# Simple Question for a Complicated Issue



## Maxtro (Apr 26, 2017)

Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?

I compare it to... Does a person who refuses to get an oil change for their car, deserve a car that never burns out?

I know this is a huge oversimplification but I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinions.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

We often do not get what we deserve, good _or_ bad. However, behaviors have consequences, and those may be outside of your control.


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

That's kind of a loaded question, lol. As much as being faithful to each other is part of the marriage vows, sex is a very important part of the marriage or any relationship. If a spouse actually refuses to have sex, I would want to know the reasons for the refusal. If those reasons are something that you know can't be worked on or changed, then it's time to move on and divorce. I myself had a similar situation for years where my now almost ex-wife was never in the mood for one reason or another. I did remain faithful up until the divorce proceedings started, it wasn't until then that I put myself out there and started going on dates.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

There are medications one can take to tamp down sexual desire so it can match the partner's. Nobody is entitled to have sex.

If my wife was dissatisfied with our sexual life I would be happy to stop having sex with her, and allow her to seek sexual satisfaction form elsewhere, as long as she didn't get pregnant or spend our family budget on these other guys. I am not a selfish person.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Maxtro said:


> Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?
> 
> I compare it to... Does a person who refuses to get an oil change for their car, deserve a car that never burns out?
> 
> I know this is a huge oversimplification but I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinions.


It’s called a divorce. Why anyone would stay forever without sex is beyond me. If you stay and cheat now you are just adding more pain and complications.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Maxtro said:


> Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?
> 
> I compare it to... Does a person who refuses to get an oil change for their car, deserve a car that never burns out?
> 
> I know this is a huge oversimplification but I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinions.




A person who never has sex with their spouse deserves a ****ty car  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> A person who never has sex with their spouse deserves a ****ty car
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Nobody, in theory, deserves a crappy car nor a frigid spouse!

Divorce is the applicable option!*


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Sex and communication are very important in a healthy marriage. But if for some reason this person physically can't participate then you have to consider that.. That's being understanding and patient for the person you love. HOWEVER if this person is just being difficult and refuses to be intimate because they simply don't want to then you have to think about what your willing to risk. Many people choose to divorce and move on. Then others choose to stay in the relationship hoping things will change or even cheat making things more complicated.


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## Maxtro (Apr 26, 2017)

Randy Lafever said:


> There are medications one can take to tamp down sexual desire so it can match the partner's. Nobody is entitled to have sex.
> 
> If my wife was dissatisfied with our sexual life I would be happy to stop having sex with her, and allow her to seek sexual satisfaction form elsewhere, as long as she didn't get pregnant or spend our family budget on these other guys. I am not a selfish person.



If you both agree to that, there’s nothing wrong with it. I have a follow up question for that scenario. Let’s say your wife was dissatisfied with your sexual relationship, and as you suggested, requested that sex from you stop, and she be allowed to seek sex elsewhere. You agree to this. So far so good. Now she’s having sex elsewhere and responsibly (as you said, not getting pregnant or spending money). You therefore are having sex with nobody. A little ways into this arrangement, if you decide “I’d like to be having sex as well.” You ask your wife it she’d be okay with you seeking sex elsewhere also, as long as the same responsibility as to safe/protected sex and spending is observed. If she says something along the lines of “absolutely not, you are my husband and I don’t want you having sex with anyone else.” A) Are you fine with this answer? B) If yes (or no for that matter), are you still fine with her arrangement for her sex? Just curious.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

Maxtro said:


> If you both agree to that, there’s nothing wrong with it. I have a follow up question for that scenario. Let’s say your wife was dissatisfied with your sexual relationship, and as you suggested, requested that sex from you stop, and she be allowed to seek sex elsewhere. You agree to this. So far so good. Now she’s having sex elsewhere and responsibly (as you said, not getting pregnant or spending money). You therefore are having sex with nobody. A little ways into this arrangement, if you decide “I’d like to be having sex as well.” You ask your wife it she’d be okay with you seeking sex elsewhere also, as long as the same responsibility as to safe/protected sex and spending is observed. If she says something along the lines of “absolutely not, you are my husband and I don’t want you having sex with anyone else.” A) Are you fine with this answer? B) If yes (or no for that matter), are you still fine with her arrangement for her sex? Just curious.


Well first off I can't imagine my sex drive increasing to the point where I would actually pursue sex.

But I think first I would try to have sex with her, as her arrangement was purely because of my own lack of interest in sex. If I were unable to get her to agree to that, hard to tell, probably would take the medicine to decrease sex drive so it wouldn't be an issue anymore.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

A) Yes. B) Yes. I figure you created the problem and did not anticipate the consequences, so you should live with them. Now that you want sex, can that be trusted to last, or that you'll meet her needs now when you wouldn't/couldn't previously? Of course, you can divorce, which may be the best choice for everyone.


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

My engine seized up. It wasn't pretty. I skidded down the highway for many years trying to pretend that everything was ok cuz my kids were in the car. If you're not going to do the proper maintenance, you really shouldn't be driving anymore.

I have since had an overhaul. The engine purrs and I'm zooming down the highway in that stereotypical red convertible with my hair flying in the wind. It may be my last ride, but I'm enjoying that new car smell. I really don't care where I'm going.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

"You don't get what you deserve in life only what you negotiate for"

So if your spouse offers you a sexless relationship and you accept it, you've negotiated for a bad deal. If they offer it to you and you walk away from the marriage, you've changed the negotiation and they've accepted a bad deal. If they offer it to you and you cheat, you've also changed the negotiation where you both get a bad deal. The question is what type of person do you want to be and how do you want to live your life? Personally, I don't do things that I would be ashamed of, so I don't cheat. If I was in a sexless relationship I'd just end the relationship and find someone else. However, by having and projecting that attitude, I've not had to deal with a sexless relationship.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its a very complicated question because there are such a wide range of reasons people may turn down sex. 

I think that unless otherwise agreed, sex is assumed to be part of marriage, and that if sex goes away, someone is under no moral obligation to stay in the marriage. 

Sometimes of course leaving a marriage is not practical. I am in the minority here that if someone has made every reasonable attempt to fix their sex life, and if the lack of sex is not due to illness on the part of their spouse, then I will not fault anyone for cheating. This is definitely a minority view


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Maxtro said:


> Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?
> 
> I compare it to... Does a person who refuses to get an oil change for their car, deserve a car that never burns out?
> 
> I know this is a huge oversimplification but I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinions.


Using the example of changing the oil for the car... What if the mechanic that does oil changes for a car feels really entitled to the business, but the car owner drives an electric model that does not use any oil. Years go by with no oil changes and the car keeps running along just fine. The mechanic sees his shop fold and has to file for bankruptcy. 

I compare this to a simpleton of an oil change mechanic that refuses to rethink his business model and learn to install solar panels, inverters, battery banks, and charging control meters at the home of the car owner which would be way more freaking lucrative than just a $14.95 lube job here and there. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

No oil change, but a lube job. Do need some total car care, but it just ain't happening. Perhaps it's time to rent?


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

Maxtro said:


> Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?
> 
> I compare it to... Does a person who refuses to get an oil change for their car, deserve a car that never burns out?
> 
> I know this is a huge oversimplification but I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinions.


You could get a divorce like everyone will tell you, but to me that's not always the answer. I would ask her if you can get it elsewhere and go from there.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Maxtro said:


> Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?
> 
> .


I think a better way to word it is, a person who outright rejects their partner and refuses to do anything to meet their partner's needs cannot expect their partner to remain married to them or expect them to remain exclusive to them.

If someone does not wan to have sex with their partner that is their right.

But they do not have the right to involuntarily force their partner into celibacy and they do not have the right to expect their partner to remain with them. 

I do not mean that as a blanket justification for infidelity. But I do think that once someone unilaterally decides to end the marital sex life, they waive all rights to their partner's sexual exclusivity and waive their expectation of a lasting marriage. 

If you knowingly and intentionally deny your partner, all bets are off.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Maxtro said:


> Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?
> 
> I compare it to... Does a person who refuses to get an oil change for their car, deserve a car that never burns out?
> 
> I know this is a huge oversimplification but I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinions.


Every person deserves a faithful spouse. If this is such a thing isn't possible divorce. You only debase your own self worth.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

anastasia6 said:


> Every person deserves a faithful spouse. If this is such a thing isn't possible divorce. You only debase your own self worth.


In a case where a spouse voluntarily goes cold turkey, divorce is probably the best option. However if divorce isn't a reasonable option, and sometime its not, a little action on the side will do wonders for a starving spouses state of mind. In respect to self worth, having the person that is suppose to want you, cut off intimacy is about as damaging to self worth as it gets. Somebody willing to take the time and the risk to be with you puts a little snap back into your step. It has a way of mitigating the doubt you have in yourself and pinning the tail on the person who is really responsible for the ice forming in the marital bed.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

Randy Lafever said:


> There are medications one can take to tamp down sexual desire so it can match the partner's. Nobody is entitled to have sex.
> 
> 
> 
> If my wife was dissatisfied with our sexual life I would be happy to stop having sex with her, and allow her to seek sexual satisfaction form elsewhere, as long as she didn't get pregnant or spend our family budget on these other guys. I am not a selfish person.



I hope this is sarcasm. Cuckolding is a form of male psychological disorder related to masachism, IMO.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

Edmund said:


> I hope this is sarcasm. Cuckolding is a form of male psychological disorder related to masachism, IMO.


Only if you think that you own your wife's sexuality. If I was the cook of the house, would I be upset if my wife ate at Burger King one day? No, she was hungry. She had a need, she found a way to meet that need when I was unable to (she was out of the house).

If I can't meet my wife's sexual needs I have no issue with her seeking another way to meet them, as long as we have established ground rules about it.

At present I am having little difficulty meeting my wife's need for sex every three months or so. One day that may change. I care for her, so I would never want to deprive her.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Maxtro said:


> If you both agree to that, there’s nothing wrong with it. I have a follow up question for that scenario. Let’s say your wife was dissatisfied with your sexual relationship, and as you suggested, requested that sex from you stop, and she be allowed to seek sex elsewhere. You agree to this. So far so good. Now she’s having sex elsewhere and responsibly (as you said, not getting pregnant or spending money). You therefore are having sex with nobody. A little ways into this arrangement, if you decide “I’d like to be having sex as well.” You ask your wife it she’d be okay with you seeking sex elsewhere also, as long as the same responsibility as to safe/protected sex and spending is observed. If she says something along the lines of “absolutely not, you are my husband and I don’t want you having sex with anyone else.” A) Are you fine with this answer? B) If yes (or no for that matter), are you still fine with her arrangement for her sex? Just curious.


Idk where your questions are coming from. Weird scenarios.

If a spouse is *refusing* to have sex with you, you have 2 options. 1) Inform them you intend to have an active sex life and you prefer it be within a monogamous marriage. But if they refuse to have sex with you, you will seek it elsewhere. (basically give them fair notice that the marriage will go open if they continue to refuse). This strategy is intended to wake them up and get the conversation going. 2) Divorce.

The option not acceptable is to cheat on them. So, agree on an open marriage or divorce.

Now if the open marriage is agreed upon as per your post above, the husband has the same choices of an agreed upon open marriage or divorce. The scenario is really bizarre where he would have agreed to her having sex with others but he isn't "allowed" to. That's not really an open marriage. I would call it cuckoldry. So no, I am not ok with her answer and I would _never_ have been ok with the arrangement in the first place!


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

Thor said:


> If a spouse is *refusing* to have sex with you, you have 2 options. 1) Inform them you intend to have an active sex life and you prefer it be within a monogamous marriage. But if they refuse to have sex with you, you will seek it elsewhere. (basically give them fair notice that the marriage will go open if they continue to refuse). This strategy is intended to wake them up and get the conversation going. 2) Divorce.


Or, obviously, 3) Just don't have sex.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If one's spouse doesn't want sex and you do, then there are options:
divorce, because you are being deprived a basic human need/desire.
get medical help if possible and solve the problem of the want.

Cheat and get sex elsewhere? That's not in the cards for a non-cheater. Only cheaters do that. A non-cheater files for divorce and keeps their honor and dignity.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

Randy Lafever said:


> Only if you think that you own your wife's sexuality. If I was the cook of the house, would I be upset if my wife ate at Burger King one day? No, she was hungry. She had a need, she found a way to meet that need when I was unable to (she was out of the house).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You are so controlling! You won't let get pregnant with the man of her choice? Why not? You don't own her womb you know. And you won't let her spend money? What is this, the 1950s? The little woman is on an allowance!


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Maxtro said:


> Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?
> 
> I compare it to... Does a person who refuses to get an oil change for their car, deserve a car that never burns out?
> 
> I know this is a huge oversimplification but I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinions.


 A person who withholds sex does not deserve to be married. That's why a person with character leaves instead of cheating.

Cheating doesnt say anything about anyone's character but the cheater's.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

Edmund said:


> You are so controlling! You won't let get pregnant with the man of her choice? Why not? You don't own her womb you know. And you won't let her spend money? What is this, the 1950s? The little woman is on an allowance! PM her phone number and a picture of her to me. If she isn't butt ugly I'll be happy to bang her at least once a week, and I'm in my 60s. I understand that frequent sex with spouse is not as good for a cuckold as jacking off while she is ****ing someone else.


I doubt I qualify as a "cuckold" because I don't have any sexual feelings in her direction at all. And I certainly couldn't masturbate if I was thinking about her. 

It's hard enough with porn stars. I mean, difficult. You know what I meant.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

I wouldn't say they deserve an unfaithful spouse. They deserve divorce papers. Even in your analogy, if your car burns out, you would get rid of it and buy a new ride. You wouldn't rent a car and keep the burnt out one in the garage, washing it, keeping it clean, sitting in it for old time's sake. Nah, you would just get rid of it entirely.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I wouldn't say they deserve an unfaithful spouse. They deserve divorce papers. Even in your analogy, if your car burns out, you would get rid of it and buy a new ride. You wouldn't rent a car and keep the burnt out one in the garage, washing it, keeping it clean, sitting in it for old time's sake. Nah, you would just6 get rid of it entirely.


This


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Randy Lafever said:


> There are medications one can take to tamp down sexual desire so it can match the partner's. Nobody is entitled to have sex.
> 
> If my wife was dissatisfied with our sexual life I would be happy to stop having sex with her, and allow her to seek sexual satisfaction form elsewhere, as long as she didn't get pregnant or spend our family budget on these other guys. I am not a selfish person.


That's a bit skewed....everyone is indeed entitled to try and (legally) have sex as much as they desire. Their success may vary.

But in a "dry" M, that can be the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. 
It's like a fisherman saying he/she KNOWS no fish actually exist in the pond they're fishing in.....either they accept just sitting in bank as the objective or they go to a different pond where there are indeed fish and with the right bait and skills they've developed know there's a chance to actually catch a fish.

If "catching" is important, it's only a matter of time before any SO changes ponds.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

Randy Lafever said:


> I doubt I qualify as a "cuckold" because I don't have any sexual feelings in her direction at all. And I certainly couldn't masturbate if I was thinking about her.
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard enough with porn stars. I mean, difficult. You know what I meant.



Sorry, I thought better of, and thought I deleted, the last part of my message. I guess you just have a unique situation and perspective.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Randy Lafever said:


> There are medications one can take to tamp down sexual desire so it can match the partner's. Nobody is entitled to have sex.
> 
> If my wife was dissatisfied with our sexual life I would be happy to stop having sex with her, and allow her to seek sexual satisfaction form elsewhere, as long as she didn't get pregnant or spend our family budget on these other guys. I am not a selfish person.


Wow. Really? I'm not intending to be argumentative, this is just way out there for me.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I think you are asking the wrong question. The question is not does a with holding spouse deserve a faithful partner. The question is do I deserve to be able to look at myself in the mirror every morning, or am I going to toss out my morals based on someone else's behavior?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

What does the word "deserve" even mean?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Maxtro said:


> Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?
> 
> I compare it to... Does a person who refuses to get an oil change for their car, deserve a car that never burns out?
> 
> I know this is a huge oversimplification but I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinions.


No - flat out.

A vow of monogamy in marriage is concomitant with a vow to meet your spouse's sexual needs. I seriously doubt many people, if any, go into marriage with a mindset of "I'll be monogamous with my spouse, and it's okay if my needs aren't met". Having a good sex life in marriage is an expectation, as unpleasant as that may sound to some people.

Faithfulness in marriage is not simply abstaining from intimacy with someone other than your spouse. It is the action of keeping your promises to your spouse, including sex. If you are refusing your spouse on an ongoing basis, you aren't being faithful to him or her, and don't deserve someone who is.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

DTO said:


> Faithfulness in marriage is not simply abstaining from intimacy with someone other than your spouse. It is the action of keeping your promises to your spouse, including sex. If you are refusing your spouse on an ongoing basis, you aren't being faithful to him or her, and don't deserve someone who is.


Agreed. The vows include a lot more than sexual fidelity.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> Faithfulness in marriage is not simply abstaining from intimacy with someone other than your spouse. It is the action of keeping your promises to your spouse, including sex.


Absolutely. That said, I prefer not to be a person whose values are dependent upon the behavior of others.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> Absolutely. That said, I prefer not to be a person whose values are dependent upon the behavior of others.


I completely agree. But the question is not how should I conduct myself; it is what does the other person merit.

I myself take the same view - my values are fairly tough about stuff like this and I hold to them. I was in this situation (refusing spouse) and didn't cheat. But I refrained from cheating not because my ex deserved my faithfulness, but because I simply expected better from myself.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Maxtro said:


> Does a person who refuses to have sex with their spouse, deserve a faithful spouse?
> 
> I compare it to... Does a person who refuses to get an oil change for their car, deserve a car that never burns out?
> 
> I know this is a huge oversimplification but I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinions.


I think that there are better questions to ask.

Why would you stay in a marriage with a woman who refuses to have sex with you?

Why would you consider debasing yourself and having an affair?

Instead of focusing on what she deserves, focus on yourself.


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