# Lost



## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Married 16+ years 3 kids. 3.5 years ago was an idiot and had affair with ex gf. Admitted I was wrong, did counseling, etc. Thought everything was OK. Last week she tells me she is struggling to get over my affair, is trying to but can't garentee won't get a div. After so long I thought we were OK, so now I feel like I was cheated on. I know I caused the problem in the first place. Am I supposed to sit and do nothing and watch my marriage fall apart after 3.5 years ?


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Will she go to marriage counseling?

Did you really work it out -or do the ever-popular rugsweep?


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## Feelingbad12 (Jan 6, 2016)

No. Offer to do whatever it takes to save your marriage. Ask her what she needs you to do and do it. Counseling or whatever.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Homer j said:


> After so long I thought we were OK, so now *I feel like I was cheated on*.


I hope you haven't said this nonsense to your wife. If you haven't ever been cheated on you have no idea.

Most importantly: THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU



> Am I supposed to sit and do nothing and watch my marriage fall apart after 3.5 years ?


If she's struggling, you help her.

She says she's trying (which is good news) Has she mentioned what she's struggling with? 

Why not go back to counselling?

What books have you read?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

She has and is going again. She said she tried to get past for kids, but its resurfaced like it just happened. I'm seeing our counselor in a few days too to ask what can I do. I know if I say screw it we will be done which isn't what I want. She thinks this is her issue to deal with and I've told her it's not as it affects all of the family. I think all I can do is be supportive but it doesn't seem like that's enough.


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## Feelingbad12 (Jan 6, 2016)

Look all you can do is whatever she needs you to do. Counseling? You schedule it. Books? You buy them and read them. You take the reins in helping mend something you did.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

It's likely a flashback, triggered by something, and it's totally normal. It happens.

It may happen forever. And you will need to help her through it, forever, if that's the case.

Are you in it forever? It's her schedule, not yours.

If you're in it, talk about it, be as open and transparent and remorseful and accountible as it sounds like you were at the beginning. Because for her -- emotionally -- she's back there right now. So you go back there, too, and be there for her.

They will likely lessen the more that time passes. Show her you love her. Show her you will spend your life proving it.

And find out what triggered her.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I don't think I've told her I feel like I was cheated on. I've read torn asunder and another one written by Gary and Monica something. It's there personal story. I should say when I feel like I was cheated on its because this came out of nowhere. I told her I thought when we were in counseling last we agreed to talk before things got bad, etc. I in no means want to be cheated on. I have panic attacks on occasion thinking that's what's going on as it is.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I tell her I love her even though she doesn't say it back. I'm trying everything I can think of. We watched fireproof the other night and I told her I wasn't leaving her. We have cried a little together, but its like she doesn't want to break down and let it out. That's what hurts is seeing her in pain, knowing she's not the happy loving person she really is, and that I did it and can't fix it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Homer j said:


> I don't think I've told her I feel like I was cheated on. I've read torn asunder and another one written by Gary and Monica something. It's there personal story. I should say when I feel like I was cheated on its because this came out of nowhere. I told her I thought when we were in counseling last we agreed to talk before things got bad, etc. I in no means want to be cheated on. I have panic attacks on occasion thinking that's what's going on as it is.


Don't tell her you feel like you've been cheated on, she may think it's invalidating what you did to her, or making it even somehow.

Sit with her, listen to her, accept her emotions.

You're going to have to buck up little camper, and put your anxiety aside for now. For her.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I think I'm putting my feelings aside when I'm with her. Problem is she won't talk about it. She is seeing counselor tonight so hoping we can talk when she gets home. The only thing I've told her is it hurts seeing her hurt.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks to all that commented. I'm not a social butterfly by any means so I don't have ppl to talk with about this. It sounds like I'm on the right track, just gotta keep her from giving up. Thanks again


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

marduk said:


> *It's likely a flashback, triggered by something, and it's totally normal. It happens.*
> 
> It may happen forever. And you will need to help her through it, forever, if that's the case.
> 
> ...


That is the most likely scenario. Something triggered her. 

It's true -that all you can really do is be there for her. This is going to be on her schedule...and the reality is...she might never get over it. Have you considered that? 

Have you considered that if she does want to divorce...it's not going to be her fault right? There is no timeline that exists that details how fast or how slow she should get over the betrayal. 

Listen to her. Pay attention to what she does/says/how she does things...KNOW HER. Know her as well as you know yourself. By simply learning to pay attention to her...you can get to the point where you could predict a trigger...maybe even eliminate it before it happens. 

Good Luck


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

We've talked about a trigger, she said she can't put her finger on it. Yes I know there is no timetable. I've told her if I have to sleep on couch and no sex for ???? I'm willing to do it to get her better


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Read it. 

It's what your wife is probably going through. Maybe it'll give you some insight on what you've brought to your marriage.

Things that every wayward spouse needs to know - LoveShack.org Community Forums


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks, that helps. I've already read things like it but there are some new things there.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

How long was your Affair ? 

Are you still in contact with ex-gf ?

You know you hurt your wife my friend. She will never forget it,no matter what you try or do,but you can try and be a best husband and father you could from now on.

Having an Affair with a ex-gf. is even worse in my opinion. Now she thinks your ex-gf was always on your mind,your entire marriage.

Talk with her,go out with your wife. Dont sit around house and watch football or news. 
Help her around house and kids. You know there is nothing bad if you help her wash the dishes. You are not going to lose your title of a "man" doing it.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

It was over 3.5 years ago. She started working the same place I did. That's when it got physical. I no longer work there and haven't spoken or seen her in 1.5 years. The physical part lasted about 4 months. The problem is my wife read my emails. It's not that I told her what happened, she read it. That's what she can't let go of. I told her at the time to not read them, but didn't fight her as I didn't want to appear I was hiding anything. Now she agrees she shouldn't have read them as the words are etched in her mind.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Oh S***!!! You let her read your emails to your ex gf you cheated with????????

You are toast. It is etched in her mind. 

I truly wish somebody could help you, but you may lose her.

The positive: she is still with you after all this. I think all you can do is show her you love her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It's easy to decide to R but living it is usually tough. The ups-and-downs and pain can last for many years -- not just a few. Work on yourself to become a better person and show her (not just tell her) every minute of every day how grateful you are that she gave you another chance. But even if you do everything right, some simply can't recover from betrayal on that scale so be prepared that your R may not work.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Well it doesn't sound like the counselor really did a lot. Basically it's something she has to figure out how to live with. So I ask her what do we do now. That's when she started talking about looking out for kids and if things don't change she is taking kids back to her family out of state. So I said, if div takes 6 months to finalize we have like a month to see some change? She said I don't know (she didn't do the math) 8 (Aug) - 6 = 2 (Feb). We talked and cried together for about an hour. She said she is trying. She has forgiven me personally, its the betrayal itself she can't let go of. If I gave a crap about anything I'd be getting a lawyer tomorrow and beating her to the filing, but I know if I do that we are done. All I can do is pray change starts happening so she doesn't file. I feel once she files her attention is going to turn to making arrangements for after its finalized and she won't work on us anymore. Feeling very weak and sick.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Somehow gotta make it thru work 2 more days so I can see counselor. Hopefully he has something more than yup you can only sit and watch.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

Homer j said:


> Well it doesn't sound like the counselor really did a lot. Basically it's something she has to figure out how to live with. So I ask her what do we do now. That's when she started talking about looking out for kids and if things don't change she is taking kids back to her family out of state. So I said, if div takes 6 months to finalize we have like a month to see some change? She said I don't know (she didn't do the math) 8 (Aug) - 6 = 2 (Feb). We talked and cried together for about an hour. She said she is trying. She has forgiven me personally, its the betrayal itself she can't let go of. If I gave a crap about anything I'd be getting a lawyer tomorrow and beating her to the filing, but I know if I do that we are done. All I can do is pray change starts happening so she doesn't file. I feel once she files her attention is going to turn to making arrangements for after its finalized and she won't work on us anymore. Feeling very weak and sick.


I don't want to beat up on you, but your feelings seem more inward focused than spouse focused. 

Your comments about you being cheated on, and not going to a lawyer because "I know if I do that we are done" are not what I would hope from my wayward spouse.

Your expectations for a "recover by:" date for your wife are not likely to be helpful. Pressuring her for that is not going to be appreciated either.

Divorce does not have to end your relationship, and may well be the thing your spouse actually needs to preserve her sense of self as a worthy human being.

If your wife seeks a divorce -provided your feelings of love for her are genuine- be supportive, facilitative, generous and loving.

If your wife loves you there will be plenty of chances for a re-approachment and reconciliation after the divorce.

If you then have to get married to her again, that is not too high a price to pay to atone for your behavior.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by Linda J. MacDonald


Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by Linda J. MacDonald


Good book. Buy two copies and read it w/ your wife.


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

Maybe you should look into divorce. 

If I say I love you to my husband and he doesn't say it back, he might as well say I don't love you.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

A counselor or therapist isn't going to fix this. You're going to have to figure out a way to reconnect with her. Sitting around waiting for her to get over it or deal with it will get you divorced.
It's already started down that path. 

Do you set up date nights to take her out? Maybe once a week. Nothing special, maybe a movie something to eat? 

Have some fun put some joy back in her life. She needs you to show her why she should stay.

Your affair was a huge betrayal. You'll have to reassure her this should have never happened and you are willing to do anything to fix this. This was 100% all on you. 

This is mainly up to you. Better put some effort into this quick.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Homer,

If this does go to divorce your future will be something like this.

Your wife will find someone else to replace you. Bank on it.

He will then take part in helping to raise your kids as he will be with them more than you.

You will be on the outside looking in. 

My point is this if I were you I'd be moving heaven and earth to help her feel safe and wanted.
She's still there right now which means there is a chance to fix this but time is getting short.

You need to get moving and figure it out. No one is coming to help. You're going to have to do it. You put your family in jeopardy now you're going to have to fix this. Date her again, win her back, you did it before you married her. Let her see the better man you can become.

Waiting on a damn counselor or therapist is Bullsh!t. Unless you want the alternative.

I hope you stand up and do the right thing.

Good luck


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Well it doesn't sound like the counselor really did a lot. Basically it's something she has to figure out how to live with. So I ask her what do we do now.


See what waiting around for someone else to fix your problems has gotten you?

You don't ask her what to do now!!!! you show her!!!! Your words have no meaning it's your actions that need to speak to her.

Again show her why she married you in the first place. 

Can you see what's needed here?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Homer j said:


> Married 16+ years 3 kids. 3.5 years ago was an idiot and had affair with ex gf. Admitted I was wrong, did counseling, etc. Thought everything was OK. Last week she tells me she is struggling to get over my affair, is trying to but can't garentee won't get a div. After so long I thought we were OK, so now I feel like I was cheated on. I know I caused the problem in the first place. Am I supposed to sit and do nothing and watch my marriage fall apart after 3.5 years ?


Firstly what you did was not 'idiotic' as you put it. Even now you are writing to minimise what you have done. Idiotic is forgetting to put the petrol cap on or lock the door at night, what you did was premeditated, selfish and noone was standing holding a gun to your head, so cut that crap and way of thinking.

It does not matter whether it was yesterday or 15 years ago, the damage you have caused is catastrophic to your marriage and if after 3.5 years you still have not got that, then you are doomed and it is small wonder your wife is considering divorce. My husband cheated on me 17 years ago, we rug swept but I will never forget it and occassionally it rears its ugly head to know that maybe he hasn't loved me as much as i loved him. (I suspect he cheated since but have no proof). To say that is has cracked the foundation of our marriage is putting it very mildly, we are still hanging on by a thread because I chose to stay primarily for the kids and because I loved him, now kids are gone I am not so sure. 

If you have minimised, rug swept which I bet you did, then you deserve what is coming to you.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thank you all again. I don't think I've rug swept anything. I owned up to what I did. Have apologized, still apologize today. I'm not waiting on the counselor, this all resurfaced 5 days ago and came out of no where. A lot of the feelings I'm telling you are what I'm thinking, not what I'm telling her. With her mainly I'm sorry, I love you, etc. Trying hard to keep my feelings (I'm scared, lonely,etc.) To myself. I know if she wants to go I can't stop her and want her to be happy. Right now its the thoughts of coming home to no wife and kids that's filling my mind. I didn't set a time frame, she is the one that said if we do div it would be easier for kids if during summer, so they aren't changing schools in school year. I just did the math as I don't think she has yet.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Something has made her trigger. A trigger can make it feel like she just found out yesterday-all the hurt and sorrow-all the anger just like the first time she found out. Maybe she has been triggering all this time and suffering in silence and you didn't notice till she came down with the D 2x4. 

You both should be in MC and IC. You should read his needs her needs together. You may think you are doing everything you can but if you don't know what her needs are you can't really meet them can you? My H thought doing things for me and buying gifts was what every woman would want- I wanted his time and conversation. I thought he would appreciate my time and conversation but really he wanted the obvious (sex) and fun- the things I was NOT giving him.

Meeting her needs won't make the triggers go away but it will at least put you on a more constructive path and it will give you insight as to what you can both do to help prevent an A (hers or yours) from happening in the future.

You mentioned you wondered if she could be having an A or did I misread that? If you think that is a possibility what signs have you seen?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I don't think she has had an affair when I stop and focus. I think it's just panic trying to cope with how did go so bad when I thought we had made it thru. I have bought the books that were suggested, and downloaded another to read while they are being shipped. I agree with you that there have been things all along. She would make light jokes when infidelity would come up at church, things like that. It appears now that she was repressing this by the jokes hoping it would go away but it didn't. I'm an engineer so I live in black and white. This is color and I don't know how to handle it. If at the time we were in heavy counseling after dday I'm told that we are doing fine and don't need to go anymore I took that for what it was. Who am I to judge, he's the expert in this. Not making excuses, just telling you what I thought at the time. I'm going to do everything I can to make her as happy as I can. Ive told her she is my priority. She always should've been. I realize my mistakes and am going to fix them. I've found out I was holding things back for fear of getting hurt myself. I'm not going to do that anymore. It may be to little to late, but if this ends I'm going to know I gave everything I had. I've told her this, and she has said she has seen changes already. She doesn't know how to accept them though. I'm doing the love dare on her from fireproof too. Trying to use that as my day by day guide. Thank you all for your thoughts. Not sure if I've said this, but I have basically zero friends to talk with on this. I get up go to work and come home. Yes I know ppl, but I don't hang out anywhere. If I go somewhere we go together. Thanks for giving me a place to vent so I can regroup and get back to doing what I have to, to try and save us.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Homer

You need to read some of the post here at TAM. People can R from a betrayed marriage but... it never really goes away or is forgotten. In most cases the BS just learns to deal with it, but the Affair(s) are always still there, putting them to sleep every night and waking them every morn. 

Accept this.

When you decided to have an affair you forfeited you vows to your wife. She knows this. She can call it quits anytime, forever (no other reason needed). She knows this.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I have accepted it, but doesn't mean I want it to, or will just roll over. Her family lives out of state. In my hour commute to work this morning, I came to the realization that nothing is stopping me from moving back to her area if this goes bad. I'd rather do that and be able to see my kids than stay where I am. That has helped a little today. I'm reading more books at breaks, learning new things to try. The desperation from last night feels a little under control now. Believe me when I say I know what I did, what I gave up, etc. I'm doing my best to fix what I broke, but know its not mine to fix and will never be back to what it was.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She's not cheating. She's detaching, and probably has been for a long while. Once a woman decides to end it, she ends it. No looking back. 

The only option I see for you Homer is to beg her to go see a different counselor. I have a hard time understanding why a counselor would basically tell her to suck it up and deal with it. Fire this one and get a new one. That doesn't make sense.

And no....you do no have a right to feel like you were cheated. You fvcked another woman for a third of a year. You had your fun, got your rocks off and now you are having to deal with the fallout. Marriage after adultery is like a big oak tree that gets struck by lightening. It can live for years while rotting from the inside out and finally withering.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

Took me 5yrs to get over past cheating. I couldn't help my mind shut off and at random times or things that reminded me of incidents. I still haven't forgot BUT I do fully trust my husband now. He's aware if he breaks to the lowest of the low, that I'll be completely broken and we won't recover if it ever happened again.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks again. I was totally unaware until now that there could be relapses. I thought once we got past it, it was done. This is what we are going thru now. I'm hoping we can get through it. If we can I will definitely be on high alert for signs in the future so we can address in a timely manner.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Homer j said:


> Thanks again. I was totally unaware until now that there could be relapses. I thought once we got past it, it was done. This is what we are going thru now. I'm hoping we can get through it. If we can I will definitely be on high alert for signs in the future so we can address in a timely manner.


No, there can be relapses.

Been there and it is not a nice place to be.

However, do not keep secrets from her. Tell her all your feelings.

I think you owe her that much.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm telling her. Sometimes I fear I say to much. I realized it had been years since I'd told her how pretty she was. I knew, but found I hadn't told her. I told her I couldn't believe I'd stopped telling her that and how sorry I felt.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Homer

Don't think I'm trying to be harsh or inflict pain upon you, I'm not, but I'm going to be honest in what I see from your posts. All I can see is you being selfish, it's about how you feel, the bigger picture you need to see is obscured from your selfishness. Another problem you face is vulnerability, you didn't share your feelings, how do you expect her to accept and move forward without knowing your feelings? The last biggest problem is you are approaching as an engineer. If you continue this approach it's the fast track to divorce. 

These are the three biggest obstacles you currently face, and your approach has in my opinion been dismal. You haven't helped of supported her, and this is obvious in your posts. Let me show you what I mean. Your wife read the emails, she read words, words that were then followed by actions in that you had a physical affair. Now you use words with her, I'm sorry, I love you, and whatever else. What was your action? You posted you don't want to sit around and wait, so again, what ACTIONS are you showing? If you can show in the number of posts here for me to see this, why is it I see no actions in supporting her? Because you are sitting and waiting. 

What heavy lifting have you done? Do you recognize when she triggers? How have you helped her in the beginning? I get the impression you want this marriage, but only if it suits you. You haven't moved heaven and earth to keep her, and your affair actions have killed her. She may be too far gone, she sounds detached like bandit.45 said, because you detached by not being vulnerable. Marriage is many nuances coming together to make the most beautiful loving relationship, it's not work, it's you being you openly and transparent. You give all of yourself to your spouse, as they do to you. 

Where do you go from here? You need individual therapy, find out what's broken inside you. If you divorce then this will help in your next relationship. Reconciliation is difficult, not many people make it through, it doesn't sound like your wife is able to do this. Remember that she isn't making it through based upon what she feels from you. Not sharing your feelings has pushed her away, perhaps too far to recover from. 

What needs to be done is for you to commit all in to reconciliation. You need to expose yourself totally for your wife to see. You need to be the most vulnerable now more so then ever before. You need to support her during difficult moments and show you aren't leaving. You need to recognize triggers, such as when she uses humor to deflect the infidelity pain she feels at church. Your response should be more along the lines of, I know I hurt you, and using humor to deflect the pain won't help, we need to talk this through together until you feel safe. 

Have you ever asked her if she feels safe in her marriage with you? Not from physical harm, but are you showing her she is safe to be with you? How she discovered the affair is big on feeling safe. Did you trickle truth? Did you lie when confronted? This is very important to your recovery, it also helps posters help you to have the full story. Reading books is great, and their are many on this subject, but you need to study your wife, you need to see her hurt and respond effectively. If you honestly feel like you've been cheated on because of her difficulties, well, you are then more selfish then I think you can overcome. All through this thread I see you protecting you, not your wife, whom you've destroyed. 

In my case I am the betrayed soouse, I am also a man, and I sat on the brink of suicide. That's right, I tried to kill myself because my wife cheated. Have you even asked your wife if she felt that way? I was destroyed, devastated, hopeless, and in so much pain. Your wife probably felt this too, and it's a terrible place to be. 

I wish you the best and hope you can reconcile, but first you need to fix yourself. You can't fix anything until you find yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I suspected my wife had an affair many years ago. I was never able to prove it and she denied everything. But even now years latter, a certain song on the radio can hit me like an electrical shock and transport me right back to that time when I first suspected and start looking for evidence.

The triggers or relapses as you call them are less intense and less frequent as time passes - but the memories never really go away.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

In doing some thinking should I tell her about this site, that I'm asking advice etc.? Would that be viewed as hiding something if I don't?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Drifting...no I don't think you are being harsh. I haven't been sitting around waiting for things to happen. My affair ended 3.5 years ago. We went to counseling for 6 months I'm guessing after dday. She wanted to save the marriage when she found out. I called the OW with her there, told her it was over and I was working on my marriage. I told her everything she wanted to know. I have been truthful since that day. I'm trying to recall but I think my wife is the one that thought we were OK with ending counseling. The counselor agreed and we stopped going routinely. We went here and there when something came up with the kids, or us, but nothing like the initial visits. 
I thought I had been attentive to her needs. She is a touchy feely love language person so I made sure I held her hand, held her at night stuff like that. I didn't realize I had not given her 100% of myself. I don't think I ever had. The reason I think that is I don't recall her saying you used to do .... that you don't anymore. I'm working on myself now that the problem has come to light. I have told her I was selfish and it was wrong. I want her to be happy, she deserves it. Im just trying to make the most of my time to try and show her I can do it. Im sure my posts sound selfish as there is a lot of I's. I ask how she is doing, what can I do to help with errands, house things if I don't see anything obvious. I've asked how she is feeling, not just now but in the past. If I got anything it was I'm OK for now. She is the type of person that if you keep asking when you know something is wrong she gets mad, so I have to take it what she says.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I will ask on the feeling safe. She has said she has forgiven me personally, its the act itself. She knows I won't do it again and that I want to be with her. She knows I love her, and am sorry for what I did. I tell her I'm sorry, I love you with all that I am numerous times a day. I've told her I'm not quitting on us.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Homer

I am in reconciliation myself, I offered that gift to my wife. She has taken special care of that gift, as she has me. My wife's affair ended in January of 2011, my d-day was January 20, 2014. The levels of deception are a large part of committing back to the marriage. I now know what my wife is capable of, even though she says she will never cheat again. The level of trust is destroyed, both of you need to be vulnerable for trust to be earned. Only on the betrayed spouses end its much harder to trust. 

I would sit down with her, communicate effectively what each of you want. Work towards that goal. I can tell you I will never forget what my wife did, to me, to the kids, and for killing our marriage. Now we are starting all over to build a new marriage. Reconciliation is difficult with many pitfalls, but your wife has not accepted the affair. She needs to accept the affair or she can't move forward. This is very hard, I have accepted my wife's affair, but I had to accept in stages. I couldn't accept the affair as a whole. I have now but you need to break it down to accept. Your wife may have accepted some but not all, and she is struggling. This all happens on her time schedule. 

I'm not saying you sit around all the time, but maybe you need to do more heavy work. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks drifter. I appreciate the advice. I did ask her if she felt safe mentally and emotionally. She said she was drained. When I asked if she thought I'd cheat again she said no she didn't think I would.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Is she having issues with depression?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Please don't think I'm an idiot, but when you say heavy lifting, what does that mean? If its being there for her however she needs me I am. I'm willing to listen whenever she wants to talk. The problem is she doesn't like to talk about it. I've been starting conversation about trying to help her etc. I've been reading books on what I can do to help, etc. The problem I have with the books is most talk about right after dday, all the stuff you go thru emotionally etc. We did that 3.5 years ago. When I go thru the list of things like be open and honest, tell her everything she wants to know etc. We did all that. She knows why I cheated, and we both have made improvements to make sure everything was OK that caused the initial issue. Which BTW was me not telling her I felt unimportant, when she got busy with life. I thought I was telling her, but it wasn't clear. Now I say I'm feeling unimportant, and we spend some time together and are back on track. I know now her jokes where her way of saying she was hurting. She didn't realize that's what it was either until now. I'm willing to move mountains for her. I'm just not sure how to do it. She hates flowers, so stopping and getting a fresh flower for her is a no go. I don't have the money to buy things. She doesn't want me to hold her hand very much. I ask often though. I'm just not sure what to do. I tell her I love her when I leave home, and get/give hugs as much as I can. I tell her I'm sorry, and she knows I am.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Heavy lifting means taking the initiative. Be the leader in your own recovery and let her see you doing it. Actions are what she wants to see, supported by loving words and encouragement from you.

1) YOU should be in your own individual counseling. Even if she stopped wanting to go to MC, you should have continued working on yourself by showing her you were working on setting strong boundaries in your life and sticking to them. 

2) Total transparency of money spent each day, turning over your phone and computer passwords to her...

3) Being the best dad you can be to your kids and giving her a break from being a mom once in a while. 

4) Putting her needs first, before your own, and even being willing to let her go if that is what she needs. 

5) Taking her anger, absorbing it, acknowledging it and even inviting it. 

6) Answering the same questions over, and over, and over, and over, with honesty, a smile and a good attitude.

I hope you have been doing this from the beginning. And even then, even if you do all the right things, she is still under no obligation to stay with you. She can forgive you, but still decide that you are an unsafe bet and not worthy of any future investment.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks bandit. 2,3,5,&6 I know I've been doing. I feel like I have 4, but am going to redouble my efforts. 1 starts again tomorrow night. Like I've said I didn't know I had anything buried. Now that I know I'm going to take care of it. I know where its stemmed from, now to get rid of it. I've learned a lot today and last night. Thank you all so very much!!!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

But don't hold out hope. I'm being honest with you Homer. When a woman says she is ready to hang it up, it is only after she has done lots of soul searching and thinking about her prospects. Women do not just say that stuff at the spur of the moment, especially with dependent kids in the mix. Your BW has been thinking about this for a long time, which means that she has been emotionally detaching from you for quite a while now. 

I say you have maybe a 10% chance of saving this.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Understood. She hasn't filed yet that I know of so until that happens I have to believe we can do it.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

Homer j said:


> In doing some thinking should I tell her about this site, that I'm asking advice etc.? Would that be viewed as hiding something if I don't?


My husband is aware that I made an account on this site. I told him I felt safe because I didn't want to share certain things with family and or friends. It's a way for me to get insight and not have a personal connection. I don't think anything is wrong with sharing with your wife, you're trying to do whatever you can to fix your marriage including asking for help on a marriage forum.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty nb. That's what I thought too, but wanted to know what others thought. I've cut and pasted things so I can quick review them as I go.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

I would let her feel how she feels, still show her you are wanting to fix this and put a lot of effort into turning things around. She will have moments of anger, disgust and questions. What I wished my husband did was answer the questions early on.

I knew for years he cheated before he finally admitted it. By the time he admitted I had about 65% already healed. I was pissed he didn't just man up and answer honestly, the many times I told him I knew. The coming clean, seeing in his eyes he was truly sorry and wanted our family is what helped. The daily kisses and I love Yous, the making time for me to rekindle what was broken. I finally was capable of feeling he was really in this for us. What happened in the past is done but doesn't mean I will ever forget. If we argue and either of us speak below the belt, I shoot phrases (that I need to let go) like "Hey A!!h$!?, you've done enough damage".

It never goes away. There's always a tiny piece that worries if he were to ever put me through that again. I don't think I could handle that pain again. What also helped me, is knowing I don't NEED my husband. He's who Ive chosen, who I want to work in this marriage with. I needed to rebuild some self esteem and see it wasn't me, there was nothing wrong with me.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty nb!


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Homer

You need to be vulnerable, tell her your most private feelings and emotions. Open your heart to her, expose yourself completely, it's probably your only chance. When j say vulnerable, I mean you tell her things you've never told anyone, your hopes, fears, wants, and needs. Tell her how you want to grow old with her, tell her what you have envisioned for the future together. At the risk of sounding like an idiot, show her that warm underside of your belly. Be completely open, transparent, accountable, and most of all show her the sincerity of your words. This is what will make her feel safe. 

Many times you can ask and give words for the answer. Next time don't use words and show her. Buy her a card, text her that she is the only thing on your mind, show her with actions. Being vulnerable is so key to a relationship, it shows you for you, it shows your love with actions. Sorry, but I suck at explaining how to be vulnerable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks drift. I have done some of that, but will work on doing more often.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If your wife wants details then tell her. 

As I have said before I wanted NO details of my wife's affair. None. No details. Ever.

Had she given me details that would have broken me to be honest.

Just Knowing she had cheated on me was as much as I wanted. 

Don't make the mistake thst spewing your guilty secrets all over your betrayed spouse will make THEM feel as good as it makes YOU feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Have sent my wife a couple texts today saying I was thinking about her, I love you, etc. She didn't respond. I asked her something off topic and she answered, very short. I asked if she was OK, no headache, sorry stress or cold, stress, me or work, situation, does me saying things make it worse, think so cuz where I'm at isn't what your saying.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Said I'm going to make changes in my life just hoping for opportunity to show her, and that maybe from that she could love me again. She said she knows and is thankful but she's just not there. So my question is this...do I keep telling her I love you if its bothering her, or just do things to show it? I want and need to do something, just not sure what I can do and not make things worse.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

She has a conference out of state next week. It's actually 20min from where the rest of her family lives. I think Monday when I leave for work will be the last time I see her until the next Saturday night.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Do you think she might be seeing someone or thinking of seeing someone and is bringing up the affair as an excuse to end the marriage? It's odd that 3.5 years later she brings it up that she isn't sure she wants to continue with the marriage. I know a spouse never forgets when an affair happens in the marriage but a lot do forgive and decide to stay in the marriage. I hope for your families sake she stays in the marriage at least until your children are grown.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

When she first brought it up a week ago I asked if she had met someone, she said no. She has said she is trying to get thru the betrayal. Told me she had always told herself she would never put up with it herself. I believe she was telling the truth. It does seem though day by day the more I try to show her how much I love her the farther away she gets. Maybe that's just me being hypersensitive though. Bottom line is I miss my wife badly. I've told her this many times of late.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

This is just not going to go away one day and you'll never have to worry about her ever thinking about it again. She will perhaps never get over it and never stop thinking about it. You damaged her trust and she's fighting to get it back. You're actually damned lucky she didn't decide to leave right away, instead she's giving you a chance. Anything she needs to cope with what you did you better be more than willing to do for her.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Homer j said:


> When she first brought it up a week ago I asked if she had met someone, she said no. She has said she is trying to get thru the betrayal. Told me she had always told herself she would never put up with it herself. I believe she was telling the truth. It does seem though day by day the more I try to show her how much I love her the farther away she gets. Maybe that's just me being hypersensitive though. Bottom line is I miss my wife badly. I've told her this many times of late.


Yeah...she has detached brother. 

I'm sorry man but it is over. You just chasing her around is making it worse. Stop chasing her.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Maybe this will sounds stupid to you my friend but I have to say it.

Sometimes wives and husbands stay in marriage just because of the kids. 

They stay together until last child is 18 and then they fill.

I would hate if this is your scenario,but how old are your kids ?

Reading your posts you are doing right things,but your wife is somewhere else with her mind. You did try to become a better father and husband,but sometimes you have to just let them go.

This will always be in her mind but it is kinda odd she is not sure to stay married or not. Is she making any "new friends" ? Staying a lot on the phone,facebook and stuff like that ?


Stay strong.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Kids are in 8,6,4th grades. No nothing new like that. Her family is all out of state. She mentioned when this first happened that if we couldn't make it work she would be moving back there. With that in mind I have a hard time believing she is looking for a new guy. Like a new guy is just gonna pack up and move. She is spending more time with her girlfriends. I'm assuming to take a mental brake. When she leaves house or I leave house we give hugs, so I'm still hopeful deep down she wants to get thru this, just trying to figure out how. I'm doing my best to give her space, yet show her I love her and want her. I'm finding its a fine line to not smother which will push her away. Taking it one day at a time.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Homer j said:


> I have accepted it, but doesn't mean I want it to, or will just roll over. Her family lives out of state. In my hour commute to work this morning, I came to the realization that nothing is stopping me from moving back to her area if this goes bad. I'd rather do that and be able to see my kids than stay where I am. That has helped a little today. I'm reading more books at breaks, learning new things to try. The desperation from last night feels a little under control now. Believe me when I say I know what I did, what I gave up, etc. I'm doing my best to fix what I broke, but know its not mine to fix and will never be back to what it was.


Homer I am reading regret but not remorse Perhaps that's just my interpretation'

Is possible your BW feels the same way ? I would discuss this with her if you have not.

55


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Said I'm going to make changes in my life just hoping for opportunity to show her, and that maybe from that she could love me again. She said she knows and is thankful but she's just not there. So my question is this...do I keep telling her I love you if its bothering her, or just do things to show it? I want and need to do something, just not sure what I can do and not make things worse.


Show her. Badgering her at this point will probably just be irritating.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I've never been so remorseful in my life. I tell her I'm sorry if we discuss it. I've cried, she's cried. She tells me she knows im sorry and wish i could take her pain away if i could. Which is such a rediculous understatement. If i had to take an infinte amout of pain to keep her from feeling any for a moment id do it without a aecond thought. She is my one and only. I know i went to fantasy land and to say that was wrong is also an understatement. I've told her I know I've hurt her in the worst possible way. I'm doing my best to be there, and yet not be smothering.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Homer j said:


> I've never been so remorseful in my life. I tell her I'm sorry if we discuss it. I've cried, she's cried. She tells me she knows im sorry and wish i could take her pain away if i could. Which is such a rediculous understatement. If i had to take an infinte amout of pain to keep her from feeling any for a moment id do it without a aecond thought. She is my one and only. I know i went to fantasy land and to say that was wrong is also an understatement. I've told her I know I've hurt her in the worst possible way. I'm doing my best to be there, and yet not be smothering.


My guess is you are not expressing it in a way she is not hearing clearly.

55


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ok, 2 nights OK wife goes upstairs to take a bath, no biggie. I've been waiting weeks to get my sons basketball schedule so we know when weekend games are. It finally comes in. So I go upstairs to review it with her. I can hear her on phone talking to someone and exhaust fan is on. I didn't give it a second thought. Tried opening door and its locked. This door doesn't have a stop on the open side and has push button lock so sometimes it gets locked accidentally, no biggie. Usually she shuts door but not locked if I recall. So I try unlocking, she asks who it is, me, I got schedule and wanted to show it to you, OK we can print it off when I get done. Ok whatever, and I take a few steps down hall, then it hits me....why you on phone with door locked and fan running, unless you don't want someone to hear you. Mind starts racing, feeling sick. Try to listen close as she starts talking again. I swear I hear her say the sooner we go night night the sooner we can see each other. WT!?! She then turns on music from phone. I sneak downstairs and try not to get sick. She comes down 10minutes later or so, my son says took you long enough. She tells him i was in tub and talking to your uncle (her brother). I'm thinking OK, but she is going down there (rest of her family lives 7 hours away) for a conference (leaving today home Friday, been planned for a month or more) so she is just excited to see them as she hasn't seen them in 3-4 months and it was 3-4 months since the time before that. 
I don't say anything about it, get thru the day yesterday working on myself. Last night about same time as night before she grabs her phone and going upstairs. I ask what you doing? Not mean, just asking. I'm going upstairs to call my sil is that OK? Sure, was just asking. Kids and I had been helping her make confetti for her work, so it was odd to just get up I thought. Give it a few minutes and go to bottom of stairs, and bathroom door shut. Crap..So I went into bathroom, which is under upstairs bathroom, quietly trying to lift up tiles. If cupboard has drawer open you can hear. I can hear her talking but can't make out words. I tell kids its bedtime, (it is, not just trying to get them to go up). Daughter goes up and I can hear her pounding on door. She locked it again just to talk to sil???? Feel sick again. Night goes on, she doesn't try calling back whoever she was talking to. 
This morning we talked about her driving safe, etc. She tells me her family doesn't know she's coming, its gonna be a surprise. She has just been checking to make sure they gonna be home, etc.
Hits me driving to work, if its a surprise who where you saying sooner we go night night the sooner we see each other to? If that's what she really said. Before I left I did get mileage off her vehicle so I'll know if she really did go down there.
Am I having cheaters paranoia or has she met someone? I plan on looking thru her stuff for burner phone, but I doubt she has one. Cell bill is in her name and I don't know Verizon password, or her phone password. Thoughts, suggestions? I know by my cheating 4 years ago I've done this to myself. I've repented, am working on myself, but this feels like a giant vise squeezing my chest. Do I ask her when she gets back why all the secrecy? She hasn't filed yet and has told me when she does she will tell me. I won't have to wait for papers to show up. I'm a mess.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

Sounds suspicious to me. I don't lock the door and or ask who is it, if I'm on the phone with family. If you truly heard the sooner we will see eachother and she claims this is suprise, I would say yes she's meeting with someone else. You never know who that person is though, an old friend? Ect. 

Can you retrieve the phone calls from going online (find telephone number history) to see who this person is and or how often this communication has been going on? You can't confront without proof and no I wouldn't address it, I would dig for information.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I would like to do that. Any idea if I call Verizon they will give me anything since acct is in her name?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

The only non cheating thing that would make sense to the locked doors,etc. Is if she is talking to them about filing and she doesn't want kids to hear anything.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

Honestly I do not know.  you might need her password ect... When she gets back, does she put her phone down and or have a passcode on it? 

Your best bet will be paying attention to behavior when she returns and trying to get into her phone for her call log. I would say you could somehow reach out to her family after she leaves about her possibly leaving something at their home? This way to verify if they saw her at all but then she will question why you reached to her family. I would try finding proof in other ways.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

Homer j said:


> The only non cheating thing that would make sense to the locked doors,etc. Is if she is talking to them about filing and she doesn't want kids to hear anything.


But then why tell you they don't know she's coming and who is she telling the sooner I will see you? She didn't tell the truth, if it was some friend. Are you sure that's what you heard?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

That's what I think I heard. I've got the mileage, so I'll know if she went to see family. I'll call Verizon and ask about copy of records as I want to plan surprise party and need friends numbers or something. She has always had a password on her phone so kids are playing on it. I'll try to pick it up after she uses it to get in. I'm afraid I'm going to have to resort to listening thru door, etc. And if I hear something more concrete then confront her on it.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Whatever you do, don't tip your hand you suspect she might be cheating. You have no real proof and if she is shell just work harder at hiding it. Do not voice your suspicions to her either.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Would overhearing a conversation be enough to confront? Say I listened at door and hear enough to know its not a family member, then confront?


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

No you need more proof and just hearing the sooner I'll see you, isn't solid proof of her cheating.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

If she talked to her SIL wouldn't they know she is coming?

What about making some excuse to call her family when she is supposedly there. Maybe say something like you wanted to send her flowers as a surprise but forgot their address. Make up an excuse. Might be a good way of confirming. Even if they say she's there their tone of voice might reveal something. Have you thought of the possibility that she has rekindled something with an old boyfriend that lives near her family and that's who she's really going to see?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Get two VAR's one for her car and one for the bathroom.

You'll find out quick


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thinking on the vars. She said she has been asking sil if her kids got volleyball games, etc. I've thought about the old bf. She has mentioned more than once she doesn't want a divorce war with her wanting to take kids out of state, and since she doesn't see family often I believe she is going to stay with them. If she's seeing someone I think they are here. I thought I saw her downloading Skype on her phone. Kids have it on their chrome books so could be to chat with them while gone. This trip could be a romance thing, and maybe not. I don't think I will know anything until she gets home and I observe more. I will call her when she should be at the house to say goodnight, etc. With 4 kids that house isn't quiet. I plan on looking for a certificate or something. 3 day conference should get something from it.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

If I could get phone records I'd know, but I don't think Verizon will give them to me as acct is in her name and I don't know passwords.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

VARs in the bathroom and her car. It's the only way you will find out.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Almost lunch time and couldn't eat anything if I felt like it. This is so much not fun everyone should do it, and put the diet ppl out of business.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm assuming don't discuss this with my counselor tomorrow night either. I know its obvious, but focusing isn't to easy ATM.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Look at devicetrackerplus.com. anyone know if this will alert person you are tracking? It works off phone number. I don't know anyone else to test on.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

I believe this is something you can talk about with your counselor. Why overwhelm yourself with the possibilities and your feelings?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty nb. Appreciate it


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Homer j said:


> If I could get phone records I'd know, but I don't think Verizon will give them to me as acct is in her name and I don't know passwords.


Check her address book if she has one sometimes they put the password in there. Or anywhere she keeps her bills, etc


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm sure she took her planner. I'll look in bill stuff. Just not sure if you log in from something other than phone will she get a message. My phone has a data tracking thing on it that I activated to see what it was. I tried to log in with what I thought her password was, it wasn't right and that night she asked if I had done something. I said yes I activated mine as the last few months my data usage was ridiculous. Found out I had to turn something off. So I was checking it to make sure was doing OK. She seemed to believe it. This was last week sometime.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

One more vote for VARs. Most people get immediate info.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm sure they do. When she gets back if the secrecy continues I'll get some. Nothing I can do for 4 days so might as well try to live a bit. I am going to make sure I put some tape behind the sink stand hinges so the door won't close 100%, and get a small hole in a tile for short term when she gets back.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I should say I'm preparing myself for the week she gets back for her telling me she has filed. If the secrecy goes away after that, then I'll assume that's what it was about. If she files and still keeping secrets then I will cause I won't play nice if she's fooling around.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'd suggest you be very careful with a VAR. If my hb fvcked an ex gf for 4 months and then spied on ME our marriage would be over, if it wasn't already.

One could argue that if you find something that marriage is toast anyway, but if you don't and she finds out that might be it.

It's funny to me that she, as a betrayed wife, now has to go out of her way to prove to the cheater that she's not cheating. Consider this from her perspective. 

There is the possibility that she's in the bath venting about you, given that she's in such a bad place. I suppose people do it but if I was going to talk to another man I wouldn't do it with my hb in the house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Homer j said:


> I should say I'm preparing myself for the week she gets back for her telling me she has filed. If the secrecy goes away after that, then I'll assume that's what it was about. If she files and still keeping secrets then I will cause I won't play nice if she's fooling around.


Rich coming from the cheater.

Look, I get a lot of me me me from your posts. I get that you're sorry but it seems be from the perspective of what it's going to do to your life. Think carefully: if your wife stayed married to you and fvcked you regularly how much would you worry about her pain? I know the engineering type, I've got a degree in physics. That may be part of the problem here..... she has forgiven you for screwing up but you come across like everything is about you. Your feelings, your this, your that; you feel like you're cheated on? Cmon now, you have to know how that sounds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

For this forum yes I'm sure there is a lot of me and I. I'm writing it. These are my feelings, and thoughts. Ive never shied away from what i did or why. I know the pain ive caused her.
Like I've said I really thought we were OK. She visits her family for Christmas (I stayed at home for a funeral and an interview for a job closer to home making more $, that she wanted me to not cancel) comes home and drops the bomb. 
Looking back I can see things I've done wrong. I've never said I was perfect. I'm working on those areas to get better. I'm hoping all she is doing is venting about me. The thing is, her job allows her to work when she wants basically, and her sil doesn't work so they have all day to talk once kids are gone to school. 
I told her it's like a switch got flipped while she was gone and she sees how I can see that is what happened. So, this is all a big shock when I thought we were doing well, had agreed in counseling to talk to each other so it didn't get bad, (she also agrees she didn't do this, just talked to her gfs and her friend who does some counseling). When she has never gone to another room to talk, or run the fan while in the tub it seems like a red flag to me. Besides asking her when she first said anything, if she had found someone else ive not said one thing about her possibly cheating. 
I've never tried to defend my actions with her. If it comes across that way here I apologize. I believe she knows I've been sincere in my apologies, and that I wish I could take her pain away.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I understand your comment on the var. That's why I'm not running out to get them on the way home. She is gone for 4 days. Now would be the time to get them, test them, etc. But I'm not because deep down I don't think she is doing anything.
The house we live in has been in my family for over 50 years. It is our family farm. If things go bad I'm ready to sell it and move to where she is to keep working on us and see my kids. I want her to be happy more than anything. I know I broke her heart. Do I want to stay married? Yes. Do I think it's gonna happen? No. If she is seeing someone I don't know how we can if she isn't willing to stop seeing him like I stopped seeing my OW. Thats what's driving me today, so again I apologize if its me and I alot.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Why did you stop seeing your OW and did you confess? Or did she find out? 

Sorry if you've already answered and I missed it.

If she found out on her own that's worse because she knows you're not forthcoming. 

She does forgive you but your bond is broken. You're no longer the guy she can trust with everything. Maybe she thought she could get past it and wanted to but now realizes she can't. Not everyone can; just look at your panic at the very thought that she might have someone else.

High price for a cheap piece of trash. 

My comment about being rich referred to your comment about not being nice if she's cheating. Why shouldn't she get the same consideration you got?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

When my A turned physical I filed. I thought if she found out we would be done. I filed I'm may I believe. By the end of June the fog was clearing. I knew my OW wasn't who I really wanted, but I felt I had no other choice but to continue with the D and make the best of it. Not what I wanted, but I'd done this horrible thing, my W wouldn't want me, no choice. She found emails on my 2nd yahoo account. Confronted me on them. I admitted everything right there. We were on vacation at the time. She told me to decide. I told her I choose her (w). We called my OW at work told her it was done and I was working on my marriage. We went to counseling, did a bunch of things to reconnect. That was 3.5 years ago so I thought we were OK. I got the bomb new years eve, and have scrambling ever since on trying to not have this end. I'm so thankful for the chance she gave me to fall in love with her all over again. I've told her this many times.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Here we go again. Called her on the way home to see how drive was, etc. Talked about crappy roads, accident she was almost in. Told her to be careful coming home Friday as supposed to possibly be bad again...um yeah...Friday is the only day her mom can come see her. She lives another hour south of her sil. Her step dad is a big wig at the lodge or whatever it is and has things to do m-f. So now she is gonna stay until Sunday I'm guessing. Seeing her mom I get. I'm sure she is. And yes I'm being selfish here cause I'm sure her mom is gonna give her $$$ to get an attorney next week. She told me last weekend in one of our talks that she had reached out to ppl for $$$. Didn't say who but I'm sure it's her mom and dad. Night just got better. Go home team. 
Selfish I know, but that's what I'm feeling at the moment.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Sometimes where an affair is concerned a betrayed spouse will panic, but after they get you back they start to wonder if you're really worth it.

You filed on her for your piece of trash? No wonder she is having such a hard time. 

This may not be salvagable, but you won't help it by spying and being up her a$$. She's got to come to you. 

Let her file and move on. Maybe she'll miss you and want to come back..... that's your only chance here. And give her a fair settlement since it's you that caused it.

I wish more people would think about what they're wrecking for a piece of trash. Even if you'd gone with ow all you'd get is a woman who fvcks married men and she'd get a guy who cheats on his wife.

The whole thing is sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Not that you want to hear this but when I cheated in my first marriage I did the phone in the bathroom with the fan thing. For that matter I also lied about a conference and went to Vegas with the OM. 

Not helpful in settling your nerves down but they are pretty concerning behaviors in combination with the increased detachment from your wife. You are in quite the pickle, you have to prove you are trustworthy and want to save the marriage so you can't be confrontational because it will blow up on you.

If she is brass enough to make phone calls to the OM from the house when you are home then she is so done. To manage your expectations she isn't going to call this a we are even affair (if there is one), so she might be doing this cause she need something to trigger the final straw. This might be her exit strategy. I know for me that is what mine was, a good clean way to end a dead marriage.

My goodness this is the most negative thing I thing I ever posted


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

You need to talk with your wife. Dont let her shut you down,or go to another room.

Tell her what you did for her over 3.5 years. Ask her for help or guidance,where you stand at this point ?

If she was working on Divorce papers she should tell you.

You caused her a lot of pain.

She is asking for money from another people. She could use that for anything,but I belive she was using it for a lawyer.

You know you cant force her to love you or respect you,but if she was going for D you have right to know.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Life... Yes I did. I regretted doing it when I did it and have very day since.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Jelly...yes that's exactly what's driving me nuts.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

She has said if she files she will tell me. Won't let me be surprised by papers in the mail.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I know I'm pretty direct, but us science types usually get each other.

I hope you know it's not my intent to insult you, only my intent to call what I think is going on.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Life... Your last paragraph I couldn't agree with you more on. In my case I had unresolved issues with my ex gf. Issues I didn't know existed. 
When I reached out to her on FB my only intention was to say hi. I really thought she would tell me to f#$k off. 
My wife and I weren't fighting per se, but with 3 kids we had grown apart. She had time for our kids, the daycare kids she watched, the parents picking up kids, school things, her gfs. When I wanted some time she was tired. She hadn't put makeup on in years. Even on the rare occasion we did get a night away it was put on clean clothes and go. Rarely would she be out of sweats when I got home. I lost track of how many times i got the sorry I haven't showered yet line. I could feel myself feeling more worthless. My wife that I love and I'm not even worth making the effort to shower before I get home?? 

Sometimes while mowing the lawn I'd start wondering what my ex was doing. I have no idea why. Soon it was almost every time I mowed, or doing some long mindless task. I didn't think I could talk to my wife about how I felt. The times I'd tried, I got the you know I would like to do that but I'm just beat from watching kids, working, etc. I'd say I know, try to suck it up, and little did I know fall farther down the self esteem ladder.
So I got a FB account in december. Not to look her up. We had a hs reunion in sept, and I wanted to see people that didn't make it. I didn't look up my ex until may/June the next summer. Then it was the normal story you hear. Emails, instant messaging at lunch. The emails went on for a few years my wife said. I didn't think it was that long, but not arguing. My ex gf lived and worked an hour away so I thought I was safe. I had someone who listened to me, who I could talk with about something other than home life. 
At some point we had an opening at my work for a position she did. I told her to apply. Never thinking in a million years she would get it. The company I worked for liked people with college degrees and she didn't have one. So I'm thinking, be nice, tell her about it and nothing more will happen. She got the job, and when she started working things got physical at lunches. When the physicality started I knew it was wrong. The only thing I could think of to make it right was divorce. 
It was by far the worst mistake I've ever made. I broke my wife's heart while I was in fantasy land.
When I told her I had filed, she did a lot of soul searching among other things. She started putting on make up, dressing nicely, showering before I got home. That's when the fog started clearing. My wife started caring about herself again. Started listening to me when I'd talk to her instead of half listening while really watching the kids. I realized I did love her still. A few weeks later she found my other email account. You know the rest. 

I was wrong for what I did. I've always accepted that. I've apologized since d day. I love my wife more today than I ever have.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

As long as I'm baring my soul I will also so I'm a recovering porn addict. I've been fighting that battle for a good 15 years at least. After my wife found out I had an issue with porn she stood by me after I confessed that I couldn't stop. I told her I was going to quit. I know I am an addict as when I start I can tell myself stop, don't do it, but I do it anyway. When I stop looking I feel sick to my stomach for failing her again. Over the years I would say I'm 95% better than I was. I went from failing every time she left the house to going 6-7 months without falling. The last time I fell was while she was gone to her family after Christmas. I decided then that 95% isn't good enough. I need to be 100%. 
I can tell I've changed, between the last failure and my wife telling me she can't see us together anymore. I used to enjoy looking at the ladies that have yoga butts, or whose boobs got into the room a minute before the rest of them. 
Not anymore. They are just people who are women. Nothing more. I know 2 weeks isn't anything. All I can do is one day at a time, but this time I'm committed to getting to 100%. If I can beat this I can do anything. Including making other changes to be the husband and father to my kids I need to be. I only hope and pray my wife will give me the chance to show I can do it. I've told her I want to do these things, but if she's not the one to benefit from them it won't mean anything to me. She can see I've made changes, and is happy for what I've been able to do.
Sorry these were so long, but that's everything I can possibly tell you all.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Life..no offense taken. I've told my wife about the direct thing. Our counselor affirmed that to my wife while we met with him. That was something she was supposed to accept and work on herself. I don't see aqua. I see blue, so if u tell me something kinda close I'm not going to put those pieces together. She understood and has done a great job. It appears the last few months when she started having issues again she resorted to aqua and I didn't see it. When we talked new years eve and she said she had been making comments I was able to put the pieces together, but it was to late. That's not saying I haven't worked on trying to not be so blue, and get towards aqua. I was making sure I held her hand, snuggled when we got in bed. Things like that as touchy feely is her love language. Am I perfect, no, but I am a lot better than I was. She has told me this. It's something I continue to work on, albeit now it's only hugs leaving and coming home, with an occasional hand hold for a minute while watching TV.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

One question....if she's at sil house like she should be, it will be noisy. If its abnormally quiet do I mention it? I'm guessing no. I plan on asking how excited was everyone to see her show up. Sorry anxiety starting to ramp up. Not looking forward to this. I really hope its noisy so I can sleep tonight.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I need help!! Get home from daughters practice. My son and other daughter trying to call her for an hour. No response. I call no answer. Call her sil. She hasn't seen her or talked to her in a while. No one knows where she is.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Sorry, Homer. .

I'm sure she'll check in at least for the children. It doesn't sound good for you, though. I can sympathize with her given what you've done to her, but I hope she hasn't been lying to you.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Finally talked with her. She said having dinner with class mates and phone had died so it was in room charging.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

So when I talked with wife last night she said she talked to youngest daughter that night before she went to eat. She woke up while I was getting ready, and I asked her about talking to mommy. She said she didn't talk to her while I was gone. She didn't answer. So is an A going on and she was done with a romp when she called me? Or my daughter who is 9 just forgetting a call that was made cause she wanted to talk with her more? It doesn't feel right, but maybe paranoia.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Daughter talked to her before I left so both were telling truth.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Trying to 180, as I don't think I can talk her out of filing. Especially since she is seeing her mom now. Sure that's where lawyer $$ coming from. The bank accounts are in her name, she puts $ in my acct when I tell her I need it for gas, groceries, repair parts, etc.

If shes going to file this next week like I think she is, do I get my own acct now? Stop having my paycheck direct deposited into her acct? Or is that going to provoke her to file? Should I wait until after I get papers? I would tell her I've done the above as we have a lot of bills that are auto pay and we don't need to deal with that. 

I would have her tell me how much she needs me to transfer, what bills being paid, etc. It's been almost 20 years since I've managed my money like that. If she is gonna divorce me she doesn't need to be starting a savings and I have nothing when we are done. Also using my money to pay her attorney. I make about 75% of the house hold income in case you were wondering. Advice is needed here. Thanks


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I have the number for her office at work. Thinking about calling it to get location of conference she is at. I'd tell receptionist I want to send her flowers. See is she gives me a number, or if she didn't schedule her to go to it. Thoughts?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Yes that would be a good idea. Homer, you need to know what is going on in order to do the right thing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, call the receptionist. Good idea.



> She *visits her family for Christmas* (I stayed at home for a funeral and an interview for a job closer to home making more $, that she wanted me to not cancel) *comes home and drops the bomb*.


She said if she files she will move back home (family's hometown). 

The same home she was at when she came right home and said she may want a divorce.

The same home her old classmates are at. Male AND female.

She reconnected with someone in December.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> Yeah, call the receptionist. Good idea.
> 
> She said if she files she will move back home (family's hometown).
> 
> ...


Probably earlier than December.

That's why she did not want Homer to cancel his job interview. So she could go unaccompanied to firm up her assessment of OM and make up her mind.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Nope, her dad lives where she went with kids at Christmas. She is at her brothers now. Different direction. Her brothers is close to where she grew up though.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

My dilemma is if I call her work and they know nothing about it I don't want to cause an issue there. I think it's safer to get var and wait. Knowing today isn't going to help, besides make me a worse wreck when I go to my convention tonight and tomorrow. If she is getting $$ while visiting, she will be filing soon. If the secrecy goes away that was what it was about. If not I've got the var.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

Homer j said:


> My dilemma is if I call her work and they know nothing about it I don't want to cause an issue there. I think it's safer to get var and wait. Knowing today isn't going to help, besides make me a worse wreck when I go to my convention tonight and tomorrow. If she is getting $$ while visiting, she will be filing soon. If the secrecy goes away that was what it was about. If not I've got the var.


Sounds like a reasonable plan.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Homer j said:


> My dilemma is if I call her work and they know nothing about it I don't want to cause an issue there. I think it's safer to get var and wait. Knowing today isn't going to help, besides make me a worse wreck when I go to my convention tonight and tomorrow. If she is getting $$ while visiting, she will be filing soon. If the secrecy goes away that was what it was about. If not I've got the var.


Is she presenting at the conference or just attending? Also not hard to find a person, we have google afterall.

First I would Google for conference in the city she is supposed to be attending. That is the easiest step to know if the conference is completely a fraud or just a cover. People in affair fogs don't always come up with good cover stories.

Then next time you talk to her ask her about the conference, avoid the family conversation. Ask if she found it useful, was there any presentations she liked, even if there was a keynote speaker. Cheaters have a hard time with details. If she can give you pretty good details then you can rest much easier. Be careful here though you need to sound interested not creepy  If she asks why so many questions just say you were trying to have a neutral conversation with her and take more interest in her job instead of always making conversations about relationship stuff.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Homer j said:


> My dilemma is if I call her work and they know nothing about it I don't want to cause an issue there. I think it's safer to get var and wait. Knowing today isn't going to help, besides make me a worse wreck when I go to my convention tonight and tomorrow. If she is getting $$ while visiting, she will be filing soon. If the secrecy goes away that was what it was about. If not I've got the var.


What issue ? Are you kidding ? If they know nothing about this, you have bigger problems buddy.

You can always say, sorry I got the dates mixed up or something - but the bigger issue is that she lied to you. I am beginning to think there is more to what Turnera said earlier - there may be someone there that she is evaluating.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I looked on line. We can't move more than 100 miles apart and court can stop her from going out of state.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Call or have someone call and ask for her. Will she be back tomorrow? See of they say she is in training, etc. and will not return till ?. or just took time off/vacation time.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

She works from home mostly, only goes in for meetings, so I'm guessing they will just give me her cell, but I will try that. Ty for idea.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Well, while reading how to help your spouse heal from your affair today, in the trigger chapter something hit me.

One of my daughters has a friend that bowls on Sat morning. We have had the usual spending nights at each others house stuff. You can't go tonight she has to bowl in the morning, she is coming over when she gets back from bowling, etc. In thinking on it I have heard this more often since school started. A few months ago, when she said she started to feel off.

Guess where the majority of my meets took place.

The bowling alley isn't where you would go by it everyday. When my A first came out, if we did go by I would grab her hand and say are you OK, etc. We don't bowl, and she doesn't go there, that I'm aware of. Could this be the trigger her and her counselor didn't find? I wouldn't have thought hearing about someone else bowling would do it.

She is at her family and her mom came up today to see her. She hasn't seen her in over a year I think. So that being said I don't want to ruin anything tonight or tomorrow. So I'm going to wait until she gets home Sunday.

Thoughts on how to do this without causing damage, or if it is what did it, there is no good way to do it?

I've been trying to find info on triggers, I'm not finding much. I find what they are and obvious things, like driving by the location, smells, sayings, etc. Does anyone have anything that goes in depth a little more? If hearing of someone else bowling can do it, what other subconscious things can happen? Thanks for thoughts.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Called her before going to bed tonight. No I love you,(not expecting, but always hoping). I did get thanks for calling, instead of the usual ok, when I say I love you. Not sure if its a step back to us, or if Im now in friend zone. See what happens tomorrow.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Coming across as weak and needy isnt going to help.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Coming across as weak and needy isnt going to help.


I would have to agree with you buddy, I get so frustrated I when reading the stories. When it comes to wayward wives and BH they seem to come off so weak. I'm Reading BH's the stories, I'm finding myself getting upset and angry. I think to myself wow I can totally understand how their wives has lost complete respect for them. Just in the amount of time that it took me to barely get through halfway through the story...I knew what was going to happen next. Poor BH's. I guess we call it Mr. nice guy syndrome... "0P" it's more than likely that your wife is having her own affair and you will soon find that out. For your own sake and your kids you better toughen up a little bit buddy... She has no respect for you, and she's going to rain down hell on you. When she gets back. so I would get your money all your stuff situated at least have a little bit of a head game... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

How is saying I love you, have a nice day, things like that be showing weakness? Isn't that just being polite? I've been told I have to show vulnerability, then I get I need to toughen up. How can you do both at the same time? I think I have to be vulnerable until I know she doesn't have an A going on herself don't I? 

I'm reading and working on myself and when I stumble across something that I learn and can grow from I want to show her I've found a flaw to work on etc. Isn't that vulnerability? I'm exposing my weaknesses so I can fix them? That's not the same as being a doormat, which I don't think I am.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Google NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY free download. Download MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER from amazon.com first. It will explain everything.

You have to re earn your respect. She's given you the ILYBINILWU speech, she's just getting her ducks in a row.


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## Myself_ (Jan 15, 2016)

I can't say that I am surprised from the fact that your wife is still struggling to forget your cheating. I am surprised that you feel cheated. I really can't understand - at all- the people who choose to stay in a destroyed marriage than having a divorce. Usually, after the cheating part, either the scars will be healed (as possible as that can be) and the relationship will get stronger and the couple will start over with a new beginning, or either they will understand that the marriage is over and they get divorced.
My theory says, that it is not the divorce the real problem. The real problem is the problematic couples relationship. Sometimes divorce is the best choice. Selfish behavior is a characteristic of those who cheat. Not all of them, but the most. They think only about their self. The fact that after 3,5 years the phantom of your cheating is still in your marriage, that means that your wife will never forget your cheating (probably). It will always comes on the surface. So, it might be a good idea a visit to a counselor. And if she still insists about the divorce, you have to let her go. The scars on the body can get healed one day. The scars on the soul never.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

If the D is what she wants I know I have to let her go. That doesn't mean I will let my marriage end without trying though. 

I'll get those other books. Ty for advice


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## ivory (Oct 23, 2015)

*Love your life*

Don't just love your wife. Love your life! This is just today Homer J and nothing is pored in concrete. To be attractive you gotta be happy and that's your best bet. From your posts, it can be that your desire for your wife is driving happiness from you and that is working against your cause. 

Accept today as it is. Your heart is beating, you are breathing, you are alive. Learn to enjoy it and that will give you a leg up on the competition. But beware... you may just outgrow her and be drawn to someone more like you.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty ivory. I'm trying to remind myself of that. It's hard knowing, she is hurting and I can't help her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Homer j said:


> I'm reading and working on myself and when I stumble across something that I learn and can grow from I want to show her I've found a flaw to work on etc. Isn't that vulnerability? I'm exposing my weaknesses so I can fix them? That's not the same as being a doormat, which I don't think I am.


It IS the same as being a doormat. Read No More Mr Nice Guy before you have any more contact with her. You can read it right now, online.

Wife, you cheated on me and left me for a stronger man. But I'm now seeing how f'd up I am and I'm going to show you how much better I can be so you will pick me!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> It IS the same as being a doormat. Read No More Mr Nice Guy before you have any more contact with her. You can read it right now, online.
> 
> Wife, you cheated on me and left me for a stronger man. But I'm now seeing how f'd up I am and I'm going to show you how much better I can be so you will pick me!


Where exactly does it say that his wife cheated?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oops! Sorry, I was thinking about another thread at the same time. Ignore my second paragraph!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> Oops! Sorry, I was thinking about another thread at the same time. Ignore my second paragraph!


No worries, happens to all of us 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I find value in directness. I think you should try to calm down, wait for your BW to come home and schedule a time for a serious talk. If you can master your fear and guilt, you can do your part to have an honest discussion about your marriage and where it is now, where the two of you see it going, etc. This is where you are both vulnerable and NOT needy - this is where you let down your defenses, but stay honest and strong.

You are afraid right now and this appears to be driving everything you do. The posters at SI are predominantly women and will have different reactions to the predominantly male viewpoint here. If I were you, I would try to see value in both of these sites.

Try to let go of the fear, understand that you can't control her, you can only control yourself, take a huge breath, and accept that your marriage may be over. Accept it. If she wants to keep giving you a chance, then you stay committed to helping her heal. You be the best H you can be. You go to counseling, read the books, listen to her, and just generally do your best to be a decent man, a good husband, and a good father. You can control all of those things.


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## Sammy TC (Jan 16, 2016)

I am sorry you and your partner are experiencing this. I am in the same boat, although I am the one who was cheated on. We are 4 years out and I'm still not "home" in the sense of trusting my partner. I love my partner, and have forgiven, but still am guarded. My partner answers all my questions, acts loving, participates as an equal partner in family life, but could still take the reins in the healing process. I think he is so busy trying not to be in trouble with me that he doesn't see how I am in trouble. He could check in with me at intervals, and disclose truths without waiting to be asked. He could take paint a picture for me of what he wants for our relationship instead of sitting back and expecting me to articulate the dream. He has to actively accept me, not wait for me to "take him back". I'm betting your partner still loves you, just doesn't want to open herself up to being hurt again.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thank you for the insight. I've got to try and focus for the next 4 hours. I'm coaching my sons basketball team and they need my attn. Hoping once we get to gym I can concentrate.

It's little things right now that keep bothering me. For example, we texted this morning a little, I ended saying have a good day. No response. Really?? You can't say you too? I then tried to call her on my way home as I am a nervous wreck about games (I've never coached). No answer. I waited half hour and texted SIL and asked her to tell wife if she's with her to call me. Within 5 minutes she's calling me. It's quiet where she is, says in a few she is going to niece cheer stuff, she is just finishing up some on line questions she didn't get done from her conference so its done. So if that's what you are doing you couldn't answer when I called????

That's what's killing me right now.


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## Myself_ (Jan 15, 2016)

Really??? Are you joking now right? You left your wife the moment you decided to cheat on her. You say you don't want divorce. I will ask one more time. Really??? Either you are lying to all of us in here either you are lying to yourself. I doubt that after that incident (your cheating) you can save your marriage. And the reason is that she probably doesn't trust you any more. Trust is everything for a healthy relationship/ marriage. Its ok to try to save your marriage ..but you should have done something earlier, before you cheat on her. The point is that something is wrong with your marriage. I believe that she doesn't trust you any more. And I don't know if she will ever do something like that from now on. I don't blame her. Even if someone survive from cheating he/she continues to suffer. I am not divorce fan but sometimes it is one way road.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Homer, I mean this in the most helpful way, but you become less attractive with every post you make.

You cheat on her, you file for divorce, she eventually decides she can't deal with, and you're constantly up her azz and clinging

If you had any chance of saving things you're continuing to fvck it up.

Geez, leave your wife alone.

I can almost promise that she hung up the phone and b!tches about how pathetic you are. 

What's a "have a nice day" worth if you had to b!tch and beg it out of her?

You are still about you. Stop it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Homer j said:


> Thank you for the insight. I've got to try and focus for the next 4 hours. I'm coaching my sons basketball team and they need my attn. Hoping once we get to gym I can concentrate.
> 
> It's little things right now that keep bothering me. For example, we texted this morning a little, I ended saying have a good day. No response. Really?? You can't say you too? I then tried to call her on my way home as I am a nervous wreck about games (I've never coached). No answer. I waited half hour and texted SIL and asked her to tell wife if she's with her to call me. Within 5 minutes she's calling me. It's quiet where she is, says in a few she is going to niece cheer stuff, she is just finishing up some on line questions she didn't get done from her conference so its done. So if that's what you are doing you couldn't answer when I called????
> 
> That's what's killing me right now.


Good lord, you might as well drive her away with a stick. Shut the eff up and let her wonder about you.

3.5 years to 5 years is the length of time it takes to heal. She will never forget.

You think you can drive yourself crazy and its not going to spill over on her? Get real. You cheated, most women don't give you the chance you got. Most simply can't. You ma just have to carry that load.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Homer j said:


> Thank you for the insight. I've got to try and focus for the next 4 hours. I'm coaching my sons basketball team and they need my attn. Hoping once we get to gym I can concentrate.
> 
> It's little things right now that keep bothering me. For example, we texted this morning a little, I ended saying have a good day. No response. Really?? You can't say you too? I then tried to call her on my way home as I am a nervous wreck about games (I've never coached). No answer. I waited half hour and texted SIL and asked her to tell wife if she's with her to call me. Within 5 minutes she's calling me. It's quiet where she is, says in a few she is going to niece cheer stuff, she is just finishing up some on line questions she didn't get done from her conference so its done. So if that's what you are doing you couldn't answer when I called????
> 
> That's what's killing me right now.


I know it's hard, but you're not getting the remorse and empathy role yet, it seems to me. You want her to react the way you want her to & you want her to do it NOW. I get that, but you have to let yourself suffer for her sake at this point. You don't know if she's cheating; you don't know if she's going to file. You don't know what is in her head.

And here's the thing - you will never really know what's in her head. You have to discipline yourself to accept that as much as possible.

Getting bent out of shape because she isn't driven to respond to your text isn't taking care of her. It's taking care of you and your fear.

You did what you did 3 years ago. You actually filed for divorce. Because of this, your expectations for your continued marriage will forever be far from perfect. If you want your M, then the absolute best you can hope for is a reconciliation in which you continuously find your remorse and understand how you hurt her. The worst is that your marriage fails.

Because of what you did, you have no perfect options. You can hope for the best of the imperfect, but you absolutely don't know whether she will accommodate you.

You cannot control her. Try to calm down and let her have her weekend. Be honest with her when she returns.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

I would leave her alone and let her reach out to you. It's coming across as needy, checking on her to be sure she's not cheating on you (that's how I would take it). 
If I was hurt and angry, I might let you squirm to wonder, I'd also feel you are only up my A$8 to protect yourself. I don't feel it's a genuine to see how she's doing but more so of checking on her to see what she's doing. You need to give her space.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Homer, this site can not and will not absolve you. You will have to cleanse yourself


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

My really comment about the text and phone calls are my thoughts. I haven't been up her azz or called to check on her. The last 4 days she has been gone I've called to see how her day went and say goodnight at the end of the day. I called mid day as I was very nervous about coaching my first games for my son. I never made any comments to her about it being quiet, etc. I was relaying to all of you the call I had. That was all. I called her after the games were done to let her know how we did and say goodnight. I'm not planning on talking or texting the rest of the night. 

I'm very sorry for what I did. I tell her that often. I tell her I love her and miss her. I don't tell her all the thoughts and feelings I've put on here. I've cried with her, without her. Not only for our marriage that is most likely going to end, but for all the crap I've put her thru. I've told her I wish I could take it all away, and she knows it. I have always told her I love you several times a day. Especially since my A ended. I'm learning and I think growing/changing day by day. I would love to wake up tomorrow a completely different person but its not going to happen. I realize this and am committed to keep trying and not give up.

I've made mistakes since we started R. I admit that. I can't change what is already done. I not only have to change things about my personality, but I have to change how I think. That's not easy to do. I have to unlearn a lot. I'm willing to do this.

I don't know what you think I'm lying about. I have no reason to lie, I don't owe you people anything. If my thoughts and feelings don't make sense to you it doesn't surprise me. If you are familiar with the ABCD or SELF personality charts I'm the typical D or F. I'm willing to bet the majority of you are A/B people. A people are the exact opposite of D and do not get along well. I'm not making excuses, that's how I'm wired and I need to change as much as I can for my wife.

There have been a few engineers on this forum and others that know exactly why my thoughts are what they are. They have given me great insight on HOW to change my thought patterns. You act like these things are no brainers. To me they are not. Most engineers are poor people people. I am no different. I'm as far away from a people person as those of you that can't set the clock on your microwave from being tech savvy. That doesn't mean I'm better or worse than you. Just different.

I am realizing there isn't a step by step manual for this, but since that's how my brain works its making it very difficult. I'm trying to fumble my way thru this until I get the hang of it. In the mean time I'm reading and reading trying to find things that make sense to me.

My thoughts and feelings are real. I know I miss and love my wife. I know its most likely to late, but I'm trying.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Homer j said:


> Thank you for the insight. I've got to try and focus for the next 4 hours. I'm coaching my sons basketball team and they need my attn. Hoping once we get to gym I can concentrate.
> 
> It's little things right now that keep bothering me. For example, we texted this morning a little, I ended saying have a good day. No response. Really?? You can't say you too? I then tried to call her on my way home as I am a nervous wreck about games (I've never coached). No answer. I waited half hour and texted SIL and asked her to tell wife if she's with her to call me. Within 5 minutes she's calling me. It's quiet where she is, says in a few she is going to niece cheer stuff, she is just finishing up some on line questions she didn't get done from her conference so its done. So if that's what you are doing you couldn't answer when I called????
> 
> That's what's killing me right now.


When you have stopped having you hard cheese and whine party, please think on this:

She is your wife, not a life preserver for you to cling on to in choppy seas.

What is the one, killer reason that would stop your wife leaving you?

That's right. *There isn't one*.

You have to correct your attitude and fix yourself, as your first step.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I wasn't whining, I was venting frustration at the situation. I grew up saying thank you, no thank you, etc. If someone says have a good day, you reply the same. To me that's just being polite. That was all I was getting at.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

We're trying to help you understand that your wife must come to you. You can't chase her..... that makes you look clingy and pathetic. 

And it must happen on her timetable, not yours, which is the part you don't seem to get. "But why can't she wish me a good day? ????" Me me me me me. She can't wish you a good day because she isn't ready to do it. Maybe she'll get there. 

As for polite, well fvcking your ex gf while married is pretty far down the list of polite things to do so I'd give her a break there. 

Your wife knows you're sorry, that doesn't mean she can get past it. Speaking for myself I wouldn't, but then again I would've let your skvnk have you so clearly I'm not your wife. 

Stop nagging her. Your paranoia about her cheating is your problem. .... unless you get a lot of evidence that it's true your wife shouldn't have to pay because you did it.

And if you find out she did cheat what would your reaction be? Would she get he same consideration she gave you? Because you did comment that you're not going to play nice. 

Maybe if you leave her alone and stop tracking her she'll miss you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I am married to an engineer/physicist, so I know the thought process well. My H typically assumes certain reactions on people's parts without necessarily recognizing other factors that are in play. He definitely projects his own logic onto others. He has a certitude that works in his profession, but can get him into trouble in social situations.

The thing about human behavior is that it is predictable at the same time it is not predictable. This means that for a given experience, there is a set of possible behaviors rather than just one behavior that you can expect. Some elements of the set are heavily represented & thus are a norm. Others are less likely.

So, you know the set of possible reactions your BW can have, but you can't guarantee which particular one it will be. You want to try to influence her in the direction that you desire, but, again, there is no guarantee that you can do that.

You sound like you are doing the right things now to be an attentive, loving H and father. This is the best way to prejudice your case. Now you have to wait and see which of the possible behaviors in this situation your BW will choose.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Homer j said:


> Married 16+ years 3 kids. 3.5 years ago was an idiot and had affair with ex gf. Admitted I was wrong, did counseling, etc. Thought everything was OK. Last week she tells me she is struggling to get over my affair, is trying to but can't garentee won't get a div. After so long I thought we were OK, so now I feel like I was cheated on. I know I caused the problem in the first place. Am I supposed to sit and do nothing and watch my marriage fall apart after 3.5 years ?


You know what I hate about being betrayed? That I will never ever not have been betrayed. And I will forever be reminded of it in ways I cannot control.



When I am sitting with my wife watching a television show or a movie where infidelity is part of the story.
Whenever I see symbols or associations that remind about the specific industry or work the OM does--I get to relive it then too.
Whenever I visit the city that she flew to, to meet him on work.
When talking with friends and hearing about infidelity rumors in my social circle.
When the OM, or something about him, rolls by my Facebook feed


And more....

So forgive me for having sub zero pity for you....


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Yes, I would give her the option to drop her A, just like she gave me. I've told you the not playing nice has to do with taking kids out of state, if she is having an A and doesn't want to drop it to work on us, assuming that is what has caused this, and its not she can't get past it. I'm really hoping she isn't having an A. That would be one less thing to work on. I have enough as it is.

If the sudden secrecy isn't an affair, I've told you I am willing to move to the same area she is to stay close to kids, and continue working on us, if she is willing. 

IF she is having an A and doesn't want to leave it, then explain to me why I should then let her take kids 2 states away? Her A would then be OK because I had my A first?

You are saying leave her alone and let her come to me. OK. But I've also gotten posts on here and read that say make sure to say I love you, ask what can I do for you, ask to hold hands etc. Even if turned down, keep asking as next time she might say yes, and then it is up to her when she wants to do it.

So which is it, because those appear to be the opposite. I have not been smothering, or blowing up her phone. When she gets home tomorrow I'll give her a hug, say glad your home, ask about the drive, etc. If she brings up her class I'll listen attentively. On Monday I'll give her a hug and tell her I love you. I drive an hour one way to work, and I've told her as long as she will let me I'd like to tell her that as you never know what can happen, and if I get in an accident I want her to know that is how I feel still about her.

I say a lot more on here than I do to her by far.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty alte dame!!!


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Scrambled, I understand your pain and am sorry for you having to go thru your struggles. 

I have not asked for yours or anyone's pity. I've been trying to understand what is going on in my wife's head for the last 2 weeks, since on the outside everything was going OK. 

I came to this forum for insight and help. I have received a lot of both.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You would be wise to limit contact at this time, your efforts even though I understand what you're going through will just alienate her more than she is.

You come across as weak and needy. You may not see it but everyone else does.

That's very unnattractive to a woman. You don't have the high ground to do anything at this time.

Work on yourself. It's the best thing right now no matter what happens. It's completely out of your hands at this point.

If you do find she's in an affair perhaps you should end the marriage. There may be too much baggage here to salvage.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Compare marcs last post to the one Marduk posted on Jan 6. They seem to me to be the opposite of each other.

Am I not understanding them??? If not please try to explain so I can lose this feeling of confusion.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Do you understand where you're at now?

You cannot fix her. You can only fix yourself.

If you had the high ground here which you don't you could try and find out if she's cheating but it wouldn't help your situation much since you cheated first. There would be no shock value of using exposure to bring her back into the marriage.

Back off, tell her you love her and work on yourself. Crowding her will probably push her further away.

Your actions will speak louder than words but you are in a tough situation here.

There is no magic to fixing this.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty marc


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Homer, step back, take a deeeeeeep breath, and work on YOU. Marc is right; you cannot fix her, and there is no magic to weave.

Patience is a virtue. Perhaps she will recognize all the wonderful changes you have made while you were PATIENTLY waiting for her to make a decision. These things cannot be rushed.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm trying. Failing miserably, but still trying. Ty for support and advice.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's hard to let go and not feel that you can control things. I sense that control is super important to you, H. Is that true? Do you feel that, too?

You don't have to give up control of your life to show other people respect. You show interest and concern and love, but understand that there is only so much you can do.

Does your BW resist your lead or does she typically acquiesce?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I didn't think I was controlling, but I'm finding that I am thru my selfishness. Sometimes she gives in, others she does her thing and I grumble to myself.

Today has been a real eye opener in this regard


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What kind of controlling?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

She would want to go visit her family, and I'd talk her out of it cause I didn't want to go.

Same with walks or bike rides. If it was something she wanted to do by/for herself I have no issue. Its when she wanted to do stuff with me and if I didn't want to do it I'd make excuses.

Also controlling by omission. Letting her do bills, Christmas shopping, stuff like that instead of helping.

Very dark day for me today. It's needed, but seeing how truelly horrible person I've become and I don't like it. I didn't used to be this way. I know it started one little step at a time, but not sure why yet.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You will have to find the sweet spot. Giver her space but don't ignore her.

Don't smother her but I would try and take her out for fun if she'll go. NO PRESSURE!!! Maybe try a date night once a week. 

Ask politely and do not push. If and this is important, if you feel the time is right.

No heavy talk just maybe lunch or dinner and a movie. Make it fun. Stay off any relationship stuff. 

Start taking on some of the load. Pick something around the house like dishes, laundry, etc and take it over. This needs to be permanent.

Actions not words. Show her and make sure it's permanent.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Have asked on date night, will keep asking. Kids are supposed to do laundry, but I've always done it. Kids supposed to be keeping dishwasher done as well and I've been doing a lot of that all along to, so those aren't extra from what I already do.

I try to help keep things picked, up and stuff like that. I'm trying to help her cook when she lets me.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Oh, and for the records she hates flowers, as I gave them to AP often so those are off the list of niceties. In case anyone was thinking that


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Oh, and for the records she hates flowers, as I gave them to AP often so those are off the list of niceties. In case anyone was thinking that


Switch to cards then. Heartfelt and don't overdue it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Are you sleeping together?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

In the same bed? Yes. Physical contact no. Not since early December, before her cycle for the month so going on 6-7 weeks. I get a hug once or twice a day and that's it. Nothing more.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Any more locked door bathroom phone calls?

I think a VAR in her car would be productive.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Well....we decided that D was what was needed. We will be moving to where her family is so I can stay close to kids, etc. No guarantees we get back together.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

No, phone calls.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Well....we decided that D was what was needed. We will be moving to where her family is so I can stay close to kids, etc. No guarantees we get back together.


How did this come about?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

We were talking and she broke down and said she had to get away from us, or something like that. I said OK and then we both cried for 2 hours or more. Was almost like I was watching myself do it.

We talked this morning, we both still can't believe that conversation even took place. It's what she needs right now. She was shocked when I told her i would not be living in our house either. It's been in my family for 3 generations. I told her how can I look out windows and see where the kids used to play and have not be there? I'll move close to her family so I can be with the kids. That's all I have left.

I know I have to keep working on myself. I think there is a 99% chance the D is finalized, but maybe she will change her mind in time. If not then maybe we can start all over after she can accept the betrayal.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

We are going to have one attorney, splitting time with kids is only thing really and with me moving it shouldn't be a big deal. I won't have family down there so I can work around whatever. We talked about no more secrets, she agreed. There is no OM. I'll get my var returned so I at least get my money back.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Who knows, maybe your wife will miss you. 

In the mean time, keep working on yourself and do not put your life on hold. 

But I wouldn't recommend jumping into anything else right away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Jumping into anything else won't be the problem. It will be letting go of her


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I can tell right now she is looking forward to getting to where her family is. That is my secret hope is that once she is there and adjusted she will want me back. Not counting on it, but I can hope. 

The thought of sleeping with a woman besides her I can't even fathom right now.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It's a process. You'll either work together to rebuild or you'll eventually detach.

Be patient and kind to yourself. ....yes you screwed up and you know it, and your wife may not be able to come back, but do forgive yourself. 

Learn from it and be better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do what you can to stay in her family's good graces.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

What is the difference between separation and divorce? I really don't know. I plan on asking attorney when we go file, just wondering if that's an option we should look into.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty for words of encouragement and hope.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It would be a good idea to set down with her and her family and take full responsibility for your actions if you haven't. 

Clear the air so to speak. That can only help matters.

Good luck to you


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

One thing you must do is ensure the divorce is fair to both sides. Do not cripple yourself. 

The possibility of this working out is slim and you will have to have a life afterwards. 

Don't destroy yourself financially


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What is your relationship like with her family? If is not good, you have to make an effort to make it better. Any interactions with them should be positive and cooperative. 

I think you are doing the best you can. Your apology and atonement for the affair seems genuine. Just a little info that may help if you can manage to stay married. 

R does not have an endpoint, cheating effects the relationship up to its end. You can't make it unhappen. Also, the intensity of the pain for the BS waxes and wains over time but its always there. 

Keep your sprits up, it's early days yet. Take the long view, when she gets back to her family, she may be better able to resolve things with you.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

We talked a little on money last night. I told her I want to do everything I can for her, but I can't live in a shoebox either. She understood. Hoping mediator can show us how that works. I also want to ask about if one of us remarries changing payment amount. If we are both scraping by and she finds a guy with a nice house and making big money, don't make me keep living in a shoebox. Same goes other way around, if I marry someone then I'll have more income to help her with. Not sure how that all works. Just rambling thoughts on day one. This is based on after some time we don't get back together. I know it was one night, and a lot of emotions were involved, but she really sounded like she doesn't want to do this anymore than I do. It's more she feels she has to do it. 

Today between us, is like it was before anything was said. Knowing we are both going to file together has taken a huge weight of us. She knows I love her with all that I am. I'll keep working on me and if she decides to cancel filing then OK. I don't think she will though as she wants to get down to her family. 

In a couple months if things are going good I plan on telling her I will still move if she wants to cancel D. I think she really misses her family. She has been away for almost 20 years. It's her turn to be close now.

Ty all for the advice and support.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Relationship with her family is OK. They live all over so I'll write an email and send it to them. Her brother and sil are good, they like the idea of us all being down there with them.

Her mom made a comment about getting the money back she's loaned us over the years so that will take some work.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Is the not just friends book, a WS book only, is it good for BS too? If good for both, is it better to have 2 copies and discuss after each chapter, or one person read to the other and discuss as you go? Just curious what others are finding seems to be better way to go.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Homerj, just so you know I'm on decent terms with my ex and while he did pay cs for a long time he's recently retired from the military and not making much. 

I'm making a ton more then I was when we split and I'm remarried so he's currently not paying because I understand that it's not good for my kids if he's struggling. 

Every time I post this on TAM I get comments on how it won't work or how I'm ultimately going to screw him over but I can assure you this is not the case.

I'm not a jerk and have no desire to ruin his life, I just didn't want to be married to him. 

Maybe your wife is like this, in which case she'll work with you as circumstances change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I think she is. I've told her I'm willing to do whatever I can for kids etc. I'm talking to my CPA today on getting my 401k split. Neither of us want to use any of it and pay the taxes so its just getting it done somehow.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Is the not just friends book, a WS book only, is it good for BS too? If good for both, is it better to have 2 copies and discuss after each chapter, or one person read to the other and discuss as you go? Just curious what others are finding seems to be better way to go.


It's for both. Reading together would be for a better experience for two IMO. 

His Needs, Her Needs is excellent as well.

Is she open to reading this with you.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I wanted to find out thoughts before I asked. I will ask her this weekend.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Homer j said:


> Is the not just friends book, a WS book only, is it good for BS too? If good for both, is it better to have 2 copies and discuss after each chapter, or one person read to the other and discuss as you go? Just curious what others are finding seems to be better way to go.


Ya both of you need to read it...the trick is getting the wayward to read it. 
So yes get two copies and hope the wayward picks it up, and if they do then let them lead the discussion.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm the WS so no problem with me reading it


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Not buying it !!!

SIL said she had not talked to her for a while, but she said that's who she was talking too'
NOT BUYING IT !!


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Using your guilt to move on. All was fine, until her last trip.
Then this trip, no one could reach her. NOT buying it.

Keep the family home for your kids, just make sure she has no part in it.

Rent it out if you have too.
Better yet, stay there, give her a month, then put a PI on her.

31/2 yrs, not buying it.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

OldWolf57 said:


> Using your guilt to move on. All was fine, until her last trip.
> Then this trip, no one could reach her. NOT buying it.
> 
> Keep the family home for your kids, just make sure she has no part in it.
> ...


Did she ever actually say what was the trigger after 3.5 years, hmmmm?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Locked in the bathroom, and said she was talking to SIL, but SIL said she hadn't talked to her in a while.

Did you check phone logs ??


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