# Are lifetime passions common? If not, then...



## DustyDog

Every once in a while, I meet someone who has a "lifetime passion" for something. A friend of mine loves building furniture. His dad did it, and he's outstanding at it. He's always owned property in rural/farmland so he could have a barn to put his woodshop in. He's also, a bit, well, seems older than he is. Not truly connected to 'things of today' and in fact, for that reason, he quit working at an early age because he could not keep up with modern technology.

A woman I know absolutely treasures the sorts of arts and crafts she first hooked up with in grade school. She listens to 1970s rock and roll, claims she likes nothing newer - but hasn't actually listened to anything newer, so how does she know? Not so much as my other pal, but this woman also seems a bit stuck and disconnected from how today really is.

To me, these people are unusual. Most people I know spend their liesure time going places they haven't gone, trying new things, etc. I play music, so I know a lot of musicians. Most of them are playing different music than what they were playing 20 years ago...and are hoping to play to a different audience than before. Particularly as I head toward 60, I definitely want a younger audience to come listen to me, since 60+ year olds don't go out to see music as much as younger people! And, when I think of the most alive and vibrant 40+ year olds that I know, they are not the ones doing the same hobbies they had as teenagers, other than vaguely - for instance, musicians still play music, but different music. Artists still do art, but they've moved from painting to sculpting or kinesthetics or dance. Writers shift from fiction to non-fiction, or poetry, and so on.

I see also in the career field, those who do well, get promoted, continue to earn above average, are not doing today what they did even ten years ago, much less 20. Sure, an engineer may still be an engineer, but the technology they work on today didn't even exist 10-20 years ago.

So, it seems a "lifetime passion" may not be so common and may even be detrimental to the progress of an individual's growth in physical, emotional and spiritual ways.

So, with this as a background, would there be any surprise that it's difficult to want to be with the same person for 20+ years, much less 40? My quick summary is: 9 year LTR starting age 25. 5 years single and fun. Then almost 20 years married. In the LTR, I knew the likely friction spots would be her anger, but I did not expect it would get worse AND she'd develop a highly materialistic streak.  The wife was a worse surprise - after a few years, it was clear she wasn't who she presented as, and she began a regression into childhood fears and inability to cope with the world. So...in the first case, I was kinda with a person who didn't change, and in the second case I was with a person who regressed. 

But even if I were with someone who grew and improved - I would expect her to do that based on HER objectives, not mine, so would we have ended up in the same place - two people with little enough in common that a life committed to each other would be a constant struggle?

I know that neuroscience is starting to demonstrate that we, as individuals, evolve constantly, with approximately 10-20 years being required for an individual to pretty much be a totally new person. And if your spouse does the same, the question is "would they be interesting to me today if we met now?" Long enough to raise the kids is what neuroscience is currently claiming is the normal life span of a marriage with two people who are individually seeking to maximize their own potentials. I have no doubt that each person must compromise here and there to put the relationship at higher priority than each individual but at some point, I would expect, we start to ask "have I completely veered off my best course, to stay with a person who is no longer interesting to me?"

Just musing...curious to see responses.

DD


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

DustyDog said:


> Every once in a while, I meet someone who has a "lifetime passion" for something. A friend of mine loves building furniture. His dad did it, and he's outstanding at it. He's always owned property in rural/farmland so he could have a barn to put his woodshop in. He's also, a bit, well, seems older than he is. Not truly connected to 'things of today' and in fact, for that reason, he quit working at an early age because he could not keep up with modern technology.
> 
> A woman I know absolutely treasures the sorts of arts and crafts she first hooked up with in grade school. She listens to 1970s rock and roll, claims she likes nothing newer - but hasn't actually listened to anything newer, so how does she know? Not so much as my other pal, but this woman also seems a bit stuck and disconnected from how today really is.
> 
> To me, these people are unusual. Most people I know spend their liesure time going places they haven't gone, trying new things, etc. I play music, so I know a lot of musicians. Most of them are playing different music than what they were playing 20 years ago...and are hoping to play to a different audience than before. Particularly as I head toward 60, I definitely want a younger audience to come listen to me, since 60+ year olds don't go out to see music as much as younger people! And, when I think of the most alive and vibrant 40+ year olds that I know, they are not the ones doing the same hobbies they had as teenagers, other than vaguely - for instance, musicians still play music, but different music. Artists still do art, but they've moved from painting to sculpting or kinesthetics or dance. Writers shift from fiction to non-fiction, or poetry, and so on.
> 
> I see also in the career field, those who do well, get promoted, continue to earn above average, are not doing today what they did even ten years ago, much less 20. Sure, an engineer may still be an engineer, but the technology they work on today didn't even exist 10-20 years ago.
> 
> So, it seems a "lifetime passion" may not be so common and may even be detrimental to the progress of an individual's growth in physical, emotional and spiritual ways.
> 
> So, with this as a background, would there be any surprise that it's difficult to want to be with the same person for 20+ years, much less 40? My quick summary is: 9 year LTR starting age 25. 5 years single and fun. Then almost 20 years married. In the LTR, I knew the likely friction spots would be her anger, but I did not expect it would get worse AND she'd develop a highly materialistic streak. The wife was a worse surprise - after a few years, it was clear she wasn't who she presented as, and she began a regression into childhood fears and inability to cope with the world. So...in the first case, I was kinda with a person who didn't change, and in the second case I was with a person who regressed.
> 
> But even if I were with someone who grew and improved - I would expect her to do that based on HER objectives, not mine, so would we have ended up in the same place - two people with little enough in common that a life committed to each other would be a constant struggle?
> 
> *I know that neuroscience is starting to demonstrate that we, as individuals, evolve constantly, with approximately 10-20 years being required for an individual to pretty much be a totally new person. And if your spouse does the same, the question is "would they be interesting to me today if we met now?" * Long enough to raise the kids is what neuroscience is currently claiming is the normal life span of a marriage with two people who are individually seeking to maximize their own potentials. I have no doubt that each person must compromise here and there to put the relationship at higher priority than each individual but at some point, I would expect, we start to ask "have I completely veered off my best course, to stay with a person who is no longer interesting to me?"
> 
> Just musing...curious to see responses.
> 
> DD


I once read a great short story by the wonderful Ray Bradbury. In it, a couple had decided to part ways as they each wanted to find someone new. They then discovered that the way the body regenerates itself, each cell turns over and becomes anew (Ray foretold what science is telling us now, as he so often did--he was quite a visionary and observer of human nature). So they ultimately decided that, given the elapsed time, they were already with someone entirely new, and decided to stay together. It was very sweet.

As far as my personal take on this goes, yes, we all grow, change evolve, and become new people. The trick is for two people in a LTR who truly love each other, is to manage that evolution in such a way so as to facilitation continued togetherness. Change should incorporate bonding activities, so that the bond strengthens even in the face of change. My wife and I have both changed tremendously in three decades, but we have been very cognizant of steering that change toward each other rather than away.


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## I shouldnthave

Hum, I find your use of "life passion" a bit odd. The musician who changes and develops, he is still pursing a life passion.... same with the engineer. 

People who insist on stagnation and no development? That sounds unusual. 

I have a life passion, horse back riding. Been riding, working with trainers, competing, developing my own horses for 30+ years now. Its my life passion. I hope to still be riding when I am 80. My saddles have changed with the times, I am always learning new techniques, honing my skills. 

But the common thread still remains, my passion for horses, the outdoors, physical work. 

I see my relationship of 16+ years the same way. It has changed over the years, we have learned, developed, grown. Nothing stays just same, yet we are continually able to adapt to each other, to grow together - and our passion remains. 

The things about him I fell in love with are still there. He did not change into a completely different person, nor have I. Are we the SAME people we were at 22? No, but that 22 year old is still a part of us, and even more, we share a history together. I knew and loved the 22 year old him, just like I know and love the 38 year old him.


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## Laurentium

DustyDog said:


> But even if I were with someone who grew and improved - I would expect her to do that based on HER objectives, not mine, so would we have ended up in the same place - two people with little enough in common that a life committed to each other would be a constant struggle?


I don't know that a good relationship has much to do with having interests in common. I'm not that keen on the "we both like tennis" or "we both like antique furniture" relationships. (Which is one reason why most dating sites are a bit of a waste of time). 

And in your own examples, the problems you've had in relationships have not, after all, been about people evolving in different directions.


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## SimplyAmorous

This comes up a lot on TAM... how everyone changes over the years, and these changes cause us to turn into someone completely different than when we started out..... 

I have done 2 threads related to this issue....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...y-change-over-years-how-have-you-changed.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ng-vows-now-who-what-why-could-weathered.html

...as so often when I read threads like this... it assumes those who haven't changed all that much must be stagnant or something is wrong with us.. we haven't grown, evolved with the times, we should be completely different people 2 / 3 decades later....

If I had to list how I have changed over the years.. the list is small, is this so awful ?? Does this make me stagnant ? ... One plus... I've gotten better with age, sexually speaking, less worry over money also..... As for my husband.. I know he's gained confidence with his Job/ skills over the young man I met in my teens, just working in a Grocery store....we've juggled jobs, parenting a large family...

But nothing greatly significant has changed us into completely different people... 

It's like in the beginning, I think of Bon Jovi's "Living on a Prayer"... We worked hard, long hrs...hoping we could save enough ...buy a country Home/ land....have the children we planned (some struggle there)...

I liken it to seeing the Mountain before us.... then we are climbing the mountain ... it all flew so fast...the years.. Suddenly Mid Life is upon us already... oldest off to college, last son born.... Now... we're over the Hill ... so we're going down the other side.. but a few years back.. I'd describe it as ......"We were standing on the crest of the mountain... the wind was blowing in our hair.. we could look back and see how far we have come...WOW...realizing the dreams we started out with.... and we did it all together"... a deep thankfulness there..

Now it's like we are going down the other side of the mountain.. it's more about our Children.. wanting to see them DO well in life..for them to spread their wings ... we are there to help them in any way we can.. before our lives are over.... That was our main vision.. to have a family together.. to enjoy them and be there for them - till it's all over... 

Outside of this... we are just the working class... and that's fine... our passion is/ has always been - Family... Sure we have small hobbies on the side... but nothing that has evolved into a business or Passion that is greater than just enjoying togetherness and/ or family..


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## DustyDog

Laurentium said:


> I don't know that a good relationship has much to do with having interests in common. I'm not that keen on the "we both like tennis" or "we both like antique furniture" relationships. (Which is one reason why most dating sites are a bit of a waste of time).
> 
> And in your own examples, the problems you've had in relationships have not, after all, been about people evolving in different directions.



By "things in common", I'm not referring to the superficial things like both playing tennis or liking the same bands. I'm looking more at attitudes and philosophies toward life. Dualism versus non-dualism, whether to follow laws because it's right or just to avoid punishment, whether to continue following parental advice all life long or build a new set of rules unique to us, how do I chose to balance self-interest versus community benefit, and so on.

Those are the fairly deep fundamental sets of living life that tend to evolve many times in the life of a thinking adult.


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## I shouldnthave

DustyDog said:


> By "things in common", I'm not referring to the superficial things like both playing tennis or liking the same bands. I'm looking more at attitudes and philosophies toward life. *Dualism versus non-dualism, whether to follow laws because it's right or just to avoid punishment, whether to continue following parental advice all life long or build a new set of rules unique to us, how do I chose to balance self-interest versus community benefit, and so on*.
> 
> Those are the fairly deep fundamental sets of living life that tend to evolve many times in the life of a thinking adult.


I don't know, maybe I am weird - but to me, these are the types of things that *do not* dramatically change over time. For me, and from what I have seen in my husband over the years - is that these core values have remained. 

Does some one change from a "rule follower because it is right" to a "rule follower to avoid punishment" over the years? Do people's core and morality really take such a turn?

For us, my husband and I, its these core values that we see eye to eye on. The same things that brought us together when we were young, and the same things that bind us today.


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## Andy1001

SimplyAmorous said:


> This comes up a lot on TAM... how everyone changes over the years, and these changes cause us to turn into someone completely different than when we started out.....
> 
> I have done 2 threads related to this issue....
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...y-change-over-years-how-have-you-changed.html
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ng-vows-now-who-what-why-could-weathered.html
> 
> ...as so often when I read threads like this... it assumes those who haven't changed all that much must be stagnant or something is wrong with us.. we haven't grown, evolved with the times, we should be completely different people 2 / 3 decades later....
> 
> If I had to list how I have changed over the years.. the list is small, is this so awful ?? Does this make me stagnant ? ... One plus... I've gotten better with age, sexually speaking, less worry over money also..... As for my husband.. I know he's gained confidence with his Job/ skills over the young man I met in my teens, just working in a Grocery store....we've juggled jobs, parenting a large family...
> 
> But nothing greatly significant has changed us into completely different people...
> 
> It's like in the beginning, I think of Bon Jovi's "Living on a Prayer"... We worked hard, long hrs...hoping we could save enough ...buy a country Home/ land....have the children we planned (some struggle there)...
> 
> I liken it to seeing the Mountain before us.... then we are climbing the mountain ... it all flew so fast...the years.. Suddenly Mid Life is upon us already... oldest off to college, last son born.... Now... we're over the Hill ... so we're going down the other side.. but a few years back.. I'd describe it as ......"We were standing on the crest of the mountain... the wind was blowing in our hair.. we could look back and see how far we have come...WOW...realizing the dreams we started out with.... and we did it all together"... a deep thankfulness there..
> 
> Now it's like we are going down the other side of the mountain.. it's more about our Children.. wanting to see them DO well in life..for them to spread their wings ... we are there to help them in any way we can.. before our lives are over.... That was our main vision.. to have a family together.. to enjoy them and be there for them - till it's all over...
> 
> Outside of this... we are just the working class... and that's fine... our passion is/ has always been - Family... Sure we have small hobbies on the side... but nothing that has evolved into a business or Passion that is greater than just enjoying togetherness and/ or family..


This is a great post.Your love for your husband and family shines through.


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## Laurentium

DustyDog said:


> By "things in common", I'm not referring to the superficial things like both playing tennis or liking the same bands. I'm looking more at attitudes and philosophies toward life. Dualism versus non-dualism, whether to follow laws because it's right or just to avoid punishment, whether to continue following parental advice all life long or build a new set of rules unique to us, how do I chose to balance self-interest versus community benefit, and so on.
> 
> Those are the fairly deep fundamental sets of living life that tend to evolve many times in the life of a thinking adult.


Oh, in that case I may have misunderstood you. The original post mentioned things like furniture building or rock and roll music as "passions" that might or might not be life-long. 

If somebody's philosophies change at a deep level, then yes, that could be a problem.


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## I shouldnthave

DustyDog said:


> I'm looking more at attitudes and philosophies toward life. ..... whether to follow laws because it's right or just to avoid punishment.
> 
> Those are the fairly deep fundamental sets of living life that tend to evolve many times in the life of a thinking adult.


Saw a great example of this today. Couple in - I am guessing their mid to late 70's (not spring chickens) were standing at a street corner. Traffic is gridlocked (cars can't move), and we have a "red hand" telling us not to walk yet. 

Man says "eh, I am crossing, no one is going anywhere"
Woman says "well I am not!"
Man walks ahead of her crossing street.
Woman raises voice "I am not going! I am a rule follower!"

By this time, the man was totally ignoring his wife, walked across the road without her, and she was left trying to scurry to catch up after the light changed.

Has she always been a rule follower, while he doesn't give a damn? I don't know. Did it look like a picture of a happy and respectful couple? Nope.

On one hand I was really put off by how he just ignored and walked away from his wife. 

On the other hand - I also cut from the "screw it, I an crossing" cloth, and I could see it getting real old having a "rule follower" nag me all the time. 

But - I still do not think these are the sorts of things that change drastically over time. Was he really once upon a time a rule follower, that is now out of step with his wife? Or has she grown more conservative and adverse to risk? 

I can say, right now at least, after 16 years together - this is the kind of stuff my Mr and I have always seen eye to eye on. We both would have looked at the situation and crossed the street against the light.


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## SimplyAmorous

I shouldnthave said:


> I don't know, maybe I am weird - but to me, these are the types of things that *do not* dramatically change over time. For me, and from what I have seen in my husband over the years - is that these core values have remained.
> 
> Does some one change from a "rule follower because it is right" to a "rule follower to avoid punishment" over the years? *Do people's core and morality really take such a turn?*
> 
> For us, my husband and I, its these core values that we see eye to eye on. The same things that brought us together when we were young, and the same things that bind us today.


I think the types of things that can UPSET such values is: 

Extreme hardship, betrayals, loss of a good job (one's identity can be wrapped up in that), loosing a child, loss of one's health, mid life crises come to mind , when one's identity needs a re-haul ...the BIG things / life changing circumstances... some can't handle it...they may not care anymore and take a dramatic turn in the opposite direction..


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## arbitrator

I shouldnthave said:


> Hum, I find your use of "life passion" a bit odd. The musician who changes and develops, he is still pursing a life passion.... same with the engineer.
> 
> People who insist on stagnation and no development? That sounds unusual.
> 
> I have a life passion, horse back riding. Been riding, working with trainers, competing, developing my own horses for 30+ years now. Its my life passion. I hope to still be riding when I am 80. My saddles have changed with the times, I am always learning new techniques, honing my skills.
> 
> But the common thread still remains, my passion for horses, the outdoors, physical work.
> 
> I see my relationship of 16+ years the same way. It has changed over the years, we have learned, developed, grown. Nothing stays just same, yet we are continually able to adapt to each other, to grow together - and our passion remains.
> 
> *The things about him I fell in love with are still there. He did not change into a completely different person, nor have I. Are we the SAME people we were at 22? No, but that 22 year old is still a part of us, and even more, we share a history together. I knew and loved the 22 year old him, just like I know and love the 38 year old him.*


*My envisioning of marriage was always, that while I would have absolutely loved the "22 year old spouse" and the memory of her thereof, I would have loved my "82 year old spouse" that she would ultimately grew into, beyond measure, basically for who she had grown up to be, but moreso for the ardent love that she had so unselfishly displayed to me over the course of our lifetime together!

But for me, that's largely only a fleeting fantasy now, that I likely will never get to see in this lifetime!*


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## SimplyAmorous

Andy1001 said:


> This is a great post.Your love for your husband and family shines through.


 Thank you Andy... The "Mountain analogy" is something I refer to many times, as it captures how I view our journey together , starting out to looking back seeing where we are today, hoping to make it to our rocking chairs ...the plans we hoped to fulfill & spoke of so much in our youth.. it's all something we consistently shared, and worked together to achieve....

I was wondering if I was "in context" to what @DustyDog was asking... a little confused with the Passion part, jumped on the assumption we all should be changing /evolving... but it turns out.. it's more about our "core values" changing... which makes all the sense how this can tear a couple apart.. 

I'm with @I shouldnthave on this... I don't think these change all that much ...unless there is some sort of hardship / life stressors that enter in , slowly shattering the intimacy that once was....these can greatly threaten a couple's stability & happiness together..

One has to wonder how many don't share the same vision starting out though... when I read threads where a couple never discussed where they want to live (what if one is a city person & the other loves the country?) or even to have children.... I couldn't even imagine that [email protected]#


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## DustyDog

I shouldnthave said:


> I don't know, maybe I am weird - but to me, these are the types of things that *do not* dramatically change over time. For me, and from what I have seen in my husband over the years - is that these core values have remained.
> 
> Does some one change from a "rule follower because it is right" to a "rule follower to avoid punishment" over the years? Do people's core and morality really take such a turn?
> 
> For us, my husband and I, its these core values that we see eye to eye on. The same things that brought us together when we were young, and the same things that bind us today.


More common is to shift from "follow rules to avoid punishment" to "make my own rules because they're the ones that will help me grow into the best I can be". This process is, in fact, expected in most cultures.

The metaphor of death, then resurrection, which exists in all legends in all cultures, is about the many times in our lives we die and are reborn as a different person. The most important is child to adult. As a child, we obey rules and learn how society works. As adults, we are expected to question all the rules, discard those that won't help us become good members of society, and then help create new rules that form a better society. When we get married, we dispose of the rules of single life and live the rules of married life - another death and resurrection. Ditto when we have kids, or when we transition from work to retirement.

This is one of the key aspects of cultural norms - life would be easy if if were NOT normal for people to change their views on life, religion, ethics, morality. I saw a poll the other day - only 20% of people aged 50+ who identify as Catholic were introduced to it as children. For atheists, it's about 30%. For these two beliefs, anyway, it demonstrates that MOST people do a significant shift in belief systems during their lives.

This is a bit deeper than I was thinking, though.

The example from my own recent exercise in serial monogamy.

...I had to start over financially at age 35. Met a woman who seemed to enjoy emotional romance and being active. I needed to be frugal for a while and she was in the same situation and we both liked volunteering for things. Neither of us was particularly artistic. As time went on, and fortunes became adequate, I turned my attention away from money and toward the arts and she wanted nothing to do with it. She wanted to get more and more money, and do less and less with people, cutting back on volunteering and declaring the arts that drew my interest "shallow, vapid and money-sinks". Now, that might be OK as it was, but she was angry that my own view of money had changed to "we have enough". For my part, I was not too please being with someone who fundamentally seemed opposed to any direction I might head other than burrowing deeper into the cave she wanted to be in.

I think in most cases, it's OK for people to change, as long as the partner allows it. It was clear to me that we had so little in common any more that by her choice, we would not be together anyway. As I look back, her insistence that we do the same things was probably always there, it just wasn't so obvious when we both were pursing the same goals. And I don't think any of this is predictable.

When I hear the stories of divorced people, it seems a lot of it is exactly that - either someone mis-represented them at first (whether knowingly or not) or they simply diverged and no longer saw any reason to be together.


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## I shouldnthave

DustyDog said:


> But even if I were with someone who grew and improved - I would expect her to do that based on HER objectives, not mine, so would we have ended up in the same place - *two people with little enough in common that a life committed to each other would be a constant struggle*?


Well perhaps that is the issue. 

All I have an anecdotes. My grand parents who were happily married for 60 years, my older brother and his wife, 25 years, and no signs of divergence, same for my sister and her marriage of 20 years. 

My husbands parents who stayed together till his father's death, my dad and step mom who are approaching 30 years and have a just beautiful relationship. 

I have seen no dramatic shifts in values, nor religion, nor even views on fiances from any of them. 

Given the divorce rates in this country, obviously they are all not the norm. The average length of marriage before divorce is 8 years, and around 30 years old - so most couples do not make a decade before this "change" happened. 

I can say, these few couples I reference, have a TON in common. They just love spending time together and have similar outlooks on life.


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## Betrayedone

To answer your original question...............NO!


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