# Complicated!



## PumpkinPie (Apr 30, 2013)

Hello everyone, I'm a newbie here so please be kind! 

I think this forum is a fantastic idea, and I'd be really grateful for some perspective and advice. 

I've been with my husband since I was 19, he was 20. We got married when I was 21. I'm now 28. We have always been a very romantically minded couple (both love things like the Bronte's and the idea of falling deeply in love, etc) so in general we have a great marriage, and we love each other very much. However, we have big intimacy issues. I'm not sure where they stem from, but I can guess. He is the only person I have ever slept with, and we have had a healthy sex life. He has slept with 1 other person before me but he found it traumatic as he wasn't interested in a sexual relationship with this person, but she drove him to a very low state, isolated him from his friends and family, so he felt he had to start a relationship with her so he wouldn't be alone. I'm not sure that "low" feeling has ever completely left him. I was raised by a single mother in an intensely religious atmosphere. In my life I've generally seen most men behaving very lazily and selfishly, and seen women being strong and picking up the pieces. I know I've been indoctrinated with religious dogma on sexuality and appropriate behaviour for women. So, (increasingly) long story short...I seem to have 2 personalities when it comes to intimacy. Not just sex, but even kissing. I'll either feel "free" and not worry, be natural, intimacy naturally happens...or I'll be very VERY angry, stubbornly argue against my husband and hate the idea of being "used" by him (when I know that is never what our relationship has been). 

I'm not sure how to get past this. Do any of you have similar experiences you've come through? I started experiencing this just before we got married, so we've been dealing with this a long time. It's built up into a vicious cycle of annoyance and frustration. My husband does try to approach things better, but all the same when he mentions it it just reinforces the feeling that all he wants is sex, which makes me even more entrenched. 

Any thoughts greatly appreciated x


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Do YOU ever try initiating?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

get over it! sex is important to men thats how we show love. accept it and be thankfull your husband desires you. maybe show him that you desire to please him sexually and keep an open mind. even comunicate what you need to bring out the vixen you could be.

or ignor it and let the snow ball get bigger and bigger until resentment builds beyond repair.


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## PumpkinPie (Apr 30, 2013)

Thanks for your replies. Yep I do initiate sometimes, the problem isn't so much that I'm avoiding sex but those dark times when my whole attitude changes without me realising at the time. 

Okay, get over it. I have been trying that for years now. It is what id love to do. But in practical terms, you tell me what getting over it means. Not wanting to, being in a bad place, but having sex anyway? That would make things much worse.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

PumpkinPie said:


> I'll either feel "free" and not worry, be natural, intimacy naturally happens...or I'll be very VERY angry, stubbornly argue against my husband and hate the idea of being "used" by him (when I know that is never what our relationship has been).


You need to better understand sex and men. Spend some time here.

Sex is how men experience and express love. So, feeling like you shouldn't be required to have sex in your marriage is the same as feeling like you shouldn't be required to show you husband love, make him feel loved, and let him show that he loves you. That hurts men.

Let's say your love language is words of affirmation. What really gets you going is when your husband compliments you and tells you that he loves you. Now, what if your husband rebelled against that. What if he said that he hates talking to you. That he shouldn't be required to do it. It would hurt you.

Also, you should spend some time looking into the sexual aspects of a Christian marriage. Read the Song of Songs. Read Corinthians. Go to websites like Christian Nymphos | Married Sex: Spicy, the way God intended it to be!

You can reconcile a healthy, sexual marriage with your faith. It just takes work. You just need to recognize that, if you feel like God doesn't want you to have sex with your husband, then you have probably misinterpreted God's wishes.

Good luck.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

PumpkinPie said:


> It is what id love to do. But in practical terms, you tell me what getting over it means. Not wanting to, being in a bad place, but having sex anyway? That would make things much worse.


Ideally, getting over it means changing your attitude entirely so that your bad moods and resentment either doesn't happen, or happens rarely. Part of that is recognizing that your moods aren't rational.

Look, most children are afraid of the dark. It's a universal fear that's hard wired into our brains from thousands of years of fighting for survival against things that can see better than we can in the dark. Today, it's a useless fear. But even adults struggle against it. Most of us have watched a scary movie and then had our heart race after we turn out all the lights and walk to our bedroom. But we don't indulge our primitive fear and act like children. We just face it and power through.

The saying is, "fake it 'till you make it." And it has practical applications. Smiling, even when you're depressed, has been proven to improve your mood all by itself. You don't feel like smiling. But smiling helps. Sex is the same way. Sex releases hormones that improve your mood, increase your libido, and bond you to your husband. So have sex.

Good luck.


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## PumpkinPie (Apr 30, 2013)

Thanks for that, that's a really interesting way of looking at it and makes a good bit of sense to me. However, I am an atheist. I was brought up religiously but I do believe that did much more harm than good, so I won't be heading down the religious route with finding a solution. It is fantastic to know that not everyone is a Puritan though!


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

Is there by any chance a correlation between your mental moods for sex and your hormone cycle?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

PumkinPie...were you sexually abused? If you were then you have a direction to seek help for. I am asking this because it is typical for women who have been abused to then feel kinda wonky and conflicted about sex when they become adults.

If you have not been abused, then where do you associate your earliest thoughts of being "used" by your husband from?


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## GoDucks (May 19, 2010)

My initial thought is an impression that might help your perspective... You signed up to be his sexual fantasy woman forever. You. Him. Every crazy fantasy. Nobody else signs up for that job. You sure don't want anyone else doing it, right? So, do you want his fantasies to come true? Remember, he signed up to do the same for you, too. So - if you sometimes think about doing some crazy stuff, then there is one guy to ask - him! Don't be afraid (and he cannot read your mind): share!

As for the expectations of men and whatnot... I see that a lot, and the truth is you need to figure out how to raise the bar. It is my opinion that men don't want to be less industrious in the home, but we all fill these crazy roles. Ask for help. Expect help. Help him, too. Again back to the team thing. You acknowledge the imbalance you saw as a kid. You just have to work to get it better in your own life.

I get that I live in a hippy place, but these things can work in a way that works for YOU and HIM. If he cooks you a fabulous meal, and you like mowing the lawn, that doesn't mean anything except that the chores get done. Toss out the rules and roles you *think* our society has expected, and just do what works for you. HAVE GREAT SEX! Share a fantasy. Push the envelope. It's exciting! You can do it! Sharing it all with him will be scary to say at first, and then hot, hot, hot. As it should be.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Your husband loves you and is spending the rest of his life with you.

He only wants sex with you.

He doesn't go out, party and mess around.

If he only always wanted sex from you, it would be every day, 7 days per week.

Us men need sex for our health. It reduces the chances of heart issues by up to 50% when only having sex 3x per week. It also gets rid of our daily stress and increases our energy levels. It bonds us to our women more than words will ever do. Men are built on testosterone, the sex hormone, so we are bigger, stronger and have much higher sex drives. We are built this way. Women seem to always forget this.

Communicate with him what your fantasies are and come to a middle ground to how much sex you both would like from each other every week and actually stick to it.

Take the sexual initiative by wearing something sexy, school girl outfit, maid, you get the idea. Wait for him in the shower for a quickie before he goes to work, which would be a very nice surprise for him and would make his day. Try different things like your feet foot job, even anal, spice things up.

He loves you and wants to only have sex with you and no other woman. If you deny him that, he will eventually start to wander.......all men do when they're sexually starved.

If you are a LD woman, go to your Dr. and get some meds to increase your hormones back to normal levels.

I am a God fearing man "Christian" but I'm HD and could have sex every day and sometimes 2 - 3x day. My belief has nothing to do with my sex drive.

If you have past issues the negatively effect your sex life, go see a therapist and get MC. The sooner the better because if its not addressed, you might get divorced down the road.


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## PumpkinPie (Apr 30, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> PumkinPie...were you sexually abused? If you were then you have a direction to seek help for. I am asking this because it is typical for women who have been abused to then feel kinda wonky and conflicted about sex when they become adults.
> 
> If you have not been abused, then where do you associate your earliest thoughts of being "used" by your husband from?


Hello, thanks for replying. No I don't believe I've ever been abused, thank goodness. But literally yesterday I found out some disturbing things about abuse in my extended family which would relate to my mum when she was tiny. I've remarked before to my husband that it's odd that I remember being petrified of being alone with a man when I was as young as 4, it certainly makes sense now. I can't talk to my mum about it without betraying the person who told me, so I can't really have *that* conversation, but it makes the whole puzzle make a lot more sense.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

PumpkinPie said:


> So, (increasingly) long story short...I seem to have 2 personalities when it comes to intimacy. Not just sex, but even kissing. I'll either feel "free" and not worry, be natural, intimacy naturally happens...or I'll be very VERY angry, stubbornly argue against my husband and hate the idea of being "used" by him (when I know that is never what our relationship has been).
> 
> x


I've been in much the same situation for most of my marriage. Though for me, the "free" part didn't happen until relatively recently. I'd always thought of men as little more than overgrown children, demanding their wants be filled, pouting and petulant if they didn't get what they wanted. Yet, I was still very attracted to men....I got off on hating them LOL. I married young and virgin (barely) and almost immediately sex was a problem. And it stayed a problem for a good 8 years or so. I thought he just wanted to USE me to scratch an itch and HOW DARE HE approach me for THAT? And why was HE always wanting it? Couldn't he control himself and just get over it? Ugh, it made me so mad. 

I still don't know what happened but something changed in me. I softened up a bit. I stumbled across this site when DH and I were going through a particularly rough spot and did a lot of reading here. Hearing from men what sex really meant to them helped me change my views. Even though my hubs had tried to tell me the same things I was reading here, it didn't affect me when he said it. When it came from him, I thought he was just playing me, trying to get me to give in. When it was from anonymous strangers that were not invested in my reaction, and when so many were saying the same things.....I started to change and see my husband with less anger and less resentment. 

I still struggle with some of my old views about men. It's a strange situation I am in. Most of the people I choose to socialize with are men. I get along with men. I understand them, to a point. Men really like me. But I will never ever ever trust them. And that does affect my marriage. Every single day. It is an ongoing struggle to remind myself everyday that my husband is not an evil man. That he hasn't been hiding a dark side to himself. That he isn't out to hurt me, that he doesn't WANT to hurt me. That he isn't using me.....that is a big one. 

I have had a hard time reconciling my views on men with my friendships with men. I guess I can't even say they are friendships since I think they are all capable of being so evil behind closed doors. So let's say I befriend the persona I think men are projecting, but am hateful and extremely wary of the persons I feel they *REALLY* are underneath the charm. I know that isn't entirely rational, and it has done a number on my marriage. 

But that is why I was always up in arms against my husband. I was a stubborn, angry, and aggressive person. Still am, but have toned it down A LOT. And life is much much sweeter now.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lady, I can't remember, were you sexually abused?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Lady, I can't remember, were you sexually abused?


I have some very clear memories of some very bad things, but nothing to conclusively say yes or no. But the more I read, the more I research, it is clear that I do fit the description of someone who was abused. It would make sense of the memories I have. But there is no point at this stage in digging that up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

That is true, no point in digging it up, per se. But it might help everyone, yourself included, to understand that your views may have been highly influenced by that type of experience. Most women don't hate and fear men like what you are describing...it is not a "natural" response to men, except for women and boys/men who have been abused in some way.

So it is kind of hard to hear a woman fearing and hating so harshly, without also projecting that this woman experienced something outside of normal, healthy sexual behavior. It is not really fair to present your view without also understanding that influence.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I have some very clear memories of some very bad things, but nothing to conclusively say yes or no. But the more I read, the more I research, it is clear that I do fit the description of someone who was abused. It would make sense of the memories I have. But there is no point at this stage in digging that up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why not? You admit to fighting daily to remind yourself that your "husband is not an evil man." You clearly believe all men are evil. Is that healthy?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> That is true, no point in digging it up, per se. But it might help everyone, yourself included, to understand that your views may have been highly influenced by that type of experience. Most women don't hate and fear men like what you are describing...it is not a "natural" response to men, except for women and boys/men who have been abused in some way.
> 
> So it is kind of hard to hear a woman fearing and hating so harshly, without also projecting that this woman experienced something outside of normal, healthy sexual behavior. It is not really fair to present your view without also understanding that influence.


But I can't say for sure one way or the other. I do have some pretty damning memories, but they are from so long ago. Who's to say if they are even real? My dad was an abusive a$$hole, but he never abused me that way. He liked me. He was hard on my mum and my brother. Men present themselves as jerks, IMO. All this "alpha" business. Wanting to be in charge of women, controlling them. All the violence perpetrated against women....it isn't women hurting other women....it's men. Men attack children and women because they are weaker. I *know* not all men are like this, probably not even *most* men, but I won't trust or respect or admire men as a whole when I know how vile they can be. As for being friendly with them.....they are a bit like pet dogs. I know what they want from me, I know how much to give and how much to hold back and I know that misjudging one could be a lethal mistake. 

Sorry for the threadjack OP, I hope you come back with more of your own story.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I have a female friend who dated a guy who was sexually abused by his own mother. My friend had no experience with sexual abuse and knew nothing about it, so even though she knew this about him, she didn't really understand what being in a relationship with him would mean.

What it did mean was that it was a sexless relationship, and that her boyfriend hated and feared women so much that he could not bear to be intimate with one.

I'm pointing this out only to show that when a man has been abused by a woman, the same hatred and fear occurs.

So it would really help you and others to realize that you did come by this feeling about men by some experience in your life. And that if that experience had not occured, you might view men/life differently.

This is similar, to me, to thinking about how you (anyone) might end up being a racist or classist if you had been raised differently.

You are not "right" about men, the way you think you are. You simply have assumed that your experience, which shaped your views, have shown you the "right" vision of the world. But you are incorrect in your assumption. Which you have clearly stated already that you are beginning to realize (by reading so many men talk about their need for love and closeness through sex).

Why not take the next step and examine your need to hate?


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## PumpkinPie (Apr 30, 2013)

oscarsmom said:


> PumpkinPie - you are not alone in this! Have you ever heard of the book No More Headaches: Enjoying Sex and Intimacy in Marriage by Dr. Julianna Slattery? It has been a God-send to many who have also struggled in this area in their marriage. You maybe able to get it at your local library or bookstore. Blessings!


Thank you! No I haven't heard of this book, I'll certainly look it up online. I've tried reading other books about the same subject, but they're very...not me about it all. So it feels a bit fake, they're all over-the-top "aren't we naughty" which just feels like a joke to me. But your suggestion sounds totally different. 

Thanks to everyone for your insights, I'm sorry I haven't replied in so long. Things are improving here, mainly since I found out some awful truths regarding an important figure in my life. The knowledge has made my attitude to sex make more sense, so while it's hard working through the revelation it's also made me feel like less of a freak, that it's not all down to me being somehow abnormal. 

Thanks again x


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