# Bizarre



## man.in.pain

:scratchhead:Ok, I have to share this with you guys. I haven’t been writing too much about my situation on here, but in short wife left in March, divorce was quick and final in September. After 12 years of marriage and two kids.
So tonight she calls me to confess. This past weekend she did Landmark Forum seminar and called me on Saturday to tell me she is sorry and it was all her fault, but she still doesn’t love me and doesn’t want to be with me, but wants to be friends. Pretty much told her no way in hell I want to be friends with someone who stabbed me in the back and cheated on me.
Well, tonight she called and started confessing. After all there was OM, which I knew all along. But she broke up with him two days ago after attending the brainwashing seminar. But she still loves him. She was with him four days after she asked for divorce, but fell in love with him before that, but didn’t want to do anything thinking the feelings will go away. Even admitted having sex with him. Then she asked me if I have a GF…I do, but it’s nothing serious. She started asking me about her…who she is…was she good in bed…how big her chest is…if I love her. I answered all the questions honestly…and the new GF is a lot better looking and in bed than her. She seemed very happy for me for moving on…even said it. She was happy that we are open and honest to each other. I just feel disgusted by her. 
Now believe it or not, I did not feel bad about her telling me about OM. I think it’s closure...don’t know. Then again I knew about them, but had no proof. I still do feel I should tell OM’s wife. I don’t know why. In my gut I think everyone deserves the truth…but again is it any of my business? 
What do you guys think? I am just confused about all this…but as I said I do not feel bad.
Anybody had anything like this happen to them.
:scratchhead:


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## norajane

> So tonight she calls me to confess. This past weekend she did Landmark Forum seminar and called me on Saturday to tell me she is sorry and it was all her fault, but she still doesn’t love me and doesn’t want to be with me, but wants to be friends.


Take this at face value. Now that the dust and drama has settled, she's done some thinking, maybe trying to learn something from this mess, and knows she's hurt you. She is admitting to the wrongs she did, she is apologizing. She obviously felt she needed to say that to you. Maybe she hadn't said that to you before or hadn't said it clearly and directly.

She added the rest so that she isn't giving you the wrong impression (she's not trying to get you back), and isn't holding anything against you (let's be friends). 

It was her way of getting closure, in a sense. 

I've sent a similar letter to an ex once. We were together for 6 years but I ended it because it had become clear that we really weren't right for each other and I finally gave up trying. It was emotional (we were in our early 20's) and sad for us. After I moved out and things had settled between us, I wrote him a letter to apologize for my part in the unhappy disaster that our relationship had become toward the end. My letter was heartfelt, and it didn't mean anything other than what I said.

My circumstances weren't like yours, but maybe your ex had a moment of clarity about her behavior and wanted to apologize.


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## 06Daddio08

I'd tell OM wife in a heartbeat.

I'd also stop giving her information on your own personal life.

Then again, I do not know your story and this is strictly based on my own personal opinion.


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## man.in.pain

Well, I get nothing from telling the OM's wife. I was thinking about this real hard...even about blackmailing the OM...lol. But I think I am just going to leave it alone. 
I do not care about telling her about my life, I do want her to know I moved on. In the beggining I was one of those guys who cried, begged...all the wrong things. But at least I tried. 
I all honesty, I still do feel bad about my kids. 
Now, Norajane, do you really think that "dumpers" need to get closure? I doubt it. Maybe only if they feel guilt or remorse. But even then thay would not go into detail about the affair, or whatever you want to call it. To me it was an affair because she was with him when we were going to MC and trying to patch things up. I know she has no guilt or remorse. Too much ego. She doesnt even feel bad for the kids.
Now, in our 12 years of marriage we never had any bad arguments, no cheating. We had a really good life. Good jobs, nice house, traveiling, doing family things. And the divorce was fast. It was done two months after filing. She now lives with her parents in a tiny townhouse. Kids are with her, but I see them a lot. The divorce was amicable, if you can call it that, but we did it pro se and split things evenly. Actually, she even left me the house and didn't even want my 401K.
I am just trying to understand why the hell did she have to say all this. And like I said, it's not remorse or guilt. I do hope that will come later after her feeling for the OM go away.


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## Thor

There may be nothing in it for you to tell OM's wife, but there is a lot in it for her! I am solidly in the camp of revealing infidelity to the innocent betrayed spouse so she/he can make fully informed decisions. I would want people in the know to tell me if my wife were having an affair.


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## man.in.pain

Thor said:


> There may be nothing in it for you to tell OM's wife, but there is a lot in it for her! I am solidly in the camp of revealing infidelity to the innocent betrayed spouse so she/he can make fully informed decisions. I would want people in the know to tell me if my wife were having an affair.


True, but one thing I do not want is to be responsible for breaking up another marriage. I know I am not the one responsible...but I am kind of guy who does not want to feel bad after doing something wrong. Eye for an eye makes the world go blind. I think I'd rather have a talk with OM, and make him feel guilty for breaking up my marriage.


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## 06Daddio08

Ah, so you 'give to get' a lot don't you.

You don't want to tell the OM wife because you don't 'get anything' out of it.

But, you have no problem approaching the OM based on the premise that you can make him feel guilty (hopefully) about it.

Therefore, you get something out of it.

You also do care about telling her what's going on with your life as it's the only way she can 'know you have moved on'.

Still, the 'giving to get mentality'.

You only feel the need to tell her things so she can get the idea that you've moved on.

That makes you feel good. Her knowing you are doing fine.

A lot to think about there, honestly.

So many different avenues of 'giving to get', all expressed in a few posts.


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## man.in.pain

UpnOver said:


> Ah, so you 'give to get' a lot don't you.
> 
> You don't want to tell the OM wife because you don't 'get anything' out of it.
> 
> But, you have no problem approaching the OM based on the premise that you can make him feel guilty (hopefully) about it.
> 
> Therefore, you get something out of it.
> 
> You also do care about telling her what's going on with your life as it's the only way she can 'know you have moved on'.
> 
> Still, the 'giving to get mentality'.
> 
> You only feel the need to tell her things so she can get the idea that you've moved on.
> 
> That makes you feel good. Her knowing you are doing fine.
> 
> A lot to think about there, honestly.
> 
> So many different avenues of 'giving to get', all expressed in a few posts.


I guess you are right. I do want her to know I have moved on...Hell, I want her to suffer just as much as I did. But that is not my focus in life...I cant do that. We have two kids together and I have to look what is best for them and what can affect them. I think I am just probably confused after her confession. Tomorrow I'll feel different. It's better to sleep on it and decide later what the right thing to do is. Tell his wife or not.
Maybe talk to my therapist first. Dunno. Too much to take in. But I appreciate your honesty.


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## 06Daddio08

man.in.pain said:


> I guess you are right. I do want her to know I have moved on...Hell, I want her to suffer just as much as I did. But that is not my focus in life...I cant do that. We have two kids together and I have to look what is best for them and what can affect them. I think I am just probably confused after her confession. Tomorrow I'll feel different. It's better to sleep on it and decide later what the right thing to do is. Tell his wife or not.
> Maybe talk to my therapist first. Dunno. Too much to take in. But I appreciate your honesty.


Do what you feel you need to do because in the end it is your life.

I saw a few things that I thought would be helpful to point out before you make your decision.

See the 'hot and cold' you have there? (red is hot, blue is cold in the quote).

I want her to suffer! ... but that's not what I want to base my life on.

There is a lot of conflict there in your thoughts.

Which one is guiding your actions?

If you have proof of the affair for the OM wife, then you have time and there is no instant rush to expose.

The 'tomorrow I will feel different' is a good thing though.

Not defining yourself generally by how you feel in the moment is good.

Each day is different, heck, a few hours can make a big difference.

So saying "I am depressed" (for example) isn't actually true.

"Today I feel depressed. Or down, sad etc".

Talking it over with your therapist is a good idea.


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## norajane

man.in.pain said:


> Now, Norajane, do you really think that "dumpers" need to get closure? I doubt it. Maybe only if they feel guilt or remorse. But even then thay would not go into detail about the affair, or whatever you want to call it. To me it was an affair because she was with him when we were going to MC and trying to patch things up. I know she has no guilt or remorse. Too much ego. She doesnt even feel bad for the kids.


Yes, I do think "dumpers" need closure, especially after 12 years of marriage. I'm sure she feels regret for hurting you. It doesn't mean she regrets leaving the marriage, but she can most certainly regret hurting you.


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## dumpedandhappy

Interesting. 
Your circumstances are kinda unique but really there is nothing to my mind to even consider here. 

This person, she has made it clear enough to you. There is no love. 
You said, "...Pretty much told her no way in hell I want to be friends with someone who stabbed me in the back and cheated on me...."
So did you mean it? "pretty much"? 
Are you being honest with yourself? If I were you I would head to the counsellor and talk. Take care of yourself on this issue. I personally would move on. 
Tell her, " Hey, I really am glad your talking to me about all this but quite frankly I don't want to go there anymore, we don't have a relationship anymore...I am moving on so, good luck and thanks for all the good times."

Spend more time on those two kids. That's where you should be spending your mental energy now. Not on her. 
She's just a drain on your life now, for nothing she has to say will add to it. Prune her off your tree and watch the tree strengthen and bear better fruit. Her inclusion is a blight on anything thereafter. 

It's your life now...she had her chance, fill yours with new ideas, people, adventures...forget the past but learn from it. 

Change the channel, her formula sit-com just isn't interesting anymore.


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## man.in.pain

I have already moving on. It’s been 7 months already since she left. To be honest I am not 100% healed, and I know it takes time. I am being the best dad I can be, she even confirmed this. Hitting the gym…going out with friends…flirting with the girls…going to therapy…joined the divorce support group…but it’s a slow process. After all this woman was everything in my life. I loved her with all my heart. There was so much she told me in the last seven months that I could not write it in one post. We had a really long conversation on the phone. In a way I wish we did not, but I know in a long runt this will give me closure. Truth is I am still deeply hurt. I was fine until she started confessing. Now I feel I’m two steps back. It’s just a weird feeling.
She is not remorseful for ending the marriage or hurting me or the kids. She said it. Not feeling guilty, remorseful, regretful for any of the things she did. I am secretly hoping this will come. 
Yesterday I texted OM that she confessed and that I know everything, asked him to call me. He responded he will call me today…which I highly doubt. I bet he is ****ting his pants now and I assume she talked to my XW. She kept calling me and texting all morning and asking me to talk to her. She is probably regretting telling me the whole truth. When I finally called she was panicked. First asked me how am I doing today…then asked if we are done telling each other everything and begging not to include anyone and to stop hurting people (WTF?). My only response was that we can only talk about the kids and nothing else. No more. 
Dumpedandhappy, no I do not want to be her friend. I can’t. There is too much pain. It would be different if she had some remorse and sincerely apologized. Maybe sometimes in the future, but not right now. Not till I am completely healed and over her. And to be honest, if she did regret it and apologized I would consider taking her back. Not that she wants that…but everyone makes mistakes in life, and if you are remorseful and honest you can build something out of it. But no, nothing from her. She is even saying she is finally happy. Which she was saying since she left me. Of course she was happy. She was with OM…in love. Still is but doesn’t want to be with him. This is probably a lie too.
I know she is going to hit the bottom soon. She lives with her parents…her tax bill just came in (12K) and she even had the balls to ask me to pay for half of it. Another one is coming soon. She got involved in MLM business and spending a ton of money on that. And the latest thing is this Landmark Education seminar that lasts for 3 days and to me is just a brainwashing cult that sucks the money out of her. She spent $500 on a weekend seminar and signed up for another on for $800. She is on the brink of losing her job. She works for the insurance company and they are not happy with the election results. It’s going to hurt to see her struggling, she is the mother of my children and I still do have feelings for her that are slowly fading away. but I will not be able to help her. Nor do I want to. She made a mess out of her life and keeps making a wrong choices day after day. So maybe after she hits the bottom she might realize that the life with me wasn’t so bad as she paints it. 
Still thinking if I should tell OM’s wife. Most likely I will…hell what do I have to lose? I already lost everything.
Thanks everyone for your responses. This is a great place to vent and to hear others advices. Keep them coming .


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## 06Daddio08

If she told you these things without any remorse, guilt or any sort of real 'closure' on her end (from what you can tell) then it's probably only for one real reason.

Validation.

She unloads all of HER guilt (for what SHE did, not for what she did to YOU or the kids) onto you and waits for the reaction.

If you come out swinging, freaking out and p!ssed beyond belief well then there you go.

She's validated her reasons for leaving, look how you reacted.

BUT.

On the flip side of the coin, if you come out all "happy dappy things are a-okay" you validate her leaving still.

"Oh he turned out fine, he's okay. He doesn't hate me, hold anything against me. I can live life how I want freely without this guilt anymore."

There isn't anything you can do about it.

Really, unless she came flat out to you and said "I want to work this out" there's nothing else for you to say or do on a relationship level with this woman.

Kids and that's it.

Of course she's going to freak out about you releasing this information to OM or OM wife.

She took you for a 'nice guy'.

You'd never hurt her, you have no reason to now right? You told her things were okay. Life was grand and so on.

I say all of this once again without knowing anything of your story, the history of your marriage and the details.

I've been here since May .. about the same time frame as you apparently in regards to the separation but I've seen enough story's on here to pretty much come to the realization that there is a generic pattern underlying all of this.

You seem to be handling yourself fairly well given the situation, so I commend you on that but be careful with the information you release and what you do with the information you get.

All the papers aren't signed yet right? You aren't divorced completely yet.


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## dumpedandhappy

MIP:

You said, "Still thinking if I should tell OM’s wife. Most likely I will…hell what do I have to lose? I already lost everything."

I won't moralize here nor will I say what is right or wrong, but something about "telling his wife" doesn't sit right with me. 

Also, when you say, "I already lost everything" I say, " Hold the Phone!!" 

You lost your wife. Ok. You lost the Average *White Guy[ *or other..it's just an expression  ] dream of Surburban Bliss, your family will now change, etc. But..NO you didn't lose everything. 
Come on. You have your health, you have 2 kids, you have friends and family and you have common sense. 

Let's be honest, this is an emotional experience, do I ever know that!! *But it isn't the end of things, it's just a beginning you didn't expect or plan for. *

We all on here know what it is you are going through but beleive me all this drama and pain will one day be a memory for you, it takes time and it's different for all of us so I am not discounting your experience at all...but the ruin of your Marriage isn't the prelude to the Fall of Rome! 

I personally wouldn't tell the guy's wife, I would confront him but to rip apart that woman and expose his family seems too drastic. Should he get away with it..no. Is it right him lying to his wife, no. But are you the catalyst for the reckoning because you are hurt and in pain? 

I would think on it, only you know your situation well enough to be the real judge of what is right or wrong.


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## man.in.pain

My divorce is done. Two months now. 
I had a talk with OM today. He denied everything she said...well, I am pretty sure they talked before he called me. She even asked me today if I am following her and checking her phone. I am not…I did do it in the beginning, but I realized I was just hurting myself. So, the OM first tells me there was nothing between them…later tells me there was only one kiss. Yeah right. I know he is scared for his own marriage. His story is that his marriage is collapsing too and that he couldn’t care less if I told his wife. It would be a relief for him. Says they are going to counseling twice a week. I am not buying it. At one point he started being mean to me, but quickly calmed down. Says that my XW used him as a pawn to get out of her own marriage. It’s really all bs. 
Upnover, you are right about validation. 
Well, here is a bit of history of my marriage. We met early…I was her first boyfriend…first kiss. Then we broke up for a few years, she moved out of town and I haven’t seen her for a few years. Than we found each other online and started chatting. We got back together, dated for about a year and got married. Life was good. She was always saying this. She loved me, and was telling everyone how much she is in love with me. People say that we were the best couple ever and never thought we would end up like this. We were doing everything together. Going to Europe…Mexico twice a year. We were best friends. Even now she will confirm this. We had a great jobs. After 6 years we had a first kid, two years later a second one. We wanted a third one but the doctor advised against it since she had some problems…nevermind that. She was working from home last 6 years. Than two years ago she got involved in MLM scheme…she was spending long hours recruiting, going to meetings and presentations. We started to slowly disconnect… but in September we went to Mexico with the kids and things were good again. In January two of us went to Secrets resort. It was my surprise for the 12th anniversary. Again, things were goo…but not great. One night I got drunk and passed out in bed. But the next day I had a butler lit the candles in the room, fill the hot tub, open a champagne, and throw a ton of rose petals on the bed and all over the room. She walked in and started crying…we had a great sex that night.
That was one thing we were missing in our marriage, sex. Average twice a week .
Then in March she told me she wants a divorce. Moved out of house five days later. We tried reconciling for a week, but she pulled back. Now she tells me she did not love me but was trying to get her feelings back. But at the same time she was with OM. I took a two week trip to Europe to visit some friends and family and did not call her once. Only talked to the kids. When I came back I gave her a cold shoulder and asked her if we are done. She said yes. I went to the court house the next day to file, but she stopped me. Crying and begging not to do it. So I did not. And we tried to get back together again. Went one MC session and she pulled back again. So I filed. And it was all done very fast. The way she wanted it. She cried on the D day, but I could not. I just felt sad but was starting to let go.
And here we are now…divorced for two months, and have some ups and downs. Less and less bad moments. Taking baby steps. No quick fixes.


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## Shaggy

Tell the OMW. Tell her.


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## man.in.pain

Shaggy said:


> Tell the OMW. Tell her.


I will. Today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreald

My Mom's husband was HEAVILY involved in Landmark. I would urge you to do some research on the cult-aspect of this organization and the damage it has wrecked on those participating in it.

If it were me knowing what I learned about Landmark, I would end all communication regarding her 'healing' process. For I guarantee you she will attempt to get you to join as well.

BTW, the person who started Landmark back in the 70's was a used car salesman, married with two kids. He had an epiphany while driving across the San Fran bridge. He left his wife and two kids in order to be 'happy' and ceased all contact with them. 

If any person were to enter my life and say they were involved with The Forum, I'd run like hell.


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## BookOfJob

man.in.pain said:


> .......... She is not remorseful for ending the marriage or hurting me or the kids. She said it. Not feeling guilty, remorseful, regretful for any of the things she did. I am secretly hoping this will come............


The worst way you can spend five, ten minutes of your life there. Time that would be better off spent watching porn or masturbate. At least we get some satisfaction out of it (sorry for the rudeness, MIP, but you get my anger there).

I figured that the worst impact to us emotionally is to see how the WW shows her emotion (or lack of). That simply hurts and ruins my day. I guess I am not totally healed, and this is why NC, TOTAL NC, is supposed to protect us BS.

All you guys in this thread, surely there is a better, logical response to this kind of phone call from WS (the one that has confession but lacks remorse). What is the best response? I am thinking along the line of saying that it is a good thing we are divorced but she was wrong to do this in a way that's so hurtful to the people who love her. I have accepted this and wish her the best on her journey onward. Something along that line... It is her ego thing that I predict will make her do these things (confess but not sorry). Truly a broken person.


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## man.in.pain

Dreald, I did a lot of research on Landmark and it scares the crap out of me. I can now see firsthand with my xw. I don't even understand half of what she is saying. Totally brainwashed. She even said she'll sign up the kids as soon as they turn 8. No way in hell will I allow this. 
BookOfJob, there is no response to her confession. She does not care about anything I have to say. The only thin I can do, and am doing is turn my back on her. Cut all communication, except when it comes to kids. She is calling me few times a day but I am not answering. Just asking her thru txt what does she want.
I am done...DONE with her. There was too much pain. I hope I can forgive one day. For me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paradise

BookOfJob said:


> All you guys in this thread, surely there is a better, logical response to this kind of phone call from WS (the one that has confession but lacks remorse). What is the best response? I am thinking along the line of saying that it is a good thing we are divorced but she was wrong to do this in a way that's so hurtful to the people who love her. I have accepted this and wish her the best on her journey onward. Something along that line... It is her ego thing that I predict will make her do these things (confess but not sorry). Truly a broken person.


Yes, here's how you respond. In the middle of the insulting confession get out a phone book and offer to look up the number of a shrink. Then turn around and walk away. All of that justification nonsense makes me sick to my stomach. I will not listen to that BS anymore.


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## man.in.pain

I did tell her this "please go see a therapist. It's clear that something is wrong with your head. At least do it for the kids". Well, you all probably know the answer on that already. She is not the one who needs a shrink.
I kept thinking the whole time that she is in the "affair fog". But now I clearly see she is just completely f****d up. 
I have been following TAM as well as some other online forums, and I have never read anything about WS or XS confessing like mine did.


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## man.in.pain

another development in this story. Last night xw and om called me. He intercepted the email I sent to his wife and wanted to know why I'm doing it. He tried every trick from intimidating me, threats to even being a nice guy. I havent raised my voice once. If it wasnt weird it would be funny. He is obviosely scared...I dont care. I asked him why is he scared now...he was not thinking about what would happen if anyone found out. Xw was on his side, which does not surprise me. He wants to help her take me to court to pay even more in child support, I am already paying maximum which is 28%. He promised to ruin me financialy...lol. Now I am even more determined to talk to his wife. To hell with him. They do not have kids so I do not care. He did not care about my kids during the affair...nor did XW. If i do nothing now they will feel they succeded in intimidating me. Yes, I might be immature...but so were they.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paradise

Record every conversation with them from here on out. Before I was one of them that thought you should drop it but if someone did that to me I would be on the phone with everyone from his and her family and making sure that they both understood not to mess with me.


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## man.in.pain

yep, I did just that. The whole thing is on tape recorder. And I also had a witnes. Going to talk to a lawyer on Monday. The one thing that bugs me is when he said he will help her get the kids out of state, far from me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman

NM - I need to read the whole thing before replying.


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## man.in.pain

has anyone been thru similar situation...telling OM/OW spouse? How did you do it? I tried email and facebook, but he is checking both. I have their home address, but if I send a letter he will most likely destroy it. Should I go to her house? Have someone else do it? I can probably call their home too. Could they label this as harrasment? 
This guy destroyed everything I was living for...everything that was dear to me. Yes, I do blame my XW too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Morgiana

I'm sorry, but you dont sound healthy, you sound like a person bent on revenge and destruction. Id let the xw know if she tried something that extreme you'd be up her ass and around the corner with legal stuff, but honestly it just sounds like you need to let go. Defend your rights to see your kids, definitely, but work on you, forget those guys.


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## man.in.pain

Morgiana said:


> I'm sorry, but you dont sound healthy, you sound like a person bent on revenge and destruction. Id let the xw know if she tried something that extreme you'd be up her ass and around the corner with legal stuff, but honestly it just sounds like you need to let go. Defend your rights to see your kids, definitely, but work on you, forget those guys.


Not healthy? :scratchhead:
If it wasn't for threats from OM I probably would drop it. But I am not going to run with the tail between my legs.


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## dazedguy

I was one the other side of this dynamic. My wife's affair was exposed to me by the OM's wife. She somehow found my phone number (easy for you to find since you know their address). I was totally blindsided but it was a wonderful thing for her to do. Whether it was her motivation or not learning the truth was a gift for me. 

I think you have an obligation to tell the OM's wife. She needs to know.


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## Shaggy

Morgiana said:


> I'm sorry, but you dont sound healthy, you sound like a person bent on revenge and destruction. Id let the xw know if she tried something that extreme you'd be up her ass and around the corner with legal stuff, but honestly it just sounds like you need to let go. Defend your rights to see your kids, definitely, but work on you, forget those guys.


Terrible advice. The OMW has a right to know!


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## Shaggy

There a couple of ways of approaching the OMW, the best might be during the day time while OM is a work. You could take a female friend or relative with you so you come across less threatening etc.

Write out a letter with the details of the affair and your cell number/email to contact you at if she wants to talk. 

then with the female companion, go to the door knock, introduce yourself and say your her with the very unpleasant task of telling her the truth about her husband. Then hand her the letter, and tell that her husband cheated with your wife. that your wife has confessed and you've divorced her, but you thought she had a right to know. 

tell her you don't want anything from her, and you contact details are in the letter if she ever wants to talk, but after this you'll let her deal with this as she decides too.

thank her for her time and walk away.

if she says it's not true etc, which she likely will, tell her you wish it wasn't, the details are in the letter, and if she believes you or not, you've shared the truth and your conscience is clean.


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## man.in.pain

Thanks. I have already contacted her thru email. But I highly doubt it was her responding. I left my phone number and she is refusing to call me. Wants me to send the proof via email, and then she will call me. My gut is telling me this is him. Who wouldnt call right away to find out what is going on. The only proof I have is the text messages from XW confessing. But she can easily check his phone record.
Thanks for your advice shaggy. That is what I'm going to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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