# What to do about a cheating friend?



## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

You cannot surround yourself safely in a cesspool and think that the smell is something you'll get used to because if you do, let there be no doubt the change will be an unhealthy one.

Watching someone you call a friend betray themselves is not a good road for self... if you accept it in one place, why wouldn't you in another?

I would have to remove myself from this circle of friendship and let the person know why if asked... that it simply hurts to watch someone make such detrimental decisions in their life and you choose not to be part of it. This is not judgemental, this is walking a path best for you in truths.

I would then let them also know that if they choose a better path, they will find my friendship waiting there for them once it is walked again.

I have done this and wished them well... I have not met them on that better path yet.

Is this other voice of "sanity" willing to let go, or at least be honest to the risk of losing the friendship?

We should hope all our friends be so forthcoming to help us see the things that hurt us...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It's really contingent upon how close that you are to his W! If you are indeed close to her, then IMHO, there'd be nothing remotely wrong with placing a bug in her ear!*


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I wouldn't confront him. He'll just go farther underground with it all. Accept that the friendship is already in jeopardy because of what he did, not you. You cannot trust him. 

What do you do?

Edit: If I confronted someone, it would be his wife, not him. Hope that clears up any confusion.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

a.) You're primarily friends with the alleged cheating spouse, and not really friends with the wife.

b.) You heard from another friend--secondhand--that there is an affair going on, and you only know because this other friend told you. You didn't witness anything, nor do you have first-hand knowledge.

c.) The couple in question has little to no resources to support the betrayed wife, should she choose to take action or leave her alleged cheating spouse.

Stay out of it. If you want to keep your friends, stay out of it. It is none of your business. If you tell on him, your friend (the alleged cheater) will end your friendship, because of one of two reasons: 1) you outed his cheating a$$ to his wife, or 2) he isn't actually cheating, and you caused his wife a lot of emotional pain because of a rumour. The wife won't be your friend anymore, either, _because even though you are just the messenger_, she will still see you as the one who broke the new to her that ended her marriage, and you are primarily friends with her cheating husband. Or, if he is innocent, you're the b!tch who tried to ruin her marriage.

NOTHING good will come from you saying something. Keep your mouth shut, and if the sh!t hits the fan, pretend like you didn't know anything. You have plausible deniability.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mizzbak said:


> I have found out that a friend is cheating on his spouse. A ONS and now (because the affair partner is far away) a long distance emotional affair. I’ve known him for years. I don’t know his wife that well, but I would classify them as “couple friends” of my husband and I. Except that they are currently far away in another country, so we don’t see them very often. They have young kids. (I know via another friend. Who didn’t want to break the confidence, but doesn’t know what to do, so asked for my advice because of my own recent experience.)
> 
> I do know that their marriage has been unhappy, at least from his side, for a while. He is HD and she is LD, he is physically affectionate and she is not. He has previously tried to change things to create more intimacy, but apparently there was no success/willingness or energy on her part to change. I know he did try, repeatedly to express dissatisfaction. And he didn’t feel like he got anywhere. I also suspect that he is crap at having the necessary conversations around sexual and emotional intimacy. That said, they are currently in a country where access to marriage counselling in their home language is nigh on impossible. His loneliness in this country where he doesn’t speak the language (he is a very social animal) has also contributed to his state of mind.
> 
> ...


Didn't I just read your husband did this to you? How can you justify watching this "friend" do it to someone else when you know how it feels? I just don't get it. Sorry, just being a shoulder to cry on would be too much enablement for me. 

Your gut response is because it's wrong and you know it, plus you know how it feels. You should be proud of that fact not trying to tamp it down. 

Finally judging people by their actions is common sense and nothing to be ashamed about. The idea that we shouldn't judge people by what they do is is a silly modern philosophy that makes you very vulnerable. There is no shame in judging people, everyone does and should. What are his actions telling you about him?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

He's put you in a difficult situation. His wife definitely deserves to know what he's done whether or not your are close to her or not. You'll probably lose this friendship but I think that with the information that you have that you'll have to tell her what's going on. Would you want to know if it was you?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> NOTHING good will come from you saying something. Keep your mouth shut, and if the sh!t hits the fan, pretend like you didn't know anything. You have plausible deniability.


Terrible advise. 

Who cares if she loses her friendship to some cheating scumbag?!? Who needs friends like that? What you think he is going to lie to his wife all day and never lie to the OP? 

Please.....

@Mizzbak Tell the wife, anonymously if you're scared. If she chooses to ignore the information then that's her problem. You fulfilled your moral obligation. Like you said, "I'd want to know".


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Stay out of it... 

- Nuh uh. Screw that OP. I think she deserves to know. If you're concerned about him finding out you spilled the beans then send an anonymous letter to the wife in the mail or email etc.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Tell the wife and dump this guy. He is backstabbing someone he made commitments to and you don't think he will screw you over if the oppotunity arises. You don't want a friendship with someone of low character.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

OK, seriously, people!!! Have you all missed the fact that she doesn't actually know for a fact that the friend is cheating??? She was told this by another friend. Who could be making sh!t up. Who could be lying because he hates this couple, or just the guy in question. Who could just be a gossip monger. Who knows? 

Never destroy someone else's marriage unless you have irrefutable proof, and know first-hand. If anyone should break the news to the wife, it should be the "friend" who told the OP. The OP got dragged into this unwillingly, by someone else who was too chickensh!t to tell the wife.

How reliable and trustworthy is this "friend" who dragged the OP into this situation?


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Ah the good ole "should I tell on a friend or should I stay out of it" debate.

You ask 100 people it will probably split 50/50 more or less with some differences based on the specifics.

In this case, she's low drive, he's high drive, he's tried to some extent to fix things, now he's given up on her and getting it elsewhere but staying married probably because it's cheaper to keep her, the marriage is in the skids and they both know it, I'd be more inclined to stay out of it as compared to, say a marriage that the betrayed spouse is being completely hoodwinked and hasn't done anything to worsen the situation (mainly denying their spouse regular sex).


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Thanks @FeministInPink for your words of caution. 

...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Does she have family here or in the country they will be moving to at the end of the year? 

Do they have children?

How old are they(children and/or this couple)?

How long married?

Does he have family here?

Does she work?

Can she support herself?


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

And thank you @Emerging Buddhist

Your words are wise and because of them, my thoughts are also wiser than they were. 
He is my friend who has done a bad thing. 
I cannot countenance the bad thing, but I can welcome the friend back once he is done with the doing of it.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

browser said:


> In this case, she's low drive, he's high drive, he's tried to some extent to fix things, now he's given up on her and getting it elsewhere but staying married probably because it's cheaper to keep her, the marriage is in the skids and they both know it, I'd be more inclined to stay out of it as compared to, say a marriage that the betrayed spouse is being completely hoodwinked and hasn't done anything to worsen the situation (mainly denying their spouse regular sex).


It's actually entirely possible that this guy's wife is a great spouse, that their sex life is normal or better, and that she is being completely hoodwinked and has done nothing to worsen the marriage. 

Interestingly, cheaters are known to lie. In fact, they not only lie to their spouse, but they also often lie to other people about their spouse. Why? Because cheating on a great spouse who's doing everything any rational human could expect of a partner, including shagging their spouse silly on the regular, makes the cheater sound like an asshat. Most people don't like appearing to be an asshat to others. So, they have to justify their cheating - to themselves and to others - by vilifying their partner. And, suddenly, a spouse who's actually pretty danged awesome, is magically transformed into a fat, lazy, incompetent, selfish, LD who is completely at fault for 'problems' in the marriage. While the cheater has, just as suddenly and just as magically, spent years trying to fix their marriage in the face of all sorts of organized resistance from their awful betrayed partner. Or, at least that's the story the cheating partner tells outsiders who find out about the cheating. Because, again, it's all about justification and not looking like an asshat. 


OP, I would be pretty wary of believing anything a cheater says about their spouse. One-time cheaters will re-write marital history to justify their cheating. Serial cheaters will have a consistent ongoing narrative about their horrible spouse as the standard go-to for outsiders because they need to justify repeated cheating behaviors over the long term.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@Mizzbak Thanks for the clarification of 1) the source, 2) the nature of the information and how it was obtained by your mutual friend, and 3) how this affects you, your triggers, etc.

This mutual friend has put you in a difficult spot, no doubt. I think his intervention idea may be the way to go, before blowing up his marriage by telling his wife as the first course of action. Many betrayed spouses are advised to expose the affair to the cheater's friends and family, with the idea that peer pressure from those whose approval matters most to him will show him that he is headed down the wrong path. It sounds like your mutual friend has been trying to do this on his own, to no avail, unfortunately. So I don't think a one-on-one intervention will have much more input. Your mutual friend could threaten to tell the wife if the cheater won't end the affair and come clean, but that just might drive the cheater more underground.

How do you think the wife will react, if you (or your mutual friend) tells her about the affair?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Intervention will only have a chance of working if his whole family is there along with the preacher or parish priest and his wife. Even in that case, as @Rowan said, he will lie until he is confronted with evidence they have all seen prior to the intervention. 

He may even attempt to berate his wife in front of his family, to justify his actions. I'm for saving the innocent from being harmed, not the guilty.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I would stay out of it for a few reasons:

You don't really know what is happening, you are only hearing part of the story.

Your intervention could actually make things worse. He (if telling the truth) is in a HD/LD marriage. He may have considered and decided that he was not willing to live without sex and could either cheat or leave. If he is exposed the marriage will likely end. That may not be the best thing for his wife. 

He will view this as your betraying him. 


The old proverb about walking miles in someone's shoes is worth remembering. 

Its not a case of saying what he is doing is OK, but rather of understanding that life is complicated and its good to avoid judging others.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Money, without dignity, is a curse. 

All we have is what we believe about ourselves. What do you think she will believe when she finds out that he has been cheating for years. If she wants to stay with him, she has that choice. Telling her doesn't force her to divorce him. It may even make her life better than it is now, if she has this knowledge. 

If he wants to stay with her, it won't matter if she knows. He will lie and stay, or he can man up and tell her the truth and let her have a choice in her own life's course, while facing the consequences of his choices.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

This is definitely a difficult position to be in but you know that what he is doing is very very wrong and most people who are being cheated on would have wanted others who knew to let them know.

Perhaps you could consider letting her know anonymously
1. set up a mail account she cannot trace
2. send her a mail with whatever you know - no embellishments
3. say you are a concerned 'friend' and want her to first of all to investigate rather than accuse her husband and find out for herself
4. tell her to come to TAM for help in how to proceed (move your thread first so you cannot be identified) with her investigation.

In this way you are passing back the responsibility of knowing and finding out onto her and she will have to make her own decisions on how to proceed.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

My best friend was cheating on his wife. I told him over and over to stop, but he wouldn't, so I exposed him to his wife because I knew it was the right thing to do. At the time, my wife was telling me to stay out of it. But my conscience would not allow me to keep that kind of secret. They reconciled and to this day, he thanks me for what I did for him by setting him back on the right path. He's still my closest friend today.

I would do it again in a heartbeat. A true friend will not condone the wrong actions of their friend, nor keep their secret. If you lose that friend, then so be it, but at least you tried to do the right thing.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I agree with several posters put together. 

I'd not want to get directly involved but I'd try to send the message anonymously.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

For every time that this guy says your mutual friend is cheating, tell him that he ought to inform the wife. See if he keeps accusing the friend of cheating.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Mizzbak said:


> And thank you @Emerging Buddhist
> 
> Your words are wise and because of them, my thoughts are also wiser than they were.
> He is my friend who has done a bad thing.
> I cannot countenance the bad thing, but I can welcome the friend back once he is done with the doing of it.


Right, which is why it's better to talk to your friend, as opposed to his wife, who you don't really know.

Whether it sounds nice or not, your loyalty is towards him, not her. You may feel bad for her, but the fact is, you don't really know her.

In this case, I'd be doing everything I could to get him to put an end to it AS WELL AS confess to her, and if he doesn't, then bye bye friendship. If that doesn't light a fire under his ass, then he's not worth being your friend in the first place.

If she was your friend, then in that case - hell yes, I'd tell her. But she's a 'friend through marriage', for lack of a better term. If she's not somebody you spend time with, without her husband around, then she's not really a friend, except for by association.

My wife and I, like most couples, have numerous 'couple friends'. I'll use three as an example:

One, the woman is my wife's best friend, and they've known each other for years. She's been in an LTR for over 10 years with a guy. My wife spends a lot of time with her, but neither of us see _him_ unless she's around.

The second is also a long-time friend of my wife's and she's been married for many years to a great guy. Not only do we spend 'couple time' with them, she also spends time alone with her, and I alone with him.

The third is a child-hood friend of mine. He's been married for only a few years, and they have young kids. I haven't spent any time with him alone in years, and we only ever see them as a couple. The four of us do things together, and that's it. Never two of us, not even three of us - always all four of us.

In the first example, it would be up to my wife to talk to her friend - not her partner. And not up to me, IMO. This woman is primarily my wife's friend, and she's my friend by association. Her partner is the same.

In the second, any one of us would be able to discuss such a subject with anyone else. We're all friends, and not 'by association'. It would suck to have to do so, but I think any one of us would do it, if necessary.

In the third - I would be the only one to discuss anything like that, and only with my buddy. If he was the cheater, I'd be talking to him. If she was the cheater (and I have irrefutable proof), I'd break it to him. I know he'd do likewise.

The dynamics of the relationships are all very different, and it's not always one's place to, I don't want to say 'get involved', but... It's usually best left to the people involved who are actually the friends, not the ones who are friends by association or marriage. That's just my IMO.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Thanks for all your input and time.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks for the update. 

I'm glad you made a decision you can live with.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You'd want to know, right?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I would hate if a man I was with was cheating and I didnt know. I would always want to be told. The lying and deception is as bad as the affair itself. 
My advise, your friend can tell the cheater that if he doesnt tell his wife in 2 weeks time someone else will. 
I feel for his wife so much.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I agree on perhaps waiting to see how the conversation goes between X and Z.

However, I am firmly in the camp of exposing to the betrayed. They deserve to make fully informed decisions about their own life. Plus, their health and life are in jeopardy from various diseases and jealous lovers. Yet this is tricky because you don't know for a fact Z cheated. He probably did, but you don't know for sure.

I would expose in your situation, but I would present it as "word is going around that your husband had a ONS with _____". I would provide some backup information as to when and where it happened, and the alleged continued EA. I would also provide some information about how to investigate his emails, text messages, etc so that she can try to find real facts. I would caution against premature confrontation, and reiterate the prime directive of never ever reveal a source of information to the cheater. I would also further state that I hope I am wrong, and that I am praying her marriage becomes ever stronger.

It seems your information is good, not just idle malicious gossip. Still, you don't know 100%. That makes it important to only state things as they really are.


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