# Just Discovered Affair



## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

I've been married to my wife for a couple of years, and our marriage has been through some difficulties. (I wrote some posts about them on these forums, actually.) It's safe to say that there have been times that I've thought about divorce. But I stuck at it and tried my best to make things work.

For the last few months a big change has come over my wife. When she looks at me it's like she's looking at another person - it seems corny to put it like this, but I used to see eyes that were full of love when she looked at me, and now I see anger and hatred, almost. I try to make conversation with her all the time, but our talks usually literally go like this:

Me: "How was work?"
Her: "Fine."
And silence.

Or;

Me: "How's your mum?"
Her: "Okay."
And silence.

On a day off if I suggest we go somewhere or do something she finds an excuse - she has to see a friend, she wants to do some housework, etc. 

I thought it was because she was depressed, because for the last year she has had some problems with work, our move between different cities, being unable to settle down. 

So I was walking on eggshells around the issue and not wanting to upset her by having an argument about it. I even suggested a few times she go to therapy or call the Samaritans.

But yesterday I was talking to a friend about it, because I needed to talk to somebody - I just can't live like this. And almost the first thing my friend said was, "Are you sure she isn't seeing somebody else?"

To tell the truth I thought it was very unlikely. Apart from anything else I trusted my wife implicitly. But this morning when she was in the shower I looked at her phone and found text messages from somebody which made it pretty clear that, if she isn't physically involved with somebody, she's certainly emotionally involved with him. And I'm 99% sure it's physical.

I have no idea what to do next. Our relationship was a mess, but I've been trying hard in my own way. Maybe not in a very sensible or well-thought-out way, but at least I've been trying. Now it turns out she hasn't been trying at all.

It sounds like a stupid question, but how are you supposed to handle something like this? It never in my life occurred to me that some day I would have to deal with my wife having an affair. I should confront her, I suppose. My immediate thought was that I want a divorce. It even felt a little like a relief to find out, because the last few months have been like hell. But there is a part of me that thinks, everybody makes mistakes, perhaps this is something stupid she's done because of some problem in me, like I haven't been there for her in the way that I should. If she was really depressed and having problems, maybe I should have offered her more emotional support than I have done? 

What should I do?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Thank God that you don't have kids. Dump her and find someone else. You do not want to procreate with a cheating skank. You will be tethered to her for life.


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## Soupnutz (Jul 6, 2011)

Don't blame yourself. Yes, at least half the blame lies with you on the marital problems themselves, but as far as her having an affair. Nobody made her or forced her to do it, it was a choice she made alone. If you confront her, don't accept her try to shift the blame to you.

I recently found out about my wifes affair, but it was different than most situations on here. I confronted her with a suspicion and she confessed everything. No blame shifting, no tickle truth, (pretty sure of that because it couldnt be much worse than what she told me), she took full responsibility for everything and had already put herself on no contact with the other man. 

We are currently trying to reconcile, but I had it easier than most and didn't have to deal with a lot of the regular issues as far as investigating, and confronting and the fog and everything. Go with your gut though, it doesnt lie. All I had was a gut feeling and some phone calls via the phone bill, no hard proof. Some would say gather all the evidence then confront her, I'd say just do it. Tell her that you know there has been problems and you suspect something is going on. That if she has any love for you or hope for your marriage whatsoever she needs to tell you everything, that if she tells you right then and there you will try to work with her. But that if she says nothing and you find out later, there is no chance, the relationship will be over.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

It probably wasn't you. You kept asking her out, you noticed that she was distant. Etc. Some people are dependent emotionally and expect marriage to be a 'fix' for that, when it isn't they keep seeking outside the marriage. Reality is never good enough for them, they are takers, not givers. And in this respect, poor marriage material. Cheating during the first few years of a relationship/marriage is, IMO, a very bad sign of someone's emotional state and communication skills (or lack thereof). 

For me, I felt better bailing because of the cheating, lying, and other abuse such as emotional distancing, railroading, gaslighting, blaming, accustations as to my own fidelity and honesty, etc.

It was all too much. Everyone has to decide for themselves what is in the path of a relationship and where is the end...maybe you don't want to make a decision, maybe you want to look for more information first. That is okay. Take care of yourself first, and then see about taking care of the relationship. It is your wife's duty to take care of herself and her emotional state and actions. You cannot do this for her and to attempt it will result in your own personal exhaustion, possibly frustration, and resentment on her part. It's different from taking a stand for a marriage, that might be appreciated by the wayward partner, but I'd draw the line at abject humilitation and begging. Ugh.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

I am in a somewhat similar situation as my W has cheated on me, tough part is we have kids, You are going to have some tough choices as to keep her and make it work or go your seperate ways, I can tell you if I did not have kids the choice would be easy.....see ya later, I dont care what was missing in your relationship there is no reason for her to cheat on you and there may be excusses but they are not good ones. Dont blame yourself. I am of the mindset of if you do it once cause things get tough that you will do it again......in my own situation I am trying to navigate these waters but due to having kids I have an additional part I need to sort though, it is not as easy and leaving........you on the other hand can kick her out today very easily......I say dump her and move on but again this is a question only you can answer..... Good Luck


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Sit her down and literally FORCE her to talk to you about everything-----Do it w/out yelling, cussing, shouting, do it in as nice a manner as you can, but MAKE it happen

If she won't talk, then tell her, you will not go on living like this, and If she wants a D., that is fine, as it is probably better, than what is going on now

I do not think, once she faces reality, she will want to find herself in a D., situation---but then again, only she can answer where she is at---one thing I do know---you cannot go on as you are

She is probably demonizing you, as justification for whatever she is doing that is outside the mge.

Don't back down---being mr. nice-guy will get you nowhere, but a continuation of what you already have!!!!!!!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

boutrosboutros said:


> What should I do?


Since you asked, I will give you my suggestions. 

Without revealing your source, ask her *calmly, quietly and respectfully 'Are you having an affair'?* Of course she'll most likely get angry with you, accuse you of not trusting her and some other nice things, but she won't answer your direct question with a direct answer. If this happens, you may want to respond *Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I will soon be contacting an attorney to start the divorce proceedings* and walk away. 

Follow through with the divorce attorney and wait for her to get served. If she's a cake eater - does not want to give up the OM (other man) but does not want to give you up either - she may panic and beg you not to do it. At that moment, you will have the upper hand and demand NC (no contact) with the OM, sending him a NC letter to the OM (which you stamp and send) as well as requesting answers from her about who is he?, where does he live?, what is his telephone number?, is he married? etc. Of course if she's too much in 'the fog' (she wants to be with the OM and not with you).

Read the following:



> I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.
> 
> _*Just Let Them Go*
> 
> ...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I've read your previous threads and you posted back in March how the both of you suddenly disconnected, DESPITE your attempts to engage her and be with her. At the time you said there was no infidelity, no abuse. Now you discovered that she's been cheating. Now it makes total sense, she was withdrawing from you physically and emotionally because she is in an affair. 

You also stated that you don't want kids with her even though you think she would be a good mother. This might be because your gut was screaming at you back then that something wasn't right. And your gut was correct after all. 

You've only been married 3 years with no children. When a spouse cheats this early into the marriage, it is NOT a good sign. She has already broken her vows that she made before you, God, family, and friends. She has broken the trust. Look at the possible future of the marriage 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, when you possibly have children, own property, have finances entangled. What will happen when she gets bored? What will happen when the stress of raising children and managing the finances stress both you and her? She has already been proven to be a cheater this early, what about after all those things I mentioned stress the marriage? 

Reconciliation is already a very difficult process, only 35% of marriages survive infidelity, so already, the odds against you are 3 to 1. Almost everyone here will tell you that they would have left there cheating spouse long ago if there weren't any children involved. If you reconcile with her after she cheated this early, you will be forever looking over your shoulder to see if there is another OM waiting for your WW to run to.

End it now before you invest more years of your life with her and find someone you can trust, because right now, you will not trust her for a long time.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I was out until late last night and didn't get a chance to talk to her. I will tonight.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Bout, sorry you are going through the pain of this. You are getting some good advice here so far. Another thing that really helped me get a sense of direction when I found out about my W's infidelity:

Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights « betrayed but recovering

In my case, my W was not a "cake eater" she was simply done with me, and so the damage of betrayal + rejection hit particularly hard, but I'm slogging through it and slowly but surely healing... life 's not "great" but it is better already than how it was the past couple years since she "checked out" - its more lonely but also liberating, scary but hopeful, etc.


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## hurthusb (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm really conflicted. I've avoided trying to find out who this guy is, because I don't want to do anything stupid. I can always find out who he is later if, when I'm a little cooler, I still want to know or need to for some reason. I'm a data security expert, finding this guy shouldn't be a problem.

But what will that do for me?


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

hurthusb said:


> I'm really conflicted. I've avoided trying to find out who this guy is, because I don't want to do anything stupid. I can always find out who he is later if, when I'm a little cooler, I still want to know or need to for some reason. I'm a data security expert, finding this guy shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> But what will that do for me?


Many people find the unanswered questions troubling, so getting information gives us a perception of control. That would be the value to you. If you don't need it, then don't bother.

Given the newness of your marriage, I'd confront her: If she immediately confesses and tries to make it right, there is hope. If not, (which is way more likely), I'd just cut bait on this relationship. Cold, but the amount of effort involved in waiting through the fog, the amount of BS you have to deal with, isn't worth it if you don't have a joint life you are trying to protect. You seem modestly invested in it.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> Many people find the unanswered questions troubling, so getting information gives us a perception of control. That would be the value to you. If you don't need it, then don't bother.
> 
> Given the newness of your marriage, I'd confront her: If she immediately confesses and tries to make it right, there is hope. If not, (which is way more likely), I'd just cut bait on this relationship. Cold, but the amount of effort involved in waiting through the fog, the amount of BS you have to deal with, isn't worth it if you don't have a joint life you are trying to protect. You seem modestly invested in it.


It was somebody else who made that post you quoted, not me the OP. I'm not sure who the guy in question is, as his name was only initialled in the text messages ("DC"). But I know a guy at her work has those initials, and 2+2 usually equals 4.

I'm going to confront her tonight. "Modestly invested" is about right. I love her and we've had very good times together. But this comes off the back of more than a year of hard, hard slog. It feels like the nail in the coffin.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

boutrosboutros said:


> It was somebody else who made that post you quoted, not me the OP. I'm not sure who the guy in question is, as his name was only initialled in the text messages ("DC"). But I know a guy at her work has those initials, and 2+2 usually equals 4.
> 
> I'm going to confront her tonight. "Modestly invested" is about right. I love her and we've had very good times together. But this comes off the back of more than a year of hard, hard slog. It feels like the nail in the coffin.


You might want to look at hurthusb's thread as a frame of reference with regard to your situation. Look at the future. Like I said, it's not a good sign when a spouse cheats this early in the marriage. If I found out my WW had cheated early in our marriage and we didn't have kids yet, she would have found herself on the curb before she knew what happened. As such, I've already invested 22 years, kids, property, and finances. But I would throw it all away if it had gone PA. That is MY deal breaker.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm writing this from my sofa, where I'll be sleeping for the next night or so. I confronted my wife about the affair and she admitted that there was somebody. She said they'd just been out a few times, initially, until I confronted her with text messages showing they'd had sex and were planning a weekend away together in August, the weekend before my birthday. She then started to accuse me of not being supportive to her, of failing to protect her emotionally, etc. I agreed that this was probably true, but she wouldn't even admit that she'd done anything wrong and wouldn't even apologise.

I guess my marriage is over. The fact that she can't even admit her wrongdoing...

The thing that hurts me the most is that there is a stuffed duck toy that I gave her once as a present. I found a picture message on her phone where she'd sent a photo of that toy to her boyfriend and said she was naming it after him. Funny how the stupid little things affect you the most strongly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

It's too close to call it done. You have to give yourself as well as her some time to sort through what just happened. DO NOT make any long term decisions for at least a couple of months if not longer. Keep you head about you as much as possible and do not get angry and say things you can't take back. Remember to engage brain before opening mouth. Walk away and cool down if you feel the anger rising and can't control your mouth. It is way to soon to tell what she will do. Take care of yourself physically and for god's sake don't do anything stupid to yourself. Give it time my good man. The world has not ended even though it may feel like it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

boutrosboutros said:


> I'm writing this from my sofa, where I'll be sleeping for the next night or so. I confronted my wife about the affair and she admitted that there was somebody.


Why are you the one to sleep on the couch? She should be the one. She cheated and is continuing to cheat. She is the one who damaged the marriage. You should make her sleep on the couch, give her a taste and at the same time, let it sink in that she is the one at fault. No need for chivalry here, not when cheating is involved.



boutrosboutros said:


> She said they'd just been out a few times, initially, until I confronted her with text messages showing they'd had sex and were planning a weekend away together in August, the weekend before my birthday.


And you just had a dose of Trickle Truth, she minimized what she did until you confronted her with proof. This is right out of the cheaters handbook. They will deny unless presented with proof.



boutrosboutros said:


> She then started to accuse me of not being supportive to her, of failing to protect her emotionally, etc. I agreed that this was probably true, but she wouldn't even admit that she'd done anything wrong and wouldn't even apologise.


What she's doing is Blame Shifting, again, right out of the cheaters handbook. Whatever you do, *NEVER take responsibility for her Affair (A).* You were only responsible for 50% of the state of the marriage, she chose the easy route: Cheating. Instead of communicating with you what her needs where, instead of working on the marriage, instead of divorcing you honorablly, she cheated.



boutrosboutros said:


> I guess my marriage is over. The fact that she can't even admit her wrongdoing...


You haven't invested many years of your life with this woman yet, nor do you have children with her. She's deep in the fog of the A and will continue to be. Its time to cut your losses. It wouldn't be worth the effort to R. It takes 2-5 years to recover from a betrayal of this magnitude. Is she even willing to put in the hard work of reparing this marriage? 

When you move on, and have a new wife and family of your own, you will look back and be glad that you had the strength to not waste your life with this woman. When I was in the military, I had a young troop going thru the exact same thing. They didn't have kids yet, only married 3 years, we advised him to move on. He did, the cheating wife ended up having 3 kids with 3 different men, while he moved on to a wonderful wife and kids. Years later, when he found out what happened to his ex wife, he was so glad he moved on. Like I said, its a bad sign that she's cheating this early in your marriage.



boutrosboutros said:


> The thing that hurts me the most is that there is a stuffed duck toy that I gave her once as a present. I found a picture message on her phone where she'd sent a photo of that toy to her boyfriend and said she was naming it after him. Funny how the stupid little things affect you the most strongly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, that must hurt so much, I know it would hurt me. You can see how little she loves and respects you. FWIW, there is another poster here who's WW actually got pregnant by the OM, and she was planning to name the baby after the OM!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You must decide what you will do---you are the only one living in your shoes, you are the only one who really knows your situation---when you have decided what you need to do---then do it---it doesn't matter at what point in time, you make your decision----when you know what is right follow thru with your decision---based on what is best for you


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## tofuhater (Jul 10, 2011)

I am sorry for your hurt and, yes, even the loss of your marriage. Whatever you do, please do not buy into the psycho babble crap that you are somehow to blame ! -- Her affair is not your fault ! -- It is a character flaw she has, not you. Yes, you may have done things that pushed her away from you, but she is the one that chose to cheat and guess what, as she continues her relationship with the OM or someone else, she is going to find out that HE can't meet her emotional needs either. IN other words - it really is her problem and she is going to own it for the rest of her life. But you don't have too ! Thank GOD you found out as early as you did !

IT's OK for you to sleep on the sofa - I know when I found out about my W affair I did the same -- BUT DONT LEAVE THE HOUSE. Make her go ! -- Get rid of all of her **** when she does - I don't mean destroy it to be vindictive but just make her move it - put it in parents garage or storage or at the OM house - even help them get it out - just get rid of it. Get rid of it - get rid of her - get rid of the wedding pics - burn them even - sounds bad but it can be very cathartic to watch it go ! , throw the damn ring in a river - sell the house if necessary to get rid of the memories. Move on - u deserve better -- everyone deserves better than to experience this type of rejection from their spouse. 

I know this is hard to believe but I am truly envious of you. I wish I had known about my W affair before I had kids. We were married for 10 years before we had kids and the affairs happened before we had kids. Rarely does a day go by that I don't think - If I had only known before we had kids -- Would love to be able to think of myself and leave ! -- There really are people out there who value a marriage and the committment it takes to make it work. You and I just weren't too careful or very unlucky in who we picked !


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Again - don't make long term decisions and don't throw her out until you are 1000% sure you are done. You do not have a clear mind right now. If you do decide to R, such rash decisions can make it extremely difficult to overcome them and move on. Give both you some time to cool off then decide. On a side note, once separation occurs - one or the other moving out, the chance of R goes down significantly.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

First cut the ducks head off!
That will for sure give away your source so maybe you can take the toy and give it away IDK.

Why in the hell are you sleeping on the couch? It should be her, man up!

Does she want to stay married to you?


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

the guy said:


> First cut the ducks head off!
> That will for sure give away your source so maybe you can take the toy and give it away IDK.
> 
> Why in the hell are you sleeping on the couch? It should be her, man up!
> ...


I'm sleeping on the couch because my parting shot was spoken as I flounced off in pleasingly dramatic fashion to the living room, having taken the moral high ground. There's value in that. At least it made me feel better to say to her, basically, yes you had an affair and yes I can still be the bigger person.

I don't know if she wants to stay married to me or not. I'm taking the advice of people here and a friend that I talked to, and pursuing my own life as if I'm single from this point. If she ever wants to reconcile I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. 

I found out the guy's name, address and home and mobile telephone number. I'm just trying to decide whether I want to call him or not. I have a sneaking suspicion he's the type who will flee for the hills once the reality hits him that he's got somebody else's separated wife on his hands.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

If you call make sure your number is blocked from caller I'd. No threats, just stay away from wife. Then hang up. Do not discuss. Expect your wife to say something immediately. Do not respond other than "I see your still in contact". Then shut up and walk away. Do you or don't you want to try if she does the right things?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

Wow! Are you sure you aren't living my life... I had the same thing happen to me. But we were together since we were teenagers and I thought we were rock solid. All of our friends would have said that too. But, one day he change well it was more gradual. It turned out he'd been having an affair for over a year. She was a friend and much younger than me. They were "just friends" so I put up with the texting and her constantly being over here involved in our family outings. She babysat for our kids too. Actually I think my daughter picked up the vibe first but didn't understand it. She just started to hate this OW and refused to let her near her (and they'd been close before)...anyway I kept trying harder and harder and he'd push me away. He changed he was angry and me and the kids all the time. He then got very emotionally abusive to me. I needed to know, and when I found evidence (texts and pictures emailed) it was actually a relief, I could finally act. But in reality I could have and should have acted before. 

So what to do? FOCUS ON YOU. What have you always wanted to do and never done? Change your life and move on. Tell her to move out or you move out. It will not get better this way. 

If she truly loves you this will shake her up and you have a chance to repair it if you want to. If she waits too long you might decide you don't want to or find someone else. But you can't keep things the way they are. 

I am such an analytical person I needed to set a deadline. I had a trip planned with my daughter and mom and I decided to use that trip to think about my life and my future and my deadline to kick him out (before discovering affair this was just based on his treatment of me) was 2 weeks after that trip. 

Well we didn't make it those 2 weeks because as soon as I came home I discovered he'd slept with her in my house. I acted THEN. Told him to get out this was not his home anymore. I had the locks changed that night and planned to go straight to the courthouse Monday morning to file for divorce. I also got up the next morning and went running. I gave up exercise to care for my family, hell I'd given up everything to cater to him and look what he did..

It was so liberating to take control of my life. He had been in control before. Even though I was facing divorce and being a single mom, I suddenly knew it was his loss and I was very strong. I didn't even think other men would be interested and immediately I had someone I'd met who wanted to go out (I'd taken the ring off). I decided not to even though he was a great guy because it was too soon. 

My husband didn't stay gone for long. He began calling and texting me and then said he'd made an appointment with a marriage counselor would I go even if I still planned to divorce him. This was a huge transformation for him. He ended it immediately with the OW and gave me all passwords to his computer, phone etc and said if I let him back he'd come back under my terms. He'd change. I didn't believe him but gave it a shot. He was true to his word. He did change. 

So did I. I now run 1/2 marathons and look for our next great adventure (he's gotten in to it to) and always take the time to focus on me. I feel good about how I grew but I made that happen and if I'd sat around waiting for him to make the decision I know that I'd be miserable today. 

So its time you took control away from her. She broke the marriage vows so what are you going to do about it?


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## BigBri (Jul 22, 2011)

You can't go on living in the same house like this, man. Something's gotta give. She's just gonna be throwing this thing in your face... are ready for that. Just look at KNUTWILLIE's thread- he's in hell right now. Is that what you want for yourself.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I'll say it again, fast is slow, smooth and careful is quick. I wouldn't be in a hurry to run out or throw out the door.


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## BigBri (Jul 22, 2011)

I don't think I said to throw her out. I just said to let her know you're on to her. Check if this guy is married too. You may need to expose.


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## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

the guy said:


> First cut the ducks head off!


:smthumbup:

Perfect answer.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

BigBri said:


> I don't think I said to throw her out. I just said to let her know you're on to her. Check if this guy is married too. You may need to expose.


He's not married. He's 38 years old, single, never been married.

She knows I'm on to her, believe me. I just told her this morning that nothing I've done excuses what she did, and that I'd be leaving to stay with friends tonight. I told her she can contact me again if she wants but as far as I'm concerned it's finished.

She did some things that I've learned from this forum are classic cheating behaviour. First she tried to make me feel guilty for checking her phone, and accused me of doing it for months and months, spying on her. She couldn't believe it took me all of five minutes to pick up her phone one time when she was in the shower, read her recent texts, and find out everything. (This was the first time I had ever looked at her phone in 7 years of us being together - it's called trust.)

Then when I told her that if I found out the other guy was in our apartment I would call the police and have him charged with trespassing, simple as that, she said that she never slept with him, they just "went out", and she wouldn't ever sleep with him. She must think I'm an idiot; I read what they were texting each other.

It really is unbelievable what somebody will say and do to try and make excuses for doing something wrong.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

AZMOMOFTWO said:


> So its time you took control away from her. She broke the marriage vows so what are you going to do about it?


Thanks for the advice, really. I'm happy things worked out for you and your husband. 

I'm planning on doing exactly what you said. As far as I'm concerned from yesterday onwards, I'm thinking as a single person. Not that I'm going to start going out dating women right and left, but I'm living my life for me.

I don't even know if I want to reconcile with her. In your case you had kids. We don't. We don't even have many financial ties; we rent our apartment. What would keep us together is love and memories of the happy times, but after a year of hell followed by this I'm not sure if I can ever get back to being in love with her again.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You had best let her family and yours know she is in an affair the next part of the script is for her to gaslight you to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Whatever you do, do NOT move out. She cheated, SHE can leave. Let her pay for her 'happiness.'

If you want to reconcile, the first thing you'd need to do is call her parents and siblings and tell them what she's doing. I know this sounds counterintuitive, but if you want her back, you have to end the affair, and the #1 best way to do that is to make the affair no longer fun and exciting. Make it slimy and embarrassing. The people whose respect she wants to keep are the ones you tell, so that they call her and give her what for, and (hopefully) let her know that they will NOT accept her new Wunderguy as your replacement. They need to burst her bubble, so she'll have to rethink what she's doing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> You had best let her family and yours know she is in an affair the next part of the script is for her to gaslight you to them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Exactly.

I PROMISE you, she is going to tell (or already has told) them that YOU are a monster, her life has been hell, and this guy just 'got' her and helped her through all the horribleness that is you.

They believe whoever talks to them first.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

On shouting from the rooftops about the affair I disagree. Yes it needs to be brought out. WHo is a huge question. Telling the entire family can cause serious resentment and anger and embarassment and cannot be undone. Does she have a particular family member she looks up to and confides in? Do you get along with person? In any case that is where to start and do in the form of asking for help with her, not just exposure for exposure sake. Same with friends. If things stay the with the A, then drop the announcement bomb. I think it's too soon for scorched earth. Do you know any family member like I describe?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

FAst is slow, smooth and careful are quick. DO no more harm no matter what she has done. Be the adult.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> FAst is slow, smooth and careful are quick. DO no more harm no matter what she has done. Be the adult.


Yoda speaks.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes my son. I guess one thing I've learned is patience and doing the right things instead of thrashing about and running into ten walls before you get where you want to go is a lot less painful. I have the bruises and scars to prove it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Telling her parents and siblings is NOT telling the whole family. It is telling the people who will - if you stay together - be intimately involved in your lives.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

That all depends on those people. Some are the stick their nose in far types. Some are the bullhorn to the local community and aunt and uncles. My wifes family had both. I told only the two sister who could help and she would accept help from. They helped immensely. She was happy that I contained it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's your story. If he wants to save his marriage, exposing to her important people is about the only way to stop the affair.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

What do waywards fear the most , exposure to those they care for the most, close family and friends. If you have the time go to the affair sites and see how the waywards behave, exposure has been proven even on these site to adversely effect the affair and given their marriages a greater chance of recovery. Once the illusion has gone reality sets in, for those on these same sites who's BS have not exposed they have either gone underground or started another affair. Those very same people admit to fearing exposure.

While I don't not claim it works for everyone it does work for the greater majority of cases I have read and dealt with . Importantly it helps protect the BS from the lies being spun by the wayward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> Yes my son. I guess one thing I've learned is patience and doing the right things instead of thrashing about and running into ten walls before you get where you want to go is a lot less painful. I have the bruises and scars to prove it.


I'm 53. How old are you 'dad'?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Taking the shiny newness and secrecy off it a fine idea. Having someone the WS respects get in her **** and trying to help her change things without the anger associated with the world knowing is quicker.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

It's like using a bunker buster as opposed to a air burst nuclear weapon.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

A lot less reconstruction and mess to clean up with the former.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Or an ERW (enhanced radiation weapon) otherwise known as a 'neutron bomb'. Kills all living things but leaves inanimate objects such as buildings relatively intact.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

Well, I just called the OM and told him if he went within 3 feet of my wife again I'd break his worthless f*ing neck. And God it felt good. I heartily recommend it to anyone in my position.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Good for you, what did you say and what was his reaction ? You will find it is therapeutic to haveredone this , the OM knows he is no longer hidden to conduct his affair and is now in the limelight and he will have consequences.

Do not tell your wife , if she says anything it confirms they have had contact. Expose this now to your folks and hers before she concocts a story about you , again do not mention the conversation with the OM .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Doe the boutro boutros end with gali?


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

I said exactly that. "This is X's husband. If you come within 3 feet of her again I'll break your worthless f*ing neck."

He said "Oh sh*t" and I said "Oh sh*t is right," and hung up. Then I left him a text message calling him a piece of sh*t.

And that was that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Glad yu got some satisfaction. Now stay away from him. He's not worth harrasment or assault and battery charges. Remember assault is the threat, battery is the act.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh, and with the text goes your phone number.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

I am sure calling him a piece of sh&t does not constitute harressment or assault , the OM will likley be wondering what to do next. Anything else said is his word , he can always go to court I am sure the public exposure would be great.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't tell your wife. Wait to see what she does. Do tell her parents if she comes after you. Don't get involved with her, just go somewhere private and call them and tell them what's going on.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm a lawyer. I'm not worried about that, believe me. But you're right, it's not worth getting physical.

On the other hand I'm happy for him to have my number, if he wants to call me which I doubt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You may want to consider getting a voice-activated recorder and keeping it on you for the next couple weeks. I've seen men here get kicked out of their house on trumped up abuse charges, forced by the court to pay all HER expenses to live in the house, and get a RO against him so he couldn't go there to get his kids, all because she filed a harassment charge against him.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

turnera said:


> Don't tell your wife. Wait to see what she does. Do tell her parents if she comes after you. Don't get involved with her, just go somewhere private and call them and tell them what's going on.





turnera said:


> You may want to consider getting a voice-activated recorder and keeping it on you for the next couple weeks. I've seen men here get kicked out of their house on trumped up abuse charges, forced by the court to pay all HER expenses to live in the house, and get a RO against him so he couldn't go there to get his kids, all because she filed a harassment charge against him.


Thanks for the advice. I haven't told her and won't. 

As for the abuse charges... Thanks for the warning but I don't think it's an issue. I'm in the England, so the law is slightly different here, but for what I did I could possibly be charged with harassment - to which it is a defence if I can prove my conduct was reasonable. No policeman, let alone judge, would so much as look at this if he/she had half a brain.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

I should also add that he indisputably *is* a piece of sh*t, so it wasn't harassment, it was a statement of fact.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Leave message on his window - You'll never see it coming! Keep him scared sh!tless and always looking over his shoulder!


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

8yearscheating said:


> Leave message on his window - You'll never see it coming! Keep him scared sh!tless and always looking over his shoulder!


Haha, nice idea... Actually after venting at him I feel sorry for him more than anything else. He's 38 and single, never married, and he's been preying on a woman who was vulnerable in a pathetic attempt to get something approaching a relationship.


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## Soupnutz (Jul 6, 2011)

Get one of those calling cards that allow you to change what will show up on the caller ID. Was thinking about having some fun with my WS's OM, call his cell phone from his house phone, and vice versa, maybe a call from 7734, depends on how the 4 shows though, some phones are different. Hell, she had some fun with him, why shoudn't I?

Along with her going NC, she made me promise NC towards him. I'm not even in an angry rage, I want to calmy walk up and hit him in the face with a bat. If he'd have been straight with me, I might have a little respect for him, I confronted him on the phone before I had actually found out anything and he had the nerve to tell me he had more respect for himself then to mess with a married woman, and had more respect for me and my wife than that.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

OMG - pity? I wanted to turn my wife's OM into a woman with 45 hollow point and watch him bleed out. Or cut his d!ck off, put in his mouth and bury him up to his neck in the desert. Pity. NFW


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Third one was put a explosive device in his car seat under his nuts that went booom when turned the key. NO MERCY


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Settled for telling his wife. She has a fish line leash on his nuts right now!


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

He's not worth even getting angry about. Right now I'm philosophical. He's one of life's losers, that's clear enough.


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## Lily_B (Jul 28, 2011)

I am still angry, its been 2 weeks since I found out about my husband's affair. Things remind me every day about it, whilst I am trying to come to a decision on whether to stay or leave him. Stay strong!!!!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> OMG - pity? I wanted to turn my wife's OM into a woman with 45 hollow point and watch him bleed out. Or cut his d!ck off, put in his mouth and bury him up to his neck in the desert. Pity. NFW


Hialrious! 

Boutros--did the OM ever contact you again? Did your wife say anything? How is she acting now? Have you decided whether you want to stay married or not?


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## marital_discord (Jul 29, 2011)

Gentlemen! Cheating has NOTHING to do with what you MAY HAVE or MAY NOT HAVE, done, said or forgotten to do. You simply fell for a woman who has no morals. Why waste time wondering and questioning your own intentions when her intent was to defraud you? Let him have her - he isn't getting much. What you had (turns out) wasn't worth keeping anyway. Stop loving someone who isn't capable of loving you in return. Six months from now you'll wonder why you hung on for as long as you did.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Hialrious!
> 
> Boutros--did the OM ever contact you again? Did your wife say anything? How is she acting now? Have you decided whether you want to stay married or not?


No. He hasn't contacted me again. Obviously he doesn't have the balls to. My wife hasn't said anything, but I'm staying with friends at the moment and I told her not to contact me, so... Who knows? We're meeting tomorrow night to talk.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marital_discord said:


> Gentlemen! Cheating has NOTHING to do with what you MAY HAVE or MAY NOT HAVE, done, said or forgotten to do. You simply fell for a woman who has no morals. Why waste time wondering and questioning your own intentions when her intent was to defraud you? Let him have her - he isn't getting much. What you had (turns out) wasn't worth keeping anyway. Stop loving someone who isn't capable of loving you in return. Six months from now you'll wonder why you hung on for as long as you did.


fyi, the one woman in the world whom I admire the most was a former cheater. She had a messed up marriage, cheated, ended it, and worked her butt off with her husband to learn from her mistake and create a really great marriage.


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## marital_discord (Jul 29, 2011)

"fyi, the one woman in the world whom I admire the most was a former cheater. She had a messed up marriage, cheated, ended it, and worked her butt off with her husband to learn from her mistake and create a really great marriage."

She was ONE in how many thousands of REFORMED cheaters?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Who cares? She reformed.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Marital - are you bitter?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

turnera said:


> Who cares? She reformed.


And, may I add, she has gone on to help hundreds and hundreds of distressed people on at least two forums that I know of and is generally considered by everyone, by consensus, to be the most helpful poster they've ever met. So she has repaid for her transgression more so than anyone I can think of. 

Just saying this to point out that none of us knows what another person is capable of, for the bad OR the good.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

boutrosboutros said:


> No. He hasn't contacted me again. Obviously he doesn't have the balls to. My wife hasn't said anything, but I'm staying with friends at the moment and I told her not to contact me, so... Who knows? We're meeting tomorrow night to talk.


Why aren't you home? Go home. You did nothing wrong. Go back and stay there. It could be considered "abandonment" by the courts/laws.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Why aren't you home? Go home. You did nothing wrong. Go back and stay there. It could be considered "abandonment" by the courts/laws.


We rent, so that doesn't matter. I left because to be honest everything there reminded me of her and also I wanted the company of people who care about me.


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## Sparkles422 (Jun 3, 2011)

I had a cheating spouse, stuck in marital home together and every am and pm he would be on cell talking.

X admitted once about EA, then took it back and said this is what I wanted to hear that he was in an EA. Right, figure that logic.

Divorced him last week, still in same house (had cash offer, out by 8/17) and he is still on cell with EA same pattern.

Still in the fog.

Good luck with whichever decision you make; neither are easy., but self respect and self love are no matter the pain.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Sparkles, I'm sorry to hear he never woke up. I hope you are taking of yourself and surviving, no, more than surviving - moving on with your life and finding happiness and someone who will show you the love and respect you deserve!


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

Sparkles422 said:


> I had a cheating spouse, stuck in marital home together and every am and pm he would be on cell talking.
> 
> X admitted once about EA, then took it back and said this is what I wanted to hear that he was in an EA. Right, figure that logic.
> 
> ...


That's really awful - the disrespect of him to talk to her right in front of you is pretty galling. 

I'm still in two minds. I can understand why my wife was unhappy in the marriage, really I can. When I look back at how I was... I just wasn't emotionally there for her, because I was always working. I didn't have a single day off work since March including weekends, at a time when she had a lot of personal issues and family problems that needed dealing with. I can see that very clearly now. And I think she was feeling low and a bit lonely, and a guy from work took advantage of that to wheedle his way into her affections.

It doesn't excuse what she did. *Nothing* does. But half of me is in a mood to forgive and try and work things out.

Then again the other half of me never wants to see her again.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

BB - you will constantly switch between yes and no for quite a while and while she's still involved it's hard for yes to win out. Has she shown ANY inclination to NC? If not, you may have to push and tell her your pushing for D to get her to start to come out of the fog. That would include cutting off all financial support by draining joint accounts and closing all joint credit cards or loans - such as if she has a car loan. People are telling you not to leave the apartment because you don't want to make that aspect easier for her. SHe screwed up, she should move out. Start with the financials then talk to an attorney about doing a negotiated settlement with ONE attorney. Even if you file, you can always kill it and there may be waiting period where you live. Once you done those two, sit down with her and tell her what you've done and where you are with the attorney. That it is HER decision - NC now because you can't tolerate this continuing without an NC registered return receipt letter and changing jobs so there is no chance of contact. There will restrictions, transparency and a number of other things she will need to do to R, but don't go into details or lists until she is 100% committed to R. You can also tell her that you prefer to R and know it can much better but you won't be hurt anymore waiting. OR move out and you will start the lawyer on the negotitiated settlement. You can tell her that a single lawyer negotiated settlement is about $7k. If she she insists on two separate lawyers that could go $20-40K. DOn't argue, beg or plead. Just lay it out and tell her she has a week to make up HER mind.

Get cracking chief!


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

8yearscheating said:


> BB - you will constantly switch between yes and no for quite a while and while she's still involved it's hard for yes to win out. Has she shown ANY inclination to NC? If not, you may have to push and tell her your pushing for D to get her to start to come out of the fog. That would include cutting off all financial support by draining joint accounts and closing all joint credit cards or loans - such as if she has a car loan. People are telling you not to leave the apartment because you don't want to make that aspect easier for her. SHe screwed up, she should move out. Start with the financials then talk to an attorney about doing a negotiated settlement with ONE attorney. Even if you file, you can always kill it and there may be waiting period where you live. Once you done those two, sit down with her and tell her what you've done and where you are with the attorney. That it is HER decision - NC now because you can't tolerate this continuing without an NC registered return receipt letter and changing jobs so there is no chance of contact. There will restrictions, transparency and a number of other things she will need to do to R, but don't go into details or lists until she is 100% committed to R. You can also tell her that you prefer to R and know it can much better but you won't be hurt anymore waiting. OR move out and you will start the lawyer on the negotitiated settlement. You can tell her that a single lawyer negotiated settlement is about $7k. If she she insists on two separate lawyers that could go $20-40K. DOn't argue, beg or plead. Just lay it out and tell her she has a week to make up HER mind.
> 
> Get cracking chief!


She works with the guy in question, so absolute No Contact is impossible while she's still in that job. That's what makes this a f*cking nightmare. I know that scumbag will be there every day trying to undermine my marriage, despite what I said to him on the phone.

She told me that she won't see him any more outside work. I told her I don't believe her and have no reason to trust her. She said "I can't prove anything, it's up to you to trust me." My immediate reaction is to think that she's dodging things and she'll carry on seeing him. She can prove it very easily: show me her phone and let me see what she's been texting him SINCE I found out.

But you're right. The more I think about this the angrier I get. I'm going to do exactly what you say.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

marital_discord said:


> "fyi, the one woman in the world whom I admire the most was a former cheater. She had a messed up marriage, cheated, ended it, and worked her butt off with her husband to learn from her mistake and create a really great marriage."
> 
> She was ONE in how many thousands of REFORMED cheaters?



do you have real stats or are you going by gut feeling based on your own small size of experiences?

the real stat that is generally floated out there is that 1 out of 3 marriages survive an affair

now I will be the first to admit that the term "survive" does not mean true healing and repair of a marriage. But you have to factor in the fact there is a percentage of cheaters who have learned from failed marriages and had spouses who could not get past the infidelity (which is their right and choice) and did not cheat again, so the number is probably close to 25-30% of cheaters who will be reformed. And I agree that the act of cheating in of itself is immoral and wrong. But we all do things that are wrong and to varying degrees of how wrong. It's what we do to atone for them and learn from it that makes us better people or simply self serving and immoral to the core. Surely, you recognize the difference between my wife who cheated for 3 weeks, but did the right things to learn from that bad decision and someone who cheats and never atones for it or worse a serial cheater who has no desire to change whatsoever?

The point is that a good chunk of us who are betrayed are willing to forgive and give it a shot, and with a willing partner who is completely transparent, remorseful and atones for their transgression can get to a better marriage. I know there are more people who can't do this but to say that we are one out of thousands is certainly an incorrect assumption.


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## Lily_B (Jul 28, 2011)

So sorry BB. I can understand how difficult it must be for you, knowing they work together. Seems like a typical answer she's giving you about how you just need to trust, is she kidding? Seriously, I don't think I can ever trust any one again after what he's done to me. You are right to be around people that care about you. That is what I have been trying to do as well, although we are still in the same house. He claims NC but of course I don't believe him. Besides after a year long PA to nothing in a span of 2 days, unbelievable really. Hang in there BB!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

You can start with telling her you plan to see an attorney, don't tell her when. Tell her that just saying she is no contact is not sufficient for you to trust her. Trust is something that is earned and proven through actions. Without complete transparency in terms of phone, text messages, email, face book etc. there are too many ways for her to continue in contact and that is not acceptable to you. There can't be the begging of trust until that happens. Even then it will take time for you to BEGIN to trust her. Proof of NC will need to exist for some time before trusts starts to be rebuilt. As Ronald Reagan said about the Russians - Trust but Verify. If there is no way for contact to be completely broken at work by the mandate of a manager or physical separation of jobs, the constant schmoozing of this guy at her, makes it ongoing risk you are not willing to tolerate. Have a manager enforce no contact, change stores or locations or quit. Last but not least, how about a restraining order, will she get one of those on him? If not, ask her why you should believe if she sides with him, why you can trust her?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

boutrosboutros said:


> She told me that she won't see him any more outside work. I told her I don't believe her and have no reason to trust her. She said "I can't prove anything, it's up to you to trust me."


And that's where the strong man says 'No, you will PROVE it to ME or I will never see you again. I don't share with anyone.' And walk away. Make her chase you.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Trust must be earned and if she's not willing to be an open book to you - and actively seek for another job - then you will never be able to trust her plain and simple.


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## boutrosboutros (Sep 10, 2010)

Well, I told her today she has a week to decide whether she wants to be with me and work on our marriage or not. Next Saturday I'm moving back into our flat, and she can either stay there and be my wife or leave and divorce. If it's the former she can never see the other man again outside of work and will start looking for another job.

I'll see what happens.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Good luck BB


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

boutrosboutros said:


> Well, I told her today she has a week to decide whether she wants to be with me and work on our marriage or not. Next Saturday I'm moving back into our flat, and she can either stay there and be my wife or leave and divorce. If it's the former she can never see the other man again outside of work and will start looking for another job.
> 
> I'll see what happens.


Good luck and prayers for you both. Work hard, if she was worth marrying she is worth battling for. I've heard that 80% of couples that divorce because of an affair regret it while only 1 in 10 affairs turn into long term relationships.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good for you.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Good luck and prayers for you both. Work hard, if she was worth marrying she is worth battling for. I've heard that 80% of couples that divorce because of an affair regret it while only 1 in 10 affairs turn into long term relationships.


Because we as betrayed spouses here know about the "fog", it's easy to see how 80% regret it: The wayward spouse comes out of the fog and realizes that the grass is NOT greener on the other side of the fence. Reality destroys the fantasy of the affair, and they regret destroying the marriage after they realize that their OM/OW isn't Prince Charming or Miss Wonderful. That's why 97% of affair marriages fail.

So no, that statistic isn't in favor of R, it's the waywards regretting destroying the marriage because of their infidelity.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

boutrosboutros said:


> Well, I told her today she has a week to decide whether she wants to be with me and work on our marriage or not. Next Saturday I'm moving back into our flat, and she can either stay there and be my wife or leave and divorce. If it's the former she can never see the other man again outside of work and will start looking for another job.
> 
> I'll see what happens.


Good for you. Don't waiver from this. At all.

If at the end of the week she is still being wishy-washy, tell her you are done. Remove yourself as an option: "If I can't be your #1, I don't want to be your anyone." 

Mayhem-you are so right about The Fog. I think that high last about 12-18 months before it starts to wear off. Maybe two years?


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