# The Addiction of Lying.



## HarryBosch

This past week my therapists received the surprise of their lives when I admitted I was living a life of lies the past thirty years. Partly it was because my lies were exposed, but mostly it was because I just couldn't live with myself anymore. The anxiety was just unbearable, and the knowledge that I knew I was hurting people became too much. I had talked to my therapists about my "untruths", but not to the extent of divulging everything... until now.

I won't get into details... suffice it to say, I wasn't who I said I was, and it not only destroyed my marriage, but it destroyed any trust I had built in divorce. If anyone has an ex here that seems to be hanging on... tell them you have lied to them the whole time and you're really not who they think you are... they'll run. I was crazy in love with my wife (Did not have an affair), but in my mind, had I fessed up to it all, I would have lost her. If anyone reads this and is lying to their spouse all of the time, you are going to lose no matter what. The truth will find its way...

I'm now working on living in truth. Most liars will actually find truth easier to come by because the burden was so heavy, the cleanse of being free from a lifetime of lies, and the consequences of a continuation of those lies, sets them free of ever having to lie again. I lied to save myself from something invisible that most likely never existed. My wife would have loved me for who I really was... and to think she was someone so shallow to think she wouldn't have...that is part of the shame I feel in myself.

If you are lying.. for no matter how long, and you know it will hurt those that you love... it is better to give it up now. I would rather have admitted it years ago.. the burden is way too much to carry, and the cost way too high.


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## Diana7

Why did you do it?


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## HarryBosch

When I met my wife she was college educated and a success... and I knew she would continue to be a success. She had a solid set of morals and standards, and I knew she would be a wonderful wife and mother. In my mind, there was no way I could ever have that in my life. I asked her out and perpetuated lies about myself to make myself bigger than I was. As my love grew, I felt that the truth would get me dropped like a hot potato.

I never really had any confidence in myself to stand for who I was. Living a lie in the beginning was easier than the truth... and it made me someone who could stand for himself.

Would she have dumped me had I fessed up in the beginning? Who knows. We went through a lot together... maybe she would have found it in her to forgive me... but my lying self would never allow that truth because once I fell in love, losing her would just reinforce the obvious...I wasn't good enough.


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## Diana7

So she never knew who she married.


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## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> So she never knew who she married.


Oh, stop. 

It's very rare that people know who they marry.

Sinful people marry other sinful people.


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## Diana7

minimalME said:


> Oh, stop.
> 
> It's very rare that people know who they marry.
> 
> Sinful people marry other sinful people.


We usually know the main things, especially with people living together for some time first. 
Most people don't completely lie about their whole selves! She thought she was marrying a completely different guy.
How was she supposed to make an informed decision when she didn't know even the basic facts about him?

He says this himself. He thought rightly or wrongly that she wouldn't be intetested in him if he didn't make up this false persona. It's very sad really because she may not have been worried about these things but she wasn't given the choice.

I can't imagine how exhausting living that way for all those years must have been. I can understand the sense of relief you now feel OP.


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## HarryBosch

I think she knew parts of me.. but the reality of it is, she never really knew the true me.


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## HarryBosch

She knew I loved her and that I was a good father... but much of my past was a lie.


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## HarryBosch

My therapist asked me today, now that everything is out in the open, what would stop me from lying all over again?

My reply was "Are you kidding?".... Let alone hurt someone else... why would I want to wish this on myself again? Truth is very liberating. Once you unpack that weight off your back, you'd be an idiot to want to strap it back on. I am who I am now you get the real me. If you're not interested... bye.


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## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> How was she supposed to make an informed decision when she didn't know even the basic facts about him?


That's just it. _No one_ makes an informed decision. There are _always_ surprises.

If we each knew the other completely, we'd probably go mad. We certainly wouldn't marry and procreate.


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## Diana7

HarryBosch said:


> My therapist asked me today, now that everything is out in the open, what would stop me from lying all over again?
> 
> My reply was "Are you kidding?".... Let alone hurt someone else... why would I want to wish this on myself again? Truth is very liberating. Once you unpack that weight off your back, you'd be an idiot to want to strap it back on. I am who I am now you get the real me. If you're not interested... bye.


That's a good attitude to have. Be yourself and go forward.


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## Diana7

HarryBosch said:


> My therapist asked me today, now that everything is out in the open, what would stop me from lying all over again?
> 
> My reply was "Are you kidding?".... Let alone hurt someone else... why would I want to wish this on myself again? Truth is very liberating. Once you unpack that weight off your back, you'd be an idiot to want to strap it back on. I am who I am now you get the real me. If you're not interested... bye.


That's a good attitude to have. Be yourself and go forward.


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## Diana7

minimalME said:


> That's just it. _No one_ makes an informed decision. There are _always_ surprises.
> 
> If we each knew the other completely, we'd probably go mad. We certainly wouldn't marry and procreate.


Not knowing everything about a person is very different to having a completely false picture given of that person.


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## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> Not knowing everything about a person is very different to having a completely false picture given of that person.


@HarryBosch is at the polar end and a more extreme example, but everyone presents themselves falsely at some point.

We are liars. It's who we are. Everyone shades the truth. No one is completely honest.


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## Diana7

minimalME said:


> @HarryBosch is at the polar end and a more extreme example, but everyone presents themselves falsely at some point.
> 
> We are liars. It's who we are. Everyone shades the truth. No one is completely honest.


That's a sad picture you have of people. Most people dont lie to their spouse their whole marriage and live as someone they are not. 
Many are very honest with their spouse as well.


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## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> That's a sad picture you have of people. Most people dont lie to their spouse their whole marriage and live as someone they are not.
> Many are very honest with their spouse as well.


No - it's not sad. It's biblical. 

Perhaps you don't fully understand depravity? 🤔


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## Diana7

minimalME said:


> No - it's not sad. It's biblical.
> 
> Perhaps you don't fully understand depravity? 🤔


I understand that many married couples don't lie to each other. Or keep hidden secrets.


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## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> I understand that many married couples don't lie to each other. Or keep hidden secrets.


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## EleGirl

Please stop the thread jack. It's not helpful.


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## EleGirl

HarryBosch said:


> My therapist asked me today, now that everything is out in the open, what would stop me from lying all over again?
> 
> My reply was "Are you kidding?".... Let alone hurt someone else... why would I want to wish this on myself again? Truth is very liberating. Once you unpack that weight off your back, you'd be an idiot to want to strap it back on. I am who I am now you get the real me. If you're not interested... bye.


Did your wife figure out that you were lying through the years, at least about some of your lies?

Did you lie about your entire past... like even your real name, etc.? Or as it about things like claiming you had a degree of some sort or other details?


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## Diana7

So your marriage ended despite you not telling her about all the lies? Or did she find out about some of them?


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## HarryBosch

EleGirl said:


> Did your wife figure out that you were lying through the years, at least about some of your lies?


I made claims to things I hadn't done in my life. My entire life wasn't a lie... but as I push through this, it feels that way. My ex-wife did some digging and called me on it.

At this point my ex-wife now knows everything. Personally I believe she was looking at reconciling.... but this killed that.

I was accused of cheating.. but the thing is, this wasn't about hiding someONE... this was about me hiding me. I never wanted to be with anyone else.

I hurt her badly, and I'm more than ashamed of it all. Worse is I hurt my son too... Even if she were to want to reconcile by some miracle, the shame and embarrassment I've brought would never allow me to do that. I've held her up for years...it's time to let her go and have the life she deserves.


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## HarryBosch

I made claims about things i didn't do...

The basics of my life weren't a lie.. I just faked my accomplishments... made them out to be greater than they actually were... nevertheless, they are lies. I was dishonest.

Sadly I believe I threw reconciliation out the window. Things were looking good when she did some digging and discovered the truth. 

She now knows everything...


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## HarryBosch

I divorced in January... I posted my story.


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## Casual Observer

minimalME said:


> That's just it. _No one_ makes an informed decision. There are _always_ surprises.
> 
> If we each knew the other completely, we'd probably go mad. We certainly wouldn't marry and procreate.


The litmus test should be, "Do I feel a need to hide something because, if they found out, they wouldn't want to continue the relationship?" Because doing that is denying your partner agency, and also putting you in a position where you feel a need to continue trying to keep that secret from being discovered, often lying. Things fitting into this category have a way of being discovered.

This is very different from being surprised by something. As you say, we can never know everything about the other person. But those things one wishes/hopes for/keeps from a potential spouse because they think that person couldn't handle it... that they would have made a different choice than to be with them... that's dangerously manipulative. And because whatever it is is such a big thing to the person trying to hide it... it taints things going forward. If they get it out in the open, there's a good chance you're going to find out if that other person really is the right person for you. They might embrace you all the more. And if it scares them off, then that's just the wrong person.

Isn't that just common sense?


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## Casual Observer

HarryBosch said:


> I made claims about things i didn't do...
> 
> The basics of my life weren't a lie.. I just faked my accomplishments... made them out to be greater than they actually were... nevertheless, they are lies. I was dishonest.
> 
> Sadly I believe I threw reconciliation out the window. Things were looking good when she did some digging and discovered the truth.
> 
> She now knows everything...


The problem isn't what you hid, which doesn't really sound like that big a deal, but your motivations for hiding them. It tainted everything, because you likely had to double-down from time to time, re-embrace the lies.

I think it likely you could have come clean sometime in the relationship, even long after marriage, and she might have been fine with it. Appreciated your angst and suffering and desire to make things right.

Did she discover it, or you simply couldn't live with it anymore? Rarely is it the latter.


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## HarryBosch

An interesting side note to all of this is the reaction of my family. They think "why does it matter anymore"... were divorced. She said she didn't want anything more to do with you.. why should she care?

.. and if anyone believes that documents are protected by privacy laws.. you can forget that. I'm sure any records you have can be bought for the right price.. she accessed records I thought were protected by government privacy laws.


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## Casual Observer

HarryBosch said:


> An interesting side note to all of this is the reaction of my family. They think "why does it matter anymore"... were divorced. She said she didn't want anything more to do with you.. why should she care?
> 
> .. and if anyone believes that documents are protected by privacy laws.. you can forget that. I'm sure any records you have can be bought for the right price.. she accessed records I thought were protected by government privacy laws.


After her initial suspicions you continued to try and embrace the lies, gas-lighting her?


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## HarryBosch

She discovered it. But I do like the insight you have in your posts. A question I'll have in therapy for sure is was I being manipulative and didn't realize it. I loved her.. I was a chickenshit to say anything for fear she'd dump my ass. I did it out of fear, I wasn't in secure enough in myself to pony up to my lies.


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## HarryBosch

I was adding lies on top of lies. She was never suspicious.. until we were divorced. we had our "divorce" honeymoon pretty quickly. We'd slept with each other for a few weeks, then she ended it, and then she came back for more... then the other day the hammer dropped.


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## HarryBosch

Casual Observer said:


> Did she discover it, or you simply couldn't live with it anymore? Rarely is it the latter.


I will say this. I had a growing feeling the back and forth was her using me. Our sex was off the charts. But I was tiring of all of it. When she put all of this all out there, I admitted everything. I was discovered... but I really think my body was mentally telling me that it had had enough. She could've accused me of killing JFK and I probably would've admitted to it. The anxiety was unbearable.

I'm not in any way saying hooray for me... what I'm saying is the burden of lies you carry is so heavy.. but that cost is just as heavy.


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## TAMAT

Harry,

I understand, I had a brother who was a habitual liar, he was more of an exaggerator actually as none of his lies were harmful. He also liked to promise things he never delivered.

He only lied about himself not other people.

He had a hard time accepting the facts of his life.

It was difficult to understand why he lied as he was good looking, broadly talented, intelligent and always had hot girlfriends. 

I think he started telling lies as a child and the more he told the harder it was to stop. In some ways it's like a hoarder with junk ,he built up such a store of dishonesty it was crushing to think of fixing it despite the guilt which kept accumulating.


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## HarryBosch

TAMAT said:


> he built up such a store of dishonesty it was crushing to think of fixing it despite the guilt which kept accumulating.


That is exactly how I've been feeling, you reach a point of no return and your mental state begins to decay. Some can endure the decay much better than others. There wasn't a day that went by that I wasn't thinking about it.

I know the damage it has done to others, what I am uncertain of is the long term damage it has done to me. The only thing I can do now is smother myself in truth and hope that is enough to guide me to light and happiness.


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## Busy Washing My Hair

This is like some Mad Men Don Draper stuff hahahaha. Except you’re a good dad. Where’s my popcorn?


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## anchorwatch

You are a Nice Guy, Harry.

One trait Nice guys engage in is telling lies, partial truths, and omitting information in order to manipulate others into seeing them in a better light than they see themselves.

You are who you are, Harry. No reason to lie about it. Just be it.


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## HarryBosch

Thank You.. My son came over today.. he said that although it was wrong and that I hurt Mom, you could be like Grandpa (Ex's father)... He lied and is a drunk and he never would admit it, and never do anything about his problems. You want to do something about it and are getting help. That's how I know you're a good Dad... that and you love me.

Pretty deep for an 11 year old...


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## anchorwatch

HarryBosch said:


> Thank You.. My son came over today.. he said that although it was wrong and that I hurt Mom, you could be like Grandpa (Ex's father)... He lied and is a drunk and he never would admit it, and never do anything about his problems. You want to do something about it and are getting help. That's how I know you're a good Dad... that and you love me.
> 
> Pretty deep for an 11 year old...


It is very insightful for an 11-year-old.

One step in front of the other, Harry. Read the link I posted to you. See for yourself.

If you don't like what you see, you *can* change it. 

Best


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## DownByTheRiver

I think usually it's low self-esteem that started it, but sociopaths and con artists do it too, for gain. I've known a couple of chronic liars. One was a close friend. Low self-esteem. He wanted people to think he was more successful (he was successful enough). He had had emotional problems with parents and had a childhood trauma of his kid sister dying. He was a close friend of mine and had a lot of good in him. 

The other one was a con artist/meth addict/thief and he also had big confidence problems, ED, was violent (meth addicts often are), and overcompensated because his ego was starved. He needed constant validation that he was attractive (he was physically attractive) and he got a lot of women and then abused them. He was someone I worked with for awhile. He had a good sense of humor and a couple of redeeming qualities. I spent an awful lot of time alone with him in a retail store. It was from one of his girlfriends I found out about the ED. He respected me so some of his fly-by-nights would appeal to me to see if I could help salvage him. I would just advise them to get away because he was violent, and I'd say it right in front of him because it was he himself who first told me he was. His male friends said I was the only woman he had any respect for and also wished I could help him. I tried to get him to stop the meth and told him that would likely help his ED, but he said without it he didn't have the confidence to just go about daily life, in essence.


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## RandomDude

So you lied to score?

It is tempting, sometimes I consider lying about my education actually, it's a pain in the ass explaining to people why I don't have a degree and dropped out of high school and several consider me a write off regardless of where I am right now financially  Family too, they judge me for a broken family, judge me because they imagine I have issues unresolved.

Still, this was my favorite cartoon growing up:





Moral of the story - in the end, the truth does come out. Glad you learnt your lesson now with your ex-wife, so it's of no consequence and your son forgives you.

Just be straight with your new partner, and forgive yourself too.


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## HarryBosch

RandomDude said:


> Moral of the story - in the end, the truth does come out. Glad you learnt your lesson now with your ex-wife, so it's of no consequence and your son forgives you.
> 
> Just be straight with your new partner, and forgive yourself too.


Thank You.. the biggie is forgiving myself. My therapist told me the weight I carried won't truly be off and be felt until you forgive yourself.


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## TAMAT

Harry,

Do you plan on apologising to all the people you lied to? 

My liar brother somewhat lost his false face a few hours or so before he died when I called him. He admitted to something negative about himself for the 2nd time, he was 70. 

You still have time.


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## RandomDude

HarryBosch said:


> Thank You.. the biggie is forgiving myself. My therapist told me the weight I carried won't truly be off and be felt until you forgive yourself.


I agree. 

Sure, drive the guilt in until it hurts, process it. But once you learn the lesson, accept that you made the mistake, that you have learnt, that you won't make the same mistake and move on and be at peace with it. That's forgiving yourself.

Don't make promises you can't keep either, but if you do, be honest with her about it and work it out. That's what I should have done with my ex, as she caught me on my lie about porn.


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## HarryBosch

TAMAT said:


> Harry,
> 
> Do you plan on apologising to all the people you lied to?
> 
> My liar brother somewhat lost his false face a few hours or so before he died when I called him. He admitted to something negative about himself for the 2nd time, he was 70.
> 
> You still have time.


Of course, at some point I see that happening. Unfortunately right now, that isn't possible. Her family and friends do not think kindly of me right now, and I know some never will. If I'm allowed to see them down the road, I will apologize. 

I've read a lot here, and the move would be to apologize on my own terms.. meaning with or without her being present. But that isn't going to happen for a while. I hardly ever see them, and some are far away...

My family I've apologized to ... and friends? Well, honestly, her friends were mine. I'm really establishing new things in my life... that includes new friends.


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