# Are we me really THAT simple?



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Is it that the only things that we need and what defines us is just food , sex and sports?
I have seen this view of men a couple of times and I usually take it as comic relief.

But could it be that some men are selling themselves short , sabotaging their relationships , and setting them up for failure , simply because they refuse to demand that they be treated with equal respect as women?
I have NEVER met a simple man who only wanted sex and food in my life.
I have NEVER met a simple woman who only wanted sex and money in my life.

I view people as complex multi-dimensional creatures , each with different layers of consciousness , subjective to biology and social constructs, but with the capacity to sublimate even our most basic instincts for something of higher value.
So that even though a man is biologically wired to be sexually aroused by a woman, he is not sexually aroused by his daughter or mother, neither does he rape women.
Whereas ,a woman is biologically wired to be sexually attracted to the symmetry , strength and manliness of a man , she is not sexually attracted to her father ,neither does she sell sex to random ,strange men for money.

Yesterday while I was at the supplement store purchasing my protein powder, the " twentysomething - ish " salesgirl who I was chatting with got a call from her dad wishing her happy valentine's day. She was all smiley, bubbly and happy, as she wished her dad the same.She ended the conversation with 
"..._I love you too daddy_.." 
After she hung up, she told me that her dad had ordered some flowers, and had it delivered to the store.

So I asked her how come? What about your boyfriend?
She said she and her boyfriend just had a nasty breakup , so her dad was actually trying to cheer her up for Valentine's day....
There are many women I know who absolutely love and respect their fathers,husbands and other men in their lives. 
Many fathers I know, who would kill if someone disrespected their mothers ,wives and daughters.
And yet ,
Some say men are just , so simple.
I reject any notion of that.

Men are you really _*THAT*_ *simple?*


----------



## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

I suspect life would be far easier if I was less complex.

The hardest thing of all to figure out is yourself.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

GTdad said:


> I suspect life would be far easier if I was less complex.
> 
> The hardest thing of all to figure out is yourself.


:iagree: x100%

And in fact , every single day , I embark on a journey trying to figure out....
ME.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

If men were really that simple, women would rule the world.

Wait..........................


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

In my personal experience men aren't simple.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

I have to agree that men aren't simple, emotionally, socially or biologically . 

It is one of the pitfalls of the modern man to think he is simple. That destroys his need to understand his own feelings or thoughts. A person who thinks he is simple, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Thus he is enslaved easily by false societal beliefs and capitalistic ideologies.


----------



## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

You guys make some great points and as soon as I finish my hoagie, I'm going to jump right in.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Amplexor said:


> You guys make some great points and as soon as I finish my hoagie, I'm going to jump right in.


LOL


----------



## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

THAT simple, no, but a judiciously applied steak and blow job can go a long way to help "solve a man's complexities".


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Is it that the only things that we need and what defines us is just food , sex and sports?
> I have seen this view of men a couple of times and I usually take it as comic relief.
> 
> But could it be that some men are selling themselves short , sabotaging their relationships , and setting them up for failure , simply because they refuse to demand that they be treated with equal respect as women?
> ...


Simple is in the eye of the beholder. Someone who has a simplistic view will see what they want to see.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

CharlieParker said:


> THAT simple, no, but a judiciously applied steak and blow job can go a long way to help "solve a man's complexities".


I do believe men feel more comfortable in their skin and they will happy easier than women. But does that really account to simplicity?


----------



## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

I think the notion that men are simple is an over simplification. 

I think as a very GENERALIZATION, men are inherently simpler that women, but there are plenty of exceptions to that.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Simple is in the eye of the beholder. Someone who has a simplistic view will see what they want to see.


I agree,
That's why I said that no person is simple. I think comments like that are meant to be contemptuous of masculinity .
Initially it was meant for comic relief, directed at the
" Homer Simpson " stereotypes , now it is being used in generalized statements, often said in , condescending, pejorative tones.

Being addicted to sex does not make a man simple. There are many sex addicts sitting in the corridors of power.

Having a love for good food and beer does not make a man simple. The Vikings also loved good food and beer and are master shipbuilders, in fact, they are the best on the planet.

Being passionate about a sport and _your _team does not make a man simple. 

In any Commonwealth country, Cricket is the king of sports, Australia , India ,Pakistan ,England , Ireland ,South Africa and the Caribbean. Attend any Cricket match or the world cup and you would see as much as men who are passionate fanatics of the game. rich and poor alike.

My argument is, if love of these things really made a man simple, what exactly makes a woman simple?
Or is that only men are *that* simple?


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I do believe men feel more comfortable in their skin and they will happy easier than women. But does that really account to simplicity?


My point exactly.
I think men want to be understood by women , so they just try to make things simple.
The more complex issues, they deal with it inside of themselves because it is how we are cultured.
Men think of themselves and work on themselves.
The understand that nobody gives a damn about their shyt,
_ they_ have to fix it.
A lot of times we pay dearly for that. But does that make us simple?


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I love sex, beer and football. In fact, a weekend in heaven for me is to spend it in a hotel with my hubby having lots of sex and going to a football game and/or watching football on TV or in the bar while drinking beer. We spent Valentines day evening drinking beer and talking about football. Does that make me simple??

It irks me when people generalize about stuff, especially people. Saying men are simple is just sexist.


----------



## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

A comedian once said this


" Men have three basic needs food, sleep, and sex. I can do all of those by myself, in my truck.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> My point exactly.
> I think men want to be understood by women , so they just try to make things simple.
> The more complex issues, they deal with it inside of themselves because it is how we are cultured.
> Men think of themselves and work on themselves.
> ...


And my point was that complex issues are more easily dealt with when men, or at least I, are well fed and well sexed.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

CharlieParker said:


> complex issues are more easily dealt with when men *and women* are well fed and well sexed.


fixed it for you


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

As my good friend Kosh Naranek would say; _"A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles."_ Which pretty zen in its laconic extreme. 

Of course we're simple. How you think about that is very complex.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> As my good friend Kosh Naranek would say; _"A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles."_ Which pretty zen in its laconic extreme.
> 
> Of course we're simple. How you think about that is very complex.


"..._A herring is just a herring, but a good cigar is a Cuban_...."


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I think men can be more easily contented perhaps. But not simple. We tend to internalize more. Maybe that gives us the appearance of simplicity. My wife will be the first to tell you that I am an enigma to her. Just when she thinks she understands me, she realizes she doesn't. She seems simple to understand for me. We're odd that way I guess. Delightfully so.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

I don't think anyone is that simple.

You have to consider how you were raised too.

Men do a lot of things to get noticed at work and strive for promotions. Some care about that and others don't.

Some men are fussy neatniks and others are slobs.

If all we are is sex, food, and entertainment then we are just like any other animal.

I think Maslow's hierarchy of needs explains things pretty well.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> I think men can be more easily contented perhaps. But not simple. *We tend to internalize more. Maybe that gives us the appearance of simplicity. *


:iagree:

The food and sport or a hobby helps up to decompress , and we tend to use it as a coping mechanism when faced with the tremendous pressures of pleasing our employer , providing food, shelter and security for our family and keeping our wife emotionally satisfied enough to want to have good sex with us.

It may appear simple to those inclined to think that way ,but like RLD says,
".._A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles_.."


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Is it that the only things that we need and what defines us is just food , sex and sports?
> I have seen this view of men a couple of times and I usually take it as comic relief.
> 
> But could it be that some men are selling themselves short , sabotaging their relationships , and setting them up for failure , simply because they refuse to demand that they be treated with equal respect as women?
> ...


There are at lest 4 recent threads started by men who married women who had kids from previous relationships who they were raising as their own. Simple men would not do ths . 

There are so many threads started by men with expression of such love and fidelity that it makes you want to cry. 

Again several men who stay married and faithful for years to women who starve them of sex, or who are crazy and abusive. A simple man would run being that part of the equation is missing. 

If they are here then they must be all over the place. I know men who love their wives and like women, are good providers. Some of them have a passion for classical music, the theater, reading books about subjects other than how to win at the race track. 

I think it is a joke with a tiny gain of truth. At times, some men can be single minded. Just like some women can talk incessantly about the most inane topics. The latest spring colors comes to mind. 

A tiny portion of truth does not a man make. No men are not simple. Maybe they think they should be because everyone says so but they are not. 

I am puzzled though, why do men more than women say these things about themselves.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> There are at lest 4 recent threads started by men who married women who had kids from previous relationships who they were raising as their own.
> 
> These are just the latest. There are some veteran posters like Conrad who was very involved with his wife's children. There are so many threads started by men with expression of such love and fidelity that it makes you want to cry.
> 
> ...


Maybe you need to go over the thread, align its contents with its contextuality, and then go over my original post in this thread, especially this line:

"..._.I view people as complex multi-dimensional creatures , each with different layers of consciousness , subjective to biology and social constructs, but with the capacity to sublimate even our most basic instincts for something of higher value_..."

One of the " simplest " men who ever lived was Albert Einstein.
His grade school teachers thought he was too dumb, so he dropped out.
He was a considered a dreamer who was also a loner.
He almost flunked college.
He tried to get into the Swiss army but they refused him because He was not physically fit.
He barely managed to get a low paying job.
AND he even managed to get his girlfriend pregnant. [ Yes he liked sex ]

So how did he manage to come up with his famous 
" theory of relativity " and his ground breaking theory, on matter and energy that changed the course of history and launched humanity into the nuclear age?

He was never just " simple ."
As a child he used to ask himself , what would a beam of light look like if you caught up with it?
That is what he dreamt of and tried figuring out.that's what occupied his mind when they said he was a " dreamer."

When he finally figured it out he came up with this;E = mc2, or his theory of special relativity.

And he thought about all of that complex stuff, whilst thinking of ,dreaming of , lusting about sex with his girlfriend / wife, and maybe even other women.

It doesn't take any effort for a man to look at a woman and think about sex ,
In fact he could look at a strange woman and think about sex whilst driving his suv, talking to his wife on the phone, texting his colleagues at work, and making a mental note of a funny ,knocking noise in the engine, all at the same time.
Men can multi task too.

Despite what you think, a man's sexuality is not subjective to a woman's opinion of it. She is free to think of it degrading , dirty , sick or any thing. It does not change how he's biologically wired.

Men are not simple and there is absolute no truth, not even a grain, to the fallacy.


----------



## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Don't forget alcohol. We need that too.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

gbrad said:


> Don't forget alcohol. We need that too.


That comes under the " food" section.


----------



## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

All really good answers. I think there are many reasons why men are perceived as "simple":

1) The media portrays us that way. Watch any sitcom created since the early 90s and you'll this stereotype pushed ad nauseum. Just like every woman is portrayed as a whiny, naggy, sex-hating shrew.

2) We internalize much of our conflict (great answer sandc!) so as to not appear weak to our bosses, coworkers, and wives. We feel like we have to save the world every day, and any talk about icky feelings might undermine others' confidence that we could accomplish that.

3) We're under a lot of pressure at work to be leaders, always have the answer, and to get that major project finished on time and under budget. After 40 hours a week of that (if not more), sometimes we just want to come home and veg out. And that's really too bad, I've found spending quality time with my W, esp exercising, to be a more effective stress reliever than the TV.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Maybe you need to go over the thread, align its contents with its contextuality, and then go over my original post in this thread, especially this line:
> 
> "..._.I view people as complex multi-dimensional creatures , each with different layers of consciousness , subjective to biology and social constructs, but with the capacity to sublimate even our most basic instincts for something of higher value_..."
> 
> ...


Oh I thought this thread was started to discuss new business, that's why I took some of the content out of my post. 

However, you seemed to have decreed that you will brook no rebuttal. It your thread so I guess you get to steer it in the direction you wish it to go.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> He tried to get into the Swiss army but they refused him because He was not physically fit.
> He barely managed to get a low paying job.
> AND he even managed to get his girlfriend pregnant. [ Yes he liked sex ]
> 
> ...


I will offer one rebuttal, your reference to Einstein in the context of a simple man. 

He was never considered simple. Rather, his intelligence was so unique that it was not recognized as such. 

His life in science was at variance with his ordinary beginnings which showed no signs of his facility in physics. He was not considered simple, he was considered ordinary.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Trenton said:


> Albert Einstein...oh how I enjoy reading him. The book Letters to Solovine...oh how it rocked my world.


........and he created the atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki that killed almost 250,000 people, and permanently blinded and disfigured hundreds of thousands more......

_Men are not simple._


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I think we are simple to please.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I will offer one rebuttal, your reference to Einstein in the context of a simple man.
> 
> He was never considered simple. Rather, his intelligence was so unique that it was not recognized as such.
> 
> His life in science was at variance with his ordinary beginnings which showed no signs of his facility in physics. He was not considered simple, he seemed ordinary.


Einstein was asked by teachers NOT to return to school, because they thought it was impossible for him to learn and he was a distraction to other students.
He was refused entry into the army because he was considered too weak.
He failed the entrance exam for college.
He could only manage a low paying job.
He got his girlfriend pregnant out of wedlock which was was unthinkable in those times, he could barely maintain his wife and still had three more children....

Because he was considered as simple by the outside world, he did what men do. He went inside , worked on stuff that was important to him, and then he found the answers.
After that,
Everyone recognized him for his work.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> ........and he created the atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki that killed almost 250,000 people, and permanently blinded and disfigured hundreds of thousands more......
> 
> _Men are not simple._


He didn't create the atomic bomb. He uncoveded the mystery of the subatomic universe that made it possible for a group of scientist to harness atomic energy. 

He met with Roosevelt and asked him not to use the bomb. He was a pacifist and he opposed nuclear warfare.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> I agree,
> That's why I said that no person is simple. I think comments like that are meant to be contemptuous of masculinity .
> Initially it was meant for comic relief, directed at the
> " Homer Simpson " stereotypes , now it is being used in generalized statements, often said in , condescending, pejorative tones.
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Some of us are simply awesome sir.

I am simple in many ways.

I require the complete and enduring love and respect of a good woman. I have this. I am simple this way.

I enjoy a childs smile and the look of awe and surprise in their eyes of the wonderment that is life. I am simple this way.

I love walking on the beach with my wife and watching the sun go down. I am simple this way.

I loved this year watching my daughter when she graduted with her masters with high honors from the Univeristy where I taught. She makes me so very proud. I am simple this way.

I enjoy the simple pleasure of having a drink with my dearest friends and colleagues.

I simply enjoy the rewards of hard and sustained work when my project is ready to go live. This happens this coming week. This comes with the very simple love I have for my team that has stuck with me and sacrificed much. I am humbled by them and their respect and dedication they have shown to me. There was nothing simple about the two years plus we have put in so far. Lesser men and women would have dropped by the wayside. Some did. This begins our next phase that will take our companies technology to the next higher level. I am simple this way.

I simply feel honor to be associated with my brothers in arms and other veterans ... especially THE TEAMS. They fight for those who cannot fight for themselves. They are simple that way. I have made this part of my personal code to fight for those who cannot. I am simple this way.

I do have a profound satisfaction when my wife and I make love. I am simple this way.

I love the my reflection of myself in her eyes. I am simple this way.

I love the feel of her touch and her breath. The sound of her voice. The feel of her presence even when she is away. She is forever in my heart. I am simple this way.

I am so excited that my grandaughter will be inducing labor on Sunday and giving birth to our great grandaughter. I am simply grateful.

But in general I am so thankful for being able to touch the lives I have so far on this life. Tomorrow is promised to no one.

I chose my login name very carefully. I am in awe of the universe and know that I can never fully comprehend it. Yet we try. I am simple this way.

I am a man. I strive to be a quality man. For myself and my family. 

Many know they can count on me.

I am simple this way.

There are many men who do it right and I can only hope to emulate. They are simple that way.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Einstein was asked by teachers NOT to return to school, because they thought it was impossible for him to learn and he was a distraction to other students.
> He was refused entry into the army because he was considered too weak.
> He failed the entrance exam for college.
> He could only manage a low paying job.
> ...


I am just challenging your interpretation of his early beginnings as being considered simple by anyone. Your assumption about the route he took to his work is at varience with the facts. 

He actually had Asperger syndrome. He did not go inside because of childhood traumas, he was always inside his head. That was part of his genus. 

Your version is more romantic though.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> He didn't create the atomic bomb. He uncoveded the mystery of the subatomic universe that made it possible for a group of scientist to harness atomic energy.
> 
> He met with Roosevelt and asked him not to use the bomb. He was a pacifist and he opposed nuclear warfare.


Roosevelt and the US government paid Einstein and a group of German physicists to come to the USA to live and develop the atomic bomb, after the fall of Hitler.
That was the ONLY REASON they brought him and his family there.
The Russians were also trying to get him, along with the best German physicists.
At the end of Germany , the atomic race had officially begun.

[ Have a look at the Manhattan Project ]

After that bomb was dropped, Einstein said he regretted it, But it was too late.
He became a pacifist.


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

These days if had an inability to pay attention or get along with others, Einstein likely would have been labeled Attention Deficit, and he would have been on medication, and perhaps never reached his potential. 

Also - Einstein supposedly liked to wear women's shoes (there are photos) - so he's obviously evidence that no, men aren't simple, and can be rather complex.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I am just challenging your interpretation of his early beginnings as being considered simple by anyone. Your assumption about the route he took to his work is at varience with the facts.
> 
> He actually had Asperger syndrome. He did not go inside because of childhood traumas, he was always inside his head. That was part of his genus.
> 
> Your version is more romantic though.


Albert Einstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Roosevelt and the US government paid Einstein and a group of German physicists to come to the USA to live and develop the atomic bomb, after the fall of Hitler.
> That was the ONLY REASON they brought him and his family there.
> The Russians were also trying to get him, along with the best German physicists.
> At the end of Germany , the atomic race had officially begun.
> ...


He was not directly involved in the work on the atomic bomb. The US did not trust him to keep it a secret. 

His role was as theoretical during the making of the bomb. He originally wanted the US to build a bomb because he feared that Germany would build one first. However he has doubts as to wheather it could or should be built.

Edit: added that word.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Eienstien had a biographer who wrote what is considerd one of the best referenced biographies. He had direct access to E letters and historical documents. I don't remember his name but i will look for it.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> He was not directly involved in the work on the atomic bomb. The US did not trust him to keep it a secret.
> 
> His role was as theoretical during the making of the bomb. He originally wanted the US to build a bomb because he feared that Germany would build one first. However he has doubts as to wheather it could or should be built.
> 
> Edit: added that word.


"....*In August 1939, prominent physicists Leó Szilárd and Eugene Wigner drafted the Einstein–Szilárd letter, which warned of the potential development of "extremely powerful bombs of a new type". It urged the United States to take steps to acquire stockpiles of uranium ore and accelerate the research of Enrico Fermi and others into nuclear chain reactions.* They had it signed by *Albert Einstein *and delivered to President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Roosevelt called on Lyman Briggs of the National Bureau of Standards to head the Advisory Committee on Uranium to investigate the issues raised by the letter. Briggs held a meeting on 21 October 1939, which was attended by Szilárd, Wigner and Edward Teller.* The committee reported back to Roosevelt in November that uranium "would provide a possible source of bombs with a destructiveness vastly greater than anything now known."[2]*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Trenton said:


> CM I wrote about the letter he sent. He still was not allowed to work on the actual development and if you read my quotes you'll see his motives as well as his later regret.
> 
> But, yes, complexity. Men are not simple. No man that would keep my attention for more than a minute is simple.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Bravo dear lady. Very well put.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Trenton said:


> He then went on to say:
> *"I made one great mistake in my life...* *when I signed the letter to President Roosevelt recommending that atom bombs be made; but there was some justification - the danger that the Germans would make them."*


Why was his signature so important?
why did he regret putting his signature to it if he was against the bombs being made?

Again, the man was not a simpleton.

There was a reason he worked on the Manhattan project


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Trenton said:


> CM I wrote about the letter he sent. He still was not allowed to work on the actual development and if you read my quotes you'll see his motives as well as his later regret.
> 
> But, yes, complexity. Men are not simple. No man that would keep my attention for more than a minute is simple.


Einstein knew that if Russia developed the bomb first, the axis of power would shift to them.
His heart was buried in the USA.
He preferred the American way of life, and he knew that making the bomb would lead to tremendous loss of life , as a consequence of his work in physics.
It was a tremendous _personal _sacrifice he made.
Without Einstein , there could be no atomic bomb. He had the missing piece of the puzzle.

Men are not simple.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> "....*In August 1939, prominent physicists Leó Szilárd and Eugene Wigner drafted the Einstein–Szilárd letter, which warned of the potential development of "extremely powerful bombs of a new type". It urged the United States to take steps to acquire stockpiles of uranium ore and accelerate the research of Enrico Fermi and others into nuclear chain reactions.* They had it signed by *Albert Einstein *and delivered to President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Roosevelt called on Lyman Briggs of the National Bureau of Standards to head the Advisory Committee on Uranium to investigate the issues raised by the letter. Briggs held a meeting on 21 October 1939, which was attended by Szilárd, Wigner and Edward Teller.* The committee reported back to Roosevelt in November that uranium "would provide a possible source of bombs with a destructiveness vastly greater than anything now known."[2]*
> 
> Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


E wrote the letter yes. His only role was theoretical. He did not know that a bomb was being built. He was consulted during the bomb building. He was queried about fission, and wheather the reaction could be controlled. 

Although the above is true the interpretation that he built the bomb is inaccurate. 

The bomb would have been built even if E did not come to the US. The US had the science as uncovered by E, all they needed to do was to find a mechanism to use the science. 

It probably would have taken longer to build if the the scientist could not ask E specific questions during the process.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Einstein knew that if Russia developed the bomb first, the axis of power would shift to them.
> His heart was buried in the USA.
> He preferred the American way of life, and he knew that making the bomb would lead to tremendous loss of life , as a consequence of his work in physics.
> It was a tremendous _personal _sacrifice he made.
> ...


More accurately, without E work the bomb would not have been built. His uncovering of subatomic particles and energy and thier properties, made it possible. By extrapolation, he did make it possible. However, to be accurate, he did not build a bomb.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> More accurately, without E work the bomb would not have been built. His uncovering of subatomic particles and energy and thier properties, made it possible. By extrapolation, he did make it possible. However, to be accurate, he did not build a bomb.


I think we're splitting hairs........


----------



## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> If men were really that simple, women would rule the world.
> 
> Wait..........................


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I don't know if it my artistic temperament or what, but I don't have much in common with most men. I have had very few really close guy friends. Now, to be sure, I do enjoy some typically "guy" things: sports, cars, fixing things around the house, and of course sex with my wife, but I also enjoy many things that more women enjoy. I love shopping with my wife, classical concerts, ballet, opera, music theater, "chick flicks," cuddling after sex, etc. I am a hopeless romantic.

I don't know if I am more complex than other menu but I tend to think so.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Einstein was a theoretical physicist who understood the potential of fission. but so did Fermi, Bohr, Szilard, Lawrence, Oppenheimer, Rabi, Teller, von Neuman and of course Chadwick, and others. 

Einstein would have not been a good fit for the demands of nuclear engineering, nuclear chemistry, applied physics (he understood a great of electrodynamics though).

BTW Einstein struggled with some of the math. He didn't use or didn't understand the latest Ricci-Curbastro and Levi-Civita tensor calculus and used instead the other methods of Beltrami. Still it's clear now he was stumbling a bit with covariant equivalence and got a great deal of instruction in math from Marcel Grossman (Einstein-Grossman, 1917). Einstein continued to correspond with Levi-Civita until 1919 but really came to grips with the finer points of the math behind his own General Relativity. 

Math A.B.D here...


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Trenton said:


> I can't and won't argue it. He definitely played a HUGE role in the development of the bomb but he did not make it and he did regret it.
> 
> Although you may think his heart was buried in the American way of life, I think that's a bit simplistic. If you read his letter to Solovine, you'll see a very different perspective.


There's no way he could have " made " the bomb in that context because it cost billions of dollars to make.
But his role was crucial and pivotal in many, many ways. 

Lets assume for one moment that instead of a bomb, his theories were used to get a permanent cure for cancers , no doubt we would give him full credit for it.

So what defines him is not just his contribution to building the bomb , but his work in unlocking the atom, and harnessing the energy, which brought us to the nuclear age.
His legacy is much bigger than the bomb.

Likewise , we cannot collective generalize people, specifically men , and define them by what might appear to be a shortcoming , or things we can't easily understand. 
Many times , a man's legacy is greater than his shortcomings.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

CM disputing the accuracy of your facts is not a down grading men to a simple status. It is just the facts. 

Men are not complex because they are never wrong. E, one of the greatest scientist that ever lived (so far) made many glaring blunders. Nevertheless he was a great scientist and complex man. 

I have read subtle and not so subtle comments about the role of women being small in advancing humankind in contrast to men. This is sometimes connected to women's rights. 

But i dont think the accomplishments of men as a gender plays a role in personal relationships with women. On an individual level, we all deserve respect, appreciation and acknowledgement. 

I am certain that the millions of men who were instrumental in advancing civilization did not see their work as a confirmation of their complexity as men. 

None of the men i know expect acknowledgement and respect from their family when the lights are turned on and the indoor plumbing is used.

I have never felt that my importance to the men in my life was downgraded because of my gender as a whole is poorly represented in the long list of innovative people. We repect each other based on the people we are. 

I dont repect my husband because Edison invented the electric light. I respect him on a personal level. 

Men describe themselves as simple therefore they have control over their image. 

Men are complex


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> There's no way he could have " made " the bomb in that context because it cost billions of dollars to make.
> But his role was crucial and pivotal in many, many ways.
> 
> Lets assume for one moment that instead of a bomb, his theories were used to get a permanent cure for cancers , no doubt we would give him full credit for it.
> ...


But you are the one who brought a nuclear bomb into the middle of the discussion. Are you now saying that his work made the bomb possible? It seems we have come full circle and thereforE you are right.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Einstein was a theoretical physicist who understood the potential of fission. but so did Fermi, Bohr, Szilard, Lawrence, Oppenheimer, Rabi, Teller, von Neuman and of course Chadwick, and others.
> 
> Einstein would have not been a good fit for the demands of nuclear engineering, nuclear chemistry, applied physics (he understood a great of electrodynamics though).
> 
> ...


If I remember correctly, did he challenge a mathamatical solution advanced by Bohr(I think) I think he wrote a paper with his theory and Bohr? wrote a paper with his mathematical solution. E deemed it impossible. Bohr was proven to be right. 

I find E fascinating. 

His brain was dissected And the anatomy of the organ was described in a paper published in the journal Brain in 2012. . His brain had several anatomical anomalies. The areas for spatial-visual processing was very large as were other areas as well. The areas for music and math in particular. He learned to play the violin as a child.


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Blink blink

I came here for a discussion about if *MEN* were simple...but it seems to have degenerated into a flame war about if EINSTEIN was simple...

Which is the equivilent of asking 'are men strong' and then getting into a discussion 'is 70's Schwarzenagger strong?' The man was an outlier in many MANY ways which make him irrelevant to the discussion of MEN in general.

So continue the thread jack at your leisure.

**

I find the question a bit...simplistic. Not to go all Noam Chomsky on your ass, but what is 'simple'?

How do you get in shape? Diet and exercise. Simple, right? But why is it so hard?

Here are the dimensions of basketball:

•Ball: The ball must be leather, 30 inches (76 centimeters) around and* 9 inches (23 centimeters) in diameter. *Before play, you should inflate the ball to 7.5 to 8.5 pounds per square inch (0.51 - 0.57 atmospheres).

•Hoop: The hoop should be a metal rim,* 18 inches (46 centimeters) in diameter *with a dangling nylon net that is 15 or 18 inches (38 or 46 centimeters) long. The hoop must be 10 feet (3 meters) off the ground.

The ball is only half the size of the rim...and it's only ten feet above the ground. So putting a ball into the hoop should be very simple for a 6' tall person. But it isn't, is it?

Simplicity in outcome belies the complexity in execution. The Kimmel Organ has 48 combination pistons and 22 piston pedals. And yet is can make a very broad and incredible range of music from a reasonably simple array of valves and stops.

**

So to judge men, we need to judge them by their works...and what is that?

It is this civilization. Except for the last 200 years or so, this entire civilization was created by men. They set the stones on one another. They thought the thoughts and created the values that women later used to teach their children. They made the laws, created the art and made the philosophies. They wrote the books and plays. They built the machines which allowed man to Touch the Face of God and visit the Goddess Moon.

So...are men simple? No.

Men are single minded and when what they consider basic needs (domestic tranquility, sex, food, respect) is not forthcoming, they are INCREDIBLY clear about the lack...which some women interpret as 'simple' because if/when the woman FINALLY rights the imbalance in the man's life, he drops it. It's gone as an issue. He isn't going to hold it as ammo for the next 15 years of fights (unless it is particularly egregious...)

So...a man who is designing the Saturn rocket, while learning how to play a bassoon is 'simple' because a little sex makes him happy?

I think it says more about women making these remarks than about the men themselves.


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Trenton said:


> It's not women interpreting men as simple, it's men declaring themselves as simple throughout TAM lately that prompted CM's thread. I could be wrong though as I was busy masturbating to Einstein quotes.


It's the hair, isn't it?

I think when basic needs aren't met, men ARE simple.

While I have great respect for the TAM ladies, who step up to the plate and actually listen, I HAVE heard this level of condescension from other women re their husbands and SOs.

A bit distressing that women and men are buying into this stuff.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Trenton said:


> It's not women interpreting men as simple, it's men declaring themselves as simple throughout TAM lately that prompted CM's thread. I could be wrong though as I was busy masturbating to Einstein quotes.


Now I'm not going to start pointing fingers. This was probably done as a playful ribbing(at least I hope it was)



Enchanted said:


> You might not get too many questions for this post. Men are pretty simple to figure out.


If you don't think like this, kudos to you. But there are looaads of women and men(yeah I know wtf, right?) who believe the societal brainwashing of men being simpletons.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

JCD said:


> It's the hair, isn't it?
> 
> I think when basic needs aren't met, men ARE simple.
> 
> ...


I agree with your post, especially with the last sentence.
Truth be told , it is distressing that men should say that about men in general.
If its just women saying it, then we may just take it at face value , but when it's men then it gets troubling.

Its like a dad " boasting " to his friends about his teenage son and saying that he's a " simple " boy, 
".._all he needs are his meals , a little weed to smoke and a good high speed internet connection for his porn_..." 
He's a great kid, doesn't give any trouble ...

Then there is this issue that some women have about male sexuality, that it needs to be redefined in some way to make it 
" _morally acceptable_ ." That a " real man" only thinks 
* pure and clean * thoughts about every woman he sees....


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Trenton said:


> Right & Right. No argument here.
> 
> Funny but I have Einstein quotes framed and hung in my house and I placed them on fractal imagery. Talk about complex simplicity.
> 
> ...


Here's my all time favourite Einstein quote;

"..._*No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.*_.." 
Albert Einstein


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I haven't read all of the replies, but every man and every woman is unique in their own way. To generally say that all men are simple to figure out is false. The same goes for women. It takes time to truly know someone. It takes time to build that trust with your spouse(especially if you've been burned in the past) and not every man nor woman is trustworthy. When you have a trustworthy spouse, then it is easier to figure each other out.

I personally have a very easy marriage. It was this way from the start. My husband and I are extremely compatible and we are very similar in personality and can very easily compromise. We are truly each other's best friend. In the last 14 years we have really grown together and we know each other extremely well. We both support each other and we both always treat each other with respect. We know what our needs are and we do our best to meet each others needs, we both equally put a lot of effort into our needs that need to be met. Our marriage has always been our number one priority. If there is an issue that needs to be worked out, we work it out right away no matter what time of day or night it is. I have an amazing husband that I absolutely adore. His support for me is phenomenal. I often thank him for the dedication and hard work he does for his family. 

We do our best to stay positive no matter what life throws at us. We both need each other. Of course we all have our off and bad days, everyone does. One thing I've learned in life is never to take anything for granted. All in all we both have figured each other out. This didn't happen over night, it took a few years. I'm one very lucky wife.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> * One thing I've learned in life is never to take anything for granted.*
> :iagree:


^^^^^
THIS right here is exactly what iv'e been trying to get at. The concept of a person describing their spouse as " simple " means that they have been taking them and the marriage itself,
Completely for granted.
And that's why the term is so annoying to me.
Especially when men agree with it.


----------

