# wife swap that has left me in tatters



## plastow

this happened 7 years ago but is as painful today as it was then.i talked my wife into swapping with close pals just for the thrill of seeing her with another man .so i know its my fault.we were in their house all nervous and trying to make small talk when my wife said to the other guy come on lets start but he said he had to go to the toilet and i said likewise leaving the 2 women alone in the lounge.on returning the place was in darkness and my wife had gone into another room with the guy with the door shut.i called out you could have waited until i came back and we are supposed to stay in the same room.i felt excluded from my wife for the first time in 50 years of marriage.i tried to have some kind of sex with the other woman but could not stop thinking of what they may be doing alone in that room.my wife nor any of them understodd when i opened the door and told them to stop.which they did.we all sat in the lounge and all my wife would say was it was your idea.i kept repeating i wantd to be there with her not alone with another woman excluded from her .it took ages for me to recover from that but not after all this time i have repeated nightmares about what they may have done,when i ask my wife she says she does not remember and details which ive told her is rubbish as he was only the second man to have been to bed with her so she emembers well but wont talk it out with me.it there any hope i will be able to forget this episode.


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## ConanHub

Ever consider some therapy and couples counseling with your wife?

Looks like you waited a long time into your lives to try and become sex ninjas and you both got injured.

I bet she's dealing with problems as well.


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## jlg07

Yes she remembers. I think you need counseling for yourself and marriage counseling for the both of you.


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## jsmart

How could you want to see some other dude banging your wife. She is supposed to be your precious that you protect with your whole being, instead you let porn induced fantasies lead you to think that an OM having her was going to be thrilling. Sadly, you found out that seeing your wife in the throes of ecstasy is only fulfilling if your the man doing it. I hope that her and OM didn’t get together on the down low to finish what they started. 

Only time will help lesson the pain but it will never go completely away. The images are burned into your brain. Your wife is probably also changed as well. She no longer has that “ I’m special to my husband “ that most wives know in their heart despite their complaints about us. That you didn’t have sex with other woman and instead went to stop everything, may have partially restored that feeling for her but only partially. 

This thread can be like exhibit z that swapping, sharing, threesomes are bad ideas for the great majority people.


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## lifeistooshort

Women who have a husband that pushes them into being with another man (as opposed to wanting it themselves) often don't feel very valued by their husband. Assuming you don't have a mutually agreed upon open lifestyle most men who value their wife will not want to share.

Consider that your wife may now not feel very valued by you.


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## drencrom

50 years of marriage? You are wife swapping in your 70's????

Oy vey.


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## Tested_by_stress

drencrom said:


> 50 years of marriage? You are wife swapping in your 70's????
> 
> Oy vey.


You beat me to it lol.


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## ConanHub

Well I obviously do not support sharing, however, the OP isn't alone in doing something kinda dumb and I do believe it was a bad decision especially in their case. Some people try this and are more resilient and either leave it behind them (probably most successful couples that try this) or continue in some form for many years with varying levels of success.

Regardless, he is hurting and so is she I'm sure, and I hope they get help and some healing from the self harm they both inflicted on themselves.

So OP, you obviously know this wasn't good for you two. Are you willing to get a little professional help to seal the rift?

Do you believe your wife is hurting too?

I understand your feelings because she isn't being honest and she didn't follow the agreed upon boundaries.

She most certainly isn't feeling very good herself.

You both need a safe way to open up and communicate about your feelings to get through this.


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## lifeistooshort

ConanHub said:


> Well I obviously do not support sharing, however, the OP isn't alone in doing something kinda dumb and I do believe it was a bad decision especially in their case. Some people try this and are more resilient and either leave it behind them (probably most successful couples that try this) or continue in some form for many years with varying levels of success.
> 
> Regardless, he is hurting and so is she I'm sure, and I hope they get help and some healing from the self harm they both inflicted on themselves.
> 
> So OP, you obviously know this wasn't good for you two. Are you willing to get a little professional help to seal the rift?
> 
> Do you believe your wife is hurting too?
> 
> I understand your feelings because she isn't being honest and she didn't follow the agreed upon boundaries.
> 
> She most certainly isn't feeling very good herself.
> 
> You both need a safe way to open up and communicate about your feelings to get through this.


I'm going to be brutally honest here (as if I'm not always.....).

While I agree that she was dishonest and that is not ok, I might have done the same thing. If I felt like my hb was pimping me out for his jollies I might decide that it's going to be on my terms and I'm not going to be part of a peep show. My kids father liked me to tell him about other men doing stuff to me and that made me feel creepy and not valued.

I wouldn't go along with such an arrangement but that might be my thought process.


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## skerzoid

Uh....


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## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm going to be brutally honest here (as if I'm not always.....).
> 
> While I agree that she was dishonest and that is not ok, I might have done the same thing. If I felt like my hb was pimping me out for his jollies I might decide that it's going to be on my terms and I'm not going to be part of a peep show. My kids father liked me to tell him about other men doing stuff to me and that made me feel creepy and not valued.
> 
> I wouldn't go along with such an arrangement but that might be my thought process.


I'm not putting more of this on her than him but if she agreed to it, she agreed to it with the boundaries.

It definitely isn't for me. Mrs. C and I know better than to even suggest it but we know each other well.

This couple was together a long time before attempting this so she might have agreed, knowing herself and him, but decided to tweak his nose by altering the rules they agreed on but it did cause damage to her husband similarly, I'm sure she isn't too happy about the whole thing either.

I'm hoping the OP isn't a drive by and gives some more info so they can get help.


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## Lostinthought61

I am curious what kind of open conversation did you have with your wife before this even started?


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## ConanHub

@plastow ,
Are you still close with those friends?

Why not have an adult conversation with your buddy?


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## plastow

drencrom said:


> 50 years of marriage? You are wife swapping in your 70's????
> 
> Oy vey.


yes is there something wrong with people in their 70,s wanting more excitement in sex


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## Mr.Married

Maybe she secretly thought it was an awesome idea and didn’t want you to see how much she actually did enjoy it. If I were your wife I would probably do the same thing just to punish you for such an idea.

Do you still believe you have the hots to see your woman with another man? It’s almost laughable. When push came to shove your wife had more guts than you did.

Isn’t it awesome when you get what you want !

Some things though they may sound exciting as a fantasy...... should be left as only that.

A little common sense can go a long way.

I’m tempted to clap my hands for your wife.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it I hope my wife and I are swingers in our seventies.... that would mean I’m still getting it up 🤣🤣🤣


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## Anastasia6

plastow said:


> yes is there something wrong with people in their 70,s wanting more excitement in sex


No there is not.

however there are questions. You wanted to swap did she ? You said you talked her into it. Or did you badger her into it, make her feel she wasn’t enough?

you say you wanted to watch. So you wanted your own little show, did she actually want to be the center of attention? When you discussed being in the same room did she understand that was a boundary or just something you suggested?

you do understand you have freaked out and are acting like she’s to blame for something you wanted and now your feelings are hurt because she didn’t do exactly what you wanted. Have you asked her about how she feels?


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## drencrom

plastow said:


> yes is there something wrong with people in their 70,s wanting more excitement in sex


Its not about that. Someone waits 50 years when in their 70's to wife swap? You'd think all that time passed by it would have been a little more well thought out.


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## plastow

Lostinthought61 said:


> I am curious what kind of open conversation did you have with your wife before this even started?


i asked her if she would consider having sax with our pal.she got very upset at first but i kept on and it took several days before she came in to me and said she had given it a lot of thought and decided to have a go.which at the time i found incredibly exciting.if only i had not done so.


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## plastow

ConanHub said:


> @plastow ,
> Are you still close with those friends?
> 
> Why not have an adult conversation with your buddy?


we are still very close ive known him since i was 12 years old


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## plastow

drencrom said:


> Its not about that. Someone waits 50 years when in their 70's to wife swap? You'd think all that time passed by it would have been a little more well thought out.


no fool like an old fool i guess


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## Anastasia6

plastow said:


> i asked her if she would consider having sax with our pal.she got very upset at first but i kept on and it took several days before she came in to me and said she had given it a lot of thought and decided to have a go.which at the time i found incredibly exciting.if only i had not done so.


So you badgered her. That’s not how open relationships work.


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## Mr.Married

Wouldn’t you know YOURSELF better after that many years ?


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## Married but Happy

The deed is over and done, but consequences may be forever. As the event was a first for you both, I wonder if boundaries and scenarios were discussed beforehand, and if so, were they actually violated (or your unspoken expectations)? Anyway, you can still have unpleasant surprises even when you think you've prepared yourselves. At this point, finding a way to handle the ongoing pain is your only way forward, so counseling seems warranted.


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## Anastasia6

plastow said:


> i asked her if she would consider having sax with our pal.she got very upset at first but i kept on and it took several days before she came in to me and said she had given it a lot of thought and decided to have a go.which at the time i found incredibly exciting.if only i had not done so.


So after the badgering where she gave in. Did you discuss and agree to boundaries or did you just tell her how it was going to be after you pumped her out.


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## Anastasia6

If you are close to your buddy just ask him.

how has she been acting and reacting to you since this? I echo the comments that you showed your wife just how NOT special to you she is. It’s one thing to ask it’s another to repeatedly ask.


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## ConanHub

Anastasia6 said:


> If you are close to your buddy just ask him.


Seconded!

@plastow , what about it? How are your friends doing also?


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## EveningThoughts

Did your wife and the other couple know that there was a strict rule in place about both couples staying in the same room? Had you all agreed to this beforehand?

Do you feel that she ignored you when you called out?

Had she shown interest in watching you with the other woman?
Or could that sight have been too much for her, and shutting you/that view out of sight was a way of dealing with that?
Not many wives want to see their husband being intimate with another woman, and this could include the other wife who migh not have wanted same room sex as her husband.

As you pushed for this, I doubt your wife was all fired up on entering the room with the other guy. It would have been a slow dance. 
Did you leave them together for any length of time before calling a stop to it?

The hurt of feeling excluded from your very own fantasy with your wife must be quite painful.
I hope you can recover from this, but do you think getting more details is the route to your recovery?
If so, like has been said above, talk with your friend (assuming any alcohol consumed that night didn't blur the memories).


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## Diana7

plastow said:


> i asked her if she would consider having sax with our pal.she got very upset at first but i kept on and it took several days before she came in to me and said she had given it a lot of thought and decided to have a go.which at the time i found incredibly exciting.if only i had not done so.


So your wife was upset but you just badgered her until she agreed. I would have shown my husband the door if he did that. 
Sometimes I do despair at things people do.


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## LisaDiane

plastow said:


> this happened 7 years ago but is as painful today as it was then.i talked my wife into swapping with close pals just for the thrill of seeing her with another man .so i know its my fault.we were in their house all nervous and trying to make small talk when my wife said to the other guy come on lets start but he said he had to go to the toilet and i said likewise leaving the 2 women alone in the lounge.on returning the place was in darkness and my wife had gone into another room with the guy with the door shut.i called out you could have waited until i came back and we are supposed to stay in the same room.i felt excluded from my wife for the first time in 50 years of marriage.i tried to have some kind of sex with the other woman but could not stop thinking of what they may be doing alone in that room.my wife nor any of them understodd when i opened the door and told them to stop.which they did.we all sat in the lounge and all my wife would say was it was your idea.i kept repeating i wantd to be there with her not alone with another woman excluded from her .it took ages for me to recover from that but not after all this time i have repeated nightmares about what they may have done,when i ask my wife she says she does not remember and details which ive told her is rubbish as he was only the second man to have been to bed with her so she emembers well but wont talk it out with me*.it there any hope i will be able to forget this episode.*


NO. I don't think you will ever be able to forget this. It's called consequences.


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## syhoybenden

Congratulations on having taken a big stinking dump on 50 years of happy shared memories. Those stains are not going to come out.


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## CatholicDad

An idea born in porn if there ever was one…. I’d be wrecked too brother.

If so, your time would be better spent warning our other brothers about porn. The porn lie that sex is harmless fun- is so wrong. Maybe you can’t correct your mistake- but you can still help others.


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## BigDaddyNY

Play with fire, get burned. 

You won't ever forget that night. Also don't forget that this is all, and I mean all, your fault. Your wife holds less than 0 blame. In fact she should be totally pissed at you for bringing it up after 7 years or even putting her through it in the first place. I don't think you have any right whatsoever to be upset with her for not remembering. She probably wants nothing more than to completely forget about it. *You* *gave away your wife that had only ever been with you prior to this! *You had the golden ticket and crapped all over it, WTH man? 50 years married and you work over the course of several days to convince her. That means you had probably been thinking about it for a while prior. Again, WTH man? Then right in the middle of it all you burst in on them and tell them to stop. You put your wife through a completely unnecessary trauma.

Never bring this up to your wife again. You should be shouldering the entire burden of this mess. If it continues to eat at you then seek individual counseling.


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## seadoug105

drencrom said:


> 50 years of marriage? You are wife swapping in your 70's????


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## DownByTheRiver

ConanHub said:


> I'm not putting more of this on her than him but if she agreed to it, she agreed to it with the boundaries.
> 
> It definitely isn't for me. Mrs. C and I know better than to even suggest it but we know each other well.
> 
> This couple was together a long time before attempting this so she might have agreed, knowing herself and him, but decided to tweak his nose by altering the rules they agreed on but it did cause damage to her husband similarly, I'm sure she isn't too happy about the whole thing either.
> 
> I'm hoping the OP isn't a drive by and gives some more info so they can get help.


He's who was insisting. I see no reason why she has to adhere to his stupid boundaries. He had no idea what he was doing there, obviously trying to live out his own personal fantasy and things blew up on him, like they usually do with pimping out your wife!! She could have his ass arrested if she wanted to. She hasn't committed any crime.


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## BigDaddyNY

DownByTheRiver said:


> He's who was insisting. I see no reason why she has to adhere to his stupid boundaries. He had no idea what he was doing there, obviously trying to live out his own personal fantasy and things blew up on him, like they usually do with pimping out your wife!! She could have his ass arrested if she wanted to. She hasn't committed any crime.


I am completely incapable of grasping why a man would want to loan out his wife to another man. I struggle sometimes when thinking about my wife's past partners from before we met, so the mere thought of another man being sexually intimate with my wife now is absolutely gut wrenching. This guy married a virgin then proceeded to give her to another man after 50 years of marriage, holy crap!

And I'm with you, this guy had no clue what he was doing. There may have been some mention of how it was to go down, but I'm confident there were no clear boundaries set. The fact that he was calling out to them from behind a closed door at the start of this fiasco tells me nothing was properly discussed. If he had hard boundaries he would have opened that door the second he knew they were in there.

All he was thinking was I'm going to get to see my wife getting laid while I bang this other woman to boot, straight out of some porn scene. He badgered his wife into it over the course of a few days, probably getting off to the fantasy in his head. Not much was really put into the planning so what was really going to happen wasn't thought out. His wife disappears into another room and reality sets in. He had an opportunity to end it right there, but he didn't have the guts to stop it right then and there. He figures he might as well do the other guy's wife. Unfortunately the thought of his wife that gave him her virginly and loyalty of 50 years was now getting it good from his friend made him go soft and it all came crashing down. This was so predictable, but he definitely wasn't thinking with the right head.


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## hairyhead

You've made your bed, now you have to lie in it.


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## ConanHub

DownByTheRiver said:


> He's who was insisting. I see no reason why she has to adhere to his stupid boundaries. He had no idea what he was doing there, obviously trying to live out his own personal fantasy and things blew up on him, like they usually do with pimping out your wife!! She could have his ass arrested if she wanted to. She hasn't committed any crime.


I actually don't think you read this. He kept asking, he didn't force her and she agreed. I think they are both more than old enough to own it.

Her choosing to have sex with another man isn't a crime on her part or his for asking for it.

It's a legally protected activity no one could be arrested for.

He damaged himself, and probably her, by asking. She damaged him, and probably herself, by going through with it and not keeping her agreement though these are just details as I really am not pointing a finger at her for this mess.


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## Tested_by_stress

plastow said:


> i asked her if she would consider having sax with our pal.she got very upset at first but i kept on and it took several days before she came in to me and said she had given it a lot of thought and decided to have a go.which at the time i found incredibly exciting.if only i had not done so.


This is a case of getting *exactly* what you asked for.


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## ConanHub

Tested_by_stress said:


> This is a case of getting *exactly* what you asked for.


I get the impression he knows that.

Do you think they could use some couples therapy?

I don't see them splitting as it's been 7 years and they've been together forever.


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## ConanHub

BigDaddyNY said:


> Play with fire, get burned.
> 
> You won't ever forget that night. Also don't forget that this is all, and I mean all, your fault. Your wife holds less than 0 blame. In fact she should be totally pissed at you for bringing it up after 7 years or even putting her through it in the first place. I don't think you have any right whatsoever to be upset with her for not remembering. She probably wants nothing more than to completely forget about it. *You* *gave away your wife that had only ever been with you prior to this! *You had the golden ticket and crapped all over it, WTH man? 50 years married and you work over the course of several days to convince her. That means you had probably been thinking about it for a while prior. Again, WTH man? Then right in the middle of it all you burst in on them and tell them to stop. You put your wife through a completely unnecessary trauma.
> 
> Never bring this up to your wife again. You should be shouldering the entire burden of this mess. If it continues to eat at you then seek individual counseling.


While I definitely agree with the sentiments here, she was a very big girl and made a choice as well.

I don't blame her for her reactions at all but regardless of who caused the problem (him) there is something to work through now and she might have to be a part of that the same way a betrayed spouse has to work to repair the damage caused by the wayward spouse.


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## happyhusband0005

plastow said:


> this happened 7 years ago but is as painful today as it was then.i talked my wife into swapping with close pals just for the thrill of seeing her with another man .so i know its my fault.we were in their house all nervous and trying to make small talk when my wife said to the other guy come on lets start but he said he had to go to the toilet and i said likewise leaving the 2 women alone in the lounge.on returning the place was in darkness and my wife had gone into another room with the guy with the door shut.i called out you could have waited until i came back and we are supposed to stay in the same room.i felt excluded from my wife for the first time in 50 years of marriage.i tried to have some kind of sex with the other woman but could not stop thinking of what they may be doing alone in that room.my wife nor any of them understodd when i opened the door and told them to stop.which they did.we all sat in the lounge and all my wife would say was it was your idea.i kept repeating i wantd to be there with her not alone with another woman excluded from her .it took ages for me to recover from that but not after all this time i have repeated nightmares about what they may have done,when i ask my wife she says she does not remember and details which ive told her is rubbish as he was only the second man to have been to bed with her so she emembers well but wont talk it out with me.it there any hope i will be able to forget this episode.


If I had to offer a guess it would be she wasn't super enthusiastic about the idea and kind of made you live out the old careful what you wish for ideal. This is a fairly typical situation. She did disrespect the boundaries that were preset which is a major no no in these situations and almost always leads to big problems which you are seeing now. To be able to move past this you are going to need a counselor to help you both communicate properly on the issue. 

Of course she remembers in detail what took place, unless there was a fair bit of alcohol involved in that case things could actually be a little fuzzy for her. You will need to be able to really communicate about this and get the full details before you can get to a place that you will stop obsessing over it. If that is not possible you should get some individual counseling to work on accepting you may never get the full details and decide what that means for you. 

Keep in mind, she did break the rules but you did "talk her into it" to begin with. So careful what you wish for.


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## SunCMars

plastow said:


> no fool like an old fool i guess


An old fool that lost more than a few marbles along the journey!

What possessed you to do such a thing?

While, I have a cosmic idea, I need to hear it from your perspective.

As others have suggested, this (primarily) and likely came from viewing porn.
And (secondarily), came from a nudge from.....


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## Mr.Married

hairyhead said:


> You've made your bed, now you have to lie in it.


You misspelled die.


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## LATERILUS79

Sooooo…. My take on this is that it sounds like she REALLY didn’t want to do this. At all. I feel like maybe she didn’t realize how important the boundaries were that you set up. Maybe she really wasn’t paying attention because you had to badger her about it. Even the words she said when you guys got there (before you went to the bathroom). Sounds like she wanted to get this over with as quickly as possible and that was all that was on her mind.

I don’t know man. I get you had boundaries, but you had to push her to do this in the first place.


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## SunCMars

Thank you for sharing.

TAM's cooking pot was getting low, and your 7 year old leftover regrets still have some teachable flavor.


_Lilith-_


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## Tested_by_stress

ConanHub said:


> I get the impression he knows that.
> 
> Do you think they could use some couples therapy?
> 
> I don't see them splitting as it's been 7 years and they've been together forever.


 couple's therapy? Maybe
IC for him? Definitely! 
He found out, you can't unopen Pandora's box . So now, he must learn to live with it.


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## DownByTheRiver

ConanHub said:


> I actually don't think you read this. He kept asking, he didn't force her and she agreed. I think they are both more than old enough to own it.
> 
> Her choosing to have sex with another man isn't a crime on her part or his for asking for it.
> 
> It's a legally protected activity no one could be arrested for.
> 
> He damaged himself, and probably her, by asking. She damaged him, and probably herself, by going through with it and not keeping her agreement though these are just details as I really am not pointing a finger at her for this mess.


Just because I don't share someone's opinion doesn't mean I'm not reading the post. Have you ever heard a judge's instruction to jurors letting them know it's up to them how much credibility they give the witness's testimony? I often decide someone isn't very credible and may be trying to place themselves in the best light.


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## Tasorundo

Can you not ask your friend what he did with her?


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## MattMatt

@plastow What are we to do with you? The old saying was "Put you in a bag and shake you up!"  

I would suggest individual counselling for yourself. Look, you have been beating yourself up for the past seven years and at a time which should be your golden years, that is not good.

After individual counselling I'd suggest counselling as a couple if you both agree to that idea.

How about a nice holiday together? Birmingham's nice. It has more canals than Venice, so there is that in its favour. Or if my home city doesn't hold any allure for you, the Devonshire coast is nice.


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## ConanHub

DownByTheRiver said:


> Just because I don't share someone's opinion doesn't mean I'm not reading the post. Have you ever heard a judge's instruction to jurors letting them know it's up to them how much credibility they give the witness's testimony? I often decide someone isn't very credible and may be trying to place themselves in the best light.


I guess I'm interested in why you think she can have him arrested?

I didn't accuse her of a crime either but you mentioned both?

Are you being literal?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

DownByTheRiver said:


> He's who was insisting. I see no reason why she has to adhere to his stupid boundaries. He had no idea what he was doing there, obviously trying to live out his own personal fantasy and things blew up on him, like they usually do with pimping out your wife!! She could have his ass arrested if she wanted to. She hasn't committed any crime.


How could she have him arrested, for what? 

Now, yes, I believe the whole thing is screwy but at 70yo, they are entitled to whatever floats their boat.

But really, arrested for what?


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## DownByTheRiver

ConanHub said:


> I guess I'm interested in why you think she can have him arrested?
> 
> I didn't accuse her of a crime either but you mentioned both?
> 
> Are you being literal?


It depends. It depends if he's telling the truth about her actually consenting to this or not, it depends if there's a history of abuse, it depends if she is completely competent mentally or if there has been some degeneration. My point is that I don't believe she did anything wrong and that he bears all the responsibility here because it was all his idea. Instead he's focusing on the details because he didn't get his rocks off.


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## jsmart

BigDaddyNY said:


> I am completely incapable of grasping why a man would want to loan out his wife to another man. *I struggle sometimes when thinking about my wife's past partners from before we met, so the mere thought of another man being sexually intimate with my wife now is absolutely gut wrenching.* *This guy married a virgin then proceeded to give her to another man* *after 50 years of marriage, *holy crap!


Wow, I co-sign to this post. His wife of 50 years and I’m sure the mother of his kids, who no other man knew was not enough. I’m sure his wife left this incident emotionally hurt as well.


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## ConanHub

DownByTheRiver said:


> It depends. It depends if he's telling the truth about her actually consenting to this or not, it depends if there's a history of abuse, it depends if she is completely competent mentally or if there has been some degeneration. My point is that I don't believe she did anything wrong and that he bears all the responsibility here because it was all his idea. Instead he's focusing on the details because he didn't get his rocks off.


Ok but that is going off pure speculation as he said he didn't care about getting off but he couldn't handle her being separated in a different room and the lack of knowledge, along with whatever internal junk he is dealing with, is what's eating him. It is mostly his fault unless he is lying but we only have his information to go on.

You might as well just call him a liar because you know what happened more than him.

There are many posts I wonder about but I usually ask questions to see if information comes out.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

DownByTheRiver said:


> It depends. It depends if he's telling the truth about her actually consenting to this or not, it depends if there's a history of abuse, it depends if she is completely competent mentally or if there has been some degeneration. My point is that I don't believe she did anything wrong and that he bears all the responsibility here because it was all his idea. Instead he's focusing on the details because he didn't get his rocks off.


So it depends if he did something illegal other than has been shared. 

That could apply to any and every post here.


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## Benbutton

plastow said:


> this happened 7 years ago but is as painful today as it was then.i talked my wife into swapping with close pals just for the thrill of seeing her with another man .so i know its my fault.we were in their house all nervous and trying to make small talk when my wife said to the other guy come on lets start but he said he had to go to the toilet and i said likewise leaving the 2 women alone in the lounge.on returning the place was in darkness and my wife had gone into another room with the guy with the door shut.i called out you could have waited until i came back and we are supposed to stay in the same room.i felt excluded from my wife for the first time in 50 years of marriage.i tried to have some kind of sex with the other woman but could not stop thinking of what they may be doing alone in that room.my wife nor any of them understodd when i opened the door and told them to stop.which they did.we all sat in the lounge and all my wife would say was it was your idea.i kept repeating i wantd to be there with her not alone with another woman excluded from her .it took ages for me to recover from that but not after all this time i have repeated nightmares about what they may have done,when i ask my wife she says she does not remember and details which ive told her is rubbish as he was only the second man to have been to bed with her so she emembers well but wont talk it out with me.it there any hope i will be able to forget this episode.


Nope. Some things are beyond getting past.


----------



## manwithnoname

plastow said:


> .*on returning the place was in darkness and my wife had gone into another room with the guy with the door shut.i called out you could have waited until i came back and we are supposed to stay in the same room.i felt excluded from my wife for the first time in 50 years of marriage.i tried to have some kind of sex with the other woman but could not stop thinking of what they may be doing alone in that room.my wife nor any of them understodd when i opened the door and told them to stop.which they did.*


 What were you able to do with the other woman? How long were they going at it? Did it appear she was enjoying it more than with you? 

If she was otherwise just going through the motions because of your ill advised fetish, then I don't think it would be bothering you as much as it is. If he was pounding her like you never could, you'll never get over it.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> I actually don't think you read this. He kept asking, he didn't force her and she agreed. I think they are both more than old enough to own it.
> 
> Her choosing to have sex with another man isn't a crime on her part or his for asking for it.
> 
> It's a legally protected activity no one could be arrested for.
> 
> He damaged himself, and probably her, by asking. She damaged him, and probably herself, by going through with it and not keeping her agreement though these are just details as I really am not pointing a finger at her for this mess.


She was upset when he asked her. He ignored the fact that his wife of 50 years was upset and kept badgering her. Ok maybe that isn't forcing her exactly, but it was definitely pressuring her when she clearly felt let down by him. 
Sadly she didn't stand up to him and resist the pressure, maybe she knew him and knew he wouldn't give up until she gave in, who knows, but the responsibility largely lies with him and as I see it he has no right to expect her to give a blow by blow account as if she had cheated on him. 

This is a very sad story but a good example of why faithfulness is so very important. It's hard to know why he thought that this would in anyway be a good idea.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

plastow said:


> _*yes is there something wrong with people in their 70,s wanting more excitement in sex*_



Apparently, there is for *you*.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> She was upset when he asked her. He ignored the fact that his wife of 50 years was upset and kept badgering her. Ok maybe that isn't forcing her exactly, but it was definitely pressuring her when she clearly felt let down by him.
> Sadly she didn't stand up to him and resist the pressure, maybe she knew him and knew he wouldn't give up until she gave in, who knows, but the responsibility largely lies with him and as I see it he has no right to expect her to give a blow by blow account as if she had cheated on him.
> 
> This is a very sad story but a good example of why faithfulness is so very important. It's hard to know why he thought that this would in anyway be a good idea.


Yeah. I'm not letting him off the hook but knowing what was going on with each other was what they agreed to.

I'm advising therapy and couples therapy because it's obvious they aren't divorcing at this late stage.


----------



## Evinrude58

Married 50 years and wanted to watch his loyal wife bang his buddy.
Pissed because she did it and he didn’t get to watch……???????

Can’t get my head around the desire, stupidity, and impossibility of the whole event.


----------



## Mr.Married

Just as an observation I noticed he didn’t say anything about his wife being angry after the event. It’s possible the only thing she is upset about is being interrupted and there might be the real issue for him.


----------



## Benbutton

plastow said:


> yes is there something wrong with people in their 70,s wanting more excitement in sex


Ummmm....I think you answered your own question.


----------



## MattMatt

Benbutton said:


> Ummmm....I think you answered your own question.


There's nothing wrong with people in their 70s wanting more excitement in sex.

But how you go about that might be a problem.


----------



## frusdil

Honestly, if my husband even suggested this to me, I would be heartbroken. I know that's not helpful here, in advising OP, but I honestly don't know what else to say.


----------



## oldshirt

My take on this is this is what happens when a university freshman physics major decides it would be fun to make an atomic bomb.


----------



## jonty30

frusdil said:


> Honestly, if my husband even suggested this to me, I would be heartbroken. I know that's not helpful here, in advising OP, but I honestly don't know what else to say.


Not to mention the very real risk of her finding somebody considerably more pleasurable than the husband.
I don't understand why any man would take that risk.


----------



## jonty30

plastow said:


> this happened 7 years ago but is as painful today as it was then.i talked my wife into swapping with close pals just for the thrill of seeing her with another man .so i know its my fault.we were in their house all nervous and trying to make small talk when my wife said to the other guy come on lets start but he said he had to go to the toilet and i said likewise leaving the 2 women alone in the lounge.on returning the place was in darkness and my wife had gone into another room with the guy with the door shut.i called out you could have waited until i came back and we are supposed to stay in the same room.i felt excluded from my wife for the first time in 50 years of marriage.i tried to have some kind of sex with the other woman but could not stop thinking of what they may be doing alone in that room.my wife nor any of them understodd when i opened the door and told them to stop.which they did.we all sat in the lounge and all my wife would say was it was your idea.i kept repeating i wantd to be there with her not alone with another woman excluded from her .it took ages for me to recover from that but not after all this time i have repeated nightmares about what they may have done,when i ask my wife she says she does not remember and details which ive told her is rubbish as he was only the second man to have been to bed with her so she emembers well but wont talk it out with me.it there any hope i will be able to forget this episode.


Your wife wants you to forget about it, that's why she doesn't want to talk about it. 
She can't forget, but that isn't her fault. It was you that insisted on swapping her.
You'll just have to live and learn from it.


----------



## jsmart

frusdil said:


> Honestly, if my husband even suggested this to me, I would be heartbroken. I know that's not helpful here, in advising OP, but I honestly don't know what else to say.


Actually this post can help OP understand what may have gone through his wife’s mind. I hope it helps other men who may be contemplating what OP did. We men learn a lot when female TAMers give us an unfiltered glimpse into how women really think on subjects like this. So many men’s minds are being warped by porn to think that a woman wants to be shared or swapped.


----------



## Tasorundo

Really though, in 7 years, he hasn't asked his BFF about what happened? It really makes no sense to me.


----------



## pastasauce79

plastow said:


> yes is there something wrong with people in their 70,s wanting more excitement in sex


Excitement is one thing, swapping is another. 

After 7 years, how's your relationship with your wife? How's sex with your wife.


----------



## frusdil

jsmart said:


> Actually this post can help OP understand what may have gone through his wife’s mind. I hope it helps other men who may be contemplating what OP did. We men learn a lot when female TAMers give us an unfiltered glimpse into how women really think on subjects like this. So many men’s minds are being warped by porn to think that a woman wants to be shared or swapped.


Thankyou, I certainly hope so


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> My take on this is this is what happens when a university freshman physics major decides it would be fun to make an atomic bomb.


Since it is against the rules to call out suspected trolls, let's take the assumption this is all a true story. 

That means one of a couple things have taken place here. 

One is that after 50 years of marriage, both have become galactically irresponsible and naive almost to the point of there being some concern for dementia or some other impairment of congnitive function. 

Or this was not as blissful and healthy of a golden anniversary as being presented. In other words does he have a history of badgering her into doing something so dumb potentially destructive and does she have a history of being passive aggressive to the point going ahead and screwing Earl just to teach the old koot a lesson? 

Don'tcha think after 50 years of marriage they would have developed enough mutual respect and reverence for each other that he wouldn't be pressuring and badgering her into something as hairbrained as this and wouldn't she have the ability to tell him it was a cockamamie idea and to quit getting ideas from porn if she in fact did not want to screw ol' Earl? 

And if she did want to screw Ol' Earl, wouldn't they have come up with a better game plan and even if it was a weak game plan, wouldn't they have stuck to it better than running off to behind closed doors the moment he went to the bathroom? I mean people do go to the bathroom periodically. Are we to believe the whole world came crashing down because some guy went to the jon? 

And if he wanted to play as a group together, why not just say so from the beginning and do that? 

I spent almost 10 years in the swinging lifestyle. Yes there are 70 year old swingers out there. But they all had a lot more sense than this. I did see some whackadoodle things over the years. But almost all of it was due too much alcohol, too much porn and too much testosterone ; but way too little communication between partners and wwaaaaaaaayyyyy too little common sense. 

Assuming this story is true, there is a lot more history of dysfunction and disrespect and nutty behavior in this marriage than one night of trying to play grabass with some old friends out of the blue.


----------



## oldshirt

jonty30 said:


> Your wife wants you to forget about it, that's why she doesn't want to talk about it.
> She can't forget, but that isn't her fault. It was you that insisted on swapping her.
> You'll just have to live and learn from it.


Unless this story is actually true and some early dementia is kicking in.


----------



## Cromer

frusdil said:


> Honestly, if my husband even suggested this to me, I would be heartbroken. I know that's not helpful here, in advising OP, but I honestly don't know what else to say.


I can only imagine what it must be like from a woman's perspective if her man wanted her to do something like this.

My wife is not the most assertive person. It's a long story but early on in our relationship, she told me the story about when her ex-husband basically coerced her into having sex with a stranger while he watched. No way in Hell would I ask my woman to do anything like that and I reassured her that I'm not that guy. I'm not shaming kink but it's just not something I'd remotely consider doing. I could barely handle my ex-wife admitting to her affairs.

My wife remembers every detail and it was painful for her to talk about it but she wanted me to know. I can see how she went along with the situation, she loved her ex and wanted to keep her family together. He spent a long time trying to convince her to do a hotwife/Queen of Spades situation, then basically "ambushed" her into doing it. It was a traumatizing event for her. She finally decided to leave her ex after this happened. She was in therapy for years because of this and other reasons. My wife tells me she finally feels "safe" and I do my best to keep her so.

What's done is done, but OP you need therapy. Your wife probably does as well.

Edited: When I say my wife is not the most assertive person, I recognize this and have gone to great lengths to make sure that I get to her true feelings. Frankly, she fears rejection and that she would be rejected because of something she thinks or has done. This is a result of events long embedded in her past. Thankfully she has really blossomed in the past year and now has an IDGF attitude when talking about her opinions/feelings. I LOVE it!


----------



## Elise2022

plastow said:


> this happened 7 years ago but is as painful today as it was then.i talked my wife into swapping with close pals just for the thrill of seeing her with another man .so i know its my fault.we were in their house all nervous and trying to make small talk when my wife said to the other guy come on lets start but he said he had to go to the toilet and i said likewise leaving the 2 women alone in the lounge.on returning the place was in darkness and my wife had gone into another room with the guy with the door shut.i called out you could have waited until i came back and we are supposed to stay in the same room.i felt excluded from my wife for the first time in 50 years of marriage.i tried to have some kind of sex with the other woman but could not stop thinking of what they may be doing alone in that room.my wife nor any of them understodd when i opened the door and told them to stop.which they did.we all sat in the lounge and all my wife would say was it was your idea.i kept repeating i wantd to be there with her not alone with another woman excluded from her .it took ages for me to recover from that but not after all this time i have repeated nightmares about what they may have done,when i ask my wife she says she does not remember and details which ive told her is rubbish as he was only the second man to have been to bed with her so she emembers well but wont talk it out with me.it there any hope i will be able to forget this episode.


You start the nightmare！


----------



## Young at Heart

plastow said:


> ..........i talked my wife into swapping with close pals just for the thrill of seeing her with another man.....
> 
> .....my wife had gone into another room with the guy with the door shut.*i called out you could have waited until i came back and we are supposed to stay in the same room.i felt excluded from my wife for the first time in 50 years of marriage*.
> 
> .....i tried to have some kind of sex with the other woman but could not stop thinking of what they may be doing alone in that room.*my wife nor any of them understodd when i opened the door and told them to stop.which they did.we all sat in the lounge and all my wife would say was it was your idea.i kept repeating i wantd to be there with her* not alone with another woman excluded from her .
> 
> .... *i have repeated nightmares about what they may have done,*when i ask my wife she says she does not remember and details which ive told her is rubbish as *he was only the second man to have been to bed with* her so she emembers well but wont talk it out with me.it there *any hope i will be able to forget this episode*.


A few thoughts. You have gotten a lot of interesting advice. First, you know what you did was a mistake. That at least is a good start. You probably will need therapy to work through your nightmares, etc. This may even rise to the level of PTSD needing serious therapy. If so it is really your problem and you need to own it and deal with it.

You and your wife are grown adults and get to make your own decisions and mistakes, but you also need to live with the consequences of your actions, repent for your mistakes, learn from them and move on with your life.

Have you ever apologized to your wife? Have you told her how truly sorry you are that you were the one that suggested this? Have you asked your wife for forgiveness? Based on your post your wife probably went through with this because she thought it was important to you, not because she wanted it.

The thing that jumps out at me is how totally unprepared you were in initiating this "adventure." You clearly had some kind of "mental porn script" in mind that you wanted to see your wife act out for your visual or voyeuristic enjoyment. You didn't role play it before you jumped into the deep end of the pool. There were no well established boundaries. You didn't have a safe word. Instead you barged in on your wife and your "friend." God that must have been embarrassing for your wife? 

The other couple must have really had some interesting conversations about that night. Have you ever apologized to them and asked their forgiveness? Speaking of which in your mental script you wanted your wife to portray, clearly didn't include the other man's wife and you, now did it? Why a swap when an MFM with your wife the center of action was what you seemed to really want? That poor woman, she must have felt terrible.

Another thing that jumps out at me is why do you want to know the details? It is done, it was a mistake that you admit, let it go. If you can't, then get some individual therapy. 

What do you hope to learn? Do you want to know if they used a condom? Do you want to know what positions they were going to have sex in? Do you want to know how he treated her? Do you want to know if she acted like a ****? Or do you want to know if she was willing to do things with him that she has never done with you? If this really is something that you can't let go of mentally, you need to do some serious introspection to figure out what you hope to learn and how that could ever make your life better. During that introspection, you might also ask yourself if once you learn what you seem to need to know, if that knowledge will do even more damage to your mind. Remember, you thought and talked her into have sex with a "friend" and that turned out to be a mistake. Perhaps talking her into telling you all the details will be an even bigger mistake.

I am reminded of the line from the movie Dirty Harry, where Detective Callahan asks the robber, "*Do* *you* *feel* *lucky*?" Ask yourself before you try to talk your wife into telling you more if you feel lucky based on the last time you talked her into something she didn't want to do.

My suggestion is to ask your wife for forgiveness and apologize to her. Tell her you are going to drop the subject and that you may need to do some individual therapy to work through how embarrassed you are about your behavior.

Good luck.

P.S. This is a good teaching moment, rather than doing what you did on impulse with no real gradual exploration or clear boundaries and safe word, you could of some other person possibly thinking about the same thing could have stopped with a bit of role playing between you and your wife. There is an interesting TED talk video entitled Monogomish that might provide some guidance to anyone else who wants to try something like this. Monogomish TED Talk Another valuable lesson is that some fantasies should not become a reality.


----------



## Talker67

i guess i am not getting why now, 7 years later, this is a big deal?

has she been on ashley madison trying to find new 70 year old studs to boff?

If not, it is just water under the bridge at this point. stop thinking about it.

And don't be clicking on any porn hub videos that title "my wife and my best friend".....


----------



## Mr.Married

When it comes to swinging ya never really hear the phrase “I wanted to see my husband with another woman.”
Those husband swap stories just aren’t as popular!


----------



## jonty30

Mr.Married said:


> When it comes to swinging ya never really hear the phrase “I wanted to see my husband with another woman.”
> Those husband swap stories just aren’t as popular!


However, how many men have said that their wives just won't share their fantasies with them?


----------



## ConanHub

Young at Heart said:


> A few thoughts. You have gotten a lot of interesting advice. First, you know what you did was a mistake. That at least is a good start. You probably will need therapy to work through your nightmares, etc. This may even rise to the level of PTSD needing serious therapy. If so it is really your problem and you need to own it and deal with it.
> 
> You and your wife are grown adults and get to make your own decisions and mistakes, but you also need to live with the consequences of your actions, repent for your mistakes, learn from them and move on with your life.
> 
> Have you ever apologized to your wife? Have you told her how truly sorry you are that you were the one that suggested this? Have you asked your wife for forgiveness? Based on your post your wife probably went through with this because she thought it was important to you, not because she wanted it.
> 
> The thing that jumps out at me is how totally unprepared you were in initiating this "adventure." You clearly had some kind of "mental porn script" in mind that you wanted to see your wife act out for your visual or voyeuristic enjoyment. You didn't role play it before you jumped into the deep end of the pool. There were no well established boundaries. You didn't have a safe word. Instead you barged in on your wife and your "friend." God that must have been embarrassing for your wife?
> 
> The other couple must have really had some interesting conversations about that night. Have you ever apologized to them and asked their forgiveness? Speaking of which in your mental script you wanted your wife to portray, clearly didn't include the other man's wife and you, now did it? Why a swap when an MFM with your wife the center of action was what you seemed to really want? That poor woman, she must have felt terrible.
> 
> Another thing that jumps out at me is why do you want to know the details? It is done, it was a mistake that you admit, let it go. If you can't, then get some individual therapy.
> 
> What do you hope to learn? Do you want to know if they used a condom? Do you want to know what positions they were going to have sex in? Do you want to know how he treated her? Do you want to know if she acted like a ****? Or do you want to know if she was willing to do things with him that she has never done with you? If this really is something that you can't let go of mentally, you need to do some serious introspection to figure out what you hope to learn and how that could ever make your life better. During that introspection, you might also ask yourself if once you learn what you seem to need to know, if that knowledge will do even more damage to your mind. Remember, you thought and talked her into have sex with a "friend" and that turned out to be a mistake. Perhaps talking her into telling you all the details will be an even bigger mistake.
> 
> I am reminded of the line from the movie Dirty Harry, where Detective Callahan asks the robber, "*Do* *you* *feel* *lucky*?" Ask yourself before you try to talk your wife into telling you more if you feel lucky based on the last time you talked her into something she didn't want to do.
> 
> My suggestion is to ask your wife for forgiveness and apologize to her. Tell her you are going to drop the subject and that you may need to do some individual therapy to work through how embarrassed you are about your behavior.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> P.S. This is a good teaching moment, rather than doing what you did on impulse with no real gradual exploration or clear boundaries and safe word, you could of some other person possibly thinking about the same thing could have stopped with a bit of role playing between you and your wife. There is an interesting TED talk video entitled Monogomish that might provide some guidance to anyone else who wants to try something like this. Monogomish TED Talk Another valuable lesson is that some fantasies should not become a reality.


I really like this well thought out post.

Ignoring and blocking the event has possibly made it worse however and he may need to be able to talk with his wife about it to work through it.

I believe there is a very high probability that this is more about the loss of transparency in their marriage than anything else.


----------



## ConanHub

jonty30 said:


> Not to mention the very real risk of her finding somebody considerably more pleasurable than the husband.
> I don't understand why any man would take that risk.


Nobody's better than me but I don't share.😉😋


----------



## jonty30

ConanHub said:


> Nobody's better than me but I don't share.😉😋


Jonty30>Nobody>ConanHUb

I'm not trying to brag, but being with me is better than being with nobody.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

ConanHub said:


> Nobody's better than me but I don't share.😉😋


Beat me to it.

Huzzah!!


----------



## Blondilocks

It seems you were trying to get closer to your best bud than your wife when you cooked up this disaster. Why don't you assume your pal did everything he's ever seen in porn and leave it at that. Is wanting to know exactly what they did a second-hand way to get your jollies still since you were denied the visual? 

Leave your wife alone. You've done enough damage.


----------



## oldshirt

Mr.Married said:


> When it comes to swinging ya never really hear the phrase “I wanted to see my husband with another woman.”
> Those husband swap stories just aren’t as popular!


Oh it definitely happens. 

My wife was very much into voyeurism and did do a Hot Husband fantasy (yay me!! 😃) 

Women are just a lot smarter about it and not as likely to blab about it publicly and not as likely to let their porn visions completely override any vestige of common sense. 

Also, if a wife does say she wants to do a Hot Husband fantasy, a lot of men will fall all over themselves to make it happen and will be ok with it so it is much less likely to cause problems to where they show up on a marriage forum or an MC’s office. 

But the thing that separates that from this OP’s situation is I don’t see where the OP had the least bit of forethought, effective communication, preparation or research into risks and potential pitfalls of nonmonogamy whatsoever. 

We’re not supposed to call out suspected trolls so we’ll have to go with the OP and his wife being terribly irresponsible and shortsighted.


----------



## rugswept

You shot your marriage at point blank with a shotgun and now it's dead. Surprise. 
There's no reason to hold your W to some fake standard when you have none. 

For truly monogamous couples, there is almost always a physical inhibition to involvement with others. It's a tough line for many to cross. 

You pushed her into it and she finally took you up on it. Maybe she wasn't into public sex for all to see and she took it private. 

You did this and you got what you had coming.


----------



## wmn1

exactly !!!

Jsmart hit the nail on the head above


----------



## Diana7

I think it's really sad that a lot of people will agree to do something really crazy and foolish like this if their spouse wants it. I guess as in this case some pressure is often needed but it's a shame that one of the spouses hasn't got some common sense to stand up to something that is clearly so damaging to the marriage.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> I think it's really sad that a lot of people will agree to do something really crazy and foolish like this if their spouse wants it. I guess as in this case some pressure is often needed but it's a shame that one of the spouses hasn't got some common sense to stand up to something that is clearly so damaging to the marriage.


Yup. If my Mrs. ever brought it up, there would be a resounding hell no followed by a reevaluation of our marriage. I wouldn't immediately go volcanic on her but she would have some explaining to do.


----------



## re16

I think OP needs to apologize for putting her in that situation, then apologize again for stewing over it and letting it effect him.

He created this situation and he needs to own it by packing it up in his mind and never letting it effect their relationship again.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ConanHub said:


> Yup. If my Mrs. ever brought it up, there would be a resounding hell no followed by a reevaluation of our marriage. I wouldn't immediately go volcanic on her but she would have some explaining to do.


My sentiments exactly. She would need one hell of an explanation to keep me from being gone. Lots of questions. Why would you want me to have sex with another woman? Why in the world would I want to have sex with another woman. Why do you want to have sex with another man? Are you already sexually attracted to another man? Are you already having an affair with him? Are you insane or something? I wouldn't even be interested in bringing in another woman, one is plenty lol. I'm for her only and she is for me only, period.


----------



## ConanHub

re16 said:


> I think OP needs to apologize for putting her in that situation, then apologize again for stewing over it and letting it effect him.
> 
> He created this situation and he needs to own it by packing it up in his mind and never letting it effect their relationship again.


You, know, I get the sentiment but this is terrible mental health advice. 

If you don't want OP and his marriage to get a shot at health again, this is great advice.

Edit:. The first part of your post about apologizing and accepting responsibility is great.

The second part about continuing to rugsweep a very real problem will continue to do damage.


----------



## wmn1

ConanHub said:


> I get the impression he knows that.
> 
> Do you think they could use some couples therapy?
> 
> I don't see them splitting as it's been 7 years and they've been together forever.


I agree Conan


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Yup. If my Mrs. ever brought it up, there would be a resounding hell no followed by a reevaluation of our marriage. I wouldn't immediately go volcanic on her but she would have some explaining to do.


Me too. One spouse asking would shake many marriages.


----------



## lifeistooshort

ConanHub said:


> Yup. If my Mrs. ever brought it up, there would be a resounding hell no followed by a reevaluation of our marriage. I wouldn't immediately go volcanic on her but she would have some explaining to do.


I can't imagine my SO suggesting or going along with something like this, and if he did either I don't think I'd look at him the same way.

I'd expect him to see me differently too if I pulled something like this.


----------



## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> I can't imagine my SO suggesting or going along with something like this, and if he did either I don't think I'd look at him the same way.
> 
> I'd expect him to see me differently too if I pulled something like this.


Yeah. It's not exactly anything less than a nuclear subject except for those who went into a relationship knowing their partner at least talked about it.

It would be interesting if OP would keep posting and answer more questions.

I'm curious if 7 years ago was the first time he asked or the subject was even talked about?


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> One spouse asking would shake many marriages.





ConanHub said:


> Yup. If my Mrs. ever brought it up, there would be a resounding hell no followed by a reevaluation of our marriage. I wouldn't immediately go volcanic on her but she would have some explaining to do.





BigDaddyNY said:


> My sentiments exactly. She would need one hell of an explanation to keep me from being gone. Lots of questions. Why would you want me to have sex with another woman? Why in the world would I want to have sex with another woman. Why do you want to have sex with another man? Are you already sexually attracted to another man? Are you already having an affair with him? Are you insane or something? I wouldn't even be interested in bringing in another woman, one is plenty lol. I'm for her only and she is for me only, period.


I’m going to spin this off into another thread so as not to thread jack, but with all this posturing and threats of leaving and damaging marriages over a question leads me to pose this question of my own - Shouldn’t married couples be able to ask each other questions??

If one is going to stomp out in a huff because their partner asked them a question or asked if they wanted to do something or try something, how healthy is that partnership to begin with?

I understand most people do not want a nonmonogamous relationship and many find nonmonogamy immoral. But what are the ethics and morality if one person will leave the other partner and dissolve the marriage because they asked a question? 

Now I want to make clear I’m not talking about one trying to pressure or exploit or manipulate the other into something they do not want.

But shouldn’t life partners be able to ask questions and get the other’s thoughts and feelings about .....well.... anything? 

As long as one is willing to accept no as an answer, should a marriage be a climate of fear where one has to worry that asking the wrong question will result in hostility and getting dumped?

Shouldn’t married couples be able to ask each other questions without fear of reprisal just for asking???

You all huff and puff and say you’ll do this and you’ll do that to your partner if they ask you a question you don’t like. But don’t you want you partner to feel safe in asking you difficult questions and be able to discuss potentially discomforting topics?

In the big picture, Isn’t fear of being able to discuss a difficult topic a greater threat to a marriage than any given topic?

Aren’t you creating a more hostile and dysfunctional environment in the long run by not being approachable? 

Again, I’ll start another thread to avoid thread jack, but think about that.


----------



## MattMatt

@plastow, are there any issues that made you think this was a good idea? If so, what were they?

Incidentally, are you a model steam tractor enthusiast, by any chance?


----------



## happyhusband0005

oldshirt said:


> I’m going to spin this off into another thread so as not to thread jack, but with all this posturing and threats of leaving and damaging marriages over a question leads me to pose this question of my own - Shouldn’t married couples be able to ask each other questions??
> 
> If one is going to stomp out in a huff because their partner asked them a question or asked if they wanted to do something or try something, how healthy is that partnership to begin with?
> 
> I understand most people do not want a nonmonogamous relationship and many find nonmonogamy immoral. But what are the ethics and morality if one person will leave the other partner and dissolve the marriage because they asked a question?
> 
> Now I want to make clear I’m not talking about one trying to pressure or exploit or manipulate the other into something they do not want.
> 
> But shouldn’t life partners be able to ask questions and get the other’s thoughts and feelings about .....well.... anything?
> 
> As long as one is willing to accept no as an answer, should a marriage be a climate of fear where one has to worry that asking the wrong question will result in hostility and getting dumped?
> 
> Shouldn’t married couples be able to ask each other questions without fear of reprisal just for asking???
> 
> You all huff and puff and say you’ll do this and you’ll do that to your partner if they ask you a question you don’t like. But don’t you want you partner to feel safe in asking you difficult questions and be able to discuss potentially discomforting topics?
> 
> In the big picture, Isn’t fear of being able to discuss a difficult topic a greater threat to a marriage than any given topic?
> 
> Aren’t you creating a more hostile and dysfunctional environment in the long run by not being approachable?
> 
> Again, I’ll start another thread to avoid thread jack, but think about that.


Very interesting question will watch for the new thread.


----------



## Diana7

lifeistooshort said:


> I can't imagine my SO suggesting or going along with something like this, and if he did either I don't think I'd look at him the same way.
> 
> I'd expect him to see me differently too if I pulled something like this.


Absolutely. I would loose all respect for Him.


----------



## plastow

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. It's not exactly anything less than a nuclear subject except for those who went into a relationship knowing their partner at least talked about it.
> 
> It would be interesting if OP would keep posting and answer more questions.
> 
> I'm curious if 7 years ago was the first time he asked or the subject was even talked about?


ive answered many so far and yes it was the very first and last time i had even thought about it.i also think many who have had a go at me,can honestly say they have never had a thought about something like it.it was a huge mistake and ione i will regret till the day i die.the posts ive had have made me realise just how bad i was.i,m not questioning that.i have apologised a hundred fold to my wife.i dont really understand why i got so carried away ,but my wife also got carried away with it once she said yes and couldnt wait to do so.i,m not questioning any of that.but i still have this burning feeling she is not telling me all the truth about her actions on the night i remember every single word act and detail.but she says she cannot remember.the things she has told me dont correspond with what my mate has told me.and in fact we chatted about it only yesterday and i told her what my mate told me they had done and she again said she doesnt remember.how could you not remember such a night.i will get help on this but i need the truth first .i,m not blaming her one bit but i am mixed up as to why would one tell me in detail and one cant remember.


----------



## ConanHub

plastow said:


> ive answered many so far and yes it was the very first and last time i had even thought about it.i also think many who have had a go at me,can honestly say they have never had a thought about something like it.it was a huge mistake and ione i will regret till the day i die.the posts ive had have made me realise just how bad i was.i,m not questioning that.i have apologised a hundred fold to my wife.i dont really understand why i got so carried away ,but my wife also got carried away with it once she said yes and couldnt wait to do so.i,m not questioning any of that.but i still have this burning feeling she is not telling me all the truth about her actions on the night i remember every single word act and detail.but she says she cannot remember.the things she has told me dont correspond with what my mate has told me.and in fact we chatted about it only yesterday and i told her what my mate told me they had done and she again said she doesnt remember.how could you not remember such a night.i will get help on this but i need the truth first .i,m not blaming her one bit but i am mixed up as to why would one tell me in detail and one cant remember.


Yeah, unless she was black out drunk, which from your description she wasn't, she just doesn't want to talk about it.

Hope you both get some help and it doesn't interfere anymore with your marriage.


----------



## manwithnoname

plastow said:


> ive answered many so far and yes it was the very first and last time i had even thought about it.i also think many who have had a go at me,can honestly say they have never had a thought about something like it.it was a huge mistake and ione i will regret till the day i die.the posts ive had have made me realise just how bad i was.i,m not questioning that.i have apologised a hundred fold to my wife.i dont really understand why i got so carried away ,but my wife also got carried away with it once she said yes and couldnt wait to do so.i,m not questioning any of that.but i still have this burning feeling she is not telling me all the truth about her actions on the night i remember every single word act and detail.but she says she cannot remember.the things she has told me dont correspond with what my mate has told me.and in fact we chatted about it only yesterday and i told her what my mate told me they had done and she again said she doesnt remember.how could you not remember such a night.i will get help on this but i need the truth first .i,m not blaming her one bit but i am mixed up as to why would one tell me in detail and one cant remember.


I thought you opened the door and got them to stop? Or were they already done, and smoking a cigarette? 

She can remember, but wants to forget. And probably wants you to drop it.


----------



## Blondilocks

She doesn't want to revisit it. Enough said. Stop making your wife miserable.

Honestly, you just keep piling on the hurt. So, what would you do if she did spill the beans? You would ask her if she liked this or that or if she likes him more than you etc. Drop it, for God's sake.


----------



## OnTheFly

plastow said:


> .i will get help on this *but i need the truth first*...


No, you bury your ''need'' in the very darkest black corner of your soul, where this incredibly stupid idea came from originally. Then you apologize, genuinely, and then carry on til your dying breath being the man and husband you should've been. The manner in which she responds to this is her business, you bear 100% of the responsibility for the initiation of this retarded episode and it's consequences.


----------



## happyhusband0005

plastow said:


> ive answered many so far and yes it was the very first and last time i had even thought about it.i also think many who have had a go at me,can honestly say they have never had a thought about something like it.it was a huge mistake and ione i will regret till the day i die.the posts ive had have made me realise just how bad i was.i,m not questioning that.i have apologised a hundred fold to my wife.i dont really understand why i got so carried away ,but my wife also got carried away with it once she said yes and couldnt wait to do so.i,m not questioning any of that.but i still have this burning feeling she is not telling me all the truth about her actions on the night i remember every single word act and detail.but she says she cannot remember.the things she has told me dont correspond with what my mate has told me.and in fact we chatted about it only yesterday and i told her what my mate told me they had done and she again said she doesnt remember.how could you not remember such a night.i will get help on this but i need the truth first .i,m not blaming her one bit but i am mixed up as to why would one tell me in detail and one cant remember.


Trust me please, you need to get help and drop it forever with your wife, she clearly wants to live like this never happened. If you had come here before this happened and said after a few days of convincing my wife has agreed to swap with another couple, I would have told you with 100% certainty this was going to go wrong. If one person has to be talked into it it will always go wrong one way or another. One does not just bring up the idea of full swapping out of the blue and have it go great, that is just not how it works.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

plastow said:


> ive answered many so far and yes it was the very first and last time i had even thought about it.i also think many who have had a go at me,can honestly say they have never had a thought about something like it.it was a huge mistake and ione i will regret till the day i die.the posts ive had have made me realise just how bad i was.i,m not questioning that.i have apologised a hundred fold to my wife.i dont really understand why i got so carried away ,but my wife also got carried away with it once she said yes and couldnt wait to do so.i,m not questioning any of that.but i still have this burning feeling she is not telling me all the truth about her actions on the night i remember every single word act and detail.but she says she cannot remember.the things she has told me dont correspond with what my mate has told me.and in fact we chatted about it only yesterday and i told her what my mate told me they had done and she again said she doesnt remember.how could you not remember such a night.i will get help on this but i need the truth first .i,m not blaming her one bit but i am mixed up as to why would one tell me in detail and one cant remember.


Stop bringing this up to your wife. It is possible he remembers because he enjoyed it and likes the memory. Your wife may not remember because she wants nothing more than to forget that night her husband talked her into sex with someone else then frantically burst in on them. Your buddy told you what happened, just believe it.

You set this in motion and you can't blame her for anything that happened that night. You had a hairbrained idea, didn't plan and execute it properly and it blew up on you. Now own it and stop bothering your wife about it. Whether she remembers and doesn't want to tell you or really doesn't remember is irrelevant. Even if she told you exactly the same thing your buddy told you I doubt you would feel any better.


----------



## 346745

Tested_by_stress said:


> You beat me to it lol.


Gotta give em credit for trying new things.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

@plastow just curious. What does your buddy say about how you are feeling about that night?


----------



## TexasMom1216

There's been a lot of speculation on this thread, probably due to the OP's lack of involvement. So here's my speculation:

First of all, I'm not a part of a swinging lifestyle. It does not appeal to me at all, so I married someone who felt the same way. But what little I do know about it is that communication and voluntary participation are the ONLY way it can EVER work. 

The OP bullied her into it. If the story is true, and they married 50 years ago, that's early 70s and if they're in their 70s, they married in their late teens/early twenties. He doesn't say much at all about the wife, but I bet she has never worked. I bet she's been his dependent forever, and I bet he always gets his way. She is in her 70s. She has no job, no money. If she divorced him over this, what would she tell people? That her husband of 50 years pimped her out like a *****? She would keep it a secret, and be blamed for the divorce. There's no way someone who would bully his wife into something like this wouldn't go around badmouthing her and rewriting history if things went badly. 

Here's what I think may have happened: he is bored. He's retired, so he doesn't see many other people, doesn't have a lot of time away, and it's been a few years since he's had some strange. This change is essentially opening up the marriage, so he could freely run around all he wanted without having to sneak around. He was new to swinging, likely had little understanding of it or the importance of communication, and so the likelihood that his "rules" were clearly communicated is fairly low. I'm not blaming him for that, it's a very complex situation and he was excited so he just didn't realize how to make that completely clear to everyone involved, he probably assumed she understood. IF he even had those rules in reality. Because here's the thing, if you come back in the room and your wife is behind a closed door doing something sexual that you don't want her to do, and you're super upset about it, are you stopping to diddle the other woman? Assuming you really love your wife, you're gonna stop it immediately. But that's not what he did. He stopped at the other woman. So he's excited, and nervous, and has some trouble getting started. Then he gets into his own head: my buddy's in there with my wife, and I'm out here unable to perform. No WAY this woman won't tell her husband I couldn't do it. Panic sets in. He doesn't want his pal to know he couldn't do it, he doesn't want the women to know he couldn't, he has to stop this so no one knows he asked for this and couldn't follow through. So he makes a big scene and blames his wife for the whole thing.

Fast forward 7 years and he is making her miserable over this. Not because of what she did, but because of his own failure to perform. I think he wants to know what happened because he desperately hopes his wife says his buddy chickened out too. But somehow he doubts it.

Bottom line, this is all his fault, but he doesn't accept that. I'm taking my speculation a bit further to assume the reason he's not responding is because he assumed everyone would be on his side, and they weren't. The victim here is the wife. He treated her like livestock and has zero respect or love for her. Now she knows it and has had to live not only with that realization but with his spite for the past 7 years while he blamed her for his mistakes.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> There's been a lot of speculation on this thread, probably due to the OP's lack of involvement. So here's my speculation:
> 
> First of all, I'm not a part of a swinging lifestyle. It does not appeal to me at all, so I married someone who felt the same way. But what little I do know about it is that communication and voluntary participation are the ONLY way it can EVER work.
> 
> The OP bullied her into it. If the story is true, and they married 50 years ago, that's early 70s and if they're in their 70s, they married in their late teens/early twenties. He doesn't say much at all about the wife, but I bet she has never worked. I bet she's been his dependent forever, and I bet he always gets his way. She is in her 70s. She has no job, no money. If she divorced him over this, what would she tell people? That her husband of 50 years pimped her out like a ***? She would keep it a secret, and be blamed for the divorce. There's no way someone who would bully his wife into something like this wouldn't go around badmouthing her and rewriting history if things went badly.
> 
> Here's what I think may have happened: he is bored. He's retired, so he doesn't see many other people, doesn't have a lot of time away, and it's been a few years since he's had some strange. This change is essentially opening up the marriage, so he could freely run around all he wanted without having to sneak around. He was new to swinging, likely had little understanding of it or the importance of communication, and so the likelihood that his "rules" were clearly communicated is fairly low. I'm not blaming him for that, it's a very complex situation and he was excited so he just didn't realize how to make that completely clear to everyone involved, he probably assumed she understood. IF he even had those rules in reality. Because here's the thing, if you come back in the room and your wife is behind a closed door doing something sexual that you don't want her to do, and you're super upset about it, are you stopping to diddle the other woman? Assuming you really love your wife, you're gonna stop it immediately. But that's not what he did. He stopped at the other woman. So he's excited, and nervous, and has some trouble getting started. Then he gets into his own head: my buddy's in there with my wife, and I'm out here unable to perform. No WAY this woman won't tell her husband I couldn't do it. Panic sets in. He doesn't want his pal to know he couldn't do it, he doesn't want the women to know he couldn't, he has to stop this so no one knows he asked for this and couldn't follow through. So he makes a big scene and blames his wife for the whole thing.
> 
> Fast forward 7 years and he is making her miserable over this. Not because of what she did, but because of his own failure to perform. I think he wants to know what happened because he desperately hopes his wife says his buddy chickened out too. But somehow he doubts it.
> 
> Bottom line, this is all his fault, but he doesn't accept that. I'm taking my speculation a bit further to assume the reason he's not responding is because he assumed everyone would be on his side, and they weren't. The victim here is the wife. He treated her like livestock and has zero respect or love for her. Now she knows it and has had to live not only with that realization but with his spite for the past 7 years while he blamed her for his mistakes.


That is speculation of course, but I would bet big money that you aren't far from the truth of how this all actually played out.


----------



## plastow

manwithnoname said:


> I thought you opened the door and got them to stop? Or were they already done, and smoking a cigarette?
> 
> She can remember, but wants to forget. And probably wants you to drop it.


they were done laying on the bed talking


BigDaddyNY said:


> @plastow just curious. What does your buddy say about how you are feeling about that night?


nothing


TexasMom1216 said:


> There's been a lot of speculation on this thread, probably due to the OP's lack of involvement. So here's my speculation:
> 
> First of all, I'm not a part of a swinging lifestyle. It does not appeal to me at all, so I married someone who felt the same way. But what little I do know about it is that communication and voluntary participation are the ONLY way it can EVER work.
> 
> The OP bullied her into it. If the story is true, and they married 50 years ago, that's early 70s and if they're in their 70s, they married in their late teens/early twenties. He doesn't say much at all about the wife, but I bet she has never worked. I bet she's been his dependent forever, and I bet he always gets his way. She is in her 70s. She has no job, no money. If she divorced him over this, what would she tell people? That her husband of 50 years pimped her out like a ***? She would keep it a secret, and be blamed for the divorce. There's no way someone who would bully his wife into something like this wouldn't go around badmouthing her and rewriting history if things went badly.
> 
> Here's what I think may have happened: he is bored. He's retired, so he doesn't see many other people, doesn't have a lot of time away, and it's been a few years since he's had some strange. This change is essentially opening up the marriage, so he could freely run around all he wanted without having to sneak around. He was new to swinging, likely had little understanding of it or the importance of communication, and so the likelihood that his "rules" were clearly communicated is fairly low. I'm not blaming him for that, it's a very complex situation and he was excited so he just didn't realize how to make that completely clear to everyone involved, he probably assumed she understood. IF he even had those rules in reality. Because here's the thing, if you come back in the room and your wife is behind a closed door doing something sexual that you don't want her to do, and you're super upset about it, are you stopping to diddle the other woman? Assuming you really love your wife, you're gonna stop it immediately. But that's not what he did. He stopped at the other woman. So he's excited, and nervous, and has some trouble getting started. Then he gets into his own head: my buddy's in there with my wife, and I'm out here unable to perform. No WAY this woman won't tell her husband I couldn't do it. Panic sets in. He doesn't want his pal to know he couldn't do it, he doesn't want the women to know he couldn't, he has to stop this so no one knows he asked for this and couldn't follow through. So he makes a big scene and blames his wife for the whole thing.
> 
> Fast forward 7 years and he is making her miserable over this. Not because of what she did, but because of his own failure to perform. I think he wants to know what happened because he desperately hopes his wife says his buddy chickened out too. But somehow he doubts it.
> 
> Bottom line, this is all his fault, but he doesn't accept that. I'm taking my speculation a bit further to assume the reason he's not responding is because he assumed everyone would be on his side, and they weren't. The victim here is the wife. He treated her like livestock and has zero respect or love for her. Now she knows it and has had to live not only with that realization but with his spite for the past 7 years while he blamed her for his mistakes.


your wrong i didnt bully her i aksed her several times .she said she wasnt sure so i asked again.then we woke one morning and she said ive thought enough and want to do it.i have never had sex with any other woman since we married and although you wont beleive it i love her dearly.dont preach to my about it being my fault i take all the blame and have done from the start.but when we have talked about it she is evasive about her answers.they had enough time for her to orgasm and your right i could,nt perform as my wife was in my head and i hurt a lot.she on the other hand had a good time.and i dont blame her for that.your pretty good at telling people just how bad they are.i dont need that i know it already.fortunately my wife still loves me a great deal and i try my best to make her happy.i cannot help my dreams though and often wake up in distress.does that make you happier


----------



## ConanHub

plastow said:


> they were done laying on the bed talking
> 
> nothing
> 
> your wrong i didnt bully her i aksed her several times .she said she wasnt sure so i asked again.then we woke one morning and she said ive thought enough and want to do it.i have never had sex with any other woman since we married and although you wont beleive it i love her dearly.dont preach to my about it being my fault i take all the blame and have done from the start.but when we have talked about it she is evasive about her answers.they had enough time for her to orgasm and your right i could,nt perform as my wife was in my head and i hurt a lot.she on the other hand had a good time.and i dont blame her for that.your pretty good at telling people just how bad they are.i dont need that i know it already.fortunately my wife still loves me a great deal and i try my best to make her happy.i cannot help my dreams though and often wake up in distress.does that make you happier


Is your wife understanding that you are damaged by this and need her help?


----------



## TexasMom1216

plastow said:


> your wrong i didnt bully her i aksed her several times .she said she wasnt sure so i asked again.then we woke one morning and she said ive thought enough and want to do it.i have never had sex with any other woman since we married and although you wont beleive it i love her dearly.dont preach to my about it being my fault i take all the blame and have done from the start.but when we have talked about it she is evasive about her answers.they had enough time for her to orgasm and your right i could,nt perform as my wife was in my head and i hurt a lot.she on the other hand had a good time.and i dont blame her for that.your pretty good at telling people just how bad they are.i dont need that i know it already.fortunately my wife still loves me a great deal and i try my best to make her happy.i cannot help my dreams though and often wake up in distress.does that make you happier


Well, then, there's your answer. This is your problem, not hers. It's not for her to make you feel better. It's for you to get therapy to deal with what you did. If she can forgive you for pimping her out, you should accept that forgiveness gratefully and not bother her for details. She is under ZERO obligation to tell you ANYTHING to make you feel better after the way you treated her. She wasn't "in your head" so much that you stopped it right away, the only thing that stopped you was not being able to perform.


----------



## ConanHub

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well, then, there's your answer. This is your problem, not hers. It's not for her to make you feel better. It's for you to get therapy to deal with what you did. If she can forgive you for pimping her out, you should accept that forgiveness gratefully and not bother her for details. She is under ZERO obligation to tell you ANYTHING to make you feel better after the way you treated her. She wasn't "in your head" so much that you stopped it right away, the only thing that stopped you was not being able to perform.


Be fair. If he is to be believed, she was on board and just fine with swapping, only initially resisting and he didn't bully her.

You can't pimp a willing woman and apparently she was fine with it.


----------



## manwithnoname

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well, then, there's your answer. This is your problem, not hers. It's not for her to make you feel better. It's for you to get therapy to deal with what you did. If she can forgive you for pimping her out, you should accept that forgiveness gratefully and not bother her for details. She is under ZERO obligation to tell you ANYTHING to make you feel better after the way you treated her. She wasn't "in your head" so much that you stopped it right away, the only thing that stopped you was not being able to perform.


He said he couldn’t perform because he was thinking about his wife, maybe back off a bit.


----------



## plastow

ConanHub said:


> Is your wife understanding that you are damaged by this and need her help?


yes she has been great,except for holding back things ive asked her to tell me.most of your members have said i must just forget it and i am trying but the dreams keep coming.and they then set me thinking why did she want to do it behind a closed door and why be so evasive.i am going to call a halt to this now as its doing me no good ive agreed to all the things people have said.a few have been very helpful and given good advice on how to try dealing with this but lots have been very aggressive .which i guess i deserve but it doesnt help at all. thank you for your advice


----------



## TexasMom1216

ConanHub said:


> Be fair. If he is to be believed, she was on board and just fine with swapping, only initially resisting and he didn't bully her.
> 
> You can't pimp a willing woman and apparently she was fine with it.


Based on his response to me (which paints a different picture than his initial post), IF that is true, then perhaps she was willing in that she stopped fighting him. I'm not going to go as far as to say she was "fine with it," because I understand the implication you're making. But for the sake of argument, she agreed to go through with this at his behest. His bad reaction shouldn't be laid at her feet and made her fault. If she had broken down crying and sobbing and run away while he diddled the wife (I'm not saying that's what he did, I'm saying that would be a reaction one would expect from a woman facing being passed around to her husband's friends) would HER reaction be HIS fault? No, he'd be the innocent in that transaction as well. She can't win here: she did what he told her to do and now he's holding it against her. She's the bad guy because she did precisely what he asked of her. 

He is concerned she orgasmed with another man, sounds like. Well, that's what he asked her to do. Now he's mad at her and bullying her to give him the details. She doesn't owe him the details in my opinion. He needs therapy to get past this. I feel like this is a problem of his own making and dragging her through the mud is punishing her for doing what he asked her to do.


----------



## TexasMom1216

manwithnoname said:


> He said he couldn’t perform because he was thinking about his wife, maybe back off a bit.


Thinking about her, but not enough to go get her right away. He didn't go after her until he couldn't perform. I'll back off because I can tell you guys are sensitive about this; I disagree that this is her fault.


----------



## happyhusband0005

CatholicDad said:


> I hate to toot my own horn here but @plastow liked my post that this idea was “born in porn”. So there you go porn-lovers- porn DOES wreck men and marriage.
> 
> Porn shoehorn complete.


Nope porn wrecks silly men and their marriages.


----------



## plastow

ConanHub said:


> Is your wife understanding that you are damaged by this and need her help?


she does and tries very hard to reasure me of her love and in my heart i know she will always be there for me.


TexasMom1216 said:


> Thinking about her, but not enough to go get her right away. He didn't go after her until he couldn't perform. I'll back off because I can tell you guys are sensitive about this; I disagree that this is her fault.


i tried to go through with it because i instigated it.it was my idea and mine alone.icould not go through with it after realising just how bad it all was.


----------



## ConanHub

plastow said:


> yes she has been great,except for holding back things ive asked her to tell me.most of your members have said i must just forget it and i am trying but the dreams keep coming.and they then set me thinking why did she want to do it behind a closed door and why be so evasive.i am going to call a halt to this now as its doing me no good ive agreed to all the things people have said.a few have been very helpful and given good advice on how to try dealing with this but lots have been very aggressive .which i guess i deserve but it doesnt help at all. thank you for your advice


Get yourself and hopefully your wife into counseling and/or therapy about this.

I wouldn't make the choices you did but that doesn't mean you are any worse than this barbarian and I really want you two to heal this rift.


----------



## TexasMom1216

plastow said:


> i tried to go through with it because i instigated it.it was my idea and mine alone.icould not go through with it after realising just how bad it all was.


This is different than anything else you've said. This is something from a loving husband, not a jerk who passes his wife around, and something you say when you're really taking responsibility for your actions.

You tried something you thought you would enjoy and it didn't work. That is ok; how are you supposed to know without trying? Sure, in hindsight maybe more research and better communication would have been helpful but hindsight is always 20/20. You're feeling concerned and insecure and want to know what happened with her, why? After it was over, she went home with you. She stayed with you. She's still married to you and doesn't even want to talk about what happened. Maybe, and I don't know her so again I'm speculating, maybe she isn't being "evasive." Maybe you're reading that wrong. Maybe it traumatized her too, and she doesn't want to relive it. Maybe she's a little disappointed in herself for doing it at all. 

I still think you should go to therapy, by yourself at first, to work through your feelings. This is a complicated situation, it's a lot to ask someone to go through alone. A trained therapist is going to be a lot more helpful than an internet forum, I can promise you that.


----------



## happyhusband0005

plastow said:


> yes she has been great,except for holding back things ive asked her to tell me.most of your members have said i must just forget it and i am trying but the dreams keep coming.and they then set me thinking why did she want to do it behind a closed door and why be so evasive.i am going to call a halt to this now as its doing me no good ive agreed to all the things people have said.a few have been very helpful and given good advice on how to try dealing with this but lots have been very aggressive .which i guess i deserve but it doesnt help at all. thank you for your advice


Even if she gave you every detail you would still have an issue. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think a main aspect of your fantasy was seeing your wife with another man. Even if you know the details, which your buddy has already given you, you're still going to have an issue because you missed out on fulfilling the fantasy. 

Her discussing it will not stop your desire of knowing what it all looked like. So by continuing you are most likely causing damage for something that isn't going to ease your mind.


----------



## ConanHub

TexasMom1216 said:


> Based on his response to me (which paints a different picture than his initial post), IF that is true, then perhaps she was willing in that she stopped fighting him. I'm not going to go as far as to say she was "fine with it," because I understand the implication you're making. But for the sake of argument, she agreed to go through with this at his behest. His bad reaction shouldn't be laid at her feet and made her fault. If she had broken down crying and sobbing and run away while he diddled the wife (I'm not saying that's what he did, I'm saying that would be a reaction one would expect from a woman facing being passed around to her husband's friends) would HER reaction be HIS fault? No, he'd be the innocent in that transaction as well. She can't win here: she did what he told her to do and now he's holding it against her. She's the bad guy because she did precisely what he asked of her.
> 
> He is concerned she orgasmed with another man, sounds like. Well, that's what he asked her to do. Now he's mad at her and bullying her to give him the details. She doesn't owe him the details in my opinion. He needs therapy to get past this. I feel like this is a problem of his own making and dragging her through the mud is punishing her for doing what he asked her to do.


Yeah, I don't lay this at her feat at all but she certainly wasn't a victim either.

This is a bull **** situation which he is mostly responsible for but she has some accountability as well and if they are to be healthy for whatever time they have left, she has to participate with him as well.

I've been with my wife for 30+ years, not close to the OP and his wife, but a pretty good stretch and I have had to participate in situations that were negative and mostly created by her but I still had some accountability in.

I love her today more than ever but I had to take some accountability in some disastrous decisions she was almost solely responsible for.

Marriage is like that.🙂


----------



## manwithnoname

TexasMom1216 said:


> Thinking about her, but not enough to go get her right away. He didn't go after her until he couldn't perform. I'll back off because I can tell you guys are sensitive about this; I disagree that this is her fault.


Who’s saying it’s her fault? He takes responsibility…..in the first paragraph of his first post.


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## TexasMom1216

@ConanHub, agree to disagree. In my opinion, she did as she was asked and isn't to blame for this. It was his idea, and it went badly, but she didn't do anything wrong, IMHO.


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## ConanHub

TexasMom1216 said:


> @ConanHub, agree to disagree. In my opinion, she did as she was asked and isn't to blame for this. It was his idea, and it went badly, but she didn't do anything wrong, IMHO.


What's funny is I can see they both participated in the damaging of their marriage and both hold responsibility for the health of their marriage if they want to hold onto it.

One partner can be more responsible for the damage but both have to work through it to keep the marriage intact and healthy.

That's the ugly truth.


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## manwithnoname

plastow said:


> they were done laying on the bed talking


You said you opened the door and told them to stop in your first post. How long were they in there? 
If she doesn't orgasm with you during PIV but she did with him, that can make you feel like **** right there. But how do you know if she had an orgasm since she hasn't said anything about it? Your buddy's word? He might just be ****ing with you, especially after finding out you didn't do his wife.


----------



## manwithnoname

TexasMom1216 said:


> Thinking about her, but not enough to go get her right away. He didn't go after her until he couldn't perform. I'll back off because I can tell you guys are sensitive about this; I disagree that this is her fault.


He also said there was an agreement to stay in the same room.


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## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Be fair. If he is to be believed, she was on board and just fine with swapping, only initially resisting and he didn't bully her.
> 
> You can't pimp a willing woman and apparently she was fine with it.


He did say she was upset when he first asked.


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## RandomDude

Seven bloody years mate...

Just let it go.


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## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> He did say she was upset when he first asked.


You and I don't disagree here at all. She made the choice to get into it quickly and change the rules however.

She did go for it and unilaterally changed the boundaries and refuses to be transparent about it with her husband.

You and I would never find ourselves here but they both chose their actions and both need to own it with each other to repair themselves.


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## TexasMom1216

manwithnoname said:


> He also said there was an agreement to stay in the same room.


I addressed this. It’s not his fault because he clearly has zero experience with group sex (I don’t either, all my knowledge is academic). I don’t agree that he communicated that clearly or I doubt it would have happened this way. Not his fault, just lack of experience. Set limits PRIOR to the encounter with EVERYONE. If he’s told his wife and his buddy to stay in the same room, why didn’t they? He doesn’t really say. Why is only the wife responsible for this? Why didn’t the friend respect it? You’re talking about people with no experience with swapping and assuming this woman knew exactly what was going to happen. This is just a way to blame the wife for the whole thing.


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## happyhusband0005

TexasMom1218 said:


> @ConanHub, agree to disagree. In my opinion, she did as she was asked and isn't to blame for this. It was his idea, and it went badly, but she didn't do anything wrong, IMHO.


While the entire situation is ultimately his responsibility the OP's original post seems to show they had a predetermined rule that they stay in the same room. If that is the case then braking that rule is a pretty serious no no. Even for a very experienced couple in the swinging scene breaking one of those rules is a serious serious no no. People in the lifestyle typically have a set of rules they follow no matter what, those rules may loosen or tighten up with experience but you never ever ever loosen the rules unilaterally in the moment. 

There is a lot of ways the OP messed up here the whole thing never should have happened, but her going into another room was bad (her being talked into it was worse). This is why and people experienced in the lifestyle will advise a newbie to go very very slow. Going from a conventional monogamous marriage to full swap in one giant leap has about a 99% chance of disaster. Also if you said to someone experienced in the lifestyle "hey I talked my wife into swapping" they would probably stop you right there and advise you to stop and don't do it, go back and tell her it's totally fine if she is not into the idea and if she is not you will drop it and never mention it again. If she says no I'm kind of interested then keeping discussing for a few months read some stuff discuss some more then take a lot of baby steps and work up to a full swap scenario then you reduce the chances of disaster significantly. 

The OPs situation was far from rare and the outcome was very predictable.


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## Rus47

plastow said:


> ive answered many so far and yes it was the very first and last time i had even thought about it.i also think many who have had a go at me,can honestly say they have never had a thought about something like it.it was a huge mistake and ione i will regret till the day i die.the posts ive had have made me realise just how bad i was.i,m not questioning that.i have apologised a hundred fold to my wife.i dont really understand why i got so carried away ,but my wife also got carried away with it once she said yes and couldnt wait to do so.i,m not questioning any of that.but i still have this burning feeling she is not telling me all the truth about her actions on the night i remember every single word act and detail.but she says she cannot remember.the things she has told me dont correspond with what my mate has told me.and in fact we chatted about it only yesterday and i told her what my mate told me they had done and she again said she doesnt remember.how could you not remember such a night.i will get help on this but i need the truth first .i,m not blaming her one bit but i am mixed up as to why would one tell me in detail and one cant remember.


You will never get the facts from your “wife” or your “friend”. And what difference does it make? Assume both of them had the best sex they had ever had with anyone. Wouldnt wife be clamoring for repeats since then? Has she? Assume your wife just decided to teach you a lesson to never go there again? Sounds like she succeeded.

i could even insgine she snd your friend decided to teach you a lesson and NOTHING happened behind the closed door? Or did you get an eyefull when you broke in?

is it possible your “friend” is having fun messing with your head?

You must both be pushing 80 by now? Nearing 6 decades married by now? Why dont you just bury this steaming pile and be thankful your wife didnt kick you out and move your “friend” in. Your wife is way more mature than you are.


----------



## TexasMom1216

happyhusband0005 said:


> While the entire situation is ultimately his responsibility the OP's original post seems to show they had a predetermined rule that they stay in the same room. If that is the case then braking that rule is a pretty serious no no. Even for a very experienced couple in the swinging scene breaking one of those rules is a serious serious no no. People in the lifestyle typically have a set of rules they follow no matter what, those rules may loosen or tighten up with experience but you never ever ever loosen the rules unilaterally in the moment.
> 
> There is a lot of ways the OP messed up here the whole thing never should have happened, but her going into another room was bad (her being talked into it was worse). This is why and people experienced in the lifestyle will advise a newbie to go very very slow. Going from a conventional monogamous marriage to full swap in one giant leap has about a 99% chance of disaster. Also if you said to someone experienced in the lifestyle "hey I talked my wife into swapping" they would probably stop you right there and advise you to stop and don't do it, go back and tell her it's totally fine if she is not into the idea and if she is not you will drop it and never mention it again. If she says no I'm kind of interested then keeping discussing for a few months read some stuff discuss some more then take a lot of baby steps and work up to a full swap scenario then you reduce the chances of disaster significantly.
> 
> The OPs situation was far from rare and the outcome was very predictable.


Inexperience can lead to assumptions. He said “I want to see you with another guy.” The OP hasn’t said anything else about the “rule.” He may have mistakenly assumed she knew to stay in the room. I of course wasn’t there, and maybe he was clear. But experience would tell him to tell his wife, his buddy and his buddy’s wife that the arrangement is everyone in the same room and no one goes off alone. If the OP comes back and says that prior to the encounter they had this talk, then I’ll concede that his wife AND HIS FRIEND (which puts us at odds, since I don’t believe it is all on her) bear more responsibility than I first assumed.
The rest of your post is spot on. This stuff is so complicated, you should really research, talk, learn and have guidance from experiences swingers before you do something like this. Talk about starting in the deep end.


----------



## ConanHub

TexasMom1216 said:


> I addressed this. It’s not his fault because he clearly has zero experience with group sex (I don’t either, all my knowledge is academic). I don’t agree that he communicated that clearly or I doubt it would have happened this way. Not his fault, just lack of experience. Set limits PRIOR to the encounter with EVERYONE. If he’s told his wife and his buddy to stay in the same room, why didn’t they? He doesn’t really say. Why is only the wife responsible for this? Why didn’t the friend respect it? You’re talking about people with no experience with swapping and assuming this woman knew exactly what was going to happen. This is just a way to blame the wife for the whole thing.


I'm definitely not blaming the wife for the whole thing though she absolutely needs to own her choices in this.

You do bring up a damn good point though.

Why didn't his friend respect the boundaries?

OP, why didn't your buddy respect you?

I'm actually having such a hard time with this personally as I am extremely territorial and I can't see not coming down hard on a lifelong "friend" that disrespected me like your "friend" apparently did.

Great catch @TexasMom1216!


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## ConanHub

TexasMom1216 said:


> I addressed this. It’s not his fault because he clearly has zero experience with group sex (I don’t either, all my knowledge is academic). I don’t agree that he communicated that clearly or I doubt it would have happened this way. Not his fault, just lack of experience. Set limits PRIOR to the encounter with EVERYONE. If he’s told his wife and his buddy to stay in the same room, why didn’t they? He doesn’t really say. Why is only the wife responsible for this? Why didn’t the friend respect it? You’re talking about people with no experience with swapping and assuming this woman knew exactly what was going to happen. This is just a way to blame the wife for the whole thing.


I'm definitely not blaming the wife for the whole thing though she absolutely needs to own her choices in this.

You do bring up a damn good point though.

Why didn't his friend respect the boundaries?

OP, why didn't your buddy respect you?

I'm actually having such a hard time with this personally as I am extremely territorial and I can't see not coming down hard on a lifelong "friend" that disrespected me like your "friend" apparently did.

Great catch @TexasMom1216!


----------



## Anastasia6

manwithnoname said:


> He also said there was an agreement to stay in the same room.


Actually he’s been asked many times if he was specific with all involved about this boundary. He’s never answered if he did a proper boundary conversation versus my idea is we swap and stay in the same room.

he hasn’t answered that question. And if his wife didn’t get that he was specifically look to watch her get ****ed by his friend she might not have wanted to be seen or to watch him have sex with someone else.

even if she did understand that was what he wanted she may have decided she didn’t feel comfortable with the show and not realize it was such a big Deal. Or she did and it was her own mind **** for wanting to swap in the first place.


----------



## manwithnoname

Anastasia6 said:


> Actually he’s been asked many times if he was specific with all involved about this boundary. He’s never answered if he did a proper boundary conversation versus my idea is we swap and stay in the same room.
> 
> he hasn’t answered that question. And if his wife didn’t get that he was specifically look to watch her get ****ed by his friend she might not have wanted to be seen or to watch him have sex with someone else.
> 
> even if she did understand that was what he wanted she may have decided she didn’t feel comfortable with the show and not realize it was such a big Deal. Or she did and it was her own mind **** for wanting to swap in the first place.


Yes, he's been unclear about a lot of things. Maybe when she thought about it, it was her opportunity to be with her second man ever, and she might have been the driver to go to a private room.


----------



## TexasMom1216

ConanHub said:


> What's funny is I can see they both participated in the damaging of their marriage and both hold responsibility for the health of their marriage if they want to hold onto it.
> 
> One partner can be more responsible for the damage but both have to work through it to keep the marriage intact and healthy.
> 
> That's the ugly truth.


Like I said, you can blame her if that's how you see it, and put the onus on her to fix it. I doubt he was the only one hurt by this, I think it's unfair to assume she had a blast and is totally fine with what happened. Multiple perspectives are valuable in a situation like this. From mine, punishing her for this and making her fix it is victimizing her a second time. If you see her as the antagonist, you won't see it that way.


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## TexasMom1216

ConanHub said:


> Great catch @TexasMom1216!


Thank you, I really did read the whole thing and think about it before I posted. I'm not trying to be unfair. My perspective will be different because I'm a woman, that's natural and why both men and women are on the forum.


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## BigDaddyNY

@plastow Even though I think you were a fool to instigate this I still feel for you. I'm sure your pain is very real. That said, getting the gory details from your wife is not likely to make you feel better. Get some professional help.


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## ConanHub

TexasMom1216 said:


> Like I said, you can blame her if that's how you see it, and put the onus on her to fix it. I doubt he was the only one hurt by this, I think it's unfair to assume she had a blast and is totally fine with what happened. Multiple perspectives are valuable in a situation like this. From mine, punishing her for this and making her fix it is victimizing her a second time. If you see her as the antagonist, you won't see it that way.


I'm not seeing it as her fixing this by herself.

Mrs. C has screwed up big time in our marriage and was far more responsible for the damage than me but I was still accountable for my part even though less responsible. Regardless of the majority of the blame, I needed to help if I wanted my marriage to work and so does OP's wife.

Since she has no intention to leave, obviously, she does need to engage with her husband again and heal this bull **** that he started and she had a part in.


----------



## ConanHub

TexasMom1216 said:


> Thank you, I really did read the whole thing and think about it before I posted. I'm not trying to be unfair. My perspective will be different because I'm a woman, that's natural and why both men and women are on the forum.


LoL! I really appreciate women and their perspective. I've benefitted from the woman of TAM for years and my own marriage has benefited as well.

I'm unapologetically male and by that, I necessarily don't have a woman's perspective which I greatly value.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Blondilocks said:


> She doesn't want to revisit it. Enough said. Stop making your wife miserable.
> 
> Honestly, you just keep piling on the hurt. So, what would you do if she did spill the beans? You would ask her if she liked this or that or if she likes him more than you etc. Drop it, for God's sake.


Given her background and how this came about, she is probably nothing but traumatized by this.


----------



## TexasMom1216

DownByTheRiver said:


> Given her background and how this came about, she is probably nothing but traumatized by this.


And now she's being re-traumatized by being grilled about it over and over. It's just insane. "She agreed to it, it's her fault." "She left the room, it's her fault." "She won't talk about it, it's all her fault." She may as well have eaten an apple while she was in there, then these guys could just blame her for everything.


----------



## oldtruck

why continue to ask the OP questions when he only gives vague answers?


----------



## happyhusband0005

TexasMom1216 said:


> Inexperience can lead to assumptions. He said “I want to see you with another guy.” The OP hasn’t said anything else about the “rule.” He may have mistakenly assumed she knew to stay in the room. I of course wasn’t there, and maybe he was clear. But experience would tell him to tell his wife, his buddy and his buddy’s wife that the arrangement is everyone in the same room and no one goes off alone. If the OP comes back and says that prior to the encounter they had this talk, then I’ll concede that his wife AND HIS FRIEND (which puts us at odds, since I don’t believe it is all on her) bear more responsibility than I first assumed.
> The rest of your post is spot on. This stuff is so complicated, you should really research, talk, learn and have guidance from experiences swingers before you do something like this. Talk about starting in the deep end.


Yah I may be assuming they had a rule because he said he had called out we were supposed to stay in the same room. If there was no clear mutually agreed to rule then she did nothing wrong.


----------



## Mybabysgotit

ConanHub said:


> Nobody's better than me but I don't share.😉😋


I was kind of thinking the same thing. I would imagine if my wife had sex with someone else, there's a real chance she would find out how good she had it all along and give me some more respect up in here...


----------



## Mybabysgotit

plastow said:


> ive answered many so far and yes it was the very first and last time i had even thought about it.i also think many who have had a go at me,can honestly say they have never had a thought about something like it.it was a huge mistake and ione i will regret till the day i die.the posts ive had have made me realise just how bad i was.i,m not questioning that.i have apologised a hundred fold to my wife.i dont really understand why i got so carried away ,but my wife also got carried away with it once she said yes and couldnt wait to do so.i,m not questioning any of that.but i still have this burning feeling she is not telling me all the truth about her actions on the night i remember every single word act and detail.but she says she cannot remember.the things she has told me dont correspond with what my mate has told me.and in fact we chatted about it only yesterday and i told her what my mate told me they had done and she again said she doesnt remember.how could you not remember such a night.i will get help on this but i need the truth first .i,m not blaming her one bit but i am mixed up as to why would one tell me in detail and one cant remember.


Her not "remembering" is very telling in itself. It would leave me to believe she had the time of her life and doesn't want to say that to you.


----------



## Anastasia6

Mybabysgotit said:


> Her not "remembering" is very telling in itself. It would leave me to believe she had the time of her life and doesn't want to say that to you.


Or traumatized and didn't want to relive it.
Or knows the details will only feed her husbands mind movies and not help them.
Or wants to forget the day she let her husband talk her into being pimped out to his friend that they still see.
Or doesn't want to remember and share in how much she wasn't valued as a faithful sexual partner.

It is telling but really it's odd that you think you know what it's saying.


----------



## Anastasia6

I don't think OP will answer but it could really shed light on things if he'd clear up if they actually had spoken clear rules with all parties.

and how long exactly did he wait to interrupt them? 

What does the buddy say happened what does the wife say happened... How big are the discrepancies?


----------



## OnTheFly

ConanHub said:


> Great catch @TexasMom1216!


You know what else is a good catch.....what took so long in the crapper that in the meantime the wife and BFF had enough time to retire to the bed room, get jiggy with each other and smoke a cigarette before his conscious regained sense?


----------



## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> Or traumatized and didn't want to relive it.
> Or knows the details will only feed her husbands mind movies and not help them.
> Or wants to forget the day she let her husband talk her into being pimped out to his friend that they still see.
> Or doesn't want to remember and share in how much she wasn't valued as a faithful sexual partner.
> 
> It is telling but really it's odd that you think you know what it's saying.


It’s mostly telling. It’s clear they all blame her and believe he is a great guy who just wanted to improve their sex lives and that his horrible, lying, immoral wife needs to pay.


----------



## TexasMom1216

OnTheFly said:


> You know what else is a good catch.....what took so long in the crapper that in the meantime the wife and BFF had enough time to retire to the bed room, get jiggy with each other and smoke a cigarette before his conscious regained sense?


I still think if he’d nailed his friend’s wife he wouldn’t be as upset. I was on the fence for a minute because of one of his posts that seemed kinda remorseful and the men on here were adamant that she is to blame for the whole mess. Made me doubt myself but the longer I mull it over, no, he doesn’t care about his wife. This is about his ego. That poor woman.


----------



## Anastasia6

OnTheFly said:


> You know what else is a good catch.....what took so long in the crapper that in the meantime the wife and BFF had enough time to retire to the bed room, get jiggy with each other and smoke a cigarette before his conscious regained sense?


Well you see he did try to have sex with the other woman but couldn't so that took some time. But yeah I'm just thinking how much time are we talking. I think it's possible they didn't really have sex. Which would explain why their details don't match up.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> I don't think OP will answer but it could really shed light on things if he'd clear up if they actually had spoken clear rules with all parties.
> 
> and how long exactly did he wait to interrupt them?
> 
> What does the buddy say happened what does the wife say happened... How big are the discrepancies?


I suspect these answers might disrupt the narrative.


----------



## Organic1

OP I say all this very gently.
I have many things to bring up, but I also did some swinging, because my XWW was cheating. So why not get some legit action myself, I also hated it. Regret it too.

OP we all have things we must forgive ourselves for!
OP what do you want your wife to tell you? What has she told you? Seriously, do you want her to lie and say she hated it if she enjoyed it. Do you want to know if she orgasmed or the positions? Ask yourself what you want from your wife. Are you upset with yourself for not being able to perform? (Not uncommon)

To me, you are a lucky man 50 years with an honest wife who loves only you. Do you want to trade lol? Trust me you do not.

OP you are 70 you know what sex looks like, really you know, you know that new sex can be exciting. Look in yourself, do you really want ALL the details, will it really help you or just give you worse dreams. I found all the details of my XWW wife last affair, from her AP, she should have told me the truth, but I would have/should have not wanted to know that he got love making, her on top, my favorite kind of sex. I got the F me, don't stop, harder, faster.

I know you are traumatized and wish you love and peace. If you found an affair recovery trauma IC that would help you, but they can be hard to find.

One more thing, is your gut telling you something else? Like this was not a onetime thing are you feeling there is more to this? Sit yourself down go through the entire night, understand the truth, she broke the rules, that maybe was for the best and if you are honest you tried with the other women without her in sight. I learned after the first time swinging being in the same bed was horrible, so I started making sure I did not have to see XWW with the man.


----------



## ConanHub

OnTheFly said:


> You know what else is a good catch.....what took so long in the crapper that in the meantime the wife and BFF had enough time to retire to the bed room, get jiggy with each other and smoke a cigarette before his conscious regained sense?


They had just started when he got back and he spoke up but didn't go in until after he had been trying to have sex with the other woman for a while.


----------



## Fly With Me

There are a few things I think fwitw. I think you are a good man who made a terrible mistake. That's ok. You are human. Give yourself some grace.

1) For me to have a truly incredible intimate marriage - transparency and honesty are essential. It sounds like you are similar. I couldn't have incredible life changing sex with my husband if I didn't know I could say anything to him and vice versa. 

If your wife had had sex with your friend without your say so everyone here would be agreeing that she needed to be transparent and give you as many details as you needed because that is often what people need in these kind of situations. There's nothing wrong with you for needing that it's normal.

The problem is that in an affair you have the "right" to ask those questions but in this situation you "don't". Ultimately no matter the blame no one can force anyone to be honest. She knows you very well and she loves you. Perhaps she thinks that telling you will be worse than you not knowing. It might be a case of sharing with her a bit about mind movies and how it is impacting you. Often we think we have communicated something when we really haven't. Who knows we are all wildly speculating about most of this.

I think for you to have the depth of connection you clearly long for in your relationship you need her to be honest BUT you might have to accept that you have lost that because of your actions. You might have go go through the stages of grief - you seem to be stuck in denial and bargaining. You might need help to move to acceptance of what is. That is possible.

2) You clearly thought you needed something/someone outside yourself and your marriage to meet your needs. You are still relying on your wife to meet your needs now and think that your well being depends on her honesty. It doesn't. Your relationship might but your well being doesn't. You are NOT powerless in this situation. You are making yourself the victim of her silence. You need to spend some time in introspection with yourself or a trusted friend/therapist or counsellor and work out what it was that was missing in you that led to you asking her to sleep with your friend. It won't just be about sex - it will be about something deeper than that. Get really honest with yourself before asking your wife to get really honest with you. That really is the least you can do. Get to the bottom of the bottom of yourself. It might take some time. Some people find journalling helps, or maybe asking yourself the question before you sleep at night and writing your first thoughts down in the morning. Forget about her for the moment. You have no real power over her - only over yourself. Use a good therapist. You were trying to find a way to express a part of yourself that was suppressed and that's a beautiful thing. The way you went about it was ugly. You can get to a place of peace in all this. You can even tell her you are going to stop asking her for say six months to a year while you work on yourself and then you will come back to her with some honesty for her first.

3) Once you are in that place and you are no longer in a place of trying to get something from her have the conversation again. Offer her the gift of YOUR honesty. Why you did it. What you needed. What was missing for you then. And everything else that is now missing for you as a result of your actions. Tell her with no sense of demand or requirement on her to do anything. Just be vulnerable and open. Show her your tattered heart. Ask for what you want (and after that process of introspection you may find it is different from what you think it is.) Then it is up to her if she wants to take your relationship to a deeper level with her own honesty and vulnerability or not for HER benefit not just yours.


----------



## LeslieD125

plastow said:


> Forgiveness is a hard concept to understand sometimes, but that is what is needed. You need to forgive yourself for hurting your wife and undermining your marriage. Sex creates a bond that is intended for a husband and wife and no one else. We can often lose sight of the wonder of fidelity in marriage but feel it so strongly when the wonder of fidelity is gone. I hope this helps you.


----------



## manwithnoname

TexasMom1216 said:


> *I still think if he’d nailed his friend’s wife he wouldn’t be as upset.* I was on the fence for a minute because of one of his posts that seemed kinda remorseful and the men on here were adamant that she is to blame for the whole mess. Made me doubt myself but the longer I mull it over, no, he doesn’t care about his wife. *This is about his ego*. That poor woman.


Probably not as upset. I wonder why he wanted to see her with his buddy. If it was to see his buddy not perform as well as himself, to pad his ego, or whether he's into **** style humiliation and hoped the sex would be awesome, we don't know. His ego took a big hit when he couldn't perform, while the buddy had no problem. 

Don't paint all the men on here with the same brush. In fact, I don't think anyone assigned blame to just her.


----------



## TexasMom1216

manwithnoname said:


> Probably not as upset. I wonder why he wanted to see her with his buddy. If it was to see his buddy not perform as well as himself, to pad his ego, or whether he's into **** style humiliation and hoped the sex would be awesome, we don't know. His ego took a big hit when he couldn't perform, while the buddy had no problem.
> 
> *Don't paint all the men on here with the same brush*. In fact, I don't think anyone assigned blame to just her.


Fair. Some men think this was her fault.


----------



## manwithnoname

Things we don't know: 

Was the other wife reluctant as well? 

Was his wife on board from the beginning, but wanted to be nudged enough so as not to seem too eager? 

What was discussed as the rules? He may have discussed with his wife but not the other couple. It's been brought up why didn't the buddy adhere to the request, but if he didn't know about it? If the other couple knew, why didn't the other wife remind them?

Did the OP make sure they heard him when he called out?

How long did he try with the other wife before he went to the door and opened it? 

Did both the buddy and OP's wife give differing accounts, or the buddy gave his and the wife "can't remember"? (I would think that request would have been made at the time or the next morning, not 7 years later)


----------



## manwithnoname

TexasMom1216 said:


> Fair. Some men think this was her fault.


I've only seen shared blame. It is his fault for bringing it up in the first place. Although I'm wondering if she want to do it straight away but didn't want to seem too eager, as I mentioned in my previous comment. From his statement "and it took several days before she came in to me and said she had given it a lot of thought and decided to have a go".

If she truly was reluctant, I don't believe she would have brought it up on her own.


----------



## TexasMom1216

manwithnoname said:


> I've only seen shared blame. It is his fault for bringing it up in the first place. Although I'm wondering if she want to do it straight away but didn't want to seem too eager, as I mentioned in my previous comment. From his statement "and it took several days before she came in to me and said she had given it a lot of thought and decided to have a go".
> 
> If she truly was reluctant, I don't believe she would have brought it up on her own.


So it’s her fault for going along.
I should amend my earlier post: if he’d been able to perform, he wouldn’t be upset at all. He’s mad because he couldn’t perform and blames her for his inability to perform. He also blames her for sleeping with his friend, even though he asked her to. She is getting blamed when all she did was what he asked her to do, and being accused of being immoral for submitting to his will.

Like I said before, she should have eaten an apple while she was in there so she could be blamed for everything.


----------



## manwithnoname

TexasMom1216 said:


> *So it’s her fault for going along*.
> I should amend my earlier post: if he’d been able to perform, he wouldn’t be upset at all. He’s mad because he couldn’t perform and blames her for his inability to perform. He also blames her for sleeping with his friend, even though he asked her to. She is getting blamed when all she did was what he asked her to do, and being accused of being immoral for submitting to his will.
> 
> Like I said before, she should have eaten an apple while she was in there so she could be blamed for everything.


If this is your conclusion then your comprehension skills are severely lacking. 
Stop making **** up and don't put words into my mouth.


----------



## LATERILUS79

TexasMom1216 said:


> Fair. Some men think this was her fault.


Texasmom, thank you for addressing this. I think you have A LOT of important and insightful things to say on a variety of topics. I think talking points hit home more impactfully when when individual bad actors are pointed out as opposed to using broad brushes. I make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. It takes a bigger person to admit and address their own. 

For what its worth, you gained respect from me.


----------



## LATERILUS79

TexasMom1216 said:


> So it’s her fault for going along.
> I should amend my earlier post: if he’d been able to perform, he wouldn’t be upset at all. He’s mad because he couldn’t perform and blames her for his inability to perform. He also blames her for sleeping with his friend, even though he asked her to. She is getting blamed when all she did was what he asked her to do, and being accused of being immoral for submitting to his will.
> 
> Like I said before, she should have eaten an apple while she was in there so she could be blamed for everything.


I still think she wanted to get it over with as quickly as possible. Maybe she was pressured. Maybe she wasn't. Not enough information here to make a determination in my opinion. Maybe she got into the room and thought, "I didn't really want to be here, but I might as well make the best of it." and then wouldn't you know it, she enjoyed herself. Makes perfect sense to me. I personally don't want to have sex with other women outside of my wife, but if I did, I'm not going to fool myself. I will physically enjoy it regardless of the emotional damage it is going to cause. 

And that is where I think this story is at this point. She physically enjoyed it while at the same time it caused her emotional damage - and that is heart breaking. It is an absolutely terrible trade-off. One that I don't think she wanted, but did it anyway because she trying to please her husband. 

OP, I think you need to simply accept that you also made a trade-off. You traded knowing the full, absolute truth that night for getting to be a swinger. Nothing in life is free, and the second by second truth of that night is the cost of your actions. Sounds like you and your wife have not done anything like this since that night. Sounds like she wants to move on and be with you and only you. Get therapy like others suggested here. I also strongly suggest making this up to your wife. Show her that you truly love her more than anything else. Go the complete opposite direction of what you are doing now. Instead of probing for the truth, go out of your way to make her think that night doesn't exist in your relationship. Move on, enjoy and love the rest of your time on this planet with your wife.


----------



## TexasMom1216

LATERILUS79 said:


> Texasmom, thank you for addressing this. I think you have A LOT of important and insightful things to say on a variety of topics. I think talking points hit home more impactfully when when individual bad actors are pointed out as opposed to using broad brushes. I make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. It takes a bigger person to admit and address their own.
> 
> For what its worth, you gained respect from me.


Thanks for this, it’s very nice. This topic has been beaten to death and I’m pretty sure the OP is gone because he didn’t like the posts that didn’t support his narrative. I feel bad for this poor woman; she’s been through hell because she did as she was told and now she’s being asked to relive that hell because the one who made her go through hell is upset and she’s expected to do whatever it takes to make HIM feel better. She’s being victimized over and over so he can not take responsibility for what he made her do. I feel awful for her, and it makes me sad reading posts from men who say she’s at the very least equally responsible for this mess. She isn’t to blame for this, he is, and he needs to fix whatever is bugging him on his own. He’s gotten his pound of flesh from her and it should be enough. IMHO.
Also, I see no evidence that she “enjoyed” it. He said they were in there “long enough” for her to orgasm, not that she did (unless I missed it, which is possible). People are implying she enjoyed it to make her out to be a *****.


----------



## Evinrude58

plastow said:


> she does and tries very hard to reasure me of her love and in my heart i know she will always be there for me.
> 
> i tried to go through with it because i instigated it.it was my idea and mine alone.icould not go through with it after realising just how bad it all was.


Your wife must have orgasmed in 5 seconds, then? ExActiy how long did it take to figure out it was a bad idea?
Why did you suddenly change your mind?
This doesn’t make sense. 
You’re seemingly all butt-hurt over this when YOU are the one that wanted it. Your wife has absolutely nothing to apologize for, shouldn’t have to allay your fears or service your hurt feelings. This is 100% your doing. You took so long to decide you didn’t like the idea that she already had an orgasm and was smoking a cigarette? Either he was fabulous in bed or You took quite a while to decide you didn’t like the idea. This story sounds totally illogical to me.


----------



## Evinrude58

ConanHub said:


> I'm definitely not blaming the wife for the whole thing though she absolutely needs to own her choices in this.
> 
> You do bring up a damn good point though.
> 
> Why didn't his friend respect the boundaries?
> 
> OP, why didn't your buddy respect you?
> 
> I'm actually having such a hard time with this personally as I am extremely territorial and I can't see not coming down hard on a lifelong "friend" that disrespected me like your "friend" apparently did.
> 
> Great catch @TexasMom1216!


Exactly how much respect should be mustered for a friend that wants to bang your wife or allow you to bang his? Just sayin.


----------



## OnTheFly

ConanHub said:


> They had just started when he got back and he spoke up but didn't go in until after he had been trying to have sex with the other woman for a while.


Entirely plausible. But we'll never know with a certainty to make a firm judgement because one of the parties is rightly tight-lipped and seemingly eager to forget this embarrassing and shameful episode of their lives. 

In my eyes (and maybe the eyes of many in the CWI section, where this thread should be because it was mutual infidelity), full blown sex(her), and the planning and attempting to have sex (him, but failing performance wise) is equally cheating. Neither gets to ask/demand anything from the other regarding ''needs'' in order to help heal. I'm chuckling to myself as I write this because it's so absurd. What are people thinking?

What if he came back from the crapper and nailed the other dudes wife so hard and thoroughly that she howled like a banshee during orgasm? And then his wife got five seconds of thrusting and pre-jacked. And now she wants another dude to schtump her because she feels cheated in the performance/agreement? Would that be a legitimate need? (this is more rhetorical and not directed at you, Conan).

This is all so ****ed up. These people are grandparent age. They should be baking cookies with granddaughters and showing grandsons how to sharpen an axe. 

Btw, I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but how much did alcohol play a factor in all this, or porn (I know, I know, a ''touchy'' subject)?


----------



## Mr.Married

Call me hateful but I like how when push came to shove she was the one that could perform in the end and he was left there with a limp noodle. At least the woman’s got the guts. I almost want to clap my hands at the irony.


----------



## Anastasia6

OnTheFly said:


> Entirely plausible. But we'll never know with a certainty to make a firm judgement because one of the parties is rightly tight-lipped and seemingly eager to forget this embarrassing and shameful episode of their lives.
> 
> In my eyes (and maybe the eyes of many in the CWI section, where this thread should be because it was mutual infidelity), full blown sex(her), and the planning and attempting to have sex (him, but failing performance wise) is equally cheating. Neither gets to ask/demand anything from the other regarding ''needs'' in order to help heal. I'm chuckling to myself as I write this because it's so absurd. What are people thinking?
> 
> What if he came back from the crapper and nailed the other dudes wife so hard and thoroughly that she howled like a banshee during orgasm? And then his wife got five seconds of thrusting and pre-jacked. And now she wants another dude to schtump her because she feels cheated in the performance/agreement? Would that be a legitimate need? (this is more rhetorical and not directed at you, Conan).
> 
> This is all so ****ed up. These people are grandparent age. They should be baking cookies with granddaughters and showing grandsons how to sharpen an axe.
> 
> Btw, I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but how much did alcohol play a factor in all this, or porn (I know, I know, a ''touchy'' subject)?


I doubt @plastow is going to respond on the boundaries, time or porn. He wants help but doesn't realize that help needs details to sort out what's going on. There's no magic help for his mind movies. But a better understanding of the situation may allow us to give advice on how to approach the wife.

He made it clear he doesn't want any recriminations on himself because he knows .. and he's apologized to his wife.

You know OP's always want only what they want and don't understand the process.


----------



## plastow

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is different than anything else you've said. This is something from a loving husband, not a jerk who passes his wife around, and something you say when you're really taking responsibility for your actions.
> 
> You tried something you thought you would enjoy and it didn't work. That is ok; how are you supposed to know without trying? Sure, in hindsight maybe more research and better communication would have been helpful but hindsight is always 20/20. You're feeling concerned and insecure and want to know what happened with her, why? After it was over, she went home with you. She stayed with you. She's still married to you and doesn't even want to talk about what happened. Maybe, and I don't know her so again I'm speculating, maybe she isn't being "evasive." Maybe you're reading that wrong. Maybe it traumatized her too, and she doesn't want to relive it. Maybe she's a little disappointed in herself for doing it at all.
> 
> I still think you should go to therapy, by yourself at first, to work through your feelings. This is a complicated situation, it's a lot to ask someone to go through alone. A trained therapist is going to be a lot more helpful than an internet forum, I can promise you that.


thank you for that what you have said about my wife fits the bill and i,m going to work on that.if it works great if i,m still in a mess then i will see a therapist,thanks for the good sense


----------



## plastow

manwithnoname said:


> You said you opened the door and told them to stop in your first post. How long were they in there?
> If she doesn't orgasm with you during PIV but she did with him, that can make you feel like **** right there. But how do you know if she had an orgasm since she hasn't said anything about it? Your buddy's word? He might just be ****ing with you, especially after finding out you didn't do his wife.


the orgasm was part of the info she gave me


----------



## plastow

Rus47 said:


> You will never get the facts from your “wife” or your “friend”. And what difference does it make? Assume both of them had the best sex they had ever had with anyone. Wouldnt wife be clamoring for repeats since then? Has she? Assume your wife just decided to teach you a lesson to never go there again? Sounds like she succeeded.
> 
> i could even insgine she snd your friend decided to teach you a lesson and NOTHING happened behind the closed door? Or did you get an eyefull when you broke in?
> 
> is it possible your “friend” is having fun messing with your head?
> 
> You must both be pushing 80 by now? Nearing 6 decades married by now? Why dont you just bury this steaming pile and be thankful your wife didnt kick you out and move your “friend” in. Your wife is way more mature than you are.


they did have sex and when i opened the door they were both naked and were still having sex.the guy has been my friend since childhood.one of the reasons i thought it would be ok.wrong.


----------



## plastow

ConanHub said:


> I'm definitely not blaming the wife for the whole thing though she absolutely needs to own her choices in this.
> 
> You do bring up a damn good point though.
> 
> Why didn't his friend respect the boundaries?
> 
> OP, why didn't your buddy respect you?
> 
> I'm actually having such a hard time with this personally as I am extremely territorial and I can't see not coming down hard on a lifelong "friend" that disrespected me like your "friend" apparently did.
> 
> Great catch @TexasMom1216!


my friend and his wife didnt know of the boundaries we had set.but its still my fault nobody else is to bnlame .which doesnt make it any easier


----------



## plastow

Anastasia6 said:


> Actually he’s been asked many times if he was specific with all involved about this boundary. He’s never answered if he did a proper boundary conversation versus my idea is we swap and stay in the same room.
> 
> he hasn’t answered that question. And if his wife didn’t get that he was specifically look to watch her get ****ed by his friend she might not have wanted to be seen or to watch him have sex with someone else.
> 
> even if she did understand that was what he wanted she may have decided she didn’t feel comfortable with the show and not realize it was such a big Deal. Or she did and it was her own mind **** for wanting to swap in the first place.


we didnt tell our frfiend the same room rule i assumed my wife would respect it.


----------



## Anastasia6

plastow said:


> we didnt tell our frfiend the same room rule i assumed my wife would respect it.


And how much did your wife know it was a hard boundary versus something you desired?

Also boundaries are usually known by all. Maybe the friend wanted the bedroom so he didn't have to see his wife get plowed or blow someone.


----------



## plastow

TexasMom1216 said:


> Like I said, you can blame her if that's how you see it, and put the onus on her to fix it. I doubt he was the only one hurt by this, I think it's unfair to assume she had a blast and is totally fine with what happened. Multiple perspectives are valuable in a situation like this. From mine, punishing her for this and making her fix it is victimizing her a second time. If you see her as the antagonist, you won't see it that way.


how many times do i have to say i dont blame her i know its my fault.my head is trying to tell me something different


----------



## ConanHub

plastow said:


> my friend and his wife didnt know of the boundaries we had set.but its still my fault nobody else is to bnlame .which doesnt make it any easier


What a cluster duck!


----------



## plastow

oldtruck said:


> why continue to ask the OP questions when he only gives vague answers?


i have treid to answer all the questions i have read but it seems no one is seeing them


----------



## plastow

TexasMom1216 said:


> I still think if he’d nailed his friend’s wife he wouldn’t be as upset. I was on the fence for a minute because of one of his posts that seemed kinda remorseful and the men on here were adamant that she is to blame for the whole mess. Made me doubt myself but the longer I mull it over, no, he doesn’t care about his wife. This is about his ego. That poor woman.


you have no idea just how wrong you are and i,m not going to try to change your mind.read my answers


----------



## plastow

Anastasia6 said:


> And how much did your wife know it was a hard boundary versus something you desired?
> 
> Also boundaries are usually known by all. Maybe the friend wanted the bedroom so he didn't have to see his wife get plowed or blow someone.


he very much wanted to watch me have sex with his wife.and my wife and i had disgust about rules and i i dont want sex in seperate rooms at all as its more like a affair


----------



## plastow

Anastasia6 said:


> I don't think OP will answer but it could really shed light on things if he'd clear up if they actually had spoken clear rules with all parties.
> 
> and how long exactly did he wait to interrupt them?
> 
> What does the buddy say happened what does the wife say happened... How big are the discrepancies?


only with my wife.sshe did question the sme room rule but after i said it was the reason i was doing it she agreed


----------



## Anastasia6

plastow said:


> only with my wife.sshe did question the sme room rule but after i said it was the reason i was doing it she agreed


So have you ever asked her how they ended up in the bedroom?

Frankly I think dredging all this up 7 years later is not going to improve your marriage but if she new and you friend wanted to watch you **** his wife then how did they end up in the bedroom.

It seems like you wife didn't want to do this. She reluctantly agreed, she didn't want same room, she reluctantly agreed and at the 'last' minute she changed her mind.


----------



## Anastasia6

plastow said:


> i have treid to answer all the questions i have read but it seems no one is seeing them


Ok so while you are answering questions. Do you watch porn?


----------



## Mr.Married

I think this thread should be closed because all we are doing is making him want to go back to his wife for more answers unfortunately. She just wants to let it die.


----------



## Fly With Me

Is this right? It sounds like part of you feels like she had an affair. She broke your agreed boundaries. You are upset about how keen she was once she got past her initial reluctance, you are upset she broke your boundary and went private, you are upset she had a great time without you.

Mostly you blame yourself but a part of you blames her, doubts her and wants answers. You thought she was a faithful wife who had to be talked into it but you are worried she actually didn't need much talking into it and loved every moment. She was the one who initiated after the initial awkwardness and dove straight in as soon as he got back from the toilet. In all other respects she is a faithful wife but her behaviour in this situation has raised questions for you and you don't know how to get them answered without blaming her for your idea.

Is that getting close to some of it?


----------



## plastow

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok so while you are answering questions. Do you watch porn?


yes i do watch porn as most guys do at sometime.but i,m not obsessed with it if your going to tell me thats what prompted me.my pal and i were chatting about sex in general as we always have done and somehow it got round to what we felt about swapping.and the mistake was born


----------



## plastow

Mr.Married said:


> I think this thread should be closed because all we are doing is making him want to go back to his wife for more answers unfortunately. She just wants to let it die.


maybe you do have a point,feelings are strong on this and although ive had some really great help here ive also had some pretty damaging stuff too.


----------



## plastow

Fly With Me said:


> Is this right? It sounds like part of you feels like she had an affair. She broke your agreed boundaries. You are upset about how keen she was once she got past her initial reluctance, you are upset she broke your boundary and went private, you are upset she had a great time without you.
> 
> Mostly you blame yourself but a part of you blames her, doubts her and wants answers. You thought she was a faithful wife who had to be talked into it but you are worried she actually didn't need much talking into it and loved every moment. She was the one who initiated after the initial awkwardness and dove straight in as soon as he got back from the toilet. In all other respects she is a faithful wife but her behaviour in this situation has raised questions for you and you don't know how to get them answered without blaming her for your idea.
> 
> Is that getting close to some of it?


thats pretty damb close


----------



## Fly With Me

plastow said:


> thats pretty damb close


I can see then why this is so hard and I don't have any answers. I think you need to get really honest with yourself. What was it about seeing her with another man that excited you? If it had played out as you had fantasised what would that have given you?


----------



## Rus47

Fly With Me said:


> I can see then why this is so hard and I don't have any answers. I think you need to get really honest with yourself. What was it about seeing her with another man that excited you? If it had played out as you had fantasised what would that have given you?


I will only add that if his wife (and “friend”) had really been into it, wouldnt they have found a way to reconvene again (and again)? Once OPs wife got a taste of forbidden wouldnt she have been wanting it everyday for three meals?

But as far as we and OP know, the wife has been totally faithful except for the one episode years ago which he (and his “friend”) dreamed up. The wife went along and evidently didn’t totally dislike being plowed by the”friend”. But she didn’t continue with him and would rather not even discuss the episode.

The “friend” keeps bringing it up, maybe wanting a repeat. So as long as this guy is in the picture OP can’t forget what happened. What if OP tells “friend” to never bring up the incident again if he wishes to remain friends, that it is a painful memory OP is trying to forget.


----------



## Mr.Married

Y’all are planting ideas in this guys head and leading him down the road of she has blame. In my opinion y’all are giving him the mental food that is just going to hurt him and twist the truth.


----------



## Fly With Me

Mr.Married said:


> Y’all are planting ideas in this guys head and leading him down the road of she has blame. In my opinion y’all are giving him the mental food that is just going to hurt him and twist the truth.


I am trying to get to the root of the issue. I think it is helpful for him. What he does with it may not be helpful I can't control that. 

The fact is he is blaming her. Better to be honest with himself about that and potentially with her too. 

Although personally i think he should get therapy and dig deep into his issues before talking more with her. He needs to get realky honest with first himself, then her. Then it's up to her if she gets honest with him.

Just my perspective. I may be wrong.


----------



## Rus47

Mr.Married said:


> Y’all are planting ideas in this guys head and leading him down the road of she has blame. In my opinion y’all are giving him the mental food that is just going to hurt him and twist the truth.


So how does he forget? Isnt that what he wants to do?


----------



## Mr.Married

Rus47 said:


> So how does he forget? Isnt that what he wants to do?


I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have that answer but dragging his wife back and forth through the past doesn’t seem like the way either.

It’s not nice to say but I think the OP needs to shut his trap and suck that chit up. Welcome to self accountable actions.


----------



## Rus47

Mr.Married said:


> I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have that answer but dragging his wife back and forth through the past doesn’t seem like the way either.
> 
> It’s not nice to say but I think the OP needs to shut his trap and suck that chit up. Welcome to self accountable actions.


I agree totally that the wife has no fault in this event. And OP agrees. 

He (and the “friend) dreamed this up. Wonder if they were drunk at the time lol. And yes, he should stop badgering her for details. Its surprising she hasnt unloaded on him already. Like “honestly he was way better than you will ever be.” Even if she hated it. Just to punish him for the badgering.

To forget, the reminding from the “friend” needs to be stopped.


----------



## Evinrude58

Huge, and odd case of retroactive jealousy, if it’s real. I understand the jealousy, but don’t understand how OP couldn’t predict he’d be jealous over another dude banging his wife.
I mean, respectfully……. Duh


----------



## Blondilocks

Evinrude58 said:


> Huge, and odd case of retroactive jealousy, if it’s real. I understand the jealousy, but don’t understand how OP couldn’t predict he’d be jealous over another dude banging his wife.
> I mean, respectfully……. Duh


It sounds like he was pandering to his best pal from childhood. Mi casa es su casa and all that jazz. He needs therapy to figure out why he endangered his marriage for the sake of a pal. Maybe he's always been the tagalong in the friendship and wanted to impress the creep.

Also, the two of them talking about sex as they've always done is creepy. They are pensioners and acting like kids.


----------



## TexasMom1216

OK, slight threadjack. There have been several posts on here indicating that as people age they shouldn't be sexually adventurous, or shouldn't be sexual... look, amid tears and sadness I turned 50 this year. It will shock some of you to learn, I do not feel that I am at the polyester jumpsuit/orthopedic shoes/blue hair shaped like a football helmet/Golden Girls phase of my life yet. I still like sex, more than I used to as a matter of fact, and I don't see anything wrong with adults whose kids have left exploring their sexuality. They're certainly going to be less inhibited than they were when they were young. There is nothing wrong or weird or off about people of retirement age having sex or being sexually adventurous. OK, rant over.


----------



## harperlee

Blondilocks said:


> It sounds like he was pandering to his best pal from childhood. Mi casa es su casa and all that jazz. He needs therapy to figure out why he endangered his marriage for the sake of a pal. Maybe he's always been the tagalong in the friendship and wanted to impress the creep.
> 
> Also, the two of them talking about sex as they've always done is creepy. They are pensioners and acting like kids.


Yep, it's odd that OP has had discussions with his best bud about what happened but still needs a rehash from his wife.
The whole thread is peculiar.


----------



## Rus47

Blondilocks said:


> It sounds like he was pandering to his best pal from childhood. Mi casa es su casa and all that jazz. He needs therapy to figure out why he endangered his marriage for the sake of a pal. Maybe he's always been the tagalong in the friendship and wanted to impress the creep.
> 
> Also, the two of them talking about sex as they've always done is creepy. They are pensioners and acting like kids.


Maybe they need to get a job since have too much time to dream up foolishness


----------



## Rus47

TexasMom1216 said:


> look, amid *tears and sadness I turned 50 *this year. It will shock some of you to learn, I do not feel that I am at the polyester jumpsuit/orthopedic shoes/blue hair shaped like a football helmet/Golden Girls phase of my life yet.


Sorry, no sympathy from me, since am quarter century older lol. Youngsters think us older people have no sexuallity. Our body just got old while years went by. Inside, in our heart and mind we are just as young as we ever were.

One thing about it, everyone arrives at the same place eventually. I well recall thinking anyone over 30 was ancient.

Our grandkids would be aghast if they knew how Grandma n I spend our afternoons n mornings 😊


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## Tested_by_stress

Let this thread serve as an example of what following through on stupid ideas can get you.


----------



## plastow

Fly With Me said:


> I can see then why this is so hard and I don't have any answers. I think you need to get really honest with yourself. What was it about seeing her with another man that excited you? If it had played out as you had fantasised what would that have given you?


i dont think i can answer that now at the time i imagined all sorts of excitement and fun.as you know it blew up in my face.


----------



## plastow

Rus47 said:


> I will only add that if his wife (and “friend”) had really been into it, wouldnt they have found a way to reconvene again (and again)? Once OPs wife got a taste of forbidden wouldnt she have been wanting it everyday for three meals?
> 
> But as far as we and OP know, the wife has been totally faithful except for the one episode years ago which he (and his “friend”) dreamed up. The wife went along and evidently didn’t totally dislike being plowed by the”friend”. But she didn’t continue with him and would rather not even discuss the episode.
> 
> The “friend” keeps bringing it up, maybe wanting a repeat. So as long as this guy is in the picture OP can’t forget what happened. What if OP tells “friend” to never bring up the incident again if he wishes to remain friends, that it is a painful memory OP is trying to forget.


i think your right when i get him alone i,m going to speak to him about it.


----------



## manwithnoname

plastow said:


> the orgasm was part of the info she gave me


What other info did you want from her? You saw enough to do a number on you, it seems. If they were in the same room and had just started, would you have stopped them immediately? Just wondering what caused the regret.


----------



## TexasMom1216

manwithnoname said:


> What other info did you want from her? You saw enough to do a number on you, it seems. If they were in the same room and had just started, would you have stopped them immediately? Just wondering what caused the regret.


He wasn’t able to perform with the friend’s wife.


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## manwithnoname

TexasMom1216 said:


> He wasn’t able to perform with the friend’s wife.


Really? It could be other reasons. Maybe seeing the friend go to town on his wife, with his wife carrying on in a way he's never witnessed....that seems like it would do the trick. 
If he's already answered this I don't remember seeing it, that's why I asked....him.


----------



## Cynthia

A lot of people have said to leave your wife alone, while others have suggested marriage counseling, along with individual counseling for yourself. I think you should get into individual counseling asap and leave your wife alone about this. Eventually you may want to apologize to her for the whole debacle as well.

Right now, you need to stop thinking about what happened between your wife and your friend. I know it's difficult, but let it go. You need to have emotional maturity to forgive and let go, or you will continue to suffer with nightmares, etc. You have been told, and you know, that you brought this on yourself, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Others have also mentioned that you probably hurt your wife more than you know. But you are not showing emotional maturity in this matter and probably anything you say to her at this point will only make matters worse, so don't say anything. Work on yourself and on letting this go. You will likely need professional help to do so. I recommend you seek help immediately.


----------



## Mr.Married

Stop talking to your friend about it !!!
I’ve heard people give bad advice before but this thread has been the worst for making this guys head run away with crazy nonsense.


----------



## Mr.Married

Cynthia said:


> A lot of people have said to leave your wife alone, while others have suggested marriage counseling, along with individual counseling for yourself. I think you should get into individual counseling asap and leave your wife alone about this. Eventually you may want to apologize to her for the whole debacle as well.
> 
> Right now, you need to stop thinking about what happened between your wife and your friend. I know it's difficult, but let it go. You need to have emotional maturity to forgive and let go, or you will continue to suffer with nightmares, etc. You have been told, and you know, that you brought this on yourself, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Others have also mentioned that you probably hurt your wife more than you know. But you are not showing emotional maturity in this matter and probably anything you say to her at this point will only make matters worse, so don't say anything. Work on yourself and on letting this go. You will likely need professional help to do so. I recommend you seek help immediately.


Amen and spot on (as usual for you)


----------



## Blondilocks

Ditching the childhood friend would be one less trigger. He isn't much of a friend, anyway.


----------



## plastow

Blondilocks said:


> Ditching the childhood friend would be one less trigger. He isn't much of a friend, anyway.


i have received much advice in here some of it good some abusive and some extremely helpful for which i am very grateful.i have shown all of it to my wife as well.we have talked and talked about it now at length.there was stuff out there which neither of us realised.and we both learned a lot but she is relieved at the support she had.i asked her to post on here but she refused saying enough is enough we have to move on.were going out to dinner this evening with a different view of how things are and i,m so happy to say she is ok with how it is, and loves me a great deal ive said i,m so sorry for all of it and i love her so much.wish us luck guys and thank you again whatever your posts contained.i appreciate your efforts.i have at 74 still much to learn.god bless you all .


----------



## Evinrude58

Good luck. I’m very jealous of you and your wife’s 50 years together. May you have many more happy years.


----------



## oldtruck

The problem is that his did his wife know that they had to be in the same room and if she did want Made her think it was OK to go with the OM into a bedroom alone.

Second problem if same room rule was that important why did he not make her
Leave the OM room soon as he found out.

the op needs to ask his wife this and not accept any I do not remembers.


----------



## ConanHub

Mr.Married said:


> Y’all are planting ideas in this guys head and leading him down the road of she has blame. In my opinion y’all are giving him the mental food that is just going to hurt him and twist the truth.


Dude! Your flag keeps changing!!!!! Aren't you loyal?!?!?!?!?😆


----------



## DudeInProgress

oldshirt said:


> My take on this is this is what happens when a university freshman physics major decides it would be fun to make an atomic bomb.


I’m still unable to wrap my head around these situations. I truly struggle to comprehend the level of stupidity, naïveté, and abject lack of wisdom, or even basic common sense in these men. 
Of course it sounds academically exciting for about five minutes until your basic human cognition kicks in and recognizes the highly likely end state.


----------



## ConanHub

Mr.Married said:


> I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have that answer but dragging his wife back and forth through the past doesn’t seem like the way either.
> 
> It’s not nice to say but I think the OP needs to shut his trap and suck that chit up. Welcome to self accountable actions.


Sounds good but mental health doesn't work that way.

OP has a very real problem that just shutting up about and suppressing is actually terrible advice.

OP does have the majority of the blame but his wife isn't innocent in this at all or unconnected or uninvested.

I do believe he needs professional help and I believe they both could use some professional help as a couple.

I don't know enough but I would personally do away with the friendship as a consequence to a very catastrophic decision.

Just rug sweeping or pushing down the issue is actually very terrible advice that often has very bad outcomes.


----------



## ConanHub

Evinrude58 said:


> Good luck. I’m very jealous of you and your wife’s 50 years together. May you have many more happy years.


Seriously.


----------



## Mr.Married

ConanHub said:


> Dude! Your flag keeps changing!!!!! Aren't you loyal?!?!?!?!?😆


ADHD ..... I can’t remember what I said an hour ago or what I was planning to say in 5 seconds 🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Divinely Favored

Cromer said:


> I can only imagine what it must be like from a woman's perspective if her man wanted her to do something like this.
> 
> My wife is not the most assertive person. It's a long story but early on in our relationship, she told me the story about when her ex-husband basically coerced her into having sex with a stranger while he watched. No way in Hell would I ask my woman to do anything like that and I reassured her that I'm not that guy. I'm not shaming kink but it's just not something I'd remotely consider doing. I could barely handle my ex-wife admitting to her affairs.
> 
> My wife remembers every detail and it was painful for her to talk about it but she wanted me to know. I can see how she went along with the situation, she loved her ex and wanted to keep her family together. He spent a long time trying to convince her to do a hotwife/Queen of Spades situation, then basically "ambushed" her into doing it. It was a traumatizing event for her. She finally decided to leave her ex after this happened. She was in therapy for years because of this and other reasons. My wife tells me she finally feels "safe" and I do my best to keep her so.
> 
> What's done is done, but OP you need therapy. Your wife probably does as well.
> 
> Edited: When I say my wife is not the most assertive person, I recognize this and have gone to great lengths to make sure that I get to her true feelings. Frankly, she fears rejection and that she would be rejected because of something she thinks or has done. This is a result of events long embedded in her past. Thankfully she has really blossomed in the past year and now has an IDGF attitude when talking about her opinions/feelings. I LOVE it!


I know what you mean. My wife has transformed from the woman I met, leaving a serial cheater she married at 17 while trying to get away from a violent/abusive father.

It takes years of TLC to undo the damaged programming that is put into one's brain at early age

Luckily the dad X'ed himself so I did not have to do it for the POS. To see someone with my wife he would get the .45 or the Ka-Bar. Sorry but I am violently monogamous. #,


----------



## Divinely Favored

Mybabysgotit said:


> I was kind of thinking the same thing. I would imagine if my wife had sex with someone else, there's a real chance she would find out how good she had it all along and give me some more respect up in here...


But she would not be allowed to come back to my bed. Done!


----------



## Diana7

plastow said:


> i have received much advice in here some of it good some abusive and some extremely helpful for which i am very grateful.i have shown all of it to my wife as well.we have talked and talked about it now at length.there was stuff out there which neither of us realised.and we both learned a lot but she is relieved at the support she had.i asked her to post on here but she refused saying enough is enough we have to move on.were going out to dinner this evening with a different view of how things are and i,m so happy to say she is ok with how it is, and loves me a great deal ive said i,m so sorry for all of it and i love her so much.wish us luck guys and thank you again whatever your posts contained.i appreciate your efforts.i have at 74 still much to learn.god bless you all .


As long as we learn from past stupid decisions they are not entirely wasted. God bless you both.


----------



## plastow

Diana7 said:


> As long as we learn from past stupid decisions they are not entirely wasted. God bless you both.


hi guys just letting you know i hada long talk with my wife who said she did not know if the other guy actually entered her as he couldnt stay hard.when i explained that he told me he had held her legs up and entered her that way she hesitated and said again he may have raised my legs but i,m sure he didnt enter me..ive decided i,m going to get nowhere with this and we are now trying to ignore it.ive got a councellor to see and my wife said if need be she will come along too.its still hurting but i feel much happier with this and can actually sleep ok .thank you for all the support and some of the negative things too which i know i would also feel.i,m trying.i know i,m not the brightest spark in the fire but i,m going to give it my best shot.we are still in love.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

plastow said:


> hi guys just letting you know i hada long talk with my wife who said she did not know if the other guy actually entered her as he couldnt stay hard.when i explained that he told me he had held her legs up and entered her that way she hesitated and said again he may have raised my legs but i,m sure he didnt enter me..ive decided i,m going to get nowhere with this and we are now trying to ignore it.ive got a councellor to see and my wife said if need be she will come along too.its still hurting but i feel much happier with this and can actually sleep ok .thank you for all the support and some of the negative things too which i know i would also feel.i,m trying.i know i,m not the brightest spark in the fire but i,m going to give it my best shot.we are still in love.


So happy to hear that. You do really sound like you are both in love and this was just a bad mistake. Do what you can to make it a blip on the radar in the past and enjoy your time with her.


----------



## Anastasia6

plastow said:


> hi guys just letting you know i hada long talk with my wife who said she did not know if the other guy actually entered her as he couldnt stay hard.when i explained that he told me he had held her legs up and entered her that way she hesitated and said again he may have raised my legs but i,m sure he didnt enter me..ive decided i,m going to get nowhere with this and we are now trying to ignore it.ive got a councellor to see and my wife said if need be she will come along too.its still hurting but i feel much happier with this and can actually sleep ok .thank you for all the support and some of the negative things too which i know i would also feel.i,m trying.i know i,m not the brightest spark in the fire but i,m going to give it my best shot.we are still in love.


Sure the old we got naked but nothing actually happened. IN the past you said she had an orgasm. You said your friend gave you details. _wink_ _wink_ sounds like she is still trying to make you happy. At least she loves you.


----------



## Evinrude58

plastow said:


> hi guys just letting you know i hada long talk with my wife who said she did not know if the other guy actually entered her as he couldnt stay hard.when i explained that he told me he had held her legs up and entered her that way she hesitated and said again he may have raised my legs but i,m sure he didnt enter me..ive decided i,m going to get nowhere with this and we are now trying to ignore it.ive got a councellor to see and my wife said if need be she will come along too.its still hurting but i feel much happier with this and can actually sleep ok .thank you for all the support and some of the negative things too which i know i would also feel.i,m trying.i know i,m not the brightest spark in the fire but i,m going to give it my best shot.we are still in love.


She’s lying to you, that would hurt too. Guys that can’t get it up don’t come over for a wife swap, and women know damn well when a man “enters them”….

maybe that’s why you can’t get over the stuff you started. Your wife won’t tell you the truth.

Stop the bs on YOUR part. Just assume your wife had mind numbing multiple orgasms with another dude at YOUR own request, and let it go. You are just constantly pain shopping and you’re hurting your wife. The only thing she did was what you wanted her to do. Stop punishing her for it, and stop punishing yourself. This was 100% your mistake. Own it, move on.

btw, if you can stand to, I’d be interested to know what kind of thrill you’d get from SEEING your wife get plowed by another man, if you still think you’d like to see that happen, and if not—-/ why not now?


----------



## Blondilocks

Evinrude58 said:


> She’s lying to you, that would hurt too. Guys that can’t get it up don’t come over for a wife swap, and women know damn well when a man “enters them”….
> 
> maybe that’s why you can’t get over the stuff you started. Your wife won’t tell you the truth.
> 
> Stop the bs on YOUR part. Just assume your wife had mind numbing multiple orgasms with another dude at YOUR own request, and let it go. You are just constantly pain shopping and you’re hurting your wife. The only thing she did was what you wanted her to do. Stop punishing her for it, and stop punishing yourself. This was 100% your mistake. Own it, move on.
> 
> btw, if you can stand to, I’d be interested to know *what kind of thrill you’d get from SEEING your wife get plowed by another man*, if you still think you’d like to see that happen, and if not—-/ why not now?


Not just any man - his bestest pal from childhood.🤮


----------



## jonty30

plastow said:


> ive answered many so far and yes it was the very first and last time i had even thought about it.i also think many who have had a go at me,can honestly say they have never had a thought about something like it.it was a huge mistake and ione i will regret till the day i die.the posts ive had have made me realise just how bad i was.i,m not questioning that.i have apologised a hundred fold to my wife.i dont really understand why i got so carried away ,but my wife also got carried away with it once she said yes and couldnt wait to do so.i,m not questioning any of that.but i still have this burning feeling she is not telling me all the truth about her actions on the night i remember every single word act and detail.but she says she cannot remember.the things she has told me dont correspond with what my mate has told me.and in fact we chatted about it only yesterday and i told her what my mate told me they had done and she again said she doesnt remember.how could you not remember such a night.i will get help on this but i need the truth first .i,m not blaming her one bit but i am mixed up as to why would one tell me in detail and one cant remember.


Many of us have thought about being unfaithful. It can't be helped. We all have responses to attractive people and our attractions are biologically based, but most of understand in having wisdom in not fulfilling those desires if it means being unfaithful to our spouse and not having integrity about ourselves.

Many of us also have the wisdom of deliberately living incurious lives when it comes to being curious about other options with the opposite gender..


----------



## jonty30

Rus47 said:


> Sorry, no sympathy from me, since am quarter century older lol. Youngsters think us older people have no sexuallity. Our body just got old while years went by. Inside, in our heart and mind we are just as young as we ever were.
> 
> One thing about it, everyone arrives at the same place eventually. I well recall thinking anyone over 30 was ancient.
> 
> Our grandkids would be aghast if they knew how Grandma n I spend our afternoons n mornings 😊


I feel like I did when I was 25 and able to run as far as I wanted to.
I feel like that, until I get up to do something.


----------



## jonty30

manwithnoname said:


> Really? It could be other reasons. Maybe seeing the friend go to town on his wife, with his wife carrying on in a way he's never witnessed....that seems like it would do the trick.
> If he's already answered this I don't remember seeing it, that's why I asked....him.


It could be that was the plan. His friend knew that he could get it up, but the inexperienced OP would be too intimidated to do so. 
So, his friend got a side action and still retained a faithful. wife.


----------



## plastow

Evinrude58 said:


> She’s lying to you, that would hurt too. Guys that can’t get it up don’t come over for a wife swap, and women know damn well when a man “enters them”….
> 
> maybe that’s why you can’t get over the stuff you started. Your wife won’t tell you the truth.
> 
> Stop the bs on YOUR part. Just assume your wife had mind numbing multiple orgasms with another dude at YOUR own request, and let it go. You are just constantly pain shopping and you’re hurting your wife. The only thing she did was what you wanted her to do. Stop punishing her for it, and stop punishing yourself. This was 100% your mistake. Own it, move on.
> 
> btw, if you can stand to, I’d be interested to know what kind of thrill you’d get from SEEING your wife get plowed by another man, if you still think you’d like to see that happen, and if not—-/ why not now?


hi i imagined the thrill being how sexy she was and how she could bring the other guy to orgasm.dont forget i would have been having sex with his wife too.i,m sure it would have happened if we were in the same room but i will never know and most certainly do never want a repeat.i do love my wife dearly and have done since i was 16 and she was 15.that has never changed despite what people in here say we are very much in love.i need to get this crap out of my head.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

plastow said:


> hi i imagined the thrill being how sexy she was and how she could bring the other guy to orgasm.dont forget i would have been having sex with his wife too.i,m sure it would have happened if we were in the same room but i will never know and most certainly do never want a repeat.i do love my wife dearly and have done since i was 16 and she was 15.that has never changed despite what people in here say we are very much in love.i need to get this crap out of my head.


You really cant get it out of your head. What is the first thing you think of when when someone says DON'T think of a pink flying monkey? The more you try to forget the more you focus on it. You need to learn to let the thoughts just come, recognize them and let them float away as you move on to something else. You can't control the thoughts, but with practice you can control your reaction to them. I used to have a strong emotional reaction to thoughts of my wife's ex-fiancé, moderate retroactive jealousy. She hasn't been with him for almost 35 years! I know it isn't exactly the same as you. Honestly my issues were much less rational than yours, but I had lots of mental images and thoughts. Even though they were things I never even witnessed. I would try to forget, and it never worked. Over time I was able to come to terms with the thoughts and changed my reaction to them. They come in, yep that happened, then move along. Check out mindfulness exercises. They can help you calm you mind. They have worked wonders for me for many things.


----------



## TonyM

plastow said:


> this happened 7 years ago but is as painful today as it was then.i talked my wife into swapping with close pals just for the thrill of seeing her with another man .so i know its my fault.we were in their house all nervous and trying to make small talk when my wife said to the other guy come on lets start but he said he had to go to the toilet and i said likewise leaving the 2 women alone in the lounge.on returning the place was in darkness and my wife had gone into another room with the guy with the door shut.i called out you could have waited until i came back and we are supposed to stay in the same room.i felt excluded from my wife for the first time in 50 years of marriage.i tried to have some kind of sex with the other woman but could not stop thinking of what they may be doing alone in that room.my wife nor any of them understodd when i opened the door and told them to stop.which they did.we all sat in the lounge and all my wife would say was it was your idea.i kept repeating i wantd to be there with her not alone with another woman excluded from her .it took ages for me to recover from that but not after all this time i have repeated nightmares about what they may have done,when i ask my wife she says she does not remember and details which ive told her is rubbish as he was only the second man to have been to bed with her so she emembers well but wont talk it out with me.it there any hope i will be able to forget this episode.


Communication is key! Sounds like this was discussed and boundaries were not followed thus leading to the problems. Doing this type of activity also requires total trust between partners. Ours began with sex talk and fantasy talk, then with toys and then later with some friends. While any action is few and far between, We discuss every detail and we are always in the same room. For us, we enjoy it and would even branch out to others but we're afraid of broaching the subject with anyone else. 
Now, as far as her not wanting to discuss it, I see both couples and possibly individual counseling as a must. Keep the communication lines open and keep it civil. Explain your thoughts and feelings and how it hurts you and is affecting the relationship. Best wishes moving forward.


----------



## chazmataz33

Have you tried explaining to her that the reason it still bothers you is that your expectations of the event were not met and the fact that she was alone the other room with the the other guy was just way uncomfortable and the mind movies are just to much for you.Can you explain that you dont want to control her but the best part of the experience for you was watching her enjoying a new sexual experience and those expectations were not met and so you dont know how to process what actually happened vs your expectations. (good luck with that).can you explain that the mind movies and the fact that the fear of the unknown are what are driving your thoughts.


----------



## red oak

plastow said:


> hi i imagined the thrill being how sexy she was and how she could bring the other guy to orgasm.dont forget i would have been having sex with his wife too.i,m sure it would have happened if we were in the same room but i will never know and most certainly do never want a repeat.i do love my wife dearly and have done since i was 16 and she was 15.that has never changed despite what people in here say we are very much in love.i need to get this crap out of my head.


She don’t trust you to be able to handle it or she really has blacked it out. Intentionally not wanting to remember. 
If she is still being her old self with you apologize, to each other and go on with life. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## plastow

TonyM said:


> Communication is key! Sounds like this was discussed and boundaries were not followed thus leading to the problems. Doing this type of activity also requires total trust between partners. Ours began with sex talk and fantasy talk, then with toys and then later with some friends. While any action is few and far between, We discuss every detail and we are always in the same room. For us, we enjoy it and would even branch out to others but we're afraid of broaching the subject with anyone else.
> Now, as far as her not wanting to discuss it, I see both couples and possibly individual counseling as a must. Keep the communication lines open and keep it civil. Explain your thoughts and feelings and how it hurts you and is affecting the relationship. Best wishes moving forward.


thank you tony,thats good advice.we will not be going back to trying it again but did feel at the time it would be exciting,but i was not prepared for the jealousy it brought .i still wonder how it would have been had we stayed i the same room.but will never know.so best to stay away from swapping. we are very much in love despite what many in here think and my wife has given me wonderful support and indeed we seem closer now than ever and we now talk about that and many other things we didnt before.so something good has come out of it even if it was a painful process.and yes our communication wasnt good enough with each other and with the other couple.ive had very good support and advice in here and it has helped but many have just used it as a platform to attack me .i was wrong i admit that as we were not really prepared for what happened so didnt take enough care.as for respect i have more respect for my wife now than i did before as i view her in a different way knowing she is a person in her own right and i have to work on the relationship to keep it in good health.ive gotten the bad feelings out of my system at last and i believe this site has helped a lot.my wife is more loving to me than she has been in years and i,m the same to her .ive been feeling as though ive just discovered her again and feel excited to see her as the sexy woman i married.it woke me up.


----------



## Diana7

plastow said:


> thank you tony,thats good advice.we will not be going back to trying it again but did feel at the time it would be exciting,but i was not prepared for the jealousy it brought .i still wonder how it would have been had we stayed i the same room.but will never know.so best to stay away from swapping. we are very much in love despite what many in here think and my wife has given me wonderful support and indeed we seem closer now than ever and we now talk about that and many other things we didnt before.so something good has come out of it even if it was a painful process.and yes our communication wasnt good enough with each other and with the other couple.ive had very good support and advice in here and it has helped but many have just used it as a platform to attack me .i was wrong i admit that as we were not really prepared for what happened so didnt take enough care.as for respect i have more respect for my wife now than i did before as i view her in a different way knowing she is a person in her own right and i have to work on the relationship to keep it in good health.ive gotten the bad feelings out of my system at last and i believe this site has helped a lot.my wife is more loving to me than she has been in years and i,m the same to her .ive been feeling as though ive just discovered her again and feel excited to see her as the sexy woman i married.it woke me up.


Thats very positive. As long as we learn from our mistakes and bad decisions its not all wasted.


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## plastow

chazmataz33 said:


> Have you tried explaining to her that the reason it still bothers you is that your expectations of the event were not met and the fact that she was alone the other room with the the other guy was just way uncomfortable and the mind movies are just to much for you.Can you explain that you dont want to control her but the best part of the experience for you was watching her enjoying a new sexual experience and those expectations were not met and so you dont know how to process what actually happened vs your expectations. (good luck with that).can you explain that the mind movies and the fact that the fear of the unknown are what are driving your thoughts.


thank you for that i think you hit it on the head but now its something i have to exorcise from my mind not easy but it is getting easier


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## plastow

TonyM said:


> Communication is key! Sounds like this was discussed and boundaries were not followed thus leading to the problems. Doing this type of activity also requires total trust between partners. Ours began with sex talk and fantasy talk, then with toys and then later with some friends. While any action is few and far between, We discuss every detail and we are always in the same room. For us, we enjoy it and would even branch out to others but we're afraid of broaching the subject with anyone else.
> Now, as far as her not wanting to discuss it, I see both couples and possibly individual counseling as a must. Keep the communication lines open and keep it civil. Explain your thoughts and feelings and how it hurts you and is affecting the relationship. Best wishes moving forward.


thank you so much


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## plastow

ConanHub said:


> Dude! Your flag keeps changing!!!!! Aren't you loyal?!?!?!?!?😆


confused rather than changed


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## plastow

Evinrude58 said:


> She’s lying to you, that would hurt too. Guys that can’t get it up don’t come over for a wife swap, and women know damn well when a man “enters them”….
> 
> maybe that’s why you can’t get over the stuff you started. Your wife won’t tell you the truth.
> 
> Stop the bs on YOUR part. Just assume your wife had mind numbing multiple orgasms with another dude at YOUR own request, and let it go. You are just constantly pain shopping and you’re hurting your wife. The only thing she did was what you wanted her to do. Stop punishing her for it, and stop punishing yourself. This was 100% your mistake. Own it, move on.
> 
> btw, if you can stand to, I’d be interested to know what kind of thrill you’d get from SEEING your wife get plowed by another man, if you still think you’d like to see that happen, and if not—-/ why not now?


the thrill of seeing her enjoy it and also her ability to make another man cum.but i dont feel like that any more


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## chazmataz33

I feel good for you and your wife.seems you guys are in a good place.wife and I had spat last week and afterwards we sat down and worked through it with some different skills I learned on here.we both seem to be revitalized and almost like teens again.go tam


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## TonyM

plastow said:


> thank you tony,thats good advice.we will not be going back to trying it again but did feel at the time it would be exciting,but i was not prepared for the jealousy it brought .i still wonder how it would have been had we stayed i the same room.but will never know.so best to stay away from swapping. we are very much in love despite what many in here think and my wife has given me wonderful support and indeed we seem closer now than ever and we now talk about that and many other things we didnt before.so something good has come out of it even if it was a painful process.and yes our communication wasnt good enough with each other and with the other couple.ive had very good support and advice in here and it has helped but many have just used it as a platform to attack me .i was wrong i admit that as we were not really prepared for what happened so didnt take enough care.as for respect i have more respect for my wife now than i did before as i view her in a different way knowing she is a person in her own right and i have to work on the relationship to keep it in good health.ive gotten the bad feelings out of my system at last and i believe this site has helped a lot.my wife is more loving to me than she has been in years and i,m the same to her .ive been feeling as though ive just discovered her again and feel excited to see her as the sexy woman i married.it woke me up.


Glad to hear that you've found some positive out of the situation. Plenty of haters and judgemental people whether here or wherever. Keep focusing on the positive you've found and build on that.


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## Divinely Favored

Question...do your friends know the situation and issue that you are having with it? Why you have an issue you do, that she went against your wishes?


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## plastow

Divinely Favored said:


> Question...do your friends know the situation and issue that you are having with it? Why you have an issue you do, that she went against your wishes?


we have never discussed it with them again and we see each other often,there are things i would have liked to ask them but i think it better to let sleeping dogs lie now as i,m feeling much better about things and my wife and i are getting on better than we have done even before the swap so its much better now.


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## Divinely Favored

If it is ever brought up, I would explain to them the issues you had with how it went down and you know it is not buddy's doing, it is your wife who violated the boundaries.


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## Mr.Married

The best thing the OP can do is ask to delete this thread. He has already settled the situation and it’s like ripping the bandaid off every time someone post here.

Just my opinion…..


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## plastow

can anyone tell me how i can now close this post,i think my wife and i are sorted now and i,m a hell of a lot better .thank you all for the help i needed and got and also some of the hard truths ive swallowed and acted on .


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