# Is Adultery a Red Line for You?



## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back? 

Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Not only won't I take her back, she'd be dead to me as sure as if shot herself the moment she let the other man inside. It's happened to me so I know how I react and how I feel.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

simply put

it is a dead deal for women and men that have an ounce of self-respect, dignity, and self confidence 

doesn't matter if that person had a one nightstand and blame the drinks or an ongoing affair.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

I guess I’m suprised to see this, I thought it would be a trick question or something.

No one truly knows how they will react until it happens.

Of course, almost everyone on TAM can still answer the question honestly. And for those who it hasn’t happened, they will say “Yes” but maybe they turn into hoovers when the day comes.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

People say but they don’t act ….


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I guess I’m suprised to see this, I thought it would be a trick question or something.
> 
> No one truly knows how they will react until it happens.
> 
> Of course, almost everyone on TAM can still answer the question honeastly. And for those who it hasn’t happened, they will say “Yes” but maybe they turn into hoovers when the day comes.


I considered taking my ex wife back for a day or so, but I looked in the [proverbial] mirror and into a real life one and knew I couldn't live with myself if I awarded her betrayal with me present in her life.

I've done this and I won't hesitate in future in case of a PA, I know myself.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?
> 
> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


I wanted to try, but realized pretty soon I couldn't when my image of the kind of man he was completely shattered. Honestly, I didn't think he wanted to choose, and there's no way I'd willingly share a partner.

So I divorced and never looked back, we certainly aren't friends. True friends don't lie to your face and stab you in the back. So yes, I know what I will/won't do.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It’s a deal breaker not because I wouldn’t be able to forgive, but because it would change me, and I’d never trust my husband again. I think reconciliation is possible for many people but, it seems like too much stress to me.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

My ex-husband cheated on me with no chance at reconcilation. He chose to leave the marriage for the other woman. 

I would have worked with him had he shown remorse and a genuine desire to stay married. Why? Because I knew what awaited me as a single woman at 45. It's not easy or pretty. I knew the only guarantee was a life alone.

The comedian Joe Devito has an entire comedy routine dedicated to it. One of the best lines is "dating over 40 is trying to find the least damaged thing in the thrift store". He's right. We're all carrying a lifetime of emotional baggage plus the responsibilities, headaches, and trauma acquired as part of the marriage and subsequent dissolution. 

I'll have beat the odds if I ever find my next happily ever after. Happy-For-Now is the goal.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Lila said:


> My ex-husband cheated on me with no chance at reconcilation. He chose to leave the marriage for the other woman.
> 
> I would have worked with him had he shown remorse and a genuine desire to stay married. Why? Because I knew what awaited me as a single woman at 45. It's not easy or pretty. I knew the only guarantee was a life alone.
> 
> ...


I was afraid of that too, but I think I would have died inside if I stayed. It would have compromised every principle I held dear and made me hate myself for accepting what I did not deserve. 

Despite that fear, it made more sense to me to take a chance of men with baggage than to stay with someone repulsive. I haven't regretted that decision yet, even though I'm still not done rebuilding me life.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Yep, he would be gone! And that’s what I did!


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> People say but they don’t act ….


Many have divorced.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?
> 
> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


Once upon a time, I thought it would be a red line from which there could be no return. * I am no longer sure.*

After having survived a sex starved marriage and realized that my wife had absolutely no sexual desire for me and having heard her say that she never wanted to have sex with me again; we were able to reconcile and have sexual relations after help with a great marriage counselor and sex therapist. 

After that experience, I am not sure one can say never about anything.

In fact, I think I would have preferred to take a woman back who had a sex drive and had an affair, rather than one who had to rebuild and reconstruct a sex drive from scratch. 

One of the things, that has changed is the level of "trust" and belief in what my wife tells me. I now firmly believe in actions and not words. My trust of my wife is far more limited than before. If she had an affair, it would be even more limited. Everything would depend on her remorse and her commitment to rebuilding the marriage.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Young at Heart said:


> Once upon a time, I thought it would be a red line from which there could be no return. * I am no longer sure.*
> 
> After having survived a sex starved marriage and realized that my wife had absolutely no sexual desire for me and having heard her say that she never wanted to have sex with me again; we were able to reconcile and have sexual relations after help with a great marriage counselor and sex therapist.
> 
> ...


So she gets a free pass as long as her sorry self would be sorry enough?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Kicked her a** to the curb as soon as I found out


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## TheSkyIsBlue (2 mo ago)

My husband committed adultery and I took him back. Prior to this, I always said adultery was my big red boundary line. I'm glad I gave him a second chance. He's a much better person and husband today than he was prior to the cheating. I see him today and look at our relationship and am so thankful that I didn't walk away back then.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

When I started posting on tam I wasn’t concerned about cheating, my problem was different.
I would have said back then that I would never accept cheating and I would be done. However after reading some of the threads I seen how some people who I have the utmost respect for had reconciled with cheating spouses and had rebuilt their marriages and didn’t have any regrets about doing so. However the longer I stayed here and read about people being triggered years after the reconciliation the more I reversed my thinking (again) about what I would do. So now I’m in the immediate divorce if cheating occurs camp.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I'd never say never to anything.
However, if I was being cheated on, she would have at best a <2% chance of winning me back.
First thing that I would do would be file.
Anything that she could do after that to get me to back off would have to be epic.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Numb26 said:


> Kicked her a** to the curb as soon as I found out


Was she surprised that you’d end the marriage so quickly? Many of the stories on here that involve cheating, the wayward spouse is usually shocked when the betrayed spouse says bye, begging for another chance.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Tdbo said:


> I'd never say never to anything.
> However, if I was being cheated on, she would have at best a <2% chance of winning me back.
> First thing that I would do would be file.
> Anything that she could do after that to get me to back off would have to be epic.


I suspect this is closer to reality for me as well. In my mind it is a hard line, but never is a strong word.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

TXTrini said:


> I was afraid of that too, but I think I would have died inside if I stayed. It would have compromised every principle I held dear and made me hate myself for accepting what I did not deserve.
> 
> Despite that fear, it made more sense to me to take a chance of men with baggage than to stay with someone repulsive. I haven't regretted that decision yet, even though I'm still not done rebuilding me life.


But that's why I caveated what I said with "if he'd shown true remorse and a genuine desire to stay in the marriage". 

I don't think I could have stayed if he'd been a philanderer who's every minute away from me was seeking out other women.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?


Apparently, but it should have been a no.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*



Is Adultery a Red Line for You?

Click to expand...

*Duh

Once trust is gone it's just a ticking clock, what's the point.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?
> 
> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


If @Emerging Buddhist were to commit adultery, it would be so wildly out of his character that my first thought would be that there's something medically wrong--like DIRELY wrong--like a stroke or something.

That being said, we are all capable of being fooled, being deceived or being in strong denial, so as often as I've heard people say "Oh s/he's not that type" or "This so isn't like him/her" or "That would never happen to us"...yes, it DOES happen to us!! But being the age we are and knowing what we know, we make an effort in our marriage now, while things are good, to keep them good and stay connected and encourage tough honesty, etc. 

So anyway... first, I'd accept that it happened, and then I'd say he is free to either end it now or lose me. That is my boundary: 100% of affection, loyalty, and companionship leaves 0% for others, and for me, I will only have a life partner who voluntarily offers 100%. 

Now, I'm kind and open-hearted---I'd be willing to work at whatever we need to work at if the choice AND ACTIONS are "end it". I'd have to see what I call "consistency" where WORDS and ACTIONS match, but if I were to see that, I'd be willing and able to work through it and have some compassion.

I would be very sad if the choice was "lose me" but long story short, I'm not doing a "pick me" dance for a partner who doesn't love only me and want to stay with me. If he said to me that he loved someone else, he'd be free to go and I'd close the door and seal it shut and it would not open again.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dictum Veritas said:


> So she gets a free pass as long as her sorry self would be sorry enough?


No. If I decide to try (with no promises) to rebuild the marriage and she commits to working to rebuilding it, then she might be able to. I would not consider that a free pass.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Young at Heart said:


> No. If I decide to try (with no promises) to rebuild the marriage and she commits to working to rebuilding it, then she might be able to. I would not consider that a free pass.


You are far more forgiving than I am. If she could get a time-machine and un-F the guy I'd still kick her to the curb because the other time-line had happened. I really hate the adulterous with a passion on par with murderers because they are murderers of the soul.

Do you know I used to be the guy who had everyone in the room in stitches, laughing? Well, adultery killed that humorous spirit I had. I miss that carefree universally beloved guy, but an adulteress killed him more than 20 years ago and he never came back.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

I think it depends upon the situation. Nothing is as black and white as most want them to be. Go read my story. There again it may not sway anyone in the least and it may make poster in here really dislike me as a member? It makes no difference to me as long as I can help another not make my dumb mistake and maybe pick up some good things for myself in the future along the way.

I don’t believe cheating is ever justified for the record.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

It is an extremely egregious act of abuse. I would never feel safe again. It just takes so much planning, lying, gaslighting that it is hard to imagine a person with a conscience could do it. And, I could not relax and feelmsafe with such a person.
And, I would think one would always question the cheater's motivation for staying. I had no desire to be second choice and have someone stay with me due to wear of consequences, like financial ones or the disapproval of others. Just too much of a hit to one's sense of self worth.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Once trust is shattered what is left?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I said I would divorce if he ever cheated. I didn’t do that the first time because we had a minor child and I felt we could rebuild (so much for doing what I always said I would). But I did do that the second time because I was older and smarter and ready to move on. If I had it to do over I would divorce the first time. Sure, some never cheat again but many do. And you don’t know 100% which one you have.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Openminded said:


> I said I would divorce if he ever cheated. I didn’t do that the first time because we had a minor child and I felt we could rebuild (so much for doing what I always said I would). But I did do that the second time because I was older and smarter and ready to move on. If I had it to do over I would divorce the first time. Sure, some never cheat again but many do. And you don’t know 100% which one you have.


Yes, consideration for the kids really makes it a tough decision. It is so painful. It truly amazes me what cheaters are willing to,put their families through.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Megaforce said:


> Yes, consideration for the kids really makes it a tough decision. It is so painful. It truly amazes me what cheaters are willing to,put their families through.


And they do that without a thought apparently. My exH fought the divorce — it was never his intention to leave. I bought his promises the first time but I had learned my lesson by the second time. And my now-adult child also wishes I had gotten out the first time so trying to put our family back together was a waste of years. I’m the example of what not to do.


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## newsman_ca (Apr 11, 2019)

I find it interesting that the poll indicates a 76% "yes it's over" total, so far...yet reading the threads it's more like 5%


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dictum Veritas said:


> You are far more forgiving than I am. If she could get a time-machine and un-F the guy I'd still kick her to the curb because the other time-line had happened. I really hate the adulterous with a passion on par with murderers because they are murderers of the soul.
> 
> Do you know I used to be the guy who had everyone in the room in stitches, laughing? Well, adultery killed that humorous spirit I had. I miss that carefree universally beloved guy, but an adulteress killed him more than 20 years ago and he never came back.


Thank you for sharing. I can't hit the like button, because I am sad that your spirit was crushed.

All I can share is that I married the woman I loved. Our marriage drifted into a sex starved marriage. I came to the point that I promised myself that I would divorce her if I were not in a loving sexual relationship by a certain age. We both worked hard on saving the marriage. I saw her claw her way back to becoming a sexual being from someone who never wanted to be sexual with anyone in their life again. That took incredible strength and commitment on her part to save our marriage. We both knew that if she had not done that, I would have divorced her.

I have no idea what I would have done if she has had an affair. However, if she had an intact sex drive, it would have been much easier for her rebuild our loving relationship. I am unsure being told "I no longer sexually desire you and never want to have sex with you" is any less emotionally damaging than "I had an affair once in a moment of weakness."

Again, I am not sure what I would do. I do know I was willing to work through the Sex Starved Marriage issues.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Young at Heart said:


> Thank you for sharing. I can't hit the like button, because I am sad that your spirit was crushed.
> 
> All I can share is that I married the woman I loved. Our marriage drifted into a sex starved marriage. I came to the point that I promised myself that I would divorce her if I were not in a loving sexual relationship by a certain age. We both worked hard on saving the marriage. I saw her claw her way back to becoming a sexual being from someone who never wanted to be sexual with anyone in their life again. That took incredible strength and commitment on her part to save our marriage. We both knew that if she had not done that, I would have divorced her.
> 
> ...


I can relate more than you think, my wife has gone into a "hyper-religious" phase right now and sex is off the table. I'm totally sex starved and I'm still figuring out where to go from here. I'm contemplating divorce myself since my wife has been anything but the most supportive person I've known and she had an EA where she chased a guy who luckily didn't bite 3 years ago.

Right now I can only assume she doesn't love me anymore and in some ways I actually would have found it simpler if she crossed my line of a PA and I could have just kicked her out.

I'm giving it until the end of the year and perhaps, most likely, I'd be a single old fart again. Who knows? I'm not looking forward to any of it, but I'm not there for the convenience of someone who sees me as some kind of convenience.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> When I started posting on tam I wasn’t concerned about cheating, my problem was different.
> I would have said back then that I would never accept cheating and I would be done. However after reading some of the threads I seen how some people who I have the utmost respect for had reconciled with cheating spouses and had rebuilt their marriages and didn’t have any regrets about doing so. However the longer I stayed here and read about people being triggered years after the reconciliation the more I reversed my thinking (again) about what I would do. So now I’m in the immediate divorce if cheating occurs camp.


I don't think I could have let it go and forgiven in time, even if he'd have been remorseful. I'm just not that good of a person to completely swallow my pride against someone who wrongs me to that extent. 

I forgave an EA... mostly... but I'd get really angry for a long time after and realized I was happy sometimes when life kicked my ex in his ass. That's no way to feel and stay married to someone, so it was best for us both in the long run to go our separate ways.

I don't know how some people can let their rage go enough to truly forgive enough for reconciliation , ever tell that person you love them again or hear them say it and really mean it. But good for those who can, it takes all sorts.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Dictum Veritas said:


> You are far more forgiving than I am. If she could get a time-machine and un-F the guy I'd still kick her to the curb because the other time-line had happened. I really hate the adulterous with a passion on par with murderers because they are murderers of the soul.
> 
> Do you know I used to be the guy who had everyone in the room in stitches, laughing? Well, adultery killed that humorous spirit I had. I miss that carefree universally beloved guy, but an adulteress killed him more than 20 years ago and he never came back.


You know, I refuse to be completely changed by this experience, no matter how much it hurt. And hurt it did to the core, my ex knew very well it was the worst thing he could do, he knew my history (my father cheated and started another family). 

But why let someone take more from you than they have to? I refuse to waste any more joy. People can only change you if you let them.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> You know, I refuse to be completely changed by this experience, no matter how much it hurt. And hurt it did to the core, my ex knew very well it was the worst thing he could do, he knew my history (my father cheated and started another family).
> 
> But why let someone take more from you than they have to? I refuse to waste any more joy. People can only change you if you let them.


I had no choice, a part of my soul died. It is what it is.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?
> 
> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


It really might depend for this barbarian.

Some weird situation with mitigating factors, an absolutely contrite and immediately confessing wife and no gaslighting or cheater's handbook excuses?

Maybe with a hell of a lot of work and reorganizing of our lives to establish better and healthier boundaries.

Most likely the answer would be immediate termination of our marriage and retribution to anyone I found culpable.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

I went into my marriage telling her it was 100% a red line. So when she crossed it, I slammed the door and didn’t entertain the idea of her returning. Funny thing is, she has resented me ever since for doing that.

Once trust is gone, it’s gone. If I took her back, it would always be in the back of my mind. If she was 30 minutes late coming home, that’s the first thought I would have. So it would be so stressful to me and not a healthy way to live, especially for the person that did no wrong.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Lila said:


> But that's why I caveated what I said with "if he'd shown true remorse and a genuine desire to stay in the marriage".
> 
> I don't think I could have stayed if he'd been a philanderer who's every minute away from me was seeking out other women.


I'm sorry, I don't think I said what I was trying to convey right.

It must have been hard to walk despite your fears, I shared them and it was no joke. I hear how some men talk about 40+ women, it was really scary to take that leap.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

SCDad01 said:


> I went into my marriage telling her it was 100% a red line. So when she crossed it, I slammed the door and didn’t entertain the idea of her returning. Funny thing is, she has resented me ever since for doing that.
> 
> Once trust is gone, it’s gone. If I took her back, it would always be in the back of my mind. If she was 30 minutes late coming home, that’s the first thought I would have. So it would be so stressful to me and not a healthy way to live, especially for the person that did no wrong.


Exactly! I don't want to live that way either, I much rather have peace.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> I'm sorry, I don't think I said what I was trying to convey right.
> 
> It must have been hard to walk despite your fears, I shared them and it was no joke. I hear how some men talk about 40+ women, it was really scary to take that leap.


I think you have to leave with the idea that you may never find someone else. If you do then great but prepare for the other possibility. Lots of people stay because they’re afraid that’s what will happen.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Openminded said:


> I think you have to leave with the idea that you may never find someone else. If you do then great but prepare for the other possibility. Lots of people stay because they’re afraid that‘s what will happen.


You're exactly right. It's not easy, so I get it. I remember being sick with fear, I wasn't physically well at the time, but look at where forgiveness got me. 

The only regret I have is not being ruthless and walking after the EA. Forgiveness after disloyalty seemed only to empower my ex to be bolder and cover his tracks better. 

I think the disloyalty and dishonesty bothered me more than rhe actual sex 🤔. It's not like we had sex, much less good sex for me to be jealous. 

There's one person on this thread that reconciled and was grateful for reconciling. To you, I ask these questions, because I really want to know...

How did you forgive your husband his disloyalty and truly love and trust him again? 
Do you truly never wonder when he's late? 
Has he reformed himself? 
How do you know its not just a matter of time again and feel secure?
How old are you both?


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

It’s weird because a few weeks back my wife said that there is absolutely nothing that would end our marriage not even me cheating. She said that she loves me so much that she would just feel sorry for me and wander what I must have been going through to get to that point. I responded “I don’t believe you would actually respond like that and I’m not going to try it”.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

CallingDrLove said:


> It’s weird because a few weeks back my wife said that there is absolutely nothing that would end our marriage not even me cheating. She said that she loves me so much that she would just feel sorry for me and wander what I must have been going through to get to that point. I responded “I don’t believe you would actually respond like that and I’m not going to try it”.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Openminded said:


> I think you have to leave with the idea that you may never find someone else. If you do then great but prepare for the other possibility. Lots of people stay because they’re afraid that’s what will happen.


Agreed. There is never any guarantee that we will meet another to marry or be in a long-term relationship with, but thats no reason on its own to stay.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Infidelity is my line in the sand. If my wife was ‘intimate’ with another man, there won’t even be a discussion. I’m gone and everyone will know everything.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?


I don’t think all adultery is wrong. Of which, if it was done with my informed consent, I would be okay with it. So for me, it wouldn’t be an issue of taking someone back.



> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


On the other hand, I do have an issue with cheating. So when my ex-wife chose to be adulterous, without my informed consent. I ended our marital relationship, shortly after finding out she cheated on me.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

CallingDrLove said:


> It’s weird because a few weeks back my wife said that there is absolutely nothing that would end our marriage not even me cheating. She said that she loves me so much that she would just feel sorry for me and wander what I must have been going through to get to that point. I responded “I don’t believe you would actually respond like that and I’m not going to try it”.


Right before she maxed out your life insurance. 😉


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Openminded said:


> I think you have to leave with the idea that you may never find someone else. If you do then great but prepare for the other possibility. Lots of people stay because they’re afraid that’s what will happen.


I was lamenting this very idea to my therapist in my last session. I feel like it’s too late for me now and I don’t even want to start dating for years at the least. Where did that leave me???

She said that it is NEVER too late. There are 80 year olds on her couch who still have a robust dating life. I may not be 20, but I’m also not looking to date 20 year old boys… I’m looking for my age group and there are always compatible people if you’re open to it. And she’s right. My 76 year old mother just got a new boyfriend who is adorable. It really is never too late if that’s what someone wishes.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> You're exactly right. It's not easy, so I get it. I remember being sick with fear, I wasn't physically well at the time, but look at where forgiveness got me.
> 
> The only regret I have is not being ruthless and walking after the EA. Forgiveness after disloyalty seemed only to empower my ex to be bolder and cover his tracks better.
> 
> ...


Having both reconciled for many years and then deciding to divorce, I found divorce to definitely be the easier of the two. I never again trusted my husband 100% for the time we remained married after reconciling because I knew what he was capable of. In many ways I spent that time waiting for the other shoe to drop and one day it did. I’ll never know how many times I failed to catch my husband but I do know that two times was one too many. Except in extremely rare circumstances I always recommend divorce over reconciliation because I know what it feels like to have to go through it twice. I felt much more foolish the second time.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I can relate more than you think, my wife has gone into a "hyper-religious" phase right now and sex is off the table. I'm totally sex starved and I'm still figuring out where to go from here. I'm contemplating divorce myself since my wife has been anything but the most supportive person I've known and she had an EA where she chased a guy who luckily didn't bite 3 years ago.
> 
> Right now I can only assume she doesn't love me anymore and in some ways I actually would have found it simpler if she crossed my line of a PA and I could have just kicked her out.
> 
> I'm giving it until the end of the year and perhaps, most likely, I'd be a single old fart again. Who knows? I'm not looking forward to any of it, but I'm not there for the convenience of someone who sees me as some kind of convenience.


Once you establish a deadline for when to get out, it does provide some relief. Just knowing that you do not have to endure this past a certain point is comforting. Imhad a deadline in mind for getting out, too. Fortunately, my wife cheated and this accelerated my getting away from her abuse.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> I was lamenting this very idea to my therapist in my last session. I feel like it’s too late for me now and I don’t even want to start dating for years at the least. Where did that leave me???
> 
> She said that it is NEVER too late. There are 80 year olds on her couch who still have a robust dating life. I may not be 20, but I’m also not looking to date 20 year old boys… I’m looking for my age group and there are always compatible people if you’re open to it. And she’s right. My 76 year old mother just got a new boyfriend who is adorable. It really is never too late if that’s what someone wishes.


It’s sad that people stay in bad relationships because they fear no one else would want them but so many do. Your mother and I are contemporaries. I always date in my age group because those are the people I’ve gone through life with and I still like them.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I had no choice, a part of my soul died. It is what it is.


Right. Some folks think being damaged is volitional. These are, generally, folks that have never been put through it. I have a peaceful, happy life now,but this did change me. Updated a very beautiful, nice woman after my divorce. But, I could never really feel safe and trust. We remain friends, but I bowed out so she could find someone more intact. Just not going to risk it again.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Agreed. There is never any guarantee that we will meet another to marry or be in a long-term relationship with, but thats no reason on its own to stay.


On the bright side, I did read that single guys have more frequent sex than married men. Perhaps it is the same for women.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Megaforce said:


> Right. Some folks think being damaged is volitional. These are, generally, folks that have never been put through it. I have a peaceful, happy life now,but this did change me. Updated a very beautiful, nice woman after my divorce. But, I could never really feel safe and trust. We remain friends, but I bowed out so she could find someone more intact. Just not going to risk it again.


I can’t risk it either. My ability to trust is gone. Now I casually date and I’m upfront that I’m no longer capable of more than that. Infidelity takes a toll. Some do overcome it but I’m not one of them as far as relationships go.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> On the bright side, I did read that single guys have more frequent sex than married men. Perhaps it is the same for women.


Having more now than I did single


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Tough question. we actually had this talk a few weeks ago during a long getaway weekend. Thinking of that song, “I’m only human, born to make mistakes,” and recalling one of my fave Bible stories when Jesus says those without sin can cast the fist stone …

I told her it would be hard but I would forgive her. That said, she’s not sure she could do the same if I strayed. “probably not,” she said. So there ya go.

of course this is all speculation. I’d think a lot would depend on the circumstances, the other person, how often, one time, etc.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Openminded said:


> I can’t risk it either. My ability to trust is gone. Now I casually date and I’m upfront that I’m no longer capable of more than that. Infidelity takes a toll. Some do overcome it but I’m not one of them as far as relationships go.


I thought that, but it simply took time and a trustworthy person. It took more than 2 years though; some people aren't willing to wait around to see that long, but my bf did, and we're very happy now. Neither of us is perfect; we have our issues as a couple, but so far we've been able to talk it out.

The funny thing is, I never felt like I needed to keep tabs on him, which really surprised me, considering we met when betrayal was fresh in my mind. I've thought about it and come to the conclusion that feeling antsy with someone means you're sensing their words and actions don't line up on some level, even if you haven't seen the evidence yet.

That's why I can't in good conscience recommend reconciliation with someone who's proven their word means **** all and obviously lack empathy for those they claim to love. Maybe after a really long time of healing on both ends and true redemption, I could see someone earning back trust, but most cheaters we've seen on here want it all and are even arrogant enough not to be patient with a spouse reeling in pain when some BS attempt reconciliation.

Anyway @SCDad01 I apologize for the threadjack. This is a surprisingly difficult line to navigate for sure, even for hardliners who acted despite their feelings.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Early on my wife was very careful to always be on her best behavior. She rarely went anywhere, and when she did I always knew where she was, if she'd be late, etc. and she made sure I was comfortable. Nowadays, more and more often she goes out without telling me, stays out longer than she "should", out with new people, doesn't text or call, and sometimes I don't have a clue where she is. It doesn't ever make me think she's cheating. The thought honestly doesn't cross my mind (from that). When she's out (or I'm at the office) I don't ever feel the need to check her location or anything like that. I'm about to be gone 50% of the time with work travel and I'm not worried in the slightest about what she's going to be doing. Granted, she always has 3-6 kids home with her and always has at least the tit leech with her when she goes out. Not like kids being around will deter all cheaters though. 

I do think she could go the next 40+ years without cheating again, and I really don't think it would happen again. So it is possible to get to that point.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Early on my wife was very careful to always be on her best behavior. She rarely went anywhere, and when she did I always knew where she was, if she'd be late, etc. and she made sure I was comfortable. Nowadays, more and more often she goes out without telling me, stays out longer than she "should", out with new people, doesn't text or call, and sometimes I don't have a clue where she is. It doesn't ever make me think she's cheating. The thought honestly doesn't cross my mind (from that). When she's out (or I'm at the office) I don't ever feel the need to check her location or anything like that. I'm about to be gone 50% of the time with work travel and I'm not worried in the slightest about what she's going to be doing. Granted, she always has 3-6 kids home with her and always has at least the tit leech with her when she goes out. Not like kids being around will deter all cheaters though.
> 
> I do think she could go the next 40+ years without cheating again, and I really don't think it would happen again. So it is possible to get to that point.


You said “again,”’so she did cheat?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Openminded said:


> I can’t risk it either. My ability to trust is gone. Now I casually date and I’m upfront that I’m no longer capable of more than that. Infidelity takes a toll. Some do overcome it but I’m not one of them as far as relationships go.


And thus we have joined the ranks of emotionally unavailable men.

My relationships were never about infidelity, but the splits takes its toll all the same.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> You said “again,”’so she did cheat?


Yep


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Yep


But just once?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> But just once?


Far, far from.

Two guys. One was for 4 years, with a kid conceived, the other was off and on for 8½ years.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Far, far from.
> 
> Two guys. One was for 4 years, with a kid conceived, the other was off and on for 8½ years.


Wow


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> And thus we have joined the ranks of emotionally unavailable men.
> 
> My relationships were never about infidelity, but the splits takes its toll all the same.


Openminded is a lady.

You don't have to join the ranks if you don't want to. My bf was also cheated on, his ex married her AP before the ink was dry on their decree. And she alienated his kids from him completely, yet he didn't choose to join the ranks of emotionally available men. I think his kindness, consideration, and patience made it easier for me to avoid becoming bitter. 

Even if we don't work out as a couple (I have no reason to believe that), I've learned so much from him and appreciate the quality of man he is. He's had a LOT of knocks in life, but he keeps standing up, he's a shining example of what I wanted for myself. It really is up to you to make what you want out of life happen.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TXTrini said:


> Openminded is a lady.


🤦‍♂️

All this time!



> You don't have to join the ranks if you don't want to. My bf was also cheated on, his ex married her AP before the ink was dry on their decree. And she alienated his kids from him completely, yet he didn't choose to join the ranks of emotionally available men. I think his kindness, consideration, and patience made it easier for me to avoid becoming bitter.
> 
> Even if we don't work out as a couple (I have no reason to believe that), I've learned so much from him and appreciate the quality of man he is. He's had a LOT of knocks in life, but he keeps standing up, he's a shining example of what I wanted for myself. It really is up to you to make what you want out of life happen.


Not everything is a choice, I don't have bitterness towards my ex or any woman but doesn't mean my heart wasn't shattered again and again even after the last leap of faith. Even those I did not love, the toll is there as with every other disappointment.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> Openminded is a lady.
> 
> You don't have to join the ranks if you don't want to. My bf was also cheated on, his ex married her AP before the ink was dry on their decree. And she alienated his kids from him completely, yet he didn't choose to join the ranks of emotionally available men. I think his kindness, consideration, and patience made it easier for me to avoid becoming bitter.
> 
> Even if we don't work out as a couple (I have no reason to believe that), I've learned so much from him and appreciate the quality of man he is. He's had a LOT of knocks in life, but he keeps standing up, he's a shining example of what I wanted for myself. It really is up to you to make what you want out of life happen.


I'm emotionally unavailable and I'm ok with that


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> I'm emotionally unavailable and I'm ok with that


I think I'm on the grieving phase of my emotional availability, a part of me has not yet accepted my unavailability, mourning the part that used to be available I guess.

Like you said in the other thread, guess it takes time.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I'm emotionally unavailable and I'm ok with that


That's why I said it's a choice. Once you're upfront with women you get involved with, no harm no foul. Not everyone is looking to couple up.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> 🤦‍♂️
> 
> All this time!


😂
_hums the crying game_


RandomDude said:


> Not everything is a choice, I don't have bitterness towards my ex or any woman but doesn't mean my heart wasn't shattered again and again even after the last leap of faith. Even those I did not love, the toll is there as with every other disappointment.


That's life, it's the same for everyone. Almost no-one escapes scot-free.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I can relate more than you think, my wife has gone into a "hyper-religious" phase right now and sex is off the table. I'm totally sex starved and I'm still figuring out where to go from here. I'm contemplating divorce myself since my wife has been anything but the most supportive person I've known and she had an EA where she chased a guy who luckily didn't bite 3 years ago.
> 
> Right now I can only assume she doesn't love me anymore and in some ways I actually would have found it simpler if she crossed my line of a PA and I could have just kicked her out.
> 
> I'm giving it until the end of the year and perhaps, most likely, I'd be a single old fart again. Who knows? I'm not looking forward to any of it, but I'm not there for the convenience of someone who sees me as some kind of convenience.


Hyper religious has nothing to do with it, it is her misconceived personal notions. 
I am Apostolic Pentecostal, and wife and I are good at least 5 days a week. Sex is supposed to be freely abundant between spouses. Bible say not to withhold but for a short time for prayer and fasting and then come back together. If she is saying it is religious....it is not Christianity.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

We tend to forgive our own sins, those transgressions, but never anothers?

Are we that perfect?

......................................................................................

My answer to this Thread?

Forgive, never forget....then divorce.

I am not Atlas.

It is all I can do, to carry my own sorrows, my own sorry ass, along, and alone.

Saying sorry helps no one that is bloody wounded from a loved one's wrong doings.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

The Middleman said:


> Infidelity is my line in the sand. If my wife was ‘intimate’ with another man, there won’t even be a discussion. I’m gone and everyone will know everything.


Sand shifts, I poured a concrete divider! The good Lord put me with a woman that feels same as I do. I consider one who has an affair and continues to have sex with spouse, a sex offender and they would be treated as such. 

Either way divorce is necessary as I will feed the raging fire in me to burn ❤‍🔥 out every last bit of love or respect I had for a wife that did it to erase them from my heart.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Some of you may chuckle at this post.

I am not, one person, one man.

I have in me _The Martian._
I have in me _The Magician._
I have in me _The Philosopher._
I have in me the vain, profane _Typist._

The self centered_ Martian_ is always battling for dominance.
Of late, he is fading.

_Martians_ are unforgiving and harsh.
Hard-headed, hard-hearted.

My HeadMates, they resist.
Um.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> Some of you may chuckle at this post.
> 
> I am not, one person, one man.
> 
> ...


Okay,


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Who would want to live with someone that is not what they seem to be at face value, not truly your friend, and is just using you while secretly seeking their jollies elsewhere, probably giving up more of themselves to others than to you and unwittingly having strangers brought into your relationship, including not even a thought of the psychological damage this may bring on the children if having children.
This is the deal one is getting when married to a cheater.
Once a partner finds solace with another or others outside the relationship, than consider it done, that includes one night stands and quickies somewhere in the backseat of a car.
My answer to the OP`s question is a huge *NO.*


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I can relate more than you think, *my wife has gone into a "hyper-religious" phase right now and sex is off the table.* I'm totally sex starved and I'm still figuring out where to go from here. I'm contemplating divorce .....
> 
> *Right now I can only assume she doesn't love me anymore* and in some ways I actually would have found it simpler if she crossed my line of a PA and I could have just kicked her out.
> 
> *I'm giving it until the end of the year and perhaps, *most likely, I'd be a single old fart again. Who knows? I'm not looking forward to any of it, but I'm not there for the convenience of someone who sees me as some kind of convenience.


Again, my heart goes out to you.

First, I would not assume she doesn't love you. Even when my wife refused to have sex with me and told me she had no sexual desire for me and she never wanted to have sex with me, she "loved me"..........just no like a wife or lover. I found it hard to believe that she could love me, but she felt that she did. When my dog died of old age, I felt an incredible loss of unconditional love. After that, I could understand that love can be present without sex. However, for me, marriage by definition includes sex, even as you age.

Have you really talked to her, and asked her if she loves you? Have you asked her if she wants you as a room mate, as a friend, as a travel companion, or someone to driver her places, as a financial partner? Have you asked her what she feels your role is in her life, or if you have a future role at all? Her answers might surprise you.

One of the things that the Sex Therapist did was help us visualize what we each wanted our life to be in 5, 10, 15 20 years and how we wanted each other, if at all to be part of that role. 

I have no idea what hyper religious has to do with sex being off the table? My wife had lots of hang-ups being raised Catholic, but she never once after marriage blamed religion on her not wanting to have sex with me. A husband and wife take vows of marriage, not vows of celibacy. 

Again, good luck. I hope you find happiness.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Imy wife has gone into a "hyper-religious" phase right now and sex is off the table. I'm totally sex starved.


That’s odd since the Bible talks about the importance of sex in marriage. So I would either question her religious knowledge or that perhaps something else was going on with her that is making her withhold sex.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Tough question. we actually had this talk a few weeks ago during a long getaway weekend. Thinking of that song, “I’m only human, born to make mistakes,” and recalling one of my fave Bible stories when Jesus says those without sin can cast the fist stone …
> 
> I told her it would be hard but I would forgive her. That said, she’s not sure she could do the same if I strayed. “probably not,” she said. So there ya go.
> 
> of course this is all speculation. I’d think a lot would depend on the circumstances, the other person, how often, one time, etc.


The Bible mentions many times how adultery is one of the few justifications for divorce. But yes, forgiveness is key whether you stay or divorce.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

For me it was a deal breaker. However, to each his own, and everyone has to decide what is right for them.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

bobert said:


> Far, far from.
> 
> Two guys. One was for 4 years, with a kid conceived, the other was off and on for 8½ years.


So more years cheating during your marriage than not?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

sideways said:


> For me it was a deal breaker. However, to each his own, and everyone has to decide what is right for them.


I think the marital history and whether the cheater was overly abusive during the affair( gaslighting, picking fights, abandoning responsibility, financial abuse to subsidize the cheating, etc) factors in.
Based on what I have read and my own experience, these ancillary abuses often accompany the cheating( which, of course, is abusive by itself.
In addition many cheaters have been less than ideal partners for a long time in the marriage. Seems rare that a person with the qualities neccessary to cheat is not seriously deficient in integrity and empathy. Lack of these qualities has made many hell to live with even before the cheating.
In my case, I must admit that discovery of the cheating was a bit of a relief. It confirmed that I had not lost my marbles ( lots of gaslighting) and it motivated me to get away from an abuser.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I can relate more than you think, my wife has gone into a "hyper-religious" phase right now and sex is off the table. I'm totally sex starved and I'm still figuring out where to go from here. I'm contemplating divorce myself since my wife has been anything but the most supportive person I've known and she had an EA where she chased a guy who luckily didn't bite 3 years ago.
> 
> Right now I can only assume she doesn't love me anymore and in some ways I actually would have found it simpler if she crossed my line of a PA and I could have just kicked her out.
> 
> I'm giving it until the end of the year and perhaps, most likely, I'd be a single old fart again. Who knows? I'm not looking forward to any of it, but I'm not there for the convenience of someone who sees me as some kind of convenience.


That is strange, because Christianity is all about the approval of and importance of sex between spouses in marriage. 

Good luck to you my friend.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I don't know for sure but my guess is maybe. I will say definitely not for sure divorce. Would depend on the relationship at the time and if I felt we were headed for divorce anyway. I have never assumed marriage is forever. I always approached it in the present time as I have never known what the future held for me and as such am a live in the present type. I'm also not a big chip on my shoulder person who can't forgive or so "proud" how dare anyone ever wrong me type. So maybe


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

I voted no because this was a future-tense question. 

I was cheated on by ex- wife and I did take her back for a while, but after it became clear to me that she was not committed to permanent change and showed no real remorse. I divorced her and I vowed to myself I would never tolerate cheating ever again.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> So more years cheating during your marriage than not?


We started dating in 2003 and married in December 2007. 

Her first affair went from around January 2006 to May 2010. So it started before we even married. She kept ****ing him right up until our wedding, then "stopped" for a whole two weeks after saying "I do". She ****ed the other AP leading up to one of his weddings, including the morning of. So, overall a lovely person who respects marriage so much 🙄

With the second AP, it was:
-Daily **** buddy from October-Dec 2005 while we were broken up
-ONS in November 2009
-Grey area from Dec 2009 to February 2011
-June 2013 to August 2013 
-June 2015 to August 2015 
-September 2016 to September 2017
-July 2018 to January 2019

In between those times nothing was going on and it was "over", until it wasn't. I could do the math to try and convince myself that it "wasn't that bad". But really, in almost 20 years, she was faithful for the first three years and the last almost 4. That's it.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

bobert said:


> We started dating in 2003 and married in December 2007.
> 
> Her first affair went from around January 2006 to May 2010. So it started before we even married. She kept ****ing him right up until our wedding, then "stopped" for a whole two weeks after saying "I do". She ****ed the other AP leading up to one of his weddings, including the morning of. So, overall a lovely person who respects marriage so much 🙄
> 
> ...


I couldn't live with such a "person" in my life, I'm really really sorry you had to go through this.

It also does not bode well for future faithfulness.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Before it happened to me, I was one who always said it would be an absolute relationship ender and divorce without a second though...

When it happened to me, I discovered that I was absolutely right. I filed for divorce the day I found out, and never looked back.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

bobert said:


> We started dating in 2003 and married in December 2007.
> 
> Her first affair went from around January 2006 to May 2010. So it started before we even married. She kept ****ing him right up until our wedding, then "stopped" for a whole two weeks after saying "I do". She ****ed the other AP leading up to one of his weddings, including the morning of. So, overall a lovely person who respects marriage so much 🙄
> 
> ...


You probably know this, but your wife is a total POS. I really can't comprehend why you punish yourself by staying married to her and continue to bring more children into this ****show. Is it possible you are keeping her tied up with kids to keep her too busy to cheat again?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> We started dating in 2003 and married in December 2007.
> 
> Her first affair went from around January 2006 to May 2010. So it started before we even married. She kept ****ing him right up until our wedding, then "stopped" for a whole two weeks after saying "I do". She ****ed the other AP leading up to one of his weddings, including the morning of. So, overall a lovely person who respects marriage so much 🙄
> 
> ...


Hope you are getting periodic STD tests. She is pretty prolific. Drilled pretty deep, as they say.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

ArthurGPym said:


> I voted no because this was a future-tense question.
> 
> I was cheated on by ex- wife and I did take her back for a while, but after it became clear to me that she was not committed to permanent change and showed no real remorse. I divorced her and I vowed to myself I would never tolerate cheating ever again.


I actually didn’t vote because of this issue. I tried to reconcile and failed and then legally separated and am going to divorce in time. But… that’s not really a no is it. If I answered this before it actually happened to me… I would have said no.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Early in my marriage I would have said that this is a line in the sand for me. Cheating would have lead to divorce immediately. About 10-15 years in, I realized that I would want to work it out if my spouse cheated and they showed desire to work it out. Then I started to think of everything she would have to do to rebuild trust, and I realized that nobody would go through the things I would need to rebuild trust.

In the end, I'm back where I began. Cheating would lead to immediate divorce, although I would at least listen to reconciliation proposals.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

bobert said:


> We started dating in 2003 and married in December 2007.
> 
> Her first affair went from around January 2006 to May 2010. So it started before we even married. She kept ****ing him right up until our wedding, then "stopped" for a whole two weeks after saying "I do". She ****ed the other AP leading up to one of his weddings, including the morning of. So, overall a lovely person who respects marriage so much 🙄
> 
> ...


Bobert, can I ask why you’re so trusting at this point that she won’t cheat again? Just out of curiosity, what she’s done to convince you this thoroughly.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> I actually didn’t vote because of this issue. I tried to reconcile and failed and then legally separated and am going to divorce in time. But… that’s not really a no is it. If I answered this before it actually happened to me… I would have said no.


I didn’t vote either. I was always positive I would divorce immediately but I didn’t. Definitely some do but some try to reconcile — in my case for many years — before finally getting out. It can get a lot more complicated for many than they think it will.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Openminded said:


> I didn’t vote either. I was always positive I would divorce immediately but I didn’t. Definitely some do but some try to reconcile — in my case for many years — before finally getting out. It can get a lot more complicated for many than they think it will.


It’s like your entire brain goes haywire and you then immediately have a complete crisis of identity. It’s not something that can be understood if not experienced. Like many terrible things. I have a lot of compassion for people when they want to reconcile… but it’s because I know the immense pain that lies ahead. Cheating is literally one of the most terrible things a human can do to someone.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> People say but they don’t act ….


I certainly did.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

You should have this poll done in three parts.

1) EA, no PA
2) ONS
3) full PA

Bet the percentages would be different for each, in ascending order


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Gabriel said:


> You should have this poll done in three parts.
> 
> 1) EA, no PA
> 2) ONS
> ...


I'm not so sure about the order. If the EA included professing love for the OM I would be just as broken as if she had sex with him.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> We started dating in 2003 and married in December 2007.
> 
> Her first affair went from around January 2006 to May 2010. So it started before we even married. She kept ****ing him right up until our wedding, then "stopped" for a whole two weeks after saying "I do". She ****ed the other AP leading up to one of his weddings, including the morning of. So, overall a lovely person who respects marriage so much 🙄
> 
> ...


Wow brother, I’m so sorry to hear that. Did you know all of this was going on at the time or find out later?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not so sure about the order. If the EA included professing love for the OM I would be just as broken as if she had sex with him.


There is no coming back from your wife telling someone else that he/she is the love of her life.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So I have a question.

Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak? 

I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.


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## umbluu (Jan 24, 2020)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.


I do as well. It is usually framed as "I have more self-respect"...
I have no problem with "I no longer trust him/her and find it impossible to rebuild that trust"


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not so sure about the order. If the EA included professing love for the OM I would be just as broken as if she had sex with him.


Maybe so. I think the results would be different in each scenario. It would be an interesting poll - more interesting than lumping them all together. It's very nuanced.

There are also levels within EAs....from some flirty texts, to outright plans to run away together, and everything in between.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.


Seems to be. But on the other hand, those that actually dither around and try to reconcile typically end in the divorce line within a few year anyways or they stay with their spouse but despise their presence.

To take back a cheater and really forgive them and then move on and create a loving marriage either takes a high degree of self delusion or an amazing capacity of grace.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Gabriel said:


> Maybe so. I think the results would be different in each scenario. It would be an interesting poll - more interesting than lumping them all together. It's very nuanced.
> 
> There are also levels within EAs....from some flirty texts, to outright plans to run away together, and everything in between.


That's the problem. You broke it up into 3 categories, but in reality there are nearly a infinite number of scenarios. That is why I can't say I would never reconcile. Even if I can't think of a scenario off the top of my head in which I would consider reconciling I can't say for sure that one doesn't exist.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.


I sense it a little too, but I chalk it up to the extreme emotions it has created in them. Any hard line stance is going to come off like they are right and you are wrong if you don't agree. It doesn't just apply to infidelity.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.


I would never feel that I´m stronger than the ones that choosed reconciliation. And neither weaker.
Partly but only partly because I respect other one´s choices.
Mainly cos people haves own conceptions of what is desirable, of what is a couple, on what love is.
Seems that those who share a strong common view of those things would, just perhaps, take the same roads.
Or in other words, that someone that does in clash with their previous standings, had the need to make a revission of them. What may happen, of course.

I once had the sad "opportunity" to weight which one of both paths to take.
Did it according to what already thought I would.
Not a special merit, just my consistent choice.

Not related to your specific post, but may make my answer clearer....
When I hear or read people saying that the lack of trust is what ends or should end the relationship my first reaction is to agree, sounds like reasonable, but.......
In a second thought I wander if are we meaning the same.
Isn´t is trust about what didn´t already happened? Or about what you don´t know enough? Or about intentions, second meanings? And such?
If I understand rightly that do not apply to a known lack of loyalty.
Can you trust that never happened?
Or whom think so are also saying that they wouldn´t accept it twice?

For me was and is a point of no return.
Don´t need to be so for others.
Not solely cos a mental category as trust seems to be.
But cos there is no place for it in the nature of the relationshps I would stay in.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.



I think it's because that level of conviction/certainty can just look that way.


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## TheSkyIsBlue (2 mo ago)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.


I sense it to, but its something I see alot both online and in real life when discussing this issue with others. I think its a trigger button for many folks, especially those that have been hurt before. Personally I feel that staying with my spouse and working through the adultery was far more difficult than leaving but I also know that the decision to stay isn't right for everyone.

Reading this thread makes me sad. I can feel the hurt that people have gone through (oftentimes masked as anger) and as someone who has been there and knows the devastating pain adultery causes, it makes me want to hug everyone here who has been forced to deal with this.


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## Lovingwife71 (Mar 28, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not so sure about the order. If the EA included professing love for the OM I would be just as broken as if she had sex with him.


See, this is what I feel too. I read many posts that say things to the effect of "maybe you can stop the EA before it becomes physical" or "at least it was only an EA and not a PA." In my opinion an EA can be much more devastating than a PA or ONS. I guess maybe looking at it a PA is an EA that has become physical as well, maybe that's why it's so much worse? The risk of STD with a PA also adds to the devastation. I think I could forgive my husband easier if he was horny and F'd someone than if he fell in love with someone. The point I am trying to make is, I agree that an EA can be just as devastating as a PA, depending on the circumstances involved.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TheSkyIsBlue said:


> Personally I feel that staying with my spouse and working through the adultery was far more difficult than leaving but I also know that the decision to stay isn't right for everyone.


I reconciled and then years later divorced. For me reconciling was many times more difficult than divorcing.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Lovingwife71 said:


> See, this is what I feel too. I read many posts that say things to the effect of "maybe you can stop the EA before it becomes physical" or "at least it was only an EA and not a PA." In my opinion an EA can be much more devastating than a PA or ONS. I guess maybe looking at it a PA is an EA that has become physical as well, maybe that's why it's so much worse? The risk of STD with a PA also adds to the devastation. I think I could forgive my husband easier if he was horny and F'd someone than if he fell in love with someone. The point I am trying to make is, I agree that an EA can be just as devastating as a PA, depending on the circumstances involved.


My observation is that men generally will stay when their wife has had an EA but not as often when it's a PA. For women, it’s frequently the reverse — especially if their husband tells someone else “I love you”. That was true for me. I reconciled after my exH’s PA. I divorced after he told the OM he loved her. At that point I was done. He fought the divorce because it was never his intention to leave (and he claimed he only told her he loved her because she said it first and he didn’t want to hurt her feelings — yeah, whatever). Sex is one thing but love is another story entirely.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Megaforce said:


> I think the marital history and whether the cheater was overly abusive during the affair( gaslighting, picking fights, abandoning responsibility, financial abuse to subsidize the cheating, etc) factors in.
> Based on what I have read and my own experience, these ancillary abuses often accompany the cheating( which, of course, is abusive by itself.
> In addition many cheaters have been less than ideal partners for a long time in the marriage. Seems rare that a person with the qualities neccessary to cheat is not seriously deficient in integrity and empathy. Lack of these qualities has made many hell to live with even before the cheating.
> *In my case, I must admit that discovery of the cheating was a bit of a relief. It confirmed that I had not lost my marbles ( lots of gaslighting) and it motivated me to get away from an abuser.*


That's exactly how I felt when I got over the shock and accepted the reality of my situation. There have been many things that happened that I was too ashamed to share here, things I should never have tolerated, but did out of love and duty.

Once the scales fall from your eyes, and you see them for who they truly are, you can't unsee, or forget how they treated you. Especially if you couldn't contemplate treating someone you love so callously. I can honestly say, I have no ill will toward my ex, more disappointment in myself that I took so long to see what was in front of me. Mind you, I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire 😂, not claiming sainthood or anything.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

bobert said:


> We started dating in 2003 and married in December 2007.
> 
> Her first affair went from around January 2006 to May 2010. So it started before we even married. She kept ****ing him right up until our wedding, then "stopped" for a whole two weeks after saying "I do". She ****ed the other AP leading up to one of his weddings, including the morning of. So, overall a lovely person who respects marriage so much 🙄
> 
> ...


bobert,
I've read many of your posts over the years and I respect you as a person. You've been tough but fair and full of heart. I have to ask you this though, is this what you think you deserve? It hurts to see you so defeated, but if this is the life you choose, I hope you can find a way to rise above it and be happy. It just seems that you've completely sacrificed yourself for your children, and I just can't understand why. How will you feel if they go on to repeat history one day?

Anyway, no judgement, just sadness here. For you. Life is short.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.



I didn't see this at all. Like I said, I walked away but that was what was best for me. I did not have any kids, and if I had, there's a good chance I may have given reconciliation a chance.

As for being "weak"??

In my humble opinion, it would have taken more strength to stay.

I think we can agree that the cheaters are all the same, but the BS? Every situation is different. Who am I (or anyone else) to sit back and judge a BS for attempting to make it work.

Each of us have to live with ourselves and be able to live with the choices we make.

Being betrayed and going through infidelity is one of the worst things ever. I (like anyone else) can share what ultimately worked for me, but what worked for me, may not work for someone else at D day or at any other point along this $h!t sandwich.

We all want to help someone that finds themselves in infidelity, to try to lessen their pain, but ultimately all we can do is share our experience and try to support and encourage betrayed individuals.

Judging them for their decisions? Who am I to judge anyone.

We're all broken and we all need Grace and Mercy.

When I went through my betrayal over 30 yrs ago I knew what I needed to do ( and did it immediately), but man oh man how I could have used a place like TAM. What a Rollercoaster of emotions and what a mind %uck!!

So thank God for this place and to all the people here who are willing to share their experience that came from GUT WRENCHING PAIN!!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.


I didn't take it as such. Good for them; they wasted less time. It's human nature for people to do this for whatever reason. You think BS don't detect superiority from people who haven't been cheated on (or know), especially when some point out you picked your spouse? The implication is your picker is bad, you're defective, etc. Heck, as a BS, I do have a bias against people who choose to cheat instead of leaving, regardless of their circumstances. 

So what? 

I understand the desire to reconcile, but I don't see this as weakness unless the person is willfully oblivious to reality and their motives are financial/security based and not because they have a genuinely remorseful WS who makes every effort to do their part. I don't think choosing to reconcile for the right reasons in the right circumstances is weak, but reconciling for the wrong reasons just seems to prolong the misery and delay the inevitable outcome.

Of course, it's up to the BS to determine what constitutes the right reasons and circumstances, but I've observed many people stay out of fear and aren't honest with themselves, but it's their life.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

sideways said:


> I didn't see this at all. Like I said, I walked away but that was what was best for me. I did not have any kids, and if I had, there's a good chance I may have given reconciliation a chance.
> 
> As for being "weak"??
> 
> ...


For me it was about self-respect. Could I look at myself in the mirror every morning if I decided to stay? I didn't think I could.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.


For most people, there is a level of disgust when contemplating this subject. Especially in a “what would you do” scenario. That comes across as hard nosed. I don’t think most people intend to be insulting, but perhaps they feel insulted at their core for having it done or thinking of it. (But there are a few people that have superiority in all they do and say. I don’t discount that idea entirely. 🤣)


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TheSkyIsBlue said:


> I sense it to, but its something I see alot both online and in real life when discussing this issue with others. I think its a trigger button for many folks, especially those that have been hurt before. Personally I feel that staying with my spouse and working through the adultery was far more difficult than leaving but I also know that the decision to stay isn't right for everyone.
> 
> Reading this thread makes me sad. I can feel the hurt that people have gone through (oftentimes masked as anger) and as someone who has been there and knows the devastating pain adultery causes, it makes me want to hug everyone here who has been forced to deal with this.


Yeah, I do not think either is easier or that one requires more strength than the other.
I, often, bristle a bit when I read how someone thinks it takes greater strength to reconcile. 
First, how would they know?
Second, I wonder if they know what it is like to be away from one's kids and to pay spousal,maintenance to someone that stabbed you in the back. Not exactly easy.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I actually didn’t vote because of this issue. I tried to reconcile and failed and then legally separated and am going to divorce in time. But… that’s not really a no is it. If I answered this before it actually happened to me… I would have said no.


When I married my ex-wife back in the '90s I had a fairly liberal attitude towards love and relationships, and I was very young. I thought back then that if my wife had a ONS then I would forgive her if she had stepped out, BUT if it was a long term affair then no way: I would divorce her. Then when it actually happened, and the sudden shock and overwhelming emotions hit me, I decided to give her another chance, even though her affair had lasted several months. At first I mistook her regret and shame for sympathy and remorse, but of course I soon came to realize she was just sad she got caught and was not remorseful or willing to work on herself at all, so I reluctantly filed for divorce. Then she got served, and after that she got spiteful and nasty and fought me tooth and nail and did everything she could to tear me apart, so lesson learned on that one. Never again will I stay with a cheater.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

ArthurGPym said:


> When I married my ex-wife back in the '90s I had a fairly liberal attitude towards love and relationships, and I was very young. I thought back then that if my wife had a ONS then I would forgive her if she had stepped out, BUT if it was a long term affair then no way: I would divorce her. Then when it actually happened, and the sudden shock and overwhelming emotions hit me, I decided to give her another chance, even though her affair had lasted several months. At first I mistook her regret and shame for sympathy and remorse, but of course I soon came to realize she was just sad she got caught and was not remorseful or willing to work on herself at all, so I reluctantly filed for divorce. Then she got served, and after that she got spiteful and nasty and fought me tooth and nail and did everything she could to tear me apart, so lesson learned on that one. Never again will I stay with a cheater.


I do believe in redemption, I don’t think that a cheater will always have to live with the scarlet letter or something. But I do think it is very difficult to turn that behavior around, and that’s very very rare to find once they get to that point. Especially in a person that chases a high and is selfish. I think most times if the cheater is ever going to be a good spouse for someone… it’s likely not ever going to be the person they betrayed. So all that to say, I agree with you. Lessons hard won in my case too. 

The human mind is so strange and complicated. I’d bet deep down it’s just easier to hate and punish you than to hate and punish herself. I’m sorry that happened to you.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You probably know this, but your wife is a total POS. I really can't comprehend why you punish yourself by staying married to her and continue to bring more children into this ****show. Is it possible you are keeping her tied up with kids to keep her too busy to cheat again?


Maybe partly, but it's more like having 9 months of claiming/marking my territory, and not wanting her to be desirable to anyone else (6 kids, with a body to match).

Last night I was pissed at her and felt the need to have sex with her, with the feeling of reclaiming what's mine and the angry "you did it with him, you'll do it with me". She tried saying no because she's ovulating or near it but we did it anyway and foolish choices were made. I didn't care but she did. She took Plan B this morning without saying anything to me about it and lied about it and why she was sick, and now I'm extremely and irrationally pissed about it and the perceived rejection or whatever it is. And that's after being pissed at her for the last 4 weeks because she didn't want me to get my botched vasectomy fixed and had a mental breakdown over it. So I didn't do it but I have been pissed about it. So she's a basketcase, and apparently so am I.



Megaforce said:


> Hope you are getting periodic STD tests. She is pretty prolific. Drilled pretty deep, as they say.


I don't. I don't feel the need to do that.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Bobert, can I ask why you’re so trusting at this point that she won’t cheat again? Just out of curiosity, what she’s done to convince you this thoroughly.


She feels like absolute **** for doing what she did and hates herself for it. She knows she is a POS and feels that everyday, all day. She's depressed enough about it, I don't think she could live with the guilt if she did it again. She put in a lot of effort to fix her issues. It's not like she's all fixed up (and I doubt she ever will be) but the way she thinks is a lot better then it was. She has made choices that show I can trust her if she's in a situation that could lead to something more. She's very honest, maybe too much sometimes. If a AP or something related is on her mind, she tells me. And that sucks but the honesty helps and it usually stops those thoughts for her. She's made a few dumb choices (not cheating again) since D-Day but for the most part, she hasn't given me any new reason to worry. She hasn't cheated again even when I probably pushed her to/tried to test her. Learning why she did what she did helped a lot. And she knows she could cheat again which is better than someone thinking it would never happen again (or at all). Her guard is always up and probably too much but it prevents anyone from getting close. 



SCDad01 said:


> Wow brother, I’m so sorry to hear that. Did you know all of this was going on at the time or find out later?


I suspected something in 2010 but let it go. Found out the truth about 4 years ago. I didn't sit around knowing she was actively being the town ***** and just take it.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

do not have the time to read seven pages.

truth is to divorce or to recover a marriage is not a black and white issue.

more truths, some regret attempting recovery, others glad they did.

the correct choice is based on the people involved, who, what, when, where, why, and how.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

also more important how many voted yes or no is how many of the people that voted 
were a WS or BS.

A person that never has been a WS or a BS and voted, have votes that maybe suspect.
Easy to say what one would do in a war and another when on the battlefield being shot at.

another fact. BS prior to learning that they were cheated on have not did what they would
do if they were cheated on.

fact, 79% of marriages survive infidelity.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldtruck said:


> also more important how many voted yes or no is how many of the people that voted
> were a WS or BS.
> 
> A person that never has been a WS or a BS and voted, have votes that maybe suspect.
> ...


I wonder how many of those that survive are happy and healthy marriages.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> bobert,
> I've read many of your posts over the years and I respect you as a person. You've been tough but fair and full of heart. I have to ask you this though, is this what you think you deserve? It hurts to see you so defeated, but if this is the life you choose, I hope you can find a way to rise above it and be happy. It just seems that you've completely sacrificed yourself for your children, and I just can't understand why. How will you feel if they go on to repeat history one day?
> 
> Anyway, no judgement, just sadness here. For you. Life is short.


I don't think "I deserve better" has ever come out of my mouth or keyboard. I don't think it's even ever been a thought. Quite the opposite really.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?
> 
> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


Is this a real question ?


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## InLimbo50 (3 mo ago)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?
> 
> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


I always thought I knew how I would handle it, but I just found out he cheated, and I feel frozen. Too shocked, angry, betrayed to even breathe. Dumbfounded.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

InLimbo50 said:


> I always thought I knew how I would handle it, but I just found out he cheated, and I feel frozen. Too shocked, angry, betrayed to even breathe. Dumbfounded.


If he’s like most cheaters who don’t want a divorce (I was married to one of those for a very long time) he’ll make all sorts of promises but that doesn’t mean he’ll actually change. He might or he might not. Be cautious.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Oh, I considered staying once upon a time. But seeing that I basically become my cheating partner's jailer (i.e. having to keep track of their whereabouts, messages, etc.), I didn't want that to be me or my life.

I commend those who've stayed and are now truly happy. Really, I do. But personally, trying to work out whether you can regain trust for the person who stabbed you in the back is like giving them the knife back and hoping for the best.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?
> 
> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


It never happened to me (that I know of), so grains of salt.

No, I wouldn’t have an automatic response. It would depend on things like:


How long it went on
How many partners
Who were the partner(s)
Why did she do it
Did she confess out of guilt, confess under fear of it coming out soon for some reason, or didn’t confess and got caught
How she treated me during that time (insulting? cold? dead bedroom?)
Was all trust in her word destroyed by trickle truthing
Was she disparaging me to him in texts or emails
Did everybody know but me, and they all conspired to keep her secret

I have a teenage child and that alone would make me hesitant to divorce. Somewhat less so after she turns 18 and goes off to college, but I still would be hesitant.

My wife’s extended family has a lot of cheaters who got caught. I can’t think of one who divorced over it.

(Her Mom made out with another guy in her 20’s. Her Dad had a full affair in his 50’s. Paternal grandfather had multiple families around the country. Maternal grandfather had a 10 year affair and fathered a child that he never raised and never paid a dime. A few years ago, her favorite maternal aunt was at the family reunion telling many people that she was leaving her husband for her ex from high school, but then they stayed together. One of her maternal cousins said that the women in the family have done just as much as the men but don’t get caught. One paternal cousin divorced her husband to move in with her AP - he didn’t divorce her, she divorced him. One of my wife’s sisters was constantly cheated on by her husband and he got a woman pregnant (she aborted), and while they later divorced that supposedly wasn’t the reason. Her other sister’s husband had an affair a few years ago but they are still together.)


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

oldtruck said:


> fact, 79% of marriages survive infidelity.


Assuming the rate is a near to good one (I honesty have serious doubts about it as I would also have on the reverse one) I still wander on the deep meaning of such survival.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

QuietRiot said:


> It’s like your entire brain goes haywire and you then immediately have a complete crisis of identity. It’s not something that can be understood if not experienced. Like many terrible things. I have a lot of compassion for people when they want to reconcile… but it’s because I know the immense pain that lies ahead. Cheating is literally one of the most terrible things a human can do to someone.


Due to the emotional trauma...and exposure to others bodily fluids and possible STDs....that is why I consider it like sexual assault to the BS. 

That is why I have the reaction I have to adultry and lack of concern if a BS gets violent. Just a shame WS or AP are not the ones going to jail If BS inflicts grave bodily injury one one of them. If my POS sister's AP had a wife that injured/killed my sister, I would have said tough crap, should not have been screwing another man's wife, got what you had coming to you!


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## Lovingwife71 (Mar 28, 2018)

Openminded said:


> My observation is that men generally will stay when their wife has had an EA but not as often when it's a PA. For women, it’s frequently the reverse — especially if their husband tells someone else “I love you”. That was true for me. I reconciled after my exH’s PA. I divorced after he told the OM he loved her. At that point I was done. He fought the divorce because it was never his intention to leave (and he claimed he only told her he loved her because she said it first and he didn’t want to hurt her feelings — yeah, whatever). Sex is one thing but love is another story entirely.


I couldn't agree more with everything you've said. I don't believe your husband told her he loved her because he didn't want to hurt her feelings. We have read many posts about one person saying ILY without a response from the other. Could he have said it because he felt she may not stick around if he didn't? That's a possibility. Whatever the reason, I agree, ILY goes way past the line, IMO. Women can wrap their head around a man's horniness much easier than his falling in love. I think men see it as, if a woman has a sex with another man, she's probably fallen in love with him. I don't know that, but it would be my guess.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Bottom line, many people will answer this differently once it's happened to them.

And this answer may change depending on length of marriage, kids, finances, etc.

Sometimes it also depends on WHO the affair is with. There may be that one person you suspected and didn't like being around and the betrayal with that person feels more painful than with some rando at a bar. 

My wife had an EA with someone like that. He absolutely professed everything and wanted to be with her. She professed love, but kept things to the "it would be fun" level as opposed to the "yeah, I want to make this change" level - if that makes sense. She made no promises or plans - it was more of a "I wish things were different" type of thing. It hurt, badly, but given we were married 15 years at that time with 3 kids and very entwined lives, I felt the reconciliation path was the way to go. It felt fixable. And it's been 11 years and we are still married and doing decently well.

If they had consummated their feelings with sex, it would have been over. Both for her and for me. I wouldn't have come back from it and that would have meant she chose to leave.

As for the ONS one, that's tougher. That hasn't happened so I'm not sure how severely I'd react. I think if it happened before this EA, and it was a blind drunk thing where she was out of her mind, I may have survived it. If it was with someone she/we knew, then probably not. And anything post this EA would be a dealbreaker.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

InLimbo50 said:


> I always thought I knew how I would handle it, but I just found out he cheated, and I feel frozen. Too shocked, angry, betrayed to even breathe. Dumbfounded.


So sorry that happened to you. Being shocked is very common. Did you confront him yet?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TheSkyIsBlue said:


> I sense it to, but its something I see alot both online and in real life when discussing this issue with others. I think its a trigger button for many folks, especially those that have been hurt before. Personally I feel that staying with my spouse and working through the adultery was far more difficult than leaving but I also know that the decision to stay isn't right for everyone.


I know myself and the punishment and retribution that I would inflict on the one who betrayed me, would not be healthy for either of us. I know it is something I could not...no....i would not overcome in the end, in order to reconcile. So for myself, it would be best to just nuke her and APs life and start a new.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

oldtruck said:


> fact, 79% of marriages survive infidelity.


I highly doubt that stat. I've seen 30% with most of those eventually leaving. It's the #1 cause of divorce in the US.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

It was certainly the best decision for me. I wondered aimlessly for three years before I realized that I no longer wanted to think about her cheating. The only way to achieve that was to divorce. She was the model wife for those three years, remorseful and transparent. It didn’t matter. The divorce was for me.

As it turns out, the divorce was very beneficial to her as well. I have become so angry and jaded, staying with me would have been miserable for her and our kids. I’m living my best life now in my 50’s. Dating/girlfriends aside, I’ve learned that I’m far more content being by myself and with my friends and family. The mistake was getting married a second time to begin with, her cheating was just the excuse i used to end it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

SCDad01 said:


> I highly doubt that stat. I've seen 30% with most of those eventually leaving. It's the #1 cause of divorce in the US.


Yeah, the stats are all over the place, but clearly biased by source. Therapists and psychologists say about 60% survive, general psych articles claim about 50%, Catholic sources say 75%, and recent _possibly _unbiased surveys say about 15% survive. Several sources say about 40% of marriages experience infidelity.

Once article says it also depends on the nature of the affair: "... women were almost twice as likely to say they were still with their partner following a confession of infidelity. And the nature of the affair also played a role, considering that 19.7 percent of couples chose to stay together after a one-night stand, versus only 12.7 percent of couples who found out their partner had engaged in a long term affair."

The article goes on to say (and I say WFT!?): "...only roughly 30 percent of cheaters said their partner demanded that they *end* the affair [maybe they were just going to divorce?], and 27.8 percent of them said their partner told them they couldn't even communicate with the opposite sex without their explicit permission."


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Married but Happy said:


> Yeah, the stats are all over the place, but clearly biased by source. Therapists and psychologists say about 60% survive, general psych articles claim about 50%, Catholic sources say 75%, and recent _possibly _unbiased surveys say about 15% survive. Several sources say about 40% of marriages experience infidelity.
> 
> Once article says it also depends on the nature of the affair: "... women were almost twice as likely to say they were still with their partner following a confession of infidelity. And the nature of the affair also played a role, considering that 19.7 percent of couples chose to stay together after a one-night stand, versus only 12.7 percent of couples who found out their partner had engaged in a long term affair."
> 
> The article goes on to say (and I say WFT!?): "...only roughly 30 percent of cheaters said their partner demanded that they *end* the affair [maybe they were just going to divorce?], and 27.8 percent of them said their partner told them they couldn't even communicate with the opposite sex without their explicit permission."


Many of the stats don’t account for a time frame either. I saw a longitudinal study that showed if they stayed together initially and then the result at 5 years post infidelity…it was 35% stayed together initially, and then less than 25% of those were together at the 5 year mark (weren’t separated or filed for divorce). That seems more accurate to me. 

I think most marriages can’t survive an EA+PA affair. But I suppose if you throw in all the EA and ONS in the same pot you can substantially raise the stats as well.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Cletus said:


> So I have a question.
> 
> Is it just me (and maybe it is, that's why I'm asking), but does anyone else always catch a whiff of superiority from the folks who did not attempt to reconcile? That they not only believe that the choice was best for them, but best for everyone? That those who try to reconcile are weak?
> 
> I do, but I'm willing to recalibrate if it's only me.


So this is some of what I referring to - I don't think this is just my personal bias. 



wmn1 said:


> Is this a real question ?





She'sStillGotIt said:


> *34. *Lay down on the floor on your stomach when your spouse comes home so he/she can wipe their feet on your back because you've CHOSEN to degrade yourself and stay with a cheater.
> 
> *35.* Learn how to successfully eat a **** sandwich every single day for the rest of your life because in essence, you've CHOSEN to degrade yourself and stay with a cheater.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

bobert said:


> I don't think "I deserve better" has ever come out of my mouth or keyboard. I don't think it's even ever been a thought. Quite the opposite really.


@bobert ,
I followed your story from your first post, I was wondering what the update/summation was.Do you still believe it was her mental issues that 'caused' the affairs? As I told you before, You are stronger than I ever could have been staying with her, I just hope she isn't slowly sending you into insanity for it.

p.s. If you ever did a summary post or recent updates I missed it (and I looked) but if not it would be very beneficial to many BSs who come here.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> Yeah, the stats are all over the place, but clearly biased by source. Therapists and psychologists say about 60% survive, general psych articles claim about 50%, Catholic sources say 75%, and recent _possibly _unbiased surveys say about 15% survive. Several sources say about 40% of marriages experience infidelity.


My analysis:

20% of marriages end in divorce due to infidelity - that is, a cheater who got caught.

If 60% of the overall pool of marriages with a caught cheater reconcile and 40% end in divorce, that means that 48% of marriages will have a spouse caught cheating.

So, if 48% of marriages will have a cheater who gets caught, what additional percentage of marriages have cheating spouse(s) who NEVER get caught?

My guess: 60% to 70% will have at least one spouse engage in infidelity.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Lovingwife71 said:


> See, this is what I feel too. I read many posts that say things to the effect of "maybe you can stop the EA before it becomes physical" or "at least it was only an EA and not a PA." In my opinion an EA can be much more devastating than a PA or ONS. I guess maybe looking at it a PA is an EA that has become physical as well, maybe that's why it's so much worse? The risk of STD with a PA also adds to the devastation. I think I could forgive my husband easier if he was horny and F'd someone than if he fell in love with someone. The point I am trying to make is, I agree that an EA can be just as devastating as a PA, depending on the circumstances involved.


 I think this all boils down to the connections men and women have. Men are physical beings while women are emotional.
of course, there are lines that blur all through that spectrum but as a general rule women seem to be most upset by the breaking of the emotional bond and men are pissed because "his **** was in her".


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Lovingwife71 said:


> I couldn't agree more with everything you've said. I don't believe your husband told her he loved her because he didn't want to hurt her feelings. We have read many posts about one person saying ILY without a response from the other. Could he have said it because he felt she may not stick around if he didn't? That's a possibility. Whatever the reason, I agree, ILY goes way past the line, IMO. Women can wrap their head around a man's horniness much easier than his falling in love. I think men see it as, if a woman has a sex with another man, she's probably fallen in love with him. I don't know that, but it would be my guess.


Yes, I believe you’re correct. While I was certainly devastated when my husband had a PA it was nothing in comparison to seeing an email in which he told her he loved her. Men generally tend to be very unforgiving at the idea of their wife having sex with another man and more inclined to get past an EA. Women generally tend to be the opposite (lots of exceptions, of course). Sex can be just meaningless sex — and I spent years getting past that — but telling another woman he loved her was too far. He never understand that and for the rest of his life he continued to wish we could start over. Nope.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

SCDad01 said:


> I highly doubt that stat. I've seen 30% with most of those eventually leaving. It's the #1 cause of divorce in the US.


Typically, I have seen that 80% stat on " pay for reconciliation " sites. Even if it is true for folks on those sites, it is not representative, as those folks are a select group demonstrating their willingness to eat ****.
Imread 30% and of those, 7% report being happy. So, 30% x7%=2.1%.


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## Lovingwife71 (Mar 28, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I think this all boils down to the connections men and women have. Men are physical beings while women are emotional.
> of course, there are lines that blur all through that spectrum but as a general rule women seem to be most upset by the breaking of the emotional bond and men are pissed because "his **** was in her".


And that is exactly the point. Men ARE physical beings. So when they cross the line from meaningless sex to "I love you" and get emotionally involved with their AP, we women know there's much more going on. That's why we have more of an issue when men get emotionally involved, because we KNOW they aren't emotional beings by nature. Maybe the same is true for men and why they get more upset by women having sex with another man. Maybe they realize the OM is getting something they aren't. Just as we women realize the OW is getting something (some type of emotional connection) we aren't. Just my observation. FWIW.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> @bobert ,
> I followed your story from your first post, I was wondering what the update/summation was.Do you still believe it was her mental issues that 'caused' the affairs? As I told you before, You are stronger than I ever could have been staying with her, I just hope she isn't slowly sending you into insanity for it.
> 
> p.s. If you ever did a summary post or recent updates I missed it (and I looked) but if not it would be very beneficial to many BSs who come here.


Bobert's story summary should be a sticky on TAM.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> It never happened to me (that I know of), so grains of salt.
> 
> No, I wouldn’t have an automatic response. It would depend on things like:
> 
> ...


I'd be really concerned by the number of cheaters in your wife's family, especially if they accept it as no big deal. Ho[efully, they disgust your wife so much she goes out of her way not to join their ranks. I don't wish the pain of betrayal on anyone, especially those with children who feel torn and trapped by their commitments. 

The flaw in your logic trying to determine the "degree of cheating" though is that once someone has lied to you to that extent and/or gaslit you, everything out of their mouth is suspect. So, how do you determine the truth? 

Anyway, good luck to you, I hope you never have to discover the reality of that.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> It would depend on things like:
> 
> 
> How long it went on
> ...


That's a good list. Although I'd say "_why_" is kind of an imponderable question. 

I'd add

How is she in talking about it? "_Let's just move on_" or what response do you get?


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> That's a good list. Although I'd say "_why_" is kind of an imponderable question.
> 
> I'd add
> 
> How is she in talking about it? "_Let's just move on_" or what response do you get?


The original list was long and is now being added to. I'm a simple man, here's my list:

Did she physically cheat? Then send her back to the street.
Did she emotionally cheat? She has one foot in the street.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

No. If I cheated on my wife, I would try to find it in my heart to forgive myself and not divorce.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Dictum Veritas said:


> The original list was long and is now being added to. I'm a simple man, here's my list:
> 
> Did she physically cheat? Then send her back to the street.
> Did she emotionally cheat? She has one foot in the street.


Cheating is cheating....either one, out to the street.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> Cheating is cheating....either one, out to the street.


Well, I agree to the out thing.
To the street? No, is too cruel.._.and too near_.
Why not to the OM/OW place?
While _not with me anymore_, they may leave riding to the bright horizon in the sunset and be happy after ever.
IMO they wouldn´t be doing a bad thing, _just doing it a bit late for my prefference_.

*Hi-Yo Silver!*


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Enigma32 said:


> No. If I cheated on my wife, I would try to find it in my heart to forgive myself and not divorce.


This feels like some Sahara dry humor, but the internet being what it is, I wonder if I missed your point?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I think this all boils down to the connections men and women have. Men are physical beings while women are emotional.
> of course, there are lines that blur all through that spectrum but as a general rule women seem to be most upset by the breaking of the emotional bond and men are pissed because "his **** was in her".


But at the same time, if my girl wants to even fantasize about another guys d*** in her, I am done. So emotional or physical and I am going Wrangler Man on her. FYI you can consider him Spaceghost's hard ass brother, you should read his story...it was freaking epic. The show horse rider(AP) and WMs woman were fired and blackballed from the circuit. WM nuked it all and moved to Europe and last I heard was training show horses, I assume jumping horses, in England.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> But at the same time, if my girl wants to even fantasize about another guys d*** in her, I am done. So emotional or physical and I am going Wrangler Man on her. FYI you can consider him Spaceghost's hard ass brother, you should read his story...it was freaking epic. The show horse rider(AP) and WMs woman were fired and blackballed from the circuit. WM nuked it all and moved to Europe and last I heard was training show horses, I assume jumping horses, in England.


I read it a good while back.
Some have posited that the story was concocted by a few different folks to increase traffic (if so it worked). True or not it was entertaining.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I read it a good while back.
> Some have posited that the story was concocted by a few different folks to increase traffic (if so it worked). True or not it was entertaining.


I was on there during that time and Spaceghost's time. Many people are not that hard core and could not believe someone could handle themselves that well. I could see it being real.


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## Tiddytok5 (8 mo ago)

Adultery is a red line for me and it's grounds for immediate divorce and separation for me.


There is no excusing it "once".


If I catch you, or constantly worrying to the point of stress, paranoia, making myself sick, feeling the need to "play" detective....



I'm gone regardless.


Chances are they're not going to stop, some perhaps will stop for a little bit then resume. If they were to actually stop, there's no trust or recovery ever again.


If you take that person back, 
It shows them that you have low self esteem and respect and will put up with anything ...


It also grants them permission to keep doing it, because there won't be any consequences.

They know that you're not leaving.



I can't stay in such dysfunction and chaos.


There are many people that know who they are marrying prior, and do so anyways...and alot have children by these people.


Just to have someone....Just to pretend for society..just to appease society...just to "belong"....just to try and use a person to fill their emptiness and missing voids...




Unfortunately, too many people let their partner's "respectfully" cheat. 



They feel "respected" as long as their cheating partners keep it on the "low" and secretive. 

As long as the partner has a "handle" and " control"of the situation.


Such a sad state and frame of mind to be in...


Me, I don't care about the longevity of the relationship, I don't care if we have conceived children together, I don't care about finances (there's always some organization or someplace somewhere that can help you get on your feet), etc...



I will leave.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> @bobert ,
> I followed your story from your first post, I was wondering what the update/summation was. Do you still believe it was her mental issues that 'caused' the affairs? As I told you before, You are stronger than I ever could have been staying with her, I just hope she isn't slowly sending you into insanity for it.
> 
> p.s. If you ever did a summary post or recent updates I missed it (and I looked) but if not it would be very beneficial to many BSs who come here.


Pretty sure I have already arrived at insanity.

I do think her issues were large factors in both of her affairs, but more the second one than the first. I can't really blame her for starting the first one, I guess. Continuing it, getting knocked up, lying, no excuse for that, but it starting shouldn't really be a surprise based on how I was acting. That's what she likes to stick to at least. 

I don't think I have said much on it in the past year, at least. Not really sure what I would say or that it would be beneficial to anyone. It's not like we're doing well or I finally threw in the towel. I'd like to lately, but too bad. 



Gabriel said:


> Bobert's story summary should be a sticky on TAM.


I'd prefer my story to cease to exist.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Define take her back. My wife and I are roommates at best. More often than not she is cursing me out and I am trying to find ways to make her stop. We have not been intimate in well over 10 years. I’m thinking if she had an affair, it might put her in a better mood. I know you say I should leave. But that I will never do. It’s just not an option in my mind.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Dave8686 said:


> It’s just not an option in my mind.


Of course, it´s your life, your right to choose.
If it were mine I would say it in other words.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Dave8686 said:


> Define take her back. My wife and I are roommates at best. More often than not she is cursing me out and I am trying to find ways to make her stop. We have not been intimate in well over 10 years. I’m thinking if she had an affair, it might put her in a better mood. I know you say I should leave. But that I will never do. It’s just not an option in my mind.


If you won't leave why complainant her. You are in a hell of your own creation.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Those marriages that have affairs where there is no divorce afterwards have 3 states.

Some marriages never heal, some go back to the way they were before the PA
and some become better then before.

Those marriages that do not have affairs have 3 states.

Some marriages lose their way, some find their way back, and some become better
then when they first started.

Everyone has their reasons to marry and reasons to divorce or stay married. 
This is not a black and white matter. There are many things that they
base their decision on which course to take.

Everyone needs to make the decision that is the best one for themself.


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## InLimbo50 (3 mo ago)

SCDad01 said:


> So sorry that happened to you. Being shocked is very common. Did you confront him yet?


We are in counseling right now, that's where he admitted it. My husband claims he loves me and he's in love with me, but I don't believe it. I don't believe that you CAN be truly in love with someone and also cheat on them.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

InLimbo50 said:


> We are in counseling right now, that's where he admitted it. My husband claims he loves me and he's in love with me, but I don't believe it. I don't believe that you CAN be truly in love with someone and also cheat on them.


I agree with this statement. I don’t think it’s possible to truly love someone and betray them.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

For me even without having sex she would be out because if I lost trust in her the marriage is over , we can talk about anything everything is open between us we just never thought of any reason to lock a phone and we don't have any passwords on any sites , so with that much openness if there was any type of affair even without it getting to sex it would be like a knife in my heart , 
And I have often advised posters here the same as I often say once the other half's heart is gone to another it is time to file


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> For me even without having sex she would be out because if I lost trust in her the marriage is over , we can talk about anything everything is open between us we just never thought of any reason to lock a phone and we don't have any passwords on any sites , so with that much openness if there was any type of affair even without it getting to sex it would be like a knife in my heart ,
> And I have often advised posters here the same as I often say once the other half's heart is gone to another it is time to file


I would say it is time to file regardless of whether someone's s heart has gone to another, if there is any form of cheating. It need not be some deeply passionate affair where the cheater feels love for the affair partner. A mere dalliance is enough to break trust forever.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Cheating always equaled divorce for me. My first wife cheated on me within the first year of our marriage. I was in a lawyers office the very next day. I filed, kicked her out and never spoke to her again. We had no kids so there was no point in trying to save anything.

My second marriage was a different. We were married for 16 years and have three children. I was absolutely blindsided by her betrayal especially since she has been reassuring me for so many years that our marriage is great. I found it hard to believe that she was cheating. I thought it was so out of character for her. This time, my first instinct was actually to try to save our marriage. I found it hard to destroy the wonderful life and family we had made. Even though she’s the one who did the actual destruction, I would just be burying the corpse. It soon became obvious that she was not putting in the effort I needed and was devoid of any true remorse. She was still lying, denying, gaslighting, and stonewalling. She didn’t leave me any choice. I knew I could never trust her again. 

What made it more difficult was I knew if I divorced her, I would be alone for the rest of my life. I’ve only loved two women in my life and both of them betrayed me. There was no way I would could bring myself to try that again, especially at my age. 

Knowing this, I still divorced her. She was shocked when I dropped the divorce papers on her lap. She dragged out the process as long as she could. I actually had to kick her out after D was final. I haven’t spoken to her since. 

So for me, cheating is a deal breaker. Am I lonely? Yes, sometimes. But it beats staying with someone who has no honesty or integrity. My only regret was not filling immediately like I did the first time.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> If @Emerging Buddhist were to commit adultery, it would be so wildly out of his character that my first thought would be that there's something medically wrong--like DIRELY wrong--like a stroke or something.
> 
> That being said, we are all capable of being fooled, being deceived or being in strong denial, so as often as I've heard people say "Oh s/he's not that type" or "This so isn't like him/her" or "That would never happen to us"...yes, it DOES happen to us!! But being the age we are and knowing what we know, we make an effort in our marriage now, while things are good, to keep them good and stay connected and encourage tough honesty, etc.
> 
> ...


I agree... I would think I'd stroked out too.

An affair is being willing to live a deliberate lie, and if one believes that they can attain and sustain such with a healthy mind, one is sure find more emptiness than reward.

I don't think we are all capable of being fooled, deceived, or in strong denial because we really aren't deceiving anyone even if we make the mistake of believing so. I've always said that affairs come from not loving ourselves enough and when whatever desire is pulling us takes precedence, we walk straight into the arms of suffering, and it is crazy how strong it can be to the point where one is not willing to see it for the damage it causes.

An affair may be desire run amok, but the intentional side of that is made in choice… nothing is accidental.

Until a person who has given in to their desire can understand exactly why they made the choices they have/had, to lose so many valuable things in themselves, I'm not sure they can ask another to forgive the poor decisions that were made until that understanding has taken root.

The cause and effect of course mean such behaviors can lose more than one would wish... but if a soul has intent to learn and humble themselves, do the work that is necessary so that such desire is never again threatening for the love and respect one needs to share within and with others, then I believe the relationship can find redemption and healthy love again.

Love in a relationship should not be fickle, it either needs to be present and intentional in the right effort, or let go... no "pick me dance" here either.

A red line we set for ourselves.

Neither of us are “sharers” where it comes to our relationship and we both know that without compromise so there is little guesswork in our marriage. We have a simple boundary we adhere to, do not lie, cheat or steal either physically, emotionally, or financially.

In that, honoring and respecting ourselves and our partner comes easy in words and actions from our minds, hearts, and deeds.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back? I would certainly forgive because I understand how forgiveness works to my benefit, and doesn’t make me desire or trust someone again. I would then get a lawyer and file for divorce. I don’t need or want to hear the “reasons” or excuses for adultery.
> 
> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?





SCDad01 said:


> If you spouse committed adultery, would you take him/her back?
> 
> Or if this has happened to you, what did you do?


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

WasDecimated said:


> Cheating always equaled divorce for me. My first wife cheated on me within the first year of our marriage. I was in a lawyers office the very next day. I filed, kicked her out and never spoke to her again. We had no kids so there was no point in trying to save anything.
> 
> My second marriage was a different. We were married for 16 years and have three children. I was absolutely blindsided by her betrayal especially since she has been reassuring me for so many years that our marriage is great. I found it hard to believe that she was cheating. I thought it was so out of character for her. This time, my first instinct was actually to try to save our marriage. I found it hard to destroy the wonderful life and family we had made. Even though she’s the one who did the actual destruction, I would just be burying the corpse. It soon became obvious that she was not putting in the effort I needed and was devoid of any true remorse. She was still lying, denying, gaslighting, and stonewalling. She didn’t leave me any choice. I knew I could never trust her again.
> 
> ...


Good job, it is better to be lonely and content than married and miserable.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I suspect this is closer to reality for me as well. In my mind it is a hard line, but never is a strong word.


I just couldn’t desire a person that I thought of as a *****, and I couldn’t trust a ***** either.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Dictum Veritas said:


> You are far more forgiving than I am. If she could get a time-machine and un-F the guy I'd still kick her to the curb because the other time-line had happened. I really hate the adulterous with a passion on par with murderers because they are murderers of the soul.
> 
> Do you know I used to be the guy who had everyone in the room in stitches, laughing? Well, adultery killed that humorous spirit I had. I miss that carefree universally beloved guy, but an adulteress killed him more than 20 years ago and he never came back.


Honestly, in many threads your pain comes through. 

It seems to me like you've never really healed.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Honestly, in many threads your pain comes through.
> 
> It seems to me like you've never really healed.


Who ever really does? That's why I say adultery is worse than murder.


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