# I'm About to Break



## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Hello again, everyone. I've posted before and gotten some sound advice. Looks like it's needed again.

I am in what I consider to be a sexless marriage. It's been this way for 5-10 years. In the beginning, when my H's desire started waning, I tried everything. Lingerie, initiating, showering together, trips away, strip clubs, porn, toys, everything imaginable. Read anything I could get my hands on regarding pleasing your husband. Upped my game 10 fold, lost a lot of weight and started taking good care of myself. I became a hot mama and hit my sexual peak at the same time.

Nothing worked. I could sometimes get him aroused enough to perform and it would be good but those times became fewer and fewer. He always enjoyed it the best when porn was somehow involved which was fine with me. 

He always had an excuse: I'm old, I'm tired from work, I got a buzz and fell asleep. When this started, he was about 30 years old. I pacified myself with masturbation aided by porn occasionally. Dying a little bit on the inside every day.

We would have sex and I wouldn't finish. He would promise "next time". Those next times got further and further apart. I would give him BJs, HJs, quickies, anything to try and drive his libido up. All that did was leave me hanging for much longer periods of time. More promises unfulfilled.

In my reading, I discovered low T might be a contributor. Begged him for years to get it checked. He never did. Through these years I became extremely depressed. I felt (still do) ugly, hideous, undesirable, disgusting, unwanted, etc., etc., etc....

Any attempts at conversation ended extremely ugly. We separated this past summer for a couple of months. I returned under the condition we would talk and work through our problems. Came home and we have had a couple of good, healthy conversations but many more ugly ones. These are some of the things he has admitted in the 4 months I've been back:

-He dreads having sex with me because it takes so long for me to O and it still isn't a guarantee that I will.
- He feels like everything has to be perfect for it to work for me and he feels like he has to perform oral on me every time.
-He is afraid of having sex with me because of my reactions/behaviors afterwards.
-When separated this summer, he masturbated every day using visual stimulation. 
-He has too much pressure on him because I put all of our sex life on his back.

Since I've returned we have only had sex a few times. I've given him several BJs and a couple of HJs. Last HJ was Christmas Eve. We hadn't had sex in almost 2 weeks and I wanted to relieve his stress and help him have a good, relaxed day. Asked him to get in the shower with me. Took a while to get him completely aroused. He let me know when he was close and I finished him off. He thanked me and said I could get in the shower with him every morning to do that. 

A couple of hours later, right at the time to go to my family's gathering, he said he would perform oral on me. We had to leave right then so as to not be late. He is the master at being willing to reciprocate when we absolutely cannot. Guess that enables him to say, "I offered!". Anyway, in the car he told me to think about what I did in the shower and when we got home that afternoon we'd have some play time. Yay!

During the gathering, our grown children informed us they would be leaving for a few hours that evening, meaning we'd have the house alone. Yay again! 

Nope. We came home and napped. That evening, the kids got ready to go, one of them said, "You coming, dad?" and he got up and left with them. Almost ran out. Didn't return until almost midnight. So I spent all day being hopeful, excited and slightly aroused. 

This example has been the last several years for me. He has desire, but not for me. He still hasn't made one effort to be intimate with me since the shower HJ and our last sex encounter was almost 3 weeks ago. His idea of initiating is flashing me. 

All of this has caused serious problems in our marriage and to my psyche. I do not know if our relationship can recover and I certainly don't know what to do anymore. Almost 25 years of marriage down the drain. I spent years pushing and trying. Now I've given up. 

Something is wrong and I cannot get answers from him. I can be sweet, nice, caring, adoring, respectful, beautiful and happy every day but it does no good. I can be the complete opposite of that and it does no good. I cannot settle for duty sex when he finally feels the need for release. 

I'm about to break. I teeter between leaving or asking for an open marriage. He knows how I feel. It has been said out loud a million different times and ways. Nothing changes. When I bring it up, he tells me to bring it on. He claims that he loves having sex and would love to do it every day. His actions don't match his words though.

Why has my husband lost "it" for me and how can I get it back? Should I even try after all these years? 

Thanks in advance for any insight or assistance you can offer.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Sorry to see you here. I hate to say it, but I think you may be on the cusp of cheating on your husband if the opportunity presents itself. Not saying you will, but no doubt your resolve is weakened. That's OK to feel that way because you are only human.

First things first though. Have you told your husband how you feel?


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

And tell him to come on this forum and share his side of the story.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

I've opened my heart And my mouth and laid everything on the table. He knows I am about to break.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

He won't even tell me his side of the story except To yell and scream and Blame. This is all my fault according to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

WaitForIt... said:


> He won't even tell me his side of the story except To yell and scream and Blame. This is all my fault according to him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell him to come on this forum, read your thread, and then tell his side of the story.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Face it, he won't change and doesn't want to change, but is trying to keep you from leaving (at least for now, and probably for completely selfish reasons). As you say, you have two choices: ask for an open marriage, or divorce him. The first may work for a while, but may not be enough, or you may develop feelings and lose any desire to continue the marriage. That's a risk you'll both face if you go that route and your husband makes no effort to change, but I would consider it an acceptable risk, and maybe a benefit.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My SO was married to a man like your husband, without the screaming and anger. He just ignored her sexual needs. She tried the things you've done, the talking to try to get communication going, seducing him, etc. Eventually, she had an affair and ended up leaving the marriage. She never did find his "on" switch.

Sorry to hear you're in the situation you're in. It was horribly painful for her. But I think you made a mistake by not standing your ground on the last separation. By reconciling without resolving the issues, you've taught him that you're not serious about your complaints. If you do separate again, you can't get back together again on promises of improvement. Only on a demonstrated history of improvement. Date him for awhile (like months) and let him show you that he's changed.

And finally, a one-sided open marriage is just a sham. You're just roommates at that point. Be realistic about what you're conceding to. Just my $0.02...

C


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

It is difficult for me to get any since of what is going on. He says he loves sex but not if it takes too long and uses porn daily.

Most of the time people will be defensive when confronted with a problem so you should try to keep that in perspective. Be the adult and do not let that interfere with the discussion. 

"-He dreads having sex with me because it takes so long for me to O and it still isn't a guarantee that I will....etc."

What was the answer to this? 
Is it possible that he is avoiding sex because of performance anxiety?


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Sorry you are going through this. Sounds so much like so many other stories on here just with role reversal....usually its the man asking for more.

JMHO but he is just either not into you anymore, has something happening on the side, or his T is way off and he has no drive.

So many of us on here would kill for our wives to seduce us.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Cyclist said:


> Sorry you are going through this. Sounds so much like so many other stories on here just with role reversal....usually its the man asking for more.
> 
> JMHO but he is just either not into you anymore, has something happening on the side, or his T is way off and he has no drive.
> 
> *So many of us on here would kill for our wives to seduce us*.


Yep, agree with this. There are a lot of men on here that would kill for this (although there are certainly enough women that have the same issues with their husbands). I would kill to have my wife come into the shower with me or put on her nighty and climb on top of me. Alas, I have a better chance of winning the $1B powerball and flying to Mars happening on the same day as having the wife do this.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/113754-tales-walk-away-come-back-again-wife-3.html

More info on her situation if anyone is interested. It puts this thread into better context.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

WaitForIt... said:


> He won't even tell me his side of the story except To yell and scream and Blame. This is all my fault according to him



Sounds familiar 

Does he have a peer group where men - boys when they're by themselves - talk about things? Preferably in a "manly" setting like camping or fishing... I know, stereotyping 

What does he do in his free time?


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Here's some answers to the questions you all have asked:

usmarriedguy: 
It is difficult for me to get any since of what is going on. He says he loves sex but not if it takes too long and uses porn daily.

_He claims he loves sex and would have it every day. He does not use porn daily. He hides his use now, however. _

Most of the time people will be defensive when confronted with a problem so you should try to keep that in perspective. Be the adult and do not let that interfere with the discussion. 

_Unfortunately, I'm the adult in every discussion we have concerning this. Actually, they aren't even discussions. I speak my piece, voice my concerns and feelings. He stonewalls and doesn't speak a word until he loses his cool and blows up. Lots of hurtful things are said by him then._

"-He dreads having sex with me because it takes so long for me to O and it still isn't a guarantee that I will....etc."

What was the answer to this? 

_Unfortunately, as I'm getting older, I am not as quickly aroused as I used to be. It requires some warming up. A typical session for us goes like this:
Weekend morning after coffee and showers. He will flash me and say he's interested. Oral on me to completion (around 20 minutes, it's difficult from a cold start) and then PIV for a few minutes until he is done. _

Is it possible that he is avoiding sex because of performance anxiety? 

_Yes, performance anxiety is possible. Can't get answers regarding this either_


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

He does have a peer group. A couple of them actually. He regularly spends whole weekends hunting with a bunch of guys at a hunting camp and he also goes to another club once a week. Watches football at home and at buddies' houses. He has outlets and interests that don't involve me but are highly encouraged by me. 

He has not had any type of blood work done. Refuses it and marriage counseling. Says he does not have a problem. It's all my problem and all in my head. Considering he masturbated every day during our separation, low T isn't the issue. He has desire.

This morning I reminded him of his comment about me giving him a HJ in the shower every morning. Told him I wouldn't mind doing that but what about me? He opened the shower door and told me to get in. It was exactly 8 minutes before he had to leave for work. 8 minutes. So, nothing happened. Like I said before, he is the master at "initiating" when it is impossible to follow through. 

He called this afternoon and apologized for not doing anything last night. Said he wanted to and tried but had no idea what to do and couldn't make himself do anything.

He really said that. Why can't my husband even make himself come on to me? We used to have such a wonderful, beautiful time together. Now... My husband avoids any type of intimacy, especially the sexual kind. 

He claims he doesn't masturbate now. He claims he doesn't look at porn even though I found proof a few times on his phone. Haven't checked again since that fiasco. No need to add injury to insult.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Also, he is 41. 

I haven't let myself go. I am an attractive, intelligent, capable lady that just so happens to also be extremely sexual. And now extremely depressed. To me, having that beautiful part of a loving, trusting relationship is what makes life worth living. It makes everything ok. Grass is greener, puppies are cuter, etc., etc.

Not having it is like being in a slow traveling tornado. Everything is always just out of my reach, being taken by the wind.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

He isn't going to change because he has no reason to. Unless you are willing to leave him, this cruelty will never end.


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

She left him once and same old story. It changed for a while and goes right back to where it was because he is comfortable with it and does not want to make a change. She is not his priority. For some reason he has in his head this is acceptable behavior and you can just live with it.

So you have a decision to make. Live the way things are....and they could change here and there eventually...maybe.....or pack up and move on. Is sex so important to you that you can not live without it? Only you can answer that.

I feel your pain. In a similar situation and I am trying to reason if I throw away what seems to be a good relationship because our sexual appetites are different. It's a tough choice that in reality nobody should have to make.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

It sounds like you have done everything you can and then some to try an turn this situation around. It doesn't sound like leaving him has resulted in change on his part.

Your desire to understand how he came to be this way is normal - no doubt you are still seeking a solution. If you can understand why you can find an anecdote. 

But the truth is - you have tried everything you can. He continues to place all the blame on you. Not that you sound abnormal - but still, how can he expect you to bubble over with passion for a man who has slowly killed a part of you over the years? How can you get excited when he goes back on his word so often? 

Why does he act this way - it doesn't matter why he does it. He does it. He's has every opportunity to be considerate and to work with you on this. It's just not important to him. His mouth says he wants to have sex daily but he cant back that up with action.

He deserves to lose you at this point - in my opinion.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

Start planning your exit strategy. He refuses to get tested, will probably refuse to get MC. If you can't stand this - and, from the tone of your messages, it doesn't sound like you can - then you need to separate, and not reconcile until he gets tested, agrees to go to counseling, and stops watching porn. You are right, the blameshifting/refusal to accept responsibility is a huge part of the problem and very immature of him for a 41 year old man...


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Oral for 20 minutes is not exactly a big time commitment in my opinion. 

Sorry, I did not mean that he is using porn daily now (only when you where separated) but that still implies a pretty high sex drive.

Just seems like it would be a solvable problem but it is hard to figure out why people act like they do. 

seems like if the oral was for some reason difficult for him he could start with his fingers or a vibe until you are closer.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

We've been home alone since Friday afternoon. He has attempted nothing except to wave a Chubby right in front of me. That's his method of initiation. I did not take the bait and will not. It's been 5 days since his hand job and I have still received nothing. 

So, the general consensus here is that I leave? He won't change? I find that impossible to believe. We used to have a fantastic and hot sex life. What happened that took that away from us? Do you all really think that this is the end of sex and my marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Please. I I am literally withering away and dying on the inside from the lack of this connection with my husband. I desperately need to be touched, manhandled, loved and penetrated. Masturbation makes me cry afterwards now. My self esteem is shot, confidence has never been lower, outlook on everything is bad and my hope has turned to severe anger. Now I have to face the possibility that my marriage is over? No Way. Dammit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Why does he act this way - it doesn't matter why he does it. He does it. He's has every opportunity to be considerate and to work with you on this. It's just not important to him. His mouth says he wants to have sex daily but he cant back that up with action.
> 
> He deserves to lose you at this point - in my opinion.


I had to quote this. I spent so much time trying to figure out WHY my H did what he did. Really, I was looking for a cause, and a reason to believe that we could find it and fix it. It's a false hope, and it kept me spinning my wheels for far too long. Is there a why? Sure. But even if it's one that physically prevents him from performing (like, ED), it's on him to try everything. It's on him to care enough to figure out what's going on and seek out every solution he can.

You're young still. My friend was in a marriage like this, and she tried and tried and tried. Guess what, he cheated and left her. Now she's head over heels in love with a man who loves her back the way she deserves. I've never seen her so happy. 

Leave.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Seriously think about getting out, don't waste your life. He is possibly an emotionally crippled man that will not change. What is his parents marriage like? Are they in a marriage of convenience?


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

I told him again this morning that I could not continue this Way. Poured my heart out through tears. Got no response. Not one single word. He left the room to take a shower. Wow. 

I feel important and validated now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

WaitForIt... said:


> I told him again this morning that I could not continue this Way. Poured my heart out through tears. Got no response. Not one single word. He left the room to take a shower. Wow.
> 
> I feel important and validated now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm so sorry. It's a betrayal of his vows, as bad as cheating. That's how it feels to me anyway, when the man you vowed to love, honor, and cherish you turns his back on you when you need him. It's intentional cruelty, and "I wasn't considering how you might feel" isn't an excuse.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Our He has showered and dressed and is now sitting in the bathroom. Probably masturbating to porn. That was evil of me to say. Who knows if it is the truth or not? I can tell you from past experience that he has a tendency to lash out in a very passive aggressive waY, especially regarding matters of a sexual nature. An Example: 

Upon reconciliation approximately two years ago, we set boundaries in our relationship. No texting and calling, ecT., members of the opposite sex unless related, no going to bars, clubs or any place like that without the other, no porn use or things of a sexual nature without the other. I did not falter from the guidelines. Christmas Eve last year we all got a nasty stomach virus. My H was still in bed and I went to check on him. he was asleep. I straightened the room a little and noticed his phone was almost dead, it was beeping. Took it into the living room to charge. A couple of hours later my phone died so I traded his charged phone for mine. Opened the internet and found his porn searches from the day before. Our sexual problems were in full swing by then it had been weeks since we had been intimate. I confronted him the next day about going back on our agreement. ended up being my fault because I snooped and he wanted to see some titties.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

He has told me that he wants to desperately but he is so afraid it makes him incapable of doing anything. He asked me to please be patient and help him through it. How do I do that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Be patient with what? 
It seems like he has not even said what the problem is.
I do not think that it is reasonable for him to think you should be patiently waiting for an answer to a simple question. 

Seems like he is either addicted to porn or (I don't know) I can't understand how married sex can go from "a fantastic and hot sex life" to serious problems. 

Maybe he is feeling emasculated. I don't know but it seems like this has been going on for a long time and you maybe need to set some limits.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

WaitForIt... said:


> He has told me that he wants to desperately but he is so afraid it makes him incapable of doing anything. He asked me to please be patient and help him through it. How do I do that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Once again - he places the burden on you.

Be patient and help him through this - have you not been doing that for years already?

Where is his responsibility in this? It doesn't seem that difficult to me - just make a fricking effort to not be such an asshat. Try a little bit every day to not be such an ass to the woman who has endured years of your torment.

It seems to me he doesn't want to have to do jack - just continue to manipulate you into thinking it's all within your power if only you can only take more and more of the same.

He's not paralyzed from the waist down trying to learn how to walk. He's not recovering from traumatic brain injury. These things test the patients of the caregivers. This guy is just being an ass. And he knows it! (In my opinion.)


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

So, yesterday afternoon he suggested we take a naked nap. Figured I'd see what happened but was extremely nervous and having performance anxiety. Decided to not worry about my O, just enjoy the experience.

It was awkward. Foreplay consisted of a little touching (nothing below the waist for me, realized he doesn't do that) and a little kissing. He penetrated soon, I wasn't ready but couldn't make myself say it. After a few minutes of that, he performed oral until I finished. It was difficult and I could tell that he was just ready for it to be over. Then him on top until he was finished. So it worked for both of us but was merely a biological function. There was no love involved. 

I've realized he does have severe performance anxiety, as do I. Need to find a way to show him that I need more foreplay. I've told him but he doesn't seem to get it. Oral on me is the old stand-by. What I'm having trouble understanding is it is possible for me to finish in other ways, he just doesn't try them. 

He's never been one to use his hands on me alone. Only during oral. Maybe he's worried about them being rough? Maybe he doesn't like the way I feel down there? Maybe all of these years have made me question and doubt every little thing about myself?

I wonder if he doesn't enjoy sex with me because he's had better. I wonder if he is just bored. I wonder if he isn't attracted to my body. He likes tight, toned, slim women. I'm curvy, petite, small waisted but with a booty and boobs. I wonder if he has to go to his happy place during sex to finish. The last several times have been him finishing on top, eyes closed. Ouch.

Sorry about my ramblings. I'll close now.

Diagnosis: He and I are both suffering from damaged self esteem and performance anxiety. We have hurt each other horribly in our past. We love each other and want to make our marriage work, grow old together and enjoy our future grandchildren. But we've got to get past all the old resentments and behaviors. 

What can I do to get this ball rolling? What exactly can I do? This is my last ditch effort. If there is not significant, lasting changes in our relationship in 90 days... I will escape.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

If he does not know how to do foreplay I do not see any possible way that sex could have ever been "fantastic and hot" 

I guess in the early years you where horny enough or the experience was new enough that foreplay did not matter?

It seems like he is pretty clueless about women. Maybe women would occasionally be turned on by a flash or at least amused by it but generally that is not something a guy would normally do to initiate sex. And I simply can't fathom PiV with no foreplay. 

Maybe you are not giving him enough coaching. If he is taking his lessons from porn he is in serious trouble.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

WaitForIt... said:


> I wonder if he doesn't enjoy sex with me because he's had better. I wonder if he is just bored. I wonder if he isn't attracted to my body. He likes tight, toned, slim women. I'm curvy, petite, small waisted but with a booty and boobs. I wonder if he has to go to his happy place during sex to finish. The last several times have been him finishing on top, eyes closed. Ouch.


He uses porn, and enjoys sex, just not with you. What kind of porn exactly? I'm going to suggest several other possibilities that you may not have considered.


His sexuality has changed and he's now more attracted to men than women. This has happened to people. You said he regularly spends a lot of time at a "hunting camp" with his friends and over at their houses watching football. Are you sure that's really all they are doing?

He might have a strong fetish that he isn't sharing with you because he's embarrassed to. For example, maybe he gets off on the idea of being dominated or spanked by a woman, and is ashamed to tell you about it.

You mentioned you have children. Maybe he still sees you as a "mother" and so he's as little attracted to you sexually as he would be to his own mother. It sounds like you have tried everything possible to prevent this from happening, however.

Look, have you tried forgetting about sex and just going back to the basics? Sometimes my wife and I spend hours just kissing and making out. Back up a few steps from sex and start from there; pretend you are teenagers again. 

I can understand his reluctance to have his T levels checked, because frankly, that's become an overused fad nowadays and anyone and everyone who wants T supplements can get them. *However*, his refusal to go to couple's therapy for this problem would be the dealbreaker for me. i would be on my way out. Just my 2 cents.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Until my self esteem took a nose dive and depression set in, I was definitely HD. Probably Insane Drive. It didn't take much to get me ready and I was almost always semi-aroused. He always made sure I finished orally or by touching myself during PIV. It worked and we had some great times. 

We used to discuss fantasies, watch porn together, all of it. He used to initiate by sexting or touching. He's been very funny about the sexting now for a couple of years. Said it's not right to arouse ourselves at work and it's a trigger for him. Even though I've never sexted anyone but him. 

Maybe he does need coaching. 

As for the porn, I'm not certain what his favorites are. We used to watch standard couples or threesomes. The porn I last found on his phone was mainly photos of nudes and a few videos of wet t-shirt and bikini contests. I've never seen anything out of the ordinary but haven't checked in months. For the record, I see nothing wrong with porn if it is used to enhance a relationship. If someone is unsatisfied it needs to be put away until things are stable. 

His sexuality hasn't changed. He definitely loves women. When he's away from home, he is almost always with his best friend of 30 years and son. I don't believe he has those tendencies. The past few times he has been at hunting camp I haven't heard from him for long stretches. Sometimes from late afternoon until mid-morning the next day. That tends to make me worry because there are full service Asian Massage Parlors a short drive away. He has been to one before but states it was humiliating and he'd never do it again. Surely he wouldn't be doing that considering he has no way to bathe while at camp? Paranoia eats me alive again!

He may have a strong fetish that he is ashamed to divulge. How can I get it out of him if that's the case? I'm willing and open minded. Won't judge. 

He may have a Madonna/Wh8re complex... How can I remedy that?

Anyway, I've thought about this all morning. Devised a plan. 90 days to see if he comes around, makes an effort, shows an interest.

- Stop masturbating. Completely. Stopped porn a long time ago. Now, the solo. Maybe his complaint about my O being difficult is true because I've trained myself to only myself? Make sense? Plus, I've read countless times on here that the sensations and experience is multiplied during couple sex. It stops today.

- I will make myself as pretty as possible for when he comes home. I will also kiss, hug and praise him regularly. He loves to be touched so that will happen more as well.

- I will temper myself when disappointed but still speak my heart. 

- I will encourage him by flirting, suggesting, putting his hands on me and vice-versa. Daily.

- I will verbally tell him what I'd like him to do. This will be difficult. 

- I suggested this morning that we experiment with different ways to practice and learn about each other by doing this:
Monday is make out/manual. Tuesday is tongue. Wednesday is whatever, etc., etc. Try to make it fun again. 

I asked him to please help me figure out different things to do each day. He said ok. We'll see. Last time I suggested something like this (Oct. 2012) it was dead in the water. 

I also sent him a couple of chest shots by text which resulted in some mild sexting. This will happen more. If he wants to see a naked woman on his phone, he's got it.

If he doesn't jump on this bandwagon enthusiastically then I'm gone. 90 days. I've carried this marriage long enough alone.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

"I've trained myself to only myself?"

Yes I can definitely tell the difference, the last month or so my wife's interest has picked up a bit (while I am slowing down as I age) so I have been self servicing much less and I can definitely tell a difference in my enthusiasm for the real thing. I do think that our bodies use cue's to help us get in to it whether they are visual or mental.

Sounds like a good plan.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

What I meant by that was I have become conditioned to my own hand and stimulation. Maybe it takes me longer to finish with someone else because I am use to my own pressure and method.

Nothing happened last night. He never mentioned anything about Our discussions or the little game I had suggested. Opened a bottle of wine and he kept refilling my glass unbeknownst to me until the bottle was gone and we were too tipsy to do anything but sleep. Avoidance Tactic? 

Regardless, I will continue with my plan. I will continue to post here. Maybe journaling all this stuff will help me finally see his patterns of manipulation and emotional abuse. Maybe I will stumble across an answer and be able to help someone else. Maybe someone will read this and see the mistakes I've made and be able to avoid them. Sigh, so many maybEs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

"... in every single instance he was never at fault. It was always someone else's fault or mine." [from a post of yours in Aug 2013]


This says it all and nothing has changed. You're married to a 41yo teenager; a self-indulgent cheater who refuses to take responsibility for ANYTHING! 

Perhaps he resents you (that would be nervy!) for 'having' to marry so young and being cheated out of his youth? Choices have consequences and he still won't accept that as a fact! Nothing short of a sincere effort at MC is going to change this marriage. But, again, YOU'RE the ONLY ONE making all the effort, not him.

Ninety days from now, you'll still be wondering, questioning, feeling guilty, unsure, desperate for acceptance, etc. 

My opinion? Leave his azz NEXT WEEK (it's a new year; you've wasted enough years on a man who doesn't value you, who's cheated repeatedly just to feed his own ego). 

Move on with your life while you're still young enough to enjoy it. Get into IC to repair your damaged self-esteem, and enjoy what's left of your life. You've served plenty of time with an immature cheater. Find a MAN who can be a loving and equal PARTNER for you.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I think here is a difference in attitudes about sex. If your husband could last a really long time - if it took him 45 min of PIV, for instance, you would likely think - woo hoo - 45 min of sex! It likely wouldn't lead you to complain or excuse yourself from sex unless you honestly didn't have 45 min to spare right then.

Then there are the people who think 20 min, even 10 min is too long and too much trouble to get their spouse off. I've seen this complaint several times on this board, given by men and women alike - but all from th lower drive spouse.

Again, it is an excuse - it is a way to put the blame again on the higher drive spouse. If only I wasn't such an inconvenience we would be having more sex. That is the bottom line.

You aren't alone in this - I don't want you to feel like you are. A few weeks back I was really needing sex and told my H that. He said h could take care of that next Friday (when our children would be gone.) - that was 8 days away at the time! This and a few similar comment has led to a quick deterioration in our relationship.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

WaitForIt... said:


> Here's some answers to the questions you all have asked:
> 
> usmarriedguy:
> It is difficult for me to get any since of what is going on. He says he loves sex but not if it takes too long and uses porn daily.
> ...


It's the porn


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> "... in every single instance he was never at fault. It was always someone else's fault or mine." [from a post of yours in Aug 2013]
> 
> 
> This says it all and nothing has changed. You're married to a 41yo teenager; a self-indulgent cheater who refuses to take responsibility for ANYTHING!
> ...


You're a long time dead and life is too short


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

WaitForIt... said:


> He has told me that he wants to desperately but he is so afraid it makes him incapable of doing anything. He asked me to please be patient and help him through it. How do I do that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He is throwing this on you to fix. But I think you need him to take the first step. Based on your further posts, I think that a sex therapist would be helpful to both of you. So, tell him that he needs to make an appointment with one by the end of the week. If he balks (and he will), tell him you are sorry to hear that and you will go see a lawyer this week to start the divorce. At that point, if he starts promising to do it, you have to decide what *you *want. If you want to give him a chance, give him a couple of days to tell you when the appointment is scheduled. If he has not in a couple of days, just go to the lawyer. 

Regardless, you need to be dead serious about leaving him. He clearly won't change until that point (and he may not even then).


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> "... in every single instance he was never at fault. It was always someone else's fault or mine." [from a post of yours in Aug 2013]
> 
> 
> This says it all and nothing has changed. You're married to a 41yo teenager; a self-indulgent cheater who refuses to take responsibility for ANYTHING!
> ...


I have to agree. What I've gleaned from what you've written is this: your husband does not want to put any effort into your relationship. He resents the fact that he is expected to have any responsibility toward your feelings or pleasure.

He withholds sex, gaslights and refuses to accept blame for anything. Classic passive-aggressive behavior patterns- very unlikely to ever change. 

Here you are making an exhaustive, desperate list of everything you're going to do to try and squeeze some semblance of interest out of him. But I don't see you getting different results by trying harder. 

Is this guy really so amazing that you need to die a martyr to this relationship? If I were in your situation I'd give up the dream and move on.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry to hear you are going through this. As a man and your hubby, he should of taken care of business years ago. I feel for you.

Most guys, myself included, would love to have a wife like you.:smthumbup:


Either he is secretly seeing someone?

Secretly addicted to porn?

Low test levels but since 30 years old? Not likely. Probably porn or someone on the side.


He doesn't want to see a doctor about his test levels? Very odd.


I have a personal question if you don't mind. Did one of you have an affair?



"He withholds sex, gaslights and refuses to accept blame for anything. Classic passive-aggressive behavior patterns- very unlikely to ever change."

This reminds me of another poster and their spouse was having an affair, and that spouse caught them. This caught spouse still doesn't go out of their way to please the other half and hasn't changed that much after the affair. Gets that spouse worked up and then nothing, etc. while the cheated on spouse still tries everything imaginable.


Him being gay is a possibility because you have done everything imaginable.


He might just be a low sex drive LD guy and you are the high sex drive HD one. Sexual mismatch.


What do you think made him have performance issues? Making him anxious in the first place?:scratchhead:


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

Why Does The Passive Aggressive Man Withhold Sex?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Very informative, thx.

But it could also be he is having an affair or gay or something she did way back he's never forgotten about.

He needs to communicate what his problem is, or a least write it down on paper.:scratchhead:

Only a few times did I withhold sex from my wifee and that was because I gave up due to her low sex drive. Once a month or less, so I didn't want it anymore.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I've also wondered if he has (or fears he has) STDs from his many dalliances outside of their marriage! That would explain to me why he doesn't want to see a doctor and have bloodwork done!


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I've also wondered if he has (or fears he has) STDs from his many dalliances outside of their marriage! That would explain to me why he doesn't want to see a doctor and have bloodwork done!



That's what I'm thinking at this point too but I hope its not!!!


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

I've read through this thread - your husband sounds very selfish, not just in the bedroom but in other areas too.

It also appears that he is placing the burden on your shoulders to somehow fix things. Do you see yourself as codependent? You can't fix him.

If you aren't ready for penetration and not fully aroused you need to communicate that to him. Egads! He should want to touch you intimately below the waist. He sounds lazy in the bedroom.

I'd lay off the HJ's and BJ's too.

OP I'm sorry you're going through this. If you separate again - you need to establish firmer boundaries if/when you return. I would think twice about returning the next time - it sounds like no changes were made except to go back to the status quo.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

l'll come back tomorrow and answer all the questions when he is not home. In the meantime just want to make note of some things that have happened. Maybe putting all these things in black and white will enable me to have 20/20 hindsight.

I asked him yesterday and he had any secret desires or fantasies that he is embarrassed or ashamed to tell me. His initial response was what do you mean how like a coyote? I said no and asked the question again in a different manner. He seemed nervous and cornered but I said no and then asked me if I did. I said yes a couple of things and then the conversation was promptly dropped. No mention again. 

We also had sex yesterday. No oral, a couple of different positions and we both finished. So, that's twice in two days but both times no love no passion. Mechanical. 

I asked him this morning what is the number one and then the top three things he would like for me to do. ANy topic and regarding anything. He said he would have to think about it and asked me the same thing. I told him my answers were written down months ago and he could read them whenever he liked. Conversation dropped again. 

When he got in the shower with me I asked him how he survives when we go a long time without sex. Immediate defensive mode. started getting angry. Said he hateS going without sex. I asked him how he gets through then why he doesn't do anything about it. He said because I can't and then god dammit please stop. I told him I was merely curious and hated that asking questions cause hard feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

OP he is feeling shame from something

I still say it's the porn


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Thank you all so much for all of the replies. You really are helping me in so many ways and it is appreciated. Please ask any questions you have. If I miss answering one please ask again. I'm hoping that you all will finally enable me to see the forest through the trees so I can make some type of decision and change for my happiness and peace of mind. 

Now, to answer the questions:

He is neither gay or bi. Just isn't. I've known him since he was 11. This isn't a possibility.

Don't believe he is having an affair either. My gut instinct tells me something is amiss but it is more that he "wishes" or "wants" or something along those lines than he is actively involved with someone. It would be difficult for him, too. He works, comes home and goes to hunt camp. If he does go anywhere else, I take him usually. He only has a motorcycle. 

I have been fully tested, TWICE, in the past 2+ years for STDs. All clear. He has (supposedly) been faithful to me for the last 15-ish years. Except for the full service Asian Massage Parlor after my ONS 2 years ago. 

Yes, we have both been unfaithful. His dalliances were in the beginning years of our marriage, mine was a revenge ONS 2.5 years ago. On the first page of this thread is a link to my first thread. It chronicles the first years of our marriage and has the details regarding all this chaos.

If it is porn, he's sneaky and good at hiding things! He's at work or with me almost 24/7 except for hunt camp. Maybe after I go to bed at night... not sure and will never get an honest answer out of him. If he admits to ANYTHING it is done in anger, said with malice and intended to inflict damage. 

Which brings us to this weeks' events. 

He had NYE and day off. I attempted numerous times and ways to initiate thought provoking, soul bearing conversations. All were met with serious anger.

I discovered and noticed a lot of things. 

Firstly, he is seething with anger to the point of almost hatred towards me. It's always bubbling under the surface and comes out when I ask questions or want to talk about anything regarding us. 

Yesterday, after the question in the shower showdown, we were in the kitchen. I asked him why does me asking questions result in him getting angry and defensive. Why does it always end in a fight with ugly things said. He asked why can't I just be happy and not start sh_t. Round and round it went with me going back to my question of why the anger and him asking why always the misery and fighting. He said that he answered my shower question and to let it go. 

He was extremely angry sitting in a chair. Kneading the arms, giving me daggers with his eyes, even said at one point that all he wanted to do right now was get up and run far, far away. His words came out in hisses.

I tried to take his hand. Told him to look me in the eyes. He finally did it but struggled to do so. 

I told him, looking in his eyes, heart to heart, that we needed to get through all of this hurt and anger. It's killing us. We need to be able to talk about anything. Keeping things inside until we burst is the worst because that's when the hurtful words come out. I told him that I knew he was angry with himself and me for taking me back 2 years ago. That he feels like a chump. 

I told him that I was not placing all the blame for all the wrongs between us on him alone. That it was both of us. WE screwed things up and it was going to take both of us to fix it. I told him I know I'm not perfect, I have issues and struggles and bad reactions to things. Open hearted laid it all out there, basically saying let's do whatever it takes to work this out and be in love again. 

We were once.

He told me the top things he wished I would do. Stop with the drama. He said like right now, why this? Why can't I just be happy and leave things alone? Why do I always have to look for things to pick a fight about and constantly be miserable all the time? He's happy and ok with things until I start my drama. He also said he wants me to be happy and feels like I depend on him for it. That's too much pressure.

He also said that I ruined masturbation for him and that's why he doesn't do it at all when I live with him. I said one time (10+ years ago) that it was cheating during a certain conversation/meltdown and he ran with it. Never mind we have done so in front of each other and I've told him countless times that it turns me on, yesterday included. He said I do everything in my power to make sure he can't masturbate too. ?

I said ok, if I've screwed this up for you, how can we fix it? He glared at me and said that will never happen, it will never be the same, it's ruined. I explained again how I feel about it. Natural, normal, a turn on for me and should be happening if it needs to. If used in place of intimacy of a partner constantly and purposefully it is harmful and needs to stop.

Doesn't matter, I've ruined it for him. Permanently. And asking him if he does it through the years only solidifies the fact that he is not allowed to masturbate. Goodness gracious.

Also, he said he does not like for me to ask questions because I throw the answer up in his face for the rest of his life. His recent example was a phone conversation we had about sex two weeks ago. It was getting heated. He stated that I shamed and humiliated him regarding masturbation, again, and threw his confession of masturbating during our recent separation in his face by saying I didn't want him to need porn to have sex with me. 

What?

This isn't how I remember it and I most certainly wasn't throwing anything up in his face. This is also the sort of thing I need the clarity of you all to help me see. This is what I remember happening: 
Phone conversation about sex and the lack thereof is getting heated. I ask him why he doesn't want sex. He says he does want sex, loves it, wants it daily. I asked why doesn't he do it then. He says he wants to but is tired, has a buzz, just doesn't initiate and isn't sure I want to (really??). Then he said, remember what I told you I did to get in the mood while you were gone?... I put some adult tv on and that worked. I then told him that I didn't want him to need porn to have sex with me. He hung up on me and texted that I always twist everything he says.

It hurt to see the anger and hatred in his eyes yesterday. He said all he wanted was for somebody to be nice to him and not start drama. I told him all I wanted was a best friend of the heart. 

We had to leave. The rest of the day, into the evening was superficial. Nothing else about us was discussed. He doesn't like for me to talk about heavy things so it was mainly him chattering away about the things he wants. 

So, we're back to square one. Only difference is this time I have seen the anger/hatred, I know he resents me asking questions and feels unsafe to answer them. I am not allowed to start any type of heavy discussion during the weekdays so as to not interfere with his work. It ruins his day.

I feel bullied into submission and silence to be honest with you. I feel that any time I try to voice ANY thing beyond happiness its met with anger, defensiveness and fighting. It's always me starting drama and being miserable. Just be happy and accept things the way they are. 

I told him my biggest need was deep conversation and the sharing of minds. That I'm curious and need to ask questions to get every answer possible. It helps me understand and settles my mind. It's how I work things out. I fricking apologized for being that way and told him I'd change it if I could so it wouldn't annoy him. 

Also realized that he never, never says he will do anything to save our marriage. I poured my heart out and told him I'd do whatever it takes. In hindsight, I see now that he couldn't even commit to pushing the anger down when we try to talk.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Figured I'd stick to my plan no matter what happens. I want to be able to walk away and say I did everything possible. So, called and asked him if he'd thought of anything for Thursday and Friday in our game. He hasn't. Said he'd think about it and let me know. We'll see. At least it didn't tee him off. Gave him something to think about anyway.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

You are tilting at a windmill. Your only hope to save this is to get him to counseling, pronto. Otherwise the time you waste trying to fix things, you will only regret down the road.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

He seems to be extremely insecure and a bit childish. He is kind of the male counterpoint to my wife. -She has never initiated a serious personal conversation in 15 years. 

He seems like he is very self-conscious about masturbation and porn usage and he does not seem to really care much about your well being. 

Well early on I criticized my wife's skills and it really took about 10 years for her to get pretty well past that. I adjusted myself to her and she has slowly gotten better over the years so I certainly think that with time your husband might be able to get over his issues. 

But then basically I settled for the best possible relationship with her and not an ideal sex life. I guess it will be a question of what works for you. 

Do you two watch porn together?


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

He will not even consider any type of counseling. Individual, marital, sexual. Nothing. I've asked, begged, pleaded. No. Last time I asked him to please consider it, he ignored it at first. When reminded that he never answered, he said I don't want to go. I asked for reasons. He said how would I feel about going to hunting camp every time he went? I hate going there. It's cold and I'm trapped in a freezing, creepy travel camper until he gets out of the woods. Usually early afternoon. Can't even hike because everyone is hunting. I have gone a total of 3 times with him.

I said how about a compromise then? I'll go hunting and will seriously put forth an effort towards it if you'll do the same with counseling. I'd be willing to do that if it would potentially work towards helping and rebuilding us. Would you?

He said I don't know, Wait For It...maybe.

I responded with No maybes, no I don't knows. We've both got to be all in and willing to do whatever it takes. Committed, with open hearts and open minds to saving our marriage and making it wonderful. 

No response.

Asked about marriage counseling a couple of other times since then (Dec. 18th) and gotten a flat out no. He constantly states there is nothing wrong with him. He likes himself the way he is and doesn't need to change anything. He has said these exact words. He tells me to change my attitude or change my last name and address. He doesn't want all this unnecessary drama. 

Here's something else that befuddles me:

He frequently says, "I don't want to fight. I don't want to be mean and ugly to you." He says these key phrases to justify keeping his thoughts and feelings to himself. 

I've been reading through our text messages from early Nov. to now. It's pathetic and I'm embarrassed at how I've thrown myself at his mercy, COUNTLESS TIMES, only to be shot down or ignored. Wow. Yesterday when I took his hand is the absolute last time I will grovel, beg or try to get him to understand that our marriage is sinking. If not sunk. 

What a fool I've been. Here it is, in blue and white, right in front of me. I clearly explain and spell out what I want and need from him in all of these texts. Simple, normal stuff every loving relationship should have as a foundation. Every time he either replies with I love you or I adore you or he ignores it. Says he wishes he could be a better man for me and he's tired of me hurting his feelings and coming down on him. 

90 days is too long.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

Glad you've woken up. Hey, I should talk, I stayed about 3 years longer than I should have, but I gave it the old college try and feel OK with having done so. So, should you. His unwillingness to accept blame/go to counseling/change, isn't your problem.

A wise friend told me something that was one of those "a-ha!" moments of clarity. "The only happiness that you're responsible for is your own". So, time to leave/end things, and go find happiness.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

We have watched porn together in the past and enjoyed it. Seems to me that it slowed down just before the children left home and then altogether stopped sometime a few years ago. Now it's a "sensitive subject", as he says. We've mentioned how fun it used to be and he's said he wants to do it again but...


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Why am I not leaving then? Why do I keep banging my head against this brick wall? Why do I keep thinking _someday will be the breakthrough? Why, why, why?

I married him when I was 16. Never been alone. Co-dependent. Ridiculous._


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Well, at least you can't say you didn't try...


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

Your frustration comes through - not surprisingly.

It takes two to work on problems in a marriage. He doesn't want to .... which leaves just you. He wants you to keep quiet and not discuss or bring up any issues at all. Which makes him utterly happy and you utterly miserable - and rightfully so. I can't see how this relationship will work out.

Marriage counselling will benefit BOTH of you whereas going hunting with him only benefits him. He sounds passive aggressive (see the link another poster referenced) - won't discuss any serious subjects, victim stance, blames you, bedroom intimacy lacking, selfish, childish and tantrumy.

You seem to be bending yourself into a pretzel trying to get him to talk and whatnot. Maybe you could try focusing on yourself Wait for It, and doing what's best for you. Look after yourself a little. He just doesn't seem interested in having a close and intimate relationship.

What would you say? Does he?


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

He doesn't seem to want emotional intimacy and the physical only occasionally with me when he needs to release. He has his childhood best friend that he probably talks to which leaves me nothing. It feels like he keeps me around because it's familiar, I do all the laundry housework, cooking and shopping. All he has to do is go to work. I handle everything else. Convenience and familiarity. He also hates being alone.

We discussed nothing yesterday. He also never answered my question. He doesn't touch me during the night anymore either. 

Appears my marriage is over I just have to face it. 

I will never go hunting with him until he attends marriage counseling. That is non negotiable. 

He does not like when I work. He told me recently that he feels every time I get a job or a new car that I start to feel and act better than him and always leave him. He asked me to please not look for work, to enjoy the holidays. That simply felt like a manipulation tactic to keep me here. 

So now I start looking after myself. First thing is to get a job. All of my belongings are still in storage over 2 years ago. There's only my clothes shoes and jewelry here. Guess I'll keep paying it until I get enough money saved to exit. 

I'm hurt, sad, frustrated, disappointed. Thought I could save our marriage and bring back being in love. Can't do that alone with nothing but a stack of bricks to work with. 

Most of this is my fault because through the years I allowed this behavior. Our children did not need any strife in the household so I always kept my mouth shut. Put all of my hopes, wants and dreams to the side until they were grown. Since he was the primary breadwinner I always felt as if he was more entitled to get what he wanted or needed than me. Concert we wanted to attend but we had no babysitter? He still Went. Things like that. WaitForIt has always been doing just that, waiting for it.

My children are grown now. I've fulfilled my obligation as a mother and a wife. For years I was excited about this time right now. I'm still young enough to do anything I want. I always thought my husband and I would be crazy in love and best friends.. That we would enjoy the Empty nest and still be useful to the fullest extent. I thought this would be my time to finally bloom and find out exactly who I Am. 

Can't do any of that if I cannot even speak my mind. What was supposed to be my time for discovery and our time for excitement and adventure has been squashed. He expects and wants everything to remain as it has been for 25 years. I have been a doormat. 

No More. 

Need to work on my self esteem and detaching from him. My depression as well. It's gotten bad. It's hard to admit this, but I need help. I want to be happy and secure and not wonder and worry and cry all the time. How do I face the end of my marriage and everything I've known and move forward?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

With all that you have tried I have no answer, I can say there are good people on here to vent to, good luck


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Anyone know of a book or something that will help me drag myself out of this hole? I'm just spinning my wheels and fighting panic attacks daily. I need something that will outline what steps I need to take, mentally and physically. Don't even know where to begin. 

The realization that if I stay married to him I will never have the life or relationship I need and want has crippled me. This hurts worse than his infidelities. At least he came home to me after them. For some reason, he's refusing to come "home" to me anymore now. Completely abandoned me emotionally. Awful fact.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Have you looked into the 180 thing?


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes, I executed the 180 for approximately one year. I believe it is a major cause of our problems and the inability to communicate at all now. It made him feel rejected and unwanted so he disengaged and put up even more walls. It's also probably the reason why he feels that every time I get a job I get snobby and want to leave him. 

During our 180 year, I got a wonderful job (with promotions), made friends, took care of myself and detached. I was living my own life (well, even) and co-habitating with him. I realized I would be perfectly fine without him which is the point of the 180, right?


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

But, for some reason that I don't even remember right now, I wanted to get us both to check back into the marriage. Realized it was empty. Missed him and what we had.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

he refuses counseling? I have not read all your posts, sorry


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

He staunchly refuses any type of counseling. The problem is in my head. He's a good guy. He works, comes home, doesn't hit me, isn't a pill popper or alcoholic, doesn't stay out all night partying and doesn't cheat. He likes himself. There is nothing wrong with him. He doesn't think he needs to change anything. 

These are all exact quotes of things he's said to me. 

Every problem we have lies with me, in my head. I have too much time on my hands so I sit around dreaming up issues to fight about and causing unnecessary drama because I enjoy it.

More exact quotes.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Have you talked to a counselor, or family?


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes on both. Was in IC during the summer until health insurance and $ ran out. It started as marriage counseling. We were separated. I told him where to go and what time. He didn't show. It turned into IC. Hate it I had to stop going. We were working on my self esteem and goals. 

I've talked to family but always hear the same thing, "life is too short, make yourself happy.". He's been in the family since I was a small child. It will be hard and hurtful to some of the members. He's like a brother to my sisters and a son to my parents. I've even had one of my family members tell me the grass isn't greener on the other side and I will never find someone that will love me as unabashedly as he does. They love him. l


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Maybe he's punishing me for my ONS? Maybe he can't get over it, won't admit that he can't get over it and lost it for me completely then? Maybe our R has been his way of "getting even"? Maybe he reconciled with the hopes of getting the love back but can't? 

How do I ask these questions to a man that hates when I ask questions?


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Have someone talk to him,,,,family??


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Apparently someone in the family already has, about a month ago. He told me he was "warned" that I was talking about leaving. It infuriated him that I would betray him by telling things to people. He also said it humiliated him and caused things to be awkward around my family because he has no idea "what type of ugly, BS I've told people about what an a$$hole he is".


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

have you separated for any time at all?


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes. A few times since we reconciled/remarried in 1999. Once 2008/2009 for almost 6 months. Two years ago for about 3-4 months. Then this past summer for 2 months.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

WaitForIt... said:


> He doesn't seem to want emotional intimacy and the physical only occasionally with me when he needs to release. He has his childhood best friend that he probably talks to which leaves me nothing. It feels like he keeps me around because it's familiar, I do all the laundry housework, cooking and shopping. All he has to do is go to work. I handle everything else. Convenience and familiarity. He also hates being alone.
> 
> We discussed nothing yesterday. He also never answered my question. He doesn't touch me during the night anymore either.
> 
> ...


I can so relate to your story.

My wife is very much like your husband. Never initiates any intimacy/sex. She avoids me as best she can. When I initiate she will usually reject me. She allows me to arouse her maybe once or twice a month. As you say, it is just mechanical because she needs a release. The rest of the time she shows that she doesn't care about my need for more affection/intimacy/sex.

I am also about to break. I had kind of settled into my marriage being what it is. But the last couple of months the little sex we have has felt more cold and even less emotional than before.

When you are the one constantly asking (and being rejected) it really hurts your self esteem. Makes you feel worthless.

Just turned 50 a few weeks back. No birthday sex. She gave in after constant prodding a couple of days later. Nothing at Christmas and then nothing again at New Years. This morning she told me her period started which I know is a relief to her.

Turning 50 has really made me question my life. Maybe this is what they call a Mid Life Crisis. My feelings today is that come July, I will move out. My son will be graduated from high school. 

I have talked to my mother in law about it. My father in law was very cold to her as well. My mother in law feels sorry for me as she knows what I am going through. I asked her once if she regretted staying with her husband (he passed away a couple of years ago). She had come close to leaving. She never answered my question, which pretty much tells me that yes, she wished she would have left.

I don't really have any advice. Just want you to know that you are not alone. I totally relate to how you must feel.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most
forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same
open my eyes wake up in flames
it took you to make me realize
it took you to make me realize
it took you to make me realize
it took you to make me see the light
smashed up my sanity
smashed up my integrity
smashed up what i believed in
smashed up what's left of me
smashed up my everything
smashed up all that was true
gonna smash myself to pieces
i don't know what else to do
covered in hope and vaseline
still cannot fix this broken machine
watching the hole it used to be mine
just watching it burn in my steady systematic decline
of the trust i will betray
give it to me i throw it away
after everything i've done i hate myself for what i've become
i tried
i gave up
throw it away

That's exactly how I feel. Plus a bunch of other crap I don't want to deal with right now. 

Meeting my friend and former coworker tomorrow to discuss a roommate situation. Possible change of venue this coming Monday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

WaitForIt... said:


> perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most
> forgot how it feels well almost
> no one to blame always the same
> open my eyes wake up in flames
> ...


You aren't giving up. That would be weakness.

You are starting over. That is being strong.

I wish you the very best.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Thank you very much. 

Tomorrow begins the Odyssey of WaitForIt.

Almost 40. No job. Broke as hell. But I will make it.

I'm tough and all these years have proven that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sounhappy (Jul 15, 2012)

"She gave in after constant prodding a couple of days later."

My situation is so much like you and others here, sadly. I don't have any advice either and about the same age as you. The one place we differ though is the prodding. I just can't bring myself ther for the fear, knowledge really, that anything that may result from it would simply be "pity sex". I'd rather go without, as hard as it is, than feel simply serviced. I wish you and all here better days.


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## Random_Girl (Nov 17, 2013)

Your husband sounds very similar to my ex. I spent years doing exactly what you're doing and I know how difficult it is to give up on the idea that things will change - especially when you have someone telling you that YOU are the problem and you are to blame, not them. It makes you doubt yourself and your sanity and feel like if only you tried this or that it would all work out. But in reality, nothing you say or do is going to suddenly make him treat you with love and respect. That should come naturally in a healthy relationship. He may temporarily 'change' as a means of manipulating or controlling you but it will never be permanent.

Your husband is EXTREMELY passive aggressive. He sounds borderline narcissistic. Yes, he is mad at you (if it wasn't the ONS, it would be something else - his anger is not rational or justified) and is withholding sex to punish you. He knows how painful this is for you and that clearly doesn't matter to him. 

He seriously flashes you when he wants sex... what in the world. 

Stop asking him for sex, stop bringing it up, and if he 'initiates' do not respond! Make your exit plan as soon as possible. I know this is all easier said than done. But you shouldn't waste any more of your life trying to make this relationship work. The kind of issues you have described would require years of therapy, and most people with passive aggressive/narcissistic personality disorder will not seek out treatment or ever admit there is a problem. Google about NPD and see if any of it sounds familiar. 

Right before I left my ex h (for the third and final time) I read a book called The Verbally Abusive Relationship (by Patricia Evans) that I highly highly recommend you check out. It helped me more than anything else. Do you have anyone to go to for support? Family, friends, etc?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'm sorry things haven't gone the way you hoped they would. You sound like an intelligent, hard working, kind and thoughtful woman. Endings are so very difficult. His loss. It may be a terrible day in your life but perhaps for the man you will end up with - who will cherish you, love you and support you - it is his lucky day.

You are 40 with so much of life still ahead of you.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

Random_Girl said:


> Your husband is EXTREMELY passive aggressive. He sounds borderline narcissistic.
> 
> ..But you shouldn't waste any more of your life trying to make this relationship work. The kind of issues you have described would require years of therapy, and most people with passive aggressive/narcissistic personality disorder will not seek out treatment or ever admit there is a problem. Google about NPD and see if any of it sounds familiar.


:iagree:

I was thinking Narcissistic Personality Disorder as well (as I've spent many, many hours of my life reading about it and know the signs very well at this point).

My STBX is P-A and NPD, they often go together. Impossible to know if he's full blow NPD, but I can tell you there are lots of red flags that point straight to it in your posts.

Surviving a Narcissist - The Path Forward | Lisa E. Scott
Did The Narcissist Ever Really Love Me?
Narcissistic Relationships: Perils of Loving a Narcissist


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your words of advice, insight, support, understanding and help. 

This morning, my husband said, "don't be home when I get there.". 

So, broke, unemployed and on the coldest day of the year, he tossed me out. I am now packing what clothing and shoes I can to leave. 

He was angry this morning and wanting to fight. Called on his way to work and it resulted in him telling me to go. Told me its never wise to poke something angry with a stick. To be careful what I say and do. That I just push and push until I break whatever it takes. Why do I find it necessary to constantly be miserable and make him feel guilty about everything. Why can't I just be happy. 

I told him fine, I accept all the blame and hoped he was at peace with his decision. 

Then he wanted to know where I'm going.

Said all he ever wanted was to make me happy. He hopes I can find whatever it is I need and want. Then an I love you.

I said all I ever wanted was a best friend of the heart.

He said he wished I could have seen him here all this time. Unfortunately, I don't see him or hear him or understand that he was right here all along.

Yeah, as long as I kept my mouth shut...

The narcissist websites explain a lot. I've been trying to save a marriage to a passive aggressive narcissist.

Like catching water with a net.

Ain't happening.

So, as of this afternoon I will be starting over. 

Yay.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Sorry to see you here. I hate to say it, but I think you may be on the cusp of cheating on your husband if the opportunity presents itself. Not saying you will, but no doubt your resolve is weakened. That's OK to feel that way because you are only human.
> 
> First things first though. Have you told your husband how you feel?


This was me in a nut shell and I ended up cheating! I came to a point where I was convinced he had no attraction to me at all, we both knew he would get off a few times a day so we could take the low T of the list.

We would go almost a year before we would have duty sex and I would cry after. I tried to talk also and got know where. I wish I had an answer for you. We are now 2.6 years in reconciling and I regret going down the path I took, I wish I would have just left the marriage instead of posting a want sex only ad and cheating on him.

Now we have regular sex but have lost trust, his respect, friends, my self respect among so many other things.

No matter what I did to make him want me nothing ever changed or worked until I cheated and now it is all consuming. Please choose carefully, I hate the path I choose!!


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

WaitForIt... said:


> He staunchly refuses any type of counseling. The problem is in my head. He's a good guy. He works, comes home, doesn't hit me, isn't a pill popper or alcoholic, doesn't stay out all night partying and doesn't cheat. He likes himself. There is nothing wrong with him. He doesn't think he needs to change anything.
> 
> These are all exact quotes of things he's said to me.
> 
> ...


This sounds so familiar.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

My H also flat out refused any type of counseling. He said he saw nothing wrong with the marriage (except my unreasonable demand that he participate in it) and said he would never change.

This is actually a narc being honest.

Whatever your H's major malfunction(s) is, his behavior is not acceptable for a spouse. From what you've written, he does not seem to care about you as a wife or as a person.

It will be hard but I think once you're out on your own you'll feel like a huge weight has been lifted off you. I did.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I don't know about the whole "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" thing but he is definitely low drive and can't understand your feelings. 

You two would probably have a fine relationship if you only wanted to be roommates and have sex once in a blue moon.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

This is not about sex and I can finally see that now. The lack of sex and intimacy between us was merely a symptom of all the other problems. Our infidelities, lack of constructive communication, rug sweeping, denial, blame, hurt, anger and resentment led us to where we are now. 

He told me on Monday to not be home when he got there. He slipped and let his true feelings Show which are nothing but resentment and anger and hatred for me. He made fun of me when I cried. He has zero empathy and frankly, is entirely incapable of it with me

As I was leaving our home on Monday afternoon as he requested, He called and told me if I walked out on him again he would never take me back. Soooo he twisted it around And instead of him telling me to leave I walked out again. Seems as though I am supposed to accept and understand him losing his temper and saying things, hurtful and mean, that he truly did not mean. I am supposed to just let these tantrums episodes slide by without mention or a second thought. Even though his words and tone brought me to my knees and crushed my spirits. 

He texted me after work on Monday to ask if I was coming home. A few minutes later he texted again to say that he hoped I would. I did not respond. That evening he texted and said goodnight sleep well. 

I have not heard from him since. 

Yesterday was okay. I spent the day with our eldest child who is soon to marry. Last night was difficult and this morning is horrible. My grief is rendering me and capable of anything but crying and vomiting. I have had no appetite and not eaten a proper meal since Christmas Eve. 

I should go and retrieve the rest of my few belongings From our former home either today or tomorrow but cannot face the thought of returning there yet. I am sorely afraid that if I return to that house I will not leave and my pride will not let me do that. He told me to go. He told me he hated me. I believe it. 

The only way our relationship would ever be just fine is if we never talked about our relationship. I simply cannot adhere to that rule and live in a pretend marriage. I desperately want and need to be able to voice my feelings, thoughts and concerns about anything under the Sun. He desperately wants and needs to do nothing but speak of trivial, inconsequential things. He will not ever have a heavy discussion with me. 

Now, I am absolutely and completely sick over the fact that he is unwilling to do any and everything to save our love. 
I am devastated in this revelation. Actually, I'm going back to bed now and will try to sleep the day away. 

Hope everyone else has a lovely and peaceful day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Sorry to see you going through such a miserable ordeal. I think you are right though -he will never be able to provide the emotional bond that you are looking for. 

He does not seem to understand the concept and as far as I can tell, has never really made any effort to meet you half way.


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## Deseperada (Jan 7, 2014)

I feel your pain.. I've been in a 2 1/2 year relationship and sex is once a wk and maybe if he remembers my needs.. Im dying inside.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Wait for it - I'm so sorry you are having such a difficult time right now. I can only relate somewhat when in was left by a fiance a few months before our wedding. I very well remember not being able to eat or do anything else for quite some time. I understand where you are coming from - do you have a doctor or counselor that can help you through this time? Are you posting on the divorce board? Certainly you would find some support there.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm posting this update because I do not want to lose track of the early days of my freedom. My journal, I guess.

I left him 9 weeks and 1 day ago. Attempted everything possible to salvage the last crumbs of our marriage. Realized I couldn't do it alone and gave up. Seriously gave up, for good. 

Spent the week before I left sneaking my personal belongings into storage where my other things had been for 3 years. Was a nervous, shaking, crying mess but held it together when he was home. That Friday, got my clothes, shoes and toiletries, important papers and all the pictures I could get my hands on. 

I knew once he realized I was truly gone, I'd never see anything inside that house again. Left a note on the table and my house key. The note basically said goodbye, may we meet again after we've become different people, hope he takes care of himself and I'd always love him. 

That night he texted me to not take his sunshine away. That he'd be right there waiting for me and would never stop loving me. Said to do whatever I needed to do for myself and he'd support me in any way, even if it meant he had to wait or lose me forever. He only wants what will make me happy, he loves me too much to hurt me and looked forward to hearing from me. 

We had little to no contact for a couple of weeks. Beginning of June, he texted a couple of times. Light conversation, maybe 6-8 texts total. He texted out of the clear blue at the end of June that he loved me. We texted a little and talked on the phone once. 

In the meantime, I began going to group counseling for abused women, IC, found and began a good job making more money than I ever had and moved in with a roommate. The bills are a breeze. Also began the process to enroll in school to finish my degree. 

Beginning of July, I got an alert text from our cell phone provider. He is on my plan, in my name. Has been for years. I figured he could have 90 days still on the plan to prepare to transfer to his own account. Our youngest daughter is on the plan as well.

Got into my account online thinking it would be my daughter who had gone over. Nope. It was him. 2 weeks after I left, he began texting and having phone conversations with a number I did not recognize. 1700+ msgs and 600+ minutes in 2 weeks and was growing every week. The amount of calls and texts were silly. Couldn't figure out how he got work done. I knew in my heart what was up. 

Went into PI mode and discovered he contacted her on fb 2 weeks after I left, asking her # and on a date. She accepted and off they went! Thing is, she's the sister of a childhood friend of ours. She knows he is still married and that we've been together since she was in middle school. She was also dating someone when she and my husband "reconnected". 

This stung but I knew that I had left him and he would lash out this way. That's what he does when we have marriage-threatening issues... he runs to other women. So, I informed him that I knew and would be filing for divorce asap. 

He responded that he realized he would never have me completely. That I took everything with me when I left even all our pictures which proved I wasn't his friend or wife. That I was gone long before I left, he'd only been on one date and didn't try to kiss her. He didn't know what the future held for us but he gave up. Ended with I don't tell you these things to hurt me, it's because he loves me. 

Apparently this time playing the field is different though. They're in "secret" love. Hm. Haven't heard from him in 3 weeks. Last time we spoke on the phone he said he was filing for divorce and was ticked I had his phone turned off. Oh well, I wasn't going to pay or enable him to have dalliances with other women while we are still legally married. 

Thursday was our 23rd anniversary. No contact. Friday, I filed for divorce. 

I'm glad I left. My life is much more peaceful and harmonious now. I don't have to worry about saying anything that will turn into an abusive rage. I've spent tons of time with my family and am bonding with them on an extraordinary level. My daughters too. After filing yesterday, I visited with my youngest for a while at her apartment and she told me she was proud of me for following through. 

I'm meeting people and doing all sorts of things I would have never done before or been "allowed" to. I have goals and am reaching them. Big ones and little ones. My family members have made comments like, you look better than you have in years and it's so good to see you smile and laugh. And I do smile and laugh. I look forward to the future and don't sit on the back porch playing solitaire and begging God to take me today. I know I will be ok. One day, I will thrive. Getting there.

Sometimes, I hurt though. Tears come from no where. The ache is physical. Have to literally restrain myself sometimes from calling, texting or emailing him. Just to hear his voice. Never do though. I've not turned to alcohol and won't. A beer or two sometimes and that's it. But, never when I feel low.

For a long time after I left, I hid my emotions from everyone except my counselor and group. Put on the brave face. Then one day I realized I was sneaking into the bathroom at work to shed a few tears. Crying in the car when alone. Short spurts and it was eating me alive to not release them all at once. Couldn't figure out what exactly the feelings were, just knew I felt like my soul and heart were being squeezed into dust.

Finally, one day a couple of weeks ago, I sat down with myself and wrote the emotions as I had them. It dawned on me that the key to my recovery from a failed, abusive marriage that had lasted just under 23 years was this: 

I did not need to cover up or hide my feelings for any reason. I HAD to name them, own feel, feel them and then let them go. Spent so many years being degraded, belittled or told I was crazy for having even feelings that this was difficult. 

But I'm doing it and getting better every day. Don't think about him as much and the ache is becoming less and less. 

I've done the right thing for me. I'm happy now.

If you are currently in an unhappy, unhealthy and hurtful marriage and you cannot get your spouse to help you with the problems, run. Save yourself years of the worst torture a human can endure. There is a prize at the end of the tunnel and it's YOU.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

what a beautiful story.

The tears are natural and with time will give way to a new dawn.

And then a new morning. You will be able to see the blue sky and hear the birds sing.

I've been there.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

Random_Girl said:


> Your husband is EXTREMELY passive aggressive. He sounds almost narcissistic...


He sounds like a guy who got cornered into marriage when he was way too young. He sounds like a man who was expected to support his growing family with no help from his wife for years! The OP is almost 40, her kids are grown, and she didn't have a job until she moved out. If I were in her husband's situation, I'd have so much resentment built over the years, that sex would be out of the question 100%! I'd probably be sleeping in a different room! Yet, provided the OP never worked, divorce is going to be expensive for him.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

My impression after reading your story is that your future is going to be incredible. 

Something tells me you will find a relationship with a man this time as opposed to a passive aggressive teenager.

I wish you nothing but the best an am quite sure you will find it!


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

rubymoon said:


> He sounds like a guy who got cornered into marriage when he was way too young. He sounds like a man who was expected to support his growing family with no help from his wife for years! The OP is almost 40, her kids are grown, and she didn't have a job until she moved out. If I were in her husband's situation, I'd have so much resentment built over the years, that sex would be out of the question 100%! I'd probably be sleeping in a different room! Yet, provided the OP never worked, divorce is going to be expensive for him.


Your assumption is incorrect. We discussed and agreed on me being a stay-at-home mom until our daughters were through elementary school. I have been unemployed for a total of eight months since the year 2000. So, I was gainfully employed well over half of our marriage. All he had to do was go to work and come home. I handled the household, children, bills, everything else. My money went to the bills and children. His money went to alcohol, drugs, concerts, partying and his toys. There were times, when the economy tanked, that I work two jobs and he was unemployed. 

Also, I am asking for nothing in the divorce. He has 2 trucks, two motorcycles, a boat, all the household furniture. I took my personal belongings, clothes and My Car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

WaitForIt... said:


> Your assumption is incorrect. We discussed and agreed on me being a stay-at-home mom until our daughters were through elementary school. I have been unemployed for a total of eight months since the year 2000. So, I was gainfully employed well over half of our marriage. All he had to do was go to work and come home. I handled the household, children, bills, everything else. My money went to the bills and children. His money went to alcohol, drugs, concerts, partying and his toys. There were times, when the economy tanked, that I work two jobs and he was unemployed.
> 
> Also, I am asking for nothing in the divorce. He has 2 trucks, two motorcycles, a boat, all the household furniture. I took my personal belongings, clothes and My Car.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If I am wrong, then I apologize. In that case, I do not understand why you stayed with him that long... There is something broken inside you to put up with it for over 2 decades. Focus on that. Best of luck!


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