# No Holds Pbarred...



## Pbartender

Within six hours of being divorced, and...


I've removed her as a beneficiary from my retirement account and life insurance policy.
I've switched over all the utility bills to her name.
I've stopped automatic withdrawals from my bank account for the mortgage.
I paid in my required half of the mortgage for this month.
I learned that she doesn't have to refinance... Our mortgage lender will let her do a quick and simple mortgage assumption.

Then S15 and I made broiled chicken and stuffing for dinner... Topped off with a couple of beers and a bag of pork rinds.

Not a bad start.

:smthumbup:


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## vi_bride04

What lender do you go through? 

Congrats!


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## Pbartender

LoanCare handles it.


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## angelpixie

Awesome, Pbar!!! I hope you feel just as relieved as I did when it's all over. I was afraid I'd be hit with some surprise emotion at the time of the actual hearing, but it didn't happen. Just blessed, blessed relief, and oh yeah, feeling 180 lbs lighter, lol. 

Congrats on handling this with class and panache and humor. You are a good example for others here on TAM.


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## sarcasmo

Pbartender said:


> Within six hours of being divorced, and...
> 
> 
> I've removed her as a beneficiary from my retirement account and life insurance policy.
> I've switched over all the utility bills to her name.
> I've stopped automatic withdrawals from my bank account for the mortgage.
> I paid in my required half of the mortgage for this month.
> I learned that she doesn't have to refinance... Our mortgage lender will let her do a quick and simple mortgage assumption.
> 
> Then S15 and I made broiled chicken and stuffing for dinner... Topped off with a couple of beers and a bag of pork rinds.
> 
> Not a bad start.
> 
> :smthumbup:


Glad you are doing so well, but I don't think it's appropriate for your 15 year old to have beers with you yet.


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## whitehawk

Congrats pb your firing , you'll need a holiday soon at this rate. 
Wish l had your lender . We have to basically do a whole new app if we wanna do that , suckkkss !


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## BK23

Mazel Tov!


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## Pam

You have done this so well. Congratulations on that.

I know the rest is bittersweet, but you will continue to do well.


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## Pbartender

Just talked to the landlady...

A 2-bedroom apartment just opened up. They're working on it now, cleaning it up and installing new carpet and such.

It'll be ready to move in by September 1st.

Going to go take a look this afternoon.

:smthumbup:


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## mablenc

Don't forget to change your passwords and security codes.


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## Pbartender

mablenc said:


> Don't forget to change your passwords and security codes.


Already done.

:smthumbup:


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## mablenc

Pbartender said:


> Already done.
> 
> :smthumbup:


Good now go buy new clothes get an new haircut and warn the ladies there's a new sheriff in town!


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## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> *Then S15 and I made broiled chicken and stuffing for dinner... *Topped off with a couple of beers and a bag of pork rinds.


...And you forgot to invite me over. LOL.

Congrats to you for getting "house" in order and taking the next steps on this new journey in your life.  Woo hoo!


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## Jellybeans

mablenc said:


> Good now go buy new clothes get an new haircut and warn the ladies there's a new sheriff in town!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Pbartender

Pbartender said:


> Just talked to the landlady...
> 
> A 2-bedroom apartment just opened up. They're working on it now, cleaning it up and installing new carpet and such.
> 
> It'll be ready to move in by September 1st.
> 
> Going to go take a look this afternoon.
> 
> :smthumbup:


And... it turns out there's a 3-BR townhome ready to go!

I'll turn in the application and security deposit next week, and I'll move in on Sep. 14th!

:smthumbup: :smthumbup:

What fantastic luck!


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## angelpixie

House-warming party at PBar's!! :toast::woohoo:


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## BURNT KEP

Good luck this is great news I wish you all the best.


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## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> And... it turns out there's a 3-BR townhome ready to go!
> 
> I'll turn in the application and security deposit next week, and I'll move in on Sep. 14th!
> 
> :smthumbup: :smthumbup:
> 
> What fantastic luck!


That's awesome! 

Of course anything you can get without rooms full of trash bags and having to worry about your food disappearing will be nice.


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## Pluto2

Pbartender said:


> And... it turns out there's a 3-BR townhome ready to go!
> 
> I'll turn in the application and security deposit next week, and I'll move in on Sep. 14th!
> 
> :smthumbup: :smthumbup:
> 
> What fantastic luck!


This is fabulous! That should be plenty of room for the three of you! (and all of us)


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## Jellybeans

That's awesome news, Pbar. :smthumbup:



angelpixie said:


> House-warming party at PBar's!! :toast::woohoo:


I'll bring the Coronas.


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## Pbartender

So... The divorce was final Wednesday afternoon.

Since then, XW was gone Wednesday night and last night, and she's leaving today go on a trip somewhere (she hasn't told any of us where) for the rest of the weekend.

As you know, the kids and I, in the meantime, have been making plans to find to new place and move in.

Last night was a little rough for D13... She knocked on my bedroom door at 1 am, waking me up. She wanted to know if I wanted to sit up with her and watch a show, because she couldn't sleep. I did. We talked a bit too. Said she couldn't sleep because she couldn't stop thinking about stuff... All mixed up with worry and excitement about what's going on.

So, we stayed up for a bit and watched The Simpsons, until she fell asleep.


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## zillard

Pbartender said:


> So... The divorce was final Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> Since then, XW was gone Wednesday night and last night, and she's leaving today go on a trip somewhere (she hasn't told any of us where) for the rest of the weekend.
> 
> As you know, the kids and I, in the meantime, have been making plans to find to new place and move in.
> 
> Last night was a little rough for D13... She knocked on my bedroom door at 1 am, waking me up. She wanted to know if I wanted to sit up with her and watch a show, because she couldn't sleep. I did. We talked a bit too. Said she couldn't sleep because she couldn't stop thinking about stuff... All mixed up with worry and excitement about what's going on.
> 
> So, we stayed up for a bit and watched The Simpsons, until she fell asleep.


... as an awesome Dad would.


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## Chopsy

you're a great dad- lucky your kids have one stable parent they can rely on at 1am. so chuffed about your new home!! I'm sure everyone will feel more settled when you're in your new home.


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## Northern Monkey

Congratulations on freedom and great news on the living arrangements.

Onwards and upwards!


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## Pam

You don't have to continue paying toward her mortgage, do you?

I know this is tough on your kids, but you are such a great dad.


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## Pbartender

Pam said:


> You don't have to continue paying toward her mortgage, do you?


I've already paid my half of the mortgage for the month I'll be staying here. Then I'm moving out, and I won't have to.


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## Holland

Don't know your story but going by the posts here you well and truly deserve for things to be going your way.

All the best to you and your kids in this new phase of life.


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## Northern Monkey

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



Holland said:


> Don't know your story but going by the posts here you well and truly deserve for things to be going your way.
> 
> All the best to you and your kids in this new phase of life.


Well and truly earnt for sure.


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## Freak On a Leash

Welcome to the Gold Seal club! :smthumbup: Sounds like you are getting off to a great start, both physically and emotionally. I'm sure your kids really appreciate it. 

Enjoy the rest of your life! You deserve to live a good one.


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## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> That's awesome!
> 
> Of course anything you can get without rooms full of trash bags and having to worry about your food disappearing will be nice.


He's not moving in with you, is he?


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## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> He's not moving in with you, is he?


I'd steal his food too.


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## Holland

Hello Freak, where have you been?


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## Freak On a Leash

Still here. Just busy. I've been in "chill mode". I've had a great social life this summer, hanging with Meetup groups, making friends and spending a lot of time with the kids this summer. Spent a lot of time just relaxing at the beach and enjoying the single life. Fall is coming and I plan to start camping and hiking again once the kids are back in school and the weather cools down. 

My ex and I haven't spoken or seen each other since May 15. He stuck me with the last payment of the health insurance and refused to help with that or offer up any child support so I basically told him to stay away from me. When my son wants to see him, he call and has his father pick him up. There's no reason to have anything to do with him who why do so? He is forbidden to enter the apartment under any circumstances and waits outside in his car for my son and drops him off in the same manner. 

I don't miss him at all. Life is much better now that the ex is completely gone. I'm making long range plans to pack up and head west once my kids are graduated. My son plans to go into the military after high school the same time my daughter graduates from college so it'll be my time to pursue a truly new life. :smthumbup:


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## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> I'd steal his food too.


Speaking of which... After four days she showed up, ate the leftover braised beef tips, gravy and whipped potatoes I made (but none of the green beans ), showered, changed clothes and then left.

September 14th can't come soon enough.

In the meantime, Friday evenings, the kids I went out for gyros and then met up with FYG and the Fyglings for a free folk-blues concert in the park. We all got ice cream cones. After that, FYG and I hung out and chatted while the kids all chased each other around the play ground until way, way too late after dark. Good times.

:smthumbup:

Saturday, the kids I went out and ran errands, stopped by the farmer's market, and did a little window shopping to plan for a few things for the new apartment. Spent the rest of the day playing video games, watching movies and eating a huge pile of hot wings. Good times.

:smthumbup:

Sunday, we went on a nice 10-mile hike on the trails down by the river, with a mid-hike pit stop for a picnic lunch. Talked about a lot of good stuff with the kids along the way. When we got home, D13 had been asking for whipped potatoes lately, so I made a big pot, with those braised beef tips and brown gravy to with it. D13 told me that if we can't afford to go to a restaurant for her special birthday dinner next month, she wants me to make her whipped potatoes. Good times.

:smthumbup:


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## angelpixie

Great post, Pbar!!


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## Pam

Basement Dweller gives me the screaming heebie jeebies. I would love to be a fly on the wall when she has to provide food for herself after you move out. How dare she!!!!???!! That food was meant for her children!


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## Ceegee

Pam said:


> Basement Dweller gives me the screaming heebie jeebies. I would love to be a fly on the wall when she has to provide food for herself after you move out. How dare she!!!!???!! That food was meant for her children!


I'm sure you wouldn't alone as a fly on that wall. Lol.


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## Pbartender

Pbartender said:


> Talked about a lot of good stuff with the kids along the way.


So, one thing that still tough is D13, and how X's attitude has been affecting her. I know there are things that bother her... I know she's reticent to talk about it... But every now and again, she lets something slip about her frustrations.

While we were walking, we talked about all sorts things, among them plans for the new apartment. D13 was excited about the pool and the playground there. In particular, the possibilities they had for entertaining kids when she babysits.

Now, the Toxic Avenger and her two young daughters will be moving in with X after I moved out. D13 often babysits for her two girls. D13 asked me if it would be okay if she could bring them over when she babysits them, so she could take them to the pool.

I told her that I didn't think it was a good idea. Aside from the fact that there's no life guard, I don't really know TA and she doesn't know me. Plus, one of the girls has leukemia and is going through chemo at intervals... she needs to be very careful about infections and such, and I'm not comfortable with that sort of responsibility.

The conversation evolved toward D13 asking leading (and not-quite-subtle-enough) questions about how I felt about certain things... I could see what she was trying to do, so I decided to stop beating around the bush, and be open and honest with her.

I told her that I didn't mind her babysitting at all... She's good at it, she enjoys it, it's teaching her responsibility, it builds her confidence, it gets her extra spending cash for fun stuff, and (jokingly) it's a deterrent against teenage pregnancy. But...

I also told her that it sometimes bothers me the way X and Toxic Avenger treat her and the way they use her for babysitting... I don't think paid her enough ($20, no matter how long she babysits), I don't like how long they make her babysit (often 10-12+ hours and sometimes overnight), I don't like how often they make her babysit (sometimes 2-3 days in a row), and I don't always like the reasons why they ask her to babysit (she's often used in place of daycare, and they often ask her to babysit, just so X and TA can go out and party with friends).

I explained to her that those things bother me, but... That it's also not my place to make the decision. That no matter what what I think, it's X and TA's choice to ask her to babysit, and it's D13's choice, not mine, to accept the job or not.

D13 assured me that knows she can say no to the babysitting jobs if she wants to... and that she has a couple of times. 

Then, to my surprise, she also let slip just a little bit of grumbling about X... "Yeah, I know," she complained, "Sometimes I think... HEY! X! You already hung out with Lucky and Toxic Avenger three times this week! Why can't you hang out with me?!"

Anyway... This is a tough line to walk for me... D13 is starting to talk with me about stuff with me and starting to ask questions. It's really hard to be honest about what I think and feel with her, without feeling like I'm intentionally influencing her opinion of X and Company.

On the other hand, I sometimes get the feeling that D13's harboring more than a little frustration and resentment toward X right now... She really WANTS to express it, but isn't always sure how to, or if it's "safe" to.

*sigh*


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## angelpixie

I sympathise, Pbar. I've had similar situations with DS and his feelings towards Chinless and the Trampire. On top of that, Chinless loves to 'threaten' me by repeating the part of the parenting agreement where one parent is not supposed to say bad things about the other. When DS is upset (like the times he didn't want to go back to his dad's), all I feel I can do is listen. I ask him if he wants me to say anything to his dad, but mostly, I encourage him to talk to his dad and tell him he has a right to his feelings and a right to make them known. I tell him that I know his dad loves him and that I'd bet his dad would want to know if he's upset. 

Then I go in my room, shut the door, and pound my pillows with my fists and call Chinless every nasty name I can think of for doing this crap to DS. issed:

I think it's good for us to keep the communication open, Pb, esp when the kids don't feel like there's anyone else they trust to talk to right now.


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## Mavash.

You're a great dad Pbar.

Don't ever ever doubt yourself. 

Great job with your daughter.


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## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Then, to my surprise, she also let slip just a little bit of grumbling about X... "Yeah, I know," she complained, "Sometimes I think... HEY! X! You already hung out with Lucky and Toxic Avenger three times this week! Why can't you hang out with me?!"
> 
> Anyway... This is a tough line to walk for me... D13 is starting to talk with me about stuff with me and starting to ask questions. It's really hard to be honest about what I think and feel with her, without feeling like I'm intentionally influencing her opinion of X and Company.
> 
> On the other hand, I sometimes get the feeling that D13's harboring more than a little frustration and resentment toward X right now... She really WANTS to express it, but isn't always sure how to, or if it's "safe" to.
> 
> *sigh*


Very tough...

D13 is expressing her feelings. Encourage her to continue to do so - with you and her mom.

Mom will most likely try to invalidate these. Without counter she will learn to suppress her feelings and feel insecure about her judgement.


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## Pluto2

Your kids are so lucky to have you.
I can sympathize with the tightrope you are walking. I honestly think there is a difference between say something like "Mom is a skank" and "I want to make sure that you to know you have every right to tell Mom that you are uncomfortable with the position she is putting you in." The first is judgmental and derogatory, the second is helping your child feel empowered and being a supportive parent.
You totally have this parenting thing down.


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## Pbartender

Thanks guys, I appreciate the support.

And Mavash... I _have_ to doubt myself, just a little... but not in a bad way. It's in my nature to be skeptical about everything, until I'm certain. It's what drives me to do better. 

Now, on the other side of things...

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

First, read this:



Pbar's MSA said:


> *4.2 Shared Expenses.* During the period in which the Husband is paying child support, the Husband shall pay fifty (50%) percent and the Wife shall pay fifty (50%) percent of the following costs:
> 
> A. Any and all agreed upon extra-curricular activity costs for the children, Extra-curricular activities include, but are not limited to, after-school sports, recreational league sports, dancing/music lessons, boy/girl scouting, and other after-school activities.
> 
> B. School registration fees, book fees, field trip fees and other fees associated with the children’s schooling; and
> 
> C. School lunches.


The kids just started school this week. I sent a text asking X to deposit her half of the kids' lunch money ASAP... What I deposited wasn't going to last more than a week or two, and with the unexpected deposit I have to pay for the apartment this week, I won't have any more spare cash for school lunches until next Friday.

She replies:

_"I thought you were taking care of school expenses and lunches, because I am paying for health insurance and their cellphones."_

What. What? Not this again. I was going to have to engage at least a little bit, if I wanted her to actually chip in with the lunches, so I decided to handle this same way I handled the way she avoided the temp support payment.

I started with this:

_"That was what I was offering six months ago, before you insisted on child support. That's NOT the ruling the judge made - which we both agreed to abide by."_

I continued:

_"Have you actually read the JPA and MSA? Perhaps you should."_

Yeah, Soca, I know... Exactly what I gave you lumber for, oh so recently. Feel free to send it back my way, but I know that bear-baiting urge.

Anyway, she responds...

_"Half of the bills is a separate issue... you are responsible for in addition to child support."_

_"Perhaps YOU should read the agreement."_

_"If this continues to be an issue I will refile and request the full amount of child support that I am entitled to (instead of letting you pay the greatly reduced rate that we agreed on)"_

Seriously?

We're already divorced. She can't file. And if she's talking about modifying child support... We only got divorced a week ago. I had to get a court order to get her to help pay bills. The *JUDGE* is the one who made the final ruling on child support and expenses.

She can "file" all she wants. I won't agree to it, and if it goes to court, no judge is going to take her seriously.

And now that she's dug herself into that hole, I simply replied with the cut and paste of Section 4.2 of the MSA, which I quoted above.

Nothing back from her yet, and that was an hour ago. Let's see what happens.

The ridiculous thing is that I know what's in there. I'm following it to the letter. She's trying to change it to what she wants it to be. *SHE* would be the one violating it. According to the MSA, I could take her back to court to enforce it, and she would have to foot the bill for ALL the court fees and lawyer expenses... both hers and mine.

Un. ****ing. Believable.


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## Nucking Futs

Pbartender said:


> _Edited for brevity._
> 
> The ridiculous thing is that I know what's in there. I'm following it to the letter. She's trying to change it to what she wants it to be. *SHE* would be the one violating it. According to the MSA, I could take her back to court to enforce it, and she would have to foot the bill for ALL the court fees and lawyer expenses... both hers and mine.
> 
> Un. ****ing. Believable.


I'll bet you only have to do it once.


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## Mavash.

If she keeps on with this...

Do the same thing you did before when she handed you that bs that she didn't have money for the support payment the judge ordered her to pay.

Go back and send the exact same text just change the subject. 

She's scared of the words 'contempt of court'.


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## BWBill

Instead of:

_"Have you actually read the JPA and MSA? Perhaps you should."_,

Try: "I suggest you speak to your attorney. I will take you to court over this." And then end it.


She has not read anything and never will. You simply end up arguing with her fantasies.


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## Pbartender

Mavash. said:


> If she keeps on with this...
> 
> Do the same thing you did before when she handed you that bs that she didn't have money for the support payment the judge ordered her to pay.
> 
> Go back and send the exact same text just change the subject.
> 
> She's scared of the words 'contempt of court'.


That's the plan, Mavash. :smthumbup:


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## Mavash.

You know what PB after I posted that I realized it was a waste of my typing.

You've SO got this.

Whatever will I do with my time now that you're doing so awesome? 

Oh right....I need to get a life.


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## Pbartender

BWBill said:


> Instead of:
> 
> _"Have you actually read the JPA and MSA? Perhaps you should."_,
> 
> Try: "I suggest you speak to your attorney. I will take you to court over this." And then end it.
> 
> 
> She has not read anything and never will. You simply end up arguing with her fantasies.


Oh, I fully understand that... Just realize that I'm _not_ arguing with her. I'm coaxing her into putting an admission on record.

It's just like the temporary support money, you see... once I get to "Have you actually read the JPA and MSA? Perhaps you should." then she's really only got two choices:


Admit that she hasn't read it.
Admit that she has read it.

If she hasn't read it, then she committed perjury at the prove-up date when she claimed, under oath, that she read and understood the MSA and JPA.

If she has read it, then she's again willfully trying to violate a court order, and she can be held in contempt of court.

In addition, it's recorded proof that she's not willing to cooperatively co-parent. I mean, really... I simply asked her to uphold her half of the agreement to the tune of about $40, and she ended up (futilely) threatening to take me back to court.

:crazy:

*Addendum:* Speaking of perjury, during the hearing she also lied to the judge about fully disclosing her financial records. She's got at least three charge-off credit cards that she never told anyone about. And if you guys think she's scared of contempt of court, just wait until she hears about perjury... It's a Class 3 felony in Illinois. That's 2-5 years in prison as well as possible fines up to $25,000.


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## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Oh, I fully understand that... Just realize that I'm _not_ arguing with her. I'm coaxing her into putting an admission on record.
> 
> It's just like the temporary support money, you see... once I get to "Have you actually read the JPA and MSA? Perhaps you should." then she's really only got two choices:
> 
> 
> Admit that she hasn't read it.
> Admit that she has read it.
> 
> If she hasn't read it, then she committed perjury at the prove-up date when she claimed, under oath, that she read and understood the MSA and JPA.
> 
> If she has read it, then she's again willfully trying to violate a court order, and she can be held in contempt of court.
> 
> In addition, it's recorded proof that she's not willing to cooperatively co-parent. I mean, really... I simply asked her to uphold her half of the agreement to the tune of about $40, and she ended up (futilely) threatening to take me back to court.
> 
> :crazy:
> 
> *Addendum:* Speaking of perjury, during the hearing she also lied to the judge about fully disclosing her financial records. She's got at least three charge-off credit cards that she never told anyone about. And if you guys think she's scared of contempt of court, just wait until she hears about perjury... It's a Class 3 felony in Illinois. That's 2-5 years in prison as well as possible fines up to $25,000.


She's not scared. She doesn't understand. Only concentrated on what's due her, no?


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## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> She's not scared. She doesn't understand. Only concentrated on what's due her, no?


Not exactly... She's scared, because she doesn't understand. And she doesn't understand, because she's only concentrated on what's due her. 

Look at the way she keeps flipping between fight and flight. And either way, her reactions are always taken with a panicked lack of forethought.

She's like a stray cat that's gotten itself stuck underneath the front porch.


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## Pluto2

Can we douse her with a hose?


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## Pluto2

Sorry, that was way more snarky than I intended


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## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> Sorry, that was way more snarky than I intended


Was it? Really? I've been thinking of dropping a house on her.


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## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Was it? Really? I've been thinking of dropping a house on her.


You did, didn't you?


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## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> You did, didn't you?


:lol: :rofl:

Don't let me forget to grab the ruby slippers before I go.


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## Pbartender

The Wicked Witch of the Midwest?

After all, I can't call her Almost Ex-Wife anymore.


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## Pbartender

Oh boy.

I don't know how or why it happened, but... I just found out that way back at the beginning of July, the WWotMW took a demotion at work from cashier supervisor back to her previous job of early morning stocker.

A demotion that included a roughly 30% cut in pay.

And yet... She didn't think this was important enough to tell me, or either of our lawyers.

:slap:


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## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> I don't know how or why it happened, but... I just found out that way back at the beginning of July, the WWotMW took a demotion at work from cashier supervisor back to her previous job of early morning stocker.
> 
> A demotion that included a roughly 30% cut in pay.
> 
> And yet... She didn't think this was important enough to tell me, or either of our lawyers.
> 
> :slap:


And the hits keep on coming.


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## BWBill

Pride.


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## tom67

Pbartender said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> I don't know how or why it happened, but... I just found out that way back at the beginning of July, the WWotMW took a demotion at work from cashier supervisor back to her previous job of early morning stocker.
> 
> A demotion that included a roughly 30% cut in pay.
> 
> And yet... She didn't think this was important enough to tell me, or either of our lawyers.
> 
> :slap:


:redcard::wtf::banghead::banghead: And you were talking about perjury earlier


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## Pbartender

*A)* Deposit's in for the apartment. All set to move in three weeks from now. :smthumbup:

*B)* Today, the WWotMW mentioned in passing, "I was going to put some money in the kids' lunch accounts this weekend." As if it had been her idea all along. 

*C)* Tonight, I'm going camping with FYG. :toast:


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## tom67

Pbartender said:


> *A)* Deposit's in for the apartment. All set to move in three weeks from now. :smthumbup:
> 
> *B)* Today, the WWotMW mentioned in passing, "I was going to put some money in the kids' lunch accounts this weekend." As if it had been her idea all along.
> 
> *C)* Tonight, I'm going camping with FYG. :toast:


cool
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pbartender

Muah! Hah!

The check from my retirement fund just arrived. I could move out... NOW.

I'll have to call the land lady tomorrow and see if I can sidle up the move in date to this week.


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## Pbartender

Move in next weekend. :smthumbup:


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## Mavash.

Yay!!!!


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## catcalls

Pbartender said:


> *A)* Deposit's in for the apartment. All set to move in three weeks from now. :smthumbup:
> 
> *B)* Today, the WWotMW mentioned in passing, "I was going to put some money in the kids' lunch accounts this weekend." As if it had been her idea all along.
> 
> *C)* Tonight, I'm going camping with FYG. :toast:


what does WWotMW mean, wayward wife ...

anyway, congratulations as you have got this albatross of your neck and she is soon going to be in for a rude awakening.

enjoy decorating your new bachelor pad.


----------



## Ceegee

catcalls said:


> what does WWotMW mean, wayward wife ...
> 
> anyway, congratulations as you have got this albatross of your neck and she is soon going to be in for a rude awakening.
> 
> enjoy decorating your new bachelor pad.


Wicked witch of the Midwest.


----------



## Pbartender

catcalls said:


> what does WWotMW mean, wayward wife ...





Ceegee said:


> Wicked witch of the Midwest.


:iagree:

Beginning here will explain it.


----------



## Pbartender

So, I let Team Pbar know what was going on, just to keep him informed. He replied...

_If she wants to “vacate” the judgment, she can attempt to but I doubt she will be successful._

_As for her demotion, was it voluntary? Even so, the change in circumstances that would justify a change in support would need to have occurred after the entry of the support order, so when the divorce judgment was entered. She cannot now claim there has been a change in circumstances when at the time the order was entered, she already had her demotion. It also would hurt her case if she voluntarily took the demotion as opposed to the company’s decision. The same goes to the change in her work schedule. Your JPA is what it is and unless either one of you want to change it, I see no reason to, even if she has a different work schedule._

In other words... She needs a "change in circumstances" to justify changing child support. The change in her employment status could normally qualify, except that a) it happened before the divorce was finalized and b) it's almost certainly a voluntary change.

In other-other words, she's already agreed under oath to the current terms of support and expenses knowing full well (and concealing the fact) that she was making less money than what everyone thought she was. That, and volunteering to take an unnecessary pay cut just to get more money out of ex-hubby makes the judge grumpy.

In other-other-other words, she's **** out of luck.


----------



## angelpixie

Not the brightest bulb on the tree, is she?


----------



## vi_bride04

angelpixie said:


> Not the brightest bulb on the tree, is she?


Are any of them??!!!! :scratchhead:


----------



## angelpixie

vi_bride04 said:


> Are any of them??!!!! :scratchhead:


 Touché


----------



## Mavash.

angelpixie said:


> Not the brightest bulb on the tree, is she?


This made me giggle. LOL

I do love karma stories.


----------



## Pbartender

A thought exercise.

This is conjecture, mind you, but here's what I think might have been going through her mind...

She had always liked her original stocking job. She liked the work, and she liked the hours. Only, she didn't like the pay. A year ago, shortly after we separated, she got herself promoted to supervisor over the cashiers. She didn't like the job or the hours, but it was a LOT more money, and she hoped to get transferred to a more preferable supervisor position soon.

Almost a year later, it hadn't happened. She was still mucking around with the cashiers.

So, she wants to go back to the job she enjoys, with the hours she prefers. (There also may have been pressure over her, a supervisor, dating an employee from a different department.) But, she can't afford to take the pay cut. Likely at the suggestion of her Toxic Avengers, she pushes for full child support from me... A monthly amount which coincidentally just about equals the amount of pay she would lose. She would get to go back to the job she likes, but I would effectively get stuck with the pay cut instead of her.

However, I think she committed to the demotion before the child support was locked down, and she didn't consider that I would fight back... or that she wouldn't get the full amount of support when it went before the judge.

When things didn't go exactly as planned, she didn't have any contingency plans, and she didn't have any resources to fall back on. She panicked.

She has no savings. She's lost almost a third of her income. She didn't get the child support she was relying on. She didn't get the retirement payout she was relying on. She didn't get custody of the kids the way she expected to. She has debt collectors calling her daily. She's now responsible for a house that's effectively an equity pit.

And she no longer has me to cover for her.

I hope that those 14 months of partying were worth it to her. I don't see this getting any better for her any time soon.


----------



## tom67

Pbartender said:


> A thought exercise.
> 
> This is conjecture, mind you, but here's what I think might have been going through her mind...
> 
> She had always liked her original stocking job. She liked the work, and she liked the hours. Only, she didn't like the pay. A year ago, shortly after we separated, she got herself promoted to supervisor over the cashiers. She didn't like the job or the hours, but it was a LOT more money, and she hoped to get transferred to a more preferable supervisor position soon.
> 
> Almost a year later, it hadn't happened. She was still mucking around with the cashiers.
> 
> So, she wants to go back to the job she enjoys, with the hours she prefers. (There also may have been pressure over her, a supervisor, dating an employee from a different department.) But, she can't afford to take the pay cut. Likely at the suggestion of her Toxic Avengers, she pushes for full child support from me... A monthly amount which coincidentally just about equals the amount of pay she would lose. She would get to go back to the job she likes, but I would effectively get stuck with the pay cut instead of her.
> 
> However, I think she committed to the demotion before the child support was locked down, and she didn't consider that I would fight back... or that she wouldn't get the full amount of support when it went before the judge.
> 
> When things didn't go exactly as planned, she didn't have any contingency plans, and she didn't have any resources to fall back on. She panicked.
> 
> She has no savings. She's lost almost a third of her income. She didn't get the child support she was relying on. She didn't get the retirement payout she was relying on. She didn't get custody of the kids the way she expected to. She has debt collectors calling her daily. She's now responsible for a house that's effectively an equity pit.
> 
> And she no longer has me to cover for her.
> 
> I hope that those 14 months of partying were worth it to her. I don't see this getting any better for her any time soon.


Too bad so sad, she fired you and if she wants to keep the house forget bankruptcy ugh you know what that means whenever the kids are with her-happymeal time everyday. Ick!


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> A thought exercise.
> 
> This is conjecture, mind you, but here's what I think might have been going through her mind...
> 
> She had always liked her original stocking job. She liked the work, and she liked the hours. Only, she didn't like the pay. A year ago, shortly after we separated, she got herself promoted to supervisor over the cashiers. She didn't like the job or the hours, but it was a LOT more money, and she hoped to get transferred to a more preferable supervisor position soon.
> 
> Almost a year later, it hadn't happened. She was still mucking around with the cashiers.
> 
> So, she wants to go back to the job she enjoys, with the hours she prefers. (There also may have been pressure over her, a supervisor, dating an employee from a different department.) But, she can't afford to take the pay cut. Likely at the suggestion of her Toxic Avengers, she pushes for full child support from me... A monthly amount which coincidentally just about equals the amount of pay she would lose. She would get to go back to the job she likes, but I would effectively get stuck with the pay cut instead of her.
> 
> However, I think she committed to the demotion before the child support was locked down, and she didn't consider that I would fight back... or that she wouldn't get the full amount of support when it went before the judge.
> 
> When things didn't go exactly as planned, she didn't have any contingency plans, and she didn't have any resources to fall back on. She panicked.
> 
> She has no savings. She's lost almost a third of her income. She didn't get the child support she was relying on. She didn't get the retirement payout she was relying on. She didn't get custody of the kids the way she expected to. She has debt collectors calling her daily. She's now responsible for a house that's effectively an equity pit.
> 
> And she no longer has me to cover for her.
> 
> I hope that those 14 months of partying were worth it to her. I don't see this getting any better for her any time soon.


Karma bus making frequent stops at WWotMW's house?


----------



## angelpixie

Your plan sounds entirely plausible, Pbar. I think Toxic Advisers might also be a suitable name for them.


----------



## BK23

Are you off the mortgage? That's the only thing about this nonsense that would concern me. otherwise, it should be fun to watch her crash and burn


----------



## Pbartender

BK23 said:


> Are you off the mortgage?


Of course I'm not.

She either has to refinance... With only two-thirds of the income that I'd had to pay the mortgage with, and a terrible credit rating. She almost certainly won't be approved.

Or, she has to assume the mortgage... And because it's an FHA loan originated after December 1, 1986, she'll have to go through a creditworthiness check. Again, she will almost fail that check.

It's her responsibility now, and there's nothing I can do get my name off the mortgage. She has to do it.

However, she can't pay the mortgage on her own after taking the demotion (it's accounts for about 90% of her take home pay), and she can't refinance it in her own name. Both of those are violations of the MSA.

If she starts missing payments, as I'm fully expecting, I'll take her back to court and talk to the judge about it... And probably end up selling the house.


----------



## Pluto2

I think your plan is spot on.
It bites that she continues to be irresponsible and you have to take the time, money and effort to drag her sorriness to court. It seems like there's always one more thing to clean up. I imagine after you take her to court to sell the house, then you and the kids will be left cleaning the basement. yuck


----------



## Mavash.

Poor baby I feel so sorry for her.



NOT!!! 

I've despised your ex more than most on this board and I'm grateful the karma bus has showed up.


----------



## BK23

Was she always this delusional?


----------



## vi_bride04

Pluto2 said:


> I think your plan is spot on.
> It bites that she continues to be irresponsible and you have to take the time, money and effort to drag her sorriness to court. It seems like there's always one more thing to clean up. *I imagine after you take her to court to sell the house, then you and the kids will be left cleaning the basement. yuck*


Hopefully there isn't close to 30yrds worth of sh!t left over like my ex did to me when he abandoned the house!!! 

ewwww it was so gross...

Why are these idiots so fricken irresponsible? How do they get through life...really??? 

Oh wait....they had people like us to always take care of things and clean up their messes...


----------



## tom67

I knew it was a bad week to give up sniffing glue.


----------



## Chopsy

Pbar, just catching up. Congrats on your new home, so chuffed for you and the kids, new start, no one nicking your food any more! :smthumbup:

As for the WWOTMW, :crazy: takes a special kind of crazy to demote yourself, in anticipation of a big payoff from presumed idiot husband. Oops, didn't quite work out did it! I just LOVE when the karma bus comes to town! 

You have had such a sh1t time with your WWOTMW, you deserve your well earned freedom!


----------



## Pbartender

Got my keys. :smthumbup:

I. Hate. Packing.


----------



## zillard

Pbartender said:


> I. Hate. Packing.


Congrats pb! I'm right there with ya. 

Packing today. Might close on the house today. Or tomorrow. Or tuesday. Lol. 

But have to be out of the apartment saturday. So I might end up moving all my stuff into storage just to move it out in a few days. 

Compared to the situations our x's created... Piece of cake! 

At least I'm packing my stuff this time, and not hers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angelpixie

Congrats, Pb and Zil! :smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> Got my keys. :smthumbup:
> 
> I. Hate. Packing.


Yeah but just think of all the unnecessary stuff you will throw away as you begin your new life in your new place building new chapters/memories!

And it feels so good to unpack and re-arrange/re-organize things. Yee haw!

Housewarming party at Pbars!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## philglossop

I hated packing as well. Until I decided to be totally brutal and throw give away anything I didn't want in my new life.

15 wheelie bins later and numerous trips to the council dump, I was done.

But it felt soooo good at the end!


----------



## Nucking Futs

Jellybeans said:


> Yeah but jus tthink of all the *unnecessary stuff you will throw away* as you begin your new life in your new place building new chapters/memories!
> 
> And it feels so good to unpack and re-arrange/re-organize things. Yee haw!
> 
> Housewarming party at Pbars!!! :smthumbup:


Hey! She's still a human being!


----------



## vi_bride04

Nucking Futs said:


> Hey! She's still a human being!


I think there are special rules for getting rid of toxic/hazardous material anyways


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> Yeah but just think of all the unnecessary stuff you will throw away as you begin your new life in your new place building new chapters/memories!


WWotMW is keeping the house, remember? I don't need to throw anything away... I only need to take with me what I want to keep.


----------



## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> WWotMW is keeping the house, remember? I don't need to throw anything away... I only need to take with me what I want to keep.


Even better!!


----------



## vi_bride04

Hey, you can be the one to leave 30yrds worth of crap behind! 

Now thats justice


----------



## angelpixie

Yeah, 'leftovers' of a different kind. :rofl:


----------



## Pbartender

She did it again...

I texted her, again, that she needs to send me her work schedule. She texted back:

_"I am off Wednesday and Saturday."_

_"Also, need you to pay your half of the cell phone and health insurance for August ($70 + $37 = $100)"_

_"if you want to subtract the 13 for my half of D13's violin and half of D15's school lunches, that's fine, but I will need the money by Friday"_

_"like I said before, on or before the 15th of the month would be best for me"_

_"I was assuming that the kids would be with you Thurs & Fri next week..."_

_"if it is okay, I would like them that weekend (making sept 14-15) your weekend with them..."_


Based on the irregularity of her previous job, she is supposed to send me her work schedule in detail... Not just days off, but the hours she's working as well.
She's still asking for money that she's not entitled to.
Labor Day is "her" holiday every year. She specifically asked for it. Since it's on a Monday, she gets the weekend before along with it. The weekend after then automatically goes to me. She's already got the schedule (that _she_ insisted on) all mixed up.



:banghead:


----------



## angelpixie

angelpixie said:


> Not the brightest bulb on the tree, is she?


----------



## Pbartender

All right.

Electric, gas and water are all set for the new digs. Phone and internet on order. I'm almost done packing what I'm taking with me. And I've got enough saved to start over and buy new a few of the basic things I'm leaving behind...

My life had become too cluttered, both literally and figuratively. I'm seeing this move as a big opportunity to simplify things in every way.

Last night, I did take the time to respond to WWotMW:

_"In accordance with the parenting agreement and because you often work weekends and evenings, you are required to send me your complete work schedule."_

_"Monday is Labor Day, which is your holiday with the kids. You also get the preceding weekend (this Sun and Sat). And so the following weekend (the 7th and 8th) is mine."_

_"Medical insurance is your responsibility and I am under no obligation to pay for cell phones. Please stop asking for money you are not entitled to."_

_"Automatic withdrawals for child support should start in Oct. I will send you a $200 support check for Sep within the next week."_

I know that's all a little more verbose than we normally like around here, but... If it comes to the point of actually having to take her back to court, this will be a record showing that I understand the terms of the MSA and JPA, and am willingly and actively abiding by those terms.


----------



## BURNT KEP

Pbartender said:


> All right.
> 
> Electric, gas and water are all set for the new digs. Phone and internet on order. I'm almost done packing what I'm taking with me. And I've got enough saved to start over and buy new a few of the basic things I'm leaving behind...
> 
> My life had become too cluttered, both literally and figuratively. I'm seeing this move as a big opportunity to simplify things in every way.
> 
> Last night, I did take the time to respond to WWotMW:
> 
> _"In accordance with the parenting agreement and because you often work weekends and evenings, you are required to send me your complete work schedule."_
> 
> _"Monday is Labor Day, which is your holiday with the kids. You also get the preceding weekend (this Sun and Sat). And so the following weekend (the 14th and 15th) is mine."_
> 
> _"Medical insurance is your responsibility and I am under no obligation to pay for cell phones. Please stop asking for money you are not entitled to."_
> 
> _"Automatic withdrawals for child support should start in Oct. I will send you a $200 support check for Sep within the next week."_
> 
> I know that's all a little more verbose than we normally like around here, but... If it comes to the point of actually having to take her back to court, this will be a record showing that I understand the terms of the MSA and JPA, and am willingly and actively abiding by those terms.


Does she pay for your cell phone or is it the kids?


----------



## Pbartender

BURNT KEP said:


> Does she pay for your cell phone or is it the kids?


It's the kids' cell phones. I pay for my own.

Last year, she ordered phones and plans for the kids without consulting with me first, and picked a service provider and plans that are rather expensive for what the kids actually use their phones for.

But I am not going to pay her for something I never agreed to. Months ago, I offered to pay for all of their school expenses and also their cell phones in lieu of child support. She refused that offer then. She doesn't get to accept it now.

Her financial irresponsibility is no longer my responsibility.


----------



## Pam

Are you leaving out a weekend? Monday is Labor Day, that's the 2nd. Then you are skipping to the 14-15th. What about the 7-8th?

Or am I completely confused?


----------



## Pbartender

Pam said:


> Are you leaving out a weekend? Monday is Labor Day, that's the 2nd. Then you are skipping to the 14-15th. What about the 7-8th?
> 
> Or am I completely confused?


Typo. Should be 7-8th.

Consider it edited.


----------



## Pbartender

So, I get home... WWotMW is home...

She tries to clarify the weekend schedule thing...

"I thought the kids would want to help you move this weekend."

"I didn't think it was fair that you are counting this weekend even though you are still living here for part of it."

"I didn't think it was fair that you get D13 on her birthday and that whole weekend after."

"I wanted to take the kids to a birthday party on the 14th..."

So on and so on...

I simply told her that she needs to read the agreements. It's all in there. For example, D13's birthday is her "holiday" this year and it's on a Friday, so she would get the whole weekend afterward with them, as well.

Then, I reminded her that she still needs to send me her work hours... And that's when she slowly and steadily began to lose it.

She already sent me her days off, what more do I need? She doesn't work evenings any more. She hasn't for almost two months. She told me about it six weeks ago, and I said "Yeah, whatever." I wasn't listening. I wasn't paying attention. I don't remember. She discussed it with me before she actually changed jobs. She told her lawyer about it. She changed jobs because I was complaining about the custody schedule. She changed jobs because it lets her spend more time with the kids. Why do I think she kept complaining about her income being listed wrong in the MSA? I was just trying to get out of paying child support (not that I'm paying much as it is). On and on and on...

I told her again, that she needs to read the agreements. Our incomes aren't even in there. We took them out, after she wouldn't stop complaining. I offered to show her a copy of the papers that she signed.

To which she replied, "I think you need to walk away." 

Whatever.

More blame-shifting and rewriting history... She can shout "I _*DID*_ TELL YOU!" all she wants, I've got written records and at least one lawyer as a witness to back me up.

I can't wait until I have my own space.


----------



## Pluto2

It won't be long. I don't see how you've remained sane this long.
I've noticed with my own really-almost-so-to-be-X that the more desperate they become the more history gets changed in their narrative. Any day now I expect him to deny we were never married.


----------



## catcalls

i think reality is hitting her fast. you have done well in communications so far by keeping it to the point. now that you are moving away, i imagine you will do it all by text. everytime she says something stupid or irrelevant or not according to the agreement, you should have a standard answer, Read the agreement (RTA). so text her back RTA RAT


----------



## Pbartender

catcalls said:


> i think reality is hitting her fast. you have done well in communications so far by keeping it to the point. now that you are moving away, i imagine you will do it all by text. everytime she says something stupid or irrelevant or not according to the agreement, you should have a standard answer, Read the agreement (RTA). so text her back RTA RAT


The divorced equivalent of, RTFM... "Read the ****ing manual."


----------



## angelpixie

"And then STFU"


----------



## Pbartender

Loooong weekend.

Spent Friday evening and all day Saturday moving, unpacking, and getting the new place set up. We met several of our new neighbors, and they're all nice and friendly, so far. D13 even ran across several of her friends from school who live in the neighborhood.

I wasn't supposed to move in until Sunday, but Friday evening was the only day I could get a truck to move the furniture. One of the maintenance guys noticed us moving in early, and complained that I'd have go in and pay for an extra two days' rent... apparently the owners are sticklers for such things. Oh well, it's still cheaper than a hotel.

The kids wanted to and help out and stay in the new place Saturday night. I let WWotMW know. She finally asked straight out if we could swap weekends. I made sure she understood that this is a deviation from SOP, and let her know that for _this month_ that would be okay with me.

Had set to set a couple of boundaries for the kids...

I bought new mattresses, blankets and pillows for the kids to have in the new place. D13 wanted to drag her new blankets and pillows back and forth. I had to remind her that the whole point of getting them new bedding, etc, was so that they didn't have to drag stuff back and forth.

Despite swapping weekends, WWotMW still had plans to take the kids to the Renaissance Faire yesterday. D15 said he didn't want to go. I had to remind him that Labor Day was WW's holiday with him, that she wanted to spend the day with him, that he had already agreed to go, that she had already bought a ticket for him, and that what with all the swords and armor type of stuff there that he'd probably have a lot of fun.

D13 subtly and surreptitiously continued to make her dissatisfaction over the schedule known... She talked about walking "my" dog over to the park near the apartments, so I can meet with them and visit the dog, because she'll miss me. She's mentioned looking forward to have a place to retreat to, if things get too hectic at the other place. She even came right out and even talked a little about how she thinks the schedule is unfair. And I know neither of them are keen on shuffling back and forth so often and so irregularly. We'll see what happens. Until then, I can only just encourage them to make the best of it.

Anyway, Sunday we sort of took a day off... First, all you can eat pancakes at the local diner for breakfast. Then, grocery shopping to fill up the fridge and the cabinets. Later, FYG and her girls showed up... we had a little cookout and then all took a dip in the pool and splashed around a bit.

Monday, I was on my own for the first time, really. My niece flew in from Texas last week, and just started her freshman year in college in Chicago. I drove in for a visit, and we took the train downtown... Ate some deep dish pizza, took her around to see a few sights, and then walked through the Art Institute.

Over all, it seemed like a pretty good beginning to my fresh start, I should think.


----------



## Pluto2

I'm sure the kids will settle down once they've gotten used to the new schedule. Things seem so hard when you're that age and totally out of control of the world around you.
And you...the Art Institute .... good for you!


----------



## angelpixie

I know -- Chicago deep dish pizza (*sigh*), the Art Institute and walking around Chicago to look at the sights. Sounds like an awesome day!

Pluto is right, Pbar. The kids are trying to find a little sense of control in their lives. Hopefully things will settle down into a calm, happy routine. Well, for the 3 of you, at least.


----------



## Mavash.

Dang I just caught that you are in the windy city.

My husband is from there so I've visited often.

Chicago pizza is the BEST.


----------



## Pbartender

Ah... First three nights without the kids... I miss them... They miss me... But I've chatted and texted with them a bit, and I'm doing fine on my own. In some ways, it's kind of nice to have the time to myself to get stuff done that I want to get done.

Things are getting settled in and settled down... I'm mostly unpacked, except for my books, movies and my National Geographic Collection. I need more shelves.

I met some of my neighbors. The guy in the town home next door is another divorced single dad. Nice guy. He got raked over the coals by his ex-wife and now he's the primary parent. Tough situation. His kids are younger and get along well with D13 and S15... D13 mentioned babysitting to him, and he expressed interest back. :smthumbup:

It's nice to be able to keep the place clean, and not having to worry about it getting trashed while I'm gone.

It's nice to be able to fill the fridge up with groceries, and not have to worry about it being eaten empty while I'm gone.

It's nice to be able to plan a budget and a financial plan, and not have to worry about unexpected bills and debts.

It's nice to be able to go out and socialize with people, and not have to worry about doing or saying the wrong thing.

There's just one small thing that concerns me a bit... Since the divorce, since I moved into the new apartment, whenever it's time for the kids to move between us, the WWotMW has been offering to pick up or drop off the kids at my place.

I couldn't reasonably put it off any longer -- she needs to know my address and phone number in accordance with the MSA, anyway -- and agreed to let her pick them up Saturday morning.

There's nothing overtly wrong with the offers, but... I'm not sure how I feel about her showing up at the apartment. Her persistence in offering, even when I've already stated that I would give the kids a ride, feels like insistence. And that feeling of insistence makes me question her motives for wanting to show up at my door. I can't shake the feeling that she just wants to peek in and spy out my new home.

I'm going to have to deal with it sooner or later, so I might as well get it over with, but I can't help but feel rather defensive about what has so very quickly become my sanctuary. It already feels like an invasion of my privacy. I don't want to let her drama intruding into a place that I need to keep safe and peaceful for both me and the kids.

And I understand that this is all probably just the same sort of residual anxiety and fear that Shooboomafoo is talking about in his recent thread, but... That doesn't make it any easier.

We'll see how it goes... I'll just be certain to have the kids ready and waiting to go, so she'll have no excuse to enter in farther than the doorway and no excuse to hang around.


----------



## 06Daddio08

You're doing great, nail down the pickup time and be waiting outside with the apartment door locked.


----------



## BWBill

_I can't shake the feeling that she just wants to peek in and spy out my new home.
_

Wants to raid your refrigerator.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

PB, that's what I do. 

My ex is not allowed in my condo. She sits in her car, and the kids leave.

When I pick my kids up from her place (my old house), I sit in my car and wait for them to come out with their bags, electronics, etc.

We have strict drop off/pick up times. 

She's like a vampire. Don't invite her in.


----------



## tom67

BWBill said:


> _I can't shake the feeling that she just wants to peek in and spy out my new home.
> _
> 
> Wants to raid your refrigerator.


She'll have to give you a quickie for an entree not sayin just sayin


----------



## vi_bride04

ThreeStrikes said:


> PB, that's what I do.
> 
> My ex is not allowed in my condo. She sits in her car, and the kids leave.
> 
> When I pick my kids up from her place (my old house), I sit in my car and wait for them to come out with their bags, electronics, etc.
> 
> We have strict drop off/pick up times.
> 
> *She's like a vampire. Don't invite her in*.


Exactly. Sure she can come to your place to pick up the kids....but she has to wait in the car for them


----------



## Mavash.

Ditto. Don't let her in.

Ever.

Set the precedence now on the very first visit.

My old apartment had a locked gate - I had to buzz in visitors via my phone.

Loved that.


----------



## Pbartender

In my part of the apartment complex, there's a large, grassy, park-like courtyard with benches and a playground. There are buildings on three sides and the parking lot on the fourth. My back patio looks directly out onto this courtyard (a rather nice view for an apartment, I might add).

I think the kids and I will simply have breakfast on the patio that morning... Where we can see her driving up and parking, and where they can meet outside and just walk directly to her car.

No fuss. No muss.


----------



## tom67

Pbartender said:


> In my part of the apartment complex, there's a large, grassy, park-like courtyard with benches and a playground. There are buildings on three sides and the parking lot on the fourth. My back patio looks directly out onto this courtyard (a rather nice view for an apartment, I might add).
> 
> I think the kids and I will simply have breakfast on the patio that morning... Where we can see her driving up and parking, and where they can meet outside and just walk directly to her car.
> 
> No fuss. No muss.


Did you meet any nice women there yet?


----------



## Pbartender

tom67 said:


> She'll have to give you a quickie for an entree not sayin just sayin


Sorry, I don't double-dip... And especially not after some other guy's already dunked his digits in the salsa.


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## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> Sorry, I don't double-dip... And especially not after some other guy's already dunked his digits in the salsa.



:slap:


----------



## Pbartender

Every day at about 4pm, after school, that playground out back fills up with kids... Running around and mostly having fun. The older kids even join in and keep an eye on the younger ones.

I love being in a neighborhood where the neighbors actually get out and be neighbors. Just sitting out on the patio with one of my Nat Geos and a beer, watching the crowd of kids chase each other around and chatting with Jack next door, is infinitely relaxing.

And it's nice to see D15 go out and get some fresh air and exercise without me having to kick him out the door.

And yes, Tom, I have met some nice women there, though by and large nothing's gone farther than "Hey, how's it going? I'm your new neighbor, Matt." And that's okay. I'm expecting anything much more than that, and FYG's still happy hanging around.

I've met quite a few of their kids, too... All of them insatiably and fearlessly curious about the new people who just moved in.

This is exactly the sort of socialization I've been needing... Far more than any partying or bar hopping or girl-hunting.

:smthumbup:


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Every day at about 4pm, after school, that playground out back fills up with kids... Running around and mostly having fun. The older kids even join in and keep an eye on the younger ones.
> 
> I love being in a neighborhood where the neighbors actually get out and be neighbors. Just sitting out on the patio with one of my Nat Geos and a beer, watching the crowd of kids chase each other around and chatting with Jack next door, is infinitely relaxing.
> 
> And it's nice to see D15 go out and get some fresh air and exercise without me having to kick him out the door.
> 
> And yes, Tom, I have met some nice women there, though by and large nothing's gone farther than "Hey, how's it going? I'm your new neighbor, Matt." And that's okay. I'm expecting anything much more than that, and FYG's still happy hanging around.
> 
> I've met quite a few of their kids, too... All of them insatiably and fearlessly curious about the new people who just moved in.
> 
> This is exactly the sort of socialization I've been needing... Far more than any partying or bar hopping or girl-hunting.
> 
> :smthumbup:


One of the things I miss most about my old life is my old neighborhood and neighbors. 

I'm still invited to all the parties and still talk with them and see them during kid exchanges. 

I envy you if this now.


----------



## Pbartender

Friday night, the kids and I walked across the street to watch the High School football game. D13 went to hang out with some of her school friends (and as we walked by a cute boy she just met at the apartments called her out and high :smthumbup. S15 and cheered our team on to an ignominious defeat.

After the third quarter, we were losing 13-31, S15 was getting tired and D13 was ready to go, so we walked over to a nearby ice cream shop. We got ice cream cones and headed home.

D13 and I talked a bit... She was a little frustrated, because a couple of her good friends started have fallen with a new crowd and have started acting like jerks. Now they're complaining at her and being a bit nasty, because she's doesn't really want to hang out with them or their new friends. It's all middle school girl drama and she knows it, but it was still getting her down. She felt better about it after talking it over with me, and gave her some advice on how to handle it.

On Saturday morning, this...



Pbartender said:


> I think the kids and I will simply have breakfast on the patio that morning... Where we can see her driving up and parking, and where they can meet outside and just walk directly to her car.
> 
> No fuss. No muss.


...worked like a charm. The WWotMW never got closer than 100 feet from my back door.

We met her outside by the parking lot, I handed her the first month's child support check (automatic withdrawals don't kick in until next month), I said goodbye to the kids, and they left.

I just relaxed in quietude for the rest of the weekend... Ran some errands, unpacked a little more, installed the new blinds and shades, and cleaned house. FYG had planned on stopping by Saturday evening to hang out, but got stuck working late. So, I instead treated myself to BBQ ribs from Portillo's and a couple of bad movies.

Sunday, I slept in, watched a bit of the Bears game, played some video games, and went for a run for the first time since the triathlon almost a year and a half ago.

Just a few co-parenting snags...

S15 is running out of lunch money. WWotMW still hasn't deposited any into his account.

The WWotMW still isn't sharing her work schedule with me. Sunday, she left the kids home while she was at work, and D13 was laid up sick for the day. Had I known, I would have picked them up for the day until she got home from work.

Finally, D13 made it into the middle school's "glee club" this year. Practices are Monday mornings before school. She asked me to pick her up and drive her to practice this morning, even though it's X's day with the kids, because X is working today.

Time to give her her second chance to play ball. I'll give her three strikes before I go back to Team Pbar and get serious.


----------



## Pluto2

So glad that breakfast on the patio worked out for the pick up. I am still amazed at how you are handling all this.
You don't honestly think she is ever going to play ball, do you.
It might be too late to try this, but it never hurts to share: Some friends of mine who have joint custody put a clause in the custody arrangement to the effect that if either of them were going to need a sitter or helper for the kids for longer that two hours on any given day of their custodial time, the other parent had the right of first refusal to just take the kids for the remainder of the day. The time together was recalculated solely for purposes of support for that month. The absent parent did not automatically get a make up day for time with the kids. They both wanted full custody and this was an incentive for each of them to actually be with the kids.


----------



## Pbartender

We already have a Right of First Refusal clause... It kicks in if either of us is going to be gone for three hours or more and we're supposed to be notifying each other of our work schedules, so we can exercise the right (like I would have last weekend).

That clause was the only reason I agreed to the schedule she insisted on, and now she's going out of her way to prevent me from using it.

Yesterday, I sent WWotMW a message letting her know that S15's lunch account was low and she needs to deposit money into it, that D13 wants to do cheerleading again and that I need her approval to register her ($140... $70 each), that I heard that the kids were home alone while she worked Sunday (with D13 sick), and that she needs to be sending me her schedule in accordance with the JPA so that I can plan to spend time with them during those times.

Her reply:

1. I am home by noon on Sunday.
2. D13 was having trouble with allergies, she was not sick
3. Cheerleading is fine.

Once again, I simply responded with a cut and paste of the Right of First Refusal from the JPA.

This morning, D13 missed the school bus. It's WWotMW's day with the kids. She was at work, as was I. D13 knew WW couldn't really answer the phone and wouldn't be able to leave to give her a ride, so she called me to take her to school. I couldn't come immediately, but I let her know I'd be there. She ended up being late to class. I didn't excuse it with the office.

WWotMW _will_ play ball. She just won't _willingly_ play ball.

I suspect that in the end, I'll have to do the same as what I did earlier with the temporary support... I'll keep following the rules. I'll keep asking her to follow the rules. I'll let her dig herself into a hole with her continual refusal to follow the rules. I'll collect a record of it all. Then, when it inevitably goes to a judge, she can try to explain why she isn't following the rules.


----------



## Ceegee

I am not surprised by this, obviously, but why is it you think she does this? To spite you? Does she feel controlled by you?

Asking because CT is doing similar. We are supposed to keep each other notified about the kids. Yesterday, D12 was sick and stayed home from school. She took him to the Dr. I learned of this from an alert from the school that he was absent and through our evening phone call. 

I sent her an email asking what the Dr said and she hasn't replied.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> I am not surprised by this, obviously, but why is it you think she does this? To spite you? Does she feel controlled by you?
> 
> Asking because CT is doing similar.


Yeah, I've noticed more than a few similarities between CT and WWotMW.

In a way, I think it's a simply a practical byproduct of the fog. It's self-delusion a grand scale.

WWotMW, and I suspect CT as well, had a vision for how things were supposed to turn out. The reality of the end result very doesn't meet those expectations. It seems to me that these sorts of actions are their way to try to force reality back in line with how they think it _should_ have turned out.

In another way, it's a sort of bully tactic. They didn't get their way, and now they're trying to use the same old tactics that always worked before to get it anyway. But it's not working.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Yeah, I've noticed more than a few similarities between CT and WWotMW.
> 
> In a way, I think it's a simply a practical byproduct of the fog. It's self-delusion a grand scale.
> 
> WWotMW, and I suspect CT as well, had a vision for how things were supposed to turn out. The reality of the end result very doesn't meet those expectations. It seems to me that these sorts of actions are their way to try to force reality back in line with how they think it _should_ have turned out.
> 
> In another way, it's a sort of bully tactic. They didn't get their way, and now they're trying to use the same old tactics that always worked before to get it anyway. But it's not working.


It's a complete lack of awareness. 

That you, or I, may have a different opinion - our own thoughts - never occurred to them.


----------



## Pbartender

Last Friday, I sent the WWotMW another reminder...

_"S15's lunch account is out of money, and D13's is running low. Please deposit your half for this month. I signed up D13 up for cheerleading and paid the $139 fee. Please reimburse for half. Also, please send me your work schedule for the upcoming weeks."_

No reply from her since then. No money deposited in the lunch accounts.

S15 said he'd was still eating school lunches, but his account history didn't show any lunches purchased all last week. Turns out he had been using his own cash to buy lunches. 

I can't let him do that, so I added more money for lunches for both of them.

issed:issed:issed:issed:issed:


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Last Friday, I sent the WWotMW another reminder...
> 
> _"S15's lunch account is out of money, and D13's is running low. Please deposit your half for this month. I signed up D13 up for cheerleading and paid the $139 fee. Please reimburse for half. Also, please send me your work schedule for the upcoming weeks."_
> 
> No reply from her since then. No money deposited in the lunch accounts.
> 
> S15 said he'd was still eating school lunches, but his account history didn't show any lunches purchased all last week. Turns out he had been using his own cash to buy lunches.
> 
> I can't let him do that, so I added more money for lunches for both of them.
> 
> issed:issed:issed:issed:issed:


Put it on her tab. 

Send her statements that coincide with payday.


----------



## angstire

Ceegee said:


> Put it on her tab.
> 
> Send her statements that coincide with payday.


Deduct from child support with a statement.

XW and I have an Excel spreadsheet that we track who spends what on approved joint expenses (sports, contact lenses, etc.) and we true up at the end of each quarter. 

Admittedly, we're ten years divorced, so things are more pleasant, but something like this could work for you. Or at least, it keeps track of what you deduct from child support and there is a record for her and for the court.


----------



## Pbartender

angstire said:


> Deduct from child support with a statement.


Child support is withheld from my paycheck and then the county sends her a check every month.

Besides, she's refusing to communicate and cooperatively co-parent. She's refusing to fulfill her half of the Parenting Agreement's obligations. If I were to reduce the amount I paid in child support, no matter what the reason, then she would have grounds to complain that I wasn't following the rules. And, it would give her justification to continue her non-compliance.

Based on past experience, to truly solve this problem, I will have to take her back to court, eventually. And if we go back to court, I'll need solid evidence against her and no major slip-ups of my own to succeed.

In the meantime, I am keeping track of my expenses, and am backing up transcripts of all text, message and email conversations.


----------



## angstire

Well, if she won't play by the rules and you do, you will get the short end of the stick. Messing around with child support is looked on unfavorably by judges, but if she's not meeting the agreement, a lever is needed to make her. Document like you're doing, that will be helpful if attorneys are back involved.

If you can, try to talk to her about it, but from personal experience with my XW the first five years, she would not listen to reason and it ended up providing winter vacations for our attorneys. Money out of kids' college accounts and into theirs, etc.

My XW insisted on getting attorneys involved because I wanted to refine our agreement on work travel in the divorce decree. We could have worked out the arrangement on our own that we did with the attorneys and spent nothing, but she refused and we spent thousands of dollars to work out an agreement that was simple and easy to agree to. She also wanted more child support, which is REALLY why the attorneys ended up being involved. Lucky for her (eh, no), she spent more on her attorney's fees than she will get in child support over the next five years. Waste of time and money that only benefited the attorneys. Dumb.

PS, I would have bumped up child support if she had asked. We didn't get to that until we got my issue about work travel worked out with the attorneys. Dumb.


----------



## angstire

btw, quoting the JPA when you contact her is a great idea and puts in front of her face that she's violating the agreement. Unfortunately, my experience has been that if they want to stonewall, they won't be reasonable even in the face of violating court orders. 10 years in, I can tell you, you're in for some frustrating encounters.

If you can come up with your own rules on how to interact with her, it will make your life more simple and less stressful. I don't resond to emails unless there is a question mark or it has to do with the kids. b1tching about her life, gets no response from me. Statements about how the kids don't listen to her, no response.


----------



## angstire

One more thing, and then I'm done, but I've also used the negative opt out with my X1. It works for expenses, sleepovers, all kinds of parenting issues.

For instance, "I will deduct your half of the expenses for xyz from the next child support check. Let me know if you have other ideas on this." Obviously, this would work better for expenses if you were writing a check each month, rather than auto deduct, but it can work for anything that she won't answer you on. Tell her what you've decided to do and give her the opportunity to respond with another idea. It forces the convo. You can add a deadline too, if you want, but I don't always give her that identified amount of time to stonewall.

This one and the question mark rule have worked well for me.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Pbartender said:


> Last Friday, I sent the WWotMW another reminder...
> 
> _"S15's lunch account is out of money, and D13's is running low. Please deposit your half for this month. I signed up D13 up for cheerleading and paid the $139 fee. Please reimburse for half. Also, please send me your work schedule for the upcoming weeks."_
> 
> No reply from her since then. No money deposited in the lunch accounts.
> 
> S15 said he'd was still eating school lunches, but his account history didn't show any lunches purchased all last week. Turns out he had been using his own cash to buy lunches.
> 
> I can't let him do that, so I added more money for lunches for both of them.
> 
> issed:issed:issed:issed:issed:


You pay child support. Why are you paying fees and lunch money? If Mom doesn't pay in time it sucks but shrug your shoulders and say you sent the money to her already and it's up to her to pay the bills.

I make lunch, put money into the account, pay for gymnastics, meet fees, etc. all out of child support. I even have to pay the first $250 of medical bills annually - then we split based on salary ratio.

The kids will see what she's doing (or not).


----------



## Nucking Futs

EnjoliWoman said:


> You pay child support. Why are you paying fees and lunch money? If Mom doesn't pay in time it sucks but shrug your shoulders and say you sent the money to her already and it's up to her to pay the bills.
> 
> I make lunch, put money into the account, pay for gymnastics, meet fees, etc. all out of child support. I even have to pay the first $250 of medical bills annually - then we split based on salary ratio.
> 
> The kids will see what she's doing (or not).


He's doing it so the kids can eat without spending whatever pocket money they have on food. Kudos for taking care of the kids first and dealing with the deadbeat mom second.


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## angelpixie

I see Enjoli's point, Pbar. It's not right that you pay your half of the month's lunches, then pay her support that she doesn't use to pay for the rest of the month's lunches. I don't know if your school does this, but DS' school will let him eat 'on account' if he's short lunch money (which used to happen because I made lunches but gave DS emergency money which he put on his lunch account. Ex would often forget lunches, so DS used up the emergency fund). Then the school harasses us with automated phone calls til it's reimbursed. Is this a possibility for your kids, except it's her phone number that gets the harassing phone calls? 

I know it's tough to expect your kids to get in the middle, but really, they are old enough to bug her to refill their account -- or to ask for money to go buy bread and pb & j. Eventually, a parent will give in just to get a child to be quiet, if nothing else. Would your kids understand if you explained the situation that you are already paying their mom, and you can't afford to pay more than your share of the lunches?


----------



## angelpixie

And I wanted to add that I think it says a lot for your kids that they used their own money for lunch and didn't try to add to your stress. But even though she's their mom, there comes a time when they need to start holding her accountable -- as part of their own self-esteem.


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## Ceegee

That WWofMW is a deadbeat is not exactly breaking news.

If PB needed to get on the offensive for each occurrence he'd have no life whatsoever.

Just document this in the ever-growing list and take her to court for contempt when it's financially advantageous for you.

Shouldn't take long.


----------



## Pbartender

angstire said:


> btw, quoting the JPA when you contact her is a great idea and puts in front of her face that she's violating the agreement. Unfortunately, my experience has been that if they want to stonewall, they won't be reasonable even in the face of violating court orders. 10 years in, I can tell you, you're in for some frustrating encounters.


Quoting the MSA/JPA is more for the inevitable chat with a judge, than it is for either me or her.



angstire said:


> I don't resond to emails unless there is a question mark or it has to do with the kids. b1tching about her life, gets no response from me. Statements about how the kids don't listen to her, no response.


The trouble is, she's got a slightly different MO than most of the other WSs around here. Most others explode to one degree or another, if you stand up to them. She shuts down, when I do.

So it's not about trying to get her to stay on target. It's about trying to get her to do anything at all.



EnjoliWoman said:


> You pay child support. Why are you paying fees and lunch money? If Mom doesn't pay in time it sucks but shrug your shoulders and say you sent the money to her already and it's up to her to pay the bills.


According to the MSA/JPA, I pay a relatively small amount of child support. She pays for their medical insurance. We split school expenses (registration, books, lunches, extracurriculars, etc...) and uncovered medical expenses.



EnjoliWoman said:


> The kids will see what she's doing (or not).


They've already noticed. They mention it in their way.



angelpixie said:


> I see Enjoli's point, Pbar. It's not right that you pay your half of the month's lunches, then pay her support that she doesn't use to pay for the rest of the month's lunches. I don't know if your school does this, but DS' school will let him eat 'on account' if he's short lunch money (which used to happen because I made lunches but gave DS emergency money which he put on his lunch account. Ex would often forget lunches, so DS used up the emergency fund). Then the school harasses us with automated phone calls til it's reimbursed. Is this a possibility for your kids, except it's her phone number that gets the harassing phone calls?


S15 had told me his account was getting low. I knew, because I get email reminders. I'd told him that it was X's turn for lunch money. 

Our school will do the same thing. S15, apparently, chose not to take advantage of it.



angelpixie said:


> I know it's tough to expect your kids to get in the middle, but really, they are old enough to bug her to refill their account -- or to ask for money to go buy bread and pb & j. Eventually, a parent will give in just to get a child to be quiet, if nothing else. Would your kids understand if you explained the situation that you are already paying their mom, and you can't afford to pay more than your share of the lunches?


They are fully aware of what their mother's responsibilities are. And I know they are aware of when she is and isn't fulfilling them, and when I have to step in and pick up the slack.

There are things that I won't step in over... X promised D13 could go to a summer music camp, and she didn't get to, because X blew her money on other stuff. X promised D13 could have a laptop for her birthday, and it won't happen.

But when it comes to basic stuff like clothes or food or education expenses or school lunches... I will make sure it gets paid for, that they get what they need, and I will be the one to confront X about it.


----------



## angelpixie

Yeah, I get it. I can't stand to see DS do without when his dad is an a-hole. I don't envy your situation at all, Pbar. I know you're doing the best you can and what you feel is right.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Yeah, I get it. I can't stand to see DS do without when his dad is an a-hole. I don't envy your situation at all, Pbar. I know you're doing the best you can and what you feel is right.


It's such a tough line to walk... How much do I let them do without, before I step in? In this instance, I had to draw the line with S15 paying to provide for his own necessities.

I sent a mess to the WWotMW, confronting her about the situation and a few other things:

_I have some concerns about S15...

First, he is getting a C in Math and failing English. As you have him on majority of school nights, you need to make certain he is doing his homework.

Second, the other day, he had an argument in Gym class with another student, which resulted in him tearing up his weight lifting log. His teacher wants his to recopy it. Please remind him.

Lastly, last week, S15 ran out of lunch money. He apparently used his own money to buy lunches at school. I have deposited another two weeks worth of lunches for him and D13. Please reimburse me for half of this month ($50), or deposit matching funds for next month ($100)._

She replied...

*WWotMW:* "D13 brings a lunch from home (at least on the days she is with me)."

*Pbar:* "Last week, she ordered a lunch three out of four days she left for school from your house." _[I can see the kids' account history online.]_

*WWotMW:* "I will talk to her, she has been packing a lunch every day"

*Pbar:* "How can you tell? I thought you were working early mornings now? Which reminds me, I'm still waiting for you to send me your work schedule in accordance with the JPA."

*WWotMW:* "I am off on Wednesday and Saturday... as I told you previously"

*Pbar:* "You informed me of that nearly three weeks ago... Are you off every Wed and Sat now? What hours do you work on your workdays?"

And I haven't heard from her since. 

It's a LOT harder for me to stay calm, cool, and detached, when her irresponsibility affects the kids.


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> It's a LOT harder for me to stay calm, cool, and detached, when her irresponsibility affects the kids.


Too true.


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## zillard

angelpixie said:


> Too true.


Yeah. PapaBear anger is not an easy one to tackle. 

The good news is you have plenty of time to practice.


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## Pluto2

I don't think she's just irresponsible. It looks a lot more like WWotMW is flat out lying. But as you've said, when confronted with anything she tends to shut down, but usually after trying to take a swipe at you. Duck and cover.


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## SadSamIAm

My kids hardly ever buy lunch at school. Sounds
to me like the kids are supposed to be packing a lunch. 

Why are you depositing money at all for lunches?

Could be that the kids are being lazy and not packing a lunch? Or it could be that there is nothing at home for them to take for a lunch?

I can't see you winning on a thing like this. You should stay out of it. Just like you can't ensure they have food for supper when you aren't there you can't ensure there is food for their lunches.


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## Ceegee

SadSamIAm said:


> My kids hardly ever buy lunch at school. Sounds
> to me like the kids are supposed to be packing a lunch.
> 
> Why are you depositing money at all for lunches?
> 
> Could be that the kids are being lazy and not packing a lunch? Or it could be that there is nothing at home for them to take for a lunch?
> 
> I can't see you winning on a thing like this. You should stay out of it. Just like you can't ensure they have food for supper when you aren't there you can't ensure there is food for their lunches.


I have to agree with this PB.

You know WWotMW is less than responsible. (And like an ostrich with her head in the sand when confronted).

I understand your desire to provide for the kids. It's your prerogative to do so even when it's not your responsibility.

If you choose to do so you'll have to live with the consequence.


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## zillard

Well he CAN ensure that they have lunches... by continuing to dish out for them.

And she'll take advantage of that if she knows he'll do it. 

Unless there are consequences. One option could be deductions from child support. 

Trick is finding one that is legal and also won't bite you in the arse.

Otherwise it may be better to let it go.


----------



## Ceegee

Legality of deducting from child support may vary from state to state.

I had a situation last week where I needed soccer gear for D7. XW refused to give to me. 

When I asked attorney if I could buy it and deduct it from CS she said no.

She is still taking advantage of him the same way she was before the divorce. 

Whichever way PB chooses to handle this will be fine. WWotMW will be the one paying the ultimate price sooner or later.


----------



## zillard

Ceegee said:


> If you choose to do so you'll have to live with the consequence.


I like this. It's true.

My X does not provide health insurance for D7 as required in JPA. 

As long as I continue to provide it, there will be resentment. 

Less money and more resentment is my consequence. But I can accept that as long as D7 is covered. 

I do keep records and they will be used in future JPA reviews, so the imbalance is potentially only temporary. At least it feels better to tell myself that.


----------



## Pam

I have a 17-year-old grandson, so I can kinda/sorta get inside a teenage boy's head. It is possible that, to S15, buying lunch "on account" would hint at charity, and pride wouldn't allow that. My teenager doesn't pack lunches, I guess that would be a regional thing. I'd have to continue to deposit the money into his account, and keep a ledger for the visit to the judge. But if that causes a financial hardship, it's tough.


----------



## Pbartender

SadSamIAm said:


> My kids hardly ever buy lunch at school. Sounds
> to me like the kids are supposed to be packing a lunch.


S15 prefers to get a hot lunch at school. He's been doing it for the last 5 years. Having high-functioning autism, it saves him the time and trouble of packing a lunch, and that gives him just a little extra time in the morning before school to relax and mentally prepare himself for the day. It's a small thing that made a big difference for him.

D13, too, has been eating hot lunches at school for years. She has a slight preference for taking a lunch from home, because X has always indulged her with fancy goodies to pack in her lunch. But even before we were separated, X was inconsistent about supplying stuff for lunches from home. So, I have always kept money in D13's lunch account for the days she didn't take a lunch from home... whether it was because she forgot a lunch, or she didn't have time to pack it, or there wasn't anything to pack.



SadSamIAm said:


> Why are you depositing money at all for lunches?


Simply, because it gets used.



SadSamIAm said:


> Could be that the kids are being lazy and not packing a lunch? Or it could be that there is nothing at home for them to take for a lunch?


It could be either... or both. From what I've gleaned, X is only home on Wednesday mornings to see them off to school. The other mornings they're with her, they're on their own to get ready.



SadSamIAm said:


> I can't see you winning on a thing like this. You should stay out of it. Just like you can't ensure they have food for supper when you aren't there you can't ensure there is food for their lunches.


Yes I can. by putting money in their lunch account.

It's not about winning. It about making sure my kids have something to eat for lunch at school every day.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> I have to agree with this PB.
> 
> You know WWotMW is less than responsible. (And like an ostrich with her head in the sand when confronted).
> 
> I understand your desire to provide for the kids. It's your prerogative to do so even when it's not your responsibility.
> 
> If you choose to do so you'll have to live with the consequence.





zillard said:


> Well he CAN ensure that they have lunches... by continuing to dish out for them.
> 
> And she'll take advantage of that if she knows he'll do it.
> 
> Unless there are consequences. One option could be deductions from child support.
> 
> *Trick is finding one that is legal and also won't bite you in the arse.*
> 
> Otherwise it may be better to let it go.





Ceegee said:


> Legality of deducting from child support may vary from state to state.
> 
> I had a situation last week where I needed soccer gear for D7. XW refused to give to me.
> 
> When I asked attorney if I could buy it and deduct it from CS she said no.
> 
> She is still taking advantage of him the same way she was before the divorce.
> 
> Whichever way PB chooses to handle this will be fine. WWotMW will be the one paying the ultimate price sooner or later.





zillard said:


> I like this. It's true.
> 
> My X does not provide health insurance for D7 as required in JPA.
> 
> As long as I continue to provide it, there will be resentment.
> 
> Less money and more resentment is my consequence. But I can accept that as long as D7 is covered.
> 
> I do keep records and they will be used in future JPA reviews, so the imbalance is potentially only temporary. At least it feels better to tell myself that.


Do you guys remember when the WWotMW didn't want to pay that court ordered temporary support?

Right. Exactly.

I don't have to fix this problem myself. So long as I document the proof and have a little bit of patience, I have lawyers and judges that will deal with this for me. Remember, back in July, just the threat of being held in contempt of court was enough to get her to pay.

So yes. I will provide lunches for the kids. I will have less money and a more resentment. And I can handle that as long as the kids are fed.

And yes. In this instance, I will live with the consequences of providing for the kids even when it's not my responsibility.

Those consequences will be that the WWotMW will be taken back to court for violating the JPA and MSA. She will have to pay for all the court fees and both lawyers.

Or, she can avoid that by paying what's owed and informing me of her work schedule.



Pam said:


> I have a 17-year-old grandson, so I can kinda/sorta get inside a teenage boy's head. It is possible that, to S15, buying lunch "on account" would hint at charity, and pride wouldn't allow that.


No... he's bought lunches with a negative account before... I'm not sure what motivated him to pay with cash this time.


----------



## Ceegee

Keep on rocking!!!


----------



## Pbartender




----------



## Pbartender

zillard said:


> Yeah. PapaBear anger is not an easy one to tackle.
> 
> The good news is you have plenty of time to practice.


There are times, Z, when I almost envy your situation... Sometimes it feels as if things would be so much easier -- so much _better_ even -- if X had simply moved to another state and left the kids with me.


----------



## Ceegee

What are you doing for YOU this week. 

You're doing great with the kids. 

You're handling WWotMW as well as can be expected. 

Are you having some fun?


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> What are you doing for YOU this week.
> 
> You're doing great with the kids.
> 
> You're handling WWotMW as well as can be expected.
> 
> Are you having some fun?


Yes. Yes, I am.

Saturday, the kids and I went out to Goodwill and popped some tags... filled up our wardrobes with pile of come ups... we're some cold-ass *******.

My best find of the day was a real nice Pampered Chef spatula... I've got one that's my favorite for flipping pancakes and eggs, omelets and crepes and stuff. I found another just like it, practically unused, for $0.99... The damn thing cost almost $15 in the catalog when we originally bought it.

Yesterday, I got together with a bunch of my Freaks, Greeks and Weirdos from my favorite Meetup group, and we all watched David Lynch's _Dune_ on the big screen at the second-run theater. A few out stopped out at a nearby pub for a couple of beers afterward.

I also got touch with a local community choir... They practice every Monday night. I'm joining up next week.

Right now, I'm washing dishes and catching up on the laundry while rockin' out to some Beastie Boys.

And when I finish that, I'll treat myself to some Futurama reruns and a taste or two of Jagermeister.

:smthumbup:


----------



## zillard

Pbartender said:


> There are times, Z, when I almost envy your situation... Sometimes it feels as if things would be so much easier -- so much _better_ even -- if X had simply moved to another state and left the kids with me.


In a way I lucked out. 

I'm really liking my situation, in general. 

The situation could definitely be better for D7 (due to things beyond my control). 

But that statement will always be true. 

So it's ok.


----------



## soca70

Pbartender said:


> Last Friday, I sent the WWotMW another reminder...
> 
> _"S15's lunch account is out of money, and D13's is running low. Please deposit your half for this month. I signed up D13 up for cheerleading and paid the $139 fee. Please reimburse for half. Also, please send me your work schedule for the upcoming weeks."_
> 
> No reply from her since then. No money deposited in the lunch accounts.
> 
> S15 said he'd was still eating school lunches, but his account history didn't show any lunches purchased all last week. Turns out he had been using his own cash to buy lunches.
> 
> I can't let him do that, so I added more money for lunches for both of them.
> 
> issed:issed:issed:issed:issed:


Ha! I got this also this week when my kids informed me they were told they had no money in the lunch account. We have a deal where I cover the family gym membership in exchange for the lunches so I sent a friendly reminder text to pay ASAP. Which happened but I received a reply back that the gym membership was $98 and the lunches were $148 so what were we to do? I felt like saying you will suck up $50 a month for my being inconvenienced. However, we keep monthly tabs on all this and settle each month per the custody agreement (receipts required by law but rarely does either ask for them).

No advice, PB, but I feel your pain!


----------



## Pbartender

Oh, hey! In other news...

Do you guys remember Hot Blonde Mom and Boxer? Looks like they're getting married.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Oh, hey! In other news...
> 
> Do you guys remember Hot Blonde Mom and Boxer? Looks like they're getting married.


They aren't wasting any time are they?


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> They aren't wasting any time are they?


That's what I thought, too... I'd have to look back and double-check, but think it's been less right about six months since they got together.

I love them both. They're both good people. But they're both still in that ridiculously shmoopy honeymoon phase, and, if I remember right, this will be his third marriage and her fourth... I'd honestly be surprised if it lasts.

HBM was a helluva fun woman to hang out and party with, but I think I'm glad it never went farther than that between her and I. There've been too many Red Flags flying in her fort since then, and much of her general attitude and behavior is too close to that of the WWotMW for comfort.

Dodged a bullet there, I should think.


----------



## angstire

six months and married, it sounds like a good fairy tale, but that's what it will likely be.


----------



## tom67

angstire said:


> six months and married, it sounds like a good fairy tale, but that's what it will likely be.


Her fourth yes you dodged a bullet there mucho baggage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angstire

Pbartender said:


> Yesterday, I got together with a bunch of my Freaks, Greeks and Weirdos from my favorite Meetup group, and we all watched David Lynch's _Dune_ on the big screen at the second-run theater. A few out stopped out at a nearby pub for a couple of beers afterward.
> 
> Right now, I'm washing dishes and catching up on the laundry while rockin' out to some Beastie Boys.


Conan, Dune and Beastie Boys--You're a cool dude. For us geeky types anyway. Rock on.


----------



## Pbartender

angstire said:


> Conan, Dune and Beastie Boys--You're a cool dude. For us geeky types anyway. Rock on.


:rofl:

_"Better to reign in Nerdery, than to serve in Popularity."_ *- John Milton*

:lol:


----------



## zillard

Pbartender said:


> :rofl:
> 
> _"Better to reign in Nerdery, than to serve in Popularity."_ *- John Milton*
> 
> :lol:


Mmm. Talk nerdy to me, pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pbartender

Pbartender said:


> ...if I remember right, this will be his third marriage and her fourth...


Sorry, I stand corrected.

HBM was married once before (divorced), was engaged once before (cancelled) and then had a long-term live-in boyfriend (who dumped her and stole a bunch of her stuff when he moved out).

Boxer was married once (divorced), and was engaged once (cancelled).

I was getting all the baggage mixed up... sounded like a whole bunch of marriages and divorces in the telling.

Either way... There's a history there of quickly jumping into long-term commitment, and it turning out badly. Big Red Flag. And one best avoided.


----------



## Pbartender

Latest text(s) from the WWotMW...

"I have not spoken to D13 yet, but would appreciate it if you did not allow her to go to [LOCAL TEENAGE HANGOUT] on Fridays for a while... I was grabbing laundry in her room and found beer hidden in a backpack in her laundry basket. I had heard that the [LOCAL TEENAGE HANGOUT] crowd was experimenting but had expected her to steer clear of it. I think it is best if she spends some time away from her friends right now. I am wondering if all of her extracurriculars are a good idea right now, also. I will talk to her when she gets home... also I canceled the replacement phone I had ordered for her, since it would most likely be taken away immediately"

What I _wanted_ to do was respond with a reminder of the assorted activities she admitted to doing at that age, a reminder of how she's still involved in those same activities now, and a reminder of how little effect her mother's punishments had on her behavior at that age.

What I _did_ do was to respond simply with:

"Agreed on [LOCAL TEENAGE HANGOUT]. She will be restricted until further notice."

Until I get the whole story, that's enough for now. D13 and I will have a long talk, when she comes back to my place tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## tom67

Pbartender said:


> Latest text(s) from the WWotMW...
> 
> "I have not spoken to D13 yet, but would appreciate it if you did not allow her to go to [LOCAL TEENAGE HANGOUT] on Fridays for a while... I was grabbing laundry in her room and found beer hidden in a backpack in her laundry basket. I had heard that the [LOCAL TEENAGE HANGOUT] crowd was experimenting but had expected her to steer clear of it. I think it is best if she spends some time away from her friends right now. I am wondering if all of her extracurriculars are a good idea right now, also. I will talk to her when she gets home... also I canceled the replacement phone I had ordered for her, since it would most likely be taken away immediately"
> 
> What I _wanted_ to do was respond with a reminder of the assorted activities she admitted to doing at that age, a reminder of how she's still involved in those same activities now, and a reminder of how little effect her mother's punishments had on her behavior at that age.
> 
> What I _did_ do was to respond simply with:
> 
> "Agreed on [LOCAL TEENAGE HANGOUT]. She will be restricted until further notice."
> 
> Until I get the whole story, that's enough for now. D13 and I will have a long talk, when she comes back to my place tomorrow afternoon.


Good call on that nip it now! I know you will.


----------



## Jellybeans

Handled like a pro!


----------



## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> Sorry, I stand corrected.
> 
> HBM was married once before (divorced), was engaged once before (cancelled) and then had a long-term live-in boyfriend (who dumped her and stole a bunch of her stuff when he moved out).
> 
> Boxer was married once (divorced), and was engaged once (cancelled).
> 
> I was getting all the baggage mixed up... sounded like a whole bunch of marriages and divorces in the telling.
> 
> Either way... There's a history there of quickly jumping into long-term commitment, and it turning out badly. Big Red Flag. And one best avoided.


Call me crazy but that actually doesn't sound so bad. I mean, yeah it sucks that none of them lasted til Forever but I don't believe in Forever or Soulmates anyway. Sounds like she had one divorce, one engagement (better broken off early if it wasn't working out) and another long-term. Sounds like she knows how to do long-term so not so bad?

Am I just sounding crazy? Lol.


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> Call me crazy but that actually doesn't sound so bad. I mean, yeah it sucks that none of them lasted til Forever but I don't believe in Forever or Soulmates anyway. Sounds like she had one divorce, one engagement (better broken off early if it wasn't working out) and another long-term. Sounds like she knows how to do long-term so not so bad?


Sorry. Should have elaborated. Several long-term relationships that ended wasn't the Red Flag in of itself. The stories and circumstances surrounding her relationships, rather, made it a big Red Flag.

For example...

All her exes -- long-term or not -- are jerks who screwed her over.

She seems to have had virtually no time being single between any of her committed relationships.

In conversations with her, what she said she wanted in a relationship never matched up with what she actually responded to in a relationship.

Her personal interests and hobbies all change to match those of her partner, without retaining any of her own.

She seems to derive the majority of her personal validation from her partner's public displays of attention.

The men she chooses -- long-term or not -- all have remarkably similar traits, even when those traits caused the end of previous relationships.

And so on... Anyway, the collection reminds me too much of the WWotMW. Better off to stay friends with her, as I should have done with X so many years ago.


----------



## Pbartender

Text from X regarding D13:

"She says that a friend asked her to take them (a friend that I haven't met named T----). I told her that she will not be spending time with her friends."

That's cool. Whatever.

I'll still talk with D13 directly tomorrow.


----------



## angelpixie

Yes. Keep your own separate line of communication open with D13, while still communicating (for now, at least) with WWotMW.


----------



## tom67

I was 16 when the speech happened vomiting the next morning my dad goes "well we knew this day would come" among ahem other things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pbartender

tom67 said:


> I was 16 when the speech happened vomiting the next morning my dad goes "well we knew this day would come" among ahem other things.


I have a sneaking suspicion I could make a pretty good guess about what's actually going on, but I want to talk with D13 before settle my brain on it.

Suffice it to say, I'm less worried about the beer than how she and some of her new friends interact.


----------



## zillard

tom67 said:


> I was 16 when the speech happened vomiting the next morning my dad goes "well we knew this day would come" among ahem other things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The first time I came home drunk, my brothers shaved my head.

Nevermind the fact that they got me drunk. D!cks.


----------



## just got it 55

Ceegee said:


> You did, didn't you?


That Sh!t is toooh funny


----------



## Pbartender

zillard said:


> The first time I came home drunk, my brothers shaved my head.
> 
> Nevermind the fact that they got me drunk. D!cks.


I can count the number of times I was truly drunk on one hand. The most memorable was...

Senior year in college. That week between finishing final exams and commencement. Nothing to do but celebrate.

Over the course of one night I drank a most of a bottle of whiskey, part of a bottle of vodka, and a couple of beers. In the midst of all that, my buddies and I got hungry, so we ordered a whole pile of the sort of cheap, greasy pizza that you can only find in college towns. To top it off, my best friend from down the hall cracked open his humidor and passed around the big, stinky cigars.

Booze... greasy pizza... stinky cigar. I think I would have been okay with any two of the three. But all three of them were just too much. At the end of the night, I got back to my dorm room, and as soon as my head hit the pillow... *BLEARGH!* Straight up and straight back down.

I got up, bundled all my bedclothes into a plastic garbage bag, tossed it into the closet, hosed myself off in the shower, and went back to bed.

In the morning, I did laundry.

That year, I had a roommate from Japan... And he was stereotypically Japanese in every way. Great guy. That morning, he told me, "Oh, Pbar. It was-ah so disglaceful. You were rike a vorcano!"

:smthumbup:


----------



## Pbartender

I had been giving D13 a loose leash independence-wise, because I had a lot of trust in her. Regardless of the circumstances and reasons behind it, she broke my trust. As a result, she forfeits her privacy.

This is something I had to the kids about before... That while living in my home, I will afford them privacy when it comes to their bedrooms, their phones, and any online email or social media accounts. But that privacy is only a privilege granted to them by my trust in them, and it can be taken away.

So, last night, I "confiscated" her email accounts and her Facebook account until further notice. I logged in, changed her passwords, and reset her password recovery email address to mine. Then, I gave all her accounts a good going through.

She had one long conversation with a boy. The two of them seem to be very good friends, but his half of the conversation caught my eye... He would continually and persistently ask her if she wanted to be her boyfriend. She kept telling him no, that she's already got a boyfriend, but he'd ask again and again and again. He then started asking about her boyfriend (she hasn't been able to see him as much as she'd like, because of summer vacations and this year's class schedules). When her reply made it seem things weren't going great, he started asking her to date him again.

Persistent Little ******. 

Anyway, while I'm reading through, he posts a message... "do u wanna go to the football game with me tomorrow"

I couldn't resist the chance to have a little bit of fun with him. 

*Pbar:* PLB, I am D13's father. No, she can't go to the football game with you tonight. She got caught hiding beer in her bedroom. Until further notice, I now own her Facebook account.

*PLB:* okay and when did i ask that

*Pbar:* September 5th, 9:36pm... "have u ever masterbated"

*Pbar:* Come on. I know you guys are teenagers and all jazzed up on ideas about sex and drinking and swearing and all sort of "adult" garbage like that, but you should know better than that. If you really want to date her, then do it right.

*PLB:* it couldnt have been me because i was able ot get on facebook during the first week of the month and okay

*Pbar:* Then, who could it have been? Your evil twin? _[Insert screenshot of previous part of the conversation containing the pertinent quote.]_

*PLB:* okay it was me

*Pbar:* Thus far, PLB, you aren't making a very good case as to why D13 would want to date you.

*PLB:* i see 

You know... I'm not so certain he does see. :FIREdevil:


----------



## angelpixie

Ooooh, I could see my dad doing the exact same thing. 


Oh wait, no I can't. My dad would never have let me near a computer, much less have a FB, email, my own phone, time out of the house other than for school... 


BUT if he _did_, he would have done what you did. With great relish. :rofl: 

I can see you're going to be the scourge of D13's potential suitors well into the future.


----------



## Pluto2

I am very happy NOT to be a thirteen year old girl.
Way to be a good dad PBar!


----------



## tom67

I better go through my d15s emails after this:FIREdevil:


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> I had been giving D13 a loose leash independence-wise, because I had a lot of trust in her. Regardless of the circumstances and reasons behind it, she broke my trust. As a result, she forfeits her privacy.
> 
> This is something I had to the kids about before... That while living in my home, I will afford them privacy when it comes to their bedrooms, their phones, and any online email or social media accounts. But that privacy is only a privilege granted to them by my trust in them, and it can be taken away.
> 
> So, last night, I "confiscated" her email accounts and her Facebook account until further notice. I logged in, changed her passwords, and reset her password recovery email address to mine. Then, I gave all her accounts a good going through.
> 
> She had one long conversation with a boy. The two of them seem to be very good friends, but his half of the conversation caught my eye... He would continually and persistently ask her if she wanted to be her boyfriend. She kept telling him no, that she's already got a boyfriend, but he'd ask again and again and again. He then started asking about her boyfriend (she hasn't been able to see him as much as she'd like, because of summer vacations and this year's class schedules). When her reply made it seem things weren't going great, he started asking her to date him again.
> 
> Persistent Little ******.
> 
> Anyway, while I'm reading through, he posts a message... "do u wanna go to the football game with me tomorrow"
> 
> I couldn't resist the chance to have a little bit of fun with him.
> 
> *Pbar:* PLB, I am D13's father. No, she can't go to the football game with you tonight. She got caught hiding beer in her bedroom. Until further notice, I now own her Facebook account.
> 
> *PLB:* okay and when did i ask that
> 
> *Pbar:* September 5th, 9:36pm... "have u ever masterbated"
> 
> *Pbar:* Come on. I know you guys are teenagers and all jazzed up on ideas about sex and drinking and swearing and all sort of "adult" garbage like that, but you should know better than that. If you really want to date her, then do it right.
> 
> *PLB:* it couldnt have been me because i was able ot get on facebook during the first week of the month and okay
> 
> *Pbar:* Then, who could it have been? Your evil twin? _[Insert screenshot of previous part of the conversation containing the pertinent quote.]_
> 
> *PLB:* okay it was me
> 
> *Pbar:* Thus far, PLB, you aren't making a very good case as to why D13 would want to date you.
> 
> *PLB:* i see
> 
> You know... I'm not so certain he does see. :FIREdevil:


It's an awesome time to be a "nerd" dad. 

Knowing how all of this stuff works allows us to give them more freedom. When there's a slip up or reason to snoop we know how to do it. 

Does D13 know about this yet?

Great job! As usual. 

My D is only 7. Gosh, don't even want to think about this stuff yet.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> I can see you're going to be the scourge of D13's potential suitors well into the future.


Not all of them... just the asshats.



Ceegee said:


> Does D13 know about this yet?


She does now. 

She and I talked it all over last night. Here's what happened...

D13 has a relatively new friend. This friend asked D13 to get some beer for her, and D13 agreed to it.

The WWotMW had almost an entire case of cheap beer in the fridge. Tuesday morning, before school and while X was at work, D13 stole one can of beer from the case, thinking that it wouldn't be noticed missing amongst all the others. She put it in one of those small, purse-like backpacks, and then hid the backpack at the bottom of a basket of clean laundry in her bedroom.

The plan was to keep it hidden there, smuggle it over to my place when she switched from X's house to mine yesterday, and then keep it hidden until tonight, when she would give it to her friend during their usual meetup at the [LOCAL TEENAGE HANGOUT].

D13 said she wasn't going to drink it, and I believe her... The whole shenanigan was, in effect, just a big #3 she was pulling in the hopes of solidifying a friendship. The friend, incidentally, threw D13 under the bus... Her parents, currently, don't know anything about what happened, and she didn't get into any trouble over all this. I may have to find a way to rectify that situation.

Anyway, we had a short, but thorough talk about just what sort of "friend" would ask her to risk that sort of trouble without any possible benefit or reward in return, and then not take any responsibility for the consequences when plan falls through.

Thinking about it, it was, actually, not a half bad plan. I, myself, likely would not have found it, as I would have had no reason to go snooping through D13's backpacks, bags and purses.

In fact, that's the one thing that strikes me as odd about the whole situation... Since we moved into that house three years ago, I can't think of a single instance of the WWotMW going into D13's room for any reason when D13 wasn't there. 

Why was she in there in the first place? Why was she digging through a pile of D13's clean laundry? And why did she bother to open up and snoop through what was likely a perfectly inconspicuous bag in the midst of that pile?

Given D13's past record of behavior, I don't think I was especially naive or overly trusting of her. 

But something seems fishy about the way X found the beer. It almost smacks of her general craziness manifesting as paranoia. Normally, such behavior would have been directed at me... But I'm not around anymore. This doesn't bode well for the kids.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> But something seems fishy about the way X found the beer. It almost smacks of *her general craziness manifesting as paranoia*. Normally, such behavior would have been directed at me... But I'm not around anymore. This doesn't bode well for the kids.


Bingo.

Guilty people live a life filled with paranoia.

That, or she drank the rest of the case and knew there had to be another one somewhere in the house.


----------



## Pbartender

Ah, there was something else that was bugging me about this whole situation, and I just figured out what it is...

The WWotMW won't spend $25 to pay for half of S15's school lunches for the month, and yet she'll spend $25 to stock her fridge with beer.

:redcard: :banghead: :wtf:

In other news, next week is D13's birthday. I just got a birthday card in the mail from MIL for D13... addressed to "D13, c/o Pbartender" at my new address. Wow. That says something.


----------



## Mavash.

PB I have a friend who cried poor mouth while she was going through her divorce. Claimed her kids didn't have enough food for breakfast because he had cut off the money. True.

She guilted a few people into giving her some cash with that sob story.

I wondered how they'd feel if they knew she was still smoking and shopping. :scratchhead:

The epitome of watch their actions over what they say. She didn't care about her kids. She cared more about herself than them.


----------



## angelpixie

And Chinless and Trampire are the same. Planning the wedding at the mansion, while I'm paying for sax repair, school supplies, clothes, haircuts, etc., because they're so poor. And they're trying to game me out of the last of the cash he owes me. 

As if they think we can't see. issed:


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Ah, there was something else that was bugging me about this whole situation, and I just figured out what it is...
> 
> The WWotMW won't spend $25 to pay for half of S15's school lunches for the month, and yet she'll spend $25 to stock her fridge with beer.
> 
> :redcard: :banghead: :wtf:
> 
> In other news, next week is D13's birthday. I just got a birthday card in the mail from MIL for D13... addressed to "D13, c/o Pbartender" at my new address. Wow. That says something.


Even MIL knows what's up.


----------



## Pbartender

Last night, D13 texted me to say Hi...

*Pbar:* Is your phone working now?

*D13:* My phone doesn't work but Toxic Avenger had an old phone im borrowing

*Pbar:* Oh, by the way... Looks like a birthday card came in the mail for you today! I'll hang onto to it for you until Thursday.

*D13:* Ok thanks!

*D13:* Look what i got









*D13:* early birthday present!

*Pbar:* Nice.

*D13:* Mmhmm wasn't suposed to be but i saw it 

*Pbar:* It's hard to hide something that huge...

*D13:* Yup


----------



## catcalls

did you get the panda for her or was it from the WWofTMW? looks like she loves it.

never understood the appeal of stuffed toys even as a teenager and especially now when i see men buy stuffed toys and chocolates for their grown up women. what is the attraction? All i can see is a giant dust gatherer.


----------



## Pbartender

catcalls said:


> did you get the panda for her or was it from the WWofTMW? looks like she loves it.


It was a gift from WWotMW.

D13 is a teenager, and the giant panda is a novelty. She saw them in the store and thought they were pretty cool, because they were huge and fuzzy. I declined to get her one, because they were expensive and she had no place to keep one.

She has a roomful of stuffed animals that she's gotten as presents over the years... they'd be loved for about a week, and then dumped in a corner of her room and forgotten.

This morning, D13 sent me another photo of "Part two of bday stuff"... A stack of a half dozen or so used Nintendo games from X.

When buying and giving gifts, the WWotMW has always had a tendency to place a great deal of value on the size of a gift and the quantity of gifts she's giving. She typically gives only superficial thought as to whether the gifts are something the recipient will actually value or use.

It makes for a very impressive display at the party or celebration where the gifts are given, but one that is, ultimately, an empty gesture.


----------



## wtf2012

Pbartender said:


> It was a gift from WWotMW.
> 
> D13 is a teenager, and the giant panda is a novelty. She saw them in the store and thought they were pretty cool, because they were huge and fuzzy. I declined to get her one, because they were expensive and she had no place to keep one.
> 
> She has a roomful of stuffed animals that she's gotten as presents over the years... they'd be loved for about a week, and then dumped in a corner of her room and forgotten.
> 
> This morning, D13 sent me another photo of "Part two of bday stuff"... A stack of a half dozen or so used Nintendo games from X.
> 
> When buying and giving gifts, the WWotMW has always had a tendency to place a great deal of value on the size of a gift and the quantity of gifts she's giving. She typically gives only superficial thought as to whether the gifts are something the recipient will actually value or use.
> 
> It makes for a very impressive display at the party or celebration where the gifts are given, but one that is, ultimately, an empty gesture.


My STBXW's narcissist alcoholic mother is the same way. She loves to let everyone know how much she spent on the kids. What is hilarious is the kids at 11, 7, and 5 already know that the only thing she is consistently good for is money.


----------



## 2galsmom

I could write volumes on dysfunctional gift giving but I will spare you all, now I say it makes the kids happy. They do not see the bull**** behind the gift or the games and it is a source of joy in their life and I will not take it away from them.

That is the new mature calm me, the old me sent a whole box of gifts back to my in-laws because they demanded a receipt from a gift it was not "her taste" i.e. with an expensive label she recognized and thus wanted to know the price. 

My i.e. shove your gifts up your A$$ and stop taking an accountant's inventory as to how much others spend on you versus how much you spend.

Don't ask me for a receipt of a gift I gave you, you are ALL warned. BTW, economy permitting I assure you I am not cheap.


----------



## Pbartender

wtf2012 said:


> My STBXW's narcissist alcoholic mother is the same way. She loves to let everyone know how much she spent on the kids. What is hilarious is the kids at 11, 7, and 5 already know that the only thing she is consistently good for is money.


That's thing, though... With the WWotMW, it seems to be less about price of the gifts, and more about the number and frequency of gifts. She likes giving lots of gifts and she likes giving them often... and if she's short on money, that just means giving lots of very cheap gifts very often. It also often means ignoring bills and other financial necessities so she can buy gifts instead.



2galsmom said:


> I could write volumes on dysfunctional gift giving but I will spare you all, now I say it makes the kids happy. They do not see the bull**** behind the gift or the games and it is a source of joy in their life and I will not take it away from them.


Oh, I know... and I won't either.

It's still a sore spot for me, though. During our marriage, in my fixer way, I was the one who was always responsible for paying all bills. And so, X always lots of spending cash, and I had very little. When it came to birthdays and holidays, I rarely spare money to buy gifts. X was usually the one who went out and bought gifts... It wasn't my money and I didn't get to help pick them out. Much the time, I didn't even know what the gift "we" were giving, until the recipient opened it.

Now, she's doing the same thing... the mortgage bill hasn't been paid... the utility bills are past due... she hasn't paid her half of the school lunches... or D13's cheerleading fees... or D13's violin rental...

And yet, she's has money to spend on taking her friends out to lunch... bar hopping... and more birthday gifts than D13 really needs.

It tweaks me.

It shouldn't.

But right now it does.

I'll get over it.


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> It's still a sore spot for me, though. During our marriage, in my fixer way, I was the one who was always responsible for paying all bills. And so, X always lots of spending cash, and I had very little. When it came to birthdays and holidays, I rarely spare money to buy gifts. X was usually the one who went out and bought gifts... It wasn't my money and I didn't get to help pick them out. Much the time, I didn't even know what the gift "we" were giving, until the recipient opened it.
> 
> Now, she's doing the same thing... the mortgage bill hasn't been paid... the utility bills are past due... she hasn't paid her half of the school lunches... or D13's cheerleading fees... or D13's violin rental...
> 
> And yet, she's has money to spend on taking her friends out to lunch... bar hopping... and more birthday gifts than D13 really needs.
> 
> It tweaks me.
> 
> It shouldn't.
> 
> But right now it does.
> 
> I'll get over it.


My past with Chinless was a little different in that I paid the bills and bought the gifts. I just had to spend a lot time trying to make it all work, because periodically, Chinless decided he simply _had_ to have some expensive gadget. Because I had hobbies that I bought supplies for (even though I then sold some of the things I made or gave them as gifts), I didn't feel I could tell him we couldn't afford whatever he _needed _this time. I just had to make it all work out. Which was tremendously stressful.

But now, our situations are quite similar. They have lived quite well since they started dating and up to the present, even though they've always cried poverty. He didn't even have money to buy one little box of candy DS was selling for band, and again I'll be buying the present for the upcoming party DS is going to. I assume I'll be buying his coat and boots again this year, too. 

I really have no choice but to get over it, too. But it does irk me when I have to say no to DS when he wants to do things, or I can't do things I want to do because I'm being responsible and they got to have the good times at least before they went broke. I'm living like I'm broke without the good times first.


----------



## zillard

I feel your frustration AP and PBar. I pay it all. No child support; nothin.

Well... X did buy a few outfits for school when she visited. 

But I made a deal - I get D7. So I still come out on top. Definitely.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> My past with Chinless was a little different in that I paid the bills and bought the gifts. I just had to spend a lot time trying to make it all work, because periodically, Chinless decided he simply _had_ to have some expensive gadget. Because I had hobbies that I bought supplies for (even though I then sold some of the things I made or gave them as gifts), I didn't feel I could tell him we couldn't afford whatever he _needed _this time. I just had to make it all work out. Which was tremendously stressful.


Heh... not so different, actually. Despite having most of our disposable income under her control, she often spent it all away. If she (or the kids, or me...) decided she wanted something else "fun", then it was up to me to "find a way" to pay for it. And being the co-dependent fixer I was, I always did find a way. I couldn't say no, without feeling guilty about it.

Now, she's still spending like I'm there to cover the bills and take care of the unfun responsibilities... but I'm not. Oh well.

On the lighter side of things...

Got to play some D&D last weekend.

I got back in touch with a couple of old friends I hadn't seen in years. They've decided to create a video game, and asked me to be their Content & Design Lead.

FYG stopped by the other evening. I cooked up some risotto and Bourbon shrimp from scratch, and she baked an apple pie. Tasty.

Last night was my first rehearsal with a community choir I just joined. Helluva fun. Looking forward to more of it.


----------



## Pbartender

zillard said:


> I feel your frustration AP and PBar. I pay it all. No child support; nothin.
> 
> Well... X did buy a few outfits for school when she visited.
> 
> But I made a deal - I get D7. So I still come out on top. Definitely.


I would have gladly made that same deal.


----------



## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> I got back in touch with a couple of old friends I hadn't seen in years. They've decided to create a video game, and *asked me to be their Content & Design Lead.*
> 
> Last night was my first rehearsal with a community choir I just joined. Helluva fun. Looking forward to more of it.


Um, that is awesome!  Kudos.

What is D&D?


----------



## angelpixie

Dungeons & Dragons.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Dungeons & Dragons.


Did you know Vin Diesel plays Dungeons and Dragons?

He has been for the last 20 years. He has a tattoo of his favorite D&D character's name. He wrote the introduction to the book _Thirty Years of Adventure: Celebrating Dungeons and Dragons._

And he introduced Dame Judy Dench to D&D and got her hooked on playing the game, too.

:smthumbup:


----------



## angelpixie

DS wants to start playing it.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> DS wants to start playing it.


There's worse things he could be doing... Like stealing beer from your fridge.

:rofl:


----------



## dscl

Pbartender said:


> Did you know Vin Diesel plays Dungeons and Dragons?
> 
> He has been for the last 20 years. He has a tattoo of his favorite D&D character's name. He wrote the introduction to the book _Thirty Years of Adventure: Celebrating Dungeons and Dragons._
> 
> And he introduced Dame Judy Dench to D&D and got her hooked on playing the game, too.
> 
> :smthumbup:


So Vin is nerd. 😄


----------



## Pbartender

Team Pbar touched base with me this morning to check in and see how things are going.

Amongst other news and notifications, he asked if the WWotMW was still pestering me to contribute to extra expenses for the kids that I'm not responsible for.

She hasn't... not since I delivered the first child support check at the beginning of the month.  But I did let him know that she's still avoiding her half of the shared expenses, and that she hasn't been adequately notifying me of her work schedule, thereby depriving me of parenting time I could be taking advantage of.

To that, he replied, "Do you want to take her to court over this? Probably not worth it, but it is an avenue for you."

And he's right. Right now, at least, it's probably not worth it. But it's a shovelful or two of the hole she's slowly digging herself deeper into. So, I told him...

Not yet.

The main issue currently is that without knowing her work schedule, I cannot exercise the Right of First refusal, which means I'm not getting as much time with the kids as I'd like. The money she currently owes for shared expenses only amounts to a little more than $100 or so, and while it would certainly be useful have that money on hand, it's a small consideration at the moment.

For now, I will continue to trying to handle it personally and documenting her refusals to (mainly via text message conversations). If it continues long enough that the documentation can guarantee success in court and ensure that she will be responsible for the court costs and lawyer's fees in accordance with the MSA, then we'll revisit it.

In the meantime... Time to make plans for a little birthday celebration for D13 this weekend.

:birthday:


----------



## angelpixie

Pbar, do you think she's purposely doing this just so you can't exercise First Refusal and spend more time with your kids? Or is she just being bratty and oppositionally defiant? The former seems a little too crafty for her, frankly.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Pbar, do you think she's purposely doing this just so you can't exercise First Refusal and spend more time with your kids? Or is she just being bratty and oppositionally defiant? The former seems a little too crafty for her, frankly.


I think it is her solution, using her typical avoidance techniques, to the fact that the settlement didn't turn out the way she wanted it to. I also think there may a little bit of revenge motivation in there, to punish me for not playing along.

So, she can't make me do the things she wants me to -- like pay full child support, pay for the kids' cellphones, and pay for their medical insurance, for example.

But she can not do the things she doesn't want to -- like pay her half of the shared expenses, send me a definitive work schedule, or allow me the extra time with the kids I'm entitled to -- even if MSA and JPA say she's supposed to.

Like so many situations we talk about here, it's all about control... She lost control of the situation months ago, but never realized it. She might not fully realize it even now, except subconsciously way in the back of her mind. The stability that I provided her life is gone. And so now, in order to make herself feel more secure, she's exercising control over whatever she can... even if she doesn't need to, even that control is only over something ultimately meaningless, and even if that control has no purpose other than pure opposition and therefore detrimental to everyone involved.

The fact that she has control over something... anything... makes her feel powerful again. Using that control in a way that affects me, no matter how insignificantly, makes her feel like she still has control over me.

And I think that, in a way, my continuous polite requests encourage her in that belief. That she believes those requests are proof that she's putting me through some sort of slow torture... That I will never push her harder on these things than with non-confrontational appeals... That eventually I will give up and let her have her way.

She apparently hasn't been paying attention, and has been mistaking my determined patience for compliance.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> I think it is her solution, using her typical avoidance techniques, to the fact that the settlement didn't turn out the way she wanted it to. I also think there may a little bit of revenge motivation in there, to punish me for not playing along.
> 
> So, she can't make me do the things she wants me to -- like pay full child support, pay for the kids' cellphones, and pay for their medical insurance, for example.
> 
> But she can not do the things she doesn't want to -- like pay her half of the shared expenses, send me a definitive work schedule, or allow me the extra time with the kids I'm entitled to -- even if MSA and JPA say she's supposed to.
> 
> Like so many situations we talk about here, it's all about control... She lost control of the situation months ago, but never realized it. She might not fully realize it even now, except subconsciously way in the back of her mind. The stability that I provided her life is gone. And so now, in order to make herself feel more secure, she's exercising control over whatever she can... even if she doesn't need to, even that control is only over something ultimately meaningless, and even if that control has no purpose other than pure opposition and therefore detrimental to everyone involved.
> 
> The fact that she has control over something... anything... makes her feel powerful again. Using that control in a way that affects me, no matter how insignificantly, makes her feel like she still has control over me.
> 
> And I think that, in a way, my continuous polite requests encourage her in that belief. That she believes those requests are proof that she's putting me through some sort of slow torture... That I will never push her harder on these things than with non-confrontational appeals... That eventually I will give up and let her have her way.
> 
> She apparently hasn't been paying attention, and has been mistaking my determined patience for compliance.


I can relate.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> I can relate.


I know.


----------



## catcalls

cant you deduct her share of expenses from the amount of child support you pay her?


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> What is First Refusal? What is a WWotMW?


"WWotMW" is my post-divorce nickname for my ex-wife. It stand for "Wicked Witch of the Midwest". An off-hand comment earlier in this thread about dropping a house on her inspired it. 

A Right of First Refusal officially gives a parent first dibs on time with the kids, if the other parent is scheduled for time with them but can't be there.

In my Joint Parenting Agreement, it looks like this:



> (6) Right of First Refusal. If either parent shall be unable to exercise parenting time with the children due to a work commitment of over three (3) hours, that parent shall offer the other parent a first right to care for and spend time with the children. The parties acknowledge that Mother’s work schedule generally requires her to work varied hours, so Mother agrees to provide to Father her work schedule as soon as it is posted. Father shall inform Mother of any changes in his work schedule as soon as he is aware of said changes.


The WWotMW hasn't been informing of her work schedule, and she hasn't been offering me time with the kids on the days she's scheduled with them, but working.



catcalls said:


> cant you deduct her share of expenses from the amount of child support you pay her?


No. I can't. The child support I pay is automatically deducted from my paycheck, and the county sends her a check on my behalf.

Yesterday morning, I sent her a text to confirm our weekend schedule next month. No reply yet.


----------



## Ceegee

You get that schedule yet?

How about the reimbursement?


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> You get that schedule yet?
> 
> How about the reimbursement?


A million comedians are out of work, and I get stuck with you.


----------



## angelpixie

Ceegee said:


> You get that schedule yet?
> 
> How about the reimbursement?





Pbartender said:


> A million comedians are out of work, and I get stuck with you.


----------



## Pbartender

Guess who got someone a kitten for her birthday...


----------



## Nucking Futs

Pbartender said:


> Guess who got someone a kitten for her birthday...


Well, your avatar doesn't look too happy so I'm going to guess WWOTMW.


----------



## angelpixie

Nucking Futs said:


> Well, your avatar doesn't look too happy so I'm going to guess WWOTMW.



I hope it's not like the one in YOUR avatar!!


----------



## 2galsmom

angelpixie said:


> I hope it's not like the one in YOUR avatar!!


Actually, I like the cat in Nucking Futs avatar. :rofl:


----------



## Nucking Futs

angelpixie said:


> I hope it's not like the one in YOUR avatar!!


:scratchhead: I don't get it. My avatar is a picture of me showing off my new AK..


----------



## Pbartender




----------



## Pbartender

Nucking Futs said:


> Well, your avatar doesn't look too happy so I'm going to guess WWOTMW.


Got it in one.

We used to have a great cat. He died a year ago. Ever since, D13 had been pestering me for a new cat. I kept telling her that we weren't going to get one any time soon. We simply couldn't afford one.

When I moved into the new apartment, she tried to convince me again. But the place has brand new carpeting... the landlady said no pets for now. Even if she'd said yes, the rent and security deposit would have gone up. As much as I love pets, I don't need the extra expense, the extra mess, or the extra responsibility right now.

Nope... This is all WWotMW... Another play right out of the Over-Compensating Divorced Parent's Handbook.

Giant stuffed animals and a kitten? It's almost stereotypically ludicrous.


----------



## Ceegee

That's nucking futs.


----------



## angelpixie

OK, I'm not a cat person at all, but I have to admit, that is an adorable little kitteh.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> OK, I'm not a cat person at all, but I have to admit, that is an adorable little kitteh.


I can't argue with that. I've got nothing against the cat... yet.


----------



## 2galsmom

The kitten is cute! I promised the 2gals a cat but it is an extra $500 deposit for the cat and some other expense for our apartment. Once I heard $500 I stopped listening.

Just look at it as D13 got a cute kitten and will be happy, she will not love you any less or her mother any more for it.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

If you're lucky, it will pee all over WWotMW's carpets


----------



## tom67

ThreeStrikes said:


> If you're lucky, it will pee all over WWotMW's carpets


Too bad kittens become cats


----------



## Paradise

This all sounds very familiar to me...Yep...Our exes must be long lost twins or something.


----------



## Ceegee

Fish are better.


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> Just look at it as D13 got a cute kitten and will be happy, she will not love you any less or her mother any more for it.


I'm not really concerned about that.

I'm just a bit amazed at how cliched she's become.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> I'm not really concerned about that.
> 
> It's just rather amazing how cliched she's become.


No it's not.


----------



## wtf2012

ThreeStrikes said:


> If you're lucky, it will pee all over WWotMW's carpets


Like boxes of sh1t in your house? Get a cat!


----------



## Pbartender

Okay, I seem to be getting into the habit of sending the WWotMW another message about every two weeks, when S15's lunch money runs out yet again. This week, I remind her:

"S15 ran out of lunch today. I deposited another $25 for him."

"Currently, you owe $131.35 for shared expenses... $38.85 for S15's lunches, $69.50 for cheerleading, and $23.00 for two months' violin rental."

"Also, you have not yet supplied a complete or useful work schedule. Without it, I cannot exercise my Right of First Refusal, and you are limiting my parenting time."

"I will expect a check for $131.35 and your complete work schedule by Monday, October 7th. If this continues to be an issue, I will consult will my lawyer about havingthe MSA and JPA enforced."

Later, she replied:

"Since you owe me 234 for the children's expenses that I have covered over the last two months, I will not be giving you a check for 131... (140 for the August and September cell phone bill, 75 for medical coverage, and 20 for D14's glee club wardrobe fees). I have repeatedly informed you of my work schedule - I am off Wednesday and Saturday. On Sunday I work until 11:30."

:slap:

In other words... "I am refusing to pay the court-ordered expenses that I agreed to pay under oath in front of a judge, unless you pay for all these other expenses that are not your responsibility."

:redcard:

Time to talk to Team Pbar, I think... I didn't expect this quite so soon. That might enough right there.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Okay, I seem to be getting into the habit of sending the WWotMW another message about every two weeks, when S15's lunch money runs out yet again. This week, I remind her:
> 
> "S15 ran out of lunch today. I deposited another $25 for him."
> 
> "Currently, you owe $131.35 for shared expenses... $38.85 for S15's lunches, $69.50 for cheerleading, and $23.00 for two months' violin rental."
> 
> "Also, you have not yet supplied a complete or useful work schedule. Without it, I cannot exercise my Right of First Refusal, and you are limiting my parenting time."
> 
> "I will expect a check for $131.35 and your complete work schedule by Monday, October 7th. If this continues to be an issue, I will consult will my lawyer about havingthe MSA and JPA enforced."
> 
> Later, she replied:
> 
> "Since you owe me 234 for the children's expenses that I have covered over the last two months, I will not be giving you a check for 131... (140 for the August and September cell phone bill, 75 for medical coverage, and 20 for D14's glee club wardrobe fees). I have repeatedly informed you of my work schedule - I am off Wednesday and Saturday. On Sunday I work until 11:30."
> 
> :slap:
> 
> In other words... "I am refusing to pay the court-ordered expenses that I agreed to pay under oath in front of a judge, unless you pay for all these other expenses that are not your responsibility."
> 
> :redcard:
> 
> Time to talk to Team Pbar, I think... I didn't expect this quite so soon. That might enough right there.


I see no other choice.

Have you reminded her that you are not obligated to pay those expenses?


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> I see no other choice.
> 
> Have you reminded her that you are not obligated to pay those expenses?


Yep.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Yep.


The entitlement blinds them to the words in the decree. 

Mine said, "I don't agree with this. It needs to change" after the decree was written. 

Take me to court Crazy Town.


----------



## 2galsmom

What a nightmare. I am sorry this is happening to you. Can we douse her with a bucket of water?

Most lunch programs have lunch tickets. No cash whenever possible to the WWotMW, she will not take care of the munchkins. Perhaps you can buy the lunch tickets in advance and hand the tickets to your child. Often, you get a break on the deal like one lunch free or something like that.

I would pay people directly, keep the receipts for court and eliminate the WWoftMW entirely. You are obligated to provide xzy services and amenities for the children and not to give her cash which she can take in an emergency and have her eyebrows done (It happens, do you want women with poor grooming habits? I think not.) A judge is not going to insist you to pay her cash! 

BTW Glinda the Good had the superior wardrobe, and I love her hat!

Good luck in court crazy town! Crazy town never fares well in court.


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> What a nightmare. I am sorry this is happening to you. Can we douse her with a bucket of water?
> 
> Most lunch programs have lunch tickets. No cash whenever possible to the WWotMW, she will not take care of the munchkins. Perhaps you can buy the lunch tickets in advance and hand the tickets to your child. Often, you get a break on the deal like one lunch free or something like that.


In our school district, the kids' student IDs work like debit cards for lunches. You can deposit money into the cards by logging into an account website online. The website keeps a record of all transactions... How much is deposited when and from what bank account, and also what food is ordered when and how much it cost.

When it comes to the kids expenses, I always pay them directly myself, whenever possible.


----------



## vi_bride04

Wow. And its in writing/email form??????

She needs more than luck in court. She is blatently stating she will not pay court ordered monies. 

Wow.....

Dumb dee dumb dumb  lol


----------



## Pbartender

vi_bride04 said:


> Wow. And its in writing/email form??????
> 
> She needs more than luck in court. She is blatently stating she will not pay court ordered monies.


Yep. Exactly.

I expected something like this would happen sooner or later. I just didn't think it would happen quite so soon or quite so blatantly.


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



Pbartender said:


> Yep. Exactly.
> 
> I expected something like this would happen sooner or later. I just didn't think it would happen quite so soon or quite so blatantly.


Nothing should surprise you at this point


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Yep. Exactly.
> 
> I expected something like this would happen sooner or later. I just didn't think it would happen quite so soon or quite so blatantly.


Shooting holes in both feet.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Yep. File contempt charges. She will have to pay you what she owes you, your legal fees, and the contempt fine.


Better for you if she learns her lesson now. And the court gets to be the Daddy! Woohoo


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



ThreeStrikes said:


> Yep. File contempt charges. She will have to pay you what she owes you, your legal fees, and the contempt fine.
> 
> 
> Better for you if she learns her lesson now. And the court gets to be the Daddy! Woohoo


Know if there are any other consequences for contempt besides the $$$ ? Anything on public/permanent record?


----------



## Pbartender

In Illinois...



> D. *Civil contempt defined.* A contumacious act constitutes a civil contempt if:
> 
> 1. The act consists of the failure to obey a court order or judgment; and
> 
> 2. Coercive rather than punitive sanctions are sought to compel compliance with the order or judgment.
> 
> a. *Petition for adjudication.* A civil contempt proceeding shall be initiated by the filing of a petition for adjudication of civil contempt unless the act is committed in the presence of the Court. The petition shall be verified and set forth with particularity that portion of the court order that is alleged to have been violated and the nature of the violation. If the Court finds that the petition sets forth allegations which support the charge, it shall set the matter for hearing and order that notice be given to the respondent.
> 
> b. *Notice.* Notice of the hearing and a copy of the petition shall be served on the respondent and made of record in the manner specified in Paragraph C.2 of this rule. The provision of Part 15.01 of these rules shall apply to this notice. If, after notice, the respondent fails to appear, the Court may order a body attachment to issue and set bail.
> 
> c. *Response/burden of proof.* No later three (3) days prior to the hearing, the respondent may file a written answer denying, with specificity, any of the allegations, together with any affirmative defenses. Subsequent written or oral denials and affirmative defenses may be made only with leave of Court. Those allegations of the petition not specifically denied may be deemed admitted, and the remaining allegations in issue shall be proven by a preponderance of the evidence. If the basis of the charge of civil contempt is the failure of the respondent to make court ordered payments to the Clerk of the Court, the records of the Clerk shall be prima facie evidence of the amount paid and disbursed by the Clerk.
> 
> d. *Method of hearing.* Civil contempt proceedings shall be tried before the Court without a jury.
> 
> e. *Sanctions.* If the Court finds the respondent in civil contempt, it may continue the matter for a reasonable time before the imposition of sanctions or; it may impose sanctions forthwith. Prior to the imposition of sanctions, the contemnor shall have the right to make a statement in mitigation. Sanctions may include a continuing fine and/or incarceration in a penal institution other than a penitentiary. The sanctions imposed shall remain in full force and effect until the respondent purges himself of contempt or is otherwise discharged by due process of law. The Court may assess reasonable costs and attorney’s fees against the contemnor.
> 
> f. *Written order required.* Upon an adjudication of civil contempt, a written judgment order shall be entered specifying the contumacious conduct, the sanction imposed, and the means by which the respondent may purge himself. A copy of the judgment shall be provided to the contemnor.
> 
> g. *Appeal.* An appeal from a judgment a civil contempt may be taken as in civil cases. Upon filing a notice of appeal, the Court may fix bond and may stay the execution of any sanction imposed pending the disposition of the appeal.​


----------



## Pbartender

Team Pbar says I'm on the right track...

Essentially told me to make sure I pay my half of the Glee Club fee (which I'd be happy to, except that I didn't know about until now), but that I'm not responsible for the rest. He told me to remind her to RTFMSA, but that he recommends waiting another month or two before taking her back to court.

What I've got is good, but more of it would be better.

He said that there's nothing wrong if she has a set work schedule (and I agree with that), but that if I need to, I could do some careful snooping to find out when she is and isn't working... Just find an excuse to drive by the house or her store if I think she's at work.

"Do not do this often, but it does not hurt to check once or twice."


----------



## Pbartender

On the other side of things...

Over the weekend D14, S15 and I took the train into the City and met up with my niece at her dorm. We all had Chicago-style hot dogs for lunch in the park, and then spent the afternoon at the Field Museum.

We bought a bunch of designer duck tape as a birthday present for D14... It's what she asked for. She likes to do crafts with it. And when I asked her what she wanted for her special birthday dinner, she replied: "Nugget. Biscuit. Nugget in a biscuit. Yum! Yum! Gimme!"

And so...










:smthumbup:

Yesterday I went back for my second rehearsal with my new choir. I'm having a great time with it. Ridiculously friendly people. Great singers. Fantastic director. From what she's posted about it, it reminds me of Angelpixie's contra class... except with singing, instead of dancing. I think I'm going to stick with them.

I'd forgotten how great it feels to sing well with a good choir.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> On the other side of things...
> 
> Over the weekend D14, S15 and I took the train into the City and met up with my niece at her dorm. We all had Chicago-style hot dogs for lunch in the park, and then spent the afternoon at the Field Museum.
> 
> We bought a bunch of designer duck tape as a birthday present for D14... It's what she asked for. She likes to do crafts with it. And when I asked her what she wanted for her special birthday dinner, she replied: "Nugget. Biscuit. Nugget in a biscuit. Yum! Yum! Gimme!"
> 
> And so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> Yesterday I went back for my second rehearsal with my new choir. I'm having a great time with it. Ridiculously friendly people. Great singers. Fantastic director. From what she's posted about it, it reminds me of Angelpixie's contra class... except with singing, instead of dancing. I think I'm going to stick with them.
> 
> I'd forgotten how great it feels to sing well with a good choir.


I've listened to hours and hours of that song with the kids. 

It becomes addicting.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> I've listened to hours and hours of that song with the kids.
> 
> It becomes addicting.


Makes for a delicious dinner, too.

Yum. Yum. Gimme.

Oh, look! Leftovers! :toast:


----------



## angelpixie

That. Looks. Yummy. (FedEx? )


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> That. Looks. Yummy. (FedEx? )


Hrm... I just checked the FedEx website... Apparently they won't ship a box big enough to fit me inside.

It might be easier if I just drove or got a plane ticket.


----------



## angelpixie

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Jellybeans

Then you have to ship your way over to me so you can make the pancakes.


----------



## angelpixie

Gives a new meaning to The Galloping Gourmet, eh?


----------



## Jellybeans

Yes!


----------



## Pbartender

Just received notice that the mortgage is 30 days past due.

No surprise.


----------



## Conrad

Pbartender said:


> Just received notice that the mortgage is 30 days past due.
> 
> No surprise.


Just the beginning.

I know you said you're prepared for foreclosure.

Good luck.


----------



## Pluto2

Yikes. You were right. I'm sorry. Anyway this will help the contempt motion?


----------



## tom67

Pbartender said:


> Just received notice that the mortgage is 30 days past due.
> 
> No surprise.


Talk about crash and burn.


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



Pbartender said:


> Just received notice that the mortgage is 30 days past due.
> 
> No surprise.


Even if its not a surprise it is....lol

Good luck...anything about consequences of being 30 says late in the JOD? That's how I'm getting contempt on my ex cuz he didn't comply with trying to protect my credit to the best of his ability....or work with me on a short sale...


----------



## Pbartender

vi_bride04 said:


> Good luck...anything about consequences of being 30 says late in the JOD?


Nothing that specific, but...



> 8.4	Except as otherwise stated in this Agreement, Wife shall be responsible for and shall pay any indebtedness related to any of the property which she retains or receives, and shall save, defend, and hold Husband harmless with respect to the same. This specifically includes any debt related to the vehicle in which the Wife obtains and the outstanding mortgage on the parties’ former marital residence, and all utilities related to the former marital residence, any maintenance and upkeep of the former marital residence and all real estate taxes and assessments thereon.


...should cover it.

At this point, it's another brick in the wall.


----------



## angelpixie

That sounds good from the standpoint of the JOD, but what does your bank say? You're still on the mortgage, right?


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> That sounds good from the standpoint of the JOD, but what does your bank say? You're still on the mortgage, right?





2galsmom said:


> I find it hard to believe you stayed on the mortgage with her Pbartender.


Okay... one more time... all together, now...

*I cannot take my own name off the mortgage. She must refinance or assume the mortgage.*



2galsmom said:


> She would not give up the house? I have seen this before. It never ends well and she will be like the WWoftE where the house falls on her and well, you know the rest.


Up until about a week before the divorce was final, the deal was that I'd keep the house and she'd move out. But...

After more than a year of living in the spare room in the basement, she had not saved up any money nor prepared in any way to move out... She'd spent the whole time partying with her boyfriends and toxic friends.

At the last moment, she blamed her irresponsibility on me... "Pbar has made it financially impossible for me to move out." ...and asked if she could keep the house. In exchange, she offered to let me keep my entire retirement fund.

It was a very good deal for me, and I was willing to accept the chances that she'd mess up the mortgage as "acceptable losses". I can survive a hit to my credit rating.


----------



## angelpixie

It just never fails to tick me off how many BS' end up getting screwed (and not in a good way) due to the WS' irresponsibility regarding the mortgage on the marital home. I thank my lucky stars every day that I would have been able to buy Chinless out if he hadn't been able to buy me out. I didn't want the marital home, but I would have taken it just to no longer be on the mortgage with him.


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> So again, why is your name on the mortgage? :scratchhead:
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> I skim quickly sorry...


Well, if I seemed snappish about it, that's only because I was.

It's one of those questions that well-meaning people keep asking over and over and over again... And while I fully understand that they are trying to be helpful, it only really serves to rub my nose in a problem that I have very little real control over.

I think you'll understand if that makes me a little grouchy.

_"While you're at it, why don't you give me a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it?"_ *- Miracle Max*



2galsmom said:


> What a idiot she is. Hope you got that retirement fund response in writing.


Does the Marriage Settlement Agreement count?


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



angelpixie said:


> It just never fails to tick me off how many BS' end up getting screwed (and not in a good way) due to the WS' irresponsibility regarding the mortgage on the marital home. I thank my lucky stars every day that I would have been able to buy Chinless out if he hadn't been able to buy me out. I didn't want the marital home, but I would have taken it just to no longer be on the mortgage with him.


I'm so jealous of you...!


----------



## angelpixie

Well, the only way it worked for me was because he gutted 1/2 my retirement account, and had to use that money to buy out the mortgage. So he used my money to buy my house from me. :scratchhead: I have mixed emotions. I'm older than he is, and now have 1/2 of a crappy retirement savings account. But I have a house for DS and me, which was important to me, because I really wanted to stop renting. It's all a shell game, really.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> It's all a shell game, really.


Quite.

The original plan was to empty out my retirement and use that to pay off all the marital debts (mostly in my name, because she has terrible credit). I would have kept the house and she would have moved out. It would have been a good deal, because I'd have been debt free, except for the mortgage.

But... She didn't save anything for moving out, and the rules for my retirement fund would have spread the payout over 10 annual payments. I would have been okay with that, but she was banking on the big payout to finance moving into a new place.

So, I instead kept my retirement (which will be better in the long term), and moved into a rental townhouse (which is far, far cheaper on rent, bills, utilities and maintenance). With the cheaper living expenses, I can aggressively pay off my debts... It'll take a little longer, but I should have it done within 2-3 years.

I'll get my debts paid off, start saving and investing, and by the time I'm ready to buy a house again years from now my credit score will be back to excellent, no matter what she does to it now... Hell, it's not unlikely I'll have enough saved and invested to just buy a house straight up with cash.


----------



## Ceegee

2galsmom said:


> He bought a house across the street from you.
> 
> I would move to Guam.
> 
> Angelpixie you are the second woman I know who was the breadwinner, got a divorce and then the ex moved as close by as he could get.
> 
> 
> Men. Let the women go.
> 
> Well Pbartender it sounds like you have everything under control! Bravo!


Women stop being so vain. 

I moved about 2 miles from my X. Not to be close to her but to be close to my kids.


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> Well Pbartender it sounds like you have everything under control! Bravo!


No, not everything... It would be foolish to think I can have everything under control.

The greater part of my plan is realizing that things out of my control _will_ happen, and then being as flexible and as prepared as I can be to make the best of unexpected circumstances.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> Women stop being so vain.
> 
> I moved about 2 miles from my X. Not to be close to her but to be close to my kids.


My move was less than a mile... It put me right across the street from the high school, and within walking distance of X's house. Likewise, it was more for the comfort and convenience of the kids than anyone else.


----------



## Ceegee

2galsmom said:


> The man I know did not do it to be close to the kids Ceegee. He did it to terrorize her and attempt to maintain control. And we have the automobile, you know the ones that some of you love with giant gas tanks! It is not healthy to live close unless you are one of the blessed with a fabulous relationship with the ex's and per your report Mr. Ceegee you do not. That is just my opinion.


Then edit your previous post to say "Man, let your woman go."

I do not have a fabulous relationship with my X but I do have a fantastic relationship with , and a responsibility to, my kids. 

My gas tank will take me 400 miles. That doesn't mean I'm willing to be 5 hours away from my kids.


----------



## angelpixie

He actually did get the marital home, 2gals, after raiding my retirement account to buy it from me. That house was on the outskirts of town, not convenient to anything, and with a lousy school. When I told him I was done fighting for our 'marriage,' it was a race to see who would find a rental first. I found one (was more motivated), near one of the 2 best elementary schools in town. After the D, and him buying me out, I bought a house less than 3/4 miles from the middle school DS is in now. He's still on the outskirts of town (and he didn't want to live there, either, but he also didn't think he'd qualify to buy anything else). As it turned out, I'm as happy as I can be with it. I'm the primary parent as far as the school is concerned, it's biking distance from my job, walking distance to a grocery and the post office, and my Subaru repair guy is at the end of my block, lol. He's free to live his miserable life on the dreary outskirts of town in a house he didn't want, with his posGF. Suits his victim personality.


----------



## Pbartender

And I've decided to mentally lay off the WWotMW's habitual present buying. As much as the situation with the mortgage and the shared expenses irks me, aside from that, her money is hers to spend as she likes. She's trying to put extra effort into showing her love to the kids through gift giving. I don't agree with it, but that's the way she is.

In a certain way, I have to recognize that I do the same thing through quality time and homemade comfort food. for example:

The kids and I had a good time with the kids over the weekend...

Took D14 to the barbershop to get her hair layered, and then went home and dyed it purple. Looks great!

:fro:

Had a big nerf gun war with D14, S15 and a pile of neighborhood kids... I won.

:2gunsfiring_v1:

The three of us played day-long board game tournament at home... I won.

:bringiton:

We went to the park, and the kids hung out with friends while I ran around the track. I made it through a 1 mile lap without slowing down... I'm starting to get my legs back. After, we walked over to the nearby Dairy Queen and the kids treated me to an ice cream cone as a reward.

:smthumbup:

And then... Homemade biscuits and gravy. Weisswurst, spaetzle, and asparagus with cheesy-cream sauce. Pancakes and bacon. And chili-cheese tots.

Along with beer for me and cider for the kids, it was like a Do-It-Yourself Oktoberfest.

:toast:


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> Had a big nerf gun war with D14, S15 and a pile of neighborhood kids... * I won.*
> 
> :2gunsfiring_v1:
> 
> The three of us played day-long board game tournament at home... * I won.*
> 
> :bringiton:


Good to see you're not one of those people who keeps score. :rofl:


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Good to see you're not one of those people who keeps score. :rofl:


You don't need to keep score when they run away and surrender.

:allhail:


----------



## ThreeStrikes

*What is best in life?" "To crush your enemies -- See them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!"*

-Conan the Barbarian (or Genghis Khan, take your pick)


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> And I've decided to mentally lay off the WWotMW's habitual present buying. As much as the situation with the mortgage and the shared expenses irks me, aside from that, her money is hers to spend as she likes. She's trying to put extra effort into showing her love to the kids through gift giving. I don't agree with it, but that's the way she is.
> 
> In a certain way, I have to recognize that I do the same thing through quality time and homemade comfort food. for example:
> 
> The kids and I had a good time with the kids over the weekend...
> 
> Took D14 to the barbershop to get her hair layered, and then went home and dyed it purple. Looks great!
> 
> :fro:
> 
> Had a big nerf gun war with D14, S15 and a pile of neighborhood kids... I won.
> 
> :2gunsfiring_v1:
> 
> The three of us played day-long board game tournament at home... I won.
> 
> :bringiton:
> 
> We went to the park, and the kids hung out with friends while I ran around the track. I made it through a 1 mile lap without slowing down... I'm starting to get my legs back. After, we walked over to the nearby Dairy Queen and the kids treated me to an ice cream cone as a reward.
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> And then... Homemade biscuits and gravy. Weisswurst, spaetzle, and asparagus with cheesy-cream sauce. Pancakes and bacon. And chili-cheese tots.
> 
> Along with beer for me and cider for the kids, it was like a Do-It-Yourself Oktoberfest.
> 
> :toast:


You won the nerf-gun war.

You won the board game tournament.

You had them buy you an ice cream cone.

You get beer while they get cider.

So selfish PB...:awink:


----------



## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> The three of us played day-long board game tournament at home... I won.
> 
> :bringiton:
> 
> 
> 
> And then... Homemade biscuits and gravy. Weisswurst, spaetzle, and asparagus with cheesy-cream sauce. Pancakes and bacon. And chili-cheese tots.
> 
> Along with beer for me and cider for the kids, it was like a Do-It-Yourself Oktoberfest.
> 
> :toast:


Haha. Good one!


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> You won the nerf-gun war.
> 
> You won the board game tournament.


To give them credit, they all ganged up on me and gave me a helluva run for my money. 

It was a bit touch and go for a while, there.



Ceegee said:


> You had them buy you an ice cream cone.
> 
> You get beer while they get cider.
> 
> So selfish PB...:awink:


Hey, I made them chili-cheese tots... That's a pretty good trade.


----------



## Jellybeans

That is a good trade. It sounds like you had a blast and that is so sweet that they treated you to an ice cream.


----------



## Pbartender

Last night, we had an early choir rehearsal, followed by a meet & greet for the new people like me. There was a bit of a discussion about possible trips for the choir for next year...

The director talked about taking the choir on a trip down to St. Louis to put on a few shows and... sing the national anthem at a Cardinals game.


----------



## Jellybeans

So, are you a falsetto? Soprano? 

St. Louis would be fun I bet!!!


----------



## angelpixie

Jellybeans said:


> So, are you a falsetto? Soprano?


Yeah, that's what I'm imagining, too. A Barry Gibb-type, perhaps? 


While trying to find a suitable compilation of falsetto clips with which to illustrate this post, instead I found this:

Life On Mars - Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppet Theatre - YouTube

I loved the original show, and I _never_ saw it being recreated like this. :rofl:


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> So, are you a falsetto? Soprano?


Not normally... but, yes, I can. My can sing just about anything from middle bass to middle soprano. Though, I'm most comfortable singing high tenor to low alto.

I've been in school choirs, church choirs, concert choirs, a capella groups, madrigals, several musicals, and a barbershop quartet.

Several years ago, I just kind of... stopped. Didn't really get back into it until just now. I'd forgotten how good I was at it, and how much I enjoyed it.



angelpixie said:


> Yeah, that's what I'm imagining, too. A Barry Gibb-type, perhaps?


One of these days I need to find dance instructor who's willing to teach disco.


----------



## Ceegee

Post some audio PB.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> Post some audio PB.


Requests?


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> Requests?



Well, since you're the one who first mentioned it, I'm thinking there's a desire, deep in your subconscious, to let it all out with this one, Hmmm?

Saturday Night Fever - John Travolta - Bee Gees - YouTube


ETA: White suit not required. But it would definitely get you extra style points.


----------



## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> Requests?


"Billy Jean...is not my lover..." Michael Jackson!


----------



## angelpixie

Jellybeans said:


> "Billy Jean...is not my lover..." Michael Jackson!


Well, then he needs to moonwalk. :smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

No, no Miley Cyrus! She is not cool enough for Pbar. She tries too hard and Pbar is way better than twerking. 2gals, you'll have to figure out another act for him to perform with as his manager!


----------



## Jellybeans

All right, well then I am sold.


----------



## angelpixie

How do Jelly and I get in on this?


----------



## Jellybeans

Well, I will do the costumes for Pbartender and you can set up his venues! 2gals will manage the whole thing!

Poor Pbar is going to return to his thread to find out an entire business plan has been mapped out for him.


----------



## Pbartender

2galsmom said:


> I don't know how I feel about that one, I mean I am seeing leather asymmetrical jackets, gelled hair, uni-gloves, gelled hair on fire à la Pepsi commercial. He might upstage the whole choir and then what?
> 
> Wait, THEN we book him on SNL twerking with Miley Cyrus! I will be his manager I will only take 56% of all his earnings. I like this . . .





Jellybeans said:


> No, no Miley Cyrus! She is not cool enough for Pbar. She tries too hard and Pbar is way better than twerking. 2gals, you'll have to figure out another act for him to perform with as his manager!


2Gals, you're fired.

JB, you're hired.


----------



## Jellybeans

Hee hee! But it WAS 2gals' idea so she should be part of it after all.

Pbartender..you can pay me pancakes.


----------



## Ceegee

A man, his talent and the women trying to profit from it.

Typical.


----------



## Jellybeans

If you don't have anything nice to say... Ceegee...

Don't be a hater... be a congratulator!


----------



## Ceegee

Jellybeans said:


> If you don't have anything nice to say... Ceegee...
> 
> Don't be a hater... be a congratulator!


Give me a cut and I'll congratulate.


----------



## angelpixie

Ceegee said:


> Give me a cut and I'll congratulate.



Hrrmmm...

So after SNL, what should I book next? Carnegie Hall? A special on cable?

He needs back-up singers. The Pbaritas?


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> Hee hee! But it WAS 2gals' idea so she should be part of it after all.


She can be a part of twerking with Miley Cyrus all she wants... I won't.



Oh, and for the record... I _can_ moonwalk, and I _do_ own a white suit.










Too bad it doesn't fit anymore.


----------



## angelpixie

Stylin' :smthumbup:


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> Oh, and for the record... I _can_ moonwalk, and I _do_ own a white suit.


Well, I think that's enough talent to warrant a cable special then. I'll get right on that.


----------



## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> She can be a part of twerking with Miley Cyrus all she wants... I won't.


:rofl:

Thanks goodness. Miley has twerked enough for a decade. Wish she'd stick that tongue back in her mouth, too. Something is wrong with that chick.


----------



## Ceegee

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Thanks goodness. Miley has twerked enough for a decade. Wish she'd stick that tongue back in her mouth, too. Something is wrong with that chick.


Billy Ray didn't raise no idiot.


----------



## Jellybeans

You sure about that?


----------



## angelpixie

I was hoping he was just being sarcastic.


----------



## Ceegee

While everyone's making fun of her she's laughing all the way to the bank. 

Do you think SNL invited her just to make fun of her?

She's no fool.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> She's no fool.


For cashing out her self-respect and dignity?

All joking aside, right now mine is far too valuable a commodity to sell it off. I'd rather hang on to it a while and let it build interest.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> For cashing out her self-respect and dignity?
> 
> All joking aside, right now mine is far too valuable a commodity to sell it off. I'd rather hang on to it a while and let it build interest.


I agree PB. 

But no ones offering me millions of dollars to twerk and stick my tongue out either. 

Entertainers make the decision to do this everyday. Maybe not barbershop quartet members but others do.

Are you guys really going to make me publicly defend Miley Cyrus?


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Stylin' :smthumbup:


You know... Come to think of it...

That picture represents the beginning of the end. 

When it was taken about a year and a half ago, I was 50 pounds heavier, I was mostly unhappy and didn't realize it, I wasn't getting along terribly well with my kids, I'd given up all my hobbies, I wasn't as focused or productive at work as I should have been, and without realizing it yet I had all but given up on my marriage.

I was convinced that I was slowly going crazy if I wasn't already, that everything wrong with my family and marriage was my fault, that I was the only one who could solve these problems, that it was my _responsibility_ to solve them, but also that nothing I ever did was right or was good enough to fix them.

I was miserable, and trying so very hard to pretend that I wasn't so as not to make things worse than they already were.

That was the night that X and I went to her company's Christmas party -- the last "date" we ever had. There, I overheard some of her work friends gossiping about how one of her coworkers bragged about sexting her. Someone snapped this picture of me not long after that.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> I agree PB.
> 
> But no ones offering me millions of dollars to twerk and stick my tongue out either.
> 
> Entertainers make the decision to do this everyday. Maybe not barbershop quartet members but others do.
> 
> Are you guys really going to make me publicly defend Miley Cyrus?


We're not making you do anything.

If Miley Cyrus wants to make herself rich by acting like an idiot in front of an international audience, that's her decision.

But no one will ever respect her for it... Not even her.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> We're not making you do anything.
> 
> If Miley Cyrus wants to make herself rich by acting like an idiot in front of an international audience, that's her decision.
> 
> But no one will ever respect her for it... Not even her.


I raise the white flag. You win. 

(note to self: never defend Miley Cyrus again)

:toast:


----------



## angelpixie

2galsmom said:


> When you hear rumors that Pbartender is a diva and demands that his dressing room be stocked with organic lederhosen as well as Belgian chocolates and forbids the decor to have any jewel tone upholstery - well I did not start those.


 This can't be true!  How will I possibly get bookings with these riders!!


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> You know... Come to think of it...
> 
> That picture represents the beginning of the end.
> 
> When it was taken about a year and a half ago, I was 50 pounds heavier, I was mostly unhappy and didn't realize it, I wasn't getting along terribly well with my kids, I'd given up all my hobbies, I wasn't as focused or productive at work as I should have been, and without realizing it yet I had all but given up on my marriage.
> 
> I was convinced that I was slowly going crazy if I wasn't already, that everything wrong with my family and marriage was my fault, that I was the only one who could solve these problems, that it was my _responsibility_ to solve them, but also that nothing I ever did was right or was good enough to fix them.
> 
> I was miserable, and trying so very hard to pretend that I wasn't so as not to make things worse than they already were.
> 
> That was the night that X and I went to her company's Christmas party -- the last "date" we ever had. There, I overheard some of her work friends gossiping about how one of her coworkers bragged about sexting her. Someone snapped this picture of me not long after that.


So this is your "Before" pic, Pbar? Now that you've lost weight and are back on track, doing better with your kids, in your own place, and doing things you like to do, you should post an "After" pic, too. TAMers need as much inspiration as they can get.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> So this is your "Before" pic, Pbar? Now that you've lost weight and are back on track, doing better with your kids, in your own place, and doing things you like to do, you should post an "After" pic, too. TAMers need as much inspiration as they can get.


This past July, in the midst of the Temporary Support fiasco...










A month and a half ago, leaving the courthouse for the last time...


----------



## angelpixie

Well, there you go.


----------



## Pbartender

Yep... Here I go. :smthumbup:

Since the divorce almost two months ago, the kids hadn't been phoning or texting me much on their days with X, except for informational purposes. No big deal, we've had a tendency to catch up by talking around the dinner table in the evenings. In the last couple of weeks, though, D14 has started texting me now and again just to say "Hi" and to tell me about cool stuff she's doing. That didn't surprise me... She's a very social girl. What caught me a little off guard was when S15 texted me last night to show off some new LEGO creations he made. With his autism, it's not the sort of thing he usually does. It really makes my day to hear from them.

D14 is still grumbling about the custody schedule... She complained to me that she wants to ask X about it, but whenever she tries to X is asleep, or too busy doing something else to listen to her, or off somewhere hanging out with her friends.

The Mutual Friend Network reports that the WWotMW is hosting a "housewarming" party this Friday to celebrate her new roommate moving in... Sources say that the only invitees attending the party will be X, Lucky, Toxic Avenger (if she can get off work) and the New Roommate.

She's still not paying her half of the shared expenses. She's still ignoring my requests for to do so. I'm still keeping track of the steadily growing total.

Next weekend, the kids and I are planning on heading over to an all-day Dungeons and Dragons mini-convention type of event with a store full of gamer geeks I know.

The weekend after, my Momma Pbar's coming down from Minnesota for a visit... My Biggest Sis is moving to Illinois from Ohio at the end of the month, and is being installed as the new pastor of a church only two hours' drive away from me. Momma Pbar and I are going to drive down for the ceremony. It'll be nice to have her close enough to visit regularly.


----------



## Pbartender

While talking with D14 last night...

*D14:* Oh, by the way... Mom is taking us to a corn maze on Saturday, and we need to leave really early. She wants you to drop us off by 7 am.

*Pbar:* She hasn't mentioned it to me.

*D14:* She wanted to me let you know.

*Pbar:* I understand that and thank you for telling me, but it's not your job. If X has something she needs to tell me, then she needs to tell me herself. I'll drop you guys off at 8 as usual.

*D14:* Okay.

This again.



MSA said:


> The children shall not be used to deliver support payments, nor shall the children be used as messengers between the parties. The parties shall cooperate directly with one another. Specifically, the parents shall not communicate with each other through the children with regard to changes in the parenting time schedule. Any problems that arise between the parties shall not be discussed with the children or in their presence. All communications concerning the children shall be between the Father and the Mother directly.


:banghead:

On the other hand, a couple of old college friends gave me a free ticket to go watch a hockey game tomorrow.

:smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

Haha Love the differences in those pics... mid-divorce, and post-divorce. What a difference!


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> This past July, in the midst of the Temporary Support fiasco...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A month and a half ago, leaving the courthouse for the last time...


Second pic 

That's a Hip Dude right there !!!!


----------



## Pbartender

just got it 55 said:


> Second pic
> 
> That's a Hip Dude right there !!!!


The other day, one my regular D&D players caught sight of the first, mid-divorce, photo and told me, "Heh... I've seen that look before. That's the look you always get when the rest of us miss something really important in the game, and we're all about to get our asses handed to us."

:lol:


----------



## Pbartender

Team Pbar checked in to see how things are going with the WWotMW and her demands. We chatted about practical options for enforcing the MSA. When I mentioned that, given the amount of money involved, it wouldn't be worth it unless I can guarantee that she'll be paying for all the lawyer expenses, he replied...

"I can assure you if you hire me to process this for you, you are probably looking at least $1,000 to resolve this. You can always take her to court yourself and not pay an attorney. I just want to be sure you know this is an option."

He went on to express his confidence in my abilities pro se... If she doesn't hire a lawyer, I'd be likely to win on most counts. If she does hire a lawyer, she'll have to pay him, and that'll cost her far more than what she owes me in shared expenses.

Hrm... I might have to look into doing this myself. Much like with the temporary support order last summer, just the threat of holding her in contempt might be enough to get her to pay ball, but I don't want to threaten her with contempt of court unless I'm fully prepared to go through with it. Filing it pro se might be a feasible option, here.


----------



## Pbartender

Mwa-HAH! HA! Ha ha ha ha ha... :lol:

Phase 1 of my Financial Master Plan is complete. Before the mortgage fiasco has any effect on my credit score, I used my excellent credit rating to to get approved for a low-interest debt consolidation loan. It was just deposited today. That will take care of my lawyer's fees and all of the ridiculously high-interest credit cards that I got saddled with, and leave a little left over to buy new bedroom furniture for the kids.

Things will continue to be tight for a while, but... My student loan will be paid off within a year. The consolidation loan will be paid off in three years. And my car loan will be paid off in less than three and a half years. Then, I'll be completely debt free...

:smthumbup: :yay: :bounce: :toast: :corkysm60: :woohoo: :smnotworthy: :yawn2:

...just in time to send the kids to college.

:slap:


----------



## Jellybeans

Congrats on the approval, Pbar. And yep, if you can do this stuff with her pro se, do it!!!

HELL YES for student loans being paid off. WOOT WOOT!


----------



## tom67

Perfect timing well done.


----------



## Pbartender

Pbartender said:


> Later, she replied:
> 
> "Since you owe me 234 for the children's expenses that I have covered over the last two months, I will not be giving you a check for 131... (140 for the August and September cell phone bill, 75 for medical coverage, *and 20 for D14's glee club wardrobe fees*). I have repeatedly informed you of my work schedule - I am off Wednesday and Saturday. On Sunday I work until 11:30."
> 
> :slap:
> 
> In other words... "I am refusing to pay the court-ordered expenses that I agreed to pay under oath in front of a judge, unless you pay for all these other expenses that are not your responsibility."
> 
> :redcard:


Here It Goes Again.

So, over the weekend, I dropped off a check for $20 with the WWotMW, for that glee club costume.

This morning, she sends me a text...

_"As of October 15th, the amount you owe me for the children's expenses that I cover is 321. Subtracting the 268 for expenses that you have covered and the 20 that you recently sent me leaves the balance you owe me at 33."_

:banghead:

She certainly is tenacious.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Here It Goes Again.
> 
> So, over the weekend, I dropped off a check for $20 with the WWotMW, for that glee club costume.
> 
> This morning, she sends me a text...
> 
> _"As of October 15th, the amount you owe me for the children's expenses that I cover is 321. Subtracting the 268 for expenses that you have covered and the 20 that you recently sent me leaves the balance you owe me at 33."_
> 
> :banghead:
> 
> She certainly is tenacious.


A trait in her you were originally attracted to?


----------



## vi_bride04

Do you have a copy of the email you have sent her before that lay out what expenses you are required and not required to pay from the MSA?

Lather, rinse, repeat....


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> A trait in her you were originally attracted to?


Nope... It's a trait that never really surfaced until recent years, and only in conjunction her increasing need to be "right", despite all evidence to the contrary.

In her, it's always been an unreasoning, spiteful, condescending, almost mindless stubbornness of a kind that I've occasionally seen in my own family, and especially my Mother.

I can't say I've ever been attracted to it.



vi_bride04 said:


> Do you have a copy of the email you have sent her before that lay out what expenses you are required and not required to pay from the MSA?
> 
> Lather, rinse, repeat....


Yes, I do. It's all in my text message archives. I can keep repeating it all as I have been and she can keep responding as she has been, but... I'm not playing tennis:

_WWotMW, you need to go read the MSA & JPA. You need to understand that neither the kids' medical insurance nor their cell phones are my responsibility. You need to understand that I am under no obligation to pay for those expenses.

You need to understand that you are in blatant violation of the settlement agreements, and that there is ample, clear evidence to prove it.

You need to understand that if I have to take you back to court to resolve these issues, you can be held in Contempt of Court for violating a court order. You will be held responsible for all court fess, filing fees, and lawyers' fees (both yours and mine) necessary to enforce the terms of the agreement.

If I don't receive payment in full for the shared expenses and your full and complete work schedule by Monday November 4th, the I will file a Petition for Rule to Show Cause and ask the judge to hold you in Contempt of Court._


----------



## angelpixie

Go get her, tiger!


----------



## Pbartender




----------



## vi_bride04

A petition to show contempt...how fun! That's where I'm at right now. Just got the paperwork back. There are about 12 points all with email evidence that he has to try to prove how he was NOT in contempt......ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha good luck with that!!!

I'm sure you will have an easy time proving it with your ex too...all the email evidence will be hard for her to explain to the judge.

I love when they shoot themselves in the foot! 

Does she have a lawyer??


----------



## Pbartender

vi_bride04 said:


> Does she have a lawyer??


Right now? Probably not. She can always go back to the schlock she used for the divorce, but I think she still owes him money.

Whatever.

Tonight's score is...

IKEA 1
Pbar 4

...and the kids have bedroom furniture.

:smthumbup:


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> Nope... It's a trait that never really surfaced until recent years, and only in conjunction her increasing need to be "right", despite all evidence to the contrary.
> 
> In her, it's always been an unreasoning, spiteful, condescending, almost mindless stubbornness of a kind that I've occasionally seen in my own family, and especially my Mother.
> 
> I can't say I've ever been attracted to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do. It's all in my text message archives. I can keep repeating it all as I have been and she can keep responding as she has been, but... I'm not playing tennis:
> 
> _WWotMW, you need to go read the MSA & JPA. You need to understand that neither the kids' medical insurance nor their cell phones are my responsibility. You need to understand that I am under no obligation to pay for those expenses.
> 
> You need to understand that you are in blatant violation of the settlement agreements, and that there is ample, clear evidence to prove it.
> 
> You need to understand that if I have to take you back to court to resolve these issues, you can be held in Contempt of Court for violating a court order. You will be held responsible for all court fess, filing fees, and lawyers' fees (both yours and mine) necessary to enforce the terms of the agreement.
> 
> If I don't receive payment in full for the shared expenses and your full and complete work schedule by Monday November 4th, the I will file a Petition for Rule to Show Cause and ask the judge to hold you in Contempt of Court._


Yup That should do it

One would think:scratchhead:


----------



## Ceegee

_WWotMW, you need to go read the MSA & JPA. You need to understand that neither the kids' medical insurance nor their cell phones are my responsibility. You need to understand that I am under no obligation to pay for those expenses.

You need to understand that you are in blatant violation of the settlement agreements, and that there is ample, clear evidence to prove it.

You need to understand that if I have to take you back to court to resolve these issues, you can be held in Contempt of Court for violating a court order. You will be held responsible for all court fess, filing fees, and lawyers' fees (both yours and mine) necessary to enforce the terms of the agreement.

If I don't receive payment in full for the shared expenses and your full and complete work schedule by Monday November 4th, the I will file a Petition for Rule to Show Cause and ask the judge to hold you in Contempt of Court._[/QUOTE]

How, if at all did she reply to this?

This would have started a WWIII in my situation. Despite the the logic, despite the facts, despite the legal documents that back it all up.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> How, if at all did she reply to this?


She hasn't yet.



Ceegee said:


> This would have started a WWIII in my situation. Despite the the logic, despite the facts, despite the legal documents that back it all up.


Yup... And that's one of WWotMW's standard reactions, as well.

Typically, she either:

Ignores the problem in the hopes that I'll forget about it and won't follow through. This is usually combined with villainizing me and victimizing herself to her friends behind the scenes.
Immediately explodes in a deluge of delusional accusations and self-righteous indignation in the hopes that I'll back down in the face of bullying. What you're calling "WWIII".
Immediately explodes in a deluge of inconsistent excuses and blame-shifting in the hopes that I'll feel sorry for her and cut her some slack.

When I confront her with a problem, she doesn't always start with the same one, but...

If I push hard enough on #1, then #2 or #3 almost always follow. And if I stand up to #2 or #3, then #1 almost always follows.

If I don't set a clear deadline and concrete consequences, that cycle will repeat continuously until I give up. Even when I do, she'll wait until the last possible moment before giving in.

I've been reading up on your older posts, Ceegee, and I can see a remarkable similarity between you and me, and CT and the WWotMW.


----------



## Pbartender

Pbartender said:


> Typically, she either:
> 
> Ignores the problem in the hopes that I'll forget about it and won't follow through. This is usually combined with villainizing me and victimizing herself to her friends behind the scenes.
> Immediately explodes in a deluge of delusional accusations and self-righteous indignation in the hopes that I'll back down in the face of bullying. What you're calling "WWIII".
> Immediately explodes in a deluge of inconsistent excuses and blame-shifting in the hopes that I'll feel sorry for her and cut her some slack.
> 
> When I confront her with a problem, she doesn't always start with the same one, but...
> 
> If I push hard enough on #1, then #2 or #3 almost always follow. And if I stand up to #2 or #3, then #1 almost always follows.


Boink! Epiphany! For those of us taking notes, this is a perfect example of the drama triangle in action.

#3 = X taking the Victim role.
#2 = X taking the Persecutor role.
#1 = X in a holding pattern between the two.

Previously, during the marriage...

#1 would tend to push me toward the Persecutor role out of frustration due to lack of communication and lack of resolution.

#2 would tend to push me toward the Victim role due to shame and blame, and then on to Rescuer if she maintained it long enough.

#3 would tend to push me straight to Rescuer in a conciliatory effort to resolve the problem.

From her point of view, the goal is always to get me to Rescuer, where I will voluntarily solve the problem with no real effort on her part. If she can there there by pushing me through Persecutor or Victim, so much the better, because she can absolve herself of responsibility for the problem by either painting me as the Bad Guy or getting me to voluntarily accept fault, respectively.

Now, regardless of what role she takes, I just lay out the problem in clear terms and offer no more than two or three clear options to resolve the situation. Whatever response I get, I repeat this three times (Three strikes!). The second time I repeat it, I give fair warning of possible consequences. The third time, I give only a single option for resolution, I set a deadline for compliance, and I threaten with consequences if the deadline is not met.

It worked quite well last spring and summer during the divorce negotiations. One of my few regrets is that I wish I'd figured it out sooner. 

Oh, well... These goddamn lemons are delicious!


----------



## Conrad

Pbartender said:


> Nope... It's a trait that never really surfaced until recent years, and only in conjunction her increasing need to be "right", despite all evidence to the contrary.
> 
> In her, it's always been an unreasoning, spiteful, condescending, almost mindless stubbornness of a kind that I've occasionally seen in my own family, and especially my Mother.
> 
> I can't say I've ever been attracted to it.


But, it must have felt comfortable. That's usually all that matters.




Pbartender said:


> _WWotMW, you need to go read the MSA & JPA. You need to understand that neither the kids' medical insurance nor their cell phones are my responsibility. You need to understand that I am under no obligation to pay for those expenses.
> 
> You need to understand that you are in blatant violation of the settlement agreements, and that there is ample, clear evidence to prove it.
> 
> You need to understand that if I have to take you back to court to resolve these issues, you can be held in Contempt of Court for violating a court order. You will be held responsible for all court fess, filing fees, and lawyers' fees (both yours and mine) necessary to enforce the terms of the agreement.
> 
> If I don't receive payment in full for the shared expenses and your full and complete work schedule by Monday November 4th, the I will file a Petition for Rule to Show Cause and ask the judge to hold you in Contempt of Court._


----------



## angstire

Pbartender said:


> Boink! Epiphany! For those of us taking notes, this is a perfect example of the drama triangle in action.
> 
> #3 = X taking the Victim role.
> #2 = X taking the Persecutor role.
> #1 = X in a holding pattern between the two.
> 
> Previously, during the marriage...
> 
> #1 would tend to push me toward the Persecutor role out of frustration due to lack of communication and lack of resolution.
> 
> #2 would tend to push me toward the Victim role due to shame and blame, and then on to Rescuer if she maintained it long enough.
> 
> #3 would tend to push me straight to Rescuer in a conciliatory effort to resolve the problem.
> 
> From her point of view, the goal is always to get me to Rescuer, where I will voluntarily solve the problem with no real effort on her part. If she can there there by pushing me through Persecutor or Victim, so much the better, because she can absolve herself of responsibility for the problem by either painting me as the Bad Guy or getting me to voluntarily accept fault, respectively.
> 
> Now, regardless of what role she takes, I just lay out the problem in clear terms and offer no more than two or three clear options to resolve the situation. Whatever response I get, I repeat this three times (Three strikes!). The second time I repeat it, I give fair warning of possible consequences. The third time, I give only a single option for resolution, I set a deadline for compliance, and I threaten with consequences if the deadline is not met.
> 
> It worked quite well last spring and summer during the divorce negotiations. One of my few regrets is that I wish I'd figured it out sooner.
> 
> Oh, well... These goddamn lemons are delicious!


Awesome PB! Good job explaining it to us and creating rules on how to deal with her. That will make dealing with her over the coming years, much easier.

:smthumbup:


----------



## angelpixie

I agree, angstire. That was a great explanation of the triangle in real life.


----------



## Jellybeans

Pbar, did you move yet?


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Boink! Epiphany! For those of us taking notes, this is a perfect example of the drama triangle in action.
> 
> #3 = X taking the Victim role.
> #2 = X taking the Persecutor role.
> #1 = X in a holding pattern between the two.
> 
> Previously, during the marriage...
> 
> #1 would tend to push me toward the Persecutor role out of frustration due to lack of communication and lack of resolution.
> 
> #2 would tend to push me toward the Victim role due to shame and blame, and then on to Rescuer if she maintained it long enough.
> 
> #3 would tend to push me straight to Rescuer in a conciliatory effort to resolve the problem.
> 
> From her point of view, the goal is always to get me to Rescuer, where I will voluntarily solve the problem with no real effort on her part. If she can there there by pushing me through Persecutor or Victim, so much the better, because she can absolve herself of responsibility for the problem by either painting me as the Bad Guy or getting me to voluntarily accept fault, respectively.
> 
> Now, regardless of what role she takes, I just lay out the problem in clear terms and offer no more than two or three clear options to resolve the situation. Whatever response I get, I repeat this three times (Three strikes!). The second time I repeat it, I give fair warning of possible consequences. The third time, I give only a single option for resolution, I set a deadline for compliance, and I threaten with consequences if the deadline is not met.
> 
> It worked quite well last spring and summer during the divorce negotiations. One of my few regrets is that I wish I'd figured it out sooner.
> 
> Oh, well... These goddamn lemons are delicious!


Going to post this on my refrigerator.


----------



## Pbartender

Conrad said:


> But, it must have felt comfortable. That's usually all that matters.


Maybe not comfortable, but... familiar? Definitely familiar.

And do I recognize it as a trait that I normally value in _myself_. As a professional troubleshooter and problem-solver, it's an invaluable aspect of personality that keeps me from getting discouraged and giving up if I don't find the answer right away.

In my relationship with the WWotMW, though, it was a liability. It kept me looking for a solution to the current problem, even though there was never a solution for me to find. If I kept looking for the real, practical answer to the problem, I'd drive myself crazy, because I'd get suckered into the drama triangle and just keep bouncing around it.

I felt WOPR at the end of _War Games_... "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"



angstire said:


> Awesome PB! Good job explaining it to us and creating rules on how to deal with her. That will make dealing with her over the coming years, much easier.


I don't know about easier, but it certainly makes dealing with her more _effective_.


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> Pbar, did you move yet?


Oh, Good Heavens, yes! I moved out about two weeks after the divorce was final. I've been renting a 3-bedroom town home for almost two months, now.


----------



## Conrad

Pbartender said:


> Maybe not comfortable, but... familiar? Definitely familiar.
> 
> And do I recognize it as a trait that I normally value in _myself_. As a professional troubleshooter and problem-solver, it's an invaluable aspect of personality that keeps me from getting discouraged and giving up if I don't find the answer right away.
> 
> In my relationship with the WWotMW, though, it was a liability. It kept me looking for a solution to the current problem, even though there was never a solution for me to find. If I kept looking for the real, practical answer to the problem, I'd drive myself crazy, because I'd get suckered into the drama triangle and just keep bouncing around it.
> 
> I felt WOPR at the end of _War Games_... "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about easier, but it certainly makes dealing with her more _effective_.


Huge revelation for me when I realized the problem-solving creativity so helpful in career is a depth charge in relationships.


----------



## Pbartender

Conrad said:


> Huge revelation for me when I realized the problem-solving creativity so helpful in career is a depth charge in relationships.


For me, the problem-solving creativity itself wasn't the problem... It was that I was trying to use it the wrong way on the wrong problem.

It was like trying to use a hammer to screw in a bolt that's already tight... while ignoring the nail that's sticking out and bent.

Once I understood what the real problem with the relationship was and the parameters behind how that problem worked, then I could start using those skills that had been making things worse in a more effective way.


----------



## Conrad

Pbartender said:


> For me, the problem-solving creativity itself wasn't the problem... It was that I was trying to use it the wrong way on the wrong problem.
> 
> It was like trying to use a hammer to screw in a bolt that's already tight... while ignoring the nail that's sticking out and bent.
> 
> Once I understood what the real problem with the relationship was and the parameters behind how that problem worked, then I could start using those skills that had been making things worse in a more effective way.


So often, the solution is stillness.

Let others work through their own junk.

If they wanted your help, they'd ask.


----------



## Pbartender

Conrad said:


> So often, the solution is stillness.
> 
> Let others work through their own junk.
> 
> If they wanted your help, they'd ask.


Quite.

The true underlying problem wasn't all the little day-to-day things we were squabbling over. It was that I'd made a fatal mistake of reasoning that lead to several false assumptions. Namely...

That I loved her and trusted her, and so she loved and trusted me.

And also...

If there was a problem that affected part or all of our family, that she was as willing as I was to work and sacrifice to resolve the problem for the good of the family.

As my wife, I expected cooperation from her, but instead received competition and conflict. And despite all evidence to the contrary, I always found a way to convince myself that it would be different the next time.


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> Boink! Epiphany! For those of us taking notes, this is a perfect example of the drama triangle in action.
> 
> #3 = X taking the Victim role.
> #2 = X taking the Persecutor role.
> #1 = X in a holding pattern between the two.
> 
> Previously, during the marriage...
> 
> #1 would tend to push me toward the Persecutor role out of frustration due to lack of communication and lack of resolution.
> 
> #2 would tend to push me toward the Victim role due to shame and blame, and then on to Rescuer if she maintained it long enough.
> 
> #3 would tend to push me straight to Rescuer in a conciliatory effort to resolve the problem.
> 
> From her point of view, the goal is always to get me to Rescuer, where I will voluntarily solve the problem with no real effort on her part. If she can there there by pushing me through Persecutor or Victim, so much the better, because she can absolve herself of responsibility for the problem by either painting me as the Bad Guy or getting me to voluntarily accept fault, respectively.
> 
> Now, regardless of what role she takes, I just lay out the problem in clear terms and offer no more than two or three clear options to resolve the situation. Whatever response I get, I repeat this three times (Three strikes!). The second time I repeat it, I give fair warning of possible consequences. The third time, I give only a single option for resolution, I set a deadline for compliance, and I threaten with consequences if the deadline is not met.
> 
> It worked quite well last spring and summer during the divorce negotiations. One of my few regrets is that I wish I'd figured it out sooner.
> 
> Oh, well... These goddamn lemons are delicious!


Peebs You know what she can't stand ?







Your so fvcken smart It just kills her


----------



## Pbartender

> Potentially Negative Alert
> Reported on 10/23/2013 by Experian


The mortgage company has officially reported "30 days past due" to the credit reporting companies.

No surprise.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> The mortgage company has officially reported "30 days past due" to the credit reporting companies.
> 
> No surprise.


Funny.

You called it...

I should be getting these notifications too but I'm not. :scratchhead:


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> I should be getting these notifications too but I'm not. :scratchhead:


I normally don't get them.

I had checked my credit report last week before applying for that consolidation loan... I'd cleaned a few things up last fall, and I wanted to make sure it was still good.

Out of curiosity, I sprung the few extra dollars to get my credit score as well. It seems that somewhere in there, I inadvertently got signed up for Experian's credit tracking system. I didn't notice until after the $20 charge already showed up. I cancelled it, but they don't refund so I get notifications for the next month.

That's all right. I'll consider it $20 well spent on entertainment.


----------



## Pbartender

Yesterday afternoon, I followed up:

_I have just received notification that the mortgage company has officially reported "30 days past due" to my credit report. This will have been reported on your credit report as well.

If the mortgage is not brought up to date or refinanced by Monday, November 4th, I will include it as another violation of the MSA in the Petition for Rule to Show Cause._

No reply to either as of yet.


----------



## Pluto2

I foresee a big ol' #3 heading your way.


----------



## Northern Monkey

So true about problem solving.

In work it was always about making things run smoothly and heading off problems before they blew up.

Funny how that approach to my marriage meant I "wasn't in charge" and had no "authority". I wanted to make it run smoothly at my own expense. She wanted what she wanted, end of.

The things that came from having authority in work are the same things that put her in charge at home.


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> I foresee a big ol' #3 heading your way.


Oh? How so?


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Oh? How so?


You going to step in and pay the mortgage so WWotMW can live happily ever after, PB?


----------



## Pluto2

Pbartender said:


> Oh? How so?


Now of course I could be wrong because the only folks who truly understand crazy tend to be crazy themselves, and I don't think I'm there .... yet, but here goes:

You've cut off her delusional outlet by using the language of a document that is available for reference. She she can't argue that the agreement does require you to pay certain kidlet expenses, 'cause it doesn't.

You've cut off her "ignore it and it goes away" because you are requiring action on her part by a certain date and its fairly clear to everyone that you are not going to back down (Of course she might not get this so it is a close second in reaction outcomes).

This leaves her with the 1) my lawyers never explained this to me, 2) I was distraught 3) life is hard 4) my hours have been cut at work and money doesn't go very far excuses hoping upon hope that you will swoop down and prevent a foreclosure that would leave her out on the street, or charged with contempt which would humiliate her in front of the kids.

I really don't believe she understands how you have changed in the last few years.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> You going to step in and pay the mortgage so WWotMW can live happily ever after, PB?


Nope. It never crossed my mind...



Pbartender said:


> Yesterday afternoon, I followed up:
> 
> _I have just received notification that the mortgage company has officially reported "30 days past due" to my credit report. This will have been reported on your credit report as well.
> 
> If the mortgage is not brought up to date or refinanced by Monday, November 4th, I will include it as another violation of the MSA in the Petition for Rule to Show Cause._


...and I will be asking the judge to force her to either catch up with the payment, refinance, or sell the house.

Even if I could, I wouldn't pay the mortgage to "save" her... I simply can't afford to. If I was the same man now that I was a year ago, I might not make the payments for her, but I would almost certainly be on the phone with the mortgage company trying to work out a deal with them on her behalf.

Now, it's not even an option. I will act to protect myself and the kids as far as I can, and let her deal with the consequences of her own problems.


----------



## LongWalk

Bad for your kids. But they already know mom is not 100%


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> You've cut off her delusional outlet by using the language of a document that is available for reference. She she can't argue that the agreement does require you to pay certain kidlet expenses, 'cause it doesn't.
> 
> You've cut off her "ignore it and it goes away" because you are requiring action on her part by a certain date and its fairly clear to everyone that you are not going to back down (Of course she might not get this so it is a close second in reaction outcomes).


Yes... that was the goal, exactly.

This is also why all contact is through written communication... She can no longer go back and rewrite history claiming that something was said when it wasn't or that something wasn't said when it was.



Pluto2 said:


> This leaves her with the 1) my lawyers never explained this to me...


Which she can't honestly use, because it's a matter of court record that she stood up under oath in front of a judge and said that she read and understood the agreements and that she thought they were fair and equitable.



Pluto2 said:


> 2) I was distraught 3) life is hard...


Neither of which are excuses that will exactly hold up in court.



Pluto2 said:


> 4) my hours have been cut at work and money doesn't go very far...


Which she would need to prove. Which she can't.

Her bank records and employment records would show that she voluntarily took a demotion and pay cut, that she did it before the divorce was final, that she agreed to and signed the settlement papers having already taken the demotion and pay cut, and that she would have been able to afford the mortgage and shared expenses and such had she NOT taken the demotion and pay cut.



Pluto2 said:


> ...excuses hoping upon hope that you will swoop down and prevent a foreclosure that would leave her out on the street, or charged with contempt which would humiliate her in front of the kids.


Oh... Ah... You were talking about her trying to change MY mind, not the judge's.  

Yeah. That's not going to happen.



Pluto2 said:


> I really don't believe she understands how you have changed in the last few years.


Years, nothing... mostly it was all in the last few months. One year ago, we were just short of six months "separated" -- the minimum time in Illinois for a no-fault divorce -- and were just starting to talk about the practical matters of filing for divorce. I lost most of texts from then when my last cell phone died, but I've still got emails... I read them and am amazed that even then, I hadn't really started to change or even realized that I needed to. I'll dig them out and share a few of them later.

Anyway, she keeps trying the old tactics she used during the marriage, expecting me to react the same old way I used to during the marriage.

I'm not really surprised, but it's almost disappointing and sort of pitiful that she hasn't recognized that the game has changed.


----------



## Pluto2

PB, I had to share this, I thought you'd appreciate. I got a series of angry/paranoid text from my now ex demanding to know why he didn't receive official notification from the court that the D was final. Was I trying to pull something over on him? Did it even happen? Taking a cue from your playbook. I replied by sending him a copy of the "Waiver of service and *NOTICE*" form he had signed. I've heard nothing since! So thanks.


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> PB, I had to share this, I thought you'd appreciate. I got a series of angry/paranoid text from my now ex demanding to know why he didn't receive official notification from the court that the D was final. Was I trying to pull something over on him? Did it even happen? Taking a cue from your playbook. I replied by sending him a copy of the "Waiver of service and *NOTICE*" form he had signed. I've heard nothing since! So thanks.


Although, be careful... A Waiver of Service and Notice doesn't necessarily mean the divorce is complete and final. It just eliminated the need for him to be formally served the notice of a pending suit by a Sheriff when you first filed for divorce.

Is your divorce final?


----------



## Pluto2

Yep. I received the signed, stamped order. Our local court has a website and he could go online and see it, but that would be effort.


----------



## Pbartender

Well, it's been a while since I last wrote an update... It's been a busy week.

As I mentioned in another thread, my eldest sister, who is a pastor, moved to a new church only a couple of hours' drive from me. My Mom came down on the train, I picked her up at the station, and we drove down to celebrate my sister's installation. It was a good excuse to dress up and look good. Her congregation is remarkably welcoming... I met a lot of new people and made a lot of new friends.

D14 had her first choir concert a week ago. They did a fantastic job... Sounded great. X was there, sitting right up front by herself, looking glum. D14 gave me a smile and a wave, once she saw where I was sitting. After the concert, X hustled D14 out before I could make my way down to congratulate her. So, later, I called D14's cell and congratulated her anyway.

Thursday night, D14 went trick or treating with some friends. I dropped her off and was invited in, so hung out with some other school parents that I hadn't seen in a while and chatted.

Friday night, D14 had a friend sleep over. At one point, she was getting a bit ornery with S15 and me, and for no real good reason. I didn't push it while her friend was there, but I did call her out on it and took her aside for a minute... She said she was just tired. I replied that I suspected that what was really happening she was tired because she wasn't sleeping well, and that she wasn't sleeping well because something was bothering her and keeping her awake. And that it wasn't fair to be a jerk to me and her brother, over something we didn't do or didn't know we did. She didn't deny it. Later, we had a private talk about it... 20 Questions.

*Pbar:* Something is bothering you and keeping you awake, yes?

*D14:* *nods*

*Pbar:* Is it a problem with your friends?

*D14:* *shakes head*

*Pbar:* Is it a problem with school?

*D14:* *shakes head*

*Pbar:* Is it a problem with me or X?

*D14:* *shrug, shrug, nod*

*Pbar:* Is it a problem with me?

*D14:* *shakes head*

*Pbar:* Is it a problem with X?

*D14:* *shrug, shrug, reluctant nod*

She went on to complain again that when they are at her house X spends a lot of time going out with her friends and her boyfriend instead of spending time with them... That X ignores D14 whenever she wants to talk about something important... That when X does take them out to do something, it's almost always with some of X's friends or her boyfriend along. The situation has been bothering her. She's been thinking about it a lot at night, and it keeps her from sleeping well.

I explained that I'd like to help, but that it a tough spot for me, because of the way the rules of the parenting agreement work. I let her know that if she needed to talk it out, or if she needed advice, she can always talk to her school counselor about it, or that I could make an appointment with a counselor outside of school.

Saturday, my sister and my niece came over to visit me and and the kids. My niece's birthday is later this week, and we decided to celebrate early. Out for lunch, cake presents, played some board games, watched a movie, I cooked dinner, then they went home. I love having family close by again.

I decided to break it off with FYG. An honest conversation about what was going on dialed us back to being friends. It was a tough decision, but I'm okay with it.

Also, at D14's concert, I noticed a poster announcing the formation of a community band in my town. I'd been thinking about getting myself a used trumpet or cornet, so I could get back into practice and play again -- it's been almost 14 years since I last played. This will be a good excuse to do it. The first practice is tonight.

Finally, today is the deadline for the WWotMW. The mortgage payment is now two months late. She hasn't responded to any of my previous texts. I don't expect anything to happen now at the last minute. I have the forms I need to fill out, I've done some research on the process online, and I have a couple of leads for getting advice and help about filing pro se form volunteer attorneys. Tomorrow, I get to work on it.


----------



## tom67

Reality is going to hit her hard.

I feel bad for your daughter that really p!sses me off.


----------



## Pbartender

tom67 said:


> Reality is going to hit her hard.
> 
> I feel bad for your daughter that really p!sses me off.


The weird thing is, months ago in a fit of prescient projection, X accurately predicted all these things... except back then she thought they would be happening to me.


----------



## Pbartender

Gearing up again.

I've already done a lot of research online, and found some good resources. I've got all the forms and documents I need to file. And a basic checklist of what I need to do to file. Tonight, I'll be stopping by the law library at the courthouse. There's a program there for lawyers to provide advice, coaching, document review, and referrals to qualified people who are working pro se.

I let Team Pbar what was going on. He gave me a few words of encouragement and wished me luck. Then, offered his advice and assistance, should I need it.

So. Game Plan.

I'm focusing on three main issues: Shared expenses, the mortgage, and her work schedule/right of first refusal.

The MSA and JPA themselves are that a court order exists and what it requires. Bank records and account statements are proof that she hasn't paid for the shared expenses or the mortgage. Text message transcripts are proof that she's refusing to send an adequate work schedule.

Because it involves money, we will likely be required to exchange financial information again.

All that will be detailed in the Petition for Rule to Show Cause. Once I properly file it and a Notice of Motion, I'll get a court date. X gets served and notified of the court date.

At the court date, I present my case. X will have to try to explain why she should not be held in contempt for intentionally violating a court order. If the judge agrees with me, he'll decide on a punishment or resolution. If the judge agrees with her, the case can simply be thrown out.

On the money issues, it is obvious that she is purposefully not paying. Financial records will back that up, as will text message transcripts. She will, most likely, argue that she cannot afford to pay, which is true in its way.

I'll have several counter-arguments prepared for that... First, that she would have been able to pay, if she hadn't taken a voluntary demotion at work. Second, that she now has a roommate living with her, and who should be paying her rental income. Lastly, that her change in employment status and income was never reported to me, my lawyer or the courts during the divorce proceedings and she agreed and signed the Judgement for Dissolution of Marriage and all related settlement agreements with full knowledge of her financial status.

With regards to the schedule, she may try to argue that the information she's given me satisfied the terms of the agreement. My counter-argument is simply that if I don't know what time she leaves and returns for work every day, then I can't exercise the Rule of First Refusal which unnecessarily limits the time I can spend with my kids.

I will ask for a full and complete work schedule. I will ask for reimbursement for the shared expenses she owes me. I will ask for her to either bring the mortgage payments up to date or to immediately refinance the mortgage. I will also ask to be reimbursed for any court fees and filing fees that were required.

If she insists that she cannot pay, then I will ask the judge to order the house sold and ask for an adjustment to the terms of the share expenses and child support... Make me 100% responsible for education expenses and eliminate or reduce child support accordingly.

Thoughts?


----------



## Why Not Be Happy?

sounds well thought out PB. good luck.


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> Gearing up again.
> 
> I've already done a lot of research online, and found some good resources. I've got all the forms and documents I need to file. And a basic checklist of what I need to do to file. Tonight, I'll be stopping by the law library at the courthouse. There's a program there for lawyers to provide advice, coaching, document review, and referrals to qualified people who are working pro se.
> 
> I let Team Pbar what was going on. He gave me a few words of encouragement and wished me luck. Then, offered his advice and assistance, should I need it.
> 
> So. Game Plan.
> 
> I'm focusing on three main issues: Shared expenses, the mortgage, and her work schedule/right of first refusal.
> 
> The MSA and JPA themselves are that a court order exists and what it requires. Bank records and account statements are proof that she hasn't paid for the shared expenses or the mortgage. Text message transcripts are proof that she's refusing to send an adequate work schedule.
> 
> Because it involves money, we will likely be required to exchange financial information again.
> 
> All that will be detailed in the Petition for Rule to Show Cause. Once I properly file it and a Notice of Motion, I'll get a court date. X gets served and notified of the court date.
> 
> At the court date, I present my case. X will have to try to explain why she should not be held in contempt for intentionally violating a court order. If the judge agrees with me, he'll decide on a punishment or resolution. If the judge agrees with her, the case can simply be thrown out.
> 
> On the money issues, it is obvious that she is purposefully not paying. Financial records will back that up, as will text message transcripts. She will, most likely, argue that she cannot afford to pay, which is true in its way.
> 
> I'll have several counter-arguments prepared for that... First, that she would have been able to pay, if she hadn't taken a voluntary demotion at work. Second, that she now has a roommate living with her, and who should be paying her rental income. Lastly, that her change in employment status and income was never reported to me, my lawyer or the courts during the divorce proceedings and she agreed and signed the Judgement for Dissolution of Marriage and all related settlement agreements with full knowledge of her financial status.
> 
> With regards to the schedule, she may try to argue that the information she's given me satisfied the terms of the agreement. My counter-argument is simply that if I don't know what time she leaves and returns for work every day, then I can't exercise the Rule of First Refusal which unnecessarily limits the time I can spend with my kids.
> 
> I will ask for a full and complete work schedule. I will ask for reimbursement for the shared expenses she owes me. I will ask for her to either bring the mortgage payments up to date or to immediately refinance the mortgage. I will also ask to be reimbursed for any court fees and filing fees that were required.
> 
> If she insists that she cannot pay, then I will ask the judge to order the house sold and ask for an adjustment to the terms of the share expenses and child support... Make me 100% responsible for education expenses and eliminate or reduce child support accordingly.
> 
> Thoughts?


As I said Peebs Your too God Damn Smart for her to Fvck with you 

and it's killing her

Full Throttel ahead my young brother


----------



## coachman

She's fvcked. Great work as usual Pbar.


----------



## Pluto2

Could I suggest that in the section requesting the sale of the house, that all expenses related to the sale be shared and/or charged equally to both parties shares, and any equity realized from the sale be subjected to a lien to secure the outstanding amounts past due.


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> Could I suggest that in the section requesting the sale of the house, that all expenses related to the sale be shared and/or charged equally to both parties shares, and any equity realized from the sale be subjected to a lien to secure the outstanding amounts past due.


The current arrangement in the MSA makes it a 25/75 (me/her, respectively) split for profit or loss if the house must be sold.

That may seem unfair to me, but I know how much the house is worth and how much is left to pay on the mortgage. The equity in the house is practically break even... It'd be a toss up as to whether there's a profit or loss, and there probably wouldn't be much more than a few thousand dollars profit or loss, either way.

But... you've got a good point. I'll keep it in mind.


----------



## LongWalk

The band plan is exciting. Keep us updated.


----------



## Pbartender

LongWalk said:


> The band plan is exciting. Keep us updated.


Monday night I borrowed a trumpet from a fellow who decided he'd rather play harmonica with the band, instead. There's a used instrument shop in town that has a pretty inexpensive cornet for sale... I'm planning on picking it up after work when I get paid on Friday.

My fingers quickly remembered what they were doing, but my chops need a little strength training. After an hour and a half long practice, my lips were numb and I ended up going to chorus rehearsal sounding almost like Mushmouth.

It was helluva fun, though. There's already plans to have the band play at the city's tree lighting ceremony after Thanksgiving, and at midnight on New Year's Eve (with fireworks!).


----------



## Pbartender

_*NOW COMES*, PBARTENDER, on his own behalf, and petitions this court for the issuance of an order requiring THE WICKED WITCH OF THE MIDWEST to show cause, if any, why she should not be held in indirect civil contempt of this court, and in support thereof, states and alleges as follows..._


----------



## tom67

Pbartender said:


> _*NOW COMES*, PBARTENDER, on his own behalf, and petitions this court for the issuance of an order requiring THE WICKED WITCH OF THE MIDWEST to show cause, if any, why she should not be held in indirect civil contempt of this court, and in support thereof, states and alleges as follows..._


You are dangerous Mr. Pro Se

And you are not a typical family law attorney who is maybe a half notch above ambulance chaser.:lol:

Make multiple copies of your evidence (discovery) for all parties.

Some judges want courtesy copies 72 hrs. before the hearing.

What you CAN do is request a copy of the judges standing order as to what is required in his/her courtroom.

At least in chancery div. and law where I operate the most.
But I know you are tuned in bro.


----------



## Pbartender

tom67 said:


> You are dangerous Mr. Pro Se
> 
> And you are not a typical family law attorney who is maybe a half notch above ambulance chaser.:lol:


I'll take that as a compliment. 



tom67 said:


> Make multiple copies of your evidence (discovery) for all parties.


Yep, yep. I was planning on four copies of everything... evidence, petitions, motions, orders, etc. ...one for me, one for her, one for the judge/filing, and one extra just in case someone else needs it.


----------



## Pam

My heart hurts for your little girl (and yes, she is still a little girl when it comes to needing her mommy). My daughter is a mother herself, and when she needs me, she is still a little girl.

So, does WWOTMW apparently think she can just ignore the house note and it will go away? I've known people who thought like that, it never seemed to work out for them.


----------



## Pbartender

And now for something completely different.

Even taking his mild autism in consideration, on paper S15 didn't do too well in school first quarter... His high school uses a college-like "block" schedule, so he's only got four classes during the day. To ease him into it, we'd registered him for Algebra, English I, Phys Ed and Study Skills. He started out with only two classes with homework, and an hour and a half long study hall at the end of the day to get it all done in school before he even gets home.

Well, he ended the quarter with a C- in Algebra and an F in English.

:redcard:

So, I met with his teachers for end-of-the-quarter conferences last Friday to see what was going on. As expected, they said he does a great job in class, so long as he doesn't get distracted. But, he's also not turning in his homework, which is really bringing his grade down. Nothing unexpected there, it's been a perennial problem ever since he started getting homework. We talked over some options to get him moving again, but the tough part is that I only have him 1.5 school nights every week... Makes it hard for me to help him with this.

Anyway, there were two other very unexpected things they told me about him...

First, in English class, they're studying Shakespeare and have been reading through Romeo & Juliet in class, with students reading each of the parts. D15, apparently, has really gotten into it. His teacher said he instantly took to the part of Benvolio, and has been volunteering to read that part every day. He's enthusiastic, attentive, knowledgeable and involved in reading and studying the play in every way. Wow. I never would have suspected D15 would have been so interested in a tragic love story like that. It's fantastic. We're going to go talk to the drama teacher at school... I talked to D15 and he might give theater a little try.

Second, his English teachers mentioned that they can usually tell which nights he stays with me, and which he doesn't... He generally seems to be in a more cheerful mood on the days he's with me. I'm not it means much, since he only goes to school from my place on Fridays and every other Monday. I'm usually more cheerful on Fridays, too. 

I bought an inexpensive used cornet from the local used instrument exchange. It's worn and beat up and a little dented, but it still works and it sounds pretty good... All things considered, I think it suits me. 










And to get back on topic, the Mutual Friend Rumor Mill reports that the WWotMW is complaining that I'm "still causing drama". 

I'm sorry she feels that way.


----------



## just got it 55

Peebs Love the new axe

Good for you…. if you want to be happy. Do what makes you happy.
My brother is a trained musician, went to Berkley & Mastered at NE Conservatory of Music 

He then studied privately for years with the best and most respected instructor’s nationally, tutoring in which he had to audition for. Just to give you an idea of the level of skill he needed to be taken on as a student.

After he was married (first time at 40 years old) he slowly gave up his music for various reasons. Most of which I have no Idea. Years later after his divorce he resumed playing and from that point on he has been the happiest he has been in years.

Again…….. good for you man. And your sons found love of the arts is something you can gain another connection with him. Help him nurture that. But I would say you need not be told this.


----------



## jpr

"C" in Algebra....I can help with that.

In math, kids need to practice, practice, practice. It is like learning to play an instrument.


----------



## just got it 55

jpr said:


> "C" in Algebra....I can help with that.
> 
> In math, kids need to practice, practice, practice. It is like learning to play an instrument.


The 10K hour rule applies to everything


----------



## Pluto2

Yea for the music and drama! These are the parts of our life that can really give meaning to rest of the world.

As for the English/homework-my sister went through the same issue with one S with Asperger's. He did the work, and usually correctly, but the follow through to turn in the work just never clicked with him. Is there any type of organizational structure that you think might help? Is his teacher willing to assist in the collection of assignments?


----------



## Pbartender

There's tons of options to help him out. He doesn't employ them, or not for very long, at least.

At this point, it's more about him _wanting_ to improve his grades and get his work done, than having available strategies for doing so. He lets leisure and comfort have a higher priority than his schoolwork.

I am willing to let him fail his classes, and have told him so. He knows where to find me, if he wants help and is truly willing to do the work.


----------



## caladan

Pbartender said:


> And now for something completely different.
> 
> Even taking his mild autism in consideration, on paper S15 didn't do too well in school first quarter... His high school uses a college-like "block" schedule, so he's only got four classes during the day. To ease him into it, we'd registered him for Algebra, English I, Phys Ed and Study Skills. He started out with only two classes with homework, and an hour and a half long study hall at the end of the day to get it all done in school before he even gets home.
> 
> Well, he ended the quarter with a C- in Algebra and an F in English.
> 
> :redcard:
> 
> So, I met with his teachers for end-of-the-quarter conferences last Friday to see what was going on. As expected, they said he does a great job in class, so long as he doesn't get distracted. But, he's also not turning in his homework, which is really bringing his grade down. Nothing unexpected there, it's been a perennial problem ever since he started getting homework. We talked over some options to get him moving again, but the tough part is that I only have him 1.5 school nights every week... Makes it hard for me to help him with this.
> 
> Anyway, there were two other very unexpected things they told me about him...
> 
> First, in English class, they're studying Shakespeare and have been reading through Romeo & Juliet in class, with students reading each of the parts. D15, apparently, has really gotten into it. His teacher said he instantly took to the part of Benvolio, and has been volunteering to read that part every day. He's enthusiastic, attentive, knowledgeable and involved in reading and studying the play in every way. Wow. I never would have suspected D15 would have been so interested in a tragic love story like that. It's fantastic. We're going to go talk to the drama teacher at school... I talked to D15 and he might give theater a little try.
> 
> Second, his English teachers mentioned that they can usually tell which nights he stays with me, and which he doesn't... He generally seems to be in a more cheerful mood on the days he's with me. I'm not it means much, since he only goes to school from my place on Fridays and every other Monday. I'm usually more cheerful on Fridays, too.
> 
> I bought an inexpensive used cornet from the local used instrument exchange. It's worn and beat up and a little dented, but it still works and it sounds pretty good... All things considered, I think it suits me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And to get back on topic, the Mutual Friend Rumor Mill reports that the WWotMW is complaining that I'm "still causing drama".
> 
> I'm sorry she feels that way.


Heh. Your son also appears to have undergone a gender change during this period, he's become a daughter! lol.


----------



## Ceegee

I recently referred to S12 as "S12" in an email to XW. 

I'm sure she was confused by that.


----------



## Pbartender

caladan said:


> Heh. Your son also appears to have undergone a gender change during this period, he's become a daughter! lol.


Whoop... Stupid fingers.


----------



## Pbartender

*Petition:* Filed
*Notice:* Mailed
*Miller:* Time


----------



## Pbartender

She should get the Notice of Motion and a copy of the signed, stamped and filed Petition before the weekend...

I can't wait to see what happens. In the meantime, I ate an entire Home Run Inn sausage pizza and drank half a bottle of wine in celebration...

I'm not sure if it's a good thing or bad thing that I don't have a girl around to share it with.

:corkysm60:


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



Pbartender said:


> She should get the Notice of Motion and a copy of the signed, stamped and filed Petition before the weekend...
> 
> I can't wait to see what happens. In the meantime, I ate an entire Home Run Inn sausage pizza and drank half a bottle of wine in celebration...
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a good thing or bad thing that I don't have a girl around to share it with.
> 
> :corkysm60:


Think she will go nuclear or just ignore it?

Its a good thing....Treat Yo Self and just enjoy "you" time for the moment


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> She should get the Notice of Motion and a copy of the signed, stamped and filed Petition before the weekend...
> 
> I can't wait to see what happens. In the meantime, I ate an entire Home Run Inn sausage pizza and drank half a bottle of wine in celebration...
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a good thing or bad thing that I don't have a girl around to share it with.
> 
> :corkysm60:


That's a one man party. 

I love those. 

Finish that bottle.


----------



## angelpixie

Ceegee said:


> That's a one man party.
> 
> I love those.


Me, too.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> Finish that bottle.


Yyyyeeeeeaaaaahhh... No.


----------



## Pbartender

vi_bride04 said:


> Think she will go nuclear or just ignore it?


That's what I'm curious about... If she's true to from, I think it'll be an odd combination of both.

Here's what I'm betting:

To her newer friends, she'll complain about it, find a way to put the blame on me to gain their sympathy and try to get them to come to her rescue against the nasty ex-husband, but otherwise downplay it and avoid any details that would reveal the truth behind the situation.

To me, if she doesn't continue to completely ignore me, she'll start coming up with excuses... She didn't realize she had to pay the mortgage... She thought she had a certain amount of time after the divorce before she had to start paying... She wasn't getting bills to remind her... She thought the due date was on a different day... She can't afford to pay...

Then, she'll put off any practical solution and resolution until it's almost too late. She'll panic, and do something or ask for something, that will at first seem like a good idea to her, without first thinking through the consequences... And, of course, it'll just get her in more trouble later.


----------



## vi_bride04

Yeah, that sounds about right probably. 

I thought maybe she would go completely nuclear but she has been pretty quiet and just ignoring any communication when it comes to following the rules of the JOD. Like my ex - if they ignore it, it will just go away, right? lol


----------



## Mavash.

Pbartender said:


> She didn't realize she had to pay the mortgage... She thought she had a certain amount of time after the divorce before she had to start paying... She wasn't getting bills to remind her... She thought the due date was on a different day...


This just made me laugh out loud.

:rofl:


----------



## Pam

That's so funny. It doesn't matter what the due date is, when you miss several of them.


----------



## Pbartender

Mavash. said:


> This just made me laugh out loud.
> 
> :rofl:





Pam said:


> That's so funny. It doesn't matter what the due date is, when you miss several of them.


She hasn't made those excuses yet, but I expect her to...

...and then she'll probably ask me to return something I stole.


----------



## Pbartender

No response yet.

There's another likely possibility to consider...

Somehow, she's finally realized that I'm right and she's wrong. (Or, at least, she knows I'm right about the letter of the law and the specific requirements of the settlement agreements... in her mind I don't doubt that she still believes she's right and I'm wrong.) It could be she isn't responding, because she can't admit she's wrong. And yet, behind the scenes, she may now be quietly scrambling to find the money she needs to pay.


----------



## tom67

Pbartender said:


> No response yet.
> 
> There's another likely possibility to consider...
> 
> Somehow, she's finally realized that I'm right and she's wrong. (Or, at least, she knows I'm right about the letter of the law and the specific requirements of the settlement agreements... in her mind I don't doubt that she still believes she's right and I'm wrong.) It could be she isn't responding, because she can't admit she's wrong. And yet, behind the scenes, she may now be quietly scrambling to find the money she needs to pay.


Then what happens next month good grief.:slap:


----------



## Ceegee

tom67 said:


> Then what happens next month good grief.:slap:


You mean you have to pay the mortgage EVERY MONTH???

How was this being done before???


----------



## Pbartender

tom67 said:


> Then what happens next month good grief.:slap:


Next month, she gets to explain to the judge just exactly what the hell's going on.

I may be exploring these possibilities out of curiosity as a thought experiment, but whatever the reality actually is changes nothing.

The preliminary court date is already set for November 25th, and the Notice has been sent. In about a week and a half, I will show up in court with or without her, the judge will issue an Order for Rule to Show Cause, and she will be served that Order. Another date will be scheduled sometime in December for the hearing at which we will both make our cases and present our evidence.

She's had fair warning for months. It's too late now. I hope she likes the taste of those goddamn lemons.


----------



## Pbartender

No response yet... She's either ignoring it for now, or she hasn't bothered to read her mail.

Preliminary court date is a week from today.


----------



## Pluto2

my money's on a big ignore


----------



## Pbartender

And the winner is...

Ignore the problem, change the subject, and then try act as if nothing's wrong. The WWotMW texted me earlier tonight:

_"I was wondering what your plans were regarding the Friday after Thanksgiving... obviously I will be at work in the morning, I will be home by 2."_

_"If you are not going to pick the kids up that morning, Roommate will ask them to watch her girls until I get home."_

_"Also, please let me know if you want them to be with you with weekend (which would preserve our current rotation) or with me (as the schedule in the jpa indicates should happen)..."_

_"I am fine with either & would like to plan out the weekend schedule for the next several months as I have several upcoming events that need to be schedules."_

I like the "obviously" she tossed in there... She's never really given me her work schedule, so it's anything but obvious. 

Since I was going by the schedule from the JPA, I've already made plans for Thanksgiving... I'm road tripping up to Minnesota with my sister to visit my family. I won't even be here to pick up the kids that morning.

Eh, I'll respond to this tomorrow. I'll think it over, but it'll probably go something like this...

"I've already made plans to visit family in Minnesota over Thanksgiving. If the kids are interested, I would be happy to take them along. I'll be leaving Thursday morning and returning Saturday evening. However, until your current violations of the MSA and JPA are addressed in court by a judge, I don't believe it would be either appropriate or useful to plan any further deviations from the parenting schedule."

...but I need to sleep on it.

:sleeping:


----------



## Pluto2

"And the winner is..."

So is there a door prize?

One thought on your communication. You write that "until your current violations of the MSA .... are addressed in court". A less antagonistic approach would be "until my pending motion is heard". Your way assumes guilt, which negates her right to address the court. I think you will win, but if she's trying to communicate nicely then the wording of your message would likely end that. 
Just a thought.


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> One thought on your communication. You write that "until your current violations of the MSA .... are addressed in court". A less antagonistic approach would be "until my pending motion is heard". Your way assumes guilt, which negates her right to address the court. I think you will win, but if she's trying to communicate nicely then the wording of your message would likely end that.
> Just a thought.


Oh, I know. I was feeling a little bit pissy about it last night. That's exactly why I wanted to sleep on it. 

However...

Based on her previous communications, the only reason she's trying to "communicate nicely" is because she the schedule as-is is inconveniencing her. She's made plans without regards to the schedule, and instead of planning around the schedule, she want me to take on the inconvenience for her.

For now, I will just let her know of my plans for Thanksgiving and extend my invitation for the kids to join the trip. There's no need to respond to the rest just yet -- she's made no specific request for any specific date -- so I won't.


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> And the winner is...
> 
> Ignore the problem, change the subject, and then try act as if nothing's wrong. The WWotMW texted me earlier tonight:
> 
> _"I was wondering what your plans were regarding the Friday after Thanksgiving... obviously I will be at work in the morning, I will be home by 2."_
> 
> _"If you are not going to pick the kids up that morning, Roommate will ask them to watch her girls until I get home."_
> 
> _"Also, please let me know if you want them to be with you with weekend (which would preserve our current rotation) or with me (as the schedule in the jpa indicates should happen)..."_
> 
> _"I am fine with either & would like to plan out the weekend schedule for the next several months as I have several upcoming events that need to be schedules."_
> 
> I like the "obviously" she tossed in there... She's never really given me her work schedule, so it's anything but obvious.
> 
> Since I was going by the schedule from the JPA, I've already made plans for Thanksgiving... I'm road tripping up to Minnesota with my sister to visit my family. I won't even be here to pick up the kids that morning.
> 
> Eh, I'll respond to this tomorrow. I'll think it over, but it'll probably go something like this...
> 
> "I've already made plans to visit family in Minnesota over Thanksgiving. If the kids are interested, I would be happy to take them along. I'll be leaving Thursday morning and returning Saturday evening. However, until your current violations of the MSA and JPA are addressed in court by a judge, I don't believe it would be either appropriate or useful to plan any further deviations from the parenting schedule."
> 
> ...but I need to sleep on it.
> 
> :sleeping:


Peebs you have a carrier in counseling people in your shoes down the road

You are very good at it deep into your own case I can’t imagine how good you would be at this with an objective view of others.

Look into it...........and stay here advising others

You are a rising star my young brother


----------



## Pbartender

Pbartender said:


> For now, I will just let her know of my plans for Thanksgiving and extend my invitation for the kids to join the trip.


I did. She replied:

_"That will not work as they do get to spend the day with me on Thursday and we have already made plans with friends for that entire day."_

Yeah, I expected it would "not work".  D14 told me all about the "plans" with "friends"... It amounts to the WWotMW taking the kids over to posOM's parents' house to spend Thanksgiving with his family. D14 didn't exactly sound excited about the prospect.

I'd be lying if I said it didn't bother me a little... But it's not my problem.


----------



## Pbartender

But wait! There's more!

Here's comes the excuse/blame-shift combo... She texts me:

_"Also, The Mortage Company will still not send me statements or allow me to make any changes to the account without the login (and password) to the account."_

_"Because you set up the account and canceled home delivery I will not be able to make any changes to the account (including setting up automatic payments and refinancing the to remove your name) without that information._

:bsflag: :bsflag: :bsflag:

And here's why...

The afternoon of the divorce, I called the mortgage company and had them cancel automatic payments and resume paper billing. That same afternoon, I sent her an email with all the information she's now requesting. She's had it for more than three months.

She does not need access to the online account to set up automatic payments (a simple phone call to the customer service department will do) or to initiate a mortgage assumption (a simple email to the address I provided her 3 months ago will do). Refinancing is a different beast, but is akin to securing financing prior to buying a house... Needless to say, she doesn't need the password or login to the online account to refinance, either.

If any of these things were truly a problem, she should have said so months ago.

My only response was to remind her of the email with the information I sent her back in August. Otherwise, it still changes nothing.


Oh... I took the time to log in to the mortgage's online account, so I could print out a copy of the payment history to use in court later. Looks like she sent in a $4,500 payment by phone yesterday... I wonder where she got the money from?


----------



## vi_bride04

It never ends with these irresponsible people, does it?

Excuse, blame, excuse, excuse, excuse, blame, I don't know what your talking about, you never told me, excuse blame blame blame....

And then magically they cover their ass somehow by lying to other people about their situation.


----------



## angelpixie

And magically coming up with money to pay the bill she should/could have paid when it was due, which would have eliminated the need to make excuses/blame others in the 1st place. 

Rinse, repeat.


----------



## Pbartender

Yep... Just like at the end of July with the payment for the Temporary Support Order.

Only, this time it's too late. The petition's already been filed. I'm sure she's acting all surprised about it right about now.

I warned her about it. Twice. I told her exactly what I was going to do. What did she expect would happen?

She really needs to start paying attention.


----------



## just got it 55

vi_bride04 said:


> It never ends with these irresponsible people, does it?
> 
> Excuse, blame, excuse, excuse, excuse, blame, I don't know what your talking about, you never told me, excuse blame blame blame....*DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA*
> 
> And then magically they cover their ass somehow by lying to other people about their situation.


Fixed that for YA


----------



## Pbartender

I went to to see D14 cheer at her first basketball game of the season. The WWotMW was there. She sat at the very back of the bleachers, alone, scowling, with her arms crossed, and almost dozing off when she wasn't texting on her phone. I think she might have noticed me, because she spent much of the game with her back half-turned to me. She didn't look like she was having a very good time.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> I went to to see D14 cheer at her first basketball game of the season. The WWotMW was there. She sat at the very back of the bleachers, alone, scowling, with her arms crossed, and almost dozing off when she wasn't texting on her phone. I think she might have noticed me, because she spent much of the game with her back half-turned to me. She didn't look like she was having a very good time.


On FB I wouldn't like this. 

On TAM I can't help but like it. 

In the words of HappyKaty, it must suck to suck.


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> I went to to see D14 cheer at her first basketball game of the season. The WWotMW was there. She sat at the very back of the bleachers, alone, scowling, with her arms crossed, and almost dozing off when she wasn't texting on her phone. I think she might have noticed me, because she spent much of the game with her back half-turned to me. She didn't look like she was having a very good time.



A guilty conscience will do that to you.

Knowing in your heart that you fvcked up an not willing / able to be truthfull to yourself and others will also.

Not being able to make others understand and validate her sh!t
is the most frustrating of all

She is not really over it 

The greener grass was only a theory / fantacy

What a suprise


----------



## Pam

I just don't like that woman. I can't wait until she gets some kind of punishment.


----------



## Ceegee

Pam said:


> I just don't like that woman. I can't wait until she gets some kind of punishment.


Her punishment is being her.


----------



## Jellybeans

just got it 55 said:


> A guilty conscience will do that to you.
> 
> Knowing in your heart that you fvcked up an not willing / able to be truthfull to yourself and others will also.


It is sad


----------



## Pluto2

So based on the "karma" thread statement, tell tell. What happened?


----------



## Pbartender

Just got back from the courthouse...

The WWotMW did show up. She didn't bring her attorney along. Decided to do it on her own.

No big deal. Judge called us up, asked a few questions to clarify the case, set a date, and issued the order. WWotMW decided to accept service right there. Then, the judge informed her of her rights... Oh, the look on her face when the judge said the words, "indefinite incarceration". You all know I'm not one to condone revenge, but I'd be lying if I said that didn't feel good. Just a little.

The best part is that the WWotMW decided to return fire with her own Petition. She alleges that I didn't pay my half of the mortgage payment in August, that I owe HER money for shared expenses, and that I haven't provided her accurate login information for the mortgage account.

:rofl:

The funniest thing is, I had all the proof I needed right then and there to disprove her allegations... I paid that month's half of the mortgage directly to the mortgage company instead of to her, and I have billing records to show it. She's asking for money that isn't part of the shared expenses... The one shared expense she did pay for, I reimbursed her for, and have a cancelled check to prove it. I sent her the login information for the mortgage account THREE MONTHS AGO in an email, which I had a printed copy of.

:slap:

It's almost too easy.

:bringiton:


----------



## Pluto2

like shooting fish, baby


----------



## Jellybeans

Glad to hear one more courthouse meeting is down/marked off the list. Slowly but surely you will get there.

I hated going to court when Ex-Jelly and I were divorcing. I wished I didn't have to show at all.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Just got back from the courthouse...
> 
> The WWotMW did show up. She didn't bring her attorney along. Decided to do it on her own.
> 
> No big deal. Judge called us up, asked a few questions to clarify the case, set a date, and issued the order. WWotMW decided to accept service right there. Then, the judge informed her of her rights... Oh, the look on her face when the judge said the words, "indefinite incarceration". You all know I'm not one to condone revenge, but I'd be lying if I said that didn't feel good. Just a little.
> 
> The best part is that the WWotMW decided to return fire with her own Petition. She alleges that I didn't pay my half of the mortgage payment in August, that I owe HER money for shared expenses, and that I haven't provided her accurate login information for the mortgage account.
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> The funniest thing is, I had all the proof I needed right then and there to disprove her allegations... I paid that month's half of the mortgage directly to the mortgage company instead of to her, and I have billing records to show it. She's asking for money that isn't part of the shared expenses... The one shared expense she did pay for, I reimbursed her for, and have a cancelled check to prove it. I sent her the login information for the mortgage account THREE MONTHS AGO in an email, which I had a printed copy of.
> 
> :slap:
> 
> It's almost too easy.
> 
> :bringiton:


Didn't expect it to go any other way.

:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## tom67

Ceegee said:


> Didn't expect it to go any other way.
> 
> :smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


:iagree:Could see that coming a mile away.
:smthumbup:


----------



## philglossop

Oh revenge is always a dish best served cold. Preferably stone cold.

Bless her, it's all a trauma and drama and counter claims.

Nice to have evidence mind!


----------



## vi_bride04

Bet she felt DUMB

hahahaha


----------



## Ceegee

vi_bride04 said:


> Bet she felt DUMB
> 
> hahahaha


Hmmm,

I'm betting she felt like a victim.


----------



## just got it 55

Ceegee said:


> Didn't expect it to go any other way.
> 
> :smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


Ceegee Maybe you can have Peebs represent you :smthumbup:


----------



## Pam

What happens now? When does she get what she deserves?


----------



## Pbartender

Pam said:


> What happens now? When does she get what she deserves?


A hearing for a Rule to Cause is scheduled for the 11th... two weeks from tomorrow.

Then, we both go back to court. We each present our evidence to the judge and make our respective cases. The judge then decides whether or not she A) did not violate the settlement agreement, B) did violate it but for a good reason, or C) did violate it willfully, maliciously and without good reason.

If it's C, then the judge pretty much has free reign to decide punishment... Specifically mentioned was the suggestion that X could be sent to the county jail, and kept until she complied with whatever demands the judge set for her.

Note that, since X filed her own petition against me, all the same applies to me. The difference being, I can actually prove my case against her and disprove her case against me. No worries, there.


----------



## Pluto2

considering a charge of frivolous filing against WWotMW?


----------



## Jellybeans

When do you anticipate the D will be finalized?


----------



## angelpixie

Tempting, but maybe a tad overkill. Pbar doesn't want the judge thinking he's just vindictive, imo.


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> considering a charge of frivolous filing against WWotMW?


Nope. No need to.



angelpixie said:


> Tempting, but maybe a tad overkill. Pbar doesn't want the judge thinking he's just vindictive, imo.


Exactly. But more than that, the two petitions, hers and mine, will be addressed on the same day and at the same time.

Hers will be quickly dismissed and easily seen by the judge as frivolous bullying revenge (probably figured it out the moment X handed the judge her petition... I don't doubt judges see it happen all the time). Mine will be easily proven.

I doubt the judge will be happy about the WWotMW wasting her time and will take that into consideration when handing out the judgment.



Jellybeans said:


> When do you anticipate the D will be finalized?


Oh, the divorce was already finalized more than three months ago... This is about making sure the WWotMW is following the rules of the settlement she signed when it was finalized.


----------



## angelpixie

Pbar's new nickname:


----------



## angelpixie

Jeepers, that's kinda big.


----------



## vi_bride04

.....that's what she said


----------



## angelpixie

vi_bride04 said:


> .....that's what she said


----------



## Pbartender

vi_bride04 said:


> .....that's what she said


----------



## Pbartender

Let's catch up...

Had a nice trip up to Minnesota for Thanksgiving. Most of the Clan was there. Everybody had been having troubles of one sort or another... Now, everyone's doing better or on their way to doing better. We all had a great time. It was perhaps the best family get-together we've had in years.

It was awfully nice to be surrounded with family for a while, but a little sad the the kids couldn't be there. Also a little disappointing... Grandma and all the aunts and uncles wanted to say Happy Thankgiving to S15 and D14, but neither of them were answering their phones or messages. I'm not certain why they weren't. I'll have to have a talk about it with them when they show up tonight.

And then, in the last two weeks, I've had two good friends announce to me that they're getting divorced...

One was an old friend from high school. His wife left a note and walked out on him and his kids.

The other is a couple who were mutual friends of me and the WWotMW. X used to work with the wife, and the husband works here at the lab. I'm good fiends with both of them. Throughout the last year, he had been one of my few friends who stuck around and I'd talked to him about all the same sorts of things that had been going on with the divorce that I'd been talking with you guys here. Anyway, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he tells me that he's been having a full blown affair for the last eight months, that he's confessed to his wife, and that's it's pretty much over.

So... All this time that he's been sympathizing with me about what the WWotMW was doing to me and the kids, he's been doing the exact same thing to his wife. Jackass.


----------



## Ceegee

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



Pbartender said:


> Let's catch up...
> 
> Had a nice trip up to Minnesota for Thanksgiving. Most of the Clan was there. Everybody had been having troubles of one sort or another... Now, everyone's doing better or on their way to doing better. We all had a great time. It was perhaps the best family get-together we've had in years.
> 
> It was awfully nice to be surrounded with family for a while, but a little sad the the kids couldn't be there. Also a little disappointing... Grandma and all the aunts and uncles wanted to say Happy Thankgiving to S15 and D14, but neither of them were answering their phones or messages. I'm not certain why they weren't. I'll have to have a talk about it with them when they show up tonight.
> 
> And then, in the last two weeks, I've had two good friends announce to me that they're getting divorced...
> 
> One was an old friend from high school. His wife left a note and walked out on him and his kids.
> 
> The other is a couple who were mutual friends of me and the WWotMW. X used to work with the wife, and the husband works here at the lab. I'm good fiends with both of them. Throughout the last year, he had been one of my few friends who stuck around and I'd talked to him about all the same sorts of things that had been going on with the divorce that I'd been talking with you guys here. Anyway, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he tells me that he's been having a full blown affair for the last eight months, that he's confessed to his wife, and that's it's pretty much over.
> 
> So... All this time that he's been sympathizing with me about what the WWotMW was doing to me and the kids, he's been doing the exact same thing to his wife. Jackass.


Glad you had a good time with the family. 

You're buddy is a jackass. But, it's not surprising. Bet was justifying his affair to himself the whole time he was listening to you talk about WWotMW. Telling himself why his situation was unique.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> Glad you had a good time with the family.
> 
> You're buddy is a jackass. But, it's not surprising. Bet was justifying his affair to himself the whole time he was listening to you talk about WWotMW. Telling himself why his situation was unique.


Of course, he's a victim... don't you know?


----------



## Pluto2

So glad you had a good visit with the family.
I feel your pain when it comes to getting teens to answer their cellphones. If you have a reasonable solution, please share.
And yes, your friend is a jackass.


----------



## Pbartender

Turns out D14 had lost her phone charger and S15 was being oblivious.



Figures.


----------



## Pbartender

Putting together the last bits of paperwork and evidence for Wednesday... Haven't heard back from the WWotMW yet. I'm a little nervous -- I don't want to leave something out -- but I think I've got everything line. No real worries about it.

Had two big chorus concerts over the weekend. We sang great. The director and many of the other singer congratulated me on my first season with the choir, and all said they hoped I'd return in a couple months for the spring season. I'd already planned on it.

:smthumbup:

Pickup some emergency call-in overtime over the weekend, making some quick off-hours repairs. Half a day's pay for half an hour of work... That's Christmas present money that I wasn't expecting!

:smthumbup:

My friend the Jackass broke his hand last week... he posted something about it on FB, and when his family and friends started asking how he broke it, he deleted the post.

I later found out from his wife that he broke it punching his girlfriend's husband.

:slap:

I'm upgrading him to Asshat.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Putting together the last bits of paperwork and evidence for Wednesday... Haven't heard back from the WWotMW yet. I'm a little nervous -- I don't want to leave something out -- but I think I've got everything line. No real worries about it.
> 
> Had two big chorus concerts over the weekend. We sang great. The director and many of the other singer congratulated me on my first season with the choir, and all said they hoped I'd return in a couple months for the spring season. I'd already planned on it.
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> Pickup some emergency call-in overtime over the weekend, making some quick off-hours repairs. Half a day's pay for half an hour of work... That's Christmas present money that I wasn't expecting!
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> My friend the Jackass broke his hand last week... he posted something about it on FB, and when his family and friends started asking how he broke it, he deleted the post.
> 
> I later found out from his wife that he broke it punching his girlfriend's husband.
> 
> :slap:
> 
> I'm upgrading him to Asshat.


Awesome post PB.


----------



## vi_bride04

Pbartender said:


> My friend the Jackass broke his hand last week... he posted something about it on FB, and when his family and friends started asking how he broke it, he deleted the post.
> 
> I later found out from his wife that he broke it punching his girlfriend's husband.
> 
> :slap:
> 
> I'm upgrading him to Asshat.


Hasn't made douche canoe yet? lol

Man, what an idiot! Guess it shows where his loyalties lie when it comes to his wife and his gf, huh...

Do you still talk to him or not really?


----------



## Pbartender

vi_bride04 said:


> Do you still talk to him or not really?


Haven't heard from him in a while, and I'm not going out of my way to talk to him right now.


----------



## Pbartender

Armed with .50 caliber bullet points.

:gun:


----------



## Ceegee

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



Pbartender said:


> Armed with .50 caliber bullet points.
> 
> :gun:


A walk in the park.


----------



## Pbartender

Just got back. The short version...

The WWotMW was found in contempt over the shared expenses, and had to pay up. She had cash in hand and paid me right there.

A few weeks back she had found enough money to pay the mortgage up enough to cover the all the payments that were late when I file the petition. So, even though there are still late payments right now, she wasn't found in contempt over that.

Finally, she told me her complete regular work schedule right there in the court, so she wasn't held in contempt over that, either.

The judge told me that if this continues to be a problem, I may have to file a petition to modify the MSA/JPA accordingly. She also expressed her dissatisfaction on "our" lack of communication, and using up time on "a few hundred dollars". To me, though, there was more at stake than just that, but hey... I wasn't going to argue with the judge.

It wasn't quite what I was expecting, but all-in-all, I got what what I aiming for, so I'll call it a success.

It was a busy day in court, so we didn't get to WWotMW's counter-petition... We'll have to go back next week for that.


Oh... An interesting anecdote...

The WWotMW didn't show up right away. Her lawyer, however, was there. While I sitting in the court room, waiting for our case to be called and listening to the other proceedings, he noticed me, smiled, and gave me a little wave. He came over, said hello, told me the WWotMW was having car trouble and would be late, let me know that he was there on another matter, assured me that he wasn't representing her today, and then wished me luck.


----------



## Pluto2

Well done.
Are you concerned about where the money is coming from, or would her salary suffice?
Do you think she actually heard what the judge said about the possible modifications of the MSA/JPA do to her behavior?


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Just got back. The short version...
> 
> The WWotMW was found in contempt over the shared expenses, and had to pay up. She had cash in hand and paid me right there.
> 
> A few weeks back she had found enough money to pay the mortgage up enough to cover the all the payments that were late when I file the petition. So, even though there are still late payments right now, she wasn't found in contempt over that.
> 
> Finally, she told me her complete regular work schedule right there in the court, so she wasn't held in contempt over that, either.
> 
> The judge told me that if this continues to be a problem, I may have to file a petition to modify the MSA/JPA accordingly. She also expressed her dissatisfaction on "our" lack of communication, and using up time on "a few hundred dollars". To me, though, there was more at stake than just that, but hey... I wasn't going to argue with the judge.
> 
> It wasn't quite what I was expecting, but all-in-all, I got what what I aiming for, so I'll call it a success.
> 
> It was a busy day in court, so we didn't get to WWotMW's counter-petition... We'll have to go back next week for that.
> 
> 
> Oh... An interesting anecdote...
> 
> The WWotMW didn't show up right away. Her lawyer, however, was there. While I sitting in the court room, waiting for our case to be called and listening to the other proceedings, he noticed me, smiled, and gave me a little wave. He came over, said hello, told me the WWotMW was having car trouble and would be late, let me know that he was there on another matter, assured me that he wasn't representing her today, and then wished me luck.


You left court with more money than you had when you went in.

WWofMW left with less money than when she went in.

That's a victory my friend.


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> You left court with more money than you had when you went in.
> 
> WWofMW left with less money than when she went in.
> 
> That's a victory my friend.



I won't get a foreclosure on my credit report.
I walked away with enough cash to buy groceries for the rest of the month.
I have her work schedule, and can use it to see the kids a little more often.

Regardless of whether or not she's held in contempt over any of it, that's what I wanted and that's what I got.

The way she was acting in court, though, it doesn't seem like she's really learned the lesson. We'll see.


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> I won't get a foreclosure on my credit report.
> I walked away with enough cash to buy groceries for the rest of the month.
> I have her work schedule, and can use it to see the kids a little more often.
> 
> Regardless of whether or not she's held in contempt over any of it, that's what I wanted and that's what I got.
> 
> The way she was acting in court, though, it doesn't seem like she's really learned the lesson. We'll see.


Honestly Peebs 

What nonsense 

Anyway be magnanimous in victory


----------



## Pbartender

This morning via text:

*WWotMW:* I am keeping D14 at home today... she has a cold. I stayed home from work, & I will be able to be with her most of the day, I have an appointment later (Roommate will be here with her while I am away). Also, S15 has a packet for health that is due Friday (he has been "working" on it all week) he also has two late assignments for health, if he completes them his teacher will give him partial credit... I have not been able to get him to bring the late assignments home, will talk to his teaher today about getting new copies of the packets so he can work on them.

*Me:* Thank you for letting me know... I can pick her up after work, if you need me to. I presume that she'll be skipping cheerleading tonight, also?

*WWotMW:* Picking her up would be great (what time? So I can have her ready) and yes, no school = no activities

*Me:* I leave work around 3:30, so I should be there between 3:45 and 4:00. If that changes, I'll text you.

*Me:* I'll make sure S15 gets that Health homework done, if brings it home with him... I'll send him a reminder later this afternoon, so he doesn't forget.

*WWotMW:* Best of luck w/S15 & the homework... I have been texting him reminders (as well as giving him verbal reminders) all week... he has about 20% of the one due Friday done after =6 hours of "working" on it this week. He is mad at me for grounding him from tv/movies/games btw




Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. What a change! If we'd had this level of communication going the whole time, we wouldn't be in this mess, now would we?



Let's see if she keeps it up.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. What a change! *If we'd had this level of communication going the whole time, we wouldn't be in this mess, now would we?
> *
> 
> 
> Let's see if she keeps it up.


It wasn't the lack of communication it was her deliberate refusal to communicate with you.

Big difference.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

The power of a court order

Disordered, high-conflict women are incredibly afraid of being punished. Of being *perceived* to have done wrong. Especially publicly.

Hopefully her good behavior lasts.


----------



## vi_bride04

Look at that good behavior! Like a little kid who has been reprimanded, lol


----------



## Pbartender

vi_bride04 said:


> Look at that good behavior! Like a little kid who has been reprimanded, lol


Funny you should say that... I'll be using generally the same technique to get S15 to finish his Health homework tonight.


----------



## just got it 55

vi_bride04 said:


> Look at that good behavior! Like a little kid who has been reprimanded, lol


The power of positive re enforcement 

You know the drill Peebs


----------



## caladan

ThreeStrikes said:


> The power of a court order
> 
> Disordered, high-conflict women are incredibly afraid of being punished. Of being *perceived* to have done wrong. Especially publicly.
> 
> Hopefully her good behavior lasts.


Take the "women" out of this statement, and I'll join in with the likes. That said, it's a good point.


----------



## just got it 55

ThreeStrikes said:


> The power of a court order
> 
> Disordered, high-conflict women are incredibly afraid of being punished. Of being *perceived* to have done wrong. Especially publicly.
> 
> Hopefully her good behavior lasts.


If she continues to exhibit good behavior and Peebs continues in kind with his wisdom and charm she is going to think to herself,
Why did I divorce this man ? :scratchhead:


----------



## Pbartender

Pbartender said:


> This morning via text:
> 
> *WWotMW:* Also, S15 has a packet for health that is due Friday (he has been "working" on it all week) he also has two late assignments for health, if he completes them his teacher will give him partial credit... I have not been able to get him to bring the late assignments home, will talk to his teaher today about getting new copies of the packets so he can work on them.
> 
> *Me:* I'll make sure S15 gets that Health homework done, if brings it home with him... I'll send him a reminder later this afternoon, so he doesn't forget.
> 
> *WWotMW:* Best of luck w/S15 & the homework... I have been texting him reminders (as well as giving him verbal reminders) all week... he has about 20% of the one due Friday done after =6 hours of "working" on it this week. He is mad at me for grounding him from tv/movies/games btw


S15 had a 9 page study guide to complete. He'd been working all week on it and had only gotten 3 pages done... In the last two hours, he's finished all the rest of it.

You guys will laugh when I tell you how I got him moving along on it... 

I noticed he was having trouble when I saw him staring at the same page for about 5 minutes. And when I looked closer, the page he was looking at had nothing to do with the question he was trying to answer.

I told him to think about it the same way a Stormtrooper on a search-and-destroy mission would think about finding his target, if he knew what his target was, but not where...

:BoomSmilie_anim:

"Find the Rebel Base!" :lol:

Which led to comparing Units in the text book to sectors in space, and Chapters with planets, etc... Narrowing down the possibilities using titles and headers, until he only had to search through a few paragraphs to find the answer, instead of dozens of pages.

He burned through that homework in no time, and was cheering himself on every time he finished a page... 

He'd find an answer to a question, and I'd hear him saying things like, "Target acquired... You may fire at will... *BLAM!*"

:smthumbup:

It was pretty awesome in a ridiculously geeky sort of way.


----------



## just got it 55

Peebs You really know your boy

Nice job Papa Peebs and for your son as well

55


----------



## angelpixie

just got it 55 said:


> Peebs You really know your boy


^^This. If his mother knew him better, she could have helped him to achieve this, too. Although, admittedly, I'm sure it wouldn't have used the same frame of reference, and therefore would not have been as awesome. :smthumbup:

I just get sad for kids like Pbar's and Soca's and Z's, who have such selfish, immature moms. They are too stupid to see how much they're missing. And for what? issed: I'm just glad they all have such fantastic dads.


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



angelpixie said:


> ^^This. If his mother knew him better, she could have helped him to achieve this, too. Although, admittedly, I'm sure it wouldn't have used the same frame of reference, and therefore would not have been as awesome. :smthumbup:
> 
> I just get sad for kids like Pbar's and Soca's and Z's, who have such selfish, immature moms. They are too stupid to see how much they're missing. And for what? issed: I'm just glad they all have such fantastic dads.


Well said!!

Experienced a selfish mother IRL last night. Hung out with a gf who has been really absorbed in her new relationship. One of her kids was doing homework...frustrated, she gets frustrated and just yells at him the entire time pretty much about how he needs to think straight and do his homework. ....to just do it...raised angry voice...eventually saying "fine i don't care go to your room I don't care if you fail"...he eventually did just finish it but man..the verbel lashing was making me very uncomfortable. When she wasnt nearby I would ask him questions about the problem he was working on or if he completed one let him know what a good job he was doing. He really lit up and just seemed to try harder. Made me sad that so little effort was needed to make him try...she couldn't even have a little bit of patience to help him out. He is always missing assignments. He is 8.


----------



## angelpixie

Ohhh, Vi. That poor little boy. I'm glad he had you there at least for last night, though.


----------



## Pbartender

Just about ready for Round 2 tomorrow...

_"The tactical result of an engagement forms the base for new strategic decisions because victory or defeat in a battle changes the situation to such a degree that no human acumen is able to see beyond the first battle. In this sense one should understand Napoleon's saying: 'I have never had a plan of operations.' Therefore no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force."_ *- Field Marshall Helmuth Carl Bernard Graf von Moltke*

I did okay last time, but I could have done better. I noticed that the judge is less concerned with documented evidence, and more interested in personal testimonials. For our judge, the actual evidence is only there to back up the testimony.

So...

I will still have my proof and evidence handy, but will also have an outline and notes for presenting my case verbally... a timeline of events, brief explanations of the circumstances, and several lines of questioning I can use against the WWotMW.


----------



## Conrad

Pbartender said:


> Just about ready for Round 2 tomorrow...
> 
> _"The tactical result of an engagement forms the base for new strategic decisions because victory or defeat in a battle changes the situation to such a degree that no human acumen is able to see beyond the first battle. In this sense one should understand Napoleon's saying: 'I have never had a plan of operations.' Therefore no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force."_ *- Field Marshall Helmuth Carl Bernard Graf von Moltke*
> 
> I did okay last time, but I could have done better. I noticed that the judge is less concerned with documented evidence, and more interested in personal testimonials. For our judge, the actual evidence is only there to back up the testimony.
> 
> So...
> 
> I will still have my proof and evidence handy, but will also have an outline and notes for presenting my case verbally... a timeline of events, brief explanations of the circumstances, and several lines of questioning I can use against the WWotMW.


Lock-n-Load

This 50k thing works for everyone - including judges.


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> Just about ready for Round 2 tomorrow...
> 
> _"The tactical result of an engagement forms the base for new strategic decisions because victory or defeat in a battle changes the situation to such a degree that no human acumen is able to see beyond the first battle. In this sense one should understand Napoleon's saying: 'I have never had a plan of operations.' Therefore no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force."_ *- Field Marshall Helmuth Carl Bernard Graf von Moltke*
> 
> I did okay last time, but I could have done better. I noticed that the judge is less concerned with documented evidence, and more interested in personal testimonials. For our judge, the actual evidence is only there to back up the testimony.
> 
> So...
> 
> I will still have my proof and evidence handy, but will also have an outline and notes for presenting my case verbally... a timeline of events, brief explanations of the circumstances, and several lines of questioning I can use against the WWotMW.


Peebs If you hadn't credited Field Marshall Helmuth Carl Bernard Graf von Moltke[/B] in the first paragraph I would have thought they were your words


----------



## angelpixie

just got it 55 said:


> Peebs If you haddn't credited Field Marshall Helmuth Carl Bernard Graf von Moltke in the first paragraph I would have thought they were your words


:iagree:


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> So...
> 
> I will still have my proof and evidence handy, but will also have an outline and notes for presenting my case verbally... a timeline of events, brief explanations of the circumstances, and several lines of questioning I can use against the WWotMW.


And hopefully, the judge will be treated to WWotMW's stellar communication skills, especially when confronted with things that make her uncomfortable. Then maybe the judge will understand that previous communication problems were hers and not yours (plural).


----------



## Pbartender

just got it 55 said:


> Peebs If you haddn't credited Field Marshall Helmuth Carl Bernard Graf von Moltke[/B] in the first paragraph I would have thought they were your words





angelpixie said:


> :iagree:


You flatter me...  Not that I mind.

It's really just a fancy way of saying, "Improvise, Adapt and Overcome".

I would not have been quite so eloquent, in either English or German.


----------



## Pluto2

:iagree::iagree:


----------



## angelpixie

Well, tbh, nothing sounds really eloquent in German.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Well, tbh, nothing sounds really eloquent in German.


Then you've never properly heard German...

Die Entführung aus dem Serail


----------



## vi_bride04

I love German accents and the language. I don't know why, but man it is DAMN SEXY! Its just so manly, IMO. mmmmmm


----------



## LongWalk

Was in Berlin recently. Fun town.

Pbar,

Keep it up.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## angelpixie

vi_bride04 said:


> I love German accents and the language. I don't know why, but man it is DAMN SEXY! *Its just so manly, IMO.* mmmmmm



I know, right? I mean, just listen to that Angela Merkel.   

(I kid. btw, I took two years of German in h.s. I know from whence ich spreche  )


----------



## Pbartender

Back from court.

The judge dropped the charges for the "shared expenses" and the account info garbage because there was nothing in the MSA with regards to either, but...

The WWotMW lied about the mortgage payment and shamelessly cried in front of the judge. The judge glanced at the payment history and bill stub proving I paid my half of that last mortgage, and then charged me with contempt of court and ordered me to pay half a mortgage payment that I'd already paid... and that I can't afford to pay.

That's a lesson to the ladies out there... I guess our justice system hasn't come quite as far as I'd hoped with regards to family law.


----------



## Jellybeans

UGH. Sorry to hear that, Pbar.  

Try to see the silver lining--soon you will be divorced from her. Consider this another step in the process to get there.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Ugh


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> Try to see the silver lining--soon you will be divorced from her.


I was already divorced from her *4 MONTHS AGO*!

Some silver lining.


----------



## Why Not Be Happy?

think you need your lawyer.


----------



## Pbartender

Why Not Be Happy? said:


> think you need your lawyer.


I doubt it would have turned out differently... And his services would have cost upwards of a $1000 for it.


----------



## Conrad

Pbartender said:


> I doubt it would have turned out differently... And his services would have cost upwards of a $1000 for it.


What's the appeal process? Is there one?


----------



## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> I was already divorced from her *4 MONTHS AGO*!
> 
> Some silver lining.


Oh my bad. And yes, that IS a silver lining.


----------



## angelpixie

This is fvcking unreal. She has a history of lying on sworn statements (by not telling the court that she voluntarily took a demotion before the D). You have stubs showing you paid. 

I just can't believe there is nothing that can be done to her legally -- and by that I mean both through the legal system, and also that won't get you thrown in prison, Pbar. 

This is just so odd. This is the same judge you've had, right?


----------



## Nucking Futs

You can't appeal it until you're sanctioned for it, and being required to pay that bill is not considered a sanction. You'll need to refuse to pay it so the judge fines you or orders jail time before you can appeal the decision.


----------



## Pbartender

Conrad said:


> What's the appeal process? Is there one?


It's a court order... I pay it, or she can take me back to court and have me held in contempt.



angelpixie said:


> She has a history of lying on sworn statements (by not telling the court that she voluntarily took a demotion before the D).


In the eyes of the court, no she doesn't, really...


----------



## Pbartender

Mmmmm... Lemons.


----------



## Pluto2

File a motion for reconsideration based on an error of fact, attach your payment documentation.


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> File a motion for reconsideration based on an error of fact, attach your payment documentation.


I can look into it, but I doubt it'd go over well... We'd already gotten the "wasted time" speech twice... And I'm running out of vacation time to take off of work for courts dates.


----------



## vi_bride04

This makes me want to drop the contempt charge from my ex....ugh


----------



## Conrad

Pbar,

At least your eyes were wide open when you assumed this sort of risk associated with the house.


----------



## Pluto2

FYI, they usually must be filed within ten days and can allow a court to correct an error without an additional hearing-something family court judges like.


----------



## Pbartender

Conrad said:


> Pbar,
> 
> At least your eyes were wide open when you assumed this sort of risk associated with the house.


Furthermore, she's quickly running out of excuses she can use to blame me for her problems.

Though, I suspect she may try to get a modification to increase child support... With regards to the "shared expenses", she kept trying to argue that "there was an understanding" and that we "had a verbal agreement" to split those expenses.

In other words... she signed something she never bothered to read.


----------



## angelpixie

Which is her problem, not yours, obviously. Why is the court (i.e., this judge) overlooking her knowingly filing false statements (the business with the voluntary demotion she neglected to tell even her own lawyers, IIRC), and blatant disregard of written agreements you both have signed, in favor of believing her that you had a 'verbal' agreement? Something of which she has ZERO proof. And how can she justify overlooking your actual, real payment stubs in favor of mere words, even if they were delivered through tears? FFS. As a fellow female, both of them embarrass the hell out of me.

And seriously, if the judge was paid what an average person was paid, they might have a little more sympathy towards the importance these hearings have to the 'little people.' A few hundred dollars is real money. The whole 'wasting time' thing is bullshet, too. That's what the courts are there for: making sure laws are followed and legal agreements are enforced. 

Justice was not only blind in this case, but deaf and dumb, too, obviously.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Which is her problem, not yours, obviously. Why is the court (i.e., this judge) overlooking her knowingly filing false statements (the business with the voluntary demotion she neglected to tell even her own lawyers, IIRC), and blatant disregard of written agreements you both have signed, in favor of believing her that you had a 'verbal' agreement? Something of which she has ZERO proof.


That, at least, the judge didn't fall for... The judge simply asked her if there was an order requiring me to pay those expenses. X could only answer "no".



angelpixie said:


> And how can she justify overlooking your actual, real payment stubs in favor of mere words, even if they were delivered through tears? FFS. As a fellow female, both of them embarrass the hell out of me.


This is the one that bothers me... The documents were given only a cursory glance, and no real consideration.

Unfortunately, even if I were to file a Motion for Reconsideration, as Pluto suggests, "The decision to grant or deny a motion to reconsider lies within the trial court's discretion." And given the judge's attitude, I doubt she'd be amenable to me pushing the matter any further.

That said, as much as the injustice of the ruling bothers me, I'd call today mostly a draw... but leaning my way just a little.

The half mortgage payment sucks, but I can find a way to deal with it, and once it's paid it's done.

Not having to pay for the health insurance and cell phone bill is a financially equal, but longer lasting victory than the half mortgage payment is a loss.


----------



## Pbartender

On the other hand, I think there was much more subtle victory than simply a few hundred dollars changing hands back and forth. In the last week...

*Me:* FYI... S15 finish his study guide packet, but left his binder at school. Do you know what the two late assignments are, and how long he has to turn them in?

*WWotMW:* I have never seen them, but his teacher referred to them as study guides, so I assume they are similar to the one he has & I don't know how long he has, just that he can get partial credit if he turns them in (I would assume that sooner would be better, most likely they would need to be turned in before winter break)

*Me:* Gotcha... Thanks.

*Me:* I would like to take the kids for some breakfast and shopping Sunday morning while you're working... Would you prefer I picked them up early Sunday morning or late Saturday evening?

*WWotMW:* Early Sunday, please have them back home by 1.

*WWotMW:* Also, I am pretty sure that D14 has my cell phone charger, can you please remind her to bring with her when you drop them off Saturday? Thanks

*Me:* D14 says she doesn't have it.

*WWotMW:* Can you ask her wear she put it? She had it yesterday & now it is missing...

*Me:* "Near the brown couch."

*WWotMW:* LOL... looked there already. I will check again, thanks for your help

*Me:* Do you know what your work schedule will be like during the kids' Christmas break?

*WWotMW:* I think my extra day off is tuesday... I'll double check.

*Me:* I need to go to work. Can you please mail me my copy of the court order?

*WWotMW:* I can mail it.

*Me:* Thank you.

*Me:* S15's lunch account is out of money. I can't afford it this week. Can you please deposit some money into his account?

*WWotMW:* If you can send me the login name & password for David's account I can put money into his lunch account this week



And sure enough, yesterday she added enough money into both D14 and S15 lunch accounts to last them for the next month.

I think the combination of the judge's lecture about better communication, and my printed transcripts of our text messages demonstrating her reluctance to communicate and cooperate might have gotten through just a little bit.

:smthumbup:


----------



## Pluto2

Hey, you take your victories where you can find them, and better (any) communication that helps the kidlets is always a good thing!


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> Hey, you take your victories where you can find them, and better (any) communication that helps the kidlets is always a good thing!


If the habit sticks, I'd consider it a far more meaningful victory than any of the others concerning money.

_"The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom."_ *- Sun Tzu*


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> On the other hand, I think there was much more subtle victory than simply a few hundred dollars changing hands back and forth. In the last week...
> 
> *Me:* FYI... S15 finish his study guide packet, but left his binder at school. Do you know what the two late assignments are, and how long he has to turn them in?
> 
> *WWotMW:* I have never seen them, but his teacher referred to them as study guides, so I assume they are similar to the one he has & I don't know how long he has, just that he can get partial credit if he turns them in (I would assume that sooner would be better, most likely they would need to be turned in before winter break)
> 
> *Me:* Gotcha... Thanks.
> 
> *Me:* I would like to take the kids for some breakfast and shopping Sunday morning while you're working... Would you prefer I picked them up early Sunday morning or late Saturday evening?
> 
> *WWotMW:* Early Sunday, please have them back home by 1.
> 
> *WWotMW:* Also, I am pretty sure that D14 has my cell phone charger, can you please remind her to bring with her when you drop them off Saturday? Thanks
> 
> *Me:* D14 says she doesn't have it.
> 
> *WWotMW:* Can you ask her wear she put it? She had it yesterday & now it is missing...
> 
> *Me:* "Near the brown couch."
> 
> *WWotMW:* LOL... looked there already. I will check again, thanks for your help
> 
> *Me:* Do you know what your work schedule will be like during the kids' Christmas break?
> 
> *WWotMW:* I think my extra day off is tuesday... I'll double check.
> 
> *Me:* I need to go to work. Can you please mail me my copy of the court order?
> 
> *WWotMW:* I can mail it.
> 
> *Me:* Thank you.
> 
> *Me:*  S15's lunch account is out of money. I can't afford it this week. Can you please deposit some money into his account?
> 
> *WWotMW:* If you can send me the login name & password for David's account I can put money into his lunch account this week
> 
> 
> 
> And sure enough, yesterday she added enough money into both D14 and S15 lunch accounts to last them for the next month.
> 
> I think the combination of the judge's lecture about better communication, and my printed transcripts of our text messages demonstrating her reluctance to communicate and cooperate might have gotten through just a little bit.
> 
> :smthumbup:


We in fact do train people how to treat us

alot of people here are in for retraining

Peebs can you lead the way ?

Conrad could help write the course synopsis


----------



## Pbartender

So far, so good...


*Me:* For next week: I only work a half day next Tuesday, and I have Wed, Thu and Fri off so I can be with the kids. Would it be okay if we swapped the weekend of 12/28-12/29 with the weekend of 1/4-1/5?

*WWotMW:* I will be home Tuesday and have plans with them that day (it is Christmas Eve) but trading weekends will work for me. Maybe we can switch a weekend in march as well (I have concert tickets for march 8 and I think that it would be my weekend with the kids)

*WWotMW:* Also, I put $35 into S15's lunch account and $15 into D13's.

*Me:* Thank you.

*Me:* March shouldn't be a problem... Though, the 15th is the next [Local D&D Mini-Con] and the kids wanted come along with me again. We can figure it out, when it gets closer.


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> So far, so good...
> 
> 
> *Me:* For next week: I only work a half day next Tuesday, and I have Wed, Thu and Fri off so I can be with the kids. Would it be okay if we swapped the weekend of 12/28-12/29 with the weekend of 1/4-1/5?
> 
> *WWotMW:* I will be home Tuesday and have plans with them that day (it is Christmas Eve) but trading weekends will work for me. Maybe we can switch a weekend in march as well (I have concert tickets for march 8 and I think that it would be my weekend with the kids)
> 
> *WWotMW:* Also, I put $35 into S15's lunch account and $15 into D13's.
> 
> *Me:* Thank you.
> 
> *Me:* March shouldn't be a problem... Though, the 15th is the next [Local D&D Mini-Con] and the kids wanted come along with me again. We can figure it out, when it gets closer.


Peebs who is learning you or her ?


----------



## Pbartender

just got it 55 said:


> Peebs who is learning you or her ?


A little bit of both, I should hope.


----------



## Ceegee

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



Pbartender said:


> A little bit of both, I should hope.


And the rest of us.


----------



## bravenewworld

Pbartender said:


> _"The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom."_ *- Sun Tzu*


Great quote. After we agreed on the settlement details, my ex said he would only pay a portion of my attorney fees if I allowed him to redraft the paperwork so he could be the plaintiff and "divorce me." 

My response? "Um, we still get divorced right?" 

It's a big realization that sometimes you have to check your ego to get the results you want - especially when dealing with unreasonable people.


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> A little bit of both, I should hope.


Clearly and you can pat yourself on the back

It's not as easy as it seems

55


----------



## vi_bride04

Merry Christmas Pb!


----------



## Pbartender

Thanks, Vi.

Christmas and New Year's break has been generally good... I'll leave it at that. Instead, this morning I was looking back at some of my old threads and posts from about a year ago.

At that time, the WWotMW and I had been in-house separated for almost 8 months. She wasn't paying bills, wasn't working to either reconcile or to complete the split, and had been actively hunting up a new boyfriend but hadn't quite caught one yet.

I was nearing the end of my patience with delays. I had already given her a first draft of an MSA and JPA to look over, and she had suddenly gone from amicable to extremely adversarial. I was fast losing my last shreds of hope that things could be worked out, and was really starting to accept the inevitability of the divorce and to plan ahead and truly stand up for myself...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...get-better-me-but-its-okay-2.html#post1344336

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/65133-moving-out-kids-living-arrangements.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...micable-50-50-sorry-no-now-she-wants-all.html

Wow.

It's been a looooong year.


----------



## Ceegee

*Re: Re: No Holds Pbarred...*



Pbartender said:


> Thanks, Vi.
> 
> Christmas and New Year's break has been generally good... I'll leave it at that. Instead, this morning I was looking back at some of my old threads and posts from about a year ago.
> 
> At that time, the WWotMW and I had been in-house separated for almost 8 months. She wasn't paying bills, wasn't working to either reconcile or to complete the split, and had been actively hunting up a new boyfriend but hadn't quite caught one yet.
> 
> I was nearing the end of my patience with delays. I had already given her a first draft of an MSA and JPA to look over, and she had suddenly gone from amicable to extremely adversarial. I was fast losing my last shreds of hope that things could be worked out, and was really starting to accept the inevitability of the divorce and to plan ahead and truly stand up for myself...
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...get-better-me-but-its-okay-2.html#post1344336
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/65133-moving-out-kids-living-arrangements.html
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...micable-50-50-sorry-no-now-she-wants-all.html
> 
> Wow.
> 
> It's been a looooong year.


It's been a long year for all of us.

Hard to imagine you at the point of just accepting. You've come so far. 

Here's to continued growth, learning and understanding...


----------



## Pbartender

An amusing anecdote...

In the last week and a half or so, we've gotten a fair bit of snow here... At least a foot or so overall. The last few times I dropped the kids off at X's house, the driveway wasn't shoveled. For the last week, I had to let them out by the curb, because my car almost got stuck in the snow on the driveway.

This morning, I drop them off again, and this the driveway is finally shoveled, but...

Only the half of the driveway that her Roommate uses. X's car is still parked on a foot of snow.

:rofl:


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> An amusing anecdote...
> 
> In the last week and a half or so, we've gotten a fair bit of snow here... At least a foot or so overall. The last few times I dropped the kids off at X's house, the driveway wasn't shoveled. For the last week, I had to let them out by the curb, because my car almost got stuck in the snow on the driveway.
> 
> This morning, I drop them off again, and this the driveway is finally shoveled, but...
> 
> Only the half of the driveway that her Roommate uses. X's car is still parked on a foot of snow.
> 
> :rofl:


All the while she is thinking

When is Peebs coming to shovel me out


----------



## Pbartender

just got it 55 said:


> All the while she is thinking
> 
> When is Peebs coming to shovel me out


I think it more likely at this point that she's hoping Lucky Charms will come dig it out... Of course, she's have to give him a ride to her house, first. 

She'll probably make the kids do it for her. 

Or, as usual, she'll just ignore it until she can't get her car out of the driveway, and then call in sick to work.

Weather service says we're due to get another 8-10" of snow tonight.


----------



## LongWalk

Who is Lucky Charms?


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> Who is Lucky Charms?


I thought it was Bullwinkles OM. Or Frostines, to be more accurate.


----------



## Pbartender

LongWalk said:


> Who is Lucky Charms?


posOM...

He's the boyfriend with a part-time job at the same store she works at. He hasn't had a driver's license for nearly three years due to a DUI and he hasn't bothered to take the test to get it back, so she drives him everywhere. He lives in his parents' basement, so that he can "be Irish for a while"... which is how he earned the nickname.


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> posOM...
> 
> He's the boyfriend with a part-time job at the same store she works at. He hasn't had a driver's license for nearly three years due to a DUI and he hasn't bothered to take the test to get it back, so she drives him everywhere. He lives in his parents' basement, so that he can "be Irish for a while"... which is how he earned the nickname.


Your XW confounds me PB. 

Her mate selection makes no sense to me. 

Not that WW selections ever really do but yours is particularly peculiar.


----------



## just got it 55

Ceegee said:


> Your XW confounds me PB.
> 
> Her mate selection makes no sense to me.
> 
> Not that WW selections ever really do but yours is particularly peculiar.


I bet she subconsciously picked someone subordinate to her so she can control/bully the poor stupid ba….stard

55


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> Your XW confounds me PB.
> 
> Her mate selection makes no sense to me.
> 
> Not that WW selections ever really do but yours is particularly peculiar.


It's not so crazy when you think about it...

First, you have to realize that he was something like her fourth or fifth choice. She had a whole list of guys she was interested in, men she had previously been having EAs with, and when she started going down the list making offers, he was first who accepted.

Second, by comparison he makes her look more responsible, intelligent, competent, successful, independent, etc... He makes her feel better about her self, because she marginally superior to him in most ways.

Third, the living arrangements mean he's not around all the time, which makes it easier to hide her faults and mistakes from him. She can have her fun with him, and then send him back home to his parents.

Fourth, unlike the others on the list, neither he nor his family has ever met me... They've only ever heard her side of the story, and they believe it.

Finally, he's stuck with her for almost a year... And likely will continue to stick with her, until she goads him into doing something that she can use as an excuse to dump him.


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> It's not so crazy when you think about it...
> 
> First, you have to realize that he was something like her fourth or fifth choice. She had a whole list of guys she was interested in, men she had previously been having EAs with, and when she started going down the list making offers, he was first who accepted.
> 
> Second, by comparison he makes her look more responsible, intelligent, competent, successful, independent, etc... He makes her feel better about her self, because she marginally superior to him in most ways.
> 
> Third, the living arrangements mean he's not around all the time, which makes it easier to hide her faults and mistakes from him. She can have her fun with him, and then send him back home to his parents.
> 
> Fourth, unlike the others on the list, neither he nor his family has ever met me... They've only ever heard her side of the story, and they believe it.
> 
> Finally, he's stuck with her for almost a year... And likely will continue to stick with her, until she goads him into doing something that she can use as an excuse to dump him.


Pathetic I played Baseball ,Tennis ,and Hockey

I always wanted to play with/against better opponents 

Professionally I always wanted to work with smarter people / colleagues

Both in an effort to raise my game/performance 

This is how I measure my growth all areas in life

How do I measure up to others and what I need to do to improve

55


----------



## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> It's not so crazy when you think about it...
> 
> First, you have to realize that he was something like her fourth or fifth choice. She had a whole list of guys she was interested in, men she had previously been having EAs with, and when she started going down the list making offers, he was first who accepted.
> 
> Second, by comparison he makes her look more responsible, intelligent, competent, successful, independent, etc... He makes her feel better about her self, because she marginally superior to him in most ways.
> 
> Third, the living arrangements mean he's not around all the time, which makes it easier to hide her faults and mistakes from him. She can have her fun with him, and then send him back home to his parents.
> 
> Fourth, unlike the others on the list, neither he nor his family has ever met me... They've only ever heard her side of the story, and they believe it.
> 
> Finally, he's stuck with her for almost a year... And likely will continue to stick with her, until she goads him into doing something that she can use as an excuse to dump him.


All certainly true. 

However, she seems to have chosen a child. Someone that demands her time and attention. This is usually someone a wayward would have a fling with not a relationship. 

You know better than I.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Ceegee said:


> This is usually someone a wayward would have a fling with not a relationship..


The duration of a 'fling' is all relative is it not? Which is why they end after a few years or they continue on for longer and drag out.


----------



## angelpixie

Well, is she actually taking care of him (aside from driving him places)? He does have a (part-time) job, his parents are providing room and board. So it does seem like a dating relationship, albeit more like one where the senior girl with the driver's license is dating the sophomore who doesn't have one yet. Or maybe a college freshman (since she's not living with her parents, either). He is indeed 'Lucky' -- he's found someone who's not challenging his status quo, just as he's not challenging hers. Ain't 'love' grand?


----------



## just got it 55

angelpixie said:


> Well, is she actually taking care of him (aside from driving him places)? He does have a (part-time) job, his parents are providing room and board. So it does seem like a dating relationship, albeit more like one where the senior girl with the driver's license is dating the sophomore who doesn't have one yet. Or maybe a college freshman (since she's not living with her parents, either). He is indeed 'Lucky' -- he's found someone who's not challenging his status quo, just as he's not challenging hers. *Ain't 'love' grand?*


Apparently in this case blinding


----------



## just got it 55

angelpixie said:


> Well, is she actually taking care of him (aside from driving him places)? He does have a (part-time) job, his parents are providing room and board. So it does seem like a dating relationship, albeit more like one where the senior girl with the driver's license is dating the sophomore who doesn't have one yet. Or maybe a college freshman (since she's not living with her parents, either). He is indeed 'Lucky' -- he's found someone who's not challenging his status quo, just as he's not challenging hers. *Ain't 'love' grand?*


Apparently in this case blinding

And her "friends" tell her he is an upgrade


----------



## Pbartender

Okay, everybody, give me your opinion on something I'm considering...

Soon, the mortgage will be a problem again.

Under the threat of the previous Petition, the WWotMW found enough money to catch up on the mortgage at that time. However, she hasn't paid since then. She is now almost two months late again. By the end of the month, she will owe roughly $4500 -- again -- and will be within weeks of the lender initiating foreclosure procedures.

In addition, she has a little more than a month to make her first attempt at refinancing. To my knowledge, she hasn't.

I don't think she realizes I know this... As soon as I gave her the login information for the online account, she changed the password and refused to give it to me. Fortunately, I can always call up the customer service number, and while they are limited in the ways they can help, they are thoroughly understanding of the situation and a weekly call still keeps me up to date on the account.

If foreclosure threatens, I'll go back to the judge and ask for a modification to have the house sold immediately. But that's not what I need an opinion on...

I also don't think Roommate knows what's going on with the house and the mortgage. I am considering getting in contact with her some time in the next few weeks, and informing her that the WWotMW hasn't been paying the mortgage and that the house is in danger of being foreclosed on.

Whaddya guys think?


----------



## just got it 55

Forclosure will still effect your credit ?


----------



## Pbartender

just got it 55 said:


> Forclosure will still effect your credit ?


Until X refinances me off the mortgage... Yes.


----------



## Pluto2

Unless you have some separate relationship with the roommate this has the potential to totally explode in your face. Are you considering this because you are a nice guy?


----------



## Tron

Pbartender said:


> I also don't think Roommate knows what's going on with the house and the mortgage. I am considering getting in contact with her some time in the next few weeks, and informing her that the WWotMW hasn't been paying the mortgage and that the house is in danger of being foreclosed on.
> 
> Whaddya guys think?


Why? 

It isn't roommate's problem to fix, it is the WWotMW's. Do you think the roommate is going to bail your ex out? ...maybe once...

I suggest you stay out of it. 

The house going up for sale is just a matter of time. You knew this when you agreed to the deal with the ex.

Be ready.


----------



## angelpixie

If I was the roommate, I'd want to know -- especially as I'll probably need to be finding another place to live, packing, etc. And I'd probably also be curious as to how this was happening, if I'm paying rent, and WWotMW is working. :wtf:

But why do *you* feel you want to tell the roommate? What's your reasoning?


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> Unless you have some separate relationship with the roommate this has the potential to totally explode in your face.


Absolutely, which is why I'm here running it past a bunch of Devil's Advocates before I actually decide to do it.





Tron said:


> It isn't roommate's problem to fix, it is the WWotMW's.


Well, in a big way, it is the Roommate's problem. If the house is foreclosed on or put up for sale, she and her daughters must find a new home.



Tron said:


> Do you think the roommate is going to bail your ex out? ...maybe once...


Nope. I'm under no delusion that it will change the outcome.



Tron said:


> The house going up for sale is just a matter of time. You knew this when you agreed to the deal with the ex.
> 
> Be ready.


It is. I did. I am.



Pluto2 said:


> Are you considering this because you are a nice guy?


No.



Tron said:


> Why?





angelpixie said:


> But why do *you* feel you want to tell the roommate? What's your reasoning?


Exposure.

The WWotMW has had an almost EA-like relationship with Roommate for a very long time. They moved in together, because they are BFFs and thought that because they were such good friends at work, then living together would be a bed of roses. Up until now, and largely because of the WWotMW's deceptions, they've been living together in a sort of honeymoon state.

The driveway shoveling incident I mentioned earlier I take as evidence of a miniscule crack in that grand delusion. Exposing the WWotMW's inaction with regards to the mortgage, I think, would be akin to hitting that crack with a sledgehammer.

Just like when we expose infidelity to friends, family and coworkers in an effort to kill the euphoria and break the fog... I'm hoping that exposing her gross financial irresponsibility might serve the same purpose, at least in some small way.


----------



## angelpixie

Are you worried that doing this will create a backlash, since you're still going to have to deal with her on lunch money, first refusal, and other issues?


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Are you worried that doing this will create a backlash, since you're still going to have to deal with her on lunch money, first refusal, and other issues?


It's strange... I'm fully aware that it likely would create some sort of backlash. But I'm not sure if I'm really _worried_ about it... Right now, I'm not even sure if I _should_ be worried about it.

:scratchhead:


----------



## 06Daddio08

Let me see if I understand this correctly;

Your ex is late on payments again and has a roommate living there as well? If so ... it's really none of your business and some of the reasons for getting involved don't sound like good ones at all.

Protect your credit, but don't go sticking your nose in others business.


----------



## vi_bride04

I think if you stay out of the roommate situation its going to expose itsself eventually. And IMO, the fallout will be worse between WWotMW and her friend if you just let everything play out and not get involved.

I think if you mention something, I think it will just create un-needed drama. Although I do have to say, it would be hard for me in a similar situation to keep my mouth shut to the roommate. But my motivation would be somewhat vindictive.


----------



## Pbartender

Fair enough, guys.

I'm not going to completely take the option off the table for now, but I'm definitely putting it at the very bottom of my stack of tricks.


----------



## Tron

Pbartender said:


> my stack of tricks.


Do not like.


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> Well, in a big way, it is the Roommate's problem. If the house is foreclosed on or put up for sale, she and her daughters must find a new home.
> 
> ...
> 
> Exposure.
> 
> The WWotMW has had an almost EA-like relationship with Roommate for a very long time. They moved in together, because they are BFFs and thought that because they were such good friends at work, then living together would be a bed of roses. Up until now, and largely because of the WWotMW's deceptions, they've been living together in a sort of honeymoon state.
> 
> The driveway shoveling incident I mentioned earlier I take as evidence of a miniscule crack in that grand delusion. Exposing the WWotMW's inaction with regards to the mortgage, I think, would be akin to hitting that crack with a sledgehammer.
> 
> Just like when we expose infidelity to friends, family and coworkers in an effort to kill the euphoria and break the fog... I'm hoping that exposing her gross financial irresponsibility might serve the same purpose, at least in some small way.


One reason we expose infidelity is to try to stop the affair and work on saving the marriage. Another reason would be to save our own reputations from the crap that will be spread about us as leading our waywards to have their affairs. 

But once the divorce is over, what purpose does exposure serve that is *positive* for *your* life? Yes, it might break the fog and 'break them up.' I said what I did about giving the roommate a heads up before I knew about the EA-like relationship they have. Now, I've changed my mind. It's up to the roommate to take care of herself. And Vi is right: the friendship will break on its own -- the driveway incident seems to be an indicator of that. 

It's tempting, but let it go. Don't put yourself in the path of the karma bus that is already barreling down on the two of them.


----------



## Pbartender

Tron said:


> Do not like.




A poor choice of words, perhaps.

It only means that when impeding trouble looms, I tend to plan ahead for eventualities, and keep in mind a wide variety of strategies for dealing with circumstances so that I'm not caught off-guard when they arise.


----------



## angelpixie

That sounds much less sinister. :smthumbup:


----------



## Tron

angelpixie said:


> It's tempting, but let it go. Don't put yourself in the path of the karma bus that is already barreling down on the two of them.


True dat! 

Her financial situation is precarious and she is circling the drain. You don't need to do a single thing to move that along. Just sit back and enjoy the show. Or better yet, ignore it and her altogether...

You have a life to live.


----------



## Tron

Pbartender said:


> A poor choice of words, perhaps.
> 
> It only means that impeding trouble looms, I tend to plan ahead for eventualities, and keep in mind a wide variety of strategies for dealing with circumstances so that I'm not caught off-guard when they arise.


Perhaps a poor choice of words, perhaps a subconscious desire for something more...

Let the petty $hit go. It's time.

Try out some new recipes.

Enjoy your kids. 

Find another woman. Or several.


----------



## Pbartender

Tron... Trust me when I say that I'm not spending nearly as much time dwelling on this as you seem to think.

It was simply a tempting thought that had popped into my head, and I wanted a few second opinions before I decided what to do with it.


----------



## Pbartender

Tron said:


> Her financial situation is precarious and she is circling the drain. You don't need to do a single thing to move that along. Just sit back and enjoy the show. Or better yet, ignore it and her altogether...


It's worse than we thought.

Remember this?



Tron said:


> Oh... An interesting anecdote...
> 
> The WWotMW didn't show up right away. Her lawyer, however, was there. While I sitting in the court room, waiting for our case to be called and listening to the other proceedings, he noticed me, smiled, and gave me a little wave. He came over, said hello, told me the WWotMW was having car trouble and would be late, let me know that he was there on another matter, assured me that he wasn't representing her today, and then wished me luck.


Well, I found out what the "another matter" was today.

The WWotMW was supposed to mail me a copy of the last court order... The one that says I'm supposed to pay her $750.

She didn't. I asked about it again. She said she left it lying in her car and would mail it. I finally got it today... And it's the wrong one. She instead sent me the court order that says she had to pay for the shared expenses she owed me.

So, I let her know it was the wrong one and asked her to send me the right one. In the meantime, I poked around the County Clerk's website to see if I could find any records of the order there.

I didn't find the court order, but while I was looking through the case history of our divorce, I noticed two things...

First, that there's no record of a court order requiring me to pay her $750 being entered. The WWotMW wrote up the order, and the judge told her to come back after lunch so it could be signed and filed. I wonder if she never bothered to come back?

Second, that day he wished me luck, her lawyer was filing an Order for Payment against the WWotMW... which the judge granted. She owes him at least $3500, and has now been court ordered to pay it to him.

So... She isn't paying the mortgage and foreclosure looms. She hasn't paid her lawyer and he's started legal proceedings to collect. She's behind on most of her bills. She has to pay the shared expenses she was dodging. She isn't getting money out of me for the expenses I'm not responsible for. She's only getting a fifth of the child support she expected. She voluntarily took a 30% pay cut. And her credit rating is in the toilet.

And yet, if what the kids say is true... She spent nearly $1000 on Christmas presents for the kids, and is planning a trip to Disney World this summer.

:rofl:


----------



## Nucking Futs

Pbartender said:


> So... She isn't paying the mortgage and foreclosure looms. She hasn't paid her lawyer and he's started legal proceedings to collect. She's behind on most of her bills. She has to pay the shared expenses she was dodging. She isn't getting money out of me for the expenses I'm not responsible for. She's only getting a fifth of the child support she expected. She voluntarily took a 30% pay cut. And her credit rating is in the toilet.
> 
> And yet, if what the kids say is true... She spent nearly $1000 on Christmas presents for the kids, and is planning a trip to Disney World this summer.
> 
> :rofl:


So you're going to reconcile, right, 'cause she's such a catch and all! I mean, how could you resist?


----------



## angelpixie

To quote one of my favorite TAMers:



angelpixie said:


> Not the brightest bulb on the tree, is she?


----------



## 06Daddio08

It's like waiting for the bus and watching it just go straight past you at full speed. At first you're like "The hell?" but then you go "Ehhh, I think that was for the best anyways ..." (as you see the bus go up in flames a few blocks down).

*mushroom cloud*


----------



## ThreeStrikes

I have a feeling she's doing all of this intentionally.

She's not paying on the mortgage, and will let the house go into foreclosure. Meanwhile, she can live there for free for who knows how long (I've heard of people doing it for up to 18 mos).

She's not paying her bills. Perhaps she's planning on filing for bankruptcy? Her credit already stinks anyways.

My guess is this is her plan, although it is pretty foolish.


----------



## Pbartender

ThreeStrikes said:


> I have a feeling she's doing all of this intentionally.


Could be... in the past, she's ignored debts and from her point of view, at least, they disappeared. (They haven't actually... there's creditors still trying to track her down.)



ThreeStrikes said:


> She's not paying on the mortgage, and will let the house go into foreclosure. Meanwhile, she can live there for free for who knows how long (I've heard of people doing it for up to 18 mos).
> 
> She's not paying her bills. Perhaps she's planning on filing for bankruptcy? Her credit already stinks anyways.
> 
> My guess is this is her plan, although it is pretty foolish.


Again, could be... "Strategic Bankruptcy", for her or for me, is one situation I considered early on and shuffled into "impractically risky last resort" pile as far I was concerned.

Considering her track record, it would not be out of the realm of possibility that one of her friends suggested it to her. She's sort of doing it, but hasn't thought it through or researched the process or planned any of it out or followed through any of the proactive steps she needs to take to make it happen. She'll end outsmarting herself again.

Like I said, I'd considered the eventuality that she might file for bankruptcy. It didn't seem like a real likelihood until now. And back then, I was slated to own the house, and would have refinanced, so her bankruptcy wouldn't have affected me.

What I can do is put a lien on the house and any other property she got in the divorce... That would make me a secured creditor, and if she did file for bankruptcy, then I'd be able to repossess the house and whatever else from her.


----------



## 06Daddio08

That sounds like a plan.


----------



## Pbartender

Team Pbar advises...



> Pbar,
> 
> I have not had a chance to review your MSA in this regard, but there are protections in the MSA for you. In short, WWotMW needs to indemnify you from any damages related to the home, including any judgments against you for the foreclosure and damages to your credit. She would not be able to discharge the obligations to you in the bankruptcy.
> 
> The court will not force a sale of the home at this point and cannot modify the settlement agreement to give you the home. However if WWotMW were to agree to give you the home, and you pay the mortgage, that would be possible. Also too, if she agrees to list the home, you can do that sooner rather than later. Of course WWotMW would need to agree to either of these. Your best recourse would be to go back to court again on the Rule to Show Cause and possibly ask for some additional relief such as requiring WWotMW to enroll the mortgage payments with an automatic payment to better ensure the mortgage payments are being made. Sooner or later too, the judge will understand what is going on, especially if this is a repeated process.
> 
> Further with her recent defaults on the mortgage payments, she will not be able to refinance anytime soon. My last recollection is banks require 6 months of timely payments in order to refinance.
> 
> I am out of the office today, but if I have a chance to review your MSA and see any other loopholes to potentially force the sale of the home sooner rather than later, outside of WWotMW’s agreement, I will let you know. Best of luck.


----------



## Pluto2

I hope she will agree to transfer the house, but doubt she will. That would require action on her part.

Its great that she will have to indemnify you for any judgements against you, but speaking as someone dealing with a deadbeat dad, the right to recover and actual recovery often feel like eons apart. 
Good luck


----------



## just got it 55

Peebs I know this seems silly to suggest but ….. Wouldn’t the best possible solution be to trade your apartment for the house? Negotiate a payment plan for the past due mortgage payments?

It’s less impact on your children and possibly her roommate.

Try to put the roommate on the lease 

Are you in the position to refinance?

This keeps your credit intact and will allow you to recover your home and keep it or sell it down the road if that makes sense financially.
I know it’s out there given whom you are dealing with 

But it’s a thought

55


----------



## vi_bride04

LOL!! You might get your house back too??? 

At least she didn't abandon it (yet)


----------



## Pbartender

just got it 55 said:


> Peebs I know this seems silly to suggest but ….. Wouldn’t the best possible solution be to trade your apartment for the house? Negotiate a payment plan for the past due mortgage payments?
> 
> It’s less impact on your children and possibly her roommate.
> 
> Try to put the roommate on the lease
> 
> Are you in the position to refinance?
> 
> This keeps your credit intact and will allow you to recover your home and keep it or sell it down the road if that makes sense financially.
> I know it’s out there given whom you are dealing with


No, no, no and no. Sorry, it's nowhere near the best possible solution. Here's why:

A) An apartment lease doesn't work that way. I can't just trade it to someone else. I would have to break my lease, and X and her roommate would have to get their own lease based on their own credit. I would be out $1000 worth of security deposit.

B) If she isn't paying the mortgage or her lawyer or any of her other debts, why should I expect her to stick to a repayment plan for past due payments?

C) The house has no equity. It is 40 years old. It needs tens of thousands of dollars worth of repairs and renovations. The monthly mortgage payment is 25% more than my current rent. The utilities cost almost three times what I'm spending at the apartment.

D) I have no money for the necessary costs of refinancing. The 30 days past due that's now on my credit report because she wasn't paying the mortgage also makes refinance more difficult.

E) I don't want to move again. I hate moving.

In other words, all it does is take all of X's problems and make them mine.

No.


----------



## philglossop

Pbartender said:


> No, no, no and no. Sorry, it's nowhere near the best possible solution. Here's why:
> 
> A) An apartment lease doesn't work that way. I can't just trade it to someone else. I would have to break my lease, and X and her roommate would have to get their own lease based on their own credit. I would be out $1000 worth of security deposit.
> 
> B) If she isn't paying the mortgage or her lawyer or any of her other debts, why should I expect her to stick to a repayment plan for past due payments?
> 
> C) The house has no equity. It is 40 years old. It needs tens of thousands of dollars worth of repairs and renovations. The monthly mortgage payment is 25% more than my current rent. The utilities cost almost three times what I'm spending at the apartment.
> 
> D) I have no money for the necessary costs of refinancing. The 30 days past due that's now on my credit report because she wasn't paying the mortgage also makes refinance more difficult.
> 
> E) I don't want to move again. I hate moving.
> 
> In other words, all it does is take all of X's problems and make them mine.
> 
> No.


But I bet it's crossed her mind more than once..........


----------



## just got it 55

Pbartender said:


> No, no, no and no. Sorry, it's nowhere near the best possible solution. Here's why:
> 
> A) An apartment lease doesn't work that way. I can't just trade it to someone else. I would have to break my lease, and X and her roommate would have to get their own lease based on their own credit. I would be out $1000 worth of security deposit.
> 
> B) If she isn't paying the mortgage or her lawyer or any of her other debts, why should I expect her to stick to a repayment plan for past due payments?
> 
> C) The house has no equity. It is 40 years old. It needs tens of thousands of dollars worth of repairs and renovations. The monthly mortgage payment is 25% more than my current rent. The utilities cost almost three times what I'm spending at the apartment.
> 
> D) I have no money for the necessary costs of refinancing. The 30 days past due that's now on my credit report because she wasn't paying the mortgage also makes refinance more difficult.
> 
> E) I don't want to move again. I hate moving.
> 
> *In other words, all it does is take all of X's problems and make them mine.*
> 
> No.


I knew it was silly but some of her problems are already yours as long as you are on the note.

My thinking was it seemed less impactful on your children kids and less as a move because of the kids stuff as they would stay in place.

But clearly all your points are problematic.

Just get that house sold ASAP

Are you still on the deed as well as the note If so you can force a sale no ?


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## just got it 55

philglossop said:


> But I bet it's crossed her mind more than once..........


Sh!t I hope that dosn't make us like thinkers :scratchhead:


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## philglossop

just got it 55 said:


> Sh!t I hope that dosn't make us like thinkers :scratchhead:


Probably.

But it's always in their minds.....

If Pbar says no- 50p or 50c claims he'll be blamed for it all.

It's just all so predictable.


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## Nucking Futs

just got it 55 said:


> Sh!t I hope that dosn't make us like thinkers :scratchhead:


By us I hope you were referring to you and her and not the rest of us. If I thought I thought like her I'd be looking for a lobotomy.


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## just got it 55

Nucking Futs said:


> By us I hope you were referring to you and her and not the rest of us. If I thought I thought like her I'd be looking for a lobotomy.


I mean her I guess I will schedule one


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## Pbartender

So, I spoke with the mortgage company over the telephone again. They confirmed that the WWotMW still hasn't paid, and that another "30 days past due" has been reported for December.

I decided to give her a bit of a nudge, and took a slightly more irate tone than usual with it...

_What's going on with the mortgage?

I spoke with MortgageCompany this morning. They said the mortgage is two months late again, and that another "30 days past due" has already been reported for the December payment. More than $4500 will be due by February 1st. Why haven't you been paying?

Also, the deadline for your first attempt to refinance is February 14th. To my knowledge, you haven't even tried yet. Is there something preventing you from doing so?

If you can't take care of this, or if we can't work out an alternate solution, I will file the necessary paperwork to go talk to the judge about it again._

She replied...

_In December I called to set up automatic payments, was told it would take up to two weeks for them to begin and I do not know why they are still not being processed... I will call them again, I am still not receiving statements or account information from them & can not figure out why. I have applied for a refinance through my bank, should hear back from them sometime next week._

What she doesn't yet seem to know is... Our mortgage company will not allow automatic payments, if the account is past due. She will need to catch up with the late payments, before they authorize it.

Also, they only send out one statement per month. The last one was sent to me, and I hand delivered it to her. The next doesn't get mailed until next week.

Besides, in the meantime, all the account information can be accessed online or by phone. And payments can always be made online, by phone or by mail.


:slap:


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## vi_bride04

Pesky mortgage company keeping her from paying on time...!! How dare they


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## angelpixie

And good grief, when something isn't going the way you think it should, the last thing you should do is keep calling and working on it until it's straightened out, right? I mean, really, getting 'past due' notices on your credit rating isn't nearly as bad as being thought of as an annoyance by the mortgage company for calling too many times, trying to get them their money. Puh-leeeze


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## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> And good grief, when something isn't going the way you think it should, the last thing you should do is keep calling and working on it until it's straightened out, right? I mean, really, getting 'past due' notices on your credit rating isn't nearly as bad as being thought of as an annoyance by the mortgage company for calling too many times, trying to get them their money. Puh-leeeze


It's a bad case of willful out-of-sight-out-of-mind.


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## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> It's a bad case of willful out-of-sight-out-of-mind.



Followed up with the blame game.


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## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> Followed up with the blame game.


Interestingly, no... Not this time.

While she isn't accepting blame for any of the problems, she hasn't blamed me or anyone else. There is perhaps, a vague implication that it's the mortgage company's fault, but all she says is, "I don't know why" and "can not figure out why".


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## Ceegee

Pbartender said:


> Interestingly, no... Not this time.
> 
> 
> 
> While she isn't accepting blame for any of the problems, she hasn't blamed me or anyone else. There is perhaps, a vague implication that it's the mortgage company's fault, but all she says is, "I don't know why" and "can not figure out why".



Sounded like she was blaming the mortgage company to me. 

The auto pay? So she's not responsible for remembering.


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## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> Sounded like she was blaming the mortgage company to me.


She _wants_ to blame the mortgage company, but she's still fishing around... that's why it's "I don't know why" instead of flat out "the mortgage company didn't do it right".


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## angelpixie

Yes, they should have called her back (she assumes you believe her when she says she contacted them) to help her set up the auto-payment or to tell her she's not eligible for it. 'Totally their fault' was the way I read it, too.


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## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> 'Totally their fault' was the way I read it, too.


In my experience, she's never been so subtle about assigning blame. Usually it's more like, "Since Pbar's made it financially impossible for me to move out..." (Remember _that_ one?)

My translation was, "Probably their fault, but I'm just make **** up to delay, because I haven't actually done anything yet."


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## Pluto2

Is this total delusion on her part? Can she honestly think you would believe this load of crap? oops.. wait.... I just tripped over the "honestly think" phrase. Never mind.


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## just got it 55

Delusion

Yup thats the one word it takes to define her


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## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> Can she honestly think you would believe this load of crap?


So long as she believes it, what difference does it make if I believe it or not?


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## LongWalk

Do you think she'd be willing to kiss you if you fixed the mortgage problem for her?


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## Pbartender

LongWalk said:


> Do you think she'd be willing to kiss you if you fixed the mortgage problem for her?


Why on Earth would I want to fix the mortgage problem for her?
Why on Earth would I want her to kiss me?

An entirely revolting set of notions.


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## angelpixie

LongWalk said:


> Do you think she'd be willing to kiss you if you fixed the mortgage problem for her?





Pbartender said:


> Sorry, I don't double-dip... And especially not after some other guy's already dunked his digits in the salsa.


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## Tron

On the lips??? Ewwwwww Yuck! 

Maybe on his :moon:


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## just got it 55

Peebs anything good happening young brother ?


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## Pbartender

just got it 55 said:


> Peebs anything good happening young brother ?


Well, she owes $4,665 to the mortgage company by tomorrow. If it doesn't get paid, the mortgage will be 90 days late, and the 60 days late from last month will be officially reported. If it doesn't get paid by February 16th, the mortgage company will begin foreclosure.

I already have another Petition written up and ready to file.


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## tom67

Pbartender said:


> Well, she owes $4,665 to the mortgage company by tomorrow. If it doesn't get paid, the mortgage will be 90 days late, and the 60 days late from last month will be officially reported. If it doesn't get paid by February 16th, the mortgage company will begin foreclosure.
> 
> I already have another Petition written up and ready to file.


I sensed that when you said she was going to take over the mortgage.
But at least she has her great new life.:banghead::slap:
Whatever.


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## just got it 55

tom67 said:


> I sensed that when you said she was going to take over the mortgage.
> But at least she has her great new life.:banghead::slap:
> Whatever.


Yup Peebs gave her what she wanted

She had a brilliant plan until Peebs fvcked it up by being oh whats the word / phrase ?

Pragmatic
Sensible
Financially responsible 

55


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## Pluto2

Have you checked to see what's been reported on your credit?


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## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> Have you checked to see what's been reported on your credit?


I get alerts from Credit Karma, and I've asked the mortgage company directly what they've reported.


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## Pbartender

Pbartender said:


> Well, she owes $4,665 to the mortgage company by tomorrow. If it doesn't get paid, the mortgage will be 90 days late, and the 60 days late from last month will be officially reported. If it doesn't get paid by February 16th, the mortgage company will begin foreclosure.
> 
> I already have another Petition written up and ready to file.


Three days ago, I sent her a message saying almost exactly what I wrote above. Didn't hear anything back. I thought she was ignoring me again.

Just now, she texts me...

_"Sent MortgageCompany a payment earlier this week, still waiting for paperwork at my bank."_

I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Ceegee

WWotMW's credit report.
View attachment 15881


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## ReGroup

PB, wanted to stop in and say hi - I didn't know you had a thread going on in LAD.

Going to catch up tonight.

Be good brother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ceegee

ReGroup said:


> PB, wanted to stop in and say hi - I didn't know you had a thread going on in LAD.
> 
> 
> 
> Going to catch up tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Be good brother.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



604 posts later...


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## just got it 55

Ceegee said:


> 604 posts later...


Ceegee he has been a bit pre occupied

Wouldn't you say ??

QL and all

You can relate no ?

55


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## Ceegee

just got it 55 said:


> Ceegee he has been a bit pre occupied
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't you say ??
> 
> 
> 
> QL and all
> 
> 
> 
> You can relate no ?
> 
> 
> 
> 55



I guess...


----------



## Pbartender

Pbartender said:


> Just now, she texts me...
> 
> _"Sent MortgageCompany a payment earlier this week, still waiting for paperwork at my bank."_
> 
> I'll believe it when I see it.


Well, I checked in with the mortgage company again this morning. To my surprise, she _did_ make a payment. But...

She only paid $1500 of the $4660 she owes. Plus, the $1500 payment she made is about $15 short of the amount that was past due for December. So, that leftover $15 still counts as past due for December, and they've sent out official notice that the house may go into foreclosure if the payments aren't brought up to date by the 16th.

So, she's got two weeks to find another $3000.


----------



## tom67

Pbartender said:


> Well, I checked in with the mortgage company again this morning. To my surprise, she _did_ make a payment. But...
> 
> She only paid $1500 of the $4660 she owes. Plus, the $1500 payment she made is about $15 short of the amount that was past due for December. So, that leftover $15 still counts as past due for December, and they've sent out official notice that the house may go into foreclosure if the payments aren't brought up to date by the 16th.
> 
> So, she's got two weeks to find another $3000.



I guess another hearing is in order.
:slap::slap:


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## Pluto2

Pbartender said:


> Well, I checked in with the mortgage company again this morning. To my surprise, she _did_ make a payment. But...
> 
> She only paid $1500 of the $4660 she owes. Plus, the $1500 payment she made is about $15 short of the amount that was past due for December. So, that leftover $15 still counts as past due for December, and they've sent out official notice that the house may go into foreclosure if the payments aren't brought up to date by the 16th.
> 
> So, she's got two weeks to find another $3000.


good grief. I bet she sends the mortgage company the $15 and then claims she's up to date.


----------



## Pbartender

tom67 said:


> I guess another hearing is in order.
> :slap::slap:


Indeed, texts to her asking for proof of payments for the mortgage and proof of status for the refinance have gone unanswered.

I've already got another petition ready to go. I'll call up the mortgage company tomorrow and confirm the facts, then file the petition ASAP.

Other curiosities...

After a good start this semester, S15's grades started falling again. I had a talk with him to get him back on track... Learned that he simply hasn't been doing any homework when he's at the WWotMW's house. She lets him get away with by simply not paying attention to his schoolwork or grades.

About a month or so ago, D14 said the WWotMW got a second new kitten (that makes for two adults, four kids, two large dogs and two cats in the house), claiming that it was "Lucky's kitten" because he wanted one too but that he wasn't allowed to keep one at his parent's home for some reason. In reality, it's D14's kitten, because she's the one who actually feeds it, cleans up after it and plays with it. 

Just before I moved out, six months ago, the basement bathroom developed a very, very slow drain. It would take a whole day to drain the water out after a bath or shower. I'd trying to clear it in several ways, but with no success. I had planned on hiring a plumber after the divorce to fix it, but since she got the house, I didn't. Neither did she...

With her and the kids living in the basement rooms, and her roommate living upstairs, they started using the slow-draining bathtub. It turns out that one day, when D14 was at my place and wasn't around to watch after the new kitten, the WWotMW left the basement bathroom door open... Lucky's kitten snuck in, fell in the bathtub and drowned. 

The WWotMW already has plans to get another new kitten as a replacement.

Also, while I was looking up some information for the petition on the county clerk's website, on a whim I did a search for Lucky's name. He has quite the case file...

1 Theft
1 Alcohol in park
8 Speeding tickets
1 Failure to obey stop sign
1 Failure to carry/display license/permit
5 Operating uninsured motor vehicle
1 Operating motor vehicle with suspended registration
1 Driving with suspended license
1 Possession drug paraphernalia
2 Possession cannabis <2.5 grams
1 DUI any amount of drug
Checking the dates, it looks like his license and registration was actually suspended due to the traffic violations and lack of insurance, not the DUI. Then, he got caught driving with a suspended license and registration, and with pot in the car... The DUI was for marijuana, not alcohol.

That was five years ago.










*WINNING*


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## Pbartender

This just in... (once again, at the last minute)

The WWotMW texts me:

_"My income is to low to qualify on my own, Roommate & I are going to talk to her credit union about co-signing on a refinance sometime in the next few weeks (Roommate's daughter is having a hard time with her current round of chemo, so I don't know exactly when we will be able to go in). I am sending another payment to MortgageCompany on Friday & will bring the payments current when I get my tax return."_


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## angelpixie

Last minute, on a Sunday night, AFTER her deadline to pay the mortgage has passed...maybe she doesn't realize that gov't offices are closed tomorrow for President's Day, and she thinks you'll be filing a petition in the morning? 

And, if I understand correctly, she's paying _next_ Friday...thinking she'll be bringing the payments up to date? Um, no, she's still late, and still accruing late fees, so ... not current. 

This sucks, Pbar.  

And wow, Lucky's record...  Makes you wonder if she's gotten into indulging herself, thus explaining her lack of money, and lack of interest in DS and his studies, lack of interest in paying bills, etc.


----------



## Ceegee

How did you ever get involved with this woman?

She's sooo not your type.


----------



## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> Last minute, on a Sunday night, AFTER her deadline to pay the mortgage has passed...maybe she doesn't realize that gov't offices are closed tomorrow for President's Day, and she thinks you'll be filing a petition in the morning?
> 
> And, if I understand correctly, she's paying _next_ Friday...thinking she'll be bringing the payments up to date? Um, no, she's still late, and still accruing late fees, so ... not current.


Right... I agree, but...

I also know our judge. If I file the petition now, after the WWotMW has gotten back to me with a "plan" to solve the problem, I will be the one getting the stink-eye from the judge, not her. Especially so, if she somehow manages to pull the plan off within the 4-5 weeks it'll take before we actually get a hearing in front of the judge.

The Petition is ready to go, I can file it at any time.

Also, it occurs to me that if Roommate does cosign with her, she'll be willingly putting herself into the same situation I am now... Responsible for the mortgage on a house she doesn't own.

:slap:

Oh well... Not my problem. I don't care how she makes the refinance happen, so long as it gets my name off the mortgage. Then, she can do whatever she wants with it.


----------



## just got it 55

Peebs I can't picture you with a stupid woman

55


----------



## Pbartender

Ceegee said:


> How did you ever get involved with this woman?


The same way any of us did...

I was too young and inexperienced to really know what I wanted in a woman. She was pretending to be someone she wasn't. I fell in love with the facade. I didn't have enough self-confidence or self-respect to believe that I would find another woman who was attracted to me.


----------



## Pbartender

just got it 55 said:


> Peebs I can't picture you with a stupid woman


She hid it well.


----------



## angelpixie

Pbartender said:


> Right... I agree, but...
> 
> I also know our judge. If I file the petition now, after the WWotMW has gotten back to me with a "plan" to solve the problem, I will be the one getting the stink-eye from the judge, not her. Especially so, if she somehow manages to pull the plan off within the 4-5 weeks it'll take before we actually get a hearing in front of the judge.
> 
> The Petition is ready to go, I can file it at any time.
> 
> Also, it occurs to me that if Roommate does cosign with her, she'll be willingly putting herself into the same situation I am now... Responsible for the mortgage on a house she doesn't own.
> 
> :slap:
> 
> Oh well... Not my problem. I don't care how she makes the refinance happen, so long as it gets my name off the mortgage. Then, she can do whatever she wants with it.


True. The roommate has lived with WWotMW long enough to get a good idea of what she's signing up for. If not, well, that's her foolish mistake.


----------



## Pluto2

Pbartender said:


> Right... I agree, but...
> 
> I also know our judge. If I file the petition now, after the WWotMW has gotten back to me with a "plan" to solve the problem, I will be the one getting the stink-eye from the judge, not her. Especially so, if she somehow manages to pull the plan off within the 4-5 weeks it'll take before we actually get a hearing in front of the judge.
> 
> The Petition is ready to go, I can file it at any time.
> 
> Also, it occurs to me that if Roommate does cosign with her, she'll be willingly putting herself into the same situation I am now... Responsible for the mortgage on a house she doesn't own.
> 
> :slap:
> 
> Oh well... Not my problem. I don't care how she makes the refinance happen, so long as it gets my name off the mortgage. Then, she can do whatever she wants with it.


So she'll pay something on Friday (maybe) and then maybe get it up to date when she gets her tax refund. Sure she will.

but PB, more expenses came up ......
but PB, the tax refund wasn't as big as I had hoped and .....
but PB, I couldn't file the refund until April 15 because .......
but PB, room-mate's life is icky......
but PB, room-mate's credit union says .....
Her plan has more holes in it that the last pair of pantyhose I threw out-twenty years ago.

I get so damn tired of patiently waiting for ex-spouses to implode


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sounds like you have this all under control.


----------



## Pbartender

Pluto2 said:


> So she'll pay something on Friday (maybe) and then maybe get it up to date when she gets her tax refund. Sure she will.
> 
> but PB, more expenses came up ......
> but PB, the tax refund wasn't as big as I had hoped and .....
> but PB, I couldn't file the refund until April 15 because .......
> but PB, room-mate's life is icky......
> but PB, room-mate's credit union says .....
> Her plan has more holes in it that the last pair of pantyhose I threw out-twenty years ago.
> 
> I get so damn tired of patiently waiting for ex-spouses to implode


I won't necessarily argue with that... Her plans are always full of holes. She's doing her usual stalling.

But there's no point making myself look a fool before the judge out of impatience.

And I simply don't care about her excuses... They irrelevant. I ignore them. I only care about whether or not the payments are being made while my name is still on the mortgage.

Now, though, she's dragged Roommate into this. You guys were right before when you said I shouldn't go tell Roommate what's going on. But, if things continue to drag on, I don't think I'll have a problem anymore sending Roommate a message asking her to verify the co-signing plan.


----------



## zillard

Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

Marcus Aurelius


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## Pam

I'm so nosy. Did she pay anything?


----------



## Pbartender

Pam said:


> I'm so nosy. Did she pay anything?


Yes, actually. Against all expectations, she made another payment a week ago like she said she would. She only owes two months' worth of payments, now. 

I've been asking for additional details, proof and confirmation of her plan to refinance. So far, she's been ignoring my requests. She said that's she's already filed her taxes and that she only claimed D14 as a dependent, which is according to our MSA.

If I don't hear anything by next week, I'll send her roommate a message asking to confirm the plan to co-sign.

It may be true, but at this point I simply can't trust her to do what she's suppose to. So... we'll see.

At this point, she's making the minimal necessary effort to comply, so it wouldn't be productive to complain to the judge about it.


----------



## Pam

It has been almost three months, and I can't control my nosiness any longer. I have followed your story from the beginning, and now I need to know if That Woman is still keeping up with the house payments. And how your kids are. That sort of thing.


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## Pluto2

What are you and the kids up to this summer?


----------

