# an update - 1 year later



## baloo (May 19, 2010)

Hello,

I posted my only thread about a year ago. I had reached wit's end in many regards regarding the differences in my and my wife's drives.

One year later, I am pleased to say that improvements have been made, and we are getting along far better than we did before. That is not too say that the journey is complete and that the summit was reached - just that I am happier now with the way things are then I was back then.

If this is the case for me, then perhaps it can be for you too. If you are in love, hang in there - success can happen


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## Zaphod (Jun 1, 2011)

Well, don't keep us in suspense, if improvements have been made then how were they brought about if I may be so bold as to ask?


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## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

Yes please! As someone just starting out, I'd love to hear what they are!


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## baloo (May 19, 2010)

Thanks for asking….&^). It was not easy, and I realize how fortunate I am to have the partner that I do. The basic recipe is summarized below, and a good deal of it should not be news – much of what I did with some success is consistent with many of the words of advice that are scattered throughout TAM.
1)	2 or 3 conversations with my wife that were difficult to begin, and maybe even more difficult for me to avoid accusatory/defensive posturing – but the end result of each discussion was that my love for my wife was underscored and emphasized, and I was filled with hope (she talked to me! we shared! I learned!) for what the next intimate conversation brought. Best of all, affirmations and clarifications sure helped to sort through the wild thoughts that can arise when one gets NO feedback….this was a start for sure.

2)	Two 10-day fasts from food following the master cleanse (aka lemonade) recipe) – I can’t begin to convey how critical my first detoxification from everything seems relative to the successes I have realized this far. But be warned – it is not for everyone. In fact, completing the first fast was simultaneously the most difficult and the simplest thing I have ever done (fasting = not eating…what could be easier than not doing something – doing nothing is something I can do [or not do?] with the best of them!). I did the second one about 50 days later because a) I wanted to recapture some of the incredible feelings and sensations the first one resulted in (amazing how one’s taste buds respond after being starved for a bit – but keep them fed regularly, and they hardly comment how yummy organic vegetable broth actually can be), b) I wanted to reinforce the many good healthy eating desires I strangely and happily found parading around my brain (alas, that can fade, too, like the taste sensation), and c) to keep on losing weight.

3)	10,000+ curls with an 8-lb dumbbell, 200+ miles of walking at a barely-cracking-a-sweat gentle pace, and not as many sit-ups/crunches as a I coulda-shoulda, but still more than I’d done in the prior 5 years. Simply put, I tried to stay active or in motion as much as my circumstances permitted (I sit a lot at work with much hands-free time, and it’s really pretty easy to do some basic curls while driving here and there – bonus workout for those with sunroofs and convertibles) on the premise that any activity burns glucose (and my body had stored plenty on the form of glycogen, aka fat by then). I did much of my walking with my dog every night – bonus for him, and the darkened, quiet streets of our neighborhood lend themselves quite well for some intense and focused thought/analysis.

4)	4 or 5 solo visits over about 2 months with a marriage counselor we had met with for a few sessions in 2008 – speaking to a third party really helped me to keep things in context and perspective, and it did not hurt that the counselor (a woman) couldn’t help but comment positively on the physical changes she was witnessing on a weekly basis, and the praise that came with it.

5)	A small bit of journaling – just enough to help me place all those nighttime feelings and thoughts into a coherent order; the bonus here is that by the time I tried to write things down, some of those thoughts – which had seemed so mighty and certain just the night before – just could not fly in the face of logic or non-emotional reason of other thoughts, presumptions, and facts I held or knew to be so. Thus, some things got scrapped from the mental list of real issues and put in the imagined category (and, therefore, not really worthy of further fueling whatever fire burned legitimately). Another result of journaling was this: before writing down my thoughts, it felt as though I was caught in a whirlwind of negative thinking that seemed to have no end – I’d be revisited by the very same thoughts I’d had the day before; for me, there was bit of an effect where once I’d written a thought down (and re-read them a couple of times to reflect and let it sink in), I rarely got hung up on that one again, almost as though it was not sufficiently expressed until it was written (and not just felt in an emotional moment).

6)	Prayer – again, be warned. This may not be for everyone. I have been a catholic for all of my life, and a mindfully-practicing one for the last two decades or so. I don’t preach, but I do gain strength from my faith, and a beautiful thing that my journaling led to was the spontaneous composition of my own personal daily prayer of thanks (for seeing the light shine on this path I am on) and promise (to work hard today to become the perfect me – if only for a moment – before I die). Notice that I only promise to work hard today – I do not promise to actually be the perfect me (which is not to be confused with the perfect you) – at least not today; that is just my end goal. I judge the day (and me) to be a success if I have met the goal of putting some serious and honest effort into self-improvement on any/some level. The daily prayer (my own) worked more wonders on my psyche than attending mass ever did (that was typically done more because I knew it made the loved ones I attended with happy than because of a sense that I needed to be in a church to commune with God).

7)	Accepting that I am – at best and with less frequency than I’d like – only in control of myself. It sounds simple, but truly recognizing it enabled me to focus my efforts and energies on that which I alone could control. Doing so, while admitting that my wiring was no more or less “right” than my wife’s (just different), allowed me to let go of the anger and resentment that had been festering for a long, long time.

I don’t aim to be misunderstood – my life is not perfect, and I am not having mind-blowing sex 6 times a week. But the frequency has improved (up to perhaps 3 or 4 intimate instances monthly), as has my wife’s apparent ability to more actively enjoy and desire such time together. I greatly hope that the trend increases, and will try to let y’all know how that goes. In the meantime, there is still much for me to do to become the perfect me. Thanks for reading this far – I’ll save the pitfalls and disappointments of the last 12 months for another post.


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## Roooth (May 13, 2011)

I'm very impressed. You took the intiative to improve yourself physically, emotionally and spiritually. That's a lot of effort. It gives me hope too. I'm working on my attitude about our strained sex life and enjoyed a very nice session this morning - we were relaxed emotionally and invigorated physically! My head didn't try to talk during the sex except once super briefly; just enjoyed it. It's been about a month which is better - last time it had been 3! I'm really hoping that ours can improve. I get a lot of physical affection so if we had amazing sex weekly, I could live with that and be pretty content. (After going through so much frustration, I'd know to be happy with that.)

Thanks for helping inspire us with your success story!!! :smthumbup:


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## Nicbrownn80 (Mar 20, 2011)

thats amazing! I would not be able to do that much.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Nicbrownn80 said:


> thats amazing! I would not be able to do that much.


Well, you know what they say - You reap what you sow.


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## baloo (May 19, 2010)

hang in there, Roooth, and way to go with the morning session (is there a better way to begin the day?)....

Nic - the only requirements are willpower and discipline. both are difficult to sustain, but that's really all that is needed. YOU can do it if you resolve to.

Enchantment - QED!


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## marriedwithkids1 (Nov 10, 2010)

Congrats!!!

PS. I think many people overestimate the frequency of their sex. I have a doctor friend who told me that patient typically overstate the frequency/intensity of their excercize and understate how much they smoke or drink. I think it is common for people to overstate the frequency of sex. 

From what i have read 6-8 times a month is fairly common. 

my .02


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## beentheredonthat (Feb 20, 2011)

Baloo congrats! I love to hear success stories, keep up the good work!


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## baloo (May 19, 2010)

okay, so Sunday morning, W and & I are rolling around and things are heating up. She sees the time and says - we've got to stop - church is in an hour and I need to prepare myself :scratchhead:. The rolling continues for a few minutes more when she says - we've got to stop, but we've got tonight. 

My take on the relative appropriateness of pre-Mass marital sex is different from hers, but I don't take the moment to press my philosophical belief - after all, maybe the "interruptus" will escalate her desires yet further by nightfall, and a religious debate was the last thing I had on mind at that moment. She even offered to see me all the way through quickly, but I declined, saying that I didn't want her to add to the conflicting thoughts she appeared to be expecting to have at Mass.

Sunday night arrives and as we're climbing into bed she says - I am just so stuffed (we'd been to a cookout that evening) and I don't feel sexy right now. A few beats pass and she says she'd be happy to help me, however. A few more beats pass in silence, and she asks "No?". I reply: no, that's okay. She then thanked me for understanding, gave a quick kiss, and then pointed to Monday night as a "for sure".

Monday night around 10, she is watching TV and I give her a brief kiss on the top of her head while letting her know I am going upstairs (to the bedroom). She was watching an episode of Sex in The City, so I thought, hey, perhaps this is how she'll want to begion directing her mind aways from the stresses of the day and toward amorous thoughts. 

Well, we both must have dozed, because I awoke to see her coming to bed half-asleep around midnight. She climbed in and fell right to sleep without checking to see if I was awake or wakeable. Okay. 

Tuesday, I bring home an aromatic bouquet I impulsively picked up while getting some cream at the market. She was busy helping our 4 year-old in the shower, so I popped them in a vase and set them on her bedside table. 10 minutes later, she comes downstairs and thanks me for the flowers and gives a short kiss/hug. 

Tuesday night, 10 PM arrives - she has fallen asleep on the couch while I was walking our dogs. She wakes up, and we go to our bedroom together - as I am starting to undress in our closet before heading into shower (it was hot last night!), she climbs into bed, quietly says thank you (for the flowers again, I presume), and is out like a light.

This morning -we are awoken - as usual - by our 7 month-old labrador's wake up call from his crate (on a side note, let me know if you have a tip on getting such to sleep past dawn - even blackout blankets on the crate do not help). Most days, she is the one to get up and take care of the dogs and then begin her day. But, there are plenty of mornings - weekends most often, admittedly - when I make the trip downstairs to feed/let out-then in the dogs, and start a pot of coffee (for her - I can't stand the stuff). 

The puppy does not take well to being re-crated at 5:30; she tends to play and exercise with him at that point and then proceeds along with her day, whereas I, on the mornings when I take dog-duty, fill a hollowed bone with massive quantities of peanut butter and toss it and the pup back into the crate. this usually buys a good 30-40 more minutes of quiet time. When she is still fast asleep, I use this time to work on my cuddling/seduction skills . When I remain in bed, she does not return to it (see paragraph above).

This morning, however, we both get up initially together, once things are under control and underway dog-wise, I head back up to the bedroom. Things sounded pretty for the next 15 minutes or so, so I went back down to see what was going on. Both dogs were laying down (wonder of all wonders), and my W was reading a novel (specifically, one our 8 year-old had been begging her for days to begin). So I got a glas sof water then went back to bed.

the next time we passed was about 30 minutes later, and she stuck out her arms in a "hug me" pose with a big but somewhat tentative smile on her face. I was caught by surprise by we hugged for more than 5 seconds. It did not raise my spirits. Yet later, while we folded laundry on our bed and the children were beginning their mornings, she asked me how I was feeling (I am on Day 3 of a 10-fast). I told her I was feeling okay, but a bit sad. She immediately asked if it was because of Sunday night, and I told her - no, more because of Monday night, and then Tuesday night.

This led to a little breakdown on her part, acknowledging that she just does not know why she can't get past her hangups (catholic guilt?), that she knows she is inadequate as a wife (as far as our physical relationship, I believe she meant - she is a great friend and ally to me and wonderful mother to our children), that she considers herself an eff-up, and then expressed something of the "I often think you all would be better off if only I were the victim of a tragic accident" variety.

Thanks for making it this far - longish, I know. I know she has issues that I can't resolve for her (e.g., the catholic guilt, lower self-esteem than you might expect from a PhD, even one who has not worked professionally for the last year, and lord knows what else!?), but we have been making a lot of progress in the last 12 months romantically.

Any advice on how to respond (other than the 'I don't understand you, but I love you' I shared with her in a long tight hug before parting this AM) would be welcome!


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## baloo (May 19, 2010)

Just to clarify, I felt way better have expressed my feelings and thoughts to my W this AM, but the see-saw tipped back heavy on her. While sorry she feels the way she described, I don't claim responsibility for generating those feelings - but I don't know quite how to address what she said later today when we're together.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

When your wife offers to take care of you, you should let her. I know it's not ideal. But when you want more sex, you should never decline sex from your wife. You may be able to rationalize it, but you have just rejected your wife's sexual advances. Not a good idea.

Also, ignore all promises regarding sex. To many wives, later means never. All it does is make you anxious while you silently get your hopes up 10 times over the next few days. Tell your wife this. Tell her that promises/bargains are worthless. She should speak when she wants, or doesn't want, sex.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

baloo said:


> Yet later, while we folded laundry on our bed and the children were beginning their mornings, she asked me how I was feeling (I am on Day 3 of a 10-fast). I told her I was feeling okay, but a bit sad. She immediately asked if it was because of Sunday night, and I told her - no, more because of Monday night, and then Tuesday night.


Let me tell you where I'm coming from, in order to offer my suggestion. Our sex life had become strained/he closes-off from me sexually, although the affection has always been there. We've discovered the reason why this happens and slowly but surely are getting our groove back. Fairly recently however my H asked me how I was feeling. I didn't want to say. He pushed for an answer and I admitted I felt a bit disappointed. We were intimate later that night but reading your post and on reflection, I know this isn't going to help at all. I'm ashamed for even saying I was a bit disappointed. 

Although we've been making-out and getting some passion back since then, in that moment I would rather have taken a breath to cut through the negative emotion and express what it's really about which is - that I'm in love with him and find him incredibly sexy. If I'd told him that is how I was feeling and just left it at that, I think it'd be much more reassuring and helpful, than wallowing in my own mind and expressing disappointment which then only adds pressure to a situation we're trying to lighten and improve. Does that make sense? 



baloo said:


> This led to a little breakdown on her part, acknowledging that she just does not know why she can't get past her hangups (catholic guilt?), that she knows she is inadequate as a wife (as far as our physical relationship, I believe she meant - *she is a great friend and ally to me and wonderful mother to our children*), that she considers herself an eff-up, and then expressed something of the "I often think you all would be better off if only I were the victim of a tragic accident" variety.
> 
> Thanks for making it this far - longish, I know. I know she has issues that I can't resolve for her (e.g., the catholic guilt, lower self-esteem than you might expect from a PhD, even one who has not worked professionally for the last year, and lord knows what else!?), but we have been making a lot of progress in the last 12 months romantically.
> 
> Any advice on how to respond (other than the 'I don't understand you, but I love you' I shared with her in a long tight hug before parting this AM) would be welcome!


My advice would be to remind her of the good qualities she brings and what you love about her. 

As for Monday night with her watching tv and you giving her a peck on the forehead before going up to bed... how would she respond to you kissing her passionately and suggesting she turn the tv off? Or Tuesday night suggesting she join you in the shower?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

baloo said:


> This led to a little breakdown on her part, acknowledging that she just does not know why she can't get past her hangups (catholic guilt?), that she knows she is inadequate as a wife (as far as our physical relationship, I believe she meant - she is a great friend and ally to me and wonderful mother to our children), that she considers herself an eff-up, and then expressed something of the "I often think you all would be better off if only I were the victim of a tragic accident" variety.
> 
> Thanks for making it this far - longish, I know. I know she has issues that I can't resolve for her (e.g., the catholic guilt, lower self-esteem than you might expect from a PhD, even one who has not worked professionally for the last year, and lord knows what else!?), but we have been making a lot of progress in the last 12 months romantically.
> 
> Any advice on how to respond (other than the 'I don't understand you, but I love you' I shared with her in a long tight hug before parting this AM) would be welcome!


Hi baloo ~

Well, from your previous post it appears that you have put in a lot of effort to better yourself and your relationship. Kudos to you on that!

What kind of effort is your wife making to resolve her issues? Is she going to counseling, or otherwise doing anything active to resolve the issues she has going on?

As well, you have kind of that old 'nice guyism' stuff going on by deferring to her moods and whims on the sexual encounters. She is not respecting what your needs are, but you are enabling her to do this, and then you get resentful about it. If your wife offers you sex, take it. If there are promises made about another night, then you follow up on that - don't just let her sit like a bump on a log expecting her to come to you. If it is important to you, then you make it happen. 

If you haven't already, you need to discuss with your wife how important the sexual aspect of your relationship is to you. If it is important to you, and if you are important to her, then it will also be important to her and she would show that by her willingness and commitment to work it out with you.

Best wishes.


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## baloo (May 19, 2010)

in that moment I would rather have taken a breath to cut through the negative emotion and express what it's really about which is - that I'm in love with him and find him incredibly sexy. If I'd told him that is how I was feeling and just left it at that, I think it'd be much more reassuring and helpful, than wallowing in my own mind and expressing disappointment which then only adds pressure to a situation we're trying to lighten and improve. Does that make sense?[/QUOTE]

Yes, it does! I wish I'd thought of it that way (and I am usually so good at thinking outside of the box!) at the time.


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## baloo (May 19, 2010)

okay, so I _don't_ know how to use the quote feature....

@PHTLump: thanks for the solid advice.

@HeartsBreaking/re: "My advice would be to remind her of the good qualities she brings and what you love about her." --- I do, perhaps too much, it seems...she told me last night (as it turned out, the primary focus of our time together last night was intercourse of the intimate verbal variety) that she feels as though I send mixed messages by often telling her how much I love her but then flash bits of anger and resentment in some of our more heated "discussions"...

and re: "As for Monday night with her watching tv and you giving her a peck on the forehead before going up to bed... how would she respond to you kissing her passionately and suggesting she turn the tv off?" --- for reasons I have yet to learn, she is VERY uncomfortable kissing me passionately. I am still trying to figure out how to unlock that aspect of potential sensuality!...so, I'd guess that she would respond by "politely" avoiding (?) or ending such pretty promptly. 

and re: "Or Tuesday night suggesting she join you in the shower?"
I have let her know multiple times over the years how much I love showering together and periodically remind her that she has a standing invitation to join me.

@Enchantment re: "What kind of effort is your wife making to resolve her issues? Is she going to counseling, or otherwise doing anything active to resolve the issues she has going on?"

It is tough to assess the kind of effort she is making. She has been to counseling on her own at different times, totaling perhaps 2.5 years or so. She had been on anti-depressants like prozac in the past, but has been off any medication since 02/2010. Personally, I have preferred the unmedicated version of my wife - she has used frequent and vigorous exercise (long-distance running, kickboxing) to cope, and it certainly helps....last night, she told me she wanted to see a professional again and get back on the meds. I am hoping that a prescription won't be necessary, and that simply talking will help her.

Thanks to one and all for taking some time to help.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Suggest a sex therapist to her. If she wants to go back on meds, tell her to ask for Wellbutrin, or another anti-depressant that is not an SSRI. As you probably know, SSRIs have a common side effect of lowering libido.


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