# Porn 'victim"



## WoolyMammoth

I have been reading some of these threads and find them very interesting. My heart goes out to many who are struggling. 

3 weeks ago I found my husband of almost 28 years watching porn on the internet. I think my response surprised both of us. I was shattered, and hugely distressed that he would prefer THAT to a living breathing me. It is disrespectful to me and all other decent women out there (and I'm no prude). 

We hashed it out and have made a lot of progress. Luckily we have a solid marriage and the ability to communicate, but it has not been easy and I am still not sure that he realizes exactly what a huge deal it was to me. Mostly at this point I am struggling with trust. I want to believe that he will do as he promises and stop this activity, but being human I have that little niggle of doubt. I have done a lot of reading about the subject which is how I ended up here. It is not a subject that I would feel comfortable discussing with ANYONE IRL, or even on other boards that I frequent. 

I guess I'm just really joining in and not lurking.


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## eyuop

WoolyMammoth said:


> 3 weeks ago I found my husband of almost 28 years watching porn on the internet. I think my response surprised both of us. I was shattered, and hugely distressed that he would prefer THAT to a living breathing me. It is disrespectful to me and all other decent women out there (and I'm no prude).


This is a typical response from a wife. It is normal to feel the way you are feeling (disrespected, invalidated, etc.). Your feelings are absolutely valid, but as a man I can confidently tell you that your interpretation of what porn means to your husband is flat out wrong. 

Your response is the exact same reason I haven't told my wife yet of my own struggle with porn. Your response only surprised him because he doesn't prefer THAT to you. I've known very few men who actually prefer porn to their living, breathing wives. I don't prefer THAT to my wife at all. My wife is amazing, beautiful and way more attractive to me than porn. But she is lower drive than I am (sexually) and although she gets all of the sex she needs (she has told me that many times -- that she is very satisfied with our sex life) I do not get all the sex I need. She expects me to simply be like her and want it when she wants it. That's like saying to someone who really needs to eat three times a day to only eat once a day like them (because that is all they need -- once a day).

So to supplement my sex drive I masturbated to porn. Almost every day. Not because I didn't love and appreciate my wife. Not because I didn't enjoy sex with her. Not because I was trying to be disrespectful, or demeaning. Not for any other reason than simply I wasn't getting enough sex and I needed an additional outlet. That's all it was. I wasn't comparing her, I wasn't even thinking at all that I would rather have some porn girl than her, etc. Never crossed my mind one time.

If you want to read my story to understand what your husband is going through/thinking, go to "I want porn out of my life" in this forum.

Why does any of this matter? Because if you think for one second that the reason your husband is watching porn is because he "prefers THAT over you" you need to read more threads on TAM from the man's perspective or ask men what they are thinking. Because chances are, he doesn't prefer anything over you.

Just think of what his reaction would have been if he caught you looking at porn. I'll bet it would have been a lot different.


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## richie33

I guess if a woman likes porn herself she isn't decent. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WoolyMammoth

richie33 said:


> I guess if a woman likes porn herself she isn't decent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe she considers herself decent, but if its distressing her partner then it is wrong. As a general rule i consider internet porn degrading and demeaning to women. I do believe I am entitled to that opinion. If other men and women think its OK - thats something they have to justify for themselves (and I'm sure they can) 

Thanks Eyuop...I have read your threads and while I appreciate your POV - I don't agree with it much :scratchhead:I am very black or white in my viewpoint. It is me or "them".

Anyway - I think we'll be OK. We have had many, many talks about the situation. I didn't stay married to this man for almost 3 decades because he's an uncaring dolt...and he didn't stay married to me because I don't care for him or his needs. We're lucky, and I will fight tooth and nail for our marriage, and that includes ramping up my ability to trust.

I really appreciate being able to read everyones experiences.


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## EnjoliWoman

Is internet porn more degrading that DVD porn? Or photographic porn? I realize the mode of viewing was internet - just curious as to why the differentiation.


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## eyuop

WoolyMammoth said:


> Thanks Eyuop...I have read your threads and while I appreciate your POV - I don't agree with it much :scratchhead:


That's because you don't understand men, then. In other words, you don't believe me when I say the things I say because you would never feel that way (as a women). Until you can believe what men say (and not try to process everything they say through your own black/white grid) you will never make any progress in understanding your spouse. That's just the facts, ma'am.


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## eyuop

ozymandias said:


> BTW, you've posted in the addiction forum. Do you think your husband is an addict? Does he consume porn compulsively? Has it replaced significant parts of your marital intimacy? Has he lost a job over it? Do you think he wants to quit using porn but can't?


Very good questions.:iagree:


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## Mr B

Porn can save marriages as well as split people apart.

I actually credit porn for keeping me in my marriage and under the same roof as my kids. My married sex life died 15 years ago and despite visits to a number of therapists the problem couldn't be fixed. Rather than getting a divorce or cheating on my wife by having an affair or paying for sex I masturbate while looking at porn. It isn't perfect but it is worth being able to live with my kids and be part of a family. Other than the sex my wife and I get along just fine so porn has been an effective and simple solution.

I have come across many stories like mine online over the years. Men in sexless marriages who use porn as their only sexual outlet rather than seeking sex outside the home. I think porn has perhaps kept as many marriages together, if not more, than it has split them apart.


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## terrence4159

love how porn is always the problem. i have a great sex life and watch porn....my wife watches porn we sometime talk about what websites are the best.


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## Wing Man

I am 8 years into a marriage and the last 3 have really cooled off sexually, and it's not me because I am as horny as I've ever been since the first year but my wife has become a cold fish and her sexual cravings have tapered off a lot. So it wasn't until I got turned down for sex like the 20th time that I started checking out porn behind her back(because she detests porn), and now it kind of feels like I am married but when it comes to sex I'm.....still single.


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## kimd

If porn replaces sex that is a problem. However many times it adds some excitement to a relationship. My husband and I do enjoy watching porn at times, but it has not harmed our relationship or sex with each other.


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## clipclop2

I have a question. If you aren't getting enough money from your job is out ok to steal? Is out ok to take something from someone else?

Saying you aren't getting enough sex do it is ok to watch porn first of all flies in the face of the suggestion that porn is not akin to sex. Masturbation in place of the sex you aren't having says that masturbation is like sex. 

None of this is unrelated. It is utter bull when men say it has no reflection on their wives or sex. 

Men are so dishonest here they should have to turn in their "logical " card. Scientists? Hardly. 

What you give to someone or something else you cannot give to your spouse. If you save it for them it will be that much better. If you give it away it's impact and value diminishes.

Sexual desire and response is not unlimited. All of our resources are finite. 

Blah, blah, blah. I know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movealong

Yea... blah, blah, blah. Your values have no meaning to me when it comes to staying in my marriage. If I have to masturbate between the times that my spouse and I have sex to get some kind of relief, then so be it. I have a good imagination and don't "need" porn, but it sure does help to get'r done.


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## mablenc

Well, good luck your forced him to make a promise to you by guilting him to do it. That hardly works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wing Man

movealong said:


> Yea... blah, blah, blah. Your values have no meaning to me when it comes to staying in my marriage. If I have to masturbate between the times that my spouse and I have sex to get some kind of relief, then so be it. I have a good imagination and don't "need" porn, but it sure does help to get'r done.


AMEN! :smthumbup:


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## John Lee

Does porn somehow make masturbation worse or is this really about masturbation? Is a woman on a screen worse than a woman in your mind? 

For me, masturbation is kind of an imperfect compromise -- like a lot of men here, I just have more drive for sex than my wife does. She's always tired from her crazy schedule. But if I don't have some kind of sexual release on a regular basis, I get agitated, my mind wanders, every woman I see starts to seem attractive, etc. All that stuff is bad for me and my family, so masturbating is a way of keeping things under control. There's no risk in it -- I don't develop feelings or attachments to the women in porn, it's free, it doesn't lead to STDs. It also kind of feeds my need for occasional variety. Think of men as being like heroin addicts with sex, and porn is like methadone administered by a doctor -- a safe alternative that keeps them out of harm, even if the situation is imperfect.

I know a lot of men who never cheat, but somehow I've never met this mythical man who does not masturbate.


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## Wing Man

John Lee said:


> Does porn somehow make masturbation worse or is this really about masturbation? Is a woman on a screen worse than a woman in your mind?
> 
> For me, masturbation is kind of an imperfect compromise -- like a lot of men here, I just have more drive for sex than my wife does. She's always tired from her crazy schedule. But if I don't have some kind of sexual release on a regular basis, I get agitated, my mind wanders, every woman I see starts to seem attractive, etc. All that stuff is bad for me and my family, so masturbating is a way of keeping things under control. There's no risk in it -- I don't develop feelings or attachments to the women in porn, it's free, it doesn't lead to STDs. It also kind of feeds my need for occasional variety. Think of men as being like heroin addicts with sex, and porn is like methadone administered by a doctor -- a safe alternative that keeps them out of harm, even if the situation is imperfect.
> 
> I know a lot of men who never cheat, but somehow I've never met this mythical man who does not masturbate.


WELL SAID AND 100% ACCURATE JOHN! :smthumbup:


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## notmarriedyet

movealong said:


> Yea... blah, blah, blah. Your values have no meaning to me when it comes to staying in my marriage. If I have to masturbate between the times that my spouse and I have sex to get some kind of relief, then so be it. I have a good imagination and don't "need" porn, but it sure does help to get'r done.


But what if your spouse is always ready, willing, and able?

Is it ok for that spouse to be upset with you masturbating when she could be getting that action instead?

That's my problem. I want action ALL THE TIME. literally. So when he chooses to MB it pisses me off, I want that erection. I want that orgasm. 

So, am I right to be pissed in my situation, where my H would rather MB to porn or whatever else, instead of fulfilling my desire?

Because he's never been turned down. I have been turned down, only to discover that he's relieved himself. So, what about women like me?

Maybe I should just start MBing exclusively and when he wants some i shall just say, "no thanks". Charlie Hunnam already got me off tonight honey.


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## richie33

Maybe you should. What's good for the goose........


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## Wing Man

notmarriedyet said:


> But what if your spouse is always ready, willing, and able?
> 
> Is it ok for that spouse to be upset with you masturbating when she could be getting that action instead?
> 
> That's my problem. I want action ALL THE TIME. literally. So when he chooses to MB it pisses me off, I want that erection. I want that orgasm.
> 
> So, am I right to be pissed in my situation, where my H would rather MB to porn or whatever else, instead of fulfilling my desire?
> 
> Because he's never been turned down. I have been turned down, only to discover that he's relieved himself. So, what about women like me?
> 
> Maybe I should just start MBing exclusively and when he wants some i shall just say, "no thanks". Charlie Hunnam already got me off tonight honey.


Mine already made it clear that I am "cut off" and will only allow sex to happen when and only when SHE wants it to(which is not very often anymore).


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## PieceOfSky

notmarriedyet said:


> But what if your spouse is always ready, willing, and able?
> 
> Is it ok for that spouse to be upset with you masturbating when she could be getting that action instead?
> 
> That's my problem. I want action ALL THE TIME. literally. So when he chooses to MB it pisses me off, I want that erection. I want that orgasm.
> 
> So, am I right to be pissed in my situation, where my H would rather MB to porn or whatever else, instead of fulfilling my desire?
> 
> Because he's never been turned down. I have been turned down, only to discover that he's relieved himself. So, what about women like me?
> 
> Maybe I should just start MBing exclusively and when he wants some i shall just say, "no thanks". Charlie Hunnam already got me off tonight honey.


Of course it is ok for you to be upset. Why wouldn't it be? I would expect anyone in your situation to be.

Now imagine you were MBing, and he stumbled by not even thinking of wanting sex from you, and he ASSUMED and took offense that you would want THAT over him. And then he pressured and shamed you to promise to never do that again.

For me, that would be the beginning of the end.


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## movealong

notmarriedyet said:


> But what if your spouse is always ready, willing, and able?
> 
> Is it ok for that spouse to be upset with you masturbating when she could be getting that action instead?
> 
> That's my problem. I want action ALL THE TIME. literally. So when he chooses to MB it pisses me off, I want that erection. I want that orgasm.
> 
> So, am I right to be pissed in my situation, where my H would rather MB to porn or whatever else, instead of fulfilling my desire?
> 
> Because he's never been turned down. I have been turned down, only to discover that he's relieved himself. So, what about women like me?
> 
> Maybe I should just start MBing exclusively and when he wants some i shall just say, "no thanks". Charlie Hunnam already got me off tonight honey.


You have a right to feel the way you do in any situation, not just when it comes to masturbating. The issue presents when it becomes a problem for one or both of you. 

I have a problem in that I do not have intimate relations with my wife nearly as often as my needs arise. My resolution to the issue, because I love and want to stay with my wife, is to take care of my business when she is not willing.

My situation is quite different from yours. My alcoholism drove her away from me in that area. She was never what I would call a sexual vixen, but it was once or twice a week until my alcoholism caused it to start tapering off. Now, because of my own self reflection, I am no longer pressuring her. I am also working my program of recovery to be a better, sober, man. I understand that it may never be the once or twice a week that it used to be, but until I no longer love her, or until she decides she no longer loves me, my sexual needs play a second fiddle. 

In the situation you describe, I would be angry, hurt, resentful, and may very well contemplate ending the relationship. I can't speak to what I would actually do because that is not my situation. You need to do what is best for YOU regardless of anything else. If the love outweighs the problem, stay. If the love does not outweigh the problem, leave. If you think the problem can be resolved, work on it.

Hypothetical scenarios are just that, hypothetical. Do what you need to do for YOU.


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## ladybird

notmarriedyet said:


> But what if your spouse is always ready, willing, and able?
> 
> Is it ok for that spouse to be upset with you masturbating when she could be getting that action instead?
> 
> That's my problem. I want action ALL THE TIME. literally. So when he chooses to MB it pisses me off, I want that erection. I want that orgasm.
> 
> So, am I right to be pissed in my situation, where my H would rather MB to porn or whatever else, instead of fulfilling my desire?
> 
> Because he's never been turned down. I have been turned down, only to discover that he's relieved himself. So, what about women like me?
> 
> Maybe I should just start MBing exclusively and when he wants some i shall just say, "no thanks". Charlie Hunnam already got me off tonight honey.


 I am in the same boat =(


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## lenzi

WoolyMammoth said:


> 3 weeks ago I found my husband of almost 28 years watching porn on the internet. I think my response surprised both of us. I was shattered, and hugely distressed that he would prefer THAT to a living breathing me.


Your response was over the top. Lots of people watch porn, it's not necessarily a bad thing. 

Just because he watches it doesn't mean he "prefers it". It's a change of pace, something different.

I like steak but sometimes I eat seafood. Doesn't mean I like one better than the other. 

It's called "variety". Keeps life interesting.


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## PBear

To me, masturbating to porn was like stopping at 7/11 cause you have the munchies and are broke. It solves the immediate need. Sex (with a warm willing partner) is like going to a restaurant. Anywhere from McDonalds to a 5 star steakhouse. I also resorted to porn on a regular basis in my marriage, because I didn't have a willing partner. Once I met my current SO, the only time I watch porn is when I'm with her. If I have to go a few days without sex for some bizzare reason, it just makes the reunion more fun. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wing Man

PBear said:


> To me, masturbating to porn was like stopping at 7/11 cause you have the munchies and are broke. It solves the immediate need. Sex (with a warm willing partner) is like going to a restaurant. Anywhere from McDonalds to a 5 star steakhouse. I also resorted to porn on a regular basis in my marriage, because I didn't have a willing partner. Once I met my current SO, the only time I watch porn is when I'm with her. If I have to go a few days without sex for some bizzare reason, it just makes the reunion more fun.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Same here; because when I was previously married or in other relationships and the sex was good and consistent, I never even gave porn a second thought.


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## hawk1981

WoolyMammoth said:


> I have been reading some of these threads and find them very interesting. My heart goes out to many who are struggling.
> 
> 3 weeks ago I found my husband of almost 28 years watching porn on the internet. I think my response surprised both of us. I was shattered, and hugely distressed that he would prefer THAT to a living breathing me. It is disrespectful to me and all other decent women out there (and I'm no prude).
> 
> We hashed it out and have made a lot of progress. Luckily we have a solid marriage and the ability to communicate, but it has not been easy and I am still not sure that he realizes exactly what a huge deal it was to me. Mostly at this point I am struggling with trust. I want to believe that he will do as he promises and stop this activity, but being human I have that little niggle of doubt. I have done a lot of reading about the subject which is how I ended up here. It is not a subject that I would feel comfortable discussing with ANYONE IRL, or even on other boards that I frequent.
> 
> I guess I'm just really joining in and not lurking.


As a guy I have to agree that the grand majority of us will almost always prefer our partner over porn, always! But I do think you need to understand that the porn is not about you. I know that's hard to hear, but it's not about you, or what you do in bed, or look like, etc. (at least it's not for most men). Sex and porn and two different things for most men. Porn is akin to shaving for many men, it's meaningless, but rarely would we feel the same about sex. I would strongly urge you to believe him when/if he says he loves you and wants to give up the porn, etc. but you also have every right to say you are more important than him looking at porn.

My wife felt porn was an absolute no go, so I tried to stop on my own and supplement with Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition type stuff. That was the same in her mind. That part made me come unglued; she could watch America's Next Top Model with guys dancing around topless, etc. but I couldn't look at other sexy ladies? That's absurd! Secondly she refused to have sex with me (or so was my excuse). The reality was porn, while consumed on a weekly/semi-monthly basis, helped me escape the reality of life in a very simple way. I'm guessing you have your ways as well. For me it became the sole escape, or at least the goto escape of choice! I personally believe that is what it is for many men, and for all the guys in my group it has nothing to do with their wife's. Please doubt he can just give it up, I doubt he can, porn is everywhere and easy to find. But please also doubt the weight that your mind is trying to place on what it means to him. It may be akin to him sleeping with other women, at least to you (it was to my wife), but don't be surprised if it's about as important as shaving to him. Your values & perceptions are not his and you each have to respect each other's perspective.

Lastly, I would strongly suggest finding someone to talk to about this in real life. My wife found a friend to chat with and I credit her for helping my wife open up a little about her feelings. Try to trust him, he'll likely really struggle to give it up (the porn), but if you try to connect with him (in a safe way, you can't and aren't obligated to save him in anyway) it will make it easier.


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## Wing Man

A lot of times guys are just simply in the mood to "get it on"(ala Marvin Gaye)and we don't feel like begging or going through an hour of foreplay, so we throw on some porn - get all heated up - and take care of business.


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## zookeeper

This topic is difficult because so many who respond are so fixated on their own situation that they cannot look at this in a objective manner. 

Sorry if any of this has been covered already but:

OP: What is your sex life like now? Does your husband complain to you about the frequency or quality of sex with you? Do you initiate or is it always him? Are you the sexual gatekeeper and sex only occurs on your terms? 

If so, I would say that his mastrubating to porn would seem acceptable. He has made a commitment to share sex only with you. If you do not meet his needs and he is honorable enough not to cheat, what else would you expect him to do? No one gets to tell the other person that their needs are stupid, shameful, excessive, etc. if his sexual needs outstrip your ability to meet, it may be time to talk about moving on.

If you, like the other poster above are not having your sexual needs met by him despite being available and eager and he is masturbating to porn instead...there's a problem. That would be I credibly selfish on his part and you would have every right to be upset and enforce a boundary.

See, without knowing the back story, people tend to super-impose their own situation and as you can see we often have quite a bit of anger and resentment tied to us. I do not believe porn in and of itself is any better or worse than romance novels or Twilight movies. It's all fantasy and as such can be good, bad or neutral depending upon the situation. 

Can you share more of the background so we can have a better understanding?


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## DvlsAdvc8

Wing Man said:


> A lot of times guys are just simply in the mood to "get it on"(ala Marvin Gaye)and we don't feel like begging or going through an hour of foreplay, so we throw on some porn - get all heated up - and take care of business.


ha... this is true. Even though most M for me was because my ex wasn't interested, there are still some times when you just want a quick O without all the fuss and having sex as such would just be bad sex.

If the woman is willing though, I don't care much for porn. Maybe once in a blue moon, eye candy sort of thing... but never in replacement for a real body.


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## SimplyAmorous

The thing is ... PORN is like one of those issues we must confront...ask questions and be honest with each other *BEFORE* we marry...this is for the best.

My question to you WoolyMammoth is this... do you EVER reject him sexually? Headaches, too tired , too busy with the kids? 

The level of Testosterone men have to deal with in their younger years is not something the majority of us women UNDERSTAND or could relate to (I know I didn't back then)....They have 10 times + more than women flowing through their bodies, this is our lust hormone... a man's need and antisiness for action is a pretty strong force... 

Forcing him to give this up without hearing him or trying to understand him.... I can almost guarantee you, he will just start *HIDING IT BETTER*... this will not work...when we are forced into a corner, some will fight and some will just comply, alter their ways and do as to not get caught and put in the dog house. This hampers honest / open communications to understand , compromise and resolve. 

I have a book suggestion for you....to read together >>








Love and Pornography: Dealing with Porn and Saving your Relationship: Books









It was written by a husband AND WIFE ....who decided to hear each other out ..no matter how painful.... with the determination to understand each others feelings ... Far too many women feel this way and they put up a wall without even listening to the husband... very very sad .  In fact it's destructive. 

This couple has WALKED your shoes... this wife can relate to every perceived hurt a woman feels .....but also this man will be able to explain the allure in porn -but also that doesn't mean a man fails to love & cherish his wife at the same time......it goes both ways.... and every couple owes it to themselves to UNDERSTAND the other .... Addiction to porn & using it over a wife is another issue entirely -not what this book is about. 

I bought the book for pure curiosity.... I didn't read it to the end, but I believe the husband gives it up willingly, *not out of compulsion, threats or fear tactics from his wife....but only after he FELT HEARD by her....how utterly important... and he heard her side as well*. 

Far too many women JUMP like a crazy person when they hear their men have looked at some porn.... I got a little too religious at one time & had my day of over-reacting -when I would find files on his computer (my husbands looking was almost on the TAME side...Playboy bunnies)... I'd post scriptures on his desktop, I think I cried a little bit..but he never denied me & was at my beck & call ... couldn't ask for a better husband. Now I let him look at anything he wants...and we watch porn together ! 

It is a rare rare man who doesn't slip a little porn now & then, even if they are his convictions. One of man's greatest battles. >> Every religious man worth any salt knows this - why such books have been written >> 

Every Man's Battle: Winning the War on Sexual Temptation One Victory at a Time ...


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## clipclop2

So better to embrace it than to fight it? 

God, so what if she turns him down now and then? Now and then. Not for days and weeks at a time, but now and then. 

I don't see what the amount of testosterone has to do with it. There are a lot of low T men that consume porn. What's their excuse?

Porn is cheap and easy. Porn is lazy. Porn damages the brain's response to flesh and blood sex. It encourages masturbation that might not otherwise occur and that can also impact sexual functioning. 

While i realize occasional porn use isn't the end of the world, i don't think giving in to it makes things better. 

How much porn does you're husband consume without you? That you aren't aware of? I wonder if you think you are controlling the situation so you feel better about porn. What if you are wrong and you have just given him more access to it. You think it is all out in the open and that he only uses it occasionally because that's all you see. What aren't you seeing? He can still hide it from you. 

It is so easy to cover up it is sad. 

I don't think embracing it does one damn thing except increase porn use.


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## over20

eyuop said:


> That's because you don't understand men, then. In other words, you don't believe me when I say the things I say because you would never feel that way (as a women). Until you can believe what men say (and not try to process everything they say through your own black/white grid) you will never make any progress in understanding your spouse. That's just the facts, ma'am.


Eyop is completely correct. As a wife I did not understand how porn viewing and sex with the wife can kept totally separate to a husband. It can. Hence the difference between men and women. As a woman it goes against every fiber of being in our body. Our hearts and minds are wrapped up with sex. Not so with men. They can separate it all. As hard as it is, unless you are not meeting his sexual needs, his porn viewing has no reflection on you. Even Victoria Secret models, Playmates and porn stars husbands view or struggle with porn, and those are gorgeous women!!

Why don't you try the 30 day sex challenge with your husband??
You can go to the website and blog. Try wearing him out sexually!!!

Read and learn as much as you can about men's struggles with porn. There is a ton of info about it. Try reading "Every mans battle" by Steve Arterburn. Warning though it is really deep and brutally honest. 

Lastly I would apologize to him. Let him know you want to help him with his struggles. He does not need to be judged by his own wife.

Good Luck


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## over20

Forgot to mention that I am anti porn as well. I do understand men and how much they struggle and why they view it. I think my husband views from time to time on his phone. He has shared with me, because he knows I will not judge him, that porn struggles usually result from a trigger. For example if we have a fight, to much stress and when I was pregnant. 

By showing him grace, mercy and encouragement you will reach a place in his heart of deep trust.


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## over20

Mr B said:


> Porn can save marriages as well as split people apart.
> 
> I actually credit porn for keeping me in my marriage and under the same roof as my kids. My married sex life died 15 years ago and despite visits to a number of therapists the problem couldn't be fixed. Rather than getting a divorce or cheating on my wife by having an affair or paying for sex I masturbate while looking at porn. It isn't perfect but it is worth being able to live with my kids and be part of a family. Other than the sex my wife and I get along just fine so porn has been an effective and simple solution.
> 
> I have come across many stories like mine online over the years. Men in sexless marriages who use porn as their only sexual outlet rather than seeking sex outside the home. I think porn has perhaps kept as many marriages together, if not more, than it has split them apart.


You make a great point that I never thought of, thank you for sharing.

I feel for you, men in these situations deserve better


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## nuclearnightmare

EnjoliWoman said:


> Is internet porn more degrading that DVD porn? Or photographic porn? I realize the mode of viewing was internet - just curious as to why the differentiation.


Internet porn is much, much more addicting than any other form. On the internet the pictures and videos have no end. You can just keep clicking away trying to find ones more stimulating than previous ones. 

It is an addiction tion like any other. The addict is trying to escape personal pain of some kind.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

nuclearnightmare said:


> It is an addiction tion like any other. The addict is trying to escape personal pain of some kind.


Every teenage boy out there spanking to internet porn (which, trust me, is nearly all of them) is an addict escaping some personal pain? Really?

*some* people watch too much and are less interested/satisfied with flesh and blood sex. That isn't however a case against the average person's porn habits.

*some* people consume too much alcohol and become alcoholics. Do you also oppose having an occasional drink?

I'm not convinced the anti-porn thing is anything other than jealousy and control. ie - I want to control what you are allowed to see because I'm afraid you might like that more than me. What confuses me is that if you're happy with your sex life, why care that your partner watches porn when you don't want sex?


----------



## SurpriseMyself

Porn is ok if both spouses are ok with it and if it's not abused. Take drinking. If you and your spouse are both fine with consuming alcohol and don't abuse it, then there's no problem. Have a glass of wine or a beer! But if one spouse thinks drinking alcohol is bad and the other one drinks in the house, it could cause conflict depending on how strongly the spouse feels. My in laws are like this. My MIL had an alcoholic father, so she has never had a drop and refuses to have any alcohol in her home. My FIL drank when he was young, but gave it up for his wife. He chose his wife over alcohol. 

Same goes for porn. People can and do become addicted to it, especially online porn. Heard a radio show just today about this very topic. People can get so addicted that they look at online porn for 4 and 5 hours a day. For these people, looking at porn is so mind altering that they can't help themselves. Not everyone reacts this way, but if someone does, then it is an addiction and must be stopped. However, if it's just that your spouse hates it, then you might have to make a choice. My FIL did! Which do you chose?


----------



## nuclearnightmare

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Every teenage boy out there spanking to internet porn (which, trust me, is nearly all of them) is an addict escaping some personal pain? Really?
> 
> *some* people watch too much and are less interested/satisfied with flesh and blood sex. That isn't however a case against the average person's porn habits.
> 
> *some* people consume too much alcohol and become alcoholics. Do you also oppose having an occasional drink?
> 
> I'm not convinced the anti-porn thing is anything other than jealousy and control. ie - I want to control what you are allowed to see because I'm afraid you might like that more than me. What confuses me is that if you're happy with your sex life, why care that your partner watches porn when you don't want sex?


No what I mean is porn can be addictive, alcohol can be addictive, and IMO the internet itself can be VERY addictive. Am not saying that users of any of these are addicts, just that a certain percentage are. So then IF a person is in that unfortunate percentage - is addicted - then I don't distinguish between an alcoholic or a porn addict or an internet porn addict...in terms of why they have slipped into their addiction. all of them are essentially trying to escape their real world, at least for a little while. and obviously they'll want to keep escaping until that can face what their real issues with life are.


----------



## melw74

I watch porn, and my husband watches porn, sometimes we watch it together, and sometimes we watch it alone. I have never really seen a problem with it to be honest.... Its not cheating, even tho i have had this argument with a number of people.

I cant understand the comments that people make about it changes the way your partner looks at you.... I mean my husband does not compare, and he certainly does not love me any less, or think i am any less attractive in anyway, sometimes its a way of release for him.

If my husband is in the mood for sex, and i am not because i am totally knackered, I would prefer him to masturbate to relieve himself.

Half the time the person does not tell their partner they watch and enjoy porn because they're worried about the reaction they're going to get from them, so its easier to hide it...... Wrong of course, but they do.

Of course, if they're doing it every waking hour, paying no attention to you, and they're preferring to watch it than have sex with you, its then you have a problem.


----------



## hawkeye

nuclearnightmare said:


> Internet porn is much, much more addicting than any other form. On the internet the pictures and videos have no end. You can just keep clicking away trying to find ones more stimulating than previous ones.


I really only need about 5 minutes though.


----------



## melw74

hawkeye said:


> I really only need about 5 minutes though.


LOL...... Same here My husband and I will be watching a porno for all of ten mins if you get what i mean


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: Re: Porn 'victim"*



melw74 said:


> I watch porn, and my husband watches porn, sometimes we watch it together, and sometimes we watch it alone. I have never really seen a problem with it to be honest.... Its not cheating, even tho i have had this argument with a number of people.
> 
> I cant understand the comments that people make about it changes the way your partner looks at you.... I mean my husband does not compare, and he certainly does not love me any less, or think i am any less attractive in anyway,


How do you know this to be the absolute truth? 

A guy may be happy to have sex with his wife but that doesn't mean he doesn't think about the women in porn or compare you to them. 

Little fact about men and sex/porn: they lie even if they generally feel their SO is OK with what they have let them know. It is what you don't know that will bite you.


----------



## terrence4159

ok i watch porn my wife watchs porn we have a great sex life and we have even compared porn sites we have masturbated to when the other is not in the mood or her monthly visitor shows up. 

porn can be addictive no doubt but way to many times is it used as an escape goat. 

to say how do you not know the guy doesnt think about the women in porn and compare "you to them" 95% of guys live in this place called reality. i saw a ninja cut 75 people down with a sword today on mars with 1 eye.....doesnt make me think i can do that or its real (wish i could)


----------



## PBear

clipclop2 said:


> How do you know this to be the absolute truth?
> 
> A guy may be happy to have sex with his wife but that doesn't mean he doesn't think about the women in porn or compare you to them.
> 
> Little fact about men and sex/porn: they lie even if they generally feel their SO is OK with what they have let them know. It is what you don't know that will bite you.


Right... And women never fake orgasms or daydream about Bradley Cooper (or whoever the sexiest man of the year is) while their husband does his thing... 

Men AND women often lie about sex and their fantasies. 

C


----------



## clipclop2

I don't think 95% of men live in reality if they did they wouldn't use porn. Porn is an escape from reality. But it effects the perception of reality. 

People who insist otherwise are quite frankly delusional. Because though address not addicted doesn't mean you are not changed by it. 

Look back in 20 years and see what porn does to the upcoming generation. 

Go a few months without porn and see how your own sexual response changes for the better.


----------



## PBear

Btw... My SO is much more likely than I am to suggest pulling out the iPad and watching porn as foreplay. She also is the one that LOVES me talking her through a fantasy situation, usually involving multiple partners. And none of that takes away at all from my enjoyment of our sex life. 

C


----------



## PBear

Oh, and I'll also say that I was a daily solo porn user in my marriage, where my wife had cut me off sexually. Now that I'm in a sexually healthy relationship, our porn use is almost always together. Funny how that works... Keep your partner fed with good healthy meals every day, and they're not likely to go looking for junk food...

I'm not saying that porn addicts don't exist. Or people who would rather watch porn and masturbate than have sex with their frustrated partner. But it's like many vices... Gambling, drinking, etc... Most people can use in moderation without a problem. But some can't. Doesn't mean that those vices are evil for all people.

C


----------



## hawkeye

clipclop2 said:


> I don't think 95% of men live in reality if they did they wouldn't use porn. Porn is an escape from reality. But it effects the perception of reality.
> 
> People who insist otherwise are quite frankly delusional. Because though address not addicted doesn't mean you are not changed by it.
> 
> Look back in 20 years and see what porn does to the upcoming generation.
> 
> Go a few months without porn and see how your own sexual response changes for the better.


Holy balls, going to ruin a whole generation?  

Listen, I think for most guys porn is a means to an end. They want to rub one out and porn helps us do it faster. That's it.


----------



## melw74

clipclop2 said:


> How do you know this to be the absolute truth?
> 
> A guy may be happy to have sex with his wife but that doesn't mean he doesn't think about the women in porn or compare you to them.
> 
> Little fact about men and sex/porn: they lie even if they generally feel their SO is OK with what they have let them know. It is what you don't know that will bite you.


I know its the absolute truth if my husband tells me it is. Naive, No. I know i can turn my husband on and i know i i satisfy him in the bedroom.

I mean why would my husband feel the need to compare, I know what sort of thing my husband likes, and there is nothing he does not get that he wants sexually from me. I mean how could he compare me to a woman on a t.v screen???. I mean yes he could watch her giving a B.j etc, but then how could that be more of a turn on than getting the real thing from me???.

I know my husband thinks i am a very attractive woman, he loves me, hes married to me, he comes to bed with me every night..... so he likes to watch a bit of porn now and again..... hell we both do!!!!!.

You cant compare a woman on a screen to a woman in the flesh, so he may find them attractive, I am not naive to think that there is not another pretty woman out there that my hubby thinks is pretty..... I cant make him walk around with a blindfold on..... there is a lot of attractive men and women out there.... But like i say, its me who my husband is happily married to.

Oh and just for the record, there is nothing my husband needs to lie to me about, regarding porn or anything else, so i am not really worried about something biting me.


----------



## melw74

PBear said:


> Oh, and I'll also say that I was a daily solo porn user in my marriage, where my wife had cut me off sexually. Now that I'm in a sexually healthy relationship, our porn use is almost always together. Funny how that works... Keep your partner fed with good healthy meals every day, and they're not likely to go looking for junk food...
> 
> I'm not saying that porn addicts don't exist. Or people who would rather watch porn and masturbate than have sex with their frustrated partner. But it's like many vices... Gambling, drinking, etc... Most people can use in moderation without a problem. But some can't. Doesn't mean that those vices are evil for all people.
> 
> C


I really do not understand it when people say, the partner would RATHER watch porn than have the real thing. Like you said you and your partner mostly do it together..... Same as me and my husband, but yes sometimes he does watch it alone, but its so rare, but like i say its not something that bothers me.

I do still say its because the person can be a bit insecure is why they hate there partner watching it, and because of the compare issues, which i have to say is a bit ridiculous....... Its only fantasy.


----------



## melw74

clipclop2 said:


> I don't think 95% of men live in reality if they did they wouldn't use porn. Porn is an escape from reality. But it effects the perception of reality.
> 
> People who insist otherwise are quite frankly delusional. Because though address not addicted doesn't mean you are not changed by it.
> 
> Look back in 20 years and see what porn does to the upcoming generation.
> 
> Go a few months without porn and see how your own sexual response changes for the better.


We watched a porno together the other night. but we can go months before either of us could watch another one, and we have. Nothing has changed in the bedroom for us its not a NEED, its just something we both enjoy once in a while, Like cake.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

clipclop2 said:


> I don't think 95% of men live in reality if they did they wouldn't use porn. Porn is an escape from reality. But it effects the perception of reality.
> 
> People who insist otherwise are quite frankly delusional. Because though address not addicted doesn't mean you are not changed by it.


Ahem... reality is that they're grown men capable of deciding what they want to watch and do with their own bodies.



clipclop2 said:


> Look back in 20 years and see what porn does to the upcoming generation.


You're psychic now? That's your argument?

Men have always masturbated, and they've ALWAYS used female imagery when doing so. Whether its on the computer, or in the mind's eye... its ALWAYS been there. Where the perceptions of men 60 years ago damaged when they jerked off to what they imagined was beneath the clothes of the women they saw every day?

You know what's more damaging to male perceptions? Push-up bras. We should ban them. You know what else? Make-up. Let's ban that too. You don't want men to think that's reality right?  Where's the outrage? There's no outrage because you know this whole perceptions nonsense is a red-herring. Or better, a wedge in establishing a case against porn that isn't wrapped up in your own insecurities.



clipclop2 said:


> Go a few months without porn and see how your own sexual response changes for the better.


There is a subreddit dedicated to this purpose where guys pride themselves in how long they've gone without p or m. Some of these guys experience life changing results - the ones who had no self-control in the first place. Go there, read up, and you'll see the random guy with no real problems to begin with post his experience: nothing. I've done so myself voluntarily and involuntarily for months at a time at various times of my life, sometimes unintentionally. There's no difference one way or another. I wasn't *more* attracted to my ex when I wasn't watching porn, my sexual performance wasn't any different, and I wasn't chasing more real life sex instead. Nothing changed.

If one spends 5 hours a day looking at some fetish, yeah, he's probably going to have problems. If one spends 5 hours a day drinking, he's also probably going to have problems. The rest of the freaking world understands moderation and have no interest in going without alcohol or porn because *some* people have no sense of "enough". In all probability, these people will find something else to over do.

The average porn watcher is not escaping reality any more than a regular movie goer is escaping reality. Amazingly enough, my expectations that people can't fly isn't warped by my watching "Man of Steel" the other night. I grew up playing violent video games... am I violent? No. Do I perceive violence as acceptable? No. 

Hate to tell you this, but we enjoy seeing other clothed women too. Make sure to remind your guy that the sexy woman he just saw isn't real. You know boys who don't have access to porn will still jerk off to fully dressed hot girls on tv. This is somehow different? Should we just have our eyes gouged out to accommodate your insecurity so you feel like "enough"? Told what we can and can't do to our own bodies? Is this really a problem with porn? Is this really men's problem?

C'mon... the real issue here is jealousy. Simply envy and insecurity: "My husband likes looking at other women's naked bodies... which means I'm not enough." 

That is what is delusional. Just because we like Lamborghinis doesn't change our understanding of the reality that we'll likely never own one... nor create a belief that the family mini-van should be a Lamborghini. You'd probably like it if your husband was rich - does this mean what your husband does make isn't enough?

This porn thing is mostly in your own mind, and the most dysfunctional people possible, those who masturbate so much they have no drive for live sex or who can't be turned on without porn, are examples used to make your cases. This sort of reductio ad absurdum is a straw man.

We should not drink, because alcoholics.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

melw74 said:


> Like cake.


Ban cake... some people can't have just a little and as a result they get morbidly obese. It's like an addiction. Their perception of reality also gets distorted. Healthy food is no longer worth eating.


----------



## melw74

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Ban cake... some people can't have just a little and as a result they get morbidly obese. It's like an addiction. Their perception of reality also gets distorted. Healthy food is no longer worth eating.


Hahahaa, Just as well i do not really like cake anyway, what a bad example.


----------



## clipclop2

Pbear, I may have you confused but aren't you the guy who will risk your GF with a threesome but if she were a keeper would not? 

Aside from that, yeah, I get the connection between use and regular sex with many people. My suggestion is that our generation is different than those who experience sec through porn and then real sex second. You know add well as i do that things are changing 

I used drugs. Had sex in a variety of cinfugurstions... not a kid nor a prude. Porn as it is availsblr now vs how people of our generation and 10 years younger are defending it are harming your own kids and your grandkids. 

Do the people who are this defensive of porn have kids? 

Is this what they want for them?


If they have daughters, are they so hooked on poem that they don't see what young men will expect of their girls? 

This is the point i really don't get. 

Aren't they all someone's daughters?

Why is everyone so convinced their daughters are immune? 

My daughters are wickedly smart. I don't worry much about my oldest. But i still worry. She is a human being who can be led by her heart just as so many are lead into affairs... is there really a differences between debasing yourself for am affair and for a got who is into porn? They are still trying to buy something. 

The anti gets higher.


----------



## richie33

Are women the only people who do porn? Those men in the videos are someone's son.


----------



## lenzi

richie33 said:


> Are women the only people who do porn? Those men in the videos are someone's son.


So what that the people in the porn videos have parents?

What does that have to do with anything?


----------



## richie33

lenzi said:


> So what that the people in the porn videos have parents?
> 
> What does that have to do with anything?


Read the poster above me maybe she can explain it. I don't see what it has to do with the OP post.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

clipclop2 said:


> I used drugs. Had sex in a variety of cinfugurstions... not a kid nor a prude. Porn as it is availsblr now vs how people of our generation and 10 years younger are defending it are harming your own kids and your grandkids.
> 
> Do the people who are this defensive of porn have kids?
> 
> Is this what they want for them?
> 
> If they have daughters, are they so hooked on poem that they don't see what young men will expect of their girls?


What kind of porn are YOU talking about? Most porn I see is just people having relatively ordinary sex... but regardless, with or without porn one should not be pressuring another into sex acts they're not interested in. Porn doesn't make anyone do this.

I defend porn in the same manner I defend violent video games and alcohol. Just because Joe Bob can't trust himself not to become a 5 hour a day drunk spanking monkey who strong-arms his low self-esteem wife into sex acts that she doesn't want... doesn't mean the rest of us have that problem. Heck, that's not even the common problem referred to when porn is attacked. Its more commonly complained that the wife isn't getting any. All are abuse.

I have kids. I have a daughter. Porn isn't the villain. Abusive people are. This is the point you really don't get.



clipclop2 said:


> is there really a differences between debasing yourself for am affair and for a guy who is into porn?


The problem with your argument is that you are arguing from an assumption: that a person doing either is debasing themselves. You are projecting your mindset, but not everyone feels the same way about these things as you do. The only things debasing are doing that which you don't want to do, or pressuring others to do what they don't want to do. Watching porn doesn't make you an @sshole; neither does seeing something in porn and asking your SO if they'd be interested in trying that. That's simply a healthy, open and honest sexuality.


----------



## over20

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> What kind of porn are YOU talking about? Most porn I see is just people having relatively ordinary sex... but regardless, with or without porn one should not be pressuring another into sex acts they're not interested in. Porn doesn't make anyone do this.
> 
> I defend porn in the same manner I defend violent video games and alcohol. Just because Joe Bob can't trust himself not to become a 5 hour a day drunk spanking monkey who strong-arms his low self-esteem wife into sex acts that she doesn't want... doesn't mean the rest of us have that problem. Heck, that's not even the common problem referred to when porn is attacked. Its more commonly complained that the wife isn't getting any. All are abuse.
> 
> I have kids. I have a daughter. Porn isn't the villain. Abusive people are. This is the point you really don't get.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with your argument is that you are arguing from an assumption: that a person doing either is debasing themselves. You are projecting your mindset, but not everyone feels the same way about these things as you do. The only things debasing are doing that which you don't want to do, or pressuring others to do what they don't want to do. Watching porn doesn't make you an @sshole; neither does seeing something in porn and asking your SO if they'd be interested in trying that. That's simply a healthy, open and honest sexuality.


I think the problem with this whole thread including other ones that talk about porn, is that the thread is started by a female trying to understand a male's perception of porn. Females will never understand males and porn. If wives would spend more time meeting their husbands sexual needs and less time judging and ridiculing their husbands porn struggle, THEY WOULD HAVE HAPPIER, SEXUALLY CONTENT HUSBAND'S THAT WOULD VIEW PORN LESS!! It's that simple ladies!!:slap:

Btw, I have tried to read up about this in various books and have long conversations with my husband (without judgement) and I still don't understand and that's OK. I just go on screwing my husband as much as possible!!


----------



## PBear

ClipClop,

Not sure where you got that idea... Yes, my SO and I have had swinging experiences, but it has nothing to do with her being a "keeper" or not. She's defiantly a keeper! 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

over20 said:


> I think the problem with this whole thread including other ones that talk about porn, is that the thread is started by a female trying to understand a male's perception of porn. Females will never understand males and porn. If wives would spend more time meeting their husbands sexual needs and less time judging and ridiculing their husbands porn struggle, THEY WOULD HAVE HAPPIER, SEXUALLY CONTENT HUSBAND'S THAT WOULD VIEW PORN LESS!! It's that simple ladies!!:slap:


This is true.



over20 said:


> Btw, I have tried to read up about this in various books and have long conversations with my husband (without judgement) and I still don't understand and that's OK. I just go on screwing my husband as much as possible!!


Ha... you don't understand because there's not really any "eureka", or amazing insight into it. Its just stupid simple. We like to be aroused and seeing sexual activity and naked women is arousing. The same reason anyone might enjoy a mirror in the bedroom. There's no judgment of anyone involved. Its simply, "hey, I want to be aroused and I can push this button to do it." I don't have to be an @ss and demand my SO strip tease for me even though she's uncomfortable doing so. Or even just stupid simple visual variety.


----------



## over20

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> This is true.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha... you don't understand because there's not really any "eureka", or amazing insight into it. Its just stupid simple. We like to be aroused and seeing sexual activity and naked women is arousing. The same reason anyone might enjoy a mirror in the bedroom. There's no judgment of anyone involved. Its simply, "hey, I want to be aroused and I can push this button to do it." I don't have to be an @ss and demand my SO strip tease for me even though she's uncomfortable doing so. Or even just stupid simple visual variety.


Thanks, us wives should think more like men!!:rofl::rofl:


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

over20 said:


> Thanks, us wives should think more like men!!:rofl::rofl:


Shouldn't be too hard. We don't think much. hahah


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: Re: Porn 'victim"*



richie33 said:


> Are women the only people who do porn? Those men in the videos are someone's son.


Yes they are. 

Men are also the main consumers and are slapped on the back getting laid 

Not in my family however. 

About men there would be no porn

I think that's sad what is the women who tend to be scarred by it 

I think the things that most men don't realize is the fact that young boys who are sexually abused or more stars than women are 

I'm not minimizing the effect it has on girls. I know this personally. But I know that it changes Young Men's perception of their own sexuality. Eventually this is going to contact someone in your own family and it probably already has a man woman or child 

And it just really pisses me off that you guys will defend your ****s more than you will defend people


----------



## clipclop2

I use text to speech again I'm sick of making the argument so I'm not going to go back and fill it in because it's going to affect each and every family no matter how much you protect your **** over you protect them


----------



## ScarletBegonias

over20 said:


> I think the problem with this whole thread including other ones that talk about porn, is that the thread is started by a female trying to understand a male's perception of porn. SomeFemales will never understand males and porn.FIFY If wives would spend more time meeting their husbands sexual needs and less time judging and ridiculing their husbands porn struggle, THEY WOULD HAVE HAPPIER, SEXUALLY CONTENT HUSBAND'S THAT WOULD VIEW PORN LESS!! It's that simple ladies!!True to a point.*Some* men are just THAT into their porn.Even if they get laid twice a day they won't stop their porn viewing habit.Even if it's just looking without even masturbating. :slap:
> 
> Btw, I have tried to read up about this in various books and have long conversations with my husband (without judgement) and I still don't understand and that's OK. I just go on screwing my husband as much as possible!!


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

clipclop2 said:


> And it just really pisses me off that you guys will defend your ****s more than you will defend people


I am defending people. I'm defending people's right to choose for themselves whether they watch porn or not.


The notion that even these male/female actors are abused is even a stretch today. These women glorify themselves, push their "brand" and go to conventions. It may not be your thing, but its unacceptable for you to decide what someone else wants to do. If these women are damaged, they were damaged long before they went into porn.

You'd still have amateur porn to contend with regardless. Is every married couple that shares videos of themselves abusing themselves? This is one of the largest genres.

You're not saving the world from porn. You're saving yourself from your own discomfort and insecurity. You can't be a victim of porn. You can be a victim of neglect, and neglect is just as likely to come from a man who works too much as it is a man who watches porn. Would you suggest that men don't work?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

ScarletBegonias said:


> When we first got together he had MAJOR erection issues and performance issues. Serious anxiety,the whole nine.
> 
> He was so programmed to get off visually that it seemed he forgot how to have real sex without a computer in his face.


If I watched too much this would happen to me too. That's how I learned that there can be too much. Of course, I was in a sexless marriage so... what else was I going to do? Oh the irony of having an affair, going limp and then struggling with anxiety. Not only did I think I was a mess for stepping out, but I fell flat on my face. Thank goodness that went away with less masturbation, I was ready to jump off a bridge. lol


----------



## Bobby5000

I understand the various perspectives. A few added points

1. The detrimental effects of porn on the participants should be discussed. Many women have been abused, victims of incest and their activities are a product of mental illness. Many develop drug abuse issues to mask their pain. 

2. Note the impact of stress and perceived powerlessness for men. 
Under stress, women's desire usually decreases while men's increase. Additionally, porn can be an attempt by men to store control and feelings of power. When a woman says, I forbid you from doing this (because I set the rules and our relationship is similar to a school where the teacher can set rules or a house where mom sets down the rules).


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: Re: Porn 'victim"*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> You're not saving the world from porn. You're saving yourself from your own discomfort and insecurity. You can't be a victim of porn. You can be a victim of neglect, and neglect is just as likely to come from a man who works too much as it is a man who watches porn. Would you suggest that men don't work?


Typical response. Personal judgement? The kettle looks black from here. 

Your entire argument is... EH, it isn't an argument. It is a joke. 

Choose. Nobody is taking that away from you. But you don't get to choose for me, either. Want porn? You don't get me. See how that works? 

The comments about abuse are just sad. You wouldn't have a prayer with me in the real world on that basis alone. So your porn use is immaterial. 

To the person who said that meeting a man's needs will reduce porn use, that's a maybe. 
Understanding a struggle doesn't fix things in that case. Someone who chooses porn regardless doesn't care much that you understand. It only helps them support their continued use. 

My h will never have a normal response. That's clear to me. We have adjusted. Rather, I have. If porn comes anywhere near this relationship again it is over. No discussion. 

Things have gotten better and I think they are as good as they are going to get.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

clipclop2 said:


> How do you know this to be the absolute truth?
> 
> A guy may be happy to have sex with his wife but that doesn't mean he doesn't think about the women in porn or compare you to them.
> 
> Little fact about men and sex/porn: they lie even if they generally feel their SO is OK with what they have let them know. It is what you don't know that will bite you.


Every guy does not think about the women in porn when he's with his SO. Some do, most don't...they're a little busy getting some action! You seem to be overly concerned with what goes on in other people's minds...their private thoughts. 

Again, most men are not going to compare their SO to women in porn. Any more than they compare their women to famous actresses or supermodels. They see these women, appreciate their looks, they don't ACTUALLY think 'Wow! If only we met IRL, I'd be doing her!' They're hardly in a position to dump their IRL SO for porn stars (and most wouldn't want them....they're a FANTASY!)

Now, if a guy starts pushing his woman to get plastic surgery that she doesn't want, or to perform actions she's not interested in, then that's different. It's like sexual harassment...there's nothing wrong with asking, it's when you're pushy that you've crossed a line.

It would seem that porn has been a problem in your relationship, and that is unfair. But, as others pointed out, if someone is an alcoholic, it doesn't mean that ALL ALCOHOL should be banned for everyone.


----------



## clipclop2

Yup.

My relationship explains the problems with porn in every other relationship where...

Jesus.

Your problem with porn is...

Your intense defense of porn.

Do you play chess? 

Not well, I bet.

Ban me. You are an idiot.


----------



## clipclop2

Would you pass a lie detector test if you were asked if you were challenged that you never thought about porn during sex? That is, where you were also not coming up with bull that convinced yourself that you weren't lying? 

Think hard and honestly about that. You don't have to answer me. Just be honest with yourself. That's all that matters.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

clipclop2 said:


> Typical response. Personal judgement? The kettle looks black from here.


You've based your anti-porn argument on porn being problem for sexual health. For some, it is. For most people, it is not. You are wrong and I've called you on it. Its quite clear that the majority of men watch porn and the majority of men are not 5+ hour a day spankers who neglect their responsibilities and relationships.

With those facts being more than obvious, and your only evidence being the extreme cases (ie alcoholism), your motivation is clearly in play. That's not pot and kettle. That's, why is something the majority of men enjoy in a perfectly healthy way such a big problem for you if not your own insecurity?



clipclop2 said:


> Your entire argument is... EH, it isn't an argument. It is a joke.


"Its a joke" is a counter-argument? lol Ad hominems don't score any points.



clipclop2 said:


> Choose. Nobody is taking that away from you. But you don't get to choose for me, either. Want porn? You don't get me. See how that works?


That works awesome because I wouldn't want you. But your rationale for having a problem with someone watching porn is still missing. It may take you awhile, but you'll eventually come around and understand that absent abuse akin to alcoholism, your root problem is really jealousy and insecurity. Everything else is just a cover you use to feel more rational.



clipclop2 said:


> The comments about abuse are just sad. You wouldn't have a prayer with me in the real world on that basis alone. So your porn use is immaterial.


Again, I wouldn't want you, so we're good. But the argument isn't about whether I'd want you or whether you'd want me, the argument is whether watching porn is harmful - to which the answer is: no. It is not inherently harmful. Like many things, it can be abused by abusive people who seek escape in it. No different from someone who drinks to cope, or even exercises to extreme to cope. Porn isn't the problem. The person is.



clipclop2 said:


> To the person who said that meeting a man's needs will reduce porn use, that's a maybe.
> Understanding a struggle doesn't fix things in that case. Someone who chooses porn regardless doesn't care much that you understand. It only helps them support their continued use.


So what if someone watches porn? So what if someone drinks? What matters is whether someone abuses it. Its the person, not the porn or the alcohol.



clipclop2 said:


> My h will never have a normal response. That's clear to me. We have adjusted. Rather, I have. If porn comes anywhere near this relationship again it is over. No discussion.
> 
> Things have gotten better and I think they are as good as they are going to get.


I'm sorry for your situation, but understand that it wasn't something intrinsic to porn that did the damage. It was your husband. You could have a relationship with a million other men who watch porn on occasion and have no problems. Your husband is just not one of those men... just as some people can't have "just one drink". That doesn't make alcohol a problem. That makes THAT person's consumption of alcohol a problem - because they can't control themselves. The picture of your motivations is more clear now however. You hate porn because your husband was an abuser.

Its not the porn, its his lack of self-control, and I don't blame you at all for drawing a line in the sand over HIS porn watching. Tenet Nosce - know thyself. HE should avoid it.

I sincerely hope he gets it back together.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

clipclop2 said:


> Would you pass a lie detector test if you were asked if you were challenged that you never thought about porn during sex? That is, where you were also not coming up with bull that convinced yourself that you weren't lying?
> 
> Think hard and honestly about that. You don't have to answer me. Just be honest with yourself. That's all that matters.


Don't even have to think hard about it.

I have never, even once, even slightly thought about porn during sex. Not even once. It has never even occurred to me to do so.


----------



## PieceOfSky

Speaking of escape, I just now read this thread from the beginning. 



There is one thing I wish would be considered by those so opposed to others masturbating to porn: the horrible effects shame can have on a person, especially a young person, but even an adult.



I suspect the message absorbed by some is that masturbation is shameful, and even having the urge, and curiosity about another's body is shameful too, and seeking sexually arousing images evidence of perversion or failure. It seems some here would INTEND to send that message to their partner, the sender self-assured he/she knows everything that needs to be known about human sexuality in general, and the partner's mind and body in particular.



That sort of thing has power to harm people and their relationships in ways porn cannot.


----------



## Mr B

over20 said:


> You make a great point that I never thought of, thank you for sharing.
> 
> I feel for you, men in these situations deserve better


As many times I have posted my story online I rarely get an answer like this one which I always thought was kind of strange.

What I get, especially from people who live in the United States, is that rather than stay with the family, having a sexless marriage is always a deal breaker and I should seek a divorce kids or no kids. In Europe and other parts of the world people would say yes, good on you for keeping the family together but you should seek a mistress or buddy with benefits on the side.

And very few, like you, agree that I am doing the right thing by not getting a divorce or seeking sex outside the marriage and instead giving up skin to skin sex in order to keep the family togther and live under the same roof as my kids.

I always found it very peculiar that to Americans divorce is preferable to either porn or taking a sex buddy on the side. The rest of the world sees divorce as the worst thing that can happen to a family not an escape from the situation itself. This is even the case with many right wing/religious Americans. Go figure.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

A survey study of the existing literature on porn addiction.
Is Porn Addictive? There's No Proof | Alternet


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## clipclop2

Depends on what you are protecting.e


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Ugh... I hate these stories about guys who can't put it down and it colors their every thought.

I wonder, would these guys prefer to be single?


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## Mr B

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Ugh... I hate these stories about guys who can't put it down and it colors their every thought.
> 
> I wonder, would these guys prefer to be single?


I never looked at porn when I was single and always considered it something bored married guys did. I think that if I could be single now I would never look at porn again. Too busy with the real thing making up for lost time.


----------



## DoF

Mr B said:


> As many times I have posted my story online I rarely get an answer like this one which I always thought was kind of strange.
> 
> What I get, especially from people who live in the United States, is that rather than stay with the family, having a sexless marriage is always a deal breaker and I should seek a divorce kids or no kids. In Europe and other parts of the world people would say yes, good on you for keeping the family together but you should seek a mistress or buddy with benefits on the side.
> 
> And very few, like you, agree that I am doing the right thing by not getting a divorce or seeking sex outside the marriage and instead giving up skin to skin sex in order to keep the family togther and live under the same roof as my kids.
> 
> I always found it very peculiar that to Americans divorce is preferable to either porn or taking a sex buddy on the side. The rest of the world sees divorce as the worst thing that can happen to a family not an escape from the situation itself. This is even the case with many right wing/religious Americans. Go figure.


What people THINK or DO means NOTHING. What YOU think and DO means everything.

Is it important to YOU to keep the marriage together even though it's unhealthy? if it is, then do so.

If not, then end it.

To me, if my relationship does not provide me with the reasons why I'm in a relationship to begin with.....why be in it? 

It's like owning a car that has no engine. What's the point of having it? To look pretty? It doesn't get you from A to B, so there is no point of having it.

I come from Europe and will be the first one to tell you that Europe NOR America is exempt from people doing what people do.

And these families you speak of that "rough it out" because "divorce is a such a horrible thing" are pretty miserable in my eyes. It's sad and pathetic (to me), I've seen plenty both here in US and in Europe.


----------



## DoF

Mr B said:


> I never looked at porn when I was single and always considered it something bored married guys did. I think that if I could be single now I would never look at porn again. Too busy with the real thing making up for lost time.


I have a happy marriage and a great sex life. 

I still enjoy porn from time to time. What's the problem?


----------



## always_alone

Personally, I would find the argument that men do not prefer THAT and do not compare their wives to porn stars much more convincing if they didn't spend so much bloody time comparing their wives to porn stars.

For example, some snippets from threads here at TAM: "she's no supermodel"; "if only she'd get that mommy makeover"; "men expect you to be noisy at sex, ignore this at your peril"; "to improve your sex life, find out what porn he watches and do that", "put on some lingerie and give him a show".

How is this not comparing?


----------



## melw74

It does come down to jealousy and insecurities I think.... If your not Okay with porn.... I just think its very controlling to tell your husband not to watch porn...

I also think the majority of men do in enjoy watching. My hubby always says to me, I am a typical red hot blooded man... I like a bit of porn now and again... I just roll my eyes (Jokingly)


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

always_alone said:


> Personally, I would find the argument that men do not prefer THAT and do not compare their wives to porn stars much more convincing if they didn't spend so much bloody time comparing their wives to porn stars.
> 
> For example, some snippets from threads here at TAM: "she's no supermodel"; "if only she'd get that mommy makeover"; "men expect you to be noisy at sex, ignore this at your peril"; "to improve your sex life, find out what porn he watches and do that", "put on some lingerie and give him a show".
> 
> How is this not comparing?


The first two quotes I don't get... can't relate to or explain other than to say, hey... maybe they don't find her attractive anymore? Sucks, but it can happen right? Goes both ways. What does that have to do with porn though? Are you saying she gets more attractive to him by his not seeing other women? He sees them all the time in public. If the issue is liking her less because he sees that hotter woman over there, well, women don't have to be naked in porn videos for that to occur.

As for noise/kink/visual, it's the porn that imitates the predominant real world preference, not the porn that creates the preference. Porn stars yuck it up loud because most men like to hear her pleasure - its feedback that makes us feel like we're doing a good job and she enjoys the sex we're having. Lingerie and visuals? We're turned on by what we see. You wearing lingerie to arouse us is much the same thing porn does. Whatever men want, is what porn will be.

I don't see that as comparing. I see that as porn producers knowing their audience.

Is it really that different for women? I've heard many women admit they're turned on by their man's verbal sounds of pleasure. Most I've heard hate for him to be dead silent. Do you not find a good looking naked male body at least somewhat arousing? Are you not aroused by somewhat unusual things which you can't really understand (read - kink/fantasy)?

No comparing. Just human nature, and porn caters to it.


----------



## always_alone

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Are you saying she gets more attractive to him by his not seeing other women? He sees them all the time in public.


I'm saying that despite protestations to the contrary whenever defending porn, I see men comparing their wives to porn stars, super models, and whatever other jack material they have all of the time. Even explicitly wishing their wives were more like those porn stars.

As for porn producers knowing their audience: of course they do. But porn does not merely reflect sexual desire, it shapes it. More and more research shows that both men and women's expectations and attitudes towards what sex is a product of porn, which is often their key source of sex education.

It isn't just consumer demand, it is pushing the envelope for changing the way people approach sex.


----------



## clipclop2

Advertising is effective. It impacts what we want. Porn is no different. 

The sound of porn had increased men's requirement of having more and louder moans in the bedroom. Boys who have never been with a real woman believe that is what it should look like sms are disappointed with their young wives. 

It blows my mind the depth of denial about the impact porn has on people's sex lives. 

The brain has receptors for a lot of things that are negative for the body. Human nature isn't necessarily going to guide people toward good choices. Porn didn't create that situation, no. But the use of porn does not become good for you just because the brain is attracted to it. The brain is attracted to much that is bad for it.


----------



## ariel_angel77

As you can see, everyone on TAM is pro-porn for whatever reason. I don't see why, as it is completely destructive to a marriage especially if it is an addiction. Even my MC stressed how bad it is for a marriage. Anyway, you are so right to feel this way and don't ever let anyone tell you different--what he did was wrong. Hiding it is even more wrong. 

I might suggest a counselor if you can't get past this feeling. Keep telling him how you feel, though.


----------



## DoF

ariel_angel77 said:


> As you can see, everyone on TAM is pro-porn for whatever reason. I don't see why, as it is *completely destructive to a marriage especially* if it is an addiction. Even my MC stressed how bad it is for a marriage. Anyway, you are so right to feel this way and don't ever let anyone tell you different--what he did was wrong. Hiding it is even more wrong.
> 
> I might suggest a counselor if you can't get past this feeling. Keep telling him how you feel, though.


Its as destructive or none issue as people make it.

My relationship was BUILD on porn. Wife and I used to watch it daily first few months of our relationship.

We turned out ok and still watch it together from time to time.


----------



## clipclop2

That is a very weird statement to make with pride.

Does your wife feel your relationship was built on porn?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

always_alone said:


> I'm saying that despite protestations to the contrary whenever defending porn, I see men comparing their wives to porn stars, super models, and whatever other jack material they have all of the time. Even explicitly wishing their wives were more like those porn stars.


Where do you see this? The closest I can relate it to, amongst myself and men I know, is enjoying a "showy" woman - that is one that is confident in exhibiting her body and even vocal in bed. We tend to enjoy this regardless of whether we watch porn or not. Porn didn't create the preference, but to explain the preference we might use porn as an example. I don't know that this is the same sort of comparing that you're thinking of (as in, you can't "compete").



always_alone said:


> But porn does not merely reflect sexual desire, it shapes it. More and more research shows that both men and women's expectations and attitudes towards what sex is a product of porn, which is often their key source of sex education.
> 
> It isn't just consumer demand, it is pushing the envelope for changing the way people approach sex.


So you're saying all I have to do to get you to want to get pissed on is repeatedly show you watersports porn? Seriously?

There is clearly a line that is not nearly as encompassing as you imply.

Regardless of whether X was a personally derived desire or a desire developed through watching porn (which I find dubious - but this is for the sake of discussion) - if you want to turn that guy on and he points to X in porn that turns him on, why wouldn't you do X which turns him on? Wouldn't those turn-ons be helpful information to know? Or is he just supposed to be turned-on the way you want him to be? The way you're comfortable with?

I'm entirely unconvinced that porn shapes your sexual preferences. Rather, I believe porn can expose your sexual preferences. You don't know you like it until you see it - but that preference for it was already there.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

clipclop2 said:


> Advertising is effective. It impacts what we want. Porn is no different.
> 
> The sound of porn had increased men's requirement of having more and louder moans in the bedroom. Boys who have never been with a real woman believe that is what it should look like sms are disappointed with their young wives.


And what of women who say the same thing and have never watched porn? From what I've gathered, most women prefer to hear the audible pleasure of their husbands not only his heavy breathing. Most take pleasure from hearing a man give some sort of grunt or sound during orgasm in particular - silence is not popular.

The issue here is that there is no what it "should" look like or sound like. There is only what YOU want it to look like or sound like. Whether you think that's personal preference or some kind of brainwashing by porn is, imo, entirely irrelevant. Its up to each partner to convey to the other what they seek from sex. If he wants more moaning, he should say so. Regardless of why he wants more moaning, why wouldn't you meet the request if you want to turn him on?

Pointing fingers at porn to avoid having to do anything to turn on your partner just sounds like a rationalization for insecurity and laziness.



clipclop2 said:


> It blows my mind the depth of denial about the impact porn has on people's sex lives.
> 
> The brain has receptors for a lot of things that are negative for the body. Human nature isn't necessarily going to guide people toward good choices. Porn didn't create that situation, no. But the use of porn does not become good for you just because the brain is attracted to it. The brain is attracted to much that is bad for it.


Porn is neither good nor bad for you. If your ego or shyness can't handle a request to be more vocal or exhibitionist in bed, then move along - find someone else more your taste no? Because these requests are made out of sexual preference whether porn is watched or not.

You can take the course of expanding to meet your partners desires, or shut down and use porn as a scapegoat for your not wanting to.

After 50 shades came out... you can bet there were a hell of a lot of men whose wives approached them about more dominance in bed, and I'll bet few of those men cried out "I can't be dominant! I'm a weenie - this is who I am! Your preferences are distorted by porn addiction!!"


----------



## clipclop2

Thou really didn't read what I wrote did you.


----------



## staarz21

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> After 50 shades came out... you can bet there were a hell of a lot of men whose wives approached them about more dominance in bed, and I'll bet few of those men cried out "I can't be dominant! I'm a weenie - this is who I am! Your preferences are distorted by porn addiction!!"


:rofl: I literally almost spit my wine out as I imagined a grown man whining about that. It does seem almost silly. 

Porn is...well, it is what it is. The *person* watching porn is factor in whether it's good or bad. 

I watch porn maybe a few times a month. The rest of the time, I have my super awesome imagination 

My H on the other hand can't go a day without porn. He watches it anywhere from 2-6 hours a day. He watches at home, work, in the truck, where ever. Yes. It interfered with our sex life. He didn't want to have sex. Like ever. When we did do it, he couldn't O sometimes. FYI...I am a do it everyday sex person. If I can do it everyday...I'm all there! So I don' deny my H. He watches porn because he's become accustom to the death grip of his hand and the 9,000,000,000,000 different ladies who can please him.

I remember once he watched porn 10 mins after having sex with me. I asked if he wanted round 2! He said nah, and turned off his computer. I fell asleep shortly thereafter, and he took his laptop to the bathroom to watch porn again (I woke up when I heard the door close). Ouch to the ego! 

Anyway, just like anything else - if it doesn't go against any religion or anything - it's ok in moderation. I think a lot of people don't quite understand that there are some out there who just watch way too much and it does hurt the marriage. 

Likewise, there are some people who flip out if they find out their partner watches porn once a week. Some of those people don't even have sex with their partners which boggles my mind. There really is no definite good or bad when it comes to porn. It's the PERSON that determines whether or not they can handle it.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

^Exactly, just like alcohol. I'm glad you recognize the problem is the man's excessive and detrimental to the relationship habit and not the porn itself. The alcoholic, not the consumption of alcohol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## always_alone

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> So you're saying all I have to do to get you to want to get pissed on is repeatedly show you watersports porn? Seriously?


I didn't say porn *causes* desire.. I said it *shapes* attitudes and expectations around sex. 

Anyone who watches mainstream porn and thinks it depicts women's sexuality or enthusiasm has clearly had their expectations and attitudes shaped by porn.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

always_alone said:


> I didn't say porn *causes* desire.. I said it *shapes* attitudes and expectations around sex.
> 
> Anyone who watches mainstream porn and thinks it depicts women's sexuality or enthusiasm has clearly had their expectations and attitudes shaped by porn.


Mainstream porn generally isn't about women's sexuality or enthusiasm. It's predominantly about what men desire of women - male fantasy. Part of its popularity is based on the fact that it's usually a harmless way to address an unmet desire - whether it be for other women, or if you have a quiet wife/gf... vocal women. It is also an outlet for fantasy that you have no interest in acting out in real life. Given an uncooperative partner, a man's alternatives to porn are self-denial or ending the relationship.

The results of various research on whether/how porn "shapes" attitudes and expectations is all over the map. Just the other day I was reading an article about a Danish study that reported positive effects of watching porn for both men and women - including greater comfort with their sexuality, attitude and satisfaction with their sex life, as well as perceptions of the opposite sex.


----------



## clipclop2

So they are more comfortable but less capable of having good partnered sex. That will eventually erode the self concept IF the person is ever willing to admit the nature of the problem. Most people avoid and blame and deny.

You can keep porn in your life but your reasoning is just not sound.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

clipclop2 said:


> So they are more comfortable but less capable of having good partnered sex.


Who said they're less capable? Certainly not what I was reading. The amount of porn watching that is correlated with various problems would be a problem for just about any behavior. Virtually anything done to excess is a vice.

But your position isn't one of moderation. If I'm not mistaken, the anti-porn positions expressed here are condemnations and zero tolerance positions based on excess/extreme arguments. The same thinking that says prohibit alcohol consumption because some people will be alcoholics.


----------



## clipclop2

Hardly. Sexuality is a part of life that exists with or without porn. Porn is far more powerful in impacting the brain in a much shorter time. Alcohol is much less powerful. It doesn't even enter into the argument. Alcohol is not the topic.


----------



## melw74

ariel_angel77 said:


> As you can see, everyone on TAM is pro-porn for whatever reason. I don't see why, as it is completely destructive to a marriage especially if it is an addiction. Even my MC stressed how bad it is for a marriage. Anyway, you are so right to feel this way and don't ever let anyone tell you different--what he did was wrong. Hiding it is even more wrong.
> 
> I might suggest a counselor if you can't get past this feeling. Keep telling him how you feel, though.


Why do you find it so hard to believe that people on here are pro porn... Its not just on here you know... Many couples watch porn here and there all over not just on sites on the internet.... Yes it can be destructive to a marriage, but so can many things..... If abused.

Partners usually hide it if they like porn because they feel they have to because of the reaction they get if their partner finds out... If someones partner his hiding the fact they watch porn... then its usually because they feel they have to.... which i think is also wrong.


----------



## ariel_angel77

melw74 said:


> Why do you find it so hard to believe that people on here are pro porn... Its not just on here you know... Many couples watch porn here and there all over not just on sites on the internet.... Yes it can be destructive to a marriage, but so can many things..... If abused.
> 
> Partners usually hide it if they like porn because they feel they have to because of the reaction they get if their partner finds out... If someones partner his hiding the fact they watch porn... then its usually because they feel they have to.... which i think is also wrong.


I really think that this is much more severe than other things since it takes the most intimate thing in a marriage/relationship (sex) and makes it seem like it's nothing. People on porn portray sex as if it's nothing to them. It's a contagious thing and it causes people in marriages to want more than they have. I KNOW because I used to watch it. What happened in the bedroom wasn't enough anymore. You think it's wrong that someone feels they should have to hide it if they watch it? Sorry, but if their spouse has a problem with it, then they shouldn't be watching it to begin with. If porn means more to you (not you but in general) than your marriage, then you shouldn't be married.

_There is *definitely* nothing in porn that benefits a marriage._ The skewed view of intimacy only hurts a marriage.


----------



## melw74

ariel_angel77 said:


> I really think that this is much more severe than other things since it takes the most intimate thing in a marriage/relationship (sex) and makes it seem like it's nothing. People on porn portray sex as if it's nothing to them. It's a contagious thing and it causes people in marriages to want more than they have. I KNOW because I used to watch it. What happened in the bedroom wasn't enough anymore. You think it's wrong that someone feels they should have to hide it if they watch it? Sorry, but if their spouse has a problem with it, then they shouldn't be watching it to begin with. If porn means more to you (not you but in general) than your marriage, then you shouldn't be married.
> 
> _There is *definitely* nothing in porn that benefits a marriage._ The skewed view of intimacy only hurts a marriage.


But... for me, I am his wife NOT his mother, why should i be able to tell my husband he should not like porn if he does:scratchhead:.....He an adult, just like i am, I would prefer it if hes honest with me, which he is... if hes been watching it, he just tells me, he does not have to hide a single thing in my marriage.

My hubby hates computers, I on the other hand love coming on to sites like these, my husband has no interest in them, but he would not tell me to stop as its something i enjoy.... as long as i am not neglecting him and his needs, and it does not become an addiction... Or i am not on my laptop 24/7 then there is no problem....

As for porn taking over our sex life..... watching it could never come close to taking the place of the real thing, My husband would take being intimate with me over porn any day of the week, he just likes watching it on occasion like i do..... its not a massive part in our relationship, Its a slice, like a piece of cake sometimes we enjoy having a piece of it...

We enjoy watching it together sometimes its no biggie..... Not for us...


----------



## Nikita2270

I think the worst thing about porn is simply not being able to tell as a consumer if you're buying something from consenting adults or someone who's been forced into trafficking. That's the only moral issue I have with it.

Otherwise, If I walked in on my partner watching porn, I'd just ask if he wanted some company.

I find it strange that people are so offended by masturbation. Big deal, if you masturbate, its not that you don't want sex...its that it works different and feels different.

I'm sure there are cases that someone becomes so fond of porn that it detracts from their normal sex life...but I don't think that's the case for most people that watch porn.

The outrage on the part of the OP seems silly to me. Geez, let the guy watch some porn and whack off if he's in the mood. Most guys whack off most of their childhoods, did you really expect him just to stop when he met you? lol...

If you really want to join in, just ask if he wants you to watch him. Its fun to watch your partner please themselves. I'm sure he'd appreciate your enthusiasm.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

clipclop2 said:


> Hardly. Sexuality is a part of life that exists with or without porn. Porn is far more powerful in impacting the brain in a much shorter time. Alcohol is much less powerful. It doesn't even enter into the argument. Alcohol is not the topic.


Potency is irrelevant. It takes more coffee to harm you than alcohol, but it can still kill you. Should we say coffee is bad? Eat too many candy bars and you'll probably become diabetic, but that doesn't make eating a candy bar a month bad. Read an article this week of a kid in Georgia who died of drinking perfectly good water. Know what he did? He drank too much, became overhydrated, experienced swelling of the brain, passed out and died.

The relevant issue is what constitutes healthy consumption - what constitutes moderation.

Your "no porn, its always harmful" view is incorrect. It's all about moderation, just like everything else.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

ariel_angel77 said:


> Sorry, but if their spouse has a problem with it, then they shouldn't be watching it to begin with. If porn means more to you (not you but in general) than your marriage, then you shouldn't be married.


You phrase this as a condemnation of the porn watcher, and I believe that sort of thinking is incorrect. This is a false choice. There is no such thing as "shouldn't be watching porn" or enjoying porn meaning you shouldn't be married. There is only, the two of your views differ such that you should not be married to each other in the first place.

It's not a matter of them valuing porn more than a marriage. Its a matter of you demanding changes from the person you meet so they conform to what you want. Most men were watching porn before you met them. 

I know women who won't date men who drink (at all). I know women who won't date men who watch porn. I know women who accept or do both themselves. Most of them find agreeable partners.



ariel_angel77 said:


> _There is *definitely* nothing in porn that benefits a marriage._ The skewed view of intimacy only hurts a marriage.


Well that's not true either. You may not be able to relate, but many married people expand the range of their sex lives through porn. It's not porn that is responsible for diminished capacity for pleasure from the same stimulus - that's human nature. Some married couples begin watching porn together for the very reason that they've become bored of their sexual routine. Porn didn't make them bored.

Also, not all sex is about deep intimacy. In fact, you don't need sex at all to be intimate. The strict linking of sex with intimacy, is yours.


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## Mr B

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I am defending people. I'm defending people's right to choose for themselves whether they watch porn or not.
> 
> 
> The notion that even these male/female actors are abused is even a stretch today. These women glorify themselves, push their "brand" and go to conventions. It may not be your thing, but its unacceptable for you to decide what someone else wants to do. If these women are damaged, they were damaged long before they went into porn.
> 
> You'd still have amateur porn to contend with regardless. Is every married couple that shares videos of themselves abusing themselves? This is one of the largest genres.
> 
> You're not saving the world from porn. You're saving yourself from your own discomfort and insecurity. You can't be a victim of porn. You can be a victim of neglect, and neglect is just as likely to come from a man who works too much as it is a man who watches porn. Would you suggest that men don't work?


Agreed. Personally I could care less about pornstars personal lives. They are great looking people having regular great sex with a nice variety of other great looking people and getting paid for it. I haven't had sex with anyone for over a decade so I need to watch them to have some kind of sex life. Believe me if I could trade places with any one of them I would, in a heartbeat. As for feeling sorry for them....give me a break.


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## MrsFrench

I have a seemingly unique view on porn.

I enjoy visual stimulation myself, so I completely understand the appeal in general. I am also struggling with my husband's sex drive being feast or famine, so I understand needing a release that your spouse can't or will not give you. My husband and I have and do watch porn together semi-frequently, it adds additional sexual energy to the room, if you are both in the right mindset and mood for it. If one of us wants to make love, it would be hurtful for the other to suggest turning on a skin flick.

I also don't watch porn to look at buff guys with huge packages because of my desire to see them naked and performing, nor do I fantasize about the people in the porn I do watch. I find that to be completely wrong. I've discovered H looking at images of naked women, while I was asleep upstairs, and that hurt me. In that application, you are getting turned on by a woman's body that isn't mine, not a sexual act that is naturally stimulating. Not to mention, I want sex more often than he does, so if I am not fully satisfied, it isn't right to satisfy himself, in my opinion.

Everyone has their own feelings and thoughts, every relationship has it's own boundaries. As much as your husband should care about and respect yours, you should look within yourself and try to push those boundaries a bit. Explore porn together, see how you feel.


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## Mr B

DoF said:


> I have a happy marriage and a great sex life.
> 
> I still enjoy porn from time to time. What's the problem?


Well I haven't had sex for almost 20 years so if I could be single again and date like I used to before I got married I would never look at porn because I'd be too busy making up for lost time doing it for real.


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## clipclop2

Give me a break. You are sexually dysfunctional. You had better be gorgeous and/or have a lot of money to pay for sex because the number of women you would require once your dysfunction kicks in would require you move from town to town. I'm really afraid you buy your own lies. That's just sad.


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## DvlsAdvc8

On what basis do you declare someone sexually dysfunctional? What are you claiming is a lie?


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## clipclop2

Read his posts across this site.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Oh... ha, "ain't nobody got time for that". I thought you were referring to something said in this thread.


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