# Real R or False R



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

Hi,

Just wondered about the different perspectives of going through R and what folks consider to be true R.

My WW and I had some MC last year when her A came to light. However it was false as she was continuing (at least a EA) at the same time. My gut told me at the time something wasn't right and she wasn't engaged in the process. Of course she denied it but looking back now its obvious (or should have been) lol.

Fast forward to now and I'm pretty sure she is NC for a couple of months, although it took 6 months to get there. She also understands the concept of an EA. To her once she stopped having sex everything was ok and why couldn't she continue to be friends. Later she had to wean herself of him, and stop sending or responding to those "Hi, how are you today ?" texts.

But to her it seems going NC was all there was to do for R. After that everything tis down to me. I'm the one reading the books, trying to make sense of everything. Hoping and wondering if it really is over.

She doesn't really want to talk about it. She doesn't want to go back to MC, would rather have IC at least in the short term. I've never once heard her say sorry or really be remorseful. Except that she couldn't keep it hidden longer from me lol.

Anyway just wondered.......


----------



## StagesOfGrief (Aug 19, 2012)

She's trying to rug sweep it. If she doesn't care about your healing and fixing what she caused, why are you staying around? It takes two to fix a marriage, and from what youve posted above, you're the only one serious about fixing your marriage. 

Once the affair was exposed in MC what steps did you take next?


----------



## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

NornIron7 said:


> Hi,
> But to her it seems going NC was all there was to do for R. After that everything tis down to me. I'm the one reading the books, trying to make sense of everything. Hoping and wondering if it really is over.
> 
> She doesn't really want to talk about it. She doesn't want to go back to MC, would rather have IC at least in the short term. I've never once heard her say sorry or really be remorseful. Except that she couldn't keep it hidden longer from me lol.
> ...


Definitely false R. She's rugsweeping bigtime. She's telling you "get over it".

She not showing any genuine remorse. Don't believe anything she tells you. Anything. Learn about the 180. And put the idea of reconciliation on ice for a while until she has an attitude transplant.


----------



## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Sorry, Norn, but you are in false R. She isn't remorseful, is doing none of the work to rebuild trust, is rugsweeping, and is a prime candidate for resumption of the affair, or a new one, because she hasn't learned a thing.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

All it will take is one right text in a moment of weakness for them to resume all over again. Did you force her to R? You are in false R. You are the typical doormat nice guy. 

Reading your old thread makes this seem much worse.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

True R isn't just stopping cheating - It's returning to the marriage and working to make it better.


----------



## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

False R.

If she doesn't care or show remorse SHE WILL DO IT AGAIN, make no mistake of this. 

Shes not sorry, shes just sorry she got caught. 

She wants to rugsweep this and go back to the status quo like nothing happened.

Eventually one text, one email will get through and they'll take the affair underground.

By underground I mean deeply hidden affair.

Nothing hurts quite like finding the smoking gun of *renewed* infidelity, as if she didn't crush your heart to pieces good enough the first time. By smoking gun I mean 'secret email account, A woman's name for the OM in her contact list(blatant hiding from you) or finding an untraceable trac fone in her possesion. 

Any wife in her position should eager to help you in anyway to lessen your pain and help you heal.

You need to let her know how much this has damaged you, and that you are not sure you can remain married to someone who threw your trust, love, and marriage in the trash can and can't be assed to give a sh!t about it.

^ You may not want to believe that, but you CANNOT be married to someone who writes off your feelings. It will always always always be a bad resentment filled marriage, and if you want to salvage it you need to be willing to send it to the junkyard first.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

and beware of 










I would hope you're monitoring her to ensure that she maintains NC.


----------



## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

As a expert in false R [lol] I can tell you that if your gut tells you it is false, it is falser than you think.


Far away look in eyes at odd moments
Little smiles or coldness when you are vulnerable and she knows it. 
Anger when pushed on any affair details.
Attempted shut down of any subject she does not like.
Deflection of difficult subjects for her to discuss.
Focus on the "Problems in the marriage" before the affair.
Defense of affair partner.
Defense of actions leading to affair
Anger at exposure
Focus on the things you said when you talk about the things she did.
 General resentment at you existing!


----------



## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Norn, if you will look around, you will find numerous ,truly remorseful WS's here on TAM, and you can compare their actions and words with those of your own wife, in order to tell the difference, between true R or false.


----------



## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Above is some really good insight given on the subject. Your account of R with your WW sounds like mine. 

You are in a false R. If you think it's false...then it's false. She is not excepting responsibility for what she did or put herself aside to help you. 

It took mine 6 months after "D" day #3 to go NC...if she ever really did. 

She put no effort into repairing the damage she caused. 

She read no books...I have read pretty much everything I could get my hands on and have the equivalent of a PHD on the subject of infidelity now.

She never really re-engaged in our marriage. 

She got defensive when ever I tried to discuss her affair and would shift the focus to me and our marriage and her perceived problems with it. 

She defended OM whenever he came up in discussion.

She would blame me for all of the problems in our marriage...everything, to a point where I started to believe it...not any more. 

She re-wrote our marital history to a point where I hardly recognized it as the same marriage I was in.

She would not open up and tell me the whole truth...only what I already knew...and NO details. Most of the time she would shut down and stare at the floor refusing to answer any questions or discuss like adults.

She refused to remove passwords on her phone and computer. 

She was not accountable for her whereabouts during the day and would get defensive if I asked. 

She showed no real remorse and I never got what I would consider a heart-felt apology.

The affection and intimacy never came back for her and she refused to put any effort into that. 

She started to see a therapist but quit after a short time...and never would discudd her sessions with me. 

She would become outraged at the possibility of exposure.

She refused to give up her GNO's or at least reduce them. 

She continued to act selfish in all areas of her life...it was all about her and refused to give up anything that would help us or me heal.

She refused to comfort me when I was triggering or hurting...no compassion or empathy...Cold.

Her attitude was...get over it.

Does any of this sound familiar NornIron7?

I finally filed for divorce from my WW after putting up with her selfish s**t for over a year. I gave it my best but in the end she gave nothing. I simply can't stay with someone like her who doesn't value me or what we had anymore. I don't trust her because she never did anything to earn that back. I strongly feel that she could resume her affair at any moment...if it ever really stopped. I am not willing to go through that again with her or anyone else.

You need to know where your boundaries are...and when you have had enough emotional abuse.


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I am not thinking she wants to really deal with it, Rug Sweeping. I would not be to sure that she is NC. Are you still using Keyloggers, VAR's?

IC is private and not open to you. I am OK with IC as long as the MC is there as well.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

In my case, my fWW did what ever I wanted, and the more I pushed the more fWW dug in and took it. Sure there was some hesitation but in the end it wasn't about her it was about me and what she had to do to *keep me* around.

I'm with the crowd that believes she is tring to sweep this under the rug. And after having done this my selfs years ago when my fWW had her 1st affair, I can say that its the worst thing to do. (note the statement "1st affair")

See, there is nothing to be learned from her unhealthy behavior, how can you truely understand something that isn't faced head on?

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that her IC is all about her and her conflicts and what will make her happy. I suspect that she just gets lipservice and is told what she wants to hear by the IC, rather then working on how she can affair proof her marriage.

Its hard to believe you are still around with out one moresel of remorse from your WW. Well maybe a little, but I think she gives you just enough transparency to keep you around.


----------



## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Sorry, Norn, but you are in false R. She isn't remorseful, is doing none of the work to rebuild trust, is rugsweeping, and is a prime candidate for resumption of the affair, or a new one, because she hasn't learned a thing.


Unfortunately I think Badblood is right.








_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

Hope this answers some of the questions and comments received.

I guess she is trying to rug sweep it. We’ve both done that our married lives so nothing new there. Gradually it is changing though. We have had some successful talks the last while but there is a long way to go. I know her and am not rushing things.

I do think she really is NC. As I said it took a while to get there but I think she did. I am using a key logger and some other stuff to ensure there is no contact. I’m pretty sure she doesn’t know about them but can’t be sure as she works in an IT company (in Admin though). She could be very sneaky but honestly that has never been her style. There isn’t a history of deception. Only around this and that was mainly covering everything up once she figured out I knew.

I accept what you guys are saying and I should confront her more. I think I will, I just need to find the right time and space to do it. For instance last week I told her that I owned the problems I created in the marriage and she owned the ones she created but responsibility for her affair. That was hers alone. She was pretty stunned at that. I’d never said that before and had previously spent a lot of time blaming myself etc etc. I just need to do more of that I think (not the blaming bit lol).

I don’t think the 180 is the right tactic as a part of the problem was me being emotionally as well as physically unavailable. I need to be there but ask and talk more. It is better than it was a few months ago when she was in the fog and torn between me and her lover. Cognitive dissonance I believe it’s called. But since she made the decision to go NC that has gradually gone away. 

Although it been over a year its really only two months in R – if that makes sense. So early days yet. I think the next stage is to explain more how I’m feeling still and that she is shirking her responsibility. If we are really to make a go of this she needs to try harder etc.

There is a lot more I could say but I need to think some more. Thanks so far.


----------



## StagesOfGrief (Aug 19, 2012)

Not trying to be rude at all, and I respect your right to live your life how you choose, but you're 0 months into R because shes not ready to really R.


----------



## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Another thought. I feel that when a WS acts like this after "D" day...the reason is simple

They don't want the BS or the marriage anymore or at least not enough to put in the effort to fix it. 

Badblood is right.

Some WS's are remorseful and are willing, actually motivated to do anything and everything possible to repair the damage they have caused. These are the lucky BS's…if there is such a thing.

Some WW's detach emotionally from their BS's during the affair. After it is discovered, they become resentful towards BS for destroying all of her fun and keeping them from the OP...whom they really want. They are cake eaters and want both worlds and are may no longer be satisfied with only the half that contains you. They are sorry they got caught...not for the affair. They only have good memories of the affair and subconsciously recall only the low points of the marriage. 

You are the authority figure in their lives now, setting the boundaries that they don't want that are keeping them from the OP. They act like rebellious teenagers and will not own up to what they did let alone accept responsibility for the damage. They justify their choices instead by blaming the BS and harboring resentment. In their minds they couldn't possibly be responsible for what they did because they are a good person. Therefore, in their minds again, it must be the BS that is the root of the problem. They feel they were entitled to the affair because of this. Some WS may feel a deep shame for what they did but still defend their choices because they are too selfish and possibly narcissistic to admit and take the blame for the destruction left in their wake. 

I feel WS's that react like this, showing no remorse, are deeply flawed and the chances are high that they will cheat again…with the same OP, or a new one. It's only a matter of time and opportunity. They never bothered to do the work on themselves, because inside, they never admitted that they were the problem….they spent all of their energy deflecting and blaming the BS.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

bottom line is that it won't work if both the BS and WS work at making it work

meaning BS works toward and wants to forgive, WS works toward and want to earn forgiveness


----------



## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Right. It isn't both giving 50%...It's both giving 100%

I only got about 10%...thus my impending divorce.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

This is from your original post only last month.



NornIron7 said:


> She flatly denied having an affair. This person was a friend, a brother of a girl she used to know. *Turns out later he was an old boyfriend. They met on FB*. How many times have I heard that since. Because I didn't tell her I knew I couldn't really object to contact. *I did and it went underground.* A couple of times it surfaced and I would not take it well. In the end *I had a breakdown* and coming out of that decided to tell her the truth. She was gobsmacked.
> 
> She agreed not to contact him any more. *Apparently they only had sex the once. In his car. She seduced him*.
> 
> *A few months later (Feb) I find they are still in contact on FB via poking back and forth*. This time I get her to block him on FB.


To me, your original post explains completely why your WW is not fully into R - because the affair is still on and it's deep underground. These are the facts as you've described:


Your WW works in an IT company. So even though you have a keylogger, she knows the computer is compromised and will not use that avenue to contact OM.
The OM is an XBF and he lives in the local area. They DID NOT just do it once. This is just TT. They did it plenty of times. They almost ALWAYS say they only did it one time, and I bet she told you it was horrible. And since she fracked the OM in her car, are you using a VAR and possibly a GPS tracker?
What do you know about the OM? Where does he live? Where does he work? Does he have a wife or girlfriend? Why have you not exposed the affair to the OMW/OMGF?
She isn't truly remorseful and wants to rugsweep the affair so that she can keep it going. You are ONLY the backup plan.

If she has a smart phone or a work issued phone, then that's her main way of communicating with OM when she's not at work. Otherwise, her main safe place to contact OM is at work. Do you know where she goes on her lunch breaks? Do you have access to her paystubs? Its very easy to take some time off at work and merely pretend to go to work, but instead go spend the day with the lover.

Have you hired a PI yet? Why not? 

You are in False R big time, and its time you realized that. A truly remorseful wayward spouse will move heaven and earth to regain your trust, to comfort you when you trigger. That is what those of us who are truly in R are what we are getting from our former wayward spouses. You are nowhere in the ball park here.


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

Was hoping I could come on here and say you were wrong.

But it seems I was. The keylogger picked up yesterday something on FB which shows she at least wants to find out his current status etc.

To be accurate she hasn't unblocked him or contacted him directly but is trying to get round this on FB via mutual friends. However it isn't working for her.

We had a long talk the other evening after my last post and I thought I was getting somewhere. It seems not. She admitted she had been in love with him. Had fallen in love all over again. Tried to fight it but couldn't. She was sorry. Said she felt she could never forgive herself. I believe this is the truth. MC and IC helped her to make the decision to stay with me but its been so hard to stay away and not contact him. 
She claims she has told him its over and not to contact her again. I want to believe her in this also but this last effort to find info on him has left me a bit lost really.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

She's still in the affair fog.


----------



## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Do the 180.

The 180 isn't for her, its for you to gain control over yourself and situation.

The secondary part of the 180 is that sometimes when the spouse sees their BS becoming more self reliant and assertive they lose their familiar control over the BS

The not feeling emotionally connected is bullcrap. That could've been solved with communication, not another man. 

Right now the R hasn't truly started. You've imposed no boundaries, created no conditions and lo and behold, shes breaking NC already.


"Tried to fight it but couldn't. She was sorry. Said she felt she could never forgive herself. *I believe this is the truth*" :slap:

"But it seems I was. The keylogger picked up yesterday something on FB which shows she at least wants to find out his current status etc"

Don't downsize that, shes fishing for contact with OM. All he has to do is reciprocate and they're gonna be deep in it again.

In fact, if shes been keeping these feelings for OM and still emotionally inclined towards him then the *affair never really ended*

It just seems like you don't realize the severity of it and are still being the nice guy. 

Your wife has loved another man for more than a year, think about that.

Also "She claims she has told him its over and not to contact her again."

Then why is she trying to initiate contact with him?

Lies. 

When the WW is still in the affair their statements will always make no sense and tell implausible lies.


----------



## skip76 (Aug 30, 2011)

NornIron7 said:


> Was hoping I could come on here and say you were wrong.
> 
> But it seems I was. The keylogger picked up yesterday something on FB which shows she at least wants to find out his current status etc.
> 
> ...



Nothing she says is the truth right now. nothing.


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> She's still in the affair fog.


I think this is right. I'll try the 180 approach and see how that goes.

Thanks so far.


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

Ok I need a bit of help or advice here, especially from those who know Facebook. Sorry in advance that this such a long post.

My wife uses FB all the time both on the PC but increasingly on her phone as she recently (July) got a Galaxy S2 which is much better than her old phone.

The last time I confronted her about ongoing contact with the OM was in June. I had seen her phone records and saw she had been continuing to text him on and off. She claimed this latest contact was to tell him to not contact her again and that “it was over”. Since then there have been no texts from her phone. However she had already deleted the texts from her phone so I can’t verify the truth of this or not.

Recently (last few weeks) I noticed some emails coming through to her from Facebook. Not sure when they started exactly. They are “Facebook Login from an unrecognised device”. These are mailed to her every time she accesses her account from the home computer. However there is nothing when she uses her phone. 

Q1 - Is this a new update from FB recently or would she have had to actively go in and change that setting to enable notifications?

I think she suspects I know her login details and is using this notification as a kind of early warning system to show her if her account is accessed. The only device recognised in her account settings is her mobile so no email is generated when she uses it. She is not adding the home computer to this list of recognised devices, which would be the obvious thing to do for most people I think. She would use it every day and is scrupulous to log in and out each time so can get a number of these mails through every day.

Now - This is where it gets really confusing for me. 

In the security settings there is also a section for all active sessions. A few days ago I noticed that apart from the active home computer login there were a number of other sessions. On checking these I was able to recognise a few of them. One was her current phone and one was her old phone. However there were two other sessions. Both were dated as active from 03 Feb. This is the date she last changed her password. I know this date for a fact. One of the connections was an iphone which is definitely not anything to do with her as we don’t have any Apple products. The other was a PC (Win 7) same as our computer. 

I decided to logout all the other sessions. I checked this by turning on her old phone and sure enough it didn’t connect to FB but asked for the password. I didn’t reconnect it.

Last night when I looked again apart from the active session on the home computer there was an android connection, which I guess was her phone, but also another Win 7 connection that had started at 22.10 that evening. I am sure we were watching TV at that time. The IP address shown was completely different to the current session although the location shown was the same ie it was local. I decided to log it out again.

My suspicion now is that the OM knows her login details and is accessing her account I guess to keep up to date with her activity. I’m not sure if she is aware of it or not, but I’m going to assume she is. It may be that the OM helped her to change her password in Feb, as the EA was still in full swing then and his was the iphone.

Q2 - What I can’t figure out is why if this other PC is not in the recognised list it doesn’t generate one of these notification emails. There was certainly nothing received around 22.10 from Facebook. Or is there another technical reason why this would be shown like this in her account settings with a different IP address ?

Q3 - Is it possible they are communicating somehow by both logging into the same account. There is nothing showing up on the home computer key log files but I guess she could be doing it all on her phone. Certainly these email notifications started around the same time as she got her new phone. She may have guessed the computer is compromised following me confronting her in June and not use it for anything other than browsing now.

FYI – I have also in the last few days consulted a lawyer re divorce options. This was independent of this and stemmed from my frustration at her ambivalence to work on our marriage or re-engage in any form of IC or MC. I think if I could prove that some of my suspicions were accurate then I would push forward for divorce. But I would want to be 100% accurate that her EA is still going on before that. I’m still 60/40 in favour of my marriage continuing, but that’s a lot less than the 90/10 of six months ago.

Sorry again for the long post and thanks in advance to anyone who takes the trouble to read it all and post a reply.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You know Norn I am sure someone can answer all those technical questions but if I was in your shoes I would serve her D papers.

She is still in the fog and I think active in her A.

I can see how much you would like to R but I think she returned to you for the wrong reasons.

Maybe D papers will finally help her figure out who she really loves.

HM64


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

burner phone?


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

Looked for one, but didn't find anything.

Only place I think it might be is at her parents house. She calls there nearly every day and it wouldn't be too hard to take 5 minutes in the bathroom to do a to and fro.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

See what I found out about this

Login approvals is a Two Factor Authentication system that requires you to enter a code we send to your mobile phone via text message whenever you log into Facebook from a new or unrecognized computer. Once you have entered this security code, you’ll have the option to save the device to your account so that you don’t see this challenge on future logins.


Read the complete link 
Introducing Login Approvals | Facebook

Some more info here. See if you can get more relevant info here.
Extra Security Features - Facebook Help Center | Facebook



I am guessing that she changed the setting such that when you login into her FB from anywhere other than her mobile, it will need her approval.


And this



> She claimed this latest contact was to tell him to not contact her again and that “it was over”. Since then there have been no texts from her phone. However she had already deleted the texts from her phone so I can’t verify the truth of this or not.


This is likely a lie. Why did she delete it. It would have been very helpful to your marriage if she could have shown you the message and she know it


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

ing said:


> As a expert in false R [lol] I can tell you that if your gut tells you it is false, it is falser than you think.
> 
> 
> Far away look in eyes at odd moments
> ...


Erk. All except the last point from my WW.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The windows 7(p or phone. Can be either) needs to have her approval before it can have access to the account. She is definitely lying or hiding something. She know her FB is compromised and actively working to limit/access the access you can have of her account.


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

Warlock Thanks bit its not Login approval just a email notification. They are two different settings.

I'm starting to shake now.


----------



## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Norn, as one rugsweeper to another, it's time for a strong 180. Start to look at your life as it can be without her. Believe me, no matter what you think right now, that is not a bad prospect. Once you get your mind around that, start moving in that direction. She can either join the ride, or get off the bike. I did what you are doing for two years. I finally broke through to her as I was preparing to leave our home. She did a complete turnaround at that point. We are still together.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If you were in true R you would not have to play these games because she would be completely an totally transparent - including no text deletions until you've read them.

Since filing is an escalation of things, before you go to there consider trying this. Go into FB on a device you plan on using yourself to log into her account. Add it to the approved list yourself for her account.

See if she reacts. 

You should be having total access to her accounts at this point, because of the A, but also because you can help her stay strong and not contact him.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> If you were in true R you would not have to play these games because she would be completely an totally transparent - including no text deletions until you've read them.
> 
> Since filing is an escalation of things, before you go to there consider trying this. Go into FB on a device you plan on using yourself to log into her account. Add it to the approved list yourself for her account.
> 
> ...


Good Point Shaggy. Then when you see her reaction have her bag packed and ready to go.

Your gut is not failing you.

And I hope you are shaking with anger. Use it to see you through her BS.

A wayward spouse that wants to R does not act like this.

HM64


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

Satya said:


> The browser is different depending on which you use and how you have set the caching/password memory. Personally I use all (for development purposes and QA testing) but mainly Chrome, which I know kicks up a fuss about my pc and forces me to re-register it at every login if my browser cache has been cleared. If you run incognito mode in Chrome this will happen automatically when you close the browser Window. Otherwise you would need to clear the cache and history from the settings browser settings. Most browsers work similarly in this fashion.


Hi – this isn’t what is happening (ie running inprivate mode or cache being cleared as the history is still there). I think when you have login notifications set then every time you go to log in a little box pops up asking you to give this device a name. You can choose to skip or save. If you save then the next time the little box won’t come up as the device is now registered on FB. As part of the login process FB will send you a mail to your stored email address to say you have logged onto FB on an unregistered device. 

I agree that there must be a cookie or something stored locally that allows FB to recognise the PC. I’ve tested it out and this is what happens. For some reason she is not hitting save and this makes me suspicious. I’ve tried to be standing there when she logs on to ask “hey what’s that” but she’s cute and doesn’t. She just waits for me to go.




Shaggy said:


> If you were in true R you would not have to play these games because she would be completely an totally transparent - including no text deletions until you've read them.
> 
> Since filing is an escalation of things, before you go to there consider trying this. Go into FB on a device you plan on using yourself to log into her account. Add it to the approved list yourself for her account.
> 
> ...


If I do this then she will know for sure the PC is compromised. I think she just suspects it right now. 

I’m going to have to just talk it out with her. It bothers me too much not to do that.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Keylogger.


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

snap said:


> Keylogger.


Got it. That's why I know what I know.

That's why I'm confused. There are no covert messages being drafted for instance and then deleted. Nothing like that. I hope I'm just being too paranoid, but when something doesn't make sense to me then I'm at it like a terrier with a rat these days.

I'm hoping someone can post a reasonable alternative theory.


----------



## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

NornIron7 said:


> Got it. That's why I know what I know.
> 
> That's why I'm confused. There are no covert messages being drafted for instance and then deleted. Nothing like that. I hope I'm just being too paranoid, but when something doesn't make sense to me then I'm at it like a terrier with a rat these days.
> 
> I'm hoping someone can post a reasonable alternative theory.


If you're looking for someone to tell you its probably nothing and not to worry, I'm sorry but thats not gonna happen. 

Too many red flags here, she is most definitely still hiding.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I deal with behaviors in my line of work. Easier said then done but I will give you my view.

Ending an A is easy. Just stop

Getting over feelings for another person is harder but can be done through several techniques. I won;t lay them out here but can be done fairly simply.

Stopping all contact is the first and best appoach.

Your WS needs to get off FB for ever, period end of story. All she is doing is is spending all her energy, effort and time trying to thwart you from finding out what she is doing and keeping it secret. To us who sit here and watch, we scratch our heads at the stupidity of the efforts the WS's go to to keep their evil behavior going in a self destructive manner.

It is no different then being on herion. She needs her fix and her brain chemistry is screwed up around this dude and she will go to almost any effort to get her fix. 

You are fuc*ed up because of the disharmony in the relationship. It does not make sense but you feel it (thus why we say follow your gut).

She will lie, lie again and continue to lie.

What is the best approach? I am not sure. i do not know you or your WS.

If you get a keylogger get one that records what comes in as well as what is typed.

I am wired like you and can't hold much back. The problem with folks like us is that we reveal our hand too easily. Try to back off a little. Get all the technology you can afford and be careful about where you place it.

Talking to her may eventually work but I am not too sure.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Norn, I get what you are saying is happening, and it seems kind of odd. I use FB from my desktop and via android app on my phone. I never have to log in manually, but I believe the computer does "log in" when it contacts FB each time I bring it up. So each time your wife accesses FB she does "log in". The notification is obviously to see if you are spying on her.

I see this as probably she is hiding some bad stuff from you. Alternatively there is the chance she is just a bit psycho and either hates not having privacy or she is actively tweaking you. None of these 3 scenarios is acceptable imo.

When a person has an affair she/he gives up all rights to privacy. Really there is never a right to secrecy in a marriage, but there is a right to privacy. The difference is that your wife has the right to have a private conversation with her sister, but she doesn't have the right to hide from you the fact that she has conversations with her sister. But the affair erases the right to privacy until you say the trust is sufficiently rebuilt.

I think a more direct confrontation is in order. But this is a do-or-die kind of boundary which you have to be ready to set and enforce. She must hand you her unlocked phone at any moment upon your request. She must give you all logins for all accounts, and allow you access at any time without asking. In short, she must provide full transparency without complaint. If not, there is no reason to believe she is not cheating in some way. 

Don't let her turn this around on you as violating her rights or as you being paranoid! If she values the marriage more than secrecy, she will be transparent. If she values secrecy more than the marriage, she will choose not to be transparent. Given her recent transgressions there is every reason to believe that secrecy is hiding infidelity.

Filing for D may shock her into reality, or maybe not. Allowing her to continue disrespecting you is not going to encourage better behavior.


----------



## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

This is no way to be married. Like you're a Cold War spy. 

Yes, from what you write, it definitely looks like the affair is underground. One thought I had is that she may just have another FB profile she created -- and if you don't have an iPhone and one is showing up -- yeah, she probably got another phone (or he got her one). 

Even if she was not underground (and it looks like she is) -- her attitude isn't about R. You can't hold up a marriage by yourself and you shouldn't try. 

She's acting like you're the fall back guy. At the point she said she still loves him, and you're still there TRYING? Dude, I'd be Buh-BYE. It's disrespect. Every moment you're still there is a GIFT. And she is sh*tting on your gift. When people do that? You need to stop giving them gifts.

You MATTER. You have value. She betrayed you -- and according to you, is not ONE BIT SORRY. 

Time to serve her D papers. If it wakes her up -- well, then you have to ask yourself -- do you want a marriage with someone you have to hold a legal gun to their head to commit to you? That you have to be Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy with? 

That's not living!

This might help -- Five Things That Keep You Stuck With a Cheater


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Oh Norn, why do you seem to be the only one in this marriage who gives a [email protected]#. 

and the idea that stopping A is easy: just stop. 

Well, try the same tact on:
stopping drug usage
stopping porn addiction
stopping smoking
stopping (fill in the blank) but what ever you fill in you first have to start with *wanting* to stop....

From my 'casual observer' status into your marriage I may well be far off the mark - I hope I am for the sake of your emotional and mental health but.... I think the writing is on the walls - you need to decipher the writing. 

You either need to wait until she is truly ready to heal and rejoin your union (because no matter what she SAYS she doesn't appear to be a partner to you at the moment and hasn't been for a while) or you move on. Marriages die every day by the hundreds. Some deaths are quick and obvious, others need a coroner to pronounce the fact. FWIW


----------



## Cuckold (Aug 26, 2012)

I am in a similar situation where initially at least I have to monitor the NC.

You mentioned she might be 'deleting text messages'. It occurred to me just yesterday that what I can do is compare the number of text messages sent/received on the cell phone bill to the number found on the phone. A discrepancy would at least show that texts were deleted and if she has agreed not to delete texts, this is non-compliance.

I haven't actually done this yet, but it seems it should work in theory, although time consuming. Our phones list texts by user and not by date so getting the info we need might be difficult. Maybe syncing the phone with a computer would help.

I also use a program called Mobile-Spy but I think that it only synchronized periodically so if a message is immediately deleted, it may not get seen by you.

Good Luck


----------



## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

False R


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

While I think she is deep underground, facebook do send email notification for lots of things.
Overall, the iphone was the give away since its not yours or hers.

I noticed you never answered what you did to get info on this guy, or if you exposed him.
You watched this develop when you could have stopped it back before your breakdown, but didn't. Now you are still playing with your health.
Just SERVE the woman !!! 
She saw how much damage this did to you, and still is going about her lil EA/PA. Only deeper to keep your death off her hands. She is not even pretending to be in R.
Then there you are, not loving or respecting yourself enough to say " I deserve better ". Well, until you start loving and respecting yourself enough to DEMAND FULL COMPLIANCE with what you need to heal and R, she is just going to keep on until she brings you a bad case of VD or a lil bundle.

Personally, I feel she is only there to have you for backup or until she feels you are well enough to leave you.

You have only given her 1 shock, your breakdown, so she may feel that is emotional blackmail in a way, and feel she is justified doing what she do.
You need to start that 180 for detaching and moving on, bc she has not had any consequences an she is just going to continue her affair.

Now you can rationalize, excuse, and justify all you want, but until you START loving and respecting yourself, you are only destroying your own health.


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

Thanks for the advice so far. Even if I'm not taking it I still appreciate it. 
The slow realisation I've made is that my wife is with me for the lifestyle I provide. Without me she couldn't survive on spousal maintenance. Plus it would severley impact on our childrens futures. I come a distant third if even that.
I really don't think she is continuing her A. She knows if I caught one thing that would be it. No third chances - ever.

I need to figure out what I'm going to do with my life and then do it. That's what I'm working on at the moment. I have to get away from this "cold war spy" mentality as pointed out earlier. Its not healthy and is no way to live.

To Old Wolf - To answer your questions.
Where I live and with his "job" its not easy to find info on the OM. You could get into a lot of trouble very quickly asking those sorts of questions. So I left it alone. Self preservation really.

Throwing another question out there. Trying to do the 180 but if your WS wants to rug sweep and forget the whole thing to get on with her life and maintain the status quo and not initiate any discussion on the subject then isn't the 180 exactly the wrong thing to do ?
Secondly. My health is no longer an issue. I will not go down that road again. I'm mentally stronger and taking more exercise than ever before. Sure I have my off days but don't we all.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

Have you thought about having her sign a post nup or do you already have a pre-nup in effect?

BTW, now that you realize you're #3 on the totem pole (if even that) are you happy with that or do you want and require that she gives more?

And for the cold war spy games, it never goes away. You'll always check up on her once in a while, especially if you get into a funk or she seems distant for whatever reason. You'll do it less and less but you'll almost always check up on her for the rest of your life.

Blind love is gone and has left with Elvis out the building when she cheated.


----------



## NornIron7 (Jul 5, 2012)

Post nups a good idea - I'll think about that. Depends on how things go over the next few months.

I'm not happy being #3. That's what I meant by figuring out what I want to do and get on with it. The same for the "spying". It just takes so much effort I don't know if I could be bothered any more.

She either comes with me or she doesn't. Her choice now.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

There are times I am really glad I have lived as I did, and know some ppl that I know. 
Love that Texas slogan, " DON'T thread on me ".
But I understand self preservation.
Just make sure you are 1st this time an nothing less.
Its time she answered to you why this happned, and how do we keep it from happening again.

To hell if wants to rug sweep. Its about you healing.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Oh Norn, why do you seem to be the only one in this marriage who gives a [email protected]#.
> 
> and the idea that stopping A is easy: just stop.
> 
> ...


I agree with the "just stop". Its an addiction. Stop cold turkey, stop the minds habit of receiving dopamine overloads that it has to create more receptors in the lambic system to feel good and neutralize dopamine, load up on ascorbic acid aka vit c and a paleo/medit diet and you should be good to go!
Ive had many kill their addictions that way, from porn, to drugs and even gambling, just stop and stay away. Youre addicted to alcohol? Dont buy it, dont drive or walk past bars, dont hang around friends who drink. to
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Its difficult to feel that way norn, sometimes you just wish to find something, anything, to provide sufficient evidence for you to make your decision as that beats living in constant doubt and paranoia. Avoid gno/bno, sleepovers, vacations without you, keep the keylogger on, check it every weekend, check phone bill, sounds tough but if your gut is telling you there is possible EA action going on, id trust your gut feeling myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

NornIron7 said:


> Post nups a good idea - I'll think about that. Depends on how things go over the next few months.
> 
> I'm not happy being #3. That's what I meant by figuring out what I want to do and get on with it. The same for the "spying". It just takes so much effort I don't know if I could be bothered any more.
> 
> She either comes with me or she doesn't. Her choice now.


If you want to get serious extreme 180 and the D card should do it. You can always change your mind. Move on and she'll want to move back in. Any update on her reaction to you adding your own device to her FB? After an A, transparency is key to verify seriousness of WS for R and to verify NC to get you into withdrawal from this addictive lifestyle. None of this "privacy bologna", thats teenage immaturity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

