# Plz help, my wife is about to break down due to depression and BPD



## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Hello to all, 
This is my first post. I went through some threads on this site & guessed that my wife also is having BPD (borderline personality disorder). I searched for BPD traits and found almost all matching with her habits. But still I was not satisfied and tried to search for possessive and hypersensitive behavior, and found her having all of the signs for these two as well. My God, I don't know what all things she is daily going through. I can feel she has gone through hell for the last 3-4 four years of marriage. She is depressed most of the times & keeps on pondering over lots of things every minute. 
I got to narrate long history before explaining the problem. I understand that I also have been a reason for her triggers (basically my boasting that i have done before marriage), but then i remember the same level of frustration in her due to other issues also. So I guess she is in pain majorly due to her BPD. I guess I should narrate the events that happened in last 6-7 years.
Ours was an arranged Indian marriage. We got engaged 7 years back. At first sight and meeting i felt something special about her and i felt she is the best girl i could have. 3 years later we got married. I was on job away from her and we could only talk over phone. That is the time problems creeped in our relation silently. 
I always have been a book worm and being in my studies. Always separated from family members, staying in a separate room and studying. I guess I couldn't develop well defined personality and natural behavioral habits. I have been brought up in a very strict family environment, a violent dictator kind of father, reclusive kind of life. Then i joined defense forces at an age of 18 years, again a non family life. Although I had been much sensitive fellow, but subsequent years possibly changed my nature. What i learnt was only how to survive in any type of environment and solve my problems, if not solve at least struggle and try harder.
She on the other hand saw a very nice family. Got a very loving & protecting father, a very good family environment I can just dream of (Unluckily her father died 1 year before our marriage, leaving her in a deep trauma).
I never had any girlfriend and hardly i can count the girls i talked with (but she can't tolerate it & gets deeply disturbed if I even happened to talk to anyone). She on the other hand have had few relationships (3-4), all got broken up somehow. Then we met and our relationship started. Everything seem to be happening all right till we got married after 3 years of waiting and one more year passed after marriage.
Then something started that I never imagined, side effects of all the things I shared, started popping out. I'll explain how the problems started developing.
1.	I had boasted to her about girls and my relationship with them, which never existed (a big mistake i made in order to get frank and try to make a creamy image). Now you can imagine what a hypersensitive and highly possessive girl would think about a good looking guy, who was going to be her husband. As i kept boasting, she started testing me for my honesty level and faithfulness. She gave my number to her female friends and asked them to call me and test me out. All of them failed, but still she developed a bad image of mine.
2.	Before meeting her I had asked a girl in my town for marriage, since my parents were searching girls for me and she was known to me. She had studied in my school, so I just asked her about the idea of getting married. My bad luck that i did this. one more nail in coffin. She developed a thought that she might have been special for me. But the fact is that- had i seen other girls also from my school, I would have asked them as well (to be on a safer side and marry a girl whom I know).
3.	I started boasting that I had a girlfriend in a city and used to meet her on my journey to home & back. Told her about getting somewhat physical with her. What a bad boasting to an innocent & sensitive girl.
4.	A final & biggest nail. Just few months before marriage there was this foreigner girl came to our office with a team for some assignment. Their trip was for 2-3 months. I was doing liaison job with them from my office side. Don't know why that girl started approaching me and after 2 months she started proposing me. Initially I ignored her but then she started getting more serious. I had told my wife about her, that this girl is after me.After my repeated rejection, one fine day we had an argument and I insulted her like hell. She turned into a devil and my horrible days started since she began threatening me (for revenge I guess). She told that she will file a case against me for flirting with her and then trying to molest her. I was in hell. Going to get married and going to get jailed. I started convincing her to forget it. She went back to her country, but the situation was same. So I wrote some very nice flattering E-mails filled with emotional words to her to calm her down. At last she let it go & i was breathing back. I didn't tell this to my wife becoz in meantime she opened out that she had tested me since she was suspecting me (I understood that she can't ever trust me). I thought that she will never ever trust me if i tell her about what i wrote to that girl (a big mistakes).
Now it was my marriage day. Everything went fine for almost one year. But the unrest was developing inside her slowly due to my habits (I guess). She would complain that I was not giving her time & was not giving her expected love.
One day she asked my e-mail & password and opened it. Unluckily she read all the e-mails that I had sent to that foreigner girl. That was day our life started running on edge. This was the starting of recall of each smallest objectionable move I ever made.
Since then she has been continuously crying & depressed. Later when I felt the consequences of my boasting and her confusion, I tried to explain her the real facts and confessed for my boasting. But it was too late. She hardly believes me and confusion and doubt keeps her mind occupied. Such a beautiful and nice girl going through such a trauma of her life. Today she has finished the psychological tests for determining thinking pattern and the doctor told me that she has huge Depression but not BPD. Her medicines are starting from tonight and doctor has assured me some hope after 3 weeks. 
I should now list out the reasons for possible development of BPD inside her.
1.	She has intense emotions and mood swinging.I guess this BPD is heredity based, her mother also thinks alot and has developed migraines now. 
2.	The childhood traumas- She had severe Asthma as a child & used to face severe frequent attacks, making her sit whole night and trying to breathe. Next morning if she is lucky she would get an injection (I guess a heavy steroid dose) from the local village doctor.
3.	She has been having heavy jealousy habits since childhood. If her mother picks some other baby, she would pinch & hit that baby so hard that he cries and her mother has to leave that baby. If it fails, she would go & eat some fertilizer or drink some paint out of her grief. Now this has turned onto me. Her mind can't tolerate if I am away for even a minute or studying or being with a fiend. I can't understand how she will handle this, because it is going to consistently trigger her.
4.	She had been criticized by her relatives in childhood for having asthma. Her sister used to insult her publicly for studies, and still she can't forget these. She has become very sensitive to criticism and advices.
5.	Possessiveness- She is highly possessive in nature. This has made her suspecting me everytime. Checking my call records, message activities, e-mails, accounting my every minute spent outside is her daily activity.Every minute her mind keeps calculating about my activities. On every incident (which is not acceptable to her), she will note my reaction and then her mind will start guessing the reasons. It will guess some reasons and will feed her the most hurting fact related to the incident. I know women think from emotional aspect and tend to do this, but it is too much severe in her case.
6.	Abandonment fear- Her mind can't tolerate any third person/thing between us. Let it be my friends, my studies or our newly born baby. I read that BPDers shouldn't have kids, but it was too late for me to know. Now my any act towards the baby triggers her fear. Can't help it.
7.	Most of the times she remains depressed and keeps on thinking. Even sometimes it starts since early morning. I am not a good jolly and comedian kind of fellow. And often I hurt her sentiments (in order to try to crack a joke). Then again my convincing effort starts, but in vain. It triggers her more and then she starts crying like always, so now I have started keeping mum. It works sometimes. 
She has got no wish to live and easily gets suicidal thoughts on getting upset. Her inner energy and self esteem and self confidence has gone too much down. Doctor (a psychologist) has prescribed medicines for deep depression after a 3 day test. It has broken my hopes since i feel it is not just depression alone. I love her more than life and shiver of thought of her being alone. SOMEBODY PLZ TRY TO HELP AND ADVICE. I CAN'T EVEN THINK OF LEAVING HER. I GOT TO SORT IT OUT... THANKS in advance.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I do not see signs of BPD in all that you wrote. Yes, she is depressed. She does not trust you, and she has good reason to feel the way she does. This is not the kind of "fear of abandonment" that comes with BPD. She might have a pathological jealousy and low self-esteem, which would be helped if she will see a counselor. Mostly what I see are signs of an anxiety disorder and depression

I think you also have low self-esteem and other issues, so I would also encourage you to seek a counselor, too.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks Kathy. That gives a relief and hope. But I don't understand her behavior that has been on since childhood. That extremely jealous behavior, self hurting, instantly intense mood swings are out of my understanding. Sometimes she is extremely happy and even a trivial thought or talk will disturb her deeply and then a long downfall of her mood and a big emotional disturbance. At that time she almost looses sense of what is right & what is incorrect. I guess it is the loss of sense of reality. May be I am misjudging, becoz the Psychologist told me that these all symptoms are always hard to segregate and get mixed with each other. Still I pray it is nowhere close to BPD.


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

Based on what you've written, my advice would be: Do your best to stay relaxed and calm. You sound very anxious to have everything solved or put in some kind of order. That's understandable, but being very sensitive to her reactions to you will naturally make her more sensitive and reactive as well. Try to communicate confidence and calmness, and that you are there for her (not to try to solve her problems, but rather to be a good listener if she needs it), and that will probably make her feel more confident in response.

Also I would say in general, as her husband, it probably isn't a good idea to try to diagnose any psychological disorder that she may have. It isn't a bad idea for you to suggest that you _both_ see a counselor together. But if you are the one pushing her to see a psychiatrist, that could lead to more problems and sensitivity on her part. If you think about it, it's a natural reaction: Someone trying to figure out what's "wrong" with you is going to make you feel insecure and isolated. I know you have the best intentions in doing it; and if she chooses to see someone, that is wonderful, but it should be her decision. 

So my advice to start with would be, try to look and see what you might be doing unintentionally that is maybe making her natural inclinations more intense, and work on altering the way _you_ approach the situation. And see if it helps.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

kriss332 said:


> Thanks Kathy. That gives a relief and hope. But I don't understand her behavior that has been on since childhood. That extremely jealous behavior, self hurting, instantly intense mood swings are out of my understanding. Sometimes she is extremely happy and even a trivial thought or talk will disturb her deeply and then a long downfall of her mood and a big emotional disturbance. At that time she almost looses sense of what is right & what is incorrect. I guess it is the loss of sense of reality. May be I am misjudging, becoz the Psychologist told me that these all symptoms are always hard to segregate and get mixed with each other. Still I pray it is nowhere close to BPD.


You didn't mention self-hurting above, or I missed it. While that can be a hallmark of BPD, it can also be for other reasons. For instance, many teens here in the U.S. cut themselves as an attention-seeking behavior but later stop. It's never healthy, but for some, the "shock value" makes them feel like they can have an effect on other people. It can also be a sign of suicidal ideation that can go along with certain mood disorders. 

If you meant things like "drinking paint" because of jealousy as self-hurting, this is a little different. Yes, it is self-hurting, but not quite for the same reason. Again, there may be anxiety, there could be a pathological jealousy, and maybe even a histrionic personality, but you're not the right person to diagnose her. Doing this could prove even more harmful to your relationship.

You do not mention your ages, but if your wife is 25 or younger, her brain is still developing. This means she may experience irrational thoughts and fail to look at the big picture even if she's highly intelligent. 

I come back to the same conclusion: Counseling!


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I read the first 2 sentences and stopped. 

She needs help. Trained, professional help. We can't help her. Only you can. I suggest you do so. Now. Good luck. I hope it turns out well.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Kriss, welcome to the TAM forum. I'm sorry to hear that you and your W have been having such painful difficulties throughout nearly all of your marriage.


kriss332 said:


> Today she has finished the psychological tests for determining thinking pattern and the doctor told me that she has huge Depression but not BPD.


Kriss, therapists generally are loath to tell a BPDer -- much less her H -- the name of her disorder (so as to protect the BPDer). There are several reasons for this, which I explain at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909. 

Hence, if you still suspect your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), I suggest you see YOUR OWN psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid second opinion on what it is you and your child are dealing with. It is important to see a psychologist who has not seen or treated your W. In that way, you will be seeing a professional who is ethically bound to protect YOUR interests, not hers.


> She has intense emotions and mood swinging.


Perhaps so, but that is not what you are describing. Instead, you seem to be describing a woman who is primarily depressed. You say, _"Most of the times she remains depressed."_ While it is common for many BPDers to be depressed, they also exhibit strong emotional instability, which usually is most obvious in their flipping -- in only a few seconds -- between "loving you" and "devaluing you." 

Have you see a strong pattern of such instability? And has it been persistent over the last 6 years of your 7-year marriage? I ask because the primary hallmark of BPD is emotional instability. This means that, if you are not seeing a very unstable woman, you are not seeing a strong pattern of BPD traits. It therefore would be helpful if you would explain what you mean by your statement that she has _"instantly intense mood swings."
_
I caution that, if you are convinced you are seeing strong emotional instability, the "mood swings" could be the result of bipolar disorder instead of BPD. Those mood changes caused by bipolar, however, usually are very different from those caused by BPD. If you are interested, I describe those differences in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/anxiety-depression-relationships/59344-confused.html#post1175425.


> The childhood traumas- She had severe Asthma as a child & used to face severe frequent attacks.


Kriss, BPD is believed to be caused by heredity together with childhood abuse or abandonment that interferes with the child's emotional development, thus freezing it at about age four. Significantly, the childhood traumas that are believed to be associated with BPD are those caused by uncaring, abandoning, or emotionally unavailable parents. Although anything is possible, I've never heard of BPD being caused by childhood asthma or any other such illnesses.

That said, it is still unclear whether a childhood trauma is even necessary for BPD to occur. It may be that, when the genetic predisposition is strong enough, the child can be so over-sensitive that she will develop BPD even in the absence of abuse. This possibility seems supported by a recent large scale study showing that 30% of BPDers do not recall experiencing any abuse or abandonment in childhood. This finding suggests that (a) genetics alone may be a sufficient cause or (b) those BPDers are simply suppressing their memories of childhood abuse.


> Doctor (a psychologist) has prescribed medicines for deep depression after a 3 day test.


A medical doctor who also is a psychologist is called a "psychiatrist." Do you mean to say, then, that your W was evaluated and treated by a psychiatrist? Did he see her just the one time?


> But I don't understand her behavior ....that self hurting


Kriss, I agree with Kathy that self harming, such as cutting and head banging, is strongly associated with BPD, not with depression. I therefore join Kathy in asking you to please give examples of the self harming she has done. Also, has she done this recently or was it done only in childhood?


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Asthma and insults from her sister do not sound consistent with the kind of abuse that causes BPD.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks alot for all of your attention and advices. It is time zone diffrence causing me respond lately. I'll just update it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

I'll fill the required info.
1. I am 32 & she is 27, we got engaged in mid 2006 & married in end 2008.
2. Mood swings- she is hyper sensitive. Her mood swings are not unreasonable. It happens when she comes across something that hurts her. Or if some doubt comes up in her mind & it is not satisfactorily answered, then her mind starts guessing for possible bad answers & will pick one. This all heppens initially. Subsequently on future incidents those reasons start getting firm. For example- while watching a video song, if she doubts that i looked at the girl or on her short clothes, the turmoil will start in her mind and her mind will warn her of my possible unfaithful character. Then a series of possibility guessing will start in her mind & in turn he will give her the worst scenario. This all happens within few minutes.
2. Emotional instability- I am not clear on this part, everything seems to be related to mood swings. Though her emotions remain unstable. I am turned from good to bad within few minutes in her brain & i can't at all help it.
3. Self hurting- She has tried to do it majorly twice. Once she had few sleeping pills, next time 10 medicine tablets. This happens after two combinations- deep disturbances given to her by her brain & I trying to ignore her emotional outburst. Sometimes she scratches herself with her nails, but not to injure her ( I guess out of frustration). But the thought of quitting life is almost permanent. She also revealed in test that she would have committed suicide if she got a chance.
4. Childhood abuse- AFAIK she has not gone through this. Nor does she remember any such incidents. Her family was an ideal one and her father was very much loving, caring & protecting towards her. Her intense jealousy may be misinterpreted by me as the fear of abandonment. But she is always anxious that i may cheat on her.
5. Evaluation- She was ready to go to doctor and follow it. We had visited total 3 doctors before this. Two were Psychiatrist and one was Psychologist. But nothing helped. This time I came to know about a 'Center for Psychological Medicines and Personality Disorders'. I met the director & she conducted tests in 3 sittings. 1st one was scenario prediction by looking at some sketches, Remaining three were giving true/false to some questions, filling in the blanks for some conditional questions, objective questions for checking emotional level. Based on its result she told me in alone that it is Depression. But I am guessing that when she finds improvement with medicines she will add treatment for some more things. May be some therapy for Jealousy and possessiveness would be added. Still I don't have any clues. Moreover I couldn't find a better hospital for visiting as of now. I guess I should start searching out if there are no significant improvements after assured period of 3-6 weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Kriss, thanks for providing the additional detail. Please keep in mind that, although we can point you to resources describing typical traits of depression and BPD, we cannot evaluate your W. For one thing, we have never met her. For another, we are not psychologists. Based on my 15 years of experience with my BPDer exW, I found the following traits to be typical and common:


1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
3. Controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
4. Irrational jealousy and lack of trust;
5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you,;
6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about the next day;
7. Low self esteem;
8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
9. Fear of abandonment or being alone;
10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) -- for the first six months -- that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
 Kriss, if most of those traits sound very familiar, I again suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. As I mentioned earlier, when BPD is a realistic possibility, your best chance of obtaining a candid opinion is to see a psych who is NOT seeing or treating your W. It is common for therapists to withhold the name of this disorder from the high-functioning BPDers and their spouses.

I also suggest that, while you are waiting for an appointment, you read about BPD traits so you will know how to spot the red flags. Although you will not be able to make a diagnosis (only professionals can do that), spotting the warning signs is not difficult. There is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and threats of self harm. 

An easy place to start reading is my brief overview of BPD traits in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Kriss.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Hello sir, i had gone through maybe's thread. And now i feel she is unlikely to possess BPD. May be it is because she doesn't have that much horrible symptoms. I'll try to brief about her behaviour relating to traits.
1. Mirroring- There wasn't any mirroring. In fact she never felt I was the best man made for her. 
2. There wasn't any infatuation period. She hardly remembers my good things usually. In fact only few times are there when she felt me as a best guy. This is what she says today, but in the past story might have been something else. She used to feel alot for me.
3. She can't remember if i did anything for her. Because most of the times she is depressed. But when i asked her with grief in my eyes, she started remembering the things i did, & i felt quite good.
4. All good or Bad- From her answers i felt that this happens only in my case (when she gets hurt on remembering the hurting past). Others are permanently good or bad levelwise. 
5. Criticism/(correcting her) is not tolerable even if it is sugar coated. She doesn't fire, but she takes it on heart & cries.
6. She never followed my likings or hobbies. It wasn't necessary that she would mimic what i liked doing.
7. No savior kind of feeling for me.
8. Feels the previously good incidents as good only. Like- if we had spent some beautiful time, she remembers it the same way.
9. She has anger & frustration due to some bad experiences. She still thinks & is grieved due to childhood incidents. Example- Her father didn't teach her like her sister & brother. She wasn't sent to english medium school since childhood, thus feels that she couldn't go for higher studies. Her sister's publicly insulting comments for her studies, other's disrespectful comments for her childhood asthma & failure in studies/exams, not being a successful person are all that still hurts her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> Now i feel she is unlikely to possess BPD.


Kriss, I'm very pleased to hear that the BPD traits do not sound familiar to you! I would not wish that disorder -- or strong occurrences of the traits -- on my worst enemy. I'm also pleased to hear that you are favorably impressed with the psychologist treating her.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Contd....
10. Since childhood she didn't want to marry. She just wanted to adopt a child for the rest of her life. But couldn't resist much from marriage. She didn't want to have child (in giving birth). Although i didn't have any interest in a baby, I just wanted her to have a baby to keep her emotions somewhat busy. Initially ahe also wanted to get pregnant & was quite excited during pregnancy. But soon after child birth she started getting irritated of it. Now instead of becoming an emotional diversion it has become a burden. & all the blame of baby birth has come on me. She is frightened of the baby coming between our emotions. She is too anxious of my attention getting diverted to baby. How do i explain her that i didn't want the baby, it was supposed to be for her. 
11. The most problematic habit- She always seeks anwers for the questions (many times about my excuses & lies) that disturb her. Her mind already has some possibly suspected answers. If i am not able to provide any reasonably satisfying answer with proof, her mind will pick up an answer which becomes a trigger for another disturbance & question. Then she can't understand me. She starts breaking down. & this lasts for few tens of minutes to few hours. Her mind always does this self assumption of self hurting reasons/answers. This is the point most of the times i loose my temper. And now I am breaking down & loosing hope. 
I am getting confused if it is BPD or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't understand one thing. I never have a clue what is going to hurt out of my actions/talks. Last night I said something to her so that she could tell me her dicision & feel that I gave her the importance to decide something about us. But she compared it with my previous actions & took it otherwise. She felt that I didn't bother about her health & i am intersted in something else. She is continually upset & calculating things against her for last 12 hours.
I feel like i am standing on a cliff which has nothing on either sides, I am going to anyways fall down whether I step ahead or back. Whatever I say is going to hurt her anyways, because her mind will calculate it against her only & then start feeding her all sorts of negative thoughts. I guess I have a problem of not being able to correctly express myself. I don't think much before speaking out. But if i start pondering so much before talking, we are not going to have any conversation whole day. Why her mind can't take anything lightly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

kriss332 said:


> I don't understand one thing. I never have a clue what is going to hurt out of my actions/talks. Last night I said something to her so that she could tell me her dicision & feel that I gave her the importance to decide something about us. But she compared it with my previous actions & took it otherwise. She felt that I didn't bother about her health & i am intersted in something else. She is continually upset & calculating things against her for last 12 hours.
> I feel like i am standing on a cliff which has nothing on either sides, I am going to anyways fall down whether I step ahead or back. Whatever I say is going to hurt her anyways, because her mind will calculate it against her only & then start feeding her all sorts of negative thoughts. I guess I have a problem of not being able to correctly express myself. I don't think much before speaking out. But if i start pondering so much before talking, we are not going to have any conversation whole day. Why her mind can't take anything lightly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is why she needs counseling, and so do you. You cannot control or change the way she thinks. She probably cannot learn to without help. I'm comforted that she is seeing someone. I would encourage you to seek a CoDA or Al-Anon group in your area. Both have many international locations and are free. This group can help you not be so affected by the things she is doing.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> I am getting confused if it is BPD or not.


Kriss, again, I note that nobody on this forum can diagnose your W. What I can tell you, however, is that none of the details you've added in your last several posts indicates she has a strong pattern of BPD traits. As you yourself have observed, many of the BPD traits are missing.


> Based on its result she told me in alone that it is Depression. But I am guessing that when she finds improvement with medicines she will add treatment for some more things. May be some therapy for Jealousy and possessiveness would be added.


I agree with you that the issues you describe seem to go beyond simple depression. And I agree that, after the medicine reduces her depression, her psychologist likely will be able to work at that point on identifying her other issues. I don't know what those issues are. 

I nonetheless suggest that, while you are waiting for your next appointment with a psychologist, you read about AvPD traits (i.e., Avoidant Personality Disorder traits) to see if they sound very familiar. DSM-IV defines AvPD in general to be a widespread pattern of inhibition around people, feeling inadequate and being very sensitive to being evaluated negatively, since early adulthood and occurring in a range of situations. In addition, four of seven specific criteria should be met, which are: 

Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection
Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
Shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed
Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations
Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy
Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others
Is unusually reluctant to take personal risk or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing.


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

Your wife did not want to get married, but was forced into it essentially.

You had a child together, but you didn't want a baby for yourself. You had hoped it would occupy her and make her happier.

Those two facts alone could be enough to explain her behavior. She is living a life she didn't freely choose. Neither did you. 

It may not be you she is dissatisfied with, but the fact she had little control over the situation she's now in. She may understandably be very bitter and angry about it. She may be looking for reasons to find fault in you personally, or find something that would seem acceptable to express her unhappiness about. Pure speculation though. I don't have a clue what arranged marriages are like, and can only guess based on what you've written what she might be thinking. To me it doesn't add up to mental illness though. It sounds like justifiable unhappiness. I don't know what to advise except, try to be a friend to her first. I'd imagine she'd love the opportunity to express herself honestly to someone without fear of repercussions.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thank you sir, i went through all 7 traits of AvPD. I asked my wife about every situation & she confirmed all of them. In fact she is very sensitive for lacking anywhere. If she feels she won't be leading amongst others, she won't participate at all. Let it be social stuff or studies. 
Mr. Uptown, could you plz provide me some links on AvPD. I want to be completely sure before reaching any conclusion. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Anabel said:


> Your wife did not want to get married, but was forced into it essentially.
> 
> You had a child together, but you didn't want a baby for yourself. You had hoped it would occupy her and make her happier.
> 
> ...


Thank you Anabel. I spoke to my wife on the basis of your advice. And yes, you were right. Now what next to do.
And as far as AvPD is concerned, i'll give an example. When she was in 1st semester of her Diploma, she studied like hell. But in spite of hard work she couldn't lead ahead of all. So she stopped this hard work. Second reason for this was the death of her father when 2nd semester started. Her dad was closest to her & he was the happiest to see the result of her hard work. Now he wasn't there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> Mr. Uptown, could you plz provide me some links on AvPD. I want to be completely sure before reaching any conclusion.


Kriss, the only way to be "completely sure" is to obtain a professional opinion from a psychologist or psychiatrist. Only a professional can determine if your W's AvPD traits are so strong and persisitent as to constitute having full-blown AvPD. 

Also, please keep in mind that many people having a PD also have a second PD as well. PDs are not individual diseases. Indeed, they are not diseases at all. Instead, they are simply groups of dysfunctional behaviors that therapists commonly see occurring together, thereby forming a recognizable pattern of behavior. I also caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhitibits all of the PD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is emotionally healthy. This is why AvPD and the other PDs are called "spectrum disorders," i.e., everyone exhibits such traits to some degree.

That said, it is not difficult to identify the red flags or warning signs (i.e., strong occurrences of the traits) when you take time to learn what behaviors to look for. There is a world of difference between making a diagnosis (i.e., determining whether someone "has a disorder") and simply spotting the red flags. As to links on the subject of AvPD, I suggest the following:


Avoidant Personality Disorder - Psych Central,
Out of the FOG - Avoidant Personality Disorder
Avoidant personality disorder - children, causes, DSM, functioning, therapy, adults, withdrawal, people
Avoidant Personality Disorder Forum - Psych forums [Forum].


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thank you sir, I'll just go through these. 
I wonder what kind of struggles are created for humans on this earth. May god bless all. I can imagine about people & their partners going through the struggle to come out of these.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

kriss332 said:


> Thank you Anabel. I spoke to my wife on the basis of your advice. And yes, you were right. Now what next to do.
> And as far as AvPD is concerned, i'll give an example. When she was in 1st semester of her Diploma, she studied like hell. But in spite of hard work she couldn't lead ahead of all. So she stopped this hard work. Second reason for this was the death of her father when 2nd semester started. Her dad was closest to her & he was the happiest to see the result of her hard work. Now he wasn't there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you feel comfortable about it, would you give some more information about your culture or customs regarding marriage, divorce, and separation? Are divorce and separation even considerations? I'm not suggesting you should be divorcing, but I'd just like a better picture of what options you and your wife have. This would be very helpful in making an educated guess as to how she might be feeling and how you might best help her and each other.

My instinct in your position would probably be to ask her straight (in a calm and loving way): If she had her choice of where she'd be and what she'd be doing now, what would it be? Then I'd try to give her every freedom in the world to achieve those things. You can't do it for her, but you of course shouldn't hinder any lifelong goals of hers. If she replies that she wouldn't want to be married if she had her choice, and she says this sincerely, not as a way of getting under your skin; then I would begin thinking seriously about divorce. However, all of this depends on the beliefs and restrictions of your culture, so without that information, I don't know what suggestions would be most appropriate.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Marriage & seperation in our culture is considered as the most important situation in our religion. Marriage is something which has got the involvement of whole family. It is an occasion involving all near & far relatives. The divorce over here is like a stigma, less for the male but much more for the female. Seperation/divorce is thought about in the worst scenario, not on the basis of personnel issues and is highly stressed to be avoided. This is a view as per social norms. But if I surely feel that she will be happy after seperation/divorce, I will let her go for her happiness. Even after seperation I can't stop caring for her. But we both will be broken completely after seperating from me. 
Moreover life of an alone lady is not a bed of roses here. It is full of problems.
As far as her goals are concerned, she wanted to reach a quite high place but ( i guess) due to depression she never had that much inner energy to work out for it. She repeatedly requests me to let her go (not arguingly but with love) to any place & let her live alone. She says she wants to live totally alone for some time. sometimes she says she wants to live alone in darkness. My love for her will never allow her to do any such silly things.
Regarding baby's concerns, she is basically worried that I could develop some affection for baby, & it triggers her possible fear of abandonment (or i guess possessiveness). I understand it & still try to meet up the requirements.
I am waiting to see the treatment's effect, as doctor told that antidepression medicine will show some effect on completion of 3 weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

I don't get this at all.

Why has nobody addressed all the mean things he has done to his wife?

He is trying to convince her that she has some psychological disorder.

OP, the problem seems to be you.

Are you in counseling to find out whey you can't stop lying and being mean to your wife?

It seems to me that her so called "problems" would disappear if she moved away from you.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Tigger, you are correct, it had also been the reason of her frustration, & i regret it. but also pay attention to- there is always some small issue that triggers her fear. Even when my previous things are not in her mind, her mind gets triggered by some other things. Like what happened just now & i got fired on her that what is this all happening. I had just told her about the structure of baby pillow, that it is not correctly designed & this kind of design could create problem in anyone's neck, her anxieties got triggered that i am being careful to baby. Though i don't pay any attention to baby, & since her birth i have not even taken baby in my hands like a father. Still she is worried about me developing care for baby, thus losing attention for her. I am telling her that she needs not worry about my affection for herself. Still. What is this happening. 
In childhood her mother was the reason of her worries (she couldn't see her mother taking any other baby or paying attention to anyone else), and now it is me. She couldn't tolerate that i ever happen to even talk to any girl (anyways i don't intend to but even if accidentally i happen to talk, it triggers her ). And now her mind is breaking her due to a petty baby. What to do. How do I convince her that she is the only one for me, no one else, not even our child.
I am lost.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

I guess i am not the source of all the problems to her. It will be all the same, if she is intimate to anyone else also. Maybe the problems due to past won't be there, but then there would be some other things. If she will be free from her problems when i leave i would go away from her life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

kriss332 said:


> I guess i am not the source of all the problems to her. It will be all the same, if she is intimate to anyone else also. Maybe the problems due to past won't be there, but then there would be some other things. If she will be free from her problems when i leave i would go away from her life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or you could just get counseling for yourself and change your ways.

That would be the brave and honorable thing to do.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Ya surely I would. The next visit we go to Doctor, I am going to ask about how to behave(rather than raising her pains) and be of any good use to my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

How old is your baby? I ask because hormonal mood swings in the months after a baby is born are intense. 

I have to say, it does sound like your wife is trapped in the marriage in some respects because of the pressures of custom. Considering that divorced women are the ones primarily stigmatized, not the men; a fear of abandonment in any woman under those circumstances would be natural. Her possessiveness does seem extreme from the way you describe it. However, I don't see that she is mentally ill. It is deeply disturbing to think of a person being treated with medications when there is nothing actually wrong with them. I hope that it was her decision to seek this treatment. 

You say she many times requested to live alone. Does she mean with or without her child? Is there any way feasible you could make this happen? I don't think it's a silly request. If she's suicidal or deeply depressed, then obviously caring for a child alone would be far too demanding. But if help could be hired or she could get a part time job or if there was some other way to work it out, I think you should consider it. 

Your situation is very complex. Wish I had more of a clear picture what was happening, but all I can do is guess based on what information you share and be one more person to bounce ideas off of. Good luck.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Our baby is of 20 days today. And as you told about high hormonal mood swings, gives me some relief. May be these mood swings calm down. Because she was quite happy just before delivery, but the very next day she started having these mood swings. The psychologist detected high depression (based on tests of 3 sittings). And i not at all call her mentally ill. No way. It is just something not in order. May be it is something more than depression. She also has some feel of it. I just want to help her out.
As job concerns, she had a job but we had to totally separate for that. So we left that. I have been pondering over how to keep her busy (let it be some courses or any part time job kind). But again it is a place where the language is totally different from our mother toungue & city is also quite far. Still she did an designing course AUTOCAD, & that kept her quite busy & diverted. I am trying to figure out how to make out something. She can live seperated from me on a job & she has tried also for it. May be her mother could stay with her (as it was in previous job) for baby. but one thing I forgot to mention, she didn't want to breastfeed the baby. I was shocked to hear this, as she had never signalled about it before. I forced her to feed baby, she complains much about that. But I wanted her to feed for her healthwise safety & for the responsibility sake. But she feels that I care for baby more than for her feelings. How does it make sense at all ?
Previous job also couldn't help much. She was consistently depressed over there also. I guess her hormones need to settle & her depression needs to get treated first. So am waiting for antidepression medicine to show effect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> Our baby is of 20 days today. And as you told about high hormonal mood swings, gives me some relief. May be these mood swings calm down.


Kriss, I agree with you and Anabel that hormone changes is an issue you should discuss with her doctor. It might explain her depression during the past month (i.e., postpartum depression) and may even explain her depression during the prior 9 months. 

Yet, I don't see how it would explain your observation that _"she has gone through hell for the last 3-4 four years of marriage." _You seem to be saying that the depression started right after the wedding nearly four years ago -- not after the pregnancy or birth.


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

kriss332 said:


> Our baby is of 20 days today. And as you told about high hormonal mood swings, gives me some relief. May be these mood swings calm down. Because she was quite happy just before delivery, but the very next day she started having these mood swings. The psychologist detected high depression (based on tests of 3 sittings). And i not at all call her mentally ill. No way. It is just something not in order. May be it is something more than depression. She also has some feel of it. I just want to help her out.
> As job concerns, she had a job but we had to totally separate for that. So we left that. I have been pondering over how to keep her busy (let it be some courses or any part time job kind). But again it is a place where the language is totally different from our mother toungue & city is also quite far. Still she did an designing course AUTOCAD, & that kept her quite busy & diverted. I am trying to figure out how to make out something. She can live seperated from me on a job & she has tried also for it. May be her mother could stay with her (as it was in previous job) for baby. but one thing I forgot to mention, she didn't want to breastfeed the baby. I was shocked to hear this, as she had never signalled about it before. I forced her to feed baby, she complains much about that. But I wanted her to feed for her healthwise safety & for the responsibility sake. But she feels that I care for baby more than for her feelings. How does it make sense at all ?
> Previous job also couldn't help much. She was consistently depressed over there also. I guess her hormones need to settle & her depression needs to get treated first. So am waiting for antidepression medicine to show effect.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only 20 days old? Then hormones could definitely be playing a part. Periods of sadness and mood swings are very common for new moms and called "the baby blues" in English. It can become more severe (the clinical term is Postpartum Depression)--this is treatable and also not uncommon. For first-time mothers especially, it is extremely helpful to have other experienced women around to help her with the daily care of the baby (people who she feels comfortable with) for the first weeks after the birth. If your wife has a good relationship with her mother, that would be perfect. 

I think that forcing her to breastfeed is _not_ good. It is her body. There are other options. Yes breastfeeding is considered the most healthy, but _not_ if the mother feels uncomfortable with it. Your wife feeling you care more for the baby than her makes more sense now. The first month of breastfeeding is hellish for many women, it really is. I will spare you the gory details. I'm not a doctor, but unless there's some specific medical necessity, I'd say that it's better for your wife _and_ the baby that she make the decision about whether or not to breastfeed.

Also, it would be preferable if your wife were to decide what job, or what courses in school, she pursues, if any. It will give her more control over her life and more confidence. This will benefit your whole family.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Yet, I don't see how it would explain your observation that _"she has gone through hell for the last 3-4 four years of marriage." _You seem to be saying that the depression started right after the wedding nearly four years ago -- not after the pregnancy or birth.


She used to be very sad on on/off basis right after 1 year of our marriage. The same had been continued since then but the intensity had gone a bit down in last year. But again she has gone depressed after baby delivery, that also too much.
Now i get these baby blues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Hello friends, plz help me out on one thing.
Help me express my love to her. I guess these all problems will get diluted if she could feel hw much i love her. May be her love tank has gone empty & her subconscious mind has started now assuming that my attention towards herself has gone down due to baby. Can anyone suggest me some ways?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

kriss332 said:


> Hello friends, plz help me out on one thing.
> Help me express my love to her. I guess these all problems will get diluted if she could feel hw much i love her. May be her love tank has gone empty & her subconscious mind has started now assuming that my attention towards herself has gone down due to baby. Can anyone suggest me some ways?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Support her decisions as the mother. Help her in whatever ways she asks (with errands, etc.) that you are able to, so that she can have more time to sleep. Sleep deprivation increases stress exponentially. _Tell her she is doing a wonderful job._ Tell her you are proud of her. Tell her she is beautiful. Don't do this to the point it sounds fake, but just be appreciative and notice the effort she puts in. Above all, listen to her, take her concerns seriously, and be respectful of her choices.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks Anbel. I have been finding some improvement in her depression. It was after 1 week of medication. I can see her face coming out of dullness & anxiety. Though it is not significant but i am hopeful.
I am still anxious about her possible PPD(post partum depression). She doesn't like the baby & it is countinuously like a burden on her. I planned the baby in order to partly shift her intense emotions & possessiveness from me, so that she could have some happiness. But it all is seeming to be useless now. I guess it wasn't obvious to doctor & she wasn't given medicine for it (if PPD requires different medication than depression). If the same medicines could help out PPD as well, it is good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

kriss332 said:


> I am still anxious about her possible PPD(post partum depression). She doesn't like the baby & it is countinuously like a burden on her. I planned the baby in order to partly shift her intense emotions & possessiveness from me, so that she could have some happiness.


If your wife is speaking to her doctor about this, he/she should be able to determine whether or not it's Postpartum Depression. 

Without a doubt, doing things like forcing her to breastfeed will disrupt the bonding between the mother and child also. 

You need to stop manipulating your wife.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Ya i have stopped forcing anything onto her & subsequently she has started sharing more thoughts with me. From her contemporary thoughts it seems to me like she didn't ever want to have a baby. But i am confused. Previously she never expressed such a deep reluctance. She doesn't hate babies i guess. Ya she used to sometimes tell me that she doesn't want babies but sometimes she would talk about babies. During pragnancy she was almost happy with me & i was hopeful. She would often talk about her small nephew & niece & their activities and it used to seem that she enjoyed their acts. She likes them & enjoys their company. I don't understand this. If she doesn't develop any affection for baby then my whole idea of planning a baby is futile. Anyways we are visiting the doctor again this evening. Will try to convey these to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

As you know, a newborn requires attention all day and night. So it's quite different from her feelings towards nieces and nephews. 

It wasn't a good plan to have a child if neither of you truly wanted one. But what's done is done. You may find it is a blessing in disguise one day.

It's normal to have moments of feeling overwhelmed by the responsibility. Give it time. Don't criticize; stay calm and express your confidence in her. She's likely to become more and more bonded to her baby as she gains a feeling of competence as a mother. But she can only do that if you allow her to make the decisions.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks alot Anabel. As i started all that, she has been losing her frustration gradually. From 'the state of frustration' her situation has come down to anxiety. And moreover, as i handover the decision part to her, she seems to be accepting my mistakes.
Yesterday we visited the doctor & she has raised the dosage of medicine. She has requested me to just wait & let the depression levels come down. Medicines have shown effect. Although she again gets dull & worried sometimes, but still i have sterted seeing her happy again. God, I feel like in heavens to see her coming out of that hell.
One more thing i would request. If you people could suggest me some readings on relationship improvement. I read 'man are from mars & women from venus' & 'five languages of love'. I want to read something like that. Would be better if i could get something online, because it is hard to find books over here.

And my sincere thanks to all of you people for support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> If you people could suggest me some readings on relationship improvement.


Kriss, did you ever have time to read the four articles (about AvPD) that I provided links to a week ago? If so, did the AvPD traits sound very familiar?


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Off course i worked on AvPD. I confirmed all 7 triats with the help of my wife. She confirmed that she thinks in the same way. But yesterday when i tried to explain this to doctor, Doc said that presently you will find all sort of symptoms in her because of depression so just wait for some time, let the depression first come down then we will diagnose about other symptoms. . Next sitting we are going to visit the director of hospital as well (who diagnosed her for depression ). I will put my findings to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> Doc said that presently you will find all sort of symptoms in her because of depression so just wait for some time, let the depression first come down then we will diagnose about other symptoms.


Kriss, it should be interesting to hear how your psychologist explains your W's intense jealousy and fear of abandonment -- a fear that is NOT characteristic of depression. It also should be interesting to hear him explain how the depression -- which started 3 or 4 years ago -- is causing the abandonment fear and jealousy, which you say she has had since childhood.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Ya, and i am waiting for this puzzle to get sorted out. After 2 weeks again we have to visit doctor and the director had asked us to visit her too at that time. So lets see.
But is there anything that i can contribute in her healing? I want her to feel what she likes. Although i am not a good romantic person but she expects alots of emotional and romantic activities from me. If i am able to give her all that, i guess she would have an easy way out of depression. I guess her incomplete expectations make her feel all kinds of insecurities. Am i thinking in correct way? If so plz suggest something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> She expects alots of emotional and romantic activities from me. If i am able to give her all that, i guess she would have an easy way out of depression. I guess her incomplete expectations make her feel all kinds of insecurities. Am i thinking in correct way?


No, not if you've been describing here accurately. You've described a woman whose insecurities and abandonment fear were firmly entrenched in childhood -- most likely by the time she was five. If so, it likely is impossible for you to make her happy or fix her. She must learn how to do that for herself. Happiness, as they say, is "an inside job." 

It therefore is a mistake to think you have the power to "make her feel all kinds of insecurities." It took me 15 years to learn that, once a person has food and shelter, it is impossible to an "unhappy person" become happy. The happiness has to come from within.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't understand this. Why did my wife get triggered because i looked at child for 3 seconds when i was leaving for office. And then my mom just laughed off saying to my mother in law that- 'he daily looks at the baby while leaving'. My wife started getting tense from the very thought of my attention for the baby. I just don't understand this kind of turbulence her mind shoots on her. Is it hyper jealousy? How do i deal with it. It is really out of my senses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> I don't understand this. Why did my wife get triggered because i looked at child for 3 seconds when i was leaving for office.


Kriss, there probably is nothing there to understand. If your W has strong traits of a PD like Avoidant PD, there is nothing rational about her reaction that can be understood. Her fears likely are being triggered at the subconscious level by intense feelings, not rational thoughts. 

My BPDer exW, for example, often was jealous of the close relationship I had developed with her children. The result was that, any time I showed extra concern about them or love for them, she would feel a threat to her abandonment fear. Similarly, if she caught me looking at another woman for a second instead of a half-second, her anger would be triggered. 

Likewise, if she noticed me walking two steps ahead of her on the sidewalk for a few seconds, she would immediately feel like I didn't want to be seen with her -- or that I wasn't paying any attention to her. Indeed, she would sometimes deliberately slow down just to see how quickly I would notice and match her speed (that's an example of the endless sh!t testing that goes on).


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

kriss332 said:


> I don't understand this. Why did my wife get triggered because i looked at child for 3 seconds when i was leaving for office. And then my mom just laughed off saying to my mother in law that- 'he daily looks at the baby while leaving'. My wife started getting tense from the very thought of my attention for the baby. I just don't understand this kind of turbulence her mind shoots on her. Is it hyper jealousy? How do i deal with it. It is really out of my senses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Kriss,
Is it possible you're misinterpreting your wife's expressions? I'm wondering if it's not possessiveness of you but rather something else. If you've been critical in the past of things like what pillow she's using for the baby, it may be that she's expecting more criticism and gets tense. Have you tried, instead of just glancing at the baby, _smile_ at your wife, look at them both and tell them how lovely, sweet, cute (whatever comes to mind) they look. That way you're letting her know you aren't being critical, that you're proud of both of them, that you love her and appreciate the job she's doing. 

I could be wrong, but it seems like you and your wife may be misunderstanding each other at moments like this.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr. Uptown ! I really feel like being in your shoes. I have gone through such situations. But not that much tough testings. I can imagine the life of BPDer and partner. Continuously walking on eggshells is much miserable. But i guess i should give one try to what Miss. Anabel has advised. 5 days back i had brought a gift for her & i can remember the happiness on her face. I will give a try to that 'appreciating both of them' kind of thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

No, this appreciation idea is not working. She gets triggered again. 
I guess this whole jealousy & abandonment fear is rising from intimacy. I can make out that this all started after we got married. Prior to our marriage my wife had no issues with whatever stuff i had boasted to her or told her(i feel so).
Now, what if intimacy itself is not there? Can intimacy be reduced gradually somehow?

What is that phenomena that creates the space inside human brain for developing dissatisfaction from somebody? In a relationship what gives the comfort in questioning the other person? I guess there is no way to reduce intimacy once you develop it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

As long as both people are in agreement, it's difficult to imagine intimacy being a problem between a husband and wife...

What do you mean by "triggered"? What does she do?


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

She gets triggered by the thought of me developing any attention or care for baby. She starts getting anxious that i will have some affection for the baby & this anxiety is very huge, she starts getting heavily depressed again. Basically she doesn't want me to pay attention or like anybody else at all. Although i keep trying to tell her that it is not going to happen. I have noticed this jealousy at a very very strong level present in her. 
Her father was very close to her. And since this is a well known assumption that daugters are close to their father, it triggers her anxiety. She keeps calculating the future possibilities & keeps getting more tension.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

kriss332 said:


> She gets triggered by the thought of me developing any attention or care for baby. She starts getting anxious that i will have some affection for the baby & this anxiety is very huge, she starts getting heavily depressed again. Basically she doesn't want me to pay attention or like anybody else at all. Although i keep trying to tell her that it is not going to happen. I have noticed this jealousy at a very very strong level present in her.
> Her father was very close to her. And since this is a well known assumption that daugters are close to their father, it triggers her anxiety. She keeps calculating the future possibilities & keeps getting more tension.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know this is what she's thinking because she's told you this? 

What exactly does she do? (Does she just get quiet? Does she storm out of the room? Yell? Complain?)

I ask because it seems to me, if she just looks sad or anxious, and does nothing else, you may want to overlook that. 

It takes months, not days, to build a good foundation. I still think your best bet is to treat her with respect consistently.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

When she gets disturbed, she starts getting dull & sad, i can make out by her face. Then i ask her- what happened? After repeated questions she questions me about my activity. If my explanation is able to calm her (it happens only if my activity is not proved wrong as per her suspicion, thinking pattern & her expectations from me). Otherwise she will get extremely sad, followed by crying & complain session (sometimes arguments & my anger).
Although i have always taken her care upto extreme ends(even her mom tells her this & she also admits it). But it seems that everytime it keeps on increasing her expectations. And then at one end i am not able to meet her expectations. That is her breaking point. 
If i try to overlook or ignore it, she gets more disturbed.
Now a days she is worried & disturbed because of the thought of my possible care for baby in future. And she remains sad & worried whole day. I don't understand how treat her anxiety.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

"Overlook" was a poor word choice. What I should have said was that maybe you should not let her worry rub off so much on you or cause you to respond in a similarly anxious way. Both of you have been through plenty of turmoil recently. It's going to take time for her to recover and also to adjust to the medication. Besides being good to her and honest with her, there is only so much you can do. Again I'd say, try to be patient.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Hello again,
It has been more than a year since I posted back. It was so because I had been taking her to a good phsychologist since then. After some written questonaire and answers analysis doctor told me that she doesn't have BPD, it is just heavy depression. She has been on regular medication since then. It improved her alot. although it was slow but it was steady and seemed to be sort of permanent. She has achieved alot of confidence and can face other people and sometimes she can stand little criticism too. I am happy that she is able to ignore most of the bad conversations too with others. It has reduced much of my burden. She suspecting me also has gone down by a great deal. Doctor told me that it will take alot of time for her to change. May be upto two years. But later I saw the dignosis written on the prescription when we were shifting the doctor because I was transferred to some other far city. It was BPAD. Doc also told me that some amount of symptoms are always going to be remain, they cant be completely treated. I guess I can handle that. Even today she get some suspicious towards me. But I am able to deal with it (I ask herself to resolve it by developing some belief inside her). And it seems to be working.
Now the dose level is being reduced slowly. Lets see how it works. But I guess she will be able to deal with herself.
She has developed some hobby too now. She has got into AutoCAD designing and now joined Revit based structure designing and is gradually planning for more higher courses. She finds it too much interesting. 
Thank god that it all came on track slowly.
For all facing these problems in life, I guess that what feminine brain wants is just a good listnening ear of other person and a good hobby to keep hiself/herself busy, delighted and focused onto some creative work.
Thanks to all of you for your so long support.Thanks you very much.
I guess this thread is almost dead by now. But if someone still wants to give some more ideas, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks alot. May god bless all with a happy life, after all this is what we wish.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm glad to hear that you and your wife are doing a lot better. Is she in therapy as well? Are you getting counseling of any kind to help you hand this?

Dealing with issues like she has can really drag a person down. So you need to take very good care of yourself. What kind of things are you doing for yourself?


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## loveSprite (Jan 5, 2015)

*kriss332*, I just want to commend you Sir, for being there for your wife. I don't have any advice, and I haven't read this thread to know about your past with her, but I do see through your words from your last reply that you truly love your wife and is willing to work with her through the trials of her disease. I write this because I too am plagued with severe depression, and through the worst of it (which is now), my husband has not been there for me. But I am learning to survive and heal without him, though it is very hard and sorrowful for me. But I just want to thank you for loving her unconditionally, because that's how God wanted it to be for all of us with our mates. Day to day your wife is walking through an internal valley of agony and despair, and yet you never stop holding her hand along the way. 

God bless you and your wife, may you have a happy life! :smthumbup:


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

lovesprite:
I'll just write to you after Elegirl.

Elegirl:
Yes, I've been down to severe disappointment sometimes, still I go through these things. I guess, I dont need a therapy. I am too busy with my further IT security studies(which is BTW too tough to master), so that keeps me busy.
I tried to take her to a therapist(the only good one I could find much far in town). But she was not convinced with doc's procedure, so that too is not happening now. We are on the pity of medication only. She still gets mood swings but the frequency and intensity is low now. Moreover the baby girl (2 yrs old now) keeps her much entertained. Presently she is on her job somewhat near to my native place and I am on my job thousand kilometers away. But the baby is big support for her. She has started loving baby too much (whom she used to hate before because of the fear of my possible attention for baby). Gradually I've stopped trying to convince her for her subconcious based doubts & suspiceous thoughts about me, especially when she is disturbed. Once a doctor told me not to do firefighting when a person is upset, it is not going to ease the situation, rather will worsen it. I need some good books to give to her for getting her basics cleared about human behaviour. Plz suggest me some. 

loveSprite:
The pattern of feamle mind is naturally quite swinging. It just needs to be attended and be heard by somebody. Unfortunately, all people are not aware of it and they start to firefight the situation(firefight:- trying to convince the spouse OR trying to make her comfortable) or just get tired of it & leave. And they gradually loose their partner. And unfortunate for females, that they dont get the soothing from their partner. It is all like "Men are from mars and women from venus". Both men & women should go through starting few chapters of this book. Plz advice your husband to read it. Moreover you cannot fight your depression alone by yourself. You need medication. That will keep your mind relaxed and then you will be able to deal with it easily. It is all the matter of chemicals in brain and the design fault of our brain. Some people are more prone to depression while some are not. I would suggest you to read this(power of positive thing by vincent peale):- http://www.shedyourworries.com/DownloadFiles/2.pdf . 
OR- http://www.thinkpositive.net/Books/Power of Positive Thinking.pdf 
Though I havn't gone through the whole book, or it may be totally irrelevant to you. But I can refer you this only presently, since I am not aware of your situation. Your depression may be because of one of thousands of causes. That you need to research and find out. As in my wife's case, her depression started developing because of some insecurity feeling inside her. Its reason belongs to her childhood incidents, where her relatives sometimes used to try to refrain their children having her company because of her asthma. Her sister insulting her due to her being weak in studies. This all still dwells in her mind. This led to having insecurities and then suspecting me of not being honest. Although she is hyper possessive too(even she cant bear the fact if I had spoken to some other girl before our marrige, or her fear that I might have been in relationship with someone before even meeting her for 1st time). I know this behaviour is going to be there lifelong. But now I've learnt how to keep myself at ease in such situation. I try be be jolly at such times & it prevents the tension between us. God! I think I've achieved a Ph'd now ;-) . 
Same way you need to trace the root cause of your depression. Go back and try to find what haunts you most & when you start getting dull. What are the root thaughts associated at such times. All women aren't lucky enough to get good listnening partners. Even my wife wasn't. Learn to fight the damn brain. Hold it by its neck until it gives you what you deserve. 
Watch these kinda things when you are depressed:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN-l6WtB71g
I dont know if it helps you (becoz female taste may differ). But I tell you, watching these kinda things raises my even dead nerves when I am down and hopeless. 

Could help just this much as per my experience. Hope to help more. TC.
Edit: Could you elaborate your depression and situation? Sorry for shortcut, I lack time. I've to keep up with my studies along with job.


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## loveSprite (Jan 5, 2015)

Hi again kriss32,


Thank you for your reply. I've summed up a bit of my situation here, but you can also check out this link which has a more detailed story of how this all came to be(I'm leaving out alot of details in this summary to avoid a super long post):

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-not-love-me-emotional-affair-maybe-more.html


My husband seemed to have just given up on me. But instead of leaving he shut down completely. He emotionally abandoned me. He wanted more sex while I was dealing with all my issues (depression and tumors), and I resented him for it and could only give him obligatory sex once a week. So he got fed up I guess, hence the emotional abandonment. I lived with him for 1.5 years in this state, it was terribly lonely. But then after while I found out about an EA he had, and he denied it and shut down even more. Now I have separated from him, and he did NOT try to stop me - only said "don't go/I don't want u to go" a few times rather blandly. We were SUPPOSED to still work on our issues and continue therapy. But I haven't pushed it since he is so angry when it comes to us. My therapist had actually recommended to let him do the pursuing of making our marriage work after I did it constantly and he didn't respond to any dates or quality time. It's been 4 months and I've been going almost daily to an intense therapy for people that are severely depressed, and he has not ONCE called me unless it's about bills. And he KNOWS that I've been in and out of the clinic too! I'm actually starting to HATE him now, I really can't believe this. 

My husband DID read the Men are from mars and women from venus book - in fact, I told him to read it and he read the whole thing! The problem was that I was supposed to read it too, and I didn't. I got through a chunk but got stressed out again with work and home demands and didn't make it 'till the end. He was highly upset about that, and holds it over my head. 

I take medication right now. I've been on and off of Prozac for a number of years. In the midst of my problems, I told my psychiatrist that I wanted to switch to something else because the lack of libido was causing problems at home, but he told me that he wanted me to try it a little longer in case of side effects of switching to something else. So I did what he said, and now the lack of sexual desire turned my husband into an unloving, horrible stubborn man. And then when I see my therapist once I'm in this intense therapy program, he easily prescribes me another medication(Wellbutrin) which does NOT decrease my libido! But by then I moved out and it was too late. I'm 
thinking this a**hole psychiatrist ruined my chance of a happy marriage! Sorry I'm ranting I know, it's really my husband who is being the a**hole, but I'm just so hurt and angry. The WEllbutrin is good, but I think I need a higher dose, so I'm going to see my psych again for an evaluation next week.

Yep, childhood issues(bullying, being an outcast more or less) had amplified my depression, however my case is also highly based on genetics as I have many aunts and cousins on my father's side that have been medicated and in and out of clinics. 

I also feel - no, I KNOW - that my husband has mental issues as well. He's narcisstic and I have often called him a "semi-sociopath" because of his smart ass comments over and over again, and lack of sympathy/empathy UNLESS I get on him. But I don't wanna push him to do counseling again, I'm just trying to fall out of love with him, because he never shows anything and is withholding I think for revenge, or to make me suffer, or both. 

I'll check out your links and book recommendations, thanks!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> After some written questonaire and answers analysis doctor told me that she doesn't have BPD, it is just heavy depression.... I saw the dignosis.... It was BPAD.


Kriss, thanks for returning to give us an update on your situation. "BPAD" (Bipolar Affective Disorder) is the term used in some countries to refer to what is simply called "Bipolar Disorder" here in the USA. Significantly, your W having bipolar does NOT rule out her also having strong traits of a personality disorder such as AvPD (Avoidant PD) or BPD (Borderline PD), which we discussed two years ago in the posts above. 

A recent study found that 36% of the female bipolar-1 sufferers also had full-blown BPD -- and 27% of the female bipolar-2 sufferers also had full-blown BPD. (You seem to be describing strong depression alternating with very mild mania, which suggests her diagnosis refers to bipolar-2, not bipolar-1.)

When we discussed this two years ago, you decided that your W was not exhibiting many BPD traits but was exhibiting all of the AvPD warning signs. Moreover, when you showed that list of AvPD symptoms to your W, she told you that she was aware of having all of them.

Significantly, in the past two years, your W's psychologist still has not explained why she exhibited intense jealousy and fear of abandonment -- a fear that is NOT characteristic of depression -- starting right after your marriage (and several years before her pregnancy). Nor has he explained how the depression -- which started 5 or 6 years ago -- is causing the abandonment fear and jealousy, which you say she has had since childhood. 

I therefore suggest, again, that you seek a candid opinion from your own psychologist. Relying on your W's therapist for a candid opinion during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on her attorney for candid advice during a divorce. It is important that you consult with a professional who is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not HERS.

As I discussed above (in posts #7 and #21), your best chance of obtaining a candid assessment of whether your W has strong traits of a PD like AvPD or BPD is to see YOUR OWN psychologist, i.e., one who has not seen her and is not treating her. The primary reason for doing this is that, when a disorder has a strong stigma attached to it, doctors frequently will withhold the diagnosis from the client and her family, so as to protect the client. 

With Alzheimer's disease, for example, the Alzheimer's Association has stated that 55% of the people diagnosed with this disease are NOT told the name of the diagnosis because the doctors typically withhold this information. And with regard to BPD, it is widely known that therapists generally are loath to tell a BPDer (or her spouse) the name of her diagnosis -- as I explain at Loath to Diagnose. 

Granted, you've already concluded that she does NOT exhibit strong BPD traits. I am mentioning it, then, only because I can document the withholding of BPD information -- but I haven't done the research to be able to do so for AvPD. Hence, if I were in your shoes, I would seek a second opinion from my own psychologist -- one who is ethically bound to protect only my best interests.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

uptown: Thanks for post.
I too am sure that doctors couldnt diagnose her properly or they didn't tell me the exact problem. She has got some traits of BIPOLAR too. The strong jealousy feelings are there in her since childhood, so we both have got to live with that (I generally laugh off her jealous feelings and she doesn't get upset). I think I need to learn how to be more jolly and that will make huge changes. Unfortunately I couldn't find good doctors since then. And as we have changed the town & she staying far away from me, I am not able to locate a good psychologist (in fact she needs it). In this country good psychologists are very hard to find. But now I'll try more to search. 
As of now I've learnt to control the situation & I'm making her also habitual of not taking control of me. And it is working out. When she finds me more disturbed(which sometimes I've to set up) due to her acts, she calms down. Then, next time she takes care of what she speeks to me. Gradually, she seems to be leaving these things (it may be result of lots of things, that includes her new hobby and baby). I'll observe for some more time and keep looking for a good therapist. Till today life is smooth I can say. Thanks for great help. Will post again with some more findings.


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

loveSprite:
What I understood from your posts is that you have unnecessarily made your life complicated. Your husband used to be a loving guy till the time he could feel love with you and get it from you. Remember, that initial great 24x7 feeling and joy of love doesn't remain forever. After few years of marriage, when we get used to each other, what remains mostly is the feeling of faith, confidence, security, frankness, abit of carelessness and togetherness. That too if everything goes smooth and both have been having the same feelings for each other. What happened in your case is that your husband too was an emotional person like you. But when that change started taking place, things went somewhat different. And he is the kind of guy who wants to see only goodie-goodie things. So he started getting drifted. All I can understand (this may hurt you and can raise critics by others) is that he was never yours after that change. He was with you because he felt love with you, & when the time came for taking responsibility, he drifted to somebody else to get the same thing again from somebody else. The same thing would happen to that girl too after some time. 

All I can suggest is try to be independent now. Waiting for him to come back will make you suffer and even if he comes back, he is not going to be the same guy you married (it will just be like living with a machine). And then another hell will come up on you. I say this because I am a male & I can understand what he might have in his brains. 
He trying to have physical intimacy even in your post surgical recovery time clearly defines his level of responsibility and care for you. He doesn't deserve you.
You are not going to be alone forever. Nobody does. Try to overcome the fear of abandonment. If you have a job or not, pick some objectives(assignment jobs kinda) to finish them alone and independently(will gradually help you to stand independent). Job (just obey the boss) will keep your confidence low. Concentrate on yourself. 
I guess you havn't still explained your depression, symptoms, related thoughts and neither you are working out over that. Once you start working out over them, it'll be very easy for you to overcome any shock. 
Plz find some time to elaborate your depression. 
HTH...


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

kriss,

after having experienced lots of insane moments dealing with emotionally abusive people in my family and previous marriage, and after spending a few years studying all different types of personality disorders (huge thanks to Uptown btw), I have come to one conclusion:

Some people are best described by what I call *Assh0lish Personality Disorder (APD)
*


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## kriss332 (Jan 8, 2013)

Uptown:
In past two days I pondered over things and few things are popping out where I need advice.
I am not asking about any triats as these are now out of my focus. I have few questions in mind.
#1 What may be the actual reason of this strong jealousy that she has been having since childhood (when she didn't even have proper senses). In her childhood she used to be extremely in pain if her mother would pamper another baby. she would fiercly get behind that baby and make him cry to get revenge out of him. The same things are getting conversed onto me now. She has the heavy selfish feelings to be only one in her beloved's attention. Even she can't stand the thought that I might have talked to some girl or the fear that I could have been in friendship with some girl. Although she had (I guess) 3 boyfriends before meeting me. But still she is tryiing to figure out her confusion towards me having any terms with any girl.
#2 The facts that she eastablishes in her mind are so deep in her subconcious mind that everything I explain to her, she twists them & produces in front of me as the proof against me for supporting her beliefs.
#3 Her jealousy (more of heavy disturbance) comes out if she finds my attention or affection towards our baby. She then forgets about our daughter & me and everything goes for a six. She then starts declaring that you now stay with our daughter and take care of only her, forget about me.
Nowadays I just hang up and refuse to talk about any of these issues (as I know that these discussions are going to disturb her more and more). 

I have not yet been able to locate a good therapist since these are quite hard to be found in India. So presently I just want to understand the reasons and remedies of these issues.

Thanks


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I am not so sure about the BPD based on what you have said here. It seems to me like a pretty common and natural reaction to your behavior and the things you have been telling your wife about your involvement with other women. this will understandably make a woman doubt your feelings towards her and question her worthiness. I think you need to get real about how you feel for your wife and you also need to be honest with her instead of telling her inflated stories. At this point it might cause her a great dela of mistrust but you need to be very specific as tyo why you did these things. This needs to be admitted and you need to show your remorse for leading her thoughts in a direction that were untrue to your reality.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kriss332 said:


> #1 What may be the actual reason of this strong jealousy that she has been having since childhood (when she didn't even have proper senses).


Kriss, I cannot tell you what is the "actual reason" for her intense jealousy. I can say, however, that this behavior typically indicates several problems exist. One is that the person has an intense fear of abandonment, as you have already surmised. 

A second likely problem is that intensely jealous people typically are incapable of trusting other people who draw close to them. They may believe that the person actually does love them at the current moment, but they harbor a great fear that the partner will suddenly abandon them when he realizes how empty and worthless they are on the inside. When this feeling is very intense, it usually is an impossible task to convince the person that you will remain loyal and that you truly love them for what they are. Clearly, the presence of such a strong abandonment fear arises largely from a feeling of low self esteem, or from self loathing.

A third likely problem is a very immature, stunted, sense of "object constancy," i.e., the ability to perceive of other peoples' personalities as essentially unchanged from day to day and week to week. When we are babies, one of the first lessons we must learn is that mother does not vanish when she is out of sight or out of the room. When a baby has learned that, she has started to develop her ability to perceive object constancy. At more mature levels, adolescents learn that people generally have stable personalities that, despite changes in outward behavior, remain fairly constant. Emotionally unstable people, however, usually do not realize that because they cannot trust their own personalities, much less those of other people. Accordingly, a person suffering from BPD, for example, may perceive of you as adoring her one minute and then -- a few minutes later -- perceive of you as devaluing her or hating her.



> #2 The facts that she establishes in her mind are so deep in her subconcious mind that everything I explain to her, she twists them & produces in front of me as the proof against me for supporting her beliefs.


You are describing the human condition. Whenever people experience very intense feelings, those strong emotions cloud their judgment and distort their perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. 

You experienced these thought distortions so many hundreds of times that, by the time you were in high school, you already knew that your judgment (i.e., ability to perceive other people clearly) goes out the window every time you get very emotional. This is why, when you're very angry, you always try to keep your mouth shut until you have time to cool down. And this is why, when you're very infatuated, you try to wait several years before proposing and buying the ring.

Similarly, a person having a personality disorder has that very same problem of trying to see things objectively and clearly -- but the problem is multipled five-fold if they lack good control over their own emotions (as with BPDers) or a phobia or great fear of rejection (as with AvPDers). Because these thought distortions occur entirely in the subconscious, the person will consciously be convinced that the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth are absolutely true.



> #3 Her jealousy (more of heavy disturbance) comes out if she finds my attention or affection towards our baby.


The jealousy you describe is so intense and bizzare -- and so persistent since early childhood -- that it seems to be a warning sign for AvPD, BPD, or some other mental disorder. If that cause is a "clinical disorder" such as bipolar or PTSD, it can be treated quite successfully with medication that corrects the underlying chemical disturbance in her body. 

Yet, if the clinical disorder (e.g., bipolar) is accompanied by a co-occurring PD, the PD cannot be treated with medications. Hence, to the extent the PD is the problem, the remedy (if she is willing to work hard for several years) is intensive therapy by a psychologist who is very skilled at teaching the necessary specialized treatment (e.g., CBT or DBT). This, at least, is my understanding, Kriss.


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