# This just needs to be said.



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

After reading one too many threads in the last week I have to say it. Passive men get cheated on. That is just the facts, just like rain is wet if you're passive, not assertive in your life, with your wife, or just relationships in general, you run the risk of being cheated on, period. Of course not all but lots and lots. If she DOES cheat and you passively whine and don't fight back you are going to get abused, and she ain't going to stop. It plays out on here and other sites multiple times a day. If you don't respect yourself your wife is not going to respect you. It's like the person who just gives away stuff for free, if you give it away for free that is exactly what people are going to think it's worth. That includes, respect, and affection. Everyone you are with should have to earn your time and affection. 

Besides all that I am convinced women want there husbands to BE STRONG emotionally. It makes them feel safe. They don't want to be with a guy who is more emotional then one of their girlfriends. Who doesn't lead and let them relax. They have that with their girlfriends. Besides that ever notice how your wife's job effects her more emotionally then your job does you? This is in her nature, she looks to you to be a strong safe haven. A rock to plant emotional roots. If you are not doing that she is going to find someone else who does. Again not all, but even if she doesn't she is going to lose attraction to you. Or at the very least be too overwhelmed to feel relaxed and want to be intimate in other ways. 

I know I am pushing buttons with some people here but It needs to be said, I don't care if you don't like it. It's the damn truth. 

My hypothesis is that passivity and wimpiness is about as attractive to most wives as a morbidly obese wife is to most husbands. Again not PC but I am saying that to illustrate a point. If she sees that you easily allow yourself to be taken advantage of, and don't demand respect she will start believing you don't deserve it. Now maybe you married a unicorn but I doubt it. Besides all that get your **** together and stand up for yourself. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect! I love you doesn't mean I am willing to have you treat me however you want. Value yourself!

I want to add here I am not talking about yelling and being abusive (doing that will make her respect you less and rightfully so), I am talking about being firm and saying. No you don't have a right to treat me like that and if you do there will be a problem. You can do that respectfully BUT FIRMLY. This is not wrong, it's actually healthy both people should do this in a relationship. It's like working out, or tempering steal. It keeps your partner on their toes. 



_Example. Wife: "I am going to start going out with my girlfriends to singles bars once a week."
Husband: "Not if you're married to me you're not."
Wife: "How dare you be so controlling"
Husband: "I'm not controlling you are free to do whatever you want, but if you want to be married to me you aren't going to be acting like you are single. If you want to be single just tell me and you can do that on your own time but not in a house that I help pay for, while also getting my affection. It's your choice. If that is controlling to you, then I am controlling. 

As long as you are my wife, then you are mine. I covet you, you are too important and valuable to me to let other guys fall all over you. And I know they will because I do all the time. You are free to decide."_​


It's really that simple. The Husband in my scenario didn't do anything that was unreasonable. Hell the last part will probably make your wife want to stay the week in your arms assuming she is into you. 

Actually it shouldn't get to this point. I am often stuck that my wife wouldn't even ask the question. I don't think she would want to but even if she did she knows better. Why doesn't YOUR wife. 

By the way this scenario would hold true if the genders were reversed, but I don't feel I have the right to talk to wives as I am not a wife. 

Now I am sure there will be some "progressive" people who will post how much crap this is, but follow that advice at your own risk. Even the most liberated progressive women doesn't want to be stuck with a wishy washy man. Give them an assertive man who has his **** together and she will still lust after him even if she keeps it to herself. Just read the posts, it's proven over and over. You can't change human nature. 

If this is you, go fix yourself or you are going to get bit in the end. 

WOMEN CHEAT ON PASSIVE MEN.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

I do believe this to be true.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I agree. Not so much with the fact that a wife will likely cheat on a too-passive guy, just that it's harder to find wimpy guys like this attractive. I honestly can't respect a man who would let me call the shots and wear the pants. Sooooo unattractive.

However, this would just seem too caveman-ish for me:

*"As long as you are my wife, then you are mine. I covet you, you are too important and valuable to me to let other guys fall all over you. And I know they will because I do all the time. You are free to decide."*


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I agree. Not so much with the fact that a wife will likely cheat on a too-passive guy, just that it's harder to find wimpy guys like this attractive. I honestly can't respect a man who would let me call the shots and wear the pants. Sooooo unattractive.
> 
> However, this would just seem too caveman-ish for me:
> 
> *"As long as you are my wife, then you are mine. I covet you, you are too important and valuable to me to let other guys fall all over you. And I know they will because I do all the time. You are free to decide."*


If that was the only way I relate to my wife I would agree but I can also do the romantic stuff and can have long intellectual discussions. But when I am being territorial a little caveman goes a long way.

A man needs to find his own style but he still needs to impart the basic point. If we are married then I have a right to expect boundaries.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I should have had a mentor that taught me this in my life but this was my dad. He was the ultimate nice guy who chose to go along to get along. It took me until I was 50 to realize that me and my brothers had morphed into him and we have all gone through the same challenges in our marriages with wives frustrated that for much of our marriages we chose to let them lead. Discovering this problem, in large part because of this site, has likely saved 3 out of 4 marriages in the family.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

sokillme said:


> After reading one too many threads in the last week I have to say it. Passive men get cheated on. That is just the facts, just like rain is wet if you're passive, not assertive in your life, with your wife, or just relationships in general, you run the risk of being cheated on, period. Of course not all but lots and lots. If she DOES cheat and you passively whine and don't fight back you are going to get abused, and she ain't going to stop. It plays out on here and other sites multiple times a day. If you don't respect yourself your wife is not going to respect you. It's like the person who just gives away stuff for free, if you give it away for free that is exactly what people are going to think it's worth. That includes, respect, and affection. Everyone you are with should have to earn your time and affection.
> 
> Besides all that I am convinced women want there husbands to BE STRONG emotionally. It makes them feel safe. They don't want to be with a guy who is more emotional then one of their girlfriends. Who doesn't lead and let them relax. They have that with their girlfriends. Besides that ever notice how your wife's job effects her more emotionally then your job does you? This is in her nature, she looks to you to be a strong safe haven. A rock to plant emotional roots. If you are not doing that she is going to find someone else who does. Again not all, but even if she doesn't she is going to lose attraction to you. Or at the very least be too overwhelmed to feel relaxed and want to be intimate in other ways.
> 
> ...


All that you describe is due to a very simple, straightforward, and uncontrollable truth called Nature. 

Consciously or subconsciously, wrapped in smiles, tin foil, rainbows, sunshine, and whatever, women are analyzing all of you for the qualities that make an ultimate man that fits their needs. It doesn't matter if they're romantically involved with you or not. 

THIS is why you see that phrase "good men are hard to find." Many men laugh at this and think they're great. Well, it's not up to them to decide if they're good or not. It's up to the millions of years of evolutionary programming built into woman brain.


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

I must admit this is the best post i have read on TAM regarding my position exactly, this could be me in a nutshell. My wife had numerous affairs since we married, i never could understand it and she was not too forthcoming with any ideas why she cheated. I am not too passive but i just let everybody use me, friends and family just had to ask and i was there, i am tall and used to be a boxer but that is something separate i think, what sokillme is referencing her is what never gets said between partners, what really attracts men to women and vice versa, it is the real you that your partner sees in you something that she may not fully understand but is very important to her when choosing a partner in life. 
I always took my wife back when she had an affair, i always just blocked out the fact she rejected me and took another man for a while, some were over quickly some dragged on for years, i never confronted her and warned her that it would be over if she had another EA. My mistake was to heal to quickly our marriage and get it back to some kind of normality, huge mistake. I should have set her a few ground rules that i should have stuck to, but i didn't. "Yes you can go away with the girls this weekend", "sure you can go clubbing tomorrow", "yes, go out and enjoy yourself with the guys from work",,,but i you ever even think about cheating the repercussions will be huge for you, i mean it, i will find out and that will be it,,,this is what i should have been like, more aggressive but only in the " if you break up this marriage you will be sorry so don't risk it ". I now realise that i could have been ore assertive in keeping my marriage together by making her see that i could give her room to enjoy herself but she would have been nervous to try anything as it would have been negative for her so she wouldn't have maybe taken that risk. My wife came round last friday, her car was dirty, i said i will wash it whilst she spoke with our son, i regretted it instantly, their i am cleaning away thinking that i was here again, just being used to put a smile on her face, never again. It is difficult to break a habit, being the person that does everything but forgetting about me, what do i need, i need to be more assertive, more difficult to read, i should have less time for people and let them earn my time and skills, what is said in this great post is to give everything away cheaply is how i would be judged, an easy touch. I will in future i will be too busy to get involved with this as i need to forget about the old me, strap on a pair and see the world for what it is, full of people who at the drop of a hat use me, then abuse me, that was the old me for sure. Goodbye old friend, where is my gym gear, i will be to busy today to fix that door handle, seal that bath, fix that window, you would be better phoning somebody else. Great Post Sokillme.

Love and Peace always

KevinZX


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Spot on.

I have an older half-brother; very nice guy, good sense of humor, easy to be around, but passive. Married twice, cheated on both times.

My father in law; great guy, but passive. Divorced long before I met my wife due to her mother's cheating,

My wife's brother inherited that passive personality. His wife cheated on him as well. 

Each of these unions produced two children befor dissolving.

My son got that very nice, but rather passive personality. He gets along with everyone, can fit into any social circle, and is very popular. But so we're all those other guys. My number one parenting goal with him has been to teach him there are times a man needs to take charge, to initiate, to set the tone to LEAD. He needs to be true to himself?, but there are times he needs to grow beyond that as well.

I knew this from watching all these real life examples, but my time on TAM has totally confirmed this hypothesis. I don't want my son to go through what so many others have.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

> Women cheat on passive men.


That's certainly often true. But not the entire story. Women will also cheat on men even if they are confident and assertive if they also: abuse them, neglect them, are lousy lovers, etc. - but it's a lot less likely. If they do/are any of these things _and_ are passive too, it becomes more likely they'll be cheated on - or the women walk away.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

@sokillme

AMEN BROTHER AMEN.....your spot on 

now would you mine posting it at that other site that carters to passive men. ;-)


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

KevinZX said:


> I must admit this is the best post i have read on TAM regarding my position exactly, this could be me in a nutshell. My wife had numerous affairs since we married, i never could understand it and she was not too forthcoming with any ideas why she cheated. I am not too passive but i just let everybody use me, friends and family just had to ask and i was there, i am tall and used to be a boxer but that is something separate i think, what sokillme is referencing her is what never gets said between partners, what really attracts men to women and vice versa, it is the real you that your partner sees in you something that she may not fully understand but is very important to her when choosing a partner in life.
> I always took my wife back when she had an affair, i always just blocked out the fact she rejected me and took another man for a while, some were over quickly some dragged on for years, i never confronted her and warned her that it would be over if she had another EA. My mistake was to heal to quickly our marriage and get it back to some kind of normality, huge mistake. I should have set her a few ground rules that i should have stuck to, but i didn't. "Yes you can go away with the girls this weekend", "sure you can go clubbing tomorrow", "yes, go out and enjoy yourself with the guys from work",,,but i you ever even think about cheating the repercussions will be huge for you, i mean it, i will find out and that will be it,,,this is what i should have been like, more aggressive but only in the " if you break up this marriage you will be sorry so don't risk it ". I now realise that i could have been ore assertive in keeping my marriage together by making her see that i could give her room to enjoy herself but she would have been nervous to try anything as it would have been negative for her so she wouldn't have maybe taken that risk. My wife came round last friday, her car was dirty, i said i will wash it whilst she spoke with our son, i regretted it instantly, their i am cleaning away thinking that i was here again, just being used to put a smile on her face, never again. It is difficult to break a habit, being the person that does everything but forgetting about me, what do i need, i need to be more assertive, more difficult to read, i should have less time for people and let them earn my time and skills, what is said in this great post is to give everything away cheaply is how i would be judged, an easy touch. I will in future i will be too busy to get involved with this as i need to forget about the old me, strap on a pair and see the world for what it is, full of people who at the drop of a hat use me, then abuse me, that was the old me for sure. Goodbye old friend, where is my gym gear, i will be to busy today to fix that door handle, seal that bath, fix that window, you would be better phoning somebody else. Great Post Sokillme.
> 
> Love and Peace always
> ...


KeninZX,
Your problem is that you are a more highly developed individual in a mostly underdeveloped environment. I am as you in that I have great empathy for others and often try to help even at my own sacrifice. I feel that when someone asks for help they are as I would be, desperate for assistance and I have great difficulty refusing people in serious need. However, I have learned over the years that people often ask for help for many other reasons including just being plain lazy. It has taken me considerable time to realize this and even now I have moments where I find it hard to refuse people but I do.

I personally do not feel you are passive nor insufficiently assertive GIVEN everyone was developed cognitively to approximately the same level which THEY ARE NOT. There is a huge disparity in developmental levels from person to person, therefore your behavior would appear passive to some, perhaps many but it would appear reasonable to those of similar intellect. You simply expect from others something similar to the way you would act/react. If you could find a woman similarly cognizant your "passiveness" would be deeply appreciated, even cherished however, with a woman of lacking intellect, it is seen as DOORMAT (wipe feet here) and they would instinctively lose interest and be on the search for a more "alpha" male. Perhaps we should be pack animals, living in caves. It would more closely align with our mentality.

So then, as it pertains to relationships, is it better to become more assertive or to find a more cognizant woman? I advise the latter but it is ultimately an individual decision. One poster wrote about it being an innate evolved response for women to "size up" men but should we not reach a level of cognizance wherein the intellect overrides the instinctual? Sadly, we are far from that position and even appear to be regressing. So, although I would prefer to find a more highly developed partner, given the current state of human development, it would be the more difficult of the two options.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I can agree with this. 

On the other side it's been my experience that men don't care for needy women with no boundaries, as they aren't challenges and men like to chase.

Or at the very least they will abuse poor boundaries.

Oh, you have lots of female "friends" that you need to have meals with?

**** off, go find a sucker who buys your bull****.

Oh, that's controlling and I can't tell you who to be friends with? Nope..... you are free to befriend anyone you want, but I'm free to decide what I'm willing to put up with.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> That's certainly often true. But not the entire story. Women will also cheat on men even if they are confident and assertive if they also: abuse them, neglect them, are lousy lovers, etc. - but it's a lot less likely. If they do/are any of these things _and_ are passive too, it becomes more likely they'll be cheated on - or the women walk away.


All that doesn't make what I said untrue. I never said assertive men don't get cheated on as well. Now that you bring it up though being assertive gives you better tools to deal with getting cheated on as well.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lostinthought61 said:


> @sokillme
> 
> AMEN BROTHER AMEN.....your spot on
> 
> now would you mine posting it at that other site that carters to passive men. ;-)


I was banned. >


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

sokillme said:


> All that doesn't make what I said untrue. I never said assertive men don't get cheated on as well. Now that you bring it up though being assertive gives you better tools to deal with getting cheated on as well.


Did I say it was untrue? No. I agreed with you, then expanded upon it. And yes, being assertive gives you better tools.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

KevinZX said:


> I must admit this is the best post i have read on TAM regarding my position exactly, this could be me in a nutshell. My wife had numerous affairs since we married, i never could understand it and she was not too forthcoming with any ideas why she cheated. I am not too passive but i just let everybody use me, friends and family just had to ask and i was there, i am tall and used to be a boxer but that is something separate i think, what sokillme is referencing her is what never gets said between partners, what really attracts men to women and vice versa, it is the real you that your partner sees in you something that she may not fully understand but is very important to her when choosing a partner in life.
> I always took my wife back when she had an affair, i always just blocked out the fact she rejected me and took another man for a while, some were over quickly some dragged on for years, i never confronted her and warned her that it would be over if she had another EA. My mistake was to heal to quickly our marriage and get it back to some kind of normality, huge mistake. I should have set her a few ground rules that i should have stuck to, but i didn't. "Yes you can go away with the girls this weekend", "sure you can go clubbing tomorrow", "yes, go out and enjoy yourself with the guys from work",,,but i you ever even think about cheating the repercussions will be huge for you, i mean it, i will find out and that will be it,,,this is what i should have been like, more aggressive but only in the " if you break up this marriage you will be sorry so don't risk it ". I now realise that i could have been ore assertive in keeping my marriage together by making her see that i could give her room to enjoy herself but she would have been nervous to try anything as it would have been negative for her so she wouldn't have maybe taken that risk. My wife came round last friday, her car was dirty, i said i will wash it whilst she spoke with our son, i regretted it instantly, their i am cleaning away thinking that i was here again, just being used to put a smile on her face, never again. It is difficult to break a habit, being the person that does everything but forgetting about me, what do i need, i need to be more assertive, more difficult to read, i should have less time for people and let them earn my time and skills, what is said in this great post is to give everything away cheaply is how i would be judged, an easy touch. I will in future i will be too busy to get involved with this as i need to forget about the old me, strap on a pair and see the world for what it is, full of people who at the drop of a hat use me, then abuse me, that was the old me for sure. Goodbye old friend, where is my gym gear, i will be to busy today to fix that door handle, seal that bath, fix that window, you would be better phoning somebody else. Great Post Sokillme.
> 
> Love and Peace always
> ...


May I add, it's not the time you spend on people it's the not saying NO when you want to. You can be Mother Teresa if you want to be but if you do it because you are afraid to say no then your reasons are dishonest. 

As far as your wife goes. After the second time cheating you need to figure out why that would not be a deal breaker. Something is wrong there. Why don't you think it would be better just to move on and find someone else. Even if you were a jerk no one deserves to be treated so poorly. Also a 3 times cheater is not a wife, and it's not even really a marriage or what a true marriage feels like. You my friend are selling your life short. There is better for you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Did I say it was untrue? No. I agreed with you, then expanded upon it. And yes, being assertive gives you better tools.


You're right. I read it wrong. I'm too assertive! >


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

sokillme said:


> You're right. I read it wrong. I'm too assertive! >


And humble. Don't forget humble.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Totally agree with you, sokillme. 

What advice would you give to your adult sons? What about your adult daughters?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Are passive men cheated on more often? Are there any studies to support that? (assuming correction for things other than passive or aggressive).


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm female and am definitely not attracted to passive men but I'm not attracted to passive females as friends either. I guess I admire strength in a person but I would say that strength has to be tempered by humility. So I guess I look for that balance.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

A few weeks ago, I went to Odo's office, brought some of my own work. We got lunch to go at his favorite place in the area. I'd been there maybe once before. The women who work there know him well.... He's so picky about his food and how it's prepared, and he's a complete BS'er with the staff (all women except the cook). 

He'll tell them to get back in the kitchen where they belong... It's his way of thinking he's being funny, and he knows it riles them up. Riles me up, too! Well, one woman fought him back very well with her own brand of sass. Clearly, she has a spine, and I tell her, "I see why Odo likes it here. You don't put up with his ****! He likes a strong woman who can stand up to his demeaning sense of humor." And this is true... He genuinely respects a woman that will not let him get away with being an arse. She keeps him on his toes. It's his version of the **** test. He pokes and sees if he gets utter shock and insult or if he gets it back in heaps. Hmm... No wonder he's banned. LOL! 

Well, he went back there today for lunch, on his own. I got a text from him saying that the ladies were asking where I was... "She's so nice. Why the heck is she with you?" LOL. I see qualities in him many do not see, or wait around to see, and I know I appreciate them. He's no Chad thunderclock (although he likes to think he is) but that's not really how my brain is wired anyway. He is mentally fortified... That is the kind of partner I need.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> What advice would you give to your adult sons?


Well, I figured it out before they were born, so I've had the opportunity to give advice.

They're pretty well convinced, but there a LOT of mass culture going the other way for me to counter.

And I'm not so much telling them that they shouldn't be passive, just telling them what generally attracts women.

Then it's up to them to decide what to do about it. 

It's important that young people understand how the world *really* works, not how we wish it would work in a more perfect world.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Is anyone aware of marriage that's truly happy when the wife is the dominant one?


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

I've got two, maybe three depending on what you mean by dominant. 

But I'm not real life. Lol.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

I am probably the more dominant one in my relationship, and if you ask, my husband will tell you that he's happy and lucky.

And I have never cheated on him.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

@FrenchFry, @wild jade

Good to see you two show up.

It's weird how on TAM, topics like this one'll get a bunch of women agreeing and the women you'd expect to object never make an appearance.

Then you get the threads going the other way and the women who show up here don't show.

For the record, I have no particular interest in being the "leader" in my marriage. But, if it's not against my nature and it makes my wife happy, I'll oblige.

It was, however, very helpful to learn that when discussing where to go eat or what movie to watch that my high earner, very capable wife might want me to just make a decision and that stuff like that would get her hot.

I read about this before meeting my wife, so that was helpful. 

I never would have figured it out on my own.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

wild jade said:


> I am probably the more dominant one in my relationship, and if you ask, my husband will tell you that he's happy and lucky.
> 
> And I have never cheated on him.


The question was if the *wife* was happy.

edit: Well that was the intent of my comment, even though I didn't actually manage to say that.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> The question was if the *wife* was happy.


Actually no, you said



Buddy400 said:


> Is anyone aware of *marriage* that's truly happy when the wife is the dominant one?


I read that to ask whether the MARRIAGE is a happy one. Not whether the WIFE is happy.

Anyway. I am the dominant one for sure, most of the time. He can and does put his foot down on certain things once in a while. And I am happy for the most part. There are times, and I vocalize it, when he just needs to MAKE A DECISION already. And I could use more '****ing' and less 'making love' overall. But yes, I am happy.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mine is - happy. 

But - there's always a an overall landscape. If you jacked her aggression and control issues - into my physical sleeve - you'd have an intolerable situation. Because now you'd have a situation where the mechanically stronger person was also the emotionally stronger person. 

Instead we have this - dynamic - that works. And I am not passive. 

Mechanical:
- Financial strength
- Physical strength
- Intelligence/problem solving skills
- Touch aptitude 
- Health

Emotional:
- Charisma (includes humor)
- Determination 
- Discipline
- Passion
- Overall lovableness (this includes your baseline level of happiness)





Buddy400 said:


> Is anyone aware of marriage that's truly happy when the wife is the dominant one?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> @FrenchFry, @wild jade
> 
> Good to see you two show up.
> 
> ...


I think you took my meaning when I say your wife wants to you lead, to mean she wants you to boss her. That is not what I meant, I mean being assertive. That's different. It's more like, something is broken in the house and you fix it. She doesn't have to tell you. Someone is being unkind to her you tell them to cut it out. Her car is mess up you make a appointment to get it fixed. It's not, we are buying this house because I am the boss. 

It's also for example, "no you are not going to continue to talk to me like I am one of your kids, that will stop now. I deserve to be talked to like anyone else in your life, just because you are my wife doesn't mean you get to talk down to me unlike anyone else you would have in your life." 

Personally my wife and I are a partnership, but I am assertive.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> And I could use more '****ing' and less 'making love' overall. But yes, I am happy.


You tell him this right?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Totally agree with you, sokillme.
> 
> What advice would you give to your adult sons? What about your adult daughters?


Asking me for advice isn't contributing to my lack of humility you understand. >

I pondered this and after much thought I came back to what I have posted it here many times. Get your self worth from your own character. It's the only thing you can control, and if you have good character all the other things will fall in place. (doesn't mean you won't have some hard times) You will succeed in your career because your character will make you work hard even though you don't want to. You will have good friendships because your character will make you loyal and a good friend. It's also kind of like a life hack because if you get self worth from it, it will make you want to do right more often. So doing the right thing will become a selfish motivation and therefore easy. 

I am sure this is not the answer you thought I would give, you probably thought I would talk about who to pick, or how to act. You are probably also asking how does this relate. Well here is the thing. Once you see character as the most important thing you will learn to look for it in others and you will find it attractive. That will help you choose a good wife or husband. 

Finally it will make you confident and less dependent on others for you self esteem and happiness. This in turn will give you the strength to stick up for yourself because you will know your worth and be willing to just move on if you are not getting a fair deal. All your choices can be made from a position of strength. If you expect it in yourself you will also not feel guilty to expect it in others, which is a good thing in my mind. This leads to something that IS important to teach your kids as it relates to character. To me allowing someone to repeatedly abuse you shows a very definite lack of character. You have a responsibility to stick up for people who are being abused and to some extent stand up to bullies, that includes yourself, and someone bullying you. That would be something I teach my kids. I don't believe in emotional martyrdom. 

The point being the more I think about this the more I get back to you need to be confident enough to not settle. Confident enough to have good boundaries. I mean how many post on SI do you see from BS asking are they being unfair when they are just expecting behaviors from their WS which should just be the basics of relationships. A lot of times I notice this and it's a big red flag. It's like they feel guilty for wanting their spouses to have just the basic level of boundaries in any relationship let alone romantic partnerships. I think this is part of the problem, there is a lack of understanding and confidence in the BS and that has allowed the WS to get away with abuse unquestioned. 

So how can you consistently be confident. To me I haven't found anything that isn't transient in life besides character. Money, looks, jobs, achievements, health and even friends can all go away. Many of these things are subject to outside forces that you have little if any control over. Who you are as a person, your honor, our character can only change if you let it. You have total control over ever decision you make in life. So it just goes to follow that that should be what you invest in. 

I say that with all humility.


.
.
.
Oh who am I kidding, but you asked.


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

:grin2: I actually wasn't counting myself in the count but I might. It depends on your perspective.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Actually no, you said
> 
> 
> I read that to ask whether the MARRIAGE is a happy one. Not whether the WIFE is happy.
> ...


You're quite right.

I did misquote myself  

I must have added the edit as you were responding.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

sokillme said:


> I think you took my meaning when I say your wife wants to you lead, to mean she wants you to boss her.


We need a glossary of accepted meanings of different words.

"Leader" as used by many men (and some women) seems to mean that the "leader" is in control of everything. I believe many women actually do want that and I have no interest in it.

When it came to many choices, my primary goal was my wife's happiness. So, it seemed like letting her make the decision was the right thing to do. I had no idea that would make women see me as passive and undesirable. Who would object to deciding what they wanted to do?

First, I had to learn to value my happiness and be assertive about what I wanted.

Then I had to learn that, for some reason, my wife liked it better when she didn't have to make decisions and that doing what I wanted was actually what she preferred. So, if I'm truly neutral, I'll just make a quick decision one way or another. It's a little thing that, had I known about earlier, I'd have done all along. 

Who knew?


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Great thread! I completely agree with the opening post with being assertive. I haven't met too many people that want to be with push overs except exceedingly controling jerks. And I have seen a couple but it's true in general.



sokillme said:


> I pondered this and after much thought I came back to what I have posted it here many times. *Get your self worth from your own character. It's the only thing you can control,* and if you have good character all the other things will fall in place. (doesn't mean you won't have some hard times) You will succeed in your career because your character will make you work hard even though you don't want to. You will have good friendships because your character will make you loyal and a good friend. It's also kind of like a life hack because if you get self worth from it, it will make you want to do right more often. So doing the right thing will become a selfish motivation and therefore easy.


Hope's question is a good one that every parent should think about. We had a similar talk with our kids and the bolded part was emphasized. However it's not the only piece they need to succeed. To be assertive is to know who you are and what you want out of life. From that knowledge comes what you want to assert. 

One thing that I have noticed here and with my relationships is that most of us when single have an idea of what we want and we live towards that goal. That goal could be substantial like obtaining a certain position in a career or it could be simple like wanting to enjoy seeing the world. What ever it is when we meet and date another that falls in love with us, they are falling in love with that person that is independant with whatever goals you had.

The problem is that life's priorities often change our goals so that after awhile we are different or appear different from the people our spouses fell in love with. 

I have a friend who was carefree but was pursuing a specific career when he got married. He is a person of good character and a very hard worker. His carefree nature which was fun at first when they didnt have kids developed into a rut of staying in the same job and not growing. His wife struggles with this. He has attained what he wanted and is keeping things the same. His wife sees him as non-assertive because he is not moving up in his career and where they live etc.

In my case I stopped being the person I was and put too much time into being a provider. I moved up at work and with our finances but this led me further away from the person my wife fell in love with much like my friend but we were extremes at different ends.

We both have good character but our priorities were out of whack. 




sokillme said:


> So how can you consistently be confident. To me I haven't found anything that isn't transient in life besides character. Money, looks, jobs, achievements, health and even friends can all go away. Many of these things are subject to outside forces that you have little if any control over. Who you are as a person, your honor, our character can only change if you let it. You have total control over ever decision you make in life. So it just goes to follow that that should be what you invest in.


So I maintain that you can be consistently confident when you feed your soul and achieve the goals you want in proportion to other priorities. You need to keep being the person your spouse fell in love with by embracing the new responsibilities as well not losing yourself to them. This includes helping to enable your spouse to achieve their goals as well. 

Your example of helping without being asked is what partnership means to me. You both work together to live life. 

Unfortunately I lost track of that for a few years and it nearly cost me my marriage. I was assertive in a negative way being too much of a person I wasn't. My marriage improved once I started to be the person I was when we fell in love.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

meson said:


> Great thread! I completely agree with the opening post with being assertive. I haven't met too many people that want to be with push overs except exceedingly controling jerks. And I have seen a couple but it's true in general.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is where the character thing pays off though doesn't it. Assuming you both have it the problems shouldn't have gotten to the beyond redemption point. If you both have good character one your you will have spoken about this and both attempted to fix it. 

All that said character and assertiveness is not a guarantee you will have a successful marriage, it IS in my mind a good insurance that you will not have infidelity and too much destruction in your life even if you don't make it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> Then I had to learn that, for some reason, my wife liked it better when she didn't have to make decisions and that doing what I wanted was actually what she preferred. So, if I'm truly neutral, I'll just make a quick decision one way or another. It's a little thing that, had I known about earlier, I'd have done all along.
> 
> Who knew?


I think this is true for a lot of women, and even some men. It helps them relax and takes the pressure off. With my wife there are times when she wants me to do this and times she doesn't. The times she wants me to do this she usually is not quick about making a choice, it's kind of her tell. I guess I have been with her so long we just know each other. On the other hand big purchase, things like that she usually wants to discuss at length and go over the budget. 

Still my post was more about how you allow yourself to be treated more then anything else. Being assertive enough to stand up for yourself. 

Your situation can also be a problem in marriage too though.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

This is interesting. 

I am drawn to assertive men. I do not feel controlled. I know who I am and am confident in myself, my decisions, and my life. BUT... I am the middle child of 11. Truly "middle child" stuff. I make decisions when I need to. I have been independent for a long time and have had to learn to share/trust/depend on my H. 

Sometimes, he insists that I make the decision. See, as a middle child my life lesson was, it's ok...get along... go along....etc... 

For example, while we are out to eat he will asks what I want (we often share the entre'). I say "Do you want the enchiladas?" He responds that he asked me and wants to know what I want. So I make that decision. 

In my prior marriage...the ex would ask what I want and then completely disregard what I said. So wants didn't matter anyway.... much as a young child in the middle of 11! See? 

I am more aware now. Kind of wish I'd known all this when I was 20!! 

I don't know about the cheating aspect, altho it makes sense. I do think it works both ways, for both genders. And I think that self-awareness makes the difference!


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> The question was if the *wife* was happy.
> 
> edit: Well that was the intent of my comment, even though I didn't actually manage to say that.


I dated lots of guys before my husband, and have learned that I really can't be with someone who wants to tell me what to do or take charge. I've always been very independent, and have zero desire to give that up.

If my husband were a spineless wimp of the sort that @sokillme describes, then yes, I would trample all over him and quickly lose interest. I agree that character is very important, and anyone without personality or any sort of sense of self is probably unattractive to most.

But it doesn't make me hot to have someone decide what they want for dinner. And I would just walk away from a guy who wanted to lead me. I've never been the following type. :laugh:


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I think a wimpy spineless woman would be equally unattractive. Well, at least to me. 


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Just as there is a difference between confident and [email protected], there is a difference between strong and controlling/abusive. 

Just being all "no, you can't go out. I'm the man of the house, bark bark bark" isn't going to get you anywhere but looking weak and insecure. 

First and foremost - make sure your wife's needs are filled. Truly is step one to preventing cheating and disrespectful behaviour. One cannot be a strong man without a tender side. Date her, bring her a treat, listen to her, do your part around the house without being asked, make the home and you a pleasant place to be. 

B- don't be a hypocrite. If you go on boys nights, you don't get to say no to a GNO. Practice what you preach and behave in the way you want your wife to. Don't lock your phone, don't like hot girl pics on instagram, don't take your eyes off the road when you see the hottie walking on the sidewalk. She is yours, then treat her like the only one. 

Now you have a woman who has her needs met, excitement, dates and outside the home having fun time, confidence boosters from the man she should be getting confidence boosters from and she'll be much more receptive to "no, you're not going on that GNO. I don't want my wife in that situation" 

But IMO, unless you've done the groundwork first it's a recipe for disaster and you're only going to be able to bark so long before she'd fed up and just leaves or cheats anyway.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorry I just saw this thread and haven't read through it so may be covering well tread ground. If so sorry - I personally hate posters who come in late and miss the whole thread to that point and yet here I am 

Anyway I disagree - but only in the cause/effect interpretation.

To explain - I'm older - mid 50's - raised on "manly" men like Vic Morrrow's character in the tv show "Combat!"

My dad is also very black and white in terms of male perspectives.

So I never had any ambiguity as to what it meant to be a man - a rock, reliable, honest, considerate (without being emotive and wishy-washy), etc.

So my belief is that the guys you speak of aren't cheated on - as much as they look past character traits in their spouse that guys like me use to filter these women out. So I'm saying you guys are picking women who feel like they have an upper hand somehow, or are entitled, or are emotionally needy, or are externally motivated (seek outside validation). Because you are more "emotionally intelligent" than me, you forgive many of these traits from an emotional acceptance standpoint.

Subsequently, your approach to your W allows those susceptible to infidelity to cultivate those characteristics and behaviors unchecked. Heaven forbid you try to control them!

So, absolutely all types of men get cheated on. But guys like you "the vague you this thread is directed to" respond differently. For me, the hammer would come down quickly and the blow would be nearly fatal (if you respond quickly you have to allow for the small chance you are wrong which is why it might not be an initial blow that is fatal to the marriage).

So you get reactions like @Lonely husband 42301

And our spouses know that they better not ever let on they're cheating because they know the boundaries are firm and unyielding.

So if you're a nice guy with firm boundaries and strength of character, you stand a good chance to not end up with infidelity - but your character only counts for so much. Ultimately if your w is selfish enough, anyone will get cheated on.




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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

All men get cheated on and/or left. Brad Pitt the ultimate alpha male is living alone playing xBox right now. Robert Pattinson from those terrible vampire movies, women loved this guy cheated on by Kristin Stewart, Seal cheated on by his supermodel wife, Meg Ryan cheated on Randy Quaid, professional athletes all deal with it. It doesn't matter, good looking, rich, poor, alpha/beta. All women eventually lose faith and cheat. It's not worth investing emotionally in women anymore.

I did take the OP's tact with my wife, not because I had anything to prove, but because I didn't give a **** anymore. I told my wife, "I'm not controlling you, you're free to do whatever you want, so am I"... "I'm not living in a marriage with a wife who wants to act like a single woman, go to bars to all hours with her divorced friends, they're single, you're not, but if you want to do that expect me to file for divorce, so with that in mind that we're both free to do what we want, our actions impact each other and have consequences". She tested it a little more but it definitely worked because she knew I was fed up and didn't care about losing her, it scared her to death because she had never really seen me not pining for her and lavishing her with love and affection.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> First and foremost - make sure your wife's needs are filled. Truly is step one to preventing cheating and disrespectful behaviour. One cannot be a strong man without a tender side. Date her, bring her a treat, listen to her, do your part around the house without being asked, make the home and you a pleasant place to be.


None of this would stop a woman from cheating at all... Once a woman feels she can either have her cake and eat it too, or that she's deserving of more, it doesn't matter how many dishes the guy washes, or how many trinkets he's brought home, she's done, gone.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> None of this would stop a woman from cheating at all... Once a woman feels she can either have her cake and eat it too, or that she's deserving of more, it doesn't matter how many dishes the guy washes, or how many trinkets he's brought home, she's done, gone.


Agree... but it is important that her needs are met. Where most guys go wrong is that the err too much on the "be super luvvy and do housework" type of needs. We think like dudes. Always gets us in trouble.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

dadstartingover said:


> Agree... but it is important that her needs are met. Where most guys go wrong is that the err too much on the "be super luvvy and do housework" type of needs. *We think like dudes*. Always gets us in trouble.


Nah...more like dudes trying to think like chicks and still be a dude...that's what get them in trouble.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> Nah...more like dudes trying to think like chicks and still be a dude...that's what get them in trouble.


EXACTLY. 



knobcreek said:


> All women eventually lose faith and cheat.


This is simply untrue, and I think you know it's untrue. You ARE pretty bitter.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I've read nothing to make me think that @Lonely husband 42301 was passive...

In fact, after watching military marriages for 15 years I think that is only an unmeasurable portion of why women cheat on their husbands.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Wow. I feel as though I have stumbled into an alternate reality. All this time on TAM and I thought the "party line" was that WS's were unfaithful because they themselves had some deep character flaw or weakness. Except now I'm getting that affairs actually happen because the BS is less attractive to their spouse than they should be - if a man, because he's too passive and wishy washy; and if a woman, because she's too fat. (Or are there lines here that I'm not reading between?)
@sokillme I think I get where you're coming from. But I really don't like the almost inevitable IF THEN that results. No-one can stop their spouse from cheating. That decision rests solely in the hands of the one who does the doing. And there are more why's to that decision than we can possibly imagine.

IMO, a strong sense of self-worth (easily distinguishable from arrogance) is attractive to both sexes. And strongly held boundaries protect us and our sense of self-worth whether we're male or female. Both of these are more like a strong immune system that responds quickly to neutralise a threat or repair damage. Rather than some kind of futuristic force field that mysteriously repels danger before it gets near. After all, even the wisest, bravest and noblest can be fooled. Especially by themselves. And even in love. Whether you get exposed is decided mostly by chance. How quickly and effectively you can get healthy again afterwards - boundaries and self-worth.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Gets my vote @Mizzbak...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Being a beta personality, I reject all of this Alpha Bovine Excrement. There are faithful people, and there are people who are always looking for a bigger better deal. Date the kind you are compatible with.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> I've read nothing to make me think that @Lonely husband 42301 was passive...
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, after watching military marriages for 15 years I think that is only an unmeasurable portion of why women cheat on their husbands.




Hmmmm perhaps not passive but definitely checked out. He checked back in with a vengeance, owned his ****, got on PTSD treatment plan and held his WW accountable.

He didn't force her to cheat at all but was deep in his world; she sounded pretty well pampered but she also put voice to their problems (threatening divorce though AFTER she started the A I believe).

Both made mistakes, both didn't communicate well, but both hit the reset button and signed up for a very tough path to R

It's a very good thread for BS and WS to read because it deals with a bad situation in a direct, and in the end, balanced way.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mizzbak said:


> @sokillme I think I get where you're coming from. But I really don't like the almost inevitable IF THEN that results. No-one can stop their spouse from cheating. That decision rests solely in the hands of the one who does the doing. And there are more why's to that decision than we can possibly imagine.
> 
> IMO, a strong sense of self-worth (easily distinguishable from arrogance) is attractive to both sexes. And strongly held boundaries protect us and our sense of self-worth whether we're male or female. Both of these are more like a strong immune system that responds quickly to neutralise a threat or repair damage. Rather than some kind of futuristic force field that mysteriously repels danger before it gets near. After all, even the wisest, bravest and noblest can be fooled. Especially by themselves. And even in love. Whether you get exposed is decided mostly by chance. How quickly and effectively you can get healthy again afterwards - boundaries and self-worth.


I think it is deeper then that. I think a submissive person is attractive to a person who is an abuser, it's like a host for a parasite. These are the people they marry to raise their children and bankroll their lifestyle. I also think someone who is assertive is like bugspray. They just won't waste there time with these people if they can sense the person is moral, the assertive people who are immoral are the ones they are attracted to as far as having affairs with.

As I stated in the beginning of this thread it is a general statement, that doesn't mean there are acceptations. The point of this thread was not to give people and avenue to bash women. It a pretty silly and crappy statement to say all women cheat. I won't even dignify a response. It was also not to say this WILL happen. It was to say if you are being passive you are setting yourself up to be taken advantage of. You could fall into a well established pattern.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

I suspect we are on the similar sides in this - that having a strong and robust sense of self-worth, and a willingness to enforce the boundaries that keep us that way are important. Whether it is because this scares off would-be emotional abusers from the get-go, or because it enables us to respond appropriately if someone we let close hurts us.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

sokillme's post is true, and the problem behind it in my opinion is this: In an era where gender roles have been obfuscated, men have misguidedly emasculated themselves. I can't tell you how many time I've read stories on here and other marriage forums where the men don't act like men. They lack decisiveness and leadership, and they refuse to assertively attack serious problems. Furthermore, they are under the misguided notion that being sheepish and nice will solve the problem. Being nice is not a problem, but being nice isn't a solution to a problem either. 

I'm not sure why, but men today often lack masculinity. Not that women out there today desire Neanderthals. But I do believe that they do want men who have a backbone and have at least of semblance of rugged individualism. The American cowboy has ridden off into the sunset and been replaced by metrosexual ninnies, culturally speaking. 

By the way, while I believe in masculinity and strength, I also believe in compassion, empathy, and sensitivity. Those are not mutually exclusive qualities. At least they don't have to be. Furthermore, I am a male who is drawn to strength and assertiveness in females, balanced with femininity and a soft touch.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I agree. Not so much with the fact that a wife will likely cheat on a too-passive guy, just that it's harder to find wimpy guys like this attractive. I honestly can't respect a man who would let me call the shots and wear the pants. Sooooo unattractive.
> 
> However, this would just seem too caveman-ish for me:
> 
> *"As long as you are my wife, then you are mine. I covet you, you are too important and valuable to me to let other guys fall all over you. And I know they will because I do all the time. You are free to decide."*


I also think people cheat when they think there will be no real consequences. How many times have we heard a WS say - I thought my BS would be p!ssed but I was to expecting this. I've eard some WWs write that here. What I took that to mean is if he finds out then it he will be mad but we will move on but I wont be losing anything over my little dalliance. The sad part is frequently they are right.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Rick Blaine said:


> sokillme's post is true, and the problem behind it in my opinion is this: In an era where gender roles have been obfuscated, men have misguidedly emasculated themselves. I can't tell you how many time I've read stories on here and other marriage forums where the men don't act like men. They lack decisiveness and leadership, and they refuse to assertively attack serious problems. Furthermore, they are under the misguided notion that being sheepish and nice will solve the problem. Being nice is not a problem, but being nice isn't a solution to a problem either.
> 
> I'm not sure why, but men today often lack masculinity. Not that women out there today desire Neanderthals. But I do believe that they do want men who have a backbone and have at least of semblance of rugged individualism. The American cowboy has ridden off into the sunset and been replaced by metrosexual ninnies, culturally speaking.
> 
> By the way, while I believe in masculinity and strength, I also believe in compassion, empathy, and sensitivity. Those are not mutually exclusive qualities. At least they don't have to be. Furthermore, I am a male who is drawn to strength and assertiveness in females, balanced with femininity and a soft touch.


Personally I blame it on fathers abdicating their roles more then anything else. We have two generations of men raised by women. And before you blame the women, a vast majority of these kids had Fathers. Where were they.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It's tempting to simplify a _highly_ complex situation with sound-bit prescriptions. Sure, there's truth in it, but it's not the whole story, and doesn't actually provide a _solution_. Politics demonstrates that, daily!


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

I am the boss in my house! When my wife lets me.

I wear the pants in my family! When my wife lets me.

What I say goes! When my wife agrees.

I have the cahones so I get the last say! I just have to take 'em out of wife's purse.

To be honest, there has to be a balance and a mutual respect for any marriage to work. I have seen a lot of relationships where the dominant (alpha) personality was the wife, and it worked, albeit I personally wouldn't be able to live like that. I don't find an alpha woman sexy in the least, and I suspect the majority of women feel the same way when a man is beta. The man is supposed to be the leader in the home, in my opinion. I do think boundaries have to be established early in a relationship on both sides, and any time those boundaries are broken there absolutely has to be consequences. The boundaries have to be firmly set in the beginning, and stuck to, not moved.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

sokillme said:


> WOMEN CHEAT ON PASSIVE MEN.


While that may be true in my opinion it has much more to do with each person's personality prior to even meeting one another. 

I remember being in high school and noticing some girls were romantically nonexclusive even if a boyfriend thought they were. Same thing also occurred with some boys being nonexclusive while their girlfriends thought they were. So in many relationship the premise for dishonesty was established since day one. 

You also have people that grow up ignoring their own sexuality in favor of what society suggests is best (bi-sexuality for example), and later in life struggling to come to terms with who they really are sexually. 

Then you also have men with fear of abandonment that actually encourage their wives to cheat and subsequently return to them (hotwife) to create a euphoric experience, but often women refuse to do it. 

My point being is that there are many reasons people cheat, and probably no easy way to define why it happens with one primary generalization. But I am admittedly no expert.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Married but Happy said:


> That's certainly often true. But not the entire story. Women will also cheat on men even if they are confident and assertive if they also: abuse them, neglect them, are lousy lovers, etc. - but it's a lot less likely. If they do/are any of these things _and_ are passive too, it becomes more likely they'll be cheated on - or the women walk away.


Gotta agree with this.. from my own personal perspective... I would have to say my husband is on the passive side...he's very laid back, not one to invite confrontation...though if pushed up against a wall.. he's gonna be honest and say what he needs to say.... 

He is a good man, a hard worker... he is responsible, loving, tender, honest and gives me lots of sex... If I ever cheated on him.. I am the lowest form of Low as a woman...

I am the more assertive between us.. anyone who knows us personally would attest to this fact... Now.. if he neglected me... ignored me.. I didn't feel valued, wanted... any form of abuse... F that... but a little passiveness... I can surely think of worse things to deal with.... 

We work as our personalities compliment each other... he has a calming effect on me...where as I may be more of a **** stirrer... I will confront anything on my mind.. and we talk openly and honestly about it.. I draw him out... I want to know what pleases him too... if I wasn't one to seek this out and he was passive about his needs on top of that... we might not fare so well... 

What I have found is.. our differences are good for each other..

Just another perspective is all.. I feel he is as good of a man as he could be for what his true temperament style IS... and that's all we can expect from someone..


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Women will cheat on anyone.

Greg Hardy. Does he seem passive? Nope, was cheated on by the girlfriend he beat up (she ****ed Nelly). Brad Pitt, Orlando Bloom, Amir Khan? Are they passive?

Stop trying to rationalize it as you're not being forceful enough or you didn't read some stupid book on how to be an alpha male or implement it correctly. Women or men will cheat for a myriad of reasons, some are sociopaths and simply don't give a ****, some are extremely lonely, some simply can't stand their spouse, some use it as means of ending the marriage or to monkey-branch to another person.

And some people will cheat for really no reason at all, marriage is going well, good communication, loves their spouse, they just wanted to **** someone new and didn't think they could get caught so they did it.


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