# She wants to return



## NotDoneYet

So I emailed my WW a stern letter announcing I filed for divorce, saying I'd no longer contact her until she ended contact with the OM and agreed to return. That was two days ago. She's since texted me about 30 times begging to come home. This after five months of little to no attention! I'm excited but skeptical. Still haven't sent any response. Any advice on how to proceed?


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## Thoreau

He dumped her. You are plan B.


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## tom67

Tell her you need time to decide between her and a couple of women you are currently dating so it looks like you have moved on and see how genuine she is at r.


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## tom67

Seriously could you ever trust her again? Just sayin.


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## Hope1964

You need proof she has sent nc letter and that she is sticking to it. You need full disclosure of everything she did. You need std test results in writing. You need full and unhindered access to her phone, emails, computer, bank accounts etc. for the next, oh, five years or so. You need all your questions answered, polygraph if you feel it would help. She must put gps on her car and her phone. She must let you search her car every day for burner phones and her person for......whatever. She must grovel at your feet and tell you she will do anything you want her to and then do it. She must commit to MC and IC for a few years.

Even after that, I'd be skeptical of her. She's proven herself less than trustworthy.


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## d4life

No way would I take my spouse back who not only cheated on me but was gone for 5 months to be with him/her.  If you do, it will only be a matter of time before it happens again.

One of this strongest parts of my marriage for the past 23 years is trust. Once that trust is broken its really hard to ever get back.


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## NotDoneYet

No, he definitely didn't dump her. He's a very needy, insecure person who's 27 and never had a girlfriend.


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## CH

If I remember correctly you gave her a choice and she chose him over you....

But it's your life and you have to do what you think is best for you.


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## happyman64

NotDoneYet said:


> So I emailed my WW a stern letter announcing I filed for divorce, saying I'd no longer contact her until she ended contact with the OM and agreed to return. That was two days ago. She's since texted me about 30 times begging to come home. This after five months of little to no attention! I'm excited but skeptical. Still haven't sent any response. Any advice on how to proceed?


Why not put her on a trial basis. Tit for Tat.

She deserves that. You need it.

Give her 30 - 60 days to prove to you that she wants to be with you!

And do not stop the D. She needs to prove to you by her actions she means what she says..............


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## Acabado

Can't she live with a trusted friend? Why directly from OM's house to yours?
Let her prove herself for a while, at least. Don't let her come back.
Read Hope1964 list. She need to be alone for a while and work on herself before considering as a potential partner.


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## NotDoneYet

Acabado said:


> Can't she live with a trusted friend? Why directly from OM's house to yours?
> Let her prove herself for a while, at least. Don't let her come back.
> Read Hope1964 list. She need to be alone for a while and work on herself before considering as a potential partner.


Acabado, can you give a link to the list? Couldn't find it.

Yeah I 'd prefer she stay somewhere else for a while, but we recently moved across the country and don't know anybody here, and we're too poor to afford separate apartments.


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## TDSC60

I don't remember any details from before. Has she been living with OM for the past 5 months or seeing him regularly?

Do not stop the D until you are comfortable and are sure of her (and yourself).

Sometimes a betrayed spouse wants the WS back because it is like a competition between BS and OM. The excite of winning the battle fades and the reality dawns that they really don't know this person any longer and really do not want them back. The prize for winning turns out to be something you don't want.

Don't get overly excited about her willing to return. Take it slow.


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## DavidWYoung

Is this your first post here, did I miss something?


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## Numbersixxx

Isn't that a deja vu? Are you willing to fall for this yet again?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NotDoneYet

She's been living with him since November, and had her own apartment for 2 months before that


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## DavidWYoung

Gone FIVE MONTH is a very big deal breaker! I do not care if you are too poor. She does not come back. Period!


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## sharkeey

NotDoneYet said:


> So I emailed my WW a stern letter announcing I filed for divorce, saying I'd no longer contact her until she ended contact with the OM and agreed to return. That was two days ago. She's since texted me about 30 times begging to come home. This after five months of little to no attention! I'm excited but skeptical. Still haven't sent any response. Any advice on how to proceed?


This is so weak.

You told her you filed for divorce and that you won't speak to her unless she ends the affair. It's contradictory, and basically announcing the divorce is a big bluff and she still has complete control over the outcome.

What you should have done:

Filed for divorce and said nothing. 

What you should do now:

Proceed with the divorce and do not speak to her unless as absolutely necessary to discuss only finances, kids, things of that nature.

Come back in 3 months for the next step.


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## NotDoneYet

Numbersixxx said:


> Isn't that a deja vu? Are you willing to fall for this yet again?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I'm willing to give it one more shot. I'd rather give it a second chance and fail than end it and wonder forever if I should've tried again.

There are those that would say she had a second chance, third chance etc. over the last few months...sorry I see this as one long episode. And knowing her troubled past and absolute disdain for counselors, the fact she's willingly agreed to counseling tells me something's possibly changed. I'd kick myself for not trying, and if she does cheat again - well, kicking her out would be a lot easier having been through this already.


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## TDSC60

NotDoneYet said:


> She's been living with him since November, and had her own apartment for 2 months before that


OK. She has demonstrated clearly where you fall on her list of priorities and it ain't at the top of the list. Probably not even the top 5.

I would be extremely skeptical about having her move back to you FROM HIS PLACE.

She needs to separate from him and prove to you that she has done so before getting back in your home.

You need to sit down and really think about what she has put you through, how she has disrespected and lied to you. How she basically tossed you out in favor of him. YOU need to really think about it and decide if you want the person she is now in your life and don't confuse the person she is now with the wife she was before the affair. You might want the pre-affair wife back but you have to realize that the pre-affair wife no longer exists.

Have you been providing money to her during the last 5 months? Something is not right here.


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## d4life

NotDoneYet said:


> Acabado, can you give a link to the list? Couldn't find it.
> 
> Yeah I 'd prefer she stay somewhere else for a while, but we recently moved across the country and don't know anybody here, and *we're too poor to afford separate apartments*.


No, she is to poor to live on her own without you. It sounds like she may be tired of needy boyfriend and needs a way out, and that it by using you.


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## NotDoneYet

sharkeey said:


> This is so weak.
> 
> You told her you filed for divorce and that you won't speak to her unless she ends the affair. It's contradictory, and basically announcing the divorce is a big bluff and she still has complete control over the outcome.
> 
> What you should have done:
> 
> Filed for divorce and said nothing.
> 
> What you should do now:
> 
> Proceed with the divorce and do not speak to her unless as absolutely necessary to discuss only finances, kids, things of that nature.
> 
> Come back in 3 months for the next step.


Definitely not a bluff, I promise you that - $435 filing fee is too expensive for just a bluff! Made it clear that just because she agreed to return didn't mean I'd take her back. I'm just posting this question asking what to do because I never expected she'd respond so quickly.


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## walkonmars

What are you going to do:
-when she wants to quit counseling after a couple of sessions
-she wants to "check up on OM" to be sure he's ok
-stops answering you questions
-accuses you of being unforgiving
(these are just a few)

that's why it's important that she lives elsewhere, takes care of herself, proves herself by attending all counseling, demonstrates remorse. 

During the time she's away you can schedule times to be together but don't live with her. AND be sure she knows that D is active but MAY be rescinded. 

Her desire for redemption should not hinge on the status of the D. If it does - that's a sign that she isn't interested in becoming a better person at all.


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## Hope1964

This is the list he was talking about



Hope1964 said:


> You need proof she has sent nc letter and that she is sticking to it. You need full disclosure of everything she did. You need std test results in writing. You need full and unhindered access to her phone, emails, computer, bank accounts etc. for the next, oh, five years or so. You need all your questions answered, polygraph if you feel it would help. She must put gps on her car and her phone. She must let you search her car every day for burner phones and her person for......whatever. She must grovel at your feet and tell you she will do anything you want her to and then do it. She must commit to MC and IC for a few years.
> 
> Even after that, I'd be skeptical of her. She's proven herself less than trustworthy.


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## phillybeffandswiss

She deserved a chance when he said "him or me." She chose the other guy.


A divorce filing, not the loving relationship, makes her choose him now? Naw, only thing she deserves is a truthful decision of "yea" or "nay."


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## NotDoneYet

TDSC60 said:


> OK. She has demonstrated clearly where you fall on her list of priorities and it ain't at the top of the list. Probably not even the top 5.
> 
> I would be extremely skeptical about having her move back to you FROM HIS PLACE.
> 
> She needs to separate from him and prove to you that she has done so before getting back in your home.
> 
> You need to sit down and really think about what she has put you through, how she has disrespected and lied to you. How she basically tossed you out in favor of him. YOU need to really think about it and decide if you want the person she is now in your life and don't confuse the person she is now with the wife she was before the affair. You might want the pre-affair wife back but you have to realize that the pre-affair wife no longer exists.
> 
> Have you been providing money to her during the last 5 months? Something is not right here.


Haven't been providing her money, no. We're very poor though and I made her help pay my rent/bills until I find a cheaper place, so we have a joint account to which she contributes. I keep all my money in my own account.


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## CH

NotDoneYet said:


> Yes I'm willing to give it one more shot. I'd rather give it a second chance and fail than end it and wonder forever if I should've tried again.


I thought this was her 3rd or 4th chance already? Wasn't 2nd chance when you asked her to choose you or him?


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## Jasel

NotDoneYet said:


> Definitely not a bluff, I promise you that - $435 filing fee is too expensive for just a bluff! Made it clear that just because she agreed to return didn't mean I'd take her back. *I'm just posting this question asking what to do because I never expected she'd respond so quickly.*


I'd just be worried that she responded as quickly as she did. If you do take her back make sure you have monitors in place. It's possible she's just trying to cake eat and will take the affair underground.

And from what you've been saying it sounds like you're her Plan B on top of that. I suggest if you DO let her come back you make sure that she's accountable. Full transparency, cell phones, passwords, emails, gps on phone and make sure you have monitors in place she doesn't know about.

That's IF you take her back. Not quite sure why you would even want to at this point but it's up to you. She seems to have a habit of telling you what you want to hear to string you along.


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## NotDoneYet

walkonmars said:


> What are you going to do:
> -when she wants to quit counseling after a couple of sessions
> -she wants to "check up on OM" to be sure he's ok
> -stops answering you questions
> -accuses you of being unforgiving
> (these are just a few)
> 
> that's why it's important that she lives elsewhere, takes care of herself, proves herself by attending all counseling, demonstrates remorse.
> 
> During the time she's away you can schedule times to be together but don't live with her. AND be sure she knows that D is active but MAY be rescinded.
> 
> Her desire for redemption should not hinge on the status of the D. If it does - that's a sign that she isn't interested in becoming a better person at all.


Yeah no way I'm canceling the divorce for a few months. If she lets up on the commitment, no joke she's gone.

This second chance is half because I want it to succeed and half because I want to be sure I gave it my all before quitting.


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## Wazza

NDY, let me ask you a question instead of giving you an answer.

How do you plan to rebuild trust with her? You have to have a plan for that.


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## Hope1964

Did you read my list??


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## NotDoneYet

CH said:


> I thought this was her 3rd or 4th chance already? Wasn't 2nd chance when you asked her to choose you or him?


Sorry, don't see it that way. I see it as one long drug binge, and wouldn't consider each time I tell her to stop shooting up a second chance. This filing is her rehab - a second chance comes after that.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

NotDoneYet said:


> No, he definitely didn't dump her. He's a very needy, insecure person who's 27 and never had a girlfriend.


Look at the bright side, no need for STD tests, _your wife_ was the only women who wanted him. 

Over you.

How about that for a swift kick in the nuts.

Yeah, take her back. Why not? More BS Darwin Award threads keep things entertaining around here.

/facepalm


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## 3putt

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


>


Ahhh, Mr. Woof


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## TDSC60

My advice would normally be to proceed with the D and let her know if she continues to show remorse for what she has done and proves to you she is worthy of being your wife then you might consider remarriage in a year or two.

But since you are determined to give it another shot now, you need to list the boundaries required for her to move back and make it clear that one little toe across any of those boundaries means she is out of your life forever.

She must write a letter to OM explaining that she has chosen to work on her marriage and he is never to contact her in anyway. She is not to tell him she is sorry or has any feeling for him at all or that she hopes he understands. This letter is about you, her, and your marriage. He is not to be mentioned except to tell him to get lost. She has to sign this letter and YOU mail it to him (not email). There are some pretty good examples of a no contact letter on this site (somewhere).

When he tries to contact her (and he will) she is not to respond and she must tell you immediately. If he calls from another number and she does answer the phone, she is to hang up immediately when she recognizes him. She is not to engage in ANY type of conversation at all.

All line of communication must be open to you, her email, phone, facebook - everything. If you need to you should install spyware or keylogger on devices she uses (and don't tell her about it).

Be careful. Don't get complacent and think she is 100% honest. She has a lot to prove to you.

Good luck.


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## warlock07

NotDoneYet said:


> Yes I'm willing to give it one more shot. I'd rather give it a second chance and fail than end it and wonder forever if I should've tried again.
> 
> There are those that would say she had a second chance, third chance etc. over the last few months...sorry I see this as one long episode. And knowing her troubled past and absolute disdain for counselors, the fact she's willingly agreed to counseling tells me something's possibly changed. I'd kick myself for not trying, and if she does cheat again - well, kicking her out would be a lot easier having been through this already.



You probably won't listen but you are making a mistake.. Don't make a decision and then rationalize it. Take the facts and then come to a decision. Wait a week or so before you ask her to come back and start the R process.


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## sharkeey

NotDoneYet said:


> Sorry, don't see it that way. I see it as one long drug binge, and wouldn't consider each time I tell her to stop shooting up a second chance. This filing is her rehab - a second chance comes after that.


Must be nice to make up the rules to suit your own needs.

Problem is it's not realistic.

You backpeddle this time and you're a goner.

You've already played the divorce card it's your last Ace.


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## NotDoneYet

Wazza said:


> NDY, let me ask you a question instead of giving you an answer.
> 
> How do you plan to rebuild trust with her? You have to have a plan for that.


I gave her a list of things she has to do, and she cannot waiver on one of them. Also made it clear this process will take a long time. I have several books I'll ask her to read, including one on how to help a betrayed spouse heal. 

I appreciate your understanding, Wazza. A lot of people on here are too quick to treat someone who wants to reconcile like an idiot. I'm no idiot, I know I very likely stand to be hurt again. But I want to be thoroughly sure the well is dry before I leave so I leave with no regrets. Trust me, I'll drop her like a bad habit if she falters. Life's too short to keep going through this ****.


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## NotDoneYet

Hope1964 said:


> Did you read my list??


Where's the list?


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## JCD

Numbersixxx said:


> Isn't that a deja vu? Are you willing to fall for this yet again?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Short answer: Yes


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## JCD

NotDoneYet said:


> Yeah no way I'm canceling the divorce for a few months. If she lets up on the commitment, no joke she's gone.
> 
> This second chance is half because I want it to succeed and half because I want to be sure I gave it my all before quitting.


Your responses to her have been weak and needy.

I don't believe it's 'no joke'. I believe after a month of sex, you'll drop the divorce 'because things are so much better'. Not even 5 months. One month.

She knows she can come back...and you'll help her move her stuff...just like you helped her move IN to the other apartment.

You helped your WIFE move AWAY from you.

It's your life...

I don't think you are an idiot for wanting to get back together with her. I don't think you are strong enough to enforce any boundaries...which makes what you are doing idiotic. If I can't be around Kate Beckinsale without turning into a cheating slavery moron, I should NOT be around Kate.

If you cannot enforce any boundaries on your wife, you shouldn't try to reconcile.


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## tom67

If it was a week or 2 ok, but this is 5 months. You are a better man than me. Good luck.


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## NotDoneYet

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Look at the bright side, no need for STD tests, _your wife_ was the only women who wanted him.
> 
> Over you.
> 
> How about that for a swift kick in the nuts.
> 
> Yeah, take her back. Why not? More BS Darwin Award threads keep things entertaining around here.
> 
> /facepalm


Well, because I'm smart enough to realize **** isn't always so simplistic.


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## NotDoneYet

TDSC60 said:


> My advice would normally be to proceed with the D and let her know if she continues to show remorse for what she has done and proves to you she is worthy of being your wife then you might consider remarriage in a year or two.
> 
> But since you are determined to give it another shot now, you need to list the boundaries required for her to move back and make it clear that one little toe across any of those boundaries means she is out of your life forever.
> 
> She must write a letter to OM explaining that she has chosen to work on her marriage and he is never to contact her in anyway. She is not to tell him she is sorry or has any feeling for him at all or that she hopes he understands. This letter is about you, her, and your marriage. He is not to be mentioned except to tell him to get lost. She has to sign this letter and YOU mail it to him (not email). There are some pretty good examples of a no contact letter on this site (somewhere).
> 
> When he tries to contact her (and he will) she is not to respond and she must tell you immediately. If he calls from another number and she does answer the phone, she is to hang up immediately when she recognizes him. She is not to engage in ANY type of conversation at all.
> 
> All line of communication must be open to you, her email, phone, facebook - everything. If you need to you should install spyware or keylogger on devices she uses (and don't tell her about it).
> 
> Be careful. Don't get complacent and think she is 100% honest. She has a lot to prove to you.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks! Yeah I've been planning to have her write a letter.


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## Dad&Hubby

NotDoneYet.

This is your opportunity to do a couple things.

1. Get your manhood and control back

2. AFTER you feel that control and build up your self esteem. THEN decide if you want her.

Here's what you do.
1. Finalize the divorce. Let your wife know, her moving out killed the "old marriage". If you two ever have a marriage again, it will be new. She ended the old marriage and you want no part of it.

2. Take some time for yourself. Date some other women. Do things JUST FOR YOU. Tell your STBXW this as well. Tell her she treated you like crap and you want to see what else is out there. AND DO IT. This isn't to rub your wife's nose in it. It's for YOU to realize YOU HAVE VALUE.

3. After you've met some women, THEN decide if your wife TRULY was this amazing person.

4. Tell your wife if she wants ANY chance to win you back, it's her turn to remain committed while YOU go see what's out there. If she can show you that she can commit to you during this period of time, then MAYBE she has a chance to earn your trust and you two can start DATING again and see where it goes.


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## NotDoneYet

warlock07 said:


> You probably won't listen but you are making a mistake.. Don't make a decision and then rationalize it. Take the facts and then come to a decision. Wait a week or so before you ask her to come back and start the R process.


Making a mistake? There are plenty of stories on here of successful reconciliation. Don't get me wrong, I know my odds are slim. But I'd rather take those odds and be betrayed again than leave with any regrets. Forgiveness is strength, my friend.

Yeah definitely not going to reply for a few days. I'll let her hang on the line and see if her disposition changes.


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## sharkeey

NotDoneYet said:


> Yeah definitely not going to reply for a few days. I'll let her hang on the line and see if her disposition changes.


Good plan. Give her the silent treatment and then if she still wants back in, go ahead and hand her the keys to your apartment.

/sarcasm off


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## Hope1964

NotDoneYet said:


> Where's the list?


I posted it twice in this thread for you already.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/66145-she-wants-return.html#post1388721

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/66145-she-wants-return-2.html#post1388868


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## Hope1964

Here - I'll put it in point form

- You need proof she has sent nc letter and that she is sticking to it. 
- You need full disclosure of everything she did. 
- You need std test results in writing. 
- You need full and unhindered access to her phone, emails, computer, bank accounts etc. for the next, oh, five years or so. 
- You need all your questions answered, polygraph if you feel it would help. 
- She must put gps on her car and her phone. 
- She must let you search her car every day for burner phones and her person for......whatever. 
- She must grovel at your feet and tell you she will do anything you want her to and then do it. 
- She must commit to MC and IC for a few years.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Okay, so your thread should have been titled "Help me with reconciliation after she left."

Gotcha.

Good luck..


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## Shaggy

I'd also say, she needs to post the OM herself on cheaterville and she needs to make a public apology to you for cheating and abandoning her husband and a public denouncement of the OM. She needs to send this to friends and family and the OM.

What Im saying is she needs to show she is truly dumping him and returning him with remorse.


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## Shaggy

Oh, and nothing that involves "doing it to spare the OMs feelings" is acceptable, she didn't give any care to her husbands feeling when she decided to cheat and move out to live as the OMs wife/mother, so he gets not one consideration here.


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## NotDoneYet

JCD said:


> Your responses to her have been weak and needy.
> 
> I don't believe it's 'no joke'. I believe after a month of sex, you'll drop the divorce 'because things are so much better'. Not even 5 months. One month.
> 
> She knows she can come back...and you'll help her move her stuff...just like you helped her move IN to the other apartment.
> 
> You helped your WIFE move AWAY from you.
> 
> It's your life...
> 
> I don't think you are an idiot for wanting to get back together with her. I don't think you are strong enough to enforce any boundaries...which makes what you are doing idiotic. If I can't be around Kate Beckinsale without turning into a cheating slavery moron, I should NOT be around Kate.
> 
> If you cannot enforce any boundaries on your wife, you shouldn't try to reconcile.


Wow, you know me so well! Trust me, I'm a far stronger person than I was when this all started. I will not tolerate this bull**** in my life any longer. I'll drop it after a month of great sex? Hell I won't allow her to have sex with me for at least a month. I can't give a timeline on dropping the divorce except to say the court date is in August - she has too much to prove.


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## Machiavelli

NDY, I forget how many kids y'all have, remind me.


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## NotDoneYet

Dad&Hubby said:


> NotDoneYet.
> 
> This is your opportunity to do a couple things.
> 
> 1. Get your manhood and control back
> 
> 2. AFTER you feel that control and build up your self esteem. THEN decide if you want her.
> 
> Here's what you do.
> 1. Finalize the divorce. Let your wife know, her moving out killed the "old marriage". If you two ever have a marriage again, it will be new. She ended the old marriage and you want no part of it.
> 
> 2. Take some time for yourself. Date some other women. Do things JUST FOR YOU. Tell your STBXW this as well. Tell her she treated you like crap and you want to see what else is out there. AND DO IT. This isn't to rub your wife's nose in it. It's for YOU to realize YOU HAVE VALUE.
> 
> 3. After you've met some women, THEN decide if your wife TRULY was this amazing person.
> 
> 4. Tell your wife if she wants ANY chance to win you back, it's her turn to remain committed while YOU go see what's out there. If she can show you that she can commit to you during this period of time, then MAYBE she has a chance to earn your trust and you two can start DATING again and see where it goes.


I can see the value in going through with the divorce and remarrying, but not in seeing other women. That'll only breed contempt in the new marriage.


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## NotDoneYet

sharkeey said:


> Good plan. Give her the silent treatment and then if she still wants back in, go ahead and hand her the keys to your apartment.
> 
> /sarcasm off


Yeah, reconciliation never works.

/sarcasm off


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## Hope1964

NotDoneYet said:


> Yeah, reconciliation never works.
> 
> /sarcasm off


Did you read my list yet??

And reconciliation ONLY works when the WS is *TRULY* remorseful. Do you know what 'truly remorseful' means?


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## Ostera

Mine moved out, but not for someone else.. She told me to move on and that we were through.

When i did move on and she found out I was seeing someone she wanted to R. I agreed to that.

My wife has money and her own place and so do I. We have agreed not to live together while we seek MC/IC in case it doesn't work.

I can relate to being poor as I was there some years ago.. however, I would suggest you don't use that as a reason to be under the same roof.

Is she capable of working somewherre where she can sustain herself? If so, then she should do that while you attempt the R in counseling.


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## NotDoneYet

LanieB said:


> NotDoneYet - I just wanted you to know you aren't alone. I'm basically in the same position you're in (except I'm a BW). In a nutshell, I confronted my WH about the affair, had a false R, discovered he was still involved in the A, kicked him out and filed for divorce. 3 weeks ago, I let him come back home. I realized he'd been in that "affair fog" before I even knew that was the actual term for it. Now he has (MAYBE) come to his senses. Even though I was (am) devastated, I felt like you do now - willing to give another chance if it would possibly work. At least I would know I did everything I could if it doesn't work.
> 
> I haven't stopped the divorce, and honestly, I don't know how this R is going or if I have the mental stamina to continue this. I have a good friend who won't even speak to me now because I took WH back. She thinks I'm a complete idiot and is disgusted by my actions. I realize there's a good chance this R won't work, but until I feel absolutely sure about what I want, I don't want to do anything permanent right now. While my divorce is still on-going, it has been going at a snail's pace anyway, and is nowhere near the end, so I've got lots of time to figure out what I want.
> 
> While there are similarities in many of our cases, we are all unique. What one person is willing to do, another one wouldn't. We each have to figure out what's right for ourselves and our families. It's easy for others to say, "Kick that cheater to the curb! Have some pride!" And that actually would be easier . . . but you've gotta be satisfied with your own decisions. Just give it time. That's my plan.


Thanks! We seem to be the minority here. What's worse, being cheated on one more time or living a lifetime wondering if you made the right decision?


----------



## sharkeey

NotDoneYet said:


> Yeah, reconciliation never works.
> 
> /sarcasm off


Not the way you're going about it.

The way you continue to handle this, you're making things much more difficult and less likely to succeed.

The folks on here who you think are beating you up are simply telling you that you need to rethink the way you're doing things if you want a chance for this thing to work, instead you're getting defensive because they're not telling you what you want to hear.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Machiavelli said:


> NDY, I forget how many kids y'all have, remind me.


No kids...don't think that matters though. Either way I'd give it another try no question. Though of course I think it's even more important to stay when you have kids. Those who say otherwise, in most cases you're wrong. Be adults and work through your problems, it's the greatest lesson you can teach your kids.


----------



## NotDoneYet

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Okay, so your thread should have been titled "Help me with reconciliation after she left."
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> Good luck..


Yeah lots of people reconcile after the WS leaves. You doubt that?


----------



## NotDoneYet

Shaggy said:


> I'd also say, she needs to post the OM herself on cheaterville and she needs to make a public apology to you for cheating and abandoning her husband and a public denouncement of the OM. She needs to send this to friends and family and the OM.
> 
> What Im saying is she needs to show she is truly dumping him and returning him with remorse.


I like that idea, hadn't thought of that. Thanks!


----------



## NotDoneYet

Hope1964 said:


> Did you read my list yet??
> 
> And reconciliation ONLY works when the WS is *TRULY* remorseful. Do you know what 'truly remorseful' means?


Yeah I read it. Good stuff! I told her most of that already.


----------



## John2012

NotDoneYet said:


> Yeah lots of people reconcile after the WS leaves. You doubt that?


What I know is that people are reactionary in nature. What I mean is that if she gets you easily, she will start having feelings for OM, she will miss him. How you are going to handle this??


----------



## Hope1964

NotDoneYet said:


> Yeah I read it. Good stuff! I told her most of that already.


So has she agreed to do it all?

What are you going to do when she fails to do something?

Do you know what TRULY REMORSEFUL means?


----------



## NotDoneYet

Ostera said:


> Mine moved out, but not for someone else.. She told me to move on and that we were through.
> 
> When i did move on and she found out I was seeing someone she wanted to R. I agreed to that.
> 
> My wife has money and her own place and so do I. We have agreed not to live together while we seek MC/IC in case it doesn't work.
> 
> I can relate to being poor as I was there some years ago.. however, I would suggest you don't use that as a reason to be under the same roof.
> 
> Is she capable of working somewherre where she can sustain herself? If so, then she should do that while you attempt the R in counseling.


Right now we are both out of work and living in different cities. I quit my job three weeks ago because I'm planning to transfer and don't know when I'll start the new job. She hasn't got a job yet since she moved in December. We'll both be starting in a new city together if she does come back, so being in new city with little money will be tough. I'd definitely prefer to live separately and am exploring the options, but realistically we may had to get a place together. Right now she's 7 hours away so commuting to meet each other isn't an option


----------



## walkonmars

NDY

I like your plan. Proceed with divorce with August due date. 

Meanwhile:
she has a chance to PROVE she is ready to commit to the marriage by:
1. NC with the OM

2. Written explanation of why she did what she did and steps she promises to take to become a better person and a good wife. (answers all questions at any time re the affair)

3. Maintain her own place and find online or other resources to help guide her in R. She should keep a list of these resources. 

4. You and she can discuss materials in the resources at scheduled times

5. When you see that she is pulling her weight with R then schedule MC with a counselor having experience with infidelilty

*she should seek IC on her own.


----------



## Machiavelli

NotDoneYet said:


> No kids...don't think that matters though. Either way I'd give it another try no question. Though of course I think *it's* even more _important to stay when you have kids._ Those who say otherwise, in most cases you're wrong. Be adults and work through your problems, it's the greatest lesson you can teach your kids.


I'm in favor of going pretty far to stay together when kids are involved. I've known a guy who went to insane lengths to stay in the house when R wasn't even on the table (pre-no-fault days) just to protect his kids, so I admire the sentiment. 

No kids? I'm outta there.

Are you fixated on trying to save this for "religious" reasons?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

NotDoneYet said:


> Yeah lots of people reconcile after the WS leaves.


 Where in my did I say anything different? 


> You doubt that?


Stop being defensive and trying to bait arguments.

You should take a deep breath and lower your hackles. I'll explain my post. If you added that title or said "hey, my goal is to reconcile" people wouldn't be giving you conflicting advice.

I've seen about four angry post directed at people not agreeing with your choice. A different first post and title would have alleviated that problem.

Good luck to you..


----------



## NotDoneYet

John2012 said:


> What I know is that people are reactionary in nature. What I mean is that if she gets you easily, she will start having feelings for OM, she will miss him. How you are going to handle this??


I've told her I can handle that she has feelings for him - naturally if she comes back, she can't turn them off like a switch - IF she's working to eliminate those feelings and never acts on them. This means of course therapy and understanding the roots of why she cheated, and getting to see that it wasn't really love but a drug. If she acts on the feeling again - life's too short, goodbye.


----------



## Wazza

NotDoneYet said:


> I've told her I can handle that she has feelings for him - naturally if she comes back, she can't turn them off like a switch - IF she's working to eliminate those feelings and never acts on them. This means of course therapy and understanding the roots of why she cheated, and getting to see that it wasn't really love but a drug. If she acts on the feeling again - life's too short, goodbye.


I think there are two scenarios you need to consider.

The first is that you and OM are the two most amazing men in her world and she is genuinely torn because you are both such an exceptional fit.

The second is that she has not figured out what you have to do to make long term commitment work, and is vulnerable to cheat agin with someone else next time she develops a crush or things get hard.

She was proposing a trial reunion in your last thread. It's not impossible that in her head you are still on trial. In the last thread she wanted permission to keep seeing OM. This time around permission is not granted. Doesn't mean she won't see him without permission. How do you guard against that?

Is the new city the OM's city? Since neither of you have work, I would strongly suggest you consider moving somewhere where he isn't.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I love NDY's posts. I guess the thing is, if a man insists on going his own path in the face of overwhelming advice to the contrary...and if he keeps coming back for advise and keeps ignoring it, well, he kind of deserves the consequences right?


----------



## NotDoneYet

sharkeey said:


> Not the way you're going about it.
> 
> The way you continue to handle this, you're making things much more difficult and less likely to succeed.
> 
> The folks on here who you think are beating you up are simply telling you that you need to rethink the way you're doing things if you want a chance for this thing to work, instead you're getting defensive because they're not telling you what you want to hear.


I wouldn't come to an advice forum if I only wanted to hear things I wanted to hear. It's unconstructive things like "/sarcasm off" I'm not willing to hear. And anyone who thinks that reconciliation as a rule of thumb never works - there's too much of that going around. Trust me, I've used a lot of advice from here that was counterintuitive to my own thinking.


----------



## tom67

WorkingOnMe said:


> I love NDY's posts. I guess the thing is, if a man insists on going his own path in the face of overwhelming advice to the contrary...and if he keeps coming back for advise and keeps ignoring it, well, he kind of deserves the consequences right?


Hey working is this what you are trying to say- :banghead::banghead::banghead:


----------



## sharkeey

NotDoneYet said:


> I quit my job three weeks ago because I'm planning to transfer and don't know when I'll start the new job.


I don't get why you quit your job.

You're "planning to transfer and you don't know when you're going to start your new job".

So you're now unemployed 3 weeks with an uncertain employment future. 

Why didn't you wait until you had something definite lined up?


----------



## NotDoneYet

Hope1964 said:


> So has she agreed to do it all?
> 
> What are you going to do when she fails to do something?
> 
> Do you know what TRULY REMORSEFUL means?


She has agreed to not contacting him, therapy, answering questions...the others hasn't disagreed, just I haven't been responding to her yet so I don't know. Don't have a car so I can't track her that way, but I'm definitely putting software on her phone & computer (without her knowledge of course). 

When she fails...depends on what she failed at, and to what degree. Slight infraction, I'm not sure what I'd do yet. But if she contacts him I'm inclined to give her the boot permanently.

Oh yes I know, remorseful means believing it was a mistake, groveling, being willing to do anything.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Machiavelli said:


> I'm in favor of going pretty far to stay together when kids are involved. I've known a guy who went to insane lengths to stay in the house when R wasn't even on the table (pre-no-fault days) just to protect his kids, so I admire the sentiment.
> 
> No kids? I'm outta there.
> 
> Are you fixated on trying to save this for "religious" reasons?


No, not for religious reasons. Religiously, the sacrament has been broken so I know I'm not obligated to stay. I'm staying because I need to be sure the well is dry so to speak so I'm guaranteed to have no regrets. Totally willing to risk being betrayed once more because it's better than living a lifetime of regret wondering if I should've stayed married.


----------



## Hope1964

NotDoneYet said:


> She has agreed to not contacting him, therapy, answering questions...the others hasn't disagreed, just I haven't been responding to her yet so I don't know. Don't have a car so I can't track her that way, but I'm definitely putting software on her phone & computer (without her knowledge of course).


 Good. She needs to not just agree to no contact, she needs to write him a nc letter with you as witness, and she needs to report to you if he tries to contact her. 



NotDoneYet said:


> When she fails...depends on what she failed at, and to what degree. Slight infraction, I'm not sure what I'd do yet. But if she contacts him I'm inclined to give her the boot permanently.


There is no 'slight infraction' here. This is her ONE AND ONLY CHANCE to redeem herself. What exactly do you think a 'slight infraction' would be?

And before you talk to her about ANYthing, you need to have this firmed up in your mind, because when you lay down the law to her, you are also going to tell her what WILL happen if (you know it will happen, but you give her the BOTD) she fvcks up.

I suggest you write it all down and she signs it and it gets posted somewhere conspicuous.



NotDoneYet said:


> Oh yes I know, remorseful means believing it was a mistake, groveling, being willing to do anything.


Here is what true remorse looks like

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html#post498294


----------



## theroad

This a good reason why new threads are bad. Too many stories to remember an no easy way to look back


----------



## NotDoneYet

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Where in my did I say anything different?
> Stop being defensive and trying to bait arguments.
> 
> You should take a deep breath and lower your hackles. I'll explain my post. If you added that title or said "hey, my goal is to reconcile" people wouldn't be giving you conflicting advice.
> 
> I've seen about four angry post directed at people not agreeing with your choice. A different first post and title would have alleviated that problem.
> 
> Good luck to you..


Okay, so your thread should have been titled "Help me with reconciliation after she left."

Gotcha.

Good luck..


Criticism followed by a "gotcha" and a "good luck" sounds like sarcasm. I guess it wasn't meant to be sarcastic, but pay attention to your wording. Lead me to believe you didn't support reconciliation. 

I disagree with anyone who fundamentally believes reconciliation can't work and welcome civil debate on the matter. The people I responded to angrily were being sarcastic. Not bating arguments, just defending myself.


----------



## walkonmars

NotDoneYet said:


> I disagree with anyone who fundamentally believes reconciliation can't work and* welcome civil debate on the matter*. The people I responded to angrily war being sarcastic. Not bating arguments, just defending myself.


There's not much debate about the value of reconciliation. But there can be a vigorous debate on genuine reconciliation and false reconciliation. 

The motivation for each is different. Thus the questions from posters to ensure the motivation is for genuine rather than false. 

Actions by the WS in either type of R are also telling, thus the steps and recommendations.


----------



## bfree

NDY,

I'm very pro R so in all sincerity I do hope this works out for you. My concern is that you aren't getting to the bottom of why your wife abandoned you and your marriage. Obviously there was some problems that caused this. My concern is that while it did not work out with THIS other man, the problems that were there before the affair are and will still be there and she might find someone else that works as your replacement in the future. That is pain you do not need and do not want.


----------



## Machiavelli

NotDoneYet said:


> No, not for religious reasons. Religiously, the sacrament has been broken so I know I'm not obligated to stay. I'm staying because I need to be sure the well is dry so to speak so I'm guaranteed to have no regrets. Totally willing to risk being betrayed once more because it's better than living a lifetime of regret wondering if I should've stayed married.


Fair enough. One caveat: be sure to use spermicide infused stainless steel condoms if you have sex with her. You don't want to add kids to this mix until your wife has a personality transplant.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

NotDoneYet said:


> Okay, so your thread should have been titled "Help me with reconciliation after she left."
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> Good luck..
> 
> 
> Criticism followed by a "gotcha" and a "good luck" sounds like sarcasm.


 Yes, because your defenses are high. Until your further posts I didn't know you wanted reconciliation. Clarity is the key, to keep away from this petty bickering we are engaging in. 



> I guess it wasn't meant to be sarcastic,


 It wasn't it was "AHA, if it was titled this way I would have said something different. Gotcha and good luck on your reconciliation I am out."



> but pay attention to your wording.


No and Right back at you. Since we are giving each other rules, ask a question if you aren't sure what I meant.



> I disagree with anyone who fundamentally believes reconciliation can't work and welcome civil debate on the matter. The people I responded to angrily war being sarcastic. Not bating arguments, just defending myself.


 I am not going to derail your thread further. Last word is yours.


----------



## NotDoneYet

WorkingOnMe said:


> I love NDY's posts. I guess the thing is, if a man insists on going his own path in the face of overwhelming advice to the contrary...and if he keeps coming back for advise and keeps ignoring it, well, he kind of deserves the consequences right?


You assume I'm ignoring the advice. I've used plenty of it. Your advice would be...?

How about this: if you feel I'm being ignorant, say so in a respectful manner. We're all having a hard enough time as it is.


----------



## NotDoneYet

sharkeey said:


> I don't get why you quit your job.
> 
> You're "planning to transfer and you don't know when you're going to start your new job".
> 
> So you're now unemployed 3 weeks with an uncertain employment future.
> 
> Why didn't you wait until you had something definite lined up?


I do have something lined up, my new apartment was having problems and wasn't ready by my original move date - I left my previous job thinking I was moving on the 1st.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Hope1964 said:


> Good. She needs to not just agree to no contact, she needs to write him a nc letter with you as witness, and she needs to report to you if he tries to contact her.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no 'slight infraction' here. This is her ONE AND ONLY CHANCE to redeem herself. What exactly do you think a 'slight infraction' would be?
> 
> And before you talk to her about ANYthing, you need to have this firmed up in your mind, because when you lay down the law to her, you are also going to tell her what WILL happen if (you know it will happen, but you give her the BOTD) she fvcks up.
> 
> I suggest you write it all down and she signs it and it gets posted somewhere conspicuous.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what true remorse looks like
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html#post498294


By slight infraction I mean like, if her alarm didn't go off and she missed a counseling session. I'm inclined to take everything seriously though, I don't want to go through this again. Good idea writing it all down and having her sign it.


----------



## bfree

NotDoneYet said:


> By slight infraction I mean like, if her alarm didn't go off and she missed a counseling session. I'm inclined to take everything seriously though, I don't want to go through this again. *Good idea writing it all down and having her sign it.*


Isn't that called a post nup?


----------



## NotDoneYet

walkonmars said:


> There's not much debate about the value of reconciliation. But there can be a vigorous debate on genuine reconciliation and false reconciliation.
> 
> The motivation for each is different. Thus the questions from posters to ensure the motivation is for genuine rather than false.
> 
> Actions by the WS in either type of R are also telling, thus the steps and recommendations.


I've encountered a lot of people on here who believe it never works...the "file for the D and don't look back" types. There are people on here trying to ensure her reconciliation is true though, and I appreciate them.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

NotDoneYet said:


> Lead me to believe you didn't support reconciliation.
> 
> I disagree with anyone who fundamentally believes reconciliation can't work and welcome civil debate on the matter.


lol.

Stop with the misdirection. 

So... Your the matryr of unconditional love and forgiveness, while these _imaginary people_ your picking a 'civil debate' with are the broken, jaded and souless of the world?

lol.

Is this what this conversation looks like inside your head? 

Nice smog.

Let's be CLEAR for the viewing audience: _everyone here_ believes in reconciliation. 

Just not YOUR version of reconciliation.

I'm done engaging you... Your not going to listen to anyone.

Good luck.


----------



## Hope1964

NotDoneYet said:


> By slight infraction I mean like, if her alarm didn't go off and she missed a counseling session.


In a case like that, what she does about her screw up will be more telling than the screw up. 

If she blows it off as no big deal and fails to apologize to you and the counselor and make another appt immediately, then she isn't doing what she needs to do. And ESPECIALLY if she's making you make the appts. That is a huge no no.

If she is distressed that she missed the appt and makes another one right away and apologizes and promises to make sure it never happens again, then yeah, that's slight.


----------



## NotDoneYet

bfree said:


> NDY,
> 
> I'm very pro R so in all sincerity I do hope this works out for you. My concern is that you aren't getting to the bottom of why your wife abandoned you and your marriage. Obviously there was some problems that caused this. My concern is that while it did not work out with THIS other man, the problems that were there before the affair are and will still be there and she might find someone else that works as your replacement in the future. That is pain you do not need and do not want.


Thanks for your thoughtfulness. I definitely want to kill the roots and not just trim the branches. IC is a must for her. Certainly we had our marital problems but her rough childhood definitely colored her response to them.


----------



## Ostera

Notdone, When I posted my first thread people were all over me about my W was clearly with another man and banging everyone in town.. When actually she left due to major unaddressed issues within our marriage.

That's the mind set of many on these threads. There is a lot of good information on these and there is also a lot of bitterness from some who relive their experiences through others, like you.

As I said earlier, we are attempting R. We had/have some major issues to work through and may not ever reap the rewards of this attempt.

I, like you, believe that I have to exhaust every attempt before I can actually walk away. If the day comes and I do walk away..I can do it knowing I gave it my best shot.

I can live with that.


----------



## the guy

I would take my old lady back if it was only 5 hours, but since it has been 5 months I think you need to let your chick know the prison life she will be in for a while.

I can see the both of you getting back together then when you start to trigger or protect your self...emotionally speaking...your chick won't get it.

So take the chance and as soon as she throws "thats why I left the first time " crap in your face I would send her packing.

I think the both of you need to sit down and make it clear on the new hell she is about to endoure if she really wants her marriage back.

Trust is earned, and the price your chick will have to pay may not be the worth the cost once she is back with you.

There is a huge degree of submission from the wayward for R to work.


----------



## the guy

I guess once NC is confirmed then take a chance and R. But I see this going bad cuz the OM lack of security will make it hard to stay away.

I think your chick gets her own place and breaks up with OM and in 5 months the both of you readdress the sitch.


----------



## the guy

Not only does your chick need to R with her marriage, but she needs to R with her self and figure out why she became the person she most likely never wanted to be come.

I'm thinking she needs to fix her self and then fix her marriage.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> lol.
> 
> Stop with the misdirection.
> 
> So... Your the matryr of unconditional love and forgiveness, while these _imaginary people_ your picking a 'civil debate' with are the broken, jaded and souless of the world?
> 
> lol.
> 
> Is this what this conversation looks like inside your head?
> 
> Nice smog.
> 
> Let's be CLEAR for the viewing audience: _everyone here_ believes in reconciliation.
> 
> Just not YOUR version of reconciliation.
> 
> I'm done engaging you... Your not going to listen to anyone.
> 
> Good luck.


"drops the mic, walks away, thinks he came out on top..." 

Well for anyone still listening, not everyone on TAM believes in reconciliation. Really, a lot of people on here say reconciliation is a joke, file for the divorce on D-Day and move on. Just read the site, they're here, that's not questionable.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Ostera said:


> Notdone, When I posted my first thread people were all over me about my W was clearly with another man and banging everyone in town.. When actually she left do to major unaddressed issues within our marriage.
> 
> That's the mind set of many on these threads. There is a lot of good information on these and there is also a lot of bitterness from some who relive their experiences through others, like you.
> 
> As I said earlier, we are attempting R. We had/have some major issues to work through and may not ever reap the rewards of this attempt.
> 
> I, like you, believe that I have to exhaust every attempt before I can actually walk away. If the day comes and I do walk away..I can do it knowing I gave it my best shot.
> 
> I can live with that.


Right on


----------



## Hope1964

NDY, have a read at my story (link in my sig) for some insight on what true R looks like.


----------



## NotDoneYet

the guy said:


> Not only does your chick need to R with her marriage, but she needs to R with her self and figure out why she became the person she most likely never wanted to be come.
> 
> I'm thinking she needs to fix her self and then fix her marriage.


You're totally right. She has some complicated issues she never dealt with, and it's true what they say - you have to be okay with yourself before you can be okay in a relationship. I think we had our honeymoon period which covered those problems, and the honeymoon feeling was reignited when we got married, and again when we got a house...the last year or so hasn't seen any marital milestones to reignite that feeling and mask emotional issues, plus her father passed away, so a bunch of issues resurfaced in the form of this nightmare. (And of course communication issues and marital problems etc., but none of those meant she had to have an affair.)

Definitely before she returns there will be the understanding it's going to be hell


----------



## NotDoneYet

Hope1964 said:


> NDY, have a read at my story (link in my sig) for some insight on what true R looks like.


Thanks, very helpful! Don't get me wrong, I'm very guarded about this. It's just the first time she's started to seem apologetic. Maybe not a turning point, but it's...something.


----------



## the guy

Its not about issues and affair. Its about preventive maintence, and if her own issues can't affair proof her marriage then you will be back in this torture.

If your old lady wants back it is clear that she has to NC OM. Fromwere I'm sitting she is going from OM straight to you. 

My proposal is she goes from OM back to her self and then to you.

A perios of time were she can focus on her self with a goal to get her marriage back.

I sense her behavior is repeating its cycle.....its time that cycle stop and she regroups as an individual with only one man in her sights and that man is her husband.

I think if she learns the tools to #1 prevent adultorus behavior be addressed and # 2 what it will take to make her self happy and not depend on others is a good start for her.

Again she is going from one mans house to another and now back again...what has she learned, what will prevent this from happening again?

So just make sure you both have a long talk on the prison she is about to come home to and the things she must address to get her marriage back.

Do not take her back for all the wrong reasons, but take her back for all the right reasons and that #1 reason is having some reassurance that this will not happen again for your sake and for her sake she will learn the tools to be a happier healthier person for it.


----------



## TRy

NotDoneYet said:


> So I emailed my WW a stern letter announcing I filed for divorce, saying I'd no longer contact her until she ended contact with the OM and agreed to return. That was two days ago. She's since texted me about 30 times begging to come home. This after five months of little to no attention! I'm excited but skeptical. Still haven't sent any response. Any advice on how to proceed?


 Wow, months of cheating behind your back, followed by months of cheating with the affair partner (AP) while having little to no contact with you, followed by her offer to come back to you on a trial basis for a month while not agreeing to end her relationship with her AP, and you are excited that she may want you back? I believe in reconciliation (R), but this is not a situation where R is appropriate. Clearly she does not respect you or your marraige. Clearly she has not shown true remorse. Without true respect and true remorse you cannot get true R. Do not even think about taking her back without her doing the heavy lifting to prove that she is in love with you and will not do this again.

What she did was very cruel. You are young and have no children. You need to really move on with your life. Right now if you take her back this easily, she will cheat again but maybe next time there will be children in the mix to share in the suffering. Why settle for this as being your life? Why make your future children grow up in this unhealthy environment? There is someone out there that will really be in love with you and will never cheat on you. That will want to raise children with you and grow old with you. Studies show that 19% of women have cheated on their husbands. This means that 81% have not cheated on their husbands; find and marry one of them.


----------



## WyshIknew

TRy said:


> Wow, months of cheating behind your back, followed by months of cheating with the affair partner (AP) while having little to no contact with you, followed by her offer to come back to you on a trial basis for a month while not agreeing to end her relationship with her AP, and you are excited that she may want you back? I believe in reconciliation (R), but this is not a situation where R is appropriate. Clearly she does not respect you or your marraige. Clearly she has not shown true remorse. Without true respect and true remorse you cannot get true R. Do not even think about taking her back without her doing the heavy lifting to prove that she is in love with you and will not do this again.
> 
> What she did was very cruel. You are young and have no children. You need to really move on with your life. Right now if you take her back this easily, she will cheat again but maybe next time there will be children in the mix to share in the suffering. Why settle for this as being your life? Why make your future children grow up in this unhealthy environment? There is someone out there that will really be in love with you and will never cheat on you. That will want to raise children with you and grow old with you. Studies show that 19% of women have cheated on their husbands. This means that 81% have not cheated on their husbands; find and marry one of them.


Sorry dude. I know it's not appropriate but this did make me laugh a bit. If you find and marry one of the women who have not cheated on their husbands won't their husbands be upset?


----------



## TRy

WyshIknew said:


> Sorry dude. I know it's not appropriate but this did make me laugh a bit. If you find and marry one of the women who have not cheated on their husbands won't their husbands be upset?


 LOL, taking it literally you got me, but you know what I meant; marry the type of women that makes up the 81% that will not cheat when they marry you.


----------



## life101

You are going to do a soft rugsweep. We are adults here and we need to learn that our actions have consequences. People here are asking you to go ahead with divorce not because they hold a personal vendetta against your wife. They are suggesting this to ensure that if and when you have R, it is the true one and not a false one. 


You think your situation is unique and people here are just hostile to R. Believe me, they are not. We are here on this site for a reason, and without that reason most of us wouldn't even like to read the heartbreaking stories, let alone give suggestions and guidance to strangers even in the face of strong defense mechanism like you have put up.


Take this coming from a BH who gave the XW three chances, all squandered away. And two of those chances were even before we were married. Cheaters follow cheaters' script to a tee and your wife is no exception. You might think she is special. Believe us, she is not.


If she is so remorseful and had a character implant, she should have no trouble going through divorce and starting all over again. If she has truly fallen back in love with you, she would wait. But, if separation now moves her furhter away, then she has not got the love back. Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't love you? No one should be that desperate.


----------



## 3putt

WyshIknew said:


> Sorry dude. I know it's not appropriate but this did make me laugh a bit. If you find and marry one of the women who have not cheated on their husbands won't their husbands be upset?


lulz...I'm afraid that made me laugh more than just a bit.


----------



## WyshIknew

TRy said:


> LOL, taking it literally you got me, but you know what I meant; marry the type of women that makes up the 81% that will not cheat when they marry you.


Yes sorry about that and apologies to op, it's not really a laughing matter.

Yes I did know what you meant, problem is that the wrong 'uns are very good at disguising their real nature, like OP's wife. I know he hopes he can successfully reconcile but he and his wife have a shet load of work to do.

I know my opinion counts for nothing but reading OP's many threads and considering the fact that she has been fecked stupid by OM for at least 5 months I'd be gone, too much respect for myself.


----------



## NotDoneYet

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, because your defenses are high. Until your further posts I didn't know you wanted reconciliation. Clarity is the key, to keep away from this petty bickering we are engaging in.
> 
> It wasn't it was "AHA, if it was titled this way I would have said something different. Gotcha and good luck on your reconciliation I am out."
> 
> No and Right back at you. Since we are giving each other rules, ask a question if you aren't sure what I meant.
> 
> I am not going to derail your thread further. Last word is yours.


You're right, my defenses were high from debating others on here about the merits of reconciliation and from dealing with my WW today. My apologies for the misunderstanding, and I appreciate that you intended to wish me luck.


----------



## NotDoneYet

TRy said:


> Wow, months of cheating behind your back, followed by months of cheating with the affair partner (AP) while having little to no contact with you, followed by her offer to come back to you on a trial basis for a month while not agreeing to end her relationship with her AP, and you are excited that she may want you back? I believe in reconciliation (R), but this is not a situation where R is appropriate. Clearly she does not respect you or your marraige. Clearly she has not shown true remorse. Without true respect and true remorse you cannot get true R. Do not even think about taking her back without her doing the heavy lifting to prove that she is in love with you and will not do this again.
> 
> What she did was very cruel. You are young and have no children. You need to really move on with your life. Right now if you take her back this easily, she will cheat again but maybe next time there will be children in the mix to share in the suffering. Why settle for this as being your life? Why make your future children grow up in this unhealthy environment? There is someone out there that will really be in love with you and will never cheat on you. That will want to raise children with you and grow old with you. Studies show that 19% of women have cheated on their husbands. This means that 81% have not cheated on their husbands; find and marry one of them.


No plans to take her back easily, she's going to work at it. Yeah I'm excited that after so long she's begging for another chance - but I'm not stupid, and I won't take her back unless she works for it. After five months of making me feel worthless she'll need to grovel for five years. I'm not taking her back unless she has a true understanding of and remorse for the damage she's done.


----------



## Kasler

You should read Carlton's thread, and see what giving futile chances gets you.


----------



## jameskimp

NotDoneYet said:


> I gave her a list of things she has to do, and she cannot waiver on one of them. Also made it clear this process will take a long time. I have several books I'll ask her to read, including one on how to help a betrayed spouse heal.
> 
> I appreciate your understanding, Wazza. A lot of people on here are too quick to treat someone who wants to reconcile like an idiot. I'm no idiot, I know I very likely stand to be hurt again. But I want to be thoroughly sure the well is dry before I leave so I leave with no regrets. Trust me, I'll drop her like a bad habit if she falters. Life's too short to keep going through this ****.


The only regret you'll have is taking her back.

She did everything under the sun with this 27 year old virgin and if you say he was a loser, then what does that make you?

She should be begging you on her knees for you to even consider being in the same room as her. 

Did you date and move on in those 5 months? Did you fix yourself? 

You know what life's really too short for? Looking at the person who betrayed you in the most vilest way for the rest of your life.


----------



## JCD

NotDoneYet said:


> Right now we are both out of work and living in different cities. I quit my job three weeks ago because I'm planning to transfer and don't know when I'll start the new job. She hasn't got a job yet since she moved in December. We'll both be starting in a new city together if she does come back, so being in new city with little money will be tough. I'd definitely prefer to live separately and am exploring the options, but realistically we may had to get a place together. Right now she's 7 hours away so commuting to meet each other isn't an option


There are 25 or so factors in female infidelity.

One of them is moving to a new place (she wants to 'cleave' with new people...and offering sex is a hell of a way to introduce yourself...single female chimps do it when they want to join a band)

The other is fiscal pressures.

May I suggest that while it might seem like 'clean slate' stuff, it will make things more, not less difficult.


----------



## NotDoneYet

life101 said:


> You are going to do a soft rugsweep. We are adults here and we need to learn that our actions have consequences. People here are asking you to go ahead with divorce not because they hold a personal vendetta against your wife. They are suggesting this to ensure that if and when you have R, it is the true one and not a false one.
> 
> 
> You think your situation is unique and people here are just hostile to R. Believe me, they are not. We are here on this site for a reason, and without that reason most of us wouldn't even like to read the heartbreaking stories, let alone give suggestions and guidance to strangers even in the face of strong defense mechanism like you have put up.
> 
> 
> Take this coming from a BH who gave the XW three chances, all squandered away. And two of those chances were even before we were married. Cheaters follow cheaters' script to a tee and your wife is no exception. You might think she is special. Believe us, she is not.
> 
> 
> If she is so remorseful and had a character implant, she should have no trouble going through divorce and starting all over again. If she has truly fallen back in love with you, she would wait. But, if separation now moves her furhter away, then she has not got the love back. Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't love you? No one should be that desperate.


Didn't realize I have so many people on here who know me personally. I'm going to do a soft rugsweep...I think my situation is unique... Trust me, I'm listening to every bit of advice on here and using plenty of it. Give advice without purporting to know what I, a total stranger you've never met, am going to do. Read me loud and clear: I'm done with this bull**** affair.

I filed for the divorce, and sure it took me four months but had I done it any earlier, it would've been a bluff. I did it when I was ready, it is no bluff. Some of the people are saying to divorce to ensure a true R, sure, but fact: many, many people are against R and are telling me to "divorce and drop the *****."

I don't think my wife is a special case. Even did a post stating exactly that. And I don't want her if she doesn't love me. Finally had enough of her saying she loved me but acting like she didn't, so I filed and I'm ready to go. 

I appreciate and welcome all the advice, but we should remember we don't know each other. We can't cobble together a few forum posts and prognosticate a complete stranger's future actions.


----------



## JCD

NotDoneYet said:


> She has agreed to not contacting him, therapy, answering questions...the others hasn't disagreed, just I haven't been responding to her yet so I don't know. Don't have a car so I can't track her that way, but I'm definitely putting software on her phone & computer (without her knowledge of course).
> 
> When she fails...depends on what she failed at, and to what degree. Slight infraction, I'm not sure what I'd do yet. But if she contacts him I'm inclined to give her the boot permanently.
> 
> Oh yes I know, remorseful means believing it was a mistake, groveling, being willing to do anything.


See...this is what I mean. You are already making excuses for when she does...something.

For example: He contacts her and she sends back a 'we're through' text or email which she doesn't tell you about. "Well...she said exactly what I would want her to say..."

I think you would be wrong.

I understand your understanding of her still having feelings with the OM. But NC means NC.


----------



## GutPunch

This is brutal to read. Best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

NotDoneYet said:


> I think my situation is unique...
> 
> I don't think my wife is a special case.
> 
> We can't cobble together a few forum posts and prognosticate a complete stranger's future actions.


Actually, human behavior is very predictable in general, and affairs in particular. Both the betrayed spouse and the cheater. 

As soon as you got tough with your wife, she came running. Very predictable stuff. Not unique.

If you take your wife back too easily, with too few consequences, she will lose respect for you. She treated you very cruelly, now she wants to come back and you're immediately up for it. Remember, it was the toughness that made her want you. Make it clear to her who's in charge and let her know where the door is if she doesn't like it.

I know that's what you said you would do, but while your current words are tough, your past scream doormat. Now maybe it is true that your "give-a-shyt" just broke so now you have a whole new outlook where you're not going to put up with her shyt anymore. If so, good for you.

These posters, by and large, are pro-reconciliation, but they also are pro-self esteem and anti-doormat. They don't want you to make the same mistakes they made.

Good luck and stay tough.


----------



## NotDoneYet

WyshIknew said:


> Yes sorry about that and apologies to op, it's not really a laughing matter.
> 
> Yes I did know what you meant, problem is that the wrong 'uns are very good at disguising their real nature, like OP's wife. I know he hopes he can successfully reconcile but he and his wife have a shet load of work to do.
> 
> I know my opinion counts for nothing but reading OP's many threads and considering the fact that she has been fecked stupid by OM for at least 5 months I'd be gone, too much respect for myself.


So...I don't respect myself? Wow, another one who knows me personally! I hear a lot about men who stick around through affairs not having self respect. True in some cases, not in all bud.


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## NotDoneYet

JCD said:


> See...this is what I mean. You are already making excuses for when she does...something.
> 
> For example: He contacts her and she sends back a 'we're through' text or email which she doesn't tell you about. "Well...she said exactly what I would want her to say..."
> 
> I think you would be wrong.
> 
> I understand your understanding of her still having feelings with the OM. But NC means NC.


That's total supposition. You made that situation and my hypothetical response up yourself. NC means NC, if he contacts her she stonewalls him, I agree.


----------



## NotDoneYet

2asdf2 said:


> NDY:
> 
> I can't understand why the opinion of the "ditch her" posters upsets you so much, and why you can't, simply, ignore them.
> 
> Is there a reason for that?


Because that's black and white thinking and real life's in the grey.


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## krismimo

WOW


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## NotDoneYet

Will_Kane said:


> Actually, human behavior is very predictable in general, and affairs in particular. Both the betrayed spouse and the cheater.
> 
> As soon as you got tough with your wife, she came running. Very predictable stuff. Not unique.
> 
> If you take your wife back too easily, with too few consequences, she will lose respect for you. She treated you very cruelly, now she wants to come back and you're immediately up for it. Remember, it was the toughness that made her want you. Make it clear to her who's in charge and let her know where the door is if she doesn't like it.
> 
> I know that's what you said you would do, but while your current words are tough, your past scream doormat. Now maybe it is true that your "give-a-shyt" just broke so now you have a whole new outlook where you're not going to put up with her shyt anymore. If so, good for you.
> 
> These posters, by and large, are pro-reconciliation, but they also are pro-self esteem and anti-doormat. They don't want you to make the same mistakes they made.
> 
> Good luck and stay tough.


Thanks Will. Your posts are insightful and level-headed. Yes, my give-a-shyt done broke. Definitely was a doormat, but anyone who's been through this should know it changes you. You can't look at people's posts from 4 months ago and properly guess how they'll react today. I'm thankful to have learned the lessons and made the self-improvements this affair has forced upon me - just wish I could've learned them another way!

EDIT: Also should say I'm not immediately up for it. I was just surprised she responded so quickly and wanted to talk to someone about it.


----------



## JCD

Be mad. Accuse us of...whatever.

Some of us have been following your many MANY threads. So yes, you are right. All we have to go on is what you tell us. We see how you react to things. How you address your problems with your wife.

So if you are unhappy with how we are 'reading' you, blame yourself, because as stated, you have been shaking that olive branch at your wife so damn many times that the leaves have all fallen off.

This is just an arc on that same continuum. You've shown some growth but your communications *as you have quoted them* have been...welcoming on the cheap, including this one.

So while cheaters tend to be the same, our assessment has little to do with her, egregious and disrespectful cheater that she is. ( She actually had the sand to offer to share herself? Wow!).

Our assessment of your R attempts has everything to do with YOU. You are tough guy posturing. That's new. I'd be a lot more impressed if you hadn't weakened your divorce statement with the subtext "PLEASE, I'll drop the divorce if ONLY you'll stop seeing that man'.

That is needy and not tough guy.

See rookie04 thread. See fishdoc's thread. Both of them were tough guys. One got the R he wanted. The other knew when to fish and cut bait, leaving the offal behind.


----------



## WyshIknew

NotDoneYet said:


> So...I don't respect myself? Wow, another one who knows me personally! I hear a lot about men who stick around through affairs not having self respect. True in some cases, not in all bud.


Look dude, I understand that people view respect in different ways, and I can respect someone who can reconcile with their spouse, it can't be easy.

But you are the guy who has amassed 22 posts detailing all the ways in which your seemingly moralless wife has systematically shet on you and shet on your marriage since August last year.

22 posts and at least 6 months in which OM has banged her all ends up and filled her full of his jizz.

You get all p1ssy with people here telling you that a wife who has been humping OM while stringing you along for 6 months is a slvt and you should think very carefully about about divorcing her. Why? They are merely offering the advice you asked for.

Instead of directing your frustration and anger at people trying to help you you should be directing your anger and frustration at the two people who need it, OM and his cum receptacle.

Get angry and frustrated with them not us. Unlike them, everyone here has your best interest at heart and wants you to move on successfully in life.


----------



## Shaggy

Ndy, consider this. Your cheating wife who has given herself by choice to another man for more than half a year, is thinking she can return pan B, the same old you.

This is her expectation, she also believes you will take her back with a few token rules, but you will cave on them. After all your accepting her back after she was another mans willing sex toy for half a year or more. So she has expectations of returning to a doormat who will make some noise but cave.

The question is , is she correct - that is your decision.

I will point out, it was the doormat version of you she chose to cheat on.


----------



## NotDoneYet

JCD said:


> Be mad. Accuse us of...whatever.
> 
> Some of us have been following your many MANY threads. So yes, you are right. All we have to go on is what you tell us. We see how you react to things. How you address your problems with your wife.
> 
> So if you are unhappy with how we are 'reading' you, blame yourself, because as stated, you have been shaking that olive branch at your wife so damn many times that the leaves have all fallen off.
> 
> This is just an arc on that same continuum. You've shown some growth but your communications *as you have quoted them* have been...welcoming on the cheap, including this one.
> 
> So while cheaters tend to be the same, our assessment has little to do with her, egregious and disrespectful cheater that she is. ( She actually had the sand to offer to share herself? Wow!).
> 
> Our assessment of your R attempts has everything to do with YOU. You are tough guy posturing. That's new. I'd be a lot more impressed if you hadn't weakened your divorce statement with the subtext "PLEASE, I'll drop the divorce if ONLY you'll stop seeing that man'.
> 
> That is needy and not tough guy.
> 
> See rookie04 thread. See fishdoc's thread. Both of them were tough guys. One got the R he wanted. The other knew when to fish and cut bait, leaving the offal behind.


Never told her I'd drop the divorce, I said I'd talk to her again if she ceased contact with OM. Not out to impress you or anyone else. In past communications, I've been welcoming on the cheap. This time - as I said - I haven't responded to her.

As stated before, I was a doormat. Agreed. But anyone who's been through this should recognize it changes you tremendously. So to anyone looking at my old posts and trying to guess what I'll do from that...I'm not looking for what you'll think I'll do. Just looking for advice for where I'm at right now.


----------



## NotDoneYet

WyshIknew said:


> Look dude, I understand that people view respect in different ways, and I can respect someone who can reconcile with their spouse, it can't be easy.
> 
> But you are the guy who has amassed 22 posts detailing all the ways in which your seemingly moralless wife has systematically shet on you and shet on your marriage since August last year.
> 
> 22 posts and at least 6 months in which OM has banged her all ends up and filled her full of his jizz.
> 
> You get all p1ssy with people here telling you that a wife who has been humping OM while stringing you along for 6 months is a slvt and you should think very carefully about about divorcing her. Why? They are merely offering the advice you asked for.
> 
> Instead of directing your frustration and anger at people trying to help you you should be directing your anger and frustration at the two people who need it, OM and his cum receptacle.
> 
> Get angry and frustrated with them not us. Unlike them, everyone here has your best interest at heart and wants you to move on successfully in life.


I'm only getting pissy with the people who are framing their advice disrespectfully or supposing to know how I'll react. All others, I'm listening and responding gratefully whether I agree with them or not.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Shaggy said:


> Ndy, consider this. Your cheating wife who has given herself by choice to another man for more than half a year, is thinking she can return pan B, the same old you.
> 
> This is her expectation, she also believes you will take her back with a few token rules, but you will cave on them. After all your accepting her back after she was another mans willing sex toy for half a year or more. So she has expectations of returning to a doormat who will make some noise but cave.
> 
> The question is , is she correct - that is your decision.
> 
> I will point out, it was the doormat version of you she chose to cheat on.


The doormat is dead. No part of me is willing to go through this again.


----------



## JCD

NotDoneYet said:


> Never told her I'd drop the divorce, I said I'd talk to her again if she ceased contact with OM. Not out to impress you or anyone else. In past communications, I've been welcoming on the cheap. This time - as I said - I haven't responded to her.
> 
> As stated before, I was a doormat. Agreed. But anyone who's been through this should recognize it changes you tremendously. So to anyone looking at my old posts and trying to guess what I'll do from that...I'm not looking for what you'll think I'll do. Just looking for advice for where I'm at right now.


Ah. You want us to ignore your history, figureing every day is a new clean slate.

Is that what you are hoping from your wife, or are you going to use her prior actions to inform how you look at her now?


----------



## NotDoneYet

JCD said:


> Ah. You want us to ignore your history, figureing every day is a new clean slate.
> 
> Is that what you are hoping from your wife, or are you going to use her prior actions to inform how you look at her now?


Of course her prior actions inform how I look at her now. But I know her personally and have for years.

Read my posts and guess what I'll try to do - why? Sure, you're basing your guesses on my communications as I've quoted them, so maybe I should be more thorough to ensure your guesses are more correct. I'd write the minute-by-minute account of the last six months of my life to give you the complete picture, and throw in the rest of my autobiography, but since that's not possible let's just agree it's asinine to tell a complete stranger what he'll do tomorrow based on some posts he made on the internet.

If you don't agree, here's something that's not debatable: I'm looking for advice regarding where I'm at now, not for your predictions of what I'll do in the future.


----------



## WyshIknew

NotDoneYet said:


> The doormat is dead. No part of me is willing to go through this again.


This is good news. Never be a doormat again.


----------



## krismimo

HI not done yet, 

I just read your thread. And I know you want to reconcile with your wife and that is a great thing except... If I may say this without trying to be rude... "She's just not that into you." (Seriously). People will treat you a certain way that YOU allow them to. As a woman I can sincerely tell you that your wife looks at you as a meal ticket (at best) she thinks of you as weak. You are Plan B. Because if you were plan A then you wouldn't be here in the first place. 

Another thing to consider Not is that although you might not agree with some of the people here in HOW they may say things to you but the message is still the same. This smells like a false R and the reason why some are so hard on you is because it can be a painful thing when a man thinks his wife has his best intentions at heart in R but she is only trying to make him feel better for a short period of time. 

I think your thinking about this with your heart on your sleeve you're not really SEEING what you are saying here.Earlier on in your thread when you wrote what you said to your wife the first thing I thought was oh she is not going to take him seriously your still pleading with her, the guys were right you should have just gone through the D proceedings, stayed to yourself, and let her come to you and see what she offers, shes the one that messed up she has to PROVE that she is not only sorry but that she loves you, and respects you as a man and as her husband.

What is so disconcerting about this whole situation is that through all of this you are still letting her decide even after she chose the other man and moved in with him for almost half a year. Think about that HALF A YEAR?! While she is married to you. Your wife is acting this way because she KNOWS she can get away with it. It's exactly what another poster said if you can't draw boundaries with your wife then don't go back with her. 

This is not just about cheating this is about respecting each others boundaries. She has no respect for you as a husband and although you are "trying" to put your foot down it may be too little too late. In my honest humble opinion you are going about this all wrong you have to change your way of thinking if you want a fraction of chance of getting your wife back.


----------



## Kasler

NotDoneYet said:


> The doormat is dead. No part of me is willing to go through this again.


Thats yet to be seen. 

Look, this is kinda harsh, but you're not really in the best position to be judging yourself. 

You can say a lot of things, but doormat NDY is still there. A bit buried, but you can't change that fast, hes still there. With familiarity, sex, and fear you could be caving a month after she comes back. 

Carlton also realized this. So many times he tried to R with his wife, so many times everyone told him exactly what would happen. He learned how to deal with that previous version of himself and acknowledges.

Thats why I'm worried for you. 

you've been a doormat, and technically you still are. You're trying to change that, but you need to acknowledge your past, and acknowledge that when you let her back those old beta feelings and mindsets WILL come to your mind, make no mistake about that. 

If you go into this thinking you're completely in control(when actually, SHE IS as shes the one who got to have her 6 month sex filled hiatus from marriage and whether you admit it or not, is waltzing back into it at her discretion, and all she had to do was turn on the emotions) then she is gonna pull your heartstrings, invoke the old NDY, and eat you alive.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Dad&Hubby said:


> NotDoneYet.
> 
> This is your opportunity to do a couple things.
> 
> 1. Get your manhood and control back
> 
> 2. AFTER you feel that control and build up your self esteem. THEN decide if you want her.
> 
> Here's what you do.
> 1. Finalize the divorce. Let your wife know, her moving out killed the "old marriage". If you two ever have a marriage again, it will be new. She ended the old marriage and you want no part of it.
> 
> 2. Take some time for yourself. Date some other women. Do things JUST FOR YOU. Tell your STBXW this as well. Tell her she treated you like crap and you want to see what else is out there. AND DO IT. This isn't to rub your wife's nose in it. It's for YOU to realize YOU HAVE VALUE.
> 
> 3. After you've met some women, THEN decide if your wife TRULY was this amazing person.
> 
> 4. Tell your wife if she wants ANY chance to win you back, it's her turn to remain committed while YOU go see what's out there. If she can show you that she can commit to you during this period of time, then MAYBE she has a chance to earn your trust and you two can start DATING again and see where it goes.





NotDoneYet said:


> I can see the value in going through with the divorce and remarrying, but not in seeing other women. That'll only breed contempt in the new marriage.


Because you're missing the point.

There's a difference in R's between a BS and a WS when the WS is caught, drops the A "immediately" (relatively speaking) with how you need to go about an R where the WS moves out for 5 months. In the first situation, the WS never chose one partner versus the other (in their convoluted perceptions). In your situation, your WW CHOSE someone else and dropped you like a sack of old potatoes. Because of this your approach needs to be different.

Your WW has to learn that what she did was COMPLETELY and UTTERLY wrong. Her leaving for 5 months and then "begging and pleading" she gets back with you doesn't teach her this. The divorce being finalized and the marriage being DONE. Is part of the lesson that teaches her this. Her realizing that she COULD POSSIBLY truly lose you (by seeing you with other options), that would be lesson 2.That she can TRULY lose you. It won't breed contempt because you're missing the whole point. (and if it does, then she's not doing what's necessary and taking accountability for her actions). She didn't JUST CHEAT. She left. She is seeing you as a Plan B Cuckhold. There hasn't been any TRUE consequences if you welcome her back. For there to be TRUE R. She has to accept what she did and also accept the consequences.

The reason why the entire list is so important for YOU and ONLY YOU (this isn't about HER in anyway any more). Is the following
1. It shows YOU that you have value and will build up your self esteem. Please don't tell me how confident and secure you are. Having your wife dump you and bolt off will shake ANY PERSON'S CONFIDENCE.
2. It cleans YOUR SLATE. It gives you a fresh start. If you have a course in a meal that tastes AWFUL, and then go immediately into the next course...that will be awful too because of carry over. You need to clean your palate. Distancing yourself from her, and pursuing other options IS that cleaning. IF afterwards you choose to go back with her, you'll be a new man, not the plan b cuckhold like you are now.
3. You MIGHT actually meet someone better, that you love more. You MIGHT meet someone who won't cheat on you and dump you because they see you as worthless. You MIGHT find someone who cherishes your love instead of wiping their a$$ with it and flushing it down the toilet. 

I can tell by your responses, your wife will be back with you. No other option exists in the back of your mind, and I'm sorry for that. Because of that, I'm sure it will happen again. I truly HOPE that you open your mind to this mentality. Your wife will always see you as weak and low in the hierarchy of the pack. But you will get 6 months to a couple years of joy during her, "I'm glad he took me back" phase. But you've done nothing to increase your value in her mind since the day she cheated. You're still the same person in her mind. So why won't she do it again.


----------



## Ovid

I can't advise you on how to R simply because this is one of those cases where I just wouldn't R ever. I've seen your previous post, as well as this one. I just can't see any way for this to work. I hope things work out for you, and wish you the best, but my opinion is that your WW is broken. Good luck.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

NotDoneYet said:


> I've told her I can handle that she has feelings for him -* naturally if she comes back, she can't turn them off like a switch *- IF she's working to eliminate those feelings and never acts on them. This means of course therapy and understanding the roots of why she cheated, and getting to see that it wasn't really love but a drug. If she acts on the feeling again - life's too short, goodbye.


And right there is where this will fail.

YOU DON'T TAKE HER BACK UNTIL THOSE FEELINGS ARE DEAD. You DON'T TAKE HER BACK UNTIL HER ONLY FEELINGS ARE FOR YOU!!

I'm sorry if you think I'm being harsh. I'm not. My ex wife cheated on me for 3 years, the last 1.5 years of the marriage was sexless (for me anyways) and 3 weeks before the divorce is finalized, she asks me to meet her for coffee and talks reconciliation. I took her to task and called her out on why she wants R (ps yes I was dating someone else at that point having been gone for 9 months). For the first time in our marriage she says "yeah your right, I'd probably cheat on you, maybe we can have an open marriage where we stay together for the kids, but don't have to deal with each other" :rofl:

Now I'm INCREDIBLY happily married (with another child) to an AMAZING woman...TRULY amazing. My wife, every 3-4 months, says "What the heck is wrong with your ex...how could any woman ever let you go." And I agree with her. I'm a DAMN good husband father partner and lover and she's lucky to have me. I'm not saying that to be ****y. I'm saying it because its true. I give my wife 100% of my soul and being, but those payments aren't cheap.


----------



## John2012

Kasler said:


> Thats yet to be seen.
> 
> Look, this is kinda harsh, but you're not really in the best position to be judging yourself.
> 
> You can say a lot of things, but doormat NDY is still there. A bit buried, but you can't change that fast, hes still there. With familiarity, sex, and fear you could be caving a month after she comes back.
> 
> Carlton also realized this. So many times he tried to R with his wife, so many times everyone told him exactly what would happen. He learned how to deal with that previous version of himself and acknowledges.
> 
> Thats why I'm worried for you.
> 
> you've been a doormat, and technically you still are. You're trying to change that, but you need to acknowledge your past, and acknowledge that when you let her back those old beta feelings and mindsets WILL come to your mind, make no mistake about that.
> 
> If you go into this thinking you're completely in control(when actually, SHE IS as shes the one who got to have her 6 month sex filled hiatus from marriage and whether you admit it or not, is waltzing back into it at her discretion, and all she had to do was turn on the emotions) then she is gonna pull your heartstrings, invoke the old NDY, and eat you alive.


I'm with Kasler on this. Yes, the doormat character will be coming back soon to you. I know you said that next time this happens, you'll kick her but why to wait for her next time, when we all know it is going to happen?? Just be in her shoes, what will you do once the dust settles down??


----------



## ArmyofJuan

NotDoneYet said:


> Yes I'm willing to give it one more shot. I'd rather give it a second chance and fail than end it and wonder forever if I should've tried again.


But you won't wonder this.

You never hear people say they regret divorcing their cheating spouse but you do hear some say they regret giving them a second chance.

I used this excuse as well. I got 2 false Rs out of it.




> Making a mistake? There are plenty of stories on here of successful reconciliation. Don't get me wrong, I know my odds are slim. But I'd rather take those odds and be betrayed again than leave with any regrets. Forgiveness is strength, my friend.


You can forgive without reconciling.

I did reconcile, my W moved in with the OM twice (I had 2 false Rs). Third time was the charm. I’ve been in R for 3 years now.

Why did the third time work?

Because I didn’t want to R and she hated the OM by then (even though she had been living with him for about 4 months). She had filed for a D a few months back (wish I had in hindsight) and I was pushing to get it finalized (I was dating again and pissed at my W finally) but she was resisting. She eventually wore me down and I took her back because it seemed like the easiest choice. After a year and a half of going back and forth I didn’t have the energy to go through with the D. 

Our M is better than it was before and I trust her again because I have no problem leaving if she even thinks about doing something wrong and she knows it. In hindsight, I think my life would had been better if I went with the D. I had to sacrifice a big part of my dignity to R after giving her so many chances. Your W can become the perfect W from now on but she will never be able to take back what she did and you have to live with yourself for taking back someone that cheated on you. It might look like a good idea today but later on when the dust settles you may end up regretting it.

I made my bed and I am sticking with it but I don't always think I made the right choice for me. My W needs me more than I need her even though I didn't think that back then.

Whatever you do, do it slowly. Give yourself time to adjust and every day ask yourself: Why you want her back? Are you afraid to be alone? Are you co-dependent? What are you getting out of this?


----------



## Chaparral

I would not drop the divorce until the very last day or very very close to it. Use it as a timeline for your R. Counting down the days and marking progress and also failures in actions.

I think this would give added protection to you and see if she can carry that load. 

You need a plan that you both agree to and stick to it. Other wise you will fail or continue to struggle. 

What books have you read and what books are you planning on her reading. Give her the books and have a deadline for reading them. Do not accept laziness from either of you.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

NotDoneYet said:


> Yes I'm willing to give it one more shot. I'd rather give it a second chance and fail than end it and wonder forever if I should've tried again.
> 
> There are those that would say she had a second chance, third chance etc. over the last few months...sorry I see this as one long episode. And knowing her troubled past and absolute disdain for counselors, the fact she's willingly agreed to counseling tells me something's possibly changed. I'd kick myself for not trying, and if she does cheat again - well, kicking her out would be a lot easier having been through this already.


Jumping in here. I really think you need to think this through. Is she worth a second chance? She chose him over you for months and now that you have filed for divorce, she decides to choose you over him? Does she have so little respect for you that it wasn't until a divorce filing that she realized she no longer had control ... that she could lose you and it wouldn't be her decision? I can't imagine the pain you must be feeling and I respect the fact that you want to do anything you can to make this work out ... but given everything she's done to you, is she worth it? Do you have the confidence to believe that eventually you will find someone who will not treat you this way? Someone who will value your relationship and have enough respect for you and themselves to not do something like this. A relationship with mutual love and respect. I think everybody under the right circumstances is capable of cheating. A lot of people simply do not allow themselves to be in a situation where that is a possibility. I know it is extraordinarily difficult but I think I could forgive (without really forgetting) but most of that depends on how they respond after the mistake is made. How a person responds is what reveals their true character. IMO, she has revealed her true character and she is not someone I would want to continue having in my life.


----------



## badmemory

NotDoneYet,

I've got to hand it to you. You hung in there yesterday amongst an onslaught of advice you don't agree with. You kept posting. Most in your situation would have turned tail and not returned. I hope you continue posting, because even if it's unlikely that you'll have a successful R, if you do, I'd love to read about it.

I will give you the perspective of a BS in R, who's wife was for all practical purposes, as bad as yours. No, she didn't leave me for him, but she wanted to. She tried to convince him to make a choice between his wife or her, but she continued the affair with him even though he wouldn't leave his wife (her best friend). She would have left me in a heartbeat if he had. But he dumped her when I found out about it - after two years of cheating with him. I'm continuing my marriage with her, knowing she attempted an exit affair and I was her plan B.

I didn't find TAM until about 8 months into R. If I had found it earlier, I probably would have received the same advice you're getting. Given that advice, I may have decided not to take her back, but I'm not sure. 

Fact is, when I did find TAM, even that far along in R, many still couldn't believe my lack of self respect for attempting it; even with a completely (so far) remorseful spouse. But I, like you, didn't want to give up on my 23 year marriage without giving R at least a shot. I wanted no regrets for not trying.

Let's look at the best case scenario. Let's say your wife comes back and is completely remorseful - like mine has been. She does the heavy lifting, she's transparent, loving, sex is good, she's a joy to be with. I'll suggest that even in that scenario your life will never be the same. You'll have mind movies, doubts, occasional regrets, suspicions, bouts of low self esteem, and there will always be that lingering hurt that just won't seem to go away. You may even get to the point where you wish that your wife would "mess up" so you could better justify ending it.

Having said that however, there is a chance that your R will be successful. A chance that your life with this now, remorseful and motivated spouse will be better than without her. No one on this board can help you make that decision better than you. 

I believe the chances of you having a successful R are small. I would have been told the same thing right after I caught my wife - and rightly so. If you do R, you should realize those odds. You should realize the hurt you will still endure. If you do, and still want to go forward, then more power to you. 

But be true to yourself from now on. Draw a line in the sand, and this time, don't allow her to cross it. And remember that even if she stays remorseful, no one could blame you for leaving her at any point down the line, after you at least attempted to save your marriage.

That where I'm at after 17 months of R. I currently think my life is better now with her, than it would have been without her. But I have no illusions of permanency, and I probably never will.

Keep posting, absorb the advice, then do what "you" think is best for you. I wish you the best - whatever decision you make.


----------



## bandit.45

Your wife treats your marriage like a convenience mart. The market is getting ready to close and now she's faced with having to drive into town to get her groceries. 

You are a convenience to her...nothing more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

Dad&Hubby said:


> Because you're missing the point.
> 
> There's a difference in R's between a BS and a WS when the WS is caught, drops the A "immediately" (relatively speaking) with how you need to go about an R where the WS moves out for 5 months. In the first situation, the WS never chose one partner versus the other (in their convoluted perceptions). In your situation, your WW CHOSE someone else and dropped you like a sack of old potatoes. Because of this your approach needs to be different.
> 
> *Your WW has to learn that what she did was COMPLETELY and UTTERLY wrong*. Her leaving for 5 months and then "begging and pleading" she gets back with you doesn't teach her this. The divorce being finalized and the marriage being DONE. Is part of the lesson that teaches her this. Her realizing that she COULD POSSIBLY truly lose you (by seeing you with other options), that would be lesson 2.That she can TRULY lose you. It won't breed contempt because you're missing the whole point. (and if it does, then she's not doing what's necessary and taking accountability for her actions). She didn't JUST CHEAT. She left. She is seeing you as a Plan B Cuckhold. There hasn't been any TRUE consequences if you welcome her back. For there to be TRUE R. She has to accept what she did and also accept the consequences.
> 
> The reason why the entire list is so important for YOU and ONLY YOU (this isn't about HER in anyway any more). Is the following
> 1. It shows YOU that you have value and will build up your self esteem. Please don't tell me how confident and secure you are. Having your wife dump you and bolt off will shake ANY PERSON'S CONFIDENCE.
> 2. It cleans YOUR SLATE. It gives you a fresh start. If you have a course in a meal that tastes AWFUL, and then go immediately into the next course...that will be awful too because of carry over. You need to clean your palate. Distancing yourself from her, and pursuing other options IS that cleaning. IF afterwards you choose to go back with her, you'll be a new man, not the plan b cuckhold like you are now.
> 3. You MIGHT actually meet someone better, that you love more. You MIGHT meet someone who won't cheat on you and dump you because they see you as worthless. You MIGHT find someone who cherishes your love instead of wiping their a$$ with it and flushing it down the toilet.
> 
> I can tell by your responses, your wife will be back with you. No other option exists in the back of your mind, and I'm sorry for that. Because of that, I'm sure it will happen again. I truly HOPE that you open your mind to this mentality. *Your wife will always see you as weak and low in the hierarchy of the pack. But you will get 6 months to a couple years of joy during her, "I'm glad he took me back" phase. But you've done nothing to increase your value in her mind since the day she cheated. You're still the same person in her mind. So why won't she do it again.*


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Specially the bolded parts.
You are thinking only short term.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

NotDoneYet said:


> *No, he definitely didn't dump her. He's a very needy, insecure person who's 27 and never had a girlfriend.*




Funniest thing I read on TAM.
:rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


But I dont think that he is as much as needy or insecure as you.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

That was an interesting game, but I'm done playing.

Random thoughts on the exercise...

There was no decision. It's obvious there never was.

What was going to happen was already pre-determined. Yet, curiously the dialogue here continued?.

Conclusion...

The subject authoring this thread is playing on his audience to meet a need. 

This whole thread and the exchanges in it were orchestrated and manipulated along a storyline. The subject is seeking external stimuli, in this case by manufacturing conflict. 

This obviously provides an internal motivation source for him. 

Perhaps, the subject was experiencing some internal reluctance and needed a push.

In which case, he's found it. Now he's out to prove everyone wrong. 

Well played.


----------



## Jasel

Despite all the constructive criticism I don't think he cared much for, I hope Not keeps us updated.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> That was an interesting game, but I'm done playing.
> 
> Random thoughts on the exercise...
> 
> There was no decision. It's obvious there never was.
> 
> What was going to happen was already pre-determined. Yet, curiously the dialogue here continued?.
> 
> Conclusion...
> 
> The subject authoring this thread is playing on his audience to meet a need.
> 
> This whole thread and the exchanges in it were orchestrated and manipulated along a storyline. The subject is seeking external stimuli, in this case by manufacturing conflict.
> 
> This obviously provides an internal motivation source for him.
> 
> Perhaps, the subject was experiencing some internal reluctance and needed a push.
> 
> In which case, he's found it. Now he's out to prove everyone wrong.
> 
> Well played.


Agreed


----------



## John2012

Jasel said:


> Despite all the constructive criticism I don't think he cared much for, I hope Not keeps us updated.


He will be back !!! Let's gear up for the next session !!!


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

You know divorce doesn't have to end the relationship, at the end of the day it is just a legal status (obviously that's the way she views it.) A divorce does not mean you have failed. Proceed with the divorce and complete it. Do NOT allow her to move back in. Once the divorce is complete and if you think she is still worth it then ask her out on a date and try to build the relationship as if you were never married. You may at that point have a completely different perspective and decide you have better options ... or you might both fall in love all over again. A lot of people here talk about treating the old marriage before D-Day as if it was dead and treating the R as a new marriage. That is symbolic. Make it real.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Jasel said:


> Despite all the constructive criticism I don't think he cared much for, I hope Not keeps us updated.


What update?

She is banging his head out and he is in cloud nine.


----------



## sharkeey

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Let's be CLEAR for the viewing audience: _everyone here_ believes in reconciliation.
> 
> Just not YOUR version of reconciliation.


Where do you get that crazy idea from?

I sure don't believe in reconciliation and would never forgive a cheater- although once in a while I read a story where there just might be a chance, usually posted by the cheater whose betrayed spouse is strong enough to show them the door as soon as the affair came to light. 

In this case, I don't think reconciliation is a viable option nor do many others posting on this thread who ARE pro reconciliation on other threads with more positive aspects. 



NotDoneYet said:


> Never told her I'd drop the divorce, I said I'd talk to her again if she ceased contact with OM.


Dude you're being defensive and playing with words, and as many others have suggested we're here to help not attack you, you're directing your anger and frustrations at the wrong people.



NotDoneYet said:


> So I emailed my WW a stern letter announcing I filed for divorce, saying I'd no longer contact her until she ended contact with the OM and agreed to return.


Your message to your wife was clear, regardless of the exact words you used. You'll drop the divorce if she stops talking to OM and AGREES TO RETURN HOME. Period.

That's weak, ineffective and will only work against you.

At least be honest with yourself, otherwise you're sabotaging your own efforts. And you're the only one who is going to get hurt here.

You've got a "possible" chance at reconciliation, but you're going to blow it unless you get really strong and stay that way even if you have to fake it.


----------



## TRy

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> You know divorce doesn't have to end the relationship, at the end of the day it is just a legal status (obviously that's the way she views it.) A divorce does not mean you have failed. Proceed with the divorce and complete it. Do NOT allow her to move back in. Once the divorce is complete and if you think she is still worth it then ask her out on a date and try to build the relationship as if you were never married. You may at that point have a completely different perspective and decide you have better options ... or you might both fall in love all over again. A lot of people here talk about treating the old marriage before D-Day as if it was dead and treating the R as a new marriage. That is symbolic. Make it real.


 Good post. As a case in point there is someone on this very site (Rookie4) that just recently divorced his wife after her affair and they are now dating again. Their relationship is now better than it ever was even before the affair. He just posted about it today. Again it is on this very site, here is the link:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/66211-affair-past-tense.html


----------



## NotDoneYet

Kasler said:


> Thats yet to be seen.
> 
> Look, this is kinda harsh, but you're not really in the best position to be judging yourself.
> 
> You can say a lot of things, but doormat NDY is still there. A bit buried, but you can't change that fast, hes still there. With familiarity, sex, and fear you could be caving a month after she comes back.
> 
> Carlton also realized this. So many times he tried to R with his wife, so many times everyone told him exactly what would happen. He learned how to deal with that previous version of himself and acknowledges.
> 
> Thats why I'm worried for you.
> 
> you've been a doormat, and technically you still are. You're trying to change that, but you need to acknowledge your past, and acknowledge that when you let her back those old beta feelings and mindsets WILL come to your mind, make no mistake about that.
> 
> If you go into this thinking you're completely in control(when actually, SHE IS as shes the one who got to have her 6 month sex filled hiatus from marriage and whether you admit it or not, is waltzing back into it at her discretion, and all she had to do was turn on the emotions) then she is gonna pull your heartstrings, invoke the old NDY, and eat you alive.


No doubt changing is a gradual process, and no doubt those beta feelings and mindsets will return to a degree. She's turning on the emotions as I type this, sending me texts about poetry and everything, but I look at how my heart would've leapt at such things four months ago and how little it budges now and know things are significantly different. By no means is she waltzing back. She has some control, as we still have some remote semblance of a relationship, but honestly I'm going my own way and just hoping she follows. If not, well I'm in a new city next week so turning the page will be that much easier.

I appreciate the warning, because I've never been through this before so I can't say how I'll feel during reconciliation if by some chance that happens. As for now I know I still get angry about the affair one moment and miss her the next but I have it much more under control.


----------



## NotDoneYet

chapparal said:


> I would not drop the divorce until the very last day or very very close to it. Use it as a timeline for your R. Counting down the days and marking progress and also failures in actions.
> 
> I think this would give added protection to you and see if she can carry that load.
> 
> You need a plan that you both agree to and stick to it. Other wise you will fail or continue to struggle.
> 
> What books have you read and what books are you planning on her reading. Give her the books and have a deadline for reading them. Do not accept laziness from either of you.


Divorce Busting, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Not Just Friends, I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You, How Can I Trust You Again, Winning Your Wife Back, and a couple others


----------



## NotDoneYet

badmemory said:


> NotDoneYet,
> 
> I've got to hand it to you. You hung in there yesterday amongst an onslaught of advice you don't agree with. You kept posting. Most in your situation would have turned tail and not returned. I hope you continue posting, because even if it's unlikely that you'll have a successful R, if you do, I'd love to read about it.
> 
> I will give you the perspective of a BS in R, who's wife was for all practical purposes, as bad as yours. No, she didn't leave me for him, but she wanted to. She tried to convince him to make a choice between his wife or her, but she continued the affair with him even though he wouldn't leave his wife (her best friend). She would have left me in a heartbeat if he had. But he dumped her when I found out about it - after two years of cheating with him. I'm continuing my marriage with her, knowing she attempted an exit affair and I was her plan B.
> 
> I didn't find TAM until about 8 months into R. If I had found it earlier, I probably would have received the same advice you're getting. Given that advice, I may have decided not to take her back, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Fact is, when I did find TAM, even that far along in R, many still couldn't believe my lack of self respect for attempting it; even with a completely (so far) remorseful spouse. But I, like you, didn't want to give up on my 23 year marriage without giving R at least a shot. I wanted no regrets for not trying.
> 
> Let's look at the best case scenario. Let's say your wife comes back and is completely remorseful - like mine has been. She does the heavy lifting, she's transparent, loving, sex is good, she's a joy to be with. I'll suggest that even in that scenario your life will never be the same. You'll have mind movies, doubts, occasional regrets, suspicions, bouts of low self esteem, and there will always be that lingering hurt that just won't seem to go away. You may even get to the point where you wish that your wife would "mess up" so you could better justify ending it.
> 
> Having said that however, there is a chance that your R will be successful. A chance that your life with this now, remorseful and motivated spouse will be better than without her. No one on this board can help you make that decision better than you.
> 
> I believe the chances of you having a successful R are small. I would have been told the same thing right after I caught my wife - and rightly so. If you do R, you should realize those odds. You should realize the hurt you will still endure. If you do, and still want to go forward, then more power to you.
> 
> But be true to yourself from now on. Draw a line in the sand, and this time, don't allow her to cross it. And remember that even if she stays remorseful, no one could blame you for leaving her at any point down the line, after you at least attempted to save your marriage.
> 
> That where I'm at after 17 months of R. I currently think my life is better now with her, than it would have been without her. But I have no illusions of permanency, and I probably never will.
> 
> Keep posting, absorb the advice, then do what "you" think is best for you. I wish you the best - whatever decision you make.


Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. I also believe my chances of R are small, small, small.

I believe that if it's at all possible to reconcile, that's the best way for me to heal myself from the affair - not because I need her but because I don't like unresolved issues lingering on the mind, and infecting any future relationships. And like you I'll never have a sense of permanency, be it with my WW or anyone else - so why not stay with the woman who's most likely understand my mistrust (assuming she ever comes around and is remorseful)?

It's very likely I'll have to deal with the issues being unresolved, and I'm fine with that and being on my own. I've already found a lot of resolution without her, actually, though it's been a slow process. But I don't want to give up my best chance to heal myself until I'm positive it's gone.


----------



## bandit.45

NDY, may hats off to you. It takes a lot of courage to trust someone who has betrayed you time and time again. Don't listen to all these naysayers. They don't know the real you. If you feel you are doing the right thing then stay the course. 

By the way....can I borrow $500? I promise I'll pay you back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NotDoneYet

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> That was an interesting game, but I'm done playing.
> 
> Random thoughts on the exercise...
> 
> There was no decision. It's obvious there never was.
> 
> What was going to happen was already pre-determined. Yet, curiously the dialogue here continued?.
> 
> Conclusion...
> 
> The subject authoring this thread is playing on his audience to meet a need.
> 
> This whole thread and the exchanges in it were orchestrated and manipulated along a storyline. The subject is seeking external stimuli, in this case by manufacturing conflict.
> 
> This obviously provides an internal motivation source for him.
> 
> Perhaps, the subject was experiencing some internal reluctance and needed a push.
> 
> In which case, he's found it. Now he's out to prove everyone wrong.
> 
> Well played.


You can't say you're done playing and then come back to say you're done playing. What time is our appointment tomorrow, doctor?


----------



## sharkeey

NotDoneYet said:


> You can't say you're done playing and then come back to say you're done playing.


Sure he can!

Just like you can say, "It's over we're getting divorced, and then say "Come home and we won't get divorced".


----------



## NotDoneYet

sharkeey said:


> Where do you get that crazy idea from?
> 
> I sure don't believe in reconciliation and would never forgive a cheater- although once in a while I read a story where there just might be a chance, usually posted by the cheater whose betrayed spouse is strong enough to show them the door as soon as the affair came to light.
> 
> In this case, I don't think reconciliation is a viable option nor do many others posting on this thread who ARE pro reconciliation on other threads with more positive aspects.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude you're being defensive and playing with words, and as many others have suggested we're here to help not attack you, you're directing your anger and frustrations at the wrong people.
> 
> 
> 
> Your message to your wife was clear, regardless of the exact words you used. You'll drop the divorce if she stops talking to OM and AGREES TO RETURN HOME. Period.
> 
> That's weak, ineffective and will only work against you.
> 
> At least be honest with yourself, otherwise you're sabotaging your own efforts. And you're the only one who is going to get hurt here.
> 
> You've got a "possible" chance at reconciliation, but you're going to blow it unless you get really strong and stay that way even if you have to fake it.


I'd never drop the divorce simply because she came home.


----------



## sharkeey

NotDoneYet said:


> I'd never drop the divorce simply because she came home.


So you want her to move back home with you, and then work on saving the marriage.

That's going to be awkward.

I get what you're trying to do but given what has transpired I'm thinking it's best that you both continue to reside elsewhere while she works through the items on your list.

If she masters all the items on the list and passes the final exam, then her moving home can be a sort of reward.

Right now all you're rewarding is her cheating.


----------



## NotDoneYet

sharkeey said:


> Sure he can!
> 
> Just like you can say, "It's over we're getting divorced, and then say "Come home and we won't get divorced".


Again, I never said come back home and we won't get divorced. Didn't say it.


----------



## NotDoneYet

sharkeey said:


> So you want her to move back home with you, and then work on saving the marriage.
> 
> That's going to be awkward.
> 
> I get what you're trying to do but given what has transpired I'm thinking it's best that you both continue to reside elsewhere while she works through the items on your list.
> 
> If she masters all the items on the list and passes the final exam, then her moving home can be a sort of reward.
> 
> Right now all you're rewarding is her cheating.


I'd prefer she live elsewhere for a few months. Though because we live 7 hours apart and she has no job or money, it might be necessary to let her stay at my new apartment at least until she gets a job.


----------



## sharkeey

NotDoneYet said:


> Again, I never said come back home and we won't get divorced. Didn't say it.


Ok, I get it.

She's gotta return home immediately and do a whole bunch of other things and if she satisfies your requirements then you might reconsider.

I still think having her live with you is a crazy idea given what's transpired but what the heck. At this point you've got very little left to lose. You're still in somewhat better shape than some guys whose wife has left and has no interest whatsoever in coming back to him, or a guy who has been legally evicted from his home and replaced by the OM who is now a father to his children, or a woman who had an affair and is now pregnant with OMs child, or a guy who just found out the child he's been supporting for the past 10 years isn't his, but I digress. 

Hopefully despite some of the criticism directed your way you will keep your fellow forum members updated with how things are going with your wife once she moves back in with you.


----------



## Hope1964

NotDoneYet said:


> why not stay with the woman who's most likely understand my mistrust (assuming she ever comes around and is remorseful)?


This is something many people don't understand - I've had to try and explain it a few times  

Just do NOT forget that she MUST be TRULY remorseful for you guys to have a hope in hell.


----------



## Ostera

NDY,

I am attempting R as I have mentioned before. I honestly can say that if my W moved back in right now we would most likely fall into the same trap/rut we were in.

I know emotionally you want her under your roof because it's a comforting feeling.. i have the same feelings... but I am not going to give into those feelings or thoughts.

If she is serious about the R she should have the resolve to figure out how to move out of the OM place and find somewhere to stay.

Otherwise, she isn't really putting forth any real effort or feeling any pain..

Basically either you or OM is paying her way. She is too dependant financially to step up for herself.

If you walk away and she loses interest in OM there with be OM2 right around the corner to foot her bill.

Not to be mean, but it appears she is using her vj as a meal ticket.


----------



## NotDoneYet

bandit.45 said:


> NDY, may hats off to you. It takes a lot of courage to trust someone who has betrayed you time and time again. Don't listen to all these naysayers. They don't know the real you. If you feel you are doing the right thing then stay the course.
> 
> By the way....can I borrow $500? I promise I'll pay you back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was almost clever, but since you're a complete stranger I have zero basis for trusting you. Maybe if you were at least an acquaintance, that line might've had some punch. Do I trust my WW? Hardly, but more than I do a complete stranger.

If you feel I'm being gullible, say so without being an ass. Plenty of people on this thread are giving tough advice while being respectful, and I'm listening respectfully to all of them. Thoughtful dialogue, give it a try!


----------



## NotDoneYet

sharkeey said:


> Ok, I get it.
> 
> She's gotta return home immediately and do a whole bunch of other things and if she satisfies your requirements then you might reconsider.
> 
> I still think having her live with you is a crazy idea given what's transpired but what the heck. At this point you've got very little left to lose. You're still in somewhat better shape than some guys whose wife has left and has no interest whatsoever in coming back to him, or a guy who has been legally evicted from his home and replaced by the OM who is now a father to his children, or a woman who had an affair and is now pregnant with OMs child, or a guy who just found out the child he's been supporting for the past 10 years isn't his, but I digress.
> 
> Hopefully despite some of the criticism directed your way you will keep your fellow forum members updated with how things are going with your wife once she moves back in with you.


On the slight chance that happens, I definitely will.


----------



## bandit.45

Got your attention didn't it? And yes...I'm an ass. .many on this forum know I am and expect it. We all can't be Stuart Smalleys and blow sunshine up your behind. This woman threw you to the curb and stomped in your face...and you're gonna give her another chance? Are you kidding me?

Its your life pal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

NotDoneYet said:


> Divorce Busting, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Not Just Friends, I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You, How Can I Trust You Again, Winning Your Wife Back, and a couple others


The first thing you need to read is Married Man Sex Life. Its your road MAP. You will most likely see what others do........how you got here.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Hope1964 said:


> This is something many people don't understand - I've had to try and explain it a few times
> 
> Just do NOT forget that she MUST be TRULY remorseful for you guys to have a hope in hell.


Oh yes, I know that. I doubt this is a true R at hand, but it's the first time she's really acted this apologetic. Even when she moved her stuff back home in November (for all of an hour!) she wasn't apologizing like this. So it is some kind of progress, albeit an ounce versus the ton we need.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Ostera said:


> NDY,
> 
> I am attempting R as I have mentioned before. I honestly can say that if my W moved back in right now we would most likely fall into the same trap/rut we were in.
> 
> I know emotionally you want her under your roof because it's a comforting feeling.. i have the same feelings... but I am not going to give into those feelings or thoughts.
> 
> If she is serious about the R she should have the resolve to figure out how to move out of the OM place and find somewhere to stay.
> 
> Otherwise, she isn't really putting forth any real effort or feeling any pain..
> 
> Basically either you or OM is paying her way. She is too dependant financially to step up for herself.
> 
> If you walk away and she loses interest in OM there with be OM2 right around the corner to foot her bill.
> 
> Not to be mean, but it appears she is using her vj as a meal ticket.


Right, I agree. I want her to get a separate place for a while. It's just since we have 7 hours distance between us I think were she truly willing to R I'd rather she stay at my place for 2-3 weeks and find a job & apartment than have her get a job where she lives now, sign a lease there (currently she lives with OM at his parents' house. Yep.)...just seems like my choice is let her stay here for a while to get settled or push R way down the road. And time isn't our friend as it's been 5 months already.


----------



## hookares

NotDoneYet said:


> Oh yes, I know that. I doubt this is a true R at hand, but it's the first time she's really acted this apologetic. Even when she moved her stuff back home in November (for all of an hour!) she wasn't apologizing like this. So it is some kind of progress, albeit an ounce versus the ton we need.


Hope it works out for you. However, in the last two years since my ex kicked me out and we divorced, she has made overtures to me in trying to get back together five different times. Each time has been after some sort of financial tragedy has befallen her and she had to turn to the guy who solved ALL of her money problems for over twenty years. She feigned remorse each time and seemed sincere. The first three times I caught her in a lie and the fourth time, she had been driven to my location by one of her latest studs who was patiently awaiting her return sitting in the 2010 Caddy I had purchased for her and that the judge had felt she deserved.
Even mine managed to stay away for over a year before hard times hit her.:scratchhead:


----------



## NotDoneYet

bandit.45 said:


> Got your attention didn't it? And yes...I'm an ass. .many on this forum know I am and expect it. We all can't be Stuart Smalleys and blow sunshine up your behind. This woman threw you to the curb and stomped in your face...and you're gonna give her another chance? Are you kidding me?
> 
> Its your life pal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shouting in my ear would get my attention too, but I'd be less likely to hear what you're saying. But be an ass, it's your life pal.


----------



## NotDoneYet

chapparal said:


> The first thing you need to read is Married Man Sex Life. Its your road MAP. You will most likely see what others do........how you got here.


I've heard a lot about that book. I'll definitely put it on my list.


----------



## bandit.45

NotDoneYet said:


> Shouting in my ear would get my attention too, but I'd be less likely to hear what you're saying. But be an ass, it's your life pal.


Now if you could be just half that angry with your WW....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NotDoneYet

hookares said:


> Hope it works out for you. However, in the last two years since my ex kicked me out and we divorced, she has made overtures to me in trying to get back together five different times. Each time has been after some sort of financial tragedy has befallen her and she had to turn to the guy who solved ALL of her money problems for over twenty years. She feigned remorse each time and seemed sincere. The first three times I caught her in a lie and the fourth time, she had been driven to my location by one of her latest studs who was patiently awaiting her return sitting in the 2010 Caddy I had purchased for her and that the judge had felt she deserved.
> Even mine managed to stay away for over a year before hard times hit her.:scratchhead:


That's rough...some people have a pathological need to be saved. I definitely think that's the case with my WW too. She's very upset I told her I wouldn't help her move back, for instance. I already did that once, and she moved right back with OM. She really wants me to drive 7 hours to pick her up when she's the one who drove away in the first place. She actually asked "How am I supposed to load the van myself?" to which I would've replied if I were speaking to her "With your arms."


----------



## NotDoneYet

bandit.45 said:


> Now if you could be just half that angry with your WW....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Took me too long but I'm there.


----------



## Acabado

I see, while she's still living with OM she send some texts "about poetry" and such. She must be so remorseful...
Wait, she wants you to drive 7 hours away to pack her bags.

Good Lord.


----------



## Cdelta02

Wait, are you saying that all this talk about moving back is while she is with OM? Didn't she even have the decency to move out?


----------



## Jibril

NotDoneYet said:


> That was almost clever, but since you're a complete stranger I have zero basis for trusting you. Maybe if you were at least an acquaintance, that line might've had some punch. Do I trust my WW? Hardly, but more than I do a complete stranger.
> 
> If you feel I'm being gullible, say so without being an ass. Plenty of people on this thread are giving tough advice while being respectful, and I'm listening respectfully to all of them. Thoughtful dialogue, give it a try!


All this talk of strangers and trust is sadly ironic, NotDoneYet. I'm not sure you see it, though. 

Sure, you may not know Bandit, but do you "know" your wife? Tell us....

Did you ever think this woman you "know" so well would break her marital vows?

Did you ever think this woman you "know" so well would choose another man over you?

Did you ever think this woman you "know" so well would walk out on you?

I'm going to speak _for_ you, so forgive me. 

No. You didn't think these things, because no betrayed spouse thinks or expects these things. Yet this is the case for most of the betrayed spouses posting on this thread. Quite simply, _you don't know her anymore_. She is not the woman you married. She's changed - a different person.

You can admit to that, at least, yes? So why would you trust this woman _you don't know anymore_ with a marital home? Especially given what you _do_ know about her?

She's a bigger stranger to you than Bandit or anyone else posting on this thread, NotDoneYet. We're trying to help you. What is _she_ doing for you?


----------



## JCD

NotDoneYet said:


> I'd prefer she live elsewhere for a few months. Though because we live 7 hours apart and she has no job or money, it might be necessary to let her stay at my new apartment at least until she gets a job.


Sorry...she should have thought of that before she walked out.

Isn't it funny that when she has no money and no job, she's very interested in you. In your heart, if she had a paid up condo, $12,000 in the bank and a paycheck, do you think you would see her crawling back?

I think you need to analyze her motives.

See who brings that up first. Don't offer.


----------



## 3putt

NotDoneYet said:


> That was almost clever, but since you're a complete stranger I have zero basis for trusting you. Maybe if you were at least an acquaintance, that line might've had some punch. Do I trust my WW? Hardly, but more than I do a complete stranger.
> 
> If you feel I'm being gullible, say so without being an ass. Plenty of people on this thread are giving tough advice while being respectful, and I'm listening respectfully to all of them. Thoughtful dialogue, give it a try!


You've been given plenty of thoughtful dialogue, but apparently you are too thick skulled and gullible to accept solid advice from people that are not really strangers, but people that have BTDT and are trying to help you and guide you from making the biggest mistake of your life.

You said...



> Do I trust my WW? Hardly, but more than I do a complete stranger.


Really??? We (and I mean the collective) haven't betrayed you; she has. Why would you trust her more than us? What have we done to betray you? Think about it before getting so defensive in your responses. Remember, you came here looking for help...no one here went looking for you. We have been through what you are going through, and trying to keep you from making the same mistakes that so many of us have made. And that's being so quick to pull the trigger on recovery without some true remorse. You haven't gotten sh!t but a damned email, and now you're just willing to welcome her back into the fold after a 5 month separation due to adultery beginning during the 7th month of marriage. :scratchhead: 

Keep your petty, self serving, and frankly, idiotic insults to yourself. If you choose to be stupid, then don't blame the board.

Look in the mirror. Dude, you've just successfully transformed yourself into a cuckold!

You've been warned.

LOL...chances of you listening to this warning?

NIL


----------



## NotDoneYet

Jibril said:


> All this talk of strangers and trust is sadly ironic, NotDoneYet. I'm not sure you see it, though.
> 
> Sure, you may not know Bandit, but do you "know" your wife? Tell us....
> 
> Did you ever think this woman you "know" so well would break her marital vows?
> 
> Did you ever think this woman you "know" so well would choose another man over you?
> 
> Did you ever think this woman you "know" so well would walk out on you?
> 
> I'm going to speak _for_ you, so forgive me.
> 
> No. You didn't think these things, because no betrayed spouse thinks or expects these things. Yet this is the case for most of the betrayed spouses posting on this thread. Quite simply, _you don't know her anymore_. She is not the woman you married. She's changed - a different person.
> 
> You can admit to that, at least, yes? So why would you trust this woman _you don't know anymore_ with a marital home? Especially given what you _do_ know about her?
> 
> She's a bigger stranger to you than Bandit or anyone else posting on this thread, NotDoneYet. We're trying to help you. What is _she_ doing for you?


I know what you're saying. She's a different person from when I married her. But I'd let her borrow my car before Bandit or anyone else here. So yeah, I trust her more than I trust someone I've literally never met before.


----------



## NotDoneYet

JCD said:


> Sorry...she should have thought of that before she walked out.
> 
> Isn't it funny that when she has no money and no job, she's very interested in you. In your heart, if she had a paid up condo, $12,000 in the bank and a paycheck, do you think you would see her crawling back?
> 
> I think you need to analyze her motives.
> 
> See who brings that up first. Don't offer.


I have no money either, so I know that's not a motive. I think she just got nervous that I filed the D. Whether she truly wants to R or not she now has to make a permanent decision and that scares her.


----------



## Shaggy

NDY who's bed is she sleeping in tonight. I think that shows how much she wants to return.


----------



## NotDoneYet

3putt said:


> You've been given plenty of thoughtful dialogue, but apparently you are too thick skulled and gullible to accept solid advice


I've used plenty of the advice from TAM, even stuff I found counterintuitive. The only thing not getting through the filter is sarcasm, insults, assumptions etc.



3putt said:


> Why would you trust her more than us? What have we done to betray you? Think about it before getting so defensive in your responses.


To ask if I trust you is a question with zero context. Trust you with what? I'll gladly listen to any advice you have and trust that it's based on real experience, but if you're asking in general do I have more trust in my WW or a complete stranger I'll go with my WW. But do I trust her? Maybe to wash her hands after taking a piss but beyond that no.



3putt said:


> Remember, you came here looking for help...no one here went looking for you.


Yep I did. Grateful and respectful to all those who offer it respectfully.



3putt said:


> And that's being so quick to pull the trigger on recovery without some true remorse. You haven't gotten sh!t but a damned email, and now you're just willing to welcome her back into the fold after a 5 month separation due to adultery beginning during the 7th month of marriage.


Read the thread thoroughly before posting. I'm not pulling the trigger on recovery. Haven't talked to her at all since I told her I filed. Ignored 30+ texts, 3 phone calls. And where did you get that I've been married for 7 months? 4 years married, 6 years together.



3putt said:


> Keep your petty, self serving, and frankly, idiotic insults to yourself.


Tell that to all those who chose to be petty, self-serving, idiotic, and insulting in their advice. I've been nothing but respectful to anyone who's been so to me.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Shaggy said:


> NDY who's bed is she sleeping in tonight. I think that shows how much she wants to return.


I have no doubts this is very, very likely, near 100% certainly a false R. Said that multiple times. It's just the first time I've ever seen her be this apologetic, so something is different but not nearly different enough. No doubts whatsoever about my slim odds.


----------



## the guy

I still think she needs to be on her own before she can be with any one else.
I said it before and I'll say it again, she needs to work on her self first.

Then if she can except the prison sentence she will have to endoure while earning some trust from you then it could work for the both of you.

I guess what sits sour in my mind is the fact that she is going from one guy to another and back.


----------



## the guy

NotDoneYet said:


> I have no doubts this is very, very likely, near 100% certainly a false R. Said that multiple times. It's just the first time I've ever seen her be this apologetic, so something is different but not nearly different enough. No doubts whatsoever about my slim odds.


Her wanting to return has to be taken with a grain of salt. Don't you think?


----------



## NotDoneYet

the guy said:


> I still think she needs to be on her own before she can be with any one else.
> I said it before and I'll say it again, she needs to work on her self first.
> 
> Then if she can except the prison sentence she will have to endoure while earning some trust from you then it could work for the both of you.
> 
> I guess what sits sour in my mind is the fact that she is going from one guy to another and back.


Right I don't like it either, and would prefer she live on her own. The particulars of our situation just make that difficult in that she has no money, and we live 7 hours apart. So if she were to come here she'd need a place to stay while she gets a job - it's that or she gets a job where she's at now and further plants herself there and we delay R for a few months. If R does happen I'd prefer she stay with me 2-3 weeks until she gets a job and her own place


----------



## NotDoneYet

the guy said:


> Her wanting to return has to be taken with a grain of salt. Don't you think?


Half a grain.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

NotDoneYet said:


> The particulars of our situation just make that difficult in that she has no money, and we live 7 hours apart.


So now that she's broke and pissed away half the money that should've been going into the joint kitty, she wants to come back. Did I get that right?

How much of your money did she spend on the OM?

If you won't listen to our advice against R with this woman, please listen to this one: DON'T GET HER PREGNANT!


----------



## JCD

NotDoneYet said:


> I've used plenty of the advice from TAM, even stuff I found counterintuitive. The only thing not getting through the filter is sarcasm, insults, assumptions etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep I did. Grateful and respectful to all those who offer it respectfully.
> 
> 
> Tell that to all those who chose to be petty, self-serving, idiotic, and insulting in their advice. I've been nothing but respectful to anyone who's been so to me.


For the last 5 months, you have been a wreck. You have been through an emotional ringer, lost, despondent, not sure which way up or down was and you came HERE for help.

These people have been giving you help. They have sympathized with you. They have given you emotional support. They have BEEN you and could share your pain.

If you've 'grown'...if you have become stronger...it is in part because of the support and advice of the people here (not me so much. I'm new and haven't been giving you much advice).

Where would you have been without these people? Alone in an apartment YOU helped empty out having dinner with a woman who was fvcking a strange man, desperately longing for her to come back.

Their tone hasn't changed. Their assessment of her character hasn't changed. The circumstances hasn't really changed. WE are the same.

But now *you* don't want to hear that. You characterize this as 'disrespectful'

I have a term for you: *ingratitude*


----------



## NotDoneYet

JCD said:


> For the last 5 months, you have been a wreck. You have been through an emotional ringer, lost, despondent, not sure which way up or down was and you came HERE for help.
> 
> These people have been giving you help. They have sympathized with you. They have given you emotional support. They have BEEN you and could share your pain.
> 
> If you've 'grown'...if you have become stronger...it is in part because of the support and advice of the people here (not me so much. I'm new and haven't been giving you much advice).
> 
> Where would you have been without these people? Alone in an apartment YOU helped empty out having dinner with a woman who was fvcking a strange man, desperately longing for her to come back.
> 
> Their tone hasn't changed. Their assessment of her character hasn't changed. The circumstances hasn't really changed. WE are the same.
> 
> But now *you* don't want to hear that. You characterize this as 'disrespectful'
> 
> I have a term for you: *ingratitude*


Yep. And I've been respectful and grateful to anyone who offers advice without belittling me.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> So now that she's broke and pissed away half the money that should've been going into the joint kitty, she wants to come back. Did I get that right?
> 
> How much of your money did she spend on the OM?
> 
> If you won't listen to our advice against R with this woman, please listen to this one: DON'T GET HER PREGNANT!


None of my money. The joint account was pretty much empty these past few months hovering around $30 and was just there so she could transfer me money to pay bills. It gets closed next week.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

NotDoneYet said:


> None of my money. The joint account was pretty much empty these past few months hovering around $30 and was just there so she could transfer me money to pay bills. It gets closed next week.


That's just it - it was YOUR money. When you get married, what's yours is hers, and what hers is yours. It's a zero-sum game. If she's spending money on a apartment and other necessities of life apart from you, then YOUR money is being wasted.

And now you want to help her out because she's broke? 

She was fine for five months without you. 

You do realize that you're just Plan B and she will leave you again once something shinier and better comes along?


----------



## JCD

YOU have an apartment lined up

YOU have a job lined up.

If you want to engage in sophistry, that's fine. You 'technically' don't have any money. You know you are still in a better place than she is.

Whatever. I wish you the best for you. That is technically different that wishing you what you want.

I can engage in sophistry too.


----------



## NotDoneYet

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> That's just it - it was YOUR money. When you get married, what's yours is hers, and what hers is yours. It's a zero-sum game. If she's spending money on a apartment and other necessities of life apart from you, then YOUR money is being wasted.
> 
> And now you want to help her out because she's broke?
> 
> She was fine for five months without you.
> 
> You do realize that you're just Plan B and she will leave you again once something shinier and better comes along?


None of my money was spent on OM. What I earned went into my own account. What she spent was came from the job she used to have.

Nowhere did I say I want to help her out because she's broke. I said that since she lives 7 hours away and has no job, on the small chance we R I have to let her stay at my place for 2-3 weeks until she finds a job and apartment. Otherwise she'd have to find a job and sign a lease and further plant her roots 7 hours away, making R far more difficult. Not a pity-party, just a practicality.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

NDY, good night and good luck.


----------



## NotDoneYet

JCD said:


> YOU have an apartment lined up
> 
> YOU have a job lined up.
> 
> If you want to engage in sophistry, that's fine. You 'technically' don't have any money. You know you are still in a better place than she is.
> 
> Whatever. I wish you the best for you. That is technically different that wishing you what you want.
> 
> I can engage in sophistry too.


Not trying to argue. She's got a place to stay that's nicer than my studio apartment and people paying for her whereas I more than "technically" have no money, so I know finances aren't a motive for her apologizing. All I'm sayin', no argument intended.


----------



## JCD

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> NDY, good night and good luck.


Sigh.

I still have so much to learn. The Count is so much wiser.

I bid you adieu...respectfully.


----------



## NotDoneYet

JCD said:


> Sigh.
> 
> I still have so much to learn. The Count is so much wiser.
> 
> I bid you adieu...respectfully.


Okay.


----------



## BjornFree

The fog is thick in this one


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

BS can be in denial but how much? As much as NotDoneYet.....

May god be with him and give the strength to take it next time also........


----------



## warlock07

In case I missed it, why do you want her back ? What does she offer you ?


----------



## warlock07

NotDoneYet said:


> That's rough...some people have a pathological need to be saved. I definitely think that's the case with my WW too. She's very upset I told her I wouldn't help her move back, for instance. I already did that once, and she moved right back with OM. She really wants me to drive 7 hours to pick her up when she's the one who drove away in the first place. She actually asked "How am I supposed to load the van myself?" to which I would've replied if I were speaking to her "With your arms."


Entitled b!tch alert. Seriously be careful with this woman. It only tells you that she did not change, even if she is apologizing..Some just cannot see how selfish they are.


----------



## Jasel

warlock07 said:


> In case I missed it, why do you want her back ? What does she offer you ?


He said something to the effect of "He wants to make sure he tried his hardest to salvage the relationship" or something along those lines. Which to me doesn't even make sense. 

How many times would you have to get kicked in the balls by someone only to give that same person another shot just to make sure you did everything you could to not keep getting kicked in the balls?

I think he might be somewhat co-dependant and simply can't let this person go. No offense to the OP but he really comes off as all talk, no walk. 

His WW screwed him over HARDCORE, lives with and is ****ing some OM, his WW doesn't seem to show any true remorse, and he basically says "Okay. Why not? I'll handle things differently this time. BTW WW, you can come live with me until you get back on your feet". Going on how he's handling the situation now I kind of doubt that he'll do anything significantly different.

But who knows, I could be wrong. We'll just have to see and hope things work out.


----------



## sharkeey

NotDoneYet said:


> it's the first time she's really acted this apologetic. Even when she moved her stuff back home in November (for all of an hour!) she wasn't apologizing like this. So it is some kind of progress


When she moved her stuff back home in November she "wasn't apologizing like this", and you see progress.

But then you go and write this:



NotDoneYet said:


> She really wants me to drive 7 hours to pick her up when she's the one who drove away in the first place. She actually asked "How am I supposed to load the van myself?"


She doesn't sound very apologetic at all. Not sure the tone with which she said those words but if there was even the slightest hint of sarcasm, that says a lot about where her head is at right now.

Only you know if she asked you that question in a way that was truly "honest and baffled" as in she has no clue how to get the van loaded on her own, or her tone was more along the lines of "I expect you to come up here and bail me out like you've done countless times before and why are you acting different this time, you lazy A$$".


----------



## TRy

NotDoneYet said:


> That's rough...some people have a pathological need to be saved. I definitely think that's the case with my WW too. She's very upset I told her I wouldn't help her move back, for instance. I already did that once, and she moved right back with OM. She really wants me to drive 7 hours to pick her up when she's the one who drove away in the first place. She actually asked "How am I supposed to load the van myself?" to which I would've replied if I were speaking to her "With your arms."


 Actually, I think that she has a pathological need to humiliate. I think that she gets off on it. The trial move back that she proposed where she would move back with you on a temporary basis would have been humiliating to you and to her affair partner; you were wise to turn that offer down. Having you retrieval your wife's stuff from the very home where she was sleeping with the other man just hours before would have been equally humiliating; again, you were wise not to agree to this either. Both requests where out of the park unreasonable and shows how little empathy she has for you as a person. She is a sociopath that enjoys the feelings of superiority that she gets when she can get others to humiliate themselves at her request.

If you read my past posts on this board, you will she that I rarely if ever try to psychoanalyze anyone on this board, but this case is different in that your wife is so out there in her requests. I do not know of any other cheater that I have read about that has shown less compassion for their spouse as they cheat on them than has your wife for you. She is broken. She is missing something. It is not you, it is her. The proof of this is that she is now being just a cruel with her affair partner's feeling as with yours. You should not believe me on this. You need to get individual therapy from a professional right now and share with them what I have said. Then ask that professional why you have allowed yourself to be a part of this. Do this before you proceed doing anything more with your wife.

I am sorry that you are here. You sound like a nice guy that is dealing with something that few are prepared to handle. Be well and good luck.


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## NotDoneYet

sharkeey said:


> When she moved her stuff back home in November she "wasn't apologizing like this", and you see progress.
> 
> But then you go and write this:
> 
> 
> 
> She doesn't sound very apologetic at all. Not sure the tone with which she said those words but if there was even the slightest hint of sarcasm, that says a lot about where her head is at right now.
> 
> Only you know if she asked you that question in a way that was truly "honest and baffled" as in she has no clue how to get the van loaded on her own, or her tone was more along the lines of "I expect you to come up here and bail me out like you've done countless times before and why are you acting different this time, you lazy A$$".


Yeah I don't believe she's truly remorseful, so I haven't responded. She apologizes like crazy but is reluctant to take action


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## NotDoneYet

TRy said:


> Actually, I think that she has a pathological need to humiliate. I think that she gets off on it. The trial move back that she proposed where she would move back with you on a temporary basis would have been humiliating to you and to her affair partner; you were wise to turn that offer down. Having you retrieval your wife's stuff from the very home where she was sleeping with the other man just hours before would have been equally humiliating; again, you were wise not to agree to this either. Both requests where out of the park unreasonable and shows how little empathy she has for you as a person. She is a sociopath that enjoys the feelings of superiority that she gets when she can get others to humiliate themselves at her request.
> 
> If you read my past posts on this board, you will she that I rarely if ever try to psychoanalyze anyone on this board, but this case is different in that your wife is so out there in her requests. I do not know of any other cheater that I have read about that has shown less compassion for their spouse as they cheat on them than has your wife for you. She is broken. She is missing something. It is not you, it is her. The proof of this is that she is now being just a cruel with her affair partner's feeling as with yours. You should not believe me on this. You need to get individual therapy from a professional right now and share with them what I have said. Then ask that professional why you have allowed yourself to be a part of this. Do this before you proceed doing anything more with your wife.
> 
> I am sorry that you are here. You sound like a nice guy that is dealing with something that few are prepared to handle. Be well and good luck.


Thank you. Yeah I realized after about two months it really isn't me. She had a complicated childhood, as well as a mother who was mentally ill. My father who works in psychology says the onset of many mental illnesses in women is around 30 - bingo. As for why I allowed myself to be a part of this, I tend to want to understand problems from the bottom up and was willing for a long time to absorb the pain in attempt to figure out what the hell was going on. But it took time and trying everything I could think of to see the truth is she doesn't even know why she's doing this. There's no logical solution to an illogical problem. So I'm making peace with the idea of having no resolution.


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## NotDoneYet

Jasel said:


> He said something to the effect of "He wants to make sure he tried his hardest to salvage the relationship" or something along those lines. Which to me doesn't even make sense.
> 
> How many times would you have to get kicked in the balls by someone only to give that same person another shot just to make sure you did everything you could to not keep getting kicked in the balls?
> 
> I think he might be somewhat co-dependant and simply can't let this person go. No offense to the OP but he really comes off as all talk, no walk.
> 
> His WW screwed him over HARDCORE, lives with and is ****ing some OM, his WW doesn't seem to show any true remorse, and he basically says "Okay. Why not? I'll handle things differently this time. BTW WW, you can come live with me until you get back on your feet". Going on how he's handling the situation now I kind of doubt that he'll do anything significantly different.
> 
> But who knows, I could be wrong. We'll just have to see and hope things work out.


I think I was codependent, but for at least the last month or so the "need" to be with her has dissipated. She actually told me around then that she likes being with OM because he can't live without her, whereas I seemed to be ready to just move on.

Feeling like I did everything I could...I know it doesn't quite make sense, but feelings don't. In the future I don't want to go "oh, I should've confronted OM" (did that) or "oh, I should've exposed" (did that too). Pretty much from the beginning I knew this was an exit affair, so a lot of what I've done is just to satisfy that nagging voice in my head that says I could've tried harder. Today I'm confident there's nothing more I can do, so I know I won't have any regrets in the future. That's worth the temporary pain of getting kicked in the balls repeatedly.

I don't want her to live with me. But because she lives 7 hours away with no job, and doesn't know anyone else in the city I live in she could stay with, should she want to R the choice is let her stay with me until she gets a job & apartment or she stays where she's at, gets a job, signs a lease, further plants herself there, and we delay R for several more months until she gets enough money to move here, find another apartment, and get another job. I don't want her to live with me. She needs time alone to figure herself out.


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## bfree

NDY,

I just want to point out something that should be obvious but maybe you've overlooked. She is still living with the OM right? So she sends you an email which you are supposed to see as her being remorseful. Then after she hits "send" she crawls into bed with him and allows him to "plow her fields." So how much remorse is she actually showing? Remember...actions....not words.


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## jim123

You need time to figure yourself out too. Make sure you are doing thing because that is what you really want. Make sure you do want her back. Think about what your future will look like. Be honest with yourslef.


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## NotDoneYet

bfree said:


> NDY,
> 
> I just want to point out something that should be obvious but maybe you've overlooked. She is still living with the OM right? So she sends you an email which you are supposed to see as her being remorseful. Then after she hits "send" she crawls into bed with him and allows him to "plow her fields." So how much remorse is she actually showing? Remember...actions....not words.


Right, I don't think she's remorseful. She is apologizing and saying she wants to come back, which is an improvement, but not nearly enough.


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## NotDoneYet

jim123 said:


> You need time to figure yourself out too. Make sure you are doing thing because that is what you really want. Make sure you do want her back. Think about what your future will look like. Be honest with yourslef.


I want her back if she comes out of the fog and truly is remorseful. Don't think that's likely to happen though. I've made it known that I'm not talking to her until she agrees to the conditions I gave and believes her relationship with OM was a mistake, and that just because I'd talk to her doesn't mean I'd drop the divorce. This new version of her, definitely don't want that, nope, forget it.


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## jim123

The old version is long gone. You have to realize that. She has been away and with someone else. You too have changed. 

You need to start moving on yourself. That is the best and most effective way to lift fog. Since August she has not had to make a choice. No she does but knows she has time.


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## Shadow_Nirvana

NotDoneYet said:


> I want her back if she comes out of the fog and truly is remorseful.


You shouldn't be wanting her back, that's the problem. She should be coming to you crawling, begging for a chance to do the hard work. No, not even begging, doing the hard work of working on her part of issues that caused the infidelity, without even a hint of your approval.


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## bfree

NDY,

Let me be honest. I am all for R but it can only happen if BOTH want it more than anything else. You shouldn't consider R with your stbxw unless and until she moves out of the OM's place and has an extended period of NC. Then and only then should you even think about R. Even in a marriage where both parties are still living together R doesn't even begin until the affair is over and NC has been established. In your case she moved out and is living with the OM. She chose that action and she needs to find a way out of that situation if she truly wants you to consider her in the future. I know you want her back but let me warn you about something. As others have said she is not the woman you remember. That woman ceased to exist a long time ago. What you want is that old woman back. But you need to realize that can never be. What you are faced with is a choice to move on or to establish a relationship with this new woman. Please think about this carefully because this new woman has already proven to be manipulative, devious and fully capable of inflicting the most severe pain on you that anyone can force upon another. Another thing, many times the BS focuses and works so hard on getting the WS back that once they are back the BS finds they really don't want them anymore. This is especially true if the WS is not really doing the heavy lifting in order to R and rebuild trust. Your attitude should be completely indifferent toward R and if it happens then you will be able to objectively judge how successful it can and will be as you go through it. I know you still love her even after all she put your through but remember that you do not love this woman, you love the woman she was and no longer is. You can mourn your marriage and the death of the woman your wife used to be. But do not establish a relationship with her evil twin sister unless she shows by actions that she is worthy of you.


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## Jasel

NotDoneYet said:


> Right, I don't think she's remorseful. She is apologizing and saying she wants to come back, which is an improvement, but not nearly enough.


Flapping her gums and telling you what you want to hear is not an improvement. If anything it's manipulation. CONCRETE ACTION ON HER PART would be an improvement.

Actions, not words, are what you need to look for before even considering letting her back into your life. If she REALLY wanted to reconcile with you, and was serious about it, she'd move Heaven and Earth to get you back and to prove that she's changed or is at least trying to. Especially after what she's done. From what I can tell she hasn't done anything except talk. 

Which is apparently more than enough for you to let her back in your life and give her another chance to screw you over which apparently you've convinced yourself is going to give you some type of closure. 

And I'm honestly not even sure that's a legitimate reason as much as you simply want your wife back no matter what she's done and you're just trying to convince yourself otherwise. Because I'm sorry that reasoning still doesn't make sense. You need to stop listening to your feelings and start using common sense.

Read about someone like Rookie4's wife, or ChangingMe or CantstandStill who post here. You can tell they're remorseful and were willing to put in the effort through their ACTIONS to make their relationships work. Or at the very least try to help their spouses get over what they did.

You don't even sound like you believe your wife is even close to being capable of doing something like that for YOU.

If you want her back because you want her back, then just say so. That would at least be understandable. 



> I don't want her to live with me. But because she lives 7 hours away with no job, and doesn't know anyone else in the city I live in she could stay with, should she want to R the choice is let her stay with me until she gets a job & apartment or she stays where she's at, gets a job, signs a lease, further plants herself there, and we delay R for several more months until she gets enough money to move here, find another apartment, and get another job. I don't want her to live with me. She needs time alone to figure herself out.


You keep making excuses and rationalizations for her. Like I said, if she REALLY wants to be with you she would find a way to make it work without you, her Plan B, giving her a helping hand. And you'd be willing to wait months on end for her for a chance to R? Really?

I'm sorry you still come off as co-dependant on this person.


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## sharkeey

You say you'll allow her to stay with you if she agrees to your conditions and shows remorse. Ok, that's reasonable. 

So what does she say in all those texts and any voicemail messages (since you aren't answering the phone).

Maybe you can share them with your helpful forum members so we can gauge her level of sincerity.


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## theroad

bfree said:


> NDY,
> 
> I just want to point out something that should be obvious but maybe you've overlooked. She is still living with the OM right? So she sends you an email which you are supposed to see as her being remorseful. Then after she hits "send" she crawls into bed with him and allows him to "plow her fields." So how much remorse is she actually showing? Remember...actions....not words.


If his WW was through with the OM she would not hit the send button then get into bed to get plowed by OM.

If WW was through with the OM she would of grabbed her clothes and leave OM and go back to her parents house. Not stay and bang the OM again.

Poor BH, this guy thinks Denial is a river in Egypt.


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## hookares

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> So now that she's broke and pissed away half the money that should've been going into the joint kitty, she wants to come back. Did I get that right?
> 
> How much of your money did she spend on the OM?
> 
> If you won't listen to our advice against R with this woman, please listen to this one: DON'T GET HER PREGNANT!


If he's going to follow this advice, he better get her sterilized.
He already knows he isn't the only player in there.


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## sharkeey

It took me a bunch of pages and a whole lot of posts by the Op to understand where he's coming from.

I get it, and if everyone else gets it they'll go a bit easier. I hope.

Sometimes I pretend that I can sprout wings or turn myself into a ball of flame and hurl fireballs, or swing between buildings using webs shot from my wrists and beat up all the bad guys and be a hero.

I know logically that it will never happen, but I like to fantasize or day dream because it's a nice distraction from the stresses of every day life, whether they be related to my job, or post divorce or relationship issues.

There's really nothing wrong with doing that.

Unless of course I actually was to jump out a 20th floor window thinking I'm going to shoot a web or sprout wings.

No harm done here folks.

Let the man dream.


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## TRy

NotDoneYet said:


> I've made it known that I'm not talking to her until she agrees to the conditions I gave and believes her relationship with OM was a mistake, and that just because I'd talk to her doesn't mean I'd drop the divorce. This new version of her, definitely don't want that, nope, forget it.


 This new version of her is all that is left. The woman that woke up in the morning in your bed knowing what it meant to be your wife is no longer there and can never come back. She in practice is no longer your wife. She cannot un-live the life that she has now lived; it is now a part of her. This new version of her is who she now is. If this new version is not what you want, then you are just chasing a memory. If you are to have a life together it will not be with the person that she once was. Any future plans need to take this fact into account.


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## staystrong

As a former doormat to another, I can tell you that you are still exhibiting major doormat tendencies. 

I challenge you to offer up things that your wife has said or done that would make any one here believe she means it. 

She probably feels some love for you, but her main love is for herself. What pleases her, what makes her feel powerful, desired, etc. You are ensnared in her web. 

Maybe she's 80% good and 20% bad, but that 20% is really nasty and self-serving. 

Personally, I would like you to bust up her relationship with OM by revealing all her texts to you. It's payback time.


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