# Tell the other woman!



## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum. I am wrestling with something and would like feedback on whether what I am comtemplating is the right thing to do or just vindictive. 

Almost 2 years ago my wife had an affair. It was on/off for at least 6 months. I caught it 4X. To this day she claims it was an emotional(EA) affair. I don't have direct evidence it was physical but I saw emails that strongly suggested the physical part. Since the affair I have held on but close to the end of my rope with the marriage(just had 20 year anniversary). This is mainly due to the fact that she has given little effort to try to improve our marriage. Of course she blamed the state of our marriage as the reason(blame shifting) for having the affair.

I tried confronting the other man several times but he always hid from me. My question is this: For a while now I have thought about contacting his girlfriend of 12 years(and mother of their 2 children) about the affair. I feel she should know the type of person she has her wagon hooked up to. What kind of a role model he is going to be for their children. I've asked myself if I am being vindictive. And sometimes I think "so what?". But I also know if it was me I would want to know.

Thoughts and experiences are welcome. Thank you in advance.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

This is a no brainer. Of course you contact the girlfriend. By not saying anything to her you are sending a clear message to him that there are no consequences to him for having an affair with your wife.

The girlfriend has a right to know. Why are you even debating this?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Yes expose the POS. His gf deserves to know.

And if you need more info for yourself to get past this, then demand your wife take a polygraph, and tell her if she refuses then you will consider D and moving on because you can't see yourself forgiving and reconciling if you are not sure what you are forgiving.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

I did, it made me feel better not only because I think she deserved to know what was going on, but because I felt the OM should have to deal with some consequences from his actions and not feel as though he got a free pass.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Also, can't help but comment.

Not only is this POS a scumbag, he is a complete p***y. He has the nerve to screw with another man's wife and tear his family's happiness apart but doesn't have the b***s to own up to his actions, so he runs and hides.

Destroy this piece of trash.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

That's what I thought too! He is a total p***y! I was a wreck and I still tried to confront him. He stood me up three times and never answered his phone. Imagine that. I think it has taken me this long to get to the point of making consequences. On both sides. 

This guy walks away scot-free after wrecking my life? What kind of messed up logic is that?! I was worried that after 2 years it just looks vindictive but it's never too late to do the right thing.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Hi everyone, I am new to this forum. I am wrestling with something and would like feedback on whether what I am comtemplating is the right thing to do or just vindictive.
> 
> Almost 2 years ago my wife had an affair. It was on/off for at least 6 months. I caught it 4X. To this day she claims it was an emotional(EA) affair. I don't have direct evidence it was physical but I saw emails that strongly suggested the physical part. Since the affair I have held on but close to the end of my rope with the marriage(just had 20 year anniversary). This is mainly due to the fact that she has given little effort to try to improve our marriage. Of course she blamed the state of our marriage as the reason(blame shifting) for having the affair.
> 
> ...


Friend, it would appear you need more advice on dealing with your wife's lack of remorse than you do on exposing the POSOM.

Of course you expose him! Better late than never. Case closed. And if you didn't expose to her family and your family, that can be corrected too.

Then, when you're ready to talk about your apparent false R with her, we're here.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Of course you contact her,she may also have info you want to know.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes! You must tell the other BS.

Just like you would have wanted to know if she had found out about the affair first.

AND if she doesn't want to hear this bad news... it is STILL the right thing to do IMO.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Yes tell her. Wish there was a spouse to the OW for me to tell.


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## Baseballmom6 (Aug 15, 2012)

pollywog said:


> Yes tell her. Wish there was a spouse to the OW for me to tell.


The OW in my case wasn't married nor had a boyfriend. It didn't stop me from telling her Mother and her adult children and everybody else I came across. I told everyone what a POS home wrecker she was. Probably didn't matter to them but made me feel better. Plus I am sure her family now wonders how long it will be before my Ex does it to her.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> That's what I thought too! He is a total p***y! I was a wreck and I still tried to confront him. He stood me up three times and never answered his phone. Imagine that. I think it has taken me this long to get to the point of making consequences. On both sides.
> 
> This guy walks away scot-free after wrecking my life? What kind of messed up logic is that?! I was worried that after 2 years it just looks vindictive but it's never too late to do the right thing.


Are you going to tell her to help her or to punish him?

Cheaterville might be of help, here.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Can't hurt to try although I wouldn't without some concrete proof. You're not getting anywhere with your wife and it doesn't sound like the OM has the balls to try to stop you.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I wish someone had told me.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

russell28 said:


> I did, it made me feel better not only because I think she deserved to know what was going on, but because I felt the OM should have to deal with some consequences from his actions and not feel as though he got a free pass.


:iagree:

This is exactly how I feel. I never delivered consequences and strongly feel that there should be(no free pass) AND selfishly it will make me feel better to do it.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

badmemory said:


> Friend, it would appear you need more advice on dealing with your wife's lack of remorse than you do on exposing the POSOM.
> 
> Of course you expose him! Better late than never. Case closed. And if you didn't expose to her family and your family, that can be corrected too.
> 
> Then, when you're ready to talk about your apparent false R with her, we're here.


Agreed with the anger on the wife's lack of remorse. It pisses me off. I think this ties into the fact that I never made consequences for the actions. Which leads me to my current state of seriously considering ending the marriage.

Thoughts, advice, experiences on false reconciliation are appreciated. Because mine is very false. Wife's reasoning is she put in the majority of the effort during the first 18 years of her marriage and so she doesn't feel like she should have to now. BS in my book.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

If she's not remorseful there's nothing left to save here.

You know what you gotta do.

Sooner the better, life is short enough as it is and you want to flip the pages to the next chapter.

As far as telling the OMs girlfriend, that's up to you. Most well tell you she "deserves to know and it's the right thing to do" but it comes down to what you feel comfortable with and whether it might make your inevitable divorce more ugly.


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## blackdiamonds (Jun 26, 2013)

I'd say yes to telling the OM's girlfriend. She deserves to know the truth (especially being that she's in a similar position as you..the betrayed one).


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Agreed with the anger on the wife's lack of remorse. It pisses me off. I think this ties into the fact that I never made consequences for the actions. Which leads me to my current state of seriously considering ending the marriage.
> 
> Thoughts, advice, experiences on false reconciliation are appreciated. Because mine is very false. Wife's reasoning is she put in the majority of the effort during the first 18 years of her marriage and so she doesn't feel like she should have to now. BS in my book.


Yes, it's never too late to do the right thing.

There have been threads about would you want to know if your partner was cheating on you, just about 100% said they would want to know. She probably knows what kind of guy he is, but on the off chance that she was as in the dark about it as you, it would be a service to her to let her know. I think it's important to be kind, and calm, almost matter-of-fact, when you let her know. If she reacts defensively and challenges you, answer her questions, but just end the conversation if she starts verbally attacking you.

Use this not just for doing the right thing, not just for vengeance, but also for the state of your current marriage. Buy a few voice-activated recorders and some heavy-duty velcro, put one in her car and one in the house where she is likely to talk on the phone when you are not around. DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE THAT YOU ARE EXPOSING THE OTHER MAN TO HIS GIRLFRIEND, just do it. Afterward, he may to try to contact your wife, it will be good to know what she has to say about it. Heck, even if you don't expose, it would be good to hear how she talks about with you when you can't hear it. And based on what you posted about her attitude and behavior, it wouldn't surprise me if she STILL was cheating on you.

Next, as far as going back and getting a do-over, go ahead back and get one on your reconciliation. Look at some of the advice on these threads and use it. Tell your wife that you are not happy with the state of your marriage, and that you never recovered from her affair, and that you still don't believe her.

Before you end your marriage over it, especially if kids are involved, give your wife the chance to do the right thing one last time. In other words, tell her that you are divorcing her if she won't do the right thing. You can only control yourself, not her, so you can't make her do the right thing, but neither do you have to go on living this way with a cheating wife whose attitude is like hers. Tell her you KNOW it was physical, but she must now admit it and tell you the details you want to know, tell her you need her write out a timeline of the affair, and tell her there will be a polygraph. Tell her you need all passwords to phones, computers, social media, email, etc.

The reason she cheated was, because she wanted to, and she could.

The reason she continues to treat you poorly is because she wants to, and she can.

Well, you can't make her treat you well, but you don't have to put up with it, either.


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## broken30 (Apr 9, 2013)

I totally agree with every reply to this thread. 

I would want know...there's no way the BS is getting 100% of the relationship she has...or thinks she has...and rightfully deserves. i had a right to know. Instead I learned much later and resent the lost years taken from me because I didn't...

It doesn't matter what you call it. It's caring about another human being...that obviously both selfish waywards didn't.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> Yes, it's never too late to do the right thing.
> 
> Afterward, he may to try to contact your wife, it will be good to know what she has to say about it. Heck, even if you don't expose, it would be good to hear how she talks about with you when you can't hear it. And based on what you posted about her attitude and behavior, it wouldn't surprise me if she STILL was cheating on you.
> 
> ...


It's like you are in my head on this one. I am exactly at this point. Over the course of the last couple of months with talks with the wife I have realized she is not willing to put in any work into improving the marriage. 

She is coasting in this marriage and why shouldn't she? I allow it. I've never given consequences for her affair and have allowed the ongoing "limbo" to occur. She's getting all her needs met - why should she put any effort into changing anything? Her life rocks.

I am planning on telling her within the next week that I'm not accepting this state of marriage any longer. I'm willing to go in 100% to trying to save it but I am not doing it alone. She must jump in 100% as well. If she is not willing to do that I will file for divorce. I plan on giving her 2 days to decide. I plan on calling a marriage counselor or lawyer at the end of the 2 days.

I'm trying to decide if I should tell the girlfriend anyway OR if the wife decides she wants to try to save the marriage NOT telling the girlfriend?

Thoughts?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Thoughts, advice, experiences on false reconciliation are appreciated. Because mine is very false. *Wife's reasoning is she put in the majority of the effort during the first 18 years of her marriage and so she doesn't feel like she should have to now*. BS in my book.


It's simply unaceptable.


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## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

Satya said:


> Why give 2 days? If she can't give you an answer in less than 2 minutes I think you know the answer.


This.:iagree:

Two days just gives her a chance to find a loophole or some wiggle room for negotiation. She should know within minutes what she is willing to do. Don't let her leave you twisting in the wind for 2 days.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Expose no matter what.

His SO deserves to know so she can make her own informed life decisions.

Plus, this POS tore your life apart and then hid like a coward. The least you owe him is to disrupt his life in return by bringing some justice and consequences to him for his s****y behavior.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Satya said:


> Why give 2 days? If she can't give you an answer in less than 2 minutes I think you know the answer.


2 days is too long.

And my opinion would be to tell the other woman no matter what.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

I don't know why it feels like I'm being vindictive for telling the other woman. I think because it's been almost 2 years since it's stopped(I think anyway). I know they traded FB messages about 6 months ago. It feels like I'm being mean. Like I'm wanting to cause hurt for being hurt. Being honest I know that's part of it. Another part is to have consequences happen. And the 3rd part is I know I would want to know so from that angle it feels like the right thing to do. 

Maybe its the feeling of taking back power and getting self respect back.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

2yearsago said:


> I don't know why it feels like I'm being vindictive for telling the other woman. I think because it's been almost 2 years since it's stopped(I think anyway). I know they traded FB messages about 6 months ago. It feels like I'm being mean. Like I'm wanting to cause hurt for being hurt. Being honest I know that's part of it. Another part is to have consequences happen. And the 3rd part is I know I would want to know so from that angle it feels like the right thing to do.
> 
> Maybe its the feeling of taking back power and getting self respect back.


Then it's been 6 months not 2 years.

You are not being mean or vindictive. You are telling the truth to someone who has a right to know it.

I'm betting you are really afraid of your wife aren't you? You are afraid of upsetting her and so you walk on eggshells nit to piss her off.

Yes she won't like you telling the OMW because she still wants the OM to like her and want her.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

The mistake you made was not outing to the girlfriend right away. 

Tell her now. Also, your wife seems to be checking out of your marriage. That bull about you having to do all the work now is just garbage. If you read the newbies thread, you'll see that it is THE CHEATER that must do the heavy lifting, not the betrayed spouse.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Then it's been 6 months not 2 years.
> 
> You are not being mean or vindictive. You are telling the truth to someone who has a right to know it.
> 
> I'm betting you are really afraid of your wife aren't you? You are afraid of upsetting her and so you walk on eggshells nit to piss her off.


Shaggy - funny you say this. About 6 months ago my therapist recommended "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. Needless to say I totally identified with it. For a very long time I have been afraid of upsetting my wife. In the last couple of months I have lost much of that(not all though). I can force myself now to say things I know she's not gonna like but it's not easy. I'm getting there.

I am a recovering nice guy.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Okay. I have decided I am going to tell the other woman. 

I am also going give my wife one last chance to save the marriage. If she does not want to comply with my boundries(marriage counciling, etc) then I will file for divorce. I've allowed this for way too long. 

Any thoughts on timing of the two? Drop both bombs on the same day? Tell other woman and then see reaction?


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## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I don't know why it feels like I'm being vindictive for telling the other woman. *I think because it's been almost 2 years since it's stopped(I think anyway). I know they traded FB messages about 6 months ago.* It feels like I'm being mean. Like I'm wanting to cause hurt for being hurt. Being honest I know that's part of it. Another part is to have consequences happen. And the 3rd part is I know I would want to know so from that angle it feels like the right thing to do.
> 
> Maybe its the feeling of taking back power and getting self respect back.


So basically, they never really felt any guilt or remorse for their cheating. The ONLY way YOU will stop hurting and continue being hurt by your cheating wife is to blow up her affair to the OM's girlfriend NOW!. Once you've done this, sit back and watch the fireworks, while your wife will do one of two things:

*1.* Blame you for hurting her and driving her into the arms of another man. Continue to disrespect YOU, and show you NO real TRUE GUILT and TRUE REMORSE! She'll continue belittling you with more BS words.....

*OR*

*2.* She's finally see the TRUE hurt she has put you through and will beg for forgiveness and show you real TRUE GUILT and TRUE REMORSE!. It's at this point she'll see YOU AGAIN! The MAN she married, because right now you are plan B, the OM is plan A. 

*Inner happiness and a self-respect comes from within, you need to MAN-UP here and take charge for yourself FIRST!*


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## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> Okay. I have decided I am going to tell the other woman.
> 
> I am also going give my wife one last chance to save the marriage. If she does not want to comply with my boundries(marriage counciling, etc) then I will file for divorce. I've allowed this for way too long.
> 
> Any thoughts on timing of the two? Drop both bombs on the same day? Tell other woman and then see reaction?


Fantastic! Tell them nothing!!! Contact the OW FIRST! and watch their reactions. My last post to point 1 or 2.

Wait and see......


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Your wife has done little to nothing in 2 years following the affair to show that she wants to fix things.

What exactly do you expect to be different now?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Okay. I have decided I am going to tell the other woman.
> 
> I am also going give my wife one last chance to save the marriage. If she does not want to comply with my boundries(marriage counciling, etc) then I will file for divorce. I've allowed this for way too long.
> 
> Any thoughts on timing of the two? Drop both bombs on the same day? Tell other woman and then see reaction?


It doesn't make that much difference which you do first. IF the affair was ongoing, you would tell the other woman first, and not tell your wife a word about it. This would be done to disrupt the affair on the other man's end, so the other man would end the affair and throw your wife under the bus, so your wife would no longer consider the other man a viable option and be more willing to possibly reconcile, if you both were willing. That is not the case here, the affair is not ongoing (or so you think), and the only reason to tell the other man's wife at this point is to let the poor woman know that her husband was cheating on her two years ago, and also for some vengeance on the other man. 

The reason you don't tell your wife before you tell the other man's wife is because, if you do, you run the risk of your wife contacting the other man and warning him. Then he finds a way to intercept all calls, emails, letters, etc., or at least warn his wife to be ready to get a call from a crazy guy who just was released from the mental hospital because he has delusions that his wife cheats with everyone, and now he thinks that I cheated with his wife, just because he saw an email between us, but it's not true and he's crazy.

In this case, it doesn't make that much difference if you tell other man's wife first or have the discussion with your wife first, and it doesn't matter that much whether you tell your wife in advance you are going to tell the other man's wife, or you don't tell your wife in advance that you plan to contact other man's wife.

If you tell other man's wife first without letting your wife know in advance, you can expect other man to get back in touch with your wife to tell her what's happened and then you can expect your wife to be completely angry with you. Given what you've posted, how she has been able to manipulate you with her anger in the past, I would expect her to leave the home and threaten you with divorce over telling the other man's wife. Remember, she probably still has some feelings for the other man and maybe even values his welfare over yours, even now. She will be angry that you hurt him.

*If you do tell your wife about your plans to contact other man's wife, you should do it as part of your general talk about setting the marriage right. THIS IS THE OPTION I WOULD GO WITH NOW. You will get to see how invested your wife still is in the other man, whether she cares very much if you tell other man's wife, and whether she immediately calls the other man to try to warn him about what you are going to do. That would represent her putting other man's well-being over your well-being. You run the risk of her warning other man, but that is not a big deal at this point because the affair is long over.

First talk to your wife about improving the marriage and her being 100% committed to it. Tell her you are getting older and you have no intention of wasting the rest of your life in a stale, unhappy marriage. Tell her you love her and want to improve yourself and improve your marriage, and you want her to do the same - you want to get some passion, excitement, and romance back into your marriage. Don't tell her about contacting the other man's wife until you have her response on re-committing to and improving the marriage.*

Before you do any of this, though, you may want to set up some voice-activated recorders in your wife's car and in the house where she is likely to talk to other man, just to see if they re-establish contact and if you can get more details about whether or not the affair was ever physical (though I would suspect it was).

The way your wife has treated you, though, I would suspect that she still is in the affair with other man but is hiding it from you. I don't know how confident you are that the affair really is over and did not just go underground, but I'm assuming you are fairly certain the affair is over, your wife's terrible attitude and behavior notwithstanding.

The problem you face as a recovering Mr. Nice Guy is that your wife has become accustomed to you being a bit of a doormat, and she has become quite adept at being able to manipulate you using various techniques, such as yelling, anger, crying, etc. She may pull out all of the stops to get you back in her control. Because she is used to getting her way with you, she may not take your threat of divorce seriously until you actually file for divorce. Do not make any ultimatums you are not willing to enforce, because given your past history together, your wife probably will call your bluff.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

There is only 1 issue I have with Will Kane's advice, and that is that I would not tell your wife under any circumstances that you are going to let OM's wife know. Given her recent contact and total lack of remorse, this is not a good idea. She WILL warn him. And he WILL spin a story. This will not help the situation for her, which is the ultimate goal of this action, you want her to be aware if what a sh*t her husband is. Also, it is worth comparing notes if you can, if she will. She may have some evidence that you don't have that may help you.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I'd have divorce papers drawn up first before saying anything to your wife just so you have them to show her when you give your ultimatum. She's more inclined to take you seriously than you simply giving her a verbal threat she most likely won't believe that you'll back up. It doesn't sound like you've given her any reason to. And do not give her the heads up of your intention to have papers drawn up or to contact the OMW.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Jasel said:


> I'd have divorce papers drawn up first before saying anything to your wife just so you have them to show her when you give your ultimatum. She's more inclined to take you seriously than you simply giving her a verbal threat she most likely won't believe that you'll back up. It doesn't sound like you've given her any reason to. And do not give her the heads up of your intention to have papers drawn up or to contact the OMW.


I plan on having divorce papers completely ready. I will be at the point where I just have to pick up the phone to the lawyer and say "file" and he will drop papers at the courthouse and have her served. I have no intention of bluffing.

I have been all talk and no action before. This time I plan on being short on talk backed up with quick action.


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## blackdiamonds (Jun 26, 2013)

I agree with telling the OW before you tell your wife anything. With the fact that she doesn't intend on stopping the affair and isn't remorseful at all, I won't be surprised if she won't comply to your ultimatums.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I hope you told his girlfriend. How did that go?


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> I hope you told his girlfriend. How did that go?


I didn't yet. I've been trying to find a phone number or address as I don't have either. I would prefer calling her on the phone.

She has a FB profile. Right now my only option is to send a message to her through Facebook. Thoughts on this?

What's been the most effective? Like I said it seems like calling or stopping by the address would be best.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I didn't yet. I've been trying to find a phone number or address as I don't have either. I would prefer calling her on the phone.
> 
> She has a FB profile. Right now my only option is to send a message to her through Facebook. Thoughts on this?
> 
> What's been the most effective? Like I said it seems like calling or stopping by the address would be best.


I don't think how you contact her makes as much of a difference as how much proof you have to show her. 

Although I'd leave stopping by an address as a last resort when all other measures fail. If you can't find a phone number I'd do facebook. There's always a risk though the OM has access to her account/email which is why personally speaking to her either through the phone or face to face is better IMO. But you have to work with what you got.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

How you contact her is not as important. Offer a number or address if she wants to discuss.

Do not tip your wife off before you make contact. You will know if OM contacts your wife to complain.

Keep doing nothing and you can expect the same results you have achieved for the past 2 years. Take some action!

Good luck
WD


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I tracked the om's wife down and told her in person. Take proof with you. If you want to be very clever, do consults with lots of divorce lawyers, so that they are unable to take your wife on as a client.

You need to be clear when you talk to your wife. Think about what you need, what you will accept, and what you will not. Be prepared to follow through, or the talk will be less than useless.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> I don't know why it feels like I'm being vindictive for telling the other woman. I think because it's been almost 2 years since it's stopped(I think anyway). I know they traded FB messages about 6 months ago. It feels like I'm being mean. Like I'm wanting to cause hurt for being hurt. Being honest I know that's part of it. Another part is to have consequences happen. And the 3rd part is I know I would want to know so from that angle it feels like the right thing to do.
> 
> Maybe its the feeling of taking back power and getting self respect back.


Because you are a good person, and good people hate to cause others pain......

In this case, think of yourself as a Dr. and exposing the affair is like giving someone a flu shot...

It might hurt, but it will help her avoid a serious illness in the future.....

It might even keep her from coming down with scumbag fever.......

And do like the guys say, put a key logger on her computer, VAR in the car and by her favorite chair....Trust but verify.


Dr. woodchuck


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I don't know why it feels like I'm being vindictive for telling the other woman. I think because it's been almost 2 years since it's stopped(I think anyway). I know they traded FB messages about 6 months ago. It feels like I'm being mean. Like I'm wanting to cause hurt for being hurt. Being honest I know that's part of it. Another part is to have consequences happen. And the 3rd part is I know I would want to know so from that angle it feels like the right thing to do.
> 
> Maybe its the feeling of taking back power and getting self respect back.


You, my friend, are what is referred to here commonly as a Nice Guy. 

You don't feel that your needs can be (or should be) validated and met on their own merits, so you try to get them met by meeting the needs of others, and kinda-sorta hoping this person will see the awesomeness of your selfless (but not really) actions, and reward you by meeting your needs.

That sounds crazy, but it isn't if you really think it through.

Your wife cheated. You rug-swept it. You did so to show her how committed you were, I get that. But she faced no consequences, not because you were showing mercy, but because you were afraid of losing her. See the difference? In the case of granting mercy, you would be the power player. In rug-sweeping, SHE is in control. 

In showing her no consequences, you gave her absolutely no reason to respect you. Not as a man, not as a provider, and not as a person she must remain faithful to. In showing mercy and in being so eager to reconcile, you actually increased her disrespect of you. I hope that makes sense.

Now you debate doing what is right in terms of exposing a deceitful, horrendous man to an unsuspecting spouse, because of how it might "look" from the outside - you are again, afraid. 

There is no need to fear this decision. There is no need to fear being alone for a brief period of time. As long as there is, the POSOM gets to eat his candy AND yours, and your wife gets to coast along in a marriage she destroyed (while you get clean-up duty). 

One of the things Nice Guys mistakenly believe is that other people will have the same reactions of fear, shame, etc. that we feel. This isn't true. Part of your reluctance is because you ASSUME the OM's wife/gf will struggle with the same overwhelming fear and insecurity you did when you first found out. Don't project your insecurities onto her. She may respond completely differently than you did. You don't have the right to keep a person in the dark because of how it makes YOU feel.

Let me ask you another way: "What would a man with courage do?" (See? We all have it in us to be heroic if we just push past fear.)

I highly recommend the book by Dr. Glasser called "No More Mr. Nice Guy". (I am a recovering one, BTW).

Pick up the phone TODAY and let this poor woman know she's been living a lie.


----------



## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> You, my friend, are what is referred to here commonly as a Nice Guy.
> 
> You don't feel that your needs can be (or should be) validated and met on their own merits, so you try to get them met by meeting the needs of others, and kinda-sorta hoping this person will see the awesomeness of your selfless (but not really) actions, and reward you by meeting your needs.
> 
> ...


I have read the book(Dr. Glover I believe) and am living it more and more every day. I am a recovering nice guy.

I like the "What would a man with courage do" - absolutely right.

Man up time.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> I didn't yet. I've been trying to find a phone number or address as I don't have either. I would prefer calling her on the phone.
> 
> She has a FB profile. Right now my only option is to send a message to her through Facebook. Thoughts on this?
> 
> What's been the most effective? Like I said it seems like calling or stopping by the address would be best.


At first I couldn't find a phone number for the other BS but knew he had a FB profile and contacted him there first. The thing I've noticed with FB in messaging those who aren't your FB friend, the message goes to another inbox labeled 'Other' and it doesn't alert the FB user they have a message. 

In my case, I was able to find an email address for a small side business the other BS ran and emailed him there. He responded to my email in less than a day and found the FB message I sent him much later.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Hi everyone, I am new to this forum. I am wrestling with something and would like feedback on whether what I am comtemplating is the right thing to do or just vindictive.
> 
> Almost 2 years ago my wife had an affair. It was on/off for at least 6 months. I caught it 4X. To this day she claims it was an emotional(EA) affair. I don't have direct evidence it was physical but I saw emails that strongly suggested the physical part. Since the affair I have held on but close to the end of my rope with the marriage(just had 20 year anniversary). This is mainly due to the fact that she has given little effort to try to improve our marriage. Of course she blamed the state of our marriage as the reason(blame shifting) for having the affair.
> 
> ...


Late to this thread but I'm in the 'tell her' camp. dDay was last fall for me and I told the other BS as soon as I had proof I could provide him with. Other people came out of the woodwork later on to tell me what was going on but by then I obviously knew. However, additional information was always good to know.

In my situation the other BS finally kicked her out (she's a serial cheater), got her name off the house and all associated financial stuff, and moved out of the area after accepting an even better paying job (he already made good money). I don't talk to him anymore but have heard through the grapevine he's doing a lot better; hopefully the grapevine is accurate.

The OW moved in with one of her OM, the one she was truly focused on from what I have been told and understand. Thus far he won't marry her like she's been pushing for but they are expecting a baby this fall. This OM has no education or drive, works PT in a dead-end job, they live in a crappy apartment, and neither one of them make over 25K a year in an area where cost of living is pretty high. She works in a low-level clerical position and he in his dead-end job.

Telling the other BS is so they know what's going on in their life without their permission and more than likely without their knowledge. Don't worry about "revenge" because telling someone their spouse/SO is cheating on them is not revenge. WS's and the fallout of their own chosen behavior.....that fallout, totally their own doing, is the revenge! They do it all to themselves, nothing to do with you.

Good luck.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

FYI I was able to get the phone number. I figured out someone who knows her and said I wanted to get in touch with her and did this person have her number? As a matter of fact they did.....

Just made my life easier. I'm not on the fence any longer about contacting. It's the right thing to do, away we go......updates soon.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> FYI I was able to get the phone number. I figured out someone who knows her and said I wanted to get in touch with her and did this person have her number? As a matter of fact they did.....
> 
> Just made my life easier. I'm not on the fence any longer about contacting. It's the right thing to do, away we go......updates soon.


Good to hear it's a start.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> You, my friend, are what is referred to here commonly as a Nice Guy.
> 
> In showing her no consequences, you gave her absolutely no reason to respect you. Not as a man, not as a provider, and not as a person she must remain faithful to. In showing mercy and in being so eager to reconcile, you actually increased her disrespect of you. I hope that makes sense.
> 
> ...


The funny thing is I used to feel like I was being "mean" for telling the OM's significant other. The reality is any sane person would do this. It's letting someone know that their SO is a cheater. It's like I was accepting consequences for my wife's and the OM's actions! How crazy is that!


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

So what did she say?


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> The funny thing is I used to feel like I was being "mean" for telling the OM's significant other. The reality is any sane person would do this. It's letting someone know that their SO is a cheater. It's like I was accepting consequences for my wife's and the OM's actions! How crazy is that!


It's more common than you think. I spent the first month finding out about my wife's EA blaming myself completely.

Then the rage comes. That's when your dignity can't take any more abuse. That's when I said, "Bullsh*t" and called her on the carpet for it all. And that's when things finally started reconciling.

Get that call made and let us know.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

OP, did you call?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> OP, did you call?


Yeah, did you?

How'd it go?


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

I have not called yet. I think about it daily. I will call this week. I have held off this week because the W went to the first MC and made an appointment for the 2nd one on Monday.....4 days after the first. Given her history it will be a few MC sessions without any real work between the sessions then she will find something wrong with the counselor, etc. You never know. Anyway....


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

2yearsago said:


> I have not called yet. I think about it daily. I will call. I have held off this week because the W went to the first MC and made an appointment for the 2nd one on Monday.....4 days after the first. Truth: I don't think she is sincere at all, she is " hedging her bets", I don't think she is sincere in her efforts. Of course that may be cynicism raising it's ugly head.
> 
> I'm NOT WORRIED ABOUT HER BEING ANGRY. IDGAF. I do want to see how MC #2 plays out. IMO I need to finish "educating" everyone and blowing all this s**t up...all the way.
> 
> ...


What has the MC got to do with contacting the OM GF?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

AngryandUsed said:


> What has the MC got to do with contacting the OM GF?


Indeed, fear is what holds a Betrayed Spouse back from doing what needs to be done to protect the marriage. 

Stop protecting this predator and expose him . Your marriage will survive you exposing it will not survive if the OM is free and willing , his girlfriend knowing and watching him will help you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

I guess in my "nice guy" reasoning I thought I wouldn't want to disturb the MC progress if there was going to be any.

I know I need to not worry about how it affects my outcome, make the call to get it off my chest, and finish getting my self respect back. From there let the chips fall where they may with the possible R.

The OM GF deserves to know and I know this. It's the right thing to do for both the guys girlfriend and myself. Actions have consequences.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I guess in my "nice guy" reasoning I thought I wouldn't want to disturb the MC progress if there was going to be any.
> 
> I know I need to not worry about how it affects my outcome, make the call to get it off my chest, and finish getting my self respect back. From there let the chips fall where they may with the possible R.
> 
> The OM GF deserves to know and I know this. It's the right thing to do for both the guys girlfriend and myself. Actions have consequences.


OK lets backtrack. who is he to her and why after doing this has she been in contact with him via facebook? You realize having contact shows no remorse, total disrespect for you, and most likely also shows (based on thousands of others on TAM) that she at minimum is still having an EA with him. A good reason she is not working on your marriage is she has not let go of the other man. You need to expose this to the OM's girlfriend and lift the fog your wife and he are in.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> I have not called yet. I think about it daily. I will call this week. I have held off this week because the W went to the first MC and made an appointment for the 2nd one on Monday.....4 days after the first. Given her history it will be a few MC sessions without any real work between the sessions then she will find something wrong with the counselor, etc. You never know. Anyway....


You're rationalizing.

The longer you wait to expose, the less credible the exposure will be - and the more likely the OM has laid out a defense for it.

Take a deep breath, pick up the phone and call her - now.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Just to clarify a couple of points: It is not my goal to "blow up" the affair". Of course I don't know for sure but IMO the affair is over. I am doing it partially to blow out any remaining fog. Now there is no doubt some fog left because I never dealt with it initially. I may be kidding myself but don't think it's still happening. I am calling the OM GF for 3 reasons:

1. To finally deal with the situation. To face it and provide consequences(that I never provided before).
2. To tell the OM GF - she has a right to know.
3. To give me some of my self respect back and put it in the rear view mirror. I'm tired of dealing with it.

In regards to the false R - I have given my boundries to the W what is acceptable to try to save/rebuild the marriage. So far after a week she is within the boundries. I don't have an attachment to what happens - I am ready to move forward either way but it is time to move forward. It's on her to show continued effort. If she doesn't I am moving my life forward without her.

I am a recovering nice guy and tend to way overthink things(as nice guys are prone to do). I feel like I am taking the right steps for myself.

I'll let you what happens after I make the call.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> Just to clarify a couple of points: It is not my goal to "blow up" the affair". Of course I don't know for sure but IMO the affair is over. I am doing it partially to blow out any remaining fog. Now there is no doubt some fog left because I never dealt with it initially. I may be kidding myself but don't think it's still happening. I am calling the OM GF for 3 reasons:
> 
> 1. To finally deal with the situation. To face it and provide consequences(that I never provided before).
> 2. To tell the OM GF - she has a right to know.
> ...


why the contact with him 6 months ago?


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> why the contact with him 6 months ago?


What I saw said "YES! Text me soon!"

She said he had sent her a happy holidays message. She let it sit for a week then sent the same back.

Am I fooling myself?


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> What I saw said "YES! Text me soon!"
> 
> She said he had sent her a happy holidays message. She let it sit for a week then sent the same back.
> 
> Am I fooling myself?


yes. sorry, but yes. Pretend this was you that did this to her and she was you. What would still communicating to the other woman mean? She is aware that he is contacting her hoping to get back with her and every time she responds he is reeling her closer to the boat. His boat. If she was not biting his hook then you are winning the fight. her response to him is at bare minimum disrespectful and hurtful. Be very strong and make sure if she contacts him again in anyway that you are prepared to serve her some papers.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Every phone number I can find online is disconnected. I have nothing to go on other than a possible address and a FB profile. Any suggestions for exposing to OM's GF?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Every phone number I can find online is disconnected. I have nothing to go on other than a possible address and a FB profile. Any suggestions for exposing to OM's GF?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A PI could probably find her contact information in 30 minutes.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

*I don't think you will EVER run out of excuses!! Keep em coming*


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

You are not going to contact her because you know this will blow things up with you and your cheating wife. So you keep finding excuses to confront. Your wife so far has had no real consequences from you, just threats of them. So she'll "hide" in MC for a while to appease you a bit, take the A further underground (or start another one) while you sit on the side lines and fail to confront. She sees this as you being weak, and will take advantage of you as long as you let her.

As for the whole "nice guy" thing, OK, now you know you are, so stop using it as an excuse. The whole idea of that book is to open up your eyes to the fact. You have been thus informed.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Seriously guys?! Yes it took me a while to get to the place to do it, now back off on that.

I want to tell her. Are you gonna help me figure out another way or what? Paying a PI seems like overkill. FB messages don't work, they go to "other" and not as a direct message. 

I'm ready to tell her. I'm asking for help. If you've got ideas then let me know. If you don't then put a sock in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

2yearsago said:


> FYI I was able to get the phone number. I figured out someone who knows her and said I wanted to get in touch with her and did this person have her number? As a matter of fact they did.....
> 
> Just made my life easier. I'm not on the fence any longer about contacting. It's the right thing to do, away we go......updates soon.


Wait, you had the number. Now you don't. What's going on?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Paying a PI seems like overkill.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really? Seems like money well invested to me.


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## mtpromises (May 27, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> Seriously guys?! Yes it took me a while to get to the place to do it, now back off on that.
> 
> I want to tell her. Are you gonna help me figure out another way or what? Paying a PI seems like overkill. FB messages don't work, they go to "other" and not as a direct message.
> 
> ...


Make a new FB account. Put in a fake name and if OM doesn't know what you look like use your picture OR make it a female's profile in case she doesn't add random men to her friends list. Do whatever it takes to get the OW to add you so the message goes directly to her inbox. Then once you're on her page send her the message containing the necessary information about the affair and hit send. 

Honestly it's not rocket science and I'm not trying to be snarky. Making a whole new FB eliminates the chance of your friends and family members seeing all the drama. Good luck.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Thank you for the input. I'm not trying to make it rocket science. To me I think having the cell phone number is by far & away the best choice to contact directly. Remember the OM refused to meet me or pick up my calls. He totally dodged me. Any way that increases my chance of reaching her directly without him somehow finding out helps my odds of success.

I understand the tough love & appreciate it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

If you are going to use FB,be a woman. Download a model's picture and make her hot.

If you have time create other hot females and friend your person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Wait, you had the number. Now you don't. What's going on?


I got the number from someone who knows her but not well. The number turned out to be wrong when I called. I asked this person again for the number but they had learned why I had asked for the number. They did not want to be involved or for it to become known they were tied to this at all. So they would not provide me with the correct cell number.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mtpromises (May 27, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> Thank you for the input. I'm not trying to make it rocket science. To me I think having the cell phone number is by far & away the best choice to contact directly. Remember the OM refused to meet me or pick up my calls. He totally dodged me. Any way that increases my chance of reaching her directly without him somehow finding out helps my odds of success.
> 
> I understand the tough love & appreciate it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you make the profile female I doubt her boyfriend/spouse would intervene. You might want to stay on her FB friends list for a day or two and get a gauge on her posts. If they seem like her go ahead and send the message, but remember stalling like this is wasting precious time if you truly want to spill the beans.

Good luck.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

jim123 said:


> If you are going to use FB,be a woman. Download a model's picture and make her hot.
> 
> If you have time create other hot females and friend your person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok I have to ask. What is the difference if the profile is of a hot model? Is this for real?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Do you know where the OMW lives? Go there when the OM is at work.

Pay a internet service to find her phone no.

As to your WW and recovery. Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

Schedule a polygraph test for your WW.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I got the number from someone who knows her but not well. The number turned out to be wrong when I called. I asked this person again for the number but they had learned why I had asked for the number. They did not want to be involved or for it to become known they were tied to this at all. So they would not provide me with the correct cell number.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


interesting they learned why you wanted the number. wonder if they asked you wife why you called them for the number..
I highly expect the truth is it was physical and her inability to work on your marriage is due to her continuing the affair in some way or possibly she has moved on to another one. I would be very suspicious.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

If you can't get a number then go knock on her door or visit her at work if possible. You can do this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mtpromises said:


> If you make the profile female I doubt her boyfriend/spouse would intervene. You might want to stay on her FB friends list for a day or two and get a gauge on her posts. If they seem like her go ahead and send the message, but remember stalling like this is wasting precious time if you truly want to spill the beans.
> 
> Good luck.


OK, if you try this route OP, your explanation for friending her could be that you were her high school class mate, trying to reconnect. 

I can't remember any of my high school classmates. ("One" of the reasons for my moniker.) So, that wouldn't be unusual for someone not to remember.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> I got the number from someone who knows her but not well. The number turned out to be wrong when I called. I asked this person again for the number but they had learned why I had asked for the number. They did not want to be involved or for it to become known they were tied to this at all. So they would not provide me with the correct cell number.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What's the story behind that? How does this person know now?


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Through online searching today I found one other landline possibility that was disconnected like the other 4 I tried yesterday. 

Tomorrow I will call a PI and see how much they would charge to find a freaking cell phone number - you wouldn't think it would be that hard.

No response yet on the FB message but those things seem like a crapshoot unless you are friends.

Other than those options I'll go knock on the door and hopefully OM won't be there then. I do have an address that appears valid.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I got the number from someone who knows her but not well. The number turned out to be wrong when I called. I asked this person again for the number but they had learned why I had asked for the number. They did not want to be involved or for it to become known they were tied to this at all. So they would not provide me with the correct cell number.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Try calling it while changing the last digit in the number. Work it till you get the connection. They may have purposely mislead you. 

Just a thought.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I think your priority is forcing your wife to take a polly....

Set it up, give her ONE chance to reveal all, tell her any lies or omissions trigger an immediate divorce......

You may get that phone number too...

the woodchuck


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I don't know why you wasted your time going after the OM. That guy isn't your problem. Your problem is with the woman your living with who is just going through the motions being your wife. She offered herself to this OM and he obliged and took what was there. His problem is with his girlfriend/wife whatever. She has to deal with him. People here are telling you what you need to do, even hiring a PI if needed so do it. The longer you wait will only add to your problems. Out your wife and the OM. Serve her with the papers. Right now for her, life is good. She got laid, you did nothing and your the only one with the bag of dirty laundry around your neck.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Why cant you go directly to her and hand over copy of the evidences you have? Else she may think you as a jelous and paranoid husband.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Update boys & girls. I finally found my balls and called OM's wife. Turns out she knew about the affair and had been trying to let it go. Said her and OM were having a real hard time right now. Said OM threw in her face recently that she should remember he could be with my wife if he so chose. 

Then......OM called me 10 minutes later! Said he wanted me to know that they haven't seen each other in a couple of years but she emails him from time to time to catch up, see how things are. I ask when was the most recent time. He said about 2 months ago. I asked if he emailed her or she emailed him during these quick "catch ups". He said she always emails him.

See what you learn when you lose the nice guy, face your fear, and pick up the phone!

This happened late this afternoon. I'm still processing why he called me? I know it's because his wife told him I called her and it stirred s**t up. But why would he call me to tell me it's just an "innocent" email every couple of months?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> But why would he call me to tell me it's just an "innocent" email every couple of months?


He's hiding something and he hopes that he'll put your fears to rest and you won't do any digging. 

It's time to start digging.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

He wants you to know that it is your wife who is still chasing him. Just as he throws it in his wife's face that he could have your wife. He not so subtly let you know that he could still have your wife if he wanted. If she is the one reaching out to him. I would say he could have her as she is still pursuing him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do not talk to your wife about this and see if she brings it up.

I'd put a key logger on her computer and see if there is actually any communications.


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

So the affair never ended ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

movin on said:


> So the affair never ended ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BINGO!!! We have a winner!

So she has pobably been fishing and sending out feelers to affair partner all along. Kind'a makes you think that is went PA at some point, doin't it.

So, the ball is in your court "Mr Nice Guy". What are you gonna do?...

I'd say it's time to lay down the law. MY_Way_Or_The_Highway time. I'm guessing that she'll call your "bluff" at first, but when she realizes that Mr Wonderfull isn't leaving his girlfreind for an old fling, she'll start feeling you out to see what she has to say and promise to do to get you to stay.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

Was OMW able to fill you in on any details of the A?

Was it indeed a PA?

Also, I think POS is terrified of you digging around and finding out not only about the PA nature of this (especially if he has gaslighted his BW on this point) but also how much it has truly continued in the past 2 years.

I'm glad you finally see the power of exposure and taking a strong stand on this crap.

Keep it up when you confront your WW AND definitely schedule the poly now.

I think she will crack now that you can confront her with continued contact if you follow that up with a poly demand.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

This why even years after dday a key logger must be hidden on the PC to verify NC.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Your name on here is '2years ago'. Your WS stole those 2 years. I'm biased because I lost 4. I was miserable and my kids knew it though I tried to hide it. So in a way they lost 4 years too.
You posted 3 months ago, best thing you did and you have come a long way in a short time. :yay:
We WS were BRAINWASHED and that is why it's hard to see the reality. The brain is a complicated mechanism. 
Great you have told OMW. Don't you wish she had told you?
After D-day your WS
-kept lying because she was contact with OM.
-blameshifted
-emotionally abused you for 2 years and showed no remorse.
:redcard: :redcard: :redcard: 
Posters helped you snap out of that headspace. 
Now you can think with a clearer head. 
- Become the best snoop you can even if you are doing R. WS don't tell the truth easily. Satisfy yourself you are getting it.
- Try and find out if it was PA because you may then decide to leave. I did because I knew I couldn't keep playing that movie in my head. UGH! 
- Have the D papers ready and as posters have said, don't give her any time to think. A clear and immediate YES from her to do R. 
- She MUST answer any question you have. You will never get any peace of mind if she is vague and R will be pointless. :scratchhead: :banghead: Wave the D papers at her and say if you find out she is continuing to lie, then that's it. You have been a pushover for a long time and she knows it. Show her you are serious. :nono:
- Be prepared if you do R that it will very likely take a long time. Think carefully before you give her more years of your life. 
The main thing is GET YOUR LIFE BACK. :bounce::toast::woohoo: 
That's what all of us BS are trying to do. Get back the life we had before the person we loved stole it from us. What a waste!
Do you know how many of us women just love a 'nice guy'. 
You deserve a woman like that.
Go for it! :smthumbup:
PS As I said I am very biased due to my personal experience.
PPS Sorry, but I can never seem to keep my posts short.
And I think those little icons say it very well


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Thanks for all the responses. The wild thing is when I saw my wife tonight she was super sweet! So unlike her! It's strange, it was literally within a couple hours after I made the call she was texting the **** out of me....which is very abnormal. Then when I saw her she was all kisses & hugs. Again, not normal. So it's weird. Personally it seems like it's a big cover up. Hmmmmm...something is up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There is a chance that the OM make up lies about her emailing him. Did he offer you proof of the emails?

There is a chance that her sweetness tonight is a coincidence.

But still. Do not mention talking to them. Just make her feel safe and start watching.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> There is a chance that the OM make up lies about her emailing him. Did he offer you proof of the emails?
> 
> There is a chance that her sweetness tonight is a coincidence.
> 
> But still. Do not mention talking to them. Just make her feel safe and start watching.


:iagreelay it cool.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

You are standing up for yourself and FINALLY she is taking you seriously.
She's rattled heh! heh! Well done 2yearsago :smthumbup:
Same happened to me & the truth started coming out. 
All thanks to TAM, so keep coming back here even if it's going well. You need your advisors to keep you grounded.  

BUT. . . 
Wait and see how long this behaviour lasts. 
Don't act as if you are over the moon about her change towards you! 

Be VERY VERY careful.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Thanks for all the responses. The wild thing is when I saw my wife tonight she was super sweet! So unlike her! It's strange, it was literally within a couple hours after I made the call she was texting the **** out of me....which is very abnormal. Then when I saw her she was all kisses & hugs. Again, not normal. So it's weird. Personally it seems like it's a big cover up. Hmmmmm...something is up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seems pretty clear that NC has been broken yet again.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Thanks for all the responses. The wild thing is when I saw my wife tonight she was super sweet! So unlike her! It's strange, it was literally within a couple hours after I made the call she was texting the **** out of me....which is very abnormal. Then when I saw her she was all kisses & hugs. Again, not normal. So it's weird. Personally it seems like it's a big cover up. *Hmmmmm...something is up.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You better believe it. 

I don't think there has ever been NC between them...

Time to do some digging


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

The OM called you, and your wife became super sweet?

Of course something is up.

Time to make sure your finances are separated. No joint credit cards, loans, bank accounts, etc.

Time to prepare for a long cold financial winter. Do what squirrels do. Store/hide "food" in several places.

Research all you can about divorce in your state.


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Thanks for all the responses. The wild thing is when I saw my wife tonight she was super sweet! So unlike her! It's strange, it was literally within a couple hours after I made the call she was texting the **** out of me....which is very abnormal. Then when I saw her she was all kisses & hugs. Again, not normal. So it's weird. Personally it seems like it's a big cover up. Hmmmmm...something is up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do ya think !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Thanks for all the responses. The wild thing is when I saw my wife tonight she was super sweet! So unlike her! It's strange, it was literally within a couple hours after I made the call she was texting the **** out of me....which is very abnormal. Then when I saw her she was all kisses & hugs. Again, not normal. So it's weird. Personally it seems like it's a big cover up. Hmmmmm...something is up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As you point it out as a sudden change it's obvious she knows you know, therefore they contacted after your call (HOW?). It's not a wild thing or weird, it's predictable.

It also tells me that she never had the intention of rebuilding the marriage despite the last MC sessions ans still had the old attitude of coasting and refusing to put any effort into it. It's a mere reaction, damage control, not an epiphany and change of mindset (not rejection the notion it could come up later).


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

It's obvious they are still in contact.

Clearly OM contacted her and let her know I called his wife.

Obviously this is why she is all of a sudden being sweet and attentive. Makes me sick to my stomach. How can people do this crap? It's crazy.

Clearly she is continuing to coast in the marriage because it's the easiest thing for her and I have allowed it. 

Clearly I need to do what is best and healthiest for myself which is not be a backup plan and remove myself from the situation. 

I've allowed it for too long. I started getting my self respect back finally, let's keep the ball rolling.

Really glad I made the call and stirred the hornets nest. Time to keep it moving and get to a place where this s**t isn't in my life.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

Confront your WW ASAP with the continued contact. In fact, tell her you are sure POS is still talking to her since she miraculously started kissing your a** almost immediately after you spoke to OMW and then he called you in a panic.

Tell her she will take a poly graph and admit to ALL of the details of this s**t if she even wants a chance for you to stay in the M. 

Demand full transparency on communications and that any hint of continued contact with this POS will also lead straight to D.

Enough of this cake eating. Either she starts acting like a W, shows true remorse, and starts taking the necessary steps to fix this M, or you need to kick her to the curb HARD.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Acabado said:


> As you point it out as a sudden change it's obvious she knows you know, therefore they contacted after your call (HOW?). It's not a wild thing or weird, it's predictable.
> 
> It also tells me that she never had the intention of rebuilding the marriage despite the last MC sessions ans still had the old attitude of coasting and refusing to put any effort into it. It's a mere reaction, damage control, not an epiphany and change of mindset (not rejection the notion it could come up later).


EXACTLY. I had not posted this but I set the boundry of MC or divorce lawyer 2 months ago. She chose MC. A huge reason for me doing this was to see if she would engage to try to rebuild the marriage. She has shown up for the sessions and been open but little effort outside of the sessions. Which is pretty much what I expected.

There is no reason for me to do further digging. OM told me everything I needed to know yesterday. Funny thing is what he said was to save his own ass in front of his girlfriend of 12 years. That he hasn't "touched" my wife in 2 years, they only email every couple of months, etc. But in trying to save his own ass he told me what I needed to finally turn the page on this crappy last 2 + years. I know my wife has continued to stay in contact with him. And that it has been her doing the outreach. And I know I've never given consequences for that because I was scared or weak or both.

The part where he said that he tells his girlfriend "Don't forget I can always be with ______(my wife) says it all to me. She has been the one to stay in contact with him, he has all the power in that relationship. It's high time I took back the power in my situation. And this information completely gives me that power back. It feels great.

I don't feel sad or upset or pissed or angry or any of that. Truthfully I feel pretty good. I think it's because it is not unexpected and I feel okay about moving on with my life and taking care of myself. Losing the part of my life that is unhealthy. Hopefully that makes sense.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

You tried you best.
I'm glad to read your latest post, you sound relieved.

Hold on before things get better.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

A good friend of mine who has been through a similar situation suggested I wait a day or two before saying anything to the W. He said it would allow me to calm down and not be as much of an emotional d**k to her. Plus it would allow her to sweat it out for a few days.

His thought was that she obviously knows I contacted OM's W. Give a couple of days to see if my W says anything. If she doesn't then her head is still in the same place but IF she does say something to me then maybe she is progessing. If she doesn't say anything then she is still trying to hide s**t.

Really to me the only reason she would come clean to me was because she has been caught.....again. That's been her MO when this crap happens. 

I didn't say anything last night. Part of what he says makes sense but the other side of me thinks she's already hiding stuff(like staying in contact). I like the letting her sweat for a day or two but she's pretty good at compartmentalizing things. Plus when I keep stuff inside I wind up overthinking it, rationalizing, stalling, etc.

She is still in contact - that's the main thing.

The only reason the OM would call me back and try to convince me and his W that nothing is going on besides the occassional email is that there is more to the story. Why work so hard to convince me and his W otherwise? As most of us know when someone tells you something or admits to something there is almost ALWAYS more to the story. Plus it is further evidence to her 1/2 hearted effort in R.

He rubs it in his wife's face when they fight that he can pick up the phone and be with my wife if he so choose. That means my wife is the one staying in contact and do the fishing. Why would I want that in my life? I've finally got more respect than that.

Why wait? Just say it and get it out there. I've waited in the past and look where that's gotten me.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

When I confronted the XOM back in May, I got the truth from him. I talked to him for several days. He wanted his wife back, he knew he screwed up and could lose his family, daughter and son as well as his wife. The XOM had a lot to lose if he did not tell the truth.

OP, the OM in your life is playing you like a fiddle. Why would he tell you the truth? Think about it. He gains nothing by telling you the truth. He is flaunting the A in the face of his SO, saying he could be with your wife at any time. Typically, cheaters reveal what the truth is and you have to listen to what they say. I suspect, that your wife and the OM have been together physically all during this time. And the change in your wife is that she is playing you, heard from her lover and her lover said, don't worry I will always be there for you, or something along those lines. 

THe "I have not touched your wife in two years", I firmly believe is typical cheater speak.

But whether my speculative thinking is correct or not, is not the major issue. The major issue is that your wife has not done NC. And whether or not the OM is truthful that it is your wife who is doing the fishing, does not matter much. The main issue is that NC has been broken or never maintained.

If you think that the OM is being truthful to save his butt, then reread your posts. He could care a rat's arse about his SO. He isn't trying to save his butt at all. I suspect that he is trying to protect your wife from action that you will take if they are caught. That he does not want the drama of having to make a choice with whom he is with now and the relationship and the the way things are, and having to decide what to do with your wife if you dump her. Then what will the OM do? I think the big delima is this. You dump your wife, now the OM has to decide, because your ex wife will run to him and the OM doesn't want the drama.

If this was me. I would not confront. I would file, leave her in your past and let her go.

I would not contact the OM again, you are not getting good intel from him anyway.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2yearsago said:


> A good friend of mine who has been through a similar situation suggested I wait a day or two before saying anything to the W. He said it would allow me to calm down and not be as much of an emotional d**k to her. Plus it would allow her to sweat it out for a few days.
> 
> His thought was that she obviously knows I contacted OM's W. Give a couple of days to see if my W says anything. If she doesn't then her head is still in the same place but IF she does say something to me then maybe she is progessing. If she doesn't say anything then she is still trying to hide s**t.
> 
> ...


The waiting that is being suggested is not for a long time. A few days at most.. to compose yourself, to get more info if you feel you need it.

If you are just done and not interested in getting concrete proof, then go see an attorney and get things in order for a divorce. Do not tell her you are doing this. Just have her served.

What is there to talk about with her if you are done?


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

W brought it up last night. Well, first she brought up several other things to ask me about that she had questions about. Why was I taking testosterone, etc. Blame shifting? Knock me off my guard?

She said OM emailed her Sunday to say I had contacted his longtime gf and that it was "not cool". She asked why I did this.

I said GF has a right to know and I wanted to put the affair fully in the rear view mirror for me. I also told her that OM told me she emails him every month or two to check in and pretty much has steadily for the last 3 years. Her response?

HE has emailed her 3X this year. On her birthday, mothers day, and 6 weeks ago to tell her he had a torn ACL. I said why would you hide this? A: Because it's innocent emails, nothing to them. I said given what kind of s**t this caused it doesn't make any sense that you would hide it. A: Nothing is there.

I said every time I find something out there is always more there. Why should this time be any different? I also said why would OM call me 15 minutes after I called his gf to frantically tell me nothing was going on? Her response was he was probably trying to show his gf nothing is going on. 

She tried to shift blame to me by saying my call was what caused a huge fight with them. Do I enjoy upsetting other peoples lives? I said I was the messenger. It was not my actions that caused the blowup, it was her's and OM's. 

I said he emailed you Friday because your interactions with me changed signifcantly that night and during the weekend. She said "oh yeah, that's what I meant, not Sunday". She asked why I didn't bring it up sooner. I said because I wanted to calm down some plus I wanted to see if she was going to say anything.

I told her even if nothing else is going on she is still in contact with him and that was enough for me. I am done. Since she can't seem to give him up she can go be with him. I don't care anymore. I'm not a backup plan, go be with this guy.

BTW I also found out from his gf(who called me again on Monday to tell me more about their crappy situation) that he has had multiple affairs, both PA and EA, during the 12 years they have been together. He had s*x with a "friend" of theirs last Friday night after I called her. I told my wife this, that it sounds like she was one of many. I can only imagine how this made her feel.

She stated several times nothing is going on. She doesn't want to be with him(and let's be honest, who would?). I said well you can't seem to let it go so that speaks volumes.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> W brought it up last night. Well, first she brought up several other things to ask me about that she had questions about. Why was I taking testosterone, etc. Blame shifting? Knock me off my guard?
> 
> She said OM emailed her Sunday to say I had contacted his longtime gf and that it was "not cool". She asked why I did this.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> ***EDITED DOWN***
> *I told her even if nothing else is going on she is still in contact with him and that was enough for me. I am done. Since she can't seem to give him up she can go be with him. I don't care anymore. I'm not a backup plan, go be with this guy.*


So, does this mean that you are actually going to fill out and file D papers?

If you don't and back down from it, you'll look so weak in her eyes, it'll be a given that she stays in contact with the OM.

If she does end up breaking it off with this OM, there will be most likely be another OM down the line. She's obviously not worried about you leaving her over this.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> So, does this mean that you are actually going to fill out and file D papers?
> 
> If you don't and back down from it, you'll look so weak in her eyes, it'll be a given that she stays in contact with the OM.
> 
> If she does end up breaking it off with this OM, there will be most likely be another OM down the line. She's obviously not worried about you leaving her over this.


IMO the only chance of saving this and waking her up is to file now then step back and watch her. Maybe by telling her she wasn't the only one he was screwing around with that might make her think a little who knows.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

She's still hooked on this guy and I'm glad you finally know one way or the other.

Just remember she was the one who topedoed this marriage. Not you.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

sinnister said:


> She's still hooked on this guy and I'm glad you finally know one way or the other.
> 
> Just remember she was the one who topedoed this marriage. Not you.


Yes I need to remember this. I HATE that my thought process today is to be a nice guy. I see that she is hurting and my first reaction is to try to make her feel better. Arrrgghhh I hate that this is my gut instinct, I have to fight against it. My default setting is to try to make it better.....every time. Must. Fight. Instincts.

I need to just sit back and not do anything to "make it better". I know if I back down I am the ultimate doormat.


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## tdwal (Jul 28, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Yes I need to remember this. I HATE that my thought process today is to be a nice guy. I see that she is hurting and my first reaction is to try to make her feel better. Arrrgghhh I hate that this is my gut instinct, I have to fight against it. My default setting is to try to make it better.....every time. Must. Fight. Instincts.
> 
> I need to just sit back and not do anything to "make it better". I know if I back down I am the ultimate doormat.


You got it, for me it is trying to please people to keep them from abusing me when I was a child. Its engrained in you. Just keep consciences of it like you are and act on logic not emotion.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Know what I do/did? I still carry a copy of a few emails fWW sent to OM talking about their love, their last romp, crap like that. Any time I start to feel soft about the relationship, well, every morning and every evening I take that piece of paper out of my pocket and it reminds me. 

I was Plan B. Had he not dumped her, we would not be together today.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

you can still be that guy that tries to make her feel better but not about this stuff. You need to be a stone cold hard A$$. You need to file for D and then if he she begs tell her it is a polygraph or nothing.

At this point you will hear about the PA portions of the A. When my wife realized she was nothing more then a piece of tail for that POS she hurt but I did not comfort her.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

mahike said:


> At this point you will hear about the PA portions of the A. When my wife realized she was nothing more then a piece of tail for that POS she hurt but I did not comfort her.


I was trying to read my wife's face when I told her how many affairs this dude had - both EA and PA. If it hurt her she hid it pretty well. Either way it had to feel crappy knowing she was one in a herd, especially the way she poured her freaking heart out and became so emotionally submissive to him.

Why did I even think this? Her choice, she deals with it on her own.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Take a deep breath and then....just let her go.

She lies constantly and has never stopped contact with the OM. She wants her cake and eat it, too, but I would take the cake away. Let her have him if it's so important that she be in touch with him. She seems to think that the contact is fine because she says it's fine. She doesn't care what your sensibilities are.

Let her go. Let her find her bliss. You will probably be amazed at how much more peace and happiness you experience once you've made the decision to stop trying.


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## hereinthemidwest (Oct 7, 2010)

Sorry to hear this. Hiding emails...NOPE she is in love with him. He's a piece of **** who can't keep his **** in his pants. He's played your wife. Even if you divorced, he wont be with your wife. Your wife has to feel like a fool to believe this dude to begin with. 
Let her see what kind of a life she has alone. 

YOU DESERVE BETTER....FILE


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

We had a MC scheduled for yesterday morning, went ahead and kept it. This whole situation was discussed of course. W insists it was OM sending the emails and that they are benign. She takes responsibility for acknowledging them and not letting me know about them. She knows my boundry of no contact and understands she crossed it.

Very emotional and raw session for her. Lot of feeling disrespected by me for our 20 years together(seriously not sure where that is from), has felt like her life is not at all how she what she wanted, she has little self respect for herself, etc. Was tough to watch.

Here is something that her and I discussed. I would love to hear some opinions on this. She said a PRIME example of how I don't respect her is that I called the OW. In my wife's opinion all I did with that call was f**k up their life further and it was completely disrespectful to my wife. I told her I completely disagee. My call was simply the message. My W and the OM are the ones that chose the actions that caused the harm. I don't understand her thought process on this. Help me out!!!


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

She feels responsible for controlling you re the affair maybe? And you are supposed to cooperate in her efforts at damage control? (in her mind anyway)

My wife attempted to stop or dissuade me from contacting OMW. I knew that she knew where his house was. She'd given clues as the location. I had it narrowed down to a block or two on a particular street. When I made up my mind to expose, I asked her point blank for the address. I was going to get to OMW one way or the other, but she refused. Didn't matter, I found OMW at one of her workplaces within 2 or 3 days. OM blew up my wife's email a couple hours later, but since I had them coming to my phone too, I answered them all. He tried to blame me, the stupid ****. I'm not the one who violated my vows, or another marriage! I simply refused to take part in concealing his secrets any longer than I felt I had to (which was a lot longer than I should have, btw, expose, expose EXPOSE!!!!!)
I still resent my wife not disclosing and trying to protect the POS. She does feel I did the right thing now though.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

It is normal, my wife did everything she could to contact the OM and notify him of the sh!t storm coming his way. Too little too late. I got to her and he got his. My WW even had her friends calling me telling me what I did was wrong. Stupid stupid people covering for others butts.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> We had a MC scheduled for yesterday morning, went ahead and kept it. This whole situation was discussed of course. W insists it was OM sending the emails and that they are benign. She takes responsibility for acknowledging them and not letting me know about them. She knows my boundry of no contact and understands she crossed it.
> 
> Very emotional and raw session for her. Lot of feeling disrespected by me for our 20 years together(seriously not sure where that is from), has felt like her life is not at all how she what she wanted, she has little self respect for herself, etc. Was tough to watch.
> 
> Here is something that her and I discussed. I would love to hear some opinions on this. She said a PRIME example of how I don't respect her is that I called the OW. In my wife's opinion all I did with that call was f**k up their life further and it was completely disrespectful to my wife. I told her I completely disagee. My call was simply the message. My W and the OM are the ones that chose the actions that caused the harm. I don't understand her thought process on this. Help me out!!!


It is the duty of every BH to tell the OMW. Your WW is upset that with the OMW knowing there are another set of eyes now watching the OM. Which will make it harder for the OM to restart the affair.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Two years ago,

It took you so long to call OM's BS, but when you did the payoff was sweet. You need to keep the pressure on your wife. File for divorce. You can cancel later. She can act nice towards you when she feels that you are taking the cake away.

Keep doing it. Maybe she will fake loving you and eventually respect you and love you again... maybe.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Keep in mind when advising someone to file for divorce as a tactic that it can cost thousands of dollars in a retainer to get an attorney to do this.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

good point


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I am not clear, have you told her you are divorcing or still in reconciliation?

Here is a post many have found handy.

*Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.*


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Here is another post that can help with reconciliation. BTW read the two books linked to below in my signature as fast as possible.

You need to go over this with your wife, keep a close eye on her reactions

* Print this off and make your wife read it:

Read this:

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!*


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

2yearsago said:


> I was trying to read my wife's face when I told her how many affairs this dude had - both EA and PA. If it hurt her she hid it pretty well. Either way it had to feel crappy knowing she was one in a herd, especially the way she poured her freaking heart out and became so emotionally submissive to him.
> 
> Why did I even think this? Her choice, she deals with it on her own.


She probably didn't believe you. Tell her again, since she is just one of his current booty calls you both have to get tested for STDs and do it. Tell her the chances someone that sleeps around as much as him doesn't have herpes or something else are slim and none. If she is still insisting she hasn't been physical with him, laugh at her and tell her the OM admitted it, which he did with the Hadn't touched her for the last two years remark.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> In my wife's opinion all I did with that call was f**k up their life further and it was completely disrespectful to my wife.


As compared to having sex with her bf and betraying her partner of 20 years??

Get out of this immediately!! You have no chance!!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So you telling the truth to OM gf, was disrespectful to your wife?

How exactly does it even involve her, except to hurt her relationship with the OM?

she is personally invested in and feeling protective of the OM.

That's not a woman who is remorseful and committed to her marriage. That's a woman who is upset that you are messing with her relationship with the man she wants.


Btw, is OM up on cheaterville?

Why are you there fighting so hard to be her second choice?


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> So you telling the truth to OM gf, was disrespectful to your wife?
> 
> How exactly does it even involve her, except to hurt her relationship with the OM?
> 
> ...


She again stated that me making the call was disrespectful to her. I said no, it's you not taking responsibility for your actions. I was the messenger. You and OM did the actions that caused the harm. Step up and take responsibility FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS.

I then said what is disrespectful is you staying in contact with OM. Even if it is innocent, which I said I don't believe, having contact with OM while we were in last effort MC to save the marriage is completely disrespectful to me and this marriage. Your actions tell me this relationship is more important to you than me or this marriage. So go get it. I'm done.

I'm not anybodies back up plan. I'm done.

I've not put him up on cheaterville. I could tell his longtime gf(who threw him out a week ago btw when I called and stirred up trouble) of the cheaterville website and maybe she will want to put it up.

I think I've mentioned she told me the OM has cheated on her many times - both EA and PA.

What a crazy and interesting ride the last 5 days have been.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Well, you can take comfort in the fact that she is giving you clear and unmistakable signals on exactly where her loyalties lie, and can detach and move on in good conscience that you did all you could be expected to.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Just a quick update. After the initial blowup 3 weeks ago we talked about divorce, seperation, and a 3rd option that consisted of putting divorce talk on hold, each giving each other a list of "must haves" if we decided to stay together for another couple of months, and give the W a chance to assess if she could work on figuring out ways to start living a happier life without blowing up the 20 year marriage. This would be done without trying to improve the marriage.

Well for the first week or so the openness was there, the honestly, seriously felt like the true friendship was back. Then the open talks faded off, the being emotionally closed off popped back up, etc. Just faded away. About a week and a half ago I gave her my short list of must haves, she said she would get back to me soon. I got angry Saturday night, said she was dragging her feet on getting me her must have list. She said she could share her thoughts by Tuesday. Tuesday evening I asked her about it and she said "I don't like dealing with ultimatums". I was floored. I said we both agreed to look at this option. YOU are the one that gave me the time frame!! Crazy!!

I started doing my due diligence on quick divorce options. We are both on the same page in terms of doing what's best for our daughters. I feel she will work through this with me. I asked her yesterday if she saw any other options. She said she didn't really want to divorce but didn't know of any other options.

To me it's another instance of it simply not being worth the effort. I've done everything I know how. I got too fixated on this 3rd option, probably because I was fearing the inevitable. I know I've got to get this anchor off my neck. It's been dragging me down for 3 years. Time to drop the weight and move on. Put it in the rear view mirror.

Even though it's a big step I know inside me it's the right thing. It is so liberating to be taking some action.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How old are your children?

You have come a long way but you are still a nice guy. Stop asking your wife for stuff; it just empowers her. Push the divorce forward. Do the 180. 

Go to the gym. Lift weights. Do fun stuff with your daughters. Learn from Bagdon and GutPunch

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## bartendersfriend (Oct 14, 2013)

It was different in my case because my wife's OM (and his wife) were friends. I felt guilty for three weeks before I finally contacted her. I did not go into a lot of detail, but I had to make sure she knew and let her know that I was here for support. I held off on telling his wife because I am also a recovering nice guy. I read that book and realized that being "nice" was not helping me. I was harboring guilt and I had done nothing wrong! It did not help me feel better about the whole situation, but at least I don't feel guilty any more.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> How old are your children?
> 
> You have come a long way but you are still a nice guy. Stop asking your wife for stuff; it just empowers her. Push the divorce forward. Do the 180.
> 
> ...


Daughters are 10 & 14.

I am a recovering nice guy. I have made great strides this year but I do still fall back to old patterns from time to time.

Totally agree with and am doing the not asking her opinion on things. I am just doing it. Yesterday I started doing the research on the DIY divorce. She said "You just can't wait to divorce me". No comment from me. 

I am not waiting on her for any of it. I am fine with doing all of it myself. Moving in my direction.

Thanks for the input.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

bartendersfriend said:


> It was different in my case because my wife's OM (and his wife) were friends. I felt guilty for three weeks before I finally contacted her. I did not go into a lot of detail, but I had to make sure she knew and let her know that I was here for support. I held off on telling his wife because I am also a recovering nice guy. I read that book and realized that being "nice" was not helping me. I was harboring guilt and I had done nothing wrong! It did not help me feel better about the whole situation, but at least I don't feel guilty any more.


Dude I felt guilty for 2 years before I contacted her. Making that call was one of the most liberating things I have done(I did it 4 weeks ago). It took me a long time to wrap my head around the fact that it wasn't me as the messenger that was causing strife, it was my wife's and the OM's. And cause strife it did. It totally f***ed up the OM and girlfriends world. And re-arranged mine which I am fine with and grateful for. If finally unstuck me from limbo.

Even yesterday my wife said to me that it was extremely selfish, mean, and vindictive of me to call the OM's girlfriend. I said it wasn't my actions that caused it. She just doesn't see it as her and OM's actions that caused the mess in both sets of relationships. 

It's crazy to me that people can't take responsibility for their own actions.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Thought some folks would appreciate this. 

The OM's now former girlfriend contacted me recently to tell me that the OM read her a "novel" of an email my wife sent to him. There were many things in there - I am unstable, she doesn't understand why he would throw her under the bus(by telling me that they had still emailed this year) since they have been good friends for so long, she is upset that the former girlfriend and I have talked, etc. When I told my wife about this she vehemently denied it. As in she swore to my face she didn't. Then this weekend I found out she lied to me about the email because she "just wants out of the whole situation, she is tired of defending herself and doesn't want to be in the middle of the BS anymore".

I also found out that she feels that me, the OM and the OM's former girlfriend are getting off on hurting her. And that I am horrible for starting this whirlwind. She feels that the 3 of us are feeding on this debacle like we are getting some thing good out of it.

You can't make this stuff up. I am anxious to hear reactions to this. 

And yes, I have gotten started on divorce.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Thought some folks would appreciate this.
> 
> The OM's now former girlfriend contacted me recently to tell me that the OM read her a "novel" of an email my wife sent to him. There were many things in there - I am unstable, she doesn't understand why he would throw her under the bus(by telling me that they had still emailed this year) since they have been good friends for so long, she is upset that the former girlfriend and I have talked, etc. When I told my wife about this she vehemently denied it. As in she swore to my face she didn't. Then this weekend I found out she lied to me about the email because she "just wants out of the whole situation, she is tired of defending herself and doesn't want to be in the middle of the BS anymore".
> 
> ...


She is really in denial.

What a broken woman.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Narcissist all the way. It's all about her.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

2yearsago said:


> Daughters are 10 & 14.
> 
> I am a recovering nice guy. I have made great strides this year but I do still fall back to old patterns from time to time.
> 
> ...


She is rationalizing and trying to make you feel guilty. "See, if he had actually loved me, he wouldn't be rushed to divorc me. Which is the reason I had my affair. he did not love me. It is his fault"


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

2yearsago said:


> Thought some folks would appreciate this.
> 
> The OM's now former girlfriend contacted me recently to tell me that the OM read her a "novel" of an email my wife sent to him. There were many things in there - I am unstable, she doesn't understand why he would throw her under the bus(by telling me that they had still emailed this year) since they have been good friends for so long, she is upset that the former girlfriend and I have talked, etc. When I told my wife about this she vehemently denied it. As in she swore to my face she didn't. Then this weekend I found out she lied to me about the email because she "just wants out of the whole situation, she is tired of defending herself and doesn't want to be in the middle of the BS anymore".
> 
> ...


You are getting something good out of this though..




> she doesn't understand why he would throw her under the bus(by telling me that they had still emailed this year) since they have been good friends for so long,


The OM "betrayed" her again by revealing her mail to his gf who told you and she simply couldn't process it when you confronted her.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP, when you did finally confront her with the information that her previous OM stated she had been emailing him... she side stepped the question by claiming he was emailing her.

Sounds like they both were actively contacting each other.

She likely didn't respond to the allegations of his previous cheatings because she knew or suspected it already.

She thinks you calling OM's GF is disrespectful.... how does she view her getting involved with OM in the first place? Was that her way of honoring you and your marriage?

Continue as you have planned and take advantage of this gift you have- the chance to rebuild your life without a cheating, lying spouse!

Good luck
WD


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

"just wants out of the whole situation, she is tired of defending herself and doesn't want to be in the middle of the BS anymore".

This statement just says it all! Total denial. Total defensiveness. Attacking instead of accepting and moving forward. Still blaming others rather than taking responsibility and coming clean. An inability to come clean and make amends. Running away from it because that is easier.

I just got this one given to me last night! It made me laugh when I then read it here. I am also 2+ years post DD. In my opinion it is just pure defensive mode, sticking 2 fingers up to you, not wishing to carry on because there is so many lies in what she has given you that she can't be bothered with the stress of the being confronted with all HER bullsh*t any longer. 

Keep going with the divorce and standing firm. 

And what was the beautifully written quote again earlier in your thread? Was it "what would a man with courage do?" Please correct me if this is wrong, but I thought that was a wonderful quote.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Listen up my friend 

At this juncture you need to ask yourself some pertinent questions

Where do you want to be next April ?

Do you want to be posting in this thread 50 pages down the line (ala horizon) and still be - a good descriptive phrase this - 'pissing in the wind' 

You know enough to make your decision
You know enough and have experienced enough with this apology of a wife to go with the common sense that must be drilling into your head at every turn of this

Do you understand you are chasing something lingering in your heart that is actually no longer there?

Remorseful wayward spouses are just that - remorseful. Even most of those reconciliations don't work but some that do have the most basic remorse as a starting point. Without that there is nothing 

Will you ever get that from your cheating woman ? Ever ? Can she even spell the word?

I know it's not easy when love is lodged firmly in one's heart whilst the mind is fighting that with pure logic but from our our 'outside' point of view, this is one of the easiest decisions a man ever needed to make about a woman


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

2Yago, I have not read all responses but, I will comment on what you have asked. After 20 years, the connection, memories, pictures, family stuff. The amount of trust talks, yes trust talks. The long nights spent with your kids. All of these things destroyed and what's left is a whisper of once was. IMHO, now that I have said all that, I think you have a duty, of a good person, with morals coupled a sense of honor to at a minimum to tell the other woman. Myself, I would want to know, instead of being in the dark. No telling what disease is floating around. If this scumbag did this with your wife, it's probably a safe bet, he has done this before.

In reality, this is all easier said than done. I'm not in your shoes, I would refer to your best judgement based on the right situation. But then is there ever a really good time. Blow it up and then watch the fur fly. Not for kicks, but for absolution. Expose, so this human trash bag is put in the light, for all to see. NO FREE PASS! Let them have both barrels, sir. Maybe you can "R" I strongly doubt that it was just a EA. I think the worst in these situations and if I knew it was a PA, she would be gone and for my situation, she was. I didn't want to have anything more to do with her. Yes we 20 years, but no kids coupled only a few financial attachments made it easy for me. Once you have the kiddos in play, it's a little more problematic. Good luck to you sir, I hope I have helped.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Headspin said:


> At this juncture you need to ask yourself some pertinent questions
> 
> Where do you want to be next April ?
> 
> ...


Oh I know more than enough. I've seen enough of a false R by this point trust me. I was ready to pull the plug a month ago when I found out she was still in contact. Of course she says it's always him that sends an email, it was only on her birthday, mothers day, yada yada. Mysteriously the emails have been deleted. Then to see her lie yet again next week? Plus it's amazing that this is my fault somehow. Because I called the OM's GF this is the reason for this. Seriously? I am working on the D this week, already started.

The ongoing thought process that the OM, his now former GF, and I are somehow ganging up on her is incredible to me. Who thinks like this? That somehow the 3 of us are ganging up on her to try to hurt her. She said the 3 of us were a complete bunch of a**h***s.

The complete and total victim mentality is just unbelievable to me. At what point does someone actually step up and take responsibility for their own actions?


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> At what point does someone actually step up and take responsibility for their own actions?


Sounds like she never will. Which leaves you with few options if you want to have a normal life. 

Stay strong.


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## Jennifer871 (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm sorry for what you're going through


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Something I have learned through all of this. My own personal experiences as well as others that I have read.

People will either take responsibility for their actions or they will be victim. They will look at something they've done, say "Oh crap, I really screwed up. I've hurt my SO, I've divided the family, etc" or whatever. They will TAKE RESPONSBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND DO WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE IT RIGHT. Or they will say "It's not my fault. My marriage was bad. I've been unhappy. Etc". They let the hamster wheel of rationalization shift blame so it's not their fault.

People feel remorse for what they did or remorse for getting caught. It is a fundamental character difference. What kind of person do you want to put your trust in? Your future in?

Some people are very very good at fooling others. Wearing a mask to get what they want and cover their own a**es.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I'd like to have the trust back. Not to lose it in the first place. But ah, then we wouldn't have websites like this, would we? 

At least you're getting good perspective and that's the start to healing.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> People feel remorse for what they did or remorse for getting caught. It is a fundamental character difference. What kind of person do you want to put your trust in? Your future in?


Actually, it doesn't matter to me if they feel remorse for what they did or remorse for getting caught. The fact that they did it in the first place speaks volumes about them as human beings. No forgiveness from me, for sure. I wouldn't want to see her again, much less live with her.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Actually, it doesn't matter to me if they feel remorse for what they did or remorse for getting caught. The fact that they did it in the first place speaks volumes about them as human beings. No forgiveness from me, for sure. I wouldn't want to see her again, much less live with her.


And that right there is why many people can't get past an affair. It is a fundamental difference in character traits.

The BS realizes that there will NEVER be full trust again. They also realize that it is something that is needed for them to have a true meaningful long term relationship and that will never again be possible with their spouse. It doesn't matter if they've been married for 2 years or 25. That trust will never come back.

Sad but true. Some people can live with it, others can't. No right or wrong, everyone must make their own decision as is relevant for them to live their life the way they want to.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Sad but true. Some people can live with it, others can't. No right or wrong, everyone must make their own decision as is relevant for them to live their life the way they want to.


Strictly speaking for myself, and as a male (although I believe this also applies to women) the humiliation of knowing my spouse had a physical affair ... letting another man use her ... would be too much for me to over come. If I tried to make the marriage work after that, I wouldn't be able look at myself in the mirror in the every morning ... knowing that I let her get away with the humiliation without "getting even" in some form or another. I'm the kind of personality that would have to divorce and put some effort into getting even. But that's just me and my personality, however I will tell that to every BS here who asks, male or female. You can't get through infidelity being nice.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> As compared to having sex with her bf and betraying her partner of 20 years??
> 
> Get out of this immediately!! You have no chance!!


this...i have nothing further to add


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> Even yesterday my wife said to me that it was extremely selfish, mean, and vindictive of *HER to screw another dude*


fixed it for her...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

At this point I think you should send her here.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> At this point I think you should send her here.


Do you really think that's a good idea?


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