# 2 months post DDay, having a hard time dealing with this, good books to help me cope and figure out what I want to do?



## Jonny Be Confused (Jan 15, 2016)

Hello, I am a 42M, WS is a 43F. Married 22 years, married at 19 and she is the only woman I have ever had any romantic or sexual relationship with. It has shocked me that she did this, given our history and the way we were raised I never thought she would cheat, especially sexually. She has been living at her relatives house since dday two months ago.

She had a texting and dinner relationship with someone about a year and a half ago, don't think it was sexual but may have been emotional or getting close to it. That was a blow up and we had a lot of soul searching and new boundaries set up that she took a big dump on in the end.

Then about two months ago I found out she was in a emotional affair while working out of town for 6 months, I lived there 25% of the time until the last few months when I realized there was some really odd behavior changes and she didn't ask me to come back for a few months. She comes back home, I go see a sick family member out of town and she goes back to the town she was working in and stays with the guy for four nights. She admitted to a multi month emotional affair and having sex on the 4 day trip while I was out of town.

To say this has been hard on me is a huge understatement. This is the worst thing I have ever been through in my life and I have been sucked into chaos many times over the years. Part of the difficulty I think is being married so young and being the only woman I have ever been with.

Its a little better now than the first few weeks but still very tough, if I had preexisting suicidal tendencies I think there are two nights early on in the past two months I would have killed myself.

I am probably going to file for divorce soon, doing research on that now.

Something that is really bothering me though is how she is acting, she acts as if she doesn't want to get divorced but we have talked to three different counselors and her comment is "I don't know what I want and need to figure it out" (Me: Let me help you with that by filing for divorce). She has taken on a casual, "I am sorry, but what's done is done" and "a lot of people have affairs" type of attitude, she is playing the victim and gets mad when I try to talk to her about what happened, even when I ask in a calm non-judgmental way. She has even been emotionally abusive when I try to talk to her about what happened.

She wont read any material or books although she says she will, that was a month ago and I am not pushing her or guiding her through this process. This is why I am probably going to file soon and we have a 60 day cool down period in my state. If she can't find the ambition to work on it then there is nothing to work for IMO.

If she was genuinely sorry and remorseful it would still be hard for me not to get divorced but the way she is acting makes it practically impossible. This has been such a deep cutting insult to me the way everything has gone down and turned out, I can forgive with time, will never forget, and not sure if I could continue on and get past it.

Oddly there is a side of me that really would like for things to work out and get back on track in a healthy marriage, but the reality is setting in and I have to protect myself.

I have read Lose a cheater gain a life, and reading cheating in a nutshell. Not great books to save the marriage but very eye opening and I think they makes some very good points to consider.

*One of the main things I wanted to ask is: Is the book "Not Just Friends" a good one for me to read even if I go through with divorce?*

Does anyone have any other book recommendations that will help me deal with the pain of infidelity and how to move forward if we stay together or get divorced?

Thanks!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Not Just Friends is good for reconciliation.

Unfortunately, your wife has shown zero signs that she is a good candidate for such. 

To that end, I want to give you kudos; you are seeing her ******** for what it actually is. 

Scripts are important in situations like this. The next time she says anything about not wanting divorce, simply say the following:

"It is hard to hear your words when your actions say something else entirely."

Lastly, your mindset should be like the following:

If she isn't willing to crawl a mile through broken glass to show she can be trusted, she doesn't want to be married. 

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Jonny Be Confused (Jan 15, 2016)

Thanks for the advice. That is something that kills me, just as a thought experiment if the roles were reversed I would do everything I had to do to win her back. She is doing almost nothing.

She even went as far as to try to set conditions for ME to reconcile, WTF is that, I called her on it though, not going to tolerate that nonsense.

I guess maybe it is a good thing, if it isn't going to work out then her attitude will make it easier to file for divorce.

The only good thing is I am pretty confident it has been completely cut off from the AP.

Far Side is one of the greatest comics of all time!


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Not "Just Friends" is a good one. 

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald is another good one. In your case it will probably show you what your wife should be doing, but refuses to. 

Like said above, she does not seem like a good candidate for reconciliation at all.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Your wife sees herself as a prize and sees you as just another ticket holder. You may get to share the prize but you will never be the sole winner. 
Don’t play games with people who write their own rules.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

The only thing I’d recommend you read — and follow — is the 180.





__





The 180 for Hurt Spouses
 

The 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting , that will help your spouse to see you moving forw...




healinginfidelity.blogspot.com


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> Something that is really bothering me though is how she is acting, she acts as if she doesn't want to get divorced


It shouldn't matter at all. It shouldn't matter to you the who, why, where, how long. It should only matter that she did. MARRIEGE OVER if you have any self respect, dignity and self worth. This is not her first nor it will her last dalliance if you stay with her. At 42 you're the prize, your man-card is worth a lot more than her woman-card at 43. You'll have plenty of fish to pick, younger and more willing. Get it over with. The sooner the better. You might forgive but, YOU are never going to forget, it will always stay deep within you. It will make you resentful and you will never see her in the same light. She's damage goods now, get rid of her.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> Hello, I am a 42M, WS is a 43F. Married 22 years, married at 19 and she is the only woman I have ever had any romantic or sexual relationship with. It has shocked me that she did this, given our history and the way we were raised I never thought she would cheat, especially sexually. She has been living at her relatives house since dday two months ago.
> 
> She had a texting and dinner relationship with someone about a year and a half ago, don't think it was sexual but may have been emotional or getting close to it. That was a blow up and we had a lot of soul searching and new boundaries set up that she took a big dump on in the end.
> 
> ...


You can’t save a marriage with a remorseless cheater. It takes two with the cheater pulling the heavier load.
Marriage counseling right now is a waste of your time.

You can only be a chump if you allow it.

You should download and read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf download and short.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Be smart and get an STD test. You don’t know who or where her other man has been. Unless she cut off sex with you which is common. A lot of cheaters don’t want to cheat on their new boyfriend.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> It shouldn't matter at all. It shouldn't matter to you the who, why, where, how long. It should only matter that she did. MARRIEGE OVER if you have any self respect, dignity and self worth. This is not her first nor it will her last dalliance if you stay with her. At 42 you're the prize, your man-card is worth a lot more than her woman-card at 43. You'll have plenty of fish to pick, younger and more willing. Get it over with. The sooner the better. You might forgive but, YOU are never going to forget, it will always stay deep within you. It will make you resentful and you will never see her in the same light. She's damage goods now, get rid of her.


Please don't give him the misleading impression that will be a queue of young women falling at his feet, life just isn't like that as we see on TAM with some of the men here wanting to meet a decent woman but can't.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It's doesn't sound as if your wife is at all repentant or willing to put the effort unto the marriage sadly. Without that there is little hope. 
Do you have children?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Your WW is not even remotely remorseful for what she has done. Actually, I’m getting that she is now arrogant and probably thinks she’s doing you a favor by staying with you. I also think this is probably her 2nd sexual affair. Is the first affair with the same guy? If so, then it’s probably been sexual fir much longer than you think.

With her not giving you anything to work with, you should get your ducks in a row to leave. A shock and awe campaign of having her served, exposing to both families and close mutual friends, including naming the OM. Also expose to his spouse. This should all be done with in minutes of each other cor maximum effect. Being willing to lose the marriage to possibly save it. But it has to all be real. Not an act to get a response. 

Do not dawdle on this. The longer you stay in this emasculating marriage, the more confidence you will lose and the more respect your WW loses for you. While you prep for the D, start getting busy. Connect with friends and restart old hobbies. Start a vigorous workout regimen to get your t levels up and to burn off the stress that she has put you through. Also put more effort into your appearance. Up your game in terms of your clothes, haircut, beard, hygiene , etc. liking what you see in the mirror will compliment the confidence boost the working out will give you.

If she comes around, you can stop the D, but as it stands now, you’re being emotionally abused by your WW. Do you want to be plan b for a woman that now thinks she’s doing you a favor by staying?


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Marc878 said:


> You can’t save a marriage with a remorseless cheater. It takes two with the cheater pulling the heavier load.
> Marriage counseling right now is a waste of your time.
> 
> You can only be a chump if you allow it.
> ...


Here's one of the links to the book:

No more Mr. Nice Guy - Robert Glover

You may Google it for other free links or to download. Please read it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You might do everything possible if you were the cheater but she’s obviously not you. There’s a big difference between regret and remorse and what you’re seeing is a little regret combined with a wish to rug-sweep the whole thing. Reconciliation is difficult at best and impossible when the cheater isn’t remorseful. File and move on.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Please don't give him the misleading impression that will be a queue of young women falling at his feet, life just isn't like that as we see on TAM with some of the men here wanting to meet a decent woman but can't.


You are right to a certain point.
What I would tell him is that, even if there is no other woman in the world interested in him, walking and syaying away from the one that cheated on him would be a significative improvmente for his life.
As a preventive disclaimer, I would say the same if genders were switched.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> I never thought she would cheat, especially sexually.


Mistake No. One: Transferring your beliefs onto someone else -- especially a woman. They will and can do things that will blow away all of your preconcieved notions.

Books: A great place to start your re-education.

Rational Male -- rollo tomassi . See videos

Female Psychology for the practical guy -- Joe south.

Manipulated male -- ester villar.

Unplugged Alpha -- Rich cooper; see videos.

Guaranteed to break your preconcieved notions that you were raised upon to believe as absolute truths. Information contained within that your clergyman never told you. Will help you see reality more clearly. All are highly recommended.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ElOtro said:


> You are right to a certain point.
> What I would tell him is that, even if there is no other woman in the world interested in him, walking and syaying away from the one that cheated on him would be a significative improvmente for his life.
> As a preventive disclaimer, I would say the same if genders were switched.


Yes I agree with that part.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> *I am probably going to file for divorce soon, doing research on that now.*
> 
> Something that is really bothering me though is how she is acting, she acts as if she doesn't want to get divorced but we have talked to three different counselors and her comment is "I don't know what I want and need to figure it out" (*Me: Let me help you with that by filing for divorce*). She has taken on a casual, "I am sorry, but what's done is done" and "a lot of people have affairs" type of attitude, she is playing the victim and gets mad when I try to talk to her about what happened, even when I ask in a calm non-judgmental way. She has even been emotionally abusive when I try to talk to her about what happened.


You are playing the only card you have: leaving the relationship. And I agree with it completely. 

It takes two committed people to have a marriage. She's not committed. She's not even remorseful. 
If she is "trying to find out what she wants", that means she doesn't even really want YOU.

You can't force someone to love you, you can't force someone to respect you, and you can't force someone to make you their priority.
If the other person isn't willing to do their part to make a marriage, you just need to leave. 

Are there kids involved?


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Please don't give him the misleading impression that will be a queue of young women falling at his feet, life just isn't like that as we see on TAM with some of the men here wanting to meet a decent woman but can't.


He can certainly do better than a remorseless cheater. And things are way easier for a guy at 42 than at 22.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’m trying to gather whether she’s doing the coward’s divorce… (where they’re too lazy to get a divorce, don’t want you anymore, and do something crazy like have an affair to make YOU leave so they get to avoid the responsibility, and also make you the bad guy) but it appears she sort of doesn’t. 

But one thing I do take from your post, is that she is acting quite confident and cocky. This is her weak spot, and one you can exploit. And she’s a woman in her 40s. Another weak spot. 

So as much as this must be making you feel weak and heartbroken and small, you are in a position of great power. 

I don’t see any remorse, I see a woman who thinks she’s got star power. Note: she THINKS she has. 

I would also take one step at a time. You seem like the responsible one, so don’t spread yourself thin by worry about the future, whether you’ll meet someone, how you’ll grieve etc. 

It’s time to be clinical, boring and methodical. I would probably advise in this situation that you proceed with the divorce and stop contacting her.

She’s staying on various couches - that’s for teenagers who run away from home cause they’re not allowed to go to all the parties they want to go to. That’s who your wife is. 

A teenager in an abusive situation at home makes serious plans to find accommodation, get a job and never return to the place of pain. After they’ve slept on a safe couch. 

But the ones with a cushy life with mum and dad eventually go back home when they feel they have power. And do it again and again.

Her telling you she doesn’t know she wants a divorce means she’s the naughty type. 

She wants to be a grown up? Let her grow up on someone else’s couch, nobody else is going to enable her life for too long. 

Shut the door and let her be someone else’s problem.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

At 43 this is probably got something to do with menopause and a midlife crisis. Someone made her feel "young" again. 

Checklist:

1. *File now.* If she gets her head out of her hind quarters then you can reconsider. Divorce takes a while. If she doesn't come around then you are that much farther along with your healing.

2. *Don't do the pick-me-dance.* Makes you look weak & pathetic in her eyes and never ever works.. Many women want what they can't have.

3. *Practice the 180 religiously.* Google The 180 For Hurt Spouses.

4. *Separate all finances*, credit cards, life insurance, etc.

5.* Expose to the other man's SO or wife.* Fastest way to destroy an affair.

6.* Individual Counseling Only.* Marriage counseling is a waste of time with an unrepentant cheater.

7. *Read No More Mr. Nice Guy.* You can google for a free PDF copy.

8. *Strength & Honor!* Remember Maximus. Let her remember you that way.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

You don’t need a book (although NMMNG is well advised), you need a ****ing backbone. You need to lay down some serious consequences and conditions for you to even consider remaining in this marriage, and prepare yourself to walk away immediately if she doesn’t 100% fall in line.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Al_Bundy said:


> He can certainly do better than a remorseless cheater. And things are way easier for a guy at 42 than at 22.


Yes he should be able to do better than a cheater, that wasn't my point though. People here often tell a guy that there will be loads of young attractive women after them, it's not real life unless they are very rich/famous.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

manowar said:


> Mistake No. One: Transferring your beliefs onto someone else -- especially a woman. They will and can do things that will blow away all of your preconcieved notions.
> 
> Books: A great place to start your re-education.
> 
> ...


Some misogyny somewhre?


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> People here often tell a guy that there will be loads of young attractive women after them, it's not real life unless they are very rich/famous.


"....it's not real life unless they are very rich/famous."
It may happen even so, but there are some more important things to consider.

"...there will be loads of young attractive women after them"
The man who wish loads of them instead of a valuable only one puts himself in more trouble if he gets it than if he fails in such not so wise intent.
An attractive woman of value do not need to be a young one.
And he will probably find one (which is more than enough) amongst the ladies of his own age range.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Who is the OM? Is he married? 

Stay away from MC. She needs to be in IC with a therapist that has experience with infidelity. 

MC shifts the blame for the affair to both. That does not work with infidelity.

Your wife didn't cheat because of anything you said or didn't say or do. She cheated because she's broken inside. You have zero responsibility for her decision to cheat.

Before you can heal the marriage she needs to FIRST fix herself. Currently, she's not a safe life partner and is high risk to convince herself that she's entitled to cheat (again).

Your wife has no clue how to help you and the MC is useless. I suggest your wife read (immediately): 

_*How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful *_
by Linda J. MacDonald


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> *Then about two months ago I found out she was in a emotional affair while working out of town for 6 months*, I lived there 25% of the time until the last few months when I realized there was some really odd behavior changes and she didn't ask me to come back for a few months. She comes back home, I go see a sick family member out of town and she goes back to the town she was working in and stays with the guy for four nights. She admitted to a multi month emotional affair and having sex on the 4 day trip while I was out of town.
> 
> To say this has been hard on me is a huge understatement. This is the worst thing I have ever been through in my life and I have been sucked into chaos many times over the years. Part of the difficulty I think is being married so young and being the only woman I have ever been with.
> 
> ...


I believe you tell yourself she was in (at least) two "Emotional" affairs. I think you know within yourself that all of her however many affairs were full-on sexual, especially the six months out of town. If you went back and thought about it you can probably figure out when she uncoupled from you and went full on wanton Wayward. Maybe mid-life crisis started her down that road to sow wild oats she didn't when younger. So she has been a serial cheater for at least a year and half, maybe she has been much longer. Her attitude says she doesn't care if you know and "everyone does it" and she will do what she damn well pleases.

I don't know why you say she "acts as though she doesn't want a divorce". How would she act differently if she DID want one. Maybe she is ambivalent, if you are dumb enough to stay with her she is fine with you doing that. Nothing left to save here, sorry you are in this spot but sooner you get the D process rolling the sooner you get your life back. Your WS isn't worth another minute of your life. It is great she is living with relatives!


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Please don't give him the misleading impression that will be a queue of young women falling at his feet, life just isn't like that as we see on TAM with some of the men here wanting to meet a decent woman but can't.


As always with your pre conceived ideas when reading someone else's post. 

I never said he would have tons of young women. I said he would have "plenty of fish " to pick from and younger. That does not mean that he's in for a harem of women. That requires a man that have game; which clearly he does not.

My advice to him is actually based on reality, he would have many opportunities to pick a better younger woman or of his age that would really be into him; at least much more than what he has for a woman right now. So no, I don't think that I'm giving the OP misleading info. As always is you misinterpreting what I said.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ElOtro said:


> "....it's not real life unless they are very rich/famous."
> It may happen even so, but there are some more important things to consider.
> 
> "...there will be loads of young attractive women after them"
> ...


Yep, just as my husband did


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> As always with your pre conceived ideas when reading someone else's post.
> 
> I never said he would have tons of young women. I said he would have "plenty of fish " to pick from and younger. That does not mean that he's in for a harem of women. That requires a man that have game; which clearly he does not.
> 
> My advice to him is actually based on reality, he would have many opportunities to pick a better younger woman or of his age that would really be into him; at least much more than what he has for a woman right now. So no, I don't think that I'm giving the OP misleading info. As always is you misinterpreting what I said.


I just dont want people mislead. He will hopefully find a nice lady one day, she will more that likely be of around his age which is far more likely than a much younger one, and I sure he will be happy with that. Many men are. 
However I do think men here are often led to believe that it's going to be very easy to find lots of young women who are interested in them. Life isn't ajways like that, but when he is free to date again and if he wants to meet someone I hope he will be one of the lucky ones.


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## Jonny Be Confused (Jan 15, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> It shouldn't matter at all. It shouldn't matter to you the who, why, where, how long. It should only matter that she did. MARRIEGE OVER if you have any self respect, dignity and self worth. This is not her first nor it will her last dalliance if you stay with her.........It will make you resentful and you will never see her in the same light. She's damage goods now, get rid of her.


This is something I thought about. If she did make a turnaround and truly wanted to reconcile and put in the work to fix things, how hard is it going forward? I can forgive eventually but I will never forget, I've read several stories where people are still struggling after infidelity to deal with is years and years after dday, this seems like a miserable way to go. But then on another side I also read where people have better marriages after reconciling and working it out, I would imagine those cases are where the WS is all in 100% and willing to do whatever it takes to reconcile.




Marc878 said:


> You should download and read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf download and short.


That is a great book, I listened to the audio version but am going to revisit it and read it again. I didn't feel like I related to it 100% but definitely up personal things for me to deal with and work on.




Marc878 said:


> Be smart and get an STD test. You don’t know who or where her other man has been. Unless she cut off sex with you which is common. A lot of cheaters don’t want to cheat on their new boyfriend.


One of the first things I did and told her to do the same. She is paying for it also!

The odd thing is the few weeks before her 4 day trip back we had good passionate sex several times. I think I would have preferred her just cutting things off to be honest.




Diana7 said:


> It's doesn't sound as if your wife is at all repentant or willing to put the effort unto the marriage sadly. Without that there is little hope.
> Do you have children?


No kids which is a good thing at this point, a curse before.




jsmart said:


> .......Actually, I’m getting that she is now arrogant and probably thinks she’s doing you a favor by staying with you. I also think this is probably her 2nd sexual affair. Is the first affair with the same guy?
> 
> With her not giving you anything to work with, you should get your ducks in a row to leave. A shock and awe campaign of having her served, exposing to both families and close mutual friends, including naming the OM. Also expose to his spouse. This should all be done with in minutes of each other cor maximum effect. Being willing to lose the marriage to possibly save it. But it has to all be real. Not an act to get a response.
> 
> ...


A lot of good points. The first issue was a different guy and as soon as I found out about it I consistently GPS tracked her for over a year, that's how I knew they went to dinner but I never saw her gone for extended periods of time near hotels or someone's house. That's the only reason I think the first issue wasn't sexual, although I am now of the opinion that emotional affairs are just as bad as physical especially for women.

One other thing I have read more than once is that the WW will lose respect for the man that stays in the marriage after infidelity. Is this a common thing or more determined by how truly remorseful the wife is? In other words if you push for reconciliation but the WW is not all in then they lose respect?

I have backed off of her a lot, not quit to the 180 yet but just about there now. I refuse to guide her through this process, if she doesn't have the ambition to figure it out along with the few books that were recommended for her to read then it is dead in the water and nothing to work for.




Dictum Veritas said:


> Here's one of the links to the book:
> No more Mr. Nice Guy - Robert Glover


Thanks, good book and I listened to the audio version but planning on reading it again.




Wolfman1968 said:


> If the other person isn't willing to do their part to make a marriage, you just need to leave.
> 
> Are there kids involved?


That is where I am at now. I'm not going to hold her hand and guide her through this, and if she doesn't make a big turn around then there is nothing to fight for. No kids involved.




Luckylucky said:


> I’m trying to gather whether she’s doing the coward’s divorce… (where they’re too lazy to get a divorce, don’t want you anymore, and do something crazy like have an affair to make YOU leave so they get to avoid the responsibility, and also make you the bad guy) but it appears she sort of doesn’t.
> 
> But one thing I do take from your post, is that she is acting quite confident and cocky. This is her weak spot, and one you can exploit. And she’s a woman in her 40s. Another weak spot.......
> 
> ......It’s time to be clinical, boring and methodical. I would probably advise in this situation that you proceed with the divorce and stop contacting her......


Something else that bothered me is that I came this -> . <- close to never finding out what happened. She came back home and acted normal, I could tell she had a attitude, but if I never confronted her I doubt she would have ever admitted to anything. She told me that she thought I would never know and we could go on living happily married....

I will most likely file soon after a lawyer consult.




skerzoid said:


> .....5.* Expose to the other man's SO or wife.* Fastest way to destroy an affair.


Earlier on I sat her down and said I wanted to let the mans wife know what happened, they live in another country and I have no way to contact her. My WW got really upset at the thought of hurting the POS marriage, gee too bad she didn't worry that much about ruining our marriage.




ElOtro said:


> Some misogyny somewhre?


I have heard of several of those books being highly recommended, do you think some of the books are misogynistic?




Robert22205 said:


> Who is the OM? Is he married?.......MC shifts the blame for the affair to both. That does not work with infidelity.....
> 
> Your wife didn't cheat because of anything you said or didn't say or do. She cheated because she's broken inside. You have zero responsibility for her decision to cheat.
> 
> ...


He is from Japan (wife is Japanese) and only in the US temporarily, he is married and if I knew how to contact his wife in Japan I would.

Thanks for the reminder, I am of the mindset it is 100% her fault for the affair and if we were to go to a MC that tries to pin it on me then I would walk out. I realize we have issues that should have been resolved before now but so do millions of other couples that never have affairs.




Rus47 said:


> .....I don't know why you say she "acts as though she doesn't want a divorce". How would she act differently if she DID want one. Maybe she is ambivalent, if you are dumb enough to stay with her she is fine with you doing that. Nothing left to save here, sorry you are in this spot but sooner you get the D process rolling the sooner you get your life back. Your WS isn't worth another minute of your life. It is great she is living with relatives!


Just from what I know about her I think she is terrified of being booted and living on her own. She has been very dependent on me in a lot of ways over the years in spite of me constantly encouraging her to be more self dependent for some things.

Earlier on after she got back from this contract she has been trying to find another job, she went to a near by town but it is not driving distance from where we live so she would have had to move, I told her that if she takes another job out of town I would file for divorce the next day and she freaked out about that comment and did not take the job. She also has tried to get me to go out to dinner with her a few times which I refused due to the overall lack of remorse she has shown.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

A friend of mine got divorced at 40 with two young girls in grade school. He was worried about finding someone.

Later on he couldn’t find the time to date them all. From what I’ve seen that’s the rule (if you’re a good steady guy with a decent job). Not the exception. He dated many for a couple of years before finding one right for him.

HE TRADED WAY UP!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I just dont want people mislead. He will hopefully find a nice lady one day, she will more that likely be of around his age which is far more likely than a much younger one, and I sure he will be happy with that. Many men are.
> However I do think men here are often led to believe that it's going to be very easy to find lots of young women who are interested in them. Life isn't ajways like that, but when he is free to date again and if he wants to meet someone I hope he will be one of the lucky ones.


A lot of younger ladies are attracted to older steady men. I’ve seen this over and over. You’ll see.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Marc878 said:


> A lot of younger ladies are attracted to older steady men. I’ve seen this over and over. You’ll see.


Case in point. After I divorced my ex-wife due to her infidelity, I stayed a bachelor for a couple of years by choice. Now I have a wife 10 years my junior and 2 lovely children. This is not rare at all.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If you dump a cheater, cut off contact and stay out of the victim chair you will have a better life.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> A lot of younger ladies are attracted to older steady men. I’ve seen this over and over. You’ll see.


Not my experience at all. I have actually heard several young women complain about much older men coming after them and they want a guy near their own age understandably. Why would a woman in her 20's say be interested in a divorced man in his 40's with children? Unless they are after money and he is well off.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Not my experience at all. I have actually heard several young women complain about much older men coming after them and they want a guy near their own age understandably. Why would a woman in her 20's say be interested in a divorced man in his 40's with children? Unless they are after money and he is well off.


I’m not talking about someone 20 years younger. I know 3 Who’ve went through this and they seem to attract 30-35 year olds and they are around the Age of 40.

A lot of women look for security, stability and maturity.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> I’m not talking about someone 20 years younger. I know 3 Who’ve went through this and they seem to attract 30-35 year olds and they are around the Age of 40.
> 
> A lot of women look for security, stability and maturity.


5 years is nothing really is it. In fact I know quite a few couples where the women is older than the man. Most couples seem to get together with people who are at a similar life stage. So neither married, both as yet childless, both divorced, both divorced with children and so in. 
A person who is divorced and having to pay for 2 or 3 children till they are 18 and who has an ex wife to deal with may not be an attractive proposition to a woman some years younger who hasn't as yet been married and who wants children of her own.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

At 42 even with two kids you will have no problem finding dates, etc. just take your time and stay out of rebound situations. Read up on rebounds. Your biggest problem will be not jumping into another relationship too soon. At your age you will have no problem finding casual dates. Finding the right one for you may take time. If that’s what you seek.

Never introduce your kids early. Take your time. Kids bond quick and if it doesn’t work out they get hurt.

I think you’re going to be pleasantly surprised.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Not my experience at all. I have actually heard several young women complain about much older men coming after them and they want a guy near their own age understandably. Why would a woman in her 20's say be interested in a divorced man in his 40's with children? Unless they are after money and he is well off.


If the guy is rocking the dad bod and cargo shorts you have a point. If he's in the gym and has his act together why wouldn't they be attracted?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Al_Bundy said:


> If the guy is rocking the dad bod and cargo shorts you have a point. If he's in the gym and has his act together why wouldn't they be attracted?


We have no idea what he is like so telling him he will find someone very easily may well be very misleading. It just doesn't happen like that for a lot of people even if he even wants to meet someone else right now or in the near future.

It also depends what he wants. Casual sex is probably easy to get on certain sites like tinder, but a good women for a long term relationship or Marriage is another story.
Not everyone wants another person's baggage especially if they don't have much themselves so we do need to be realistic in what we tell others.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Sorry but I still doubt her story...have you asked her to take a polygraph and would she take one to save her marriage?


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Not my experience at all. I have actually heard several young women complain about much older men coming after them and they want a guy near their own age understandably. Why would a woman in her 20's say be interested in a divorced man in his 40's with children? Unless they are after money and he is well off.


Even if I wouldn´t choose at all a woman significative younger than me (and I didn´t) this thing happens and much more frequenltly than you may find reasonable.
Even to a man like me when I was 39 years old and was left as the "single father" and only available parent of three.
And, believe me, I´m not a celeb and neither scandalous rich at all.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> This is something I thought about. If she did make a turnaround and truly wanted to reconcile and put in the work to fix things, how hard is it going forward? I can forgive eventually but I will never forget, I've read several stories where people are still struggling after infidelity to deal with is years and years after dday, this seems like a miserable way to go. But then on another side I also read where people have better marriages after reconciling and working it out, I would imagine those cases are where the WS is all in 100% and willing to do whatever it takes to reconcile.


The ones that seem to make better marriages are where the BS takes responsibility for the WS’s actions. Or the BS is ok with the WS having another relationship in the end.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Not my experience at all. I have actually heard several young women complain about much older men coming after them and they want a guy near their own age understandably. Why would a woman in her 20's say be interested in a divorced man in his 40's with children? Unless they are after money and he is well off.


Probably because men in that age group are just amazing. Let’s face it, we look great and we’re right in the sweet spot career-wise. Many of us have done things by now and have the toys and trinkets to show for it.

We’re pretty terrific.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

ABHale said:


> The ones that seem to make better marriages are where the BS takes responsibility for the WS’s actions. Or the BS is ok with the WS having another relationship in the end.


Sorry for my never enough English. I suspect I´m missunderstanding your post.
"The ones that seem to make better marriages are where the BS takes responsibility for the WS’s actions."
The only way in wich I conceive to make it a "better" marriage in such conditions is to also make it an Ex marriage.
If this is true, his main responsability failure would be not ending it earlier.
But again, I´m not sure if that is also your view


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## Jonny Be Confused (Jan 15, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> At 42 even with two kids you will have no problem finding dates, etc. just take your time and stay out of rebound situations. Read up on rebounds. Your biggest problem will be not jumping into another relationship too soon. At your age you will have no problem finding casual dates. Finding the right one for you may take time. If that’s what you seek.
> 
> Never introduce your kids early. Take your time. Kids bond quick and if it doesn’t work out they get hurt.
> 
> I think you’re going to be pleasantly surprised.


That's good to know. No kids so maybe that helps also. I definitely don't feel like anything related to dating at the moment but once things start to normalize for me emotionally I can definitely see that.




Al_Bundy said:


> If the guy is rocking the dad bod and cargo shorts you have a point. If he's in the gym and has his act together why wouldn't they be attracted?


I agree, from what I have witnessed with male friends and acquaintances that is right on.




Diana7 said:


> We have no idea what he is like so telling him he will find someone very easily may well be very misleading. It just doesn't happen like that for a lot of people even if he even wants to meet someone else right now or in the near future.


I get the perspective you are coming from but please understand that for a man to deal with infidelity by someone he loved and wanted to be with long term is a very deep deep....... deep cut to him, it devastates your confidence, self esteem, the disrespect to you as a person is practically unbearable, especially when you have given so much over the years to provide for someone and then they turn around and do this, in reality the WW just made some stupid decisions and the affair is a defect on her part not my part. I am NOT trying to say that it is easier for women to deal with infidelity, not at all, but I think there are certain aspects that cut men to their core that is different than women. Looking at it statistically men are much more likely to get divorced after infidelity than women, betrayal is such a hard thing to get over.

So given that perspective it is important for men to encourage each other in situations like this. To be honest I agree with what the other guys are saying, every man I know that was single in his 30's, 40's etc. has married a woman a little younger to 10 years or some times 15 years younger in a few cases, most of them in the 10 year younger range, none of them are wealthy or overly handsome men either, but they are stable and mature men that take care of themselves.

I think that a lot of guys realize that it may be necessary to better yourself to make yourself more attractive to a potential mate. Even the 500 pound guy that is a cashier at the local grocery store can take steps to make himself a much better person and be much more attractive than his current state, not every guy is willing to do that but it is possible at least.




Lostinthought61 said:


> Sorry but I still doubt her story...have you asked her to take a polygraph and would she take one to save her marriage?


There were two specific points in realizing the affair, at first she admitted to visiting the guy and a emotional affair then a few weeks after that she admitted to having sex.

Before she admitted to having sex I asked if she would take a polygraph test and she immediately refused and said it was intrusive. After she admitted to having sex I asked her again to take it and she agreed to do so without hesitating, maybe that is a good sign, maybe she thinks she can fool it, either way if there is even a remote chance of making it work I will make her take a test. I know it isn't 100% accurate but that combined with everything else I know should help at least.




ABHale said:


> The ones that seem to make better marriages are where the BS takes responsibility for the WS’s actions. Or the BS is ok with the WS having another relationship in the end.


That's the thing, I refuse to take any responsibility for her choice to have a affair or act out like this, and I refuse to guide her through the process of being remorseful and reconciling. In the past three years when I started noticing some behavior problems I tried to get her to go to counseling, I tried to get her to read relationship books, I tried to make sure we had good deep connections with each other emotionally and she has fought and outright refused in a lot of the cases. Now either she makes some drastic changes or there is 0 hope for reconciliation, even if she did make a turnaround I am not sure I want to stay married.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

While nothing is fool proof, having her take a polygraph and asking a particular question may provide deeper answers that might lead to more discovery...but i would only do so if you truly intend to stay with her, personally i leave her brother.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Everyone that goes through these things is down upfront. The one thing everyone ive known says no contact is your best friend. 

You’ll be fine. The only one who can make you a chump is yourself.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> That's the thing, I refuse to take any responsibility for her choice to have a affair or act out like this, and I refuse to guide her through the process of being remorseful and reconciling. In the past three years when I started noticing some behavior problems I tried to get her to go to counseling, I tried to get her to read relationship books, I tried to make sure we had good deep connections with each other emotionally and she has fought and outright refused in a lot of the cases. Now either she makes some drastic changes or there is 0 hope for reconciliation, even if she did make a turnaround I am not sure I want to stay married.


All I am hearing is that you tried to save the marriage/relationship. Your wife didn’t help.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

OP, first and foremost, unless your cheater wife is wearing a suit of armor that she can never take off, her affair was physical, not "emotional." Maybe you acknowledged that and I just missed it in one of your marathon replies quoting everyone and answering them all in one post...lol.

Grownups who are romantically involved don't spend their time holding hands at the malt shop, playing the jukebox, reading their bibles and sharing a strawberry shake. They're adults and they're going to do what adults *DO*. That's just a simple fact.

Why on earth you think she's going to suddenly turn into a decent human being is beyond me. Stop with the self-help books and begging her to be who she isn't. She's shown you *exactly* who she is and you need to believe her and move forward accordingly.


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## Jonny Be Confused (Jan 15, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> OP, first and foremost, unless your cheater wife is wearing a suit of armor that she can never take off, her affair was physical, not "emotional." Maybe you acknowledged that and I just missed it in one of your marathon replies quoting everyone and answering them all in one post...lol.
> 
> Grownups who are romantically involved don't spend their time holding hands at the malt shop, playing the jukebox, reading their bibles and sharing a strawberry shake. They're adults and they're going to do what adults *DO*. That's just a simple fact.
> 
> Why on earth you think she's going to suddenly turn into a decent human being is beyond me. Stop with the self-help books and begging her to be who she isn't. She's shown you *exactly* who she is and you need to believe her and move forward accordingly.


She admitted to having sex with the second person.

This is the unfortunate reality that is setting in for me.

I don't know what your experience is or if you can relate but what is so hard for me is we married young at 19, in a few weeks it will be our 23 year anniversary, up to about 2 months ago I knew we had issues to work on but I really thought she was loyal and was side swiped by this whole ordeal, to say it has been devastating for me is putting it mildly. Other than finding a time machines under a rock I guess something in me wishes she would be all in trying to reconcile. But if that were the case she wouldn't have f#$ked someone else.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> She admitted to having sex with the second person.
> 
> This is the unfortunate reality that is setting in for me.
> 
> I don't know what your experience is or if you can relate but what is so hard for me is we married young at 19, in a few weeks it will be our 23 year anniversary, up to about 2 months ago I knew we had issues to work on but I really thought she was loyal and was side swiped by this whole ordeal, to say it has been devastating for me is putting it mildly. Other than finding a time machines under a rock I guess something in me wishes she would be all in trying to reconcile. But if that were the case she wouldn't have f#$ked someone else.


If you are at all inclined to save your marriage, you have to be willing to end it.

Start with something drastic — have her served with divorce papers on your anniversary.


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## Jonny Be Confused (Jan 15, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Start with something drastic — have her served with divorce papers on your anniversary.


Hmmmm, I do like the sound of that!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> Hmmmm, I do like the sound of that!


Google this:

“u/Jaque_LeCaque”


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## Imnobodynew (Feb 11, 2016)

Op is your wife native Japanese? Are you stateside, or in Japan?


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## Jonny Be Confused (Jan 15, 2016)

Imnobodynew said:


> Op is your wife native Japanese? Are you stateside, or in Japan?


She was born and raised in Japan until she was 18 and then lived in the USA until now.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@Jonny Be Confused , just checking in. How are things going?


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

I just read your first post and now posting my reply. I'll read the rest of the thread later.

Based on that single post alone, I think there might be an alternate possibility.

I think this might be her exit affair. it's possible that she's done with the marriage. If you had kids then they have probably left and she's feeling the empty-nest syndrome. She cares for you, and she probably does not want to be the bad person to initiate the divorce. So, it's possible that she did this in order for you to initiate the divorce proceedings.

How are you doing otherwise? I've noticed that you haven't been around for a while now.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I just dont want people mislead. He will hopefully find a nice lady one day, she will more that likely be of around his age which is far more likely than a much younger one, and I sure he will be happy with that. Many men are.
> However I do think men here are often led to believe that it's going to be very easy to find lots of young women who are interested in them. Life isn't ajways like that, but when he is free to date again and if he wants to meet someone I hope he will be one of the lucky ones.


@Diana7 I assume you don't have much experience in the dating world do you?!
You have no idea what men in there 40s and 50s can pull when they have their s***t together!
Bless your soul


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Kaliber said:


> @Diana7 I assume you don't have much experience in the dating world do you?!
> You have no idea what men in there 40s and 50s can pull when they have their s***t together!
> Bless your soul


I think women base their belief of sexual market value on what they experienced in their youth (especially if they married younger). They may also be fooled by the number of men willing to hook up (but only hook up) with them at any age.

As men age, their sexual market value increases significantly. Women in their 30s or older are shocked (or in for a shock) when they discover this.

Finding a long term, high value partner is much easier for an older man than an older woman. Of course, for short term hookups, women will have the advantage at any age.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

Kaliber said:


> @Diana7 I assume you don't have much experience in the dating world do you?!
> You have no idea what men in there 40s and 50s can pull when they have their s***t together!
> Bless your soul


Came here to say this. If @Jonny Be Confused has his act together and keeps himself fit in his 40's then his prospects are bright in the dating arena. However for his partner it's going to be a difficult issue. She will most definitely be able to find a lots of matches who would want to be with her but only as a casual thing. It'd be difficult for her to find someone who would be interested in having a serious relationship with her. This is compounded by the fact about why her previous marriage ended. Men will be very cautious about dating a woman who has cheated in her previous relationship.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Jonny Be Confused said:


> Something that is really bothering me though is how she is acting, she acts as if she doesn't want to get divorced but we have talked to three different counselors and her comment is "I don't know what I want and need to figure it out" (Me: Let me help you with that by filing for divorce). She has taken on a casual, "I am sorry, but what's done is done" and "a lot of people have affairs" type of attitude, she is playing the victim and gets mad when I try to talk to her about what happened, even when I ask in a calm non-judgmental way. She has even been emotionally abusive when I try to talk to her about what happened.


The lack of remorse is always the worst part but it makes sense that it goes hand in hand with cheating. The mental gymnastics a woman would have to go through to let a man, not her husband, stick his **** (ALWAYS with no condom) inside her probably has her convinced in her head that you are Adolf Hitler.

Would you feel sorry for cheating on Adolf Hitler?


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