# "Work it out" as an excuse to divorce



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I suspect that there are a significant amount of betrayed spouses who choose to "work it out" but their hearts and minds are really not into the hard work of marital rebuilding. They subconciously sabotage their efforts so they can say to themselves "Hey I gave it a shot, but it was not meant to be. Now I'm ready for divorce. It seems like they do it to quiet their inner voices asking them "If you divorce now you may regret it later"

Care to comment?


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## lou (Apr 22, 2011)

I wonder this about my ex too. He made no large effort to hide his secret email account and his password for it was the one he used for his regular email. I don't even think he met anyone off the sites he used. I sometimes think he sabotaged our reconciliation on purpose. When confronted he just said I deserved better. I wonder often why he wanted to R if he thought that all along and I think it was to ease his guilt too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

morituri said:


> I suspect that there are a significant amount of betrayed spouses who choose to "work it out" but their hearts and minds are really not into the hard work of marital rebuilding. They subconciously sabotage their efforts so they can say to themselves "Hey I gave it a shot, but it was not meant to be. Now I'm ready for divorce. It seems like they do it to quiet their inner voices asking them "If you divorce now you may regret it later"
> 
> Care to comment?


Exactly where I'm at, after finding out my wife left out that her E/A partner is seperated from his wife (I'm still waiting to hear from OMW) and my wife telling me they are seperated because she has BF and not because of her,and she didnt want to tell me because I would take it the wrong way (uhh yeah do ya think)....right then and there, my hope of R really took a nose dive, just kinda going thru the motions right now, trying to keep thinking with my head instead of my heart, its up to her to do any heavy lifting now, which I dont see any real effort...If I pull the plug now, would I have regrets??? if I stay will I have regrets? I guess thats the million dollar question...until I can really figure that out for myself, and I think once I find out for sure why O/M and OMW are seperated I'll know for sure what direction to go, until then I will keep on keepin on...enjoy the good times...

I look at myself now and think, whos the liar now, whos deceving who? my heart isnt into R 100% any longer.

I do know if I leave I will have a good life, I dont need anyone to make me happy, I'm comfortable with myself. I think this scares the hell out of my wife, she can see it and knows it.

A lot of folks talk about finding someone else down the road, If I
never found someone else I could be happy alone, I have a few good core friends, close with my kids and family, good job...what else do I really need?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

When I used the word "sabotage" I wasn't thinking about the emotionally detached spouse who is using his/her head to control his/her heart until the cheating spouse proves he/she can begin to be trusted. I was thinking more of the emotional time bomb who may trigger, explodes and unleashes a barrage of insults to hurt his/her spouse. In this situation it seems that there is a false R going on by the betrayed souse not the cheater spouse.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

morituri said:


> I was thinking more of the emotional time bomb who may trigger, explodes and unleashes a barrage of insults to hurt his/her spouse. In this situation it seems that there is a false R going on by the betrayed souse not the cheater spouse.


That is why I have always stated that forgiveness is the first step in the reconciliation. Without it the betrayal will only fester under the surface and the time bomb will be ever present. Understanding, self reflection and forgiveness were my first steps in recovering my marriage. With those issues behind us I could focus on what needed to take place, not what already had. Even during the tough parts of recovery I felt no need nor desire to play the "you cheating *****" card.


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## Tover26 (Oct 29, 2011)

morituri said:


> When I used the word "sabotage" I wasn't thinking about the emotionally detached spouse who is using his/her head to control his/her heart until the cheating spouse proves he/she can begin to be trusted. I was thinking more of the emotional time bomb who may trigger, explodes and unleashes a barrage of insults to hurt his/her spouse. In this situation it seems that there is a false R going on by the betrayed souse not the cheater spouse.


Once upon a time I was married and this attitude describes me perfectly. I adopted a wait and see approach and when I was met with continued contact between her and her lover, and lies, and hostile anger, I knew that my self-fulfilling attitude had self-fulfilled. Sure, she didn't want R either, but I wonder had I been more genuinely interested in it, would it have made a difference?

This time around, I asked my wife to do certain things that should be doable for her... and she wasted 3 months hiding another lover. I'm not adding more time to the decision and rather than even say, "yes, lets R" I'm saying... "When you have addressed the Lesbian/Bi, Drugs, and Master/Slave thing... THEN and ONLY THEN will I open myself up to R." Why would I want to R with an in-closet lesbian/serial cheater/fetishist?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mori--I think you are right. Some people (betrayed) do the entire "Well let me say I gave it my best shot" but really they know deep down they won't be happy again. They stay for the kids, they stay so they don't have the title of being "divorced," they stay for financial reasons, they stay out of old habits. But plenty of times, it's just them going through the motions. They know deep downit will never be the same as it was before, and it won't be better either. They will spend the rest of their days in their relationship feeling like a consolation prize and knowing they have lost the love they had for the disloyal, always feeling resentful and knowing they could have moved on and possibly found something way better.

Note I say "some," not ALL.

Because some folks do go on to reconcile and it's "better" but in a different way.

But dammit, once that exclusivity is gone (only being eachothers' only partner in ar omantic sense) let's face it: it's never the same again. 

My 2 cents.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Jellybeans said:


> Note I say "some," not ALL.


We are part of the "not all". Yes the marriage is changed forever and the vast majority of changes are positive. As I said, forgiveness for me came quickly but trust was a long process. And in all truthfulness it will never be the same as before. I've come to the conclusion that trust will be marked with a mental asterisk forever. It does not consume me, I do not "worry" that it will happen again but every once in a while some trigger will spark something in my mind and I'll realize that the trust still has some minute scars on it. 

But on the other side there is something special in the marriage that wasn't there before. We do not often discuss what happened but when we do it is with both a sense of wonder and pride that we managed to find a way back. It has brought us closer as a couple and serves to better protect us in the future because we know what can happen if we don't attend to each others' needs. Because we never shared what was going on with family or close friends, it is unique to us. It serves as our glue for we both respect each other even more, knowing we came back from what so many couples don't. It made us stronger. There is an old saying that calm waters never made a good sailor. I would say that goes for spouses too.


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

I don't think I am sabotaging our attempt at R, but I do think that as time has gone on (5 months post D-day), I am more open to leaving her than I've ever been. 

I've been in IC for a bit and we're due to start MC in January. She asked for the MC and I am all for it but, like nearly every other aspect of our relationship, I am the one who has to make the MC happen. 

Her nearly 6-year EA, combined with a PA right before our marriage, 27+ years ago, (which in my blind love and immaturity I allowed to be swept under the rug) and what I came to discover was an almost PA nearly 20 years ago (with the most recent EA OM), has given me a lot of reason to pause. Were it not for our youngest child, still in jr. high, I might well have left her in the fall.

I used to think how lucky I was to have her in my life. Then I was frustrated because no matter what I did or we did, she couldn't seem to find happiness. Now I am faced with the cold reality that after all this time together maybe we can't be happy together. 

I look at our future and fear we will slip back into old habits and resentments. I fear I will never forgive her and that my resentment will fester. I fear that though she tells me otherwise, she doesn't really love me--she is staying out of loyalty, fear of being alone, for financial reasons, or to spare our youngest the pain of a divorce. I do believe that she is as happy with me as she can be with anyone--that it is her nature to always fall victim to the glass is half-empty viewpoint. 

Now I fear that time is slipping away from me and that if I don't leave now I will never leave. Are such thoughts normal and reasonable at this stage? Should I wait and see how MC goes before making any decisions? In the meantime, should I try to banish such thoughts of "plan B" from my mind for the time being?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> We are part of the "not all". Yes the marriage is changed forever and the vast majority of changes are positive. As I said, forgiveness for me came quickly but trust was a long process. And in all truthfulness it will never be the same as before. I've come to the conclusion that trust will be marked with a mental asterisk forever. It does not consume me, I do not "worry" that it will happen again but every once in a while some trigger will spark something in my mind and I'll realize that the trust still has some minute scars on it.
> 
> But on the other side there is something special in the marriage that wasn't there before. We do not often discuss what happened but when we do it is with both a sense of wonder and pride that we managed to find a way back. It has brought us closer as a couple and serves to better protect us in the future because we know what can happen if we don't attend to each others' needs. Because we never shared what was going on with family or close friends, it is unique to us. It serves as our glue for we both respect each other even more, knowing we came back from what so many couples don't. It made us stronger. There is an old saying that calm waters never made a good sailor. I would say that goes for spouses too.


I couldn't have said it better myself. Although I'm not (don't think I am anyway) as far along in the recovery process as you, amplexor, everything you say here rings true for us


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

It doesn't help when Trickle Truth keeps coming in though. TT is the marriage killer.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> We are part of the "not all". Yes the marriage is changed forever and the vast majority of changes are positive.
> 
> There is an old saying that calm waters never made a good sailor. I would say that goes for spouses too.


I am glad it worked out for you guys, Amp


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> But dammit, once that exclusivity is gone (only being each others' only partner in a romantic sense) let's face it: it's never the same again.


Very true. The specialness of exclusivity is blown to pieces by the affair and depending on the spouses, it may never again be recreated.

As Amplexor said, forgiveness must be a pre-requisite to reconciliation. Without it, the marriage is nothing more than a walking carcass, a zombie. The problem is how do people define forgiveness? Unlike the popular concept of forgiveness, my concept of forgiveness is independent of the actions, or lack of, from the cheating spouse.



aaroncj said:


> Now I fear that time is slipping away from me and that if I don't leave now I will never leave.


Time slipping away is a fact of life, it is irrelevant whether your single, married or divorced.

Do you actually mean "Time is slipping away from me *to find another woman I can fully trust and to share my life with*?"


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Amplexor was really the first person on this board to say exactly what helped me early on in the very dark days right after DDay, and he hits it home again here.

If I met Amp in person some day I would shake his hand and buy him dinner. Mad respect.

And Hope1964 sounds right about where I am right now. Moving toward where Amp is, but not all the way there. Forgiveness came almost immediately, trust is much, much harder. I am not as worried about her as I used to be, but it's still there.

The other interesting emotion I have developed is clarity that if I just can't reach that next step of healing I could just tell her so, and end the marriage. I would just tell her I was permanently damaged, that we gave it our best to heal from it, but we should go our separate ways. I hope I never reach that conclusion, but I am at peace with the fact that it's possible. Because if I hit that point, the decision to divorce would bring me a lot of peace. 

I think I hit that stage because I healed A LOT in the first 2-3 months after DDay. People on here were astonished at how I bounced back so fast. But I haven't really progressed at all since then. I've plateaued in my recovery. Still very hopeful, though.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

The other thing I find myself doing more of, is steeling myself against failure. I have never been more motivated to work out and look more fit. Part of this is because I want to impress upon my wife that she would seriously be missing out on some improved "meat" if she got stupid and contacted the OM (and got caught). But the other, equal part, is if I don't progress further, and we end up divorcing, I want to be more "marketable" from a physical standpoint. The desire to do this has never been this strong, which is interesting, if anything.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I think for some people they are trying to inflict as much pain as humanly possible on the WS. The LS will go out and have their little revenge A and then say let's work on us. In all actuality, they sit and bide their time, letting the WS get to a point of happiness. The LS will then read some graphic remark on a forum that will trigger them and then BAM! Pull the rug right out from under the WS, knowing full well that was a real fear of the WS all along.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> I think for some people they are trying to inflict as much pain as humanly possible on the WS. The LS will go out and have their little revenge A and then say let's work on us. In all actuality, they sit and bide their time, letting the WS get to a point of happiness. The LS will then read some graphic remark on a forum that will trigger them and then BAM! Pull the rug right out from under the WS, knowing full well that was a real fear of the WS all along.


In that scenario, it would seem the prudent thing to do would be for both spouses to sit down and acknowledge that if things continue in such fashion, that the days of the marriage ending are numbered. The LS must face the fact the he/she needs help in the form of therapy to constructively deal with triggers that cause him/her to explode into an angry barrage of insults towards his/her DS. If he/she doesn't, then there is not much point in continuing to delude oneself that it is only a temporary setback and not one more heavy blow to the foundation of reconciliation.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah, I had to decide real early on that throwing what he did in his face all the time was going to cause a lot more damage. I did spend the first week or so freaking out at him - firstly to his face then, after I kicked him out, via email - but after that, while trying to figure out what I was going to do, I stopped it, even though I didn't want to. Then, when we started working on things, the need to do so wasn't there any more.

As for having a revenge affair, the thought never even crossed my mind actually.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

My wife was deathly afraid I would have a revenge A. I haven't. Nor have I come close. I would not look for a revenge A, but if one came up and slapped me across the face, I would probably be more tempted now to engage it than I was before my wife had hers. That's the God honest truth. That said, I doubt I actually would.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

To have a PA requires a lot of emotional disconnect from both spouse and lover - and reality.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> I think for some people they are trying to inflict as much pain as humanly possible on the WS. The LS will go out and have their little revenge A and then say let's work on us. In all actuality, they sit and bide their time, letting the WS get to a point of happiness. The LS will then read some graphic remark on a forum that will trigger them and then BAM! Pull the rug right out from under the WS, knowing full well that was a real fear of the WS all along.



uhhh what?


care to share?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

morituri said:


> The problem is how do people define forgiveness? Unlike the popular concept of forgiveness, my concept of forgiveness is independent of the actions, or lack of, from the cheating spouse.


If I'm reading you right M that is spot on to how forgiveness came about. For me, forgiveness came from understanding and self reflection, not my wife's actions after D-Day. They couldn't because she followed the fog script. Blame shifting, denial (both to me and herself), rationalization and using the emotional disconnect with me to protect herself. 

After the initial dust settled and I had time to really reflect on the situation it became clear to me that I was at fault for much of what had happened to the marriage. She had tried to tell me things weren't good and she wasn't happy for years. I just hadn't listened to her nor communicated to her the things that made me unhappy. I developed an understanding of where she was emotionally and my hand in putting her there. The marriage had become vulnerable to her EA because I had let it. I give her no pass for it, she knew or should have known she was walking down a dangerous path but I also accepted my own part in putting the marriage at risk in the first place. Forgiveness came from that.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Gabriel said:


> If I met Amp in person some day I would shake his hand and buy him dinner. Mad respect.


Thanks Gabriel, I like my prime rib medium rare.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> After the initial dust settled and I had time to really reflect on the situation it became clear to me that I was at fault for much of what had happened to the marriage. She had tried to tell me things weren't good and she wasn't happy for years. I just hadn't listened to her nor communicated to her the things that made me unhappy. I developed an understanding of where she was emotionally and my hand in putting her there. The marriage had become vulnerable to her EA because I had let it. I give her no pass for it, she knew or should have known she was walking down a dangerous path but I also accepted my own part in putting the marriage at risk in the first place. Forgiveness came from that.



Insert my situation in here EXACTLY. Amp, how is your R going?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> If I'm reading you right M that is spot on to how forgiveness came about.


Amp, if you are interested click on http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/30098-forever-wearing-scarlett-letter.html#post400311 for my perspective on what forgiveness means to me.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Gabriel said:


> Insert my situation in here EXACTLY. Amp, how is your R going?


We are nearly 5 years post D-Day. Reconciliation has been complete for some time now and we are doing wonderfully. Thanks for asking.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Wow, no wonder you know all.

5 years out I will have two in college, hopefully, and another turning sweet 16. Yikes.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

morituri said:


> What is forgiveness?
> 
> For a great many people, it means amnesty for the offender and of the consequences that would befall him/her. The problem with this definition is that it makes the offender the beneficiary while the offended getting nothing in return.
> 
> ...


Very well put M and yes we are on the same page about forgiveness. This applies to our situation very closely. :iagree:


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Kobe's wife waited the 10 years before she finally filed D.

She sure was working it out for those xx number of years after his affairs came out. At the 10 year mark, boom she gets 1/2 of everything, he got played and in the end, she WON.

Now that is the best revenge IMO.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ I agree


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

morituri said:


> I suspect that there are a significant amount of betrayed spouses who choose to "work it out" but their hearts and minds are really not into the hard work of marital rebuilding. They subconciously sabotage their efforts so they can say to themselves "Hey I gave it a shot, but it was not meant to be. Now I'm ready for divorce. It seems like they do it to quiet their inner voices asking them "If you divorce now you may regret it later"
> 
> Care to comment?


I am still so close to d-day that it is still raw. My WS is doing all the correct things at this point and I am going to give R a chance. I received a promotion in October (after the Affair stated) and live in another city during the week and come home on weekends. What I thought was another EA turned out to be a PA. We started to look for a second home in August (the EA started in July and turned into a PA on 9 Sept.) when we knew I would be getting a promotion. We built our current home 15 years ago and our youngest son was 10 and helped build it and wants us to keep it and will be renting it from us. Now I am on track again to buy a second home and applied for a mortgage so we have a preapproval letter when we decide to give an offer on another house.
Yesterday my WS and I were online looking at houses and the more I was looking the more pissed I was getting. I was thinking is this going to be worth it in the end. She has to sit at her computer with my one son and I am about 3 hours away. I just sucked it up. I went through an online application with our lending institution and when I got through it I told my WS that I need to talk. I had another list of questions, concerns, etc that I had written down earlier in the week and I went through it. She answered every question and concern without being defensive or argumentative. After that I felt much better and today I had a great day. She answers all my questions without hesitation and she has her perkiness back, where I can hear that she is interested in what I have to say.

Having said all that, I have started the paperwork for D and presently it is on hold. She knows that. I have been very upfront with my WS on what I have done, will do and have told her that I have peace about having a future where she is not with me. I told her as long as I am engaged with her then she can know that I am committed to working on our marriage. i have told her if I feel that I can no longer work on it I will tell her.

In the earliest stages I was ready to file for D. But my IC, my WS's brothers (who are all pastors) and my friends told me not to do anything for at least a few months. All of them tell me if I D down the road they will support my decision but wait a few months.

So at present I am in the camp of "if I D now I may regret it later". And only time will tell. I have reached a point of peace where I have imagined a life without my WS but I also have peace about staying. At present I plan to stay and try to make something positive out of this freaken mess.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What about D now and doing R later? 

What about any post-nup? Is she ready to sign one?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> What about D now and doing R later?
> 
> What about any post-nup? Is she ready to sign one?


D can wait. My IC and friends have asked me to wait a few months. No one has told me not to D (just wait) and all will support me if I do, even her three brothers who are all pastors.

She will sign the post-nup and it is in process as we speak. She will also sign over the house and the cars. She said she is willing to do anything else. 

All she asked is that if I decide to D that I give her enough time to get on her feet (financially). I said why do need to get on your feet is it because you have been on your back too long with your legs spread opened?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> All she asked is that if I decide to D that I give her enough time to get on her feet (financially). *I said why do need to get on your feet is it because you have been on your back too long with your legs spread opened?*


If this is a constant response then this is what I meant by sabotage. R becomes an exercise in futility.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

morituri said:


> If this is a constant response then this is what I meant by sabotage. R becomes an exercise in futility.


I used to hear those sort of remarks quite often.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

uote:
Originally Posted by Thorburn View Post
All she asked is that if I decide to D that I give her enough time to get on her feet (financially). I said why do need to get on your feet is it because you have been on your back too long with your legs spread opened?
If this is a constant response then this is what I meant by sabotage. R becomes an exercise in futility.

I am not sure what you mean by sabotage.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> I am not sure what you mean by sabotage.


Angry outbursts are normal soon after D-day, it is only when they become a constant, unrelenting, barrage weeks and months later that they sabotage any attempts to reconcile. The LS is not being honest with him/herself about wanting to reconcile. That is why I believe the number one priority of a LS is to heal him/herself first and that means to stop feeding the anger and bitterness he/she is experiencing.

The greatest enemies I had to conquer after my D-day were anger and bitterness. It didn't matter whether I reconciled or divorce, for if I had consciously allowed those two toxic twins to poison my heart and soul, I would not have been able to heal and move on with my life.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

morituri said:


> If this is a constant response then this is what I meant by sabotage. R becomes an exercise in futility.





morituri said:


> Angry outbursts are normal soon after D-day, it is only when they become a constant, unrelenting, barrage weeks and months later that they sabotage any attempts to reconcile. The LS is not being honest with him/herself about wanting to reconcile. That is why I believe the number one priority of a LS is to heal him/herself first and that means to stop feeding the anger and bitterness he/she is experiencing.
> 
> The greatest enemies I had to conquer after my D-day were anger and bitterness. It didn't matter whether I reconciled or divorce, for if I had consciously allowed those two toxic twins to poison my heart and soul, I would not have been able to heal and move on with my life.


Thanks. It is hard to keep what I say in precise order but the comment about her wanting time to get on her feet was on a Friday two weeks ago and I was in hyper anger mode and I was drunk. She actually took my comment in stride and said I know you are angry but I just wanted you to consider it and she asked me to come to bed. She then got up and hugged me and walked me over to the bed.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

bump


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

morituri said:


> I suspect that there are a significant amount of betrayed spouses who choose to "work it out" but their hearts and minds are really not into the hard work of marital rebuilding. They subconciously sabotage their efforts *so they can say to themselves* "Hey I gave it a shot, but it was not meant to be. Now I'm ready for divorce. It seems like they do it to quiet their inner voices asking them "If you divorce now you may regret it later"
> 
> Care to comment?


I don't think anyone chooses to R with intention to divorce "just" so they can say they gave it a shot.

I think there are those that are so devastated by their WS's actions that they desperately WANT to R, but after a while, its just too much for them.

So no, I don't think its so they can say they gave it a shot. I don't think most BSs give a crap if people see them as giving it a shot or not. 

Its about how they feel inside, not how others feel about their R efforts. And I know the bolded part says "so they can say to *themselves*". But I don't think its about that.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

I miss Morituri. He had true insight.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Some get their cheater back from the AP after being put through the ringer. The BS tries to R but has "ran out of gas" and files for D. He/She tried but it was too late.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bfree said:


> I miss Morituri. He had true insight.


The story of his wife's betrayal and how he found out still chills me.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> The story of his wife's betrayal and how he found out still chills me.


Yup, it's the stuff nightmares are made of. Talk about triggers!


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> The story of his wife's betrayal and how he found out still chills me.





bfree said:


> Yup, it's the stuff nightmares are made of. Talk about triggers!


That's one I've avoided reading for two years. Just don't wanna go there.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

It's all bad porno now.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

morituri said:


> It's all bad porno now.


Well, speak of the debil.....


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

3putt said:


> Well, speak of the *debil*...


Well speak of bad grammar


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

morituri said:


> Well speak of bad grammar


Never seen The Waterboy?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

3putt said:


> Never seen The Waterboy?


Got it. That movie is from the 90's.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

morituri said:


> I suspect that there are a significant amount of betrayed spouses who choose to "work it out" but their hearts and minds are really not into the hard work of marital rebuilding. They subconciously sabotage their efforts so they can say to themselves "Hey I gave it a shot, but it was not meant to be. Now I'm ready for divorce. It seems like they do it to quiet their inner voices asking them "If you divorce now you may regret it later"
> 
> Care to comment?


I think your comment is EXACTLY what many WS think.

Fact is every situation is different, BUT for me, I think the situation is most commonly very different to that described above.

I think that in the majority of time, the WS has NO IDEA how much pain they have caused and how they even begin to fix it. 

In fact I would go as far as saying that the VAST majority of cheaters deep down have no real intention of R in the first place because they are in an emotional fog of love for another person. And as a result have no interest in learning about how their BS feels and how to begin R with them. I feel that most sit idly by waiting for their BS to get frustrated and leave them so that they don't feel the additional guilt of actually leaving the relationship (f*cking gutless in my opinion).

Well, that's my experience anyway and in my opinion of what happens the majority of the time when people cheat.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Thorburn said:


> I am still so close to d-day that it is still raw. My WS is doing all the correct things at this point and I am going to give R a chance. I received a promotion in October (after the Affair stated) and live in another city during the week and come home on weekends. What I thought was another EA turned out to be a PA. We started to look for a second home in August (the EA started in July and turned into a PA on 9 Sept.) when we knew I would be getting a promotion. We built our current home 15 years ago and our youngest son was 10 and helped build it and wants us to keep it and will be renting it from us. Now I am on track again to buy a second home and applied for a mortgage so we have a preapproval letter when we decide to give an offer on another house.
> Yesterday my WS and I were online looking at houses and the more I was looking the more pissed I was getting. I was thinking is this going to be worth it in the end. She has to sit at her computer with my one son and I am about 3 hours away. I just sucked it up. I went through an online application with our lending institution and when I got through it I told my WS that I need to talk. I had another list of questions, concerns, etc that I had written down earlier in the week and I went through it. She answered every question and concern without being defensive or argumentative. After that I felt much better and today I had a great day. She answers all my questions without hesitation and she has her perkiness back, where I can hear that she is interested in what I have to say.
> 
> Having said all that, I have started the paperwork for D and presently it is on hold. She knows that. I have been very upfront with my WS on what I have done, will do and have told her that I have peace about having a future where she is not with me. I told her as long as I am engaged with her then she can know that I am committed to working on our marriage. i have told her if I feel that I can no longer work on it I will tell her.
> ...


Are you sure PROMOTION and R aren't the same thing for your WS? Some are that shallow.

I'd be very careful going back.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

morituri said:


> If this is a constant response then this is what I meant by sabotage. R becomes an exercise in futility.


Cut the guy some slack... I mean...... sheesh.

I can't see how any WS could expect a composed and faultless BS. I hear what you saying but get real.

Guess what - that's what they have to deal with. That or f*cking leave.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

vellocet said:


> I don't think anyone chooses to R with intention to divorce "just" so they can say they gave it a shot.
> 
> I think there are those that are so devastated by their WS's actions that they desperately WANT to R, but after a while, its just too much for them.
> 
> ...


Exactly, WHY after being totally screwed over would you go back for more pain and suffering. It's just not a natural reaction.

If a BS is trying to R, they are working bloody hard to do so, an in a genuine way.

A WS is far more likely to do false R so they don't feel additional guilt. It's just natural.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> The story of his wife's betrayal and how he found out still chills me.





bfree said:


> Yup, it's the stuff nightmares are made of. Talk about triggers!





3putt said:


> That's one I've avoided reading for two years. Just don't wanna go there.


Which thread is this? He has quite a few, and I've never been able to locate the correct one.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

morituri said:


> It's all bad porno now.


Holy. Shiitake. Mushrooms.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

poida said:


> Are you sure PROMOTION and R aren't the same thing for your WS? Some are that shallow.
> 
> I'd be very careful going back.


Just so you know, this thread is a little over 3 years old, as is the post to which you replied.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Just so you know, this thread is a little over 3 years old, as is the post to which you replied.


So am I, the OP


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

morituri said:


> So am I, the OP


No, I get that. It's just that, since posting the reply that poida quoted above, Thorburn has decided to fully commit to the reconciliation of his marriage.

I probably should've mentioned that.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

3putt said:


> That's one I've avoided reading for two years. Just don't wanna go there.


No....you really don't.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Which thread is this? He has quite a few, and I've never been able to locate the correct one.


Don't. You really don't want to.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

morituri said:


> It's all bad porno now.


MORI!!!!!:allhail:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Which thread is this? He has quite a few, and I've never been able to locate the correct one.


There is no "my story" thread in which I told my story. It is in some of the posts I made to other people's threads.

My story is very similar to KingwoodKev's only somewhat more gory. So beware and read at your own risk.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

OMG I found it! Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go puke my brains out.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dogbert said:


> OMG I found it! Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go puke my brains out.


Which thread is it on? I didn't get much sleep and need a good horror story to keep me up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Miss you, Mori. 

Why was this thread bumped after being dead so many years?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

poida said:


> Exactly, WHY after being totally screwed over would you go back for more pain and suffering. It's just not a natural reaction.
> 
> If a BS is trying to R, they are working bloody hard to do so, an in a genuine way.
> 
> A WS is far more likely to do false R so they don't feel additional guilt. It's just natural.


Precisely. Also, IMO, the BS doesn't need to say to themselves "at least I tried" since the burden at that point of the family being destroyed isn't on them.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

morituri said:


> I suspect that there are a significant amount of betrayed spouses who choose to "work it out" but their hearts and minds are really not into the hard work of marital rebuilding. They subconciously sabotage their efforts so they can say to themselves "Hey I gave it a shot, but it was not meant to be. Now I'm ready for divorce. It seems like they do it to quiet their inner voices asking them "If you divorce now you may regret it later"
> 
> Care to comment?


Disagree. It’s a process. As long as the WS still breathes in those early phases, you can’t sabotage a R. You can be as nasty as you want… Here’s a secret: They lacked the ability to divorce you in the first place otherwise it wouldn’t be infidelity and instead would just be them, recently single, out banging headboards. Infidelity is cowardice; they lack that moral fiber to address the issues with you. Getting some strange outside the marriage is hardly going to help build that character… they will fear you now that they are discovered much more than before. 

Don’t believe me? Even the ones who boot their ex’s right out the door, scream and yell at them often will say that at some point down the road, they tried to come back. That’s common as long as you weren't an arse to start with. 

If they run, which some do, it has more to do with their own ‘flee’ response of facing ramifications than it does with you chasing them off. To be honest, you don’t want someone like that… they will cheat again every time they feel something is wrong in the marriage because it is in their nature to avoid facing consequences, conflict, or having to change. They just pretend they are strong when the reality is they fear ramifications and bluster & bully to get you to back down.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Oh, should add that after that “who, what, when, where, why” discovery and understanding phase, there is this self-reflection stage you have of “what do I want?” You think hard and realistically about marriage when the fantasy Santa Claus ideal version has been shattered. What was once tolerable or acceptable just no longer is worth it. 

Add to it that during the initial stages of a true reconciliation, your wayward is going above and beyond to try to heal those wounds. At some point, usually when they feel the marriage is once again secure, they revert like they did their time, paid the price, etc. So the nice stuff stops becoming common and the marriage starts feeling a lot like it did before. That is not a comforting or secure feeling for a BS because they know how that played out before. That brings anxiety, insecurity, etc. which does affect your demeanor. If the WS can’t understand why and make corrections to help you, but instead gets defensive… it also dooms the reconciliation. And if it does feel like ‘before’ you might just cut bait because you aren’t going to waste your life repeating the same hurts. A wayward and the relationship must truly change and have a much deeper understanding…. It’s sort of why those who have successfully reconciled sort of see it as a new relationship and the old one died. This new relationship can’t be like the old one.

There are so many things that can destroy a reconciliation. Hence the very slim success rate which I think was around 10% for recovering from infidelity AND being happily married. (there are those who stay for other reasons, but that is not a successful R as much as it is survival and ‘making the best’ of the situation…. That’s my lot.).


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Dogbert said:


> OMG I found it! Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go puke my brains out.


Link Please?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Amplexor said:


> That is why I have always stated that forgiveness is the first step in the reconciliation. Without it the betrayal will only fester under the surface and the time bomb will be ever present. Understanding, self reflection and forgiveness were my first steps in recovering my marriage. With those issues behind us I could focus on what needed to take place, not what already had. Even during the tough parts of recovery I felt no need nor desire to play the "you cheating *****" card.


So true,

Ok, then call it a false forgiveness. Filed under the attempt to R and subconsciously want it to fail. 

There is a component of going through the motions for sure. Not everyone can do R. It takes something special out of the BS and WS for sure.

Cheaters are liars. Trust becomes history. Fear of the Charlie Brown kick the football thing..


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

This is actually an excellent question.
Since I am a BS, I think I can answer some of it.

We never got to the R part. 
That was the problem.

Every time I wasn’t acting exactly how she wanted me to, she would dangle R in front of me. Then find an excuse to take it away. It could be things as simple as not wanting to give her one of my favorite tools to not taking responsibility for herniating a lumbar disk by kicking me out of bed…she got the jump on me.

“I gave it my best try” was something that I want to be able to say, but I know my childhood and the power of recreating your past life in order to resolve it.
That being said, the similarities between my parents’ divorce and mine were…eerie. 
Actually, to be honest, the similarity between my ex and my mother is downright scary.
( Yes, for all intents and purposes I married my mother.)

Now for the sabotage part…
Well I know myself well enough to know that after a certain amount of bait and switch from the ex, probably about 4 months’ worth, I was certainly getting tired of it.
The final straw was when she filed for divorce and didn’t tell me even though this was supposed to be a trial separation.

It was then that I took a FWB to console myself. 
I’m a physical touch love person and I needed some comfort.
I kept it under wraps and only one other person knew.
What I didn’t know was that she had access to my Facebook by virtue of us swapping IPod. 
She was able to use my settings I had accidently left on it and read all my private conversations between me and my best friend.

Now the question is….was that self-sabotage?
It could be.
I’m not saying that I did it, but I am willing to admit that I could easily see a piece of my subconscious doing it.
Several months of continual torture. She announced on Feb 11 and then couldn’t move out until May. All the while she did the “let’s do date night thing.” We would go out. She would post on FB that she had a wonderful husband and then proceed to get into fights with me later.

When she finally moved out I felt a sense of relief.
Like I had been holding my breath for months.

Then the summer came complete with her dating and telling me I should and having a guy over less than a few weeks after getting her new place.
But I held true.
I did a sort of version of the 180 because I didn’t know about it beforehand, but what I did “seemed right”.
After she filed…well I was VERY hurt and I can’t say if I purposely did it or not, but my actions in the next few weeks didn’t exactly say “Hey Lets reconcile”.
I was dark.

So did I?
She and I were of the mind that we were scratching each other and if reconciliation was on the table, she would go.
As far as I thought, it was a solid distraction to keep me from engaging the ex, even more, and to give me some relief.
But if I look VERY deeply, there is a piece of me that sort of knew it was not going to work, but that piece wasn’t very accessible then.
I mean…she filed to surprise me and hurt me.
It wasn’t until after she did that, that I even considered any other company.

But can a man be given such inconsistent and blamer shifting and NOT do something? Even if he is blatantly infected with Walking Disney?
I wonder if maybe something in me didn’t just say “Screw it! I can’t live like this anymore!”?

So maybe there is something deep down that might sabotage the R.
Maybe the hurt is just too much to recover from?
Or maybe there is a sense of relief or merely finality?

If I had to guess, I would say there was a piece of me AT THAT TIME, that knew it was truly over and that hurt like that cannot be endured. 
My heart knew it was over, but my stubborn pride and honor refused to let go.
That piece was small and meek at that point…less than 5%.

In the end it would prove to be the most honest piece of me and I have since learned to nurture that piece.
I cant say for certain that I was capable of sabotaging it…but I can confirm the possibility of the events falling into place that would have solidified my resolve.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Miss you, Mori.
> 
> Why was this thread bumped after being dead so many years?


Homer Simpson moment on my part. I tried to bump "Just Let Them Go" and bumped this one instead.

Found the gory story here, *Read*


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Miss you, Mori.
> 
> Why was this thread bumped after being dead so many years?


I missed you to jelly, my virtual adopted daughter - still can't claim you in my tax returns though. 

Ask dogbert. I was lurking and said wtf?


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Q tip said:


> So true,
> 
> Ok, then call it a false forgiveness. Filed under the attempt to R and subconsciously want it to fail.
> 
> ...


WRONG!

The first step is for the WS to ASK FOR FORGIVENESS.

Mine didn't even get that far and I still tried to make it work.... What an idiot.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dogbert said:


> Homer Simpson moment on my part. I tried to bump "Just Let Them Go" and bumped this one instead.
> 
> Found the gory story here, *Read*


Thanks Dog!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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