# Is this low self-esteem?



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Someone mentioned in another thread that perhaps I need counciling after my divorce to help build back my confidence and self-esteem back in case i want to date again. That could be correct; at this point, I can't brush off any advice. However, I feel like I'm just a realist. I think after 43 years of living, I know who I am as well or better than most people I encounter.

Isn't there a difference between not having confidence and just being a realist. I realize that most women just aren't interested in a calm, laid back guy who doesn't have a strong opinion on politics or sports, guy who would rather sit on the porch at night and listen to the crickets rather than be at an event in town, or a guy who likes to relax on weekends rather than have a full schedule. 

For example, if a person knows they are not gifted in singing and, therefore, does not try out for "American Idol," isn't that just being realistic rather than having low self esteem?

I found a clip from "The Andy Griffith Show" that would show how I would feel on a date with most women. Andy is a person who is very confident and happy with himself, but he just "is who he is" and doesn't put on a show. Please start watching at around 4:00 where he is in the restaurant and you'll see me on a date. I'm not saying I act exactly like him, but It's how I would feel my compatibility would be with most women.

‪The Andy Griffith Show (S3E02) - Andy's Rich Girlfriend(2/3)‬‏ - YouTube


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I can relate, my W left with the kind parting words (to the effect in my head of): "You'll find some lazy azz girl that enjoys doting on your sorry self, and will be fine going with you nowhere in life, but if not I don't care because I'm going to be the most amazing person in the world and am going to have my own reality TV show and find the perfect guy that gives me everything and is super cool and does everything and honors me by making me his queen"

(ok that is nowhere near what the actual words were, but I could sorta read what she was thinking, I'm actually quite good at it)

I think it is important to be realist, but that also means that realizing an ordinary life is quite extraordinary. Be proud to belong in this world, and though not everyone can be the king we can be kings of whatever we choose to make into our kingdom.

The IC I go to really focusses on the mind-body thing, I was somewhat skeptical but decided it is better than just talking things out, and I really have found a tangible, practical strength using the "Hakomi method" It really takes work to get your self-esteem going in the right direction again, for me I wanted to for so long I just had to let go a little.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Boy, this thread has hit home! I always felt as though I was a realist and an introvert.....and content. My life has been nothing but stress since 2006. As a result, I have found that I have become further withdrawn from society in recent years.

I recently saw a psychologist for in depth testing at the insistence of my therapist. After having 8 hours of testing, I was quiet shocked at the results. The testing revealed that my self-esteem was extremely low and that carried through to many other aspects of every day life. In addition, depression and anxiety were also big factors. My therapist was quite shocked because I presented no outward signs of those problems. Apparently I have been silently carrying the huge burden. 

At least now I KNOW what it's going to take to repair "Humpty Dumpty". Unfortunately some of the "stress" damage will be permanent for me. You may want to get a serious evaluation, so that you can be an even better person than you imagined. The lesson I learned from all of this is that sometimes we even lie to ourselves to lessen the pain.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

There is a big difference between being happy as a homebody and not having an interest in much. Like 827Aug mentioned, maybe you have low-level depression.

You also say that most women won't like a laid back guy. That is pretty negative thinking. Women like men who are kind and confident and who are comfortable in their own skin. Sometimes the guys who make the most noise are the most insecure of all.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

827Aug said:


> Boy, this thread has hit home! I always felt as though I was a realist and an introvert.....and content. My life has been nothing but stress since 2006. As a result, I have found that I have become further withdrawn from society in recent years.
> 
> I recently saw a psychologist for in depth testing at the insistence of my therapist. After having 8 hours of testing, I was quiet shocked at the results. The testing revealed that my self-esteem was extremely low and that carried through to many other aspects of every day life. In addition, depression and anxiety were also big factors. My therapist was quite shocked because I presented no outward signs of those problems. Apparently I have been silently carrying the huge burden.
> 
> At least now I KNOW what it's going to take to repair "Humpty Dumpty". Unfortunately some of the "stress" damage will be permanent for me. You may want to get a serious evaluation, so that you can be an even better person than you imagined. The lesson I learned from all of this is that sometimes we even lie to ourselves to lessen the pain.


Hmm, interesting. I never thought of that. I feel i have self esteem, but I could be wrong. I have confidence at my job because I do a good job and get good reports. I have no trouble being in crowds in general. In other words, some people hate walking into a crowded arena or having to get up and walk in front of everybody to go get a hot dog; I'm not like that, I couldn't care less. 

I feel a bit awkward around people in social situations sometimes because I don't usually have a lot in common with them. When people start talking about sport or politics, I just have to mumble a bit and sit there.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

southbound said:


> Hmm, interesting. I never thought of that. I feel i have self esteem, but I could be wrong. I have confidence at my job because I do a good job and get good reports. I have no trouble being in crowds in general. In other words, some people hate walking into a crowded arena or having to get up and walk in front of everybody to go get a hot dog; I'm not like that, I couldn't care less.
> 
> I feel a bit awkward around people in social situations sometimes because I don't usually have a lot in common with them. When people start talking about sport or politics, I just have to mumble a bit and sit there.



Same here. I have even shown horses at the national level and had to go out alone before three judges. I think we all have areas we are extremely confident in, but can still suffer from a low self-esteem. That was puzzling my therapist as well. 

Anyway, after a two hour consultation with the psychologist (& therapist) my eyes were opened. The statement which you made in your initial post may be an indication. "I realize that most women just aren't interested.....". I was guilty of making statements similar to that too. Without realizing it, it shows insecurity and a need to justify current behavior. It's going to be a tough habit for me to kick! 

If I remember correctly you were also a victim of a cheating spouse who decided the grass was greener on the other side of the fence. Those of us who go through this can end up with a lot of phycological baggage. I now see that. Deep down it is a blow to one's self-esteem because we feel second best many times. Seeing a therapist has been a blessing for me. You may want to give that a try.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Wow what a waste all these Famous Last Words are. I'd smile, get up from the table and walk out w/o a word.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

If you are OK with who you are, then you are OK. 

There are many women who would love a laid-back guy.... it's not a negative thing. So, just change up your thinking a bit and see your character traits as a strong point! Look at the positives!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Wow what a waste all these Famous Last Words are. I'd smile, get up from the table and walk out w/o a word.


What do you mean? Waste?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Dunno all these speeches I see people practicing in their mind for that Great Last Moment. (shakes fist at offending party and screams "You'll be sorry! You'll ALL be sorry!!!!") What LON said made me think of that - "...with the parting words..."


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ah yes, it is quite funny how they paint reality when they decide to smash their spouse's soul. Anyways, she can have fun with that, I'm in this for the long haul and when I'm retired in my mansion, in my silk housecoat with young pretty playmates splashing in one of my many pools I will have the last laugh.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Southbound I think you should consider some counseling (if you can find a good one that is). My reasons are 1) everyone could use some 2) you don't yet know your worth and 3) you are still trying to blame yourself for your divorce.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Southbound
To answer your question, No I don't see a self esteem issue.
If you like yourself, and are comfortable being you then don't change. Find a woman you are compatible with.

I love Andy, wish more men were like him. Honest, you get what you see. He isn't trying to be something he's not. He's true to his beliefs.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Southbound I think you should consider some counseling (if you can find a good one that is). My reasons are 1) everyone could use some 2) you don't yet know your worth and 3) you are still trying to blame yourself for your divorce.


That probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

As for the blame, I see it similar to this:

I bought some kind of ever-blooming petunia one year because I saw they looked nice on everyone else's porch. I hung it up, watered it regularly, and it looked like crap all year. After the season, someone informed me that the old blooms are supposed to be pinched off to keep it looking good all year, which i didn't do. I just treated it like all the other flowers we had that looked great.

It's not like I hung the plant and never watered it or beat it with a stick every day, but if i had just had enough sense to ask someone or research the flower and perform that one simple act, it would have flourished. It was an "Ah Ha" moment that seemed simple, and it made me feel silly because apparently everyone else knew, they had beautiful flowers. I guess i just assumed that mine wasn't doing well and it was just one of those things I suppose. 

So, am i to blame for the flower? Well, I didn't do anything bad intentionally, but the flower had needs and I didn't meet them. :scratchhead:


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

southbound said:


> It was an "Ah Ha" moment that seemed simple, and it made me feel silly because apparently everyone else knew, they had beautiful flowers.


I'm sure some of your neighbors have had flowers that looked like crap at some point too, until someone told them what to do, just like they told you after it was too late. If you planted these flowers again, you'd be more equipped. Your porch will then have petunias that bloom all year. You'll be sitting on your porch admiring them, listening to the crickets and out of the corner of your eye, you'll notice the new neighbor across the street scratching his head and looking at his crappy-looking petunias.

This is why all of this stuff is a learning process. You're not expected to just know it. You now know more about petunias than you did the year before. Maybe you'll decide to grow different flowers on the porch. Maybe they'll thrive and maybe they won't - but again you'll learn something.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

The problem was unbeknownst to you that ever blooming petunia you bought had it's roots in gravel just underneath the soil. So even if you did pinch those blooms off just like you were supposed to it still would have died.

This wasn't your fault. And no amount of research could have changed that.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Laurae1967 said:


> There is a big difference between being happy as a homebody and not having an interest in much. Like 827Aug mentioned, maybe you have low-level depression.
> 
> You also say that most women won't like a laid back guy. That is pretty negative thinking. Women like men who are kind and confident and who are comfortable in their own skin. Sometimes the guys who make the most noise are the most insecure of all.


I can't seem to find a woman who likes a laid back guy. Other than just having a calm personality, I also mean a guy doesn't "look" for something to do and doesn't have to be busy, busy, busy all the time. Here would be my typical routine. I go to work. When I come in, I like to eat supper at some point and then kick back and watch a little tv. If there are any chores that need attending to, such as mowing the lawn, or whatever, I do it, but I don't have to be in a buzz all the time.

I know a lot of women who can't stand to sit on the couch long enough to even watch a movie; they have to be doing something. 

I attended a work-party last night, and I observed the women there. They were all married, but I just thought how none of them would fit my personality. They were all talking about vacations, their swimming pools, house renovations, their "on the go" lifestyle, and I thought how none of those women would be interested in a guy like me. Too boring for the modern woman.:sleeping:It's easy to tell someone that they will find somebody, and in theory, that makes sense, but in reality, I don't see it.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

What you need to do is educate yourself on introverted women. You know where to find us, where we hang out, what we like to do, where we tend to work, etc. We are out there but since we aren't "on the go" you won't likely find us at a work party unless we are forced to go. And even if forced to go we make an appearance, hide in a corner and are gone before you even notice. And many of us "pretend" to be on the go just to fit in but if you observe us there are clues that it's not who we really are. 

There are many women who loathe "on the go" lifestyles. I should know as I'm one of them. I don't find it boring at all I find it peaceful and necessary for my sanity. 

There is a woman out there for you but you are going to have to rethink how you find her. Just picture her sitting at home, happily reading a book wishing that she could find a nice guy like you that wants to kick back and watch life go by.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

SB--anyone going through/at the end of a divorce takes a beating to their self-confidence. It's part of the entire package deal. You feel l ike "What's wrong with me?" "I am a failure cause my marriage couldn't stay together?" "Will I meet someone else?" all normal.

My advice is to NOT DATE right now., You are still mourning/grieving/questioning your ex-wife and divorce and dhow it came to be. All good things to go through but you are not emotinally ready to date right now. It would not be fair to you or any woman you ask out. You are still in love with the ghost of your ex and trying to piece everything together (what happened w/ her and your marriage).

Work on you. Date you. Be happy before you can be with anyone else.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

South:

Cut it with those negative waves, man! There is someone for everyone. I never thought my 250 lb 5'5" hairy backed brother-in-law would find anyone, but my sister-in-law loves his easy-going ways because he lets her be in charge. My daughter is bi-polar and drove me crazy during her teen years. Now she has found a very tolerant man who loves the drama of her mood swings, and loves being a hero by calming her down.

Don't give up; don't stereotype yourself and all women. You never know until you give a woman a chance what she will like about you. I am an English major married for 34 years to an engineer. Go figure! You want someone to complement you, not be your clone.

Give a woman a chance that you don't think fits your profile of the ideal partner. I did, and that has made all the difference.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> I attended a work-party last night, and I observed the women there. They were all married, but I just thought how none of them would fit my personality. They were all talking about vacations, their swimming pools, house renovations, their "on the go" lifestyle, and I thought how none of those women would be interested in a guy like me. Too boring for the modern woman.:sleeping:It's easy to tell someone that they will find somebody, and in theory, that makes sense, but in reality, I don't see it. [/COLOR]


1st of all, you are at a *party*-When are people NOT trying to "impress" to some degree - when at a gathering & communication is flying ? Kinda like going to a School ReUnion, each seeking to see what the other has been up too, who had the most exciting vacation, traveling experience, biggest house, newest gadgets, what our kids are doing. Do you REALLY think their life is as exciting as they go on -everyday? I seriously doubt it. They may have "all that" but be suffering in thier marriage -because of that very busyness. 

It is like Facebook, so many get on there and talk about every whirlwind thing they do, where they are going, who they are seeing - I firmly believe it is to IMPRESS much of the time. Alot of those people are struggling inside with insecurities themselves & feel the need to put that out there --- or they may be so busy busy busy, they do not even have time to watch a good old fashioned movie. 

Believe me, it has it's price, so the most they have left is to talk about how BUSY they are , as they are not taking the time to smell those roses in their own back yard. 

Of coarse not all feel that way -but to assume that your type are not out there. Naaahhhhh . They are ! 

My husband is just like you, LOVE HIM THAT WAY! If he was someone who wanted to run all the darn time, It would get on my nerves. (we do enough of that for our kids!) He is not insecure, *he is just a HOMEBUDDY*. He has humor, he heartily enjoys being at home, it is RELAXING to him, it IS his abode. And I feel the same. Of coarse it helps if you love where you live, If I lived in the city I doubt I would want to be home this much. 

And trust me , I am full of enthusiam about MANY MANY things , even if I do yak on TAm half the day and don't get out as much as my neighbor. She may have more EXCITEMENT in comparison but that does not make her more Happy -at peace with her life. 

It might make me a little Hillbillyish in comparison (LIke Andy in that clip) but hey, so long as you have the ability to laugh about it , so what ! If you are comfortable in your own skin, how valuable is this in life. My husband is always laughing about not liking people all that much -probably cause he doesn't feel he relates to many. But he could care less at the same time ....... So long as you got each other, some friends who love & understand you, a roof over your head , food to fill your bellies, some kids to add a little chaos, and some marshmellows on a stick for a bonfire, throw in a movie, some affection & good sex, Life is Grand. 

It really is an ATTITUDE. 

The question is -- are you happy? Do not worry about what others think of you, BE who you are before them. If you even try to be someone else to impress, you have laid the wrong foundation in that relationship. 










Generally another "homebuddy" is going to appreciate you, they will understand your contentment just "hanging around". Then look for those compatable Love languages, and if you can laugh together & with each other. That is all it takes. 

Many of these women you are viewing may even want to be at home more, but they have been conditioned to keep "acheiving" since their teens, that is all they know, then they grow up & feel the need to compete with their friends in vacations, in success, in being the best soccor mom, you name it ...and in doing so have added MORE stress into their lives. 

I absolutely LOVE this quote


Lon said:


> I think it is important to be realist, but that also means that realizing an ordinary life is quite extraordinary. Be proud to belong in this world, and though not everyone can be the king we can be kings of whatever we choose to make into our kingdom.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Great post SimplyAmorous! I hope Southbound takes it to heart.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> South:
> 
> Cut it with those negative waves, man! There is someone for everyone. I never thought my 250 lb 5'5" hairy backed brother-in-law would find anyone, but my sister-in-law loves his easy-going ways because he lets her be in charge. My daughter is bi-polar and drove me crazy during her teen years. Now she has found a very tolerant man who loves the drama of her mood swings, and loves being a hero by calming her down.


That's a positive example for sure! I have, however, a brother who is 6 foot, 190 pounds of lean muscle, is good looking, has a good job and a great personality, yet he is 37 and not married. He has dated, but never even been in a serious relationship, and nobody can tell us why. Everybody seems stunned that women aren't flogging him, yet anyone who is available doesn't seem too interested for long. 

As he has said, everybody says there is someone out there, but it would nice to find them before age 90. 

We had a female cousin, for example, come in from the "big city". She is attractive and modern, and she was absolutely floored that he didn't do well in relationships; that was all she talked about. 




lovesherman said:


> Don't give up; don't stereotype yourself and all women. You never know until you give a woman a chance what she will like about you. I am an English major married for 34 years to an engineer. Go figure! You want someone to complement you, not be your clone.


True, but the similarity I see there is that you are both college educated and probably career minded. It's not like you're an English major and he dropped out in 8th grade and runs a lemonade stand.

I think i could handle a different personality in a woman, I'm just not sure they could handle me. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> 1st of all, you are at a *party*-When are people NOT trying to "impress" to some degree - when at a gathering & communication is flying ? Kinda like going to a School ReUnion, each seeking to see what the other has been up too, who had the most exciting vacation, traveling experience, biggest house, newest gadgets, what our kids are doing. Do you REALLY think their life is as exciting as they go on -everyday? I seriously doubt it. They may have "all that" but be suffering in thier marriage -because of that very busyness.


True, and good point. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> It is like Facebook, so many get on there and talk about every whirlwind thing they do, where they are going, who they are seeing - I firmly believe it is to IMPRESS much of the time. Alot of those people are struggling inside with insecurities themselves & feel the need to put that out there --- or they may be so busy busy busy, they do not even have time to watch a good old fashioned movie.


True. There are those people who are always posting, "Life is good," or "Had another glorious day with the family."



SimplyAmorous said:


> Many of these women you are viewing may even want to be at home more, but they have been conditioned to keep "acheiving" since their teens, that is all they know, then they grow up & feel the need to compete with their friends in vacations, in success, in being the best soccor mom, you name it ...and in doing so have added MORE stress into their lives.


That's probably true. I've noticed that once that lifestyle is drilled in, however, there is usually no turning back.



SimplyAmorous said:


> And trust me , I am full of enthusiam about MANY MANY things , even if I do yak on TAm half the day and don't get out as much as my neighbor. She may have more EXCITEMENT in comparison but that does not make her more Happy -at peace with her life.


I'm not sure I have many, many, interests outside of everyday life though; however, I have always been that way, it's not something that has hit me in the last few years. I'm not the stereotypical anything either.
I like working out, but I'm not a gym nut and a calorie counter. I like music, but most women don't get too excited talking about Johnny Cash and Billboard. I like going to concerts, but the idea of attending a Charlie Pride or Merle Haggard performance doesn't usually get women to quivering.




magnoliagal said:


> What you need to do is educate yourself on introverted women. You know where to find us, where we hang out, what we like to do, where we tend to work, etc. We are out there but since we aren't "on the go" you won't likely find us at a work party unless we are forced to go. And even if forced to go we make an appearance, hide in a corner and are gone before you even notice. And many of us "pretend" to be on the go just to fit in but if you observe us there are clues that it's not who we really are.
> 
> There are many women who loathe "on the go" lifestyles. I should know as I'm one of them. I don't find it boring at all I find it peaceful and necessary for my sanity.
> 
> There is a woman out there for you but you are going to have to rethink how you find her. Just picture her sitting at home, happily reading a book wishing that she could find a nice guy like you that wants to kick back and watch life go by.


Good point, but I don't know where to find these homebody's unless I start going door to door.

I joined E-Harmony just for kicks. I'm not a paying customer and haven't made any contacts, I just did it for kicks. I have been on for weeks and only have 3 matches.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I know South, I get it. We are trying to get you to be hopeful and confident about your prospects for a new relationship because that is what is attractive to the opposite sex. If we were all realists about our situation, who would ever get married or have children? There are so many obstacles to a good relationship, and it is so difficult to be a good parent. But that is what makes life worth living, so we are optimistic that it will work despite the odds.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> I know South, I get it. We are trying to get you to be hopeful and confident about your prospects for a new relationship because that is what is attractive to the opposite sex. If we were all realists about our situation, who would ever get married or have children? There are so many obstacles to a good relationship, and it is so difficult to be a good parent. But that is what makes life worth living, so we are optimistic that it will work despite the odds.


I'm glad you at least understand where I'm coming from. I appreciate all the comments and advice. When I come back with something, I'm not trying to say that what that poster said was wrong, I'm just trying to present all sides.

I've learned in my job that there are textbook ways of doing things, and then there is reality. A scientist can grow a corn stalk in a lab, study it, and then write a book about all the dos and don't of raising a great corn crop, but it's not going to work exactly that way when the farmer plants 20 acres of corn on his farm. I think it's the same with relationships. 

For example, I had a thread once asking if lack of material things was a turn off to women, such as not having the greatest car in the world or a shabby house. Everyone responded and assured me it was no big deal as long as there were other positives with the man. But where are the nice women in real life who feel this way? So far, I haven't had any lined up at the door. 

Here's the thing, I have no doubt that I could get dates, anybody can get dates, but would it be someone I could connect with? On the inside, I feel like I would be a good catch, but on the outside, I'm laid back, live in a not so great house and drive a ten year old vehicle that still has a cassette player for goodness sakes. I don't know any women that would get chills down their spine when exposed to that.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

One more comment. Know what gives me chills down my spine? My husband who loves me for who I am. I am short, not skinny, technologically illiterate, socially inept, and fearful. But I adore my husband, give him tons of respect, admiration, and we are fabulous in the sack together.

Give it time. She is out there.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> Good point, but I don't know where to find these homebody's unless I start going door to door.
> 
> I joined E-Harmony just for kicks. I'm not a paying customer and haven't made any contacts, I just did it for kicks. I have been on for weeks and only have 3 matches.


But are YOU actively looking, reading the profiles too- pming THEM TO SHOW some interest, asking some questions? You sure do that well on here ! See those profile listings are what gets the hits, many *exaggerate* in these too, making themselves sound so interesting, exciting , once you start dating, you will see what a load or crap that is. 

It is accaully quite RARE in life to find someone who doesn't do all that Bsing to get noticed. But these are the rare gems. At least I think so. 

Hey Southbound, our newest vehicle is 14 yrs old ! And I wouldn't have it any other way. 2 of our vehicles have cassette players- I use that thing with a cord to hook into my Ipod -- Hey, still gives me the music I want. Good enough for me. A man responsible with his money is worth gold. I would probably kick & scream if my husband wanted to waste his $$ on a new car, driving that thing off the lot is like flushing $4,000 down the toilet. 


I have heard enough about your brother to guess that he also is NOT putting himself out there, he is not showing *enough* "passionate interest" in these women, he has an "I can take them or leave them" attitude >>>> I am sure a woman can FEEL this and she craves more, so she moves on, as let's face it, we all want to be lavishly cherished like no other and feel that addictive lust and need for us, especially in NEW relationships. Yes, that is what women want. I would be demanding in that area, but all these other things would mean little to me. 

Your brother is content, he is not really looking. Things can fall into our laps but probably more if you have a busy body friend who wants to match make you. We need to be pro-active, put ourselves out there, not be afraid to take risks, even if you get hurt along the way. I don't think your brother cares enough. 

You probably don't either right now, and that is OK too! YOU gotta figure out what you want in life. This idea no women will "appreciate" your type, well that just means you have to search harder and more diligently to find her, be more Pro-active , that's all. 

Read those profiles closely, pick out certain things they say, ask them questions about it. Starting something for kicks can still lead to something great. The more communication you get going, the more you will meet, line 'em up in your area, should be fun exploring , having this new freedom, and all the things you learned on here to help you along the way. 

YOu dont have to like the same music. When I 1st met my husband he liked soft rock, I was into heavy Metal, it was all good, that is what ear buds & Ipods are for today. 

Going to round up my kids & going out to pick berries in my back yard now!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> One more comment. Know what gives me chills down my spine? My husband who loves me for who I am. I am short, not skinny, technologically illiterate, socially inept, and fearful. But I adore my husband, give him tons of respect, admiration, and we are fabulous in the sack together.
> 
> Give it time. She is out there.


That sounds good to me.

Something else that is a bit of an ego buster in my situation is this: 

She came from a very poor family. She would often tell me about how embarrassed she was growing up with the clothes she wore. Her family always led her to believe that she would never have anything material wise. I had similar upbringing, but we did have a little money, even though we didn't look like it. She never attended college and has a blue collar job. I was attending college when we met and currently have a white collar job. She admitted she had low self esteem and never had any huge dreams and seemed content with just us in the beginning. I think we could have lived in a house with no electricity in the beginning and she would have been ok with it. 

In a short while, we became financially stable and eventually built a nice home, which she adored, and were able to have at least one nice vehicle. we never had to worry about money mainly due to my income, yet SHE DIVORCED ME?

Even with someone like her, apparently my dullness drove her over the edge. I feel like if I couldn't keep a woman like her happy, what would I do with a woman who actually did have a little fire in their bones?


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Hmmm. I wonder if it really was your "dullness." It sounds like you two just lost passion for each other. Did you ever figure out what her emotional needs were? What did you do to meet these? Did you two spend at least 15 hours a week together doing things that you enjoyed? Did you tell her what your needs were, and how she could meet them? 

You sound like such a great guy, and I hope that you learned a lot about yourself that you can take into your next relationship.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Hey Southbound, our newest vehicle is 14 yrs old ! And I wouldn't have it any other way. 2 of our vehicles have cassette players- I use that thing with a cord to hook into my Ipod -- Hey, still gives me the music I want. Good enough for me. A man responsible with his money is worth gold. I would probably kick & scream if my husband wanted to waste his $$ on a new car, driving that thing off the lot is like flushing $4,000 down the toilet.


SimplyAmorous, I'm sure you would agree, however, that there are not too many women with your attitude about such things.




lovesherman said:


> Hmmm. I wonder if it really was your "dullness." It sounds like you two just lost passion for each other. Did you ever figure out what her emotional needs were? What did you do to meet these? Did you two spend at least 15 hours a week together doing things that you enjoyed? Did you tell her what your needs were, and how she could meet them?
> 
> You sound like such a great guy, and I hope that you learned a lot about yourself that you can take into your next relationship.


It was probably my dullness that caused her to lose passion for me. Thanks for the compliment, and yes, I am learning a lot.


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## grendelsmom (Aug 1, 2011)

It's funny, but the way you describe yourself sounds like literally every husband I've ever known, except my own. You're a type-B personality. There are plenty of them out there. Where do you live? I live in rural Ohio, and I can tell you, what you describe is precisely the way people around here live. I've lived in places where people were always on the go, and I felt like a fish out of water there. Maybe it's partly a regional issue.

I've known men who've brought their wives from rags-to-riches and the wives have left them. Who knows why? I doubt it was dullness, though. I think it's more a matter of someone who is always pursuing something "better" because she isn't happy in her own skin.

I spent two decades looking for a man to marry, and in that time I was on various dating/sex sites. I came to some conclusions from this experience: 1) it's easy for women to get sex, 2) it's easy for men to get a relationship, and 3) if one doesn't work out, there is always another coming right down the pike. There are just so many women out there looking for a man to treat them right. Look at how many put up with intolerable situations just to keep "love." If you are willing to fish in the appropriate pond (which is where many men go wrong, imo--they think they "deserve" someone younger and better-looking than they are, for some reason), and you treat a woman right, as it sounds like you will, I would think you'd have your choice of women. Of course, if you would rather believe you don't, you can sit alone and ponder why you are so unworthy. 

But that isn't a lot of fun.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

grendelsmom said:


> I spent two decades looking for a man to marry, and in that time I was on various dating/sex sites. I came to some conclusions from this experience: 1) it's easy for women to get sex, 2) it's easy for men to get a relationship, and 3) if one doesn't work out, there is always another coming right down the pike. There are just so many women out there looking for a man to treat them right. Look at how many put up with intolerable situations just to keep "love." If you are willing to fish in the appropriate pond (which is where many men go wrong, imo--they think they "deserve" someone younger and better-looking than they are, for some reason), and you treat a woman right, as it sounds like you will, I would think you'd have your choice of women. Of course, if you would rather believe you don't, you can sit alone and ponder why you are so unworthy.


I agree with this very much. After Bad relationships/Marraiges -statistically Men have NO desire to marry again, too much hassle, not worth the financial risk -so they just "use" the women for sex. But women want MORE than that - You would be the rare bird not interested in playing like that but more like this quote :













> It was probably my dullness that caused her to lose passion for me. Thanks for the compliment, and yes, I am learning a lot.


 Do *you* really feel you are DULL -at your core ? Do you not genuinelly "like" who you are ? 

Wasn't it more like this.... There WAS passion in the beginning of your marraige, like you said she could have loved & lived with you , been happy -even with no electricity (love was free flowing back then, dopamine rushing, it was all about you & her)-- so you HAD IT , SHE HAD IT ................

THEN.....you & her lost communication over the years- a slight here, a slight there, neither of you making an issue out of it- she was not meeting your needs, she felt you was not meeting hers, more time spent alone & instead of showing some FIRE about it (conflict), you retreated, and fell into the whole "Mr Nice Guy" routine feeling love is unconditional " I would never leave her anyway --I CAN PUT UP WITH THIS" .....this was your belief -but what happened in this process is - YOU lost the spark for her, she undeniably FELT THIS, which yes, can become very "dull". 

Maybe you do need to find yourself again and not be ashamed of what you *REALLY WANT IN LIFE*, in a woman, even if you feel it may be a little *SELFISH,* which is probably going against the way you "think" in many respects. Don't be afraid of being a little selfish. MY husband is alot like you- this sounds a little rediculous, but I have had accual arguments with the man to BE MORE SELFISH !! 


I think we can all be "repressed" in some areas if we feel they are "wrong" or inconsiderate of others. But fighting for your own wants & needs in a relationship is accually a very *passionate* thing to do! It is NOT DULL. 

That has more to do with being "satisfied" in a relationship and not being afriad to stand up for what you want.

But being Old Fashioned, being Different, going against the "worldly" grain, that just shows *individuality*. I respect people like that more so. BUt yes-like you said, I am likely not the norm, my husband tells me all the time , I am "one in a millionare" & there is not another woman like me in all the world. He is always building my ego, I say the same about him. 

You just need to find that lady who will see you for the unique man you are. BUt this time around, fight for what you want in all ways. Weed them out as you meet them, don't settle for less than what *YOU* want, what you know is going to work for you & your family, your future. Don't worry about whether you measure up to them, as you know in your heart you are a good man and have much to offer. They need to measure up to you (too). 

If you feel you have something VALUABLE to offer these women, this is the key! If you don't, then yes, maybe some counseling WILL do you some good. Or finding that side of yourself you lost many years ago.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Wow, South, SimplyAmorous hit it out of the ballpark with her response. Print it up, put copies on your refrigerator and your mirror, and read it over and over until it sinks into your consciousness.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

827Aug said:


> Boy, this thread has hit home! I always felt as though I was a realist and an introvert.....and content. My life has been nothing but stress since 2006. As a result, I have found that I have become further withdrawn from society in recent years.
> 
> I recently saw a psychologist for in depth testing at the insistence of my therapist. After having 8 hours of testing, I was quiet shocked at the results. The testing revealed that my self-esteem was extremely low and that carried through to many other aspects of every day life. In addition, depression and anxiety were also big factors. My therapist was quite shocked because I presented no outward signs of those problems. Apparently I have been silently carrying the huge burden.
> 
> At least now I KNOW what it's going to take to repair "Humpty Dumpty". Unfortunately some of the "stress" damage will be permanent for me. You may want to get a serious evaluation, so that you can be an even better person than you imagined. The lesson I learned from all of this is that sometimes we even lie to ourselves to lessen the pain.


My take is good luck!! I've suffered with SA since 1-2nd grade if anything.g its worse now then ever and I don't see it improving as I go from mid life to elderly. 
I can act social and play the game because we live in a social society, there is family, coworkers, etc.

But every fiber in me would rather just be alone or with my wife than doing anything social. Maybe you'll have better luck with a true cure vs a ability to just lie so to speak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

SimplyAmoruous, BEST POST I'VE EVER READ!!!

Thank you!


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## Mike188 (Dec 29, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> After Bad relationships/Marraiges -statistically Men have NO desire to marry again, too much hassle, not worth the financial risk -so they just "use" the women for sex.



Where do I sign up for this type of relationship?


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## Larrelye (Aug 1, 2011)

SouthBound: You would be perfect for me if I were not already married. My children are nearly grown. My hobbies keep me at home and in my yard. And believe it or not I'm 30 something and attractive! It seems to me you are allowing yourself to fall into a state of depression. Is it low self esteem? You tell me. Everyone on here has offered encouragement and support and many say that they ARE interested in a man like you but yet you repeatedly come back with "No. No one's gonna be interested in me because I'm DULL." Well. Sit home and be dull and depressed or sit home and enjoy the life that YOU enjoy and not what you THINK some random fictional woman wants. Hell! Women don't know what they want! How the heck would you know!?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

grendelsmom said:


> It's funny, but the way you describe yourself sounds like literally every husband I've ever known, except my own. You're a type-B personality. There are plenty of them out there. Where do you live? I live in rural Ohio, and I can tell you, what you describe is precisely the way people around here live. I've lived in places where people were always on the go, and I felt like a fish out of water there. Maybe it's partly a regional issue.
> 
> I've known men who've brought their wives from rags-to-riches and the wives have left them. Who knows why? I doubt it was dullness, though. I think it's more a matter of someone who is always pursuing something "better" because she isn't happy in her own skin.
> 
> ...


I live in a very rural area that borders your state. Being on the go here probably looks different than it would in Chicago; our town isn't buzzing with hot spots. It just seems like people here have an "itch" to always be busy, which equals being on the go. People can't just take time to sit and relax, they have to be dabbling in something. Back when my marriage was good, one of the things we enjoyed most was renting movies on the weekend and just kicking back. Sometimes we would rent up to 3 movies and watch until late into the night. 

I'm not lazy, I do what needs to be done, but I never looked for something to do just to occupy what some consider dead time. 
If I have all my chores caught up, which I often do, I think, "Wow, I get to do nothing and just relax." 

As for "fishing in the appropriate pond," maybe I'm looking in the wrong pond. I want a woman who is like my x was in the good times: good looking, laid back, a good moral person, hard working. She was "one in a million": That description is "in between" what we have here, and there aren't many "in-between" people here. The good looking, hard working woman here are also the "on the go" type who want boats, fancy houses, etc. The laid back women here are usually laid back because they are lazy, prefer Larry-the-Cable-Guy boyfriends, and have enough baggage to fill a freight train. I don't fit either category. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> Do *you* really feel you are DULL -at your core ? Do you not genuinelly "like" who you are ?


I feel i am dull by most people's way of measuring, but I really do like who I am. The way I was raised worked well for us. We were a calm family who never had any major issues. I often joke that the biggest issue we had when i was growing up was whether we were going to have our chicken with Shake-and-bake or just rolled in flour. 

The lifestyle we led gave us a peaceful life instead of dramatic and stressful. It worked for us, but it doesn't blend well with other people because it's too dull for most people. 

As for the rest of your post, it was great and probably hit the nail on the head.




Larrelye said:


> SouthBound: You would be perfect for me if I were not already married. My children are nearly grown. My hobbies keep me at home and in my yard. And believe it or not I'm 30 something and attractive! It seems to me you are allowing yourself to fall into a state of depression. Is it low self esteem? You tell me. Everyone on here has offered encouragement and support and many say that they ARE interested in a man like you but yet you repeatedly come back with "No. No one's gonna be interested in me because I'm DULL." Well. Sit home and be dull and depressed or sit home and enjoy the life that YOU enjoy and not what you THINK some random fictional woman wants. Hell! Women don't know what they want! How the heck would you know!?



That's the problem, there are plenty of women who say i would fit them perfectly and would be a good catch, but they are either married or 60 plus years old. Where are the singles who feel that way?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Hey now I'm laid back, would never be with someone like Larry-the-Cable-Guy (ick) and I dumped my baggage years ago (have the hefty therapy bill to prove it ). And lazy isn't even a word in my vocabulary. I'm also attractive and hard working. And introverted for an added bonus. Yes I'm married though.
> 
> Please stop generalizing. And that "one in million" label you put on your X is simply not true.



Oh, I wasn't applying that generalization to women everywhere, that's just generally the way they are around here; there are just few "in between" people here. it may be a cultural thing to our area. 

I guess our local economy has something to do with it. Around here the jobs are either top notch or rock bottom, there is very little in between. There are very few "good jobs" here that don't require a college degree or extensive training. There are a lot of people who want to "stay" here, but the people who don't have dreams and goals of going to college and getting a good job usually just sit around and eat Cheetos, watch soaps, smoke, drink beer all day, are into something shady to make what money they do make, and are satisfied. 

The ones who do have the good jobs are the "on the go" crowd who want the big houses, etc.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I must admit my husband looks at the majority of women the same as Southbound does.....And WE BOTH often feel like we are square peggers trying to fit into a round hole- among alot of people. ...

Whether it be the hyper moral church going crowd to your average Joe who likes to BS in our backyard all night putting down a few beers throwing around some swear words..... to those who earn ALOT more $$ than us, drive newer cars, eat at expensive restarants , go to rich parties vs the lower income people, who seem like they always "Need" something, help with their car, never have enough to pay their bills, many speak of big dreams but no discipline to put their feet to them, and boast of what they will do with their lottery winnings if they hit it big. We can hang with them all but we don't really fit in with the "majority" of those in such classes. We ARE "inbetweeners" too. 

We don't make alot but we are VERY responsible with what we do make. And we raise our kids to be RESPECTFUL of others, their property, to always treat people fairly, never to bully, never to buy something they can not afford or to "waste" that is mortal sin to us , live decently moral but NOT overly -to the point of judging everyone & everything in this world -like many Homeschooling mothers in my church do. 

I am at least thankful me & my husband are on the same page, even though we are not really sure where the heck we belong!! People are either TOO "Goody Goody" and they get on our nerves (my husband calls them stuffy- we can't be ourselves) OR TOO irresponsible and we can't stand them either! 

But every woman, I don't care HOW good she appears, is going to have some FLAWS... whether it is spending too much $$, being a lousy housekeeper/hoader, cooking not her thing, too busy with her career, lives for her kids, wanting to party it up every weekend, too close to her parents/friends, being a chatterbox, a silent treatment thrower, argumentative, being oversensitive , no sex drive, too high of a sex drive , too flirty, too demanding.... something that isn't so pleasant along the way, so what flaws can a man *reasonably* live with - and still find happiness with such a woman --that is the question. 

And every man will have differernt answers ! Some of those are serious deal breakers! 

What are yours Southbound? 

My husband is Mr Calmness impersonified, his family is also calm cool collected, very stable, rarely raises their voices, talks about* safe *topics, nothing controversial. Then enter MY 
family --SO NOT (both sides even- I got a double whammy in my genes). We'll just jump right into debating Doctor Death to Politics to Religion, we get emotional, intense, but we also LAUGH HARD. 

And you know what my oldest son says when the Holidays come around, I find this rather funny as he is much like his dad (very patient loving, calm tempered -wants to be a youth paster) he says Dad's side of the family is boring, and asks does he have to stay. He wants to have my crazy side show up so things get lively. 

There is many things my husband would not want to put up with a woman, but I am very thankful he can handle me & my flaws, and one of them is "not being so calm" all the time. I am reasonable, I am reflective, but I still like a good old fashioned argument sometimes, if he couldn't deal with that, he would be the wrong man for me! I can be a little demanding too, when I really want something, I can be down right tenacious. BUt I also work hard with him to make it happen. So we are a team. 

And If I fight with him hard & hurt his feelings, I go out of my way to make it up to him, we never go to bed angry. So even with some flaws, they might be "workable".


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

southbound said:


> Oh, I wasn't applying that generalization to women everywhere, that's just generally the way they are around here; there are just few "in between" people here. it may be a cultural thing to our area.


I just realized I misunderstood you. When you said "here" I thought you meant TAM and I took that as an insult. 

My heart goes out to you if you truly live in an area like that. Maybe you should move.  Where I live there are plenty of single women that meet your criteria. And if you have some decent looks you could get a younger woman in her 30's too. My X BIL recently signed up for a dating site just for fun and he said he got many responses. He's pushing 40, attractive, decent job and the women flocked to him. I've heard this from other single men so I know it's true.

Where I live if you have decent looks you don't stay single for long.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> We can hang with them all but we don't really fit in with the "majority" of those in such classes. We ARE "inbetweeners" too.
> 
> I am at least thankful me & my husband are on the same page, even though we are not really sure where the heck we belong!! People are either TOO "Goody Goody" and they get on our nerves (my husband calls them stuffy- we can't be ourselves) OR TOO irresponsible and we can't stand them either!


That is very much how I am and how we were. I always felt like we were a little different in one way or another, but I didn't mind being a square peg with a partner. I like who I am still, but realize that it will be difficult finding another square peg among all the round holes.




SimplyAmorous said:


> But every woman, I don't care HOW good she appears, is going to have some FLAWS... whether it is spending too much $$, being a lousy housekeeper/hoader, cooking not her thing, too busy with her career, lives for her kids, wanting to party it up every weekend, too close to her parents/friends, being a chatterbox, a silent treatment thrower, argumentative, being oversensitive , no sex drive, too high of a sex drive , too flirty, too demanding.... something that isn't so pleasant along the way, so what flaws can a man *reasonably* live with - and still find happiness with such a woman --that is the question.
> 
> And every man will have differernt answers ! Some of those are serious deal breakers!
> 
> What are yours Southbound? .



The thing is, I felt like I had the perfect fit for me for almost all of the 18 years. Most men, at least jokingly, talk about the "ball and chain" and their wife being the boss, etc. However, my x was as comfortable as wearing my favorite shirt. She wasn't moody, bossy, very logical, laid back, didn't irritate me, and the list goes on. Perhaps that is not normal, so, if I met a normal woman who had these edges and i had to wake up everyday to some issue and having to spend my time off with "honey-do-lists," I'd probably shoot myself.




magnoliagal said:


> I just realized I misunderstood you. When you said "here" I thought you meant TAM and I took that as an insult.
> 
> My heart goes out to you if you truly live in an area like that. Maybe you should move.  Where I live there are plenty of single women that meet your criteria. And if you have some decent looks you could get a younger woman in her 30's too. My X BIL recently signed up for a dating site just for fun and he said he got many responses. He's pushing 40, attractive, decent job and the women flocked to him. I've heard this from other single men so I know it's true.
> 
> Where I live if you have decent looks you don't stay single for long.


I think the area does have something to do with it. Being in a rural area, I'm sure the number of women available isn't as great as in a more populated area. I have no doubt I could find a date, but I don't feel I have much "choice" around here other than the two categories I described.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I just spoke with my cousin and this subject came up about the cultural thing. He said the lady who cuts his hair is from somewhere up north and that she is always commenting about how the women around here are different. Ironically, she described them somewhat like I did, but said she also noticed that women around here don't seem interested in a guy who will treat them right. If a guy is nice and will make a "good catch," it seems like women here aren't interested. She said it was a lot different where she was from.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> Ironically, she described them somewhat like I did, but said she also noticed that women around here don't seem interested in a guy who will treat them right. If a guy is nice and will make a "good catch," it seems like women here aren't interested.


I'm sure you read these types of articles before but here is another - I agree with the ending " *Women love a nice guy with a little thug in him*."


Why women are attracted to bad boys, thugs, and players - San Francisco Dating Advice | Examiner.com

‪Bad Boys: Why Are We Attracted to Them?‬‏ - YouTube

This is not always true, but unfortunetly for many women -it appears to be >>


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This is not always true, but unfortunetly for many women -it appears to be >>



My x was always a "good girl" and never had any wild relationships before me, but again, she never acted as if she wanted one and always seemed puzzled at girls who did. If that is the case with her, I think it's sad that she feels the need to experience the bad boy at this stage in her life. 

Nobody speaks well of this guy she is trying to date. One person told me, "she may be getting just what she deserves, from what i hear, this guy is a piece of work." 

Some day she may realize that I wasn't too bad of a guy.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

southbound said:


> I just spoke with my cousin and this subject came up about the cultural thing. He said the lady who cuts his hair is from somewhere up north and that she is always commenting about how the women around here are different. Ironically, she described them somewhat like I did, but said she also noticed that women around here don't seem interested in a guy who will treat them right. If a guy is nice and will make a "good catch," it seems like women here aren't interested. She said it was a lot different where she was from.


Come to the south. Beautiful southern belles who LOVE a man that will cherish and take care of them. People are very friendly here. Up north not so much (my IL's live up north). Here strangers will chat with you at grocery stores. Up there nobody talks to you. I lived up north for 1.5 years and made not one single friend. Oh wait ONE but they were from the south. Go figure. So I get what you mean about the cultural thing.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Come to the south. Beautiful southern belles who LOVE a man that will cherish and take care of them. People are very friendly here. Up north not so much (my IL's live up north). Here strangers will chat with you at grocery stores. Up there nobody talks to you. I lived up north for 1.5 years and made not one single friend. Oh wait ONE but they were from the south. Go figure. So I get what you mean about the cultural thing.


I'm from the south, not the deep south, but the south nonetheless. People here are like you described, chat at grocery, etc., but there is still the other cultural issue.

Sometimes I wonder if living in a rural area makes people think they have to stay in a buzz all the time to keep from getting bored, all the while, missing the simple things in life.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> My x was always a "good girl" and never had any wild relationships before me, but again, she never acted as if she wanted one and always seemed puzzled at girls who did. If that is the case with her, I think it's sad that she feels the need to experience the bad boy at this stage in her life.


I was very similar to your wife, but I can honestly admit in Mid Life, the allure had MORE of an appeal to me than it ever has in my life, even my teens. I *know* it is just a passing phase I am going through, and I surely wouldn't leave a GOOD loving man over it or break a marraige over it, but I DID want to see MORE of a Bad Boy in my husband. He has been way too much of a Nice Guy for far too long. 

I found the extra flirting tremendously FUN & EXCITING, and some of the more crazy things we have done in the past few years, so out of character for us, but yet so enjoyable. Love seeing that side of him! If I could not pull some of the more naughty parts of him out for me to see & experience a little, I believe I would have gotten a little bored and restless. 

Just being honest.

Men generally want the same thing... they don't want their women to be total angels & puppets on a string, you still crave a little of that "BAD GIRL", at least in the bedroom. 


Find me a guy who doesn't feel that way ? !


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I was very similar to your wife, but I can honestly admit in Mid Life, the allure had MORE of an appeal to me than it ever has in my life, even my teens. I *know* it is just a passing phase I am going through, and I surely wouldn't leave a GOOD loving man over it or break a marraige over it, but I DID want to see MORE of a Bad Boy in my husband. He has been way too much of a Nice Guy for far too long.
> 
> I found the extra flirting tremendously FUN & EXCITING, and some of the more crazy things we have done in the past few years, so out of character for us, but yet so enjoyable. Love seeing that side of him! If I could not pull some of the more naughty parts of him out for me to see & experience a little, I believe I would have gotten a little bored and restless.
> 
> ...


Ha! The dark and the light. The good and the bad. The joy and the pain.

And all in ONE WOMAN!

SEX. Now there’s a thing! Safety, comfort, security, dedication, love, romance. Ha! I had 42 years of it and so very very blessed.

And Cakes and Puddings and Laughter and Sons and Trials and Tribulations.

Self Esteem? Southbound for goodness sake change your name and enjoy LIFE.

Mind you, you’re being well mothered here!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I was very similar to your wife, but I can honestly admit in Mid Life, the allure had MORE of an appeal to me than it ever has in my life, even my teens. I *know* it is just a passing phase I am going through, and I surely wouldn't leave a GOOD loving man over it or break a marraige over it, but I DID want to see MORE of a Bad Boy in my husband. He has been way too much of a Nice Guy for far too long.
> 
> I found the extra flirting tremendously FUN & EXCITING, and some of the more crazy things we have done in the past few years, so out of character for us, but yet so enjoyable. Love seeing that side of him! If I could not pull some of the more naughty parts of him out for me to see & experience a little, I believe I would have gotten a little bored and restless.
> 
> ...


You say you know it is just a passing phase. If your husband had failed to step up and you had gotten a divorce, do you think you would have regretted it later? In other words, would this extra excitement still be who you would be in 10 years, or do you think you would you long to have your old life back?

As for men wanting a bad girl, you hit it on the head; I wanted that in the bedroom. I wanted a nice upstanding woman who could make a mean apple pie and read the kids to sleep with Winnie the Pooh. But if she turned into a tigress in the bedroom, that would have been fine with me. 

And yes, I know I'm being "well mothered here," and I appreciate it. It helps just to get all this off my chest and to have people who will respond with caring, genuine responses. I hope I'm not boring or annoying anyone with my frequent posts. Just consider me your patient and you guys the therapists! Thanks to everyone!!


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

southbound said:


> Sometimes I wonder if living in a rural area makes people think they have to stay in a buzz all the time to keep from getting bored, all the while, missing the simple things in life.


I've never lived in a rural area so I wouldn't know. Truthfully even though I'm an introvert I'd hate being in a rural area. I might not want to do much but I want the option should I change my mind and yes I like having a walgreens on every corner. LOL!!

........laughing at the well mothered comment. It's so true. Add me to that list.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It's all smoke and bull**** though. The hardest hard guys are generally nice guys and not devious psychopaths. At least that's been my experience working as a civilian trainer and analyst to Special Forces. They don't let you become a killing machine unless you're 100% mentally put together. They've got zero time to be badass and posing. And trust me there's not a single Hell's Angel on the planet who can stand up to military interrogation resistance training. 

As an aside, we've done work researching the organizational dynamics and structure and training regimens of various armed forces and the cultures that worship 'honor', status and strut and work with intimidation are quite poorly suited to be combat capable. It's all parade puppetry with them. Give me a bunch of ordinary middle class men and women who respect their own duty and work to prop each other up and just getting the job done any day. 

So you ladies keep your bad boys. Real men are the last ones to leave a burning building.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> You say you know it is just a passing phase. If your husband had failed to step up and you had gotten a divorce, do you think you would have regretted it later? In other words, would this extra excitement still be who you would be in 10 years, or do you think you would you long to have your old life back?


 This is a little hard to answer, too many variables, and our past has so much to do with where we are now. Most people have their wilder spell in their youth, WE DIDN'T. I know this plays a part. In 10 years I will likely be in menopause and the way I am feeling will be GREATLY diminshed -might even be all gone, all dried up. I HATE getting older because I feel very young right now, in spirit, in health, in playfulness. But the clock is ticking. 

If I did stay and he was a complete DUD in the bedroom... rejecting me, refusing to try new things, telling me he is "too old" for that or not appreciating my seductive freedom I want to lavish..... after he did very little to SPICE me up in the past WHEN HE WAS FEELING IT - I would have grown to resent him like a mountain and yes, MY own selfish craving for sexual happiness would have likely taken over. 

When I am sitting in my rocking chair knitting booties for my great grandchildren, I do not want to have ANY regrets, I want to know I lived my dreams, or gave my damnest to make them reality with what I have to work with. And had he not wanted to come with me -- on my very GIVING, very pleasurabe ride to the heights, well that would have been rejection in the highest degree to me -given the lenghts I was willing to go in knocking his socks off. I would feel strongly he didn't love him, so why the heck would I want to remain with that, that would eat at me every passing day. 

I do not expect this unconditional love thing, I expect GIVE and TAKE on both sides. And he should have expected nothing less from me all those years. MY husband was too unconditional with me, and it did us 0 favors, it only taught him to hide his feelings, put himself down for my sake. It makes me angry & very sad he hurt himself like that. I feel strongly about these things. 

This is not my reality. I am only speculating if I was in THAT kind of COLD indifferent situation. We have a beautiful marraige, life & family, everything minus the white picket fence & I choose to buy our clothes at consignment shops over Macys. 19 photo albums full of irreplaceable memories. It's always been wonderful. 

SEX is the ONLY issue me & him have regrets on. It was always there & consistent but it could have been so DARN MUCH MORE ! I handled it very ignorantly, shackled with inhibitions , he handled it very passively. 

We both screwed up big time. We missed it too many years, so yeah, I can not express how much it meant to me NOW to get this right , while we are still feeling "pretty good", To live what we missed, if he didn't want to come for that ride, I likely would have left him. I don't think I would have too much trouble finding men. Would they be as wonderful as him outside of the bedroom - HELL NO, I am not stupid ...... But that is why I will climb a mountain with him to revive anything there is to revive because I know he loves me that much. But still, he could be a little more "aggressive". 

Sometimes we need to pick our battles! 

I know in 10 years, when the Cougar dies down a bit, we will LAUGH over this (we do now!) and I will probably say to myself "what in the world was I thinking!" I likely won't even understand it. 




> As for men wanting a bad girl, you hit it on the head; I wanted that in the bedroom. I wanted a nice upstanding woman who could make a mean apple pie and read the kids to sleep with Winnie the Pooh. But if she turned into a tigress in the bedroom, that would have been fine with me.


 Well then you understand what women instinctively want too, a good hearted man who works hard to provide, who takes time to listen to her, do stupid things with her, gives her alot of affection & knows how to be passionate in the bedroom, how to take charge & light her fire.

We all need some spark !


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Sorry Southbound, not even sure I answered your question! 

Even IF your wife wanted to come back, why would you want to take her back at this point? Wouldn't she have to cry at your feet -in showing great remorse, with YOU feeling she had NO decent reason to leave you? This has to anger you. 

The saddest part about the whole thing is -she left you nothing to go on, you are grappling to WHY you was so offensive to her. NO break up should have these questions, each party should KNOW THE WHY's, this helps give closure like nothing else. Things left unsaid, untried, undone, very very sad. Better to KNOW, even if it hurts like hell. I would compare it to having a child kidnapped and never found. Better to learn of her death & lay her to rest. 

In my case, there would be 2 scenerios...

If I left for being foolish enough to NEED to experience some "wild bad boy sex" (cause I missed this in my youth) -when my husband gave me ALL he had in our marraige every day- but I was momentaryily blinded & had a lust for something more sinister -- you bet I would have to be BEGGING for his mercy to even think I deserved to be " taken back"..... He'd have every right to be done with me! And I couldn't blame him. I'd be the monster, he'd be smelling like the rose. And yeah, I would resort to begging on my hands & knees. I am not so proud to not do such a thing. 

But on the other hand, if he was rejecting ME, his actions showed he was NOT "into me" anymore after MY efforts, his heart elsewhere, affection went by the wayside, DESIRE a thing of the past...... 1st off he would KNOW without a shadow of a doubt why I was leaving him , that I was NOT at all happy and needed MORE, romance revived, passion revisited. If he didn't step it up during these revelations & I left him ---HE would have to come & pursue ME again to show me HE screwed it up, and wants to be my everything, asking for another chance. 

Think about it - WHY would I want to go back to that ? it would just be more of the same of why I was miserable & needed to flee. Leaving would be excrusiating with kids & financial concerns, it would surely be a HUGE deal to take that step- whether he "understood" it or not, the fact remains I "understood it" and it was hell to live with. 

And if I did try to go back to THAT, well then it is out of *desperation *only , because I would NOT be missing -feeling I was of little priority, and just existing in a room mate ho hum atmosphere. I would be better off to stay away and keep chuggling along believing someone who is more like myself is out there to be joined with. After all, it is a big big world ! 

So which scenerio do you feel FITS YOUR situation the most? I think what happens is most people want to blame the other, and they don't see their own mistakes. She is blaming you, you are blaming her. And neither will take a step towards the other. 

It is possible it was truly an "equal" division, an "equal" loss of effort on both sides -which led to one of you taking a drastic step, which makes her just look "the worst" in this whole thing. Your ex has flaws I accually despise (lack of communication & over sensitivity) so I am not trying to give her more credit here, really I am not. Just my rambling.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Love this thread! So much honest discussion about what makes relationships work. BTW SimplyA, love your new avatar, and wanted to comment that menopause does not have to mean lower drive. There is a new sense of freedom with the kids gone, and the pure glee of knowing that you can still turn each other on, that your relationship is deeper than ever.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Sorry Southbound, not even sure I answered your question!
> 
> Even IF your wife wanted to come back, why would you want to take her back at this point? Wouldn't she have to cry at your feet -in showing great remorse, with YOU feeling she had NO decent reason to leave you? This has to anger you.
> 
> ...


I'm sure she will say I was neglecting her emotional needs. I always looked at it like "we weren't on our honeymoon" anymore after 18 years. I'm not saying that just because two people have been married 18 years that things can't be great, but I don't think it's totally odd that a couple could get in a rut. we were just in a rut for whatever reason, and I don't see why we couldn't have worked it out instead of divorce.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> I'm sure she will say I was neglecting her emotional needs. I always looked at it like "we weren't on our honeymoon" anymore after 18 years. I'm not saying that just because two people have been married 18 years that things can't be great, but I don't think it's totally odd that a couple could get in a rut. we were just in a rut for whatever reason, and I don't see why we couldn't have worked it out instead of divorce.


My answer to this is so very simple .....YOU was content with the RUT, she was NOT. It went on TOO long (for her). To this , I accually give her some leeway, I am not the type that would be content either. Some of us get RESTLESS, it leads to depression, unspeakable sadness, numbness. It is just the way we are, we need *MORE *than others. I don't think that makes us bad people, I truly don't, or I would have to "dislike" myself. 

I recognize myself for having these specific desires in marraige. Again , she *IS *at fault for *not *calling MORE attention to it, a warning, a heads up, clanging bells, something! 



> wanted to comment that menopause does not have to mean lower drive. There is a new sense of freedom with the kids gone, and the pure glee of knowing that you can still turn each other on, that your relationship is deeper than ever.


 Believe me, with my new found "sexual mindset", I am accually not too worried about this (though I can not deny some of the stories I have heard from others who lost it all after menopaus). My step Mother is one, such a HAPPENING sex life (sex daily in their 40's) it is what brought them together-that sexual passion ! Now she feels "nothing", I sat & talked to her one day about all of this private stuff for like an hour. I was like "WOW". That is SO very sad. Their love is still deep as ever but the sex has fallen by the wayside, she has to allow herself to give in to him. 

I have learned so much & heartily believe so much has to do with what is happening "inbetween our ears"- and if the hormones fail me miserably (as it seems with my step Mom), I will be seeking them out specifically from the Doc! Anything to get KEEP this afloat, it is not something I want to give up anytime soon. 

I want me & my husband to remain "dirty & flirtatiously minded" till we hit our 70's. Now that will be bliss.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

SimplyA, I totally agree. So many people do not tell their spouses what is bothering them, and harboring resentments kills love. They think that their spouse will not listen to them and try to make the marriage better. My heart breaks to hear of people throwing away perfectly good marriages because they do not know how to communicate.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> SimplyA, I totally agree. So many people do not tell their spouses what is bothering them, and harboring resentments kills love. They think that their spouse will not listen to them and try to make the marriage better. My heart breaks to hear of people throwing away perfectly good marriages because they do not know how to communicate.


Their spouse has often taught them that their feelings are unimportant.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Conrad:

I understand what you are saying. I do believe that you have to keep trying different ways to make you spouse realize how you see the relationship. People give up too easily when it doesn't happen immediately. Of course you must be compatible, and you should not stay if your spouse refuses to protect your feelings.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Their spouse has often taught them that their feelings are unimportant.


Or... they have simply learned to repress those needs from the examples they've learned from influences in their life such as the way they were raised, media, social and cultural values etc. It is not always that one spouse is domineering.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> Conrad:
> 
> I understand what you are saying. I do believe that you have to keep trying different ways to make you spouse realize how you see the relationship. People give up too easily when it doesn't happen immediately. Of course you must be compatible, and you should not stay if your spouse refuses to protect your feelings.


I think that was a major issue with us. I was aware she wasn't 100% happy with everything just as I wasn't, but she put out a slight risk of thunderstorms warning, but in the end, acted as though I should have realized a hurricane was approaching.

She had a philosophy, which she actually verbalized, that if you had to "tell" someone what you needed, then getting it was no good. So, I suppose she applied that to this situation as well. 

I asked her why she didn't tell me these issues were serious enough to her that it could lead to divorce when there was still time; that would have gotten my attention! She said she wasn't going to use "divorce" as a threat. I told her she didn't have to use it as a threat, but just let me know how serious things were to her.


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