# in another failed relationship



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Sorry fo this being a long post, but there is much to this story and i want to put out all the details.

I am in my 40's, was married for over 16 years, 2 sons. my marriage was in a bad place, like many sotries i have read here there are similiarities how we began the tyical downward decline, and loss of communciation. I watched my wife change, toxic friends, shallow and self absorbed behaviors.mayeb i mid life crisis, but just a total decline and change of who she was and the person i though i married.

I coped by working harder, burying myslef in activities. we had disagreements on how are life was turning out. i could no longer realte to my wife and did not like the person she had become. i see now this was my single biggest failure, not forcefully adressing the issues or ending the realtionship. we had a nice life, good jobs, plenty of money, nice home, vactaions etc. all she saw is what we didnt have.

I started a new hobby, learning to fly, something i alwasy wanted to do and had been fasicinated with aircraft my entire life. i wasnt getting any younger and the time just seemed ripe to do it and keep my mind from trouble at home.

during this time of flight training, i met a beautiful and intriging young woman. we hit it off instantly. she asked if i was married as i am 20 years older than her. I told her yes. I told her my marriage was in decline and i didnt see a way out of it. with out a doubt, i was in an emotional afffair. 

it wasnt long and then a bomb went off......i caught my wife in an affiar. it was the worst it could possibly be, full PA, lengthy, and with the husband of her best friend at the time. the tye of people we went on vacations with, knew their children and so forth.

well i looked at my marriage as over from that point. I went full speed ahead with this young woman, i wont go into details, but im sure you can imagine what that means. i went through a brief period of living in my RV, but almost immediately moved in with this woman.

but the pain and stress of my world that i built with my wife was building. I even told this to my GF. I felt horrible that my sons would have a broken home. i felt like everything i worked my whole life for went down the drain. i felt obligated to make it work. friends encouracged me to go back and at least try to salvage my marriage and life. I lost t total respect and love for my wife and didnt really want to, but in the end felt i was obligated to beacuse of my sons.

I really didnt want to loose the GF. I lied to her and began a realtionship again with my wife. I didnt have the strentgh to look her in the eye, break her hart, and tell her what i was doing. i feel tremendous guilt for that. But she caught on quickly and figured it out. 

i moved back home. my hart was never really in it. all i thought about was the girl i hurt. but being home did come to an understanding that i did not love my wife, she was incapapble of being the person i needed her to be. she blame-shifted the affair on to me. this went on for about 8 months. i had reached out to the GF, who now had a boyfriend of her own at the time.

i told my wife that i wanted out. it told her i saw no future for us. i told her i no longer loved her the way i used to. i immediately moved back into my RV.

i tried to patch things up with my GF. I told her how sorry i was, that i made a huge mistake. not long after, she brke up with her BF and we began to re-connect and rekindle.

the love and euphoria began to grow. we had a few bumps in the road though. i was still married, but working towards a negotiated divorce settlement. it drug on and began to build tension between us. distance began to grow and i could sense it. i began to push very hard to get my divorce complete, and in fact did so. this eased things between us considerably as now that chapter if my life was closed. 

fast forward another year or so. my divorce left me pretty much broke. i came out of it with some assets, my 401k, no debt, but very little actual available cash. i began working very hard to recover financially. The GF has a nice apartment, but my goal is to be in a financial position to buy a home by the end of this year. long hours, weekends etc were paying off in that i was making good money and setting this up to happen.

this is when trouble began with my current GF. i again sensed distance between us. she is getting a pretty raw deal at her work, i feel like they are trying to get her to quit and she agrees. they are making her life miserable. she is only one semester away from a colledge degree. i encouraged her to quit, struggle through next semester (and i would help) and she would have plenty of jobs offers having a degree and already 3+ years with a fortune 500 and most of them very successful. i could see the stress getting to her, going out drinking many nights of the week with friends, coworkers and clients. This was putting pressureon us and causing fights. I even caught her, begining to lie to me. l called her on it and she excused it by say she didnt want to casuse a fight and that i had lied "bigger". I told her i was wrong for lying to her and that it doesnt excuse her to do it. 

still the pressure was building. soon i got the "i need space speech"..... i agreed and moved out. i was still tryin gto reach out to her, probably too much so. we went out on a dinner date and it all came to a head late that night. i figured out she was still lying to me, had shared some very personal comminucation between her and i with a her best friend in a very "look how pathetic tone" and i lost it. i was in the iddle of writing her a break up letter while she was sleeping. i felt i couldnt ride this into the ground and drag it out. well she woke up and another fight ensued.

the next day, i finished the letter and outlined about 6 reasons why i felt compelled to permanatly end the realtionship. this brought me no joy, i love this woman, but recognize things simply cant continue the way they were.

the next day, i couldnt sleep, and woke very ealy in the morning. i went to her house to gather the rest of my belongings. a brief fight began, but we both cooled off and confessed that we loved each other, wanted the realtionship to work, and agreed to give it some time and adress the issues.

i wrote to her that i didnt think being seperated was the answer. i told her i believed that if we wanted to adress the issue than we should be actively working on them. i felt like "space" was nothing more than a cooling off period and our issues would be right there when that was over. kind of a rug sweep in a way.

i also wrote to her about how seeing her lie to me had a huge impact on me. it made me feel emotion i have beeen totally out of touch with my entire life. I told her how i really now knew how lousy and slefish it was. and that i wanted to be a better erson to her bacuse of it.

i also wanted her to believe i was not going to go back to my EW when we failed. She always and rightfully so was threatend by my X especially so after i went back home. 

I then wrote my EW and came clean about many things she was in the dark on. how i began in a relationship just bfore i discovered her affair. she somewhat knew, but i layed it all out there. i told her i was trying to turn over a new leaf, be a better person, close that chapter of my life and go on to better things. that the wrong things i did to her i was sorry for but they are now behind me. 

I shared this letter with my GF. my intention was to show her that i was serious about not just the worngs i did to her, but other people in my life as well. she took it the worng way and accused me of trying to reconcile with my EW, when in fact that was not even a remote consideration. i certainely would not have shared it with her if it was! she accused me of simply trying to be vindictive and rub her nose in it..... it really hurt when you try to no do the right and honorable things and its veiwed as anythign but that.

so here i am, tryin gto reach out to my GF and it feels like everything i am doing is simply backfiring and ushing her away even more. im at a loss for what to do.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

The mistake you made was jumping into a relationship while still in your marriage. I think it clouded your best judgement. 

As to advice, I suggest taking a year or two away from dating and get you mojo back. Work and save some money, get in shape both physically and mentally. Get to a place where you feel happy and confident. At that time you can make better decisions.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

X my man, I certainly hope you know more about planes than you do about women. If you don't both you and everybody on the ground is in danger. You decide to "come clean" with your ex, trying to report to her how you're spending ample time kicking yourself around for the marital failures and than decide to blab to your GF everything you’re thinking and feeling about your former wife. Dawg, she ain't to only one thinking you're trying to cozy up to your ex. So do I. Common sense would dictate that your GF would respond to your shenanigan.
Now instead of looking like a hero, trying to impress the women with his visceral/sensitive side, you look like a chump who can't get his life together after his wife quit him. Yep, you've scored two failed relationship. The best thing you can do at this point is back away for awhile and call whichever you consider the love of your life, ask them for a date as if nothing happened. Most likely though, you're in an unrecoverable dive.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Yeah, x598, you're thoroughly and completely doing it wrong.

About the only thing I see right in your post is there at the end, where you sense that all your efforts are having the opposite effect you desire. That part, you got right.

But I'm not here to pound on you- I'm a child of the light, and that means you get free advice on how to improve your situation.

So here's how you do it RIGHT.

First, you get grounded, centered, and squared away. You work on yourself.

You mention some goals you have set, like regaining a financial cushion and getting enough ahead to start getting back into a house. This is where you start. This is where you focus. This is where you re-discover your youth and skip dinners out and drink cheap beer.

When you work towards this goal, you are building up your own value, to yourself (emotionally, intellectually, AND financially), and to others as well, such as young impressionable girlfriends, older more mature-er girlfriends you haven't met yet, and to YOUR KIDS, who may need your help one day.

There is no down side for you in pursuing this goal. And, as it relates to getting back your young honey, well, chicks dig ambitious driven guys. Well, the ones worth having do, anyway.

So. Handle that. 

The next one may seem a little weird.

Get a hobby. Or regain interest in an old, discarded hobby. And I mean genuine, passionate interest. Become an expert on the Avengers, or a breed of dog, a brand of power tools, wine, Harlequin Romance Novels, whatever.

Find something you can care about really a lot that isn't a person.

This serves multiple purposes too.

It occupies some of your time, energy, and focus. This gives you something in life besides the pursuit of woman. And chicks are fascinated by men who are, uh, fascinated by SOME THING. Well, the ones worth having are, anyway.

And you're reading this saying, "gee, that's interesting, NotLikeYou, but how do I repair things with sweet cheeks?

Well, the reason I haven't written that up is that, right now, from what you have written, there just isn't much you can do in the short term to shine in her eyes again.

You screwed up this one from the get-go, by being wishy-washy and deceitful. Chicks are disgusted by wishy-washy deceitful guys. At least the ones worth keeping, anyway.

Right now, any effort on your part to chase her or get her back is going to be viewed as weak and sad, by her. And that's why when you write

"so here I am, trying to reach out to my GF and it feels like everything I am doing is simply backfiring and pushing her away even more. I'm at a loss for what to do,"

you're seeing things clearly.

So your best bet is to stop trying to get her back. Set boundaries and adhere to them. Be honest, and require honesty in return. Don't go out drinking (by yourself) with single people when you're in a relationship. Don't accept your 22-year old girlfriend, reaching her peak attractiveness, going out drinking with a bunch of young single guys.

Do the things you can to make you attractive to YOURSELF. And then enter a relationship from a position of strength and decency.



But wait- act now and you get EVEN MOAR FREE ADVICE, although its kind of nitpicky.

Don't pour your heart out in a letter. Letters are weak and feminine, at least when they're being written by a man to his woman. Manly men, one of which you intend to be, handle matters of the heart face to face, with manners and firmness.

When you're writing posts, or anything else, don't write "i" this and "i" that. Use "I." Not only is it grammatically correct, its how manly men write. You know what kind of guy describes his problems and says "i wrote to her that i didn't think being separated was the answer?"

A guy whose woman has kicked him out! HA! Trick answer!

But seriously, a guy who writes like that is a guy with low self esteem. A gen-zero slacker with a highly developed sense of irony who works as a "Barrista" at Starbucks. That's not the guy you want to be. Use I!

As in, "*I* started to write her a letter, but then thought that doing situps was a better use of my time."

Stop talking about how the pressure was building. You're a man. You handle pressure. And if the pressure gets too great and blows up, well, by God, YOU HANDLE THAT, TOO!

Stop writing to your ex wife, too. 

Now stop floundering and start swimming purposefully for the shores of life.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Dude you ****ed up with both of them. Stop writing letters to your ex-wife. What the **** is the point of that anyway? The writing is on the wall with your GF and it sounds like she's checked out herself. You need to work on yourself and be single for awhile IMO.


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

Jasel said:


> Dude you ****ed up with both of them. Stop writing letters to your ex-wife. What the **** is the point of that anyway? The writing is on the wall with your GF and it sounds like she's checked out herself. You need to work on yourself and be single for awhile IMO.




:smthumbup: THIS.
Sorry man, I think you have really stuffed it up here. I also vote for focusing on yourself for a while. You may find that you actually enjoy your own company after all.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

The other HUGE mistake (and sorry if I missed it in somebody else's post) was that you talked to your gf about your ex-w, and vice versa. Sharing the letter with each of them? Nope. Telling your EX WIFE about how and when you met your gf? Why? That trivializes both of them, especially the gf.

I learned, and I learned QUICK, that I don't bring up my ex wife with my girlfriend, now wife. Any kind of talk, positive or negative, means she's still a part of my life, even if in some small way. Nobody wants to hear about their partners exes, nobody.

The person you're with needs to feel special, and that they're the ONLY one that matters. Even speaking negatively about an ex shows that they're still on your mind. The only time I speak about my ex wife is on here, and because I have a relevant piece of experience to share. My current wife does not want, or need, to hear about my ex.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

sound advice from everyone here, thank you. I wish to comment to each of you who posted.


> The other HUGE mistake (and sorry if I missed it in somebody else's post) was that you talked to your gf about your ex-w, and vice versa. Sharing the letter with each of them? Nope. Telling your EX WIFE about how and when you met your gf? Why? That trivializes both of them, especially the gf.
> 
> I learned, and I learned QUICK, that I don't bring up my ex wife with my girlfriend, now wife. Any kind of talk, positive or negative, means she's still a part of my life, even if in some small way. Nobody wants to hear about their partners exes, nobody.
> 
> ...


 i agree, maybe that was really stupid. i do have to say, this is new for me.it seems i write when dealing with a crisis in my life, that it. its actually the GF who brings up thigns about the XW not me. my contact with the X oer the last two years is basically zero.



> Sorry man, I think you have really stuffed it up here. I also vote for focusing on yourself for a while. You may find that you actually enjoy your own company after all.


no argument from me here.



> Get a hobby. Or regain interest in an old, discarded hobby. And I mean genuine, passionate interest. Become an expert on the Avengers, or a breed of dog, a brand of power tools, wine, Harlequin Romance Novels, whatever.


oh thts no problem... i have too many hobbies. planes, boats cars etc. that passion has not died.



> Don't pour your heart out in a letter. Letters are weak and feminine, at least when they're being written by a man to his woman. Manly men, one of which you intend to be, handle matters of the heart face to face, with manners and firmness.
> 
> When you're writing posts, or anything else, don't write "i" this and "i" that. Use "I." Not only is it grammatically correct, its how manly men write. You know what kind of guy describes his problems and says "i wrote to her that i didn't think being separated was the answer?"


the "i' thing just comes from my poor typing skills, but i see what you are getting at.



> X my man, I certainly hope you know more about planes than you do about women. If you don't both you and everybody on the ground is in danger. You decide to "come clean" with your ex, trying to report to her how you're spending ample time kicking yourself around for the marital failures and than decide to blab to your GF everything you’re thinking and feeling about your former wife. Dawg, she ain't to only one thinking you're trying to cozy up to your ex. So do I. Common sense would dictate that your GF would respond to your shenanigan.
> Now instead of looking like a hero, trying to impress the women with his visceral/sensitive side, you look like a chump who can't get his life together after his wife quit him. Yep, you've scored two failed relationship. The best thing you can do at this point is back away for awhile and call whichever you consider the love of your life, ask them for a date as if nothing happened. Most likely though, you're in an unrecoverable dive.


ther is no question where i want to be. 



> e mistake you made was jumping into a relationship while still in your marriage. I think it clouded your best judgement.
> 
> As to advice, I suggest taking a year or two away from dating and get you mojo back. Work and save some money, get in shape both physically and mentally. Get to a place where you feel happy and confident. At that time you can make better decisions.


I agree. i have told the GF that. i told her it casued me to make many poor judgements and she agreed. people here have commented about how i worte to my ex, as a warm up letter but it was anything but that. if iwas trying to warm up to her, why in gods name would i share that with my GF? the letter was actually pretty harsh, but fair, just pointing out where we both failed, apologizing for my mistakes, but firmly stating that we were over and all i wanted to do was close a chapter of my life and go on to be a different person. the GF stood to reap the benifit here. instead it backfired on me badly.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Your GF is a rebound, the odds of it lasting long term are extremely small, especially since you are going right out of an M.

Don't try to force it to work, all you will do it make things worse. Back off and if it is going to work it will be from her coming to you.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

ArmyofJuan said:


> Your GF is a rebound, the odds of it lasting long term are extremely small, especially since you are going right out of an M.
> 
> Don't try to force it to work, all you will do it make things worse. Back off and if it is going to work it will be from her coming to you.


i can see how any reasonable person would view this as rebound. heck, her and I talked about this. and of course so fresh from the discover of my wifes betrayl, i was shocked and dismayed. 

we talked at lenght about it.did our best to work through a tough situtaiotn. thats how we were still together for almost 4 more years. if this was a rebound it would have fizzled out long before that. we discovered many things about each other through this process (shes has had tough times in her life too)and it brought us closer together and we learned that we did care deeply (love) for each other.

so i can see how it can be viewed as a rebound, i can see how some would say what a convenient time to meet such a person. but the reality is i wasnt a "player" trolling for a new GF. in fact, due to the type of job i have, the way i lived my life, i was never around women. the only women in my life at all were either my EW's friends or couples we did things with. thats it.

i agree chasing her at this point is doing more harm than good. I'm done. 

I do have to say though, there is still something about all this that, having been here a while, having experienced the decline of a realtionship, there is more to this story. it doesnt explain her sudden change in behaviour, her new recent dishonestly, and other red flags. i am not sayin gthat she is having an affair. i just dont know. but i called her on these behaviours and instead, in the past, we could work through our differences. I see us at a point in our realtionship where a "power struggle" was begining, and she has made comments in the past how other people (men) like co-workers, bosses etc need to be "trained" in the treatment of her. well i was in this realtionship beacuse i wanted to be, not becasue i was well trained to jump through hoops. i believe she has been loooking for an out and i just gave it to her.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

x598,
Your wife was in an affair so it's easy to imagine how she was treating you. It sucks to be laying inches away from your spouse but feel completely alone.

So it's not surprising that you fell for someone. It may have helped you get out of the mess you were in but it's pretty much the definition of rebound. Someone showing you attention when you need it and then lots of emotional bonding. Once that initial drama is gone though you're left with the reality the relationship that was built on one set of rules but the rules have changed. You're not the guy in a failing relationship needing emotional rescue any more so you're not the guy she fell for. That's why rebounds rarely work IMO.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

x598 said:


> it doesnt explain her sudden change in behaviour, her new recent dishonestly, and other red flags. i am not sayin gthat she is having an affair. i just dont know.


Let me explain it to you Dawg, among other possible reasons, one that is glaring is that your constant dabbling with your ex caused your GF to lower her romantic interest in you, and who can blame her. You can spin it anyway you want but face it my man, you ain't able to turn your ex loose, and now the GF is considering her other options, as measured against a guy, 20 years her senior who can't quite get over his ex wife. 
I can practically read her mind---"when I'm 40, do I really want to be saddled with a 60 year old geezer who always made me feel like his plane was landing at an alternate airport".


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Let me explain it to you Dawg, among other possible reasons, one that is glaring is that your constant dabbling with your ex caused your GF to lower her romantic interest in you, and who can blame her. You can spin it anyway you want but face it my man, you ain't able to turn your ex loose, and now the GF is considering her other options, as measured against a guy, 20 years her senior who can't quite get over his ex wife.
> I can practically read her mind---"when I'm 40, do I really want to be saddled with a 60 year old geezer who always made me feel like his plane was landing at an alternate airport".


please dont take this is me not being open to your view. I am. but i do not believe "constant dabbling" as you put it......its an even remotely correct view of the situation.

when i told my XW i was done and left, the contact has been zero. the only contact was to work out divorce details or issues woth our boys. THATS IT. the divorce has been done for almost a year. there has been NO DABBLING and the contact with her has dropped to even lower levels, again, now only about issues with our boys. she would look at my phone and i freely shared my communication with her. my phone was never locked, always on, whenever she felt the need to look at it.

you also bring up the age difference.... let me tell you something, this is another thing THAT I POINTED OUT TO HER. we have had numerous talks about this. i am well aware im older. but i live more like I'm 30 than in my 40's and that will never stop. she was fine with it and accepted the reality of what it means. when im 60 i will still live like im 30. physically im in great shpae and look about 32.

you dont seem to have much to say about the red flags i pointed out. the new found lies, the drinking, the wanting to do other things when we could have been together, the going ot constantly, gaurding her phone,........ive been around here long enought to tell you somethign is up! she is now re-writing history, to justify what she is up to in my opinion. she is making mountains out of mole-hills. and this has been going on for a while......not since a few days ago wehn i wrote that letter.

also, that letter to my ex was anything but a love letter. sure, i came clean to her about the liieing i had done. so what? the GF is the one who preahed to me and taught me a real lesson about lieing, so i felt is was appropriate to come clean. I was actually harsh with her about the poor behavior she displayed all through this. i basically said i am not living this way anymore and trying to close a chapter of my life, turn over a new leaf and "washh my hands" of the bad descicions i made in the past. Then i went on tto freely and openly share it with the GF as a gesture to show her i was serious about being done with many thigns in my life.

i will PM you the letter.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> x598,
> Your wife was in an affair so it's easy to imagine how she was treating you. It sucks to be laying inches away from your spouse but feel completely alone.
> 
> So it's not surprising that you fell for someone. It may have helped you get out of the mess you were in but it's pretty much the definition of rebound. Someone showing you attention when you need it and then lots of emotional bonding. Once that initial drama is gone though you're left with the reality the relationship that was built on one set of rules but the rules have changed. You're not the guy in a failing relationship needing emotional rescue any more so you're not the guy she fell for. That's why rebounds rarely work IMO.


obviously i was in a bad place. we talked abou this all the time! but maybe you are right, she needs someone to "rescue" and im not that person anymore. 

i dont think that is what drew us together though. Im sure it sounds stupid, from someone looking in from the outside. instead we both realistically recognized the challenges our realtionship faced, adressed the issues and made it through.
in many ways, she is very mature for her age, in many ways iam immature for my age. we difinitley saw eye to eye on almost everything. but that has changed now.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

I think you got the idea.. 
*DON'T TALK TO YOUR GF ABOUT YOUR EX WIFE... PERIOD.. END OF STATEMENT....*

I recently told the GF, *"The most sh!ttiest day with you will ALWAYS be better than a great day with my EX WIFE... Why ? Because I love you.."*

I am not happy you started an affair with this woman while still married. Then you made an excuse of how your marriage was done before hand.. We all know here thats a BS cop out.. 

You end one thing before starting something else.. Period.. You're old enough to know that.. 

Therapy ? You need it.. 

Trust me it works, I do it every Wednesday, like religion.. I'm not broke, I have my 2 boys with me, I have my home, my money and my wife pays me child support.. And no she isn't crazy or rich.. She makes about 40k a year and I make 120k a year.. 

But I still have issues to deal with regardless.

This GF isn't a rebound for me, but nonetheless I've had some issues with her.. Things are better but it wouldn't have been if I didn't go to therapy to learn how to deal with this stuff. Granted she has her own issues but I definitely bring more to the table for us to deal with then she does, issue wise.. Hers are more of a woman thinking she is losing her looks.. 

20 years difference ? WTF do you guys even have in common beyond sex ?.. Granted I'm in to modern music but its mostly rock and metal. But I do like techno and club music at 48.. But my GF is 41 with 2 kids of her own.. 

20 years ? I know women are more modern than men and see past much we don't, EG looks for example and age.. 

But I don't give a sh!t what *YOU think* you act and look like.. Its what she thinks or others think.. Many of us have seen people on American Idol that thought they could sing and were shocked to hear they sucked.. 

I went to a comedy club.. The host asked the GF how old she was, she said 25.. They all believed her.. The host then with a crooked eye asked me.. I said 48... I got boo's and cheers from women and men respectively.. The host was shocked that I was 48 and thought I was more in my early 40s to late 30s.. My pic is in my bio.. The host was a single female though and then teased the GF about having more in common with me than her.. 

Mind you, this isn't me dueling swords with you.. I'm 48.. I don't give a sh!t who cares or knows it.. I don't need to be anything but 48.. I just don't see that I would have anything in common with a 38 year old let alone a 28 year old.. Though 38 could be doable maybe.. But its out of my range and it would be something that would have to sneak in on me.. But 28 I would see coming and would have zero interest.. I wouldn't be interested in fvcking someone that young.. Its just not me..


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> I think you got the idea..
> *DON'T TALK TO YOUR GF ABOUT YOUR EX WIFE... PERIOD.. END OF STATEMENT....*
> 
> I recently told the GF, *"The most sh!ttiest day with you will ALWAYS be better than a great day with my EX WIFE... Why ? Because I love you.."*
> ...


two things to adress here..... hindsight is 20/20 right? yeah i now know i was wrong for what i did.....and actually that doesnt even seem to be the issue here. she knows what went on, and choose to stay, choose to work through it as did I. all i wanted to do was finally close this chapter, thats why i shared that with her, apologising for what i did along the way.

second.....look i agree with your! what does a couple 20 years apart have in common? anyone having reservations about it would be justified. heck I HAD reservations about it. we layed it out in the open......and seriously considered what our age difference meant.

you ask what we have in common....damn near everything. you mentioned music....no issue there. we have the same hobbies/interests. our life goals and values are in exact alignment. she doesnt want children....ok i am too old to bring any more into the world anyway. same tastes in food, same political views. we are intelectually matched (if anything she is smarter than me). theres not much we arent compatible about!

abou the only thing i can think of is there are life experiences i have been through that she hasnt, simply being older. and thats not a bad thing. I wish when i was in my 20's i had a partner who was wiser and could see different outcomes to things having already "been there". 

therapy? sure cant hurt.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

x598 said:


> . . . *I am in my 40's,* was married for over 16 years, *2 sons* . . . I watched my wife change, toxic friends . . .
> 
> i met a beautiful and intriging young woman. we hit it off instantly. she asked if i was married as *i am 20 years older than her* . . . i was in an emotional afffair.
> 
> ...


Dear x598,

Read the abbreviated version above of your OP and then answer the following question: does this sound like the way a 40 year old man -- and a father -- manages his life?

You come across as someone who doesn't understand relationships, doesn't understand women and even doesn't understand himself. As others have advised, what you need to do is to discover who you are. Then, if you want to have a healthy, long-term romantic relationship, you need to develop a lot more emotional maturity and stability than you have presently.

As for your GF, note the things I've *bolded* above -- you're in your 40's, she's 20 years younger than you, you have two kids and you're broke. Now, tell me truthfully what you think are the chances that she plans to spend the rest of her life with you?

Finally, as others have also mentioned, you have a knack for doing things the _'beta'_ way. Get a copy of _"Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011"_ by Athol Kay and memorize it. That way, when you finally meet a woman who may seriously consider spending her life with you, you will know how to keep her interested.

Good luck.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

> Dear x598,
> 
> Read the abbreviated version above of your OP and then answer the following question: does this sound like the way a 40 year old man -- and a father -- manages his life?
> 
> ...



obviously, as you pointed out, you are correct.

I am not "broke" from a asset standpont. from a long term outlook,401k, pension stanpoint, I am doing ok. when i meant "broke" I meant a liquod cash standpoint. most divorces leave people totally strapped far beyond what i going troughand I am thankful for that.

MMSLP is on my to-do list. you wont get an argunent from me. 

"manages his life"..... no i am a train wreck. i should be further along than i am .


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

x598 said:


> obviously, as you pointed out, you are correct.
> 
> I am not "broke" from a asset standpont. from a long term outlook,401k, pension stanpoint, I am doing ok. when i meant "broke" I meant a liquod cash standpoint. most divorces leave people totally strapped far beyond what i going troughand I am thankful for that.
> 
> ...


Good post, x598. Accepting that you have a problem is the first step in fixing it.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

X598, my, your story would make a great screen play. I am serious. You foook up your marriage, then you bounce back and forth between your GF and your wife. Then you foook up the relationship with the GF. Then you write those letters. Oh, those letters! Nice touch. I still have not decided if this screen play is a comedy or a drama. You do not seem to be able to be without a woman in your life. You had no break between the relationships. In order to spice up the screen play, may I suggest you get involved with yet another GF? Then you can bounce between three woman. We could get Julia Roberts to play your wife, and Angelina Jolie to play GF1 and Jennifer Aniston to play GF2. It seems that you just cannot resist drama, and are incapable of living without a woman by your side. Ok, please let me know what your monetary requirements are and when my people can start contacting your people. Ok, we have a deal?!?


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

WalterWhite said:


> X598, my, your story would make a great screen play. I am serious. You foook up your marriage, then you bounce back and forth between your GF and your wife. Then you foook up the relationship with the GF. Then you write those letters. Oh, those letters! Nice touch. I still have not decided if this screen play is a comedy or a drama. You do not seem to be able to be without a woman in your life. You had no break between the relationships. In order to spice up the screen play, may I suggest you get involved with yet another GF? Then you can bounce between three woman. We could get Julia Roberts to play your wife, and Angelina Jolie to play GF1 and Jennifer Aniston to play GF2. It seems that you just cannot resist drama, and are incapable of living without a woman by your side. Ok, please let me know what your monetary requirements are and when my people can start contacting your people. Ok, we have a deal?!?


ya know, i appreciate the people that take their time to weigh in their opinions. while i think your sarcastic 2x4 is a little over the top, let me inject some reality into this conversation.

i was married for 16 years, many of them good. it was the last 1-2 before her affair started that our relationship eroded badly. I didn't recognize it back then. so the majority of my life has been with one woman.

I'm hearing you that i should have had my life in better order when i started dating this next woman. The timing of the entire thing was sheer coincidence in that we met by pure chance, and was in fact an activity i was using to "get my life in order". I was hardly prowling around desperate to see another woman at that time.

furthermore, i sensed distance, caught her lying, had issue with boundaries etc and broke up with HER. these letters came AFTER. And although she views it that way, the letter i wrote to my XW was me trying to communicate that i was DONE with her and my old life, sorry for the mistakes i made along the way and closed that chapter of my life. That is why i shared it. maybe it was a stupid thing to do, i was hurting over the loss of my GF and i guess i used poor judgment under the circumstances.

so you can ridicule me all you wish. but some of your assertions arent quite accurate or a little over the top. I assume you are perfect and have your relationships in life in balance. just wondering why you would be here if that's the case? in other words....foook off


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

X598, you met the GF by chance?!? You are a self liar. Nobody has ever started a relationship by chance. 

And you expect starting a relationship with a woman 20 years younger is realistic? And why would you want a relationship with a woman that would have sex with a married man?

Then the GF jumps out of another mans bed back into yours?

Until you fix your character problems, you'll never be happy in any relationship.

Let's do the screenplay...we'll make it a comedy. ;-)


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

WalterWhite said:


> X598, you met the GF by chance?!? You are a self liar. Nobody has ever started a relationship by chance.
> 
> And you expect starting a relationship with a woman 20 years younger is realistic? And why would you want a relationship with a woman that would have sex with a married man?
> 
> ...


met her by chance. absolutely. she was an instructor where i was a student. started a relationship by chance? of course not. i said after discovering my wifes affair,,i left, considering my marriage dead and only a "legality" at that point. i went full speed ahead. right person, right place, right time. had i never met her who knows where i would be today.

GF in another mans bed? where do you come up with this? i said there was a change in the relationship, some red flags. i dont believe for a moment she was having an affair. but the issues to me were brought up to her and the same behavior continued, that is why i felt compelled to break up. at the least, having been burned before, i am much more sensitive to things being "off" in a relationship and will never be passive about it again.

oh and another thing.... if making jokes about turning someone's life into a play is fun for you.......thats pretty "fooked up" as you would put it.

im trying to come here and learn from my mistakes, go on and be a better person. i dont expect to hear pleasantries but honestly you come off as a real dik


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

You really made me laugh when you said i send the letter to my XW
when i was breaking up with my GF(or ifter breaking up with her) to do the honorable thing, really ? 
your girlfriend is right ... you can say this was not to R with your xwife but it was to win her sympathy and to have some options in the futur


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

x598 said:


> x598 : well, NO THANK YOU. this isnt what i signed up for. I walked out and was content to try and live my life in a meaningful way to me.
> 
> after about a year, I met a young woman, who i completley identify with. Im not going to go into details, but we are a total match. We have had a great time, travelling together and enjoying many things together.


this is your post 2 year ago you said you met her 1 year after the divorce ... I'm confuse


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

imjustwatching said:


> this is your post 2 year ago you said you met her 1 year after the divorce ... I'm confuse


i understand how you,and others here, view what i did as an effort to reach out to my XW. all i can say is that wasnt my intention, you havent seen what i wrote, and i freely shared it (not some hidden communication my GF found) with her immediately, so that it wouldnt be viewed that way. I was distraught about the breakup, and at the time, seemed like the correct thing to do.

the older posts i have made that you looked up are indeed about the same person. This post is the same story told with more detail. when i said earlier about "after a year" i met a woman, it was at that point i told my now XW about my GF (who became physically violent and punched me in the face). many here have suggested my new relationship was nothing more than a "rebound" and i was trying to avoid dragging that into the conversation.

any sane person, including myself and my GF would think i was in a rebound position. of course. this is something i had discussions with my GF about. and the truth is i was deeply hurt and angered by what happened. But it wasn't coming from a longing or missing of my XW, it was more the sort of thing where i felt like my kids would suffer because of this, everything i worked for and built my whole life was in ruins, i wasted 20 years of my life, and so on. In a way, going back home was a good thing as it cemented in my mind that i didnt love my wife, she was incapable of repairing the damage done (and i simply couldnt live "existing") and showed me my best course was to put it all behind me. 

i thank you for taking your time and effort to comment. here is the thing though.......something changed in my relationship well before this letter. i could sense distance, she began being dishonest, going out drinking, etc. and having been in a long downward slope in my marriage, i am now probably hyper sensitive to the subtle warnings i didn't recognize before. i wasnt going to ride this into the ground. one poster suggested she was cheating and i dont belive that to be the case, not even remotely. but something is up and and that's what hurt like hell and compelled me to break up with her. I got the "i need space speech" before this too. yet, after all this, the LAST communication from her was "i'm so sad, I love you" etc.

guess i fail miserably at understanding women.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

x598 said:


> the older posts i have made that you looked up are indeed about the same person. This post is the same story told with more detail.


you said you met her 1 year after and in the second story you said you met her before even knowing that your wife is cheating ...
this is not a story with more detail , this is you just laying in the first story 
And i'm sorry if I sound harsh but this is what we see ...
and in the end this relation with GF may work or may not work that Ok in both cases BUT going back to your cheating xwife will be a huge mistake that your worst scenario ... even staying single and working on yourself will be a better choice than going back to her believe me


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

x598 said:


> I do have to say though, there is still something about all this that, having been here a while, having experienced the decline of a realtionship, there is more to this story. it doesnt explain her sudden change in behaviour, her new recent dishonestly, and other red flags. i am not sayin gthat she is having an affair. i just dont know.





x598 said:


> you dont seem to have much to say about the red flags i pointed out. the new found lies, the drinking, the wanting to do other things when we could have been together, the going ot constantly, gaurding her phone,........ive been around here long enought to tell you somethign is up! she is now re-writing history, to justify what she is up to in my opinion. she is making mountains out of mole-hills. and this has been going on for a while......not since a few days ago wehn i wrote that letter.


Well, usually when it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. The red flags and guarding her phone and going out with her friends and re-writing your history and getting upset with you and starting fights are probably things you are familiar with since you did them yourself (and so did your wife) which is why they are so blatant to you and you know something is off.

Thing is, it sounds like she has checked out. If she wants out, you need to let her go.



x598 said:


> you also bring up the age difference.... let me tell you something, this is another thing THAT I POINTED OUT TO HER. we have had numerous talks about this. i am well aware im older. but i live more like I'm 30 than in my 40's and that will never stop.* she was fine with it and accepted the reality of what it means*.


Thing is, people can change. So maybe before the age difference didn't bother her but it does now. You said she was just shy of her college degree when you got together so many she is older now and she is seeing things differently. That's one thought.

If this relationship ends and she wants out, then perhaps you should spend some time alone. Jumping from relationship to relationship is generally not a good idea. You never really processed the end of your marriage because you got involved with someone while you were still married and shacked up with her very soon after you moved out of your marital home.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How long were you dating gf?


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

> You really made me laugh when you said i send the letter to my XW
> when i was breaking up with my GF(or ifter breaking up with her) to do the honorable thing, really ?
> your girlfriend is right ... you can say this was not to R with your xwife but it was to win her sympathy and to have some options in the futur



well i deliberately showed it to her to avoid that exact thing. 



> How long were you dating gf?


 i dont have exact dates, we were apart and she entered into a short term relationship (maybe 4-6 months with someone else) but this has been going on for roughly 4 years. 



> hing is, people can change. So maybe before the age difference didn't bother her but it does now. You said she was just shy of her college degree when you got together so many she is older now and she is seeing things differently. That's one thought.
> 
> If this relationship ends and she wants out, then perhaps you should spend some time alone. Jumping from relationship to relationship is generally not a good idea. You never really processed the end of your marriage because you got involved with someone while you were still married and shacked up with her very soon after you moved out of your marital home


i dont know what the real issue is, i think its a culmination of many smaller things. i do think you could be very right, she is changing and i cant hold that against her.

i have no desire to be in any sort of relationship at this point. I am actually beginning to enjoy total freedom where i can come and go as i please, accomplish more,not being so concerned with her. doesnt mean i didnt/dont love her, just that its one less thing to deal with right now. funny, when a relationship is good it can be so easy and fulfilling. yet when its bad, it completely takes over your life and causes other issues to be amplified.

at this point, i just think she wants to be a free and unrestricted single person to come and go as she sees fit. maybe sort of "spreading her wings" to go onto different things or assert more control/influence in our relationship. the simple loss of understanding and communication for ones needs, the desire to put ones own needs ahead of the relationship, tells me everything i needed to know. i think the letter i shared was simply the "out" she was looking for in the sense that when i shared my intentions and feelings about the situation, her argument was simply "its not logical" and is choosing to believe my intentions were other than what they were. now she can blame it ALL on me and not even address the concerns i laid out and actually broke it off with her, even before this letter.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

x598 said:


> i have no desire to be in any sort of relationship at this point. I am actually beginning to enjoy total freedom where i can come and go as i please, accomplish more,not being so concerned with her. doesnt mean i didnt/dont love her, just that its one less thing to deal with right now. funny, when a relationship is good it can be so easy and fulfilling. yet when its bad, it completely takes over your life and causes other issues to be amplified.


Then you're in the right place even if she had to check out for you to be there. Now you've got time to be picky and have intrepidation about diving in too fast. Your next rodeo won't be clouded by the same drama this one was so it will be more stable IMO. Just stay away from ex wife and ex gf. There's too much water under those bridges.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

x598 said:


> guess i fail miserably at understanding women.


NO!

NONONONONONONONO.

We will have NO wallowing in self pity here. This is TAM. Its the people who respond that get to be miserable. You, OP, are going to get back on your feet and go forth and kick ass upon the world.

And if you DID understand wimmen, you would be able to write a book and become a zillionaire overnight, because not even an aging Hollywood heartthrob like me who has had deep meaningful relationships, often lasting for hours, with hundreds of beautiful wimmen understand them.

And don't think that pencil-**** who wrote Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus knows, either. He wrote that book for women. Go read it and see how many times he repeats the same bull**** over and over. Actually, don't go read it, just take my word for it.

And ignore Walter White, too. He deals meth in real life, and it ends badly for him, although a cool song is playing in the background there at the end.

You need to work on you. Period. Do that, and your life will become awesome.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

NotLikeYou said:


> NO!
> 
> NONONONONONONONO.
> 
> ...


thanks for that. I actually have a lot to be thankful for. for example, i called myself "broke" earlier in this thread. the reality is, im earning 100k a year, have assets, two cars, toys, a 401k and pension. my divorce just temporarily left me with no place to live (she got the house) and not much cash. but i have already rebounded from that in a big way, working very hard this year and in a position to buy a home, a goal i set out to do by the end of this year anyway. I may be in my 40's, but have the health,looks, and youth of some that's barley cracked 30. my children have done remarkably well through this mess.

so yeah, i need to stay positive and get through this new hurdle. just one more thing i guess.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

x598 said:


> thanks for that. I actually have a lot to be thankful for. for example, i called myself "broke" earlier in this thread. the reality is, im earning 100k a year, have assets, two cars, toys, a 401k and pension. my divorce just temporarily left me with no place to live (she got the house) and not much cash. but i have already rebounded from that in a big way, working very hard this year and in a position to buy a home, a goal i set out to do by the end of this year anyway. I may be in my 40's, but have the health,looks, and youth of some that's barley cracked 30. my children have done remarkably well through this mess.
> 
> so yeah, i need to stay positive and get through this new hurdle. just one more thing i guess.


Like this, a lot. Now you're talking like a 40 year old man -- and a father -- who knows how to manage his life.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

So here is my tuppence worth:


You need to see things as they are, not as you would like them to be. You didn't have a rebound relationship or anything like that. Call it what it was - you cheated! Pure and simple. So you are a cheater - no matter what justification you try and use for it. You need to fix this trait of yours - you now have a tendency to cheat when the going gets rough.

Your wife is a cheater too. Again, whatever the reasons and justifications - she is a cheater and also has a propensity to cheat. Bear this in mind going forward - even if you forgive her. So you are both cheaters. I would not reconcile if I were you as you both rug swept the whole affair thing and never dealt with it. And she does not sound like a nice person at all - selfish, entitled, liar, cheater, disrespectful (husband of family friends) etc. Why would you go back to such a person unless she literally jumped through hoops to prove her self and help you heal - and you would need to do the same for her too.

Your marriage was/is in trouble and this may be down to both of you. It would never be fixed while you were both cheating. You still don't know fully what went wrong exactly and how to fix it. So for now, it is definitely over seemingly beyond repair.

Your gf should not have engaged in a relationship with you while you were still married - no matter what you told her about the state of the marriage. She needs to recognise and deal with that weakness in her. She took on "trouble" and then experienced it first hand. She still didn't learn and went back for more.

You need to work on yourself now. Stay away from all the women in your life at the moment. Become a better person. Become financially stable. Improve your behaviour and health. Accept what happened as being wrong and look to make sure that you never repeat this kind of behaviour again.

Also be careful about who you get into a relationship in future. Take your time, ask a lot of questions, make sure that you both understand what you want from each other and what the current situation is. Anyone who will cheat with you will cheat on you too
.

Take care.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

******update********

it was all mirrors and smoke screen.

trust your gut. affair confirmed.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Ooooh. A baited hook!

C'mon, don't tease us. You know you want to go into detail.

We r hear 4 u.

Now TYPE!


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

If they cheat with you, they will cheat on you. So pay attention to red flags.
Also,,, just let her go. You sound really codependent. take a year for just you ALONE, firm up the finances and then watch them come to you.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

NotLikeYou said:


> Ooooh. A baited hook!
> 
> C'mon, don't tease us. You know you want to go into detail.
> 
> ...


whats to talk about? did some snooping/homework. it was an affair plain and simple and my gut told me all along. just didnt want to believe it. and of course she went right down the script, gas lighting, blame shifting, re-write, on an on.



> If they cheat with you, they will cheat on you. So pay attention to red flags.
> Also,,, just let her go. You sound really codependent. take a year for just you ALONE, firm up the finances and then watch them come to you


codependent maybe....but were best friends and had a good thing. ALL I WANTED was for her to be honest......i could handle a clean break. But she kept me a little hookoed, tossing out crumbs....typical plan B deal...... and this went down the classic cheaters script and i am glad i got to the bottom of it. even after confronting all she would say is "i dont owe you anything" ........typical self entitled princess caught red handed after BSing me all the way through.

put an offer on a house this week......my finances are fine.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

This thread makes me distrust my wife.

I think the key here is getting to a point where you don't care.

Don't worry OP. Youll get there, but for now work towards not giving a F about her.


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