# Exercise/weight loss help....



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

So I am in my mid 40s and trying to lose some weight...I enjoy exercise that is the easy part for me...food not so easy.

I find with exercise that I can kind of get obsessed with it...i.e. a 30 minute hike would not be enough...I would have to do a one hour hike and on top of that maybe an exercise class as well.

The other day I did a one hour hike at lunch, then close to where I live there are over 300 stairs in the river valley that people climb, so I did that later on that day and then went to a half hour kickboxing class in the evening...in my mind that is a successful exercise day...either one of those on its own would not have been enough...

I find that the problem lies in that in my mind if I simply spent 15 minutes climbing the steps and that was it...that would have been a not great exercise day...and sometimes I avoid other things I could be doing because I think no you have to work out instead...

I think too because I can overeat and not eat in moderation that a part of my brain thinks well if you are going to do that at least get a ton of exercise in today this way if I overeat then I don't feel so bad....needless to say even with lots of exercise I am finding it hard to lose the weight so something is not working...

I hear people say well I did my half hour workout in the morning now I am done for the day...I wish I could think like that...instead I would think have to fit in more exercise during the rest of the day...

Suggestions please....


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Unfortunately, food is the answer. Exercising for weight loss is not really that achievable. I always say, you eat to lose weight and exercise to gain fitness.

A one hour hike can be undone with a snack.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

the above is correct. Start counting calories using myfitnesspal or some other app like that. Figure out an amount you need to stay under to lose and stick to it. Cardiovascular exercise is fun and good for you. But they are finding that that's about it. 
Start lifting. Heavy.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Here is another active thread that might help:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/321617-building-lean-muscle-my-50s.html

It is all about the eating, If you overeat, you more than cancel out any calorie burn from exercise. You cannot exercise enough to burn excess calories.

I am reading "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" by Tom Venuto. This was recommended by a female TAMer. Very good book. In depth discussions of the 4 pillars: Mental, Nutrition, Cardio, Weights.

I had been trying to lose 10 lbs for years. Finally did it recently through relationship stress in which I did not eat due to the stress. That cut 25% off my total body fat. But I don't recommend that approach. :frown2:

Everyone tells me to use myfitnesspal. I will start that this weekend to track my workouts.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

I'm your age and about five years ago I puzzled that exercise stopped working for weight loss. I'm a big fan of zero-exercise diets now...2 years of losing and maintaining close to my scrawny high school weight. And unfortunately, every time I do more than casual walking my weight starts spiking up. So I cut the exercise and food and get lean again.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

First, bodies are made in the kitchen, not in the gym. 

Second, intensity is the key to everything when it comes to weight loss.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I am eating a large chocolate chip cookie now. Today is cardio day at gym. I think I need like 45 minutes on the treadmill to burn off that cookie. Definitely not worth all the effort needed. I should have skipped the cookie. Maybe tomorrow.....


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

imperfectworld said:


> I'm your age and about five years ago I puzzled that exercise stopped working for weight loss. I'm a big fan of zero-exercise diets now...2 years of losing and maintaining close to my scrawny high school weight. And unfortunately, every time I do more than casual walking my weight starts spiking up. So I cut the exercise and food and get lean again.


I think exercise is important for a person both mentally and physically so the idea of not exercising at all does not appeal to me....I think there are too many benefits.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

highwood said:


> I think exercise is important for a person both mentally and physically so the idea of not exercising at all does not appeal to me....I think there are too many benefits.


You are right. You just have to eat less calories. It's that simple to understand, not so easy to actually do.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

On the left, an hour of incline treadmill each day. On the right, 7 months of lunchtime walks only and a very healthy paleo (but restrictive) diet.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

imperfectworld said:


> I'm your age and about five years ago I puzzled that exercise stopped working for weight loss. I'm a big fan of zero-exercise diets now...2 years of losing and maintaining close to my scrawny high school weight. And unfortunately, every time I do more than casual walking my weight starts spiking up. So I cut the exercise and food and get lean again.


Your weight might spike up but is it fat or muscle? Maybe it's fat if you find yourself hungrier after working out. If you increase calories make it lean protein so your body can build muscle. Your body still needs exercise - none at all, regardless of how slim you are, isn't healthy.


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## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

Keep up the exercise, eat about 90 % protien 10% carbs, take your vitamins, and you WILL lose weight . 
When you want to cheat... eat meat !

As I type this I'm munching on some tasty beef jerky 12g protein, so I can make it to Dinner


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Lift weight, serious!!!! Women need to add muscle to burn those calories.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

Deleted


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## SouthGaDippin (May 12, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Lift weight, serious!!!! Women need to add muscle to burn those calories.




Exactly, I'm a 45 yr. old male, and working out is a life style, I will spend 2-2.5 hrs a day in the gym, I love it, great way to work off stress, or frustrations. I have women in the gym ask for advice on working out all the time, and all say the same thing, " I don't want to look manly". The truth is a woman doesn't produce enough testosterone to start looking manly, the women bodybuilder or other women (fitness models to some degree) that take on manly features are using some sort of PEDs (performance enhancing drugs). Muscle will burn fat, and to build muscle you must eat!! As I tell anyone who asks for advice, read, go on YouTube to find exercises, learn how to work muscles differently. The great thing about working out/ bodybuilding is if you think your arms are too muscular, lighten the weight and they will get smaller on their own in time. But no matter how hard you workout, you CANT out train a bad diet. And it won't happen over night. It's a game, you have to find out how your body responds to different types of training. To give an example last year I wanted to try and gain some size, so I upped my calories from 3000 calories a day gradually to 4200 calories a day (over about 3 weeks) at the beginning of this on day one I was 6 ft. 245 lbs. at the 3 week mark, I decided to weigh, and I weighed 226 lbs on the same scales. A little confused I asked a personal trainer/ dietitian friend of mine about it and he said that it seems to him that I was operating on a calorie deficit at the 3000 calories a day, and my body realized it was finally getting enough calories and started to burn stored fat. The body is an amazing creation, your limits are in your head. Also I'd like to say that you don't have to lift heavy weight to build muscle, muscle is built by time under tension. So you can control the muscle you build. And ladies, do your self a favor and squat, cause nothing turns a guys head like a nice round booty. Sorry this is so long for my first real post. 
P.s if your intimidated by going to the gym because you don't want to be made fun of, don't worry, the gym is a very self centered place, the true gym rats are only looking at themselves. Lol. Have fun, Be happy, and get sweaty.


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## SouthGaDippin (May 12, 2016)

Also as for apps, the two I use are really good and free, Myfitnesspal, and JEFIT. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

SouthGaDippin said:


> Exactly, I'm a 45 yr. old male, and working out is a life style, I will spend 2-2.5 hrs a day in the gym, I love it, great way to work off stress, or frustrations. I have women in the gym ask for advice on working out all the time, and all say the same thing, " I don't want to look manly". The truth is a woman doesn't produce enough testosterone to start looking manly, the women bodybuilder or other women (fitness models to some degree) that take on manly features are using some sort of PEDs (performance enhancing drugs). Muscle will burn fat, and to build muscle you must eat!! As I tell anyone who asks for advice, read, go on YouTube to find exercises, learn how to work muscles differently. The great thing about working out/ bodybuilding is if you think your arms are too muscular, lighten the weight and they will get smaller on their own in time. But no matter how hard you workout, you CANT out train a bad diet. And it won't happen over night. It's a game, you have to find out how your body responds to different types of training. To give an example last year I wanted to try and gain some size, so I upped my calories from 3000 calories a day gradually to 4200 calories a day (over about 3 weeks) at the beginning of this on day one I was 6 ft. 245 lbs. at the 3 week mark, I decided to weigh, and I weighed 226 lbs on the same scales. A little confused I asked a personal trainer/ dietitian friend of mine about it and he said that it seems to him that I was operating on a calorie deficit at the 3000 calories a day, and my body realized it was finally getting enough calories and started to burn stored fat. The body is an amazing creation, your limits are in your head. Also I'd like to say that you don't have to lift heavy weight to build muscle, muscle is built by time under tension. So you can control the muscle you build. And ladies, do your self a favor and squat, cause nothing turns a guys head like a nice round booty. Sorry this is so long for my first real post.
> P.s if your intimidated by going to the gym because you don't want to be made fun of, don't worry, the gym is a very self centered place, the true gym rats are only looking at themselves. Lol. Have fun, Be happy, and get sweaty.


I was into bodybuilding in my mid 20's....seems like a lifetime ago now! 160 lbs was my max squat, 130 lbs was my max bench press and I was curling 40 lbs per arm. I was trying to gain 5 lbs and was limiting my cardio to save the muscle. I was 120 lbs, a size 5, lean and fit. I was no way bulky or unattractive. What I can say is that for women it is so much harder to build muscle. These ladies that you see all bulked up with manly muscles are on steroids.

I have a 19 year old daughter who also has taken to lifting just as I had. She lefts heavier than I did, again little cardio, and she is a size 3-4.

Seriously ladies if you want to be lean, lose weight, hire a trainer or read about lifting. The male body produces more testosterone naturally than women, no brainer but it is the hormones that influence our bodies. We have to work harder for muscle but muscle can burn fat faster and that is why men can eat more!!!!!!! Bummer for us!

Anyone who is over weight I would suggest cardio, cardio is good for the heart and weight is hard on the heart. But seriously get to going on those dumbbells!!!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Eat non-processed food, move your body A LOT at a moderate pace (take lots of strolls whenever you can--get your 10,000 steps per day), and lift HEAVY weights 3-4 times per week.

Barring any medical or metabolic disorders, eliminating processed foods eliminates weight problems for most folks. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I thought this article was interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks all...some great advice

I definently need to scale back on the fast food/junk food...I am embarrassed as to the amount some days I eat...

I changed job locations so I can't go home for lunch anymore...so now I seem to find myself in the closest drive thru ordering something that doesn't even taste that great but sure is convenient...then of course I feel gross after but then do the same thing the next day.

I honestly think if I did not exercise I would probably weight about 50 lbs more....but at the same time for the amount of exercise I do the scale is not budging and it is obvious something has to change.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

The pathetic part is two months ago I found out I had high blood pressure and I remembering thinking at the time this is the motivation I need to finally get myself in better shape....alas as I am on medication to control it...my motivation has also gone down hill...that is what scares me am I going to become one of these pill poppers because I can't control my eating...so instead of taking action I will just take the easy way out and turn to meds.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Highwood, I think it would be good to get some perspective on the situation. You did not get to where you are in a day, and you aren't going to get out of it in a day either. It starts small, and builds over time.

Today, make a better choice. If you are eating out, find ways to do it a little better. Small changes over time produce results. Diets and dieting are rarely successful or sustainable. Find a new way to live, one step at a time.

Try to think about things in advance a little. Like if you know your dinner is going to be something you want to indulge in, go lighter at lunch/breakfast.

A little of my backstory: I was about 320lbs (carried it well, if that means much!). I changed my whole way of life over time, and lost 100lbs. I actually weighed less at 35 than I did at 14. I have kept most of that weight off, but due to some circumstances that I allowed to erode my healthy changes, I got back to 270. I am on a quest to get down to 210, and I am 10% of the way there after a few weeks. All by small changes and thoughtful eating.

I have a lot of exercise limitations due to multiple heart surgeries, which is part of the circumstances that led to the weight gain. I do what I can, and I recommend if you are going to exercise you life weights and do interval training.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Tasorundo said:


> Highwood, I think it would be good to get some perspective on the situation. You did not get to where you are in a day, and you aren't going to get out of it in a day either. It starts small, and builds over time.
> 
> Today, make a better choice. If you are eating out, find ways to do it a little better. Small changes over time produce results. Diets and dieting are rarely successful or sustainable. Find a new way to live, one step at a time.
> 
> ...



Absolutely....I agree...our years ago I was at goal weight now four years later I have put on 40 lbs.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I also joined MFP


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

X


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

OliviaG said:


> Junk food can be addicting and so can sugar. Think about that when you get cravings, and resist them.
> 
> Cook extra for dinner every night and bring leftovers for lunch the next day. That's easy and will be more nutritious, less calories, less full of salt and better tasting than fast food.


and cheaper, too.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> Junk food can be addicting and so can sugar. Think about that when you get cravings, and resist them.
> 
> Cook extra for dinner every night and bring leftovers for lunch the next day. That's easy and will be more nutritious, less calories, less full of salt and better tasting than fast food.


Great idea..another thing I thought of was close to my work about 5 minutes away is a mall..I could bring my indoor running shoes and walk the mall for about half an hour then pick up some stir fry from the food court or even a healthy sub from subway...then go back to work....

At least then I am getting in some lunchtime exercise 

I like MFP....I have been tracking my food and often other than making a few healthier choices swapping this for that...along with my exercise I have been doing okay...


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Is that you?



imperfectworld said:


> On the left, an hour of incline treadmill each day. On the right, 7 months of lunchtime walks only and a very healthy paleo (but restrictive) diet.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

Deleted


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

If there is a Jimmy Johns hear you, get the Un-which there, it is so good! I get them if I know I am having a bigger dinner. Like Saturday is pretzel wrapped sausages and beer cheese night in our house (son loves it). So if I get an unwhich for lunch, I am still good for the day.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Losing weight has come from you...and you have to become passionate about it. It truly has be a lifestyle change and not a diet.

You can read my story if you would like- I've climbed that mountain- but you have to have a motivator. It doesn't sound like the health concern worked...what about better sex? Crossing something off your bucket list (Marathons, SCUBA, Skyjumping, etc)? A goal is a great thing to have. It steels your resolve when it gets tough. I have long term, short term and daily goals. It helps.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Went back on my intermittent fasting routine (did it before with low carb. Not really low carbing, but calories are def down). Was running the treadmill and listing weights, but now it's nice, pulling the bike out.

Yesterday, tire was flat. Filled it up and figured, that'll be fine. 4 miles in, tire was in bad shape, but it didn't stop me, 13 miles, last mile all up hill. Legs are pissed at me today.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

highwood said:


> So I am in my mid 40s and trying to lose some weight...I enjoy exercise that is the easy part for me...food not so easy.
> 
> I find with exercise that I can kind of get obsessed with it...i.e. a 30 minute hike would not be enough...I would have to do a one hour hike and on top of that maybe an exercise class as well.
> 
> ...


The struggle is real! I have no problems exercising; I actually find it a good stress reliever. My problem is eating too much food and not making good choices. Not making good choices usually comes into play when I let myself get too hungry. It's hard to watch my H eat and lose weight. I swear, he can reduce his food intake by 1/2 cookie and the weight will just fall off. Is it harder for women than men? I think it's a fact that women just naturally have higher metabolism than men do. So women have to work harder. And, I'm an emotional eater and that's really hard to overcome.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Stomach virus / kidney stones do wonders for losing weight quick :grin2:

You want to lose weight, figure out your desired macros (aim for an approx 300c deficit per day), track every day with an app such as mfp, train your ass off at the gym (i.e. lift weights, including heavy weights, along with HIIT cardio). Most important, BE CONSISTENT!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

highwood said:


> So I am in my mid 40s and trying to lose some weight...I enjoy exercise that is the easy part for me...food not so easy.
> 
> I find with exercise that I can kind of get obsessed with it...i.e. a 30 minute hike would not be enough...I would have to do a one hour hike and on top of that maybe an exercise class as well.
> 
> ...


I'm 48 and lost 25 pounds this year, so it is possible to lost weight even as you get older. I'm down to 120 and feel like I could use some sculpting, meaning I don't really need to lose weight but to add more muscle and lose a little more fat. 

I understand the exercise obsession thing. I used to get that way...if some is good, more is better, right? So I found myself running longer and longer, and feeling super guilty if I didn't, so eventually I'd just give up...all or nothing!

What I've learned is that I don't really need to exercise for long lengths of time. I do high intensity interval training on my elliptical - 20 minutes a day, 3-4 days a week. I throw in some other activities here and there, though not on a regular basis. And I've started doing push-ups, crunches, and other body weight exercises, but not that many, though I do some almost every day. (If anyone is interested, I found old video clips on YouTube that I use - "8 Minute Abs," "8 Minute Legs," "8 Minute Buns," and "8 Minutes Arms" (using dumbells). The host is cheesy, but very enthusiastic and encouraging, lol.)

I feel very fit, lol. _But I also found that the exercise didn't matter much for weight loss._ Yes, I have more muscle now, and yes, the workouts do burn some calories, so that helps. But the main thing is food. _Unless you change the amount of calories you are eating, you will not lose weight even if you exercise all day long. _

Once I focused on portion control, and found a way to deal with my nightly snack cravings, the weight started coming off seemingly without effort. That's it. 

You have to tackle your food issues, or you won't lose weight. If you love fast food and can't give it up, fine. Cut that burger in half and toss it, toss half the french fries. Every time you get fast food, or go out to eat, eat only half of it. Bring leftovers, or make your own lunch and bring that, if lunch is your problem. Bring fruit or yogurt or something for snacks so you don't end up ravenous by the time you get to lunch or dinner.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

norajane said:


> I'm 48 and lost 25 pounds this year, so it is possible to lost weight even as you get older. I'm down to 120 and feel like I could use some sculpting, meaning I don't really need to lose weight but to add more muscle and lose a little more fat.
> 
> I understand the exercise obsession thing. I used to get that way...if some is good, more is better, right? So I found myself running longer and longer, and feeling super guilty if I didn't, so eventually I'd just give up...all or nothing!
> 
> ...


Awesome....I like your method...that is what I am trying to do is just eat what I want but eat less of it...not always easy but takes consistency....that is the key!

I find I do waste a lot of food it seems as I buy something eat a little of it and then throw it out but whatever...

I love the word "fit"...I have a friend who always says she wants to be skinny again and it like skinny give me a break...I don't associate skinny with being in shape and looking good...I like the word fit instead...I will also check out those 8 minute youtube videos.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I am so stoked...I have been doing these steps that are in our river valley close to home (probably about 300 steps all together)...have been doing them about 5 times a week on average for the last two months - some days I have even gone twice...well yesterday I went for a hike and lots of good incline on this hike...and often in the past I have had to stop while walking up a hill to catchmy breath once or twice well yesterday not once did I have to do that. Then it hit me...all the steps I have been doing is paying off...

Talk about motivating! My goal for the next year is to get really fit...and I feel like slowly it is happening


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

> Sounds good, but a couple of comments: I'm not sure that there's such a thing as a "healthy" sub: huge amount of bread, cold cuts (not sure what's less healthy than cold cuts in our food supply), excess salt (a problem in *all* fast food).


I am not disagreeing with you. That said IF one does need to get lunch out, Panera Bread is not bad. A half salad with a soup or a half sammich with their good bread can by ok-ish.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> and lift HEAVY weights 3-4 times per week.


One of the things that people don't realize and that you cannot reflect on MFP is the effect of muscle on metabolism. Muscle mass equals more calorie requirement at rest. So muscle mass = free calories.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> I am not disagreeing with you. That said IF one does need to get lunch out, Panera Bread is not bad. A half salad with a soup or a half sammich with their good bread can by ok-ish.


Agree with both you and OG. There was a report done actually talking about this, where people for example go to Subway thinking they are going to eat healthier then going to McDs but end up putting away more calories, carbs, salt from their Subway sandwich. No matter where you go to eat, you have control to make it as healthy or unhealthy as you want.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Agree with both you and OG. There was a report done actually talking about this, where people for example go to Subway thinking they are going to eat healthier then going to McDs but end up putting away more calories, carbs, salt from their Subway sandwich. *No matter where you go to eat, you have control to make it as healthy or unhealthy as you want*.


Is that really true? At subway, they have wheat rolls, but they don't have whole grain or sprouted grain or any other decent bread. Their veggies are tired and sad.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> Is that really true? At subway, they have wheat rolls, but they don't have whole grain or sprouted grain or any other decent bread. Their veggies are tired and sad.


I believe so. Using Subway as an example, you can go with a 6in sub instead of a 12in (although studies suggest that their 12in sub isn't really 12 inches lol). You can also make better choices not only the "meat" you choose (I say meat loosely, their "grilled chicken" is basically mashed up chicken parts with grill marks painted on lol) but also what toppings you apply. Once you start dumping on toppings, salad dressing, etc... the numbers can skyrocket very quickly.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I can eat healthy at any fast food place. Subway is my favorite. It's all about will power. I haven't drank a drop of soda since December 2015 and plan on never doing it again. I drink water, tea, and beer (moderation).

I'm 5'10 and down to 167lb and got quite a bit of lean muscle. I can bench press my weight 10x and do 15x full pull ups with no issues. Amazing how many adults can't even do a single pull up! I hit the gym 3-4x a week doing weights only and very cautious of what I eat 5 days a week. I eat burgers/pizza/Chinese/Mexican twice a week.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

You can bench press 1670 lbs? I'm even turned on.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Herschel said:


> You can bench press 1670 lbs? I'm even turned on.


It is called "Beast mode" lol


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Herschel said:


> You can bench press 1670 lbs? I'm even turned on.


2x45's and 2x25's = 185lb 10x all the way. A lot of guys can't do that.

I can do two 45 plates on each side a couple times. The goal is to do that 10x but will take some time.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> 2x45's and 2x25's = 185lb 10x all the way. A lot of guys can't do that.
> 
> I can do two 45 plates on each side a couple times. The goal is to do that 10x but will take some time.


It was a joke ( @Herschel took 167 x10 = 1670) :wink2:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

52 here and down almost 50 lbs. since January 12th. I have never once in my life lost weight before this year. 

I use MFP religiously, and it's the key. I will never eat a paleo diet or any other fad that doesn't allow me some of the joys of living well through what I stuff into my pie hole. So today, it was lunch at Baja Fresh where I had the shrimp Baja Ensalada with salsa verde for a measly 245 calories. That made up for the Krispy Kreme glazed donut that the boss brought in this morning with my coffee.

But you have to know 1) what you're eating and 2) that you cannot exercise your way out of a bad diet. Religiously enter every morsel that goes in your mouth into the app. Set a weight loss goal, and meet your calorie restrictions. Exercise for health, but do not count your exercise calories against your daily limit. Just ignore them. As soon as you get an idea of how calorie laden some of your food may be, you'll adjust your intake accordingly to help you feel full on less.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> Is that really true? At subway, they have wheat rolls, but they don't have whole grain or sprouted grain or any other decent bread. Their veggies are tired and sad.


Perhaps, but on the flip side I can walk down the street at lunch, get a six inch turkey breast sandwich with all of the "tired" veggies I can stomach, a bag of baked potato chips, and a water or diet soda for lunch - all for well under 450 calories and a full stomach. You'd be hard pressed to find a single menu item at McDs that low.


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