# Just caught my wife cheating.. Not sure what to do



## Gramon

Just caught my wife cheating this week. Been going on for a while. This is the second time in the last year.
She denied it for a month but I caught her with tracking device which she is so mad about.
She is trying to make every part of my life a living hell but she refuses to talk about the marriage, the affair, divorce or anything else.
I have three children and I don't know what to do.


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## SecondTime'Round

Gramon said:


> Just caught my wife cheating this week. Been going on for a while. This is the second time in the last year.
> She denied it for a month but I caught her with tracking device which she is so mad about.
> She is trying to make every part of my life a living hell but she refuses to talk about the marriage, the affair, divorce or anything else.
> I have three children and I don't know what to do.


You file for divorce. It doesn't mean you have to go through with it, but you file. If you have any desire to save your marriage, she needs to be shocked back into reality.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Please answer a few questions
Ages?
Length of marriage?
Infidelity on your part?

Some people will come with better advice, but 2 times in a year.....time to go


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## RayJakeman

Document it all-everything email, texts,where and when,who (get a photograph) and put in a place where its safe (not in home).Change passwords now on all joint accounts and check credit cards carefully. See if kids can stay somewhere while you get info out of her (through all the screaming and shouting --and blaming of you of course!)


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## IDsrvBetr

The best immediate advice I can tell you based on my recent experience is DON'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT NOW. Get yourself away from the situation and talk to someone before you do or say anything about this. Trust me, no matter how good of an idea you think is in your head at the time, it probably isn't. You need a trustworthy, knowledgable OBJECTIVE voice of reason to guide your every action and word in the near future. 

That thought or idea you have in your head right now of how you are going to take care of this or fix this or whatever...is probably wrong. DON'T TRUST YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT. If you can find someone, ALWAYS run your thoughts and ideas past them first. 

Trust me, you cannot fix this on your own, you will only make it worse. Odds are anything you say or do on your own is probably going to make things worse for you.

If you can, try to find a counselor, pastor or someone else you are comfortable with immediately. Talk to them BEFORE you do or say anything. ALWAYS. That's not just for now, that is for the near future because it isn't going to get any easier. Sorry.


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## arbitrator

Gramon said:


> Just caught my wife cheating this week. Been going on for a while. This is the second time in the last year.
> She denied it for a month but I caught her with tracking device which she is so mad about.
> She is trying to make every part of my life a living hell but she refuses to talk about the marriage, the affair, divorce or anything else.
> I have three children and I don't know what to do.


*Gramon: From a surveillance standpoint, it greatly appears that you have literally nailed her "titz" to the wall, with her escapades having been going on for quite a while now! Like hearing it or not, you are little more than her "Plan B!"

I don't really feel that there is any justifying redemption to this relationship to ever be had! Ergo ~ I really think that an immediate adoption of "the 180" is in order, along with well planned excursions to your lawyer's office to explore your legal rights, a trip to your MD to assess if you have subsequently contracted an STD from her. And an assessment of if the POSOM is married, that you need to blow the absolute cover off this illicit relationship by revealing "your hand of cards" to his wife ~ after all, why does she need to be left in the dark about it?

Welcome to TAM! Sorry to see you here, but you're among friends here!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snerg

Gramon said:


> Just caught my wife cheating this week. Been going on for a while. This is the *second* time in the last year.
> 
> I have three children and I don't know what to do.


Easy:
1) Lawyer - start finding out your rights and how to proceed
2) finances - start to separate them like yesterday
3) Doctor to see if you received a STD
4) 180 - start to detach from her
5) kids - be the best parent you can be during this time
6) EAT well - no reason to punish your body for what she did
7) drink water - stay off booze - again, no need to dehydrate due to her actions
8) sleep - make sure to get as much as you can
9) counseling - go find a counselor. therapist to help you - look for one that can also help your kids

Start divorce


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## GusPolinski

Gramon said:


> Just caught my wife cheating this week. Been going on for a while. This is the second time in the last year.
> She denied it for a month but I caught her with tracking device which she is so mad about.
> She is trying to make every part of my life a living hell but she refuses to talk about the marriage, the affair, divorce or anything else.
> I have three children and I don't know what to do.


File for divorce and DNA your kids.


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## inhope

DO NOT go looking for a fight or try to exact revenge on the OM or your wife for that matter. Ending up on charges for violence or domestic abuse is the last thing you want or need right now.
You need to be seen as the injured party. 
Being some violent, aggressive guy will not look good if you need to get custody of your kids in court.

Be the clever one here, consult the experts, know your rights and do what is best for you and your kids.


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## bandit.45

File for divorce. Hire the meanest attorney you can find.


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## Gramon

Kids are eleven thirteen and twenty three. I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of. I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. She is so mad over the tracker.


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## manfromlamancha

First, sorry to have you here. Second, this is over - go for the marital jugular so to speak.

Third, more info please as requested. Ages, children, history of cheating, with who, where, how did you handle it in the past, etc etc


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## convert

Gramon said:


> Kids are eleven thirteen and twenty three. I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of. I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. *She is so mad over the tracker.*


from now on never reveal you sources of how you knew or found out. 
if you have to say anything about how you found out you can also misdirect/lie, say a friend saw you, or you had a PI


The only thing I can say about her being mad about the tracker is you just say "you [email protected] another man, Shut the [email protected] up"


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## SadSamIAm

Gramon said:


> Kids are eleven thirteen and twenty three. I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of. I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. She is so mad over the tracker.



Your kids are old enough to know what is going on. Tell them what you found out about their mother.

Tell her parents what you have found. Tell your parents what you have found. You need support and she needs consequences.

Tell his family (wife, girlfriend, parents, etc.) if you have the information. 

Talk to a lawyer and get divorce papers drawn up. Don't talk to her about the tracker. The sooner she sees the papers the faster she will realize you aren't putting up with infidelity.

Close all joint accounts. If you can't close them, then withdraw everything you have in them. Get your name off of any of her credit cards. 

This is her second affair. You screwed up the last time by not taking action. If you don't take action this time, it will happen again.


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## RWB

She cheats again after being caught the 1st time. How many affairs did you not catch? There is always more. Non-remorseful Serial Cheater confirmed.

2 words, Lawyer Up.


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## GusPolinski

Gramon said:


> Kids are eleven thirteen and twenty three. I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of. I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. She is so mad over the tracker.



Well there you go... no remorse, only entitlement. Tells you pretty much everything that you need to know.

File for divorce ASAP.

Oh, and if her affair partner is married, expose the affair to his wife. She deserves to know that she's been sharing her husband w/ another woman.


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## jsmart

If you look at the threads on TAM, SI, and LS, you will see that men who move fast with strength and dignity have wives begging to fix marriage. Husbands that beg, rug sweep, and try to nice their wives continue to get played and get left. Once a woman has had another man in her, she's going to be disgusted by her husband, especially if he's weak and needy. Doesn't matter all of the good years or the kids stability. They will rewrite marital history and tell you, she's never loved you, and new guy is her soul mate. I've read it a thousand times.

Unremorseful serial cheater should equal straight to D.
Doesn't mean you can stop it towards the end if she's working hard to save marriage or better yet, you can remarry if she's able to earn your love. But now you need to coldly go shock and awe.

expose to her family & friends.
expose to POS
File D with infidelity as reason.
separate finances.
focus on being best dad possible.
work on yourself. Hit the gym, get yourself looking good.
Don't beg her, follow her around, talk about problems. 
180 time. Only talk about kids and necessary decisions about home.
You stay in marital bed. Let her sleep on couch.


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## southernsurf

She refuses to talk because she doesn’t think you will do anything, she sees you as weak. She lost respect for you. You need to take control. This is classic cake-eater stuff, they all follow the same script but think they are cleaver and different. Trust me she doesn’t want to give up the easy life, so take action. DAY 1 STEP1: tell her she has to move out while you think about things and sort some stuff out – no contact. Help her pack her closet if she won’t budge. STEP 2 do a 180 and work on you and only you. STEP 3 consult with a lawyer and get all the facts. STEP 4: observe her behavior no contact continue 180, work on you and observe. Not saying D at this time but you have to show her you mean business and not let her walk all over you……..Good luck keep posting


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## hookares

Soul mate?
My ex was changing those out once a month after we split.
Dump her!


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## jorgegene

She's mad about the tracker because that's how she was caught, and she didn't like being caught.
Don't feel or show the slightest remorse about that. She deserved to be tracked and caught.
If I rob a liquor store and get recorded by the eye cam, should I be peed at the guys that installed it, or the 
liquor store owner? I guess so.

she's throwing a tantrum. shows her character.


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## drifting on

I'm sure your mind is going a mile a minute, you have found out, now breathe for a moment. This is her second time that you know of, so start thinking about your course of action. You don't have to decide at this very moment. However, this is her second time so start the process of protecting yourself.

Separate finances, see a lawyer for your options, find out if you are in an "at fault" state. Document all your proof, make three copies, hide all three separately. Start the 180 to detach and only speak to her about the kids. 

For now you are in shock, brace yourself, the ride you just embarked on is rough. Get a support system for yourself now. Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## commonsenseisn't

There is only one appropriate response to a blame shifting serial cheater: a swift and decisive divorce. This is absolute and non negotiable. 

The only real challenge here is you coming to a comprehension of this truth. 

Don't beat yourself up too badly though, because we all had to go through the process to understand this doctrine.

Good luck. 

btw, get a shark lawyer.


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## J3st3r

She is mad she got caught, from what you wrote she is showing no remorse. She doesn't respect you as a husband or father. Do yourself a favor and divorce her. She will respect you more for standing up for yourself, and you will respect yourself more also.


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## GusPolinski

Gramon said:


> Just caught my wife cheating this week. Been going on for a while. This is the second time in the last year.
> She denied it for a month but I caught her with tracking device which she is so mad about.
> She is trying to make every part of my life a living hell but she refuses to talk about the marriage, the affair, divorce or anything else.
> I have three children and I don't know what to do.





Gramon said:


> Kids are eleven thirteen and twenty three. I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of. I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. She is so mad over the tracker.


Both her anger and her unwillingness to discuss anything w/ you imply that she's been at this for some time. Additionally, she may have been planning to file for divorce herself.

Get a VAR and _keep it on your person *at ALL times*._ Any time she starts to engage, you turn it on and start recording. Let her see you do it. That should diffuse any attempts at calling the cops claiming that you've been abusive or whatever.

Either way, the real reason that she's not talking is because you busted up both her fun and her plans, and now she's scrambling to recover. _Keep her on the ropes._

File for divorce and implement a solid 180. Be a good father. Be there for your children. Assure them that the impending disruption of their home (obviously find a different way to state it) is in NO WAY their fault.

Eat. Sleep. Stay hydrated. If you're having trouble sleeping or staying focused at work, speak w/ your doc about possibly getting some prescription sleep aids or AD meds.

Aside from that, spend any free time lifting weights, walking, jogging, running, riding a bike, or whatever. Stay away from the bottle, as that will just make things worse.


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## Devastated an lost

Sorry you're here, but you've come to a good place. You've already gotten lots of good advice. If she won't even talk to you about what she's done & is shifting the blame by getting mad about the tracker. That says a lot. She plans to keep doing what she wants & how dare you interfere. Is this the kind of person you really want to spend your life with.

It's a shock when the person you Love & trust gets backed against the wall & shows you who they really are. Step back take a deep breath & look at what she's showing you. Then decide what you want here. Her actions will show you all you need to know. I hope things work out the way you hope. Good luck, Wishing you the best..


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## toonaive

Gramon said:


> Kids are eleven thirteen and twenty three. I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of. I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. She is so mad over the tracker.


Of course she is. She thinks of it as invading her privacy. You did it to prove she was cheating again. See the circular logic of this argument?
She is a serial cheater, and you cannot trust anything she ever says. Time for solid consequences. Divorce her.


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## Graywolf2

Gramon said:


> I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of. I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. She is so mad over the tracker.


Wow it’s all about her. The world is so unfair. It’s so unfair that she’s caught. You didn’t play by the rules so you suck. No objectivity whatsoever. Your wife is like a child throwing a tantrum. Divorce her ASAP.


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## badmemory

Gramon said:


> I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. She is so mad over the tracker.


Knowing you for as long as she has, it's obvious she thinks this is the best strategy for her to avoid consequences. She's hoping to rely on your desperation and fear of divorce. That's a very common manipulation method for a WS - until they discover it won't work.

Implement the 180 to detach from her and start the ball rolling on the divorce. Maybe she'll turn around or maybe not. If she doesn't, don't stop until the D is final.

If you think she is turning around; check back with us first before you consider R.


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## 6301

Look friend. You gave her a chance when she did it the first time and it got you nowhere except a second affair so stop looking for reasons to keep her but reasons to get rid of her. Start with 2 affairs. That should be enough.

As far as her being mad? Too bad. Maybe if she would have kept her pants up, knees together and acted like a wife she wouldn't be in this position.

Get a lawyer, file and get her out of your life. The way things are now, you can bet the house that she's going to do everything she can to blame you for it so spread the word to friends and family so they know why your divorcing.


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## OldWolf57

Sorry you are here bro, but you are in the right place.

A couple of things to concentrate on RIGHT NOW,, 1= your health, 2=your kids.
So don't even speak to her right now unless it's something to do with your kids,

Right now you may THINK we don't know what we are talking about, but these people actually really do.
Make your health and kids your focus until you have read more here, and gotten a plan together.

1. move your evidence off site, with any copies.
2. DO NOT even say hello or good morning to her. Let her start to worrying now.
3. Get a VAR NOW, and keep it on you anytime you are around her.
4 Expose the A to family and friends, being sure to mention this is the second time THIS year, and not a continuations of the first one.
5. Gather as much info on the POS as you can, and expose him also..

These people will help, but you must be willing to listen, if not, check Todi's latest thread of the the last straw, from the other day.
He didn't listen, but was man enough to come back and admit these people was right.

Now, a little about your wife.
As of right now, she is disgusted with you. She is mad because she really never thought you had it in you to actually be man enough to check on her enough and risk losing her and the kids.
Why was she feeling this way ??? YOU RUG SWEPT it the first time !! 
Therefore she lost all respect for you.

Now with you not even speaking to her, the kids will notice. So when asked, just say you and mom are getting a divorce.
You do this and tell them mom did something really bad that you can't and won't forgive her for. 

You are now taking back your dignity and self/respect my man, and showing her that you will NOT be begging her to stay with, or even talk to you.
You show her action, not a wimpy, weeping ****.

You see, she actually think you don't have the balls after letting her off last time
So let her keep her anger going. Back off and get to work on your exit plan.
You put the ball in her court.

OH, and the next time she mention tracking her to catch her. Reply,, "you have to do sleazy things to catch sleazy people", and walk away.
What else would you call a mother that screws around ??


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## OldWolf57

When someone SHOWS you who they really are, believe them !!!


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## ArmyofJuan

You officially have a serial cheater on your hands and if you do anything short of filing for a divorce she WILL cheat again. 

She does not respect you and in her mind you deserve to be cheated on for whatever reason. Until she respects you she has all the control and will walk all over you.

The only way to get back your respect is to reject her, stand up for yourself and prove to her you don't need her. The person that cares the least about the relationship, controls it. You have to be able to walk away from her in order for anything to change.

That being said it looks like you shouldn't waste your time trying to save this, you won't be doing your children any favors staying in a loveless marriage with constant cheating. They will think that's normal and have dysfunctional relationships themselves when they get older.


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## jb02157

So sorry to hear about this. It's like I've been trying to say on this site for so long, once women have a few kids they think there are able to get away with this sort of thing because they know if you get a divorce now, she will get your money, your house and your family. Chances are you won't want to give all that away, nor should you, so you are stuck with her or have to find a way to live on 30% of what you make now and see your kids on every other weekend. Marriage is an extremely bad deal, especially for men with multiple kids. There's really no way out. I've been battling a bad marriage for years now and want to leave more than I can tell you but feel trapped. Women will tell you to get a divorce, sure, it's just that easy for them. They get money from you no matter what happens.


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## planecrazy

jb02157 said:


> So sorry to hear about this. It's like I've been trying to say on this site for so long, once women have a few kids they think there are able to get away with this sort of thing because they know if you get a divorce now, she will get your money, your house and your family. Chances are you won't want to give all that away, nor should you, so you are stuck with her or have to find a way to live on 30% of what you make now and see your kids on every other weekend. Marriage is an extremely bad deal, especially for men with multiple kids. There's really no way out. I've been battling a bad marriage for years now and want to leave more than I can tell you but feel trapped. Women will tell you to get a divorce, sure, it's just that easy for them. They get money from you no matter what happens.


Well put
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

Gramon said:


> I don't understand her refusal to talk.


Luckily....you don't need her to do this in order to do what you need to do for yourself and your family.

File for D ASAP.

Traitorous cheats do not deserve their M's or their families....teach her this lesson in no uncertain terms.


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## Yeswecan

Gramon said:


> Kids are eleven thirteen and twenty three. I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of. I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. *She is so mad over the tracker.*


She has cheated before and is upset over a tracker?


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## Gramon

Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce. I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, don't know yet if he is married
I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


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## happyman64

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce. I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, don't know yet if he is married
> I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


Gramon

Then your only course of action is to sit your wife down and get her to tell you the truth.

Her Affairs are a symptom of larger issues.

What are her issues? Not yours?. Hers....

You need her to tell you if she is planning on leaving the marriage.

But her sitting on the fence and leaving you hanging is not fair, nice or mature.

Get your answers so you know what direction to proceed in.

ANd I think it is pretty clear what direction your wife wants to go in.

If you know who the OM is why have you not packer her bags and brought them over to his house to drop them on his front door with a note "You can have her. I no longer want her".

That might get the ball rolling in an honest conversation.

Now get packing.

HM


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## convert

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce. I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, *don't know yet if he is married*
> I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


Well hell,

the first thing then is to find out if OM has a wife or girlfriend.

Exposure to everyone:
her family
your family
and if OM has a wife and girl friend them too (first as a matter of fact)

Exposure can be the ultimate tool for helping to stop the affair.


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## truster

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce. I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, don't know yet if he is married
> I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


Check the alimony/asset laws in your state and see if adultery renders them null and void. If so, consider talking to a lawyer, getting court-approved evidence (don't confront until you have it!), and kicking her to the curb without a safety net.

Custody will be harder, though, but you may be able to do better for them as a happy single man than a beaten down husband. Worth thinking about.


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## truster

Yeswecan said:


> She has cheated before and is upset over a tracker?


Welcome to the mind of a cheater. How dare you catch me, WHERE IS THE TRUST?? What's so sad is, that is not even a comical exaggeration of their position.


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## GusPolinski

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce. I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, don't know yet if he is married
> I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


The bottom line is that _you cannot save your marriage alone_, and everything that you've described w/ respect to your wife's behavior would seem to indicate that she's not at all interested in doing so herself.

If anything will bring her to her senses, it's the threat of an impending divorce.


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## toonaive

truster said:


> Check the alimony/asset laws in your state and see if adultery renders them null and void. If so, consider talking to a lawyer, getting court-approved evidence (don't confront until you have it!), and kicking her to the curb without a safety net.
> 
> Custody will be harder, though, but you may be able to do better for them as a happy single man than a beaten down husband. Worth thinking about.


Yup! I got my wife on adultery. Alimony completely out. She might not want the kids. Mine didn't. I even walked away with my business. Dont get stuck in the what if. Really spend the time checking out the laws, and consult with a few lawyers. She is betting on your unwillingness to do anything. She has things she will loose as well in a divorce. Your strength will be getting the information you need.


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## commonsenseisn't

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


Gramon, you don't get it. How can you lose the family if it's already lost? She lost it. Face this reality or you are doomed to be sucked into "limbo hell". You are letting your inability to accept reality pull you into a terrible place many of us have been. 

The sooner you can wrap your mind and heart around your reality the sooner you will be able to salvage your self respect and move on. 

Many of us have been there and done that. Experience is speaking to you and can empower you if only you can embrace it. Good luck.


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## Buddy400

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if* I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce. *I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, don't know yet if he is married
> I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


You have two choices, allow her to fvck other men and remain married.

Or, realize that the family is already lost and save as much of it as you can. File for divorce. Start the 180. This will allow you to keep your self respect (and that of the kids). There's an outside chance that she'll see the new you and come around (but don't plan on it). If the OM is rich maybe, if you get out while she's in the fog, you'll be able to save on alimony.


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## TRy

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce.


 Sorry to say this to you, but you need to come to grips with the fact that what you want no longer matters to her. You need to plan your life accordingly. She has lost her moral compass, do not let her be your guide.


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## Gramon

Yeah the whole tracker thing is pretty amusing. the whole neighborhood could hear her screaming how dare you invade my privacy like this. funny thing iis we have had no issues to argue or fight about in the last year. we went on multiple fam vacations, weekly trips to the lake all appearing as a happy healthy family. the last affair went over quickly once i busted her, she seemed like she was trying real hard but refused counseling. i would have never caught her this time were in not for her putting locks on all the devices about three months ago. i didnt do anything i just observed. this time she shows no remorse only anger. i should probaably just get the papers. i spoiled her into the diva she is. when i confronted her with the evidence i gave her several days to just tell the truth before i showed her and she just denied and said i was crazy. when i gave her the evidence and told her we should talk about a course of action specifically with the kids and the business. all she had to say was you just want to ruin my job, and all you can get is half. she could be with me and him in the same day and never miss a beat. im very discouraged and still unsure what to do


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## badmemory

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce.


Gramon,

If you take divorce off the table, she's got you by the [email protected] and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, other than take it.

If you've calculated that staying married to this non-remorseful serial cheater is the better option than leaving her; more power to you. You'll likely regret it, but it's your life.


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## Chaparral

snerg said:


> Easy:
> 1) Lawyer - start finding out your rights and how to proceed
> 2) finances - start to separate them like yesterday
> 3) Doctor to see if you received a STD
> 4) 180 - start to detach from her
> 5) kids - be the best parent you can be during this time
> 6) EAT well - no reason to punish your body for what she did
> 7) drink water - stay off booze - again, no need to dehydrate due to her actions
> 8) sleep - make sure to get as much as you can
> 9) counseling - go find a counselor. therapist to help you - look for one that can also help your kids
> 
> Start divorce





Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce. I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, don't know yet if he is married
> I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


Then you're totally f:cked. You might as well put up a sign saying free p:ssy.

If this is a different man, she's a serial cheater and that cant be fixed 98% of the time. If its the same man the first affair never ended.

You have to go shock and awe to make her get some help.

What did you do when you caught her the first time?

Contact the families of both affair partners.

Trying to just fix this has a zero chance of working.


----------



## Marduk

Gramon said:


> Kids are eleven thirteen and twenty three. I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of. I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. She is so mad over the tracker.


You need to understand that she is not the person you married. Not right now anyway. 

She was living a delusion. Her identity was built on it. And you just upended the whole deal. She is fighting for her identity. 

Don't fight. Shut your mouth and go dark. Keep the kids safe and secure and away from trauma. Talk to buddies. 

Go and see a lawyer. This week. Protect your family's financial interests - your wife won't. 

And as a serial cheater, I'd say reconciliation is off the table. 

In short, stop talking to her about anything but logistics about the kids, take care of the kids and yourself, and see a lawyer. 

Oh, and I'm so sorry man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce. I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, don't know yet if he is married
> I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


It sucks, but you're in a fork in the road. 

1. Divorce her and take the financial beating. Rebuild and it will be all yours. Move the hell forward in your life. 

2. Move to an open marriage if you can stomach it. She's a serial cheater, she's not going to stop with this one. You might as well get some fun on the side, too. 

3. Try to live with her having flings... For the rest of your life. Know that she'll likely leave you for one of them one day, and some other schmuck is going to get 50c of every dollar you make from now until then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carmen ohio

Gramon said:


> *Just caught my wife cheating this week. Been going on for a while. This is the second time in the last year.*
> She denied it for a month but I caught her with tracking device which she is so mad about.
> *She is trying to make every part of my life a living hell* but she refuses to talk about the marriage, the affair, divorce or anything else.
> I have three children and I don't know what to do.





Gramon said:


> Kids are eleven thirteen and twenty three. *I have never cheated but this is her second time that I know of.* I don't understand her refusal to talk. She will however fight. She is so mad over the tracker.





Gramon said:


> Yeah the whole tracker thing is pretty amusing. the whole neighborhood could hear her screaming how dare you invade my privacy like this. funny thing iis we have had no issues to argue or fight about in the last year. we went on multiple fam vacations, weekly trips to the lake all appearing as a happy healthy family. the last affair went over quickly once i busted her, she seemed like she was trying real hard but refused counseling. i would have never caught her this time were in not for her putting locks on all the devices about three months ago. i didnt do anything i just observed. *this time she shows no remorse only anger.* i should probaably just get the papers. i spoiled her into the diva she is. when i confronted her with the evidence i gave her several days to just tell the truth before i showed her and she just denied and said i was crazy. when i gave her the evidence and told her we should talk about a course of action specifically with the kids and the business. all she had to say was you just want to ruin my job, and all you can get is half. she could be with me and him in the same day and never miss a beat. *im very discouraged and still unsure what to do*


Gramon, what exactly are you unsure about?



Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if *I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce.* I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, don't know yet if he is married
> I am having trouble coming to terms, *I'm logical* but having great difficulty


As someone else pointed out, it's not about what you want, it's about making the best of a very bad situation.

You claim you are "logical." Well then, stop feeling sorry for yourself and start acting logically. You are getting good advice her, start implementing it.

The more often I read your posts, the more I think you're inability to reason or act is due to fear. Fear of losing your comfortable life, fear of what she will do, fear of what people will think. While understandable, you must realize that the longer you let fear paralyze you, the less control you will have -- and the more control she will have -- over the outcome of all this.

You don't have to do every right or right away, but you need to do something. If you can't manage anything else, start by limiting your interactions with her to only that necessary for the well-being of your children (the so-called _'180'_). By beginning to detach from her, you will gain perspective and the next steps (exposing what she's done, talking to a lawyer, etc.) will become easier.

Good luck.


----------



## toonaive

Forgot to tell you. Not every attorney is cut out to deal with business owners. It complicates things. Do some research. Do you know any DR's that have divorced that have their own business, or other business owners who have divorced? I had to fire my first attorney for his ineptitude, and he was very highly regarded. Even by his peers. 

I decided to go with an all female team. Takes one B to go after another B was my final deciding mantra. Everything is about money. Plain and simple. That is the way it should be handled. You will most definitely be needing a forensic accountant. One that has a good working report with what ever attorney you go with. Since the discussion with attorney/accountant will involve your business it is likely you can deduct their expenses through that. I did. Worked out nicely. It will all boil down to debts and assets in one part, and the children/custody in the other part. Fight for at least 50%. She cheated, not you. She has a poor history. 

Is your wife still in the house? She should move out. Do not leave the marital residence. Always have a voice recorder on you. Some women are very adept at claiming abuse in such cases. You have something worth fighting for. Protect what you have worked for, protect the future of your children. By cheating, she has already lost some credibility, and shows that she doesn't really care about the children. At least not right now. 

My divorce took 3.5 years. There certainly were times I doubted my sanity. But, in the end, Im glad I went through it. Nothing is worse on a man than a cheating wife. It slowly rips the soul from you, and leaves you with nothing of who you are at your core.


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## jb02157

Responding logically to something illogical is tough, especially when it will change your world as much as this will. As much as you don't want this to affect your family and that you don't want to divorce, sadly that decision had already been made for you.


----------



## toonaive

carmen ohio said:


> Gramon, what exactly are you unsure about?
> 
> 
> 
> As someone else pointed out, it's not about what you want, it's about making the best of a very bad situation.
> 
> You claim you are "logical." Well then, stop feeling sorry for yourself and start acting logically. You are getting good advice her, start implementing it.
> 
> The more often I read your posts, the more I think you're inability to reason or act is due to fear. Fear of losing your comfortable life, fear of what she will do, fear of what people will think. While understandable, you must realize that the longer you let fear paralyze you, the less control you will have -- and the more control she will have -- over the outcome of all this.
> 
> You don't have to do every right or right away, but you need to do something. If you can't manage anything else, start by limiting your interactions with her to only that necessary for the well-being of your children (the so-called _'180'_). By beginning to detach from her, you will gain perspective and the next steps (exposing what she's done, talking to a lawyer, etc.) will become easier.
> 
> Good luck.


It took me a while to realize, and understand, the absolute truth in this.


----------



## bandit.45

Do what they tell ya...


----------



## OldWolf57

G, if you dragging her and him into court will cost her her job, then you do have a little juice. I take it the AP is a client of hers. Hold it over her head.

Now, pay attention. You MUST be WILLING to lose your marriage to save it.
In your case, you may need to put on the whole game to save it.
That means filing, having her served, and exposing. Other words, fake it to make it.

Trying to figure out why you never consulted a lawyer after the first A, about protecting assets.

Seems you did everything wrong last time G, but at least this time you are in the right place.
So please, use the wisdom handed to you. 

Starting to think both AP's are somehow connected to her work. If so, and she want to save the marriage, she has to leave that job anyway. 
If she not willing, there's nothing you can do but expose.

Oh, tell her there is no privacy in a marriage except going to the bathroom.

Gotta say, 3 months, and you knew this was coming, but STILL didn't seek legal advice.

Get fricking legal advice man !!!
She's more concerned with losing her job sounds like than saving this marriage.


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## OldWolf57

What did you mean her saying you wanted half ??


----------



## Thorburn

You have been given some golden advice here. I will add the following for emphasis:

1. Keep your mouth shut as much as possible.
2. Start the 180 hard.
3. Lawyer up. As was suggested you will need a divorce attorney and a business attorney. Don't short change yourself in this department. Learn as much as you can about divorce in your state. I found out that divorce was not as bad as I thought it was going to be from a financial perspective. Don't share anything about an attorney with your wife.
4. Your wife is being illogical. Don't try to make sense out of nonsense. Her behavior is right out of the cheater's handbook. 

It will take a while for all of this to sink into your skull. Don't underestimate your wife's cunning. She will be given advice as well. She might be talking to an attorney.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Gramon said:


> she could be with me and him in the same day and never miss a beat.


Sounds like a real keeper... It's obvious she does not love you at all. Your marriage has LONG been dead. You were just the last to know. 

The faster you file for divorce, the faster you can move on with your life. It’s going to be expensive, hurt your children and business, and probably be the worst year of your life. You'll get through it though and you’ll be a better stronger man for it. 

She’ll still be a leg in the air gold digging wh0re. Pumped and dumped for other men's amusement. Ultra rich guys don't settle down with 40 something slvt moms. She's too stupid to stay married too.


----------



## Gramon

Thank you guys for all the advice.. This was such a shock because things had been going so well. Yes she is a high profile banker and yes he is one of her clients and yes she could lose job. I have some more simple questions I should know but it's hard to run a business and think about all this I'm still in shock. Should we stay in same house? Should we sleep in same bed? We have been so far although she has slept on couch a lot of nights. We have no kind of physical contact or talking only fighting. She still comes in cooks supper(should I eat her cooking?), acts like everything is normal.


----------



## TRy

Gramon said:


> Yeah the whole tracker thing is pretty amusing. the whole neighborhood could hear her screaming how dare you invade my privacy like this.


 When you are married and thinking like a couple, the only right to privacy that you expect is when you are in the bathroom. As a cheater, now that she no longer thinks of the two of you as a couple, she values her right to privacy over her marriage vows. Makes a lot of sense in a twisted cheaters sort of way of thinking.


----------



## Marduk

Gramon said:


> Thank you guys for all the advice.. This was such a shock because things had been going so well. Yes she is a high profile banker and yes he is one of her clients and yes she could lose job. I have some more simple questions I should know but it's hard to run a business and think about all this I'm still in shock. Should we stay in same house? Should we sleep in same bed? We have been so far although she has slept on couch a lot of nights. We have no kind of physical contact or talking only fighting. She still comes in cooks supper(should I eat her cooking?), acts like everything is normal.


OK. Please know this comes from a place of compassion.

Things were going well because she was ****ing a rich guy on the side. Of course she was happy.

You took away her **** buddy. Or at least took away the fantasy that she could have you both.

You should kick her out of the house (talk to a lawyer first). Absolutely do not sleep in the same bed.


----------



## truster

Gramon said:


> Thank you guys for all the advice.. This was such a shock because things had been going so well. Yes she is a high profile banker and yes he is one of her clients and yes she could lose job. I have some more simple questions I should know but it's hard to run a business and think about all this I'm still in shock. Should we stay in same house? Should we sleep in same bed? We have been so far although she has slept on couch a lot of nights. We have no kind of physical contact or talking only fighting. She still comes in cooks supper(should I eat her cooking?), acts like everything is normal.


Ask your attorney about the housing situation -- it could depend on your incomes, how much proof you have of the affair, your state, custody considerations, and all sorts of issues. Don't leave the house until you've made a full plan of action with the attorney and protected yourself -- it can be turned against you in court.

Edit: Actually, don't leave the house at all, IMO  But there are legal considerations around getting her to leave as well that should be considered.


----------



## TRy

Gramon said:


> Yes she is a high profile banker and yes he is one of her clients and yes she could lose job.


 Do not let her lose her job over this, as this could cost you big time in the divorce settlement. And yes there will probably be a divorce. The main issue is who will file. Talk to a lawyer and get the pros and cons. Also, do not leave you house no matter what as this couple impact child custody.


----------



## lost in Iowa

I will get killed for saying this on this board but ask yourself three questions.

1. Do I want to divorce her?

2. Do I want to stay married to her?

3. I do not know, what I want?

If you choose number one, do everything people are in this board are telling you to do, lawyer up and expose her affair to everyone. Remember, most states are fault free divorce states, and she will end up getting half of everything you have accrued during the marriage, plus child support. 

If you choose number three, spend some time alone, and decide do I really want one or two.

If you choose number two, its the hardest of the three. Sit your wife down, and ask her what does she want? Give her the same three choices, if she also wants to remain married, she must do the following.

1. She must end the affair now, have her call up the OM and tell him its over.
2. She must be transparent in aspects of her life, cell phones, emails, everything. She must give you 
passwords for everything and you must be checking. No more free time by her, she must account 
for every minute of the day.
3. You both must start counseling today, both separate and couples. You must strive to find out why
she is doing what she is doing and how to fix it.
4. This is going to take time, read everything you can find on how to fix a marriage and rebuild trust.
5. Keep this between yourself, do not tell your children, only friends of the marriage, the counselor and
your minister. Only people you can trust, that will not take sides, and be willing to help.
6. Understand this is a process and will not be easy, there are days you will feel like you are lost and
hollow inside.
7. Make contact with the OMW, she is your ally in ending this affair, both you need to sit down and collect all information about the affair that each of you can. Share the information with the OMW, this allow you to cross check everything. Look at cell records, texts, credit card bills, go over everything with a fine tooth comb, leave nothing to chance.
8. If you wife wants to stayed married, she must tell you everything about the affair, be aware this is a long process, will take weeks. Do not get hung up on her answering every question at the start, if you get stuck, come back to it later. But for recovery she must tell you everything, and leave nothing out. If you have a question, ask her for the answer.
9. Be nice, she is your wife, if both of you want to stay together, you must both learn to put what she did behind you, that is going to take years. But in the end, if both of you are willing to work, you will have a better, stronger marriage for the effort. 

Good luck.
Lost in Iowa


----------



## GusPolinski

lost in Iowa said:


> I will get killed for saying this on this board but ask yourself three questions.
> 
> 1. Do I want to divorce her?
> 
> 2. Do I want to stay married to her?
> 
> 3. I do not know, what I want?
> 
> If you choose number one, do everything people are in this board are telling you to do, lawyer up and expose her affair to everyone. Remember, most states are fault free divorce states, and she will end up getting half of everything you have accrued during the marriage, plus child support.
> 
> If you choose number three, spend some time alone, and decide do I really want one or two.
> 
> If you choose number two, its the hardest of the three. Sit your wife down, and ask her what does she want? Give her the same three choices, if she also wants to remain married, she must do the following.
> 
> 1. She must end the affair now, have her call up the OM and tell him its over.
> 2. She must be transparent in aspects of her life, cell phones, emails, everything. She must give you
> passwords for everything and you must be checking. No more free time by her, she must account
> for every minute of the day.
> 3. You both must start counseling today, both separate and couples. You must strive to find out why
> she is doing what she is doing and how to fix it.
> 4. This is going to take time, read everything you can find on how to fix a marriage and rebuild trust.
> 5. Keep this between yourself, do not tell your children, only friends of the marriage, the counselor and
> your minister. Only people you can trust, that will not take sides, and be willing to help.
> 6. Understand this is a process and will not be easy, there are days you will feel like you are lost and
> hollow inside.
> 
> Good luck.
> Lost in Iowa


Respectfully, I'd like to present a concept that seems to escape you...

Serial. Cheater.

Serial.

She's not going to stop.

Ever.


----------



## Thorburn

Gramon said:


> Thank you guys for all the advice.. This was such a shock because things had been going so well. Yes she is a high profile banker and yes he is one of her clients and yes she could lose job. I have some more simple questions I should know but it's hard to run a business and think about all this I'm still in shock. Should we stay in same house? Should we sleep in same bed? We have been so far although she has slept on couch a lot of nights. We have no kind of physical contact or talking only fighting. She still comes in cooks supper(should I eat her cooking?), acts like everything is normal.


Things were not going so well, it was an illusion. You talked about being logical, your statement "*This was such a shock because things had been going so well*", is not logical based upon the facts that your wife was cheating on you. Many of us, including myself, have been where you are at.

1. Don't do anything to jeopardize her job. 
2. Typically you both have a legal right to stay in the house. I would be very cautious. Don't leave, but don't do anything to cause her to file a PFA, or other legal stuff against you. I will say again, your wife can be very cunning and is more than likely getting advice from folks.
3. I would not sleep in the same bed. My wife moved upstairs and gave me space. If she had not I would have. My wife was so crazy at the time she wanted to cut our king size tempurpedic mattress in half so she could put in on the upstairs bed (we have an antique rope bed in that room). Like I was going to cut a $2,000.00 mattress in half.
4. My wife continued to cook meals. I was prepared to do my own cooking but ate her meals. 
5. Stop fighting with her. Keep your comments short and limited.

This is hard.

Lawyer up. Your wife is not stupid and may have already done so.


----------



## Thorburn

lost in Iowa said:


> I will get killed for saying this on this board but ask yourself three questions.
> 
> 1. Do I want to divorce her?
> 
> 2. Do I want to stay married to her?
> 
> 3. I do not know, what I want?
> 
> If you choose number one, do everything people are in this board are telling you to do, lawyer up and expose her affair to everyone. Remember, most states are fault free divorce states, and she will end up getting half of everything you have accrued during the marriage, plus child support.
> 
> If you choose number three, spend some time alone, and decide do I really want one or two.
> 
> If you choose number two, its the hardest of the three. Sit your wife down, and ask her what does she want? Give her the same three choices, if she also wants to remain married, she must do the following.
> 
> 1. She must end the affair now, have her call up the OM and tell him its over.
> 2. She must be transparent in aspects of her life, cell phones, emails, everything. She must give you
> passwords for everything and you must be checking. No more free time by her, she must account
> for every minute of the day.
> 3. You both must start counseling today, both separate and couples. You must strive to find out why
> she is doing what she is doing and how to fix it.
> 4. This is going to take time, read everything you can find on how to fix a marriage and rebuild trust.
> 5. Keep this between yourself, do not tell your children, only friends of the marriage, the counselor and
> your minister. Only people you can trust, that will not take sides, and be willing to help.
> 6. Understand this is a process and will not be easy, there are days you will feel like you are lost and
> hollow inside.
> 
> Good luck.
> Lost in Iowa


I would have to disagree on several of your points.

1. The OP is still is shock and seems to be in the denial stage. Those three questions should be put on hold.

2. Divorce law is not simple and each state will vary. There is no rule of 50/50. My settlement would have been 60% in my favor. The OP might get a better settlement or a worse one, his attorney should be able to address this better then us.

3. This is not the time to try to discuss this with the WS. She is still in the fog, thinking like a nut, and is clueless as to what she wants. She just got freaking caught. She will lie, lie again and lie about everything. Logic is not a trait she possesses right now.

4. Yea, have her call the OM to end it. Cheaters lie. The last thing the OP wants is for her to have contact with the OM. If she wants to end it then end it, no contact means no contact.

5. No marriage counseling at this point. IC for the OP. My wife went to IC during this stage and lied to the IC. So I do recommend IC for the OP but no MC at this time. It will be a waste of time and money.

6. *5. Keep this between yourself, do not tell your children, only friends of the marriage, the counselor and
your minister. Only people you can trust, that will not take sides, and be willing to help.*  This is not helpful at all.


LII - It seems you mean well but there is not much that you say that is meaningful at this time. When the WS shows remorse, sorrow, etc. for what she has done, then perhaps your advice will be helpful. We are observing an unrepentant cheater, who is still in the fog of the A and until she shows remorse, no amount of counseling will be helpful and transparency is the last thing on her mind.


----------



## TRy

lost in Iowa said:


> If you choose number one, do everything people are in this board are telling you to do, lawyer up and expose her affair to everyone. Remember, most states are fault free divorce states, and she will end up getting half of everything you have accrued during the marriage, plus child support.


 Actually, since she has a solid career of her own, it remains to be seen if she will do that well in the divorce. When so many of us have been telling him to lawyer up, we are telling him that rather than guess what will happen in a divorce, he needs to talk to an lawyer and find out his options prior to making any decisions.


----------



## bandit.45

Gramon said:


> Should we sleep in same bed? We have been so far although she has slept on couch a lot of nights. We have no kind of physical contact or talking only fighting. She still comes in cooks supper(should I eat her cooking?), acts like everything is normal.


Stop doing all that. Become independent from her. You need to take on the mindset that the marriage is over and that you are no longer her husband. 

*DO THE 180*


_*
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.*_





All the points are important, but the ones I highlighted in red are the ones that I think are the most important, and they are also the ones that are the hardest to follow consistently. 

The 180 will help you detach emotionally from her and it will act as an emotional buffer for you wherever she gets pissed and wigs out. If she ever does get nasty...you literally say nothing and turn around and walk away. 

Always carry a small VAR in your pocket whenever you have interactions with her...just in case.


----------



## Chaparral

Not one person, since I've been here, has shown where it hurts the betrayed spouse got hurt financially when the cheating spouse lost their job. The opposite has been shown many times as judges consider what that cheating spouse was making as the basis of their decision.

If you chose divorcing a serial cheater(Google serial cheater), hold exposure to her bank as a leverage to get what you want.

It doesn't matter what you want. You play the cards your dealt. Your wife decided sometime back your family wasn't worth keeping whole. It only takes one spouse to totally scre w the pooch.

Your job now is only to protect your kids and yourself. Your kids have to be told in age appropriate ways the truth of what's happening. Lying to them is not an option. Your wife has already proven they can neither trust her or depend on her.

Who is the OM and is he married?


----------



## lost in Iowa

If his wife is lying and does not want the marriage to be successful, nothing he can say or do will cause her to come back. She must be willing to want to be part of the marriage. By contacting the OMW and the OM, this will force both of them to make a choice. Continue the affair or end it. This is between them, if he broadcasts it to the world, his wife is having an affair, he might get her back, it may also push her into the arms of the OM. Or she may go back and resent the marriage. If she comes back, she must do that of her own free will, Appling pressure on her and the OM is one thing, but would someone please explain to me how forcing her back is good for the marriage? If he wants to divorce then go scorched earth, but if he wants to stay married, its really her choice.


----------



## bandit.45

*The 180 Game Face.....*


----------



## GusPolinski

lost in Iowa said:


> If his wife is lying and does not want the marriage to be successful, nothing he can say or do will cause her to come back. She must be willing to want to be part of the marriage. By contacting the OMW and the OM, this will force both of them to make a choice. Continue the affair or end it. This is between them, if he broadcasts it to the world, his wife is having an affair, he might get her back, it may also push her into the arms of the OM. Or she may go back and resent the marriage. If she comes back, she must do that of her own free wheel, Appling pressure on her and the OM is one thing, but would someone *please explain to me how forcing her back is good for the marriage?* If he wants to divorce then go scorched earth, but if he wants to stay married, its really her choice.


Who's talking about forcing her back? She's a _*serial* cheater_... there's no point!


----------



## bandit.45

lost in Iowa said:


> If his wife is lying and does not want the marriage to be successful, nothing he can say or do will cause her to come back. She must be willing to want to be part of the marriage. By contacting the OMW and the OM, this will force both of them to make a choice. Continue the affair or end it. This is between them, if he broadcasts it to the world, his wife is having an affair, he might get her back, it may also push her into the arms of the OM. Or she may go back and resent the marriage. If she comes back, she must do that of her own free wheel, Appling pressure on her and the OM is one thing, but would someone please explain to me how forcing her back is good for the marriage? If he wants to divorce then go scorched earth, but if he wants to stay married, its really her choice.


Has nothing to do with "forcing" her back....

It is about setting the truth free. 

She is going to trash him to her family, friends and everyoine she knows so that he will be blamed for the demise of the marriage. She will not care if what she says trashes his reputation. He needs to go on an offensive PR campaign to keep his good name, and he starts that by exposing her to family and friends. 

Now... he needs to be careful before exposing to her job. This is where the lawyer comes in. If he lives in an alimony state, and he gets her canned, then he is liable to pay monthly support to the b!tch...perhaps for the rest of her nauseating life.


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> Who's talking about forcing her back? She's a _*serial* cheater_... there's no point!


He doesn't get it... he just doesn't get it. Your'e wasting good finger energy Gus.


----------



## lost in Iowa

GusPolinski said:


> Who's talking about forcing her back? She's a _*serial* cheater_... there's no point!


Did I miss something? He stated he wanted to stay married, if that is true, then she must decide if she wants the same thing. Only if both want to be together will the recovery be successful. Yes, its going to be difficult for him to get over her affairs, difficult, not impossible. If that is what he wants, then he should at least try. What is the worse that can happen, he changes his mind, and they divorce at a later day, but at least he knows he tried. And his kids will also know that dad tried to stay together, it was mom that did not.


----------



## Thorburn

lost in Iowa said:


> If his wife is lying and does not want the marriage to be successful, nothing he can say or do will cause her to come back. She must be willing to want to be part of the marriage. By contacting the OMW and the OM, this will force both of them to make a choice. Continue the affair or end it. This is between them, if he broadcasts it to the world, his wife is having an affair, he might get her back, it may also push her into the arms of the OM. Or she may go back and resent the marriage. If she comes back, she must do that of her own free will, Appling pressure on her and the OM is one thing, but would someone please explain to me how forcing her back is good for the marriage? If he wants to divorce then go scorched earth, but if he wants to stay married, its really her choice.


I don't think the majority of folks here are suggesting that he forces her back into the marriage.

I, for one, don't recommend going scorched earth. His wife has a good job and I don't see the benefit of it being put in jeopardy at this time. If he files for D, whoever makes the decision in the D will more then likely look at her income (they do this in my state) and the OP may not have to pay much if any alimony. But his attorney will be able to give him better advice. 

Custody and child support are other matters to take into consideration.


----------



## lost in Iowa

bandit.45 said:


> Has nothing to do with "forcing" her back....
> 
> It is about setting the truth free.
> 
> She is going to trash him to her family, friends and everyoine she knows so that he will be blamed for the demise of the marriage. She will not care if what she says trashes his reputation. He needs to go on an offensive PR campaign to keep his good name, and he starts that by exposing her to family and friends.
> 
> Now... he needs to be careful before exposing to her job. This is where the lawyer comes in. If he lives in an alimony state, and he gets her canned, then he is liable to pay monthly support to the b!tch...perhaps for the rest of her nauseating life.


If they do divorce and she trashes him, he will just have to say one line, I might have been a terrible husband in her eyes, but it was HER that had the affair. She is going to trash him no matter what he says or does if they divorce.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

lost in Iowa said:


> Good luck.
> Lost in Iowa


Read Lost's thread, it has 2 important fundamental differences from yours.


----------



## Thorburn

lost in Iowa said:


> Did I miss something? He stated he wanted to stay married, if that is true, then she must decide if she wants the same thing. Only if both want to be together will the recovery be successful. Yes, its going to be difficult for him to get over her affairs, difficult, not impossible. If that is what he wants, then he should at least try. What is the worse that can happen, he changes his mind, and they divorce at a later day, but at least he knows he tried. And his kids will also know that dad tried to stay together, it was mom that did not.


The OP just got gut-punched and is fairly clueless right now. Most of us have been there. He is trying to hold on to something that does not exist - his marriage. It is gone, dead, kaput and she killed it.

The WS is still in the fog. Is showing no remorse. At this state the marriage is over and hopeless.

No amount of trying will fix anything right now.

What will help?

1. Do the 180 
2. Lawyer up


----------



## Acoa

convert said:


> The only thing I can say about her being mad about the tracker is you just say "you [email protected] another man, Shut the [email protected] up"



Yeah, she has zero right to be pissed. She is mad that you won't let her have her cake and eat it too. It's difficult for her to accept that you are not going to roll over and play dead. 

Go on the offensive. Hire a lawyer, file and start telling everyone about her affair. She'll be so pissed you exposed her to family and friends the tracker will become small potatoes. 

When she yells about you embarrassing her, tell her to not do embarrassing things and it won't be a problem.


----------



## manfromlamancha

This has got nothing (zilch, nada) to do with what she wants!!!

It is to do with what OP needs to do! To protect himself!


She is clearly a disrespectful, lying cheat and pretty accomplished at that!

He needs to first protect himself and then destroy the affair through exposure and consequences (again, to protect himself).


Hopefully he will snap out of the "but I'm still in love with her" [email protected] and see this for what it is and see her for what she is. The only thing about exposure is that if she loses her job he may be on the hook for alimony, more child support etc (but I even doubt that given her earning potential).


----------



## aine

lost in Iowa said:


> Did I miss something? He stated he wanted to stay married, if that is true, then she must decide if she wants the same thing. Only if both want to be together will the recovery be successful. Yes, its going to be difficult for him to get over her affairs, difficult, not impossible. If that is what he wants, then he should at least try. What is the worse that can happen, he changes his mind, and they divorce at a later day, but at least he knows he tried. And his kids will also know that dad tried to stay together, it was mom that did not.


what you are saying is logical but you have to remember the WW is in the affair cloud and is not able to think straight enough to make logical decisions as you suggest if her life depended on it. Therefore any decision she makes will either be the wrong one for the long term or one which is a lie (false) as she is effectively temporarily insane. So putting a stop to affair by exposing is a step in removing her from the fog. You also have to consider the impact of a false reconciliation, more lies and cheating on the OP, not all people are emotionally strong enough for that.


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## Gramon

I was not planning on exposing the affair at her work. Thank you all so much. Your words are helping me face reality


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## OnTheFly

Keep sharing and talking it out, it's very therapeutic!


----------



## GusPolinski

lost in Iowa said:


> If they do divorce and she trashes him, he will just have to say one line, I might have been a terrible husband in her eyes, but it was HER that had the affair. She is going to trash him no matter what he says or does if they divorce.


Even better...

"It's worth noting that my being a 'terrible husband' is a relatively new development. After all, she seemed perfectly happy with me up until the point that I confronted her with the knowledge that she'd been cheating on me. Again.

Oh... and also...? _She_ didn't file for divorce. I did. So I clearly wasn't so 'terrible' -- even AFTER I discovered that she's a serial cheater -- that she felt a need to divorce.

And as for _why_ I filed for divorce...? I mentioned she's a serial cheater, right?"


----------



## GusPolinski

lost in Iowa said:


> Did I miss something? He stated he wanted to stay married, if that is true, then she must decide if she wants the same thing. Only if both want to be together will the recovery be successful. Yes, its going to be difficult for him to get over her affairs, difficult, not impossible. If that is what he wants, then he should at least try. What is the worse that can happen, he changes his mind, and they divorce at a later day, but at least he knows he tried. And his kids will also know that dad tried to stay together, it was mom that did not.


Poor guy.

God bless you.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Gramon said:


> I was not planning on exposing the affair at her work. Thank you all so much. Your words are helping me face reality


If this scumbag OM is married you've hit the leverage jackpot. 

Between exposure at work and getting her canned for screwing her clients (we both know this isn't her first rodeo) and exposure to the OM's rich wife who will take rich guy to the cleaners, you have all the leverage you need for a clean easy divorce.

Demand an expeditious divorce, you keep the business (or at least buy her out cheap), joint custody and no alimony in exchange for silence. Once the divorce is final, expose to EVERYONE. OMW, her work, family, all your friends, the mailman and garbage man.

Start working on your "Vulcan" face....


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> If this scumbag OM is married you've hit the leverage jackpot.
> 
> Between exposure at work and getting her canned for screwing her clients (we both know this isn't her first rodeo) and exposure to the OM's rich wife who will take rich guy to the cleaners, you have all the leverage you need for a clean easy divorce.
> 
> Demand an expeditious divorce, you keep the business (or at least buy her out cheap), joint custody and no alimony in exchange for silence. Once the divorce is final, expose to EVERYONE. OMW, her work, family, all your friends, the mailman and garbage man.
> 
> Start working on your "Vulcan" face....


Gramon... sigh
Stop talking to her and get in a lawyer's office asap.
Look at dadsdivorce.com.
By you not doing anything she has lost all respect for you.
Get the book no more mr nice guy
and married mans sex life primer.
In my opinion if you were to serve her at work and go dark except for the kids, she may see the grass isn't cleaner but that is a big if.
Gramon respectfully get your head out of the sand.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Gramon said:


> *I was not planning on exposing the affair at her work.* Thank you all so much. Your words are helping me face reality


Why not Gramon ?


----------



## Vulcan2013

While you put your plan together keep one principle in mind: *do not telegraph any of your actions!*

Don't tell her you're going to file for D. Don't threaten to expose. Your actions have a much greater impact if she doesn't see them coming, you have not given any hints, and you are practicing the 180. 

I'd suggest you lawyer up, move joint assets to personal accounts, get her out of your business, and file for D. Filing doesn't commit you to completing the D. It's on her to find a way to persuade you she is worth your time. She has to meet all my f your conditions (do you know what they are yet?). For maximum effect, serve her at work. 

To be "nice, offer not to expose her at work if she's fair in the D. But, expose both her affairs to her family and close friends. Don't "tell on her", ask for support, as you can't stay married to an unrepentant cheater. She will be furious, but maybe begin to respect you if you don't back down. Simply tell her you refuse to keep her nasty secrets. 

That much, I think, is a beginning whether you choose R or D. Don't even let her think she gets to choose. You can't stay married to someone who treats you so badly, so it's D unless she really changes. 

Make your plan, and vet it here before you take action. Make sure you log out, lock you PCI, change the password, and use private browsing so she can't see your game plan. The worst mistake people make is poorly executed half-measures, or threatening the above repeatedly with no action. Strike when you're ready - good luck!


----------



## ing

It is hard to deal with the thoughts and feelings if you approach it from a logical, reasonable and sensible position.


Your kids don't matter. 
The years building a safe family. Doesn't matter
Financial security. pointless


The only thing that matters to her now is her insatiable desire to have this man fcuk her. 
Everything else will just have to work itself out.

In her ideal world you will remain on the sidelines cheering her on in her new magical life. Your children will want to be around her new man just as much as she does and her friends will like him too.

You are simply her enemy to happiness.


The day you found out was a dividing line. A day when your life split into before the discovery and after the discovery. 

It is hard to accept and not accepting this will delay the recovery, not only for you, but for your children. 
They need you to be certain. Strong. The rock and they need you to do this now.


Listen to what is being said by everyone.

Act decisively, with the precision you possess. 


I am so deeply sorry you are here. Few of us wanted to accept the truth but in the end we all did. The truth is that you have been dumped by a self entitled emotional teenager and she is furious with you for spoiling her fun.

You are not responsible for her. She is on her own now. Successful. I wonder


----------



## Sports Fan

Gramon said:


> Thank you guys for all the advice.. This was such a shock because things had been going so well. Yes she is a high profile banker and yes he is one of her clients and yes she could lose job. I have some more simple questions I should know but it's hard to run a business and think about all this I'm still in shock. Should we stay in same house? Should we sleep in same bed? We have been so far although she has slept on couch a lot of nights. We have no kind of physical contact or talking only fighting. She still comes in cooks supper(should I eat her cooking?), acts like everything is normal.


No you should not eat or accept anything from here. Do the 180. If you dont know what that is look it up here.

Pack her things off to the spare room. Not you her.

File for Divorce ASAP. 

Learn as much as you can about the new man and if he is married expose to his wife.

Chances are once exposed he will throw your wife under the bus quick smart to save his arse.

Sorry you are here and i know it sucks as we have all been there but you need to man up here


----------



## aine

Even if you don't want exposure to affect her job due to potential financial backlash to you, you should still expose to family and friends and threaten the OM with exposure to his wife, (he will probably drop her like a ton of bricks). In the longer term the OMW also needs to know too, it is only but right.


----------



## MattMatt

If you really have concerns about her cooking for you have samples of the food tested for drugs and poisons.

If she is putting anything in it is likely "something to help you" like a tranquiliser.

If so report her to the police.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude

Gramon said:


> I don't know what to do.


Easy


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By Gramon*
> this time she shows no remorse only anger
> she could be with me and him in the same day and never miss a beat




*Gramon, as long as she has the attitude that you described above you have NO chance of R*. You need to act according to the facts at the moment. Right now she will do nothing but reduce you to a door mat because she cares about herself then the OM and what she feels about you is great anger.


*Concentrate on you and your children and do not try to nice her into true R or be rational with her. Make a short term and long term plan for you to make things as good as you can for you and your children*. You will lose something; accept that, that is inevitable because everyone loses something in this situation. The three things that seem to dominate in this type situation are your emotions, your financial future and your children. Get as much help with your emotions as possible but do not look to your wife for that. You both seem to have a good income so you should not get killed there. In some states older children can have an influence as to which parent they want to live with for most of the year.


I know that you are stunned and confused but you have been sucker punched by your wife and there will be no peace with her attitude at present. You are now in the jungle kingdom and only the strong survive. If you do not fight for yourself you will become a defeated dish rag.


If her attitude changes and she proves that with ACTIONS then you can switch gears if you want. Right now you need to think only of you and your children as there is no way you can help your wife at this time; she sees you as an obstacle to her pursuits and she has replaced you with another man and her selfish concerns for herself. *She is in an affair and all rational thought regrading R is twisted and cannot be trusted.*

Your wife is very twisted and words are not going to change her and even actions may not change her. Use what energy you have to get yourself in the best possible position. *Do not let the temptation to change her take you away from looking out for yourself because she has proven she will not look out for you but will delibertly choose to harm you!
*


----------



## poida

Hi Gramon,

You know I've been in your situation and it's really hard to imagine how someone you love and who once loved you could do this to you.
You have a lingering hope that they will snap out of it or that something can be salvaged.
You struggle to detach from her and the feelings you still have for her.
The fog of anger, emotion, pain and trauma confuse matters further. You ask yourself am I being unreasonable? Was it my fault? What could I have done? What can I do now?

As anyone here that has been in your situation can attest to, if she wasn't on her knees begging for you to take her back immediately, she is gone and gone for good. Please believe us.

Now.... get in the car and go get your divorce papers. 

Don't be a chump. Respect yourself.


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## Gramon

You are all right about what your saying... I have what part of the finances I can control taken care of, had already started 180 like five days ago, glad I came here yesterday because I was about to cave . I will go to the lawyer today.


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## farsidejunky

Good.

Consult the attorney.

180.

Tell her nothing. You have already revealed too much (tracker).

If you know you want a divorce, don't expose...at least not yet.


----------



## cgiles

Read this book : https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf 

It's like the 180, but applied to your whole life.


----------



## bandit.45

Gramon said:


> You are all right about what your saying... I have what part of the finances I can control taken care of, had already started 180 like five days ago, glad I came here yesterday because I was about to cave . I will go to the lawyer today.


Act decisively and offensively. Men who do stand the best chance of ending up with an equitable settlement. 

Doesn't mean you have to like it. Doesn't mean you have to feel good about what you are doing. You just have to accept the reality that your once loving wife (if she ever really was that) is now your enemy. She's going to try to screw you over above and beyond what she has done already. The selfishness of WW like her cannot be underestimated. 

Never...never let your guard down. You have seen what happens when you do. 

The floodgates of hell have nothing on a vindictive, cheating woman out to destroy her husband.


----------



## eastsouth2000

Garmon, Do not leave the house let her leave if she doesn't want you around. I say again do not leave the house to get away from her. If you leave the house and start staying at relatives or in an apartment. it would be looked down upon by the courts. could affect alimony or your share of the wealth or even cost you your children.


----------



## convert

and you might want to have a VAR on you at all times. This might help if an argument gets to heated and the police are called.

VAR = Voice activated recorder


----------



## BetrayedDad

Gramon said:


> You are all right about what your saying... I have what part of the finances I can control taken care of, had already started 180 like five days ago, glad I came here yesterday because I was about to cave . I will go to the lawyer today.


This woman is manipulating you. Very well I might add. Almost has you convinced YOU did something wrong. The marriage is dead with her remorseless attitude. She destroyed it not you. Accept that please. 

You have to start being selfish with your needs.

You deserve better than this vile creature.

You do not have to put up with HER drama.

You've give her enough chances, she wasted them all.

You need to realize you have self worth and dignity.

You've got to man up and dump this witch.

Please check in with us before you do anything colossally stupid like giving her another chance. I know emotions run heavy but be as OBJECTIVE as you possibly can. If this happened to a friend what advice would you give him? You'd tell him to BAIL wouldn't you? 

Call the lawyer, have her served, the faster you move, the faster you start your new life. When a man looks into the abyss, there's nothing staring back at him. At that moment, the man finds his character. And that is what keeps him out of the abyss.


----------



## Graywolf2

Gramon said:


> This was such a shock because things had been going so well.


Your wife is obviously able to compartmentalize extremely well. Long term affairs tend to be handled in one of two ways. If the WS feels guilty they justify the affair by vilifying their spouse to feel less guilty. The other is to have two separate lives where they don’t feel guilty about either one. 

The good news is that because of her ability she didn’t need to beat you down. (i.e. You could remain a nice guy in her mind.) That’s why you could still have some genuinely good family times.



Gramon said:


> Yes she is a high profile banker and yes he is one of her clients and yes she could lose job.


File for divorce now and be as friendly as you can manage. Do not expose at all if you can manage it. You want her to keep her job and make money so you will not be hit up for as much in the divorce. 

Don’t overtly say it but she knows that you have the power to wreak both her professional and personal life. This will be in the back of her mind when you negotiate the terms of the divorce. Keep that card up your sleeve until the divorce is final then you can play it however you want.


----------



## toonaive

Remember, in a divorce, its not about winning, loosing, or getting something over on her. Make everything about money. Everything about getting an equitable distribution. You want the best financial outcome for yourself, and your children. Money is a tool, nothing more. Do not trust anything she says. It is likely that she is hiding money. Make her prove everything backed up with paperwork. My X lied on all signed court financial declarations. It didnt go well for when I steadfastly worked, to provide paperwork showing her lies. You have to work on ridding your mind that she is still the woman you married, and the same mother to your children. 

She is not. That person is dead, or may never had really existed at all. 

My X became the "succubus of satan". She became a liar, a cheat, and a thief. She always was one. Love really can be blind.


----------



## Gramon

Nc for two days, got a text that said hope you are doing ok. I didn't respond. On way to attorney now


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## Marduk

Gramon said:


> Nc for two days, got a text that said hope you are doing ok. I didn't respond. On way to attorney now


Good work. 

Do not respond. It is a trap either way. If you say you're ok, it will alleviate her guilt. If you say you're not, her ego gets a boost and she will respect you even less. 

Only conversations now are about the kids and about legal matters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Gramon said:


> Nc for two days, got a text that said hope you are doing ok. I didn't respond. On way to attorney now


Good man.  Stay dark. Only respond in regards to the kids, household logistics or the divorce. Do not answer texts that ask you how you are or what you are feeling. Never talk to her about feelings. 
*
THINK SPOCK. *

Do not let on that you are filing. File and have her served at work.


----------



## Gramon

Hey really appreciate you guys repeating all of these truths. I know for you all it's easy now that your on the other side ... But for some reason it is so hard for me to see and accept what she has really become. I'm still quiet shocked. Attorney visit went well. She is drawing papers up now...


----------



## jsmart

Gramon said:


> Nc for two days, *got a text that said hope you are doing ok. I didn't respond*. On way to attorney now


You did good. I know everything in you wants to call and "fix it" but you would be sucked back in emotionally. The 180 takes time to work but in the long run, you'll be stronger. What you are going through is like a death.

Make sure you're taking care of yourself. Get some food in you. Most men will find it hard to eat or sleep. A popular suggestion is drinking Ensure to at least get some protein in you. If you need help sleeping, there is no shame in asking Dr for something to non-addicting to help in the beginning. 

We're here for you but if you have a buddy that you can reach out to you should. There is no shame. You did NOTHING wrong. Don't face this alone.


----------



## happyman64

Gramon

It is never easy for any of us.

We have all been in your shoes and we know the situation sucks.

But being on the other side we can see clearer. We know what is waiting for you no matter what decision you make to R or D.

But we also know the first step is to confront. The second step is to show your wife that she is not allowed to have an affair while she is married to you.

Now that the papers are being drawn up have you decided where you will have her served? Work?

I would not. Not to cause more drama but to send a clear message.

And protect yourself. A var in her car before she gets served will tell you a lot about what your wife is thinking.

And since she is prone to anger a var in your pocket or your phone set to record can sure save you some grief if she gets out of hand.

Now be firm and show her what tough love looks like.

HM


----------



## As'laDain

im sorry you are going through this. 

honestly, i think you are getting the best possible advice here. personally, i would divorce her, even if she shows remorse at some point and is willing to do everything you ask. she will likely never believe that you would ever be willing to actually leave her until you actually leave her. 

at that point, your free do do... anything.


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## eastsouth2000

ALWAYS CARRY A VAR! When she is talking to you. she might have give a confession and you would get it all!


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## Gramon

I don't know where to serve her. I do not think she will contest... So in my county if there is no contest they don't have a constable serve her they just give you the papers to give to her. I liked the work idea but it costs more


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## Marduk

Gramon said:


> I don't know where to serve her. I do not think she will contest... So in my county if there is no contest they don't have a constable serve her they just give you the papers to give to her. I liked the work idea but it costs more


What will cause the least trauma to you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## poida

Serve her where she is unlikely to be defensive, at a time when she is unlikely to be defensive.
Perhaps do it in public, but somewhere that nobody knows you both.
That way you can at least go to YOUR house after that.
If you do it at home, you might feel compelled to leave and as above, that's not wise.


----------



## GusPolinski

Gramon said:


> I don't know where to serve her. I do not think she will contest... So in my county if there is no contest they don't have a constable serve her they just give you the papers to give to her. I liked the work idea but it costs more


Whether you do it yourself or not, work and home are really your only two realistic choices, and that's because you can't really count on her being anywhere else.

I'd have it done at work, and (if possible) probably no later than 10 am or so. That way she has plenty of time to blow up and climb down off the ledge before the kids get home from school. (Or are they back in school yet...?)


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## eric1

Work is the best option. It will be the place where she will be most emotionally hampered from going crazy, it will not risk her job and it'll give you a small measure of revenge.


----------



## terrence4159

Sorry you are here garmon but listen to the pros here. I wish I had tam when i went thru this 10+ years ago.

I would serve her at home tell her to make this painless or you will expose with all your evidence to her job and she will lose it. She will most likely give you what you want to save face and her job....also to protect her lover.


----------



## the guy

Gramon said:


> I don't know where to serve her. I do not think she will contest... So in my county if there is no contest they don't have a constable serve her they just give you the papers to give to her. I liked the work idea but it costs more


Go for broke....in my country that means spend the money to make the point 

She needs to see you will no longer be disrespected.

Having her served at work will make this point...don't you think?


----------



## As'laDain

she must really think you are a weak and pathetic fool...

why people do such things to each other is beyond me.


----------



## where_are_we

This post makes me so sad. 

You have received a ton of great advice. I agree that she is a lost cause. She lies and blames you for spying (catching her). Unreal and true lack of remorse. There is a special name for people like this.

Take care and so sorry that you are here.


----------



## OldWolf57

G, not knowing you or her, but knowing cheaters, it is good to see you taking action.

Her getting the papers will tell her more than anything else, that you will not put up with this.

As said, tell her nothing of your plans, especially if R is still what you want. She has to show you it's also what she wants. She may be a serial cheater, but there are BS here who wives was also, and they are still together.
You might want to PM the Guy about this.

The important things is you are taking action now, and not letting emotions shut you down.
The D process itself will take some time, so it give her and you time to make some decision.
I can't say what's best for you, only you can, but be careful.
By now she has gotten over her outburst, and is wondering what your plans are.
That may be the reason for the text. 
Show a little concern to make a crack in the silent wall you've erected.

Is it fake concern ? We don't know, but we do know you going silent is worrying her, and we do know she is worried about you blowing up her job.
AND, I see her saying you "can only get half" is something she has already thought about.

Did she have a consult after the last A, to see what she had to lose ??
You and us don't know, but her being a banker, I would bet on it.

Is this marriage over ?
Only you two can decide that.


----------



## jsmart

At work for sure. This was with a work client. I know most are advising not to push to get her fired. Because of potential alimony problems but I disagree. I would go all out to break her. She'll get another job but feel the pain and embarrassment for her actions. 

There is a thread by a WW on LS. Her husband found out through a PI that she was cheating. She traveled for her job. He called her hotel room at 2 in the morning and POS answered. The next day WW tried to play it off. He served her. Got her & POS fired from their jobs. Did a complete 180 on her. They're divorce and a year later she still post about wanting husband back and deeply regrets the affair. 

My point. Strength can turn things around. I would bet that shock and awe D with complete coldness can turn WW into remorseful wife that'll turn herself around to keep what she thought was disposable.


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## Gramon

I will go back to the attorney today and have them change the papers so I can have her served at work. I guess it will have to be next week now. I really do hate this


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## Gramon

Also I find myself obsessing about the om. I still don't even know who he is or his phone number. She is still texting talking and seeing him. She doesn't know this, she thinks I know a lot more than what I do. All I know is she met him a lot of times and he is a client


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## Chaparral

Does that mean you know his number? You can look his number up on the internet to find out who it belongs to.


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## Chaparral

Do you have access to her phone bill?


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## jsmart

Gramon said:


> Also I find myself obsessing about the om. *I still don't even know who he is or his phone number.* She is still texting talking and seeing him. She doesn't know this, she thinks I know a lot more than what I do. All I know is she met him a lot of times and he is a client


Hire a PI. Wont' take long to get the info you need. With that evidence you can file an alienation of affection lawsuit. Probably won't go to far but can still cause POS enough of a scare to toss your WW under the bus, especially since the guy supposedly has money. Also with that evidence you can file against your wife's employer. Get her fired. I know many think then you'll be stuck with higher alimony but come on. Your STBXW will get another job.


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## Gramon

I do not know his number... I did have access to bill but she changed it and blocked me


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## Chaparral

Gramon said:


> I do not know his number... I did have access to bill but she changed it and blocked me


You can try and guess the password. The best option is to get a PI.

Put a var in her car and that might also get some info. If you want, you can GPS her car and catch them together. Photos can be used to get a better deal. Odds are he's married.


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## Chaparral

A PI could save you a ton of money in the long run!


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## toonaive

Be careful about serving her at work. If she is fired. She has no income to contribute to the equitable distribution. Especially if she is cheating with a client of the business. The PI recommendation, is a very good one. Third party corroborating evidence is gold. Make sure to get a good one. Ive unknowingly hired poor ones. They end up costing you more money over the course of the divorce. Get the PI evidence you need before serving her. If I had to pay alimony, it would have come out to mid 4 figures per month. They are most definitely worth their weight in gold. The hard part is keeping your mouth shut while they work. If your plan is for scorched earth, you can do that afterwards.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Gramon said:


> I will go back to the attorney today and have them change the papers so I can have her served at work. I guess it will have to be next week now. I really do hate this


If serving her at work will take another week, forget it. You need to serve her ASAP. Even if you have to go online yourself, print and fill the papers out, go to the court house and hand them to her in person (that's what I did, $225 filing fee, done). 

Serving her at work is part of a "shock and awe" campaign to snap a WW out of the fog. If you're 100% for divorce, who cares where and from whom she gets them from? Embarrassing her at work will accomplish nothing and may work against you if it gets her canned.

Whatever gets the D done the FASTEST, go that route. Time is the enemy. You need her to be in the fog as long as possible. It's not a one size fits all process guys. The strategy for pursuing a D is very different than pursing a R.


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## happyman64

Gramon

Do you pay the bill?

HM


----------



## OldWolf57

Well, if she is still in the affair, I say jet her butt. She know's you know, and is still keeping it going. This one is done G.

As for her losing her job, do it, and do it hard !!! Same with family. Tell everyone and let them know it's her second go round.

We here have NEVER seen a case where the BS was punished for ws losing a job, with higher alimony.
The judge will look at what was earned BEFORE the firing.

Anyway, I take it she's loaded and that's why she said you could only get half.

And G, get the PI. Save yourself the headache investigating.

You tracked her meeting him, you know she still does. That makes the PI job easier.

Also,,, if they are meeting at hotels, it may be because he's married.

I just don't understand how you could track her but not know who he is.
Good Lord man, did you not learn anything the first time ??


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## convert

OldWolf57 said:


> Well, if she is still in the affair, I say jet her butt. She know's you know, and is still keeping it going. This one is done G.
> 
> As for her losing her job, do it, and do it hard !!! Same with family. Tell everyone and let them know it's her second go round.
> 
> We here have NEVER seen a case where the BS was punished for ws losing a job, with higher alimony.
> *The judge will look at what was earned BEFORE the firing.*
> 
> Anyway, I take it she's loaded and that's why she said you could only get half.
> 
> And G, get the PI. Save yourself the headache investigating.
> 
> You tracked her meeting him, you know she still does. That makes the PI job easier.
> 
> Also,,, if they are meeting at hotels, it may be because he's married.
> 
> I just don't understand how you could track her but not know who he is.
> Good Lord man, did you not learn anything the first time ??


Yes this is true at least in my state.

I knew a few people that got fired on purpose just to get out of paying alimony and it did not fly with the Judge.


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## Gramon

Ok found a pi that says he can get all the info within three days. Man I still just can't believe she treated me and the fam this way and continues to. She had a great life... Better than most. Still can't believe this is me typing this


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## Lostinthought61

Some people only see their needs and their wants above all else, above everyone else. sadly your wife maybe one of them. her happiness (however she defines it, is all that matters, maybe one day it will come back to haunt her bit not today. i wish you and your children well.


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## BetrayedDad

Gramon said:


> Also I find myself obsessing about the om. I still don't even know who he is or his phone number. She is still texting talking and seeing him.


Not good. You have to avoid this woman as much as you can. She's fvcking with your head.



Gramon said:


> Ok found a pi that says he can get all the info within three days. Man I still just can't believe she treated me and the fam this way and continues to.


Why do you want a PI, Gramon? 

If it's because you're in one of the few states where alimony can be affected by infidelity then okay. I can see that from a financial perspective however....

If it's because you're hung up on this POS, you need to stop. Do the 180, you KNOW she cheated, what USEFUL information will he provide? Great you know which walking dildo she humped. Big deal. Now you set your recovery back further.

Start worrying about YOU. 

Getting her fired is stupid... You want her working come court time. Hell, ideally you want her still screwing the guy. It will keep her preoccupied, her underestimating you and financially stable on paper.

Start worrying about YOU.

Yeah, we've never heard of a BS saying he paid more alimony due to a work divorce paper serving but I've only read about less than a handful that actually served them at work. So that statement is misleading.

Think strategically. Think with your head not your broken heart. After the divorce, if you want to go all Magnum PI and find out what kind of pizza he likes and who the clueless wife is go ahead but for NOW.....

Start worrying about YOU.


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## toonaive

My XW quit a 70k plus a year job for a 30k job. On the equitable distribution worksheet they were only going to work with what she currently earns. Not what she is capable of earning. My XW certainly had some good coaching. But, in the end, it still worked out good for me. Could have been a touch better though. Even today, she still tries to act like everything is amicable. Huh? What? 

What I am getting at is, you can only trust yourself and your team. What do you think she is doing for herself? The last person in the world she is thinking about is you. She couldn't give a rats **S about you. Keep that in mind, and you will do fine.


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## BetrayedDad

convert said:


> I knew a few people that got fired on purpose just to get out of paying alimony and it did not fly with the Judge.


Yeah and when the judge asks, "Why did you get fired?" and the wife says, "Because the guy whose sitting before you and doesn't want to pay alimony, made me lose my job intentionally..." you don't think the judge would consider that relevant to the case at all?!?

Common... Why even go there at all? It's pointless self inflicted risk.


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## GusPolinski

I'm with @BetrayedDad on this, @Gramon... I wouldn't do a damn thing to jeopardize her job, lest you wind up paying through the nose in terms of spousal support.

Generally speaking, the ONLY instance in which I'd advocate for a workplace exposure is if the BS is looking to get the WS to commit to reconciliation. But, as I've said before, if you have to go that far in order to bring your (*cough* serial cheater!) WW back to your marriage, it likely wouldn't work anyway, and therefore wouldn't be worth it.

Now... once the ink is dry on the divorce decree...? Do whatever, but do nothing w/o CAREFULLY examining the impact that it may have on your children.

All that said, definitely find out who this POS is and, if he's married or has a girlfriend, expose to his wife/girlfriend.


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## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> I'm with @BetrayedDad on this, @Gramon... I wouldn't do a damn thing to jeopardize her job, lest you wind up paying through the nose in terms of spousal support.
> 
> Generally speaking, the ONLY instance in which I'd advocate for a workplace exposure is if the BS is looking to get the WS to commit to reconciliation. But, as I've said before, if you have to go that far in order to bring your (*cough* serial cheater!) WW back to your marriage, it likely wouldn't work anyway, and therefore wouldn't be worth it.
> 
> Now... once the ink is dry on the divorce decree...? Do whatever, but do nothing w/o CAREFULLY examining the impact that it may have on your children.
> 
> All that said, definitely find out who this POS is and, if he's married or has a girlfriend, expose to his wife/girlfriend.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Once the pi gets the info expose the POS if he has a wife.
Heck I would expose him at his work.


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## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> Once the pi gets the info expose the POS if he has a wife.
> Heck I would expose him at his work.


Hey, if OP has enough evidence to file citing infidelity, he can always list OM as a co-respondent... right?

LOLOLOLOL


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Hey, if OP has enough evidence to file citing infidelity, he can always list OM as a co-respondent... right?
> 
> LOLOLOLOL


Hey I'm a good guy but when someone messes with me I can get very "creative">


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## Gramon

I know I should not care who he is but I do, I'm heart broke and if he has a wife I want him to share a little hell on earth with me.


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## GusPolinski

Gramon said:


> I know I should not care who he is but I do, I'm heart broke and if he has a wife I want him to share a little hell on earth with me.


That's completely understandable. And, if you find yourself waffling on this, just repeat the following to yourself...

"His wife deserves to know."


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## bfree

Gramon, you're in shock. You're grieving the death of your marriage. It's perfectly understandable and normal. I just read this and thought it might help. Although he's talking about the death of a loved one the emotions experienced are eerily similar.

Message from an old man on loss.

I'm old. What that means is that I've survived (so far) and a lot of people I've known and loved did not. 

I've lost friends, best friends, acquaintances, co-workers, grandparents, mom, relatives, teachers, mentors, students, neighbors, and a host of other folks. I have no children, and I can't imagine the pain it must be to lose a child. But here's my two cents...

I wish I could say you get used to people dying. But I never did. I don't want to. It tears a hole through me whenever somebody I love dies, no matter the circumstances. But I don't want it to "not matter". I don't want it to be something that just passes. My scars are a testament to the love and the relationship that I had for and with that person. And if the scar is deep, so was the love. So be it. 

Scars are a testament to life. Scars are a testament that I can love deeply and live deeply and be cut, or even gouged, and that I can heal and continue to live and continue to love. And the scar tissue is stronger than the original flesh ever was. Scars are a testament to life. Scars are only ugly to people who can't see.

As for grief, you'll find it comes in waves. When the ship is first wrecked, you're drowning, with wreckage all around you. Everything floating around you reminds you of the beauty and the magnificence of the ship that was, and is no more. And all you can do is float. You find some piece of the wreckage and you hang on for a while. Maybe it's some physical thing. Maybe it's a happy memory or a photograph. Maybe it's a person who is also floating. For a while, all you can do is float. Stay alive.

In the beginning, the waves are 100 feet tall and crash over you without mercy. They come 10 seconds apart and don't even give you time to catch your breath. All you can do is hang on and float. After a while, maybe weeks, maybe months, you'll find the waves are still 100 feet tall, but they come further apart. When they come, they still crash all over you and wipe you out. But in between, you can breathe, you can function. You never know what's going to trigger the grief. It might be a song, a picture, a street intersection, the smell of a cup of coffee. It can be just about anything...and the wave comes crashing. But in between waves, there is life.

Somewhere down the line, and it's different for everybody, you find that the waves are only 80 feet tall. Or 50 feet tall. And while they still come, they come further apart. You can see them coming. An anniversary, a birthday, or Christmas, or landing at O'Hare. You can see it coming, for the most part, and prepare yourself. And when it washes over you, you know that somehow you will, again, come out the other side. Soaking wet, sputtering, still hanging on to some tiny piece of the wreckage, but you'll come out.

Take it from an old guy. The waves never stop coming, and somehow you don't really want them to. But you learn that you'll survive them. And other waves will come. And you'll survive them too. 

If you're lucky, you'll have lots of scars from lots of loves. And lots of shipwrecks.


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## Gramon

Thank you for that I'm really struggling today


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## bfree

Gramon said:


> Thank you for that I'm really struggling today


We've been there and we'll be there for you too.


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## Gramon

Kids don't know anything. Man I still can't believe she can do this. I just can't understand


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## poida

The best thing is still the hard line no matter what your long term intentions are G. Just keep telling yourself that.

Full public exposure and divorce papers are most effective. I would definitely expose the other man. His wife deserves to know and the POS deserves some public exposure.

It's the best thing for everyone. You, your wife, and the wife of your wife's affair partner.


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## jsmart

Adultery is the worse thing a spouse can do. I wish I could tell you it will be better in a few days but it take time. The 180 help you detach. After so many years you're totally one so it like a part of you is being torn off. 

Check out this thread from LS. Had an affair; husband found out. I disclosed and he filed for divorce - LoveShack.org Community Forums
This WW cheated on her husband. Her husband filed D. As you go through her thread you can see the evolution from sorry you she got busted to deep remorse but her husband was unwavering. The colder he got the more she was turned on. He even got her & POS fired. 

Here is another link to showing that divorce at middle age can turn out really well for men.

Post Selection |

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/08/10/hold-her-beer-and-watch-this/


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## CTPlay

****ing Wow.

So this is what it is like on the other side when the fog of betrayal dissipates and clarity returns. Gramon, I was you in April. My sincerest sympathies to what you are going through. God I'm so sorry.

If you continue on your path, you will reach clarity. I know what all this advice sounds like at first. 

Let go.
Do the 180.

There is alot between Fog and Clarity. But the journey leads to freedom. 

And let me tell you how sweet the freedom is. Yes, I still get sad, angry, scared. But it's nothing compared to being lost in that fog. 

The more I clung to the idea of saving my "wife" the deeper I was in the fog. 

Best wishes.


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## Mr Blunt

> By Gramon
> Kids don't know anything. Man I still can't believe she can do this. I just can't understand.


*You may never understand it and even if you did it would not change her because she has to change herself*. Do not spend too much time trying to understand her as she has stooped to a very low character action that will be very damaging to her and in her condition right now your understanding will not affect her one bit and will just keep you perplexed. *You can help yourself a lot more by spending your energy in other areas rather than trying to understand her twisted mind and emotions.*


*Your wife has sacrificed you and her children’s emotions for her selfishness; that is a fact. No matter what you did to not be the best husband you CAN NOT allow yourself to take any of the blame for this one*. You will be hurt to the bone for a while but just know that you can get a LOT better and this is not the end of your life. You can get over her and others will fill your heart or maybe she will break and come back to you asking for another chance. In either case, you need to be very active in getting all the help that you can with your emotions and to build yourself up in body, mind, and spirit. Continue to be a good father and your children will love you for your whole life.


*You have not even lived half your life and you can have a rich life with her or without her! Millions have done it and so can you.*


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## aine

Gramon said:


> Kids don't know anything. Man I still can't believe she can do this. I just can't understand


You are in shock/denial, it will come to you then there will be anger, it is a cycle, all perfectly normal and your body's way of protecting you. Just put one foot in front of the other and one day you will no longer feel the pain and will be free of this. Stay strong for your family.


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## Augusto

Have you checked with your state laws? If your state allows it, you can sue him for this mess. If he's got money and your state has this in place, do it. You can trade a cheating wife for a check.


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## JohnA

g-man,

Be sure the PI gets pic. She will lie, proof is good to give the BS back bone. 

Read and understand the fog and the cheaters script. It is one thing the get blindsided by a sucker punch it is another if you know on the count of three she will swing a right round house at your head. Talk to lawyer and ask him to hold off serving her until you and the lawyer can talk about what she will do when she attacks in a blind fury. SHE WIlLL GO NUKE. Right now she hate/ you (read the fog) and despises you. So when the game plan is set serve her away from work. Him on ther other hand - shred if you can.

Also your kids will have issues, what are they ? Be honest with thent the reason but the details in living color. And then drop the subject matter. Once and done.


----------



## Gramon

Thanks for all the advice. I'm really pissed this morn. Last night she was going out of her way to be an unbelievable b$tch to me in every way. I didn't fight with her. Man she was acting so crazy!


----------



## Gramon

I'm getting myself together now a little better. I don't trust my own judgement so i need help scripting this conversation with my kids. i have a twenty three year old girl which i can handle. The ones I need help with are the eleven year old boy and thirteen year old girl. I would like to do this as diplomatic as possible and should my wife be there? She will interupt and start a fight because she is wanting to act like nothing is wrong and deny everything. She does not want anyone to know about her boyfriend yet she continues to see him. I want to get the proper plan together to blow this thing wide open. I do want to expose both her and him publicly. There is no issue here with messing up her job. I think I should wait for pi info on who it is before I serve her. Im fed up and ready to do this.


----------



## cgiles

Simply state than you and your wife doesn't love each other anymore.

Avoid to put the blame on her, and tell her to do the same if she loves her children, because as soon one of you will put the blame on the other one, it will **** up your children.

Read this : Is Divorce Bad for Children? - Scientific American


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## Chaparral

cgiles said:


> Simply state than you and your wife doesn't love each other anymore.
> 
> Avoid to put the blame on her, and tell her to do the same if she loves her children, because as soon one of you will put the blame on the other one, it will **** up your children.
> 
> Read this : Is Divorce Bad for Children? - Scientific American


So, your advocating they both lie to their kids. The truth always comes out and the kids can trust neither of them.

Can anyone post a link to marriage builders article on exposure? I cant do it feom this phone.


----------



## Chaparral

As far as aher anger and b!tching goes, be like Spock and tell her your sorry she feels that way. Nothing else.


----------



## laara

I agree with most posts, take care of your kids and yourself and leave. Also, consider what your actions are teaching your kids. It's easier to do what you need to do when you think about what you would want for your children.


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## SadSamIAm

Tell the kids the truth. You don't need to go into details or be graphic. Just mom has a boyfriend and so we can't stay together anymore. 

You are sure about what is going on. You don't need to wait for the PI to tell your kids. The PI infomation may be used to stop your wife from 'gas lighting' and might help with the divorce or other exposure.

Do it when she isn't there. She can ( and will) spin it anyway she wants later when she has a chat with them.


----------



## turnera

Gramon said:


> I'm getting myself together now a little better. I don't trust my own judgement so i need help scripting this conversation with my kids. i have a twenty three year old girl which i can handle. The ones I need help with are the eleven year old boy and thirteen year old girl. I would like to do this as diplomatic as possible and should my wife be there?


No, you tell them yourself, without her. She lost that right. She caused this.

You say "When two people marry, they are supposed to choose each other forever. Your mom has decided she doesn't love me any more and she wants to be with another man. So we will be separating, and maybe divorcing. But it has nothing to do with you, and we both will never stop loving you or wanting you. You can tell me anything, and I will always be here to listen."


----------



## cgiles

Chaparral said:


> So, your advocating they both lie to their kids. The truth always comes out and the kids can trust neither of them.
> 
> Can anyone post a link to marriage builders article on exposure? I cant do it feom this phone.


No, I should have develloped more.

In my head it was more than daddy and mommy agreed to love each other, mommy love someone else, so mommy and daddy decided to move each other on their ways.


----------



## Mr Blunt

*Your wife is the one that has betrayed you and your children and she should be the one telling your children with you there to make sure the truth is told.* However, if she will not own up to her own actions, then you can tell your children that your wife refused to tell them the truth and that she has rejected you and that she has replaced you with another man. Tell the children that if they want more information that they will have to ask their mother.


*The words that Turnera used (see below) are very good and I would make sure that the children know that they had absolutely nothing to do with the separation or divorce and that together that you and them will make it through this crises and that you will always love each other.* You and your children are what are important now so I would concentrate on that.



> By Turnera
> But it has nothing to do with you, and we both will never stop loving you or wanting you. You can tell me anything, and I will always be here to listen."


----------



## GusPolinski

With respect to telling the kids, I wouldn't say anything along the lines of "Mom doesn't love me anymore". I'd just stick to the facts...

"Mom has a boyfriend, and this isn't the first time. I forgave her the first time, and agreed to continue in marriage with her on the condition that she wouldn't do it again... but now she's done it again. So, while I will likely one day forgive Mom, I've decided that I don't want to continue in marriage with her anymore."


----------



## bandit.45

Gramon said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I'm really pissed this morn. Last night she was going out of her way to be an unbelievable b$tch to me in every way. I didn't fight with her. Man she was acting so crazy!


Stay on the 180. Re-read it agin a few times today. Keep working it. Live it. 

When she comes barging in a room and starts yelling at you and insulting you, you turn around and walk away. Pretty soon she will learn that is not working and she will drop that tactic. 

She does this because she feels out of control. Being mean to you is her way of trying to re-establish control. So...you take that control away by walking away when she does that. 

You are not her husband anymore. It is no longer your job to stand there and take it.


----------



## Affaircare

GusPolinski said:


> With respect to telling the kids, I wouldn't say anything along the lines of "Mom doesn't love me anymore". I'd just stick to the facts...
> 
> "Mom has a boyfriend, and this isn't the first time. *Now I believe people do make mistakes and can be forgiven if they stop doing the wrong thing and work to fix it. * I forgave her the first time, and agreed to continue in marriage with her on the condition that she wouldn't do it again... but now she's done it again. So, while I will likely one day forgive Mom, I've decided that I don't want to continue in marriage with her anymore."


:iagree: :iagree: 

I would not say what "she" thinks or feels or did, because you aren't in her head. (So I recommend NOT saying "She doesn't love me" or "She decided to love someone else." ) Instead I agree with Gus--keep it on what YOU think and feel and do. 

Thus, something like what Gus wrote, with the possible small change of saying _"Mom has a boyfriend, and this isn't the first time. I forgave her the first time, and agreed *to stay married* on the condition that she wouldn't do it again... but now she's done it again. *I believe married people should only love each other,* so, while I will likely one day forgive Mom, *her choices have broken our marriage *and I've decided that I don't want to continue to be married to her anymore."_


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## Gramon

my wife is now acting llike she is posessed by an evil spirit.She has started trying to use the kids as pawns. I have been trying to do stuff with them as often as possible, now she trys to thwart that as much as she can. Then she trys to lecture me on how and why she is doing that. I cannot believe that she is acting this way. Had i not seen it myself i would not believe it. Am i supposed to start a new thread anytime or keep on this one?


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## farsidejunky

Keep this one. People will continue to advise you.

You need to memorize three terms:

1. "I am sorry you feel that way."

1. "I am not okay with..."

3. "Are you done?"

She tries to stop you from doing something with the kids?

"I am not okay with you preventing me from spending time with our kids."

She calls you names?

"I am sorry you feel that way."

Or...

"I am not okay with name calling."

She nags on the same subject?

"Are you done?"

Or...

"Why Mrs. Gramon, if I didn't know any better I would say you were trying to get a rise out of me!" with you best Cheshire Cat grin.

Keep calm when saying this. She is TRYING to get an emotional reaction from you. Don't let her.

ETA: Get a VAR to carry with you for all of your interactions with her. She sounds capable of nastiness such as a false order of protection.


----------



## VFW

Understand this is a woman who is used to being in charge at work and probably at home and has a rich Sugar Daddy on the side. How can life get any better? Here you come out of the blue and you have the audacity to mess up her life with demanding fidelity, how dare you (tongue in cheek). She has lost control and is acting out in anger and is trying to bait you in to an argument, but don’t let her. The more irate she becomes, the more calm you become, this will make you look more reasonable to everyone else. You can be upset on the inside, but have to remain calm on the outside, this will help the children as well and give control back to you.

You need to hold this under your hat until the PI has finished and papers are filed. Then you need to expose to family and friends, so they know what is going on and can help. As for the children, the one is an adult and tell her the truth, don’t trash her mother the truth is bad enough. The other two are not babies and deserve the truth, not details, but truth. Most children their age wants to know how it affects them, here is where you calm their fears that you are still a family, even if their mom chooses to leave. 

This is going to be one of the hardest things you are ever going to do. You are going to go through a rollercoaster of emotions and I highly encourage you to seek counseling after she is served with papers. You are grieving the death of your relationship, which is much like the death of a person. This is doubly difficult because you are having to deal with this mad person, who looks a lot like a woman you loved (crazy Ex). You and the children need to know you will get through this and live a good life, but it will take time. You are actually doing well, though it may not seem like it right now. Hang Tough!


----------



## happyman64

Gramon

Good advice so far. Get the PI hired and collecting the evidence.

Than expose the Affair. Nail your wife.

Serve her papers and protect the kids as best as you can.

Now get moving.

HM


----------



## Chaparral

How's it coming with the PI?


----------



## GusPolinski

Voice. Activated. Recorder.


----------



## Graywolf2

VFW said:


> She has lost control and is acting out in anger and is trying to bait you in to an argument, but don’t let her. The more irate she becomes, the more calm you become, this will make you look more reasonable to everyone else. You can be upset on the inside, but have to remain calm on the outside, this will help the children as well and give control back to you.





GusPolinski said:


> Voice. Activated. Recorder.


You have received great advice. The only thing I have to add is the timing of the exposure. If you’re being productive gathering evidence of the affair it’s well worth enduring her provocations. Even if you’re in a “no fault” state it’s worth setting the record straight for friends, family and yourself. Keep your head down and a VAR in your pocket.


----------



## Decorum

Start a journal and document her actions regarding the kids, etc.
Concurrent journals carry a lot of weight.

Please believe she is very capable of setting you up for charges at some point. Do the VAR.


----------



## Gramon

I hired the Pi on thursday he is doing his job as we speak... I have not had my first meeting with evidence yet, he said probably monday or tuesday. The papers are pretty much ready to serve, attorney suggests waiting a few days on the pi just to make sure we know everything we can. Very good advice guys on how to deal with her. Man its tough, I have been married to her forever, been through many deaths, and other things and I have NEVER seen her act like this. It is scary... when i get close to her my anxiety level goes through the roof. Shes like satan roaming to and fro seeking who she can devour.


----------



## jsmart

She's dead in sin. She no longer feels empathy, sorrow, or love. It's all about her. She eats and wipes her mouth and says I've done nothing wrong.

Make sure you bring the rain down on POS too. This is a war for your family. She's just another piece of @ss to him, even if she thinks other wise, but she's the mother of your children. I pray God gives you strength and wisdom to get you through this.


----------



## turnera

Right now she is a drug addict. That's the best way to describe people in affairs. They are high on the PEA chemicals (the same ones you two felt when you were dating; they only stay in your body four or five years), while at the same time it's a clandestine activity so they're even more heightened on keeping it going. So when the betrayed spouse steps in front of them and keeps them from accessing that drug high, they can go berserk. Just like a drug addict if you suddenly take away their stash as well as their money to buy more; they start getting frantic and one soul mind - keep the drug coming. And, in your case, make sure YOU look worse than her.


----------



## JohnA

Hi Gramon,

If you posted it I missed it sorry. Is the 23 yr old both of your's ? 

How familiar are you with the fog. Particular the "I hate him, I despise the dumb ass....., if only I could be with the OM my life would be perfect" phase ? 

You need use this as a weapon to gain control your life and young children's lives. Yes do the 180 attempt to reconcile but also create the best post divorce life for your self and the children.

I want to hear about your life post divorce. Write about it today. It will help you proceed with dealing the idea of reconciliation. Be prepared for the worst, work for the best.


----------



## JohnA

Think of it as a plan to expand a business


----------



## OldWolf57

G, she knows it's coming. She knows you won't forgive this time. She is trying to get a rise out of you, hoping you will slip up and give your game plan away.
You're holding her job over her head, and her image too. That's where the anger coming from.
Sorry to say, but you are also seeing the contempt she has hid since getting busted the first time.

Now, while I agree on being Spock around her, I also believe in getting in their face and telling them what a POS I think they are, and I don't talk to POS's, I flush it.


----------



## JohnA

Childhood trigger "I'm sorry.". Mother would say "if you were sorry, You would not have done it in the first place.". She knew how to drive a point home, eh ?

So never say "I'm sorry....". Say instead "I regret". I find later in life it is a much cleaner statement. There are things I am sorry for, and many things I regret.


----------



## tripad

Gramon said:


> I hired the Pi on thursday he is doing his job as we speak... I have not had my first meeting with evidence yet, he said probably monday or tuesday. The papers are pretty much ready to serve, attorney suggests waiting a few days on the pi just to make sure we know everything we can. Very good advice guys on how to deal with her. Man its tough, I have been married to her forever, been through many deaths, and other things and I have NEVER seen her act like this. It is scary... when i get close to her my anxiety level goes through the roof. Shes like satan roaming to and fro seeking who she can devour.


How is she acting evil n like satan roaming on earth ? 

Me ex is currently going bananas too n i wonder too who is he ?


----------



## Gramon

Where can I read about this fog? She goes about the house and property looking for everything and anything wrong to pick a fight with me kids whoever. I been riding bike ten miles every morning and ten every evening. The kids wanted to go this evening, but we had an argument first which I had avoided all contact til the weekend. I told her if she kept on she would lose her family. She then twisted that into the kids should not go because she thinks I might hurt them! This really hurt... They are. All spoiled I've never laid a finger on any of them. She's frieking crazy. Where do I read the fog?


----------



## jsmart

You need to assert yourself and take the kids. You're the father and have equal right to spend time with them. 

These sites can help explain the fog.

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for Those Affected by Infidelity and Cheating

Coping With Infidelity: Understanding The "Wayward Fog" - Marriage AdvocatesMarriage Advocates


----------



## aine

I think she suspects that you already know and is trying to rile you up, make you angry especially in front of the kids so that you look like the bad guy. You have to tell her that no matter what issues you have between you, acting like this in front of the children is only damaging to them, and for the sake of the kids, you should not argue, etc in front of them. Appeal to her this way. if she is not willing to see this, then it means she is really lost and gone over the edge. Therefore you need to expose ASAP.


----------



## bandit.45

Gramon said:


> Where can I read about this fog? She goes about the house and property looking for everything and anything wrong to pick a fight with me kids whoever. I been riding bike ten miles every morning and ten every evening. The kids wanted to go this evening, but we had an argument first which I had avoided all contact til the weekend. I told her if she kept on she would lose her family. She then twisted that into the kids should not go because she thinks I might hurt them! This really hurt... They are. All spoiled I've never laid a finger on any of them. She's frieking crazy. Where do I read the fog?


This is why it is imperative you go down to Best Buy and get yourself a small Sony VAR and keep it on you at all times. Your WW is trying to get you to lash out at her....of this I'm certain. She wants you to go off on her, threaten her or hit her so she can call the cops and have you arrested. 

Yes, she is that sick right now. Don't give her any opportunity to manipulate you right now. You need to watch her like a hawk and think, think, think before acting.


----------



## BetrayedDad

GusPolinski said:


> Voice. Activated. Recorder.


And don't eat or drink anything she gives you sight unseen, unless you let the dog taste it first.

Don't underestimate crazy.....


----------



## Decorum

GusPolinski said:


> "Mom has a boyfriend, and this isn't the first time. I forgave her the first time, and agreed to continue in marriage with her on the condition that she wouldn't do it again... but now she's done it again. So, while I will likely one day forgive Mom, I've decided that I don't want to continue in marriage with her anymore."






bandit.45 said:


> Stay on the 180. Re-read it agin a few times today. Keep working it. Live it.
> 
> When she comes barging in a room and starts yelling at you and insulting you, you turn around and walk away. Pretty soon she will learn that is not working and she will drop that tactic.
> 
> She does this because she feels out of control. Being mean to you is her way of trying to re-establish control. So...you take that control away by walking away when she does that.
> 
> You are not her husband anymore. It is no longer your job to stand there and take it.







bandit.45 said:


> This is why it is imperative you go down to Best Buy and get yourself a small Sony VAR and keep it on you at all times. Your WW is trying to get you to lash out at her....of this I'm certain. She wants you to go off on her, threaten her or hit her so she can call the cops and have you arrested.
> 
> Yes, she is that sick right now. Don't give her any opportunity to manipulate you right now. You need to watch her like a hawk and think, think, think before acting.







OldWolf57 said:


> G, she knows it's coming. She knows you won't forgive this time. She is trying to get a rise out of you, hoping you will slip up and give your game plan away.
> You're holding her job over her head, and her image too. That's where the anger coming from.
> Sorry to say, but you are also seeing the contempt she has hid since getting busted the first time.
> 
> Now, while I agree on being Spock around her, I also believe in getting in their face and telling them what a POS I think they are, and I don't talk to POS's, I flush it.



Just to reiterate!


Also...
Remember after exposure; You cannot trust her! "I can no longer trust you." Let her work to earn it if she wants it back for civility after the divorce.
Remember she fired you as a husband (not a father) and found a replacement, her wants, words, and expectations no longer carry the weight of marriage, it's business (finances) or the kids that is what you have in common now. Nothing more, accept no more emotional persuasion, no more emotional intimidation.

The opposite of love is not hate it is indifference. She is an adult and makes her own adult decision, it is no longer your job to be there for her.
She knows your anger means you have not detached, some women will take drama and negative attention as reassurance that you have not moved on.
I know its still early, just offering some things to start thinking about.

The dynamic may change after exposure, lets hope so.

Take care.


----------



## Gramon

I am gaining traction and resolve in my own mind finally... I'm still in shock over her behavior.... I'll never look at a woman in the same way again. I feel like experiencing this through her has really set me back on being able to trust ANYONE AGAIN


----------



## happyman64

Gramon said:


> I am gaining traction and resolve in my own mind finally... I'm still in shock over her behavior.... I'll never look at a woman in the same way again. I feel like experiencing this through her has really set me back on being able to trust ANYONE AGAIN


That is what infidelity does to you gramon.

But in time you will learn from this crappy experience and find someone else worthy of your trust .


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Gramon said:


> She then twisted that into the kids should not go because she thinks I might hurt them!


Be very careful now. We have too many stories of restraining orders and orders of protection being falsely placed on spouses. This is how it starts.


----------



## CTPlay

Hey Gramon,

Don't overthink it right now, but you too are in a kind of a fog as well. Which is perfectly normal. It takes right action and time to gain some clarity.


----------



## GusPolinski

Gramon, I'll say it again... you need a VAR, and you need it 5 minutes ago yesterday.


----------



## OldWolf57

G, pay attention !!!! Get the VAR !!!

You are doing well, but you still don't quite get it.
As you are starting to see, this is NOT the woman you married, and we are giving you advice concerning ALL her moods as of D day.
Take your fone if it has a camera and let her see you recording her the VERY NEXT Time she goes off.
Especially if it's at the kids.
Don't let her put you on the defensive using the kids safety, it's just another tactic, since you are giving her no insight, it's killing her not knowing.
She's still seeing him, so she's not fogging. 
She's afraid of what you are going to do, and that fear is expressed in anger.
Tell her "I may not care right now if you got ran over by a bus, but my kids are going to live long healthy lives."

If you want, tell her we are D'ing, we can do it nicely, or we can do it dirty, but I'm getting YOU out of my life.
If she goes on about the kids being hurt, ask if she was thinking of them when she was wallowing in the mud.

You see G, you have to hit her where she don't think you will go. So flip the script. Give her Spock until she push a button, then go street on her as.
Get your point across and walk away.


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## As'laDain

Get the VAR!

There is a reason everyone keeps saying it. Think about it like this... you could either regret spending the 50 bucks on it, or regret having absolutely no proof of the way she has been treating you when she starts convincing everyone you know that you are abusive, controlling, cheating, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist

Gramon said:


> Ok I'm listening but what if I don't want to lose the family... I do not want to divorce. I'm upper middle class, own a business with eighteen employees I built for twenty one years, her om is ultra rich, don't know yet if he is married
> I am having trouble coming to terms, I'm logical but having great difficulty


You are fortunate in that her OM is rich. That means that at least while she is in the "affair fog", you may be able to get a divorce on reasonably favorable terms because she will want to get it over quickly to be with her "soulmate".

So in this sort of case I would file immediately and hope that is how she reacts; if you wait until she cools down on him, it will probably be much more expensive to get rid of her.


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## Gramon

Guys I guess I didn't mention it but I've had the var since Friday.


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## Mrs.Submission

I can't imagine the level of hurt you feel right now. 

I'm afraid that this doesn't bode well for your marriage. I have seen couples heal after one affair but your wife is clearly a serial cheater.

You owe it yourself to walk away from someone who doesn't have any respect for you or your marriage. I wish you well.


----------



## bandit.45

Bra on whenever you feel hopeless go back and read LuvMyJava's thread. He went through a very similar experience and he's coming out on top. 

Don't stop believing that life will get better. It will.


----------



## Gramon

Man thanks I will read it and yes the hurt is terrible especially on days like today... I went early and rode the bike, then came back and got kids ready for church. She wanted to go with us, so we all went just like old times. It was a great service. She worshipped God filled with spirit. Then as soon as we got out we went to eat and as soon as we got out she started attacking me verbally about anything and everything. Then we came home and she went "shopping". Very tough day


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## turnera

"Very Christian-like of you, dear. I can see you learned a lot today."


----------



## Mrs.Submission

Gramon said:


> Man thanks I will read it and yes the hurt is terrible especially on days like today... I went early and rode the bike, then came back and got kids ready for church. She wanted to go with us, so we all went just like old times. It was a great service. She worshipped God filled with spirit. Then as soon as we got out we went to eat and as soon as we got out she started attacking me verbally about anything and everything. Then we came home and she went "shopping". Very tough day


Your wife is *not *a Christian woman if she is cheating on her husband. You should tell the pastor about her affair and see what he or she says. I bet that would throw your wife for a loop. 

She has learned that she can mistreat you and get away with it. That's why she's so disrespectful and openly having an affair. 

While I don't blame you for your wife's infidelity, I wonder if your passive behavior was a contributing factor. It is hard for a woman to respect a man who doesn't stand up for himself. I have a strong feeling that her affair partner is the complete opposite of you when it comes to being firm and decisive.


----------



## As'laDain

Ugh... your wife is blind. 

You can hate her if you want. I doubt many would call you wrong if you did. I certainly wouldnt...

But, still, your wife is completely blind. She wishes for grace... but, she has not yet laid down her own failings. She has not yet accepted who she is. She WANTS to be forgiven of her sins, but she has not yet accepted that she has sinned.

It seems to me that you still want to save your marriage. If that is so, gather proof of her actions. Then expose her, to everyone... 

Should you do such a thing, remember that you will have to defend her from those telling you to leave her. You will have to try and explain that she has been ignoring what is true, and that you are willing to let that go, so long as you see that she is not ignoring it anymore. 


It would be far easier for you to divorce her. 

Let me make this clear to you: unless you are willing to do ANYTHING to crush the way she chooses to see herself, you will do nothing worth while. For her OR for you. 

It IS possible for you to continue being married to her, and build a rich life with her. But that life will be far different than anything you are used to, or are even comfortable with, as you are right now. 

Choose which path you want to go down. Just make sure you are willing to commit to the path you choose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Someone should pray for her soul. Always assuming she still HAS one. ..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Mrs.Submission said:


> Your wife is *not *a Christian woman if she is cheating on her husband. You should tell the pastor about her affair and see what he or she says. I bet that would throw your wife for a loop.


Of course, if you want her back, you should absolutely have exposed her cheating to the pastor, as well as her other important people. You should be asking the pastor to talk to her about the 'godliness,' or lack thereof, of cheating.


----------



## Mrs.Submission

turnera said:


> of course, if you want her back, you should absolutely have exposed her cheating to the pastor, as well as her other important people. You should be asking the pastor to talk to her about the 'godliness,' or lack thereof, of cheating.


Exactly.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Gramon said:


> Man thanks I will read it and yes the hurt is terrible especially on days like today... I went early and rode the bike, then came back and got kids ready for church. She wanted to go with us, so we all went just like old times. It was a great service. She worshipped God filled with spirit. Then as soon as we got out we went to eat and as soon as we got out she started attacking me verbally about anything and everything. Then we came home and she went "shopping". Very tough day


Wow, sounds familiar. We took our grandkids to church, late breakfast, was a good time. Then she goes to the river to "help a friend move". OM was there and Two hours later she TEXTS me that she wants a divorce and "I hope you understand". 

It's depressing that we only find all the information about what is going wrong and why in places like this AFTER it's too late. I wish you better luck in your journey than I am having.


----------



## Gramon

You can still be a Christian and cheat. Happens every day. You shouldn't but Christians do as much bad as anyone else


----------



## tripad

Gramon said:


> Man thanks I will read it and yes the hurt is terrible especially on days like today... I went early and rode the bike, then came back and got kids ready for church. She wanted to go with us, so we all went just like old times. It was a great service. She worshipped God filled with spirit. Then as soon as we got out we went to eat and as soon as we got out she started attacking me verbally about anything and everything. Then we came home and she went "shopping". Very tough day


Omg

How does she do that ? 

Church then affair ???? 

My ex n his family is the same n till now i cant understand .

Sin first forgiven again, so to be able to sin again ?

Dump her .


God didnt ask you to stay with a sinner who abuses your grace and kindness . God told me that one day . I left my ex who then accused me of "harbouring anger" and "unforgiveness" . WTF .


----------



## turnera

Gramon said:


> You can still be a Christian and cheat. Happens every day. You shouldn't but Christians do as much bad as anyone else


Yes, but being a Christian means you are to be held accountable to your pastor, who is supposed to guide you. Having him look her in the face and saying 'Really? Really, Mrs. Gramon?" would go a long way toward making her think twice.

Remember, if you're trying to save your marriage, you WILL have to make her mad. Your marriage can survive her anger; it can't survive another man.


----------



## jsmart

Today it's become to pick and choose the parts of the bible that are relevant. Anything that hurts our sensibilities, we ignore. But to me, the bible is clear:

Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers.

I too would expose at church. Don't carry her water too.


----------



## bandit.45

Gramon said:


> You can still be a Christian and cheat. Happens every day. You shouldn't but Christians do as much bad as anyone else


Yes they do, which is why I no longer practice religion. 

Just keep doing the 180. Get that divorce. Keep recording her on the VAR. DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT.


----------



## bandit.45

jsmart said:


> Today it's become to pick and choose the parts of the bible that are relevant. Anything that hurts our sensibilities, we ignore. But to me, the bible is clear:
> 
> Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers.
> 
> I too would expose at church. Don't carry her water too.


Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Paul taught that church members had an obligation to expose sin amongst their ranks wherever they found it.


----------



## farsidejunky

Gramon, did she spend any time at the altar today? Repentance shows acknowledgement. 

If not, I would have zero problem calling her out on her b.s.


----------



## turnera

How can she repent when she's still cheating?


----------



## Decorum

Gramon said:


> Man thanks I will read it and yes the hurt is terrible especially on days like today... I went early and rode the bike, then came back and got kids ready for church. She wanted to go with us, so we all went just like old times. It was a great service. She worshipped God filled with spirit. Then as soon as we got out we went to eat and as soon as we got out she started attacking me verbally about anything and everything. Then we came home and she went "shopping". Very tough day


There is a plague of infidelity in the spirit filled churches today. From the top down.

The modern church is impotent in the face of infidelity; forgiveness, non judgment, grace, etc all are rug-sweeping approaches to infidelity without the requirement of true remorse.

Confession is confounded with repentance, and the counseling is often more relationship oriented than personal cleansing and renewal focused.

The standard approach on TAM is much closer to the Apostolic traditions then what is often seen today. The modern approach is more Gnostic then Kerigma.

You have painted a a disturbing picture. I have seen the affair partner welcomed into a fellowship while the BH sat there broken and feeling betrayed.

I have seen much more over the years, so much damage!

Who are we to judge, right? ...Sad!

There is nothing "Christian" about rugsweeping!


----------



## Gramon

Ok guys I'm sorry I opened up a philosophical can of worms I shouldn't have. It's not helping at all. Lets get off the religion


----------



## Gramon

No time at altar. She did cry a lot. But as soon as we got out she started a fight. Attorney should be getting close with papers. There's a lot of details to it and I still have some info to get to him. I'm hoping pi wants to meet today but I kinda doubt it because they do most of their business during work week. Do you guys think I should try for half of her 401? Attorney says some do and some don't but legally I own half


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> How can she repent when she's still cheating?


Begs the question doesn't it?

Bigger question is, why is Gramon going along with the deception?


----------



## bandit.45

Gramon said:


> No time at altar. She did cry a lot. But as soon as we got out she started a fight. Attorney should be getting close with papers. There's a lot of details to it and I still have some info to get to him. I'm hoping pi wants to meet today but I kinda doubt it because they do most of their business during work week. Do you guys think I should try for half of her 401? Attorney says some do and some don't but legally I own half


You go after everything you can get. 


It's time to get aggressive pal. You better start waking up from this lethargy you are in....or she is going to skin you alive.


----------



## bandit.45

Decorum said:


> You have painted a a disturbing picture. I have seen the affair partner welcomed into a fellowship while the BH sat there broken and feeling betrayed.
> 
> I have seen much more over the years, so much damage!
> 
> Who are we to judge, right? ...Sad!
> 
> There is nothing "Christian" about rugsweeping!


Christians are supposed to judge each other...the church is supposed to be self policing. The sin is exposed, the sinner goes before the body (his brothers and sisters) and confesses what he or she did. Then the body of believers works with that person to bring them into full repentance and change. 

Christians are not to judge unbelievers. 

This is where modern doctrine gets screwed up.


----------



## Acoa

Gramon said:


> . Do you guys think I should try for half of her 401? Attorney says some do and some don't but legally I own half



Start with going for it. Go 50% across the board. All assets and debts. 

Once that is established, horse trade for things of approximately equal value. If you want the house, trade with the 401k, ect. 

I was negotiated less alimony in exchange for giving her more assets. 

Do what is in the best interest of you and your children, but start with a 50/50 split as the base for negotiations.


----------



## OldWolf57

G, let her see you recording her antics if you want them to stop.
Keep the VAR on you at all times, and as soon as she starts, you pull it out so she can see it.

There is no reason you should be putting up with this.
Just you posting of it, show how much it hurts, so put a stop to it.

I'm concerned you are not showing more anger. Not to her, but in the thread.
I suspect you like many BS is in the BS fog.
Find youself a IC if you have to, but get some hands on help soon.

Hard to Handle put up with a lot. I mean a lot, but now he have issues. Heck, who wouldn't after what he went through.
Thank God, he truly is a moral person. A sociopath like me with those contacts LOL.


----------



## CTPlay

If you look at forums involving experiences with divorced dads, one of the across the board regrets was being "nice" on splitting financials. 

Start with what you are legally entitled to. She may retaliate with harsh words and guilt (that's what the VAR is for). 

Hold the line. Learn from those before you. Forget philosophies, experience trumps all that.


----------



## toonaive

" Do you guys think I should try for half of her 401? Attorney says some do and some don't but legally I own half"

Make it all part of the settlement negotiation. It gets all written down. She wont give you anything. When push comes to shove, its all about money. Do not assume she wont be hiding any. The closer you get to divorce, she will start to panic, and the money grab is on! They all do it to one degree or another. 

My XW knew she wasn't entitled to alimony, but she went for it anyway in court. Her request was flatly denied, and for the reasons why. That really got to her.


----------



## dash74

Gramon said:


> Do you guys think I should try for half of her 401? Attorney says some do and some don't but legally I own half


It can be a chess piece but I would say no go with the quick devorce that looks good to her 50/50 if she try to get petty then yes


----------



## Decorum

Gramon said:


> Ok guys I'm sorry I opened up a philosophical can of worms I shouldn't have. It's not helping at all. Lets get off the religion


Sorry.


----------



## Decorum

Granmon,

Its uncommon for someone to get more than they ask for.
You have no idea how this will go down, start with everything on the table.
That's why states recognize marriage, it involves finances and property, (as well as minors and other things).

Don't tie you hands behind your back.

We have seen the claws come out during a divorce more than once.

The stronger your position is the better off you will be.


----------



## Mycroft_63

Go for the 401k. It is a good start to your bargaining position.


----------



## OldWolf57

G, now you are seeing what she meant getting half.
This shows thinking ahead of consequence, and still taking the risk. 
She must really think he's worth the risk, even if he's married.
Of course, there have been ww's who have left to be the other woman.
To me, that means NEVER taking her back !!!

The only thing I see you are ahead in, is that she is spinning out of control.
She was expecting anger, pleading, and outbursts.
You have given her none or very little of this, and she can't handle it.

Show the VAR at her rages, and walk away G.


----------



## bandit.45

Gramon are you scared of your wife?


Be honest.

Why does she intimidate you so much? 

Are you unwilling to expose her because of your fear for what she will do? Has she ever been physically violent with you?


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## Gramon

Ok pi came through. I know who he is and what he does. He has several houses across the country two are within ten miles of my house. He is married but his wife mostly stays in a mansion in florida. Now what to do? First to answer some questions. I am not scared. You don't build a multi million dollar company with twenty employees by being scared. I learned a long time ago that you must have all the information available to you before battle if you want to win. I've put my whole a$$ on the line more times than most can think about. You don't get information by being hard. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Now that being said I am for sure over my head in this situation. That's why I'm here. I need you guys input on next action. Lawyer is working on papers still. I now know everything about this guy. What do I do? Serve papers first, expose first, call wife first?


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## OldWolf57

G, we see so many here that can never ever see themselves being an ahole, but sometime in this brave new world, it's DEMANDED to save ourselves from hurt.
In your case I really think it's needed. Now I'm not talking about physical threats, but low voiced choiced words of what she is, and what you think of her would do her a world of good.
She knows you don't think much of her, but hearing what you SEE her as for, for the rest of your life, may just slow her as down with the attacks. 
If not, pulling out the VAR, and showing you are recording her may.

Hang in there G, but don't ever look to someone else to do all the work for you.
Sometime you have to step in and say stop or get your as out.
Especially when it's in front of the kids.
Have you given ANY thoughts to how they felt coming from CHURCH and hearing her, with you just taking it ???????


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## OldWolf57

What massage did your D take from that ? 

What massage did your son take from that ??


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## 3putt

Gramon said:


> *That's why I'm here. I need you guys input on next action. Lawyer is working on papers still. I now know everything about this guy. What do I do? Serve papers first, expose first, call wife first?*


What do you want the end result to be?


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## GusPolinski

Gramon said:


> Ok pi came through. I know who he is and what he does. He has several houses across the country two are within ten miles of my house. He is married but his wife mostly stays in a mansion in florida. Now what to do? First to answer some questions. I am not scared. You don't build a multi million dollar company with twenty employees by being scared. I learned a long time ago that you must have all the information available to you before battle if you want to win. I've put my whole a$$ on the line more times than most can think about. You don't get information by being hard. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Now that being said I am for sure over my head in this situation. That's why I'm here. I need you guys input on next action. Lawyer is working on papers still. *I now know everything about this guy. What do I do? Serve papers first, expose first, call wife first?*


I wouldn't say a thing to your WW prior to having her served w/ divorce papers.

As far as exposing to OMW goes, I'd do it JUST BEFORE your WW is served. This will ensure that she can't call OM ahead of time and warn him of the incoming carnage, which will effectively eliminate his ability to do any damage control or spin doctoring w/ his BW.

Also talk to your lawyer to find out what you can _safely_ give to OMW in terms of evidence.


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## OldWolf57

Expose, then his wife although, it's sounds like she won't care unless it makes her looks bad to friends.
Then again, she may have just given up catching him, and your info is all she needs.
Serving ww can be done at YOUR leisure.

And G, I never thought you was scared of her, you explained what you did with the process before.
The only thing I can't recall was if you exposed to family back then. Which you should have done.
I see you as so many, as just too polite to call a skank a skank. Especially the mother of your kids.

Protect those asset and run her out of town.


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## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> I wouldn't say a thing to your WW prior to having her served w/ divorce papers.
> 
> As far as exposing to OMW goes, I'd do it JUST BEFORE your WW is served. This will ensure that she can't call OM ahead of time and warn him of the incoming carnage, which will effectively eliminate his ability to do any damage control or spin doctoring w/ his BW.
> 
> *Also talk to your lawyer to find out what you can safely give to OMW in terms of evidence.*


What does safely giving evidence mean?

I agree with the rest.


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## GusPolinski

3putt said:


> What does safely giving evidence mean?
> 
> I agree with the rest.


If, for example, OP or the PI (doubtful) happened to have some sort of recording or other piece of evidence that wasn't -- strictly speaking -- obtained via legal means, he might not want to hand that over.


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## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> If, for example, OP or the PI (doubtful) happened to have some sort of recording or other piece of evidence that wasn't -- strictly speaking -- obtained via legal means, he might not want to hand that over.


Meh, I wouldn't worry about that at all. If he does this right, the last thing that will be on her mind is how he found out.


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## jsmart

Expose to POS's wife first, so your WW can't warn POS. The other betrayed spouse may not care if she's just using him for the money. But if you give her some ammo to make POS's life destabilized. Also ask your lawyer about filing a suit against POS for alienation of affection. It will probably not go anywhere but can maybe make POS sweat and combined with an angry wife, he'll throw your wife under the bus. Also find out if there is any scare he can do at your wifes job. 

Nothing would be better than for her to be thrown under the bus by POS, lose her job, and have her husband of 17 years kick her to the curb.


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## Gramon

O not that it really matters but my wife is 42 and smoking hot, I mean the kind of hot that your friends are scared of. The om is 68 .... Older than her dad. He's old gray wrinkly .... This was quiet a shock to me... Still have not processed all of that yet. His wife is 51 and she's pretty damn hot herself. That caught me way off guard ... I mean she's a legit gold digger


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## bandit.45

I'm glad you are not scared of her.


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## tom67

Gramon said:


> O not that it really matters but my wife is 42 and smoking hot, I mean the kind of hot that your friends are scared of. The om is 68 .... Older than her dad. He's old gray wrinkly .... This was quiet a shock to me... Still have not processed all of that yet. His wife is 51 and she's pretty damn hot herself. That caught me way off guard ... I mean she's a legit gold digger


Well you could fly to Florida and "console" her.:wink2:
Blow this up dude and call her no guarantee she will care but who knows.


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## just got it 55

Mycroft_63 said:


> Go for the 401k. It is a good start to your bargaining position.


GO FOR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING

Up to and including her shoelaces

Her shoelaces!!

55


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## eric1

Get all the evidence in order and get it in written and PDF format. Call her and say, "you do not know who I am but my wife has been having a long-term affair with your husband. I understand that this may be shocking to hear so I would like to keep this short and send you what proof I have. Where should I send it? Also, here is my mobile number in the event that you need any clarification on this or anything contained in the email"


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## eric1

just got it 55 said:


> GO FOR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING
> 
> 
> 
> Up to and including her shoelaces
> 
> 
> 
> Her shoelaces!!
> 
> 
> 
> 55



Correct. Always negotiate down


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## just got it 55

Gramon said:


> Ok pi came through. I know who he is and what he does. He has several houses across the country two are within ten miles of my house. He is married but his wife mostly stays in a mansion in florida. Now what to do? First to answer some questions. I am not scared. You don't build a multi million dollar company with twenty employees by being scared. I learned a long time ago that you must have all the information available to you before battle if you want to win. I've put my whole a$$ on the line more times than most can think about. You don't get information by being hard. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Now that being said I am for sure over my head in this situation. That's why I'm here. I need you guys input on next action. Lawyer is working on papers still. I now know everything about this guy. What do I do? Serve papers first, expose first, call wife first?


Go full shock and awe

Pull the rug right out from under their lives

Do everything simultaneously

No retreat

55


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## Chaparral

Few states allow alienation of affection lawsuits if the info gathered here is correct. What does work is intentional infliction of emotional distress for you AND your kids. Since he's rich, a quick payoff might be possible. Ask your attorney about sueing him first as your first round of exposure.


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## Chaparral

I think we are all assuming you are not interested in reconciling, is that right?


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## phillybeffandswiss

Gramon said:


> O not that it really matters but my wife is 42 and smoking hot, I mean the kind of hot that your friends are scared of. The om is 68 ....


Read through enough threads and you wouldn't be shocked at how many people do what is called affairing down. Yes, this includes people who are felons, have sex crimes and live in mom's basement.

Don't waste time processing it because it rarely, if ever, makes sense.


I am skimming as I am on my way to work. If you are filing for cause, like adultery, wait and talk to your lawyer. If not expose when you have her served.


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## drifting on

Gramon, 

Just a quick thought here, but if you can sue the OM for alienation of affection why not serve OMW at the same time of serving your wife? Serving OMW with the lawsuit has a dual purpose, exposure and serving of lawsuit. Just an idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## naperken

Gramon,

I agree with the others, your most effective means for blowing this up is contacting the OMW. If she's half the gold digger she appears to be, there will likely be a pre-nup involved in their marriage and she will be enthusiastic over any hard evidence you can provide her. This will keep him so busy, he won't have the time or resources to deal with her or you... He will be literally in a fight for his life. This will also send a chilling message to your wife that you're not the fool she thought you were and will immediately put her on the ropes... You need to keep her there. Never let her go on the offensive, let alone get get her guard back up. Shock & awe, baby!


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## convert

naperken said:


> Gramon,
> 
> I agree with the others, your most effective means for blowing this up is contacting the OMW. If she's half the gold digger she appears to be, there will likely be a pre-nup involved in their marriage and she will be enthusiastic over any hard evidence you can provide her. This will keep him so busy, he won't have the time or resources to deal with her or you... He will be literally in a fight for his life. This will also send a chilling message to your wife that you're not the fool she thought you were and will immediately put her on the ropes... You need to keep her there. Never let her go on the offensive, let alone get get her guard back up. Shock & awe, baby!


I agree


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## hospitality

I wouldn't contact his wife with the flimsy GPS evidence you have. If they have any professional reason to be together regardless of how small it will be easy to rationalize. I'm sure the OM tells his wife what to believe all the time and without concrete evidence like pictures, video, etc you aren't going to make his life difficult. But concrete evidence and if he has kids you could blow this thing wide open.

Also, typically when a woman cheats it's often to fill one void that is missing. I own a successful business too, but most of my money is tied up in the business so that I can make payroll, have inventory, float projects and as the business has grown it takes more money to operate. My wife's perception is that I'm married to the business and the business takes all the money despite the nice lifestyle because I don't have lots of free time and I don't cash out 100% of earnings each month. But I'm vulnerable to say some physician who makes $25k a month and spends every dime because the perception would wow the lifestyle and immediate excitement. If the husband is out of shape/lazy the broke fitness guy from the gym will fill that void. 

You really need to look closely at what your weak points are and work on those specifically because when you blow this whole thing up and your wife is left with sugar daddy OM all of the sudden she has to look at him as complete package, not just the guy who provides excitement. When she does this and sees him only as the sugar daddy, a lousy step dad, herself as a stepmother dealing with an evil ex wife, assets split in half so he is living with her, a two year nasty divorce with OM's wife and you have shored up your weaknesses this is when you have a great chance to win her back if that is what you want. 

I've had dozens of women throughout my marriage that I could have slept with and would have if I was single. But when I compared them as a whole to my wife each one only filled the need for sex/excitement. When you blow this thing up you really want to paint the picture that the OM is nothing but short term excitement when you present the reality that he is going to be getting divorced. Also you want to paint the picture to OM that guess what he gets to spend every other week with your kids, afternoons/evenings at the soccer fields hanging out with you, etc etc. I don't a whole lot of 67 year old men really want that either so he may run back to his wife/life before this whole thing explodes.


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## GusPolinski

Hello and goodbye.


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## naperken

@hospitality

Dude, I have no freaking idea what you're talking about or how you're adding any value here.

You really want to imply or lecture the OP right now about how you think his wife's cheating is his fault?!? He clearly has some part in the distress of the marriage, but her infidelity is totally on her... Period! Also, suggesting that the OP have a conversation with the OM about why his wife is a bad bargain is ridiculous. This is not how you gain or maintain self respect, trying to convince the POSOM to give you your wife back. That's whack!

Never, ever be somebody's Plan B.


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## Augusto

serve this *****


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## toonaive

hospitality said:


> I wouldn't contact his wife with the flimsy GPS evidence you have. If they have any professional reason to be together regardless of how small it will be easy to rationalize. I'm sure the OM tells his wife what to believe all the time and without concrete evidence like pictures, video, etc you aren't going to make his life difficult. But concrete evidence and if he has kids you could blow this thing wide open.
> 
> Also, typically when a woman cheats it's often to fill one void that is missing. I own a successful business too, but most of my money is tied up in the business so that I can make payroll, have inventory, float projects and as the business has grown it takes more money to operate. My wife's perception is that I'm married to the business and the business takes all the money despite the nice lifestyle because I don't have lots of free time and I don't cash out 100% of earnings each month. But I'm vulnerable to say some physician who makes $25k a month and spends every dime because the perception would wow the lifestyle and immediate excitement. If the husband is out of shape/lazy the broke fitness guy from the gym will fill that void.
> 
> You really need to look closely at what your weak points are and work on those specifically because when you blow this whole thing up and your wife is left with sugar daddy OM all of the sudden she has to look at him as complete package, not just the guy who provides excitement. When she does this and sees him only as the sugar daddy, a lousy step dad, herself as a stepmother dealing with an evil ex wife, assets split in half so he is living with her, a two year nasty divorce with OM's wife and you have shored up your weaknesses this is when you have a great chance to win her back if that is what you want.
> 
> I've had dozens of women throughout my marriage that I could have slept with and would have if I was single. But when I compared them as a whole to my wife each one only filled the need for sex/excitement. When you blow this thing up you really want to paint the picture that the OM is nothing but short term excitement when you present the reality that he is going to be getting divorced. Also you want to paint the picture to OM that guess what he gets to spend every other week with your kids, afternoons/evenings at the soccer fields hanging out with you, etc etc. I don't a whole lot of 67 year old men really want that either so he may run back to his wife/life before this whole thing explodes.


This is why I advise consulting with an attorney that has experience in divorces which involve a business. Its a much more complicated process. But, it is doable. Its all about the numbers.


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## phillybeffandswiss

CTPlay said:


> Forget philosophies, experience trumps all that.


This a hundred times. I can't explain how many dads complain when they were nice and then watch their ex jetset, with their money, all over the place with their replacement man. Yes, even when the Karma Bus hits you are still out money, time with your kids and many other things. 

Yes, I know, it becomes their money once everything is settled, but it is irksome when you KNOW you were too nice. Yes, fight for EVERYTHING and then mediate for a better outcome. To me Chivalry is dead in the courts. Fight for alimony if she makes more, 50/50 division of assets, full custody, child support and then work down until it is equitable to YOU.

When I say YOU, not what society deems nice or right for you, but what you and your lawyer feel is necessary.


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## old red

I hope that things are improving for you, Gramon.


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## Augusto

I think the OP might be gone for good. Usually happens when they are about to serve or get served and they then work on their marriage instead of coming back. If things are improving, they don't come back unless they wish to help others which in my case is 99.9% the reason.


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## Divinely Favored

turnera said:


> How can she repent when she's still cheating?


She can't! Repentance requires being sorry and turning away from the evil she is doing.


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