# Some difficult questions - any ideas please?



## inquiry (Sep 24, 2012)

My wife and I have reached a meltdown - this is not my first post but the end of many months of anguish.

This is what she says;

I have been deeply unhappy for far too long. It will never improve. I have not arrived at this point lightly, believe me. If it were it not for the kids, I would have left years ago.

I will agree to stay for a further 12 months but in all honesty my decision to want a separation was made earlier this year. I thought I could stick it out for the kids but I can't.

At worst, it will enable us to finish the house and maximize its sale and for me to become more financially independent. 

I do not agree with you that love can be rekindled and I simply do not love you anymore.

My question to everyone is this;

Am I wrong to continue. 12 months is a long time - I love this woman and want o fight for her. I don't want to walk away. She says 'at worst' ... does this give reason for hope?

Lots of questions - can anyone help.


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

i think that is a question only you can answer, will you be relatively happy and civil living together with her during that period of time?

12 months is a long time if you are at each others throats every day, if you can be civil during that time, then thats a different story


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

What do you see in her message to you that indicates she still has some fight in her? I'm curious to your answer.

I take her at worst to mean that it's going to be a long drawn out process she's not looking forward to. She wants it to be done quickly (so she can leave).


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## inquiry (Sep 24, 2012)

I see it as 12 months to win her back. We're not at each others throats but she has checked out and that is even more hurtful and I'm having to find every ounce of strength I have to try and make it work.

At worst... This is how i read it.

What she is describing is the worst outcome that come happen from the 12 months staying together. That being finish house etc. Therefore my view is that there there must be a best outcome. That gives me hope. 

Does this make any sense?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Is she still having an affair with that guy she was calling and texting everyday? Is she still hanging out with all her toxic friends who are having affairs?

If the answer is anything other than "absolutely not" you're just wasting your time.

Did you ever get your testosterone checked?


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## inquiry (Sep 24, 2012)

They seemed to have stopped. Hard to say about who she sees in the day time. Yes, I did get my testosterone checked I'm fine. I am seeing a therapist to help me re-build self esteem. MC - went to 2 sessions together and stopped. 3 weeks ago she wrote a very positive note about wanting to give it a go but now this.

As I have said though, I'm simply not willing to give up on her. I know she thinks that love can't be rekindled but I think it can. Am I a fool - I just don't know.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

inquiry said:


> I see it as 12 months to win her back. We're not at each others throats but she has checked out and that is even more hurtful and I'm having to find every ounce of strength I have to try and make it work.
> 
> At worst... This is how i read it.
> 
> ...


No, it doesn't make sense. The 12 months isn't about 'staying together' it's about getting the house ready to be sold. It's not a timeline for you to work extra hard to win her back, but a time frame for her to save money, get her ducks in a row and sell the marital home.

It's the war of the roses question. How do you make someone stay that doesn't want to stay, and how do you make someone leave that doesn't want to leave? You know how that story ended.


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## inquiry (Sep 24, 2012)

I hear what you are saying but I'm hoping that decisions are never finite. Don't people fall in and out of love in relationships, is it really too late.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

inquiry said:


> They seemed to have stopped. Hard to say about who she sees in the day time. Yes, I did get my testosterone checked I'm fine. I am seeing a therapist to help me re-build self esteem. MC - went to 2 sessions together and stopped. 3 weeks ago she wrote a very positive note about wanting to give it a go but now this.
> 
> As I have said though, I'm simply not willing to give up on her. I know she thinks that love can't be rekindled but I think it can. Am I a fool - I just don't know.


If you love her so much, consider giving her what she asks for.


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## inquiry (Sep 24, 2012)

That's an easy thing to say, don't know how to answer that to be honest


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

TAG has the right idea. Give her what she wants.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

If you do stay for the 12 months, spend that time working on YOU. You are the only one that you can change. Make yourself a better person for someone else, not your wife who has already choosen to discard you


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

As my brother recently put it to someone "sometimes the most solid proof of love is granting them their wish to be left alone"


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

inquiry said:


> They seemed to have stopped. Hard to say about who she sees in the day time. Yes, I did get my testosterone checked I'm fine. I am seeing a therapist to help me re-build self esteem. MC - went to 2 sessions together and stopped. 3 weeks ago she wrote a very positive note about wanting to give it a go but now this.
> 
> As I have said though, I'm simply not willing to give up on her. I know she thinks that love can't be rekindled but I think it can. Am I a fool - I just don't know.


She's either having an affair or she's having affairs. If you're not going to go back to doing intel ops, you need to go ahead and file. You should also out her friends, for good measure. They're probably the ones who encouraged her.

What was your T number? age? Are you bodybuilding?


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## inquiry (Sep 24, 2012)

It was 250 something. I'm 49. Not a body builder.
Do you all believe that she cannot be turned, that once someone makes this decision it is finite? I find that hard to understand - but I'm probably not being very rationale I know.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

inquiry said:


> It was 250 something. I'm 49. Not a body builder.
> Do you all believe that she cannot be turned, that once someone makes this decision it is finite? I find that hard to understand - but I'm probably not being very rationale I know.


When a woman makes the decision, yes it's usually final. She's given it all the thought she intends to give it and she's done grieving the end. She's ready to move forward.

Some guys after time (years usually) can turn it around and their wife decides to try again... but this isn't typical. Hell I did it myself once. It didn't work out in the end, but I did give it another try after about 18 months.


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## inquiry (Sep 24, 2012)

I've just re-read that last post several times, it hit home pretty hard.

"Give her what she wants makes more sense now"

Feel quite sick and that sinking in ...


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

The greatest gift you can give her is freedom. Love isn't bondage. You're trying to keep her where she doesn't want to be... trying to control her. Let her go.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

What I explained to my wife is that you can stay here and we live as husband and wife or you can leave and do whatever you wish, your choice. If you stay, you have to bang me and me only at least every other night. Otherwise the door is right here. You can leave whenever you want but don't count on being let back in. I hope I see you tonight.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

This really isn't about having time to rebuild for her. She's checked out and, really, you will be wasting your time attempting to get her to change her mind. She's trying to save money and do whatever she needs to in order to move on and you seriously need to do the same for yourself.

The best gift that you can give yourself now is to get yourself ready for the next phase of your life. This one is over and you need to start looking ahead to what you want to do next for yourself. Do whatever you need to in order to raise your self-esteem; work out, going out with friends, finding new hobbies or rekindling old ones, focusing on your kids, etc... This time needs to be about you, not the fantasy life that you will not have with your wife. 

It's really time to let her go and move on. It's going to take work, but the sooner that you get started on the rest of your life, the better off you will be in the end. 12 months is a long time to deal with someone who doesn't want to be there with you. You should see if you can get the house issues settled sooner and start planning your future. She's already started, so you should get moving, also. Best of luck!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

There's not much hope. I'd say, if you stick around begging there's 0% chance. If you dump her immediately and move on with your life there's about a 1% chance. Either way the odds are not good. But you trying to "win her back" will lead to the end in no uncertain terms.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

inquiry said:


> It was 250 something. I'm 49. Not a body builder.


250?! That's just barely within the "normal" range, meaning it might be reasonable if you were in your late 70's. 450 would be like rock bottom at your age. Go find a men's clinic and start getting supplemented.

Start bodybuilding. Get a flat stomach. Start upping your sex rank. Improve your wardrobe. Get a new ride, new haircut. Read MMSL.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

As a wife (ex) who checked out... I can tell you my perspective. I never said "ILYBINILWY". I just backed off the marriage. I had kids to tend to, a teaching job, friends, hobbies, etc ( I never backed off the sex, I actually thought "at least we have this, this has to mean something"... Nope.) ... I quit trying, or at least I only tried minimally. Instead of making plans with him... I'd make plans myself, or with the kids and then invite him (he'd usually decline, he checked out before I did!). But for me, at some point I gave the marriage a year... figure I'd do what I can, but without honest communication and committment to fixing it... we'd see how it plays out. I quit doing his laundry, or getting up to get him something, or fixing him food if he came in after dinner.... I quit caring. And once you quit caring... it just FEELS done. 

I say all that to say.... she is probably done. For whatever reasons. My ex was done... even if I thought he was nuts and had no logical reasons. 

Sooooooooo... now YOU back off. Treat her as a room mate, who happens to be the mother of your child. IF you are going out to get something to eat... ask her if she wants something, but don't make a special trip because that isn't what she wanted. IF you want to go see a movie, ask her if she wants to go, but go see the movie YOU want to see. Do what YOU want, what works for YOU. 

Make your life about YOU and your kids. Invite your W when you want to, but the invitation isn't mandatory. See, my philosophy is "You said you don't want me anymore... so you don't get a say in anything I think, do, or feel. I have to live like how you feel about things doesn't matter. And YOU brought this on." My thoughts were... you (ex) don't get to even ask where I am, where I've been, what I'm thinking, what my plans are, why I did something, etc... ALL of it was off limits. Once he said he was done, he had no claim to ANY part of me.

She doesn't get anymore input... period. It's YOUR life. You have to figure out what that direction is. And for now, it's ok if there is no direction...that happens. BUT, it is to your benefit to start figuring out your own Plan B. Like: What does the house need to get sold? Should I have have a realtor look at it? What are we looking at? Can I do this for a year? (Since the year seems to be only for her benefit.. you don't HAVE to do this) 

See an attorney. See what YOUR options look like. You do not have to share all this with her. You just HAVE to figure out your own stuff...and leave her to stew in hers. She MAY find her way back to you, but if you are a good guy then there is nothing else you should do.... get on with your life, and see where things take you.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

inquiry said:


> Do you all believe that she cannot be turned, that once someone makes this decision it is finite? I find that hard to understand - but I'm probably not being very rationale I know.


About the only way it could be reversed is an ultra-alpha reaction at the first sign of cheating: all her sh!t in black plastic trash bags dumped at OM's house, outing the affair to all her relatives with evidence, outing TFs' affairs to their husbands, a major Alpha sh!t storm. 


It's probably too late, but even now, the prescription is about the same. Get irrefutable evidence and go to town with it and out her and her TFs to one and all, while simultaneously upping your sex rank through the roof. Start going out like you're Casanova, looking good and dressed to the nines. Let her watch the kids. No explanations to her.

Your wife has gone through a long period of devaluing your manhood. When you didn't challenge her over her affairs, you helped in the devaluation. She doesn't think another woman will have you. You've got a very slim theoretical possibility of sparking some interest if you can generate some interest from other females. Women don't want a man no other woman wants, and you wife sees you as a guy no woman would want. Probably too late to change that.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

If there is someone else, she is done.
If you are abusive, she is done.

If there is none of the above, you can still have hope...

but hope is not a plan.


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