# I want to talk but my words seem to push her away!



## Texas Tim (1 mo ago)

I am new to this forum. After reading some other posts my situation seems insignificant, and yet for me it is a problem that I wrestle with daily.
The problem. My wife and I are on opposite sides of the sexual needs spectrum. As a male I want to be desired and would like more sex with her physically, verbally, emotionally.
My wife says she is tired or doesn’t have the sex drive that I have and doesn’t want to discuss sex.
I struggle daily with thoughts and feelings of rejection and inadequacy on one hand. At the same time I want to talk about it, read how to make things better, find out what her needs are and see if I can help. I am a nurse and have that innate desire to help and try and solve problem.
However, attempting to communicate with my wife seems to push her away and build a resentment. She does say she loves me and wants to work on it but it has been 15 years with no progress. This is both of our second marriages my first lasted 17 years when my ex wife told me she was gay. We divorced and she is now married to a women that was also in a hereto sexual relationship and now married as lesbians. I mention that because I lived through a dishonest relationship for 17 years, in my ex defense she was lying to herself since adolescence and so she wanted to be married as a heterosexual but realized a man would not fulfill her ultimate needs. That 80/20 curse. Some married people are 80 happy but need that 20 they are not getting in their relationship not realizing they will lose the 80 percent.
So my issue. I feel like my needs are not being meet and believe every time I mention a request for sex or need for sex, pushes her father away, and feel guilty.
Before marriage I was very open with expectations after my first wife I knew what I wanted and didn’t want. I expressed those needs to my wife and she said she didn’t have a problem with the 4 sexual things I wanted to have in this marriage. We have been married for 8 years and together for 15. 
I am 52 and she is 51
I apologize if my post is not clear or if I overshared. I am frustrated with the situation and myself any advise would be appreciated.


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## mwise003 (1 mo ago)

Can you tell us a little bit about the rest of your relationship with your wife? Is she dismissive of you in other aspects?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It's common knowledge that most men want sex way more often than most women do. Neither of you really holds the advantage here. What she wants is just as important as what you want. If you have been unhappy for a long time and are letting it erode your self-esteem, then maybe it's time to stop hanging on.


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## Texas Tim (1 mo ago)

mwise003 said:


> Can you tell us a little bit about the rest of your relationship with your wife? Is she dismissive of you in other aspects?


Our relationship is good in other areas, we are happy together, feel like we have known each other for longer than we have and yet enjoy spending time together. We are best friends when it comes to doing things together. No control issues, we both would rather spend time with each other then wife friends. She is a teacher and has dinner with teachers after school on her own so there are no controlling issues on either side of the marriage. I will admit I have trust issues in general and understand that is as a result of the first marriage of a 17year lie. However, I do not look at her phone or follow her on Facebook, I don’t have Facebook or at least don’t use it if I have one. I learned from my first marriage if they want to cheat you will never be able to find all the ways they are able to cheat. I don’t think my wife is having an affair as a reason to avoid sex. Our sex life has changed a little bit since she feels less attractive with her weight, she is no longer a size “0”. She is not obese but mentioned because of her weight size “6” she doesn’t feel as attractive. This is not an issue on my part. The sex life frequency is a 4/10 but has always been less than 5. Marriage happiness 8/10. This issue with my desire to find a solution and her resentment will drop the marriage happiness rating. I don’t know how much more time I can continue being unhappy about sex. Sexual frustration 8/10. It’s is a daily concern.


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

When you and your wife first met and engaged in sex how was it? And when did it start to change?


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## Texas Tim (1 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's common knowledge that most men want sex way more often than most women do. Neither of you really holds the advantage here. What she wants is just as important as what you want. If you have been unhappy for a long time and are letting it erode your self-esteem, then maybe it's time to stop hanging on.


I understand and agree. I struggle with the idea of letting go of a marriage because I am happy in most areas and she does say she wants to work on it but doesn’t. For us neither of us are dealing with addictions such as drugs alcohol or infidelity. So I look in the mirror and ask am I to blame? Are my desires or needs realistic. If I was to continue with this settle for sexual life because I am satisfied in other areas is that possible? What can I do to stop wanting to talk about something she doesn’t want to talk about. My mind is running around in circles. As a man at 52 I have to look at longevity and part of me thinks if we are happy with everything but sex, eventually I may run into performance issues and do a wife that doesn’t need sex is better than one that wants to have it when you are not able. So far this is not an issue but realistically 50-60-70 my sexual performance will decrease. I don’t want to cut off my nose to spite my face.
But I will ponder what you said and reflect on that because you brought up a valid point.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Try a marriage counselor.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Texas Tim said:


> What can I do to stop wanting to talk about something she doesn’t want to talk about.


How would you explain the fact that she doesn't want to *talk* about it?



D0nnivain said:


> Try a marriage counselor.


Maybe, but if doesn't want to talk about it, that may be tricky.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Would you say that you're physically fit? Not that that is _the_ reason, I'm just wondering if that could be a reason, and she doesn't want to say.

But, if we can completely rule that out, the only way to improve your sex life, is to have sex. She has to be willing to take some baby steps, and that doesn't require talking and discussing things ad nauseum...you both just have to find ways to be more intimate, and then, it should flow naturally. She has to find something that she enjoys with you sexually and build on that. There should be no forcing her to do things she doesn't want to do, but there has to be something she enjoys...and if it's not ''benefitting'' you, she can in turn, find a way to please you. The hope being that this draws you closer together in this way.

This is of course barring any unforeseen trauma that she may be holding onto and not sharing with you, that is messing up the way she views sex to begin with. But, then marriage counseling would be required. Not suggested but required.

If she doesn't want to do_ anything_ at all to improve the situation, and she assumes that you'll just have to accept a sexless marriage, then you may have to move on. There comes a point where reading about it, talking about it, etc isn't going to make it happen. If she wanted to lose weight, she'd have to do more than read and discuss it. She'd have to take baby steps to make it happen.

I don't usually chime in the sex threads all that often, but this is just my opinion, fwiw. I think there's hope, if she is willing to take baby steps towards intimacy with you.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Start by reading Married Man Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay. It is all about making yourself better and thus making you more attractive/desirable.

also check these out as well as poke around that site. Lots of good info. 









What's the best way to initiate sex? - Uncovering Intimacy


Is it better to be direct or subtle? To use words, or actions to initiate sex? To surprise them, or give them a warning ahead of time?




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Why is initiating sex so difficult? - Uncovering Intimacy


Does your spouse have trouble initiating sex? Not sure why? Here are some reasons it could be so you can understand them better.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Being more skilled at initiation - Uncovering Intimacy


Do you use skillful initiation in your marriage? Don't know? You might want to check out this post to see if you can improve how you initiate sex.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Being more skilled at rejection - Uncovering Intimacy


Want to know how to reject your spouse in a way that doesn't hurt their feelings but ensures they don't ask for sex again? Become more skilled at rejection.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com


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## mwise003 (1 mo ago)

You said your sex frequency is a 4/10, but has always been less than 5? So in some regards, she was like this when you met? Or did I miss read that?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Texas Tim said:


> I expressed those needs to my wife and she said she didn’t have a problem with the 4 sexual things I wanted to have in this marriage.



What are these 4 things you want?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Texas Tim said:


> So my issue. I feel like my needs are not being meet and believe every time I mention a request for sex or need for sex, pushes her father away, and feel guilty.
> Before marriage I was very open with expectations after my first wife I knew what I wanted and didn’t want. I expressed those needs to my wife and she said she didn’t have a problem with the 4 sexual things I wanted to have in this marriage. We have been married for 8 years and together for 15.


So she is starting to resent the fact that you expect her to meet your sexual needs THAT SHE AGREED TO DO WITH YOU....but after marriage SHE changed her mind...is that right? Has she ever been willing to talk about sex with you? Did she ever want sex with you the way you wanted, or did she always only do sexual things for you?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Texas Tim said:


> I understand and agree. I struggle with the idea of letting go of a marriage because I am happy in most areas and she does say she wants to work on it but doesn’t. For us neither of us are dealing with addictions such as drugs alcohol or infidelity. So I look in the mirror and ask am I to blame? Are my desires or needs realistic. If I was to continue with this settle for sexual life because I am satisfied in other areas is that possible? What can I do to stop wanting to talk about something she doesn’t want to talk about. My mind is running around in circles. As a man at 52 I have to look at longevity and part of me thinks if we are happy with everything but sex, eventually I may run into performance issues and do a wife that doesn’t need sex is better than one that wants to have it when you are not able. So far this is not an issue but realistically 50-60-70 my sexual performance will decrease. I don’t want to cut off my nose to spite my face.
> But I will ponder what you said and reflect on that because you brought up a valid point.


All valid thoughts. Some guys slow down and some don't. Since it's affecting your self-esteem, you might just want to talk to a psychologist about that. Not that it's abnormal, but I don't know to what extent. Maybe it would help just to understand that your self-esteem is generally formed early in life and she isn't responsible for it. You may need the validation to make you feel good, but she's not holding out just to make you feel bad. She has her own issues. If she doesn't want to talk further about it, it's likely because this isn't negotiable to her and she's tired of beating a dead horse about it. So I guess marriage counseling may not be anything she wants to do. 

Obviously, if you weren't feeling rejected, you could just take care of your own sexual needs through masturbation, but since you seem to need the validation at least as bad as the sex itself, that poses problems.

But you are right that even if you left her, there is no guarantee you would find just what you are looking for. I don't believe in trying to coerce a woman into having sex when they don't want it. And that wouldn't accomplish what you want out of it either. 

Maybe you talk to a counselor to vent and dig into the self-esteem issues. This forum is very polar on the issue. There is always more to a situation than meets the eye, so if it's something you can afford, maybe you should talk to a professional. You never know, it might even spark your wife's interest in attending.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

There was a poster on tam called MEM and he initiated something called the “MEM Clause” with his wife who refused to have sex with him. 
Basically he told her he loved her and wanted to stay married to her so he would outsource the sexual part of their relationship.
She started sex counselling with him pretty quickly!
There have also been some threads discussing this and if you use the search engine on tam you will find them.


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## mwise003 (1 mo ago)

Lila said:


> What are these 4 things you want?


Does it matter? She agreed to them... 🤷‍♀️


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

mwise003 said:


> Does it matter? She agreed to them... 🤷‍♀️



Not really. I'm just curious. 

I'm of the mind that he should divorce if he thinks he would be happier alone. There is no guarantee he'll find another woman who is interested in meeting his 4 sexual needs but at least he will be free to _try_ to find someone more sexually compatible.


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## Rooster Cogburn (10 mo ago)

Tim,

Look bro... you need to understand the internet and this forum are all subjective... which I believe you know but it needs to be stated over and over just because of the armchair psychologist on here.

So when some folks allude to the idea that you (on an individual basis) somehow need counseling because your wife has checked out sexually... you can just leave that information in the trash bin of life. That's absolute bunk. 

You are looking for ideas on how to make things better.

Honestly, there are few options at your disposal. I know you don't want to hear that but it's the truth.

You need to provide some more info though...

A.) At your respective ages... menopause is a problem for women in the sex arena. Can you confirm your wife is subject to this?

B.) What are the '4 things' you want sexually in a relationship... you mentioned this in the post... 

C.) Just what actionable items have you both 'tried' in the 15 years of your relationship? You stated that you have tried working on this aspect of your marriage but have had little traction over the years.


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## Mannyr86 (1 mo ago)

Texas Tim said:


> I am new to this forum. After reading some other posts my situation seems insignificant, and yet for me it is a problem that I wrestle with daily.
> The problem. My wife and I are on opposite sides of the sexual needs spectrum. As a male I want to be desired and would like more sex with her physically, verbally, emotionally.
> My wife says she is tired or doesn’t have the sex drive that I have and doesn’t want to discuss sex.
> I struggle daily with thoughts and feelings of rejection and inadequacy on one hand. At the same time I want to talk about it, read how to make things better, find out what her needs are and see if I can help. I am a nurse and have that innate desire to help and try and solve problem.
> ...


I'm having a similar issue with my wife, sex doesn't seem very important, if at all. We just don't do it anymore and I will say, she needs to understand that problems like this that continue to persist for very long, can make a happy marriage become unhappy. I mean let's face it, sex is important. if it's a problem with her sex drive, is there a way you guys can find that sweet spot where you get what you need and she gets what she needs at certain times of the month? I'd imagine you've probably had a similar discussion, are you able to communicate with her like this? I mean you guys have to solve that problem, these kinds of things end up being dominos effects eventually. You've been married so I don't want to preach, I just know I'm in a similar situation and my marriage is barely hanging on. I don't get any sex unless I ask tons and I mean TONS of times. I don't want that to happen to you. I wish I could bring some better help, I really resonate with this post quite a bit. I hope you guys can find that place where you can get your needs fulfilled, it may not be a perfect situation, but there has to be a spot where both of you are happy.


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## Texas Tim (1 mo ago)

Mannyr86 said:


> I'm having a similar issue with my wife, sex doesn't seem very important, if at all. We just don't do it anymore and I will say, she needs to understand that problems like this that continue to persist for very long, can make a happy marriage become unhappy. I mean let's face it, sex is important. if it's a problem with her sex drive, is there a way you guys can find that sweet spot where you get what you need and she gets what she needs at certain times of the month? I'd imagine you've probably had a similar discussion, are you able to communicate with her like this? I mean you guys have to solve that problem, these kinds of things end up being dominos effects eventually. You've been married so I don't want to preach, I just know I'm in a similar situation and my marriage is barely hanging on. I don't get any sex unless I ask tons and I mean TONS of times. I don't want that to happen to you. I wish I could bring some better help, I really resonate with this post quite a bit. I hope you guys can find that place where you can get your needs fulfilled, it may not be a perfect situation, but there has to be a spot where both of you are happy.


I have reflected and tried to speak to her today regarding the issues. I agree sex is important, but not the most important part of a marriage. Regarding sex, I explained if I bring up the subject, it feels as if she moves 3 steps away and I am left trying to talk about something from a defensive point of view. We do not yell or argue so there is no anger in the conversation. Sorry, my thoughts are all over the place. I explained I don't like bringing up sex since it is something that is obviously hard for her to talk about, and I don't want to feel rejected and at fault for bringing up the subject. I have not brought up sex and waited for her to bring up the subject, well that lasted a few months. I believe that if I did not bring up the topic, she could go the rest of her life without talking about it. She said she doesn't know why she doesn't have a sexual desire. She suggested we seek a counselor. I have mixed emotions about therapy, I have tried that with my first wife, and I understand you get what you put into it. I think I will see if she reaches out to a counselor and takes a step in that direction. That statement sounds a lot like when she says she will work on being more affectionate over the past several years.


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## Griswold (2 mo ago)

One thing you might try is look at the book by Athol Kay, The Married Man Sex Live Primer. It's a little "red pilly" but I gather he pulled a lot of his thoughts together from reading / participating on TAM. I won't say I used it to perk up our sex life so I don't want to tout it as a cure. But the main take away is - work on yourself. For reasons unrelated to the book, I started lifting weights almost two years ago. I'm not cut; the Mr. Universe pageant has not called (yet), but I'm down double digits in weight and just look a little different. Point to make though is ....my wife touches me more. I don't mean for sex necessarily. She just touches me. I honestly think the muscle mass is silently calling to her  This is a point that Kay makes in his book. Do some stuff to alter your appearance. If you are nurse (I have them in the family) I"m guessing you are roaming around in comfortable, but formless scrubs. Drop that. I once read a rule of thumb that the old money preps used to follow: Dress down when your are supposed to dress up/ dress up when you are supposed to dress down. Point i'm trying to make is...you want to start a discussion. Good idea. But perhaps prime the pump by making some subtle but noticeable changes to your appearance. Kay does not use the evolutionary psychology terms, but what you are trying to do is increase your "mate value." If you can do that even a little, you might find she will be a bit more open to a discussion. Just some thoughts. I'm rooting for you.


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## Texas Tim (1 mo ago)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Tim,
> 
> Look bro... you need to understand the internet and this forum are all subjective... which I believe you know but it needs to be stated over and over just because of the armchair psychologist on here.
> 
> ...


A. she is post-menopause; this issue has been since we were together when she was 34. 
B. We were both married before. In my first marriage, my ex-wife wanted to try bi-sexuality and then decided she was gay; I ended the marriage after trying to accommodate her needs through lifestyle adjustments. My ex-wife blamed me for not wanting oral sex from her (I was raised to think that was wrong, and women didn't like doing it). My ex didn't offer and I didn't ask. I mention this because when I looked for a new partner to marry, I didn't want to repeat mistakes. The four things sound petty, but I wanted to make sure my new partner was on the same page as me.
1. I wanted to try to learn to relax and enjoy receiving oral sex to completion.
2. I wanted to try anal sex with my partner.
3. Sex would only be between two people, her and me. NO swinger, bi-sexual, or other sex outside the marriage.
4. Important to be honest with each other, and equally yoked. Referring to sexual frequency. Some couples are monthly, weekly, and daily. 
My wife said she didn't have a problem with the four things and said she was not interested in the swinger lifestyle as she had tried it in the past. She didn't have anything on her list.
C. I have tried being understanding, when she stated she was too stressed to have sex, there was no pressure to have sex. When she was in the mood we would have sex. She would have sex 1-2 times a month. Before we got married, we went to a sex therapist to learn about anal sex. We went to the class, tried it once without success, she stated it was painful and didn't want to do it. So we moved that off the list because I don't want something that is painful or undesirable for her. We stopped talking about it. She wanted to take a lap dance class, this is her suggestion and she went by herself. After a couple of classes, she attempted 1 dance and never did it again. I was supportive, it took her awhile to try it after she went to class and said she forgot the moves. I learned she used a toy with a previous partner and so we went to the store to look around. She picked out a couple of items. No pressure. She was able to use them a few times successfully and then just stopped. She picked out various items and when I asked why she didn't use them, she said a couple of them that she choose were too big. So I threw them away and she picked out others. Again she might use them a week after buying one and then three months later might use it and then stop. I told her I was not judging her, I only wanted her to have whatever she thought might be pleasurable and want to try. 
That's where we are at. When I ask for sex I feel like I am bothering her, and asking her to do something she is not interested in. She says I can have sex with her, but she cant cum, and really is just waiting to go to sleep. I can't do that, if the person is not interested in sex, and is involved I can't perform. I never had a one-night stand and never will. I have to have an emotional, and physical attraction to someone.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I will recommend a couple things to you. The first is stop talking and stop bugging her about it. Yes yes I know we are supposed to communicate but I doubt if after 15 years you are saying anything new or anything she hasn't already heard a million times and isn't anything she doesn't already know. The reason she is recoiling away is it is just whining and nagging at this point and is an irritation and a turn off. You can't negotiate desire or nag them into being horny. It's just an annoyance and a further turn off. That's step #1. 

The next is do some research into female desire in long term relationships. A great start is articles and podcasts by Dr Samantha Rodman Whiten aka 'Dr Psych Mom.' A large part of her content and a large part of her private practice is about the effects of long term monogamy on women's spontaneous desire. In a nutshell, women's spontaneous desire drops off precipituously after a couple years in a LTR/marriage, especially if there are kids involved. It's normal, it's natural, but it does not have to be the end of one's sex life and it's not the end of the world. 

And along with that, you need to learn more about Responsive Desire. If you are not familiar with the term it is basically reacting to and responding to a sexual stimulus rather than being spontaneously horny or having a high baseline level of desire like a guy. A woman isn't just horny because she's breathing like a guy. A woman has to be stimulated and aroused before she will feel desire. You can't just ask if she wants to have sex while she's scrubbing the toilet bowl because scrubbing the toilet bowl is not a sexually arousing activity. In fact, you should probably NEVER ask if she wants to have sex, the answer will likely be no if you are not already making out and touching and massaging and feeling each other up. You'll need to learn some seduction and initiation skills. 

And you'll need to learn about menopause. Menopause will often lower a woman's baseline level of libido even more. A young fertile woman's biology will bump up her baseline level of libido during ovulation and her horny hormones that tell her mate and reproduce will fire up once a month. With menopause, that monthly hormonal booster is often shut down. A menopausal woman can still be aroused and stimulated. But again YOU will have to be the one to stimulate her and get her aroused and you definately will not be able to do that by nagging and begging and pleading.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

She is far to comfortable in your relationship, SHE had what SHE wants and has little consideration for your needs and knows you will in the end accept the situation. Her comfort has made her complacent.

My advice is to undermine her comfort level, make her think that the relationship is not as solid as she thought it was, make her concerned for the future. 

Start doing things for yourself that don't involve her such as running. Get fit, get trim, look good.

By shear accident my wife's certainties were undermined and her response was a major increase in her sex drive and far more spontaneous desire.

Good luck 🤞


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Kput said:


> She is far to comfortable in your relationship, SHE had what SHE wants and has little consideration for your needs and knows you will in the end accept the situation. Her comfort has made her complacent.
> 
> My advice is to undermine her comfort level, make her think that the relationship is not as solid as she thought it was, make her concerned for the future.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. 

Your wife is providing a pretty sub par intimate life in this marriage, and she's okay with it, because she thinks you aren't going anywhere, that you will just have to deal with it for the next few decades.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

You have to get 100% secure with yourself and your sexuality before you can get that desired feeling from your wife. You're real problem is that your wife won't talk to you about your problem in the marriage. It doesn't matter "what" the problem is, a married couple should bend over backwards to make their spouse feel whole. Maybe you can tell her that the marriage won't work if communication isn't there. See what she says and go from there. In the interim, work on yourself to be the best you can be. A lot of times when you do that, everything else falls into place.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

Asking for sex makes you look weak. A weak man is not attractive.
Talking to her about what your needs are is also unattractive. Rest assured that she knows what you want and pushing your needs isn’t going to make it magically happen. As you said, it’s more likely to push her further away.
Is your wife responsive to intimacy without your trying to have sex with her?
I might suggest that you learn how to seduce her with non-sexual touch. Show her that she is valuable to you, appreciated and attractive to you just as she is. If she will allow it, hold her, caress her in very small ways at first. Let it build a little at a time and be outcome independent about it. Take the pressure off of her and let her come to you when she is ready. Do not initiate sex. Initiate a loving, respectful, understanding and intimate relationship with her.
When you do that to the point where she trusts it and it’s not about your trying to get in her pants. She just may respond in her own time and her own way.
Again, Outcome independent!
Its not going to happen overnight and she has to trust that it’s not just a ploy to get what you want. You are kind, loving and affectionate because that is the man you are. Not because you are pushing for sex. Let her come to you because she wants to and you have seduced her in a way that allows her to want you!


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Texas Tim said:


> I am new to this forum. After reading some other posts my situation seems insignificant, and yet for me it is a problem that I wrestle with daily.
> The problem. My wife and I are on opposite sides of the sexual needs spectrum. As a male I want to be desired and would like more sex with her physically, verbally, emotionally.
> My wife says she is tired or doesn’t have the sex drive that I have and doesn’t want to discuss sex.
> I struggle daily with thoughts and feelings of rejection and inadequacy on one hand. At the same time I want to talk about it, read how to make things better, find out what her needs are and see if I can help. I am a nurse and have that innate desire to help and try and solve problem.
> ...


My man, the harsh reality is if she has no interest in fixing the issue, it will never be fixed. The LD partner seeing it as a problem and taking the lead in finding a solution is the principle factor in determining success. If you poke around you will see that your story is a common story here, probably one or two people with your problem every week it seems like. And I am sad to report I can't actually think of any we have seen, with one partner not interested in addressing the issue, where the problem was resolved. There are a few guys around who have been able to come to terms with it and live with it. 

Best I can offer is have her try testosterone therapy for a few months, focus on really working on your romantic relationship, set a goal to have x number of date nights a week, sit and talk for an hour or two a night with no distractions, maybe have her try reading some erotic literature or something and go to marriage counseling. If all that has no impact on the situation nothing will. 

Based on your description I am not optimistic. Sucks


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> My man, the harsh reality is if she has no interest in fixing the issue, it will never be fixed. The LD partner seeing it as a problem and taking the lead in finding a solution is the principle factor in determining success. If you poke around you will see that your story is a common story here, probably one or two people with your problem every week it seems like. And I am sad to report I can't actually think of any we have seen, with one partner not interested in addressing the issue, where the problem was resolved. There are a few guys around who have been able to come to terms with it and live with it.
> 
> Best I can offer is have her try testosterone therapy for a few months, focus on really working on your romantic relationship, set a goal to have x number of date nights a week, sit and talk for an hour or two a night with no distractions, maybe have her try reading some erotic literature or something and go to marriage counseling. If all that has no impact on the situation nothing will.
> 
> Based on your description I am not optimistic. Sucks



100% accurate and I speak from experience.

Odds are she will not change and not likely to even try any of the suggested items in your second paragraph as she doesn't think there is a problem. I have suggested these very items to my wife and was met with a look of shock that I would even suggest some of them.

OP in reality, your only real option may be to bail out...or just live with it.

Hate to be so pessimistic but that's the reality some of us face. Some couples are very fortunate to have met and married the right person, others of us have to face tough decisions.

Best of luck.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

She might want to get checked out to make sure he hormones aren't out of whack... This can be a difficult subject to bring up, but your last conversation seems to have been positive, with her suggesting that you go to counseling. I would tell her that yes, you would like to attend counseling with her, but that you think she should see her doctor and discus her low desire with them. Good luck.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Exit37 said:


> She might want to get checked out to make sure he hormones aren't out of whack... This can be a difficult subject to bring up, but your last conversation seems to have been positive, with her suggesting that you go to counseling. I would tell her that yes, you would like to attend counseling with her, but that you think she should see her doctor and discus her low desire with them. Good luck.


Op says it's been FIFTEEN YEARS with no progress. Doubt it's "hormonal issues". It's a "her" issue.

Don't know why he married her or stayed with her in this dynamic for so long, especially after a disappointing first marriage.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Texas Tim said:


> I am new to this forum. After reading some other posts my situation seems insignificant, and yet for me it is a problem that I wrestle with daily.
> The problem. My wife and I are on opposite sides of the sexual needs spectrum. As a male I want to be desired and would like more sex with her physically, verbally, emotionally.
> My wife says she is tired or doesn’t have the sex drive that I have and doesn’t want to discuss sex.
> I struggle daily with thoughts and feelings of rejection and inadequacy on one hand. At the same time I want to talk about it, read how to make things better, find out what her needs are and see if I can help. I am a nurse and have that innate desire to help and try and solve problem.
> ...


how often are you having sex on a monthly average?


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

I don't disagree with the other posters here that it is a "her" issue. Could be all kinds of physical issues. But I also know from my own experience that resentment can be a major cause for her to lose interest in being sexual with you.
In my humble opinion, as it seems you came here to save your marriage, I might suggest that you take a good hard look at what kind of husband you are?
With all due respect, Your putting expectations of what you wanted from her sexually may have sounded good at the time. But if she feels that you can't accept her being less than that, then over time she may resent you for it. In addition, you could at fault in many ways. Maybe you verbally abusive, emotionally abusive, neglectful of her thoughts or emotions. Maybe you are lazy and don't help her with things yet still expect sex on demand. Maybe you are passive and let her walk all over you. I don't know, I'm not in your marriage.
A happy and sexual marriage can't happen if its not mutual. What do you do to inspire the best in yourself and in her?
I don't know what your expectations are as far as how often. But to me, I would rather have passionate sex less often than frequent bad sex. Maybe she is feeling that as well? Are you a passionate love maker that wants to please her as well as you or are you all about getting what you want and it's over?
Again, some serious self reflection could help you to find answers.

As for a few comments that don't feel this can be changed very often. Again, with all due respect. I disagree. I changed it in my own marriage and know many more that were able to do the same. It's hard work and takes time. But it can be done if the two of you are still invested in creating a mutually happy marriage.

Just my opinion though,


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

RDJ said:


> I don't disagree with the other posters here that it is a "her" issue. Could be all kinds of physical issues. But I also know from my own experience that resentment can be a major cause for her to lose interest in being sexual with you.
> In my humble opinion, as it seems you came here to save your marriage, I might suggest that you take a good hard look at what king of husband you are?
> With all due respect, Your putting expectations of what you wanted from her sexually may have sounded good at the time. But if she feels that you can't accept her being less than that, then over time she may resent you for it. In addition, you could at fault in many ways. Maybe you verbally abusive, emotionally abusive, neglectful of her thoughts or emotions. Maybe you are lazy and don't help her with things yet still expect sex on demand. Maybe you are passive and let her walk all over you. I don't know, I'm not in your marriage.
> A happy and sexual marriage can't happen if its not mutual. What do you do to inspire the best in yourself and in her?
> ...


I’ll bet he wasn’t jumping through all those hoops when they first met. I’m not saying the OP doesn’t do all of these things however to say his Wife resents him for not doing things yet will be close in other ways is quite frankly ridiculous.

It really annoys me when people suggest that there husband or wife doesn’t do this or that, if you’re attracted to someone have more sex, it really is as simple as that. Anything else is just an excuse and life’s too short for playing stupid games.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RDJ said:


> As for a few comments that don't feel this can be changed very often. Again, with all due respect. I disagree. I changed it in my own marriage and know many more that were able to do the same. It's hard work and takes time. But it can be done if the two of you are still invested in creating a mutually happy marriage.
> 
> Just my opinion though,


Sure its possible but as you said "if the two of you are still invested". In many other situations, if just one party is trying, its really tough to make it happen.

And out of curiosity, how did you change it? Not challenging you of course, just would like to know for my own benefit in case its something I haven't tried yet.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Laurentium said:


> How would you explain the fact that she doesn't want to *talk* about it?
> 
> Maybe, but if doesn't want to talk about it, that may be tricky.


I fully agree... the first to overcome is why she fears the discussion to begin with.

We can speculate a dozen things, but if any resolution is to come one needs to know what she is afraid to lose in the discussion. Whether it is real or not, it is real enough with her to get in the way of the relationship.

If she will share those fears, you can better understand your challenges.

If she won't, and that is always possible, what are your next steps?

Doors open and close for many reasons.

Sometimes we find ourselves on the outside, and that is ok if we accept the place we find ourselves in.

Believe in yourself no matter where you land.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

When I hear someone doesn't want to talk about it, maybe I am in error part of the time but I assume that they are tired of talking about it over and over again and are tired of hearing about it. I don't assume that they never agreed to talk about it.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Sure its possible but as you said "if the two of you are still invested". In many other situations, if just one party is trying, its really tough to make it happen.
> 
> And out of curiosity, how did you change it? Not challenging you of course, just would like to know for my own benefit in case its something I haven't tried yet.


Well, the long answer was a year and a half of being tested, failing and starting over. But the outcome was worth the fight.
The short answer is that I went on a journey to become the best man and husband I could be. (not just for her. but for myself as well)
After a long enough time for her to know and trust that this new man was real and not just a ploy to get what I wanted. I gave her an invitation/ultimatum to join me in a mutually happy, passionate and sexual marriage. The choice was hers to meet me at the same level or I was not at all hesitant to end it without looking back.
She chose to stay and create the marriage we both wanted and deserved.
It has been many years since this took place and I'm happy to say that we have our strongest relationship ever. Will be married 42 years in a few months.
I hope that helps you to understand my comments. I will say that part of my journey towards becoming a better man was here on TAM along with other programs. Sad to see that many of the people from then don't appear to still be here.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Just throwing this out there....BoSlander always preached that the educational sector was a cesspool of infidelity...

Hopefully she's not being wooooed by another educator ?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Texas Tim said:


> I struggle with the idea of letting go of a marriage *because I am happy in most areas* and she does say she wants to work on it but doesn’t. For us neither of us are dealing with addictions such as drugs alcohol or infidelity. So I look in the mirror and ask am I to blame? Are my desires or needs realistic. If I was to continue with this settle for sexual life because I am satisfied in other areas is that possible?


But this one area overshadows everything else for you. You aren't to blame for anything. Your desires aren't at all unrealistic, and from your description your wife had no problem with your expectations until after you tied the knot. Once she caught the fish and had him on the stringer tied to the boat, she stopped fishing.



Texas Tim said:


> I agree sex is important, but not the most important part of a marriage.


If it wasn't the most important to you, you wouldn't have started this thread. It is a showstopper for you, but you can't admit it because if you did, you would realize that this wife just isn't "the one" for you.



Texas Tim said:


> She says I can have sex with her, but she cant cum, and really is just waiting to go to sleep. I can't do that, if the person is not interested in sex, and is involved I can't perform


So she is basically saying she doesn't want to be intimate with you at all. Full stop. Fine with being a roommate sharing expenses. No. Just No.



happyhusband0005 said:


> My man, the harsh reality is if she has no interest in fixing the issue, it will never be fixed


Yes, truth.



happyhusband0005 said:


> Based on your description I am not optimistic. Sucks


No chance for a change after 15 years.



FloridaGuy1 said:


> Hate to be so pessimistic but that's the reality some of us face.


Best to face reality than live in denial.

I will say what I normally do, life is too short to put up with BS like your "wife" is giving you. Think about the alternate. You divorce her, get a good dog, move far away from her and live a life single. Are you worse off than now? You will be getting just as much loving ( none ) as you are now, but the dog loves you unconditionally. 

You would be free to date women, and I would bet you will have all the intimacy you can handle. Unattached older men in reasonable physical condition who can still get it up ( even with drugs ) with a job are in demand because most of the ones worth having are already taken. You might want to DM some of the men on here who stopped putting up with the BS and are now living their best life ever. Just to recognize what your options are.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> When I hear someone doesn't want to talk about it, maybe I am an error part of the time but I assume that they are tired of talking about it over and over again and are tired of hearing about it. I don't assume that they never agreed to talk about it.


Perhaps, although tired of being asked or hearing about it can be a different wall that interferes with providing communication that gets to the source. 

I know when I felt defensive of something asked of me, or feeling tired of being asked, the reasons why were often more me than another. Once the questions were honestly answered, they tended to cease although honesty can introduce new hurdles too, especially if there is risk in losing something in the relationship.

Having the truth sooner is never a bad thing, nothing assumed.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> Your desires aren't at all realistic


Did you mean to say his desires are not at all UNREALISTIC ?


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

Allow me to throw this out there for consideration..

Op: "I struggle daily with thoughts and feelings of rejection and inadequacy "

Could his wife not be feeling the same way? Every time she get's talked to about this, she is probably hearing "you are not good enough, you don't fulfill my needs, you are a constant let down for me."
Is that not going to leave her feeling rejected and inadequate?
I'm pretty sure if I were being told that for 15 years. I would not want to talk about it either.

It seems to me that she has made efforts. But even those efforts were met with "not good enough".

It's like training a puppy. The puppy pees on the floor and you call him over just to smack him in the head. Pretty soon you can expect that the puppy will stop coming when called. (No pun intended)

Maybe a better way is to praise when she does try and let her know her efforts are appreciated. Maybe instead of making her feel put down, you be more understanding of her possible issues and work towards a win/win situation.

Just a thought?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

RDJ said:


> Well, the long answer was a year and a half of being tested, failing and starting over. But the outcome was worth the fight.
> The short answer is that I went on a journey to become the best man and husband I could be. (not just for her. but for myself as well)
> After a long enough time for her to know and trust that this new man was real and not just a ploy to get what I wanted. I gave her an invitation/ultimatum to join me in a mutually happy, passionate and sexual marriage. The choice was hers to meet me at the same level or I was not at all hesitant to end it without looking back.
> She chose to stay and create the marriage we both wanted and deserved.
> ...


All good.

All good for you, which is fine.
You were willing to bend over backward and near-twist yourself into a pretzel.

You got what you wanted, that's good.
What shape did your wife twist into?

Not any, it seems, she did not need to.
You conformed, she remained firm in her needs.

If both, do not compromise, one must.....and fully.
Not everyone is willing to go to that extreme for that additional sex, rarely that true intimacy.

I do agree, your marriage, ended the better, remains the outlier.


_As resentment grows, so does one's pride.
Pride, can be as hard and cold, as stone, that's bona fide._


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Climbing mountains can be fun and challenging.
When, so forced, it becomes that burden, best not doing.

Any relationship that remains that everlasting challenge, is best, not continuing. 
I say this because there are viable alternatives....for most of us.

In truth, it is inertia and fear, that laziness that keeps us chained to some form of misery.
Misery, I dare say, is what you say it is.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Perhaps, although tired of being asked or hearing about it can be a different wall that interferes with providing communication that gets to the source.
> 
> I know when I felt defensive of something asked of me, or feeling tired of being asked, the reasons why were often more me than another. Once the questions were honestly answered, they tended to cease although honesty can introduce new hurdles too, especially if there is risk in losing something in the relationship.
> 
> Having the truth sooner is never a bad thing, nothing assumed.


I sometimes get the feeling that unless the disgruntled person gets what they want, that they are not satisfied that the issue has been talked about enough. There is no point in talking about something over and over again if truth has already been spoken and the other party simply doesn't accept it and do whatever they need to do accordingly. 

I do not know that's the case here but it seems to be that is kind of human nature. Talking about it doesn't always mean acting on it if there is no compromise to be had.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I sometimes get the feeling that unless the disgruntled person gets what they want, that they are not satisfied that the issue has been talked about enough. There is no point in talking about something over and over again if truth has already been spoken and the other party simply doesn't accept it and do whatever they need to do accordingly.
> 
> I do not know that's the case here but it seems to be that is kind of human nature. Talking about it doesn't always mean acting on it if there is no compromise to be had.


I agree with this Down. In my own example, I don't really talk to my wife about sex any more. She is who she is and is not going to change. Its all on me now to decide if\when I just bail out on the marriage and give up on her. Talking is worthless any more.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

SunCMars said:


> All good.
> 
> All good for you, which is fine.
> You were willing to bend over backward and near-twist yourself into a pretzel.
> ...


I can only speak for my own situation. I’m certainly not saying what was right for me is right for every man.

In my case. I was not a good man or husband. I was reaping what I sowed. I didn’t bend for her. I bent for me and in turn for us. Honestly, it took my wife’s rejection to wake my stubborn ass up.

My wife too had to make many changes and did. But someone had to make that first step. Maybe it’s rare that it turned out to be the best for both of us but I don’t regret it and I don’t think she does either.

Thanks for your comments, always room to grow.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I sometimes get the feeling that unless the disgruntled person gets what they want, that they are not satisfied that the issue has been talked about enough. There is no point in talking about something over and over again if truth has already been spoken and the other party simply doesn't accept it and do whatever they need to do accordingly.
> 
> I do not know that's the case here but it seems to be that is kind of human nature. Talking about it doesn't always mean acting on it if there is no compromise to be had.


I believe when it gets there both are disgruntled... what happen then is the one who cares less controls they way the relationship is directed, thus the principle of least interest.

This is some of the fear I mentioned earlier, matters not the side of the conversation you are on, where one has to choose to let go of the things that hurt and understand why they are doing so.

Acceptance has a chance to seed then.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

gr8ful1 said:


> Did you mean to say his desires are not at all UNREALISTIC ?


Yes I will fix it


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Start by reading Married Man Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay. It is all about making yourself better and thus making you more attractive/desirable.


This is about the only thing that is worth taking out of the book… the notion of “sexual market value”. The parts where he talks about how he just takes his wife with overtly caveman-like sex and runs game on her is something an exhausted person with attachment issues will detest.

The better read is Ester Perel’s “Mating in Captivity”. Women usually respond sexually to competition, unsure things, the potential loss of their quality or life/standard of living or the prospect of being alone for the rest of their lives.

It’s also OK to set and respect boundaries. If sex talk is off limits, that’s her choice but the consequences are emotional detachment. You can also not be into what’s she’s into if you’re not. 

I’m also curious if there are things she harps on that aren’t good enough (eg your standard of living) but you keep putting effort into? My wife will go on endlessly about our house isn’t good enough and I’m the breadwinner and did most of the work to buy and make it livable. Now she has rejection sensitivity dysphoria which means questions or statements that can be taken as her efforts not being good enough are taken as direct attacks regardless of how true or non-threatening they are. FWIW.


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