# cheating remorsful wife ?



## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

hello guys i hope someone could help me by giving me 
-threats or profils of a wife who cheated and remorsful and trying to win her husband back 
-many thanks in advance


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

tears thread is the best one i can think of. 

Clay


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Clay2013 said:


> tears thread is the best one i can think of.
> 
> Clay


Another still ongoing by - Un_Amor_Perdido. Last post July 7, 2014. 

Tears may be in the private section.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

imjustwatching said:


> hello guys i hope someone could help me by giving me
> -threats or profils of a wife who cheated and remorsful and trying to win her husband back
> -many thanks in advance


Why do you ask?


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Why do you ask?


well i got a friend who cheated on her husband , and trying to save her marriage and win here husband back 
and she's asking me to help her find some story's about this to figure out how to do it and how it end


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Another still ongoing by - Un_Amor_Perdido. Last post July 7, 2014.
> 
> Tears may be in the private section.


How can i accede to the private section please ?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

imjustwatching said:


> How can i accede to the private section please ?


Sign up,and pay be be a forum supporter, or have a post count of at least 30, I think that's the number. 

Cruise around the threads here. There are some beginners info and other extremely useful tips such as what a cheater can do to help then spouse recover. I do not have links but someone can post this links here it will help a lot.

Also are you,involved in any way other than being a friend who knows all this personal info?


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Sign up,and pay be be a forum supporter, or have a post count of at 30, I think that's the number.
> 
> Cruise around the threads here. There are some beginners info and other extremely useful tips such as what a cheater can do to help then spouse recover. I do not have links but someone can post this links here it will help a lot.
> 
> Also are you,involved in any way other than being a friend who knows all this personal info?


thanks you 
-No juste friends and i didnt know about the affair before ,


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Have her come here and start a thread. There are some great people here that can give her advice to help her. 

Clay


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Clay2013 said:


> Have her come here and start a thread. There are some great people here that can give her advice to help her.
> 
> Clay


I know i told her this , but it's impossible she can't speak english ??? so i'm doing the researchs for her and telling her the story's and the ends


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Btw... Tears was a great example of a spouse showing remorse and trying to fix things, but she was unsuccessful in doing so. Her husband didn't want to reconcile. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

PBear said:


> Btw... Tears was a great example of a spouse showing remorse and trying to fix things, but she was unsuccessful in doing so. Her husband didn't want to reconcile.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't find the threat it's killing me


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

arabic or french?


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

here is the thread, it is in the private section. Just post about 8 more times and you should be able to access.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/52532-i-cheated-my-husband-left.html


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

QUOTE=imjustwatching;9556337]well i got a friend who cheated on her husband , and trying to save her marriage and win here husband back 
and she's asking me to help her find some story's about this to figure out how to do it and how it end[/QUOTE]

EI's thread in CWI is a great example.

EI = Empty Inside.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Is your friend remorseful? Or just looking for examples of how to look the part?

If your friend is remorseful, then she needs to look to the husband she betrayed to figure out what he needs from her. Every situation / person is different.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Just to be clear... Is your friend cheating still?


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Xenote said:


> arabic or french?


she speak both


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Just to be clear... Is your friend cheating still?


No , and i would tell her to stop if it was still happening


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Is your friend remorseful? Or just looking for examples of how to look the part?
> 
> If your friend is remorseful, then she needs to look to the husband she betrayed to figure out what he needs from her. Every situation / person is different.


Yes very very remorsful but he's doing a hardcore 180 and waiting for divorce


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Forest said:


> here is the thread, it is in the private section. Just post about 8 more times and you should be able to access.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/52532-i-cheated-my-husband-left.html


thanks you


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> QUOTE=imjustwatching;9556337]well i got a friend who cheated on her husband , and trying to save her marriage and win here husband back
> and she's asking me to help her find some story's about this to figure out how to do it and how it end


EI's thread in CWI is a great example.

EI = Empty Inside.[/QUOTE]

what is CWI ?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

imjustwatching said:


> EI's thread in CWI is a great example.
> 
> EI = Empty Inside.


what is CWI ?[/QUOTE]

Sorry. The forum we are in, Coping With Infidelity.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> what is CWI ?


Sorry. The forum we are in, Coping With Infidelity.[/QUOTE]

Ok thank you


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Forest said:


> here is the thread, it is in the private section. Just post about 8 more times and you should be able to access.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/52532-i-cheated-my-husband-left.html


I did post more than 8 times and still cant open it ?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Here's the thing. I cheated on my STBXW. And in Tears' thread (and similar threads) I've said that I would never blame a betrayed spouse for divorcing the cheating spouse and not looking back. That's the risk someone takes when they cheat. That they may very well damage the relationship too badly to repair it. That the BS may not want to go through the long, very painful rebuild that's required. Or they may realize that yes, the relationship was horribly broken before the affair happened, and that was the last straw. 

In any case, do what you can to help. But accept (and prepare your friend for) the fact that rebuilding isn't always going to happen. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

imjustwatching said:


> I did post more than 8 times and still cant open it ?


Log out and log back in. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

PBear said:


> Here's the thing. I cheated on my STBXW. And in Tears' thread (and similar threads) I've said that I would never blame a betrayed spouse for divorcing the cheating spouse and not looking back. That's the risk someone takes when they cheat. That they may very well damage the relationship too badly to repair it. That the BS may not want to go through the long, very painful rebuild that's required. Or they may realize that yes, the relationship was horribly broken before the affair happened, and that was the last straw.
> 
> In any case, do what you can to help. But accept (and prepare your friend for) the fact that rebuilding isn't always going to happen.
> 
> ...


Yes very true


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Read these two threads:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/175881-i-just-need-tell-someone.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...elp-i-need-more-than-ever-29.html#post9507449

These two threads are written by a young lady, with small children, still a college student, who has a one night stand with a classmate. She (correctly) confesses to her husband. He has left her at this point, despite her being 100 % remorseful and doing everything right since that fateful night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

The wife can try all she wants. She has no choice in the matter. She destroyed her options when she cheated. It is all up to the husband. She will need to respect her husband's choice, no matter what it is.

She has shamed him in a way not otherwise possible. She destroyed the marriage and all trust.

Just don't understand why people don't know this 5 minutes before and turn and run to their spouse - or even how they put themselves in this situation. If only they could look ahead and see the pain, destruction and scorched earth they create for all around them...


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Any idea how he discovered the truth about his faithless wife?


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

thummper said:


> Any idea how he discovered the truth about his faithless wife?


he found a hotel ticket and confronte her then she confess


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Successful reconciliations generally have the following. Understand some men are simply incapable of getting past the fact another man put a load in his woman. Men are primitive and territorial.
1). Full truth. If he asks," did he cum in your face?" Warn him he can't unhear the answer and if he persists, answer it truthfully. Lying is often fatal. Some men need the details to process, others don't. The detail needers are often imagining porn star sex, midgets and 15 inch c0cks. Their imaginations run wild.
2). Realize it's at least 2 years to an 80 percent trust level and that's about as high as it ever will get.
3). She will live under surveillance for years and must account for all time. He will have her passwords and know all her communications.
4). She needs to realize randomly years later he will remember what she did to him and get angry or withdrawn. The only correct answer for her is to ask if she needs to do something or leave him alone to process as he needs to. She can not resent the fact that it is four years later.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Successful reconciliations generally have the following. Understand some men are simply incapable of getting past the fact another man put a load in his woman. Men are primitive and territorial.
> 1). Full truth. If he asks," did he cum in your face?" Warn him he can't unhear the answer and if he persists, answer it truthfully. Lying is often fatal. Some men need the details to process, others don't. The detail needers are often imagining porn star sex, midgets and 15 inch c0cks. Their imaginations run wild.
> 2). Realize it's at least 2 years to an 80 percent trust level and that's about as high as it ever will get.
> 3). She will live under surveillance for years and must account for all time. He will have her passwords and know all her communications.
> 4). She needs to realize randomly years later he will remember what she did to him and get angry or withdrawn. The only correct answer for her is to ask if she needs to do something or leave him alone to process as he needs to. She can not resent the fact that it is four years later.


Great post! cheaters seldom realize the full extent of the damage they have done - even the remorseful ones.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

What I find interesting is that for those men capable of getting past the betrayal they seem to mostly process it by turning it into statistics.
Sort of like:
1). They fvcked 14 times on 12 hook up dates.
2). Eight times were missionary.
3). Three times were doggy
4). Two were scissors.
5). One was anal. Mental note, she owes me one try at anal.
6). She sent him about 40 nude pics of herself. Mental note wtf was she thinking? I bet they are all over the internet.
7). First date was jan 12 2012
8). Last date was July 14 2012
9). 3 times in her car. Mental note, replace her car.
10. 8 times at his house
11. 3 times at his house. Mental note. Thank goodness recovered text from July 8 2012 has him complaining that she won't do it at our house. No way in hell I could reconcile had she defiled our marital bed.

It becomes this list. Once quantified, they begin the process of rationalizing. It's not overnight, but they work it.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

you can also read Rookie4 thread.

he was a BS that also went hardcore 180 and who didn't want any kind of relationship (no amicable, no civil, nothing), with his XW who cheated, cheating was an abosolute deal breaker for him, after one year of his wife attemps to reconcile he gave R a chance, it the end it didn't work but to make Rookie4 to change his mind about R and give her a chance proves how devoted was his wife in her attemp to reconcile, the things she did and the way she behaved after DD put her in my top 3 of remorseful women I have seen in all my years of reading indifelity cases.

even if R didn't work in the end rookie4 forgave her from the heart and they became friends.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61712-could-you-reconcile.html


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

imjustwatching said:


> Yes very very remorsful but he's doing a hardcore 180 and waiting for divorce


Sooooo... Is he on TAM?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

weightlifter said:


> What I find interesting is that for those men capable of getting past the betrayal they seem to mostly process it by turning it into statistics.
> Sort of like:
> 1). They fvcked 14 times on 12 hook up dates.
> 2). Eight times were missionary.
> ...


Interesting.
I wonder if my old lady thinks the same way.
Once in the face w/open hand
Once in the face closed hand
Once with his foot
Seven times landed on the floor
twelve times landed on the furniture.
he never drew blood

My point is how one rationalizes the bad sh1t that happens to them.
I mean I believe how many times my old lady phucked around, and I guess my old lady knows how many times I hit her.( Idon't)

Sorry for the thread jack ...I'll stop...but turning it into a statistic when crap goes bad helps one rationalize it????IDK

Now you got me thinking

Its messed up how one rationalize the bad crap other do to them.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

manticore said:


> you can also read Rookie4 thread.
> 
> he was a BS that also went hardcore 180 and who didn't want any kind of relationship (no amicable, no civil, nothing), with his XW who cheated, cheating was an abosolute deal breaker for him, after one year of his wife attemps to reconcile he gave R a chance, it the end it didn't work but to make Rookie4 to change his mind about R and give her a chance proves how devoted was his wife in her attemp to reconcile, the things she did and the way she behaved after DD put her in my top 3 of remorseful women I have seen in all my years of reading indifelity cases.
> 
> ...


Rookie4's ex wife also remained faithful while he was out dating. How many cheating spouses would do that? Not many. His story was a great read but he was also VERY decisive and took serious action. HE made the choices - he didn't wait for her to decide anything. I respect the way he handled the whole thing. However even under these circumstances with a truly remorseful wife the R still didn't work. Rookie4 seems like a real cool guy.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Rookie4's ex wife also remained faithful while he was out dating. How many cheating spouses would do that? Not many. His story was a great read but he was also VERY decisive and took serious action. HE made the choices - he didn't wait for her to decide anything. I respect the way he handled the whole thing. However even under these circumstances with a truly remorseful wife the R still didn't work. Rookie4 seems like a real cool guy.


those are just words , how he gonna know for sure that she didn't see anyone else ?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

imjustwatching said:


> those are just words , how he gonna know for sure that she didn't see anyone else ?


I don't recall their whole story b ut he was pretty certain, in addition her family kept an eye on her I believe.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I don't know what to say for advice on a successful R, I can tell you though what NOT to do. I started a thread last year asking people to share their experiences:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/70821-things-wayward-spouses-do-wrong.html


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Here's a minimum to start an offer of reconciliation for male or female:

1. An apology that sounds as serious as hell.

2. A hall pass/ get out of jail free card that can used by the BS for the next five years.

3. No more girl/boys night out, separate vacations, unaccompanied visits to friends relatives, etc .

4. Surrender of any cell phones. 

(asking for relief of any of the above will be considered a willful attempt to renege on the agreement)


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's a minimum to start an offer of reconciliation for male or female:
> 
> 1. An apology that sounds as serious as hell.
> 
> ...


By #2 do you mean the BS can end the R at any time over a 5 year span, or that the BS gets to disrespect proper marital boundaries without facing consequences? If its the latter, I totally disagree. 

Number 4 is odd as well, because 100% transparency is required from both spouses for a successful marriage. What do phones have to do with anything?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Paladin said:


> By #2 do you mean the BS can end the R at any time over a 5 year span, or that the BS gets to disrespect proper marital boundaries without facing consequences? If its the latter, I totally disagree.
> 
> Number 4 is odd as well, because 100% transparency is required from both spouses for a successful marriage. What do phones have to do with anything?


First, I mean the BS gets to disrespect proper marital boundaries without facing consequences. It happen to them, by agreeing to reconcile, they a giving the WS a suspended sentence so the WS should be willing to give them a pass in return. It would show true remorse by show they are will to take what they dished out. However, if the BS is true to their word, they will never use it.
Second, Since a cell phone appears to be the primary source of communication in an affair, it goes to being penalized for its abuse, and protect the BS from the stress of wondering if the WS is still in contact via a cell phone. Think of it like a car and a drunk driver. The courts will take away driving privileges both as punishment and to protect the public.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> *First, I mean the BS gets to disrespect proper marital boundaries without facing consequences. It happen to them, by agreeing to reconcile, they a giving the WS a suspended sentence so the WS should be willing to give them a pass in return. It would show true remorse by show they are will to take what they dished out. *However, if the BS is true to their word, they will never use it.
> Second, Since a cell phone appears to be the primary source of communication in an affair, it goes to being penalized for its abuse, and protect the BS from the stress of wondering if the WS is still in contact via a cell phone. Think of it like a car and a drunk driver. The courts will take away driving privileges both as punishment and to protect the public.


What if the BS did use it? How many WS would forgive their BS cheating? That is a question that really interests me. How many WS would actually give their BS the same forgiveness for an affair that they want from their BS?


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> First, I mean the BS gets to disrespect proper marital boundaries without facing consequences. It happen to them, by agreeing to reconcile, they a giving the WS a suspended sentence so the WS should be willing to give them a pass in return.


This fails all kinds of logic tests. So in order to demonstrate that the fWS understands that proper marital boundaries must be respected in order to have a successful marriage, they must accept without question when the fBS decides to disrespect the boundaries that they were so devastated over being broken in the first place? How on earth does this work? If I thought for a minute that my spouse would be fine with me disrespecting our marriage, I would no longer be married to her, as it would signal that she herself did not value or respect our marriage. When was the last time two wrongs made a right? 



ThePheonix said:


> Second, Since a cell phone appears to be the primary source of communication in an affair, it goes to being penalized for its abuse, and protect the BS from the stress of wondering if the WS is still in contact via a cell phone. Think of it like a car and a drunk driver. The courts will take away driving privileges both as punishment and to protect the public.


Knowing a spouse is truly remorseful, and having 100% transparency in both directions, is what keeps a fBS from wondering if there is still contact. Unless your idea of marriage includes chaining the fWS to a radiator for the remainder of your days, I dont see the point in taking a phone. It is up to the fWS to demonstrate that they are being faithful, it is not the job of the fBS to police them.




Truthseeker1 said:


> What if the BS did use it? How many WS would forgive their BS cheating? That is a question that really interests me. How many WS would actually give their BS the same forgiveness for an affair that they want from their BS?


How many fBS would actually be truly remorseful in this scenario? How many would simply cite some nonsense about a get out of jail card to justify an affair? No remorse, no R, pretty simple, no?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Paladin said:


> This fails all kinds of logic tests. So in order to demonstrate that the fWS understands that proper marital boundaries must be respected in order to have a successful marriage, they must accept without question when the fBS decides to disrespect the boundaries that they were so devastated over being broken in the first place? How on earth does this work? If I thought for a minute that my spouse would be fine with me disrespecting our marriage, I would no longer be married to her, as it would signal that she herself did not value or respect our marriage. When was the last time two wrongs made a right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Paladin your tone makes it very difficult to have a discussion with you. So I'm no longer going to respond.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

It was a simple question, not sure how you could infer my tone from text, for what its worth, I was attempting to have an actual discussion with other adults about a serious topic, I wouldnt waste time picking on someone for the **** of it.

I get frustrated when people try to cake eat and have double standards about affairs. Affairs are destructive, toxic, and terrible. People who are truly remorseful understand what kind of pain the choice to cheat caused, they often struggle with the guilt of doing such a terrible thing and usually would do anything and everything to undo it. 

When statements like "a BS has a get out of jail card and can do whatever they want" are made, they miss the point entirely. Not only would a RA infinitely complicate attempts to R, it would also make a fBS a cheater, adding untold amounts of crap to the list of things they have to resolve.

While I certainly understand the intent behind trying to rationalize acting in a toxic and dysfunctional way because of an A, at the end of the day, it is still acting in a toxic and dysfunctional way. I genuinely believe that if a fBS did choose the get out of jail card point of view, they would be incapable of remorse, and would always blame shift their decision to have an affair on the fWS.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Paladin said:


> This fails all kinds of logic tests.
> 
> How many fBS would actually be truly remorseful in this scenario? How many would simply cite some nonsense about a get out of jail card to justify an affair? No remorse, no R, pretty simple, no?


Damn, I read my post that started this discussion. My proof reading skills suck. At any rate, I don't think it fails any logic test. A WS can easily pretend to be remorseful. If they got by cheating very long without getting caught, they are good at deception. Why not employ the same talent to convince the spouse they're remorseful. My four step program would force them to show they are willing sacrifice something to "own up" for what they did. In other words, it would force the WS would have skin in the game. Wouldn't you agree its a better way to demonstrate remorse than merely saying you're remorseful. I mean how can you believe that crap.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I can see being truly remorseful after a ONS or some heading down a slippery slope of an emotional attachment but these hot and heavy affairs or LTA's need much much work to convince the BS the remorse is real.

I don't understand how you could have a LTA and sell immediate true remorse. Remorse of getting caught is all I ever see personally. 

Grown ups know exactly what they are doing.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

honestly op you could get all the advice in the world from here and it might prove futile everyone handles infidelity differently and your friends husband my may not be able to get over the betrayal the best she should do is work on herself and find out what went wrong with her reasoning...


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Re: cheating remorsful wife ?*



ThePheonix said:


> Damn, I read my post that started this discussion. My proof reading skills suck. At any rate, I don't think it fails any logic test. A WS can easily pretend to be remorseful. If they got by cheating very long without getting caught, they are good at deception. Why not employ the same talent to convince the spouse they're remorseful. My four step program would force them to show they are willing sacrifice something to "own up" for what they did. In other words, it would force the WS would have skin in the game. Wouldn't you agree its a better way to demonstrate remorse than merely saying you're remorseful. I mean how can you believe that crap.


Maybe if I rephrase my point it would be easier to understand. I asked earlier and you elaborated, but I will ask you again to correct me if I am missing the idea behind what you said.

You: "As a way to fix the damage choosing to have an affair caused, the person who had the affair should for a minimum of 5 years after the start of reconciliation be totally ok with their spouse having a revenge affair. I call this the get out of jail free card."

Me: "This point of view is hard to understand and makes no sense to me because a proper and healthy marriage requires strong boundaries and an expectation by both spouses that those boundaries will be protected. If at any point in time, either spouse, especially a former wayward/disloyal spouse, knowingly allows those boundaries to be broken without protest or consequence, they clearly signal that they either do not understand what boundaries are and why they are important, or simply dont care about having a healthy, functional relationship. Either way, that would be very problematic for most people in a relationship, and especially bad for those in reconciliation."

You: "but they are good at lying, how can you believe them when they say they are remorseful?"

Me: "Early in the process their actions are far more important than their words. If they are truly remorseful, they understand that they have to help with healing and restoring trust. For me, it was very important to know that my spouse understood what was required to have a healthy marriage, not just what was required to have a successful reconciliation. Her work to understand, define, and defend proper boundaries, as well as her work toward building trust between us, did more to help me heal than any remorseful words from her ever did."

You: "They did something wrong, they should be penalized and a good way to do that is to take away their cell phone. That also helps a BS not worry about continued contact between the WS and the AP."

Me: "When they fully understand the damage and pain they caused to a person they care about, and in my opinion, true remorse without that understanding is almost impossible, they will be harder on themselves than you could ever be on them. They will feel the need to be punished, and in a lot of cases, attempt to punish themselves. Reconciliation, and healthy marriages, require 100% transparency. After we started R, my spouse would constantly ask me if I wanted to see her cell, email, social media, and everything else, we obviously had each others passwords to everything, and she would be ok if I looked without her knowledge, but she wanted to constantly show me that I had nothing to worry about. She understood that it was up to her to demonstrate that she really cared about me and the marriage, and did not want to burden me with the added task of policing her, or treating her like a grounded teenager."

You: "Giving something up shows they have skin in the game, in other words, sacrifice proves they are invested in the relationship."

Me: "I prefer to approach the matter from the abundance point of view(gaining something), and not from the scarcity point of view(losing/sacrificing something) I think it is far easier for both spouses to be invested in the relationship if they both feel there will be positive gain in the future, not loss. There is already so much loss to deal with, like mourning the old and dead relationship, I would not feel any better if my spouse had to lose something to show she was invested in us."

Is that a bit more clear? Did I properly understand and rephrase your point of view on this?

I also wanted to quickly revisit the question raised by one or two people in this thread about the ability of the fWS to employ the same kind of empathy, forgiveness, compassion and understanding they got from their fBS during the R if they found themselves on the receiving end of an affair.

If their spouse is remorseful, as they themselves were when working on R, then the chances of them extending the same kind of grace in return are very high. However, and this was my main gripe with the whole "get out of jail free card" or "entitlement/justification for an affair" point of view, I think it would be impossible to be truly remorseful if one felt entitled to do what they did and used being previously wronged as a justification for their actions. I can't see how it could be viewed as anything but blame shifting, and the consensus seems to say that blame shifting is wrong.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Paladin said:


> Maybe if I rephrase my point it would be easier to understand. I asked earlier and you elaborated, but I will ask you again to correct me if I am missing the idea behind what you said.


Your method seems to be like some entities tend to do an executive who badly screwed up on the job. They simply reinstate them to the same position and trust they will behave themselves in the future. Moreover, you seem to be asking no more of the WS than they should have provided to begin with.

Mine is more along the lines of our justice system. They did the deed and to redeem themselves, they have to pay a penalty and make restitution. The get out of jail free card is the WS saying, "hey, I was willing to cash in part of the marriage for the fun and excitement of an affair. I'm willing to offer you the same opportunity." 

For some reason in this society, I knew relieving them of their cell phone would be a biggie. They'd be willing to give up a roof over their head first. Anyway suppose you have a 22 year old kid on your phones "family" plan who uses the phone to buy and sell drugs. Are you going to cancel his ticket with the phone or just trust him not to do it anymore when he says he'll quit.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I worry that threads like this are telling petiole how to fake their way into R.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

imjustwatching said:


> those are just words , how he gonna know for sure that she didn't see anyone else ?


that is why you have to read the thread.

she moved in with a lady from their church, close to all the community and the family.

the EX, constantly tried to inform rocky that she just went from work to the appartement, but rookie at the time didn't care about what she was doing, so instead she began to constantly report everything to her mother and sisters, when she was out she notfied them where she was unless she was with family, all that time there was no going out at night or or social meetings.

Too much self restriction? yes but she did it all by her own volition, even if rookie didn't have contact directly with her, her mother, his mother, their kids would inform him about what she was doing.

she also requested to her new roomie (church lady) to inform her family of any activity from her side. To many people that would sound like living in jail constantly monitored, but all was in her terms and by her willing to prove that even if rookie was not watching her she would remain single and serious about waiting for him to give her a chance.

(she didn't reach my top 3 of remorseful WW just by chance)


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Re: cheating remorsful wife ?*



ThePheonix said:


> Your method seems to be like some entities tend to do an executive who badly screwed up on the job. They simply reinstate them to the same position and trust they will behave themselves in the future. Moreover, you seem to be asking no more of the WS than they should have provided to begin with.


The trust that they will behave in accordance with proper marital boundaries comes from the process of reconciliation. That process includes examining the pathology of the initial breakdown of the marriage. That type of examination is vital to identify the parts of the relationship that were dysfunctional and need to be discarded, the parts that are semi-functional and need to be fixed, and the parts that were functional and need to be strengthened.

You are not reinstating anyone to anything, you are simply giving a person the opportunity to show you that they have the desire and are capable of having a functional, healthy, and happy relationship with you. 

For me, that would be an impossible task if it included the understanding that my spouse would be fine with letting me inflict massive damage to her, and by extension to myself. If my spouse was perfectly content to let me descend into the toxicity of infidelity, with the full knowledge of how much guilt, shame, regret, self loathing, and pain I could potentially feel after the fact, I would not be able to convince myself that she cared about me at all, and was simply interested in having a level playing field to sling mud on. This is very basic, and I am not sure I can simplify it any further. Two wrongs never make a right. 



> Mine is more along the lines of our justice system. They did the deed and to redeem themselves, they have to pay a penalty and make restitution.


I always thought the point of our justice system was reform by way of understanding what the perpetrator did wrong, why it was wrong, and why they would not do it again. A good example of how simply making someone pay a penalty to make restitution fails can be seen in the corporate world, fines become part of normal operating expenses, so instead of preventing a corp from polluting or whatever else, the fines are used to offset income tax. 



> Anyway suppose you have a 22 year old kid on your phones "family" plan who uses the phone to buy and sell drugs. Are you going to cancel his ticket with the phone or just trust him not to do it anymore when he says he'll quit.


What prevents him from buying a burner phone with the profits from his drug trade? What does he learn when you take the phone away? Does he understand why it was wrong, or simply that when he gets caught he loses his phone?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Paladin said:


> I always thought the point of our justice system was reform


From were I was always sitting it seemed the system was to punish!

But what the hell I'm reformed..not by some justice that was given to the victim but rather my own self worth.

I'm guessing a lot of corp. don't have the self worth that I have?

Now what will reform me from threadjacking?....a ban?

Back to point.....cheater are remorsful or they are not.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Re: cheating remorsful wife ?*



manticore said:


> Too much self restriction? yes but she did it all by her own volition


Perfectly stated, and relates very well to the point of why policing the WS/fWS should not be the responsibility of the BS/fBS. Thank you, I wish I could give your post more than 1 like.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Re: cheating remorsful wife ?*



the guy said:


> From were I was always sitting it seemed the system was to punish!
> 
> But what the hell I'm reformed..not by some justice that was given to the victim but rather my own self worth.


Also an excellent point about self worth, and reform. Its not the fear of punishment that makes you behave the way you do, but the desire to be a better person for yourself and those around you. I thought your post was on topic as it adds to the discussion.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Paladin said:


> Also an excellent point about self worth, and reform. Its not the fear of punishment that makes you behave the way you do, but the desire to be a better person for yourself and those around you. I thought your post was on topic as it adds to the discussion.


For once!:rofl::lol:


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

*Sv: Re: cheating remorsful wife ?*



Paladin said:


> For me, that would be an impossible task if it included the understanding that my spouse would be fine with letting me inflict massive damage to her, and by extension to myself. If my spouse was perfectly content to let me descend into the toxicity of infidelity, with the full knowledge of how much guilt, shame, regret, self loathing, and pain I could potentially feel after the fact, I would not be able to convince myself that she cared about me at all, and was simply interested in having a level playing field to sling mud on. This is very basic, and I am not sure I can simplify it any further. Two wrongs never make a right.


It's the cheating more than the hallpass that tells me she doesn't care about her husband. .


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

*Re: Sv: Re: cheating remorsful wife ?*



cpacan said:


> It's the cheating more than the hallpass that tells me she doesn't care about her husband. .


*Exactly* the act itself is indicative of someone who doesn't see you as a priority emotionally or physically


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Sv: Re: cheating remorsful wife ?*



xakulax said:


> *Exactly* the act itself is indicative of someone who doesn't see you as a priority emotionally or physically


No argument from me, but we are discussing R, and the expectation that the fWS should be ok with the fBS having an affair. Somehow I cant wrap my mind around this concept.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Paladin said:


> I always thought the point of our justice system was reform by way of understanding what the perpetrator did wrong, why it was wrong, and why they would not do it again.


Yet at the same time, the advise is usually to take a hard line and punish the OP. On "the fWS should be ok with the fBS having an affair" think of it like this. Suppose the WS, while just ending 1 year affair and return as the "good spouse" to their marriage, discovers the BS grew tired of the shabby treatment at home and nailed a co-worker a week earlier. Should the WS complain?

On the cell phone, at least with a burner phone the little sh-t would have to foot the bill for it.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> Suppose the WS, while just ending 1 year affair and return as the "good spouse" to their marriage, discovers the BS grew tired of the shabby treatment at home and nailed a co-worker a week earlier. Should the WS complain?


If they are not divorced, and R is the stated goal, the fWS should not only "complain," but should also follow the general advice given here about how to deal with an affair. If in your scenario the fBS felt entitled to have the revenge affair, and is unwilling to own it, the fBS will be incapable of remorse, making R impossible.

What is the difference between saying "I had an affair because my spouse wasnt taking care of my needs" or whatever reason the WS uses to compartmentalize the choice to cheat, and saying "I had an affair because my spouse cheated?" Both would be "justifying" and affair, and thats why I cant understand this point of view.



ThePheonix said:


> ...at the same time, the advise is usually to take a hard line and punish...


I can understand this interpretation of the advice, but I think a slightly different point of view would serve people better. The only person who you can control is yourself, what tangible personal benefit do you get from punishing someone else? Maybe it makes you feel good for a bit, but what is gained at the end of the day? The person on the receiving end of the punishment will shift their focus to avoiding further punishment, not seeking a better life with their spouse. If the focus is not about punishment, but instead about defining, and maintaining solid healthy boundaries, healing and moving forward, the focus shifts away from avoiding punishment, and toward reaching those goals.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Paladin said:


> If the focus is not about punishment, but instead about defining, and maintaining solid healthy boundaries, healing and moving forward, the focus shifts away from avoiding punishment, and toward reaching those goals.


Bear in mind I'm talking about the accepted principle here of seeking out and punishing the affair partner. Does the above "non-punishment" approach apply to the affair partner as well as the WS?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Do they have children?

How long were they married?

Does she have toxic friends?

She should tell all about times dates, lies. Details about sex may not help reconciliation.

She should apologize regularly. Touch him with affection. Difficult if they don't meet.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Re: cheating remorsful wife ?*



ThePheonix said:


> Bear in mind I'm talking about the accepted principle here of seeking out and punishing the affair partner. Does the above "non-punishment" approach apply to the affair partner as well as the WS?


I am not sure who here advocates seeking out and punishing the AP. I see lots of advice about exposing to the APs spouse, if one exists, but the goal is not to punish the AP, but to bring the A into the light of day, and inform another person potentially being betrayed. Doing so often has the added benefit of ending the affair, because the AP now has to face the person they betrayed and often abandon the affair because it is no longer easy, and clandestine. 

If anything, I see lots of advice advocating the complete opposite, citing that seeking conflict with the AP can have very negative consequences, such as injury, potential legal issues, and at worse, death from some trigger happy moron with poor coping skills who happens to be packing when you come to "punish" them.

You can't control the AP any more than you can control the WS, you only have agency of choice about your own actions.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Paladin said:


> I am not sure who here advocates seeking out and punishing the AP. I see lots of advice about exposing to the APs spouse, if one exists, but the goal is not to punish the AP, but to bring the A into the light of day, and inform another person potentially being betrayed.


What would you call publishing the affair partner on Cheatersville for the purpose of, as so often said, "ruin his life"? You know that's commonly posted and goes well beyond exposing the affair. _( I wonder if we're unintentionally highjacking this thread. Easy to do. Whatju think?) _


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> What would you call publishing the affair partner on Cheatersville for the purpose of, as so often said, "ruin his life"? You know that's commonly posted and goes well beyond exposing the affair. _( I wonder if we're unintentionally highjacking this thread. Easy to do. Whatju think?) _


Why not call it what it is? Consequences.

If it ruins his/her 'life' and reputation, then, oh well. This should've been thought of before they engaged in activity that ruined another person's marriage and family.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

imjustwatching said:


> hello guys i hope someone could help me by giving me
> -threats or profils of a wife who cheated and remorsful and trying to win her husband back
> -many thanks in advance



Hello imjustwatching - 

Working through these issues is complicated and unique to each relationship. Sometimes the work is compromised by cultural differences between the couple involved and maybe even more importantly between the couple needing help and those you seek advice from here or elsewhere. 

Does your friend and her spouse share the same base language and cultural background?

I recommend you might consider assisting by finding them professional help with a therapist who speaks their mother tongue and is knowledgeable with their cultural background...or at least has some cultural background knowledge.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

3putt said:


> Why not call it what it is? Consequences.
> 
> If it ruins his/her 'life' and reputation, then, oh well. This should've been thought of before they engaged in activity that ruined another person's marriage and family.


I really understand where you're coming from. If my wife hooked up with a neighbor's wife for the purpose of dealing prescription drugs to their friends, and got caught, I would likely want to see the neighbors wife go down the toilet for dragging my wife in to it and costing me for the defense.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I really understand where you're coming from. If my wife hooked up with a neighbor's wife for the purpose of dealing prescription drugs to their friends, and got caught, I would likely want to see the neighbors wife go down the toilet for dragging my wife in to it and costing me for the defense.


LOL....that's so apple and orange (and irrelevant) it's barely worth responding to, so I won't. I've been through this silly argument before and it's an endless circle.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Remorse over the affair and consequences have little to do with one another.

The WS can have remorse over the affair, even if there are few consequences, provided that they actually give a $hit about their BS and integrity. However, the affair probably wouldn't have happened if those things are true. 

So that brings us to consequences, these can be natural (like AP spouse coming to beat up the WS), imposed by the BS (submit to cheaterville, exposer and forced to quit jobs or social organizations where they met AP) or self imposed (similar to those imposed by BS, but done without the BS asking).


Even the most narcissistic WS will feel remorse (or pain at least) over the consequences. I personally feel it's only the self imposed ones that demonstrate any compassion for the BS. Compliance with the others is either unavoidable or self preservation. 

Remorse over the affair is rare, remorse over getting caught and the consequences is common. It can be hard to tell the two apart.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Remorse over the affair and consequences have little to do with one another.
> 
> The WS can have remorse over the affair, even if there are few consequences, provided that they actually give a $hit about their BS and integrity. However, the affair probably wouldn't have happened if those things are true.
> 
> ...




:iagree:


I wouldn't be surprised how many cases of "remorse" where merely self preservation and going through the motions of being caught


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

There is a fundamental flaw here with this thread that needs to be addressed remorse like beauty is in the eye of the beholder or in this case the betrayed spouse assuming she is doing the natural motions of remorse post affair apologizing profusely and vowing never to do it again aren't enough to sway him at this point then maybe we should consider in this case the BS may know more about his wife's character then what we are being told there are pieces to the story were not hearing....


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Acoa said:


> Remorse over the affair is rare, remorse over getting caught and the consequences is common. It can be hard to tell the two apart.


:iagree:

What I will never understand is how the WS can instantly figure out how much they love their spouse after getting caught. 

R is a great deal of work for both parties. The WS feels guilty as they look at their BS every day and take the deserved verbal abuse when their BS triggers. They have to be on their best behavior and put up with being checked up on.

Why did the WS have an affair if they loved their BS so much as to be willing to do the heavy lifting? 

I never cheated and I love my wife but not enough to do all that a WS has to do to stay with her. 

The sudden shift in attitude after getting caught is better explained by fear of losing their reputation and/or lifestyle. 

The affair was free so it was certainly worth it until they were caught. The drastic change in attitude is more likely due to avoiding the consequences than the sudden realization that they loved their spouse after all.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Exactly greywolf sudden rediscovery of their love for their bs is nothing more than realization of what they stand to lose financially and socially here's a question to think about how many wayward spouses do you think would stay in their affair if they knew they couldn't get caught I'm welling to assume a high number


But once the affair been discovered they all the sudden have a revelation about how much they love their betray spouse and how much they can't live without them lol cheaters live in their own world and expect you to live in it with them


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

xakulax said:


> Exactly greywolf sudden rediscovery of their love for their bs is nothing more than realization of what they stand to lose financially and socially here's a question to think about how many wayward spouses do you think would stay in their affair if they knew they couldn't get caught I'm welling to assume a high number
> 
> 
> But once the affair been discovered they all the sudden have a revelation about how much they love their betray spouse and how much they can't live without them lol cheaters live in their own world and expect you to live in it with them


To quote my STBXW, "I thought I could stop and pretend it never happened." 

About sums it up. The affair is great. The thrill, the excitement of doing something taboo. But the hope was to never get caught. Because you know, if you don't get caught, no crime was ever committed. :scratchhead:


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Acoa makes some excellent points that relate very well to the discussion about the difference between doing something to avoid punishment, and doing something to improve a situation. When a fWS "gets it" or finally reaches a point where they understand that their actions were completely wrong and hurt a person they care about badly, they have a deep desire to do anything and everything possible to not only repair the damage, but also to ensure that the rest of their relationship with their spouse is as good as they can possibly make it. 

The fWS become self motivated, and once they get a general idea about what the fBS needs to heal and move forward, they begin doing those things unprompted and mostly for the benefit of the fBS. I say mostly because the things that help the fBS heal tend to help strengthen the relationship by extension.

Also, the idea that if a fWS is truly remorseful and willing to do the hard work of R because of love for their spouse they wouldn't have cheated in the first place, is a bit flawed. Humans are fallible, we can screw up royally at any given point in time. Its rare for someone to hand you a manual called "how to properly be married and have a good relationship with your spouse" before you actually get married, so most of the time it is trial by fire. I was clueless about how to establish and maintain proper marital boundaries, and so was my spouse, until it became critical for both of us to learn that vital skill, unfortunately it was after the sht hit the fan and not before.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Graywolf2 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> The sudden shift in attitude after getting caught is better explained by fear of losing their reputation and/or lifestyle.


Absolutely. Here the thing about remorse. If they hadn't got caught yesterday, you wouldn't be hearing how remorseful they are today. Think about it.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Paladin said:


> Also, the idea that if a fWS is truly remorseful and willing to do the hard work of R because of love for their spouse they wouldn't have cheated in the first place, is a bit flawed. Humans are fallible, we can screw up royally at any given point in time.



Maybe for a ONS or relationship that crosses from normal to an EA. But if a WS is serial cheating with multiple partners or carrying on a long term PA, I don't buy the broken bit. What, so broken and empty They had to fill up on someone else's sex organs? But better hide it from the spouse, because they can't help. My STBX is trying to use that excuse, but I'm not buying what she is selling. I know of 4 guys in 4 years, 2 definite PA, the other 2 cybersex, maybe PA. The flirting started 8 years ago. That is more than an oops.

I'm sure it's possible in other situations you are correct, bit not in as many that will claim it to be so.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Absolutely. Here the thing about remorse. If they hadn't got caught yesterday, you wouldn't be hearing how remorseful they are today. Think about it.


I think that for some WS they see their world coming to an end on D day. 

In that moment of sheer terror there is no way the affair was worth it no matter how much fun they were having. 

Robbing banks was fun and the money was good until you find out that you will be spending the next 20 years in jail. Then the cars and jewelry were not worth it.

At that point they are being sincere when they say that it was a terrible mistake and feel guilty (maybe for the first time) when they see their spouse transform into a BS before their eyes.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

I agree with you, this does not apply to serial cheaters, or people who have particular kinds of personality disorders. Those kind of people may not actually posses the capability to feel empathy, much like sociopaths do not feel guilt, they tend to see people as objects and manipulate those objects to suit their own agendas. I am an optimist at heart and hope that those kind of people are the rare minority, not the norm.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

The more people that put up with cheaters the more the cheating will happen. Its really a clear signal someone sends when the only consequence to cheating is a talk. I personally thought I could possibly be the only person that allowed myself to be abused so badly. Coming to this site was a real eye opener for me. I have been cheated on by multiple women. The one sure thing I have learned is I am better than that. I deserve better. Sure its my fault for picking the lousy partner but Its not my fault they cheated. People that choose to stay with cheaters should keep one thing in mind. If there spouse cheats again its on them not the cheating spouse. If someone does not put in good consequences for the cheating and does not do the right things to prepare themselves then that's there fault. I am in no way blaming the BS for the spouses cheating. I am blaming the BS for staying with a cheater. 

I was this person. I put up with it with my xW alone for ten years. My advice to anyone if your spouse cheats and does not come clean on there own they are not worth the time of day. If you have children with them teach them the best lesson of all. Show them they should never put up with abuse. My mother found out my father had cheated on her and left him when I was a baby. I never learned about that until after being cheated on from my xW. I wished my mother would have shared that information with me. It might have helped me sooner. 

Clay


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Graywolf2 said:


> ]What I will never understand is how the WS can instantly figure out how much they love their spouse after getting caught.


Because affairs often aren't thought of as "real" until they impact your real-life support system.

When you get caught, it goes from being a fantasy to reality. Until that point, the wayward spouse can always think things like "it's just something I need to get out of my system," "it's just a one time thing," "it doesn't mean anything," and "It's not my fault."



> The sudden shift in attitude after getting caught is better explained by fear of losing their reputation and/or lifestyle.
> 
> The affair was free so it was certainly worth it until they were caught. The drastic change in attitude is more likely due to avoiding the consequences than the sudden realization that they loved their spouse after all.


Sure, that's part of it. But not all of it.

Sometimes your body agenda seeks to get you to have sex with other people. We're primates, after all.

So it keeps pinging at your subconscious to come up with a justification to cheat, or come up with a way to delude yourself into thinking it isn't real.

So people do, sometimes. Their brain and body become flooded with hormones that fog the rational part of your mind, you want sex with the affair partner all the time, etc. It becomes a fantasy, and reality just can't compete.

People are good at compartmentalization. They can become an entirely different person when cheating. Then they go into cognitive dissonance where their affair personality and life doesn't align with their married personality and life.

So they have two different lives. This is how a wife that claims not to like sex becomes a kinky sex maniac with the other man. This is how a non-romantic husband showers the other woman with romantic gestures.

Then the worlds collide and a big life changing "WTF have I been doing" moment can happen. And I truly believe the cheating spouse can realize that they loved their spouse after all, and they are horrified at what they have done.

I've seen it happen.

However, more often, I've seen it go down the rationalization path.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

marduk said:


> So they have two different lives..



You know how psychologists refer to having "two different lives"?

Poor ego integrity.


It's a maladaptive character flaw. That's all you need to know.

I don't care if it's a 300 lb couch potato who is constantly reliving his high-school football glory days and imagining he might still make the pros and who likes to think of his crappy job he's had for the last 10 years as "temporary" or if it's cheating, that crap catches up with you.

Poor integrity is a giant red flag in my book.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Acoa said:


> Maybe for a ONS or relationship that crosses from normal to an EA. *But if a WS is serial cheating with multiple partners or carrying on a long term PA, I don't buy the broken bit. * What, so broken and empty They had to fill up on someone else's sex organs? But better hide it from the spouse, because they can't help. My STBX is trying to use that excuse, but I'm not buying what she is selling. I know of 4 guys in 4 years, 2 definite PA, the other 2 cybersex, maybe PA. The flirting started 8 years ago. That is more than an oops.
> 
> I'm sure it's possible in other situations you are correct, bit not in as many that will claim it to be so.


Serial cheating or a spouse who cheats for a couple of years or more is in a whole different category of cheating. Lies and deception piled on lies and deception. Sometimes we discuss affairs on TAM as if an EA to a LTA are all the same thing - they are not. It takes a "special person" to cheat on their spouse for an extended period of time or with multiple partners.


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