# Cheating wife



## Shkb

Hi all, I’ve been reading a lot of threads today because I am in a state of shock staying at a hotel, in a total fog and not sure what to do. My wife and I have been married 3 years but we were together for 3 when we were younger, we reconnected as adults and decided to really go for it. We fell madly back in love and got married and got a dog and a nice apartment and built a life together. There have been many good times and laughs and adventures, at times we’ve been happier than ever..

Ther have been lots of rocky times too, adjusting to being adults together, her family is really messed up and she had developed a binge drinking problem that at first was fun and exciting but I feel stupid not seeing it earlier as a problem. Last year after a few ridiculous nights where I basically became her babysitter I told her I wouldn’t support her drinking anymore and I quit drinking too. She was sober for 4 months which was huge but now it’s started to creep back in.

We moved to a new state and before we left her co-workers threw her a going away party. I was tired because I had worked all day and had work in the morning so said have fun. I woke up at 5 and she wasn’t home, texted and called with no answer for 20 minutes but saw her phone location as some random sidestreet. She finally called and was obviously pretty intoxicated, said she was having a big talk with her coworker. I said come home now, 40 minutes later he drops her off and she stumbles in (they were only parked 10 minutes away) and I was very upset and suspicious as she had a flirty thing going with this guy, but I’m open-minded and but we were friends too so I thought.

I yelled at her, I hated her drinking, I’m sleeping on the couch, and what was she doing parked in the car for an hour anyway? I should have trusted my gut but she acted like it was silly for me to think anything happened. Either way I went to bed very upset, had to wake up early. We talked about it in the morning and she said she was very drunk and they were just talking about work and life and stuff before we moved and she was going to quit alcohol again and we made up. Has only drank a few glasses of wine since then, this was 2 months ago.

We moved and put our new place together and started exploring our new town. She started having issues with her bladder and went to the doctor. Turns out she has chlamydia and actually did have sex with this coworker in his car that night. She claims she doesn’t even remember and was blacked out and a friend had given her a xanax. Now I probably have chlamydia. She is also not on birth control because I have a vasectomy. So she could have gotten pregnant. I was livid and said a few mean things and then left the house to get a hotel. I came back to get some things and she had written a long note saying sorry and that she wants to spend her life with me and this was a horrible mistake. I texted her and said she needs to stay with family now, I need space right away for awhile, she agreed to leave, I don’t know if that’s the right choice, I just felt so shut down and crappy. Then I left for the hotel.

This morning at 5 I got a call from a hospital an hour away that she was found stumbling drunk on the side of the road. Her friend had come picked her up, they had got wasted and her friend was driving drunk, got pulled over and ran off, leaving my wife drunk on the side of the highway. They took her in an ambulance and I had to drive to pick her up. She was a hot mess driving home saying all kinds of things but I am so numb at this point and feel like an idiot. Our lives are so tied together and we have so many mutual childhood friends and an apartment and pets..I’m so confused, I haven’t even left the hotel bed since I got back. I don’t even know why I’m posting, I called my brother but I guess I just don’t have many people to talk to, I don’t want to smear her name and the truth is very embarrassing. I wonder if her friends knew and am tempted to ask. She says she doesn’t remember it at all but she said she called the coworker and he said yeah it happened, I don’t know if any of that is true. We’ve had our ups and downs but I feel like I’ve been very good to her, I’m pretty stable and worked hard for our life. I feel like a chump


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## Diana7

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Hi all, I’ve been reading a lot of threads today because I am in a state of shock staying at a hotel, in a total fog and not sure what to do. My wife and I have been married 3 years but we were together for 3 when we were younger, we reconnected as adults and decided to really go for it. We fell madly back in love and got married and got a dog and a nice apartment and built a life together. There have been many good times and laughs and adventures, at times we’ve been happier than ever..
> 
> Ther have been lots of rocky times too, adjusting to being adults, her family is really messed up and she had developed a binge drinking problem that at first was fun and exciting but I feel stupid not seeing it earlier as a problem. Last year after a few ridiculous nights where I basically became her babysitter I told her I wouldn’t support her drinking anymore and I quit drinking too. She was sober for 4 months which was huge but now it’s started to creep back in.
> 
> We moved to a new state and before we left her co-workers threw her a going away party. I was tired because I had worked all day and had work in the morning so said have fun. I woke up at 5 and she wasn’t home, texted and called with no answer for 20 minutes but saw her phone location as some random sidestreet. She finally called and was obviously pretty intoxicated, said she was having a big talk with her coworker. I said come home now, 40 minutes later he drops her off and she stumbles in (they were only parked 10 minutes away) and I was very upset and suspicious as she had a flirty thing going with this guy, but I’m open-minded and but we were friends too so I thought.
> 
> I yelled at her, I hated her drinking, I’m sleeping on the couch, and what was she doing parked in the car for an hour anyway? I should have trusted my gut but she acted like it was silly for me to think anything happened. Either way I went to bed very upset, had to wake up early. We talked about it in the morning and she said she was very drunk and they were just talking about work and life and stuff before we moved and she was going to quit alcohol again and we made up. Has only drank a few glasses of wine since then, this was 2 months ago.
> 
> We moved and put our new place together and started exploring our new town. She started having issues with her bladder and went to the doctor. Turns out she has chlamydia and actually did sleep with this coworker in his car that night. She claims she doesn’t even remember and was blacked out and a friend had given her a xanax. Now I probably have chlamydia. She is also not on birth control because I have a vasectomy. So she could have gotten pregnant. I was livid and said a few mean things and then left the house to get a hotel. I came back to get some things and she had written a long note saying sorry and that she wants to spend her life with me and this was a horrible mistake. I texted her and said she needs to stay with family now, I need space right away for awhile, she agreed to leave, I don’t know if that’s the right choice, I just felt so shut down and crappy. Then I left for the hotel.
> 
> This morning at 5 I got a call from a hospital an hour away that she was found stumbling drunk on the side of the road. Her friend had come picked her up, they had got wasted and her friend was driving drunk, got pulled over and ran off, leaving my wife drunk on the side of the highway. They took her in an ambulance and I had to drive to pick her up. She was a hot mess driving home saying all kinds of things but I am so numb at this point and feel like an idiot. Our lives are so tied together and we have so many mutual childhood friends and an apartment and pets..I’m so confused, I haven’t even left the hotel bed since I got back. I don’t even know why I’m posting, I called my brother but I guess I just don’t have many people to talk to, I don’t want to smear her name and the truth is very embarrassing. I wonder if her friends knew and am tempted to ask. She says she doesn’t remember it at all but she said she called the coworker and he said yeah it happened, I don’t know if any of that is true. We’ve had our ups and downs but I feel like I’ve been very good to her, I’m pretty stable and worked hard for our life. I feel like a chump


Cheating after just a short time and then lying to you for ages shows that she cant be trusted. As for having sex with you afterwards as if nothing had happened and giving you an STD, thats is just appalling. Sorry but I would ask her to go. With that and her drinking its hard to see how this can turn out ok. She needs to grow up.Strange how so many people who cheat claim they cant remember what happened, its one of the many lies they tell. 
Whatever you do please care for the pets, its not their fault what has happened and they will be confused and unhappy.


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## Shkb

I guess I don’t know if she remembers or not but I don’t understand how she could completely forget, I guess xanax does that? So I guess she wants me to forgive right away for that reason and instead be mad at her coworker or something. But I don’t know what to believe right now.

She’s always been flirty, that’s just who she is, outgoing and gregarious and I always knew that about her so I wasn’t very controlling, I tried to trust her. She doesn’t have a great track record with past relationships and I have my own baggage but I thought we were something different, I mean we got married. Maybe too rash a decision and now I am really screwed up about our whole story

She is taking the dog and I am keeping the cat. I am devoted to the pets and I know she will be too but I am worried about what she will do if she doesn’t really stop drinking


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## Lostinthought61

Honestly she should have been arrested...you just started your marriage and within three years she has demonstrated poor judgement, cheating, lying, and an alcohol addiction....sorry but you need to move on with out her. Looks like you grew up but not her...


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## Andy1001

You’re married to a lying, cheating, std ridden, drug taking alcoholic.
Need I elaborate?


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## Shkb

Yeah it’s been a rollercoaster. I guess I have my own bad habit too (weed) and drank with her for some time, but since it became really destructive I’ve quit and committed to my own sobriety. She is now sending me all kinds of texts of what she’s going to do differently, go to AA and get therapy and basically try to fix things etc.

I told her I hope she can forgive herself so she doesn’t self-destruct with drinking, I sent her away to stay with her family with the dog so she has something to care about. She tried to put a time limit on it (3 weeks) but I said I get as much time as I need, she is unemployed so I handle the bills anyway. Then I said please stop texting, I need space. I guess I am prepared for a long process of figuring out what I want to do, I am in no hurry to reconcile. And now I have an std to treat which is just a nightmare


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## SnowToArmPits

Our


> lives are so tied together and we have so many mutual childhood friends and an apartment and pets


Buddy you're not that tied together - no kids, houses, businesses.

I think you're doing the right thing taking some time apart. See how you feel about your relationship and her cheating in a few weeks. Your head should be clearer.

Life's too short to be married to a binge drinker or a drunk. She promised she'd quit before.


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## Shkb

Thanks for that. You’re right. I guess I’m surprised at my lack of anger, and feelings in general right now, I just feel kind of numb and dull. Maybe it’s because we’ve already been here, had all kinds of fights and bad experiences with the binge drinking and the flirty inappropriate relationships. I’ve put my foot down before but change is always temporary then it all sneaks back in. It’s never gone this far and I always trusted her and forgave her but now I just have nothing more to say. I deactivated my Facebook, makes me feel weird looking at all our happy pics and plans


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## Andy1001

Andy1001 said:


> You’re married to a lying, cheating, std ridden, drug taking alcoholic.
> Need I elaborate?


Edited to add she’s also a lazy, unemployed leech. 
So I did have to elaborate after all.
Why on earth are you asking for advice, you should be talking to a lawyer.


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## Shkb

I guess I’m just venting. Processing and I’ve literally been lurking on these forums allll day so wanted to reach out for some support and share my story. Honestly she is unemployed now due to Covid, she’s always been a hard worker and contributed equally. But lately I have been paying for everything while she job-hunts after our move; she worked in restaurants and wanted to get out because of the toxic environment. Her coworker was a chef there. Ugh

Feels weird defending her/explaining but we have a long story together, grew up together. And there are were so many good times.


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## Daytrip

I'm going against the grain here. I've been down your road. With the STD part too. You obviously love her. So you have it on your heart to forgive. The next part you can't control. At some point she will need to understand your pain and be willing to earn your trust. I know the xanax and alcohol part too. It's a tough road.


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## Rob_1

Your life, your decision, but if you are fool enough to stay with this train wreck, don't say you weren't warned when it eventually hits you square in the head.


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## Shkb

Thanks. Yeah I do love her, we were each other’s first relationship in high school. So it’s not like she’s a stranger, we have a connection. The marriage has been a lot of highs and a lot of lows and complicated emotions. I can forgive her, but I can’t just go right back to the way things were and carry on with our life plans.

I also don’t want to live a life constantly worrying and spying and doubting and not trusting. I feel like that will make me sick and I have my own ambitions to focus on. So I guess it would have to be an open relationship, I would have to expect that this will happen again, and maybe open that door for myself too, but that just sounds so messy and complex.

She is saying she wants to change and will never do this to me again. But I just don’t believe it. Why should I believe anything? The trust is completely gone. I feel like she made a fool of me and is now trying to make this part of our love story, that she gets better and we get back together down the road because of our big love, but what if it happens again, I’ll be so messed up about it. I guess I’ll take this time and see what I really feel


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## ABHale

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Thanks for that. You’re right. I guess I’m surprised at my lack of anger, and feelings in general right now, I just feel kind of numb and dull. Maybe it’s because we’ve already been here, had all kinds of fights and bad experiences with the binge drinking and the flirty inappropriate relationships. I’ve put my foot down before but change is always temporary then it all sneaks back in. It’s never gone this far and I always trusted her and forgave her but now I just have nothing more to say. I deactivated my Facebook, makes me feel weird looking at all our happy pics and plans



The way you are feeling is completely normal. This is why you need time way from her.

Talk with a lawyer as well to see what your options are.

One thing is clear as daylight, if her past was filled with cheating. Once a cheater always a cheater applies to your wife.


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## Shkb

Thank you for that. Yeah I guess I thought we would be different and we were really swept up in getting back together. Obviously she has some void she needs filled with attention, I can’t fix that for her no matter how hard I tried and it’s been helpful to read the forums to remind myself this isn’t my fault.


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## jlg07

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I’ve put my foot down before but change is always temporary then it all sneaks back in


So, now that she's cheated and you have NO reason to trust her actions or word, what makes you think that she will fix the drinking THIS time? She's already spoke with this guy AGAIN after she cheated? Restaurants are notoriously BAD environments for cheating, so if she gets ANOTHER job in that field??? (especially since she's "flirty"). Her being flirty, can you EVER really trust her again if this is fundamentally how she is? She can't change that in her nature, so...

You are correct, cheating is ALL on her, NOTHING to do with you.


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## jsmart

With such a short marriage and no kids, you need to cut her loose. You’ve cleaned yourself up but she will pull you back into the muck.

I would not assume that it was a 1 time drunken ONS. If she’s been flirting with this coworker for a while, they could have been Having a FWB for months and this could have been their goodbye Frak. Either way, she let this guy shoot in her knowing her womb was fertile. The last thing you want is to raise some other man’s kid. Dump her.


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## Shkb

Yeah I had her Instagram login and found months of messages, I screenshotted them. Nothing explicit but lots of flirty stuff and a few times where she told him he needed to stop talking dirty and getting handsy with her, that she was married, and he responded with he knows the boundaries. Guess that was bs. Also messages even just from a week ago saying she missed him. But that’s typical of her, she’s still friends with exes and has a lot of friendships and connections that I don’t think she’d be willing to untangle if I ever told her to cut off contact. Headache. He was my friend too, or thought he was, and we’d all hung out together many times.


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## Diana7

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I guess I don’t know if she remembers or not but I don’t understand how she could completely forget, I guess xanax does that? So I guess she wants me to forgive right away for that reason and instead be mad at her coworker or something. But I don’t know what to believe right now.
> 
> She’s always been flirty, that’s just who she is, outgoing and gregarious and I always knew that about her so I wasn’t very controlling, I tried to trust her. She doesn’t have a great track record with past relationships and I have my own baggage but I thought we were something different, I mean we got married. Maybe too rash a decision and now I am really screwed up about our whole story
> 
> She is taking the dog and I am keeping the cat. I am devoted to the pets and I know she will be too but I am worried about what she will do if she doesn’t really stop drinking


Being flirty is a big red flag, I would never marry a flirt. Its not 'just how she is,' she chooses to flirt. She says she doesnt remember yet didnt she say originally that they spent hours just talking? So she cleaarly was fine to make that lie up. 
A drunk cant really look after a dog.
I would ask her not to contact you for a set time, say 2 or 3 months and see how you feel, but is this the sort of mum you want for your child??? Putting you at risk from an STD was just awful you can get serious heath issues from that. She has no boundaries at all with men.


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## Shkb

I don’t know if she’ll really stop drinking. She literally got wasted last night, after I found out about the cheating while she tried to blame the drinking. We drank a lot together when we first got together, mostly at bars and parties and it was mostly good times but I would see hints of her dark side. Then year two I quit drinking because I started to hate it, and she was definitely showing signs of being a binge drinking alcoholic, getting absolutely trashed for whatever reason and acting very inappropriately, I started to dread her drunk self. 

I hope she stops drinking for herself and the dog, and her niece and nephew who I grew quite close to. Now I am just thinking of myself and I can’t believe what I tolerated but now I know I just can’t put up with any of that anymore, not even a drop. Especially knowing this is where it leads. The whole thing just grosses me out


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## Enigma32

There are many things you could do, but there is only one thing you should do: talk to a divorce attorney. Find a divorce lawyer with a tough reputation and do every single thing they recommend to you, no matter how harsh it seems. Divorce is coming for you, my friend, you need to be the one that starts the process or you will likely find yourself at a severe disadvantage.


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## Shkb

I guess initially I am attracted to her outgoing nature, I’m more reserved so I guess opposites attract? Over time it became a headache and a detriment, especially when I had to babysit her drunken alter-ego. She took a xanax and got wasted and blacked out apparently. But I spoke to her on the phone that night when she finally answered and she was sober enough to lie to me, and continue to concoct a story when I was accusing her of cheating when she finally stumbled home. I have a vasectomy so a child isn’t in my future. Yeah I’m so mad it could have been herpes or aids! How disrespectful of my body and hers. And she has the gall to text me the day after D-day with fantasies of getting back together and fixing everything. I am already preparing myself to be single, I can’t just go back to this


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## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I guess I’m just venting. Processing and I’ve literally been lurking on these forums allll day so wanted to reach out for some support and share my story. Honestly she is unemployed now due to Covid, she’s always been a hard worker and contributed equally. But lately I have been paying for everything while she job-hunts after our move; she worked in restaurants and wanted to get out because of the toxic environment. Her coworker was a chef there. Ugh
> 
> Feels weird defending her/explaining but we have a long story together, grew up together. And there are were so many good times.


I will say, I think that you are making this much harder on yourself by thinking that “history” means anything. When someone boozes, kills someone in an accident and can’t remember, do they get a free pass? But they don’t remember it! No. Her actions are hers and she gets no free pass.
That said, best case scenario; you take her back and run the VERY probable risk that she still boozes. And cheats. And you have to now live your life like a parole officer and baby sitter, dreading every holiday (because they love to drink on holidays) and every weekend (because they love to drink on weekends). And you create more “history” so that when she destroys you over and over... well you have so much history that you can’t just leave behind! Maybe one day you’ll wake up 20 years in and figure out you could have done a hell of a lot better if you’d left after giving her a 3rd, 5th or whatever chance you’re in now. 
Or maybe you do for yourself what I’m trying to do, realize a life without having another person control every thought and feeling you have (let’s face it you’re totally dependent on her mood or sobriety to be “happy) is a far better life to live. No risk whatsoever of being cheated on, hurt or lied to by her ever again. 100% guaranteed, if you move on without her. Best of luck, I wish you the best.


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## Shkb

I hear you. Thank you. I think you are right. My dad was an alcoholic and it ruined our family. She doesn’t care and has put me through so much with it. Even if there is history and memories there’s a lot of trauma and now it’s all coming back to me, what I tried to forget and put behind us when times were good


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## Shkb

The thought of not having the deal with any of this drinking and cheating and drama anymore feels liberating. It would feel like a relief and a breath of fresh air to not be biting my nails about any of this anymore, to just let it go and only have to think about myself.


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## jsmart

Her getting clamydia and risking pregnancy should be enough of a wake up call for you to bounce. Now you see through the social media that this relationship was building up for a while. 

do you really want a wife who says she misses some dude who is getting handsy? She most likely allowed this dude to feel her up many times, but finally gave herself completely in the back of his car.


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## Thumos

Apartment and pets is not entangled. Three years and you have a wife who probably gave you chlamydia.

see an attorney next week. Don’t delay. File. Move on.

ghost her. You’re dealing with a likely BPD and you need to grey rock her and move on with your life.

This is the real woman you married, not the idealized one you had in your head. She is showing you who she is.

she’s an emotional vampire who will suck all the joy and vitality from your life if you let her.

read:

-No More Mr. Nice Guy
-The Way of the Superior Man
-Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life

start working on yourself and your core life mission. Fix your picker for avoiding toxic women in the future.


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## Diana7

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I don’t know if she’ll really stop drinking. She literally got wasted last night, after I found out about the cheating while she tried to blame the drinking. We drank a lot together when we first got together, mostly at bars and parties and it was mostly good times but I would see hints of her dark side. Then year two I quit drinking because I started to hate it, and she was definitely showing signs of being a binge drinking alcoholic, getting absolutely trashed for whatever reason and acting very inappropriately, I started to dread her drunk self.
> 
> I hope she stops drinking for herself and the dog, and her niece and nephew who I grew quite close to. Now I am just thinking of myself and I can’t believe what I tolerated but now I know I just can’t put up with any of that anymore, not even a drop. Especially knowing this is where it leads. The whole thing just grosses me out


I rarely drink to be honest because I see what damage drink does and the vast cost to the police and nhs. I also just see people making complete idiots of themselves, and drink driving is inexcusable.Its also so expensive and such a waste of money.


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## lifeistooshort

Cheaters LOVE to "not remember".

And from the perspective of a woman a good bit older then you, this line stood out at me:

"She’s always been flirty, that’s just who she is". That's code for a woman who has a fragile ego and requires a lot of male attention. These often often have more male "friends" and will tell you they just get along better with men, but the real reason is that they just don't like competing with other women for mens attention. 

These women make poor parter material.

FYI, the dude in the car likely isn't the first one....he's the only one you know about and that's only because she got an STD.


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## manfromlamancha

You need to face the possibility that you know only the tip of the iceberg (and even that is full of lies).

The chances are high that:

This was not her first rodeo - there were probably others (not just this POSOM). The chances of her getting Chlamydia on her first bout is low. She may have been screwing around and the STD came home to manifest at this time.

There is a very high possibility that she had something going with this creep anyway.

They are both using the cover of being drunk and "blacked out" to justify their lust on this last goodbye "frak" as somebody else put it.

She has probably always been like this and figured that you would never find out, that she can blame it on the alcohol and all will be well. Did you ask her what she would do if she did indeed get pregnant? Would she just abort the pregnancy? If she says this then it adds to the picture you should be forming of her which is drink, lust after whoever, frak away with no need for protection and drop the baby if she gets pregnant. As for STD's she probably thinks that she picks her affair partners or f-buddies well enough to know that they probably would not have AIDS and that stuff like Chlamydia is treatable.

Do not fall for any of this bull. Is the POSOM married or in a relationship? If so, his wife/SO needs to know asap.


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## TJW

manfromlamancha said:


> This was not her first rodeo - there were probably others (not just this POSOM).



Yes, she probably has a long history of POSOMs.


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## oldshirt

Laws and courts vary from place to place, but if you are legally married to her and she gets knocked up, you may be on the hook for supporting the child even though you are not the bio dad. 

If she drives drunk and takes out a school bus full of kids, you will be on the hook when the lawsuits start rolling in. 

If she gets drunk and tears up the town, you will be who they come to for bail and fines and damages etc. 

In other words, you will be the one footing the bills for her irresponsible and destructive behaviors. 

You may love her and you may still want to have sex with her, but are you so codependent and enabling that you are willing to pay for her irresponsibility and her destructive actions? 

Marriage is a legal partnership and a legal contract. Are you wanting to remain legally and financially accountable for her actions?


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## Shkb

Thank you for the replies. Our lives are pretty intertwined and I always had access to her phone and messages. She told me everything and I’ve certainly uncovered a few emotional affairs that went too far in my opinion but not hers; lots of I miss you’s and flirtatious stuff with friends and exes. There are obviously no boundaries with her, I never set them, and her need for attention seems to have no limit. I should have known. She did this to her last partner and told me all about it. Maybe I should reach out to him and tell him. I guess I just thought we had something special, we were best friends and very close.

I’ve decided to call a lawyer tomorrow and start the filing process. Even though it is early days and she just left today I want to make my stance clear and protect myself. And even now I just can’t see us going back to what we were, or what I thought we were. What would that even look like? I’m going to be bitter and suspicious for a long time and I doubt she will change the behaviors she needs to to make me feel safe. She’s addicted to attention and new love/lust. Maybe my fault for putting a ring on it. It was like we were on drugs getting back together. We were each other’s first love. We took each other’s virginities!

Things have been kind of stale with us for the last 6 months or so, we transitioned into more of a roommate/best friend vibe and the passion kind of waned with all these fights and negative experiences chipping away at my desire for her over time. Her lack of motivation without her job had her watching Tv for hours and hours. She would get really horny when drunk and over time I started to find it kind of repulsive and turned her down many times. I wanted sober sex! Maybe I’m just not enough of a party boy for her. And actually we haven’t had sex in 3 weeks now because of her bladder issue which turned out to be an std!

I should have known this would happen. She kissed my best friend in high school at a party and I caught them. I was very upset. It was pretty traumatic for me. I figured our time apart and us getting back together and falling back in love would mean bliss and everything would be perfect. Guess this has me rethinking believing in fairytales


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## phillybeffandswiss

I always wait now because betrayed spouses sometimes protect And excuse their partners.

Months of flirting culminating in memory loss sex? it can happen, but with that build up I doubt it.

Always remember, forgiveness doesn’t come with caveats, we add those ourselves. You can move on to a new healthy relationship and still forgive her.


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## jsmart

You need to steel yourself for her attempts to get you to forget. She’s probably going to try to love bomb you. This will make you waiver on dumping her. The best thing is for you to implement the 180 to help you start to distance your heart from her. 

She’s going to claim that it was her first time but the chances that she caught the STD on the very 1st time seems unlikely. 

Ask yourself, How many times has she been in that backseat? Maybe not for PIV but for a make out sessions that kept escalating each time. The thrill gets waywards open to this escalation. First it’s a quick Kiss, next time they’re making out, then next time they’re heavily petting, Follow ups lead to a BJ, then finally she give all of herself with full PIV. So even if there were no other guys, it’s highly doubtful it was a 1 time event.


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## Shkb

Yeah I guess it doesn’t really matter now. This is her pattern of behavior and if it was once or a buildup or different partners I don’t really care to find out. I thought I knew everything and all her secrets. She told me a lot, all her sexual adventures in our time apart, and I’m pretty experienced myself so we were on the same level in a way, and she let me in quite a bit and I’m open-minded so we even used some of it to get turned on. But this blindsided me and definitely does NOT turn me on

I blocked her number and deleted my social media. Her friends are reaching out to me. I’m just done now. I need to start moving on today and have some respect for myself. She made me sick not just physically but emotionally too and I’m actually relieved to think of myself as separated from her right now.


----------



## Talker67

alcohol is a VERY strong drug, and many people simply can not handle it. they drink to excess, and do stupid things that they are ashamed about later on.

i personally would NOT do anything sudden here. I would work with her to get sober. Sign her up for AA. remove every drop of alcohol from the house. in a lucide moment of hers, have her give over all her passwords to any social media site, any communications apps. turn on phone tracking, and get a map of where she has been. Drive her to AA meetings, and back. 

See if she can sober up to the point of being lucid all the time, THEN work out the marriage problems.
You married her "in sickness and in health". Alcoholism is a sickness. So part of your oath is to see her thru.

Now if she starts backsliding, hiding things from you, communicating with men, getting drunk, skipping the AA classes, generally slutting around...then it is time to cut and run.


----------



## gr8ful1

Absolutely no to “Talker67”. Start the divorce process now. In the extremely unlikely event she actually changes (NOT mere promises to change) but she manages to convince you by her ACTIONS that she has truly changed over many many months, you can always stop the divorce process.

Even better would be to divorce and, at the very minimum, demote her to girlfriend and make her prove over a long time that she’s truly changed. And that’s assuming what she’s done is not a dealbreaker, which it would be for me and most others.


----------



## TDSC60

OP

Divorce is the best option for you. Otherwise you will just be wondering when she will eventually get drunk and F another guy. 
Her flirtatious nature is another red flag. Binge drinkers can go months or even years without touching alcohol, but eventually they get the mindset that one little drink will not hurt. They think they can stop before they get totally drunk. But if they take one drink they cannot stop. So she will do it again.

Alcohol only loosens inhibitions. So what she does when drunk is usually the real person, not some aberration caused by alcohol.


----------



## oldshirt

Talker67 said:


> alcohol is a VERY strong drug, and many people simply can not handle it. they drink to excess, and do stupid things that they are ashamed about later on.
> 
> i personally would NOT do anything sudden here. I would work with her to get sober. Sign her up for AA. remove every drop of alcohol from the house. in a lucide moment of hers, have her give over all her passwords to any social media site, any communications apps. turn on phone tracking, and get a map of where she has been. Drive her to AA meetings, and back.
> 
> See if she can sober up to the point of being lucid all the time, THEN work out the marriage problems.
> You married her "in sickness and in health". Alcoholism is a sickness. So part of your oath is to see her thru.
> 
> Now if she starts backsliding, hiding things from you, communicating with men, getting drunk, skipping the AA classes, generally slutting around...then it is time to cut and run.


I completely disagree with this and think it is plain and simple codependence and enabling. It is trying to make the sober person responsible for fixing the drunk. What you are saying is that he needs to do all the heavy lifting and all the risky investment in trying to fix what is broken in her and if after he has exhausted all his time, energy and money into train wreck until he has nothing left to give and if she is still a drunken party girl and cheater, then he leaves. That doesn't work. That is putting all the risk and all the work, effort and expense on him. 

It needs to be the opposite. He needs to cut her lose and SHE takes all the risk. SHE puts in the effort and SHE foots her bills and expenses to become someone worthy of being a spouse and partner. 

If she is to become a sober, responsible and functional adult, SHE is going to have to do the heavy lifting. SHE has to seek treatment and SHE is going to have to get herself there and SHE is going to have to put down the bottle and get a job and rebuild her life. 

His responsibility is to himself and at this point that means unyoking himself from her and getting away from her and away from any legal and financial responsibilities to the destruction she will cause so she doesn't drag him under and drown him with her. 

If years from now she has obtained sobriety and a self-sufficiency and a steady self-supporting career and has learned self control and how to have healthy relationships and is no longer attention and validation seeking from men and no longer hooking up with f--k boiz in the back seats of cars and getting STDs etc etc etc then maybe he can consider meeting up with her again if she has multiple years of sobriety and responsibility and functional and healthy behavior under her belt. 

But he can not be responsible or have that burden on him to transform her into a responsible and functional adult. 

SHE needs to do that and have a solid history of healthy adulting before he gives her the time of day again. 

She needs to prove to him that she can be a healthy, functional adult first.


----------



## oldshirt

Talker67 said:


> Now if she starts backsliding, hiding things from you, communicating with men, getting drunk, skipping the AA classes, generally slutting around...then it is time to cut and run.


No. 

The time to cut and run is now while she is displaying bad and irresponsible and destructive behavior. 
If she straightens herself up and is conducting a sane, sober, healthy and responsible life for several years, then maybe he can consider starting from square-one if he hasn't already found someone else that is sane and sober and faithful by that point.


----------



## oldshirt

Talker67 said:


> See if she can sober up to the point of being lucid all the time, THEN work out the marriage problems.
> You married her "in sickness and in health". Alcoholism is a sickness. So part of your oath is to see her thru.
> .


No. It is not a sickness, it is a character flaw and bad behavior. 

Yes it will eventually take on a physiologic component and physical dependency. But drinking starts out as a conscious choice and once bad things start to happen due to it and the person continues to drink and does not seek treatment and put a full-faith effort to stop, it is a flaw in their character and behavior. 

She didn't catch alcoholism because someone coughed in an enclosed area. 

She didn't get down with some dude in the middle of the night in a car and get an STD and then come home and expose her husband to it because she was at conference and a lot of people were in a poorly ventilated venue. 

These were choices and behaviors and consensual activities. 

People making excuses for these bad behaviors are what makes them enablers.


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## oldshirt

TDSC60 said:


> Alcohol only loosens inhibitions. So what she does when drunk is usually the real person, not some aberration caused by alcohol.


Quoted for truth. 

She partied it up, got drunk and then got down with some dude in the middle of the night in a car and then exposed the OP to an STD because she wanted to.


----------



## oldshirt

gr8ful1 said:


> Absolutely no to “Talker67”. Start the divorce process now. In the extremely unlikely event she actually changes (NOT mere promises to change) but she manages to convince you by her ACTIONS that she has truly changed over many many months, you can always stop the divorce process.
> 
> Even better would be to divorce and, at the very minimum, demote her to girlfriend and make her prove over a long time that she’s truly changed. And that’s assuming what she’s done is not a dealbreaker, which it would be for me and most others.


Yes. 

The onus on her to fix herself and prove herself worthy of a relationship. 

That's not going to happen by next weekend. It could realistically take years and that is for the small percentage of people that truly do turn their lives around and maintain it for the rest of their lives.


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## Shkb

I don’t think I’m capable of shouldering the burden right now of fixing her or working with her on her problems, with alcohol or attachment. I’m already realizing how much I’ve neglected myself working on our relationship and our future. She was a good partner in a lot of ways but also it seems addicted to validation and sexual attention and incapable or unwilling to draw boundaries or hard lines with other guys..Looking through her instagram it was almost daily communication with her coworker and very in-depth, lots of i miss you’s and even i love you’s. Flirty stuff. She was not drunk for a lot of this, just constantly communicating with other people, she has a million friends and is still in contact with a number of her exes. Is that normal? I’m not that close with any other girls or exes. I guess that’s just how she is. 

Her family is super screwed up so she has a history of making family of the people in her vicinity. She gets very close to people in short amount of time. I guess I liked that about her at first; my circle of friends grew a lot just from being with her. But ultimately I see it now, there’s no limit, she’s a collector and it seems like she needs a plan B or plan C or whatever, she can’t and won’t let go. So it’s pointless to keep confining her in a marriage with me and expect something different from her, and maybe selfish of me to try. I’m letting go starting today

I’m having a tough time being back at our apartment. Pictures everywhere, plans, furniture. Our cats. And the mental movies are making it difficult for me to focus on anything. I’m tempted to smoke a bowl but I haven’t touched anything in a while. I haven’t drank in almost a year and have no desire to. I hate alcohol more than ever now


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## hinterdir

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I guess I don’t know if she remembers or not but I don’t understand how she could completely forget, I guess xanax does that? So I guess she wants me to forgive right away for that reason and instead be mad at her coworker or something. But I don’t know what to believe right now.
> 
> She’s always been flirty, that’s just who she is, outgoing and gregarious and I always knew that about her so I wasn’t very controlling, I tried to trust her. She doesn’t have a great track record with past relationships and I have my own baggage but I thought we were something different, I mean we got married. Maybe too rash a decision and now I am really screwed up about our whole story
> 
> She is taking the dog and I am keeping the cat. I am devoted to the pets and I know she will be too but I am worried about what she will do if she doesn’t really stop drinking


Sorry to hear.
That sounds awful.
I wish you much healing.
She has broken all her wedding vows and you will be miserable with her.
I hope you end it.
She has destroyed her life...hopefully you do not ler her destroy yours.


----------



## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I don’t think I’m capable of shouldering the burden right now of fixing her or working with her on her problems, with alcohol or attachment. I’m already realizing how much I’ve neglected myself working on our relationship and our future. She was a good partner in a lot of ways but also it seems addicted to validation and sexual attention and incapable or unwilling to draw boundaries or hard lines with other guys..Looking through her instagram it was almost daily communication with her coworker and very in-depth, lots of i miss you’s and even i love you’s. Flirty stuff. She was not drunk for a lot of this, just constantly communicating with other people, she has a million friends and is still in contact with a number of her exes. Is that normal? I’m not that close with any other girls or exes. I guess that’s just how she is.
> 
> Her family is super screwed up so she has a history of making family of the people in her vicinity. She gets very close to people in short amount of time. I guess I liked that about her at first; my circle of friends grew a lot just from being with her. But ultimately I see it now, there’s no limit, she’s a collector and it seems like she needs a plan B or plan C or whatever, she can’t and won’t let go. So it’s pointless to keep confining her in a marriage with me and expect something different from her, and maybe selfish of me to try. I’m letting go starting today


That was about as much wisdom, enlightenment and self-awareness that I have ever seen by BS on this site. You are a very wised one. 

That doesn't necessarily make this any less painful or disruptive. But your vision is clear and you are very enlightened to your reality. My hat is off to you.


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## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I’m having a tough time being back at our apartment. Pictures everywhere, plans, furniture. Our cats. And the mental movies are making it difficult for me to focus on anything.


It is a loss. In a way it is a death. You will go through the same stages of grief that any significant loss will bring. 

It is not only the loss and death of a relationship and potentially a marriage,,, but it is also the loss of what you thought you had (she probably never was who you thought she was) but it is also the loss of a future that you thought you were going to have. 

It's a loss. Grieve it. Mourn it. Give it dignified funeral and burial. It's ok to even remember it fondly....... then move on and create new joys and enjoyments and build new relationships and create new futures. 

It may be sad and mournful but at this point she is destructive and toxic and it is not responsible or healthy of you to allow her to bring you down with her. If she is sinking to the bottom and drowning by her own actions, you cannot save her by drowning with her. 

Always save yourself first because you can't help anyone if you are sitting at the bottom yourself.


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## Prodigal

You realize you're married to an alcoholic, right? Let her promise you the moon, but until she starts taking ACTION to address her addiction, all you've got is b.s. Oh, and I know all about alkies. I married two of them and they both died from it. Lying is just what they do. Crazy stuff. Illogical stuff. Stuff you can't wrap your head around. Oh, and did I mention they just love to use people?

Don't be surprised. You are married to an alcoholic. And that's what they do.

P.S. - Don't try to figure her out, get her help, get her into detox, A.A., rehab, or whatever. There are consequences for her actions. Let her experience them for herself.


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## QuietRiot

Talker67 said:


> alcohol is a VERY strong drug, and many people simply can not handle it. they drink to excess, and do stupid things that they are ashamed about later on.
> 
> i personally would NOT do anything sudden here. I would work with her to get sober. Sign her up for AA. remove every drop of alcohol from the house. in a lucide moment of hers, have her give over all her passwords to any social media site, any communications apps. turn on phone tracking, and get a map of where she has been. Drive her to AA meetings, and back.
> 
> See if she can sober up to the point of being lucid all the time, THEN work out the marriage problems.
> You married her "in sickness and in health". Alcoholism is a sickness. So part of your oath is to see her thru.
> 
> Now if she starts backsliding, hiding things from you, communicating with men, getting drunk, skipping the AA classes, generally slutting around...then it is time to cut and run.


I’m sorry, choosing to drink and get penetrated in vehicles is not a sickness. That’s like saying being a drunk has no active decision making ability, like being a drunk cheater is an affliction with no choice, like cancer or MS. No. It is not a sickness. 
why does the betrayed have to always “think about their vows” while the cheater gets to stomp all over them. Is she honoring even ONE of her vows????


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## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Our lives are pretty intertwined


An Apartment and a dog and a cat is not intertwined, dude. Come on. Some of us have been married a quarter century, have kids, mortgages and lots of financial entanglements. That’s intertwined.

Just move on here! I mean chlamydia?! Seriously?

what more do you need? Quit trying to do a post mortem autopsy here. Move on, fix your picker, find a woman actually worth your time.


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## Thumos

She just hit three of the A’s that are marriage Enders - abuse, addiction and adultery. If a woman pulls off a triple, get rid of her.


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## jsmart

I agree that OP needs to not make this more than it is. A 3 year marriage with just an apartment lease to get out of, who gets the cat is not very intertwined.

you need to implement the 180 to detach. She will try to use your history together to get you to cave.

also don’t let anyone guilt you into making her drinking problem your responsibility. In sickness and health does not include adultery. She put your health at risk with her letting this guy raw dog her. You need to make sure she’s not pregnant. a court will rule it is your child until a test proves otherwise and will not allow a divorce to move forward.


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## Shkb

I’m confused if I should stay in our new town or not. We moved to a new state just 45 days ago. For her to pursue college and to be closer to family (both our sets of parents live in this state)

I’m tempted to quit our lease, pay any penalty just to get out. I don’t know what I’m doing here and I want to be and stay far away from her. My work has all gone online but is still in my old state; all my connections and friends are there. I have no one here and my family is hours away. I don’t know if I’m supposed to blaze a new trail and start a new life by myself here or just quit and go back where I lived for 13 years. I like it here but it’s new to me and I’m alone now

Yeah I don’t know, she just went to planned parenthood and got tested and everything, I assume they would find out if she was pregnant? Maybe not. I have a vasectomy and the OM is black (I’m white) so I don’t think paternity question would be an issue. I haven’t really thought of that yet.


----------



## Openminded

Go back to where you have friends.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Sounds like the POS is a bit of a player - getting and transmitting STDs. Is he married? His wife/partner needs to know.


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## Shkb

I talked to my Mom, who made the decision to divorce my alcoholic dad after 18 years, and she said I need to come home and talk to her in person. I’ve known her my whole life and will probably for the rest of it, small town, so I can’t shouldn’t do anything vicious like file papers and not make her my enemy, talk to her face to face and don’t waver, make a firm decision and don’t let her change my mind. I need to figure out what I want and state it clearly and move her out of this apartment and tell her to come get all her things asap. I can’t leave open the hope of reconciliation any longer because it makes me a victim and leaves her in control. I want to formally separate and get out of this lease and move somewhere on my own.

Her coworker is 12 years younger than me (I’m 34) and not partnered but yes I guess a player. I guess he lives back where I’m moving but I’m not planning in staying in touch with any of her friends, we have mutual friends and I am pretty close with her sister and her boyfriend and her kids. I don’t know what that’s going to look like, her sister texted me saying we’re family and love me and they’re here if I need them. But if I leave what are they to me anymore? I’m leaving them too I guess. I just can’t imagine living with this anymore and need at least a big break. I am still tempted to see a lawyer and file for D right away but my Mom said I should wait til the dust settles and the apartment and separation are sorted out, to be kind so I don’t end up in a prolonged fight with the person I’ve loved pretty much my whole life.


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## jsmart

You should pay the penalty to get out of the lease and go to where you have a support system. Your friends will be there for you. 

Also getting away from your STBX will help you detach quicker.


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## Shkb

I’m thinking the same thing. I have good friends there. I’m not sure what order to do things in but I will figure it out.


----------



## Shkb

I just really hope she doesn’t plan on going back there too to be with the OM. Ugh


----------



## Enigma32

Best thing you can do is talk to the lawyer right away. Listen to the lawyer's advice, no one else's. Some of us here have been through a divorce or two and we might know a bit about that sort of thing but a divorce lawyer has seen tens if not hundreds of divorces. You want someone like that in your corner ASAP so that you can make the most informed decisions moving forward. I'd recommend someone with a free consultation too, that way you can talk to them and get an idea of what you can expect. That's what I did and talking with a lawyer saved me from so many problems.


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## Diana7

Talker67 said:


> alcohol is a VERY strong drug, and many people simply can not handle it. they drink to excess, and do stupid things that they are ashamed about later on.
> 
> i personally would NOT do anything sudden here. I would work with her to get sober. Sign her up for AA. remove every drop of alcohol from the house. in a lucide moment of hers, have her give over all her passwords to any social media site, any communications apps. turn on phone tracking, and get a map of where she has been. Drive her to AA meetings, and back.
> 
> See if she can sober up to the point of being lucid all the time, THEN work out the marriage problems.
> You married her "in sickness and in health". Alcoholism is a sickness. So part of your oath is to see her thru.
> 
> Now if she starts backsliding, hiding things from you, communicating with men, getting drunk, skipping the AA classes, generally slutting around...then it is time to cut and run.


Its a choice to drink and its a choice or cheat and lie.


----------



## Cromer

I'm sorry that you're going through this with such an established relationship. Your wife getting an STD and exposing you prompted me to post. I divorced my cheating wife (x3, was clueless, got an STD) of 30 years, and I am in SO much of a better place today. You don't need this, build a new life. I did in my 50's and life is good. It's not as terrible as you think especially without kids involved. I hope that you find peace.


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## AmandaABoyer

It was really hard for you all this time. I've been married for several years. At first everything was fine with us, and later he began to say that I spend a lot of money. Although I received my salary and spent not his money. We had a lot of fights about this, as I wanted us to spend our money each. And he believed that the budget should be general. So we broke up a year ago.


----------



## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I have a vasectomy and the OM is black (I’m white) so I don’t think paternity question would be an issue. I haven’t really thought of that yet.


You need to see a family law and paternity attorney about that ASAP. In some jurisdictions a child brought into the marital home is considered the responsibility of the husband regardless of actual biological paternity. 

That means you can be stuck with the child's care and financial support even if it is obviously and objectively proven via DNA to not be your biological child. 

Horribly unfair and unconscionable in my opinion but fact nonetheless. 

You need to see a lawyer ASAP to determine your rights and responsibilities and make sure you are not paying for a child that is not yours for the next 18+ years.


----------



## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I talked to my Mom, who made the decision to divorce my alcoholic dad after 18 years, and she said I need to come home and talk to her in person. I’ve known her my whole life and will probably for the rest of it, small town, so I can’t shouldn’t do anything vicious like file papers and not make her my enemy, talk to her face to face and don’t waver, make a firm decision and don’t let her change my mind. I need to figure out what I want and state it clearly and move her out of this apartment and tell her to come get all her things asap. I can’t leave open the hope of reconciliation any longer because it makes me a victim and leaves her in control. I want to formally separate and get out of this lease and move somewhere on my own.
> 
> Her coworker is 12 years younger than me (I’m 34) and not partnered but yes I guess a player. I guess he lives back where I’m moving but I’m not planning in staying in touch with any of her friends, we have mutual friends and I am pretty close with her sister and her boyfriend and her kids. I don’t know what that’s going to look like, her sister texted me saying we’re family and love me and they’re here if I need them. But if I leave what are they to me anymore? I’m leaving them too I guess. I just can’t imagine living with this anymore and need at least a big break. I am still tempted to see a lawyer and file for D right away but my Mom said I should wait til the dust settles and the apartment and separation are sorted out, to be kind so I don’t end up in a prolonged fight with the person I’ve loved pretty much my whole life.


You have no real entanglements and intertwining here. You simply have resting inertia and status quo. 

Your job is online. You can sublet the apt, or worst case scenario pay full rent for the remainder of your lease, which you can make back up in time. 

no kids. 

If you are both animal lovers you can work out some kind of shared cat custody which will last MAYBE about two weeks before one of you simply hands it over to the other and then you/she can go to the pound and get another. 

You are simply sitting on resting inertia and you're still a bit addicted to Hopium which is making you "hope" that this is all bad dream and that she is going materialize infront of you as the saint that you somehow fooled yourself into thinking she was, like some kind of vision of the Virgin Mary appearing before poor shepard children. 

Wake up. Wipe the sleep from your eyes and get out of bed.


----------



## jsmart

You will need to concentrate on Recovering who you were before she came into your life. Start a workout regimen, take a course in something that interest you. Strengthening yourself in mind and body will help your confidence. 

In time you will be able to date but now is not the time. First renew yourself and then in time, the right woman will come into your life. For now , reconnect with your buds


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## oldtruck

no kids no financial attachments, she is a drunk, alcoholic, dump her.


----------



## Shkb

Thank you for all the replies. I just had a talk with my other brother who was a lot of help and had a lot of kind words to boost my self-esteem about what a good and generous person I’ve been with everyone I love. I need to see my self-worth.

I’ve given her a lot of chances, being her floor before she actually hits bottom. I’m not sure whether I should go talk to her in person or not like my Mom says. Now I’m thinking I should just get a uhaul, pack all the things that are definitely mine, and go back where we moved from, where my brother and close friends are, and throw myself into my work and play. My brother says I should leave her things, contact her to tell her to come get them, contact my landlord to say I’m moving out and negotiate the terms and just bounce, and not tell her where I’m going. I need to put myself first for once

I am not one to wallow in pity so I’m already sure I will take care of myself. I look forward to being in a relationship with myself only for a change. I have some money saved up so I have options. My family doesn’t seem to think a lawyer is important right now but I am taking all your advice and setting up an appointment this week, just to get a professional’s perspective, and see what my best move is with that. Talking with my family today has been a huge help and reminded me of how they see me, not behind or connected with my partner but as me. I’m lucky to have them. And all you for responding to me and helping me work this out as I go. Thank you


----------



## Prodigal

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I’m not sure whether I should go talk to her in person or not


People will ultimately do what they want to do no matter how much advice they receive. But I think you need to seriously consider her history before you go to talk to her (if you decide to take that route). She'll promise you whatever it takes to rope you back in. Chances are, she'll bring up your long history together, her promise to get sober, her regrets for what she's done, etc. Thing is, an addict needs an enabler. You've been hers for too long.

Walk away from this after you get sound advice from an attorney. Respect her right to destroy her own life.


----------



## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Thank you for all the replies. I just had a talk with my other brother who was a lot of help and had a lot of kind words to boost my self-esteem about what a good and generous person I’ve been with everyone I love. I need to see my self-worth.
> 
> I’ve given her a lot of chances, being her floor before she actually hits bottom. I’m not sure whether I should go talk to her in person or not like my Mom says. Now I’m thinking I should just get a uhaul, pack all the things that are definitely mine, and go back where we moved from, where my brother and close friends are, and throw myself into my work and play. My brother says I should leave her things, contact her to tell her to come get them, contact my landlord to say I’m moving out and negotiate the terms and just bounce, and not tell her where I’m going. I need to put myself first for once
> 
> I am not one to wallow in pity so I’m already sure I will take care of myself. I look forward to being in a relationship with myself only for a change. I have some money saved up so I have options. My family doesn’t seem to think a lawyer is important right now but I am taking all your advice and setting up an appointment this week, just to get a professional’s perspective, and see what my best move is with that. Talking with my family today has been a huge help and reminded me of how they see me, not behind or connected with my partner but as me. I’m lucky to have them. And all you for responding to me and helping me work this out as I go. Thank you


There really isn’t anything for you to say to her and there is no benefit to you in talking to her in person. 

She will try to use sex and to lovebomb you to get you to stay. If things don’t go her way, she may even try to accuse you of violence, harassment or threatening her. 

There is no benefit and only potential harm in meeting with her now.

As far as a lawyer, you absolutely DO need to at least have a consult to determine your rights and responsibilities if she is knocked up as well as what you may be on the hook for in regards to her insurance and such.

If the court determines her to need substance abuse treatment, you may or may not be on the hook for providing the insurance for that treatment.

Like I said above, divorce laws and courts are not always fair or right. 

So you need to at least consult an attorney and get things started on the right path and know what your rights and responsibilities are. 

Since you don’t have a house or kids or much shared property and have only been married a few years, you may not need much legal representation and you may be able to do a lot of this yourselves if she cooperated and stays sane.

But drunks do a lot of whackadoodle things and their brains do not function the way a normal, healthy person’s does so things can go south real fast and you’ll need someone you can call on real fast if she accuses you or raping her or that she is pregnant and names you as the father.


----------



## Openminded

I disagree with your mom. What would be the point of talking at this point? Getting out ASAP — legally, physically and emotionally— would be best for you.


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## Shkb

Yeah I think my mom has watched too many movies ha. I have no desire to see my WW for a long time. I will make that clear through a text when the time comes and I will talk to a lawyer to see what I should do. I don’t want to be legally responsible for any of her further or recent mistakes. I want to be in control and draw my boundaries and I instinctively feel my first step is extricating myself. Maybe I should gather all my things, get the move on and then give her the choice to keep this apartment? I don’t know what order I should do things in. I guess the lawyer will help me with that. Making some phone calls tomorrow


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## Enigma32

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Yeah I think my mom has watched too many movies ha. I have no desire to see my WW for a long time. I will make that clear through a text when the time comes and I will talk to a lawyer to see what I should do. I don’t want to be legally responsible for any of her further or recent mistakes. I want to be in control and draw my boundaries and I instinctively feel my first step is extricating myself. Maybe I should gather all my things, get the move on and then give her the choice to keep this apartment? I don’t know what order I should do things in. I guess the lawyer will help me with that. Making some phone calls tomorrow


Yep, lawyer first, then decide everything else. At this point, it's about protecting yourself as much as possible.


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## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Yeah I think my mom has watched too many movies ha. I have no desire to see my WW for a long time. I will make that clear through a text when the time comes and I will talk to a lawyer to see what I should do. I don’t want to be legally responsible for any of her further or recent mistakes. I want to be in control and draw my boundaries and I instinctively feel my first step is extricating myself. Maybe I should gather all my things, get the move on and then give her the choice to keep this apartment? I don’t know what order I should do things in. I guess the lawyer will help me with that. Making some phone calls tomorrow


Lawyer first. 

Every instinct and presumption you have about your relationship and divorce will be wrong and can bite you in the butt. 

You have never done this before and have no legal education or training.

A divorce lawyer has been through prelaw, then law school then specialized training in family and then hopefully has had years of experience and has done hundreds of cases in your jurisdiction. 

So there’s no question that a proper family law attorney that practices in your legal jurisdiction should be your first step.


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## sunsetmist

Lawyer first--will help with many issues. You ask many folks what to do and you get many different answers--it can be confusing. Your mom is a different generation and remembers her as your first love. As do you--most have a sort of connection to first 'love' when there was little responsibility and lots of feel goods. This is essentially shallow, false relationship. 

Her pattern of behavior suggests BPD--read about it if you wish. Then there is the alcoholism, adultery, and abuse. Hope you realize that mental and emotional abuse are devastating, not just physical abuse. 

Do work on yourself. You should have no guilt!! If fact, you would do her harm if you thought you should 'save' her. IMO: this includes making a decision and sticking to it. Have confidence that your gut is right. So, you do your best and we will support you.


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## Shkb

I’ve reached out to a lot of people today. My friends have my back. The replies on this thread and support from you all have really helped my thought patterns today and I don’t feel alone at all. Feels good.

I will definitely be talking to a lawyer tomorrow, I guess I’ll just google one? Idk if there are review sites or something and I deactivated my Facebook. My gut says run, I feel like this is a wake up call and I’ve been sleeping, dreaming about peaceful days gone by and nice memories with our pets and adventures. We had a lot in common too and I’m going to struggle with missing her as a companion. But I can’t compromise myself and be with her like this anymore, I need to take this opportunity to make non-negotiable boundaries.

My good friend has a place for me to stay in my old town so I’ll also start packing my things tomorrow. I need to get out of here and restart solo, I know I do.


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## Prodigal

One thing that I did just before I left my husband was to get his name off the title of my car and to get my name off the title of his truck. This may not apply to you, but if it does, please take care of that matter. Why? Because if she gets in an accident and your name is on her vehicle title, you can be held liable for the damage she inflicts.

If you have anything in joint names, start separating those. Look for a family law attorney in your area who has good Google reviews. Given the short duration of your marriage, you should be able to make a clean break.

I wish you the very best. Keep us posted.


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## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Yeah I think my mom has watched too many movies ha. I have no desire to see my WW for a long time. I will make that clear through a text when the time comes and I will talk to a lawyer to see what I should do. I don’t want to be legally responsible for any of her further or recent mistakes. I want to be in control and draw my boundaries and I instinctively feel my first step is extricating myself. Maybe I should gather all my things, get the move on and then give her the choice to keep this apartment? I don’t know what order I should do things in. I guess the lawyer will help me with that. Making some phone calls tomorrow


Good for you! I just want to say I’m proud of you. This takes guts and bravery. You know and feel what you need to do and you’re doing it. Bravo!


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## Thound

Please forgive my bluntness, but she is not a flirt. She's a ****. A flirt flirts. A **** sleeps with people the flirt with.


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## Buffer

So sorry brother. 
How come it is ok to be flirty with her ex BFs as well as the dude she banged? 
She has no boundaries. Once a ring is put on it the boundaries should have been established. Alcohol and NP drugs are never an excuse just look at the gaols. 
Once you get guidance from a lawyer please then start the separation, not before. 
Regardless you need your space and she needs to know this. Once separated she can do what ever she wants and that includes going back to your last place and continue a relationship with her AP. 
Just exercise, drink water, eat healthy and no recreational drugs. 
One day at a time
Buffer


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## oldshirt

Thound said:


> Please forgive my bluntness, but she is not a flirt. She's a **. A flirt flirts. A ** sleeps with people the flirt with.


Some people are just naturally engaging and flirtatious and that is how they talk to old ladies and their Uncle Myron and the guy at the corner Quick Trip.

But then their are others where it is purpose-driven to give them validation and ego strokes and to acquire a reserve list of orbiters that they can call up at a moment’s notice if they some action. 

And then there are those that get it on in cars with playa’s in the middle of the night after a drunken party while their spouse is home alone in bed waiting for them. 

The OP’s hopefully STBX is in the latter 2 categories.


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## Talker67

QuietRiot said:


> I’m sorry, choosing to drink and get penetrated in vehicles is not a sickness. That’s like saying being a drunk has no active decision making ability, like being a drunk cheater is an affliction with no choice, like cancer or MS. No. It is not a sickness.
> why does the betrayed have to always “think about their vows” while the cheater gets to stomp all over them. Is she honoring even ONE of her vows????


and i understand your point of view.
i am just saying that not everyone thinks that way, and some would give her a chance to get mentally cured, before kicking her azz to the curb.


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## Thumos

Leave. Where you are now is a trigger and will continue to be.
Go back to your support network and ghost this harpy out of your life. Once you get your sea legs under you, Then you can move anywhere you want.


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## Thumos

Your mom wants you home so she can look you in the eye and give it to you straight. Your mom is a woman and understands precisely what is going on here, and has also gone thru the difficult life decision of severing ties with an addict. You need to listen to her.


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## Thumos

Talker67 said:


> some would give her a chance to get mentally cured, before kicking her azz to the curb


Some would and they would be unwise to do so. He isn’t kicking her to the curb. He is healthily detaching from her and ending the relationship so he doesn’t waste more years of his own precious life.


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## ABHale

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I don’t think I’m capable of shouldering the burden right now of fixing her or working with her on her problems, with alcohol or attachment. I’m already realizing how much I’ve neglected myself working on our relationship and our future. She was a good partner in a lot of ways but also it seems addicted to validation and sexual attention and incapable or unwilling to draw boundaries or hard lines with other guys..Looking through her instagram it was almost daily communication with her coworker and very in-depth, lots of i miss you’s and even i love you’s. Flirty stuff. She was not drunk for a lot of this, just constantly communicating with other people, she has a million friends and is still in contact with a number of her exes. Is that normal? I’m not that close with any other girls or exes. I guess that’s just how she is.
> 
> Her family is super screwed up so she has a history of making family of the people in her vicinity. She gets very close to people in short amount of time. I guess I liked that about her at first; my circle of friends grew a lot just from being with her. But ultimately I see it now, there’s no limit, she’s a collector and it seems like she needs a plan B or plan C or whatever, she can’t and won’t let go. So it’s pointless to keep confining her in a marriage with me and expect something different from her, and maybe selfish of me to try. I’m letting go starting today
> 
> I’m having a tough time being back at our apartment. Pictures everywhere, plans, furniture. Our cats. And the mental movies are making it difficult for me to focus on anything. I’m tempted to smoke a bowl but I haven’t touched anything in a while. I haven’t drank in almost a year and have no desire to. I hate alcohol more than ever now



Stay strong friend and stay away from the weed. Reach out to a friend to help with this.


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## ABHale

QuietRiot said:


> I’m sorry, choosing to drink and get penetrated in vehicles is not a sickness. That’s like saying being a drunk has no active decision making ability, like being a drunk cheater is an affliction with no choice, like cancer or MS. No. It is not a sickness.
> why does the betrayed have to always “think about their vows” while the cheater gets to stomp all over them. Is she honoring even ONE of her vows????


Wish I could like this a million times!!!!


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## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> her sister texted me saying we’re family and love me and they’re here if I need them. But if I leave what are they to me anymore?


I’m glad her family is not trying to pressure you. Hopefully they know the reality of what has happened? It’s great she offered that support. Gently I do want to prepare you that eventually they will circle the wagons around her, because they are her family. That’s what families do and it is why we have families.


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## Thumos

Avoid substances, either alcohol or otherwise. There’s a mighty temptation to self medicate. Don’t give in. Drink lots of water and sleep as much as you need. Take naps if you can. You will probably feel exhausted which is your body processing the emotional shock. Also I don’t detect much anger in your posts, which is to be expected. I want to prepare you for the anger when it comes. Detaching and grey rocking her will help enormously with the anger but when it comes allow yourself to feel it. It’s not a cover for anything else. Anger in these situations is a primary emotion we justifiably feel.


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## Thumos

I just want to strengthen your resolve: the way this went down in a car etc I think indicates a high probability she’s done this before. I want you to think about that. It means this is pervasive and not about the alcohol. This is a woman trying to fill emptiness (literally) with male validation and with substances. That makes her unsafe at any speed and an unsuitable life partner. It could be that losing you is the wake up call she needs to dig deep and pull herself together to live a better life. But it’s highly unlikely. You would have spent years more of your life getting sucked into the vortex of her destructive personality.


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## ABHale

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I talked to my Mom, who made the decision to divorce my alcoholic dad after 18 years, and she said I need to come home and talk to her in person. I’ve known her my whole life and will probably for the rest of it, small town, so I can’t shouldn’t do anything vicious like file papers and not make her my enemy, talk to her face to face and don’t waver, make a firm decision and don’t let her change my mind. I need to figure out what I want and state it clearly and move her out of this apartment and tell her to come get all her things asap. I can’t leave open the hope of reconciliation any longer because it makes me a victim and leaves her in control. I want to formally separate and get out of this lease and move somewhere on my own.
> 
> Her coworker is 12 years younger than me (I’m 34) and not partnered but yes I guess a player. I guess he lives back where I’m moving but I’m not planning in staying in touch with any of her friends, we have mutual friends and I am pretty close with her sister and her boyfriend and her kids. I don’t know what that’s going to look like, her sister texted me saying we’re family and love me and they’re here if I need them. But if I leave what are they to me anymore? I’m leaving them too I guess. I just can’t imagine living with this anymore and need at least a big break. I am still tempted to see a lawyer and file for D right away but my Mom said I should wait til the dust settles and the apartment and separation are sorted out, to be kind so I don’t end up in a prolonged fight with the person I’ve loved pretty much my whole life.


You need to wait til you talk your lawyer and get your marching orders from them. Your lawyer will let you know what you can do legally.

You know you wife’s actions are who she is. Your mom doesn’t understand this yet. She doesn’t know the whole history of your wife. If you let her read the messages between her and her ex’s might open her eyes.


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## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I don’t think I’m capable of shouldering the burden right now of fixing her or working with her on her problems, with alcohol or attachment.


Not now. Not ever. Any advice you have received here to not act suddenly or to drive her to AA meetings and the like is absolute nonsense. Ignore it.

acting quickly with an attorney’s help is a necessity. The quicker the better.

I say this from personal experience to help you avoid mistakes people like me made in the early days of shock and trauma.

she had raw dog sex, got an STD, then exposed you. She knew the risks and was sober when she exposed you. That’s a marriage ender right there and should be.

she shattered the vows and already unilaterally divorced you in the spiritual and emotional sense. the moment she let another man enter her. Now the marriage is a tissue thin piece of paper and that’s all.

The vows are torn asunder. The marriage is dead. Even if you wanted to stay with her you would have to start over from scratch and she would need to be a deeply repentant, truly remorseful person willing to offer recompense for her violation.

She’s far from that person, which is rare in any case.

you are under no obligations to her. Just work with an attorney and get it done.


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## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> guess I don’t know if she remembers or not but I don’t understand how she could completely forget,


She remembers. Come on, now. Sounds like it is starting to sink in for you and you are beginning to deal with this, but she remembers. Do you think she remembered when she got tested?


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## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> So I guess she wants me to forgive right away


This is called rug sweeping. You should look it up.

one thing you will need to do is forgive her, but that is for later and comes with time and work on your part. Forgiving will be easier and faster if you sever the ties that bind and essentially ghost her. Forgiveness isn’t the same as staying with her so don’t confuse the two. you can forgive and leave her behind and you should.


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## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I’m not sure whether I should go talk to her in person or not like my Mom says.


I misread your earlier comment on what your Mom is asking. Your Mom doesn’t know the circumstances here.

look, lots of people insist on no contact after the vows have been torn asunder. This happens EVEN in cases where couples reconcile (which you should not do — RUN).

there is nothing wrong and everything right with insisting on NO CONTACT for as long as you need, perhaps forever.

you don’t have kids together. There’s no reason for you to have contact. tell her to work thru your attorney.


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## Thumos

Just one more thing: do a thought experiment imagining if you stay with her. If you’re honest with yourself and can really imagine this then you’ll see yourself a few years from now miserable and at times hating her. That’s no way to live. 

Once a woman has crossed the Rubicon and given herself to another man, it’s basically impossible for a man to take her back wholeheartedly. Always your spirit will feel diminished and the relationship sullied. You’ll see her as damaged goods. Now you occasionally read posts from men who say this isn’t so and that they can get past the sex.

I don’t know what their experience is, but in my personal experience, the Cro Magnon brute who still lives inside you WILL NOT allow you a moment’s peace if you try to go that route. Absent a frontal lobotomy, it is virtually impossible — and I think far too many are whistling past the graveyard and ignoring powerful primal biological directives.

Trying to “trick” the brain with talk therapy only goes so far when dealing with that and in my experience leads to a tortuous cognitive dissonance.

I know what I’m talking about because I tried for FOUR YEARS.

If you make a clean break and move on, you can detach quickly and heal more quickly. And think of her less and less as you take on new adventures and relationships in your life. Forgiveness will come more easily this way.


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## ABHale

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I’ve reached out to a lot of people today. My friends have my back. The replies on this thread and support from you all have really helped my thought patterns today and I don’t feel alone at all. Feels good.
> 
> I will definitely be talking to a lawyer tomorrow, I guess I’ll just google one? Idk if there are review sites or something and I deactivated my Facebook. My gut says run, I feel like this is a wake up call and I’ve been sleeping, dreaming about peaceful days gone by and nice memories with our pets and adventures. We had a lot in common too and I’m going to struggle with missing her as a companion. But I can’t compromise myself and be with her like this anymore, I need to take this opportunity to make non-negotiable boundaries.
> 
> My good friend has a place for me to stay in my old town so I’ll also start packing my things tomorrow. I need to get out of here and restart solo, I know I do.


Do a local search on google for divorce lawyer. There are reviews there.


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## re16

You are on the right path. The mental image you have had of your relationship with her was not the real picture, which is finally coming into focus for you. Often we put those we love on a pedestal and look at the good more than the bad, its human nature.

This situation will only get worse with her if you stay.

If she is truly committed to fixing her drinking problem, you would think losing a husband over alcohol would be a major wake up call, and that when you hear from her in a year or so from now she will have been sober for a year. We all know that is not going to happen, so just save yourself the drama and get out.

She is in a dangerous and reckless emotional state and the sooner you get documents filed, the sooner you limit any financial exposure from her getting sued over something she's done.

Others have said it, but I think it is very important to remember that what she does when uninhibited is what she thinks about doing sober.

Next time, you need to be on the lookout for such red flags and don't blow past them. You've dodged a bullet with this one.

I agree that you should go back to your old town where you have a network. One thing to add to the to do list is to kill that weed habit... it is normal-ish in early 20s, but not really part of the game of a successful 34 year old....


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## Shkb

Thank you. I’ve decided to stay completely sober so I can stay in touch with myself. I am no longer tempted and believe it would be a bad choice and cloud my judgment for me to give in to vices.

I set up a free video chat consultation with two different lawyers and will see what I can figure out. I’ve made a lot of moves today including finding an apartment I like in my old town, getting in touch with my former landlord so I can get his good reference, and packing a lot of stuff so I can get out of here asap. I’ll send rent for October and let my current landlord know I’m leaving an abusive situation. Hopefully he has some compassion. I’d like to move straight into my own place so the cats aren’t too traumatized.

I am not even thinking about staying or getting back together, 0%. I am just focusing on the process and trying to keep moving forward on my own. Her friends are calling me today offering an ear but I don’t want her to know what I’m doing until all my ducks are in a row. I am a little out of touch with my emotions and anticipate they may come in waves and be difficult to deal with but at least I have people on my side I can talk to. They and this forum are helping me a lot


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## ABHale

Just keep moving forward.

With your soon to be ex, just be honest with her about it being over and that you are moving back. You can do this anyway you want to. Just wait til you are ready to move back and do it on your way out. That way you can be gone if she comes looking for you.


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## Shkb

Yes, that’s my plan. I need to stay until at least next week, we had just bought a new couch and they are coming to pick it back up on the 29th. And I guess I need to line up a moving company to help me load the uhaul, some things are just too heavy for me. Or maybe I should come back in October to complete that process and instead take a drive to my old town to drop off my cats and car once I secure a new apartment. Not sure yet what order to do things in but I’m figuring it out


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## Taxman

So far so good. I assume that you are making all of your moves behind her back. Be prepared for the fireworks when she is served and discovers that you are fairly well along in your plans. Had a WW who thought that her husband was just chewing away at the **** sandwich she had prepared. She assumed that she could just **** him into submission. So, one fine morning, she is in the bathroom, and calls out to him to get her phone. No answer. She walks into his bedroom. The bed is stripped. The closet is empty. She walks through the entire house, no sign. Then the garage. His car and tools are gone. Now she knows. She calls his cell to find that it is ringing on the floor of his bathroom. Sometime that afternoon she gets a text from an unrecognized number. Tells her that he has moved out and the D is on its way. She complained bitterly to anyone who would listen. That kept up for a day, til the group email arrived. Hubby told his story to everyone on their shared email list. He knew full well that AP's wife was one of the recipients. He made it his business to call APs wife to soften the blow. She remarked that there would be no soft blows for her husband, she intended to fully bankrupt him, and leave him flat and busted. She fully intended to make his ex W's life a living, breathing hell.


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## Diana7

Talker67 said:


> and i understand your point of view.
> i am just saying that not everyone thinks that way, and some would give her a chance to get mentally cured, before kicking her azz to the curb.


She will still have cheated no matter what happens to her drinking.


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## Shkb

Wow. I don’t know what to expect but I don’t really care about things or money, I don’t have much anyway. I would hope she has the decency to not make it too ugly; after all, I’ve done nothing wrong and never hurt her in any big way. If she turns on me I am afraid of what she’s capable of; her drunk self has been violent with me before (punched me in the face once, threw a glass through a window once). I am intending to be out the door and on my way to somewhere she can’t find me when I let her know to come get her stuff from the apartment. I’ll do it all the same day in a week or so. I don’t want a confrontation, especially if she’s drunk. Where we stand now when we last texted is that I need a long period of no contact and she is respecting that. When that turns into I’m moving out and don’t want to see her I don’t know what she’s capable of but I’m trying to not let fear rule me and I will not be mean, just serious and direct


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## Thumos

The numbness you are feeling is normal. The body actually floods with its own numbing agents in the wake of emotional trauma. This will clear in the next few months and you’ll begin to feel sadness and anger and other things. Don’t try to push those feelings away and deal with them - it will be easier to process those feelings when you don’t have to be around her day after day.


----------



## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Thank you. I’ve decided to stay completely sober so I can stay in touch with myself. I am no longer tempted and believe it would be a bad choice and cloud my judgment for me to give in to vices.
> 
> I set up a free video chat consultation with two different lawyers and will see what I can figure out. I’ve made a lot of moves today including finding an apartment I like in my old town, getting in touch with my former landlord so I can get his good reference, and packing a lot of stuff so I can get out of here asap. I’ll send rent for October and let my current landlord know I’m leaving an abusive situation. Hopefully he has some compassion. I’d like to move straight into my own place so the cats aren’t too traumatized.
> 
> I am not even thinking about staying or getting back together, 0%. I am just focusing on the process and trying to keep moving forward on my own. Her friends are calling me today offering an ear but I don’t want her to know what I’m doing until all my ducks are in a row. I am a little out of touch with my emotions and anticipate they may come in waves and be difficult to deal with but at least I have people on my side I can talk to. They and this forum are helping me a lot


Her friends are offering you an ear to give her an idea of what is coming her way and in turn try to talk you out of leaving. You know what you’re doing, stay strong!


----------



## Taxman

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Wow. I don’t know what to expect but I don’t really care about things or money, I don’t have much anyway. I would hope she has the decency to not make it too ugly; after all, I’ve done nothing wrong and never hurt her in any big way. If she turns on me I am afraid of what she’s capable of; her drunk self has been violent with me before (punched me in the face once, threw a glass through a window once). I am intending to be out the door and on my way to somewhere she can’t find me when I let her know to come get her stuff from the apartment. I’ll do it all the same day in a week or so. I don’t want a confrontation, especially if she’s drunk. Where we stand now when we last texted is that I need a long period of no contact and she is respecting that. When that turns into I’m moving out and don’t want to see her I don’t know what she’s capable of but I’m trying to not let fear rule me and I will not be mean, just serious and direct


Given this statement, please consult with an attorney. Usually a first consultation is free. You may need a restraining order. If she has violent tendencies, you need to protect yourself and your possessions. There are way too many pitfalls here for you to do a sep or D without crossing her path, and possibly getting assaulted or worse, having a false DV claim against you. To that end, you will need a VAR and your cell recording video at all times when you are in her presence. Please arrange for your phone to record every single encounter. Best scenario, nothing happens. Worst scenario? CYA. Please.


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## jlg07

Also, do NOT hesitate to call the cops if she is drunk and assaults you. You should NOT have to put up with that.


----------



## Evinrude58

Daytrip said:


> I'm going against the grain here. I've been down your road. With the STD part too. You obviously love her. So you have it on your heart to forgive. The next part you can't control. At some point she will need to understand your pain and be willing to earn your trust. I know the xanax and alcohol part too. It's a tough road.


Omg


----------



## Evinrude58

Talker67 said:


> alcohol is a VERY strong drug, and many people simply can not handle it. they drink to excess, and do stupid things that they are ashamed about later on.
> 
> i personally would NOT do anything sudden here. I would work with her to get sober. Sign her up for AA. remove every drop of alcohol from the house. in a lucide moment of hers, have her give over all her passwords to any social media site, any communications apps. turn on phone tracking, and get a map of where she has been. Drive her to AA meetings, and back.
> 
> See if she can sober up to the point of being lucid all the time, THEN work out the marriage problems.
> You married her "in sickness and in health". Alcoholism is a sickness. So part of your oath is to see her thru.
> 
> Now if she starts backsliding, hiding things from you, communicating with men, getting drunk, skipping the AA classes, generally slutting around...then it is time to cut and run.


Omg


----------



## Evinrude58

Just read your whole thread. Your wife has a LONG history of cheating on you that you KNOW about. Kissed your best friend(probably a lot more you don’t know). She’s flirty(uh huh).
She has an affair going with her coworker that she screwed in the back of a car. She’s been flirting and having affairs even before you got married, then through the marriage.
Let’s add she’s a drunk and regardless of the reason, has no job. She could be working if she wanted to. She doesn’t. She’d rather watch Netflix and chill. 
I can’t fathom even considering doing anything but divorcing her and I believe you need to do it as fast as possible.
Talk to her in person? I disagree for all the reasons everyone has told you.

I also believe you will hear from your hopefully ex wife years into the future.
Because she will never find a chump that loves her like you did. 

Last of all, I believe she knew about having sex with the guy, and I pretty much don’t believe at all that someone “doesn’t remember” having sex with anyone when they’re drunk. If they were that drunk, they’d be asleep.
But after you calling her and her lying? Oh yeah, she banged the guy, probably after you called, even.

your wife has EARNED a new title, that I believe she deserves. EX WIFE.
You shouldn’t waste your life with a serial cheater. She is.

im glad you have chosen to divorce her and ignore her friends.


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## oldshirt

Talker67 said:


> and i understand your point of view.
> i am just saying that not everyone thinks that way, and some would give her a chance to get mentally cured, before kicking her azz to the curb.


Many give chance after chance to get “cured” before they save themselves. In the mean time they live with torment, abuse, adultery, unemployment. Shelling out bail money, Loss of friends and family and all of the other problems and toxicity of dealing with a drunk/addict. 

The more practical, prudent and sensical course of action is to separate oneself from the destructive person and toxic environment and consider another chance if that person has gone through treatment and has shown consistent track record of sober and responsible behavior.


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## Shkb

I am starting to paradoxically feel very thankful for this std. Otherwise I would be with this person indefinitely, weathering the storms as they came, squeezing out drops of ‘happiness’ along the way and thinking it was always going to get better. And I never would have known she did it in the backseat of OM’s car that night. Would have been their dirty little secret forever. Thank god for this std actually. Ha. Unreal

I’m doing 2 free video chats with lawyers in the morning. I’m going to be asking all about the divorce process. Even with just a few days to myself it’s like I’m climbing out of a cave. I didn’t even realize what a suffocating environment I was living in anyway. I’m starting to feel like myself and feeling quite optimistic about my future. I read through my lease terms and with a 60 day notice I can vacate, so likely will only owe for Oct & Nov and get my security deposit back (I paid it, out of my bank account)

I know I’m done. Maybe the writing has been on the wall for some time and I kept erasing it. Trying to keep the good times rolling. It’s unfortunate that even with a good partner like me my STBX couldn’t escape her old destructive patterns. I feel sorry for her. But I am also to feel pretty shocked and angry by how low she was capable of going. I can’t believe she could lie so easily, and about something so nasty, right to my face over and over and just pretend nothing happened. Who was I even with? Feels like a stranger now, an actress. She even had the OM over one last time before we moved so I could say goodbye and play guitar with him one more time. I bet it turned her on. Really grosses me out now that I think back. She’s got some serious issues. I’m going to be aggressively taking steps away so I’m not the one who has to deal with them anymore.

I put a deposit on an apartment in my old town today of $500. My credit is good and I have good rental history before I break this lease ugh. So I’ll be out of here in a week’s time and NOT looking back


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## Evinrude58

Wait until you’re at 50,000 ft and with a good person—- you will really start to see her as she really is. I see my ex wife now regularly. She works at my place of employment. I don’t even think she’s attractive anymore. She’s like an ugly stranger that I never want to know or talk to. It’s amazing how knowing what’s inside a person does to their outward appearance.
You will get over this and be happier.


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## Wolfman1968

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I am starting to paradoxically feel very thankful for this std. Otherwise I would be with this person indefinitely, weathering the storms as they came, squeezing out drops of ‘happiness’ along the way and thinking it was always going to get better. And I never would have known she did it in the backseat of OM’s car that night. Would have been their dirty little secret forever. Thank god for this std actually. Ha. Unreal
> 
> I’m doing 2 free video chats with lawyers in the morning. I’m going to be asking all about the divorce process. Even with just a few days to myself it’s like I’m climbing out of a cave. I didn’t even realize what a suffocating environment I was living in anyway. I’m starting to feel like myself and feeling quite optimistic about my future. I read through my lease terms and with a 60 day notice I can vacate, so likely will only owe for Oct & Nov and get my security deposit back (I paid it, out of my bank account)
> 
> I know I’m done. Maybe the writing has been on the wall for some time and I kept erasing it. Trying to keep the good times rolling. It’s unfortunate that even with a good partner like me my STBX couldn’t escape her old destructive patterns. I feel sorry for her. But I am also to feel pretty shocked and angry by how low she was capable of going. I can’t believe she could lie so easily, and about something so nasty, right to my face over and over and just pretend nothing happened. Who was I even with? Feels like a stranger now, an actress. She even had the OM over one last time before we moved so I could say goodbye and play guitar with him one more time. I bet it turned her on. Really grosses me out now that I think back. She’s got some serious issues. I’m going to be aggressively taking steps away so I’m not the one who has to deal with them anymore.
> 
> I put a deposit on an apartment in my old town today of $500. My credit is good and I have good rental history before I break this lease ugh. So I’ll be out of here in a week’s time and NOT looking back


I think your legal consultation will be very important in making your decision about where to live.

I think I read that you've only been living in your current state for 45 days or so. In many states, that is not enough residency time to be able to apply for a divorce. You may need to file in the state that you just moved from. Talk to your attorneys, but make sure they know how long you have lived at your current address.


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## Divinely Favored

Thumos said:


> I just want to strengthen your resolve: the way this went down in a car etc I think indicates a high probability she’s done this before. I want you to think about that. It means this is pervasive and not about the alcohol. This is a woman trying to fill emptiness (literally) with male validation and with substances. That makes her unsafe at any speed and an unsuitable life partner. It could be that losing you is the wake up call she needs to dig deep and pull herself together to live a better life. But it’s highly unlikely. You would have spent years more of your life getting sucked into the vortex of her destructive personality.


And being he called her and she tpld him they were talking....she remembers what she did. She is full of crap saying she had to ask OM if it happened. Taking 40 min to get home when they are 10 min away. Most likely going over story or what if she gets pregnant with his kid. Or if she comes back to visit friends they can set time to hook up again. 
Of course she knew and im sure wanted to,being he was continually being in appropriate and groping her at job and she did not bring it to mgmt attention. She just wanted a going away present and he gave her a bonus STD.

I say if she truely was not aware then go file rape charges on coworker. Bet she would not.


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## Shkb

I'm starting to look back at things and realize she was lying the whole time. Her distance and anxiety and lack of motivation once we moved into our new place had everything to do with the fact she was living a lie. You can't just forget that it happened, that doesn't sound possible. If she did she would be angry with him once he supposedly admitted it and calling him a rapist. But she didn't. She was still texting him saying she missed him. 

My talk with the lawyer today was very necessary. Thank you all for giving me that advice. I filled a page with notes and he's giving me a separation agreement to start working on. Mostly he gave me advice about our shared assets (furniture, pets) and my money. She may demand alimony due to our discrepancy of income, which is apparently 22% of what the difference is for half our marriage term. But when I move out I'm going to offer her the furniture. I don't care at all about stuff. She's the materialistic one anyway. And money comes and goes, I can always re-earn it. I'm not too worried. My sanity and safety is far more important to me and is actually priceless. The lawyer actually reminded me of that. He said don't be in a hurry to fast-track anything right now. Focus on getting some stability in my life, getting out of my current lease and into a new place. He also said I am in control and dictate the amount and kind of communication I have with her. If she love-bombs me or tries to get back in, he said I can shut that right down and do not need to respond to any of that. 

Since we got married in this state and have lived here for at least 45 days, he said if I want I can file for divorce here OR in our old state where we lived for 3 years, but there is no hurry and I can do it all through the mail and over Zoom. He costs $300 an hour just to talk to but it's nice to have a connection with someone who knows what they're talking about and can represent me if need be. I'd like to try to keep it from getting messy and going to court but you never know. She may completely turn on me and try to make my life hell especially if she is back on the drink. Not exactly sure what she could accomplish though. I'm just going to put as much distance as I can between us and send her one last text when I'm on my way out, the ghost her as much as I can. Communication is not important beyond that.

I hired a moving company and a truck for next Friday and am signing my new lease tonight. I'm not going to let my current landlord know until the day I move out, so he doesn't contact her. He doesn't owe me anything and I don't trust that he would keep my move a secret for me. My moving truck might be obvious on that day but whatever, I'll deal with it then and try to bang it out so I can leave as quick as I can in case she comes running.


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## bobsmith

@shouldhaveknownbetter 
playing this very well! I might add, and hopefully your atty already told you, PLEASE document everything from this minute forward like you are going to a federal trial! Record and keep all phone convos, all txt, documents, etc, etc. She is crazy and probably knows you may not care about certain material things BUT you should document EVERYTHING because you can then easily prove you gave her such and such. 

There may also come a time where you can use her threatening behaviors against her. I would not play nice! she cheated and probably gave you an STD!!!! This is a time to 'give' just like she did........not a damn.....


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## Openminded

You’re doing great.


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## phillybeffandswiss

bobsmith said:


> @shouldhaveknownbetter
> playing this very well! I might add, and hopefully your atty already told you, PLEASE document everything from this minute forward like you are going to a federal trial! Record and keep all phone convos, all txt, documents, etc, etc. She is crazy and probably knows you may not care about certain material things BUT you should document EVERYTHING because you can then easily prove you gave her such and such.
> 
> There may also come a time where you can use her threatening behaviors against her. I would not play nice! she cheated and probably gave you an STD!!!! This is a time to 'give' just like she did........not a damn.....


I am quoting this to make sure you listen. Also, invest in a voice recorder for any in person interactions, We have a few stories where a simple voice recorder kept a betrayed spouse out of Jail.


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## phillybeffandswiss

double post


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## Divinely Favored

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I'm starting to look back at things and realize she was lying the whole time. Her distance and anxiety and lack of motivation once we moved into our new place had everything to do with the fact she was living a lie. You can't just forget that it happened, that doesn't sound possible. If she did she would be angry with him once he supposedly admitted it and calling him a rapist. But she didn't. She was still texting him saying she missed him.
> 
> My talk with the lawyer today was very necessary. Thank you all for giving me that advice. I filled a page with notes and he's giving me a separation agreement to start working on. Mostly he gave me advice about our shared assets (furniture, pets) and my money. She may demand alimony due to our discrepancy of income, which is apparently 22% of what the difference is for half our marriage term. But when I move out I'm going to offer her the furniture. I don't care at all about stuff. She's the materialistic one anyway. And money comes and goes, I can always re-earn it. I'm not too worried. My sanity and safety is far more important to me and is actually priceless. The lawyer actually reminded me of that. He said don't be in a hurry to fast-track anything right now. Focus on getting some stability in my life, getting out of my current lease and into a new place. He also said I am in control and dictate the amount and kind of communication I have with her. If she love-bombs me or tries to get back in, he said I can shut that right down and do not need to respond to any of that.
> 
> Since we got married in this state and have lived here for at least 45 days, he said if I want I can file for divorce here OR in our old state where we lived for 3 years, but there is no hurry and I can do it all through the mail and over Zoom. He costs $300 an hour just to talk to but it's nice to have a connection with someone who knows what they're talking about and can represent me if need be. I'd like to try to keep it from getting messy and going to court but you never know. She may completely turn on me and try to make my life hell especially if she is back on the drink. Not exactly sure what she could accomplish though. I'm just going to put as much distance as I can between us and send her one last text when I'm on my way out, the ghost her as much as I can. Communication is not important beyond that.
> 
> I hired a moving company and a truck for next Friday and am signing my new lease tonight. I'm not going to let my current landlord know until the day I move out, so he doesn't contact her. He doesn't owe me anything and I don't trust that he would keep my move a secret for me. My moving truck might be obvious on that day but whatever, I'll deal with it then and try to bang it out so I can leave as quick as I can in case she comes running.



Find out whi h state is more benefi ial for you to divorce from and file there


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## OutofRetirement

She was having an affair with the chef. She probably had other affairs. She always had other men oribiting. Alcohol is enjoyable, so is sex, and I would guess alcohol and sex happened a number of times before you got an STD. It would be a long shot that you caught her the first time. Not your fault in the sense that you are, at 34, very naive. Such a genuine person, sees the good in people, the positive side - I feel terrible posting that is a bad thing, your naivete. The world needs more people like you, yet ... you are a lamb to the wolves.

Describing your wife as a wolf would be a gross injustice to her. She is the the sum of her experiences. She is confused, yet she is calculating. I have no doubt that she loves you in the way that she can. I just am not sure she can love in the way you believe love is. The male attention-seeking comes from something in her childhood. It was always men/boys who could be with her romantically - age, looks. I feel bad for her. I agree with you (I think) that it's a pity, but "I don't want to have to fix her when other people screwed her up."

Aside from your wife's culpability, the chef seems a predator. He's 22, your wife's 34. She controlled that relationship, she could have shut it down, raised it up, lowered it, as her desires. He took what she gave him. She chose to maintain a high intensity volume there.

I'm glad you finally realized your wife's behaviors are grounded in a continued affair with the chef. They had at least an emotional thing going on, you mention handsy stuff, possibly the handsy stuff included sex of some type.

She cheated on you with her friend at age 17. You ended it, I guess. At age 29 (?) you got together again. At age 31 you married. At age 34 you caught her cheating. You had somehow ignored (denial) all the time since you got together again that she flirted with men who she could be romantic with. For example, she didn't "flirt" with older women, or even older men. She flirted with males ages 20-50, I would assume, who were attractive enough to have an affair. I am uncertain she even understood what she was doing. Having some experience with girlfriends similar to that, I believe they realized it to a small degree but it was almost second nature to them, similar to walking or chewing gum - they learned it, but they did it automatically without much thought to do it. My experience was that girlfriends I had 25 and under (all of my girlfriends were extremely attractive) were usually not close to cognizant that guys wanted to be friends with them largely for possible romance/sex; after age 25, they usually had much more realization that guys might be friendly for the sex/romance possiblity. Another poster used the word "orbiter" and that is what I called the guys who orbited my girlfriends - to me they were waiting for their chance to pounce. 

But your wife, age 34 and married 3 years, and told you all her many experiences and adventures of singlehood, I doubt she would be so naive about other men's intentions. There are many women who will simply shut that flirtiness down immediately. Flirting with other people is disrespectful to the spouse. Imagine your mother, father, brother, sister being around while your wife is flirting endlessly with another guy - that is embarrassing all the way around. Uncomfortable. And obviously extremely inappropriate. To do so in secret makes it no less disrespectful. Of anything else, I hope you see the importance of boundaries and willingness to step away if the other person refuses to meet reasonable boundaries.


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## Shkb

@OutofRetirement thanks. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. I’ve learned a lot of lessons from this I won’t soon forget


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## Shkb

I’m having some dark fantasies of sending these screenshots to everyone we know and telling them she cheated and gave me an std and lied to me for months and that’s really the kind of person she is. What is she going to tell all our mutual friends? When our separation becomes public? That I left her? Poor her I’m just a meanie? Spread some lies about me, or some truths I confided in her when I trusted her? She’s an actress and a collector of people. Now I just want to file the divorce right NOW and get ahead of her

I see advice on other threads expose, expose, expose. I don’t want to stoop to her level but maybe my anger is starting to show and my willingness to protect her is starting to disappear, like our alliance is over. I guess this is a feeling I’ll have to deal with


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## jlg07

So, not sure any screen shots are necessary. If SHE starts spreading lies or re-writing your marital history, just correct that. Tell them that you are not sure what SHE told them, but I am separating from her because she cheated on me with POS (name here). You can tell them that she is pregnant from her AP and she's not even divorced yet, so....'
No need to stoop to HER level -- BUT I do believe in correcting things that would be detrimental to YOUR reputation.


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## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I’m having some dark fantasies of sending these screenshots to everyone we know and telling them she cheated and gave me an std and lied to me for months and that’s really the kind of person she is. What is she going to tell all our mutual friends? When our separation becomes public? That I left her? Poor her I’m just a meanie? Spread some lies about me, or some truths I confided in her when I trusted her? She’s an actress and a collector of people. Now I just want to file the divorce right NOW and get ahead of her
> 
> I see advice on other threads expose, expose, expose. I don’t want to stoop to her level but maybe my anger is starting to show and my willingness to protect her is starting to disappear, like our alliance is over. I guess this is a feeling I’ll have to deal with


Do you honestly believe anyone that knows her doesn’t see she is a train wreck and need evidence? Just sayin... do what’s best for you. You might be surprised how many “Yeah I wondered when you were going to be done with her” comments you get. I’ve gotten several of those. People have eyes and ears, they know.


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## bobsmith

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I’m having some dark fantasies of sending these screenshots to everyone we know and telling them she cheated and gave me an std and lied to me for months and that’s really the kind of person she is. What is she going to tell all our mutual friends? When our separation becomes public? That I left her? Poor her I’m just a meanie? Spread some lies about me, or some truths I confided in her when I trusted her? She’s an actress and a collector of people. Now I just want to file the divorce right NOW and get ahead of her
> 
> I see advice on other threads expose, expose, expose. I don’t want to stoop to her level but maybe my anger is starting to show and my willingness to protect her is starting to disappear, like our alliance is over. I guess this is a feeling I’ll have to deal with


Dude, you NEED to listen man! You need to play this like a chess game for now. No sending crazy texts. She will try some legal stance with it. I try to get people in the mentality of "what would you say/do when being interrogated in a pressure room at the police station????" You can probably "slip" and tell someone but sending a mass text can be looked at as inflammatory and you want a judge on YOUR side. Do not give the other side ammo!


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## Shkb

You all are right. Thank you for getting me back on track. Moment of weakness, dumb idea. I just gotta keep focusing on me and moving out


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## farsidejunky

Exposure is to save the marriage.

Keep a lid on it until you get the ink dry on a favorable divorce settlement. After that, 'clear the air' with anyone who matters. 

Discipline will pay you dividends. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Beach123

jlg07 said:


> So, now that she's cheated and you have NO reason to trust her actions or word, what makes you think that she will fix the drinking THIS time? She's already spoke with this guy AGAIN after she cheated? Restaurants are notoriously BAD environments for cheating, so if she gets ANOTHER job in that field??? (especially since she's "flirty"). Her being flirty, can you EVER really trust her again if this is fundamentally how she is? She can't change that in her nature, so...
> 
> You are correct, cheating is ALL on her, NOTHING to do with you.


this^^^ and the alcohol Problem is all on her too! SHE is the only one who can do the work to fix what is broken inside her - including her need for so much attention by being flirty! That’s disrespecting you and the marriage!

look, you can’t change her. This is who she is... she’s an alcoholic who cheats and flirts. She can’t be trusted and you can’t fix this. She just continues to betray you and lie to you - so there’s no foundation for the marriage - she’s ruined it completely - even risked getting pregnant!

so she really has left you nothing to work on. Divorce her - she isn’t working on her issues - she’s just making the problems bigger.

cut her loose and hope and pray she gets LONG TERM help! She has issues she needs to deal with - sometimes they take years to work through.

get out while you can - she could create big legal problems with her drinking issues. Let her family help her.

you can go to Al-Anon to get support. That’s the group for family members. You’ll find that you didn’t cause this, you can’t change it and you can’t cure it.

If I untangled a 27 year marriage - you can untangle a 3 year marriage. Don’t be so short sighted. It’s not that hard. It’s worth it when a spouse is mistreating you - and she is.


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## ABHale

I think you should let your close friends know what is happening. They will be the ones to contradict any lies she “will” tell about the situation.

Don’t do it out of revenge, at the same time you don’t need your reputation trashed.


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## Diana7

ABHale said:


> I think you should let your close friends know what is happening. They will be the ones to contradict any lies she “will” tell about the situation.
> 
> Don’t do it out of revenge, at the same time you don’t need your reputation trashed.


I would agree with this, at lest tell your parents and siblings. Hers as well.


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## Shkb

@ABHale I’ve told my family and 5 of my closest friends in my old town where I’m moving back to what happened. I’m not going to go all Jerry Springer, I don’t want any more drama, I just want some peace. At least I know the truth and can use it down the road if she decides to make it ugly. But I’m not living in fear of that and I’m just putting one foot in front of the other for now. I finally got a good night’s sleep last night and am working all day today and tomorrow after taking a few days off, it’s good to be staying busy, I need it


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## Shkb

Diana7 said:


> I would agree with this, at lest tell your parents and siblings. Hers as well.


I’m pretty sure she’s already told her sister and sister’s bf as they keep texting and calling to see if I’m ok and need to talk. I don’t want to talk to them though because I know she’s staying in their house and I’m sure they are on her side, and I absolutely don’t need anyone telling me they love US and want to help us through it. I’m just removing myself, maybe I’ll reestablish some kind of connection with them after I move. Idk


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## Beach123

What is your plan to move forward?


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## bobsmith

You might want to damp some fires from people on her side with just a quick little, "sorry, I am good, just really busy with project at work right now. I will catch up with you soon"......

Or you know, just feed them some line of ******** because I have found if you totally ignore people, they get more concerned. 

Also, way after the fact, you might be able to have a convo with someone on her side, but think before you say. On the legal side of things, a voice convo or talk could not be used as evidence by her for anything as that is called hearsay and they would have to subpoena that person. Very rarely do these things get to that point, but just be reminded that you can most certainly "stick the knife in and twist" without making it obvious or admissible. 

Remember, woman like to try to use the abuse card in divorce. Provide zero hint of evidence of that fact. Evidence is what hangs people. All you would have to say to a person on her side is "I was so pissed I could have killed her" and that can get all twisted up by lawyers.


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## Shkb

Beach123 said:


> What is your plan to move forward?


I already signed the lease for a new apartment and paid security and 1st month. I’ve already secured the uhaul and moving team for next Friday. I’m out of here.

On my way out I’ll send her an email detailing my plans without revealing my whereabouts, just the basic facts and list the things I’m leaving behind for her to pick up, while simultaneously giving my current landlord my 60 day notice, tell him all my things are out and send the keys and rent for Oct & Nov in the mail. Then I’m going to start over.

I may or may not fill out the separation agreement forms before I leave. I’m not sure yet about when I should do that, though I am 100% sure I’m going to.


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## Shkb

@bobsmith I texted her sister’s boyfriend today, just to say I’m ok and thanks for reaching out, he said he’s there if I need to talk but I don’t know if I can trust them anymore. He was (is?) my good friend, just bought him an electric bass for his birthday last month..


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## bobsmith

You may want to check on the "60 day notice" because at least in my state, they can "request" 60 days, but you are only obligated to 30. As well, he most likely will get it rented out within the 60 days, in which you should receive credit. 

I realize you don't care right now, and I sure didn't either, but just trying to help ya. A quick call to your state official should clarify this. 

Also, you might have at least a plan to clear the rest of the stuff out, should she just decide to run. 

ALSO, and this is HUGE!!!!!! Take pictures of the place before you move ANYTHING, then pics after all your stuff is out and get GOOD pics of the condition of the rental. I have seen cases where the other party trashes it on purpose and she sounds like the type. That would be some sweet justice and judges LOVE it. She would not be expecting you to have pictures.


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## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I’m pretty sure she’s already told her sister and sister’s bf as they keep texting and calling to see if I’m ok and need to talk. I don’t want to talk to them though because I know she’s staying in their house and I’m sure they are on her side, and I absolutely don’t need anyone telling me they love US and want to help us through it. I’m just removing myself, maybe I’ll reestablish some kind of connection with them after I move. Idk


Right, because it’s a lot easier when your alcoholic daughter/sister is being babysat and cared for by a husband and they don’t have to worry about the late night calls for pickup, bail, or puke patrol.


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## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> @bobsmith I texted her sister’s boyfriend today, just to say I’m ok and thanks for reaching out, he said he’s there if I need to talk but I don’t know if I can trust them anymore. He was (is?) my good friend, just bought him an electric bass for his birthday last month..


I would just play it safe until you are in the situation you want to be. If you say nothing, then nothing gets said. Risk management. And then you don’t have to be hurt that he betrayed your confidence if he does tell. Play it safe, the less worrying you have the better for you right now. Good luck!


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## Beach123

I would just move all HER stuff to a storage unit - pays months fee and give her the key telling her how to get her stuff. From there it’s on her. Keep evidence you placed her stuff there and she was notified how to retrieve all of it.

then it’s ONLY her responsibility.


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## Shkb

@Beach123 I really like that idea and want to do that but my lawyer said not to touch her things...I really would love to just get the heck out of the apartment completely, clean it up, hand over the keys and be done with it but I don’t know what do you think? There’s not much that’s actually hers alone, a lamp and clothes and shoes and books mostly. I could pack it carefully and take pictures? Idk


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## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> @Beach123 I really like that idea and want to do that but my lawyer said not to touch her things...I really would love to just get the heck out of the apartment completely, clean it up, hand over the keys and be done with it but I don’t know what do you think? There’s not much that’s actually hers alone, a lamp and clothes and shoes and books mostly. I could pack it carefully and take pictures? Idk


Do what your lawyer says. That’s why you’re paying him $300/hr

If you mess with her stuff in any way she will be able to say you stole and damaged things. 

Take the pictures as stated in post #141. 

I would also not have any meaningful dialogue with any of her friends or family. 

It’s fine to reply periodically and say things like, “thank you for thinking of me, I appreciate your concern.” But then leave it at that and don’t provide any more information or feedback. There is no due process at all with in-laws and anything and everything you say can and will be used against you at some point.


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## OutofRetirement

When push comes to shove, you will find out most people don't care. You will be surprised and happy that some will care you never thought; and you will be extremely hurt that some will not care who you thought would care.

By now your wife normally (in this type of cheating) would be a bit more aggressive to get you to open up. I would assume she is still hot and heavy with the chef, at least online, or maybe have found a new love interest as plan b or plan c. Plus, she was cheating on you a long time, before the chef even, so it may have been a relief for her. Alcohol will help her lose inhibitions and allow rationalizing to see other men while "separated."

She'll tell people you have trouble with her being friends with other males. Basically, technically true, but of substance a complete deception. Your eyes are opening, you can predict her excuses to her friends, and I'm sure you get a good dose of blame. Don't sweat it. Your wife has become one of the pod people now. What are the odds that pod people have a lot of good healthy moral friends?


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## ABHale

Take photos of the apartment when you get your stuff out. Send them to your landlord or have your landlord meet you there when you are ready to leave and give him your set of keys.


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## Buffer

Take advice from here but listen to the lawyer. If he says to... well do it. They (your legal representative has your best interest at stake.
Good luck with the move and let her wayward ways be known, when you go.


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## Shkb

Started reading No More Mr. Nice Guy tonight. It’s hitting pretty close to home.


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## Buffer

Well done 👍


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## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> She even had the OM over one last time before we moved so I could say goodbye and play guitar with him one more time.


 Wow this is sick. This adds an element to make this what is called a “compound affair” - compound affairs have many toxic elements that in essence give them the impact of a long-term affair even if they were ONS’s or short term. And think about this: she was stone cold sober when she pulled this little number, right?


----------



## Shkb

@Thumos yeah...Pretty sickening actually. It’s one of the things that’s bothering me the most. Jamming, giving that dude a hug while she was smirking. Icky. I’m thinking now it would be absolutely impossible for me to be intimate with her again, just hypothetically the thought grosses me out actually. I’ll leave them to it

I’ve decided to move all our shared furniture into a storage unit to make it easy for her to get all her small stuff (clothes, books, jewelry) out. I’ll clean the place really well and take pics and vids and let my landlord know. Then in the final email (want to keep her # blocked) I’ll give her the decision to split or go pick up the furniture, or I’ll sell it and send her half the $. I don’t care I just don’t want there to be any material items left to fight over, or have to deal with her abandoning things at the apartment. Wish I could do all this tomorrow instead of next Friday.

Prepared my first real meal last night, I’m losing weight, only ate a few pieces of fruit for days. I have to turn this around and try to be healthy. I’ve printed out the forms I need to fill out, just need to order a copy of our marriage certificate


----------



## TDSC60

Have you considered that the time she contracted the STD was probably not the first time they were together?

Since she has been texting him that she misses him, it would be logical to believe that there was an on going relationship. Maybe they were both so drunk that they did not think about protect that one time and he gave her the STD.

Not that this makes much difference now. But it might factor into how you proceed and move on.


----------



## Shkb

@TDSC60 probably wasn’t but I don’t have any proof and I don’t really care anymore. Whatever. Not going to give her any more of my energy, not worth it

My lawyer says when I file I should not mention the infidelity and std. Since it is a matter of public record and might help speed it along to get her to agree to my terms if I don’t include the dirty details, just separating and getting out and being done with it. I guess I’ll just deal with our possessions then file the forms and see how it all plays out, I know it’s a long process.


----------



## midatlanticdad

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Started reading Mr. Nice Guy tonight. It’s hitting pretty close to home.


is teh book literally called "mr. nice guy"? after reading your thread, and seeing this i looked it up but it looked like fiction.

thanks in advance. sorry about your experience, but i think you are doing the right thing. you seem to have your $hit together. wish i could say the same!


----------



## jlg07

midatlanticdad said:


> is teh book literally called "mr. nice guy"? after reading your thread, and seeing this i looked it up but it looked like fiction.
> 
> thanks in advance. sorry about your experience, but i think you are doing the right thing. you seem to have your $hit together. wish i could say the same!


The book is called No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert A. Glover - should be able to find it online.


----------



## Diceplayer

"No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert A. Glover, Ph.D. Non fiction.


----------



## Shkb

Oops yeah No More Mr. Nice Guy. I think it’s an important book for me to be reading, very relevant

I’m trying to stay stable and focus on my work and moving. I’m not drinking or smoking. I think this has been a huge wake-up call about not only who I was really married to, but about what I’ve been willing to tolerate. I’m not putting up with any of this kind of stuff ever again! 

I have to make my boundaries clear and pay attention to how I really feel, not to how someone else makes me feel. I’m going to put myself first from here on out, not some other person or a relationship, this one turned out to be a sham and a joke anyway. I already feel stronger, the path is clear


----------



## ConanHub

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Hi all, I’ve been reading a lot of threads today because I am in a state of shock staying at a hotel, in a total fog and not sure what to do. My wife and I have been married 3 years but we were together for 3 when we were younger, we reconnected as adults and decided to really go for it. We fell madly back in love and got married and got a dog and a nice apartment and built a life together. There have been many good times and laughs and adventures, at times we’ve been happier than ever..
> 
> Ther have been lots of rocky times too, adjusting to being adults together, her family is really messed up and she had developed a binge drinking problem that at first was fun and exciting but I feel stupid not seeing it earlier as a problem. Last year after a few ridiculous nights where I basically became her babysitter I told her I wouldn’t support her drinking anymore and I quit drinking too. She was sober for 4 months which was huge but now it’s started to creep back in.
> 
> We moved to a new state and before we left her co-workers threw her a going away party. I was tired because I had worked all day and had work in the morning so said have fun. I woke up at 5 and she wasn’t home, texted and called with no answer for 20 minutes but saw her phone location as some random sidestreet. She finally called and was obviously pretty intoxicated, said she was having a big talk with her coworker. I said come home now, 40 minutes later he drops her off and she stumbles in (they were only parked 10 minutes away) and I was very upset and suspicious as she had a flirty thing going with this guy, but I’m open-minded and but we were friends too so I thought.
> 
> I yelled at her, I hated her drinking, I’m sleeping on the couch, and what was she doing parked in the car for an hour anyway? I should have trusted my gut but she acted like it was silly for me to think anything happened. Either way I went to bed very upset, had to wake up early. We talked about it in the morning and she said she was very drunk and they were just talking about work and life and stuff before we moved and she was going to quit alcohol again and we made up. Has only drank a few glasses of wine since then, this was 2 months ago.
> 
> We moved and put our new place together and started exploring our new town. She started having issues with her bladder and went to the doctor. Turns out she has chlamydia and actually did have sex with this coworker in his car that night. She claims she doesn’t even remember and was blacked out and a friend had given her a xanax. Now I probably have chlamydia. She is also not on birth control because I have a vasectomy. So she could have gotten pregnant. I was livid and said a few mean things and then left the house to get a hotel. I came back to get some things and she had written a long note saying sorry and that she wants to spend her life with me and this was a horrible mistake. I texted her and said she needs to stay with family now, I need space right away for awhile, she agreed to leave, I don’t know if that’s the right choice, I just felt so shut down and crappy. Then I left for the hotel.
> 
> This morning at 5 I got a call from a hospital an hour away that she was found stumbling drunk on the side of the road. Her friend had come picked her up, they had got wasted and her friend was driving drunk, got pulled over and ran off, leaving my wife drunk on the side of the highway. They took her in an ambulance and I had to drive to pick her up. She was a hot mess driving home saying all kinds of things but I am so numb at this point and feel like an idiot. Our lives are so tied together and we have so many mutual childhood friends and an apartment and pets..I’m so confused, I haven’t even left the hotel bed since I got back. I don’t even know why I’m posting, I called my brother but I guess I just don’t have many people to talk to, I don’t want to smear her name and the truth is very embarrassing. I wonder if her friends knew and am tempted to ask. She says she doesn’t remember it at all but she said she called the coworker and he said yeah it happened, I don’t know if any of that is true. We’ve had our ups and downs but I feel like I’ve been very good to her, I’m pretty stable and worked hard for our life. I feel like a chump


You married an drunken loose goose.

She needs professional help and you need to not be married to her.


----------



## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> @Thumos yeah...Pretty sickening actually. It’s one of the things that’s bothering me the most. Jamming, giving that dude a hug while she was smirking. Icky. I’m thinking now it would be absolutely impossible for me to be intimate with her again, just hypothetically the thought grosses me out actually. I’ll leave them to it
> 
> I’ve decided to move all our shared furniture into a storage unit to make it easy for her to get all her small stuff (clothes, books, jewelry) out. I’ll clean the place really well and take pics and vids and let my landlord know. Then in the final email (want to keep her # blocked) I’ll give her the decision to split or go pick up the furniture, or I’ll sell it and send her half the $. I don’t care I just don’t want there to be any material items left to fight over, or have to deal with her abandoning things at the apartment. Wish I could do all this tomorrow instead of next Friday.
> 
> Prepared my first real meal last night, I’m losing weight, only ate a few pieces of fruit for days. I have to turn this around and try to be healthy. I’ve printed out the forms I need to fill out, just need to order a copy of our marriage certificate


Try baked potato with all the fixins. That was easier for me to get down. And those chocolate protein drinks they sell in the chocolate milk section... I lived off those for a while. Sorry you’re going through this.


----------



## Waits4Mr.Right

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Hi all, I’ve been reading a lot of threads today because I am in a state of shock staying at a hotel, in a total fog and not sure what to do. My wife and I have been married 3 years but we were together for 3 when we were younger, we reconnected as adults and decided to really go for it. We fell madly back in love and got married and got a dog and a nice apartment and built a life together. There have been many good times and laughs and adventures, at times we’ve been happier than ever..
> 
> Ther have been lots of rocky times too, adjusting to being adults together, her family is really messed up and she had developed a binge drinking problem that at first was fun and exciting but I feel stupid not seeing it earlier as a problem. Last year after a few ridiculous nights where I basically became her babysitter I told her I wouldn’t support her drinking anymore and I quit drinking too. She was sober for 4 months which was huge but now it’s started to creep back in.
> 
> We moved to a new state and before we left her co-workers threw her a going away party. I was tired because I had worked all day and had work in the morning so said have fun. I woke up at 5 and she wasn’t home, texted and called with no answer for 20 minutes but saw her phone location as some random sidestreet. She finally called and was obviously pretty intoxicated, said she was having a big talk with her coworker. I said come home now, 40 minutes later he drops her off and she stumbles in (they were only parked 10 minutes away) and I was very upset and suspicious as she had a flirty thing going with this guy, but I’m open-minded and but we were friends too so I thought.
> 
> I yelled at her, I hated her drinking, I’m sleeping on the couch, and what was she doing parked in the car for an hour anyway? I should have trusted my gut but she acted like it was silly for me to think anything happened. Either way I went to bed very upset, had to wake up early. We talked about it in the morning and she said she was very drunk and they were just talking about work and life and stuff before we moved and she was going to quit alcohol again and we made up. Has only drank a few glasses of wine since then, this was 2 months ago.
> 
> We moved and put our new place together and started exploring our new town. She started having issues with her bladder and went to the doctor. Turns out she has chlamydia and actually did have sex with this coworker in his car that night. She claims she doesn’t even remember and was blacked out and a friend had given her a xanax. Now I probably have chlamydia. She is also not on birth control because I have a vasectomy. So she could have gotten pregnant. I was livid and said a few mean things and then left the house to get a hotel. I came back to get some things and she had written a long note saying sorry and that she wants to spend her life with me and this was a horrible mistake. I texted her and said she needs to stay with family now, I need space right away for awhile, she agreed to leave, I don’t know if that’s the right choice, I just felt so shut down and crappy. Then I left for the hotel.
> 
> This morning at 5 I got a call from a hospital an hour away that she was found stumbling drunk on the side of the road. Her friend had come picked her up, they had got wasted and her friend was driving drunk, got pulled over and ran off, leaving my wife drunk on the side of the highway. They took her in an ambulance and I had to drive to pick her up. She was a hot mess driving home saying all kinds of things but I am so numb at this point and feel like an idiot. Our lives are so tied together and we have so many mutual childhood friends and an apartment and pets..I’m so confused, I haven’t even left the hotel bed since I got back. I don’t even know why I’m posting, I called my brother but I guess I just don’t have many people to talk to, I don’t want to smear her name and the truth is very embarrassing. I wonder if her friends knew and am tempted to ask. She says she doesn’t remember it at all but she said she called the coworker and he said yeah it happened, I don’t know if any of that is true. We’ve had our ups and downs but I feel like I’ve been very good to her, I’m pretty stable and worked hard for our life. I feel like a chump


I say run. She cheated on you! Alcohol 🍸 or no alcohol, it's just an excuse. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life wondering where she is, what she's doing, and WHO with?? 🙅🏻 Nope. You deserve better!!


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## Shkb

@Waits4Mr.Right Thanks. Yeah I’m done 100%. No looking back. I’m starting to realize how much time I lost focusing on her life, it’s hers to mess up any way she wants, not my problem anymore. Maybe I was suffocating her anyway trying to be the perfect loving husband. Every day away from her it feels like I’m waking up a little bit, coming back to myself before we got together. Is it weird to feel strangely happy this happened?

I mean it still hurts too, a lot bubbling up. I didn’t realize how absent and hidden I was in this marriage, how toxic it was for me just trying to please her and keep her attention 24/7, especially to find out she was giving it away for nothing behind my back. At least it was only 3 years. I like being alone, I’m making future plans with myself only, and I’ve been connecting with my family where there had been a bit of a block lately. Blessing in disguise tbh


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## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Is it weird to feel strangely happy this happened?


No. Normal.


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## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> @Waits4Mr.Right Thanks. Yeah I’m done 100%. No looking back. I’m starting to realize how much time I lost focusing on her life, it’s hers to mess up any way she wants, not my problem anymore. Maybe I was suffocating her anyway trying to be the perfect loving husband. Every day away from her it feels like I’m waking up a little bit, coming back to myself before we got together. Is it weird to feel strangely happy this happened?
> 
> I mean it still hurts too, a lot bubbling up. I didn’t realize how absent and hidden I was in this marriage, how toxic it was for me just trying to please her and keep her attention 24/7, especially to find out she was giving it away for nothing behind my back. At least it was only 3 years. I like being alone, I’m making future plans with myself only, and I’ve been connecting with my family where there had been a bit of a block lately. Blessing in disguise tbh


It’s almost like instant permission to stop trying so damn hard. Permission from the internal need to be a great spouse and work work work for the perfect marriage. Permission to not give a flying F anymore and not feel like a terrible person for feeling it.


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## TDSC60

Get a legal separation or file for divorce before you leave! If you do not, then you could be on the hook for half or all of any debts she incurs after you leave.

Not sure what law says where you live. Definitely talk to a lawyer about this before you walk away.


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## Openminded

It can be difficult to see things clearly when you’re in the middle of it all. Time and distance help with that.


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## Shkb

I went to the court today to confirm all the forms I need to file for D. It seems actually pretty simple to get the process started and considering I would like to avoid communication with her I think I’m just going to do it.

The only issue is that this state seems to require the papers be served by the sheriff. I don’t really want to cause a scene at my STBX’s sister’s house, especially with the kids around. Seems unnecessary and kind of cruel. Maybe I should file, then reach out to her to give her the heads-up, and give her the chance to respond? Am I being too nice?


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## ABHale

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I went to the court today to confirm all the forms I needed to file for divorce. It seems actually pretty simple to get the process started and considering I would like to avoid communication with her I think I’m just going to do it.
> 
> The only issue is that this state seems to require the papers be served by the sheriff. I don’t really want to cause a scene at my STBX’s sister’s house, especially with the kids around. Seems unnecessary and kind of cruel. Maybe I should file, then reach out to her to give her the heads-up, and give her the chance to respond? Am I being too nice?


You Have a good heart man.

Inform your brother in law about the sheriff coming by. He can handle it from there.


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## OutofRetirement

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Maybe I should file, then reach out to her to give her the heads-up, and give her the chance to respond? Am I being too nice?


Just tell her you are divorcing, a sheriff has to deliver the papers, she can expect it. Send an email or a text if you don't want to talk to her, but that sounds abnormal to me - meaning, if my brother was cheated on and was divorcing and doing the James Bond 007 secret stuff you are doing, I'd ask him to go to the doctor to see if something happened to his brain. I would tell him just tell her and deal with the details you need to deal with and then move on.

She cheated and lied. You are one of about maybe 10 million or more. It hurts. Divorce her, tell her, and dissolve the legal marriage contract. You know her from since your kids, just tell her straight you are divorcing, it is a dealbreaker, period, and then work out the details. You have very little to dissolve; it can't be much simpler as far as divorce goes.

Stop blaming everything on her. She cheated behind your back, everything else you did it because you wanted to or you allowed it.

You are a nice guy, too nice maybe, and that was a problem in your relationship; Number one problem was your wife was selfish throughout the relationship, going back to your high school romance; number two problem was you were too compliant, too nice, with her selfishness, partially you just never stood up enough, not frequently enough, not hard enough, and partially you actually encouraged her by actively trying to sacrifice yourself for her when you already were unequal in her wants and desires vs. your wants and desires.

You can do what you want, I am giving you my opinion.


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## Shkb

@OutofRetirement Yeah..Now I feel silly for being so secretive with all this, makes me feel like a coward, hiding, dreaming that these papers are going to be revenge or something like, boom take that! Who cares, it doesn’t really matter how it ends, our marriage thing is already over, doesn’t belong on paper anymore. My mind is made up at least about moving out and I’ll let her know and open some communication when the time is right, she probably wants it too, then she’ll be free of my expectations and can do whatever she wants.

Many times we’ve been to the edge but she always promised to change and get better, she didn’t want to lose me or I her and we’d been through so much together, so things would get good again. It was always that dynamic, she never threatened to leave me..Maybe I didn’t have enough of a backbone, wasn’t clear about what I wanted or needed, gave in too easily. Too focused on polishing our image of happy married childhood sweethearts, riding off into the sunset. I feel kind of pathetic.

Strange thing there wasn’t a loss of love, it still seemed like it was growing, just would get complicated, challenging. I thought it was all worth it. So maybe I’m holding off feelings of sadness or guilt or missing her by making her an enemy in my mind. All my talk about us being toxic discounts how much I’ve grown as a person in our relationship, how much she helped me, how much I enjoyed her company and I’m trying not to think about the positive things because then I’ll get really sad

I’ve seen her dark side, I’ve got mine too, not like I haven’t lost my temper, been jealous, insecure, depressed, manipulative, lazy, tried to control her, flipped out about her behavior, stormed off, made her chase after me. Like a teenager. So wrapped up and involved in her life, reacting to her fuzzy choices but never truly put my foot down, I didn’t want to constantly be threatening divorce, I didn’t actually want it to end. Probably made me unnattractive, pushed her away, but I’m trying to avoid blaming myself for her cheating, seems like it would’ve happened no matter how I acted towards her, it’s her thrill. I’ve been reading about covert contracts and seems like I made many with her, need to examine that part of myself.

I don’t know if I should tell her any of this, about my feelings. I don’t want to open any doors, they need to be closed now. I just really don’t want her coming here now especially if she isn’t sober. I mean last time I saw her she was wasted and in the emergency room saying all kinds of crazy stuff and that’s where we left off, messy


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## Shkb

I should probably be writing in a diary or talking to a therapist instead of posting here so much ha.


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## Lostinthought61

You both have history, you both have a past, and yeah like the rest of us you both have your issues but the difference between the two of you is that you had boundaries, she didn’t regardless of the excuse of alcohol....your thoughts and feeling are raw and real I do not believe that she is in any shape to understand nor be empathic of what you are going through, maybe some time in the future maybe never. But your actions will speak volumes to her, they will tell her that there is no going back, that you are moving on.


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## gr8ful1

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I should probably be writing in a diary or talking to a therapist instead of posting here so much ha.


Treat this place like your sentient diary. One that has the ability to speak wisdom to you. Keep posting!


----------



## Affaircare

@shouldhaveknownbetter ,

Believe it or not, you're actually doing pretty well. I'm impressed at your ability to have this occur, respond (not react), and keep a somewhat clear head. I have a couple of random thoughts:

1. I personally survived on soup and instant oatmeal. I really didn't have an appetite but I had two kids who needed my energy, and both soup and oatmeal were kind of warm and nutritious. Honestly, it ws thin enough to choke it down, but thick enough to feel something in my stomach. 

2. I would recommend NOT telling her all the thoughts and feelings you're having because you would be speaking to her as your friend, and sadly the truth is that she did not ACT like your friend. Friends don't do this to each other. So, I get it--you "thought" she was your closest friend and it may have felt that way at times, but right now that isn't who she is. I'm not trying to be mean or talk smack about her, but rather I'm politely reminding you that a friend would care about you and treat you in a kind way. And a friend is the one who would care about and be interested in your thoughts and feelings right now. 

If you have a guy who's a good buddy--you might talk to him. If you have a brother who is a brother by blood or by love--you might talk to him. If you have what I call "wise counsel"--a father, mentor, or someone who's ideas you trust--you might talk to him. Talking here, like a journal, isn't a bad idea (although I will remind you that folks here can have very different viewpoints, so take what works for you and resonates within you, and just let go of the rest). 

3. In real life, you have made the decision to divorce. She may or may not want to at this time, but YOU have chosen to do so. In your state, in order to divorce, a sheriff has to serve the papers. So you can choose to "surprise" her and maybe embarrass her, or you can choose to just inform them (she's staying at her sister's and BILs house, right) that you gave the sheriff the address and they will be by on such-and-such date to serve the papers. The end. No need to discuss it or get into it...inform them it is happening and they can handle it however they want.


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## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I went to the court today to confirm all the forms I need to file for D. It seems actually pretty simple to get the process started and considering I would like to avoid communication with her I think I’m just going to do it.
> 
> The only issue is that this state seems to require the papers be served by the sheriff. I don’t really want to cause a scene at my STBX’s sister’s house, especially with the kids around. Seems unnecessary and kind of cruel. Maybe I should file, then reach out to her to give her the heads-up, and give her the chance to respond? Am I being too nice?


They don’t allow a normal process server, it has to be a sheriff? Yikes... that’s intense.


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## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I should probably be writing in a diary or talking to a therapist instead of posting here so much ha.


I think you are doing so well and you have developed some strength through this process. I am actually very proud of all you’ve discovered about yourself and this relationship in such a short amount of time and that you have the spine to end it. 
I’m sure the full mourning of the good times and and the loss of your shared journey will come, but at least it will come when you are in a better place to let yourself feel those things.


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## phillybeffandswiss

You described her abuse, her binge drinking and general outbursts. You do what you feel is best and if your gut feels like “nope, let me get a safe distance and let her know” then do that.


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## Openminded

Is it not possible in your state to voluntarily accept service (i.e., sign acknowledgment of service and have it notarized) without having to physically be served by a sheriff’s deputy?


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## oldshirt

If a sheriif’s deputy serves papers, there arent flashing lights and sirens and swat teams aren’t fast roping out of black helicopters. There are no flash bangs or people bashing in the door with battering rams.

A deputy walks up to the door with an envelope in his/her hand, knocks on the door, asks for Mrs Shouldhaveknownbetter, hands her the envelope, says “you have been served” and then walks away. 

No drama. No excitement. No hassle. 

Your fear of causing her discomfort and upsetting her or making her think poorly of you are some of the factors that have lead to this predicament. 

Stop that.

When you are a drunk and you cheat on your partner and treat them poorly, you should expect to be served with divorce papers. 

You do you and stop worrying about her or her reaction to natural consequences of her actions. 

if Informing anyone that she will be served with cost you any extra time or energy such as lifting up the phone to call or txt, then why bother? You could be spending that time and energy doing something that benefits you. 

One actual disadvantage of telling her she’ll be served is she could hide from the server. They have to hand deliver it so if she can go on the lamb she can prolong the process. 

You do you and let the drunk ho worry about herself.


----------



## Tdbo

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I went to the court today to confirm all the forms I need to file for D. It seems actually pretty simple to get the process started and considering I would like to avoid communication with her I think I’m just going to do it.
> 
> The only issue is that this state seems to require the papers be served by the sheriff. I don’t really want to cause a scene at my STBX’s sister’s house, especially with the kids around. Seems unnecessary and kind of cruel. Maybe I should file, then reach out to her to give her the heads-up, and give her the chance to respond? Am I being too nice?


Absolutely, you are being too nice.
Actions have consequences. Her actions have earned her the consequence of finality.
Thus, it is absolutely and totally appropriate that she be served with all the pomp and circumstance due her.
Damn it, she earned it.
Don't deprive her of the drama of it.
She's entitled.


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## bobsmith

Service by an officer is a drama free situation. the court clerk might be nice to you and give you an idea how soon that might happen. just let them know you don't want to cause any extra drama and would like to ensure you are not around when it goes down. My guess is you will get a generic response of "IDK"......

In any case, cops won't make a scene. They hand it off and leave quickly. It is her reading it that will cause a scene, but that will happen regardless of service method.


----------



## oldshirt

bobsmith said:


> In any case, cops won't make a scene. They hand it off and leave quickly. It is her reading it that will cause a scene, but that will happen regardless of service method.


This^^^

She is the one that creates drama and disruption and chaos because she is a train wreck. 

It has nothing to with the method of how the papers are delivered.


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## shortbus

You've turned a corner. You now are aware to the reality of it all. You will now start to heal.
**** not eating, have a ****ing rare steak and a nice glass of scotch. On me.


----------



## OutofRetirement

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> @OutofRetirement
> I don’t know if I should tell her any of this, about my feelings. I don’t want to open any doors, they need to be closed now. I just really don’t want her coming here now especially if she isn’t sober. I mean last time I saw her she was wasted and in the emergency room saying all kinds of crazy stuff and that’s where we left off, messy


Please don't tell her about all your feelings. She doesn't care and never really did deep down. Even if she did, she is not in any head space to discuss your issues, she can't even handle her own issues, not even close.

Just tell her after you filed, before a sheriff comes, that you filed, and a sheriff has to come to deliver the papers, and she should expect it. Then if you have outstanding issues related to rentals and assets, send that to her separately, and tell her you are sending it and when she can expect it. Then after she gets it, after a day or two, you finalize the details. That's it. Don't engage in any drama or feelings or sorries or fond memory or such, you can do that when the divorce is finalized. If she turns herself around two years from now, you can date her again. Whatever you want. But she is a mess now and won't be for at least a few years, and maybe never, because she doesn't seem to want to change, or can't. So stay with we're divorcing and here are the details - assets, rentals - we need to agree on. Don't be mean, don't be warm, just be pleasant as if you were discussing the details with me or some other acquaintance.

Yeah, if you need to go over your feelings, and you probably do, then write in a journal or open up with a family member or a close friend or a therapist. Introspection is fine, but get out and see people - friends, family, etc. Don't be a recluse. Stay busy. Use the time you have now to do things you wanted to but didn't have time for when married caretaking her.

Time is the biggest healer. Distance helps, too. Staying busy and having other people - friends, family - helps, too. And staying focused on your purposes - divorce, career, etc.

Be careful around her, too. She is not normal, not how she lived with you, not the stumbling roadside, not going after a 22-year-old chef (she's too young herself to need a 22-year-old to validate her, and I can't imagine many 22 men are going to have a lot in common with a 34 woman), and most of all it is not normal if she hasn't been at least contacting you about how you are doing, given that she was the wrongdoer and claimed wanted to fix it, I would have expected her to reach out by now, even despite her proxies contacting you a couple of times.


----------



## mickybill

I guess it depend son the state, in CA *The* two most common ways *a* Petition can be *served* are via hand delivery or certified mail. Hand Delivery: *The* most important thing to remember about hand delivery is that it cannot be you who serves *the paperwork* to *your spouse*. Rather, you need to have *a* third-party individual do so *for* you.
Looking back I kind of wish I had a deputy serve her at work, a private school in Beverly Hills. After all the OM was a vendor to the school and she was in the biz dept. I sent it certified.


----------



## Beach123

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I went to the court today to confirm all the forms I need to file for D. It seems actually pretty simple to get the process started and considering I would like to avoid communication with her I think I’m just going to do it.
> 
> The only issue is that this state seems to require the papers be served by the sheriff. I don’t really want to cause a scene at my STBX’s sister’s house, especially with the kids around. Seems unnecessary and kind of cruel. Maybe I should file, then reach out to her to give her the heads-up, and give her the chance to respond? Am I being too nice?


yes, you’re being too nice.

stop worrying about her feelings - you’re way past that now.

she will be fine - she should be expecting those papers!


----------



## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I went to the court today to confirm all the forms I need to file for D. It seems actually pretty simple to get the process started and considering I would like to avoid communication with her I think I’m just going to do it.
> 
> The only issue is that this state seems to require the papers be served by the sheriff. I don’t really want to cause a scene at my STBX’s sister’s house, especially with the kids around. Seems unnecessary and kind of cruel. Maybe I should file, then reach out to her to give her the heads-up, and give her the chance to respond? Am I being too nice?


How is it going? You moved out on Friday I believe?


----------



## Shkb

QuietRiot said:


> How is it going? You moved out on Friday I believe?


It’s going ok. This upcoming Friday. All my stuff is packed. Wish I could leave sooner


----------



## Shkb

Ugh guys she called me. Her location is right outside. She is here


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## Kaliber

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> Ugh guys she called me. Her location is right outside. She is here


Damn man!
Stay strong, be strong
I hope it goes well, DO NOT GIVE IN!
Tell her you need time alone to figure things out!
And you will contact her in a week or two!


----------



## ABHale

Damn, I thought she might try this. I should have said something.


----------



## Shkb

Ugh. She showed up with her sister. I locked myself in the bedroom and she started pounding on it. She saw all my things packed up and started screaming and crying. I heard her moving things around and wanted her to leave so I called the police. I started recording. I wanted a witness

The cops led me outside and I was forced to reveal my plans to her sister. Her sister gave me a hug but when I told her I’m leaving and filing for divorce she got really cold too. They got her things and left while the cops stood guard. I wish I had already filed but I will first thing in the morning now.

I’m not sure if I played this right, but if I had told her I’m divorcing she would have shown up here anyway to try to convince me to stay or something and maybe destroy my things if the cops weren’t here. Her sister said she’s taking her and won’t be back to get the rest of her stuff til I move out on Friday. What a mess


----------



## 3Xnocharm

You did good and handled that the right way. I’m sorry you had to go through that tho. At least now she knows exactly where you are with things. 

Onward, sir. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shkb

She also wouldn’t stop saying she didn’t remember having sex with her coworker. I guess she’s convinced herself and her sister of that. Makes me the bad guy


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## bobsmith

Man listen, if she wants to somehow justify her actions because she "could not remember", that is a bigger problem and certainly NOT yours! Her family might 'try' to act like you are the bad guy, but they KNOW that is not the case. Hold your head high, do not feed the drama, and stay on schedule. 

The cat is out of the bag. Not a big deal at this point! You did all you could. I am sure the cops instructed her to probably just stay away until your business in concluded. That seems the logical solution. Now you can just focus on the work at hand. 

You did the right thing by calling the cops! She needed to leave and she had her own biased witness there, which is never good. Block all communications with her. I am sure the cops informed that escalations on her part can lead to DV criminal arrests and/or restraining orders. None of which is productive. 

Just a caution though, should she try something, you need at least audio evidence and preferably video. DV matters HEAVILY favor women. All they have to do is scratch themselves and say you did it, and the will haul you off! It is a VERY crooked system BUT, to your benefit, you now have documented police involvement that you do not wish to have contact.


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## Shkb

@bobsmith Thanks, yeah. The second I heard her storm through the front door I retreated to the bedroom and started filming with my second phone while I called the cops. Our only interaction was through a locked door, once the cops came I opened it up in their presence and stayed on the porch until they left. I remembered what everyone here said and decided to err on the side of caution. Maybe it was an extreme move but I know her temper. Not going there!


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## Kamstel2

You did a good job!


----------



## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> She also wouldn’t stop saying she didn’t remember having sex with her coworker. I guess she’s convinced herself and her sister of that. Makes me the bad guy


Does her sister know she gave you an STD? I would let her know.


----------



## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> She also wouldn’t stop saying she didn’t remember having sex with her coworker. I guess she’s convinced herself and her sister of that. Makes me the bad guy


A basic rule of marriage is you don’t get to sleep with other people and spread an STD to your spouse.

She sure remembered it when she got tested, now didn’t she? That shows she is lying about not remembering or not being aware. She parked in a car and then had sex with him.


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## Thumos

We say all the time: get a VAR for your pocket and carry it around. Your WW just proved us right once again! She was hoping to foment a fight and fake a DV charge against you — now think about that. I wish one of these WW’s would surprise me for once. Make sure you get the latest $50-60 Sony var model at bestbuy tomorrow and start carrying it around in your pocket. The audio evidence will protect you.


----------



## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> @bobsmith Thanks, yeah. The second I heard her storm through the front door I retreated to the bedroom and started filming with my second phone while I called the cops. Our only interaction was through a locked door, once the cops came I opened it up in their presence and stayed on the porch until they left. I remembered what everyone here said and decided to err on the side of caution. Maybe it was an extreme move but I know her temper. Not going there!


I just want to tell you a little side note about the posters here on this forum.

There are a couple lawyers that post here occasionally (I have idea what area of law they practice though) and a couple accountants, but otherwise I do not believe there are any professional therapists or marriage counselors etc etc so nothing anyone says here should be taken as professional guidance.

*HOWEVER - *you have been going through this for the first time for a matter of weeks. 

Some of the posters here have gone through this a number of times during their lives and have remained on this site for years and have read literally hundreds of cases like yours ( WWs are surprisingly consistent and seem to follow the same playbook) 

Things may seem ‘extreme’ to the common person on the street, but these can quickly turn into extreme circumstances and we have seen these things play out time and time and time again. 

You need to follow the professional advice of your lawyer but do keep in mind that some of these people offering their insight have BTDT and have seen these things play out many times. 

You have been blinded by love with the gal and are just now starting to see her true colors. 

Many of the posters here had her number within the first few sentences of you opening post.


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## Shkb

@Thumos Her sis texted me an hour ago saying she’s sad I’m able to walk away so easily; that I made a promise and I owe it to her to give it another chance, that my STBX is committed to our marriage and getting sober and was willing to do whatever it takes blah blah. I responded respectfully that I was not going to sweep this under the rug and that I have to leave for my own sanity and safety; I also laid it all out for her, that my STBX got drunk (again) and had sex in the backseat of a car and gave me an std, then lied about it. I asked her would she stay in that situation? So if she didn’t know she knows now. Her sis responded that she understood and her and BIL love me and are there for me, which was good to hear, I was (am?) really close with them and their kids.

If she actually decides to get better and deal with her abusive tendencies then she has to do it for her, not because I roll over and let her back in, I see that would actually be the worst, and I’m going with my gut, it’s not what I want. This forum has really helped me see things clearly and strengthen my resolve and draw a real firm boundary, for myself. Filing for D is the best representation of that. Also all the advice helped me think on my feet when I was ambushed today, and lock the door and start recording right away.


----------



## Openminded

You did good. I’m guessing she had her sister communicate with you. She can’t believe she’s not going to manipulate you back. Stay cautious because she may not be through yet. Obviously, you know that no one is owed a second chance and now maybe her sister knows as well.


----------



## mickybill

If and it is a big IF your WW sobers up and starts to work on her issues like lying and having an affair you can stop the divorce, how long is the waiting period in CA it is 6 month from filing and I took couple months to file.
Or you get divorced, and in 2 or 4 years she is back to being the woman you fell in love with, and you get back together
Or you get divorced, you move on with a good life and she continues her spiral. IMO the most likely.


----------



## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> @Thumos Her sis texted me an hour ago saying she’s sad I’m able to walk away so easily; that I made a promise and I owe it to her to give it another chance, that my STBX is committed to our marriage and getting sober and was willing to do whatever it takes blah blah. I /QUOTE]
> 
> It's amazing how WS's and their family are so quick to remind the BS of the vows but seem to conveniently forget that the WS made promises to honor their spouse and keep other men's schlongs out of their jay-jays.
> 
> where was her commitment to her marriage and sobriety before she screwed some dude in a car in the middle of the night? And where was her commitment to that before she got caught and was experiencing some consequences?
> 
> I think the real reason that so many family members of WS's plead for the BS to take them back is so they don't have to deal with them and put up with them. If they can get some simp to take care of them and keep them off the street, then they don't have to look after them and take care of them.
> 
> Your job is to save yourself first. I was an army flight medic many moons ago and when I was going through the combat medic course, the first rule of being a medic was DON'T BE A CASUALTY. If you got shot then you weren't able to do your job of saving others. It's just like when the airplane loses cabin pressure. Put your oxygen mask on first so you are able to remain functional and be able to help others. If you try to help others first, you lose consciousness and then you die of hypoxia.
> 
> It's the same think when dealing with a drunkard. You have to protect yourself first or they will drag you down with them.


----------



## OutofRetirement

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I know her temper. Not going there!


You have to work on this. You were in a marriage where she cowed you over her temper and possible reactions. You should never allowed that dynamic to continue in your relationship from minute one. If you truly believe her temper is such that she would destroy your property or assault you, you have to learn how to handle that to not allow yourself to be intimidated and bullied.

The more you write, the more I believe some type of counseling might help you deal with people like your wife.


----------



## QuietRiot

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> She also wouldn’t stop saying she didn’t remember having sex with her coworker. I guess she’s convinced herself and her sister of that. Makes me the bad guy


Why the flying eff does it matter if she does not remember getting wasted and penetrated?!?! I don’t rememebr so I get a free pass! Because that’s how life works, even if she wasn’t lying. Un-effin-believable. Don’t buy that crap for one iota of a second my friend.


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## Buffer

Strength brother


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## Shkb

And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises. Telling me about AA and how she’s done with drinking. Asking me to stay, to give it time, begging me not to leave. What am I supposed to do with this


----------



## manwithnoname

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises. Telling me about AA and how she’s done with drinking. Asking me to stay, to give it time, begging me not to leave. What am I supposed to do with this


If you give in to it, you would be rugsweeping, something you said you will not do.


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## Shkb

manwithnoname said:


> If you give in to it, you would be rugsweeping, something you said you will not do.


I’m definitely not. I’m going forward with my plan. Maybe the feelings are complicated but there’s more to it than just the physical affair; the drinking, the destructive patterns of behavior, the need for attention, they would always lead back to this place. I can’t. She’s trying to say I’m giving up. I’m like, I’m saving myself, I’m choosing me for once


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## Andy1001

She sees herself as a prize and up until now you have enabled her in this thinking. 
She figures if she just gives you enough time you will come back and everything will go back to normal.


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## 3Xnocharm

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises. Telling me about AA and how she’s done with drinking. Asking me to stay, to give it time, begging me not to leave. What am I supposed to do with this


You ignore it and keep moving forward with your plan. She disrespected you and the commitment she made to you. She is the one who gave up the marriage, not you. You’ve been doing great, don’t allow her to drag you backwards because she’s upset you are upending her life. That’s the consequence she gets to pay for what she’s done. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bobert

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises. Telling me about AA and how she’s done with drinking. Asking me to stay, to give it time, begging me not to leave. What am I supposed to do with this


Love bombing may feel good, but it's not a good thing. Ignore it.

How is she love bombing you if you have her number blocked and she's living with her sister? Whatever her method of communication is, block it. You don't have kids so you have no reason to stay in contact.


----------



## Shkb

bobert said:


> Love bombing may feel good, but it's not a good thing. Ignore it.


We’ve been here before and I have given in. Right to the edge because of drinking and dysfunction, then that’s her time to step up with the poetry and the declarations and promises. I’m beginning to see she may be addicted to that part of the process too; the destruction, the reconciliation. I’m NOT doing it anymore, I am leaving and I made it very clear this time! I refuse to be her masochist, it isn’t my purpose in life, I have more to offer. I’m still filing!

She emailed me. She wants to take over the apartment and for me to leave the furniture. I said fine, take it all! I’m in touch with my landlord and he’s taking me off the lease.


----------



## Tdbo

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises. Telling me about AA and how she’s done with drinking. Asking me to stay, to give it time, begging me not to leave. What am I supposed to do with this


You follow through with your original plan.
Regardless of if you D or R, you need to regain your agency in your relationship.
You need to be able to deal from a position of strength. Someone needs to have some self-control in your relationship.
Obviously, she has none.
You, simply need to get yourself out of the mess you are in. Your wife needs to learn the concept of actions and consequences.
Damn your torpedoes and full speed ahead! If she truly is willing to do the work to fix her malfunctions, show genuine remorse, and do what is required to save the relationship, you can always slow the proceedings down or cancel them.
However, it has to be on her. Everything. She needs to be broken down to base level, to rebuild things in her life the right way.
All you need to focus on is #1. That's you.


----------



## Tdbo

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I’m definitely not. I’m going forward with my plan. Maybe the feelings are complicated but there’s more to it than just the physical affair; the drinking, the destructive patterns of behavior, the need for attention, they would always lead back to this place. I can’t. She’s trying to say I’m giving up. I’m like, I’m saving myself, I’m choosing me for once


Good for you.
If she is genuinely sorry, she needs to take the opportunity to work on herself.
She needs to learn how to accept personal responsibility. It's not you that is giving up on her, it's that she threw you away.


----------



## Tdbo

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> We’ve been here before and I have given in. Right to the edge because of drinking and dysfunction, then that’s her time to step up with the poetry and the declarations and promises. I’m beginning to see she may be addicted to that part of the process too; the destruction, the reconciliation. I’m NOT doing it anymore, I am leaving and I made it very clear this time! I refuse to be her masochist, it isn’t my purpose in life, I have more to offer. I’m still filing!
> 
> She emailed me. She wants to take over the apartment and for me to leave the furniture. I said fine, take it all! I’m in touch with my landlord and he’s taking me off the lease.


Good, take the distance she is offering you.
However, you haven't heard the last from her. She'll regroup. Be ready.


----------



## Openminded

She’s doing it because it worked in the past. If/when you respond, it encourages her to think she’ll win this time too. Don’t expect her to give up because that’s not how it works with people used to getting their way. Ignore her and move forward.


----------



## oldshirt

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises. Telling me about AA and how she’s done with drinking. Asking me to stay, to give it time, begging me not to leave. What am I supposed to do with this


If she’s been completely sober for a few years and hasn’t hooked up with any f—k boyz in cars and has completely transformed herself into an honest and productive member of society for a few years and you happen to be single at that time, you can consider it then.

But everything coming out her pie hole now is drunken promises and desperate attempts to hold on to her gravy train. 

This is one of those show me the money moments. 

Show you years of complete sobriety, honesty, dedication and faithfulness and maybe (MAYBE) you’ll consider it then.


----------



## Thumos

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> What am I supposed to do with this


Negative, ghost rider. The pattern is full.

Do not engage. I repeat, do not engage.


----------



## RandomDude

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises. Telling me about AA and how she’s done with drinking. Asking me to stay, to give it time, begging me not to leave. What am I supposed to do with this


🤦‍♂️

I would be laughing in her face but also quite frankly insulted she would think it would work on me. No, just no.


----------



## OutofRetirement

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> we were together for 3 when we were younger, we reconnected as adults and decided to really go for it. We fell madly back in love and got married. ... I do love her, we were each other’s first relationship in high school. The marriage has been a lot of highs and a lot of lows and complicated emotions.
> 
> *she said she was very drunk and they were just talking about work and life and stuff before we moved
> 
> She claims she doesn’t even remember and was blacked out
> 
> she was sober enough to lie to me, and continue to concoct a story when I was accusing her of cheating *
> 
> He was my friend too, or thought he was, and we’d all hung out together many times.
> 
> *found months of messages*, ... lots of flirty stuff and a few times where she told him he needed to stop *talking dirty and getting handsy with her*, that she was married, and he responded with he knows the boundaries. Guess that was bs.
> 
> Looking through her instagram it was *almost daily communication* with her coworker and very in-depth, *lots of i miss you’s and even i love you’s*. Flirty stuff. She was not drunk for a lot of this,
> 
> just constantly communicating with other people, she has a million friends and is still in contact with a number of her exes.
> 
> *she’s still friends with exes* and has a lot of friendships and connections that I don’t think she’d be willing to untangle if I ever told her to cut off contact. Headache.
> 
> *She’s always been flirty*, that’s just who she is, outgoing and gregarious
> 
> *She doesn’t have a great track record* with past relationships
> 
> *flirty inappropriate relationships*.
> 
> I’ve certainly uncovered a few emotional affairs that went too far in my opinion but not hers;
> 
> lots of I miss you’s and flirtatious stuff with friends and exes.
> 
> There are obviously no boundaries with her, I never set them, and
> 
> her need for attention seems to have no limit.
> 
> seems addicted to validation and sexual attention and incapable or unwilling to draw boundaries or hard lines with other guys
> 
> This is her pattern of behavior
> 
> _*She kissed my best friend in high school at a party and I caught them. I was very upset. It was pretty traumatic for me.
> 
> She did this to her last partner and told me all about it.*_*
> 
> Obviously she has some void she needs filled with attention, I can’t fix that for her no matter how hard I tried*
> 
> I am in no hurry to reconcile. And now I have an std to treat which is just a nightmare
> 
> She tried to put a time limit on it (3 weeks)
> 
> already been here, had all kinds of fights and bad experiences with the binge drinking
> 
> I’ve put my foot down before but change is always temporary
> 
> *She literally got wasted last night, after I found out about the cheating* while she tried to blame the drinking.


Rhetorical question. If she couldn't remember, why did she tell you they were just talking, why didn't she tell you she couldn't remember?

The chef probably was not the first affair she's had, and I am not buying what she's selling that she couldn't remember the sex, and from what I could see this was an ongoing affair, not a one-time thing.

If you want to divorce, then once you told her you are filing and the papers will be delivered to her, then only respond to the divorce-related details of dissolving the marriage. If you want to try again, that's your decision to make. Her drinking is not the main problem; the main problem is her limitless need for other men (notice it's always guys who are attractive enough and in the age group that she could have an affair with, never women, never unattractive men, never older men, not relatives - just guys who could banter about sexual flirting; I call them "orbiters."

Understand, I had many girlfriends, a few serious, a few moderately so, before I got married, I have four brothers and two sisters in close enough age as my own, a ton of friends between the bunch of us, so I feel I can identify types of men and women as far as relationship issues almost as second nature. I personally have seen alcoholics turn it around, but not without a number of relapses; but I have never seen an attention-seeker ever change. I had one brother whose girlfriend practically begged to marry for a few years and finally he proposed, then a month later found her cheating with her boss (my brother had been her boss when they met) and apparently she had a long history (discovered later) that she had always gotten involved with her boss, and switched jobs "upward" frequently, maybe twice a year it seems. PATTERNS - very difficult to change. Very rarely do I ever meet someone I knew in high school and they have changed very much as far as relationship patterns.

I have patterns. YOU have PATTERNS. That is what you can fix, these women you are involved with, you cannot. Your wife, or rather soon-to-be-ex-wife, was drinking when you got together, was flirty when you got together, was flirty (and I am going to assume drinking) when she was in high school, and she was flirty and drinking with all the high adventures she regaled you with. I went on those adventure rides mostly as a passenger, but what a fun ride, ups and downs, never boring. I can see you enjoyed that ride as a passenger mostly, too, and it seems you too grew bored with THAT kind of excitement and drama and highs and lows. It may seem you were on that ride with her together, but I can see that she was driving, and you were the passenger.

Do you find it coincidental that you ended your high school romance when she cheated on you physically with a friend? And now you finally are ending it again when she cheated on you physically with a friend? Can you see that about you, not just her?

First she told you let's just forget it the very next day. Then she gave you three weeks to get over it. Now she has given you some other instruction of what you need to do for her. You mentioned you've allowed her to have few consequences a number of times in the past.

You also questioned, does she enjoy the "breakup" moment and the ensuing drama and "high" of getting back together, re-setting the relationship - yes, that is her pattern. She enjoys the highs. And you can't be happy without knowing sad, you can't know highs unless you know lows, and some people like rollercoasters and some do not.

Did you ever wonder, did you ever watch rollercoasters? Who rides them, younger people or older people, in general? Are there many 40-year-olds riding rollercoasters? Why is it that older people stop riding rollercoasters so much?


----------



## Affaircare

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises. Telling me about AA and how she’s done with drinking. Asking me to stay, to give it time, begging me not to leave. What am I supposed to do with this


@shouldhaveknownbetter,

I would like to point out to you that this love-bombing is actually part of the pattern: it is yet another step in the Cycle of Abuse:









I like this visual because it shows both sides: the abuser's side and the victim's side (although I prefer the term "survivor" myself, but that's another story!). See, it goes around and around through these stages...almost predictably really! We know about the "Acute Explosion" stage. In a domestic violence situation, that would be where the abuser hits, slaps, kicks or chokes the victim. In YOUR situation it's more like emtional and verbal abuse, so it's the stage where she gets drunk, screws other men in the back seat of a car, screams and yells, threatens you, prevents you from protecting yourself, etc. You know that stage easy, right?

The stage RIGHT AFTER the Acute Explosion is called "The Honeymoon"...and for a reason! The abuser wants to keep you in the cycle (so they have someone to keep abusing) so they make promises to get help, send flowers and poems, say how sorry they are...and look, they "BLAME ALCOHOL FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR"! What they are hoping for is the victim's response: drop legal proceeding, agree to return, make a counseling appointment "for the abuser"...and continue the cycle. 

The stage right after The Honeymoon is the Tension Building stage, and I bet you're familiar with it. You walk on eggshells, afraid to say or do whatever to "set her off". You try to explain yourself, and "no I didn't mean it that way." And she is irritable, sensitive, withholding whatever it is you want/need (affection, sex, attention)...basically she's looking to pick a fight so she can...

...have an Acute Explosion and start this whole cycle again! 

So far, you've said yourself that you've come right to the brink of leaving before, and you went back. So far her attempts to continue the cycle have worked! So far, when The Honeymoom stage hits, you've wanted to believe her and thought "Ah ha, there's the loving girl I know is in there!" But @shouldhaveknownbetter allow the scales to fall off your eyes. It is just another step in the cycle. It is not "real." Real, ACTUAL change would look like this: 
1) She would take personal responsibility for her actions. She would not blame any substance or person, but rather would say something to the effect that she realizes she's an adult and responsible for her choices, and that she knows she chose to do and say things that destroyed the relationship. 
2) She would admit to herself and out loud to others that she is an abuser (emotionally and verbally at least) and most likely addicted to alcohol. 
3) She would have a desire from within herself to get to counseling for her abuse issues and to something like AA for her alcoholism, and she'd set all that up herself and get her own self there (and back) and do the work on herself by herself for herself. Honestly, she'd probably say something like she needs some time to herself to straighten herself out and she'd understand if you couldn't or didn't want to wait while she worked on herself. 
4) She would see you as a valuable whole separate entity (not an extension of herself) and want and encourage you to do whatever you needed to do in order to heal yourself. If she's not doing at least these four things...THEN SHE HASN'T REALLY, TRULY CHANGED AND IT IS PART OF THE HONEYMOON STAGE. 

Finally, when she tries to blame you for "quitting" or blame you for being the one who broke up the marriage because you are filing for divorce, you don't need to tell this to her per se, but just remind your own self that she committed adultery. Adultery is an action that is a marriage killer. Her actions and then her lack of admitting she was wrong...THOSE are the actual actions that broke up the marriage, not you putting on paper what her actions actually DID. All you did was acknowledge that her actions have smashed to smithereens whatever connection there was, and since she ACTED that way, you are putting into legal format what her actions did. Make sense?


----------



## QuietRiot

OutofRetirement said:


> Rhetorical question. If she couldn't remember, why did she tell you they were just talking, why didn't she tell you she couldn't remember?
> 
> The chef probably was not the first affair she's had, and I am not buying what she's selling that she couldn't remember the sex, and from what I could see this was an ongoing affair, not a one-time thing.
> 
> If you want to divorce, then once you told her you are filing and the papers will be delivered to her, then only respond to the divorce-related details of dissolving the marriage. If you want to try again, that's your decision to make. Her drinking is not the main problem; the main problem is her limitless need for other men (notice it's always guys who are attractive enough and in the age group that she could have an affair with, never women, never unattractive men, never older men, not relatives - just guys who could banter about sexual flirting; I call them "orbiters."
> 
> Understand, I had many girlfriends, a few serious, a few moderately so, before I got married, I have four brothers and two sisters in close enough age as my own, a ton of friends between the bunch of us, so I feel I can identify types of men and women as far as relationship issues almost as second nature. I personally have seen alcoholics turn it around, but not without a number of relapses; but I have never seen an attention-seeker ever change. I had one brother whose girlfriend practically begged to marry for a few years and finally he proposed, then a month later found her cheating with her boss (my brother had been her boss when they met) and apparently she had a long history (discovered later) that she had always gotten involved with her boss, and switched jobs "upward" frequently, maybe twice a year it seems. PATTERNS - very difficult to change. Very rarely do I ever meet someone I knew in high school and they have changed very much as far as relationship patterns.
> 
> I have patterns. YOU have PATTERNS. That is what you can fix, these women you are involved with, you cannot. Your wife, or rather soon-to-be-ex-wife, was drinking when you got together, was flirty when you got together, was flirty (and I am going to assume drinking) when she was in high school, and she was flirty and drinking with all the high adventures she regaled you with. I went on those adventure rides mostly as a passenger, but what a fun ride, ups and downs, never boring. I can see you enjoyed that ride as a passenger mostly, too, and it seems you too grew bored with THAT kind of excitement and drama and highs and lows. It may seem you were on that ride with her together, but I can see that she was driving, and you were the passenger.
> 
> Do you find it coincidental that you ended your high school romance when she cheated on you physically with a friend? And now you finally are ending it again when she cheated on you physically with a friend? Can you see that about you, not just her?
> 
> First she told you let's just forget it the very next day. Then she gave you three weeks to get over it. Now she has given you some other instruction of what you need to do for her. You mentioned you've allowed her to have few consequences a number of times in the past.
> 
> You also questioned, does she enjoy the "breakup" moment and the ensuing drama and "high" of getting back together, re-setting the relationship - yes, that is her pattern. She enjoys the highs. And you can't be happy without knowing sad, you can't know highs unless you know lows, and some people like rollercoasters and some do not.
> 
> Did you ever wonder, did you ever watch rollercoasters? Who rides them, younger people or older people, in general? Are there many 40-year-olds riding rollercoasters? Why is it that older people stop riding rollercoasters so much?


How does one keep from repeating these patterns, how do you stay strong enough to override your faulty core of choices? I’m working on this myself with counseling, but... maybe the question is how do you know when to trust yourself to pick meaningful relationships again? Not just the spouse, but friendships that you realize are completely unhealthy too... 
do you just work at it and know when you’re there...refuse to make those decisions until you are there?


----------



## bobsmith

Thumos said:


> Negative, ghost rider. The pattern is full.
> 
> Do not engage. I repeat, do not engage.


This and nothing more! Let me tell you..... she will pull you in with pathetic promises, she will do just enough to keep you around, and she will repeat your first post. I could detail this all out but I seriously hope by now you realize you HAVE to get away from her! Do not change stance, do not look back. FULL SEND


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## Divinely Favored

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> She also wouldn’t stop saying she didn’t remember having sex with her coworker. I guess she’s convinced herself and her sister of that. Makes me the bad guy


Tell her. , "Then go file rape charges on him! Otherwise do not speak to me!!"


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## Thumos

Divinely Favored said:


> Tell her. , "Then go file rape charges on him! Otherwise do not speak to me!!"


This exactly. She remembers. The proof is how she “remembers” everything but the sex — and then got tested for an STD. What could possibly make her think she had an STD if she didn’t remember having sex with him? See how that works. Simple logic.


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## Divinely Favored

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> We’ve been here before and I have given in. Right to the edge because of drinking and dysfunction, then that’s her time to step up with the poetry and the declarations and promises. I’m beginning to see she may be addicted to that part of the process too; the destruction, the reconciliation. I’m NOT doing it anymore, I am leaving and I made it very clear this time! I refuse to be her masochist, it isn’t my purpose in life, I have more to offer. I’m still filing!
> 
> She emailed me. She wants to take over the apartment and for me to leave the furniture. I said fine, take it all! I’m in touch with my landlord and he’s taking me off the lease.


Good for her she has a place to bring the Fbuddy instead of on the street in the back seat.


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## sunsetmist

IMO: She should never have been in the car with him in the first place--never flirted--never texted. She likes living on the edge (drinks and takes random drugs not prescribed for her) and lacks boundaries in many areas. It is sad, indeed, for both. Your choices must be more valid than hers to protect yourself. He could have been HIV+ and you still do not know about HPV. 

Right now is likely the most difficult time, because you will get many opinions/versions. Figure out who you are and what you stand for. You are doing well. Lawyer is key.


----------



## QuietRiot

sunsetmist said:


> IMO: She should never been in the car with him in the first place--never flirted--never texted. She likes living on the edge (drinks and takes random drugs not prescribed for her) and lacks boundaries in many areas. It is sad, indeed, for both. Your choices must be more valid than hers to protect yourself. He could have been HIV+ and you still do not know about HPV.
> 
> Right now is likely the most difficult time, because you will get many opinions/versions. Figure out who you are and what you stand for. You are doing well. Lawyer is key.


Right, it wasn’t just one mistake, it was a series of choices. Many, many choices and all of them betrayals.


----------



## Buffer

She has to hit rock bottom to really want to change. Has she hit bottom?
I believe she is there. She has lost her marriage, her life has changed for ever. Can she afford the apartment and still go into her educational rout? Most likely not.
One day at a time.
Buffer


----------



## ABHale

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises. Telling me about AA and how she’s done with drinking. Asking me to stay, to give it time, begging me not to leave. What am I supposed to do with this


At the present time continue with your plan. You need to heal and your STBX needs to fix herself.

After the divorce and healing is done, it is up to you if you want to try again. This will also prove if she is able to get her life back on track.


----------



## OutofRetirement

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> And now she’s love-bombing me. Poems, promises.


I'd love to hear the poems. Are they any good?

By the way, I don't believe anyone ever wrote a poem for me.


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## Shkb

OutofRetirement said:


> I'd love to hear the poems. Are they any good?.


They are. She’s got a way with words, she has a journalism degree..Something about me leaving seems to inspire her, she hasn’t written anything really in ages, she’d just been watching TV for hours and hours. When we got back together she read me a bunch of poetry about me in her diary, yeah beautiful, real stuff. So maybe this is a good thing for her creativity ha. When we finally broke up in high school I wrote a whole album of emo songs too, poured my angsty teenage heart out. We actually stayed together for 9 months after I caught her kissing my best friend. We got back together the very next day. I remember it being like bittersweet, torture, because I loved her and it was the only love I’d known, and I had her, but couldn’t stop thinking about it, and I was really emasculated, weak, distant after that. I didn’t know how to deal with it. Ruined my friendship with the guy too, gave him a big ego.

Yesterday we exchanged a few lengthy emails. At first she was saying we can fix this, go to therapy, our love is true and permanent and we’re soulmates. I responded with how hurt I was, how I need to draw a boundary, how my heart is broken and the trust is shattered and I need a lot of time and distance from her, more than 3 weeks, more than a year, and forever if she doesn’t get sober because her drinking and underlying issues make everything so hard. I said her actions have led us to the same sick place over and over again and I refuse to be on the other end of her destructive, selfish behavior anymore, that she never tried to truly change while we were together, maybe she will now but not with me around, too late, I’m putting myself first and leaving.

I said I won’t be her enabler and suffer the heartache anymore, it’s making me sick too. I basically just laid it all out, I wasn’t mean and was careful with my words but I didn’t sugarcoat it, and I didn’t waffle in the decision I’m making at all, or offer any opening, I just said this is it and I’m out, and we worked out the details with the furniture and the pets, which is basically she gets it all ha. I’m just taking the girl cat. Whatever. Maybe I could have gotten into my mistakes and shortcomings, but I resisted playing some kind of blame game, I’m not there; she said we speak different love languages, that we did the best we could for each other but both fell short, and that she looked to me to be her guiding light but I wasn’t ready for that, and was abandoning her when she needed me the most. Hmm. I think she also has a fantasy of me falling apart, she’s ‘worried’ about me, she ‘knows’ me and how I get ‘depressed’. Like, anyone would! This sucks! But I’m good. I’m strong, I know I’m going to take care of myself.

Maybe I should have blocked her email too but I feel, the way we we loved each other, and the fact we’ve known each other since we were kids, maybe makes it easier to communicate these things and just tell the truth. It feels like the tension has broken. Now her last email says she doesn’t want to make this difficult or have a legal battle, she wants this to be an easy break, she appreciates me paying October rent and leaving the furniture here, that I’m a good person and she loves me and hopes I find happiness, and that she’s sorry. She says she won’t cause a scene or contact me again, I can go in peace.

Maybe part of her wanted this, I don’t know. And yeah now she has the place to herself and I wouldn’t be surprised if she strikes things up with other old flames or even her coworker once she laughs off that he ‘took advantage’ of her. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them cheek-to-cheek on social media, someone else will take my place, she hates being alone. I actually don’t care what she does anymore, not my business. I’m trying not to be bitter and sad but I did have a cry last night, I haven’t actually had many feelings since this all went down.


----------



## Thumos

She's no prize. That's for sure.

"Every wise woman builds her house, but the foolish one tears it down with her own hands." ~Proverbs 14:1

"An adulterous woman consumes a man, then wipes her mouth and says, “What’s wrong with that?” ~Proverbs 30:20

"Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife." ~Proverbs 21:9


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## Thumos

poems? I would have a hard time not rolling my eyes.

Are they anything like: "Roses are red, violets are blue, I screwed another man, but I still love you!"

Or ...

"Roses are red, violets are blue. I got chlamydia and gave it to you!"

Or...

There was once was a girl who got chlamydia.
She gave it to her husband, then swore she was stunned.
He reacted by asking "how do I get rid of ya?"


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## Evinrude58

She talks about this great “soulmate” Love you had, and so do YOU.
I urge you to realize that this love that YOU felt was a helluva lot different than what SHE felt. Her kind of love allows 22 yr old men to grope, flirt, and **** her in the backseat of a car, along with enabling her to kiss your best friend. Guaranteed lots worse that you don’t even know about.
You need to remember that your “soulmate” treated you in a way that simply used you. Your loyalty and responsibility enabled her a nest to be comfortable and safe, while offering herself to other men.

She does NOT live you like you love her. It’s hard to wrap one’s head around that, but it’s something you should think about whenever you’re considering getting back together with her. 
I advise against going back to a chronic serial cheater.


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## Shkb

Evinrude58 said:


> She does NOT live you like you love her. It’s hard to wrap one’s head around that, but it’s something you should think about whenever you’re considering getting back together with her.


Yeah you’re right..I guess she loved me how she is capable of loving, she’s done this over and over, it’s her pattern and I don’t know why I expected a different outcome. It was definitely not the kind of love that I need, it didn’t make me feel safe or even good a lot of the time. Mostly anxious and sad and insecure actually. I guess I am preparing myself to miss her and her presence in my life, we always made each other laugh. I hadn’t gone a day without talking to her since we got back together. It’s like a withdrawal. But I know drugs aren’t healthy..

I didn’t leave any door open for us to get back together, never mentioned that to her. It hasn’t actually crossed my mind, what I meant here, if she’s sober for a long period I would consider even talking to her as a friend. BTDT now with us. I’d have to be a fool. I already was, again. Nope, done! For real this time. I mean, there’s billions of people in the world and plenty of fish in the sea.

In time maybe I’ll make room for a new relationship, one that hopefully doesn’t have all this baggage and issues...I’m optimistic. Someone that treats me right, reciprocally. That’s out there right? I hope I’m not too jaded now. I’m worried now I’ll be afraid to open myself up even when I’m ready. All this time and energy and money invested in this pile of trash of a marriage. What was even the point. Lessons learned I guess. I need to work on what I’ll tolerate and set boundaries from the beginning. But I’ll deal with that down the road, it’s me time now, time to get to work on myself. I think the gym is calling my name


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## Thumos

It’s out there. There are dozens of women in your geographic proximity you will find attractive and who will reciprocate, who you will be compatible with and who will make you happy. They are also not cheaters and users.


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## Thumos

We could do some haiku here too while we’re at it...

Drunk wife and man have car sex.
Willing sex brings shock.
Husband finds worth and leaves her.


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## bobsmith

Thumos said:


> It’s out there. There are dozens of women in your geographic proximity you will find attractive and who will reciprocate, who you will be compatible with and who will make you happy. They are also not cheaters and users.


Everyone loves fairy tales. Unfortunately I live in the real world now. This forums serves very well as proof of the actual real world. Cheating, lack of sex, and divorce are all part of marriage. I chose to get another dog.


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## Shkb

bobsmith said:


> I chose to get another dog.


That’s what I’m thinking...already asked the new landlord if I can get one and she said yes


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## QuietRiot

bobsmith said:


> Everyone loves fairy tales. Unfortunately I live in the real world now. This forums serves very well as proof of the actual real world. Cheating, lack of sex, and divorce are all part of marriage. I chose to get another dog.


I definitely do not believe in soulmates... unless you’re talking about dogs. They really are the best. I wish they lived longer. Can’t really cuddle up the same way with a tortoise.


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## bobsmith

I trained and worked with my dog since 8weeks old. She is literally with me nearly 24/7. Has seen me through all the drama, and all she wants is a little food and petting. Pretty much my ESA. I think everyone is telling me to get another pup going because they know I am going to lose my **** when this one dies. I put years into her training and I trust her to take my darkest secrets to her grave....lol


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## phillybeffandswiss

Be *VERY CAREFUL* about what you say in emails. Honestly, next meeting with your lawyer show him what you have sent. You are filing for divorce, texts and emails can be used to hurt you.


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## Shkb

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Be *VERY CAREFUL* about what you say in emails. Honestly, next meeting with your lawyer show him what you have sent. You are filing for divorce, texts and emails can be used to hurt you.


I just re-read everything. I was very careful to stick to the facts and didn’t get too emotional, I couldn’t find one thing I said that she could turn against me, unless ‘you can have everything, I don’t care about stuff’ could include my bank account too...I don’t know we’ll find out how hard she wants to fight it in 6 months. The only thing I’m taking of our shared things is our girl cat, who she doesn’t like anyway, she chews on her clothes and plants and messes with her jewelry. She’s my girl


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## Thumos

I don’t believe in soulmates. I do believe lots of people are compatible with each other and plenty don’t cheat. For example, I know I don’t cheat. I also know several betrayed women who have never cheated and never would. Thus I don’t think the prospect of finding another suitable monogamous partner to be a fairy tale at all.


----------



## midatlanticdad

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I just re-read everything. I was very careful to stick to the facts and didn’t get too emotional, I couldn’t find one thing I said that she could turn against me, unless ‘you can have everything, I don’t care about stuff’ could include my bank account too...I don’t know we’ll find out how hard she wants to fight it in 6 months. The only thing I’m taking of our shared things is our girl cat, who she doesn’t like anyway, she chews on her clothes and plants and messes with her jewelry. She’s my girl


that's good - even still i think the advice is solid - the less communication the better especially discussing anything past or future. not advocating cutting off totally but the less you commuicate the fewer the chances for anything to come up later or to give false hope.

good luck, from my perspective you are doing amazingly well at choosing the right path to heal. keep it up


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## bobsmith

Thumos said:


> I don’t believe in soulmates. I do believe lots of people are compatible with each other and plenty don’t cheat. For example, I know I don’t cheat. I also know several betrayed women who have never cheated and never would. Thus I don’t think the prospect of finding another suitable monogamous partner to be a fairy tale at all.


So do these special people have a special marking or something? Maybe a "cheatless" tattoo somewhere? The facts remain, one partner maybe very well be cheatless, but a union where they are BOTH cheatless is very rare these days. It was common with the older generations but not much today. How can you really tell? Waste many years with a person and carefully track them like a hawk. I cannot even imagine going through life having to track my partner's every move to ensure they are faithful.....


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## Thumos

I guess you're right insofar as the odds are worse than the "olden times" but otherwise I don't understand your point. There are no guarantees in life for anything at all. We can't guarantee being hit by a meteor or in a horrific car crash either. What are you precisely advocating here? An interspecies relationship as being an improvement or what? Be specific.


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## jlg07

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I just re-read everything. I was very careful to stick to the facts and didn’t get too emotional, I couldn’t find one thing I said that she could turn against me, unless ‘you can have everything, I don’t care about stuff’ could include my bank account too...I don’t know we’ll find out how hard she wants to fight it in 6 months. The only thing I’m taking of our shared things is our girl cat, who she doesn’t like anyway, she chews on her clothes and plants and messes with her jewelry. She’s my girl


Make sure you just follow up with an email that STATES that you mean the furniture and NOT the $$$!


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## Shkb

I did it. Filed for divorce today. Gave the court my Mom’s address so she won’t know where I’m going. The summons will be in the mail tomorrow and I’ll get them served to her here at the apartment next week instead of at her sister’s.

Thanks everyone for your advice. You all helped me see the reality of the situation from an unbiased, wisened perspective. Many words in your responses have been ringing through my head throughout this process. I’m so glad I found this forum, so I didn’t feel so alone and confused. Though I know this isn’t exactly over yet and is going to be tough, I feel I’m on the right track, and have been since the moment I reached out to y’all. All my stuff is packed and ready go, I’m outta here. And I know it’s the right choice, for me. Onwards!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I did it. Filed for divorce today. Gave the court my Mom’s address so she won’t know where I’m going. The summons will be in the mail tomorrow and I’ll get them served to her here at the apartment next week instead of at her sister’s.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your advice. You all helped me see the reality of the situation from an unbiased, wisened perspective. Many words in your responses have been ringing through my head throughout this process. I’m so glad I found this forum, so I didn’t feel so alone and confused. Though I know this isn’t exactly over yet and is going to be tough, I feel I’m on the right track, and have been since the moment I reached out to y’all. All my stuff is packed and ready go, I’m outta here. And I know it’s the right choice, for me. Onwards!


Good for you!

Best wishes, and hang tough.


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## Thumos

You've handled this like a boss.


----------



## Affaircare




----------



## sunsetmist

In a moment of recent loneliness, I thought about asking God to send the perfect guy for me. He sent me the most wonderful, cuddly (male) dog ever.


----------



## Buffer

Stand by the storm intensity will increase. The papers are the eye of the storm, then the course out of the marriage will be the boat being tossed around whilst she comes to term that she can't manipulate back into the toxic cycle she is in.
One day at a time.
Buffer


----------



## ABHale

Just sorry you had to go through all of this.

Stay strong and do some dating in a few months or when you feel like it. You are going to need companionship.


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## OutofRetirement

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> She literally got wasted last night, after I found out about the cheating while she tried to blame the drinking. ... she was definitely showing signs of being a binge drinking alcoholic, getting absolutely trashed for whatever reason and acting very inappropriately, I started to dread her drunk self.


In a situation like yours, I always wonder if she had cheated before this and didn't get caught. I would assume because of her drinking and attention-seeking combination, that this probably happened a number of times before this. She's about 34 years old and she was willing to have sex in the back seat of a car with 22-year-old guy. The ONLY reason you found out - TWO MONTHS LATER - was that she had an STD. So, anyone can tell me anything they want, but I 

I married about 30, before that I had a robust single lifestyle with plenty of partying; as I got older in my later 20s, the partiers were older, too, a fair number of them married, and I've seen a lot of cheating. All of my wild stories - and I have many - ALL came from someone being drunk. Really, some of the stories, I would never believe if someone else told them, they are that wild and out of control. The cheaters usually got caught, but only because (like I assume with your wife) they did it so many times. Usually the spouse did not suspect much because the drunken behavior had become, if not "normal," then at least a regular occurrence.


----------



## OutofRetirement

shouldhaveknownbetter said:


> I did it. Filed for divorce today. ... Though I know this isn’t exactly over yet and is going to be tough, I feel I’m on the right track, and have been since the moment I reached out to y’all. All my stuff is packed and ready go, I’m outta here. And I know it’s the right choice, for me. Onwards!


I'm sorry this is the way it turned out, but from what I could see, this is absolutely needed FOR HER as well as for you. With this, she may change. Without it, I don't believe she would change, as I posted a minute ago, she said she'd stop, then did it the next day.

In the past few months, maybe with the quarantine stuff going on, I've heard a number of times about people drinking too much. And I heard two different times from people who stopped drinking years ago, they claim to have quit in one day because of reading just one book. I haven't read the book, so I am skeptical, except the people who told me it worked for them are not the type of people to make stuff up. The book is _The Easy Way to Stop Drinking_ by Allen Carr.


----------



## SunCMars

bobsmith said:


> Everyone loves fairy tales. Unfortunately I live in the real world now. This forums serves very well as proof of the actual real world. Cheating, lack of sex, and divorce are all part of marriage. I chose to get another dog.


I read that and thought something....else.

Someone who no longer has faith in the perfumed half of Mankind.

I hope that is not the case, longterm.


----------



## Divinely Favored

OutofRetirement said:


> In a situation like yours, I always wonder if she had cheated before this and didn't get caught. I would assume because of her drinking and attention-seeking combination, that this probably happened a number of times before this. She's about 34 years old and she was willing to have sex in the back seat of a car with 22-year-old guy. The ONLY reason you found out - TWO MONTHS LATER - was that she had an STD. So, anyone can tell me anything they want, but I
> 
> I married about 30, before that I had a robust single lifestyle with plenty of partying; as I got older in my later 20s, the partiers were older, too, a fair number of them married, and I've seen a lot of cheating. All of my wild stories - and I have many - ALL came from someone being drunk. Really, some of the stories, I would never believe if someone else told them, they are that wild and out of control. The cheaters usually got caught, but only because (like I assume with your wife) they did it so many times. Usually the spouse did not suspect much because the drunken behavior had become, if not "normal," then at least a regular occurrence.


I agree. When i was 23 i was living with a 34yr old divorce nympho. She about ran me in the ground. Even tried to lend me to her 35yr old best friend one night. Her 35 yr old friend, a tall brunet nurse came in bedroom in a black lace teddy and stockings as i layed on the bed and asked if i wanted to spend the night with her that night. 
Should have know it was not just a test but as a monogamous guy i said thanks but no. Truck broke down at work one night, called and told her i would jus stay at bunkhouse by Hqs. She went to club, i replaced headgasket and drove to her house about 2am as i knew she would be back. Low and behold, that was not my truck in her drive.


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## 3Xnocharm

So did you get moved? How are you doing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shkb

Made the 8 hour drive today and just finished moving all my things into my new place. A place of my own! Feels very peaceful and liberating. I started reading Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life last night. Words to live by. I’ll keep you all updated, just going to get back to my life and try to make it good!


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## 3Xnocharm

Way to go! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shortbus

Good for you. I've not read that book, but I'm familiar with her website.
It is by far, the best way out of infidelity!
Far tastier than the **** sandwich of reconciliation.
Other opinions may differ, I couldn't give a **** less.
Good luck going forward.


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## Kamstel2

Congratulations on escaping from the hell she put you in. 

Now, enjoy creating your new life. No looking back!


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## 3Xnocharm

Ignore the red pill bullcrap spouted above. Just don’t allow yourself to be a doormat. 

How are you feeling now that you are a couple days in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lucy999

I just read this whole thread. You, sir, are a rockstar. You acted with the precision of a surgeon. You have extricated your STBX like the cancerous tumor she is. 

I hope you are enjoying your new-found tranquility and peace with your cat, and making your new place a home. 

TBH, I thought you were faltering a bit during those email exchanges, but you made it through. 

Congratulations. I am thrilled for you. And I am a huge fan of Chump Lady.


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## OutofRetirement

manowar said:


> 36 exes. Still in contact.


Is that true? 36 still in contact?


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## Thumos

Redpill stuff has some truths but also nonsense. People aren’t binary biological robots with no free will being yanked around by evolutionary puppet strings. You’re better off reading The Way of the Superior Man.


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## oldshirt

OutofRetirement said:


> I'm sorry this is the way it turned out, but from what I could see, this is absolutely needed FOR HER as well as for you. With this, she may change. Without it, I don't believe she would change, as I posted a minute ago, she said she'd stop, then did it the next day.


I agree with this. 

Even though the OP seems to have grown a spine and is standing up for his best interests now, His basic nature seems to be that of a caretaker and rescuer and would likely be an enabler if they remain together. 

The chances are if she remained with an enabler she would continue to drink and engage in irresponsible and risky behavior.

Now with him out of the way, she may very well turn into the town lush.

But a divorce and the OP not continuing to give her chance after chance, may be the impetus and motivation she needs to get herself cleaned up.


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## manowar

Thumos said:


> Redpill stuff has some truths but also nonsense.



Are you familiar with the basic red pill principles? I'm assuming you are. And that you are not just a casual observer who rejects it outright because you find it distasteful. I bet you didnt read the Rational male because you are the know-it-all THumos the Internet POSTER.

The Nice Guy [NG] in this thread is a prime example. He thought this girl would change because she was now married. He had no frame. He wasn't centered. He let her disrupt his equilibrium. Everything was about pleasing her. he said he drank. I bet he drank because she did. He entered her frame and took up her hobby. Bet anything this guy was not a heavy drinker before this girl. He allowed his wife to lead the relationship. He says he did everything for her. He became her dancing monkey trying to please her. I wonder if he did a few cartwheels too. He is a classic beta pleaser and got destroyed by his princess. Should he go through life being a little ***** who gets taken advantage of. Im saying if he knew better, he would have handled this relationship like a man. Like a leader. He would have never married her truthfully. . Im writing this because I hope this guy follows my advice and smartens up. For him there is hope. People like him need to understand basic female behavior which is driven by female nature. For the BH on SI, many are lost causes and nothing will help those doormats.

I don't disagree with the above statement. Some of it is a bit over the top, but not the core central beliefs. Hypergamy. Alphafucks, Beta bucks. Male nature demands loyalty in marriage. Do you also deny male nature? this is why men agreed to monogamy in the first place. Sorry to bust one of your fundamental beliefs but monogamy is not the default human behavior. It was actually a social construct imposed by the ancients to temper female hypergamy. Hypergamy had been bottled up for 1700 years or so before being uncorked by the secular religion we have today. Roman Catholicism was well aware of female nature as well and stressed marriage and harsh penalties for divorce. No-Fault divorce did away with all of that. No-fault divorce is a huge incentive for men not to marry. yet at SI you see those idiots ready to find a new sweetheart who will give them the love and understanding they deserve. You can't make this **** up.

If you had a greater understanding of female nature would you have behaved differently during dating, marriage, and discovering your wife's cheating? The cheating by the way sucks and must have done a number on you. Anyway moving on. I've read your posts. How can I not? They are everywhere. Posting seems to be a part-time job of yours. You're the resident expert. You never bring up understanding female nature to those weak guys at SI who believe the blue pill narrative fed to them from birth? We know for a fact that it is a lie. At SI you and the rest give the same advice to those confused nice guys. Why not tell them the truth that they have failed miserably in their leadership role and have become emotional tampons for their wives. Their wives are not attracted to the betas that they married. many wives never were from the get-go. the wives don't even know why they do it but are driven to seek somebody fitting. translation. Masculine.To find a real man. In reality, they often end up with another beta. Its nothing more than a lateral move. 

Do you believe the romantic comedy is an accurate depiction of male-female relations? Or the hallmark movie. Maybe you do. Perhaps the truth is too much for you. You're unwilling to bust those cherished beliefs of yours. I recall you saying someplace that your wife was your first so maybe you have limited experience in the dating world and limited experience with women. I don't. I'm an empiricist when it comes to this. I saw and continue to see these same behaviors exhibited by women. You come across as an engineer. Do you deny that female nature is misunderstood by these men (especially the beta doormats on SI who get bulldozed by their cheating wives)? One guy over there allowed his wife to date on weekends. those men are scared little beta men who were the second choice safe bet. Thumos Were you the second choice while your ex pined over her lost alphas? Does that scare you. Hard to believe women think like this isn't it. Hallmark doesnt have the NG trope where the lady marries her second choice for saftey does it.? What about hypergamy. This red pill ****, I'll call it a template, explained my experiences to a T. When I examined my relationships, going back to when I was 18, I'm 54 now, was impossible to deny. I saw it over and over again.

You see the same claims made by the BH: We're best friends. She said she loved me. I didn't see it coming. I gave her presents and paid undue attention to my princess. I treated her like a queen. We're soulmates. How can she do this to me. She's a different person. I don't know her anymore.

To deny reality is foolish. Again Im not writing this for you. I dont care what you think. Im writing this for this young guy who is in his prime, who is living in a fantasy and needs to cut the cord. I wish someone gave me the redpill when I was in my twenties. I really do.


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## Thumos

manowar said:


> Are you familiar with the basic red pill principles? I'm assuming you are. And that you are not just a casual observer who rejects it outright because you find it distasteful. I bet you didnt read the Rational male because you are the know-it-all THumos the Internet POSTER.


Yes I am.
No I didn’t reject it outright. I said it contained truths but also nonsense.
I said that red pill can drift into a simplistic treatment of humans as binary evo psych robots, as if the urge to hypergamy is inevitable and AWALT.
Yes I’ve read the Rational Male.
And yes I’ve brought up red pill concepts on SI before.
We’ve also recommend he read No Mr Nice Guy
Other than that I’m not sure why you felt the need for ad hominem attacks.


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## Thumos

manowar said:


> Thumos Were you the second choice while your ex pined over her lost alphas?


It’s not scary to think about. It’s certainly possible but not probable. There’s a difference.


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## Thumos

manowar said:


> You see the same claims made by the BH: We're best friends. She said she loved me. I didn't see it coming. I gave her presents and paid undue attention to my princess. I treated her like a queen. We're soulmates. How can she do this to me. She's a different person. I don't know her anymore.


You also see the same claims made by betrayed wives. Just reverse the gender references and the same sentiment is expressed by betrayed women. 

Unfaithful men also engage in all of the same unethical, cruel, gaslighting behaviors.


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## Thumos

manowar said:


> Do you believe the romantic comedy is an accurate depiction of male-female relations? Or the hallmark movie. Maybe you do. Perhaps the truth is too much for you. You're unwilling to bust those cherished beliefs of yours.


This is projection and also silly. I don’t know anyone who believes in fairy tales or rom com narratives, or ever did. I’ve always had a pragmatic view of the world and my WW knows it. She’s also keenly aware that many women find me attractive and I find them equally attractive. The coaching most of us have focused on with OP is that there are dozens of women in his own geography that are highly compatible with him and that his STBXWW is nothing special and in fact less than these women.


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## Thumos

manowar said:


> He thought this girl would change because she was now married. He had no frame. He wasn't centered. He let her disrupt his equilibrium. Everything was about pleasing her. he said he drank. I bet he drank because she did. He entered her frame and took up her hobby. Bet anything this guy was not a heavy drinker before this girl. He allowed his wife to lead the relationship. He says he did everything for her. He became her dancing monkey trying to please her. I wonder if he did a few cartwheels too.


All true as the OP has already recognized


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## Thumos

manowar said:


> The cheating by the way sucks and must have done a number on you.


Indeed, and that’s what drives me to post. I want (mostly) to help betrayed men get out of bad situations. And that’s how my advice is geared.


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## manowar

Thumos said:


> All true as the OP has already recognized


what I'm getting at is that if he understood female nature he would have avoided this kind of pleasing behavior. the move is to bring the girl into the man's frame not catering to her every whim and desire. This sort of behavior lowers the woman's attraction toward the man. Doesn't guarantee that it will work because it depends on her attraction level. the guy in this tread seems like the perfect candidate to get burned again. I'm trying to show him some light. The why. Not 20 steps after she cheated.If this helps one guy its worth it for me to try. I know a lot of guys simply refuse to accept it. I think it comes down to those fundamental beliefs that all other beliefs are built upon. The beliefs that stand alone without proof. they are accepted without demonstration. Aristotle called them first principles. Cherished beliefs are too tough to crack. Safer to stick to the old ones.

He did it because he thought this is what a guy is supposed to do, which of course is the blue pill conditioning Disney narrative. Be the knight in shining armor for m'lady. I believed this nonsense myself until I actually dealt with enough women to figure something was amiss. this is the philosophical problem of belief vs. reality dealing with intersexual relations. [Kant's transcendental idealism] . Does the world outside our mind (nature) match up to our perception of it?

Only by dealing with women and witnessing what they do can you actually see it in real-time. when I hit my thirties, I was, fortunately, able to dodge some bullets. I have an interesting story of a similar type of knockout party girl that I dated in my 20s (without the drinking issue) who had the naive me completely baffled by her behavior. I handled it much differently than this man. Fortunately, I wasn't an NG. The thing is this girl I dated several years off and on fits the RPill template exactly. No deviation. Nothing unique about her. Just super pretty. At the time I thought she was a unique creature that no man could figure out. Looking back this is ridiculous.

We were all raised on this blue pill narrative which is simply false. Women don't want this crap. There is a dualism at play. the hot guy for fun and sex and the serious guy to take care of her. She'd like to find both in one guy. this is where the red pill comes in. its informs these guys about female psychology. Unfortunately, nice guys think women are something that they are not. this is the reason these nice guys are wrecked when their 'best friend, soulmate' wanders. Good girl/Bad girl. We've been fed this false narrative by mainstream media, religion, and society in general. There is a reason that they do this. It benefits society to get these girls married. girls like the one this guy married. Someone needs to support these women. Better this dude than the state. its the beta guy in waiting who gets the honor. The beta chump who is in his 30s doing well. these girls are now willing to marry a beta for support and financial comfort. Often it's not about love. its often about opportunity. She 'had her fun when she was in her twenties and didn't want anything to do with these nice guys but when she gets older and has her epiphany, 30s+, she's now willing to give the nice guy his opportunity. these are attractive women who are aging. The nice guy thinks -- see I won m'lady after all. My patience has paid off. I knew she'd love me. She sees that I'm perfect for her. I'm set. marriage binds us forever. we'll live happily ever after. To the detriment of the NG, he's often viewed as boring.

this is the basic dynamic that is at work, that the NG doesn't understand. RP clarifies this dynamic. I'm not talking about MGTOW, or the other sub groups. Just basic underlying innate behaviors that are there for females. we have our own. One is Loyalty. that's why the male is annihilated when he discovers another man was sexual with his princess. The man can't get past this. many women indeed suppress the hypergamy urge and make terrific wonderful wives who never wander. Religion shut this down. So did society where the woman was financially dependant on the man. The 1950s worldview is the one which NGs have. Its also one that many recently divorced men have who are quick to remarry. In our modern world, the bottle has been uncorked and female hypergamy has been set free. There isn't anything to suppress hypergamy. No-Fault Divorce encourages it.

The guys at SI - and I've read a bunch of threads - do not understand this. Not one poster has explained this to them. This stuff is completely alien over there.


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## Divinely Favored

My wife will tell you not to go by what women say as they are ruled by emotion. She would tell me not to change to suit her because of this reason. I have to remain stedfast and not be swayed by her emotional state at the moment.

She told me that i have to be the stationary lighthouse in the her storm as she regains her bearings according to my actions. If i change to suit her then we are both lost. 

She is red pill and hates working with women. Said she would rather deal with a bunch of sweaty stinking welders than work in office with women. She says the men want to get the job done and go home like her. All those office women want to chit chat and gossip about everything and get little work completed.


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## Thumos

manowar said:


> I handled it much differently than this man.


OP has handled this pretty well. He dropped her like a hot rock, ghosted her and moved on. if he reads Way of the Superior Man and No More Mr Nice Guy, he’ll mostly get what you want but without the excesses of redpill dogma treating everyone as if they are preprogrammed evolutionary robots who don’t have free wills or souls.

I agree with you that men like me have an “old fashioned” view of the world and that we expected others to abide by our traditionalism. That’s not the same as being beta. One of the alpha types is the traditionalist who gives loyalty and expects the same and puts a premium on traditional virtues such as honor, “the moral law” and family. Once broken, this type does not go back. But also wants to make his children are taken care of. This is me.

this is kind of a thread jack tho. The OP has already cut the dysfunctional woman out of his life and is working on himself.


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## Tempocontour

I hope everything is ok with you.


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## Shkb

I’m doing good. I’ve maintained my distance but over email have agreed to pay a lump sum for alimony..I want the pets to be ok and for her to maintain her housing.

I’ve been reconnecting with myself and with old friends, going out shooting pool and throwing darts and drinking a few beers a couple nights a week which has been good for me. I also got a bunch of weightlifting equipment and a punching bag ha so set up a gym in my basement, and been riding my bike and throwing a baseball with my brother. I’ve been taking care of myself physically honestly a heck of a lot better than when we were together.

I’m feeling a little emotionally numb and kind of out of touch and uncomfortable in my own skin too, guess that’s to be expected getting used to being on my own. But I’m just focusing on staying busy, eating healthy. Maybe I’m bottling things up, I’m trying not to think about the past too much..definitely am letting some anger out in my workouts but also having bouts of extreme laziness, not really depression just aimlessness, finding distractions and surfing the net, but I’m figuring that’s part of the process and I’m trying to let myself off the hook


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## Lostinthought61

I am glad you are doing okay, and that you are on the road to becoming your old self. She really has the gaul to ask for alimony you were only married for 3 years? Besides she was working while married with you how is she entitled to any alimony ?


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## Evinrude58

I hope you have good attorney, and I hope you don’t roll over and concede here every request.


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## Tempocontour

I'm sure what you paid in alimony is well worth it. Now you don't have to worry about her. Keep moving forward, keep taking care of yourself.


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## sokillme

Shkb said:


> I’m doing good. I’ve maintained my distance but over email have agreed to pay a lump sum for alimony..I want the pets to be ok and for her to maintain her housing.
> 
> I’ve been reconnecting with myself and with old friends, going out shooting pool and throwing darts and drinking a few beers a couple nights a week which has been good for me. I also got a bunch of weightlifting equipment and a punching bag ha so set up a gym in my basement, and been riding my bike and throwing a baseball with my brother. I’ve been taking care of myself physically honestly a heck of a lot better than when we were together.
> 
> I’m feeling a little emotionally numb and kind of out of touch and uncomfortable in my own skin too, guess that’s to be expected getting used to being on my own. But I’m just focusing on staying busy, eating healthy. Maybe I’m bottling things up, I’m trying not to think about the past too much..definitely am letting some anger out in my workouts but also having bouts of extreme laziness, not really depression just aimlessness, finding distractions and surfing the net, but I’m figuring that’s part of the process and I’m trying to let myself off the hook


Why would you pay her alimony? When someone spits in your face you don't give them money for it. 

Dude you better toughen up or it will happen to you again. Nice guys get taken advantage of. 

Don't be a nice guy be a good man. Paying alimony in this situation is not what a good man does.


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## Shkb

sokillme said:


> Don't be a nice guy be a good man. Paying alimony in this situation is not what a good man does.


Hmm yeah I wouldn’t have been so quick to acquiesce if it wasn’t for the pets. She said she’s broke and needs help, I offered her a number and she accepted, so it’s all good, I still have plenty. I guess it was the right number to soothe my conscience too, I loved that dog, we got her together as a puppy, and I want them all to be ok. I’m not vindictive, past that now. Just trying to move on


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Better get closure in writing, through a lawyer 

Otherwise I forecast she'll want to return to the well when her present bucket of money from you is empty. 

Count on that. 

Good job !


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## bandit.45

Get a lawyer to set a fixed amount or she will screw you. Give her an inch and she will take a mile.


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## manowar

sokillme said:


> Dude you better toughen up or it will happen to you again. Nice guys get taken advantage of.
> 
> Don't be a nice guy be a good man. Paying alimony in this situation is not what a good man does.


what i've come to realize by reading these threads is that many guys just dont have it in them. they are wired a certain way. nothing you can do for them. some guys are simply meant to be run over; its their place in life. that's the way it is.


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## Shkb

manowar said:


> what i've come to realize by reading these threads is that many guys just dont have it in them. they are wired a certain way. nothing you can do for them. some guys are simply meant to be run over; its their place in life. that's the way it is.


Hmm yeah and seems like you're wired to respond to everything with the same black and white alpha/beta red pill/blue pill stuff. I think human beings and relationships are a little more complicated and nuanced than all that. How can you paint every situation with the same brush? I bounced the second I found out about the cheating, I left her and her whole family and our whole life behind in order to take care of myself, you think that's a decision a weak man makes? Maybe I shouldn't have gotten married to her in the first place or something, but I don't beat myself up for believing in love and chasing a dream, things just don't work out the way you hope or plan sometimes, lessons learned. I'm working on me now, I'm proud of my actions and I feel strong.

She obviously has problems and addictions, and now that it's over it seems she's starting to sort them out, and I hope she does. I've known her my whole life, I want the pets to be ok, what's a little bit of money matter, for the peace of mind. I don't think that makes me beta or hopeless, it just feels like the right thing to do right now, and will help me put this all in the past. I hammered out the agreement with my lawyer and it includes the right wording so that she can't ask me for more down the road, this is it.


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## bandit.45

The money you gave her is money well spent to cut a cancer out of your life and make sure she never returns. You did good. Don't let people here get you down.


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## QuietRiot

Shkb said:


> Hmm yeah and seems like you're wired to respond to everything with the same black and white alpha/beta red pill/blue pill stuff. I think human beings and relationships are a little more complicated and nuanced than all that. How can you paint every situation with the same brush? I bounced the second I found out about the cheating, I left her and her whole family and our whole life behind in order to take care of myself, you think that's a decision a weak man makes? Maybe I shouldn't have gotten married to her in the first place or something, but I don't beat myself up for believing in love and chasing a dream, things just don't work out the way you hope or plan sometimes, lessons learned. I'm working on me now, I'm proud of my actions and I feel strong.
> 
> She obviously has problems and addictions, and now that it's over it seems she's starting to sort them out, and I hope she does. I've known her my whole life, I want the pets to be ok, what's a little bit of money matter, for the peace of mind. I don't think that makes me beta or hopeless, it just feels like the right thing to do right now, and will help me put this all in the past. I hammered out the agreement with my lawyer and it includes the right wording so that she can't ask me for more down the road, this is it.


I am still proud of you! You stood up for yourself and are still a good guy. I think you have great things ahead. How are you in your new life???


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## manowar

Unfortunately, a lot of intersexual relationships follow that red/blue pill template. Its the way of the jungle.



Shkb said:


> I've known her my whole life


So what she treated you like a chump.


Shkb said:


> I want the pets to be ok, what's a little bit of money matter, for the peace of mind.


 i don't blame you. i would have just taken the pets. Drive over there and take them. Take ownership of what you want.



Shkb said:


> She said she’s broke and needs help, I offered her a number and she accepted,


You could have told her to hit up the 30 ex-boyfriends she had on speed dial for some cash while you were married to her. You still have work to do friend.



Shkb said:


> I'm working on me now, I'm proud of my actions and I feel strong.


that's good. keep pushing in that direction. Get tougher. you can do it. stop the support. she aint your problem. she knew you her whole life too. I hope you learned something and are able to rewire your thinking . I'm not trying to be an asshole to pile on. You seem like a decent guy who had good intentions. I hope things work out for you.


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## Evinrude58

Hope your financial stuff with her is all recorded legally. If not, she will get a lawyer and rape you financially if she can.
Never continue to be naive as far as what your ex is capable of.


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