# same old story



## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

Here is my tale of woe. I'm hoping it will have some sort of therapeutic benefit, so apologies for the length.

Bit of back-story: I'm English and my cheating wife is Japanese. We met in England while we were both studying. We were married for 6 years and together for ten overall. I thought she was the woman I would spend the rest of my life with.

Because we were from different countries and because of visas, illness, family concerns etc. there were often times when we apart for long periods of time. I trusted her and she trusted me. We spoke every day and I never had a problem staying faithful and as far as I knew, neither did she.

Two years ago, we decided that we would move back to Japan together, as it would be easier for her to get a job and the cost of living was cheaper. My wife returned first and started to prepare for me coming over, getting a job, sorting visa etc. while I moved back to my parents, worked hard and saved money.

First warning sign I get is an email from her asking if I would ever go out with a female colleague for lunch or drinks. I replied that I didn't think it was a great idea and that whoever this dude was, he didn't have friendship on his mind. My wife replies that it wasn't about her and she just wanted to know my opinion as she read it in a magazine. Didn't believe her for a minute, but I made my point clear that it wasn't a good idea. Also if she was thinking of cheating/didn't want to be married to me any more, all she had to do was tell me she wasn't doing my visa and there would be nothing I could do about it. So no problem, right? Wrong, of course.

My crazy wife instead lets me move all the way across the world, get rid of half my stuff, quit my job, give up my flat, spend thousands on moving etc.

As soon as I get there a month or so later I sense things aren't right. It's just a gut feeling along with her unusually snotty attitude towards me. At first I thought it was because I wasn't working right away and she was working her first full time job, but after a while things got too suspicious (frequent texting to unnamed friends, frequent work leaving parties ((her shop wouldn't have any staff left if she was telling the truth!)) ) I started snooping and found out she was having an affair with a co-worker.

I felt like I'd been kicked through a window. I still can't believe that it happened. While not always perfect, we had no issues in our marriage that I could think of at all. Certainly none that couldn't be solved by communication rather than cheating. I was one of the only happily married couples I knew. Friends would use us as an example when talking about successful marriages. 

My wife couldn't give an adequate reason for why. It might have been easier to accept if I was neglectful, a drunk or wasn't taking care of things in the bedroom; instead I got total drivel like how one time in 2005 when it was 30 odd degrees I wanted the air conditioner on, but the noise was keeping her awake. Because of her actions I don't believe a word she says any longer anyway, so it's something I'm probably never going to get a proper answer to.

I gave it some thought, but the sense of betrayal was too great. The person I was in love with would never have done this to me. I went home to England and am all set to divorce. Shortly after leaving, my wife sends me my divorce papers, saying she doesn't want to, I reply, 'Why did you cheat on me then? it makes no sense.' my only reply is an unsatisfactory, 'I know.'


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Sounds like the marriage was sort of doomed from the start. That's a tough deal.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What does she want to do? She lies easily to go out and screw at least one other man. The Japanese have a different view of fidelity. Can you tolerate an open marriage?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

She wants an open marriage, and figured that once you moved to Japan it would be hard to dump her. She won't give you any real answers because she doesn't think she did anything wrong. Well either that or she doesn't want to deal with it, the Japanese are known to be rug sweepers, it's not polite to deal with anything.....you made the right decision to go back to England.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

What an awful story. Your wife is a real piece of work. Just divorce her and move on and do not waste another second on her. My guess is that her lover boy dumped her. A Japanese woman living in Japan who is divorced is looked down upon greatly in Japan. She would have a difficult time finding someone to marry her in Japan.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> What does she want to do? She lies easily to go out and screw at least one other man. The Japanese have a different view of fidelity. Can you tolerate an open marriage?


No, as much as it pained me, I gave her the heave-ho. 
Due to my Dad messing up my childhood with his cheating antics, cheating's always been a deal breaker and she knew it.
Possibly it was cultural, but they used to execute adulterers in ancient Japan too, so she knows right from wrong.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

bryanp said:


> What an awful story. Your wife is a real piece of work. Just divorce her and move on and do not waste another second on her. My guess is that her lover boy dumped her. A Japanese woman living in Japan who is divorced is looked down upon greatly in Japan. She would have a difficult time finding someone to marry her in Japan.


Yeah, I got the same impression. When I found out and confronted her, she told me they didn't even speak any more. I said I found it hard to believe how according to her diary he was Mr. Wonderful one minute and then all of a sudden they just stop talking for no reason. 

What was almost as bad as the affair was how dumb she seemed to think I must be to believe any of her outrageous lies.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I would inform her parents of her betrayal. They may well really go off on her, loyalty is important in families in Japan.

I'd also inform her boss at work, while he doesn't care about you, staff who date disrupt work place harmony.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> I would inform her parents of her betrayal. They may well really go off on her, loyalty is important in families in Japan.
> 
> I'd also inform her boss at work, while he doesn't care about you, staff who date disrupt work place harmony.


I was tempted to tell her mother. As you said, it wouldn't go well for her. My MIL was really good to me in the past and my cowardly wife hasn't told her why I left and has just let her assume I lost my mind and ran off, I suppose.

Trouble is that I'm not a particularly vengeful person. I hate her for what she did to me, but messing up her life further isn't going to get me my marriage back to where it was. Plus, she's struggled with depression in the past and I don't want her doing anything stupid to herself. She might be a scummy ho, but I did love her at one point.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Downthedrain said:


> I was tempted to tell her mother. As you said, it wouldn't go well for her. My MIL was really good to me in the past and my cowardly wife hasn't told her why I left and has just let her assume I lost my mind and ran off, I suppose.
> 
> Trouble is that I'm not a particularly vengeful person. I hate her for what she did to me, but messing up her life further isn't going to get me my marriage back to where it was. Plus, she's struggled with depression in the past and I don't want her doing anything stupid to herself. She might be a scummy ho, but I did love her at one point.


I hate to say it,but you being soft like this isn't good for you or frankly for her.

For you, telling the truth is cathartic not vengeful. Vengeance would be burning the OMs house to the ground, not just telling the freaking truth.

She needs to be held accountable for her choices,it is what is going to force her to grow up, you covering up the truth is only enabling her to live the lie like a child.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

Tell her mom. Don't let your wife take your reputation along with the pride she already destroyed. Can you still divorce her even if she won't sign the agreement?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> I hate to say it,but you being soft like this isn't good for you or frankly for her...


I wouldn't say I'm covering up for her. My family know she's a cheat. What she tells her own family isn't really my concern any more though. If she's going to keep lying about what happened, that's something she has to live with. Last I heard, she was still pretending to everyone at her work that I was still living happily with her. Pretty sad and pathetic really.

I'll think about what you said though, as I do see where you're coming from.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to divorce if she refuses to sign. I presume I'd have to wait a certain amount of time. 
When I said we were through, she sent the agreement to me to sign, so I'm hopeful she'll just sign and get it over with.
If not, I'll do what needs to be done. Probably threaten to tell her mother.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

When I was a marine I had a buddy who got shipped to Okinawa and he ended up bringing home a Japanese girl. Within five years she had engaged in three affairs. He didn't divorce her the first time and she ended up getting her citizenship and then she took him to the cleaners when he divorced her because they lived in an alimony state. Only good thing was he never had kids with her. Sex and marriage must be viewed differently in Japan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> When I was a marine I had a buddy who got shipped to Okinawa and he ended up bringing home a Japanese girl. Within five years she had engaged in three affairs. He didn't divorce her the first time and she ended up getting her citizenship and then she took him to the cleaners when he divorced her because they lived in an alimony state. Only good thing was he never had kids with her. Sex and marriage must be viewed differently in Japan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's hard to say, I mean we have more than our fair share of cheats here in the UK, so I don't necessarily think it's just down to her being Japanese. 

Although thinking back a fair few years, we had a Japanese friend in college who had a couple one night stands while her fiance was in Japan and I remember my wife disagreeing with me that her friend was cheating on him. 

Hmmm, after writing that last paragraph I think I should have made a note to myself back then that she possibly might not be marriage material. But when you're young and in love...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> When I was a marine I had a buddy who got shipped to Okinawa and he ended up bringing home a Japanese girl. Within five years she had engaged in three affairs. He didn't divorce her the first time and she ended up getting her citizenship and then she took him to the cleaners when he divorced her because they lived in an alimony state. Only good thing was he never had kids with her. Sex and marriage must be viewed differently in Japan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



When I was in the army the guys used to get shipped to Korea and come back with wives. One thing I was told was that in Asia people are not big on race mixing and don't like it when their people marry non Asians. So what you really get are the lower quality women with fewer prospects, while western men think they're getting a great subservient Asian wife. I have family from Russia and it's the same thing, the ones that look for western men are the women with fewer prospects.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't think I'd say my wife was a lower quality woman with no prospects (well, I know she's a cheat, therefore low quality). She was attractive and her mother was quite well-off. She was cool and funny too. She could have quite easily landed a decent Japanese guy.

I think she probably liked the novelty of having an English husband, but after a while the effort of maintaining a mixed-race marriage got too much and she took the easy option thinking the grass would be greener but it wasn't. But by then it was too late and I'd found out.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

There some truth in the concept about being wary of SOs from places like Japan. Outsiders are not typically welcomed and are viewed with concern and distrust, the people who romantically engage with outsiders are bucking the trend and society and along with that can include social rules like not cheating.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Have you mentioned whether the OM is married? If he is, you should expose to his wife.

In general, though, I think you're doing the right thing by cutting your losses. I doubt there was any evil plan on her part when she let you move your whole life to Japan, knowing that she was with an OM. I bet she is just a coward.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

There some truth in the concept about being wary of SOs from places like Japan. Outsiders are not typically welcomed and are viewed with concern and distrust, the people who romantically engage with outsiders are bucking the trend and society and along with that can include social rules like not cheating.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry folks but I'm calling this one. The idea that Westerners are somehow more moral than Asians is borderline racist. Japanese women have a reputation for fidelity, second to none. A Japanese woman who would knowingly and willfully risk her familie's and her husband's reputation, and place in society,for the sake of an illicit affair would almost certainly be ostracized from her family, permanently.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Your being soft now will come back and bite you in the ass later. Trust me on this one. Tell her family what the reason for the divorce is.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Rookie4? Hello, Hello..McFly? Just saying, it is not GERMAIN in this case. Just my 2 cents David


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Have you mentioned whether the OM is married? If he is, you should expose to his wife.
> 
> In general, though, I think you're doing the right thing by cutting your losses. I doubt there was any evil plan on her part when she let you move your whole life to Japan, knowing that she was with an OM. I bet she is just a coward.


I haven't even seen this OM, so I don't really know much about him. Wasn't really interested tbh. From the text messages I found on her phone, he's definitely single and I would have put him as a little bit younger than me and my wife, maybe early to mid 20s, wife is 30 this year, I'm 32. But it's just a guess, he could be 75 and necking a bottle of viagra a day for all I know.

She got quite agitated when I suggested that this guy had played her and spun her a load of bs and now didn't want to know once he'd got what he wanted. That and how they supposedly now don't talk, makes me think that she got flattered by the attention and took leave of her senses. She's never acted like this before as far as I'm aware, and I caught her pretty easily this time - she's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to subterfuge.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> There some truth in the concept about being wary of SOs from places like Japan. Outsiders are not typically welcomed and are viewed with concern and distrust, the people who romantically engage with outsiders are bucking the trend and society and along with that can include social rules like not cheating.


It's probably likely that other men would have seen my wife as fair game because I'm only a foreigner, but I still expected more from my wife. We've been through a a lot together and I've sacrificed a lot of things in my life to be with her, which obviously counted for nothing.

Her family have always been very welcoming to me though. Before we were even married, they insisted I help with her Grandmother's funeral despite my protestations that I wasn't family. While there is certainly an element of racism over there, I don't believe it is as cut and dry as 'she cheated on me because she was Japanese'.

Apart from the one comment she made when we were in college, she'd never shown any signs of cheating all the time we were together. Which is why I caught her so easily this time, because it was just so out of character for her.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

DavidWYoung said:


> Your being soft now will come back and bite you in the ass later. Trust me on this one. Tell her family what the reason for the divorce is.


There's not really anything she can do to me that's worse than what she's already done. We don't have any shared assets or any children. The house we had in Japan was bought for us by her mother and is in her mother's name. I came back to England with only 2 suitcases to my name. Quite liberating really. 

If anything, she's the one who has to worry about what I could do, but luckily for her I would rather just be rid of her ASAP so I can get on with rebuilding my life back in the UK. Things aren't going great for her at the moment, so I'd just be kicking her while she's down.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Rookie4 said:


> Sorry folks but I'm calling this one. The idea that Westerners are somehow more moral than Asians is borderline racist. Japanese women have a reputation for fidelity, second to none. A Japanese woman who would knowingly and willfully risk her familie's and her husband's reputation, and place in society,for the sake of an illicit affair would almost certainly be ostracized from her family, permanently.


I agree 100%. 

The fact that the OP's wife is Asian doesn't mean she's more liable to cheat. 

People are people. We're all capable of doing crappy things. It doesn't vary by region or race.

:scratchhead:


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Sounds like the marriage was sort of doomed from the start. That's a tough deal.


Sounds alot like one of those "Russian Bride" style of marriages, or one where a lady comes to the States to get her green card. Confused hubby doesn't understand why she can be so cold after she meets her objective, keeps reaching for "love" when there was none to begin with.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

> Sorry folks but I'm calling this one. The idea that Westerners are somehow more moral than Asians is borderline racist. Japanese women have a reputation for fidelity, second to none. A Japanese woman who would knowingly and willfully risk her familie's and her husband's reputation, and place in society,for the sake of an illicit affair would almost certainly be ostracized from her family, permanently.



The younger generation is changing and those notions are not like it use to be. I spent a few years in Japan and trust me the women and men cheat like the rest of the world. Love Hotels in Japan are a booming business.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

sinnister said:


> People are people. We're all capable of doing crappy things. It doesn't vary by region or race.
> 
> :scratchhead:


I would like to believe this as true, but I just can't due to societal and cultural differences. Cheating is something that the society defines and what may be cheating in one is not necessarily deemed as such in another. It is not so black and white. Within Amsterdam, visiting the red light district is not always viewed as cheating. Selling sex is considered a service job. It is a paid for service, and the providers of that service are seen as just providing a service, with some going home to families at the end of the day. Within the ME, a man having several wives can be the norm, and spending each night with a different "wife" is not cheating in their culture. Both of these examples would be cheating in Western culture, but are not viewed negatively or as such in their culture, so to an extent race and religion can also be determining factors to cheating (not to mention that in the US, the worst that can happen is D, large debt, and in very rare cases jail times or fines (only 6-7 states still legally consider it a crime), but in parts of the ME, it can mean death. Death becomes a very big motivator not to cheat.)


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Squeakr said:


> I would like to believe this as true, but I just can't due to societal and cultural differences. Cheating is something that the society defines and what may be cheating in one is not necessarily deemed as such in another. It is not so black and white. Within Amsterdam, visiting the red light district is not always viewed as cheating. Selling sex is considered a service job. It is a paid for service, and the providers of that service are seen as just providing a service, with some going home to families at the end of the day. Within the ME, a man having several wives can be the norm, and spending each night with a different "wife" is not cheating in their culture. Both of these examples would be cheating in Western culture, but are not viewed negatively or as such in their culture, so to an extent race and religion can also be determining factors to cheating (not to mention that in the US, the worst that can happen is D, large debt, and in very rare cases jail times or fines (only 6-7 states still legally consider it a crime), but in parts of the ME, it can mean death. Death becomes a very big motivator not to cheat.)


I agree with most of what you say. Certain places in the world have more leniant attitudes towards sex overall. But even in Amsterdam, cheating is cheating. 

I just wanted to point out that your just as likely to be cheated on by a person born and raised in the west then you are someone born and raised in an asian country. In this particular case, it wasn't more likely to happen because the wife was of Japanese decent. 

/threadjack


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

sinnister said:


> I agree with most of what you say. Certain places in the world have more leniant attitudes towards sex overall. But even in Amsterdam, cheating is cheating.
> 
> /threadjack


I agree, but when one considers it cheating is a gray line. Within the red light district, not always considered as such, just a service rendered but same thing outside of the RLD, cheating.

If you have never been to the East, sex is viewed differently. They have clubs that one can go into and have sex openly on a stage with girls employed by the club for all to see (you do not pay for the sex, but are chosen based upon a lottery/ gaming sort of system where the winner gets to perform on stage). The audience is the entertainment in these establishments. I was there (while single and on a tour over there in the military) and really surprised when a local tour bus group brought in about 35 60-70 year old women as a tour stop. They all watched intently, cheered, and had a great time like anyone else ini the audience. One of the locals told me this is a routine normal stop on the tour and an accepted practice within the culture and not frowned upon like it is in for most of the Western culture. It definitely was an eye opener.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I think telling her mother/family that she cheated on you is not kicking her while she is down.

I consider it giving her a kick in the @ss where she needs it most.

I also think it clears up the issue of why you left and in the end will make your MIL feel better knowing you are not a louse.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Squeakr said:


> I agree, but when one considers it cheating is a gray line. Within the red light district, not always considered as such, just a service rendered but same thing outside of the RLD, cheating.
> 
> If you have never been to the East, sex is viewed differently. They have clubs that one can go into and have sex openly on a stage with girls employed by the club for all to see (you do not pay for the sex, but are chosen based upon a lottery/ gaming sort of system where the winner gets to perform on stage). The audience is the entertainment in these establishments. I was there (while single and on a tour over there in the military) and really surprised when a local tour bus group brought in about 35 60-70 year old women as a tour stop. They all watched intently, cheered, and had a great time like anyone else ini the audience. One of the locals told me this is a routine normal stop on the tour and an accepted practice within the culture and not frowned upon like it is in for most of the Western culture. It definitely was an eye opener.


That is an eyeopener. But again, the wife of the guy engaging in that act would most certainly still consider that cheating and not just "entertainment". Yes other countries have more liberals views of sex, but it doesn't mean they more readily accept cheating. The two are mutually exclusive.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

sinnister said:


> That is an eyeopener. But again, the wife of the guy engaging in that act would most certainly still consider that cheating and not just "entertainment". Yes other countries have more liberals views of sex, but it doesn't mean they more readily accept cheating. The two are mutually exclusive.


That was the point of the examples. When the act occurs within those tupes of predefined settings the wife does not view it as cheating but entertainment. I don't know why but that is what I was told by several locals. The best I could get was that since they have been indoctrinated to behave that way, it is considered acceptable. It was the same in the Korean and Hong Kong bar scenes. My guess would be that since people have grown up in that environment and it is a commonly accepted practice that it was not viewed as wrong or cheating. I know in lots of the Asian cultures I was in the women were considered more subservient and I guess that is why the views were different. They were taught to please the man and out all of his needs, wants, and desires first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

AlphaProvider said:


> Sounds alot like one of those "Russian Bride" style of marriages, or one where a lady comes to the States to get her green card. Confused hubby doesn't understand why she can be so cold after she meets her objective, keeps reaching for "love" when there was none to begin with.


It wasn't a "Russian Bride" type thing at all. Just because she was foreign, doesn't automatically mean I got her off the internet or she needed a green card. 

She'd already been living in England for years before I met her. We were then going out for about 4 years before we got married. If she'd shown signs of being awful during that time I wouldn't have married her. 

I would have preferred that she was an internet bride, because at least then I would have expected this might happen and it wouldn't have been as painful as it is now.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Stop with the stereotyping!! Man's wife cheated. Sheesh!!

Yes, expose her. I did not expose to my husband's family and now I am sorry I didn't.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Has she signed the divorce papers? If she has not signed them, you may need to tell her family. You do need to be free to move on with your life.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

I've got the papers in an envelope waiting to go back to her this weekend. She still needs to sign. I told her they'll be with her soon and she was fine with it. She got the house and has accepted I'm not coming back and hasn't put much effort into trying to convince me otherwise, , so I'm not expecting any problems.

The only card I have to play if she tries to cause problems for me is to threaten to tell her family, so I don't really want to expose her before we're divorced. And after we're divorced, I don't really see the point; I'll be moving on with my life. Even if I told her mum she cheated, she could just say she cheated because I did, or I was abusive etc.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

Rugs said:


> Stop with the stereotyping!! Man's wife cheated. Sheesh!!
> 
> Yes, expose her. I did not expose to my husband's family and now I am sorry I didn't.


Rugs, what did you regret about not saying anything to your husband's family?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

AlphaHalf said:


> The younger generation is changing and those notions are not like it use to be. I spent a few years in Japan and trust me the women and men cheat like the rest of the world. Love Hotels in Japan are a booming business.


I agree. What is wrong is the idea that being Western somehow makes us more moral than other cultures. Not proven at all. Infidelity exists in all cultures and races and is almost universally execrated.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> I agree, but when one considers it cheating is a gray line. Within the red light district, not always considered as such, just a service rendered but same thing outside of the RLD, cheating.
> 
> If you have never been to the East, sex is viewed differently. They have clubs that one can go into and have sex openly on a stage with girls employed by the club for all to see (you do not pay for the sex, but are chosen based upon a lottery/ gaming sort of system where the winner gets to perform on stage). The audience is the entertainment in these establishments. I was there (while single and on a tour over there in the military) and really surprised when a local tour bus group brought in about 35 60-70 year old women as a tour stop. They all watched intently, cheered, and had a great time like anyone else ini the audience. One of the locals told me this is a routine normal stop on the tour and an accepted practice within the culture and not frowned upon like it is in for most of the Western culture. It definitely was an eye opener.


Marital fidelity has zero to do with this sort of behavior. I have been in the East too, many, many, times, and have found that infidelity is not excused in any culture I've visited. Japan, Vietnam, China or Singapore or other. 
Also equating what happens in a redlight district, to what happens in the general populace is ridiculous. Yes, there is a sex industry in every country . So what? It makes no difference to the morality of the general populace. Also, FYI we have clubs HERE in the Good Old U.S.A where you can have public sex as well. This isn't an oriental invention, by any means. Sorry for the T/J.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I am sorry, you are here.

In this meantime, did you get yourself for any STD?

I think you have got so much emotionally detached from your wife.

Was it her plan to move back to Japan with the intention to get rid of you?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Marital fidelity has zero to do with this sort of behavior. I have been in the East too, many, many, times, and have found that infidelity is not excused in any culture I've visited. Japan, Vietnam, China or Singapore or other.
> Also equating what happens in a redlight district, to what happens in the general populace is ridiculous. Yes, there is a sex industry in every country . So what? It makes no difference to the morality of the general populace. Also, FYI we have clubs HERE in the Good Old U.S.A where you can have public sex as well. This isn't an oriental invention, by any means. Sorry for the T/J.


I think you misunderstood. I never said anything about infidelity not existing in other cultures, just was giving examples that because one has sex with someone other than their partner, it is not always considered infidelity in other cultures. What is considered infidelity is not the same from culture to culture. Just because we view it as such does not mean the others share our opinions and viewpoints. 

It does make a difference to the morality, as in other cultures where it is an acceptable occupation, it is not viewed as negatively. Countries that have completely outlaw the sex trade, are not tolerant of its participants. Countries that allow it are, when it is done according to the law. This tolerance is part of the societal morality.

As for the clubs in the US where people can go and have public sex, yes they exist and I never stated that the Asians had invented this sort of thing. The clubs here are nothing like those over seas where the club owners supply the working girls providing the service and it costs nothing to the person receiving the service (in these Japanese clubs there was no charge associated with the sex and the girls are not forced into these as slaves, just throwing it out there before someone says that is what they are, they are paid working girls).


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

AngryandUsed said:


> I am sorry, you are here.
> 
> In this meantime, did you get yourself for any STD?
> 
> ...


Yeah, I got tested as soon as I got back to England. An absolute low point. 

If her plan was to get rid of me by going back to Japan, it made no sense because she prepared, signed and paid for all my visa forms and had a taxi waiting for me at the airport.

When I was over there and saw she wasn't happy, I asked her point blank if she would wanted to be married any more and if not, just say and I'd return home with no hard feelings because I'd never want to be someone who didn't want to be with me. Instead she just lied to my face and I had to find out for myself what was going on.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

It's very possible she didn't planned or went for it.
How much time did you spend separated?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She wanted you and she wanted her lover. 

Not happening.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Now I'm confused, I am sure I saw in a tv documentary that extramarital sex was ok as long as it had nothing to do with love. They may have been talking about men but who would the men be having relations with.?


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

Acabado said:


> It's very possible she didn't planned or went for it.
> How much time did you spend separated?


I think we were separated for about a year that time. I don't think it's any real excuse though. I didn't have any trouble with not cheating during that time.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She wanted you and she wanted her lover.
> 
> Not happening.


How I caught her for definite was finding a diary that had a list of each of our good points for comparison, so it looked like she was struggling to make up her mind. I made the decision for her in the end.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

How are you, DtD, emotionally?
How did you react when you found out? 
What was her reaction?

So, I guess, in the one year of separation, she went away and eloped her OM? You had no clue until you reached Japan?


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

AngryandUsed said:


> How are you, DtD, emotionally?
> How did you react when you found out?
> What was her reaction?
> 
> So, I guess, in the one year of separation, she went away and eloped her OM? You had no clue until you reached Japan?


Emotionally, I'm holding up OK, thanks. Some days were a struggle. It wasn't just because I'd lost my wife; I'd also lost my home, my job, my friends, everything really. Things are slowly getting better though. I'm working now and spending more time on my hobbies and with friends in England.

I don't miss my wife at all, but I do miss the person I thought she was. But that just seems like a dream now. To my actual wife, I now only feel a terrible anger towards her. She just makes me sick to my stomach really and at this time I don't really care to speak to her ever again. Her selfish actions wrecked my whole life and made me a much more cynical and harder person.

My reaction at the time was one of calm. It was a combination of things really, part shock, part not wanting her to see how much it hurt and part because I was worried about what I'd do if I lost my temper. So I didn't cry, I didn't shout, didn't go find the other guy, break anything etc. All I could think was she'd ruined everything. I simply told her that I don't trust her any longer so we're done and packed my stuff and went home a few days later. She cried a lot, but didn't really try and defend her actions. We'd been together for long enough, so she knew I wouldn't change my mind. Ten years down the drain because she's a weak, cheating POS.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Downthedrain said:


> *My reaction at the time was one of calm. It was a combination of things really, part shock, part not wanting her to see how much it hurt and part because I was worried about what I'd do if I lost my temper. So I didn't cry, I didn't shout, didn't go find the other guy, break anything etc.* All I could think was she'd ruined everything. I simply told her that I don't trust her any longer so we're done and packed my stuff and went home a few days later. She cried a lot, but didn't really try and defend her actions. We'd been together for long enough, so she knew I wouldn't change my mind. Ten years down the drain because she's a weak, cheating POS.


British "stiff upper lip". You English would be a much healthier people if you would let that anger out once in a while. 

We Scandinavians are the same way to an extent. I enjoy being an American now because I can yell, throw a fit, scream and cry and no one tries to shush me or knock me down a peg for it.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

LostViking said:


> British "stiff upper lip". You English would be a much healthier people if you would let that anger out once in a while.
> 
> We Scandinavians are the same way to an extent. I enjoy being an American now because I can yell, throw a fit, scream and cry and no one tries to shush me or knock me down a peg for it.


lol I know what you mean. I probably need to go down to the woods and scream. I just hope my next place has room for a punch bag.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

DTD, you need a good Brummie girl, I think.:smthumbup:


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

When Brits do let go of their anger it is really a sight to behold. It is like a dam holding back a huge reservoir. The anger just pours out and pours out and gets stronger and stronger as it goes. It is funny and scary at the same time.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> DTD, you need a good Brummie girl, I think.:smthumbup:


lol, i'm from the softie south, so that would be quite a strong accent for me.


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

LostViking said:


> When Brits do let go of their anger it is really a sight to behold. It is like a dam holding back a huge reservoir. The anger just pours out and pours out and gets stronger and stronger as it goes. It is funny and scary at the same time.


I agree it can be hilarious when watching from a safe distance. My Dad was one of the angriest dudes I've ever met but I'm the complete opposite.

It's been so long since I've properly lost my temper, I really would be worried about letting it all out, especially after my wife's escapades. I'd probably wake up covered in blood and surrounded by bodies.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Downthedrain said:


> lol, i'm from the softie south, so that would be quite a strong accent for me.


Ah. When I take my South West wife to see my relatives in Brum, I have to translate for her. And I'm not joking!

But if a girl has a Bruimmie accent it gives me goosebumps! :smthumbup:


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Ah. When I take my South West wife to see my relatives in Brum, I have to translate for her. And I'm not joking!
> 
> But if a girl has a Bruimmie accent it gives me goosebumps! :smthumbup:


Lol! I've always been a sucker for a Scottish accent myself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Downthedrain said:


> Lol! I've always been a sucker for a Scottish accent myself.


Oooh! Like Clare Grogan??? Clare Grogan - Image 9 of 18 :smthumbup:


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## Downthedrain (Jul 6, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Oooh! Like Clare Grogan??? Clare Grogan - Image 9 of 18 :smthumbup:


Haha, I had to google her. Didn't know who she was. I remember my mum watching Gregory's Girl. 

I'm not a fan of Dr Who, but i was a fan of Karen Gillan.


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