# Is this common with BPDers and divorce?



## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

So I finally threw some divorce papers at my wife... since she has been asking for them since we've been married! 

She is undiagnosed, but exhibits very strong BPD symptoms. I have multiple other threads talking about it, if you really want more history.

So here's my question: When I gave her the papers, she has done a 180 flip on me. She's trying to act all sweet, and nice. She went to my folks today and my sister house as well, to ask for their help in keeping the marriage together. I'm like what? She hasn't really had any relationship with anyone in my family. I mean, she get's along at family get-togethers, but nothing beyond at.

She's telling everyone that will listen, that she loves me so so so so so much. I'm like what? I'm still blocked on FB, you cant be serious. Lol.

Is this common with BPD? 

I am sticking to my guns currently, but you could say that my will is slightly slipping. This has to just be part of the game right?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MrNightly said:


> So I finally threw some divorce papers at my wife... since she has been asking for them since we've been married!
> 
> She is undiagnosed, BPD. Pretty bad it would seem too. I have multiple other threads talking about it, if you really want more history.
> 
> ...


Use it to get her treatment, even if you don't stay together it will be easier to deal with her.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Imagine the best case and the worst case and then imagine all the in-betweens. Is it worth it?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Why do you thing she cheated (not the reason why but what makes you think it happened). I can't really see a post that explains everything, just your continued struggles with your wife's irrational mood swings.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

BPD or not, I don’t think it’s surprising behavior if she cares about you. But you have to make your decisions based on your feelings and what’s best for you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Consequence has met her bad behavior.
It was not a handshake that she delivered to that Specter.
It was a heart quake. She knows that is her due.

Her Due has arrived.
That Dew lays icy, clinging.... on that, her barren vine that no longer bears fruit.
Her vine, not divine, it's old unpicked harvest, dried and raisin like, this I intuit.

She is in panic-mode. 
A hair breadth better then manic-mode.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Yes definitely. It's part of the "push and pull" or the "I hate you, don't leave me" dance. She knows she ****ed up big time. She doesn't actually want you to leave her but she's not going to magically turn into the perfect wife. She will play the role of one until she is positive that you are firmly back in the marriage and then she will drop the hammer whenever the mood strikes. She will probably also remind you of how you wanted to abandon her and guilt trip you about it. Don't be fooled.

Even if you do leave, look at how she gets to come out of this the victim by reaching out to everyone first and giving them her narrative about how she loves you so very much but for some unknown reason, you are filing for divorce. Do you believe for even a second that she truthfully told these people what really happened in order to get the best advice? Do you think that she would even admit to saying repeatedly that she wanted a divorce? Probably not. It's all smoke and mirrors. 

Your best bet is to go through with the divorce and tell your friends and family the truth or get her into therapy and see how it goes. However, option 2 is incredibly risky. While therapy does have a very high chance of completely curing your wife, getting her to actually be honest and take therapy seriously is not likely to happen. Even getting a proper diagnosis is impossible if she never admits to what her moods and interactions with you are really like and without that, she can't get proper treatment. The BPDers I know that live relatively normal lives and can have healthy relationships are those that got treatment for it at a young age and understand their spiraling. All the old BPDers I know are almost certainly lost causes who would never be completely honest with a stranger they are trying to charm and would be too offended and pissed off to do therapy with someone who questions what they do admit to.

If you bring her to marriage counseling and hold her accountable that way, there's a very good chance that she will say the therapist and you are ganging up on her, refuse to continue, and write you both off entirely. If the therapist handles her with kid gloves and doesn't hold her accountable, she's also not likely to make much progress because all she hears is pure validation. It's a catch 22 so if you don't want to go through the whole ordeal with a high chance of a divorce anyways, just go through with it now.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Stay the course and get divorced!

Doesn't that have a nice ring to it?

Seriously you know its whats best for you be strong because as soon as she feels rhe heats off she will be back to her $hitty self.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I’m always in favor of saving the marriage is possible. Maybe do a separation?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If she does have some kind of disorder or mental health issue, she needs to have a thorough assessment and proper treatment regardless if you divorce or not. 

That being said if she does have some kind of BPD, BPDers have two great fears that they can not deal with. The first great fear they have is engulfment where they feel they are being engulfed and swallowed by another person. And the other great fear they have is abandonment, where they are being left and abandoned. 

Yes, those two fears are in conflict with each other and that very fine line that separates the two changes day by day. Noone is ever able to strike that perfect balance and no person can fill that void inside them. 

The danger is with some of them there are few to no limits to what they will do to keep from being abandoned and to fill that void. Some resort to violence or vandalism. Some will break in and clean out the house and take everything with them and throw a match behind them as the walk out the door. 

One of my best friend's ex wife is a BPDer and they had family tragedy in his family and she was feeling overwhelmed and engulfed by everything going on and she packed a bag and left one day. She met some other disordered chick within a day or two and she moved in with the other chick. She and my buddy had only been married a short time and had no minor children or shared property or anything so it was a quick divorce after only a few months and the day after their divorce was final, she married this other chick. 

They don't think, feel or act right. They will never do anything that makes sense to a normal, healthy, responsible adult. And you can never predict what they will do next. You can only predict that they will do something that is completely and utterly selfish that suits them and only them in that exact moment. 

The thing you have to remember is that you cannot save her or fix her. She can only seek treatment and management herself. 

You have to save yourself and protect your own interests and your own well being. If that means you have to separate yourself from the pain and chaos and harm that she brings into your life, then so be it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

...... so to answer your question - YES, this is quite common with BPDers. 

Anything that is nutty, kooky, contradictory and anything that is completely self-serving in the moment even though it makes no sense to a normal person is not only common but is pretty much guaranteed with a BPDer.


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

I think the way you keep saying your wife is BPD undiagnosed is disrespectful. Does she think she is BPD? If she does, then get her help. Does she think she needs help? Or are you dealing with a profoundly unhappy wife who takes it out with her moods?

It sounds to me like she loves you and that she does not know how to communicate or express her feelings. She needs counseling and she needs love whether you stay together or not. Do be that guy.


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

So let me fill in a few more details:

I got her to agree to therapy 4 weeks ago. We did 2 couple sessions and then the therapist was like, I need to work on Wife alone for a while. Wife went once, came home and said she was never going back. Or if she did go back, it was fine to blow the money by me, but she was just going to play games with the Therapist, she said.

Regarding Cheating, I've gotten access to her phone records lately... and also have had 2 differnent guys write and say they were f'ing my wife on a regular basis. I put a VAR in the house and in her car, the last time I left on a trip (Business travel quite a bit) and the one in the house caught her calling a guy, telling him we were basically living as roomates because she wanted out, but I wouldn't let her divorce... and then promptly asked to go drinking/dancing/clubbing that night with him. It died after 5hrs of recording a dumb fan blowing in the bedroom. Arg. Digging through her phone records, she's been in heavy contact EVERY SINGLE time I leave town with many many guys. I bought a reverse phone lookup number thing online, and have been able to track all the numbers. I don't have access to her FB or Skype, and she relies very heavily on those... probably 80% on those. So if her phone log alone is showing a ton of calls, I know she's talking even more to guys online. 

I don't have physical proof she's cheating physically, but she sure as hell isn't being honest about it with me. I had a guy follow her when I left town this last time, and she went to the club with this guy and lied to ALL her friends about it. That was the strangest part. She told 1 friend to watch the baby, because she was going out with the other Friend... then the two friends talked, and said, I'm not going out with her! WTF. Why lie to her best friends. They both ended up calling me out of town saying, Um... MrNightly, we have a problem! (The guy was a very young friend of mine, 19 years old... only one I could get last minute. He couldn't get into the club, and he didn't want to wait around outside to see who she came out with! What you get for half-assed PI work. ha)

So I don't have proof of cheating, but I have just about everything besides it. Once the DNA test comes back this week for the baby, I'll know much more.

I walk on egg-shells each and every day, and she is a volatile person. When she writes me a message on FB before I fly out of town, saying, "You live your single life, I'll live mine.." I think it's clear where her heart is. Maybe she doesn't have a BF, but she sure as hell isn't trustworthy!


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

NickyT said:


> I think the way you keep saying your wife is BPD undiagnosed is disrespectful. Does she think she is BPD? If she does, then get her help. Does she think she needs help? Or are you dealing with a profoundly unhappy wife who takes it out with her moods?
> 
> It sounds to me like she loves you and that she does not know how to communicate or express her feelings. She needs counseling and she needs love whether you stay together or not. Do be that guy.


I'm not trying to be disrespectful. She doesn't think she does anything wrong.

We can be having a perfectly normal time, I'll ask her about talking about a budget, and she'll blow up, tear all our pictures up from the wedding, throw my gifts I gave her into the trash because they, "Weren't what I wanted anyway" and tell me she hates me and wants a divorce, then storm off for 4 or 5 days of silent treatment until she suddenly walks back downstairs, and acts like eveything is normal. If I try to resolve what happened, it sparks another 2 or 3 days of silent treatment. This situation (Shuffle the "budget" for any number of other topics including travel, house repairs, work, sex, kids etc) has happened on a regular basis for the past 1.5 years. Every 1-2 weeks now after starting at 4-6 weeks before. On top of all that, she never apologizes for her actions. 

So she might not be BPD, but the signs are all pointing that she has a mental disorder.

You are right that she is a profoundly unhappy wife.. and I have done everything I know how to help make her happy. But she has to find her own happiness not have me make her happy. I do love her, but I will kill myself if I have to deal with this back and forth any more!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

MrNightly, I agree with @*Soul* that your W's exhibiting strong BPD symptoms does not rule out her being able to love you intensely. As we discussed in your July thread, BPDers often are out of touch with their loving feelings because they are too emotionally immature to consciously deal with two conflicting feelings simultaneously. As @*Oldshirt *explains, that love for you will be apparent while you're triggering her abandonment fear but will be hidden while your triggering her engulfment fear.

I also agree with @*Neko* that it is common for a BPDer to publicly display this loving attitude because _"she gets to come out of this the victim."_ At the end of my 15 year marriage, for example, the divorce-court judge asked my exW whether she wanted the divorce. Under sworn testimony, my exW said "No, your Honor, I really don't want the divorce because I love him." The lady judge simply rolled her eyes and granted the divorce. 

The judge knew that my exW had called the police and had me arrested on the bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. She knew that my exW had obtained a R/O preventing me from returning to my own home for 18 months. She knew that my exW had been treated, at my expense, for weekly sessions with six different psychologists for 15 years. And she knew that the divorce was being granted pursuant to my exW's petition (not mine) for divorce. 

The judge realized, of course, that my exW was determined to maintain her image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." BPDers keep a death grip on that false self image because, given their fragile egos, it is the closest thing to a lasting self identity that they are able to hold onto. But don't be surprised if, by next week, you learn that your STBXW is badmouthing you to the very same people. Like her declarations of love, her false claims about your "abusive" behavior will serve the very same purpose: validating her false self image of being "The Victim."


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MrNightly said:


> So let me fill in a few more details:
> 
> I got her to agree to therapy 4 weeks ago. We did 2 couple sessions and then the therapist was like, I need to work on Wife alone for a while. Wife went once, came home and said she was never going back. Or if she did go back, it was fine to blow the money by me, but she was just going to play games with the Therapist, she said.
> 
> ...


Yeah this is a no-brainer, your life will be so much better without her. You wife has mental illness and is not a candidate for a true marriage. If you don't believe me just google "being marred to a person with BPD". You are young lots of life in front of you. Just work on your picker, I suspect something may be broken as I bet you missed signs.


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

What you are describing is not BPD, so you should stop saying your wife is BPD unless you have a diagnosis. 

Your wife IS very unhappy, though she loves you and does not want to leave the marriage. She is completely conflicted and, as a women, my guess would be that she is significantly disappointed in you as a husband. Let me explain, or rather, attempt to interpret.

First, I think your wife is immature. She does not know how to express herself as an adult. Probably she was never taught as a child. She has impulse control issues and she seems like she is overwhelmed by her life. I am guessing that she thinks in a warped way that you should be solving her problems. This is why I think she is disappointed in you. Her thinking (my guess) devolves something like this:

The budget is a mess.
You are not fixing it.
You don't take care of me. You don't love me. You have abandoned me to this mess.
Why did I do this? Why did I marry him? Get rid of wedding pics! (complete panic has set in)
You don't know me.
You can't even pick out the right presents for me.

YOUR challenge is to teach her gently. First, I think I mentioned this another time, tell her when she is not mad that when she starts to spiral, you will not fight.

When she does start to spiral like this, I think the best thing you can do is help her identify how she feels and listen to her. You may not agree with what she says, but while she is in this panicked mode the only thing pointing out the fallacies in her thinking will do is enrage her further. Wait until she is calm. That is you goal anyway - to only truly engage her when she is calm. When she is spiraling, help her identify what she is feeling. She does not know how to do this!! Do this by identifying what emotions you think you see. The wording is important. "You seem overwhelmed. Are you overwhelmed?" "It seems like you wish we had not gotten married. Is that how you feel?" "You seem angry. What makes you the most angry?" The method is to make a hypothesis about what emotion she is feeling and then as her to confirm or deny. If she confirms, ask her why she feels that way, etc. 

Is your wife very smart? Smart people tend to not like counselors because they can talk around them and BS them. Or, perhaps the counselor was too direct and told your wife things she is not ready to admit.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

MrNightly said:


> She is undiagnosed, BPD.


MrNightly, I agree with @Nicky that you should not say your STBXW "is BPD" or "has BPD." As we discussed in your July thread, only a professional can determine if her BPD symptoms are so severe and persistent as to constitute full-blown BPD. You lack the training and credentials to do that. This does not imply, however, that you cannot spot BPD symptoms. It is okay to say "My STBXW exhibits BPD symptoms." You know that is true because these symptoms are ego defenses that every adult on the planet exhibits. 

Because you exhibited strong BPD traits 24/7 in childhood, and likely did so again during your early teens, you know what moderate-to-strong BPD behaviors look like. This means you can say "My STBXW exhibits strong BPD symptoms." This is true for other PD symptoms as well. Before you graduated high school, you already could identify selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without diagnosing Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD.

Whereas _diagnosis_ is the province of professionals, _spotting strong symptoms _(i.e., warning signs) is the province of laymen. Indeed, when laymen are unable to spot strong symptoms, a disorder is said to be "asymptomatic," i.e., without symptoms. Hence, by definition, strong BPD behaviors are symptoms you should be able to spot, especially after being married to her for over a year. There is nothing subtle about temper tantrums, verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, and rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you. 

This is why hundreds of mental institutions and hospitals describe the symptoms for NPD and BPD on their public websites. They know that laymen are able to spot these symptoms and, when laymen know what symptoms to look for, they are far more likely to seek treatment -- and to do so much sooner. And this is why the U.S. House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution in 2008 establishing the month of May as "Borderline Personality Disorder Awareness Month." The resolution states that it is meant _"as a means of educating our nation about this disorder, the needs of those suffering from it, and its consequences."_ 

The public's ability to spot moderate and strong BPD traits will become apparent when the APA revises its diagnostic manual (DSM-5). Since 1980, that manual has been mistakenly used a dichotomous approach (e.g., "yes" or "no") to measure the intensity of BPD behavior even though that behavior varies on a continuous spectrum. Under this flawed approach, BPD behaviors satisfying 100% of the diagnostic criteria implies that a person _"has BPD"_ and BPD behaviors satisfying only 95% implies that he _"doesn't have BPD." _This arbitrary creation of a bright line (where none actually exists) makes no sense because a person meeting 80% or 90% of the diagnostic criteria will be nearly as difficult to live with as a person meeting 100%.

When applied to a spectrum disorder like BPD, this dichotomous approach is as silly as declaring everyone above 6' 6" to be "tall" and everyone below that height to be "short." Fortunately, the American psychiatric community is already in the process of gutting that flawed approach and fully replacing it with a graduated approach to diagnosis (e.g., categorizing BPD symptoms as normal, mild, moderate, strong, or severe). This new approach will make it obvious that we all "have BPD" to some degree.


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Yeah this is a no-brainer, your life will be so much better without her. You wife has mental illness and is not a candidate for a true marriage. If you don't believe me just google "being marred to a person with BPD". You are young lots of life in front of you. Just work on your picker, I suspect something may be broken as I bet you missed signs.


Yes, I need to work on my picker, although I am swearing off relationships for the foreseeable future (5+ years is what I'm giving myself). I'm 36 years old.

However, I do have a potential "Fraud" case with my STBXW... She told me that she medically cleared from EVER having a child. Therefore, when we were dating, I never wrapped it up. Boom. 5 months into dating, she gets pregnant. (Little did I realize, she was very much likely with many other guys while we were dating...) She demands I marry her, which I did so her family wouldn't think poorly of her.

This technically falls under "Fraud" though I'm not sure what weight it will carry, if any in our court systems.

If the kids mine, I'll take care of it just like my other two girls (13 and 11).

I wouldnt have ever married the recent wife, if she hadn't gotten pregnant. I had already told myself that. I shouldn't have married her anyways, but I was trying to do the honorable thing.


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

Uptown said:


> MrNightly, I agree with @Nicky that you should not say your STBXW "is BPD" or "has BPD." As we discussed in your July thread, only a professional can determine if her BPD symptoms are so severe and persistent as to constitute full-blown BPD. You lack the training and credentials to do that. This does not imply, however, that you cannot spot BPD symptoms. It is okay to say "My STBXW exhibits BPD symptoms." You know that is true because these symptoms are ego defenses that every adult on the planet exhibits.
> 
> Because you exhibited strong BPD traits 24/7 in childhood, and likely did so again during your early teens, you know what moderate-to-strong BPD behaviors look like. This means you can say "My STBXW exhibits strong BPD symptoms." This is true for other PD symptoms as well. Before you graduated high school, you already could identify selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without diagnosing Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD.
> 
> ...


I corrected my initial post. Thank you. 

You and Niky are both correct. I will be more careful with how I label anyone. She shows very strong symptoms of BPD... but is undiagnosed.

Thank you for the educational data and history with BDP. As always, a pleasure to hear your view of things.


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

NickyT said:


> What you are describing is not BPD, so you should stop saying your wife is BPD unless you have a diagnosis.
> 
> Your wife IS very unhappy, though she loves you and does not want to leave the marriage. She is completely conflicted and, as a women, my guess would be that she is significantly disappointed in you as a husband. Let me explain, or rather, attempt to interpret.
> 
> ...


NikyT, 

Your post is spot on. For a normal rational person, who knows how to communicate. My STBXW, while brilliant in some areas (She speaks 7 languages) can not for the life of her, have a conversation with conflict and not get worked up, go silent and dissapear for days at a time. Your logic is probably very accurate on how she breaks things down, but when I ask if she is overwhelmed, she refuses to talk. Or she just screams. Typically she goes silent first, then screams, then goes silent again. 

If I ignore the silence, she is gone for days.. 8 this last time.

If I push through gently with questions, she blows up and demands a divorce.

This last time, I finally gave her the papers. 

Her Fear of Abandoment is now kicking in. Problem is, I've seen this cycle 2 dozen times in the past year or so. She'll be the nicest woman on earth for a week... and I'll truly believe we are past the problems... then she'll flip again. Just like a switch. Literally. We were driving one time, and I told her I had a work trip coming up next week, and that was it! She didn't talk to me for 5 days! When I asked what she was feeling, she got angry and demanded a divorce. 

It's the same ride, over and over again. My emotions are completely gone. Rubbed raw. I was able for the first year and half or so, to brush off everything, but I can't do it anymore. Am I weak? Maybe. But I would rather be alone then to ever have to go thru the verbal attacks again. My love language of Words of Affirmation is a 12! Words do break my bones eventually.

I'm not trying to be a loser by throwing in the towel.. I just know my entire life will spiral downwards very quickly, if I don't get ahead of this. I have too much good going with work and business to throw it all away.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@MrNightly, how old is your wife? 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

Lila said:


> @MrNightly, how old is your wife?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


33 years old.. 34 early next year.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MrNightly said:


> 33 years old.. 34 early next year.


Well that kills my theory. I thought she was much younger from your description of her behavior. 

Regardless, here's some advice that I think would do you some good. From reading your post history, you're 36 years old and this is your third marriage, the longest of which was 5 years (?). Seek individual counseling to figure out why you can't keep a successful relationship. It could be your picker or it could be you. Either way, fix it now before you make any attempts at another relationship. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

Lila said:


> Well that kills my theory. I thought she was much younger from your description of her behavior.
> 
> Regardless, here's some advice that I think would do you some good. From reading your post history, you're 36 years old and this is your third marriage, the longest of which was 5 years (?). Seek individual counseling to figure out why you can't keep a successful relationship. It could be your picker or it could be you. Either way, fix it now before you make any attempts at another relationship.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Ya. 

1st one lasted 6 years. 4 years before she started a relationship with a BF for 2 years. I was an ******* and didn't treat her right while on the force. This one could have worked, if I had been more mature to start with, and she didn't run around on me. (I was a virgin when I got married)

2nd one lasted 3 days. Rebound. Shouldn't have ever happened. Completely a terrible pick on me end.

Dated a girl for 3 years. I ended it because I saw huge red flags from the 1st relationship.

Dated this girl for 3-5 months and she got pregnant. 

I have been to IC between 1 and 2 and after 2. I do feel i've grown a ton, and while not perfect, have a pretty good handle on my feelings and emotions.

I was raised to not Date, but to just get married. I blame some of this on that silly upbringing, and the rest on myself.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MrNightly said:


> I have been to IC between 1 and 2 and after 2. I do feel i've grown a ton, and while not perfect, have a pretty good handle on my feelings and emotions.
> 
> *I was raised to not Date, but to just get married. I blame some of this on that silly upbringing, and the rest on myself*.


 You need more IC to deal with your Family Of Origin issues. Otherwise you will just jump right back into marriage #4 the next time you meet someone you "think" you like. 

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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

MrNightly said:


> She is undiagnosed,


Maybe you should get a diagnosis.
Could be a whole host of Nasty Cluster B stuff goin on. Comorbidity.


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

Lila said:


> You need more IC to deal with your Family Of Origin issues. Otherwise you will just jump right back into marriage #4 the next time you meet someone you "think" you like.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Quite possible I need more therapy...

However, I do think I was able to deal with it and come to grips with it after #2 and the IC i took part in.

I was able to properly see red flags in the next serious relationship and after 3 years called it off.

This "marriage" was sort of a pressure thing due to her being pregnant. I realize now that I didn't have to marry her. 

I'm certain that all of us could use more IC, but the ability to learn and understand where we are, who we are, how we make decisions and then use our best judgement to move forward, is what's its all about.

Regarding #4, that will never happen. 3 Strikes and you're out in my book! Perhaps a LTR someday, but #4 is not on the agenda ever again.


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

sandcastle said:


> Maybe you should get a diagnosis.
> Could be a whole host of Nasty Cluster B stuff goin on. Comorbidity.


As previous stated, I finally got her to agree to go to a therapist, and then after 3 sessions she said no more.

She has a deep storied past. However, at this point, i'm not even sure how much of it is real or just in her head. She has a way of making things up, as I've been finding out: 

For instance:

She called up a guy friend on speaker to let me know that she wasn't sleeping with him... (NOT my idea!) and she says, "I know you had a vascetomy, so you can't have babies..." he's like, "Um, no, I never told you that." She said, yes you told me that at the bar once, and he said, "I'm 100% certain I never told you anything like that, because I didn't have a vascetomy." 

It was obvious that she just makes up whatever sounds good for each situation.


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

Its called the hoover, they turn it on when you're pulling away

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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I just wanted to add something here. 

The reason we attempt to label someone with something like BPD (when they consistently tick all the boxes) is because it gives us hope that maybe, just maybe there is a glimmer of hope for reconciliation if we can just get these people into therapy. I don't think anyone labels someone close to them with BPD for malicious purposes, but when those we love act in a way that is not 'normal' and are destructive or self-destructive we start becoming detectives looking for answers ("that's just the way she is" gets lame after several years of putting up with bizarre behaviour). Those with cluster B personalities also have a canny way of making out everyone else has the problem and when you live with that year after year sometimes you start to believe it. By looking into the traits of BPD it makes us stop and think of things from a slightly healthier angle (she has the problem, I'm okay). 

However, saying that, it is very, very difficult to get someone with suspected BPD into therapy unless they have some kind of self awareness and are able to take responsibilities for their actions. (The person in my life is terribly abusive to the people closest to her and yet she will never apologise and always blames someone else for making her do it). There is no room for change. So labeling becomes fairly redundant - it doesn't really matter what you call it, if you have had enough, you have had enough. 

And to the OP - yes it is very typical of a BPD. I see it all the time with the suspected BPD in my life. Has she started re-writing history yet?


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

ricky15100 said:


> Its called the hoover, they turn it on when you're pulling away
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Ha. I like that.

She has, since I dropped papers on her, apologized multiple times, said she is changing for the better, realizes she made mistakes and wants to change for me, and will love me forever. She has given sex 2x a day as well, which is out of the norm.

I'm actually starting to believe her. This has been a really good few days.

Now I'm torn. Still waiting for the DNA test to return. Hopefully have that this week, and then more clairty will be given.


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

You'll go through this pull push dynamic time and time again, until she's either sucked your soul dry or you realise she's damaged and isn't going to change. Hopefully you'll have your aha! Moment at some point

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

ricky15100 said:


> You'll go through this pull push dynamic time and time again, until she's either sucked your soul dry or you realise she's damaged and isn't going to change. Hopefully you'll have your aha! Moment at some point
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yes, you are right. I had the "aha" moment when I finally dropped papers on her, whe I realized she will never change her "Running away methods.." I didn't really expect the sudden turn around, however, but it falls in line what typical characterists for BPD people.

Since this was the first time I dropped papers on her, I am curious as to how long the "change" will last. If it's a week, 2 weeks, or a month. My problem might be solved if it's a month  Every time she acts up, give her divorce papers, and BAM 1 month of happiness. Haha, kidding of course.

I'm still not convinced she isn't a cheater as well... but that has all basically stopped on her end. (Of course, I'm in town right now.)

She also went for a job interview today, which is a good thing. Has to get a certification before being accepted, but it could be a good deal for her if she actually completed it.

I'm tempted to just move the divorce along, and see what happens in the 60 day waiting period that is required for my State.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

A few weeks at best. Then it comes back in spades.


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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

The calm before the storm.....
Why are you having sex with her after just serving her with divorce papers? Seems rather hypocritical.
You are sending mixed messages, which she will hang on to and use to her advantage.
She is exhibiting classic signs of fear of abandonment “ I hate you don’t leave me”
Her push / pull dynamic is her desperation to win you back.

Don’t fall for this “ new me” facade from her...she won’t be able to keep this up....this is not her real personality.....it’s all in the name of self preservation.
Think back to all the times she has switched to win back mode after a fight......only to fall back into her assaulting you with her vicious tongue

Just when everything seems calm and you let your guard down.....” I’M BACK”..... her insidious attacks on you amplified ten fold.

Move forward with your life and away from this woman who has sucked the joy and life out of everything.

Make decisions with your head not your heart....you will be so relieved to be free of this nightmare edition of your life.

Work on being the best person you can be ....alone for a while...do some introspection...pick wisely next time even if it’s only a GF.....it’s going to take you a while to come to terms with what you lived with and how it affected you.....you are not unscathed.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You know she has issues, diagnosed or not.

I'm not sure why you'd have sex with her when you're divorcing. That's like ensuring you leave her completely messed up emotionally before you go.

She's still a human being and maybe someday she will get therapy and want to be with someone else. Like all of us, she deserves the chance to get better. Not be toyed with. Regardless of her past history with you. You deserve the same, regardless of your history with her. I'm sure living with her has "messed" you up. Living with my psychopathic ex messed me up, but I pulled the plug on all emotional tethers the minute I knew we were done, to preserve myself from excess hurt and pain. 

Sorry if my comments came off sharp. Contrary to @peacem 's comments about why we like to armchair diagnose BPD (and I do agree with her if from the perspective of a loved one), I do it as an outsider because I know the relationship just won't work, not because I think there's a cure. There's no cure for anything like BPD, just drugs to change the chemical imbalance of the brain, and therapy. The rate of maintaining a successful (nevermind drama-free) life with such a person is slim, especially if unmedicated and unwilling to seek regular therapy. Even with those things, it's an unpredictable haul.

I encourage you to leave with calm waters behind you, not rubble.


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## vauxhall101 (Jul 23, 2017)

This was tough for me to read. My exW was diagnosed as having borderline personality disorder, and a lot of what you wrote sounded very familiar to me. For example, the destroying of gifts, my ex was forever doing this. All the time. Perhaps the most obvious (and painful) example, is my dead mother's engagement and wedding ring that I gave to ex when we got married, and had fitted for her, that she then sent back to me in a fit of temper approx a year later, and I was willing to leave it at that, but for the next two years she would continually bring this up as evidence of what an a-hole _I am_, that I did not make her feel that my dead mother's rings were special enough for her (did I mention that these rings belonged to my one and only mother, who is dead?), so therefore, there isn't a person on the planet who wouldn't condemn me as an appalling husband and human being. 

It isn't pleasant for me to say this either, but it sounds as if your wife is actually a little more difficult than my ex, at least my ex was willing to admit (sometimes) that she has a problem. I know how difficult it must be for you, and how badly you just want to (and probably have) pleaded with them to just _try_ and be calm and reasonable.

A piece of advice I would give, is that you have someone you can talk to. My own experience, which I posted about on here and had some sense smacked in to me, is that your reality starts to distort. These bizarre outbursts become normal to you, and you start to wonder whether it isn't you that is abnormal, and that this happens to most people. Maybe most wives do assault their husbands because he tried to talk to her at 8 o'clock in the evening when they both have to be up at 6, maybe I do deserve it. What really helped me was talking to my wife's own therapist - I only spoke to her a few times, and not for very long, but it was very helpful in giving me perspective, and understanding that I wasn't to blame (and also where, in fact, I was at fault). Tbh I don't know how you haven't gone crazy already, from what you've written. 

I can't think what else to add. I hope that you both can find some peace.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MrNightly said:


> So let me fill in a few more details:
> 
> I got her to agree to therapy 4 weeks ago. We did 2 couple sessions and then the therapist was like, I need to work on Wife alone for a while. Wife went once, came home and said she was never going back. Or if she did go back, it was fine to blow the money by me, but she was just going to play games with the Therapist, she said.
> 
> ...


You can stay and wallow in your misery it is your life. 

The reality is you need to wake the hell up. Let the D continue.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

MrNightly; She has given sex 2x a day.
[/QUOTE said:


> Huh?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Satya said:


> You know she has issues, diagnosed or not.
> 
> I'm not sure why you'd have sex with her when you're divorcing. That's like ensuring you leave her completely messed up emotionally before you go.
> 
> ...


Coming from an actual diagnosed BPD'er, medication does not work. We do not have a chemical imbalance.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

pidge70 said:


> Coming from an actual diagnosed BPD'er, medication does not work. We do not have a chemical imbalance.


Borderline Personality Disorder cannot be treated with medication.


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

Hiya all.

Ok. Just wanted to update everyone.

I dropped the divorce. I really don't want to raise another kid in that environment. Wife has been great while I was home.

However, I had to go out of the country for 3 weeks to Australia for work. The largest deal we have ever worked as a company. During this time, I agreed to fly her to Thailand and then I'd fly from Oz to Thailand and spend a week with her on Vacation. So far so good. We flew from our hometown after Thanksgiving and both left LA within a few hours of each other.

I landed in Oz on Thursday. She landeded in Thailand the same day. We spoke briefly on Skype and hit the hay. Friday, I met up with the new client. The client (6 folks from their company) wanted to go for dinner and drinks Friday night and show me the town. Of course, this was part of the plan. I told my wife I would be out with the client (all men) for the night but would call her when I got back to my room.

Starting at about 10pm, she started calling me. I sent her a text back, saying I was still out and would call her when I landed at my room.

These guys could drink. I don't drink much, and probably had 1 for every 4 beers they drank. They ended up outside a casino around 3am and wanted to go to a strip club. I politely declined and walked back to my room. I was in the elevator up to the room when the Wife called again. I picked up and told her I was about to my room. She asked what I had been doing, which I told her, and then I said I turned down going to the strip club as I didn't think she would appreciate it. She started screaming at me, that I went to the strip club. I said, NO, I didn't go! She hung up and I went to bed. 

Saturday morning, I called her, she proceeded to yell at me in front of her family on Skype and then hung up, saying she was done and I was a cheater and I took girls back to my room etc etc. I couldn't convince her I hadn't.

Almost 2 weeks have gone by, and she has refused to talk to me. She kept sending messages that we were done, that I was cheating on her, and that we would divorce when I got home and to not go to Thailand. (She thinks I have a GF in Thailand too, even though I've never been there because I had 1 friend on FB who was from Thailand... but don't even know how I became friends with her. I deleted the friend when she asked me about her, so she knew I didn't even know who she was) I finally got her to talk a little bit last night... I explained that I wasn't sleeping around, and that I loved her.

I am leaning toward her not being BPD, and just having a serious lack of trust. I don't get it thought.. .my head still hurts from this episode.

I am keeping my scheduled flight to Thailand on Thursday to see her. It really messed with my head this trip, with her not talking to me while I am so far away.

Life shouldn't be this complicated, should it? I had a few bad thoughts on why even try anymore after these past 2 weeks... good lord!

Was I really an arse-hole for staying out so late with a new client? That's why I came to Oz wasn't it? I found myself being tempted much more then ever before with checking out other women, because my Wife said we were done. I kinda wanted us to be done actually.. but then I didn't. Sorry, it's rather confusing on the emotional side of things.


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