# He wants to build a shop on my property



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

TLTR at bottom If you don’t want to read everything. 
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To avoid tangents/assumptions/harsh judgements: 

My boyfriend and I are both share the practical mindset of financial fairness, planning for worse case scenario. We want to share are lives together but don’t necessarily plan on getting married unless their is a beneficial reason to. If you think that’s a red flag and that’s all you have to offer, please move on. If it helps, leave the romantic part of the relationship out. Think of it as more of a mutually beneficial living arrangement.

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About Us:

I’m divorced with an 11 y/o and share custody 50/50. I’m a self employed horse boarding/lesson business owner and live/work out of my property that I worked very hard to keep in my divorce. I still owe on my property, but have substantial equity. My biggest fear is losing my property/source of income. I plan on staying here until I decide to retire..but at the very least, I HAVE to stay here on my property till my son graduates.

Boyfriend has never been married and doesn’t have kids. He does HVAC for the city and owns a home in town with a good chunk of equity as well. He does have a roommate (a friend from high school that’s lived with him since he bought the house.)

While we haven’t had the official reveal all, total financial transparency talk yet, we unofficially live together 99% of the time. We have similar levels of debt/disposable income but I have more assets and net worth. The goal is to plan for the worse case scenario if things don’t work out, and not leave the relationship worse than where we started. We agree to keep our finances separate but transparent... only combined accounts for mutual living expenses and savings for mutual vacations or items that we both agree on and use.

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Questions:

The less messy option would probably be for him to keep his house and rent it out and just split living expenses. The problem is I don’t have a garage, just 2 small storage/work sheds and nowhere to put all of his garage stuff or an ideal space to work.

We both like to tinker and build. He likes to work on cars, I like to work on random farm stuff. We would both love to have a shop on my property but I’m not in the position to build one on my own.

Yes, he could in theory, rent a garage space but we both agree renting is throwing away money... not to mention we can share tools/afford more tools and spend more time together/help each other if we are both using the same space.

If he sold his house, he could build his realistic dream shop on my property and still have 30-40% left over to do whatever with. We’re thinking a $50k budget for the shop and having most of it built and doing most of the finish work (electrical/plumbing) ourselves. 

The problem is we don’t know how to: 

#1 How to make it work if we were to split.

- What if I can’t refinance to buy out his interest in the shop outright? (It can get complicated on my end being self employed with my business onsite, ag exemptions ect..) Payments? What would be a fair amount of time to make payments to pay him off? Pay interest?
*I can’t deed him/trade him land because I would lose my ag exemption.*

- How to fairly calculate the value of the shop: actual investment cost? Appreciation? Depreciation? How do we factor in my use of the shop vs. him living in my home? Property taxes and insurance? 

- Any other remedies or assurances? We both acknowledge there are still going to be risks involved on both our parts... probably for him, more so than me. Either way, if we decide to get married or not, we plan on putting this all in writing and draw up all the necessary documents to assure both our interests are protected in case either of us dies.. etc. If we can figure this out, it will definitely set up the framework for any other permanent property improvements we may choose to do in the future as well.

#2 How to split bills fairly from month to month and occasional maintenance expenses fairly to make it work if needed?


TLTR: If he sells his house and builds a shop on my property, he will no longer have an asset that’s gaining equity and value. Can he/we offset this some how and it still be mutually beneficial for us both in the long run, especially if we separate?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! We want to make this work but we also want to to protect ourselves as much as we can to provide a good foundation to hopefully build upon. We both want to move forward and we both acknowledge this road block is putting a major stress on our otherwise good relationship. 











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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

With something as significant as this, it's probably best to contact a lawyer. As you are very aware, this is going to be fraught with difficulties. I think you should go into this as if you already know there will be an acrimonious breakup one day. That is, go into it planning for a terrible breakup so you really think through the worst possible scenario and how you would expect the garage to be dealt when you hate each other. I'm not saying that will happen, but if you plan for that then you'll more likely end up with a plan which may work out than if you think you'll be amicable.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

If you want him to build a shop on your property, you should pay for it and he can rent it out for the amount that it costs you amortized out. That would resolve any issues if you two learn to hate each other and he moves on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree with the two posts above.

And I want to add another option. There are portable buildings/garages. They seem to be less expensive than building on site.

I have 2 of them on my property. They are about 35 years old and in good condition. I just had the roofs re-shingled. It's the first work that we've had to do on them.

If you two split, he can tow his building and put it elsewhere.


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## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I agree with the two posts above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I also like this idea, but I highly doubt there is anything large enough that could be reasonably transported.. he works on his car’s a lot and wants a lift. At the very least, it would require a permanent slab. We would also have to run additional electrical service to make sure we have enough juice to operate bigger equipment like the lift, welder, air compressor etc... also not sure he could afford it without selling his house. 


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Sell him a buildable size lot, whatever the minimum is zoning allows. He can build his shop and you don't jeopardize your farm or business, if there's a breakup he can sell it to someone else.

Living together on your farm/business gets messy. Good luck figuring that out if you don't want him becoming vested. I guess you can charge him rent and have him contribute toward other expenses, but it's not fare to have him pay half the electric (as an example) bill if you're running a business on the property, his usage will be minor compared to yours. 

You have complained before of him not helping enough. Are you planning to pay him for any help that's related to your business? I'm not sure where or how you draw the line for him to live there and mesh your lives but him have nothing tangible to show for it down the road.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I built a shop almost precisely as you describe. I added a second story (although it had a bit of a low ceiling) that could be used as living space. That served two different reasons in that I could rent the living space out if I needed and secondly it counted as living space Square footing in my home appraisal. Investment was about 45k but I did most of the work. I had a welder and machist tools that I used for fun but also made money on the side.


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## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

Cooper said:


> Sell him a buildable size lot, whatever the minimum is zoning allows. He can build his shop and you don't jeopardize your farm or business, if there's a breakup he can sell it to someone else.
> 
> Living together on your farm/business gets messy. Good luck figuring that out if you don't want him becoming vested. I guess you can charge him rent and have him contribute toward other expenses, but it's not fare to have him pay half the electric (as an example) bill if you're running a business on the property, his usage will be minor compared to yours.
> 
> You have complained before of him not helping enough. Are you planning to pay him for any help that's related to your business? I'm not sure where or how you draw the line for him to live there and mesh your lives but him have nothing tangible to show for it down the road.




Thankfully, my barn is 95% on a separate service account so I pay 2 electric bills. The only shared electrical expense is the electric that runs the well pump that supplies the water for the whole property. All of my personal and business physical property and liability is covered by the same insurance policy because it’s cheaper and the insurance company has it sorted appropriately. We already agreed that he would pay for the separate electrical connection/service for the shop and any additional insurance needed.. whether he wants his own separate policy or just reimburse me the additional cost to include it under my policy doesn’t matter much to me.. it’s an easy number to add/subtract either way to make it fair.

He admitted that his lack of support has been influenced by the fact that he’s wary of investing a lot of his time and effort into my property when he doesn’t own it or have a say in what happens which I can understand. Before we make anything official in writing, we will have to discuss various likely scenarios to make it as fair as possible as we can. I don’t expect anything for free and neither should he. That’s all anyone can really hope for with the understanding that ****e happens and know there’s a significant likelihood that at some point, one person may have to shoulder the burden temporarily. We just want to start off with a good foundation.. having a plan A, B, and C in place to minimize the worry and reduce one of the major contributing factors that cause the most relationship failures. Basically, we are both approaching this like a a lot people that enter into their second marriage; knowing the odds of a second marriage are even worse than the first one and planning accordingly in hopes of increasing our chances beating the odds... having our financial cake and eating it to so to speak. 




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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

How old are each of you, and how long have the two of you been dating?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

cashybum said:


> I also like this idea, but I highly doubt there is anything large enough that could be reasonably transported.. he works on his car’s a lot and wants a lift. At the very least, it would require a permanent slab. We would also have to run additional electrical service to make sure we have enough juice to operate bigger equipment like the lift, welder, air compressor etc... also not sure he could afford it without selling his house.


*The Ridge Garage 20x25x10*


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

In your previous posts you complained about him sitting on his ass while you were busting yours. Are you really prepared to believe that he is suddenly going to become a picture of industry because he has his own shop?
Your own health isn’t the best I believe. What happens if eventually you have to sell your ranch but he can claim equity in the building. You may have to pay over the odds to get him to sell.
Take legal advice, it will be money went spent.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I really like the idea of building a two story structure, making an apartment on top, and renting that space to cover building expenses and provide extra income into the future. If you could take out a loan, personal or other, to cover the expenses he could rent the shop portion, you could have a tenant in the apartment, and he'd have no claim to any of it if things go south. You'd have a paying tenant and the possibility of renting the shop space or converting it into more rental housing if you break up and he moves on.

Selling him a small piece of your land has merit, too, but if you do that make sure it's a corner section with road access for minimal drama and annoyance if you split up or it has to be sold.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Check that the idea complies with zoning and planning laws before you do anything else.


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## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

Spicy said:


> How old are each of you, and how long have the two of you been dating?




We are in our early - mid 30’s. We’ve been friends for 14 years and dating for 2.5.


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## SunWhiskey (May 21, 2019)

I remember your old thread.

So this is the same guy who wasn't paying his way and not providing enough help around the farm. He was bumming off of you and you were thinking of ending it.

Here you are a short couple of months later thinking of making a major financial decision with him?

I'd suggest he buys a small vacant piece of property close to your home and builds the garage there.

You say you both like to tinker. Garage space fills up faaaaast when cars are involved. If you wanted to tinker in there, I bet he'd actually be aggravated about it.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Even if you guys can get the logistics worked out, I'm not sure this is a good financial decision for you two. That would be a lot of capital to tie up in the garage, and it's uncertain if he would ever get much of it back if he needed it. Maybe scale things back from "dream level" to "adequate level". Getting a temporary carport put over a slab will be a lot more feasible, less complicated, and less likely to cause issues if you ever break up. And he won't have to sell his house to do it. That alone seems like an imprudent financial decision for him regardless of whether you are dating or not.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

If you dont want anything built on YOUR property, then that is exactly where it should end. PERIOD. Further discussion not needed.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"He admitted that his lack of support has been influenced by the fact that he’s wary of investing a lot of his time and effort into my property when he doesn’t own it or have a say in what happens which I can understand."

His building a shop on your property is going to mitigate the above? How?

Is he currently paying you rent?

Still think he's using you and now think you're desperate to keep a man around.


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## SunWhiskey (May 21, 2019)

He shouldn't need to sell a house to do a 20 x 40 slab and a metal building.

DIY and you could swing that for $20,000 or less


Call it 5k max for the slab, more like $2500 if you build the forms and place the rebar and smooth and relief cut yourself and just call out a truck or 2. Then another 10k for the building, 2k-3k electrical.

Residential lifts can be had for $1200 for a 2 post or $2000 for a 4 post and $3000 for a nicer one with more features.

Figuring all that up.. DIY. 15k-20k.

Thats plenty for a lift on one side, a second bay without a lift, and storage on the sides and back. Air compressor sealed off in a corner by the electrical for simplicity and not having to run the 240 wiring as far. Less load to run a shop compressor with less wiring. Don't even need the big compressor if you won't be painting or relying on air tools.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Would there be a percentage of housing costs he'd pay if he lived with you for real, renting out his house? You and both of your parents (and your child) live in your house already. Are you expecting him to pay half of housing?


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## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Would there be a percentage of housing costs he'd pay if he lived with you for real, renting out his house? You and both of your parents (and your child) live in your house already. Are you expecting him to pay half of housing?



No I wouldn’t expect him to pay half. I would expect to split the house and related bills 4.5 ways (Me paying 1.5 because I have my son half the week). If it were just me and him and my son half the time, I’d expect to pay majority of the mortgage/maintenance and split utilities.

I’m definitely open to negotiation and just want to be fair.


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## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> "He admitted that his lack of support has been influenced by the fact that he’s wary of investing a lot of his time and effort into my property when he doesn’t own it or have a say in what happens which I can understand."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know he would be happier here having an area that was mostly “his”. It’s probably the only chance either of us would have a getting a nice shop in the next 3-5 years. I would never dream of not reimbursing him for the shop if things go south especially since my indoor arena will be paid off in 2 years which will free up over $1k a month. I’m not sure I could take another 2 years of this limbo. I’m afraid it’s breeding resentment between us. He has every right to want to protect his investment... as do I.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

cashybum said:


> I know he would be happier here having an area that was mostly “his”. It’s probably the only chance either of us would have a getting a nice shop in the next 3-5 years. I would never dream of not reimbursing him for the shop if things go south especially since my indoor arena will be paid off in 2 years which will free up over $1k a month. I’m not sure I could take another 2 years of this limbo. I’m afraid it’s breeding resentment between us. He has every right to want to protect his investment... as do I.


Is there land nearby that he could buy on his own and build a shop? Or maybe even a shop already built nearby that he could buy on his own?


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

cashybum said:


> I know he would be happier here having an area that was mostly “his”. It’s probably the only chance either of us would have a getting a nice shop in the next 3-5 years. I would never dream of not reimbursing him for the shop if things go south especially since my indoor arena will be paid off in 2 years which will free up over $1k a month. I’m not sure I could take another 2 years of this limbo. I’m afraid it’s breeding resentment between us. He has every right to want to protect his investment... as do I.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If it's breeding resentment before it's even started, that may be the answer to your own question. I wouldn't want my assets so heavily mixed up with someone I wasn't married to.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I forgot your parents live with you, I personally would never feel comfortable in your home. It's one thing to play married but keep your own place but for him to mesh his life with yours but be fifth on the totem pole is a disaster in the making. 

Didn't your parents own the farm originally? Do they still influence how things are managed? Are they "hands on" or simply living there paying rent? Do they have a financial stake in the business or property? Is the plan for your parents to live out their lives there?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

VibrantWings said:


> If it's breeding resentment before it's even started, that may be the answer to your own question. I wouldn't want my assets so heavily mixed up with someone I wasn't married to.


In her previous thread the op wrote how this guy lives with her 99 percent of the time but doesn’t pay any rent or expenses and resented it when she asked for a contribution from him.
He also refused to help her with heavy physical activity on the ranch and falls asleep by 9pm and gets mad if she wants to watch tv because it keeps him awake. 
And he owns his own house which he has a roommate to pay the mortgage. 
Now she seems to believe he will suddenly become a hard working industrious man if he gets his own shop. 
Let him buy a piece of land and build his own shop if he wants it so much.


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## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

Cooper said:


> I forgot your parents live with you, I personally would never feel comfortable in your home. It's one thing to play married but keep your own place but for him to mesh his life with yours but be fifth on the totem pole is a disaster in the making.
> 
> Didn't your parents own the farm originally? Do they still influence how things are managed? Are they "hands on" or simply living there paying rent? Do they have a financial stake in the business or property? Is the plan for your parents to live out their lives there?



Yes parents owned originally. My parents are somewhat hands on and helpful. They do have some financial stake as they pay half the mortgage... they know they are welcome to stay but we’d all prefer to live separately if you know what I mean. They knew I wouldn’t have a chance at buying them out until my arena was paid off though. 

My boyfriend knows all of this and shares my views on it... aka it’s not a deal breaker.


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## -Molly- (Jul 10, 2018)

I really think you are best to sit down with a lawyer and discuss this. I live in Canada, here, after 1 year of living together you are considered common law and when you break up, assets are looked at as if you were married. So he could be entitled to some of your property, depending how long you were common law. I don't know how it is where you live.


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## Rushmore410 (Oct 4, 2017)

Don't mix assets unless you are married. If you divorce there are court remidies to handle assets and thier allocation. It Gets super super messy if you mix Financials before marriage


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

If he wants covered parking for a vehicle he commutes to work in, that's one thing to consider alone.

If he wants tinkering space for large automotive activities?

He can go rent a place that has those facilities already.

If I were you, I would not even consider building such a thing at all

On the other hand, have you considered anything by Tuffshed?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

-Molly- said:


> I really think you are best to sit down with a lawyer and discuss this. I live in Canada, here, after 1 year of living together you are considered common law and when you break up, assets are looked at as if you were married. So he could be entitled to some of your property, depending how long you were common law. I don't know how it is where you live.


I know that in California, there is no "common-law" marriage.


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## Adam Kol (Jul 19, 2019)

cashybum said:


> I also like this idea, but I highly doubt there is anything large enough that could be reasonably transported.. he works on his car’s a lot and wants a lift. At the very least, it would require a permanent slab. We would also have to run additional electrical service to make sure we have enough juice to operate bigger equipment like the lift, welder, air compressor etc... also not sure he could afford it without selling his house.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How about he builds out a plan to generate enough savings/credit to be able to afford it? It may not happen right away, but y'all might be okay with that.


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## Adam Kol (Jul 19, 2019)

No matter what you choose, make sure you dive into how each person feels about it. I mean, really feels. Otherwise, starting off with resentment or anxiety can be severely damaging, as it will likely only grow over time.

I think there's a lot of merit to consulting a lawyer, as others have suggested. This is a significant investment -- financially and emotionally -- and I hear you really want to have your bases covered. A lawyer might be the right person to help.

Good luck!


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