# Question for those who have been there!!



## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Im going to make this short and to the point. I am 7 months or so into R.. H is doing good, no contact with OW. I have no reason to doubt that he has or will again for that matter.

But, it is me!! Why do I on some days feel I am in it 100%. Then the next thing I know I am asking myself--why are you here? Some days I feel great about trying to work it out and we are together. Then other days I question myself, I think NO this is to much, he cheated, thats to much for me to deal with. I dont want to be here, with him, near him, do I really want to try?

But then it all changes emotionally for me and I say to myself, Yeah you do, you love him, his trying, its getting better, he loves you.. etc..

Is it me, or is this on some level Normal for the BS to question it or feel diffrent from one day to the next?

Thanks


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## Onmyway (Apr 25, 2012)

I'm in the completely wrong mood, and haven't been in R long enough to even consider answering your question, but I wish you the best of luck and I hope everything works out well for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> Im going to make this short and to the point. I am 7 months or so into R.. H is doing good, no contact with OW. I have no reason to doubt that he has or will again for that matter.
> 
> But, it is me!! Why do I on some days feel I am in it 100%. Then the next thing I know I am asking myself--why are you here? Some days I feel great about trying to work it out and we are together. Then other days I question myself, I think NO this is to much, he cheated, thats to much for me to deal with. I dont want to be here, with him, near him, do I really want to try?
> 
> ...


You are describing the roller coaster. All BS go through this. That's why it is said that it takes 2-5 years to get through R. You have to ride out the low points while keeping in mind that the high points are just around the bend. Think about this. Are you both doing better than you were 6 months ago? I would say you probably are. And that improvement will continue if you both keep working at it. If you are having trouble dealing with the anger and resentment there are many books on the subject that may be of help. Alternatively you can deal with it in IC. But it is normal. You just have to work through it.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

My husband has been doing the same thing, not sure from one day to the next whether he's freaking out about my affair or totally happy and in love with me..we are 3 months into our R. Not sure when or if it stops.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Well I can honestly say, I feel better that my feeling are normal! Yes we are better now than we was 6 months ago. But thats what is getting to me I think. If it is better, then why do I want to run? I am having one of them moments right now. That lead me back to this site, I didnt know if my "gut" was trying to tell me somthing again.

I have been thru he** for along time, and yes it is better now. As with ever other BS I just got so much to work thru emotionally on my own. Some days I look at H and I can feel how much love I have for him, then I look at him and think do you really love him still really. Maybe its to much his done and I dont want to do this no more. So that leads to me thinking ok is this one of them "gut" feelings, maybe I should run..

Then it goes back to NO, you and him have been working hard and you both love one another its getting better... So yeah rollercoaster is the right word for it..

My H has no idea I have questioned or R, I never bring it up. WHY? Because I am not sure how I truley feel. And that scares me..

So, I did IC guess I need to go back huh? And you mentioned books what books would you reccomend? 

I just dont want the rest of my life so unsure about my own happiness, if I leave will I become happy dunno? If I stay will I become happy dunno? Somedays I am, somedays I am not.. 

Dang A just destroys the BS, I never thout in my life I would be so utterly confused about my own dang happiness.. 

Thanks for your help


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> Well I can honestly say, I feel better that my feeling are normal! Yes we are better now than we was 6 months ago. But thats what is getting to me I think. If it is better, then why do I want to run? I am having one of them moments right now. That lead me back to this site, I didnt know if my "gut" was trying to tell me somthing again.
> 
> I have been thru he** for along time, and yes it is better now. As with ever other BS I just got so much to work thru emotionally on my own. Some days I look at H and I can feel how much love I have for him, then I look at him and think do you really love him still really. Maybe its to much his done and I dont want to do this no more. So that leads to me thinking ok is this one of them "gut" feelings, maybe I should run..
> 
> ...


If forgiveness is the primary issue then I would recommend _How Can I Forgive You?_ by Janis Abrahms Spring. If there are still post affair issues I would recommend _Surviving An Affair_ by William Harley and _After The Affair_ by Janis Abrahms Spring. If its relationship issues then _His Needs, Her Needs_ and _Love Busters_ are the best out there in my opinion. What is the most substantive issue that you are feeling that makes you want to give up?


Edit: I can tell you that it was around the 1 1/2 year mark when I started to feel like we were really going to make it. It does really take a while.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

You're not alone.

I change from hour to hour and I'm seven months into this hell. One moment I think I'll stay, the next I think there is now way I can stay with him. I do have financial issues and children to take into consideration, too. 

Regardless, I feel my marriage has been fake (ten years I was kept in the dark), I don't feel like I really know him anymore, I have changed as a person and I fear I'll always have doubts. 

Tough way to live.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

CantSitStill said:


> My husband has been doing the same thing, not sure from one day to the next whether he's freaking out about my affair or totally happy and in love with me..we are 3 months into our R. Not sure when or if it stops.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


CSS, has he left yet? Give Calvin a chance to work through this. Its the hardest thing he will ever do in his life.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> If forgiveness is the primary issue then I would recommend _How Can I Forgive You?_ by Janis Abrahms Spring. If there are still post affair issues I would recommend _Surviving An Affair_ by William Harley and _After The Affair_ by Janis Abrahms Spring. If its relationship issues then _His Needs, Her Needs_ and _Love Busters_ are the best out there in my opinion. What is the most substantive issue that you are feeling that makes you want to give up?
> 
> 
> Edit: I can tell you that it was around the 1 1/2 year mark when I started to feel like we were really going to make it. It does really take a while.


Well I am affraid that I dont love him like I used to. I want to be in love with him, and I somtimes just dont feel it. It has to do with the A, all the pain and humilliation he put me thru. He try so hard now, tells me he loves me daily, but that doesnt make up for the crap he put me thru.

He says he never loved OW. Only alway me. I am having a hard time beleiving him. The A bothers me DAILY. And I just think is this really what I want? Will I ever be in love like I was before his A. I want to be in love, I want to feel happy about my choice to be married to this man. I want to feel like we belong together. Like I did before his A. But I just dont think I do or ever will again. And that is really getting to me..


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

1 and a half years?? Oh I still have hope we'll be ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> You're not alone.
> 
> I change from hour to hour and I'm seven months into this hell. One moment I think I'll stay, the next I think there is now way I can stay with him. I do have financial issues and children to take into consideration, too.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I am going thru it to.. It is so hard.

But that the point,,,, "TOUGH WAY TO LIVE"

But Im not sure if running will make me happy or staying will make me happy.. Its feels like no matter what I do it will be the wrong choice. So how do you Know. For me if seems like I never really will.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> Well I am affraid that I dont love him like I used to. I want to be in love with him, and I somtimes just dont feel it. It has to do with the A, all the pain and humilliation he put me thru. He try so hard now, tells me he loves me daily, but that doesnt make up for the crap he put me thru.
> 
> He says he never loved OW. Only alway me. I am having a hard time beleiving him. The A bothers me DAILY. And I just think is this really what I want? Will I ever be in love like I was before his A. I want to be in love, I want to feel happy about my choice to be married to this man. I want to feel like we belong together. Like I did before his A. But I just dont think I do or ever will again. And that is really getting to me..


First thing. You are never going to be the same. Your husband will never be the same. That's just a fact. But understand that its not a bad thing to burn off the innocence and embrace a mature loving relationship built on awareness and genuine love. Allow me to elaborate. Before Morrigan had her affair I never could imagine her hurting me like she did. And she never could have imagined she was capable of doing something that devastating to anyone let alone her husband. As time went on I began to see her in the light of reality and not through the rose colored glasses of innocence. I saw her as more mature, stronger, more aware of herself and what she was capable of. She was more beautiful to me than before because she had taken the adversity and channeled it into self improvement. I was also changed. I would never blindly trust ever again. I did not feel obligated to open my heart simply because we were married. I chose to trust her with my heart again. I chose to trust her to protect me from anything that could potentially harm me, including herself. Basically I let go of the anger and resentment and made a conscious decision to trust her. It was scary and it was difficult but it was also necessary. And for 20 years we have guarded each other's hearts vigorously.

You need to understand that resentment will block love. You have to find a way to forgive and release the resentment. I know its difficult but its necessary, not for him but for you.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

CantSitStill said:


> 1 and a half years?? Oh I still have hope we'll be ok.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you want it to work it will. That's the only advice I can give. It gets better over time but you have to allow healing. Holding on to resentment and pain is a crutch. You think it is protecting you from further heartbreak but what it is really doing is holding you back from healing your heart.

It took me 1 1/2 years to feel completely comfortable but it was getting better gradually before that. At 1 1/2 years I had the epiphany that it was going to be ok.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> Yeah, I am going thru it to.. It is so hard.
> 
> But that the point,,,, "TOUGH WAY TO LIVE"
> 
> But Im not sure if running will make me happy or staying will make me happy.. Its feels like no matter what I do it will be the wrong choice. So how do you Know. For me if seems like I never really will.


You will have the same feelings regardless if you stay or leave. If you truly want to stay with your husband then reconcile and work it out with him. If not then divorce and work it out alone. Either way you will have to work it out.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> You will have the same feelings regardless if you stay or leave. If you truly want to stay with your husband then reconcile and work it out with him. If not then divorce and work it out alone. Either way you will have to work it out.


Yeah.. Thats what it all comes down to and the reason I posted the question. I didn't really understand why I was bouncing back and forth about I love hime its going to be ok to run why are you even bothering..

But you made sense to me about the rollercoaster ride. It helps to know that this is all normal emotions for me at this point in R.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. Now I need to understand and try to focus my thouts away from the moments when it is lower. And try to remember that its OK, its part of healing. And as you said its only been 7 months and it takes at least up to 2 yrs for some of it to ease. 

And your right, It wont ever be the same. I guess I need to just face that to. It was nice thou to have complete faith in my H for over 20 years. Guess it time to stop dwelling on the past and the if's and thing about a new yet exciting Love to blossom between us. The resentment.. oh boy do I need to let it go. I try I really do, but it just hurts. Maybe it will come in time to.. I hope so. Or it is ME who needs to work on letting it go..


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Roller coaster? For me it was me being a wing walker on a bi-plane at an air show,with plenty of spectators to watch.I had no cables or straps to hold me on,I just had a death grip while the plane did barrel rolls and loops.
I thought I would lose my grip quite a few times but the more I was shaken,the harder my grip became,I was'nt about to be thrown off.
Its been a few months now and the turbulence is smoothing out,the need to have that death grip is fading.I feel the rest of our flight will be pretty smooth as long as we work together and plot our course for the future.And if the engine dies,we can,parachute out together,no matter what,we've got this.So hold on to eachother,its a b!cth of a ride but be patient,you'll get there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> ... It was nice thou to have complete faith in my H for over 20 years...


In those 20 years, he never made any other mistakes? 

Beowulf has the right of it here, it always comes down to _choice_, its a choice to let go, its a choice to move on, every single waking moment of every single day is a choice, what choices you make and how you make them, primarily dictate your own quality of life.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Paladin said:


> In those 20 years, he never made any other mistakes?
> 
> Beowulf has the right of it here, it always comes down to _choice_, its a choice to let go, its a choice to move on, every single waking moment of every single day is a choice, what choices you make and how you make them, primarily dictate your own quality of life.


Mistake YES.... 
A dilibrate attempt to shatter ever ounce of trust, respect and honesty that is mutal in a marriage NO....

This isnt the same as Oh honey BTW I forgot to pick up milk on the way home!

Its more like, hey honey BTW I picked up a ***** on the way home.

No thank you, I dont want it.....


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> Mistake YES....
> A dilibrate attempt to shatter ever ounce of trust, respect and honesty that is mutal in a marriage NO....
> 
> This isnt the same as Oh honey BTW I forgot to pick up milk on the way home!
> ...


I wouldn't consider it a mistake either, more like a very bad judgement followed by a very bad decission.

But the thing still is, that you need to figure out, if you want to stay with your husbond or not, and it can be a tough decission to make - especially if his intentions are hard to read. I certainly know that for my self.

I have made a plan for my self. This plan is foolproof regardless of my wife's intentions. I have chosen to stay with her for the time being, and I simply work on my self to become the best possible version of my self. I can benefit from that whether my wife chooses to cave in or not, whether she is genuine or not when she shows me actions of love.

But I am in doubt every f****** day, just like you. I am now 372 days and 2 hours past D-day. Still struggling, but beginning to get the grip of it - realizing that finding a new partner will not make any safer.

I can recommend the book "How Can I Ever Trust You Again" - if lack of trust is the issue.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

cpacan said:


> I can recommend the book "How Can I Ever Trust You Again" - if lack of trust is the issue.


Another excellent book. I forgot about that one. Thanks cpacan.

Just,

For 20 years he never gave you cause to question him. I don't know the complete story, especially from his viewpoint, but I would suggest he did not deliberately set out to do damage. Yes, he should have realized his actions would cause the damage but unfortunately people in affairs are not thinking rationally. It's like someone who has been drinking. They think they are okay to drive but they really aren't lucid enough to make that call. Then they cause an accident or take a life. Its too late at that point to take it back. When someone is in an affair they cannot comprehend the fallout from their actions. It's only after seeing the wreck of D-Day that they realize they shouldn't have been behind the wheel at all.


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## JessieP (Feb 28, 2012)

You are not alone....I am going through this as well (3 months past DDay)....I question every day I stay/spend time with my spouse....wondering if I'll ever look at him the same, if I'll ever feel like I truly love him again....it's tough....I'm having a rough day thinking about things and hoping tommorow is better....I suggest to take it day by day and just try to take care of yourself right now and invest more in yourself than your relationship....if your spouse is still around when you are at your best then start repairing the relationship...maybe that's bad advice but it's helped me....because should I choose to leave...I will be stronger and be a better person in the end.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

JTOIA,

What you are going through is about as normal as it gets. I'm a little under 3 years from finding out. If your spouse is honest and true it does get better, but you will never forget. You will never trust in that same way that only betrayed spouses understand. You will never look at them more than 30 seconds and not think this is them same person that chose to lie to me, sleep with another. Your old marriage is over. You can only live for another.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

JTOIA, I'm in the same place. Nearly 2 years from D-day now. Some days are good. Other days, I just think about what she did and I hate it. My CW is the biggest trigger of all. How do you get past that?

It gets better, but doesn't go away.

Like Cpacan, I take care of me, and make myself ready for either final outcome R or D.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

RWB said:


> JTOIA,
> 
> What you are going through is about as normal as it gets. I'm a little under 3 years from finding out. If your spouse is honest and true it does get better, but you will never forget. You will never trust in that same way that only betrayed spouses understand. You will never look at them more than 30 seconds and not think this is them same person that chose to lie to me, sleep with another. Your old marriage is over. You can only live for another.


I think this frames it well... the essence of many BS struggles is that it is so hard to accept these facts. Your relationship will never be the same, it will never become what you originally thought it would be, and your life will become different than you once dreamed it to be.

Simple but yet really, really hard to accept and deal with.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

I had a really bad weekend. Thinking all these thoughts. I just don't know how I'm gonna do this. I see everything in a new light and I really don't like it. I feel trapped in an awful way. How does someone sleep with a total stranger after being with someone for ten + years and two babies at home? Then live with that lie for another ten years? He disgusts me. He is not who I married. I really don't know him and I'm sure in my gut his EA later on was a PA. I'm married to a liar. Yes, very bad weekend. Last night he said we had a good day! HA! Sure, he had a good day. I kept quiet. If only he knew the hellish thoughts going thru my head all day long. They have no clue.


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## JessieP (Feb 28, 2012)

Hurting,
Isn't it crazy that sometimes it feels like you're sleeping next to a total stranger? I feel like i'm alone even when my spouse is right next to me...I'm so guarded and scared that I can't even talk to him about how I feel anymore....I know how you feel...except I don't have any children....lean on them as much as you can....children can be a great way to keep your mind off things and keep you busy...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Hurting and Jessie. You are right. You don't know your husbands as well as you thought. But you are looking at this completely wrong. Now is the opportunity to get to know them the way you should have and needed to years ago. When we get married we see mostly the good and hardly ever the bad in our mates. But that's not who they really are, only our perception of them. As much as what you are going through sucks now you understand that your spouse is flawed, just like you, just like me, just like anybody. They can be extremely selfish. They can be callous. They can be dishonest. They can hurt you. We all have those negative traits whether we want to admit to them or not. Given the right circumstances we all can make extremely bad hurtful choices. You need to see your spouse for who they really are. All the bad....and all the good. Remember, if they hurt you as badly as I know they did, they are hopefully now trying to heal you with even more zeal. You need to see what happened and hold it up against what is happening now. If your spouse is doing the heavy lifting you should be seeing and noting it. See them for what they truly are, a person that made a terrible destructive choice and now is working harder than they ever have to atone for that hurtful action. See them completely and entirely and then decide if this is a person you can love and eventually trust. My wife Morrigan took everything she did to heart and owned it. She took what she did and learned and grew from the experience. She changed and became a better person. I decided I loved the new Morrigan, not as much as the old one and not more than the old one. I love her differently than the old one and appreciate this new person for who she is now. That's the only way I could stay with her and make our marriage work. Our new marriage.


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## Helpme1 (Apr 24, 2012)

5 years and still hate triggers. I wish I was strong enough to leave then. Now I cant B/C of kids. I hope this pain ends soon. As we were driving past one of their date places over the weekend, one of the kids said "Hey we should eat there". What am I suposed to do with that?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Hurting and Jessie. You are right. You don't know your husbands as well as you thought. But you are looking at this completely wrong. Now is the opportunity to get to know them the way you should have and needed to years ago. When we get married we see mostly the good and hardly ever the bad in our mates. But that's not who they really are, only our perception of them. As much as what you are going through sucks now you understand that your spouse is flawed, just like you, just like me, just like anybody. They can be extremely selfish. They can be callous. They can be dishonest. They can hurt you. We all have those negative traits whether we want to admit to them or not. Given the right circumstances we all can make extremely bad hurtful choices. You need to see your spouse for who they really are. All the bad....and all the good. Remember, if they hurt you as badly as I know they did, they are hopefully now trying to heal you with even more zeal. You need to see what happened and hold it up against what is happening now. If your spouse is doing the heavy lifting you should be seeing and noting it. See them for what they truly are, a person that made a terrible destructive choice and now is working harder than they ever have to atone for that hurtful action. See them completely and entirely and then decide if this is a person you can love and eventually trust. My wife Morrigan took everything she did to heart and owned it. She took what she did and learned and grew from the experience. She changed and became a better person. I decided I loved the new Morrigan, not as much as the old one and not more than the old one. I love her differently than the old one and appreciate this new person for who she is now. That's the only way I could stay with her and make our marriage work. Our new marriage.


Thank you.


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## In The Dark (Aug 24, 2011)

JTOIA,
Your time line matches mine and I have been feeling the same way. I'm seven months from D-day and I keep going back and forth. Some days I feel that we are in a great place. Some days I want to walk away. It's tough keeping that guard up all the time and it is tiring. This will be a long two years if that's how long it takes. 

The plain truth is I don't trust her. I know she has the ability to lie straight to my face. I know she is capable of hiding things. I never thought should could do those things but she did it with ease. 

I long for what I had and it is weird to look at my wife now, knowing that she wanted someone else, wanted something else, could do and say the things she did. I have to learn to let that old person go because she is gone now. I hope Beowolf is right. I hope love can be found with this new version.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Helpme1 said:


> 5 years and still hate triggers. I wish I was strong enough to leave then. Now I cant B/C of kids. I hope this pain ends soon. As we were driving past one of their date places over the weekend, one of the kids said "Hey we should eat there". What am I suposed to do with that?


Take the family there and make a great memory to completely squash the negative one?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

In The Dark said:


> JTOIA,
> Your time line matches mine and I have been feeling the same way. I'm seven months from D-day and I keep going back and forth. Some days I feel that we are in a great place. Some days I want to walk away. It's tough keeping that guard up all the time and it is tiring. This will be a long two years if that's how long it takes.
> 
> The plain truth is I don't trust her. I know she has the ability to lie straight to my face. I know she is capable of hiding things. I never thought should could do those things but she did it with ease.
> ...


If I may offer a little advice the problem is that you are still keeping your guard up. At some point you have to let down your guard and risk being hurt again. That is why you haven't been able to move past the pain. You're using it as a shield. But you can't embrace someone holding a shield. If you try to go through life always protecting yourself you'll miss out on some very lovely and loving moments.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> If I may offer a little advice the problem is that you are still keeping your guard up. At some point you have to let down your guard and risk being hurt again. That is why you haven't been able to move past the pain. You're using it as a shield. But you can't embrace someone holding a shield. If you try to go through life always protecting yourself you'll miss out on some very lovely and loving moments.


And once again you nailed it Beowulf,its hard but if you let go and your WS feels as bad as the BS,then you can really make a solid effort at R .I'm glad I did
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

In The Dark said:


> JTOIA,
> I'm seven months from D-day and I keep going back and forth.
> 
> The plain truth is I don't trust her. I know she has the ability to lie straight to my face. I know she is capable of hiding things. I never thought should could do those things but she did it with ease.


I could have typed this. Also, seven months out. I change my mind numerous times within a single day!


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> If I may offer a little advice the problem is that you are still keeping your guard up. At some point you have to let down your guard and risk being hurt again. That is why you haven't been able to move past the pain. You're using it as a shield. But you can't embrace someone holding a shield. If you try to go through life always protecting yourself you'll miss out on some very lovely and loving moments.


Really, how do you even know anything anymore? I mean, I can say he's being faithful now, but truth is he got away with it before and I was clueless. So how do you even know anymore? :scratchhead:


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Really, how do you even know anything anymore? I mean, I can say he's being faithful now, but truth is he got away with it before and I was clueless. So how do you even know anymore? :scratchhead:


You dont ever "know" thats what letting your guard down means. Having 'faith' or 'trust,' swallowing the "blue pill," and accepting the current situation as reality. Knowing that your partner can and has lied/hurt/cheated/screwed you in the past, and believing that they wont do it again because they learned from the mistakes and what to genuinely make things work. 

I saw a post a while back talking about the BS having a "double duty" to perform, that no matter how much heavy lifting the former DS does, the BS still has to lift the heavier part of the burden. Thats why so many people say that D is easier in some ways than R. After the D, whoever you end up with, does not have a "former" version of themselves for you to compare them to. Making the act of swallowing the "blue pills" easier.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

But don't you think a BS carries lack of trust into a new relationship should they divorce? I mean, I think I'd be scared. Once you get cheated and lied to like this, I think it changes your perspective on relationships in general. I know right now I don't believe in marriage or love. I see weddings on TV and I want to barf and tell them to run while they can.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

I guess you can say I'm not a romantic right now. :rofl:


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> But don't you think a BS carries lack of trust into a new relationship should they divorce? I mean, I think I'd be scared. Once you get cheated and lied to like this, I think it changes your perspective on relationships in general. I know right now I don't believe in marriage or love. I see weddings on TV and I want to barf and tell them to run while they can.


Is that the way you want to live your life? Forever never trusting? Never being able to love again? Never being able to feel that connection with someone? Always expecting the worst from people. That's not a life worth living in my opinion. Love is always a risk. When you open your heart to someone you risk hurt and pain. But what kind of life is there without love? Trust is a choice. You made the choice to trust once and you got hurt. Can you choose never to trust again? Sure you can. But then you also choose never to love again. I could never live without love.

You ask if a BS takes a lack of trust into a new relationship. The answer is yes, they do. Because most of the time the trust issues are never resolved from the previous relationship. My friend was betrayed sometime before I was. He chose divorce. When he remarried he didn't trust his new wife. She had done nothing wrong but he followed her, investigated her, mistrusted her. All because of his previous hurtful experience. It took him 5 years before he felt he could trust his new wife. He loves his wife and they are very happy. But he admitted to me that he knows now that he could have reconciled with his first wife. That it was his lack of forgiveness and his refusal to trust again that ended his marriage and almost cost him his second marriage.

Can you guarantee that your spouse won't hurt you again? There are no guarantees in life. And there are certainly no guarantees in marriage. We all have the capability to hurt, lie and yes betray. We're human. You have to ask yourself if the person asking for your trust deserves it. Are they doing the things necessary to heal you? Are they doing the heavy lifting? Have they atoned? When you open your heart you take a chance. Whether it is with the person that hurt you or another the memories and feelings of that hurt stay with you. But if you let it rule you; if you let it control you; then you shut yourself off from the world. You won't be betrayed again, that's true. But you also won't feel happiness, joy, and love. But you'll still feel the pain and you won't have anyone there to comfort you.

I choose love therefore I choose to trust.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks Beowolf. I understand what you're saying, I just am not there. I woke up feeling alot of anger, we got into a fight... I don't know how to let this go. I really don't. I'm sooo mad and hurt, question everything now. Confident he's still keeping things from me about his EA, too. I'm hanging on for the kids, that's about it right now. I know this is not healthy for me to have all this resentment. 

This morning I told him what he did was not only disrespectful to me, but it was to our children as well. That he risked their security. I woke up from deep sleep thinking this and I became very mad. He yelled back it was me who was risking their security, not him. That the ONS was nine years ago. This made me so mad, he excuses his behavior because it was years ago. What he is not taking into account was I didn't know all those years since so he got to skip the initial fallout. We wouldn't be in this place had he not been so selfish to begin with.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Is that the way you want to live your life? Forever never trusting? Never being able to love again? Never being able to feel that connection with someone? Always expecting the worst from people. That's not a life worth living in my opinion. Love is always a risk. When you open your heart to someone you risk hurt and pain. But what kind of life is there without love? Trust is a choice. You made the choice to trust once and you got hurt. Can you choose never to trust again? Sure you can. But then you also choose never to love again. I could never live without love.
> 
> Can you guarantee that your spouse won't hurt you again? There are no guarantees in life. And there are certainly no guarantees in marriage. We all have the capability to hurt, lie and yes betray. We're human. You have to ask yourself if the person asking for your trust deserves it. Are they doing the things necessary to heal you? Are they doing the heavy lifting? Have they atoned? When you open your heart you take a chance. Whether it is with the person that hurt you or another the memories and feelings of that hurt stay with you. But if you let it rule you; if you let it control you; then you shut yourself off from the world. You won't be betrayed again, that's true. But you also won't feel happiness, joy, and love. But you'll still feel the pain and you won't have anyone there to comfort you.
> 
> I choose love therefore I choose to trust.


Thanks Beowulf, I think (know actually) you have it right, and I really try to get there. I think that what is making this difficult is this little tiny nagging feeling, that WS is just playing me untill the dust settles, and then... WHAM! (I have my reasons, but I will post them in a thread of my own)

It is just an uncomfortable feeling. But in my head, I know that one has to find peace with it. It's just not that easy.

But reading your words over and over in different threads will eventually get me there... I think  Hope the same for others.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Thanks Beowolf. I understand what you're saying, I just am not there. I woke up feeling alot of anger, we got into a fight... I don't know how to let this go. I really don't. I'm sooo mad and hurt, question everything now. Confident he's still keeping things from me about his EA, too. I'm hanging on for the kids, that's about it right now. I know this is not healthy for me to have all this resentment.
> 
> This morning I told him what he did was not only disrespectful to me, but it was to our children as well. That he risked their security. I woke up from deep sleep thinking this and I became very mad. He yelled back it was me who was risking their security, not him. That the ONS was nine years ago. This made me so mad, he excuses his behavior because it was years ago. What he is not taking into account was I didn't know all those years since so he got to skip the initial fallout. We wouldn't be in this place had he not been so selfish to begin with.


Its difficult because he has had all these years to put it behind him. But to you it just happened yesterday. Its going to be hard to get him to understand how you feel but he needs to if you are going to heal. Have you both gone to a counselor that specializes in infidelity? Hanging on for the children is not going to work in the long run. You both need to rebuild the trust but he needs to atone for his transgression. What work has he done to heal you hurting?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

cpacan said:


> Thanks Beowulf, I think (know actually) you have it right, and I really try to get there. I think that what is making this difficult is this little tiny nagging feeling, that WS is just playing me untill the dust settles, and then... WHAM! (I have my reasons, but I will post them in a thread of my own)
> 
> It is just an uncomfortable feeling. But in my head, I know that one has to find peace with it. It's just not that easy.
> 
> But reading your words over and over in different threads will eventually get me there... I think  Hope the same for others.


After a betrayal it is perfectly reasonable to have suspicions. That's why one of the phrases uttered often on TAM is trust but verify. Would it help you to know that 20 years later Morrigan and I still check each other's phones, email, Facebook pages etc. We never stopped. It give me comfort to know that she would never do anything to betray me again and it gives her comfort to know that I will never hide anything from her regardless of the turbulence we might be encountering at the time. At some point you have to bring yourself to trust again if the spouse had truly atoned. If there is a question in your mind it should be addressed and dissected. That's part of R as well.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Its difficult because he has had all these years to put it behind him. But to you it just happened yesterday. Its going to be hard to get him to understand how you feel but he needs to if you are going to heal. Have you both gone to a counselor that specializes in infidelity? Hanging on for the children is not going to work in the long run. You both need to rebuild the trust but he needs to atone for his transgression. What work has he done to heal you hurting?


Went to MC, things seemed to get worse. She had the rug sweeping approach that he still brings up. I think she helped justify continuing to keep things from me. Our insurance wouldn't pay for it and given he made some bad financial choices recently during our stress we can't afford another MC. Our insurance will pay for IC thru their own counselors. We both had bad experiences. Right now he is only going to his psychologist for his meds. 

He has let me check his phone, emails, facebook. I have the iphone tracker on his phone which he keeps on until we get into a fight. He takes it off to make me mad. I personally don't think he's up to anything now. The ONS was nine years ago, the EA that he still downplays ended four years ago. I did find some fishing type behavior on facebook where he contacted girls that were old friends, but nothing in a couple years. He has helped more around the house, will try to hold my hand and hug me when things are going OK. He started bringing me flowers again, something he hadn't done in years and has begun opening doors for me. Where he fails is he gets defensive when I ask questions. He'll be calm for a few, then suddenly explode. This makes him look guilty. I personally think he's hiding stuff from me still. He's become depressed and at times suicidal. He has often turned this around on him and failed to support me when I needed it. So I guess you could say he's done part of the work, but not all. He'd be happy to put this behind him and move on. It was like one hell of a midlife crisis.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Went to MC, things seemed to get worse. She had the rug sweeping approach that he still brings up. I think she helped justify continuing to keep things from me. Our insurance wouldn't pay for it and given he made some bad financial choices recently during our stress we can't afford another MC. Our insurance will pay for IC thru their own counselors. We both had bad experiences. Right now he is only going to his psychologist for his meds.
> 
> He has let me check his phone, emails, facebook. I have the iphone tracker on his phone which he keeps on until we get into a fight. He takes it off to make me mad. I personally don't think he's up to anything now. The ONS was nine years ago, the EA that he still downplays ended four years ago. I did find some fishing type behavior on facebook where he contacted girls that were old friends, but nothing in a couple years. He has helped more around the house, will try to hold my hand and hug me when things are going OK. He started bringing me flowers again, something he hadn't done in years and has begun opening doors for me. Where he fails is he gets defensive when I ask questions. He'll be calm for a few, then suddenly explode. This makes him look guilty. I personally think he's hiding stuff from me still. He's become depressed and at times suicidal. He has often turned this around on him and failed to support me when I needed it. So I guess you could say he's done part of the work, but not all. He'd be happy to put this behind him and move on. It was like one hell of a midlife crisis.


Would it be possible to restrict asking questions to a certain day and time. That way he won't feel like he's being ambushed and you can still work on reassuring yourself. WS do sometimes get defensive if they feel like they've already answered the same question many times over so he might not be hiding anything. I would just calmly let him know that unless everything is uncovered *to your satisfaction* reconciliation cannot commence.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

Justtired...
I feel like I'm reading a post that I could have written myself-verbatim. Like Beowulf (the great) said it's a rollercoaster. I actually feel it coming on now and I have to make myself go to another place in my mind and stop thinking the "why am I here" thoughts and move myself back to "i love him and he IS worth it." It's HARD though. Stay strong-Keep fighting the rollercoaster. It will get better (or so I read and have to believe).


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes it does get better,the bumps are smoothing out and becoming less frequent.Atfer seeing how my W showed me she was serious I gave up and gave in to her,its a little rough but its a relief and getting happier every day.
Had to relax and let my guard down a lot but its working
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

calvin said:


> Yes it does get better,the bumps are smoothing out and becoming less frequent.Atfer seeing how my W showed me she was serious I gave up and gave in to her,its a little rough but its a relief and getting happier every day.
> Had to relax and let my guard down a lot but its working
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Calvin (and others), if you ever start doubting whether you should reconcile and/or forgive I highly recommend _How Can I Forgive You_ by Janis Abrahms Spring and _I Love You But I Don't Trust You_ by Mira Kirshenbaum. Each one addresses the issues of forgiveness and rebuilding trust the best way I have ever seen them presented. Its the WS job to make you comfortable in the relationship but its the BS job to explore his/her feelings and find a way to forgive and trust again. That's what R is all about when you get down to the basics.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Calvin (and others), if you ever start doubting whether you should reconcile and/or forgive I highly recommend _How Can I Forgive You_ by Janis Abrahms Spring and _I Love You But I Don't Trust You_ by Mira Kirshenbaum. Each one addresses the issues of forgiveness and rebuilding trust the best way I have ever seen them presented. Its the WS job to make you comfortable in the relationship but its the BS job to explore his/her feelings and find a way to forgive and trust again. That's what R is all about when you get down to the basics.


I agree Beowulf,cant keep looking over your shoulder forever,you cant R unless you forgive and trust again and feel loved,especially if your spouse is hurting also.
That being said,if the BS's heart is ever kicked around like a hackey sack ball again,all bets are off.Never again.In my case,I know that wont happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

calvin said:


> I agree Beowulf,cant keep looking over your shoulder forever,you cant R unless you forgive and trust again and feel loved,especially if your spouse is hurting also.
> That being said,if the BS's heart is ever kicked around like a hackey sack ball again,all bets are off.Never again.In my case,I know that wont happen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For 20 years Morrigan knows that I will not go through that again. You get one chance to make things right. Any more than that and you're a repeat offender in my book.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> For 20 years Morrigan knows that I will not go through that again. You get one chance to make things right. Any more than that and you're a repeat offender in my book.


Ya, I wonder about this... 
WS had the ONS. Kept it from me for nine years, suffered no consequences.
Then he has an EA three years after the ONS that lasts almost two years with her ending it. (He won't call it an EA, but I know it was.) 
So in my mind he cheated on me twice, once physically and then a second time emotionally. He would argue on the latter. He's owned up to the ONS (with the exception of I think it was intercourse and not a BJ), but skirts with owning up to the EA (which again I worry was a PA). He'll only say it wasn't appropriate and he won't ever get that close to a female coworker again. 
He fished around on facebook sending messages to a few old female friends. I never found anything bad except one time where the girl flirted back inappropriately. 


So I guess this leaves me wondering if he is a serial cheat. He claims he was just naive and didn't understand proper boundaries. He did read Hedges (excellent book) and says he got alot from that and is trying to make permanent proper boundaries in place in his life. 

But, given what he has done (And let me tell you he played the faithful family guy up big time, much of which makes this all hurt so much more.) would I consider him a serial cheat or a serial cheat if he acts again from this point forward???:scratchhead:

I mean how many times have we all heard once a cheater, always a cheater? I really wish I had known about the ONS when it happened. For one, it would have spared me all these tarnished memories I have from those nine years I was kept in the dark (the majority of my children's lives), I would have had the decision to leave or stay then, feeling I wasn't robbed of a huge chunk of my life, but most importantly HE COULD HAVE LEARNED FROM HIS MISTAKE, therefore possibly preventing the EA, the messages to other girls on facebook...

He says he learned from his ONS and would never do anything like that again, but yet he was still putting himself into bad situations and skirting on boundaries with other woman. Even this morning he tells me the EA wasn't an affair cause he never touched her. I think he still struggles with that concept. He thinks if you don't touch them it's not cheating. We'll see how he holds up to his new set of boundaries. So far, he has called me twice to tell me he was having lunch with a female coworker. He said he'll always tell me when that happens.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Ya, I wonder about this...
> WS had the ONS. Kept it from me for nine years, suffered no consequences.
> Then he has an EA three years after the ONS that lasts almost two years with her ending it. (He won't call it an EA, but I know it was.)
> So in my mind he cheated on me twice, once physically and then a second time emotionally. He would argue on the latter. He's owned up to the ONS (with the exception of I think it was intercourse and not a BJ), but skirts with owning up to the EA (which again I worry was a PA). He'll only say it wasn't appropriate and he won't ever get that close to a female coworker again.
> ...


When I said one second chance I was specifically talking about a WS that sees the hurt and pain the BS is going through and does everything in order to atone for the affair. If that WS cheats again its over. That's exactly what happened to Bandit.45. His W cheated, saw the pain he went through trying to forgive her the first time and then 20 years later went and did it again. I feel in that case you are done.

What you describe is a ONS and an EA that was never dealt with. He needs some education on what an EA really is and how much pain it causes. It doesn't matter what he believes he did or did not do. It only matters that he hurt you and he needs to own that no matter what. Ignorance is no excuse. Here is the bottom line on EAs. Was he honest and open about his "friendship" with this woman? If the answer is yes then he can claim ignorance. If he hid it in any way then ask him why he conducted his friendship in a clandestine manner if it was so innocent?

For reference. I had a work friendship with a female colleague many years ago before Morrigan's affair. We used to take our lunches together and play chess, checkers, etc. Morrigan was fully aware of this friendship and I told her each and every day what we talked about, did, etc. I also told her about other coworkers that were male so I did not distinguish this friendship from any other. During R this friendship was brought up as an EA that I had. After discussing it we both agreed that it was not an EA but just a close friendship because I was completely open and honest about my contact with this woman. I also agreed after R that I would not have such a close friendship with a woman again. It would cause too many unforeseen issues.

Do I think your husband is a serial cheater? Not given the information I've read here. But I do not believe he is doing as much as he can to heal the marriage and you. He needs to work to educate himself on how his actions impact you and the marriage. Ask him if he heard you say "I love you" to another man how would he feel. If you said you would rather be married to that other man would he just laugh it off. He needs to develop more empathy toward you and what you are dealing with. In short, he needs to stop being such a high and might a$$ and quit being so defensive. And you can tell him I said that.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> When I said one second chance I was specifically talking about a WS that sees the hurt and pain the BS is going through and does everything in order to atone for the affair. If that WS cheats again its over. That's exactly what happened to Bandit.45. His W cheated, saw the pain he went through trying to forgive her the first time and then 20 years later went and did it again. I feel in that case you are done.
> 
> What you describe is a ONS and an EA that was never dealt with. He needs some education on what an EA really is and how much pain it causes. It doesn't matter what he believes he did or did not do. It only matters that he hurt you and he needs to own that no matter what. Ignorance is no excuse. Here is the bottom line on EAs. Was he honest and open about his "friendship" with this woman? If the answer is yes then he can claim ignorance. If he hid it in any way then ask him why he conducted his friendship in a clandestine manner if it was so innocent?
> 
> ...


Thanks. I'll tell him that.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Thanks. I'll tell him that.


Hurting, this is from _Chatting or Cheating: How to Detect Infidelity, Rebuild Love and Affair-Proof Your Relationship_ by Sheri Meyers

*Emotional sex is a friendship that escalates into something that feels the same as romantic love and can manifest itself in numerous ways — physically, romantically, emotionally, lustfully, verbally, or virtually.

Friendship becomes emotional sex when the feel-good brain chemicals and hormones that are released when even thinking about that person take over. Any contact with the person becomes as potent as a drug addiction.

…Emotional sex can be even more enthralling than physical sex, and it can cause the same havoc, mistrust and betrayal in a relationship as sexual infidelity, often leading to a break-up.*

You should share this with him as well.


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## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm glad that I'm not the only one feeling this way, dam there are so many feelings.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

Hurtingbadly, my H is not on board with actually calling it an EA either, however he has admitted to crossing boundaries (says he was intrigued by her emails and phone calls) yet he won't say it. I partly wonder, not making excuses, but he said in MC last week that he never thought he would be "that kind of a guy" who would break his vows or even come close to it. SO I partly feel like he is dealing with a lot of turmoil in his mind: confused of why he would chose to have a ONS kiss and not deal with our marital issues. so for him to admit a second breaking of the vows he is guarding.

It doesn't make it easier for me to forgive and move forward. It actually is making it tougher. I feel like you are in the same scenario. I too wonder if his EA was actually a PA and I'm beginning to think I will NEVER know bc he can't even call it an EA? 

Best of luck and as we share and learn on here maybe on of us can help the other


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