# Would like some perspective



## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi there,

I'm new here and am glad to have found this forum.

I'm here because I don't know if I put up with behavior that is unacceptable or if I'm being too sensitive. I am definitely a sensitive person.

I've been married eight years and have no children. My husband is a very bright guy with a lot of energy. He's one of those guys who decides to do something and does it quite well. He's an engineer and not much of a people person though. He kind of makes me look lazy, although nobody who knows me would ever say that about me.

The issue I have is that he has this button around being told what to do. I feel pretty certain that I'm not the least bit bossy. I'm sure there are times when I try to control certain things. If anything, though, I need to be more assertive about what I need/want. Again, other people wouldn't say that I'm not assertive, but in a relationship I tend to get a little lost (I had a controlling father who believed respect was fear). 

Here's a typical pattern in my marriage. Last night my hubby was about to make something in the kitchen. I reminded him that there was some already made up in the freezer. I didn't really care very much, but sometimes we like to use what's in the freezer to make space. He responded with a very harsh tone something like, "yeah, I know!" and said something else. (It is never _what_ he says, but _how_ he says it.) I was heading out the door to walk the dog, so I just went and walked the dog and cried.

When he snaps at me like this I get very deeply hurt. My heart breaks a little. I'm not sure if it breaks because I'm married to someone who would talk to me like that (I would be embarrassed if someone heard him speak to me like that), or if I'm mad at myself for marrying him in the first place. I think it is a little of both.

See, one day, before we were married we were leaving his parents house. As we were leaving, I had this realization that I should end the relationship. I saw the way he talked to his mother and I could see the anger and resentment (he was snappy with her) and I knew that our relationship was going to be very difficult for me. His mother was very controlling and not a compassionate person at all. She was very selfish. She did things like make his clothing (can you say outcast?), but bought herself expensive kitchen appliances. I didn't even know there were moms out there like that.

My family dynamics were the opposite. My mother would give us the shirt off her back, she was so kind and loving to every one of us (seven kids). But, my father was strict and controlling of my mother, and he did things that he wanted. So, our relationship issues really get influenced by these dynamics.

Obviously, I didn't end the relationship. I couldn't bring myself to hurt him. I was in love too, of course, and romanticizing and probably thinking how I was going to save him from his mother, or whatever, and we all know how that goes. Last night I thought about all this and felt like at that point I put myself and my needs last and never went back and picked them up. I often feel like I just don't get what I want and end up not taking care of myself. He is quite oppositional. Like, if I ask him for help I have to do it very carefully.

Back to the issue at hand. He likes to talk things out (I will say that he's good about that), but I'm a "distancer" and I need some time and space to recover, think and process. He's afraid I'm brooding and making things worse. I definitely used to do that, but I've learned to just give myself some space and do something like listen to music and let myself cry if I need to, and get in touch with what I'm feeling.

When we did talk about an hour after the incident, he acknowledged that I pushed a button of his and he's not in touch with exactly what it is, and acknowledged his issues with his controlling mother. He also said he knew I was going to say what I said (I'd reminded him before about the stuff in the freezer) and the anticipation of me saying it was building. He said he wanted to use up something on the shelf, which was fine too. I just didn't know that. I think compared to him I'm pretty laid back. So, sometimes I try to stay on things around the house so that I'm not being a slacker or anything.

When we were talking about this issue recently (it is a clear pattern in our relationship), he said that my sensitivity is draining for him. I have gotten so much better at dealing with him, but he said he doesn't know what's going to set me off (as in hurt me). Funny, b/c I feel the same way about him. While we were talking, tough, I realized and shared that I have to protect myself and the relationship because I know myself well, and I know that if he does it just one too many times, that will be it for me. I know that I can be very patient, but there could come a point where my feelings for him will just shut down and there will be no going back.

I can't change him, how he responds to me. All I can change is my response to his snapping. But, am I being unreasonable to not want to be snapped at?

Thanks!
Kerry


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

As I see it you are both dealing with the same person and behaviors you married. He is controlling in his own way. You are insecure in some respects.



Kerry said:


> He kind of makes me look lazy, although nobody who knows me would ever say that about me.


This appears to be your own perception of yourself not his. Nor anyone else’s. You are in a position that many here would envy. A spouse who will communicate with you. You are also lucky in that you both understand the dynamics of your relationship. His controlling mother and your sensitivity and need for some space. My guess is that he has the kind of personality that once he sees a problem, he addresses it immediately then moves on. Because your styles are so different is a challenge but with the right understanding of each other this can be a positive in your relationship. 

A part of your post struck me.



Kerry said:


> While we were talking, tough, I realized and shared that I have to protect myself and the relationship because I know myself well, and I know that if he does it just one too many times, that will be it for me.


Why do you feel a need to protect yourself? What do you fear? It sounds as if the primary problem is that you both understand each other and should be able to communicate bur are missing that link. The other thought is that there is some other underlying problem that is not being addressed so he “snaps” at you. This is very common and can also be addressed with communications. Please tell us more.


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## Parallax (Dec 10, 2008)

Your situation sounds a lot like mine in terms of how we handle problems: I'm the one who wants to talk things out right away, and my wife usually needs some time to sort things out on her own before she's ready to talk.

The pattern is: I notice that something's wrong. The goal-oriented part of my male brain says "Hey, there's a problem here, let's get this taken care of so we can go back to being happy." So I'll try to talk to her about it, even if she's not ready, because I can't understand the point of waiting. This naturally just makes her more upset and we end up in a much worse fight than we needed to.

I've started learning to give her more space when she's upset. It's still hard for me and feels unnatural sometimes, but it has helped a few times and I'm working on it.

Not sure how much help I can be with the snapping thing, as I'm just the opposite and tend to bottle things up when someone pushes one of my buttons. It's not necessarily a better approach.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

wow your H sounds just like mine. snapping, rude to his mother, engineer. We went through a lot of the same problems. your H feels you are impeding on his boundaries. its not a question of should he/shouldnt he, its a question of how its making him feel, how its making you feel, and what you can do to feel the way you both want. 

Doing boundary books has really helped my H and I. i did it on my own at first, and then we started doing them together. Its a good way to talk about resentment, frustrations, in a constructive way where you're both on the same page, realizing you both want the same things.


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

Thanks to all for your kind words and perspective. I appreciate the support.

I really want to work out any of my crap, so I'm going to do my best to be very very honest with myself (and you guys, of course).

I want to convey that I realize how fortunate I am to have such a great husband. We have a very strong intellectual connection, which is what tends to attract me to people. I so that, but never realized it until him.

Amp, I love your questions. They make me want to sit down and list out my fears, look at them and conquer them (which I shall do later on my own). So, what am I afraid of? I was married once before and my ex was a pathological liar. The thing is, I didn't even notice until almost a year into the marriage. How could I miss this? I'm sure it happens to many people. I think my biggest fear related to this dynamic in my marriage is that I've made a mistake and I'm taking crap from someone when I shouldn't. I'm afraid I'm being blind maybe? Or one of those people who just takes it lying down?

Again, my mom was very passive with my dad, and I always swore I'd never be like her. I never even wanted to get married and prepared myself most of my life to not have children. So, my aversion to marriage was strong.

As I said, I'll dive into my fears a little more deeply later in my journal and report back any new findings. 

I'm definitely insecure. Not in a meek way, but in a perfectionist kind of way. Nothing is ever good enough. I'm really hard on myself. I'm often paralyzed to start soemthing for fear of not doing it perfectly. Please don't be misled into thinking that my house is in perfect order and spotless. I'm not one of those types. I'm a poet at heart and a bit artsy type (who's worked in the business world for a long time).

My hubby is similar as far as perfectionist, but he definitely faces his fear and tackles projects a little more confidently than I do. He is also very hard on himself when he doesn't get things right the first time.

I think when my hubby snaps at me, it also could be one more straw on the camel who's already loaded up her own back?

Parallax, thanks for your perspective. I'm glad you shared it b/c it practically makes me appreciate his snapping. I don't think I'd like it any better if he bottled it up!

Ljtseng, I don't know what a boundary book is, but I'm going to go find out. I'm glad you're here. Sounds like we have some things in common!

Thanks so much. I will be back later

Kerry


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi Amp,

I'm going to quote some comments of yours and mine in this post to keep things clear. Your observations are very astute.

You said: >>>As I see it you are both dealing with the same person and behaviors you married. He is controlling in his own way. You are insecure in some respects.<<<

That is correct. I'll add that I can also attempt to be controlling, but I think he has better boundaries than I do. He is already very controlled (that is almost part of his nature), so he's not going to let me do that (rightfully so). And, because I'm insecure (and very sensitive and intuitive) I can let myself be controlled, even if he's not trying. I'm aware of this, so that's the first step.

I said: <<He kind of makes me look lazy, although nobody who knows me would ever say that about me.>>
You replied: >>This appears to be your own perception of yourself not his<<

You're absolutely correct. The interesting thing is that I am sure that I get much less sleep than my husband. I am often very tired, which affects my ability to focus on the things that I would like to. I think this is a bit situational, as I am taking care of my sweet, elderly German Shepherd right now and my sleep is interrupted every single night. I'm neither complaining nor excusing (because the issues are still very real), just realized recently how much the interrupted sleep is probably a factor in my ability to focus.

I do need to stop comparing myself to him though. I definitely have boundary issues to address. It is helpful that ljtseng pointed that out.

<<<You are in a position that many here would envy. >>>

You are absolutely correct again. Really, we are incredibly fortunate to have found each other. When I take the time to communicate to him in a logical manner (his language) things are pretty smooth sailing. He can understand even my deepest feelings even though he can't relate to them (man thing). It is all in how I present it though.

You asked: <<<Why do you feel a need to protect yourself?>>>

Really, it wasn't so much that I had to protect myself (sorry that I didn't word that very well), but where I said I had to protect the relationship. What made me realize that is thinking about my personality and my history. What happens for me is that I stay "tolerant" (aka don't address things or state my own needs or sometimes just don't recognize a disfunction), but one thing happens to break the camel's back and there's just no turning back for me. Like, the waters have become toxic and I simply have to swim away. So what I meant by that is if I just tolerate the snapping, then one day he's going to snap and it is just going to be the last time I'm willing to take it. I push back at him on the snapping and call him on it. That's where we get stuck b/c I think he believes I'm just being sensitive (though he will admit that his own button got pushed). So, that's why I push back so that I don't take it one too many times and risk losing my feelings for him. That's what I'm protecting.

Now, I'm just explaining that, while fulling understanding that the snapping is his response and all I can change is the way I communicate and the way I respond to him (snapping or not). The snapping really is his issue, not mine.

We are both quite capable of communicating clearly, but our brains work very differently. He's all logic, with an appreciation and understanding of my artistic brain. I'm all visual, with an appreciation and understanding of logic. Sometimes I find it takes a lot of energy to think through everything I say so that it is well presented in a manner that his logic-based brain will understand (I'm sure this is a typical male-female issue). But, mostly I think it is an excellent practice to do that anyway, and that I should do in most situations. I am capable of doing that, but sometimes just rush through things

You also asked: <<<What do you fear?>>>

This is such a great question and I did a great little practice as a result where I just sat down and thought about all my fears. I realized the answer in the context of the issue in this post is right in my original post where I said: >>>I don't know if I put up with behavior that is unacceptable or if I'm being too sensitive.<<<

That's my fear. That I'm putting up with something that I should not. I believe I already know the answer to that (it is in this very post), but that is the fear that drove me to post here.

I love that you called this out. It really distills things down.

I'm interested in doing some boundary exercises. I don't know that I want to read numerous books on the topic, but I did find one that resonated with me called, "Boundary Power." My ultimate would be to find a website that has some exercises. I've not found one yet (trying to keep life simple).

I'm interested in any additional feedback. 

Thanks!
Kerry


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Well this appears to boil down to two issues. Snapping and pushing buttons. Not an uncommon problem in relationships. Again I applaud the two of you as you both seem to have a firm grasp on the dynamics of this.



Kerry said:


> I'll add that I can also attempt to be controlling, but I think he has better boundaries than I do. He is already very controlled (that is almost part of his nature), so he's not going to let me do that (rightfully so). And, because I'm insecure (and very sensitive and intuitive) I can let myself be controlled, even if he's not trying. I'm aware of this, so that's the first step.


In the context of the leftovers in the freezer and the reminder from you this reads two ways to me. If he initially reacted that you were being controlling in letting him know there was something already prepared then that’s over the top, but likely it was the second reference that set him off as he was waiting for it. As you inferred he felt you were going to remind him and so he was probably irritated before you even said anything. Look at it this way, you told him there were leftovers, he made a decision to do something else, you reminded him again. Now you stated you didn’t care one way or the other, but obviously you did in his mind. What kind of relationship does this remind him of? A parental one. Do this, no, I’m going to do this. Do this. We can really draw the parallels here with the symbolic frugal overtones of this and his mother. Makes his clothes to save money = use what’s in the freezer. The questions I have here are: 1. Were you trying to be controlling in your own way? 2. Did you know you were “pushing his button” with the second reminder. 3. He seemed to know you were going to tell him again, is this a pattern?



Kerry said:


> The interesting thing is that I am sure that I get much less sleep than my husband. I am often very tired, which affects my ability to focus on the things that I would like to. I think this is a bit situational, as I am taking care of my sweet, elderly German Shepherd right now and my sleep is interrupted every single night. I'm neither complaining nor excusing (because the issues are still very real), just realized recently how much the interrupted sleep is probably a factor in my ability to focus.


Sorry to hear your dog is ailing but get some sleep. Make time for it. Ask your husband to help you with getting it. 



Kerry said:


> What happens for me is that I stay "tolerant" (aka don't address things or state my own needs or sometimes just don't recognize a disfunction), but one thing happens to break the camel's back and there's just no turning back for me. Like, the waters have become toxic and I simply have to swim away. So what I meant by that is if I just tolerate the snapping, then one day he's going to snap and it is just going to be the last time I'm willing to take it. I push back at him on the snapping and call him on it. That's where we get stuck b/c I think he believes I'm just being sensitive (though he will admit that his own button got pushed). So, that's why I push back so that I don't take it one too many times and risk losing my feelings for him. That's what I'm protecting.


Again, button pushing and snapping. This appears to be the load on the camel’s back. If you can understand what pushes his buttons the conflict can be avoided. I’m not suggesting you walk on eggshells as that will just continue to build stress and resentment. But if we go back to the leftovers, why the second reminder. It didn’t need to be said. That’s not walking on eggshells it’s just logical. You have a great understanding of the conflict issues here. I would recommend that the two of you, when not in conflict, analyze a situations like the leftovers to understand why he snapped and why you pushed his button. (Intentionally or not). Use the empathy technique in the conversations. “So if I understand you correctly when I do X you feel Y”

Just because you are opposites in logic/artistic aspects doesn’t mean you can’t have empathy towards each others needs. Understanding each others boundaries/needs is half the battle.

I love your perspective that what you are trying to protect is the relationship. It is not only very astute of you but very selfless. He’s lucky to have a wife that sees it in this manner. 

Good luck.


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## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

You are not unreasonable at all. Its good that he talks things out, and you will have to work a bit to also do the same. But don't let him get away with saying "you're just too sensitive". Taking this situation for example how about saying something like "It hurts me when you talk to me like you did and I don't like how it makes me feel. How can you know what I'm going to say? Is it anticipating what you think I might say that irritates you? That seems unfair to me. I wasn't telling you what to do, I just didn't know that you knew we had more in the freezer." You have to take particular situations to point out unacceptable behaviors. Try to start with I..."I feel" etc. "You" is confrontational and blaming. Reciprocrate by really listening to him. If he gets disrespectful while you talk it out, tell him that you will be happy to listen to him but right now he's being disrespectful and hurtful. 

Its no excuse that his childhood role models spoke to each other like this, he still needs to learn to be respectful. If its not something you two can work out then I would highly recommend counseling to you. Also you should check out Mort Fertel's website, see if you can convince him to do one of the boot camps with you.


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi Amp,

Thanks for your kind words about my doggie.

You have excellent points once again. I'll address those and then I want to go deeper on the issues that drove me to this board.

YOU ASKED:
1. Were you trying to be controlling in your own way?
I did "want" something (clear out the freezer a bit), but I didn't mind at all if he didn't do it. Especially knowing (later) that he wanted to use up something on the shelf.

2. Did you know you were “pushing his button” with the second reminder.
As I mentioned before, if I had taken more time to think about it, I might have realized this was a button pusher. I might have not said anything, or worded it differently. I was doing my own thing, so didn't take time. It didn't seem big enough to analyze in depth like that, but maybe every word should be minded? I'm not being glib here. This could be a good practice.

3. He seemed to know you were going to tell him again, is this a pattern?
Absolutely. He's an introvert. . .constantly watching, figuring out, anticipating. I do notice that he sometimes (maybe even often) makes assumptions.

He seems to take things on as if he "has" to do them. And, if he resists it is like a little boy rebelling (when he doesn't snap). Like he probably felt as if he had to use the leftovers, but also had to snap to get his way of not using them. It is as if it isn't okay to simply say "no thanks." I imagine this is a result of many years of doing as his mother told him (I'm always surprised he didn't rebel more). Of course, my textbook father issues get triggered and I retreat (my father was controlling and believed that respect was fear). So, I have learned to say something like, "just fyi and you don't have to do this, but . . ." Or, if he snaps, I sometimes say, "a simple 'no thank' you would have worked too." (When I can rise above my own hurt.) And, sometimes I snap back (just so you know I'm not perfect. 

Okay, but here's the deal. I'd like to be careful about getting lost in picking apart his issues. I can only change myself. Also, sometimes I will convey that I get it, and I truly do. But, I am not applying what I need to apply and I need help with that. I am not good at asking for help. So, I'm asking for help with applying what I see here, and some perspective to point out anything I'm not seeing.

So, let's go deeper on my own stuff. First, I've gotta admit that it is a bit like driving in the UK when you're from the US. You just keep wanting to go to that side of the road that is comfortable for you. It feels easier to pick at his issues than to face my own and change myself! 

I came here and asked for perspective on whether I should tolerate a particular behavior. I'm not using my internal "governor" that tells me in a timely manner what feels fair or unfair. It takes me a while to get in touch with my feelings. And, as I said about protecting myself, I tolerate and tolerate and then one day wake up and realize I've been tolerating too much for too long and that is not good.

So, the solution seems to be that I get more in touch with my feelings. (I have learned to ask for time to do so.) And then, I need to speak my mind and be open, but also stand my ground when appropriate. Otherwise, I'll have to come to this board for every little issue for perspective.

I do think that better boundaries would help me with this issue. I tend to focus on pleasing the other person or delivering the "me" that I think they need me to be. So, if I can resist doing that it might free up space for me to feel and think more clearly and maybe even shorten the time it takes to get in touch with my feelings.

Do you know of any websites that have some boundary exercises? I've done some searching, but have not yet turned up anything. 

I am a bit "filled up" on self-help books, so I don't want to buy one b/c I *think* it will help. I want to be sure I'm going down the right road. I do realize I might have to explore before I find the right path for me, but I need to be efficient b/c we're about to get super busy again. I notice a lot of boundary books are Christian-based. I'm not Christian, but I can ignore small amounts of such reference.

Interested in any thoughts, boundary websites, or new perspectives.

Thanks!
Kerry


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Kerry said:


> Do you know of any websites that have some boundary exercises? I've done some searching, but have not yet turned up anything.


These are the sites I have used in the past: 

Setting Personal Boundaries - protecting self

http://www.mudrashram.com/dysfunctionalfamily2.html
There's an exercise towards the end of the page that was very helpful for me.

Also, i know you said you were all filled up on self help books, but i read a really good book over the holidays called _The Anatomy of Peace_ Amazon.com: The Anatomy of Peace: Resolving the Heart of Conflict: The Arbinger Institute: Books

I liked this book b/c he talks about going to war with a heart at peace, and i very much feel that marriage is the art of war.  You'll learn what "box" you're in, and how that is hindering peace in your own heart. I like the approach the book takes b/c it focuses on building a relationship with a strong foundation of friendship, and then working one's way up to correcting unwanted behaviors.


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi ltjseng,

Thanks for the websites and book suggestion. That book does sound quite good.

I heard a great comment by a comedian recently: "Marriage is the only war where you get to sleep with the enemy." 

Just from the few things you have said I am guessing that you and I have similar interests/approach to things. I like the image in your posts.

Kerry


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Kerry said:


> Just from the few things you have said I am guessing that you and I have similar interests/approach to things.


Oh what approach/interests is that? 

You did mention not really being in touch with your feelings, and i can relate to that. which reminds me, i actually found a really great website for meditations. i dont know if you are interested in that, but i found it helpful.


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

Yes, please do share the website with meditations. I found one today too that I thought was interesting. What I liked about it was owning your own stuff and accepting that we've chosen to be here and have these experiences. . .
www.peacethroughlove.com

Spiritual approach to things is what I was referring to.

-K
Kerry


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

cool i will check out that website. 

I used this one: Learning Meditation Home Page

I go to the meditation room and I go through a series of three or four of the recordings. My favorite one is "Discover your inner guide." I found that one very calming and helpful. The other day i was able to go to the river and sit by the stream and go through the meditation. very calming.


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

I've been to that one before. I love "The Meditaiton Room." What a great site. It has been around for a very long time. Thanks for the reminder.

Thanks!
-K


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

I just came here and deleted a post where I went on and on about my H's issues once again. Ugh. That is not going to solve anything. Once again, so much easier to pick apart someone else's issues. 

I need to focus on my own issues and change my own behavior. I see some things in myself that I will share later that I think are the root of our marriage issues, but I don't know what the root of those issues are.

Thanks for "listening."
-K


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Kerry said:


> I just came here and deleted a post where I went on and on about my H's issues once again. Ugh. That is not going to solve anything. Once again, so much easier to pick apart someone else's issues.


i do that too, pick my H apart. I actually used to go on and on in my journal about everything he did wrong. i made a new years resolution not to write anything negative about him.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

itjeng has given some great advice. I too have been a meditator for the past 12 years. I study yoga philosophy and find it very helpful. One of my favourite versus to contemplate is "the world is merely a reflection of your inner state". In other words how you view the world and others is basically coming from your own view of yourself. Do you look at someone negatively? If the answer is yes it means you view yourself negatively. 
You wanna make the biggest impact on your lover. Change the way YOU are. Quit being a victim of another person.


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

brad,

i've been meaning to post for days, but have been busy.

i am very familiar with the concept (i call it mirroring) you mention and have been meditating, doing yoga, etc. for many years. for whatever reasons, i have had a hard time applying what i have learned along the way in my marriage.

BUT, your very frank post just pushed me right off the cliff of my faith. it has literally changed the quality of my life and i truly thank you. things have definitely shifted. it was sort of a one-two punch between your post and reading/listening to a live, guided meditation at http://www.peacethroughlove.com

all of the kind support and understanding here has been helpful as well.

with heartfelt gratitude,
kerry


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

brad said:


> Quit being a victim of another person.


Right on brad, I'm loving this


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