# This year we’ve had sex seven times - I am a woman



## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

I am in a virtually sexless marriage. This year we’ve had sex seven times. 

I am a slim and attractive woman, and probably have a fairly strong sex drive. 4-5 times a week would be great (before a child came along, anyway). I find myself in the same position a lot of you fellas are in, to some extent. It’s kind of ludicrous, really, if I was not so frustrated. I have a lot of insights into why this is and my husband’s resentments, but still feel at a loss, and so am looking to you men to shed some light on my problems. Thank you for taking the time to read my long posts.

I am forty, and have been told I look at least ten years younger; good genes and sound habits help. 5’5’’, 121 pounds. Lost 13 lbs over the last year gradually after coming back from a foreign country where I much preferred the cuisine, but have never gone above 136; was around 126-132 most of my adult life. I am even rather curvaceous for Asians, and have been told wherever I've lived (Asia, US and Europe) that I am pretty. Getting men's attention was never an issue.


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

My husband has always had a low sex drive in this relationship. I wouldn’t mind it so much if he is not gorgeous and if I don’t adore him. To me he is my Green-eyed Adonis, and at 39 looks 28, even if he’s gained a bit of weight. We’ve been together twelve years and married almost ten. I have been deliriously happy until the last two years, when things got increasingly rocky.

When we first got together he decided to stay in this country for my sake, and it was a big step for him since he was from Europe. So even then we only had sex once every couple of weeks. The very first night he stayed over and we had mind-blowing sex – it was my first orgasm ever – he left the next morning without wanting a repeat. (He was only 27.) He said that the stress of finding a way to stay here and finishing his grad degree took its toll. 

The lack of sex threatened to derail our relationship the first year, but then stabilized to perhaps once every couple of weeks, and more if we went on vacation. In every other respect we were crazy about each other – best friends, great conversation, very similar convictions, same wavelength about money, complementary personalities.


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

After the marriage the frequency of sex declined, and we fought over it, with me initiating and him turning me down. I stayed home to have a child, we moved twice between continents in three years, he changed jobs once and got laid off twice – stress galore. Sex went out of the window. We had no sex at all during the whole nine months I was pregnant. Getting pregnant was easy; too easy. I conceived after two tries! You can imagine my disappointment (smile). 

The first two years after our daughter was born was also easy; too exhausted to think about sex anyway, and I became sort of inured to going without. Then we moved continents again – this time for my job. This was in 2005. He went to a developing country he had very little appetite for, and gave up his work for my career temporarily, as I did for his before.


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Ironically, overseas his sex drive went up a bit, since he no longer worked regularly. Mine went to an all-time low, as my job was stressful, and I had to cope with being in a new country too. Then we had sex a couple times a month, maybe more, with I sometimes declining. Frankly, I was too tired to count. I often helped myself out rather than ask him, since by this time I had a bit of complex about the whole thing, and sometimes it’s just easier to do that than having to commit to the whole 6-course undertaking.

He hated things over there so much he came home early, and we were separated for 7 months. We reunited over a year ago, and now live in a city we are both strangers to for the sake of my career; it is possible, but more difficult, for him to get a job in his field where we are. He has one but is afraid of losing it again. We are both white-collar go-getters who do want a family-career balance.

He has a lot of resentment built up against me, and sex has gotten rarer once again. We went with none between August and December.


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

One reason I feel so ridiculous is that, like Mark Twain suggested, I’ve literally had to write down my hubby’s complaints against me in bullet points. Otherwise, I forget. There is some egotism here, I own. But also, I would like to think, this insouciance is one reason we work so well together. My husband can be moody, abrupt, and downright rude and impatient when he’s stressed. But since I have a thick skin and a breezy temperament in many ways I didn’t let it bother me. 

I know I need to do better by him. I now work hard to change the things about me he feels resentful for: Finalizing my career move (I do have a job, but without my final career move a lot of things in his life are in limbo); being less self-righteous; don't impose my interests on him; refrain from communication he interprets as attacks; doing more housework; being more patient with our daughter. It’s a bit of an extreme makeover, but I am trying!

Still, sometimes I wonder if we took on too great an incompatibility to ever be able to work this out. Or maybe it’s all me – I suck in bed, which is why he isn’t interested. One survey indicates that ironically it is often the more sexually experienced spouse who loses interest, since they’ve seen all the fireworks and can’t be worked up about the puny Roman Candle they know is all they can expect. (It’s hilarious I am resorting to phallic images, but since Oscar Wilde was into those candles too there can be no harm, can there?)


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Angry Andromeda-

I see my name was mentioned 

I feel really sorry for you. I was writing a book about how men could get more sex from their wives. I wanted to include women, but one of the reasons I did not is that it's so hard to get men to talk about why they don't want sex. Yet, men will complain about their women, and not only that, women will readily tell you why they don't want sex.

So I was able to do all my research by joining forums.

However, I don't think I am going to finish the book. I have found the whole thing so complicated that there is no one single reason - the book would have an impossible layout: Answer these questions, turn to page 7 if you answered A, page 27 if you answered B etc. etc.

One conclusion I have drawn is that men who go off sex are in a "female" mode. So to some extent, you can treat them like women, as far as working out the problem. I have to say, this is just my unproven unresearched theory at the moment.

But... assuming it is correct, lets look at the causes I identified in women.

1)A build up of resentment and blame.

2)Contempt & repulsion

3)Some people can't stand closeness - the book "Mating in Captivity" covers this.

If the problem is 1) it can be made a lot better, by talking etc.

If the problem is 2) Only an ultimatum will work - "help me fix this, or I go" - this may cause the other person to see through the illusion of contempt, in the light of what they are about to loose.

If the problem is 3)... Well, I read the book "mating in Captivity" and the therapy went on for years, so if it were me I would not bother - I would just leave.

I am sex mad, so if I had a wife who would not even discuss it, I would issue an ultimatum, and if that did not work, I would go. I don't believe in marriage without fulfilling sex. What's the point of pledging fidelity to one person, if they don't even want your body?

I notice in your posts - well written by the way - that you have a touch of the "my marriage is perfect in every way except...". I can't take that away from you, but it is a common theme I see around here. I believe that sex is the basis of lifelong mating. People underestimate the power of sex, partly because they deny that we are part of the Animal Kingdom. We think we are so sophisticated. Only our sophistry is sophisticated.


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Thank you for replying, Mr. Clemens  I've found your responses always incisive and extremely valuable. Thank goodness there are some productive social researchers out there. All too often the humanities are weighed down by pretension and inferiority about not being an astrophysicist, and all manners of absurd useless academic antics ensue. (I've been reading Randall Merrill and he has some priceless remarks on that - sorry, tangent.) I am a literature/philosophy aficionado, so my contempt is reserved for the institutions, not the true practitioners as I define them.

You are right about this marriage having a giant hole in it. This is why I am venting on this forum. In fact, my thinking that everything was perfect was part of the problem. It turned out that he was doing a lot more work catering to my needs than I was to his. I did not see it that way at the time, of course. 

So my marriage has a lot of probloems, and I need to drastically revise my version of it. Having said that, my personal choice for now is to stay and try to steer it to where I want it to be, within limits. I accept that he would never want to have sex near the level where I want it. But as he's pointed out to me in our past fights, I am less experienced, more sexually insecure, and often expect him to lead and make things happen. My selfishness showed up between our sheets too! No surprise there. I have to change that, but it's really difficult. (I do feel a bit miffed! Rather than working actively with me, he just threw up his hands! He's had about a dozen sexual partners and a couple of relationships before me. Hardly a depraved Don Juan by European standards, but beats me by miles - two casual sex encounters, one long-term BF, some half-hearted dating, fini.)

So I think his situation is close to 1). Like a lot of women, he's been relatively willing to talk about why he doesn't want to have sex. So there is hope for now.

What I am curious about is, how often do you see his situation? Not that it matters, and I hear you about the infinite variety of the causes for sexless marriages, but I am still curious. You see, his low drive sometimes even had me doubting whether he was gay, since this began in the very beginning when we by definition had not had the time to accumulate much resentment. 

A lot of it has to do with societal expectations - men are supposed to be animals populating the animal kingdom you spoke for so eloquently. He does not fit these stereotypes.


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Here is a case in illustration: when he was nineteen, he once got invited into a room, where a well-endowed German woman was sitting on the bed, topless. The ostensible reason for the invitation was to see the view, which was exactly the same one he could see from his room. He politely admired all the views in sight, and withdrew. He told me that he would not have minded banging her, but was not sure about her intentions and so did not do anything about it. (Now he heartily regrets it! We joke about this incident a lot. I can fully empathize, having turned down so many relationships and sex offers in college because I was shy and emotionally unready.)

So he is controlled and collected. His will has always reined in his loins. Now I've written it down and look it over, it hardly seems an outlandish proposition.

And I just remembered - he's most likely not gay, because I caught him watching hetero porn right before we got married. Pedestrian fare befitting the high bourgeoisie, no gay elements - I accidentally came across his browser history. He had joined me in my feminist condemnation of porn before. It was, interestingly, the only lie I have ever caught him at during the twelve years I have known him. I was very hurt at first, but we talked and I relented. I could see how men are hardwired to need this stuff and it provides much-needed novelty in monogamy. (I know we women would enjoy romantic films even more if there is a lot more soft-core porn in them with sculpted men. Untapped market there.) So he's most likely still watching it. I've accepted that is his private sphere, but now, knowing Mr. Twains's semen retention theory, am beginning to see porn as an encroachment on what is rightfully mine 

Everyone else, please volunteer your thoughts if you had any. You are all experts by definition on this topic!


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

BTW, Mark Twain, you should write that book. The very fact that there are a lot of causes needs to be hammered home. My own single-minded confusion shows that people need a lot of help to wrap their brain around this one. I looked in my local library and there's nothing about sexless marriages - it's always subsumed under the other aspects of the marriage. 

People won't be able to use your book as a car manual as you pointed out, but isn't that the entire point? The causes are more like cancer than a mechanical breakdown in your fridge, and the treatment would be much more complex than just dealing with one issue. Think of it as relieving millions of their involuntary chastity vows - you'll be translated into many languages, and we will all be eternally grateful.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Angry Andromeda said:


> BTW, Mark Twain, you should write that book.
> .
> .
> Think of it as relieving millions of their involuntary chastity vows - you'll be translated into many languages, and we will all be eternally grateful.


Find me a publisher, and I'll think about it.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Angry Andromeda-

You mentioned your being less experienced as being the possible cause. I doubt it. The most sexy thing a woman can be is enthusiastic.

You mentioned porn/semen retention.

The porn can dull the senses - after all you can just about dial up anything the mind can conceive that "her indoors" would never dream off. But it's the solo ejaculations that are the acts that actually rob a woman of the sex she requires.

How often is hubby jerking?


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

I only know of one in Taiwan, unfortunately. But if you have a draft they may be interested!


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Mark Twain, I have no clue how often he jerks off. I've asked him recently and he got upset. He feels that is his private business.

So you think enthusiasm makes up for being sexually out of sync? A lot of women would disagree with that, and if he is more like us and I am more like a man (shudder), then his being turned off would make sense, right?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Angry Andromeda said:


> Mark Twain, I have no clue how often he jerks off. I've asked him recently and he got upset. He feels that is his private business.


Nope, if he is putting you on short rations, and this is the cause, then it _is_ your business. A man has only a limited supply of semen. If he uses it up on himself, there will be none left for you. Once a man has cum, sex is not on his mind until the semen build up. I only cum once per month, so I want sex all day long every day.



Angry Andromeda said:


> So you think enthusiasm makes up for being sexually out of sync?


Please explain the question more fully...



Angry Andromeda said:


> A lot of women would disagree with that,


Please explain...



Angry Andromeda said:


> and if he is more like us and I am more like a man (shudder), then his being turned off would make sense, right?


Geeeez - I brought this on myself I suppose  I will have to think about that one.

If you could amplify every single sentence above, I might be able to understand what you are asking 

You sure can write, I'm loving it!


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Mark Twain, you said before that in a woman enthusiasm would compensate for lack of experience and sexual finesse, and her man should be turned on by that alone. 

I question that premise because many women complain that their husbands act like they are at the Battle of Crecy in bed, charging their cavalry with high courage but little else. They are not in touch with what their wife wants physically or emotionally, and are blinded by their own raw need. I am like these enthusiastic but out-of-touch men. If my husband is sensitive and more like a woman, my enthusiasm would clearly not be enough to turn him on.

I see your point about the semen being goods that belong to me. Do I just try to soften him like you would a woman? Or are there some special levers I can push sexually since he is after all a guy?

Thank you for the compliment - you can push that plume with some aplomb yourself, I might add. I am quite cerebral - although by no means cold and collected, which would have filled the male mold metaphor nicely.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I said he _may _be in the female mode. But I did not say you too have swapped. You seem quite feminine to me 

The fact that he will discuss it is a good thing. It's when no discussion is brooked by the withholding spouse that things get really tough. What are the reasons he gives for not wanting sex with you?

My suggestion is to find his hot button. There must be something that really turns him on. He may have already shown you or told you, but you just ignored it, or ridiculed him, or acted disgusted. On the other hand, you may not know yet. Be flirty, and try different things at random. Let it play on his mind. If the mood is playful, say "I aught to spank your arse" for instance. Watch his response. Give him a slap on the butt. Some guys are really into that.

A guy on another forum taught me a technique he called sexual SONAR. I wrote about it here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/12557-post52.html

As for the solo ejaculations. They have to stop. Jerking away is fine, but there must be no sticky ending. I never do it to completion myself.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

Let me jump in here on several counts. I am a man whose woman does not perform as much as I wish.

Mark has missed two major categories for female lack of performance: medical, and psychological. Both are legitimate and real categories, and both (in most cases) can be overcome.

Quite frankly, I think a book like that would be way too complicated, and overgeneralized. It might require a book for each category, as the degrees and situations are so varied. Some people might get success from an ultimatum, others might need years to help work through issues. Either way, its a rough journey that is indeed worth the attempt, but only up to a certain point.

As far as enthusiasm making up for experience... I think that is more true of women, but only because its more common for women to be the less enthusiastic ones. I have often asserted that the absolute sexiest thing a woman can do in bed is to WANT to BE there!

During some of my worst phases, I would wait months for sex, and when it finally happened, her attitude was "lets get this over with". Lucky for me things improved, but I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I fondly remember the times when she was all over me -- like she had a hunger. It didn't matter what we did, because it was all hot. Even if later on in a relationship, one partner is just doing it "to make the other happy", so long as that want is present, that is something good too.

As far as the retention thing, I know mark has had incredible success with it, but I do not believe it solves every problem regarding lack. If the sex is happening, but not satisfying, then its probably a good solution. But if there is no sex to speak of, then it may not make a difference.

Plus, it depends on who is the lower-drive person. In Marks case, he was both practitioner AND high-drive. In your case, your man is the low-drive person, so it would be interesting to hear your results.

Yes, it always breaks mens hearts to hear women come to this forum and say "I want it several times a week and my man doesn't care". Many men would trade places with him in an instant.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Chopblock said:


> Let me jump in here on several counts. I am a man whose woman does not perform as much as I wish.
> 
> Mark has missed two major categories for female lack of performance: medical, and psychological. Both are legitimate and real categories, and both (in most cases) can be overcome.


You are correct. I miss them out because they are more rare than the medical community would have you believe. Women mostly go off sex due to resentment, and sometimes because they are having an affair. Of course the affair is often itself brought on or internally justify because of resentment.

However, health "experts" have been wrongly telling us, that women go off sex for medical reasons. Or that it's normal for marriages to loose passion after the first X years. Yes it is normal, but it's only due to ignorance in the area of how to keep things sweet, and how to defuse resentments as soon as they arise. This in turn requires a sensitivity to notice the resentment as soon as it is created. For me semen retention help with this last bit. I can feel the tone of our relationship more keenly.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

Well until we have some concrete reliable studies, we'll have to agree to disagree on how rare medical/psychological is.

I agree with you on the resentments building thing. Sometimes people even discover that they are both resentful over the same thing (ie: she resents that she has to nag to get him to do chores, and he resents that she nags him, so he resists doing chores).

Funny really...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Chopblock said:


> Well until we have some concrete reliable studies, we'll have to agree to disagree on how rare medical/psychological is.


The information is out there. I have read most of the threads on this site for the last six months, and quite a few historic ones that were written before I joined. On top of that I have read other forums and web content.

What I come across time and time again, is "I had my hormones checked and they were normal". The poor woman is pushed in that direction, even though deep down she knows about the resentment. The medical establishment is trying to say there is more wrong with women than there really is. Women are simply more complex than a shot of testosterone. But that is good news. Treat them right and they respond.

The women who have persistent hormonal or psychological problems stick out like a sore thumb. But in my research they are in the minority. What is not in short supply is the ignorance of young married couples. Some grope their way back to the light over 20 years, others never make it that far.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Angry Andromeda said:


> Mark Twain, you said before that in a woman enthusiasm would compensate for lack of experience and sexual finesse, and her man should be turned on by that alone.
> 
> I question that premise because many women complain that their husbands act like they are at the Battle of Crecy in bed, charging their cavalry with high courage but little else. They are not in touch with what their wife wants physically or emotionally, and are blinded by their own raw need. I am like these enthusiastic but out-of-touch men. If my husband is sensitive and more like a woman, my enthusiasm would clearly not be enough to turn him on.


I think for both men and women, it goes beyond enthusiasm or simply the desire for sex but rather enthusiasm or hunger for their spouse and wanting to please them. This is where lack of experience matters less than the confidence to take the lead anyway.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

swedish said:


> I think for both men and women, it goes beyond enthusiasm or simply the desire for sex but rather enthusiasm or hunger for their spouse and wanting to please them. This is where lack of experience matters less than the confidence to take the lead anyway.


Thanyou *Swedish*, this is _exactly_ what I meant.


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## big dave (Dec 31, 2008)

Angry it may not be you at all just talk with him because i am in a situation where i was not having sex alot with my wife and it was me not feeling like i was satisfying her and men do not want to feel rejected so we just pull away. I have been dignosed with a low level depression so you may want to check that out but most importantly please talk with him about this and let him know that it always feels great no matter what and i think things will improve.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Based on what you've shared here, a few thoughts come to mind:


His sex drive may very well be normal but he may prefer masturbating vs. sex.
He has hinted that sex is not fulfilling. If that is the case, it is easier to satisfy his sexual needs by himself than pleasing you both in bed.
If this is accurate, it may not take much for you both to have a fulfilling sex life, providing it's what you both want.

You mention that you are working on yourself as far as being self-righteous and communicating so he doesn't feel attacked. These changes might be critical in getting him comfortable talking about your sex life. If he can openly talk about what his ideal sex life would look like, without any fear of putting you on the defensive or hurting your feelings, you will have a spring board to work from.

If you took yourself out of the picture for a minute (meaning your own sexual wants) and picture giving him a full body massage...followed by pleasing him...how do you think he would respond? If you think he would love it, he would most likely be ready and willing to return the favor.


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