# Feel like my wife is upset with me too often over too little



## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

I don't just want to vent, but I want to know how to communicate about this problem with my wife.

For example, tonight we were discussing a problem she had with some paperwork and calls she needs to take care of and can't find the time (she is a stay-home mom with a 6-mo-old and a 4-yr-old, and I get that they are demanding). She said the problem was making her anxious. I suggested that she just schedule 15 mins a day, or even 15 mins a couple times a week, and take care of one little chunk at a time, because I know from experience that anxiety just builds until you start making progress. 

I don't know if maybe I got too emphatic or know-it-all about this or what, but she said that I was being "preachy." But the thing is she got REALLY angry about it, saying I was "****ty" and she doesn't even know why she ever talks to me at all and wanted me to get out of the room. 

Anyway, ok, maybe I was preachy. I apologized, and said I was sorry for the way I responded, and sorry she feels so overstressed, but this wasn't enough, she stayed mad. I feel like this happens too often -- she is so sensitive about little things and they turn into big blow-ups. It's exhausting sometimes. I need to communicate to her how badly this affects me without it being yet another thing for her to be "upset" about.

I have been working on my end of it, which is to try not to "fuel the fire" by getting angry myself. So at least I stayed calm. But it takes so much energy out of me when she's upset at me over these relatively small things. I had had a long day at work, put the kids to bed, and then went out in the freezing cold to run an errand for her, and I was getting ready to get back online to do more work on some projects where I have deadlines coming up. Even if I was a little bit jerky about it, I don't think it was so serious that she needed to stay mad about it.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

welldusted said:


> she is so sensitive about little things and they turn into big blow-ups. It's exhausting sometimes. I need to communicate to her how badly this affects me without it being yet another thing for her to be "upset" about.


Let's talk about you. What are your problems? I know for a FACT you're not perfect. What's making her angry at you? You're preachy, evidently. And I say that with a straight face. She said it. Listen to it. Listen to EVERYTHING she says. 

Yes, she COULD have hormone issues, or "girl problems" stressing her out. Maybe she has a lover. But WHATEVER you do to find out what's "wrong with her", keep in mind that you are half of this problem. Maybe more.


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

MachoMcCoy said:


> welldusted said:
> 
> 
> > she is so sensitive about little things and they turn into big blow-ups. It's exhausting sometimes. I need to communicate to her how badly this affects me without it being yet another thing for her to be "upset" about.
> ...


I have plenty of faults. I know my half. I acknowledged it and apologized for it this time, pretty quickly, but she just stays mad. I don't really care whether it's or hormones or what. She's always been this way and I just want to find a way to convey that sometimes I am just too exhausted for her drama over little slights, without putting it in those terms of course. Sometimes I just don't have the energy to spend hours apologizing and working things out over one thing I said.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

When was the last time you and your wife had fun together? 

How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you without TV, cell phone, etc doing things that you both enjoy, together?


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

I could respond but it wont be nearly as effective as if you just watch a video, its called "It's Not About the Nail". It's all over the net, go Google it and watch it.
Its about the difference in men's and women's communications styles and is directly on point with your problem.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It's good that you apologize but if you keep repeating the behavior apologies mean very little. 

Work on addressing your issues so you don't have to apologize.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If she's always between this way, as you say, it might be more than you can do to change this...


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Women often communicate to share their emotions with someone they care about. Men usually communicate to share information and problem solve. 

If your wife just wants you to listen to her for a bit, while you're busily offering solutions for her "problems" then there's bound to be a bit of a breakdown in communications. Next time she fusses about a problem to you, empathize, tell her you know she'll find a good way to resolve the problem, ask if there's anything you can do to help. _Do not _offer unsolicited suggestions or advice. Unless she asks you for help, telling her how to fix herself isn't going to go over well. She'll just feel unheard, invalidated and "preached" at. She wants to feel heard, not fixed. Listen. Don't problem solve.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Rowan said:


> Women often communicate to share their emotions with someone they care about. Men usually communicate to share information and problem solve.
> 
> If your wife just wants you to listen to her for a bit, while you're busily offering solutions for her "problems" then there's bound to be a bit of a breakdown in communications. Next time she fusses about a problem to you, empathize, tell her you know she'll find a good way to resolve the problem, ask if there's anything you can do to help. _Do not _offer unsolicited suggestions or advice. Unless she asks you for help, telling her how to fix herself isn't going to go over well. She'll just feel unheard, invalidated and "preached" at. She wants to feel heard, not fixed. Listen. Don't problem solve.


Exactly! Even though your solution was a good one and completely reasonable, it wasn't what she was looking for and your response seemed like criticism and/or rejection to her. Criticism because she'll think that you think she should have thought of that herself. Rejection because you turned her away when she just wanted to vent.


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Exactly! Even though your solution was a good one and completely reasonable, it wasn't what she was looking for and your response seemed like criticism and/or rejection to her. Criticism because she'll think that you think she should have thought of that herself. Rejection because you turned her away when she just wanted to vent.


I get this -- I know it's something I can continue to work on, but I do understand. However I feel like I always get a disproportionate reaction when I slip up in any way, and I have to walk on eggshells.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> When was the last time you and your wife had fun together?
> 
> How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you without TV, cell phone, etc doing things that you both enjoy, together?


Would you mind giving an answer to these questions?


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Would you mind giving an answer to these questions?


Do you mean just him and his wife, or with the kids also?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Rowan said:


> Women often communicate to share their emotions with someone they care about. Men usually communicate to share information and problem solve.
> 
> If your wife just wants you to listen to her for a bit, while you're busily offering solutions for her "problems" then there's bound to be a bit of a breakdown in communications. Next time she fusses about a problem to you, empathize, tell her you know she'll find a good way to resolve the problem, ask if there's anything you can do to help. _Do not _offer unsolicited suggestions or advice. Unless she asks you for help, telling her how to fix herself isn't going to go over well. She'll just feel unheard, invalidated and "preached" at. She wants to feel heard, not fixed. Listen. Don't problem solve.


QFT in my marriage and in many others, I would bet. My wife has a ritual of venting her day to me when we get home. We do it over a wine for her and a bourbon for me. I don't interject, I don't offer advice, I just listen and support her. If she wants/needs my input she's very straight forward about that and I offer what I can.

Men do try and "fix it". That's just the way we tend to be, but most women, emotionally work at a different level and are looking for support and empathy. Previously, when I would jump in with what I thought was a solution, she would interpret that as controlling, condescending or that I didn't have faith in her to make her own decisions. If I simply listen and support her she feels loved, respected and safe.

Secondly, and this is one of my favorite sayings, "If you find yourselves shrieking at each other because of the way one of you loaded the dishwasher, it's not about the F*CKING dishes!" It is generally something much deeper and destructive to the marriage. It's time for a marital inventory as to what's going well, what's not and what needs to be done by both parties to address them.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

welldusted said:


> I don't just want to vent, but I want to know how to communicate about this problem with my wife.
> 
> For example, tonight we were discussing a problem she had with some paperwork and calls she needs to take care of and can't find the time (she is a stay-home mom with a 6-mo-old and a 4-yr-old, and I get that they are demanding). She said the problem was making her anxious. I suggested that she just schedule 15 mins a day, or even 15 mins a couple times a week, and take care of one little chunk at a time, because I know from experience that anxiety just builds until you start making progress.
> 
> ...


Reading between the lines...

It appears she feels overwhelmed with her current responsibilities (can't find time for paperwork...), is she looking for you to step up and take some things off her plate? Is she looking for you to give her some more personal time to get her own things done?

While her communication wasn't the best, and I do think as adults we should state clearly what we want and need from our spouses, I can imagine that if she is feeling overwhelmed and your response was to belittle her problem she is going to be upset. She probably felt stupid for telling you that she was having trouble when your response made it sound as if she just isn't trying hard enough. It is hard to be vulnerable with your spouse if you feel that they judge you for doing so. 



Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

Well, fwiw, she took my advice today and it helped, she actually was able to make a dent in the problem and felt better. Whether she still bears lingering anger at me, I don't know, but she's speaking to me. I know sometimes women just want to vent, but my wife has a tendency to get herself into a negative thought pattern downward spiral.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rowan said:


> while you're busily offering solutions for her "problems"





Rowan said:


> Listen. Don't problem solve.


Ahhhh the mind of a woman. You are so right about this. I will never understand!

"How dare you offer solutions!" Basically they want you to listen to them complain. Don't offer any advice that will actually FIX the issue.


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> Ahhhh the mind of a woman. You are so right about this. I will never understand!
> 
> "How dare you offer solutions!" Basically they want you to listen to them complain. Don't offer any advice that will actually FIX the issue.


The irony is that this time I actually helped her solve the problem.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nirvana said:


> Do you mean just him and his wife, or with the kids also?





EleGirl said:


> When was the last time you and your wife had fun together?
> 
> How many hours a week do you *and your wife spend together, just the two of you* without TV, cell phone, etc doing things that you both enjoy, together?


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Yet, it's still not a solution for the long run as your wife will probably still feel overwhelmed and want to vent and you will come full circle again. EleGirl was trying to help when she asked how often you two spend time together and you ignored her questions, twice. Why? If you think the answers aren't important, then that's probably a big portion of the problem.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

welldusted said:


> The irony is that this time I actually helped her solve the problem.


Just do what the ladies here tell you to do. They are right.

Don't try to understand it. You'll go nuts. It's impossible for men to grasp.

Logic has no place. Just don't say a word, furl your brow and nod in understanding as she vents away.

I don't know why but that's all they want. She'll think your a big sweetheart after.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You posted the below comment on another thread. I'm quoting it here because it relates to this thread… this was in response to someone’s links to the WAW threads on TAM.



welldusted said:


> I'm increasingly realizing how prevalent this is as an assumption. Just look at the responses I got to my other thread -- I asked about a specific problem I have and virtually no one responded to the question I actually asked, while everyone read a million things into my marriage that were not in my post, and assumed it was my fault. Your wife is upset really easily? You have to walk on eggshells? Well you're a man, it must be your fault.


Not one person has done what you claim. 

People are asking questions to try to figure out your situation and you ignore the questions.

Others are giving some input that they think might be helpful. Why are they giving you suggestions on what you can do that might help the situation? Because you are here. Your wife is not here so no one can give your wife any suggestions of what she can do to change her own behavior. Since you are here, you are the one who will be addressed.

It takes two to tango. You are both half of the problem. So you are both half of the solution. 

You cannot change anyone but yourself. And, if you change, she has to change. You cannot control how she changes, but she will. And hopefully it will be for the better.

Relationships are like ballroom dancing (where your steps/movements are coordinated). If you are both doing the waltz, and one of you starts doing the cha cha… the other cannot continue the waltz. 

So people are trying to help by giving you ideas for how to change the dance of your relationship.

The idea often called the 180. Not the 180 linked to below in my signature block.. that’s for betrayed spouses. What is being suggested is a 180 that you is interacting with your wife in a manner completely the opposite from how you two normally ‘dance’. And they are giving you input that would most likely cause a positive change in the way the two of you interact.

If you came here to work on your marriage, people are giving you good input and trying to learn more about your situation to help you.

If you came here just to complain, just let people know so that they can choose if they want to participate in that.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Ahhhh the mind of a woman. You are so right about this. I will never understand!
> 
> "How dare you offer solutions!" Basically they want you to listen to them complain. Don't offer any advice that will actually FIX the issue.


By George, at least one man has finally gotten it! Congrats!

The next time you want to harp at your wife about that new supervisor or the lemon of a car you bought, don't be upset if she starts in on how you can fix it. Logic, right?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

How horrible of you. There she was holding a hard cheese and whine party for herself and you go right ahead and spoil her fun by suggesting practical solutions to her problems.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

welldusted said:


> I don't just want to vent, but I want to know how to communicate about this problem with my wife.
> 
> For example, tonight we were discussing a problem she had with some paperwork and calls she needs to take care of and can't find the time (she is a stay-home mom with a 6-mo-old and a 4-yr-old, and I get that they are demanding). She said the problem was making her anxious. I suggested that she just schedule 15 mins a day, or even 15 mins a couple times a week, and take care of one little chunk at a time, because I know from experience that anxiety just builds until you start making progress.
> 
> ...


You did badly.

I will give you a translation into women.
Her: I am feeling overwhelmed. I need to be told who well I am doing even though everything is against me and have a cuddle while I lean on you.
Him: Your problem is nothing. You should just make time and get on with it. Stop bothering me you silly girl.
Her: You are being uppity!
Him: Well, sorry then, if that will make you stop with your silly little whining.

She should not stay mad. The chance are her problem was trivial if she is staying mad (staying mad suggests it is emotional rather than practical). 

If you are in a situation like this, do not pay too much attention to what she is saying, but what does she feel and what motivates her to tell you. In the example you gave
What she said: "I have a practical, though clearly minor problem" - ignore.
What she felt: Overwhelmed
Why she said it to you: Wanted comfort.

There are limits. Sometimes women will just whine because they do not want you to be happy. However, there is nothing in this post to suggest that was the case. Also, offer comfort, but do not get sucked in by this. She is upset, comfort her, move on.

It might be worth asking directly if this is what happened. Say you realize that she could tackle the problem, but she felt overwhelmed and went to you for comfort and that you seemed cold. Do not apologize, just accept her answer.

The other side of this is when you actually need help and they offer sympathy rather than actually just helping. Another thread completely.


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## MichelleR (Jan 6, 2016)

Okay well dusted, I read your posts on this thread and the other. I do see your point of view.

Yes you invalidated her feelings by offering a quick solution and she got mad. Next time acknowledge how she feels first (overwhelmed, stressed, etc) before you give your advice. Your advice may be heard better. 

You did apologize for it though ( even though you probably didn't think you did anything wrong) and she's basically stayed pissy with you. You need to tell her how hard it is for you when she gets in these moods. She is so wrapped up in her own feelings and thoughts that she doesn't even notice yours. 

My husband points out to me how hard it is on him when I get depressed. I usually don't even realize I'm becoming an utterly pitiful Debbie Downer until he tells me and communicated that it is hard on him. 

If you're worried about her blowing up and feeling a attacked , I suggest you write her a letter. You can edit it to make sure it sounds loving and validating and only interested in helping the two of you stay closer. She may be surprised that you took the time to write it and realize how much of an emotional drain this is on you too.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Women often really don't tell you about their problem to get a solution. 
Men normally come up with the solution. She is trying to get empathy or understanding (a girlfriend would understand this). I know when I 'share' some issue with my H he does the same, always coming up with all the things I could do to solve it. It never makes me feel better, as he is not meeting me on the level I need, i.e. empathising, telling me it will be ok.

The problem is that men and women communicate differently however there also has to be mutual understanding. You do not understand what she is actually feeling and make the assumption she wants a solution to the issue raised. You are not responding in a loving way from her perspective (preachy, sh****, doesn't know why she talks to you, etc) and her response seems disrespectful which gets you upset internally and so the cycle goes.

Listen to this podcast from Dr Eggerich, it may give you a little insight into your wife and her responses

Episode 021 - Why Does A Husband Misunderstand His Wife? ? Love and Respect Podcast


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

welldusted said:


> The irony is that this time I actually helped her solve the problem.


Can you try to have a discussion about it at a time when she's not already upset about something? Something like 'i feel like you're under a lot of stress lately and i want see what we can do together to help solve the issue'. If you come at saying something like 'i feel like you're always mad at me' it will probably just make her feel defensive and it wont accomplish anything. She might feel like you're dismissing her probs or think you know the answers but it's also totally true that sometimes we just want to b!tch and have someone say 'you're right, that does suck'. Good luck!


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

Mr The Other said:


> There are limits. Sometimes women will just whine because they do not want you to be happy. However, there is nothing in this post to suggest that was the case. Also, offer comfort, but do not get sucked in by this. She is upset, comfort her, move on.


This is pretty much the crux of it. I know all the stuff about how women don't want you to solve their problems, they want you to listen. I've been married long enough to her to understand that. I don't always get it right, but I do sometimes. What I haven't figured out in my relationship is how to set limits on the complaining. As I noted in my original post, I got my daughter dressed and ready for school, brought her in, worked a long day at work, came home, got about 5 minutes to eat dinner, bathed and put my daughter to bed, and then went out in the freezing cold to run an errand for my wife. I had gotten little sleep, and I was worn down, and I knew that I still had more work to do. When my wife started to present all these anxieties that were blowing her problem out of proportion, I guess I didn't have the energy left to "just listen," because really she was just ruminating about something unnecessarily when she could just take small steps toward completing it, and I knew from my own experience with anxiety that that would make her feel better, and that ruminating would not. And honestly it just didn't sound like that bad a problem. I see where I was wrong, but sometimes my wife can just "vent" endlessly and I don't know how to set a limit on it.

On the other hand, if I react to it the wrong way, she winds up hurt and insulted, and has a tendency to stay mad for a long time. We have a long history of fights that get out of hand and go on for hours, although we've both been working on how to avoid that situation.

I will say that what I did right this time was that I didn't let myself get mad that she was mad. I stayed calm. I apologized and told her that I only wanted to help, but I understood that I was too preachy and that it didn't help her (even though I actually think it DID help her, in retrospect!). And eventually I just let her go to bed, because I had done what I could to resolve it. Eventually the next day it seemed like she had let it go.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

welldusted said:


> Just to clarify something, I'm familiar with that stuff because I've read TAM for a long time, including your posts. I know about the 10 hours a week and all of that. I only ignored it because it was kind of afield from my thread, in my opinion, and because I already know that my wife and I need more enjoyable time together, and I didn't feel like going into the reasons that it isn't happening as much as I'd like.


In order for people to help you, they really need a more complete picture. You were not happy with the responses you were getting, and a large part of that is you giving incomplete information.

It's not 10 hours a week. It is AT LEAST 15 hours a week. When there serious marital problem, as in your marriage, a lot more time is often required for a period of time so that both spouses re-fill each other’s “love banks”. 

Humans are chemical engines. Our emotions and desires are driven by chemicals. In reality, the “love banks” are an analogy for oxytocin, dopamine and other feel-good, hormones that make a couple feel in love and closely bonded. When those levels are up high enough, a couple sees each other through rose colored classes. That’s when all the fun in-love feeling give a couple passion for each other.

While you think it has nothing to do with your OP topic, it is the crux of your OP topic. It’s easy to tell when a couple is not spending enough quality time together. Your OP is full of agitation with each other that is a tell tail sign in this type of situation. It’s feels like pouring cold water into hot oil.

Women especially react badly to low oxytocin levels. When a woman’s levels get too low, the woman does not want to be touched by her spouse. She finds most everything he says and does abrasive or annoying. 

The way to fix it is to start getting the quality time.

The exchange between you and your wife did not warrant the reaction she had. Could you have done better as other suggest? Sure. Like everyone else, you are not perfect. But her reaction was over the top. It’s not because she’s bad person. It’s because she too is not perfect. Basically both of your reactions are way to raw and you are both way too upset for what happened. If you two were in the in-love, infatuation phase of the relationship this would not even be an issued because you both would have had on those rose colored glasses cause by lots of good chemicals in your brains.


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

I work 60 hour weeks, we have a 4-year-old and a six-month-old, and my wife is usually asleep by 10 at latest, so we just don't have 15 hours a week. Even if we could squeeze in half an hour to an hour every evening after the kids are asleep (which we can't always, because often we have to talk about finances, school, parenting, calendar, etc.), that would leave about 10-12 hours on the weekend. It's just not possible.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

welldusted said:


> This is pretty much the crux of it. I know all the stuff about how women don't want you to solve their problems, they want you to listen. I've been married long enough to her to understand that. I don't always get it right, but I do sometimes. What I haven't figured out in my relationship is how to set limits on the complaining. As I noted in my original post, I got my daughter dressed and ready for school, brought her in, worked a long day at work, came home, got about 5 minutes to eat dinner, bathed and put my daughter to bed, and then went out in the freezing cold to run an errand for my wife. I had gotten little sleep, and I was worn down, and I knew that I still had more work to do. When my wife started to present all these anxieties that were blowing her problem out of proportion, I guess I didn't have the energy left to "just listen," because really she was just ruminating about something unnecessarily when she could just take small steps toward completing it, and I knew from my own experience with anxiety that that would make her feel better, and that ruminating would not. And honestly it just didn't sound like that bad a problem. I see where I was wrong, but sometimes my wife can just "vent" endlessly and I don't know how to set a limit on it.
> 
> On the other hand, if I react to it the wrong way, she winds up hurt and insulted, and has a tendency to stay mad for a long time. We have a long history of fights that get out of hand and go on for hours, although we've both been working on how to avoid that situation.
> 
> I will say that what I did right this time was that I didn't let myself get mad that she was mad. I stayed calm. I apologized and told her that I only wanted to help, but I understood that I was too preachy and that it didn't help her (even though I actually think it DID help her, in retrospect!). And eventually I just let her go to bed, because I had done what I could to resolve it. Eventually the next day it seemed like she had let it go.


In the last few years I've totally developed a lot of sympathy for men dealing with nagging or complaining wives. This epiphany came upon me when my mother moved in with me, lol! Even if she doesn't _mean_ to nag or complain, it still comes off as a sort of criticism much of the time. Annoying as hell....and I totally understand how men just start to say 'yes, dear' and you don't even know what they're talking about. It's more trouble than it's worth to get into an actual conversation explaining the intricacies of what is actually going on. By the end of the day you just want to relax but then they want to watch tv with you and keep on jawing about their 'feelings'. 

I just want to watch The Bachelor and Love It or List It in peace and quiet, ok! Is that too much to ask???

:rant:


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

welldusted said:


> This is pretty much the crux of it. I know all the stuff about how women don't want you to solve their problems, they want you to listen. I've been married long enough to her to understand that. I don't always get it right, but I do sometimes. What I haven't figured out in my relationship is how to set limits on the complaining. As I noted in my original post, I got my daughter dressed and ready for school, brought her in, worked a long day at work, came home, got about 5 minutes to eat dinner, bathed and put my daughter to bed, and then went out in the freezing cold to run an errand for my wife. I had gotten little sleep, and I was worn down, and I knew that I still had more work to do. When my wife started to present all these anxieties that were blowing her problem out of proportion, I guess I didn't have the energy left to "just listen," because really she was just ruminating about something unnecessarily when she could just take small steps toward completing it, and I knew from my own experience with anxiety that that would make her feel better, and that ruminating would not. And honestly it just didn't sound like that bad a problem. I see where I was wrong, but sometimes my wife can just "vent" endlessly and I don't know how to set a limit on it.
> 
> On the other hand, if I react to it the wrong way, she winds up hurt and insulted, and has a tendency to stay mad for a long time. We have a long history of fights that get out of hand and go on for hours, although we've both been working on how to avoid that situation.
> 
> I will say that what I did right this time was that I didn't let myself get mad that she was mad. I stayed calm. I apologized and told her that I only wanted to help, but I understood that I was too preachy and that it didn't help her (even though I actually think it DID help her, in retrospect!). And eventually I just let her go to bed, because I had done what I could to resolve it. Eventually the next day it seemed like she had let it go.


I am not sure you had any reason to apologize actually. I have also been on the end of a woman just wanting to vent where the problem is so utterly trivial and the solution so easy simple and obvious that the motive is to annoy. If it is to annoy, then it is the product of a bad mood. If she was always like this, you are stuck with it, if not there might be some hope. 

EleGirl has to ask questions. Sometimes on here we are like an IT helpdesk, the first response will be "have you turned the monitor on?", "have you tried turning it on and off again?", which is annoying of you have gone a lot deeper. 

Assuming she is not always like that, it sounds like (and I propose this, assess how accurate it is), that she is bored and tired. Middle class SAHM's are historically unusually isolated. For the sixty hours I imagine she has children for company, little direction, and no adults. This is often a tough team. She also relies on you and reliance can breed resentment. That the professional balance is so skewed could actually make her envious (even though that make no rational sense).

If this is at all accurate, the simple solutions offered here are unlikely to work. That said, I will offer a suggestion and you can judge better than me if it makes sense. Apologizing rarely helps. Recount the conversation to her and ask specifically if you understand correctly what offended her. If she is pissed for a prolonged period of time, the argument may have got worse and she will remember you being terrible to her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

welldusted said:


> I work 60 hour weeks, we have a 4-year-old and a six-month-old, and my wife is usually asleep by 10 at latest, so we just don't have 15 hours a week. Even if we could squeeze in half an hour to an hour every evening after the kids are asleep (which we can't always, because often we have to talk about finances, school, parenting, calendar, etc.), that would leave about 10-12 hours on the weekend. It's just not possible.


Your situation is not unusual at all.

What time do you leave in the morning for work and get home?

Even half an hour a night on keep nights is better than you two are right now. And do not let anything else intrude.

Put off the talk about finances, school, parenting, etc as much to the weekend as possible. Set up a one hour meeting every week, say on Saturday where the two of you cover these topics. It’s the family business meeting. 

Then the rest of the weekend, you two do a 5-6 hour date on each day, Sat & Sun.

So that’s 2.5 hours during the week and 12 hours on the weekend.. 14.5 hours.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

I'm actually a little surprised by the kind of answers you're receiving in this thread. I'm not a regular here though. 

Why did you even apologize? You did nothing wrong. Your wife gets upset at stupid stuff because you allow it to get to you and you bend to her and she knows it. When you apologized, all you did was validate in her mind the right to be mad. You are being "beta" so to speak. 

Next time she gets upset at something dumb, don't acknowledge it. Yes yes I know women just want to vent and men want to solve it (I'm a woman) but why is the man wrong to do so but the woman not wrong to vent for the sake of venting and subject her partner to it? So you did nothing wrong. Let her be mad but keep doing your own thing and don't show her that her anger bothers you. Do your own thing, watch TV, browse the web, whatever. If she gets in your face about it, tell her you won't put up with her being unreasonable and walk away. Don't let her mood affect you. She will either respect you more and learn to control the mood swings, or she will get worse at which point you know you will just have to learn how to live with her or divorce. In any case, by not acknowledging her outbursts and not getting into it with her, you're saving yourself at least some headache.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I think this is interesting that it is being pegged as a "woman's" thing. My husband is the one who showed my "It's not about the nail" video and has referred to it quite a few times when I don't get it.

It boils down to empathy...it's not that she just needs to complain and not have a solution. but, in the moment, she first needs to be heard. I still need to work on my listening skills in cases like these.

Stress can do a number on an individual....

I agree with Elegirl...I think finding time together as a couple (getting your wife out of the role of mom and back into herself as a woman) would be a good step in coming alongside her. It will open up receptiveness to problem solving those issues.


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

Celes said:


> I'm actually a little surprised by the kind of answers you're receiving in this thread. I'm not a regular here though.
> 
> Why did you even apologize? You did nothing wrong. Your wife gets upset at stupid stuff because you allow it to get to you and you bend to her and she knows it. When you apologized, all you did was validate in her mind the right to be mad. You are being "beta" so to speak.
> 
> Next time she gets upset at something dumb, don't acknowledge it. Yes yes I know women just want to vent and men want to solve it (I'm a woman) but why is the man wrong to do so but the woman not wrong to vent for the sake of venting and subject her partner to it? So you did nothing wrong. Let her be mad but keep doing your own thing and don't show her that her anger bothers you. Do your own thing, watch TV, browse the web, whatever. If she gets in your face about it, tell her you won't put up with her being unreasonable and walk away. Don't let her mood affect you. She will either respect you more and learn to control the mood swings, or she will get worse at which point you know you will just have to learn how to live with her or divorce. In any case, by not acknowledging her outbursts and not getting into it with her, you're saving yourself at least some headache.


Yeah, although I did apologize, I didn't drag it on, I just let it go and went to do my own thing (work, in this case). I agree that this was effective, and a big step in the right direction vs when I used to try too hard to get her to "forgive" me even when I didn't think I was wrong.


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

cons said:


> I think this is interesting that it is being pegged as a "woman's" thing. My husband is the one who showed my "It's not about the nail" video and has referred to it quite a few times when I don't get it.
> 
> It boils down to empathy...it's not that she just needs to complain and not have a solution. but, in the moment, she first needs to be heard. I still need to work on my listening skills in cases like these.
> 
> ...


I think men need more empathy than most people admit, but men are conditioned not to look for it as much. Women see it as more ok to tell a man to "stop whining," and men learn not to complain but to suck it up.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

welldusted said:


> I think men need more empathy than most people admit, but men are conditioned not to look for it as much. Women see it as more ok to tell a man to "stop whining," and men learn not to complain but to suck it up.


I completely agree! Men and women are not that much different in their needs. Look at the 5 love languages or His Needs/Her Needs... Their not divided up as men's/women's needs....


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

cons said:


> I think this is interesting that it is being pegged as a "woman's" thing. My husband is the one who showed my "It's not about the nail" video and has referred to it quite a few times when I don't get it.
> 
> It boils down to empathy...it's not that she just needs to complain and not have a solution. but, in the moment, she first needs to be heard. I still need to work on my listening skills in cases like these.
> 
> ...


THIS is the heart of the problem. But, for OP, the issue is reverse.

Overall, there is an empathy deficit in the relationship. Everybody on this thread has essentially told OP to "suck it up," listen to her problems, be the rock, etc. etc. 

Certainly, that is solid advice if you are with a woman who demonstrates empathy for you. When I got married, I did not recognize the empathy deficit in my partner. You don't really notice it when times are easy and the workload not too great.

But, let me tell you, it gets really old when you have to live a one-way empathy street month-after-month, year-after-year. It wears you down to the core. It eats at your self-esteem. You can bear the burden for a year, two years, even five years. But, ultimately, you begin to wonder why your partner cannot understand your challenges, your predicaments, the sacrifices you make for the rest of the family. 

The board has been been entirely too hard, and completely unhelpful to OP. When I coached kids soccer many years ago, I would get upset with parents who would tell their kids to "run harder" in the middle of the game. Sometimes, you don't have the stamina to go hard all the time. You have to play hard, but you also have to play smart.

The board here has done the equivalent to telling OP to "run harder." Listen more, be more loving. That's easy to say. But, you know, sometimes the stamina for doing that just runs dry when you do it for so long with little to no reciprocation from your partner.

There is no good answer here. You can't request empathy on-demand. It has to be freely given. 

The only thing you can do is work to disconnect your emotions / feelings from being dependent upon her approval. You may want to explore the concepts behind the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" book by Glover. Perhaps you may see some similarities to your situation.

If you are in a situation where wife is not empathetic to your needs, your only salvation is in re-wiring your own thought processes. At the end of the day, you can't change her. The only thing you can do is change the way you respond to the way she treats you.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

So, it sounds to me like your wife has no support system like close family and friends. Is she rather isolated as a SAHM? You are out all day at work and busy running around, you have a lot of interaction with other people and not a lot of time to dwell on your problems. She may have the opposite. Too much time isolated so she spends a lot of time dwelling on her problems. If you are her primary adult interaction, she's probably dying to interact with you at the end of the day. She's had things swirling in her head the entire day and she wants to share them with someone, and unfortunately the time she looks forward to doing that is THE worst time for you because you're exhausted and have a lot on your plate. 

Do you think that could be the case? 

It's ok for you to have limits and be tired and not ready to give her emotional support at the end of the long day. I get it because my life is similar to yours with all the running around and working long hours. However, perhaps a better way to handle this would be to talk to her during a calm moment and explain to her that when you are exhausted, your ability to connect with her is diminished. Don't tell her you think her problems are petty (even if you do think that), instead see if you can schedule a time to reconnect when you are more recharged. 

This is why people are asking you about the 15 hours per week. She needs a little bit of your undivided attention or else she will feel cut off from you and unloved. I have small kids too so I realize you may not be able to schedule a hard date together, but you should be able to give her something to look forward to. When we were in your shoes, we didn't get 15 hours a week, but Sat and Sun mid afternoon was our time. The youngest would go down for a nap and the oldest would be allowed to watch a movie or play with something special that he didn't get access to all the time to keep him occupied. Then that would be our time to talk. I looked forward to it every week knowing we would have that time. 

Does she have any outlet that is just for her to have some me time? For example she could join a gym that has a child care facility so she can drop the kids for an hour and have that hour to herself. 



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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

kag123 said:


> So, it sounds to me like your wife has no support system like close family and friends. Is she rather isolated as a SAHM? You are out all day at work and busy running around, you have a lot of interaction with other people and not a lot of time to dwell on your problems. She may have the opposite. Too much time isolated so she spends a lot of time dwelling on her problems. If you are her primary adult interaction, she's probably dying to interact with you at the end of the day. She's had things swirling in her head the entire day and she wants to share them with someone, and unfortunately the time she looks forward to doing that is THE worst time for you because you're exhausted and have a lot on your plate.
> 
> Do you think that could be the case?
> 
> ...


So, I think the things you are saying are true to an extent about how she feels. However - she has a gym membership at a gym with childcare and goes almost every day. She has a mother's helper come twice a week (which I agreed to although expensive, because I saw that she was struggling). Her parents are 30 mins from us and her mom usually comes at least once a week. We live in a walkable urban neighborhood and she has other mom friends that she meets up with regularly. She sets up playdates with our daughter all the time. So I am aware of the isolation of being a SAHM, but I have also tried to support her taking steps to make it less isolating. 

This morning, I decided to get up about 20 mins earlier than I usually do, and I was surprised at how much difference this made -- it meant that we could sit down and have breakfast together as a family, instead of just rushing around, and it was really pleasant and enjoyable. I think little things like this are things I could do more of.


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## MichelleR (Jan 6, 2016)

Spending more time with her is fine but you still have to communicate with her how much her mood swings are affecting you. 

If you feel fully responsible for her happiness you'll wear yourself out. It already sounds like you're trying VERY hard to keep her content. She needs to know that it's so hard on you the way she's treating you. 

Again I suggest writing it down or if that's not your style just tell her how you are trying as hard as possible but feel like it's never good enough for her and it's bringing you down.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

welldusted said:


> I think men need more empathy than most people admit, but men are conditioned not to look for it as much. Women see it as more ok to tell a man to "stop whining," and men learn not to complain but to suck it up.


Oh, quit your b!tching, nancy.....just kidding!!! :biggrinangelA:


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

So another issue tonight. For background, I haven't had a "guys night out" since the baby was born 7 months ago, and the only thing I stayed out for was the company holiday party. My wife has had several nights out in the last couple months for social events. 

So I had this on our joint calendar for months, I had mentioned it to her yesterday and today. I let her know around 630 that I'm on my way to the pub soon and I get "Have fun I guess" in an annoyed tone. Then she starts in about how I should leave by 9pm. For context, I won't even be where I'm going until about 730, so this would make for a pretty short night out, not to mention that everyone will be asleep anyway when I get home. 

She actually hangs up when I say I'm not promising to leave at 9pm. I text her a pretty reasonable message that I have not had a night out in months and that I intend to enjoy it and that I will not be stressing out and looking at my phone to make sure I leave at 9. I also thank her for staying with the kids so I can go. 

I get back a long lecturing text about how I'm behaving like I want to be single again and whenever she goes out she is cognizant of her family etc, although in fact (1) she has stayed later than 9 at every recent thing she has gone to and (2) considering that I haven't gone out in months and my night out is pretty tame - a book discussion in a pub with some friends, there's just no basis to say I'm behaving the way she says. 

I responded briefly that what she was saying about me was not true, and I didn't harp on it. I didn't text any more. 

By the way, since I know you all are wondering, the group is mostly guys with a couple of women who sometimes come, and the atmosphere is really not flirty. And my wife knows both women and I can't imagine she has any reason to be concerned about them with me or vice versa. 

I guess I handled it ok inasmuch as I didn't let it ruin my night. I left at about 9:45 when things were winding down. I didn't spend the night looking at my phone and she stopped texting me.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

welldusted said:


> So, I think the things you are saying are true to an extent about how she feels. However - she has a gym membership at a gym with childcare and goes almost every day. She has a mother's helper come twice a week (which I agreed to although expensive, because I saw that she was struggling). Her parents are 30 mins from us and her mom usually comes at least once a week. We live in a walkable urban neighborhood and she has other mom friends that she meets up with regularly. She sets up playdates with our daughter all the time. So I am aware of the isolation of being a SAHM, but I have also tried to support her taking steps to make it less isolating.
> 
> This morning, I decided to get up about 20 mins earlier than I usually do, and I was surprised at how much difference this made -- it meant that we could sit down and have breakfast together as a family, instead of just rushing around, and it was really pleasant and enjoyable. I think little things like this are things I could do more of.


Sounds like she is a whining so and so. Some women just like complaining.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

welldusted said:


> So another issue tonight. For background, I haven't had a "guys night out" since the baby was born 7 months ago, and the only thing I stayed out for was the company holiday party. My wife has had several nights out in the last couple months for social events.
> 
> So I had this on our joint calendar for months, I had mentioned it to her yesterday and today. I let her know around 630 that I'm on my way to the pub soon and I get "Have fun I guess" in an annoyed tone. Then she starts in about how I should leave by 9pm. For context, I won't even be where I'm going until about 730, so this would make for a pretty short night out, not to mention that everyone will be asleep anyway when I get home.
> 
> ...


When she said "Have fun I guess", I would have responded with a cheerful thanks! Love you!

When she asked you to be home by 9, I would have responded with a short "I am not sure what time this will end, but I will send you a text when I'm leaving so you know I'm on my way home. Thanks for taking care of the kids. See you soon!"

Then leave all of the other fighting about who deserves to do what for a later time. She may have cooled off by the time you got home anyway and let the whole thing drop. I just would have refused any of the bait to get into an argument at that moment.

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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

welldusted said:


> So another issue tonight. For background, I haven't had a "guys night out" since the baby was born 7 months ago, and the only thing I stayed out for was the company holiday party. My wife has had several nights out in the last couple months for social events.
> 
> So I had this on our joint calendar for months, I had mentioned it to her yesterday and today. I let her know around 630 that I'm on my way to the pub soon and I get "Have fun I guess" in an annoyed tone. Then she starts in about how I should leave by 9pm. For context, I won't even be where I'm going until about 730, so this would make for a pretty short night out, not to mention that everyone will be asleep anyway when I get home.
> 
> ...


Why did you text her after she hung up on you? All you're doing is giving her the opportunity to give you crap. You already told her you weren't going to guarantee anything. There was nothing more to say.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

You're a parent. Never, ever, ever, ever, tell your wife that you don't want to be looking at your phone. It sounds like you may miss or ignore emergency calls. Other than that, having a night out talking to other adults after 7 months of not being social on your own is more than reasonable.


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> You're a parent. Never, ever, ever, ever, tell your wife that you don't want to be looking at your phone. It sounds like you may miss or ignore emergency calls. Other than that, having a night out talking to other adults after 7 months of not being social on your own is more than reasonable.


Good point, although I don't think I actually used those words, just said "I don't want to be stressed about leaving at 9 sharp" or something like that. I always keep my phone on the table in front of me.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Are you tired of being treated like you are an non contributing, absentee husband and father? 

Then that's what you say to her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Seems to me that it's not really a guys night out if women are there. And the atmosphere is "really not flirty"? What does that mean? 

I'm not sure a woman going out with the girls who happened to include a few guys in a "really not flirty" atmosphere would be cut so much slack here. 

Having said that there's nothing wrong with you wanting some guy social time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Do you two go out together to these things sometimes? Sounds like it could have been a potential for a fun night together. Get away from the kids and just be partners together. She's gotta start wanting to have her nights out be with YOU too though and not always alone. 
Sometimes it's needed but IMO the majority of your recreation time and fun time should be spent together.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Seems to me that it's not really a guys night out if women are there. And the atmosphere is "really not flirty"? What does that mean?
> 
> I'm not sure a woman going out with the girls who happened to include a few guys in a "really not flirty" atmosphere would be cut so much slack here.
> 
> Having said that there's nothing wrong with you wanting some guy social time.


I was thinking the same thing about other women being there.

If a woman posted here that she wanted to go out with her friends for a few drinks and there would be a couple of guys there and it's "really not flirty" the men on TAM would be all over it saying that she is going to a meat market, picking up on guys, it is not appropriate for a married woman to do and on and on.


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I was thinking the same thing about other women being there.
> 
> If a woman posted here that she wanted to go out with her friends for a few drinks and there would be a couple of guys there and it's "really not flirty" the men on TAM would be all over it saying that she is going to a meat market, picking up on guys, it is not appropriate for a married woman to do and on and on.


There are literally two women at most out of 8-10 people when I have gone (one last nigh), and both women are college friends of both me and my wife. I'm talking about 8-10 people sitting around a table in a quiet pub, having a beer or two and talking about a book. My wife came to these events a couple times but isn't interested anymore.


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Do you two go out together to these things sometimes? Sounds like it could have been a potential for a fun night together. Get away from the kids and just be partners together. She's gotta start wanting to have her nights out be with YOU too though and not always alone.
> Sometimes it's needed but IMO the majority of your recreation time and fun time should be spent together.


We go out together for other things.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife can only see her own perspective. HEr focus is herself. You have to acknowledge her perspectrive but show her yours.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

welldusted said:


> There are literally two women at most out of 8-10 people when I have gone (one last nigh), and both women are college friends of both me and my wife. I'm talking about 8-10 people sitting around a table in a quiet pub, having a beer or two and talking about a book. My wife came to these events a couple times but isn't interested anymore.


I get it. But I was addressing how it is often seen from other side of things.

Your wife might not be comfortable with the other women being there on your 'Guys night out'. You might want to find out if that is part of the issue.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I thought you two didn't have enough time to spend together during the week...how the hell are both of you having guys nights out and girls nights out when you don't spend enough time together???

Take the time to be a couple again, THEN worry about going out away from each other...

BOTH of you are acting out. You want to get away from a complaining wife, she wants to get away from a H who essentially is too busy to spend any romantic time with her. You said you work 60 hours a week. When you do get time in the evenings, you spend it talking about kids, parenting, school, etc...

So, when do you two take the time to nurture your relationship? Resentment is probably a big part of the problem here. 

And yeah, if a female came to TAM and talked about how she went out with the girls and there just so happened to be an couple of "old college buddies" there that were friends with both the H and W (but H wasn't present at this GNO), then she would be accused to going to the meat market, especially if she was talking about how she doesn't have any time to spend with her H - he is going out several times a month - he whines too much...etc etc. It's not a guys night out if women are there.

This isn't to say it's your fault. I said earlier...it's the BOTH of you. She's complaining a lot for a reason. Sit her down when she isn't mad and tell her straight up that you cannot deal with constant negativity all of the time. You will be there to talk to her, but she needs to learn to communicate her stress in a better way. If that means counseling, then so be it. It's cheaper than a divorce down the road. 

And you two need to find time to clean up your relationship. You (collectively meaning you and your W) obviously have time to go out several times a month- find time to spend with each other. It's important.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I was thinking the same thing about other women being there.
> 
> If a woman posted here that she wanted to go out with her friends for a few drinks and there would be a couple of guys there and it's "really not flirty" the men on TAM would be all over it saying that she is going to a meat market, picking up on guys, it is not appropriate for a married woman to do and on and on.



Yeah, does seem like a bit of the TAM double standard at work. 

I don't think OP is doing anything wrong but it might be worth asking his wife how she feels about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MarriedTex said:


> THIS is the heart of the problem. But, for OP, the issue is reverse.
> 
> Overall, there is an empathy deficit in the relationship. Everybody on this thread has essentially told OP to "suck it up," listen to her problems, be the rock, etc. etc.
> 
> ...


Thank you for finally being one to say this! Maybe she is just a whiny, selfish b!tch, and if she is, she isn't going to change. The man says he is walking on eggshells, this indicates more of a problem than him not "just listening" while she complains.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I get it. But I was addressing how it is often seen from other side of things.
> 
> Your wife might not be comfortable with the other women being there on your 'Guys night out'. You might want to find out if that is part of the issue.


I believe she would complain even if NO women were involved.


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

Thank god for you guys, I couldn't believe what I was reading from the other posters, if the roles were reversed they'd all be singing for her to divorce him

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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Thank you for finally being one to say this! Maybe she is just a whiny, selfish b!tch, and if she is, she isn't going to change. The man says he is walking on eggshells, this indicates more of a problem than him not "just listening" while she complains.


I meant these guys 

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