# How do you CHOOSE to leave someone you love?



## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

Yesterday, I posted a thread about my current issues with my husband. Many kind people responded to my thread and gave me their words of wisdom. I am so grateful. 

We talked again last night and I _again_ grasped at straws by asking him if he's willing to do anything to save the marriage. He said that if he did anything differently, it would be fake because it would be unsustainable and that he'll never change. It was in that moment that I realized he has a "fixed mindset" while I have a "growth mindset". He doesn't believe anyone can ever change in fundamental ways and I believe the complete opposite.

When I told him that his inactivity and passivity would result in the end of our marriage, that he is essentially choosing to end our marriage, he disagreed. He said that he was happy with our how our marriage was and he is happy with who I am as a person. He said that I'm the one who wants something different now and so I'll be the one to choose to leave. 

I don't know why but I find this "choice" debilitating. I can't wrap my head around how anyone can CHOOSE to leave someone they love. I always imagined people left marriages because they were truly unhappy, they fell out of love, or perhaps because of an infidelity. I know in my heart of hearts I need to leave this marriage (mainly because I want a family and he doesn't). I know that this distance between us will always feel sharply painful. But how do I even move towards the pain of making this choice?

I guess with this post, I'm looking for comfort or maybe some practical advice. I struggle with anxiety (which has gotten much better from meditation and yoga) and when I think about separating I feel the anxiety and panic rising. I feel like I'm going to make a step in the right direction and just panic or fall apart. I keep thinking about everything that I'm going to lose because I can't even begin to imagine what I might possibly gain in the future.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife had an affair. I discovered she had lied to me for over 6 years, since the day we met to get me to want to date her, then to marry her, and on and on. The lies crushed me more than the affair, by far.

I was truly unhappy. I made her truly unhappy. Fidelity failed. I pushed her into swinging as my easiest route to having a revenge affair.

But we stayed together. We have very similar views on most things. Certainly on things we think count.

In time this break in your viewpoint on this most basic of things with your husband's opinion will lead you to loose love for him, and then to becoming unhappy, then to misery. If you are brave enough to leave now you can still fulfill your dream of having a family. If you wait then you may become old and bitter, and not only lose love for him, but also the opportunity to have your children.

Your desire is just as important as any desire he has. Any desire he has!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

It is possible.

You are more in love with the idea of being in love than you are with the man you think you are in love with.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

purplesunsets said:


> I guess with this post, I'm looking for comfort or maybe some practical advice. I struggle with anxiety (which has gotten much better from meditation and yoga) and when I think about separating I feel the anxiety and panic rising. I feel like I'm going to make a step in the right direction and just panic or fall apart. I keep thinking about everything that I'm going to lose because I can't even begin to imagine what I might possibly gain in the future.


Your situation sounds very similar to what I went through.

My ex-husband was extremely passive. He could be kind and generous and giving in his own way, yet he was either unwilling or unable to offer leadership, opinions, or preferences. And our marriage was without intimacy.

During our years together, I'd be the one to initiate conversations about our lack of sex. They'd seem to go very well, and he'd act like we were together in our decision-making, but nothing would change. 

I tried to schedule sex. That lasted exactly one week before he said no more. I tried asking him about his fantasies - he declined. I didn't initiate sex often, but the last time I did, and he refused, I thought to myself - I'm done.

During our separation, we talked on three separate occasions about how to improve the marriage, and he'd just get angry. I was told that he wanted to be accepted as he was and that he wasn't going to promise that anything would change.

I asked him if he'd work through Harville Hendrix's book, _Getting the Love You Want_. He agreed and took the book, and never brought it up again.

I asked to go to counseling. We went together once, and he was stonewall silent with his arms crossed like a petulant little boy. He went once on his own and never said one word about it.

His behavior came across to me like he didn't care whether or not we stayed married, he just didn't want to be the bad guy.

So, I divorced him. It was the most painful experience of my life, but I don't regret it.

I also deal with anxiety, and it was an extremely uncomfortable situation. But I lived, and I'm fine now - and free.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

purplesunsets said:


> Yesterday, I posted a thread about my current issues with my husband. Many kind people responded to my thread and gave me their words of wisdom. I am so grateful.
> 
> We talked again last night and I _again_ grasped at straws by asking him if he's willing to do anything to save the marriage. He said that if he did anything differently, it would be fake because it would be unsustainable and that he'll never change. It was in that moment that I realized he has a "fixed mindset" while I have a "growth mindset". He doesn't believe anyone can ever change in fundamental ways and I believe the complete opposite.
> 
> ...


One thing that I have been coming to acknowledge in my life is that for the longest time when people close to me tell me who they are, I have gone into denial and made excuses or rationalized what they say away. My instinct when I hear things that make me uncomfortable is to say maybe even in my own head "You say that but you really don't mean that you mean this." But the truth is it doesn't matter because in the end, they end up being exactly who they say they are. 

Another thing that has helped me in life, and is probably why I am one of the quicker voices to suggest divorce when their is infidelity is that I have fully accepted that every relationship you have in this life is one day going to end. Everyone, it's just a matter of when. No matter what you do there is going to be a time where your relationship with your husband, even if it was perfect, would still end. In fact ending is as big a part of life as any other thing, probably the most consistent. Coming to terms with that helps you make better decisions.

Also Love though very important is not and should never be the only reason to stay in a relationship. Maybe even not the most important. 

Sounds like your husband told you that this is who he is, he is fine with it whether you are or not. This also doesn't make him wrong or a bad person. It might make him a bad choice though.

Edit:

So I read your other post, don't know why i missed it. I wonder if there is something deep seeded that is causing him not to talk. Have you asked him? There are some people who are just not very emotionally deep though. It's scary but maybe he just doesn't have any emotional depth to draw from. Again that doesn't make him a bad guy but it might make him a bad choice.

Regardless, the no kids thing is a totally reasonable deal breaker.


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## jlcrome (Nov 5, 2017)

From what you have describe about your husband he seems shy/introverted to the extreme. Been there I know what it is being that way. It is very hard to break out of it. The shy/introverted types internalizes to the extreme. It hard to break pass the internalizing it really does takes years to come out of that shell. Shy/introverted types are also insecure about themselves. If this sounds like your husband a simple conversation seems like a dead end. From what I read this can be a bigger problem than the having kids problem. Maybe over time he will be more assertive and outgoing it takes determination and willpower. Things that need to be addressed is self-esteem, confidence, internalizing, ect.. 
I put it this way imagine a ping pong table with two people playing. One hits the ball to the other and the other hits the ball back. They will continue the back and forth until a miss. This is just an illustration as a conversation. What introverts don't understand is when the ball is hit to them they balk. Somewhere I read that in a book years ago. The ping pong analogy in his mind it seems perfectly normal maybe not return the ball. 
Hope this makes sense as for leaving him heck I have no advice for that.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I'm more situated within the acceptable Biblical realm for divorce!

Which is: (1) infidelity and gross deception, (2) spousal abuse, or (3) abuse of a child or adult!

In the event of any of these, I'd have absolutely no qualms in leaving them and filing for divorce! 

I will not live with someone who disrespects me enough to wantonly violate our marital vows!*


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

You ask what you have to gain in the future by leaving? How about that family you want? How about an emotional, intellectual, and physical connection with a man who also wants a family? Those sound like fairly wonderful things to gain.

It's hard to leave someone you love. I have watched more than one friend go through it though I haven't been there myself. From mo observation, those men and women I saw do it made the decision, formulated a plan, and enacted their plan. Yes, they experienced the whole range of emotion, but they followed their plan and changed their lives.


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

If he said he was unsure about having kids I would say give him some more time. It's not unusual for guys in their 20's to be unsure about that. But if he's telling you he doesn't want kids I would believe him. 

If you decide to end things you'll have the huge emotional benefit of having a very tangible deal breaker reason as to why the decision was right for you. It will be much harder for you to second guess the decision when you want kids and he doesn't. Personally, I've never regretted a break up once the dust settles. Tough spot to be in though. I feel for you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Love alone can't save a marriage. Many people end relationships with someone they love because they just aren't compatible. 

Your husband is happy with the marriage and doesn't care that you aren't. What does that tell you?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Yes. The fact your husband is content with your discontent is very unsettling.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

He is right that the two of you want different things in life. He's happy with the marriage and flat out does not care that you are not. Either you give up who you are and slowly disappear emotionally, or you divorce him. It's your choice.

If you want to see how a good marriage should work, read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". You should probably read these books whether you stay with him or not because no matter what you do, you need understand that makes a healthy marriage.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> He is right that the two of you want different things in life. He's happy with the marriage and flat out does not care that you are not. Either you give up who you are and slowly disappear emotionally, or you divorce him. It's your choice.
> 
> If you want to see how a good marriage should work, read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". You should probably read these books whether you stay with him or not because no matter what you do, you need understand that makes a healthy marriage.


YES. It is very concerning that he's happy, and doesn't care whether you are or not. That's very selfish, and it's also an unhealthy dynamic. Healthy couples make one another's happiness a priority.

And honestly, after your last thread, this response on his part doesn't surprise me at all.

If he says he will never change, he will NEVER change. People only change when they want to.

You can be married to him, or you can be happy. I'm afraid you can't have both. He has made that abundantly clear.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

Wow, I woke up this morning and read through these comments. I am so grateful for all of your kind words and support. Thank you!


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

FeministInPink said:


> YES. It is very concerning that he's happy, and doesn't care whether you are or not. That's very selfish, and it's also an unhealthy dynamic. Healthy couples make one another's happiness a priority.
> 
> And honestly, after your last thread, this response on his part doesn't surprise me at all.
> 
> ...


I feel so blind to have not seen what a few of you have commented on. Why doesn't he care about my happiness? Why is that not important enough to make sacrifices? It really hurts to think that I don't matter enough to him to at least TRY. It is incredibly selfish. He's also just too lazy (and extremely passive) to care about doing any "work" in a relationship. I always knew he was lazy and passive, but I never realized how this would affect our communication and problem solving.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> He is right that the two of you want different things in life. He's happy with the marriage and flat out does not care that you are not. Either you give up who you are and slowly disappear emotionally, or you divorce him. It's your choice.
> 
> If you want to see how a good marriage should work, read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". You should probably read these books whether you stay with him or not because no matter what you do, you need understand that makes a healthy marriage.


Thank you for the book recommendations. I definitely need to learn what a healthy marriage is now that I have such a distorted one. Our marriage has been incredibly one-sided. I do almost all the housework, handle all of the problems that come our way, and clearly try to solve our marital problems on our own. To be honest, I'm more tired than anything. Not a whole lot will change when I'm alone because I pretty much do everything x2.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

minimalME said:


> Your situation sounds very similar to what I went through.
> 
> My ex-husband was extremely passive. He could be kind and generous and giving in his own way, yet he was either unwilling or unable to offer leadership, opinions, or preferences. And our marriage was without intimacy.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for sharing your story. It really helps. That sounds like a very frustrating situation but I'm happy to hear you left him and feel good about your decision!

What I'm struggling right now is the panic that arises when I decide in my head (and especially if I saw it out loud to anyone) that I'm going to leave him. Like the other day when I told him I wanted to separate, the next day my stomach was in knots all day, I was throwing up, having panic attacks, couldn't focus. I can't even begin to think about the reality of it. I'm studying my master's and trying to open my own business. It seems like this huge change will set back all of my other goals. 

So part of my wants to wait until I finish school and find a decent job that will allow me to support myself without a partner. The other part of my wants to get on with my life so I can open up space to meet someone who wants a family. The reality of my ticking biological clock doesn't help either!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

purplesunsets said:


> Thank you for the book recommendations. I definitely need to learn what a healthy marriage is now that I have such a distorted one. Our marriage has been incredibly one-sided. I do almost all the housework, handle all of the problems that come our way, and clearly try to solve our marital problems on our own. To be honest, I'm more tired than anything. Not a whole lot will change when I'm alone because I pretty much do everything x2.




In my opinion you also do all the loving.

If my wife had been able to tell me what her needs were, I would have moved heaven and earth to find a way we could both have our needs met.

I know she was terribly frightened by her own mental illness, and had no control over it, so I forgive her everything. 

But if she had been able to tell me, I would have made it happen. I think that’s love.

I don’t think your husband cares about you.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

WilliamM said:


> I*n my opinion you also do all the loving.*
> 
> If my wife had been able to tell me what her needs were, I would have moved heaven and earth to find a way we could both have our needs met.
> 
> ...


I agree. I do. It's tiring. I used to excuse his behaviour and say to myself that he shows his love in other ways but I think the fact that he didn't do anything for our anniversary OR my birthday when I specifically asked him to make me feel special...well, I guess that shows that he doesn't really care, can't be bothered, doesn't want to make an effort. Sigh.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

purplesunsets said:


> I agree. I do. It's tiring. I used to excuse his behaviour and say to myself that he shows his love in other ways but I think the fact that he didn't do anything for our anniversary OR my birthday when I specifically asked him to make me feel special...well, I guess that shows that he doesn't really care, can't be bothered, doesn't want to make an effort. Sigh.




I am sorry. That is truly hurtful.

I have never understood how anyone could claim they care about someone and yet forget their birthday or an anniversary. It’s unthinkable.

My wife has never reminded me, and I have never forgotten. She doesn’t like presents, but she loves my attention. I try to take vacation on her birthday every year. 

She takes my money and sends it away to other people and calls it her presents.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

WilliamM said:


> *I am sorry. That is truly hurtful.
> 
> I have never understood how anyone could claim they care about someone and yet forget their birthday or an anniversary. It’s unthinkable.*
> 
> ...


Thank you. It was :frown2:. The thing is, he didn't forget either...which I think is worse. He knew that it was our anniversary and my birthday. He just didn't get me anything or do anything because "That's just the way I am.". I think I've never been so annoyed with someone hiding behind their own personality. It's bull****. If I were to throw his stuff (like I used to do when I hadn't started dealing with my anger), and then just keep saying "That's just the way I am" and expect him to stay... wow, we both would be idiots. And yet, the reverse is happening and I'm staying...I guess I'm the idiot.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Idiot?

Hmm.

Well. Yes.

But in a nice way.

Too caring. Too loving. Too forgiving.

By far the hardest way to give up being. We don't want you to stop being those things. But we want you to be held by a man who appreciates those things with all his heart.

A catch 22 kind of thing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

purplesunsets said:


> Thank you for the book recommendations. I definitely need to learn what a healthy marriage is now that I have such a distorted one. Our marriage has been incredibly one-sided. I do almost all the housework, handle all of the problems that come our way, and clearly try to solve our marital problems on our own. To be honest, I'm more tired than anything. Not a whole lot will change when I'm alone because I pretty much do everything x2.


In a lopsided marriage like yours, it's understandable that you would be tired and over time it will kill your love for your husband. It will also cause you serious problems.

I've been through this myself and can tell you that it's not good for you to stay in relationship that dumps everything on you.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

WilliamM said:


> Idiot?
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> ...


You are so kind. Thank you for saying that. I want that too. I never imagined that I'd feel more supported by strangers than my own husband. It's nice to have the words of encouragement and support. I'm so glad I found this website!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

purplesunsets said:


> I feel so blind to have not seen what a few of you have commented on. Why doesn't he care about my happiness? Why is that not important enough to make sacrifices? It really hurts to think that I don't matter enough to him to at least TRY. It is incredibly selfish. He's also just too lazy (and extremely passive) to care about doing any "work" in a relationship. I always knew he was lazy and passive, but I never realized how this would affect our communication and problem solving.


Some people do not understand the different between being true to one's self and meeting their spouse's needs. He seems to think that putting in some effort to meet your needs if giving up some of himself. We see this often actually.

You are not asking him to change who he is at the core. But he thinks you are.

Or he's just lazy, is happy and thinks that if he's happy and surely your complaints are just the proverbial woman nagging.

You might find this article interesting: *Get Relationship Advice and Solve Marriage Problems with Michele Weiner-Davis - Divorce Busting®*

In one of your posts, you said that he does not acknowledge things like your birthday and anniversary. My ex used to do that and I was able to get through to him after several years of him ignoring special days to include not giving me xmas presents.

In the first few years that we were married, he did not give me anything for my birthday, valentines day or Christmas. But when it came to him, he would start telling me want he wanted days before his birthday or Christmas. At first I would get him what he wanted and more.

Then I got smart. One year on his birthday I did not get him anything. Plus I did not remind the kids that it was his birthday. And no birthday dinner, nothing. By the end of the day on his birthday he was a whining about how could I forget his birthday. So I told him _"You never acknowledge my birthday, Christmas, Valentines day, etc. So clearly these days are not important to you. I don't want to embarrass you by making a big deal out of them anymore."_ From that day forward he made a big deal of all of my special days. We are divorced now and he still does.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> In a lopsided marriage like yours, it's understandable that you would be tired and over time *it will kill your love for your husband.* It will also cause you serious problems.
> 
> I've been through this myself and can tell you that it's not good for you to stay in relationship that dumps everything on you.


I wish it could kill it sooner to make this whole separation easier. I would have left yesterday if I didn't have any love for him left. I think the only things holding me back at this point are: my love for him, my self-deception (still thinking he'll change..I know, stupid..), my anxiety about the uncertainty of my future and living alone (when I lived alone before moving with him, I had frequent panic attacks), and my financial situation (I'm studying my master's and starting my own business so he pays for quite a big chunk of our bills at the moment). 

I feel like I can control some of these things...like the self-deception and love thing is actually getting easier to manage logically by talking about it here and hearing others' perspectives. My anxiety, well, I could go on medication for the transition but I ended up throwing up when I took it yesterday. And my financial situation, well, I'd have to find another job or leave my job for a higher paying job or take a leave of absence from school...and that causes me the most anxiety because it's too many big life changes. I'd have to change my living situation, my partner, AND my job... wow. That's a lot even for someone who doesn't struggle with anxiety. But I guess it's the same for any divorce...except maybe the job part?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

purplesunsets said:


> I feel so blind to have not seen what a few of you have commented on. Why doesn't he care about my happiness? Why is that not important enough to make sacrifices? It really hurts to think that I don't matter enough to him to at least TRY. It is incredibly selfish. He's also just too lazy (and extremely passive) to care about doing any "work" in a relationship. I always knew he was lazy and passive, but I never realized how this would affect our communication and problem solving.


When we are in love (or infatuated) with another person, we sometimes fall in love with the idea of them rather than who they really _are_, and in that state of being it is difficult to recognize someone's faults and how they will hurt us and how they will be dysfunctional in a relationship.

You mentioned in your previous thread that English isn't his native language, so I'm assuming that has a different country of origin/cultural background than you do. Part of this may be cultural, it is accepted in his culture that this is how men act in a relationship, and he truly sees nothing wrong with it. If so, he should have married someone with the same cultural background, if he wanted his wife to accept this.

Or, he could just be a jerk.

I'm going with the second option.



purplesunsets said:


> What I'm struggling right now is the panic that arises when I decide in my head (and especially if I saw it out loud to anyone) that I'm going to leave him. *Like the other day when I told him I wanted to separate, the next day my stomach was in knots all day, I was throwing up, having panic attacks, couldn't focus.* I can't even begin to think about the reality of it. I'm studying my master's and trying to open my own business. It seems like this huge change will set back all of my other goals.
> 
> So part of my wants to wait until I finish school and find a decent job that will allow me to support myself without a partner. The other part of my wants to get on with my life so I can open up space to meet someone who wants a family. The reality of my ticking biological clock doesn't help either!


Feeling this way (bolded above) is completely normal. It won't last forever. Your heart and your brain are out of sync and they want different things; they are at odds with one another, and that's why you feel this way. What helped me was talking myself out of it. I took an index card, and I wrote on it a list of all the reasons that leaving was good for me, and why staying was bad for me. And whenever I started getting like that, I would pull the card out and read it to myself, like a mantra, over and over until the panicky feelings subsided. It may also be helpful for you if you start putting a plan in place for leaving, so there are fewer uncertainties in regards to your future. Start planning and daydreaming about the world of possibilities that will be open to you outside of this marriage. Think about what you really want out of life... and how you're not going to get them if you stay in this marriage.

How much longer do you have until you finish grad school? And how old are you? It may be easier to finish grad school and then separate, and work on detaching emotionally and focus on your schoolwork before leaving. And financially, it may be easier as well. But whether or not you can do that is up to you. And depending on how old you are, you may still have plenty of time for babies after, or you may not.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I can tell you from experience that the longer you wait to leave the harder it is to do so. 

It's easier to stay and make excuses (I did that for decades). 

Don't.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

purplesunsets said:


> I wish it could kill it sooner to make this whole separation easier. I would have left yesterday if I didn't have any love for him left. I think the only things holding me back at this point are: my love for him, my self-deception (still thinking he'll change..I know, stupid..), my anxiety about the uncertainty of my future and living alone (when I lived alone before moving with him, I had frequent panic attacks), and my financial situation (I'm studying my master's and starting my own business so he pays for quite a big chunk of our bills at the moment).
> 
> I feel like I can control some of these things...like the self-deception and love thing is actually getting easier to manage logically by talking about it here and hearing others' perspectives. My anxiety, well, I could go on medication for the transition but I ended up throwing up when I took it yesterday. And my financial situation, well, I'd have to find another job or leave my job for a higher paying job or take a leave of absence from school...and that causes me the most anxiety because it's too many big life changes. I'd have to change my living situation, my partner, AND my job... wow. That's a lot even for someone who doesn't struggle with anxiety. But I guess it's the same for any divorce...except maybe the job part?


From what you wrote here, I think you need to take this slowly so that you have time to deal with your own issues. I do not recall, are you in counseling for yourself? If not, I think you would benefit from it.

If the situation is so bad that you have to take anti-anxiety meds to deal with it... well it's very bad.

Something that might help you is for you to stop concentrating on him and instead put 100% of your focus on yourself. You don't have to rush out right now and file for divorce. Instead I suggest that you start making your life more about you. What are you doing for yourself right now? Do you work out regularly? Do you have friends who you do things with?

If I were you, I would not rush out to change your job situation just yet. At least not until you get the anxiety under control and you build a stronger support system and created a life that you know will sustain you outside of this marriage.

One thing that came to mind is that the reason that your husband is happy and does not care about whether or not you are happy is because this is what you have allowed. You make sure that his needs are met and you ignore yourself. Then when you complain to him he thinks you are just nagging.... after all if you thought that you needs were important, you would not have been pushing them aside for so long. Perhaps he's been following your lead on this.

I hate to burry you under a pile of books, but there is another that you might want to read before "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". The book is *Divorce Busting: A Step-By-Step Approach to Making Your Marriage Loving Again by Michele Weiner Davis*

In this book, there is a chapter on how changing one thing in the environment will change the entire everything. 

No one can make another person change. You can only change yourself. But when you change yourself, your husband will change. You have no control over how he changes, but hopefully it will be in a way that helps to build a better marriage. It's worth a try I would think.

So, in talking about changing yourself, I'll ask again, what are you doing for yourself these days?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Listen to @EleGirl and @FeministInPink. They are spot on with their advice here. I'd add more, but I'd distract from their wisdom here.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

FeministInPink said:


> purplesunsets said:
> 
> 
> > I feel so blind to have not seen what a few of you have commented on. Why doesn't he care about my happiness? Why is that not important enough to make sacrifices? It really hurts to think that I don't matter enough to him to at least TRY. It is incredibly selfish. He's also just too lazy (and extremely passive) to care about doing any "work" in a relationship. I always knew he was lazy and passive, but I never realized how this would affect our communication and problem solving.
> ...


I don't know how to tag people here yet (is it like Instagram? Haha). I think it is cultural and also his personality. I don't think he does these things to be malicious. I think he is extremely selfish though. 

I'm 27 and I'll be done my post-grad this December. A long time ago, I had planned on being pregnant by 28 but that is definitely not going to happen and I'm not ready for that yet.

I love your tip about the index cards! I'm going to do that. Today I wrote a list of what I get out of the marriage and what I don't.. that was pretty eye-opening.

Every day when I walk my dog, I ask myself what I want out of life, what I like, what my dreams are. I feel I sacrificed so much to be with him that I'm not even living the life I want with him... I do most of the things I love without him.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> purplesunsets said:
> 
> 
> > I wish it could kill it sooner to make this whole separation easier. I would have left yesterday if I didn't have any love for him left. I think the only things holding me back at this point are: my love for him, my self-deception (still thinking he'll change..I know, stupid..), my anxiety about the uncertainty of my future and living alone (when I lived alone before moving with him, I had frequent panic attacks), and my financial situation (I'm studying my master's and starting my own business so he pays for quite a big chunk of our bills at the moment).
> ...


I think in my head I do a lot for myself... but my thoughts are generally focused on him and our relationship. For myself, I walk my dog (that's probably more for him though), I do yoga almost daily, I meditate every day... the rest of my time is spent studying and working. 

I'm pretty introverted and feel overwhelmed when it comes to going out and meeting new people/socializing. I'm really into self-improvement and spirituality so I read lots (so I actually looovveee being buried in your book recommendations, haha!). 

But you're right, I need to make it all about me for once. I need to start visualizing a future that better matches my own desires and dreams. 

Thank you so much for your advice!!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

purplesunsets said:


> But how do I even move towards the pain of making this choice?


The same way we do anything; one step at a time. Decide what you need to do and how you go about it, then start with the first item on the list and move on through until you are done. 

As Winston Churchill said, "When you're going through hell, keep going." Stopping in the middle or turning back doesn't solve anything. You have to keep going until you have passed right through the fire and are on the other side. Sometimes hell is between you and what you want. The only way to what you want is straight through.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

purplesunsets said:


> I don't know how to tag people here yet (is it like Instagram? Haha). I think it is cultural and also his personality. I don't think he does these things to be malicious. I think he is extremely selfish though.
> 
> I'm 27 and I'll be done my post-grad this December. A long time ago, I had planned on being pregnant by 28 but that is definitely not going to happen and I'm not ready for that yet.
> 
> ...


Ok, so you still have a lot of time on the baby thing, even if it's not your ideal time frame. They say that fertility drops drastically after 35, but when you actually look at the numbers, it's actually not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. And a lot can change in just a few years. You could meet someone and be pregnant by 30, you never know!

And you only have less than a year left for school, that's great!

I would recommend separating when the lease on your current place is up for renewal. (I'm assuming you are renting.) It will be a clean break, financially. Between now and then, consult a lawyer about how to best protect yourself and your assets. Two-three months before the lease is up, start looking for a new apartment/place to live. I would recommend find a real estate agent who does rentals to help you find something available when you need it in your price range. They will can do the leg work, and all you have to do is look at properties. The best thing is if you're a renter, it's a free service to you--they get paid by the landlord when you sign a lease. (At least this is true where I live. If someone says they charge a finder's fee, shop around.) You'll want to open a bank account in only your name at a DIFFERENT BANK, and you may want to use this account for your security deposit. Make sure all credit cards are paid off, and either close the joint accounts or take your name off the accounts right before you have "the talk." Do the same (take name off joint accounts) with the bank accounts, after you have withdrawn your half (and no more!), immediately before having "the talk." Double check ALL this with the lawyer, but I am recommending all this so he cannot drain the accounts and run up the credit cards out of vengeance after the talk.

Before the talk, get copies of ALL important paperwork and any valuables and put them in a safe place, like a safe deposit box, or with a trusted friend or family member.

You must inform your landlord 30 days prior to the lease end date if you plan to renew or leave, so you will need to have the talk with H no later than this date. He may want you out immediately after the talk, and you will likely want to leave, so I would suggest having the new place lined up to start a month before your current lease ends, or plan on couch surfing for a month or something else 

Oh, and change all your passwords for everything, just in case.

I think that once you have a timeline and a clear plan in place, this will help with your anxiety. And when you go talk to the lawyer, find out about timelines for separation and divorce, etc. and ask what the likely outcome of this process will be for you. You haven't been married long and there aren't kids involved, so you don't have to worry about custody or child support, and spousal support likely won't be an issue.

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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

purplesunsets said:


> . He said that I'm the one who wants something different now and so I'll be the one to choose to leave.
> .


He does have a point there. 

If he is happy and content, he has no reason to change or to dissolve the relationship. 

If you are the one discontent, then it does stand to reason that it will be on you to either disrupt the status quo or to move on. 

But in your defense, he has been warned and yet he chooses to do nothing so he is making informed consent to your departure. 

......he probably just doesn't think you will actually do it, and thus far he has been correct.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

purplesunsets said:


> But how do I even move towards the pain of making this choice?
> 
> .


You will choose to leave when the pain of staying out weighs the fear of leaving. 

In time the pain you *know* you will experience will outweigh the fear and anxiety of the unknown. 

When that day arrives you will pack up and go.

When the known reality becomes a worse fate than the nightmare scenarios of the unknown that you are conjuring up in your own head, dissolving the relationship will become a natural act.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

Thank you @FeministInPink (I hope that tag works). Your practical advice is helping a lot. I still can't say it out loud but perhaps by the time I have everything planned, I'll be able to say it. I also know that I'm not going to blind-side him. I've told him a few times in the past few months that if something doesn't change, we're going to separate. So, @oldshirt , I guess you're right. He doesn't believe me because I keep saying this bs and then don't do anything differently.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He's fine with his life. You're not fine with yours so it's up to you to fix it. He never will. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's worth it. 

I should have gotten out of my marriage when I was your age. Instead I waited several decades longer. Don't be me.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Openminded said:


> He's fine with his life. You're not fine with yours so it's up to you to fix it. He never will. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's worth it.
> 
> I should have gotten out of my marriage when I was your age. Instead I waited several decades longer. Don't be me.


I agree. I was married for ~6 years, which was about 5 years too long. I waited until the pain outweighed the fear (and I had a LOT of fear due to FOO issues), and as a result I endured years of emotional abuse and trauma, all of which I could have avoided if I had the courage to leave earlier.

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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

purplesunsets said:


> . I also know that I'm not going to blind-side the . I've told him a few times in the past few months that if something doesn't change, we're going to separate. So, @oldshirt , I guess you're right. He doesn't believe me because I keep saying this bs and then don't do anything differently.



Yes, you are making your own bed here. 

The more you threaten it, the less likely he will take any action because all it is to him is blah blah blah blah. It's background noise. 

When you are motivated to do so - just do it.

Do it for you.

Do it for your own well being and benefit, not to change him. 

If you say or do things just to get him to do what you want, that is nothing more than manipulation on your part.

You have informed him and he has chosen to take no action.

The ball is now squarely in your court.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> purplesunsets said:
> 
> 
> > . I also know that I'm not going to blind-side the . I've told him a few times in the past few months that if something doesn't change, we're going to separate. So, @oldshirt , I guess you're right. He doesn't believe me because I keep saying this bs and then don't do anything differently.
> ...


Yep, it totally is and I'm dropping the ball every other day. Haha. I fumbled and initiated sex the other night. Then yesterday yelled at him... I sound crazy, perhaps I am.. but I'm finding it so hard to leave. 

I imagine it'll get easier and easier as I continue to talk about it here and get the encouragement from all you kind strangers! I've been writing lots and that's been giving me insight.

Today as I walked to work I kept reminding myself to think about what I want and need as opposed to my marriage and husband. It helped a bit. However, when I thought about a house, car, kids... I didn't feel as much as I thought I would. Maybe I've conditioned myself to not feel as passionate about these things so I can stay with him. Or perhaps I can't feel strongly about these unknowns that come with a high price tag (figuratively and literally). The only thing I could think about consistently is my spiritual growth. So I'll focus on that!


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

FeministInPink said:


> Openminded said:
> 
> 
> > He's fine with his life. You're not fine with yours so it's up to you to fix it. He never will. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's worth it.
> ...


Sorry but what is FOO?  

Thank you so much for all your advice. It has been so helpful!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

purplesunsets said:


> Yep, it totally is and I'm dropping the ball every other day. Haha. I fumbled and initiated sex the other night. Then yesterday yelled at him... I sound crazy, perhaps I am.. !


Let me tell you a little something about men that maybe your mom or grandma forgot to mention or maybe you missed it.

Men are very simple creatures and don't really need much. 

The average guy needs some food and water every few days (a burger and donut can fill in for a day or two), some kind of water proof barrier over his head when it's raining. A flat hunk of ground, preferably with some kind of padding to sleep. A place to take a dump (the whole world is his urinal ).

.........and he needs an occasional, and preferably a steady piece of poon. 

And in a perfect world, he'd also like a TV and somewhat comfy chair.

If he has those things - he is good. The world is good. Life is good. Why rock the boat?

So if he is with a woman and she is having sex with him and is not dousing him with gas and setting him on fire or taking a sledgehammer to his TV - everything is ok in his world.

An average woman complains about roughly 3.58 x 10 to 4th power of things during the course of a normal day so it is hard for an average Homer Simpson to filter out what he really needs to address vs what is just her venting.

His primary filter is going to be if she is still draining his tank or not.

If she isn't - then there is a disruption in the The Force and he will twist himself into pretzels to figure out what is wrong and how to fix it.

If she is still screwing him = everything is A-OK. 

To him, if you are snuggling up to him and scoring some putenanny off of him at night - then everything is perfectly ok and life is good. 

You are not being heard here. 

You are going to have to blow something up that means something to him.


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## purplesunsets (Feb 26, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> purplesunsets said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, it totally is and I'm dropping the ball every other day. Haha. I fumbled and initiated sex the other night. Then yesterday yelled at him... I sound crazy, perhaps I am.. !
> ...


Hahahaha omg. Thank you for providing me with some much needed laughter and some much needed insight into the mind of a man . 

Alright so I'm doing a 180 on the sex front... shall I damage his gaming chair? Just kidding! I couldn't do that.

I haven't been cooking for "us" lately too... just me. It's hard and I feel bad but oh well. Now I need to say bye bye in the bedroom. Which I have started as of last night... haha so not too long. 

I think my "sexual" brain and my "logical" brain are not connected at all....


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

purplesunsets said:


> Sorry but what is FOO?
> 
> Thank you so much for all your advice. It has been so helpful!


FOO means "family of origin."

Most people's dysfunctional behaviors can be traced to what they learned from their FOO as children, and the subsequent coping mechanisms they developed as a result.

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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

purplesunsets said:


> Hahahaha omg. Thank you for providing me with some much needed laughter and some much needed insight into the mind of a man .
> 
> Alright so I'm doing a 180 on the sex front... shall I damage his gaming chair? Just kidding! I couldn't do that.
> 
> ...


If you cut off the sex, you may find that it is easier to detach. If you can detach, everything else will become easier.

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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

purplesunsets said:


> Hahahaha omg. Thank you for providing me with some much needed laughter and some much needed insight into the mind of a man .
> 
> Alright so I'm doing a 180 on the sex front... shall I damage his gaming chair? Just kidding! I couldn't do that.
> 
> ...


My point is, if you carry on business as usual; he is going to assume everything is business as usual. 

In a man's eyes if a woman is under the same roof with him and having sex with him - then everything is hunky dory.

Women notice when someone folds socks differently and they wonder what the real meaning behind that is.

Men will just keep digging through the pile to see if they can find two socks that look somewhat the same and that aren't crusty. 

Chances are he hasn't even noticed that you stopped cooking as long as there is some ice cream in the freezer to get him by for the night. 

My suggestion goes beyond sex and the bedroom.

My suggestion is consult a divorce attorney and actually start making a divorce plan and start looking for a new place to live and start packing and moving boxes and draw up papers.

If your H wakes up and starts moving heaven and earth to transform himself into someone else, you can do with that whatever you see fit.

If he keeps sitting in front of the video games and seems cool with it - then you know where you stand and you can keep moving on.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So one thing is have you made it plain to this man that you are near your braking point and are ready to divorce? If not you need to, in my mind that is pretty much a requirement because of your marriage vows. He needs a chance to change, if you don't give him that chance you are not being a good spouse. It's unfortunate that that is what it takes to get some people to change but it seems to be the case for lots and lots of people. Like I said on your other post, maybe he doesn't have it in him but maybe there are some other things stopping him and he can get help.

Now if he doesn't however and you pull the plug then moving forward then it seems quite clear that you need a man who is emotionally intelligent but also communicative. That's not the easiest to find and especially at your age but they are out there. Still it's a fine line, you don't want someone who is too emotional. Also the kids question should come up early in the discussion. 

One thing I can say is don't look for perfect look for character. You need someone who has the character to be faithful but even that is not enough. They have to have enough so that when you tell them you are starving and it is their responsibility to help nourish you, that they work to do that even if it is not in their nature. Unfortunately right now it doesn't seem like you current husband has that character. A lot of marriage is really working against your selfish nature and doing what is necessary for the greater good of the marriage. In a lot of ways your post is similar to the posts by spouses whose partners have abandoned them physically. Your primary focus in marriage needs to be what do I need to do to help my spouse have a fulfilling life. If both partners do that, it works. In your case, seems like your husband isn't doing that. That is not a good sign because if you love someone why would you not. Or at least say I don't know how. That may be it, but if it is have him come on here maybe we can help him. 

One caution I would add to this though, there is a danger is expecting ones spouse to be the only source of emotional nourishment. That is a task just too big for one person to provide. There will be times even in the best relationships with the deepest person where just the distractions of life will be enough to cause distance. For instance having kids does this, you both need to be big enough to work through that. This is why you have friends, preferably girlfriends in your case to also provide some of that nourishment. If you want to have a successful marriage you need to be a well rounded person. All you joy and happiness can't come from one relationship. It's not possible.

Anyway I know you are sad but you are SO YOUNG. Better to get this now then 20 years later.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

How do you CHOOSE to leave someone you love?

That's a good question.
Wish I knew. I'm kind of in the same situation as far as that question. 

I do wish you the best.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You can't fix lazy. He is who he is.

Your delima will end when you make it so.

The only one that can keep you where you are is you


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## JBTX (May 4, 2017)

My mother went through this early in her marriage with my dad. She married my father when she was 25ish and he was in his early 30s. My father was adamant that he would never have children. EVER. No changing his mind. I think it may have been because he grew up in a extremely poor and dysfunctional household and he was scared about trying to raise children and also provide for them financially. Also he had a lot of hobbies and such that he didn’t want to put on hold or give up. My mother was very sad and frustrated during this period as she desperately wanted to have children. It took about 6 years and then my father started come around and maybe wanting to have children. When he was 40 years old and my mom was 32, they had me. In retrospect my mother was happy that they waited a little longer to have children. They were better prepared. It worked out even though my dad is extremely difficult. They got through it both made compromises to make it work. 

We men have a Clock about reproduction too. I’m not sure how biological it is in comparison to a woman’s Clock. But every man looks at himself at some point and thinks “if I want to have children and/or more children, I need to get busy”. I did that when my ex-wife was eager to have our second child. I also came around when at first I very opposed to it and changed my mind.

I understand there are other factors involved in your situation too. But children really seems to be the big one.

Maybe he really needs a chance to grow and change his mind about starting a family. It’s big deal and it’s scary for a man. 

I just wanted to share some stories about the people that I love that had similar situation.

I hope the best for you!


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