# want to put this to bed



## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I had an affair. Hubby had two affairs after mine. Aren't we both responsible for our own affairs? Do we both get to act out pain til kingdom come? 

we are not fighting about this.. but I'd really like to forgive myself. I DO need to know what I'm forgiving myself for... my affair was 6 years ago.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If you've done all the hard work necessary to understand why you did what you did, if you feel true remorse for the hurt you caused, then, sure, you can forgive yourself.

Remorse is key, in my opinion. You have to feel it yourself & your B/WH has to feel it from you.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

everyone is responsible for their own choices. 

if you are ready to forgive yourself, than do so. 

but...if you are asking -you probably aren't ready


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

The COMBO WS/BS is a nasty sitch emotionally. There is guilt, shame, remorse, sadness, fear, and HURT. Self-inflicted hurt and then spousal hurt. IDK You may need to spend some years(decade) alone just to unwind it all..DUDE


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Have you forgiven hubby?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

yes, I've forgiven him. Having trouble with some current issues due to triggers but I don't think forgiveness covers that.


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

just curious, if you hadnt had your affair, do you think he would have had his? Or did he feel a bit justified by yours?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

MRR said:


> just curious, if you hadnt had your affair, do you think he would have had his? Or did he feel a bit justified by yours?


I don't think he would have.. He felt justified. Then I was raped and he had another one - "I had two, he got to have two"... but we're beyond that now..but you can see some hurtful things went on...


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

I think is an example of a major issue with reconciliation after an affair. When you marry you have this incredible trust and love in your spouse. The affair hits like sledge hammer, that trust never comes back, I don't care what anyone says it doesn't, not like it exists in a marriage where an affair never happened. The spouse who was cheated on also never allows himself/herself to fully commit back to the relationship, they won't ever allow that level of openness and emotional reliance on the wayward spouse again, this is a way to protect against what they see as inevitable future hurt caused by their spouse through another affair. So they pull away emotionally. All of this leaves the door open for affairs on both sides.

Having to do it over again, I never would've reconciled, not because I didn't/don't love my wife, it's just not worth the trouble for a marriage that will never be able to reach the potential of what the marriage should have been. It's just ruined and tainted and always will be.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> I think is an example of a major issue with reconciliation after an affair. When you marry you have this incredible trust and love in your spouse. The affair hits like sledge hammer, that trust never comes back, I don't care what anyone says it doesn't, not like it exists in a marriage where an affair never happened. The spouse who was cheated on also never allows himself/herself to fully commit back to the relationship, they won't ever allow that level of openness and emotional reliance on the wayward spouse again, this is a way to protect against what they see as inevitable future hurt caused by their spouse through another affair. So they pull away emotionally. All of this leaves the door open for affairs on both sides.
> 
> Having to do it over again, I never would've reconciled, not because I didn't/don't love my wife, it's just not worth the trouble for a marriage that will never be able to reach the potential of what the marriage should have been. It's just ruined and tainted and always will be.


I think you are winning me over to this way of thinking. I once thought some could actually reconcile and be as normal as any marriage but evidence is stacking in your direction. Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

well we have decided to reconcile. Also, trust is not 100% but not a huge issue.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> well we have decided to reconcile. Also, trust is not 100% but not a huge issue.


If you could crawl into your husbands head you may think again on that.

Are you two in counseling?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

we were dismissed from counseling a year ago..
He has said he trusts me about as much as I trust him.. 
but if not, I wish he'd let me know.

we are both in IC still though....


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> well we have decided to reconcile. Also, trust is not 100% but not a huge issue.


doomed


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> doomed


I'm here for constructive feedback that's not about trust. And so far, so good.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> we were dismissed from counseling a year ago..
> He has said he trusts me about as much as I trust him..
> but if not, I wish he'd let me know.
> 
> we are both in IC still though....


What were you dismissed for? 

His reply on trust doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement. You can't tell if his affairs would've happened if you never had yours, but it's possible he's basically staying married but not going to let a good thing pass him by now, or commit fully back to you. 

You two should try MC again, one affair is likely a death knell, two seems like the jugular shot to the marriage. Your husband is almost more to blame, having been the victim of an affair he knows the pain it caused, at least you can claim some level of ignorance to the damage and destruction it was going to cause.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

his affairs weren't recent. We're coming up on 4 years ago... 
I'm not sure what we would even discuss in MC.. 
I WOULD like more openness on feelings from him. 
We need to appreciate having made it this far.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

stephscarlett said:


> I had an affair. Hubby had two affairs after mine. *Aren't we both responsible for our own affairs?*


Yes.



stephscarlett said:


> Do we both get to act out pain til kingdom come?


Depends on what you want, I suppose.



stephscarlett said:


> we are not fighting about this.. but I'd really like to forgive myself. I DO need to know what I'm forgiving myself for... *my affair was 6 years ago.*


When did your husband learn of the affair?

How long ago were his affairs? Within the past couple of years, right? One PA and one EA/possibly PA, right?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I confessed. his were almost 4 years ago... both PA. I caught him going at it with one.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

stephscarlett said:


> I confessed. his were almost 4 years ago... both PA. I caught him going at it with one.


How long had the affair been over when you confessed?

Sorry, I know you've answered some of these questions in other threads.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I was in it when I confessed. And then ended that day.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

knobcreek said:


> I think is an example of a major issue with reconciliation after an affair. When you marry you have this incredible trust and love in your spouse. The affair hits like sledge hammer, that trust never comes back, I don't care what anyone says it doesn't, not like it exists in a marriage where an affair never happened. The spouse who was cheated on also never allows himself/herself to fully commit back to the relationship, they won't ever allow that level of openness and emotional reliance on the wayward spouse again, this is a way to protect against what they see as inevitable future hurt caused by their spouse through another affair. So they pull away emotionally. All of this leaves the door open for affairs on both sides.
> 
> Having to do it over again, I never would've reconciled, not because I didn't/don't love my wife, it's just not worth the trouble for a marriage that will never be able to reach the potential of what the marriage should have been. It's just ruined and tainted and always will be.


This. 

I've been having a rough week, trying to act normal around the kids and my H, but remembering the past and wishing it had never happened for either of us. The holidays make faking a happy marriage that much harder.

My situation is similar to yours OP and I so wish I could give you a rosy future outcome. We've been dealing with it now for almost a decade.

My H cheated first with multiple partners and then I had an EA, which I'm still struggling to get over. Sometimes I wish I could take a drug to make me forget it all and go all in with my H again. But it's not possible really to ever completely go back to the innocent love we once shared. That's not to say we didn't have tons of problems back then, but the cheating took it to a whole other level. I think that It is a rare couple that is able to successfully stuff the genie back in the bottle. 

I'm really unsure about what to do and the ***** of it is it feels like it's all on me. My H wants to just move on, forget the past, but I'm not built that way. He's being patient, he'll hang on until we're both to old to care, which isn't that far given that we are both on the other side of 55. But I'm not sure that's a way to live. In the end, when it comes to cheating, we all have to fight that battle alone. 

Right now I'm sick of it. I don't want this to define who I am and sometimes it feels they way. 

My advice is to wait until after the new year to make any new decisions.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Am I the only one troubled by the fact that she was raped so that justified him having a second affair? 

The first one on his part I can understand but leveling the playing field after a rape says volumes about his character. 

Unless he doesn't believe it was a rape.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> I had an affair. Hubby had two affairs after mine. Aren't we both responsible for our own affairs? Do we both get to act out pain til kingdom come?
> 
> we are not fighting about this.. but I'd really like to forgive myself. I DO need to know what I'm forgiving myself for... my affair was 6 years ago.


Forgiveness is a lot easier if you believe you've grown and changed. At this point you and your husband have both cheated so use that history to come up with a plan where neither of you ever cheat again. Then what you've learned from your history is part of the solution.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I too am confused. If you were raped how in the hell does he think that he is justified
in having another affair. Being raped in NOT an affair. This is just too bizarre.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Well learning and growing is PART of reconciliation..,


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Am I the only one troubled by the fact that she was raped so that justified him having a second affair?
> 
> The first one on his part I can understand but leveling the playing field after a rape says volumes about his character.


Wow. I missed that in my inadvertent jump from the initial post to page 2.



lifeistooshort said:


> Unless he doesn't believe it was a rape.


Any commentary on that, @stephscarlett?

Why wouldn't he believe that you were raped?

Not doubting you... just trying to understand.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Am I the only one troubled by the fact that she was raped so that justified him having a second affair?
> 
> The first one on his part I can understand but leveling the playing field after a rape says volumes about his character.
> 
> ...


Not really a surprise actually, because she is unlikely to be emotionally available to him due to the damage of the rape, as well as his dealing with sexual hormones. On top of that he will be having emotional issues and anger and violation of his own masculinity/protector aspects which will all be threatened.
He will be a walking target for anyone who wants to sympathise with him and offer comfort - also his sorry tale of woe, strong anger, and emotional vulnerabilities are likely to be difficult to resist for any female of his level or lower that is semi-available.

the question is - is it a one off indiscretion, and now he knows better than to let himself get in that position. Or did they rendezvous again? Or has he identified this as a possible method for getting sexual activity?

There is a lot to work on in this marriage, but it would require huge amounts of openness - also the damage and pain means that when one of you hits 45-50 then one or both of you is likely to leave, and want to move on with a more fun fulfilling life .


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

bryanp said:


> I too am confused. If you were raped how in the hell does he think that he is justified
> in having another affair. Being raped in NOT an affair. This is just too bizarre.


Bryanp, I am glad you picked up on this point. I agree with what you say. The OP's WH is a POS if he equates rape with an affair! Instead of comforting his wife he goes out and has an A, what sicko does that?

The other take is that it was not a rape, but you got into a compromising position and well.......... This IS bizarre!:surprise:


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

bryanp said:


> I too am confused. If you were raped how in the hell does he think that he is justified
> in having another affair. Being raped in NOT an affair. This is just too bizarre.


I think this was anger over my affair and helplessness and anger at me for not protecting myself. 
However, some ppl think I'm totally to blame for everything (not the rape of course) but others think each person responsible for own actions. 
I need to forgive myself. Completely. And not blame myself for triggers or lowered expectations I have in the marriage simply because i did it first...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

stephscarlett said:


> I don't think he would have.. He felt justified. Then I was raped and he had another one - "I had two, he got to have two"... but we're beyond that now..but you can see some hurtful things went on...


So he is equating you being raped to another affair?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

He believes I was raped. We called the police! 
I think he was acting out anger. So I became a victim yet again of the rape, which I'm pissed about but it was 4 years ago. Trying to move on and we are... It was dealt with. MC ripped him a new one for what he did. 
He is sorry 
We are 49 and 53.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

knobcreek said:


> I think is an example of a major issue with reconciliation after an affair. When you marry you have this incredible trust and love in your spouse. The affair hits like sledge hammer, that trust never comes back, I don't care what anyone says it doesn't, not like it exists in a marriage where an affair never happened. The spouse who was cheated on also never allows himself/herself to fully commit back to the relationship, they won't ever allow that level of openness and emotional reliance on the wayward spouse again, this is a way to protect against what they see as inevitable future hurt caused by their spouse through another affair. So they pull away emotionally. All of this leaves the door open for affairs on both sides.
> 
> Having to do it over again, I never would've reconciled, not because I didn't/don't love my wife, it's just not worth the trouble for a marriage that will never be able to reach the potential of what the marriage should have been. It's just ruined and tainted and always will be.


And yet I know people who reconciled and have no issues with trust. They were able to work through not only the affair but other problems in the marriage and as a result now feel that they have a stronger marriage.

There is no one experience. People are individuals and handle things differently. So their outcome is different.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

stephscarlett said:


> I think this was anger over my affair and helplessness and anger at me for not protecting myself.
> However, some ppl think I'm totally to blame for everything (not the rape of course) but others think each person responsible for own actions.
> I need to forgive myself. Completely. And not blame myself for triggers or lowered expectations I have in the marriage simply because i did it first...


"anger at me for not protecting myself." Does this mean that he blames you for being raped?

Each person is responsible for their own choices. You only need to feel guilt/blame for your own actions.

He need to deal with his own. Does he blame you for his affairs?

Is he still verbally/emotionally punishing you for your affair?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> *And yet I know people who reconciled and have no issues with trust.* They were able to work through not only the affair but other problems in the marriage and as a result now feel that they have a stronger marriage.
> 
> There is no one experience. People are individuals and handle things differently. So their outcome is different.


I don't think I'll ever _completely_ believe this. You might get close (maybe 95% to 99.9%, perhaps), at which point you learn to just deal w/ the remainder on your own.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> stephscarlett said:
> 
> 
> > I think this was anger over my affair and helplessness and anger at me for not protecting myself.
> ...


He did blame but doesn't now. Or at least is over it. No he is not punishing me, nor me him. I maybe punish myself...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm getting confused. What is the problem that you are dealing with right now?

Is it that he is blaming you for your affair and his affairs?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I don't mean to continue dwelling on this, but I don't get how he could blame you for being raped.

And I hope I'm not too out-of-line in asking this, but who was it that raped you? It wasn't OM, was it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

stephscarlett said:


> He did blame but doesn't now. Or at least is over it. No he is not punishing me, nor me him. I maybe punish myself...


If this is about you punishing yourself, it's time to let it go. By continuing to punish yourself, you are making your life about the affair... and in some ways this punishes him too.

You need to find a way to forgive yourself and move on.

Does your husband still have a lot of guilt for his affairs?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> I don't mean to continue dwelling on this, but I don't get how he could blame you for being raped.
> 
> And I hope I'm not too out-of-line in asking this, but who was it that raped you? It wasn't OM, was it?


I agree, I'm unimpressed by the character of a guy who uses a rape as a reason to justify fvcking someone else. Not a very good guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> I don't mean to continue dwelling on this, but I don't get how he could blame you for being raped.
> 
> And I hope I'm not too out-of-line in asking this, but who was it that raped you? It wasn't OM, was it?


because I was at a hotel conference in a room and I let someone (an acquaintance) in my room. 
It wasn't OM.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> If this is about you punishing yourself, it's time to let it go. By continuing to punish yourself, you are making your life about the affair... and in some ways this punishes him too.
> 
> You need to find a way to forgive yourself and move on.
> 
> Does your husband still have a lot of guilt for his affairs?


I was on another board and they are just raking me over the coals for not forgiving and moving on, being I started all of it. One of my issues is that I might want to leave town to get away from having to see both OW.. hubby doens't want to do that... he loves his job. So, they think being I started it all, I should just accept this. And it goes against my sense of justice, especially considering I saw him on top of one of them.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> I agree, I'm unimpressed by the character of a guy who uses a rape as a reason to justify fvcking someone else. Not a very good guy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


me too. But he was so very angry with me and didn't know how to handle his pain...


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

intheory said:


> So he handled the pain (of you being raped), by having (another) affair?


I think he jumbled it up with me having an affair as well.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

stephscarlett said:


> because I was at a hotel conference in a room and I let someone (an acquaintance) in my room.
> It wasn't OM.


Hmm... I can see him being upset about that aspect of it. He may have even thought you were lying about it being rape.

Or maybe he thought that you'd intended for something to happen (or, at the very least, were hoping it would) and the POS turned out to be much more forceful than you'd have liked, and you cried rape after the fact.

Sorry, I don't mean to fixate on any of this. In truth, I don't like talking about it at all. Just trying to offer a glimpse into what might have been your husband's thought process at the time.

Still, I can't see using any of that to rationalize an affair.

And I hope, BTW, that your rapist is behind bars where he belongs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Hmm... I can see him being upset about that aspect of it. He may have even thought you were lying about it being rape.
> 
> Or maybe he thought that you'd intended for something to happen (or, at the very least, were hoping it would) and the POS turned out to be much more forceful than you'd have liked, and you cried rape after the fact.
> 
> ...


yes he was upset about that aspect but he has never doubted my story... and I told the truth... I don't want to talk about it anymore either... 
the question is pain and how one copes with it. I would like to forgive myself and move forward. 
We talked last night and he has forgiven himself, which I am happy about..
I would like to move forward but I cannot help but feeling like a doormat sometimes for staying with him after he did all this acting out. He's a good guy. It would not be better on the other side divorced.
But we BOTH would like to be happier... We BOTH want a different past. It has NOT made our marriage any better because it wasn't that bad before.
I guess it's proved we really love each other. Maybe I should look at it that way...


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

intheory said:


> Steph,
> 
> Did you get counseling, a rape kit and so forth done after the incident? Did you go forth with pressing charges?
> 
> ...


yes on counseling. A lot of it. No on rape kit. Tried to get the DA to press charges twice but they said it would be a he said she said thing. 
Considered filing a civil suit (consulted lawyer) but our MC said that would be disastrous for us... considering I was getting treatment from PTSD from his very close together affairs and rape. I was hanging by a thread and that would have pushed me over the edge mentally. 
I feel we did all we could with the rape. I feel we have done I guess the best we could with the affairs. We really love each other. The sadness is overwhelming, at times. Other times, we really really enjoy each other and are moving forward. We bought a vacation place we really like to get away too... has been a lifesaver for us.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP- sorry for your struggles. Unfortunately, none of us can change our past no matter hw much we would like to.

I am shocked at the way the police handled your rape. Hopefully you were seen in a hospital and checked out. It is disgusting to think that a predator got away with that. While I understand the desire to move past issues like this, the fact that your rapist got away without any recourse must make that more challenging. Is that part of the issue you are having? If yes, and you went the route of the police and explored a civil suit- then you did your due diligence. You cannot hold your happiness hostage on things that are outside of your control.

Learn from the past, sounds like you and your H have made strides forward in the past 4 years. If continuing the marriage is your goal, and it seems to be what you want, then continue with IC and when the negative thoughts start o come try focusing on some of the progress you have made. That may sound wierd, but it helped me. In fact, I didn't sit around waiting to feel bad to think of some of the positive changes in my life. I've made a habit of carving out a few minutes each day to revieiw progress in my life.

Best wishes
WD


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

workindad said:


> try focusing on some of the progress you have made. That may sound wierd, but it helped me. In fact, I didn't sit around waiting to feel bad to think of some of the positive changes in my life. I've made a habit of carving out a few minutes each day to revieiw progress in my life.
> 
> Best wishes
> WD


I really need to do this. As I look at everything that happened, I can't believe we're still together. The affairs hurt me much more than the rape did....


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> me too. But he was so very angry with me and didn't know how to handle his pain...


Do you really want to be married to someone who blamed you for a rape and deals with his pain by fvcking someone else?

You have a guy that instead of comforting and being there for you paid you back for your rape by getting his.

That says a lot about how selfish he is.

What happens the next time he's in pain?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Do you really want to be married to someone who blamed you for a rape and deals with his pain by fvcking someone else?
> 
> 
> What happens the next time he's in pain?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


he had to demonstrate through actions and communicating with me what he would do before I stayed with him... and I left him for a while. 
I believe he did it out of frustration from not being there to protect me and also my affair...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> he had to demonstrate through actions and communicating with me what he would do before I stayed with him... and I left him for a while.
> I believe he did it out of frustration from not being there to protect me and also my affair...


Well it sounds like you're working on it, but it makes no sense that he deals with not being able to protect you by fvcking some else. That's consistent with someone who secretly thinks you brought the rape on yourself and is paying you back for it. 

He'd already paid you back for your affair. 

Sorry, he just doesn't sound like someone I'd feel safe with. 

I hope it works out for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

It seems like the police didn't buy the rape story. I could understand why your husband might question it especially after you already having betrayed him. Did your employer fire the other man?

What was the nature of your affair as opposed to your husbands? Were these short affairs, ONS, or intense affairs with thoughts of leaving the marriage? How long have you been married? Are there kids?

You've come to probably the best place to get free guidance, advise, and moral support. We have seen practically all of it. To successfully R take both parties forgiving and putting forth effort to renew the marriage. It can't be done by one person doing the heavy lifting. while the other remains bitter.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jsmart said:


> It seems like the police didn't buy the rape story. I could understand why your husband might question it especially after you already having betrayed him. Did your employer fire the other man?
> 
> What was the nature of your affair as opposed to your husbands? Were these short affairs, ONS, or intense affairs with thoughts of leaving the marriage? How long have you been married? Are there kids?
> 
> You've come to probably the best place to get free guidance, advise, and moral support. We have seen practically all of it. To successfully R take both parties forgiving and putting forth effort to renew the marriage. It can't be done by one person doing the heavy lifting. while the other remains bitter.


my employer? my AP co-worker left the job and I had only seen the rapist at this conference. It was my husband who encouraged me to call the police so I'm pretty sure he believes my story.. but I'm done talking about the rape.

these were short affairs - weeks. neither of us thought of leaving, although I did think if I was having an affair I must be very unhappy in my marriage? His affairs, I'm sure, were because I emascualted him and he didn't know how to handle his pain. And a little anger and revenge thrown in. I DO wish he would have confessed. That has been difficult for me. 
we've been married 28 years. 4 grown children.

thank you everyone, for weighing in...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

stephscarlett,

As sad as it is, it's not unusual for a woman being raped to destroy her marriage. Your husband's response is not unusual at all. Men often feel that their wife being raped is an assault on their masculinity. So, while your husband's reaction seems weird and down right stupid.. it's not unusual.

The way you feel now about being a doormat, that's how your husband felt about your affair and why he went on to have that first affair. When my husband cheated, that's exactly how I felt for staying. I had thoughts that plagued me that if I cheated it would cure a lot of my pain and humiliation. Intellectually I knew that the thoughts made no sense. But there they were. I had little control over those thoughts for a long time. I did of course have control over my actions and so did not cheat.

On the one hand, you did start this affair train. But on the other hand each of you is responsible for your own actions. Both sides are right in what they say. But what's wrong in what some say is that you do not have to forgive his simply based on the fact that you had an affair first... why? Because you did not force him to do what he did.

Do you think that your husband truly understands the level at which he hurt you with his affairs? I'm getting the impression that one of the major reasons that he does not want to move to get away from the OWen is that he thinks you kind of deserved what he did. So you deserve to have to run into the women from time to time. It's payback.

If you are going to stay with him, you need to come to terms with the fact that he will never see the full magnitude of what he did. A lot of people are never remorseful for cheating. They feel that they cheated for a reason and are therefore justified.

You are at, it think, a crossroads here. I gather that you are tired of the guilt and the hurt. You want to get as far away from the past as you can. I don't blame you. Most people do when things like this happen. If this is what you need, you are going to have to figure out how you are going to move on. And since you want to remain married, you need to figure out how to do with a husband who thinks he's justified.

I would suggest that you stop talking about the affairs with people who think that you started this so you have no room to complain.

You could spend as much time as possible at your vacation home. 

You could avoid the OWen at all costs, or lean to ignore them like they are not there.

One thing that I find helps me is to write in a stream of consciousness about something that bothers me until I get it all out. At some point it seems to work on my subconscious and purges the issue completely. It's the light switch is just turned off. Works wonders. I don't know if that would work for you.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> stephscarlett,
> 
> As sad as it is, it's not unusual for a woman being raped to destroy her marriage. Your husband's response is not unusual at all. Men often feel that their wife being raped is an assault on their masculinity. So, while your husband's reaction seems weird and down right stupid.. it's not unusual.
> 
> ...


thank you for this advice. I agree with it.
How could he NOT KNOW how much it hurt when I hurt him the very same way? 
Payback for not moving? if that is the case then I'm still being punished and I think I've paid enough for it. 
He would resent it if I pushed a move because he has suffered enough as well. So you can see this awful crossroads we are at.
However, your advice is sound. and the only thing I can do if I want to remain married.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Wow, 28 years and 4 kids is quite a history. Your husband had a revenge affair to try to forget and get even but it doesn't work that way. I'm sure with your long history together, he never would have thought you would betray him and he has not recovered. Men rarely give their hearts to the other woman. 

He probably has a daily internal fight of divorcing and fighting through the pain. As much as he must be disgusted by the betrayal, all those memories makes it hard for him to leave. You're the mother of his 4 kids. Even though they're grown, keeping the marriage means your still a family. No woman can offer him that. 

I really hope that you both can work through this. You say you don't want to discuss the rape and that you think your husband believes you. I can respect that. But just want say that he may be telling you and others that he believes it as a face saving mechanism because of the thought of a double betrayal is to much to forgive and still keep his own sense of masculinity, but inside or subconsciously, he's doesn't believe it. Which would explain his 2nd affair. You have to watch their actions not their words.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jsmart said:


> Wow, 28 years and 4 kids is quite a history. Your husband had a revenge affair to try to forget and get even but it doesn't work that way. I'm sure with your long history together, he never would have thought you would betray him and he has not recovered. Men rarely give their hearts to the other woman.
> 
> He probably has a daily internal fight of divorcing and fighting through the pain. As much as he must be disgusted by the betrayal, all those memories makes it hard for him to leave. You're the mother of his 4 kids. Even though they're grown, keeping the marriage means your still a family. No woman can offer him that.
> 
> I really hope that you both can work through this. You say you don't want to discuss the rape and that you think your husband believes you. I can respect that. But just want say that he may be telling you and others that he believes it as a face saving mechanism because of the thought of a double betrayal is to much to forgive and still keep his own sense of masculinity, but inside or subconsciously, he's doesn't believe it. Which would explain his 2nd affair. You have to watch their actions not their words.


I completely understand that he is likely still in pain. We talked about this last night - how we want to be happier, that we wish it hadn't happened and that we are grateful for what we do have. 
It has been 3.5 years since his 2nd affair and he's done a lot of soul searching and therapy since then. He says he's made his choice and he wants to be married to me, he loves me and is in love with me. 

If he feels otherwise I wish he'd let me know. For both our sakes. 
I can tell you for sure I've had these same thoughts - good thing you make a ton of money, have a big d!ck and are the father of my children because otherwise, I'm gone. although, I haven't had those thoughts lately.... it's more about the hard work we've both done since and how compassionate and kind we are to one another now that makes me stay.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> I completely understand that he is likely still in pain. We talked about this last night - how we want to be happier, that we wish it hadn't happened and that we are grateful for what we do have.
> It has been 3.5 years since his 2nd affair and he's done a lot of soul searching and therapy since then. He says he's made his choice and he wants to be married to me, he loves me and is in love with me.
> 
> If he feels otherwise I wish he'd let me know. For both our sakes.
> I can tell you for sure I've had these same thoughts - *good thing you make a ton of money, have a big d!ck and are the father of my children because otherwise, I'm gone*. although, I haven't had those thoughts lately.... it's more about the hard work we've both done since and how compassionate and kind we are to one another now that makes me stay.


That's funny. But I seriously hope that the 3rd reason is more important than the 1st. 

If he's putting forth the effort to resuscitate the marriage and you match his efforts, this can work. 28 years and 4 kids that will eventually bring grand kids should inspire you both to make it work. It will be so much better experiencing that stage of life together than alone or with someone who's not going to care as much you 2 would.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jsmart said:


> That's funny. But I seriously hope that the 3rd reason is more important than the 1st.


oh yes, and I can support myself too.


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## Kobold (Dec 5, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> I had an affair. Hubby had two affairs after mine. Aren't we both responsible for our own affairs? Do we both get to act out pain til kingdom come?
> 
> we are not fighting about this.. but I'd really like to forgive myself. I DO need to know what I'm forgiving myself for... my affair was 6 years ago.


It sounds like you blame yourself for his affairs. From what I've seen this is a fairly common issue for people who are on the receiving end of a "revenge" affair/s. What was your marriage like pre affair? While I don't think it's entirely logical nor completely morally sound(given that we are each responsible for our own behavior) I could see me blaming myself if I were in your shoes, especially if the marriage was pretty good pre affair, I'd probably be stuck in a "If only I hadn't done that, everything would be different." loop, but that's how my brain tends to work anyways.


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

I think that regardless of what the OP's husband has been saying, deep down, he doesn't believe that she was actually raped that night. I have to admit that I am struggling with it myself. 

A married, professional woman in her 40-s allows a male acquaintance into her hotel room at night at work conference? Why? And then, after allegedly being rape by him, she does absolutely nothing about it for some time until her husband basically demands that she reports it to police? 

I'm not claiming that I know what happened that night but I would have a very hard time believing the OP if I were her husband.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I cannot BELIEVE I have to defend myself here. There's a reason i opened the door- and I'm not going into it here. we called a few days later. He says he believes me. Case closed. I will not discuss it anymore here again. Jesus.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

StephScarlet,

In the case of your first OM what has the downside for him been, has he been exposed to his wife, family and work. Has your H confronted him? There is a great injustice in that OMs often walk away unscarred while the H deals with the aftermath. 

In the case of your rapist while the police are not willing to do anything, have you at least exposed him to his wife, family and professionally. I believe from what you wrote you know his identity?

Tamat


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Our marriage was fairly good.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

TAMAT said:


> StephScarlet,
> 
> In the case of your first OM what has the downside for him been, has he been exposed to his wife, family and work. Has your H confronted him? There is a great injustice in that OMs often walk away unscarred while the H deals with the aftermath.
> 
> ...


AP Exposed to wife and family, left job, husband told new employer, he threatened him several times.. I suspect he ran him out of town... 

Rapist exposed to wife and hubby threatened to kill him.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Stephscarlett,

OK, so what is it your H wants as just compensation for what you did? Could be as simple as the sexual details. 

Same question except what do you want? I would guess the major thing you need is to get away from the OWs.

Tamat


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Yeah that's what I want. 
He doesnt want to talk about it anymore. He just wants to move forward. He wants us to be happy. 
He doesn't want anything like sexual details...


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

What could be just compensation? He found out having RA don't take away the pain of being a BS..


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
My advice: you have 3 viable options:

1). Both agree to forgive and forget. Mistakes were make, you agree not to make them again. Only do this if you honestly think you won't be tempted again. Usually if someone cheats, when the same situation repeats, they will do it again. 

2). Agree on an open marriage. If you both want to sleep with people outside of the marriage, then why not do so honestly?

3) Divorce. 

What I would strongly advise against is staying married while you feel bitterness, mistrust, and / or guilt. That doesn't do anyone any good.








stephscarlett said:


> I had an affair. Hubby had two affairs after mine. Aren't we both responsible for our own affairs? Do we both get to act out pain til kingdom come?
> 
> we are not fighting about this.. but I'd really like to forgive myself. I DO need to know what I'm forgiving myself for... my affair was 6 years ago.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

OP, why did you have an A in the first place that started this whole episode? If your H makes a ton of money, has a big unit, and is a great father of your 4 kids, why the need to cheat?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> My advice: you have 3 viable options:
> 
> 1). Both agree to forgive and forget. Mistakes were make, you agree not to make them again. Only do this if you honestly think you won't be tempted again. Usually if someone cheats, when the same situation repeats, they will do it again.
> ...


we have both forgiven... we don't want to divorce. We dont' have any serious trust issues. I have a triggering issue and am kind of stuck in wondering if I caused it all.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> OP, why did you have an A in the first place that started this whole episode? If your H makes a ton of money, has a big unit, and is a great father of your 4 kids, why the need to cheat?


We had a very child centered marriage, and had no time for each other. I wasn't helped a lot with the kids, he worked long hours, when he came home he sat there and ate for 3 hours. I was getting older and wanted validation. It comes down to me needing to be validated... Those are all excuses. Heck, if I would have said, "I need more connection here" he would have done it. or at least tried. I didn't give him a chance and I take full responsbility for that. I let him know my feelings in the most destructive, hurtful way possible.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

stephscarlett said:


> we have both forgiven... we don't want to divorce. We dont' have any serious trust issues. I have a triggering issue and am kind of stuck in wondering if I caused it all.


If you guys don't want to divorce, then don't. It sounds like you have both put work and effort into R.

I don't know of any way to forget.

For me, "putting it to bed" meant acceptance, learning, and actionable steps to improve my life. It wasn't overnight or easy. I also invest in reflection of the positive changes I have made in my life. I do that for a few minutes daily and find it helps me. However, it is kind of like exercising- you won't get in shape from one walk around the block. I had to commit to a positive process and keep at it. The change was slow but significant over time.

Elle had a good suggestion as well a few replies back. 

Best of luck OP.

WD


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

I think what you both did was wrong and you have a lot of understanding for your husband! I don't know how or why you do it but I would have hit the road running ages ago!


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi. First of all, I am very sorry that both of you had endured such horrible things, especially being raped! I also am negatively surprised by some of the posters here attacking you and putting you on the defense instead of focusing on helping you.

If I may, I would like to suggest you two google "How to help your spouse heal from your affair linda macdonald pdf", it's a great book available online for free that might help both of you tremendously. Have you perhaps already read it before? Another good book on this topic is "Not just friends", I would recommend checking it out in the library.

How has your sex life been? Are you both satisfied?

Have you two worked on improving the communication between you two? Maybe considered going to a Retrouvaille getaway?

What was his and your childhoods like? Have you two, in the course of counselling, identified FOO issues that might be negatively affecting your marriage?

Have you read up on recognizing each other's emotional needs? I'd recommend reading "5 languages of love".

Lastly, have you two considered doing some sort of EMDR therapy or some other therapy to help you address the fallout from all these traumatic events?

Best wishes!


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

HobbesTheTiger said:


> Hi. First of all, I am very sorry that both of you had endured such horrible things, especially being raped! I also am negatively surprised by some of the posters here attacking you and putting you on the defense instead of focusing on helping you.
> 
> If I may, I would like to suggest you two google "How to help your spouse heal from your affair linda macdonald pdf", it's a great book available online for free that might help both of you tremendously. Have you perhaps already read it before? Another good book on this topic is "Not just friends", I would recommend checking it out in the library.
> 
> ...


hey there!
yes I've read both books - and he's read How to help your spouse heal...
sex life good. communication ok.. he will not devote any more time to our recovery from this... and Retrouvaille is a weekend. he's given enough time to it.
I had a good childhood until Dad left Mom for OW... then kind of awful. His parents stayed married but 7 kids and very poor, athough a good upbringing... his mom is an OCD hoarder.
My ICs seem to not want to talk about childhood issues, which is frustrating for me...I've read Journey from Abandonment to Healing... didn't really get much out of it. 
We read FLL and we know each other's however, I feel, in crisis, LL are pretty worthless.. 
I have had EMDR therapy for dealiing with catching him red handed with OW2. 
thanks!!


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## Soveryalone (Jul 19, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I had an affair. Hubby had two affairs after mine. Aren't we both responsible for our own affairs? Do we both get to act out pain til kingdom come?
> 
> we are not fighting about this.. but I'd really like to forgive myself. I DO need to know what I'm forgiving myself for... my affair was 6 years ago.


you had the affair for a reason only you know exactly why you did, he had his two for payback, or other reasons , if you aren't fighting about it, just let it go , forgive yourself and he needs to forgive himself , but most importantly you both need to forgive one another and look forward to an open minded, honest and FUN marriage , i think being open minded, honest and fun will greatly reduce the chances of infidelity in your marriage , but those are just my thoughts 
when i say open minded , i think i meant realistic, realistically married people are going to notice other people, find them attractive from time to time. Sometimes married people fall in love with others , and then sometimes after that (often) they end up having a full blown physical affair. I wish people were more realistic about these things , i feel like there would be a lot less pain on websites like TAM...


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Stephscarlett,

You wrote, *What could be just compensation? He found out having RA don't take away the pain of being a BS.*

Whatever your H needs you to do to make him feel safe in the relationship, not an exhaustive list, but this could be something like...

() not getting close to men physically, perhaps you don't realize you are doing this, my W does not.
() making your communication channels open to him without protesting. 
() Honesty sometime brutal honesty, perhaps your H does not feel he can trust that he has the full truth from you.

In my case Honesty about what happened with OM, full sexual details, would help me decided to divorce or fully commit.

I agree that revenge affairs are never just compensation one affair does not clean the mud off the previous affair.

Tamat


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

He has never asked for any of this. But if he did I would do it. I doubt he wants sexual details. He doesn't like talking about anything having to do with my affair. 
I maintain strict boundaries around men.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Stephscarlett,

You wrote, *He doesn't like talking about anything having to do with my affair. *

Not always good, men have a tendency to hold things inside and the wound never heals except externally.

Tamat


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

That is his battle to fight then. I don't know what else I can do..


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