# This is killing me



## Johnny Drama (Nov 25, 2008)

My wife and I have been married for 13 years with 3 children under the age of 12. A little over a week ago she announced to me that she wanted a separation from me. This was the first time the topic has ever been discussed. She said she loves me, but is not "in love." God, I hate that slogan.

I have read some other posts, so I know I am not the first one to ever have had this experience. That said, this is killing me. A separation is the last thing I want because I believe this is a fast track to divorce. I've offered counseling, time away from our kids so we can talk privately, etc. Every single thing has been refused.

I have come find out the she has been carrying on an emotional relationship of some sort via cell phone and face book with someone else. I suspect that this guy has made her think the grass is greener somewhere else and in turn has made her want to keep me at arms length because she thinks I will try and talk her out of this. Which of course is what I am doing.

Interestingly she has been confiding in some friends and her parents. I spoke with her father the other night and I was shocked to discover that she told him this was a mutual decision on our part. I did tell him that this was very much one sided and I am committed to do whatever I can to work things out. While I was at it, I mentioned to him that she has this other guy in the wings. Obviously, she left this tidbit out as well. To his credit (we have always had a good relationship) he got in touch with her and told her he would not enable this, financially or otherwise.

After a week had passed, my wife and I sat down to discuss the situation. I was hoping that things may have changed. They didn't and she still said she was wanting a separation. Things took a turn for the worse when she and I discussed how that would work. I told her that if she wants this and I do not, then it is only right that she leave. I will make any sacrifice necessary to work on us, but if she refuses then she needs to go. I'm not going to leave the house I have worked for (she has not had a job in the last 11 years) my entire life. I'm not going to send the message to my kids that I don't want to be around them either. Needless to say, all hell broke loose then because she just doesn't have the financial resources to do anything about getting a different place to live.

Having said all of that, I have been continuing to ask for reconciliation. I have written a letter to her mother explaining this, so we'll see where that goes too. My wife said that because I won't go that if she ends up staying it will only because she is trapped.

I don't know what to do. I want to work on things but it has to be mutual or else we are doomed anyway. I also have to wonder about this "emotional friend" of hers. She called him 73 times last month. "We're just friends" she says. I have friends, good friends of mine, that I haven't called 73 times in my life, let alone a month.

Sorry for the long post. Any advice is appreciated. I have to wonder that with all of this, is reconcilliation possible? Would I ever feel truly loved in this relationship? Don't I deserve more?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Johnny Drama said:


> I told her that if she wants this and I do not, then it is only right that she leave.


I totally agree with you there. but i can understand how it would piss her off. not saying its right, though.

why would she say she's not "in love" with you anymore? 

by the way, i hate that slogan, too.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

I believe you are reading the situation very clearly. There is most likely an EA going on. It is true, she may only view it as a friendship and not realize how damaging it is to the marriage. Is this long distance or is TOM local? Making her stay in the house will likely make her feel trapped. She is correct there. Usually when a spouse engages in an EA it is because they lack something at home. Do you have a clue as to what it might be? Would she be willing to discuss this? What underlying problems do you have in the marriage? I agree with you, when a spouse elects to leave a marriage for no apparent good reason they should be the one to leave the home. It is their choice.


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## Johnny Drama (Nov 25, 2008)

The "not in love" thing stems from her opinion that I do not make her feel special enough. Not that I am a saint...I'm not. I think that I fell into a trap of playing the role of husband, i.e., I worked hard, listened to her when something was bothering her, was a good father. She is looking for the small things that make her happy. But I think she is looking for "fireworks." She mentions this all the time.

Everybody wants the fairy tale, you know? But I can't take us back to our second date where we had the anticipation of seeing each other again complete with butterflies in our stomachs. She wants that, she wants to be made to feel that way. That's probably the reason for this other guy, right now she is excited when she talks to him, at least that is my guess.

Hope that helps explain it a little better.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Johnny Drama said:


> But I think she is looking for "fireworks." She mentions this all the time.
> 
> Everybody wants the fairy tale, you know?


So have you asked her what you could do to giver her "fireworks?" i know, she probably doenst want to tell you. she just wants you to know. but its worth a try to ask. she probably doesnt know how to get that either.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

ljtseng said:


> So have you asked her what you could do to giver her "fireworks?" i know, she probably doenst want to tell you. she just wants you to know. but its worth a try to ask. she probably doesnt know how to get that either.


i'll guess her response...she'll say "nevermind," or "i don't know." you know why? because her perception is that she's told him "a thousand times before."


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

voivod said:


> i'll guess her response...she'll say "nevermind," or "i don't know." you know why? because her perception is that she's told him "a thousand times before."


ah touche! 

in my case the 'nevermind' approach actually worked. i think. well, probably in combination with a lot of other things. but my H started to actually think about the things i love and doing them for me. 

you know, i was just thinking, if she's said a thousand times that she wants 'fireworks' take her out and give her fireworks. no, really. real fireworks. whatever you can find. Tell her, you said you wanted fireworks. at least she can see you're trying to listen.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

ljtseng said:


> ah touche!
> 
> in my case the 'nevermind' approach actually worked. i think. well, probably in combination with a lot of other things. but my H started to actually think about the things i love and doing them for me.


yeah, but did it REALLY work? how many times can you say "nevermind" before your partner gets frustrated?


ljtseng said:


> you know, i was just thinking, if she's said a thousand times that she wants 'fireworks' take her out and give her fireworks. no, really. real fireworks.


THAT is BRILLIANT! seriously. make the effort, get some fireworks.


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## Johnny Drama (Nov 25, 2008)

Actually her response would be that this is a problem that we have had forever. That is her main reason for wanting to separate now, she feels like this is well traveled ground.

As part of my discussions with her I acknowledged this is not anything new, and it is a mutual feeling. I feel like we got into some type of weird area where we lost track of how to be that special person for each other. Interesting enough, in my letter to her Mom (whom she has gone to see for the Thanksgiving Holiday with our kids), I state that this is the very element I know we need to do a better job on. I've said it to my wife as well. Each time met with the same response, too little too late.

I hate talking in analogies but here is one I have used with her that I feel is appropriate: I feel like we are both standing on the side of a pool and are trying to make the decision to jump in and swim to the other side. Think of the other side as where we want to be in a happy marriage. But the only way we can get there is by holding hands and jumping in together. I can't jump in first and tell her if the water is warm and hope she'll eventually join me.

I can't audition for the job of husband. I want to try and work on this but I have to be given the chance without the idea of "oh, we'll see how long this lasts." I become the guy who sends flowers after his wife says he never does, you know?

Hence the title of this post. I want to fix it but the most painful thing I think is to be told that the other person doesn't want you anymore. And then I ask myself, can I live with the doubt for the rest of my life as to whether or not we really ever get passed this. Don't I deserve soemone who will love me back and not make me feel like I am one wrong move away from having this happen all over again?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Johnny Drama said:


> I can't jump in first and tell her if the water is warm and hope she'll eventually join me.


Well, you can. you just dont want to. 



Johnny Drama said:


> I want to fix it but the most painful thing I think is to be told that the other person doesn't want you anymore. And then I ask myself, can I live with the doubt for the rest of my life as to whether or not we really ever get passed this. Don't I deserve soemone who will love me back and not make me feel like I am one wrong move away from having this happen all over again?


I think i get what you are saying. i dont know how i would react if my H told me he was leaving and had some other girl on the side. that would be really hard. she is certainly responsible for some of this. and if you feel unloved and feel you will always resent her for this, or wonder if she even loves you, then it would be hard to try and win her back. i guess you just have to decide what you want. dr.phil always says at some point in a relationship someone has to decide to be the hero. i struggle with this in my relationship. i always wonder why i have to be the one trying, why would i want to be with someone who isnt even really trying? but i cant sit in limbo. if i decide to stay with him, i have to ask myself what kind of person do i want to be? the answer to that question is completely free of the kind of person he is being. 

i think you should definitely give yourself some time to decide what you want.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Johnny Drama said:


> Actually her response would be that this is a problem that we have had forever. That is her main reason for wanting to separate now, she feels like this is well traveled ground.


all that is is a more literate, elaborate way to say "nevermind, i've told you this a thousand times."



Johnny Drama said:


> I feel like we got into some type of weird area where we lost track of how to be that special person for each other. Interesting enough, in my letter to her Mom (whom she has gone to see for the Thanksgiving Holiday with our kids), I state that this is the very element I know we need to do a better job on. I've said it to my wife as well. Each time met with the same response, too little too late.


too little, too late is not a rare response. again, in the art of communication, she has told you very inefficiently how she'd like things to be.


Johnny Drama said:


> I hate talking in analogies but here is one I have used with her that I feel is appropriate: I feel like we are both standing on the side of a pool and are trying to make the decision to jump in and swim to the other side. Think of the other side as where we want to be in a happy marriage. But the only way we can get there is by holding hands and jumping in together. I can't jump in first and tell her if the water is warm and hope she'll eventually join me.


why not? jump in first, tell her the water's comfortable. human nature is wanting to know the outcome first. plus you'll learn something about the water that may help her swim better.


Johnny Drama said:


> I can't audition for the job of husband. I want to try and work on this but I have to be given the chance without the idea of "oh, we'll see how long this lasts." I become the guy who sends flowers after his wife says he never does, you know?


buddy, we audition every day.


Johnny Drama said:


> I want to fix it but the most painful thing I think is to be told that the other person doesn't want you anymore. And then I ask myself, can I live with the doubt for the rest of my life as to whether or not we really ever get passed this. Don't I deserve soemone who will love me back and not make me feel like I am one wrong move away from having this happen all over again?


the pain is there because someone wants you to never forget how fragile it can be, and to never take the relationship for granted. the pain will remind you.


good luck.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Johnny Drama said:


> My wife and I have been married for 13 years with 3 children under the age of 12.
> 
> ...
> 
> I'm not going to leave the house I have worked for (she has not had a job in the last 11 years) my entire life.


3 kids under 12--I'm pretty sure she has a tough job too 



Johnny Drama said:


> I feel like we got into some type of weird area where we lost track of how to be that special person for each other.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


I've had these same feelings myself (doubting if I was really loved in return or how long it would last)...but at some point I just decided that all relationships end...if not by choice, by death so why not work on the one I am committed to? You cannot control how she's feeling and you should not live your life walking on eggshells, scrambling to please her or trying to make her love you as much as you love her.

The only thing that works, in my opinion, is loving her simply because you do and showing her by your actions...not forced like buy her flowers every Wednesday but when you think of her and smile do something right then to pass that thought along to her...kids (although a major blessing  ) can easily cause couples to lose focus on each other...did you stop dating & doing things as a couple when the kids came along? This is something that my husband and I started doing a little over a year ago (my husband was in a very similar place your wife is right now) and it has really helped us to stay connected and have fun being together.

Have you read 'The 5 Love Languages'? It does speak about the fireworks and how that can be replaced with a deeper love (not as exciting, but much stronger bond) and the shelf-life for fireworks is 2 years max...so even if she feels it now with her male friend, it won't stand the test of time. It might be a good read for you both.


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## Johnny Drama (Nov 25, 2008)

swedish said:


> 3 kids under 12--I'm pretty sure she has a tough job too
> 
> Absolutely...I didn't mean to imply that it isn't. The statement had more to do with the financial options she has right now to leave the house and move somewhere else.
> 
> ...


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Johnny Drama said:


> The question becomes how do you work on anything if one person wants to and the other doesn't. I feel like right now the only reason she even says separation and not divorce is that the state requires it first. It makes me feel like a total failure.


that's the reason the state requires separation first. at your hearing, request the judge imposes counseling. she doesn't HAVE TO do it, but she'll be more inclined if the judge makes his case to her. she may get into counseling and find things out about herself that she did not know.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Johnny Drama said:


> did you stop dating & doing things as a couple when the kids came along?


I have 3 kids also (18, 15 & 13)...met their dad in high school...together 19 years, divorced 10. Remarried 7 years ago and with my ex, yes we stopped dating even before that.


Johnny Drama said:


> This is interesting. I think we both went into a mode of playing a role of parents. As if not focusing on each other was some sign of maturity...like we were able to give love to our little ones and didn't need to show each other.
> ...
> The question becomes how do you work on anything if one person wants to and the other doesn't. I feel like right now the only reason she even says separation and not divorce is that the state requires it first. It makes me feel like a total failure.


This is so common but not a good thing for marriages...if you keep your relationship with your wife strong the kids will still have all they need.

The issue you have now is her male friend. It has the signs of an emotional affair and is most likely filling a void she felt within your marriage (feeling loved, appreciated, etc.) As long as she continues to get that from him, it will cloud her thinking and she will be less apt to want to do any work within the marriage.

At this point, putting that in her face and talking to her parents may only backfire and push her further away and closer to him if she seeks him out for support. The best thing you can do in this situation is to do things for yourself, have fun with your kids & be a happy, loving dad and man and give her space to figure things out. If it were me (and it was a year ago) I would and did say I did not feel we could work on our marriage if his female 'friend' remained in the picture. Fortunately, my husband agreed and ended the friendship. This is very difficult for many to do in this situation as they feel this friend is the only one who truly understands how they feel and makes them feel validated.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Johnny Drama said:


> It makes me feel like a total failure.


And save this thinking for venting in here...don't walk the walk of a failure...you only fail if you fail to give it all you've got and you are here so that's a start...it ain't over yet


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## Johnny Drama (Nov 25, 2008)

swedish said:


> The issue you have now is her male friend. It has the signs of an emotional affair and is most likely filling a void she felt within your marriage (feeling loved, appreciated, etc.) As long as she continues to get that from him, it will cloud her thinking and she will be less apt to want to do any work within the marriage.
> 
> At this point, putting that in her face and talking to her parents may only backfire and push her further away and closer to him if she seeks him out for support. The best thing you can do in this situation is to do things for yourself, have fun with your kids & be a happy, loving dad and man and give her space to figure things out. If it were me (and it was a year ago) I would and did say I did not feel we could work on our marriage if his female 'friend' remained in the picture. Fortunately, my husband agreed and ended the friendship. This is very difficult for many to do in this situation as they feel this friend is the only one who truly understands how they feel and makes them feel validated.


I couldn't agree with you more. I told her that if we did decide to work on things then it had to be just us. If not, any time in the future I would have to worry if she has him lurking in the background somewhere. I don't want to be the guy who is always suspicious of everything. 

I also think that I have said everything I can right now to her and her family. Anything else risks pissing her off more and makes me look weak and desperate.

I haven't mentioned yet that she never mentioned this guy to me when she discussed separation. I found this out on my own accidentally when I saw on the computer screen an e-mail from him. The history of the conversation stated that his birthday was on the 19th of November and how sorry she was that she couldn't give him his "present" (her quotations, not mine) in person.

His response? "That's okay babe".

When I write it out I can't believe this is going on. I never intended to be the type of guy who would even consider living with a situation like this.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Johnny Drama said:


> I never intended to be the type of guy who would even consider living with a situation like this.


Been there, said that (except the 'guy' part  ) The thing is, you need to keep your boundaries in check...by saying you could only work on things with her if it's just the two of you, that's exactly what you are doing...you will not be plan 'b' or agree to some half-a$$ed attempt at working on your marriage. 

You cannot control what she decides to do based on this, but you are not being a doormat here...you are doing your best to honor your vows during a difficult time by wanting to work through the issues as an honorable father, husband and man...nothing bad in that.


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## Johnny Drama (Nov 25, 2008)

ljtseng said:


> Well, you can. you just dont want to.
> 
> I respectfully disagree here. In my opinion, unless the 2 people want to have the marriage succeed and are both willing to try, they are doomed. Sure, I could show my efforts and not wait for her to reciprocate. But that is short lived. I think it is a fast rack to resentment. As I've said, I want this to work and want to fix it. Right now, she doesn't.
> 
> I don't think I have unreasonable expectations. If we are going to fix things then we need to fix them. Ultimately, either she decides to give us a chance or she doesn't. I can't want it badly enough for both of us. It's funny...I've only been able to come to that conclusion in the past couple of days.


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## rogerisright (Nov 28, 2008)

One person can make a difference JD ... take the Love Dare ! It's the one person program you can't miss with ... but the firs thing you need to do is start to believe that you can achieve your goals because unless you beliebve you will be succesful then you probably wont be ...stiop the negative inner voice talk ,...get positive ... get the love dare and throw your heart and soul into it ....and watch her change ...and when she wants to come back or starts to hint that she wants to come home ...play hard to get and only let it happen on your terms ... if you flop and let her come back with no lesson learned then you are doing her and your marriage a disservicve 

good luck


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Roger, you are a disgusting womanizer. Are you sure you aren't my First husband?:rofl:


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## invisable1 (Feb 9, 2009)

Reading this is Kinda Deja-vue... Im married 3 kids under 13, and she keeps telling me That she wants to leave... I don't feel so alone anymore, thanks for sharing..


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