# Can We Have an "Official" BPD Thread?



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

I had always suspected that my wife had BPD but Uptown's list of its 18 traits was excellent and he seems really knowledgeable about the subject. Here was his list, from a couple of other threads:

1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
7. Low self esteem;
8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she often "rewrites history" because she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.

And here is what happened with my wife:
1. YES. Her affair partner's niece came to live with us last year; one day after a few months the niece had the audacity to move my wife's shoes a few inches to one side when she was taking her own shoes off, so she went from being "like our daughter" to the devil on earth in a flash. My wife took this as a major sign of disrespect and betrayal, and I could not for the life of me understand it. I felt so bad for the poor girl.
2. YES.
3. YES.
4. Yes, to some extent.
5. YES. Absolutely.
6. YES. We, or at least I, could always recall what the so-called "issues" were however many days later, but I get the point; they were so insignificant to me that I didn't see how a normal person would even notice or care about whatever it was that upset her so much.
7. YES. I have thought for a long time that her outward cockiness was a flimsy cover for significant confidence and dependency issues.
8. YES.
9. YES.
10. YES. She was always much like anonymous's wife, the guy whose wife yelled at him because he "forgot" to remind her to take her own purse from the hair salon. If my wife had an appointment or meeting or something while I was at work, she would actually call me if she was running late to yell at me for not making sure she left the house on time. There are other examples, too. I hated that about her so goddamn much.
11. YES. She would always make major life decisions on a whim, and nothing I said could ever balance her.
12. No, not with me, because she didn't date very much before me. She kind of idealized a guy she was in love with before she met me. But she did complain about how horrible I was to her affair partner and tell him how awesome and hot he was, and that he was the only guy who could ever understand her and handle her unreasonable jealousy. So I guess that's a YES for him.
13. YES, but her BPD was so severe that she couldn't even keep the facade going for our entire courtship. And I was still foolish enough to think I could "fix" it if we got married.
14. YES.
15. YES.
16. YES.
17. YES.
18. YES.

So, 17 out of 18 for me and a perfect score overall. Not bad. 

I thought it might be a good idea for people here with borderline spouses to post their experiences here. Also, may I ask, if Uptown sees this, what is the source for these 18 points?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes, I know her...she sits at my right hand...left brain.

Nuf' said.....


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## ScottishKin (Jun 4, 2017)

I always though my partner (now wife, probable soon to be ex-wife) was unique and unto herself. Streaks of selfishness, hypocrasy, self-admitted only seeing things in black or white, severe anger issues, verbal abuse, week-long silent treatment that was brushed under the rug when she was finished and of course, the ever-defining 'I'm done' at the drop of a hat.

I came across BPD when, while we were visiting my mother in hospital following a hysterectomy and blood transfusion, my wife started a fight at her bedside over nothing. Literally, nothing. I had arranged for someone to pick something up at our house on Sunday and she took exception to it for whatever reason. This really upset my mother and I decided to do my research. Next time I visited her, I told her about this BPD I had discovered. She simply said 'labels are not there to excuse poor behaviour, son'.

My wife is 18 for 18 to varying degrees. I actually pulled out Uptown's list in my own IC. I find it rings so true to me and is distinctively less broad than the DSM criteria, yet hits every major problem with my wife's behaviour.

I mean seriously, it's like Uptown (or whomever developed this excellent list of traits) has been a fly on the wall in my relationship.

I'm only five weeks into my separation and still hurt on an hourly basis, but when I'm at my lowest, I pull out Uptown's list and although it doesnt make me feel better, it gives me significant perspective.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Can't believe this thread popped up today. 

I've been dealing with a lot of uncertainty and overall life instability for about two years. A lot more than that if you look at my first thread started. For so long and even stated in those threads was that "I don't know what the cause of the problems in my marriage" are. Now I know.

Uptown has been fantastic on these boards and I can't say enough how much I appreciate his help. For several years there has been a strong suspicion that my wife is diagnosable as BPD. Last week it was confirmed. When I met solo with our family counselor they confirmed that she is BPD and the strongest example of such that they've experienced. The comment that struck home so strongly was, "I don't believe that she will ever be able to accept your love and it is equally unlikely that she will ever be able to truly love you." My heart broke.

I'm sad, hurt, angry.... Having worked so hard for so long to bring peace and try to heal a family only to find out that for 20+ there never was a chance at healthy, is a bitter pill. 

I'm not certain what to say as advice to others. If you can't figure out what you are seeing/hearing/experiencing in your relationship, get educated. Uptowns list, websites, blogs, DSM etc are great resources. If possible get to an IC and walk through your relationship with them. It's doubtful they will 'diagnose' in absentia but more info will be helpful. 

The plan now is to allow two important events to happen in the next six months or so. For me these are critical despite the personal negatives. Then I will file for divorce regardless of the state of our relationship at the time. 

Thanks for starting the thread Ghost Rider.


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

BPD is so common I think it merits is own sub forum. I think it is estimated that 6 - 12% of the population exhibit most of these behaviours. I suspect that a higher percentage of members of TAM either are afflicted due to either themselves or a partner showing signs of BPD. My wife exhibits just about all of the 18 behaviours from what I emphasis is my viewpoint.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Only if @Uptown participates.

;-)


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Only if @Uptown participates.
> 
> ;-)


If the partner is self aware enough to know their issue and want to work at it, then a discussion would help. If they're not interested, the following image applies.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Idyit said:


> I'm sad, hurt, angry.... Having worked so hard for so long to bring peace and try to heal a family only to find out that for 20+ there never was a chance at healthy, is a bitter pill.


You end up "losing yourself" trying to maintain the relationship. The term don't sweat the small stuff always played thru my head because the littlest things would become battles. You let so much slide to keep the peace, at least I did.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

One of my children was diagnosed with BPD twice, at 18 years old and again at 21. She was sexually abused, her bio father abandoned her and quite honestly I think he has BPD. My experience with BPD is these are sexually promiscuous people as many sexual abuse victims can be, attention is forefront in their life and they will get it thru negative means if they cannot get it thru positive means, fabrications come to them in a heart-beat, unwillingness to hold a job (I understand high functioning BPDs can hold jobs), mind and logic is totally twisted as many times they protect the abuser and blame is placed on their whipping post/scapegoat, they are game players & gossips which thrive on drama, they either love you or they hate you (the whole black and white thing), they will glorify you one minute and drop you like a hot potato the next (without explanation), they are "user"/abusers placing all their problems on other people's heads and cannot take responsibility for their own actions.

A person who falls in love with a BPD better expect a ride for their life. BPDs may threaten suicide as mine ex did....said he would rather jump off the cliff at the Grand Canyon than live with me.....but in reality more partners of BPDs commit suicide because the game are so intense. They are in control and it is like a chess game in using people and how they can make their next move and come out on top. This is someone with a very LONG history of dealing with BPD.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

twoofus said:


> BPD is so common I think it merits is own sub forum. I think it is estimated that 6 - 12% of the population exhibit most of these behaviours. I suspect that a higher percentage of members of TAM either are afflicted due to either themselves or a partner showing signs of BPD. My wife exhibits just about all of the 18 behaviours from what I emphasis is my viewpoint.


I think there are 3 common characteristics we deal with that easily warrant their own "Topic" page and those are Narcissism, Passive-Aggressive Behavior, and Borderline Personality Disorder.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Ghost Rider said:


> If Uptown sees this, what is the source for these 18 points?


Rider, I generally provided two real-world examples for each of the 9 defining traits for BPD. The only exception is the addition of "strong sense of entitlement" which the American and European diagnostic manuals list only for Narcissistic PD, not for BPD. I added it to my list because I've met many folks exhibiting a strong pattern of BPD traits and ALL of them exhibit a strong sense of entitlement much of the time (i.e., whenever they are devaluing you instead of loving you). 

The reason that the diagnostic manuals list this trait only for NPD probably is because, with narcissists, the strong sense of entitlement occurs 100% of the time. In contrast, with BPDers, it occurs only when they are displaying their dark side -- as when they are splitting you black or are in a dark mood. Although entitlement is only exhibited part of the time with BPDers, I nonetheless consider it a strong BPD warning sign because, with BPDers, it is impossible to build up a store of good will or a sense of appreciation that you can draw upon during hard times. 

Granted, giving a BPDer an expensive gift likely will win you appreciation and praise for a few days -- or even for as long as two weeks if you spend several thousand on the gift. At that point, however, all the appreciation and gratitude and good will is washed away by the next intense feeling flooding the BPDer's mind. To a BPDer, her/his perception of your relationship is almost fully reliant on whatever intense feeling is being experienced AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. 

So, a few days after you give the gift, you are back to "What have you done for me lately?" After a few days, the BPDer feels entitled to whatever gifts or sacrifices you've made in the past. In my view, this childish inability to feel gratitude and indebtedness for your past sacrifices is simply a false sense of entitlement. Indeed, it is the same sense of entitlement that all four-year-old children have.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

twoofus said:


> I think it is estimated that 6 - 12% of the population exhibit most of these behaviours. I suspect that a higher percentage of members of TAM either are afflicted due to either themselves or a partner showing signs of BPD.


*TwoOfUs*, my understanding is that 100% of the population exhibits all of the behavioral symptoms of BPD -- and of the other PDs as well -- because these behaviors are ego defenses that are very useful at normal levels. As to exhibiting _strong_ traits, 100% of the population exhibits a strong pattern of BPD traits at various points in their lives. In early childhood, for example, all of us exhibit strong BPD symptoms every day. 

Even in adolescence and adulthood, all of us will sometimes exhibit a temporary flareup of our BPD traits -- causing a temporary display of strong symptoms. This flareup is most commonly caused by drug abuse or by a strong hormone change (e.g., puberty, pregnancy, postpartum, PMS, and perimenopause -- or, LOL, any other life event starting with the letter "P"). Because everyone experiences these flareups, a person is said to exhibit the full-blown disorder itself only when the symptoms are both strong and persistent (i.e., lasting many years).

With regard to the full-blown disorder itself, a recent large-scale study found that 6% of the population exhibits BPD traits that are both strong and persistent at some point in their lifetime. Of course, if those full-blown BPDers dated only each other, then 6% of relationships would contain a BPDer. Yet, because 94% of the potential mates that a BPDer meets are non-BPDers, full-blown BPDers usually have little opportunity to date other BPDers. 

Moreover, even in those situations where a BPDer does date another BPDer, they generally are not attracted to each other. The last thing an unstable person wants as a mate is another unstable person. What they really want is a stable mate who can provide them with the strong self identity that is missing in BPDers. The result, then, is that about 12% of the romantic relationships likely contain a full-blown BPDer (i.e., a person having full-blown BPD during much of his lifetime).

Like you, *TwoOfUs*, I suspect that the share of BPDer relationships exceeds 12% because BPDers tend to leave a large number of failed relationships in their wake. Moreover, that 12% figure excludes the numerous BPDers having strong BPD symptoms that always fall short of the diagnostic guidelines. My experience is that a person with strong traits that satisfy only 80% or 90% of the guidelines likely will be almost as difficult to live with as a person satisfying 100%. For the purposes of choosing a mate, then, the important issue is whether the BPD symptoms are strong. When these symptoms are strong and persistent, it simply does not matter whether they are above or below the diagnostic threshold.


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## ScottishKin (Jun 4, 2017)

Re: strong sense of entitlement

I always thought that when she was splitting me and telling me 'I never support her" despite me always being there for her in the way a partner should be or 'never doing anything around here' despite doing all the cooking, shopping and most of the cleaning that she was exaggerating for effect in the moment, as the flawed and completely erroneous logic was, frankly, senseless and unfounded.

To realise her accusations were based on a feeling in the moment and not any sort of fact basically defined our relationship.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I love the idea of a BPD thread, or even a BPD sub-forum. Honestly, some people have it in them to deal with a BPD spouse and some people don't. As someone with BPD myself, I think there needs to be some kind of a definitive guide to how to deal with a spouse BPD, without resorting to making the sufferer out to be a monster. I found a beautiful article on validation the other day; it explained precisely how to validate someone's feelings when their actions were deplorable or their thoughts were untrue. The world needs more of that in general. If I find the article I will definitely post it here.

It's true that BPDers' love buckets happen to have a giant hole in the bottom. I'll get attention or affection from my husband and almost instantly need more. 

Fortunately, after having been married to him for almost 6 years I understand that between us, that's okay. I can just ask for more reassurance and more cuddles without resorting to Cloak and Dagger manipulation tactics. My relationship with him is the only relationship in which I'm fairly certain that straightforwardness will work consistently, so I don't have to have a breakdown when I can help it. Of course, there are times when I will have a breakdown anyway, because I can't always help it, but having someone in my life who is absolutely fine with my bottomless need for attention is just such a godsend and a monumental relief to my psyche, and in return it makes me unlikely to act out.

Also, I'm rambling stream-of-consciousness now, but would like to think that an upside to being in a relationship with someone with BPD is that when they love you, you know it because they outright worship you. Because emotional constancy is rare in my world, I make sure to let my husband know every single time I feel a surge of love for him. "You know I adore you, right?" approximately every 15 minutes on a good day.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Take it from someone who's been there, Ella. Validation does NOT work in some advanced cases at least. All it does is alter reality a bit at a time. As the years go by the difference between reality and alternative reality may become a bit too much.

Other things do work, and I've used them quite a bit. Emotional constancy can be achieved if you and your partner simplify things like remove triggers.

The most important thing is to be cognizant of your own emotions, and aware of what they can do.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I love the idea of a BPD thread, or even a BPD sub-forum. Honestly, some people have it in them to deal with a BPD spouse and some people don't. As someone with BPD myself, I think there needs to be some kind of a definitive guide to how to deal with a spouse BPD, without resorting to making the sufferer out to be a monster. I found a beautiful article on validation the other day; it explained precisely how to validate someone's feelings when their actions were deplorable or their thoughts were untrue. The world needs more of that in general. If I find the article I will definitely post it here.
> 
> It's true that BPDers' love buckets happen to have a giant hole in the bottom. I'll get attention or affection from my husband and almost instantly need more.
> 
> ...


But one of the problems is when it's great, it's great...it's over the top which makes dealing with the low times harder in the long term. Sooner or later the one being "worshipped " believes they are that great but it's fantasy because in a moments notice your hated and being raged on. Then the switch flips and it's back to being in love. Validation works but generally has diminished returns over time. 

One time I remember with my ex as an example things were "great". She didn't have to work one day, I did. We had sex before I went to work and I'm leaving for the office in a good mood for obvious reasons. 3 hours later she is going off on a tantrum on phone because I left the light on in the garage. Yes I forgot to turn it off, guilty. She raged as this is a pet peeve of hers. An hour after that she is at my office still raging and screaming at me because of the stupid light. My employees were thinking of calling the police she was so out of control. All I can do is ride the wave and not get emotional myself and fuel her. I get home after work and she's back to happy and wanting to fool around again and couldn't understand why I didnt. Early in our relationship I probably would have but these types of incidents just wear you out over time. 

While the BPD person has the bottomless love bucket which needs constant fuel the non BPD has a bucket and while it gets filled it also gets emptied. At some point the bucket get low. Avoiding triggers and working around the problem again works in the short term. During the course of a marriage or long term relationship hard times happen. It's not great all the time. The BPD is less likely to work thru hard times, they have no reserves in the bucket to work with so to speak. It's impossible to have the perfect relationship thus the relationship is more a ticking time bomb in general terms. 

Of course it depends on where people are in the spectrum but even that can change over time as health/hormonal changes occur as we age. As @AVR1962 said you in for the ride of your life.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Today Dr. J2 got unglued because I made the mortal mistake of putting two pillows on top of DD2's stuffed animals. Apparently said animals were sacred or something and should not be contaminated with our detritus.

Reducing triggers works up to a point as the above post indicates. Then it's face the music time...


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