# Husband's Temper



## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

EDIT: This initial post has already received plenty of responses. Thanks for the advice.

====================-


Hello. I'd really appreciate some advice. I'm in my 20s, and recently married.

My husband is kind and calm most of the time. However, other times, he will completely overreact and EXPLODE. His anger is completely disproportionate to the situation. At times, I see it coming. But, at times I see no reason. Often, it's while he is playing video games. He's like jekyll and hyde!

I'm a very, perhaps overly, sensitive person. I never saw my divorced parents fight. My step dad had a minor temper, but was able to work on it. 

Some articles I've read, and my own husband agrees, advise that I should just get away from him when he is in that state. But, I have a hard time doing this. I just want everything resolved, because it physically hurts my heart when he is like that. I can't sleep, or eat. I don't want to do anything. 

If I do talk to him while he is in that state, he will often say nasty things to me, and blame me for it because I talked to him. 

One the one hand, I think, it's only the Anger talking. Maybe it's like depression where you can't shut off that voice in your head. It's hard to control. 

On the other hand, I feel like, why can't he just control himself? I get really angry, too, but never talk to him the way he talks to me! 

To sum it up: What should I do?

(a) Walk away from him & don't talk to him until he is calm.
***IF I do this, how do I handle my own hurt feelings?

(b) Force him to talk it through with me.

(c) Ask him to get some anger management

(d) other

Thank you.


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

He sounds abusive. It isn't just that he gets angry, it is that he blames you for trying to resolve the situation. That isn't ok. It sounds like he overreacts to things and tries to get you to take full responsibility. It is your responsibility to leave if he is angry, it is your responsibility to not talk to him if he is angry, it is your responsibility if you DO talk to him and he is nasty. 

No, his anger is HIS responsibility. He needs help. Angry men are scary, and angry men who don't take care of their anger turn into physically abusive monsters. 

If you think anger management will actually fix it, get him to do it. Otherwise you might need to permanently get out of that situation. It is NOT your fault that he handles his anger the way he does, do NOT let him try to convince you it is.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What should you do?

-->> Walk away from him & don't talk to him until he is calm.
As KittyKat said, it's his own responsibility to calm himself down. Do not talk to him when he's having an outburst. Ignore him, walk away from him.

How do you handle your own feelings? Plan for a quite place in the house to go to. Have things to do like music to listen to, a good book to read, call a family member or friend. Do anything you can to calm yourself down. Or leave the house.. go for a walk, go to a freinds house, just get out for an hour or so.

A good book on this topic is "The Dance of Anger".

You would probably also benefit from going to an individual counselor to learn to handle this type of situation.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

Thank you for your reply.

That is my fear. I found out his dad was abusive. I always thought his dad was the nicest, most laid back person you could ever meet. Apparently, he has a very short fuse, too. He's been verbally and physically abusive to his wife and kids. He clearly inherited/ learned it from him.

My husband has not been physically abusive, and says he would never hit me. But, sometimes he gets so angry, I fear he might do it. I will say that he only blames me when he is in that state of mind. After he has calmed down, he apologizes, and accepts full responsibility. But, maybe I am naiive, and this is just guilt... just an act..? 



kittykat09 said:


> He sounds abusive. It isn't just that he gets angry, it is that he blames you for trying to resolve the situation. That isn't ok. It sounds like he overreacts to things and tries to get you to take full responsibility. It is your responsibility to leave if he is angry, it is your responsibility to not talk to him if he is angry, it is your responsibility if you DO talk to him and he is nasty.
> 
> No, his anger is HIS responsibility. He needs help. Angry men are scary, and angry men who don't take care of their anger turn into physically abusive monsters.
> 
> If you think anger management will actually fix it, get him to do it. Otherwise you might need to permanently get out of that situation. It is NOT your fault that he handles his anger the way he does, do NOT let him try to convince you it is.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> What should you do?
> 
> -->> Walk away from him & don't talk to him until he is calm.
> As KittyKat said, it's his own responsibility to calm himself down. Do not talk to him when he's having an outburst. Ignore him, walk away from him.
> ...


Thank you for your advice, and for the book recommendation. I will check it out. I should really look into finding a counselor for myself. 

It's at these moments when I question myself, and wonder if I made a mistake in marrying him. I feel so weak and foolish.


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

sweetpotato said:


> Thank you for your advice, and for the book recommendation. I will check it out. I should really look into finding a counselor for myself.
> 
> It's at these moments when I question myself, and wonder if I made a mistake in marrying him. I feel so weak and foolish.


Don't feel weak and foolish. Life is one big lesson, and we'd never learn anything if we first didn't go through them.

Just a little background info - do you have kids? Is he on any prescription drugs, or does he do anything recreational alot ie drinking, marijuana?

Being raised with an abusive father can have it's effects on men. My husband was in that circumstance, probably more on the extreme end. He learnt to control himself from a young age. If there are no other outside factors, anger management counselling is a great idea just so he can understand why he blows up and ways to calm down. Some people do have a short fuse for many reasons. 

Does your husband think he has a problem?


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

Gratitude said:


> Don't feel weak and foolish. Life is one big lesson, and we'd never learn anything if we first didn't go through them.
> 
> Just a little background info - do you have kids? Is he on any prescription drugs, or does he do anything recreational alot ie drinking, marijuana?
> 
> ...


No kids. Probably not for awhile, if ever.
No drugs/ alcohol. He recently went on Lovastatin? for his high cholesterol. All he does is play video games during his free time.

He knows he has a problem. He did kind of went a little psycho on an acquaintance who did something to upset me. He felt terrible afterwards. He admits that he can't control his anger sometimes.

And yet, he's not open to counseling or anger management or even self-help. At least, he never has been. I mentioned it just now, and he said no...

He says he's tired of always being the one apologizing, like everything is always his fault. He said I should've learned by now not to approach him when he is upset. He said it's like trying to pet an attack dog. I do try not to, but I didn't know he was angry. I thought just a little annoyed.


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

He might get counselling if you tell him you can't live with it anymore. It depends on how you feel. Do you feel you're living on eggshells? Does he blow up over nothing? Was he particulary spoilt as a child?

Some people do have anger control issues. It's not just for you to "deal" with though. You don't need to wait around for his blow outs, he is the one who needs to get a handle on it. 

If all he does is play video games in his free time, do you two ever get any time together? Is that when he usually blows up? Why, because you interrupted his game? Are these games an issue for you?


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## alone_not_lonely (Mar 22, 2012)

sweetpotato said:


> No kids. Probably not for awhile, if ever.
> No drugs/ alcohol. He recently went on Lovastatin? for his high cholesterol. All he does is play video games during his free time.
> 
> He knows he has a problem. He did kind of went a little psycho on an acquaintance who did something to upset me. He felt terrible afterwards. He admits that he can't control his anger sometimes.
> ...


Wow. My stbx to a tee, (a similar version of the dog comment was used) he didn't think he had a problem with anger and didn't like the idea of getting help. I can only ASSUME it was because if someone told him he was in the wrong he wouldn't like it very much 

I walked away from arguments, he followed. Sometimes it doesn't always work. Try to see how it goes though. As suggested above, have an area you can go to to calm down, and wait until he is calm as well.

If the anger scares or intimidates you it is a problem. Have you told him how scary it is to you? Are you able to talk to him about your concern in a calm time and suggest that is the reason you would like him to attend counselling? Mine used to rage something awful but said he would never hit me. A couple of years down the track it was all too easy for him to do so, and in front of our child. Last straw. He didn't see it as a problem so never sought help. I didn't push the issue. It took me walking out 5 months ago for him to tell me he recognised he had a problem... never did anything to fix it though. But that's lip service for ya.

Things do often escalate, and if you are afraid of him now and can't tell him so, it is a huge red flag. An even bigger one if he doesn't want to do anything about it. If it does go any further into physical violence... Get out. Run for the hills. Click your heels as you go because you will just keep giving him chances otherwise, and it will just get worse. If they don't think it's broke, they don't fix it.

I do sincerely hope your husband chooses to be a better man than mine.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

My H was exactly the same - not a sulker but really volatile, the whole house had to walk on eggshells when he had the hump (which was most of the time)

he used to shout and swear at the TV, the computer, everything

he did go to anger management at one point but never sustained it, he's one of those people that talks about his temper like he's proud of it

I just used to walk away - I'm quite non confrontational anyway but if we were to get into an argument he would always have won because he was much nastier than me and able to say things that I wouldn't dream of saying...then act like nothing had happened

now we're split it's like a massive weight off my shoulders


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

My best friends ex was the same. He went off his trolley all the time. Physical, verbal, anything. Out of nowhere. He has a history of drugs though, and was doted on and enabled by his mother.

To the OP, trying to decipher between if he is abusive or if he just loses his cool sometimes and calms down pretty quick. Are you afraid of him?


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## alone_not_lonely (Mar 22, 2012)

sweetpotato said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> That is my fear. I found out his dad was abusive. I always thought his dad was the nicest, most laid back person you could ever meet. Apparently, he has a very short fuse, too. He's been verbally and physically abusive to his wife and kids. He clearly inherited/ learned it from him.
> 
> My husband has not been physically abusive, and says he would never hit me. But, sometimes he gets so angry, I fear he might do it. I will say that he only blames me when he is in that state of mind. After he has calmed down, he apologizes, and accepts full responsibility. But, maybe I am naiive, and this is just guilt... just an act..?


This is the biggest thing about abusers. No one on the outside really suspects a thing. They are SO good at hiding it.

It is not your fault. You may make each other angry, but he should be able to control the level of anger he displays, as should you.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

The reason most abusive people get away with behavior is due to being allow to do so. 

OP,

You need to sit him down and explain that you will not live your life like this. He either makes an effort at anger manager AND reforms his attitude long/short term or he will face divorce. 

Life is too short to live with a raging nutball. Is your health worth losing over this? 

PS: Do not have kids with him. It will only make it worse.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

"After he has calmed down, he apologizes, and accepts full responsibility."

Um, respectfully, NO HE DOESN'T. What he DOES is apologize. 'I'm sorry' fixes NOTHING. If he was REALLY sorry and accepting full responsibility (as you say), he would CHANGE his BEHAVIOR. But he doesn't. And "he's not open to counseling or anger management" (your statement.)

Sanity is 100% on the mark! Take it from me, a STBXW from a 19yr marriage (22yrs together) with a man who rages. The rages will not stop. Though he may never become physically abusive, he WILL become more and more VERBALLY abusive. Insulting, denigrating, belittling, demeaning. You will be walking around on eggshells your whole marriage. Heaven forbid you should bring kids into this situation.

I would respectfully disagree with the idea that YOU should find a quiet haven to ride out the storm. I disagree YOU should read books on dealing with an angry spouse. That would be making it YOUR responsibility to deal with/fix/accept this problem, not your husband's.

By going to your quiet haven, you are ENABLING your husband to indulge in his rages....guilt-free! By reading about living with a raging spouse, you are encouraging your husband to believe that he is a victim of his rages (like a seizure patient) and YOU are supposed to support him in his affliction (like a nurse/doctor). Nope!

"He admits that he can't control his anger sometimes....And yet, he's not open to counseling or anger management"

Since I'm old enough to me your mother (and have suffered through a couple of DECADES of this behavior, yeah, my bad) I will say:

1. When he is calm, tell him you are done accepting his rages.
2. Do not "ask"...*TELL* him that he WILL seek Anger Management or IC counseling to address HIS problem.
3. If he is unwilling to address his problem immediately and work on it sincerely, tell him you are DONE. And MEAN IT.

You are both young and in a new marriage. The way you and he handle this problem is indicative of how you will both handle problems in the future. Either as equal ADULTS who accept realities, deal with them and move forward, OR as an unequal 'partnership' where one person's needs are too often (or always) put before the other's.

Your husband's thinking and behavior is immature. It is understandable to a degree, he is young. But, it is NOT acceptable.
He acknowledges he has a problem, but does not want to discomfit himself by addressing it. He indulges a lot of time in video games that he KNOWS will trigger his rages. If he was "taking responsibility" for his actions, he would be ameliorating those conditions that bring on his rages.

He also has the additional baggage of a childhood raised in abuse. Kind of like the children of alcoholics should ALWAYS monitor their response to alcohol lest they fall into the same patterns. Your husband should be monitoring his responses to situations that anger him so he doesn't become abusive (physically, verbally, emotionally.) But he doesn't. He doesn't want to.

YOU have nothing to lose by voicing your demands. Things will either improve at HIS direction (by taking REAL responsibility for his actions and seeking help) or he will be content to play the 'victim' to his rages. At that point, you can decide whether you want to accept a lifetime of this (and possible escalation) or not.

Good luck, SweetPotato! Let us know what you decide to do!


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

My husband has an explosive temper too, but he is not abusive to me or our kids. He gets angry at computer glitches, bad drivers, household repair problems, and the minor irritations of life. Once the anger is released, he is fine. I on the other hand, am slow to anger but when I do get mad it takes me a long time to get over it. I also have to work on not holding grudges, which he never does.

I think that the key issue is how he treats you. Does he call you names in an argument? My husband has never done this. Of course he should never be physically abusive to you either.

I just leave him alone when he is like this. He calms down quickly. If I try to say something, it just makes the situation worse. It is genetic--his mother and grandmother also had explosive tempers.

It would be nice if he would go to an anger management class, but he will not do this. I just see it as one of his faults, and since the anger has never been directed at me in 34 years, I can tolerate it.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

sweetpotato said:


> Some articles I've read, and my own husband agrees, advise that I should just get away from him when he is in that state. But, I have a hard time doing this. I just want everything resolved, because it physically hurts my heart when he is like that. I can't sleep, or eat. I don't want to do anything.


This is correct. You should get away from him until he calms down. You may want quick and immediate resolution, but if he's this volatile, you're creating danger for yourself and doing a terrible job of solving anything. Depending on the severity of the situation, his behavior could be emotionally abusive in moments of anger. Do you feel like you're walking on eggshells to keep from upsetting him? Do you feel like he never makes time to listen to your grievances or deal with something you consider a real problem? Do you guys ever resolve your problems, or do you just sort of sweep them under the rug? Does he intimidate you or diminish your self-esteem with his anger? If so, you guys are in a bad dynamic and you need to address it.

You need to get a counselor to deal with your feelings. You say that you're a hypersensitive person. There are many of us out there who are hypersensitive. You have to learn how to control it. Just like he can't control freaking out and raging, you can't control freaking out and feeling pain -- only, both of you actually CAN do so, if you learn and train yourselves not to rely on your instinctual responses. A counselor can help you do this. Trust me, this will help you learn the tools you need to deal with this problem.



sweetpotato said:


> To sum it up: What should I do?
> 
> (a) Walk away from him & don't talk to him until he is calm.
> ***IF I do this, how do I handle my own hurt feelings?
> ...


A. Yes, walk away and talk about it when you are both calm. Insist, later, when he is calm, that you both agree on a scheduled time to discuss things and then....discuss the problem and try to find a solution. If things get heated, stop, come back to the topic later.

B. NO!! This is dangerous and bad. It's forcing him to feel more out of control and you risk his anger becoming violent. It's also training him to see all instances of disagreement as triggers to his anger. Don't enable it. Remove yourself from the situation and cal down. FORCE is not a word you should be using. If you're coercing him, then you're being controlling. Think about this.

C. You should BOTH get anger management training, together. And you should get counseling, too.

You guys have poor conflict resolution skills. If you don't want this to become a problem, address the issues. 

First, educate yourself on these topics:

Read "His Needs Her Needs" (Willard Harley), "The Five Love Languages" or "The Five Languages of Apology" (or both; by Gary Chapman), and "Controlling People" (Patricia Evans) and Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men (by Lundy Bancroft)

Second, get counseling for yourselves.

Third, don't ever force a situation to resolution when potential violence or volatile anger is in the mix.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

The problem in our marriage is that we BOTH have bad tempers and no patience at times, and it's never ever physical but terrible things do get said and occasionally doors get slammed and things get thrown on the counters or up against the walls at times!


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

alone_not_lonely said:


> If the anger scares or intimidates you it is a problem. Have you told him how scary it is to you? Are you able to talk to him about your concern in a calm time and suggest that is the reason you would like him to attend counselling? Mine used to rage something awful but said he would never hit me. A couple of years down the track it was all too easy for him to do so, and in front of our child. Last straw. He didn't see it as a problem so never sought help. I didn't push the issue. It took me walking out 5 months ago for him to tell me he recognised he had a problem... never did anything to fix it though. But that's lip service for ya.
> 
> Things do often escalate, and if you are afraid of him now and can't tell him so, it is a huge red flag. An even bigger one if he doesn't want to do anything about it. If it does go any further into physical violence... Get out. Run for the hills. Click your heels as you go because you will just keep giving him chances otherwise, and it will just get worse. If they don't think it's broke, they don't fix it.
> 
> I do sincerely hope your husband chooses to be a better man than mine.


:iagree::iagree: 
My stbxh refuses to admit that we have a problem, even though when he would get mad at me, he'd threaten to beat me up if I didn't get away, even over little things. Since he never actually did beat me up, I just assumed it was a bad explosive temper, spoken in the heat of the moment. He almost never apologized, blamed me for his anger and provoking him, and still thinks he's in the right, even though I left. My h was mostly kind, loving and sweet, but then his anger started to make an appearance and it became more frequent but I made excuses, he became verbally abusive and I made excuses, his controlling increased and I made excuses, he started disrespecting me and I made excuses, he started cheating and I objected and his anger escalated a lot and began to include serious mind games and some physical displays of anger; when I realized that the situation just wasn't improving, I removed myself from it. I hope your situation turns out better, but I will advise you to keep your eyes open.

Things WILL escalate. If you're scared now, don't ignore it. He's got to get himself under control or you've got to get yourself out of there until he does. 



Gratitude said:


> Some people do have anger control issues. It's not just for you to "deal" with though. You don't need to wait around for his blow outs, he is the one who needs to get a handle on it.


You can't fix him or change him. If he thinks this is perfectly acceptable behavior, then he will not change it. Only if he, himself, sees that it is a problem for him will he change his behavior. You can express to him that you have a problem, but you can't force him do do something. Just try to get him to marriage counseling with you so that eh understands how much his behavior is having an impact on you. He may not understand how he is treating you. 



sweetpotato said:


> My husband has not been physically abusive, and says he would never hit me. But, sometimes he gets so angry, I fear he might do it. I will say that he only blames me when he is in that state of mind. After he has calmed down, he apologizes, and accepts full responsibility. But, maybe I am naiive, and this is just guilt... just an act..?


Not an act. Often, people who behave abusively do not do it intentionally or maliciously, but because they do not know how to handle frustration, anger, or annoyance in healthier ways. If he doesn't learn how to control it, it WILL escalate. You are afraid. That is not okay.



kittykat09 said:


> He sounds abusive. It isn't just that he gets angry, it is that he blames you for trying to resolve the situation. That isn't ok. It sounds like he overreacts to things and tries to get you to take full responsibility.
> 
> No, his anger is HIS responsibility. He needs help. Angry men are scary, and angry men who don't take care of their anger turn into physically abusive monsters.
> 
> If you think anger management will actually fix it, get him to do it. Otherwise you might need to permanently get out of that situation. It is NOT your fault that he handles his anger the way he does, do NOT let him try to convince you it is.


:iagree:
Kitty Kat is correct here. He is trying to suggest that the problem lies with you when the problem is actually his anger. Don't let him manipulate or gas-light you otherwise.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

One thing I cannot stand and will never tolerate is seeing or hearing about a man hitting or beating on a woman, and if I'm made aware of it that person will then have to deal with - ME(and at 6'3 and 248 lbs with a bad temper that's not a good idea)!!


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

sweetpotato said:


> Hello. I'd really appreciate some advice. I'm in my 20s, and recently married.
> 
> My husband is kind and calm most of the time. However, other times, he will completely overreact and EXPLODE. His anger is completely disproportionate to the situation. At times, I see it coming. But, at times I see no reason. Often, it's while he is playing video games. He's like jekyll and hyde!
> 
> ...


I would walk away. If you know how he is, and he knows how he is come up with a solution for when there is next time... Perhaps keep it from escalating to where you are hurt. 

There's no quick fix for it, if you want to remain in your marriage. But if you and your H can communicate well, you can work on it collectively, I think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Tell him in the calmest voice you can muster that you want to work this out, but that you will not be talked to disrespectfully. Tell him you are leaving and will return in 30 minutes to see if he has his anger under control. Then go for a walk. Go get some coffee. Find an empty parking lot somewhere and call a friend. Do something to take care of yourself for 30 minutes.

If this makes him even more angry, you have a serious problem on your hands. If he tries to block you from leaving, you can be certain you are in an abusive situation. At that point, your only option will be to file for divorce. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but if he can't respect your need to get away from his anger for a half hour, you are married to an abuser. It will not get any better.

If he respects your need to get away from him temporarily, there might be a glimmer of hope. But he needs help with his issues.

DO NOT try to match him anger-for-anger. If you stoop to his level and yell back, it will only make things worse. By remaining calm and leaving him, albeit temporarily, you are maintaining control of the situation and showing him that his behavior will not be tolerated. 

If there's any hope of him changing, he will respect your wishes. If he tries to follow you outside to continue the argument, or if he tries to physically block you from leaving, you have an abuser for a husband. Run away like your ass is on fire.

I'm serious....


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> DO NOT try to match him anger-for-anger. If you stoop to his level and yell back, it will only make things worse. By remaining calm and leaving him, albeit temporarily, you are maintaining control of the situation and showing him that his behavior will not be tolerated.


I think this varies. Some bullies back off if you stand up to them, but not all abusers are bullies, some of them have other issues going on, like learned bad habits. That's what I see here. Unfortunately, I don't think "standing up to him" would work in OP's situation, especially given her H's past history as a victim of abuse. 

He's asking her to leave so he doesn't inflict his rage upon her and she is trying to push the problem to resolution, not realizing how dangerous his anger might be. 

In her instance, I think you're right that the very best thing to do is to calmly state that she knows he is upset and so she is going to give him some space and will come back in a half an hour and then to do so. In OPs case, I think that trying to out-anger him or to press the issues any further will enrage him and become dangerous. 

She needs to learn how not to provoke a volatile situation and he needs to learn how not to be so volatile. I suspect that OP is feeling a little powerless and her attempts at pushing for resolution cone from being trapped in a power cycle. Just a hunch.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Sweetpotato, the behaviors you describe -- temper tantrums, verbal abuse, lack of impulse control, rapid Jekyll-Hyde transformations, and very controlling actions -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Only a professional can determine whether your H's BPD traits are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. 

Yet, for the purposes of deciding whether your H can sustain a marriage, you don't need to know whether his traits meet the diagnostic threshold. Even when those traits fall well short of that threshold, they can make your life miserable and destroy a marriage. Moreover, strong BPD traits are easy to identify when occurring in a man you've been married to for a year. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about behavior such as verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, and temper tantrums. 

Significantly, I don't know whether he is a BPDer (i.e.,whether he has most BPD traits at a strong level). I am confident, however, that you can spot the red flags (i.e., strong occurrences of BPD traits) if you take time to read about them. I therefore suggest that, if you are still reluctant to walk away from him, you read about BPD traits so you know how to recognize the danger signs.


sweetpotato said:


> My husband is kind and calm most of the time. However, other times, he will completely overreact and EXPLODE. His anger is completely disproportionate to the situation.... He's like jekyll and hyde!


This behavior of flipping -- in seconds -- from adoring you to devaluing you is called "black-white thinking." This all-or-nothing thinking is one of the hallmarks of BPDers. It is most evident in the way a BPDer categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad." Moreover, he will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in only ten seconds -- based solely on an innocuous remark or minor infraction.

B-W thinking occurs in BPDers because they are extremely uncomfortable with ambiguities and mixed feelings and with cognitive dissonance (where one part of your mind believes something contradicting what is believed in another part of your mind). A BPDer therefore shoehorns his perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations into a B-W dichotomy -- not seeing that real people live in the gray area in between those polar extremes. 

This is why strong BPD traits are said to constitute a "thought distortion." This is true to a lesser degree, by the way, for all of us. Every time you get intense feelings (e.g., infatuation or anger) your judgement of other peoples' intentions becomes distorted -- which is you try to wait until you cool off before making decisions or taking actions.


> His dad was abusive. ...He's been verbally and physically abusive to his wife and kids.


BPD is believed to be partly due to genetics and partly due to the early childhood environment. A recent study of nearly 35,000 American adults (pub. 2008) found 6% of the adult population has BPD at the diagnostic level during their lifetimes. It also found that 70% of the BPDers reported having been abused or abandoned during childhood.

As to your H's dad being physically abusive to H's mother, I note that Roger Melton -- author of _When Mr. Right Turns Out to be Mr. Wrong -- _reports that nearly all wife batterers have a full blown PD and about half of them have BPD. Melton obtained those results from a study performed by a research team at the Univ. of British Columbia (pub. 2006). See Romeo's Bleeding - When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong -- Health & Wellness -- Sott.net.


> Some articles I've read, and my own husband agrees, advise that I should just get away from him when he is in that state.


I agree with KittyKat and EleGirl that it's your H's own responsibility to calm himself down. If you assume the role of trying to be his "soothing object," he will never have an incentive to learn how to do self-calming -- a skill the rest of us acquired in childhood.


> If I do talk to him while he is in that state, he will often say nasty things to me, and blame me for it because I talked to him.


If he is a BPDer, the blame-shifting will get worse as the years go by. The reason is that BPDers, being convinced they are always "victims," seek to continually validate that false self image by perceiving of their spouses as "perpetrators" who are responsible for every misfortune.


> After he has calmed down, he apologizes, and accepts full responsibility.


SGW is spot on in saying "NO HE DOESN'T. What he DOES is apologize. 'I'm sorry' fixes NOTHING. If he was REALLY sorry and accepting full responsibility (as you say), he would CHANGE his BEHAVIOR." I also agree with SGW and Sanity that a man who is already raging one year into the marriage is only going to get worse. Moreover, the behavior of his dad -- which includes both physical and verbal abuse -- is the best predictor of what will likely happen.


> Why can't he just control himself?


He CAN control himself. He simply chooses not to. Like a spoiled child, he has no incentive to do so. If you doubt that, think back to all those times he was "out of control" in a rage and a friend of his knocked on the front door or called. What you likely saw was the instant transformation of a raging man into the calmest, most friendly guy you've ever seen. 

What? He had no friends to call or knock on the door? In that case, do a simple experiment: the next time he is raging out of control, simply pick up the phone and call the police. As soon as there is one knock on the door, you should see the complete transformation I just described. 

Like I said, the man is fully capable of controlling himself but will never do so unless he is allowed to suffer the logical consequences of his terrible behavior. This is why it is important that you not protect and shelter him from those consequences.


> Maybe it's like depression where you can't shut off that voice in your head.


No, it's not like depression because deep depression usually arises from a body chemistry change -- not from a conscious choice or distorted perception. That's why depression and bipolar disorder usually can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill. In contrast, BPD traits cannot be managed with medication (but the side effects of anxiety and depression can be).

Instead of thinking of your H as a depressed man, it likely would be far more accurate to think of him as an angry four year old having the intelligence, cunning, and body strength of a full grown man. I say this because, if he has most BPD traits at a strong level, his emotional development is frozen at the level of a four year old.


> I feel so weak and foolish.


That's just a feeling. Don't believe it. As Gratitude says above, "Life is just one big lesson."


> What should I do?


I applaud your decision to see a therapist on your own, Sweetpotato. I suggest you see a clinical psychologist to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. 

I agree with all the other posters who are advising you to walk away and to focus on your own healing, not your H's problems. Only HE is able to fix himself and he is refusing to seek treatment. Yet, if you are not ready to walk away, I would encourage you to read more about BPD traits so you are able to determine if most of the red flags are present. 

An easy place to start reading is my post in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Sweetpotato.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*It is genetic*

No it's not. Behaviors are learned. Coping strategies, how to show emotions, manners, ....it's all learned behavior. It can be managed, but adults have to want to change unacceptable behaviors.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

Gratitude said:


> He might get counselling if you tell him you can't live with it anymore. It depends on how you feel. Do you feel you're living on eggshells? Does he blow up over nothing? Was he particulary spoilt as a child?
> 
> Some people do have anger control issues. It's not just for you to "deal" with though. You don't need to wait around for his blow outs, he is the one who needs to get a handle on it.
> 
> If all he does is play video games in his free time, do you two ever get any time together? Is that when he usually blows up? Why, because you interrupted his game? Are these games an issue for you?


I don't feel like I'm living on eggshells, really. It used to feel that way, but he has improved a bit. It's only when he's in a bad mood. 

He admits he was spoiled as a child from what I've heard. During high school, his mom basically didn't bother disciplining him, or expecting him to do chores, and be there for dinner. He was the favorite because he looked most like his dad and grandpa. 

He'll play video games until 4am most nights. Then, on the weekend he'll often sleep in until 3pm. I've just learned that usually, that is the only time he gets all to himself, so I try to accept it. But, sometimes, I wake up in the middle of the night because he's not there, and I anticipate him coming in and inadvertently waking me up. 

Usually, he'll come lay down next to me, and leave once I've fallen asleep. Yeah, a lot of the times he blows up like this are when he's playing video games. He'll get really mad at the other players, and if I come in to talk to him, he'll yell at me too. But, it's not like he's mad every time he's playing games. And, I can't always tell his mood. Sometimes I come in to talk to him, and it doesn't bother him. It just depends on his mood.

This particular night, the door was open. I had told him earlier that I wanted to play a video game with him. I went in and said "Hi" and he said "hi" back. I say that he was on the game that tends to frustrate him the most sometimes, and I muttered "Oh, no it's this game." He was all "What?!" I repeated what I said, and said, "It means I can't talk to you now." And he said "Yeah, you can't talk to me now or ever!!"

I went upstairs, and facebook messaged him "Don't talk to me now or ever? I just wanted to play that game with you. Spend some time together before going to sleep. So much for that." I thought he wasn't online & wouldn't see it, or would just ignore it. But he replied, he said "sorry," then he said, "Actually no, not even. The fact that you came in here and opened with that tone set it up for me." He said "I'm sorry we can't play together, but I'm F****** pissed!" And, it escalated from there.

I'm not blaming myself, and I still expect him to own up to his actions. However, I made the mistakes of responding to him. I kept talking to him via text, which irritated him even more. I may have said some things that set some things that pushed his buttons. Like, I texted, "when you're pissed, I can't win no matter what you say." And, I texted him "How can I sleep when you're treating me like this over one smart a** [according to him] comment?"

After that, via text, he basically said stop talking to me, you know how I am when I'm angry, and you're just looking to start a fight. I said, "No, honey. The last thing I want to do is fight." Then, he texted, "STFU You F****** started this s*** Please stop talking to me. I'm about to f****** lose it."


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

moxy said:


> This is correct. You should get away from him until he calms down. You may want quick and immediate resolution, but if he's this volatile, you're creating danger for yourself and doing a terrible job of solving anything. Depending on the severity of the situation, his behavior could be emotionally abusive in moments of anger. Do you feel like you're walking on eggshells to keep from upsetting him? Do you feel like he never makes time to listen to your grievances or deal with something you consider a real problem? Do you guys ever resolve your problems, or do you just sort of sweep them under the rug? Does he intimidate you or diminish your self-esteem with his anger? If so, you guys are in a bad dynamic and you need to address it.
> 
> You need to get a counselor to deal with your feelings. You say that you're a hypersensitive person. There are many of us out there who are hypersensitive. You have to learn how to control it. Just like he can't control freaking out and raging, you can't control freaking out and feeling pain -- only, both of you actually CAN do so, if you learn and train yourselves not to rely on your instinctual responses. A counselor can help you do this. Trust me, this will help you learn the tools you need to deal with this problem.
> 
> ...


This is very good advice. Your husband sounds like he has very poor impulse control and you are admittedly hypersensitive. You both need IC to try to work at your respective issues. You are both young. Consider it a learning and growth experience.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

alone_not_lonely said:


> Wow. My stbx to a tee, (a similar version of the dog comment was used) he didn't think he had a problem with anger and didn't like the idea of getting help. I can only ASSUME it was because if someone told him he was in the wrong he wouldn't like it very much
> 
> I walked away from arguments, he followed. Sometimes it doesn't always work. Try to see how it goes though. As suggested above, have an area you can go to to calm down, and wait until he is calm as well.
> 
> ...


There are some times where it gets scary. Usually that's because I keep talking to him. I start out calm, using a completely flat tone. I try to reach out to him, but he can turn around anything I say when he's angry. Obviously, I'm not perfect. I've made some critical errors. Sometimes, I'll fight back. But, I never say "shut up" or call him names or anything. A few times, I have said some things I regretted. Basically stooped to his level to get back at him. It's rare that he gets scary. 

I tell him when he's calm if he scared me, or hurt my feelings. And, he apologizes, and such. 

There are times where it's more like a temper tantrum. And, I just want to roll my eyes.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Whenever I blow my stack and say a ton of horrible things I always feel really really guilty and ashamed shortly afterwards, and I do not like getting angry but I don't know how to stop it yet and I end up apologizing 1,000 times.

Does anyone else fully know & understand what I am talking about either with yourself or your spouse?


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> My H was exactly the same - not a sulker but really volatile, the whole house had to walk on eggshells when he had the hump (which was most of the time)
> 
> he used to shout and swear at the TV, the computer, everything
> 
> ...


Mine doesn't talk about his temper like he's proud of it. At least not when he's calmed down. He usually tries to hide it, and is ashamed of showing it to others. I was friends with him in high school & I never in a million years would have guess he could get so angry and mean.

That's exactly it, he will say things I would never say to him. He's said things to me that no one has ever said to me in my entire life! Sometimes I think I should have left him the day he called me a "b****"

On the other hand, he normally says the sweetest things to me. He always tells me he loves me, and asks me if I'm alright when I look upset. If he's not in a bad mood, he'll leave an online game he's playing where people are counting on him, in order to comfort me. He'll interrupt his games to lay down with me when I'm going to sleep. He reassures me about my figure flaws, and has never made a negative comment about me being overweight--not even when he's angry.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> My husband has an explosive temper too, but he is not abusive to me or our kids. He gets angry at computer glitches, bad drivers, household repair problems, and the minor irritations of life. Once the anger is released, he is fine. I on the other hand, am slow to anger but when I do get mad it takes me a long time to get over it. I also have to work on not holding grudges, which he never does.
> 
> I think that the key issue is how he treats you. Does he call you names in an argument? My husband has never done this. Of course he should never be physically abusive to you either.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm the same way. I really hold grudges, whereas he seems to get over things pretty easily. (But, maybe he's just burying the grudge and still holds onto it). And, yes, if I say anything to him, it only makes the situation worse.

He has muttered "b****" twice in our 6 year relationship.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

sweetpotato said:


> Mine doesn't talk about his temper like he's proud of it. At least not when he's calmed down. He usually tries to hide it, and is ashamed of showing it to others. I was friends with him in high school & I never in a million years would have guess he could get so angry and mean.
> 
> That's exactly it, he will say things I would never say to him. He's said things to me that no one has ever said to me in my entire life! Sometimes I think I should have left him the day he called me a "b****"
> 
> On the other hand, he normally says the sweetest things to me. He always tells me he loves me, and asks me if I'm alright when I look upset. If he's not in a bad mood, he'll leave an online game he's playing where people are counting on him, in order to comfort me. He'll interrupt his games to lay down with me when I'm going to sleep. He reassures me about my figure flaws, and has never made a negative comment about me being overweight--not even when he's angry.


Sweet, I agree with Uptown....this sounds a lot like BPD. In addition to other books recommend here, Id like to suggest "Stop waling on eggshells." See if what the book describes fits. 

Dont blame yourself for not reacting perfectly. Most of us struggle to behave rationally when we're confronted with irrational behavior.

Keep yourself safe!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

moxy said:


> This is correct. You should get away from him until he calms down. You may want quick and immediate resolution, but if he's this volatile, you're creating danger for yourself and doing a terrible job of solving anything. Depending on the severity of the situation, his behavior could be emotionally abusive in moments of anger. Do you feel like you're walking on eggshells to keep from upsetting him? Do you feel like he never makes time to listen to your grievances or deal with something you consider a real problem? Do you guys ever resolve your problems, or do you just sort of sweep them under the rug? Does he intimidate you or diminish your self-esteem with his anger? If so, you guys are in a bad dynamic and you need to address it.
> 
> You need to get a counselor to deal with your feelings. You say that you're a hypersensitive person. There are many of us out there who are hypersensitive. You have to learn how to control it. Just like he can't control freaking out and raging, you can't control freaking out and feeling pain -- only, both of you actually CAN do so, if you learn and train yourselves not to rely on your instinctual responses. A counselor can help you do this. Trust me, this will help you learn the tools you need to deal with this problem.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know I can't fix anything when he's angry like that. That's something I'm still working on. Some days, I'm successful, other days, not so much. 

As far as walking on eggshells... Most of the time, I feel I can talk to him about anything. However, there are certain topics that will trigger him to become defensive maybe 60% of the time I bring them up; such as his career and educational goals. He may say "I don't want to talk about it." and "sweep it under the rug." Then, 40% of the time, he'll try to discuss it with me, but mostly say "I don't know" to my questions.

My self-esteem is pretty easily diminished. That's another problem I have that's long overdo for counseling. He's said things like "you're a broken record" which make me feel bad about myself sometimes.

Thank you for your suggestions. I actually had that book, "why does he do that?" But, I'm not sure what I did with it. I'll look into those other books. I'll work on getting counseling for myself, and hopefully convince him to go. I need to learn some conflict resolution skills, for sure.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

moxy said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> My stbxh refuses to admit that we have a problem, even though when he would get mad at me, he'd threaten to beat me up if I didn't get away, even over little things. Since he never actually did beat me up, I just assumed it was a bad explosive temper, spoken in the heat of the moment. He almost never apologized, blamed me for his anger and provoking him, and still thinks he's in the right, even though I left. My h was mostly kind, loving and sweet, but then his anger started to make an appearance and it became more frequent but I made excuses, he became verbally abusive and I made excuses, his controlling increased and I made excuses, he started disrespecting me and I made excuses, he started cheating and I objected and his anger escalated a lot and began to include serious mind games and some physical displays of anger; when I realized that the situation just wasn't improving, I removed myself from it. I hope your situation turns out better, but I will advise you to keep your eyes open.
> 
> Things WILL escalate. If you're scared now, don't ignore it. He's got to get himself under control or you've got to get yourself out of there until he does.
> ...


In our 6 year relationship, it's escalated to the really scary point, maybe three times?? I am not completely blameless. Part of the reason may have been because I forced him to talk it out with me. I wouldn't leave him alone. 

In one instance, I did everything to prevent him leaving. He walked away from me, and went into the closet and told me to leave him alone because he was scared he might hurt me, and he didn't want to do that. He wasn't exactly threatening to do it. It was more like, he was aware he was losing control, and trying to save me from himself. But, I couldn't leave well enough alone, and he slammed his fist against the door frame. Another time, he punched his fist through the plaster wall. 

He does not see his behavior as acceptable, except for when he's in those moods. I think he wants to change. He has made progress. Some fights, things turned out really well because BOTH of us responded appropriately, and he was able to get himself under control. I think he understands how much he's hurt me. I think he feels guilty about it, and that doesn't exactly help, because he'll turn against himself. He'll get down on himself, which hurts his confidence in himself, and makes him feel powerless against everything, including controlling his anger. But, he doesn't want to get help for some reason.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> Tell him in the calmest voice you can muster that you want to work this out, but that you will not be talked to disrespectfully. Tell him you are leaving and will return in 30 minutes to see if he has his anger under control. Then go for a walk. Go get some coffee. Find an empty parking lot somewhere and call a friend. Do something to take care of yourself for 30 minutes.
> 
> If this makes him even more angry, you have a serious problem on your hands. If he tries to block you from leaving, you can be certain you are in an abusive situation. At that point, your only option will be to file for divorce. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but if he can't respect your need to get away from his anger for a half hour, you are married to an abuser. It will not get any better.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's what I need to work on doing. 

-I need to not take his anger so personally.
-I need to work on calmly telling him I'm not going to be talked to like that, and walk away, and leave him alone.

Most of the time, he's fine with me walking away, or even leaving the house. But, on rare occasion, he gets mad at me for leaving the house. He says he's worried about me.

Most of the time, I don't stoop to his level, but sadly I can't say I've never done that either. I need to work on that, too. Because, I know how badly it escalates when that happens.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Sweetpotato, the behaviors you describe -- temper tantrums, verbal abuse, lack of impulse control, rapid Jekyll-Hyde transformations, and very controlling actions -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Only a professional can determine whether your H's BPD traits are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD.
> 
> Yet, for the purposes of deciding whether your H can sustain a marriage, you don't need to know whether his traits meet the diagnostic threshold. Even when those traits fall well short of that threshold, they can make your life miserable and destroy a marriage. Moreover, strong BPD traits are easy to identify when occurring in a man you've been married to for a year. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about behavior such as verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, and temper tantrums.
> 
> ...


Well, you've given me a lot to research and think about. 

He plays a lot of online games. Sometimes, he'll yell at them too, when he's upset. Other times, he'll act completely calm and normal. We live with roommates right now, and during a fight, he can walk out and talk to them like nothing is going on at times. Not always though... A lot of times, it is clear he's upset.

I've read, and re-read your post. I'll keep what you said in mind. 

Thank you.


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## MmHo (Mar 29, 2012)

sweetpotato said:


> Hello. I'd really appreciate some advice. I'm in my 20s, and recently married.
> 
> My husband is kind and calm most of the time. However, other times, he will completely overreact and EXPLODE. His anger is completely disproportionate to the situation. At times, I see it coming. But, at times I see no reason. Often, it's while he is playing video games. He's like jekyll and hyde!
> 
> ...


I have experienced exactly the same thing with STBXH completely out of control temper disproportionate to what the problem was. It made me really ill and depressed. Cos I am like you sensitive and caring and have a quiet nature, even though I can be fun as well. I don't think the video games are to blame but the probably do exascerbate his problem.
His daughter(doctor) said he has Borderline Personality Disorder and told me to read the book walking on eggshells.... then it all made sense.
I can guarantee it will get worse for you because he knows how to hurt you and BPDers hurt people and wear them down.
Even if you weren't a sensitive soul you still would have major problems dealing with someone with so much anger.
I stood it for nearly 3years but I am a complete emotional wreck and in therapy for the first time in my life.
I wish you luck with all of it in the future.


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## MmHo (Mar 29, 2012)

kittykat09 said:


> He sounds abusive. It isn't just that he gets angry, it is that he blames you for trying to resolve the situation. That isn't ok. It sounds like he overreacts to things and tries to get you to take full responsibility. It is your responsibility to leave if he is angry, it is your responsibility to not talk to him if he is angry, it is your responsibility if you DO talk to him and he is nasty.
> 
> No, his anger is HIS responsibility. He needs help. Angry men are scary, and angry men who don't take care of their anger turn into physically abusive monsters.
> 
> If you think anger management will actually fix it, get him to do it. Otherwise you might need to permanently get out of that situation. It is NOT your fault that he handles his anger the way he does, do NOT let him try to convince you it is.


:iagree: 
My STBXH refused point blank to go and of course I was the one with problem:scratchhead:


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> Sweet, I agree with Uptown....this sounds a lot like BPD. In addition to other books recommend here, Id like to suggest "Stop waling on eggshells." See if what the book describes fits.
> 
> Dont blame yourself for not reacting perfectly. Most of us struggle to behave rationally when we're confronted with irrational behavior.
> 
> ...


BPD would be really bad news. I think my ex-step mom had it.

Thanks for the reassurance, and book recommendation. 

I don't really feel like I'm in danger. I don't feel like he would really hurt me, unless I really kept pushing him, and stooped to his level. I did that once. If I walk away, he doesn't follow me.

If you anyone isn't reassured by that, we do live with roommates. It's another couple, and a guy friend. My husband is only a couple inches taller than me, and the same weight. One of the guys we're living with is much bigger and taller than my husband. The other is taller, but the same weight.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

MmHo said:


> I have experienced exactly the same thing with STBXH completely out of control temper disproportionate to what the problem was. It made me really ill and depressed. Cos I am like you sensitive and caring and have a quiet nature, even though I can be fun as well. I don't think the video games are to blame but the probably do exascerbate his problem.
> His daughter(doctor) said he has Borderline Personality Disorder and told me to read the book walking on eggshells.... then it all made sense.
> I can guarantee it will get worse for you because he knows how to hurt you and BPDers hurt people and wear them down.
> Even if you weren't a sensitive soul you still would have major problems dealing with someone with so much anger.
> ...


Thank you for sharing your story. 

I hope it's not BPD. But, I have to be open to the possibility that it is, and that it's not going to get any better. I mean, we've been together for such a long time. And, it's still happening. Maybe I made a huge mistake in marrying him. I really thought we could work it out. 

Thank you.


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## MmHo (Mar 29, 2012)

sweetpotato said:


> Yes, that's what I need to work on doing.
> 
> -I need to not take his anger so personally.
> -I need to work on calmly telling him I'm not going to be talked to like that, and walk away, and leave him alone.
> ...


I just would like to say without causing any offence that maybe he should be the one to leave the house because he is the one whose upsetting you.... let him go and cool off somewhere like going and jumping in the nearest lake!! Only kidding!! Why should you be forced to leave your home. He is controlling you with his anger and disrupting your homelife. My husband had me do this a lot and it was a very lonely place on MacDonalds car park crying into my coffee.
So I turned the tables and made him go out in th freezing cold and cool off.... God it was heaven when he was gone!! It didn't change anything his anger got worse and i left last September.
Even though I am a mess emotionally I have peace in my own home.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> Biggest mistake a lot of woman make in marriages is not walking away when this happens.
> 
> You should go beyond just letting him calm down.
> Stay away from him, be quiet, don't be in same room, don't do anything for him.
> ...


Yeah, I've noticed that talking to him just brings out my bad side, and gives him a reason (in his mind) to be angry at me. Leaving him alone usually makes him see the errors of his ways. But, I really need to learn to control myself, and refrain from talking to him.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

MmHo said:


> I just would like to say without causing any offence that maybe he should be the one to leave the house because he is the one whose upsetting you.... let him go and cool off somewhere like going and jumping in the nearest lake!! Only kidding!! Why should you be forced to leave your home. He is controlling you with his anger and disrupting your homelife. My husband had me do this a lot and it was a very lonely place on MacDonalds car park crying into my coffee.
> So I turned the tables and made him go out in th freezing cold and cool off.... God it was heaven when he was gone!! It didn't change anything his anger got worse and i left last September.
> Even though I am a mess emotionally I have peace in my own home.


Jump in the lake! Haha. That made me laugh.  Not many lakes nearby, I'm in a desert, but maybe a swimming pool, haha. 

That's a good point. It should be him leaving, but I'd be kind of scared about him driving in that state. I don't want someone else getting hurt. And, I don't think I could force him to leave without triggering even more anger.


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

sweetpotato said:


> Some articles I've read, and my own husband agrees, advise that I should just get away from him when he is in that state.


This is very true. When I'm having a really bad day, I just want to be left alone. 




> As far as walking on eggshells... Most of the time, I feel I can talk to him about anything. However, there are certain topics that will trigger him to become defensive maybe 60% of the time I bring them up; such as his career and educational goals. He may say "I don't want to talk about it." and "sweep it under the rug." Then, 40% of the time, he'll try to discuss it with me, but mostly say "I don't know" to my questions.


I've been depressed before, and it sounds like your husband is depressed. He shows a lot of signs of low dopamine:
-not motivated to tackle real life problems
-doesn't want to talk about real life problems
-addicted to video games

I did all of that. Stayed up very late playing games, didn't care about career, didn't care about education, didn't care about relationships. It was horrible and it went on for years. My behaviour improved after I started taking Wellbutrin.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

MmHo said:


> I just would like to say without causing any offence that maybe he should be the one to leave the house because he is the one whose upsetting you.... let him go and cool off somewhere like going and jumping in the nearest lake!! Only kidding!! Why should you be forced to leave your home. He is controlling you with his anger and disrupting your homelife. My husband had me do this a lot and it was a very lonely place on MacDonalds car park crying into my coffee.
> So I turned the tables and made him go out in th freezing cold and cool off.... God it was heaven when he was gone!! It didn't change anything his anger got worse and i left last September.
> Even though I am a mess emotionally I have peace in my own home.


If he's really out of control, he's not going to respond to reasonable requests to leave. It sucks, but the person who has control of their reason should be the one to disengage. Im not sure asking an angry man to do something he might not want to do is wise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

ShawnD said:


> This is very true. When I'm having a really bad day, I just want to be left alone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's another possibility. He mentioned suicide before. He once said he's not really afraid of heights, he just was afraid he might jump. Once in our relationship, he threatened to kill himself when we were arguing. 

He doesn't seem to have much self-confidence. He plays video games, and is always multi-tasking to avoid dealing with things. 

He's only working part-time. He's applied at a few places, and seems really discouraged by it. He doesn't know what kind of career he wants, and has said he feels he is letting me down. He didn't tell me about applying to any jobs because he said he didn't want to see me disappointed when he doesn't get one. 

It took him 4 years to get enough credits for a basic AA degree. He withdrew from a lot of classes, and had to re-take a lot to improve his GPA. Right now, he's thinking about getting a phlebotomycertificate...


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> Would you let a stranger do that to you!
> 
> Be a strong woman. If you don't get stronger it's not going to end well for you.


That's the problem. I'm pretty weak. And, the fact that I've forgiven him time after time makes me feel worse about myself. 

I know. No one else has ever treated me this way. A stranger wouldn't do this, or I wouldn't let a stranger do it. I've told him, even the bullies in school weren't as cruel to me as he was.


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## BearMoose22 (Apr 13, 2012)

I have experience with this, my first husband acted much the same and I just kept thinking I could change him but I couldnt, he faulted me for his temper most of the time. I tried to stay out if his way when his temper flared but as time passed he only got worse. Long story short...I got pregnant, my husband lost his temper one day when I was 8 months along. He left me black and blue for no other reason than he was angry and I was there. I left him...I couldn't live with the thought that he might lash out at our child someday. He didn't change after I was gone either. I was in my 20s and thought my life was over but I stayed strong for my child and later met a man that I didn't have to tip toe around to ne happy. I have been married to him for 24 years. Please take care of you and know that you can't change another persons behavior, you can only change your own. Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

BearMoose22 said:


> I have experience with this, my first husband acted much the same and I just kept thinking I could change him but I couldnt, he faulted me for his temper most of the time. I tried to stay out if his way when his temper flared but as time passed he only got worse. Long story short...I got pregnant, my husband lost his temper one day when I was 8 months along. He left me black and blue for no other reason than he was angry and I was there. I left him...I couldn't live with the thought that he might lash out at our child someday. He didn't change after I was gone either. I was in my 20s and thought my life was over but I stayed strong for my child and later met a man that I didn't have to tip toe around to ne happy. I have been married to him for 24 years. Please take care of you and know that you can't change another persons behavior, you can only change your own. Good luck!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry to hear about what happened to you. That's awful. But, I'm glad you left and found someone who treats you well. Thank you.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

He's still sleeping. I don't know what I'm going to say to him when he wakes up.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Sweets...you have elicited a lot of responses from all of us. For some reason, your dilemma has a lot of us on here concerned. Let me tell you a few things I'm seeing here. But before I do, let me say how sorry I am that you are dealing with this. No one should be afraid of their own spouse. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. But let me share with you a few things I'm observing:

(1) He blames you for his anger. This is a huge red flag. All abusers do this. If he can't take ownership of his feelings of anger, then there isn't much hope of things getting better. It sounds like he is willing to own the problem after the fact, so that tells me there's a glimmer of hope. But don't let him blame you for his anger. That's a red flag.

(2) You say he has physically punched inanimate objects, putting holes in walls, etc. That's another big red flag. He's looking to take his anger out on something. Let's hope this doesn't progress to his taking his anger out on someONE. A person who can't keep himself from punching a hole in drywall is a dangerous person. I might set my coffee cup down firmly when I get angry, but I've never broken it. There's a difference.

(3) He repeatedly mentions suicide and jumping from high objects. I think if all of us were honest, we'd all admit that the thought of suicide has at least crossed our minds a time or two during times of feeling overwhelmed. But most of us immediately dismiss that thought out of hand. Your husband sounds like he's thought about it a little too much. I think there may be some real self-hatred issues here that may be the source of his anger.

(4) You said he is sweet to you by leaving his video game and coming to lay down with you when you go to sleep. Maybe for him that's a big sacrifice. But does he do anything with you when you're awake? Is he wasting all the potential together time the two of you could be spending by playing online games? I'm all in favor of each marriage partner having their own interests and hobbies, but this sounds like it's a habitual thing for him to spend most of his time on his games and not with you. If he's doing this more than 2 or 3 nights a week (and I'm being very generous with that much time), this is another red flag to me . Him leaving his game for a few minutes to put you to bed isn't exactly being Mr. Romance. Him forgetting the game to focus on just being with you - talking, helping out around the house, whatever - is what you have a right to expect. Don't set your expectations too low!

(5) You said you had forgiven him time and time and time again. I fall into this trap myself. I told a friend once that I had accepted the unacceptable from my wife for so long that I didn't see how I could suddenly start standing up for myself now. But that is NOT healthy thinking! Just because you accepted someone treating you badly yesterday and the day before and the day before that, does not mean you need to accept it today! You may have set a precedent that you'll accept or at least forgive this kind of behavior, but that doesn't mean you have to keep accepting it! And I think you know it's a problem because you admitted that every time you forgive him, you feel bad about yourself for being weak.

Uptown and I have had some long discussions about a similar situation I'm facing with my wife (and that he did with his ex). He and I both feel you may be looking at BPD. I hope not, because BPD is so difficult to deal with that even a lot of counselors refuse to work with BPD clients. 

People with BPD can become violent for no apparent reason. Their way of perceiving reality is just completely different from "normal" people. Please don't ignore our warnings here...I've wasted 18 years trying to bring my wife's unreasonable tirades under control. And she's never broken anything! Others on here can tell stories about smear campaigns, false arrests, domestic violence, cheating, you name it. All because of BPD.

Please read "Stop Walking on Eggshells." I checked it out of my public library because I was afraid to leave it laying around the house very long because my wife might question why I had it. You might see a LOT of familiar stories in that book and it might open your eyes to what you're dealing with.

Please don't blame yourself if your reaction has been less than perfect. Guess what? You're human! It took me 17 years to figure out how to respond to my wife's irrational outbursts. I used to try to match her tone of voice, but that only made things worse. I tried using her own "logic" back to her a few days later to try to prove how bizarre it was. Oh my, that didn't work very well. I internalized all the bad things she said to me and tried very hard to "fix" myself and become her perfect man again. Wanna guess how well that one worked out?

The only thing that has worked (sort of) is when she starts getting wound up, I just look her in the eye and say I will not be talked to disrespectfully, that we will pick it up in a half hour, and then I go for a walk. At the very least, I'm getting more exercise! And even then, I still haven't been able to fix the core problem. I just know now how to protect myself. But ultimately, I'm probably going to be leaving. It's just that bad. 

DO NOT accept the unacceptable any longer. Just because you didn't handle things properly yesterday doesn't mean you can't start doing it today. You may have to mentally prepare yourself for the fact that there may not be a satisfactory resolution to every argument if your hubby really has BPD. Reach out to your friends and your support group and let them in on what you're facing. I hid my wife's behavior and made excuses for her for way too long, thinking that was what loyal husbands do. I wouldn't tell my friends what I was going through because I didn't want to be that guy who badmouths his wife all the time. The only thing that did was isolate me from the people who could have been giving me emotional support.

DO NOT continue to accept this. This must either be on its way to resolution, or you must get out. It's that simple. Don't waste 15 or 20 or 30 years trying to fix this if it can't be fixed. I'm serious about this. And I'm about the LAST guy on the planet who advocates for divorce. Except in cases of infidelity or abuse. And you are clearly living with abuse.

Take care. I hope this turns out well for you. Either way, there are a bunch of great people here who are pulling for you!


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## alone_not_lonely (Mar 22, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> If he's really out of control, he's not going to respond to reasonable requests to leave. It sucks, but the person who has control of their reason should be the one to disengage. Im not sure asking an angry man to do something he might not want to do is wise.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. This isn't so much about a power play as a means to diffuse the situation and stay safe.


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## alone_not_lonely (Mar 22, 2012)

sweetpotato said:


> He's still sleeping. I don't know what I'm going to say to him when he wakes up.


I may have missed this, but did you argue last night? Was a very recent fight the reason you jumped onto this forum asking for opinions?

Best not to jump him as soon as he wakes up either way. Just tell him you would like to have a serious talk with him at some point today and give yourself some time to truly plot out what you want to get across.

If you truly think he can be helped and want to work on things, I would approach the topic with him by saying you are concerned about the state of your relationship and the levels of conflict and anger displayed by each of you. Have as neutral as possible a chat about counselling for you both but be insistent that you NEED this to happen in order to stay with him. Please remember that if he continues to resist getting any help that things are not going to change and your best option will be to walk away.

Either make sure at least one of your roommates are home (give yourselves enough privacy where you can talk freely but can be walked in on if things get bad) or try going to a neutral public area with people about. Despite how calmly you do this, he is likely to get angry due to hearing things he won't want to hear (eg that you will end the relationship if you don't both get help- just mean it). You don't want to make yourself a possible sitting duck.

Now this is going to sound callous... if he threatens suicide if you leave DO NOT BUY INTO IT. Very rarely does this actually eventuate and this is a controlling measure. If he threatens so, tell him that this is another reason why you think he needs to talk to somebody. Let him know that you would rather not have to alert people for a 'suicide watch' so to speak, but that you care about him enough as a person to do so so that he will not harm himself. If you have a real concern that he might- do just that. He should not hold a choice like that over your head.

I'm sure there will be other input here, read through it, sort out what works for you, but do not take an inch if he refuses to help himself because he recognises he has a problem (you said he said this before, people who truly see problems and want to fix them take action).

Be strong, stay safe, and best of luck to you my dear.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

alone_not_lonely said:


> I may have missed this, but did you argue last night? Was a very recent fight the reason you jumped onto this forum asking for opinions?
> 
> Best not to jump him as soon as he wakes up either way. Just tell him you would like to have a serious talk with him at some point today and give yourself some time to truly plot out what you want to get across.
> 
> ...



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

GREAT ADVICE!


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

Thank you for all the replies. I'm a little overwhelmed by the responses, but I read your comments.

When he woke up, he apologized. He said "I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I blamed you, it wasn't your fault, it was mine. I was overreacting." I told him "I'm going to see a counselor." He thought I was asking him to see one, and said "No." I repeated what I said, and he didn't say anything. 

I am going to see a counselor, and get their opinion. Then, I'm going to decide what I need to do. I wish he would get help on his own, but he's against counseling for some reason. Unfortunately, I may have to insist and give an ultimatum. I just can't do that right now. 

Maybe if I start setting more boundaries, and don't forgive him as easily, then he will respond differently. Maybe seeing me go to counseling will make him more willing to go.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

sweetpotato said:


> I am going to see a counselor, and get their opinion.


Smart decision! I recommend seeing a therapist having a PhD degree, i.e., a psychologist or psychiatrist. I suggest you start with a _psychologist_ because he will have far more experience in providing actual therapy. If medication becomes necessary, he will later refer you to a psychiatrist, who has a medical degree.


> He's against counseling for some reason. Unfortunately, I may have to insist and give an ultimatum.


If your H actually has strong BPD traits and is unwilling to seek therapy on his own volition, you are taking a great risk to insist on his doing it as a condition of your remaining in the marriage. That's what I did, to my great regret. 

My exW agreed to the condition. The result is that I spent over $200,000 taking her to weekly visits with six different psychologists for 15 years -- all to no avail. If a BPDer doesn't want to work on his issues -- and very few do -- he will simply play mind games with the therapists.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Smart decision! I recommend seeing a therapist having a PhD degree, i.e., a psychologist or psychiatrist. I suggest you start with a _psychologist_ because he will have far more experience in providing actual therapy. If medication becomes necessary, he will later refer you to a psychiatrist, who has a medical degree.If your H actually has strong BPD traits and is unwilling to seek therapy on his own volition, you are taking a great risk to insist on his doing it as a condition of your remaining in the marriage. That's what I did, to my great regret.
> 
> My exW agreed to the condition. The result is that I spent over $200,000 taking her to weekly visits with six different psychologists for 15 years -- all to no avail. If a BPDer doesn't want to work on his issues -- and very few do -- he will simply play mind games with the therapists.


Okay, thanks for the suggestions.

Someone told me that if you go to a psychiatrist, it goes on your record, and could be a problem with finding a job??? Any idea of the validity of this statement?

I talked to him again last night. 

I asked him, "why don't you want to go to counseling?" He said, "I don't know." (as usual). I said, "there must be a reason." He said, "If you really want me to go, I'll go, but don't count on me opening up about everything." 

But, before I bring it up again or tell him I want him to go, I'm definitely going to consult some kind of therapist on my own. 

It's really expensive!! $200k? That's insane! That's for 15 years, but still!! My insurance won't cover it, and I'm currently working full time & going to school, which I'm paying for in full. 

But, perhaps it's worth the extra money to go to someone with better qualifications...?


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

Oh, so to make matter worse...

I was venting to my sister-in-law about what happened. Her husband is my husband's brother. And, the brothers are a LOT alike. Anyway, she made the mistake of telling her husband (my husband's older brother), who made the huge mistake of telling their mom!! 

So, my husband's mom (still married to their abusive dad) called me yesterday, asking me if it's okay if she talks to her son about what he did, because she thinks he will listen to her. She says, "please try to understand him" and that she wants to help. She says as his mother, she knows him best. She said he never showed his temper before (I think this is bull). She said he probably held it in for so long that now it's coming out. She was sobbing!


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## alone_not_lonely (Mar 22, 2012)

What a mess! Sorry to hear it.

As far as the therapist goes, more money doesn't always mean they are better at counselling, just better at ripping people off. Ask around, word of mouth is usually a better indicator than their fees.

As far as his mother goes... to me that came across as kind of manipulative. I'm sure your guess is spot on about him not being so innocent. But then again, some people are just that badly in denial.

He is blatantly refusing to do the best he can to help himself. Both him and his mother have shown very manipulative traits. Don't start on the road to a saviour complex. I'd be planning your exit strategy. That's just me though.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do Sweet.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

There's no set amount as to what therapy woll cost. Remembrr that Uptown's wife was going several times a week for several years. Nothing says you need to stick around for 15 years if this is still a problem.

Also seeing a psychiatrist doesn't go "on your record." What record? Your criminal record? Most of us don't have one. Your medical record? Well, yes, but those are kept confidential from employers under federal law. If you are a commercial pilot and get.diagnosed with some type of pathology, it could end your career, but that's sort of common sense, isn't it?

Unless you are dignosed as being criminally insane, nothing a psychiatrist does with you should ever bece a part of your public record.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

alone_not_lonely said:


> What a mess! Sorry to hear it.
> 
> As far as the therapist goes, more money doesn't always mean they are better at counselling, just better at ripping people off. Ask around, word of mouth is usually a better indicator than their fees.
> 
> ...


It's a total mess. 

Yeah, his mom was warning me about my Sister in Law, saying "you don't know her" and "She's not sincere." She told me she prefers that I come directly to her. My SIL used to go to MIL everytime SIL & BIL had a fight. Then, MIL used it against SIL. It seems like a big indicator of things to come.

Thank you so much for your advice and support.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> There's no set amount as to what therapy woll cost. Remembrr that Uptown's wife was going several times a week for several years. Nothing says you need to stick around for 15 years if this is still a problem.
> 
> Also seeing a psychiatrist doesn't go "on your record." What record? Your criminal record? Most of us don't have one. Your medical record? Well, yes, but those are kept confidential from employers under federal law. If you are a commercial pilot and get.diagnosed with some type of pathology, it could end your career, but that's sort of common sense, isn't it?
> 
> ...


It was actually MIL who told me it goes on your record.

She's worried about her son not being able to get work. 

She doesn't get why I can't go to her for "help." I told her, "we're adults now, and this is our marriage, and we need to resolve it on our own." Hopefully she doesn't hold it against me, but I won't count on it.... Just another problem for me to deal with now.

Obviously, she only cares about her son not getting into trouble, not about allowing him to experience the consequences of his actions. But, if he ever lays a hand on me, I'm calling the police. She's so protective of her sons, and doesn't want to let go. She's always telling me to "try to understand him" and "take care of him"

At times I feel like what he needs is a reality check. You can't treat your loved ones like this and expect to get away with it. 

Thanks again for your help.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

sweetpotato said:


> It's really expensive!! $200k? That's insane! That's for 15 years, but still!!...But, perhaps it's worth the extra money to go to someone with better qualifications...?


I agree with Hurt that it is unlikely to cost you that much. Therapists charge on a sliding scale, depending on your income level. My point was not that it will cost $200k but, rather, that whatever you spend will likely be a total waste -- as mine was -- if the BPDer doesn't have the self awareness and ego strength to badly want the therapy for himself. It is unusual for a BPDer to be willing to really do the work in therapy that is needed.

Another problem is your GREAT difficulty in figuring out whether he is making any real progress. Like a smoker who is always quitting every three weeks, a BPDer typically shows great improvement every few weeks -- but then quickly slides right back into the dark side when that part of the cycle returns. 

I suggest you raise this issue with Pidge, who likely knows more about the treatment process than anyone else on this forum. She is one of those rare self-aware BPDers who has had the ego strength to confront and manage her issues by sticking with several years of therapy.

I also agree with Hurt that you should take care in selecting a psychologist because, like the members of any profession, they vary greatly in skill set. I suggest getting a reference from a trusted doctor, from online reviews, or by calling the psych departments at a local university or hospital.


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## alone_not_lonely (Mar 22, 2012)

Uptown said:


> I agree with Hurt that it is unlikely to cost you that much. Therapists charge on a sliding scale, depending on your income level. My point was not that it will cost $200k but, rather, that whatever you spend will likely be a total waste -- as mine was -- if the BPDer doesn't have the self awareness and ego strength to badly want the therapy for himself. It is unusual for a BPDer to be willing to really do the work in therapy that is needed.
> 
> Another problem is your GREAT difficulty in figuring out whether he is making any real progress. Like a smoker who is always quitting every three weeks, a BPDer typically shows great improvement every few weeks -- but then quickly slides right back into the dark side when that part of the cycle returns.
> 
> ...


So are you suggesting the man has BPD, Uptown? 

I agree with your last paragraph but do you think you may be jumping the gun a little here by saying that therapy won't do any good because he has BPD? 

I agree with the idea that therapy probably won't do any good for him (but hey, anything is worth a try if they are both prepared to do the work and no one is going to be injured- I have been known to be wrong and this is just my opinion after all), but I think it's more got to do with the fact that he sees what he is doing as fine, he has had a mother that has covered his @ss for the sake of not upsetting the applecart because of an abusive father... and he has gotten away with it. Not necessarily because he has BPD.

Did you mean to make it sound like that or did I just read it wrong? I ask respectfully, so don't get hackles up please, I don't wish to argue with you.  we just don't want to scare the OP by putting a couple of behaviours that could be fit into a broad spectrum of illnesses into one diagnoses, right?


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

sweetpotato said:


> It was actually MIL who told me it goes on your record.
> 
> She's worried about her son not being able to get work.
> 
> ...


It sounds like a total, lame cop-out to me. Anytime somebody uses a generic term like "on your record," I wonder if they know what the hell they're talking about. It's not as if the government or somebody keeps this long tally of anyone you've ever known and everything you've ever done, just to be pulled up by any potential employer who comes along.

The fact of the matter is, we all have a collection of "records" in our lives, some of which are easily obtained and others not so much. Our credit record. Our school records. Our medical records. Records of any property we've owned and paid taxes on. Marriage and divorce records. If we've been arrested, our criminal record. The state BMV has your driver's license record. But when you say something like "visiting a psychiatrist goes on your record," that just sounds like a lame excuse for avoiding getting the help you need. Which record exactly would that be? And do potential employers have access to that particular record?

It is true that certain security or safety related jobs require you to disclose if you've ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric condition. But just visiting a psychiatrist for an initial consultation isn't going to appear on any of your "records," other than the records maintained by that particular psych. And your insurance company, if you pay by insurance. But those records are confidential under federal HIPPA laws. Disclosure laws require you to disclose stuff like this if, for example, you apply to be an airline pilot. But the airline is not required - or permitted - to pull your medical records just to be sure. Rather, the onus is on the individual with the condition to be truthful in reporting his diagnosis at the time of application, usually under penalty of perjury. But companies are generally not permitted to obtain all your medical records as a screening tool for employment.

Sounds like a lame excuse your MIL is making to avoid her son actually taking responsibility for his actions. Him going to her for "help" would be worse than a waste of time.

You're on the right track here. Trust your instincts. There is something very wrong here. I don't know if it's BPD or not, but whatever it is will not get fixed until and unless your husband decides it's a problem that he needs to deal with.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

alone_not_lonely said:


> So are you suggesting the man has BPD, Uptown?]


No, "having BPD" would imply his dysfunctional behaviors satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD -- a determination that only a professional can make. Moreover, for the purposes of deciding to remain married to this man, it really should not matter much to Sweetpotato whether or not his BPD traits satisfy that diagnostic threshold. 

Even if they do -- with him being diagnosed as "having BPD" -- there is very little chance she would ever hear about it. As I've explained in other threads, there are several reasons why therapists are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer -- much less tell his wife -- the actual name of his disorder. Instead, he likely will be told only about the related side effects, e.g., depresson or anxiety.

More important, even when a man's BPD traits fall well short of that threshold, they can be strong enough to make the wife's life miserable and destroy the marriage. That is, a man satisfying only 65% or 80% of the diagnostic threshold -- who therefore is diagnosed as "NOT having BPD" -- can be nearly as difficult to live with as a man meeting 100% of the criteria. 

Hence, a diagnosis of "no BPD" does NOT mean the person is safe to marry -- or remain married to. This perverse outcome is the result of the APA capitulating to the insurance industry in 1980 and adopting a dichotomous method for diagnosing all personality disorders. Insurance companies were insisting on a bright line. Never mind that it is ludicrous to take a "yes or no" approach to diagnosing _spectrum _disorders. 

Doing so is the equivalent of declaring everyone under 6'4" to be "short" and everyone under 300 pounds to be "skinny." Not surprisingly, this nonsense -- of "having" or "not having" BPD -- has been an embarassment to the psychiatric profession for over 30 years. The APA therefore is finally gutting its diagnostic procedures, replacing the dichotomous approach (DSM-IV) with a graduated methodology (DSM5, to be released next year).

As I noted in post #25 above, Sweetpotato has identified several behaviors that the DSM-IV lists as BPD traits. While this certainly does not imply her H "has BPD," it is a concern. I therefore believe it would prudent for her to read about such traits so she is able to spot any and all red flags that are present. This is why I suggested she do further reading and seek a professional opinion from a clinical psychologist.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

Uptown said:


> I agree with Hurt that it is unlikely to cost you that much. Therapists charge on a sliding scale, depending on your income level. My point was not that it will cost $200k but, rather, that whatever you spend will likely be a total waste -- as mine was -- if the BPDer doesn't have the self awareness and ego strength to badly want the therapy for himself. It is unusual for a BPDer to be willing to really do the work in therapy that is needed.
> 
> Another problem is your GREAT difficulty in figuring out whether he is making any real progress. Like a smoker who is always quitting every three weeks, a BPDer typically shows great improvement every few weeks -- but then quickly slides right back into the dark side when that part of the cycle returns.
> 
> ...


Ah, I see what you meant. I really hope he doesn't have BPD, because if he does, there's not much hope for our relationship. My dad was with my bipolar step mom for 15 years, only for her to leave him! So, I have an idea of the prospects of a relationship with a person suffering some mental disorder. 

I will see if I can contact Pidge. Thank you.

Yeah, I'm totally clueless about choosing a psychologist, but I'm pretty good about finding doctor reviews and such. I need to start looking. I've been putting it off... work has been crazy, and it's almost the end of the semester.


Thank you so much.


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## sweetpotato (Apr 15, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> It sounds like a total, lame cop-out to me. Anytime somebody uses a generic term like "on your record," I wonder if they know what the hell they're talking about. It's not as if the government or somebody keeps this long tally of anyone you've ever known and everything you've ever done, just to be pulled up by any potential employer who comes along.
> 
> The fact of the matter is, we all have a collection of "records" in our lives, some of which are easily obtained and others not so much. Our credit record. Our school records. Our medical records. Records of any property we've owned and paid taxes on. Marriage and divorce records. If we've been arrested, our criminal record. The state BMV has your driver's license record. But when you say something like "visiting a psychiatrist goes on your record," that just sounds like a lame excuse for avoiding getting the help you need. Which record exactly would that be? And do potential employers have access to that particular record?
> 
> ...


Thanks for elaborating. I agree!


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Hence, a diagnosis of "no BPD" does NOT mean the person is safe to marry -- or remain married to. This perverse outcome is the result of the APA capitulating to the insurance industry in 1980 and adopting a dichotomous method for diagnosing all personality disorders.


A lot of doctors will describe a person as having "features" of a disorder. Many disorders overlap, so it's best not to put hard labels on a person. It's just used as a general guideline to figure out what a proper treatment could be. 




> I agree with your last paragraph but do you think you may be jumping the gun a little here by saying that therapy won't do any good because he has BPD?


BPD is one of those illnesses where it's a total write off. It's in the same ballpark as schizophrenia. At one time, it was considered to be _a form_ of a schizophrenia since it has a lot of the same features. A schizophrenic person is absolutely convinced that you're an alien creature out to get them. Similarly, a BPD person is absolutely convinced that you cheated on them even though they were in the room the entire time and you never left their side. ABSOLUTELY INSANE. You can't cure that kind of insanity. The best we can do is give it hard drugs and hope it doesn't kill people.


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