# I cheated a decade ago and we're still stuck



## timcarp1964

Hi browsing around this site, I am not sure I will get a warm welcome but here goes. I have struggled with porn/sexual issues since I was an 8 yr old boy. Got married in mid 20s thinking marriage would fix my sexual brokenness. It didn't. In fact, it made it worse. 3 weeks into marriage my wife criticized me in a way that hurt deeply, but I did what my family always did - I stuffed it and tried to forget it. 

Oh I did one more thing, I criticized my wife back in an unrelated area that deeply hurt her. I apologized, but it the hurtful words were out there. I was messed up. Of course my hurt didn't disappear, it continued to build, affecting our physical intimacy. My porn issues escalated and I started chatting with others inappropriately when the internet came along in the mid 90s. I started sharing intimate details with others and meeting some for lunch, drinks. Of course this eventually led to a handful of physical relationships. My world turned over on Jan 6, 2008 when my wife intercepted an email from a woman I was planning to meet again. I of course did the honorable thing and told her all that was going on. Ok, that's a lie. I had gotten good at hiding and lying and thought I could continue.

My wife (very tech non-savvy) though became good at digging and found a lot of what was going on. I minimized, lied, and trying to deflect for the next 18 months. We separated on Feb 2009 for 5 months and this was a time for us to work on ourselves. I had 2 disclosures but never came clean on everything. I got involved with a ministry that helps men struggling with these issues. I started counseling to help get to the root issues which were deep and numerous. 

I got in a really good place during that separation; however 3 days into the separation I had sex with a woman and my wife made it very clear our marriage would be over if I did that. I was determined to bury that. 

Fast forward to Dec 2009 when we are enjoying a great relationship for the first time ever after a vow renewal in Oct, God takes a sound sleeper in me and keeps me awake for 3 nights as I kept hearing the message: You need to tell your wife EVERYTHING. Uggh, on the 3rd night I succumbed. In the presence of our counselor I confessed that I had sex during our separation and that I had a 10 year duration of acting out emotionally and physically with others. Our marriage seemed done then, but eventually we said we would work on it.

I have continued to work on my issues over the last decade. I still go to group to let other men know whats going on. I am still challenged to show empathy when my wife expresses her hurt, which is still pretty often. But let me wrap up a long story. 

It's my experience that couples who both own their stuff make it, and those who don't really struggle. My wife has a lot of trouble seeing her stuff. I don't point it out until her stuff becomes criticizing me again, which is probably bad time for me to chime in. I recently listened to an audio book: No more Mr Nice Guy. Not sure if any of you have read but it's really good and definitely described the way I have lived. PS: Nice guys aren't nice at all... I have learned to be more direct. I have voraciously devoured hundreds of books on the subject of sexual addiction. My wife doesn't work, doesn't keep house well either, we moved a year ago and she still has so many boxes in the 3 car garage we can't get one car in, she has put on a lot of weight over the last 5 years. We haven't had sex in 18 months and I have slept in a separate bedroom for the last 5 months after I told her I am not sure we can make it. We are very disconnected. She won't get a divorce, and as a Christian I don't believe I had the permission to get one. She hasn't been unfaithful to me. I am the unfaithful one.

Does anyone here have a success story coming out of infidelity?


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## MattMatt

And what does your wife want?

I detect some minimisation here. You seem to be trying, at one level, to blame your wife for your cheating. Even though you claim your porn problems started when you were eight.


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## 3Xnocharm

You two need to divorce. Pretty sure infidelity is a divorceable offense for Christians. Even if its not, you need to do it anyway. I cannot believe that woman is still with you after all this, she has deeper issues than religion, clearly.


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## personofinterest

Nothing will change until you humbly take responsibility for YOUR choices. You have yet to do that.


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## SadSamIAm

I don't understand the replies the OP is getting.

Unless he is lying. He has changed his ways. Hasn't cheated for 10 years. Still goes to group sessions.

The only thing I see that might cause the replies is that he mentioned that his wife has some issues as well. Which I am sure she does as do all of us. I didn't hear him blaming his wife for his cheating.


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## threelittlestars

SadSamIAm said:


> I don't understand the replies the OP is getting.
> 
> Unless he is lying. He has changed his ways. Hasn't cheated for 10 years. Still goes to group sessions.
> 
> The only thing I see that might cause the replies is that he mentioned that his wife has some issues as well. Which I am sure she does as do all of us. I didn't hear him blaming his wife for his cheating.


Stopping cheating is only a SLIVER of what needs to be done to get to the bottom and OVER cheating.


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## Diana7

It sounds as if your wife has been broken by the years of your lies, cheating and deception. Not surprising really. Most people would be.


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## ConanHub

If someone chooses to stay with a former wayward, they have to commit to the marriage 100%.

Since you were the wayward, you had to have had most of the heavy lifting to restore your marriage. With that being said, she needs to accept her position as your wife if she didn't divorce you.

She needs to get in shape, become a better housekeeper and a improve 1000% in the bedroom.

If what you did is more than she is willing to accept and forgive, or if she is just a lazy mate or a combination, then she needs to grow up and be honest enough to cut the ties.

You aren't bound if she will not commit either.

If she won't engage in your marriage, including sexual fulfillment, then you can cut her loose as well.


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## Cynthia

Your wife should be in individual counseling until she has resolved her pain. You should probably be in marriage counseling together as well. Your wife has some deep hurts that she has not worked through. Neither of you can be happily married in this condition.


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## sokillme

timcarp1964 said:


> Hi browsing around this site, I am not sure I will get a warm welcome but here goes. I have struggled with porn/sexual issues since I was an 8 yr old boy. Got married in mid 20s thinking marriage would fix my sexual brokenness. It didn't. In fact, it made it worse. 3 weeks into marriage my wife criticized me in a way that hurt deeply, but I did what my family always did - I stuffed it and tried to forget it.
> 
> Oh I did one more thing, I criticized my wife back in an unrelated area that deeply hurt her. I apologized, but it the hurtful words were out there. I was messed up. Of course my hurt didn't disappear, it continued to build, affecting our physical intimacy. My porn issues escalated and I started chatting with others inappropriately when the internet came along in the mid 90s. I started sharing intimate details with others and meeting some for lunch, drinks. Of course this eventually led to a handful of physical relationships. My world turned over on Jan 6, 2008 when my wife intercepted an email from a woman I was planning to meet again. I of course did the honorable thing and told her all that was going on. Ok, that's a lie. I had gotten good at hiding and lying and thought I could continue.
> 
> My wife (very tech non-savvy) though became good at digging and found a lot of what was going on. I minimized, lied, and trying to deflect for the next 18 months. We separated on Feb 2009 for 5 months and this was a time for us to work on ourselves. I had 2 disclosures but never came clean on everything. I got involved with a ministry that helps men struggling with these issues. I started counseling to help get to the root issues which were deep and numerous.
> 
> I got in a really good place during that separation; however 3 days into the separation I had sex with a woman and my wife made it very clear our marriage would be over if I did that. I was determined to bury that.
> 
> Fast forward to Dec 2009 when we are enjoying a great relationship for the first time ever after a vow renewal in Oct, God takes a sound sleeper in me and keeps me awake for 3 nights as I kept hearing the message: You need to tell your wife EVERYTHING. Uggh, on the 3rd night I succumbed. In the presence of our counselor I confessed that I had sex during our separation and that I had a 10 year duration of acting out emotionally and physically with others. Our marriage seemed done then, but eventually we said we would work on it.
> 
> I have continued to work on my issues over the last decade. I still go to group to let other men know whats going on. I am still challenged to show empathy when my wife expresses her hurt, which is still pretty often. But let me wrap up a long story.
> 
> It's my experience that couples who both own their stuff make it, and those who don't really struggle. My wife has a lot of trouble seeing her stuff. I don't point it out until her stuff becomes criticizing me again, which is probably bad time for me to chime in. I recently listened to an audio book: No more Mr Nice Guy. Not sure if any of you have read but it's really good and definitely described the way I have lived. PS: Nice guys aren't nice at all... I have learned to be more direct. I have voraciously devoured hundreds of books on the subject of sexual addiction. My wife doesn't work, doesn't keep house well either, we moved a year ago and she still has so many boxes in the 3 car garage we can't get one car in, she has put on a lot of weight over the last 5 years. We haven't had sex in 18 months and I have slept in a separate bedroom for the last 5 months after I told her I am not sure we can make it. We are very disconnected. She won't get a divorce, and as a Christian I don't believe I had the permission to get one. She hasn't been unfaithful to me. I am the unfaithful one.
> 
> Does anyone here have a success story coming out of infidelity?


Honestly dude, it sounds like you have been horribly cruel to your wife. I know I am like Darth Vader around here and I am not saying this to be mean to you but if she was on here what do you think we would say to her? Let's say all this abuse you heaped on her was physical and not mental and emotional like it's been, would you think it would be a good idea for this women to stay with you? What would the possibilities of having a good relationship would be? 

Would a loving God continue to send her back to someone who has lied to her for almost the entirety of her marriage?

I mean you are complaining that she is over weight and a hoarder but you ever think her inability to ever have any control in her emotional life has contributed to that. I mean you were always pulling the rug out from under her. I mean you want to have intimacy with you and I am sure when you first started she wanted that too but then you broke that bond over and over, even when she took you back the first time. She showed you tremendous grace at that point but you've never earned it. How about you show her some. 

Your problem wasn't coming clean like you seem to be saying, it was waiting until you won her back, you should have told her from the get go. 

I mean you are supposedly in church helping people with the same addiction as you and you sleep with someone else?

Sometimes the damage is just too great. Your wife was your treasure and you treated her like an old coke can. 

I feel like I wish I could talk to your wife, boy has the church let her down. Sexual immortality is a valid reason for divorce, google it.

Look again I am not pulling punches but dude! Like get it. She could have had a much better life without you. GET IT! Go tell her you know that and your sorry. GET IT! Read the Bible about what your role is as her husband, it's so that she has a great life! How are you going to make that up to her. Do that first and maybe she will show you mercy and start to try again. shesh. 

Besides that I don't know what to tell you.


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## timcarp1964

You are right. Stopping any addictive behavior is only the tip of the iceberg. I have done a lot of work. Like I mentioned I still go to group every week. I have men who truly know everything about me. I never ever had that before. I meditate and pray daily over my shortcomings. I still go to counseling to deal with my stuff. I am not blaming my wife for my infidelity. That was my choice and I have apologized many times and made amends. I know you can never make enough amends for that breach. I still have issues that I am well aware as I am not the most empathetic person. My wife has her issues.

My question remains though. Who has gone through something like this, worked hard to have a better marriage, and actually emerged successful? Is it possible? I am losing hope.


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## timcarp1964

Hey I can't take exception with much of what you say. My wife will not divorce me. Why? Probably financial security and probably also the shame of divorce itself. Just for the record, Darth (your words not mine) I have worked my ass off over the last decade to make my marriage better. I have come to the end and I seeking encouragement if I should hang in there. I do appreciate your candor, but you assume more than you should.
I just recently told my wife I can't stand to see her live in the misery she has been in. I do care for her and I want her to be happy. I really do. She sent me a text saying she will not pursue divorce. If I want it, I need to do it. 
BTW, for a couple of you who have responded about what the Bible says about divorce. If you strictly follow Biblical mandates, immorality is not a reason for divorce if you are the offender only if you are the victim. When I divorce and pursue another then I make the other person an adulterer. I want to do what's right.
Also, before you are too hard on the church. The church did host a women's group to help them deal with this in a non judgmental environment. Ironically every other woman in my wife's group was divorced within 2 years.


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## She'sStillGotIt

timcarp1964 said:


> Just for the record, Darth (your words not mine) I have worked my ass off over the last decade to make my marriage better.


But this begs the question, exactly how _*much*_ abuse can you continually heap on one person's head and no matter how much 'work' you've done to improve yourself, the damage has just been *too great*? There are too many people out there who think years of this abusive behavior can somehow magically be overcome and dealt with if *only* the cheater does all kinds of 'work' on themselves and emerges a better human being for it.

*Not* true.

You could become a Saint tomorrow and turn water into wine and quite honestly, that wouldn't make a BEAN of difference to your wife. The damage has been done. And yes, she's obviously still there because she can't support herself.

I think for you, it's a case of too much, too little, too late.


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## Cynthia

timcarp1964 said:


> If you strictly follow Biblical mandates, immorality is not a reason for divorce if you are the offender only if you are the victim. When I divorce and pursue another then I make the other person an adulterer. I want to do what's right.


I believe you're correct on this. As difficult as it is.

Again, your wife needs to be in therapy.

If she doesn't deal with this and if she can't tell you what she needs from you to move forward, your marriage will always be like this and likely she will sink deeper into misery.

My recommendation is that you pray for her healing daily and that you ask the Lord what you can do to help her, not for your marriage, but for her, because you love her. If you don't love her anymore, then pray and ask the Lord to put love for her back in your heart. When you have negative thoughts about her, stop, replace them with positive thoughts about your wife. Think about what is good about her. If you can't find anything, again, ask God. He knows and he will tell you.

I recommend that you pour your whole self into your wife and your marriage without expecting anything in return. Repay her for all that you stole from her. You may think you understand what you did to her, but I seriously doubt it. You broke her heart, perhaps irreparably. You owe her your life, because you pretty much stole hers. Make it your mission to comfort and soothe her every day of your life.

edit to add: Your wife may never recover, but if you divorce her, the chances are even lower that she will. I think you broke her. I understand that you can't fix her, but you can do everything in your power to be a blessing to her every single day and tell her how valuable and precious she is. But don't do it for two weeks and give up. This is a lifetime.


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## Cynthia

You said you've made amends to your wife. Please explain exactly what you've done to make amends.


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## ConanHub

timcarp1964 said:


> Hey I can't take exception with much of what you say. My wife will not divorce me. Why? Probably financial security and probably also the shame of divorce itself. Just for the record, Darth (your words not mine) I have worked my ass off over the last decade to make my marriage better. I have come to the end and I seeking encouragement if I should hang in there. I do appreciate your candor, but you assume more than you should.
> I just recently told my wife I can't stand to see her live in the misery she has been in. I do care for her and I want her to be happy. I really do. She sent me a text saying she will not pursue divorce. If I want it, I need to do it.
> BTW, for a couple of you who have responded about what the Bible says about divorce. If you strictly follow Biblical mandates, immorality is not a reason for divorce if you are the offender only if you are the victim. When I divorce and pursue another then I make the other person an adulterer. I want to do what's right.
> Also, before you are too hard on the church. The church did host a women's group to help them deal with this in a non judgmental environment. Ironically every other woman in my wife's group was divorced within 2 years.


If she won't have a sexual relationship with you, that is grounds.


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## Cynthia

ConanHub said:


> If she won't have a sexual relationship with you, that is grounds.


That may be true, but he is the one who broke her. I think leaving her may obliterate her. I think he needs to insist that she get help and that he throw himself into doing whatever he can to help her. From what I've read here, it seems that he's done everything he can to resolve his issues, but he hasn't said a word about what he's done to bring healing to his wife.


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## ConanHub

CynthiaDe said:


> That may be true, but he is the one who broke her. I think leaving her may obliterate her. I think he needs to insist that she get help and that he throw himself into doing whatever he can to help her. From what I've read here, it seems that he's done everything he can to resolve his issues, but he hasn't said a word about what he's done to bring healing to his wife.


That is a fair point. I'm uncertain about when her laziness started however.

She absolutely could be suffering from depression brought on by his earlier behavior.

She does need to realize that she can't be a non participant and still have a marriage.

I would be much harder on a betrayed husband in the same situation.

She certainly needs help but if she refused to become healthy, OP cannot make her.


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## timcarp1964

CynthiaDe said:


> You said you've made amends to your wife. Please explain exactly what you've done to make amends.


It's pretty extensive but for 8 years after the last disclosure, I served her like no other. I have apologized profusely throughout the years. I have given her my undivided attention as her love language is quality time. I have led us in Bible studies and prayer. We have had ceremonies to mark starting over. I have showered love and gifts including expensive cars, anniversary rings, and dogs which she dearly loves. I even let her pick out a house 6 months ago that was 2x the price and size that I would have picked. Little has changed. She says she deserves these things for what I did. I can't refute that but as an engineer that logic defies my thinking. I am tired now after doing it for this long and little has changed. I have worked a lot on me. I am not the same person who cheated on her. If so, I would be cheating again and I'm not. I well know the pain of that for both of us.

Lack of physical intimacy is not Biblical grounds for divorce BTW.


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## Cynthia

timcarp1964 said:


> Lack of physical intimacy is not Biblical grounds for divorce BTW.


What is and is not biblical grounds for divorce is a debatable topic. I believe that the Bible lists desertion as grounds. Your wife has deserted the marriage if she is refusing to have sex with you. She is able bodied. She has a choice. She is choosing not to.

It seems to me that you have set no boundaries of what you expect from the marriage, after having apparently done everything you possibly could to resolve the issues. Have you been in marriage counseling? Has you wife been in therapy?

One person cannot make the marriage happy. It takes two working together. If you don't have that, you will not have a happy marriage.


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## personofinterest

So...transparency?

Do you have unsupervised internet time? Does she have all your passwords? Do you have a fool-proof accountability method? Do you spend ANY time with members of the opposite sex? Do you have opposite sex friends? Do you spend undivided time together? Do you have something like a net nanny on your devices?

It sounds like you've been nice, romantic, and bought her stuff. But what she NEEDS is to feel SAFE with you.

What have you done about THAT?

No offense, but I would not be impressed if my cheating, porn-addicted husband taught me a Bible study.


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## OnTheFly

Hey Tim,

I assume both you and your wife are Christians, yes?

There's a saying that floats around Christian circles....''those who are forgiven, forgive.''

I think the meaning is clear, but to elaborate for others, maybe, it means, God has forgiven people for their grievous sins against a thrice Holy God, on the basis of Jesus' atoning work on the cross and subsequent resurrection. When we came to faith, our slate was wiped clean, so much so, that one day when we die we will be in the presence of the triune God. Then, we are told, to turn around and be like Jesus. How so? We forgive others as Christ has forgiven us. If you meditate on this simple good news, very soon the profundity reaches you.

So, I ask. Have you asked for forgiveness from her for your betrayal/sin in sincerity? If so, has she accepted? (The reciprocal could also be asked, of course, as no one is without sin, but one thing at a time).

If the answers are yes and yes, and the situation is as it is, then there are bigger spiritual problems in the home. 

(And before anyone accuses me of whitewashing the adultery, of course, the consequences will be felt for however long, but there can be no renewal of the marriage bonds if only one person is on board).

Also, I applaud your stance of leading in Bible study and prayer, it is the mandate for all Christian husbands and fathers, even as flawed as we are.


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## BluesPower

timcarp1964 said:


> Hey I can't take exception with much of what you say. My wife will not divorce me. Why? Probably financial security and probably also the shame of divorce itself. Just for the record, Darth (your words not mine) I have worked my ass off over the last decade to make my marriage better. I have come to the end and I seeking encouragement if I should hang in there. I do appreciate your candor, but you assume more than you should.
> I just recently told my wife I can't stand to see her live in the misery she has been in. I do care for her and I want her to be happy. I really do. She sent me a text saying she will not pursue divorce. If I want it, I need to do it.
> BTW, for a couple of you who have responded about what the Bible says about divorce. If you strictly follow Biblical mandates, immorality is not a reason for divorce if you are the offender only if you are the victim. When I divorce and pursue another then I make the other person an adulterer. I want to do what's right.
> Also, before you are too hard on the church. The church did host a women's group to help them deal with this in a non judgmental environment. Ironically every other woman in my wife's group was divorced within 2 years.


This is kind of a hard one. Now to @timcarp1964, and I mean this in the best way possible, try not to break your arm patting yourself on the back. And, know that I am not saying that just to break your balls.

I get that you have done a lot of work to get yourself together, I get it, it is admirable in lots of way. It really is. 

But here is the deal you cheated, really badly, "Trickle trothed", and on and on. What I am saying is your case was really bad, and you need to understand that. 

So it is possible that you have broken your wife, and the question then would be, can you help her to get better if she does not really want to? (I kind of think the answer is no, BTW)

From an infidelity/marriage rebuilding point of view, it takes two... Two people that want the marriage to work, two people that want to do the work, and work through the problems, otherwise, it will fail. 

So you have done your work and gotten yourself together, cool. Now your wife may be too broken, two depressed, or whatever, so she had not done the work. 

And frankly, she may want a divorce but does not want to be the bad guy. 

If you cannot get her on the marriage team, your choices are limited. 

They are: 

1) Live in a sexless marriage, with a wife that probably does not love you. And even if she does, she may not be able to do the work necessary to recover from all of it???? 

2) Divorce, with all the negative connotations from that in the church. And start a new life and be a better person in that one. 

Now, if the legalistic aspects of the divorce possibility are what is holding you up, then many scholars submit that shunning the marital bedroom are grounds for divorce. And please don't try and debate me on it, I am not saying that it is right or wrong, I am just say some biblical scholars feel that way. 

If you love your wife, I don't think that redoubling your efforts to talk to her, get her into some type of counseling or possibly to a medical doctor to deal with the depression... I think really working on these angles COULD help, but at the same time, you can only lead a horse to water... 

I think that at some point you have to ask yourself if you can live like you are living for the rest of your live, without love and sex? 

So how do you feel about that possibility, no real love, and no sex to speak of for the rest of your life?


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## sokillme

timcarp1964 said:


> It's pretty extensive but for 8 years after the last disclosure, I served her like no other. I have apologized profusely throughout the years. I have given her my undivided attention as her love language is quality time. I have led us in Bible studies and prayer. We have had ceremonies to mark starting over. I have showered love and gifts including expensive cars, anniversary rings, and dogs which she dearly loves. I even let her pick out a house 6 months ago that was 2x the price and size that I would have picked. Little has changed. She says she deserves these things for what I did. I can't refute that but as an engineer that logic defies my thinking. I am tired now after doing it for this long and little has changed. I have worked a lot on me. I am not the same person who cheated on her. If so, I would be cheating again and I'm not. I well know the pain of that for both of us.
> 
> Lack of physical intimacy is not Biblical grounds for divorce BTW.


I see you have done a lot of material things and gifts and such. My question is what have you don't to rebuild emotional intimacy? What have you done to make her feel safe? What have you don't to make her feel cherished?

Everyone can say I love you, but you need to say I love you and this is why. I ****ed up and this is where. I get what you are feeling and please let me help you.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

timcarp1964 said:


> CynthiaDe said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said you've made amends to your wife. Please explain exactly what you've done to make amends.
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty extensive but for 8 years after the last disclosure, I served her like no other. I have apologized profusely throughout the years. I have given her my undivided attention as her love language is quality time. I have led us in Bible studies and prayer. We have had ceremonies to mark starting over. I have showered love and gifts including expensive cars, anniversary rings, and dogs which she dearly loves. I even let her pick out a house 6 months ago that was 2x the price and size that I would have picked. Little has changed. She says she deserves these things for what I did. I can't refute that but as an engineer that logic defies my thinking. I am tired now after doing it for this long and little has changed. I have worked a lot on me. I am not the same person who cheated on her. If so, I would be cheating again and I'm not. I well know the pain of that for both of us.
> 
> Lack of physical intimacy is not Biblical grounds for divorce BTW.
Click to expand...

The way I understand it is that you can divorce her, you just can't marry another after according to Moses, since she hasn't committed sexual immorality.


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## timcarp1964

personofinterest said:


> So...transparency?
> 
> Do you have unsupervised internet time? Does she have all your passwords? Do you have a fool-proof accountability method? Do you spend ANY time with members of the opposite sex? Do you have opposite sex friends? Do you spend undivided time together? Do you have something like a net nanny on your devices?
> 
> It sounds like you've been nice, romantic, and bought her stuff. But what she NEEDS is to feel SAFE with you.
> 
> What have you done about THAT?
> 
> No offense, but I would not be impressed if my cheating, porn-addicted husband taught me a Bible study.


I am COMPLETELY known. I have covenant eyes installed on all my devices (few as they are), my phone and work laptop. Yes, I have accountability software installed on my work laptop. My wife and 3 other friends in recovery (who my wife knows) get my reports. If I have to spend time with opposite sex, my wife is aware of it. It doesn't happen often, but I do have female suppliers who I occasionally meet with. My wife has access to my whereabouts on our iphones and life360 in addition. If I deviate from the normal schedule, I tell her.
I don't teach her a Bible study. We do it together. No offense taken. To each his/her own...


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## ConanHub

timcarp1964 said:


> It's pretty extensive but for 8 years after the last disclosure, I served her like no other. I have apologized profusely throughout the years. I have given her my undivided attention as her love language is quality time. I have led us in Bible studies and prayer. We have had ceremonies to mark starting over. I have showered love and gifts including expensive cars, anniversary rings, and dogs which she dearly loves. I even let her pick out a house 6 months ago that was 2x the price and size that I would have picked. Little has changed. She says she deserves these things for what I did. I can't refute that but as an engineer that logic defies my thinking. I am tired now after doing it for this long and little has changed. I have worked a lot on me. I am not the same person who cheated on her. If so, I would be cheating again and I'm not. I well know the pain of that for both of us.
> 
> Lack of physical intimacy is not Biblical grounds for divorce BTW.


Actually it is. I have been involved in ministry for a long time and if a husband or wife refuses to have sex it is absolutely grounds.

It might not be your personal line in the sand. You don't have to divorce anyone for anything.

You can biblically divorce for a spouse who refuses sex.

Your wife does not deserve payment in the form of whatever she wants as far as material possessions go.

You are still required to be a husband and make good decisions.

Being a paycheck genie for her is not being the partner she needs.

You are doing a lot but being a good spouse doesn't mean giving into your spouse like you are.

You still need a backbone with her to have a healthy relationship.

Your dynamic needs to be healthy regardless of past offenses if you both want a future together.

She can't get to be an entitled fixture that determines what you owe her and hope to have a marriage.

You do not have a marriage right now. It is a total sham.

I am not trying to diminish the work you have done at all.

She is not willing to engage in the marriage. It takes two.

She cannot keep you as her little whipping boy and expect to have a marriage.

She needs to make a grown up decision about wether she wants to keep punishing you and herself as a side effect, or build a marriage with you.


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## sokillme

@timcarp1964 what do you think your wife thinks when she things about your life together?

What where her dreams?

What do you think her feelings about her marriage were before she found this out?

How about now?

What do you think he things about her life in general?


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## Cynthia

You have to show that you have a backbone and that your wife can trust you to do the right thing. If you bought a house that was too much for you, that is not showing your wife that you are trustworthy. It shows that you placate, which is the opposite of what your wife needs.

You are being weak, when your wife needs you to be strong. Likely not only is her heart still broken and she doesn’t trust you, but she lost attraction for you and isn’t in love with you anymore.

It seems that your approach to reconciliation has been somewhat groveling, but that doesn’t actually work. Rebuilding a marriage requires you to show strength and to be the man that you promised you would be. You build her up without tearing yourself down. You build up the marriage by building both of your lives. You can’t come from the position of one person being better than the other. That makes you look like a lesser man, which will never reignite your wife’s attraction for you.

If a marriage is going to work, it has to be good for both partners and right now it doesn’t look like your marriage is good for either of you. You two need to engage with each other as equals, but you need to engage as a married couple. Right now you aren’t doing that. You are still in the proverbial dog house after ten years. Why didn’t she divorce you? In agreeing to reconciliation, that means she forgives you and you work together to rebuild what was broken. You cannot build a marriage by yourself. It takes two.

I think it’s time for some hard talks and for you to make a plan on what is going to happen. You need to stand up and lead this situation, not because you are the husband, but because you are the one who caused the damage in the first place. I think what your wife needs is for you to pursue her as a man of value rather than continuing to try to make up for what you did. And you need to make it clear to her that you have expectations that the two of you are going to work through this together and are going to make your marriage vibrant and healthy. If she’s in, great. If not, then it’s time for divorce.

The first thing I would do it tell her to set up individual therapy and for the two of you to set up marriage counseling. Start reading books on marriage and learning how to engage each other in a positive manner. She doesn’t have to start having sex right now, but that should be a goal to have a healthy sex life. If she can’t do any of this, then the marriage needs to end.

I’m not talking about demanding. I’m talking about having an honest conversation that you are not going to wear a scarlet letter for the rest of your life and suffer for your sins. You are going to stand up and take back what the devil stole and to walk in power, love, and sound mind. That’s what needs to happen here, otherwise both of you are going to be miserable for the rest of your lives.


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