# wife just told me she wants separation. is there hope?



## blindsideddad

Help! My wife of 9 years just told me three days ago she wants a separation.
We have 2 happy lovely girls, ages 3.5 and almost 6. We bought a house almost 3 years ago. we were good friends for a couple of years before we started dating, and dated, and lived together for a good 2 years before marriage. so we 've known eachother for about 14 years.
she told me that she wants to be alone. she wants to stay in a good relationship for the kids. she wants to be friends like we used to be. 
We used to talk out disagreements, and listen to each other's sides of the story and resolve most conflicts. then the kids...
we have been in a gradual decline since the 1st kid, which quickend once #2 was in the picture. I have atributed it all to the stress of babies/toddlers. Money is an issue too, as we are a 1 income family. 
I have made the typical guy mistakes- taking her for granted, not listening well, not nurturing the relationship or her. (we both come from divorced families, thus don;t have postive rolemodels.) (it took the seperation to fully understand this)
so we have degenerated into two ppl who don;t respect or listen to eachother for the few past years. again, being an oblivious dude, I just resigned myself to suffer for a while until the the kids were a little older- then things woudl come gradually back. It took her telling me how miserable she is, to realize that I too am more miserable than just a stressed out dad. 
so, basically, our relationship is dead. we are both checked out. I have hope we can salvage it. I love the old her dearly (the new her, of course, not so much, but hte new me is not so great either.)
we both have focused heavily on the kids, who we love more than life itself, probably to the detriment of our relationship.
she had asked for us to see a marriage counceler a few times inthe past. being the breadwinner, and living paycheck to paychek (or worse), I had not followed that up, again, thinking when we get a little more money, we can deal and pick up the pieces. dum-as$. 
she is miserable, wants to be happy for the girls. She feels as though she has lost herself. I totaly want her to be happy, and support anything that she needs to do. but I am not very good at supporting her emotionally. I am terrible at showing her how important she is to me- especially for the past years that we have been checked out. I am a great chore sharer, but half the time, she complains that I dont; do enough. the other half, she tells me that the chores dont matter, and I need to support her better. which I never understood, but now I do (at least in theory)
So my heart is broken. when she told me she wants the seperation, she was her old self. she allowed herself to be vulnerable- so I remembered what I love about her.
I had a great sence of relief that the terrible rut that we were in was over. but an even greater sadness, of course. I had always envisioned us getting back to a good spot, and growing old together.
and then, there are the kids. I live for them, wish I could spend every second with them. with a divorce, I can't imagine the pain of not getting to kiss them goodnite every nite (tears!).
I can;t imagine the pain my dad went thru. then I remember how secondary he was to me growing up. that kills me.
so needless to say, I would do anything to keep the family together. She says she will do counciling, but her vioce tells me that she really thinks it;s over, and thinks it will be better living seperate lives.
we both have come along way over the years. for example, I used to be very sarcastic, which was a mechanism to make me feel smarter/ superior to her. thru many fights, she has helped me realize that, and Ive stopped years ago. when she was mad, she used to be REALLY mean, name calling, demeaning stuff, and worse, and she is much better too. but none of that makes her feel better now. we both suffer from low self esteem.
please, I'm looking for positive feedback. please tell me a story where a separation worked out for the better. tell me it's possible to turn back from the brink. 

signed one sad dad on a friday nite.


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## that_girl

Where did this come from? just out of the blue? Were you fighting?

Is there someone else involved? I would suspect cheating or close to it.

She wants to be alone so she can pursue this other person.



I'm so sorry...it's so devastating. But, can you snoop a bit and find info?


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## arbitrator

Agreeing with TG here. You definitely owe it to yourself to at least investigate, albeit on a minor scale. Some smoke apparently needs to be cleared on your part before you can really make an accurate assessment of the situation. Sorry to see you here, but you've come to the right place. The vast majority of us here on TAM will be here for you should you need us. You will remain in my prayers!


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## blindsideddad

Hi TG. yes- out of the blue, though we've been checked out for some time. I don't think there is anyone else- anyone at all 

but boy, do I feel naive. we had a long talk last nite. she is still not exactly sure how, but basically the gist of it is she wants divorce. she will do MC, but has no hope. she says we are too different. it's too hard. we've tried too hard already (working on ourselves, not the marriage), and it's only gotten steadily worse. feels like we shouldn;t have to change who we are, but that's the only way to make it work. we are totally incompatible. (all her words here).

we have both definately lost part of ourselves in this marriage.

she feel's like she "just woke up" on her decision that this is waht she needs. she has been in a fog, and now it's clear. that is why her anger is gone now.

a little more background: her brother is ~6months into a not-so-nice divorce, in another country. alone. she just got back from visiting him- 3 days before breaking this to me. he is doing well now- working out, new friends etc. Her dad is also going thru a divorce to his second wife. so there's that big stress in her life too. Ive tried really hard to support her feelings about all this. not sure if she realizes this, or if I have not been doing the right stuff...

this is crazy. a month ago, she was talking about buying another house together with help from her dad. now this.

might this be part of a mid-life crisis? we are 37. we both have been lost in baby world for almost 6 years, and of course being the stay at home mom, she has definitely taken the brunt of this. we are broke- (our present mortgage is a huge % of my pay- kids and food the rest.) so there's severe limitations to what she can do with the kids, and she grew up with more $$, so that's hard (for both of us).

wow. i dont think i've ever been so angry. i feel like a fool, like she's mis-led me for a long time. she does not remember the good times, only the bad. feels like she never loved me, an it was all in my head. same time, i feel my part here not being a better husband all these years. ive tried, but...seems like every improvement I make, it actually gets worse.

sorry for the ramble. it helps me sort out my feelings.

gonna be an interesting weekend.


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## blindsideddad

another thing- depression runs in both our families. she had post pardum depression with our first child. did not seem to with the second, but then again, things have been pretty bad since #2.


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## Lon

> so we have degenerated into two ppl who don;t respect or listen to eachother for the few past years. again, being an oblivious dude, I just resigned myself to suffer for a while until the the kids were a little older- then things woudl come gradually back. It took her telling me how miserable she is, to realize that I too am more miserable than just a stressed out dad.
> so, basically, our relationship is dead. we are both checked out. I have hope we can salvage it. I love the old her dearly (the new her, of course, not so much, but hte new me is not so great either.)


Is exactly where I was at the end of my relationship - however from the sounds of it you are not checked out of this, only she is.

Also, all the things she is blaming you for, you could have done a better job perhaps, but you still care and still want to make it work so do not place what you did or didn't do on her unilateral decision to end it.

Like TG suggests, there IS a reason why she is saying this now, there is someone or something in the picture that has ignited this action within her, because until something happened a future with you was still her best option until she has set her sights on something else. So I would highly suggest investigating covertly and figuring out what this new thing in her life (that she IS NOT going to reveal to you) is. And it probably IS another person because that is about the only thing that can't happen within the boundaries of monogamy.

If you do search and find, do not confront her until you've thoroughly found out what you can, be it another person or something else. And STOP accepting the blame for her decision, separation is not what you want, be clear on that.


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## Shaggy

I'd still investigate if there isn't another man involved here. Wives suddenly awakening and bringing out all the wrongs you've done more often than not means there is a third person in your marriage.

Do not ask her if there is, if there is she has already chosen to keep it hidden, so asking her is just plain stupid.

You need to investigate - try the usual voice activated recorder in her car/where she might use her phone during the day at home.

I'd also suggest a keylogger on the PC if she uses that - things like FB and email.

No one goes from happy - to this has always been h3ll without some motivation for that kind of change. Unfortunately for many marriages it turns out that motivation was coming from a new relationship on the side.


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## blindsideddad

Lon, I was checked out until this F***ng serious wake-up call. probobly not as much as her, but still. every morning, and eve after work, just the sight of her would make me just a grumpy a$$. I'd avoid eye contact, and genrally show little respect. I was very conscious of not being directly mean, but still. no good. at all. would yawn when she woudl try to talk about her feelings with me- standard jacka$$ stuff stemming from un-resolved resentments. I completely regret it all. but we both have some big resentments from unresolved issues, and she has obviously not been a cup of tea either. totally subconscious, until the wake-up call. 

I appreciate all the calls about infidelity. y'all are trying look out for a guy in a hard spot, and that;s the most obvious, easy answer. 
I don't think I want to stoop so low as to snoop. It just does not feel right. My radar is on high alert, however, after all your calls, and reading other posts on TAM. 

It is sudden, and out of the blue, but not. as I said, we've been checked out. I've been fantasizing about divorce my self for a while- but just fantasizing. the kids and my dreams of relationship improvement kept me in check.

today was a hard day- as you might imagine. I think she thought this would be easy considering how poor our relationship has been lately. not big fights, but just no connections, and as I said, I've been jerk, and she too.

well, we will continue to talk at nite, and hopefully get somewhere. either closure, or reconciliation. at least we can talk now! ironic.


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## Lon

blindsided, I think I understand, to clarify what I mean when I say "checked out" and later found out that all women seem to universally understand, is that they are done and have no intentions of returning, as in checking out of a hotel. Sounds to me like you were just on autopilot, and not really participating. There is a diff, one (the latter) means resentment, the other (former) means no chance of reconciliation.

Now as to her infidelity, unless you "snoop" (which is aka "protecting the marriage from impending doom") you just may find out what "blindsided" REALLY means.

Honestly, in my experience and from what I've seen, you almost should wish there is an affair so that you can blow it up and take some kind of action, because if she is just a walkaway there is nothing you can do to shake things up.

Your best bet either way (after exposing an affair if you find out about one) is the 180, which is basically becoming emotionless to her and leaving her completely to her own just as she is asking, so that you are free to use your energies to improve your own life instead of wasting them on an unappreciative spouse. If you were as lousy as husband as you say you were it will be easy, if you find it hard to 180 well then you weren't ever really checked out and you were a lot more faithful spouse than you give yourself credit for.


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## blindsideddad

holy crap- I just wrote a very long and cathartic reply for the past hour, and the freaking brouser lost connection and erased it. *frustrated*!!

well, I'll elaborate later, but for now, Lon, thanks for the input. Yes, I was using the term checked out to mean extreme resentment, fantasizing about divorce. for her, it remains to be seen. 

the 180 sounds interesting- for our relationship, 180=loving caring people. I am actually trying to be that way while acknowledging her needs for space too. 

we had a good talk last nite- i;ll detail more later.

I've been focusing on myself a bit- hair cut, new clothes, time alone with the kids.

day by day.


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## Lon

blindsideddad said:


> ...I've been focusing on myself a bit- hair cut, new clothes, time alone with the kids.
> 
> day by day.


Good! this is the best thing for you either way, you need to heal yourself and love yourself before you can love others. Taking care of yourself is the primary thing for you right now.

That sucks when your writing is just discarded by technology like that. Not much more frustrating especially when you've just poured your heart out through your fingertips.

As to doing more, showing her more love more, many people advocate that this is the way, some other site (divorce busters??) calls this Plan 'A', and the 180 Plan 'B'. Most of us betrayed on this site will advocate Plan 'B' when your shows of appreciation are voided by a spouse who still wants to leave despite. But no matter what anyone says, the thing you need to do is always what you believe you need to do, so certainly no judgements from me, after all neither plan A or B worked out for me (though I didn't follow the book, just my intuition). But I have known a few on here over time who've managed to get into reconciliation mode.


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## blindsideddad

hi Lon, thanks for the affirmation! yes, I'm feeling better about myself than I have in years. I'm scared, but also very hopeful.

regarding the infidelity thing, I strongly doubt it, based on 3 things:
1. I know her character. I know, most ppl don't suspect an affair until too late, so this one does not hold much weight presently.
2. We have been very busy with young kids, and pretty much have done everything together as a family until last week. she doesn;t really have time (at least for a physical affair- emotional, maybe. )
3. I've looked at the the cell phone bill (family plan) and no strange phone#s. there are some texts to # that I don't know, but not a ton, not a ton to 1 particular, and none at inappropriate hours. She does FB text with ber brother, who is getting the divorce.

I am considering a straight forward approach. I want to ask her directly to show me her texts, and FB stuff. to explain that I don't suspect, but I need to be sure. 

anyone think that is a mistake? not sure I will do it today, but that's is where I am leaning within the near future. or maybe wait until within the safety of MC session?

take care, everyone.


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## Lon

Don't ask her to see evidence unless there is something glaring that you know about and are testing her reaction.

You may have thought you knew her character, but did you foresee her ending the marriage? When they check out it all changes, their character no longer fits what you think, trust me its the hardest thing to accept in cases of infidelity, it is completely bewildering.

I'm not saying presume affair though, I'm just saying prepare for the worst so you can take control of your own life... MC may not automatically be a safe place either, don't presume that you are getting the full disclosure whatever it may be, usually when one wants to end it and has been unsuccessful at really explaining why they are most likely going to be defensive and not readily transparent, use MC as a place for you to get the confusing and painful stuff in the open where you have a hopefully unbiased and reasoning witness and mediator to help sort through it and allow you to have some type of communication... good luck BD


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## blindsideddad

here's another quandry:
wife's brother is going thru a messy divorce out of the country. Bro/dad have at best a very rough relationship. dad wants to visit, bro says only if she (my wife/ his sis) can go too.

wife asked me if I could take a week of my vacation time to stay home and watch the kids. I've been *aching* to go back home for a couple weeks using my vaca time, havn't been able return in 3 years. I talked to my boss, I could likely just take the extra time considering my predicament, but... i'd feel bad about that.

As a husband, I'd support her in this family crisis. As the dude being separated from, not sure I want to do any favors like that. but then again, the brother is in a very rough spot, much worse than what I am (so far). I sympathize with him, and my wife's worries. and I don't want to be punitive here. I've got passive aggressive tendencies.

opinions?


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## blindsideddad

thanks for the input regarding infidelity. good points. I'll keep my radar on high for now.


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## the guy

The asking to see cell/text at MC is a good idea, if/when she refuses the request, the MC and help control the back lash you will get from your wife.
Plus it will be good to have the MC help you guage her responce to your request.
Also sit close to her, she may start to delete like crazy before she hands it to you, sitting close will be able to see what she is doing to the phone.


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## blindsideddad

guy, good point. MC would help gauge reactions, which may be more important than evidence. 

In some ways, at this point, I don't fully trust my judgement- as we tend to see what we want to see!


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## ABeautifulDisaster

Please, please, please keep the snooping and P.I. work off the radar. If she isn't having the EA and she is just the woman who is tired of being in what she feels is a dead marriage I would honestly think you seeking what she is not doing would be the last thing needed to push her out the door. 

I think you have a chance. She isn't out the door. She is saying that she will see a MC even though she thinks it is going to be an epic fail. If you didn't have a chance nothing would keep her in that house. That is my honest opinion. I most certainly hope her family is not all for this pending divorce she is talking about. That would make it harder but it is not impossible. 

You got blind sided but you also got a wake up call. It sounds to me like both of you need one and if she isn't going to have that epiphany of self discovery like you it is fair to say that a MC will help you both identify what is wrong and fix it. Fixing it takes work. To me you have to exit a marriage knowing you came, you give it your all and you leave knowing you couldn't of done anything better to fix it. If she never gets to that point with you? You will still know you got there. You delivered.

Kids are such an incredible addition to a marriage. They bring so much joy, love and laughter to our lives...so much so sometimes we forget that our relationship takes just as much nurturing. If you don't give it the time you give your kids it will wilt, shrivel up and die. Some of us don't get that until it is way too late...but you have a chance. It may not be ideal but take it...the blinders are off now you know?


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## the guy

I'm a big fan in snooping, I also believe her reaction to the request to spontainisly ask fo her phone can be palyed off as in such a way that that your W won't go deeper underground.

If this is just a EA it would be could to stop it now, but if it is a PA then the addiction is even stronger and you can still get the evidence, it will just take longer.

So; ask for the phone at MC and risk it going deeper underground or hold off and continue to investigate and risk it going to a PA.

My thinking is her response will validate more costly investigation or you get some admission and start to take the steps to work on her infidelity issues.

It can play out were she just gives up and hands you the phone and you can start to work on the reality of it all.

It can play out were she tells you and the MC to pound sand and walks off, confirming that a more expensive and lengthy approach is needed to get the smoking gun that might get her to admit her problem, but deniel is strong and even with video she could deny.

Or it could work out to all be a dead end....even then she may have covered her tracks or there are no tracks at all.


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## the guy

its all a risk, in my case my 1st confrontation was nothing but denial. My 2nd was with text and photo, at best if my fWW want to deny it could have been pluaseable that it was just an EA with inappropreaite behavior. But it was enough for her to "just give up" and admit to more then I had.

Thats one of the best tools to have, is being able to work the angle in getting wayward to believe you have more then you really do have.


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## CantSitStill

She might or might not have someone else but she's definately going through a midlife crisis..she has given up and feels the marriage is done..I did the same thing and then stupidly looked up my ex bf on facebook. We were in MC while I was still talking to my ex boyfriend. Seperation is the only thing that helped me come back to my senses and come back to hubby and start all over on rebuilding a new relationship. We are so much more attentive to eachother. We are in counseling with a new counselor. I gave up the other man before I came home. It was an emotional affair but I'll tell ya what, I was so in the fog I almost divorced my husband. We have been reconcilled for 4 months now and we love eachother more than ever now. There is hope. It took alot of changes from him for me to see that it can work, eventually I saw my own faults too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill

blindsideddad said:


> hi Lon, thanks for the affirmation! yes, I'm feeling better about myself than I have in years. I'm scared, but also very hopeful.
> 
> regarding the infidelity thing, I strongly doubt it, based on 3 things:
> 1. I know her character. I know, most ppl don't suspect an affair until too late, so this one does not hold much weight presently.
> 2. We have been very busy with young kids, and pretty much have done everything together as a family until last week. she doesn;t really have time (at least for a physical affair- emotional, maybe. )
> 3. I've looked at the the cell phone bill (family plan) and no strange phone#s. there are some texts to # that I don't know, but not a ton, not a ton to 1 particular, and none at inappropriate hours. She does FB text with ber brother, who is getting the divorce.
> 
> I am considering a straight forward approach. I want to ask her directly to show me her texts, and FB stuff. to explain that I don't suspect, but I need to be sure.
> 
> anyone think that is a mistake? not sure I will do it today, but that's is where I am leaning within the near future. or maybe wait until within the safety of MC session?
> 
> take care, everyone.


I just wanna say...and my husband Calvin can confirm this your number 1 means nothing...was so so out of character for me also and my hubby had me so fed up because like you he gave me negative attention...after our last fight I said screw it! Before that fight I was already so frustrated and looking for something to make me smile I found my ex boyfriend. I wanted someone to say nice things to me so forget your number 1. The rest...well you'll see...my hubby had no reason to think I was having an EA till I finally told him and left! Your marriage is on fire! Take this seriously it's not too late...us women can be busy but always have time to text text and text some more and it's very addicting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill

by the way don't go crying and begging and buying her things please...the more hubby did that the more he pushed me away...the more he got confidant and did the 180 the more he got my attention. Our story is long and kinda odd but before he could prove to me that he really was a changed man I needed to be awayu from him..needed that space..then later he was able to prove his love to me..yep it's complicated..just read all the newbie stuff they got on here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

Cantsitstill, thank you so much for you thoughts, time and honesty here. It means a lot to me! your story gives me hope.

In a way, she deserves to have been having an EA- stay at home mom with two young kids at home. husband who is not emotionally available, (I am pretty good at helping around the house, a great loving dad (if I do say so myself...), I cook and help clean when I can, but I think I used this as an excuse to be unavailable emotionally- she told me this in her own (nonconstructive) way many times. I just was too resentful to hear or understand). anyway, she has turned to friends for emotional support, in day to day stuff. I know that. 

And, yes, I am taking this very seriously. I am actually very GLAD that this has/is happening. I was walking dead. All of my feelings were dead. I did not enjoy daily interactions with others, my job (which is an absolute dream job). It felt great to finally cry. and after the tears, I am able to feel happy, and understand my part in the hell that we were in. And most importantly, I want to live well. At this point, I still deeply love her, but am in agreement with her that we are better off being separated and healthy/happy than where we were. I feel that we can be a great love story in the end, like you seem to be. but I am giving her all the space I can. (it;s a hard separation: we are broke, with 2 kids, 1 car, and 1 computer, we can't afford to go out and get even a studio apt. it's complicated!!)

I did cry, and tell her my feelings. told her that I think we were and always will be connected in our souls, that I love her deeply, and told her how I am appreciate what she did, and how I honor her strength and bravery to do it. etc.

but I also told her that if it weren't for the kids, I would agree with her that we are done. too much stuff to deal with , too big of a risk to try to come back together. 

Now am giving space. but thanks for your last comment, because I've also been fantasizing about the special dates that I want to ask her on, to show her how I care. Been wondering whether it's appropriate to try to woo her back at this point. sounds like it's toooooo soon!

And I don't want her to come back to me out of pity for my pain!!! I am taking many steps at self improvement- both emotional, and physical- for me. if it doesn't work out, I'll still have me.

and to MC we go. and IC too.


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## CantSitStill

This is not all your fault. Yes it is good to look at our own faults but you are married and don't deserve to be cheated on. As for divorce, sounds like you guys can't afford it at this time which buys you time to see if she comes back to you. I know this is hard, take it one day at a time. Hope your counseling helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

I'm sorry you're here and as someone who has happily reconciled with a husband who entered an emotional affair, I concur with those who alerted you to her vulnerability to infidelity.

Some books for you while you wait for IC / MC--they come highly recommended on the forum, each one serves a separate purpose. If money is tight, get them from the library. If the library doesn't have them, ASK FOR THEM VIA INTER-LIBRARY LOAN, you WILL get copies one way or another.

His Needs / Her Needs by Dr. Harley--free website questionnaire, persuade your wife to fill out Her Needs

Love Busters by Dr. Harley--get your wife to fill out the free website questionnaire

5 Love Languages--get your wife to take the fast free website questionnaire first, it's kind of fun and can jump start things in the right direction--many people express love the way they want to receive it so you may be like ships passing in the night

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If you feel some progress and things going in the right direction, then you want to read: The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by Gottman


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Make sure your marriage counselor is truly "pro marriage!" you will hear some horror stories about MCs pronouncing the marriage "dead" after a few sessions, or telling the spouse they were better off with their affair partner, or just plain no good. Don't be afraid to switch counselors if you sense they are making things worse.

Our marriage became vulnerable with the whole dad works all the time / SAHM / two tiny kids thing, except my husband was the one who sought out a co-worker as a confidant. But we pulled it back from the brink and I can tell you truthfully that the marriage is better than it ever was.


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## Lon

blindsideddad said:


> Cantsitstill, thank you so much for you thoughts, time and honesty here. It means a lot to me! your story gives me hope.
> 
> In a way, she deserves to have been having an EA- stay at home mom with two young kids at home. husband who is not emotionally available, (I am pretty good at helping around the house, a great loving dad (if I do say so myself...), I cook and help clean when I can, but I think I used this as an excuse to be unavailable emotionally- she told me this in her own (nonconstructive) way many times. I just was too resentful to hear or understand). anyway, she has turned to friends for emotional support, in day to day stuff. I know that.
> 
> And, yes, I am taking this very seriously. I am actually very GLAD that this has/is happening. I was walking dead. All of my feelings were dead. I did not enjoy daily interactions with others, my job (which is an absolute dream job). It felt great to finally cry. and after the tears, I am able to feel happy, and understand my part in the hell that we were in. And most importantly, I want to live well. At this point, I still deeply love her, but am in agreement with her that we are better off being separated and healthy/happy than where we were. I feel that we can be a great love story in the end, like you seem to be. but I am giving her all the space I can. (it;s a hard separation: we are broke, with 2 kids, 1 car, and 1 computer, we can't afford to go out and get even a studio apt. it's complicated!!)
> 
> I did cry, and tell her my feelings. told her that I think we were and always will be connected in our souls, that I love her deeply, and told her how I am appreciate what she did, and how I honor her strength and bravery to do it. etc.
> 
> but I also told her that if it weren't for the kids, I would agree with her that we are done. too much stuff to deal with , too big of a risk to try to come back together.
> 
> Now am giving space. but thanks for your last comment, because I've also been fantasizing about the special dates that I want to ask her on, to show her how I care. Been wondering whether it's appropriate to try to woo her back at this point. sounds like it's toooooo soon!
> 
> And I don't want her to come back to me out of pity for my pain!!! I am taking many steps at self improvement- both emotional, and physical- for me. if it doesn't work out, I'll still have me.
> 
> and to MC we go. and IC too.


BD, this is so well articulated and written - its almost as if you pulled me back in time. I understand about the relief and gladness you feel now, there is also acceptance for your part, a little remorse - it to me is the start of the roller coaster ride, and in real life roller coasters are not just scary but also can be a thrilling sort of fun.

I felt so much like you, in that same kind of place - realizing that despite all my good I was failing at meeting my W's needs, but I completely agree with CantSitStill, this IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

The reason I am adamantly trying to get you to find the affair is so you can make it inconvenient and also find your balls because honestly that is the only way to restore attraction. I believed that if I was myself, gave her the space she was asking for and tried to be patient and woo her back she would have eventually realized the magnitude of her decision.

Unfortunately it was too late and she was too far on the path of her new single life and getting the rush of having new men in her life. At this point for you, don't hold on to false hope that there is anything you can do to "woo" her, if she wants to look back she will, but her actions now will tell you what she wants, if she is able to continue an affair, she won't look back, they just don't so that is why its critical to make it as difficult to carry out because as time goes on, regardless of what she does, YOU will lose respect and attraction for her and will get to a point where you realize that you don't even want her because she is a different person than who you thought you knew. And there is no reason to feel guilt or shame about this because you have remained loyal and true to yourself, it is ALL HER that is unilaterally ending the marriage.

But right now is kind of time critical for busting up the affair and isn't really the time for introspection - its time to be a mean prick and stand your ground for being walked on and having your marriage destroyed. Now is time for a little rage (like you I had NONE at this point and I wish I had) and to direct it at her, another thing about determining an affair and exposing it is that you get a lot of emotional leeway from your support network and you are justified in nearly anything you do, so stop thinking and start acting man.


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## CantSitStill

iheartlife said:


> I'm sorry you're here and as someone who has happily reconciled with a husband who entered an emotional affair, I concur with those who alerted you to her vulnerability to infidelity.
> 
> Some books for you while you wait for IC / MC--they come highly recommended on the forum, each one serves a separate purpose. If money is tight, get them from the library. If the library doesn't have them, ASK FOR THEM VIA INTER-LIBRARY LOAN, you WILL get copies one way or another.
> 
> His Needs / Her Needs by Dr. Harley--free website questionnaire, persuade your wife to fill out Her Needs
> 
> Love Busters by Dr. Harley--get your wife to fill out the free website questionnaire
> 
> 5 Love Languages--get your wife to take the fast free website questionnaire first, it's kind of fun and can jump start things in the right direction--many people express love the way they want to receive it so you may be like ships passing in the night
> 
> --------------
> 
> If you feel some progress and things going in the right direction, then you want to read: The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by Gottman
> 
> 
> --------------
> 
> Make sure your marriage counselor is truly "pro marriage!" you will hear some horror stories about MCs pronouncing the marriage "dead" after a few sessions, or telling the spouse they were better off with their affair partner, or just plain no good. Don't be afraid to switch counselors if you sense they are making things worse.
> Our first counselor actually did that..pronounced our marriage officially dead
> 
> Our marriage became vulnerable with the whole dad works all the time / SAHM / two tiny kids thing, except my husband was the one who sought out a co-worker as a confidant. But we pulled it back from the brink and I can tell you truthfully that the marriage is better than it ever was.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill

our first counselor said our marriage was dead..was the last time we saw him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill

sorry was trying to reply in the pink area and screwed it up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

thanks for the affirmations, everyone! 
I just want to clarify- I don't think this situation is my fault, I realize, as does wife, that it took 2 to make this party. I have just spent so much time blaming her for all of our problems, I am really just now realizing how my behavior contributed also. 

that said, I am typically the one who backs down, says sorry in our fights, even when it is clear to me that we've both been jerks. I fear anger, and she has a lot of anger. so, yes, there are alot of things that she needs to accept/ admit/ work on before I will feel like we can be healthy together. 

love is one thing, but living like we were is another!


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## CantSitStill

It's just so familiar...Me being stay at home mom for years..putting the kids before hubby, him being a real a-hole to the point I couldn't stand him. I didn't think our marriage was fixable.. I felt so done but believe it or not now that we really got a good look at ourselves we are back in love again. It is like starting over in a new relationship and it's much better, we both have our boundries and communicate so much better now. My hope is you and your wife get to this point. I will keep you in my prayers because altho things are better he still hurts from my EA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

Lon said:


> BD, this is so well articulated and written - its almost as if you pulled me back in time. I understand about the relief and gladness you feel now, there is also acceptance for your part, a little remorse - it to me is the start of the roller coaster ride, and in real life roller coasters are not just scary but also can be a thrilling sort of fun.
> 
> I felt so much like you, in that same kind of place - realizing that despite all my good I was failing at meeting my W's needs, but I completely agree with CantSitStill, this IS NOT YOUR FAULT.
> 
> The reason I am adamantly trying to get you to find the affair is so you can make it inconvenient and also find your balls because honestly that is the only way to restore attraction. I believed that if I was myself, gave her the space she was asking for and tried to be patient and woo her back she would have eventually realized the magnitude of her decision.
> 
> Unfortunately it was too late and she was too far on the path of her new single life and getting the rush of having new men in her life. At this point for you, don't hold on to false hope that there is anything you can do to "woo" her, if she wants to look back she will, but her actions now will tell you what she wants, if she is able to continue an affair, she won't look back, they just don't so that is why its critical to make it as difficult to carry out because as time goes on, regardless of what she does, YOU will lose respect and attraction for her and will get to a point where you realize that you don't even want her because she is a different person than who you thought you knew. And there is no reason to feel guilt or shame about this because you have remained loyal and true to yourself, it is ALL HER that is unilaterally ending the marriage.
> 
> But right now is kind of time critical for busting up the affair and isn't really the time for introspection - its time to be a mean prick and stand your ground for being walked on and having your marriage destroyed. Now is time for a little rage (like you I had NONE at this point and I wish I had) and to direct it at her, another thing about determining an affair and exposing it is that you get a lot of emotional leeway from your support network and you are justified in nearly anything you do, so stop thinking and start acting man.


Lon, I just re-read your last. funny how one sees what one wants... 
I am feeling some anger this afternoon- when I read your post this AM, I completely missed your call to rage. 
I hear what you are saying- you wish you had been less understanding and more proacitve earlier, and you think that had you found out earlier, it may have worked out. that sucks. I can only begin to imagine how that feels, and am scared ****less that I already am doomed to share that fate. I hear you, and your advice is being taken to heart.


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## blindsideddad

cantsitstill, I really want to show W your last post to show her there is hope, but I am holding back. I have hope, but not. I am not talking with her about how I hope for us. 

she feels done, and is absolutely sure of herself. the worst part of it is that we;ve had some of the best talks we've had in years the last few days. We've calmly communicated and worked out a conflict that would have resulted in several days (at best) of crappy fights and 'tudes, and another resentment added to the pile. 

I say worst part 'cuz this seems to reinforce her belief that we are better separate. she just told me about a high-schooler that she knows- he is a superstar (grades, football, music, voted most likely to (something). she had asked him how he is so responsible- his answer was that his parents are divorced, and somehow it forced him to find himself and empowerment thru that. arrgh!!!! 

So I'm pissed. pissed that she's arrived here without me. pissed that I'm afraid she's right. Pissed that there is no evidence of an A. I've always thought that if my spouse had PA, I'd leave immediately. I almost want that just to have some clue of what will happen... but I'm sure it is much more complicated than that.

Is this where the 180 needs to come in? I need to read up on it, clearly. 

still, anything is better that where we were. and I continue to work out, shave every day, and smile as much as possible.


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## CantSitStill

Well yes sadly once she came to this conclusion that your marriage is done she doesn't feel angry anymore she doesn't care who was wrong or who was right. She is talking very civil right? I know because that's how I was. Yes look up the 180 and start now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill

She's still living in your home correct? Once hubby kicked me out and I went to my sisters house is when I was able to get my head straight. Had I not left the home..I may not have woke up and realized I loved him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

sounds about right. yes- talking very civil, no emotion. very open, but only for the sake of the kids. "wants to be friends again. only friends". says wants to be alone for a loooong time (that remains to be seen)

yes, she is still in the house. we are working on figuring out how to give space. so hard with kids, no cash! but we will get there soon. there are a couple of 1 or 2 week trips to visit our respective families (separately of course) over summer, but for me that's not soon enough. It's too weird. I told her so last nite she needed to get a job so we can move on with this. (in the past, that was a big trigger for her- for obvious reasons- now, was a civil convo.)

thanks so much for helping me understand what the F is going on!

off to read about 180. 

wish me luck!!!


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## CantSitStill

Gosh I am so sorry for you because you just reminded me how cold I was twords my husband, totally emotionless, like a hard shell. Trying to convince him that HE might be happier if we divorce.. Told him that h's miserable with me anyway. Told him I can never make him happy..Looked him in the eyes and said "I am not in love with you anymore" Hurt the hell outa him, I didn't like hurting him but felt that we were better off without eachother..OMG now he's wondering if I'll ever do that again and have another affair. I am so scared of him leaving me now because I love him more than anything and would NEVER do anything to risk losing him again...Let me explain, I resented him because he was a jerk, he knows that now and has changed so much and I absolutely love the husband he has become. I can't get enough of him..now I am actually very clingy with him. It's like our world got turned upside down, we now know how to treat eachother which is great but he can't erase the fact that I went runnin to my ex boyfriend which hurts him so badly.. sorry I'm talking too much
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

Seriously, thank you. You are showing me that ray of hope that I need, and helping me understand what might be going on in her head. Even though I feel like it's a long shot, I am a person who likes a challenge. I always choose the more difficult path. 

And, please don't feel bad for me (not yet at least). I too feel alive and whole again, suddenly, as a result of this crazy event. I know that may not make much sense, but we were both just jerks, and it's such a relief to accept my part, and realize that I am not a terrible person. I've felt like a terrible person for so long (she trained me good, and I trained her back- or vice versa).

I know there are *very* serious forces at work here, but I am facing them head on, and can accept the outcome (I hope!!).

were you scared at all when you thought you were done?


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## CantSitStill

umm I felt relieved, like I was always afraid but then decided I wasn't afraid anymore...but when I left the home for seperation(it was for 4 days at my sisters house) I had the biggest worst major panic attack..reality hit me and somehow hubby had a funny feeling something was wrong with me when he was at work so he texted me..i was alone, no one was home to rescue me at my sisters so hubby had a bad feeling and texted me..got me calm after a while, came and got me, fed me, took care of me, helped me pack up and took me home..I had finally slept..oh i was a mess..was seriously about to find someone to take me to the mental hospital...hubby rescued me and took care of me after I betrayed him and that was my proof that he really did love me..I didn't believe he really loved me till that moment and well I'm still here and very very happily in love with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

You guys are totally in love. so sweet. your story really keeps me feeling positive.
I can aspire to that while I wait. I was fearing and expecting months of separation (of course, everyone is different,and it may be months). But even if she realizes she's lost her damn mind, it *will* be months and months and months of recovery, cuz we have years of negative behavior to work on.

I am beginning to see her pain. At first when she decided this all, she felt great, and free. I thought for sure I was done for. 

So this afternoon, W was looking not so great. she has been sleeping terribly. she said she's been really stressing about the logistics. I told her as a husband, I;m done, but as a person, I am a little worried about how she is doing. says she is short with the kids, and cant be as good a mom as she wants. I've been letting her experience at least a little of the single life by staying at work late, letting her deal with bath/ bed routine, which used to be my "chore". so sh**, yes it's going to be stressful! (Here I thought she was getting happy.Ok that.s a little snarkey, but that's allowed at this point!). I;ve been telling (and showing) her how happy I am feeling. I still need to read up on 180- but this feels appropriate at this point. 

S**t, I love that woman, and want her to find herself and come back to me!

tomorrow, I'm going camping with friends, and the kids for the weekend, so when you don't hear from me, I havent; gone off the deep end or anything. 

have a nice weekend! Savor your relationship! funny how we don't appreciate what we have until we've lost it!


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## CantSitStill

Have a great trip, good time for you to get away, little vacation from your problems
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

ok, first thank you all for alerting me to the likleyhood of an A. I have seen enough, and it helped me prepare...

so the other day, I asked my kid (casually) for W's phone password. that sucked, but it was casual and she had no idea.

I just had the opportunity to snoop. when she was in Mexico comforting her brother, who is going thru his divorce, she made a 'friend' of her brother's friend. I was not able to figure the extent, but there are long texts between the 2. I don;t think anything happend, but it;s clear she enjoyed the sparks, and it was clear (to me) that he is interested. there have been texts since her return. and to recap, she told me shortly after her return about the sudden realization that she wanted to be alone, "but it;s not because of anyone else"

she walked in while I was checking the phone, and I panicked (?!) locked it and put it down qiuckly, but the FB texting app was left open to a particularly interesting text mentioning her drunkenly puking on his couch blankets, and her dress. so when she opens her phone, that will text show. right now, she is being very friendly. not sure if she realized it or not, but if not, she's got some crazy blinders on. wish I took a photo with my phone...

when she returned home, one thing she talked about is her total lack of interest in drinking. we are light social drinkers, but she used to drink excessively. actually, when we first started dating, I told her that I had an alcoholic father, and was not interested in dating a problem drinker. so she went to IC, and worked alot of stuff. before anyone judges her, i need to be honest and state that it took me MUCH longer to realize that I also had a problem- I was a stoner for years. that is also part of our present probs. but I digress.

I am very familiar with the freedom felt by a woman on vacation, and I can only imagine an neglected, bitter wife...

kids in the house right now, so I'm trying to be measured.. 

again, going camping soon, so I will be offline for the weekend...

oh, and she is planning on returning to Mexico in a few weeks with her dad to visit her bro! 
the plot thickens.

life is beautiful, and thru adversity, we thrive.


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## CantSitStill

OHHH WOW now you need to do all you can to get this proof oh my by the way this is not your fault at all she's the one that is being disloyal..she is having an affair and there is NO excuse for that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

W denies anything happened, any interest. Is totaly agahst that I would snoop...


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## iheartlife

Well, we know what's going to happen in Mexico.

This is a pattern that you will see if you read threads in the Coping With Infidelity forum.

It's the cheater who asks permission to cheat.

In one case, a woman asks her husband if it's okay if she goes to lunch with her male co-worker, constantly texts the man in front of her husband, and needless to say this turns into her wanting to sleep in the guestroom. Over a co-worker she is "just friends" with.

In another, the wife is comforting a local widower. She is visiting his home on a Saturday night alone and is lying about seeing her sister or a friend instead. Now she asks her husband for permission to go to a concert with him.

Those examples are obvious and overt. Another form it takes is entirely internal, where a cheater informs her husband that she believed they were already "mentally divorced."

This is why the alarm bells ring when out of the blue a spouse decided they're just done with the marriage.

They are in at least an emotional affair.

Are you going to let her go to Mexico? Is there a way you can go with her?


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## iheartlife

And please take a look at the book in my signature, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It is an incredibly detailed book on how emotional affairs start, thrive, function, and end. You can read most of it via google books I've linked in my excerpt, but it's really worth buying or checking out of the library.


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## keko

blindsideddad said:


> right now, she is being very friendly. not sure if she realized it or not, but if not, she's got some crazy blinders on.


This is a huge problem. In other words she can have multiple guys use her yet she'll put a big smile on her face and act normal, you wont realize a thing is wrong with her.

Which brand phone is she using?


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## keko

And please tell me she isn't an immigrant that married you for a green card.


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## CantSitStill

also kick her out, u keep the kids, tell her to have her stuff out before u get home
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

BD, DO NOT feel guilty about snooping on her phone, she is your W and being secretive and put up red flags. You are obligated to look at her phone. It would have been better if you'd had more time with it and didn't get caught looking because now she will be a lot more diligent about hiding anything inappropriate. There likely is a lot more to it than what you saw, as you know from reading on this site about this script they all seem to follow when it comes to trickle truth. So also realize that the blame shifting is also part of the script and if she's in a fog she will find all kinds of things to blame you for - this is why you need some strength, to not blindly trust and accept those things she has accused you of, to have some patience and wisdom to know what things you have and have not done and can and cannot change.

Good luck, I am glad you finally started to question that trust in her because she is abusing it and only you can stop it.


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## SadSamIAm

You were right to snoop. 

Tell your wife that when someone tells their spouse they want to be alone, 95% of the time they are actually saying they have met someone.

Your snooping confirmed that your wife is part of this 95%. If you ask her to show you all their texts, guaranteed that she will have deleted all their conversations.

She wants a break so she can cake eat. She wants to put you on hold so she can go back to Mexico to give it a shot with the new guy with no guilt. 

My guess is she already gave it a shot with the guilt. Not many people are willing to give up there marriage because of nice conversation with someone.


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## CantSitStill

Now I'm wondering..not sure if going camping is a good idea right now...I don't even know what to advise at this point..need more people to come to this thread and help..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DailyGrind

CantSitStill said:


> Now I'm wondering..not sure if going camping is a good idea right now...I don't even know what to advise at this point..need more people to come to this thread and help..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you should go camping (part of your 180)...but leave a couple VARS around the house, where you think she might call her AP. You being gone would probably be too much of an opportunity for her to get her fix, by talking to him.


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## blindsideddad

def going camping. it sustains me, rejuvinates m.
at this point, I don;t need proof- she needs to disprove. she;s not doing a good job yet, but ...

take care all!
wish me strength!!!!!


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## CantSitStill

You really have alot to think about but please don't let her get away with this..have a great trip
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ABeautifulDisaster

It makes more sense to me now. I had hoped that maybe you guys were just having a rough time....and heck maybe you are but the addition of an emotional affair or this other fellow stinks. At this point I hate to say it but I would snoop....further in fact....a million ways to do it....A keylogger is brilliant if the computer is linked to the problem....if not a phone bill talks too.....The only thing I can say is confront on solid ground if you can.....and what I mean by that is the next time you two have a conversation about this dude know a lot of the answers before you come to the party.....It makes it easier to see where you stand and what you need to do to move on...either in your marriage or in divorce....=( I'm sorry.


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## warlock07

Pretty sure that the brother did not need her there. She made the story up or volunteered herself generously to go along with the dad.


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## CantSitStill

sadly I agree Warlock, he's got his hands full
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

Hey team, I;m back. had a great trip, with great conversations (about guess what) with friends, and fantastic memories with the kids. 

hope everyone had a nice weekend!

got home, dropped off the kids, and went shopping. got some new clothes, and a new toy. after all, it's almost my b-day!

house looks like either she has moped around all weekend, or she was out. I she was pretty damn mopey on saturday (camping was with mutual friends,- she was there for a while and left early).  several friends asked me is she was ok.

I've had some time to think, I'm not going to get too heavy tonite. We start MC tororw. If anything else goes down tonite, i'll be back!!


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## iheartlife

ask your MC if they've read the book Not Just Friends, in my signature. It's a good litmus test to see how up the MC is on infidelity and the way it functions.


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## Entropy3000

blindsideddad said:


> Lon, I was checked out until this F***ng serious wake-up call. probobly not as much as her, but still. every morning, and eve after work, just the sight of her would make me just a grumpy a$$. I'd avoid eye contact, and genrally show little respect. I was very conscious of not being directly mean, but still. no good. at all. would yawn when she woudl try to talk about her feelings with me- standard jacka$$ stuff stemming from un-resolved resentments. I completely regret it all. but we both have some big resentments from unresolved issues, and she has obviously not been a cup of tea either. totally subconscious, until the wake-up call.
> 
> I appreciate all the calls about infidelity. y'all are trying look out for a guy in a hard spot, and that;s the most obvious, easy answer.
> I don't think I want to stoop so low as to snoop. It just does not feel right. My radar is on high alert, however, after all your calls, and reading other posts on TAM.
> 
> It is sudden, and out of the blue, but not. as I said, we've been checked out. I've been fantasizing about divorce my self for a while- but just fantasizing. the kids and my dreams of relationship improvement kept me in check.
> 
> today was a hard day- as you might imagine. I think she thought this would be easy considering how poor our relationship has been lately. not big fights, but just no connections, and as I said, I've been jerk, and she too.
> 
> well, we will continue to talk at nite, and hopefully get somewhere. either closure, or reconciliation. at least we can talk now! ironic.


Something happened on her trip out of the country. She met someone.


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## Entropy3000

blindsideddad said:


> ok, first thank you all for alerting me to the likleyhood of an A. I have seen enough, and it helped me prepare...
> 
> so the other day, I asked my kid (casually) for W's phone password. that sucked, but it was casual and she had no idea.
> 
> *I just had the opportunity to snoop. when she was in Mexico comforting her brother, who is going thru his divorce, she made a 'friend' of her brother's friend. I was not able to figure the extent, but there are long texts between the 2. *I don;t think anything happend, but it;s clear she enjoyed the sparks, and it was clear (to me) that he is interested. there have been texts since her return. and to recap, she told me shortly after her return about the sudden realization that she wanted to be alone, "but it;s not because of anyone else"
> 
> she walked in while I was checking the phone, and I panicked (?!) locked it and put it down qiuckly, but the FB texting app was left open to a particularly interesting text mentioning her drunkenly puking on his couch blankets, and her dress. so when she opens her phone, that will text show. right now, she is being very friendly. not sure if she realized it or not, but if not, she's got some crazy blinders on. wish I took a photo with my phone...
> 
> when she returned home, one thing she talked about is her total lack of interest in drinking. we are light social drinkers, but she used to drink excessively. actually, when we first started dating, I told her that I had an alcoholic father, and was not interested in dating a problem drinker. so she went to IC, and worked alot of stuff. before anyone judges her, i need to be honest and state that it took me MUCH longer to realize that I also had a problem- I was a stoner for years. that is also part of our present probs. but I digress.
> 
> I am very familiar with the freedom felt by a woman on vacation, and I can only imagine an neglected, bitter wife...
> 
> kids in the house right now, so I'm trying to be measured..
> 
> again, going camping soon, so I will be offline for the weekend...
> 
> oh, and she is planning on returning to Mexico in a few weeks with her dad to visit her bro!
> the plot thickens.
> 
> life is beautiful, and thru adversity, we thrive.


Yes. This was obvious. This is a major part of the history rewriting.

Her other behavior backed it up and was why everyone felt it was infidelity.
There is more to this of course. I know it is hard to hear but if this went further than you think, it would explain her behavior. 

She was trying to isolate you. Instigation, Isolation and Escalation.


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## blindsideddad

Ok. This whole thing seems so text book. It's tripping me out! I feel like a cross between Bruce Willis in that "I see dead ppl" movie and the father in the movie "life is beautiful". Clearly , not literally death, but death of what I've known for quite some time. 

So, W is being very nice to me ...

Good thing the text msgs were on Facebook. I looked at her profile, and the dude is no longer her friend. Does not seem like the actions of an innocent to me! Fishing continues on my part.

So, of this is so textbook, is there a chance that I can 'trick' her into giving up the beans? 

I also wonder if there is someone locally?? Does not seem like it, but I've said that b4! Since the epiphany coincided with the mex trip, it seems like a tight package.

And, to answer an earlier q, no, there is no green card issue. She is from USA, as am I.


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## keko

Is she ever late from work? Or works overtime? Goes shopping for hours but comes back with a few bags? Anything out of the ordinary or to make you suspicious?

Google her phone on how to extract deleted texts, incase she deletes a few here and there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

VAR in the car if she makes phone calls.


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## blindsideddad

Great ideas. Please keep them coming. 

Sounds to me like it is rare for the infidel (is that the right word??) to come clean without being cornered. True?

I randomly met a friend of hers while out walking the dog last nite. W took great interest in how. The friend is the type of person who W is 'threatened' by (jealous/envious/feels inferior to- the right word is escaping me). Is this a good sigh re 180? 

Also, trying to find more info on 180. It's hard to search on the phone.. If anyone has links, please post.

Another day dawns.


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## keko

blindsideddad said:


> Sounds to me like it is rare for the infidel (is that the right word??) to come clean without being cornered. True?


Maybe 1 in a million, even then its never the full truth. 



> Also, trying to find more info on 180. It's hard to search on the phone.. If anyone has links, please post.


Was it an iPhone?


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## keko

Also install a keylogger on her computer, just because she defriended the OM doesn't mean she stopped contact with him. It is very likely that was to keep a possible snooping from you to come back with empty results.

She could have a few secret email accounts, or uses another means of contacting.


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## Lon

BD, it is a possibility, depending on her personal reasons for affair (be it her desire to find something else or if someone wooed her) that there could be an OM#2. In my ex W's case there was, when I found about OM#1 she used it as a diversion to keep the more serious OM#2 hidden.

Just mentioning that as a warning... oh and also if she is feeling insecure about you bumping into one of her attractive friends that is a good "textbook" example of projection.

As for the 180, it is basically to allow you to decouple by stopping with the provisions that being in a relationship would bring to her, and also stopping dependence on the provisions she brings. And to do it in a way that minimizes harm to your own self-esteem.

Fence Sitters

As for investigate advice, the VAR, retrieving deleted messages/files/logs from her phone, phone records, credit card receitps, hire a PI or even have a trustworthy friend follow her and do surveillance, computer internet history - I found when I went through this kind of ordeal myself I began firing on all cylinders again, and you will find creative ways to check up on all this.


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## Entropy3000

blindsideddad said:


> Ok. This whole thing seems so text book. It's tripping me out! I feel like a cross between Bruce Willis in that "I see dead ppl" movie and the father in the movie "life is beautiful". Clearly , not literally death, but death of what I've known for quite some time.
> 
> So, W is being very nice to me ...
> 
> Good thing the text msgs were on Facebook. I looked at her profile, and the dude is no longer her friend. Does not seem like the actions of an innocent to me! Fishing continues on my part.
> 
> So, of this is so textbook, is there a chance that I can 'trick' her into giving up the beans?
> 
> I also wonder if there is someone locally?? Does not seem like it, but I've said that b4! Since the epiphany coincided with the mex trip, it seems like a tight package.
> 
> And, to answer an earlier q, no, there is no green card issue. She is from USA, as am I.


If she had someone local she would be less likely to do want ot go visit the guy in Mexcio. Not saying she is not a serial cheater toough as Lon points out.

I think she had a very intense time with the OM in Mexico. Any chance he could visit her?

I sense she wants to separate from you to pursue him .... or maybe just as likely she got a taste for this and just wants more of the same from other men.

So you should be monitoring her texts. What was in those long texts with the OM? or do you just know the number?

I know she caught you with her phone. In hindsight you should have insisted on reading what was there and just did it. Even if you just had to leave the house with it.


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## Entropy3000

keko said:


> Also install a keylogger on her computer, just because she defriended the OM doesn't mean she stopped contact with him. It is very likely that was to keep a possible snooping from you to come back with empty results.
> 
> She could have a few secret email accounts, or uses another means of contacting.


You can still receive messages without being friends.

One has to block them. if they get another account which is easy they can then exchange messages without being a friend.


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## Verushkita

hi bsd. i haven't posted on your thread yet, just subscribed to it, as i too was hoping for a good outcome. let us know how the MC is going. maybe you've already told us, but how old are you and your wife? and how old are you kids?

i went to MC with my husband, and it can get intense because the first time, there will be a lot to say and i felt like we didn't get it all out, even the sessions that followed after the first.

are you going to go in there and confront or are you going to go in there with the "i'm trying to work things out attitude" and/yet/but quietly gather more information?

good luck, i'm hoping the best for you =).


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## CantSitStill

So how's it going? How long are you gonna let this go on? She wants a divorce, have you gotten legal advice yet? Go ahead and plan this divorce as she wishes so you can see how serious she is about it. I know this hurts but you can't just sit by and let her get away with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill

I don't know how, but could someone please send him the 180 link?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

I posted it above, here it is again:

Fence Sitters

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.


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## CantSitStill

thanks Lon
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## This is me

There could be a MLCrisis behind all of this. The first post sounded so fimiliar. Walk Away Wife. They almost switch overnight, but think about it for months without saying anything.

If you want to save you marriage, be patient, strong and expect a minimum of a year before the fog lifts. One hell of a roller coaster ride.


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## blindsideddad

Yes, thanks Lon. I have been doing most all of this out of intuition. almost, I say. I need to work on consistency, and #18. I feel a little cold to her (obvious)
what about #10?? mixed message here!

going out dancing with friends tomorrow nite (for me; it's my special day). it's been a long time, and this is one of the ways that I was not a great hubby- it's been years, and of course she loves to. so we'll see how that goes.

and #6 : I spoke with her brother in mexico today. he equivocated that he was with her the whole time, and nothing happened. As he is going thru a divorce, I have reason to trust him (a little). 

I had lunch with a friend who's wife went the FULL PA. he gave me some good advice, book refs etc. his strength is inspiring, but I gotta say, I'm feeling a little down too. wow, I've got a long road ahead. one thing he said regarding her "i want to be friends for the kids" statement was "that's impossible for years". she is just totally lost right now, and I am feeling like I might be better off W/O.

From my friends perspective, if she hasn't had an A yet, she is still ripe to do so. 

so MC tomorrow- the C did not have any openings today. Without any evidence, and her so defensive re infidelity, I am not going to press any more than the 2 "convos" that we've had. I'm sure the MC if they alert will steer that direction.

that said, I am going to begin to pressure her to get out, get a job, and go. she def wants her cake and eat too.

Verushkita, we are both 38. kids are 6 and 3.5.- prime time for her to have a ML, (and/or an affair!). been SAHM for long time, we're broke, stress, bad communication, resentment etc.

she just texted me, asking for a favor (come home from work, bby sit while she goes out and gets a new toy). seriously. i;m ignoring for a while- 'cuz I want to tell her to F off. 

well, day by day, hour by hour.


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## blindsideddad

regarding dancing- to be clear, I'm going to 'ask' her to stay away.


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## keko

New toy?

Hopefully it wont take an hour to buy it. Check the receipt of where she'll go shopping and check the time it'll take to get there and back. Hopefully she has noone locally.


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## blindsideddad

new toy. I know what it is, cuz I bought it... a new phone. I know - bad timing. it was on big sale, and this will allow vid chats with the kids while we are sep. More for me than her, but at the same time, I realize it also seems like a peace offering. she want to go activate it.
again, she can wait.


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## Entropy3000

blindsideddad said:


> new toy. I know what it is, cuz I bought it... a new phone. I know - bad timing. it was on big sale, and this will allow vid chats with the kids while we are sep. More for me than her, but at the same time, I realize it also seems like a peace offering. she want to go activate it.
> again, she can wait.


Seriously? So now she can have vid chats. The timing is dubious.


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## Lon

and before you give it to her you installed some kind of utility to get backdoor access to chat logs right?


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## CantSitStill

oh I hope you get your hands on her phone first and do what you need to see what she's doing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

Ok. this website is pissing me off...
Ok, so I just wrote a reply, and it was deleted. note to self: copy all text b4 posting, JIC.

So, here is where I am at: 
yes, phone may seem to her like a peace offering, a weak move. I do feel a little wierd, but i am accepting that the sep is going to take place, and this is the cheapest way to say good nite to my kids when they are not with me. 

there is no A. when I snooped her phone, it was the same passcode she;s had for years, i;d just forgotten it and had to research. all I saw was a sortof frindly text (which to a jilted hubby, seemed worse than it was). she is not all that tech savvy. I talked with her brother, he is going thru what I am. he had no reason to lie. 

all this accusation is making me paranoid, and desperate. not where I need to be. 

from the beginning , ML seemed like the likely cause, and to me, it still does. I can accept and understand that she lost herself as a SAHM. she needs a walk about, and I'm going to give it to her. not a free one, bacuase she needs a reality check. on cake here.

I can also accept that everyone who has cheated or been cheated on will see an affair. maybe I;m wrong, but I'd rather be wrong in a good headspace than right and paranoid and desperate. in a good headspace, I can move on, and be a good rolemodel to the kids. paranoia will not help there.

My eyes are still open for suspicion, but I;m fighting this fight with positivity from now on. being negative got me here in the first place, and through my whole life, positivity has taken me further and faster, so I'm going to stick to what I know.

if there is hope, great. If not, I will thrive.

thru adversity, we either grow or wither. I choose growth.


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## This is me

If it is MLC and from what you shared sounds very much like what mine went through, it will be a fog for awhile, but if handled correctly, should lift over time.

I found the book Divorce Busting covered MLC, WAW and gave me the inspiration and encouragement to be patient. We are well on our way to recovery.


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## blindsideddad

Thanks. We had a good long talk last nite. I suggested MLC to her And she was receptive. She wishes she could give me a better answer. All she Knows is she needs space. She needs to finds herself. I *fully* support this. She has definitely lost herself. I Am strong enough to wait. 

Honestly, I could use it too. Over the last 2 weeks , I have both discovered And rediscovered many great relationships that I've been blind to for a long time. I've been so lost I the anger and resentment of our marriage, I've been too down to notice. My father (tear!) sister, friendS. (I've got some work to do with my mother- that's a long story there, but I've uncovered a lot of resentment there and am facing it)

I told her she could to go on a walkabout if needed. 

She has been looking into house sitting over summer as a way to sep w/o cost. Been looking at getting some income.

MC later today. We are in a good spot to start. 

It's going to be a good day.


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## Entropy3000

I suggest that you guys stay together and work on your marriage and not separate. I see you are of the mind to give her space.

Good luck.


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## CantSitStill

Hoping and praying MC helps, I was in MC Before I was ready and pretty much stood my ground on getting divorce, that darn fog was in the way..don't get discouraged..hopefully she will wake up like I did but it may take a while. Praying for ya, let us know how it goes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad

I totally expect it to take a while. I need my own space too right now . Thanks for the support CSS. Just knowing u turned it around gives me hope and the will to wait. I think she needs unconditional support, which is something that I've been bad at giving in the past. I need to rebuild her trust, and she mine. That will certainly take time.

MC went very well. (But see above).


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