# what happened to kissing? ?



## lovetodance (Nov 15, 2010)

I have a question that is bothering me, *ALOT*...I see this as a huge problem, but I want to try and stay openminded to the possibility its not as bad as I think it is...and see what other people here have to say..

WHen my boyfriend and I were first together,i.e.he seemed to like kissing, mostly french, but also 'regular'.

In the last four months apr. I began to be aware as time passed, that 'hey, he is hardly kissing (passionate open mouthed type kissing) me anymore. He kisses me closed mouth, when we see each other, when we leave, and sometimes in between, but he does not passionately kiss me anymore very much, and when he does it only lasts about a minute or less..not the embracing, passionate kissing that I know he likes.

It started to REALLY bother me, bc he has no problem with being sexual with me..it is making me feel to be honest, a bit 'used' that might not be quite the right word..but you know, he told me once how in a past relationship the girl never kissed him, she only wanted to have sex, and it made him feel like a prostitute. I hate to say it, but it almost feels a little like that..

A kiss (passionate one) is to me, the greatest indicator of true intimacy...I mean, you can have 'feel good' sex and not be emotionally close or love the person..but passionate kissing, that also doesnt always neceassarily lead to sex, is a sign of real love and closeness.

I asked him recently about it. I said "I noticed you dont seem to want to kiss me much anymore..."
his reason? He said "well, its just that you dont open your mouth enough'

I dont want to make this the sticking point of it, but to address the issue, I do open my mouth, just not wide, like I am at the dentist...In past relationships I never once got any complaints on how I kiss, and truth be told, it seems like my past relationships the men really enjoyed kissing me.

It really hurts my feelings, but I forced myself to not get emotional too much, I just pointed out that kissing is really important, and asked if he could show me how he wants me to kiss. He half-heartedly said 'ok, well, its not like I can really show you, ' but then he sort of started to kiss me for only a minute. He stopped, and I said "oh..is that it?" I felt so hurt that it seemed like he just wouldnt kiss me more than 30 seconds..
since that talk we had, he has on a couple occasions, (I am talking about over about weeks, here...not days...) in all that time, since I told him how important it is to me, to kiss, he has kissed me open mouthed maybe 3 times, and lasted only maybe 15-30 seconds. 
He just does not seem to want to embrace and kiss, the real way. But then he is always ready to be sexual...

Since I have already talked to him about this, what should I do? I hate to feel like i have to twist his arm to kiss me, what he should want to do..

A thought that occurs to me also is that even if my kissing style is not exactly how he would like, shouldnt he still be pursuing building that form of intimacy with me, instead of just having sex? 

I am starting to resent being sexual with him. Its like Im not good enough to kiss, but I am good enough to give him what *he* wants...

I am afraid this could actually, if he is not planning on ever really kissing me in a real way, could actually end the relationship..its too hurtful and humiliating to me.

It would be different if he told me, "can you kiss me like this?" and then continue to build that. What is also so hurtful is that when I talked to him, at one point I considered the posibility maybe he doesnt like to kiss, but he said "no, I LOVE to kiss...its just you dont know how..."

Then he told me to go down on him. I felt so hurt, I asked him "well, can we please kiss longer?" and he just simply said 'for now, I would just like you go down". It was like a standoff for a second, then I just did like he asked. I am kind of taking a wait and see approach, I was waiting to see if he would start kissing me, since I let him know how important, critical, it is to me. In the weeks since, he just hasnt made much effort, if any, in this way.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

It's been my personal experience that a lot of guys like to kiss when they're pursuing you, or the r-ship is new...but once the new wears off, so does the kissing. However..you posted that your b/f still likes to kiss but you don't know how to. Umm..ok. Would have been nice if he'd confessed that little diddly earlier in the relationship, huh? I can imagine how that remark must've made you feel. 
I think I would tell him to TEACH me how to kiss then. Pick a time when he's not stressed or otherwise engaged. Tell him you've been thinking about what he said, and you'd like to learn how. (please don't think for a minute that I buy this "you don't know how to" tidbit, but let's just go with that). You've expressed your feelings, time to take a different approach. Not knowing you or your b/f, it's hard to say which one though.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

lovetodance said:


> I have a question that is bothering me, *ALOT*...I see this as a huge problem, but I want to try and stay openminded to the possibility its not as bad as I think it is...and see what other people here have to say..
> 
> WHen my boyfriend and I were first together,i.e.he seemed to like kissing, mostly french, but also 'regular'.
> 
> ...


 U caved... and you shouldn't.

When i first read your post i wasn't going to respond, because i figured, of all the women on here dealing with the numerous troubles, this seem to be JV in regards to the level of seriousness. But as i read on, it seems that you are really passionate about how important kissing strongly in your relationship. You should of held your grown and not given into his fellatio demands. Because i took it as him saying, "Enough already, now suck my d\ck!" 

Sometimes actions speak louder than words, but this case is not one of them. Holding back the nookie would be a mistake, and could only make things work. Sit him down and talk to him about it more. Kissing is okay to guys, but not the end all, we don't need as big as an emotional connection like you ladies do. Hammer this into him.


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## lovetodance (Nov 15, 2010)

thanks for your replies, major and guy, I was hoping for more posters feedback, but still, its helpful. Major, when he told me that, I *did* ask him if he c ould show me how. He only halfheartedly replied something about not being able to really show me. BUT then he went through the motions of showing me, but his heart wasnt in it, for only maybe 30 seconds (in my post above)...

When he told me that, I didnt react, I forced myself to stay cool, and took the high road so to speak, and just asked him if he could teach me, but its like he didnt want to-- and the kisses are still not forthcoming.

Rob, i guess this might sound sort of trivial, in comparison to life and death stuff here..but to me its pretty significant. SOmtimes small things mean somthing big, if that makes sense. I recall my bf saying how his past girlfriend made him feel like a prostititue bc she never kissed him, only wanted sex. Thats how this makes me feel,.

Since I humbly asked him to then show me how he wants me to kiss, what else can I do?
I just dont know why, since he told me how much he enjoys kissing, why he doesnt do so

WOrried how it will affect intimacy, emotional intimacy, thats a basic thing.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Problems are relative to the person involved. What might seem juvenile to someone else is a major issue for others.

So while some posters might thing this is juvenile, it's not too you and that's okay - it's your life and what is important to you.

As far as the kissing - since he did say "you don't know how" (boy, men can sure be clumsy sometimes, huh?), he should at least show you when you humbly asked what the problem was. I don't know why he would tell you that you don't know how but refuse to show you? Maybe he is uncomfortable teaching you or really doesn't know what he wants.

If he won't kiss you open mouthed, then you kiss him open mouthed. Next time he tries to just peck you on the lips, pull him into an embrace and force that mouth open. Then try something new and ask him in a breathy voice, is this the way you like it, how about this, etc. Make it fun and sexy and then maybe you'll hit on what he wants or he will then be inclined to show you.

I don't agree with some of the posters that you should have not gone down on him. One bad turn doesn't deserve another and you would have been punishing him by withholding and I don't ever think that's a good idea - it always builds resentment. While I think he dismissed your feelings and was only worried about his "little head," I would have done the same thing and not made it into WWIII.

So, try to approach it less seriously and make it fun and flirty and see if you can get him to open up more and either "show you" or you might figure it out yourself.

Good luck.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm a guy and had this problem with my wife. When we were dating, we would kiss until our tongues were sore any chance we got.

I don't remember at what point into our 18 years that it became rare, but it did. We would always give a peck on the lips goodnight, hello, and goodbye, but the lingering, pashionate kissing became rare. When we did, it wasn't for long periods.

Personally, I loved kissing, but she didn't even want it much during sex. I can't remember her exact words, but she made me believe that sex was such a powerful act that she thought kissing was a weak thing to spend a lot of time on during sex. 

Later in our marriage, she said that she refrained because she was afraid I would think it should lead to sex and she wasn't in the mood a lot.


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## lovetodance (Nov 15, 2010)

Rob,

I appreicate your insight on my problem...i agree with you that maybe I should not have 'caved' to his demand that night..well, to me, the way he said it was more of a demand, than a request. I was trying to talk to him about how important it was for me to have kissing as part of intimacy, and he just basicaly in other words said "enough, just shut up and go down on me.." when i hesitated and said "well, can we kiss more first,? " he sat there, it was a stand off for a minute, then he again said "well, can you do like I asked you?" 
i hesitated bc i felt like there was something wrong with the whole tone of it, it kind of sets of a precedent, he doesnt need to be too worried about how Im doing, .my job is to just do how he asks kind of thing?

so my question Rob is about the whole 'caving' thing...is there a way, for my future reference, i have a feeling it may come up again, how would you suggest i should have responded? Should I for exmaple, just have told him "no, I dont want to..' or 'not if you dont want to kiss me.''' ? or ??

I love him and want him to be happy, but Im not sure how our relationship will fare if I feel like my needs arent an issue to him.

This came up in other ways, in some form or fashion, before. I told him the other day, when he asked how I was doing, I said ' not too good actually'... he didnt bother to ask why not. I said "Ive had a pretty hard life actually, ' he just dismissed it by saying "you dont know what hard is...'

it was like he wasnt that interested in why I was so down that particular day. Something had happened that I wish he would have been there for me, to just show a sincere interest in what was going on...i didnt pursue talking to him about it, because it seemed like he really didnt want to hear about it. I dont talk much about negative stuff, I usaully am more optimistic, but from time to time, when Im having a hard time with somthing, I really need to know he genuinely cares and wants to hear about it. The way he just said 'you dont know what hard is...' and wrote it off, said to me that if I am having a hard time, he would prefer to not hear too much about it


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

lovetodance said:


> Rob,
> 
> *so my question Rob is about the whole 'caving' thing...is there a way, for my future reference, i have a feeling it may come up again, how would you suggest i should have responded? Should I for exmaple, just have told him "no, I dont want to..' or 'not if you dont want to kiss me.''' *? or ??
> 
> I love him and want him to be happy, but Im not sure how our relationship will fare if I feel like my needs arent an issue to him.


The old antage... IT TAKES 2 applies here. 

If wants his needs met fully... you have to have your needs met fully. His is physical... yours is emotional, even though it involves the physical act of kissing. I don't know if you see him as a keeper or not, but if you do, make your stand NOW. Few, very few things fix themselves after marriage. If anything else... they only get worse. His unwillingness to cater to you this way is borderlilne RED FLAG. Its not like you are asking him to hang you from the chandelier everynight. Its acutally kinda simple what you want. Him being arrogant about doing it and being disconnected when you need him to be a shoulder to vent on is also a borderline RED FLAG. Many women look the other way and hope it gets better and of course it won't. Talk to him in simple terms again... and explain it him till you are red in the face, the exact way you've explained it to us. If he's this dense or unwilling to change... well i think you will have had your answer and may have just dodged a bullet.


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## lovetodance (Nov 15, 2010)

thanks for your thoughts on this, it really helps. I agree, I dont think my needs are too complicated, no hanging from chandeliers required...when i think about how high maintenance some people are, I am pretty simple as far as what I need- not alot of material stuff, not alot of demands or anything outrageous, I basicaly just need to know he's there for me, and also invested in how I am doing, just how I am invested in how he is doing. he wasnt interested in hearing about what had happened, to make me so down, to begin with. 

I dont often, I hardly ever bemoan my life..its pretty few and far between. This one day I needed him to be there, just show a real interest and concern why I was so sad..and he didnt even ask "what was is it that made me so sad that day. I was waiting for him to say 'whats wrong babe, what happened, im sorry your down...what's up?' but instead he just wrote it off by saying that I dont know what hard is and then started to talk about something else

it does concern me quite a bit, over the long haul, from time to time everyone has bumps in their life, need their partner to be there . If I cant count on him to be that close person who listens to me, who can I count on? he should be the one person who would be invested in that. 

i was already feeling very down about somthing that day, and was looking to him to kind of help me with it, but it made me feel even more alone and crappy, when he didnt show interest. 

so thanks, this gives me alot to consider and think about


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

I don't enjoy kissing my husband. I told him honestly I don't like his breath because he's a smoker with poor oral hygine. When it's time to have sex,
I would tell him to brush his teeth 3 times. He felt humiliated at first but now he always remember to brush teeth by himself.
So if you're a smoker or you don't go to dentist to get your teeth washed at least once a year. You're likely to have tartar that causes bad breath. It's hard to remove totally that annoying smell even after brushing. 
So, if you taste good, men are more likely to kiss you longer. Same for oral sex.
This is just for your reference!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Hopefully he gets it. I have a friend who recently got engaged. I've been holding her hand (figuratively) through her relationship with her now fiance. She was able to make her stand about a few things she had concerned with, they even broke up for a stand. But he got it, he actually got it and changed for the better. It almost destroyed them as a couple, but he was able to drop his man pride, humble himself and step up, thus making the changes necessary to be the man he is today. Your BF has to have it in him, and he has to love you enough to do it. A man can love you, but at the same time not cheerish you. I know that sounds odd but, he can love you and still take you for granted. Methinks this is where he is at right now. AS you lay down the law ( in a kind, caring way) if he thinks he will lose you, and he TRUELY loves you... he will do EVERYTHING to make sure your needs are met. If he doesn't and thus take you for granted, and his pride is in the way, then he'll go about it half assed.. thus you'll know the deal.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

MsLonely said:


> I don't enjoy kissing my husband. I told him honestly I don't like his breath because he's a smoker with poor oral hygine. When it's time to have sex,
> I would tell him to brush his teeth 3 times. He felt humiliated at first but now he always remember to brush teeth by himself.
> So if you're a smoker or you don't go to dentist to get your teeth washed at least once a year. You're likely to have tartar that causes bad breath. It's hard to remove totally that annoying smell even after brushing.
> So, if you taste good, men are more likely to kiss you longer. Same for oral sex.
> ...


Oral hygiene is a big deal for me. Luckily it is for my husband too. We see our dentist regularly for cleanings, etc., and brush twice a day each. 

I couldn't imagine trying to kiss someone who had bad oral hygiene. You must really love him (and I know how that feels, trust me!).


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Oral hygiene is a big deal for me. Luckily it is for my husband too. We see our dentist regularly for cleanings, etc., and brush twice a day each.
> 
> I couldn't imagine trying to kiss someone who had bad oral hygiene. You must really love him (and I know how that feels, trust me!).


I trust you! After my husband brushes his teeth, if the annoying smell is still there, even just a bit, i'd tell him to brush teeth again! LOL
I really love my hubby but I can't just kiss when he tastes bad, it really turns me off!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

lovetodance said:


> i was already feeling very down about somthing that day, and was looking to him to kind of help me with it, but it made me feel even more alone and crappy, when he didnt show interest.


To me, this is key. If your significant other is not the person who can help you feel better when you're down (and especially makes you feel worse!) -- you have big problems. 

And, in agreement with the other posters, it will not get better over time.


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## lovetodance (Nov 15, 2010)

it makes me feel cheap, that he doesnt feel like taking the time to hold and kiss me, but wants me to go down on him right away..i cant feel cheap for long before i go by the wayside..it will hurt me too much

should i just lovingly sit downwith him and lay it out there, how i need to feel cherished, and this is how...and then wait and see if he cares enough to start doing those things? If he does, great and if he doesnt, then consider ending it?


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

lovetodance said:


> it makes me feel cheap, that he doesnt feel like taking the time to hold and kiss me, but wants me to go down on him right away..i cant feel cheap for long before i go by the wayside..it will hurt me too much
> 
> should i just lovingly sit downwith him and lay it out there, how i need to feel cherished, and this is how...and then wait and see if he cares enough to start doing those things? If he does, great and if he doesnt, then consider ending it?


Sex is about to please each other. Because of love, you want to make each other happy and reach the maximum satisfaction together. No one should feel cheap or used because sex is not an ugly deal. Sex is beautiful when you madly in love.
He loves bj from you because you're good at it. He loves & appreciates how you do it.
If you want more kissing, you can tell him with a sweat tone, "Honey you are so good at kissing, I really love it and can't get enough! I need you to kiss me more! Because you kissing make me want you badly..."
You show your appreciation first, he would love to kiss you longer!
Don't think yourself is cheap! It's not a healthy attitude. He never thinks you're cheap. He just loves the way you sxxk his cok and he enjoyed how you did it.
Why would you get hurt because you made him so happy? You can't view sex in a negative way.
Let me share with you, I'd love to give my husband blow job until he reaches his climax. He just needs to relax, lying down there, doing nothing but enjoying my good service. He doesn't need to kiss me or do anything. I want to show him I love him and I simply want to please him.
Do you think I'm cheap? My husband treats me just the same. Love works mutually, when you cherish him, he cherishes you back. When you complained he didn't kiss you enough and told him what to do, he would do just the same to you.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

MsLonely said:


> I trust you! After my husband brushes his teeth, if the annoying smell is still there, even just a bit, i'd tell him to brush teeth again! LOL
> I really love my hubby but I can't just kiss when he tastes bad, it really turns me off!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would me too!


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## lovetodance (Nov 15, 2010)

mslonely

I guess i dont see it that way...i understand what your saying but i dont think that was his motivation...maybe Im wrong. 

i let him know it hurts me that he doesnt seem to want to kiss me, since then, he really hasnt made much effort to remedy that, otoh, he wants me to do what he wants, and put to the side whats so important to me...

maybe im reading the situation wrong, its poissible, but from other things, like him not wanting to take the time to talk to me when i had a really bad day, i think its related

i think he does probably love me, but maybe his own past upbringing or experiences somehow taught him to be somewhat dismissive of the other person's needs ?

i guess i will need to talk to him soon and see if he is able/willing to meet me halfway
its important, more than important, its critical, for me to feel loved/ cherished by the man in my life..if i feel he is kinda just sliding by to get what he wAnts, i might end up going by the wayside-- not bc I want to, but bc it will hurt too much (I do love him very much


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

I gotta say, I do miss those spontaneous, passionate kisses or makeout sessions that we had when dating. Me and the wife still kiss plenty, but not with tongue nearly as much. I think since we became closer and comfortable, sex is a given, whereas when dating there was still mystery, so kissing could just be kissing. That's probably why it's tapered off some. I don't need a plethora of kisses, but tongue for the sake of tongue would be cool every now and then again.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Romance and intimacy is so underrated these days, sex is freakin' overrated.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What I see is a man who is not in love with you enough to want to please you. He likes you enough to have sex and bj on demand but not to be loving and caring. You say you love him but I think it is only one way. If you hang on begging him to love you he will string you along until he finds someone that he is into more than you. The explanation for the passion in the beging is that he felt that way in the beginning but for what ever reason, it died. You are too convenient and compliant to notice and then to leave and he is certainly not going to give up bj and sex on demand. So you are unhappy you gut is telling you that there is no love it is evident that the love is not there but you stay. 

When a man says the things he says to you, he does not care if you stay or leave. If you stay good for Jim if you don't he goes on to the next girl. This is classic "he just not that into you". I know this sounds blunt but I think you need it. Sex does not mean love to men, it does for some women but men dont operate like that. They can easily have sex with woman they don't care for but don't make the mistake many make that having sex means he loves you it does not. 

I really think you should break up with him now. There is nothing wrong with you will find some who is crazy about you but this man is not. BTW you should not have given him a bj. If he can't kiss you a very small request why would you adhere to a rude and disrespectful request. When you begin to feel bad with someone don't stay, your mind is telling you that you need to leave. You are hanging on because you are waiting for the feeling he showed in the beginning to come back bit they won't. He may ask you to stay because you see convenient for sex but get out and find someone that cherishes you. If staying with a man who does not love you is OK then stop having sex and bj until he is more respectful a nd loving. Always trust those strong feelings, no matter what anyone says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MsLonely said:


> Sex is about to please each other. Because of love, you want to make each other happy and reach the maximum satisfaction together. No one should feel cheap or used because sex is not an ugly deal. Sex is beautiful when you madly in love.
> He loves bj from you because you're good at it. He loves & appreciates how you do it.
> If you want more kissing, you can tell him with a sweat tone, "Honey you are so good at kissing, I really love it and can't get enough! I need you to kiss me more! Because you kissing make me want you badly..."
> You show your appreciation first, he would love to kiss you longer!
> ...


I can't agree with this although it is common for women to think that they need to give more to get love but it does not work like that obviously. Men like the chase and challenging women, if you do everything they want and accept not getting anything in return the man loses interest. She has asked him repeatedly to kiss her she let him know it is important he does not care to give her what she needs because she is unwise enough to continue giving him what he needs sex. He is using her and she is hanging on because she loves him. Its one way love. What is in the relationship for her? There is not even exchange of satisfaction the hallmark of a good relationship. 

She can stay and lose her dignity by begging him but it is not working. She has asked him repeatedly asking again is begging and he know there are no consequences to ignoring her, she wont leave of stop giving him what he wants. On top of that he ignores her except when he wants sex. She is in a fwb relationship that is not so friendly and she does not know. He does and he has probably never had it so easy. 

OP please leave this situation you are right to feel as you do so stop being a doormat it not good for. Take what you learned from this and move on, it's a dead end relationship and it will hurt to leave but it will be far more painful when he dumps you for someone else. Why listen to theories when you have evidence right in front of your face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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