# It's over?



## photon (Aug 9, 2016)

Hello,

Advice needed please.

Married 11 years, together 16, both aged 38, no children. Both have good careers, no money worries and I thought a good relationship but a lot of underlying problems.

I've had a problem with porn which I kept hidden our entire relationship and predates it. My wife had no clue about this.

About a year ago, she started acting very funny and distant. She'd been doing a lot of psychotherapy before this for about a year and has a lot of childhood issues (physical abuse) and poor relationship with her family. Sex between us stopped. She told me that she needed more from our relationship and I needed to sort things out. Problems continued until Dec. Then I hacked her iPhone and found she had been having an affair with a guy from work for a couple of months. A lot of sexually explicit detail and stuff she wouldn't do with me. My wife had also been emotionally unfaithful with an old close female friend who supported the affair and lied to me about her whereabouts as well.

I confronted her. Lots of arguing and I moved out of our flat. All Dec rough. We've not had sex since before she started sleeping with this other guy. (that is about the one decent thing she's done during this time).

I revealed my porn problem to her as a realised this was causing a serious issue for years. I was asking her to be honest with me but not being honest with her. I got help and am well into recovery now, doing better. Sometimes she gets really angry and hurt about it but more lately we've been able to joke a little around it to deal with it. I go to a support group weekly and have been all this year.

Wife has continued to stay distant - or rather I feel there is a barrier/withholding. We talk and see each other a lot (most days). She tells me the affair is over (the text conversations indicate he dumped her late last year but maybe they got it back on, who knows). She won't talk much about it. I suspect more happened than she told me and possibly she went and had a one night stand or two after, or slept with her poisonous female friend (they are "I love you"). Don't know. She just clams up if I get near.

We got to MC weekly but she is still withholding a lot. Won't talk much about the affair, lots of issues around trust and privacy, blames me for everything, it is all my fault although admits affair was wrong/sorry not much remorse.

She is still guarded about her phone. Doesn't want me to move back in (I don't either). But won't give up. Feel like she's having a breakdown, but she's still functioning OK at work. I recently had a serious health scare and she was very supportive then. All over me. So she can put it on when she wants to. Feels very manipulative.

Earlier this year, I was tapping her internet usage and found some disturbing stuff so I stopped. Nothing hard (I was only logging websites not full URLs). It looked a lot like affair still ongoing.

A couple of months ago, she went for IVF egg collection which was pretty traumatic for her. Even though we live apart. Saying she might want a child in future but needs a lot of time etc. During this time due to all the drugs etc. she was strictly no sex for few weeks (very risky complications if she got pregnant and she is ultra cautious). 

I found she had an online dating profile up on the Internet (smart). Told her I was very hurt and remove or else. She took it down asap and really apologetic. Said it was stupid etc. Admitted she'd met a couple of guys from there but felt so very sad she didn't want to follow up. One guy told her she looked so sad. I saw chat logs to back this up, so feel it's truthful. I've had the ILYBINILWY speech a couple of times.

She's been hanging around with a lot of single 40-something women friends a lot. Living a heavy party lifestyle these past few months. Drinking heavily, little sleep and drugs reasonably often too.

We had a really good weekend just gone - very good for both of us but I feel she's still holding back. I still love her. But I think we both know deep down that we had a pretty good life and she's screwed it up and there's no way back but she doesn't want to admit it. So, she carries on thinking she can have her cake and eat it.

Mostly I think I need to MTFU with her and say this goes on no more. Make your mind up or I will. She's in a bad place and I want to be supportive but I can't go on like this.

She says that I'm not the man she married because of the porn, if she had known she would never have married me, that I don't desire her etc. From talking to other guys and partners, I can understand this is not irrational. I think she's being harsh and maybe using this as a bit of smokescreen. She can be very devious.

I just can't get to the bottom of what's holding her back. I'm guessing it must be something so bad that she thinks I'll definitely leave her if she told me. i.e. affair still on going or she got pregnant or something (she insists no and gets angry). The best I get from her is that she thinks I will humilate her and "it's complicated."


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

File for divorce, see how fast things change, the affair is definitely ongoing. Expose affair to other betrayed spouse if married. If a workplace affair, tell her you are going to expose to HR. Nothing can be worked on until the affair ends. When she calls you tell her you need the truth and to call back when she can be strong enough to give it to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You have rug swept and failed to provide her consequences. No contact. Exposure. Your oneitis will be your undoing. As long as you chase, she'll run.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Photon my man, it sounds like you need her way more than she needs you. I wouldn't worry so much about you being supportive. You're supporting her so much youre practically helping her to f over you. You can't get any more supportive than that.
She's banging other guys, telling you she no longer wants or romantically loves you and doesn't want you living with her, perusing dating sites, partying, drinking, drugging with the single girls with little doubt picking up men. What does this girl have to do to convince you she's no longer interested in having you for anything but to maybe underwrite her new lifestyle? You need a dose of reality and self respect Dawg.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I would not expose anything. It will just make you look foolish. Just divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

What do you want? 

I think you need to divorce her as fast as possible.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Why would you want her, you liking porn while wrong to hide doesn't give her a right to cheat on you. You can do better, many woman don't even care if you like porn. Many will like it with you.


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## Ralph Bellamy (Aug 8, 2016)

No children? Run Forrest! Run!!


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Divorce her ASAP.

You coasted thru a stop sign, then gave up your license and have been in driver's education classes since.

She ran over some school children, but yet is still is out driving around. 

This seem fair to you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

She's doing other guys, partying with women friends, doing drugs... you really want her back? It pretty obvious she doesn't want you and is keeping you at arms length for a reason, possibly to keep you around as a plan B. She uses the porn for an excuse but that's not the real issue here. She would be acting like this even if you did't tell her about that. It's time you demanded action, to this point you've let her do whatever she damn pleases. Since you don't have any kids it probably makes sense to divorce her.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Serve her divorce papers today. Then tomorrow go start dating and experiencing all the great single women that are out there. You'll be much happier 6 months from now, trust me.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Your thought of manning up is spot on. It works...very well.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

photon said:


> I've had a problem with porn which I kept hidden our entire relationship and predates it. My wife had no clue about this.
> 
> About a year ago, she started acting very funny and distant.


She had no clue about your porn use until you told her.

She cheated for "other" reasons. Was it somehow related with this behavior...porn and Onanism? 

Especially so, if you did not sexually/emotionally satisfy her....only yourself.

If this is *NOT* the case, it is all on her. 

Note: The cheating is *ALWAYS* on the cheater. The reasons for discontent, not so much. She should have told you of her unhappiness. 

If things between you folks did not improve, she should have asked for a divorce....not debase herself and cheat. She gave up her girl scout "Honor Badge". They only issue one of those per lifetime. Shame on her.

She is* Gaslighting*, finding excuses for her behavior. No *Remorse*. And no *1902 Morse Model A*, in her birthday plans for you. 

I would rev up my vintage Triumph and leave a single skid mark in your driveway.....heading into the Sunset....if the Sun shows it's face in your part of the world. Else, run between the raindrops toward the Sea.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Another naive BS.

Friend, let me clue you in. Your porn use does not equal her cheating on you. It shouldn't even be in the same discussion. Your wife is 100% to blame for her infidelity, whatever the marital issues. Stop accepting any blame.

Your feckless, conciliatory reaction to her betrayal is the issue. It's good that you are separated, but if anyone leaves the home it should be her. Get back in your house and ask her to leave. If she won't, separate her from your bedroom. 

Implement the 180 to detach from her, see an attorney, separate your finances, start the divorce process and plan your exit strategy.

Unless or until she demonstrates genuine remorse and accepts consequences for what she's done; proceed with the divorce until it is final. Let her really understand what it feels like to loose her husband for cheating. If that doesn't turn her around, nothing will. 

And in the unlikely event she does turn around, check with us for more advice before you make any decisions. We'll let you know what consequences she has to accept and how to best judge her remorse.

You have to be willing to end your marriage to have the best chance to save it.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

photon said:


> I just can't get to the bottom of what's holding her back. I'm guessing it must be something so bad that she thinks I'll definitely leave her if she told me. i.e. affair still on going or she got pregnant or something (she insists no and gets angry). The best I get from her is that she thinks I will humilate her and "it's complicated."


The better question is what is holding YOU back?

She is giving you nothing to inspire hope that anything other than divorce is possible.


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## zzzman99 (Oct 23, 2015)

badmemory said:


> Another naive BS.
> 
> Friend, let me clue you in. Your porn use does not equal her cheating on you. It shouldn't even be in the same discussion. Your wife is 100% to blame for her infidelity, whatever the marital issues. Stop accepting any blame.
> 
> ...


This. And grow some balls. Who knew there was so many p___s in the world. And just why is it that she is not attracted to you?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Dude. Really? What boundaries do you possibly have? How low is your self esteem?

If you said you were living with a crack wh0re who was an "escort" in the evening, IT LITERALLY WOULD NOT BE ANY WORSE THAN YOUR CURRENT SITUATION!

open your eyes. Leave now. If your name is on the lease or you own the place, sell it or pay off the landlord to have your name removed. It would be worth paying a full years rent if you have to in order to extricate yoursekf


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Oh and definitely go ghost. You don't have the balls right now to talk to her and stick to your plan so just disappear completely from her life


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

what was the extent of your porn use and problem? how much do you estimate damage to your marriage and how?
did you ignore your wife sexually and avoid her? withhold affection and intimacy? how often did you 'come together' in the years leading up to your affair?

the above is not to in anyway excuse your wife. she sounds like an entitled, hopeless serial cheater.

but you must self reflect. i realize you are already addressing the problem with counseling, but it would help to know how much of a problem it was, (or even if it was one).


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

It never ceases to amaze me how many BHs come here and come up with ways to justify why their wife was unfaithful. She's unfaithful because of your porn use? Please stop it. It's a mechanism to justify trying to R with an adulterous woman. It never works. Women despise weak men. And I sorry to say, you have been VERY WEAK. 

Not trying to hurt your feelings or break you down any more than I imagine you already are but you must come to grips. This is over. It is a blessing that you don't have any children with her. If she has mental issues, that's on her and whoever wants to sign up for her. As for you, file and don't look back. 

Get yourself into a gym and sweat that pain away. Don't go rush into the dating world because you're not mentally ready. Your time will come. Right now, you need to rebuild yourself mentally and physically.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

You had a porn problem for years that you kept hidden from her.

Depending on how left out and undesirable this made her feel, she may hate your guts by now.

Like asked up thread, to what extent did you abandon her for porn. Using it instead of having sex with her? Expecting her to behave or look like your favorite porn acts/Performers?

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Most of the men here will defend your pornography use to their dying breath. It is not even allowed to be considered as a factor in the disintegration of the relationship with your wife.

So, stay and get lots of slaps on the back for what a great guy you are, and how this is all on her.

Women don't have to watch pornography, women can have actual real sex with another human being, if they want. That's what makes most of the guys here so angry. Hours and hours spent watching some of the sickest sh1t that can be thought up......no problem. Wife sexts with guy at work.....the lying, cheating b1tch.

Though I have to admit, your wife didn't just retaliate, she thermonuclear derailed.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

This has to stop.

Yes you both done wrong but while you're attempting to fix it, she's walking all over you. 

She either wants to work on this marriage with you or not.

She's allowed to be pissed and angry, just as you have the right to be pissed and angry she was banging all those dudes, now seemingly with your permission because you're doing zero about it.

How old are you guys, playing these silly games or at least she is.

When is enough enough?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

notmyrealname4 said:


> You had a porn problem for years that you kept hidden from her.
> 
> Depending on how left out and undesirable this made her feel, she may hate your guts by now.
> 
> ...


I am not defending his porn use; just as I would not defend a husband's inattention, lack of affection, critical nature or anything else that would be problematic for the relationship. But the infidelity trumps any marital issue. To bring up his porn use before the cheating is dealt with, is simply obfuscation and excuse making. It allows her to blame shift and minimize.

*IF*, she owns what she did and demonstrates genuine remorse; and *IF* he agrees to R, *then* the porn issue can be addressed as part of their shared efforts to improve the marriage. And if he doesn't meet her needs/expectations for that issue, hopefully she will have learned that she can "talk or walk" instead of cheat.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If she is guarding her phone, she is still being either emotionally or physically unfaithful.

This is why she is distant.


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

You wonder what is holding her back? Nothing. Nothing is holding her back.

She has checked out of the marriage. She is out doing what she wants. 

Maybe she just does not have the guts to pull the plug. But her actions scream "I am done being your wife."

Move on.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> I confronted her. Lots of arguing and I moved out of our flat. All Dec rough. We've not had sex since before she started sleeping with this other guy. (that is about the one decent thing she's done during this time).


Decent thing you say? *Decent*-thing?

It was nothing of the damn kind! 

The reason she stopped having sex with you was because she felt like she would be cheating on her lover.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

badmemory said:


> Another naive BS.
> 
> You have to be willing to end your marriage to have the best chance to save it.


You have to be willing to upend your carriage to have the best chance to brave sh!t.

Your marriage is ended. It is broken.

If you are a patient and forgiving man you could gather all the pieces and reassemble the jumble that was your marriage.

Problem? After re-adhesion, too many glued lines will show up. The pieces will not quite fit together, as before.

Alignment may be permanently pointing South and Down. 

And WS's repaired facial image will likely will have a fixed smirk.

If you are Myoptic, Nerve Numbed and have an Oil Gland near your tail [to make your feathers water and insult repellant] go for Reconciliation, R to TAM.... A to ZZ Top.

That is my too sense... 2 Roman Widow-Mite coins....worth.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

@notmyrealname4

Not defending porn use. It shouldn't be secret nor should it be an obsession that takes away from the marriage.

According to OP's one post, he confessed that to her after he caught her affairs. So not sure how the affairs are retaliating for his porn use.

Honey why are you so distant? is the correct question. Not hmmm I'm not getting the attention I deserve let me sleep with guys and dolls.

In any event, the marriage is over and I doubt OP will be back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw I live porn but have daily sex with my W. It's actually not mutually exclusive and it's not objectively "bad". It's visually stimulating and allows me to quickly switch gears and get my juices flowing. I've told my W too. Let's not get hung up on any one thing and look at the complete picture. W is stepping out and OP is ok with it I guess 


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ok I don't really live porn but I love it 


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Ok I don't really live porn but I love it


Damn spell check does not the smell check pass!

Auto spell check requires Manual spell correction. What is wrong with this picture?


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Buddy,


Google the signs your wife is cheating, and one of the first, if not the first things you will find is GUARDING THE PHONE . A bunch of total strangers have just read what you have posted and the overwhelming majority would probably bet cash money that she is having sex with another man at this very moment while you are playing the PICK ME GAME.

I totally agree with the person that it seems like the one constant for most BH here is that they always want to find an excuse for their wife cheating. Biggest mistake you could make.

Get to the attorney. It then becomes her job, with limited time, to fix herself. And you need her to take a polygraph if you ever want to know how many guys she has been doing during this separation.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

It's really simple Buddy. No mystery here, we have seen it here a thousand times.

Insecure wife (most likely due to abuse).
Needs constant personal approval and attention from husband to feel confident.
Needs HIGH level feelings of love to live in fantasy, a distraction from real relationship.
Over time, your marriage became "real". Fantasy diminished, kibble feed became smaller.
Wife feels like something is missing, begins to feel insecure, becomes unhappy.
Craves personal attention and begins to resent husband for lack of (using porn exacerbated this)
Unable to live hating herself so cheated for love fantasy, attention and approval.
Minimises, lies, re-writes history and denies affair as cannot handle feeling guilty.
Blames you for everything instead.
Unable to discuss feelings for fear of vulnerability and insecurity.
Unwilling to admit, discuss or even contemplate dealing with reality.
R is impossible for her. She is gone.
Don't blame yourself. You have grown and will continue to grow.
keep going to counselling.
File for D and don't look back.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

photon said:


> Hello,
> 
> Advice needed please.
> 
> ...


So, all the other stuff you're fine with? What will it take for you to leave?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Malaise said:


> So, all the other stuff you're fine with? What will it take for you to leave?


I bet she watches porn. Apparently it is the only deal breaker in their relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

photon,

you are right - she is holding back because you might leave her if she reveals the "whole truth". what happened to you also happened to me ( divorced/cheating friends, dating sites, alcohol. affairs, no sex, distant, etc.). 

after discovering some pieces of evidence, my WW held back the "whole truth" for years before admitting it. when i asked why she kept the whole truth for so long, she answered she was afraid i would leave her for good. 

and, the SHOCKING whole truth did cause me to shut her out of my life for good. 

based on your story - your wife wants to "control the situation". she is still enjoying what she is doing (very high probability she's screwing around). she is manipulating you by "blaming you" and your porn addiction. she's

still doing all those things because - SHE CAN...without any REAL and HARD consequences... and this will not stop unless you play hardball. you are essentiatlly just watching her dance and play around you.

BUT - BE READY for the "whole truth". don't ask for it until you are prepared. consider the possibilty that you might not be able to take it and leave her for good. it hurts even just thinking about it (you love her), but you 

have to deal with your problem decisively in order to end your agony as soon as possible.

in my case, i was in a state of disbelief for many months like a zombie. i was expecting something terrible, but not at the level of what she has really done. 

all of us here can give all the advice but - it is YOU who will decide what to do...watch her dance and play around you or STAND your ground and take control of your life.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

OP you need some tough love man. The fact that you are still even considering this chick is absolutely insane. She has no respect for you. Not one shred of it. She is using you for her own personal gain. Be a man and leave this woman for good. She is toxic and no good. It's time to go my friend. It is over.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

No kids and a cheating wife?

When's the divorce happening?

And seriously, man -- get the porn thing under control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Purple*Orchid (Aug 7, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> You had a porn problem for years that you kept hidden from her.
> 
> Depending on how left out and undesirable this made her feel, she may hate your guts by now.
> 
> ...


This is so point on!!!

Men and woman cheat for a multitude of reasons - She may have not been told about the porn issue, but she knew *something* was going on...

Sure cheating on ones spouse is a choice, however its usually a choice that it thought about for years, before they actually do it. And there are warning signs (usually) before. Most don't pay attention because they are to wrapped up in their own **** to notice.


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## Ralph Bellamy (Aug 8, 2016)

Purple*Orchid said:


> This is so point on!!!
> 
> Men and woman cheat for a multitude of reasons - She may have not been told about the porn issue, but she knew *something* was going on...
> 
> Sure cheating on ones spouse is a choice, however its usually a choice that it thought about for years, before they actually do it. And there are warning signs (usually) before. Most don't pay attention because they are to wrapped up in their own **** to notice.


I don't think that most cheaters think about anything for years. Self-gratification is their MO


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Ralph Bellamy said:


> I don't think that most cheaters think about anything for years. Self-gratification is their MO


You're probably right, most cheaters don't wait for years.

But some people, build up hurt and rejection, and being billed as "second best" by their spouse for years.

And even though they might communicate that they are hurting; they get ignored. Over and over and over again.

And then the emotional landslide and sex with someone other than their neglectful spouse.

The mistake is to not get a divorce first.


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## confusednAlone (Aug 15, 2016)

I agree with most on here. She is definately still having an affair. The dating site screams insecurities and the need for attention. I also during my discovery found my wife linked to a dating site while actively having ap for over 7 months. She drinks heavily and is emotional. Run while you can and don't turn back. Good luck

Who needs a signature?


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Hey @photon, 
Submitted those D papers yet?
No? 
Well get on with it. 
This is a one time offer you need to take.


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## zzzman99 (Oct 23, 2015)

Purple*Orchid said:


> This is so point on!!!
> 
> Men and woman cheat for a multitude of reasons - She may have not been told about the porn issue, but she knew *something* was going on...
> 
> Sure cheating on ones spouse is a choice, however its usually a choice that it thought about for years, before they actually do it. And there are warning signs (usually) before. Most don't pay attention because they are to wrapped up in their own **** to notice.


Ok, so porn usage = adultury. Thanks, got it.


Hey, I'm no fan of either but you are 100% wrong here. What a BS post.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I bet she watches porn. Apparently it is the only deal breaker in their relationship.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Normally porn use is viewed as watching *other* people having sex.

The *other* man fits that bill, hence she was both watching and performing porn. All in the first person.


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