# Unhappily ever after



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

*1 September 2008*

I have been married for 4 years, with him for 8 years. He's done some things that are maltempered/violet when he gets upset (punched a coffee pot 2 years ago, the coffee hit me and my 3 month old baby with hot coffee. months ago He grabbed my arm while I was driving on the freeway and shook me so hard my head hit the window. my daughter was in the car.) I just recently found out he doesnt like one of my favorite bands, but this whole time he said he loved them. He said he said that to get with me. Who is he? I am wondering. Our daughter (almost 2) was 100% planned, we tried for a year to have her. last week he yelled when he was mad, "our lives would be perfect if it wasnt for this f*****g kid. I balled for 2 days on that. I love having her. Has he changed? He is pushing me away. I'm not terribly attracted to him. He never said sorry about that until one night i went to my friends and drank my heart out balling, then realized how bad it hurt me, then said sorry. I've never .... never seen him initiate an apology. I usually bring it up to work it out. He usually says sorry but doesnt show it. For example, the violence, he says sorry but it keeps happening. 8 years is hard for me to walk away from but I want to. I never intended for things to be like this. I never planned to raise my daughter without her daddy in my life. I know sometimes i can be snappy, calling the bluffs. When he comes home from work he ignores me, does not say hi, does not acknowledge my presence. I feel done. Am I ? Help. I have had a mild crush on someone...and i feel terrible about it. I dont feel he wants me, and I dont know if I want him anymore. . I am 24, we were married when I was 20. he is 28. 

I have told him all these feelings. even the crush. I told him I would like a separation. He threatened to kill himself. He described exactly how he would do it. he said and our baby wont ever have a dad. It will be all your fault!!! I balled for an hour. Decided not to get a separation, but still feel like I should. please help. 

*21 September 2008*

We are now separated as of 9-15. We are back from "vacation" and now he is staying with my grandma. He is telling all my family how much he loves me and his plans to imporve himself. But just last week he spoke of killing himself, and how much he hates himself. I told him that is why we will never work (because of the self hate) He speaks of councelling (which is good). I feel I've reached my breaking point with him, he's been so verbally abusive, and mildly violent tempered. I have always forgiven him and acted like nothing happened the next day. I've always believed that anything that happens in the marriage should stay in it, the couple can work it out and make it stronger. But I see no improvement in the past three years. My husband doesnt take care of himself he weighs 130 and is 6'2". Many people comment on his appearance and dark cicles around the eye, low body weight, and say he looks sick. In the past he has promised to improve himself but still see no results. He has missed all the appointments I've made for him regarding his anger and physical health. Will he stop the violent tendencies? I do not trust him anymore. He has promised this before. He claims to have changed overnight and says he will always love me and wait for me. I have fallen out of love with him. I've had so many nervous breakdowns and am completely unhappy with my marriage. 

It has been hard not living with him since I decided to break. Did I make the right choice? I still do not want him anymore. I feel I have such deep 'scars' from all the abuse. I don't know how to maintain my well being, shouldn't I feel better? Maybe it is because I have been drinking more. I never used to drink to get 'drunk', just for good times and rarely. Lately I am drinking nightly. I feel so many mood swings when I am drunk, crying, anger, sadness, lonliness. I know I need to stop for now and will starting today until some resolution happens. Please help with advise. 

Drinking: he drinks every day to unwind. Not necessarily to get drunk but he drinks hard martini's and multiple shots of vodka.

We are comfortable, stable. I bring in 1800/month working from home.

yes i've been living with him the whole 8 years. Since I was 17. I went to college from 18-20. I do feel trapped. I havent really had a chance to experience life. Could there be someone better for me?

he gets very upset when I 'bring up past incidents' as if I box it all up and cant forgive. He said he would never/could never do that to me. Maybe I cant. (talking about the violent portions) The thing is I have forgiven him. Once I see it as reoccuring, the 'sorry' he said meant nothing if it keeps happening right? So by nature, It all comes up as a negative. Its like beating a dead horse. 

So I did it I separated. He is trying so hard. He is so different. He is not real, his mind changes with the wind. One minute he hates me, wants to kill himself, the next day he loves himself and wants us to work. I feel so F***ed over in the long run. 

*2 October 2008*

I don't trust him. He has promised change many many times. My heart is broken. I even want to indulge in cheating. Can you believe it? I want to cheat, although I've never done this before. I want to be loved. I know its illegal. I feel trapped. Now that we've been separated he is sleeping on the couch and has 30 days to get out. He is trying like hell to get my attention by buying me flowers (never has before), bought me a laptop, fixed my white gold chain, put pictures in a fram I bought months ago, etc. I am mad at myself for falling out of love but I can't just snap my fingers to turn the fire back on. (WHY does he love me NOW!?) I resent him. I despise him. I am being more mean than ever before! I want another. I want to have fun in life, be happy. I want to get as far away from his as possible. Hang out with friends and meet another guy. In lust only. How dare I? I want freedom. I want out. I'm so conflicted, please help. So many guys are now 'interested' now that the ring is off my finger. I am longing for that.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

ok, what i'm going to say might not help, but read it anyway.

i used to be a pretty bad dude. macho displays look stupid from the outside world. but they're real.

punching the coffee maker is real stupid, to me. but to the dude doing them, "hey, i didn't hit you" crap tends to be the mindset. and true, he didn't hit you, but coffee splashed, maybe on the baby. bad.

get in the car, drive 150 mph on the winding mountain road, "hey, i didn't crash" might be the thought but it's still stupid.

ok, his behavior was stupid. that's what it was, stupid, selfish.

now, you...you want to end this marriage(?), you want lust for another, you're not attracted to him??? you've started drinking? you know what the result of that will be. why are YOU destroying what little you have?

and you say since separating, he is "trying." you've seen evidence of that. but besides everything, you want to have "fun?" you ain't ever gonna have "fun." you are as destructive as your husband. stop, look at your words. YOU HATE YOURSELF! if you think leaving him is going to end your problems....think again.

LAST THING: DO NOT HANG AROUND WAITING FOR THE NEXT VIOLENT OUTBURST. I KNOW, YOU'VE ALREADY WAITED AROUND, BAD.

ps- just found out he don't like one of your favorite bands and he used to say he liked 'em. are you hearing yourself!?!? oh to be young! i pretended to like obsession cologne because my wife loved it. and it was me wearing it!!!!


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

You are right I don't necessarily like hearing that. But, point taken. It could be alot worse. I didn't 'start' drinking, I have always been a social drinker. Lately I just am not a 'happy' drunk as usual. I have been a quiet/cold/depressed drunk...so I stopped. lol 

Maybe I have been trying to get his attention. I've tried all things positive. So maybe I see it as my last resort ? 

Yes I have lost the attraction for him. he is 135lbs and 6'2". I've begged and pleaded with him to go to the doctor. but he wont. He drinks vodka nightly. His eyes have dark cicles and he looks skeletal. I'm not trying to be shallow. I guess all the negativity has just piled up. I'm so heart broken with the verbal abuse. He's even spit on me after he threatened to kill himself. 4 years man. 4 years we have had it rough. 

Did you even read where he shook me so hard in a violent rage my head hit the window while on the freeway? My daughter was in the car. 

Maybe I am trying to get him to hate me by going out, making him jealous, keeping my distance. Or maybe I have just decided to have enough self respect to not put up with the hate toward me. 

I know the band thing is childish. But, its not about the band...its about me not knownig who he really is and what side of him will come out next.


----------



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Getting away from an abusive situation is a good idea. You shouldnt subject yourself, or your child to that. But i agree with voivod. Unless you get some help for yourself you will find another guy that is just as abusive. You have a kid. think about that before you go finding any more 'freedom'.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

You are in an abisive situation that can only get worse. He will say or do anything in the short span to get you back than he will do it all over again. This wears down self esteem until the abuser has complete control over you. Your esteem seems to be eroded a bit but you are still fighting.

Do yourself a favor and your daughter and get out. He might have so much nice in him but his flaws are dangerous to you and your little girl. Imagine an outburst towards your daughter if you were not there?

GET OUT.

I wish you well.

Maybe the judge can get him into violence no more/ and counsiling.

draconis


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

draconis is right...google "stockholm syndrome" cuz that's where you're headed (you need to be scared?)

also, you said:

>>>Maybe I am trying to get him to hate me by going out, making him jealous, keeping my distance. Or maybe I have just decided to have enough self respect to not put up with the hate toward me<<<

you're as bad as he is, don't you see...stop it! THIS IS NOT A GAME!!! i can't see you respecting yourself and making that statement. i'm 46 years old and i would give it all to go back to your age and NOT take on so much baggage! goddamit, read your own words! can't you see. if you don't love yourself, undrestand this: God loves you and your child. stoppppp it!


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

voivod, 

no arguments here. Your honesty is much appreciated. I am going through a rough time. I will get through it to be happy again. Thank you a million times. I realize I am flawed and torn and hurt. I am acting out in the worse way possible. Who would have thought that a stranger on the net would call me out on it.


----------



## Mary-Lou (Oct 4, 2008)

You have to get a divorce this cannot keep going.

You need timea nd space to take care of you and of your child.
and he must be out of the way.
he is an alcoholic, they hide it well, which explain the skeletic appearance
He refused to go to doc and anythign you idd to help him improve his health and it only show that he know what cause it and know that a doc will know it immediatly too.
He never bought you flowers in 8 years together!? WOW! 
what an---
and so young
thats really bad
the pictures in a frame "after" and all the attention things "after" must be so frustrating for you, i understand you very well.
To love you is not enough he got to show it to you and to have done so long ago alraedy also how you love soemoen is important. He is a dangerosu perosn fofr you.
The coffee pot was real bad thing but the one on the car and yoru head hitting the glas!? Hello!
he should be put in jail for that he could ahve kill you all, what if you had lost consciousness after your head hited the window?
the car will have gone away on the highway and goodbye everybody!
he is unconsequent.
You ahve to go you dont love him get him out the house definitly dont care abotu his suicid threats, even call oyur doc to tell him about htat and send him to get special help.
he isnt your problem anymore but his own problem.
You married very young and only knew him and its true you lack experience and spend 8 years of oyur life like trapped in one bubble.
You need to go out and see the world.
You need to be with yoruself an drebuld you and you need to found out what you want with oyur life and what fun means.¨
Do that for you.
that he blamed the daughter for you 2 not havign a perfect marriage is the worse he could do.
he just show ho wirresponsible he is and he put it on "the other" always to dont have to take charge and do the rigth things.
Walk away or more exactly throw him out the door.
You are kind, pretty and clever, you still got oyur life in front of you, so get out this bad marriage before it hurt you more.
Be ready to put a restraining order on him cause the way he is behaving he might be a danger for you in the future.

H eis drinking cause he is sick and now oyu drink cause it made you sick..
thats a vicious circle, it is hurting you completely, leave it.
It is very normal for you to have those needs of freedom and of having fun, and of experiencing life and of needing love and to feel love.
Dont feel guilty about it. Why should you?
You ahve the rigth to be free and the rigth to be happy and the right to be loved and to lvoe, and the right to be appreciated and respected.
Dont deny yourself those rigths Niki.

Good luck with it and keep us updated, i wish you all the best.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

:smthumbup:

I would like to thank you all for your honest opinions, especially voivod. I have done alot of soul searching and realized my attempts to fix this pattern of destructive behavior in my marriage has to start with me and my attitude toward it. It also has to start with my husband and his attitude toward our marriage. That is the only way it will work. 

I feel my marriage may be worth saving. My husband has made such a 360 in attitude. Probably from the scare of losing me. He's reached out for councelling. We saw the movie "Fireproof" as homework. He's been doing housework, playing with our daughter more. He now has two days off work instead of 1. He says one of those days is family time. I think he is seriously commited to bettering himself. I hope and I pray that it lasts. His attitude toward his family and his health have completely transformed. I am timid about his improvements but I hope they are real. He does the nicest things for me lately and I don't know what to think because I am not used to such nice treatment. I am still demanding that he go to anger management councelling, continue marriage councelling, see a doctor (gain weight, check blood sugar imbalances), and quit drinking. He agrees and knows he will lose me if he does not follow through. 

Mary-Lou, you are right, it is and was frustrating seeing these attempts NOW, and not before when it mattered. Since he's kept it up I have hope that his attempts might be really comming from the heart. He left me myspace comments with songs like "I walk the line" by Johnny Cash, and Al Green's "Let's stay together." He has bought me my favorite ice creams and cheese cake. These little things aren't everything but I am so greatful that he's been so thoughtful. I havent had that in such a long time. He even said "I will never act violent or get so angry I can't control myself again, and if I do, I will know I don't deserve you. I wont even hold you back when you leave me." 

I have hope that I can fall in love with him again. At this point I havent but time will tell. 

*We are separated. But he moved back into the house for 30 days so he can find a place. We havent slept together for 3+ weeks. I am not sure how long I should continue the separation. Or if I should still make him move out?*:scratchhead:

I truely hope he means to improve himself. I also need to improve myself and my attitude toward my family and myself. I am ending the path of self destruction and indulgence.

Thank you all from the bottem of my heart!
<3


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I really hope he does follow through. One idea is to have him sign a contract stating what he is expected to do. 

We are always here for YOUR support.

draconis


----------



## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

I don't know, girl I don't believe someone like that can change overnight. I know you want to make a go of it and he says he does too. BUT, in a few months, a year (max)...I'll bet dollars to donuts that he's doing exactly the same thing. It's time you recognize this and bail (IMHO). If he does change, then after, say, a year or so, then you could try getting back together. But he needs to get himself straight first. And you can offer all the support you want - SEPARATELY! But you should not stay around someone who would put your life and your daughter in danger! Someone who would say such a vile thing that life would be perfect if not for her is despicable. You would be well rid of him forever, but do separate and make him prove that he's going to get better. On the outside, he can say to anyone that he's doing XX, inside the house, however, only you will know if he truly is. There is no excuse for his actions. None. And there should be no reason for you to stay.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

dude CAN change one thing at a time overnight. ronald reagan said "trust, but verify." ok, take him at his word, but make him accountable for his actions. DRACONIS is right about that contract thing. IN WRITING with ramifications...here's what i DEMAND, if you DON'T follow through, i'm leaving for THE LAST TIME.

i am so happy you feel it can be saved. i really am. good luck. read dracs thesis on communication, for your own good, ok?


----------



## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

I don't think so Voivod. Even only ONE thing overnight? Nope. Anything takes time, several takes much longer! Yes, get it in writing, and make it clear you will BE GONE. FOREVER. it won't happen, girl; not from what I've read. Prepare yourself to get on with your life.


----------



## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

BTW: Reagan was the only president that scared the H.LL out of me. His finger was next to the football and we elected that demented, senile old fart!


----------



## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

also, btw: the phrase "trust but verify" came from: The phrase has also been attributed to U.S. journalist and fiction writer Damon Runyon, 1884-1946[citation needed]


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

dcrim said:


> I don't think so Voivod. Even only ONE thing overnight? Nope. Anything takes time, several takes much longer! Yes, get it in writing, and make it clear you will BE GONE. FOREVER. it won't happen, girl; not from what I've read. Prepare yourself to get on with your life.



I think a better way to say it is that things like that have to be proven over time, so they build trust and prove it isn't gaming to keep someone hanging on.

draconis


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

dcrim...
SEE...you VERIFIED!!! Don'y trust me!


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

dcrim said:


> I don't think so Voivod. Even only ONE thing overnight? Nope. Anything takes time, several takes much longer! Yes, get it in writing, and make it clear you will BE GONE. FOREVER. it won't happen, girl; not from what I've read. Prepare yourself to get on with your life.



i'm my own focus group. i quit cigarettes, drinking, cocaine overnight. maybe i was never addicted, but i could find lotsa people who say i was.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

I have an update on my situation:

Yesterday was an overall good day. We even went to church with the baby that morning and got SO much inspiration out of it. We are civil and not fighting when around each other. I am not being affectionate on purpose. Well last night we were watching a movie after the baby went to bed. He wanted to rub my feet (I would love that usually but I said no thanks). I don't want to give him affection because my heart is not in it...I have fallen out of love. I have hope that I may fall back in love. After too many broken hearts and promises I guess that is what happens. 

He decides to go to the store late at night. While I am outside smoking a cigarette I see him pull in the driveway. He sits and waits for over 4 minutes. I went to see what was wrong. As I opened the passenger side door, I see him stash a miniature vodka bottle. I see a brown paperbag full of about 6 miniature bottles. I shut the door! Livid, I came in the house and locked the door. 

(btw, voivod, I hadn't shown him the 'i Demand' paper yet. It was still on my desk. I gave it to him while we were going rounds)

Earlier that night I even said, "I have hope, Jason. All the nice things you are doing for me are giving me hope and I love how nice you're being, I am not used to it and it feels good. Thank you!! It gives me hope to keep on working with you, But it doesnt take away from the bigger issues at hand." his reply, "I don't want to F**king talk about it. thats what we always talk about!" 


3 weeks ago when he quit he blamed his alcohol on being violent, angry, and saying the wrong thing! He quit three weeks ago. I asked him why he was drinking that night. He said "becuase none of this is worth it. I have lost hope." and "I'm so lonely". TO ME that sounds like an alcoholic. When you drink as a crutch or for negative reasons, or to replace emotions...?:scratchhead:

anyway we went rounds. I was calm, upset, disappointed. Because if I wasn't around he would waste away and I told him that. He said I needed to earn his respect back. That I've been in the wrong and tried to place blame where it didn't belong. 

Mind you, the counselor did not tell me what I needed to improve. He told my husband to communicate TO ME right away. Because he claimed that he's been upset for months and I had no clue. He said he was drinking and upset that that is why he is violent. WTF he is impossible!! The counselor gave him some advise to practice. It just goes in the works for the first couple days....then its the same ol' bs. 

please help! is this worth it? I am giving him a fighting chance. I want him to live happily. God knows I will live happy again whatever it takes~!!!


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Move out with the baby and do not go back unless he Joins AA and can stay sober for a few months. Otherwise this becomes a cycle. He will break you again and again, you deserve better and deep down you know it. Also there is no reason for children to be around an alcoholic.

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

I am crying abit....reading that leave him bit. Cuz...HE has to leave...we live with my dad. I gave him 30 days to get out (NOV 1). Also, I can hardly recommend that he quit drinking. His whole family drinks, my dad drinks with him (I have never seen my dad violent all growing up when drinking. I know he doesn't use it as a crutch either!!). Also, I drink every now and then, not daily. Just during bar-b-q's and a couple with friends. How can I demand that he quit? He doesn't even accept that he has a problem with it anymore. He admitted it a couple times but has changed his mind to "It was just to catch a buzz" AND MY DAD SUPPORTS THAT!


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

NikiVicious said:


> I am crying abit....reading that leave him bit. Cuz...HE has to leave...we live with my dad. I gave him 30 days to get out (NOV 1). Also, I can hardly recommend that he quit drinking. His whole family drinks, my dad drinks with him (I have never seen my dad violent all growing up when drinking. I know he doesn't use it as a crutch either!!). Also, I drink every now and then, not daily. Just during bar-b-q's and a couple with friends. How can I demand that he quit? He doesn't even accept that he has a problem with it anymore. He admitted it a couple times but has changed his mind to "It was just to catch a buzz" AND MY DAD SUPPORTS THAT!


When ever you need alcohol, rely on it to relax, it changes your mood etc. then you have a problem. If you have a problem the WORST thing you can do is drink. My F-I-L is an alcoholic, 20 years sober and fell of the wagon. Boy didn't he change in those six months. His family didn't want to be around him, at christmas last year we packed up the kids and left because of how bad he was. He is back to being sober and thank God for AA.

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

so should I quit drinking? Since I realized that alcohol was affecting me negatively. I have stopped until I know I am stable minded. I don't think I can make him quit. My dad doesn't think he has to! My dad is no role model when it comes to drinking. But he is not a bad guy when he drinks either. Just a little funny and abnoctious. Our friends think he used to drink TOO much. 1/3 of 1/5 per day. 

We moved back here from florida a little over a year ago. I used to be the main breadwinner. I worked for the phone company as a DSL Tech. Made good money. I got layed off when I was 4 months pregnant. He stayed at home playing online, sometimes porn, and video games. He was trying to get his onsite computer repair company off the ground. (Now in NM it has taken off quite well and is more stable than ever before) Moved back here when our daughter was 10 months old. I would have left him after the hot coffeepot incident (YES it was hot). But I didn't want to abandoned all I worked so hard for (my home, baby items, furniture, electronics, home entertainment center). Maybe a little materialistic. So it was my plan to move back here to NM. My belongings are here and now I have friends and family and support here. After a year I have finally worked up courage to leave (I Think?!)

*am I beating a dead horse? Most of u say DIVORCE. *


I guess I am scared. My feelings are all mixed up. I have been giving him a fighting chance because it seems its the right thing to do since i gave birth to his daughter and we've spent close to a decade together. *BUT IS IT? and why?*

When I read some of the posts of the men who are seperated on here, and how willing they are to work on their issues. I get sad. But I have respect for you guys. Even if he does the work, will I be here waiting? should I? I am also sad because I don't even want to kiss him anymore  and so what if he fixes all these things. IS THERE HOPE THAT I WILL ONE DAY WANT TO KISS HIM OR LOVE HIM AGAIN?


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

niki,
just keep this in mind:

love is a verb.

ok, just roll that around in your head.


----------



## husbandinthemking (Oct 3, 2008)

NikiVicious said:


> so should I quit drinking? Since I realized that alcohol was affecting me negatively. I have stopped until I know I am stable minded. I don't think I can make him quit. My dad doesn't think he has to! My dad is no role model when it comes to drinking. But he is not a bad guy when he drinks either. Just a little funny and abnoctious. Our friends think he used to drink TOO much. 1/3 of 1/5 per day.
> 
> We moved back here from florida a little over a year ago. I used to be the main breadwinner. I worked for the phone company as a DSL Tech. Made good money. I got layed off when I was 4 months pregnant. He stayed at home playing online, sometimes porn, and video games. He was trying to get his onsite computer repair company off the ground. (Now in NM it has taken off quite well and is more stable than ever before) Moved back here when our daughter was 10 months old. I would have left him after the hot coffeepot incident (YES it was hot). But I didn't want to abandoned all I worked so hard for (my home, baby items, furniture, electronics, home entertainment center). Maybe a little materialistic. So it was my plan to move back here to NM. My belongings are here and now I have friends and family and support here. After a year I have finally worked up courage to leave (I Think?!)
> 
> ...


I hope you don't mind me jumping in here...

When a child is involved in a family with an alcoholic, I say "seperate" for now. Just to see if he will change. Not every relationship can be saved mind you. And when it comes to the little ones, a safe home is needed at all costs. Granted, I did not see if you said he was unstable around them. But you need to be safe than sorry.

I would do these things here:

1) Get him out and away from the children. Tell him you love him, but he needs help. Seperation is best for now.

2) He will need to hit rock bottom before he gets betters. Keep this in mind. This can be scary. He will call, come over late at night, etc. once he sees you mean business. Be prepared at all times. This could get messy.

3) Ask him to join AA and keep you up to date. If he has proven himself for a few months, only then would I consider him in your life again. 

4) If you decide to let him back nto your life, take it slooooowly. Do not let him move back in right away. Date nights away from the kids is best. Places without alcohol.

As far as your drinking is concerned, It may be wise for you to hold of a bit also. Your dad will be the undoing of him as well. You will need to figure out a better living siutation if your dad will be around him drinking or having alcohol in the house. For alcoholics, it is one day at a time. This is a daily fight they take on. You will need to be as strong as he is.

Best of luck.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

NikiVicious said:


> Even if he does the work, will I be here waiting? should I? I am also sad because I don't even want to kiss him anymore  and so what if he fixes all these things. IS THERE HOPE THAT I WILL ONE DAY WANT TO KISS HIM OR LOVE HIM AGAIN?


I think you know the answers to your questions, now it is understanding them and fulfilling them.

draconis


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

you know, one thing i like about the separation idea is this: 

it allows the "leaver" the chance to prove to themselves, and more importantly the "left," that you can do it, financially, emotionally, etc.

maybe separate during this healing time, make sure his commitments are followed through on, the reunite when he has proven to you his commitment. 

what harm is done in that way? MAKE HIM SIGN A G****M CONTRACT AND LET HIM KNOW, ONE F***-UP, WE'RE DONE!

Oh yeah, he has a disease, don't have alcohol around him. but remember, he has a responsibility to that end too. AA and i will disagree on this, but you are not responsible for his sobriety. you shouldn't have to walk on egg shells. if you want a drink with your friends, you should be allowed. and just be aware, if you go this far, many experts feel that al-anon (good program) has been infiltrated by a "relationship busting" movement (uh-oh, here come the defenders of the faith)


----------



## seekingAdvice3 (Oct 6, 2008)

I haven't read each post here, but can quite quickly come to the conclusion that you should leave or get a divorce. You are on here making an effort to understand things, and I applaud you for that. Do you think he's trying like that? Trying to change or improve - it sure doesn't sound like it.

This will sound bad, but I posted a yesterday thinking my marriage was about to end over a miscommunication fight and both of us being selfish. The stuff your husband has done and the traits he has are incredibly harmful to you and your daughter and it doesn't sound like he's about to turn the corner. You already live with your Dad so it's not like you'll be out on the street. Can you get a court order or something to kick him out because of violence around a small child?


----------



## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

last week he yelled when he was mad, "our lives would be perfect if it wasnt for this f*****g kid. OOOOO.. 

You and your child would do much better without a f'n father and husband like that. It is bad enough that he hits you, but to take it out on a poor little child is so awful.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

draconis said:


> I think you know the answers to your questions, now it is understanding them and fulfilling them.


I keep going back and fourth. I'm not yet fixed on any one idea. I do not trust him. But I don't want a broken home. My heart is in it one day and so far away the next. 

We are still seperating and will be residing in different locations for now.

(PS: Sry my posts are so long. Just spilling my guts helps sometimes. lol)


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

Honey said:


> last week he yelled when he was mad, "our lives would be perfect if it wasnt for this f*****g kid. OOOOO..
> 
> You and your child would do much better without a f'n father and husband like that. It is bad enough that he hits you, but to take it out on a poor little child is so awful.



Although he does these things and it breaks me. He shows DEEP remorse for them. He has not actually ever hit me. But his temper scares me. I have gotten hurt physically due to his temper. So has my daughter. He has never actually hit or punched me or even pushed me. All has been indirectly with other objects around. like a cellphone flying at my head. or a hot coffee pot flying across the room, etc, etc, etc etc, etc. 

I don't even know if it would be called 'abuse'. these incidents are so spaced out. He doesn't always flip a lid to the point of no control. I guess I feel its happened 10 too many times.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Him doing what he does is a form of control and verbal abuse.

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

I guess what is keeping me from filing is ... It is so hard for me to walk away after so many years. He's all i've known really. With the exception of a couple boyfriends that didn't last a year when I was a teenager. 

I knew I was done when the coffeepot incident occured. BUT, at the time, we lived in a small town in FL. I had no friends or family. I was the main breadwinner. Most of our nice possessions like the flatscreens, computers, furniture and stuff were things I BOUGHT. I made decent $$ and have my degree in computer networking. He didn't work until I was 6 months pregnant. Even then he relied on local customers to have their computers fixed. We left Florida when my daughter was 10 months old. We've been back here a little over 1 year. I now have a support system. Friends and family I trust, a stable place to live, my own $$ (not much but enough). 

I think subconcoiusly I set my self up to end it. I think the recent desire to 'cheat' is a symptom of that. Because if he hated me it would be easier to walk away. Voi called me out on that. Said its destructive to what little is left of my marriage. He is right. But its not like I'm trying to keep my marriage either. ITS more hard because I have seen jason make appointments with doc's counsellors, called anger management. Buys me nice things, like a LAPTOP!? flowers i've never had, thoughtful pictures in a frame. 

voi, you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum here.


----------



## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

NikiVicious said:


> Although he does these things and it breaks me. He shows DEEP remorse for them. He has not actually ever hit me. But his temper scares me. I have gotten hurt physically due to his temper. So has my daughter. He has never actually hit or punched me or even pushed me. All has been indirectly with other objects around. like a cellphone flying at my head. or a hot coffee pot flying across the room, etc, etc, etc etc, etc.
> 
> I don't even know if it would be called 'abuse'. these incidents are so spaced out. He doesn't always flip a lid to the point of no control. I guess I feel its happened 10 too many times.



Don't make excuses for him, hun. What he is doing is wrong.
He may not hit you, but it still a form of control and verbal abuse like draconis said. He can still put you in the hospital with things flying at you, or you having a break down from dealing with his $#!^ for so long.


----------



## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

NikiVicious said:


> I guess what is keeping me from filing is ... It is so hard for me to walk away after so many years. He's all i've known really. With the exception of a couple boyfriends that didn't last a year when I was a teenager.
> 
> I knew I was done when the coffeepot incident occured. BUT, at the time, we lived in a small town in FL. I had no friends or family. I was the main breadwinner. Most of our nice possessions like the flatscreens, computers, furniture and stuff were things I BOUGHT. I made decent $$ and have my degree in computer networking. He didn't work until I was 6 months pregnant. Even then he relied on local customers to have their computers fixed. We left Florida when my daughter was 10 months old. We've been back here a little over 1 year. I now have a support system. Friends and family I trust, a stable place to live, my own $$ (not much but enough).
> 
> ...


OMG, hun, are you afraid you won't get anyone else? Are you really willing to stay and have things flying at you, when baby can't get his way and/or throws a fit? 

I think I rather stay single, love, than to put up with that $#!^.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Niki ~ Take your time to figure out what you really want. You might be heading for a divorce but why did you come here?

Divorce isn't the end of the world. It is just a new beginning.

However, I always suggest that you do everything to save it first.

These are things I think should happen.

1) He gets a stable job.
2) He stops all drinking and goes to AA.
3) You guys seperate for a few months to get perspective.
4) He continues to do the nice things even after he gets you back.
5) He spends time with his child (I mean quaility).
6) He get counciling and anger management.

If he can't or will not do these that would be a deal breaker.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

Why does he say stuff like:

I will be regretting this til I am cold and dead?

You will suffer without me?

Since you can't forgive me, of course I have thought about suicide? (i have forgiven many many times. he just woke up when it was too late for me to bear it any longer)

It's you that drives me to this self hate?


----------



## seekingAdvice3 (Oct 6, 2008)

Niki, those quotes from above are probably very tough to swallow, but I think he's trying to make you feel bad so he feels better, and you haven't done anything wrong.

With regards to a post above where you quoted something like "He has actually never hit me, just things flying at my head" In all honesty, to me, that's the same as hitting you. If he's throwing things against a wall or breaking something that is completely away from you, that's bad and shows obvious anger issues, but it also shows that he wouldn't do anything to you. But the fact that things are flying through the air AT YOU - that's no different than him actually hitting you with his own hand. I'm glad you are sticking to your guns and separating for a while.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

NikiVicious said:


> Why does he say stuff like:
> 
> I will be regretting this til I am cold and dead?
> 
> ...


It is a guilt trip and a way to control you through verbal abuse. He wants to keep you but wants to be his own person no matter what it does to the relationship. That is his version of damage control to set all the blame on you.

draconis


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

NikiVicious said:


> Why does he say stuff like:
> 
> I will be regretting this til I am cold and dead?
> 
> ...


niiki,

i'm not kidding...

google "stockholm syndrome"

read up and learn...

about where you're headed without some intervention FAST

i'm one who believes deeply in the sanctity of marriage

preserve it by doing what drac says:

>>>>These are things I think should happen.

1) He gets a stable job.
2) He stops all drinking and goes to AA.
3) You guys seperate for a few months to get perspective.
4) He continues to do the nice things even after he gets you back.
5) He spends time with his child (I mean quaility).
6) He get counciling and anger management.

If he can't or will not do these that would be a deal breaker.<<<<


AND help yourself with a little individual counseling so you don't fall into the trap if you DO reconcile...

there's a lotta love on this l'il forum, take it and use it...


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

...and he DOES have a good side, you've seen it...

>>>I have seen jason make appointments with doc's counsellors, called anger management. Buys me nice things, like a LAPTOP!? flowers i've never had, thoughtful pictures in a frame<<<<

it's his move, force his hand...


----------



## justean (May 28, 2008)

my first husband was abusive in physical and emotional. to be honest over time, it really didnt improve. even the girl he left me for, well for fact i know she has had emotional and physical abuse far more than i ever had of him. 
i dont think you deserve it. well i never n e way.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

Drac, I agree, those things you listed are things that I will have to see in him. I am just taking this time to be true to myself and my daughter. It is sure a roller coaster. Yes Voi, he does have a good side. But he is unstable, sometimes weak, and would screw me over in a heartbeat. He's agreed to quit drinking, we'll see how long that lasts. 

Wouldn't it be a success story if I was finally true to myself? I know many of you believe in the sanctity of marriage. I do too but DAMN!! I have had it so rough. I don't think he will change in the ways I need him to. 

Here is an update:

*October 8*

I let my husband know, even if he completes the demands like anger management, couples counseling, sees a doctor and gets physically healthy, and quits drinking completely...I can't guarantee he will have my heart. I guess I said those things so he didn't feel 'LED ON' (which I've been accused of before). 

*Here is the kicker! after I told him that he may not have my heart back even if he does all the right things, he gets on the phone with his brother (who absolutely loves to hate me. him and his wife have stopped at nothing to thrash my family, gossip mongers, love negativity, love to hate me, need I say more?) Well that night I felt bad that I broke his heart a little more by saying that so I went out to buy him some cigarettes and a burger! When I come back, I heard this man on the phone 'you could say she is legally insane and make her look like an unfit mother. to which my husband replied, "Yeah that would be the only thing I could do." *

WTF!? They were plotting against me. My husband has said it himself, they are my family but I keep them at a distance for a reason. But when he feels like revenge he slanders me ? 

All I told him was, _"YOU SHOULD KNOW ME BETTER than that. I would never F**k you over. I would never try to make your life harder even if a divorce occurs. I have never been scandelous. Its not like me."_ Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde. 

He has said and done some other things that have made me wonder who he is. He told my family I demanded $3000 of his $ for this month. Completely untrue, he doesn't even make that. He never has. I pay ALL the bills. He only started paying rent in March. Thats ALL he's ever had to pay. He's also got his sister in law harrassing me through text message. Saying that I use him for his $ (oh no, he doesnt have $!). Saying that I mindf***ed him and this is all my fault. Calling me a SL*t. Calling me low down dirty names. I got 91 text messages in one night To which ALL of them were ignored. I did not reply as it is not their busness. My husband is scandelous. He would F**k me in a heart beat. 

It just goes to show, he doesnt not understand the bigger picture and the purpose of this break. I think he hates me, but he says he loves me. This is a giant roller coaster ride. This is why I CANNOT trust the nice things he is doing. Under the surface, he is just as manipulative as his brother and sister in law. He's let them in our marriage. That is the scariest thing I could have thought of.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

justean said:


> my first husband was abusive in physical and emotional. to be honest over time, it really didnt improve. even the girl he left me for, well for fact i know she has had emotional and physical abuse far more than i ever had of him.
> i dont think you deserve it. well i never n e way.


Today is a day, that I agree. No one deserves that. this word "ABUSE" is brand new to me. As well as the word "ALCOHOLIC" I guess I've never put two and two together.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

voivod said:


> niiki,
> 
> i'm not kidding...
> 
> ...


The first time you told me to google stockholm syndrome. I did. 

I was beside myself. I cried. 

_"Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which they have been placed."_

Why then do you want me to make this work? He is killing me slowly. I've been too weak to walk. I am slowly finding strength (thanks to this forum, friends, family....my support system).


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

Honey said:


> OMG, hun, are you afraid you won't get anyone else?


Yes. Partly...that and partly because he's really all i've ever known. He's been my only 'serious' relationship. I do not know what else is there? I only want to be happy.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

NikiVicious said:


> Why then do you want me to make this work? He is killing me slowly. I've been too weak to walk. I am slowly finding strength (thanks to this forum, friends, family....my support system).


because no matter where you are or who you're with, you have the (dis)ability to fall into this trap. if you can free yourself, have you husband understand what apmosphere he has created, and end up with a greater love, you are the victor. i want you to be happy. you will only be happy if you understand where, and thereby who, you are.


----------



## justean (May 28, 2008)

you are such a pretty girl and its his insecurities. i promise. i learnt about that later. thats why he calls you names, puts you down. its all insecurities. my ex used to call me fat, ugly and my confidence went really to nothing. it took me 10 years to say im attractive, after he went. but you know what, i am attractive and i wont let n e one take that away from me ever again.
best thing the hitting stopped and the emotional abuse and i became me again.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

With your Oct 8th post I think you show his true colors. Why do you stay with someone leeching off you, is dangerous for you and your daughter, and has no loyalty to you at all. WHy?

draconis


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

niki---
you say:

>>>>"voi, you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum here"<<<<

no unfortunately, i am jason, trying. jason is NOT jason, trying. you are beth, minus the strength. no, that's not quite right. beth has years of my bs under her belt, and has learn through trial and error that this is hard. for some reason, she has stuck by (drac, you seem to know why) to see my improvements. hopefully they'll be enough. get jason on board to this self improvement thing and i think you have a fighting chance (no pun intended). i pray for you.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

draconis said:


> With your Oct 8th post I think you show his true colors. Why do you stay with someone leeching off you, is dangerous for you and your daughter, and has no loyalty to you at all. WHy?
> 
> draconis


I guess im so used to it...I feel like I just woke up. I think For about a year now, subconciously I've set it up to end it. Self-sabatoge (i just realized this a couple days ago) How messed up? Maybe a defense mechanism. I've let it go on too long. Didn't know what route to take before. I should have thought it through. But I didn't know exactly what I was dealing with. Now that I can be stable without him, and I have a safe place forme and my daughter to live...


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

It is a shame in this day and age people still feel trapped. I have read so much by you. I don't think you feel comfortable just ending it and that is why you have spent so much time dragging your feet. I think you need to do what I said that way you can know in your heart you did everything and no matter how it turns out you will have no regrets.

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

Sometimes the best thing to do isn't the easiest. It's not concrete we are divorcing. We will be seperating, he is finding another place to reside. I am ready for a new path. But I'm not acting too quickly on that. Time. Time. Time. He needs to make his own decisions. If I see that he is improved/self sufficient and treats me good. I still have it in my mind (based on his actions) that he would stab me in the back in a heartbeat. Then I have the option to divorce (again, will not make that choice yet). If we divorce, as it stands, it seems the easiest path from here. I can get started with moving on with my life. I feel I owe it to myself. On the other hand, I owe it to my marriage to try everything I can to save it.

For years he's shown me hate. I have just let him get away with it. Step on my heart.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

voivod said:


> niki---
> you say:
> 
> >>>>"voi, you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum here"<<<<
> ...



all I meant by that spectrum comment is, you have been made to leave due to broken trust. I too have made my husband leave due to broken trust/hearts. Not talking about character. 

I disagree, I think I have kindled up some strength. How else would I get by? I feel I'm being very strong. Jason has to get himself on board to self improvement this time. I am not holding his hand anymore.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

niki---
you sais:

>>>>"I am not holding his hand anymore."<<<<<

you know what. that's perfect. that's exactly what he needs to grow from this. i pray to God he get's it right this time.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

NikiVicious said:


> I am not holding his hand anymore.


Stick to your guns on this. You will end up a winner no matter how it turns out. He needs to show you over the long term he really does love you, putting you and your child(ren) first, before himself.

If he grows than you will have your marriage and a better husband/father. If not at least you walk away stronger and not willing to fall into that trap again, plus you know you gave it your all.

draconis


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

niki,
fact is, drac is right. he does need to be stronger for you two to survive. and i don't question your strength. i read you loud and clear. you're a tuffy, and coming from me, that's a compliment. i love strong women. beth is one too.

i wish you the very best, i mean it. no matter how this turns out, please keep us in the loop, okay?


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

Well I will definately try to keep you updated. His dad came into town and wanted to have a 1 on 1 with me. I told him how I felt. He's been married to his wife for 25 years. He boldly told me


> 'my son is not a violent man'


 and I boldly told him


> 'he absolutely is too!'


. I love jason but, (see there is a BUT), he has hurt me long enough and I've worked with him and tried my damndest!! My final try is doing just what drac said. He has to tackle this one on his own. (I told my father in law all that too! He tried to minimize my feelings toward the violence and him not taking responsibility for harsh things said. I boldly said


> don't minimize what I've been through


. lol. wow I've never talked like that to him but I think he gets the big picture. I even brought up what his other son said on the phone


> 'we could make her look legally insane to gain custody of the child.'


 He of course defended his oldest son saying,


> he feels he's doing the right thing, seeing his younger brother so hurt by you.


 I didn't know what to say. I just stared him in the eye. what do you say to that? ME HURT HIM? ME? of course its hard for me to leave him because I dont want to see him hurt. He said he doesn't want to see me leave his son. He says I saved his life since he was institutionalized. 

Thank you for your kind wishes and prayers. I need them.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

niki...you are in my prayers...and several others' from what i';ve seen...what the hell IS IT with that family??? do they not HEAR YOU???? what if you had thier son ARRESTED? would dear old dad get it then, or would he continue to bu77$#!t himself...they're a mess...you've told them all they need to hear...don't tell them another word...don't let them make you think your crazy...now, it's between jason and his God...if he f's up again...it's off to jail he goes. if dear old dad won't step in and kick his a$$, well...he's got what's coming to him...


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

You know when my wife and I first got together her and my dad got into it. When he came to me to mediate I back her up. After that he had much more respect for her because she stood up to him. I think of all the women me and my brother have ever dated/marriied she is the only one that my parents respect.

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

voivod said:


> niki...you are in my prayers...and several others' from what i';ve seen...what the hell IS IT with that family??? do they not HEAR YOU???? what if you had thier son ARRESTED? would dear old dad get it then, or would he continue to bu77$#!t himself...they're a mess...you've told them all they need to hear...don't tell them another word...don't let them make you think your crazy...now, it's between jason and his God...if he f's up again...it's off to jail he goes. if dear old dad won't step in and kick his a$$, well...he's got what's coming to him...



You are right. I havent looked at it like that before. But yes, they back each other up even if they've done wrong. I think in order to be real...you gotta learn how to give some tough love. all they want me to do is SUBMIT to my husband like before. He wants to see me ignore it and put up with it like i've been. 

If anyone knows how hard I worked when we lived in FL, his dad does!!! I think deep down he knows I've been good to his son. He may or may not realize what jason's part in this is. 

Me and jason fight when we talk about serious issues or goals or hopes. We get along when we talk about unimportant things like dinner, funny things the kiddo does, and general casual conversation. 

I am trying like hell to curb my resentment toward him. But it is there. maybe that will change when he moves out. He found a place to live, his dad had to pay for it because he didn't have enough money. he signed a year lease. I wonder why? 

The marriage counselor told us that we will have to do individual counselling before we continue with couples counselling. WHY? Any thoughts?


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

okay, i'm gonna take this piece by piece...based on the little tiny bit i know so far...hop ya don't mind....



NikiVicious said:


> You are right. I havent looked at it like that before. But yes, they back each other up even if they've done wrong. I think in order to be real...you gotta learn how to give some tough love. all they want me to do is SUBMIT to my husband like before.<<<<THIS MAY BE A CULTURAL THING. I DON'T KNOW HIS BACKGROUND, BUT...>>>> He wants to see me ignore it and put up with it like i've been.
> 
> If anyone knows how hard I worked when we lived in FL, his dad does!!! I think deep down he knows I've been good to his son. He may or may not realize what jason's part in this is.
> 
> ...


btw, sorry for all caps, just wanted my comments to stand apart from your text.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Here is my take. As a landlord for ten years ALL my leases were for a year, nothing more and nothing less. So that might not be as big of an issue for him, however it is hard to tell if he tried for a lesser amount of time like 3-6 months. 

Maybe the fact he needed help to get in might prove your point too.

Serious issues need to be talked about but, there needs to be ground work on the communications line first. Every conversation without yelling is helpful. However, you need to be able to talk about the important stuff too. Hopefully it is a start. Either way you have a child together and you will need to communicate with Jason for some time.

Because it is easier to bring things up without the other person there. It is easier to take responcibility when you don't feel backed into a corner. You need to have that feeling of self before you can be a part of a team.

draconis


----------



## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

justean said:


> my first husband was abusive in physical and emotional. to be honest over time, it really didnt improve. even the girl he left me for, well for fact i know she has had emotional and physical abuse far more than i ever had of him.
> i dont think you deserve it. well i never n e way.


Aw, sorry to hear this, hun.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

Well, its been a while since I logged in. I've done alot of soul searching. I don't feel confused about my decision anymore. Its alot less complicated. My husband still desperately wants me back but I am pretty content with my decision to leave, even if he does change. He's made countless threats by hiring lawyers, and making this as difficult and ugly as possible. His sister in law and brother have threatened me via voicemail and texting (I do not answer or reply to their calls). 

Sunday I had a long talk with my husband at his appartment. it was very intense. I talked about the threats by him and threats by his family. I finally got him to see that if we split it does not have to be ugly. He has agreed to not let this get worse than it is. Our daughter is with him half the week and me half the week. However, I am not going to file for divorce until January. I felt I should give this seperation some more time. Whatever will be will be.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I am glad that you are finally feeling grounded, I hope and pray that things will work for the best. Maybe your husband will see that he has a chance to be a super dad still.

draconis


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

threats? threats??? desparate. does he understand how that can jeopardize any custodial rights he may have???

btw, it's nice to see your face back on the forums. some of us were a little concerned for you. welcome back, and good luck.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

niki,

If I were you, I'd keep a record of all threats...emails, phone calls, etc. especially if you have them in writing or voice messages...Even if you don't, keep a log of dates/times and what is being said. This will help you in the event you begin divorce proceedings. I know you don't want it to get ugly, but there's a lot of ugliness surrounding him right now so watch out for yourself.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

swedish said:


> niki,
> 
> If I were you, I'd keep a record of all threats...emails, phone calls, etc. especially if you have them in writing or voice messages...Even if you don't, keep a log of dates/times and what is being said. This will help you in the event you begin divorce proceedings. I know you don't want it to get ugly, but there's a lot of ugliness surrounding him right now so watch out for yourself.



:iagree:

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

thanks for the tips on documenting the threats. I took your advice and filed a police report in case anything is ever acted on. I also saved the threatening voicemail and texts.

Help me with this:
All of the friends and family that I talk to still love Jason! They ask how he is. When I vent about him I don't try to put him down or make him less of a person. I just talk about my feelings on the subject. 

However, I noticed ALL of jasons family and some of our old friends (there are those few friends that are non biased and supportive of both)(one friend I've known since I was 14 longer than I've known Jason is very upset with me and hasn't bothered calling me to see how I am or hear my version) are all upset with me. Calling me backstabber and saying hurtful things, giving me the cold shoulder. Is he bashing me? I realize he isnt wanting to admit some of the things he's done to me, but he's basically slamming me behind my back. He refuses to tell me his issues with me in person. I told him it is cowardly that he can't say what he wants to my face but can bash me behind my back. I expect at least for him to be a friend/be real with me. GeeZ! His reasons for not wanting to say anything to my face is that I will tell him my opinions and he doesn't want to hear what I have to say. (Probably cuz I'm bluntly honest and mostly right?)


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

NikiVicious said:


> Help me with this:
> All of the friends and family that I talk to still love Jason! They ask how he is. When I vent about him I don't try to put him down or make him less of a person. I just talk about my feelings on the subject.
> 
> However, I noticed ALL of jasons family and some of our old friends (there are those few friends that are non biased and supportive of both)(one friend I've known since I was 14 longer than I've known Jason is very upset with me and hasn't bothered calling me to see how I am or hear my version) are all upset with me. Calling me backstabber and saying hurtful things, giving me the cold shoulder. Is he bashing me? I realize he isnt wanting to admit some of the things he's done to me, but he's basically slamming me behind my back. He refuses to tell me his issues with me in person. I told him it is cowardly that he can't say what he wants to my face but can bash me behind my back. I expect at least for him to be a friend/be real with me. GeeZ! His reasons for not wanting to say anything to my face is that I will tell him my opinions and he doesn't want to hear what I have to say. (Probably cuz I'm bluntly honest and mostly right?)


to this point you have taken the high road. to do anything different would be out of character as i see it.

screw what his friends say! that doesn't change you. if he's bashing you behind your back, isn't that kinda his character? let him be him. people will figure him out.

he had his chances to tell you "to your face."


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I hope his current actions spell volumes for you. Remember that if he asks to get back with you and when you go to court because he is going to do everything slimy to you in court he can to make you look unfit and hurt you so he feels vindicated.

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

Ok, yes it does speak volumes to me!!! I am just shocked and hurt. My whole intention with leaving is so I can stop feeling this negativity by him.

Last night I was out with my friend heather playing pool. He called me repeatedly. From 12am to 4am. Saying that when he calls I always hang up. Its usually not the case unless he is saying hurtful things. Unless he is harassing me. He was saying things like 'you make me sick' 'thinking of you makes me want to vomit' 'youre stupid and confused, which is right where I want you'. Ouch!! He also said that he wants me to sign off on the business (S-corp) we started. I'm totally willing. I don't want any ties to him. But we will share custody of our daughter. 

Finally I put him on speaker so others can hear him. He said I was in HIS scene of friends and I have no right in HIS scene of friends. Although he heather in the summer, and her sister and her boyfriend once. What is he trying to do? I almost refuse to believe that he is trying to hurt me. But what else am I left to gather. I broke his heart. I just can't take this negativity any longer. I cried when he said I make him sick and I'm stupid. Thats another one of his ways of hurting me. I did get my feelings hurt but why can't it be different? i've tried explaining that we need to be friends for our daughters sake. He is taking this to a whole different level than it needs to be.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Personally, I wouldn't sign off on anything until the court date. He is obviously controlling and now that he doesn't control you he wants to act badly to destroy your self esteem. This is another form of control. It is also verbal abuse. The more he can get to you the more he feels like he is winning and he thinks either you will break, or come crawling back to him no matter how he treats you.

draconis


----------



## Adventure Girl (Nov 16, 2008)

Hate to say it, but for your safety and the safety of your little girl, you need to leave. Yes, you will be able to remain hopeful for the rest of your life that *someday* he will change, but he won't. It'd be like trying to turn an elephant into a little kitty cat. Yeah, right. Ain't gonna happen! That's just the sad truth of it.

For your sake, I hope you can be strong and let him go. You deserve better for yourself and for your daughter.

That's my 2 cents.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Adventure Girl said:


> Hate to say it, but for your safety and the safety of your little girl, you need to leave. Yes, you will be able to remain hopeful for the rest of your life that *someday* he will change, but he won't. It'd be like trying to turn an elephant into a little kitty cat. Yeah, right. Ain't gonna happen! That's just the sad truth of it.
> 
> For your sake, I hope you can be strong and let him go. You deserve better for yourself and for your daughter.
> 
> That's my 2 cents.


maybe "he won't" change, but people do. even the most heinous people do change. given the proper set of consequences. stern consequences. my hope has always been for jason to "man up" and make a change for the better. the signs aren't that good that he will. sorry.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Niki,

The reason he is still in good graces with your family and friends is because you are a loving person and care about your daughter and her father and want to do what's best for them. 

He on the other hand, is scrambling. When you were together, he knew what to say/do to keep you on edge and now he knows he's losing that control so the hurtful things he's saying are a desparate attempt to play with your self-esteem hoping you will believe what he says, realize he's the best you can do and eventually take him back. What he is not doing is stepping up to be a better man, a better husband and father so I hope you take this as reinforcement that you are making the right decision. 

It sucks that his family/friends are taking sides and he may not be outwardly bashing you but at minimum he is playing the victim to them and they are feeling sorry for him. I have been in that spot with my ex where his family and friends took his side whereas mine still tried to remain in contact (which I encouraged since they knew him for years) and 10 years later, he had fallen out with most of the friends (who now send me Christmas cards!) and even his family came around quickly (probably because he remarried 2 months after our divorce & could no longer play victim)

As much as it bothers you, don't let that get in the way of the choices you need to make. Keep your focus on doing what's best for you and your daughter & stick to your guns about your expectations of Jason. If you give in to any of this you will end up in a worse place than before because you'll be setting the bar lower instead of higher.


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

Hey swedish,

you really put it into perspective. Playing the victim, absolutely! His family and friends encourage it. 

I have absolutely made the decision to leave. I am very content in not going back. He moved out in october. I am already much more grounded and positive than before when he was living with me. I will always love him and wish the best for him. I am NOT in love with him. he said its a choice to not be in love. I told him those are feelings I cannot just control like a lightswitch. The actions in the past 3 months have ABSOLUTELY shown me what I based my decision to leave on. I've been drivin to the breaking point. 

I told him to google 'falling out of love'. So he could understand (from someone other than me) what it means emotionally. 

2 days later he tells me " 'google commitment'. your falling out of love crap is all non sense, its a choice Niki"

My sister laughed when I told her what he said about that and she said tell him to google "deal breaker" (i havent, as I do not want to start a fight or fuel the fire). I merely want him to get the point and stop attacking me.


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

As shameful as what it is, I doubt he is going to see te light anytime soon. I do believe love in many instances is a matter of choice but th choice is what is best for you. It is his choice to be a good guy, to step up, to be a friend, partner and father. It was his choice to hve treated you the way he should have instead of the controlling and manipulaive way he has been. So he throwing choice in your face is not being truthful.

I am glad you have been rebuilding your self esteem, that is important for your long term health.

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

whenever something comes up. I just have to vent about it. Get an outsiders perspective. 

It's been always there for 10 years. Now nothing! I am so lonely though. I miss cuddling and kissing and all that  

I know that me and Jason will not work, based on recent events. is it absolutely wrong of me if I want that from someone else? Or just illegal?


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I think it is neither illegal nor wrong to want to be loved, to feel the closeness of a partner and companion. I would however caution you about haste as hard as it is. Take your time, get a divorce, find what you need for your child, and what you want in the next guy. Never settle, you deserve the best. Learn what you can do to make the next relationship better.

Feel free to vent here when need be. I know it is hard without an outlet, we are always here.

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

draconis said:


> I would however caution you about haste as hard as it is.
> draconis


what do you mean caution about haste? Do you mean haste from my husband? As soon as I get some extra cash, Im filing. I want to move on with my life. I am impatient iknow. 

I don't want to jump into ANYTHING serious. At this point i don't even know if i will ever marry again! lol. 

Im just talking about someone to watch movies with, eat dinner with and spoon me. lmao!


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

what do you mean caution about haste?


----------



## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

NikiVicious said:


> what do you mean caution about haste?


You nailed it above, about trying to fill the gap and settling for anything to do it. But it sounds like you have your wits about you and know better. I wish more people understood that you can't jump from one relationship to another without resolving the issues of the first.


Like I said



> Take your time, get a divorce, find what you need for your child, and what you want in the next guy. Never settle, you deserve the best. Learn what you can do to make the next relationship better.


My best wishes to you.

draconis


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

omg. Its been a while since I posted. I've just been trying to disconnect myself from all the hate, hurt, pain, etc. please allow my rant again!! I have to get it out out out!!!!!!!!!! (sry for the long post)

So a few members of my family have been upset with me. It seems like everywhere I turn I'm having to defend and explain one thing or another. Basically my sister and grandma have believed that when I have my days with my daughter I leave my grandma to babysit her so I can go out and party! this is untrue and i've never done that. I have now explained to both of them and they understand it's Jason telling them this! Not only did my sister and grandma hear that, but my BOSS! he told me in an IM that I pawn my daughter off to go party. so that is the going latest rumor. 

I went to pick my daughter up on Sunday. Jason was SUPER nice and talking really creepy and invited me in for soup and coffee. (This was after the argumentive phone conversation when I confronted him about the rumor). So I agreed to have soup. As I sat down he said you know nicole, you are the most "selfish hateful person ever. you f***ed me over. and Your family loves me and I love them more then you ever will. " he went on "you are so low to me. I feel sorry for the next man in your life because you are just going to **** him over in 8 years!!!" "I will never want you." OUCH OUCH OUCH!!!! but since I know he's doing it to hurt. I am really trying hard to not let it hurt. 

I replied. "This is a perfect example of why I left you and why we cannot work. I am not here and never was here to hurt you!" I also said "I hope your next relationship is all you ever wanted. I hope she treats you good. I hope that if she treats you like ****, you have enough self respect to walk away". He accused me of being unloyal because I walked away. he said he didn't care if i beat him put him down with words, or hurt him in anyway, that he would NEVER leave. I replied 'why would you want to be with someone that did that to you!?! then i left crying, and brought my daughter back home. 

two days later I called to get admin access to an email account that he has control of. I also mentioned the harsh things he said on sunday. I said I think you are going through a resentment stage. I went through that. I really hated all about him for a while. I tried to relate it. I told him it makes me not want to know him anymore. he said 'you're a trip'. Then said, I want you to know that I still want you to have partial weeks with our daughter no matter what the papers say! I agreed. He went on to say that more than likely she will live with him because I recieve SSI. and he has a stable home. I paused .......i asked....'"you filed for custody?" and he said "yes i had to...and divorce based on abandonment" and i started crying. and i said i have got to go and hung up. he has tried and tried to hurt me. and finally he is trying to take my child. my baby. and I am crying as i write this. i have been so close to her. her main caregiver. I nursed her, i gave birth to her. she is jasons baby too. but i am more stable minded and can provide stability. he is wearing me down. he said he cannot withdraw his case. his father (financial backer) wont let him. if he loves her, he should think about how hard she will take this. he has hurt her. said awful things....'everything would be fine if it wasnt for this ****in kid!' and got real close to her face yelling and put his hand up by her face. one day when he was mad at me. *and that, that, was the straw that broke the camels back. i decided to leave him 5 days later(back in september). when he never apologized or admitted wrong doing. *how come he is making this so painful. 

we had a previous agreement to meet at starbucks with a no-fault divorce kit and a shared custody form. we were going to fill it out together. because I didnt want this to be messy. But I talked to a lawyer after i found out he had one and has been plotting against me legally and turning those i love against me. She said because jason has a lawyer and he wants to use my SSDI against me they can squirrel it up badly.....unless I have a lawyer representing me I may lose my daughter. I told her I have an 18 page letter of him confessing many incidents of abuse. he admits using too many drugs and alcohol. and them being a reason for his temper. he admitted the coffee pot incident, the freeway incident, etc. he also has a felony for wirefraud and a pending drug charge in Yuma, AZ. so i guess I have to hire the lawyer and do this the stressful way. 

he also fowarded all my mail to his new house. and said 'this is was and always will be your home!!!" I said 'i never have lived here!!" when I saw my phone bill and bank statement opened on his desk (we've had seperate accounts) I realized that he was trying to pry to get info of where I am spending money. I filed a police report today on saying that he illegally fowarded my mail. 

all i want is out. 

i also found out he has had people i've known and trusted for years spying on me. relaying information. my boss (i quit btw) included. my sister now realizes what he is doing. this is like a war,....like chess. It is all games i dont want to play


----------



## NikiVicious (Oct 2, 2008)

what happened to all the support/advice?!?!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Niki,

I'm sorry to hear things have gone south since your last post. Well, I guess it's good that you know how this is going to roll now and yes, you will need legal counsel. Make sure all you have documented is in a safe place...put copies in a safe-deposit box or with your attorney as this will likely be critical if he plans to fight for custody. Get the address changed to your own on your bills.

He has shown that the friendly conversations you have where you believe he is willing to compromise cannot be trusted. Lay low...do your best to focus on work and caring for your daughter so he doesn't have anything to back up his claims.


----------

