# Insert a little dread game into your marriage



## TheRock (Jul 12, 2013)

"If your wife (or girlfriend) left you tomorrow, would this be a significant setback in your sex life? Or would your sex life actually improve? If you can’t answer that second question with a resounding yes, then your marriage (or long-term relationship) is doomed."

This is the first paragraph of a post in a reddit that I stumbled upon a few months ago. It really hit a nerve in me because the answer was a astounding no. I think a lot of guys that are feeling frustrated with amount of sex like to think that "it we split up I would be getting so much tail." this is just not true for so many people. 

Since then I have opened my eyes to the truths of how games are played between men and women. Every guy on here who wonders why they were having sex every day at the start of the marriage but then are lucky to get it once a month has been played. Forget all of the excuses you hear... I am to tired, we have to get up early, the kids might walk in, its wednesday, haha that last one was actually one that I heard. Bottom line is that all these excuses are just lies... or partial lies. The truth is that your wife has no motivation to try and make an effort to keep you because she doesn't think you will be able to do any better. The excuses are just sugar coating for our sake. 

Insert dread game here.

I think that the mistake most people make is that they get to a point where they give an ultimatum.. "more sex or I am leaving." to me this like someone trying to be funny, and having to tell people that they are going to tell a joke. If you have to say it then it is not going to work. 

Since I read this post I immediately started making changes... started putting 100% of my energy into improving myself. **** my marriage, eventually I realized that I would be fine if my marriage didn't workout and that I should start preparing for that to happen. I started working out, started dressing better when I went to work and school, started being more social with girls especially in front of my wife. I started working towards being able to say that if my marriage failed I will walk out of it with tons of options..

Funny thing happened my wife started being less tired, she realized that having a lock on the door keeps the kids out. Sex went from being a once a month chore to something we rush home for. 

Its amazing how a little fear of competition can make such a big difference.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Is it really fear of competition, or did you perhaps just make yourself more attractive to your wife? They're not really the same thing.


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

TheRock said:


> "If your wife (or girlfriend) left you tomorrow, would this be a significant setback in your sex life? Or would your sex life actually improve? If you can’t answer that second question with a resounding yes, then your marriage (or long-term relationship) is doomed."
> 
> This is the first paragraph of a post in a reddit that I stumbled upon a few months ago. It really hit a nerve in me because the answer was a astounding no. I think a lot of guys that are feeling frustrated with amount of sex like to think that "it we split up I would be getting so much tail." this is just not true for so many people.
> 
> ...


A gross oversimplification, but I agree. If there is one thing you learn here it's 'change you and hope they follow'. And it's true and works most of the time. As long as you are striving to be the best you (and we've all slacked on that) it's amazing the dividends it pays. Painful lesson when we sit and seethe about what 'we've done' and the spouse has not and should appreciate it all dammit!. But when you let all that go and become the best you, it's surprising who follows. Also, all those others who are suddenly in the game. But that's passive aggressive and I'm not like that anymore. I swear. ;-)

Kudos to you OP. It's not an end game, you have to play everyday, no matter how tiring. 
cheers,
V(13)
Sometimes I get tired of all the effort, but it's worth it. Lesson learned.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> Is it really fear of competition, or did you perhaps just make yourself more attractive to your wife? They're not really the same thing.


They're not exactly the same thing, but if you read MMSLP you will find that they often have a very close relationship.


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

TheRock said:


> I think a lot of guys that are feeling frustrated with amount of sex like to think that "it we split up I would be getting so much tail." this is just not true for so many people.
> 
> Since then I have opened my eyes to the truths of how games are played between men and women.


1st thing is first -- Life & Relationships are _NOT_ a game to begin with. The bonds of family, friendship, and intimate lovers are all tied to each of us... Each person has to find the best relationship that works for them. 

Being frustrated about sex will be different for each and every couple. -Gosh Gooly Gee, `you found an approach that worked out for you... GREAT. -_- 
Now just because this "stategy" of being more attractive to your wife worked for you, do not equate that as meaning every guy out there (of whom is) having "issues" with his sex life in marriage , needs to do the same as you. 



TheRock said:


> The truth is that your wife has no motivation to try and make an effort to keep you because she doesn't think you will be able to do any better. The excuses are just sugar coating for our sake.
> 
> Insert dread game here.
> 
> Its amazing how a little fear of competition can make such a big difference.


Motivation to stay in a marriage!?!? -Everyday you have to make a choice to be "COMMITTED". You normally, also make "VOWS" at the beginning with a preacher in front of your family to drive this point home.

_Fear has NO PLACE IN A LOVING Relationship. Peroid. End of story... _
Now with that said, I do concede that the reality of the unknown future is a primative fear. I still think being open and honest would totally work better... b/c (IMHO) It worked out for you now, **BUT** I still don't think that good sex always means a good marriage. It makes up a fratcion of a good marriage. Yeah, if it is not there it feels like a larger part of your marraige. 

My point is that, there is more than just "games" to be played! You sound like you have a lot of maturing still ahead of you. Good Luck & glad you've found success (for now).


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Maybe it is on you! Maybe you had let yourself go since marriage, were not as attractive to your wife. Maybe when you got back into shape, dressed better you were more like the guy she married.

TBH it is off to walk around improving yourself simply to strike fear into the heart of a woman you supposedly love, yuk just yuk.

Maybe just be a better man because women like good men. Game playing is for people that have no substance and have to trick others into wanting to be with them.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I hate games too... I am who I am... you either like me the way I am, or you don't like me. People evolve... for better or for worse. If you don't like me because I evolved into something different, well, you can leave me. I'm not going to play games or make myself more attractive. Evolution is part of growing up. If you don't understand this, you are doomed...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> I started working out, started dressing better when I went to work and school, started being more social with girls especially in front of my wife. I started working towards being able to say that if my marriage failed I will walk out of it with tons of options..


Just be careful with this. Some women will take this to mean it's okay for them to pursue other men. Depends on the person.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm a wife and I'm the HD partner in our relationship. I'm also the one who has carried on taking care of myself, making sure I'm fit and healthy and look good. I do get looks and attention from other men, some of whom are more attractive than my husband. He is LD (we don't have sex from one month to the next a lot of the time) - he doesn't wash regularly, doesn't take care of his health, drinks too much, etc. I just fail to see how this is working for me - he's not in the least bit bothered that I may have better options because he knows that I made my marriage vows and expects me to fulfil those vows.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

doobie said:


> he doesn't wash regularly, doesn't take care of his health, drinks too much, etc. I just fail to see how this is working for me - he's not in the least bit bothered that I may have better options because he knows that I made my marriage vows and expects me to fulfil those vows.


What are you doing with him? :scratchhead:


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> What are you doing with him? :scratchhead:


Waiting until I can afford to leave.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

doobie said:


> Waiting until I can afford to leave.


Hopefully not long to go, then!


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Hopefully not long to go, then!


I think it may be quite a while. I have no savings and living with him is much more expensive than my single life was. I just need to get a load more work in and then build up some savings so that when I earn enough to be able to rent on my own I will have enough of an income coming in to live on. Always been able to live on very little as I'm not particularly extravagant - however husband spends money like it was going out of fashion, so saving is pretty difficult at the moment.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Doobie's case is an interesting case against the improve yourself theory. I've been following it with some trepidation. I'm seriously worried that it might turn out cheaper for her to leave earlier. 

Anyway that's a side note. About the games and fear. Intellectually I understand that women want security, so I should expect rejection at the idea of putting dread into her emotions. Emotionally I really don't understand it, and neither does The Rock. When men fear they fix it. We fear home invasion - We buy guns and get training. We fear job loss - we work harder, we compete. We fear we are not attractive to our wives - we work out, buy clothes and wash dishes. The trouble here is that we don't understand how to fix this problem. We play games because that is what we know. 

Now game playing, contrary to the above posted replies is not only a male thing. Women play games all the time. Especially younger women. The make him jealous game is usually first noticed by a guy in high school when he sees one of his buddies get all worked up over some female doing exactly what you are screaming at here. But that is not the only game. The next game I would like to talk about is the Prove how much you love me game. Guys play this game by making threats to divorce. Do you love me enough to fight to keep me. Girls play this game by taking away things he loves. Do you still love me if I don't wear make up. Do you still love me if I don't cook. Do you still love me if I withhold sex. Removing everything that interests him to prove that he loves her enough for her to feel secure. Because some day she is going to get old and that fear of what is natural is greater than her trust in her man. 

So whether or not games are an ideal component of a relationship, we would be fooling ourselves if we think they are not going to happen. There are serious consequences for insisting on disbelieving what is plainly right in front of your face.

MN


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## capncrunch (Aug 18, 2014)

TheRock said:


> "If your wife (or girlfriend) left you tomorrow, would this be a significant setback in your sex life? Or would your sex life actually improve? If you can’t answer that second question with a resounding yes, then your marriage (or long-term relationship) is doomed."


This is confusing. Just to clarify, the point is that if your marriage ended today, your sex life should improve, right? This assumes poor/infrequent sex. What if I'm fat and ugly but still get (to quote MMSLP) laid like tile? Also, numerous studies have shown that married people have, on average, more sex than singles. Granted, maybe they were counting celibate singles, and they were surely counting ugly singles, so I don't know.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

And the moral of the story is:

Present in yourself a well groomed, charming, lively, and attractive person instead and your woman will likely become more attracted toward you.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

capncrunch said:


> This is confusing. Just to clarify, the point is that if your marriage ended today, your sex life should improve, right? This assumes poor/infrequent sex. What if I'm fat and ugly but still get (to quote MMSLP) laid like tile? Also, numerous studies have shown that married people have, on average, more sex than singles. Granted, maybe they were counting celibate singles, and they were surely counting ugly singles, so I don't know.


I was single for most of my adult life and always knew that if I wanted sex I could go out and get it. That's not to say I did that often. However, being married means that I've taken a vow to only have sex with my husband. Since he seems to not want sex, my (fairly recent) marriage vows have left me in a situation where I cannot get sex without violating my vows. 

I'm a grown up and the last thing I want is to get involved in playing head games. I've told my husband how I feel and that this is having a detrimental effect on our marriage. That was nearly six months ago. He was visibly upset (in tears) at the though that our marriage would not last. However, since then, we have had sex only four times despite him promising to do something about the situation.

I don't want our marriage to be based on me nagging him to do the right thing (have sex more often, wash more often) as I feel that he should take responsibility for his own actions within the marriage - I'm trying to be his wife, not his mother. I've brought up my children and I don't want to feel as if I have another child on my hands. I want an equal relationships where we both take responsibility for our own actions. I am responsible enough to do my job (brining income into the marriage), keep myself fit, healthy, clean, etc so that having sex with me is not a distasteful proposition. 

When we married we moved to another country and I ploughed all my financial resources into the move. I now cannot afford to rent accommodation on my own so I'm pretty much stuck for the time being. If I were in my home country, yes I would be able to stay with family while I divorce and sort out finances, but I don't want to go back and I don't want to be a burden on family. I'm also pretty conscious of the fact that divorcing would leave him unable to afford to rent anywhere on his own (I'm the higher earner at present), so I'd be consigning both of us to poverty. 

Playing games and inviting a little dread into the situation would just serve to make things worse, I think, for both of us. Anyway, as I said, I just don't play these games. However, in my mind, my marriage is already over - we're still good friends and have a good time together on a daily basis - we just aren't lovers any more. Yes, I feel cheated by this - I wasn't expecting to be in a sexually dysfunctional marriage at this late stage in my life. I'm now fast getting to the stage where I think if he's not upholding his marriage vows (to love me), then why should I uphold my vow to be faithfull. I really see an open marriage as the most practical way forward for us - I just need to get him to see that too. He doesn't want me, so why would he object to me having sex with anybody else. I'm a physical and vital woman - my default mode is happiness (I find happiness in the smallest of things), but this marriage status quo is making me depressed. I'm beginning to not like myself because I'm so dissatisfied and miserable most of the time. I try to ignore the sex part as much as possible, but I'm so conscious of the fact that my whole marriage is a lie that it's difficult. And, yes, I do desperately want a sex life.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I think there is a line there when it comes to this topic. I think it's undeniable that people tend to be more careful around things that are fragile. If your partner fears losing you often times they will work harder to keep you. 

Many of these "gaming" strategies to enhance your marriage work on this dynamic. Personally, I don't like the idea of "gaming" to attract a spouse. It's a strategy designed to put fear into your partner. It seems cruel to me to manipulate a person with fear.

I do believe it makes sense to make yourself the most attractive person you can be; physically, emotionally, spiritually etc. This will make you attractive to other people as well as your spouse. For the most part people are attracted to the same things. When your partner observes other people being attracted to you it will remind them you are attractive and may even trigger a little competitiveness. 

That's why I say it's a fine line. The outcome of your spouse being more attracted to you should be the byproduct of your efforts to be the best you can be. I don't think you should intentionally be playing on their fears though.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Why did that whole opening salvo sound so much like an infomercial?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

> If your wife (or girlfriend) left you tomorrow, would this be a significant setback in your sex life? Or would your sex life actually improve?


My sex life couldn't be much better, so if my wife left it would indeed be a significant setback in my sex life and the rest of my life as well. However, I think I could find someone very good eventually, if this were to happen, but it would be extremely difficult to find someone as good or better.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think this is first level thinking. It is manipulative. Sometimes manipulation works. The results of your manipulation may be better than your status quo, so I don't think this is necessarily negative. 

But the higher level is to love yourself enough to want to improve yourself for you, regardless of the effect on others.

I believe a key part of getting to this place is to let go of the desire to control the minds of others. It is difficult enough to control your own mind. 

I am not saying be a chump and let others walk all over you. I am saying your own opinion of yourself should be your focus. 

When you make the opinion of others your focus, you put them on a pedestal.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> I think this is first level thinking. It is manipulative. Sometimes manipulation works. The results of your manipulation may be better than your status quo, so I don't think this is necessarily negative.
> 
> But the higher level is to love yourself enough to want to improve yourself for you, regardless of the effect on others.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup:


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## TheRock (Jul 12, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> So whether or not games are an ideal component of a relationship, we would be fooling ourselves if we think they are not going to happen. There are serious consequences for insisting on disbelieving what is plainly right in front of your face.
> 
> MN


I think you hit the nail right on the head here. It amuses me that a few of the people who replied that that there is no place for games in a marriage are on other threads advising someone to tell there husband that if he does more house work he will have a better chance of having more sex. How is that not manipulative.


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## TheRock (Jul 12, 2013)

Lila said:


> OP, I think your success with your wife had little to do with "Dread Game" and more to do with you improving your physical appearance. It's not rocket science.
> 
> With regards to Dread Game..... I caution it's a high risk move with the potential for catastrophic failure.
> 
> ...


See the thing is. Physically there is no difference between post wedding me, 3 or 4 months ago me, or present me. 

While I understand your thought that is a high risk move, a hail mary as you say, I don't think it has to be. 

If you get into a situation that is so bad that you have to tell your spouse "more sex or I am leaving" it is probably already to late. It was to late a long time ago. What I am talking about is more subtle and more a frame of mind then anything. I use to tell my wife how miserable my life would be with out her... (it makes me want to vomit thinking about it) I don't think that anymore. I am in this marriage because I choose to be and love my wife and our children.. but it not unconditional love.. there is no such thing as unconditional love between a husband wife. I am sure people will want to poke holes in that but it is the truth.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What is your question for the SIM section?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

doobie said:


> I think it may be quite a while. I have no savings and living with him is much more expensive than my single life was. I just need to get a load more work in and then build up some savings so that when I earn enough to be able to rent on my own I will have enough of an income coming in to live on. Always been able to live on very little as I'm not particularly extravagant - however husband spends money like it was going out of fashion, so saving is pretty difficult at the moment.


Safe deposit box is your friend.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I totally agree that romantic love is conditional and that unconditional love doesn't work in marriage unless romantic love is not desired by either spouse (which is very rare but does happen...some spouses are happy to have a family-type unconditional love and not have a sex or romantic life).

For most of us, we need romance and sex in marriage. Those things are dependent/conditional upon many factors to keep them alive.

I also agree that we all need to know that we are worthy of love and that our spouse is not the only person on earth who would love us. We also need to know we will be ok if "the worst" happened...because even if you are in love, spouses can die. Then you're alone. If you can't survive without your spouse, you will suffer even MORE in this case. No one should be *entirely* dependent upon their spouse. We all need to be able to stand on our own as adults.

However...dread game is just stupid.

It isn't a "game". Yes, both you *AND YOUR SPOUSE* would be highly desired out there in the dating pool. And even if you or your spouse were not in top shape, you or your spouse could quickly GET in top shape if needed (like if you became single again).

So trying to drum up jealousy about all the people who would want to date you as a GAME you use against your spouse is just stupid, sorry. Because your spouse has all the same options you do...and who cares? Who cares that other people would want to have sex with you or date you OR sex with your spouse or date your spouse? This knowledge helps you HOW?

Or did you actually think it only applies to you and not your spouse?

Surprise! It applies to you both.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

doobie said:


> I'm a wife and I'm the HD partner in our relationship. I'm also the one who has carried on taking care of myself, making sure I'm fit and healthy and look good. I do get looks and attention from other men, some of whom are more attractive than my husband. He is LD (we don't have sex from one month to the next a lot of the time) - he doesn't wash regularly, doesn't take care of his health, drinks too much, etc. I just fail to see how this is working for me - he's not in the least bit bothered that I may have better options because he knows that I made my marriage vows and expects me to fulfil those vows.


Yeah..what the... I have seen spouses go to pot. To them the project or conquest was getting married. Worked out. Lost weight. Hair done all the time. Once they bag the other it is a complete turn around. Happened to my BIL. After he was conquered she was done. Ballooned up. Stop bathing for days. Stopped brushing her teeth. House was a dump. BIL got fed up with it. Attempted to work it out. No dice. Divorce in process. 

Hope it all works out for you. Sheesh...it certainly does not look like it is working out for you.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

TheRock said:


> See the thing is. Physically there is no difference between post wedding me, 3 or 4 months ago me, or present me.
> 
> While I understand your thought that is a high risk move, a hail mary as you say, I don't think it has to be.
> 
> If you get into a situation that is so bad that you have to tell your spouse "more sex or I am leaving" it is probably already to late. It was to late a long time ago. What I am talking about is more subtle and more a frame of mind then anything. I use to tell my wife how miserable my life would be with out her... (it makes me want to vomit thinking about it) I don't think that anymore. I am in this marriage because I choose to be and love my wife and our children.. but it not unconditional love.. there is no such thing as unconditional love between a husband wife. I am sure people will want to poke holes in that but it is the truth.


This makes more sense. I think that you have became more assertive, more energetic and fun to be around, and it worked out great. Does it feel like you were in a coma for a while, now coming back to life? If so, it was you who were a problem, not your wife

Btw: when someone advise to do more dishes if they want sex it is not about manipulation or selling sex for dishwashing. It is about the fact that a lot of resentment ( which causes less sex) comes from the fact that women feel overwhelmed with household chores. Even if they work outside the house they do much more at home (I know there are exceptions, but this is about majority) - hence resentment, plus they are really more tired if they are still cleaning up kitchen at 10 pm and hubby is watching tv. Of course he will be ready for sex, she will be ready to take his place on the couch and steal the remote.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Everything in life is a game. Or, a better word, competition.

We compete for grades. We compete at job interviews. We compete for raises in salary. We compete for a mate. We compete for sex.

E erythung in life is a "what's in it for me?" statement.

You may as well know the rules if your playing the game. Might as well get good at strategy.

Otherwise, you loose.


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