# LD Couple - Reviving Sex After Depression



## owl6118 (Jan 30, 2014)

I posted the following in another forum:



owl6118 said:


> I'm new here. I am very blessed, our marriage is true and solid at its foundation. That said, it isn't perfect.
> 
> Presently, my issue is sex. We are both LD. After our son was born our marriage became clinically sexless. For years this did not really bother me, perhaps because I was already on the downward glide path to major depression and had little interest in sex myself. There was a long downward slope, followed by three years of personal hell as I lived through that. My loving wife had to watch, knowing and understanding that there was only so much she could do to help.
> 
> ...


To which Anon Pink sensibly replied:



Anon Pink said:


> Since I was the member who posed the question you quoted, and since I spend the bulk of my time here in SIM, I'd strongly encourage you simply cut and paste what you've written here into a new thread in SIM. (Sex In Marriage section)
> 
> But just to get you started... Being anxious about talking about sex due to a long history of NOT talking about sex is very common for a lot of people, not just women and not just people raised within a repressive type religion.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. So here it is!

Through determination, IC and learning by lurking I have already done a few things right. Reading some of the stories here on TAM has put the fear of God into me, and made me truly want to fix this no matter how hard it is for me to come to terms with. 

So I've been working on it for over a month now already. "Do before talk" has been my principle, along with "Romance before sex." 

Do before talk meant, I've tried to jump-start our sex life a bit before trying to talk about it. 

I did talk once first, just a little: I said to my wife, one time, in a very calm and non-judging tone, that I was feeling so much better, and as I felt better my libido has been returning, and that I was concerned about our sex life. I used the phrase sexless marriage for the first time, and expressed my hope and willingness to change. She said two things in reply: 1. she has been suffering from dryness and intercourse has been a little painful (GOOD! I CAN FIX THAT!) and that she also has just not been feeling that sexual (OH. OH MY. OK, THAT'S HARDER TO HEAR...).

I let the talking rest at that, and switched to actions.

Action one: lube. Really, its that simple, but I didn't KNOW until we talked that first little bit. Other actions followed. 

We had a number of 'anniversaries' this month that were special to us: our engagement, and really more important, the 15th anniversary of our 'first kiss.' You see, we were very close platonic friends for 12 years before we got together as a couple. I eventually figured out that she was the one I really wanted, but it took an 18 month campaign to break out of her friend zone. I had just about given up, when I finally made an all-out, last ditch effort, and to my eternal gratitude, she became open to my love. We have been together since. So, that anniversary was really big to me. And I made it a real celebration this year. Dinner out, and a surprise gift of estate earrings (not a common gesture for me). 

Lots of smaller things too, week in and week out. Footrubs. Learning to cook again, and once a week, making something new and plating it properly as a real meal together.

The great thing is, all this is its own reward. It's fun, I enjoy it, I'd forgotten what it was like to give my wife there kinds of gifts. But it has also been working on the other front too. We have had more (1/week), and better, sex for the past five weeks than in ten months prior. That number may seem low to many of you. For us, it's a huge recovery.

Now comes the scary part. I don't want to rest where we are. I want us to get even better. Our marriage had been sexless for years before my deep depression--the depression prolonged it, but it was NOT the cause. I want to root out the cause. I want to take a good marriage to the woman I love, and make it sexual again, moreso than ever it was.

And that means talking. And talking is hard. I have simply never done it--not with my own intimate partner. About other people, sure, we're not prudes, we don't live under a rock. But in my personal life I am painfully shy and reserved.

It's the right time. I've worked on my bona fides. Romance is back, sex is returning. But what comes next? And what I am really hoping for as an outcome? And what things might I learn that I am afraid to hear, or won't know how to address?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Bravo on such honesty about what it is that is holding you back. Speaking of your fears gives them less of a hold on you. Huge step there!

Okay so sex has increased to once a week. You want it more often, you want it more open and explorative and you want to tap into both of your potentials... Right?

Who usually initiates sex and how is this done? (Once in bed you begin to touch her is a sexual way...?) What happens if you initiate sex more often than once a week? What are your or her reactions is sex is suggested and turned down?

Do you know if your wife masturbates and if so how often? I ask this because a woman who masturbates is a woman who does absolutely know how to orgasm. A woman who doesn't masturbate can only self report if she is orgasmic or not. Lots of men think they know...but any woman on this forum will tell you, we have all faked it countless times and rarely ever can a man tell.

Hopefully the men will be along shortly and they will also chime in on taking about sex.


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## owl6118 (Jan 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Okay so sex has increased to once a week. You want it more often, you want it more open and explorative and you want to tap into both of your potentials... Right?


Actaully I am not hung up on greater frequency--sure, it would be nice, but its all the other things you mention that matter. Open, explorative, less inhibited, full potential... YES.




Anon Pink said:


> Who usually initiates sex and how is this done? (Once in bed you begin to touch her is a sexual way...?) What happens if you initiate sex more often than once a week? What are your or her reactions is sex is suggested and turned down?


Currently I do invariably. In other times, she has. 

When she does, she simply hops into bed w/o a T-shirt on-clear signal. 

When I do, we pillow talk. If she seems receptive, kissing. But receptivity at that moment can be hard to gauge.

Right now, we do not have any habit of flirting earlier in the evening that sets the mood. Parenthood, work, chores, appointments, getbin the way. But we are also too reserved.

In the past, we have eached turned one another down. She had no interest for a long time during pregnancy and adter delivery. I suspect I then shut down in self protection from the hurt of rejection--to the point that I later would reject an advance (something I bitterly regret right now).

More than once a week? Lord, its a miracle to be back to this! I haven't pressed it.

How do I react to rejection? Well, I haven't been in this new cycle. A few days ago, she gave every sign of having no interest on our usual best night. Rather than just not initiate and swallowing any bitterness, I offered a no strings attached backrub. By the time it was done her motor was revving. That is the first time in years that I persisted in the face of certain initial strong negative vibes. I was damned pleased about the result.




Anon Pink said:


> Do you know if your wife masturbates and if so how often? I ask this because a woman who masturbates is a woman who does absolutely know how to orgasm. A woman who doesn't masturbate can only self report if she is orgasmic or not. Lots of men think they know...but any woman on this forum will tell you, we have all faked it countless times and rarely ever can tell.


I don't know for sure if she masturbates, but I don't think so. Which has always amazed me if true, for I could never have endured these droughts without it. She is really just pretty LD.

However, once she bets in the mood and we get going, she definitely does orgasm during sex, faster and more easily than any other women I have ever been with by far, but also in a much lower-key way. Almost male, actually. OK, I hear you twitter, how can I really know? You'll have to take my word for it. The simple truth is, she does not care about appearances when it comes to this. She would not bother faking it--its a deep-set aspect of her character. It's not virtue so much as a kind of almost lazy indifference to dissembling--basically, the acting would be too much work for too little gain for her. Also there are all the physical differences. Her orgasms come easily, but are low key and subtle--notably different from other women I've been with or from When Harry Met Sally for that matter. Any actress would phone in a better performance. More noise, more drama, more buildup. Can we take my word for it, if only for the sake of argument?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

owl6118 said:


> Actaully I am not hung up on greater frequency--sure, it would be nice, but its all the other things you mention that matter. Open, explorative, less inhibited, full potential... YES.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay good, so she's not too shy to unapologetically let you know what she wants. Excellent!

Read up on women's responsive desire... 

Do You Understand Female Sexual Desire? | Psychology Today

While many men really want their wives to initiate what they need to understand is that a lot of women labeled at low desire actually are just responsive desire almost exclusively. This means, she doesn't think about sex unless you remind her to think about sex. 



> Right now, we do not have any habit of flirting earlier in the evening that sets the mood. Parenthood, work, chores, appointments, getbin the way. But we are also too reserved.
> 
> In the past, we have eached turned one another down. She had no interest for a long time during pregnancy and adter delivery. I suspect I then shut down in self protection from the hurt of rejection--to the point that I later would reject an advance (something I bitterly regret right now).
> 
> More than once a week? Lord, its a miracle to be back to this! I haven't pressed it.


So, basing your actions on you wife having responsive desire, it follows that you are going to have to initiate sex and flirting and you're also going to have to break the ice on the sexy texts. 



> How do I react to rejection? Well, I haven't been in this new cycle. Most recently, she gave every sign of having interest on our usual best night. Rather than just not initiate and awallowing any bitterness, I offered a no strings attached backrub. By the time it was done her motor was revving. That is the first time in years that I persisted in the face of certain initial strong negative vibes. I was damned pleased about the result.


See, responsive desire at work. To work on getting her to respond, you simply tell yourself that you are going to make 2-3 slight sexual "touches" per day. Whether that's giving her a dirty leer and telling her she looks edible, or sending her a flirty message about looking forward to kissing your way down her neck ( or whatever pushes her buttons.)

Then you can move into more overt sexual moves. Blocking her between you and the kitchen cabinets, the. Giving her a gentle kiss that slowly progresses to a heavy kiss. Then you walk away as you blow a kiss to her. These kind of things get her thinking sex, thinking sex with you, thinking how sexy this new healthy guy is loving his confidence!

Sex should be fun, so getting it started should be fun too.




> I don't know for sure if she masterbates, but I don't think so. Which has always amazed me if true, for I could never have endured these droughts without it. She is really just pretty LD.
> 
> However, once she bets in the mood and we get going, she definately does orgasm during sex, faster and more easily than any other women I have ever been with by far, but also in a much lower-key way. Almost male, actually. Ok, I hear you twitter, how can I really know? You'll have to take my word for it. The simple truth is, she does not care about appearances when it comes to this. She would not bother faking it--its a deep-set aspect of her character. It's not virtue so much as a kind of almost lazy indifference to dissembling--basically, the acting would be too much work for too little gain for her. Also there are all the physical differences. Her orgams come easily, but are low key and subtle--notably different from other women I've been with or from When Harry Met Sally for that matter. Any actress would phone in a better performance. More noise, more drama, more buildup. Can we take my word for it, if only for the sake of argument?



 yes, we can! She probably does masturbate, she just doesn't let you know.


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## owl6118 (Jan 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> While many men really want their wives to initiate what they need to understand is that a lot of women labeled at low desire actually are just responsive desire almost exclusively. This means, she doesn't think about sex unless you remind her to think about sex.


Yes, I've encountered the idea and I think it fits. My relationship homework (if you can call something so fun work) for myself this past month was based on this premise. My anecdote from a few days ago was my most deliberate attempt to work on these terms. Good results.




Anon Pink said:


> So, basing your actions on you wife having responsive desire, it follows that you are going to have to initiate sex and flirting ... Whether that's giving her a dirty leer and telling her she looks edible, or sending her a flirty message about looking forward to kissing your way down her neck ( or whatever pushes her buttons.)


And now we get to wanting to be able to talk. Trial and error is hard. It requires a lot of risk. There will be false starts. I think we could avoid a lot of blundering and hurt with open communication. But I don't know how to start.



Anon Pink said:


> Then you can move into more overt sexual moves. Blocking her between you and the kitchen cabinets, the. Giving her a gentle kiss that slowly progresses to a heavy kiss. Then you walk away as you blow a kiss to her. These kind of things get her thinking sex, thinking sex with you, thinking how sexy this new healthy guy is loving his confidence!


I have finally gotten the real importance of the confidence thing. I am working consciously on projecting it, in and out of the bedroom. I don't lack it, but its interior. I am making it exterior.



Anon Pink said:


> Sex should be fun, so getting it started should be fun too.


And here again, we get to the point where I want to break through the next wall. A lot of what we've talked about above is getting to sex. And I'm getting the hang of that again. 

Opening up about the sex itself, about desires and buttons, about fun, is the second part... that I don't have quite so figured out at all.



Anon Pink said:


> She probably does masturbate, she just doesn't let you know.


Wouldn't it be great if we could talk about that?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think you will get there, naturally on your own. Yes it feels awkward at first but slowly bit by bit you grown more comfortable.

The more sex you have, the easier it is to leverage that into emotional intimacy as well, and it sound like this is the last frontier of emotional intimacy.

Do you ever say sweet things to each other after sex? That's a great place to get used to the positives of talking about sex. Basking in the after glow, laying naked together, "gosh sweetie that was so great! I can't believe we spent all those years not having sex. I'm so happy were back on track with each other..."

Yes that opens the door to letting out some hurt on both your sides. But it needs to come out, be heard and put to bed.

My husband was completely shut down....by me! Early in our marriage I shut it all down and that's where it stayed until I brought it back out again. I wish he hadn't spent all those years being silently angry and had brought it up more...but...water under the bridge.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Owl,
From one long time married man to another - take a deep bow. This is an absolutely beautiful story of both redemption and love. 

I'm going to make a suggestion, one that is based in a series of truly delightful personal experiences. 

My W is a nurse for ophthalmologists and optometrists. This is her game, and she brought it straight from work to our bed. 

If you've been to an optometrist, you know that the way they determine your prescription is by giving you two optical choices (while you look at an eye chart) and asking:
Better 1 (with one setting) or
Better 2 (with a different setting)

Amazing how well that works for:
- Massages and
- Foreplay

I recall how astonished I was the first time she did this to me while giving me a full body massage. She would vary pressure, direction (vertical, horizontal, diagonal or circular), body part (finger tip, palm, finger nails, elbow, etc.).

Ah - Protestants - my father was a Lutheran so I fully grasp the shyness factor. 

This ummm game - minimizes the need for talking. One person asks better 1, better 2 and the other replies with either one, or two. 

Start with a massage. Get it good - then great - then OMG.

After the method is proven, start using it with foreplay. 




QUOTE=owl6118;7555305]I posted the following in another forum:



To which Anon Pink sensibly replied:



Fair enough. So here it is!

Through determination, IC and learning by lurking I have already done a few things right. Reading some of the stories here on TAM has put the fear of God into me, and made me truly want to fix this no matter how hard it is for me to come to terms with. 

So I've been working on it for over a month now already. "Do before talk" has been my principle, along with "Romance before sex." 

Do before talk meant, I've tried to jump-start our sex life a bit before trying to talk about it. 

I did talk once first, just a little: I said to my wife, one time, in a very calm and non-judging tone, that I was feeling so much better, and as I felt better my libido has been returning, and that I was concerned about our sex life. I used the phrase sexless marriage for the first time, and expressed my hope and willingness to change. She said two things in reply: 1. she has been suffering from dryness and intercourse has been a little painful (GOOD! I CAN FIX THAT!) and that she also has just not been feeling that sexual (OH. OH MY. OK, THAT'S HARDER TO HEAR...).

I let the talking rest at that, and switched to actions.

Action one: lube. Really, its that simple, but I didn't KNOW until we talked that first little bit. Other actions followed. 

We had a number of 'anniversaries' this month that were special to us: our engagement, and really more important, the 15th anniversary of our 'first kiss.' You see, we were very close platonic friends for 12 years before we got together as a couple. I eventually figured out that she was the one I really wanted, but it took an 18 month campaign to break out of her friend zone. I had just about given up, when I finally made an all-out, last ditch effort, and to my eternal gratitude, she became open to my love. We have been together since. So, that anniversary was really big to me. And I made it a real celebration this year. Dinner out, and a surprise gift of estate earrings (not a common gesture for me). 

Lots of smaller things too, week in and week out. Footrubs. Learning to cook again, and once a week, making something new and plating it properly as a real meal together.

The great thing is, all this is its own reward. It's fun, I enjoy it, I'd forgotten what it was like to give my wife there kinds of gifts. But it has also been working on the other front too. We have had more (1/week), and better, sex for the past five weeks than in ten months prior. That number may seem low to many of you. For us, it's a huge recovery.

Now comes the scary part. I don't want to rest where we are. I want us to get even better. Our marriage had been sexless for years before my deep depression--the depression prolonged it, but it was NOT the cause. I want to root out the cause. I want to take a good marriage to the woman I love, and make it sexual again, moreso than ever it was.

And that means talking. And talking is hard. I have simply never done it--not with my own intimate partner. About other people, sure, we're not prudes, we don't live under a rock. But in my personal life I am painfully shy and reserved.

It's the right time. I've worked on my bona fides. Romance is back, sex is returning. But what comes next? And what I am really hoping for as an outcome? And what things might I learn that I am afraid to hear, or won't know how to address?[/QUOTE]


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Great post MEM!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If OWL likes this type approach there is another I can recommend which requires even less talking. 



Anon Pink said:


> Great post MEM!


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Sounds like you got a great start. My wife also had dryness issues as we started to pull our sex life out of the death spiral it was in. Trust me, as you relearn how to turn her on that will most lemy go away and she will become aroused and wet much easier. Don't worry about the frequency now. Concentrate on making sex better for her. 

You also seemed to have discovered the magic of giving a woman a massage. For my wife, it works faster than Foreplay many times. Check out YouTube for some good videos on giving massages, as you can hurt her if you don't know what you are doing. 

If you don't already know. You need to find out both your love languages and learn to speak them. That alone can make a huge difference in many couples. 

Lastly. Pursue and flirt with that woman non stop. She needs to feel loved and desired all the time, not just when you want sex that night. Flirting with her when there is no chance of sex happening will go a long way. 

Good luck and don't push it too fast. It took years to get where you you were. And you can't fix it quickly. I'm six months into our sexless recovery journey with quite a ways to go. You never know what you will find when you try to fix these things. In my case it was discovered that my wife was sexually abused as a child which contributed to our problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## owl6118 (Jan 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I think you will get there, naturally on your own. Yes it feels awkward at first but slowly bit by bit you grown more comfortable....
> 
> My husband was completely shut down....by me! Early in our marriage I shut it all down and that's where it stayed until I brought it back out again. I wish he hadn't spent all those years being silently angry and had brought it up more...but...water under the bridge.


I greatly appreciate all your advice and encouragement.

If you have memories of specific words, gestures that helped you and your husband navigate this, that you are comfortable sharing, I would be grateful to hear them. Yes, I am committed to this all in and will keep working at it on my own. But that said, anything very concrete and actionable that you recall helping would help me demystify it all and make it less intimidating.


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## owl6118 (Jan 30, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Owl,
> From one long time married man to another - take a deep bow. This is an absolutely beautiful story of both redemption and love.


No pressure! 



MEM11363 said:


> This is her game, and she brought it straight from work to our bed.
> 
> If you've been to an optometrist, you know that the way they determine your prescription is by giving you two optical choices (while you look at an eye chart) and asking:
> Better 1 (with one setting) or
> Better 2 (with a different setting)


This is outstanding! Thank you for this idea! Please, thank you wife for me.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Overcoming a long history of sexual disconnect and poor communication, you just have to bite the bullet and start.

We started to have better sex and for years is remained, just better sex. My story is very different from yours and it's not relevant here. It was weighing on me heavily. I just got up the nerve to speak up and told him I wanted a better sex life. After we got the better sex life there was still no communication about it. Coming here and posting the deeply intimate things on my mind, my worries and fears and having other member tell me to talk to my husband...worked.


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## owl6118 (Jan 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Overcoming a long history of sexual disconnect and poor communication, you just have to bite the bullet and start.
> ...
> 
> After we got the better sex life there was still no communication about it. Coming here and posting the deeply intimate things on my mind, my worries and fears and having other member tell me to talk to my husband...worked.


You have the gentlest way of saying man up and start talking. Gotchya.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

owl6118 said:


> You have the gentlest way of saying man up and start talking. Gotchya.


:rofl:

That's the first time anyone called me gentle. I'll take it! Thanks!


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