# Could you stay friends with a cheater if you found out about their affair?



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

My wife became good friends with a single mother that lives in the neighborhood a little over a year ago. They started hanging out at least once a week and it was good for my daughter as well because she became friends with the woman's daughter. I was happy my daughter had play dates because she has a difficult time making friends.

Well to make a long story short. Another woman who is really more of an acquaintance informed my wife that her new friend had an affair with her boss that resulted in the end of her marriage. Once my wife found this out she completely stopped hanging out with this woman.

This bothered me for two reasons. The first one is I am a wayward spouse, yet my wife stays married to me. So whats the big deal if she maintained the friendship with this woman? The other issue I have with it is that my daughter really doesn't have all that many friends and really misses her playmate.

I guess I am trying to understand here. Is it really a deal breaker for friendship if you find out a person was a cheater? Especially if you really have no direct knowledge of the actual adultery before you met the person? I honestly think my wife is over reacting. But....its up to her to choose her own friends.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Has she explained why she made this decision? Have you challenged her thinking on this?

Is she fearful of something?


----------



## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> My wife became good friends with a single mother that lives in the neighborhood a little over a year ago. They started hanging out at least once a week and it was good for my daughter as well because she became friends with the woman's daughter. I was happy my daughter had play dates because she has a difficult time making friends.
> 
> Well to make a long story short. Another woman who is really more of an acquaintance informed my wife that her new friend had an affair with her boss that resulted in the end of her marriage. Once my wife found this out she completely stopped hanging out with this woman.
> 
> ...


Can you explain your waywardness? Is it something you both have effectively dealt with? Is this the wife you cheated on or your previous affair partner.

I was going to say that she just did not want to invite people who would cheat but the fact that you cheated makes it different. Maybe it is triggering for her?

Cheating is a big deal so people will react strongly to it. The fact that you say "why is it a big deal" makes me suspect that you have rugswept in the past but I would like to hear your side of the story first.

Would I be friends with a cheater? Acquaintances and work partners. Friends? Not unless they were truly remorseful, understood and created healthy boundaries.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

jld said:


> Has she explained why she made this decision? Have you challenged her thinking on this?
> 
> Is she fearful of something?


I did challenge her a little, primarily because I didn't want my daughter to lose a friend. My wife compromised a bit. Said she might do play dates in the future but not at our house. Which kind of makes me think it could have something to do with me. However, I haven't noticed the woman behaving inappropriately around me at all. She is no threat to wife from that standpoint.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

One of my BFFs cheated on her husband and ruined her marriage. She'll always be one of my best friends. 

My mother doesn't like her, though!


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

VirgenTecate said:


> Can you explain your waywardness? Is it something you both have effectively dealt with? Is this the wife you cheated on or your previous affair partner.
> 
> I was going to say that she just did not want to invite people who would cheat but the fact that you cheated makes it different. Maybe it is triggering for her?
> 
> ...


I honestly hadn't thought of that angle at all. But that could be it. We haven't really dealt with it the way that most people advise is healthy. What we did fits what the folks on here would describe as rug sweeping. It honestly became kind of don't ask don't tell scenario. If she really wanted details though, I would tell her.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I did challenge her a little, primarily because I didn't want my daughter to lose a friend. My wife compromised a bit. Said she might do play dates in the future but not at our house. Which kind of makes me think it could have something to do with me. However, I haven't noticed the woman behaving inappropriately around me at all. She is no threat to wife from that standpoint.


That is what I was wondering, if she felt insecure in some way.


----------



## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> I honestly hadn't thought of that angle at all. But that could be it. We haven't really dealt with it the way that most people advise is healthy. What we did fits what the folks on here would describe as rug sweeping. It honestly became kind of don't ask don't tell scenario. If she really wanted details though, I would tell her.


Your wife probably doesn't feel very secure then. She probably feels that as long as you don't get in that situation again then you won't cheat. She hasn't emotionally felt the security that YOU have changed.

This is why this woman is so triggering to her. This woman could bring up the situation. 

You know that the situation won't make you cheat because you have changed. But your wife hasn't felt that.

She still is stuck in an earlier stage of reconciliation closer to when it happened because she probably bottled up some fear and hurt in order to save the marriage.


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> I did challenge her a little, primarily because I didn't want my daughter to lose a friend. My wife compromised a bit. Said she might do play dates in the future but not at our house. Which kind of makes me think it could have something to do with me. However, I haven't noticed the woman behaving inappropriately around me at all. She is no threat to wife from that standpoint.


Your questioning her decision to remove a cheater from her life is troubling. Seriously, why would she even want to risk bringing two people who have no boundaries together! That's a risk I'd never take. As for her staying with you, you've built a life together, have a family together. This woman is someone your wife owes nothing to. So tell me why you would encourage your wife to continue to hang around with someone she obviously doesn't respect or like. Because that type of thinking could be a big problem for your relationship and sounds like rug sweeping. 

I'm sorry your daughter may lose a friend, but this is another consequence to your cheating, your wife doesn't want to be around others who hurt those they love. I'm mean if she'll throw her family away and destroy another marriage, that's no quality fiend there. Or is it you worry others will remove you from their lives once they've found out you cheated. 

To sum all that up, you sound like your protecting another cheater from consequences of their infidelity. Start supporting your wife from the after effects of YOUR affair, support her decision to remove people she views as a threat or toxic from her life. 

How long ago was affair and how long was it, did she know the person?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oddly enough I had two friends who cheated.

Both of them are no longer close friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

If you cheated on your current W then I know exactly why she doesn't want to be friends with this woman:

She doesn't trust this woman to not go after you. She can't trust you to not say no to her if she should pursue you. After you cheat on someone, the entire dynamic of the relationship is FOREVER changed. Rarely, does it ever go back to the way it was. There will always be that small part of her mind that will not trust you. 

This woman (as well as yourself - sorry if this comes out harsh) have proven that you have little to no boundaries when it comes to the opposite sex. Even if you have worked on your boundaries, your W doesn't know what this woman really thinks or feels, and owes her nothing. 

Your W sounds like she doesn't want to risk your marriage for a friendship, which is completely understandable considering...I personally, wouldn't bring a known cheater into my house to hang out with my spouse, who has cheated. It just seems like a recipe for disaster. 

Your daughter can make other friends.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

always_hopefull said:


> Or is it you worry others will remove you from their lives once they've found out you cheated.


Yeah...that's part of it. I have quite a few friends that don't know about the things I've done. It never actually dawned on me that if they did know that I could lose them. As for the details about my past. I'll just say I made a lot of really bad choices and put myself in bad situations time and time again. I'd rather not talk about it though. I guess I was trying to understand why this woman was unfriended by my wife. Your explanations make a lot of sense.


----------



## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> Yeah...that's part of it. I have quite a few friends that don't know about the things I've done. It never actually dawned on me that if they did know that I could lose them. As for the details about my past. I'll just say I made a lot of really bad choices and put myself in bad situations time and time again. * I'd rather not talk about it though*. I guess I was trying to understand why this woman was unfriended by my wife. Your explanations make a lot of sense.


I can understand why you wouldn't want to share it with strangers

But if I was your wife and that was how it was. It would make me unsure of where you stood on your changes and where you stand now. It would tell me that I was blocked out from a part of your life.

I am not trying to be rude, but how did you not see this from your wife's perspective? It's just an obvious observation to be made why she would feel uncomfortable.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

VirgenTecate said:


> I am not trying to be rude, but how did you not see this from your wife's perspective? It's just an obvious observation to be made why she would feel uncomfortable.


It really wasn't obvious to me. Mainly because of how we live our lives, she really has never seemed bothered by things. I don't really see this event as a painful trigger for my wife. I think she just doesn't like home wreckers. Which is understandable. 

But if you were already friends with the person, I guess I assumed that my wife would see that there was more to this woman than just her past mistake. I'm not at all pushing my wife to stay friends with this woman. I was just surprised at how quickly she was dropped.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> I did challenge her a little, primarily because I didn't want my daughter to lose a friend. My wife compromised a bit. * Said she might do play dates in the future but not at our house. Which kind of makes me think it could have something to do with me. * However, I haven't noticed the woman behaving inappropriately around me at all. She is no threat to wife from that standpoint.


I can see why she would not want to bring a new woman willing to cheat around her husband who is willing to cheat. It may also be a big hint that your affair has not been resolved in her mind and you have not earned back her trust or confidence.

Personally, I prefer to limit my friendships to people who are ethical and trustworthy. I dropped a close friend who told me about being an affair partner when I was confiding that my ex was cheating on me. This is not the sort of person I need in my life!

If a cheater is willing to do that to their family and spouse, whom they vowed to protect and love above all else, I don't think they would have much compunction about hurting a mere friend.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

For me to truly answer how I would feel, I would say disturbed at the very best. This is without rug sweeping and reconciling in a manner that is correct. I will tell you this, because we are reconciling we didn't tell anyone of my wife's affair. We each decided to tell one person we trust so that each of us had someone to talk too. My wife told her cousin, who ironically separated from her husband the following week, they are now divorced. I told my sister, who then informed md she was cheating on her husband for the last fourteen years. I guess if it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all!

Now, when my sister let that bomb drop, I had a complete meltdown. I thought my wife had an ally, my wife and sister would be against me, all sorts of stupid thoughts. I could feel my stomach flip, anger invading my mind, disbelief my own sister would cheat. So when your wife found out many emotions flooded her mind, she panicked, she didn't feel safe. With you questioning her about pulling back had to hurt, you may not understand, but once you've been cheated on, you think it will happen again. Doesn't mean it will, but with everything you feel, you feel they will either leave or cheat again. 

What has now been presented to you should make you on edge. It's clear that rug sweeping isn't working with your wife. I can tell you she's scared, more scared that you want this lady as friends, your wife is feeling anything but safe. In reconciliation you need to do the hard work, seems you may not have. Your wife's last choice is putting you and this other lady together, if you think rationally it doesn't make complete sense. But it does once you've been cheated on. 

Take this for what it's worth, but I would get into MC, I would sever contact with her, and no I wouldn't be friends. I didn't speak with my sister either until a poster here said that my sister was reaching out to me as a brother. I slowly began to talk to her but had her begin divorce proceedings. 

Cbout you? About what you may face by your friends? Now you say that nothing will happen, how can you say this won't happen? I ask this because you have rug swept. I say go reassure your wife that you will not get involved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

You could use this situation to try to rectify things with your wife. It's obvious that your previous philandering does indeed bother her and it's making her feel insecure about you and the marriage. If allowed to fester these feelings could very well evolve into feelings of resentment that could jeopardize your marriage.


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> Yeah...that's part of it. I have quite a few friends that don't know about the things I've done. It never actually dawned on me that if they did know that I could lose them. As for the details about my past. I'll just say I made a lot of really bad choices and put myself in bad situations time and time again. I'd rather not talk about it though. I guess I was trying to understand why this woman was unfriended by my wife. Your explanations make a lot of sense.


So you've only just started to realize the extent of the repercussions affairs cause. So what are you going to do, by your own admission you've made numerous bad choices and never dealt with anything. So how are you going to fix yourself, repair your marriage? Hold yourself accountable? Prevent the same "choices" from reoccurring?

I know you don't want to discuss your past, but only want to understand your wife avoiding other cheaters. However, the reality is your past effects her present and YOU need to fix yourself. So how are you going to support your wife in removing this woman from her life?

You also need to know you may still get divorced later, by putting your concern for another cheater over your wife, she, could get tired of being your second concern and leave you. You, by your actions over this, are showing her feelings matter less to you than a stranger's. You are also showing your self preservation is greater than your respect for your wife. You my friend are not in R with your wife, but are in a false R.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Probably not.

And RH, I noted that you referred to yourself as a wayward instead of a _former_ wayward.

Are you still cheating?


----------



## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I used to extensively travel with the Chairman of the corporation I work for. I had become good friends with his girlfriend who was the office manager. The problem was that he cheated on her every time we traveled. He knew that I disapproved so he stopped letting me stay in the same hotel as him. 

Funny thing is that I was living with my wife and our girlfriend in a non monogamous poly triad so I had no problem with sex with others. My problem was breaking your word. When I agreed to be monogamous, I was monogamous even though my girlfriend was not. For me it is not a moral issues about extramarital sex, it is all about one's word which reflects one's character.

I have in the past broke off contact with every friend who boasted about his cheating. Despite my poly marriage, all of our friends are monogamous married couples who do not cheat or at least appear to never have cheated.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think at the root of it is that your wife doesn't trust you. You said yourself that you rugswept so your wife feels under the right circumstances you'd do it again.

And she knows this woman doesn't respect marital vows.

Would you cheat again given the right circumstances?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

always_hopefull said:


> Or is it you worry others will remove you from their lives once they've found out you cheated.


If this is the case, that you would lose a friend that found out you are a former wayward, then I would encourage you to let them go.

You can't change the past. And if they cannot understand, and not hold it against you, then you are both better off parting ways.


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Personally I wouldn't want my wife hanging with a "former" adulteress. She could turn out to be poisonous influence on your wife. 

As for your wife, she is sensitive to a woman that would sleep with another man while married, especially having a FWH. Instead of seeing her being insensitive toward the plight of former waywards, look into ways at making her more confident in your marriage. I'd bet she must have triggered when she heard the news.


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Thirty years ago I would have said yes, I could still stay friends with that person. Today, I couldn't do it under any circumstances. You are who you associate with, they are a reflection on you and your values.


----------



## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

jsmart said:


> Personally I wouldn't want my wife hanging with a "former" adulteress. She could turn out to be poisonous influence on your wife.
> 
> As for your wife, she is sensitive to a woman that would sleep with another man while married, especially having a FWH. Instead of seeing her being insensitive toward the plight of former waywards, look into ways at making her more confident in your marriage. I'd bet she must have triggered when she heard the news.


This to me is the strangest part of all this, that you empathized more with the wayward and projected your feelings of rejection onto the scenario than empathizing with your wife and being happy that she is serious about setting boundaries.

That is why I asked you that question earlier. Can you not see that that is not the most logical way of viewing this situation? Logically your wife would come first.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Without reading any replies, my first thought is your wife doesn't want to bring a woman that has no boundaries when it comes to marriage around her own husband.


----------



## 'CuseGal (Feb 5, 2015)

From a totally different viewpoint, I hope your wife made sure this particular bit of malicious gossip was true before she cut the other woman out of her life. I lost several friends because someone started gossip, in our church no less, that my marriage had ended because I was cheating on my husband. Ironic considering he was a serial cheater and sex addict who has probably slept with over 100 women over the course of his life, and I've never slept with anyone other than him my entire life even since our split almost 10 years ago now.

However, assuming the gossip IS true, I totally understand your wife's point of view. My husband had NO boundaries at all and I wouldn't have knowingly wanted him around a woman who obviously had a problem with boundaries as well.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

No, I would not remain "friends."

I know a woman whose current marriage started as an affair. This woman is also friends with OW, and knows that OW is a wh*re and almost ruined my M. I didn't learn about all that until after we had gotten to know each other better. Now that I know about the adultery and her continued friendship with OW, I have moved the friendship to a cordial acquaintanceship. Whenever I see her, I keep the socializing to a minimum, do not sit next to her, and if she sits next to me I find a reason to move.

Unfortunately, she and her children have joined an activity that my children and I are also involved in. I'll just keep up my boundaries. That woman is a calamity waiting to happen anyway, and I would rather not be associated with her even if she weren't a adulteress, or friend of OW.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm friends with someone that had an affair with a married man, (she's a widow). She finally came out of it and is now so disgusted with herself, remorseful and embarrassed. I have no plans to sever the friendship.


----------



## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

I can imagine staying friends with one or two people if they cheated. But that's only because they have been friends for over twenty years. But anyone...no way. Not a chance.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Let's just say that the vast majority of married folks, preemptively, set far better marital boundaries than others; and while adhering to that noble and erstwhile belief, they like to "hang" and associate with folks of like social mores!

You, my friend, should feel rather fortunate that your W didn't kick you straight to the curb at the very first suspicion of your act of infidelity against her! Add to that the sad, but admirable fact, that your W elected to stay with you for apparent reconciliatory reasons.

R is, in no way, a process of guaranteed success! While sometimes successful, it can oftentimes veer Southward into second thoughts, about the process itself if there are no overt signs that the relationship, itself, has promoted marital remediation!

Questioning her motives in light of this other woman's chosen lack of boundaries and morality is not, in any way, yours to even query! After what you have done, you should feel totally fortunate that you still have a W to come home to at the end of the day!

For what it is worth, there's a sheer host of guys, who like you, were left high and dry, twiddling their thumbs, or possibly other appendages, leering at their copies of their divorce decrees and child support orders!

All that I can say is to "Cease and desist!" ~ this decision is hers and hers alone! You lost your right to do so when you covertly and self-servingly lost your drawers off in another woman's abode!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Probably not.
> 
> And RH, I noted that you referred to yourself as a wayward instead of a _former_ wayward.
> 
> Are you still cheating?


Thank you for your honesty. No, I'm not cheating anymore. I'm disgusted with what I have done. I don't believe that its something I will do again. But admittedly I have failed before. The last time was really wreck-less and to be honest it scared me.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Thank you for your honesty. No, I'm not cheating anymore. I'm disgusted with what I have done. I don't believe that its something I will do again. But admittedly I have failed before. The last time was really wreck-less and to be honest it scared me.




While your answer is good, if I were your spouse I wouldn't feel very safe. The way I perceived this is, I don't want to cheat, I don't like my actions, but if the right situation comes along.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I do sense some genuine remorse from you, @ReformedHubby!

But the person that you need to exhibit that remorse to is the lady that you cheated on! She needs to know all of the answers of who, what, where, when, and why ~ without equivocation, reservation, or secret evasion of mind! You cannot take nor rely on the 5th Amendment to get you out of this sordid mess that you so eloquently helped to create!

And please note that R is not, in any way, guaranteed to succeed; but you must be ready to see it fail, for it often does!

Your W will want assurances that it will never ever happen again! What can you promise her? Are those promises worth the breath and the airwaves that they are uttered on?

If she agrees to even a short-term R, then you need to get a enrolled in full time MC! The ball is now in your W's court! As the betrayed, where does she want to take this that would guarantee her future security!

Only you can answer that ~ but please don't BS her ~ for to do so would only be BS'ing yourself! You've got your work cut out for you! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> Thank you for your honesty. No, I'm not cheating anymore. I'm disgusted with what I have done. I don't believe that its something I will do again. But admittedly I have failed before. The last time was really wreck-less and to be honest it scared me.


Does your wife know about "all" your affairs?


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> My wife became good friends with a single mother that lives in the neighborhood a little over a year ago. They started hanging out at least once a week and it was good for my daughter as well because she became friends with the woman's daughter. I was happy my daughter had play dates because she has a difficult time making friends.
> 
> *Well to make a long story short. Another woman who is really more of an acquaintance informed my wife that her new friend had an affair with her boss that resulted in the end of her marriage. Once my wife found this out she completely stopped hanging out with this woman.
> *
> ...


Did your wife confirm that the gossip was true? 

She has every right to decide with whom she chooses to be friends but I wouldn't trust the word of a gossip. I would get the truth straight from the source, the friend, before making such a drastic decision.

One thing I would absolutely do is remove the gossip monger from my social circle. See what I've learned about these types is that if they talk sh!t about someone else to you, then you better believe they'll talk sh!t about you to others.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

There are a number of reasons why she may have chosen to do this

1. show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are
2. your wife has higher moral standards and is not comfortable being with her
3. we often become like our friends, you should be thankful your wife does not want to associate with her
4. It triggers your affair for you wife


It looks like you have learned little from your own affair when you even have to ask this question!


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Assuming you want varying opinions from different members, I'd like to give mine.

I have read some of your posts and know you have done the best you can to understand both sides of infidelity and be kind to all. I did not read all posts. Here is what I am guessing from the op.

You may have a tendency to believe that if you are forgiven for your indiscretions, it means the same as acceptance. In a sense, it is acceptance, but I don't think it is acceptance that it's okay. I think it's more acceptance of who you are and that vigilance from now on is important. I think it's acceptance that it might happen again, but that you are remorseful and it's unlikely. I think it's acceptance that your spouse had some part in your unhappiness or whatever led you to forget or not care about your commitments and monogamy within your marriage.

What I don't think it is, is an acceptance of the infidelity itself and a forgive and forget acceptance. I think, if it were that, she would have affairs on a regular basis, because she accepts that affairs are normal and natural as a part of life. 

I think the issue is not your wife, but that you misunderstand the meaning of forgiveness as she see's it. You and your wife need to get to counseling and talk more openly about what these things mean to you and her. They are two different things. I think it's very important for your marriage, to understand each other, or at least know where each of you stands on this issue. It seems to me you don't at present. You seem like you are assuming some things that may not be true.

Again, just a guess, but worth consideration.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Why don't you ask your wife what the difference is between you and the friend?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I was friends with a married couple. 

When she became pregnant he decided to have a one night stand with her lesbian best friend. 

He then fell for the friend and left his wife. 

Lesbian best friend dumped her long time female partner to move in with him.

They got a divorce.

When she was in a maternity hospital she was befriended by abother patient and she started an affair with the husband of her new friend.

Our friendship was never on quite the same level after that. Though I am still grateful for the counselling she gave me after I confessed my stupid drunken RA to her. 

Her advice to confess all to my wife was wise and saved my marriage. She was a psychologist but had never practiced outside of some work placement situations. Her PhD was in date rape drugs and their long term psychological impact on victims. It was her opinion that OW had dropped something in at least one of my drinks based on my recollections of that evening. 

Incidentally, my wife discovered -via a mutual friend- that my friend was in love with me and thought I would make an excellent father for her twin boys. Which was exactly why OW had persued me.

Good Grief!  
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Your wife is triggering because of the damage done to her by your affair.

It is a quick trip for her to envision the pain her new friend delivered to her husband and bosses family as well.

I will be friends with reformed cheaters.

I am a cold man towards anyone currently or recently cheating.

One of my closest friends is a former wayward.

Encourage your wife to talk to you about it and be prepared for some hostile emotions to erupt.

It would possibly be good for her to talk with her friend about it and share her own story.

People can and do change, thank God!

This woman might have become a disgusting person when she cheated but maybe she learned and changed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't believe that its something I will do again. But admittedly I have failed before. The last time was really wreck-less and to be honest it scared me.


So you're not sure because you can't control your impulses. Your wife knows this and doesn't feel safe with you. She doesn't completely trust you. I think you'll just have to accept this. That's why she ditched her new friend. It's really quite simple.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Omego said:


> So you're not sure because you can't control your impulses. Your wife knows this and doesn't feel safe with you. She doesn't completely trust you. I think you'll just have to accept this. That's why she ditched her new friend. It's really quite simple.


Unless the ability to cheat meant that there were flaws in her character that make her NOT ideal friend material?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Unless the ability to cheat meant that there were flaws in her character that make her NOT ideal friend material?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure, but she stayed with her H who's also a cheater. I agree with those who think she's triggering. Also, if this woman is attractive, maybe she sees her as a threat.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Omego said:


> Sure, but she stayed with her H who's also a cheater. I agree with those who think she's triggering. Also, if this woman is attractive, maybe she sees her as a threat.


If she will steal a husband what else might she steal?

If she has problems recognising one set of boundaries will she have problems recognising other sets of boundaries?

She might be skin beautiful but soul ugly. Some people are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

ReformedHubby said:


> I did challenge her a little, primarily because I didn't want my daughter to lose a friend. My wife compromised a bit. Said she might do play dates in the future but not at our house. Which kind of makes me think it could have something to do with me. However, I haven't noticed the woman behaving inappropriately around me at all. She is no threat to wife from that standpoint.



your probably suggesting that your wife is somehow Insecure?

you did have an Affair right?

would not she remind her every-time they meet about your infidelity?
Are you seriously pushing her to become friends with this wayward for the sake of a playmate for your daughter?

Do you lack "Empathy"?

Imagine everyday your wife meets this woman it reminds her of you and your infidelity.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

As you may have noticed from the weight of the evidence of reaction from female posters, your BW doesn't trust the two of you to be anywhere around one another. This seems obvious, and in your case, quite prudent.

She is judging the woman, to be sure, but fundamentally she is making a judgment about you and your marriage. I agree with the others that you need to do some work on your relationship.


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

alte Dame said:


> As you may have noticed from the weight of the evidence of reaction from female posters, your BW doesn't trust the two of you to be anywhere around one another. This seems obvious, and in your case, quite prudent.
> 
> She is judging the woman, to be sure, but fundamentally she is making a judgment about you and your marriage. I agree with the others that you need to do some work on your relationship.


The pain she experience from the betrayal has made her sensitive. How many BHs that R fairly successfully still have a nagging doubt that they should filed instead. She may have a little of that in her. With her stance, she's making a no tolerance statement.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Probably not.


I'd like to revise this a bit...

It depends on the friend and scenario involved.

If the friend in question happened to be a close friend, and he or she appeared to be remorseful, repentant, and committed to change, I'd probably do what I could to help in terms of offering advice, support, etc. If, however, he or she were unremorseful, unrepentant, etc, I'd likely shift support to his or her BS.

If, however, the friend in question happened to be someone w/ whom I wasn't very close, I might not bother. I might put in _some_ of the effort described above, but I'd probably dial it back considerably.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

drifting on said:


> While your answer is good, if I were your spouse I wouldn't feel very safe. The way I perceived this is, I don't want to cheat, I don't like my actions, but if the right situation comes along.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I should probably further explain my answer. Its not so much that I am looking for the right situation to come along. I certainly don't want to cheat again. But I'm not sure I trust myself to make a promise that it would never happen. I guess I have just seen and experienced too much to make that promise. Not just in my life, but others lives as well. I would actually be more worried about doing it again if I was emphatically stating that it will NEVER happen again. If I did that I couldn't be as guarded as I need to be.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> Did your wife confirm that the gossip was true?
> 
> She has every right to decide with whom she chooses to be friends but I wouldn't trust the word of a gossip. I would get the truth straight from the source, the friend, before making such a drastic decision.
> 
> One thing I would absolutely do is remove the gossip monger from my social circle. See what I've learned about these types is that if they talk sh!t about someone else to you, then you better believe they'll talk sh!t about you to others.


You actually bring up a very good point. Sometimes there is a bit of mean girl culture (for the lack of a better term) when it comes to SAHMs. Perhaps she has her own agenda. Even so, being able to observe my wife's reaction has really made me think.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I was friends with a married couple.
> 
> When she became pregnant he decided to have a one night stand with her lesbian best friend.
> 
> ...


They could base an Eastenders episode off your life Matt.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> They could base an Eastenders episode off your life Matt.


I have thought this myself, Bandit.

However, implausible as it seems, I have kept the _*really*_ weird stuff off TAM.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I should probably further explain my answer. Its not so much that I am looking for the right situation to come along. I certainly don't want to cheat again. But I'm not sure I trust myself to make a promise that it would never happen. I guess I have just seen and experienced too much to make that promise. Not just in my life, but others lives as well. I would actually be more worried about doing it again if I was emphatically stating that it will NEVER happen again. If I did that I couldn't be as guarded as I need to be.


Circular logic. This is the thinking process that gets you in trouble. "I don't know myself well enough to be able to trust myself never to do this again so I just don't make any promises to my wife, so that if I do cheat on her again at least I can say I have not been lying to her or leading her on to believe I was a safe partner?"

Well....who the fvck wants to be married to that? 

Your wife was and is totally within her rights to make friends and discard friends as she wishes. Frankly, you have no say in the matter. Take that mental energy and focus it on becoming a better husband and person. Tend to your own knitting.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I have thought this myself, Bandit.
> 
> However, implausible as it seems, I have kept the _*really*_ weird stuff off TAM.


Ohhhhh...no no no no no no....you tell us right now you swank.....


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Thank you for your honesty. No, I'm not cheating anymore. I'm disgusted with what I have done. I don't believe that its something I will do again. *But admittedly I have failed before. The last time was really wreck-less and to be honest it scared me.*


Interesting. I want to make sure I understand you. You've cheated on her more than once? I ask because it completely changers her reaction, to me.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Interesting. I want to make sure I understand you. You've cheated on her more than once? I ask because it completely changers her reaction, to me.


I thought I did mention on here before that I was a serial, but yes. Not proud of it or anything like that. Only answering because you asked.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You said you rugswept. Does your BW know you are a serial cheater?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Maybe you did and I missed it in this thread. If she knows you are a serial cheater she isn't insecure, scared or any other explanations people can use to describe her actions. At this point she is in self protection and preservation mode. There are people, Augusto comes to mind as the newest, who stick in a marriage strictly for their kids. So, these spouses spend their time avoiding pitfalls, making trust easier and navigating problems to make their stress lower.

Also, remember, we all stereotype to an extent. Guess what? In your wife's eyes, all cheaters are like you. They are all serial cheaters who can't be fully trusted. So, she is going to minimize whatever she can since you can't control yourself. You may be reformed to yourself, but it isn't your call to make for her.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Ohhhhh...no no no no no no....you tell us right now you swank.....


It's something that I am not comfortable revealing yet.

But I probably will, one day.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

No I could not. I would downshift and she would probably quietly move on.

Add to this list women who are just a little too proud of having male friends.

I just can't be bothered, that grooming period where you're trying to give your new friend the benefit of the doubt. ie Did she really mix up my and my husband's cellphone number? And so on..... 

I see developing relationships as an act of investment. And you know how investment analysts make their decisions, in part on past performance and a few other assumptions.

OP, go ahead and call me and your wife insecure. I see being decisive in your choices as an act confidence.

You're obviously not very decisive about whether or not you will cheat again in the future. How confident is that?


----------



## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

ReformedHubby, I strongly urge you to google "How to help your spouse heal from your affair pdf linda macdonald", it's a great book available online for free that might help you and your wife tremendously. Also, get a copy of "Not just friends" and "5 languages of love" from a local library. I think all those will provide very useful information. 

Have you done any individual counselling? It helped me tremendously, as well as many former cheaters.

Also, I recommend you google "No more mr. nice guy pdf", "Codependent no more pdf" and "Toxic parents pdf" (if you had a less than great childhood), all three books available for free.

It must be hard for you to live in fear. In fear of not being sure if you'll never cheat again, in fear of what other people (not your wife) might think of you, in fear of the consequences of rugsweeping,... 

It is not too late for you and your wife to start working hard on addressing the infidelity and the marriage/relationships as a whole. It's also not too late for you to start working hard on yourself, to become an emotionally healthy, mature, strong and stable man, husband and father, and a person of integrity. Please, do it for yourself, your daughter, your wife and other poeple in your life. 

You are probably afraid that if you stop rugsweeping, it might lead to a divorce and end of your marriage. I firmly believe that rugsweeping will always lead to the end of the marriage, either by one spouse eventually filling for divorce or by technically remaining alive because neither will file for divorce due to financial reasons etc.. But it will not be a real marriage, with trust, love, honesty,... And it will be a hollow relationship that will negatively impact your daughter, because she will feel the effects of such a relationship between her parents. 

So the longer you rugsweep, the smaller the chances are of rebuilding a healthy relationship with your wife and sparing your daughter from the detriments of the infidelity and the unhealthy relationship. Look, if you start addressing infidelity, it may still end up in divorce. But the chances of you restoring the relationship are drastically higher the sooner you stop rugsweeping. And even if it comes to a divorce, your hard work on yourself, your remorse and showing it to your wife,..., will very much improve your life, co-parenting relationship with the mother of your child, your relationship with your daughter etc.

You gain nothing real, nothing healthy by rugsweeping. Please, start working on yourself and your relationship with your wife. We will be here for you. Best wishes!


----------



## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Without reading any replies, my first thought is your wife doesn't want to bring a woman that has no boundaries when it comes to marriage around her own husband.



Most people are saying this and it could be partly the reason but what's there to like about a cheater? 

I dumped my very two best friends I've known for 35 years because they cheated. Cheaters have poor boundaries, lie effortlessly, and are not trustworthy. 

I don't trust cheaters and I applaud your wife's choice. Plenty of chances for your daughter to make friends with decent kids with decent parents. 

I steer clear of cheaters at all cost. And although I initially wrestled with my choices, now that I am removed from the friendships, I feel much better about myself and make it a point to feel comfortable with who I'm around. 

You should respect your wife's choices in friends. She is an adult and if something or someone makes her feel uncomfortable so be it.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I can see why she would not want to bring a new woman willing to cheat around her husband who is willing to cheat.


Duh.

It always amazes me that the former cheaters can't see that the pain/fear/doubt REMAINS for the betrayed partner.

ETA: I just read this on Augusto's thread, and thought it might help you understand your wife a little better; it's the wife who cheated in their case:


> She said the other day she really misses the fun loving husband she used to have before her affair. She said I am not the man she married. She said I have turned into a very cynical person with a short fuse and wants "old me" back.
> 
> Marriage counselor already told her that the husband she once knew will probably never be back. To tell you the truth, I am not sure I know who the "old me" is. My opinion is anyone that ate the sh!t sandwich to stay married and raise their children will always have changes no matter who that person used to be.
> 
> ...


----------



## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I would never be friends with a cheater. Nor would hubby. We're plum full of cheaters in our lives at our house. It's all we can do to keep each other in our lives as we both cheated.


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I thought I did mention on here before that I was a serial, but yes. Not proud of it or anything like that. Only answering because you asked.


This is sad. To couple that with the fact that you can't make a promise that you won't cheat again because you don't know if the situation will arise is just so awful. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but how can you do that to someone who loves you? I mean, you are literally destroying this person. You do realize that, right? 

In addition to that, you are teaching your child how to behave. What if she was married to someone like you?? What would you tell her to do? 

My H has cheated twice and it has completely changed who I am. It almost led me to suicide. If not for my children, I don't know where or who I would be right now. I loved him so much and he betrayed me not once, but twice. I won't ever be hurt like that again. I won't let him do that again. 

So, I'm really not trying to bash you or anything. I am just really having a hard time understanding, I guess. Do you just not care for her that much? When you betray someone like this, you literally just destroy who they are. Do you care that you could be destroying another person?

That's also to say that if she is allowing it to go that far, she should leave as well. But I mean, that's between you guys, of course. Please don't think that I'm trying to bash you or be mean, I am just really curious is all. Maybe I'm trying to get inside my H's head lol.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I should probably further explain my answer. Its not so much that I am looking for the right situation to come along. I certainly don't want to cheat again. But I'm not sure I trust myself to make a promise that it would never happen. I guess I have just seen and experienced too much to make that promise. Not just in my life, but others lives as well. I would actually be more worried about doing it again if I was emphatically stating that it will NEVER happen again. If I did that I couldn't be as guarded as I need to be.




I honestly was hoping I was wrong with my thoughts on your answer. Now that you have confirmed I took that as correct I feel for your wife. She must be so lost and scared, not knowing the correct path to choose must be painful. However, you could have said I was way off base and responding as a crazy betrayed spouse. So I applaud your honesty in your answer. Something that bothers me is you say you can't promise to never cheat again. That you don't trust yourself to not cheat again. My question is when you got married you vowed to remain true to your wife, I see a vow as a promise, did you think of cheating once you were married? If you did why get married? If you didn't, how did you become a serial cheater? I'm not trying to be mean but rather understand how you valued marriage when you got married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

always_hopefull said:


> Does your wife know about "all" your affairs?


Interesting... A truthful answer to that One Question is would explain much.


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> You actually bring up a very good point. Sometimes there is a bit of mean girl culture (for the lack of a better term) when it comes to SAHMs. Perhaps she has her own agenda. Even so, being able to observe my wife's reaction has really made me think.


It's pretty simple. If I were in her shoes I wouldn't be friends with a woman who cheated on her H. You cheated, so you are a 'risk'. Why bring a woman around who also has a demonstrated lack of control / respect for the sanctity of marriage?

Your wife sounds smart. You should stop questioning her, it makes it sound like you miss your window into this other woman's life.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I have spent the past several years noticing very carefully how women respond to a cheating woman in their social group.

When the cheating is disclosed, there's often a closing of ranks around the cheating woman, giving her support, she had reasons for what she did, or she was tempted into it, or whatever.

But this seems to be _very_ short lived and the cheating woman is slowly but surely ostracized from the primary social group through a variety of back-stabbing and gossip, social isolation, and ensuring that woman isn't around their husbands for natural reasons.

I find it quite fascinating.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> This is sad. To couple that with the fact that you can't make a promise that you won't cheat again because you don't know if the situation will arise is just so awful. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but how can you do that to someone who loves you? I mean, you are literally destroying this person. You do realize that, right?
> 
> In addition to that, you are teaching your child how to behave. What if she was married to someone like you?? What would you tell her to do?
> 
> ...


I don't take your post as mean at all. I'll be honest, I didn't expect my post to spill into the intimate details of my relationship. We are not at all unhappy. I love my wife and would be devastated if she left. I honestly was just hoping to understand why she is okay with and loves me, but kicked her friend to the curb. I can certainly appreciate all of the posts about helping her heal, but after all these years I've just come to the conclusion that based on her upbringing she just doesn't view adultery as the betrayal that most people do. If I noticed that she was in pain I would certainly do all I could to help heal her.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ReformedHubby said:


> I've just come to the conclusion that based on her upbringing she just doesn't view adultery as the betrayal that most people do. If I noticed that she was in pain I would certainly do all I could to help heal her.


Not being in pain all the time is not the same as protecting her marriage from a possible interloper (and you). She's not dumb.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't take your post as mean at all. I'll be honest, I didn't expect my post to spill into the intimate details of my relationship. We are not at all unhappy. I love my wife and would be devastated if she left. I honestly was just hoping to understand why she is okay with and loves me, but kicked her friend to the curb. I can certainly appreciate all of the posts about helping her heal, but after all these years I've just come to the conclusion that based on her upbringing she just doesn't view adultery as the betrayal that most people do. If I noticed that she was in pain I would certainly do all I could to help heal her.


So, if it's not that she doesn't want to be around her because infidelity in marriage doesn't really bother her, maybe there's another reason you titled the thread, "Could you stay friends with a cheater if you found out about their affair"? 

Didn't you place these thoughts in folks heads with your op? If you just wanted opinions, you wouldn't have had to bring up your wife at all, would you? 

But hey, "whatever...". 

Do you know the answer to your question in the above quote?

Ask her. No problem, right? :scratchhead:

Take care, RH.


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't take your post as mean at all. I'll be honest, I didn't expect my post to spill into the intimate details of my relationship. We are not at all unhappy. I love my wife and would be devastated if she left. I honestly was just hoping to understand why she is okay with and loves me, but kicked her friend to the curb. I can certainly appreciate all of the posts about helping her heal, but after all these years I've just come to the conclusion that based on her upbringing she just doesn't view adultery as the betrayal that most people do. If I noticed that she was in pain I would certainly do all I could to help heal her.


Well, thank you for taking the time to answer. I do appreciate it.

It seems as though you guys have a different dynamic maybe than many people do. 

Her reaction to her friend being a cheater, does seem to indicate that she is in pain, though. At least from the outside reading in. Maybe she is afraid to verbalize it? I obviously do not know you or her, so there is no possible way I could know for sure, but just throwing it out there. 

She might be one of those people that if she has to verbalize what has happened, then she would have to face the reality of it. The reality of it isn't pretty. 

I know it took me 5 years to face the music with my H. His second affair was almost 3 years ago now and I have finally come around. The process didn't start until middle of last year for me though. Before that, I couldn't even muster the strength to say the words, "he cheated again." For a while, I just pretended like it didn't even happen. Sure, I was upset at first, but I tried like hell to rug sweep it so that I wouldn't hurt anymore. 

My H is a lot like you in the sense that he also would be devastated if I left him. He is adamantly against divorce, and cries at the thought of it. He swears he is absolutely happy, too. Though to me, that doesn't seem to be true if he keeps looking elsewhere and risking my health, our children's future, and his career in the process. It all seems pretty selfish to me. He can easily move out and go get the girlfriend he so desperately wants. At this point, it wouldn't hurt my feelings in the slightest. I married him. He married me. I didn't agree to involve others in my marriage. But because he has done this on more than one occasion, he has killed my feelings for him. We are in discussions now on if we can even live together for another 6 months. 

Your W refusing to be friends with this woman, seems to be a clear indicator that she is not okay with what's happened. The fact that she immediately dumped her as a friend speaks in high volumes that this is pretty important to her. 

She has a child with you. She has a life with you. That's why she may not be ready to "dump" you. It's more difficult (but not impossible) to walk away from someone you've built a life with. She doesn't owe any of that to this other lady, though. 

Thanks again for answering. While I don't agree with the choices you've made, I also cannot judge you for them. I can only throw my experience out there - and that's basically if you step on someone enough, eventually they wear down to nothing. Once they feel like they have nothing - they either build themselves back up without the thing that causes them to feel like sh*t, or they wither away. Either way, they are never the same as they were before.


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

marduk said:


> I have spent the past several years noticing very carefully how women respond to a cheating woman in their social group.
> 
> When the cheating is disclosed, there's often a closing of ranks around the cheating woman, giving her support, she had reasons for what she did, or she was tempted into it, or whatever.
> 
> ...


This is very interesting. My ex WS revealed all to her close nit childhood friends. I had the VAR rolling at home and picked up the whole conversation.

The amazing thing was the complete lack of reaction from the 5 women (she's known them since kindergarten). When she confessed there was a short silence and then one of the women, who has not been around the group in recent years, said "Wow, what have I been missing?"

From that point my ex WS went into quite a bit of detail about how I had "checked out" and how she was peppered with e-mails from this "attractive" man. She told them how surprised she was that I was devastated and at first wondered if my reaction was like a child who has had his toys taken by another kid. (that really hurt me - I realised our relationship was completely non existent despite my depression and moods and it also showed how little she cared about the effect on me).

The thing is there have been no ramifications. She only sees them a couple of times each year, but nothing obvious. My ex WS does not seem to have a clue what that revelation may have meant to her life long friends. They must wonder. 

I think it proves how totally disconnected my ex WS is from these things. If it bothers her you wouldn't know. Then again she drinks - maybe she just washes it away each night.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

RH, after thinking about this for a while, I want to tell you something. These women and men here were trying to help you. Your posts brought up some questions for me. You don't have to answer. I don't expect a thing and I can't help you, but some of these folks sure can. I may not word this the best, but I am not trying to be a smart aleck. 

You are a rug sweeper, aren't you?

You don't get the emotional closeness you need so when a woman comes along that offers it, you can't help yourself because you are starving for your wife to really hug, kiss and love you. Not so much that you are looking for sex, cause that feels like she is going through the motions and not into it. You want her to want you and show it. You want her to be there for you emotionally sometimes, but you get only what she has to give as a dedicated wife. 

Or something like that, maybe? Huh? That's why you can't promise you won't cheat. You love your wife and want to be in a nice monogamous marriage, but you just can't get that with her. You have the outward appearance, but that's not enough and you have to do something about it sometimes, right?

If and I do mean if, because I don't know, but I feel poorly just letting this go altogether without giving it one last shot, that is the case, these folks, many of them, including me, understand and they will help you do the best you can to try to get that. It may or may not work, but it's worth a shot, if you truly love her. If you don't truly love her, let her go.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> RH, after thinking about this for a while, I want to tell you something. These women and men here were trying to help you. Your posts brought up some questions for me. You don't have to answer. I don't expect a thing and I can't help you, but some of these folks sure can. I may not word this the best, but I am not trying to be a smart aleck.
> 
> You are a rug sweeper, aren't you?
> 
> ...


I certainly don't have a desire to be dissected here. But your assumptions are so far off I feel compelled to answer. I can understand though. Because you are viewing it from a logical and moral standpoint. The reality is there is nothing wrong with my wife at all. I feel very fortunate to have her. She is and always has been very affectionate towards me. She has always put me first. There are no shortcomings or flaws on her part, its all on me. In fact this has been a source of frustration of my APs. They expected me to bash my wife. But I never do. When I was younger the cheating was all about more sex, for the sake of having more sex. I stopped for a very long time. But then...I ended up having a lot more success in life than I ever imagined at a relatively young age for the most part. It changed me. I can admit that now. I didn't see it happening but my ego totally got the best of me. I had a sense of entitlement and I did what I did because I could. For no other reason. I realize this now and I am very much aware of it. I won't delete this thread, but I probably won't post in it anymore. I certainly appreciate the help that people have tried to offer. But I guess I'm just not ready to be as open as I need to be for that to occur. Maybe I never will be.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

RH, thanks for the reply/ies. Have you considered reading the books I've recommended? Even if your wife hasn't been hurting as much due to infidelity, the books might still help you and your marriage, and basically your life in general. Best wishes


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I certainly don't have a desire to be dissected here. But your assumptions are so far off I feel compelled to answer. I can understand though. Because you are viewing it from a logical and moral standpoint. The reality is there is nothing wrong with my wife at all. I feel very fortunate to have her. She is and always has been very affectionate towards me. She has always put me first. There are no shortcomings or flaws on her part, its all on me. In fact this has been a source of frustration of my APs. They expected me to bash my wife. But I never do. When I was younger the cheating was all about more sex, for the sake of having more sex. I stopped for a very long time. But then...I ended up having a lot more success in life than I ever imagined at a relatively young age for the most part. It changed me. I can admit that now. I didn't see it happening but my ego totally got the best of me. I had a sense of entitlement and I did what I did because I could. For no other reason. I realize this now and I am very much aware of it. I won't delete this thread, but I probably won't post in it anymore. I certainly appreciate the help that people have tried to offer. But I guess I'm just not ready to be as open as I need to be for that to occur. Maybe I never will be.


Yeah, you're right. I just can't understand that type of thinking and so I was way off. Good luck.


----------



## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> I certainly don't have a desire to be dissected here. But your assumptions are so far off I feel compelled to answer. I can understand though. Because you are viewing it from a logical and moral standpoint. The reality is there is nothing wrong with my wife at all. I feel very fortunate to have her. She is and always has been very affectionate towards me. She has always put me first. There are no shortcomings or flaws on her part, its all on me. In fact this has been a source of frustration of my APs. They expected me to bash my wife. But I never do. When I was younger the cheating was all about more sex, for the sake of having more sex. I stopped for a very long time. But then...I ended up having a lot more success in life than I ever imagined at a relatively young age for the most part. It changed me. I can admit that now. I didn't see it happening but my ego totally got the best of me. I had a sense of entitlement and I did what I did because I could. For no other reason. I realize this now and I am very much aware of it. I won't delete this thread, but I probably won't post in it anymore. I certainly appreciate the help that people have tried to offer. But I guess I'm just not ready to be as open as I need to be for that to occur. Maybe I never will be.


You are free to leave all of our opinions and ideas as others opinions taken as your own are not healthy. 

But I still will offer mine even if you do not see this or post

It's a very eloquent way to rug sweep

"Maybe I never will"

It sounds very poetic and mysterious but it is a way to avoid truly demanding you to make a stand. It's just circumstances and falling into and seeing how it goes. 

It's not taking a stand. It's not deciding.

When will the time be? When will you know yourself enough? 

And not in the esoteric, mystical, shifting focus from the choice "Does anyone really know themselves?"


Marriage is about being faithful. You stepped into it with a "well, we'll see if I am faithful"

You cheated and stepped into "Well, we'll see if I tell all"

You reconciled and stepped into, "Well, we'll see if I don't cheat again"

Take a stand for something.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'll say again that I think this is pretty simple: Your BW doesn't want the two of you in the same orbit if she can help it. It's too dangerous. She'll never be comfortable that you're not tempted by a single mom who is willing to homewreck, or that the friend isn't crossing some line & this is frankly far too much agita to deal with. Why tempt fate? It's just easier to keep her out of your lives.

It's the female equivalent of c0ckblocking.


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

The fact that your mother doesn't like her should possible tell you something.

But I will say based on some of your posts I see trends in similar lines of thinking amongst people on TAM.

Now my question is, where you aware of the affair?

If you had a friend who was actively having an affair, would you join them for dinner? Assuming she's a true BFF I would assume that you knew the husband, correct? Were you a friend of the husband and acted like you didn't know?

My exF wanted me to hang out with one of her friends for dinner and her friend was dating a married guy. I refused to go and she got mad. Wanted nothing to do with it.



SecondTime'Round said:


> One of my BFFs cheated on her husband and ruined her marriage. She'll always be one of my best friends.
> 
> My mother doesn't like her, though!


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Your wife is doing the right thing. Cudos to her.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

jdawg2015 said:


> The fact that your mother doesn't like her should possible tell you something.
> 
> But I will say based on some of your posts I see trends in similar lines of thinking amongst people on TAM.
> 
> ...


No, nobody knew because she hid it. Everyone suspected (because it was an on/off thing) but she refused to fess up. Until she did. And yes, I was friends with her husband, but friends through her. And, she lives more than 2 hours away from me, so it's not like I interacted with her husband frequently. Only when I visited them at their home for the weekend. He's unfortunately turned into a big jerk after their divorce and his remarriage. Everyone is quite disappointed in him and how he's behaving as a father to his girls . He really was such a good guy.

I would not go have dinner with someone and their affair partner. No way. 

My friend has huge remorse and regret for what she did to her ex and her family. She's a much stronger Christian now than she was back then, too.


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Well he has to own his own actions but the daughters probably become a symbol of a reminder about his exW. He'll kick himself if he doesn't change his ways.

I'm really glad to hear you would not hang out with an affair couple. When my exF did that, and how casual she was about it really was a huge hit to how I viewed her.



SecondTime'Round said:


> No, nobody knew because she hid it. Everyone suspected (because it was an on/off thing) but she refused to fess up. Until she did. And yes, I was friends with her husband, but friends through her. And, she lives more than 2 hours away from me, so it's not like I interacted with her husband frequently. Only when I visited them at their home for the weekend. He's unfortunately turned into a big jerk after their divorce and his remarriage. Everyone is quite disappointed in him and how he's behaving as a father to his girls . He really was such a good guy.
> 
> I would not go have dinner with someone and their affair partner. No way.
> 
> My friend has huge remorse and regret for what she did to her ex and her family. She's a much stronger Christian now than she was back then, too.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

jdawg2015 said:


> Well he has to own his own actions but the daughters probably become a symbol of a reminder about his exW. He'll kick himself if he doesn't change his ways.
> 
> I'm really glad to hear you would not hang out with an affair couple. When my exF did that, and how casual she was about it really was a huge hit to how I viewed her.


Yeah, he will I think. He has step-daughters now and treats them better than his own daughters. (A lot of it comes from him bending to his controlling new wife) I was with his oldest daughter as she moved into college in August, and hearing her talk about it broke my heart . She's the sweetest girl ever so she'll be ok, but I do worry about her younger sister.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My dad remarried when I was 15. When I turned 16, obviously with his new wife (evil witch) whispering in his ear, he told me that he would no longer be making his monthly visit to hang out with me, that I knew where he lived, and now that I had a driver's license, I could drive to see him. Just another step in a huge, years-long f-up. After which he legally adopted his wife's son (my age), who was also a major f-up. When I needed help getting a reference to work at NASA, my dad, who worked there, refused to even write a letter, let alone make a phone call. When his 'new' son returned from the Navy after ten years (to which he went because the judge overseeing his drug case said prison or military), my dad called up the HEAD of the local nuclear power plant, with whom he'd once worked 15 years earlier, and asked him to hire my stepbrother. Each year, his wife would tell us at Christmas who was 'in the will' and who wasn't. She kept adding her family members; my husband was never IN the will to begin with, and after I called her out for doing something really bad, I got cut from it, too. Even my real brother got cut out; in the end, she and her son got everything. She even kept our daughter's college fund my dad had set up.

Never underestimate the power of new wives. Nor the devastation it wreaks on the kids left behind.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

turnera said:


> My dad remarried when I was 15. When I turned 16, obviously with his new wife (evil witch) whispering in his ear, he told me that he would no longer be making his monthly visit to hang out with me, that I knew where he lived, and now that I had a driver's license, I could drive to see him. Just another step in a huge, years-long f-up. After which he legally adopted his wife's son (my age), who was also a major f-up. When I needed help getting a reference to work at NASA, my dad, who worked there, refused to even write a letter, let alone make a phone call. When his 'new' son returned from the Navy after ten years (to which he went because the judge overseeing his drug case said prison or military), my dad called up the HEAD of the local nuclear power plant, with whom he'd once worked 15 years earlier, and asked him to hire my stepbrother. Each year, his wife would tell us at Christmas who was 'in the will' and who wasn't. She kept adding her family members; my husband was never IN the will to begin with, and after I called her out for doing something really bad, I got cut from it, too. Even my real brother got cut out; in the end, she and her son got everything. She even kept our daughter's college fund my dad had set up.
> 
> Never underestimate the power of new wives. Nor the devastation it wreaks on the kids left behind.


My goodness! That is awful! 

My friend that I mentioned.....the day her daughter was moving into college last year as a freshman, his step-D was also moving into college (another college). He went to help HER instead of his own daughter, and his daughter was moving into HIS (and mine) alma mater!! Now, I know part of that was because his ex wife and her friends (i.e. me) would be there for part of it and he just didn't want to deal with it, but we (friends) made it clear that if he wanted to go, we'd back away and not go at all. I know his daughter loved having all of her "mothers" there, but hands down would have preferred her father.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You know why, right? He's thinking with his small head. If I make my (new) wife angry, she'll cut me off. 

In my dad's case, it was that, but it was also that he wanted a woman who would take care of him. That's why he left my mom - she wouldn't give up her career to stay home and care for him.

If you can, put that out there, that he's human, he's weak, and he's afraid of making his wife mad at him, so he does what she tells him to. In other words, that it's not her.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> My wife became good friends with a single mother that lives in the neighborhood a little over a year ago. They started hanging out at least once a week and it was good for my daughter as well because she became friends with the woman's daughter. I was happy my daughter had play dates because she has a difficult time making friends.
> 
> Well to make a long story short. Another woman who is really more of an acquaintance informed my wife that her new friend had an affair with her boss that resulted in the end of her marriage. Once my wife found this out she completely stopped hanging out with this woman.
> 
> ...


this woman was not a life long friend but a new friend correct? I get why your wife distanced herself from her - why bring a new person into your life with that history. RH your wife is still carrying scars of your infidelity - there is no doubt about that - I get her 100%. Yo should cut her some slack and not challenge her again on it. You are her H, the father of her children so she stayed but why should allow a woman like tha tinto her life and compound her worries...


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Another couple of points - perhaps knowing this woman cheated makes your wife trigger? Point # 2 - perhaps knowing she destroyed her own marriage through disloyalty your wife is reluctant to make her a good friend because she thinks she simply could never trust her. either way I'm with your wife 100% on this one.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I wouldn't. I don't have friends or girlfriends of low morale character


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Another couple of points - perhaps knowing this woman cheated makes your wife trigger? Point # 2 - perhaps knowing she destroyed her own marriage through disloyalty your wife is reluctant to make her a good friend because she thinks she simply could never trust her. either way I'm with your wife 100% on this one.


I thought this thread was dead.....I do agree that she doesn't trust this woman, and to be honest probably not me either. It does make me sad though. I am no saint, but I'd have to be a huge POS to mess with one of her friends. I would NEVER do that. Without going into too many details it seems my wife was right for wanting this woman out of our lives. Other woman have come forward and more than one thinks she was overly flirty with their husbands. I honestly never noticed anything, but then again I never really talked to her all that much. She did send me a linkedin request (I didn't accept) but thats not unusual. Is this a case of gossip run amok? Maybe. But, it really doesn't matter, if the wife wants her out she's out.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I thought this thread was dead.....I do agree that she doesn't trust this woman, and to be honest probably not me either. It does make me sad though. I am no saint, but I'd have to be a huge POS to mess with one of her friends. I would NEVER do that. Without going into too many details it seems my wife was right for wanting this woman out of our lives. Other woman have come forward and more than one thinks she was overly flirty with their husbands. I honestly never noticed anything, but then again I never really talked to her all that much. She did send me a linkedin request (I didn't accept) but thats not unusual. Is this a case of gossip run amok? Maybe. But, it really doesn't matter, if the wife wants her out she's out.


RH - *the scars from your infidelity with be with your wife for life* but you know that and from time to time it will pop up in circumstances like this. From what you describe she didn't attack you she just cut the woman off - I totally understand why.


----------

