# Roller Coaster (women opinions especially needed)



## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

Trying to recover from EA/PA last fall. Been to counseling and at times feel like we are making progress. However had a big fight over the weekend. My spouse is ultra sensitive to ANY criticism I give her. To be fair to her, she was opening up to me about her feelings (which she has rarely done in past) and I somehow turned it into me pointing out that she was being selfish during EA/PA. She got angry, I got angry that she was angry, and the insults flew. I called counselor and she refused to go since she was "so angry at me she couldn't ride in the car to counseling". So I went by myself and had a good session. I guess I want to know is this rollercoaster normal? We've been together over 20 years and are finding out things about ourselves through counseling. But I'm still hurt by some of the things from EA/PA(possible). She has finally talked to me about EA/PA(maybe), but just as soon it be a long gone thing of the past. Now when we talk about it she takes it as me being judgmental of her, something I don't quite comprehend, but our counselor does see her point of view. She seems to get SO angry, SO easily since it all went down last fall. On the good side, I am hoping this is a sign that we are working on some tough issues that we had never addressed. Are these emotional swings normal for a couple used to 20 years of doing things one way and changing as we are trying? Or is this a sign that we are not compatible? Opinions welcome!


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

If she's still angry at you then she's still resenting you for ruining the EA/PA.

After a year if there is still anger, that's not a good sign. You've both been in counseling, has it been helping her at all (and you) or do you feel you're still stuck in Neutral a year later?


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> If she's still angry at you then she's still resenting you for ruining the EA/PA.
> 
> After a year if there is still anger, that's not a good sign. You've both been in counseling, has it been helping her at all (and you) or do you feel you're still stuck in Neutral a year later?


It hasn't been a year, it's been about 6 months since our issue. I think it is more along the lines that she has low self esteem and wishes the embarrassment and shame of getting caught would vanish. Problem is when I bring it up , she sometimes views it as me "pounding it into her" (i.e. judging her) to make her look bad. She says she wishes it would just go away i.e. I'd never bring up again. Counseling has helped, but seems like its taking us both out of our comfort zones so to speak.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I'll try to put this as nicely as possible while still being blunt...she has no right to get angry with you.
> 
> You can be as judgmental as you want. She cheated. I'm assuming you don't want to keep going down an unpleasant path with her, since you're reconciling, but I think she should just suck it up and allow you your emotions. You're entitled.
> 
> ...


And you are correct. In her mind though, she sees me as asking the same questions "over and over again" and it pisses her off. The argument over the weekend I felt started with me because she was talking about her emotions and opening up and I slipped something in that really had nothing to do with the conversation at hand. It related back to the EA and she views that as me trying to "get my knocks in" so to speak. Thank was not my motivation and truthfully the purpose was to let her know that she was being selfish at the time. Only thing is, it was bad timing on my part because she was opening to me about other unrelated things. It was in the context that it was very uncharacteristic of her to be that selfish, but she viewed it as me putting her down about what happened i the fall.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> She's going to have to get over that. Her affair gave you the right to ask the same questions a thousand times a day if you want to. It's great that she is opening up, but she has to understand the hurt you are carrying.
> 
> A pro counselor might advise differently but as a woman who had an EA years ago I can tell you that you hold the cards (in my opinion) She doesn't have the right to dictate to you how you should react.
> 
> I would also question why there is still so much anger and defensiveness on her part. Has she come completely clean?


The defensiveness comes in because as we have processed during counseling she has serious issues with feeling judged by others and having the "perfection complex" that says she has to be perfect. Hard for you and I to comprehend, but she HATES when I bring up anything that she views as being critical of her. Now imagine you are of this ilk and you get caught in an EA (PA?) and finally fess up. She says she wants to be with me, has gone to counseling, quit her job where coworker with EA is at, gave me password to her cellphone account so I can see all calls texts etc. So maybe she didn't tell me everything (how will I ever know- I've asked 1,000 times and she has told me same story), but her behavior is saying she wants to try to make this work. But she HATES when it gets brought up because it is such a black mark on her "perfectionism" that she struggles with so badly. She has also said that she feels I am "jerking her chain" as if I am going to reconcile with her and then abandon her. Any time she perceives criticism it amplifies this belief that I am going to bolt, and she gets VERY ANGRY. Especially when we have huge fights like over the weekend.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I would also question why there is still so much anger and defensiveness on her part. Has she come completely clean?


Excellent question - my bet is no. Once you've put it all on the table there's little reason to remain defensive. 

Bodhitree, unless you're repeatedly berating her or attacking her with her affair she doesn't get to be upset - it's part of the price of cheating. Like LFFA is telling you - it's up to her to do the work to help you and rebuild the marriage. If you need to talk about it, if you want to ask the same question for the 1000th time - she should go along - willingly. Even if she has come completely clean - which personally I doubt - she's still being selfish with her affair. She's putting her feelings and emotions ahead of yours, made even worse by the fact that her actions are the reason you have the feelings and emotions that she is wanting to sweep under the rug. 

She made the mess and now she wants you to just pretend it didn't happen? Don't give in - you, she and both of you together must deal with it or it will likely rear it's head again in the future.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Bodhitree said:


> The defensiveness comes in because as we have processed during counseling she has serious issues with feeling judged by others and having the "perfection complex" that says she has to be perfect. Hard for you and I to comprehend, but she HATES when I bring up anything that she views as being critical of her. Now imagine you are of this ilk and you get caught in an EA (PA?) and finally fess up. She says she wants to be with me, has gone to counseling, quit her job where coworker with EA is at, gave me password to her cellphone account so I can see all calls texts etc. So maybe she didn't tell me everything (how will I ever know- I've asked 1,000 times and she has told me same story), but her behavior is saying she wants to try to make this work. But she HATES when it gets brought up because it is such a black mark on her "perfectionism" that she struggles with so badly. She has also said that she feels I am "jerking her chain" as if I am going to reconcile with her and then abandon her. Any time she perceives criticism it amplifies this belief that I am going to bolt, and she gets VERY ANGRY. Especially when we have huge fights like over the weekend.


I've started to notice a trend here reading peoples stories. I'm starting to see that people in affairs are extremely arrogant, inflexible, and self absorbed - as I type this I'm wondering why I think this is a revelation??? Anyway - I was an arrogant ass when I had my EA - I thought I was bullet proof - I thought I was so superior. HA!!! You know what? Having an affair knocks you down to reality. It tears apart your image of yourself and if you're smart you take advantage of that and put it back together very carefully while studying every piece and trying to figure out what about you let you get your head so far up your own ass. She needs to get over the "perfectionism" she's not perfect and now there's huge proof. Rug sweeping it doesn't change the fact that she did it. She needs to deal with it. 

Don't give her a pass - she's got to own it and work through it.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I've started to notice a trend here reading peoples stories. I'm starting to see that people in affairs are extremely arrogant, inflexible, and self absorbed - as I type this I'm wondering why I think this is a revelation??? Anyway - I was an arrogant ass when I had my EA - I thought I was bullet proof - I thought I was so superior. HA!!! You know what? Having an affair knocks you down to reality. It tears apart your image of yourself and if you're smart you take advantage of that and put it back together very carefully while studying every piece and trying to figure out what about you let you get your head so far up your own ass. She needs to get over the "perfectionism" she's not perfect and now there's huge proof. Rug sweeping it doesn't change the fact that she did it. She needs to deal with it.
> 
> Don't give her a pass - she's got to own it and work through it.


Thanks Sig: Now to her credit she has owned up- at the time of EA (PA?) I knew something was definitely amiss- I got hold of phone records and confronted her with them and she told me the guys name when and where they went. As far as I can tell her story matched phone contact with what records showed. Of course maybe there is more, but nobody knows but she and OM. Anyway, I do think there is an element of "self righteousness" because she felt I didn't care about her etc. But truthfully, I am done worrying about the OM and checking up on her anymore. I want to move on in my life possibly with her, but possibly not depending how this goes.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Excellent question - my bet is no. Once you've put it all on the table there's little reason to remain defensive.
> 
> Bodhitree, unless you're repeatedly berating her or attacking her with her affair she doesn't get to be upset - it's part of the price of cheating. Like LFFA is telling you - it's up to her to do the work to help you and rebuild the marriage. If you need to talk about it, if you want to ask the same question for the 1000th time - she should go along - willingly. Even if she has come completely clean - which personally I doubt - she's still being selfish with her affair. She's putting her feelings and emotions ahead of yours, made even worse by the fact that her actions are the reason you have the feelings and emotions that she is wanting to sweep under the rug.
> 
> She made the mess and now she wants you to just pretend it didn't happen? Don't give in - you, she and both of you together must deal with it or it will likely rear it's head again in the future.


Sig:
One other thing is that I've been working through this stuff really well. The argument we had over weekend was probably unnecessary. However, her level of anger at me is almost scary sometimes when we have these rare big fights. She is so mistrustful of me and how I supposedly "really feel about her" as in I am going to leave her and screw her over. Anyway, it seems like all the EA crap re surfaces when we have a big one like this. Last night we talked very openly and today we have talked and a lot of exchanges of love etc. I really do believe she loves me, but I think she has some really big issues that the EA has brought out. Mistrust of me, feeling judged, criticized etc. I don't think she can believe I stayed with her after EA, so this has been my attempt to show I do care and love her. May be a losing cause, but we have made strides but then we have these stupid blowups that seem to set us back.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

So she cheats and she doesn't trust you??? She's angry at you??? (note - you know she's not really angry at you right? She's angry at herself but can't reconcile that so the anger just lands on you)

Of course she has issues. Having an affair is devastating - it will really really screw you up, but that doesn't mean she gets to attack you or get you to rug sweep it because she has issues. If she has issues tell her to get her butt into IC and fix them. As far as judging her - well you're entitled if you want to but I bet you're not. As far as criticizing her - know what happens when you screw up? You get criticized so you don't screw up again. 

It's still all about her. I'd be ok if she was having these issues and telling you about them and talking to you but this lashing out to get you to be quiet about it is bad. She doesn't want to face it so when you bring it up she blows up. 

Honestly is sounds to me like she needs to put on her big girl britches and pay the prices of her actions. All this drama just feels like a smoke screen to keep from having to face herself.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

You don't seem to be clear on whether or not she had a PA in addition to her EA...so that's not a good sign.

In my experience with my husband, he frequently gets angry at me for repeatedly bringing up his past offenses...he gets defensive, too. I think people get defensive because they've been called out on the carpet, just like you've done with your wife. They quickly find that they have to answer to someone because they got caught, and they don't LIKE it. Sigma's right; liars / cheaters are arrogant because they feel like they're on top of the world, and no one can bring them down. Well reality bites.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Well reality bites.


Yeah and it has teeth to. 

When reality bites - it bites HARD!!


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I guess this angers me because of my own husband, and the way he gets mad at 'bringing up the same thing' or 'having the same argument' over and over again. How long, he asks, am I going to keep on bringing it up.

His lies? Probably forever; there will always be triggers to those. His attempts at bringing female friends of his into our life? I'm willing to stop bringing that up when he finally stops trying to cross that line.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

At first I was very defensive and kept telling hubby to just drop it..It sucks dealing with your own issues..I still don't like talking about my EA because it hurts and I hate thinking about the OM. It makes me sick when he brings it up but I am dealing with it because it's what he needs to get better. Yes in the eyes of the WS in a perfect world we want our spouse to just forget it ever happened. Of course that isn't gonna happen so I answer all of his questions and learn to live the horrible thing I did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

I agree with all of the above posters. She doesn't get to be angry with you. If she is truly remorseful (which is necessary for reconciliation) she needs to come 100% clean and be prepared to tell you what you need to know as many times as you need it told. It is time for her to put in the effort to fix the relationship that she hurt, you don't have to apologize.

The issues that led up to the affair are a result of both of you, but the affair is 100% on her.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Bodhitree said:


> She says she wishes it would just go away i.e. I'd never bring up again.


That's called rug sweeping. That is not fixing the problem at all.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I agree, like I said I was like that in the beginning but now that I'm not doing that I'm learning alot about myself and my faults that I need to work on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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