# EA/PA If you knew then what you know now, would you still have it?



## AwfullyGuilty (Oct 29, 2012)

I would never have mine. 
My marriage was complicated enough and even though I thought it would give me strength to leave, it never did. Just made me feel really bad about myself, for my husband and OM. 

Did it have any mental side effect on you?
I felt kinda crazy. If he did not reply to my email, text - it hurt me deeply and I would judge myself based on it. Like if my worth was all about his response.
I would think how to surprise him, what to do on his birthday, how to write special email. 

We do not live in same country. I would see him once a year and this was the time when I felt worst. I could not be with him as much as I wanted for obvious reasons and he was busy by visiting rest of the "world".
I felt something like anxiety, could not stop think about him.
It was very painful to have him so close and not being to able to see him.

Other times when he was really sick, I would worry very much. 
He is diabetic with many complications because he did not care about himself from beginning. 
I also knew about his ED long time before we were in deeper trouble than EA.

Anyway, if you have any experience with it, how was yours?


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Without a doubt, I would not. Prior to my EA, I had never done anything to violate my marriage vows, my husband trusted me without question and I had never felt ashamed or embarrassed by something so stupid.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Fvck no!!!!!!


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Just to add...

I have never betrayed the people I love or myself so deeply in all of my days combined as I did 7.5 weeks of an EA. I would never have believed something so short lived could wreak such havoc. 

I honestly didn't know it was possible to inflict and suffer that much emotional damage.


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I wanted to add: 

Also, I would NEVER again want to see how hurt my husband was when this came to light. I die a little bit each time he talks about how much he had put me up on a pedestal only to be so disappointed and crushed.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> I wanted to add:
> 
> Also, I would NEVER again want to see how hurt my husband was when this came to light. I die a little bit each time he talks about how much he had put me up on a pedestal only to be so disappointed and crushed.


Sadly true.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

F*ck no!!!!!!!!!!

And I'm trying to dig down as deep as I can within myself to make sure that it never happens again. I am a OW/BS/WS...so have seen all sides of EA/PAs.

No way in hell will I ever go down that road again. Ever. In my life. No way, no how. Never ever. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AwfullyGuilty (Oct 29, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> F*ck no!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> And I'm trying to dig down as deep as I can within myself to make sure that it never happens again. I am a OW/BS/WS...so have seen all sides of EA/PAs.
> 
> No way in hell will I ever go down that road again. Ever. In my life. No way, no how. Never ever. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Need help on this one "OW/BS/WS" - other woman, got that, but have no idea what others stand for. :scratchhead:


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Betrayed Spouse, Wayward Spouse


----------



## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Just to add...
> 
> I have never betrayed the people I love or myself so deeply in all of my days combined as I did 7.5 weeks of an EA. I would never have believed something so short lived could wreak such havoc.
> 
> I honestly didn't know it was possible to inflict and suffer that much emotional damage.


Why does a cheater not realize these things? The magnitude of misery and the breadth of betrayal should have been foreseen. But I was blind to it, or maybe I blinded myself.

So, no. No. No. No. I would not choose again to end my marriage, family, and friendships in such a contemptible fashion.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

sayjellybeans said:


> Why does a cheater not realize these things?


I think (at least for me) it was easier to not think about the consequences due to being in so "much pain" and feeling justified b/c of the way I was being treated and him wanting to divorce. 

Its so much easier to fall into self gratification than to work through problems...easier to turn the other cheek....

And then there was the idea that "how can this action damage the situation anymore than it already is". How naive and stupid I was. There is no pain greater than that of infidelity.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Well in a higher level of selfishness and being self centered - I had some appreciation of the trauma that my wife would suffer, that's fairly obvious. What I was utterly unprepared for was the damage I was inflicting upon myself. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't do it again only for not hurting my wife; but what it cost me took me completely by surprise. I really don't know why I was surprised - I mean what did I expect when I traded my honor, dignity, honesty, morals, and marriage for an emotional fling? Just so damned stupid and such a waste...

No.

I would not do it again. I wouldn't do it the first time if I could turn back the clock.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

AwfullyGuilty,

Originally Posted by lordmayhem View Post
*List of Acronyms of Infidelity so the newbies can follow the infidelity lingo here*.

WW = Wayward Wife
WH = Wayward Husband
WS = Wayward Spouse
BH = Betrayed Husband
BW = Betrayed Wife
BS = Betrayed Spouse
LS = Loyal Spouse
DW = Disloyal Wife
DH = Disloyal Husband
DS = Disloyal Spouse
fWW = Former Wayward Wife
fWH = Former Wayward Husband
fWS = Former Wayward Spouse
OM = Other Man
OW = Other Woman
OMW = Other Man’s Wife
OWH = Other Woman’s Husband
AP = Affair Partner
R = Reconciliation
D = Divorce
DDay = Discovery Day
STBXH = Soon To Be Ex Husband
STBXW = Soon To Be Ex Wife
ILYBINILWY = I Love You But I’m Not In Love With You
EA = Emotional Affair
PA = Physical Affair
A = Affair
KISA = Knight In Shining Armor
VAR = Voice Activated Recorder
TT = Trickle Truth
SAHM = Stay At Home Mom
SAHD = Stay At Home Dad


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

* EA/PA If you knew then what you know now, would you still have it? *

Anyone who answers yes to this *might* be an idiot.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Sigma, what damage did you suffer from your EA?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Well in a higher level of selfishness and being self centered - I had some appreciation of the trauma that my wife would suffer, that's fairly obvious. What I was utterly unprepared for was the damage I was inflicting upon myself. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't do it again only for not hurting my wife; but what it cost me took me completely by surprise. I really don't know why I was surprised - I mean what did I expect when I traded my honor, dignity, honesty, morals, and marriage for an emotional fling? Just so damned stupid and such a waste...
> 
> No.
> 
> I would not do it again. I wouldn't do it the first time if I could turn back the clock.


My wH just read this and said "yes. Damn. Damn. Damn. Unbelieveable stupidity that I will forever regret for you, for me, for my family, for my honor and dignity as well. And for what I sacrifice each time I look in the mirror. And for what you give everyday to be here with me. For the agony I have inflicted upon you. NO! This should never have happened and will never be repeated"


----------



## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

I think you'll have trouble finding ANYONE that will say yes to this question.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Juicer said:


> I think you'll have trouble finding ANYONE that will say yes to this question.


At least we hope so, right?


----------



## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

I too can't imagine anyone saying yes to this. 

I really cannot imagine anything that I could do in the whole rest of my life that I would beg to take back as much as I do my A. The damage it has caused my husband, my family, myself, the OM's family, and my friends is so beyond anything I could have even fathomed. I should have known. I know that, and I hate myself that I didn't realize or care enough to think it through, so that is yet another piece of the puzzle. There is nothing good about an affair. Even anything that seemed good or fun or whatever is shown to be such a farce when you see it in the light of the devastation that it causes.


----------



## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

I would hope, truly...that my H would say the same thing that Sigma said. Its what he says to me...but, trust is broken so who the hell knows.


----------



## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Just to add...
> 
> I have never betrayed the people I love or myself so deeply in all of my days combined as I did 7.5 weeks of an EA. I would never have believed something so short lived could wreak such havoc.
> 
> I honestly didn't know it was possible to inflict and suffer that much emotional damage.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

brokenhearted2 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sigma... I'm kind of new here. Your answer got to me. Question: how did it happen that you let your guard down and let someone in? You seem so truly remorseful. I guess my question is, how did it happen? How do good, loyal people get "caught up?" 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

No. I wouldn't do it again. It damn near cost me everything. And for what? A few words on break from work? It isn't and wasn't worth it. It isn't worth losing my family. It isn't worth throwing my husband deeper into depression. It isn't worth learning that he did the same thing, as sort of revenge. No, the hurt and betrayal far outweighs any fleeting enjoyment. And carrying around the burden of almost completely destroying my family is sickening. No, I wouldn't do it over again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

brokenhearted2 said:


> Sigma... I'm kind of new here. Your answer got to me. Question: how did it happen that you let your guard down and let someone in? You seem so truly remorseful. I guess my question is, how did it happen? How do good, loyal people get "caught up?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The short answer is I had poor boundaries. For the full length answer you can click the "My Story" link in my signature. My EA was principally online - I didn't know it but I had no boundaries online - it seemed like a video game. By the time I fully realized what I was doing I was already in. Like almost every monumental screw up it was a series of many smaller steps, but there was a defining moment when I was "in" and a defining moment when I was "out." The moment I was in was the first time I "chose" my AP over my wife. Chatting online, I told the OW I was going to tell my wife that we had been talking so much, nothing completely over the top had been said but it wasn't going to be a pretty conversation either. The OW freaked. Asking me "why", "what's so different about our relationship that you have to tell her?" (yeah right!!) "you know she's not going to let us keep talking." "Can't you have your own friends." Finally in desperation she asked, "can we talk on the phone?" My OW was an Ex from high school. I hadn't heard her voice in 20+ years. Unfortunately I said yes. In that moment I chose her over my wife. That was when I was in. A small progression in the chain of events, but a major step into the realm of infidelity. When I was out is another story. 

So poor boundaries, combined with an old flame are what did it. I still look back and think "how the hell did I let that happen?" But I also had that thought when I was in the middle of it. It was like walking out a plank, turning around looking back, and thinking "how the hell did I get all the way out here???"


----------



## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

Thank you Sigma, for your reply. 
I have been haunted by my own H's EA and have not yet come to terms with it. It is strangely similar to your story - ex classmate (from 7th grade!) found him on FB, after initial contact proceeded to bombard him with too much personal info, cards to his office, gifts, texts, etc... Sharing WAY too much all under the guise of "reconnecting and catching up!" Multiple daily e mails to his office, telling him she could feel across the miles what he was feeling ( UGH) Of course - she was unhappily married, cried on his shoulder (figuratively), and mentioned more than a few times how "connected" they were. I know they never met up - but not for her lack of trying - she hounded my H to fly across country to meet her. It was only when she decided to fly out here that my H was jolted back to reality.
When I found out, all I asked is "Why? Why? Why? a thousand times. Then "How? how? how?..." He kept saying, "I don't know!!" It was like quick sand! All of a sudden one day he realized they had crossed a boundary and made the worst decision of his life - not to tell me of the frequency and timeline of their communications - which was 2.5 years. 

I wanted your opinion as to why and how, because I didn't think my H was being truthful. I love him so much - and felt loved, I just can't comprehend how this creature infiltrated his (our) life. Your response shows me exactly how it happens, that there is danger out there - especially that ^%[email protected]! FB. I see now that being on the computer lowers your boundaries and is a direct line to troubled waters. 
Not to high jack this thread - but I think I can answer for my husband - He is not the same man - he's haunted by how much I have cried. He sees the OW as a stalker now and is so angry at how she manipulated him and did the same thing as your OW - "OH! your wife is so insecure she wont let you have a friend!?" Grrrrrr. Anyway - I told my H that I would rather be Me in this equation - because I could not live with myself if I had hurt him as much as he hurt me, and the Man cried like a baby. So - I think most people would agree - Beware the EA!!! Once you go there - your life will never be the same. I mourn my old self and my old marriage. My marriage is still good - but it will never be the same.


----------



## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> * EA/PA If you knew then what you know now, would you still have it? *
> 
> Anyone who answers yes to this *might* be an idiot.


JB -- I almost agree with you. I would only change one word and my response would be:

Anyone who answers yes to this **IS** an idiot.


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

I guess that most will say no, however, at least half of the WS will again.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Brokenhearted - unfortunately I think my story and your H's are more the norm now, it's just new enough that it's not on everyone's radar by default. I mean everyone knows to look out for someone - especially an old flame - coming on to you or your spouse in a bar right?? But FB?? What harm can come from that??? Well - lots. Lots and lots and lots as many here now know. 

My answer above is a factual answer, but there are things in me - or more accurately maybe not in me, that made me susceptible. Your H, with your help, needs to spend the time to really figure out what in him let him slip. It's there, and it's likely not fun to define, but he needs to. It's kind of like the saying, "those who don't recall history are doomed to repeat it." Here, it's more like, "those who don't fully identify why they cheated are at much greater risk to do so again."

Do the work on him, on you, and on your marriage. Do it over and over until you have derived every bit of knowledge, growth, and improvement personally and collectively that can be had. You're right, your marriage will never be the same - but it can actually be better if you capitalize on the crisis wrought by your H's EA. You might as well get something out of all the pain and misery right??


----------



## timeforchange (Nov 4, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> You're right, your marriage will never be the same - but it can actually be better if you capitalize on the crisis wrought by your H's EA. You might as well get something out of all the pain and misery right??


No. It took for the emotional affair to happen for me to be sh*t scared realizing what _more_ could have happened. That made me end it and tell my husband. 

sigma you're right the marriage will never be the same. The finger that points at a cheater is like the lazer beam that marks a target just waiting for a trigger to be pulled no mater which way it's look at it. I really do find it hard to understand why anyone would want to still try and stay in a marriage when their loved one hurt them so much. If you are never forgiven or trusted again, what is it? Gratitude for what little is left that you actually like about your partner?


----------



## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

I stayed in my marriage (it's been 10 months since D-Day) because initially I was in shock and couldn't process the info I had stumbled upon and decided it was best to do nothing til I had all the facts. 
We made an appt with a MC and I tried to figure out what happened. To my knowledge, my H and I were happy, communicative, satisfied in ALL aspects, loving and kind toward one another, proud of each other, both of us chipped in and neither felt neglected. Add to that we were only married in 2010! (Both in our 40's) SO what could be bad? What could go stale? Wellllllllll, FB happened. H was contacted by an old classmate from when he was 12 - (they never dated, never saw her again after his family moved) - well - you can read my thread which explains the whole mess - the point is - my H maintains to this day that it was NEVER sexual. He said he felt bad saying it, but she was unattractive and shaped like a pear - that's what he saw when he looked at pictures of her. He liked the friendship, liked the connection to someone from his hometown, liked the attention - apparently she had nothing better to do all day than type away -almost manically - and although he mentioned to me that he was in contact with a bunch of old friends, he never told me exactly HOW MUCH contact with this particular "friend" -he was having. Too much! 
So, yeah, I cried and cried because I felt lied to, although they were lies of omission I suppose. He says he knew I would not like him being close to another woman which is why he didn't tell me and he readily admits he liked the friendship and it was like typing into the wind...and guess what? She never "reacted" or got mad or had conflict with him! Can you believe the luck? And guess what else? Her FB pictures were always her best Glam shots! (from the neck up! Sorry, that was mean.) 
Yes I was mad - and no, I don't want him close to anyone else. That's what I'm here for. So I'm in my marriage because I do forgive him, do love him and like Sigma wrote, we have to find out why he liked that attention from someone else and how he could possibly rationalize not telling me. I'm scared that he still doesnt "get" boundaries. He's very friendly with everyone - every kid, old person, man, woman, shop keeper and pet, knows him in the neighborhood and has good things to say about him. He just can't figure out if someone's batting their eyes at him or has a twitch. He would always assume it's a twitch. That is my dilemma. Thanks for listening everyone.


----------



## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Acabado said:


> AwfullyGuilty,
> 
> Originally Posted by lordmayhem View Post
> *List of Acronyms of Infidelity so the newbies can follow the infidelity lingo here*.
> ...


And my favorite, "POSOM."


----------



## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Juicer said:


> I think you'll have trouble finding ANYONE that will say yes to this question.


Anyone on this board, anyway. And there may even be some who would. I think I have seen enough to conclude that most either would prefer not to have been caught and face the fall out of that or on balance cared less about the fall out.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

timeforchange said:


> No.


Yes.

I don't say that hypothetically - I say it from experience - it's not hypothetical or theoretical. It can be reality - I'm very lucky that it is for my wife and me - which brings me to an interesting point relevant to this thread. 

My wife will say that my EA "was worth it" and yes I'm quoting her. I can't say that but I can get close. We've gained a lot in working together to rebuild our marriage, what we've gained neither of us would want to give up. I'm not sure she'd sign up for me to "have it again", but she'd get a lot closer than I would.


----------



## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Yes.
> 
> I don't say that hypothetically - I say it from experience - it's not hypothetical or theoretical. It can be reality - I'm very lucky that it is for my wife and me - which brings me to an interesting point relevant to this thread.
> 
> My wife will say that my EA "was worth it" and yes I'm quoting her. I can't say that but I can get close. We've gained a lot in working together to rebuild our marriage, what we've gained neither of us would want to give up. I'm not sure she'd sign up for me to "have it again", but she'd get a lot closer than I would.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

Sigma- youve probably heard it from other posters, but since I'm new(ish) here I will write,for the record, that you are so very helpful with your thoughtful insights to this forum. I agree with you completely. No one would ask for this willingly, but even I , only 10 months out since D day, agree that my H's EA certainly put a spotlight on issues that could have potentially been much worse further down the road if they hadn't been revealed at this early stage of our marriage. For starters... We're both off FB and hearing from an old flame would now cause a RED ALERT, where as before, I would have thought, "isn't FB great for reconnecting!!!" The "boundary" issues are another thing you brought up that never really occurred to me before either. The biggest lesson for me? Wow! Some women out there are really predatory. Having been raised with sisters and always having close women friends, I would never DREAM of flirting with someone else's H. Call me naive, but until I saw the lengths this OW went to to try and break my H down was indeed eye opening. Lesson learned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I have never had a PA or EA, so I can't give an answer.

But I was thinking what might cause a person to say "yes" that they would have the affair again.

Thinking maybe someone that was in a terrible marriage. That the EA gave them the strength to leave the marriage. They should still say "no" because they lost their dignity and honor by becoming a cheat rather than just leaving. But maybe the new relationship is so perfect, that while they regret cheating, they would still do it again, just to be out of the bad marriage and into a good one.

Or maybe someone that was in a terrible marriage and the affair somehow saved the marriage. That it made the couple realize what they had and realized they didn't want to lose it. That the couple had tried everything (IC, MC, etc.) and nothing was working. But the affair shook them up so much that they re-committed to the marriage.

Everyone knows cheating is wrong, but maybe for some, the result of the cheating is so good, that they would do it again.

Probably just fairy tales!!!!


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

If I knew what I know now, of course not. But at the young age of 25, there was only 1 thing controlling me at the time and it was between my legs and that of almost any other women out there in the world.

MY priorities back then

Sex > buddies > drinking > having fun > wife.

My wife was never an outdoors person and back then I had all the guy trips

Snowboarding, river rafting, camping, hunting, fishing, Vegas, etc...

Now a days

Kids & wife > everything else. Only took me an affair and almost 10 years to realize that.


----------



## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

Sigma 1299 - I'm in a bad way - please tell me how you could fall into the trap when it appears you love your wife so very much. I've had a few good weeks, but then today I fell apart. My H is no use. yes, he's sorry, but I don't understand how you would risk everything sacred to you for a voice from the past. Is it really true that you can compartmentalize? I don't see how you could possibly carry on a dual life if you are happy in your real life. Granted yours was only 7 weeks. My H 's was 2.5 years. I'm sick over it. I don't think I can go on with the marriage and just last week I was feeling like I had turned a corner. I asked him what made him vulnerable, and he said he liked being needed.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

BH2 - I went and read your original thread to be sure I had the background right. Honestly I can't believe I missed the thread - it's such a similar story to mine it's one I'd normally be very quick to post in. 

The first thing you have to understand is that what you are experiencing is why the collective set of emotions and reactions after D Day are called "The Roller Coaster." Regardless of if you reconcile or divorce you get to take the ride, there is no escaping it, so the best you can do is understand it for what it is. You have to look at it kind of like the stock market - it's never as good as the peaks and it's never as bad as the valleys - what you have to pay attention to is the direction of the trend. 

So to your questions. Is it true that people can compartmentalize? Absolutely. I was really good at it. Fundamentally it's a coping/defense mechanism. Affairs are enthralling, it's almost like getting completely caught up in a really engrossing movie or book - you don't want the story to end. Compartmentalization is what lets a cheater keep the story going yet continue on in their real lives with the spouse they presumably still love. It's a way to avoid having to face and reconcile what you are really doing. Having said that, at 7 weeks, mine almost killed me. Honestly I'm not sure I could have survived 2.5 years BUT I would have never thought I could have done what I did so I can't claim any high ground. I will freely admit though that duration is a factor in the damage done. 

As far as how I fell into the trap. Well, first I'll say that I think facebook - or online environments in general - catch many people off guard. Without realizing it since they're sitting at a computer they approach it like a video game and since video games are make believe people drop their boundaries. By the time someone figures out there is a real person on the other keyboard and they are in fact sharing themselves emotionally with someone other than their spouse it's too late - they're in and they're hooked. That's pretty much what happened to me. "Hi" went very quickly to pretty harmless flirting, which went quickly to more intense flirting that would have been out of bounds IRL (in real life), which then went on into a full blown EA. Somewhere between intense flirting and an actual EA I figured it out and I could have saved it at that point but I was hooked - I didn't want the story to end. 

You're trying to make logical sense of, to find a logical explanation for, something that is at its very core illogical. You're searching for something that fundamentally doesn't exist. Your H can spend a lot of time soul searching and figure out what in him set him up to do it but that still will not make logical sense. This isn't math, it is very complicated base emotions, fears, and personal demons. This is an area where 1 + 1 does not equal 2. Affairs are all about selfishness. Selfishness to the point of self destruction - how can there ever be a logical explanation for that?

When you have the bad times just try to take a deep breath and make no sudden decisions. Try to give it a day or three and see if your perspective changes. As time goes on you will see the trend and that more than anything will lead you toward the right answer for you. FWIW I'd say that the 9 - 12 month mark post d day was pretty tough for us to. The second year has been dramatically better than the first. Don't throw in the towel yet.

One question, why do you say your H is "no use?"


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Wow!! That's a long reply - Sorry about that.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

AwfullyGuilty said:


> I would never have mine.
> My marriage was complicated enough and even though I thought it would give me strength to leave, it never did. Just made me feel really bad about myself, for my husband and OM.


After being caught visiting a prostitute regularly, I vowed to my wife that I would never cheat. 

I meant it, too. 

But then later I got involved in an affair. It was like a compulsion that I had no control over. 

I didn't want to do it. I hated myself while in the affair, but I still did it. The thrill of the forbidden was so intoxicating. 

I think we can want to do one thing and vow to do one thing and then.......do another. 

IMO, I got hooked on having sex with more than one person.


----------



## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

sigma - I APPRECIATE your long reply. I will read it over again when I get home from work and hopefully be able to put to use your good advice and understanding.
I wrote that my H was of "no use" because most of the responses I get from him are of this variety: "I don't know" or "I don't remember." We've determined he is a classic "conflict avoider" through MC. This makes me feel he is leaving things out because he wants to avoid conflict with me. He steadfastly maintains that beyond a few flirty comments there was no sexual dynamic to the relationship - he had a crush on her in 7th grade - moved -never saw her again and then she reappeared though FB. Finding the collage she sent him is what tipped me off. It was pathetic in it's childish construction and shocking that a 46 year old woman would sit at her home, with her H probably in the next room, cutting and pasting this stupid collage for my H. TAM readers would be proud of me, even before I found this site, I had the gut reaction to expose! I sent the collage and a nice note to her H! 
My H did mention her in passing a few times - oh, I talked to ------------ today, and once told me she had sent him cookies to his office. Looking back- I remember those conversations - I can remember sensing there was something strange in his demeanor when he told me those pretty innocuous sounding things. Now I see it was guilt and him looking for a reaction from me. 
In his defense - he does not see, or sense women coming on to him, damn him, but he is one handsome, handsome man, I am rather plain looking. We met at a school function and his kindness attracted me. Helpful and kind to everyone. Even today, he is the one who will stop and pull over if a motorist is in trouble, or jump start someone's car, or help the poor old lady whose car alarm is going off and she's in a state of shock....those are the things I fell in love with. Plus we just have an unusual connection. Beyond explaining. It is because of that connection that I'm in such despair now.
So, some days I say, "so what?" But then, days like yesterday, I get the phone records out and pour over them again and I see exactly the date she called him after getting his info off FB and then I see the 327 texts from July to December 2009 and then the 677 texts from Jan to Dec.2010 and even tho it's clear they tapered off dramatically before I found out, (there were only 37 texts in 2011) I'm still suspect. One of the most upsetting things that I "deduced" from the phone records is that there was an unusual 41 minute call on my birthday 2011 - they hardly ever talked on the phone - and then there was no contact for 6 weeks, then she started in again. One text in Sept, one in Oct. one in November and then I found out in December. So my H is of no use because my gut tells me they had some kind of shift on that phone call - especially since it was my birthday, and he claims he remembers nothing of it. That's the stuff that hurts. 1)He likes to be needed. 2) He says he doesn't want women to want him sexually, he feels good helping people. 3) He says he never had sexual feelings for OW. He liked that they shared a history. 4) He didn't tell me because he thought I would make him end it, and he really enjoyed the friendship. He admits he is full of remorse for that one. 
Last night when I went over the WHOLE thing with him again, he looked defeated and said, "yeah. it was pretty F'd up..." Ugh. That's where we left it. Am I wrong here to feel so bad? I know she was after him, but I do see that it was never his intention to betray me. Maybe Im just mad at him for being blind and foolish. He is no match for a woman on the hunt, that is for sure. He only sees the good in people. Loved that about him in the beginning, now hate it! Sorry so long - it feels good to vent. Thank you. Comments appreciated.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

brokenhearted2 said:


> sigma - I APPRECIATE your long reply. I will read it over again when I get home from work and hopefully be able to put to use your good advice and understanding.
> I wrote that my H was of "no use" because most of the responses I get from him are of this variety: "I don't know" or "I don't remember." We've determined he is a classic "conflict avoider" through MC. This makes me feel he is leaving things out because he wants to avoid conflict with me. He steadfastly maintains that beyond a few flirty comments there was no sexual dynamic to the relationship - he had a crush on her in 7th grade - moved -never saw her again and then she reappeared though FB. Finding the collage she sent him is what tipped me off. It was pathetic in it's childish construction and shocking that a 46 year old woman would sit at her home, with her H probably in the next room, cutting and pasting this stupid collage for my H. TAM readers would be proud of me, even before I found this site, I had the gut reaction to expose! I sent the collage and a nice note to her H!
> My H did mention her in passing a few times - oh, I talked to ------------ today, and once told me she had sent him cookies to his office. Looking back- I remember those conversations - I can remember sensing there was something strange in his demeanor when he told me those pretty innocuous sounding things. Now I see it was guilt and him looking for a reaction from me.
> In his defense - he does not see, or sense women coming on to him, damn him, but he is one handsome, handsome man, I am rather plain looking. We met at a school function and his kindness attracted me. Helpful and kind to everyone. Even today, he is the one who will stop and pull over if a motorist is in trouble, or jump start someone's car, or help the poor old lady whose car alarm is going off and she's in a state of shock....those are the things I fell in love with. Plus we just have an unusual connection. Beyond explaining. It is because of that connection that I'm in such despair now.
> ...


OH man OH man....... Dejavu..... I dont remember, I dont know....

believe me- he does. And yes, he's avoiding the conflict. He sounds a whole whole whole lot like my H. Right sig? Complete w/no sexual component. 

I could offer alot here Sig. Let me know...


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

CTU - I suspect she could well benefit from your insight.

BH2 - It's his job to communicate to you. "Don't know" and "can't remember" simply aren't good enough - even if they are true. If they're true - Ok - let's start with talking about what you do know and do remember and figure it out as we go. Those answers can be and very likely are honest, but he doesn't have the luxury of stopping there. He has to bust his ass to find you the answers you need to the very best of his ability.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> CTU - I suspect she could well benefit from your insight.
> 
> BH2 - It's his job to communicate to you. "Don't know" and "can't remember" simply aren't good enough - even if they are true. If they're true - Ok - let's start with talking about what you do know and do remember and figure it out as we go. Those answers can be and very likely are honest, but he doesn't have the luxury of stopping there. He has to bust his ass to find you the answers you need to the very best of his ability.


Sig, you and I both know that while he very well may not remember some things he does remember others. He is likely trying to damage control and avoid conflict. Both things My H did for several months....

There is an element of selective memory in conflict avoidant people. Also, alot depends on rather or not BH2's H has a knack for recalling details or if its habit to be forgetful. For example, my H is very good at remembering even the slightest details so when he said things like "I dont remember" to virtually everything- it set off my BS meter. 

I agree, avoidance is not going to resolve these issues and will likely result in yet more affairs. He must face this issue head on. Outting himself and everything he knows about the affair in order to disect who, what, when, where and most importantly WHY?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

brokenhearted2 said:


> Okay, back home and back to this. Work is starting to feel like home, and home is feeling like work - not a good sign.
> Thank you sigma and CTU for your replies. How do I find CTU's thread?
> Anyway H maintains as of 8:30 this morning that he does not consider this friendship an affair. So, right out of the gate we're stuck on that one. What he will admit to: should never have kept it separate from his real life. That he felt a bond with her - only because they grew up together, a block away and knew her through elementary school through 7th grade. They had friends in common. (Thanks FB.) She knew his mother and father and siblings.
> She appeared (to him) to care about his life and was interested in many details about me. He saw that as taking an interest in me and his life, I see it dramatically different - she wanted to assess the enemy. Size me up, so to speak. He saw her as innocent and needing guidance and someone to talk to because her own H "didn't understand her, compliment her or communicate with her." (Yes, really.) H claims, without a doubt, if he hadn't known her from childhood, he would have had nothing in common with her and there would have been nothing to connect to.
> ...


BH2-Lets continue but I fear we are thread jacking here.....

start your own thread or continue on your original and I'll be happy to join you.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> BH2-Lets continue but I fear we are thread jacking here.....
> 
> start your own thread or continue on your original and I'll be happy to join you.


Ditto for me. I'm glad to participate but I think we need to return this thread to the original owner.


----------



## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

yeah. oops sorry about that... Perhaps it will all serve as a cautionary tale for those on the fence, who have even thought an EA could be harmless. I finally figured out how to find my original thread so I'll post back on there and certainly look forward to comments and help from sigma and CTU and anyone else. Thank you.


----------

