# 16 years of dealing with the hurt...



## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

...so it seems like as good a time as any to write something about my experience.

Before I begin....let me say hello. I've been looking around on the net recently (5 to 6 weeks) about how to deal with infidelity...because what happened years ago is still haunting me today. It seems that I have gathered the most pertinent information here on this board...hence my reason for being here now. To all those here that put their information...feelings (good or bad), and advice out there for me to look at...I send out a heart-felt "Thank You". (I’m also not too familiar with all the abbreviations…so please bear with my ‘long-hand’)

*Some background:* I'm married to the same woman for almost 30 years. About 16 years ago, we were going through a "rough patch"...and started seeing a family therapist (wife & I)...mostly for the purpose of dealing with some school issues for one of our kids. This therapist...then turned the sessions into marriage counseling because SHE felt that the in-house stress was behind some of the children issues. I emphasized the word SHE...because right from the start I had a strong sense that this therapist was more or less "pro-woman"...rather than riding the fence up the middle. Over time...the therapy sessions became more geared toward bashing me...rather than how we as a couple could resolve whatever issues there were.

It was shortly before all of this that my wife had gotten “her freedom”…meaning she had never driven before…and got her license about a year prior (in her mid 30’s). With that, she was then working in an office environ rather than out of the house as she had always done. It was also around this time that she started hanging with other women in the neighborhood…many of whom I’d unfortunately label as “loose” for lack of a better term (each of them being hard party people…sexually irresponsible….each with a few kids from a few different fathers…non of which stick around...etc). She also started taking better care of herself…lost some weight…and dressing sexier. This was one of the issues that came up in therapy….being that I didn’t take “notice” and compliment her on her looks (mostly because we were often bickering and giving compliments wasn’t on my agenda when I was pissed). She was also going out with “the girls” when I got home from work. (she claimed it was so that she didn’t have to be around and argue)…and so I was stuck as baby-sitter because we had two younger (10 & 7) kids.

Being that there was so much home tension…the therapist suggested a “trial separation”. Nothing legal…nothing in writing….just me going to stay at somewhere for a week or so to have stuff cool off…let tensions calm. I made it CLEAR at that session…this was TRIAL…there’d be no seeing anyone else…no relationships. At that point my wife said that she wasn’t making rules. I pretty much guessed at that point that she was seeing someone…or was planning to. The night before I left…she was out again…came home quite drunk and we started to talk. She told me that she wasn’t sure that she loved me….and then I found out that there was someone else…and that she slept with him. I pretty much lost it then and there…and moved out the next day for the “trial separation”. 

I was out of the house for 1 week…got my kids on the 1st weekend and went out for the day with them. Upon returning home…she seemed to express a sentiment that she missed me…and I ended up staying and moving back in.

We still went to therapy…we were back in the same house together…and therein seems to be the problem. The therapist’s opinion…stand…whatever you want to label it was that our marriage could still work. *I* now could see that my wife needed to be acknowledged. *I *should learn that I had to “give back” in the relationship. That infidelity can make a relationship stronger…now that *I *know that she can leave to be with others…and *I* need to keep her in the relationship with my attentiveness towards her. That it was "just sex" (can someone out there PLEASE tell me how that will make ANYONE feel better?)

There was NEVER any “heavy lifting” by her to show her remorse. There was never any honest remorse on her part…there was the “it was BOTH our faults”….and I had to live with it....get over it. Of course there were things that we were both at fault with regarding the relationship....I'm not perfect. But I didn't sleep with someone else. Is it wrong for me to want her to be VERY sorry? Is it wrong for me to want her to feel honestly hurt about what she did? If I am being evil...please tell me. 

Fast forward 16 years…(with the intermittent flash-back to inject critical information). 

I’ve read…mostly here….about “triggers”. And…there are a lot of them…both actual physical items / places…and the ones that reside in my mind. For the past 5 or 6 weeks…I’ve been a mess. I’ve also been “short” with her…moody…angry…because of a “trigger” dream I had that involved her cheating on me. I’ve not discussed it with her..other than saying that I had a really bad dream one night while we were on vacation. (and I didn’t want to elaborate then & there and ruin things). 

When we were in that therapy years ago…and the affair had come to light….I was not allowed to ask questions. I don’t know his name…where he lived other than in the next town. I don’t know what he looked like. I wasn’t allowed to get the intimate sexual details questions asked. I was told she called him to end it…but I’ll never really know. I was told to get over it…and if WE were going to stay together…that’s what I’d have to do. Being that this was supposedly a one night stand…and she had been drinking….I couldn’t be told if there was a condom involved. (said she didn't know) That’s very important to me on two fronts. One…STD’s….’nuff said. Two…we went into the “honeymoon” mode when I moved back in…and shortly thereafter…my wife was pregnant. Of course…I would think that given the fact that she slept with someone about a week before we “separated”…I’d have the ‘right’ to wonder if the child was mine? When I further look into the matter…years later…it just seems to me that the birth date doesn’t “work”…calendar wise. So, there’s something else that’s in my head. Before a baby is born…names are usually discussed by parents. How would I know not to pick a name that might have been “his”? Of course…whenever I brought this up to her…the answer I got was, “As far as I’m concerned…the baby is yours”. You’d also think that the baby (a daughter) would be a “trigger”…and I suppose she is…but…I’ve done nothing but love and spoil her …probably more than my other two children…for fear of “taking out my anger” at the wrong person. She’s wonderfully smart….talented…and that’s a “trigger”…because (and..guys..please tell me if I’m wrong)…a father somehow wants to take pride in a trait (genetic)…that he’s passed on to a child. I however…am left wondering. Other “triggers”….like the bar she went to meet this other guy..is a mile away…and I drive past it often. So does she…and I have no choice to wonder if it makes her think of him. I also told her that I would never go there…and I didn’t want her to ever go there…yet…she’s gone on several occasions with friends of ours…and I simply bowed out (albeit angrily)….and was then furious with her later...and of course was told I was being childish.

Regarding sexual intimacy….it’s been few and far between ever since then. I don’t know if she cares…or thinks so…even after once going nearly 18 months with nothing. To me....when we do have sex...it feels as if she’s “going through the motions”…and it’s uninspired. Of course…for 16 years I’ve been competing against the sexual prowess of some guy I don’t know…and that’s been no picnic. There’s never the occasion for me to say in in my mind in the 'after-glow' , “wow…I was good…that was good”…because the perpetual self-doubt that was planted in my mind will always be there. How some people can get over that...is beyond me? It's probably more difficult on my end since we had been (up to her "one nighter") the only persons that each of us had ever slept with. (_yes...I was a 20yr old virgin....laughing can commence now....okay....enuff laughter_). 

Anyway....back to the present. I'm having a really difficult time with the inner angst /anger that I'm harboring. Usually over the past 16 years....if it's too bad...I'll have a short sob in the shower when I wake up...and then it's behind me for the day. I really have a problem with this...and I see that it's affected my life in the negative sense over these many years. I actually have major anxiety attacks when I try to summon the strenght to approach her to get it out in the light. Because I know...she'll tell me that it's "_all in my head_"...or that _"the only time I think of it/him..is when you bring it up"._
I'm sorry...but I don't buy it. If there was ONLY one other person that she's slept with besides me, and it happened ONCE, I'd be pretty sure that she'd remember it.


Sorry for the non-Reader's Digest version.....I was just looking for some outlet to vent...for lack of a better term....and I guess that I got rambling. Perhaps some insight might be provided to what I'm experiencing. I'm really not in the position to see a therapist since I don't have insurance that'll cover it...so any wisdom is greatly appreciated. I'm thinking that this really wasn't handled too well by that thereapist long ago...and maybe if it had been...I'd be in a better position to deal at this point.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

DNA test

Next man have you been sold a line of total bs by your wife and the therapist.

You know what, it's not too late to divorce her. She cheated, she lied, and she humiliated you. She had absolutely no respect for your feelings. Thirds are nit the actions of a wife or a kind person.

I'm pro marriage, but in this case get a lawyer and get her gone.

Btw, chances are she didn't end it and still sees other men.

Get that DNA test and don't put up with her abuse any longer.

Yes, what she did was spousal abuse pure and simple,

Get rid of that hateful woman. Now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Welcome. I'm very sorry you have gone through this ordeal but you are not alone. All of us here have gone through the ordeal of marital betrayal.

Now I have to ask you, *what do you want?*. Do you want to continue being married under the same conditions that have made it impossible for you to have any emotional healing? or Do you want to divorce and move on with your life without her? If you really don't know what you want, then stick around and read more of what is here on TAM.

As far as having no insurance for counseling, have you done a google search for public or private organizations that offer free to low cost counseling? Check also church organizations for they also might be able to assist you with free or low cost IC (individual counseling). But please do a serious effort to get counseling for yourself in order to start your emotional healing.

You'll come to realize that there is hope for a better life no matter what the outcome of the marriage turns out to be.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> We still went to therapy…we were back in the same house together…and therein seems to be the problem. The therapist’s opinion…stand…whatever you want to label it was that our marriage could still work. *I* now could see that my wife needed to be acknowledged. *I *should learn that I had to “give back” in the relationship. That infidelity can make a relationship stronger…now that *I *know that she can leave to be with others…and *I* need to keep her in the relationship with my attentiveness towards her. That it was "just sex" (can someone out there PLEASE tell me how that will make ANYONE feel better?)


WOW! Your therapist sucked! 
First off, when you don't get any details about what happened you're left gaps in your head, or "mind movies" Since your brain doesn't have the full story it fills the gaps with what you believed happened and you're alway left wondering if you're brain got it right. Thus, you tend to ask a lot of questions. 

Your wife NEVER had to live with the consequences of her actions. YOU ARE NOT AT FAULT HERE!!! This wasn't your fault. You can be blamed for 50% of the problems in your marriage and she can be blamed for the other 50%, but the affair was 100% on her! She made a CHOICE to cheat on you! And for her to say that she doesn't remember if protection was used is BS! She remembered she cheated on you!

When your therapist said that the affair can make your marriage stronger because you now know that she can leave and be with other people? WTF!!! I would have said yes! It also proves that *I* can be single and free to see other people. It sounds like you got strong armed to stay while in therapy. You have been a doormat for 16 years! Time to stand up for yourself and she needs to feel the consequences of her actions! She's never been remorseful for cheating on you because that douche rocket of a therapist told her she didn't have to.

She won't tell you what happened? Fine. There's one thing you can do. You can see if your daughter is biologically yours. Now, don't get me wrong she's YOUR daughter and your HER father. But you have a right to know if she's biologically yours! All it takes is a few hairs from her brush, she doesn't even need to know you're doing this. If she isn't then I would say to the wife that you now need to know who he is because you're gonna sue him for back child support. This will rattle her cage a bit and show her you're serious. If she doesn't tell you then fine! Tell her you want a divorce then. Because it's obvious that she would rather protect the OM than to be remorseful and caring to her husbands feelings. Then tell her she can explain why you two are getting divorce to the kids. This was her doing after all.

I seriously don't know how you were able to function for 16 years with this mess, dude.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I agree with Morituri, you need to decide what you want. You haven't healed, because your wife has done nothing to rebuild trust or take responsibility for her betrayal. It was a betrayal. The condition of the marriage was 50/50, but her decision to cheat sits all on her shoulders.

From what you describe, I'd guess your wife was already in an EA or PA well before your trial separation. Since she had the support of the "therapist" (sorry you had such a horribly biased one), she never felt the consequences of her infidelity. Instead she got to cake eat with the therapist's blind eye of approval.

It's hard enough to heal even when the WS is remorseful and demonstrates a willingness to change on a daily basis. You've gotten neither for the last 16 years.

The problem now is that it's been 16 years. For sixteen years your wife has rug swept and you've built resentment. That therapist did you such a diservice. For the past 16 years your wife felt her cheating was justifed, so it's possible she's cheated repeatedly since then. Not trying to freak you out, but it's something you need to consider in your decision of what you want. If by some miracle you can break through to your wife and she finally sees that she was wrong to cheat, it's possible she'll have more to confess. Will it be something you can overcome after all this time?

I can't imagine living in the turmoil of those first few weeks after d-day for 16 years. It's been close to 9 months since d-day for me and I've already come so far. But only because I've had details, no question left unanswered, WS remorse, and his willingness to do the heavy-lifting to earn my trust again. I'm so sorry your wife hasn't done this for you. To finally put it behind you, she'll need to do these things. If she's unwilling or incapable, you need to decide if you can live the way you have for another 16 plus years.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You might try showing her what it's like. Sit her down and explain you listened 16 years ago about how cheating makes a marriage stronger, nd so you decided to try it yourself, and you are likiing it. Get dressed up and take yourself out to dinner. When she asks, remind her she doesn't get to ask questions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

First and foremost, do the paternity test on your daughter. I know you love her, but you still have to know the truth. You owe it to yourself. 

Secondly, you must accept that you did not deal with your W's A properly years ago. See, if the A is not dealt properly with genuine remorse and exposure of truth, it never heals regardless of how many years go by. You now have to start over as though the A happened just yesterday. You dig the truth to the very bottom of it, demand the timeline, demand remorse from your W. Upon her refusal or failure to meet these demands, you have to threaten D with clear will to follow thru. 

I have a feeling it won't be easy due to the power dynamics between you two and the long span of time since A, which your W can use as an excuse to say "I don't remember." or someting similar. This is partly your fault that you let this go this long with out taking proper measure. 

I also acknowledge that you never had much luck with MCs, which made things worse. If you really want to save this M and save your pain, although it is somewhat late, you have to fight the long overdue battle now. I have a feeling your W will be very incorporative and you may have to threaten D many times, and who knows that you may end up Ding her in the end. But, without such resoluteness, you will not accomplish any noticeable result.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

It has been 16 years. Nothing has been resolved to your satisfaction. Dont let it drag out another 20 years. 

You have not heal. And continuing to stay with her is not going to make you heal.

You are probably in your 50's. There's still a lot of life to live. Dont waste the remaining years with someone you cannot respect or trust.

Why not as an exercise, start preparing yourself financially to be on your own? No joint bank accounts, credit cards, loans/debts. Start hiding your monies and put it out of her reach.

Then, the only thing holding you to her is the emotional aspect.

Also, go to the Men's Clubhouse forum of this website and learn how to "man up" as they say.

Post more -- it'll help get your thoughts clear.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> Anyway....back to the present. * I'm having a really difficult time with the inner angst /anger that I'm harboring. Usually over the past 16 years....if it's too bad...I'll have a short sob in the shower when I wake up*...and then it's behind me for the day. I really have a problem with this...and I see that it's affected my life in the negative sense over these many years. *I actually have major anxiety attacks when I try to summon the strenght to approach her to get it out in the light. * Because I know...she'll tell me that it's "_all in my head_"...or that _"the only time I think of it/him..is when you bring it up"._
> I'm sorry...but I don't buy it. If there was ONLY one other person that she's slept with besides me, and it happened ONCE, I'd be pretty sure that she'd remember it.



Dont let yourself slowly die because of your wife.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

You are the poster child for why I don't believe in marriage counselors. There is just to great a chance of getting a bad one, or in your case a really bad one.

16 years is a long time to be pulling this hurt around with you. It's time for a real soul searching moment and find out what YOU want...if it's to work it out with your wife then great...but I will have to tell you...since its been 16 years...starting back at square one will be like pulling teeth for your wife.

If you decide you should leave her...it is certainly understandable. 


The most important factor in this whole equation is YOU. Since you where robbed so many years ago of the all too critical recovery step of "taking care of yourself first"...I would look to getting started right here and now and put yourself first.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

It may be 16 yrs later, but its not to late to decide what you want and need

There is a statute of limitations on most crimes, there has never been a statute of limitations on murder

Murder is what has happened here----your mge, your soul, your peace of mind, your carefree life, all gone, all murdered, by your selfish wife

Bring it all up---the kids must be out of the house now---you have nothing keeping you, if your wife refuses what you need, to repair yourself

Tell her what you need, and give her consequences, if she doesn't meet your needs---you must have some kind of closure, also you may wanna start IC for yourself.

Your wife is the trigger for all of this---but you have leverage---she is what, in her 50's, or 60's---If you leave her, she will basically spend the rest of her life alone, there is very little in the way of decent men out there, in that age category, and many of the good ones, who are there, are not necessarily looking for a partner anyway---so what is she really looking at---spending the rest of her life, on her own, and trying to make ends meet by herself-----you have the leverage, to get your answers, and your demands met----

Do what you need to do, for YOU, it is obvious your wife is a selfish woman, and she very well may not deserve to have you as a H.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Your kids are grown, why accept a lower level of happiness. Divorce her. Definitely dna.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> You might try showing her what it's like. Sit her down and explain you listened 16 years ago about how cheating makes a marriage stronger, nd so you decided to try it yourself, and you are likiing it. Get dressed up and take yourself out to dinner. When she asks, remind her she doesn't get to ask questions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is just so money right here. Yes. Do this.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Hum, you got screwed...now that you know what bad counselor looks like, please go find a good one. I understand money is tight but with some will power you can do it.

You should move on, life is to short to be dealling with a women like that. Granted she has a choice, she can tell you what you need to heal or she can loose you. But you need to stand up and heal your self one way or another.

Stay with your wife is not going to help you heal. I really think that waiting another 16 years is not going to get any better. So cut your loses and as you pack your things to leave you can give your wife the option to either help you heal by providing the information you need and you will stop packing, or just let her go.

It has been way to long and this unhealthy marriage will be the death of you, so go and live, be the best dad you can be by doing the things that will bring out the best in you. Face it your wife is not bring the best out in you and your kids diserve a happier......healthier father. 

I would have to say shes had her chance...shes not going to help you heal. Maybe when she see's you pack, well then maybe but I doubt it.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your wife never had any real consequences for what she's done and with this kind of behavior there is a good chance that she has had several affairs in the last 16 years. I mean she has it made, she has never had to answer for her actions so why not continue. She still doesn't have to answer for her actions so it may very well be cheating right now.

Sorry to be harsh, but I want you to see through the trees by giving you my painful perspective from someone look in from the out side. I may be wrong but it just makes me think and more importantly another reason to move on to be a better man.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

the guy said:


> So cut your loses and as you pack your things to leave


Or she can leave.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

crossbar said:


> WOW! Your therapist sucked!
> First off, when you don't get any details about what happened you're left gaps in your head, or "mind movies" Since your brain doesn't have the full story it fills the gaps with what you believed happened and you're alway left wondering if you're brain got it right. Thus, you tend to ask a lot of questions.
> 
> Your wife NEVER had to live with the consequences of her actions. YOU ARE NOT AT FAULT HERE!!! This wasn't your fault. You can be blamed for 50% of the problems in your marriage and she can be blamed for the other 50%, but the affair was 100% on her! She made a CHOICE to cheat on you! And for her to say that she doesn't remember if protection was used is BS! She remembered she cheated on you!
> ...



...well...after 16 years....perhaps I'm beginning to seriously reflect...and see that I really wasn't functioning the way that a person without this type of burden would have been able to. A lot of decisions and roads I've taken were likely influenced by my sense of extreme self-doubt, shattered self-esteem...and the perceived shame that I carried around with me. Like so many here have said....I'm only 50% responsible for the in-marriage problems (and..I will honestly admit that I can be a huge pain in the ass...loud and scary when angry...and stubborn as a mule). But I didn't sleep with someone else. And believe me...I had my chances. But I wouldn't because: 

1) I still love my wife...and

2) I would never have anything to do with anyone that may inflict the same pain that I have experienced.


Regarding my daughter, yes...the DNA test is always an option. I'm not completely sure how knowing the truth would make me feel? On one hand...if she's mine...I'd have that relief...and the parental sense-of-accomplishment that comes with the territory. If she's not mine...I fear that it may change how I treat her? But as crazy as it may seem to anyone here ...here's my main concern related to this issue: What happens if..god forbid...she ever becomes ill with any malady that requires parental blood, organ, tissue donation...or anything medically along that line....and I'm not genetically related? I know that it sounds far fetched...but all this doubt...seems to make you think in the ridiculously abstract sometimes.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't see how you can however think she loves you. Her actions are nothing shrt of emotionally and mentally abusive.

You have been suffering under her basic emotional abuse and imprisonment for over 16 years. You're likely suffering from a pile of issues since the therapist twisted things so badly to tell you that you were responsible for your wife cheating, and in fact you should be happy she did it. Seriously WTF?

If you can get away from this abusive hateful woman and get yourself some individual therapy from a competent therapist, you will begin to heal and the world will get much brighter for you.

Understand, cheating is never acceptable or good for a marriage. The fact she was free to fo it without consequence makes me believe she has continued it to this day and she has used you as a cuckokd to fund and enable her selfish lifestyle.

Please seek help to escape her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> You are the poster child for why I don't believe in marriage counselors. There is just to great a chance of getting a bad one, or in your case a really bad one.
> 
> 16 years is a long time to be pulling this hurt around with you. It's time for a real soul searching moment and find out what YOU want...if it's to work it out with your wife then great...but I will have to tell you...since its been 16 years...starting back at square one will be like pulling teeth for your wife.
> 
> ...


Believe me...I agree...and I don't like ANY 'counselors'. I cannot stand being told that they "know how I feel"....because they don't. Just before all the problems started...I was diagnosed with clinical depression & anxiety.....I saw a psychiatrist....and loathed being told that they know where I'm coming from. The only person capable of saying that to me...would be someone with the same affliction!! 

I agree that it feels that years have been robbed from me. At this point in my life (just turned 50)....I'm pissed off about all that I've not been able to enjoy. 

What I really want...and based on all that I've read, may not be able to have again...is to love my wife like I did when we first met. I miss that so much that it physically hurts. Simple stuff like looking into her eyes (_it was my main attraction to her_)...I can't do because I have all this baggage. I want all that back....but I also really need her to realize how bad I'm hurting...both by her action...and the lack of sincere remorse on her part. That damn therapist empowered her with the ability to think that ALL the things that happened...were a joint effort.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> I don't see how you can however think she loves you. Her actions are nothing shrt of emotionally and mentally abusive.
> 
> You have been suffering under her basic emotional abuse and imprisonment for over 16 years. You're likely suffering from a pile of issues since the therapist twisted things so badly to tell you that you were responsible for your wife cheating, and in fact you should be happy she did it. Seriously WTF?
> 
> ...


.....I agree that the therapist was guilty of twisting the facts / situation to my wife's advantage.....I'd also now say she was guilty of professional incompetence & misconduct.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Well, the scenario you described could be one, but there are many other reasons why you would be better off knowing the truth. At this point, regardless of her biological truth, she is your daughter and you are her dad. But, in dealing with your W's A 16 yrs ago, checking her paternity should be the first step to take.

Much of recovering from A is digging for the truth, most of which were deprived of from you all these years. So, that has to be your first step. After that, you must demand your W to tell you the truth of what exactly happened: the nitty gritty details of A. Trust me you will have to push her very very hard, because most of her answers will be "I don't remember", which you should not accept. If she cannot remember, that's her problem. You have to be relentless. Good luck.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The lack of sex followed by her having no passion makes me seriously think she is still having affairs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Have you ever told your wife this? Maybe you have, but she hasn't heard you. I think you should print this out and give it to her.

If she loves you, she will reach out to you.

Todd




Hurtin_Still said:


> ...so it seems like as good a time as any to write something about my experience.
> 
> Before I begin....let me say hello. I've been looking around on the net recently (5 to 6 weeks) about how to deal with infidelity...because what happened years ago is still haunting me today. It seems that I have gathered the most pertinent information here on this board...hence my reason for being here now. To all those here that put their information...feelings (good or bad), and advice out there for me to look at...I send out a heart-felt "Thank You". (I’m also not too familiar with all the abbreviations…so please bear with my ‘long-hand’)
> 
> ...


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

For 16 years, you have been lied to, disrespected, and dismissed by the person who should have had your back. You’ve put up with her crap for a long time, but it’s not too late. You can’t love and respect someone else when you’ve lost respect and love for yourself.

I am knew to this horrible infidelity club which no one wants to belong to, but I can tell you that I feel a lot better about myself and the direction my life is headed in the future since I took charge and stopped letting her set the rules for recovery.

If I were you, I would get a DNA test done on your youngest child to settle your doubts once and for all. Do not tell your WW or ask for her permission. Just do it. Next, I would make a list of all the questions I needed answered including OM’s name, date’s for affair, details of what they did, and how long since her last contact with OM. I would then give them to her and tell her that you need those answered honestly during a polygraph for you to stay in the marriage. I would then inform her that anything short of complete compliance to your requests will lead to you immediately filing divorce papers. Do not make idle threats. Be prepared to follow through if she balks at your request.

Draw a line in the sand and make her commit to recovery or get out. You have spent 16 years letting her run you around in circles and lie to you either blatantly or by omission of key information that you need to recover. Don’t waste 1 more second of your life living in this kind pain. Life is much too short.

I’m sorry if I seem harsh, but I wish someone would have knocked some sense into me much sooner after d-day and I could have been spared a lot of pain.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> Have you ever told your wife this? Maybe you have, but she hasn't heard you. I think you should print this out and give it to her.
> 
> If she loves you, she will reach out to you.
> 
> Todd


...these issues have been discussed numerous times over the years. If you think it's well written and concise enough...perhaps I will print it out before I have the forthcoming conversation with her. I really need to talk with her about the bad dream I had that triggered all these recent intense flash-backs and mind-movies. I'm not living with all this pain for the rest of my life.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> What I really want...and based on all that I've read, may not be able to have again...is to love my wife like I did when we first met. I miss that so much that it physically hurts. Simple stuff like looking into her eyes (_it was my main attraction to her_)...I can't do because I have all this baggage. I want all that back....but I also really need her to realize how bad I'm hurting...both by her action...and the lack of sincere remorse on her part. That damn therapist empowered her with the ability to think that ALL the things that happened...were a joint effort.




People change all the time. What was can never be again. Her innocence had evaporated and cant be recovered.

I would think that an adult woman like your wife would had developed a solid moral compass by her mid or late 30's. Obviously not if she can be so easily betray you.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I think a home paternity test is under 100 dollars. If Im not mistaken Ive seen them at Wal Mart...

As many have suggested, You HAVE TO DO THIS.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

aug said:


> People change all the time. What was can never be again. Her innocence had evaporated and cant be recovered.
> 
> I would think that an adult woman like your wife would had developed a solid moral compass by her mid or late 30's. Obviously not if she can be so easily betray you.


That's something I can't figure....

She was always one to be quite judgmental about others questionable moral make-up....including the "who's my sperm-donor-of-the-week" women that lived in our development.

The loss of "our innocence"....is huge for me.....in particular because she's the only woman I'd ever been with. And although no one can really _own_ anyone else...she was "mine", and that meant the world to me. She's told me that she is "still mine"....but it's not the same of course.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> What I really want...and based on all that I've read, may not be able to have again...is to love my wife like I did when we first met. I miss that so much that it physically hurts. Simple stuff like looking into her eyes (_it was my main attraction to her_)...I can't do because I have all this baggage. I want all that back....but I also really need her to realize how bad I'm hurting...both by her action...and the lack of sincere remorse on her part. That damn therapist empowered her with the ability to think that ALL the things that happened...were a joint effort.


Unfortunately there is no way you can regain the innocence of your past love.

Fortunately you have the chance to rid yourself of the 16 years of burden you have been holding onto. It is time you take charge of your emotional health by grabbing the reigns for this wagon and driving it to your new destination. 

The idea is YOU are heading towards recovery and she can join you if she likes (which it seems you want), if she chooses to still ignore, deflect or sweep under the rug...then she can stay behind. Either way it is time for YOU to shine.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Unfortunately there is no way you can regain the innocence of your past love.
> 
> Fortunately you have the chance to rid yourself of the 16 years of burden you have been holding onto. It is time you take charge of your emotional health by grabbing the reigns for this wagon and driving it to your new destination.
> 
> The idea is YOU are heading towards recovery and she can join you if she likes (which it seems you want), if she chooses to still ignore, deflect or sweep under the rug...then she can stay behind. Either way it is time for YOU to shine.



.....really appreciate your insight and the info offered on the blog. I certainly need to start a new journey...there's lots of life left...and as you said...she can come along or...not.

I wonder...at this point...if the relationship can be treated as something completely new (as if we just met)?....of course...contingent upon her understanding exactly what I've been feeling...and she shows honest remorse.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

If you want the rest of your life to be different........change.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> .....I wonder...at this point...if the relationship can be treated as something completely new (as if we just met)?....of course...contingent upon her understanding exactly what I've been feeling...and she shows honest remorse.


:iagree::iagree:

Sounds like your on the right path. It can be something completely new, BUT it all starts with her remorse.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

Initfortheduration said:


> If you want the rest of your life to be different........change.


....easier said than done. Hell...I freaked out when they changed the recipe of Coke to the "New Coke".....but I'm trying



Geoffrey Marsh said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> Sounds like your on the right path. It can be something completely new, BUT it all starts with her remorse.


....I hope so...the "work" on my part is to get her to understand that her actions, were NOT motivated by anything that I did. (_and consequently having my brain let go of any notion that I was to blame, regardless of how many times that she or the therapist said that it was_). She needs to understand how insecure / self-conscious that she's made me regarding sex. She needs to understand that I will become angry / agitated when certain things trigger the past.

It seems that getting someone to be truly remorseful....shouldn't involve GETTING them to feel that way. Or am I wrong with that assessment? 

I just have a gut feeling that the answers I will get from her..will have the theme of: "You really want to go over all this again"....."You want to punish me...don't you"?....."This won't be better if you keep bringing it up".

....ya' know...the more I type....the more angry I get. I'm trying to be reasonable...calm..."cerebral"..about all this, because I KNOW that it needs to be dealt with..for MY sake. I'm so internally furious that this was not dealt with...properly....at the beginning.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Until she understands that you want truth and contrition and not avoidance. Tell her "This will not get better until I know the whole truth. If she can't accept it. Tell her to hit the bricks until she stops the petulant crap.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ....easier said than done. Hell...I freaked out when they changed the recipe of Coke to the "New Coke".....but I'm trying
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't make her understand anything and you can't make her be remorseful. 

You simply have to stand up for yourself. Explain to her that since this was never resolved years ago that you need to put it to bed once and for all. To do that you need decide what exactly you need from her to be able to move on. If she is unwilling to comply then you need to be prepared to move on without her.

She had no incentive to work with you because you have been a doormat for all these years. She and this counselor walked all over you and because of that you were never able to deal with the issues involved and move past her infidelity. She has to knos that you mean business and will follow through so don't make threats that you aren't prepared to keep if she refuses to help you.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

If you feel awkward bring up the incident 16 years old communicating how serious the matter is to you, then I suggest you may want to write it all down in a long letter and give it to her.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

You'll get some great info here and you'll also get some not so great info here. It is your life however, so it is you that has to take matters into your own hand and start resolving these issues. I guess the only thing I would tell you, and this the great advice part, quit running. I wish you the best and God bless.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Start by saying ". 16 years ago you broke your wedding vows and cheated. That hurt me deeply. The so called councilor and you convinced me to just accept stand let you getaway with it, without consequence to you. Unfortunately for the last 16 years I have felt the consequence of your cheating and the hurt over and over. Ignoring the humiliation and the pain isn't something I can continue to do.

You have a choice, we can together go to a good councilor to help us through this, or we can end this relationship. I canno longer catlike nothing happened. It did happen. You deliberately cheated. And you made me feel like it was my fault. You also belittled how it hurt me, and denied me any way of working through it. If you actually love me, then I am giving you a chance to show me and to help me. If you can't or won't , then I guess I know how true and strong that love really is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

Like a jigsaw, wifey has the full picture and all the pieces. You have nothing other than 1 piece, the picture of the pub and of course a blank piece in the form of an unknown figure ...the OM. This coupled with a date out of sinc that doesn't match up in this 16year old puzzle means this additional piece is very important - your daughter - whom you say is very special to you. Anything you do must protect her.

16 years on and all the pieces are still missing and you still haven't even seen a glimpse of the picture. That situation has to change. Your wife has to recognise that in order to heal you need the full picture and the pieces that matter.

Only you know the pieces that are necessary to move on and heal. The full picture maybe too much for you to handle given your past medical depression. Of course, having all the pieces might lift the huge burden you have been carrying around for 16 years. 

Either way, if your wife loves you she should stand by you and help you heal. If not, then shock treatment maybe all that she understands. Heading for the divorce courts can be expensive but as a last resort maybe necessary. You can withdraw at a later date. She needs to know you are serious about wanting to heal this constantly open wound.

At least you have your wife to ascertain the story, many BS never ever get the chance to know because the DS left for AP and to an extent you are in that situatuin but with wife still on tow. 

Best of luck.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

Lazarus said:


> Like a jigsaw, wifey has the full picture and all the pieces. You have nothing other than 1 piece, the picture of the pub and of course a blank piece in the form of an unknown figure ...the OM. This coupled with a date out of sinc that doesn't match up in this 16year old puzzle means this additional piece is very important - your daughter - whom you say is very special to you. Anything you do must protect her.
> 
> 16 years on and all the pieces are still missing and you still haven't even seen a glimpse of the picture. That situation has to change. Your wife has to recognise that in order to heal you need the full picture and the pieces that matter.
> 
> ...


....just had a long conversation with her about all this. Much of what I've learned over the past several years (phrases, definitions...etc) regarding infidelity..I was able to utilize in my conversation. It felt good to be somewhat intelligent for a change.

To begin with...she knows (has known) that I'm angry. She knows that it's "probably about what happened" (_she never refers to her actions in any "know" terms..like cheating, adultery, infidelity_). The communications between us were stagnating in this conversation...because she does not want to address the issue. I finally became furious..and said to her that I've been dying inside for 16 years....and it's because you "f__ked around with someone else, and that the therapist saddled me with part of the blame for your actions". 

I explained how I recently experienced a major trigger several weeks ago (a dream...in which I was chasing after her...with a gun [not to worry btw...I don't own a gun]..and shooting at her legs /ankles(wtf?)...because I found out she was cheating on me).

She doesn't want to see that the resulting pain from her actions are still with me...because there was no disclosure about what, who, how, when. She claims that she doesn't remember....yet she knows the guys name...but won't tell me.."because I'm too crazy". She claims to have NO idea if there was a condom involved...and also says that the claims I made about the date of my daughter's birth "not working"...are not true, and all in my head. She feels that if I have all the details of the encounter...that it'll make it worse.."because you need serious help / counseling"...I was told. So now it's back on ME...it's all about ME...I'm the only one having a problem with this.

She really doesn't want to go into this anymore is what I'm seeing. I was told that if I can't handle / get beyond this...then we'll get a divorce...because SHE's not going to live like this and continue to be punished. I told her that she NEVER was punished...she was never made to express any serious "get down on your knees and be sorry" type of remorse. (figure of speech on my part). 

I really don't know where this is going. She knows that I'm at the end of the line for having to suffer and wonder what transpired. We'll see what's the next step.......I really need a large adult beverage right now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So...you have been to ONE counselor - who after all is only a human - and you've determined that COUNSELORS cannot help you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fwiw, and I don't usually suggest this, what YOU need right now is to separate and learn who YOU are. And show to her that YOU are a valid, valuable human being who deserves as much respect as SHE thinks SHE deserves.

She will never respect you until you respect yourself.


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## wiser11 (Jul 9, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> .... I'm having a really difficult time with the inner angst /anger that I'm harboring. Usually over the past 16 years....*if it's too bad...I'll have a short sob in the shower when I wake up*...and then it's behind me for the day. I really have a problem with this...and I see that it's affected my life in the negative sense over these many years. I actually have major anxiety attacks when I try to summon the strenght to approach her to get it out in the light. Because I know...she'll tell me that it's "_all in my head_"...or that _"the only time I think of it/him..is when you bring it up"._
> I'm sorry...but I don't buy it. If there was ONLY one other person that she's slept with besides me, and it happened ONCE, I'd be pretty sure that she'd remember it.
> .


Hurtin Still - I can't tell u how sorry I am to hear what you have suffered. Just wanting to say that I think I can understand where you are coming from as I have similar issues in that my husband gave me an STD decades ago which almost certainly led to the death of my unborn children and my (male)doctor at that time appears to have colluded with him to hide from me the fact that I had an STD (this STD is known to lead to misscarriage in pregnant women) 

I can particulary identify with the crying in the bathroom thing coz I have done this countless times, even before I made the realisation about the STD, coz my gut told me something just wasnt right and that I didnt have his full effort and commitment in the marriage. 

Even though it has taken 16 long years I do APPLAUD you for having confronted your wife about this and know how hard this must have been for you. I myself am still in a state of paralysis and shock several months after realising what happened all those years ago and have yet to confront my H. 

Knowing that you have found the courage to confront your wife is inspiring to me and I know I must now take the next step of getting some IC so that I too can make start to move forward. 

You and I are around the same age and after so many wasted years we deserve some happiness. I sincerely wish you all the best - be strong and let us know how things pan out for you.

big hug from me to you.


my story is here 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28373-dont-recognise-my-h-myself.html


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Time to call her bluff. She will not tell you what you need to know and tells you if you don't like it then file for divorce. She thinks you will not do it. My prediction is if you file for divorce she will tell you everything and she will gain respect for you. Right now she has no respect for you and sees you as afraid to actually separate. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I agree with bryan. I would file. Because she won't address the situation that has brought you pain for the last 16 years. Since she obviously isn't willing to help with your healing, its time to make some hard decisions or remain in a state of pain for the rest of your life.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

One WORD sums up your wife---SELFISH


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Your wife needs a wake up call. 

For _her_ to threaten divorce if "the incident that shall not be named" is brought up, could mean she is still in foggy la la land or truly no longer wishes to be married. She is either making an empty threat to manipulate you to acquiesce or delibertly being obstuse to gain a divorce. 

How you want the next 16 years to go is up to you, it's actually your call. If she is unwilling to give you what you need to heal, then there's no point in staying married. If you have to heal without her help, then you're better off doing it alone as a single man. Your wife only has her own interests at heart, not yours or your marriage. If you and marriage mean so little to her, then give her what she wants and let her go.

Do what is right for you. Depending on your actions now, next year at this time, your 16 years of hurt doesn't have to become 17 years of hurt. You could be on the road to recovery with full disclosure of your wife's infidelity or you could be divorced finding a new life in being single. Either way, it will be a change and a change is what you need to be whole again.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I agree with posters to call it bluff and ask for D. If not D, at least ask for Separation. She must be shaken hard to realize the true damage she's done to you. Why do you want to stay married to someone who did this to you and shows such lack of remorse and understanding of your pain. You must find anger in yourself.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

wiser11 said:


> Hurtin Still - I can't tell u how sorry I am to hear what you have suffered. Just wanting to say that I think I can understand where you are coming from as I have similar issues in that my husband gave me an STD decades ago which almost certainly led to the death of my unborn children and my (male)doctor at that time appears to have colluded with him to hide from me the fact that I had an STD (this STD is known to lead to misscarriage in pregnant women)
> 
> I can particulary identify with the crying in the bathroom thing coz I have done this countless times, even before I made the realisation about the STD, coz my gut told me something just wasnt right and that I didnt have his full effort and commitment in the marriage.
> 
> ...


....I'm so sorry for your double dose of pain. I certainly appreciate your support....thanks for "the hug"....that's something we all could use more of.




Saffron said:


> Your wife needs a wake up call.
> 
> For _her_ to threaten divorce if "the incident that shall not be named" is brought up, could mean she is still in foggy la la land or truly no longer wishes to be married. She is either making an empty threat to manipulate you to acquiesce or delibertly being obstuse to gain a divorce.
> 
> ...



....I agree that how she's acting is completely manipulative and selfish and un-fair...and as such...it's tearing me apart inside. And as determined as I was / am to finally address this...I got so little info from her the other day, even after I told her how hurt I still was...and how furious I had become. Her stand is that, "_it was so long ago...and....how will knowing anything now, change anything_". The info that I had got over the years (mostly long ago...when I found out) was this:

He was younger than her...he was blonde...he was "just different" from me...he was divorced / separated....he lived in the next town over from ours.

Regarding the sexual aspect...it was once...a one night stand...the very night she met him. She was drinking...and therefore doesn't remember any details (hence..as I mentioned not knowing if a condom was used). She says that she couldn't remember if she was completely un-clothed...if oral had occured...position...etc.

According to her...(and this was told to me in the presence of that sh!tty therapist long ago).."_it was just sex..and it was over in 5 minutes"._ (I find that last bit of info _*so*_ hard to believe...and damaging to me...and maybe it's just because I'm an a$$hole who's only had sex with one woman in my life?) After hearing that last bit of info, and being the a$$ that I am..I was affected so profoundly...that at any time that the wife and I had sex after that point...I kept an eye on a clock near our bed...so as to make sure that nothing I ever did with her lasted only 5 minutes. And it's not like sex was EVER like that before. She was always either amazed, curious...or confused...how I'd be able to "last" for like an hour or more...be able to "finish"..and still erect be ready to go again. Since the infidelity...many times I'd never get to an orgasm because I was so focused on doing "a good job" on her..and trying to give her as much pleasure as possible..with zero thoughts of myself and to attempt erase any thoughts of someone else from her mind. 

In our recent conversation, I once again brought up stuff she's said to me, maybe two or three years after the O.N.S. (_so proud I can abbreviate that!...not)_. We were once in the bedroom and I was getting undressed...(_not something I normally do/did in front of her because I'm not the male-model-porn-star type and am quite self-conscious_)...and she made a remark as I had my back to her, "_Oh..what...you don't want me to see you below-average sized penis_". She claims that she never said that...but...tell me if I'm wrong here (guys in particular)...would that be something that you'd make up in your head..or think about yourself? Therefore I also now have increased self-consious / doubt issues related to penis size and adequacy in satisfying her.

With all these seeds of info & doubt that got planted in my brain....I was now having to now compete against the perceived sexual ability of someone else. I also mentioned that to my wife, to which she said, "_I was being ridiculous and she never had any problems with my sexual performance_". She added, _"most people have several different sexual relationships before they get married...so...how would I have dealt with that if it was the case with us?"_ Yes...I suppose that we were not "most people"? I know it's not the norm as far as most people these days and sexual activity...but I kinda' thought it was special (yes...I'm one of those sentimental / romantic kinds)....and it was something that I could say was all mine...but it's something lost forever...and perhaps the reason it hurts all that much more. In this relationship...she's now the only one with a sexual focal-point for comparison.

I also think that she's a bit more cavalier now...saying, "_fine...we'll get divorced....we'll default on the house...and that'll be it_". She's in a better financial positon than years ago...and can basically say, "f__k it". I also wonder if her mind-set is as such because she's been seeing a therapist once a week? I asked her what she talks about (she's been very depressed...hence the reason for her going for about a year now.). She said that she discussed my "anger issues"...amongst other topics. But she's NEVER brought up the stuff about the affair!! (one of the prime reasons behind the anger). 

I've so far gotten a whole slew of good advice here..but...am I going too far to want to know details...am I going to regret it?...or has anyone been in "a better place" for going on this path?

...sorry if I'm "all over the map" sometimes. It's tough to be journalistically organized when there's so much mental baggage tumbling around in the cargo hold of my brain.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, just because you're the romantic type, it doesn't mean she needs to be. Stop judging her based on what YOU want or expect. She's not you.

That said, her attitude is quite cavalier, which makes me suspect that she is not as sweet and innocent as you think she is. Have you snooped to verify she never goes outside the marriage?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Bottom line, the ONLY way this is ever going to go away is if you two go to a new, GOOD counselor.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

1. She knows exactly what happened.
2. Her comment about your penis size was meant to humiliate you.
3. She has already broken you down for 16 years. Enough is enough. You deserve better.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

bryanp said:


> 1. She knows exactly what happened.
> 2. Her comment about your penis size was meant to humiliate you.
> 3. She has already broken you down for 16 years. Enough is enough. You deserve better.


This. Simple and straight to the point.

Your wife is toxic -- and that's why you cant heal. There must be better woman out there for you.

Anyways, you have control over your situation. You decide whether you want to move on or not. Dont stretch it out too long.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

You deserve more out of life than this. We all do.

Don't you think you've suffered long enough...?


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> You deserve more out of life than this. We all do.
> 
> Don't you think you've suffered long enough...?


Every time I read this thread I am reminded of the scene from Animal House where the Omega’s are paddling there pledges and the pledges keep saying “ Thank you sir may I have another.”

Your wife has disrespected, demeaned, and trampled on your self esteem to the point where you are fearful to stand up for yourself. You have been given some great advice on this thread. The only question remaining is will you stand up for yourself and demand the truth from her or will you continue to allow her to gaslight you and beat you down.

To me it’s not her decision to make as to whether the truth will help you are not. That’s your decision and it’s your RIGHT to know the truth about your life.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

At some point, the issue stops being her A, and it instead is her utter disrespect and selfishness. I don't think you should consider D based on her 16 year old ONS , but you must ask yourself if you want to live the rest of your life with this abusive, yes abusive, attitude of hers. She seems to think so little of you and your marriage.

Either you find a good MC who understands your pain and resentment better, or demand D based on her "adultery".


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Agree with posters that it is no longer just the issue of her affair from 16 years ago, it's her treatment of you since then that is grounds for divorce. 

I'm sorry, but your wife's comments make her sound almost proud of her ONS and her sexual experience. I find it appalling that she would demean you by commenting on penis size and I'm sure you're right that she said it. One does NOT forget comments like that, especially by someone who's supposed to love you.

For your wife to be so casual about sex and its meaningfulness is revealing. It's a fine attitude for someone who is not in a monogamous relationship, but marriage isn't about "just sex", especially outside of the relationship. So it is a big deal.

You really need to decide what is best for your future. She does not sound understanding or remorseful of the pain you're feeling. It's no way to live. It's hard enough to recover from infidelity when there is remorse, but to have the DS be so callous would make it impossible.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There ARE other women out there just dying to find a good man who will be truthful and monogamous. Don't forget that. If you leave her, you WILL find someone who will cherish and love you, not put you down and make the two biggest sins a wife can make.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So if it's just sex and it doesn't matter, what has stopped her from doing it again ? And why would she be able to get angry if you went out and just had sex?

She is selfish, arrogant, mean, and acting entitled.

She is an abusive person, what do you need in your life to be safe secure and happy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

When do abused people realize that they are abused? 

I mean its one thing to be punched in the face, thats pretty much a clear "HEY HELLO!!! YOUR BEING ABUSED!!!"... 

but in situations like this one, I wonder if the systematic abuse over decades when it's watered down by the abused person's coping mechinisms (survival, denial, fear, etc..) get taken for granted, they get so adjusted to that being the norm that they just dont even register the truth...

let this sink in...

*You are a victim, an abused spouse.*


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A good way to see it clearly is to write down the facts, and pretend that it's your brother or friend who is telling you these facts. What would you tell HIM?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ...so it seems like as good a time as any to write something about my experience.
> 
> Before I begin....let me say hello. I've been looking around on the net recently (5 to 6 weeks) about how to deal with infidelity...because what happened years ago is still haunting me today. It seems that I have gathered the most pertinent information here on this board...hence my reason for being here now. To all those here that put their information...feelings (good or bad), and advice out there for me to look at...I send out a heart-felt "Thank You". (I’m also not too familiar with all the abbreviations…so please bear with my ‘long-hand’)
> 
> ...


By staying with your wife, you are abusing yourself. Can’t you see that?

As far as we know, we only have one life. Do you really want your abusive wife to define the one life you have? You’ve plenty of time to get out and create another life for yourself. But there will come a time when you wont have the energy and you really will be trapped, unable to change anything in your life.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You did not answer the question about knowing if your wife has been faithful the last sixteen years. You said she still goes to the bar where she met the other man but you never go there. Who does she go with? I would definitely show up there unexpectedly to see what was going on trigger or not. 

Do you track her computer,cell phone, texting, facebook etc.?

While what happened is horrible She has stayed with you for the last 16 years. I don't understand why you did not realize what a bad counselor you had and done your best to find a second opinion. 

The one night stand was her drunken decision but you have not done enough to work this out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You still let her go out to bars? WTH!


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

LostCPA said:


> Every time I read this thread I am reminded of the scene from Animal House where the Omega’s are paddling there pledges and the pledges keep saying “ Thank you sir may I have another.”
> 
> Your wife has disrespected, demeaned, and trampled on your self esteem to the point where you are fearful to stand up for yourself. You have been given some great advice on this thread. The only question remaining is will you stand up for yourself and demand the truth from her or will you continue to allow her to gaslight you and beat you down.
> 
> To me it’s not her decision to make as to whether the truth will help you are not. That’s your decision and it’s your RIGHT to know the truth about your life.


....there have been some abbreviated conversations since the other night's "marathon conversation". She KNOWS without a doubt how hurt I am....and that I won't stand for this too much longer. And, I think my revealing to her the info about the dream I had which that triggered this latest round of exposed angst...has got her thinking. Rather than me taking the "bull in a china shop approach" with her...it seems that my calmer...cooler conversational and focused attitude is getting through to her...finally. 



sadcalifornian said:


> At some point, the issue stops being her A, and it instead is her utter disrespect and selfishness. I don't think you should consider D based on her 16 year old ONS , but you must ask yourself if you want to live the rest of your life with this abusive, yes abusive, attitude of hers. She seems to think so little of you and your marriage.
> 
> Either you find a good MC who understands your pain and resentment better, or demand D based on her "adultery".


....at this point...I'm not considereing..or threatening her with diviorce. I agree (now) that her attitude...I suppose, would be considered "passive-abusive"(?)....in that she' chosen to put it in her past...without any consideration of how my mind has held onto it and has continued to inflict hurt upon me. She WILL now understand that even though I still love her...that this will stay with me, perhaps for the rest of my life. She'll need to also understand that there are things that will trigger memories more than others...and if I hit that stretch of sh!tty mood...she needs to be supportive...not resentful of the fact that I can't wipe the memory-slate completely blank...and that I'm not "_doing it to punish her_"



Saffron said:


> Agree with posters that it is no longer just the issue of her affair from 16 years ago, it's her treatment of you since then that is grounds for divorce.
> 
> I'm sorry, but your wife's comments make her sound almost proud of her ONS and her sexual experience. I find it appalling that she would demean you by commenting on penis size and I'm sure you're right that she said it. One does NOT forget comments like that, especially by someone who's supposed to love you.
> 
> ...


.....I can't tell if she's "proud" of her A....or...as I sometimes see in her eyes...very ashamed and uncomfortable about it? And..she claims to this day that she didn't make a derogatory comment about my penis size. It's not true either...based on what info that's out there and some research that I did..(_as I felt compelled to do for my own edification._.)....I fall right on the size-line for what's considered "average". Hooray...I'm average...what a relief. I'm somewhat "proud"...that regardless of her comment...that I've held to the higher road and never commented negatively or in anger about her weight. Perhaps that will be seein as something in my favor as I discuss with her how hurtful her comment was and how it's impacted on my over-all low self-confidence levels. 





Shaggy said:


> So if it's just sex and it doesn't matter, what has stopped her from doing it again ? And why would she be able to get angry if you went out and just had sex?
> 
> She is selfish, arrogant, mean, and acting entitled.
> 
> ...


....since the A...she's gained the weight back that she had lost prior...and then some. So..her being a very self-conscious insecure person wasn't helped out by that. I'm almost certain that the one time....was just that.(I have no choice but to accept that now) Believe me...I had several situations where I could have had sex with someone else. But knowing what I do about the pain which can be inflicted by such actions...I'd never want to be "the other guy". I have too much baggage now to want to deal with added guilt.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hurtin_Still said:


> She WILL now understand that even though I still love her...that this will stay with me, perhaps for the rest of my life. She'll need to also understand that there are things that will trigger memories more than others...and if I hit that stretch of sh!tty mood...she needs to be supportive...not resentful of the fact that I can't wipe the memory-slate completely blank...and that I'm not "_doing it to punish her_"


So what?

This sounds like passive aggressive BS. I TOLD her she's hurting me so now she'd better stop. So there.

Why should she?

What have YOU done to provide consequences to her bad behavior? Told her she hurts your feelings? Oh no, not THAT!



> ....since the A...she's gained the weight back that she had lost prior...and then some. So..her being a very self-conscious insecure person wasn't helped out by that.


Here's a place where you can do something proactive that can have good results. Find something the two of you can do that is physical. Go hiking, walk the dog, buy a canoe...start doing something together that will, over time, help her lose weight and feel good about herself so she stops taking pot shots at YOU to make HERSELF feel better.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

chapparal said:


> You did not answer the question about knowing if your wife has been faithful the last sixteen years. You said she still goes to the bar where she met the other man but you never go there. Who does she go with? I would definitely show up there unexpectedly to see what was going on trigger or not.
> 
> Do you track her computer,cell phone, texting, facebook etc.?
> 
> ...



She went there with friends that I know well (several families wives + husbands...and their kids after a local sporting event)....so...the chance that anything could happen was really not there. I was just completely furious that she'd go there...regardless of the circumstances.

Her computer is completely wide open...as is her facebook and other social media sites. I have access to the entire computer...as she does to mine.

I'm in the process of seeking a counselor. I don't know if it will be for joint sessions..her included...or if it's just for me to get help in coping. I saw someone several years back while dealing with the depression & anxiety....I'm looking him up to see if he's still in practice in this area.

Let me say that...I'm not perfect. A couselor could probably help me in this matter...and other areas too. I was not the perfect husband...I didn't pay enough attention to her...I can be "scary angry"..and loud when upset (I'm an admitted yeller...but never a hitter)....and there wasn't enough "us" time. But the "us" time went both ways too...right? I was dealing...or not dealing with depression prior to the A...so maybe I became disconnected?...I really don't know?...but...it's still not an excuse for her actions.



turnera said:


> You still let her go out to bars? WTH!


...do I let her?...she's 47 yrs old. She hardly needs my permission if she wanted to. If she does go out...it's with close family friends....and she will not drink and drive..at all. I can't be everywhere...everyday...to keep her in my sights. I know that in a perfect world that would be the best thing...but it's obviusly not a perfect world. I won't lie or refuse to say that it hurts...it does. I'll always need to worry...because the trust is broken, there's just so much you can do about it.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> Here's a place where you can do something proactive that can have good results. Find something the two of you can do that is physical. Go hiking, walk the dog, buy a canoe...start doing something together that will, over time, help her lose weight and feel good about herself so she stops taking pot shots at YOU to make HERSELF feel better.


....I'd love to do that. She's been on several diets...and I've gone right along with her for support (_it's a b!tch to be the only one in a house that's on a diet...I know_). I also do most of the cooking (I'm not forced to...I'm an excellent cook)...so I can control the ingredient...making stuff that's healtier. I need to lose a bunch of weight too (like 60 lbs)...so it's something we'd be able to share.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Hurtin, it almost sounds as if you learned to love your misery in those 16 years. Shake it off! Follow some good advice provided here.

Your wife will not turn into a better person suddenly if you beg her just a bit more.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There's letting a wife go to a bar and there's 'letting' a wife go to a bar.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You have brought up quite a few issues on this thread. Below is a link to a thread in the Men's Clubhouse. Follow the links and read as much as you can even before you find a counselor. This is to help you. As a byproduct it should help your marriage too. 

Three books you should buy are "Love Busters", "His Needs Her Needs" and "The Five Love Languages".

Most of all drop the anger routine. Its a relationship killer among other things. Good Luck



http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html



Deejo's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 3,282

Default The Man Up and Nice Guy Reference
"I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?"

All of the following links address an array of questions that pertain to men changing their behavior with a goal of improving how they are perceived by their partners and themselves.

If you are in a sex starved relationship, if you can't understand why your woman is pulling away despite the fact that you hold her up on a pedestal and do everything in your power to please her and make her happy, then odds are that you will either see yourself and your relationship in these threads, or you will find information that will be useful in attempting to recover it.

While recognizing that there are any number of ways that our relationships fail, these particular topics are geared towards recovering a sense of health and balance within ourselves and our failing marriages and relationships.

Feel free to recommend other appropriate threads and we can add them to the list.

None of the information here is intended to address significant emotional disorders, such as anxiety, depression, addiction or other mental illness. Please seek professional help if you suspect that any of these are a factor in your relationship.

Mens Clubhouhouse - Fitness Tests

Mens Clubhouse - I need to Man Up

Mens Clubhouse - Does Your Wife Ever Initiate Sex?

Mens Clubhouse - Wife Denies ... I Don't Buy is just one story detailing the arc of infidelity and the common emotions and behaviors associated.

Mens Clubhouse - Manly Ways to Work on Yourself

Mens Clubhouse - Modern Men

Sex in Marriage - Husbands who are not Dominate enough & Wives who are - how to reverse roles?

Sex in Marriage - Wife Doesn't Like Sex?

The Mens Clubhouse - What Advice to Tell My Sons About Marriage

Mens Clubhouse - Nice Guys and Other Types

Mens Clubhouse - Man Up Books

Ladies Lounge - Do Women Want a Dominant Man?

Ladies Lounge - Dominance

Mens Clubhouse - How About Them Apples?

General Relationship Discussion - Elle Magazine on Sexless Marriages

Married Man Sex Life A blog maintained by TAM contributor AtholK


Still don't know if you're a Nice Guy, but your wife left you, or your date hasn't returned your calls and your home reading the forum?
So how do we know that the stigma of being a nice guy is real or has any validity whatsoever? Easy. It's on Wikipedia so it must be true ...


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

snap said:


> Hurtin, it almost sounds as if you learned to love your misery in those 16 years. Shake it off! Follow some good advice provided here.
> 
> Your wife will not turn into a better person suddenly if you beg her just a bit more.


...definitely agree that there has been misery....I disagree that I've "leared to love it". Something...after all the years....has recently kicked off a major trigger...and here's where I am today. If I was loving this....I wouldn't be taking the recent steps that I have.

I'm discussing this ad nauseum with the wife...regardless if she wants to or not. It's her turn to hopefully get to REALLY understand my pain. I think that when she saw that I was looking up a therapist.....a little bit of reality set in for her. She sees that I am going to do something about all this....and the end result is an unfinished story. We may work this out...or she may find herself without me around. And...I'm definitely not begging her for anything...I'm doing what I needed to to do long ago. The results are yet to be seen....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There's nothing more attractive to a woman than a man doing what he needs to do.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> There's nothing more attractive to a woman than a man doing what he needs to do.


So, if that's true....and use that ideal as my guiding light:


....my embarking on self-help therapy

....my attempt at getting her to really understand MY side of all this

....my endeavor to lose about 50 lbs (_heck..if I lose only 25...I'll do a cartwheel...albeit...gingerly_)

....my uber-push to grow my business better (_I was forcebly made "self-employed" 3 years ago_)

..._*should*_ result in her seeing me as dead-sexy



_(if I can't keep a sense of humor...then I just might as well hang up the keys to life right now)_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> So, if that's true....and use that ideal as my guiding light:
> 
> 
> ....my embarking on self-help therapy
> ...



No, women are attracted to men who will NOT tolerate their sh!t and are more than willing to dump them for it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I will say that both you AND morituri are correct.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

after 16 years of being the whipping boy, she probably sees your actions more like a 'slave revolt' or 'uprising'... the inconvienience of having the 'help' out front picketing must be dreadful for her. She'll prolly need to increase your rations and 'pet' you more so you get back in line.

lol.

Rememeber,


Hurtin_Still said:


> _(if I can't keep a sense of humor...then I just might as well hang up the keys to life right now)_


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