# Think I need some perspective



## travelingrl (May 1, 2012)

My husband of 3 years and I are both in our 50s. I'm usually only home on weekends, which makes it difficult to feel connected to him; we talk on the phone nightly but when home on weekends we don't have any mutual interests. He proposes a date night on occasion, but it's always up to me to plan where we go to eat and what movie we rent. I think he feels that by proposing the date night, I'm going to somehow get turned on by this and want sex. 

I have literally no libido/drive/desire, never think about sex, don't miss it. I know this is not unusual in postmenopausal women, also understand this doesn't happen to every woman, but are more than a few of us out there. I do love my husband and want him to be happy. I am capable of being aroused and having orgasm, but need some romance/foreplay/affection, just something that makes me feel desired. He complains about "not getting any" but doesn't seem to hear me when I tell him what I need. 

I get that he has needs and and I'm not meeting them, but what can I do to get him to understand that if he can make even a minimal effort to do what I need, he gets what he needs? The date nights are nice, the fact that he cooks dinner (mainly because he likes the way he cooks better than the way I cook) is great, but these things don't turn me on. Some women feel loved and aroused by having nice things done for them; I need affection and physical attention - friendly hugs and quick pecks goodnight don't do it. 

After one of our last lovemaking sessions, he made a comment and I said something to the effect that "for someone who says he wants something so much, he's not willing to do much to get it". I was a single mom for many years and learned that in life if you want or need something badly, you figure out a way to go about getting it. When someone tells you what you need to do to achieve/acquire it, you do it. 

Some of the posts I've read here make me wonder if I'm way off base in expressing what I need. It seems like many people feel that sex in a marriage is a right, an expectation and that if one partner isn't putting out (usually the wife) the other partner has a right to be mad or even consider leaving. It's not like he's asking and I'm denying him anything - he just seems to want me to initiate when I want sex. I think he understands that I never want it, don't think about, but he still waits for me to initiate something, still complaining about not getting any. I offer him BJs and he enjoys them, but seems to think that it has to lead to intercourse for me. 

Am I naive or missing something?


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

This is how I read it.... It sounds like he is trying. 

He wants you to plan date nite, because then it will be what YOU want. He wants you to initiate.... maybe because he doesn't want to pressure you, or he doesn't want you to think he's only about sex (even tho he really wants it). He wants bj's to lead to intercourse, maybe because he doesn't want you to be "left out"...or maybe because he really, really likes intercourse.

Sooooooo.... what can you do? I can think of a few things...that might make you two meet more toward the middle.

1. Get him to take turns setting up dates... takes the pressure off you, and is more 50/50, more partnershipish....and yes, that's a word. (it's also a way of finding things that you might share more as opposed to each doing your own thing)

2. When it's your turn to set up a date...make it a romantic one. Dancing, sunset dinner at an outdoor cafe', a sex toy party, partner massages, etc.... maybe it would help you to get in the mood?

3. Decorate the bedroom all sexy, or what your version of sexy is. Make it conducive to "intimacy"...not just sex... (to me they kinda just go together). 

4. Look into "tantric sex"... it's more about touching and feeling, but still very sexy and romantic, and can go as far as intercourse or not.... but still very intimate. Get him to look into it with you.... go all out with the mood music, candles, etc...

5. Make a deal with yourself to let one weekend nite be "sexy nite"... dress sexy, BE sexy, HAVE sex with your husband. Do what you need to do to make it feel good for you, extra lube, extra toys, etc.... he is going to like it if you get into it. (It might be awkward at first, doing new sexy things....but if you get there mentally maybe that will help do the trick for you?)

I think all of that means.... YOU have a problem which means YOU have to do something...and doing things that kick start his sexiness, will make him happy and loving and wanting to please you and more open to anything that WILL please you.... win, win, right?

*I am 49, H 55 married almost 2 years, together 7... and having awesome sex ....every nite. What is this menopause thing you speak of???


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You've been married 3 years. You rarely see each other. Only on weekends. You don't do things together. You don't desire sex. I'm confused. Why did you get married?

Also I'm curious, did your desire fade once the wedding cake was eaten? That is, did you seem to have desire before you married him?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Hi Travelin' Girl:

I am going to assume, based on your comments, you have communicated clearly what you would like to have from him. That being so, I think it's possible he does not see enough potential return to make it worth the effort you want.

First, you admit you have suffered a significant drop in libido since reaching menopause. Have you worked to overcome part of this drop on your own? Or, have you told him that he will simply have to try harder to get you to want it? If you go straight off of what you need to feel in the mood, maybe he feels he is paying the price for something he did not cause?

Then, you mention that you are not home during the week. So, who maintains the home while you are away? Presumably your husband does. Guys like to be appreciated for the necessary things they do to support the home. Just like women will (rightfully) note they want to be recognized for keeping up with the kids and such, men want to be recognized for doing the dirty chores, bringing home a check, or (in this case) making it possible for you to have a maintained home to which you can return. Do you tell and show him how much you appreciate being able to come home and take a load off?

Also, you want to make sure your sexual provision matches what he wants, and that you provide consistently. When you say that he is not willing to work hard for what he wants, you must make sure you are actually willing to provide what he wants (not necessarily what you feel like providing or what you feel should satisfy him).

On this last point, my ex was bad about this, so I know how demotivating it is. She would say "if you would do XYZ I would be more in the mood". In reality she would want things done to a high level of quality, but would provide "meh" sex in return. And, that assumes she followed through at all; often she would accept service then find some excuse to not reciprocate.

So, in short, make sure your actions reflect a mindset that sex is part of the commitment to your H and the relationship, not some bonus to be doled out for a job well done on his part. Ideally, you and your H should be meeting each others' needs simultaneously (so, why wait to serve him AFTER you are all satisfied? why put such a premium on your sexuality over his wants and needs?). At a minimum, he needs to be reassured through your thoughts and actions that if he does what you want how you want it, you will do what he wants how he wants it.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

We are younger than you, but my wife is going through menopause now. Throughout our marriage my wife has had low sex drive (she would frankly be happy with sex 4-6 times a year). So I can relate to your situation.

A couple of things we've learned over the years (and some things more recently) is to slow down leading up to sex. You mention wanting to be touched, my wife is exactly the same way. She needs that to be really in the mood. We make a point of making foreplay just a wonderful and gentle ramp up to intercourse.

My wife makes a point to clear her mind of anything and everything else about 20-30 minutes prior to foreplay. That helps her tremendously to stay "in the moment". That is to stay focused on me and on making love to each other.

When we have time (we have 4 kids, so this tends to only happen after they are in bed or if we have time in the afternoon). We often times take our time undressing each other. We give each other massages, and I spend a lot of time just gently caressing her (which I love to do anyway). I just take my time and enjoy her and this lets our mutual desire increase.

I almost always perform oral sex on her (and she on me). We just take this slow and easy... this isn't a race to see how soon we can penetrate. This is us savoring each other's company.

I think of it like a fine meal at a restaurant. You don't just choke down the food as fast as you possibly can. Good grief, what a waste. No you enjoy the surroundings. You take your time sipping a fine drink (caressing and kissing). When your food arrives you take your time to smell it, to take in the beauty of how it's served (observe and just enjoy your spouses body and how beautiful they are). Then you taste, but just a small bite sampling a little bit of everything. Letting the flavor of each piece sit in your mouth savoring it (oral sex and more caressing/kissing, just with more passion and energy). Then you enjoy the meal (I'll let you figure out what that represents). 

Seems like your husband needs to think of sex like a fine meal (like he knows how to cook, man you are lucky I wish I could cook well). He needs to slow down and enjoy it, so that you can both enjoy it to the utmost. Heck you only are together on the weekends, make the absolute most of those precious times together.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

travelingrl said:


> I get that he has needs and and I'm not meeting them, but what can I do to get him to understand that if he can make even a minimal effort to do what I need, he gets what he needs? The date nights are nice, the fact that he cooks dinner (mainly because he likes the way he cooks better than the way I cook) is great, but these things don't turn me on. Some women feel loved and aroused by having nice things done for them; I need affection and physical attention - friendly hugs and quick pecks goodnight don't do it.


Get the books, "The 5 Love Languages" and "His Needs, Her Needs" to better understand what you each want from each other. As you've said, your husband is working hard. He's just doing the wrong thing. If you can each sit down and work through those books, you'll better understand how to meet each other's needs.



travelingrl said:


> Some of the posts I've read here make me wonder if I'm way off base in expressing what I need. It seems like many people feel that sex in a marriage is a right, an expectation and that if one partner isn't putting out (usually the wife) the other partner has a right to be mad or even consider leaving.


What we're saying is that both spouses have the right to have their needs met. And, both spouses have the obligation to meet the other's needs. So, you do have an obligation to have sex with your husband. But, your husband has the obligation to romance you the way you need for him to. The negative posts you usually see are because a wife will argue that her husband is doing everything she wants, but she just isn't interested in meeting his sexual needs. That's not OK.

The books I mentioned above will help you effectively communicate what you need. And they will help your husband understand it. Many women will say, "I need romance." But many men have no idea what that means. To me, lingerie and candlelight naughty time is romantic. But if I tried to give my wife more of that, she wouldn't be interested.

I think of it like a dog. If you've had a dog, sometimes he will bring a dead carcass and leave it on the welcome mat. He does that as a sign of devotion to you. That's his "love language." Now, you would obviously prefer that he didn't do it. To you, it's disgusting. That's how married couples can be sometimes. We each try to give the other what we would like without understanding that it just doesn't do much for our spouse.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm young and not (yet) married, so I'd just like to know:

if you had known you would have low/no desire for sex with your husband before you were married, would you still get married? 

That is, would you (or did you) get married to someone you didn't physically want? 
Did you express to him before marriage your lack of desire for sex and lack of desire for sex with him?

Because a lack of a sex drive would be a dealbreaker for me going into a marriage. I don't want a mate who doesn't desire me in the same way I desire her. I'm probably not alone in this. 

What I'm getting at, I guess, is this:
if we're talking about if a partner has a "right" to sex with his/her spouse, we've already gone down a road I don't want to ever go down.
To me, it's a little like asking: "Does a person have a right to have a conversation with his/her spouse?" or "Does a person have a right to receive kind treatment from his/her spouse"

If my spouse didn't WANT to have a conversation with me, or didn't WANT to treat me kindly, I'd have no desire to be with them anyway.
Of course, I don't *always* want to talk to my SO; sometimes I want to be alone for a while. But, for the most part, I like talking to her and don't need X, Y, or Z condition met to do so. I just...want to.

If we have to divvy up obligations relating to stuff like this, it would call into question the whole relationship to me. And that's how I (young, unmarried, and high drive) see sex too.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

SoWhat said:


> If my spouse didn't WANT to have a conversation with me, or didn't WANT to treat me kindly, I'd have no desire to be with them anyway.
> Of course, I don't *always* want to talk to my SO; sometimes I want to be alone for a while. But, for the most part, I like talking to her and don't need X, Y, or Z condition met to do so. I just...want to.


And that's the rub. Unless you and your potential spouse have identical sex drives, then your sex life will be a compromise. And a man and woman with identical sex drives are very, very rare.

And even if the desired frequency were the same, which it won't be, you have to remember that women have responsive desire while men have spontaneous desire.

So, if you want sex spontaneously three times a week, and you are insisting that your wife must also want sex spontaneously three times a week, then you will never be married. Which is OK. The best you can hope for is a wife who understands your sex drive and loves you enough to take care of you without making it seem like a burden.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Honestly?

In my opinion only being home on the weekends in a sexless (or near it) marriage is the road to ruin.

Fixing it from long distance just isn`t something that`s going to happen no matter what you do.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> And that's the rub. Unless you and your potential spouse have identical sex drives, then your sex life will be a compromise. And a man and woman with identical sex drives are very, very rare.
> 
> 
> So, if you want sex spontaneously three times a week, and you are insisting that your wife must also want sex spontaneously three times a week, then you will never be married. Which is OK. The best you can hope for is a wife who understands your sex drive and loves you enough to take care of you without making it seem like a burden.



Oh, I wasn't trying to suggest that.
My S.O. really loves talking. She could have conversations with me ALL the time. 

I'm not as much into talking. Still love talking to her, but my desire for frequency isn't as great as hers. I prefer quality over quantity in this regards.

So there will be sometimes when I don't necessarily want to talk about how her/my day was, about the gossip at school, etc. But my desire for frequency of conversation is similar enough that there are times that we both really want to talk to each other. It's not identical, but it's close enough that we gel in that area. 

I wouldn't expect anyones sex drive to be identical to mine. 
But if they didn't _ever_ want to, or their desire for frequency was so different from mine that it seemed like never, it would be like if I only wanted to have a conversation with her once a month. 

If the desires are so vastly different, then there's going to be serious and constant friction. 

If I told my SO that I wanted to have a conversation with her once or twice a year, that I had lost my "conversation drive," etc, she'd rightly think there wasn't much reason to go on in the relationship. It'd be a dealbreaker, I suspect. 
Conversation is important to her; if something that vital to her sense of a relationship was lacking in me entirely or almost entirely, why go on? 


So, I guess I was just trying to get at communication going into it: how aware was the OP's husband was about her lack of sex drive going into the marriage. 

They've been married for 3 years. Had she lost her drive before that? Was it waning? Or has menopause happened during those three years? 

If it was gone before they were married, did she communicate that to him? "I don't desire you (or anyone) sexually." ? 

If I told my SO she can expect conversation with me only if she does X, Y, and Z, that she has no "right" to a conversation with me, and that if she really wants to talk to me once or twice, she needs to meet my sexual needs more often.... she'd leave me. Rightfully, I think.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

And so continues the saga of which came first....The chicken or the egg?

The issue here is that men connect physically. They need sex to make the emotional connection that women want.

Woman connect emotionally. They want that emotional connection BEFORE they want to have sex. 

Who will break this vicious cycle? Many men try and still get rejected often (but not always) and then begin to think "Why bother"?

"get him to understand that if he can make even a minimal effort to do what I need, he gets what he needs?" Hmmmm....sounds like another case of sexual hostage taking to me!

"I was a single mom for many years and learned that in life if you want or need something badly, you figure out a way to go about getting it. When someone tells you what you need to do to achieve/acquire it, you do it." While I really don't disagree with this, for a lot of men here, they try and try and then after rejection after rejection (with some successes thrown in there) they decide that banging their heads against the wall hurts too much so why continue to do it?

You also need to know that men also want to feel desired and pursued. While I would't expect you'd be the one to initiate all the time, how often do you initiate?


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## travelingrl (May 1, 2012)

I have read The 5 Languages of Love, found it very enlightening. I marked several areas that I thought would be helpful or at least interesting for him to read and tried to talk to him about it, but that went nowhere. 

The drop in libido wasn't instantaneous, occurred over a period of time. It really bugs me when people discount the very real, medically proven fact that some, not all, women experience a drop in hormones during menopause. It's not in my head, it's physical, and there's no little blue pill to cure it. 

My job requires that I travel - I like my job and it pays well, so quitting isn't really a solution. While he cooks, again because he prefers to eat what he makes over what I make, there's nothing in particular he does around the house while I'm gone - we have a homeowners association to do the yardwork and I pay for a cleaning lady to clean; when he cooks a meal, I clean up the kitchen afterward. We both work hard during the week and have a household system that works well for us, both get to come home and "take a load off". 

Because I love him, I guess I can totally forget about needing to get turned on, just dive into sex without any affection, little foreplay, and make him happy with our sex life, sounds like that's what many of you are suggesting. As long as I keep doing that, he's happy and he'll probably think that I'm fine with it, which sounds like a sure recipe for NEVER getting what I need, but I'm hearing that most of you think that's okay. I don't need candles, I don't need date nights, I don't need sexy lingerie, I don't need nice things done for me, I just need some physical affection. When I'm up to my elbows in greasy breakfast dishes, is saying "why don't you leave those dishes for later?" and then just going upstairs supposed be a turn on? Coming up behind me, putting arms around me and kissing me or kissing my neck, and saying "why dont you leave those dishes for later" - that would ensure that the dishes would wait. Is that a lot to ask? It's evidently too much ...

What I'm reading in most of the replies is basically suck it up, fake it, and have sex when he wants it, although I don't know when that is because he doesn't initiate anything, has told me to initiate it when I want it. So, just start it up a couple of times over the weekeneds - does that sound reasonable? 

(We tried some counseling but with both of us traveling for work and his seasonal hobby, can't find any time we can go together.)


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

That's not what I'M saying!

I'm saying that one of you has to start somewhere. Maybe the idea of you intiating a little more will lead to the emotional connection he needs. When he starts to feel that connection, that would be a good time to have an open communication about what you need too.

As I've quoted in the past a line from a female comediene "A man is like a linoleum floor. Lay him right and you can walk on him for 40 years"

You need to find time for some more counseling too. are there counselors in your area who have hours on Saturdays durin his off season (hobby wise)? Start looking now since it may take some time!


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

travelingrl said:


> What I'm reading in most of the replies is basically suck it up, fake it, and have sex when he wants it, although I don't know when that is because he doesn't initiate anything, has told me to initiate it when I want it. So, just start it up a couple of times over the weekeneds - does that sound reasonable?


Read my post again, that's not what I believe will work for either of you. You two need to find a way to reach and excite each other.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

My wife and I tried the 'this time its my turn to instigate, next time its yours'.
I went first, then it was the wifes turn to instigate. I waited, patiently for about 3 months then gave up waiting.

She saw it as her being let off the hook.


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