# Dating after divorce - expectations



## death and taxes

Some quick background - divorce finalized in December 2012, separated in September 2012 after being married 11 years. I've dated around, had a rebound girlfriend way earlier this year. And recently met this woman and fell hard for her. And she for me. I'm 35. She's 40 with two 11 year old kids. She's been divorced for over five years after being married for about five or six.

We've been seeing each other for over three months. We're exclusive. Things seemed like they were going really well, and we were seeing each other a few times a week. Dinner, spending time together, etc. 

Then about three weeks ago I feel as if she's pulling back somewhat. We talk about it - she felt like I was being needy. It's not like I was demanding all her time. I would ask if she would want to have dinner or spend time together and she would say sure. 

For the past three weeks, we see each other about twice a week. Usually on Wednesday night and then again either on Saturday or Sunday. Our time together is good. But now it just feels like things have slipped into a lower gear. And that's just really frustrating for me. But I am ok with it - I think she's a great lady - and she might be busy and not just want to include me in too much this soon. 

With only a little over three months into a relationship - and me still kinda newly divorced - am I expecting too much to want to see her more than two times a week? I am just looking for additional perspectives and from people with more experience with post-divorce dating.


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## COGypsy

I would say yes, more than twice a week for dating is a lot. I've been seeing a really great guy for about 6 or 7 months now and we see each other about twice a week. More than that and I get stressed. Not by seeing him, seeing him is always a fun time. But in order for me to relax and have a nice weekend with him, then work needs to be done, laundry, grocery shopping...the time I have to do that around work, golf and friends, is during the week. Plus, I like my down time. Doesn't mean I like him any less, but the fact that he understands that most evenings I am just done for the day is a huge plus! We also live 30+ minutes apart, so there really isn't a "quick date" for weeknights that's convenient to both of us.

I think that often in the spot you're in, you have a natural inclination to want to make a romantic relationship feel like marriage. By that I mean you want to go full bore for the holding hands watching TV, don't have to do anything in particular stage of companionship. Unfortunately, in my brain, if I have company over watching TV, then they need to be entertained and if you're on my couch watching TV for the evening, I'm NOT picking up the cleaning, doing the dishes or cleaning the bathroom like I probably would be on a Tuesday night.

I'd say your better tactic is to make the date nights you have fun and relaxing and something to look forward to rather than worrying about how many date nights there are during the week. Maybe find something to entertain yourself with on the other evenings so that you have something to do besides hear about her week?


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## Dedicated2Her

COGypsy said:


> I would say yes, more than twice a week for dating is a lot. I've been seeing a really great guy for about 6 or 7 months now and we see each other about twice a week. More than that and I get stressed. Not by seeing him, seeing him is always a fun time. But in order for me to relax and have a nice weekend with him, then work needs to be done, laundry, grocery shopping...the time I have to do that around work, golf and friends, is during the week. Plus, I like my down time. Doesn't mean I like him any less, but the fact that he understands that most evenings I am just done for the day is a huge plus! We also live 30+ minutes apart, so there really isn't a "quick date" for weeknights that's convenient to both of us.
> 
> I think that often in the spot you're in, you have a natural inclination to want to make a romantic relationship feel like marriage. By that I mean you want to go full bore for the holding hands watching TV, don't have to do anything in particular stage of companionship. Unfortunately, in my brain, if I have company over watching TV, then they need to be entertained and if you're on my couch watching TV for the evening, I'm NOT picking up the cleaning, doing the dishes or cleaning the bathroom like I probably would be on a Tuesday night.
> 
> I'd say your better tactic is to make the date nights you have fun and relaxing and something to look forward to rather than worrying about how many date nights there are during the week. Maybe find something to entertain yourself with on the other evenings so that you have something to do besides hear about her week?


Two words: outside interests. You need them. When my gf and I started dating we saw each other 1 maybe twice a week for about 3-4 months. It escalated from there. We support each others hobbies by encouraging each other to go out and do them. Granted, we have started to have some of our hobbies entertwine (crossfit). But, we are both super busy as parents and with work. So, there's a mutual respect there. One other thought, why would you ask her about her pulling back??? Ugh. 3 months in? Straight up needy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## death and taxes

Dedicated2Her said:


> One other thought, why would you ask her about her pulling back??? Ugh. 3 months in? Straight up needy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I admit my complicity. But I feel like I'm bearing the full brunt of how she feels without her looking at herself in enabling it. 

I do appreciate the responses given so far. Great insight.


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## Married but Happy

It may be better to pull back yourself, and only see her once a week for a while. Let her miss you and initiate. If she doesn't do so after a month or so, then she's not into you enough for the relationship to succeed. Give it some time and space and see what happens.


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## Hardtohandle

First off I like the post, you expressed yourself quite well. 

I like what COGypsy said as well. Again another thing that brings things into perspective. 

Part of your issue is she has kids and you don't, so your free time is your free time. Whereas her free time is divided between her and her kids.

This stuff is rough. It just isn't boy meets girl anymore unfortunately. 

I do agree to slowly pull back a bit yourself and see what she does.. I hate to be playing these retarded games but it's just how it is unfortunately.


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## Dedicated2Her

death and taxes said:


> I admit my complicity. But I feel like I'm bearing the full brunt of how she feels without her looking at herself in enabling it.
> 
> I do appreciate the responses given so far. Great insight.


See, you are looking at the relationship as some long term senario. Its been 3 months. These types of talks should only happen after a year when the relationship has had time to grow. It's just premature to really talk about enabling, etc. Your mind is still in marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## death and taxes

Dedicated2Her said:


> See, you are looking at the relationship as some long term senario. Its been 3 months. These types of talks should only happen after a year when the relationship has had time to grow. It's just premature to really talk about enabling, etc. Your mind is still in marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you're right on the mind still in marriage part. I have to remind myself that I'm not married, this is not my wife. We're just dating. 

And the previous comment about kids vs no kids. That's a big commitment. I have a lot more free time. 

I think getting used to dating somebody with these commitments will take time. I love the feedback! I need to be called on my crap from time to time.


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## Dedicated2Her

death and taxes said:


> I think you're right on the mind still in marriage part. I have to remind myself that I'm not married, this is not my wife. We're just dating.
> 
> And the previous comment about kids vs no kids. That's a big commitment. I have a lot more free time.
> 
> I think getting used to dating somebody with these commitments will take time. I love the feedback! I need to be called on my crap from time to time.


Don't be too hard on yourself. Its very normal. That's why I say divorced people are typically not good at dating, but good at long term relationships. You'll be fine if you really focus on yourself. Look at her as icing on the cake, not the cake itself. She is an enhancer of happiness in your life, not the source.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle

death and taxes said:


> I think you're right on the mind still in marriage part. I have to remind myself that I'm not married, this is not my wife. We're just dating.
> 
> And the previous comment about kids vs no kids. That's a big commitment. I have a lot more free time.
> 
> I think getting used to dating somebody with these commitments will take time. I love the feedback! I need to be called on my crap from time to time.


Dude I did the same thing you did..

Even after people told me beforehand about first relationship will feel serious and not to get sucked into it too fast.. I knew the answers and still failed the test..


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## Love2326

At three months in, you're still learning about the other person. How they are in long-term relationships, how they react to certain things.. that will all come out with time. But everyone here is right: you have to remember that she has children, which obviously come first. Her time is spread very thin. She may be feeling some of that pressure to spend time with you and her kids, which can be exhausting. Maybe she also needs "me" time, just like you. Give it to her. 

Dating relationships are very different than marriage relationships. You cannot expect the same things right off the bat.


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## Freak On a Leash

I have said this before and will say it again: Why, after all the time, effort and cost of getting a divorce from a failed marriage are so many divorcees looking to jump RIGHT BACK INTO a committed relationship before the ink is even dry on the divorce agreement? :scratchhead:

It sounds like you've been separated, divorced, rebound GF and now "you've fallen hard" after 3 months for this next one. What ELSE have you done? Any friends? Hobbies? Vacations? Bought a red sports car? Anything besides dating? 

Seems like most of your energy is devoted to finding another marital situation but you haven't even given yourself time to recover from the last one!

So yeah, you come off as needy because you in "need" mode. She's been divorced a lot longer than you and is probably in an entirely different mindset than you are. 

Not until you can be on your own and be happy and content doing so are you truly ready to be in a relationship. I think your "need' is what is scaring off this woman. A woman can smell a needy guy a mile away. So no, it's not the amount of time you are seeing her but the vibes you are giving off. 

Why not take a break and pull back and do some fun stuff on your own? Join a club, get some hobbies, do a bit of male bonding stuff, eventually casually date a lot of different women. You will find that women will be MUCH more attracted to you in the long run because you will come off as a healthy, well adjusted guy, which is very attractive in itself. 

Personally, I wouldn't want to be seeing anyone twice a week or have it expected of me. I've got two kids, hobbies, friends, etc and the idea of being tied down in any way scares the hell out of me..


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## Freak On a Leash

COGypsy said:


> I think that often in the spot you're in, you have a natural inclination to want to make a romantic relationship feel like marriage. By that I mean you want to go full bore for the holding hands watching TV, don't have to do anything in particular stage of companionship. Unfortunately, in my brain, if I have company over watching TV, then they need to be entertained and if you're on my couch watching TV for the evening, I'm NOT picking up the cleaning, doing the dishes or cleaning the bathroom like I probably would be on a Tuesday night.
> 
> I'd say your better tactic is to make the date nights you have fun and relaxing


:iagree: I can not tell you enough how much of a turn off it would be to have some guy want to hang out at my house and watch TV while I play "wifey". Not going to happen! For me, dating is about GOING OUT and having a good time. 

I've done the "stay home and watch TV" bit for the past 20 years. Yuck.


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## FeministInPink

Freak On a Leash said:


> :iagree: I can not tell you enough how much of a turn off it would be to have some guy want to hang out at my house and watch TV while I play "wifey". Not going to happen! For me, dating is about GOING OUT and having a good time.
> 
> I've done the "stay home and watch TV" bit for the past 20 years. Yuck.


I have to say that I agree with these two ladies. I spent enough time with my STBXH sitting on the couch, watching TV, and ignoring me. If we're dating, take me OUT and pay attention to me.


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## death and taxes

Freak - you have lots of good words to chew over. I haven't ignored myself at all. I have my own friends and hobbies and whatnot. I understand what you're saying. Thanks for saying it straight.


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## Pepper123

I dated a guy for 3 months. I have a child, and he didn't. I ended up dumping him because he was always expecting me to come to him when I didn't have my son. We lived about 25 minutes apart, so I was constantly driving back and forth. Finally I woke up and realized he didn't give a crap about how hard it is to work FT and be a single parent. Essentially, he was selfish. No regrets for ending that relationship. 

Not sure if that plays into your situation or not, but being a single parent is really hard and emotionally taxing. She still needs time for herself as well.


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## angelpixie

Thanks for the great and realistic words here. I think they needed to be said. I've heard a lot of men say the opposite on TAM -- how the guy should expect to be put first in the relationship, how they don't want to be put after the kids -- even in a relationship with a single parent where the kids were there first. 

That's just not reality for a lot of single moms. In many of our cases, we were not only working full time, we were moms and too often, taking care of man-child spouses. It takes a while to adjust to just taking care of ourselves and the kid(s) and actually having 'me' time -- maybe for the first time since before marriage. Once life starts to settle down, feeling like you're back in that old caretaking marriage situation seems like something you want to run away from. It's not one of the parts of marriage that we miss, lol.

Some women do want to go full-bore into another marriage or marriage-type situation right away after a divorce. Personally, I'd see this as a red flag for codependency issues.

There's a bit of an odd perception that I've noticed here and in 'real life' -- single dads who spend a lot of time with their kids and put them first are admired by women and are seen as a 'good catch,' while women who do the same are seen as not good partner material. Yet, if they walk away from their kids and put a guy first, they're treated like tramps. 

If you're a guy who actually does respect a woman who's trying to be a good single mom and rebuild her life after a split, then give her space. Pull back and let her know you don't have expectations she has to meet along with all of the other expectations in her life. Be the part of her life she looks forward to, and the person she wants to spend time with.


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## Jellybeans

death and taxes said:


> With only a little over three months into a relationship - and me still kinda newly divorced - am I expecting too much to want to see her more than two times a week? I am just looking for additional perspectives and from people with more experience with post-divorce dating.


Ask her. Talk to her about what she thinks is good and work together.

You're only 3 months in and it does sound like it got pretty involved fast. If she wants to pull back, follow suit a little.


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## Hardtohandle

Dedicated2Her said:


> See, you are looking at the relationship as some long term senario. Its been 3 months. These types of talks should only happen after a year when the relationship has had time to grow. It's just premature to really talk about enabling, etc. Your mind is still in marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am guilty of this as well. I have no clue why the fvck I do such dumb **** like this as well.


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## Freak On a Leash

FeministInPink said:


> If we're dating, take me OUT and pay attention to me.


In my book, that's not an option. It's mandatory.


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## Freak On a Leash

death and taxes said:


> Freak - you have lots of good words to chew over. I haven't ignored myself at all. I have my own friends and hobbies and whatnot. I understand what you're saying. Thanks for saying it straight.


I'm known for saying it straight.  Thanks for being a good sport about it. 

I wasn't sure where you were at because your original post was mostly about your dating life, etc. 

So if you have friends, hobbies, etc then concentrate on that aspect of your life and let your love interest miss having you around. If she doesn't then it wasn't meant to be in any case.


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## death and taxes

Freak On a Leash said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by FeministInPink
> If we're dating, take me OUT and pay attention to me.
> 
> In my book, that's not an option. It's mandatory.


For damn sure! I am taking her out to dinner and a concert this Saturday! I haven't stopped taking her out. And I don't plan on it. I rather enjoy our dates out.

I did have some good conversation with her tonight about me being 'needy' and recognizing that we both need our own space at times. Very good communication.


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## angstire

angelpixie said:


> If you're a guy who actually does respect a woman who's trying to be a good single mom and rebuild her life after a split, then give her space. Pull back and let her know you don't have expectations she has to meet along with all of the other expectations in her life. Be the part of her life she looks forward to, and the person she wants to spend time with.


A red flag for me would be a woman who easily gave up time with her kids to date me. I'd wonder why they were sacrificing their primary job to hang with me. My gut would say trying to capture me or a bad parent, or both.

If a woman couldn't come up with any time to date, then she shouldn't be dating me. But, I'd understand and respect her more, if I got told as often as I say, sorry, that week is off limits because I'm rockstar dad that week. I can flirt with you and buy you drinks, etc. this week, but the week after is all kids, all the time and I have no time for you or any other ladies, besides the ones with my nose. 

If a woman didn't set up the same boundary with me, I'd wonder what was really going on, and walk eventually.

My $.02.


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## Deejo

Dedicated2Her said:


> Your mind is still in marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bingo.

You aren't thinking like a single man with as much freedom as you choose to give yourself.

You are thinking like a coupled man, with a woman who is in the previous category I mentioned. 

Biggest thing I try to convey to people newly single and jumping in the dating pool again; is to enjoy the journey rather than focusing on the destination.

Given where you are in this relationship, and she has already thrown out the 'N' word, respectfully, you are now in the winding down phase. It isnt' likely to grow. It is likely to contract.

You need to learn to not fight that.

My mantra is pretty simple. I let the relationship be what it is meant to be.
I don't try to steer it towards a long term relationship. Consequently I have had everything from incredibly passionate albeit brief couplings, to relatively subdued, respectful, dating situations.

If you give me the choice between 3 months of unhinged passion and then it's over, versus a year of slowly getting to know someone in hopes of building a lifetime with them, I'm picking unhinged passion with a lifespan every time.

'Endings' don't have to be bad.

Last girlfriend and I had the best breakup ever. I knew she was coming over to tell me she couldn't do it any more. I told her I understood. We made love, hugged, kissed and I waved goodbye as she drove away. Sad? Sure. What we envisioned on our 6 months together? No. But once someone is in that place, when you are dating as an adult ... the worse thing you can do is try to convince them to stay.

I'd rather have those great memories about the relationship, instead of letting it devolve into an avoidant, angry, mess.

So ... stop talking to your lady friend about the future. If you ask her out and she says no, be fine with it. If you know she's pulling away, just end it ... respectfully.

I'm serious, it's important to know how to dump and how to be dumped. Because it's gonna happen.


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## Stretch

Damn you Anchorman, I was just about to go there.

I was there and had the revelation. The freedom you get is a gift not a punishment. Having a two,three or four day a week gf instead of a seven day a week gf is a licensed to do what you want to do without pissing anyone off.

Sit on the couch and watch TV 2-3 nights a week while working your junk or picking your nose or eating ice crean straight from the container. Hell yah man! 

Softball two nights a week, happy hour with the bro's whatever it is.

Can you see the beauty of it gentleman. Treat your lady great the days she can give you and enjoy yourself doing dude things the days she can"t

All you need is a wingman, so go live life,
Stretch


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## Dedicated2Her

> If you give me the choice between 3 months of unhinged passion and then it's over, versus a year of slowly getting to know someone in hopes of building a lifetime with them, I'm picking unhinged passion with a lifespan every time.


This is so true. Quite honestly, if a girl told me I was needy, she would have to pursue me from that point on in order to be in a relationship with me. Sorry.


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## FeministInPink

Dedicated2Her said:


> This is so true. Quite honestly, if a girl told me I was needy, she would have to pursue me from that point on in order to be in a relationship with me. Sorry.


LOL, if I thought a guy was needy, I wouldn't choose to pursue him anyway 

So good on you for having the self-respect (to make your previous comment)!


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## angstire

Deejo said:


> I'd rather have those great memories about the relationship, instead of letting it devolve into an avoidant, angry, mess.
> 
> I'm serious, it's important to know how to dump and how to be dumped. Because it's gonna happen.


Awesome, awesome post. Thanks. I liked the whole thing, but these two thoughts in particular. Good to keep top of mind when dating after divorce.


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## lenzi

death and taxes said:


> Then about three weeks ago I feel as if she's pulling back somewhat. We talk about it - she felt like I was being needy.


If she says you're being needy then the warning salvo has been fired. You would be wise not to ignore it.

It doesn't MATTER if you're really being needy or not, what matters is that she thinks you are, she feels suffocated and she wants her space.

Back off and give it to her. Do not call her, do not ask her out. Let her take the initiative. Let her come to you.

Otherwise you will lose her for sure. 

P.S. When I'm single I ALWAYS multiple date, at least until I'm with a woman long enough that we mutually and easily agree on exclusivity and to enter a committed relationship for the long haul.

I suggest you put yourself out there on the dating sites again. And yes, she can know about it. 

Makes you more valuable in her eyes.


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## death and taxes

lenzi said:


> If she says you're being needy then the warning salvo has been fired. You would be wise not to ignore it.
> 
> It doesn't MATTER if you're really being needy or not, what matters is that she thinks you are, she feels suffocated and she wants her space.
> 
> Back off and give it to her. Do not call her, do not ask her out. Let her take the initiative. Let her come to you.
> 
> Otherwise you will lose her for sure.
> 
> P.S. When I'm single I ALWAYS multiple date, at least until I'm with a woman long enough that we mutually and easily agree on exclusivity and to enter a committed relationship for the long haul.
> 
> I suggest you put yourself out there on the dating sites again. And yes, she can know about it.
> 
> Makes you more valuable in her eyes.


I did some multiple dating. Interesting. The first time I went out with the lady I'm seeing now, I had a date line up after our's. We hit it off very well and by the third or fourth date I stopped multiple dating.

It had been very unhinged passion. It was grrrreat! And it's cooled off a bit and reality is smacking me in the face now. It will take some getting used to. I enjoy all the comments. My take away is: 1) be cool and 2) find and enjoy being yourself. 

I am definitely pulling back and seeing if she will make any moves.


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## Hardtohandle

lenzi said:


> P.S. When I'm single I ALWAYS multiple date, at least until I'm with a woman long enough that we mutually and easily agree on exclusivity and to enter a committed relationship for the long haul.
> 
> I suggest you put yourself out there on the dating sites again. And yes, she can know about it.
> 
> Makes you more valuable in her eyes.


I wish I had the time to multi-date..

1. 2 kids full time. My wife has only one of them on mon and tues. Not that I am complaining.. I was shocked that the kids are with me to be honest.

2. My 8 year old misses me when I go out too long.. On the weekends I let him stay up till 10 pm with his big brother.. I get calls starting at 8 PM when I am coming home..

3. I live in a large city.. Stuff is expensive here.. Dinner is costing me at least 100 bucks with a couple of drinks. Getting a date on Friday and Saturday.. Just too much money after a while. 

4.The relationship is always gonna be great if you only see someone every other weekend.

5. Finally I'm too square and old fashioned.. I date one woman and see where it goes.. You know in a few weeks or months anyways, either your feel it or you don't. 

My friend is straight up though.. He tells woman I can be your Mr Tuesday if you like and amazingly enough some go for it.. 

For me I am a firm believer life is meant for 2.. If I wanted to be alone I wouldn't have gotten married and I would have never had kids.. I'm not going to let a failed marriage or my wives failure I should say destroy my trust in another human being..

The one thing I can say is when I meet some woman even though we might not exactly click sometimes at least you can see they now have that understanding if they also come out of a failed marriage or relationship. 

It funny when a woman tells me you don't understand I have my kids with me all the time its hard for me to go out and I respond back I know so do I.. Even then they think I'm every other week parent.. I enjoy the look of shock on their face when I tell them I have my kids 7 days a week. I always get the how can a mother leave her kids, I can understand the father but how can a mother.. I take offense to that statement but I swallow it as I can get what they are saying even if it doesn't sound right.


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## 2galsmom

I think the word "needy" is a bad sign, does she respect you? Was there a way she could have phrased it better? I think so. I agree with the other posters, enjoy your time with her but do not invest your hard emotion and bank on a future with this woman as of yet. I would never use that term with a man because if it were used on me I would be offended.


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## lenzi

Hardtohandle said:


> I wish I had the time to multi-date..
> 
> 1. 2 kids full time.
> 
> 2. My 8 year old misses me when I go out too long.


Make the first series of dates short. 



Hardtohandle said:


> 3. I live in a large city.. Stuff is expensive here.. Dinner is costing me at least 100 bucks with a couple of drinks. Getting a date on Friday and Saturday.. Just too much money after a while.


I never make the first date a full dinner engagement. It's short, at a coffeehouse or diner, because most first dates don't make it to a second date, either they're just plain old/fat/ugly and don't look anything like their profile, or there just isn't a click. The few that make the cut can always be scheduled for something a bit longer and more "formal". If I date a woman a few times and she doesn't pull out the AMEX card, well we're going to talk about that before things go further. If she pulls the old "I'm old fashioned and think the guy should always pay" card, it's the last thing she's going to say to me. 



Hardtohandle said:


> .The relationship is always gonna be great if you only see someone every other weekend.


Don't agree. It can't really go anywhere, it won't build into anything. Although many seem to be ok with long distance relationships, and they might only see each other once every few months or so. No thanks. My dating radius is 30 minutes max.



Hardtohandle said:


> Finally I'm too square and old fashioned.. I date one woman and see where it goes.. You know in a few weeks or months anyways, either your feel it or you don't.


Get up to speed. Most of the people you contact on the dating sites are talking to other people. If you put all your eggs in one basket you might find yourself disappointed on a regular bases, and if you multiple date you'll have more confidence because you'll have options. You won't be as available to your potential dating partners and that makes you more valuable/attractive. Yes you'll find out in a few weeks or months but why waste all that time? You could be learning about a few people in that time period, not just one.



Hardtohandle said:


> My friend is straight up though.. He tells woman I can be your Mr Tuesday if you like and amazingly enough some go for it..


Some woman see these types of guys as a great catch because they're desired by so many women. Not my style. I multiple date only for a short time, my goal is one woman. I've had several long relationships, up to 2 years, and my current one is going strong at 1.5 years. When I met her I was dating 4 other women. 



Hardtohandle said:


> For me I am a firm believer life is meant for 2.. If I wanted to be alone I wouldn't have gotten married and I would have never had kids


Me too. I'm talking about multiple dating with a goal of a monogamous, committed exclusive relationship, not just dating different women all the time to add notches to my belt. 



Hardtohandle said:


> I'm not going to let a failed marriage or my wives failure I should say destroy my trust in another human being..


Well, I will. I'll never trust another human being completely. You never, ever know what another person is capable of doing. 



Hardtohandle said:


> I enjoy the look of shock on their face when I tell them I have my kids 7 days a week. I always get the how can a mother leave her kids, I can understand the father but how can a mother..


Some women will find your full time father status as a very attractive thing. Others will run for the hills.


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## angstire

Great post Lenzi. 

The paying thing is a big deal to me. I went out with a nice woman last weekend who didn't even reach for her purse when the check came. I liked talking with her, she's cute, but if that happens again; no third date.


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## lenzi

angstire said:


> I went out with a nice woman last weekend who didn't even reach for her purse when the check came. I liked talking with her, she's cute, but if that happens again; no third date.


If you like her, give her the opportunity to address your concerns. Tell her "this one is on you". 

If she pulls the good old "I'm an old fashioned girl and think the man should pay", then you can tell her you don't work that way and if she's unwilling to bend on that one then goodbye and good luck.


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## angstire

Probably best to discuss with her, per your suggestion.

I also have seen that he/she who invites, pays. I'm cool with that, which is why I'm waiting to see how the second one goes. I asked her out on the first, she had a recommendation on the second, so that's like an invite.

Honestly, I was surprised. Here in the frigid North, first dates are usually a Dutch affair.

So many difficult convos to have during dating. This ones on you. I'm not interested in another date. Phew.


----------



## COGypsy

angstire said:


> Probably best to discuss with her, per your suggestion.
> 
> I also have seen that he/she who invites, pays. I'm cool with that, which is why I'm waiting to see how the second one goes. I asked her out on the first, she had a recommendation on the second, so that's like an invite.
> 
> Honestly, I was surprised. Here in the frigid North, first dates are usually a Dutch affair.
> 
> So many difficult convos to have during dating. This ones on you. I'm not interested in another date. Phew.


I subscribe to the s/he that invites, pays theory. For dating and for most other social outings. But in my not-quite-frigid Northern crowd, we usually only go Dutch if we're in large groups or at no-host events like happy hours. We might split the expenses for an outing (I'll get tickets, you get lunch) but for the most part one person or the other usually pays.


----------



## Jellybeans

So men, if you go on a date with a hot lady and you pay for most things and she offers to buy you a drink later, do you say no or yes?


----------



## Tomara

From this woman's point of view I alway offer to pay on a date but dang, I have dated some idiots. They always let me pick up the tab.......no second date ever happens. I didn't do the inviting.
Another one said we were a couple after a week of daing, then he totally backed off and said I was needy. OMG flames were coming out my ears. He was the one being pushy.
There is not good way of dating as far as I can see. Lesbian or nun which shall my next life calling be???????


----------



## Jellybeans

Try women first. And if not, then go nun. But def try to get som handsy-pandsy physicality first. 

Don't go nun/chaste until you have exhausted all possibilities. LOL


----------



## angstire

Jellybeans said:


> So men, if you go on a date with a hot lady and you pay for most things and she offers to buy you a drink later, do you say no or yes?


I always say yes to being bought a drink. Always.

From a dating perspective, that would lessen the blow of paying for dinner a little, but if that happened twice in a row, no third date. Even with drinks at the end of the night.

It kind of depends and can be a grey area. Women and men are in theory equal (I know, men still make more), but it chaffs my feminist streak to pay for for all. If I buy $100 dinner and she buys a $5 beer, disparity. If I buy $100 dinner and she buys $40 of drinks, closer to fair.

It's a grey area, like I said. But, if there's no reaching for that purse on the first and second date, there will be no third. Of course Minnesotans are masters of, "I got, no I got it, no I'll pay, no I won't let you pay I'll pay, etc."


----------



## FeministInPink

I haven't actually been out dating yet, but where are you going that you're dropping that much money on a first date? Since my STBXH left, I'm living on a Mickey D's budget. I would never expext a guy to drop that much money on a first date, if only because I could never afford to reciprocate. (I work in education in a very expensive city.) I'm more interested in doing something fun and interesting, and getting to know him, than how much money a guy spends. Save the expensive date for a special occasion. Is that unrealistic?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hope4family

Alright how many of you are under 30 with 1 kid full time? 

I can understand all these take it slow and rule of 3 concepts if I were a little older (almost 30) in fact, I kinda hang out with several women that some could argue is dating. 

But where do I find the mid/late 20 something who is interested in a take it slow relationship, which btw I am wondering after how many dates do you "take it slow" people suggest before sex becomes involved?

I have so many questions, but truth be told, sometimes I wonder if I am either more mature for my age group (20 somethings), or not mature enough for the next group up. (30 somethings.)


----------



## 2galsmom

I knew I was not ready for dating and now that I have lurked in this thread the deal is sealed. I swear, all this worrying about how much money is spent on the date? Forget it. This did not occur before I got married and now I have to see who reaches for their wallet, who does not?

hope4family you are YOUNG! Congratulations do not worry, you have sooooo much time! Something will come your way.

It seems with us older ones we are reduced to 1) coffee to eliminate liars and hideous repulsive trolls. Pass that? On to step 2) Dinner or something at a mutually cost effective locale. 3) Test at step 2 - who pays? Split it? Yes or no, pass or fail. 4) Sex - really? What if I don't want it as I have trust issues after step 3 and the pressure?

You all go have fun and tell me how it goes while I sort out the rest of my life. I have one piece of advice, if he takes you to Burger King AND has a coupon or sends you only a half dozen roses DUMP HIM!


----------



## FeministInPink

hope4family said:


> Alright how many of you are under 30 with 1 kid full time?
> 
> I can understand all these take it slow and rule of 3 concepts if I were a little older (almost 30) in fact, I kinda hang out with several women that some could argue is dating.
> 
> But where do I find the mid/late 20 something who is interested in a take it slow relationship, which btw I am wondering after how many dates do you "take it slow" people suggest before sex becomes involved?
> 
> I have so many questions, but truth be told, sometimes I wonder if I am either more mature for my age group (20 somethings), or not mature enough for the next group up. (30 somethings.)


I'm quite curious to get some feedback as well. The last time I "dated" I was 22; I'm 34 now, and it's clearly a different ball game, but I don't know the rules! One of the things that keeps me on the bench is that I don't know the rules. It took me forever to learn them the first time around, so I need some tutelage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2galsmom

FeministInPink said:


> I'm quite curious to get some feedback as well. The last time I "dated" I was 22; I'm 34 now, and it's clearly a different ball game, but I don't know the rules! One of the things that keeps me on the bench is that I don't know the rules. It took me forever to learn them the first time around, so I need some tutelage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A feminist! You should not need rules madame. I am currently not a fan of these rules I mentioned in my previous post.


----------



## FeministInPink

2galsmom said:


> A feminist! You should not need rules madame. I am currently not a fan of these rules I mentioned in my previous post.



I've always disregarded the ru les in the past, and you see where it's gotten me 

Jist kidding! But yeah, I like to do things according to my own rules. (See my other most recent post on this thread.) I think my expectations of dating are very different, and not nearly as high maintenance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2galsmom

Alas, damned if you do and damned if you don't. I guess when I date, in 2087, I just want to go out and have fun. I do not want the dude to be calculating how much my wine was per sip or sizing me up for matrimony within his 30 day trial (see the other thread) to determine if I am the woman he is going to spend the rest of his life with, if dating is that way then what will the relationship be like? I guess we expire after 30 Days LOL and they do not need longer to see if we are long term material.


----------



## Deejo

*Re: Re: Dating after divorce - expectations*



2galsmom said:


> I knew I was not ready for dating and now that I have lurked in this thread the deal is sealed. I swear, all this worrying about how much money is spent on the date? Forget it. This did not occur before I got married and now I have to see who reaches for their wallet, who does not?
> 
> hope4family you are YOUNG! Congratulations do not worry, you have sooooo much time! Something will come your way.
> 
> It seems with us older ones we are reduced to 1) coffee to eliminate liars and hideous repulsive trolls. Pass that? On to step 2) Dinner or something at a mutually cost effective locale. 3) Test at step 2 - who pays? Split it? Yes or no, pass or fail. 4) Sex - really? What if I don't want it as I have trust issues after step 3 and the pressure?
> 
> You all go have fun and tell me how it goes while I sort out the rest of my life. I have one piece of advice, if he takes you to Burger King AND has a coupon or sends you only a half dozen roses DUMP HIM!


Sometimes I skip right to 4. Ya'know ... change things up.


----------



## 2galsmom

Deejo said:


> Sometimes I skip right to 4. Ya'know ... change things up.


Yes. I am sure you do, and please, stay classy.


----------



## CEL

Jellybeans said:


> So men, if you go on a date with a hot lady and you pay for most things and she offers to buy you a drink later, do you say no or yes?



I would say yes. So here is my take if I go on a date I take it as a understanding that I pay. It is the way I was raised so if I take a girl on a date whether it is my invite or hers I pay. However if she wants to treat me to a drink or even dinner then I say yes as I understand it is her declaring her independence. If she is gracious enough to allow my old fashioned ways I am strong enough to bow to her needs as well. It is a dance of relationships the feeling of not being in someones debt and yet still respecting the others needs.


----------



## 2galsmom

I will be brave here, every guy I dated that wanted me to pay for him or go half-sies was a nightmare in the end. NIGHTMARE.


One person buying dinner and then the other buying a drink later is somehow, different. 

Don't ask me. :scratchhead:

But it is.

And you know what, I still think there are issues if the woman makes more than the man. Shouldn't be, but for many there are.


----------



## angstire

FeministInPink said:


> I haven't actually been out dating yet, but where are you going that you're dropping that much money on a first date? Since my STBXH left, I'm living on a Mickey D's budget. I would never expext a guy to drop that much money on a first date, if only because I could never afford to reciprocate. (I work in education in a very expensive city.) I'm more interested in doing something fun and interesting, and getting to know him, than how much money a guy spends. Save the expensive date for a special occasion. Is that unrealistic?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Totally realistic. I was just using round numbers. A coffee or a couple beers are a good first date. The first date I bought, went from bloody marys to brunch and the final bill was ~$50. It was supposed to become a meal, but we were having fun, so it did.


----------



## angstire

FeministInPink said:


> I'm quite curious to get some feedback as well. The last time I "dated" I was 22; I'm 34 now, and it's clearly a different ball game, but I don't know the rules! One of the things that keeps me on the bench is that I don't know the rules. It took me forever to learn them the first time around, so I need some tutelage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Part of the deal is that there are different rules for dating and being divorced, probably with kids and older (30s, 40s, 50s, etc.).

It's more difficult to get together, due to custody schedules, so you need to be more picky about who you see. I've noticed that moving from online chatting (if you're doing match) goes to a first coffee date FAST, so you can check each other out. 

Online profiles and IMing are fine, but men and women want to hear the voice, see the face, check out the nervousness, etc. It feels like an interview, but I'm pretty good at interviewing, so it's fun. But there is an element of pressure.


----------



## angstire

CEL said:


> I would say yes. So here is my take if I go on a date I take it as a understanding that I pay. It is the way I was raised so if I take a girl on a date whether it is my invite or hers I pay. However if she wants to treat me to a drink or even dinner then I say yes as I understand it is her declaring her independence. If she is gracious enough to allow my old fashioned ways I am strong enough to bow to her needs as well. It is a dance of relationships the feeling of not being in someones debt and yet still respecting the others needs.


Since that's what you prefer, great that it works for you. 

But with the multi-dating mentioned, which I agree with so I don't get tied up emotionally in one woman before I'm ready, that would be a route to spending grocery money on dating. I just can't afford to be the only one paying. And I don't think that a woman who expects me to pay for everything is someone I want to be with on a longer term basis. I'm not looking for marriage, but I am considering what expectation behaviors now will look like a year or two from now.

This is a great thread by the way.


----------



## angelpixie

Well, just like we did a few months ago in the Singles of TAM thread, should we clarify 'first date' and 'first meet' (the term used there)? On first meets I've been on, I've paid, the guy's paid, we went halfsies, and we just talked and didn't buy anything. None of them involved dinner. I think the economics of divorce make this a better way to start things. I can't imagine paying for full-out dinners, or even a movie and drinks afterward or something like that, every time you meet someone new. 

I also wonder if there are other factors involved, such as regional (Angstire, I had to laugh at your "I got, no I got it, no I'll pay, no I won't let you pay I'll pay, etc." I could almost hear the accent, too, lol), income level, age, cultural, etc. I'm kind of old-fashioned, too, in that I was taught that if you expect the guy to pay, he'll expect 'something' in return. And I think for some guys that's still true. I don't want to wait to find out if the guy I'm just meeting is like that or not, so I only let him pay if it's something small on a first meet. 

And man, 'multi-dating'? I don't know how you all find time! Uni-dating is difficult enough with my schedule, lol.


----------



## 2galsmom

Not interested in a multi-dater. I say, if you enjoy "dating" good for you, multidate all you want! But not me, what if I get emotionally attached? Why you will come to say to me, I told you I was a multi-dater! I told you the score! No thanks. I too do not have time for that.


----------



## Jellybeans

FeministInPink said:


> Save the expensive date for a special occasion. Is that unrealistic?


My thinking is that if someone invites me to a nice/expensive place for a dinner date, and I like him, I am going to say yes. That is how I roll. If I don't like him, I wouldn't go anywhere with him. No point in wasting time.



2galsmom said:


> It seems with us older ones we are reduced to 1) coffee to eliminate liars and hideous repulsive trolls.


Made me laugh. :rofl:



FeministInPink said:


> I'm quite curious to get some feedback as well. The last time I "dated" I was 22; I'm 34 now, and it's clearly a different ball game, but I don't know the rules!


Hehe. I can sort of relate to this. I spent my entire 20s with my exH (til 30) and am thirty-two now so it's a different world for dating. There is TEXTING now which we didn't do a whole lot when we first met (ex and I). Now ti seems some relationships are all on text! WTF.


----------



## Jellybeans

And what if a guy tells you he doesn't expect you to pay and pays first? Is it wrong if you just don't. 

Eh. So many rules.


----------



## 2galsmom

Jellybeans said:


> And what if a guy tells you he doesn't expect you to pay and pays first? Is it wrong if you just don't.
> 
> Eh. So many rules.


If he wants to pay let him! Be good to yourself and find a man who is good to you!


----------



## Jellybeans

Preach!


----------



## Jellybeans

To be honest, I have not been out with many men who wanted me to pay or wanted to go halfsies.


----------



## hope4family

2galsmom said:


> I knew I was not ready for dating and now that I have lurked in this thread the deal is sealed. I swear, all this worrying about how much money is spent on the date? Forget it. This did not occur before I got married and now I have to see who reaches for their wallet, who does not?
> 
> hope4family you are YOUNG! Congratulations do not worry, you have sooooo much time! Something will come your way.
> 
> It seems with us older ones we are reduced to 1) coffee to eliminate liars and hideous repulsive trolls. Pass that? On to step 2) Dinner or something at a mutually cost effective locale. 3) Test at step 2 - who pays? Split it? Yes or no, pass or fail. 4) Sex - really? What if I don't want it as I have trust issues after step 3 and the pressure?
> 
> You all go have fun and tell me how it goes while I sort out the rest of my life. I have one piece of advice, if he takes you to Burger King AND has a coupon or sends you only a half dozen roses DUMP HIM!


First off, thanks. I feel young. But more importantly I know I have a lot to offer. Even to a 30 something. 

I can't begin to explain how lost the dating world feels. Most of the 20 somethings I hang out with are on the younger end of 20. As much as age shouldn't be a factor. To me, it is. 

Now I've had some interested 30 somethings. But I always seem to lose some mystique when they find out my age. *shrugs*. 

I'm not in a rush to make something happen. I really at this point, want someone who can take the journey of life with me. I do miss intimacy (a nice word for relationship style sex), because it's been longer then a year, and I've turned down offers along the way. So to a small extent, I think I earned the right to say that. 

I have been considering the online dating game. Is that the best way to go for single parents?


----------



## Jellybeans

hope4family said:


> Now I've had some interested 30 somethings. But I always seem to lose some mystique when they find out my age. *shrugs*.


What do you mean by that?

There is no "best way" to go for single parents. Just do what you like.


----------



## death and taxes

Jellybeans said:


> And what if a guy tells you he doesn't expect you to pay and pays first? Is it wrong if you just don't.
> 
> Eh. So many rules.


Rule #1 for me is have fun. The rest is just crazy stuff. Who pays this. What kind of first date. So laughable that all this stuff has built up into our societal norms. 

I make a bit more than the gf that I wrote about at the beginning of this thread. And I treat her most of the time. Sometime she insists on paying, and like a good gentleman, I won't stop her. I think she gets her feelings hurt when she insists on paying but I still treat. So I have learned to just go with the flow.

I've been working on being cool and not caring too much right now. Letting her make some contact, etc. And then really listen to what she has to say. Hmm.


----------



## 2galsmom

Jellybeans said:


> To be honest, I have not been out with many men who wanted me to pay or wanted to go halfsies.


That is good!


----------



## hope4family

Jellybeans said:


> What do you mean by that?
> 
> There is no "best way" to go for single parents. Just do what you like.


I mean just that. Being younger then them, yet mature, is somehow dis-interesting. 

I can't tell you how many times I've hung out with one, and they say something that dates them. (usually some 80's song or culture reference) The classic "Yeah this was really big in our childhood, remember when?" Has killed me many many times. 

You could hear a pin drop.


----------



## angelpixie

It's not the end of the world, h4f. I was married to someone younger than me. We had a lot of things in common because we had a wide range of interests. We weren't just locked into things from our own 'eras'. I stayed current and he loved stuff from the 80s and we both loved really old movies, etc. Once you find people who have broader, more wide ranging fields of interest, age really won't matter as much. As long as you aren't narrow, too.


----------



## Jellybeans

hope4family said:


> I mean just that. Being younger then them, yet mature, is somehow dis-interesting.


Well then just keep looking if someone doesn't gel with you. 7 billion people on this lovely planet.

I want to date an older man. Like, more than just a couple of years.


----------



## angelpixie

Sign up for the online dating sites, Jelly. You'll get a lot of guys older than you responding. Trust me on this.


----------



## Jellybeans

angelpixie said:


> Sign up for the online dating sites, Jelly. You'll get a lot of guys older than you responding. Trust me on this.


Nope. I don't do dating sites, Angel so it will have to happen organically. 

I just am not into dating sites at all. Plus, they always remind me of exH using them to pick up women. LOL.


----------



## hope4family

angelpixie said:


> It's not the end of the world, h4f. I was married to someone younger than me. We had a lot of things in common because we had a wide range of interests. We weren't just locked into things from our own 'eras'. I stayed current and he loved stuff from the 80s and we both loved really old movies, etc. Once you find people who have broader, more wide ranging fields of interest, age really won't matter as much. As long as you aren't narrow, too.


Thanks. I don't see it as end of the world, it's me pointing out the whole "lost in this world of dating."


----------



## angstire

Jellybeans said:


> And what if a guy tells you he doesn't expect you to pay and pays first? Is it wrong if you just don't.
> 
> Eh. So many rules.


then that's totally ok.


----------



## hope4family

Jellybeans said:


> Well then just keep looking if someone doesn't gel with you. 7 billion people on this lovely planet.
> 
> I want to date an older man. Like, more than just a couple of years.


Well more like 3.5 About half of those got to be women right  

Yeah, I take the "move on approach." 

As I say to my guy friend. Don't find a 10, find a sane 8 lock it up.

Ya'll are hard to come by. Good for you.


----------



## angstire

2galsmom said:


> Not interested in a multi-dater. I say, if you enjoy "dating" good for you, multidate all you want! But not me, what if I get emotionally attached? Why you will come to say to me, I told you I was a multi-dater! I told you the score! No thanks. I too do not have time for that.


Isn't that the risk we run dating though? At some point, one person will have to put themselves out there and say, I like you, I don't want to see anyone else and I don't want you too either. Usually, when that convo happens, both parties are pretty sure the other is ready for that.

I still think multi-dates are a good idea until I'm ready to commit to exclusive. For me, that works.


----------



## 2galsmom

No way will I do dating sites, now here is one of the weird reasons why, and this is coming from me but it has been 44 years in the making . . . I am very pretty.

So, I know someone will show up for the coffee screening unless they prefer blondes or readheads but I cannot take any more liars or psychos, again 44 years in the making.

That is nice deathandtaxes. I think it is fine, moreover great if you have been dating for a while and she demands to pay once in a while. It shows she respects you and is not taking you for granted.


----------



## lenzi

Jellybeans said:


> Nope. I don't do dating sites, Angel so it will have to happen organically.
> 
> I just am not into dating sites at all. Plus, they always remind me of exH using them to pick up women. LOL.


You don't use dating sites because your husband used them to pick up women? I bet your husband also used a phone to talk to these woman too, and a car to go meet them. 

Do you feel the same way about phones and cars?


----------



## angstire

Dating by waiting for someone to find you in IRL is ok, but I'm busy with work, kids, etc. People on dating sites are looking to date, so it bypasses the difficult convo in the grocery store that is more angst than connection.


----------



## 2galsmom

lenzi said:


> You don't use dating sites because your husband used them to pick up women? I bet your husband also used a phone to talk to these woman too, and a car to go meet them.
> 
> Do you feel the same way about phones and cars?


Well that is a valid point lenzi.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Out of curiosity I check the ole match.com site to see what's up... you have to pay up front now before even seeing who looked at your profile; that's new. But as I'm browsing the shelves, I see a username of a guy who's user name was "likeslicking51" or some such similar name and I laughed thinking "Really?!? That's what he thinks is going to catch the right woman?" 

I mean, sure that's a great skill but I have to TALK to the guy - there has to be more to him than THAT. And since that was his age, all I could think of was what a letcherous dumbazz he was.


----------



## Garry2012

Online is hard because even if you are legit and sound like a good catch, the man/woman looking at you doesnt believe it because they have been scammed so much...i think they just pass over. All the women im not attracted to hit on me, and all the ones i want wont answer a simple hello. oh well...it give me something to do, and I am not THAT focused anyway...if it happens so be it.


----------



## Jellybeans

2galsmom said:


> No way will I do dating sites, now here is one of the weird reasons why, and this is coming from me but it has been 44 years in the making . . . I am very pretty.


:smthumbup: Love this. 



lenzi said:


> You don't use dating sites because your husband used them to pick up women? I bet your husband also used a phone to talk to these woman too, and a car to go meet them.
> 
> Do you feel the same way about phones and cars?


I don't NOT use them because of exH. I said they REMIND me of him using them to pick up women. I simply don't use them because I don't like them, am not into them and that is all right with me. 



EnjoliWoman said:


> But as I'm browsing the shelves, I see a username of a guy who's user name was "likeslicking51" or some such similar name and I laughed thinking "Really?!? That's what he thinks is going to catch the right woman?"
> .


Hey, you never know. A woman named "LikesToBeLicked" could respond to him. Better to be honest frm the get-go. :rofl:

But yeah I hear ya--I'd never respond to that guy if I were on dating sites. LOL


----------



## angelpixie

EnjoliWoman said:


> Out of curiosity I check the ole match.com site to see what's up... you have to pay up front now before even seeing who looked at your profile; that's new. But as I'm browsing the shelves, I see a username of a guy who's user name was "likeslicking51" or some such similar name and I laughed thinking "Really?!? That's what he thinks is going to catch the right woman?"
> 
> I mean, sure that's a great skill but I have to TALK to the guy - there has to be more to him than THAT. And since that was his age, all I could think of was what a letcherous dumbazz he was.





Jellybeans said:


> Hey, you never know. A woman named "LikesToBeLicked" could respond to him. Better to be honest frm the get-go. :rofl:


Sounds like a match made in, well not heaven exactly, but _some_place. :rofl:


----------



## COGypsy

Jellybeans said:


> Well then just keep looking if someone doesn't gel with you. 7 billion people on this lovely planet.
> 
> I want to date an older man. Like, more than just a couple of years.


Too bad you're not in Colorado. I can think of at least half a dozen places where the silverbacks hang out. Bar crawl!!!!


----------



## Garry2012

some are free, some you pay


----------



## angelpixie

And many times, you get what you pay for.


----------



## 2galsmom

Well I can meet liars for free. I suppose I can meet honest men for free as well. I am not criticizing anyone's choice to subscribe to these services. I am just not that motivated to date so I shall save my money.


----------



## Garry2012

You have to sift throught the vermin just like in real life. Its another medium...but it has its good and bad points.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Yup, always good and bad. But the free ones attract more cheating people, more people looking for one night stands (and 3-somes as I was recently solicited by the woman  ) and more cheap people. The paid sites sort of automatically weed out those who aren't serious and to an extent the cheaters so the spouse doesn't see the charge.


----------



## Deejo

*Re: Re: Dating after divorce - expectations*



Jellybeans said:


> I want to date an older man. Like, more than just a couple of years.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KSFlkSU5rE


----------



## sammy3

Jellybean , 

How are you ??? I havent been here in a looooong time. Just stopping by for a ck up ... Lolol. Hope your on a good path. 

~sammy


----------



## survivorwife

lenzi said:


> If you like her, give her the opportunity to address your concerns. Tell her "this one is on you".
> 
> If she pulls the good old "I'm an old fashioned girl and think the man should pay", then you can tell her you don't work that way and if she's unwilling to bend on that one then goodbye and good luck.


:iagree:

Excellent advise! I'm (sort of) "old-fashioned", in the sense that if the man asks me out, I anticipate that he will be paying for the meal. However, I am perfectly capable of picking up the tab. On the one hand, I would not think of overstepping his role as "provider" or implying that maybe he can't afford the dinner, so I would not automatically "assume" it's my turn unless he suggest it. On the other hand, if he made some comment that it was "my turn", I could easily smile, pull out my credit card and handle it graciously. So I appreciate your suggestion.


----------



## Jellybeans

COGypsy said:


> Too bad you're not in Colorado. I can think of at least half a dozen places where the silverbacks hang out. Bar crawl!!!!


Well if I am ever that way, I will call ya. Lol.



angelpixie said:


> And many times, you get what you pay for.


:rofl:



Deejo said:


> Anchorman - Ron Burgundy pickup attempt - YouTube


"I wanna be on you!" Love it.



sammy3 said:


> Jellybean ,
> 
> How are you ??? I havent been here in a looooong time. Just stopping by for a ck up ... Lolol. Hope your on a good path.
> 
> ~sammy


I have been great! Very busy and excited for the fall. Hope you are doing awesome, Sam!


----------



## sammy3

Jb ...Nah.... Still struggling... Almost 2.5 since hubs affair... Life never been right yet, it's a long road ...

~sammy


----------



## Hardtohandle

2galsmom said:


> I will be brave here, every guy I dated that wanted me to pay for him or go half-sies was a nightmare in the end. NIGHTMARE.
> 
> 
> One person buying dinner and then the other buying a drink later is somehow, different.
> 
> Don't ask me. :scratchhead:
> 
> But it is.
> 
> And you know what, I still think there are issues if the woman makes more than the man. Shouldn't be, but for many there are.


I don't know 2GM, I took a date to an egyptian restaurant. It was really nice. The meal was a fixed price. You sit at a round table and it has a curtain for privacy. 

But here is the deal. I bought 2 drinks before the table was set up. 2 mixed drinks 32 dollars.. My bill for the night was 300 dollars and a tip of of 30 dollars. 80% of the bill was bar bill. 

So I think drinks depends on the place.

I didn't have to spend that money to get lucky. I already got a piece and we were dating..


----------



## Hardtohandle

Jellybean

I am many things and might have many issues, but I could never expect a woman to pay half or pay until we are committed to each other. When I sit down with a woman and we say look I want to be with you exclusively and she does as well, then I think we can consider splitting the bills or having dinner in together.. More of a couples type of thing. 

I would rather save my money with my GF and go on a vacation with our kids eventually then keep spending money on dinner dates. 

Like feminpink I live in a equally expensive city.. I would have to say more expensive than D.C. 

But if I am going to multidate I will have to learn not to keep spending so much. Spending 100 to 200 a date does add up at the end of the month.. 

I tell you its just amazing how men and women in our situations run the gambit of different attitudes. Some want to go ballz out and spend tons of money because they never did with the Ex or never had their Ex spend on them and then you have extremely frugal people. 

I would trade in all my dates for honestly one nice simple woman.. I just want one semi sane person


----------



## death and taxes

It's funny watching where this thread has gone. 

I wanted to update y'all on what's going on. I have been practicing being cool with the lady. Taking her at face value and giving space. Last night I text her around 5pm asking if she had plans, if she wanted to hang out, watch a movie, etc. She doesn't respond until 8pm saying 'sorry missed your text' or something. By that time I am out with one of my good friends at a local drinking hole. I respond back 'hi'. then a few minutes later she responds with a short message just saying that she's been on the phone and helping her kids with school and then asked how's my night. I'm talking with my friend and the next thing I know I look down at my phone forty minutes later and I have a missed call and a few texts. 

She was asking if I was giving her the cold shoulder or silent treatment. And then she huffily texts that she's just not up for this kind of stuff. (mind you - I tried calling three different nights earlier in the week and not one return call - but I was cool - I never accused her of anything or even brought it up) I text her I want to see her right then to talk in person. Stuff this serious shouldn't be done over a phone.

So we talk for about two hours. Talk about a lot of things. And one really important thing I ask her is what she wants. As in what she wants out of the relationship. The best I can get out of her is 'I don't know'. 

We're supposed to go out tonight but I don't know if it's gonna happen. I just don't think she's in it.


----------



## Jellybeans

sammy3 said:


> Jb ...Nah.... Still struggling... Almost 2.5 since hubs affair... Life never been right yet, it's a long road ...
> 
> ~sammy


Sending you a great big hug, Sammy! Know that sometimes it seems like the dark lasts awhile but it can only mean better days are waiting for you! :smthumbup:



Hardtohandle said:


> I tell you its just amazing how men and women in our situations run the gambit of different attitudes.
> 
> I would trade in all my dates for honestly one nice simple woman.. I just want one semi sane person


True, true. It is funny how we all have different opinions on this subject. I say, _Do whatcha like,_ like the Tupac song said. Lol.


----------



## death and taxes

Had a late lunch. end result = done.

it's beer time y'all


----------



## Hardtohandle

death and taxes said:


> It's funny watching where this thread has gone.
> 
> I wanted to update y'all on what's going on. I have been practicing being cool with the lady. Taking her at face value and giving space. Last night I text her around 5pm asking if she had plans, if she wanted to hang out, watch a movie, etc. She doesn't respond until 8pm saying 'sorry missed your text' or something. By that time I am out with one of my good friends at a local drinking hole. I respond back 'hi'. then a few minutes later she responds with a short message just saying that she's been on the phone and helping her kids with school and then asked how's my night. I'm talking with my friend and the next thing I know I look down at my phone forty minutes later and I have a missed call and a few texts.
> 
> She was asking if I was giving her the cold shoulder or silent treatment. And then she huffily texts that she's just not up for this kind of stuff. (mind you - I tried calling three different nights earlier in the week and not one return call - but I was cool - I never accused her of anything or even brought it up) I text her I want to see her right then to talk in person. Stuff this serious shouldn't be done over a phone.
> 
> So we talk for about two hours. Talk about a lot of things. And one really important thing I ask her is what she wants. As in what she wants out of the relationship. The best I can get out of her is 'I don't know'.
> 
> We're supposed to go out tonight but I don't know if it's gonna happen. I just don't think she's in it.


I had a pretty much similar situation.. I guess in her mind since you don't have kids, you have all the time in the world to wait around for her calls and text..


----------



## death and taxes

Hardtohandle said:


> I had a pretty much similar situation.. I guess in her mind since you don't have kids, you have all the time in the world to wait around for her calls and text..


It went south at lunch. I was trying to set up some plans sometime. I would ask and she would say she has plans with this good friend of her's. Her closest friend, this woman. Then I asked about doing something else a different time. Guess what? Plans again! So then she starts calling me obsessive because I want to make plans with her?!? 

I'm gonna go have some beers with one of my buds tonight. Gonna forget this mess. And hopefully realize I was spared utter craziness.


----------



## CEL

death and taxes said:


> It went south at lunch. I was trying to set up some plans sometime. I would ask and she would say she has plans with this good friend of her's. Her closest friend, this woman. Then I asked about doing something else a different time. Guess what? Plans again! So then she starts calling me obsessive because I want to make plans with her?!?
> 
> I'm gonna go have some beers with one of my buds tonight. Gonna forget this mess. And hopefully realize I was spared utter craziness.



Simple brother all can be explained with a simple....she is just not that into you. No worries plenty of women out there.


----------



## Hardtohandle

CEL said:


> Simple brother all can be explained with a simple....she is just not that into you. No worries plenty of women out there.


I don't know about that.. 

I think he just might have been too much and then not enough. Basically she is looking for that man that is just needy enough not to be annoying.. At least in her mind.. 

I honestly feel its the craziness that is brought about after divorce. You know for as many people who are here talking about this stuff and venting and going to therapy and reading books about this stuff. 

There are TONS of men and woman who just take the divorce and let it tear them up inside and out.. They walk away broken shells of their former selves. 

Then we come along and see the insanity because we lived it, but we were smart enough to get off that hamster wheel. 

For some I think they believe that the person they are with is genuinely a nice person and we can relate to how they feel Some believe if I stick it out I know that eventually this person will calm down and realize they have some issues and I am not the enemy. . 

But for some it doesn't, as a matter of fact they jump into the dating game and get burnt yet again once or twice and now they have sworn off the opposite sex forever or at least enough not to let anyone else get close to them emotionally again.. 

Then you get what D&T went through. I went through something similar. I was just stupid in the beginning to think I could fix her issues. Lessons learned in life.


----------



## Deejo

What about using a coupon??


----------



## Deejo

No worries D&T. You cant make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

Think of your early dating experiences as a living laboratory.


----------



## death and taxes

I went out and had a helluva time!!

If anybody is being controlling, I suspect it may be this woman's really good friend. This lady is 50 years old, never been married, never really any serious boyfriends. Guess who's been spending more time with my now ex-gf than I did in the past month? yup - this lady. And my ex-gf calls me controlling? She wouldn't turn down an invite by this good friend to come over or go out. And a mutual friend has suspected this lady can get really jealous because she doesn't have a bf. 

That's really what I hit up against right before we broke up. Right before the ex-gf ended it. I wanted to make plans with her. I Wanted to see her Saturday night after this even we were supposed to go to. I asked 'do you have plans after? Do you want to do something?'. And she responds that that friend invited her over after the event (it's the friend's event, btw). I ask if I am invited (you know - cuz good friends would invite the couple over) and that causes more freak out. 

Then I talk about going hiking sometime and if the now ex-gf would want to go sometime. She says sure. I say I'm gonna go Sunday morning. I didn't mentioned ex-gf going, just that I'm going. First thing out of ex-gf mouth is that this good friend invited her out Sunday to go somewhere. 

It's at this point where I think she goes off the rails. She starts accusing me of being obsessive about wanting to make plans. I say something to the effect of isn't that what couples do? We make plans to go out or hang out? She says she feels like she's being controlled. Which I think is really frakked cuz it appears from my view that her friend is being entirely controlling. 

messed up older single woman friend. I swear. I really think that's where the problem lay. That and my ex-gf is a wee bit nutso. but what do I know?


----------



## FeministInPink

Deejo said:


> What about using a coupon??


I think that's a VERY fine line. If somebody asked me out, and on the first date he used a coupon, that would strike me as being cheap. Sure, take me to a cool, inexpensive ethnic restaurant, and I'm all over it. But a coupon on the first date would send me running for the hills.

However, if after a few times out, he (or I) said, "I got this Groupon/Living Social deal, let's use it," I would be OK with that. I use them all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angelpixie

FeministInPink said:


> I think that's a VERY fine line. If somebody asked me out, and on the first date he used a coupon, that would strike me as being cheap. Sure, take me to a cool, inexpensive ethnic restaurant, and I'm all over it. But a coupon on the first date would send me running for the hills.
> 
> However, if after a few times out, he (or I) said, "I got this Groupon/Living Social deal, let's use it," I would be OK with that. I use them all the time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You might want to check this thread out, FiP:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/107497-coupon-first-date.html


----------



## 2galsmom

The coupon saga is hilarious. I think FeministinPink summed up the situation nicely. Somehow, there is something different about a Groupon after a few times out . . .


----------



## FeministInPink

angelpixie said:


> You might want to check this thread out, FiP:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/107497-coupon-first-date.html


That's a great thread! Apparently, this is a real hot button issue.

For me, I grew up poor. We used coupons for EVERYTHING, and so for me that became a symbol of being broke. I use coupons all the time now, but it took me a long time to see that as a practice of frugality, thrift, and smart spending.

Conversely, my STBXH refused to use coupons, and got upset when he saw me using them. I would buy Groupons, and I would have to use them with friends, because he would refuse to go to any restaurant and use a coupon, and he would always tip like crazy. When we first met, he would just throw money around - money that he didn't have - and so he would always overdraft his bank account, so he had even less money. It wasn't until I took over his finances that he actually HAD any money.

So, I guess I now want something/one in-between these two extremes.


----------



## angelpixie

Wow, money can be such a power issue, can't it? 

I grew up in a household where we always had a lot of medical bills, and my parents never really recovered from a few layoffs during the economic problems of the late 70s. Very early 80s, they split and even though they were married over 20 years and my mom was a SAHM with health problems, she got no alimony. My dad filed just after I turned 18 so he didn't have to contribute anything for me, so only CS for my brother, which Dad wasn't always, ahem, timely with (before the days of garnishment). Coupons, sales, rebates, etc., were the only way we made it. We never used public assistance, and things were damned tough.

When ex and I were dating, we never had much money, but we knew that if we used a coupon, we could go to a nicer restaurant than if we didn't. I got him into using things like Priceline, deal sites on the web, etc. It got to be fun for us to see how much we could get for as little as possible, especially when we could get really nice gifts for people that we normally couldn't afford. 

After ex had his mental breakdown and no longer worked, I was back to using those extreme couponing skills from way back. It saved our bacon, pun intended. At first, Ex was very proud of what I could do, but then began to sabotage me, then to outright put me down for it, then eventually demanded I stop, even though our economic situation hadn't improved very much.

Now that we are split, I see that we have nearly the same income, but I have money in the bank, can take care of DS when he needs things, etc., and Ex is constantly broke, late on bills, etc. However, he's also taken multiple vacations, gotten a new wardrobe (and he doesn't shop thrift stores like I do), goes to an expensive hairstylist, etc. So be it. I'm happy to be free of the stress of trying to be sensible with money while living with someone who is financially irresponsible. Luckily, I don't have to resort to the extremes I had to in the past, but I still use coupons when I can.

I'm not a miser, I just figure if someone is going to give me a free little piece of paper that they will take as money and all I have to do it cut it out and give it to them, why the hell not? It allows me to do things and go places I couldn't otherwise. I'll save the real paper money for places that don't have coupons, lol.


----------



## FeministInPink

angelpixie said:


> Wow, money can be such a power issue, can't it?
> 
> I grew up in a household where we always had a lot of medical bills, and my parents never really recovered from a few layoffs during the economic problems of the late 70s. Very early 80s, they split and even though they were married over 20 years and my mom was a SAHM with health problems, she got no alimony. My dad filed just after I turned 18 so he didn't have to contribute anything for me, so only CS for my brother, which Dad wasn't always, ahem, timely with (before the days of garnishment). Coupons, sales, rebates, etc., were the only way we made it. We never used public assistance, and things were damned tough.
> 
> When ex and I were dating, we never had much money, but we knew that if we used a coupon, we could go to a nicer restaurant than if we didn't. I got him into using things like Priceline, deal sites on the web, etc. It got to be fun for us to see how much we could get for as little as possible, especially when we could get really nice gifts for people that we normally couldn't afford.
> 
> After ex had his mental breakdown and no longer worked, I was back to using those extreme couponing skills from way back. It saved our bacon, pun intended. At first, Ex was very proud of what I could do, but then began to sabotage me, then to outright put me down for it, then eventually demanded I stop, even though our economic situation hadn't improved very much.
> 
> Now that we are split, I see that we have nearly the same income, but I have money in the bank, can take care of DS when he needs things, etc., and Ex is constantly broke, late on bills, etc. However, he's also taken multiple vacations, gotten a new wardrobe (and he doesn't shop thrift stores like I do), goes to an expensive hairstylist, etc. So be it. I'm happy to be free of the stress of trying to be sensible with money while living with someone who is financially irresponsible. Luckily, I don't have to resort to the extremes I had to in the past, but I still use coupons when I can.
> 
> I'm not a miser, I just figure if someone is going to give me a free little piece of paper that they will take as money and all I have to do it cut it out and give it to them, why the hell not? It allows me to do things and go places I couldn't otherwise. I'll save the real paper money for places that don't have coupons, lol.


We are similar in a lot of ways... my STBXH did ridicule me a bit for my couponing ways, and I did let that get to me some (clearly). He managed to break me of some of my GOOD frugal habits (even though he clearly benefited from them), so I'm having to re-learn some of them. I'm getting by now on much less, now that I'm on my own -- it's still a struggle sometimes, but it's easier now than it was 5 or 6 months ago.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Regarding money

I dated a woman who never asked about the money I spent.. I didn't complain.. But I can say in one month I might have spent 700 dollars in dating her easily.. 

I dated this other woman and the third date she wanted to cook me a dinner or talk me out instead of me spending money.. 

That made a very nice impression on me. Something the previous woman didn't do at all. 

Lessons learned in this dating game and OMG is it a game..


----------



## death and taxes

Hardtohandle said:


> Regarding money
> 
> I dated a woman who never asked about the money I spent.. I didn't complain.. But I can say in one month I might have spent 700 dollars in dating her easily..
> 
> I dated this other woman and the third date she wanted to cook me a dinner or talk me out instead of me spending money..
> 
> That made a very nice impression on me. Something the previous woman didn't do at all.
> 
> Lessons learned in this dating game and OMG is it a game..


:iagree: It is so easy to spend money dating. I know that when I'm seriously trying to date, that I have to budget for it. Spend less on other things and more on going out. 

A game for sure. But I don't regret it. If I wasn't up for it, I wouldn't try to date. I'm just happy I have the resources to be able to do so.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Hardtohandle said:


> Regarding money
> 
> I dated a woman who never asked about the money I spent.. I didn't complain.. But I can say in one month I might have spent 700 dollars in dating her easily..
> 
> I dated this other woman and the third date she wanted to cook me a dinner or talk me out instead of me spending money..
> 
> That made a very nice impression on me. Something the previous woman didn't do at all.
> 
> Lessons learned in this dating game and OMG is it a game..


Wow - that's a lot. When dating someone seriously the first few dates are on him but I usually offer to get the tip or if we wait to be seated I might buy the drinks at the bar. By about the third or fourth date I offer to cook dinner or go to his place to grill out and watch a movie in. I like going out but I understand it can get expensive. I'd rather go out to a very nice restaurant a couple times a month and stay in the rest vs. go out often to mediocre chains.

Cool little funky hole-in-the-wall places are neat, too - it shows he has some character. I'm all for just randomly popping in somewhere that looks interesting.


----------



## 2galsmom

I think $700 is A LOT of money and would make me as uncomfortable as a coupon, unless you are including a hotel room (and I am not asking for the details). And I my friend, have expensive taste.

Did you buy a bottle of expensive wine? :scratchhead:

No need to tell us.

No one here is against coupons, I think it is just the symbolism involved and in my experience it panned out to a GOOD BYE! In fact I can't say GOOD BYE fast enough. Likewise if we were just starting out I would feel bad about someone spending so much money! Would I "owe" that person? No, I don't want to feel like that!

A happy medium I think we are striving for here people.

After tonight I realize I could not possibly date during the week, my kids have too much homework unless he is going to spend 3 hours with us on word problems.


----------



## angstire

Hardtohandle said:


> Regarding money
> 
> I dated a woman who never asked about the money I spent.. I didn't complain.. But I can say in one month I might have spent 700 dollars in dating her easily..
> 
> I dated this other woman and the third date she wanted to cook me a dinner or talk me out instead of me spending money..
> 
> That made a very nice impression on me. Something the previous woman didn't do at all.
> 
> Lessons learned in this dating game and OMG is it a game..


It's nice when it moves to every other date is a dinner at home. easier on pocket book and easier to chat and spend time getting to know each other.


----------



## 2galsmom

LOL Hardtohandle, you spent that in a month I had to re-read it. I told you I had expensive taste, well that is entirely possible. We go get burritos at Chipotle and it costs $36!


----------



## FeministInPink

angstire said:


> It's nice when it moves to every other date is a dinner at home. easier on pocket book and easier to chat and spend time getting to know each other.


I also feel like the dinner at home thing is a little more intimate, too. And it's nice to cook for two, after cooking for one most of the time, right?

Especially if one/both of you are good cooks. I would like it specifically for the chance to try out new recipes


----------



## FeministInPink

2galsmom said:


> It is nice and I like to cook and I like people who eat. You laugh, but I know many people who neither cook nor eat. At least eat!


No, I DO know people like that! My aunt, whom I love dearly, is an incredibly picky eater, and she can't cook to save her life. I mean, she can't even make Jell-O. 

:rofl:

Learning to really cook is one of those things I want to work on now, for myself. My STBXH's attitude was this: "Why do you need to learn how to cook? I'm a chef, I can cook." And of course, he never cooked when he was home - all he ever wanted to do was order out. 

So I'm slowly teaching myself to cook, sort of. I'm actually pretty good, if I have a decent recipe to follow.


----------



## Jellybeans

Hardtohandle said:


> Lessons learned in this dating game *and OMG is it a game*.


Oh so gosh darn TRUE.



EnjoliWoman said:


> When dating someone seriously the first few dates are on him


But how do you know you are dating "seriously" if you just met him/began to see eachother? I am curious.



2galsmom said:


> IAnd I my friend, have expensive taste.


Love this. 



2galsmom said:


> After tonight I realize I could not possibly date during the week, my kids have too much homework unless he is going to spend 3 hours with us on word problems.


Oh I hear you. I also cannot date during the week. I don't have children but I work full-time and have class/lectures and it eats up most of my week. 



angstire said:


> It's nice when it moves to every other date is a dinner at home. easier on pocket book and easier to chat and spend time getting to know each other.


Agreed. Plus, it's a lot less formal, you feel comfortable and can relax on a totally different level instead of being "out" all the time.


----------



## Jellybeans

FeministInPink said:


> So I'm slowly teaching myself to cook, sort of. I'm actually pretty good, if I have a decent recipe to follow.


Dooo it. Make it your hobby!

My exH is an AMAZING cook so he loved to throw things together and would Shoo me away if I was in the kitchen in his "domain." BUT, when we separated I picked it up as a hobby and I freaking love it now. It's therapeutic and I love having friends/family over to eat meals. It's great.


----------



## angelpixie

That's actually one of the few things I miss about being married and all of us living together. I liked putting together a big meal for my family. Now it's just me 1/2 the time, and it doesn't seem worth the work, for one thing, and I end up with too much food, lol. When DS is with me, things are too busy for me to make involved from-scratch recipes.


----------



## hope4family

Jellybeans said:


> Dooo it. Make it your hobby!
> 
> My exH is an AMAZING cook so he loved to throw things together and would Shoo me away if I was in the kitchen in his "domain." BUT, when we separated I picked it up as a hobby and I freaking love it now. It's therapeutic and I love having friends/family over to eat meals. It's great.


Not only that. But all men love a decent cook. 

I got my go to meals. My current is Cuban Steak. It's a no thrills fancy duds meal that everyone loves thus far. 

I have a chicken broccoli cheesey/rice recipe i'm working on. 

I want to branch out and learn to do stuff like crapes, home made pasta sauce (I have this wicked idea for a Vodkah sauce, but can't afford the coinage for Vodkah right now.), I am still developing a Lemon Chicken recipe. 

My favorite easy/somewhat time consuming meal to make. 

Chopped Jalapeno Cheddar Brats over angel hair pasta (or of choice) with Red, Orange, Yellow bell peppers and a secret Cuban sauce. 

I'm currently waiting for my chicken to cook, so yeah i'm hungry.


----------



## FeministInPink

Jellybeans said:


> Dooo it. Make it your hobby!
> 
> My exH is an AMAZING cook so he loved to throw things together and would Shoo me away if I was in the kitchen in his "domain." BUT, when we separated I picked it up as a hobby and I freaking love it now. It's therapeutic and I love having friends/family over to eat meals. It's great.


I've thought about it! I already have a number of current/intended hobbies, such as:


reading
writing
playing piano
playing guitar
learning Italian
crafting (scrapbooking, beading, etc)

I can try to fit cooking in there, but it's already a little crammed. Plus, I need to work in adding exercise to my day, and I'm planning on getting started with some freelance editing to make some extra $$$. At this point, it's hard enough for me to get myself to pack lunches ahead of time!


----------



## FeministInPink

hope4family said:


> Not only that. But all men love a decent cook.


That's all well and good, but only if he's a decent cook as well. I don't want to be the one stuck cooking all the time because he can't. Just sayin.

I didn't get two degrees and a career so that I could come home and be expected to also cook dinner every night.


----------



## angelpixie

Crepes are easy, h4f!! Takes a little practice and a good pan that's not too heavy, but you will soon be impressing the ladehs with your mad skillz.


----------



## 2galsmom

Crepes are easy! You get a crepe pan from Williams Sonoma and the mix and THAT is all you need to do. Seriously, my children went to a French school for 7 years. They sell the mix at Williams Sonoma and sometimes I buy the Stonewall Kitchen mix on sale. The pan is not cheap but the crepes come out perfectly, slather on Nutella purchased in bulk and at a fantastic price at Costco and VIOLA! crepes galore.

I do think cooking is therapeutic, and it is nice if you have a crowd or person who appreciates it.


----------



## angelpixie

You don't even need a mix. It's a very simple recipe with ingredients you probably already have in your kitchen. Crepes are also fun because you can make them sweet or savory, depending on your filling.
Crepes Recipe : Alton Brown : Recipes : Food Network


----------



## 2galsmom

Ah that Alton Brown. Thank you for the reference Angelpixie. I guess I will have to try that, I do like the mix! Oddly I am having trouble with Bisquick. My kids like my homemade pancakes best, spoiled right! Well it isn't that much more difficult to make from scratch you just need more ingredients. For some reason all of a sudden the Bisquick ones are coming out too biscuit like, I wonder if they changed the mix.

At any rate I too miss cooking for the big family Angelpixie. When I moved from my house to my apartment I set the AllClad roaster that I used to roast the standing rib roast at Christmas on my kitchen floor, the pan took up 3/4 of my kitchen. I gave it to my brother-in-law. Oh well. 

Someday maybe again . . . I doubt it but you never know.


----------



## MEM2020

Death,
She sounds a bit off. 

And you aren't good at reading signals. You call her three times and she doesn't respond, and then you text her to see if she wants to go out that night. 

It is a bad idea to reach out to someone 4 times in a row. And then you get together for lunch, and don't let her make the next move. 

There was way to much 'chasing' of someone who was rejecting and deflecting and at times not even responding. That won't work well with any woman. 




QUOTE=death and taxes;4382738]It's funny watching where this thread has gone. 

I wanted to update y'all on what's going on. I have been practicing being cool with the lady. Taking her at face value and giving space. Last night I text her around 5pm asking if she had plans, if she wanted to hang out, watch a movie, etc. She doesn't respond until 8pm saying 'sorry missed your text' or something. By that time I am out with one of my good friends at a local drinking hole. I respond back 'hi'. then a few minutes later she responds with a short message just saying that she's been on the phone and helping her kids with school and then asked how's my night. I'm talking with my friend and the next thing I know I look down at my phone forty minutes later and I have a missed call and a few texts. 

She was asking if I was giving her the cold shoulder or silent treatment. And then she huffily texts that she's just not up for this kind of stuff. (mind you - I tried calling three different nights earlier in the week and not one return call - but I was cool - I never accused her of anything or even brought it up) I text her I want to see her right then to talk in person. Stuff this serious shouldn't be done over a phone.

So we talk for about two hours. Talk about a lot of things. And one really important thing I ask her is what she wants. As in what she wants out of the relationship. The best I can get out of her is 'I don't know'. 

We're supposed to go out tonight but I don't know if it's gonna happen. I just don't think she's in it.[/QUOTE]


----------



## MEM2020

Being generous with money is good - until it becomes toxic. 

If someone isn't interested in an activity/sport by the third date, that would turn me off. Mini golf, tennis, racquetball, etc.



Hardtohandle said:


> Regarding money
> 
> I dated a woman who never asked about the money I spent.. I didn't complain.. But I can say in one month I might have spent 700 dollars in dating her easily..
> 
> I dated this other woman and the third date she wanted to cook me a dinner or talk me out instead of me spending money..
> 
> That made a very nice impression on me. Something the previous woman didn't do at all.
> 
> Lessons learned in this dating game and OMG is it a game..


----------



## 2galsmom

Well I think it is nice you found a woman you are so interested in Death. She was honest, she doesn't know. She is not encouraging you but she is not discouraging you, she is enjoying your attention and keeping you there until she decides your fate, which she may never decide so be warned.

As I do not post with her I will advise you on what looks like what is most healthy for you, and that is to leave her alone. If she pulls the 'you have a problem, you have not texted me, you are giving me the cold shoulder routine again' then say good-bye. If what you say is true, you have been making the effort, then you should not tolerate someone turning it around on you for NOT making an effort! Clear as mud?

Let her make a polite and genuine effort with no abuse or twisting of emotions.


I agree with MEM11363.

When crepe mix goes on sale I will send you one. Nutella?


----------



## 2galsmom

MEM11363 said:


> Being generous with money is good - until it becomes toxic.
> 
> If someone isn't interested in an activity/sport by the third date, that would turn me off. Mini golf, tennis, racquetball, etc.


I agree again, now I cannot make this a habit. Say you are all for Sarah Palin or something.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> You don't even need a mix. It's a very simple recipe with ingredients you probably already have in your kitchen. Crepes are also fun because you can make them sweet or savory, depending on your filling.
> Crepes Recipe : Alton Brown : Recipes : Food Network


No kidding.

Mix Shmix. Make them from scratch. I use the Frugal Gourmet recipe... I'll look it up for you guys when I get home.

They're surprisingly easy. Homemade crepes was the closer for the my second date with FYG. 

Pancakes, too. I'll never understand why people use pancake mix. So, I'll share with all of you my Dad's recipe from memory.

1 cup flour, 1 tablespoon (brown) sugar, 1 tablespoon baking powder, 1/4 teaspoon salt, 1 cup milk, 1 egg, 3 tablespoons oil. Optional: Vanilla extract and/or cinnamon to taste.

Mix the wet stuff. Mix the dry stuff. Mix the wet stuff with the dry stuff. Pancake batter. Cook them on a hot skillet in the usual manner for pancakes. Make about a half dozen slightly-smaller-than-plate-sized pancakes.

I've been using it for 20 years, and he used it for 20 years before me. If you sing while you cook them, they'll never fail. 

EDIT: Found the FG's crepe recipe online...

*Basic Crepes*

2 eggs at room temperature
3/4 c milk
2/3 c beer
1 cup flour
1/4 t salt
2 T peanut oil

Place the eggs, milk, and beer in a blender, and then the flour and salt. Blend for 30 seconds, and then scrape down the sides of the blender. Blend for 1 minute. Cover, and refrigerate for at least 2 hours.

Fry the crepes in a saute pan oiled lightly with the peanut oil over medium heat. Pour in 1/4 cup portions. Tip and turn the pan until the batter covers the bottom. Cook until the top appears dry and the bottom has just begun to brown. Turn (or if you're brave, flip sans utensil) the crepe with a rubber spatula and brown the other side very briefly. It should have only little specks of brown. Stack with a piece of wax paper or parchment between each. Makes approx 12.


----------



## Jellybeans

Ok. This thread is making me hungry.



angelpixie said:


> That's actually one of the few things I miss about being married and all of us living together. I liked putting together a big meal for my family. Now it's just me 1/2 the time, and it doesn't seem worth the work, for one thing, and I end up with too much food, lol. When DS is with me, things are too busy for me to make involved from-scratch recipes.


Invite your friends/colleagues/relatives over for a meal one day.



hope4family said:


> Not only that. But all men love a decent cook.
> 
> I got my go to meals. My current is Cuban Steak. It's a no thrills fancy duds meal that everyone loves thus far.


Omg that sounds DIVINE!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## FeministInPink

angelpixie said:


> You don't even need a mix. It's a very simple recipe with ingredients you probably already have in your kitchen. Crepes are also fun because you can make them sweet or savory, depending on your filling.
> Crepes Recipe : Alton Brown : Recipes : Food Network


Alton Brown is THE BEST. For various Christmas/birthday gifts, I bought my STBXH all 3 editions of the Good Eats books, which are now packed up in the storage unit. Part of me want to go back to the storage unit and retrieve them (I'm still moving STBXH's stuff, piecemeal), partly because I think they would be a really good reference as I teach myself to cook, and also because I know he won't realize they're gone for possibly YEARS. And b/c he doesn't really seem to care about getting any of his stuff back anyway.


----------



## Jellybeans

Alton Brown is kind of sexy, IMO.


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> Alton Brown is kind of sexy, IMO.


It's the bow tie... Bow ties are cool.


----------



## Jellybeans

Yes. Plus, I have a bit of a thing for nerds.


----------



## FeministInPink

Pbartender said:


> It's the bow tie... Bow ties are cool.


IF it's real and the man knows how to tie it. Clip-on bow ties are such a turn-off.


----------



## MEM2020

2Galsmom,
LMAO.

If you haven't seen the movie 'Game Change', it is worth watching. 





2galsmom said:


> I agree again, now I cannot make this a habit. Say you are all for Sarah Palin or something.


----------



## FeministInPink

MEM11363 said:


> 2Galsmom,
> LMAO.
> 
> If you haven't seen the movie 'Game Change', it is worth watching.


:iagree:


----------



## angstire

FeministInPink said:


> Alton Brown is THE BEST. For various Christmas/birthday gifts, I bought my STBXH all 3 editions of the Good Eats books, which are now packed up in the storage unit. Part of me want to go back to the storage unit and retrieve them (I'm still moving STBXH's stuff, piecemeal), partly because I think they would be a really good reference as I teach myself to cook, and also because I know he won't realize they're gone for possibly YEARS. And b/c he doesn't really seem to care about getting any of his stuff back anyway.


Go get them. Now. Possession, 9/10, you know.


----------



## Ceegee

EnjoliWoman said:


> Out of curiosity I check the ole match.com site to see what's up... you have to pay up front now before even seeing who looked at your profile; that's new. But as I'm browsing the shelves, I see a username of a guy who's user name was "likeslicking51" or some such similar name and I laughed thinking "Really?!? That's what he thinks is going to catch the right woman?"
> 
> I mean, sure that's a great skill but I have to TALK to the guy - there has to be more to him than THAT. And since that was his age, all I could think of was what a letcherous dumbazz he was.


Still catching up on this thread but I saw this, laughed out loud and had to comment.

I have not and will not use online dating. But...I have many women friends that do. These are educated, successful women. They are divorced mothers with children from say 5-16. 

These women "multi-date". They hook-up for sex. I just laugh at them because they then wonder why none of these "relationships" turn long-term.

So, EW, you laugh at this guy and wonder how on earth he expects to get any dates. I'm sure he's doing just fine - he's getting all he can handle.


----------



## angstire

CG, do they know that they're only going to get hook-ups or are they truly confused? 

LTRs can develop from online dating, but treating Match or whatever like a candy store, with lots of flavors to sample, yields a hook-up experience.


----------



## angelpixie

Jellybeans said:


> Alton Brown is kind of sexy, IMO.





Pbartender said:


> It's the bow tie... Bow ties are cool.


The glasses. It's the glasses. 



Jellybeans said:


> Yes. Plus, I have a bit of a thing for nerds.


Especially nerds who are funny. 



angstire said:


> Go get them. Now. Possession, 9/10, you know.


Grab first. Wait til he asks where they are. If you're worried he'll want them, scan & save or copy your favorite recipes right away.


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> No kidding.
> 
> Mix Shmix. Make them from scratch. I use the Frugal Gourmet recipe... I'll look it up for you guys when I get home.
> 
> They're surprisingly easy. Homemade crepes was the closer for the my second date with FYG.


Woulda sealed the deal for me. 



Pbartender said:


> Pancakes, too. I'll never understand why people use pancake mix. So, I'll share with all of you my Dad's recipe from memory.
> 
> 1 cup flour, 1 tablespoon (brown) sugar, 1 tablespoon baking powder, 1/4 teaspoon salt, 1 cup milk, 1 egg, 3 tablespoons oil. *Optional: Vanilla extract and/or cinnamon to taste.*


Not optional at the Angelpixie Dream House. Always add one or both to my pancakes and French toast (another favorite thing to make - so many cool artisan breads to try!)





Pbartender said:


> I've been using it for 20 years, and he used it for 20 years before me. If you sing while you cook them, they'll never fail.


That's cute. So, that begs the question: What do you sing? 



Pbartender said:


> EDIT: Found the FG's crepe recipe online...
> 
> *Basic Crepes*
> 
> 2 eggs at room temperature
> 3/4 c milk
> *2/3 c beer*
> 1 cup flour
> 1/4 t salt
> 2 T peanut oil
> 
> Place the eggs, milk, and beer in a blender, and then the flour and salt. Blend for 30 seconds, and then scrape down the sides of the blender. Blend for 1 minute. Cover, and refrigerate for at least 2 hours.
> 
> Fry the crepes in a saute pan oiled lightly with the peanut oil over medium heat. Pour in 1/4 cup portions. Tip and turn the pan until the batter covers the bottom. Cook until the top appears dry and the bottom has just begun to brown. Turn (or if you're brave, flip sans utensil) the crepe with a rubber spatula and brown the other side very briefly. It should have only little specks of brown. Stack with a piece of wax paper or parchment between each. Makes approx 12.



Beer?! Really? That threw me for a loop. What kind -- does it add much flavor to the batter? If it's to make the batter lighter, couldn't you just use a sparkling water?


All this talk of crepes reminds me of the short time I was able to be away at college. I had a dorm room to myself, and on Monday and Friday mornings, my first class wasn't til 9. So, I made crepes in my electric frying pan on my desk for my friends, lol. They supplied their own toppings, but I made the crepes. It was a lot of fun. We were all a little downtrodden when I got a late increase in my Work-study grant and was able to increase my hours at, where else, the campus library.


----------



## COGypsy

Jellybeans said:


> Alton Brown is kind of sexy, IMO.


He has a podcast now that comes out on nerdist.com on Fridays. It's become the highlight of my week--I check all morning to see if it's been posted yet. He talks about all things good in the world, food, cooking and Dr. Who!


----------



## COGypsy

angelpixie said:


> Woulda sealed the deal for me.
> 
> Beer?! Really? That threw me for a loop. What kind -- does it add much flavor to the batter? If it's to make the batter lighter, couldn't you just use a sparkling water?


Yep, several recipes use sparkling water instead and it would be more flavor neutral, I'd imagine. That recipe is a pinch of baking powder away from being my mother's beer batter recipe, actually. I think that Frugal Gourmet is just a savory-leaning party guy


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> That's cute. So, that begs the question: What do you sing?


Usually something like this...

Good mornin'!
So, good mornin', good mornin'!
Sunbeams will soon smile through,
Good mornin', good mornin', to you!

Or maybe this...

Good morning to you!
Good morning to you!
We're all in our places,
With bright, shining faces!
And this the way to start a new day!
*GOOD MORNING ANGELPIXIE!*





angelpixie said:


> Beer?! Really? That threw me for a loop. What kind -- does it add much flavor to the batter? If it's to make the batter lighter, couldn't you just use a sparkling water?


Any kind... The flavor it adds depends on the beer you use. I usually use a simple lager or pilsner, but tried using a stout once -- the crepes were almost rye-flavored. I have experimented with substituting the beer with apple juice, lemon-lime type sodas (7UP or Sprite, for example), white wine, red wine (which made the crepes kind of magenta-ish), chicken broth, whiskey and rum.

It all depends on whether I'm cooking them for breakfast, dinner or dessert... what we're filling the crepes with... and what I feel like drinking while I'm cooking them.

After sitting in the fridge for a hour or so, the carbonation is pretty well spent... And crepes should be pretty thin. Mostly, it's just extra liquid and helps provide a little flavor.

:smthumbup:


----------



## death and taxes

2galsmom said:


> Well I think it is nice you found a woman you are so interested in Death. She was honest, she doesn't know. She is not encouraging you but she is not discouraging you, she is enjoying your attention and keeping you there until she decides your fate, which she may never decide so be warned.
> 
> As I do not post with her I will advise you on what looks like what is most healthy for you, and that is to leave her alone. If she pulls the 'you have a problem, you have not texted me, you are giving me the cold shoulder routine again' then say good-bye. If what you say is true, you have been making the effort, then you should not tolerate someone turning it around on you for NOT making an effort! Clear as mud?
> 
> Let her make a polite and genuine effort with no abuse or twisting of emotions.


A couple of days out and I can think a little more clearly. I'm done chasing. I'm not pausing my life for her. If she wants to communicate, she knows what to do.


----------



## CEL

Have you ever counted how many shows that guy is part of?

1. Good Eats
2. Chopped
3. Next Food Network Star

Not to mention the cameos and special appearances. I think he us hella cool love the science and history he brings to his shows plus he just has a lot of charm. The kind of guy you could sit down and have a cup if tea with. Although if you have seen him on The Next Food Network Star he is a jerk his part is the Simon Cowel part of the judging.

And yeah I may watch to much tv.


----------



## FeministInPink

angstire said:


> Go get them. Now. Possession, 9/10, you know.


Sorry, don't know what you mean by "Possesion, 9/10"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angelpixie

CEL said:


> Have you ever counted how many shows that guy is part of?
> 
> 1. Good Eats
> 2. Chopped
> 3. Next Food Network Star
> 
> Not to mention the cameos and special appearances. I think he us hella cool love the science and history he brings to his shows plus he just has a lot of charm. The kind of guy you could sit down and have a cup if tea with. Although if you have seen him on The Next Food Network Star he is a jerk his part is the Simon Cowel part of the judging.
> 
> And yeah I may watch to much tv.


You forgot Iron Chef America 



FeministInPink said:


> Sorry, don't know what you mean by "Possesion, 9/10"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Old adage: 'Possession is 9/10 of the law.' If you have it in hand, you're 9/10 of the way to it being legally yours. (YMMV)


----------



## angelpixie

Alton's recipes are actually a little hit or miss, however. Ex was a bit of a fanboi, so we watched GE each week and he tried a lot of his recipes. One of my faves from him is his Free Range Fruitcake. It's the only one I'll make for the holidays.

Free Range Fruitcake Recipe : Alton Brown : Recipes : Food Network

I lied. I also like Martha's Guinness Fruit Cake


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Old adage: 'Possession is 9/10 of the law.' If you have it in hand, you're 9/10 of the way to it being legally yours. (YMMV)


I was always fond of... "You never truly own anything you can't carry on your back at a dead run."


----------



## Ceegee

angstire said:


> CG, do they know that they're only going to get hook-ups or are they truly confused?
> 
> LTRs can develop from online dating, but treating Match or whatever like a candy store, with lots of flavors to sample, yields a hook-up experience.


I don't think they are truly being honest; either with me or themselves. 

They are almost always hook-ups but they keep going back and get the same results over and over.

Some of the women are happy with this but most are not.

I think all of them lack self esteem and do not value themselves enough.

I chose never to use dating sites because I just don't like the whole premise of it. I've read a lot of profiles but they all just start sounding the same. "I am a very independent woman...I love my kids...my kids come first...I love my dogs/cats...I work out...yada, yada, yada" 

BORING!!!

I like personality, charisma, charm, quirks, expressions, etc. A woman's essence. You just can't get that from an online profile.


----------



## angstire

Pbartender said:


> I was always fond of... "You never truly own anything you can't carry on your back at a dead run."


...from zombies.


----------



## COGypsy

I don't have to outrun the zombies. I just have to outrun YOU!


Mwahahahahaha!


----------



## angstire

Ceegee said:


> I like personality, charisma, charm, quirks, expressions, etc. A woman's essence. You just can't get that from an online profile.


Truth. I met my stbxw on Match and I'm back again. One thing I've noticed the 8 years I was off, women want to go from chatting to first meeting fast. I've asked and some have said that you may as well meet over that coffee or beer the first time and get it done. Just chatting or even phone calls don't let you know enough about a person, so they like meeting up to size up the guys. I'm not sure if guys are the same, but makes sense to me.

I can't attest to the hook-ups, I've only been on first, and a couple of second, dates. There was one hook-up, but most have been the chat and get to know you. The hook-up was someone who was separated and probably not ready to date. It started as a beer, then became dinner, then a concert and then a sleepover. It was fun at the time, but truthfully, I should (there's that vulgar word!) have said thanks for the beer, and maybe dinner, and called it a night. I tried to follow up for another date, but she obviously wasn't interested. By the time she was a few weeks later, I wasn't. These are the reasons I'm not excited about my single status. Aside from losing what I thought I had, dating is stressful, expensive and sometimes sucks. But, it is fun when it's fun. And women smell nice and are fun to do date stuff with and, really, how many bonfires and scotch can I do with the bros? Well, plenty, really, but women add a nice different flavor.

I have slowed down on the multi-dating, as there is one woman I've seen a few times and we click, for now. I may do another date with a woman I went out with a couple weeks ago, but I think I'm doing that more to make sure I'm comparison shopping and not rushing into something with this one woman.

Anyway, this got to be lengthy. Online dating can be good, because it can get some of the questions answered right away, like wanting kids, having kids, etc. before you meet. You're correct about the profiles sounding alike, though.


----------



## Deejo

The premise of online dating is to get together for a date. So yeah, one of my 'rules' is at the third point of contact whether it be email or a phone call, is to ask for the date.

I simply can't relate to the 'I want to meet organically' crowd. Were that the case for me, I would literally have met one person over the past five years rather than 40+.

Yes the profiles look the same. Most folks are crappy writers and hate the prospect of writing about themselves.

The profile and pictures isnt the equivalent of meeting someone. It creates the possibility of meeting someone. Its still organic whether you connect or not.

The stats regarding rejection rates are staggering, and talking from personal experience I can validate that I reject 90% of the matches or personal inquiries that come my way.

Thats simply the way it works. If you dont cope well with rejection than online dating is probably not for you. Instead you can wait for that magical connection and then get rejected organically. I'm sure that feels much better


----------



## angstire

Deejo said:


> Instead you can wait for that magical connection and then get rejected organically. I'm sure that feels much better


Harsh, yet funny.


----------



## Jellybeans

angstire said:


> oas there is one woman I've seen a few times and we click, for now. I may do another date with a woman I went out with a couple weeks ago, but I think I'm doing that more to make sure I'm comparison shopping and not rushing into something with this one woman.


How long have you been seeing her for?

Oh and *how do you know if you are seeing someone or dating them? (or both)? Like when does it go from getting to know eachother to actual seeing eachother/dating? 

After about how many dates/hang outs/outings before you start thinking there could be potential?*


----------



## Ceegee

Deejo said:


> The premise of online dating is to get together for a date. So yeah, one of my 'rules' is at the third point of contact whether it be email or a phone call, is to ask for the date.
> 
> I simply can't relate to the 'I want to meet organically' crowd. Were that the case for me, I would literally have met one person over the past five years rather than 40+.
> 
> Yes the profiles look the same. Most folks are crappy writers and hate the prospect of writing about themselves.
> 
> The profile and pictures isnt the equivalent of meeting someone. It creates the possibility of meeting someone. Its still organic whether you connect or not.
> 
> The stats regarding rejection rates are staggering, and talking from personal experience I can validate that I reject 90% of the matches or personal inquiries that come my way.
> 
> Thats simply the way it works. If you dont cope well with rejection than online dating is probably not for you. Instead you can wait for that magical connection and then get rejected organically. I'm sure that feels much better


Valid points.

We all have our opinions based on our own experiences.

I had a Match account and perused the profiles for a while. Nothing about the experience appealed to me. 

Meanwhile, I was meeting women at grocery stores, at restaurants, church and bars.

I think my strengths are my sense of humor and my charm. That is harder to showcase in an online profile. I believe I can attract a better quality mate in person than I can online.

I don't get rejected; I'm kind of a big deal.


----------



## angstire

Ceegee said:


> I don't get rejected; I'm kind of a big deal.


And that's just funny.


----------



## angstire

Jellybeans said:


> How long have you been seeing her for?
> 
> Oh and *how do you know if you are seeing someone or dating them? (or both)? Like when does it go from getting to know eachother to actual seeing eachother/dating?
> 
> After about how many dates/hang outs/outings before you start thinking there could be potential?*


About 6 weeks, we're on date 7 this weekend.

You're seeing/dating someone when one of you says to the other, "I don't want to see anyone else and I only want you to see me. Do you want to do that?" And then either the person who takes that risk is happy or not as much. We haven't had that convo yet and I would so no to exclusive today, but I'm inherently lazy and I like her, so saying yes might not be too far off. Honestly, the larger concern if the exclusive was asked by for either of us now, is that it would be rushing things along. I have one more date with another woman set up, but after that I don't plan to make anymore. I haven't been back to Match in a couple of weeks, because, I'm lazy and a serial monogomist.

I think I look for red flags from the first date (and I've seen them too). My second divorce is almost complete, so I'm not really thinking about anything more than if we have fun together, and enough fun that I'm not really interested in going thru the effort of meeting someone else. I remember quite clearly being on the look out for my next wife after my first divorce. If I end up in an LTR or, even ugghh, another marriage, fine. But right now, I just want to find a lady to spend some time with and not have it impact my kids or the other aspects of my life. And that mostly means looking out for red flags or things I don't want. Which, incidentally, also could lay the foundation for an LTR. Funny how that works. 

What are you looking for regarding your questions?


----------



## Jellybeans

Ceegee said:


> Meanwhile, I was meeting women at grocery stores, at restaurants, *church and bars.*


Haha. Great combo!



Ceegee said:


> I don't get rejected; I'm kind of a big deal.


:smthumbup: Awesome!


----------



## Deejo

Ceegee said:


> I don't get rejected; I'm kind of a big deal.


Your gonna do just fine ...


----------



## Jellybeans

angstire said:


> We haven't had that convo yet and I would so no to exclusive today, *but I'm inherently lazy* and I like her, so saying yes might not be too far off.
> 
> I haven't been back to Match in a couple of weeks, because, I'm lazy and a serial monogomist.


Lol I see.

My questions were just asking how everyone viewed those things. Because we all have different experiences and ideas of what this all means... this DATING world. OMG and the dating world is cray.


----------



## Ceegee

Jellybeans said:


> Haha. Great combo!


Gotta go to church to atone for your Saturday nights at the bar, Jelly. 

My church even has a 1:00 service for late risers. We call it drunk service. Lots of singles in attendance.


----------



## Deejo

Jellybeans said:


> How long have you been seeing her for?
> 
> Oh and *how do you know if you are seeing someone or dating them? (or both)? Like when does it go from getting to know eachother to actual seeing eachother/dating?
> 
> After about how many dates/hang outs/outings before you start thinking there could be potential?*


Presume that anyone you meet for a first date is seeing other people. 

Don't think about what your status is, think about whether or not both of you are becoming more invested in getting to know, and interacting with one another. 

How can I say this without sounding cavalier?

Don't operate from a place of fear.

Let it be what it's meant to be. If after a few weeks of seeing one another each weekend and talking or corresponding regularly, it's fair to ask, or state that you require exclusivity. No guarantee you'll get it, no guarantee they won't lie, no guarantee they won't walk, no guarantee that they won't at that point state that they really like you, but they aren't into exclusivity.
Pretty much just like life and love in general; no guarantees.

You usually get a pretty good sense for whether you are exclusive or not. Litmus test is simple. How into you are they? And I mean invested in getting to know you and interacting with you rather than focusing on getting you into bed.

Which brings me to that pr!ckly subject. My opinion on sex? If you are over the age of 25, you really don't need to be concerned about your virtue any longer. If you have standards and boundaries, that's fine. If you want to have sex ... have it. The rules are just different when you're older.


----------



## Ceegee

Deejo said:


> Presume that anyone you meet for a first date is seeing other people.
> 
> Don't think about what your status is, think about whether or not both of you are becoming more invested in getting to know, and interacting with one another.
> 
> How can I say this without sounding cavalier?
> 
> Don't operate from a place of fear.
> 
> Let it be what it's meant to be. If after a few weeks of seeing one another each weekend and talking or corresponding regularly, it's fair to ask, or state that you require exclusivity. No guarantee you'll get it, no guarantee they won't lie, no guarantee they won't walk, no guarantee that they won't at that point state that they really like you, but they aren't into exclusivity.
> Pretty much just like life and love in general; no guarantees.
> 
> You usually get a pretty good sense for whether you are exclusive or not. Litmus test is simple. How into you are they? And I mean invested in getting to know you and interacting with you rather than focusing on getting you into bed.
> 
> Which brings me to that pr!ckly subject. My opinion on sex? If you are over the age of 25, you really don't need to be concerned about your virtue any longer. If you have standards and boundaries, that's fine. If you want to have sex ... have it. The rules are just different when you're older.


QFT

Be confident. In yourself and what you want. 

If they can't or won't give it to you move on. Or don't. Do what you want.


----------



## CEL

Jellybeans said:


> Oh and how do you know if you are seeing someone or dating them? (or both)? Like when does it go from getting to know eachother to actual seeing eachother/dating?


Dating is the first 3 dates seeing someone is beyond that it sets a precedent that you enjoy each others conversation and find the other person attractive. Neither really mean anything more like a contract you have the intent to do business but nothing on paper you are agreeing to operate in good faith.



Jellybeans said:


> After about how many dates/hang outs/outings before you start thinking there could be potential?[/B]


This is fluid you can see potential quickly or it can grow on you. The time that you go from seeing each other to being together is when you agree to be exclusive. When you both agree to be GF and BF or GF and GF or BF and BF or TF and TF. LOL.

I often think men just need to man up and stop avoiding conflict. If you want to be exclusive then say so don't dance around you intentions or feelings just be honest. Good way to scare a women away but then anything else is gaming a person which is distasteful to me.


----------



## Hardtohandle

2galsmom said:


> LOL Hardtohandle, you spent that in a month I had to re-read it. I told you I had expensive taste, well that is entirely possible. We go get burritos at Chipotle and it costs $36!


I love you already.. 

It was the month I went to the egyptian place.. 

Casa La Femme - Traditional Egyptian Cuisine in New York

Its was a really NICE place.. 

Once you see where that is you will now know where I live and how expensive it is..


----------



## Hardtohandle

hope4family said:


> Chopped Jalapeno Cheddar Brats over angel hair pasta (or of choice) with Red, Orange, Yellow bell peppers and a secret Cuban sauce.


Oh man does that sound good.. I love spicy (food and woman)


----------



## FeministInPink

Hardtohandle said:


> I love you already..
> 
> It was the month I went to the egyptian place..
> 
> Casa La Femme - Traditional Egyptian Cuisine in New York
> 
> Its was a really NICE place..
> 
> Once you see where that is you will now know where I live and how expensive it is..


That place looks fantastic! 

But to me, that would definitely be a special occasion place.


----------



## 2galsmom

angelpixie said:


> Alton's recipes are actually a little hit or miss, however. Ex was a bit of a fanboi, so we watched GE each week and he tried a lot of his recipes. One of my faves from him is his Free Range Fruitcake. It's the only one I'll make for the holidays.
> 
> Free Range Fruitcake Recipe : Alton Brown : Recipes : Food Network
> 
> I lied. I also like Martha's Guinness Fruit Cake



In truth, Alton Brown lost me as a viewer when he "cured" smoked salmon in his dishwasher. I'll pass thank you and the health inspector will concur. Brown's show "cut throat" kitchen is also a turn off. I will confess at last, I am going to make my crepes via mix. 

Thanks for the fruitcake link. I love fruit cakes and every St. Patrick's Day I make Nigella's Chocolate Guinness Cake, have you tried that one? D-E-L-I-C-I-O-U-S! You really should!

Ceegee, you made me smile. LOL

And Hardtohandle Egyptian food is also D-E-L-I-C-I-O-U-S! In fact most cuisine from the middle east is delicious. Well I hope you had fun on your spending spree. Cities are expensive but I did not fare well in the "sticks" so I sympathize. Think Green Acres . . .

Deejo - I don't blame you for wanting to go on an actual "date" when you have paid for a "dating" service! If you want penpals come to TAM for free.

As for the standard women's lines. My kids come first yada yada yada, it is unfortunate that women use this "armoring" on their dates but I am sure it happens a lot.


----------



## Hardtohandle

I cannot multi-date.. I've been offered the chance, but I just can't.. 

Image the girl says look if you want to date other people its okay, I understand I've been separated 2 years so I can understand if you want to date around a bit and sow your oats.. I just would like to know so I know where I stand.. 

Right then and there I could have said yes, that is what I exactly intend to do.. But I couldn't.. 

Someone posted something along the lines of shopping around.. 

For me at 46 heading towards 47.. I'm gonna be honest.. I have 2 boys full time with me.. Even when a woman reads this online, they still don't get.. I have to explain it 100 times and then of course the next questions is always why I have them full time ? I get it being out of the norm, but I get a offended a bit. Like I am not good enough for my kids or something, or that my Ex is better.

It takes time to know someone.. Its not 3 months, 4 months or 6 months.. I think 12 months or more is a safe bet. At least for me, especially since I have kids..

I need to see what baggage they have.. I dated one woman 5 months before I cut her loose. I seen the baggage, but denied it.. I just was walking around with rose colored glasses.. Lessons learned and I grew up a bit more..

Now I more mature, before it was all about the body and the sex.. Yes I'm a shallow retard or was at least.. The more my friends went holy sh1t how did you land her.. The more I liked it.. 

To me now I think any loving caring woman would do. Of course there must be some attraction, but I don't need to shop around and start comparing woman secretly against each other.. 

At what point does it stop then, I think you start to fall into the habit that no one is good enough. This one too fat, this other one has a better a$$, this one makes more money.. 

Now my requirements are 
Understand and appreciates me and my situation with my kids.. 
Works for a living and can support themselves.. 
Isn't a financial nightmare. There is debt and then there is DEBT
Doesn't take meds to keep them normal. That was something the old GF did, I didn't know until a week before we broke up. I would have never have known either if I didn't take her for a medical procedure. 

You know it's sad in some ways, but you don't have the time you did when you were 20 and 30 to date.. I dated my Ex for 5 years before we got married.. Could you imagine me now dating a woman who is 40 and me 46 for 5 years.. I would 51 and she would be 45.. Those years become dog years as you get older if you get what I mean.. No woman in her right mind would want to date someone for 5 years at that age *"Just to see if it's right"*

Plus I am starting to learn, you either feast or famine.. I was getting no bites on these sites and then I get tons. 

I think part of it is summer love.. Some of these woman and men want to go out with what they think is the fun person with no kids or grown up kids and then after the summer is over for some reality hits.. 

And I will also be honest I think some women just lower their standards.. 

Women that rejected me 5 months ago are now looking talk to me. As much as I like it I also know I wasn't on their radar 5 months ago.. 

Crazy stuff this dating


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> I will confess at last, I am going to make my crepes via mix.


Try making them once... just once ...from scratch.

I usually make Hollandaise sauce from a mix, too... But I made it once from scratch just to prove to myself that I could. And then I made it from scratch a second time to prove to myself it wasn't a fluke.


----------



## Hardtohandle

2galsmom said:


> I
> 
> And Hardtohandle Egyptian food is also D-E-L-I-C-I-O-U-S! In fact most cuisine from the middle east is delicious. Well I hope you had fun on your spending spree. Cities are expensive but I did not fare well in the "sticks" so I sympathize. Think Green Acres . . .
> 
> As for the standard women's lines. My kids come first yada yada yada, it is unfortunate that women use this "armoring" on their dates but I am sure it happens a lot.


I'm tired of NYC... TIRED... I want Green Acres.. 
I was hoping to move out until the Ex did what she did. It kills me in many ways because it could end up being a fight if I want to leave NYC with the kids.. I don't mind the fight, but I just don't want to spend 10k to 20k on lawyers just to fight her. 
I could sell my home and get a really, really great home somewhere else.. 100x larger and a cleaning lady twice a week. It just pisses me off she screwed this up for my kids..

And yes I get that armoring comment even though I have my kids as well. Again I tell you women forget I have kids.. Even when I say yea I know what you mean. 
They respond back Oh yea I forgot you have your kids.. WTF ??


----------



## Freak On a Leash

angelpixie said:


> It's not the end of the world, h4f. I was married to someone younger than me. We had a lot of things in common because we had a wide range of interests. We weren't just locked into things from our own 'eras'. I stayed current and he loved stuff from the 80s and we both loved really old movies, etc. Once you find people who have broader, more wide ranging fields of interest, age really won't matter as much. As long as you aren't narrow, too.


The hard part is finding people who aren't narrow. I have the problem is that like to keep current and like what is NOW. I relate better to people in their 30s-40s. All the people in my age group that I know are still stuck in the '80s. 

While I liked the 80s and still enjoy the music from it I find it's boring to keep listening to the same thing over and over again, doing the same stuff. I like to constantly change it up and do and learn about new stuff. 

In the next two days I'm going to 2 concerts and very few people my age have even heard of the bands I'm going to see, never mind like them. It's a problem. 

I find that finding common interests is the key but even there I tend to be a bit more extreme then most my age. 

Fortunately I'm not narrow and can adapt. My girlfriends like old school disco and modern club music so I've come to appreciate it even though I'm a head banger type who likes metal and I do a lot of stuff on my own because no one else will do it.


----------



## 2galsmom

Pbartender said:


> Try making them once... just once ...from scratch.
> 
> I usually make Hollandaise sauce from a mix, too... But I made it once from scratch just to prove to myself that I could. And then I made it from scratch a second time to prove to myself it wasn't a fluke.


So be it Angelpixie and Pbartender, I shall try it once and get back to you with the report. I once made an Angel Food Cake from scratch. TOTAL WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY. You need a dozen egg whites etc etc. I made it it cost over 5.00 and the grocery store sold it for $3.99.

The taste was the same, but nonetheless I shall endeavor homemade crepes.

I get wanting to leave the city. We were here for my girls who went to a private school, as my daughter enters Middle School I have serious reservations about Urban Schools. I just have no idea where to go and I am just starting off making my own $ again and whatnot.

LOL Think carefully before you move on out to Hooterville. . . the chores! I do laugh in that when he did move me to the sticks I remembered that the people liked Lisa Douglas, Mr. Douglas, not so much. I also have as much BAGGAGE as Lisa Douglas! What can you do? It is no longer designer I sold that all to a consignment store and while the luggage is gone my baggage remains and I work on it everyday. Life in your 40s . . .

BUT - I have sole custody of my 2gals, it is a lot of work, every night 4 hours of %$#@%& homework alone that I have to patrol. They are sad we did not have a "normal" divorce with the traditional 50/50 California divorce but we do not do ANYTHING normally I told them.

So I can relate.


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> So be it Angelpixie and Pbartender, I shall try it once and get back to you with the report. I once made an Angel Food Cake from scratch. TOTAL WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY. You need a dozen egg whites etc etc. I made it it cost over 5.00 and the grocery store sold it for $3.99.


Oh... Something like angel food cake is a whole different bag of tricks. There are certain recipes that end up being more expensive to make from scratch than to buy in a store or order in a restaurant.

Crepes aren't one of them. They're pretty cheap to make from scratch, all told... The recipe I posted above uses 2 eggs, 3/4 c milk, 2/3 c beer (other liquid, even just water, can be substituted), 1 cup flour, 1/4 t salt, 2 T oil. Most people already have all those ingredients in the kitchen.

The real advantage of cooking from scratch is that you aren't eating all the preservatives and garbage that's added into the typical mix to increase self life. You can be certain you're eating REAL food.

Good luck! :smthumbup:


----------



## Freak On a Leash

Hardtohandle said:


> It was the month I went to the egyptian place..
> 
> Casa La Femme - Traditional Egyptian Cuisine in New York
> 
> Its was a really NICE place..
> 
> Once you see where that is you will now know where I live and how expensive it is..


Hot Damn! I'm going up to NYC on Friday. Care to grab a bite to eat? :smthumbup:


----------



## Freak On a Leash

Holy crap! Is this thread turning into a thread that belongs on the Food Network? :rofl: I love watching shows about cooking Restaurant Impossible is my favorite and I'd like to take Robert Irvine home in a Doggie Bag  

I love to EAT out. I love to get dressed up and go out and have fun. Eating out is part of my social life, it's what I do before I go dancing or to a bar and anyone who goes out with me had better like it to. No staying home and cooking/cleaning a big meal. I do that twice a year..Thanksgiving and Christmas. That's it. 

I HATE cooking. Many of tried to convince me that it can be fun but it's too much like work. I live in a town with tons of restaurants so it's easy to get take out, heat it up and eat it. No fuss, no muss. I just got done eating a delicious meal from nearby vegan restaurant. Should I do Thai tomorrow? :scratchhead:


----------



## 2galsmom

Pbartender said:


> Oh... Something like angel food cake is a whole different bag of tricks. There are certain recipes that end up being more expensive to make from scratch than to buy in a store or order in a restaurant.
> 
> Crepes aren't one of them. They're pretty cheap to make from scratch, all told... The recipe I posted above uses 2 eggs, 3/4 c milk, 2/3 c beer (other liquid, even just water, can be substituted), 1 cup flour, 1/4 t salt, 2 T oil. Most people already have all those ingredients in the kitchen.
> 
> The real advantage of cooking from scratch is that you aren't eating all the preservatives and garbage that's added into the typical mix to increase self life. You can be certain you're eating REAL food.
> 
> Good luck! :smthumbup:



I will give it a try, the kids will love the beer, I will use light - JUST KIDDING. As I stated somewhere, they prefer homemade pancakes so I will just re-stock my kitchen like the old days and break down and buy the essential ingredients.

You are correct about not needing those artificial ingredients , I am really trying to avoid preservatives and so why not. I asked my brother in law to pick up our Nutella at Costco this weekend so next week I will endeavor homemade crepes.

Freak on a Leash next time you will have to cook the meal then at home, haven't you been reading the Dating After Divorce Rules?


----------



## Freak On a Leash

As far as online dating goes. I see it as an alternative way of getting dates and have no problem with it per sec. But I'm simply not interested enough in dating to take the time and make the effort. The whole thing of writing about myself, trying to sell myself like I would a piece of furniture or a car isn't my thing. 

It would take a book to fully explain my multi faceted personality and outlook on life, never mind what it is actually want from someone else. Plus, it doesn't help when I don't actually know what it is I want! I figure that when I meet someone who I find interesting and want to date pops up I'll figure it out.

Another problem with online dating for me is that I have little patience to go through the process of calling, emailing, texting, etc. I have better things to do with my time and I hate all the back and forth. But I don't want to go and spend time with someone I don't know either. It's a serious "between a rock and hard place" situation. 

Right now I have yet to meet one person (and I have an active social life) that I really want to date at all. My ex husband was a person that I met and liked immediately and felt a real chemistry for. That is a very rare occurrence in my life. I rarely like someone right away. I have to get to know them over a period of time to even like them as a friend, never mind someone I feel attracted to.

And even though I love to flirt with men going to bed with them right away isn't happening. In fact, the quickest way to get rid of me is for them to come on too strong, too fast. I throw it in reverse and back away quickly. 

I think a lot of my attitude is that I truly like being alone and single and am having a grand ol' time just doing what I'm doing now. I really don't care about dating or meeting anyone. It perplexes my girlfriends who are always on the "hunt" for either a relationship or sex. I don't want or need either and you do need to be wanting or needing to have the urge to merge.


----------



## angstire

HardtoHandle, your requirements are good ones. I have a similar list. On top of that, I'm trying not to rush in like I did with my second wife. Yours is a good list. 

I'll also try to go in with what Deejo said, there are no guarantees in life or love. So enjoy and to thy own self, be true.


----------



## angstire

Freak On a Leash said:


> I think a lot of my attitude is that I truly like being alone and single and am having a grand ol' time just doing what I'm doing now. I really don't care about dating or meeting anyone. It perplexes my girlfriends who are always on the "hunt" for either a relationship or sex. I don't want or need either and you do need to be wanting or needing to have the urge to merge.


And you know what you want and will make you happy, so you're good.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

2galsmom said:


> Freak on a Leash next time you will have to cook the meal then at home, haven't you been reading the Dating After Divorce Rules?


 :scratchhead: Rules? What rules? I don't cook anyone any meals. We go out or order it in. Those are MY rules. 

See why I choose to remain single? 

S.I.N.G.L.E

Stress

Is

Now

Gone

Life's 

Easy


----------



## angelpixie

Freak On a Leash said:


> :scratchhead: Rules? What rules? I don't cook anyone any meals. We go out or order it in. Those are MY rules.
> 
> See why I choose to remain single?
> 
> S.I.N.G.L.E
> 
> Stress
> 
> Is
> 
> Now
> 
> Gone
> 
> Life's
> 
> Easy



:rofl: :rofl:


----------



## 2galsmom

The "rules" of dating are a running joke here it seems, you know damn well there are no rules Freak on a Leash. 

As for stress free? HARDLY!

I am glad that is what S.I.N.G.L.E. means to you.

I just traded one form of stress for another, instead of being scared a lunatic will assault me or abuse me emotionally, I worry about every penny I spend and how I will raise two kids in a healthy happy home alone with no positive male role model and me shielding them from their "sperm donor."

My first paycheck was mailed today, and I am sure once I have a full client load things will be better in a few months but I am anything but stress free. When I think of what the Never Happy blew, LITERALLY, I could vomit. So ungrateful and insane. So I just do not think about my old life and look forward and pray.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

Oh, I got plenty of stress in my life but all the crap and stress I had due to my ex husband is gone and that is a HUGE burden. I can deal with everything else because I'm actually fairly happy and content these days. Why am I content and happy? Because I'm SINGLE.

Everyone I know is out there trying to date, meet people, engage in relationships, etc look a LOT more stressed than I am. They all look pretty damn miserable if you ask me. 

So I'll pass on that. 

Raising the kids, working, paying the bills..Yeah, that's mighty stressful but that's life. I play the lottery (good luck with that!) and I plan to go with the K.I.S rule in 3 years. Keep It Simple. If I can't make more I'm going to move someplace cheaper and spend less. 

It's not for everyone but my entire game plan is about the elimination of stress. The divorce was just Step 1. 

I am only talking about what pertains to ME. Everyone else's situation is different. I don't assume that everyone feels or thinks as I do. I only know and express what I feel.


----------



## Jellybeans

Deejo said:


> Presume that anyone you meet for a first date is seeing other people.
> 
> Don't think about what your status is, think about whether or not both of you are becoming more invested in getting to know, and interacting with one another.
> 
> How can I say this without sounding cavalier?
> 
> Don't operate from a place of fear.
> 
> Let it be what it's meant to be.
> 
> You usually get a pretty good sense for whether you are exclusive or not.
> 
> Which brings me to that pr!ckly subject. My opinion on sex? If you are over the age of 25, you really don't need to be concerned about your virtue any longer. If you have standards and boundaries, that's fine. If you want to have sex ... have it. The rules are just different when you're older.


Solid advice, Deejo. :smthumbup:



CEL said:


> When you both agree to be GF and BF or GF and GF or BF and BF or TF and TF. LOL.


What is "TF?"



Hardtohandle said:


> I love you already..
> 
> It was the month I went to the egyptian place..
> 
> Casa La Femme - Traditional Egyptian Cuisine in New York
> 
> Its was a really NICE place..


Oh wow. I want to go there!


----------



## Jellybeans

Hardtohandle said:


> Could you imagine me now dating a woman who is 40 and me 46 for 5 years.. I would 51 and she would be 45.. Those years become dog years as you get older if you get what I mean.. No woman in her right mind would want to date someone for 5 years at that age *"Just to see if it's right"*


Curious--do you have a cut-off age for women you date/involve yourself with at 46?




Hardtohandle said:


> And I will also be honest I think some women just lower their standards.


How so? Expand. 



Pbartender said:


> Try making them once... just once ...from scratch.
> 
> I usually make Hollandaise sauce from a mix, too... But I made it once from scratch just to prove to myself that I could. And then I made it from scratch a second time to prove to myself it wasn't a fluke.


Dammit. Why can't we be neighbors?! 



Freak On a Leash said:


> It would take a book to fully explain my multi faceted personality and outlook on life


Haha. I love you, Freak! :rofl:




Freak On a Leash said:


> I really don't care about dating or meeting anyone. It perplexes my girlfriends who are always on the "hunt" for either a relationship or sex. I don't want or need either and you do need to be wanting or needing to have the urge to merge.


You and I sound so very similar. I was never someone who needed to have a boyfriend. Ever. You know how some women are t hat way? I rarely ever dated and it was a shock to everyone when I met exH and announced we were getting married. And that I'd fallen In Love. It happens every blue moon for me.

Sounds like you know what you want and there is nothing wrong with that at all.



2galsmom said:


> I just traded one form of stress for another, instead of being scared a lunatic will assault me or abuse me emotionally, *I worry about every penny I spend and how I will raise two kids in a healthy happy home alone with no positive male role model and me shielding them from their "sperm donor."*


Yeah but at least you don't have the stress of worrying about some "lunatic" assaulting or abusing you emotionally. To me, that is a gift. A good one. I'd rather worry about paying bills and raising kids (if I had any) healthily than worrying about if some guy is going to harm me (emotionally or otherwise).


----------



## angelpixie

Jellybeans said:


> Yeah but at least you don't have the stress of worrying about some "lunatic" assaulting or abusing you emotionally. To me, that is a gift. A good one. I'd rather worry about paying bills and raising kids (if I had any) healthily than worrying about if some guy is going to harm me (emotionally or otherwise).


:iagree: Truth is, I had to worry about paying bills and raising kids _along with_ being abused emotionally when I was with Ex. And being in that constant state didn't leave the brain working too well. Being out of that stress (for the most part. Grr.) has allowed my brain to clear and it's much easier to deal with the everyday stresses of bills and kids. Proof being that after years of taking it, I went cold turkey off 12.5 mg of Ambien CR within a few months of moving away from him, and decreased my other meds to just one last anti-depressant, and my goal is to get off that eventually, too. 

If things are tight one month, I only have to deal with myself and DS when I'm juggling funds. No pissy entitled manchild. HUGE load of stress off my shoulders right there! :smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!! 

My migraines and sleep cycle significantly improved when I left ex, too. I used to need to take sedatives to sleep but I didn't for eons after I left him. Weird.


----------



## Ceegee

Jellybeans said:


> Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> My migraines and sleep cycle significantly improved when I left ex, too. I used to need to take sedatives to sleep but I didn't for eons after I left him. Weird.


God, you sounded just like my X right there.


----------



## Jellybeans

Her migraines went away too? No sedatives needed to sleep?

:scratchhead:


----------



## Ceegee

Jellybeans said:


> Her migraines went away too? No sedatives needed to sleep?
> 
> :scratchhead:


No, she had migraines and sleep problems. Said I was the cause of it all. 

We've been separated for over a year now but she's still going to dr's for the same issues.


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> Dammit. Why can't we be neighbors?!


It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day for a neighbor. Would you be mine? Could you be mine?

It's a neighborly day in this beauty wood, a neighborly day for a beauty. Would you be mine? Could you be mine?

I've always wanted to have a neighbor just like you. I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you. So...

Let's make the most of this beautiful day! Since we're together we might as well say: Would you be mine? Could you be mine? Won't you be my neighbor?

Won't you please? Won't you please? Please won't you be my neighbor?


----------



## angelpixie

If you were able to type that up from memory, I would find that a little scary...


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> If you were able to type that up from memory, I would find that a little scary...




That's another one I sing when I make pancakes...


----------



## Jellybeans

Ceegee said:


> No, she had migraines and sleep problems. Said I was the cause of it all.
> 
> We've been separated for over a year now but she's still going to dr's for the same issues.


That sucks. I personally have no had any problems at all since. I never said exH caused them but I think the stress did. I do not kid when I say I have not had problems really with it since...

That is awful she is still suffering from that because I have been there and it is no walk in the park.



Pbartender said:


> It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day for a neighbor. Would you be mine? Could you be mine?


Yes! Let's be neighbors! :smthumbup: You can make pancakes and we can trade off dishes!


----------



## FeministInPink

Jellybeans said:


> Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> My migraines and sleep cycle significantly improved when I left ex, too. I used to need to take sedatives to sleep but I didn't for eons after I left him. Weird.


I used to need Advil PM to sleep, but I haven't taken any in ages. No problems sleeping now, and no problems waking up anymore. The stress in my life almost vanished overnight when he moved out. It was magical.


----------



## Ceegee

What was this thread about again?


----------



## working_together

I totally get the stress of raising kids and paying all the bills. My ex and I have been apart for a year and a half (wholy sh*t, has it been that long??) lol. My ex does not contribute financially, so I have that responsibility...why? because it keeps me sane, and away from the emotional abuse. I have the satisfaction of know I do my part. 

How am I sleeping....meh, never slept well anyway. But I feel way less crazy. 

I met someone 10 months ago, and I realized what it means to be in a "normal" and "healthy" relationship. Is it perfect? Nope, nothing is especially when you throw ex's into the mix. I've learned so much in this relationship, I can speak up and state my concerns without having them being twisted around, and when I am not happy with something and express that, the other person actually changed those things in order to make me more comfortable. All new in an non-abusive relationship.

At the time of our separation I never thought I would feel "ok", I thought I would be a basket case for years.

I did the online dating thing for months before meeting my guy, and to say the least it was quite entertaining and interesting. I never met a crack pot (yay for me), the worst that ever happen was going on a first time date, the guy went to the washroom and never came out....lol. It gave me a funny story to tell friends. It's quite a normal thing for people in their 30's and 40's, I'd much rather meet someone online than in a bar (not my scene, and I don't do girl nights out).

Relationships and dating after divorce are so freaking tricky, it's not like in your 20's, there is so much baggage, children etc.


Blah, I guess I could go on about divorce, dating and the bull that we all endured in our marriages, but one thing for sure, what ever choice we make (date or not), as long as we're happy, we earned it. And I'll be damned if I am going to continue to feel guilty for poor choices I made at the end of my marriage.


----------



## 2galsmom

He went to the bathroom and never came out? Just horrible. What a coward, thank goodness he spared you anymore time with him!

Workingtogether you are correct. I cannot look to my ex for any support even if he could provide it as there are way too many strings attached. I will pay for the kids medical IF you do this, uh uh you made me angry, no money for you. F- you and your $ pal.

I had a lifetime of abuse to undo and so it is undone. My kids are safe and happy in a mentally stable home - finally.

Oddly, I am a better person now that I have addressed my baggage so my expectations (back to topic for Ceegee) in dating is that I will not make the same mistakes again. New mistakes, probably, but I have definitely learned why and how I got into this place and I do not want to repeat it at 64.

(FYI to all angry men who read and point out contradictions from other threads, I did in fact file a custody support claim so my interaction with him would be eliminated and the courts would handle the $ so my children would not suffer as I rebuild my income. I will have better luck getting blood from a lemon but kids need insurance, food, etc.)


----------



## working_together

2galsmom said:


> He went to the bathroom and never came out? Just horrible. What a coward, thank goodness he spared you anymore time with him!
> 
> Workingtogether you are correct. I cannot look to my ex for any support even if he could provide it as there are way too many strings attached. I will pay for the kids medical IF you do this, uh uh you made me angry, no money for you. F- you and your $ pal.
> 
> I had a lifetime of abuse to undo and so it is undone. My kids are safe and happy in a mentally stable home - finally.
> 
> Oddly, I am a better person now that I have addressed my baggage so my expectations (back to topic for Ceegee) in dating is that I will not make the same mistakes again. New mistakes, probably, but I have definitely learned why and how I got into this place and I do not want to repeat it at 64.
> 
> (FYI to all angry men who read and point out contradictions from other threads, I did in fact file a custody support claim so my interaction with him would be eliminated and the courts would handle the $ so my children would not suffer as I rebuild my income. I will have better luck getting blood from a lemon but kids need insurance, food, etc.)


If and when you do start dating, you will be pretty shocked at the decent men out there who are actually interested in what you say and enjoy talking with you. I was like "wtf, there are so many "normal" men out here".

But yeah, that guy got scared when we went out on that date, plus he lied about his height, and his pic was NOT recent, but that's a whole other dating thread.


----------



## FeministInPink

So, to keep this on topic...

I bit the bullet and created a (new*) ******* account, and we'll see how that goes.

(I created a new one b/c my STBXH knows about the old one - which I've de-activated [http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/113450-wtf-going-me-3.html#post4023186]. I don't know if he checks it or not. Probably not. But I just wanted a new account, to start fresh.)

I actually went out on a limb and messaged two guys last night. Woo! I'm a wild woman


----------



## angelpixie

FeministInPink said:


> I actually went out on a limb and messaged two guys last night. Woo! I'm a wild woman


 I'm shocked! You floozy, you.


----------



## angstire

Ceegee said:


> What was this thread about again?


How to get to banging status, I think.


----------



## angelpixie

I went back to re-read the OP, and I was surprised. I totally didn't remember this thread being about what was in his post. :rofl:


----------



## angstire

working_together said:


> But yeah, that guy got scared when we went out on that date, plus he lied about his height, and his pic was NOT recent, but that's a whole other dating thread.


hahahaha, online dating makes for entertaining stories, non?


----------



## hope4family

working_together said:


> If and when you do start dating, you will be pretty shocked at the decent men out there who are actually interested in what you say and enjoy talking with you. I was like "wtf, there are so many "normal" men out here".
> 
> But yeah, that guy got scared when we went out on that date, plus he lied about his height, and his pic was NOT recent, but that's a whole other dating thread.


This is true. Try looking at the world as a place of abundance and not so much slim pickings. 

Just remember the difference between a bad man and a man with baggage who owns it.


----------



## death and taxes

Ceegee said:


> What was this thread about again?


There's my post. Which I think has been handled well. Then there's a few other random threads thrown in for good measure. All entertaining. 

Some of the threads make me want to cook. And when I move out of my current roommate situation into my own apartment, I'll have plenty of space to experiment and have a good ol time. 

And something about online dating in this thread? Yeah, I've got a thumb in that, too. Takes a lot of dang e-mailing too many women to get anything started. And then the jam does break, almost too many at one time. 

I miss the lady. But I've had time to think. And I see now that I stopped being any kind of priority for her. Which sucks for her. Cuz I'm a good catch. Educated. Healthy. Stable career and make decent money. No debt. Average looks  And I have diverse interests and am up for most anything. And I don't carry grudges. So if she doesn't want to appreciate all I have to offer, that's just too bad. I'll lick my wounds for a bit and enjoy my life.


----------



## FeministInPink

angelpixie said:


> I'm shocked! You floozy, you.


I know, I'm a regular whatever-the-female-version-of-a-hound-dog-is.

I might even message a few more tonight. Though there are some other things that I really need to be doing. It's REALLY easy to waste a lot of time on OKC.


----------



## COGypsy

working_together said:


> Relationships and dating after divorce are so freaking tricky, it's not like in your 20's, there is so much baggage, children etc.


Actually, I think it's a lot less complicated at this stage of life. SO much less pressure from "when are you going to settle down", watching all your friends get engaged or people asking when you're going to have kids. Being in my late 30's, I know my family and friends finally believe that kids are not going to happen and my father got to throw a wedding for at least one of his daughters. I have a great career and a lifestyle I enjoy whether I'm paired off or not. 

Expectations around me for my life and relationships are at an all time low and I'm loving it!


----------



## CEL

Jellybeans said:


> What is "TF?"


Transgender Friend....don't tell me you have not been there done that


----------



## COGypsy

2galsmom said:


> You made me laugh CGYpsy with your expectations at an all time low, be careful! That is how I got into my marriage from HELL. I should have expected more from men.. . .


Oh no! MY expectations are as high or higher than ever! It's the Nosy Nellie armchair quarterbacks on the sidelines of my life that have given up on me


----------



## FeministInPink

COGypsy said:


> Oh no! MY expectations are as high or higher than ever! It's the Nosy Nellie armchair quarterbacks on the sidelines of my life that have given up on me


It was my failed marriage that made me realize that I should have higher expectations. If I'd had higher expectations, I never would have stuck with him for such a long time.

All my young life, my mother told me that my expectations were too high, and I held other people to too high of a standard. So I lowered my expectations. So I've learned the following: when you lower your expectations, you get what you expect - and never better than you expect. (I also learned to always take my mother's advice with a large dose of salt. Her advice usually steers me wrong, from "lower your expectations" to "mullets are very popular right now, you should get one!" Yes, the mullet thing did actually happen. In 4th grade.)


----------



## CEL

Wow lots of good stuff here to respond too.

1. Is there an age limit? Nope not for me I could care less about what age the person is only that I like them and that I find them attractive.

2. Kids? I can go either way if they don't have kids I am not interested in having kids. If they do have kids then I want them to make sure the kids are their number 1 priority. I am a 35 year old adult male I have mother don't need another. I also do not want to be with a women that makes me the top priority when they have child. If they do then I take that as a mark against their character. What kind of person puts a boyfriend above their child? Not someone I want to be with. I don't have children so I make myself number 1 and figure the number 2 spot is open. 

3. Now for what I am looking for in a girlfriend
A. The operative word is friend what I look for in a girlfriend is still what I look for in a friend.
B. Empathy for others. Big one for me I like people who care about others and who can empathize with anothers pain.
C. Loyalty no cheaters or betraying secrets.
D. Honesty without it you have not trust not the mean kind of honesty but the nice and diplomatic kind.
E. I want to see actions not just words don't tell me you care show me you care. I have had all the pretty words in the world I look at actions now.
F. I could care less about their debt or financial situation I am not looking at a financial partner I am looking for an emotional and physical partner. 
G. Respect gotta go both way respect my boundaries and I will respect yours.


So that is some of what I look for the end result is you gotta have spark. And really all the rules in the world don't change the fact that if you like someone then you may find you where wrong that what you really wanted was not what you really needed. So I think being emotionally and situation ally nimble is a good thing. Be open to life and see what it brings you and just try to make healthy decisions plus don't take it so seriously. Really no one gets out alive.


----------



## Ceegee

2galsmom said:


> Angelpixie that sucks. Part of my anger towards my ex is that he had is so good, so very good and blessed in the finances department and in the family department but he could NOT appreciate a damn thing. Honestly, I did stay longer than I should of because of the money. I kept saying LOOK! LOOK! Look at what you have, you have so much! I am a wonderful person, your kids are wonderful, you live in a fabled city and do so well. You literally have it ALL! Why can't you just calm down and appreciate what you have . . .
> 
> But no, no way. Complain, complain, blame, blame, blame. He had to ruin it all. He had to literally ruin it all to "punish" the rest of the world for not "giving" him more or giving him the control over the planet he felt entitled to.
> 
> Jellybeans you are right, so right, no more lunatic and it is a blessing. When I was in it, I thought differently. I said I don't care if it costs me every penny or I have to go bankrupt, I am getting away from this abuser and stopping him from ever abusing the children again.
> 
> Then you escape and you are alike, Hmmmmm. I should have done things "a little" differently as you call your second attorney for the bankruptcy.
> 
> But it was all I could do to survive, literally. Now, I will rebuild it back - God Willing.
> 
> We should all meet at HardtoHandle's restaurant! Everyone pays their own way!
> 
> Ceegee the thread is about dating. Expectations, are you going to report us for going off topic?
> 
> xo 2gals


2gals,

My comment was tongue-in-cheek. I would never report you for going off topic. 

There's a lot of sexy women in this thread. Wouldn't want to ruin it.


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> At school and church I just assume all men are married, what am I going to do now?


*Step 1:* Stop assuming all men are married.


----------



## 2galsmom

Pbartender said:


> *Step 1:* Stop assuming all men are married.


OK. You see I am not a cheater. It is my issue now. I pick up my kids and I am like, I cannot look at that guy! He is married and someone's dad. This is my kids' school! etc. etc.

I have a good five months to go before I can date, my finances are still a mess. It took me 11 months after the divorce was finalized to realized how badly I had been "gaslighted." Embarrassing but true. So I took the past month to return online knowing SPIES were not everywhere and my friends on Facebook were really who they said they were. *sigh*

A lot of apologies went accepted and unaccepted.

Higher expectations are good all around. No more bull****.

I know you were joking ceegee. It was funny, and in all honesty I had to scroll and look for the real "topic" of the thread.

Make that ten months, I am not moving very fast . . .


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> OK. You see I am not a cheater.


What does that have to do with assuming men are married before you actually know whether they are or aren't?


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> What does that have to do with assuming men are married before you actually know whether they are or aren't?


If I may, 2gals, though now single, would see herself as a cheater if she engaged a married man. 

Correct?


----------



## Ceegee

2galsmom said:


> Correct.


You know that's ridiculous. 

I can see maybe being guarded, at this time, against nefarious men. But to think of yourself as a cheater if you fall into this trap is wrong. 

Did your ex do this to someone?


----------



## Ceegee

2galsmom said:


> Ok, so not a cheater but it is not entirely ridiculous. Most people my age and in my parental circuit are all married. Fact.
> 
> I have a former best friend that used to ask about married men at the school. I am the fallen Queen of The Active Mothers Club. My kids attended a private school, I was the Gala Fundraising Chairperson, class parent year after year, friend to the entire staff and knew just about every family at the school and everyone knew me. My "friend" used to want me to help her meet fathers (FYI they were always the celebrities or rich ones), really lady, I have enough problems without pimping you out.
> 
> My ex used to flirt and hit on other mothers at the school as well. He may or may not have had a fling with one of them, I of course confronted both, one denied it and one refused to answer me. It was one of the ways he humiliated me.
> 
> I want no part of that.
> 
> So I am enjoying my low-key anonymity at the public school now.


So date younger. Date older. Date whomever you want. 

Do what makes you comfortable but don't let his actions control your life. 

What your POS ex did is not a reflection on you. 

You are still a parent and there's no reason why you can't continue to participate.


----------



## Pbartender

Does "engaging" a married man have to include romantic thoughts or Intent?


----------



## coffee4me

Pbartender said:


> Does "engaging" a married man have to include romantic thoughts or Intent?


Not for me. I "engage" men in conversations at my kids school or activities the same way single as I did when I was married. I don't have any romantic thoughts or intent because I won't date anyone I meet at my kids school or activities. My kids are teenagers and I choose not to complicate their lives or add further drama or embarrassment to their already chaotic teenage existence. Just seems to me the respectful thing to do for them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pbartender

Your only choices are to chase them or run away from them?


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> I don't understand.
> 
> Who are you speaking to?


You.

Must every man be a potential mate? If they are already in a committed, long term relationship, why does that prohibit any other kind of meaningful relationship with them?

Why can't you be friends with a married man... And not just a business-like acquaintance, a real friend... without thinking of yourself as a cheater?


----------



## hope4family

2galsmom said:


> Heh heh, I knew you were talking to me.
> 
> Careful not to project too much of female stereotypes onto me, of course not every man is a potential mate. You see me chatting here with married men and their wives and I am chatting with other men in this thread without planning our nuptials.
> 
> You are making too much of my caution around married parents. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


That's it the wedding is OFF!

Created a dating profile the other night. God help us all.


----------



## Ceegee

2galsmom said:


> So since we are just friends I will tell you my last confession. My ex terrorized me for two years straight, day and night. He told me a man he worked with was terrorizing him, first because that man hated me and then because he had a "thing" for me and wanted me for himself, he was and is a married man.
> 
> I felt horribly as from the day I met that man I was attracted to him but never said or did anything to be unfaithful.
> 
> Then one day, when I told me ex that I was tired of hearing the blah blah blah conspiracy theory against him allegedly conducted by said married man, my ex tried to choke me to death because I defended him.
> 
> I should have left but instead I tried to help him and our save our "marriage." I dragged him to shrinks, medical doctors etc. with no compliance from my ex.
> 
> Then he told me that his boss AKA co-worker had a "thing" for me and was online spying on me. . .
> 
> Long story short, in spite of the obvious LIE, I then thought I was speaking to the married man I was attracted to online and thus told my ex if the married man loves me then I want a divorce.
> 
> Oops. The whole gas-lighting thing backfired on him.
> 
> It was all a lie and here I am single and hesitant to travel that dead end path again.
> 
> It is hard to describe what goes on when married to a sociopath, but it is not pretty. My ex must have known I had feelings for that guy and it was part of the cruelty I endured.
> 
> It will all be in my book or movie . . . *please God I need the $*
> 
> P.S. I really left the marriage to end the violence and save my kids but thinking there was someone who genuinely cared for me helped. FYI - the married dude is also another nightmare man. Another abuser so I am working hard to break old patterns.


:scratchhead:


----------



## 2galsmom

Exactly ceegee. :scratchhead:

I was with a psycho. :crazy:


----------



## Ceegee

2galsmom said:


> Exactly ceegee. :scratchhead:
> 
> I was with a psycho. :crazy:
> 
> And when your family tells you to "make it work, that's your bed lie in it" with a psycho you end up in crazytown. It is difficult to explain and not worth the effort. It happens over the years, slowly and then you say hey, that was a weird coincidence online, that must be such and such! Pyscho was right!
> 
> Well crazy no more, here I am.
> 
> Long story short, he projected all of what he was doing on me. I eventually came to believe I was as horrible as he was, which was the whole point. Apparently this is emotional abuse 101.
> 
> BTW ceegee you were not the cause of your ex-wife's migraines, that is also ridiculous.


I also lived in Crazy Town. That's the x's moniker - CT.

I know I wasn't the cause of her migraines. Never believed I was. She was unhappy with her situation and stressed over it. I was the closest to her so I took all of the blame. 

Who's going to get that blame now?


----------



## Jellybeans

Ceegee said:


> I know I wasn't the cause of her migraines. Never believed I was. She was unhappy with her situation and stressed over it. I was the closest to her so I took all of the blame.
> 
> Who's going to get that blame now?


Neurological problems? A curved neck? Diet, food, sleeping on her neck wrong, it could be a lot of different things. Stress, too.

I have a friend who's husband thought he was having another bad migraine just this week and turns out ti was a seizure. It does happen. (Migraines, that is).

Anywhoo........

Dating expectations.........thread topic... perhaps our expectations should bet hat we shouldn't have any. LOL

There really aren't any rules. It's a free for all!


----------



## Ceegee

2galsmom said:


> Jellybeans - I agree. I personally have no expectations re: dating. I think every situation and combination of people is different and you just have to see where it all goes.


Have no other expectations other than to have fun.

Leave past experiences in the past. Leave the future in the future.

Just enjoy the company of someone new.


----------



## Jellybeans

2galsmom said:


> Personally, although I do it here, I do not want to sit and rehash my "issues" and go blah blah blah psycho blah blah blah on a date. I also know women who date men who go on and on about the XW and those dates do not sound very much fun.


Nobody in the world would want to listen to that. If I went out with a man who kept talking about how their ex was psycho and went on and on about them, I would politely excuse myself.

AS the saying goes "Ain't nobody got time for that!" Plus, I firmly believe that if you are STILL talking about it, you are NOT over it. AND... any person who does not have a single kind word to speak of their exes, especially one who was a major part of their life, is a major red flag to me. No, thanks.


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> Careful not to project too much of female stereotypes onto me...
> 
> You are making too much of my caution around married parents.


I'm sorry you feel that way.


----------



## Ceegee

2galsmom said:


> Fun would be a good objective. Personally, although I do it here, I do not want to sit and rehash my "issues" and go blah blah blah psycho blah blah blah on a date. I also know women who date men who go on and on about the XW and those dates do not sound very much fun.


It's not ideal but can serve a purpose sometimes. 

If it's not going to go anywhere romantically anyway it's fun just meeting a new friend who has been there too.

Try to steer clear of it obviously, just don't put a lot of pressure on yourself to have everything go perfectly.

It's supposed to be fun. Why have all the pressure?

I've been on several dates in the past 6 months. Some of these women are still friends now. We don't go out but we'll talk on occasion. They are good people.

Now, I have a girlfriend that I've been seeing for a little over 2 months. Those dates gave me experience. They helped me learn more about what I was looking for. They gave me confidence to go after what I wanted.

I don't know if this relationship will last but I'll take from it whatever I learn just like I did with the dating experiences.


----------



## Jellybeans

2galsmom said:


> Would you perhaps go to the bathroom and never return?
> 
> j/k
> 
> ITA


LOL. No. I'm not that kind of woman. I would tell them "Hey, I don't want to talk about your ex and I'm not really feeling this date so let's save ourselves time and I am going to leave now. See ya."


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> And Pbartender, don't mistake my glib tone, I did not mean you any harm. Everyone in this thread has been greatly supportive. I hope everyone keeps their sense of optimism and finds success.


Hey, that's cool... Whatever.


----------



## badcompany

I think a little bit of info needs to come out about the ex, so your potential new partner understands why you're D'd.
A rant that spans 1/2 the date though, no thanks.


----------



## Ceegee

badcompany said:


> I think a little bit of info needs to come out about the ex, so your potential new partner understands why you're D'd.
> A rant that spans 1/2 the date though, no thanks.


That should come later. 

You may not see them again. Do you want to tell some stranger the sordid details about your POS ex?

If they ask, a simple "it's complicated" will suffice. No specifics. 

If a couple things slip out no problem. 

Just have fun and enjoy yourself.


----------



## angstire

This thread was the only spot I could think of to post this question. There is a sex and marriage forum (but this is a dating question, for sure) and I could have started a new thread in Men's Forum, but I wanted some ladies' opinions too.

I went out on a date with a woman last week and she's been very aggressive with sexting and such. Which is fine, because that fits my profile too. However, last night via text, she disclosed she doesn't give oral and hasn't since she was 17 (she's 35) because of a bet. My red flag radar went off and she continued and then it screamed. She further said that men have offered her 10 x the bet to get oral from her, and a dude offered her an uncut emerald when she was in Africa.

I heard this last night and all the interest I had in her was gone. Seems like huge red flags to refuse to do something for 20 years because of a bet. My guess is it's actually for another reason, but she threw the bet and other details out there as the reason and I'm suddenly not interested in another date.

Am I overreacting? Do I do another date just to find out more about this bet and if there is anything to be concerned about?

She's texted me twice already this morning.

First world problems.


----------



## CEL

angstire said:


> This thread was the only spot I could think of to post this question. There is a sex and marriage forum (but this is a dating question, for sure) and I could have started a new thread in Men's Forum, but I wanted some lady's opinions too.
> 
> I went out on a date with a woman last week and she's been very aggressive with sexting and such. Which is fine, because that fits my profile too. However, last night via text, she disclosed she doesn't give oral and hasn't since she was 17 (she's 35) because of a bet. My red flag radar went off and she continued and then it screamed. She further said that men have offered her 10 x the bet to get oral from her, and a dude offered her an uncut emerald when she was in Africa.
> 
> I heard this last night and all the interest I had in her was gone. Seems like huge red flags to refuse to do something for 20 years because of a bet. My guess is it's actually for another reason, but she threw the bet and other details out there as the reason and I'm suddenly not interested in another date.
> 
> Am I overreacting? Do I do another date just to find out more about this bet and if there is anything to be concerned about?
> 
> She's texted me twice already this morning.
> 
> First world problems.



One date now you got red flags. Umm I would probably pass on this one unless you are really into her. If you are then go ahead and see where the crazy road takes you. But really does this sound like something that is going to be more than a quick screw and leave it? And is that what you want?


----------



## stormydays

Yeah, sounds like Crazy Train to me. With whom did she make this bet? And for money? That does seem sketchy (and immature), and like a flimsy excuse.

I assume you lost interest not because of the oral prohibition but because she seemed a little off?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angstire

Cel, I really don't want a quick screw and leave. Hi sex drive good for LTR, so there was promise. But hi sex drive with crazy so early, time to pass and keep looking.

Stormy, Not at all because of the oral prohibition. If she had a reason, I would honor that. Who am I to tell her what she can and can't do with her body.

It's the flimsy excuse and what could be under it. One of my RL friends said try another date and find out more, but I think this is too much red flag, too soon.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## 2galsmom

She is a nutcase angstire. A complete nutcase.

A bet? An emerald? She has a screw loose.

I read an article to a link posted by ThreeStrikes in another thread and she sounds like a potential female abuser. Women with HD will not necessarily aggressively sext at first and often women who come on strong sexually like gangbuster initially are the ones who often deny you sex once the relationship has been committed to by a male.

As a female, I too have trouble with nutcase women who have screwed over me as friends. This one has RUN LIKE THE WIND tattooed to her face.


----------



## angstire

2gals, thank you, thank you, thank you. As soon as she said that my stomach dropped and interest disappeared.

My friend recommended a second date to check out the sitch, but I just shifted into another gear after she said that and need to listen to my gut, instead of give her the benefit of the doubt. I owe that to me, not her.

And she has come on STRONG.

I want HD, but I'll keep looking.

Thanks again. Send me 3strikes article via PM if you can find it. Please and thank you.


----------



## angstire

2galsmom said:


> The link is somewhere in a back thread. I will look for it unless ThreeStrikes magically appears and posts it again.


Actually he's pretty good at that; it's like a gift.


----------



## FeministInPink

I agree with the masses, and say this sounds like one crazy train you don't want to get on. Not only does she sound crazy, but she also doesn't sound very GGG, and that's a deal-breaker in my book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2galsmom

Here is the link. I highly advise staying far away from the hawt damsels in distress as well, in my experience they too come on like sexual gangbusters and then, well by then you are in Crazeeeetown.

Abused Men: How Covert Abuse Begins, Part One | Shrink4Men


----------



## angelpixie

2galsmom said:


> Here is the link. *I highly advise staying far away from the hawt damsels in distress as well*, in my experience they too come on like sexual gangbusters and then, well by then you are in Crazeeeetown.
> 
> Abused Men: How Covert Abuse Begins, Part One | Shrink4Men


Whitehawk -- are you out there? You might want to read this, too.


----------



## angstire

2galsmom said:


> Here is the link. I highly advise staying far away from the hawt damsels in distress as well, in my experience they too come on like sexual gangbusters and then, well by then you are in Crazeeeetown.
> 
> Abused Men: How Covert Abuse Begins, Part One | Shrink4Men


Yep, stbxw, soon to be called X2, was one of these. Sex was hot, hot, hot to begin with and then I was hooked. She was damsel in distress and I so wanted to rescue her. 8 years later, I find all is not as I thought it was. 

Oh well, now I'm older and wiser. 

thanks for the article! EDIT: read it, holy sheet, that was familiar for stbxw. Yuck. Dodging bullet here with Emerald girl. buh-bye


----------



## Jellybeans

angstire said:


> I went out on a date with a woman last week and she's been very aggressive with sexting and such. Which is fine, because that fits my profile too. However, last night via text, she disclosed she doesn't give oral and hasn't since she was 17 (she's 35) because of a bet. My red flag radar went off and she continued and then it screamed. * She further said that men have offered her 10 x the bet to get oral from her, and a dude offered her an uncut emerald when she was in Africa.
> *
> 
> I heard this last night and all the interest I had in her was gone.


I don't blame you. I would lose interest too if after only one date some dude is telling me he does not/will not/cannot go down on a woman because he has a long-standing bet and then starts "bragging" about how someone has offered them tons of money and/or jewelry in Africa.

No, thanks. 

That is way too much drama and just fcking weirdness after one date.

Plus... later down he line, say I were to want to keep seeing this person and we took it to an intimate level, just knowing upfront he doesn't do that would be a dealbreaker for me. I am a major fan of oral so if a guy wouldn't for me, adios amigo. I'd thank him for the info up front and move on.

Maybe she was trying to game you to see if you'd offer her money as a bet to see if she would do it and then she'd run off with your money.

Throw this one back in the pond and keep dating. Other women.


----------



## angstire

Jellybeans said:


> Maybe she was trying to game you to see if you'd offer her money as a bet to see if she would do it and then she'd run off with your money.
> 
> Throw this one back in the pond and keep dating. Other women.


Oh God, I hadn't even thought of that. Or setting it up for later.

Bullet dodged, like Neo in the Matrix.


----------



## Jellybeans

Yeah... she just sounds way too effing crazy.


----------



## angstire

Ok, another dating question. I've gone out a few times with a woman I like, but her divorce was due to his cheating (that's what I know now, it may be more complex).

She seems a little restrained when we talk, but the convos are still good. She's restrained a bit too with flirty touching, like hand holding in the car, but hugs and kisses on saying hello or goodbye have been fine. A couple of my woman friends said she has trust and intimacy issues due to the infidelity and that will be something difficult for her to navigate until she trusts me more. 

Where can I get some advice on how to understand what she's going through as she dates and not make some major mistakes? Or just trust my gut and see how things go?

Thanks!


----------



## Jellybeans

I need to get laid.

That is all. 

Damn dating and Singles of TAM threads. LOL

That's where my mind is at. 

Thought I'd share.


----------



## Jellybeans

angstire said:


> Where can I get some advice on how to understand what she's going through as she dates and not make some major mistakes? Or just trust my gut and see how things go?
> 
> Thanks!



Trust your gut. Thing is, if she has not healed from her previous relationship issues, then she is not going to be truly receptive to a new person. Anyone touched by infidelity is left with a freaking scar but it is all in the coping skills. And time. Of course. 

Does she talk about the ex and infidelity? Or do you know from another source? How long ago did that go down? is she single/separated/divorced? And how long for? 

If she is ready for you, she will be ready for you. If she still has hang-ups, that is something she needs to figure out on her own.

And this touchy-thing reminds me of the dates I went on with the one man who when I touched his arm being flirty was not receptive. I was like _WTF? Touch me back, Dammit! _ Alas, he kept his hands to himself and it was really fvcking with me. Girls want to be touched back, too.


----------



## angstire

What I know:

Divorced 2.5 years and she's been dating within last year, maybe longer. One relationship was 6 months.

She only mentioned it once, we haven't gotten into the details, but it's early days for that. That's like several months in stuff. Better to focus on our chemistry in the beginning, than dissect the failed marriages.

On our first date, immediate hug hello, touching me on the arm. I was surprised, but I'm physical, so liked it.

Date this weekend, held her hand in car, she moved her hands to talk then reset them further away, so I pulled back then she moved back in, so I held her hand again. Seems like she initiated on the first date, then I have been in subsequent dates.

I don't want to trample on her boundaries, but you make a good point; she needs to work her stuff out. If she hasn't, she'll let me know when I step over a line either physically or verbally. I'm a flirt and touchy, so probably just do what comes naturally and let her let me know one way or the other when she's not comfortable.

I like her, but I'm getting mixed messages that I haven't ran into before. It's possible I'm overthinking this. I do that sometimes.


----------



## angstire

Jellybeans said:


> And this touchy-thing reminds me of the dates I went on with the one man who when I touched his arm being flirty was not receptive. I was like _WTF? Touch me back, Dammit! _ Alas, he kept his hands to himself and it was really fvcking with me. Girls want to be touched back, too.


Yes, if girls touch guys, touch them back. They want that.


----------



## Jellybeans

angstire said:


> Yes, if girls touch guys, touch them back. They want that.


Precisely! It's not that hard to figure out! Hehehe.


----------



## FeministInPink

Jellybeans said:


> I need to get laid.
> 
> That is all.
> 
> Damn dating and Singles of TAM threads. LOL
> 
> That's where my mind is at.
> 
> Thought I'd share.


You are preaching to the choir, my friend. My STBXH was consistently witholding from me, so W(hy)TF does he get to get laid first? And consistently? NOT FAIR.


----------



## FeministInPink

angstire said:


> What I know:She only mentioned it once, we haven't gotten into the details, but it's early days for that. That's like several months in stuff. Better to focus on our chemistry in the beginning, than dissect the failed marriages.


Fair point, but if she talks about it, then you can gauge if she's healed or not. You can have great physical chemistry, but the relationship will crash and burn if she's not ready for emotional intimacy.


----------



## Jellybeans

FeministInPink said:


> You are preaching to the choir, my friend.


Hehe. Nice to know I'm not alone. :rofl:



FeministInPink said:


> Fair point, but if she talks about it, then you can gauge if she's healed or not. You can have great physical chemistry, but the relationship will crash and burn if she's not ready for emotional intimacy.


:iagree:

Listen to what she says and how she says it.


----------



## MEM2020

Angst,
Be careful to avoid the 'bad model' here. It goes like this:
Woman: I've been screwed over before.
Subtext: You need to undo the harm done by my prior partner. 

Woman: I've been screwed over before.
Subtext: I am really, really slow when it comes to getting sexual.

This is what I believe to be true. There are one of two things going on:
1. She is absolutely into you, and is also truly gun shy. 
2. She likes you, loves the attention but isn't that 'into you', so she is consciously or subconsciously hiding behind 'past hurts' to avoid getting in bed. 

Either way, the best approach is the same. Ensure she is making an effort to please you. I'm old fashioned so I am assuming yo are paying for the dates - as that is what I would be doing. If that is true, than read on. At the end of the third date you run some version of the script below. 

You: I had a great time tonight. 
Then let her respond. 

You: I'm going to let you plan our next date. 

If she happily says yes and then follows through, that is a good sign. If she doesn't like the idea, you are likely heading down a bad path. The path of "it's all about her". You will never have anything resembling balance if you allow that. 

Note some sample outcomes:
Her: I am a terrible cook. (This is the 'helpless female' script). Run away. You didn't ask her to cook. And that response is an example of 'willful' incomprehension. You are asking her to take you on a date and she is picking a reason she "can't". 
You: Ok (and then smile say good night and do not call her. She will either:
1. call and ask you out or 
2. call and 'forget' your request in the hope she can skip right by it, resulting in you continuing to make all the effort. This will be the call where she is just calling to 'see how you are doing'. Maybe even ask you what your weekend plans are. The subtext is 'I am giving you a chance to continue chasing me'.

If she asks about your weekend plans, have fun with it/her. 
You: I'm hoping you've planned a really fun date for us. 
(And then be silent - no matter how long the pause). If you get the confused 'what?', you are receiving 'determined and willful incomprehension'. The best move is to say, 'sorry I've got another call that I need to take, let's talk soon'. And then end it. She won't make it this hard if she likes you. 
3. never calls you - and then you just saved a lot of time, money and heartache. 

Just be careful of one thing. The expensive restuarant date. This is a subtype of willful incomprehension. The one where she chooses to interpret 'plan' to mean 'choose the place', as opposed to 'doing' something for you. 

----
If she does agree to making the next date happen, that is a genuinely positive sign. If she cooks great. Gets a movie and orders pizza, fine also. 

And let her set the pace on the touching. 




angstire said:


> Yes, if girls touch guys, touch them back. They want that.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

Jellybeans said:


> Hehe. Nice to know I'm not alone. :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> Listen to what she says and how she says it.


And you can also save yourself some time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angstire

Hi Mem, thanks for the advice. Good stuff and helpful.

My X2 was the I've been screwed over variety and then I tried to fix her. Now we're divorced. Lesson learned and eyes wide open looking for those type of women.

I'm not sure if Red is #1 or #2, I think #1; a couple more dates should show.

We split the first date, I paid for second after she objected and offered a couple times, but I insisted. She said she would be happy to split or pay for every other date (could indicate more dates?). I like some of that, but being the guy, I'd like to pay for 2/3 and let her have a couple or after dinner drinks, dessert, whatever.

I asked her to plan the last date; she claimed indecisive and after a week, I stepped into say hike and then dinner. She liked that, but she ended up picking the restaurant on the way to her house to change after the hike. Not sure what that means? Really is indecisive or something else? At dinner, they had half price bottles of wine and the bottle I picked wasn't on the sale list and she asked if I was sure I wanted the pricey one (only $36, but not $18 on sale); so I don't think she's trying to work me for expensive dates.

But the indecision on the date and the restraint on touching have me confused. I'm think I'll try your "plan a date" on her and see how that goes. I like her and she seems nice, but if I can't figure out what's going on with her, it could be a big red flag of problems to come, or at least a lot of stress and confusion in the coming months.


----------



## Pbartender

angstire said:


> Not sure what that means?


Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

angstire said:


> Ok, another dating question. I've gone out a few times with a woman I like, but her divorce was due to his cheating (that's what I know now, it may be more complex).
> 
> She seems a little restrained when we talk, but the convos are still good. She's restrained a bit too with flirty touching, like hand holding in the car, but hugs and kisses on saying hello or goodbye have been fine. A couple of my woman friends said she has trust and intimacy issues due to the infidelity and that will be something difficult for her to navigate until she trusts me more.
> 
> Where can I get some advice on how to understand what she's going through as she dates Aand not make some major mistakes? Or just trust my gut and see how things go?
> 
> Thanks!


Angstire, I have found that I am restrained on things as well after my last husband and the bf before him cheated on me. Part of it is having some fear about trust. But, the other part is that I decided since my approach to men had landed me nothing but the wrong men and heartache, that I needed to change it. I am naturally a touchy-feely person, affectionate, and a little flirty. I decided that I needed to pull back. This last guy that I started dating, I was dying to touch him on our first date and probably would have kissed him. But, that was what I would have done before, so I restrained myself. So, maybe she is in a similar mindset. 

So as you gain her trust, I am sure she will start feeling a lot more comfortable with you. The biggest thing? BE HONEST! About everything! She has let you in on her issues, so respect them, and expect the same from her, too. (or anyone else you date in the future)


----------



## MEM2020

Angst,
She is definitely cool from a $$ contribution standpoint. That is a good sign. 

Hey - my wife hates to plan dates. Not a game, she hates it. 

So you could /should ignore my earlier advice since she is signaling she wants you to lead. 

Only one suggestion. Give her a little edge next time you are together. But not by touch. Emotional edge. Example: Ask what her role was in the demise of her marriage? And don't let her skate. Example: Why does she think he cheated? 






angstire said:


> Hi Mem, thanks for the advice. Good stuff and helpful.
> 
> My X2 was the I've been screwed over variety and then I tried to fix her. Now we're divorced. Lesson learned and eyes wide open looking for those type of women.
> 
> I'm not sure if Red is #1 or #2, I think #1; a couple more dates should show.
> 
> We split the first date, I paid for second after she objected and offered a couple times, but I insisted. She said she would be happy to split or pay for every other date (could indicate more dates?). I like some of that, but being the guy, I'd like to pay for 2/3 and let her have a couple or after dinner drinks, dessert, whatever.
> 
> I asked her to plan the last date; she claimed indecisive and after a week, I stepped into say hike and then dinner. She liked that, but she ended up picking the restaurant on the way to her house to change after the hike. Not sure what that means? Really is indecisive or something else? At dinner, they had half price bottles of wine and the bottle I picked wasn't on the sale list and she asked if I was sure I wanted the pricey one (only $36, but not $18 on sale); so I don't think she's trying to work me for expensive dates.
> 
> But the indecision on the date and the restraint on touching have me confused. I'm think I'll try your "plan a date" on her and see how that goes. I like her and she seems nice, but if I can't figure out what's going on with her, it could be a big red flag of problems to come, or at least a lot of stress and confusion in the coming months.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

MEM11363 said:


> Angst,
> She is definitely cool from a $$ contribution standpoint. That is a good sign.
> 
> *Hey - my wife hates to plan dates. Not a game, she hates it.
> 
> So you could /should ignore my earlier advice since she is signaling she wants you to lead. *


Oh yeah! I forgot to mention that! I HATE being the one to plan dates! Whenever I try to think of something to do, I just, like...freeze!  (this is embarassing, sheesh!) I am just not a planner or an organizer, so I appreciate someone else taking the lead.


----------



## angstire

Mem and 3X, thanks again for the advice. Very helpful and exactly what I was looking for. I'll report back on how it goes.


----------



## angstire

MEM11363 said:


> Only one suggestion. Give her a little edge next time you are together. But not by touch. Emotional edge. Example: Ask what her role was in the demise of her marriage? And don't let her skate. Example: Why does she think he cheated?


I was planning to do this to find out more on a date (10th?), but is fourth or fifth too soon?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

angstire said:


> I was planning to do this to find out more on a date (10th?), but is fourth or fifth too soon?


Not in my opinion. I have had a similar discussion early in, I dont mind answering any question a date may have for me about this. To me, dealing with my answer may help weed out someone who isnt going to be empathetic.


----------



## angstire

3Xnocharm said:


> Not in my opinion. I have had a similar discussion early in, I dont mind answering any question a date may have for me about this. To me, dealing with my answer may help weed out someone who isnt going to be empathetic.


So, if I may pry, what was your answer? Or perhaps what is a reasonable answer from the betrayed spouse? I think that all couples have some split of responsibility in their break-up/divorce (true in my case, both times). 

What would a betrayed spouse who's put some reflection into their divorce claim for responsibility in the break-up when married to a cheater? Answers like he was a sex fiend or she was a broken person put all responsibility back on the cheater.

Short version, what kind of answer can I expect?


----------



## MEM2020

Yes. Too soon, you are right. 10th sounds about right. 

But light edge needs to happen now. Playful edge. Playful conflict. It creates desire. Nothing mean or harsh. 

Is she dating other folks in parallel? Are you? Nothing wrong with that at this stage as long as it isn't concealed. 




QUOTE=angstire;5200914]I was planning to do this to find out more on a date (10th?), but is fourth or fifth too soon?[/QUOTE]


----------



## angstire

MEM11363 said:


> Yes. Too soon, you are right. 10th sounds about right.
> 
> But light edge needs to happen now. Playful edge. Playful conflict. It creates desire. Nothing mean or harsh.
> 
> Is she dating other folks in parallel? Are you? Nothing wrong with that at this stage as long as it isn't concealed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> angstire said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was planning to do this to find out more on a date (10th?), but is fourth or fifth too soon?
Click to expand...

I am and I assume she is too. She said she has in the past. She mentioned that at dinner the other night, maybe to see how I'd react. I agreed and said that's a good policy until you find one person you just want to see. Enough playful conflict? Other suggestions, if that's not enough?

I've got no problem with dating other people; way too early to have the exclusive convo. 

If we get there, she'll choose me. I'm pretty awesome.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

angstire said:


> So, if I may pry, what was your answer? Or perhaps what is a reasonable answer from the betrayed spouse? I think that all couples have some split of responsibility in their break-up/divorce (true in my case, both times).
> 
> What would a betrayed spouse who's put some reflection into their divorce claim for responsibility in the break-up when married to a cheater? Answers like he was a sex fiend or she was a broken person put all responsibility back on the cheater.
> 
> Short version, what kind of answer can I expect?


Well Angstire, I have been divorced three times, so we are looking at a very lengthy answer, lol! I dont think there is a particular answer that you CAN expect, because everyone's marriage and divorce is such an individual thing. Maybe put a question out there like, who initiated the divorce. You can gauge whether or not to dig a little deeper based on her answer and how comfortable or uncomfortable she seems in responding to the question. You dont want to make her squirm!


----------



## angstire

3Xnocharm said:


> You dont want to make her squirm!


Thanks for the answer.

And yes, I do, but not how you meant. :rofl:


----------



## 3Xnocharm

angstire said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> And yes, I do, but not how you meant. :rofl:


I ALMOST put a disclaimer on that!


----------



## angstire

2galsmom said:


> I have no idea why my husband cheated. Anyone asks me that, let they are in for an earful. I think he cheated because A) he lacked self-control B) he enjoyed the game of it and doing things that broke the rules to say he was powerful. C) He did it because he got away with it for years and then one day it affected his job and the woman left her husband for him SUCKER that she is. D) who the **** cares I was not to blame!
> 
> anstire - if you word it to a woman who has trust issues like that, you look like an a$$Hole.
> 
> Look, I was fine with this thread up until the put her on the spot about *HIS* cheating. What do you want her to say? I got fat? I didn't get fat. Do you want her to say? I didn't F him enough? NO WAY! Some men have HD wives and they prefer hookers and secretaries anyway because of control issues and who the hell knows what. My husband cheated on me with UGLY women!
> 
> You are a man - you tell me I would be thinking!
> 
> That would be the last date with you if you lay that on me, I would say "Go ask him, good luck finding him, he is hiding with his money from the Feds."
> 
> The more pilates I did, the more work I had done on my skin, the HOTTER I got, the further from me he ran.
> 
> Don't do it.
> 
> I pushed my husband into marriage, he didn't want to be married. That is the best I can do, I will save the rest of the story for someone who treats me with respect on a date and doesn't suggest, which that question does, that I am to blame for his philandering.
> 
> Again do not do it.
> 
> It is her job now to put the investment into trusting YOU, a blank slate. It is on her, worry about how she treats you instead. You can't fix her, she has t choose to be brave and trust you.


And this is a good reason to not ask that specific question. 

What I do want ask anyone I date seriously, and I would be happy to answer: 'What have you learned from the divorce, failed relationship, etc. about you and what did you improve to make yourself ready for another serious relationship?"

I think that's a valid question. Asking about something like infidelity seems like it could be taken as victim-blaming and end things right there. I appreciate the advice, but 2gals is obviously reacting to a question like this as callous and some women may not, but I wouldn't want to risk being seen as callous over this question.

Now, my question, if anyone triggered over that, red flag city. My X2 has her issues, but at this point I would answer that question as she left me after she got what she wanted, I didn't see it coming and that's because I was naive about how well things were doing with us, I ignored signs that things weren't good because I wanted to believe they were good, I got angry is some fights and I let resentment build inside of me, instead of focusing on what I could control. I realize that stuff, I'm working on it and I think I'm ready for a mature relationship.

But I'll skip asking the infidelity question.


----------



## whitehawk

On my one and only sitch with someone new since my sep , within 15mins a bit from both of us about our own sorry tales came out . later through the night we both talked a lot about our stuff , her more than me .
We saw each other for 6 or 7 wks and both spent hrs talking about our own sitches through that , just how it happened. l held back a lot because l didn't wanna dump my crap on her but she told me the works .
Mind you , there was a lot of drinking, weed , music and all nighters in that time so things just came out whenever they did along the way sorta , like everything else .
She really appreciated the male ear and perspectives on everything that'd happened for her .

If everything's relaxed as it should be if there's anything there, personally l reckon any timing just takes care of itself.

But on her , l'd wanna know basics fairly soon , like a few dates max. Just that l wouldn't wanna start getting feelings on some one that's screwed around.


----------



## Jellybeans

2galsmom said:


> Long story short my husband was a Stage 5 Clinger.
> 
> He went from Stage 5 clinger to Hater.


:rofl:

Giiiirl, I can relate to that.


----------



## badcompany

"He went from Stage 5 clinger to Hater. Apparently, this is par for the course of BPD. The more I worked on my "role" in the cheating (getting in better shape, grooming impeccably, wearing attractive clothing, sending happy love filled emails, planning "date nights") the worse he treated me."

I can relate too, totally my stbxw.


----------



## Jellybeans

Apparently we were all married to the same person, in different bodies.


----------



## FeministInPink

Jellybeans said:


> Apparently we were all married to the same person, in different bodies.


Wait, when did my STBXH have time to be married to all of you as well???


----------



## FeministInPink

badcompany said:


> "He went from Stage 5 clinger to Hater. Apparently, this is par for the course of BPD. The more I worked on my "role" in the cheating (getting in better shape, grooming impeccably, wearing attractive clothing, sending happy love filled emails, planning "date nights") the worse he treated me."
> 
> I can relate too, totally my stbxw.


Aagh , me too!!!


----------



## MEM2020

To: 2Gals and any other betrayed spouse following this thread,
I am genuinely sorry. 

I framed 'an emotionally loaded question' in a manner that would upset / infuriate a BS. 

Apparently the mild case of Tourette's I suffer from has spread from mouth to finger tips. 

Angst,
I'm not usually this clumsy. 2Gals is right. A typical BS will nuke you over that question, especially framed that way. 

I do think it is a good idea to eventually open the door to a conversation about the overall marriage. Perhaps something like this: 

What did you like and dislike about being married?


QUOTE=2galsmom;5203978]I have no idea why my husband cheated. Anyone asks me that, let they are in for an earful. I think he cheated because A) he lacked self-control B) he enjoyed the game of it and doing things that broke the rules to say he was powerful. C) He did it because he got away with it for years and then one day it affected his job and the woman left her husband for him SUCKER that she is. D) who the **** cares I was not to blame!

anstire - if you word it to a woman who has trust issues like that, you look like an a$$Hole.

Look, I was fine with this thread up until the put her on the spot about *HIS* cheating. What do you want her to say? I got fat? I didn't get fat. Do you want her to say? I didn't F him enough? NO WAY! Some men have HD wives and they prefer hookers and secretaries anyway because of control issues and who the hell knows what. My husband cheated on me with UGLY women! 

You are a man - you tell me I would be thinking!

That would be the last date with you if you lay that on me, I would say "Go ask him, good luck finding him, he is hiding with his money from the Feds."

The more pilates I did, the more work I had done on my skin, the HOTTER I got, the further from me he ran.

Don't do it. 

I pushed my husband into marriage, he didn't want to be married. That is the best I can do, I will save the rest of the story for someone who treats me with respect on a date and doesn't suggest, which that question does, that I am to blame for his philandering.

Again do not do it.

It is her job now to put the investment into trusting YOU, a blank slate. It is on her, worry about how she treats you instead. You can't fix her, she has t choose to be brave and trust you.[/QUOTE]


----------



## angstire

MEM11363 said:


> Angst,
> I'm not usually this clumsy. 2Gals is right. A typical BS will nuke you over that question, especially framed that way.
> 
> I do think it is a good idea to eventually open the door to a conversation about the overall marriage. Perhaps something like this:
> 
> What did you like and dislike about being married?


sounds like a good place to start


----------



## badcompany

FeministInPink said:


> Wait, when did my STBXH have time to be married to all of you as well???


No kidding. I'm really glad to be off of that ride.


----------



## Ceegee

The point is to get a divorcee, BS or not, to talk about their own failures in the marriage. 

We all have them. 

They're not reasons for our x's to have cheated, but they are failures just the same.

Anyone says, I don't know or I didn't do anything, isn't being honest with you or themselves.

If they can't identify them they haven't worked on them.


----------



## angstire

Thanks to all for sharing their opinions and advice. It probably doesn't matter, but will be good for next time around. She has significantly reduced her contact the last couple days. She might be busy, but a man knows about these things (GOT reference). 

I'm not sure if she lost interest or I came on too strong with setting up a next date (we both have kids and different custody schedules, so getting things booked on the schedule is not easy and best done early, IMO) or maybe she's dating a ton of guys and likes to be pursued. I have no problem if she's dating a lot of guys, but if she's not into me, why would I invest my energy? That's what the last couple days feel like. I like to chase a little, but it seems like as I've increased the chase, she's downed her contact. Maybe when I back off, she'll ramp up? Maybe, but probably not the girl for me.

So, the advice has been good, how to discuss infidelity with a BS will be invaluable in the future (we're all divorced or had hearts broken at this point in the game (40s) and infidelity is probably involved in many of those sad stories) and I think I identified a type of woman that I just don't mesh with. Not enough feedback on how things are going, maybe just because she's really mellow. I need more exuberance than that. 

Anyway, I'll update if there's another date, but the tailing off of contact after a really good weekend and her saying as much, seems to indicate she's lost interest for whatever reason. I hope I'm wrong and I can write back tomorrow that she's back, but a man knows about these things.


----------



## Ceegee

angstire said:


> Thanks to all for sharing their opinions and advice. It probably doesn't matter, but will be good for next time around. She has significantly reduced her contact the last couple days. She might be busy, but a man knows about these things (GOT reference).
> 
> I'm not sure if she lost interest or I came on too strong with setting up a next date (we both have kids and different custody schedules, so getting things booked on the schedule is not easy and best done early, IMO) or maybe she's dating a ton of guys and likes to be pursued. I have no problem if she's dating a lot of guys, but if she's not into me, why would I invest my energy? That's what the last couple days feel like. I like to chase a little, but it seems like as I've increased the chase, she's downed her contact. Maybe when I back off, she'll ramp up? Maybe, but probably not the girl for me.
> 
> So, the advice has been good, how to discuss infidelity with a BS will be invaluable in the future (we're all divorced or had hearts broken at this point in the game (40s) and infidelity is probably involved in many of those sad stories) and I think I identified a type of woman that I just don't mesh with. Not enough feedback on how things are going, maybe just because she's really mellow. I need more exuberance than that.
> 
> Anyway, I'll update if there's another date, but the tailing off of contact after a really good weekend and her saying as much, seems to indicate she's lost interest for whatever reason. I hope I'm wrong and I can write back tomorrow that she's back, but a man knows about these things.


Relax. 

I'm sure whatever's keeping her from contacting you had more to do with her than you. 

If she works it out, great. If not consider yourself lucky.


----------



## angstire

Ceegee said:


> Relax.
> 
> I'm sure whatever's keeping her from contacting you had more to do with her than you.
> 
> If she works it out, great. If not consider yourself lucky.


Thanks and yes on the lucky.

Just figuring it out again.


----------



## angstire

2galsmom said:


> We could analyze her for hours and nor get it right. Maybe she is just not ready, could be as simple as that, the timing is off. You should not feel like you are doing all the work angstire.


Truth, hard to say what is up with her. And I do think I'm doing lots of work. Oh well.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

angstire said:


> Truth, hard to say what is up with her. And I do think I'm doing lots of work. Oh well.


I think you need a beer!


----------



## angstire

I'm on that!


----------



## FeministInPink

2galsmom said:


> I hope you enjoyed your beer.
> 
> Another FYI, *some people have had relationships where they have felt they were to blame for everything, and in fact they were told this by their ex-spouse, and part of their recovery is to accept that they are not. As they try to avoid past mistakes, the look for a relationship with a person who is not going to place the burden of success and happiness unjustly on their shoulders.*
> 
> I don't want to beat a dead horse (or a live one), we all agree discussing what we have learned is important but I found this link invaluable. I go to it frequently as I recover from what truly was hell on earth. This site in general helps me tremendously.
> 
> 
> Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder


I couldn't agree more!!! I spent so much time during my marriage being blamed by my STBXH, and blaming myself, for everything that was wrong in our relationship. I was constantly thinking/being told that everything was my fault.

It was a HUGE step for me to learn and *really understand* that responsibility for the failure of my marriage rested primarily on my STBXH's shoulders, and that I needed to stop punishing myself over it. This is what allowed me to move forward.

Anyone who pushes me to "accept responsibility" for the failure of my marriage? They have another thing coming! Because I did everything in my power to save/fix my marriage, and I did more, stuck around a lot longer, than most people would have in my situation. And how could someone who only just met me, who's only heard the tip of the iceberg, know me and my intimate, personal history better than I do?


----------



## wilderness

The only thing I'd like to add is that if there is not some heavy making out by the 2nd date I wouldn't bother with a 3rd date. Actions speak louder than words and if she isn't sexually attracted to you from the jump, it's not likely to get better over time. Really as I get older I might even modify that to the 1st date. A lot of times if she is really interested she'll make the move on you.


----------



## lisab0105

I am HD..like very very very very HD. I find as I get older the less I want to make anything about sex the first few dates I go on in the future. I am very newly single and when/IF I put myself out there, there won't be heavy making out on the first or even second date. Hell maybe not even the third and there sure as hell isn't going to be sex. 

Screwing around immediately was fun...when I was 22. I am not looking to screw around any more and I would venture say most women my age feel the same way I do. Or maybe not. 

I'll f'ck your brains out when it is the right time, but not a second before than.

ETA: The point is Wildnerness, whether we jump you or not the first three dates IS NOT indicative about our sex drive. AT ALL.


----------



## angstire

wilderness said:


> The only thing I'd like to add is that if there is not some heavy making out by the 2nd date I wouldn't bother with a 3rd date. Actions speak louder than words and if she isn't sexually attracted to you from the jump, it's not likely to get better over time. Really as I get older I might even modify that to the 1st date. A lot of times if she is really interested she'll make the move on you.


There was heavy making out, but it was after a lot of the hand holding dance and I wasn't sure if she was into me. 

This morning already, she's texting again, so...

I need to take the relax advice. See where things go. Ball's in her court for doing the schedule dance to figure out what works for next date.

If she wants to see me, I'll know. If not, that's good to know too.


----------



## wilderness

lisab0105 said:


> I am HD..like very very very very HD. I find as I get older the less I want to make anything about sex the first few dates I go on in the future. I am very newly single and when/IF I put myself out there, there won't be heavy making out on the first or even second date. Hell maybe not even the third and there sure as hell isn't going to be sex.
> 
> Screwing around immediately was fun...when I was 22. I am not looking to screw around any more and I would venture say most women my age feel the same way I do. Or maybe not.
> 
> I'll f'ck your brains out when it is the right time, but not a second before than.


My experience is that a lot of women will _say_ this, but in the moment that they are truly attracted to a guy on a date, all of those conviction go out the window. This isn't an indictment on women at all. It's kind of human nature...you go out with 10 people in a row that you are kind of wishy washy on, and then you meet someone that you really click with and you wait 5 dates to even kiss? Doesn't happen in my experience. I've never seen it, anyway.


----------



## angstire

2galsmom said:


> I hope you enjoyed your beer.


I did. :smthumbup:

Thanks for the link. I'll read that one to understand what may have happened for her.

You're dead on about neither party putting the burden of success and happiness on the other. It seems especially true with infidelity; she would be looking to trust me and not for me to be taking on her happiness as a responsbility, which her XH may have done.

Dating is fun, but I miss being married sometimes.


----------



## COGypsy

wilderness said:


> My experience is that a lot of women will _say_ this, but in the moment that they are truly attracted to a guy on a date, all of those conviction go out the window. This isn't an indictment on women at all. It's kind of human nature...you go out with 10 people in a row that you are kind of wishy washy on, and then you meet someone that you really click with and you wait 5 dates to even kiss? Doesn't happen in my experience. I've never seen it, anyway.


Turning it around, my ex waited 3 or 4 dates to even kiss me. I should have seen it for the portent of doom that it was. So much time wasted on such a useless man.....


I'm with wilderness on this--if there isn't some SERIOUS indication of sexual desire and the willingness to act on it in the first few dates, that's a fish that can go right back into the sea.


----------



## angstire

lisab0105 said:


> ETA: The point is Wildnerness, whether we jump you or not the first three dates IS NOT indicative about our sex drive. AT ALL.


I tend to think that a healthy minded HD woman would probably hold off until there was an emotional connection. Then, get the gatorade and vitamins! This is usually by date 3-4 though. My experience with women in the 35-45 bracket.

Women who throw sex out there right away and _say_ they're HD are using their bodies as a lure. If you read my story about the *bet* girl, I think that's what was going on.


----------



## lisab0105

wilderness said:


> My experience is that a lot of women will _say_ this, but in the moment that they are truly attracted to a guy on a date, all of those conviction go out the window. This isn't an indictment on women at all. It's kind of human nature...you go out with 10 people in a row that you are kind of wishy washy on, and then you meet someone that you really click with and you wait 5 dates to even kiss? Doesn't happen in my experience. I've never seen it, anyway.


I didn't say anything about kissing...but major making out and getting the panties off...no. And I know that a lot of women are full of sh*t when they say this too. They say it to make themselves look more demure than they actually are. Hard to get and all that crap. 

But some of us..(me) feels very anxious at the thought of moving into anything physical too fast. Anticipation is a very useful tool.


----------



## lisab0105

I need to change my avatar...I suddenly feel very weird talking about f'cking someone's brains out while I am holding my baby in that picture LOL


----------



## angstire

lisab0105 said:


> I need to change my avatar...I suddenly feel very weird talking about f'cking someone's brains out while I am holding my baby in that picture LOL


I'll bet fvucking someone's brains out led to a few babies. 

Just sayin


----------



## wilderness

lisab0105 said:


> I didn't say anything about kissing...but major making out and getting the panties off...no. And I know that a lot of women are full of sh*t when they say this too. They say it to make themselves look more demure than they actually are. Hard to get and all that crap.
> 
> But some of us..(me) feels very anxious at the thought of moving into anything physical too fast. Anticipation is a very useful tool.


Well, I was talking about making out, but I hear you. Let me say this, if there is such a woman out there like this, who will wait before making out heavily (and I've never run into one), she is likely to be very vocal about what she _wants_ to do. I'm sure she would say something along the lines of "I'm really attracted to you", "don't worry, good things come to those who wait," etc etc with a lot of flirting.

Point being, if a woman is really attracted to you, you'll KNOW it. There won't be anything to guess at because it will be obvious.


----------



## angstire

wilderness said:


> Well, I was talking about making out, but I hear you. Let me say this, if there is such a woman out there like this, who will wait before making out heavily (and I've never run into one), she is likely to be very vocal about what she _wants_ to do. I'm sure she would say something along the lines of "I'm really attracted to you", "don't worry, good things come to those who wait," etc etc with a lot of flirting.
> 
> Point being, if a woman is really attracted to you, you'll KNOW it. There won't be anything to guess at because it will be obvious.


This. Totally agree.

If you're in the land of confusion, like I am with Red, it's hard to tell if it's worth the energy. Pour all of my energy into someone and not know if they like it, like me, etc? I already did that and look where it got me.


----------



## angstire

2galsmom said:


> Back to kissing, honestly you do not want the needy clingers. So you won't find the perfect woman either and you should NOT dismiss someone who does not kiss or get it on with you immediately.
> 
> You want women to have learned from past mistakes don't you?
> 
> If it is months and then "nothing", okay that is too weird, but do not dismiss the people are are cautious. Better them than a Clinger that turns to Hater!



Perfect doesn't exist and learning is the best we can do to improve our changes of a good future relationship. So, yes to all of this. Although nothing for months sounds like a _really _long time. Like 2 months or 4? 



2galsmom said:


> I honestly cannot see me groping a man wildly I met at Match.com ten minutes after coffee. And I am a fabulous catch!
> 
> STUPID! No way.


Red flag city.


----------



## wilderness

angstire said:


> This. Totally agree.
> 
> If you're in the land of confusion, like I am with Red, it's hard to tell if it's worth the energy. Pour all of my energy into someone and not know if they like it, like me, etc? I already did that and look where it got me.


Right. What I'm trying to nicely say is that if she was really into you, you'd know it. I know I've had the following experience many times in my life:

1. Start dating a woman that seems to be sending me mixed signals all the time. At times seems to really like me, other times not so much. 
2. Waste a lot of time and effort and eventually have it blow up in heartbreak or frustration. Then break up.
3. A few months later meet someone that was definitely into me.
4. Said to myself, "so _this_ is what it's like when someone is into me...that other girl wasn't even close to as into me as this girl, how could I have been so blind?"


You'll see what I mean when you meet the right one for you.


----------



## lisab0105

2galsmom said:


> Back to kissing, honestly you do not want the needy clingers. So you won't find the perfect woman either and you should NOT dismiss someone who does not kiss or get it on with you immediately.
> 
> You want women to have learned from past mistakes don't you?
> 
> If it is months and then "nothing", okay that is too weird, but do not dismiss the people are are cautious. Better them than a Clinger that turns to Hater!
> 
> I honestly cannot see me groping a man wildly I met at Match.com ten minutes after coffee. And I am a fabulous catch!
> 
> STUPID! No way.


Lmao! You are a fabulous catch
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## COGypsy

angstire said:


> This. Totally agree.
> 
> If you're in the land of confusion, like I am with Red, it's hard to tell if it's worth the energy. Pour all of my energy into someone and not know if they like it, like me, etc? I already did that and look where it got me.


You've had two dates and a bunch of texting, is that right? Why on earth would you be pouring all of your energy into someone you've had a couple of casual dates with? They need to earn that kind of attention over time, not just because they accepted a date or two. I'd pull back some regardless, just based on the duration of your contact.


----------



## angstire

COGypsy said:


> You've had two dates and a bunch of texting, is that right? Why on earth would you be pouring all of your energy into someone you've had a couple of casual dates with? They need to earn that kind of attention over time, not just because they accepted a date or two. I'd pull back some regardless, just based on the duration of your contact.


You're correct, pulling back a bit is a good idea. 

Just to be clear, I haven't poured all of my energy into her. But lots. I have a first date tonight, another first date next week, so she doesn't get all the energy.  I like Red and she's confusing to me, so I'm putting in more energy than makes sense after three dates.

I'm reigning things in. My original post on this was to get some ideas on how to deal with the confusion of her holding back and if that was related to her XH's infidelity. I like her, but my comments on TAM have been more about learning how to deal with this sort of situation now and in the future.


----------



## MEM2020

Angst,
If she asks for a date - on a date that you've already scheduled with another woman, how will you respond?

I think it's best to simply say: I would like to do 'x', and am free on either x or y dates. This shows interest while making it clear you have your own life. 

This is better then, I have a conflict and far better than implying or saying you have another date. She is only entitled to know when you are free at this point, not why you aren't. 



UOTE=angstire;5244674]You're correct, pulling back a bit is a good idea. 

Just to be clear, I haven't poured all of my energy into her. But lots. I have a first date tonight, another first date next week, so she doesn't get all the energy.  I like Red and she's confusing to me, so I'm putting in more energy than makes sense after three dates.

I'm reigning things in. My original post on this was to get some ideas on how to deal with the confusion of her holding back and if that was related to her XH's infidelity. I like her, but my comments on TAM have been more about learning how to deal with this sort of situation now and in the future.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Ceegee

angstire said:


> You're correct, pulling back a bit is a good idea.
> 
> Just to be clear, I haven't poured all of my energy into her. But lots. I have a first date tonight, another first date next week, so she doesn't get all the energy.  I like Red and she's confusing to me, so I'm putting in more energy than makes sense after three dates.
> 
> I'm reigning things in. My original post on this was to get some ideas on how to deal with the confusion of her holding back and if that was related to her XH's infidelity. I like her, but my comments on TAM have been more about learning how to deal with this sort of situation now and in the future.


It really shouldn't require that much energy at all. 

With a good match it should feel natural; not effortless necessarily, but comfortable. 

You sound like me about 3 months ago. Difference is we talked way too much in the beginning. Went too fast.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> It really shouldn't require that much energy at all.
> 
> With a good match it should feel natural; not effortless necessarily, but comfortable.
> 
> You sound like me about 3 months ago. Difference is we talked way too much in the beginning. Went too fast.


Talk less - do more


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> Talk less - do more


Talk less, yes. 

We did plenty...


----------



## badcompany

I'll admit I've started to dabble in online dating a touch, very carefully. While we've continued living in our house, we are in separate rooms and after the kids go to bed its me and the computer or a book/magazine. I've never been so bored and lonely in my life. So far it's been very disappointing despite the fact that I got a lot of interest. After I filtered out all the women that could lose me in the their butt crack, a couple ethnicities I don't care for, and of course personalities, it left me with two FWB offers and one really nice gal that was such a good match but was really "in a shell" and I don't have much hope she'll call me back after what I thought was a pretty good first date.


----------



## whitehawk

Conrad said:


> Talk less - do more



Con , bet no ones ever said that to you 
Have you ever actually written a sentence round here ? Won't even bother asking about paragraphs


----------



## whitehawk

like a few guys round TAM right now , the last thing l feel like is sex.
Dunno if that would change if she has what it takes or not but l'd feel like slapping a girl right now if she tried jumping me .
l just wanna get to know her right now , find respect for her, as a women and a person.


----------



## FeministInPink

whitehawk said:


> like a few guys round TAM right now , the last thing l feel like is sex.
> Dunno if that would change if she has what it takes or not but l'd feel like slapping a girl right now if she tried jumping me .
> l just wanna get to know her right now , find respect for her, as a women and a person.


Whitehawk -- as a woman, I find that refreshing! So many men just want to get in our pants (or under our skirts!), that the fact that you want to take it slow will probably make a woman want you more, so long as she knows that you find her attractive and sexy. And there's also something really hot about that anticipation and build-up.

And I think if you find a woman who does it for you, you'll start thinking about sex right quick 

Personally, I'm thinking about sex all the time - my STBXH all but cut me off about two years into our marriage, so I've been frustrated in that arena for way too long. Even so, I'm not going to immediately jump in the sack with the first guy that shows interest. Like you, I'm looking to get to know a man and make sure that HE respects ME, and I'm also looking for those red flags I missed/didn't realize were red flags with my STBXH. I know now that I have not-good-for-me patterns about choosing men, and I'm looking to break those patterns.


----------



## Jellybeans

FeministInPink said:


> And there's also something really hot about that anticipation and build-up.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

It is AMAZING


----------



## angstire

MEM11363 said:


> Angst,
> If she asks for a date - on a date that you've already scheduled with another woman, how will you respond?
> 
> I think it's best to simply say: I would like to do 'x', and am free on either x or y dates. This shows interest while making it clear you have your own life.
> 
> This is better then, I have a conflict and far better than implying or saying you have another date. She is only entitled to know when you are free at this point, not why you aren't.


I will tell her I'm busy and leave it at that. She hasn't pried when I've said I'm going out for dinner when she asks what I'm doing. Fact is I had another date and the next morning, from her: I hope your dinner was good. So, she's not jumping into jealousyville, which is a good sign.

I've put the ball in her court on our next date. I'm not asking again. I've made it clear with kid schedules that figuring out timing in advance is a good idea. Fact is, I'll start to make plans for my next kidless week (Nov 8) this weekend and next week. I'm done asking. I've asked her out, she said yes, but needs to let me know on a date for our date. She'll either come up with a date in the next few days or my weekend will be booked with my other stuff. 

What I knew would happen is happening, I'm losing interest. This is starting to feel like work; I'm not sure where I stand and there are other dates out there. Hopefully I'll hear from her with a plan this weekend. If not, meh. I'm getting back to 50K on Red.


----------



## angstire

Ceegee said:


> It really shouldn't require that much energy at all.
> 
> With a good match it should feel natural; not effortless necessarily, but comfortable.
> 
> You sound like me about 3 months ago. Difference is we talked way too much in the beginning. Went too fast.


Agreed on shouldn't be much effort. I had a first date last night and....CLICK. It was there.

I'm talking to you lot for advice on a type of woman I haven't run into before. With her, calm and cool. Not a lot of talk, other than some flirting, Halloween plans, etc. I've asked twice about setting up our next date, she's said she will look at schedules; we'll see.

Talking to friends IRL, they advise if I'm this confused about her interest now, she's being a tease, intentionally or not, and it's not going to change in 6 months, 12 months, etc. They advise this is not going to be what I want and don't cut her loose necessarily, but be ready for doing that once I confirm that this dance will continue. More advice from all quarters is good. 

I talk on TAM because it's valuable, with her, I don't have much to say. I've expressed interest in her. I've expressed interest in another date. Not much more to say to her at this point.


----------



## FeministInPink

Jellybeans said:


> FeministInPink said:
> 
> 
> 
> And there's also something really hot about that anticipation and build-up.
> 
> 
> 
> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> It is AMAZING
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah... and once you DO have sex? SO MUCH BETTER!!! (than if you had jumped in right away)


----------



## angstire

badcompany said:


> I'll admit I've started to dabble in online dating a touch, very carefully. While we've continued living in our house, we are in separate rooms and after the kids go to bed its me and the computer or a book/magazine. I've never been so bored and lonely in my life. So far it's been very disappointing despite the fact that I got a lot of interest. After I filtered out all the women that could lose me in the their butt crack, a couple ethnicities I don't care for, and of course personalities, it left me with two FWB offers and one really nice gal that was such a good match but was really "in a shell" and I don't have much hope she'll call me back after what I thought was a pretty good first date.


If you don't KNOW you're ready, take it slow. Try a first date if you think you are. If you have fun, proceed sir. If you're nervous, feel ill or like you've cheated, retreat a little and work on you before venturing out again.

I had a first date last night and my carpool friend asked me if I was nervous. "Nope, not really. Actually not too excited at this point, but we'll see." Really good first date, fun talking, flirting, it turned into 5 hours of chatting and a CLICK. 

If dating feels like work or you're overthinking it, probably take some time to get to the point that you're ready to have some fun.


----------



## angstire

whitehawk said:


> like a few guys round TAM right now , the last thing l feel like is sex.
> Dunno if that would change if she has what it takes or not but l'd feel like slapping a girl right now if she tried jumping me .
> l just wanna get to know her right now , find respect for her, as a women and a person.


I am on the other end of that spectrum. Sex? Yes, please.


----------



## whitehawk

FeministInPink said:


> Whitehawk -- as a woman, I find that refreshing! So many men just want to get in our pants (or under our skirts!), that the fact that you want to take it slow will probably make a woman want you more, so long as she knows that you find her attractive and sexy. And there's also something really hot about that anticipation and build-up.
> 
> And I think if you find a woman who does it for you, you'll start thinking about sex right quick
> 
> Personally, I'm thinking about sex all the time - my STBXH all but cut me off about two years into our marriage, so I've been frustrated in that arena for way too long. Even so, I'm not going to immediately jump in the sack with the first guy that shows interest. Like you, I'm looking to get to know a man and make sure that HE respects ME, and I'm also looking for those red flags I missed/didn't realize were red flags with my STBXH. I know now that I have not-good-for-me patterns about choosing men, and I'm looking to break those patterns.



Thanks Fem and yeah , dunno , maybe she would.
Anyway stick to your guns hey your on the right track. Best thing a person can do for themselves right now l say, good for you


----------



## whitehawk

angstire said:


> Agreed on shouldn't be much effort. I had a first date last night and....CLICK. It was there.
> 
> I'm talking to you lot for advice on a type of woman I haven't run into before. With her, calm and cool. Not a lot of talk, other than some flirting, Halloween plans, etc. I've asked twice about setting up our next date, she's said she will look at schedules; we'll see.
> 
> Talking to friends IRL, they advise if I'm this confused about her interest now, she's being a tease, intentionally or not, and it's not going to change in 6 months, 12 months, etc. They advise this is not going to be what I want and don't cut her loose necessarily, but be ready for doing that once I confirm that this dance will continue. More advice from all quarters is good.
> 
> I talk on TAM because it's valuable, with her, I don't have much to say. I've expressed interest in her. I've expressed interest in another date. Not much more to say to her at this point.



Yep , afraid l get no vibes at all on her either for you Angs . Doesn't matter though really does it.


----------



## Jellybeans

FeministInPink said:


> Oh, yeah... and once you DO have sex? SO MUCH BETTER!!! (than if you had jumped in right away)


Omg, yesssssssssssssss!


----------



## Jellybeans

Ceegee said:


> You sound like me about 3 months ago. Difference is *we talked way too much in the beginning. Went too fast*.


How much is too much? I am curious.

And what is a good pace?


----------



## whitehawk

Jellybeans said:


> How much is too much? I am curious.
> 
> And what is a good pace?



Ahh , think that'd only really matter if it's gonna fizzle anyway JB.
My x and l talked 100's of all nighters in our first few yrs , didn't hurt us, we use to lose our voices in fact , all the time. Still at it 16 yrs later actually.
Ironically it was not talking for once in our last few that basically lead to bringing us undone. There was such huge stuff going on , yet with stresses and stuff , it never got touched on until it was too late.


----------



## angstire

2galsmom said:


> angstire, you know the drill adios toots
> 
> I will look into it? Don't bother.
> 
> Too many fish in the sea.


Yes 2Gals, truth. Esp. after a date that I was meh on before that went CLICK. She already wants to make plans for next weekend. 

Red still can't provide a date. Interest, draining away. 

It's not that tough. Figure out if you want to get together for a meal, convo and some making out. That's on the top of my list for kidless weekends (esp since the Vikes are done for the year; let the rebuilding begin).


----------



## angstire

whitehawk said:


> Yep , afraid l get no vibes at all on her either for you Angs . Doesn't matter though really does it.


Not really. I think the wanting her because of chasing her was a bigger lure than her. Some really cool things about her, but for whatever reason, we're not at the same spot regarding each other.


----------



## Jellybeans

I want to do some making out. Dammit. I am so sexually frustrated guys and all of your stories are not helping one bit.


----------



## angstire

Sorry. _Inappropriate comment kept to self._


----------



## FeministInPink

Jellybeans said:


> I want to do some making out. Dammit. I am so sexually frustrated guys and all of your stories are not helping one bit.


Me, too. Dammit.


----------



## badcompany

Jellybeans said:


> I want to do some making out. Dammit. I am so sexually frustrated guys and all of your stories are not helping one bit.


So where do I send the airline tickets?


----------



## Jellybeans

Haha, funny badcompany.

Thanks for thinking of me, all. 

I am living vicariously through all of your fun stories.  So get some and enjoy it!


----------



## Jellybeans

Yeaaaah...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> Yeaaaah...


Won't you be my neighbor?


----------



## angstire

2galsmom said:


> My go-to blow off with everyone, is "I will check my calendar/schedule and get back to you." If I want to see you I can magically weave you in without checking! Lo and behold . . .
> 
> Don't be someone's backup or standby date angstire.


Yep, that was my read too. I'm the backup plan. 

Only, I choose not to be. Next kidless weekend is already booked with man-dates and lady dates. Sleeping in and computer games. And maybe raking. Maybe.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Well, its over with Mr No Chemistry. He still wasnt feeling it between us, despite the fact that he really likes me. So I am licking my wounds today.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

2galsmom said:


> Have no regrets 3x. You are likable and he is not the person for you.


Thanks. Evidently I am likable, but not attractive.


----------



## lisab0105

3Xnocharm said:


> Thanks. Evidently I am likable, but not attractive.


Tell me he didn't say that? 

You are beautiful. He's an @ssbag.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angstire

3Xnocharm said:


> Thanks. Evidently I am likable, but not attractive.


Sorry.


----------



## moto164

I got a peak at you the other night when you flashed your picture on another thread, your very attractive 3X


----------



## angstire

moto164 said:


> I got a peak at you the other night when you flashed your picture on another thread, your very attractive 3X


yup, hottie.


----------



## DADX2

Try this information
Codependency 101.com


----------



## whitehawk

Attractions a strange thing , it's a very personal thing with lots of tweaks.
Sometimes it's nothing to do with attractiveness itself or looks, for me anyway.
The person , mannerisms , the way she talks, tastes and personality traits, anything can make it for us or break it l think no matter what the package or who we are.
l think it's a very complicated personal thing for everyone so if someone doesn't feel that way it's often nothing to do with the wrapping anyway.


----------



## angstire

First off, Death and Taxes, sorry for hijacking your thread, but this has been a good spot to discuss dating. Thank you.

Secondly, thanks to all on the thread for the advice; I appreciate it.

Thirdly, after some thought the last few days, aside from realizing I'm the backup plan (or she's just weird about schedules), I'm not really that into Red. I like her taste in music and her outdoorsiness (a word?) and her fitness. What I've liked most is the attention from her and chasing her. Backing up a bit helped realize I wanted to catch her, not so much for her, but for winning the chase.

Dealing with rejection again (even though I haven't heard it officially from Red) was something I wanted to avoid and thus the chase. I'm learning a lot about me from dating. I'm seeing some of my bad behaviors first hand and because I'm noticing them, I'm able to work on them in the live laboratory of dating. :smthumbup:

So, if you're ready for dating, I'd advise doing it. It's a good way to test yourself and work on your relationship skills. It's also thrilling and humbling.


----------



## whitehawk

How did you manage to meet them all anyway Ang?
Feel like l'm doomed round here , even most of my d's friends mums are shockers. Some of them have been really nice but down hill these days - now that l'm single


----------



## angstire

Online. I had a good convo with an online prospect and we talked on the phone about our experiences, war stories, etc. 

It's just as bad for women as we men with crazies. People who have a train full of baggage, aren't over their exes, etc.

Persevere, I guess.

We did discuss meeting in bar, church, grocery store, etc. versus online. Online you can resolve things like want kids, divorced, faith, etc. but it's just as much of a crap shoot on it working out past date 1. 

I met a nice woman in a bar last weekend. We had a lot in common, had a good convo and I thought we'd have an actual date. She gave me her number and wanted contact, but has ignored two attempts to engage with her. I'm not sure, but maybe some wake up in the morning and say, that was fun, but not worth continuing. I'm not sure?

Oh well, I'd say online is a good place to start. I assume they have match and plenty of fish in the UK, but those are the two big ones in the US. Writing a profile is a good start on saying what you want, who you are, etc. It can help collect your thoughts and force you to focus on what matters to you in a date and life.

But, profiles and pictures can be misleading. Be prepared for disappointment on that first date. Also, be prepared to be excited for the second. 

Good luck.


----------



## angstire

Oh and I think LisaB wrote a take no prisoners dating profile on one of her threads. Check that out.


----------



## angstire

Another thing I've noticed in online dating, there are more than a handful of widowed women in their 40s. WTF is that about? Too young, says I.


----------



## angstire

whitehawk said:


> Attractions a strange thing , it's a very personal thing with lots of tweaks.
> Sometimes it's nothing to do with attractiveness itself or looks, for me anyway.
> The person , mannerisms , the way she talks, tastes and personality traits, anything can make it for us or break it l think no matter what the package or who we are.
> l think it's a very complicated personal thing for everyone so if someone doesn't feel that way it's often nothing to do with the wrapping anyway.


If they're eating correctly and staying fit, they will be in good shape and attractive to behold. If not, whether 50 or 25, they're going to be unattractive.

I accept this, but I've heard some men my age don't. A woman who's 45 and in shape will still look like she's lived for 45 years, had two kids and had gravity pull it's nasty tricks. I think they're still sexy, but they don't look like they did when they were 25. But then, neither do we.


----------



## FeministInPink

angstire said:


> Oh and I think LisaB wrote a take no prisoners dating profile on one of her threads. Check that out.


Any way you could link to it? I tried doing a search and couldn't find it.

And I can use all the help I can get.


----------



## angstire

FeministInPink said:


> Any way you could link to it? I tried doing a search and couldn't find it.
> 
> And I can use all the help I can get.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-a...-you-say-your-dating-profile.html#post5062266


----------



## lisab0105

FeministInPink said:


> Any way you could link to it? I tried doing a search and couldn't find it.
> 
> And I can use all the help I can get.


Feel free to steal any and all of it if it works for you :smthumbup:


----------



## Conrad

lisab0105 said:


> Feel free to steal any and all of it if it works for you :smthumbup:


A Cardinal football fan?


----------



## FeministInPink

angstire said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-a...-you-say-your-dating-profile.html#post5062266


Thanks!


----------



## FeministInPink

lisab0105 said:


> Feel free to steal any and all of it if it works for you :smthumbup:


That is a great profile. I won't steal it, but I might use it as a model. As it is, I'm not getting any hits except the "Hey, lady, how's your day going?" with no profile pic variety.


----------



## FeministInPink

lisab0105 said:


> Feel free to steal any and all of it if it works for you :smthumbup:


LOVE your signature, BTW!


----------



## lisab0105

Conrad said:


> A Cardinal football fan?


Hell Yes! Love the Big Red Rage! If I could have him, I would marry Fitz tomorrow.


----------



## lisab0105

FeministInPink said:


> LOVE your signature, BTW!


Thank You!!


----------



## Conrad

lisab0105 said:


> Hell Yes! Love the Big Red Rage! If I could have him, I would marry Fitz tomorrow.


He's a superb football player.

Yet, the guy you work for is likely their owner's brother.

Fits the description to a "T"


----------



## lisab0105

FeministInPink said:


> That is a great profile. I won't steal it, but I might use it as a model. As it is, I'm not getting any hits except the "Hey, lady, how's your day going?" with no profile pic variety.


Dealing with replies is as bad as reading through one bad profile after another. 

One of my favorite 1st time replies from a guy "Hi, you're hot. I am in your town right now, can I come over?" Because I must of had "I'm a ****ty skank" written somewhere on my profile 

If you want any help, let me know. I am pretty good at profiles, resume's and help wanted ad's. LOL :smthumbup:


----------



## death and taxes

No worries about any thread hi-jacking.  It's a good thread. I don't claim ownership. I think I got the advice I needed. I still don't think there was anything I could have done to salvage the relationship. I'm not back onto the dating scene. Just trying to enjoy myself and not worry about finding 'the one'.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

lisab0105 said:


> Tell me he didn't say that?
> 
> You are beautiful. He's an @ssbag.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, he kinda did. Evidently he was disappointed that I didnt look like my profile pic. Yes I have put on some weight, but didnt think that it was so much that it would make that kind of difference.  (about 17-18lbs) He didnt say it in a way that he was trying to be hurtful, I had told him I wanted him to be honest. I do give him credit for honesty, anyway. He was looking for a knock your socks off kind of chemistry.


----------



## angstire

death and taxes said:


> No worries about any thread hi-jacking.  It's a good thread. I don't claim ownership. I think I got the advice I needed. I still don't think there was anything I could have done to salvage the relationship. I'm not back onto the dating scene. Just trying to enjoy myself and not worry about finding 'the one'.


Despite the Matrix, there is no one. Rather ones.


----------



## FeministInPink

lisab0105 said:


> Dealing with replies is as bad as reading through one bad profile after another.
> 
> One of my favorite 1st time replies from a guy "Hi, you're hot. I am in your town right now, can I come over?" Because I must of had "I'm a ****ty skank" written somewhere on my profile
> 
> If you want any help, let me know. I am pretty good at profiles, resume's and help wanted ad's. LOL :smthumbup:


Ha ha, so true. 

I can't believe someone sent you that message! BLOCK!

I might need some doctoring to my profile - I only have one up, on *******. I think I'm going to put it to sleep for the time being, though. My friend - who's quite the photographer - has offered to take some photos for me, since nearly all my photos are old or have my STBXH in them. I've decided to wait on the photos. I've started to lose weight, and I'd like to get a little further along with that first, so I have pics that I like.

It's hard being a plus-size single in one of the fittest cities in the nation - especially when the single women outnumber the single men!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## whitehawk

Yeah , you could say l've met two great girls since all this but one was still a total mess 4yrs out from her x. real shame , she was perfect , just really screwed up.
The other one's a gorgeous girl and considering what she's been through with her sep' , she's sorta got a good mind and will make a gorgeous partner for someone when she meets new one day , he'll be a lucky man.
But for me she just went a bit flat , nothing l can do . You can't make it there can ya.
Amongst it has been one of my d's friends mums , her and me always clicked in a really nice way.
l'd drop the girls of and we'd end up talking for hrs every time. But l haven't seen her for 18nths and man , dunno what happened but she's packed it on and looks totally different. 
She was a real cutie only 2yrs ago.


----------



## whitehawk

lt's a maze just to chose one club l've found. But so far l've just dabbled really , really l just can't be effd with it . They aren't me l know that but it just seems the way lately doesn't it.
Strangest thing , contradictory , l met my x in one though .
They were different then though and this was just one in the paper. lt was really cool actually, you just rang up , join , did a form with a bit about your self that they just asked you over the phone right then and there, next minute they're posting you out matches .
l had more girls than l knew what to do with.
Once a wk they'd send you out 5 or 10 new girls , it was just a simple piece of paper saying a bit about her and a phone number. She got the same. You'd just ring each other up and take it from there.
l met up with about 10, got one stalker out of it :lol: and was juist about to quit when my x arrived in the mail. ha ha . And here l am hey , 19yrs later on TAM, hmm , maybe l should givem a miss :rofl:


----------



## whitehawk

angstire said:


> Online. I had a good convo with an online prospect and we talked on the phone about our experiences, war stories, etc.
> 
> It's just as bad for women as we men with crazies. People who have a train full of baggage, aren't over their exes, etc.
> 
> Persevere, I guess.
> 
> We did discuss meeting in bar, church, grocery store, etc. versus online. Online you can resolve things like want kids, divorced, faith, etc. but it's just as much of a crap shoot on it working out past date 1.
> 
> I met a nice woman in a bar last weekend. We had a lot in common, had a good convo and I thought we'd have an actual date. She gave me her number and wanted contact, but has ignored two attempts to engage with her. I'm not sure, but maybe some wake up in the morning and say, that was fun, but not worth continuing. I'm not sure?
> 
> Oh well, I'd say online is a good place to start. I assume they have match and plenty of fish in the UK, but those are the two big ones in the US. Writing a profile is a good start on saying what you want, who you are, etc. It can help collect your thoughts and force you to focus on what matters to you in a date and life.
> 
> But, profiles and pictures can be misleading. Be prepared for disappointment on that first date. Also, be prepared to be excited for the second.
> 
> Good luck.



Ahh yeah , thanks Ang.
Just as bad for the girls you reckon . Well that sorta makes me feel better because it's bad , but you'd imagine it's more the worlds your ouster for the girls so that's a relief actually.
At the end of the day though even if they can meet 100s of guys online , l spose it's still a level playing field as far as meeting the "right" guy though isn't it.
We've known dozens of girls over the years that've been single for years.
Alot of them online even mention numbers do you guys find that. Single like 5 yrs or something , some even 10 so it can't be that easy.

l'm absolutely [email protected] scared about finding an attraction . l'm not use to this age group , my x was 11yrs younger than me and she was really youngish for her age in looks and personality , we both are. 
And then it's always younger girls that have always liked me more so to so now , whole new playing field.
It brings in music tastes too , what you like to do and how you like to live, even movies and stuff and then looks and figure . l'm in real good shape and l like that in a girl too .
l like to party to , always have , still do and although a lot think they're party animals theirs's is like an old peoples home compared to the way we use to live so it's all a really tricky business.
My x said to me just the other night , God l feel like a duck out of water with the guys that are around , l said that'll fkg teach you , so do l with the girls.
It's a very obvious solution l know , but hey l'm not saying it to her .

Maybe one day we both realize though how stupid all this is and just R for crying out loud :rofl:.


----------



## whitehawk

lisab0105 said:


> Dealing with replies is as bad as reading through one bad profile after another.
> 
> One of my favorite 1st time replies from a guy "Hi, you're hot. I am in your town right now, can I come over?" Because I must of had "I'm a ****ty skank" written somewhere on my profile
> 
> If you want any help, let me know. I am pretty good at profiles, resume's and help wanted ad's. LOL :smthumbup:




l want help so me let you know lisa. But hey meanwhile l'm in your town tonight , mind if l come over :rofl::rofl::rofl:

PS. lately l've been thinking we'd have to be a moron expecting to meet someone worthwhile on one of those things. So the idea must be not to meet her or him. But just that by the time you finish trying to f a round with profiles and weed out terrible contacts , you've just bumped into someone real in real life anyway.
So it's all just designed not to meet them but to keep you busy and just distract us while we're waiting that's all :scratchhead:


----------



## FeministInPink

OK, so here's a question for the masses:

*Thoughts on speed dating?*

I feel like I'm the sort of person who does better in person than on a dating site (I feel like I don't photograph well, and I think that comes through in my photos???), and there are LOTS of speed dating opportunities in DC.

I've been doing more MeetUp group stuff/activities, but I haven't yet met anyone through these venues that I'm interested in dating, or who isn't already paired up. I'm enjoying the MeetUps, and I'm LOVING being more social and just getting out and doing more things, but I don't think I'm hitting my target demographic.

So, speed dating! Have you tried it? If so, what did you think of it? If not, why not? Any words of wisdom/advice? What to talk about, what questions to ask? Are the ones that require payment any better than the free/low-cost ones?

I'm bringing it up because there's a speed dating session coming up on the 13th, and I have until Friday to buy my ticket ($30). If I decide to try it.


----------



## angstire

Haven't tried speed dating, but I've heard it can be hit or miss. Might be a good way to get back into things. Like practice.

I'm more of a 1:1 guy, so I like the quick first date, see how it goes and decide if there will be a second. 

My $.02.


----------



## lisab0105

FeministInPink said:


> OK, so here's a question for the masses:
> 
> *Thoughts on speed dating?*
> 
> I feel like I'm the sort of person who does better in person than on a dating site (I feel like I don't photograph well, and I think that comes through in my photos???), and there are LOTS of speed dating opportunities in DC.
> 
> I've been doing more MeetUp group stuff/activities, but I haven't yet met anyone through these venues that I'm interested in dating, or who isn't already paired up. I'm enjoying the MeetUps, and I'm LOVING being more social and just getting out and doing more things, but I don't think I'm hitting my target demographic.
> 
> So, speed dating! Have you tried it? If so, what did you think of it? If not, why not? Any words of wisdom/advice? What to talk about, what questions to ask? Are the ones that require payment any better than the free/low-cost ones?
> 
> I'm bringing it up because there's a speed dating session coming up on the 13th, and I have until Friday to buy my ticket ($30). If I decide to try it.


Try it, can't hurt. Also, why not try an actual match maker?


----------



## lisab0105

Also, Match has the Stir meetup's.


----------



## Jellybeans

FeministInPink said:


> OK, so here's a question for the masses:
> 
> *Thoughts on speed dating?*



I personally have not tried it but I say, if you want to give it a whirl, go for it! Maybe you could get a single friend to go with you.

I personally have not tried it but


----------



## badcompany

moto164 said:


> I got a peak at you the other night when you flashed your picture on another thread, your very attractive 3X


Where?
3X and JB are on my want to see list LOL


----------



## 3Xnocharm

badcompany said:


> Where?
> 3X and JB are on my want to see list LOL


Aww, ya makin me blush!


----------



## vi_bride04

Speed dating makes me think of that scene from 40 yr old virgin...LOL


----------



## badcompany

3Xnocharm said:


> Aww, ya makin me blush!


Waiting patiently, elevator music in background.....
PM's are ok


----------



## FeministInPink

lisab0105 said:


> Try it, can't hurt. Also, why not try an actual match maker?


No WAY! My friend Mary did that, paid for 6 mos up front, and it's been AWFUL. She has the best dating horror stories.

Plus, DC's a real tech-friendly town. Nobody uses matchmakers here; it's all online.


----------



## FeministInPink

lisab0105 said:


> Also, Match has the Stir meetup's.


That's a good idea!


----------



## FeministInPink

angstire said:


> Haven't tried speed dating, but I've heard it can be hit or miss. Might be a good way to get back into things. Like practice.
> 
> I'm more of a 1:1 guy, so I like the quick first date, see how it goes and decide if there will be a second.
> 
> My $.02.


I was thinking it might be a good way to try to get a couple of first dates, since you only get to talk for a few minutes to each person.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

badcompany said:


> Waiting patiently, elevator music in background.....
> PM's are ok


I added a profile pic, so go to my profile.


----------



## badcompany

3Xnocharm said:


> I added a profile pic, so go to my profile.


Ok I can confirm 3X is a Hottie and redhead to boot

What the heck was Mr. no chemistry's problem?


----------



## Jellybeans

FeministInPink said:


> No WAY! My friend Mary did that, paid for 6 mos up front, and it's been AWFUL. *She has the best dating horror stories.*


LOL!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

badcompany said:


> Ok I can confirm 3X is a Hottie and redhead to boot
> 
> What the heck was Mr. no chemistry's problem?


Thank you!  But I am not a redhead, lol! Boring brown! 

His problem was that he expected me to look like a particular profile pic, was disappointed by a little weight, I guess. My fault for posting it I guess. I took it down.


----------



## badcompany

You look like you have reddish/brown hair to me.
Neither is a problem but I'm not a blondie fan, never understood why so many bleach their hair blond-yuck.
You'd call yourself thin average curvy or a few extra pounds in profile speak?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

badcompany said:


> You look like you have reddish/brown hair to me.
> Neither is a problem but I'm not a blondie fan, never understood why so many bleach their hair blond-yuck.
> You'd call yourself thin average curvy or a few extra pounds in profile speak?


Average, cuz I am!


----------



## badcompany

No complaints here
Sounds like he wanted an anorexic runway model.


----------



## FeministInPink

Jellybeans said:


> FeministInPink said:
> 
> 
> 
> No WAY! My friend Mary did that, paid for 6 mos up front, and it's been AWFUL. *She has the best dating horror stories.*
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!
Click to expand...

It's true! And they must have a pretty short roster, because they've started setting her up again with people she's already been out with!!!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

badcompany said:


> No complaints here
> Sounds like he wanted an anorexic runway model.


Who the hell knows?? I'm used to men pretty much throwing themselves at me, (I dont get why??) so this has been a hard hit to my ego! Thanks though! Its nice to hear something positive!


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: Dating after divorce - expectations*



badcompany said:


> Ok I can confirm 3X is a Hottie and redhead to boot
> 
> What the heck was Mr. no chemistry's problem?


He wanted something other than brains AND beauty ?? 

Maybe he is gay lol


----------



## badcompany

Online dating sucks, I keep getting "favorited" by pretty good looking women from too far away but I'm anchored here with job and co-parenting kids....sigh.
I don't think he's gay just a pig in oranges, too bad you let him sample yours.


----------



## angstire

badcompany said:


> Ok I can confirm 3X is a Hottie and redhead to boot
> 
> What the heck was Mr. no chemistry's problem?


simple, boys are dumb.


----------



## angstire

vi_bride04 said:


> Speed dating makes me think of that scene from 40 yr old virgin...LOL


It's just so safe in Minnesota. I mean, you could just go out and it's so safe!


----------



## FeministInPink

angstire said:


> It's just so safe in Minnesota. I mean, you could just go out and it's so safe!



Are tou trying to entice all of us to move to Minnesota?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm

badcompany said:


> Online dating sucks, I keep getting "favorited" by pretty good looking women from too far away but I'm anchored here with job and co-parenting kids....sigh.
> I don't think he's gay just a pig in oranges, too bad you let him sample yours.


I keep getting favorited and emails from much older men since I removed my one pic!  I'm sure messing with my profile put me at the top of the queue or something, because my email is blowing up, which would be cool, but everyone is older than what I am looking for! I did talk with one guy who is my age, and we have a date on Wednesday, but its just frustrating me. :scratchhead: I changed my main profile pic to the one I put on here.


----------



## whitehawk

badcompany said:


> Online dating sucks, I keep getting "favorited" by pretty good looking women from too far away but I'm anchored here with job and co-parenting kids....sigh.
> I don't think he's gay just a pig in oranges, too bad you let him sample yours.



They reckon a lot of that far away or undoable stuffs done by the companies to get you in and keep you paying up in hope.
They employ people that sit at their computers sending out dummies al day.
They know you won't chase up the dummies , meantime it still looks like some action.
Probly why so many contacts just disappear because they also have them sitting there answering contact attempts too , once


----------



## badcompany

Link? I wanna see


----------



## badcompany

whitehawk said:


> They reckon a lot of that far away or undoable stuffs done by the companies to get you in and keep you paying up in hope.
> They employ people that sit at their computers sending out dummies al day.
> They know you won't chase up the dummies , meantime it still looks like some action.
> Probly why so many contacts just disappear because they also have them sitting there answering contact attempts too , once


Not surprising. I'm not paying POF a dime so they can spoof all they want.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

badcompany said:


> Link? I wanna see


Who's link?


----------



## whitehawk

l really , if l'm honest with myself just don't like this stuff . Glad some people get some action though , really that's the only thing that gets me messing round with any of it, that slim maybe of someone special.
Funny thing though , if l took the time of spent even just messing round in them so far plus money l spent joining, l could've been out a dozen times for a few drinks.

Seems like 3x , they throw themselves at me in the real world but so far the online stuffs just bruised what's left of my ego something bad , wasted lots of time and money , think l need my head read :rofl:


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## badcompany

3Xnocharm said:


> Who's link?


To your profile I'm curious.


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## 3Xnocharm

badcompany said:


> To your profile I'm curious.


I will PM it to you if you promise not to laugh!


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## badcompany

PM'd


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## TheGoodGuy

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angstire

FeministInPink said:


> Are tou trying to entice all of us to move to Minnesota?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well it is nice, but I think VI Bride was talking about the dating scene where the busty girl from MN had her boob slip out. At least that was how I took the reference. But then I'm from MN.


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## FeministInPink

angstire said:


> Well it is nice, but I think VI Bride was talking about the dating scene where the busty girl from MN had her boob slip out. At least that was how I took the reference. But then I'm from MN.


Oh! I haven't seen that movie in ages, so I totally missed the reference... don't even recall that particular scene. :scratchhead:


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## angstire

OK, this is my possible chance to get my first ban from TAM:

Nipple - YouTube


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## vi_bride04

Note to self...wear bra to speed dating events 

Ha ha ha


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## FeministInPink

Thanks, angstire... hope you don't get banned!


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## Jellybeans

3Xnocharm said:


> I keep getting favorited and emails from much older men since I removed my one pic!
> 
> but everyone is older than what I am looking for!


How old are they? What is the age range you are looking for?


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## 3Xnocharm

Jellybeans said:


> How old are they? What is the age range you are looking for?


The age range I am looking for is 38 to 48. I am 43. The men who have been showing interest primarily range from 53 to 62!


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## Jellybeans

Hehe. They are trying to rob your cradle. 

But don't pass one up just cause he doesn't fit your "number" range... you never know. Could meet a nice older man.


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## 3Xnocharm

My second husband was 16 years older than me. While that in itself wasnt an issue between us, its made me realize that I would prefer someone closer to my own age. Hence, the five year span both ways that I am looking for.


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## Jellybeans

Ah, I see. Yeah it's prob good to try out someone new or in your age range if you think that would be best.

Did you have any major problems because of the sixteen-year age difference?


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## EnjoliWoman

3Xnocharm said:


> The age range I am looking for is 38 to 48. I am 43. The men who have been showing interest primarily range from 53 to 62!


Same here!!! Well, except I'm 45. It seems the MUCH older men are interested but none in the 40-50 range. And then the 20-somethings who must think I'm stupid or desperate.


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## angstire

I'll be honest, I'm 42 and I'm looking at 35-44. Not much older than me. I have gone on a date with 31, but mostly looking within a 5 year window below my age.


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## EnjoliWoman

My ex is 12 years older. Had things worked out that wouldn't have bothered me but now I look at guys who are pushing 60 and I just FEEL so much younger than that. I still want to listen to current music and go out and do stuff. I'd be fine with younger, too, as long as they are mature - I just don't want to go TOO young.


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## 3Xnocharm

Jellybeans said:


> Ah, I see. Yeah it's prob good to try out someone new or in your age range if you think that would be best.
> 
> Did you have any major problems because of the sixteen-year age difference?


My third husband was my age, and I found that I really liked that. H2 and I never did have problems with the age difference, he did not look or act his age, and it was just never an issue. I just found that having someone my age was a little closer bond.


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## BeachGuy

It's interesting to read how different people feel about the age gap.


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## FeministInPink

My STBXH is 6 yrs older than me, but living with him was like living with an old man. (Posted about this on my own thread the other day: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...tion/122938-they-broke-up-10.html#post5304626.) Initially thought I would go the opposite direction, and try to only date men around my age or younger, but now I'm thinking someone who's a little older would be OK with me -- as long as he embraces life with enthusiasm, and is working to keep himself healthy so he can continue doing that for as long as possible. I've decided that's more important.


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## Jellybeans

angstire said:


> I'll be honest, I'm 42 and I'm looking at 35-44. Not much older than me. I have gone on a date with 31, but mostly looking within a 5 year window below my age.


Did you feel like 31 was too young?



EnjoliWoman said:


> I still want to listen to current music and go out and do stuff. I'd be fine with younger, too, as long as they are mature - I just don't want to go TOO young.





3Xnocharm said:


> I just found that having someone my age was a little closer bond.


That makes sense.



FeministInPink said:


> My STBXH is 6 yrs older than me, but living with him was like living with an old man.


Lol. 

My exH was 4 yrs older than me. I felt like we had a good enough age-gap since we were in the same age range I guess. Most of the men I've dated have been in my age range.


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## angstire

JB, I thought 31 was fine for a couple dates and some fun, but longterm? No. She wants more kids, I don't. 

I don't think she's resolved the stuff with her cheating XH either. So, we aren't going on any more dates. I don't think she's ready and I don't want to be part of doing any harm.

35-44 is probably better for me.


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## Jellybeans

Always good to know what you want/where you stand. How long did you date her for?


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## angstire

1.5 months, 4 dates. We still text, but mostly about her new job.


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## whitehawk

l notice on any l've been in , say a 40 yr old women will have an age range of say 30 to 40. l see their pic though and feel like emailing them and saying are you kidding.
Realism seems to fly out the window and then , you look around in the real world and see the real husbands and wives . Still together , 20 yrs , 30yrs , even the oldies.


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## whitehawk

angstire said:


> 1.5 months, 4 dates. We still text, but mostly about her new job.


See this part of things makes me just not feel like bothering until maybe , maybe someone really special comes a long.
l've had two duds already and l haven't even been out there but that crash and burn feeling , dunno it just really brings me down.
l dunno how it effects other people but me , it actually makes me feel worse than l did before . 
ls that just a me thing do you think or what ?

ps , then again . Having just been through the most horrific time of my whole life and still am , no surprises there l guess.


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## angstire

whitehawk said:


> See this part of things makes me just not feel like bothering until maybe , maybe someone really special comes a long.
> l've had two duds already and l haven't even been out there but that crash and burn feeling , dunno it just really brings me down.
> l dunno how it effects other people but me , it actually makes me feel worse than l did before .
> ls that just a me thing do you think or what ?
> 
> ps , then again . Having just been through the most horrific time of my whole life and still am , no surprises there l guess.


Truth on that. Divorce is no fun and jumping back into dating too soon opens you up to rejection, which can hurt a lot after the D.

That said, building the confidence helps get read for rejection from dating. It will happen.


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## angstire

Update on Red that I wrote about before.

Asked her out two weeks ago, got the "I'll check my calendar". This is my kidless weekend and I'm already booked to the gills with plans. She never got back to my on that calendar checking, but did continue to text me 2-10 times/day. Today I get the text that she knows we were going to plan something but she's just too busy this weekend to get together.

I text back, "no worries, have a good weekend, when we didn't have a plan and we only have finite time to see each other, I figured it wasn't going to happen." 

Response: "Have a great weekend! "

What is her brand of crazy? Or does she just not like me that way? No idea. Lack of communication is a red flag. I would like to see you again, leads to passive responses and then excuses the weekend of. I'd already put her in the no more dates category last weekend. Confirmed today.

3 dates this weekend. Moving on.

Once I backed away and realized what I liked about her was chasing her and how coy she was being, it became easy to not care about that next date and what was really going on with her. Still don't know. Still don't care.


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## badcompany

^^^^ Place carefully in doorway.....punt....next.


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## EnjoliWoman

ANY woman who says "I'll check my calendar" generally doesn't want to see you and that's a PA way of doing it.

If I really DO need to check my calendar I can check my phone OR I'll be very specific: "I can't recall if I have my daughter that weekend" or "I'm traveling that week and I don't recall when my flight gets in on Friday - let me check and get back to you".

I wouldn't have bothered even texting after such an evasive answer.


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## badcompany

I would have just said this isn't going to work out and good luck.
Cut the BS.


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## angstire

That was my version of this isn't going to work. I worked the finite time in there to say I only have so much and I'm not spending any of it on you. 

I could have just ignored her, but we've been out a few times, so I wanted to let her know where things were at without wagging my finger at her for being a naughty girl. I didn't want to blame her, but let her know I figured out we weren't going to be going out.

What I don't get is the non-stop texting. Desperate for attention? Wants everyone to like her? Weird. I only resond to ones with question marks and I'm tailing that off after today too. Buh-bye.

BC, Love the Figh Club quote.


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## badcompany

Thx.
I liked the "stop trying to control everything and just let go...let go!" as well
Weird movie but funny as hell with some good points in it.


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## angstire

Read the book. The movie pulls so much dialouge, word for word. Quick read too.


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## whitehawk

angstire said:


> Update on Red that I wrote about before.
> 
> Asked her out two weeks ago, got the "I'll check my calendar". This is my kidless weekend and I'm already booked to the gills with plans. She never got back to my on that calendar checking, but did continue to text me 2-10 times/day. Today I get the text that she knows we were going to plan something but she's just too busy this weekend to get together.
> 
> I text back, "no worries, have a good weekend, when we didn't have a plan and we only have finite time to see each other, I figured it wasn't going to happen."
> 
> Response: "Have a great weekend! "
> 
> What is her brand of crazy? Or does she just not like me that way? No idea. Lack of communication is a red flag. I would like to see you again, leads to passive responses and then excuses the weekend of. I'd already put her in the no more dates category last weekend. Confirmed today.
> 
> 3 dates this weekend. Moving on.
> 
> Once I backed away and realized what I liked about her was chasing her and how coy she was being, it became easy to not care about that next date and what was really going on with her. Still don't know. Still don't care.



3 dates this w/e , wtf ! Your firing playboy :lol:

Red , man she's keepin you on a string just encase.
Someone was saying here earlier , when she's keen she clears that diary , l go with that as l've always found the same thing. 
Anyway , you gotta be too tired to care Angs :rofl:


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## whitehawk

EnjoliWoman said:


> ANY woman who says "I'll check my calendar" generally doesn't want to see you and that's a PA way of doing it.
> 
> If I really DO need to check my calendar I can check my phone OR I'll be very specific: "I can't recall if I have my daughter that weekend" or "I'm traveling that week and I don't recall when my flight gets in on Friday - let me check and get back to you".
> 
> I wouldn't have bothered even texting after such an evasive answer.



Hey , that's not you Enjoli is it :scratchhead:


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## Jellybeans

angstire said:


> Asked her out two weeks ago, got the "I'll check my calendar". This is my kidless weekend and I'm already booked to the gills with plans. She never got back to my on that calendar checking, but did continue to text me 2-10 times/day. Today I get the text that she knows we were going to plan something but she's just too busy this weekend to get together.
> 
> I text back, "no worries, have a good weekend, when we didn't have a plan and we only have finite time to see each other, I figured it wasn't going to happen."
> 
> Response: "Have a great weekend! "
> 
> What is her brand of crazy? Or does she just not like me that way?


My guess is she's just not that into you.

No worries though. This frees you up to more ladies who WILL be into you. 

I wouldn't reach out to her. 



EnjoliWoman said:


> ANY woman who says "I'll check my calendar" generally doesn't want to see you and that's a PA way of doing it.
> 
> I wouldn't have bothered even texting after such an evasive answer.


Agreed and agreed. Enjoli knows.


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## angstire

Jellybeans said:


> My guess is she's just not that into you.
> 
> No worries though. This frees you up to more ladies who WILL be into you.
> 
> I wouldn't reach out to her.


Again, Red texts me this morning. Just to check in, she's confusing. Not sure what she thinks we're doing; I know we're not doing anything.

Anyway, it was a good weekend. Dates this weekend begetting dates this week. I slept all of 8 hours this weekend. Was so glad to get to my bed last night.


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## Jellybeans

angstire said:


> Again, Red texts me this morning. Just to check in, she's confusing. Not sure what she thinks we're doing; I know we're not doing anything.


I'd scale back on texting her. Seriously. If she asks you out, then can decide if you want to do something with her but otherwise, I wouldn't place her on your High Level of Interest List.


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## angstire

Jellybeans said:


> I'd scale back on texting her. Seriously. If she asks you out, then can decide if you want to do something with her but otherwise, I wouldn't place her on your High Level of Interest List.


She is not High on my Level of Interest. I answered her text this morning with something noncomittal, short and with no questions.

If she asks me out at this point, I'll tell her no. That ship has sailed.


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## Sincererlytrying

angstire said:


> That was my version of this isn't going to work. I worked the finite time in there to say I only have so much and I'm not spending any of it on you.
> 
> I could have just ignored her, but we've been out a few times, so I wanted to let her know where things were at without wagging my finger at her for being a naughty girl. I didn't want to blame her, but let her know I figured out we weren't going to be going out.
> 
> What I don't get is the non-stop texting. Desperate for attention? Wants everyone to like her? Weird. I only resond to ones with question marks and I'm tailing that off after today too. Buh-bye.
> 
> BC, Love the Figh Club quote.


I'd love it anyone else could explain the follow up texting. I dated a woman earlier this summer for 6-7 weeks. Things started to turn weird and I realized she was hiding or lying about something. After a strange dinner when this hit me, the next night I got a long text about her ex boyfriend calling her, she was unsure about her feelings towards him and she couldn't date me anymore. I think that after that dinner the previous night I was expecting that text from her. 

What's weird is that over the next 2 weeks, she'd send texts to check up on me or see what I was up to. Once, she passed me at work, then immediately sent a text about how hard it is to see me there and that she didn't realize she'd miss me so much. Over the following 2 days we talked on the phone and texted several times. I really never did figure out her intent with that text, but it was clear she wasn't into seeing me again in our later conversations.

Here's some of the things I learned from that brief dating experience after my separation. If a woman can say things in text but not in person or on the phone, it's a red flag. If something seems weird or if you feel something is being hidden, it's a red flag. (In this case, it's that she actually lived in a home owned by her ex?-boyfriend, and that ex was all over the news this past spring for sexually harassing a coworker). Good looks don't equal honesty and the more somebody tells you how honest and straightforward they are, the more they probably aren't. Sex does not equal commitment or exclusivity, so I'll be taking my time to get to know future partners more.

You can learn a lot about a person through Google and property records and I might do that as soon as I get suspicions in the future instead of figuring it out later after I was played.


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## angstire

Sincererlytrying said:


> I'd love it anyone else could explain the follow up texting. I dated a woman earlier this summer for 6-7 weeks. Things started to turn weird and I realized she was hiding or lying about something. After a strange dinner when this hit me, the next night I got a long text about her ex boyfriend calling her, she was unsure about her feelings towards him and she couldn't date me anymore. I think that after that dinner the previous night I was expecting that text from her.
> 
> What's weird is that over the next 2 weeks, she'd send texts to check up on me or see what I was up to. Once, she passed me at work, then immediately sent a text about how hard it is to see me there and that she didn't realize she'd miss me so much. Over the following 2 days we talked on the phone and texted several times. I really never did figure out her intent with that text, but it was clear she wasn't into seeing me again in our later conversations.
> 
> Here's some of the things I learned from that brief dating experience after my separation. If a woman can say things in text but not in person or on the phone, it's a red flag. If something seems weird or if you feel something is being hidden, it's a red flag. (In this case, it's that she actually lived in a home owned by her ex?-boyfriend, and that ex was all over the news this past spring for sexually harassing a coworker). Good looks don't equal honesty and the more somebody tells you how honest and straightforward they are, the more they probably aren't. Sex does not equal commitment or exclusivity, so I'll be taking my time to get to know future partners more.
> 
> You can learn a lot about a person through Google and property records and I might do that as soon as I get suspicions in the future instead of figuring it out later after I was played.


I think the nonstop texting is a way to keep a guy/girl on the back burner as a back-up. My $.02.

Checking online records is good to make sure you're not getting involved with a documented crazy.


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## Jellybeans

Angs--how many times did you go out with Red? How did you meet her again?




Sincererlytrying said:


> I'd love it anyone else could explain the follow up texting. I dated a woman earlier this summer for 6-7 weeks. Things started to turn weird and I realized she was hiding or lying about something. After a strange dinner when this hit me, the next night I got a long text about her ex boyfriend calling her, she was unsure about her feelings towards him and she couldn't date me anymore. I think that after that dinner the previous night I was expecting that text from her.
> 
> What's weird is that over the next 2 weeks, she'd send texts to check up on me or see what I was up to. Once, she passed me at work, then immediately sent a text about how hard it is to see me there and that she didn't realize she'd miss me so much. Over the following 2 days we talked on the phone and texted several times. I really never did figure out her intent with that text, but it was clear she wasn't into seeing me again in our later conversations.


My guess is she reached out to you via text AFTER telling you about her ex-boyf bein back in the picture because 1. she's an idiot or 2. she wanted to keep you on the backburner "in case" it didn't work out with him.

Either way, you are better off without her.

The moment you sensed things got weird with her and that she was lying about something was your time to scale back. And as soon as she brought up the ex-boyf being back in the picture, that was your cue to move on. She is not emotionally ready to be in a relationship cause she is obviously still hung up on her ex. You deserve better. Cut strings with her.


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## ne9907

Seems as if every time I go out on my own, like for a job interview or whatever I get hit on by younger guys. THis time I went to the local VA office (need help getting a job) and there was a 25 yo kid putting the moves on me.

Or maybe I have been out of the dating scene for so long, I don't know what "hitting on" is anymore. Perhaps they are just being nice and nosy!!!!

But....

I definitely do not want a child when I start dating!!!
Maybe I should wear more make up!


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## whitehawk

ne9907 said:


> Seems as if every time I go out on my own, like for a job interview or whatever I get hit on by younger guys. THis time I went to the local VA office (need help getting a job) and there was a 25 yo kid putting the moves on me.
> 
> Or maybe I have been out of the dating scene for so long, I don't know what "hitting on" is anymore. Perhaps they are just being nice and nosy!!
> 
> 
> @@@ Just being nice. Guys learn later they really have to watch what they do and say with older
> women or they'll read it as you like them. Same thing happens for younger chicks with having to be careful how older guys might read a smile or niceness.
> this was a big reason it was often awkward just smiling. You wouldn't believe how often in the next second you'd notice their eyes pop a bit and it'd be like ooow , they would take it totally out of context.
> My x was always thinking she was being hit on.
> But l use to see what she read as hit on and had to break it to her. Arr ,sorry babe there's a big difference in just being nice and respecting an older female to hitting on them because thats all it was 9 times out of 10.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


----------



## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> Seems as if every time I go out on my own, like for a job interview or whatever I get hit on by younger guys. THis time I went to the local VA office (need help getting a job) and there was a 25 yo kid putting the moves on me.
> 
> Or maybe I have been out of the dating scene for so long, I don't know what "hitting on" is anymore. Perhaps they are just being nice and nosy!!!!
> 
> But....
> 
> I definitely do not want a child when I start dating!!!
> Maybe I should wear more make up!


But ne9907, the young ones have so much stamina -- maybe not the best choice for a LTR, but not bad for a little fun! 

I've always dated older men, so I'm more than happy to go younger!


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## Jellybeans

ne9907 said:


> Seems as if every time I go out on my own, like for a job interview or whatever I get hit on by younger guys. THis time I went to the local VA office (need help getting a job) and there was a 25 yo kid putting the moves on me.


Just smile and flirt back. You are single! 
It's flattering when someone finds you attractive!


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## whitehawk

2galsmom said:


> Whitehawk, not all men are ageist and prefer younger or women of the same age. True many of them do. If they do they do, if you do, you do, there is nothing wrong with it but don't think that after 40, women are to be anesthetized and put out to pasture to die.
> 
> nee9907 you could be getting hit on by younger men who are not just being nice to you. I am quite sure you know the difference. Alas, I get attention from younger men as well and I am ageist and want nothing to do with them.
> 
> Angstire - ignore the texts, poor impulse control is my answer. It is sooooo easy to send a text. Bye bye Red.



Would never think that 2gals , it happens on both sides of the fence l know.
Just trying to say it can also be misunderstood at times too that's all.
And hey , my x is quite top heavy too and there's no worries there , the girls do attract some admirers :rofl:


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## angstire

2galsmom said:


> Angstire - ignore the texts, poor impulse control is my answer. It is sooooo easy to send a text. Bye bye Red.


Agreed, she's gones.


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