# The Long Haul



## Grapes

As my marriage breaks down and i reflect on the years past I'm finding myself pondering a successful Long Term Relationship/marriage not fraught with drama, fighting, and all the hard work we read about here. This message bored and all the pain that lives within is a stark reminder that marriage and LTR's take alot of work.

When I look at my parents relationship over the years (from youth to now), married many years now, I dont remember seeing a loving couple. I do remember seeing a team. I remember fighting, coldness etc but they always seemed to work as a team. They figured it out but it couldn't have been easy from what I recall.

Im wondering if there is such a thing where 2 people just get along? The relationship is just natural. The hard work takes place naturally without it being considered hardwork. Anyone have a relationship that just works? What is it like?


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## jld

Yes, absolutely! If your marriage feels like "a lot of work," you probably are not married to the right person.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

I think there are certainly some out there like that, but it's the exception rather than the norm.


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## Taxman

I believe the answer lies in your attitude. We have been together for over 40 years, married for 38. For the first ten years, I did not work at the marriage. I took it as a given thing. Then, through a vast amount of stupidity, I cheated. I was tossed into the street, lost everything. We did things to cut each other to the quick. She did the one thing I did not expect and had a revenge affair. We trashed our marriage. Period. 

I had a moment of clarity. I realized that I was throwing away the best thing that ever happened to me. We took a long time to reconcile. We dated and courted all over again. We came to realize that marriage is a living thing. It needs kindness and empathy to survive. It does not need harsh words and judgement. 

Using that formula, and putting oneself into a mindset that this, your partner, is the most important person in your life, your best friend and your sounding board. That making love with this person is the most important act of your time with them. That you reserve yourself for only one person. I don't say that you live for your husband/wife. I say that you always consider that you are two, rather than one.


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## Spicy

My first marriage was as you described. Difficult, constant work, for little or no result. The first five years were wonderful before the mental and emotional illnesses set in.

I spent the final years of that marriage separated and figuring out what I needed in a marriage mate for it to be as my parents was. A "team" is a perfect description you picked. It was far from perfection, and they struggled and had to work through plenty....but...they were a great team, and they were very in love. They took a lot of time to nurture their marriage. Lots of weekends away, romantic vacations, date nights. Lots of respect of each other, and great communication. I remember people giving them a hard time for not taking me on some of these trips. Those people are all long since divorced, and my parents were truly happily married their whole lives/relationship.

So in my second marriage mate I really looked for someone who I could be an amazing team with, and be in love with. I found him. Although we have our moments, like ALL couples do, we have a wonderful marriage and it would be described as "easy" by most people. 

For those thinking of throwing their hat back in the marriage ring....don't settle. Know what you want and then find it.


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## SunCMars

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> I think there are certainly some out there like that, but it's the exception rather than the norm.


Wow!

That is a pessimistic take. 

What is it now? Forty to fifty percent of 1st time marriages end up in divorce. The stats are higher for subsequent marriages.

I would put the happy marriages at about 30 percent. No data to back me up. 

Divorce used to be taboo.

Now, while painful, they are usually the right answer in this short life we live. Why waste your limited time with the wrong person. We have 6 billion other folks to choose from!

Me? I have been married 46 years. I have the scars to prove it. I do not throw away anything.


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## Emerging Buddhist

If we spent more time listening and vetting (learning to know the real person) instead of reacting in early love then our percentages of successful marriages may improve.

Then, as the vetting process should have done it's job, spend the next many years continuing to listen and learning, contributing to the strength of one's relationship... not drawing it down. 

I base that on personal experience only... the school of hard knocks aside, more the like the kindergarten of getting the **** beat out of me needing to learn this.

Forever working on it...


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## CharlieParker

Emerging Buddhist said:


> If we spent more time listening and vetting (learning to know the real person) instead of reacting in early love then our percentages of successful marriages may improve.


Very true. My wife and I worked together for about 6 years before getting together romantically. We were a really good team, enjoyed being with one another and generally just had a blast. We still work well together, even on the marriage, and that "work" usually is in reaction to forces outside of the marriage. And we still have a blast a laugh a lot.

I was talking to a single friend recently about online dating. They said in real life one interacts with other swithout assessing if they are a possible mate, you just get to know people first. They said OLD is the exact opposite, one assesses mating potential before getting to know the other person.


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## Emerging Buddhist

SunCMars said:


> Me? I have been married 46 years. I have the scars to prove it. I do not throw away anything.


I am forever thankful my wife decided this very trust with us...


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## tropicalbeachiwish

SunCMars said:


> Wow!
> 
> That is a pessimistic take.
> 
> What is it now? Forty to fifty percent of 1st time marriages end up in divorce. The stats are higher for subsequent marriages.
> 
> I would put the happy marriages at about 30 percent. No data to back me up.
> 
> Divorce used to be taboo.
> 
> Now, while painful, they are usually the right answer in this short life we live. Why waste your limited time with the wrong person. We have 6 billion other folks to choose from!
> 
> Me? I have been married 46 years. I have the scars to prove it. I do not throw away anything.


It's realistic. You said you have scars from it. That tells me that it hasn't been easy. The OP was asking if there are any marriages out there that just come naturally without any hard work. There are plenty of successful marriages out there, but I just don't believe that they come naturally without hard work.


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## browser

My GF of 5 years and I get along great. We never fight, we rarely disagree and when we do it never comes to the point of raised voices or name calling, more like one of us is in a bad mood or whatever. 

I've had relationships with a lot of fighting and arguing. 

I don't think that making a relationship work, and not having conflict takes a lot of work- at least not as an ongoing day to day thing.

It takes work to meet the right person, and work on yourself and any anger issues and other negative personality traits. But if you get yourself to a good place, and meet someone who is relatively stable, who you have a lot in common with, who doesn't resort to fighting when things don't go your way, you've got it mostly figured out.

Took me more than half a century to get there, but it can be done. 

If I can offer one tip: Don't stay in bad relationships. 

If I can offer a second tip: It's not always the other person's fault. If it seems that way, a lot..especially with more than one person.. then you might need some serious introspection.


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## Grapes

Thanks for all the insights into your marriages. 

I dont think i have personally witnessed a marriage, where I may be a close enough friend to know the real relationship, that was effortless. 

The hopeless romantic in me likes to think that this actually exists. Like spicy's description.

The realistic side of me kind of agrees with tropical in that they are rare.

I guess most fall somewhere in between.


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## Grapes

browser said:


> My GF of 5 years and I get along great. We never fight, we rarely disagree and when we do it never comes to the point of raised voices or name calling, more like one of us is in a bad mood or whatever.
> 
> I've had relationships with a lot of fighting and arguing.
> 
> I don't think that making a relationship work, and not having conflict takes a lot of work- at least not as an ongoing day to day thing.
> 
> It takes work to meet the right person, and work on yourself and any anger issues and other negative personality traits. But if you get yourself to a good place, and meet someone who is relatively stable, who you have a lot in common with, who doesn't resort to fighting when things don't go your way, you've got it mostly figured out.
> 
> Took me more than half a century to get there, but it can be done.
> 
> If I can offer one tip: Don't stay in bad relationships.
> 
> If I can offer a second tip: It's not always the other person's fault. If it seems that way, a lot..especially with more than one person.. then you might need some serious introspection.


Thanks browser - This is a good point i think you bring up. The effort comes from finding the right person, and knowing when its the wrong person ie: dont settle.

on your second tip - This IS actually an introspection I need to consider but for the opposite reason. I tend to always take the blame, be the one to apologize just to keep the peace. I recognize this which is a good thing. It does go both ways with the opposite having your backbone so to speak.


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## Yeswecan

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> It's realistic. You said you have scars from it. That tells me that it hasn't been easy. The OP was asking if there are any marriages out there that just come naturally without any hard work. There are plenty of successful marriages out there, but I just don't believe that they come naturally without hard work.


^^^ I don't think that marriages are naturally flowing from the get go. It takes time and many years to become the flowing couple who really do know each other. In my mind, to get there it requires complete openness.


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## Yeswecan

Grapes said:


> TThis IS actually an introspection I need to consider but for the opposite reason. I tend to always take the blame, be the one to apologize just to keep the peace. I recognize this which is a good thing. It does go both ways with the opposite having your backbone so to speak.


Pick your battles wisely as they say.


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## Taxman

We do our darnedest to avoid a disagreement. We divvy up the duties that could cause friction, for example, we are both financial professionals, I handle the taxes, she does the banking, does the payments, and we both do the investing, (she has more of a stomach for risk than I do) which can be fun. I don't think that a marriage can just naturally be something living without the participants actually breathing life into it. Without that, it can easily wither and die.


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## Blondilocks

Anyone in a long-term marriage will have a few scars. They come from growth and change. If people didn't grow and change, both partners would be bored out of their minds. Negotiating the changes can be hard and people need to be willing to accommodate the changes for the marriage to continue and be successful.

If it is worth having, it is worth working for.


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## TX-SC

My wife and I work well together. Yes, there are disagreements but very rarely is there an "argument" between us. It does take work to make a long term marriage successful, but it's well worth it.


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## SimplyAmorous

Grapes said:


> As my marriage breaks down and i reflect on the years past I'm finding myself pondering a successful Long Term Relationship/marriage not fraught with drama, fighting, and all the hard work we read about here. This message bored and all the pain that lives within is a stark reminder that marriage and LTR's take alot of work.
> 
> When I look at my parents relationship over the years (from youth to now), married many years now, I dont remember seeing a loving couple. I do remember seeing a team. I remember fighting, coldness etc but they always seemed to work as a team. They figured it out but it couldn't have been easy from what I recall.
> 
> *Im wondering if there is such a thing where 2 people just get along? The relationship is just natural. The hard work takes place naturally without it being considered hardwork. Anyone have a relationship that just works? What is it like?*


I will take a stab at this as I feel we would fit this description... we met in our teens, dated for over 6 yrs before we married.. we grew as best friends before we kissed/ was intimate...we've always been that couple that just enjoys doing everything together...we had the same dreams/ values, wanted a family, to live in the country, both savers, both homebodies, both very affectionate, we've never had secrets, what I have described as a "willing transparency" with each other - there was a great foundation of trust between us early on... 

After being married 20 + yrs, landing here reading so much on marriage/ sex ....when I came across Dr Harley's "Marriage Builders" website from links given here on TAM...it was eye opening as so much of what he speaks, we've always lived, for the most part.. 

WE missed it in 1 area particularly ...when going through years of infertility (this our biggest hardship)...it took a toll on *MY attitude* ...throwing a monkey wrench into our lives... he wanted more sex.. I was oblivious and too focused on conceiving at the time ... looking back.. he was very patient and loving with me... I married a wonderful man.. 

It's like you said in the beginning of your post...you mentioned DRAMA / fighting.. too much of this is when a couple starts feeling like it's *"work"* being married... this wears a couple down...zaps their energy, enthusiasm.....a couple becomes disconnected...often resentment seeps in, or APATHY ...someone is not pulling their weight, feeling rejected intimately (my husband felt some of this too ...I wasn't "getting it", he was too passive also)...so we had our mistakes, like any other couple along the way... never anything near a sexless marriage...I always loved sex, wanted my "O"... he felt this..I guess it kept him satisfied enough..but those were the "dry" years...

Ironically...I landed on this forum due to my sex drive suddenly going through the roof (mid life hormones)...He was struggling to keep up...but due to how he's always been... He did everything in his power to be there for me...we went through my 1st threads here together...he never shut me out, pushed me away, he was loving it too, just wanted to keep up.... that's all I've really known.. 

If anything.. I am the more difficult partner, harder to please, not as patient... but he would say I am "easy" to live with... 

I have often felt had I been with someone else...it probably wouldn't be this way at all.. but more of a struggle, striving...a lot more compromising...as I can be awfully particular in some areas that I could see raging conflict if I was with a man I wasn't *compatible* with.... I feel this is the key ....also self awareness, a forgiving spirit after a tiff / words spoken in haste, wanting to please each other- DO for each other...

It's so important feeling as a Team ...sensitive to each others emotional needs as well as physical... what "His Needs , Her Needs"  is all about..

This doesn't mean we don't fight on occasion.. we DO! It can even become volatile, thanks to a little PMS ....I've had my moments.. but then it always ends in Make up sex... our fights are short, we never let the sun go down on our anger... 

So the great majority of the time.. we get along like we're still that young couple, it's like the dopamine is stirred within getting off alone with him & leaving the kids behind...we like to banter, I flirt a lot, probably more than him....he's got a sense of humor I love.. he's my "home", my best friend, my lover.... he's the only person in the world I could spend 24 hrs with a day and not want to throw him off a cliff...


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## SimplyAmorous

*On the subject of Conflict*... there are different styles of it...just as people have different temperament types... one style is not better over another (unless we are talking "hostile" -below) ...they are just different.. I guess this could be another area of compatibility.....it's so much more about resolving and moving on together ...how vital it is to marital happiness & harmony....



> Dealing with Conflict in Marriage: Four Types of Couples..
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> Couples perceptions, thoughts, values, and feelings influence how they interpret conflict situations, and can strongly shape the outcomes of conflicts. However, the three elements of conflict, issue, relationship, and emotion, must be dealt with if the conflict is to be resolved. The way that couples respond to interpersonal conflicts could either be constructive or destructive to their relationships.
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> *** *The 5 to 1 Ratio in Marriage Conflicts*
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> According to John Gottman, marriage relationship researcher, negative interactions are balanced by positive ones in stable marriages. The dynamics of the balance between negativity and positivity are what separate contented couples from discontented ones.....
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> In stable marriages, there is a very specific ratio, 5 to 1, between the amount of positive feelings and interactions and negative interactions. In contrast, couples who are likely to divorce, have too little positive interactions to compensate for the for the rising negativity in their marriages.
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> According to Gottman , positivity must outweigh negativity 5 to 1, whether couples have intense fights or avoid conflicts completely. There are successful adjustments in these marriages that keep the couples together. Low level of conflicts between couples does not necessarily indicate marital happiness. On the other hand, it seems the intensity of the argument between some couples brings out the true color in their marriages.
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> *The Four Types of Couples*
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> According to Gottman, there are three types of problem-solving approaches in healthy marriages, volatile, validating, and conflict-avoiding. These three approaches can lead to stable and enduring marriages. However, a fourth approach to conflict resolution, hostile, is likely to end in divorce.
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> Gottman explains how certain important qualities of each approach predict whether or not a marriage will end in divorce.
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> *1. *Volatile Couples
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> For volatile couples, conflicts erupt easily, and are fought on grand scale, but of course, making up is even greater! These couples have passionate disputes, and frequent and passionate arguments.
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> According to Gottman, while volatile fight openly, they argue with a lot of wit, display fondness for each other, and have a great time making up. It seems that their volcanic arguments are just a small part of their warm and loving relationship.
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> It appears that passion and fighting lead to better relationships which include making up, laughing, and affection. So despite the level of their argument, they still resolve their differences.
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> Volatile couples see themselves as equals, and exhibit individuality and independence in their marriage. They are open with each other about their positive and negative feelings, and their marriages tend to be passionate and exciting.
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> Gottman’s research indicates that their frequent arguments are balanced out by their positive interactions such as touching, smiling, paying complements, and laughing, and so on. So these couples stick together for the long haul.
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> *2. *Validating Couples
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> Couples who are validators, fight more politely. They are calmer during conflicts, and behave like collaborators as they work through their problems. These couples often compromise, and seek to work out their problems steadily for mutually satisfying results. The mutual respect that they have for each other, limits the amount and level of their arguments.
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> The emphasis is on communication and compromise, so even if they have heated discussion, they validate each other. They do this by expressing empathy for, and understanding each other’s point of view. Very evident, is their display of care, calm, and self-control even when they discussing hot topics.
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> Validating couples try to persuade their partners, and find a common ground in the end. During conflict, they let each other know they value their opinions, and see their emotions as legitimate. In disagreement, validating couples, let their partners know they still consider their feelings, even though they don’t necessarily agree with their position.
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> *3.* Conflict-Avoiding Couples
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> Conflict-avoiding couples rarely argue, and it seems that they avoid confrontation at all cost. When they discuss their conflicts they do so mildly and carefully, as they don’t feel that there is much to be gained from getting openly angry with each other.
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> These couples agree to disagree, and rarely confront their differences, that could end up in deadlocked discussions. According to Gottman, conflict-avoiding couples believe that their common ground and values are much greater than their differences, and this makes their differences insignificant or easy to accept.
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> These couples have an avoidant style of marriage, so rather than discussing a conflict with their partners, some spouse often try to fix the situation on their own, or hope that with the passage of time the problems will work themselves out.
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> *4. *Hostile Couples...
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> Hostile couples argue often and hotly, and their arguments are caustic and harmful. Insults, putdowns, and sarcasms prevail when they argue. These couples fail to maintain the 5 to 1 ratio of positivity to negativity in their conflicts, and there is clearly more negative than positive in the relationships.
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> Hostile couples’ discussions are characterized by too much criticisms, contempt, defensiveness, and withdrawal. Their communication is unhealthy, they don’t listen to what each other is saying, and conflicts are dangerous to their relationships.
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> Some hostile couples try to actively address their disagreements, but this is usually ineffective. Others remain more detached, uninvolved, and critical of each other, with brief spurts of attack and defensiveness. These couples are meaner to each other than the other three types of couples..


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