# Wife Cheated



## Lost in Hell

Background: I work away from home 9-10 months year. I'm 32, my wife is 32. No kids. I have trust issues. We have been separated for about a year living 20 minutes from each other when I am home. We maintained the same relationship after she moved out as before. Married 7 years.

As I sit halfway around the world I find out my wife gets a hotel room in a town 4 hours from our house. Her entire family (as in 10 plus people) live in this town, so I'm suspicious as to why she got a hotel room when she could stay with numerous people. 

I then find out she drives to the port to pick up a guy she met on a cruise with her family a couple weeks prior. She took him back to the hotel for 3 hours then back to the port. 

I confronted her about all of this and she lied, telling me the guy was an unwanted "boyfriend" that fell in love with her sister on the cruise. She had to run interference for her sister, since her sister had another man at her apartment when this guy came in. She said nothing happened other than looking at photos from the cruise. Friendship only. I don't believe her. I have many times in the past told her how some of the things she does make me uncomfortable. This would be an example. Even if she really did what she said she did, I don't think that is something a married woman should do.

I blow up thinking the worst. A week of sleepless night go by and I try to ignore my brain and go with my heart which is now broken in a million pieces. 

I asked her to disclose her email passwords etc so I can prove to myself that I am wrong. She does. I find nothing. Then I think to check the deleted folder. I find weeks worth of emails to a different guy on the cruise. Very inappropriate things. She sent him pictures of how badly her knees were after their last visit.

Nuke meltdown part two. 

I confronted her about this and she denied everything. She didn't realize I looked in the deleted folder and already knew.

It was only after I began quoting the emails that she admitted it. She says she never did this before and couldn't give me a reason why she did it. Only that she is hurting so bad for doing this to me.

I can't believe anything she says anymore.

She says she is regrets it but can't give a reason for her actions. 

Super kicker is we have been in serious talks about finally having kids. And we talked about this when she was there visiting him. 

I don't know what to think. I told her I can't move past this and will be getting a divorce. I have a consult this week. She says she will not contest the divorce if thats what I really want. She says she is tired of fighting for us to work. We have had a good amount of problems in our marriage, but nothing like this.

My heart is hurting so badly. Violating my trust and infidelity are the two worst things a woman can do to a man. 

My heart is screaming one minute to make it work and feeling so hurt the next. My head is telling me to eject.

She needs therapy. A lot of it. I think I do too after this. I plan to go to therapy when I finally get home. 

Am I a doormat for even thinking about trying to make this work? 

I am not telling her anything other than I am moving forward with the divorce. She doesn't use me for my money, she has her own. I am so confused.

What should I do?


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## HerToo

Re-read your own post. You said you have trust issues. So you focus on the trust issues. Then you find that you received a reason to have trust issues.

Do you want to have trust issues?

So you get a divorce, but not from your trust issues. Now what?

Would a job closer to home address your trust issues? If so, change jobs. 

Work on your trust issues and creating a life that keeps those trust issues from returning.

I'm not ignoring what your wife did, nor do I condone it. But it's done, and you can't undo it. Neither can she. Go through the process you need to in order to fix yourself.

Good luck


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## Lost in Hell

We were planning on going to marriage counseling together when I got home. I wanted her to move back in with me and going t therapy was going to be the litmus test to see if I could truly get over my trust issues.

I know my trust issues are bad, but I never lied or deceived my wife. I have always been honest with her.

I'm not sure I'm following on what you are saying about wanting trust issues. I don't want trust issues, but I have them. I had a breakthrough a few months ago and felt like I truly gave her my all. I was fully vulnerable. Thats why I have trust issues. Being taken advantage of in the past (at a much earlier time in my life). 

Reading everything I could get my hands on to work through my issues actually helped. But how can I trust her ever again?


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## Lost in Hell

Why would a woman set of having kids with me do something like this? That is very confusing to me.


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## Lost in Hell

Am I crazy for even having the faintest feeling of wanting to work things out? I'm not sure I can ever live with myself knowing I gave up on myself for her.


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## Shaggy

You don't have trust issues, you valid bring cheated on issues.

Look,she cheated, she lied, sounds like she hooked up on the cruise and afterward without blinking and eye or feeling guilt. That says she's comfortable cheating which means she has likely done it before.

So just perhaps you don't have trust problems. You a cheating wife problem.

You can fix that by divorcing her.

Btw, find the guy she has been cheating with and see if he is married or has a gf. Be sure to let her know he has been sleeping with your soon to be ex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HerToo

You can't trust anyone other than yourself. Why? "Never underestimate your power to change yourself. Never overestimate your power to change others." People will behave as who they are inside. People will make mistakes of all kinds over their lifetime. Your wife made one that is fatal to most marriages, but not all. If you want to work it out and learn how to trust her, see a marriage counselor. And both of you need to have individual counseling at the same time. Allow the counselors to share information.

As for your trust issues, if you continue to focus on them in the way of "I have trust issues", you will continue to get what you need to keep those supporting thoughts there. Instead, tell yourself "I refuse to have trust issues and will reject any trust issue thought that enters my mind". You will start receiving what you need to make this thought a reality. Force yourself to seek what you want, and discard anything that is contrary.


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## Thorburn

You have legitimate trust issues. Your wife violated your trust. I am not understanding why you are beating yourself up when they are warranted. Your wife cheated and you are saying you have trust issues. Come on.

Honestly, how can you have a marriage when you are apart for most of the year? Does not justify your wife cheating but you can't have a marriage work with this kind of situation. And then add a cheating spouse.


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## Entropy3000

You are gone 10 months a year. Actually you are now separated. 

How do you figure you are married? I don't get it. 

What type of work do you do?


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## Lost in Hell

Entropy3000 said:


> You are gone 10 months a year. Actually you are now separated.
> 
> How do you figure you are married? I don't get it.
> 
> What type of work do you do?


Being separated was a step towards divorce in the past. WE made each other miserable, but still loved each other, or so I thought. When I was in town she would either stay with me or I stayed with her. We still cared very much for each other, but didn't want to continue making each other sick.

I wanted separation and divorce because I wanted her to be happy and I knew my trust issues would never let me make her truly happy. Sort of screwed up, but i wanted divorce to make her happy. She didn't want to divorce, but I couldn't stand seeing her hurt so much by inability to trust her.

I had a breakthrough and we started moving forward. I wanted her to move back in, we stated talking about kids, the whole nine yards. It was the best feeling in my life to finally make myself vulnerable to her and have the feeling that she would never do anything to hurt me. 


As far as working so much, I would be dumb to walk away from my job. (Obviously looking back-not so much) I make a very good wage. We both knew it sucked, but we both agreed to gut it out to get ahead now, so when we have kids I can be home.


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## Lost in Hell

And I don't know if the other guy is married. I asked her and she said he told her that he wasn't married. I asked if she was sure. She is not. She almost sounded worried that he might be married. Like she was more concerned about the other spouse more than me.

I have read a bunch of other threads about wanting to know details of the affair and how it really doesn't matter. I don't see how it can make things worse. I know because I asked and she was finally honest with me about what happened. I knew it would hurt, but i felt like I needed to know. Not sure why.


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## Entropy3000

Lost in Hell said:


> Being separated was a step towards divorce in the past. WE made each other miserable, but still loved each other, or so I thought. When I was in town she would either stay with me or I stayed with her. We still cared very much for each other, but didn't want to continue making each other sick.
> 
> I wanted separation and divorce because I wanted her to be happy and I knew my trust issues would never let me make her truly happy. Sort of screwed up, but i wanted divorce to make her happy. She didn't want to divorce, but I couldn't stand seeing her hurt so much by inability to trust her.
> 
> I had a breakthrough and we started moving forward. I wanted her to move back in, we stated talking about kids, the whole nine yards. It was the best feeling in my life to finally make myself vulnerable to her and have the feeling that she would never do anything to hurt me.
> 
> 
> As far as working so much, I would be dumb to walk away from my job. (Obviously looking back-not so much) I make a very good wage. We both knew it sucked, but we both agreed to gut it out to get ahead now, so when we have kids I can be home.


So making a good wage being away, doing who knows what, is more important than your marriage. At least you did not see it as anything more than an inconvenience. But no excuse for a cheating wife, I don't know how you can carry on a relationship like this and expect much different.

I am not judging. I am just repeating back what you are telling me.


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## Lost in Hell

Entropy3000 said:


> So making a good wage being away, doing who knows what, is more important than your marriage.
> 
> I am not judging. I am just repeating back what you are telling me.


No. Flat out no. We had an agreement that if it ever got to be too much with me being gone she would tell me to come home and I would. 

I realize what I wrote sounds like I feel that way, but it isn't. I really don't enjoy being gone so much, but I was doing it for us.

All these years feel wasted at this point.


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## bryanp

You would be out of your mind to stop the divorce. She has played you for a complete fool. She had no intention of telling you how she screwed this guy on a ship and a hotel. Who knows that maybe she got pregnant from him. The bottom line is that she is playing you and clearly has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? She is clearly bad news.


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## Lost in Hell

I have no intention of stopping the divorce process. A part of me thinks if we divorce and start over we can make things work. But I will never get married again. I don't think I can risk that again.

I think I am losing my mind at times because my head and heart don't agree with each other.


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## Entropy3000

Lost in Hell said:


> No. Flat out no. We had an agreement that if it ever got to be too much with me being gone she would tell me to come home and I would.
> 
> I realize what I wrote sounds like I feel that way, but it isn't. I really don't enjoy being gone so much, but I was doing it for us.
> 
> All these years feel wasted at this point.


I would feel the same way.


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## 5stringpicker

Lost in Hell said:


> Am I crazy for even having the faintest feeling of wanting to work things out? I'm not sure I can ever live with myself knowing I gave up on myself for her.


The way you describe your relationship (living apart, can't get along, contemplating a divorce), yes you're crazy for trying to work things out. It sounds to me like most of your separation anxiety is because you lost her to another man. But based on the history you describe, do you really think you'd have a marriage that is satisfying? Time to move on Hoss.


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## happyman64

:iagree:



> She says she will not contest the divorce if thats what I really want. She says she is tired of fighting for us to work. We have had a good amount of problems in our marriage, but nothing like this.


LOst,

You are making yourself crazy. Stop it. You have had these gut feelings for a while. 

You are young and only married 7 years. Time to end the marriage and find someone that appreciates you and can keep her legs closed.

Look at the quote. Your wayward wife is tired of fighting for the marriage. My man, sore knees and picking up strange men on a cruise and taking them to hotels so her family does not know what she is doing is a strange way to work on the marriage.

Accept the truth. Your wife cheated. And not once either.

People that love each other and respect each other do not do that. It is really quite simple.

Let the divorce run its course. Set her free and work on you. Get a new job so you can have a stable relationship with someone that will honor their vows.

Good Luck
Happy


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## AngryandUsed

Sorry dude, I wish I had better things to say for you.

You are away 75% of your time. She denied first nuke. She also denied second nude until you started quoting evidences. She refuses to give answers.

You cant control her from cheating on you.

I agree with Happyman64.


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## Stryker

Lost in Hell said:


> I have no intention of stopping the divorce process. A part of me thinks if we divorce and start over we can make things work. But I will never get married again. I don't think I can risk that again.
> 
> I think I am losing my mind at times because my head and heart don't agree with each other.


You have lost faith in Marriage,Fidelity and Woman...yet a mere though, 10-15% of women are still in the Good Category...all round the world...


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## Stryker

Women's relationships today follow
a very predictable pattern:

They push men for commitment

They get what they want

They lose interest in sex

They become attracted to someone else

They start cheating

They become angry and resentful

They begin telling their partners that they need time apart

They blame their partners for their behavior...and eventually, after making themselves and everyone around them miserable for an indefinite, but usually, long period of time, they end their relationships or marriages. 

--Michelle Langley..


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## Stryker

For several reasons, which I explain in my book, infidelity and marital limbo are quickly becoming the norm for women and, as I've already pointed out, women are also initiating 70 - 75% of all divorces. 



I sincerely believe that the information in Women's Infidelity is crucial for both males and females, regardless of their relationship status. Furthermore, I also believe that it would be a mistake to end a relationship prior to reading this book. 



─ Michelle Langley


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## Lost in Hell

I actually came across that book while trying to find literature on all of this. Is it sold as an E-Book anywhere? I couldn't find it on iTunes.


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## warlock07

You don't have trust issues. She has honesty and fidelity problems. They would have been issues if she wasn't cheating. I think this is the best time to move on.


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## PHTlump

You were crazy for working apart from your wife for 9-10 months per year, then separating, and then agreeing to have kids. That's a recipe for disaster.

You should be grateful to your wife for cheating on you now, while you're young with no kids, rather than waiting until you had given up a high paying job and were saddled with kids and a mortgage. At that point, divorce becomes REALLY expensive.

So get out. Work on yourself. Date other women.


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## sinnister

Have you ever considered that you don't or never had "trust issues"? And that what you were displaying was actually your instincts telling you not to trust your cheating wife?

Something to ponder.


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## Muffinman

Lost in Hell said:


> She says she is regrets it but can't give a reason for her actions.



She CAN give a reason,she just won't because it will be humiliating for her, and you.

The reason is she WANTED to have sex with this other guy.

Anytime they say they don't know, or can't give you a reason, they are lying. They are too ashamed to say why. Trust me, they know.




> Super kicker is we have been in serious talks about finally having kids.


Well you need to put that on the back burner right now! Because you will first have to decide if you will ever be able to trust her again. Everyone is different, but the odds against you never trusting her again are high.




> I don't know what to think. I told her I can't move past this and will be getting a divorce. I have a consult this week.


I would recommend this. Its just my view that once someone cheats, the marriage is too badly damaged. There are exceptions, but IMO, most that stay in a marriage with a cheater are settling for a life less lived. No offense to those that truly reconciled and do not feel that way.




> She says she will not contest the divorce if thats what I really want. She says she is tired of fighting for us to work.


Then there you have it. She wants to be able to skate by. She is more concerned with having a rough time of things as opposed to doing whatever it might take to right her wrong.

So yes, I'd divorce her.



> My heart is hurting so badly. Violating my trust and infidelity are the two worst things a woman can do to a man.


I agree. But trust me, you WILL be fine. Especially if you do end up divorcing and its all said and done. Once you feel what its like to start dating again, and to decent women(hopefully), you will not be sorry you got rid of her.




> Am I a doormat for even thinking about trying to make this work?


No, I wouldn't say that. You'd be a doormat if you decided to make it work and she thinks she can call the shots. And it sounds like thats exactly what she'd do. Because she doesn't want to invest any effort into trying to make it work if it means she'll have a rough time. She cares only about herself.




> I am not telling her anything other than I am moving forward with the divorce. She doesn't use me for my money, she has her own. I am so confused.
> 
> What should I do?


Divorce her. But do not give her details. Talk to your attorney and don't give your wife a heads up as to when your appointments are, or what is discussed. Let the day she gets served papers be the day she realizes she really is about to get dumped.


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## Falene

Lost in Hell said:


> What should I do?



You should show yourself the love and respect she is incapable of showing you.

Move on. When the dust settles you will be amazed at the happiness that is out there for you.


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## Lost in Hell

Thanks to everyone for the input.

I plan on divorce still. She already knows this. I very strongly suggested she go to therapy and I think she has her first appointment this Friday. I am actually looking forward to getting therapy when I get home. 


> She CAN give a reason,she just won't because it will be humiliating for her, and you.
> 
> The reason is she WANTED to have sex with this other guy.
> 
> Anytime they say they don't know, or can't give you a reason, they are lying. They are too ashamed to say why. Trust me, they know.


It really is hard to believe her about knowing why. It is pretty clear to me. She fostered this relationship for about a month if you count the cruise and the weeks of emails and visits after. I was looking back and the entire time she was messing with this guy, we were on the mend so to speak. 

I'm not sure if this was an Exit Affair or what. 

This really is a rollercoaster, but I know I will get on with life.


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## warlock07

even her sister was shuffling 2 guys. one hell of a family


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## Lost in Hell

You have no idea. 4 girls in the family and the mother is pretty much the same.


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## desert-rose

It sounds like an exit affair. She's told you that she won't contest a divorce and is tired of fighting for your relationship. It doesn't sound like she is going to be willing to put in the effort it would take to salvage the marriage. I think you should go through with the divorce. Your instincts are right and if you don't do it right away, you'll be stuck in painful limbo for a long time. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. It sucks and it's painful. Go ahead with divorce. If she really wanted to fix things, she'd find a way, despite the filing, to convince you to work it out. (I should take my own advice, but I'm stuck in limbo, instead because I can't seem to figure out what I want).


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## Lost in Hell

Yes, the divorce will happen. That is something I have had strong beliefs about my entire life. If a spouse is not faithful and divorce must happen. At that point regardless of past problems, the spouse obviously doesn't think much of the other spouse or the marriage.

I do hope to work things out in the future, but the divorce is not up for negotiation regardless of my emotions. 

I am somehow remaining civil with her through all of this. She has an IC session for this Friday. I have a lawyer consult the same day. I really hope she gets the help she needs. I know I will need some too. I actually look forward to finding someone to help me sort through all of this and what I am really feeling. 

I know everything is so messed up in my head at this point and not to take my emotions at face value, simply because I have no idea what I'm feeling when I feel love, disappointment, crushed, hopeful, and who knows what else in the span of 5 minutes.

We have talked and I told her I will continue with the divorce regardless of what I'm feeling. Simply-her action=divorce. 

If she truly wants to fix us then she needs to go to IC, I need to go to IC, and if sometime in the future once we are both better individually we should do CC/MC. 

I know I will never forgive her for what she did. What I don't know is if I can ever get past what she did enough to have a relationship with her after everything settles. 

I may still be crazy for thinking that, but that is why I am going through with the divorce. If I find out down the road I am insane from this, at least I will be out of the marriage cleanly. If I find out I can move past this, then we would have to start over completely. Something that I know crushes her since she wanted to try and get pregnant later this year. She'll have to live that.



Hopefully you figure out what you want. I don't at this point but am trying to take steps to cover all the possibles.


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## Shaggy

Lost - I think you're doing this right. You know you own values and you aren't compromising on them. Good for you.

Expect her to either decide that she's fully busted and it's finally over and she begins to openly date around - instead of the cheating behind the scenes

OR for her to try to sucker you in with tears and I'm sorry

Either way stay strong and true to your values and you'll come out of this with good self respect.


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## jnj express

No matter what you do in this situation-----for the future---know this

YOU CAN/WILL NEVER HAVE ANY CHANCE AT A SUCCESSFUL MGE. IF YOU ARE GONE 9 to 10 MONTHS OF THE YEAR

I don't care what your spouse tells you about being gone---it is not a normal mge., to be gone, and leave your spouse by themselves for all that time.

If you have to be gone, and that is the only way to be financially successful---than do not get married.


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## Lost in Hell

jnj express said:


> No matter what you do in this situation-----for the future---know this
> 
> YOU CAN/WILL NEVER HAVE ANY CHANCE AT A SUCCESSFUL MGE. IF YOU ARE GONE 9 to 10 MONTHS OF THE YEAR
> 
> I don't care what your spouse tells you about being gone---it is not a normal mge., to be gone, and leave your spouse by themselves for all that time.
> 
> If you have to be gone, and that is the only way to be financially successful---than do not get married.


Agreed.


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## Lost in Hell

So I have been talking to her a couple times daily, sometimes for several hours at a time. (I just don't sleep-sserously). I found out more details last night that I thought she had already put to rest. 

Once again the truth has been getting covered up. I told her from the start that all I wanted was the truth, regardless of what is actually is. She is very much in need of help. 

I now know that the "instantly regretted it" was a lie. That is what I believe anyway. The physical side of this, thus far according to her, was at the hotel only, not on the boat. Last night after me asking again "Would you like to tell me anything" she let me in on what happened on the boat. I simply couldn't believe her legs got so messed up from "falling". She initially told me nothing other than a walk alone with him, she was drunk and fell several times.

After an hour or so I asked again and she said they made out.

After another hour or so I asked again and the revelation of oral came to light. I still don't fully believe what she said about getting them (oral only). 

I have over the years had what I thought was a very active sex life with her and never in my years have I done that much damage from full days of sex, let alone from just oral. So she had multiple physical encounters from the start. 

I asked her if she "instantly regretted" (her words) it how she could carry on with everything the way she did. When I believed it was the hotel only I could possibly believe it, with the exception of her actions during the visit. She was treated like an absolute ***** by this man and she still had it in her to hop on and finish herself off.

But now I see, if she regrets anything, it is getting caught. 

I have my Lawyer consult today, she has IC today. 

On another note, everyone in her family except the Dad had at some point knowledge of what was going on and in one case even encouraged her to continue this behavior. Some seriously ****ed up family values.


By the way, I informed her of the advice I was getting and pointed her to this website. She pointed out a few other threads similar to this. In the interest of being honest I pointed her to this thread. She may or may not in the future post here to give her side of the story. 

I would ask that if she does, please do not berate her too much. She is still someone I care about, although at this point I don't know why, and do not wish to see in pain anymore than she has too. 


Again, thank you all for the advice. It gives me the outside perspective on all of this that I was hoping to get. 

I bought "Women's Infidelity" and am on Chapter 2. This is scary so far, because of the similarities.


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## warlock07

Hi LostinHell's wife


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## MOMMY2ONE

My prayers go out to u , I know how you feel I just found out a few weeks ago that my husband cheated on me .I suspected he was for a while but now have solid evidence which he denies. I too have that feelin of wanting to work things out but I have to respect myself as a person and focus on my son and on gettin these horrible feelings and thoughts out my head so I opted for the divorce cause I deserve better for me and my son. Good luck I know it's difficult stay strong.


Lost in Hell said:


> Am I crazy for even having the faintest feeling of wanting to work things out? I'm not sure I can ever live with myself knowing I gave up on myself for her.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NSaudagar

Hey..... 
Listen, don't do that.
This is time to show ur love.

U know wt a wife wants from her husband. Just a Lot of Love that he doesn't do with anyone. And u need to show it to her.

U have to trust on her. Everyone makes mistakes in his life bt other has to give a chance to do it right.

So......
I suggest u that give a chance to your wife nd show ur love on her.
Nd see ur problem get solved.

Good Luck, Bye


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## Lost in Hell

MOMMY2ONE said:


> My prayers go out to u , I know how you feel I just found out a few weeks ago that my husband cheated on me .I suspected he was for a while but now have solid evidence which he denies. I too have that feelin of wanting to work things out but I have to respect myself as a person and focus on my son and on gettin these horrible feelings and thoughts out my head so I opted for the divorce cause I deserve better for me and my son. Good luck I know it's difficult stay strong.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's always a compromise. When your heart and your head stop fighting over what is right, you ultimately have to look out for your best interests. It may not be the easy choice, but to stay sane I think that is why I chose the path I did.


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## Lost in Hell

NSaudagar said:


> Hey.....
> Listen, don't do that.
> This is time to show ur love.
> 
> U know wt a wife wants from her husband. Just a Lot of Love that he doesn't do with anyone. And u need to show it to her.
> 
> U have to trust on her. Everyone makes mistakes in his life bt other has to give a chance to do it right.
> 
> So......
> I suggest u that give a chance to your wife nd show ur love on her.
> Nd see ur problem get solved.
> 
> Good Luck, Bye


Seriously? I have to trust her? Sounds like I'd be setting myself up for more of the same. Maybe you missed the part about me being civil and trying to work through this despite the fact that she keeps lying to me.


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## Shaggy

NSaudagar said:


> Hey.....
> Listen, don't do that.
> This is time to show ur love.
> 
> U know wt a wife wants from her husband. Just a Lot of Love that he doesn't do with anyone. And u need to show it to her.
> 
> U have to trust on her. Everyone makes mistakes in his life bt other has to give a chance to do it right.
> 
> So......
> I suggest u that give a chance to your wife nd show ur love on her.
> Nd see ur problem get solved.
> 
> Good Luck, Bye


Wow - so few lines, such awful advice.


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## bryanp

Have you gotten tested for STD's and informed the OM's significant other?


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## Shaggy

Lost - you are getting the trickle truth big time. From the easy way she hooked up the cruise, to the easy way she accepted him popping into town for a hotel hookup - this is a woman who has been doing this for a long time with many guys.

From your story her whole family has cheating as part of their lifestyle. So she's had lots of lessons on how to hook up, how to cover it up, and how to play the poor sorry spouse when caught.

Honestly - just dump this one. She's a serial cheater, from a family of serial cheaters. 

Stop wasting time trying to get to the bottom of how deep and how long she's been cheating and lying to you - now you know the tip of the iceberg and it's already TWO sessions of sex and lies. And she's only told you that much because of what you had found out.

Hook her up to a polygraph if you want to find out how many men, and how many hookups she's had since you've been together.

Or, take the knowledge you already have and be smart and file for divorce and let these slime balls who happily hook up with her - have her. they aren't getting any real prize, cause you know if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.

I also suggest finding the OM and reaching out to his wife (if he has one) and share the love of what they did together.

And as for pointing you cheating wife at these forums - I think that was a huge mistake. You're going to loose access to good advice, and she'll just get more skilled at cheating.

I really don't see how this one can be pulled from the fire. She knew darn well what she was choosing to do, and she did it multiple times.

DO NOT HAVE KIDS WITH HER.

and if she does get pregnant - demand a DNA test.


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## warlock07

Lost in Hell said:


> Seriously? I have to trust her? Sounds like I'd be setting myself up for more of the same. Maybe you missed the part about me being civil and trying to work through this despite the fact that she keeps lying to me.


It was your wife :rofl:


----------



## Lost in Hell

bryanp said:


> Have you gotten tested for STD's and informed the OM's significant other?


I'm actually still away on work. I have yet to return home since this happened 3 to 4 weeks ago.

I suggested she get tested and inform the other woman. Not sure if she will.


----------



## PHTlump

This is the trickle truth that you're seeing. As time goes on, a little more truth comes out. Eventually, you may, or may not, get the whole story.

But another poster, in another thread, wrote something that stuck with me on trickle truth and disloyal spouses lying.
"If she says they talked about work, they talked about sex.
If she says they went for coffee, they went on a date.
If she says they kissed, she gave him a BJ.
If she says they cuddled, they had sex."

So you can keep that in mind when she's giving you her version of events.

Although, realistically, since you are divorcing, you should probably stop asking for details. Assume it was a lot of sex on both the boat and in the hotel. And just move on.

Good luck.


----------



## Lost in Hell

Shaggy said:


> Lost - you are getting the trickle truth big time. From the easy way she hooked up the cruise, to the easy way she accepted him popping into town for a hotel hookup - this is a woman who has been doing this for a long time with many guys.
> 
> From your story her whole family has cheating as part of their lifestyle. So she's had lots of lessons on how to hook up, how to cover it up, and how to play the poor sorry spouse when caught.
> 
> Honestly - just dump this one. She's a serial cheater, from a family of serial cheaters.
> 
> Stop wasting time trying to get to the bottom of how deep and how long she's been cheating and lying to you - now you know the tip of the iceberg and it's already TWO sessions of sex and lies. And she's only told you that much because of what you had found out.
> 
> Hook her up to a polygraph if you want to find out how many men, and how many hookups she's had since you've been together.
> 
> Or, take the knowledge you already have and be smart and file for divorce and let these slime balls who happily hook up with her - have her. they aren't getting any real prize, cause you know if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.
> 
> I also suggest finding the OM and reaching out to his wife (if he has one) and share the love of what they did together.
> 
> And as for pointing you cheating wife at these forums - I think that was a huge mistake. You're going to loose access to good advice, and she'll just get more skilled at cheating.
> 
> I really don't see how this one can be pulled from the fire. She knew darn well what she was choosing to do, and she did it multiple times.
> 
> DO NOT HAVE KIDS WITH HER.
> 
> and if she does get pregnant - demand a DNA test.


I have a call with the lawyer in 1 hour. At this point it is not an option. I am going through with it. 

What happens after much IC will dictate whether her or I want this to work. If the answer is yes by both of us, then on to CC. If we think it may work, we start over at square one. 

I thank God I haven't had children with her.

My thoughts about her family and their actions was always a sore subject with us. I let it be known I didn't agree with some of the things they did and she hated me for it. I always thought they would be a bad influence, but she will never listen to me on that. Even now.

I know of at least one EA prior to this. I found out the same time as the PA due to picture emails. I couldn't help but notice how many people were saying this couldn't be her first time, or saying she hooked up on the boat. I didn't want to believe it, but good grief they were right. 

I put my best effort into this marriage and it wasn't enough. Granted I haven't been a saint, I honestly took for granted she would be honest with me about wanting to move on. That was something I thought we established when we first started dating seriously. 

I'm almost indifferent at this point. Almost numb to all of this. I can't explain why else I wouldn't be enraged when the truth finally comes out after so many cover up lies. <--Edit: Actually I think I do know why. I'm in the problem solving business so to speak. I formulated a logical plan to deal with this. I think about the possibilities, and a way not to let my emotions get involved. After that, all I have to do is follow my own advice. 

The polygraph sounds like a damn good idea. I will look into that.

As far as letting her know about this website/thread. It doesn't matter to me. This process will take a considerable amount of time and I doubt she will want to "fake" it that long. She knows this isn't going to be a quick fix by any means.

I was talking to her the other day and she put on lip gloss that I think taste like soap (don't like it) and she made the comment she will have to use it all up before I get home. I had to ask her if she thought we would be kissing when I came home. Because we won't be. As much as I may want to fall right back into this relationship due to being a doormat or for reasons I don't otherwise understand yet, I would most definitely not be involved with any physical contact with her until after we both cleared all the therapy and started over. I simply don't want to send the message that I think it is acceptable, just as I didn't think what she did was acceptable. 

As far as getting pregnant, I don't think that would be possible if she didn't lie about it being that time of the month for her. But either way I already looked up the laws and I would be on the hook regardless if I proved it wasn't mine. My state laws dictate that the man married to a woman is responsible legally for that child, not the man who did the deed. <--Another reason for no physical contact while I'm home. I don't want to have an accident.



Have any of you read "Women's Infidelity"? I'm chapter 6 now thanks to not sleeping. It's pretty crazy to add all of this to my situation. I can't verify any of the information, but if it's true then this needs to be required reading for people planning on getting married.


----------



## Lost in Hell

warlock07 said:


> It was your wife :rofl:


Nice. The thought crossed my mind when I saw the join date. I am chatting with her on IM and she is supposedly working on a response to add to this thread.


----------



## AngryandUsed

It looks very much the same way!


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

She is a seriel cheater, but caught once she is only feel sorry for getting caught. She will cover her loopholes in future, with her future husband. 

Say one two three and start running away from her, as much far as possible, else she will manipulate you to a false R.

Dont buy her lies any more, cheaters open their mouth to say lies. Ask her for a polygraph, she will start running away from you.


----------



## Beowulf

Lost in Hell said:


> No. Flat out no. We had an agreement that if it ever got to be too much with me being gone she would tell me to come home and I would.
> 
> I realize what I wrote sounds like I feel that way, but it isn't. I really don't enjoy being gone so much, but I was doing it for us.
> 
> All these years feel wasted at this point.


You had an agreement?

You can't agree to spend that much time away from your spouse and keep a marriage together. Why the hell do you think that the divorce rate in military families is so high? Those men and women can't help their situation. You could and didn't choose correctly. Keep this in mind for your future relationships because this one is over. You can't leave a $100 bill lying on the ground and not expect someone to pick it up and walk away with it.


----------



## Lost in Hell

Beowulf said:


> You had an agreement?
> 
> You can't agree to spend that much time away from your spouse and keep a marriage together. Why the hell do you think that the divorce rate in military families is so high? Those men and women can't help their situation. You could and didn't choose correctly. Keep this in mind for your future relationships because this one is over. You can't leave a $100 bill lying on the ground and not expect someone to pick it up and walk away with it.


You have a point and I realize that now. I took her being open and honest for granted. We both did things during our marriage to push each other away, but always seemed to work it out and move on. 

However, she did start this affair 3 days after I was "supposed" to be home. I was and am still delayed due to unforeseen events.

Either way, what is done is done. I can only hope to keep myself together long enough to get home and sort myself out.

By the way, your comment about not being able to help themselves (military) is an insult. Everyone is responsible for their own decisions and actions.


----------



## warlock07

> My state laws dictate that the man married to a woman is responsible legally for that child, not the man who did the deed. <--Another reason for no physical contact while I'm home. I don't want to have an accident.


Georgia? F*ck that sh!t !! How can lawmakers be so retarded?


----------



## bandit.45

warlock07 said:


> Georgia? F*ck that sh!t !! How can lawmakers be so retarded?


Arizona has the same law. Whoever the woman is married to is the father whether or not it is biologically his.


----------



## Machiavelli

warlock07 said:


> Georgia? F*ck that sh!t !! How can lawmakers be so retarded?


Lawmakers don't want to have to pay child support for kids they father by another man's wife. That would take all the fun out of playing with hypergamous wives who want to bang politicians.


----------



## Lost in Hell

Lost in Hell said:


> I have a call with the lawyer in 1 hour. At this point it is not an option. I am going through with it.
> 
> What happens after much IC will dictate whether her or I want this to work. If the answer is yes by both of us, then on to CC. If we think it may work, we start over at square one.
> 
> I thank God I haven't had children with her.
> 
> My thoughts about her family and their actions was always a sore subject with us. I let it be known I didn't agree with some of the things they did and she hated me for it. I always thought they would be a bad influence, but she will never listen to me on that. Even now.
> 
> I know of at least one EA prior to this. I found out the same time as the PA due to picture emails. I couldn't help but notice how many people were saying this couldn't be her first time, or saying she hooked up on the boat. I didn't want to believe it, but good grief they were right.
> 
> I put my best effort into this marriage and it wasn't enough. Granted I haven't been a saint, I honestly took for granted she would be honest with me about wanting to move on. That was something I thought we established when we first started dating seriously.
> 
> I'm almost indifferent at this point. Almost numb to all of this. I can't explain why else I wouldn't be enraged when the truth finally comes out after so many cover up lies. <--Edit: Actually I think I do know why. I'm in the problem solving business so to speak. I formulated a logical plan to deal with this. I think about the possibilities, and a way not to let my emotions get involved. After that, all I have to do is follow my own advice.
> 
> The polygraph sounds like a damn good idea. I will look into that.
> 
> As far as letting her know about this website/thread. It doesn't matter to me. This process will take a considerable amount of time and I doubt she will want to "fake" it that long. She knows this isn't going to be a quick fix by any means.
> 
> I was talking to her the other day and she put on lip gloss that I think taste like soap (don't like it) and she made the comment she will have to use it all up before I get home. I had to ask her if she thought we would be kissing when I came home. Because we won't be. As much as I may want to fall right back into this relationship due to being a doormat or for reasons I don't otherwise understand yet, I would most definitely not be involved with any physical contact with her until after we both cleared all the therapy and started over. I simply don't want to send the message that I think it is acceptable, just as I didn't think what she did was acceptable.
> 
> As far as getting pregnant, I don't think that would be possible if she didn't lie about it being that time of the month for her. But either way I already looked up the laws and I would be on the hook regardless if I proved it wasn't mine. My state laws dictate that the man married to a woman is responsible legally for that child, not the man who did the deed. <--Another reason for no physical contact while I'm home. I don't want to have an accident.
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of you read "Women's Infidelity"? I'm chapter 6 now thanks to not sleeping. It's pretty crazy to add all of this to my situation. I can't verify any of the information, but if it's true then this needs to be required reading for people planning on getting married.


Wanted to clarify. She read this and corrected me. She supposedly said this to her sister before the affair, when she was still faithful to me. 


After reading past emails I think she checked out on me last year and I didn't realize it. Makes me crazy how she would still talk to me about pregnancy planning and everything else the weekend she saw this guy.


----------



## Beowulf

Lost in Hell said:


> You have a point and I realize that now. I took her being open and honest for granted. We both did things during our marriage to push each other away, but always seemed to work it out and move on.
> 
> However, she did start this affair 3 days after I was "supposed" to be home. I was and am still delayed due to unforeseen events.
> 
> Either way, what is done is done. I can only hope to keep myself together long enough to get home and sort myself out.
> 
> By the way, your comment about not being able to help themselves (military) is an insult. Everyone is responsible for their own decisions and actions.


You misunderstood. The men and women of our military don't have a choice as to where they are deployed or for how long. You had a choice as to where you worked and could have come home at any time. You made a choice and it was obviously not a very good one. For what its worth I think your wife has some serious boundary issues and this probably would have happened anyway. Your absence just lit the fuse. The bomb was already there.


----------



## warlock07

Brace yourself up..You need some tough skin to hang around here as the cheating spouse. Lets see if you are up to some extreme bashing.


Oh..From the looks of it, Lostinhell seems to be pretty much decided on divorce. Are you still hoping to continue the marriage?(It wasn't clear from his posts)




> I did not do this just simply to hurt him, I did not think through my actions and the intense hurt he would feel from it.


Come on!!!


----------



## Lost in Hell

I am a bit under the influence right now, so this has taken me several attempts to type correctly. I hope she can see other perspectives as I have. 

I now know I was a dumb F$ck for being gone for so long, but I did it for both of us to get ahead in our lives. For both our futures. I know we both gave each other the wrong signals. 

Either way I see the error of my ways as I have read no les than 11 books and countless threads on how to make us work and have worked on making myself a better person for her. I acknowledge the fact I have been far from the perfect husband due to my trust issues/PTSD(according to her). I attempted to get past that to make her happy. To little to late for me. 

And all of you bitter husbands that don't want to step back and look at the big picture: learn from me. I tried, but I was too late. Listen to the clues. Attempt to read her mind. I failed, but maybe you will succeed.


----------



## bandit.45

> I now know I was a dumb F$ck for being gone for so long, but I did it for both of us to get ahead in our lives. For both our futures. I know we both gave each other the wrong signals.
> 
> Either way I see the error of my ways as I have read no les than 11 books and countless threads on how to make us work and have worked on making myself a better person for her. I acknowledge the fact I have been far from the perfect husband due to my trust issues/PTSD(according to her). I attempted to get past that to make her happy. To little to late for me.



None of this is worthy of being cheated on. 

You may be 50% responsible for the demise of the marriage, but Ellebee owns her affair 100%. Remember that.


----------



## warlock07

So Ellebee, you will not be posting your side of the story then?


----------



## Lost in Hell

She is driving to the place we used to share to do her taxes. I am chatting with her on IM. Edited to removed jab.


----------



## chaos

LIH are you in counseling?


----------



## Beowulf

ElleBee said:


> I feel like it's probably healthier for him to have his own outlet here. I will if you wish and if I have his permission, but I suspect if I did that this would turn into either a marriage counseling session by 6000 people or finger pointing, neither of which is constructive. I did consider posting in a different thread, possibly in the Ladies Lounge or even in this section, doesn't matter, but it will give people the choice and not hijack Lost's conversation. I want him to continue to vent.
> 
> Thoughts?


You should start your own thread. We have had couples with simultaneous threads going before and I think it helped both spouses. Be prepared for the potential harsh post or two and even the more helpful ones may sting a bit. People here tend to speak their minds openly and honestly.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Warlock, is this the first time both WS and BS are in the same thread? But we are yet to get the other side of the story.


----------



## Lost in Hell

So I had a huge blow-up last night. Note to self-do not drink thinking it will help you sleep. (I'm a light weight. By that I mean I drink 10-20 servings a year) For some reason I thought it would stop my mind from racing. I should have known better. 

I must have unloaded for hours. I thought it would make me feel better, but it didn't.  If Elle talks to me today I will surprised. 

Would it be better to take a few days off from all of this? I have been pushing hard to keep communicating. Maybe I am pushing too hard. 

I thought I had a little self-restraint through all of this until last night. No yelling, no threats, but I spewed verbal hate to try and make her feel the way I do. I'm still trying to wrap my head around some of the things she said. Specifically when she told me she regretted it-after the very first kiss, yet she continued. That is what is killing me. How can you regret the first kiss and keep things going for weeks and progressing physically? I guess whenever I get IC I may understand.


----------



## warlock07

Stop drinking first. Never helps in such situations. Only makes them worse.

When she say she regretted, I guess she regretted having to do this to you, not actually regretted doing this. But then she might have thought no one should know and everything will be fine as it was.

That means(though she might deny or might not realize this) she does not respect you enough. Think about it., You don't just trip and end up having sex with someone. And it was not a one time thing. See, you have to flirt with the other guy first. Maybe a little bit of sexting. After that, maybe some kissing . Fooling around. Removing your clothes. Then the actual intercourse. Don't tell me that at no point did she realize that these would hurt you. Let us assume that she did that in the heat of the moment. What about the next time or time after that? She surely had time to think about it. Maybe she did but she did not care. 

Bottomline is that if she is feeling(if at all) bad it is because she is feeling guilty for putting you through this. Maybe her morals(that she learnt from her family) make her unsuitable for a marriage or Long distance relationships.


----------



## Lost in Hell

warlock07 said:


> Stop drinking first. Never helps in such situations. Only makes them worse.
> 
> When she say she regretted, I guess she regretted having to do this to you, not actually regretted doing this. But then she might have thought no one should know and everything will be fine as it was.
> 
> That means(though she might deny or might not realize this) she does not respect you enough. Think about it., You don't just trip and end up having sex with someone. And it was not a one time thing. See, you have to flirt with the other guy first. Maybe a little bit of sexting. After that, maybe some kissing . Fooling around. Removing your clothes. Then the actual intercourse. Don't tell me that at no point did she realize that these would hurt you. Let us assume that she did that in the heat of the moment. What about the next time or time after that? She surely had time to think about it. Maybe she did but she did not care.
> 
> Bottomline is that if she is feeling(if at all) bad it is because she is feeling guilty for putting you through this. Maybe her morals(that she learnt from her family) make her unsuitable for a marriage or Long distance relationships.


This is exactly what I think too. As much as I have been trying to get to this point, I have yet been able to articulate this. Spot on with my thinking.


----------



## cledus_snow

_"I know I will never forgive her for what she did. What I don't know is if I can ever get past what she did enough to have a relationship with her after everything settles."_

your best bet is to move on completely. extricate yourself from this toxic situation, which includes her enabling immoral family members.

you don't need counseling to tell you that. 

(_btw, there is no way you should even be considering having children with this woman_.)


----------



## hookares

ElleBee said:


> I feel like it's probably healthier for him to have his own outlet here. I will if you wish and if I have his permission, but I suspect if I did that this would turn into either a marriage counseling session by 6000 people or finger pointing, neither of which is constructive. I did consider posting in a different thread, possibly in the Ladies Lounge or even in this section, doesn't matter, but it will give people the choice and not hijack Lost's conversation. I want him to continue to vent.
> 
> Thoughts?


Some people just aren't marriage material. You obviously fit the mold. Although I have never cheated on anybody, I feel that I too, am not fit for the program. What makes people comfortable with the single life is that they don't really have any consideration for others they can devote all of their attention on themselves. With no children involved, you are wasting both his time and yours trying to string this mess along.
I'll have to admit that it was a big burden off my shoulders when I found that neither of "our" children were fathered by me because it let me know that I had nothing to attempt to save.
That fits your marriage to a tee.


----------



## Initfortheduration

She is a serial cheater. She is comfortable with it. Her parents and sisters are comfortable with it, they assist her when possible, if she needs a cover to cheat . Her posts show no regret, no emotion. Her first post was literally, a joke. I would love to have a psych give her an evaluation. From a layman's view she does display sociopathic characteristics. She would have continued if possible. She was discussing getting pregnant with you, on the chance that she would have gotten knocked up with one of her guys. You would have been less surprised. I am sure she would have arranged a sperm injection from you to throw you off the track. She would have allowed you to raise another mans child, and not have given it a second thought. After reading your posts and hers, the closest description that I can come up with for her is a succubus. There is no guilt, no regret. Only her trying to manage the fall out so she can continue her ways.


She is a reprehensible skank, from a family of reprehensible skanks. Save yourself.


----------



## Shaggy

Lost in Hell said:


> Wanted to clarify. She read this and corrected me. She supposedly said this to her sister before the affair, when she was still faithful to me.
> 
> 
> After reading past emails I think she checked out on me last year and I didn't realize it. Makes me crazy how she would still talk to me about pregnancy planning and everything else the weekend she saw this guy.


Lost - she was able to talk about these things to you because:

1. She is a very practiced liar. She's done this before.

2. It's easy to lie to someone you neither love nor respect:.

3. She's stopped fearing or caring that you'll find out about her cheating. She's done it with support from her family and you've been totally unaware of it up until now. You've been the dumb husband that her and her family have laughed at about how clueless you've been about her true lifestyle when you've been gone.

Get that polygraph asap:

questions: 

-Have you had sex with other people after we got married?

-Did you have sex on the cruise

-Have you had sex with other people before the cruise

-Are you still in contact with the man from the cruise

-Do you hope to meet up with him again for sex

-Are there other men that you've had sex with in the past year?

-Are there other men you are still hooking up with

-have you cheated with more than 2 men

-have you cheated with more than 5 men 

-have you had sex being caught by your husband?


----------



## Shaggy

Lost in Hell said:


> And all of you bitter husbands that don't want to step back and look at the big picture: learn from me. I tried, but I was too late. Listen to the clues. Attempt to read her mind. I failed, but maybe you will succeed.


No you didn't fail - SHE DID

While you were away - where you faithful? YES

While you were away - was she faithful? NO

See you didn't fail. She did.


----------



## Initfortheduration

I really don't know that I would waste the money on a poly. What's the point?


----------



## Shaggy

ElleBee said:


> We're clear on that. We are going through with a divorce, we are both going to go to IC with the primary goal of deciding if being together is ultimately what EACH of us want. (Two sides) If we decide that yes, both of us are committed to moving forward then we will start from square one and begin CC and what we have referred to as "dating" again. It's a long road.
> 
> I think he's already mentioned that we've lived in separate homes for the past 11 months, even though he's gone most of the time. We did that to try to work through some of our other issues.


Elle - this isn't a "bad decision" you made. What you did isn't just a physical act with another person. 

What you actually did is betray his absolute trust in you.

It was the physical act that sealed the deal, along with the thought through way you met up with the OM, took him to the hotel etc. You didn't in a split second make a bad decision - you in a very planned way - in which you had hundreds of opportunities to stop - kept right on going and working hard on it.

have you ever put as much effort in to hooking up with your husband?

You deliberately chose to ignore any of lost's love for you or trust in you when you coldy executed your hookup(s). This shows that you did not value his love or his trust in you - because if you did value them - you would have feared loosing them. 

Think back - was fear of hurting him or fear of loosing his trust on your mind at all? Was is a concern you had that nagged at you? I don't think it was since if those were there they would have gotten you to stop during the many hours and days that you spend planning the hookup at the hotel.

Did you spend time buying nice new clothes and lingerie for you lover? Have you ever put that much effort and thought into the same for lost?

The bottom line here is that you are selfish and through your selfish actions you've betrayed a man who has been faithful and has been working hard to your future together.

Now you talk about two sides etc. That's you continuing to justify your very deliberate choice here. There is only one side here - the side of the marriage.

I hope lost stays strong and takes care of himself, I also hope he finds the strength to know that other women aren't selfish and can be trusted with his love, and that he is able to let him self trust again and find love that returns it to him and respects him, and would be so very much in fear of loosing his love and trust that they could never even contemplate letting another man close enough to become a threat, let alone letting him so close that she chooses a roll in the hay with him over her husband's love and trust.

I don't think you'll be that woman. You're no owning the betrayal you did especially the level of effort you put into doing it. You're not talking about doing whatever it takes by you to heal your husbands hurt. Instead you are talking about you getting IC and your side of the story etc. Sure you're throwing in a few words about hoping he's ok - but bottom line what you write is still all about YOU. 

You can read this post as an attack on you, but I really hope was to illustrate to both of you that this is more than a bad choice you made in the heat of the moment in a situation that you let get out of control. And that this was more than sex. It is very much a reflection of your true value of your marriage and your husband.


----------



## Shaggy

Initfortheduration said:


> I really don't know that I would waste the money on a poly. What's the point?


For closure for him, so he doesn't beat himself up down the road for not getting over this "incident".

Also if they ever do try to R, it very much sounds like Elle will want to rugsweep and put it all behind them. So he deserves the full truth about her activities before he decides to by any more of that milk.


----------



## morituri

ElleBee your point that there are two sides to every story is correct but unless LostInHell has cheated on you, the marital issues that preceded your betrayal pale in comparison. Your bad choices (violating marital boundaries that your husband pointed out to you way before your PA (physical affair)) showed lack of respect and a lack of love for him. That is why he made the choice to divorce you.

The recovery period for a betrayed spouse can take anywhere from 2 to 5 years, if it happens at all (many never recover). LostInHell will need therapy with a professional experienced in helping victims of infidelity in order to heal and allow him to have a healthy committed relationship later on. 

You may have been a good wife at one time but what you did will have a greater impact on him than all your good deeds while in the marriage, even after you are no longer in his life. That is your legacy.


----------



## Beowulf

I agree with LostinHell about the baby discussion. I'm unclear about the timeline though. Is it possible that when she was discussing having a baby she was pregnant or thought she might be pregnant from her cruise ship lover?


----------



## happyman64

Lost,
Stop drinking. It never helps the situation. If you want to vent do it here or wait Till you get home. I know being away sucks but it is out of your hands.

Get home and get into IC. You need the help so you can learn to cope with all these issues you are dealing with right now.

I think you should start your divorce from ElleBee. It is a signal for you that you need to move on to a new healthier life.

I hope your wife gets help too! She has made multiple bad choices over this past year and has dealt very hurtful blows to someone she says she loves.

ElleBee you cannot love LIH until you can learn to love and respect yourself. Your recent actions show how little you can love anyone let alone yourself.

You both need to take time apart. You both need to divorce. Do not even think of dating until your heads are on straight.

Good Luck and I do hope both of you keep posting, seeking answers and working to make both of your lives better. 

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Initfortheduration

Shaggy said:


> Elle - this isn't a "bad decision" you made. What you did isn't just a physical act with another person.
> 
> What you actually did is betray his absolute trust in you.
> 
> It was the physical act that sealed the deal, along with the thought through way you met up with the OM, took him to the hotel etc. You didn't in a split second make a bad decision - you in a very planned way - in which you had hundreds of opportunities to stop - kept right on going and working hard on it.
> 
> have you ever put as much effort in to hooking up with your husband?
> 
> You deliberately chose to ignore any of lost's love for you or trust in you when you coldy executed your hookup(s). This shows that you did not value his love or his trust in you - because if you did value them - you would have feared loosing them.
> 
> Think back - was fear of hurting him or fear of loosing his trust on your mind at all? Was is a concern you had that nagged at you? I don't think it was since if those were there they would have gotten you to stop during the many hours and days that you spend planning the hookup at the hotel.
> 
> Did you spend time buying nice new clothes and lingerie for you lover? Have you ever put that much effort and thought into the same for lost?
> 
> The bottom line here is that you are selfish and through your selfish actions you've betrayed a man who has been faithful and has been working hard to your future together.
> 
> *Now you talk about two sides etc. That's you continuing to justify your very deliberate choice here. There is only one side here - the side of the marriage.*


Excellent points.


----------



## Complexity

Initfortheduration said:


> I really don't know that I would waste the money on a poly. What's the point?


:iagree:

What does it achieve in the end any way.


----------



## bandit.45

No polygrapgh needed. Waste of time. They have already said they are going forward with D. 

This marriage looks like it has been a disaster from the get-go. 

You have Lost who chose his long distance job over his marriage, and you have ElleBee who frankly does not have a clue what marriage is.

They need to shoot this horse.


----------



## Complexity

bandit.45 said:


> No polygrapgh needed. Waste of time. They have already said they are going forward with D.
> 
> This marriage looks like it has been a disaster from the get-go.
> 
> You have Lost who chose his long distance job over his marriage, and you have* ElleBee who frankly does not have a clue what marriage is*.
> 
> They need to shoot this horse.


Precisely this. 

She's surrounded by a family of enablers and isn't even _that_ willing to fix the marriage which perhaps indicates the level of remorse and love she has for her husband. Oh and wanting to bring a baby into all of this? that's just cruel.


----------



## warlock07

bandit.45 said:


> No polygrapgh needed. Waste of time. They have already said they are going forward with D.
> 
> This marriage looks like it has been a disaster from the get-go.
> 
> You have Lost who chose his long distance job over his marriage, and you have ElleBee who frankly does not have a clue what marriage is.
> 
> They need to shoot this horse.


She posted her version here

She threadjacked someone else's post ..haha


Well, she says that he was verbally and mentally abusive and always suspicious of her through out the marriage and kicked her out numerous times times with no reason. If what she said was true(and if she was truly innocent), then it definitely was a fairly abusive relationship. 

So she showed him by cheating on him. yeah, right!!

I can see a lot of resentment built up on either sides...These two are in a toxic relationship. Both of them are abusing one another. Maybe some sort of co-dependency is holding them together... 

See this for example 



> It was the following weekend that I got a hotel the night before, went to the port, picked him up, brought him back, had sex, ate lunch, then dropped him back off at the port. His girlfriend was coming into town and would be with him for the next few weeks and then his ship was getting transferred to New York. We have not spoken since, but we also never intended to take it beyond that. I am still trying to figure out why I continued. I felt like crap. He spit on me, like they do in some pornos. It was a reminder of what was missing...that even though we fight a lot that maybe H does love me



So her husband does not spit on her like the OM did, so he does indeed love her. That is some f*cked up rationalization.

You guys should date others to find out how relationships actually work.

Note: Did you inform LIH of OM's gf existence?


----------



## Complexity

ElleBee said:


> I want to correct this: I made it clear that we could not get to a baby unless other issues were sorted out. I haven't lived in the same home with him for 11 months because I recognize that we've had problems for awhile. I told him I would not move back in until we had those problems taken care of. A baby was talked about for after I moved back in. And all of it hinged on him coming back. Be logical.


It's irrelevant what your residence arrangements were. The fact you decided to have or plan to have children in an empty shell marriage all the while you were busying yourself in an affair coupled with your husband's bemusement to what you were really up to _is_ cruel and oh not very logical......



> How do you figure I am not willing to fix the marriage?


From what you wrote in post #62. You're alluding to the fact you're not all convinced this relationship is salvageable. It seems as if reconciliation hinges on _your_ willingness as much as it does his.


----------



## warlock07

What observations did your IC make?


----------



## Beowulf

LB,

Here is your and LIH's problem in a nutshell.

*Neither one of you really gave a sh!t about the other or the marriage.
*
He took a job that was going to keep him absent from you. If you had a problem with it you should have communicated it before he left. If he left anyway you file for divorce based on abandonment. For his part, he should have realized that taking a job that would keep him away from you while you were having marital difficulties was just stupid. Even more so if he was already having trust issues.

The two of you stood in the middle of the street arguing about who did what while the karma bus bore down on you. Now you've both been run over.

Where do you go from here?

You both have to decide if you want this marriage. *NOW*

Not after he comes home (although if I were him I would already be on my way home).

Not after a divorce.

*NOW*

If either of you isn't sure. Divorce and move on. The karma bus has already caused massive injuries. Don't give it the chance to back up and run you both over once again.


----------



## gpa

Beowulf said:


> (although if I were him I would already be on my way home).


:iagree:


----------



## gpa

Well. One of y two has to buy a r-trip ticket. I do think that in this marriage there is hope and love. Be together even for a couple of days. Do not spend more time questioning yourselves and creating doubts. Its flying time dudes. For both of y.


----------



## warlock07

I was thinking that this was an exit affair too. If R, the trust will take 4- 5 years and having kids before that is stupid.


----------



## Beowulf

LIH and LB,

My wife had her affair 20 years ago. Our R was damned hard but we made it. *If you both* decide to R there is a lot of assistance available to you here on TAM and elsewhere. Help that my wife and I did not have. If you decide to divorce you have a place to post here and people to talk to. You aren't alone unless you wish to be.


----------



## Shaggy

so how was the OM contacting you ? Phone, email, chat?

You should block him because now that he's found you to available to him , he will be back for more. This is a guy who hooked up with you despite having a gf. Sounds like a real winner himself.

Married folk need to be together - and this extended apart for months is very much contributing to ending the marriage. 

The only way I can see LIH being able to take you back, is if he can see real remorse in you.

The only way I can see you going back to LIH is him and you finding a way to actually live together in the same house.

Yes duty postings will pull you apart, but that's not forever and you can have a home you share until you can both be there full time.

If the two of you can't do those things, then it's going to be a long haul for both of you through IC, but divorce may be the best for the two of you. 

and yeah, you really did mess things up starting on that cruise.

Perhaps now that he has had to actually face his worst fear: that you would cheat - he can begin to deal with facing it and find it in him to have more trust (but verified) in the future.


----------



## bandit.45

Let the divorce go on. The two of you can either reconcile and call the divorce off later, or stay together as BF/GF afterwards and go to CC. Either way, you need to accept that the marriage you had is dead. Stone cold dead. 

I think that's why you cheated LB: you had given up hope and said, "What the f*ck, why not? This guy is hot, my husband cares more about his precious job than me.... why not?" 

Not saying what you did was not wrong, but I guess I could understand where you were in your head. 

Now you'll have to help LIH get over the mind movies he will have for the next five years... if you are strong enough. F*cking the OM until you could barely walk is an image most husbands would not be eble to forgive or get past. 

I have my doubts you'll be able to stick it with him though... you guys have not exhibited any committment to one another so far, so I don't see how you would be willing to be on marital probation for the rest of your life.


----------



## Chaparral

When I first read the first few lines of this thread, I thought this is useless. A man tries to have relationship where he is basically absent for six of the seven years. Case closed. I didn't even stick around to see what happened.

Then I accidently ran across LB's thread and I'm reading along and say OMG I saw that dudes thread. LOL

LIH admits he has trust issues, so what does he do , he gets a job overseas and leaves his wife to the wolves. FOR SEVEN YEARS. What I can't figure out is what is screwed up most. LB should have been gone a long time ago. LIH wants people to believe he's been celibate six of the last seven years. Bull Sh!t

I would say the same for LB but she has offered to take poly. What a miserable life he left for LB. And he's overseas with pathological jealousy. Unbelievable. This is like when Scrooge couldn't take time for his fiancee from his business.

LIH if you can't give up your traveling job just get over LB. LB if he doesn't quit his job, go find a man to love you and make babies. You have already wasted seven years.


----------



## Chaparral

I wish we could get both sides of more stories around here.


----------



## Lost in Hell

What you'll all will never know is how much we supported each other through the hard times each of us experienced. With her past employment producing little to no income for periods of up to 6 months, this job was the one steady thing to keep the bills paid. I grew up with very little and never wanted that to happen again, nor did I want to have my future children have to endure that. It was most definitely not a simple choice of my job over her and she knew it. I didn't type out that I was actually home more than that (what I put in my original post) because in the grand scheme of things it will boil down to me being gone for far too long. 

I planned on staying home for good after my first year or so. She then wanted to go back to school because her chosen profession wasn't working out. I got mad, but supported that decision by continuing to work. She graduated. I planned on coming home by saving as I finished out my obligation to my employer. She then decided she wanted to go back to school again for another profession. I flipped out. It was finally my turn to come home. In the end I supported her and continued working to support this. And by this, I mean I may not have paid towards school, but I kept the home and other things paid for. She did shoulder some financial burden, but a small portion by comparison. I will also add she is not a big spender. Not the typical wife out there blowing money on clothes and frivolous things. At times I actually had to tell her to go buy new things.

I actually stayed home for almost a year due to an injury. I still was able to pay all the bills and knock a year of school out (online) while laid up injured. This added to the resentment. Somehow I still felt like I shouldered all the responsibility to keep things together financially, even without any real source of income. 

By this point things were getting worse in the communication department with her and me. Looking back I see now that I resented her for those decisions. 

Me kicking her out/divorce, or threatening to, was a result of me telling her what I expected and what I thought our long term outlook/plan should be to make us work, so both of us could be home. She would shut down and not talk at all to me about it, or she would agree, but as soon as I left for work, it was right back at square one.

This was a major source of my frustration and I let her know about it. I have said something to her over and over for many many years during our conversations about how to make our future work. I won't type it here, but she will know exactly what I am talking about. 

If she denies any of the above I will be surprised. 

Neither one of us started this relationship planning for it to end this way. I have changed, as has she, very much over the years. I didn't always have trust issues with her. Those developed over time, maybe from me not truly ever knowing what she will decide to do. Education, professionally, etc. The more time spent away from home and the more I supported her decisions, the more resentment and lack of trust I developed. I thought that any day now she would pack up and leave me. Now that she was marketable she would walk away. Why else would she continue to want another degree or a new profession at the cost of me being gone? ←(my thoughts) I put so much effort into giving her what she wanted in material things (education/profession) that I over looked what she needed emotionally.

A few months after she moved out I started to realize that we could in fact make this work, but we both needed to lay everything on the table, which I did. One problem with all of this is that fact that all this time she has been telling me what was wrong with me, how I was wrong for feeling the way I did about her. It was my trust issues that made things devolve into the state we had now (prior to affair). She would rationalize her decisions to do things that bothered me by chalking them up to my trust issues or me being irrational. 

I actually believed her. Everything up to this point (before affair) WAS MY FAULT. Whether it was right or wrong, I started looking in at myself. I read books and articles on how to get in touch with myself and how to cope with things. I read more books on how to mend the marriage, how to better communicate, pretty much everything I can get my hands on. 

Slowly I was coming around the bend of dealing with my issues. I thought we were actually improving. It was somewhere around the fall of last year that I had an epiphany. I literally woke up one morning and saw the light. I was going to get through this and make US work. I started to plan on how to spend more time at home. Not completely yet though, I still needed to finish my degree to make that work and still be able to pay the bills, but close to a 50/50 split with work and being home. I know some of you look at that and still say “Not enough”, but realize we have been apart for such long periods of time thus far, this new plan would be a HUGE improvement that were both looking forward to.

I can verify all of this with emails. It wasn’t until this affair occurred that I realized, I was the only one doing this. I never realized she had pretty much checked out mentally from US. Again, it was me looking back at emails that would in fact make me realize I was so hard working on myself to improve myself for her, that I over looked her actions. Remember, I truly believed this was my entire fault up until her affair. So now I wonder if this was intentional? I was once again about to be able to spend more time at home and she did another thing to make sure that didn’t happen. I look back at her deciding to change professions, get another degree, etc and wonder if that was the plan the whole time? Keep me from actually ever being able to come home for good.

Let me tell you that all along, even before this past year, I have always felt like the woman in the relationship. What I mean by that is that I was the one trying to pry into her about how she felt and what we could do to make US work. I grew up with and around families where that was typically the actions of a wife that was trying to deal with a husband that had shut down. I have always been open and honest with my wife. I grew up actually learning what not to do, rather than what to do. I saw the bad examples growing up and told myself, never will I let that happen. Never will I cheat, lie, be physically abusive, etc because I saw how bad he consequences are. I lived them as a child. 

I don’t know where I’m going with this, but I figured I would paint a bigger picture of what is going on in my head and our relationship.

I do not demonize Elle for being my wife or her actions prior to the affair. I saw them as things we needed to work through. I cannot however over look the affair. I know I will never forgive her for that. What I am trying to figure out is if I can move past that. I still very much love Elle and even now don’t want anything bad to happen. 

The day I found out about the affair (or the original lie she told me which is completely different guys/course of events/etc) I was enraged. How could she do that to me? We talked for hours because I couldn’t ever believe she would do that to me. When she was finally on her 4-hour drive home she broke down (her car). I was so worried about her well being that I stayed up until she was able to get home. I don’t understand it. 

I know it will take IC for me to start truly dealing with this. And to answer back on page 3 or 4, no haven’t received any IC yet. I do plan on it when I get home though. This forum has been insightful and I see good advice. I also see spiteful people that have been burned in the past telling me things too. I know to weigh each as each has something to learn from. 

The divorce is simply going to happen. That is my one way of showing corrective action for what she did. I feel like I would somehow be accepting what she did if I didn’t get a divorce. I truly do want to work through things with Elle in the future. I still love her very much, but what I need to figure out with IC is if this feeling is true, or is it some sort of separation anxiety that I fear. Is it going to be worth it? For Love I say yes, for some twisted emotional reason I can’t explain, I don’t know. 

Again, thanks for all the input, good or bad. Negative comments even help. I came to this forum for one reason: to get outside perspective on things. I made my decision about what I wanted to do before I posted a single thing here. I have been reading this forum for the better part of a year. I started way back when we separated. I never thought to get an account until now simply because I had nothing to offer, but I did soak up a lot of advice in that time. The comments and advice posted since have helped me stay sane and point me in the right direction.


----------



## Lost in Hell

chapparal said:


> I wish we could get both sides of more stories around here.


Some people advised against me telling her about this forum and thread. They thought she would use it against me or learn better ways to deceive and cover her actions in the future. I didn't want this to turn into an Elle bashing thread. I wanted her to tell her side of things even if it painted me in a bad light. I wanted people to point out my shortfalls so I can really understand if I was in fact the cause of all of this. If I deserve the blame, lay it on me. That is the only way to truly deal with this. 

I know some people come here simply looking for sympathy. I want to better understand all of this so I can better myself. If hat means I'm the a$$hole, then so be it. Honesty has a snowball effect. 

I didn't care that she came on here. I told her to. I believe at some level she does love me, or did. I know in my heart if once she gets help she will find out if she truly still loves me or if she just doesn't want to end this for fear of some separation anxiety-mentioned earlier by other posters. 

Some details of this affair really make me question if that is truly what it is with her. I just don't understand someone regretting their actions and still progressing the "regretful" actions for another month. All the while leading their spouse on about improving the future. 


If she determines that she doesn't love me or this is all just too much, I think she will eventually move on. I would want her to. I mentioned it much earlier in the thread that separation and divorce were the only way I saw that I could truly make her happy. Nothing I did made her happy and I didn't want to see her in pain. I knew it would crush me to actually follow through with that, but I put her happiness above mine even if I showed it in a weird way. 

As far as a poster saying I have been cheating on her, something to the effect that there is no way I could be gone this long and stayed faithful. I feel sorry for you for thinking people can't follow through with their belief structure. Other than a Polygraph, which I am willing to submit to, there is no way any of you will ever know.

If Elle thinks that is true I would love to here about it. I don't think she thinks that is true. I would never do that to another person. Think back to our agreement, which others have already pointed out as bull****. We had an agreement that if either one of us had enough or wanted to move on, we would tell the other and fix it or move on. It would hurt for both of us, but at least would be honest and open with each other instead of deceitful and ultimately end up crushing the other. 

I see now that the agreement wouldn't have been needed had the communication been the way it should have been. We would have been open with each other and worked through the problems before it ever even got close to needing an out. 

I finally got a full nights sleep last night since this started. I feel so much better today. And for those concerned about me drinking. I did it simply to go to sleep. I don't drown my problems in the bottle. Another thing I learned growing up with an alcoholic parent. Thats probably why I don't really drink much.


----------



## Lost in Hell

Initfortheduration said:


> I would love to have a psych give her an evaluation.


She is actually somewhat in the business which make it that much harder to figure out if she used that against me or if she really is that far gone.


----------



## Lost in Hell

Shaggy said:


> 3. She's stopped fearing or caring that you'll find out about her cheating. She's done it with support from her family and you've been totally unaware of it up until now. You've been the dumb husband that her and her family have laughed at about how clueless you've been about her true lifestyle when you've been gone.


This is something I have no doubts about.


----------



## Lost in Hell

Shaggy said:


> For closure for him, so he doesn't beat himself up down the road for not getting over this "incident".
> 
> Also if they ever do try to R, it very much sounds like Elle will want to rugsweep and put it all behind them. So he deserves the full truth about her activities before he decides to by any more of that milk.


She very much wanted to do the rug sweep and forget everything about all of this. 

Her first post is pretty much how she has been filling me on the details. Her response to my letter to her about this (when I initially found out) was a 12 page response in which she detailed all the other factors in her life that led up to her getting a hotel room and how she was actually with another man that was her sisters unwanted boyfriend and how nothing happened. This was of course nothing but complete lies. Keep in mind this in before I found out the truth via emails. 

After I started quoting emails is when the truth and more lies started coming out. I would catch her in a lie and then she would give in. I would find her in another lie and she would give in. This took place over and over. 

I told her to t to lay it all on me. I was at rock bottom and I didn't want to start crawling up only to find out another lie and end right back at the bottom. This cycle continued over and over. 

I still don't know if I got the whole truth or just enough.


----------



## warlock07

I still think there are more skeletons in the closet(Her stories seem a bit off). But I also think this is as far she will let on(she knows emails are all you have). 

LIH, you said you had trust issues through out the marriage. Why do you think you had them? Was it anything ElleBee did or were they remnants from past relationships?

Edit: So the sister's bf was a complete lie?


----------



## Lost in Hell

warlock07 said:


> I still think there are more skeletons in the closet(Her stories seem a bit off). But I also think this is as far she will let on(she knows emails are all you have).
> 
> LIH, you said you had trust issues through out the marriage. Why do you think you had them? Was it anything ElleBee did or were they remnants from past relationships?
> 
> Edit: So the sister's bf was a complete lie?



I think when we started our marriage I was a different person, as was she. Looking back I never worried about her actions like have in the more recent years. I never worried about here going out for a girls night out, or going on vacation with her family without me. That developed over time. I noticed little changes in her that peeked my interest. So I guess, over time her actions made me trust her less and less. I would tell her things that made me uncomfortable and she would continue doing them. Telling me it was my mind that was the problem. If she told me something that made her uncomfortable I changed, I stopped doing it. 

For instance, years ago she told me having an ex-girlfriend as friends online (myspace) made her uncomfortable. I told her that yes, she was an ex, but she married my best friend after we broke up. But I did end up removing her and never contacted her again. I told her the same thing about her ex's or other guys on her pages and she never removed them. I chalked it up to MY TRUST ISSUE that she repeatedly told me was MY issue.

For instance. Right after this cruise she wouldn't even talk to me about anything she did on the cruise. I got second hand information about it via Facebook. I didn't think much of it as she had to get right back to work and catch up on all the work she missed while being gone. 

I started seeing pictures of another man (not the affair-the supposed unwanted boyfriend of her sister) and that got me thinking. She never even mentioned this guy until I confronted her about the hotel room. I did however see comments on her FB page by him and her family about things that made me uncomfortable. Like name tags with "pornstar" or "evil mind" or stuff to that effect. 

That is what truly got me looking into what actually happened and why I started questioning why she was taking multiple trips to a town 4 hours away when she would spend less than 24 hours in town. 


While I do think I had issues from past relationships, I don't think I brought them to our marriage. I think they were in the back of my mind, but not a cause for my current line of thinking. To say they weren't there would be a lie. I take experiences from my life and try to grow from them. Try to improve. It sounds corny, but I continually try to improve myself and our relationship for the better. I always thought people that grew content fell into ruts that would cause problems later in life. I always wanted us to look for improvement. 

As far as never truly knowing about her past indiscretions, I will never know unless she tells me. I had feelings or hunches many times in the past, and have confronted her about it, but nothing ever came of it. She has mentioned it in her posts about me accusing her, but I think any husband (who at the time was not scheduled to be home) answers his wife's phone in the middle of the night and hears another man asking where to meet her would think the same thing I did. WTF!? 

Or any husband who finds out after the fact about his wife going out to bars (with or without co-workers) would think the worst. Why wouldn't she just tell me thats where she was? And of course you can understand why I would be concerned about her going out and partying with her sisters.

I thought these actions were inappropriate for a married spouse to do. People don't go to bars without realizing that most guys are looking to hook up. Especially if you go out without your spouse and deceive him about where you were. 

I realize people need to go out and blow off some steam and she intact informed me about going out with 3 male co-workers after our blow up (may have been before I found out the truth and still believing it was the sisters boyfriend story) and I told her thanks for telling me, I am uncomfortable with you going out to a bar with 3 other men, but I understand you need to blow off steam. Have fun. 

But there are things that I truly find inappropriate for a married spouse to do, male or female, and she has over the years always told me that it had everything to do with my trust issues. I may be a little more old fashioned in my line of thinking due to past experiences, but I always tried to make her comfortable with my actions. She was uncomfortable about me going to a strip club for a bachelor party, so I didn't go. I didn't even go to one for my own bachelor party. I respected her enough not to put her in that position. 

Granted there have been plenty of times in the past I did things that made her uncomfortable, and I have told her about it after the fact. (after the fact simply because I couldn't exactly pick up a phone and call her) Every detail. I was hoping to convey to her that despite doing what she didn't like, I was open enough to tell her about it. Keep in mind, I did nothing during these occasions that would damage my integrity. I was along for the ride so to speak. 

One instance I can think of: I was in a very poor country working with some very important people. (I will never tell you all what I do for a living so I can only hope to convey my point with other things-and Elle knows what I do and has a general idea of the weight behind my work) So we have an incredible bad day. I was a liaison so to speak and my responsibility was to mend the problem that occurred. The very important people wanted to go to a brothel and it was my job to make sure they had good enough of a time to look past the problem that occurred that day. (Prositution is not illegal in the country this occurred in. And please save judgment on this-I know I can still be prosecuted under US law.) I ended up paying for 3 hookers to keep these people happy. She was upset with this after I told her. I guess my point is that I tried to make her understand why I did it and hopefully she would realize despite it making her uncomfortable, I still felt like she should know. I wanted to keep the honest and open lines of communication going. 

I never heard much about it after that, with the exception of now. She brought it back up after this affair occurred. 


I don't know where I was going with that other than to point out that, yes I have done things to make her uncomfortable, but I never deceived her and have always been honest. Also keep in mind that those actions were not normal and have never been repeated-brothel part.


----------



## Lost in Hell

warlock07 said:


> I still think there are more skeletons in the closet(Her stories seem a bit off). But I also think this is as far she will let on(she knows emails are all you have).
> 
> LIH, you said you had trust issues through out the marriage. Why do you think you had them? Was it anything ElleBee did or were they remnants from past relationships?
> 
> Edit: So the sister's bf was a complete lie?


The part of picking him up to run interference, going to the hotel, looking at photos, etc-YES.

The part about him actually being a boyfriend to the sister-I have no idea.

He may have had some part in all of this, on the boat, after the fact, I have no idea. He was most definitely in plenty of pictures. Sad part is the family knew of him and the other guy that she actually did this with.

But original story she told me, where he was an integral part-Heck yes. All lies.


----------



## warlock07

She took multiple trips to this town? She mentioned that it was just twice..

LIH, the most common thing a cheater who wants to R is put down their affair and the affair partner.(ElleBee does come off as honest, but look at the lies she told you)

"I did not even enjoy it."

"I regretted the decision immediately"(you got this one)

"You were bigger than him." 

"You have better technique."

"We did it only once and it wasn't even good"

The cheater tries to serve to the betrayed's ego so as to make R easy on his mind. She will justify it to herself that it will only cause you more pain. Lets be honest here, If she did something much worse with OM or a different guy, she is not going to tell you. Plain and simple. She has only to lose by divulging this information and make R that much harder. You will have to accept this if you plan to reconcile at some point.


----------



## WhereAmI

I'm glad you're going through with the divorce. Honestly, unless she's willing to cut every last toxic enabler out of her life there is no future. She doesn't seem like the type to take that big of a step. With all the soul searching you're doing now you'll end up a happier and healthier man, which will likely translate into a better future relationship. Don't look back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

WhereAmI said:


> I'm glad you're going through with the divorce. Honestly, unless she's willing to cut every last toxic enabler out of her life there is no future. She doesn't seem like the type to take that big of a step. With all the soul searching you're doing now you'll end up a happier and healthier man, which will likely translate into a better future relationship. Don't look back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well said!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lost in Hell

warlock07 said:


> She took multiple trips to this town? She mentioned that it was just twice..


Her family lives in this particular town, so multiple visits could be just to see them. I don't think she ever met either guy before all of this started unless she met them on some past family cruise, but I think that is unlikely.


----------



## Shaggy

LIH.

After reading your and her stories, my advice is do the divorce and the move on.

Her words don't have either remorse, love, or care in them. They have blame, excuses, self justification.

That's not someone who wants to work on things, that's someone who I do think has other secrets in hiding still, and is defiant in her view that she is the true victim.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

Shaggy said:


> LIH.
> 
> After reading your and her stories, my advice is do the divorce and the move on.
> 
> Her words don't have either remorse, love, or care in them. They have blame, excuses, self justification.
> 
> That's not someone who wants to work on things, that's someone who I do think has other secrets in hiding still, and is defiant in her view that she is the true victim.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think they're both victims of bad decisions but only LIH is the victim of infidelity. I'm not sure they're ready for the work it will take to put this back together.

I also believe there is more to the story.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

I totally agree. There is more to the story and they are both not ready to do the heavy lifting that is needed to fix the marriage and have a loving, trustful relationship.


----------



## bandit.45

happyman64 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I totally agree. There is more to the story and they are both not ready to do the heavy lifting that is needed to fix the marriage and have a loving, trustful relationship.


Problem is neither one of them is willing to give up the whole story.... from either side.

Shoot this sorry horse!!!


----------



## risenshine

ok..how does a marriage work if the guy is gone for 9-10 months. I am married to a workaholic.
Get REAL already! Sex is a REAL need. It's a wonder how some men live like that 9-10 months away. Were you doing it with someone else while away? Cause if not..its so not real or normal!


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## Lost in Hell

Update

We have been talking a lot in a constructive manner. Both want to work this out. But she keeps lying to me. I still plan to follow through with the divorce.

I have been getting the trickle truth still as of today. Why is it so hard to understand when someone says, "Just tell me the truth regardless of what it is." 

I ask a direct question about what happened. I get a story. A few days pass and I ask again. I get more to the story with an explanation that she didn't purposely omit the detail, she thought it didn't matter. 


Apparently that means, "I'll tell you what I want, when I want, and that's only if you ask the right question when I feel like tell you".

She has had 2 IC sessions so far. She says it helps, but I beg to differ if she still is lying to me. 

So far everything people on here have said has pretty much been coming true. 

And as for the marriage working with me being gone so much, obviously that didn't work. I do think it is possible with the right communication, but when one person can not tell the truth it definitely shortens the life span. 

I don't plan on being gone so much in the future, but if I'm not married I have no reason to be home more.


----------



## warlock07

Lies by omission.

What part did she omit?


----------



## Lost in Hell

Stages of lies as outright lies or "omission"


-The sex/oral was in the hotel only

-The oral on boat revealed

-Oral in car the weekend of the "shopping trip"

-Sex in the car for the "shopping trip"

There is obviously more in the details. Too much to list since this started to as a 12 page lie.

This is sickening considering I have been putting myself out there trying to mend this. I knew I was getting a divorce regardless, but I was hoping to start over fresh the right way. The honest way, but I see that may be too much to ask. I keep getting lies or omissions as each day passes. 

I don't know at what point I will just stop taking this. I'm pretty much ready just to right her off though. This entire time all I asked for was the truth, so I know what I truly have to overcome. 


And I still don't have a reason why all this occurred or how if she regretted it she continued over the span of about a month. 

I may just need to cut my losses and move on. This is getting to be too much for me.


Is this normal for a WS to continue to lie when they say they want to work this out?


----------



## Lost in Hell

Also to add, I don't think she will be coming back here. She told her therapist and was advised against it. Thought she would get too beat up here. Obviously her therapist is more worried about her well being.

She told me to use the same therapist so the therapist could get both sides of the story. I don't think they even approached the infidelity topic yet. 

I will most definitely not use the same therapist. I find it hard to believe a single person can objectively counsel two people with opposing views. Also, her therapist advised her against telling me further about the affair. Basically lie to me. Not sure if thats standard or not. It was justified so I didn't have to continue dealing with the affair. I don't know how that would be any good when I keep asking for the truth about the affair. But who knows, maybe she is lying about that too.


----------



## Shaggy

Yes it's very common for them to continue to lie.

For a number reasons: selfishness, fear, cowardice, secrecy, fear of betraying their AP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thorburn

*Is this normal for a WS to continue to lie when they say they want to work this out? *

Yea, very normal for liars to lie. When a liar speaks they are lying. It is by their actions not their words that you know they are committed. My WS told me on the phone she loved me while the OM was sitting beside her in the car. My WS told me on the phone she loved me while lying naked in a hotel room next to the OM.

It is also normal for you to want the information but if you are going for D, just move on.

This stuff will bug you and seriously is only important if she wants to R.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

I would say that therapist is the absolute LAST one that you would want to use.


----------



## Shaggy

You need to understand the therapist is trying to help your wife feel good and be happy.

The therapist is not trying to save the marriage, teach your wife right or wrong, seek truth or honesty.

The therapist isnt trying to help the marriage heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

I think the therapist is looking to make some money here. ElleBee watch out if you are looking at this thread.. Check her credentials.

What is the purpose of getting divorced if you plan to start afresh. Someone help me out here. I'm not sure I'm not the only one thinking that this is extremely stupid.


----------



## gpa

warlock07 said:


> I think the therapist is looking to make some money here. ElleBee watch out if you are looking at this thread.. Check her credentials.
> 
> What is the purpose of getting divorced if you plan to start afresh. Someone help me out here. I'm not sure I'm not the only one thinking that this is extremely stupid.


:iagree: at all


----------



## Lost in Hell

warlock07 said:


> I think the therapist is looking to make some money here. ElleBee watch out if you are looking at this thread.. Check her credentials.
> 
> What is the purpose of getting divorced if you plan to start afresh. Someone help me out here. I'm not sure I'm not the only one thinking that this is extremely stupid.


Hope for the best, plan for the worst. 

I can see this is already paying off. She can't stop lying. How do I know when/if she starts telling me the truth? 

Basically I am covering the spread. With our talks we both know or so I thought) that we wanted to try and make this work, but plan for the worst in the event that one of us has enough. I have been very considerate of her through this whole process. With the exception of the one blow up I had, I have remained calm and supportive of her through this. I have bent over backwards so far to help her get help and work this out. I sort of thought it needs to go the other way, but I know she is weak at times. 



As far her therapist helping her, not us, I knew that would be the case. I was stating the obvious, not being sarcastic. I can't convey that typing.


----------



## warlock07

Or why don't you meet her therapist for a couple of sessions and see if it will work ? I mean, she did portray herself well even though most the people knew your story first. The counselor has no idea about you. So she might be biased for now. If you think it isn't working you both can discuss and change the counselor.


----------



## Lost in Hell

Your point is well taken, but how am I supposed to even trust her to try and make us work when I can't even trust her to tell the truth? 

I couldn't have been more direct with my line of questioning or about what I think it will take to make us work. But somehow she still continues to lie, even after I tell her that if she lied I would be back at the bottom of the pit. She did it anyway. 

We have literally talking more than 4 hours a day. Around 8 hours a day on the weekends. It's not a lack of communication. 

My theory is she is just trying to provoke me to make me give up and call everything off to make us work.

There is a better therapist I was looking at. I have no real experience with IC in the area, but I read plenty of reviews. The therapist I am looking at, specializes in infidelity.


----------



## Shaggy

LiH this is where your gut and her actually being with you come into play. You have to be around and pick up the body language and listen to your gut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sinnister

I'm sorry you're going through this. And honestly I'm sorry for your wife too. 

It's a sad case of 2 big issue that could have been resolved (you being away and lack of communication) to 1 big issue infidelity.

Now she is getting less than stellar advice from a councelor. This is an example of why I am not a fan of IC or counceling in general. You pay out the nose for information you could have received from talking to yourself in a mirror most times. And other times just flat out bad advice.


----------



## Chaparral

Her counselor is telling her to, basically, lie so she is stuck in the middle. She is afraid to tell every detail for fear of losing you. Stuck again. Although some people want every detail, you can't tell it helped them from reading the posts around here. I didn't even consider asking about them many years ago. I took it more of a competition between the OM and me and I won. To me that meant I was the better man and she knew it. Later, I broke up with her but for other reasons. Details make mind movies that are just nightmare material. If you want to move on, do it. Read the wayward spouse instructions with her. And reflect for a few weeks about what you really want. Don't ever again consider a long distance relationship.


----------



## Initfortheduration

Lost in Hell said:


> Also to add, I don't think she will be coming back here. She told her therapist and was advised against it. Thought she would get too beat up here. Obviously her therapist is more worried about her well being.
> 
> She told me to use the same therapist so the therapist could get both sides of the story. I don't think they even approached the infidelity topic yet.
> 
> I will most definitely not use the same therapist. I find it hard to believe a single person can objectively counsel two people with opposing views. Also, her therapist advised her against telling me further about the affair. Basically lie to me. Not sure if thats standard or not. It was justified so I didn't have to continue dealing with the affair. I don't know how that would be any good when I keep asking for the truth about the affair. But who knows, maybe she is lying about that too.


OK Lost, Tell your wife, based on the counsel she got from her therapist, you will speed the divorce along as quickly as possible. Since her counselor is encouraging her to remain a lying, cheating skank. Just say "No problem, You think someone you have talked to for a couple of hours and is advising you to continue to lie to me, someone who is encouraging you to remain deceitful to me. And you are choosing her advice? Tell you what, go move in with her". Then show the tramp the door.


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## Will_Kane

_Stages of lies as outright lies or "omission"
-The sex/oral was in the hotel only
-The oral on boat revealed
-Oral in car the weekend of the "shopping trip"
-Sex in the car for the "shopping trip"

Is this normal for a WS to continue to lie when they say they want to work this out?_

She has already confessed a lot of bad behavior, and each additional thing she has confessed is not that much worse than the thing before, so you're wondering why not just get it all out at once?

It is not normal to continue to lie but it is typical.

She is holding onto something really big. Once she is willing to tell you that big thing, the thing that makes all of this other stuff she's already told you pale in comparison, then the dam will open and all the rest of the truth will come pouring out. Who knows what that big thing is? Additional partners? Kinds of kinky sex she never let you have? Your guess probably is better than mine.


----------



## Initfortheduration

Wake her up early this weekend, sit her a$$ down and make write down everything she did. And tell her there will be quiz afterwards. Its that or you're out.


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## desert-rose

Will finding out all the details really help you? I don't think so. If she has decided to commit to the marriage and you have, too, then maybe you guys can find more positive ways of figuring out how to strengthen and build a new relationship. She cheated. She did the worst thing she could have done. Imagine the most horrible thing she could do and just assume she did it. If you want to try to forgive her and work it out, you have to put the past behind you and try to build from a clean slate. Start over. She isn't telling you the truth, dragging it out of her won't help. What you want to do instead, is see if you can find out from her WHY she did it and what her reasons were. Then you can find ways to safeguard against it. Also, make sure what she gives you is full transparency from now on. You may never know the truth of the details of the affair. You're most hurt because you were left out of her intimate life, while finding out the details might give you the appearance of being brought in again, it won't really put you there. She made a wall around herself and put you on the outside and invited someone else in. That's the part that hurts, right? The details won't put you on the inside of that wall. The key is to see if she is willing to tear it down and build a new one around you both and protect your bond with each other rather than just protecting herself. Try to focus on building your new relationship rather than re-hashing the past, even if the past is haunting you because it's going to haunt you whether you know more or less about it. This might not be what you're going through, but this is how I see your situation.


----------



## Lost in Hell

michzz said:


> Yes, the why is a huge part of recovery. So is expression of genuine remorse and regret.
> 
> However, it is difficult to know "why" until you can define "what happened."
> 
> For example, being told she cheated is not enough information if what really happened is she cheated every other night for five years.
> 
> Details and context inform.


This is it exactly. 

I don't know what I am supposed to get past without knowing what she did. Did she do lines of coke in the process of getting intoxicated? Did she expose herself to STD's by not using a condom? 

Being told she regretted it instantly sort of doesn't fly with me. How can you instantly regret something and continue that behavior for another month? And I still haven't gotten the answer as to why? 

I get 12 pages of lies or 20 minutes about her family made her mad. 

She says she didn't believe me when I said we needed to start planning on kids. Which is one thing she points to for this affair. My actions for close to the past year would indicate otherwise. I am fixing up our place to rent or sell, I bought a lot to build a house on so the kids can grow up in a nice neighborhood. I have been financial planning for the long term future the entire time. 

Oh and the day we actually planned out the ovulation cycles she had just got done having sex with the other guy. Literally an hour after the fact.WTF does that say?

Oh and the details don't matter? I was coping with everything she told me the far just fine, or as fine as to be expected. I needed to know so I have a no sh!t idea of what I must overcome. Stare the problem in the face and deal with it, not sweep it under the rug and blindly go on with life.


----------



## Lost in Hell

ElleBee said:


> I see you left out a couple parts since you thought I wasn't coming back. I wish I could respond to everything, but it is difficult for a couple reasons. I am typing on my old crappy phone since my iphone was remotely wiped and shut down yesterday, but not before it let out a loud beep, blinked and showed a message "thanks for playing the lying cheating spouses game". That was after I got almost four hours of instant messages in which I was questioned over and over again. I manage a small team in a small office with no walls and no privacy. My desk is literally in the center of the room that the front door is in. we answer phones and greet people. I was called names all over again. That was fun. What was super fun was the email that the phone was remotely wiped, and then later when I got home, the exact same thing happened to my laptop., so I have no computer. Your sister called me last night. She knew by your facebook status that something was up. good luck getting a full story out of him. This is his way of opening up to me. We were playful the night before, bonding, then I woke up to a letter saying he was uncomfortable with how quickly things moved, so I said that was fine too. He had suggested an online journal for communication between us. I thought it was a great idea. Very positive letter, just stating that he had his reservations, which I was supportive of. I then had to race to get ready for work. It was nonstop from the moment I walked in fifteen minutes late from having given him three respect of responding immediately to turf letter after reading out. I know it bothers him to wait for a response . I checked my email once and saw a letter from him again, this one more like a love letter almost. It was so sweet that I teared up. I definitely did not have the time to respond and did not have the privacy to get into messenger.. By the time I did, he had already changed his mind again, gone in and deleted it our of my email account thinking that I didn't want those things. Within the hour I was being called names, within three hours I was getting blown up with texts and an unknown call on my cell at work in addition to the instant messages with a grand finale of three iphone being wiped, and as it turns out, my computer as well. Bravo. Why? Great question. Because we had a breakthrough where I said I want everything out on the table and described how a had sex in the car. What we did before, after, howe it happened etc. when asked if we had oral sex then, I told him that we did. I am answering anything he wants to know. I did not intentionally leave thatthat that out. I really just saw that as part of the sex act. I was not trying to cover it up. But he is certain that I deliberately lied to him about it. as pissed as your sister is with me, she actually agreed with me on that one point. She really didn't agree on anything else we talked about last night though. Also,.in digging through my emails some more, came across an email I sent out laure. To a mutual friend. That he says he doesn't know very well. You know him well enough top lend him $ 300...I told him no.he was a police officer who worked night shifts. The email simply said "I have a question for you. Is your number still the same?" I don't remember what it was about, but I went to this friend a lot four advice on domestic violence. I wanted to know if being kicked out of my own home was something he could even do and if I called the cops, would I have to press charges? Because a DV charge would look very bad on his record and he should lose his job.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would gladly post up our conversation from last night. Aside from calling you a liar or sick in the head, I see no other name calling. 

And yes, domestic violence charges for telling you I was going to put the cats in the pound was a bit much. 

As for calling "our" friend. At 2am while I wasn't even in the state? Really?

Oh, and the iPhone and computer. Yes that was me. I am tired of being lied to and paying for the service you use to do it.


----------



## snap

Lost in Hell said:


> Did she expose herself to STD's by not using a condom?


You can safely assume she did.

LIH, reading her last post here I don't see you going anywhere with her. File if you haven't yet.


----------



## snap

I like how you spin any kind of emotional outbreak on your husband's part as abuse. You desperately want to be a victim rather than own your sh*t.


----------



## snap

He got a pass?!

Girl, you CHEATED on him. You lied and still continue lying to him. And he what, tossed the water bottle into the wall? Oh I see, now you are even.

It's good that the law disagrees with you as to what constitutes an abuse. Otherwise poor bloke would be packed to jail now, it does indeed sound like your way of working it out. But since you can't do much about it then yeah, he gets a pass.


----------



## warlock07

This is getting ugly. Maybe you guys should stop posting and contacting one another until things settle down a little. Emotions are running high.

Both of you are committing a lot of mistakes on top of what was already a bad marriage




> Please see an IC. Anyone. Being on here is like asking Tim to do your counseling.or mikey. Our the guy standing in line next to you. Everyone has an opinion.



I agree with this part. You need some help Lost In Hell. I don't think you are coping well regardless of what ElleBee is doing.


----------



## sinnister

Agreed. Take this offline. It's really not helping any of you.

But Ellebee, I sincerely hope you reconsider your councelor and the people you associate with that may not have your best interest at heart.

Search your heart...you really think LIH is being abusive? Really? C'mon. Be real now. His world is falling apart and he called you some names. It's big girl pants time. Right now you're far too defensive about an action you took that is indefensible.


----------



## Beowulf

sinnister said:


> Agreed. Take this offline. It's really not helping any of you.
> 
> But Ellebee, I sincerely hope you reconsider your councelor and the people you associate with that may not have your best interest at heart.
> 
> Search your heart...you really think LIH is being abusive? Really? C'mon. Be real now. His world is falling apart and he called you some names. It's big girl pants time. Right now you're far too defensive about an action you took that is indefensible.


:iagree: I think the toxicity of this relationship is palpable.


----------



## Shaggy

ElleBee - you really don't seem to have any sympathy at all for what you've done to this guy's soul.

you think your cheating was a bit of fun to blow off steam and stress - and you blame the cause of all of it on him.

Yeah, he's done some really crappy choices - job far away, etc. BUT you went nuclear on the relationship when you cheated with cruise-boy.

You jumped into bed with a sleazy cruise guy who preys each and every cruise on married women. 

Yes, LiH is doing stupid stuff like wiping your phone. He's really in need of IC- true. He is also hurting like no other hurt he's ever had.

And while you've told him more details - one things is so missing her - you haven't accepted responsibility or acknowledged how hurtful what you did was.

The pain is 40% about the sex and 60% about the betrayal of no only having sex once, but meeting up again, and then lying, lying, lying.

He feels other than divorcing you that there is no options available to him to get you to understand the hurt he's going through. 

You need to find actual empathy in you for what he is feeling. The fact that you can't is something you should talk to you IC about. 

As for LiH - I suggest to you , to get some IC and consider going dark on her for a while. Your emotions are just too raw and you are lashing out as a poor way to deal with your obvious soul wrenching hurt at her betrayal of your love and trust. Go dark, do not drink, and give your body time to adapt to this stress and emotion.


----------



## Lost in Hell

Agreed on all accounts. I'll be taking a break and working on myself for a while.

Thanks for the input.


----------



## Beowulf

Lost in Hell said:


> Agreed on all accounts. I'll be taking a break and working on myself for a while.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


Take care of yourself LIH. You're in a bad place right now but it will get better. Good luck.


----------



## Initfortheduration

By her tone, there is obviously a complete lack of contrition. Yeah she's tough. To bad "tough" is not what the marriage needs. Humility is needed. None there.


----------



## warlock07

> It's good that the law disagrees with you as to what constitutes an abuse. Otherwise poor bloke would be packed to jail now, it does indeed sound like your way of working it out. But since you can't do much about it then yeah, he gets a pass.


I think investigating if it was DV when he kicks her out of the house repeatedly or throws away all her stuff is a fair call.(I understand this happened before the infidelity). Infidelity is bad but it does not excuse abuse. These are independent events.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

SlappySlapSlap said:


> tl;dr:
> 
> Elle doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions.
> 
> /thread


While I am glad Elle is posting and I hope she sticks around, I also hope she understands that this is the fallout of having an A.

As bad as Lost has being reacting (he does need to defuse), it doesn't hold a candle to what she has done to him. WS are not able to feel empathy for what they have done for some time after the A has ended (if ever, sometimes until they get cheated on themselves). What she did is a deal breaker for most people and she should be lucky he even acknowledges her existence. My W had an exit A but if she had done half of what Elle had done I would had been NC since D-day and only speak to her through a lawyer. 

Elle should start a thread about a WS POV. I know many BS's would like to pick her brain as to why she does what she does. I know its easy to bash her but she isn't evil, just narcissistic.


----------



## warlock07

I think this is primarily a BS forum. WS do need some tough skin to survive here.


----------



## snap

warlock07 said:


> I think this is primarily a BS forum. WS do need some tough skin to survive here.


An unremorseful, self-absorbed WS doubly so.


----------



## Beowulf

warlock07 said:


> I think this is primarily a BS forum. WS do need some tough skin to survive here.


I think its only when WS do not accept the blame and consequences of their affair do they get bashed. There are many fWS here that are well treated because they have owned their sh!t and done their time so to speak. I can think of some right off the top of my head that I have great respect for.


----------



## gpa

I think that elle does not realize how much her H loves her and how much desperation feels. 
I also think that LIH overreacted. But as we have to deal with human emotions here based on the desperation grounds of the feelings involving, then we have to approach this reaction accordingly and excuse it. Not all people react the same way. 
I consider myself civilized and well educated and with quite a success in my profession. I also love my wife very much. But really speaking I do not know by all means how I will ever react if my wife cheated on me. I don’t know if I will react like a lord or like a desperate dog. Its better for y if y actually love your H, to just put yourself in his shoes and realize first of all that y made a very very bad choice (morituri I corrected it!!), second that he is in total disbelief for your actions against your relation and third that he may have images in his head not bearable by ever one. 
And as a matter of fact, please reconsider your counseling with the selected therapist, because the advices given are not in favor of any R and the worst are against any therapeutic chance y may have in order to understand your behavior and correct it in the future.


----------



## warlock07

He is going through the roller coaster. Extreme love to extreme hate.


----------



## michzz

As a side note to this snowballing painfest, you really should back up your files regularly. There is not excuse for not being able to rebuild your computer files or restore your iphone.


----------



## bangun

I Fell No Love Passion in her post reply. 
I think in her heart there is no love for you. 
It's over, LIH just let them/she go.


----------



## lordmayhem

ElleBee said:


> Please see an IC. Anyone. Being on here is like asking Tim to do your counseling.or mikey. Our the guy standing in line next to you. Everyone has an opinion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This isn't some random internet relationship forum, everyone here has been through infidelity, either as a BS or a WS like you. We know what works and what doesn't. And I'm goig to call it like it is: you're an unremorseful, unrepentant WW. 

Lost in Hell needs to be rid of someone like you and find someone else who will honor her marriage vows and love him.


----------



## lordmayhem

warlock07 said:


> I think this is primarily a BS forum. WS do need some tough skin to survive here.


Yes, there's a lot of people projecting their anger from their own WS on to the WSs here, its par for the course. That's why I give credit to those former WS who post here and give advice, it takes guts. 

The WS in this situation is neither remorseful nor repentant for her actions and continues her blameshifting.


----------



## Numb-badger

lordmayhem said:


> The WS in this situation is neither remorseful nor repentant for her actions and continues her blameshifting.


Just been reading through this thread and I totally agree. A childish victim mentality. The old, 'Yes, what I did was bad, but do you have any idea of what I'M going through!'

Time to grow up.


----------



## Lost in Hell

Just an update.

The divorce is in process. Elle obviously deleted all her posts here, although she still monitors TAM to look for my posts. (Hi Elle:roll eyes I noticed that tid bit in my profile under who keeps looking at my profile.

She has gathered support from family and friends (some of which are my family) on her Facebook account, I assume for sympathy without letting anyone know why she is depressed. Knowing what she told people about me in the past and during the confrontation period, I can only assume she leads them to believe I am the cause of all her problems. 

We chatted shortly yesterday after about 3 weeks with little to no communication. She decided she would rather go out for the night with friends than chat with me about all of this. Point taken. Of course that is nothing new. She did that many times in the past, and in one instance, did it to actually go further the affair.

I have come to the realization that she was over the marriage long before I even worked on myself (well before her affair) and was looking for a way out. She just didn't want to appear to be the bad guy. Now I am the bad guy for confronting her about the affair and filing for divorce. 

I'm going to keep working on myself. I see now that it is pointless to even worry about her anymore. I now know she was never willing/and currently not willing to change her behavior that was the source of my frustration for so many years. 

If anyone knows how to change my username let me know.


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## Lost in Hell

And a sincere thank you to all of you that helped me through this so far.


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## Complexity

Hey Lost, so sorry it had to come down to this. To be honest I saw it coming, especially from her posts.

Anyway you can post in the private member's section if you don't want her to read anything.


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## Lost in Hell

Complexity said:


> Hey Lost, so sorry it had to come down to this. To be honest I saw it coming, especially from her posts.
> 
> Anyway you can post in the private member's section if you don't want her to read anything.


She created a profile here as she used to post in this thread under ElleBee if I remember right. As far as I know she is still actively looking at my posts. Unless she is somehow barred from looking in the private members section, it won't do much good. Either way, I'm off to the gym. Got to get my azz moving again. Somewhere out there is a woman that can be honest and will appreciate me

Time to cut the cord and set out on my own journey. Somehow despite all the crappy things in my life I keep moving forward. A buddy made a joke that I'm the silver lining on all the bad situations I keep running across.  I seem to make it through severely bad times just fine.


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## warlock07

You need atleast 30 posts to have access to the Private members section and if you don't you cannot see the posts. 

Ha..Nice catch about the recent visitors thing. Looks like she deleted the posts yesterday or the day before. I thought I saw them here recently


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## OldWolf57

I am so glad to see you moving on LIH. You kept asking for truth, an getting lies. The fruit don't fall far from the tree. let the trash go to the landfill. Your guts was telling you yrs ago that all was not right. She used her educational learnings to mindF##k you to believe it was all in your mind. Can you imagine the laughing spells her and the family had at your expense. Damn he will be coming home for good soon,, oh well, I do need another degree, that will keep him gone another year. Do you see how TRULY EVIL that woman is ?? GO ON FB and BASH the whole DAMN FAMILY. PLZ give the next victim a chance. You was right all along she changed careers to keep you gone and to pay for her single life.


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## OldWolf57

Also for you to consider,,, Every degree she got, YOU have a financial stake in. So make her pay you back. Just think of all you would have, if she had not kept you working to pay for her education.. GET YOUR $$$$ back. Talk to your lawyer about it.


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## keko

:iagree:

She used your funds to further her education while screwing other men, check with your attorney/state laws you might very likely be able to deduct them from D settlement or have her pay it back.


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## Lost in Hell

The only issue is I didn't directly pay for her tuition. I did however pay for everything else. And she hasn't used her degree/applied herself to get a better paying job since I met her. Even after she got her degree she still went for up to 6 months in dead end jobs, literally not making a penny (commission only). I still make 3 times as much as her with only an AA and an AAS. I should have my damn BS/MBA by now, but I kept putting off school to keep the mortgage paid and our way of life and future paid for. I always had the plan to have her finish school, support me while I finished school and then we would be an unstoppable force career wise. HA, was I wrong.

Live and learn


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## OldWolf57

Brother you are not the first or the last. So just trash the whole damn family on FB and word of mouth, most likely, everyone you know knew. So don't expect much. from false friends.


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## keko

Can her education be considered a community property? Since she acquired it after marriage.


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## Lost in Hell

OldWolf57 said:


> She used her educational learnings to mindF##k you to believe it was all in your mind. Can you imagine the laughing spells her and the family had at your expense. Damn he will be coming home for good soon,, oh well, I do need another degree, that will keep him gone another year. Do you see how TRULY EVIL that woman is ?? GO ON FB and BASH the whole DAMN FAMILY. PLZ give the next victim a chance. You was right all along she changed careers to keep you gone and to pay for her single life.



I have no doubt she used her psychology degree to mind f*ck me. 

Going on FB to bash her won't accomplish anything other than reinforce the idea that I am the cause of all her problems. And I don't really think it will make me feel any better. I would do it in a heart beat if I thought it would help, but it won't. I even tried bullsh!ting her into thinking I was going to have a revenge affair just so she can truly see how bad it feels, but she knew I could't do that. I'm just not kind of person. 


I'm coming to terms that I am second best to a cruise ship magician. Or really any random guy that complimented her. I now see how weak of a person she is and how cheap she is. She slept with/had an affair with a guy simply because he paid her compliments. 

That was not something I lacked in our relationship either. I always told her how good she looked. So that excuse is out. It simply boils down to her wanting out and being to weak of a person to actually ask for it, or she wanted to mess around and have me as the fall back guy.

I will never know how many other times this happened even though she said this the only affair. I do know of 2 other EA's she had. All discovered at about the same time. 

She is so far gone it's crazy. 

I was holding out hope she would one day realize what she did and own up to it, but that has not been the case yet. Everything she did after the fact was due to me prompting her. No initiative was taken on her part. After I kept getting lied to I simply had enough and realized I can try forever, but if she wasn't right in her own head it will never work. That and she refused to minimize contact with her enablers (family). 

I signed up for a couple dating websites (free) and told her about them, attempting to get a reaction from her. Maybe forcing her to think about me with another woman would make her feeling a tiny sliver of what I feel, but other than her seeming to be surprised, I got no reaction. Sort of like she wanted it. 

She wants me to feel good to minimize how bad she made me feel. Basically she will feel better about what she did if I wasn't in so much pain.


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## Lost in Hell

OldWolf57 said:


> Brother you are not the first or the last. So just trash the whole damn family on FB and word of mouth, most likely, everyone you know knew. So don't expect much. from false friends.


I asked for help and information from her family and got lied to by some and flat out no help from the others. It would do no good.

She had them block me on FB immediately after I called her out on all of this anyway.

That, and I went ahead and deleted any mutual friends or in one case a person (I would call him an acquaintance more than a friend) that I later found out that she had an EA with, possibly a PA since I found a 2am call and email to him.


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## iheartlife

Lost in Hell said:


> I'm coming to terms that I am second best to a cruise ship magician. Or really any random guy that complimented her. I now see how weak of a person she is and how cheap she is. She slept with/had an affair with a guy simply because he paid her compliments.
> 
> That was not something I lacked in our relationship either. I always told her how good she looked. So that excuse is out. It simply boils down to her wanting out and being to weak of a person to actually ask for it, or she wanted to mess around and have me as the fall back guy.
> 
> I will never know how many other times this happened even though she said this the only affair. I do know of 2 other EA's she had. All discovered at about the same time.


This is why BSs should avoid blaming themselves for affairs.

ALL marriages can stand improvement. All marriages go through tough times. The question is: when confronted with tough times, what do you do? Each of us is an adult who has the power to make responsible choices.

Her actions show that she has an enormous emptiness where her heart should be that neither you, NOR ANYONE ELSE, could fill. There are needs, normal needs, and then there is The Black Hole that requires so much affirmation, validation, and "love" that a normal perfectly fine spouse cannot possibly compensate.

Too bad she skipped that day back in school. 

And more power to you for avoiding the drama and taking the high road.


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## Shaggy

So she is trying to make you the bad guy while she is the cheater?
Well you know, TAM knows and honestly she knows that the trashy bad guy is the one looking back at her in the mirror. 

Stay strong get a shark lawyer and remind her that bad people are help accountable for their hateful choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

Wow, your wife really is a serial cheater. I think you should take some comfort that you didn't reconcile to be honest. I almost feel sorry for the next poor soul that she'll bury her claws in.


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## ElleBee

Wait...What? You consider Lealand an EA? He's the cop I went to when I was trying to get help about my rights for domestic violence...He's the only cop I knew of that wouldn't throw you in jail but knew the local laws!


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## ElleBee

I deleted all my posts before or around 3/25, the last time I had logged in prior to this. They were not deleted recently.


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## ElleBee

OldWolf57 said:


> I am so glad to see you moving on LIH. You kept asking for truth, an getting lies. The fruit don't fall far from the tree. let the trash go to the landfill. Your guts was telling you yrs ago that all was not right. She used her educational learnings to mindF##k you to believe it was all in your mind. Can you imagine the laughing spells her and the family had at your expense. Damn he will be coming home for good soon,, oh well, I do need another degree, that will keep him gone another year. Do you see how TRULY EVIL that woman is ?? GO ON FB and BASH the whole DAMN FAMILY. PLZ give the next victim a chance. You was right all along she changed careers to keep you gone and to pay for her single life.


You are twisted if you truly believe that this is how people entertain themselves.

Stop and think about what you just said. That's an awful lot of energy to spend on someone who was not paying for my school (I was still expected to pay my half as a roommate, so I have a pretty good student loan debt going). Another degree? How many degrees do you think I earned? I was supposed to go for my Master's to support him, but he decided he wanted to go to school after my Bachelor's so we re-routed the plan. He didn't remember that until about a week ago. We never intended for me to work with this Bachelor's degree. It was a means to an end, the Master's degree that could support both of us. I finished up my Bachelor's in 3 semesters (1 calendar year) because I took 18 credits per semester and went all summer long. So keeping him gone "another" year is incorrect. I was 28 years old and commuting close to an hour each way, so I was definitely a misfit among a bunch of 19 year olds and not living the crazy single life you are imagining. My family that you picture me laughing maniacally with lives nearly 4 hours away, so at best I visit them on a weekend once a month. I am the only one in this area.

Get off your high horse and quit making ridiculous stuff up.

I understand that you all are trying to make LIH feel better. I have tried to do that myself. I have tried apologizing. I have tried going through the Marriage Fitness Program by Mort Fertel. I have tried writing daily journals to LIH to show him what is going on in my head. I still go to IC weekly. I signed a waiver so that if he goes to the same counseling center, the ICs may discuss whatever I have discussed in my sessions freely in order to help him along in his healing process. I have tried to answer all of his questions to the best of my ability, but I was not ready when I was first confronted, as it was approximately 2 hours after ending the affair. I was sorting out my feelings and trying to decide whether or not I wanted to reconcile. At that time, I do know that I knew it was wrong, I knew it would hurt him, I knew that I was checked out emotionally, and I knew what was missing from our relationship and what I needed to see if it was ever going to work. I thought I saw it over the next couple of weeks. I told him that we both had a decision to make though, that we both needed to be 100% committed to reconciling in order to make it work, and for that reason I was hesitant to commit to moving back into our shared home until a decision was made on BOTH ends. We both recognized that there were things lacking in our marriage. I understood that I had hurt him very deeply and I regretted having let it get to that point, and wished we could have sat down face to face to handle all of this. We did not have the face to face time as a luxury and I should have taken whatever I could have gotten (in our case, webcam would have had to suffice).

We've seen more sides of each other in the past 2 months than I think we ever have. We've been apart for so much of our marriage, that we've forgotten how to work together, and I think that is what has broken us. I don't see how we are able to patch this back up because I think the years have worn me down and the recent deep cuts I have made to him are just much too deep to forgive. Our battle scars are just too much for either of us to handle. It is unfortunate, because I still look at him in our pictures and think that he is the most handsome man I have ever seen, and I look at him and think that I have never been able to share so much with any one person, and I think that I never imagined for any of this to happen and I look down at my own hands and feel like I've got his blood on them and I don't think I can fix it. Then I look up in the mirror and I hate myself because I was entrusted with his heart and I broke it beyond repair and have to live with that.

...But if you prefer to think of me as laughing with my family over this whole ordeal, then you go ahead. But if you care to know the truth, then I will tell you that I spend an awful lot of time crying alone and he knows that.


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## warlock07

ElleBee said:


> I deleted all my posts before or around 3/25, the last time I had logged in prior to this. They were not deleted recently.



Might be a mistake on my part. Does not matter though


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## OldWolf57

I never was too proud to say I'm sorry. Your post touched me. I know a good person can sometime do bad things. Moreso, you seem to really want to atone for hurting him. Its just, the way he described things, and from reading of other WW evil acts, I autoed you there also. I wish you both the VERY BEST. Be that together or apart.


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## OldWolf57

Twisted,,, yes I own that. My life experiences dealing with bad ppl, helped shape me. ELLEBEE, you and LIH will stay in my PRAYERS.


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## snap

*clap* *clap* *clap*

Great essay. If I were new here, I'd probably be touched by the time I got to the crying scene.


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## keko

ElleBee,

LIH mentioned "*She decided she would rather go out for the night with friends than chat with me about all of this*", if you hate yourself for hurting him why didn't you gave him a few minutes? Gave him full disclosure instead of him wondering who/when/where/etc. she did it with. Plus a bunch of other questions he may have had.


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## Shaggy

ElleBee, your great with words and very good at twisting things to justify your choices.

You layout the case of working so hard etc, nicely, but you turn around a throw out how you grew apart. Well duh! You were working hard at school. But the tested part was how you seem to use that to justify your cheating, as f you had no choice and were the victim of the circumstance. The reality is that you chose to use the time and energy that could have been spent reconnecting and building your marriage to connect ith the OM and to cheat.

You also nicely set up the framework about not being able to choose R as his fault. I call BS. You are choosing to walk away and not work on what you did. Its easier for you to shed a few tears and convince yourself it's really his fault, but it is entirely your actions an choice. Be honest with yourself and him.

Btw, are you in contact with the OM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04

Shaggy said:


> Btw, are you in contact with the OM?


Great question!


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## Lost in Hell

So update time. 

No surprise to any of you I'm sure, but now Elle is contesting for half of everything. Awesome.

The last 9 years of my life have been paid for with my blood, sweat and the lives of my friends. 

I guess it's only fair she gets half.


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## Lost in Hell

And the kicker is I am somehow obligated to keep her on my insurance (auto/medical/dental) until this all pans out, despite her having her own coverage for all of it. Double gut kick. 

I'm even paying for her IC through my insurance.


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## keko

Look at it on the bright side, once you divorce her you'll have a chance to find a younger and hotter chick.

Check your state law if adultery will play in settlement, or maybe she wasted marital funds on her affair.


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## Lost in Hell

I'm in Florida. No-fault state=half regardless of if I got her on film doing drugs and having sex with 20 dudes at once.

And yes, I am trying to look at the silver lining. I will get on with my life even after she runs out of my money.


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## snap

In her last rant here, she said her going to IC is for your sake. Guess in her mind it's only fair the bill is on you!

Be strong, it will get better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60

Lost in Hell said:


> And the kicker is I am somehow obligated to keep her on my insurance (auto/medical/dental) until this all pans out, despite her having her own coverage for all of it. Double gut kick.
> 
> I'm even paying for her IC through my insurance.


Talk to your insurance company and let them know that she has her own insurance. They can list her as having secondary coverage with your insurance.

She will still be on the policy but your insurance kicks in after hers pays as primary.

Not sure what companies are involved but it might be worth a phone call. Just make sure your own coverage is not changed. Are you listed on her insurance?


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## Lost in Hell

Her coverage is either insufficient or doesn't cover the IC she is attending. As I understand it, mine is the primary for coverage. 

And no, I am not on her coverage.

I actually offered to put her IC on my coverage until we got divorced (assuming things ultimately didn't work between us). This however was when my plan was to file for divorce but hold off on signing the paper myself until we gave an honest effort at making things work. 

Last night was a repeat of a few weeks ago. Due to the time change I get up at 5am to talk with her. Of course last night she was heading out to go bar hopping again instead of talk to me.

I've had enough. She is contesting for half and half I'm sure she will get according to the state of Florida.

At this point I am ready to do whatever is needed to get this over with. What I don't think she realizes is that I have more liability than assets. I of course took on all the mortgage debt myself. Even with half of everything (assets I have included), she will still incur a sizable amount of debt. I actually was planning on taking on all the mortgage debt myself, thus the reason why I wanted everything of value that I have paid for. 

I would be surprised if she paid 5% of the total amount paid on the mortgage thus far. I guess thats what I get for trying to get ahead in life. I get to throw it down the drain to a woman who cheated on me.


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## Lost in Hell

ElleBee said:


> Wait...What? You consider Lealand an EA? He's the cop I went to when I was trying to get help about my rights for domestic violence...He's the only cop I knew of that wouldn't throw you in jail but knew the local laws!


Again, I feel like I need to clarify I wasn't even in the United States when this 2am phone call/email occurred. This was a few months after the fact and well into the middle of my trip.

Also, I think you should point out that "domestic violence" doesn't cover me kicking you out of the house. I do however think it would cover physical abuse, which I have never done. I have never laid a hand on you. Throwing accusations of "domestic violence" is not something I take lightly.

And "He's the only cop I knew of that wouldn't throw you in jail" is not so true either. Lealand was infact fired well before this for (wait for it) domestic violence against his girlfriend. 

I guess I should also point out that you know two other deputies. One of which you have spent plenty of time with due to our mutual friendship. We have camped and hung out at the beach together so many times it's ridiculous to play that card.


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## Shaggy

Only you maybe on the mortgage BUT martial debt is shared debt. The name on the mortgage is who the bank holds responsible. The court sees it as a shared obligation. 

So stick it to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

Patience LIH.

Life will get better. Let your wife keep heading her life down the drain.

By the time you get home and get divorced she will be ready for knee replacement. Get her off your insurance. Lol!

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost in Hell

Blast from the past.

Will update in a day or two.


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## Lost in Hell

Test


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## GoldenR

We see you


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## rockon

Please do.


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## TDSC60

Lost in Hell said:


> Blast from the past.
> 
> Will update in a day or two.


Can't wait to find out how your life progressed after all the pain and lies you were subjected to.


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## MattMatt

@Lost in Hell We are still here for you, so please update when you feel ready.


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## Buffer

Y ok?


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## Coastalguy

LIH it would be great to hear how you are doing 8 years on.


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## TDSC60

Lost in Hell said:


> Blast from the past.
> 
> Will update in a day or two.


Can't wait for the update.


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