# Violence is never ok?



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

So what do you think is this a true statement or are there times when violence is required?

Is defending yourself violence?

Is causing someone emotional pain violence?

Is going to war violence? 


I'm not trying to cause a ruckus here I an truley interested in opinions.

Is standing up to a bully violence?

Who about social media bullying is that violence?


Is an heated argument where both people raise their voice or scream violence?


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

I believe most of those are indeed violence.

But I would say they are all commonly justified or "ok".


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Violence never solves anything! Well...except gaining the U.S. its independence as a nation, ending slavery, stopping the nazis, etc.

I guess the more accurate statement is "Violence is never ok, except when it is." "Violence never solves anything, except when it does."

In my own life experience I've found that violence did solve several things that have come up over the years. Very nicely too.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Yes, there are instances where violence is justified and mandatory. Blanket statements disparaging violence are just a way for naive people to signal to other naive people how virtuous they are. For the record, there are also times that lying is justified and mandatory. 

Raising one's voice is not violence. Social media bullying, while wrong, is not violence. Violence is physical harm. When you classify harsh words as violence, you cheapen the plight of those who really were affected by unjust physical harm.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

Context matters. We all know that sometimes violence is necessary and appropriate.

Where we hear "Violence is never ok" is within the context of specific situations. So the question arises: In what situations do we hear that statement?

Once concrete contextual circumstances are identified, it'll be easier to analyze the validity of that statement in a more nuanced way.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Is the death penalty violence?

I have read some definitions that say psychological abuse is violence.

The burning bed comes to mind.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

chillymorn69 said:


> So what do you think is this a true statement or are there times when violence is required?
> 
> Is defending yourself violence?
> 
> ...



As someone with a concealed carry license, who has spent a considerable amount of time learning about when deadly force is legally allowed, I do have some opinions on violence and when it is appropriate.

One of the overriding rules in the use of deadly force is that the use of a weapon is such a situation should be both what a reasonable person would feel is required to be done and proportional to the force used by the opponent. Deadly force is on the extreme end of violence.

Most concealed carry courses suggest both carrying a deadly force weapon and a "less lethal" weapon (taser or pepper spray), so proportionate response can be used if needed.

Now as to your specific questions:


1. Is defending yourself violence? How you respond needs to be proportional and reasonable.

2. Is causing someone emotional pain violence? It is not civil, but you will not be arrested for assault.

3. Is going to war violence? It can be very violent, but moral and justified, but if you act within reason you will not be arrested.

4. Is standing up to a bully violence? No, not as long as proportionate response is used and especially not if you initially tried to de-escalate the situation.

5. Who about social media bullying is that violence? Generally no. But forcefully responding to a bully is OK if proportionate response and staying factual and not getting into an emotional name calling.

6.Is an heated argument where both people raise their voice or scream violence? No, sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Not civilized, but not violence.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

"Violence is the gold standard, the reserve that guarantees order."
Violence is Golden ? Jack Donovan


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The term "violence" covers a lot of ground. 

I think that intentionally causing harm to others should be reserved to:

1) Direct defense of yourself or someone else.

2) That harm that is codified into law


I'll give people a pass on verbal violence brought on by sudden rage, or under exceptional conditions, even allow physical violence. If you just saw someone shoot your child, then I'm not going to object to your killing them, even if they were no longer a threat.

In general though, I think violence by individuals is almost always wrong.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Violence should be used only as the last resort. There are times when it's justified. There are times when war is justified.

When used in defense of self or others... it's justified.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Unfortunately we are humans and violence is just part of our natural equation. I have been suprised how often things seem to naturally fall into a violent outcome. Much of that has been shaped what I have witnessed over very violent career.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Violence is never ok?
Lol.

It's moral preening and virtue signaling.
Given the chance, the same people would use iagainst another person.

Yes, violence is justified at times. 
And legally it doesn't necessarily have to be proportionate either.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Mmmm... Violence...

*licking my lips, eyes narrowing, smiling*

Now all I feel is thirst...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

chillymorn69 said:


> So what do you think is this a true statement or are there times when violence is required?
> 
> Is defending yourself violence?


Sweet, sweet violence...



> Is causing someone emotional pain violence?


When it is your enemies, oh the satisfaction!



> Is going to war violence?


Errr... well duh!



> Is standing up to a bully violence?


Oooo, one of the sweetest kinds!



> Who about social media bullying is that violence?


Ey? Meh, doesn't salivate like the thought of ripping apart someone's... (oh the horror! the horror! the horror!) ...



> Is an heated argument where both people raise their voice or scream violence?


Meh, not satisfying.

Ok thirst is gone, you ruined it >.<


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

why do you believe that?



Windwalker said:


> Violence is never ok?
> snip
> Given the chance, the same people would use iagainst another person.
> snip
> .


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

uhtred said:


> why do you believe that?


Because I have seen it.
The principle has been demonstrated recently at that.
The examples are numerous and political, hence they belong in the politics and religion forum.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> Violence is never ok?
> So what do you think is this a true statement or are there times when violence is required?
> 
> *Unfortunately, there are times when violence may be the only resort*
> ...


My answers are in bold. 

I'll add this, if you believe in personal responsibility, then you don't get to use someone else's bad acts to justify yours. So, for example, hitting a woman because she cheated is wrong just as hitting a woman because she burned dinner....IF you believe in personal responsibility.


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