# My Story with Betrayel



## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

*My Story with Betrayal*

I will break this up into four parts:
Overview of her affair
Description of people involved
Things I have learned and would change
Some questions


Overview:

About three months ago my wife confessed to me that she was seeing someone (an affair but she would not admit to it). When she told me she apologised to me for the pain it will cause, that was the only time she has said sorry. At that point it was an emotional, and a little physical and nearing sexual. With some reluctance she opened up her facebook conversations and emails. I found out that this was a collage friend that she never dated and barely knew during collage that she wanted to get with after she got back from her mission(mormons) but he was married by the time she got back. *Important to note- in his first facebook message back to her he pointed out he wanted an affair with her.* I asked her to cut all contact but she was unwilling because she needed him to help with a friends collage project, which as it turned out was against the class rules. I allowed it because "I loved her." If helping a friend with his project was a benign gesture it turned into a safety net to continue the affair. Which it did. It got much worse due to the continued contact. It was at this point I finally showed her that what she was doing was having an affair.

I wanted her to stop but she was entirely unwilling. I told her I was going to tell her parents if she didn't. She did and had a discussion with her. Her parents related to me that she was lost in emotions and barely reconsigned their daughter in her. I tried to contact the OM's wife through facebook but she never responded (the OM said to my wife it was because his wife didn't want to hear from me.) Nothing changed no matter what I did. I was able to convince her to give me two months of just me and no contact with him. I used that time to try to win her back but it was for nothing. I was too hurt to be charming or the man she thought the OM was. I kicked her out at that point. I gave up after she told me she was planning on having sex with him after my time was up.
I told her I would keep her actions a secret until she gave me no hope of us working things out. I then told my family which spread to her family due to my siblings are friends with her siblings. I then talked with the OM Bishop(mormons). He was sad to hear of this and wanted the facebook conversations and emails as proof I was telling the truth, which is something my wife did not want me to do because she wanted to protect the OM.

After the exposing of her betrayal she told me she choose me over him. I wanted her to write the OM telling him that but she would not. I was too badly damaged to feel anything for her and told her we needed to go to marriage counselling if she wanted to work this out. She was very against it. (She has had bad experiences in the past with them.) She finally agreed to counselling and that same week meet with the OM for the last time were they told each other they love each other and always will, will cherish the moments they spent together and committed to marrying each other "if anything bad were to happen to me."

At this point we would spend the week ends with each other to date and talk. We have gone on two vacations and plan on a third. We have been to some counselling sessions but are making slow progress. During the aftermath I had discovered I had an EA at the beginning of our marriage. It consisted of a woman I meet at work before getting married. We would small talk and flirt over texts before I was married. I continued the same behaviour after being married. She and I texted for 2-3 months after I was married. The text sessions where on the week ends or after a fight with my wife. She invited me out on three occasions to bars and once to an apartment complex. I never meet her in person outside of work or told her of anything personal. I don't remember my thought procees but I decided to stop responding to her texts one day.
I never realised I had an EA until I was reflecting on my past. I was wrong and completely selfish to have had an EA and have apologized repeatedly for it. My actions have hurt her. At the time though she used it to manipulate me.

During the past two months I have had a hard time not being angry at my wife and this has made things hard for the reconciliation.
The affair consisted of 15 or so meetings, 8 of them were dates which near the end involved heavy kissing, petting and grinding. I know this because the OM made mention of it in their conversations the following days. The meetings where usually in the evening after he got off of work, a few where on his lunch break others were driving him to work.



Description of people involved

Me and my wife: Been married for a little over 5 years and are around 30 years old. No kids. We were mormons.

Me: Work as truck driver. Home on weekends. My father had and affair when I was a child that lasted for two years complete with the neglect and insults and ended with my dad leaving. Her affair bought back all that pain I thought I was over.

Wife: Doesn’t work, was trying to pursue and acting career. The affair started after my wife sent an inappropriate message to OM expressing regret about not being able to have a chance dating him after getting back from her mission. (While at collage they never dated and only only "hang out" with him on rare occasions while at collage.) It was a EA then on the second meeting turned to a PA.

OM: Same age. Has been married for 7 years has four kids ranging from 0-5 years old. Is a "faithful" temple going mormon. Has been trying to keep contact with my wife ever since he was married. Confessed to wanting to have and affair with my wife ever since he got married 7 years ago but didn’t have a chance until she contacted him.
He made a list of what kind of qualities he wanted in a wife when he was in high school and my wife apparently had all of them. He said she was the perfect woman for him. *Important to note- he never made any effort before he got married to get with my wife. He said in his conversations that he loved the fact that my wife would accept "his dark side" which my wife told me was that he has always wanted to have an affair. She was the lucky one.*


Things I have learned and would change

What I wish I did when I first found out:
That I immediately outed my wife and the OM.
That I kicked my wife out that day.
Sought marriage counselling ASAP.
And when talking to my wife did so only with the understanding I am dealing with an addict.


Things I regret not doing in the past:

We have always had problems in our marriage and I wanted counselling in our first year but she was against it. I wish I went by myself.

I wish we knew what EA were and set up rules to affair proof our marriage.

I wish I never looked at porn in my teen years. I stopped for religious reasons(mormon). After getting married and being able to express those emotions again caused some strife.
This is what I mean: When I masturbated in the past I could do it whenever the sexual urge come up. My body was used to that type of rhythm. When I could express those feelings again in marriage I believe my body, mind or something wanted to return to that same rhythm. SinceI had a higher sex drive and couldn't, I got frustrated and became a jackass to my wife. You might think "why not just return to masterbating and porn again?" I promised myself I wouldn't. I consider it a form of an EA.

I wish I never sought an emotional escape from my marriage problems. My escapes were computer games, blogging websites, projects, spending time with friends and even books instead of talking to my wife about why I emotionally distance myself.

I wish I took more interest in my wife’s hobbies. Mine and hers overlap but I have never taken the time to combined them.


Some Questions:

How to I move past the anger?
How to I get past the pain?


*I edited it to fix the misspelled word.*


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Forget counseling for now. MC is for married couples who need help in their marriage. 

Right now, you're wife is not married to you. She's more into the OM than you. If MC were to occur now - is should be between them or it should include him too. 

From your description of your marriage I think it would be wise to let her go. Let her go and work on yourself. Seek IC from a competent counselor. I have nothing against religion based counselors but there are too many with an agenda that is not always in your best interest. 

You should expose the affair to the OMW - do what you can to find her location. Don't buy the reason you've been given. Take evidence to her. She deserves to know. 

And don't for a minute believe that she "chooses you" now. BTW she chose you when she recited her vows! If she wants out - then out she goes. Tell her to have a little decency with you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Are you still all faithful Mormons? Then you need to get the Bishops and Stake Presidents involved to organise "Courts of Love" to get them dealt with.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked, are you sure OMW is aware of her husband having an affair with your wife?, many times this kind of cheaters intercepts mails and FB messages because the have been warned from their affair partners (in this case your wife) that the BS have the intention to infor their spouses.

if you have not 100% comfirmation that his wife knows I advice you to keep trying to coantact her, becuase you may think that things between them are over but as long as the OM is free of consequences he have no reason to stop looking his free sex sessions


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I really can't understand why you are still with her, much less trying to save your "marriage". Forgive me for putting it this way, but there is no other way of putting it: "Where is your self respect man!". If I were is your shoes I would have thrown her out and would be exposing this affair to anyone and every one, with all the details. Also as walkonmars said:Tell the other guys wife!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Incidentally this kind of stuff goes on in the Mormon Church more than you might suppose.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Forget counseling for now. MC is for married couples who need help in their marriage.
> 
> Right now, you're wife is not married to you. She's more into the OM than you. If MC were to occur now - is should be between them or it should include him too.
> 
> ...


I believe alot of my negativity bleeds through my words. She could very well be already gone. We keep fighting because I keep bringing up the affair. I told her it could be because I don't see regret and remorse from her. She says she is. I am not sure.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Incidentally this kind of stuff goes on in the Mormon Church more than you might suppose.


Niether her nor I are mormons anymore. The OM's bishop and stake president have talked with him. Last I heard from the bishop is that he was lying through his teath and was removed from all preisthood capacities.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I believe alot of my negativity bleeds through my words. She could very well be already gone. *We keep fighting because I keep bringing up the affair*. *I told her it could be because I don't see regret and remorse from her. She says she is. I am not sure*.


you are absoluty right, your reaction is normal don't let nobody tell you otherwise, and yes she does not seem remorseful, let me bring some old posts mine to this conversation


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> Niether her nor I are mormons anymore. The OM's bishop and stake president have talked with him. Last I heard from the bishop is that he was lying through his teath and was removed from all preisthood capacities.


Good for you! 

You could place him on www.cheatereville.com.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

would love to tell you that there is a easy way to overcome this but that is not the case, is hard, painful, requires real desire for you part and remorse and lots of heavy lifting for your WS, and for what I am Reading she is still not doing really effort to heal you.

I am sharing this post that will give tou and insight of what are you going through and, letting you know that your reactions are normal, and what is what your WS should do to help you to heal, share with her

post number 3

"Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners:"

you have to share it with your wife and she have to memorize it, to understand what to expect from you and how to really heal you.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Good for you!
> 
> You could place him on www.cheatereville.com.


Wont that be a bit too much?


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> I believe alot of my negativity bleeds through my words. She could very well be already gone. We keep fighting because I keep bringing up the affair. I told her it could be because I don't see regret and remorse from her. She says she is. I am not sure.


Seriously brother, you need to let your testosterone bleed through your words.

She is gone. She is gone into the land of lala and polygamy. You keep fighting because your wife is a disrespectful _________ of a woman who wants to bed another man and leave you sit and wallow in your self pity.

MC will NOT work. You need to boot her to the curb and blow up the affair. Go to his temple and scream it at the top of your lungs during the main service or whatever you need to do. Your wife is lost. She needs to find herself. 

Find people who can matter and apply pressure. The OMW needs to know and she is really just sticking her head in the sand. Find your courage. It is not be nice time it is be a man time. If she doesn't want you kick her cheating self out and move on and don't look back!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Your anger needs to be channeled to a purpose - it appears you are letting your anger and feeling of betrayal get hold of you - this leaves you floundering and appearing weak to your wife. 

The OM looks strong to her - sorry but it's often the case. 

Your best bet is to expose the affair RIGHT NOW to the OM'sW. Then institute the 180 (see the link in my sig line). 

Take time. Lot's of it to consider what you want out of the rest of your life. Do you feel comfortable having this woman, who would lie to you and carry on an affair with a married man - a woman who would be a party to the destruction of two families - be mother to your children? If so, ask yourself why?

You should thank God that you don't have children with this woman.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> *I believe alot of my negativity bleeds through my words. She could very well be already gone. We keep fighting because I keep bringing up the affair. I told her it could be because I don't see regret and remorse from her. She says she is. I am not sure.*


*

No man, that is a totally normal reaction, cheating takes deception, manipulation, planning, ploting, so many despicable actions betraying someone who you are supposed to love and protect.

something would be wrong with you, if trust her just by believing her words, that is why WS have to accept the full transparency policy if they want a second chance.

- full acces to cell pone and no passwords, and you are free to look at it whenever you want.
- full acces to all passwords for social media FB, skype, mails.
- GPS installed in cell pone.
- report of where she is or where she is going when she go out of routine.
- key logger in her computer (this you have to do it without her knowladge).

if she refuses, she is no remorseful and probably still hading something.*


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Your best bet is to expose the affair RIGHT NOW to the OM'sW. Then institute the 180 (see the link in my sig line).


I have told my family and hers. I have informed his church. I have contacted the OM father becasue that is the only number I could find online. I have sent the OM family a facebook message informing them. I have tried contacting the OM wife through facebook but not in person. What else is there to do?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> - full acces to cell pone and no passwords, and you are free to look at it whenever you want.
> - full acces to all passwords for social media FB, skype, mails.
> - GPS installed in cell pone.
> - report of where she is or where she is going when she go out of routine.
> ...


- full acces to cell pone and no passwords, and you are free to look at it whenever you want.

Is ok with


- full acces to all passwords for social media FB, skype, mails.

Will not because she says I have been cyber stalking the OM.

- GPS installed in cell pone.

Will not

- report of where she is or where she is going when she go out of routine.

Will not

- key logger in her computer (this you have to do it without her knowladge).

It is password protected


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> - full acces to all passwords for social media FB, skype, mails.
> 
> 
> Will not because she says I have been cyber stalking the OM.
> ...


*These are all deal-breakers*. What's she's telling you is that she's single and won't respect boundaries. She wants the single life while you provide the daddy role of providing food and shelter. F that! *TIME TO 180*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The OM does not consider you married. You are no longer Mormons, so he sees your marriage as not being valid.

He has targeted your wife as he sees her as fair game as she is married to an apostate. He wants to take her from you and take her as a "spiritual bride" who he will keep secret from his own wife. He will then reactivate your wife as a faithful Mormon. Whilst having sex with her, of course.

As all this -if public- would get him excommunicated in most -but not all- Mormon Wards, then he will not want any publicity.

Please remind me. Does his wife know?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> The OM does not consider you married. You are no longer Mormons, so he sees your marriage as not being valid.
> 
> He has targeted your wife as he sees her as fair game as she is married to an apostate. He wants to take her from you and take her as a "spiritual bride" who he will keep secret from his own wife. He will then reactivate your wife as a faithful Mormon. Whilst having sex with her, of course.
> 
> ...


According to his bishop she doesn't. My wife wrote her an apoligy letter, not sure if she got it though. I could meet her in person, I feel that would be unwise.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> According to his bishop she doesn't. My wife wrote her an apoligy letter, not sure if she got it though. I could meet her in person, I feel that would be unwise.


Send her a registered post letter. Or do you have a trusted female friend who could deliver the letter?

Actually, his/her Bishop should tell her.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> - full acces to cell pone and no passwords, and you are free to look at it whenever you want.
> 
> Is ok with
> 
> ...


think rationally (not offense intended), this is the most important of all, this is how they first contacted and how they conducted all their affair, really, as you already stated your wife is not remorseful, she is not thinking in your welfare


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I have told my family and hers. I have informed his church. I have contacted the OM father becasue that is the only number I could find online. I have sent the OM family a facebook message informing them. I have tried contacting the OM wife through facebook but not in person. What else is there to do?





Cloaked said:


> According to his bishop she doesn't. My wife wrote her an apoligy letter, not sure if she got it though. I could meet her in person, I feel that would be unwise.


you are still not informing the most important person OMW, investigate her email if necessary (OM porbably full her head of lies about why you want to contact her), send her a email with all the conversations.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> According to his bishop she doesn't. My wife wrote her an apoligy letter, not sure if she got it though. I could meet her in person, I feel that would be unwise.


Did you see the letter? I doubt she sent it. Why would she? She may have written some tripe and given it to the OM to 'deliver' to his wife (via the trash can). 

Your reluctance to expose to the OMW is more proof to your wife that you are weak. 

From now on - be cool with your wife. Take care of yourself only. Go out - to the gym or as a community volunteer (not to bars). Show her you are YOU - you don't depend on anyone for your own fulfillment. 

You need to have the attitude that you want a life-partner who is willing to SHARE your life. Someone who has your values. Someone you WANT - not someone you NEED.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

manticore said:


> you are still not informing the most important person OMW, investigate her email if necessary (OM porbably full her head of lies about why you want to contact her), send her a email with all the conversations.


The POSOM might actually control his wife's email account.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> you are still not informing the most important person OMW, investigate her email if necessary (OM porbably full her head of lies about why you want to contact her), send her a email with all the conversations.


How can I find email?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> The POSOM might actually control his wife's email account.


So a face to face is the only way to be sure then?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Stiffen your spine. Go to her in person. Don't be emotional - tell her you have some important information to share with her. Be bold. Be strong. Take control of your own life!


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Did you see the letter? I doubt she sent it. Why would she? She may have written some tripe and given it to the OM to 'deliver' to his wife (via the trash can).


very true, at this stage you have to assume the worst of your wife, right now she is not the woman you think you married (maybe never was) you can't trust her, we have WW here in TAM and they have done all to assure their husbands that they will never cheat again, including full transparency policy, polygraph, IC, MC, it really looks like your wife is not remorseful and is just staying with you because OM will not leave his wife, did you really want her under those conditions?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> very true, at this stage you have to assume the worst of your wife, right now she is not the woman you think you married (maybe never was) you can't trust her, we have WW here in TAM and they have done all to assure their husbands that they will never cheat again, including full transparency policy, polygraph, IC, MC, it really looks like your wife is not remorseful and is just staying with you because OM will not leave his wife, did you really want her under those conditions?


No. I haven't gotten to that point where I can let her go. I know I am being week.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> So a face to face is the only way to be sure then?


maybe is the only option, print all the conversations and share them with her, if OMW is not a submissive woman in denial once she confronts OM he will probably dump your wife like a hot potato and maybe then she will come to her senses


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> So a face to face is the only way to be sure then?


*With a trusted female*. Maybe the Relief Society President, if you know her well enough?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> maybe is the only option, print all the conversations and share them with her, if OMW is not a submissive woman in denial once she confronts OM he will probably dump your wife like a hot potato and maybe then she will come to her senses


That will be costly there is 450 pages worth. If I get the nerve I will.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

There's an old TAM saying that I think is very apropos in your case: You have to be willing to risk ending your marriage to save it. Your wife knows you won't leave her, so why should she feel guilt or remorse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Instead of wasting your breath alternately berating and then pleading with your wife you should read these two books. Read them and see yourself in them. 


No More Mr Nice Guy: Robert A. Glover: 9780762415335: Amazon.com: Books

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Instead of wasting your breath alternately berating and then pleading with your wife you should read these two books. Read them and see yourself in them.
> 
> 
> No More Mr Nice Guy: Robert A. Glover: 9780762415335: Amazon.com: Books
> ...


Thanks


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> That will be costly there is 450 pages worth. If I get the nerve I will.


in that case print the more relevants.

the ones that include dates.
the ones that are explicit (lets go to this motel, I want to f*ck you like last night).
the ones that reveal personal data that show clearly that he is the one writing the mails and conversations and nobody is impersonating him.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> in that case print the more relevants.
> 
> the ones that include dates.
> the ones that are explicit (lets go to this motel, I want to f*ck you like last night).
> the ones that reveal personal data that show clearly that he is the one writing the mails and conversations and nobody is impersonating him.


I have that already prepared. I put that together for myself when I first got the conversations and emails. Its about 80 pages.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> There's an old TAM saying that I think is very apropos in your case: You have to be willing to risk ending your marriage to save it. Your wife knows you won't leave her, so why should she feel guilt or remorse?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


agree with BashfulBull he is bold but he is right, think, now that POSOM is out of the church activities, now that you know, now that he knows you think his wife is informed, now that you know his priest "scolded him", he probably will think you will let him alone, so he probably feels safe to keep the affair, your wife in the other hand have now (unlike before) all his media communication protected against you, so they can take the affair underground thinking nobody will bother them now

(I am not telling you this is the case, but as she has proved to still keep hiding secrets we have to assume the worst)


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> agree with BashfulBull he is bold but he is right, think, now that POSOM is out of the church activities, now that you know, now that he knows you think his wife is informed, now that you know his priest "scolded him", he probably will think you will let him alone, so he probably feels safe to keep the affair, your wife in the other hand have now (unlike before) all his media communication protected against you, so they can take the affair underground thinking nobody will bother them now
> 
> (I am not telling you this is the case, but as she has proved to still keep hiding secrets we have to assume the worst)


This worries me. Its been a month and a half since they "cut all contact." But the fact they promised to get together "if anything bad were to happen to me." still worries me. 
She promised that this is no longer an option. Talk is cheep though.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You say you feel weak. This is very, very common in situations like yours. Start to build yourself up. People have urged you to start the 180. This is surprisingly helpful in developing strength and self-confidence:

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> This worries me. Its been a month and a half since they "cut all contact." But the fact they promised to get together "if anything bad were to happen to me." still worries me.
> She promised that this is no longer an option. Talk is cheep though.


Yes. POSOM might take that as an invitation to arrange for 'something bad' to happen to you.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> This worries me. Its been a month and a half since they "cut all contact." But the fact they promised to get together "if anything bad were to happen to me." still worries me.
> She promised that this is no longer an option. Talk is cheep though.


If you believe they really "cut all contact" I've got a bridge to sell you.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> This worries me. Its been a month and a half since they "cut all contact." *But the fact they promised to get together "if anything bad were to happen to me*." still worries me.
> She promised that this is no longer an option. Talk is cheep though.


this is bullcrap, he just tell her this to have her hooked, and as any WW in the fog believed it.

BTW do you know what is the fog?, I advice you to inform yourself about it, is related with the dopamine released by the brain when we began new romatic relationships (including affairs) that is also a reason for you to not believe anything your wife says, and you have to asume from every suspicious action the worst of it.

I would like to keep being here reviewing your situation , but I have to go to a family event (you know for this dates), please read carefully everybody's advice many people have here years of experience with this situations like mattmatt and alte dame. some advices may seem agressive, but people also want you to wake up and see that you also have the option to not stand what your wife is doing to you (the disrespect and unremorseful aptitude) in the end is your decission and we are in this forum to support and advice OP's in their life choices


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You and your wife and POSOM's wife will all need STD tests. There's no proof he hasn't got a string of lovers.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> He has targeted your wife as he sees her as fair game as she is married to an apostate. He wants to take her from you and take her as a "spiritual bride" who he will keep secret from his own wife. He will then reactivate your wife as a faithful Mormon. Whilst having sex with her, of course.


Is this common?


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> The OM does not consider you married. You are no longer Mormons,* so he sees your marriage as not being valid.
> 
> He has targeted your wife as he sees her as fair game as she is married to an apostate. He wants to take her from you and take her as a "spiritual bride" who he will keep secret from his own wife. He will then reactivate your wife as a faithful Mormon. Whilst having sex with her, of course.
> 
> ...


Excuse me Matt but speaking as a practicing Mormon (all my life) what you have written is the biggest load of crap I have heard in awhile. I find it quite offensive to be honest with you. There is absolutely nothing valid in what you have written here at all other than conjecture of the most absurd kind.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

OP,

You have taken the correct steps. If the OM comes back to the picture let the Bishop and Stake Pres. know again. It sounds as if he is on probation at the very least if not disfellowshiped. If he continues to try to involve himself in your lives he would likely be excommunicated.

You were advised earlier not to look to Non LDS counselors and I would disagree. I know you no longer active but the problem is that counselors without an understanding of your religious conditioning are at an extreme disadvantage when trying to connect the dots. I would suggest you look up "The Mormon Therapist" online and on Facebook. She is very outside the box when it comes to dealing with all issues. She has helped me on occasion as well and I could not recommend anyone more highly for you and what you are dealing with. I wish you the best.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

You don’t debate someone into loving you. If you don’t respect yourself, why should she? 

You are young and don’t have kids. Let her go and wish her good luck with the other man. Ironically, that’s your best chance to ultimately be with her.

Let’s say that you can talk her into staying with you. I wouldn’t want to spend the rest of my life with a woman who gave up the perfect man (in her eyes) to be with me. I would never be good enough and end up shooting myself.

Give yourself a chance to find a woman who loves you.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Cloaked said:


> Wife: Doesn’t work, was *trying to pursue and acting career.* The affair started after my wife sent an inappropriate message to OM expressing regret about not being able to have a chance dating him after getting back from her mission. (While at collage they never dated and only only "hang out" with him on rare occasions while at collage.) It was a EA then on the second meeting turned to a PA.



She's an actress. She's practicing her craft on you. But look at her other actions. They, in post #16, are showing you that she does not regret her actions and is not deeply remorseful.


You should take your evidence you had prepared and presented to the OM's wife - face to face.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Cloaked, some background with me before giving my thoughts:
1. I am a practicing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon), however, I recognize that Mormonism isn't for everyone.

2. I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (licensed in CA and UT) and work primarily with married couple in various capacities.

I am familiar with the 180, and agree with some of its practices. The overall principle of the 180, IMO, is to work on building yourself up and not dwell on this garbage from the past. Is your wife still seeing the OM, who knows? What was the extent of the affair, again, who knows? Dwelling on these things is preventing you from moving forward and progressing with your own life.

If you feel you need to move from your wife, because of her actions, then get on with it. Work on improving yourself. Start exercising, eating right, and taking care of yourself. Spend time doing things that are productive and not just watching TV or playing games (don't know if this is what you are doing already or not). Get outside of yourself and volunteer at a local homeless shelter, library, etc. Don't let your wife and her behaviors bring you down. Stand up, move forward, and end this if necessary.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I have told my family and hers. I have informed his church. I have contacted the OM father becasue that is the only number I could find online. I have sent the OM family a facebook message informing them. I have tried contacting the OM wife through facebook but not in person. What else is there to do?


Get a divorce.

You have fought the good fight but despite your efforts she still went and "grinded on him"

Another poster mentioned disrespect. I'd put it much more strongly, I'd say it's contempt. To tell someone I'm going to be with my AP after you lay your heart on the line is simply callous.

And as callous as it is it did teach you a lesson. No amount of begging, or pleading ever wins them back, what it does do is lower your value in their eyes.

So what's the scenario with them? You let her go, are they ever going to be together properly? No. He's not going to leave his wife, what she will and ever will be is just a side piece.
Yes, the illicit meetings in car parks and hotels are exciting but over time they become tawdry and dirty. Her value in time will be lowered and as long as you don't beg and are resolute and strong, stick to your guns, you will raise your own value.

This is not so you can get her back mind you. This is for you. Your ego. Your self worth.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Cloaked said:


> - full acces to cell pone and no passwords, and you are free to look at it whenever you want.
> 
> Is ok with
> 
> ...


What is you gut sayin? Because based upon what your wife is saying and doing is not remorse. When my wife came clean in April, she has willingly and she did this herself, will tell me what she is doing and where she is at all times. If I happen to call her and she does not answer, she will call me back and tell me everything she was doing. I did not ask her to do this, but she knows how I feel and willingly assures me that she is not doing anything to jeapordize our M any longer.


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

Aren't mormons polygamous?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Update * * *
I have finally got in contact with the OM's wife. She was very upset at me for contacting her. Not sure if it is because of 1) the OM worked for the Mormon church and lost his job when I exposed the affair. 2) the OM convinced her that I must have been a bad husband for my wife to "fall into his arms." Or 3) she is mad at me because that is easier than being mad at him. I am more inclined to believe he lied since he said he was doing that in his Facebook conversations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Cloaked said:


> Update * * *
> I have finally got in contact with the OM's wife. She was very upset at me for contacting her. Not sure if it is because of 1) the OM worked for the Mormon church and lost his job when I exposed the affair. 2) the OM convinced her that I must have been a bad husband for my wife to "fall into his arms." Or 3) she is mad at me because that is easier than being mad at him. I am more inclined to believe he lied since he said he was doing that in his Facebook conversations.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you gave her the evidence, she'll need time to absorb the truth.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> Update * * *
> I have finally got in contact with the OM's wife. She was very upset at me for contacting her. Not sure if it is because of 1) the OM worked for the Mormon church and lost his job when I exposed the affair. 2) the OM convinced her that I must have been a bad husband for my wife to "fall into his arms." Or 3) she is mad at me because that is easier than being mad at him. I am more inclined to believe he lied since he said he was doing that in his Facebook conversations.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Still it was the moral and ethical thing to do. 

You did your due diligence. She's redirecting her anger towards her husband at you. I'm not surprised a Mormon wife would react that way. I grew up with Mormon kids and I know from experience that Mormon moms are fiercely protective of their marriages and children. 

Move on and don't contact her again. If your wife approaches you angry that you exposed the affair, without you having told her first, then that means she and the OM are still corresponsing, colluding, and conspiring.


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

Are you sure he wasn't trying to make a "sister wife" from your wife to expand his harem?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

aug said:


> If you gave her the evidence, she'll need time to absorb the truth.


She didn't want it. Not sure why. She may have already got it from her bishop
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

CouldItBeSo said:


> Are you sure he wasn't trying to make a "sister wife" from your wife to expand his harem?


Could be. I have never heard of that when I was Mormon so I am unsure what to think of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

CouldItBeSo said:


> Are you sure he wasn't trying to make a "sister wife" from your wife to expand his harem?


The polygamist part of Mormonism is mostly relegated to fringe sects. I would bet 99% of mormons do not practice it, see it as an outmoded and stupid practice, and from what I hear (in the Phoenix/ Mesa, AZ area) most bishops denounce it and try their best to supress it if they hear such activity is going on in their ward.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> The polygamist part of Mormonism is mostly relegated to fringe sects. I would bet 99% of mormons do not practice it, see it as an outmoded and stupid practice, and from what I hear (in the Phoenix/ Mesa, AZ area) most bishops denounce it and try their best to supress it if they hear such activity is going on in their ward.


When I was in high school I meet one of my dads work associates who had three wives and who had served a mission and was still in the mainstream LDS church. I asked my dad how he was not excommunicated and he said because the church didn't know. I am very confused by that. So I guess I have heard of the behavior but never knew the name of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> When I was in high school I meet one of my dads work associates who had three wives and who had served a mission and was still in the mainstream LDS church. I asked my dad how he was not excommunicated and he said because the church didn't know. I am very confused by that. So I guess I have heard of the behavior but never knew the name of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then the other two women were not really his wives because they would have had to have had an official church or temple wedding in order to be consiered real spiritual wives? And no mainstream church or bishop would have approved it. So really those women were just live-ins, nothing more than concubines.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Then the other two women were not really his wives because they would have had to have had an official church or temple wedding in order to be consiered real spiritual wives? And no mainstream church or bishop would have approved it. So really those women were just live-ins, nothing more than concubines.


They didn't live with him they all lived in different houses in different cities. I am not sure if they even knew about the other woman. I do know he had a temple marriage with one of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

If I may, let me break this down in the simplest of terms; religion aside.

Your wife betrayed you and you made a lot of mistakes when you found out. Mistakes that to her, make you appear weak and less attractive. She knows you fear divorce and is using that fear to avoid the consequences she deserves.

But you still have options;

1) Keep the status quo, live with your regrets and and an unremorseful wife. As miserable as you are now, it will get worse as those regrets and your anger festers.

2) Separate from her, divorce her and don't look back.

3) Implement the 180 to detach from her and talk to an attorney to start the divorce process. If she doesn't change her attitude and do *"every"* thing you ask her to do - including no contact letter, complete transparency, accountability for her time, accepting exposure, willingness to discuss the A at any time, become affectionate and sexually open to you; then refer back to option 2. 

If she does turn around, then you have a starting point for R, but only that. Keep option 2 in your back pocket until she displays it consistently.


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Then the other two women were not really his wives because they would have had to have had an official church or temple wedding in order to be consiered real spiritual wives? And no mainstream church or bishop would have approved it. So really those women were just live-ins, nothing more than concubines.


It doesn't really change the outcome. I don't think any mainstream Christian churches accept Mormons anyway? That's the case in Europe.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Konusb will get you on her comp.
Ezoom gps. Used by others with great success and it available at radio shack.

She wont huh? Lol you have me on your side. Resistance is futile.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

You backed everything up at least two places and one is offsite right?


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Incidentally this kind of stuff goes on in the Mormon Church more than you might suppose.


I am LDS too....people are always people and don't always have to obey the teachings. One thing I have learned is you do not have to be a Mormon, catholic, Methodist....if a person makes the decision to disobey everything they have been taught knowing it is wrong but does not care, then they simply made a decision. I have kept my faith!


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> *With a trusted female*. Maybe the Relief Society President, if you know her well enough?


NO---You do not get the RS involved!


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> You backed everything up at least two places and one is offsite right?


Yes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

this is an update to my story.

I will give a short summary of what's going on followed by a question.

I am currently struggling with my wife's betrayal. I don't feel like my wife is doing everything in her power to help me heal from this. When she asks. what do I need to do? I reference an article with a list of things the WS can do in order to help with the BS heal. She respond with. those are not your words you're letting someone else to tell you what to think. But then when I tell her what I need she will respond with.no matter what I do it will never be enough!

has anyone ever dealt with behavior like this?
_Posted via My Brian!!!_


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> this is an update to my story.
> 
> I will give a short summary of what's going on followed by a question.
> 
> ...


Yep, it's fairly common in false reconciliations. One of the keys to determining whether your in a real R or not is to ignore what she's saying and look at what she's doing. If she's saying all the right things but not doing what you need then she's just paying lip service to your efforts to R with her so she can say when you divorce that she tried but you were unreasonable.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> has anyone ever dealt with behavior like this?


Yes, cloaked; it's called "failing to demonstrate true remorse"; and you've got decisions to make about whether are not you will accept this.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Yep, it's fairly common in false reconciliations. One of the keys to determining whether your in a real R or not is to ignore what she's saying and look at what she's doing. If she's saying all the right things but not doing what you need then she's just paying lip service to your efforts to R with her so she can say when you divorce that she tried but you were unreasonable.


I figured. All my drive to try to fix things Died when I heard it said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She's not sorry. Go see a lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

I wanted to respond you thread, but moderator benned it, I guess you can create a new one asking the same but with diffrent words, obviously if you ask for married women bedding players you are gonna attrack them in the search of google

and I agree that nobody want that kind of people posting here on TAM

I was a player but never seek married women by the way

I think "the flood" and "whatif" did it, but for opportunitty not for routine


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Hey, Cloaked. You don't have a Temple marriage, do you? If not you can just divorce her legally and move on. Be happy you don't have kids with this woman.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> Is this common?


In the 19th century it resulted in violence. The "Celestial Wife" trick actually predates the LDS, though.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> I wanted to respond you thread, but moderator benned it, I guess you can create a new one asking the same but with diffrent words, obviously if you ask for married women bedding players you are gonna attrack them in the search of google
> 
> and I agree that nobody want that kind of people posting here on TAM
> 
> ...


Thank you for responding. Didn't realize the question would have attract unwanted attention. I have pondered the question since it was so easy for my wife to let her morals go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

I see that moderators don't let you post your question in the way you want, responding you, there are many players that say that yes married woman are easier to conquer, specially when they have a relationshion of 8 or more years with their partners, supposely at this point the infautuation that the woman feels for her husband is already over and the man at this stage of the marriage also fall in a comfort zone where they stop being as attentive with their wives as before (you know the excitement, the constant flirt, the beautiful words and compliments)

let me give you the insight of a man that persued married women but stay married with his own.

this was a post from a marital predator that was once in TAM trying to reform himself. (I doubt he changed):

"Findingmyway "

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

thank you for answering. Sadly I do not find this surprising. my wife even said had she been single she would never have gone this far with the other man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> thank you for answering. Sadly I do not find this surprising. *my wife even said had she been single she would never have gone this far with the other man.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This tells you all you need to know about the person she has become. 

People change for the worse, and often that change does not take long at all. Such change is the result of bad choices and the willingness to leave behind one's morals and prinicipals. This is what your wife did. 

Sadly, it is usually impossible to come back once a person chooses this path. That is why you need to bid your WW goodbye and let her go her way. She won't apologise and she won't change.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You're not sharing much Cloaked.

What's the plan? Are you going forward with divorce?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You're not sharing much Cloaked.
> 
> What's the plan? Are you going forward with divorce?


We are currently trying to reconcile. My wife has apologized on a few occasions but I always chalked it up to manipulation. 
We are currently going to marriage counseling. I do realize I am at fault for many things in our poor marriage, that my wife did bring up to me. Sadly just not on a way that would get me to change. 
I believe she is willing to work things out. Because she gave me full access to her conversations with him and on top of that wrote out a complete confession of guilt and got it notarized. She seems more attentive now and putting in more effort. 

I've been trying to get her to come on here to tell her story. Because I feel she could use the council.

It's disheartening to see how attention from anyone was more important to any amount of commitment.


Question concerning the players. How do you know someone is a player? Players will pretend to be good hearted people. how can you tell the difference?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Well you are better more forgiving man than I am Cloaked. I could not put up with such an attitude from a wife. 

As to how to tell players? You can't. They are good and they are master manipulators. All you can do is find a partner who won't succumb to one, and that is even harder.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> Question concerning the players. How do you know someone is a player? Players will pretend to be good hearted people. how can you tell the difference?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


don't obsses over this, there are many kind of players. not all are friendly and chatty, some are very arrogant and alpha type and that also Works, others use position and power (like bosses in companies), others money and material things.

but cloaked let me be honest with you here, your OM does not sound like a player, he sound like a man who had an affair with a woman that wanted a relationship with him since long time ago, in other words he didn't play your wife (I meean in the sense of a player who is used to do it and have game), he knew that your wife had a thing from him since long time ago.

unlike players he did not did what players do when they are found, players normally throw the WW under the buss, cut all type of communications with her, and go in damage control, obviously for the way things proceded he let himself vulnerable to you exposing him with shows his lack of experience in affairs, real players even teach ww how to not be detected or leave evidence of their affair to not have colateral damage.

also even if players exist I never accept it as excuse because mature married women are not innocent teenegers that don't know that engaging a emotional relationship behind his husband back is wrong, obviously they know, they can argument that they never expect to get to that level bla bla bla, but the true is that they knew it was wrong at that it can lead to sex in the end, is like someone who is about to use drugs for firts time, that person can say that he just want to taste it in a harmless way and then never do it again without consequences, but in the end he becomes an addict, he knew the risk was there everybody knows that drugs are dangeorus, ilegal and addictives, so why even risk doing soemthing wrogn if he knew the probable scenarios, is the same with women when engage emotional relationships with men outside the marriage.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> this is an update to my story.
> 
> I will give a short summary of what's going on followed by a question.
> 
> ...


Cheat on her back in the same cold manner she did you.

Then you guys will be able to speak.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> don't obsses over this, there are many kind of players. not all are friendly and chatty, some are very arrogant and alpha type and that also Works, others use position and power (like bosses in companies), others money and material things.
> 
> but cloaked let me be honest with you here, your OM does not sound like a player, he sound like a man who had an affair with a woman that wanted a relationship with him since long time ago, in other words he didn't play your wife (I meean in the sense of a player who is used to do it and have game), he knew that your wife had a thing from him since long time ago.
> 
> ...


I am not familiar with players or their tactics. All I know for certain is that this other man wanted to get into my wifes pants right from the very beginning. Which makes his behavior very suspicious to me. Despite in making this obvious right from the beginning my wife kept talking with him. He may not be a player. But he certainly wanted to take advantage of my wifes feelings for him. And my wife wanted to let him.

I have been trying to move past this. It just seems I have to do this alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I have been trying to move past this. It just seems I have to do this alone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


well, you have to take one decission alone with all the information tou have at hand (R or D), but you don't have to go for all the odyssey alone, once to you begin one of the two process fully comitted you will see that people here are very supportive.

if you choose R there are many users here that can advice you and PM you about their own situations and experiences, and the same will happen if you choose D.

I guess that many users are still digging in your sitatuation because you seem to be in the limbo, you say you want R, but at the same time you describe your wife as not fully commited or remorseful.

your questions about players make me think that you kind of want to prevent this to happen again, but is not you who have to ensure your wife don't cheat again, is your wife who have to stablish proper boundaries , of course if she just wants to rug sweep the whole situation this will not be possible.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> well, you have to take one decission alone with all the information tou have at hand (R or D), but you don't have to go for all the odyssey alone, once to you begin one of the two process fully comitted you will see that people here are very supportive.
> 
> if you choose R there are many users here that can advice you and PM you about their own situations and experiences, and the same will happen if you choose D.
> 
> ...


you hit the nail on the head. I do want to reconcile. And yes my wife seems to show little or no remorse and has been rug sweeping. I would like to have a guarantee that this will never happen again. I don't believe I will ever get anything close to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

There is more of a guarantee it will happen again. Especially with the way you have handled everything.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

illwill said:


> There is more of a guarantee it will happen again. Especially with the way you have handled everything.


I am intrigued. Could you be specific?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

He is being mean, trying to tell you that your WS have not had real consequences for her actions, therefore there is a posibility she will assimilate that even if she does cheat again you will forgive her again in the same way.

even if the way he said it is kind of sarcastic, he has point this happens alot for example elliot's case, his wife cheated once he forgive her without consequences and she cheated again:



Elliott said:


> Now here I am,...after a second affair having divorce shivers. I tell you, that divorce thing is a *****...it's like a double edged sword. Though you gain your "respect" and a million other things, it comes with a price. Everything has a price I guess.





Elliott said:


> That's exactly what I thought. She's plenty of times expressed how she can't handle the thought of me being with another woman. Last time this happened (years ago) my friends said cheat on her so she'll know exactly how it feels. And she'll never do it again. I didn't want to do that (even though they've done it to their wives and their wives have never cheated again).
> 
> I kind of regret taking the high road, especially since we just had our first child. So it looks like the general idea is just divorce. It seems like those in a open marriage are not able to educated me.



this is common for cheaters, not for nothing exists the saying "once a cheater always a cheater" there alot of users here that had gone through the same as "betrayed dad" and "hard to detach" (they also rug sweep with out consequences).

that is why here people insist alot in the fact that if the WS is not really remorseful and he/she does not have consequences, then most likely will cheat again.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

manticore said:


> He is being mean, trying to tell you that your WS have not had real consequences for her actions, therefore there is a posibility she will assimilate that even if she does cheat again you will forgive her again in the same way.
> 
> even if the way he said it is kind of sarcastic, he has point this happens alot for example elliot's case, his wife cheated once he forgive her without consequences and she cheated again:
> 
> ...


Makes sence. My wife has always been a woman of high morals till this. question for anyone who cares to answer.when people cheat is just a fluke or a true part of their character getting a chance to shine?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

manticore said:


> He is being mean, trying to tell you that your WS have not had real consequences for her actions, therefore there is a posibility she will assimilate that even if she does cheat again you will forgive her again in the same way.
> 
> even if the way he said it is kind of sarcastic, he has point this happens alot for example elliot's case, his wife cheated once he forgive her without consequences and she cheated again:
> 
> ...


Expain to me how im being mean. By your own admission i spoke the truth. There were no insults. 

And by the way, i dont need you to answer questions for me. 

So dont.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I am intrigued. Could you be specific?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Many (not all) cheaters dont change. And if they do its because the betrayed gives them consequences.

The kind of wayward spouse that would change on thier own, would not cheat to begin with.

And women dont respect men that need them, they respect men that want them, but are willing
to leave if betrayed.
z
Dealbreakers are sexy.

I meant no insult.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

illwill said:


> Expain to me how im being mean. By your own admission i spoke the truth. There were no insults.
> 
> And by the way, i dont need you to answer questions for me.
> 
> So dont.


Being mean does not necessary means using insults, there are gentler ways to transmit your message, (but I am not critizacing you I have also said things to users in a sarcastic or in a singular way ), anyway aren't you a Little sensitive for someone Nicknamed IllWill


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

illwill said:


> There is more of a guarantee it will happen again. Especially with the way you have handled everything.


THIS!!!
Being nice and understanding will get you phucked over big time.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

I dont throw softballs, you and the others can do that.

Thats the last thing most of the guys here need, when they are in a betrayed fog. 

How were your comments about me being mean not critizacing? Educate me.

And aren't you a little sensitive to have "man" in your nickname?

Just kidding.

And unlike most of you i dont take disrespect lightly. That is what my user name speaks to.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> you hit the nail on the head. I do want to reconcile. *And yes my wife seems to show little or no remorse and has been rug sweeping.* I would like to have a guarantee that this will never happen again. I don't believe I will ever get anything close to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can't reconcile with a spouse like this, you can only sweep it under the rug. It's practically a guarantee that she will cheat again, but even if she doesn't you will be in a perpetually troubled marriage. You will never have peace of mind knowing that you let her get away with treating you like this, knowing she doesn't feel bad about it. And if she lacks remorse and you don't impose consequences what possible reason would she have for changing her stripes? Why would she worry about cheating on you in the future if she thinks she can get away with it? The best you could hope for is that she would be compassionate enough to hide her future affairs better to avoid drama.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> You can't reconcile with a spouse like this, you can only sweep it under the rug. It's practically a guarantee that she will cheat again, but even if she doesn't you will be in a perpetually troubled marriage. You will never have peace of mind knowing that you let her get away with treating you like this, knowing she doesn't feel bad about it. And if she lacks remorse and you don't impose consequences what possible reason would she have for changing her stripes? Why would she worry about cheating on you in the future if she thinks she can get away with it? The best you could hope for is that she would be compassionate enough to hide her future affairs better to avoid drama.


How can she have remorse when she's chock full of teflon? She won't feel any of it.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Update
Things have not been going well. We stopped going to marriage counseling due to my wife falling for a checking scam. Lost a good sum of money.

Last night we got in a huge argument. I'm still upset about the affair. She still has feelings for the other man. Not a lot but enough were she defends him and looks at her time with him with joy. The argument started when she said that I'm just as much of a POS as the other man. And that the affair improved our marriage. Which set me off. Because if that's true we shouldn't be married anymore.

She feels my inability to move past the affair is verbally abusive. Maybe she's right. There's still a lot of anger and hate I have towards her for what she did.

She continues to bring up the fact that for most of our marriage I was emotionally closed off. I didn't know I was until we went to counseling. Apparently I have abandonment issues resulting from when my dad had an affair and left us. From what my mom has told me I became extremely closed off. Through all of my marriage I didn't know I was doing it. My wife took it as I didn't love her. I had to pay another woman to figure out I had this issue.

My wife is now demanding I do all the lifting in the relationship. I'm at a point where I am thinking of just going to counseling on my own and forgetting about this whole relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

You have an unremorseful WW. You will never successfully reconcile.

I was in a false R for 5yrs. Save yourself more pain down the road of getting cheated on again by divorcing her.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> *She still has feelings for the other man.*
> 
> *she defends him and looks at her time with him with joy.*
> 
> ...


cloaked,

All the above are vivid indications that your wife shows little or no remorse for what she did. As long as you accept this, nothing will change. You'll be saddled with a false R and/or she will cheat again.

Stop accepting this. You don't have to.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> My wife is now demanding I do all the lifting in the relationship. I'm at a point where I am thinking of just going to counseling on my own and forgetting about this whole relationship.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you *****ng kidding me.

Cloaked, is time for you to realize your own value, and stop letting your wife handling you as if she is gold and whatever she does is irrelevant because still you don't deserve her, you don't deserve these sh*t.

she don't have the right to demand you heavy lifting, if anything she should be sorry for you and supportive because the hurt and trauma that your father did so many years ago have scarred you until now, instead she is blaming her affair on you now, *damn*.

I am sure that if OM were the one hurt for infidelity of his parents she will be petting him and saying how she would do anything to heal him.

to make things worst you that are hardworking and loyal now have to stand her telling you, that you are as POS as the OM, no man, she shows no remorse at all.

she is still holding that promise that OM did her that if they were single they would be together, she wants the marriage to fail but not without making it looks as if she tried, she wants her OM who make her a fake bull crap promise of love, make her wish true, file for divorce already.

you are a loyal man, you are Young, you don't have kids with this cheating woman yet, don't ruin your life, you can begin a nice life with a loyal woman from scratch (without financially, family or legal bonds to your wife, as you don't have kids).

move on, and realize that your wife is not special and that you are not the one who have to try to be at her level, is the other way around.


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## ouchmytoe (Feb 11, 2014)

Cloaked,

I have just now read through this thread and have some thoughts that may help.

Let me first lay a foundation so the rest makes sense.

I suffer from OCD and ADHD. Over time, I have learned that my feelings do not reflect reality. I learned that emotions, while very important, are expressed through a system of chemicals and electrical impulses in our bodies. Some are good (they reflect reality) and should be embraced. I do believe that "men are that they might have joy." However, I also know, from sad experience, that a lot of emotions are crap.

A large part of the feelings that motivate someone to commit adultery are the crap kind. They are lies. They tell someone that they aren't happy with what they have and that happiness can only be found with another. They inhibit sound and honest judgement.

I take medication for my ADHD and OCD. It helps me keep a job, cultivate a strong marriage, and feel emotions that are grounded in reality. However, it's not actually the chemicals in the medications that produce this effect. The medications regulate my own, internal chemistry. It's my own, natural chemicals that help me do these good things. Does cocaine make you feel good? Actually, the cocaine causes the body to dump all its dopamine stores. This makes the user feel GREAT! It doesn't matter what awful circumstances the user is in, his/her emotions will not reflect that reality.

Unfortunately, someone can be completely drug free and still suffer from emotions that are lies. A lot of times, the only way to know if an emotion is true (i.e., reflects reality) is to see what becomes of it. It's like planting a seed and seeing what grows, the white fruit of happiness or the sour grapes of what-the-hell-was-I-thinking.

The key is to recognize this truth and learn how to change the emotions (i.e., chemical states) that are crap, and cultivate those that are true.

A lot of people cope by eating. Food will almost immediately change your body chemistry for better or worse. A lot of people take medication (hopefully for better) or dangerous drugs (usually for worse). Tobacco, alcohol, and caffeine are all things that people use to change how they feel.

Exercise is one of the best ways to change body chemistry. The chemicals that are used to give us feelings get stuck all throughout our bodies even after we think the emotions are past. When these chemicals build up, we tend to get very emotional. Some people work out some of these chemicals by breaking down and crying. Some lash out in anger. A lot of people hold it in and you can see that their stress level going through the roof! Why? Because it is physiological; there are physical symptoms.

There is another way to change how we feel, and in my opinion, though many may disagree, it is the best method of all. It is through humble prayer to a Heavenly Father that loves us more than we can comprehend. When we come to Him, confessing that we don't have all the answers, that we would like some help, that we're willing to change who we are so that we can have more of the feelings that are true and good, then He will help us.

Answer this: what would you be willing to do or how would you feel if your wife came to you, admitted that she needs help, expressed how sorry she is that your relationship is where it is, and said that she needs you? That only YOU can help her feel happy again? If you can imagine feeling even a glimmer of compassion, love, mercy, and joy at that moment, can you imagine how our Father in Heaven, who is defined by His ability to love and forgive, would feel? I'm talking about a man who allowed his child to be betrayed by his closest friends, spit on by those he loved, abused by strangers, and finally to be nailed to a board all because He wanted to give you the chance to be happy. And Jesus chose to experience all that, Himself, because of the same love. The Holy Ghost's job is to communicate THAT LOVE and compassion to you through the same chemical mechanisms that all your emotions use.

I know this works because He has helped me; I am alive today because of it. I know a lot of people will dismiss all this and that's okay. I know what I experienced, and I know how amazing things have become because I planted that seed. I'm still tending that seed because as I do, things keep getting better.

I'm willing to bet that you felt some unique feelings while you (if you) read through all this. What harm could come from thinking about those feelings? What would it cost to honestly test those feelings and these ideas, by yourself, to see if they reflect reality?

If you do, I'll bet that you will feel peace and see things as they really are--that your wife and this man are in for an eternity of hurt because THEY KNOW BETTER. You will feel sad, not so much because of your own pain, but because you can finally forgive them and love them, at least a little bit, as their Heavenly Father loves them, unconditionally.

Perhaps Amulek said it best:
Yea, cry unto him for mercy; for he is mighty to save. Yea, humble yourselves, and continue in prayer unto him. Cry unto him when ye are in your fields, yea, over all your flocks. Cry unto him in your houses, yea, over all your household, both morning, mid-day, and evening. Yea, cry unto him against the power of your enemies. Yea, cry unto him against the devil, who is an enemy to all righteousness. Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them. Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase. But this is not all; ye must pour out your souls in your closets, and your secret places, and in your wilderness. -Alma 34:18-26


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I totally agree that as far as your WW is concerned, that you are little more to her than "Plan B." The earlier statement from her OM that "they would be together if anything bad were ever to happen to you, seemingly holds true.That really makes me wonder if you have a "bullseye" on your back or not!

She has obviously lost respect for you and only has eyes for her OM. I honestly don't feel that any amount of work afforded toward R will do any good at all. To that end, I really think you should cut your loses and go ahead and immediately file for divorce!

You deserve so much more out of life than what shes affording you. And there's someone else out there who will!*


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Thank you for the comments and suggestions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cloaked,

You have no kids with this woman. Why would you wish to inflict her on your future offspring? If you get out now she can't stick you for child support.

You've also got a problem in that she is always going to cherish getting plowed by the guy. Deep down, this guy will always have a place. He will be a specter, always hovering over you, and you will always come up short in comparison.

Where do you think you fit into the male sexual hierarchy? Your wife thinks he is an Alpha or a Sigma for some reason. You come across here as a delta and your wife rates you as a gamma, most likely. There is a saying that a woman will trade five minutes of Alpha for five years of Beta. She doesn't think you can get another woman without paying for it, so she has no sexual interest in you. Right now, she's probably just getting off on your pain. Eventually, she'll start up again with her boyfriend or else find another guy that gets her engine going.

I've known a few guys that were long haul truckers. Way back in the 70's and they all got divorced. It's an honest job, but it's probably not the kind of job you want to have as a man with a wife younger than 40. Also, my truck driving friends all turned into fatasses and that didn't help in the sexual attraction department. If you're stuck on that job, get a woman co-driver.

What kind of shape are you in?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

@ Machiavelli
Where do you think you fit into the male sexual hierarchy?
I don't know and I don't care.
If you're asking about my looks. I'm a 7.2 in my pj's. When I get dressed up I am able to turn heads when entering the room.

When I first found out about the affair I had my wife show me the OM's Facebook profile. When I saw what he looked like her response was "looks aren't important to me." I put him on hotornot.com, he's a not.


What kind of shape are you in?

I have a body shape and it looks similar to this.
http://www.beauty-and-the-bath.com/image-files/muscular-man.jpg

I am leaving the trucking field. It was a temporary job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> \
> 
> I am leaving the trucking field. It was a temporary job.


I think that's a good idea. Now, leave your wife, unless you prefer a future filled with misery.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> Makes sence.* My wife has always been a woman of high morals till this*. question for anyone who cares to answer.when people cheat is just a fluke or a true part of their character getting a chance to shine?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That would make it even worse no?

How much must she think you of to compromise her high values to cheat on you like that.. and

If her moral compass was so compromised and/or she really loved you, her actions would have been absolutely devastating to her and what she did to you.

What do her actions/response show you?


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Cloaked is a grown man. Good luck pal.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

@ BobSimmons
What do her actions/response show you?

If it was me I would have been like holy f$*-!! what the Hells wrong with me?!!! And do everything I could to fix the problems that caused it. She acts more like she just wants a problem to go away without working on it. Maybe she's just reacting in her own way. One of her friends says she's completely remorseful and I should take her back. But this is the same friend who says being cheated on cannot cause PTSD and it's insulting to say it does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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