# Opposite sex friendship. Am I being unresonable?



## retiredvet (Jul 27, 2014)

I work in a profession dominated by females, so I had a lot of female friends before I married. My wife and I made the agreement that we would keep the friends of opposite sex that we already had, but not befriend any new opposite sex friends.

I gladely distanced myself from friends I knew before (some I did have relations with) because I do know how third party relationships can negatively impact a marriage.

So, my wife tells me about a guy at work who creeped her out because of several off the cuff comments he made to her and another coworker. 

She then gets the bright idea to try and set up the guy with a friend of hers. In doing this, opens up the line of communication with him, and all of a sudden he is not a bad guy, he was a sense of humor, etc...

I have met the guy, and he poses no threat at all, but in trying to set her friend up, she has given this guy her phone number, and now he wants to run things by her concerning his personal life and talk about my wifes friend who she tried to set him up with.

He sends her random text messages, and now they have become friends (He has gone from a creep who is not attractive, to a nice guy who is atrractive)

Now, I hace a new clinic partner who is a single woman, and my wife got pissed off cause she asked if I wanted to go to lunch (which I declined).

I do trust my wife, but I have told her the possible unintended consequences (our current rift) of bringing a third party into our marriage. She has plenty of female friends that she complains about not having the time to catch up with, so why would she even want another person biding for her time. 

I could have many new female friends texting and calling me, but I chose not to go there out of respect fr my wife, and to decrease drama...

I kindly try to explain to her how suttle the change in her perception of him became. He went from a creep, to a cool guy who has her cell phone number, and feels the comfort to chat her up at work, and text her about personal stuff. That is so not cool.

Am I being unreasonable?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Nope, not at all.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)




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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

You have every right to tell your wife that this is it acceptable to you and you want it to stop now. You also have every tight to contact him and let him know that you want this to stop and you plan on informing his employer of his in apprperate behavior with a coworker;t doesn't exactly have to be the truth, but if you report it, they have to investigate, it's like throwing a bucket of ice water on the both of them. I would go ballistic now, don't wait. These threads are littered with broken marriage from physical affairs because the BS waited.


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## I'llUseMyEars (Jul 27, 2014)

No, I dont think you are being unreasonable. It seems this is a one way street for her. It is ok for her to have a man texting her for life advice and what not, but NOT ok for you to have lunch with a co worker, female that is. If it doesnt work both ways, it cant work at all without severe issues.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Nope, I think you have appropriate boundaries and she doesn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

"So, my wife tells me about a guy at work who creeped her out because of several off the cuff comments he made to her and another coworker."

Dude!!!! You missed it!!! The very first redflag!!! She wasn't "creeped out" because of the coworker, she was "creeped out" about her own initial attraction towards him!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

It's not because she has an osf... it's because she's a hypocrite.


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## Pufferfish (Sep 25, 2013)

retiredvet said:


> He sends her random text messages, and now they have become friends (He has gone from a creep who is not attractive, to a nice guy who is atrractive)


This guy has gone from creep to attractive friend. In other words this guy has already made that amount of progress with your wife. It's disconcerting that your wife has been complicit with his progress, all under the guise of matchmaking for another friend. It might be innocent, but are you prepared to wager your wife in this gamble? I would not. Besides, how much communicating does it take to set up a date? Think about it. Better to be renegotiating boundaries than trying to wrestle her affections back from another man. 

So no, I don't think you are being unreasonable. In fact, you ignore this at your own peril.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

No, but you have explained it all to her.
YOu have to tell her you expect her to drop the friendship, but the decision is hers.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good luck telling her no. It's too late, now. But definitely tell her you want him gone.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Quid pro quo


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

As a coworker, IMO, it is okay that he is an opposite sex work friend only. That should be their only "common interest" & when the work day ends, so should all contact. No after work phone calls, texts, etc.

But that isn't what is happening here. Because they have contact outside of work, he is now more than a work friend. There is no question that he is interested in your wife. His past creepiness was probably flirting with her. Her excuse that he is only interested in your wife's friend is probably BS & she also thinks he is "attractive."

Good luck with shutting this down. Have her read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I don't understand, I work with mostly females as well, but I keep the relationships at "friendly"/co worker level ONLY.

It's within one's power to control all that.

You can choose to be friends, but it doesn't mean that by working with they you HAVE to be friends.

For OP, your wife needs to break things off/stop breaking boundaries.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

This is one giant massive sh!t test.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Nope, not at all.


:iagree:

you've got it exactly right OP


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

Not sure what unreasonable is.

Interesting story that could help you determine:

My wife became facebook friends with a guy who went to school in the neighboring town from her. He knew people she knew. I'd be shocked if they ever even talked 10 years ago in school.. Anyways, after some time, he "likes' and comments on her photos and posts all the time. She calls him a stage 5 clinger. Fast forward a few months, "he's not so bad. nice guy. i didnt mean it. hes cool. no threat etc. etc. "..they form a teetering on EA relationship (not sexual but emotional personal talks). It stopped, but they remain "pals" on facebook. 

judge for yourself.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

You're not overreacting at all. I've seen this a lot, a lot women get uncontrollably jealous about their husbands female friends but then they have no trouble making male friends of their own.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

retiredvet said:


> So, my wife tells me about a guy at work who creeped her out because of several off the cuff comments he made to her and another coworker.


 "Off the cuff comments he made to her" that "creeped her out", is code for him having hit on her with inappropriate comments. He hit on her, and wants to pursue her, and she knows it.



retiredvet said:


> She then gets the bright idea to try and set up the guy with a friend of hers. In doing this, opens up the line of communication with him, and all of a sudden he is not a bad guy, he was a sense of humor, etc...
> 
> I have met the guy, and he poses no threat at all, but in trying to set her friend up, she has given this guy her phone number, and now he wants to run things by her concerning his personal life and talk about my wifes friend who she tried to set him up with.
> 
> He sends her random text messages, and now they have become friends (He has gone from a creep who is not attractive, to a nice guy who is atrractive)


 Helping a member of the opposite sex get dates allows both parties to discuss what they are looking for in a romantic relationship; surprise, surprise, they learn that they are both compatible with each other and now she finds him attractive. This is a very inappropriate topic for a married person to be discussing with someone of the opposite sex that is not a friend of the spouse or the marriage. Him talking to her about his personal life, which I am sure she will keep in confidence from you, is one of the hallmarks of an emotional affair (EA). If she is not in an EA, she may soon be.

You have every right to tell her to end it. He is a single guy, that is attracted to your wife, that is not a friend of the marriage, that is calling your wife to discuss personal matters including romantic matters. He is using this as an excuse to pursue your wife, because if he told her the truth that he wants to f**k her, he knows that you would object and put a stop it.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

This sounds familiar. 

I was where you are 3 years ago. 

I'm now divorced and the "friend from work" is divorcing his wife to be with my ex. 

It's been a horrific experience that no one should have to endure. 

End the extracurricular activities while you still can. You'll regret it if you don't.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Congratulations! You are likely seeing player 101 on your wife. (Sarcasm)

Step 1. Get inside her emotional defences.

Our most infamous OMs played this.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

retiredvet said:


> I kindly try to explain to her how suttle the change in her perception of him became. He went from a creep, to a cool guy who has her cell phone number, and feels the comfort to chat her up at work, and text her about personal stuff. That is so not cool.
> Am I being unreasonable?


 No your not being unreasonable. Your being too low key about this. 

You kindly try to explain to her how subtle the change in her perception of him became and she, in her mind, is kindly telling you to kiss her ass and she continues.

So you need a change of direction. Do that by putting the nice guy attire in the closet and sit her down and start the conversation by saying, "Hey, I don't like this little arrangement you have going on here with this bum calling and all this talking."

Tell her "You remember the agreement we had and for some reason you think it only applies to me and your exempt from it. It stops now or if it's trouble you want, it's trouble you get and it may not be repairable and if it happens then look in the mirror and you'll see who is to blame."

Then walk away and let her know there will be no further discussion and let her know all of this in a way that she understands perfectly clear that your not putting up with it any longer.


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## CoralReef (Jul 1, 2014)

To me it sounds like she was attracted to this guy all along and simply wanted to ward you off by claiming that he was creepy and unattractive. What woman in her right mind tries to set up a creepy, unattractive man with her girlfriend? I would be mad if I were her girlfriend. This does sound like a ploy to get closer to him. Before you know it she is going to be wanting to spend one on one time with him and getting mad at you when you ask her not to. This is going south fast.


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## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

If you mutually agreed to no new opposite sex friends - I'd ask her what the deal is. Her behaviour in of itself is a breech of trust. She told you one thing and then went out and did another. You can always giver her a taste of her own medicine - sometimes that is the only way for a person to see the light.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

Double standards....:moon:

Realistically, men and women will always associate with the opposite sex...It is human nature. We are born to communicate and mate. 

To me, it seems that she is a little to concerned with her friend and their possible relationship together.

I don't find it appropriate that she is involved in that type of one on one communication. It is private obviously.

I think he is trying to get close to her.....Hence the past inappropriate comments.

The flag is flying red to me good sir!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Try this.

Become totally innocent friends with a pretty, younger, single woman.

Completely innocently, of course.

See what happens then.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

marduk said:


> Try this.
> 
> Become totally innocent friends with a pretty, younger, single woman.
> 
> ...


 This is a bad idea. The OP is at a disadvantage when he does this. The wife really has a viable potential affair partner that she is compatible with that is interested in having an affair with her. The likelihood that the husband could find such a viable potential affair partner that he is compatible with on short notice is highly unlikely. Thus the OP's other woman would be a fake other woman. The wife will know that the OP is just trying to make her jealous, and that the OP has no real intention of having an affair with this other woman, yet she will use his interaction with this fake other woman to rationalize her upping her interaction with her other man. All a fake other woman does is make the OP lose the higher ground, and any leverage that gives him, when when her tries to put an end to her very real and very inappropriate relationship with the other man.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

TRy said:


> This is a bad idea. The OP is at a disadvantage when he does this. The wife really has a viable potential affair partner that she is compatible with that is interested in having an affair with her. The likelihood that the husband could find such a viable potential affair partner that he is compatible with on short notice is highly unlikely. Thus the OP's other woman would be a fake other woman. The wife will know that the OP is just trying to make her jealous, and that the OP has no real intention of having an affair with this other woman, yet she will use his interaction with this fake other woman to rationalize her upping her interaction with her other man. All a fake other woman does is make the OP lose the higher ground, and any leverage that gives him, when when her tries to put an end to her very real and very inappropriate relationship with the other man.


I will tell you this.

My wife would not give up going out continuously with her friends, hanging out with her girlfriends and other guys, and going away for girls trips.

And would not admit that she was playing with fire.

Until her hot friend hit on me in front of her of course, and I started going out, too.

All the attempts to reason, beg, plead, all that stuff just made me look weak and insecure to her.

But it all ended when I started doing what she did.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

retiredvet said:


> I work in a profession dominated by females, so I had a lot of female friends before I married. My wife and I made the agreement that we would keep the friends of opposite sex that we already had, but not befriend any new opposite sex friends.
> 
> I gladely distanced myself from friends I knew before (some I did have relations with) because I do know how third party relationships can negatively impact a marriage.
> 
> ...


Nope not at all. This was discussed prior to marriage and she isn't holding up her end of the deal


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## maverick23 (May 2, 2014)

Keep your eye on the 'why'...

Humans are always seeking affirmation, especially from opposite sex. Those that are less self aware or at least aware of this phenomenon are well documented on TAM.

She's simply getting flirtatious attention that makes her feel good about herself. Why would she stop? She would need a strong combination of:

-Self-confidence
-Respect for you
-Respect for marriage as an institution
-Emotional intimacy with you

My wife hasn't grasped the concept of emotional affair unfortunately, so we are not out of the woods. But at least for yourself, understand why she is doing it. If you can make her understand, please post how you were able to do that successfully!


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

retiredvet said:


> I work in a profession dominated by females, so I had a lot of female friends before I married. My wife and I made the agreement that we would keep the friends of opposite sex that we already had, but not befriend any new opposite sex friends.
> 
> I gladely distanced myself from friends I knew before (some I did have relations with) because I do know how third party relationships can negatively impact a marriage.
> 
> ...


Retiredvet: "Did we agree or not agree to not make new OSF's once we married?"
Retiredvet's W:"But (insert any of a number of justifications why she should have this man as a friend)?"
RV: "Again, did we agree or not agree to not make new OSF's once we married?"
RV'sW: "But (insert any of a number of complaints about fairness and how many OSF RV had prior to marriage)."
RV: "Did we agree or not agree to not make new OSF's once we married?" 

continue this for another 5 minutes...

Finally
RV'sW: "Yes we agreed, but (got back to above)"
RV: "I've lived up to my end of this mutual boundary. I've had opportunity and walked away from it. You're promoting it. You need to end it with Joe Bag-O-Donuts".

INSERT more complaining, justifications and blaming

RV: "So you're saying this man is more important that our marriage agreements? You need to choose now, your relationship with him, or your relationship with me because I'm adhering to what we laid out as important to our marriage, and your relationship with Joe is breaking that."


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## Nigel Pinchley (Jul 29, 2014)

First impressions are often incomplete, especially with coworkers as we may interact with them on a daily basis and get to know them better. That in mind, I don't find your wife's initial dislike turning to like to be out of the ordinary.

Where it starts to become slippery is when she got involved indirectly in his love life. We can theorize all day long what her underlying motive for that was, (jealousy, secret attraction, etc), but really only you know her well enough to know the signs.

While most people here will cry foul at it, in our hyper-connected working world, it's almost expected that all of our coworkers have our personal phone numbers, at least for those coworkers on our various teams/projects. Right or wrong, that's pretty much how it is for many American companies, and at every job I've ever held, all of my coworkers, including the women, have had my number.

But again, where it gets slippery are the after hours, non work related texts, esp about his love life. I don't think it's unreasonable of you to ask that she no longer do that.

As to the overarching question, I don't personally think it's realistic to think that someone would never become friends with a coworker of either gender. This is someone that they see all day, and for probably more waking hours than they see you. I think it's a good concept, I just don't think it's realistic.

However, I do think it's perfectly reasonable for you to set boundaries of what you will and won't accept as far as all this goes. I think that's your next step, having some serious conversations with your wife about all of this, about boundaries, and see how she acts.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

retiredvet said:


> I have met the guy, and he poses no threat at all...


Famous last words.

People tend to affair down, he's exactly the type of person your W could have an A with given time.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Tobyboy said:


> "So, my wife tells me about a guy at work who creeped her out because of several off the cuff comments he made to her and another coworker."
> 
> Dude!!!! You missed it!!! The very first redflag!!! She wasn't "creeped out" because of the coworker, she was "creeped out" about her own initial attraction towards him!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 My thoughts exactly.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Why you have to do this kind of research before you get married.

You had a discussion on OSF a while ago, groundwork laid. Now you tell her how you feel about it now, she doesn't seem to care. You threw your cards on the table, her reaction to that tells you all you need to know. She values this relationship more than your feelings.

No you're not being unreasonable, at all. This guy is gaming your wife.

Of course you can stop it, you can actively defend your relationship against this threat. But the fact that you have to tells me you're going to have some troubles in your relationship. There's always going to be predators that want to do an end around and stick it to your wife. If the only thing keeping it from happening is your actions, you're in for a bumpy ride. It is your wife's responsibility to maintain clear and proper boundaries.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Congratulations! You are likely seeing player 101 on your wife. (Sarcasm)
> 
> Step 1. Get inside her emotional defences.
> 
> Our most infamous OMs played this.


:iagree: dvlsadvc8 had an epic post once (unfortunately, I couldn't find it--hope it hasn't been deleted) describing how these guys penetrate various layers of defense (boundaries) without the "victim" even realizing this is happening. Sounds like this guy has breached the outer layer.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Philat said:


> :iagree: dvlsadvc8 had an epic post once (unfortunately, I couldn't find it--hope it hasn't been deleted) describing how these guys penetrate various layers of defense (boundaries) without the "victim" even realizing this is happening. Sounds like this guy has breached the outer layer.


I'd love to see his take on it. Someone link it.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Tobyboy said:


> "So, my wife tells me about a guy at work who creeped her out because of several off the cuff comments he made to her and another coworker."
> 
> Dude!!!! You missed it!!! The very first redflag!!! She wasn't "creeped out" because of the coworker, she was "creeped out" about her own initial attraction towards him!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

I would ask her to cut off all contact. 

This is exactly why my husband and I have a rule that we don't spend one-on-one time with anyone of the opposite sex. Out of respect for each other and our marriage, we will never run into an issue like this.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

weightlifter said:


> I'd love to see his take on it. Someone link it.


I too would like seeing this link. Perhaps it was deleted though? If it was accurate it could certainly be used for nefarious purposes.

Lets face it- a LOT of people (perhaps even the majority) are on TAM because of marriage issues. Such a post would be potentially destructive to marriages on the edge..


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

What happened to you, OP?


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

This is simple and although having strayed from CWI, you'll get some very decent CWI vet advice ..

You 'nice' this and your marriage will be over in double quick time. 

He''s already 'in' and so is 'she'. They both sauntered into the red zone.

Dealing with this in any way less than a mallet and you will end up posting in CWI sooner than later.

Don't think too long about it


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

maverick23 said:


> My wife hasn't grasped the concept of emotional affair unfortunately, so we are not out of the woods.


maverick, have you tried this: Ask her to imagine her OM in the same room as the two of you. Ask her to imagine telling him ALL the stuff she's told him - in front of you.

Give her a few minutes. Then ask her if she understands now that what she did was inappropriate.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> maverick, have you tried this: Ask her to imagine her OM in the same room as the two of you. Ask her to imagine telling him ALL the stuff she's told him - in front of you.
> 
> Give her a few minutes. Then ask her if she understands now that what she did was inappropriate.


Sounds like a fruitless activity. Someone who could justify the communication is not going to have the introspection necessary to make this click.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

maverick23 said:


> Keep your eye on the 'why'...
> 
> Humans are always seeking affirmation, especially from opposite sex. Those that are less self aware or at least aware of this phenomenon are well documented on TAM.
> 
> ...


I can smell the codependency over the Internet. You're trying to MAKE your wife meet your boundary expectations. Not going to happen. In that kind of relationship you're 24/7 PI taking responsibility for your wife's actions, that's not healthy.

Establish YOUR boundaries and let her DECIDE if she wants to follow them or choose her desires over your feelings.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

TRy said:


> This is a bad idea. The OP is at a disadvantage when he does this. The wife really has a viable potential affair partner that she is compatible with that is interested in having an affair with her. The likelihood that the husband could find such a viable potential affair partner that he is compatible with on short notice is highly unlikely. Thus the OP's other woman would be a fake other woman. The wife will know that the OP is just trying to make her jealous, and that the OP has no real intention of having an affair with this other woman, yet she will use his interaction with this fake other woman to rationalize her upping her interaction with her other man. All a fake other woman does is make the OP lose the higher ground, and any leverage that gives him, when when her tries to put an end to her very real and very inappropriate relationship with the other man.


you have a point here. but I think if a spouse is pushing a boundary - i.e. displaying to you a bit of disrespect - then if responding in kind has some value (which I think it does) - the disrespected spouse should simply choose any boundary they please to cross, in response. 
e.g. husband does not like wife's wild GNOs; talking with her does no good. in repsonse husband starts viewing pornography on home computer (wife had asked him not to). i.e. one doesn't have to pay an act of disrespect with the exact same act.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Porn? Wouldn't it make more sense to response with an act that STILL manages to convey some sort of INTEGRITY?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

turnera said:


> Porn? Wouldn't it make more sense to response with an act that STILL manages to convey some sort of INTEGRITY?


I agree. just an illustration of what I meant. am sure it would pay to think carefully about what one's response should be. reviewing all the options etc. I think offended spouse needs to take some type of action. not just continue complaining.......
It might be that a bit of the 180 is the optimal response - pulling back from the relationship in some ways TBD...


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Did everyone miss in the first post that the OP says that some of these former female friends that his wife wanted him to no longer contact he'd "had relations with?"

That doesn't make these people opposite sex friends, that makes them exes and former sex partners. Did your wife know that you'd slept with several of these women, OP?

If she did that probably was part of the original conversation about OSF, and she might imagine this situation is different.


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