# Men and Sexual Fantasies



## rileyawes

In the midst of a conversation centering around fidelity and appropriate friends and boundaries, my husband disclosed that until recently he spent most of his time of facebook looking at friends' photos for sexual gratification but not masturbation (we don't have internet at home and he doesn't have a smartphone) when we were at the library or visiting family who had wifi. He friended women partially (at least 50%) so he could look at their photos and evaluate them sexually. 

He has fewer than 100 facebook friends so these are all people he actually knows. He also revealed that he's had sexual fantasies (of different durations) about almost all of our acquaintances, including those over 70 years of age, my own mom, significantly overweight and unattractive women, the teller at the bank, his boss, several women at work, and his friends' kids "once they've grown up" ie sexual fantasies of what they would look like once they got older, like their mom or older sister, but not what they look like now (9-12 years old).

Part of the reason it bothers me is because he's had an EA that I found out about recently (she was fat, ugly, and emotionally unstable for a number of reasons), and I feel like his self-esteem as well as self-control are low. His boundaries are very low and we've had to reinforce them over the last year or so. He's young (27), but not super young. I've never had this problem in previous relationships because it never came up in conversation. I'd be happier not knowing, but I DO know. I feel like he's attracted to anything that seems remotely female and would have sex with it if given the opportunity and I'm supposed to just get over it. I've been feeling pretty sick over this, because I feel insecure and uncomfortable being around him in public. 

He said he has around 30 sexual fantasies per day (studies show median for men is 19, average is 34 in number) ranging from a few seconds "flash" to a few minutes (while masturbating) which are, according to him, mostly me, then people we know, then porn stars, then faceless female bodies. He says in his fantasies they are 99% doggy style from behind sex, some include seduction ending up in doggy style, and it's mostly about domination.

How normal is this? How can we repair what feels like a really uncomfortable breach?


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## 2ndchanceGuy

IMO , NOT normal, he needs to grow up and have some self control . Sounds like he may need professional mental help to get this under control before it gets worse.


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## sokillme

Sounds pretty off to me. You might want to investigate further.


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## *Deidre*

Sounds like he might need some help, as it seems like more than just typical fantasies. We all have fantasies, and most fantasies I'd say are harmless, but if he is looking at kids, and thinking about them even grown up in sexual ways ...that seems odd, and sounds like he might need some counseling.


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## TX-SC

That seems strange to me. I only friend my family and friends and I don't fantasize about any of them.


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## larry.gray

I'm too hung up on the "eewww" factor to give coherent advice. At least other than to say this is not normal.


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## btterflykisses

This is not normal.


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## badsanta

rileyawes said:


> How normal is this? How can we repair what feels like a really uncomfortable breach?


Icky factor aside...

Yes, men have very sexual minds. They become very active when our hormones build and queue us to bond with our partners. While these hormones build EVERYTHING seems sexual. I was making jello the other day and while it was jiggling I found myself thinking, "hmmmm I wonder what that would feel like if I stuck my **** into it!" Does this mean I will actually run to the store when I am home alone one day and buy enough boxes of jello to bake myself up a jiggly bowl of sexytime wigglers. ... perhaps I will try that...

Anyway, what was your question?

Badsanta


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## Unicus

Not surprisingly, I have an entirely different response to all this. And, I'll add that mine's actually correct b/c it's based on an understanding of fact.

You don't have an accurate understanding of men's sexuality.

Men's sexuality is a lot different than women's. Go read Kinsey's ground breaking study on sexuality, or Master's and Johnson's study, or the Hite report....they're remarkably consistent over a period of decades. Men think a lot about sex. And, a lot of the things they fantasize about aren't what you'd call "Typical" or "Expected". 

Thoughts don't get us into trouble, actions do. If your H thinks about this stuff, he's not only statistically normal, but also healthy and OK. That he told you might have been an obvious mistake, don't compound it by actually saying or doing anything about it.


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## jorgegene

reminds me of an anne landers story i read years ago.

a wife wrote to say her husband was super horny and propositioned just about every female he ran into, including her mom (his MIL).

now your husband only fantasizes as far as you know and doesn't act on his fantasies.

i don't know. i certainly can't speak for the male race, but i am male and i don't fantasize about women like that.
i sometimes look, i sometimes gaze, i appreciate, and that's usually as far as it goes.


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## EllisRedding

I had to actually add friends to Facebook to stop me from having sexual fantasies over my own photos ... :scratchhead:


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## Cletus

If most women knew what went on in the heads of most of the men they love, they would run screaming for the exits.

Your husband sounds like he's a couple of sigma to the right of the mean in the number of women over whom he fantasizes, but that he does it at all is not in the least bit unusual. We're all somewhere on the "spectrum", and we all like to think our position in the histogram is average, or special, or normal.


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## GTdad

I'm not going to necessarily knock him for his fantasies, other than the deal with the young kids of friends that I'm still trying to wrap my head around. I'd be more concerned about the feeling I get from your other threads that to him, you're more of an option than a wife.


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## rileyawes

Unicus said:


> Not surprisingly, I have an entirely different response to all this. And, I'll add that mine's actually correct b/c it's based on an understanding of fact.
> 
> You don't have an accurate understanding of men's sexuality.
> 
> Men's sexuality is a lot different than women's. Go read Kinsey's ground breaking study on sexuality, or Master's and Johnson's study, or the Hite report....they're remarkably consistent over a period of decades. Men think a lot about sex. And, a lot of the things they fantasize about aren't what you'd call "Typical" or "Expected".
> 
> Thoughts don't get us into trouble, actions do. If your H thinks about this stuff, he's not only statistically normal, but also healthy and OK. That he told you might have been an obvious mistake, don't compound it by actually saying or doing anything about it.


I asked the question BECAUSE I'm a woman and want insight into male sexuality, including many opinions. Yours is not "correct" just because it is based on your understanding of "fact" and the subject matter. Actually, several people have had many differing opinions, and I subscribe more to Festivus's opinion that sexuality exists on a spectrum, some of which can be categorized as normal or typical, and some of which falls outside of that range. As you would have realized had you read my question carefully, I did cite a study that I read (a modern one) that would describe my husband's reported daily _frequency_ of sexual fantasies as normal, and actually slightly below the average of those that they interviewed. I was actually also asking whether the content / people involved in the fantasies were considered okay. I'm not interested in research from the 1950s. Most of us realize that a lot has changed since then regarding sexual mores and social roles, etc. For instance, Americans didn't have as many opposite sex friends, women didn't work, and Facebook didn't exist [citation needed]. Additionally, my husband told me these things, so I do have the right to react to them. Go back to the 50s for your wife that's not going to say or do anything in response to your words. So, since your comment is essentially garbage, I'm moving on to respond to others.

jorgegene, that's definitely true, but if I had my druthers I wouldn't know at all! I think most people wouldn't want to know about their partner's sexual fantasies that involve people that they know. I've read that most men fantasize about people that they know, and while I don't like it, I didn't need the confirmation. My husband's already had an EA (with one of his friends) so I don't like this feeling that there are many potential more EAs or PAs out there. His need for "ego kibbles" is pretty high (I think his self-esteem is pretty low) that while I think he prefers to be with me on the whole, anybody who told him how great he is is kind of a risk in my mind. There's more of a chance of one of his Facebook friends or a teller at the bank that he flirts with doing this, rather than like Sophia Vergara, so it makes me capital-u Uncomfortable, especially when we SEE these people.

Festivus, yes, I think you're right. I don't WANT to know. I didn't ask at first, but he let something drop in conversation, and I wanted to follow up on it. I would have felt more uneasy, in a way, if I hadn't probed because I have anxiety and my imagination would have made it a lot worse, but you can't "put the genie back into the bottle." I wish I could forget right-freakin-now, but it's going to take time.

notmyrealname4, I don't fantasize about other men much, but I've never told my husband because I know it would hurt his feelings! I even asked him how he would feel if the shoe were on the other foot, and he said he'd feel insecure and "less than" like these men have something he doesn't, and he wasn't satisfying me. Between the two of us, he is definitely the more jealous and insecure. I have a bit, but I think it's kind of indecent and violating to use a friend's image in a sexual way. I wouldn't like thinking my friends were doing the same to me. I'd fantasize about Matt Damon all day and night without a guilty feeling, but ultimately, I don't, because to me it draws focus away from the person I should be thinking about sexually and to me, diminishes something special between us by comparing him to someone else, and preferring the other person, even if for only a few minutes. That's my personal feeling, probably because my husband is very attractive, but I might feel differently once we get older and he gets a pot belly and loses his hair or whatever. If I see a good-looking man, I'll appreciate him, but my next thought is, "but he doesn't have eyes as nice as Husband's" or "he's not as fit as Husband," and let it go pretty quickly. I don't see the point in wasting my energy, and I feel like my husband is wasting his energy. But some people like window-shopping. Also, yes, he has a job, but he doesn't use computers at his job. This is when we're at the public library 2-3 times / week, or visiting family.

GorillaT, that's the main thing that bothers me. It feels to me less like fantasizing and more like keeping his options open. Many of these women are not attractive in themselves, but _represent_ something attractive. However, I'm only a human being, and I can't compete with a fantasy. 

For instance, he lost his parents young and is not close to his family. As far as I understand (because I didn't want to hear much), he was thinking about these kids because they come from a large, intact nuclear family. He said he has thought about what it would be like when they're older (18+) and to have them look up to him (I'm older than he is and am not impressed unless he does something impressive) and raise a family like theirs with them. He said sometimes the fantasies turned sexual, but since the older versions of them are not real, their images turn into their mother or their older sister (who is 20). He said that the fact that he's thought those things make him feel uncomfortable around them. He's very much attracted to adult females and I don't think it's a pedophilia thing, but he's always YEARNING. He likes height in most cases, and large breasts, plump rear ends, and is not into shaved pubic hair, though I'm not sure if those are any indications of anything.

I'll suggest that he seek IC, but I think he was leaning toward it anyway. I'll mention my concerns regarding some of this sexual stuff and see if he wants to bring it up with the counselor he finds.


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## Cletus

rileyawes said:


> Festivus, yes, I think you're right. I don't WANT to know. I didn't ask at first, but he let something drop in conversation, and I wanted to follow up on it. I would have felt more uneasy, in a way, if I hadn't probed because I have anxiety and my imagination would have made it a lot worse, but you can't "put the genie back into the bottle." I wish I could forget right-freakin-now, but it's going to take time.


Part of my response was to ease you into the knowledge that what you know about your husband is something you now know about way more men than you probably realize. That he's not so far from the norm to be "scary". 

The most fascinating part of this conversation to me wasn't what he said, but that he said it to YOU. I just got back from vacation in Maui. If my wife knew what played in my brain on some of those beaches...


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## SimplyAmorous

badsanta said:


> Icky factor aside...
> 
> Yes, men have very sexual minds. They become very active when our hormones build and queue us to bond with our partners. While these hormones build EVERYTHING seems sexual.* I was making jello the other day and while it was jiggling I found myself thinking, "hmmmm I wonder what that would feel like if I stuck my **** into it!"* Does this mean I will actually run to the store when I am home alone one day and buy enough boxes of jello to bake myself up a jiggly bowl of sexytime wigglers. ... perhaps I will try that...
> 
> Anyway, what was your question?
> 
> Badsanta


 Reminds me of a scene in this movie...


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## SimplyAmorous

rileyawes said:


> I asked the question BECAUSE I'm a woman and want insight into male sexuality, including many opinions. Yours is not "correct" just because it is based on your understanding of "fact" and the subject matter. Actually, several people have had many differing opinions, and I subscribe more to Festivus's opinion that sexuality exists on a spectrum, some of which can be categorized as normal or typical, and some of which falls outside of that range.


IF you want a book on this particular subject.. this is an insightful one, I picked up a copy years ago....

Men in Love  by Nancy Friday...



> An extraordinary, explicitly masculine journey, Men In Love develops a startlingly honest portrayal of what it means to be a man in contemporary America.
> 
> Here are the unexpurgated dreams, fantasies and fetishes that excite and obsess men today. In creating this historic study, Nancy Friday listened -- without disapproval, apology or censorship -- to the candid responses of thousands of men aged fourteen through sixty. She gave them a legitimate arena where they could share their "secret gardens" -- the hidden and forbidden but nonetheless real and true.
> 
> Much more than a litany of erotica, this unique volume doesn't tell us how men should love. It tells us how men do love -- a stunning insight into the desires that dwell within men's psyches... and their hearts.


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## arbitrator

SimplyAmorous said:


> Reminds me of a scene in this movie...


*Yeah, but I've never had a "jiggly " apple pie!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rileyawes

Festivus said:


> I just got back from vacation in Maui. If my wife knew what played in my brain on some of those beaches...


yes, if she knew, then what? I'm really curious about that. I'm trying not to overreact because I understand that "everybody does it" and it's supposedly normal. Y'all have acknowledged that it would be unpleasant for a woman to know what her husband is thinking...I do. So now what?



SimplyAmorous said:


> IF you want a book on this particular subject.. this is an insightful one, I picked up a copy years ago....


Hm. I'm not sure if I do. I feel like I'm already in TMI overload. It sounds interesting, though, and very revealing. What did you think about it?

Unicus, I'm not rejecting anyone's insight but yours. No one else said "everyone's opinion is stupid but mine," except you. Everyone can see you're a self-important blowhard, and no one is impressed with you. Your opinion doesn't matter. Your name-calling doesn't make you seem intelligent and enlightened. It does not prove that you're better than anyone else. In fact, it shows the contrary.


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## Unicus

rileyawes said:


> yes, if she knew, then what? I'm really curious about that. I'm trying not to overreact because I understand that "everybody does it" and it's supposedly normal. Y'all have acknowledged that it would be unpleasant for a woman to know what her husband is thinking...I do. So now what?
> 
> 
> 
> Hm. I'm not sure if I do. I feel like I'm already in TMI overload. It sounds interesting, though, and very revealing. What did you think about it?
> 
> Unicus, I'm not rejecting anyone's insight but yours. No one else said "everyone's opinion is stupid but mine," except you. Everyone can see you're a self-important blowhard, and no one is impressed with you. Your opinion doesn't matter. Your name-calling doesn't make you seem intelligent and enlightened. It does not prove that you're better than anyone else. In fact, it shows the contrary.


Hun, in "Y'all's" (sic) position, you shouldn't be rejecting anyone's opinion but your own. You are an ignoramus headed towards a major conflict with the most important person in your life. I could frankly care less, mind you...but as a public service to others out there with the same issue, I took the time and will continue to take the time to respond...as it might actually help someone a tad more open minded than yourself get past themselves. And yes, i do think my advice is often better, as it's based not so much on my own quaint experience or emotion. Go read.

To answer the question a lot of reasonable people would want the answer to...."What do I do now that I know"...the answer is you do nothing. You've learned something, and the best thing to do is incorporate it into your understanding of normal. If that's beyond you or you simply cannot deal with the emotion, YOU get the individual therapy, you don't tell him to do so, especially after sharing personal...and highly normal..things with you. The problem is yours. And I'm not just referring to your outdated, misinformed sexual attitudes, either.

Or in your case, you dismiss those who know more than you and make an issue out of it and risk your marriage.


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## SunnyT

Interesting topic. 

Question: Does the level of a man's sexual fulfillment relate to the number or variety of fantasies? 

As in, if a man is sexually satisfied (or satisfied with his sex life) is he still fantasizing about so many other females? Would he have less fantasies about other women if he had as much sex as he'd like? Would he be more likely to fantasize about his wife is she were really satisfying him?


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## Cletus

rileyawes said:


> yes, if she knew, then what? I'm really curious about that.


Then she might think like this: (We have **** shaming. Is there a term for when you do it to men?)



notmyrealname4 said:


> So, he voluntarily shared freely about his sexual fantasies. And I get the feeling, he kinda expected you to be okay with it.
> 
> Because," that's how men are".
> 
> But put the shoe on the other foot, and he's not happy about it at all. "he'd feel insecure and "less than", he said it himself.
> 
> But you're supposed to be okay with being insecure and "less than" And you are "less than" to him. Why do I know that? Because *he used that phrase*; not you. He projected what he feels onto you.
> 
> Sure he likes sex with you. Is probably attracted to you. But you cannot compete with the sexual Disneyland he has going on in his mind. And not just in his mind; there's that pesky EA he had, that you're supposed to "just get over"
> 
> And it bothers him to think of you having a mental sexual Disneyland of your own; because he knows what that means. He knows that your deepest lusts and desires are focused on the people in the fantasies in your mind.
> 
> 
> I'd have pictures of Matt Damon everywhere. Matt Damon desktop wallpapers, slide shows. Repeated viewing of Matt Damon movies. And anyone else that floats your boat.
> 
> Or, to more directly parallel your husband; share your explicit fantasies about other men with him. Just like he shared with you. It's only fair. Scour Facebook for images of people you are attracted to,* including any of your husband's male relatives that you think are good looking*. Not to masturbate to (of course not, we know he isn't masturbating to any of the images he thinks about ). No, it's just for "sexual gratification". Please tell me the distinction between sexual gratification and masturbating/orgasming. He must think you were born yesterday.
> 
> 
> So there you guys are, at the public library, side by side at terminals; fishing around for images of other people on FaceBook for your respective mental spank banks.
> 
> How romantic.


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## rileyawes

notmyrealname4 said:


> But you're supposed to be okay with being insecure and "less than" And you are "less than" to him. Why do I know that? Because *he used that phrase*; not you. He projected what he feels onto you.
> 
> Sure he likes sex with you. Is probably attracted to you. But you cannot compete with the sexual Disneyland he has going on in his mind. And not just in his mind; there's that pesky EA he had, that you're supposed to "just get over"
> 
> And it bothers him to think of you having a mental sexual Disneyland of your own; because he knows what that means. He knows that your deepest lusts and desires are focused on the people in the fantasies in your mind.


Yes, that's the majority of the problem. I don't want to do the tit for tat thing, because as you mentioned, it's not romantic and it's ultimately unproductive. I feel like it's a waste of my time fantasizing about other men and the effort I'd put into printing even one image of Matt Damon is effort I should be putting into my marriage. I did retaliate once. He told me he was attracted to a coworker, and I told him I was also attracted to one of HIS coworkers. He acted all hurt and whipped puppy, and his reasoning was this: he told me about his attraction out of honesty, which is a pure motive, and I told him about mine on purpose to hurt his feelings, which is a bad motive and "mean." I try to tell him that intentions don't matter, actions do, but he doesn't get it. He doesn't understand tact and he doesn't seem to understand reciprocity. He does plenty of hurtful things (see: EA) and instead of telling him how I feel, I ask how HE would feel. He always says things like hurt, lack of trust, upset, etc etc. He's got some problems with immaturity and low self-esteem which probably drive all of this.

Festivus, I didn't see the comment as ****-shaming. It was definitely tough, but on my husband's behavior and words. There was nothing about him being a bad person because he likes sex or because he fantasizes about other women, but that he shows insensitivity in seeking out sexual images and then telling me, and then getting offended and upset when I do the same, and saying he wouldn't like it if I did the same. Why do you think your wife would "shame" you? I think she'd be hurt, do you? If so, why do you think she would be hurt? Isn't that hurt justification enough to just keep your mouth shut about it? What negative consequences could occur from you telling your wife you spent time fantasizing about having sex with a lot of other women? How would you deal with her negative emotions?

SunnyT, interesting questions, but I'll be damned if I'm having sex with a man that doesn't show his wife the smallest amount of respect. If he wants to get it elsewhere, he can, but since he wants to stay married, he will show respect and help repair the breach he caused by his behavior first (especially the EA, of course. D-day wasn't even two weeks ago) before expecting sex. Honestly, though, he's done this no matter what, and I think most men are probably the same. No amount is good enough for my husband, and trust me, it's not a turn on. I think that's just how he is. I've gotten responses saying it's normal, it's not normal, it's creepy, it's hyper-normal and the ultimate in normal behavior. With responses all over the map, I'm inclined to believe most of it's fairly common, and parts are abnormal. I think Festivus mentioned before that one of the most interesting parts is that he actually told me. It's not something anyone wants to know about their spouse, normal or not, and now I'm dealing with it.

Having a bowel movement is normal and healthy, but you don't do it right in front of your spouse's face in the living room. It changes how people think of you.


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## tech-novelist

SunnyT said:


> Interesting topic.
> 
> Question: Does the level of a man's sexual fulfillment relate to the number or variety of fantasies?
> 
> As in, if a man is sexually satisfied (or satisfied with his sex life) is he still fantasizing about so many other females? Would he have less fantasies about other women if he had as much sex as he'd like? Would he be more likely to fantasize about his wife is she were really satisfying him?


There may very well be a relationship between frequency of sexual fantasy and fulfillment at home. But expecting men to stop fantasizing because they are fulfilled at home runs counter to evolution, so I don't think it is reasonable.

Note that I'm *not *saying they should act on those fantasies as they relate to other females, as that is a very bad idea.


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## Cletus

rileyawes said:


> It's not something anyone wants to know about their spouse, normal or not, and now I'm dealing with it.


A funny thing happened. 

My wife thought I was something of an outlier, even though I had never had a real discussion with her about anything that went on between my ears regarding my private sexual life. Surely, most men didn't think about sex as much as I did. 

Then I had a son, who is now 25.

She has since said that watching a boy grow from a wide eyed innocent toddler to a full grown man really opened up her eyes as to the sexual nature of men. My son is a perfectly respectable man - somewhat on the sensitive side, in fact, so he's not some egregious example of masculinity run amok. 

The gap between the average woman and the average man on this issue is so great that I suspect most women don't have a deep understanding of what it's like to be testosterone poisoned from the age of 12 on. To see nearly every woman you encounter in vaguely sexual terms, whether you want to or not. To have to actively suppress your mind from wandering to a place that you'd rather it not go several times a day.

You now have more information than you had before. You can't unlearn it, but it sure seems like you're overreacting to it.


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## Cletus

notmyrealname4 said:


> Let's call it sl*t shaming when we do it to men. Why can't a man be a sl*t?


A man can be a ****. A man CANNOT be a **** based solely on the fantasies that run around in his little cave-man brain.


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## Cletus

rileyawes said:


> Festivus, I didn't see the comment as ****-shaming. It was definitely tough, but on my husband's behavior and words. There was nothing about him being a bad person because he likes sex or because he fantasizes about other women, but that he shows insensitivity in seeking out sexual images and then telling me, and then getting offended and upset when I do the same, and saying he wouldn't like it if I did the same. Why do you think your wife would "shame" you? I think she'd be hurt, do you? If so, why do you think she would be hurt? Isn't that hurt justification enough to just keep your mouth shut about it? What negative consequences could occur from you telling your wife you spent time fantasizing about having sex with a lot of other women? How would you deal with her negative emotions?


No lo contendre. That's why I never publicized any of that to my own wife.


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## MattMatt

Do I have sexual fantasies about women that we know?

Some of them, yes. Well, not so much fantasies. More thinking: "Oh! She's pretty!" or "Wow! She's hot!"

I think my wife does the same about men that we know.


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## Cletus

MattMatt said:


> Do I have sexual fantasies about women that we know?
> 
> Some of them, yes. Well, not so much fantasies. More thinking: "Oh! She's pretty!" or "Wow! She's hot!"
> 
> I think my wife does the same about men that we know.


I've asked my wife this question. She says that she certainly notices attractive men, but it's never sexual.

I don't know if she's lying to protect my feelings, but after 30 years together, I believe her. Sex is for her a result of a relationship, not a precursor.


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## Cletus

notmyrealname4 said:


> Huh?


A murderer does not become a felon until he acts on his whims.

To be a ****, one must DO, not just fantasize. If you think otherwise, you just sentenced most of the male population and no small portion of the female population to the label of ****.


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## MattMatt

Festivus said:


> I've asked my wife this question. She says that she certainly notices attractive men, but it's never sexual.
> 
> I don't know if she's lying to protect my feelings, but after 30 years together, I believe her. Sex is for her a result of a relationship, not a precursor.


My wife and her best friend do look at male eye candy. As do the women I used to work with in my former job.


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## rileyawes

Matt, you sound like me. I notice but try not to take it too far because it's unnecessary. It seems disrespectful to me, and I certainly wouldn't tell my husband if I did!

Festivus, you're the one that said your wife would sl*t shame you if she knew what you were thinking on vacation. I asked why you think she would. I don't think I endorsed that reaction to learning about sexual fantasies. If I did, I didn't mean to. Also, you can think I'm over-reacting. You're not alone in thinking that. I'm not alone in thinking I'm not. "Just get over it" isn't working for me, especially not from people who haven't experienced the same thing, especially because of the EA. I deserve to feel my feelings and react to my environment, and that's my stance on that.
That said, I think your insights and opinions are valuable and I appreciate them. It seems like you have (probably because I see you as an old guy because of the Frank Costanza pic), and I respect where you're coming from with your perspective. How long have you been married?


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## rich84

Some of his examples are creepy (kids?) and inappropriate, especially when verbalized to an insecure wife post-EA. They don't inspire confidence or trust. But most of the fantasies themselves are not outside the realm of what most men experience as part of our testosterone addled brains. If there's at least marginal sexual attraction, there's the possibility of some fleeting fantasy forming before it can even be shoved to the side. 

How's your sex life? You wrote some things that made me question your attraction to him right now. If he feels deprived, he's likely seeking sexual validation elsewhere. Fantasies don't reject you. All his fantasies are about domination (and women that submit). 

As long as they're fantasies and not acted on or obsessed over to the point of detracting from the relationship, then they don't necessarily pose a lot of harm. 

A history of an EA, a curated FB friendliest of women he's attracted to, mindlessly chattering to his wife about all manner of sexual imagery that pops in his head, and poor boundaries - now those things are damaging. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cletus

rileyawes said:


> Festivus, you're the one that said your wife would sl*t shame you if she knew what you were thinking on vacation. I asked why you think she would. I don't think I endorsed that reaction to learning about sexual fantasies.


Because she doesn't have a reference point. Because even I ****-shame myself once in a while. If a smokin' hot 16 year old in a thong walks by on the beach, I might have to bury my head in my book to not imagine behavior that society has very clearly labeled as deviant, for good reason. 

And because I know my wife, who has a long history of being somewhat sexually repressed. 

I have a different perspective. I'm glad to find that my wife notices other men. I would be just as glad - no elated, in fact - to hear that she has sexual fantasies about them. The person who never fantasizes about the odd stranger on the street is a person who, IMHO, has so little sex drive that I would fear for the health of our sexual relationship - and I don't mean that comment hypothetically. 



> How long have you been married?


30 years, with arguments and issues over mismatched sexual drives and attitudes absolutely dwarfing every other source of marital discord between us.


----------



## Max.HeadRoom

I will also reference the book:Men in love by Nancy Friday
https://www.amazon.com/Men-Love-Nancy-Friday/dp/0385333420

My late wife read this in her book club of female friends. All found the content about men shocking. I have not read this nor do I know enough to say that the OP husband in not normal.

I will admit that I can’t stop my mind from “Going places” when I see something I like. Thinking and acting are two very different things.


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## Cletus

Max.HeadRoom said:


> I will admit that I can’t stop my mind from “Going places” when I see something I like. Thinking and acting are two very different things.


A friend of mine and I have a shortcut for this.

When we're out together, if a strikingly attractive yet clearly underage girl walks by, he leans over and says "You're a pig". That is, if I don't say it to him first.


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## TheTruthHurts

Sorry to jump to the end without reading all of this... but I'd like to say that I am visually aroused. I enjoy a variety of sexual imagery that I don't actually want to do. It's eyes to the sexual part of the brain to the machinery. Completely bypasses the thinking or emotional part of my brain. Sometimes highly graphic imagery works well, other times the sex acts are of NO interest but if the actors (women) do a reasonably good job of pretending to be enjoying it, then it works. Kind of like building a meal out if a la carte items.

I've shared some with W and told her what I like. But not the bad stuff.

Your H seems to be conflating sexual feelings and emotions with general well being feelings and emotions. Probably because he is not emotionally intelligent (like most men). Both "feel good". Same reason some peopke eat - to feel better.

IC might help him and a sex therapist in particular can help disentangle this,


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## rileyawes

thefam said:


> Im pretty sure that type of name calling is against forum rules. Ive reported this and your earlier post just in case.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. I did so as well. People like you make the community better by upholding its standards.


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## rileyawes

TheTruthHurts said:


> I've shared some with W and told her what I like. But not the bad stuff.
> 
> Your H seems to be conflating sexual feelings and emotions with general well being feelings and emotions. Probably because he is not emotionally intelligent (like most men). Both "feel good". Same reason some peopke eat - to feel better.
> 
> IC might help him and a sex therapist in particular can help disentangle this


HA! Your name is perfect for my situation. I really don't want to know, but now I do and I'm like ??? Seriously, though, I think it's fine to share sexual fantasies about acts, but not about people that we know. I know he has a couple of celebrity crushes and idgaf about that. There's a difference between "I've always wanted to try / I really prefer this sexual act" and "I love barbecuing at Stacy's house. Sometimes I fantasizing about bending her over that picnic table in the yard and going for it!" 

Interesting insight about the emotional response. One of this older friends suggested he seek counseling about the sex issues as well (and yeah, there's more to the story).


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## tech-novelist

notmyrealname4 said:


> Let's call it sl*t shaming when we do it to men. Why can't a man be a sl*t?


Because having a lot of sex partners is easy for the average woman and impossible for the average man.

Thus, having a lot of sex partners is an achievement for a man, but not for a woman.


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## samyeagar

And I'm yet another different kind of example. Contrary to what was suggested earlier, I really don't fantasize about other women, don't have any celebrity crushes, honestly can't remember ever looking at some random woman and wondering what she looked like naked, what it would be like to have sex with her, yet...I have a very high drive, frequent thoughts and fantasies about my wife, and our sex life it very frequent and outstanding. She never really believed me when she would ask me about things like that, and I told her I never really thought like that. Thought I was lying to protect her feelings, until one night when we went to the strip club together. After a while of rather up close action, my wife decided to grab my crotch under the table and was shocked to discover I wasn't even remotely hard, then I think the truth of what I had always contended...she was the one who aroused me, finally sank in, because my response to her touch was rather noticeable, rather quickly.

Now her on the other hand...yeah, she's the one who has the celebrity crushes, oogles the half naked facebook cowboys, gushes with other people, has no problems talking about them, yet finds it difficult to do the same about me...so yeah, I think in some ways, I can relate to how you are feeling.


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## Middle of Everything

samyeagar said:


> And I'm yet another different kind of example. Contrary to what was suggested earlier, I really don't fantasize about other women, don't have any celebrity crushes, honestly can't remember ever looking at some random woman and wondering what she looked like naked, what it would be like to have sex with her, yet...I have a very high drive, frequent thoughts and fantasies about my wife, and our sex life it very frequent and outstanding. She never really believed me when she would ask me about things like that, and I told her I never really thought like that. Thought I was lying to protect her feelings, until one night when we went to the strip club together. After a while of rather up close action, my wife decided to grab my crotch under the table and was shocked to discover I wasn't even remotely hard, then I think the truth of what I had always contended...she was the one who aroused me, finally sank in, because my response to her touch was rather noticeable, rather quickly.
> 
> Now her on the other hand...yeah, she's the one who has the celebrity crushes, oogles the half naked facebook cowboys, gushes with other people, has no problems talking about them, yet finds it difficult to do the same about me...so yeah, I think in some ways, I can relate to how you are feeling.


Interesting.

So if you werent with your wife or in a serious relationship, what then? Does your drive just "go away"?


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## sokillme

Unicus said:


> Not surprisingly, I have an entirely different response to all this. And, I'll add that mine's actually correct b/c it's based on an understanding of fact.


Your correct huh. Well this is more then fantasizing this actively searching out. That pushes this to a different place then you are describing. Also I never thought of children this way. That is just off.


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## Maricha75

thefam said:


> Im pretty sure that type of name calling is against forum rules. Ive reported this and your earlier post just in case.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are most definitely against forum rules. One member was banned within the last couple days for name calling. 



Unicus said:


> It would have been better to not demonstrate your own inability to comprehend my point, and use the time to try to help the OP.


Perhaps you ought to take your own advice, rather than calling the OP an idiot and an ignoramus. You likely could have made at least a little headway had you stuck to advising her, rather than name calling which, as thefam pointed out, is against forum rules.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## samyeagar

Middle of Everything said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So if you werent with your wife or in a serious relationship, what then? Does your drive just "go away"?


Pretty much, yeah. The height of responsive desire, but to complicate things even more, when I am in a relationship, I have a very strong spontaneous desire too.

To the best of my recollection, I have been that way my entire life. There have been a total of three women that have really ignited that physical spark in me, and each of the three ended up being long term sexual relationships.


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## Anon Pink

tech-novelist said:


> Because having a lot of sex partners is easy for the average woman and impossible for the average man.
> 
> Thus, having a lot of sex partners is an achievement for a man, but not for a woman.


I have to say that even though your explanation above misses the greatest and most pervasively damaging reason why women are slvt shamed while there is no equivalent for men, the achievement it is considered that an average male can acquire so many notches on his bed post actually makes sense.

I hate it when we almost agree! >

Women are slvt shamed because they are not allowed ownership of their bodies or their sexual responses. While that may be a kink for some women, most women find the lack of ownership to be restrictive, unfair and very prohibitive of developing normalized sexual feelings.

Women are slvt shamed because the double standard, which was once totally accepted and is now slowly dying out, is not yet fully dead; particularly among men who feel regret at their lack of sexual experience-or conquest achievements.

Women are slvt shamed because they can get pregnant, thus revealing their promiscuous nature. A young woman who is not yet a mother can be assumed to be virtuous while a young woman who is a mother is assumed to be a slvt. Whereas in my book the young unwed mother is just ...dumb. Come one sweetheart you can get birth control anywhere!

Wrt to learning your husband's sexual fantasies: never ask the question unless you can handle the answer.

I have never asked, nor sought to learn, if my husband has sexual fantasies that don't involve me. I assume he does, he is not blind. I assume most men have sexual fantasies that invoke the images of a few different faces, or bodies, or costumes, or situations.

I think couples should share sexual fantasies as a means of encorporating some of that into their sex play. Whether it is something you whisper into her ear, something you might role play together, or just some situation that turns you on even if you don't actually want to experience it in real life. But I would never want to know if he pictures some super model or Marilyn Monroe, or hell even Brad Pitt!


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## Anon Pink

rileyawes said:


> In the midst of a conversation centering around fidelity and appropriate friends and boundaries, my husband disclosed that until recently he spent most of his time of facebook looking at friends' photos for sexual gratification but not masturbation (we don't have internet at home and he doesn't have a smartphone) when we were at the library or visiting family who had wifi. He friended women partially (at least 50%) so he could look at their photos and evaluate them sexually.
> 
> He has fewer than 100 facebook friends so these are all people he actually knows. He also revealed that he's had sexual fantasies (of different durations) about almost all of our acquaintances, including those over 70 years of age, my own mom, significantly overweight and unattractive women, the teller at the bank, his boss, several women at work, and his friends' kids "once they've grown up" ie sexual fantasies of what they would look like once they got older, like their mom or older sister, but not what they look like now (9-12 years old).
> 
> Part of the reason it bothers me is because he's had an EA that I found out about recently (she was fat, ugly, and emotionally unstable for a number of reasons), and I feel like his self-esteem as well as self-control are low. His boundaries are very low and we've had to reinforce them over the last year or so. He's young (27), but not super young. I've never had this problem in previous relationships because it never came up in conversation. I'd be happier not knowing, but I DO know. I feel like he's attracted to anything that seems remotely female and would have sex with it if given the opportunity and I'm supposed to just get over it. I've been feeling pretty sick over this, because I feel insecure and uncomfortable being around him in public.
> 
> He said he has around 30 sexual fantasies per day (studies show median for men is 19, average is 34 in number) ranging from a few seconds "flash" to a few minutes (while masturbating) which are, according to him, mostly me, then people we know, then porn stars, then faceless female bodies. He says in his fantasies they are 99% doggy style from behind sex, some include seduction ending up in doggy style, and it's mostly about domination.
> 
> How normal is this? How can we repair what feels like a really uncomfortable breach?


Your husband is sexually indiscriminate and that is concerning. You know of one past EA. These two combined cause me to see a red flag.


There is a difference between being attracted to someone, and have a flash mental image of that person naked having sex. A huge difference so keep that in mind.

I found this concerning too:


> For instance, he lost his parents young and is not close to his family. As far as I understand (because I didn't want to hear much), he was thinking about these kids because they come from a large, intact nuclear family. He said he has thought about what it would be like when they're older (18+) and to have them look up to him (I'm older than he is and am not impressed unless he does something impressive) and raise a family like theirs with them. He said sometimes the fantasies turned sexual, but since the older versions of them are not real, their images turn into their mother or their older sister (who is 20). He said that the fact that he's thought those things make him feel uncomfortable around them. He's very much attracted to adult females and I don't think it's a pedophilia thing, but he's always YEARNING. He likes height in most cases, and large breasts, plump rear ends, and is not into shaved pubic hair, though I'm not sure if those are any indications of anything.


His fantasies involve his domination but in real life it doesn't seem as if he has much power or control over his life. Losing his parents and not feeling connected to a family plays into a lack of power and control over his life. So his sexual fantasies involve him being in control. This in and of itself is perfectly fine. But looking at children and admitting to sexual fantasies that involve them (nice recovery on him for claiming he is envisioning them as grown women) amounts to a HUGE GIANT GLARING red fvcking flag!!!!

His inhibition control is minimal. He had 1 ea that you know of. He admitted to you things no man should admit to unless he is absolutely certain his relationship can handle it (this is like instinctual male behavior for crying out loud! There is no manual that teaches men not to tell their wives how hot the next door neighbor is and how he likes to watch her!) 

Okay so indiscriminate sexual fantasy. check
Lack of appropriate boundaries. Check
Lack of inhibition. Check
Lack of control. Check
Lack of close familial ties. Check
Fantasizes about prepubescent girls. Check

Make an appointment with a therapist who specializes in sexual dysfunction and discuss all of this with the therapist then ask for guidance. 

Make sure your husband has ZERO opportunity to be alone with ANY minor child, even his own!

Do not discuss with him you plans to make this appointment. You are doing this for two reasons. 
1. To enlist expert guidance on assessing his potential to molest children.
2. To enlist expert guidance on next steps whether expert thinks there is high probability or not. 

Your husband has too many characteristics of an indiscriminate pedophile and it is your DUTY to seek expert guidance. 

Remember Jerry Sandusky? The Penn State football coach who molested hundreds of boys before someone finally came forward? Turn out those closest to him saw warning signs all along and kept silent.

Don't keep silent.


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## just got it 55

MattMatt said:


> My wife and her best friend do look at male eye candy. As do the women I used to work with in my former job.


Matt don't you get tired of feeling like so much meat on a hook:grin2:

55


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## MattMatt

just got it 55 said:


> Matt don't you get tired of feeling like so much meat on a hook:grin2:
> 
> 55


On Wednesday my wife had one of her rare 'sexualised' moments. 

After the sixth "event" I began to wonder if I would live.

I did.


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## rileyawes

Women are sl*t shamed because men are jealous when women have sex with people other than them. They place so much importance on sex that they difficulty in achieving it gives them sour grapes. They admire promiscuous men so they can live vicariously through them and take a part in putting women "in their place" as inferior life forms, instead of people who are also taking part in the envied behavior (frequent sex with different partners). But that's just my opinion.

Yeah, anon pink, like I said a lot of stuff about the situation is troubling and uncomfortable. I'll say again that I didn't seek the information- it was something he let drop that I asked about to get clarification. As much as I hate knowing what I know, honestly my imagination is much worse! I think I had an unrealistic hope that I wouldn't find out things as bad as what I did. Part of it is that it does bother me more with him. For instance, my ex-boyfriend was a sweet and attractive guy, but pretty timid and sensitive. He would know better than seeing and talking with his ex-girlfriend behind my back and getting into an EA. He would know better than to flirt with his co-workers, bank tellers, and whoever else I don't know about. He could fantasize about every woman in town, but 1) he'd know better than to actually hint or say anything about it, and 2) I'd be more secure in the fact that he wouldn't actually DO anything because he wasn't sexually indiscriminate, hadn't had an EA, was too shy to flirt (besides knowing better), and was very devoted to me while we were together. I have those doubts based on my husband's actual past conduct, which is where most of the discomfort and insecurity comes in. And there's even more, which I don't think is quite relevant because I think we've moved on from it, but it comes up in my thoughts when something like this happens. I'm still weighing my options in this case.

And I don't think I should have to say this, but I will, just in case it takes off: my husband isn't a child molester, and doesn't spend much time with children at all. I haven't seen him around the children in question, so I can't say what he's like, but I've seen him with other kids, and he's kind of like me: a detached well-wisher. I might like to have kids one day, but they aren't all that interesting. We'll chat with them, but other people's kids get old pretty fast.


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## Anon Pink

Im glad to hear the biggest red flag, when combined with many other red flags.. The one red flag that is consistent with every child molester is: "he's so great with kids! He is devoted and opens his home and heart..." That one single thing is present in every child molester. However, it's also present in people who would never ever ever not with a gun to their heads... Which is why it is used to screen out anyone who has many other red flags. I don't know about you but I feel better now!


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## Vulcan2013

Completely unrestrained sexuality is a threat to the stability of the society. Think fall of Rome. 

So women are slüt shamed to keep them in line. Men aren't shamed because they are already constrained by all the women who won't give them any.


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## rileyawes

Anon Pink said:


> Im glad to hear the biggest red flag, when combined with many other red flags.. The one red flag that is consistent with every child molester is: "he's so great with kids! He is devoted and opens his home and heart..." That one single thing is present in every child molester. However, it's also present in people who would never ever ever not with a gun to their heads... Which is why it is used to screen out anyone who has many other red flags. I don't know about you but I feel better now!


Yeah, I'm not worried about his behavior, and he doesn't give me "that" feeling. I've definitely had people that ping my radar, and while I didn't notice them do anything wrong or inappropriate, you're right: it doesn't do to be complacent or too trusting. It's absolutely wise for all of us to keep our eyes and ears open, and not ignore our instincts.


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## rileyawes

Just for a different look at the matter:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201301/inside-look-sexual-fantasies

My husband is mostly an anxious attachment style, with a dash of avoidant thrown in.


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## TheTruthHurts

Vulcan2013 said:


> Completely unrestrained sexuality is a threat to the stability of the society. Think fall of Rome.
> 
> 
> 
> So women are slüt shamed to keep them in line. Men aren't shamed because they are already constrained by all the women who won't give them any.



Ha ha that's funny. Nice comeback.

Frankly I don't really know anyone who "slvt shames" and I haven't personally seen it, so it's not really a "thing" in my life.

Then again maybe that's because I live in an upper middle class, sexually repressed, Midwestern town.

Certainly "slvtery" is called out by parents to their children as part of child rearing, particularly in the context of sexual attitudes between boys and girls, and the tendency of boys to go for sex and girls to naively believe love and feelings are involved. But I think, if anything, it is more "dog shaming" as we are a pretty uptight lot.

When we see neighbors and classmates running around and appearing sexually active in nonmonogamous ways, we're usually concerned for them as opposed to being antagonistic toward them.

Slvt shaming may be more prevalent in other communities and the media, but not in my real life experience.

Frankly, a much bigger concern for me now is teaching my impossibly naive, smart, good looking athletic boys about the world outside our little bubble. They are far more likely to get played by a girl than anything else.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ChargingCharlie

I'll add my .02 very late to the OP - does seem very strange to me. I can't fathom having sexual fantasies like that. We have friends that are attractive women, and with one exception I can't even view them sexually (exception being one friend who is decent looking and has a super charged sex drive - I occasionally masturbate thinking of her).


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## rileyawes

ChargingCharlie said:


> I'll add my .02 very late to the OP - does seem very strange to me. I can't fathom having sexual fantasies like that. We have friends that are attractive women, and with one exception I can't even view them sexually (exception being one friend who is decent looking and has a super charged sex drive - I occasionally masturbate thinking of her).


Is her "super charged sex drive" what makes her more attractive to you than the other friends? "Decent looking" isn't really a ringing endorsement of her physical charms, which is why I ask. How do you know that she has a super charged sex drive? If you're married, it doesn't seem like it's exactly an appropriate conversation where this might come up. I'm kind of regretting this thread. It's making me a little sick.


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## ChargingCharlie

rileyawes said:


> Is her "super charged sex drive" what makes her more attractive to you than the other friends? "Decent looking" isn't really a ringing endorsement of her physical charms, which is why I ask. How do you know that she has a super charged sex drive? If you're married, it doesn't seem like it's exactly an appropriate conversation where this might come up. I'm kind of regretting this thread. It's making me a little sick.


Yep, that's it. She talks about how she and her husband are always having sex. They've been caught several times in semi-public places. My wife says that the friend is a sex freak (although my wife has a sex drive of zero, so anyone having sex more than once a month is a freak in her mind. 

Note that she's not an indiscreet woman - but I have heard her talk about how they did it in the car, on her desk at work, in the closet hiding from their child (after their child caught them in the act with her on top).


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## Luvher4life

SunnyT said:


> Interesting topic.
> 
> Question: Does the level of a man's sexual fulfillment relate to the number or variety of fantasies?
> 
> As in, if a man is sexually satisfied (or satisfied with his sex life) is he still fantasizing about so many other females? Would he have less fantasies about other women if he had as much sex as he'd like? Would he be more likely to fantasize about his wife is she were really satisfying him?


IME, there is a relationship between the two. For me, sexual fulfillment has decreased the actual number and changed some of the variety of fantasies. It definitely doesn't completely "stop" them. I think my fantasies have changed to include my wife in the vast majority of them. I don't lust as much for other women as much as I used to. Now, it's less sexual when I look at other women. Not completely non-sexual, just not automatic, if that makes sense.

I can appreciate beauty and sexiness still, and catch myself thinking what they would be like in bed sometimes. I hate to admit that, but it's true. I think women do the same thing to some extent, some more than others. For the most part, now, I just look at how pretty they are, and the package they represent, not necessarily in a sexual context.


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## rileyawes

ChargingCharlie said:


> Yep, that's it. She talks about how she and her husband are always having sex. They've been caught several times in semi-public places. My wife says that the friend is a sex freak (although my wife has a sex drive of zero, so anyone having sex more than once a month is a freak in her mind.
> 
> Note that she's not an indiscreet woman - but I have heard her talk about how they did it in the car, on her desk at work, in the closet hiding from their child (after their child caught them in the act with her on top).


That's the definition of indiscreet. I definitely wouldn't like any woman talking like that with my husband, and if some man, friend or not, tried to go into detail about his sex life with me, I'd be uncomfortable and probably angry.


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## SunCMars

The sexual fantasies aside. Why would a grown man disclose this information?

He is wacky. He needs real help.

I would start to consider my long term options with this guy.


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## BetrayedDad

rileyawes said:


> He also revealed that he's had sexual fantasies about almost all of our acquaintances, including those over 70 years of age, my own mom, significantly overweight and unattractive women


You're husband is disgusting.... 

I mean seriously, what is wrong with YOUR self esteem that you would file for divorce immediately. He's already cheated on you, now this?!? You can do better then this nasty dude, I promise. RUN.


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## rileyawes

Why is kind of a convoluted story and I'm not positive. I thought he was in contact with someone he agreed he wouldn't be (not an OW, a really troubled and toxic family member). He said he'd only called once to say that he wouldn't be in contact at least for the time being, but he hadn't told me because he thought I would be mad. Of course, I was mad because he hadn't told me, but wouldn't have been had he talked to me about it first or told me soon after. Then, after we'd cleared it up, he said that he was attracted to an intern at work. I asked why he'd told me and he said he was "trying to be honest." I asked what he liked about her and he told me, and I thought it seemed a lot like what he said about his ex and "friend" so when he went back to work, I went through his emails and facebook and found some stuff that didn't sit right, so when he got back we had a looooooong conversation about it and it basically amounted to an EA. Somehow in that, it came out. I think it was when were talking about why he was looking at so many girls' facebook photos, facebook messaging his ex and a girl he tried to date before me, and emailing and friending exes. 

I'm not sure what's wrong with my self-esteem. Before this, I would have said nothing, but yeah all this stuff is doing a number on it, definitely. We've just been married a year, so I guess I'm seeing whether it can feel right to me. I'm still pretty on the fence, honestly.


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## rileyawes

I can't edit anymore for some reason, so adding. 

Several people in the thread have said my husband is normal and I'm overreacting, so I'm trying not to rush to any decisions.


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## Catherine602

@rileyawes and several people told you he is twisted. You want to stay with him so you will believe whatever supports your desire. 

You don't have to rationalize staying with him. At the same time, you have to accept his illness and the risk that he will continue to cheat. Have him wear condoms when you have sex and have a full battery of STD test every 6 months.

At some point, you will leave but only when the pain and humiliation outweighs the connivence of marriage.


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## TAM2013

OP,

If he's a paedophile, he ain't going to say something like that to you. Paedos work exactly the opposite way, but I digress. His comments on that were misguided at worst in my opinion. See it as an auntie saying her nephew is going to "be a heart breaker" when he's older. You know, 'cos it's fine when women suggest it.

Have you seen Helen Mirren at 70? I'd be more worried if he didn't fantasize. And so what if some of the women are 'significantly overweight and unattractive' as you put it? You are doing your gender a disservice. Teenage boys fantasize over super models but when you grow up, you come to appreciate women for who they are as a whole, not how they fit in to what we are told/sold.

I think you will find most men, decent men fantasize over a huge range of different women, a lot of the time and would never act on it. Taking advantage of a power imbalance (because she's significantly overweight or unattractive or because she thinks she's 'empowered and liberated') is an abuse and is overstepping the mark. Fantasizing is not.

Society has gone fvcking mad. Are women (and already feminized men) not going to be happy until all men are feminized, metrosexual, androgynous lumps to serve as fvck buddies on their rota? And incidentally, isn't it interesting how slvt shaming made its way into this thread. So a woman can behave as promiscuously as she wants, then spits her dummy out when men don't like it. But if a man even thinks about it, he's a disgusting pervert who needs therapy.

Absolutely staggering.


----------



## rileyawes

TAM2013 said:


> OP,
> 
> If he's a paedophile, he ain't going to say something like that to you. Paedos work exactly the opposite way, but I digress. His comments on that were misguided at worst in my opinion. See it as an auntie saying her nephew is going to "be a heart breaker" when he's older. You know, 'cos it's fine when women suggest it.
> 
> Have you seen Helen Mirren at 70? I'd be more worried if he didn't fantasize. And so what if some of the women are 'significantly overweight and unattractive' as you put it? You are doing your gender a disservice. Teenage boys fantasize over super models but when you grow up, you come to appreciate women for who they are as a whole, not how they fit in to what we are told/sold.
> 
> I think you will find most men, decent men fantasize over a huge range of different women, a lot of the time and would never act on it. Taking advantage of a power imbalance (because she's significantly overweight or unattractive or because she thinks she's 'empowered and liberated') is an abuse and is overstepping the mark. Fantasizing is not.
> 
> Society has gone fvcking mad. Are women (and already feminized men) not going to be happy until all men are feminized, metrosexual, androgynous lumps to serve as fvck buddies on their rota? And incidentally, isn't it interesting how slvt shaming made its way into this thread. So a woman can behave as promiscuously as she wants, then spits her dummy out when men don't like it. But if a man even thinks about it, he's a disgusting pervert who needs therapy.
> 
> Absolutely staggering.


I know he's not a pedo, someone else suggested it, not me. After I gave more info, she was satisfied as well that he's not. No, I don't think it's okay for an "auntie" to say. His "mom" (not his real mom) said things like that and it was creepy as hell. I don't endorse the idea that it's okay for one gender to do things and not for another. Sometimes things are more socially accepted for one gender to do, but that doesn't mean that everyone thinks it's okay. If a considerate partner is "feminized," then, okay, bring 'em on. Again, never said it's okay for a woman to behave promiscuously and not for a man to do so, or to fantasize. I asked a question based on my personal feelings, and got a variety of answers. Not sure where exactly your opinions are coming from, or who you're talking to, as I don't think anyone said most of the things you're refuting.


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## Begin again

badsanta said:


> Icky factor aside...
> 
> Yes, men have very sexual minds. They become very active when our hormones build and queue us to bond with our partners. While these hormones build EVERYTHING seems sexual. I was making jello the other day and while it was jiggling I found myself thinking, "hmmmm I wonder what that would feel like if I stuck my **** into it!" Does this mean I will actually run to the store when I am home alone one day and buy enough boxes of jello to bake myself up a jiggly bowl of sexytime wigglers. ... perhaps I will try that...
> 
> Anyway, what was your question?
> 
> Badsanta


Thank you, BS, for the image of you contemplating your **** in jello. Made me laugh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badsanta

Begin again said:


> Thank you, BS, for the image of you contemplating your **** in jello. Made me laugh.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I never could decide which would be better, regular or sugar free, so I gave up on that idea. While typing this I came up with a new idea...

Corn starch made into a newtonian fluid. OMG that would be perfect for a tantric training exercise. You have to go really slow or it will turn into a solid brick and hurt!

:grin2:

Now THAT I might actually try! OMG looks what happens when you combine a newtonian fluid with vibrations (say from a hitachi strapped to the bottom of a large bowl).










I know what I'm doing now FOR SURE the next time I'm home alone!

Badsanta


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## Looking2Change

As a male with a super high sex drive THIS IS NOT NORMAL... Def. something wrong with him. I didn't read the entire thread just the beginning so I might be jumping in too late but I hope he gets/has gotten help because this is not at all normal.


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## rileyawes

When2Leave said:


> As a male with a super high sex drive THIS IS NOT NORMAL... Def. something wrong with him. I didn't read the entire thread just the beginning so I might be jumping in too late but I hope he gets/has gotten help because this is not at all normal.


Thanks. He's away for work, so he won't be able to start looking at ICs for another three weeks. What about it do you think is not normal? I would kind of like to ask our couples counselor, but there are other problems, and I'd rather focus on our interpersonal issues instead of getting dragged down into a rabbit hole of his personal issues.


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## Looking2Change

rileyawes said:


> Thanks. He's away for work, so he won't be able to start looking at ICs for another three weeks. What about it do you think is not normal? I would kind of like to ask our couples counselor, but there are other problems, and I'd rather focus on our interpersonal issues instead of getting dragged down into a rabbit hole of his personal issues.


Honestly, the entire thing. First of all as guys we always have fantasies but they don't involve thinking about a kid and what they will be like when they are older or an elderly person. 

Me personally, I think more about scenarios than actual people. Don't get me wrong I love a beautiful woman as much as the next guy but not to the point that I'm pointing out, to my wife, about what I'm thinking about some less than average person.

It is possible that he's trying to get a rise out of you and see how you respond. If he's being honest then something just isn't right here. I mostly fantasize about things I want to do with my wife and how she would look if she dressed a certain way or wore makeup a certain way. This may or may not be the norm but looking at obese women, elderly women, and esp. children and fantasizing over them is nothing I've ever thought of personally and NEVER heard any of my male friends talk about.


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## rileyawes

When2Leave said:


> Honestly, the entire thing. First of all as guys we always have fantasies but they don't involve thinking about a kid and what they will be like when they are older or an elderly person.
> 
> Me personally, I think more about scenarios than actual people. Don't get me wrong I love a beautiful woman as much as the next guy but not to the point that I'm pointing out, to my wife, about what I'm thinking about some less than average person.
> 
> It is possible that he's trying to get a rise out of you and see how you respond. If he's being honest then something just isn't right here. I mostly fantasize about things I want to do with my wife and how she would look if she dressed a certain way or wore makeup a certain way. This may or may not be the norm but looking at obese women, elderly women, and esp. children and fantasizing over them is nothing I've ever thought of personally and NEVER heard any of my male friends talk about.


That's interesting. I thought the same thing, but got a lot of flak on this thread for feeling that way. I certainly notice attractive men, but I don't really care to think about having sex with them. Sometimes it happens, though!! But I don't cultivate a fantasy about it. It makes me feel a bit guilty doing it, plus it's a waste of energy because I'm not going to act on it. I'd rather put that energy toward my marriage or sexual fulfillment with my husband. 

Husband says that 95% of his fantasies are about me, the rest are about people he knows, and to a lesser extent porn / acts on faceless or random bodies. But that can't possibly be true, because I asked, and he named over 20 friends and acquaintances he's had sexual fantasies about, about half of whom I also know, which I think is super weird, and he thinks I'm supposed to be okay with it, because it's "normal" and "all men do it." He says he wouldn't like me doing the same, and he wouldn't feel good about it, yet at the same time he defends his doing it by saying he "didn't know it was wrong" and has stopped now, but undermines that by continuing to say that sometimes he can't help it and that all men do it, it's natural for men to look for sexual partners and spread their seed, and he's just looking and not going to do anything, etc etc.

I do have some insecurity around this. I was doing some reading online and it's pretty much a textbook thing that the PUA community advises- lowering a woman's self esteem by putting her down to make her want you. Husband isn't very much into the internet or anything, so I'm sure he hasn't read up about this, but it could be that he's internalized some bad advice he got early on (some of his friends are dodgy as hell), or that it's an unconscious thing that he's doing sort of on purpose to give himself more power in the relationship or something.

I'm pretty sad about the state of human beings. Google "how to lower a woman's self esteem" and you probably will be too. :-/


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## TheTruthHurts

@rileyawes that sucks. I've been trying for years to raise my W's self esteem. That's hard enough to do...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl

I deleted the thread jack. If you want to argue the topic, go start another thread on it. 

On this thread stick to addressing the OP and her issues.


{Speaking as a moderator}


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## Catherine602

Is it possible that your husband was a victim of CSA? I would not ask him directly but ask questions about his childhood.


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