# Advice or experience requested



## chuckn (Jun 4, 2009)

I should've done something years ago to end this marriage, but being "Mr. Nice Guy" and fear of financial repercussions kept me at bay - "cheaper to keep her." 

Basically, I'm not happy - haven't been for a long time. Many attempts to improve the marriage on my part (assuming additional chores around the house, better paying job changes (3 in past 8 yrs), more attention given to her wants/needs/requests, trips/romance, etc) have resulted in temporary fixes that lapsed back into the same response/routine received from her because it's just not enough. Latest arguments surround the topic of her "not feeling loved." I think I've done pretty much all I can to love this woman only to receive zero return on investment. 

I realize I can only change myself. I've done plenty so far to make me a better guy for it. Perhaps that's part of her issue - I'm no more the Nice Guy. I speak my mind, don't get caught up in her self-induced drama and do what I can to maintain my happiness for me. 

So here I sit, many years of arguments later. I'm pretty sure I'm done. I have little desire to continue this rollercoaster of a life. We simply are not compatible now, nor in hindsight, ever really were. It's been several weeks now without an adult conversation - bulk of the time I receive the silent treatment from her. Mr Nice Guy would have given in by now and kissed ass to set things "straight." Always it has been I that ended arguments by making up, compromising, doing more in an effort to make us better. I now refuse to buy-in to her critical/sarcastic/demeaning retorts when I ask a simple question or make a general comment in an effort to talk. I try to initiate conversation, but quickly end attempts when I hear the first ***** cross her lips. I'm indifferent. I want out.

I've contemplated divorce several times in the past. It’s always appeared easier to suck it up and drive on in an unhappy life just to keep the kids stable and us living financially comfortable. I am now very serious in divorcing yet want to know what I’m up against. I'm keenly aware this is both our faults, but as I move forward and request a divorce and file, I know I’ll immediately become the bad guy to her and everyone we know. On the surface we are "the perfect couple." I expect her to fight tooth and nail to "take me for everything I have" – having mentioned that along with "you'll loose everything". I imagine she hasn't the balls to make a move either since it's in her best interest financially to have me pay the bills and make my life miserable.

My assumptions are that I would be obligated to pay alimony as she currently has little ability to support herself (low income job); I would of course pay child support; she would be awarded primary custody as typically mothers are. From that, I assume, she’ll be awarded the family home at lease temporarily while separated prior to finalization of divorce and division of assets. 

These are the issues that have stopped me in the past from making a move. I see now that waiting this long, been married 16 yrs, has surely sweetened the pot for her as she’ll also receive ½ of all my pensions to boot.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Welcome to my world! I'm a few months down the road from where you are so I'll try to offer advice as I'm able.

First, do you feel you are definitely done? Or do you have enough love left for your W that you're willing to make one more all out effort to fix things?

The first book I read when I was where you are now was "Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay". An excellent book that really helped me think through my feelings and our relationship.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You sound done. If BOTH of you would be willing to work on the relationship would you consider staying? If yes, state that to your wife and get some help as a couple. If no, I've already tried then when your kids are away.....tell her the truth. Try to figure out things amicably if possible.

Remain as calm as you can, even if she blows up. You remaining calm is key.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

i'm confident, based on what you've written, that you will be immeasurably happier after the divorce.

poorer, but happy.

and i'll take happy over money any day of the week.

well, both is nice too.

if you decide to divorce, keep in mind that you have developed and finely tuned some corrosive behaviour patterns and you need to spend some time being single and working on you. a good rule of thumb is to spend at least a solid year not in a serious relationship.

on a more machiavellian note: many states don't allow an attorney with a conflict of interest in either party to represent said party. this means if you were to set up an appointment with, say, the top ten divorce attorneys in your area and discuss your divorce, they could not represent your wife because of conflict of interest.

if you wife is really going to come at you, this could slow her down. if it is the law in your state, that is.

if you're willing to give the marriage one more try but are absolutely certain you're ready to walk if things don't work out, then set up counselling for you and her and you alone if she chooses not to, tell your wife you're giving the marriage six months and then you're going to file.

she'll either step up or she won't, and go to therapy or not.

but after six months you'll have:

1)complete certainty you have done all you can to save your marriage and so can walk away at peace with yourself, and

2)six months of counseling to start you down the road of changing the toxic habits you've developed in this marriage and so are that much closer to a new, truly happy you and relatgionship.


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## chuckn (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks for the welcome and open ears. This is the most difficult personal challenge I've ever had to face, to include multiple combat tours in the military, hence my hesitance to tackle it over the years. Many times I sat and wondered if it was just me being an ass and incapable of dealing with marriage. Ultimately leading me back to the thought that it's part of the hard work required to obtain success in a relationship. Which in turn, led me to remain.

However, no matter how many lapses there are and "good" times cycle through, eventually we wind up in the same situation where I'm left resenting ever marrying in the first place (I recall now several red flags that served to warn me). I'm not a grudge holder, but I hang on to that resentment as each conflict stems from her blaming me for our problems, me for not proving/showing my love, me for trying to enjoy a career, friends, activities - basically, it's all my fault. 

All of which perplexes me beyond reason as I'm the main bread winner; have over the years consistently improved myself through education and career changes to please and provide; conceded, compromised and conformed in order to fit her mold of what she wants/needs; and even lost several friendships that apparently weren't compatible with her likes. All the while as I make the effort to improve and change (primarily for her, but personally as well - if acceptable to her), she remained basically the same. 

No doubt the decision to divorce will be a tough one - along with the fallout to follow - I got that part loud and clear. What I'm really looking for is advice, examples, experiences, stories, coping methods, etc from those in similar situations and what the results were. I fear, as I'm sure many have, that I'll push the "easy" button to happiness - initiate separation and divorce - only to wake up one day in a run down apartment eating Raman noodles 3x's a day, paying out my ass to support her, not seeing my kids as often as I do now - essentially living to provide her my money. Regretting the decision in lieu of receiving the personal happiness and living a more fulfilling life that I'm expecting. Because I have no doubt that once the initial shock is over and the process is in full force, her attitude will change to focus on her "happiness" which would zero in first on taking me to the bank and secondly doing everything possible to make me look the fool. Oscar winning performances in public and to family/friends of what a great catch, wonderful woman and caretaker she is and what a jackass I am for giving it all up. 

I've witnessed it first hand as her parents were divorced and dad was cut from the picture - useful only for a paycheck. My MIL freely criticized the man, often and open in any company. MIL's father wasn't around either. Sense the pattern?

So to answer your questions - I'm 90% sure I'm done. The above explains my wavering. I know *I'm* done trying. As of now, I've read more about fixing marriage than I care to recount. Most advice boils down to both parties deciding to "give it their all", "forgetting the past", and from what I see so insensitively - lots of ass kissing in hopes of stoking the wet charcoal back into a flame. Right now, I have zero desire to do so considering what I've put up with over the years - I finally hit my breaking point. Personal stubbornness on my part as I've finally gotten to seriously consider ending it. Now to hop back on the "I'll try" train seems like a step backward into quasi-comfortable content being miserable dealing with all the bull. I love my wife as we have 21+ years invested and she's the mother of my children. We are not necessarily best friends, we have little common interests, we rarely do things together, physical intimacy is minimal and one sided, she has little self-confidence (mental state and of her physical stature), her love appears conditional in action which contradicts what she says. I've used the measure to myself of: What would I do if she were to die? My answer is usually - relief and freedom.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

chuckn said:


> So to answer your questions - I'm 90% sure I'm done. The above explains my wavering. I know *I'm* done trying.


Well... may I be permitted to work with the 10% left that thinks it might just be savable?

Actually, reading your story, I see hope. The fact that she complains that you do not demonstrate enough love to her is a good sign. There are men in situations where the woman does not want any contact from the male and avoids all his attentions deliberatly, which makes it hard for him to try anything other than making himself scarce.

What comes over is that you have tried hard to reach her, but the language you have spoken does not match her inner language. She keeps repeatedly asking for something that you think you have repeatedly given. You think you've given it, she thinks you haven't. Who is correct?

I thin with a fresh outlook you could get your marriage back on track. Incidentally, you're no more Mr. Nice Guy attitude might be part of the solution as long as it's firmness with love rather than firmness out of irritation.

One question, does she have any good qualities? Can she be pleasant ever?


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

chuckn,

I have been married 23+ years and have a S19 and a D16. My wife and I haven't had sex in 6 years. 

In March, my wife told me we can't go on with the way things are between us. Something has to change. We either need to fix this or divorce. I told her I didn't see any chance of things improving so I thought we should divorce. Ever since then, it was *ME* that dropped the 'D-bomb' on her. 

She will tell anyone who will listen that she DOES NOT believe in divorce and will NEVER get a divorce. (Why did she bring it up then???) She told our counselor a couple of weeks ago that she was done, only to tell me 2 hours later that she changed her mind. When I asked her why, she said it was because she didn't believe in divorce.

My wife should win an academy award for her performances around our kids. She sits around all miserable, non-communicative with me, and gives me the nastiest go to h*ll looks you can imagine. She plays the victim role so well that my S19 now acts cold and distant toward me. Does she care? Nope because I'm getting what I deserve I guess.

I have been controlled, dominated and hurt so much over the past 10-15 years (or more) that I'm only a shell of my former self, according to people who know me. I've become a whipped puppy and a raging 'nice guy' and I'm sick of it. So although it sounds awful to say but I have used the same measuring stick you mentioned and I feel the same way ("What would I do if she were to die? My answer is usually - relief and freedom.").

The point of all this is to say it sounds like the 10% left in the marriage probably isn't enough to turn it around. If you've experienced what I have, there is just too much resentment and hurt to change anything. It's too late.

If you decide to go this route, be prepared because you're right - your wife will make it a living hell and you will definitely be the bad guy. You've got to be able to ignore all that noise and focus on what YOU want. Be sure to visit nomoremrniceguy.com/forums also. It is a great source of strength and inspiration.

Best of luck.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

D8zed said:


> I have been controlled, dominated and hurt so much over the past 10-15 years (or more) that I'm only a shell of my former self, according to people who know me. I've become a whipped puppy and a raging 'nice guy' and I'm sick of it.


How did you allow that to happen?


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