# Is our marriage too far gone?



## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Is our marriage too far gone?

I feel like our marriage issues are so stacked up against us, I'm losing hope.
Background: married in 1999. We have five kids ages 23 to 8. Oldest is from a previous relationship. We were separated from 2010 to 2014 because we were toxic. He works a regular job M-F and I was laid off in January of this year. I have a lot of hurt from the past that I've been in IC for but I don't think it's been effective. I've asked him to go get anger mgmt help but he's chosen to be on meds instead. I'm overly sensitive and get hurt easily. He's detached and sees life very black and white. We both grew up in dysfunction. He's an adult child of an alcoholic and my mom was a narcissist. These traits come into play in our marriage most every time we discuss anything.

We have no sex life, no financial goals, no short term or long term goals, no team playing, no intimacy. I have pleaded, begged, and cried over these things I feel are lacking. Now, I know I have to find my own happiness but all ( except for sex) of these issues have been talked about and talked about and either he gets angry and I react or it gets shoved under the carpet.

I guess it's a loveless, sexless marriage and I'm worried we're only in it for the kids. I lack self respect and self
Confidence and I'm certain they affect how we interact. I'm looking for any insight, opinions, advice that anyone would like to give. Thanks


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

It takes two to M and two wanting to save it. One can't do it alone. I know this has to be frustrating.

I would recommend sitting him down and putting every card on the table, things you want and ask 

him the same. Tell him if he does not want to work on this M, you will be seeking out an attorney 

and filing for D. If a spouse doesn't care anymore, why should destroy yourself fighting for it alone? 

What led to the 2010 separation?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

freckles18 said:


> I guess it's a loveless, sexless marriage and I'm worried we're only in it for the kids.


The majority of bad relationships are pretty much only held together by this. The sad thing is you aren't doing the kids any favors.



freckles18 said:


> I lack self respect and self confidence and I'm certain they affect how we interact.


The fact that you can admit this shows remarkable clairvoyance and means you are already halfway there. 



freckles18 said:


> I'm looking for any insight, opinions, advice that anyone would like to give. Thanks


Now, work on improving your internal issues. You can't fix him so work hard to fix YOURSELF. Once you do, he will no longer be in the picture.

Good Luck.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You were separated for FOUR years. You continue to be miserable. Its ok to end this, you have put in serious effort it seems and tried to reconcile. Why stay in so much unhappiness, your kids know this stuff.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Sounds like this is more like a poll for votes rather than advice.

Having read your old threads, including a 4 year long separation and constant misery with no possibility in sight of things getting better, my vote is for Hilary. I mean my vote is for your marriage being too far gone.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Votes for what? I should maybe go back and read what I wrote so many years ago. I haven't been on this site in a really long time. Yes, I was miserable back then but in doing the work on myself back then and currently, I've come to realize a lot about myself. I've made major changes and so has he. When does one stop hoping that things can and will change for the sake of the family? What does a person do when they still love their spouse and when they don't want to become another divorce stat? Also, I can't bear to put my kids through another separation. I've made a lot of mistakes and I don't want this to be another mistake if I decide the misery just isn't worth it anymore.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> It takes two to M and two wanting to save it. One can't do it alone. I know this has to be frustrating.
> 
> I would recommend sitting him down and putting every card on the table, things you want and ask
> 
> ...


Mostly it was our anger issues that led to our separation. I think I've put every card on the table in the last two years and I've told him my needs multiple times. I've asked him what he needs. He says he doesn't know.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

3Xnocharm said:


> You were separated for FOUR years. You continue to be miserable. Its ok to end this, you have put in serious effort it seems and tried to reconcile. Why stay in so much unhappiness, your kids know this stuff.


I have not always been miserable. We have had a lot of good times as we really enjoy each others' company. There is so much more that makes a marriage than good times, though. I'm not sure if my expectations of this marriage are on track with what is realistic. I feel they are but I also feel like I'm being offered scraps and that's why I think I lack self respect and confidence.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

BetrayedDad said:


> The majority of bad relationships are pretty much only held together by this. The sad thing is you aren't doing the kids any favors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

freckles18 said:


> Mostly it was our anger issues that led to our separation. I think I've put every card on the table in the last two years and I've told him my needs multiple times. I've asked him what he needs. He says he doesn't know.


Then he should attempt to figure those out during the D. How long is a D in your state?

If it is one where it is a year, go ahead and file. You can stop the D at any time, even the day of.

Maybe things have to "get real" for him to force him to make a choice.

But you waiting in limbo.... how's that worked out for you the last four years? 

You should love yourself enough to want to exit this toxicity.

How are the children holding up?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

freckles18 said:


> I have not always been miserable. We have had a lot of good times as we really enjoy each others' company. There is so much more that makes a marriage than good times, though. I'm not sure if my expectations of this marriage are on track with what is realistic. I feel they are but I *also feel like I'm being offered scraps* and that's why I think I lack self respect and confidence.


He will continue to do this until you put a stop to it. You have allowed him to treat you this way.

Let's put an end to that.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I divorced after 8 years of hell, 0 sex for last 4 years, and no love.  The last 10 months of being divorced is the best time of my life! I only have two kids (both under 6yrs), but so far everything is going great. 

Just do it. Don't live with regret 8 years from now when you finally decide to throw in the towel after your prime years are over. Fawk that!


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

freckles18 said:


> Votes for what?


Votes for whether your marriage is too far gone.

My vote was yes, your marriage is too far gone.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> Then he should attempt to figure those out during the D. How long is a D in your state?
> 
> If it is one where it is a year, go ahead and file. You can stop the D at any time, even the day of.
> 
> ...


I'm in Canada so we have no fault divorce and we have to be separated for a year minimum before filing. Because anger isn't a part of our daily lives any longer, I'm in a good place in that my days are filled with parenting, home projects, and volunteer work. I've been told keeping busy will help me from obsessing about our issues, which it has. You're right though, being in limbo has not worked out very well for me emotionally.
The children were happy when he moved back although my one daughter, 16 now, has felt a lot of mixed emotions about him being back. She is extremely hurt over his leaving in 2010 and felt abandoned by him. She really doesn't like him much. I feel put in the middle trying to help her go through her feelings about him, but I would never turn a deaf ear to my daughter. Finally, after two years of begging him, he finally set up a therapist app't for her and him. That was last night. My son who is almost 14 had a lot of anger after my husband left and I feel like he has buried his feelings just to get by. I don't know how to help him and I haven't received much support from my husband. The two young girls are thriving.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> He will continue to do this until you put a stop to it. You have allowed him to treat you this way.
> 
> Let's put an end to that.


Yeah, I certainly allowed him to treat me that way because his anger frightened me and I didn't want the kids to live in that environment. I have since become more assertive and I stand up for myself more often, although I still don't feel 100% deserving of respect (otherwise, I would demand to be treated well 100% of the time).....this most likely has a lot to do with how I was raised.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

freckles18 said:


> Yeah, I certainly allowed him to treat me that way because his anger frightened me and I didn't want the kids to live in that environment. I have since become more assertive and I stand up for myself more often, although I still don't feel 100% deserving of respect (otherwise, I would demand to be treated well 100% of the time).....this most likely has a lot to do with how I was raised.


None of what you just wrote there matters because although it may make you feel better and give you reason and some sort of justification, it doesn't resolve the problem. Blaming your parents only gets you so far. Actually it doesn't get you anywhere. 

If you marriage has any chance, things have to change, and hint- the change isn't going to come from him, at least not at first.

So you can either go on and on about how you occasionally stand up for yourself despite not feeling like you deserve any respect due to your upbringing and fear of him, or you can say "Screw the past and my issues and my fear, I'm not going to take his crap anymore and I'm going to put up a stand and do everything I can to fix things".


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

caruso said:


> None of what you just wrote there matters because although it may make you feel better and give you reason and some sort of justification, it doesn't resolve the problem. Blaming your parents only gets you so far. Actually it doesn't get you anywhere.
> 
> If you marriage has any chance, things have to change, and hint- the change isn't going to come from him, at least not at first.
> 
> So you can either go on and on about how you occasionally stand up for yourself despite not feeling like you deserve any respect due to your upbringing and fear of him, or you can say "Screw the past and my issues and my fear, I'm not going to take his crap anymore and I'm going to put up a stand and do everything I can to fix things".


You're so right....blaming my parents doesn't help in the least. I have done that a lot and it only makes me feel bad. The point I've gotten to now is less blame and more seeking to understand how the way I was treated as a child affects how I have treated others and how I treat myself (self-condemnation and unworthiness). Those traits stay with a person for a very long time. These issues of mine seem to always be in the forefront of all that I do because I'm breaking the cycle by making sure my kids aren't treated the same way that I was. Eventually, it will be nice to just say, Screw those issues of mine! Hope that makes sense. Thanks for your insight.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

F18.... how bad was your Hs childhood / family dynamics?


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> F18.... how bad was your Hs childhood / family dynamics?


I was to blame for everything. I was the classic example of a scapegoat child of a narcissist. My older sister was the golden child. The dynamics still carry on to this day. Sadly, my sister and I don't speak any longer. We're both in a lot of pain.
Also, I was sexually abused by a cousin on more than one occasion. My parents knew and sent me to one counselling appointment and that was it. It was to never be spoken about again.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> F18.... how bad was your Hs childhood / family dynamics?


I read that too fast and thought you asked about mine. 
His was dysfunctional as well. Parents split when he was young. Step dad was an raging alcoholic. His mom was an enabler. He had no male role model in his life. His older sister moved out when he was young.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> F18.... how bad was your *husbands* childhood / family dynamics?


I should have used the entire word.....


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

freckles18 said:


> I read that too fast and thought you asked about mine.
> His was dysfunctional as well. Parents split when he was young. Step dad was an raging alcoholic. His mom was an enabler. He had no male role model in his life. His older sister moved out when he was young.


He took on his step dads job of drinking to hide his emotions. You became his mother by enabling.

But that's over now. He has to get help or he will drag you down with him.

The example he is setting for the children is extremely unhealthy.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Chuck71, that makes so much sense. Thank you.

He did attend support group meetings for adult child of alcoholics while we were separated. Now, he feels like he only needs to consult his handbook when the need arises. I would like him to get individual counselling as well but he doesn't seem to want to go.
I worry so much about my kids' emotional wellbeing.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Children learn what a romantic relationship is supposed to be by watching their parents interact. Your marriage is loveless and sexless. Is that really the example of a romantic partnership you want them to emulate?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

freckles18 said:


> Chuck71, that makes so much sense. Thank you.
> 
> He did attend support group meetings for adult child of alcoholics while we were separated. Now, he feels like he only needs to consult his handbook when the need arises. I would like him to get individual counselling as well but he doesn't seem to want to go.
> I worry so much about my kids' emotional wellbeing.


He needs to hit the AA. He admitted his stepdad was an alcoholic... yet he won't admit he is.

He feels the reason he is, is because his stepfather was. That's his excuse.

He needs detox.... IC will not work, after the sessions he can go home and drink and point fingers 

at others. Facing the booze first.... then.... IC. Then repairing relations with the children.

Then..... you and him. It's obvious you love this guy, at one time, he gave you butterflies every day.

If you want that man back.... the only way is to file for D....... tell him what you want. 

The rest is all up to him. I wouldn't wish this situation you are in on my worst enemy.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> freckles18 said:
> 
> 
> > Chuck71, that makes so much sense. Thank you.
> ...


Are you saying he's an alcoholic because his step dad was/is? He's not literally an alcoholic though..sorry if I wasn't clear somewhere in my posts. I can see though that the same traits would trickle down through exposure to alcoholism during his upbringing.


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

MJJEAN said:


> Children learn what a romantic relationship is supposed to be by watching their parents interact. Your marriage is loveless and sexless. Is that really the example of a romantic partnership you want them to emulate?


No, not at all. I wish for my kids to be as emotionally healthy as possible so that they can have healthy relationships when they're older


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

freckles18 said:


> Are you saying he's an alcoholic because his step dad was/is? He's not literally an alcoholic though..sorry if I wasn't clear somewhere in my posts. I can see though that the same traits would trickle down through exposure to alcoholism during his upbringing.


Ask him to stop completely on 10/21/2016.... for the family.

Then you will get your answer


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> freckles18 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying he's an alcoholic because his step dad was/is? He's not literally an alcoholic though..sorry if I wasn't clear somewhere in my posts. I can see though that the same traits would trickle down through exposure to alcoholism during his upbringing.
> ...


I'm not sure I follow...what would I ask him to stop doing?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Ask him to stop completely on 10/21/2016.... for the family.
> 
> Then you will get your answer


 @Chuck71 I think it might be a mistake to presume that her husband is an alcoholic.
@freckles18 is your husband an alcoholic or not?


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> Chuck71 said:
> 
> 
> > Ask him to stop completely on 10/21/2016.... for the family.
> ...


No he isn't an alcoholic. I'm not sure why Chuck71 thinks he is. He was raised in an alcoholic home and has brought those traits into our marriage. Thanks for asking


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

...


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## freckles18 (Sep 4, 2010)

I've had a few days to think about our future. The tension has been higher than normal. He said last night he hasn't felt any tension yet complained that I've been dismissive and cold, etc etc. 

In our convo, he said that he's started listening to the audiobook, 7 habits of a happy marriage, and I got all excited thinking we could discuss what he's heard from it so far. 

So I said, oh what have you heard so far? He replied, I can't answer that. Oh, how come?, I asked. He replied, I just can't. I said, do you remember what you heard? He replied, no I don't recall anything that I've heard. (He said that's he's listened to an hour and a half of the eight hour book) I said, please try. He said I can't...

I am so disappointed that this was the outcome. I feel like he lied about having started the audiobook. If that's the case, why would he do that? He said before dropping the topic that his plan was to listen to the whole thing and then approach me. To me, that's another empty promise...if he can't recall one hour of material, how on earth can he recall eight hours? 
I'm just so lost.


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