# Married and confused



## dvsninja2

Been married for 9 years and have two boys 3 and 4 years old. Came to this site hoping to get some additional advice outside of my marriage and counseling. Confused because every event in my marriage lately has been shocking to me and not in good ways. In short and hopefully covered in another post within the correct forum group, I feel like I am a good husband and my wife (from what I have gathered) believes I am not. When we share emotions for instance and it comes down to 'you do this' what happens is I accept her emotion and then say the reason why lets say I am being distant is because you never talk to me or show interest in me. That gets turned around into her telling me that I am making her feel bad and blaming her for my problems and then stops talking. I want to explain myself in most cases but it always goes horribly wrong.

Does it usually take some time to be able to reply or create a new post after I do this introduction post? Wanted to reply and create a new thread but still says I cannot and I think I have done everything.


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## Lostinthought61

if this behavior is sudden on her part, i suspect she is masking it for something else...i sense guilt on her part so she needs to make you the bad person. watch and observe what is going on with her when you are not there.


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## jsmart

You've been married for 9 years and I imagine together for longer than that. I'm sure it must have been good in the beginning. When did things start to get like this? I'm always suspicious of a spouse that is always looking to make you the bad guy. Like @LostInthough61 said, it can be a way to avoid intimacy and to make you the bad guy to cover up guilt.

Do you both work? Do you help with kids and with chores around the house? Are you setting up date nights at least once a month? How are you both physically? Are either of you overweight? How is your sex life and affection? The more info you provide, the better the advise you will get.


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## Spicy

Change your approach. When she says “I feel”...listen and work on showing understanding of what she is saying to you, rather than trying to explain what you said or did. She is probably only hearing that you are not acknowledging how it is affecting her, and feels that you are trying to deflect and blameshift. 

Even though that is not what you are trying to do, that is how it is making her _feel_.

So work on changing that part, and try discussing your feelings and actions at a totally different time.


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## 3Xnocharm

dvsninja2 said:


> Been married for 9 years and have two boys 3 and 4 years old. Came to this site hoping to get some additional advice outside of my marriage and counseling. Confused because every event in my marriage lately has been shocking to me and not in good ways. In short and hopefully covered in another post within the correct forum group, I feel like I am a good husband and my wife (from what I have gathered) believes I am not. W*hen we share emotions for instance and it comes down to 'you do this' what happens is I accept her emotion and then say the reason why lets say I am being distant is because you never talk to me or show interest in me. That gets turned around into her telling me that I am making her feel bad and blaming her for my problems and then stops talking. * I want to explain myself in most cases but it always goes horribly wrong.
> 
> Does it usually take some time to be able to reply or create a new post after I do this introduction post? Wanted to reply and create a new thread but still says I cannot and I think I have done everything.


Well to be honest, you ARE turning it all on her, if this is the approach you use to explain your feelings. Even if this is the truth... that you feel X because she does Y... you cant approach it that way when you are trying to communicate. Having said that though, her approach of "you do this" really isnt any better, she is coming at you in an accusatory way. Of course your instinct response is to defend and deflect. You two need to find a way to communicate how you are feeling without exchanging jabs.

Edit: @Spicy we cross posted lol


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## Yeswecan

Married 25 years. I, much like you, have a hell of a time communicating effectively with my W. At least, it was like that. 

1. When your W speaks with you, stop and give her your full undivided attention. 
2. Do not say anything. 
3. Do not start formulating a retort.
4. Digest your W concerns and what she has expressed before answering off the cuff. 
5. If your W finds fault with you, do not explain it away. Own it because your W is more than likely right. At least, that is how it panned out for me. 

Sit your W down and tell her you are hear to listen to what she has to say. You are looking to improve yourself and the marriage. I can tell you, I was a lout. I had anger issues. I listen to my W. I addressed here concerns and observations. I worked on myself to be a better person and H. The work has really paid off! 

Listen. That is all our significant others want by and large. Just listen.


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## dvsninja2

jsmart said:


> Do you both work? Do you help with kids and with chores around the house? Are you setting up date nights at least once a month? How are you both physically? Are either of you overweight? How is your sex life and affection? The more info you provide, the better the advise you will get.


I work, great job and she is SHM with recently getting a PT job to get away from the kids.
When I get home from work I help clean, cook dinner, play with kids and put kids to bed.
No to date nights, I have asked her if I should get a babysitter so we can but there is a fear from her about a stranger watching the kids. I am very fit and workout 3-5x a week, she tries very hard to be fit with diet and running. No sex life, last time was a year ago. She states she can't if we are not connected emotionally (makes sense, you want someone to want you and not just to do the deed). Physical and Emotional intimacy is getting worse as we break down with communication. When I try to work on it I am told I am doing it wrong or that she is not interested anymore.


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## Yeswecan

dvsninja2 said:


> I work, great job and she is SHM with recently getting a PT job to get away from the kids.
> When I get home from work I help clean, cook dinner, play with kids and put kids to bed.
> No to date nights, I have asked her if I should get a babysitter so we can but there is a fear from her about a stranger watching the kids. I am very fit and workout 3-5x a week, she tries very hard to be fit with diet and running. No sex life, last time was a year ago. *She states she can't if we are not connected emotionally* (makes sense, you want someone to want you and not just to do the deed). Physical and Emotional intimacy is getting worse as we break down with communication. When I try to work on it I am told I am doing it wrong or that she is not interested anymore.


You are listening! Did you inquire with your W what would get her connected again? It is tough with kids but your W comes first. Both need to make the effort to connect. Staying no to date nights simply will not work. Having a stranger watch your kids is a poor answer to no going. There are services with people having full resume' and references for babysitting.


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## dvsninja2

3Xnocharm said:


> Well to be honest, you ARE turning it all on her, if this is the approach you use to explain your feelings. Even if this is the truth... that you feel X because she does Y... you cant approach it that way when you are trying to communicate. Having said that though, her approach of "you do this" really isnt any better, she is coming at you in an accusatory way. Of course your instinct response is to defend and deflect. You two need to find a way to communicate how you are feeling without exchanging jabs.
> 
> Edit: @Spicy we cross posted lol


Lot of truth here and have been told this by our counselor. I am at a logical (fix it) level and my wife is at the emotional level. Both are needed to find resolution and visiting the emotional level is the first one to visit. Not sure why but getting to that emotional level and hearing my wife say she has negative emotions towards me for something that was taken the wrong way makes me feel like I need to defend. You are also right her approach is in a manner of coming at me, but I cant blame her either when this is how it has been for many years. How do I stop responding, accept, and listen to her feelings without trying to fix it?


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## sokillme

At this point I would sit her down and ask if she wants to be in the marriage. But you have to be willing to get an answer you don't like. 

I say that because there has to be a commitment by both people to communicate and that you are doing it in good faith. But that has to be YOUR commitment as well. Is it? 

You have to have a talk about having talks, about being committed to working on your commitment. But if you can't do those things you are not going to have a good marriage. The talk needs to be about admitting that you have serious problems and are you both going to be contrite and deal with those problems. NOT what the problems are just yet. 

You did check your phone bill right?


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## Affaircare

dvsninja2 said:


> I feel like I am a good husband and my wife (from what I have gathered) believes I am not.


NOTE TO SELF: This sort of discussion (whether or not you are a good husband) is not so much a matter of "facts" and proving the truth, as it is a conversation about opinion. In YOUR opinion, you go to work, you are faithful, you don't drink to excess, you help with the kids = Good Husband. In HER opinion, you leave her alone all day, you are in a romantic slump, you don't get a little "silly tipsy" anymore, and you don't show interest in her and her day = NOT a good husband. And yet, you are both looking at the exact same events and the exact same circumstances. That's because YOUR definition of being a good spouse might be something like "providing for the household, not being tempted, not having vices, and doing household chores" and HER definition of being a good spouse might be something more like "spending recreational time together, sending flowers for no reason, doing things that make you laugh together, and paying attention to her like you care." Neither one of you is "wrong," but rather maybe mismatched. The idea is for you to find out what HER definition of a good husband is, and then see what you can do to be like that...and vis versa, for her to find our YOUR definition of a good wife and do what she can to meet your needs. 



> When we share emotions for instance and it comes down to 'you do this' what happens is I accept her emotion and then say the reason why lets say I am being distant is because you never talk to me or show interest in me. That gets turned around into her telling me that I am making her feel bad and blaming her for my problems and then stops talking. I want to explain myself in most cases but it always goes horribly wrong.


Well honestly I can see what this goes wrong. She will say "You do this" and what she is hoping you'll say is "Hmmm...okay. So what I hear you saying is that to you it seems like I do this (rephrase a little here). Is that what you meant?" If you did that, she would feel like you HEARD her and UNDERSTOOD what she was trying to communicate. Then you could continue with "Okay I understand what you think (or how you feel). What would you like to request?"...and then listen to what she asks for as long as she's respectful. If she launches into bashing you, that's not cool, but if she says "Well I'd like to request that you do that instead" ... well are ya willing to do that? If you are, tell her. If you're not, just say "Oh boy I'm not comfortable doing that...but I would be okay with doing this'here. Would that work for you?"

See, the way you do it, she says "You do this" and essentially you are telling her that what she thinks or feels is invalid and on top of that you defend yourself by saying "I do this BECAUSE YOU (enter defense here)." She does in fact think and feel like you are turning it around on her because you are. In other words, she doesn't want to know your explanation. She isn't saying "Could you please explain why you do this?" She is making a statement: "You do this." 

Now, let's use a practical example. 

Here's how it has been going:

Her: "You are distant"
You: "I'm only distant because you never pay attention to me."
Her: "See? There you go again turning it back on me like it's all my fault."
You: "I wasn't blaming you. I was just explaining why I'm distant."
Her: "But you ARE. You blame me for how you behave! It makes me feel bad!"
Her: SHUTS DOWN AND WON'T TALK ANYMORE

Here's how it COULD BE going:

Her: "You are distant"
You: "Huh. So I hear you saying you feel like I'm distant. Do you mean like emotionally detached?"
Her: (surprised) "Well...yeah that's how it feels to me."
You: "Oh wow. Okay what would you like to request?"
Her: "Well, could we talk about our days when the kids go to sleep? Will you tell me about your day?"
You: "Boy that doesn't work for me only because I get so sleepy by then and I don't want to be grouchy. Could we do it while they do homework instead? I think I'd be more alert and better able to enjoy talking." 
Her: "Okay that would be nice!"


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## jsmart

dvsninja2 said:


> I work, great job and *she is SHM with recently getting a PT job to get away from the kids*.
> When I get home from work I help clean, cook dinner, play with kids and put kids to bed.
> *No to date nights, I have asked her if I should get a babysitter so we can but there is a fear from her about a stranger watching the kids*. I am very fit and workout 3-5x a week, she tries very hard to be fit with diet and running. *No sex life, last time was a year ago*. She states she can't if we are not connected emotionally (makes sense, you want someone to want you and not just to do the deed). Physical and Emotional intimacy is getting worse as we break down with communication. When I try to work on it I am told I am doing it wrong or that she is not interested anymore.


No sex for a year? That's crazy. How old are the kids? How are old are you two? 

There some good here:
It sounds like you're being a supportive and loving husband who's doing his part around the house as well as making sure he looks good for his woman. I'm going to suggest that you just arrange the childcare and the date night without consulting her. Show some leadership, and just set it up. Of course , this is after properly vetting the childcare.

Has her emotional distance been going on from before she started working? My spidey senses always go off when I hear of a former SAHM that goes back to work, and is all of a sudden emotionally distant. 

Now for the bad:
After being a SAHM for a few years, then going back to an office environment where new guys are giving the new girl a lot of attention, is the time that wives are VERY vulnerable to an interloper. We have TONS of threads of husbands that later found that their wife was in a sexual affair within month of being "free" of being a SAHM. Usually with the boss or manager.


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## BigToe

While tit-for-tat is not a good communication approach, there's nothing wrong with communicating the "why" in response to illumination of a perceived issue. The fact that your wife takes offense indicates to me that she can't accept that she might be the cause of some of your behavior. How else are you to resolve issues if you can't say to your partner, when you do this...I feel this.  You may be stuck in a logic vs emotion stalemate but the answer is not all on your shoulders. You both need to move to the middle, not you alone.

Her saying that she is not interested in working on the problem anymore and the fact that sex has been absent for a year are not good signs. You will never resolve your issues if you BOTH are not dedicated to fixing them.


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## Yeswecan

Affaircare said:


> NOTE TO SELF: This sort of discussion (whether or not you are a good husband) is not so much a matter of "facts" and proving the truth, as it is a conversation about opinion. In YOUR opinion, you go to work, you are faithful, you don't drink to excess, you help with the kids = Good Husband. In HER opinion, you leave her alone all day, you are in a romantic slump, you don't get a little "silly tipsy" anymore, and you don't show interest in her and her day = NOT a good husband. And yet, you are both looking at the exact same events and the exact same circumstances. That's because YOUR definition of being a good spouse might be something like "providing for the household, not being tempted, not having vices, and doing household chores" and HER definition of being a good spouse might be something more like "spending recreational time together, sending flowers for no reason, doing things that make you laugh together, and paying attention to her like you care." Neither one of you is "wrong," but rather maybe mismatched. The idea is for you to find out what HER definition of a good husband is, and then see what you can do to be like that...and vis versa, for her to find our YOUR definition of a good wife and do what she can to meet your needs.


Nailed it ! Been there! Great advise!


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## sokillme

By the way I think what a lot of men don't get is part of your job for your wife as a provider is to be an emotional provider. Especially when it comes to a SAH Mom it's likely you are her only conduit to the outside world of adulthood. Lot's of Women need to talk and emote, just like lots' of Men need physical contact. This is the thing that makes them feel close to you. You have to make the effort. 


Look up my post on the "A marriage of one" thread. towards the end. I wrote a whole bunch of stuff about how to start to communicate with your wife as a man about things she may be interested in that you have no interest at first. It's worked for me. 

Overall though you both have to get away from good buy bad guy in this situation. You can both be very earnest in your desire to be a good partner to the other and still have your actions cause conflict and hurt. You need to have this over-arching talk I am talking to you about and you should start there. 

You: Wife do you think I am not a good husband to you?
Her: Sometimes:
You: (Try very hard not to be defensive). Why?
Her: You do X
You: I do X because I am hurt, or I don't know what to say, or I don't know why I do X and I have to think about it. BUT- it's not my intention for X to make you feel Y and here is why. I try to do Z to make you feel Y. 

The point is you need to have this type of high level discussion but assuming you both are really trying and acting out of good faith and she is too (not sex in a year makes it very questionable), then you need to get to the point that you both at least acknowledge that as a starting point. 

It's OK to say: "Look I acknowledge that this isn't working for you, but I am really trying here, it's not because I am not trying." (But you have to be trying.)


I would still check your phone bill, no sex for a year is a big red flag. I would also understand that not everyone is a good fit.


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## dvsninja2

Holy SH*T where is the head exploding emoji? You nailed it 100% and to be honest I feel I know this and yet I have such a hard time doing exactly what you pointed out as being the correct way to communicate.



Affaircare said:


> NOTE TO SELF: This sort of discussion (whether or not you are a good husband) is not so much a matter of "facts" and proving the truth, as it is a conversation about opinion. In YOUR opinion, you go to work, you are faithful, you don't drink to excess, you help with the kids = Good Husband. In HER opinion, you leave her alone all day, you are in a romantic slump, you don't get a little "silly tipsy" anymore, and you don't show interest in her and her day = NOT a good husband. And yet, you are both looking at the exact same events and the exact same circumstances. That's because YOUR definition of being a good spouse might be something like "providing for the household, not being tempted, not having vices, and doing household chores" and HER definition of being a good spouse might be something more like "spending recreational time together, sending flowers for no reason, doing things that make you laugh together, and paying attention to her like you care." Neither one of you is "wrong," but rather maybe mismatched. The idea is for you to find out what HER definition of a good husband is, and then see what you can do to be like that...and vis versa, for her to find our YOUR definition of a good wife and do what she can to meet your needs.
> 
> 
> 
> Well honestly I can see what this goes wrong. She will say "You do this" and what she is hoping you'll say is "Hmmm...okay. So what I hear you saying is that to you it seems like I do this (rephrase a little here). Is that what you meant?" If you did that, she would feel like you HEARD her and UNDERSTOOD what she was trying to communicate. Then you could continue with "Okay I understand what you think (or how you feel). What would you like to request?"...and then listen to what she asks for as long as she's respectful. If she launches into bashing you, that's not cool, but if she says "Well I'd like to request that you do that instead" ... well are ya willing to do that? If you are, tell her. If you're not, just say "Oh boy I'm not comfortable doing that...but I would be okay with doing this'here. Would that work for you?"
> 
> See, the way you do it, she says "You do this" and essentially you are telling her that what she thinks or feels is invalid and on top of that you defend yourself by saying "I do this BECAUSE YOU (enter defense here)." She does in fact think and feel like you are turning it around on her because you are. In other words, she doesn't want to know your explanation. She isn't saying "Could you please explain why you do this?" She is making a statement: "You do this."
> 
> Now, let's use a practical example.
> 
> Here's how it has been going:
> 
> Her: "You are distant"
> You: "I'm only distant because you never pay attention to me."
> Her: "See? There you go again turning it back on me like it's all my fault."
> You: "I wasn't blaming you. I was just explaining why I'm distant."
> Her: "But you ARE. You blame me for how you behave! It makes me feel bad!"
> Her: SHUTS DOWN AND WON'T TALK ANYMORE
> 
> Here's how it COULD BE going:
> 
> Her: "You are distant"
> You: "Huh. So I hear you saying you feel like I'm distant. Do you mean like emotionally detached?"
> Her: (surprised) "Well...yeah that's how it feels to me."
> You: "Oh wow. Okay what would you like to request?"
> Her: "Well, could we talk about our days when the kids go to sleep? Will you tell me about your day?"
> You: "Boy that doesn't work for me only because I get so sleepy by then and I don't want to be grouchy. Could we do it while they do homework instead? I think I'd be more alert and better able to enjoy talking."
> Her: "Okay that would be nice!"


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## dvsninja2

Kids are 3 and 4, and this all started after the kids. She has been diagnosed with depression, PTSD, and anxiety.

You are scaring me a little because she is one month into the job and is already talking about a male manager that she closes with in a way that is strange to me.



jsmart said:


> No sex for a year? That's crazy. How old are the kids? How are old are you two?
> 
> There some good here:
> It sounds like you're being a supportive and loving husband who's doing his part around the house as well as making sure he looks good for his woman. I'm going to suggest that you just arrange the childcare and the date night without consulting her. Show some leadership, and just set it up. Of course , this is after properly vetting the childcare.
> 
> Has her emotional distance been going on from before she started working? My spidey senses always go off when I hear of a former SAHM that goes back to work, and is all of a sudden emotionally distant.
> 
> Now for the bad:
> After being a SAHM for a few years, then going back to an office environment where new guys are giving the new girl a lot of attention, is the time that wives are VERY vulnerable to an interloper. We have TONS of threads of husbands that later found that their wife was in a sexual affair within month of being "free" of being a SAHM. Usually with the boss or manager.


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## sokillme

dvsninja2 said:


> Kids are 3 and 4, and this all started after the kids. She has been diagnosed with depression, PTSD, and anxiety.
> 
> You are scaring me a little because she is one month into the job and is already talking about a male manager that she closes with in a way that is strange to me.


You need to have the talk about being in the marriage or not. And tell her to at least tell her family if she is out.


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## dvsninja2

I have asked and she sometimes says "I dont know" but I feel like it is a yes she is just really frustrated. Other times she says "yes" and looks at me like it was a stupid question.



sokillme said:


> You need to have the talk about being in the marriage or not. And tell her to at least tell her family if she is out.


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## dvsninja2

Thank you all for your responses. A little more to share is that I am 37 and she is 36.

The other day I asked her some Tony Robins questions and I think this shocked me and put it into perspective.

How Significant does YSO make you feel?
Does YSO Love you?
How loved do you feel YSO makes you feel?
How Certain are you that YSO will stay and love you?
How Much Variety does YSO bring home to you?
How much do you grow together?
How much does YSO contribute to you?

Every answer she gave was a 3 or less. My responses were pretty similar.


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## NobodySpecial

Affaircare said:


> NOTE TO SELF: This sort of discussion (whether or not you are a good husband) is not so much a matter of "facts" and proving the truth, as it is a conversation about opinion. In YOUR opinion, you go to work, you are faithful, you don't drink to excess, you help with the kids = Good Husband. In HER opinion, you leave her alone all day, you are in a romantic slump, you don't get a little "silly tipsy" anymore, and you don't show interest in her and her day = NOT a good husband. And yet, you are both looking at the exact same events and the exact same circumstances. That's because YOUR definition of being a good spouse might be something like "providing for the household, not being tempted, not having vices, and doing household chores" and HER definition of being a good spouse might be something more like "spending recreational time together, sending flowers for no reason, doing things that make you laugh together, and paying attention to her like you care." Neither one of you is "wrong," but rather maybe mismatched. The idea is for you to find out what HER definition of a good husband is, and then see what you can do to be like that...and vis versa, for her to find our YOUR definition of a good wife and do what she can to meet your needs.
> 
> 
> 
> Well honestly I can see what this goes wrong. She will say "You do this" and what she is hoping you'll say is "Hmmm...okay. So what I hear you saying is that to you it seems like I do this (rephrase a little here). Is that what you meant?" If you did that, she would feel like you HEARD her and UNDERSTOOD what she was trying to communicate. Then you could continue with "Okay I understand what you think (or how you feel). What would you like to request?"...and then listen to what she asks for as long as she's respectful. If she launches into bashing you, that's not cool, but if she says "Well I'd like to request that you do that instead" ... well are ya willing to do that? If you are, tell her. If you're not, just say "Oh boy I'm not comfortable doing that...but I would be okay with doing this'here. Would that work for you?"
> 
> See, the way you do it, she says "You do this" and essentially you are telling her that what she thinks or feels is invalid and on top of that you defend yourself by saying "I do this BECAUSE YOU (enter defense here)." She does in fact think and feel like you are turning it around on her because you are. In other words, she doesn't want to know your explanation. She isn't saying "Could you please explain why you do this?" She is making a statement: "You do this."
> 
> Now, let's use a practical example.
> 
> Here's how it has been going:
> 
> Her: "You are distant"
> You: "I'm only distant because you never pay attention to me."
> Her: "See? There you go again turning it back on me like it's all my fault."
> You: "I wasn't blaming you. I was just explaining why I'm distant."
> Her: "But you ARE. You blame me for how you behave! It makes me feel bad!"
> Her: SHUTS DOWN AND WON'T TALK ANYMORE
> 
> Here's how it COULD BE going:
> 
> Her: "You are distant"
> You: "Huh. So I hear you saying you feel like I'm distant. Do you mean like emotionally detached?"
> Her: (surprised) "Well...yeah that's how it feels to me."
> You: "Oh wow. Okay what would you like to request?"
> Her: "Well, could we talk about our days when the kids go to sleep? Will you tell me about your day?"
> You: "Boy that doesn't work for me only because I get so sleepy by then and I don't want to be grouchy. Could we do it while they do homework instead? I think I'd be more alert and better able to enjoy talking."
> Her: "Okay that would be nice!"


Hot damn. Not only do you so often have exactly the right advice, you say it so well!


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## jsmart

dvsninja2 said:


> Kids are 3 and 4, and this all started after the kids. She has been diagnosed with depression, PTSD, and anxiety.
> 
> You are scaring me a little because *she is one month into the job and is already talking about a male manager that she closes with in a way that is strange to me*.


I said it not to scare you but to make you aware of how fast these things happen. Don't think
because it's some older guy or overweight guy that your safe. You'd shake your head in disbelief if you were to read some of the threads of husbands who wife went head over heals for a POS that she's known for a very short time.

Since she's been diagnosed for these emotional issues, is she taking meds for that? I ask because there are some meds that can make help with one problem but cause irrational behavior in another. 

PS: Check up on the work situation. Let your presence be known to this guy. Surprise visits with flowers or a favorite dish or snack can be effective ways to check on her and show her you're thinking of her.


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## NobodySpecial

dvsninja2 said:


> Holy SH*T where is the head exploding emoji? You nailed it 100% and to be honest I feel I know this and yet I have such a hard time doing exactly what you pointed out as being the correct way to communicate.


DH and I struggled mightily with this at one point. We KNEW it. We could see it AFTER we had botched it ... AGAIN. But we could not see how to do it right in the moment. If that makes any sense. Our marriage counselor helped us with this A Lot. Like A Lot. When we are having trouble communicating in this way, we still pick up a magic marker (our therapist did not have an actual designated talking stick so that is what we used in counseling) and follow the talking marker technique.


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## dvsninja2

What is this magic marker technique?



NobodySpecial said:


> DH and I struggled mightily with this at one point. We KNEW it. We could see it AFTER we had botched it ... AGAIN. But we could not see how to do it right in the moment. If that makes any sense. Our marriage counselor helped us with this A Lot. Like A Lot. When we are having trouble communicating in this way, we still pick up a magic marker (our therapist did not have an actual designated talking stick so that is what we used in counseling) and follow the talking marker technique.


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## Yeswecan

jsmart said:


> Surprise visits with flowers or a favorite dish or snack can be effective ways to check on her and show her you're thinking of her.


You should be doing this anyway.


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## NobodySpecial

dvsninja2 said:


> What is this magic marker technique?


Google talking stick technique. I was joking about the magic marker.


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## 3Xnocharm

The two of you HAVE to do date nights, its not an optional thing. She needs to loosen her apron strings, kids being babysat is a normal thing that goes on! As someone else mentioned, YOU take the lead on this and make the arrangements. You cannot be healthy parents without a healthy marriage. 

If she is struggling still with some PPD after 3 years, she needs some serious help to get that under control, too. This should have been taken care of years ago.


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## 3Xnocharm

So I just caught this other thread started by OP:

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/famil...e-doesnt-want-me-our-kids-see-my-parents.html


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