# Betrayed Husband, what can I do now..



## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

My wife had EA with a close friend for 2 years. We're married for 12 years and have two kids. They were ready to get married but things crumbled and now they went from lovers to friends..

Reading various articles in this forum, i understand that below statement fits exactly her personality.

she was not ready to move out of house, so I moved. My kids are with her. I'm following 180 but currently she doesn't want me to go out with my friends or female friends and because of this we had big fight and police came to our home. Because of constant fight, I've decided to move out and even though, she send me email and text. I'm not replying. I know she is still in touch with OM.

Reading and find more about her, I was able to know that she is a narcissistic, as I found that narcissistic people of 3 stages and the moment she found new supply, I was in the last discarded stage.

Knowing her personality and knowing that she cheated, could you share your experience and guide me.


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm a betrayed husband too. When was her EA? Are you 100% certian it was only a EA. Tell us more about her affair, how you found out and what is her level of remorse.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

test


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Looks like my situation is different that maybe the reason no one replied. But here is what I've decided to do:

1. I've decided to get back home and take care of myself and kids. I would like to involve more with the kids activities.

2. I've decided to file for divorce.

3. I would like to go for sole custody of the kids.

Can anyone let me know the issues I've to take care for getting sole custody of kids??

-J


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

John2012 said:


> Looks like my situation is different that maybe the reason no one replied. But here is what I've decided to do:
> 
> 1. I've decided to get back home and take care of myself and kids. I would like to involve more with the kids activities.
> 
> ...


Hi John2012. I'm so sorry that you find yourself here, but you will get plenty of good, solid advise from the people here. I too married a narcissist who cheated. And, since my WS refused to leave the marital home, I moved out, since in my State one has to be separated (living apart) before filing.

Yes, first off, *move back into the marital home.* Definitely. If she wants to leave, let her. You stay in the home with the children. This would be key to you getting custody, as by living in the marital home with the children, you are not disrupting their lives.

After you have moved back in, see a lawyer and get advise as to what needs to be done in your State, as State laws may vary.

ETA: My children are grown, so the custody issue did not factor into my decision to move out of my home.


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## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

John it depends on where you live, but sole custody is hard if the mother is not in jail or hospitalized for mental instability. Talk with a lawyer as soon as possible.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

I can't leave my kids with my wife. As told already my wife is narcissistic and my son who is just 8 years is already turning into one. I'm very worried..I need sole custody.

Except of cooking my wife is not involved in any other school or kids activities, including hospital visitation. How that is going to benefit me..


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you exposed the affair to friends and family?

I'm confused by your post - they were getting engaged?

Is the OM and you wife sleeping together currently? Were they having sex?


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

No remorse = still in contact with OM(other man). I assume you know this right?

Definitely get back in the house. Getting sole custody will be nearly impossible, but you will get an attorney and he will advise on that.

No more police at your home because of fighting, that's NOT good for custody battles. Keep your cool at all times, take a walk if things get heated, but don't fight until the cops come.

Are you still doing the 180?
Are you back home now?


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Shaggy, 

They've not slept together and there is no sex but deep EA. I'm working on moving back home and she is moving out.

Yes, she is still in touch with OM and that OM is married. Looking into their messages, it looks like they would like to convert their love into marriage which is difficult to happen as the OM has 2 kids and his wife is fighting like anything.

I've exposed to friends and families but as once again I'm saying she is narcissistic and she is very capable of manipulating the people with her charm. The OM wants to back off almost 3-4 times but she pulled him.

I would like to get divorce and move forward.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

My WS says, "Don't ask me too many questions...What does "Don't ask me too many questions" infer??

I'm trying to understand cheater's languages..please throw some light on this..


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> What does "Don't ask me too many questions" infer??


= Mind your bussiness. It's MY life. Get over it. Don't bother me.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Have you done the financials yet? Isolate your money from her money.

Check the credit cards. Run her credit check to see if there are credit cards you don't recognize.

Check your bank records for large withdrawals.

Whose name is the phone under? Who has title to the cars? Whose name is the insurance under?

IF you are interested in a wake up call, when she leaves, you cancel the cc's her phone and her insurance, including health, (your) life insurance to her, and auto.

"Don't ask too many questions." is cheater for 'Mind your own business.' It's probably also cheater for '...because I ****ed around on you too."

What 'Mind your own business' means is 'You aren't my business any more. Settle your own shyte."


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

John2012 said:


> I'm working on moving back home


In other words, you're dragging your feet.

Moving out was your biggest mistake, not moving back immediately is a close second. 

Pack your bags and go home.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

A lot of people have narcissistic tendencies, and a lot of other disorders and emotional states of mind can be mistaken for what you are calling narcissistic personality disorder. She is obviously quite damaged and has any number of psychological problems, do you know for a fact that she has NPD? Has she been professionally diagnosed with this disorder?


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## StagesOfGrief (Aug 19, 2012)

Not trying to push but how are you sure that it hasnt gone physical? Most people don't buy a car before they take it for a test drive. 

You will get through this, just get home, get back in your house.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> A lot of people have narcissistic tendencies, and a lot of other disorders and emotional states of mind can be mistaken for what you are calling narcissistic personality disorder. She is obviously quite damaged and has any number of psychological problems, do you know for a fact that she has NPD? Has she been professionally diagnosed with this disorder?


I'm very sure she is NPD, the reason I feel is that the way she treated me the moment she found a new narcissistic supply. We've been married for 12 years, with 2 kids and within no time she was treating me as if I'm not related to her and I was thoroughly isolated from my family/friends. Talking to my relatives they told me that she is a attention seeker and zero empathy. I started searching for answers and then I found that these are the characteristic of NPD. And I was very close to commit suicide but somehow I avoided. Since I'm staying away from her, I'm at peace of mind. Trust me, I never had such a great mind/body past 10-12 years....She is not interested in going for professional diagnosed because she knows what she is..

During the initial phase of marriage, she always use to tell me not to abandon her. I was surprised by that statement. Now I know why. 

In current situation, she calls this as love but not affair or cheating. And I also know that the intensity of this affair is too high. All these point to NPD.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

StagesOfGrief said:


> Not trying to push but how are you sure that it hasnt gone physical? Most people don't buy a car before they take it for a test drive.
> 
> You will get through this, just get home, get back in your house.


Honestly I don't know and I don't know how to verify. I talked to the OM's wife, she says her husband got caught in this affair and she also has no idea what might have happened !!!


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> In other words, you're dragging your feet.
> 
> Moving out was your biggest mistake, not moving back immediately is a close second.
> 
> Pack your bags and go home.


I'm not dragging my feet. Yesterday one of our friend came to me and told me that she is ready to move out. And I can move in and live with kids. My wife was not ready to move out, I talked to the attorney before moving out, he said that to avoid daily fights/arguments, we can live separately. 

Honestly it is easy said then done. I took me almost 4-5 weeks to decide whether I should move out or not. If I stayed at home, I was a doormat controlled by an NPD spouse.

I'm angry on myself for getting married to this type of personality. I'm wasting so much of wonderful time tracking/finding my ways/worrying about kids etc etc etc..

But you all are wonderful people, thanks..


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

JCD said:


> Have you done the financials yet? Isolate your money from her money.
> 
> Check the credit cards. Run her credit check to see if there are credit cards you don't recognize.
> 
> ...


I separated the finance, all CC are cancelled. She is in huge debt and she thought OM will help but he is not helping her financially. She works, so health ins for the family is through her. We've two cars, both the cars are bank loan and are in my name. She is using one but she is paying the loan as well as car insurance. We separated our mobile phone account.

Normally what will wake up a WS spouse?? She works, so financial she is fine. She has support of friends and OM and they're helping her with kids. She finds it difficult to manage the house but she is finding ways out for that...in short, she doesn't need me, so why bother me, is my guess correct??


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Document everything in regards to the children when she screws up. You may not get it but fight for primary custody. At least your children will know that you tried.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Document everything in regards to the children when she screws up. You may not get it but fight for primary custody. At least your children will know that you tried.


Thanks, what do you mean by document, shall I take live video recording or call police? Please give me some hint on how to document. I'm in the process of doing that. Will all the chat message printout helpful?


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

I just worry that she will file for custody and since she is in the home, with the kids she could get it! Would she do this?

To me, you really need to be in the house doing the 180, no arguing, no fighting etc. 

But....Overall it sounds like you are doing things right...this is just a very tough and sticky situation, sorry your going through this.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

betrayed1 said:


> I just worry that she will file for custody and since she is in the home, with the kids she could get it! Would she do this?
> 
> To me, you really need to be in the house doing the 180, no arguing, no fighting etc.
> 
> But....Overall it sounds like you are doing things right...this is just a very tough and sticky situation, sorry your going through this.


She will not fight for custody since she still believes that we can be together with this OM still in the picture and me being a doormat. I'm working on moving back home but I want her & friends to know that I'm doing her a favor by moving back.

How come she will get the custody just by staying at home?? And I'll not get the custody if she leaves and I stay home with the kids?? Is it easy for mother to get custody then father??

I'm doing 180 but she wants to control me and not allowing me to do 180. I made new friends and she is trying to find who these new friends and trying to cut me off. I'm in a hell !!! Currently I just have 2 friends and I've hidden their details from her. Doing 180 after being isolated/controlled for such a long time is so challenging.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

John2012 said:


> She will not fight for custody since she still believes that we can be together with this OM still in the picture and me being a doormat. I'm working on moving back home but I want her & friends to know that I'm doing her a favor by moving back.
> 
> How come she will get the custody just by staying at home?? And I'll not get the custody if she leaves and I stay home with the kids?? Is it easy for mother to get custody then father??
> 
> I'm doing 180 but she wants to control me and not allowing me to do 180. I made new friends and she is trying to find who these new friends and trying to cut me off. I'm in a hell !!! Currently I just have 2 friends and I've hidden their details from her. Doing 180 after being isolated/controlled for such a long time is so challenging.


Usually, the parent that remains in the marital home gets physical custody of the children. The primary reason is so that the children's lives are not disrupted. So, for you to have a chance of custody, you need to be in the house - for the children's sake.

Having said that, the next step would be for HER to move out. The 180 (ignoring her, working on yourself) will be helpful. She can talk to you about the children, but nothing else should interest you (the 180). You have the freedom to leave the home for an evening, visit your friends, and owe her no explanation. She can contact you by phone, but only if the subject matter is the children, and also assuming the information can't wait.

She doesn't get to decide whether you do the 180. Just do it. Ignore her. Focus on yourself and the children.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

John2012 said:


> I talked to the attorney before moving out, he said that to avoid daily fights/arguments, we can live separately.
> 
> Honestly it is easy said then done. I took me almost 4-5 weeks to decide whether I should move out or not. If I stayed at home, I was a doormat controlled by an NPD spouse.


You can live home and avoid daily fights/arguments and being a doormat by not engaging her.

You're almost guaranteeing she'll get custody, at the very least she's got a big edge in negotiating for divorce terms. If and when she speaks to an attorney she'll be advised to stay put.

Get your A$$ back home and just ignore her.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> You can live home and avoid daily fights/arguments and being a doormat by not engaging her.
> 
> You're almost guaranteeing she'll get custody, at the very least she's got a big edge in negotiating for divorce terms. If and when she speaks to an attorney she'll be advised to stay put.
> 
> Get your A$$ back home and just ignore her.


Thanks, I'm working on moving back..


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Just do some research John. Someone that has a personality disorder is not hard to understand nor manipulate. She has very specific needs, as a person with NPD, those needs trump everything else... 

I will not suggest nor endorse anything but I will tell you two things... 

One is she does indeed have an acute NPD, that is legal grounds for you to leverage regarding custody... 

Two... One of the primary characteristics of someone with NPD is that they are prone to fits of uncontrollable rage that can be triggered (though its not recommended) quite easily... 

If someone were so inclined, they could also leverage one of these fits into proving that someone was a danger and perhaps unfit to have primary custody... 

Again, I stress... I don't advise anything, Im simply telling you what random thoughts would pass my mind if I were in your sitution. But, I don't play fair. 

Regardless of what you do, the advice you have gotten from several other people is very effective when dealing with Narc's. Ignore them. Completely. Be aware, her actions will escalate in order to get your attention. She needs it. In her mind, she is the star of this movie.. She will not be ignored easily.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Just do some research John. Someone that has a personality disorder is not hard to understand nor manipulate. She has very specific needs, as a person with NPD, those needs trump everything else...
> 
> I will not suggest nor endorse anything but I will tell you two things...
> 
> ...


This statement is very true:

"Two... One of the primary characteristics of someone with NPD is that they are prone to fits of uncontrollable rage that can be triggered (though its not recommended) quite easily..."

During argument or fight the more I stay calm/quite the more uncontrollable rage she will show. During one of the argument which went uncontrollable, she bite my arm and she took a knife and was showing me that she will commit suicide and then she spit on me. After that I ran out to go somewhere, she came running towards me and started banging the car hood. Please remember during all these times, I was just calm/quite, not doing anything, I was in shock to do anything. Then police came and we just told the police that it was just normal argument. I never knew at that time to open up to police, my big-mistake...I feel very bad..


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Just do some research John. Someone that has a personality disorder is not hard to understand nor manipulate. She has very specific needs, as a person with NPD, those needs trump everything else...
> 
> I will not suggest nor endorse anything but I will tell you two things...
> 
> ...


wow..you're a specialist in dealing with Narc's. I'm reading your comment almost 10 times. I re-read it again and again and I understand more about my wife's nature. 

All the statement which you made fits exactly into what my wife is..In fact, her actions has escalated just past couple of days. In one of her chatting message, I found that she is telling the OM, "I don't have any control over him (ie me) as he (ie; I'm) is not talking". Yes, I stopped talking and that is creating problem for her. Now she is doing a lot of other stuff to get my attention but I'm running away from her.

Another interesting fact which I know is that she doesn't want divorce and even if divorce happens, she can't imagine that I can re-marry. These things surprise me !!! That is the reason I've to do many things in secrecy. 

As I'm writing this, I got her phone call..I'm not lifting the phone. She can email me..the moment I talk to her, she will manipulate me and drain my energy!!!

I don't know how to handle Narc's, I can handle my boss better than my Narc wife !!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

See a lawyer ASAP. And counselling for you might help you get through this horrible situation.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> See a lawyer ASAP. And counselling for you might help you get through this horrible situation.


I'm in touch with a lawyer but this lawyer is either incompetent or just lazy. Any idea how to select a lawyer?? What will motivate a lawyer to take up a case like this?? Do anyone of you have any recommendations of lawyers in boston, ma area who knows how to take up a Narc's spouse divorce case?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

someone else posted this: Lawyer & Attorney Ratings : Find Rated Lawyers & Attorneys at Super Lawyers


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

John2012 said:


> I'm in touch with a lawyer but this lawyer is either incompetent or just lazy.


That seems to be the rule rather than the exception. I used several attorneys during my divorce and there were numerous mistakes, failure to return calls, lack of prepardness and proper research and IMHO just plain incompetence.

You'd think for $400 per hour they'd roll out the red carpet.

It appears that by selecting an attorney who is a member of the American Matrimonial Association you can skim most of the worst off of the pile.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

I've decided to the following:

1. I'm getting a VAR, any recommendation of which VAR will work best for this situation.

2. I'm planning on writing a journal with all the day-to-day activities of my wife and kids without any feelings.

3. I've all the emails where my wife says that this is love not affair and she is no more my wife. Can these emails be used as evidence of acute NPD for sole custody?

BTW, knowing that my wife has acute NPD, can anyone throw some light how this drama will end. Any guess is fine. I'm getting more curious about the way my wife is behaving.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

If the acute NPD was diagnosed by a medical doctor then that diagnosis should be part of the divorce proceeding. The NPD should help you get better custody of your kids.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

aug said:


> If the acute NPD was diagnosed by a medical doctor then that diagnosis should be part of the divorce proceeding. The NPD should help you get better custody of your kids.


During this recent episode I know that she has acute NPD, so how can I take her to doctor now? BTW, why any NPD patient will directly go to a doctor, they would like to hide their personality disorder, am I correct?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

You should know that the common 'foggy' behaviors that a wayward spouse exhibits mirror the characteristics of someone with a NPD. 

How much of what she's doing can be attributed to a real psychological disorder and how much of this is common addictive behaviors most waywards show (triggered by excess dopamine production/stimulation (affair))... Hard to tell. 

Just food for thought.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You should know that the common 'foggy' behaviors that a wayward spouse exhibits mirror the characteristics of someone with a NPD.
> 
> How much of what she's doing can be attributed to a real psychological disorder and how much of this is common addictive behaviors most waywards show (triggered by excess dopamine production/stimulation (affair))... Hard to tell.
> 
> Just food for thought.


I can tell you with my living with her past 12 years that she is always a attention seeker and I know that if she wants something, she will do anything to get it. And I also know she is a manipulator and very charming lady. She will change her tone/talk based on situation. She knows that I'll always come back to her like a puppy if she wants too. She is very jealous of other women or jealous if someone has more material things in life. I'm very tried of buying her all the luxurious of life. She loves fantasy la la land and always want to fall in-love...

What I learned recently is her zero empathy and they way she discarded me. She openly talked to the OMW about what she feels about OM and in front of me. She has very little understanding of boundaries. And she is using kids as pawn, that is the painful part. And now she started making me look bad person in front of everyone and she is never a bad person. These point to NPD. 

And I'm dead sure these are not common addictive behaviors most waywards.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Below is the content I copied from another thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/50200-my-story-sad-but-true-29.html

And my story is exactly same and my worry is how to handle the situation once the OM runs.

-J


"Your situation is heart breaking, your wife seems to have a serious emotional disorder (Borderline Personality Traits/ Disorder); and worst of all she refuses treatment. 

Many get caught up in relationships with women who have borderline personalities. When in love the affection and passion is incredible: but when the honeymoon period ends,the anger and hatred is equally intense. 

Be very cautious and try to avoid fighting with her; this is what she wants, but she will not consider the consequences and the outcome will be bad for everyone. Also keep in mind that you don't know what she is telling others about you, so be very careful. Keep documenting and get witnesses about what is going on. 

Since the school year has just started you may also want to speak with your children's teachers or a counselor at the school so they can look out for how your children are coping. Also this lets you start with a clear record of what is going on before your wife gives them her spin. Since she is preoccupied with her boyfriend and may not think of this as a means to attack you.

Talking with the BF has benefits and risk. Since you don't know what he is told it may be a good opportunity to set the record straight and the last thing that you and your children need is more confrontation. He is probably more rational than your wife so it may calm the situation, but if he realizes what your wife is like he may run before your divorce and those with borderline personalities are greatly agitated by abandonment. Also it may be hard to predict how your wife would respond to finding you that you have spoken with her BF.

Here are some Internet sites that may help:
NIMH · What are the symptoms of borderline personality disorder?
Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners
Helping Families with Borderline Personality and Bipolar Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder Internet Resources

Here are some books that may help:
1. Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder, How to Keep Out-of-Control Emotions from Destroying Your Relationship
BOOK REVIEW: Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder- Shari Y. Manning, PhD
2. Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder 
Amazon.com: Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder (9781608820252): Randi Kreger, Bill Eddy LCSW JD: Books"


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Those books sound like great advice for you. Now, follow through.


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## dblkman (Jul 14, 2010)

my wife attorney had her ex subjected to a psych evaluation during the custody hearing. the judge ruled there was enough evidence to force him to get evaluated. In the end it did not work out but fact is your attorney can petition the court to get a psych eval.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

dblkman said:


> my wife attorney had her ex subjected to a psych evaluation during the custody hearing. the judge ruled there was enough evidence to force him to get evaluated. In the end it did not work out but fact is your attorney can petition the court to get a psych eval.


That's good to know..thx.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Can anyone please teach me what is meant by below statement:

"The idea is for you to take control and take the power away from her. To turn it around on her."

What is all this control about, can you give me some examples?? I thought in marriage it's always about having a family together not about control !!! Too many things to learn..


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

John2012 said:


> What is all this control about, can you give me some examples?? I thought in marriage it's always about having a family together not about control !!! Too many things to learn..


In an ideal marriage, sure. But your wife is like the wild horse running in the field and refusing to come back to the barn. Someone's gotta hop on her back and break that spirit, and you're the best man for the job, even if she doesn't think so. 

Metaphorically speaking of course.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

How difficult is to get divorce if WS is not ready to give divorce and what are the complications I can expect.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

John2012 said:


> How difficult is to get divorce if WS is not ready to give divorce and what are the complications I can expect.


Depends on where you live. 

Most lawyers will give an initial consultation to answer your questions.

If you live where there is a free legal aid office go there first. 

By the way - a WS does not have the ability to "give" a divorce. They can agree or they can fight the settlement issues, but they cannot stop the divorce.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

tdwal said:


> You can still get the divorce. Not really any complications. Talk to a lawyer.


Thanks to both of you.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

John: I don't want to stir the pot but...You might want to take a quick look at Asberger's Syndrome. The symptoms, lack of empathy, self centered behaviour and no understanding of how what she is doing, if you throw is an unpredictable sex drive you could have asbergers (as opposed to A**hole sydrome). Especially that she can talk to the OMW's wife about how she feels for her (OM) husband. She would also have difficulty reading faces and emotions in her children and what they need. It is very difficult for Asbergers to get married and even harder to stay married. I kind of know because I am Asberger's myself and how difficult it has been being married to me.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

John2012 said:


> Can anyone please teach me what is meant by below statement:
> 
> "The idea is for you to take control and take the power away from her. To turn it around on her."
> 
> What is all this control about, can you give me some examples?? I thought in marriage it's always about having a family together not about control !!! Too many things to learn..


Do you watch Star Trek?

Who tells the ship which direction to go? the ensign? the first officer or the captain? It's the captain of course.

The idea of control is to be the captain. You choose the course. You can ask others which course they recommend, but the choice is yours.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Do you watch Star Trek?
> 
> Who tells the ship which direction to go? the ensign? the first officer or the captain? It's the captain of course.
> 
> The idea of control is to be the captain. You choose the course. You can ask others which course they recommend, but the choice is yours.


Thanks again. I got the best example is from my Mom. BTW, my Mom is uneducated lady and but she has wonderful knowledge about WS. She told me that if WS send you an email, then you've two choice, either to respond to that email or not. By responding, you're giving control to WS and by not responding you're having control.

So I'm slowly learning that each and every situation which happens at home, I've to think from two directions, either WS is controlling or BS is controlling. And I'm understanding that situations like 180 is for BS to get upper hand. 

BTW, why WS uses kids as pawn, I don't understand. When WS knows that they're deep down the **** then why are they still hanging to the BS !!!


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

John2012, you never should be the one to leave your home if you are the betrayed, until some idiot judge gives her the keys.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Because not all WW are sorry. 
And they are willing to fight dirty to get whatever they need. And if using the kids is what they have to do, they'll do it. 
My dad did it to me. I just took the most neutral stance I could, but it took a toll on me. 
Here is a hint though: the older the kids are, the more they can see the situation for what it is. And they will grow VERY resentful of the parent that puts them in that position, while trying to latch onto the parent that didn't put them in that position. 

Guess which you want to be?

As for the 180, there are a few reasons behind it. 
First off, is to make the WS realize what they will be losing. And it usually works, unless the WS is so deep in the fog, that they won't realize how bad it is, until they find themselves looking for some place to stay since the BS kicked them out, and the OM/OW doesn't want them. 
Second, it helps you disconnect from the marriage. You are preparing yourself for divorce, so you'll be ready for it. That way, when you are living alone, you have been preparing for it! So it doesn't hurt you that badly, but it still does hurt. But how much worse does it hurt your WS? TONS!


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Juicer said:


> Because not all WW are sorry.
> And they are willing to fight dirty to get whatever they need. And if using the kids is what they have to do, they'll do it.
> My dad did it to me. I just took the most neutral stance I could, but it took a toll on me.
> Here is a hint though: the older the kids are, the more they can see the situation for what it is. And they will grow VERY resentful of the parent that puts them in that position, while trying to latch onto the parent that didn't put them in that position.
> ...


Thanks again. You all are wonderful people. I think every married couple and would-be WS should go through this forum. Honestly after reading about all the different situation in this forum, I won't dare to get into any EA/PA...I don't even know whether I'll ever get married..Even if I get married, I'll show this forum to my spouse !!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

@Juicer,
First reason and arguably the only reason for the 180 is for you and prepare/protect you.

Second reseason and again aguably not ment to get WW back, is to show WW consequences.
As I dig your reply I just wanted to make these small adjustments with regards to the 1st and 2nd reasons on why the 180 is the sh!t when it come to screwed up chicks that mess around on us.


Again the #1 one reason for the 180 is to protect and prepare the betrayed...any thing that comes after that is a bonus one way or another.LOL


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Somehow I've a feeling that my wife takes me for granted. It looks like she thinks that she can come back to me anytime she wants. Looking the latest chat message with OM always point to this direction. What is wrong with me?? Am I not controlling the situation or this is the way a WS behaves?? My wife wants the family to be together and wants me to forgive her but I still don't see the real remorse in the email and I don't trust her intentions...

please help me analyze this situation.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

John2012 said:


> please help me analyze this situation.


What for? You already know clearly what the situation is. Problem is finding the courage to free yourself from it. No one here is going to be able to give you that, at least in any sustainable way. You have to find it in yourself.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> What for? You already know clearly what the situation is. Problem is finding the courage to free yourself from it. No one here is going to be able to give you that, at least in any sustainable way. You have to find it in yourself.


Thanks. I understand what you're saying and I've a clear course of action.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Its called cake eating.
She wants OM for excitement and the taboo relationship. While she also has a family and a babysitter, security and a provider.

Stop sharing your wife!


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm sure the OM is playing with my wife's sentiments but how to wake up my wife from the fog. I would like to start the divorce papers and shall I discuss the divorce and attorney details with my wife? I don't want to discuss un-necessary things. I hope divorce will wake up my wife.

My good guess is that OM and my wife, they don't trust each other..the more I see the chatting messages, the more I feel that they both are just looking for the excitement unless Divorce papers hits one of them.

Please help me in the steps I should take to let me wife know about the divorce proceedings. I want her to make sure that she takes divorce seriously and wakes up.

Thanks,


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

John2012 said:


> I'm sure the OM is playing with my wife's sentiments but how to wake up my wife from the fog. *I would like to start the divorce papers and shall I discuss the divorce and attorney details with my wife? *I don't want to discuss un-necessary things. I hope divorce will wake up my wife.
> 
> My good guess is that OM and my wife, they don't trust each other..the more I see the chatting messages, the more I feel that they both are just looking for the excitement unless Divorce papers hits one of them.
> 
> ...



No, do not discuss the logistics and details with your wife. Talk to your attorney first. Write down your questions before seeing him so that you can cover your concerns, not waste time and keep your legal costs down.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

aug said:


> No, do not discuss the logistics and details with your wife. Talk to your attorney first. Write down your questions before seeing him so that you can cover your concerns, not waste time and keep your legal costs down.


I talked to the attorney. He told me to discuss with wife regarding child custody, child support, property division and investments/retirement funds. Shall I discuss these things with my wife? Or I can pay retainer to the attorney and I'll tell him to contact my wife for the details. I know it will be expensive if attorney steps in but what to do?? Any advise..


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

aug said:


> No, do not discuss the logistics and details with your wife. Talk to your attorney first. Write down your questions before seeing him so that you can cover your concerns, not waste time and keep your legal costs down.



:iagree:

And tell the wife nothing. Let her be served with the papers without warning. She will definitely take it seriously then.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And tell the wife nothing. Let her be served with the papers without warning. She will definitely take it seriously then.


Thanks, I'll follow this advise..I'll pay the retainer and will let attorney send the paper work to my wife..


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

John2012 said:


> I talked to the attorney. He told me to discuss with wife regarding child custody, child support, property division and investments/retirement funds.


Your attorney told you to discuss these matters with your wife?

I must question his competency.

That's like a doctor telling you to go home and diagnose your own illness.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> Your attorney told you to discuss these matters with your wife?
> 
> I must question his competency.
> 
> That's like a doctor telling you to go home and diagnose your own illness.


Yes, attorney told me. He was saying that to reduce the cost, the best way is to discuss with wife and come to an agreement but I've decided against that. I'll let attorney do the talking...


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

I did that during my divorce. Or at least, I tried. 

Always worked against me though. All I accomplished was to tell the exwife what I'd be willing to settle for, that became the new lower amount that she'd negotiate for.

If your wife is levelheaded and looking to settle amicably then yes, whatever you can agree to yourselves will save a boatload of time and money, but tread carefully.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Another quick help, I and the OMW's have not exposed this affair to many of our friends. Now I'm drafting an email to send to all our common friends. My only worry is that my wife being a narcissistic, will she react with rage, as I know she is very much worried about her reputation?? I know I should not worry about her now but just need your advise. 

You all are very helpful. thanks.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

John2012 said:


> Another quick help, I and the OMW's have not exposed this affair to many of our friends. Now I'm drafting an email to send to all our common friends. My only worry is that my wife being a narcissistic, will she react with rage, as I know she is very much worried about her reputation?? I know I should not worry about her now but just need your advise.
> 
> You all are very helpful. thanks.


If there's a chance for a clean, civil, amicable,friendly, cheap, fast divorce, then hold off on any such announcements.

It's only going to cause greater conflict and strife and accomplish nothing.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> If there's a chance for a clean, civil, amicable,friendly, cheap, fast divorce, then hold off on any such announcements.
> 
> It's only going to cause greater conflict and strife and accomplish nothing.


Thanks a million to all of you. Your advise saved a lot. I was getting carried away by my anger. I'll do my best to make it a clean, civil, amicable, fast divorce.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

I need help. We've two cars, both the cars are through bank loan, one I'm paying another one my wife is paying. But these both cars are on my name. Shall I take both the cars and sell one of them?? And then tell my wife to buy one for herself?? Or shall I leave it as it is and focus on divorce??


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

John2012 said:


> I need help. We've two cars, both the cars are through bank loan, one I'm paying another one my wife is paying. But these both cars are on my name. Shall I take both the cars and sell one of them?? And then tell my wife to buy one for herself?? Or shall I leave it as it is and focus on divorce??


She needs a car, as long as she's paying for it then what's the problem? Assuming she still wants it, I'd see about transferring the title and loan obligation for the one she uses to her, she'll get it in the divorce anyway.

Maybe that's one of those things you can work out together. Figure out the relative value of the two cars and she gets one, you get the other and if one is worth more then one of you gets a "credit" towards some other marital asset.

Welcome to the world of divorce negotiations.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Myself being an honest family man and I never knew the real face of my wife. Today I'm surprised and confused with the deception. I've access to WS and OM chat messages and I see what they chat. At the same time, when WS has any problem at home, she almost begs me as if she is in remorse. 

Honestly by seeing those begging, my heart would have melt but knowing that chat message convey something else, make me tough.

A very tough situation for an honest BS to be in....

BTW, please explain the logic behind WS moving out of home instead of BS apart from child custody issue. Normally at home the amount of work is very huge and that should breakdown a WS rather then getting a free pass to contact OM when staying outside without kids?? Am I getting wrong?

Thanks,


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The logic is that you no longer are her poblem and are confident in letting her completely go and finding some with the respect you diserve.

At this point I'm assuming that she will continue to contact OM no matter if she stays in the marital home or not.

Also its a consequence for her behavior to have find a place to stay. Think of it a a reality check for WW in whats about to happen when the divorce is finalized.

Sorry I'm coming late, I'll have to read your thread and get caught up so I can stop assuming.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

also why would you want your WW having OM over when your not around, eating your food, sitting in your lazyboy, using up your utilities, and sleeping in your bed?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Are you in the US ??? Does your phone record video ??

Look no matter what you do she is going to snap when she is served.
You said she NPD, then you need to video your contacts with her secretly with your phone if you can.

Has she moved out yet ???


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

With heavy heart I started the divorce ball rolling. Met the attorney, paid the retainer and told her to go ahead with the divorce. 

I'm almost crying as I'm writing this as the dream of having a life-long partner and a wonderful family is shattered by selfish nature of WS. Knowing that my kids will never see their Mom & Dad together hurts so much, but I've to do this to regain my self-respect and show my kids the right way to handle if they ever encounter this situation in their life.

Any idea how long uncontested divorce will take to come to a conclusion. thanks everyone.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Not trying to be a jerk but I sometimes wonder if the Poster is not being true and telling a story. In a previous note he stated he talked to the attorney and referred to the attorney as a He. In the most recent post he referred to the attorney as Her.

Just a question.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

rrrbbbttt said:


> Not trying to be a jerk but I sometimes wonder if the Poster is not being true and telling a story. In a previous note he stated he talked to the attorney and referred to the attorney as a He. In the most recent post he referred to the attorney as Her.
> 
> Just a question.


I changed the attorney from he to her. I took a credit card cash loan so I just want to be careful in selecting a attorney. I looked for a low hourly rate and the latest one works for my budget.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Okay.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I am sorry it had to come to this, but the outcome with a selfish non empathetic wife is usually divorce. It will take some time, but you will be better off without her.

As far as how long the divorce takes to become final, it depends on the state you live in and also if the financial property settlement and custody issues can be agreed upon. If you can't agree - it takes longer and becomes more expensive.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

I’ll be shortly opening a new thread in divorce forum before that I would like to make one clarification to this thread. I’ve used American user name as John just to be avoid being detected by my WS. After D-Day I made a mistake of using my original name in one of the forum and my WS created problem for me. I’m from south asia, as you may know, we south asian are more emotional, we love watching movies/dance/festivals and family become our day-to-day life. For us divorce/infidelity/PA is a taboo. 

I migrated to usa in 2000 after getting “arranged marriage” with the aim of having a good life and providing support to my extended family way back in my country. For me control/180/police report/divorce in usa/credit card cash loan etc are new terms/items. If this same situation has happened in my country, then this would have been resolved by using physical force on both WS/OM. 

I’ve browsed through couple of south asian thread in this forum and I found that after discovering infidelity, south-asian normally rug-sweep it and allow cake-eating and within no time we go for R. We leave everything to god. I would have done the same but I found that I’m dealing with an NPD WS. The reason I joined this forum is to get feedback from the community members regarding how to deal with NPD WS. That changed my course of action towards D. 

I would like to thank you all and my mother/brother for helping me come to a decision. Looking forward for your help in divorce forum. 

I’ve couple of questions:

1.Is there any way I can help my WS educating about her PD? Or I should just leave her alone.
2.My son who is 8 years old is almost growing to be an NPD, I can see that. What I can do to change his behavior?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Sorry man things ended this way.


> Is there any way I can help my WS educating about her PD?


You don't have necessarily a PD WW. Many people (waywards nad betrayed alike) are selfisgh and self centered. It's not a matter of educate them. The know well whay the are doing, they just don't give a damm of value different things than you, basicaly they put self gratification over everything.
If she is really hard core PD there's nothing aviable, nothing to change it. Most likely they never admit the issue. Not even the better trained profesional. PD have no cure. You can "improve" some behaviors by intensive training but that's all.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

My wife received the Divorce notice and now she is all flared up. She is gaslighting me and telling me that I'm the one not working on making the marriage work. She is threatening me that she will make divorce nasty. My wife is working but she says that I've to pay for her divorce lawyer. 

She is texting that I'm unnecessarily provoking her. She thinks that by filing for Divorce, I'm very unfair. I'm not a gentleman and I'm taking advantage of her niceness. she is saying I turned out to be cruel. 

I'm keeping in contact with her via text or email. 

What I should do next, how to handle people with gaslighting nature.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

John2012 said:


> My wife received the Divorce notice and now she is all flared up. She is gaslighting me and telling me that I'm the one not working on making the marriage work. She is threatening me that she will make divorce nasty. My wife is working but she says that I've to pay for her divorce lawyer.
> 
> She is texting that I'm unnecessarily provoking her. She thinks that by filing for Divorce, I'm very unfair. I'm not a gentleman and I'm taking advantage of her niceness. she is saying I turned out to be cruel.
> 
> ...


Ignore her. Do not communicate with her unless it involves the children. The text and email is a good idea (aka having it in writing). You might not be a "gentleman", however, she is no "lady" either. 

She can say a lot of things, however it doesn't make it true. She has to pay for her own attorney, and the Court can decide later whether you reimburse her for legal fees. Not her decision. 

Remain calm, disengage from her (unless it involves the children of course). So who is in the marital home now? Are you back? Who will have physical custody of the children? Visitation? The children and their well being should be your focus. Not her. Yes, I know the type she is. She wants to make it "all about her", but at this stage she has lost control of you. Keep it that way.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> Ignore her. Do not communicate with her unless it involves the children. The text and email is a good idea (aka having it in writing). You might not be a "gentleman", however, she is no "lady" either.
> 
> She can say a lot of things, however it doesn't make it true. She has to pay for her own attorney, and the Court can decide later whether you reimburse her for legal fees. Not her decision.
> 
> Remain calm, disengage from her (unless it involves the children of course). So who is in the marital home now? Are you back? Who will have physical custody of the children? Visitation? The children and their well being should be your focus. Not her. Yes, I know the type she is. She wants to make it "all about her", but at this stage she has lost control of you. Keep it that way.


Thanks. My plan was to go back in the marital home after she is served the divorce. I don't know whether my WS has BPD/NPD but I know it is very difficult to handle her if I'm at home. She will threaten/cry/ will use kids and will do anything to trigger my anger or sympathy. 

At this juncture, she is involving her parents. Her parents were very silent until now, so I'm getting too much pressure to stop the divorce. And I know that unless she has the full consequence of what she has done, she will repeat this cheating behavior. 

Kids are with her and yesterday she told my son that dad is going to divorce and my son got panicked and started crying. I will loose control over her if I go home because of frequent nasty gaslighting.

Just exchanging text messages with my WS, she is ready to give 50-50 joint physical/legal custody but she still wants to know why I should divorce her. 

Oh, BTW, the only clause my WS didn't liked in the divorce is that she is not getting any alimony. We both earn almost equally and she is ready to quit the job for the sake of alimony so that I can have more financial strain...I don't know much of about alimony though..I'm still learning..


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> She is texting that I'm unnecessarily provoking her.


That bit yes, sounds you wounded her narcissistic core.
Go back home (except if your lawyer give you the opposite advice), don't forget to carry a VAR on yourself.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

John2012 said:


> Oh, BTW, the only clause my WS didn't liked in the divorce is that she is not getting any alimony. We both earn almost equally and she is ready to quit the job for the sake of alimony so that I can have more financial strain...I don't know much of about alimony though..I'm still learning..


Any GOOD lawyer won't let her get away with quitting her job in order to soak you for her living expenses. Just so you know.

Worst case scenario - Up to three years of "rehabilitative alimony", usually awarded to SAHM to give them time to further their education and to get a real job. In your W's case, she already has the training AND a job (at this time). So, if she quits, and the Judge feels sorry for her, they MIGHT offer a couple of months. Not likely, but possible depending on how your attorney argues on your behalf.

The Upside for you is that she won't soak you for the rest of your life if at all.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

sw you are giving a lot of specific legal advice that isn't necessarily true unless you and John are in the same state and even then, results can vary considerably depending on the judge.

In my state the "monied" spouse is now responsible for paying the non or lessermonied spouse's legal fees during the divorce action and alimony or more accurately "spousal maintenance" is typically awarded when there is a large financial disparity and it's from 1/2 to 1/3 the length of the marriage.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Can anyone help me understand my rigid behavior. My WS wife is asking whether there is any chance for reconcile but I don't know what happened to me, I become very cold and insensitive to her text message. I completely changed from crying H to a very cold person. I don't talk to her and I don't even send any reply to text message. I don't feel like talking or communicating with her. Is it because I feel empowered? Or is this the way BS behave after some time??

I just talk to my kids and I'm very happy with my lonely life. Is it normal?? thanks.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

John2012 said:


> Can anyone help me understand my rigid behavior. My WS wife is asking whether there is any chance for reconcile but I don't know what happened to me, I become very cold and insensitive to her text message. I completely changed from crying H to a very cold person. I don't talk to her and I don't even send any reply to text message. I don't feel like talking or communicating with her. Is it because I feel empowered? Or is this the way BS behave after some time??
> 
> 
> I just talk to my kids and I'm very happy with my lonely life. Is it normal?? thanks.


Yes. it's normal to be happy after separating or divorce for a lot of hurt spouses. 

IMO, it is far better to be alone, than to have to play detective forever and forever wonder is your spouse will cheat again. The doubt can eat you alive and cause a lot of misery.

I think the fact that you are now cold, simply means you have fully processes the depth of the betrayal, and now see your wife for who she is.....that being a liar, a cheater and a deceptive back stabber type person. 

It's kinda' normal to be cold when you finally see those personality traits in anyone.

At first a betrayed spouse is in shock and denial about the magnitude of the betrayal. 

They only become cold and distant when they come out of the denial and start facing reality.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

John2012 said:


> Can anyone help me understand my rigid behavior. My WS wife is asking whether there is any chance for reconcile but I don't know what happened to me, I become very cold and insensitive to her text message.


Easy, You finally woke up. Many BS' never really do, or they don't until much much later. So congratulations and welcome to the first day of the rest or your life. 

Rough way to get it started, but i think your going to be ok now.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

You now realize that you want out of the club .... "Skanks-r-us"


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Sorry if I missed it but is she still in contact with the OM ?


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Sorry if I missed it but is she still in contact with the OM ?


She told me she is not in contact with OM, I don't know how I can verify that part though but I do know divorce really created panic for her and she is much more interested in saving her marriage then worrying about OM now. Her parents are very actively advising her. She is going for IC and wants to mend her ways. She promised me to give all her secret email/password etc but I'm least interested in those details. Everyday/night/afternoon I get bunch of text messages from her about why she cheated i:e; she basically wanted to escape the pressure/pain and responsibilities but honestly I don't see any remorse, all I see is that she is doing some damage control or just want to protect her and I,a husband of 12 years was her backup; Plan B !!!


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

John2012 said:


> Shaggy,
> 
> They've not slept together and there is no sex but deep EA. I'm working on moving back home and she is moving out.
> 
> ...


So you would put your life savings on the fact that they haven't had sex?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

John2012 said:


> Can anyone help me understand my rigid behavior. My WS wife is asking whether there is any chance for reconcile but I don't know what happened to me, I become very cold and insensitive to her text message. I completely changed from crying H to a very cold person. I don't talk to her and I don't even send any reply to text message. I don't feel like talking or communicating with her. Is it because I feel empowered? Or is this the way BS behave after some time??
> 
> I just talk to my kids and I'm very happy with my lonely life. Is it normal?? thanks.


You are naturally doing what we have to coach a lot of people into. We call it the 180 in your case your natural reaction is to be cold and distant. It is a good thing. Your are preparing to accept the fact that you may not have a spouse and emotionally you are detaching. Why should you not this woman lied to you. I hate to say this but I am willing to bet money they have snuck off at least once to have sex. Unless you had a gps tracker on her this whole time, any time she "went to the movies or when out with friends" is suspect. 

Don't fight this reaction you are having it is a good sign and it ensures that your wife has to do all the heavy lifting to show you that she wants back in. So the means that Reconciliation is on her not you, and D is her fault not yours.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

She is still trying to manipulate you, she needs to do the heavy lifting to reestablish the relationship. She now wants you to forgive and forget, if you do, you will regret it. 

If you want to R you need to have her write a NC letter, you read it after she is done and if it meets with your approval you mail it.

You need to write down what she needs to do for the management of her life that will show her the actions she needs to take. Why, do you need it written down, from what you have said she apparently has a difficult time understanding what she needs to do. This makes it clear to her.

Note, even if she does the above you are not bound to R This is only the first step in her actually showing you that she is not treating you as Plan B.

If you do not see a change in "Attitude" even if she does the above or if she has done irrepairable harm to you emotionally at all means continue with the D.


You do not deserve to have ben treated in the way she treated you. No Respect.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

badbane said:


> You are naturally doing what we have to coach a lot of people into. We call it the 180 in your case your natural reaction is to be cold and distant. It is a good thing. Your are preparing to accept the fact that you may not have a spouse and emotionally you are detaching. Why should you not this woman lied to you. I hate to say this but I am willing to bet money they have snuck off at least once to have sex. Unless you had a gps tracker on her this whole time, any time she "went to the movies or when out with friends" is suspect.
> 
> Don't fight this reaction you are having it is a good sign and it ensures that your wife has to do all the heavy lifting to show you that she wants back in. So the means that Reconciliation is on her not you, and D is her fault not yours.



I would like my WS to join this forum so that she share her thinking/feelings, is it advisable?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

John2012 said:


> She told me she is not in contact with OM, I don't know how I can verify that part though but I do know divorce really created panic for her and she is much more interested in saving her marriage then worrying about OM now. Her parents are very actively advising her. She is going for IC and wants to mend her ways. She promised me to give all her secret email/password etc but I'm least interested in those details. Everyday/night/afternoon I get bunch of text messages from her about why she cheated i:e; she basically wanted to escape the pressure/pain and responsibilities but honestly I don't see any remorse, all I see is that she is doing some damage control or just want to protect her and I,a husband of 12 years was her backup; Plan B !!!


phone records would be a good start to verify no phone contact. You can't delete phone logs.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> She is going for IC and wants to mend her ways. She promised me to give all her secret email/password etc but I'm least interested in those details.


Good signs on her part.


> Everyday/night/afternoon I get bunch of text messages from her about why she cheated i:e; she basically wanted to escape the pressure/pain and responsibilities


Owning her stff, not blameshifting, good sign on her part.


> but honestly I don't see any remorse, all I see is that she is doing some damage control or just want to protect her and I,a husband of 12 years was her backup; Plan B !!!


If you don't feel you don't. Affairs a dealbreakers. It's your prerrogative to give her a chance or divorce her.
Now, if you decide to give her a new chance you have to talk. You can't know whether she's being manipulative or genuine with no comunication. You may think about making your demands (NC letter, passwords, whereabouts) just in order to stop the divorce. Then watch her closely to determine her consistence, coherence, humility... remorse.
It seems you already determined she was NPD because exibited the classic entitlement issues of the cake eater untle become aparent the divorce was in the cards (totally common, average wayward bahavior). Only the above will help you separate one from the other.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

John2012 said:


> She told me she is not in contact with OM, I don't know how I can verify that part though but I do know divorce really created panic for her and she is much more interested in saving her marriage then worrying about OM now. Her parents are very actively advising her. She is going for IC and wants to mend her ways. She promised me to give all her secret email/password etc but I'm least interested in those details. Everyday/night/afternoon I get bunch of text messages from her about why she cheated i:e; she basically wanted to escape the pressure/pain and responsibilities but honestly I don't see any remorse, all I see is that she is doing some damage control or just want to protect her and I,a husband of 12 years was her backup; Plan B !!!


I agree about the lack of remorse. It seems as if she is still playing the blame game.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

John2012 said:


> My WS wife is asking whether there is any chance for reconcile but I don't know what happened to me, I become very cold and insensitive to her text message. I completely changed from crying H to a very cold person. I don't talk to her and I don't even send any reply to text message. I don't feel like talking or communicating with her. Is it because I feel empowered? Or is this the way BS behave after some time? I just talk to my kids and I'm very happy with my lonely life. Is it normal?? thanks.


 You enjoy your 'lonely' life because it's not filled with her drama. I take it you have no desire to stay married? You realize she'll probably end up with the kids, right? You'll get weekend visits and, if you're lucky, a couple days after work.

I just want to understand your real goals. It sounds like you woke her up. She may be at a place where she's willing to listen to you and get help, if you were to push it as a requirement for you to come home and not divorce her.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

turnera said:


> You enjoy your 'lonely' life because it's not filled with her drama. I take it you have no desire to stay married? You realize she'll probably end up with the kids, right? You'll get weekend visits and, if you're lucky, a couple days after work.
> 
> I just want to understand your real goals. It sounds like you woke her up. She may be at a place where she's willing to listen to you and get help, if you were to push it as a requirement for you to come home and not divorce her.


I'll answer one at a time:

1. The reason I lost the desire to stay married is because she disconnected me emotionally from her. During height of her A, I used to come home to talk to her but she used to go directly to bed. And slowly I became very isolated and now I'm fine staying alone.

2. Her frequent gaslighting nature kills me. I can't talk/discuss anything. She always thinks I'm trying to take advantage or do some harm to her. I don't know why? This is another reason I don't want to stay married to her. 

3. My real goal now is to focus on my small start up venture which I started and go with full throttle on that venture. 

4. I'm tired of detective work on WS. I've two kids to take care off and I've to start a kind-of-detective work on them, monitoring the web-site they visit, school work, extra-circular work etc. 

5. I think two things woke her up, OM left (I don't know the reason though) and my filing for D but it still hurts that I was Plan B. 

6. My WS may not get full custody as she can't drive on highway nor she can drive beyond our current town. So I'll leverage that as an issue for 50-50 physical/legal custody.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

John2012 said:


> I would like my WS to join this forum so that she share her thinking/feelings, is it advisable?


yes but don't let her know which account is yours. let her do that on her own. Unless you just wanna do it in a joint way "look up "somedaydig" he started a joint thread to help with his R. Since if you decide to D and want advice you don't have to create a new account to do so.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *John2012* View Post
> I would like my WS to join this forum so that she share her thinking/feelings, is it advisable?


Before doing this I'd ask for this thread to be moved to the private section.
Maybe you can direct her to another infidelity board.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

badbane said:


> yes but don't let her know which account is yours. let her do that on her own. Unless you just wanna do it in a joint way "look up "somedaydig" he started a joint thread to help with his R. Since if you decide to D and want advice you don't have to create a new account to do so.


Thanks. I'll let her open a new account and I won't tell her about my account.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

As stated above, as the Mods to move this thread to the Private Section. Do not think it is a good idea for her to read over your thoughts but that is your choice.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

rrrbbbttt said:


> As stated above, as the Mods to move this thread to the Private Section. Do not think it is a good idea for her to read over your thoughts but that is your choice.


I don't want her to read my thoughts. I want her to open up and discuss her personality and her issues with the marriage. Thanks.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> How long do you think it will take her to find your thread?
> 
> Why don't both of you join a different marriage/infidelity board instead?
> 
> .


Ok, I'll tell her to use different board.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriageadvocates.com


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

John2012 said:


> I would like my WS to join this forum so that she share her thinking/feelings, is it advisable?


NO!!!!! NO!!!!! NO!!!!!

Ab-So-Faa-King-Loot-ly NOT!

It's a terrible idea!!! 

Another website perhaps, But i even think thats a bad idea. 

She's the one you claim is narcissistic and highly manipulative right?!?! DO NOT GIVE HER ACCESS to people that know and will comment on who she is, what she's doing, your source of information, advise and support. WHatever you do, DO NOT bring her here.

NO!!!!! NO!!!!! NO!!!!!


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> NO!!!!! NO!!!!! NO!!!!!
> 
> Ab-So-Faa-King-Loot-ly NOT!
> 
> ...


She has decided against joining any forum and I'm not forcing her. She would like to take the help of IC to improve herself.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Good Lord !! How old are you man ???

I'm not trying to be mean, but you REALLY need to read " The Married Man Sex Primer ". and its not a sex book.

You do NOT want yor wife on this site period !!!

This woman is doing damage control and you are ready to roll over again like a puppy.

Sure you want to keep your family together, but EVERY email or txt you read between them showed you as the backup.

I for one was glad you stayed away. You was a helpless babe around her, and she will say, and do anything to get you back under her thumb. And you better believe if she has NPD like you think, she is going to make your life a living hell for causing all this trouble, and making her give up her soul mate.

Truthfully, YOU have a lot of growing and learning to do before you should even consider getting into any relationships.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Good Lord !! How old are you man ???
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean, but you REALLY need to read " The Married Man Sex Primer ". and its not a sex book.
> 
> ...


I would rather appreciate if you can point the things I've done wrong. I'm not considering R at this moment and my attorney has send the divorce papers and I'm still in NC and in dark.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

The way you write, make it seem as if you are thinking of R with her.
You have to get your head around this fact " No one knows what cheater is thinking ", so the whys of is a waste of time. 
Only their actions will show the truth.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> The way you write, make it seem as if you are thinking of R with her.
> You have to get your head around this fact " No one knows what cheater is thinking ", so the whys of is a waste of time.
> Only their actions will show the truth.


Honestly I open up my heart in this forum. Just to share with you all and get feedback. I take both positive and negative comments and then I plan my next move. 

I agree, without you all, I would have been a failure and I would have been in R now.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I appreciate you being honest with us. I admire how you trusted the ppl here having never met them.
Just take good care of yourself so you can see to your kids.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

You have realy transformed into a stronger person as compared in the begining, good luck man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Sorry that you are here. You seem to be making great strides. Thumbs up to you. Keep working on yourself.. Mind ,Body and Spirit. I know that sounds trite but, you must save yourself and hopefully your kids now. Your wife is poison and you must get away from her. Alot of the legal questions you have can be answered on Google and this web site.Good luck to you and God Bless. David


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