# Women's preferences in choosing a man for looks



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I've seen studies done in the past where researchers asked a number of women to go thru a series of photos and rank males on attractiveness based on their faces alone. Interestingly the results will vary depending upon location, i.e. countries with worse health index ratings showed preferences different than those with better health index ratings. It was from a WSJ article that's a few years old. Granted there's not much we can do when it comes to our facial structure, but I'm sure men can try to amply or diminish their natural masculinity thru grooming (reshaping eyebrows, growing more facial hair, etc). 

What I find interesting is how this can relate to the "alpha male" vs the "beta male" characteristics we see play out in the various threads on TAM. Do men who have the more masculine features statistically exhibit more alpha traits vs the softer featured males playing the "beta provider" role? According to the WSJ article, it appears to be true since the facial shapes for men are dependent upon the amount of testosterone in the body. Here is a picture from the article used in the study. Looks like the picture is of a male who had his image "masculinized" and "feminized". Ladies, who's more attractive? Is the guy on the left more likely to be the a$$hole while the guy on the right to be in touch with his feelings? Anyone experience the opposite where a soft featured male was uber alpha while the strongly chiseled male was an emotional creature?










Link to article: Why Women Don't Want Macho Men - WSJ.com


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

One thing is for sure I wouldn't consider someone a high quality male if he had slept with 100 women in a year or was likely to cheat because of testosterone levels. That would be something to stay away from I don't care how good he looked.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Hmm … neither one is my “type”, both are a bit feminine looking to my eyes, and the one on the right looks like he’s 14 years old. Perhaps it’s my age bias (mid 50’s).

The picture below is my type and I married it. It’s a picture of Clint Eastwood in the movie Heartbreak Ridge (1986) at the same age my husband is now with the same features, haircut and coloring. They look so much alike that they could be brothers. Yes, my husband is very masculine-looking however in reality he is only an “alpha type” at work and in sports, in relationships he is passive and emotionally reserved.

Looks can be deceiving, so I don’t give them too much consideration except in initial attraction.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

This is the kind of look my Dh has and I love it!!


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

One factor not included is how ovulation plays a part in what a woman finds attractive. 
Ovulation makes women see men differently. 
During this time, a woman with an average looking SO, is more likely to find fault with his looks compared to a woman with a sexier looking SO.
Of course it's subjective as to what one finds sexy.

Ovulation Makes Women See Men Differently | Yahoo Health

Then there is also the flip side of this, in that men find women who are ovulating more attractive than when they are not.
Women More Attractive During Ovulation: Science of Sex-Art of Behavior

Seems that the allure of sex is so powerful, it changes the perception of attraction.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Phenix70 said:


> One factor not included is how ovulation plays a part in what a woman finds attractive.
> Ovulation makes women see men differently.
> During this time, a woman with an average looking SO, is more likely to find fault with his looks compared to a woman with a sexier looking SO.
> Of course it's subjective as to what one finds sexy.
> ...


Quite correct. Facial scars, V torso, muscle mass, dominant stance, and other indicators of fighting power are all big attractors to women who are ovulating. When not ovulating, they tend to go for the DiCaprios of the world. Married women who are ovulating also show more skin than they do at other times.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I feel old. They look so young! Neither would be my type either, based purely on looks.

I've viewed the definition of alpha/beta differently than presented in your post though. I wouldn't equate one to be an a-hole over the other. There's negative connotations with 'alpha' and I'd consider traits such as assertiveness (not to be confused with aggressiveness) and I guess leadership qualities. Guy where I worked - handsome, strong jaw-line, in shape, facial hair - was shy, introverted, wouldn't speak in front of the group because of this. Meanwhile, guy who was opposite to this appearance-wise (as in, without strong jaw-line, smaller frame, etc.) was the manager and he was assertive, confident and such. I also wouldn't consider 'beta' with negative connotation either. I think we can all be a bit of a blend sometimes. Maybe I just don't know what the definitions are?

I was attracted to hubs before I knew what he looked like. His personality shone and yes, he was assertive. He resembles Dave Grohl - but less rock star. More like Grohl if he worked a corporate job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I've seen studies done in the past where researchers asked a number of women to go thru a series of photos and rank males on attractiveness based on their faces alone.


 The problem with basing this on photos, is that the personality and other factors of a male does not show in a photo. Although studies show that men rate women in desirability rating base 90% on looks, women rate a man's desirability rating only 40% based on looks. Thus for women, basing it on a photo tells us little in the real world. The guy that gives good conversation, makes a solid living, is smart and has a strong enough personality to make them feel safe, is the guy that she will be most attracted to in the real world.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

The photos were taken from the article I linked to, so I went with it for the comparison. The starting point for the model was probably naturally softer, so the more masculine look on the left is still not the rugged look that some women go for. 

I didn't mean to say that all masculine men were a-holes and all softer men were spineless providers - I used those terms more as tongue in cheek type of commentary. 

I will say that while women probably put a lower emphasis on looks than men do, I still think the looks are still a more important determinant than the 40% number indicated in this thread. I know the common phrase is that "you can't judge a book by its cover". I largely agree with the phrase. But I also believe that the reason stereotypes develop is because there is some statistical truth to the observations made. So while I think it's terrible to judge someone's personality based on looks alone, most of us will subconsciously make those snap judgements before the poor soul can introduce himself (or herself). I think there may be some degree of truth where a man with stronger, masculine features is typically more aggressive (alpha?) than softer featured man (beta?). The stronger or softer features are developed thru the amount of testosterone in the body, and testosterone levels are known to determine aggressiveness/confidence in a male.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Thebes said*: *One thing is for sure I wouldn't consider someone a high quality male if he had slept with 100 women in a year or was likely to cheat because of testosterone levels. That would be something to stay away from I don't care how good he looked*.










... I've read a couple books on Testosterone, and it's effects do = lustier more emotionally detached men as the digits get higher & higher, prisons are full of the those with the highest levels... Nah..give me a sensitive "one woman' type -with the lower numbers any day please! 

My husband , in his teens, looked more like the Beta specimen in those pictures (of course!)..







..actually he looked a lot LIKE THIS picture..... as far as Testosterone, he's told me he used to whack it up to 5 times a day, so it surely must have been adequate .. 

He was never the competitive / aggressive type though.... didn't care about sports at all... but he's told me his legs were really strong at bench pressing / he was always on his bike around town.....we have 2 cross country runner sons...I'm going to say they get that from Dad's side of the family... As thin as he was back then, he would have been killed in football or something. 

*Parts of the article :* 



> But what does health have to do with masculinity? The link is testosterone, the hormone behind manly muscles, strong jaws, prominent eyebrow ridges, facial hair and deep voices. Testosterone is immunosuppressive. This means a man must be healthy and in good condition to withstand its effects on his development. Testosterone is also linked to other traits related to strength: fitness, fertility and dominance. From an evolutionary perspective, masculinity is basically man's way of advertising good genes, dominance and likelihood to father healthier kids. When disease is a real threat, as it had been—and arguably still is—heritable health is invaluable.


 So long as the Test is within normal limits I'd say ... that range is really wide....from 300 - 1100...Highest in younger 20's... and slowly loosing little by little as the age goes up.....this is also why men MELLOW as they get older.. by the time they are Grandfathers..they have calmed their jets pretty nicely and enjoy their grandkids..even if they might have been hell on wheels in their younger days.. 

We've learned in mid life my Husbands levels was a little lower than *the average* for other men in his age group..... but it's good enough. Probably normal *for him*.. 

They always talk about "Good genes" in the ALPHA group...kinda bugs me .....Even though my husband isn't the portrait of High masculinity/ big muscles/ ripped chests ... our 6 children have been all very healthy....knock on wood... I've been scolded by their Pediatrician even -for not bringing them in as often as I should. 



> Masculinity, however, can come at a high price. Women often think of high-testosterone types as uncooperative, unsympathetic, philandering, aggressive and disinterested in parenting.In fact, there is evidence that they really do have more relationship problems than other men[/B].


 Statistically consistent with most everything I have read...



> While exceptionally attractive (or wealthy) women may indeed capture this ideal male, most are forced by circumstance to settle for the best combination of traits. Some husband-seekers trade off masculinity for companionship and good parenting. Others forfeit compassion in exchange for wealth. ("I want a man who's kind and understanding," Zsa Zsa Gabor once griped. "Is that too much to ask of a millionaire?")


Never thought I'd agree with anything Zsa Zsa Gabor said...... I wanted the companionship/ Best friend... Good Dad... Faithful, kind & true.. everything Good BETA represents is what I got in my husband... 

Breakdown here >>



> The *Beta Traits* are those associated with the strengths of being a nice guy / “family man”. Kindness, being a good listener, the ability to help with the children, dependability, thoughtfulness, compassion and patience. These all create a sense of comfort and safety for the woman, and relax her because she feels that if she became pregnant, the Beta Trait male isn’t going to abandon her and the baby.*Beta *= comfort building = Oxytocin / Vasopressin = Pair Bond = Calm Enjoyment"


Contrast with :

The *Alpha Traits* are those associated with classic “manly man” strengths. Power, dominance, physical ability, bravery, wealth, cool and confidence. Oh and good genes. These are the things that attract women and turn them on sexually. The Alpha Traits are linked to the dopamine response in women.[/QUOTE]




> To secretly have it all, some women adopt a "dual mating" strategy—marrying a solid, faithful guy and enjoying trysts with hunks. As a result, up to 10% of babies born in some populations have fathers who are presumed to be their biological dads but aren't.


 This is very .. ..the deepest of betrayals to a man... Sometimes I think DNA testing should be mandatory... as the men who need it the most -are the ones not pushing for it ...and the laws haven't caught up to the rights of those who are taken like this..once their name is on that birth certificate, this is all the LAW cares about...this is a grave injustice...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Both scream "carwash attendant" to me...

But what do I know, I look like Frank Zappa


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

TRy said:


> The problem with basing this on photos, is that the personality and other factors of a male does not show in a photo. Although studies show that men rate women in desirability rating base 90% on looks, women rate a man's desirability rating only 40% based on looks. Thus for women, basing it on a photo tells us little in the real world. The guy that gives good conversation, makes a solid living, is smart and has a strong enough personality to make them feel safe, is the guy that she will be most attracted to in the real world.


these results have also been obtained in other observed behavior studies conducted in the wild (night clubs).


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> The picture below is my type and I married it. It’s a picture of *Clint Eastwood* in the movie Heartbreak Ridge (1986) at the same age my husband is now with the same features, haircut and coloring. They look so much alike that they could be brothers. Yes, my husband is very masculine-looking however in reality he is only an “alpha type” at work and in sports, in relationships he is passive and emotionally reserved.


 It was on a post here on TAM that someone mentioned Clint Eastwood in the past...that his character was similar to him on screen.... that's not so bad.. then someone came along to state what he was like in REAL LIFE.. I was rather shocked*! *.... he just about tops Hollywood's biggest Philanderer...



> Clint: The man with no shame - Independent.ie
> 
> Clint Eastwood always nurtured the image of a family man far removed from the anti-heroes he plays on screen. But now, a new book exposes the real man a violent, mean-spirited, tight-fisted serial philanderer who beat his first wife, conducted a string of affairs throughout his career, fathered several children outside of wedlock, forced two of his lovers, including long-time partner Sondra Locke, to have abortions. Pat Stacey reports.....


Personal life of Clint Eastwood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Left just looks a bit older to me, since guys seem to fill out a bit more as they grow. Since I'm not into younger males, neither picture particularly appeals to me.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It was on a post here on TAM that someone mentioned Clint Eastwood in the past...that his character was similar to him on screen.... that's not so bad.. then someone came along to state what he was like in REAL LIFE.. I was rather shocked*! *.... he just about tops Hollywood's biggest Philanderer...
> 
> *Clint Eastwood always nurtured the image of a family man far removed from the anti-heroes he plays on screen.*


Well, anyone who ever thought he qualified as a family man, just wasn't paying attention. Every room the guy walks into three women are racing to be first to wrap their legs around him. Even a genuine family man is going to crumble eventually in the face of that onslaught.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Not true, Mach. Some men are sought after by women yet don't "crumble" because they know that sex isn't scarce and neither are highly sexual women.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Just a reminder on the pictures I put up along with the article: They are the same person where each photo was modified to make the person more masculine features vs softer features. It's not meant to indicate that the photo on the left is a perfect substitute for the Marlboro Man. It's meant to get women to think whether they prefer a more chiseled, stronger jawline "manly" look or if they prefer to the softer featured more delicate look. 

According to the studies, there is probably a semi-valid link between alpha male traits and how masculine the face looks. Since the underlying notion is that test levels contribute to how a man looks, it appears that woman have a first line filter in determining how "alpha" of a guy they want based on his looks.

Interestingly enough, Clint Eastwood was brought up as a rugged masculine example. His personal life implies that he was an alpha male that most likely had an above average level of testosterone that affected his relationships with women.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Would absolutely get it...

My preference:


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not true, Mach. Some men are sought after by women yet don't "crumble" because they know that sex isn't scarce and neither are highly sexual women.


Ever read "Red Badge of Courage?" Same thing. When it's offered hour by hour, day in and day out, Sooner or later, an attack is made when or where, for whatever reasons, the defenses are weak. It gets easier to say no after the first 1000 or so, then when you hit 50, the testosterone pretty much shuts down and things get easier, whether you want them to or not.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sorry but you are wrong.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Sorry but you are wrong.


Name an actor who claims to be faithful.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

TRy said:


> The guy that gives good conversation, makes a solid living, is smart and has a strong enough personality to make them feel safe, is the guy that she will be most attracted to in the real world.


This was definitely true for me. I think this kind of man is pretty irresistible.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Feel safe? Pardon my skepticism but unless feeling safe is shorthand for "not abusive" or unless one lives in Somalia, where does the "strong personality to make one feel safe" comes into play in these terms?

It's a serious question... What would the female characteristic for this be??

Do women feel "unsafe" in this day and age?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

john117 said:


> Feel safe? Pardon my skepticism but unless feeling safe is shorthand for "not abusive" or unless one lives in Somalia, where does the "strong personality to make one feel safe" comes into play in these terms?
> 
> It's a serious question... What would the female characteristic for this be??
> 
> Do women feel "unsafe" in this day and age?



When ovulating, women are basically attracted to men who are exhibiting upper body strength and other high testosterone presentations that suggest fighting capabilities.

why do you think that might be?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> Feel safe? Pardon my skepticism but unless feeling safe is shorthand for "not abusive" or unless one lives in Somalia, where does the "strong personality to make one feel safe" comes into play in these terms?
> 
> It's a serious question... What would the female characteristic for this be??
> 
> Do women feel "unsafe" in this day and age?


A man with definite likes and dislikes, with a strong work ethic, someone who can say no when it is in our long-term best interests, even when I am pushing madly against him to say yes -- wow, very appealing.

Passivity is just a relationship killer, imo.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Paul Newman.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Women 'should stay away from rugged men if they want beautiful daughters' - Telegraph

Kinda interesting story. I never truly thought of it that way. My looks are more masculine plus I have a naturally athletic build. I'm not going to go and say I'm the epitome of the rugged movie star or anything in the looks department, but my wife likes the way I look so I guess I'm good. Anyways, I have two daughters who I think are pretty. But they both inherited some of my traits. My 13 year old is definitely pretty, but she has to shave her legs quite regularly plus she has fuller eyebrows that will make her curse me out when she has to start plucking them... My younger daughter is pretty too, but she's built like a brick sh!thouse, i.e. athletic in build plus she too will have to contend with the fuller eyebrows and hairy legs...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Machiavelli said:


> Well, anyone who ever thought he qualified as a family man, just wasn't paying attention. Every room the guy walks into three women are racing to be first to wrap their legs around him. Even a genuine family man is going to crumble eventually in the face of that onslaught.


 Not sure what you are saying..not every woman wants to jump in the Lap of the rich & famous....that's like suggesting our morals & sense of character in people usher out the window and we bow to the biggest Di** before us... . 

Honestly, the fantasy is slaughtered *for me* once I know a man sleeps around. I've always felt that way. 



> Name an actor who claims to be faithful.


Tom Hanks


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

On the whole DNA, testing as mandatory, in fact in certain ancient cultures, the line of inheritance went through the female line, b/c it was the only line that could be verified to be truly mother to daughter if there were witnesses to the birth.. makes sense if you think about it..  

And I agree, neither of those guys have attractive features to me.. May be the age, b/c I'm 39.. but.. I don't know.. Taylor Lautner makes me feel like a dirty old woman.. 

I think, in the past, I have been attracted to more manly, rugged types.. But there's also been a consistent type in my two husbands and that's "less intelligent" as well.. I'm not sure why that is.. I'm exploring that issue.. 

This time, I would like to find someone with the same INTERESTS as me.. I would like to DO things together, other than watching movies, which is all really STBX and I had in common.. Well, that's not true, but that's all he would do with me.. 

Now, I would like someone that shares more of my INTELLECTUAL pursuits.. So.. I'm curious on how that will work out with my physical preferences to date.. (shrug)


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Just a reminder on the pictures I put up along with the article: They are the same person where each photo was modified to make the person more masculine features vs softer features. It's not meant to indicate that the photo on the left is a perfect substitute for the Marlboro Man. It's meant to get women to think whether they prefer a more chiseled, stronger jawline "manly" look or if they prefer to the softer featured more delicate look.
> 
> According to the studies, there is probably a semi-valid link between alpha male traits and how masculine the face looks. Since the underlying notion is that test levels contribute to how a man looks, it appears that woman have a first line filter in determining how "alpha" of a guy they want based on his looks.
> 
> Interestingly enough, Clint Eastwood was brought up as a rugged masculine example. His personal life implies that he was an alpha male that most likely had an above average level of testosterone that affected his relationships with women.


Thing is, I can't actually see any difference in the two pictures. They look exactly the same to me. :scratchhead:


ETA, just looked again, is there a difference in the eyebrows?


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## silentghost (Jan 28, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Name an actor who claims to be faithful.


 I don't know if many actors that are faithful...but I sure know that there is not many of them.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Not sure what you are saying..not every woman wants to jump in the Lap of the rich & famous....that's like suggesting our morals & sense of character in people usher out the window and we bow to the biggest Di** before us... .


It doesn't have to be all beautiful women, only a half dozen at each stop who want to break into the movies.



SimplyAmorous said:


> Honestly, the fantasy is slaughtered *for me* once I know a man sleeps around. I've always felt that way.
> 
> Tom Hanks


He cheated on his first wife.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

browneyes74 said:


> I think, in the past, I have been attracted to more manly, rugged types.. But there's also been a consistent type in my two husbands and that's "less intelligent" as well.. I'm not sure why that is.. I'm exploring that issue..


Higher testosterone levels in early adolescence usually translates into lower IQ. The trick for guys is to be one of the lucky few who gets early high T and a high IQ.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Machiavelli said:


> *It doesn't have to be all beautiful women, only a half dozen at each stop who want to break into the movies*.


 Pure usury... 



> *He cheated on his first wife.*


I guess nobody is perfect...



silentghost said:


> *I don't know if many actors that are faithful...but I sure know that there is not many of them.*


 There was once a discussion here at TAM...a female poster was asking "*Who would be interested in Johnny Depp if he worked in a Grocery Store*?"... Well ya know It's wholly silly to even have this conversation as Rich & Famous Depp would only want to take his pick from the beautiful "10"s that spread themselves out before him....

and those would be in endless supply....

I'd choose the NOBODY...over the Super Star...because of their lifestyle alone...I'd call it "Torrential Temptation" to swing from woman to woman.. there would be no security or family life to be had ...with such a man.... he'd never be home, the world prying for his attention, and to open his fly....No Thank you.... everything about that lifestyle would utterly SUCK TO ME...

I'd much rather be with the young Grocery Store attendant...good looking....just him & me against the world....the idea of an innocent romance much more appeals to me over being Rich & famous...It all boils down to what a girl wants I guess. 

Overly confident types - I just figure they have a little black book , and 10 women waiting in the wings, I would look at them with great suspicion over the quieter laid back types..


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Name an actor who claims to be faithful.


Tim McGraw, Chris O'Donnell and Kirk Cameron


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

over20 said:


> Tim McGraw, Chris O'Donnell and Kirk Cameron


who?


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

Wysh, you are cracking me up!

Look at the jawline and the eyes particularly.. The jawline is squarer on the guy on the left and narrower on the right. 

The eyes on the guy on the right are larger and more feminine looking..


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> who?


Chris O'Donnell was in Batman, Batman Forever and Scent of a Woman including some older movies

Tim McGraw ( also a country singer) was in the Blindside, Friday Night Lights and Flicka

Kirk Cameron was in an old TV series called "Growing pains", Like Father like Son, Fireproof and Left behind. In the movie Fireproof he actually had a scene where he was to kiss his co star but had his wife take her place ( a body double type of thing).


I don't want to hijack this thread anymore.....just an FYI.....there are some decent men in Hollywood


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

silentghost said:


> I don't know if many actors that are faithful...but I sure know that there is not many of them.


Ahh, dang... But close to actors. Shaquille O'neil's wife said that "Grant Hill is the only faithful married man in the NBA". Now while I think it may be an exaggeration, he is likely one of the 10 or so who are faithful


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Higher testosterone levels in early adolescence usually translates into lower IQ. The trick for guys is to be one of the lucky few who gets early high T and a high IQ.


It might not be that the high testosteroners HAVE to have a lower IQ, they might be able to get away with more on their physicality alone and be kinda like a "hot girl" who never had to be smart because people are moving around her doing things for her.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

browneyes74 said:


> Wysh, you are cracking me up!
> 
> Look at the jawline and the eyes particularly.. The jawline is squarer on the guy on the left and narrower on the right.
> 
> The eyes on the guy on the right are larger and more feminine looking..


Well I've been back and checked again, but I can't see any difference.

Is it a guy thing or just me?

Perhaps I have autistic tendencies?

If I had to say anything about the pic without meeting him I would say that he looks a bit of a wuss.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Don't know about "faithful" but there are noteworthy long term apparently stable celebrity marriages:

Pat Gallagher: 20 Celebrity Couples Who Have Been Married 25 Years ... And Beyond

Tom Selleck (second M), Denzel Washington and not in the article- Jay Leno (M 1980). 

My H looks like George Clooney (with olive green eyes) and I think he's hot.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Pure usury...
> 
> 
> I guess nobody is perfect...
> ...


I'm not sure why, but this got me thinking...I guess it really comes down to a balancing act. My STBW is similar in thought that the Rich and Famous lifestyle has no appeal to her. She doesn't see the security that she would want...

It does come off somewhat like...I want to look at HIM becase he is HOT, eye candy, but would never want to be in a replationship with him because he'd be too tempted and I'd be insecure the whole time. I'd rather settle with you becase I want the security. You're the safer option, the less attractive option...kind of a back handed compliment.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

treyvion said:


> It might not be that the high testosteroners HAVE to have a lower IQ, they might be able to get away with more on their physicality alone and be kinda like a "hot girl" who never had to be smart because people are moving around her doing things for her.


IQ isn't something you have much ability to influence.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not true, Mach. Some men are sought after by women yet don't "crumble" because they know that sex isn't scarce and neither are highly sexual women.


I agree. Getting consistent, adventerous contact from a wife would probably steel the man against falling down.

But in the absence of that.....


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

over20 said:


> Chris O'Donnell was in Batman, Batman Forever and Scent of a Woman including some older movies
> 
> Tim McGraw ( also a country singer) was in the Blindside, Friday Night Lights and Flicka
> 
> ...


I won't spark a debate but Kirk Cameron is the type of person that gives Christians a bad name. He's a sanctimonious, high and mighty douche.

You want to live for the Lord. Fine with me. I do to. Don't go judging others for the way they live their lives though. And he certainly does his fair share of judging. The irony the bible teaches us not to judge because we don't have the power to. Kirk Cameron seems to think he does though.

Ya...as you can see I have a problem with this guy.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Cletus said:


> IQ isn't something you have much ability to influence.


I've taken some of the tests. Without education I would have done poorly. From what I saw it can be influenced.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Depends on the test.I've taken it twice, once in high school and once years later in grad school. Fairly close results.

The whole 'single IQ' concept has seen its day I suppose. There are better ways to judge different aspects of intelligence, not with just a single number.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Ralph Fiennes would be about the prettiest I would go for:










But this is much more to my taste:










Or this:


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

I have almost always found a man that has a strong brow/jawline and angular features to be unattractive. As a teen, I wondered if there might be something wrong w me because I just never got why so many celebrities were fawned over by my peers (esp. young prince william).
I prefer faces that are in the middle, not too angular, not too 'girly' (Leo decario was another one I didnt care for)
As for the bod, it's got to be wiry... I like geeks, but especially when they've got defined muscles that you only notice when you take a second look.
My hubby is absolutely those things, but he is also high-testosterone. I can tell bc he displays just about every other physical/psychological trait associated w hi-t


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

samyeagar said:


> *I'm not sure why, but this got me thinking...I guess it really comes down to a balancing act. My STBW is similar in thought that the Rich and Famous lifestyle has no appeal to her. She doesn't see the security that she would want...*
> 
> *It does come off somewhat like...I want to look at HIM becase he is HOT, eye candy, but would never want to be in a replationship with him because he'd be too tempted and I'd be insecure the whole time. I'd rather settle with you becase I want the security. You're the safer option, the less attractive option...kind of a back handed compliment.*


 Actually I focused overwhelmingly on the temptation angle... but there is another side ...4 small words hidden in that post...

"He'd never be home"....

Another reason I'd choose the Lower income EYE CANDY male ...

I'd never want to be with a Workaholic who is rarely home...a busy fast paced lifestyle would not appeal to me (unless I was an actress myself or another workaholic)....I'm just a country girl... desiring the simple pleasures of life, and togetherness with a man....

I prefer a man who has *time* for his wife and family...riches not required....Heck I am happy with camping vacations, great memories...yes, more time for Romantic Love... so it's not just about worrying he wouldn't be faithful ....

Though, come on... I have my feet firmly on the ground.... I don't care how beautiful a woman is ...those men -the Johnny Depps --the daily temptation is going to take the vast majority in that lifestyle DOWN... that is how the cookie crumbles... those lists of who has remained Faithful to their spouses... Ha ha ... COUGH COUGH... it's a Joke.. 

Frankly if I was that HOT and popular with that much temptation being thrown at me daily... I'd probably fall myself..... Some things in life just aren't worth the pretty picture....


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Do men who have the more masculine features statistically exhibit more alpha traits vs the softer featured males playing the "beta provider" role?
> 
> 
> Anyone experience the opposite where a soft featured male was uber alpha while the strongly chiseled male was an emotional creature?


No to the second sentence. I've experienced what you wrote in the first sentence written above. My H has that Michael Fassbender chiseled look and basically fits the textbook description of the term "alpha" we see all over the place.


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