# Plan of getting back - devilish, realistic, or meaningful?



## trying_to_rejuvenate (Aug 21, 2012)

Lingering here for a couple of days and had an idea I thought I could get your valuable opinion on....

*Background:*
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Wife is either LD or doesnt find me attractive for whatever reason. She is much of the kind of inert in bed.... attitude towards sex is extremely conservative.... BJs are pathetic to say the least and now I decided that its better not getting them after so much fuss over getting it for the most boring experience. She regards anal sex as perversion and a strict no no. The missionary style is her preferred style during sex. In 12 years of marriage I have been the only one to initiate. I have given her the choice of asking whatever she wants and I will fully do it just so that I could get in return better BJ but she just likes me on top and thats it. She "tolerates" Doggie style coz it makes me cum almost 100% of the time else I may last a really long time.
Besides the sex life the remaing part of our relationship is nothing to be happy about but IMO the sex life is impacting to the extent that I could claim that it is the only reason why our relationship is so screwed up. She brings neither money, nor love, nor affection, nor sex, nor a good carer for my kids. 
Cannot divorce her because the consequences are too scary in almost all ways (my special situation).

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*After years of being rejected, craving and being let down I will become a self-respecting man again. *
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Since my sex life is basically 1 on 10 I am considering the following:
1) I wont ever ask her/beg her for/during BJ again and neither allow her to do it in case she starts wondering what happened and tries to do this. (her BJ is pathetic anyways). Similarly I will never initiate.

2) If she wants sex (would happen once a month) I will tell her that due to my recent medical problem I can only do her doggy style (which I like but she just tolerates so that I can cum). Its just an excuse but it will be my little way of treating her the same way as she does to me. She likes me to make her cum with my hand - will start making excuses about this as well.

3) Spend more time with my children instead of trying to make her happy in some way under the illusion that she will give me better sex.

4) Spend time on my hobbies which I had almost stopped.

5) Start spending more time and money on my grooming and for my own gratification... different massages etc.... reading books (not the epaper edition) so that she doesnt think that I am just browsing the net etc..

6) Deprioritise her needs - stop shopping with her.... Only grocery shopping together. Will just give her sufficient money and let her go alone.

7) Stop inviting her friends to dinners and wriggle out of invitations from her friends as well.... (she likes doing this while the same friends egg her on in her selfish pursuits of self cetered way of thinking)

8) Not care for the kids education/home tutoring as this is not my only concern and my kids resent that only daddy is pushing them to the books. Get on the good side of the kids this way.

9) Give her the "50 shades of grey" to read as a birthday present - to fire her up if at all while I deprioritise her sexual needs  which might arise or in case she turns around really then I will switch myself on again.

10) Look and feel happy in any and all ways possible that does not seem dependent on her.

11) Give her the non sexual touches anyways just so that the relationship stays healthy to the level that is needed for the family.

At least since the morning when I have been developing on this idea and internalising it for implementation, I have been feeling happy and confident and my depression slowly ebbed away.... My craving has stopped.... I just hope when the next time I sleep next to her my hands dont reach over to her boobs however 
Suggestions, comments, help counter arguments all welcome !!!


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Trying,

Some of your points are worthwhile and I think some need adjusting.

I would re-think/not do the following:

#8 - Focus on your kid's education. To not do so would be a huge disservice to them

#9 - I know what you're hoping to gain here but from what you written about your wife, I doubt it will have any impact exept to re-inforce her views on sex

#11 - I would not do this. She's not meeting your needs and she should know this. Does she provide you with any non-sexual touches?

Also, the last thing you need to know is that this approach will most likely lead you to becoming detached from your wife (I know it did with mine). The trouble with this is that you'll eventually wonder why you're even married to her other than for the sake of the kids. Do you really want to live the rest of your life this way?


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## trying_to_rejuvenate (Aug 21, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Trying,
> 
> Some of your points are worthwhile and I think some need adjusting.
> 
> ...


No she is not giving me non sexual touches... coz probably she is scared that any touch from her will be replied by a sexual response.....
Well staying attached to her hurts me bad. I love her in so many ways but she does not see my love and rejects me in sex. She is not thoughtful and open minded so cutting away myself is the only way for me to keep happy.... Lord knows I have tried hard.... This time it was too much.... She has no empathy.
My concern for the kids education is backfiring on me as she looks at my concern from long back as unneccary and reproachable. The kids seem to think of me as a taskmaster due to this as well. I want to stay close with them and not distance them. Its better to let this go in the hope that it might cause my wife to take up this responsibility.

I dont know what her response might be.... but I will take the risk that it might be a catalyst. If it is not then I have nothing to lose since there is not any worse that our sex life can get .


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

While I'd suggest looking at divorce, I see you aren't willing to go that route, and that's fine.

Frankly, if she's not willing to put the work into the marriage, why should you?

You control the money and it seems like everything else. Start using your 'currency' in the relationship. Have a sit down discussion on the marriage, not just sex. Tell her you want to discuss issues in the marriage and that you want her to make a list of problems she has, while you'll do the same. Then, a few days later, arrange a time when you won't be disturbed (and shut off the cellphones, TV, etc.) and sitdown to discuss both of your issues. No matter what she says, don't get mad, just listen openly and objectively, and ask her to do the same.

After you have both vented your issues, exchange lists, so you can have hers, and she yours. That can serve as your reminder sheet.

Then both of you make a promise to actually 'try' to fix the problems in the relationship. If you both have the same problem (sex for example) then discuss what is a good middle ground and go from there. Using sex as an axample again, go into detail. Don't just talk about how often, but also discuss some of the other problems you mentioned, such as her not getting into it and enjoying it for example. See what can be done to encourage this from both her side and yours. Be sure to approach all issues (sexual and otherwise) in this manner.

Give it two months and then have another sitdown discussion. Be sure to praise what has changed just as much as you point out what hasn't changed. Then recommit to work on fixing what still needs change. 

After another month, sitdown again. Then you have to make a call. Have things improve enough to be happy, or are there still big sticking points?

If you're happy, commit (both of you) to keeping it up, and keep having these sitdown discussions at least monthly. COmmunication is the key.

If they don't, then you have to make a call if you want to live with it or if you want pull the plug. And by pull the plug I don't mean divorce.

Rather, pull the plug is to use your 'currency' in the marriage. She has to be getting something out of the marriage or she wouldn't be there still. I like some of your suggestions, but I wouldn't bring the kids into this. You are doing what is best for them with the tutoring, even if they don't know it. You want to get on their good side, spend time with them and do things with them. That's what they'll remember and appreciate. 

Don't engage in the tit-for-tat stuff either. If you don't like how she treats you, that's understandable, but treating her the same way won't fix anything.

And I'd pass on getting her the 50 shades of grey. You can lead a horse to water.... If she cares enough, let her figure it out. Make her put in the effort.

I'd start doing the things for you that you mentioned, such as hobbies and friends. I'd also start cutting her back on the things she gets just for herself. If she doesn't bring money in for example, start cutting back on what she spends for herself. And be honest, tell her why. Don't say 'it's because you won't have good sex', but tell her she's not making an effort to meet your needs, why should you work your ass off so she can spend money meeting hers?

Do that though after you have your series of discussions. 

Good luck, and God bless.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

trying_to_rejuvenate said:


> Lingering here for a couple of days and had an idea I thought I could get your valuable opinion on....
> 
> *Background:*
> ----------------
> ...


You my friend just described the 180. it is a pretty common term that refocuses your life on you. I think it is a great Idea. If she won't change.. Change yourself and work on you. Just be prepared to follow through with it an and not go crawling back.


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## trying_to_rejuvenate (Aug 21, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Don't engage in the tit-for-tat stuff either. If you don't like how she treats you, that's understandable, but treating her the same way won't fix anything.


Good thoughts Kingsfan, however I will get the pleasure of seeing her confusion and frustration if it arises, else it leaves me more contented with myself instead of being dependent on her for it. I would really want to go and get the other women for the contentment... but its impossible for me out of guilt, out of fear for STDs and generally any other diseases. I would give everything to get my sexual satisfaction out of her and with her and both of us enjoying our participation but its never happened and will never happen. I cant bring myself to give a positive talk again especially since our last fight after which she gave me the cruelest treatment which I will never forgive.... 

I have run out of all patience since our last fight and concluded that I have to change and if that makes her change then its fine else I have to find joy in my own self rather than in her.

Any conversation about sex is construed to be a discussion for me wanting pervert things.... Communication is her weakest point.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

trying_to_rejuvenate said:


> Good thoughts Kingsfan, however I will get the pleasure of seeing her confusion and frustration if it arises, else it leaves me more contented with myself instead of being dependent on her for it. I would really want to go and get the other women for the contentment... but its impossible for me out of guilt, out of fear for STDs and generally any other diseases. I would give everything to get my sexual satisfaction out of her and with her and both of us enjoying our participation but its never happened and will never happen. I cant bring myself to give a positive talk again especially since our last fight after which she gave me the cruelest treatment which I will never forgive....
> 
> I have run out of all patience since our last fight and concluded that I have to change and if that makes her change then its fine else I have to find joy in my own self rather than in her.
> 
> Any conversation about sex is construed to be a discussion for me wanting pervert things.... Communication is her weakest point.


Then it's time to start using your currency.

I'd still avoid the tit-for-tat stuff. Take the high road so to speak, especially since you have kids involved. Just do your own thing, and stop doing things for her. It's ok to get enjoyment if she's ticked off that you've stopped doing something, but stop doing it for you, not to make her upset. 

Focus on you, enjoy life, and once things come to the point that you can divorce, do so if you feel comfortable. Turn all your attention towards things that make you happy, such as kids, family, friends, work, hobbies, etc. Enjoy life. Just do it in a manner which you can hold your head high about. It would feel good to get into the nasty stuff now, but odds are you'll regret it or not enjoy it as much long-term. 

Congrats on manning up though. Good to hear a man roar!


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

trying,

I too have experienced the frustration of a LD spouse. However, your wife is WAAAAY beyond just being low drive. 

While I am not an advocate of divorce, I can't see why you'd want to spend any more time in this relationship.

The kids? You don't think that they know that there's something wrong with the way mommy and daddy act towards each other? They know.

the kids will also grow up thinking that this is the way a marriage should be. After all, it was for their mommy and daddy right?

Think long and hard on this point. Many kids would rather be from a broken home than live in one!


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Honestly, I think you have a lot in there that needs to go. Those are things that wreak of ‘getting her back’. Guess what? They won’t. Hell man, you’ve been on the receiving end of that.... Do you feel closer or more attracted to her? Nope. You are angry and frustrated... So, what to do...

It is complex as hell. Ask yourself questions: What kind of man am I? Create that want list. From that point forward, all your actions need to reflect this. Start with being the kind of man you want to be. This will up your attractiveness level. A bitter, sexually frustrated whiner is NOT who you want to be, nor is it attractive. Remember the old you before her? That guy was probably also frustrated but survived... And she wanted him. Attractive has nothing to do with whether or not you are getting laid. 

Get social. Share your social. Share stories of these women you’ll meet and how fun it was chit-chatting. Evoke out of your wife a bit of jealousy and competition. She’ll start seeing you as a prize, not a comfort blanket. She’ll get nervous.... particularly because you aren’t talking about sex anymore, rejecting her, and trying new moves for you own satisfaction in the bed; That will feed her insecurity. 

Next is dealing with your wife in the sack. If she offers duty sex (and she will as you go through this). Take it on face value; She is offering you to use her so you can get off and pacify you. Do not try to satisfy her. She wants you to ‘get it over with’... So pound her through the headboard, blow your load, and go to sleep. Her pleasure is not your concern with duty sex. You can’t wow her into lust.... that hasn’t worked yet has it? She wants pleasure? Well then she’s going to have to participate and figure out how to find it herself. So if doggy is your favorite, flip her over and go to town... You don’t need those excuses as to why you like this; You just do and its not about her getting anything out of it.. And lol.. If she gives you the ‘what about me?” whine... Tell her that isn’t what she offered; she didn’t want sex, she was willing to have sex; There is a huge difference and she’ll need to learn how to express what she wants better.

Also, if you don’t feel like it, or you truly can’t get off because of the horrible BJ’s... just politely reject; Not much explanation... “No thanks”; go ahead and counter offer if you want but it needs to be clear YOU are making the choice to accept or reject her. If she wants a talk... Do it. Don’t argue, just tell her whats going on. Get some balls and say “You give terrible head and I don’t like it. I like _____ much better.” Things can get interesting after that... Some will want to prove you wrong. The “dis” is a PUA tool. Also, for some reason, non-sexual wives seem to think their no-no is made of gold and there is no fathomable reason you won’t try to stick your hand in their pot of gold. Its flesh... That’s all. Make sure she knows it. 

And on the flip side... The “what do you want out of this marriage?” side of the coin. Just be the man and hold up your side of the marriage regardless of hers. Let her know you love her, are attracted to her, and so forth. Be sure though that it is clear what your ideas of a happy marriage look like to you and that you have limits and boundaries. Don’t speak in terms of how she’s failing it. Speak in terms of ‘this is what I want” and let her decide if it looks like that or if she’s willing or not to provide it to you or you need to move onto someone who will. Become an open book... Never leave her guessing too much where you stand and what you stand for..


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## trying_to_rejuvenate (Aug 21, 2012)

Toffer said:


> trying,
> 
> I too have experienced the frustration of a LD spouse. However, your wife is WAAAAY beyond just being low drive.
> 
> ...


I tell my kids when we have had our fights that it was wrong of us to do that and I let them see when I go over to my wife and hug her and rub her shoulders etc that we love each other as well.... and the older one is able to vocalise and say "dont fight daddy mommy, its not a good thing" and then I say he is right so I just reinforce that what he thinks so that he does not get confused...
I cant divorce at least for the next few years....Going thru helluva lot other things to add another one on the plate.

Of course, it rips my heart tothink of my kids after divorce as well..


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## trying_to_rejuvenate (Aug 21, 2012)

Racer said:


> The “dis” is a PUA tool. Also, for some reason, non-sexual wives seem to think their no-no is made of gold and there is no fathomable reason you won’t try to stick your hand in their pot of gold. Its flesh... That’s all. Make sure she knows it.


Reading these lines I didnt qute get them... what is "PUA tool" and "dis"


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

trying_to_rejuvenate said:


> I tell my kids when we have had our fights that it was wrong of us to do that and I let them see when I go over to my wife and hug her and rub her shoulders etc that we love each other as well.... and the older one is able to vocalise and say "dont fight daddy mommy, its not a good thing" and then I say he is right so I just reinforce that what he thinks so that he does not get confused...
> I cant divorce at least for the next few years....Going thru helluva lot other things to add another one on the plate.
> 
> Of course, it rips my heart tothink of my kids after divorce as well..


Trying,

There is a constant tension in your marriage and a deliberate thought on your part to "get back" at your wife. You don't think your kids don't sense/know this? Even though the two of you make nicey nice after a fight, don't you think they know something is off? You're not giving them enough credit!

I would begin working on your exit plan now. At least start thinking about it and consulting with an attorney to know what your rights are


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

trying_to_rejuvenate said:


> Lingering here for a couple of days and had an idea I thought I could get your valuable opinion on....
> 
> *Background:*
> ----------------
> ...


Well you know the definition of insanity - trying the same thing over & over.........

It sounds like you have a well-thought out plan to be happier. Good for you! If you are happier, your happiness will project to your children & also your wife.

I hope your marriage improves with your plan. Good luck!


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## Dino (Aug 21, 2012)

Racer said:


> Honestly, I think you have a lot in there that needs to go. Those are things that wreak of ‘getting her back’. Guess what? They won’t. Hell man, you’ve been on the receiving end of that.... Do you feel closer or more attracted to her? Nope. You are angry and frustrated... So, what to do...
> 
> It is complex as hell. Ask yourself questions: What kind of man am I? Create that want list. From that point forward, all your actions need to reflect this. Start with being the kind of man you want to be. This will up your attractiveness level. A bitter, sexually frustrated whiner is NOT who you want to be, nor is it attractive. Remember the old you before her? That guy was probably also frustrated but survived... And she wanted him. Attractive has nothing to do with whether or not you are getting laid.
> 
> ...



As a woman, who used to be LD, I'd agree with Racer except in one area. When I was on the withholding side of things, it wasn't because I didn't love my husband or want him to be happy, but life was busy, stressful & I was just unbelievably overwhelmed & exhausted most of the time. When H wanted sex, I looked at it as just one more chore that had to be done. I truly forgot how good it could be, not that I didn't enjoy it a little once we got going, but it got to a point that all we were doing were quickies, and I got into get it over with mode.

It took two things for me to open my eyes. First, I Honesty did not understand the way that men NEED sex, in the way that its your way of truly connecting with your W. I just thought it was more of satisfying horniness only. My wonderful husband, after years of frustration finally primed me to be open to discovering this by doing several things racer mentioned, which did get my attention and made me jealous & more protective of saving our marriage, but instead of NOT satisfying me in bed, he did the exact opposite. When I gave in, he focus ONLY on me and wouldn't even let me touch him at all, and pleasured me for so long that I swear it changed my body chemistry and after a few session of that type of treatment (maybe once a week for about 2 months) with maybe a quickie just to get me warmed up and left hanging in between these sessions, I was begging him to come home at lunch, pushing him into the closet as soon as he walked in the door from work, jumping in the shower with him, etc.

Then because I was in the right state of mind, he finally set me down telling me that sex was non-negotiable to him in our relationship. Then followed by handing me a book to read, "the proper care & feeding of husbands". Well unfortunately, that particular book begins with a message that basically states a woman's job in a marriage is to be ready to give her husband sex or food upon demand, which sent me through the roof, so I wouldn't suggest that book to begin with. Fortunately, over one of the roughest fights of our entire marriage, he was able to convince me that because sex was no longer negotiable, I had better read the book, which I did. I still think its not the best book to start off with, but its a quick read & does some good explaining, but maybe give instructions to read it from the back forward, its easier to take the first time that way.

However, even though I had a better understanding of the mechanics behind a man's brain, it wasn't until I had done further reading in order to get H to understand MY needs that I truly understood where he was coming from. I read "Secrets about women every man should know" and also "Secrets about men every woman should know". I also understood that part of the reason I was acting the way I was, was because my needs were also being neglected. Not because H didn't try, but I couldn't really articulate my needs, which had nothing to do with sex, in a way he understood & what he thought I needed & was giving me just wasn't enough. 

There are many other great books out there that do a great job of explaining the psychological differences between men & women that aren't common sense. After I read those, I felt such extreme regret & remorse for EVER treating my husband the way I did, and finally realized how incredibly insulting statements like, "Are you done yet" or "Ugh, can you try to hurry up" were. To this day, I am so embarrassed to have been one of THOSE women, but again, it wasn't because I didn't love & respect him, although that wasn't how he perceived my actions. 

Our marriage is COMPLETELY different since, and now I'm dealing with his LD (Karma?), but our marriage is strong and we both WANT to make each other happy. Of course we still have our issues, but I'm sooo happy & in love that I'd throw him down 20 times/day if I thought he could handle it  but continually strive to make each day better for him. It wasn't overnight for us, but immediate went from that 0 or 1 to a 5, and built to a 9 over a period of 3 years or so, and still striving for that 10+!

Anyway, I know I'm long winded, but wanted to share my perspective, because you sound like you really do love your wife and genuinely want things to be better rather than giving up and walking away.


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## trying_to_rejuvenate (Aug 21, 2012)

Dino said:


> As a woman, who used to be LD, I'd agree with Racer except in one area. When I was on the withholding side of things, it wasn't because I didn't love my husband or want him to be happy, but life was busy, stressful & I was just unbelievably overwhelmed & exhausted most of the time. When H wanted sex, I looked at it as just one more chore that had to be done. I truly forgot how good it could be, not that I didn't enjoy it a little once we got going, but it got to a point that all we were doing were quickies, and I got into get it over with mode.
> 
> It took two things for me to open my eyes. First, I Honesty did not understand the way that men NEED sex, in the way that its your way of truly connecting with your W. I just thought it was more of satisfying horniness only. My wonderful husband, after years of frustration finally primed me to be open to discovering this by doing several things racer mentioned, which did get my attention and made me jealous & more protective of saving our marriage, but instead of NOT satisfying me in bed, he did the exact opposite. When I gave in, he focus ONLY on me and wouldn't even let me touch him at all, and pleasured me for so long that I swear it changed my body chemistry and after a few session of that type of treatment (maybe once a week for about 2 months) with maybe a quickie just to get me warmed up and left hanging in between these sessions, I was begging him to come home at lunch, pushing him into the closet as soon as he walked in the door from work, jumping in the shower with him, etc.
> 
> ...


Dino ! you are a wonderful woman and thanks for the recommendations. My wife is however one of those who doesnt like books just television shows/movies. I know that even with 50 shades of grey she would have a hard time starting to read it. 
Could you give some names of movies which gives these messages in very interesting ways..... 
I have loved her from the beginning but she does not see it.... sigh....


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## trying_to_rejuvenate (Aug 21, 2012)

Now I can imagine what my wife will say when I am doing this: "Your love is conditional you will love me only when I give you BJs" or something like that.
what would be my best answer since I cannot reason out saying that sex is the way men connect emotionally?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

trying_to_rejuvenate said:


> Now I can imagine what my wife will say when I am doing this: "Your love is conditional you will love me only when I give you BJs" or something like that.
> what would be my best answer since I cannot reason out saying that sex is the way men connect emotionally?


Do some online research into it. Find copies of couples books, such as His Needs, Her Needs. Show her clinical 'proof' of what you are saying.

You can also (in a polite way) tell her that she needs ____ and you give it to her, but you don't ever think "Your love is conditional you will love me only when I give you _____" because you know that's not true. It's just a need of yours, the same as sex is a need of mine.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

trying_to_rejuvenate said:


> Reading these lines I didnt qute get them... what is "PUA tool" and "dis"


"Dis" you point out a flaw instead of how perfect she really is. I'm sure its been done to you. The reaction is typically to prove it wrong and can lead to interesting conversations.

"PUA"; Pick up artist. Believe it or not, those books can help us married guys as well who've sort of forgotten how to 'game' our wives. We forgot that our wife is still a woman. Women don't respect doormats or just another 'girlfriend'. They want a man. Sometimes, we try to hard too give them what they ask for instead of what they need. Don't become a servant in your relationship (applies to both sexes)...


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## Dino (Aug 21, 2012)

trying_to_rejuvenate said:


> Dino ! you are a wonderful woman and thanks for the recommendations. My wife is however one of those who doesnt like books just television shows/movies. I know that even with 50 shades of grey she would have a hard time starting to read it.
> Could you give some names of movies which gives these messages in very interesting ways.....
> I have loved her from the beginning but she does not see it.... sigh....


Even if your wife isn't into reading, I'd highly suggest that you read a book or two. The ones I recommended are good (for you, I'd recommend you start with Secrets about Women Every Man should know, or even His Needs Her Needs) because there is excellent info in there for BOTH of you, trust me! Not that her actions are justified, but I'd be willing to bet that despite your best efforts, you are not meeting her needs in the way she needs them met. My husband is a wonderfully caring man, and would do/give me anything he thought I wanted/needed. However, part of my LD was that my needs weren't met, and honestly, neither of us fully knew what those were until reading the book, when the lights went on for me & I could relate to so much that was written. 

I would guess that if you did a little reading, and realized what small changes you could make, you'd be able to get her into a frame of mind that she'd be willing to look over a chapter because she'll be in a better mood and start wanting to do something for you.

You could even do like I did, go through the book (It's kinda hefty) and highlight passages that you can personally relate to and make notes in the margins about your thoughts or how you relate, then she can skim through your highlights & focus on the most important areas first, and by the time she's done, if she doesn't see things differently and want to start putting effort into saving the marriage, maybe it's time to move on. I know there are tons of women who would love to have a man that is willing to put in the effort to make her happy. Good luck!


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