# No sex since conception



## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi everyone, I am new at posting but I have a story to tell and would appreciate the views of others.
I have read many other articles that are very similar and decided to add my two cents worth.

I have been and still am living in China for the past 7 years, this is where I met my wife. We had a very normal sex life, averaging nightly basis and we both seemed to enjoy it.
10 months ago we finally got pregnant again after 2mc's and this one went full term, we are now the proud parents of a beautiful baby boy that we both adore.

Now the problem: since conception we have had no intimate relationships of any kind, not even so much as kisses and cuddles.
The only time I can get a hug or a quick peck on the cheek is when I instigate it but even then it seems very begrudgingly on her part.

At first I understood her not wanting to do anything to jeopardize the pregnancy as we had already lost two babies prior round 10 weeks pregnant. So for the first trimester things progressed fine but without any intimacy, I assured myself this would pass as we entered the second trimester..... it didn't.

Then during the third trimester and still nothing I was starting to become annoyed with the situation, but still managed to keep it together. Now the baby is one month old and still no interest in me. 
I realize that a woman needs a month to recuperate after a baby and I accept that, however there still is no hint of things changing.

Being she is Chinese, it is a tradition that the new mother does nothing for the first month, cannot leave the house, cannot do chores or anything else, so inevitably as is the custom, her mother has been living with us for the past 3 months and doing the cooking and cleaning etc. I have been as supportive as I possibly can but for the most part am being squeezed out by the mother-in-law. 

I now get to help with changing nappies and calming the baby when he cries etc. So for the past month my wife has spent almost the entire time in the bedroom with the baby, only coming out to have a quick bite to eat and then returning. At night time while we are in bed I will often try to cuddle her and instigate some foreplay, but am met with an abrupt no and she rolls over. 

I must admit I am becoming extremely frustrated with the situation, but anytime I try anything she gets angry with me and then gives me the silent treatment for the next two days.
Honestly I am now feeling like I am just a roommate who shares the responsibility of a child with her.
She is still spending all her days in the bedroom with the baby even when he is sleeping, she is right beside him either sleeping or just watching over him, either way there is no time in her agenda for me. 

All through the pregnancy I was with her, for every appointment, every ultrasound, every blood test, every NST's and even in the delivery room with her. While she was pregnant, she was not able to reach her feet, so I always helped her to get dressed including putting on and off her shoes, socks and leg warmers etc. and even cutting her toe nails.

The only form of contact between us was when we were out and about, we would hold hands while shopping or whatever. I honestly can't remember the last time she told me she loves me, unless I say it to her first and then I would get a quiet whisper "love you honey" and before sleeping, it is always me who has to reach across and kiss her goodnight and tell her I love her.

The month of isolation ended yesterday and first thing today she went out to the public showers with her mother for a shower and massage and left me with the baby which was fine by me, I am used to being alone, even when she is home.

When she returned she felt a lot more refreshed and went into the room and plucked her eyebrows and trimmed her fringe and did the usual face creams etc. that she hasn't been able to use for the past 10 months.... Hopefully this is a sign of things returning to normal, but I can bet my bottom dollar the intimacy problem is not going to go away for a long time yet.

Well that's my story, hopefully I will have better news next time


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi Red, congrats on the birth of your son! 

Interesting cultural twist on your very common problem. I didn't know about that tradition. Sure wish that was tradition here! I totally missed out in some pampering. I am under the impression, and I may be way off base, but aren't Chinese women expected to be a tad subservient to their husbands also? If this is the case, how does she respond to you when you initiate affection or try to initiate sex?

It is very common for the huge changes in hormones during pregnancy and postpartum to wreak havoc on a woman's sex drive. Some experience a higher drive, while others experience zero drive. So this may also be playing a role in your wife's lack of drive.

However, lack of sex drive doesn't or shouldn't preclude her from affection toward you. Lack of sex drive doesn't affect how she feels about you and her wish for you to be a happy husband.

What have your conversations with her been like when you ask her why she no longer returns your affection? Who's decision was it to stop having sex during her pregnancy? Did you two decide this together? Did she place a moratorium on sex during pregnancy, or did you just assume no sex and thus stop initiating? Did you assume she would read your mind and know her husband isn't having sex with her in a misguided attempt to protect the pregnancy, as opposed to feeling sexually rejected by her husband?

After the birth of your son, she remained in bed, then when the month was up she began to take care of herself again, showering, cosmetics etc. During the month of bed rest, she turned you away. So was this the first time you initiated sex the whole 10 months? 

Have you explained to her that you are hurt that she no longer initiates affection, and or sex? Have you explained to her that both men and women need affection, just like babies need to be touched, held and comforted to grow, so does a marriage. As an adult, you can temporarily put your needs on hold, but only for so long.

Have you considered that she is waiting for you to demonstrate that she remains the love of your life, remains to be the beautiful woman you married and that you expect to be able to have regular sex in your marriage? When you had those conversations, what did she say?

Talk to your wife!!!!


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Wow, sounds like you are getting the worst of the old culture and the new....No contact from the old, and hands off I'm a modern woman from the new.....

Sorry about the MC's, they are emotionally painful, but part of life and nature. I was lucky when my wife was pregnant. Absolutely no change in our daily sex routine tight up to labor. We had sex ar 10:00 PM and her water broke at 2:00 AM......

Hope the wife warms up soon.....


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

she could be suffering PPD. It kills the sex drive as well as intimacy, and can even lead to her displaying resentments. I'd suggest seeing the doctor if possible and you need to COMMUNICATE with her.


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## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi everyone and thanks for your responses,
I will try to answer all.... I will start if I may with Anon Pink, I hope I can answer everything you asked lol.

Firstly, thanks for the congrats 
As for the subservience, this may have been true of her mothers era and still is the case with older women, however my wife is a modern and very independent business lady, and this trend does not carry with the younger generation of today.
As far as initiating intimacy is concerned, She will tolerate it when I come up to her and give her a hug and light kiss on the lips, or if I come from behind as I like to do when she has her back to me and wrap my arms around her and nuzzle into her nape and kiss her earlobes. But.... anything more than that is a definite NO!!
She will not allow me to touch her anywhere provocative, whether in bed or elsewhere. So many times I have in no uncertain terms let her know I am in the mood as it were, but she will roll over and give me a very clear message she is not interested. Any time I try to talk to her about it, she switches off to me totally.... I mean totally and if I push the topic further she becomes annoyed and then comes the silent treatment for the next two days.
I do understand PPD and the effects it can and does have on women, and I try to be considerate as possible at all times, but sometimes enough is enough and I get a little frustrated. Honestly I think this is something else, I may be right off base but I feel like its more to do with her wanting a baby for so long and now she has it she no longer needs me.... I know that sounds horrible and I don't for a second believe she doesn't love me, more that she just cant tolerate me at this time.

As for conversations, its like trying to talk to a stone wall when it is something she doesn't wish to discuss. and nothing will change her mind on that..... Culturally there are still many things she does still abide by, and one of those remnants of subservience is that you do not discuss anything intimate, sexually explicit or considered (by her) to be crass or crude.
It's impossible to even discuss things like fantasy or any thing with her, again she switches off completely. I have tried fantasy and role play to try and break the ice on occasions but she wont have it.

The decision to stop having sex was hers and hers alone, I had no say in it whatsoever. She made up her mind and that was it.
I assure you I haven't ever stopped trying to initiate it, I will make the moves and try to initiate some foreplay but she simply pulls away, rolls over or slaps my hands away and gets angry if I continue to pursue it further. 

Without trying to sound obscene, I have been taking care of business myself on an almost nightly basis while laying next to her and she simply ignores it and goes to sleep sometimes muttering a tsk of disapproval.

I have tried to explain that I too have needs, and she gets that same look on her face as if to say "here we go again" rolling her eyes and looking away, the most she will say at any given time is that she just doesn't feel like it.

As for assuring her of my love and affection, I constantly tell her how much I love her and how she is my world, I look right into her eyes in the few moments where I can give her a cuddle and filled with passion and emotion I tell her at least 10 times a day, so many times I feel my eyes well up with the pent up emotions I feel for her. Constantly telling her how beautiful she is and that I wish I could find the words to say that which the English language has no real words to say.

I know this sounds really wimpy and feminine but I assure you I am not.... this is true emotions and they are coming from a typical Aussie bloke. You know the kind who don't like to show any weakness and a man never cries kind of bloke.


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

Congrats on the birth of your baby boy! Sorry to hear about the sexlessness! I'm hoping the pampering she is doing is to help her feel like a woman and will lead to intimacy. I'm crashing my fingers for you, man!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

red, it sounds like you are doing everything possible to be supportive. I am so sorry that her culture support this lack of communication. We both know this is not a good way to have a happy marriage.

What do you think about telling her you want to have sex .....times per week, the. Assuring her what her number would be. 

But to go without for 10 months? Red, I think you've got a hard road ahead since she has grown used to not meeting your needs.


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## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Woodchuck and Kaboom,
Thanks for the input also.
I have thought of the possibility of PPD but as mentioned above, I think this is something more than that. Although often I do feel she resents me, in fact with the first pregnancy, she literally despised me and I could not even sit within any proximity of her. She refused to even sleep with me during that time. It was like living with a grizzly bear..... truly.

As for the mc's, yes it definitely is part and parcel of having children, sometimes it's just not meant to be and usually there is a reason. We came to accept them as something that happened in the past and never gave up hope of a full term baby.... which we now have 

Thanks Woodchuck, just what I want to hear.... everyone else getting a regular fix right up to delivery hehehehe (Joking)

Ok I really don't want to come off as some whingy, whiney twerp.... so I will leave it at that for now

Thanks to all for your input


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## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks for the wishes Joe Henderson, I really do appreciate the support from everyone.... I really hate to air my dirty laundry like this but I found this site and thought, this maybe just the thing I need to vent and release some stress.

Anon Pink, I believe I am doing everything humanly possible to accommodate her needs, and I am hoping that things will eventually return to some normality maybe sometime in the foreseeable future. As I said I really truly love her with all my heart and sole and I do not wish this to end in a war or worse still a bitter divorce simply because of lack of sex. We have been having a few spats over the past 2 days, so I dare not even approach the subject of sex, let alone setting any numeric value to it lol.

Just a little something more..... since her pregnancy began, we have had her birthday, Christmas, New Year, Valentines Day (which is also my birthday) and Chinese New Year.... and guess who never even got a kiss or hug for any of these events


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> red, it sounds like you are doing everything possible to be supportive. I am so sorry that her culture support this lack of communication. We both know this is not a good way to have a happy marriage.
> 
> What do you think about telling her you want to have sex .....times per week, the. Assuring her what her number would be.
> 
> *But to go without for 10 months? Red, I think you've got a hard road ahead since she has grown used to not meeting your needs.*


Why not make it exact 12 months (1 year). After a year of no sex, I think Mr. Red has every right to question her wife.


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## MattG254 (Feb 26, 2013)

Dang Red, that's tough! My advice to you is to actually seek out a sexual counselor. You also need to find a way to tell your wife in no uncertain terms that her not communicating with you isn't working out. Lack of communication is one of the main reasons marriages fail nowadays. I'm sure you tell her you love her and try to show her. Express to her how you feel about sex with her...with my wife, I try to remind her that I don't love her because I have sex with her, but rather I have sex with her because I love her. Tell her in VERY specific language that you MUST have attention too. This might seem selfish, but after all...you are truly suffering here. If a wo/man doesn't "feel" like it every single night, that's one thing...but to NEVER "feel" like having sex is a very bad problem indeed! If none of this works, I believe you need to seek professional help. Best wishes to you, and congratulations on your new baby!


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## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi John,
Thanks for the input.
That sounds reasonable to me.... however another year seems so far away.... not sure if I can hold out that long 

I was just sitting here thinking a moment ago and thought I am sure in a year or two she will be ready for another baby and then she will be all over me again..... funny what the mind thinks at times.

But sometimes I do get that impression..... that the only reason we were having sex and so frequently before was so she could become pregnant.... in Chinese terms she is not a young woman anymore.... if a woman is not married and at least one child by the time she is in her mid 20's..... she is considered a spinster.

My wife had resigned herself to being alone for the rest of her life before we met (she was 32).... she has mentioned that several times.


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## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi MattG,
Thank you for you comments also,
Wow!! When I posted on here I had no idea how many hits this would get hehehe.
As I stated earlier, I was just hoping to vent my frustrations and maybe find a sympathetic ear.... I certainly got many to choose from lol.

I agree, something really does need to change here, unfortunately I do not know of any marriage Councillors here in China, I'm sure they must exist though. But I think because Chinese... especially woman are so private, they do not discuss these matters with anyone except maybe a close relative like a sister....

I am very confident that she knows how I feel about her, and she knows that it is not a sexual thing that keeps me loving her, or I would have left ages ago. Yes sex is a nice thing but our marriage is so much more than that.

I also find it hard at times to not feel for her and I try to consider how she must be feeling and why she has no appetite. 
For the most part I am not even concerned about the lack of sex.... but at other times I get..... well lets face it "horny as" and then it gets complicated and hard to not make an issue of it.


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## MattG254 (Feb 26, 2013)

Try telling her about the way you feel about sex anyway. It's sort of like the phrase, "I love you". You say it to each other not because you are truly forgetful that you love each other, but rather as assurance and endearment. You also need to try to make her feel sexy. This may seem a bit silly, but face is, in _her_ culture, like you said, she got a "late start". This, on top of a recent pregnancy may be making her feel not sexy. The thing is that even if YOU think she's amazingly sexy and want to just do unimaginably naughty things with her...she might not know this, and when you tell her, she might think you're "just saying" it! There is another post (by a woman) who is experiencing that, I'll link you so that you can see what a gal's perspective is: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/68425-i-am-attracted-my-husband-but.html
If she does not feel sexy in her mind, it is no wonder that she doesn't want sex! Remember that women are creature of emotion and of touch/feeling! Men are creatures of logic. To you this whole ordeal doesn't make "sense"; to her, there is some deeper problem that is hurting her! After all, you may be a strong Aussie chap, but no amount of muscle can tweak an ailing mind! Another thing that I would advise you to do depends on the way the two of your minds work...and that is that you should literally, at night, wrap her up in your arms--whether she likes it or not. You're an adult, so I assume that you will know whether this has a chance of working or not (after all, you're running out of options). I know with my wife, this method always works. I am not talking about asking her if you can cuddle...I'm talking about taking charge and telling her that you are GOING to snuggle up. Now, that being said, do NOT try to go further (at least, for now). Leave it at that. You absolutely MUST get physical contact back from her...more than a quick kiss and hug! Once you can do that, things can only go uphill! You also need to find her "sweet spots"...all women have them! Once you do, start playing with them...even if she protests (even strongly) at first! You must be firm and assertive but gentle.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Red101au said:


> Hi John,
> Thanks for the input.
> That sounds reasonable to me.... however another year seems so far away.... not sure if I can hold out that long


In case of emergency, masturbate. If she object to your masturbation, you have every rights to be angry.



> I was just sitting here thinking a moment ago and thought I am sure in a year or two she will be ready for another baby and then she will be all over me again..... funny what the mind thinks at times.
> 
> *But sometimes I do get that impression..... that the only reason we were having sex and so frequently before was so she could become pregnant*.... in Chinese terms she is not a young woman anymore.... if a woman is not married and at least one child by the time she is in her mid 20's..... she is considered a spinster.
> 
> My wife had resigned herself to being alone for the rest of her life before we met (she was 32).... she has mentioned that several times.


You know, us Asians are perfectly capable of pulling a Bait-And-Switch(TM) too, just like Westerners.. 

If your wife actually did that to you, you really should confront her. That's why I ask you to wait a year. You could confidently say something in the tune of "We had no sex for about a year. You keep on rejecting me. This is not normal, and surely ain't right. What is the problem?"

If she has no intention to be a good wife to you, and using you just to have a baby from you, then you know what to do. The right thing to do.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Was your wife sick when pregnant?

I have to say, that although HD now, i had zero sex drive when pregnant and for at least a year after my babies birth.

I think one month is very soon. 

I would however if things don't return to fairly regular sex after 1 year, then have a talk to your wife about your needs. 

Maybe get a copy of the "his needs, her needs" book, and gently explain how sexual affection is part of a healthy marriage, that you intend to be faithful, but she needs to help you work on having a healthy marriage where both of your sexual and emotional needs are met.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Was your wife sick when pregnant?
> 
> I have to say, that although HD now, i had zero sex drive when pregnant and for at least a year after my babies birth.
> 
> ...


:iagree: 1 year is a reasonable limit. Glad to know someone else is agreeing with me.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Sometimes women don't feel like having sex after delivering a baby, especially if they are nursing. You have your needs, but you are pushing your wife away from you on this issue. She may feel as if you only want her for sex and sex only. This is not a good feeling.

I would relieve yourself alone, not in front of her. Stop asking for a few months and give your wife time to adjust to parenthood. The first few years of the babies life is exhausting. Sex is usually not on the mind. Don't push your wife away.

Also, if you want your wife interested in you again, try meeting her needs. It seems like the both of you are disconnected at the moment. It happens from time to time and it's nothing unusual. Try to see what it takes to meet her needs, then she may be more willing to meet yours.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Also, if you want your wife interested in you again, try meeting her needs. It seems like the both of you are disconnected at the moment. It happens from time to time and it's nothing unusual. Try to see what it takes to meet her needs, then she may be more willing to meet yours.


I agree with this :iagree:

Yes, Mr. Red, try this for a year.

If, after a year of trying to please her, she still doesn't care for your sexual needs, then you know what to do.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

After reading further Red, I'd suggest you just leave her, I don't know what the rules on divorce are there, but there's such a thing as respect and her actions and refusal to speak about the issues shows that she has zero respect for you. I can understand hormonal issues, depression, and PPD, but I cannot fathom how someone who is your spouse and mother of your child can treat you like a used car and just park you on the side of the road. It's inhumane and you deserve better. If nothing else, a divorce notice will at least bring the issues into the spotlight and resolve them one way or the other.

Sorry for your situation.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

What birth control do you use? As I understand it if she gets pregnant again she can be forced to have an abortion. That would be heart breaking. Maybe she is afraid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Whatever you do, don't agree to have another baby with her without sorting this out. If she's in the "sex is for making babies only" mode then you need to nip that in the bud. Otherwise all you're doing is adding to the child support you'll pay....because once she's "done" having babies, that will be the end of it. 

You need to tell her flat out that because of the way she is treating you, you don't want to have another baby with her at all. You don't want it, because you know that you'll just end up sexless again once she gets what she wants.

Oh, and your top priority right now would be to make sure she doesn't hold on to the belief that you're a 100% sure thing. Because that's what she thinks you are right now. She would not feel safe to treat you this way if she thought there was any chance she'd be a single mom because of it.


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Whatever you do, don't agree to have another baby with her without sorting this out. If she's in the "sex is for making babies only" mode then you need to nip that in the bud. Otherwise all you're doing is adding to the child support you'll pay....because once she's "don" having babies, that will be the end of it.
> 
> You need to tell her flat out that because of the way she is treating you, you don't want to have another baby with her at all. You don't want it, because you know that you'll just end up sexless again once she gets what she wants.
> 
> Oh, and your top priority right now would be to make sure she doesn't hold on to the belief that you're a 100% sure thing. Because that's what she thinks you are right now. She would not feel safe to treat you this way if she thought there was any chance she'd be a single mom because of it.


I completely agree, especially with the sure thing point. I made the mistake of communicating that I'm a "sure thing" through my actions and words. it's unfortunate it comes to that, but Working is spot on.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wait, you went through several holidays as well as your birthday and you didn't even get a kiss from her?

Red, can you tell me what are some of the things she does or says to you that makes your believe that she actually loves you. I'm having a hard time seeing that your wife has any feelings for you from the way you have described her.

Second, in the absence of any sort of illness due to pregnancy, there was no reasons NOT to have sex during pregnancy. Now that she has delivered, there is no reason not to have sex. And through it ALL, there was no reason not to kiss you.

I am getting the impression you might be her fall guy instead of The Man. She resigned herself to the indignity of being a worthless spinster, as you say her culture would regard her, then you came along and she jumped at the chance.... I smell a rat!

Red, your wife doesn't get to pick and choose only parts of modernity that suit her needs. The price women pay for equality means we also have an equal burden to make our husbands happy, as they have to make us happy. I don't see your wife applying equality very equally.

Step it up Red. You are her husband and you have every right to not only discuss the state of your sex life, but you also have the right to understand why she refuses to meet your needs.

Time for No More Mr. Nice Guy.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

There is a deifference between not having a sex drive post partum and the absolute lack of affection this woman is showing you. In my humble opinion, you have been duped. I don't expect this to get better. She either got what she wanted and has no use for you, or thinks that you are not going anywhere because of the new baby.....


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Wait, you went through several holidays as well as your birthday and you didn't even get a kiss from her?
> 
> Red, can you tell me what are some of the things she does or says to you that makes your believe that she actually loves you. I'm having a hard time seeing that your wife has any feelings for you from the way you have described her.
> 
> *Red, your wife doesn't get to pick and choose only parts of modernity that suit her needs. The price women pay for equality means we also have an equal burden to make our husbands happy, as they have to make us happy. I don't see your wife applying equality very equally*.


:smthumbup::smthumbup::iagree:

Mrs. Pink, I so admire your commitment to fairness and equality!

I am waiting for your book about true equality to be published!

The comment above and its elaborations are worthy for a book if you ask me! :smthumbup:


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Red101au said:


> As for conversations, its like trying to talk to a stone wall when it is something she doesn't wish to discuss. and nothing will change her mind on that.....


Start the 180. Sex is a responsibility of marriage. Refusing to acknowledge the problem is an act of war.

Talk isn't going to cut it here with her. Start taking action.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Red,
You completely misunderstand this dynamic. She does not RESPECT you. 

A counselor cannot help with that. Only you can. And until you do: she will be repelled by your touch, and will treat you like a servant. 

And her behavior will slowly get WORSE. 

If you are not being a good provider, nothing else will matter. For example if you lose your job and then stay unemployed. 

If you are being a good provider, you have a chance at solving this by doing a 180 and staying with it until she comes fully around or you realize she is not going to. 






Red101au said:


> Hi MattG,
> Thank you for you comments also,
> Wow!! When I posted on here I had no idea how many hits this would get hehehe.
> As I stated earlier, I was just hoping to vent my frustrations and maybe find a sympathetic ear.... I certainly got many to choose from lol.
> ...


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## Thewife (Sep 3, 2007)

I too did not have sex during the entire pregnancy although I have always been HD person. But did give H some pleasure here and there to keep him happy. 

PPD is a possibility here as it may affect the affection, I have many Chinese friends (not from china though) and i don't think the culture calls for no affection its seems like what the others say, she thinks you are sure thing and doesn't seem like she has any respect for you (sorry to say this). Its time to talk to her and put things straight. Do something but do rule out ppd.


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## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi to all,
Sorry I cant actually answer each of you individually as there are so many responses but I will try to touch on each point.
The night before last while we were in bed (with the baby between us mind you) I did actually brush my hand across her breast and her reaction was "don't.. our baby has to suck that" I said to her that I thought she was being ridiculous but took my hand away and moved it to the lower regions, first lightly rubbing her leg and then moving a little higher and she seemed to allow that til I got you know where..... I straight out asked her what her problem is and she replied "don't do those things in front of your son". so I settled for gently rubbing her thighs til we went to sleep.

Last night the baby slept in his crib so I tried my luck again and again she protested, so I asked her what the problem is, and why she has not shown me any affection for the past 10 months, she tried to deny it by saying how she expresses her love in many ways, meaning the fact that she buys clothes and items etc. for me, cooks, and cleans (which we share both of) and all the numerous other things she tried to use as defense. I explained to her that she is using sex as a weapon and by depriving me of it, she is in fact abusing me (spousal abuse) and then had to explain this to her. I went on to tell her "imagine you had a dog who slept on the end of your bed every night and was part of your everyday life. then you bring home a baby and make the dog sleep outside.... the dog wonders why he is being punished" "I am that dog" I told her, and I want to know why I am being punished.
I said to her that I believe she only had sex on such a regular basis before the baby as to become pregnant, and she had the gall to mention another baby in the future... I told her point blank "there will be no more babies, I will not go another 10 months without sex. I also explained to her although sex is not the most important thing in a marriage, it is however still important. I then went on to say that if I do not see any change soon, I will go elsewhere for it and also mentioned that it does not change how I feel about her, it will simply be sex and no emotion.... that got her attention :0

I have no real plans on doing anything like that, but I felt she needed a wake up call. I explained to her that men have needs and desires, we have no control over this. I also mentioned to her that she always held my penis while we were sleeping prior to the baby, then it went to her putting her finger into my belly button (which I found uncomfortable but tolerated) and then to nothing.... 
anyway we actually talked for a few hours and things got thrown around and discussed and I believe she now knows where I am coming from. We spent the rest of the night either spooning or cuddling up together (no sex, but I did get to feel her up quite a bit )

Today was the official luncheon to celebrate the baby's full month (this is a big celebration here) all her family, aunts and uncles etc came for a massive lunch at this fancy restaurant and she was soooo sweet to me all last night and all through today. I have been getting kisses and cuddles all day. And she actually seems a lot happier. 

I am not going to try to push the sex for the next two months I am happy to just cuddle and snuggle etc, but I did tell her during our talk that I will not wait any longer than two more months, that will be a total of 12 months and if still nothing I will find it elsewhere.

I also said to her, the fact that she does not enjoy being stroked and caressed is not normal, and there really must be something wrong with her and that maybe she should check with her doctor.... she said she does enjoy being touched but just doesn't feel like it these days. Anyways, the talk seems to have at least opened her to discussing the problems which she would never do before and I believe this is a step in the right direction.

Oh one more thing, I suggested for her to ask her two sisters if they had sex while pregnant and she gave me a weird look, I then explained that in many if not most cases, a woman's sex drive increases especially during the second and third trimester. I then said I bet they both did and then followed it with "sh*t I bet your mother did too" lol (ain't I a stinker) but at least it gave her food for thought.
As for the birth control thingy.... she is not now nor has she ever used any form of contraception or birth control. 

Ok I will leave it there for now, I hope I covered most of the questions.... think I will have my shower and go to bed and cuddle with my wife.

thanks again everyone for your comments.... they have been invaluable.

ps. Just remembered some other points. 
I did also say to her that it's the lack of affection that I miss most, sex is good but it is not the reason I love her but simply a way of expressing that love.

Another thing, she said part of it is because I did not cut my hair, I said why has that got anything to do with anything? She is always telling me to cut my hair or to shave or what I should wear.
During the winter break, I decided to not cut my hair as we were getting -5 and -7 degrees C here.
My hair is about 1 inch long... she likes me to keep it crew cut and my beard to be like a two day growth (I like to be either clean shaven or have a beard) so she can use it to scratch her face when we cuddle.

I asked her straight out "what about what I like, don't you think I should have a say in how I look?" she said that she only does this because she loves me and wants me to look nice, and that if she didn't love me she wouldn't bother doing this. (Chinese logic?????) 

I then turned it around on her and said "how would you react if I was to tell you how to wear your hair and what clothes you should wear?" to which she replied, "but you don't have any fashion sense and even you say that" which I have said a few times to her when asking her advice on something I am thinking of wearing.

She also tried to use the fact that I am still smoking as a reason, I promised I would try to quit by the time the baby arrived and I haven't (NEVER INSIDE, I ALWAYS GO OUTSIDE). I explained that with all that's going on (or not going on) I have not had the desire to stop as it's the only thing stopping me losing it big time.

I also mentioned to her that I spend all my free time at home with her, I don't go out to pubs and clubs, I don't drink, I don't gamble and I don't sleep around, I don't even have any mates here, the only bad habit I have is smoking.

ok.... bye again


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

Red101au said:


> Hi to all,
> She is always telling me to cut my hair or to shave or what I should wear.
> During the winter break, I decided to not cut my hair as we were getting -5 and -7 degrees C here.
> My hair is about 1 inch long... she likes me to keep it crew cut and my beard to be like a two day growth (I like to be either clean shaven or have a beard) so she can use it to scratch her face when we cuddle.
> ...


She is trying to control you. Then she devalues your equality (opinions) insultingly, that you have no fashion sense or taste, and therefore don't have the right to make equal suggestions (!?). It's crap, she's being a real B.

Abou tthe smoking. If you smoked when she met you and you smoked when she married you, then she needs to accept that she married YOU, for all your good qualities as well as your FAULTS. She didn't marry silly-putty and has no right to try and change you into what she expects you to be. If you let her, she WILL resent you, trust me on that. If you fight her and 
"do whatever the hell you wanna do", then you will probably either end up divorced or earn her respect, but at least she can't claim you as property.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Red101au said:


> ...I said to her that I believe she only had sex on such a regular basis before the baby as to become pregnant, and she had the gall to mention another baby in the future... I told her point blank "there will be no more babies, I will not go another 10 months without sex. I also explained to her although sex is not the most important thing in a marriage, it is however still important. I then went on to say that if I do not see any change soon, I will go elsewhere for it and also mentioned that it does not change how I feel about her, it will simply be sex and no emotion.... that got her attention :0
> 
> I have no real plans on doing anything like that, but I felt she needed a wake up call. ...I am not going to try to push the sex for the next two months I am happy to just cuddle and snuggle etc, but I did tell her during our talk that I will not wait any longer than two more months, that will be a total of 12 months and if still nothing I will find it elsewhere...I also said to her, the fact that she does not enjoy being stroked and caressed is not normal, and there really must be something wrong with her and that maybe she should check with her doctor....


Mr. Red,

It is very good that you have made your feelings and opinions known to your wife.

I hope she gets the idea, and will adjust her behavior accordingly.

And you are correct not to push your needs further, and to wait for 2 more months. Let's see what noticeable improvement(s) that could be perceived during these upcoming 2 months. If there are no or little improvements, then it would be time for another, more serious, talk.

But anyway, I wish your efforts will be successful to restore mutual happiness in your marriage.


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## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks again to all for your responses.

While I agree she is trying to control me and manipulate me at times, and I have said as much to her on many occasions. I do not believe it to be malicious, more to the point I really do believe that she believes she is doing it to make me more presentable for her and myself. My profession (Teacher) is a very highly regarded and respected position in China by the locals.... They honestly hold educators in the highest esteem and for this reason she thinks I should always make the best impression with my appearance.

As for the smoking.... When we first met and started dating, this really didn't bother her as it is one of the most social things done her by Chinese men.... at any meeting of two or more people the cigarettes are being passed back and forth constantly. After my first visit to her home when we met, she actually went out and bought an ashtray for me to use when visiting. Basically since her first pregnancy, this was the time when smoking was a major taboo for her, she said the smell was making her sick so that's when I agreed to smoke outside... not just the apartment but the building lol.

After reviewing all the posts I have made and the responses, I am starting to think I am painting a very dark picture of my wife.... This is not my intention, honestly she is an extremely warm, loving and caring person, it's just since the pregnancy that things have become tedious. I honestly have no doubts in my mind that she does love me and want only the best for me in her naive way. I think a lot of the problem is that she really has no experience in matters of love and relationships, before we met she had only ever had one boyfriend for a short period of time during college, and being her tradition there is no sex before marriage, so that never went any further than the kissing and hugging stage and was short lived.

Update: Last night we got home from the dinner and the baby was somewhat excited and wouldn't go to sleep right away, he didn't finally drop off til just after midnight.
After he was asleep in his crib, my wife then undressed and slid into bed next to me..... naked! she hasn't slept naked since about a month before the baby was due (my idea so she would be dressed if and when the event happened) and not only that but she snuggled up to me and kissed me goodnight. I took this as a good thing and then started lightly stroking her arm which was around me and then let my fingers lightly trace the underside of her breast, avoiding the nipple.... she was ok with me doing that so I then let my thumb gently circle the nipple without actually touching it and still no objections. I decided then to ask if I could give it a quick kiss and she agreed, I then flicked it with my tongue and then she objected and said they are for the baby and if I suck them there will be nothing for the baby.... I assured her I was not going to suck it, just flick it a little and nibble on it lightly.... I was allowed to do that for about 1 minute before she stopped me, by then my other hand was gently stroking her upper thigh and making it's way closer to her private area where I also lightly traced the outline with my finger. she seemed to be enjoying it so I then asked if I could kiss her there and that's when I found out what her problem is (well some of it at least) she said it has a yukky smell and didn't want me to go there but I persisted (not forcibly) and made my way down there where I found no unnatural smell at all and told her so and she asked "really" surprised like. so I was then free to continue which I did and gave her a wonderful time, she was writhing and arching her back and getting extremely turned on...... major breakthrough.

Sorry about being so graphic, but what I am trying to convey is that she is slowly coming around.

I guess what I had told her... or threatened her with must have sunk in and once she accepted it and allowed herself to feel again..... she enjoyed it.
Well this is a small step but a very hopeful one of things returning to normal.

I assured her that I was content with this and the snuggling, I just need to feel her body against mine and her arms wrapped around me, and that there is so much more to love making and affection than the actual act of intercourse.

I will keep you informed 
One happy chappy!!!


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## not_bubba (Feb 9, 2013)

You probably do not want to hear this. But my wife is similar to yours in outlook, sex needs, etc. With her first pregnancy, there was no sex after conception, then no sex for well after a year after delivery when she stopped breast feeding. She also refused to discuss anything. We did not have any relative support and I also did a lot at home (much more than average at least while working full time). Our son was also quite difficult (colic and very active and never sleeps much but is very healthy). I was no where near as pushy as you, but the most she told me is that she felt no desire and was preoccupied with the baby though she also sort of lied saying she wanted to get back to normal (which was way way too low frequency for me also) at one point perhaps to string me along. She is also the type that needs everything setup right and is somewhat self-centered and I probably did too much in an understanding role. But what really shocked me was late in the cycle I said I was getting physically sick from stress (was true ... I am very fit but was developing bad cardiac irregularities from stress over it all) and even that did not get so much as questions of concern. I told her I could not live like this (due to the problems) and we would need to mutually find someone else for sex but I don't think she thought I was serious. 

Well, I was serious, and I had an affair, got caught eventually, and that caused further problems. By then she was pregnant again (though did not take much sex unfortunately ... just a few times and only 1x per month just to get pregnant which is probably what she wants in terms of frequency and she does enjoy it to make it all the more odd). Now she is about 7 month pregnant and you guessed it ... no sex since conception. I assume this will go on about 2 years more this time due to the added stress from my affair ... which was purely physical and she knows that and does not doubt it. I was not in as much trouble from the affair as I expected, BUT she wanted it ended. So now I am back to being a prisoner of sorts. 

By the way, my wife is also foreign but I don't think that has a lot to do with it all .... though she also would NEVER talk to a counselor and that aspect is cultural. I also would never get the "we need to talk ..." American woman nightmare but the flip side of no discussion and silence is not utopia either. I get the feeling of being played for support in a more or less fake marriage. After (hopefully all will be ok) son #2 is born, I think I will try shifting to being more assertive about getting this fixed, having an open marriage, or divorcing. 

You are probably doing things right by pressing your case. But realize she may really not be into it and just fake for a long time if you force the issue a lot ... which is something I did not want to get into with my wife. But I suspect you are in big big trouble with long-term sex frequency from what you wrote.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Red101au said:


> I guess what I had told her... or threatened her with must have sunk in and once she accepted it and allowed herself to feel again..... she enjoyed it.
> 
> Well this is a small step but a very hopeful one of things returning to normal.


:smthumbup: See? Direct communication does works  Glad to hear that your marriage seemed to be on the way of recovery.

I wish you good luck, Mr. Red!


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## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi not bubba,
Thanks for your comments, listening to you I get the impression we are kindred spirits in our marriages. I am sorry to hear how the situation has effected you physically, and now it seems like you will need to go through it all again with the second child on the way.

I can appreciate all you have said and it does ring very familiar with me just on a shorter time scale at this time. I must say it has been affecting me in terms of stress and bouts of depression at times, which has returned quite a number of spats between myself and the wife. Usually some stupid thing that I normally wouldn't even raise an eyebrow to.

I must admit I am not the easiest person to get along with at the best of times, and this added stress doesn't help matters.

For the most part I can say my wife is very understanding and tolerant and she is such a caring, loving and generous person, and a devoted mother, it's just since the pregnancy that she seems to have done this 180.


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## Red101au (Feb 25, 2013)

john lord, as you say "Direct communication does work"
I have always known, believed and practiced this, unfortunately this can only work if both parties are willing to do it  and as stated previously, my wife refused to discuss anything that made her uncomfortable or that she didn't feel appropriate. 

I must admit I am a very direct person and sometimes people are not quite sure how to take what I say or what I mean as I call a spade a spade and I will always tell it the way it is, I don't believe in beating about the bush. I think that total honesty sometimes is too confrontational for most people lol

I also think part of the problem for my wife when it comes to talking about problems is she is not fluent enough in her English to really convey what she wants to say and doe not wish to say something in case she says it wrong and creates a bigger problem with misinterpretation. Which has happened in the past where she has said something to me and it was totally not what she was trying to say.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Red101au said:


> john lord, as you say "Direct communication does work"
> I also think part of the problem for my wife when it comes to talking about problems is she is not fluent enough in her English to really convey what she wants to say and doe not wish to say something in case she says it wrong and creates a bigger problem with misinterpretation. Which has happened in the past where she has said something to me and it was totally not what she was trying to say.


Mr. Red,

In that case, I think it will be worth the time for her to take serious English courses to improve her English skills.

Do you speak Mandarin well? if not, you take Mandarin classes while she take English courses. It will help the two of you in undertanding each other well in the long run.

If there are long-distance courses/home study courses, that's even better, as the two of you could learn at your own pace and your own time.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Red,
Overall that was well done. Do not use a dog/master analogy again unless you wish to have a dog/master relationship. I get that it was a convenient analogy, but it sends a terrible message about how little you expect from her. 

Most men are very confused about what constitutes good communication with a strong willed female partner. One key reason for that is men believe these women have the same 'emotional circuitry' that we do. They don't. That type woman is wired to respond to the needs of her children. 

A typical man is instead wired to respond emotionally to the needs of his wife. As you have been doing so far. 

When it comes to 'core' issues, your wife very much cares what you do, and generally cares much less about how you 'feel'. After one or at most two conversations where you make your needs and feelings known and nothing happens, these are your choices. 

Option 1: 
(man) I am frustrated and unhappy about our sex life (she already knows this)
(Woman) I am not comfortable talking about sex or 
Stop pressuring me

By the way this conversation DOES make her feel pressured, resentful and TURNED OFF. Because she already knows all this and you a just whining/repeating what you have already said. 

Optn 2: And conversations like this:
(man) Chronic lack of sex is making me tense and unhappy which is unfair to you and the baby. I understand sex is not important to you and I don't want you to do anything you don't want to do. So I am going to find a way to get my sexual needs met elsewhere. I also don't think it is wise for us to have any more children given our lack of physical compatibility. 

This conversation is a discussion among equals in a marriage, not one between a dog and its master. 

And Red, if you keep telling her that:
- minimal sex is ok and
- pleasing her without expecting her to put in effort to please you

You are feeding the monster of entitlement. And it will grow and grow and get uglier and uglier. 

You say that your wife is kind and loving. That may be. There is only one TRUE measure of that which is: what does your wife do when your preferences and hers collide? What effort does she make to make sure that YOU are happy in those situations. The basis for a toxic marriage is this: I love you in the way I like to be loved, which is not the way you NEED to be loved. 

So if my love languages are 'words of affirmation and gifts' then I compliment you and tell you I love you and buy you gifts. And I expect/demand you do the same for me. 

When you complain about affection and sex I aggressively respond that:
- I do many nice things for you and am very loving
- You only care about sex 

Be careful or you will find yourself in a bad spot. And your wife will end up very unhappy as well. 

Read 'married man sex life'. 



QUOTE=Red101au;1492684]john lord, as you say "Direct communication does work"
I have always known, believed and practiced this, unfortunately this can only work if both parties are willing to do it  and as stated previously, my wife refused to discuss anything that made her uncomfortable or that she didn't feel appropriate. 

I must admit I am a very direct person and sometimes people are not quite sure how to take what I say or what I mean as I call a spade a spade and I will always tell it the way it is, I don't believe in beating about the bush. I think that total honesty sometimes is too confrontational for most people lol

I also think part of the problem for my wife when it comes to talking about problems is she is not fluent enough in her English to really convey what she wants to say and doe not wish to say something in case she says it wrong and creates a bigger problem with misinterpretation. Which has happened in the past where she has said something to me and it was totally not what she was trying to say.[/QUOTE]


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

not_bubba said:


> Now she is about 7 month pregnant and you guessed it ... no sex since conception. I assume this will go on about 2 years more this time due to the added stress from my affair ... which was purely physical and she knows that and does not doubt it. I was not in as much trouble from the affair as I expected, BUT she wanted it ended. So now I am back to being a prisoner of sorts.


So you told her if she didn't have sex you would get it elsewhere. Good. Then when she continued to not give you sex you followed through on your word and found it elsewhere. Good. Then when you got caught, she demanded that you stop getting it elsewhere, and then simultaneously she cut you off. Not good. Cutting it off with the affair partner should have been conditioned on her giving you sex. She has a choice: either you get sex from her or from someone else. "no sex" is not one of the choices available. You give her choice a or b, she chooses choice c and you go along with it....which makes you a doormat.


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