# My story is sad but true



## ronin5573

have been lurking in here for months. I was just trying to find a post that seems remotely similar to my current situation. I suppose Im looking for comments from others to see what they think. 

So here goes .. I guess it all started years ago. My wife and I have been married for 13 years and dated 2 years before. I am 39 and so is she. We have 2 children ages 11 and 7. 
In the last few years I have felt a real distance between each other. I knew that we were having problems but at the time I just couldn’t put my finger on it. It seemed to me that she would schedule things that I wasn’t able to goto do to work . Admittedly I do work about 70 to 75 hours a week in a high paid but also very high stress job. So I suppose as time went by things got worse and worse. Me being the dumb husband and wrapped up in my own share of work problems never really seen the warning signs. With in the last year, She has almost emotionally cut her self off from me. Sex to her for the last year was more of a to do list kind of thing then something she really liked to do. We went from 4 times a week. To once a week to once a month. Truth be told the biggest thing that I seen was she didn’t want me to show her any affection.. NONE. I would give her a hug and there was just nothing there. Kisses were like kissing your sister toward the last year. As you can imagine, there is a lot of resentment from both sides at this point. So within the last few months after speaking to a friend about the situation, he said .. are you sure she doesn’t have anyone else? WOW that caught me off guard. However based on her current emotional state I though it a possibility. So never having looked at my or her phone records I did. Low and behold the same number keeps coming up. 30 min on her way to work 20 mins on her lunch break and another 40 mins on her way home. I went back over a year and the amount of time to the same number was consistent. So I called it. Man picks up the phone .. “ hello this is XXXXXX”. I just hung up and just felt stunned. The man on the other end was a janitor where she used to work. She has spoke of him but I never suspected anyting of adultery . She has had his grandkids spend the night at our house multiple times. Keep in mind he is 60. He does look about 50 though. 
After holding on to that information for about 3 weeks me and my wife had a very long and emotional talk. The calls came out. I told here that I believe she was having an affair and I wanted the truth. Of course she just said he was just a friend. I told her that I also have friends, none of which I speak to over an hour every day and with another 30 text messages. She said again I needed someone to talk to and he talked to me. So my repy was I don’t know of anyone willing to devote that much time to a girl he isn’t having sex with. She just sat for a minuite…. Hes just a friend. So I just told her things have gone to far and I want to fix this. She just said she doesn’t know how to fix it and she just doenst feel that “WAY” anymore. So I left for a few mins and decided to call that number . He picked right up and we talked for 20 mins.. I hit him pretty hard and he just confirmed what she has said. So in the end called him didn’t really make me feel better of worse. So I went home and told my wife that I think some time was in order and that I was going to move out. She agreed that it was a good idea. And moved out I did. 

In the last two weeks we have gone to a MC for 2 sessions. It was fine to go and talk but nothing really happened that made her feel any different about things. In the last session and just asked her…. Do you want to fix this and she said no that she didn’t. So I suppose if I want to fix it but she doesn’t then there is really nothing left to fix. I think she’s done. This realization has destroyed me the last few weeks. Of course I have tried make amends but its all in vien. Yesterday I asked once more and she said the same things she wants a divorce. 
Im lost but there is some comfort in knowing that I don’t really have a choice here. What to you all think?


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## lamaga

I'm so sorry you are here. But yes, lots of good advice and support to be found here.

I regret to say that I agree with you. If she doesn't want to make amends and heal your marriage, you cannot do it alone. (By the way, I don't know why you said you were trying to make amends, you aren't the one who left.)

Please do keep posting -- the next few weeks and months will be trying for you, so it's crucial to have some good support!


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## Totally Lost

You're right, if she says "I don't want to fix it", then that means there is nothing left and you can't fix it by yourself. 

And, rule #1 of having an affair is NEVER ADMIT to it. She's not going to admit it, nor is the man you called. Think about it...you are in a "high salary" job. You didn't say if your wife is in a high paying job or not, but even if she is, this guy is a "janitor" and obviously with him the quality of living standards would be much lower than with you.

It's almost like she's been wanting to have her cake and eat it too.

I wouldn't be as sad as I would be very ticked off for being used. That's my take on it.


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## ronin5573

Totally Lost said:


> You're right, if she says "I don't want to fix it", then that means there is nothing left and you can't fix it by yourself.
> 
> And, rule #1 of having an affair is NEVER ADMIT to it. She's not going to admit it, nor is the man you called. Think about it...you are in a "high salary" job. You didn't say if your wife is in a high paying job or not, but even if she is, this guy is a "janitor" and obviously with him the quality of living standards would be much lower than with you.
> 
> It's almost like she's been wanting to have her cake and eat it too.
> 
> I wouldn't be as sad as I would be very ticked off for being used. That's my take on it.


Anger hasnt kicked in yet. I know it will at some point. She does work but part time. All of our conversations in the last week have been about money. So thats her worry now .. not me at all


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## anchorwatch

No amount of MC will work as long as there are 3 individuals in a marriage, as you found out. 
She has checked out of the relationship and getting her emotional needs meet by another man. You may have had a part in this, but she should have looked to fix it. Instead she went outside of the marriage.
Don't leave your house or your children. She wants out, tell her to go to the OM. If you want your family, its time to play hardball. Maybe you can shock her out of it. Does the OM have a family?


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> No amount of MC will work as long as there are 3 individuals in a marriage, as you found out.
> She has checked out of the relationship and getting her emotional needs meet by another man. You may have had a part in this, but she should have looked to fix it. Instead she went outside of the marriage.
> Don't leave your house or your children. She wants out, tell her to go to the OM. If you want your family, its time to play hardball. Maybe you can shock her out of it. Does the OM have a family?


Ive moved out over 2 weeks ago. The OM is married and has 
been for 30 years. I dont know if it was an EA or sexual. I have canciled my next appt for marriage counseling.


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## chillymorn

go have a talk with the others mans wife! did she know how friendly they were!


I think they were having a physical affair. 

not that that changes anything but I"d want to know.and I'd want the others man wife to know also.


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## anchorwatch

Your letting her dictate the terms. She and the OM are deciding, with out consulting you, whats going to happen to you relationship and family. Is that OK with you? 

If not, then move back in. Contact the OM's wife. Call a lawyer. Get your finances under you control only. Make it uncomfortable for them. Tell her she needs to leave. You did nothing wrong, she went outside the marriage.

What do you want from this?


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Your letting her dictate the terms. She and the OM are deciding, with out consulting you, whats going to happen to you relationship and family. Is that OK with you?
> 
> If not, then move back in. Contact the OM's wife. Call a lawyer. Get your finances under you control only. Make it uncomfortable for them. Tell her she needs to leave. You did nothing wrong, she went outside the marriage.
> 
> What do you want from this?


Well your right actually. I have thought of contacting the OM wife. Im just not sure what it would solve. I was planign to give her just about everything ...... for the kids. I couldnt deal with them having to move and new schools in all.. It is financially stupid ... but its the right thing for the kids I think. What would it solve speaking the the OM wife?


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## Toffer

ronin,

1 - Move back in now. Leaving can be termed as abandonment
2 - At a minimum, she is having an Emotional Affair
3 - Contact the other man's wife and provide her with copies of the cell phone records
4 - Remove her name from all joint credit cards
5 - Take half the money you have in any joint savings/checking accounts and move it into accounts with only your name on it. Why should you continue to fund her extra-marital activities?
6 - Contact a lawyer ASAP to find out about your rights
7 - Look up the 180 plan here on TAM and implement it now. It will help you prepare for your life in the future

If you really want to know about the extent of her "friendship" put a keylogger on your PC, put a voice activated recorder (VAR) under the front seat of her car with heavy duty velcro. But a second VAR so you can take one out and listen to it while the other records newer conversations.

Good luck and I'm sorry you're here


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## This is me

Toffer is right on. You should have never moved out. Move back in. Contact the other mans wife. Learn the 180 and live it for you!!!

This other guy even if only had an emotional affair did the damage to help her detach from you emotionally. She was cheating your marriage, no two ways about it and left you in the dark.

Protect yourself financially, emotionally and stop doing what she wants you to do like moving out.


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## anchorwatch

Like you were confused before you knew of the affair, the OMW is in that position. Didn't you want to know? Let her make informed decisions about her life. Even if you don't want to break up the affair. 

This is not about revenge. It's about fair play. They are not playing fair with either you or the OMW. 

You are being passive about all of this. Will you give up your children so easily? Not to live with them?


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## This is me

ronin5573 said:


> Well your right actually. I have thought of contacting the OM wife. Im just not sure what it would solve. I was planign to give her just about everything ...... for the kids. I couldnt deal with them having to move and new schools in all.. It is financially stupid ... but its the right thing for the kids I think. What would it solve speaking the the OM wife?


This guy helped ruin your marriage. His marriage is probably gone down the tubes also and his wife has a right to know. In hindsight, wouldn't you want to have known?

You need to put the pressure back on them. You are not the bad guy here. Remember that.


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## This is me

I find it sad that you have been lurking here for months and didn't reach out for advice. Moving out was the wrong thing to do.

It is all hindsight now, but ask people here the steps you should be taking. You don't have to follow them, but you might get some wise advice that may not make sense since you are so close to it.


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## Totally Lost

When I went through a divorce I too had some of the same feelings "for the kids" that you are having. Looking back I should have stood up for me, instead of feeling guilty because everything failed (and unlike you it was mostly my fault).

You'll find out the kids are resilient and honestly my opinion is that by fighting for them now they'll understand better later that you had their best intentions at heart. I don't mean "fighting" as in arguing, but fighting for your rights as a parent.

I like others am wondering too if you did anything at all to alienate your wife besides just work long hours? Were you too tired physically to be there emotionally like she needed at some point in your marriage? Not pointing fingers, just asking.

Like others say too, move back in ASAP. Trust me, starting over from nothing is super hard in more ways than one. You don't have to fix the marriage but you do need to take up for yourself.


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## ronin5573

This is me said:


> I find it sad that you have been lurking here for months and didn't reach out for advice. Moving out was the wrong thing to do.
> 
> It is all hindsight now, but ask people here the steps you should be taking. You don't have to follow them, but you might get some wise advice that may not make sense since you are so close to it.


Thats why I posted in the first place. I didnt move out to leave. I moved out to give her time to think and to stop the constant fighting. Why is moving back now so important? At this point I see the kids 4 days a week . though not living there has been hard on me and the kids. I see why most here want to fight... I just dont know what im fighting for anymore !!!!
Maybe making the decision to divorce is better then not knowing.. For 3 weeks I didnt know where I stood and its total and complete HELL.


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## anchorwatch

She is not thinking in you or your children's best interest. It she were, wouldn't she have tried to fix the marriage and hold the family together? 
She doesn't need time. She is making it uncomfortable for you, to get rid of you. So she can carry on her shenanigans with your money and lifestyle. That's what all the fighting is about. 
The idea is for you to take control and take the power away from her. To turn it around on her. Even if divorce is the solution. 

As for the OMW. if you don't tell her about her husbands affair, you are also complicit in the deceit of the affair.

This is the advice you've asked for. It's your decision in the end. Not strangers on a forum. I understand that. I wish you and your family well.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> She is not thinking in you or your children's best interest. It she were, wouldn't she have tried to fix the marriage and hold the family together?
> She doesn't need time. She is making it uncomfortable for you, to get rid of you. So she can carry on her shenanigans with your money and lifestyle. That's what all the fighting is about.
> The idea is for you to take control and take the power away from her. To turn it around on her. Even if divorce is the solution.
> 
> As for the OMW. if you don't tell her about her husbands affair, you are also complicit in the deceit of the affair.
> 
> This is the advice you've asked for. It's your decision in the end. Not strangers on a forum. I understand that. I wish you and your family well.


Im going to call the OMW and she what she has to say about it all


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## ronin5573

I called the OMW. She does know who my wife is. They were all on a camping trip last october which she prevented me from attendng. She told me that she felt the way they interacted together was odd and she then told me she told her husbad to end all contact which he agreed to do. Its was big news to her that contact didnt end at all. I told her to do her own investigations and gave her my number if she wants to talk again. OH boy I think I was cheated on


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## anchorwatch

Sorry, my friend. That's why all the posters were dismayed at your passive attitude, in the face of betrayal.


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## ronin5573

Your all right .... no more mr nice guy


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## This is me

What you are fighting for is your kids and possibly the family that is so very important to them and a healty future.

I know I sound like a broken record to some here, but your amount of years together could mean she is going through a mid life crisis. All that I have learned over the past year is that a MLC is like a mental illness. It fogs the common sense of the person and this along with Aholes like the janitor help the foggy sufferer make some bad decisions.

We spouses don't help, because we see the unhappy partner as if they should snap out of it, but like a broken bone, it takes time to heal.

In most cases this fog will lift and the person goes back to common sensabilities. It takes a great amount of patience for the spouse sitting in the wings. But like any physical illness this mental illness can repair. 

If there is a ounce of hope for the marriage and the kids, learn what you can about how to work through this. I recommend the book Divorce Busting.


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## ronin5573

This is me said:


> What you are fighting for is your kids and possibly the family that is so very important to them and a healty future.
> 
> I know I sound like a broken record to some here, but your amount of years together could mean she is going through a mid life crisis. All that I have learned over the past year is that a MLC is like a mental illness. It fogs the common sense of the person and this along with Aholes like the janitor help the foggy sufferer make some bad decisions.
> 
> We spouses don't help, because we see the unhappy partner as if they should snap out of it, but like a broken bone, it takes time to heal.
> 
> In most cases this fog will lift and the person goes back to common sensabilities. It takes a great amount of patience for the spouse sitting in the wings. But like any physical illness this mental illness can repair.
> 
> If there is a ounce of hope for the marriage and the kids, learn what you can about how to work through this. I recommend the book Divorce Busting.


Your not even close to a broken record..... you are speaking the truth. I will buy that book and read it.


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## ronin5573

I called home this morning to say good morning to the kids. My wife picked up the call and was trying to make small talk. As an FYI today is my 13th wedding aniversary. I could tell that she knew that I called the OMW yesterday. She was asking things like is there any one that I spoke with yesterday? I refused to bring it up untill she came out an asked if I called the OMW. So I finally said if there is something you want to talk about ..... then just do it. She didnt. So I can only assume that the OMW must have went home and raised holy hell with her husband. This must have gotten back to my wife. She didnt seem that upset but maybe she really was and was hiding it. At the very least I know that the OM did speak to my wife yesterday. I dont know if what I did was good or not but Im not go to sit here and take it anymore.


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## anchorwatch

She doesn't care what you know. She's got you where she wants you, out of the house supporting her lifestyle. Your only guessing, as far as she is concerned. She's confidant. So far everything she has done has worked in her favor. Be ready for her wrath. When you start to take back control, she's going to go off the deep end. Stand your ground. Stay calm, but resolved.

From the camping trip story, they were more worried about you than the OMW, at that time. The OMW may be in a weak position to do anything about it. Did you give her copies of the text and phone records?


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> She doesn't care what you know. She's got you where she wants you, out of the house supporting her lifestyle. Your only guessing, as far as she is concerned. She's confidant. So far everything she has done has worked in her favor. Be ready for her wrath. When you start to take back control, she's going to go off the deep end. Stand your ground. Stay calm, but resolved.
> 
> From the camping trip story, they were more worried about you than the OMW, at that time. The OMW may be in a weak position to do anything about it. Did you give her copies of the text and phone records?


I didnt give them to her .. I offered to meet and give them or I offered to fax them. I realize that she was at work and the call totally caught her off guard. I did give the OMW my cell phone so if she wanted more information she could call. I think she wont if this has already got back to my wife. I know that when my wife realizes she is loosing control its going to get ugly. What do you think I should do from here?


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## Toffer

ronin,

You're doing the right things here

Next, move back into the house or it could be considered abandonment if you go down the divorce trail. If she wants seperate living quarters from you, she should move out. She's the one having the affair

Also seperate your finances ASAP. Take her name off all joint credit cards and move half the money in any bank accounts to ones with just your name on them. Why should you underwrite her screwing around?


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## anchorwatch

Toffer said:


> ronin,
> 
> You're doing the right things here
> 
> Next, move back into the house or it could be considered abandonment if you go down the divorce trail. If she wants seperate living quarters from you, she should move out. She's the one having the affair
> 
> Also seperate your finances ASAP. Take her name off all joint credit cards and move half the money in any bank accounts to ones with just your name on them. Why should you underwrite her screwing around?


:iagree:

I agree with both of Toffer's post. 

Maybe have a Mod move your thread to CWI too.


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## Almostrecovered

anchorwatch said:


> Maybe have a Mod move your thread to CWI too.


there you will find lots of poster who have gone thru similar situations

you need to realize that your wife in many respects follows a "script" or pattern that most people engaged in an EA do


please read the newbie link in my signature


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## ronin5573

Toffer said:


> ronin,
> 
> You're doing the right things here
> 
> Next, move back into the house or it could be considered abandonment if you go down the divorce trail. If she wants seperate living quarters from you, she should move out. She's the one having the affair
> 
> Also seperate your finances ASAP. Take her name off all joint credit cards and move half the money in any bank accounts to ones with just your name on them. Why should you underwrite her screwing around?


Im very torn about moving back home right now. On one side I feel that I need to be there, for the kids. I dont know what happens there when Im not there. I do talk to the kids at a the very least 3 times a day. They still seem good. On the other side I do feel that moving back in could create some real serious problems. I know that as things progress, She going to get inraged. I picture her getting really pissed off and in the state shes in ... I really dont know what she is capable of. Imagine we have an agument and she calls 911. The cops wont care what happened, the will cuff me and throw my ass in jail no matter what. What REALLY happend doesnt matter. I will goto jail and have to see a judge. This is my worry. Could she do all that...... I do know. I just see the kids there crying as im hauled off to jail. What do you think ?


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## Almostrecovered

ronin5573 said:


> I really dont know what she is capable of. Imagine we have an agument and she calls 911. The cops wont care what happened, the will cuff me and throw my ass in jail no matter what. What REALLY happend doesnt matter. I will goto jail and have to see a judge. This is my worry. Could she do all that...... I do know. I just see the kids there crying as im hauled off to jail. What do you think ?


1) go buy a VAR and keep it on you at all times when at home or talking to her. That way if she tries to trump up false charges you can turn it around on her. 
2) if you are the one that calls 911, the cops will usually arrest your wife in that situation


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## anonim

the cops wont arrest you unles they think you commited a crime. have a recorder device to prove you didnt BEFORE you go back home, which are are legally entitled to be in. i.e. the police cant stop you from moving in.


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## A Bit Much

> Imagine we have an agument and she calls 911. The cops wont care what happened, the will cuff me and throw my ass in jail no matter what. What REALLY happend doesnt matter. I will goto jail and have to see a judge. This is my worry. Could she do all that...... I do know


The cops won't go there unless you physically harm your wife. She can call, and all they would do is ask one of you to leave for the night.

How about you not arguing with her? She can throw the ball but that doesn't mean you have to catch it. Especially if you know how unstable she is prior to returning. You actually have the advantage.


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## ronin5573

Im going to let things lye for a few days to see if anything develops.


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## Almostrecovered

bad idea


it's okay to clear your head, I get that

but you want to sit and wait and see what happens, you need to take action. It didn't work well for Hamlet, it won't work for you either. 

you are keeping yourself in limbo and it is a terrible place to be. You need to show your wife that her infidelity has consequences. By doing nothing you demonstrate that she can continue to cake eat. The fact she even knows you talked to OMW demonstrates she is still willing to contact her OM underground and will continue to do as such unless she starts to see the reality of what she is doing. (and honestly she may never come out of that fog but your best shot is to stand up and show her that you will not tolerate a third person in the marriage)


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## KathyBatesel

Ronin, don't ignore what people are telling you about moving back in. Possession is 9/10 of the law.... It may be awkward, uncomfortable, and just plain unpleasant, but it is necessary. You still don't know how things will play out, so pay attention to the voices of wisdom.


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## warlock07

When you confronted the wife the first time time they regrouped and got their affairs stories straight. Don't believe a word either of them say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy

ronin5573 said:


> Im very torn about moving back home right now. On one side I feel that I need to be there, for the kids. I dont know what happens there when Im not there. I do talk to the kids at a the very least 3 times a day. They still seem good. On the other side I do feel that moving back in could create some real serious problems. I know that as things progress, She going to get inraged. I picture her getting really pissed off and in the state shes in ... I really dont know what she is capable of. Imagine we have an agument and she calls 911. The cops wont care what happened, the will cuff me and throw my ass in jail no matter what. What REALLY happend doesnt matter. I will goto jail and have to see a judge. This is my worry. Could she do all that...... I do know. I just see the kids there crying as im hauled off to jail. What do you think ?


 If you care about you children and you do not want to be taken to the cleaners by your cheating wife, YOU MUST MOVE BACK NOW. If you do not move back, you are giving her the upper and on both the children and the home when the divorce settlement comes. To avoid being arrested, secretly carry a VAR at all times that records every conversation. Never tell her about the VAR. Only play the VAR after she makes her false statement to the police. Once she has proven to be a liar to the police she cannot play this card again and it can be used against her in the divorce. If you do nothing else, please believe all of us when we say to secretly carry a VAR at all times and move back home today. You will forever regret not doing this.

Also, ask the mods to move this to the infidelity section as this is at least an emotional affair (EA).


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## Beelzebub

Cops wont just show up and thro you in jail for that. if that was the case most men would be in jail. 
second, move home, and never speak to her. period. not even hi. 
this your house, and these your kids. 
and someone want to move out then she is the one. 
dont give her money. take all credit cards. close your accounts. 
go to the gym. and dress up nice very nice daily. look happy. and go out every night
that would blow a gasket in her brain.


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## ronin5573

Well eveyone is telling me the same thing.. so tonight I guess I will go back home. Im not even going to call her.. I will just show up


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## TRy

ronin5573 said:


> Well eveyone is telling me the same thing.. so tonight I guess I will go back home. Im not even going to call her.. I will just show up


 If she says anything tell her that she is the cheater so why should you be the one moving. She will try to get you to argue, do not bite. Also, since you have most of the income, start depositing all pay into a separate account now and move 1/2 of your current accounts into the separate accounts (include what she has in her separate accounts in determining the total). Cut off all spare cash. Contact an attorney. 

This may well end in divorce and it is not your fault. She is the one that cheated. You are a nice guy that will accept blame to try to fix the marriage. She will try to use this against you. You are not perfect, but neither is she. You did not meet all of her needs, but she did not meet all of yours either. Cheaters will try to hold you to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to. You cannot win in this game because acting as the self appointed judge she does not want you to win, as she needs you to lose so that she can feel free to cheat. You must be the bad guy in her mind for her not to feel guilty for wronging you.

Going on a camping trip with the OM and his weak wife without inviting you tells you a lot. She is in deep. You must now think of what is best for both you and your children. Stop thinking about what is best for her because she is selfishly doing enough of that already.


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## ronin5573

I NEED HELP 
I just spoke with my wife and told her im comming back. She absoutly went ape ****. She said if I come back she will call the cops. oh boy this is getting out of hand. Im going back tonight and I will see what happens


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## keko

ronin5573 said:


> I NEED HELP
> I just spoke with my wife and told her im comming back. She absoutly went ape ****. She said if I come back she will call the cops. oh boy this is getting out of hand. Im going back tonight and I will see what happens


Why? Is her boyfriend at the house?

Keep a voice recorder and if possible a camera on yourself when you go there.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Why? Is her boyfriend at the house?
> 
> Keep a voice recorder and if possible a camera on yourself when you go there.


I dont know what going on ... thats why I have to be there.


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## keko

Don't call her again, just show up at the house with the key and go in without knocking.

*Keep the voice recorder running before you get in.*


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## Goldmember357

not sure if your religious but if you are its okay to divorce as she is the cheating spouse. She is forever a lost soul their is no saving this woman she is corrupted. Its also a shame you did not know of this for so long and that for a long time you were not present in the marriage (it seems). I wish you best of luck and suggest you divorce immediately. 

You will be better off you also have a high paying job and she will be with a janitor so just imagine how that will work. Majority of the time the cheating relationship does not last and when it fails i am sure she will be hit with the truth of how low she really sunk but it will be to late. As she will be forever lost

best of luck


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## sandc

ronin5573 said:


> I NEED HELP
> I just spoke with my wife and told her im comming back. She absoutly went ape ****. She said if I come back she will call the cops. oh boy this is getting out of hand. Im going back tonight and I will see what happens


My guess is OMW kicked OM out and he is now planning on living in your home. I suggest you call the police if she does. You have every right to live in YOUR home. THIS is why everyone told you not to leave your house. You shouldn't have warned her and just showed up. You probably would have caught them in the act. Literally.

I STRONGLY suggest you start listening religiously to the ideas you are being given here. 50 stories a month just like yours come across TAM and almost all of them follow a very similar script. Please.... listen.


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## Hopefull363

Listen to what you've been told. It's important and coming from people that have been there. Go home open the door with the key just like you live there. If the locks are changed call the police yourself. Just make sure you have something proving your address. Do get a voice operated tape recorder and keep it on you at ALL times. Do not answer her or talk to her if she's bating you. Ignore her. Have her served with divorce papers ASAP


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> Listen to what you've been told. It's important and coming from people that have been there. Go home open the door with the key just like you live there. If the locks are changed call the police yourself. Just make sure you have something proving your address. Do get a voice operated tape recorder and keep it on you at ALL times. Do not answer her or talk to her if she's bating you. Ignore her. Have her served with divorce papers ASAP


I left work early do I could get home. She is with the kids going to see fireworks. So I walked in and there out. Good I really don't want to fight in front of the kids. When I told her I'm comming back home she went nuts. On speaker phone with the kids in the car. It's kind of crazy, like it's a different person. Let's see what ha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

ronin5573 said:


> I left work early do I could get home. She is with the kids going to see fireworks. So I walked in and there out. Good I really don't want to fight in front of the kids. When I told her I'm comming back home she went nuts. On speaker phone with the kids in the car. It's kind of crazy, like it's a different person. Let's see what ha
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have a look around the house if anything has been taken out, changed or if anyone else has been living there, etc. You could even have a look through her computer and print off her files/emails.


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## warlock07

call the police before you head home. explain the situation.


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## the guy

Did you get a VAR?

Are you bringing a witness?

Have you call the cops to inform them that your lady is threatening you with false accusations?

Dude, you need to protect your self and I have a feeling your not...YOUR JUST GOING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!

At least be prepared for your chick to start pushing your buttons, and have a back up plan to counter act her terriost attacks. Like staying in your man cave or extra bed room.

I mean you can go home but damb it man have a plan!!!!! 

BTW, she's pissed off b/c you just took her option away for filling abandonment in the divorce. Good job brother...but still have a damb plan....please!


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## Hopefull363

Did you get the VAR? Very important. If she calls the police and you can prove that she's the instigator, she could be taken to the station for lying.


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## the guy

I think were are to late!

The VAR was mentioned early on and it seems OP just went right by it.....so sorry.

I hope he can regroup and come up with a good plan.


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## ronin5573

the guy said:


> I think were are to late!
> 
> The VAR was mentioned early on and it seems OP just went right by it.....so sorry.
> 
> I hope he can regroup and come up with a good plan.


I'm here and she came home. She said that she was picking up a swimsuit for my son. I think she just wanted to know if I was here. She was po
Pissed that I'm here. She went into her act and I tried to ignore her but she would t let up . Let's just say she said some really harsh things. I recorded it all. I told her that I did make some mistakes but when she we t outside the marriage, that was all her. She did the same routine just a friend and all. Then said I was a total ******* for calling the OM wife. Then she just kept going off on how terrible I was. I to her to file then. I did record it. I'm totally lost here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

ronin5573 said:


> I'm here and she came home. She said that she was picking up a swimsuit for my son. I think she just wanted to know if I was here. She was po
> Pissed that I'm here. She went into her act and I tried to ignore her but she would t let up . Let's just say she said some really harsh things. I recorded it all. I told her that I did make some mistakes but when she we t outside the marriage, that was all her. She did the same routine just a friend and all. Then said I was a total ******* for calling the OM wife. Then she just kept going off on how terrible I was. I to her to file then. I did record it. I'm totally lost here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"Encourage" her to attack you physicaly and then call the cops right away. That will likely get her out of the house for a few weeks/months and in the mean time you'll be in a better emotional state to think about your future actions.

Make sure to store the recordings in a computer and a jump drive. So if she finds one of them and destroys it you'll have another copy in a safe place.


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## aug

make copies of all your recordings and store one offsite (outside the home).

Dont let her know you're recording.

Start to separate your bank accounts, credit cards, etc.

Remove her from your life insurance, etc...


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## Almostrecovered

you need a lawyer ASAP


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## ronin5573

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

It's 9 am I spent the night but she never came home with the kids. I feel drained.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Does your kids have a cell phone? 

Does she have family nearby that she could have stayed overnight?

Check her bank account/credit card records if she paid for a hotel for the night.


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## ronin5573

She at her friends house. I can't check the bank as she has changed passwords. I came here to be with the kids ...., no kids . Man when a marriage goes south it goes all the way south
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Is your wife there at the moment or just dropped them off there?


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## Hopefull363

Just stand you're ground and stay. She'll come back eventually. I don't agree with the advice of encouraging her to attack you. Just keep recording. Ignoring her will probably be all she needs to step up her attacks on you. By not responding to her attacks on tape you will look like the victim that you are.

Lawyer up ASAP. Keep a journal of some sort with dates and times of everything she does to alienate the children from you. That will be more ammo you have to get more visitation or custody of your children.


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## Thor

Dadsdivorce.com

Get a lawyer LAST WEEK!

It is ok for her to be angry. Or jubilant. Whatever. Her mood is none of your co.cern and you should not try to manage her moods. Her mood is her choice.

Your job now is to secure the best possible outcome for yourself in divorce. This is the best way to secure the best outcome for your children.

Ironically the worst thing you can do is try to be fair. Your good faith will be used against you which will allso harm your kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

I have moved back in. She is totally going nuts about it. I dont care. She has been running herself and the kids ragged the last few weeks. Its as if she is tryiNg to fill every second of every hour of every day with something to do so she doesnt have to deal with it. I told her that Im going to put my foot down on that. Its the kids summer break from school and I understand that but there tired. They need to get some sleep as well. I think this is the only thing that got through her head as she agreed. She has said that she is going to make my life a living hell living there and so far has done just that. She is pushing every button that she can think of to get me angry, so far I havent bit on it. When we speak I keep a normal tone and a normal volume. I could tell right away that my daughter is scared of my wife. Its like she is afraid to talk to me in my wifes presence. I will do all I can to make her feel secure and keep communication going. My son seems to be talking things better, but hes only 7 and maybe dosent realize as much. Im going to do my utmost to keep my head up and try to be positive as possible. Im still crushed and my sleeping habits havent improved. Thanks for everyone telling me to move back in. I now realize that I have to be there. Its not going to be plesant, living in the basement on a pull out sofa bed, but I will make do.
The most ironic thing is she wants me gone because she says all we do is fight. Last night I was in the basement, and she came down to start the fight. So maybe she needs to take some blame for that as well


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## keko

She needs to be kicked out of the house. Keep the VAR running and the first time she hits you call the cops.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I have moved back in. She is totally going nuts about it. I dont care. She has been running herself and the kids ragged the last few weeks. Its as if she is tryiNg to fill every second of every hour of every day with something to do so she doesnt have to deal with it. I told her that Im going to put my foot down on that. Its the kids summer break from school and I understand that but there tired. They need to get some sleep as well. I think this is the only thing that got through her head as she agreed. She has said that she is going to make my life a living hell living there and so far has done just that. She is pushing every button that she can think of to get me angry, so far I havent bit on it. When we speak I keep a normal tone and a normal volume. I could tell right away that my daughter is scared of my wife. Its like she is afraid to talk to me in my wifes presence. I will do all I can to make her feel secure and keep communication going. My son seems to be talking things better, but hes only 7 and maybe dosent realize as much. Im going to do my utmost to keep my head up and try to be positive as possible. Im still crushed and my sleeping habits havent improved. Thanks for everyone telling me to move back in. I now realize that I have to be there. Its not going to be plesant, living in the basement on a pull out sofa bed, but I will make do.
> The most ironic thing is she wants me gone because she says all we do is fight. Last night I was in the basement, and she came down to start the fight. So maybe she needs to take some blame for that as well


She's lost control and you've taken some back, which is how it should be. Now it's a fairer playing field. Of course she's not going to like you standing up to her!

Take care of your kids and most importantly yourself. Keep ignoring her and keep focused. You're doing the right thing!!


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## aug

keko said:


> She needs to be kicked out of the house. Keep the VAR running and the first time she hits you call the cops.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yes. do this.


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## keko

Ronin, read this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49023-just-found-out-about-my-wifes-affair.html.

That user was in a very similar situation as you, he was out of the house while his wife was cheating on him. He went back into the house and after a small incident her had his wife and her boyfriend kicked out with restraining order on them.


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## ronin5573

I spent the day with the kids. Went biking .. went in the pool for a while and had a really good time. My wife got home at 6 and totally ignored me. Fine with me. Tommorow with be a screaming fest. Up to this point my payroll checks have been deposited into our joint accounts. Tommorow its going into my personal account. Im sure she will be checking the account at midnight. My guess is all hell is going to break loose when she realizes she loosing control


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## EleGirl

She changed the password on your joint bank account? And now she's going to get upset with you for putting your paycheck in an account in your own name?

WS's never make any sense.

Your wife is a SAHM right? Perhaps it's time to tell her that she needs to get a job to support herself.

You will pay the bills, buy groceries and get the kids what they need. She has to provide for herself.

Is she tries to leave with the children, tell her that you will not allow it. If she does anyway go see an attorney the next day to get a court order to have them returned to live at the family home.


Have you considered puting a VAR in her car? You can use velcro to fasten it under the drive's seat. It's a good way to get evidence of what she's up to.


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## ronin5573

She had a long night. I could hear her upstairs at 2 then 3 then 4 in the morning. She was on the computer checking our bank account looking for the direct deposit. She was also doing job searches and looking for homes in the area. She left the house at 5:15. She didnt have to be at work untill 8:30. So she called my cell at 7:30 and told me what a piece of **** I am. I let it roll off like water off a ducks back. She is loosing control and she is getting real pissed. Im not really pissed, I just starting to make plans for my and my childrens future.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> She had a long night. I could hear her upstairs at 2 then 3 then 4 in the morning. She was on the computer checking our bank account looking for the direct deposit. She was also doing job searches and looking for homes in the area. She left the house at 5:15. She didnt have to be at work untill 8:30. So she called my cell at 7:30 and told me what a piece of **** I am. I let it roll off like water off a ducks back. She is loosing control and she is getting real pissed. Im not really pissed, I just starting to make plans for my and my childrens future.


She can't bully you out of your house... though it's funny that she is trying. Maybe before that stuff used to work on you. She'd get mad, you'd get scared and run off somewhere until she said it was ok to come back and be her lap dog.

No mas.


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## anchorwatch

Isn't it better when you have some say in your destiny? 

She's fighting it tooth and nail. She'll have to come to you for some compromise, sooner or later. Be ready. Speak to your lawyer. 

It's exhausting too. Watch your health. Though, I'll bet it's the best you've felt in weeks. 

Stay the course, calm but resolved.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Isn't it better when you have some say in your destiny?
> 
> She's fighting it tooth and nail. She'll have to come to you for some compromise, sooner or later. Be ready. Speak to your lawyer.
> 
> It's exhausting too. Watch your health. Though, I'll bet it's the best you've felt in weeks.
> 
> Stay the course, calm but resolved.


Ive picked a lawyer ... Im just doing some more reserch on him. I was planning to call and make an appointment on Monday. This has been exhausting to the fullest extent. I might pick up some tylenol PM tonight. My sleeping hapits have been poor for the last 3 weeks. I read on this board that PM helps. I do feel empowered for myself. It is a nice feeling after all the up and downs.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Ive picked a lawyer ... Im just doing some more reserch on him. I was planning to call and make an appointment on Monday. This has been exhausting to the fullest extent. I might pick up some tylenol PM tonight. My sleeping hapits have been poor for the last 3 weeks. I read on this board that PM helps. I do feel empowered for myself. It is a nice feeling after all the up and downs.


PM does work, so does Melatonin. It's in the vitamin aisle of the pharmacy.


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## ronin5573

Man this just keeps going on and on. So after my direct depost didnt show up she is in a frenzy. She called me and told me that she went to the bank and split a bunch of money up. half to her half to me. She said that my share is a certified check made out to me alone. She says that she will hold the checks hostage until I bring her the title to her car, and her and the childrens social security cards and things like that. She wants me to sign over the title to her car and then she would sign the title to mine. Both cars are worth about the same thing. I thinking Im going to do it. Her car I could care less about and the fact I would have some money before she raids the account would be a plus. Is this ill advised. I dont know. Its doenst appear to be too stupid. What do you all think ?


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## sandc

If she wants it then something's fishy. Check with a lawyer before you make any decisions or sign anything.


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## Conrad&Janie

ronin5573 said:


> Ive picked a lawyer ... Im just doing some more reserch on him. I was planning to call and make an appointment on Monday. This has been exhausting to the fullest extent. I might pick up some tylenol PM tonight. My sleeping hapits have been poor for the last 3 weeks. I read on this board that PM helps. I do feel empowered for myself. It is a nice feeling after all the up and downs.


Plain old diphenhydramine 25mg (2 capsules) every bit as good as Tylenol PM @1/8th the price.

It's generic benadryl.


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## keko

Don't sign over the car or hand over anything. Just stall her, say you're waiting for a response from your lawyer.

Keep a record of how much money was in the bank account, you can get it back through legal methods.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Don't give her anything. She's still trying to dictating terms. Tell her she's not dictating terms. Your layer will handle it. Let her know she'll be held accountable for all the money and how it was spent. And how she blocked you from access to it and the account.

She is trying to stay in control, she's still fighting, not compromising. Using leverage that she does not have. Don't be surprised a toxic friend or the OM is telling her what to do.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Don't give her anything. She's still trying to dictating terms. Tell her she's not dictating terms. Your layer will handle it. Let her know she'll be held accountable for all the money and how it was spent. And how she blocked you from access to it and the account.
> 
> She is trying to stay in control, she's still fighting, not compromising. Using leverage that she does not have. Don't be surprised a toxic friend or the OM is telling her what to do.


This morning she was so hung up on money I told her to do that. Maybe this is a control thing I dunno. I just think to have half of the money in my control cant be a bad thing.... if Im incorrect then let me have it. Though you right that the title to the cars was never spoke of. So I think you make a great point. I checked and she did take the money out. Maybe I will tell her to give me the check and the cars wasnt discussed.


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## keko

ronin5573 said:


> this morning she was so hung up on money i told her to do that. Maybe this is a control thing i dunno. I just think to have half of the money in my control cant be a bad thing.... If im incorrect then let me have it. Though you right that the title to the cars was never spoke of. So i think you make a great point. I checked and she did take the money out. Maybe i will tell her to give me the check and the cars wasnt discussed.


Why didn't you secure that money before moving back in?


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Why didn't you secure that money before moving back in?


I didnt. This was a way of doing that. But I think what Im going to do is go home. Forget everything that she wants. She either gives me the check or doesnt. Everything else was mentioned after the fact. This is about power. I cannot allow her to dictate the terms of anything. Cars and other documets were not discussed. She has half the money in her own personal accout why can she hold it ransom for other things


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## keko

Tell her you accept her proposal but you'll only do it once the money is cashed into your account, then don't sign over the title.


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## Thor

The money will all be accounted for in the settlement. You'll get your half eventually. Don't panic over it now. Do talk to your lawyer asap on how to handle the situation. Because it is a check made out to your name, she could lose it or burn it and then there is a big problem in getting the money back. But the money would come out of her half of the settlement if she burns the check. Anyhow, your lawyer may want to send a demand letter or otherwise document what she has done.

Keep your cool, don't take the bait! Keep a VAR on you at all times.


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## Hopefull363

Unless you've seen it I highly doubt there is a certified check in your name.


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## ronin5573

We got into another fight this morning. She refused to give me the check untill she got all the other things she wanted. I told her no. She isnt in control. So i told her give it or not whatever. In the end she threw it at me. So I went and deposited it.


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## anchorwatch

ronin5573 said:


> I didnt. This was a way of doing that. But I think what Im going to do is go home. Forget everything that she wants. She either gives me the check or doesnt. Everything else was mentioned after the fact. This is about power. I cannot allow her to dictate the terms of anything. Cars and other documets were not discussed. She has half the money in her own personal accout why can she hold it ransom for other things


She can not hold your money, assets or your children ransom. The laws of your state rule, not her. 
That is why it is imperative that you speak with counsel quickly. 

The thing is, she did the same thing you would have been advised to do, put half the money in your personal account. She does realize that is what would or have been done in do order, but she wanted something for it. 

She is a hard nut. She shows no sign of trying to work this out with you, yet. Has she always had her way? Do you think the affair was broken up and she is angry about that?

Keep it up. She's throwing tantrums like 3 year old who can't get their way. When she realizes that won't work with you, she'll start to act like an adult.


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## keko

Nice, how does feel to have some control back?

Now don't slack off and get easy with her, you have a long way to go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> She can not hold your money, assets or your children ransom. The laws of your state rule, not her.
> That is why it is imperative that you speak with counsel quickly.
> 
> The thing is, she did the same thing you would have been advised to do, put half the money in your personal account. She does realize that is what would or have been done in do order, but she wanted something for it.
> 
> She is a hard nut. She shows no sign of trying to work this out with you, yet. Has she always had her way? Do you think the affair was broken up and she is angry about that?
> 
> Keep it up. She's throwing tantrums like 3 year old who can't get their way. When she realizes that won't work with you, she'll start to act like an adult.


She has had her way for a very long time. Back then its was a way of showing love. I know now that she took it as a sign of weakness. I am starting to think that I did break up the affair. The OM wife called me yesterday. She was fishing for more information and I gave it to her. This morning my wife didnt say anything about it so I assume she doesnt know about the call. When i called the other mans wife last week my wife knew about it right away. I dont think she is angry with the fact I caused problems with her affair I think she beyond angry.. in raged even. She is throwing tantrums and even doing it in front of the kids which I have to put a stop to. She at this stage hasnt shown me anything that would lead me to believe a resolution is possible. I dont think she is thinking clearly and is being very irrational about everything. Anger is still up front and center. Im going to stay the course and try to keep calm and level headed and not bite when she puts her hook out there. Something tells me that she is still getting advise from the OM. She still says all they were was friends and wont admit to any type of wroug doing


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Nice, how does feel to have some control back?
> 
> Now don't slack off and get easy with her, you have a long way to go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do feel empowered. I still have a sence of loss but I know now that its over and time to get the ball rolling and get the buisness end done. I going to stay the course


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## Shaggy

Continue to inform the OMW if you think she remains in contact with him. They might be using prepaid burner phones. 

The OMW is your best friend right now and is the best pathway to killing the affair. 

Even if you dont R. The affair is affecting your children and it has to end
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopefull363

I'm sure as time goes by you'll have your up and down days. Stay strong you're doing the right thing. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. We are all routing for you and here for you. Remember that.


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> I'm sure as time goes by you'll have your up and down days. Stay strong you're doing the right thing. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. We are all routing for you and here for you. Remember that.


Thats a nice thing for you to say. Thank you for saying so


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## ronin5573

So today me and the kids have planned a day out. lunch and to see the new spiderman movie. Yesterday my STBXW meet my cousin and her kids at the beach. Then they decided that my daughter would sleep over at my cousins house. So when I got home last night after my 12 hour day at work the house was empty. So I called a buddy and we went out for some dinner and have a few drinks. I got home about 11 and my wife and son were home both sleeping. I check on him and all was well so I went to bed. This morining I spoke with my son and told him that even though his sister wasnt here that we could still goto the movie and he seemed excited. Then my wife came downstairs in her typical mood. She told my son that she is going to pick my daughter up and they and my cousin and her
kids were going to meet up at my aunts house. They were going to go swimming and going to have a picknic and then after that would be going go karting. Of course he felt left out by that. My wife told him that its his choice what he wanted to do. So he then decided to go with her. Now of course I am really upset but I refused to show it. I told my son that its his choice and if he decided to go with his mother that this ok. I told him dont worry about me and he can go and have a great time. We can still go and see that movie another time. I did everything to make him feel as if he wasnt making a choice and that I loved him. I think I did. After she got out of the shower and my son was upstairs packing up for the day my wife came downstairs gloting like she felt good about what she did. She said are up angry. I didnt answear. She asked again louder this time are you angry. I looked right at her and said ..... Im not angry .... I done with her. She seemed confused but pretended this is didnt bother her. She said good. Then I kissed my son goodby and they got in her car and left. Yes I really upset that she would play the children aganst me. But i knew it was comming. She is running out of cards in her deck. I have to stay the course


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## Phenix70

Damn, I HATE when people use their children as pawns like your wife did with your son.
Major kudos to you for doing what you did to reassure your son, it actually brought tears to my eyes reading it.
I applaud you for being such a great dad & doing what you can to protect your children, too bad your wife isn't of the same mind.
Wishing you lots of luck & hopefully full custody.


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## sandc

ronin5573 said:


> She has had her way for a very long time. Back then its was a way of showing love. I know now that she took it as a sign of weakness. I am starting to think that I did break up the affair. The OM wife called me yesterday. She was fishing for more information and I gave it to her. This morning my wife didnt say anything about it so I assume she doesnt know about the call. When i called the other mans wife last week my wife knew about it right away. I dont think she is angry with the fact I caused problems with her affair I think she beyond angry.. in raged even. She is throwing tantrums and even doing it in front of the kids which I have to put a stop to. She at this stage hasnt shown me anything that would lead me to believe a resolution is possible. I dont think she is thinking clearly and is being very irrational about everything. Anger is still up front and center. Im going to stay the course and try to keep calm and level headed and not bite when she puts her hook out there. Something tells me that she is still getting advise from the OM. She still says all they were was friends and wont admit to any type of wroug doing


You did break up the affair and that's why she's angry. She still in the fog. Her fantasy world is crumbling at this moment and you did that so she's pissed at you. So this sounds like she's still in the early stages. Keep pushing for the D. You really have no alternative as she isn't remorseful so there is no way you two can R. R can't begin until she wants to try to repair the damage she's done. And that's only if you are still interested in being married to her.


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## ronin5573

sandc said:


> You did break up the affair and that's why she's angry. She still in the fog. Her fantasy world is crumbling at this moment and you did that so she's pissed at you. So this sounds like she's still in the early stages. Keep pushing for the D. You really have no alternative as she isn't remorseful so there is no way you two can R. R can't begin until she wants to try to repair the damage she's done. And that's only if you are still interested in being married to her.


Thanks for everyone's support. Im doing the 180 and now realize why.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

ronin5573 said:


> Thanks for everyone's support. Im doing the 180 and now realize why.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then you, sir, are the man. Keep doing that and don't give up. She will come around eventually. By that time you can decide if it's too little too late or not.


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## Shaggy

You should worry about the money she is spending to compete with you for their affection. Take what steps you can to cut off her access to shared money and credit.

It's not uncommon for folks like her to start buying affection with gifts, trips etc, all expecting you to pay for her.


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## ronin5573

So last night I got home at 7:30. Spent the day at my parents and fixed some screens at their house. It took my mind off of things and I enjoyed the work. When I got home the kids were there and I talked with them about their weekend and they seemed in a pretty good mood. My wife came downstairs in a foul mood. I could tell she wanted to fight about whatever. She seen that the coffee pot still had coffee grounds in it. So she started .. if Im going to live there then I need to clean up. I didnt bite. When I ignore her she just gets more pissed. So she then said that if i dont clean it right now then she would throw it out. So I told her to throw it out. I prefer dunkin dounuts anyway LOL. So with that she took the basket out the coffee maker and threw it at me. She missed. Now this is all happening in front of the kids. So I tried to laugh it off for my kids sake. Then I just watched tv with them till 8:30 and they were going to bed so I went downstairs to lay down. This morning I got up and got ready for work. She was in her bedroom and the kids were still sleeping. So I kissed the kids goodby and then left. No encounters with her this morning which is a blessing. Its takes a toll having to be the bigger person in all these battles. On the way out I stoped into the kitchen... coffee pot was gone .. So Im going to stop at dunkin dounuts on the way to work and get some work done and see what her next plan of attack is.


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## Conrad&Janie

Ronin,

Next time she starts in on you about how poorly you do things, just smile and tell her to get her own place.


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## ronin5573

Anyone have any ideas on selecting a Divorce attourney?
Did some google searches but there isnt really any good review sites


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## Conrad&Janie

ronin5573 said:


> Anyone have any ideas on selecting a Divorce attourney?
> Did some google searches but there isnt really any good review sites


What area?


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## ronin5573

Conrad&Janie said:


> What area?


Will county Illinois


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Will county Illinois


Finding a divorce attorney is hit or miss. You can pick and choose who you like by 'interviewing' them. The first visits are free, and if you don't get a good vibe, interview until you're satisfied. Here's a web page to get you started:

LII | LII / Legal Information Institute

Click on Find a Lawyer, then Family Law. Go down the list until one stands out for you.


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## Hopefull363

References from people you know that's gotten divorced?


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## Thor

I called several offices to talk to set up free consultations. Some will do phone consults, others will do office consults. About 15 minutes. What I did find is that they are mostly sales pitches and it is surprisingly difficult to actually talk to the atty! The web page says free consult but they are trying to get you roped in.

Have some basic data before you call. Your incomes, children's ages, basic financial info (savings, retirement accounts, debts). Any special issues (e.g. kids with ongoing medical expenses). The atty will tell you the general landscape in your area, i.e. given the basics you have told him, you can expect to pay about $xyz in child support.

Ask about retainer fees due up front, and ask how the billing works. Ask if they use paralegals (cheaper!!!) to do any of the work. Ask about mediation in your area.

I found that I got a good sense of the person's philosophy and personality quickly. It is a crapshoot on whether they are a good atty, but so much of the process depends on how cooperative you and your stbxw are. You need to be an involved and informed participant in the process even though you will have an atty.


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## ronin5573

I called home this moring and said goodmorning to the kids. I havent heard from my wife since last night. Im not going to call for anything or text.


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## Hopefull363

Did you try that dads divorce website. Some attorneys are just blah when it comes to fathers and their rights. Some will really fight for you. Make sure you're comfortable with them.


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## ronin5573

I left work early and got home at 7pm. Everyone was home. She started in and asked that I lost my job. Gezzzzzz. UMMM nope didnt get fired. So we exchanged words and then she decided to take the dog for a walk. I spoke with the kids and they told me it would be better if I moved out. There tired of all the fighting. I told them both that since Ive moved back in I havent raised my voice or faught with mom yet. Your mother is doing all the fighting and if they want it to stop then they should talk to there mother. I was heart wrenched. It was terrible. I wanted to go and ball my eyes out and then leave. Of course I tried to reassure them the best I could and told them that I would always be there and they will allways have to place to go either with there mother or me. So after about 2 hours she came home. I told her that I wanted to talk. So we went in the basement. I told her that what she has been doing since Ive moved back in is very damaging on the children and I asked her to stop. She just says that she hates me living there and she feels that she wants to vomit thnking about comming home. I told here that I am going to live there untill things are final. Dont do it for me because I told here what she says and does to me is irrelivent. But the kids and watching this and it hurts them. I dont know if I got through to her but I hope so. So then I asked her what she wanted in the divorce. In the end basically she wants it all. I told here that Im not walking away from 13 with nothing. Then she wanted to rehash again why she feels the way she does. I told her that to talk about the past is pretty much a waste of time. She isnt happy, and I told her quite frankly that I wasnt either. She said that today she is meeting with a lawyer and she is going to file for divorce and have me served at work. I told her to do that and we can finally get the ball rolling. So I refused to talk about the past and I only came across as someone who is also unhappy and also wants out. So today I will call and set some appointment to meet with lawyers. Hopefully she will settle down now in front of the kids, I dont think so buy I'm hopeful.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I left work early and got home at 7pm. Everyone was home. She started in and asked that I lost my job. Gezzzzzz. UMMM nope didnt get fired. So we exchanged words and then she decided to take the dog for a walk. I spoke with the kids and they told me it would be better if I moved out. There tired of all the fighting. I told them both that since Ive moved back in I havent raised my voice or faught with mom yet. Your mother is doing all the fighting and if they want it to stop then they should talk to there mother. I was heart wrenched. It was terrible. I wanted to go and ball my eyes out and then leave. Of course I tried to reassure them the best I could and told them that I would always be there and they will allways have to place to go either with there mother or me. So after about 2 hours she came home. I told her that I wanted to talk. So we went in the basement. I told her that what she has been doing since Ive moved back in is very damaging on the children and I asked her to stop. She just says that she hates me living there and she feels that she wants to vomit thnking about comming home. I told here that I am going to live there untill things are final. Dont do it for me because I told here what she says and does to me is irrelivent. But the kids and watching this and it hurts them. I dont know if I got through to her but I hope so. So then I asked her what she wanted in the divorce. In the end basically she wants it all. I told here that Im not walking away from 13 with nothing. Then she wanted to rehash again why she feels the way she does. I told her that to talk about the past is pretty much a waste of time. She isnt happy, and I told her quite frankly that I wasnt either. She said that today she is meeting with a lawyer and she is going to file for divorce and have me served at work. I told her to do that and we can finally get the ball rolling. So I refused to talk about the past and I only came across as someone who is also unhappy and also wants out. So today I will call and set some appointment to meet with lawyers. Hopefully she will settle down now in front of the kids, I dont think so buy I'm hopeful.


I think your wife talks a good game. She likes throwing threats and demands your way in hopes it will get you to bend to her will. Until I saw the process server I wouldn't believe a word she says... it's really irrelevant. What's important is what you are doing in the way of getting your ducks in a row. Call someone and make an appointment, get it going right now. At least you have enough $ for a retainer. Nobody will lift a finger without some sort of deposit, and honestly she's got to be worried about where money will be coming from from here on out. She asked about you getting fired because your direct deposit didn't come in. Rather think you're fired than you actually took the money and opened a single account.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> I think your wife talks a good game. She likes throwing threats and demands your way in hopes it will get you to bend to her will. Until I saw the process server I wouldn't believe a word she says... it's really irrelevant. What's important is what you are doing in the way of getting your ducks in a row. Call someone and make an appointment, get it going right now. At least you have enough $ for a retainer. Nobody will lift a finger without some sort of deposit, and honestly she's got to be worried about where money will be coming from from here on out. She asked about you getting fired because your direct deposit didn't come in. Rather think you're fired than you actually took the money and opened a single account.


I dont know if shes serious or not. I have to assume that she is. She said last night that even if the papers are filed that they can be stopped at any time. Its like shes leaving the door open. Like shes waiting for me to do something. I have to be honest I dont know what that is. Its like shes waiting for something to happen. Maybe Im an idiot, But I have no idea what she wants or is thinking. I do know that shes angry and very hostile. Im sure shes a little scared as now I just tell her that im moving on. I would love insite to her thinking but Im just guessig


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## jh52

Ron -- It is my understanding that your wife is correct -- that you can file but always put a stop before they are signed and finalized.

Once again -- find a lawyer and check.


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## warlock07

ronin5573 said:


> I dont know if shes serious or not. I have to assume that she is. She said last night that even if the papers are filed that they can be stopped at any time. Its like shes leaving the door open. Like shes waiting for me to do something. I have to be honest I dont know what that is. Its like shes waiting for something to happen. Maybe Im an idiot, But I have no idea what she wants or is thinking. I do know that shes angry and very hostile. Im sure shes a little scared as now I just tell her that im moving on. I would love insite to her thinking but Im just guessig


You created problems for her affair, didn't you? The OM isn't as available as he was previously or he dumped her


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I dont know if shes serious or not. I have to assume that she is. She said last night that even if the papers are filed that they can be stopped at any time. Its like shes leaving the door open. Like shes waiting for me to do something. I have to be honest I dont know what that is. Its like shes waiting for something to happen. Maybe Im an idiot, But I have no idea what she wants or is thinking. I do know that shes angry and very hostile. Im sure shes a little scared as now I just tell her that im moving on. I would love insite to her thinking but Im just guessig


Nothing is final until the papers are signed. That much is true. Filing them is just getting the ball rolling... nothing is finalized.

And I'll tell you something else. In Illinois you can file and proceed with the divorce with or without her signature on those papers. All the court needs is proof of service, and they can get that from the sheriffs office once served to the individual.


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> You created problems for her affair, didn't you? The OM isn't as available as he was previously or he dumped her


I think your right. She still real hostile about it. I dont think they communicate like they were.


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## A Bit Much

You've hindered her emotional crutch. Too bad. She's forced to manage her life and the state of her marriage all by herself now. That's why she's so hostile. The empowerment she felt when she was carrying on with this guy is gone.


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## Shaggy

You also are hindering her fantasy life - the one where you leave, but continuing paying the bills.


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## ronin5573

Shaggy said:


> You also are hindering her fantasy life - the one where you leave, but continuing paying the bills.


Last night I tried to expain with DIVORCE really means. Shes just so twisted up right now, I dont think anything I says makes sence


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## Conrad&Janie

ronin5573 said:


> Last night I tried to expain with DIVORCE really means. Shes just so twisted up right now, I dont think anything I says makes sence


Quit talking to her.

You are trying to reason with a person you clearly see is completely unreasonable.

You're not stupid. Think about how stupid that is. Are you expecting her to actually hear a word you say?


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## ronin5573

I spoke with some lawyers today and set some appointments up to meet with them. Most wanted a 2500 retainer. I was shocked after calling 5 only 2 called me back. LOL I guess business is good.


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## Conrad&Janie

ronin5573 said:


> I spoke with some lawyers today and set some appointments up to meet with them. Most wanted a 2500 retainer. I was shocked after calling 5 only 2 called me back. LOL I guess business is good.


Divorce is a growth industry.


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## Shaggy

ronin5573 said:


> Last night I tried to expain with DIVORCE really means. Shes just so twisted up right now, I dont think anything I says makes sence


She doesn't want it to make sense, it just is all negatively affecting her fantasy life.

Time to learn you are talking to a brick wall and to stop trying,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

She called and said she meet with her lawyer. She filed for divorce and I will be served at work in 3 days. After speaking with her lawyer, she belives that she will get child support ... no problem there..... and she will also get matiance for the next 10 years. She also wants the house and everything in it. I just said ok and I have a month to respond. On thursday Im meeting with 2 lawyers and I will have to retain one.


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## jmsclayton

ronin5573

It is very important you stay in contact with your kids even if she tries to deny and keep you from it. And remind the kids you are not going to pit them against you and her. The kids need you to be loving and giving regardless of what happens. Trust me they know you care etc will remember the parent that cares more than the one that doesnt. Remember her childhood is playing havoc with her choices and so that is why she is not handling this in a healthy way like some couples do. Remember she will realize after the fact that it wasnt a good thing like she thinks it is at this point. TI is never greener on the other side of the fence. There is a title of a movie like that that has Cary Grant in it. 

Try to get joint custody if she fights for custody. compromise so that you can still have contact with the kids. If she fights for full custody and you do -the court will decide. That is not what you want. Sorry for no caps. My mind goes faster than my hands. 

Divorce and separation is for reconciliation. She needs to see what her choices are by being separated and decide if that is what she thinks will work. Sometimes spouses have to see what it is like without the other. Dont let your kids be a go between. 

She is dealing with alot of feel out of control feelings and feel like she is losing even though in some ways she is. She is trying to regain control in some form and doing that is by what she is doing with you-The key is to show her that it is not about control. She maybe repeating a pattern from her childhood and or what her parents did. Adults tend to repeat what parents did. So try to keep that in mind as you work to resolve the whatever it is called. 

The key is to let it all roll off of you like water off of a ducks back. the more you do the easier it gets to let it go. Memorize that

Sometimes women have alot of emotions to deal with in the midst o fsomething like this. She is weighing the pros and cons. She is struggling to know what she wants. She doesnt know what she wants. Becuase of the cut off with the other person-she is strugglign through some emotions that come with separating from someone. It filled an emotional need. 

If she is truly sincere in wanting it to work she would seek help and counseling. It may take months after the divorce for her to realize -whatever

Also if she has never been on her own-she is scared to live on her own. If she got married among other factors to be afraid to live alone-that is why she among other things is asking for alot. I still wonder if her parents did the same. Becuase usually children like her are repeating what the parents did. She may have thought this was normal if her father did it alot. 

She doesnt realize that some men do not tolerate another man-and it is not good for the marriage. She is struggling. To know what she wants. 

Keep posted. I just lost my train of thought. 

Judith

That is why marital relationship between a couple is needed before children come along.


----------



## the guy

Hopefully the withdrawals from the OM subside and she sees what kind of enviorment she is creating and stops with all the crap infront of the kids.

You sound really grounded and I'm sure once this part of your life has passed you will have a happy a fruitful life with your kids.


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## aug

Decide what's fair for you. Stick to it. Ask for more; use it as room for negotiation.

Dont worry about what she wants now. She has her own professional (lawyer) advising her. You need to negotiate this hard because what you get now is set for a very long time. Once set, it's very very hard to change.

Make sure your lawyer is actually fighting to get the most for you.


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## EleGirl

Why would she get 10 years of spousal support? You have only been married for 13 years. Where do you live? state/country? Just curious.


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## Thor

EleGirl said:


> Why would she get 10 years of spousal support? You have only been married for 13 years. Where do you live? state/country? Just curious.


In my state it is 1:1. 13 years of marriage gets 13 years of alimony. 20 years of marriage gets _lifetime_ alimony. Considering the young age many locals (Mormons) get married, a divorce at 20 years could result in 40 years of alimony!


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## ronin5573

jmsclayton said:


> ronin5573
> 
> It is very important you stay in contact with your kids even if she tries to deny and keep you from it. And remind the kids you are not going to pit them against you and her. The kids need you to be loving and giving regardless of what happens. Trust me they know you care etc will remember the parent that cares more than the one that doesnt. Remember her childhood is playing havoc with her choices and so that is why she is not handling this in a healthy way like some couples do. Remember she will realize after the fact that it wasnt a good thing like she thinks it is at this point. TI is never greener on the other side of the fence. There is a title of a movie like that that has Cary Grant in it.
> 
> Try to get joint custody if she fights for custody. compromise so that you can still have contact with the kids. If she fights for full custody and you do -the court will decide. That is not what you want. Sorry for no caps. My mind goes faster than my hands.
> 
> Divorce and separation is for reconciliation. She needs to see what her choices are by being separated and decide if that is what she thinks will work. Sometimes spouses have to see what it is like without the other. Dont let your kids be a go between.
> 
> She is dealing with alot of feel out of control feelings and feel like she is losing even though in some ways she is. She is trying to regain control in some form and doing that is by what she is doing with you-The key is to show her that it is not about control. She maybe repeating a pattern from her childhood and or what her parents did. Adults tend to repeat what parents did. So try to keep that in mind as you work to resolve the whatever it is called.
> 
> The key is to let it all roll off of you like water off of a ducks back. the more you do the easier it gets to let it go. Memorize that
> 
> Sometimes women have alot of emotions to deal with in the midst o fsomething like this. She is weighing the pros and cons. She is struggling to know what she wants. She doesnt know what she wants. Becuase of the cut off with the other person-she is strugglign through some emotions that come with separating from someone. It filled an emotional need.
> 
> If she is truly sincere in wanting it to work she would seek help and counseling. It may take months after the divorce for her to realize -whatever
> 
> Also if she has never been on her own-she is scared to live on her own. If she got married among other factors to be afraid to live alone-that is why she among other things is asking for alot. I still wonder if her parents did the same. Becuase usually children like her are repeating what the parents did. She may have thought this was normal if her father did it alot.
> 
> She doesnt realize that some men do not tolerate another man-and it is not good for the marriage. She is struggling. To know what she wants.
> 
> Keep posted. I just lost my train of thought.
> 
> Judith
> 
> That is why marital relationship between a couple is needed before children come along.


Wow sound like you know us. Most of what you have said is pretty right on. He childhood was filled with fighting and her father cheated on her mother many times. Im doing my very best to cope and will stay the course as far as the children are concerned. They need to understand through all the waves Im an anchor.


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## ronin5573

Today is get served with divorce papers day. Im meeting with another lawyer this morning. Last night she came home early and I worked till noon. So we were all here. She made dinner and then my daughter asked me to dinner. So I went. My stbxw said that if im eating then she isnt. So me and kids ate and then I half assed cleaned up. Then my wife came downstairs and ate her dinner. After me and kids went for a bike ride and then came home. My sons friend called and setup a sleep over. So I called the other mom and set it all up. So both my kids spent the night at a friends house. I droped them off at 7:30. At 7:45 my wife said that she was going out. I didnt respond. She didnt get home till 3 am. I didnt go upstairs, I just sayed in the basement and went back to sleep. She then got up and left for work at 7am. I just kept sleeping. Kids will be home by 9 and we will do breakfast and then its off to work for me once the babysitter gets here.


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## ronin5573

Well .. its 3:30 and no process server yet. I did retain a lawyer this morning. I actually paid his retainer on our joint checking account. Im sure she will go ape poo poo but hey ... she used the joint account for her lawyer. I think I feel a little better now that I have a lawyer and we spoke how all this could roll out.


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## Shaggy

Uh if you are getting D take half the joint account now and move it. You can now longer trust her and need to protect your money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

Shaggy said:


> Uh if you are getting D take half the joint account now and move it. You can now longer trust her and need to protect your money.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We have already split up the bulk of the cash. What is left will be for the day to day financial aspects of the household. Fact is I dont trust her anymore and I need to remember that. But we still have bills and kids and responsibilities. So thats why there is a little money left. Yesterday went by and no process servers showed up. Maybe on Monday.


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## ronin5573

She just called. The laywer retainer money hit today and she went through the roof. I think she in her mind had that money allocated to go camping with the kids next weekend. So she found out and went balastic. She was yelling so loud that I could barley understand her. I told her that she used the joint account for her lawyer and that her lawyer said it was joint funds. So I told her that I must be ok if I did the same. So Im at work and didnt feel the need to be her punching bag today so I told her that I had to get back to work and If she wished we could speak more about it later. I try not to let her outbursts affect me. but I really do get stressed out. Looks like this divorce is going to get messy. She is still fighting for control and isnt letting up a bit. Stay the course


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## Hopefull363

I guess she didn't understand what joint meant. She thought it meant hers. Boy is she having control issues. Like you said stay the course. This must be so hard for you. But we are here for you. They'll be a bright side when you look back. Hang in there.


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## anchorwatch

The D is going ahead and the lawyers are taking charge. Isn't that what she wants? She knows it is not going to happen tomorrow. If she just waits she'll get the D.

Control? Resentment? This is a lot of anger. She really isn't rational, is she? What do you think all the outburst are about?

I feel bad for your children. Can you speak to her parents or someone about the outburst. Maybe they could intervene and speak to her, on behalf of the children.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> The D is going ahead and the lawyers are taking charge. Isn't that what she wants? She knows it is not going to happen tomorrow. If she just waits she'll get the D.
> 
> Control? Resentment? This is a lot of anger. She really isn't rational, is she? What do you think all the outburst are about?
> 
> I feel bad for your children. Can you speak to her parents or someone about the outburst. Maybe they could intervene and speak to her, on behalf of the children.


I really dont know why she so mad. I all but given up trying to understand. Maybe I broke up her affair, maybe she dealing with the reality of the situation, maybe she wasnt thinking it would go this far. She has been in control for a long time and now that she isnt ... its like she doesnt know what to do other then lash out. She figured in her mind that We would use the same lawyer.. her lawyer is also a arbitrator as well.. we would split is all 50 50 and then sign up and move on. I dont feel comfortable with that as she is asking for big time maintiance. 
I would like to use home equity as a buy out for her waiving maintiance. It would be better for her to keep the house with the kids. Truth be told ... I dont think I would like to live in it anymore. Too much history I have spoke with her parents weeks ago. They already knew she wanted a divorce and they suggested years ago she talk to a theripist. She has always refused.


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## warlock07

> I really dont know why she so mad.


She lost her lover because of you. This is common theme among cheaters. They get very angry at the BS for being the reason their affair ended. This also tells you the level of attachment they had for one another. Stop trying to understand her behavior.


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## anchorwatch

If the affair hasn't ended, you may have made it more difficult for them to carry on. Can you verify the condition of the affair?


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## Hopefull363

Some people just need someone to blame because they can't accept any themselves. She's blaming everything on you instead of accepting her part in the failed marriage. Therefore all her anger goes to you.

Don't fall for it.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> If the affair hasn't ended, you may have made it more difficult for them to carry on. Can you verify the condition of the affair?


I dont really know. I think it might be deep underground if it is. The omw called me last week friday so Im sure hes getting pressure from both sides. I will check the phone bill in another 10 days to see if the calls continue. But he may have bought her a prepaid phone at this point.


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## ronin5573

She got home with the kids at 12:30 am this morning. So it would appear that she has another male friend. I think I broke up the affair but she has already moved on to someone else. She was with him last night with our kids and he had his kids with him too. This morning my stbxw got up and 6 am then left the house at 7am. She came downstairs to tell me she was leaving. I think all she really wanted to do was to tell me she was going to spend the day with her new friend. I just told her that what she does alone is her business and is no longer my concern but I do want to know where the kids are at all times. Since the kids are with me today then I dont really care what she does. I dont think that was the responce that she was looking for. She wanted to go into other stuff but I cut her right off and said the past is the past and I dont want discuss it any further. I said that she wants a divorce and so do I so lets just get it done and fast as we can. Then I told her to go as I didnt want to talk anymore.


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## jh52

Well done !!


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## anchorwatch

She did flaunt her plans today to hurt you. Good interaction, not letting her bait you into an argument. Now you know, by moving back, it kept her new friend out of the house. 

Your right to know about the children's interaction with him too. You don't know him. Who is he, whats his background/history? You do have a say if you want your children to interact with him or not. What type of morals can a man have that gets involved with a married woman. Let your lawyer know about it too.

This isn't getting any easier, is it? Again, watch your health.


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## keko

Next time give her 20 bucks for gas money, the longer she spends her time without the kids, with her new boyfriend the more distracted she'll get. This way the divorce will get done quicker and you'll get more out of it.


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## jh52

Keko -- Welcome back !!


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## keko

jh52 said:


> Keko -- Welcome back !!




Hopefully I can stay longer then a month this time.


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## ronin5573

So yesterday My stbxw left at 7:30 am. The kids slept in till 9:30. I so worried about the kids. She is running then into the ground. She is filling my daughters head with so much crap that I cant even keep up with it all. That is and is going to be a ongoing strugggle. I spent all sunday with them. We went and seen a movie and then had a cook out at my moms house. My mom could instantly tell that my daughter was different. She told me that she didnt sleep all night as she is worried about the kids. Man .. come to think of it I dont think Ive slept yet either. So my stbxw came home at about 1 am. The kids had a hard time falling a sleep because they were worried about her. So I think the original affair had ended now but it didnt take her very long to move on to someone else. I guess shes like a monkey. she didnt take her hand off one branch untill she had a firm grasp on the next. I try not to think about what is going on over there as I can only imagine what. I know that I should put it out of my mind. easier said then done. This morning I woke up, showered and then got ready for work. I went up stairs and kissed the kids goodby. Then were both sleeping. Then went downstairs to leave. She came to the door and asked how I was. I just said fine. She then asked if the kids and I had a good day. I just said we had a great day and then walked out the door and left. I think she wanted to tell me what a great day she had yesterday with her new boyfriend but I didnt want to hear about it. It may be easier to deal with everything when we have very limited contact. I did feel like yesterday she did a 180 on me, but Im going to keep doing what im doing, be there for the kids and reassure them and try to keep myself strong.


----------



## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> So yesterday My stbxw left at 7:30 am. The kids slept in till 9:30. I so worried about the kids. She is running then into the ground. She is filling my daughters head with so much crap that I cant even keep up with it all. That is and is going to be a ongoing strugggle. I spent all sunday with them. We went and seen a movie and then had a cook out at my moms house. My mom could instantly tell that my daughter was different. She told me that she didnt sleep all night as she is worried about the kids. Man .. come to think of it I dont think Ive slept yet either. So my stbxw came home at about 1 am. The kids had a hard time falling a sleep because they were worried about her. So I think the original affair had ended now but it didnt take her very long to move on to someone else. I guess shes like a monkey. she didnt take her hand off one branch untill she had a firm grasp on the next. I try not to think about what is going on over there as I can only imagine what. I know that I should put it out of my mind. easier said then done. This morning I woke up, showered and then got ready for work. I went up stairs and kissed the kids goodby. Then were both sleeping. Then went downstairs to leave. She came to the door and asked how I was. I just said fine. She then asked if the kids and I had a good day. I just said we had a great day and then walked out the door and left. I think she wanted to tell me what a great day she had yesterday with her new boyfriend but I didnt want to hear about it. It may be easier to deal with everything when we have very limited contact. I did feel like yesterday she did a 180 on me, but Im going to keep doing what im doing, be there for the kids and reassure them and try to keep myself strong.


Actually my friend you did a 180 on her yesterday and today. Just by talking about the kids in a civil tone and nothing else.

Short one word answers -- keep it up.

It's tough but you have come a long way in a very short time. You may not realize this -- that's why I said it. 

Good luck --


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## keko

Ronin, go over to the dadsdivorce.com and sign up to their forums. Read as much as you can on what to expect from your nutjob and how to counter it. As a husband/father the odds will be against you in divorce court so you will need every help you can get.

If she ever gets physically violent with you and you can capture it on the recorder, do call 911 on her and have her arrested. This will have her removed from your house and she can no longer rub her affairs on your face.


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## ronin5573

She just called. I dont think she liked me walking away from here in the middle of her conversation this morning. She wanted to talk about property division. She says that we can come to an agreement without the lawyers sucking up billable hours. I agreed with her but told her that Im at work right now and there would be time to talk about it later. She insisted because she wanted to know. I told her once again that I cant do it now but there would be time to speak. Then said good morning to the kids and back to work. I cant let my job slip because of all of this.


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## keko

Tell her to email you her proposal and you'll think about it. Don't negotiate face to face, make sure every conversation is through written methods(email/text...).

You have the voice recorder on yourself 24/7 correct? You're saving its backups on a computer too?


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Tell her to email you her proposal and you'll think about it. Don't negotiate face to face, make sure every conversation is through written methods(email/text...).
> 
> You have the voice recorder on yourself 24/7 correct? You're saving its backups on a computer too?


The no nogiciations face to face is a very good way to go. I think I will try to get her to do that. I do keep a recording of most interactions.


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## Totally Lost

While I understand the need and desire to save money on lawyers fees, it's going to take a lawyer to get this done anyway. 

Honestly, my advice is that she needs her own attorney and you need yours. You absolutely want to make sure you are NOT getting screwed. And, do NOT make the mistake I did and sign ANYTHING WHATSOEVER without reading it all the way through first.

Plus, quite honestly, since she started all this and wants the divorce, you can negotiate for HER to pay all legal fees because this wasn't your idea to begin with.

YOU are in control my friend. Drive the train, but do NOT let her derail it.


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## Shaggy

Her wanting to avoid the lawyers may also be her knowing she is going to loose if you have professional help on your side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopefull363

How old are your children? You may want to see a counselor your self for a couple of sessions. Maybe the counselor can help you to communicate with the children that can undermine the damage your wife is causing them. I suggested you go to the counselor because I'm assuming your wife won't let you take the children to one.

I was 12 years old when my mother put me in the middle of an affair she was having on my father. I'm not saying that your wife is doing this but divorce alone can be hard on children. What my mother did to me was very damaging to me. Please find yourself a cut throat attorney that's going to get you everything you can. I haven't been to the dadsdivorce website because I'm not a dad. But that sounds like a great place for you to start.


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> How old are your children? You may want to see a counselor your self for a couple of sessions. Maybe the counselor can help you to communicate with the children that can undermine the damage your wife is causing them. I suggested you go to the counselor because I'm assuming your wife won't let you take the children to one.
> 
> I was 12 years old when my mother put me in the middle of an affair she was having on my father. I'm not saying that your wife is doing this but divorce alone can be hard on children. What my mother did to me was very damaging to me. Please find yourself a cut throat attorney that's going to get you everything you can. I haven't been to the dadsdivorce website because I'm not a dad. But that sounds like a great place for you to start.


My kids are 9 and 6 years old. Funny you say this as I was speaking with my mother this mornind and I do think some counseling is in order.


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## hope1916

Ronin,

I find it very sad that you left your wife alone and then were surprised that she found someone else who could give her the attention she needed. I don't believe in affairs, emotional or sexual, but I can fully understand where she was. 

It is only through sheer willful decision on my part to not talk with any man who may show even the slightest interest that would lead me into any kind of affair. My dh worked long hours and when he came home he fell asleep on the couch. After so long you become desperate for any kind of attention, love or affection.

I'm truly sorry that your wife did not do everything in her power to make sure her allegiance wasn't moved to another man ... but I can understand. You are in pain now, but have you thought of the pain she might have been feeling living under the same roof with a man who did not have time for her?


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## rks1

ronin5573 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 13 years and dated 2 years before. I am 39 and so is she. We have 2 children *ages 11 and 7.*





ronin5573 said:


> *My kids are 9 and 6 years old. * Funny you say this as I was speaking with my mother this mornind and I do think some counseling is in order.


:scratchhead:


----------



## ronin5573

hope1916 said:


> Ronin,
> 
> I find it very sad that you left your wife alone and then were surprised that she found someone else who could give her the attention she needed. I don't believe in affairs, emotional or sexual, but I can fully understand where she was.
> 
> It is only through sheer willful decision on my part to not talk with any man who may show even the slightest interest that would lead me into any kind of affair. My dh worked long hours and when he came home he fell asleep on the couch. After so long you become desperate for any kind of attention, love or affection.
> 
> I'm truly sorry that your wife did not do everything in her power to make sure her allegiance wasn't moved to another man ... but I can understand. You are in pain now, but have you thought of the pain she might have been feeling living under the same roof with a man who did not have time for her?


I do see your perspective that you feel I left my wife alone. But many things led up to that. You have to understand that I was also left alone. I do agree with you that for awhile I was emotionally unavailable. But that was after the walls went up. Everyone has the fantasy of making big money. The difference between them and me is I understand the level of commitment that is needed to do that. I didnt work a 9 to 5. It was more like a 8am till 11 pm. When I had some time off, was I tired, sure was. My job is long and stressful but I took pride that I was providing from my family. My wife and kids have never wanted for anything. We did talk in years past about the hours and the fact that she sometimes felt like a single mother. I told her I had many options for other jobs, however none of them would replace the income. She at that point wasnt willing to take a standard of living change. So I kept at it. In retrospect that was poor decision as far as the marriage is concerned. Fact is I wasnt there for many things do to work. She did feel alone. Her feeling alone led to her feeling that I wasnt there so she created a life without me in it. Then after that I started to resent her for pushing me out of her life. I was shut out emotionally, sexually and just about everyother way. I do think that years ago we could have worked it out, but not now. I do see your point that its natuaral for her to find emotional or sexual support elsewhere. But I never did. I never went outside of our marriage even in my most loney, darkest hours. I did find other things to get me through it. But they were all constructive Like learning to play a musical instrument. Which created its own share of problems. IE less time with her. But in the end it was and is her decision to cheat. She made that decision on her own. I can understand why but that doesnt mean that its OK. She could have tried to work on the relashionship insted of finding support from bad people that only wanted sex. I do understand that she was in pain. I was too. But in a marriage that is something that needed to worked on together, not with anyone else outside of our marriage with there own selfish need being filled. It wasnt in her boyfriend best interest to get us back together. So I have given much thought about her living in the same house with a man that wasnt there for her, I just dont think she has given it the same thought about how I felt. It is in fact a 2 lane road.


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## aug

Good catch rks1.

ronin5573, that's interesting about your kids. Very interesting.


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## ronin5573

aug said:


> Good catch rks1.
> 
> ronin5573, that's interesting about your kids. Very interesting.


Well Im not great with dates... Phone numbers either


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Well Im not great with dates... Phone numbers either


Dates are one thing, knowing how old your kids are (if you're involved with them as you claim) is another.

I don't know any dads who don't know how old their own kids are, UNLESS they don't know them or are sperm donor types (uninvolved).


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Dates are one thing, knowing how old your kids are (if you're involved with them as you claim) is another.
> 
> I don't know any dads who don't know how old their own kids are, UNLESS they don't know them or are sperm donor types (uninvolved).


Sorry that you feel that way


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## Wanting1

My husband sucks at remembering our kids ages. He will guess in the right ball park, but be off by a year (or sometimes even 2) in either direction if he doesn't stop and do the math. And he is very involved in their lives. He just doesn't spend time keeping the numbers right in his head.


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## A Bit Much

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> My husband sucks at remembering our kids ages. He will guess in the right ball park, but be off by a year (or sometimes even 2) in either direction if he doesn't stop and do the math. And he is very involved in their lives. He just doesn't spend time keeping the numbers right in his head.


I did say *I *didn't know anyone that did that.


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## ronin5573

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> My husband sucks at remembering our kids ages. He will guess in the right ball park, but be off by a year (or sometimes even 2) in either direction if he doesn't stop and do the math. And he is very involved in their lives. He just doesn't spend time keeping the numbers right in his head.


Thanks for that. Being an egghead doesnt make a bad father. Also as I write these posts, my mind usually works faster then my keyboard fingers.


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## Hopefull363

Do you think your wife will allow you to take them to counseling? I hope so, but if not go yourself so at least you'll have the proper advice as to what to say to them about the situation. I really hope your wife is not sharing to much information with them.


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> Do you think your wife will allow you to take them to counseling? I hope so, but if not go yourself so at least you'll have the proper advice as to what to say to them about the situation. I really hope your wife is not sharing to much information with them.


I tried to get my wife to goto counseling for 3 years. In the last month she went twice. It didnt go very well. She at that point was done so there wasnt going to be progress. I did go again after that last wendsday to get information on how to handle the kids. To be totally honest he likes to listen and is pretty shy on offering advise. I kept asking questions about how to handle the kids and all he said was it sounded to him like I was saying the right things. I guess I didnt really get much out of it either. I do have another appointment scheduled for tommorow night but I am not too sure Im going.


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## keko

Cancel it, sounds like he's only in it for your $$.


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## ladybird

A Bit Much said:


> Dates are one thing, knowing how old your kids are (if you're involved with them as you claim) is another.
> 
> I don't know any dads who don't know how old their own kids are, UNLESS they don't know them or are sperm donor types (uninvolved).


My H is horrible at dates.. Most of the time he doesn't even know how old he is or his kids lol. So understandable.


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## Hopefull363

Try to find a family counselor. Even if just you go they will have more insight on how to handle the kids.


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## Prodigal

ronin - I have been following your post from the beginning. It is very interesting to me, probably because you manned-up so quickly, and got a rational hold on what appears to be a somewhat irrational situation.

I guess I just want to be here to support you in this extremely difficult period of your life. You obviously love your children. You are taking a boatload of crap from the stbxw and maintaining your dignity.

Whew! Lots of anger and resentment are bound to build up when you have to suck up so much garbage from the wife.

Just keep up with the IC. Stand strong. You are staying the course and protecting your children the best you can. Keep posting. I want to know how this situation plays out.

And I am very sorry you have to endure this situation.


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## Prodigal

P.S. - Find another counselor; one who is more proactive. You are paying to get professional advice regarding your situation. I agree w/Hopefull 100% on this one. Someone who will offer sound advice and guidance, not just someone who sits there and listens and says "uh-huh" is not what you need!


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## ronin5573

Prodigal said:


> P.S. - Find another counselor; one who is more proactive. You are paying to get professional advice regarding your situation. I agree w/Hopefull 100% on this one. Someone who will offer sound advice and guidance, not just someone who sits there and listens and says "uh-huh" is not what you need!


I think the biggest problem is I just dont like him. On paper hes all there DR and all. My insurance covers all but 30 bucks. So maybe I will look into a different one. Like all Doctors they all have personalities and maybe we just dont click. Thank you again for you support. It has been invaluable


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## ronin5573

Today my stbxw is taking the kids camping with my cousins family. This has been planned for months. The wife and I didnt really speak much yesterday which is good. They will leave at noon today and will not be back till sometime last Sunday. I still havent been served with divorce papers yet. So last tuesday she filed and today is thursday. I though it would be faster then 9 days. How long does it take?


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## ronin5573

Kids are with my wife camping till late sunday night. Friday 7pm and havent been served yet. Man I just want to get the ball rolling and it doesnt seem that I can until I get served.


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## Hopefull363

She's probably waiting till the last minute.


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> She's probably waiting till the last minute.


I know that I have 30 days to respond. 30 days from being served or 30 days from the file date?


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## ronin5573

I spoke with the kids this morning. My wife gave them her phone so that they could call. They are all camping and cell service is bad there. My daughter cell phone wont work but wifes does. I havent spoke with stbxw since wendsday. THey wont be home till late sunday. Im going to leave work early today and go out with my brother in law. Maybe going out and tring to have a good time will take my mind off things.


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## anchorwatch

Seems like your families are very intertwined. That's got to be tough. You'll get through it. During the waiting periods, you very much need to do things to get your mind off it. Even if its just a few hours. Get some hard gym time in. Get a run in. Going out for a few hours is good too. Vent with a close friend or family member. Get some you time, let her watch the kids, and you get out.


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## Hopefull363

That's a question for your attorney. I know in NY for Family Court you have to be served X amount of days before the court date. For divorce I'm not really sure. Are you sure she filed? She could just be jerking you around by saying she filed.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Seems like your families are very intertwined. That's got to be tough. You'll get through it. During the waiting periods, you very much need to do things to get your mind off it. Even if its just a few hours. Get some hard gym time in. Get a run in. Going out for a few hours is good too. Vent with a close friend or family member. Get some you time, let her watch the kids, and you get out.


My wife is close with my 2 cousins and my aunt. Everyone else is pretty much done with her at this point. Im going away in a few hours and am hopeful to get my mind off it. Exercise seems to really help a lot. Also I nice glass of wine before bed has become relaxing.


----------



## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> That's a question for your attorney. I know in NY for Family Court you have to be served X amount of days before the court date. For divorce I'm not really sure. Are you sure she filed? She could just be jerking you around by saying she filed.


I positive she filed. I seen the check go through the joint account at my bank. I also told her on Wendsday that I havent been served yet. She told me I was bull ****ting her, or was ducking the process server. She must have called her attourney on Thursday morning as she recieved an email from her attourneys paralegal inquiring about the process server. I dont really know if she filed or not and wont know untill I get served, but Im almost positive that she did


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## keko

Install a keylogger on her computer and read up on what she's planning. Also go through her room/stuff.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Install a keylogger on her computer and read up on what she's planning. Also go through her room/stuff.


I dont think Im going to spy at all anymore. Part of the 180 is no spying. It isnt doing me any good. I do look around and make sure things havent disapeared. The only reason I seen the email from her lawyer is we have both of our accounts setup to use outlook. So when i recieve mail both of our mail comes in. I think she is using a prepaid cell phone now as she hasent used any minuites in a week. She is probible afraid I will call the OTHER new boyfriend are screw up that relashionship as well. So next week Im going to give her the choice either she moves her cell phone to her own account or Im going to cancil service. I dont know what she planning and furthermore I have to stop worring about it. She is all venom


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## ronin5573

I was just served by a process server at 200 at saturday.


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## anchorwatch

Let your counselor know.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Let your counselor know.


I already emailed him a copy of it all. Says the court date in in October ?????


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## anchorwatch

It's just one piece of paper in the process. It is going to take a long time, not days, more like a year. That's why you need to do things to keep your stress levels down, like the 180. Get out tonight and try to forget for a bit.


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## ronin5573

Went out this weekend and had a good time. I got home about 5:30 and they were back from the camping trip. By 6pm my wife left and I didnt ask where she was going. After she was gone my son told me she was going out to dinner with John. John is her new boyfriend. So we just hung out and watched a movie and then went to bed about 9. The kids were all tired from the camping trip. My stbxw got home at 1am. I herd her come in. This morning I got up and kissed the kids goodby and left for work. I didnt see her at all. Its like everyday is a new anventure with this girl. She is acting like a teenager. To be totally honest I dont know where she is finding the energy to keep going at this pace. I have been wondering if she was on some kind of drug, but I havent seen anything to that effect.


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## anchorwatch

The new experience with 'John' or someone new is her drug. She's back to the thrill of the chase, the attention, knowing she can still turn a head. You remember when you dated new women, the excitement, the infatuation. Can she keep it up, will it last, who knows? 
Relationships born of affairs don't have a high probability at success. That's because the of the personality flaws in the AP's themselves. They couldn't deal with or resolve the problems in their last relationship. So instead of ending it first, they leave their mess behind and run to the next for relief. Then the blame is all on their EX and they themselves were only the victim. Any rationalization that they had a part would bring the guilt and the admission it could have been done differently. That's why she has such hatred for you, to justify her actions. 

Just keep up the 180, you job is to think about you and your kids. She is not your concern anymore. You will come out on top and better for it.


----------



## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> The new experience with 'John' or someone new is her drug. She's back to the thrill of the chase, the attention, knowing she can still turn a head. You remember when you dated new women, the excitement, the infatuation. Can she keep it up, will it last, who knows?
> Relationships born of affairs don't have a high probability at success. That's because the of the personality flaws in the AP's themselves. They couldn't deal with or resolve the problems in their last relationship. So instead of ending it first, they leave their mess behind and run to the next for relief. Then the blame is all on their EX and they themselves were only the victim. Any rationalization that they had a part would bring the guilt and the admission it could have been done differently. That's why she has such hatred for you, to justify her actions.
> 
> Just keep up the 180, you job is to think about you and your kids. She is not your concern anymore. You will come out on top and better for it.


I understand all of that. It doesnt make it any easier but your right. Im going to stay the course and do my best


----------



## turnera

Why isn't she moving out, again? After all, you are paying for everything, right?


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Why isn't she moving out, again? After all, you are paying for everything, right?


At this point Im paying the bills. I dont give her a cent. Her goal is to get me to move out and she is doing everything in her power to get me to leave. Ive told her many times to leave but she wont. I dont know if she has anywhere to go. I dont know the extent of her new relashionship with John. Its a bad situation for me. Its isnt that shes moving on, I think she has already moved on a while ago. She is trying to jump from me to someone else as fast as she can. Maybe its a security thing or a selfesteem thing. I dont know and I do my utmost to not think aobut it. Easier said then done but there is nothing there for me at this point.


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## keko

Talk to your lawyer and try to get the exclusive use of the marital home, that should kick her out right away.

You're keeping the VAR running 24/7 correct? You never know when it'll come in handy.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Talk to your lawyer and try to get the exclusive use of the marital home, that should kick her out right away.
> 
> You're keeping the VAR running 24/7 correct? You never know when it'll come in handy.


I dont really see her all too much. She is uncomfortable when I'm there. She was nice yesterday for the 20 mins she was there. Nice is almost worse then when shes acting like a nut. But Im not going to leave. I do record most conversations that we have.


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## warlock07

She might be blindsiding John with half truths or lies as well. Write him a letter explaining the situation and not complicate things until divorce


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## A Bit Much

warlock07 said:


> She might be blindsiding John with half truths or lies as well. Write him a letter explaining the situation and not complicate things until divorce


I think a better investment of time would be spent trying to get her out of the house. She wants to date? Fine. Do it somewhere else, not in front of the kids.


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> She might be blindsiding John with half truths or lies as well. Write him a letter explaining the situation and not complicate things until divorce


Oh I pretty much positive she tells everyone pretty bad things about me. LOL I only know Johns first name I don't really no anything else. Im letting her go and she is free to do what ever she likes. I always want to know where the kids are but when she goes off on her own, thats her business. The poor guy prolly wont see it comming


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> I think a better investment of time would be spent trying to get her out of the house. She wants to date? Fine. Do it somewhere else, not in front of the kids.


Unless she gets physical with me, she isnt going to leave. She has been openly going to this guys house sometimes with the kids. I totally bothers me that I dont know who he is, after all my kids are there. I truly hope she uses common sence when the kids are with her ..... but who really knows. I spoke to my lawyer and there is nothing I can do about it, unless she attacks me or one of the kids. She truly believes that she is a great mother. And she is doing a lot of fun things with them this summer but thats not what Im talking about .. I dont think she is giving them the emotional support they need right now. And believe me .. they need it. She is totally gone as a wife and not putting the kids first, she is putting herself. She is being wreckless and there isnt much I can do about it. I try to take the kids whenever I can and she is free to do whatever she wants.


----------



## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Unless she gets physical with me, she isnt going to leave. She has been openly going to this guys house sometimes with the kids. I totally bothers me that I dont know who he is, after all my kids are there. I truly hope she uses common sence when the kids are with her ..... but who really knows. I spoke to my lawyer and there is nothing I can do about it, unless she attacks me or one of the kids. She truly believes that she is a great mother. And she is doing a lot of fun things with them this summer but thats not what Im talking about .. I dont think she is giving them the emotional support they need right now. And believe me .. they need it. She is totally gone as a wife and not putting the kids first, she is putting herself. She is being wreckless and there isnt much I can do about it. I try to take the kids whenever I can and she is free to do whatever she wants.


I suppose the physical split will come after the final divorce settlement is made. She's leaching off of you at this point if you're paying the mortgage. This arrangement is the main reason people put marital property up for sale. 

And of course she's not supporting her kids emotionally. No time for it. It's all about her needs right now... if she really was concerned about her kids well being, she wouldn't be running around with other guys like she is.


----------



## turnera

Are you having something in your paperwork that will preclude her bringing men around your kids?


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## Hopefull363

And counseling for the kids. It has to be confusing for them to be along with Mom and every Tom, **** and Harry she's with, while living with Dad


----------



## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> And counseling for the kids. It has to be confusing for them to be along with Mom and every Tom, **** and Harry she's with, while living with Dad


I can only imagine how they feel. Counseling will be a must


----------



## A Bit Much

No time like the present for counseling. Start looking now, get them in asap. She's not going to stop what she's doing to do it.


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## warlock07

No men around kids until divorce. Ask her to think what it would do for the kids


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> No men around kids until divorce. Ask her to think what it would do for the kids


I dont think she thinking about anyone except herself.


----------



## keko

Can you trick her into attacking you?

A domestic violence charge on her would be a jackpot.


----------



## Prodigal

I do not advocate physical abuse of any kind in a marriage; however, I have to give creedance to what keko is saying. No, I don't think you have to somehow manipulate the situation so your wife slugs you, but if she threatens you by shaking her fist in your face, that is legally considered a threat to your physical safety. Honest. Heck, if she throws a dish in your direction, that would suffice. I'm all for keeping things quiet on the homefront for the sake of the children. 

Any chance you could have wifey followed by a P.I.? Adultery doesn't have to be grounds for divorce; however, it can speed things up and certainly give you a BIG bargaining chip when it comes to how often you have your children. 

The sad thing is that your kids are being exposed to their mother's cheating. I find that reprehensible. I believe as your children reach adulthood, they aren't going to feel the warm fuzzies for dear old mom.


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## ronin5573

So today I have another long day at work. My stbxw is off today and is spending the day with the kids and her new boyfriend. She called me this morning as I didnt see her before I left for work. She called to tell me she was sorry that she didnt love me. Im not sure why she would even say that. So I told her that she didnt owe me any explanition. The marriage wasnt good for either of us and its time to end it. She did agree. Then she tried to expain herself but I really didnt want to rehash the past. Im more concerned about the future.... my future without her. I conveyed content and happiness to her. I did bring up that I didnt think she was being very good to the kids as far and bringing them around new boyfriends and such. She just couldnt hear it. She is taking them a lot of places but she isnt giving them the emotional support that they really need right now. Hopefully she will start to see that but in the mean time I will give them that support.


----------



## Prodigal

ronin5573 said:


> She called to tell me she was sorry that she didnt love me. Im not sure why she would even say that.
> 
> Then she tried to expain herself but I really didnt want to rehash the past. ... I conveyed content and happiness to her. I did bring up that I didnt think she was being very good to the kids as far and bringing them around new boyfriends and such. She just couldnt hear it.


Yep, definitely sounds like a case of the "guilts" to me. She wants to explain herself, but doesn't seem to give a good cahoot as to potential damage she is inflicting on her own children. 

You are doing the stand-up thing. Your kids are going to admire you and want to be close with you as they get older. Sure, they'll go through the typical rebelious phase, but they will see you as a man of integrity.

Mom is probably running them ragged because she hopes they will see her as a virtual DisneyWorld full of fun and good times. That doesn't bring stability to a child's life. Quantity doesn't trump quality.

Hang in there, ronin. You are doing what is best for your children.


----------



## ronin5573

Prodigal said:


> Yep, definitely sounds like a case of the "guilts" to me. She wants to explain herself, but doesn't seem to give a good cahoot as to potential damage she is inflicting on her own children.
> 
> You are doing the stand-up thing. Your kids are going to admire you and want to be close with you as they get older. Sure, they'll go through the typical rebelious phase, but they will see you as a man of integrity.
> 
> Mom is probably running them ragged because she hopes they will see her as a virtual DisneyWorld full of fun and good times. That doesn't bring stability to a child's life. Quantity doesn't trump quality.
> 
> Hang in there, ronin. You are doing what is best for your children.


Yea maybe she is feeling guilty. Though I cant imagine after what has hapened in the last few weeks she would feel that way. All I feel now is just mad. How could she do this to our children.


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## AwwSnail

I've read this whole thread and I just want to say to you ronin to keep up what you're doing. Try your best not to succumb to the games your wife is playing. Your children will grow up and remember this summer...it might haunt them, but continue to give them love and support and definitely do not use them as your wife seems to be doing. I'd also suggest not to make them messengers of any sort. 

Now is the time to also focus on you and your self-care. Find a new hobby or try something you've wanted to do, but didn't find time to do in the past... This time can bring a lot of change some of it stressful, but some of it can be fun! 

Hang in there and take things one day at a time, October will be here before you know it.


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## ronin5573

AwwSnail said:


> I've read this whole thread and I just want to say to you ronin to keep up what you're doing. Try your best not to succumb to the games your wife is playing. Your children will grow up and remember this summer...it might haunt them, but continue to give them love and support and definitely do not use them as your wife seems to be doing. I'd also suggest not to make them messengers of any sort.
> 
> Now is the time to also focus on you and your self-care. Find a new hobby or try something you've wanted to do, but didn't find time to do in the past... This time can bring a lot of change some of it stressful, but some of it can be fun!
> 
> Hang in there and take things one day at a time, October will be here before you know it.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

ronin5573 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its now 1:37 In the am. I'm pissed. She called at 12;30 to say she and the kids are spending the night at her boyfriends house. Like hell you are 
I told her to get her ass home with my kids right fen now. I'm editing up for them to get home. What kind of mother would do this to children this young 
I really don't know what to do. Custody is pretty much a losing battle in court but they would be better off with me. This nut job has totally flipped her wig
She isn't even thinking about our kids at this point. I don't care what she does on her time alone. But 
You don't do this to young kids . If she wants to hore around then do it on her own time, leave our kids out of it. As you can tell I'm pretty upset right now. When they get hone I'm putting the kids to bed and im going off on my stbxw
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

If she is making the kids sleepover it has to be someone she knew from before, likely the original OM. If you know his address go check it out yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AwwSnail

ronin5573 said:


> Its now 1:37 In the am. I'm pissed. She called at 12;30 to say she and the kids are spending the night at her boyfriends house. Like hell you are
> I told her to get her ass home with my kids right fen now. I'm editing up for them to get home. What kind of mother would do this to children this young
> I really don't know what to do. Custody is pretty much a losing battle in court but they would be better off with me. This nut job has totally flipped her wig
> She isn't even thinking about our kids at this point. I don't care what she does on her time alone. But
> You don't do this to young kids . If she wants to hore around then do it on her own time, leave our kids out of it. As you can tell I'm pretty upset right now. When they get hone I'm putting the kids to bed and im going off on my stbxw
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd be pissed. That is the truth. They have their own beds to sleep in... this is beyond ridiculous. 

 I'm mad for you!!!

She is trying to get you to flip. Keep that in mind. She could be getting all of the same advice you are getting here. Continue to be strong. You _can_ do this. She is probably trying to trap you into a scene where she can get you blocked from the family home. Hold it together! 

I am so so sorry you're going through this.


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## ronin5573

She finally got home at 230 am. We had some words. I have tried to tell her to get the kids home at a reasonable hour. 2;30 isn't reasonable hour. Then I told 
Her to sleep on the couch. Shes the lier and the bad mother. I
Not sleeping in the basement anymore. I still awake wondering whatshe is going to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AwwSnail

wow! thats a big step. Good for you! You have done nothing wrong here! Stay strong!


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## keko

Good to hear and well done on claiming back your bedroom.

Change the mattress first thing tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

A man should never leave his bed when the wife cheats. Good for you for taking it back.


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## ronin5573

She slept in the basement last night , we fought all morning. She then went to work. I'm tired and 
So are the kids
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Keep it up. Show her your alpha.


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## keko

Tell your kids to call you or 911 if they are to have another sleepover at the boyfriends place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

I don't even see what's to fight about. She's not worth the energy.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> I don't even see what's to fight about. She's not worth the energy.


We're fighting about her comming home at 230 am with the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> We're fighting about her comming home at 230 am with the kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again, it's a useless conversation to have. You're spinning your wheels thinking you can talk some sense into her when it's obvious by her actions she has none.

Would you argue with one of your kids? Look at her that way. She's reduced herself to a childs level of maturity. Don't stoop to her level.


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## ronin5573

So your says let her come and go with the kids as she pleases? That's why I moved back 
Home to prevent her from doing dumb stuff
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> So your says let her come and go with the kids as she pleases? That's why I moved back
> Home to prevent her from doing dumb stuff
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why don't you tell her to move in with OM and leave you and the kids in the house?


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> So your says let her come and go with the kids as she pleases? That's why I moved back
> Home to prevent her from doing dumb stuff
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No that's not what I'm saying. Fighting with her isn't keeping her from doing anything stupid... or haven't you figured that out yet?

Keep your cool is what I'm saying. Your kids don't need any more chaos... this includes arguing and fighting with their deranged mother. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.


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## AwwSnail

I believe she is acting like a child. She's getting attention the only way she can right now, since she's to her knees in bad behavior, she's acting out in even worse ways. She's got your attention now doesn't she? Ignore it. Document everything. She "can" bring them to and fro as she pleases, right now. But document this and bring your concerns straight to your lawyer. Don't argue. You are wasting your breath and she is getting what she wants. She wants to see you come undone. Fighting with her gives her that. She wins one battle. Now refocus. You need to think about the war. In the end, you could come out victorious. Her behavior is just begging to have custody taken away. Document, document, document.


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## turnera

An alpha man doesn't argue. He states, and then he carries out consequences for poor behavior if they continue.


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## ronin5573

I went to my moms and rushed her to the hospital . I think she had a stroke. I think god needs to give me a break. Jesus help me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Prayers for your family.


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## turnera

I'm so sorry! Good luck.


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## AwwSnail

I'm so sorry this is happening. Many prayers for you and your family. 

Be there for your family, but also keep in mind to take some time for you. Take a deep breath and close your eyes. Hang in there.


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## ronin5573

Im doing my best. Life throws a lot of curve balls sometimes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Will your Mom be OK?


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## ronin5573

I think she will be. Still waiting for test results
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Thank God.


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## keko

Sorry to hear Ron. Sending prayers your way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopefull363

Hope your moms ok ronin. You did a great job demanding she come home with the kids. Document all of this crazy stuff she does. Keep a journal, times, dates. It could earn you more visitation rights or even 50% custody. I'm with the other poster that said she should go live with her boyfriend and leave the kids with you. Can you get a clause into the custody agreement that says no sleep overs at boyfriends house? Keep us updated on your mom.


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## still.trying

I think you already know the answer. If you have no choice, you have no choice. It seems to me like she probably is not having an affair, but is thinking about it. She probably loves you, but like she said, just not in that way. It has probably been brewing for a very long time. Honestly, I don't know what's wrong with some women. You work hard and support your family very well and you also want to show her affection. You probably have a nice house and nice clothes and two healthy children. I would do anything to have all that. Just pick up what's left of your pride and get ready to move on. Why do you have to move out? She could move out. Immerse yourself in your children. I would love to see you cut back on some of those work hours. That's too much. You need to live your life not work it away. You could cut back on expenses. It's worth it. I'm sure you will find someone who will appreciate you. Don't regret the time you spend with her. It wasn't a waste. It was just a different part of your life and now you are starting something new.


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## ronin5573

still.trying said:


> I think you already know the answer. If you have no choice, you have no choice. It seems to me like she probably is not having an affair, but is thinking about it. She probably loves you, but like she said, just not in that way. It has probably been brewing for a very long time. Honestly, I don't know what's wrong with some women. You work hard and support your family very well and you also want to show her affection. You probably have a nice house and nice clothes and two healthy children. I would do anything to have all that. Just pick up what's left of your pride and get ready to move on. Why do you have to move out? She could move out. Immerse yourself in your children. I would love to see you cut back on some of those work hours. That's too much. You need to live your life not work it away. You could cut back on expenses. It's worth it. I'm sure you will find someone who will appreciate you. Don't regret the time you spend with her. It wasn't a waste. It was just a different part of your life and now you are starting something new.


No I think she is actually is having an affair. Today she is flying out with her boyfriend to go somewhere.


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## ronin5573

Mom is doing better and is going to be released from the hospital today. Last night after I left the hospital I went home. She came home about 4 and was in attack mode again. So I told her lets goto the cell phone store and move her phone out of my account. She agreed thank god. The contract wasnt up on her phone for another 14 months and for me to end the contract would have been about 550.00. So we got that done thank goodness. Went back home and she just would let up. At this point I havent really slep in a few days and just needed a good night sleep. So since I had the kids this weekend I decided that me and kids would spend the night at my parents house. I had to get up early and take them to my sisterinlaws and they will spend the day with her and her kids. This whole divorce process is totally draining. I never imagined it would be this rough. My emotions still are all over the place which I get mad at myself. After everything that has happened in the last few months, I could only imagine that I would hate her. Sometimes i do and sometimes I teeter the other way. Just keep going


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## jh52

Once again, why won't she just move in with OM ??


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Once again, why won't she just move in with OM ??


I dont really know the status of their relashionship. She has been out with him many times sometimes untill 4am. So I can only assume thats its sexual. I dont know if he is serious about her or just using her for a piece of ass. They are spending the weekend out of town this weekend together. If she left I wouldnt allow her to take the kids, so I dont think she would go move there.


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## A Bit Much

I think it's funny she bothers coming home at all if she's out until 4am most nights. She may as well go to work from wherever she is. She trying to put a show on for the kids? They see her leave every night, so the whole display is rather silly.

Besides, that time is right in the middle of some really good sleep. I'd hate to break that up. lol


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> I dont really know the status of their relashionship. She has been out with him many times sometimes untill 4am. So I can only assume thats its sexual. I dont know if he is serious about her or just using her for a piece of ass. They are spending the weekend out of town this weekend together. If she left I wouldnt allow her to take the kids, so I dont think she would go move there.


That's the reason for me asking. She seems to always be there with him and gets home at all hours of the night. As long as you could manage to get the kids ready everyday (especially) for school when it starts -- then there shouldn't be a problem.

My guess is that after the divorce there is going to be shared custody -- and the kids will need a routine (especially when school starts) so why not start now.

She can be at home when the kids get home from school until you get home from work -- then she can leave.

Just a thought. Wouldn't hurt to ask -- then the kids won't be stuck with her and OM all day/night.

Just thinking of the kids -- maybe she would also think of the kids.


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> That's the reason for me asking. She seems to always be there with him and gets home at all hours of the night. As long as you could manage to get the kids ready everyday (especially) for school when it starts -- then there shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> My guess is that after the divorce there is going to be shared custody -- and the kids will need a routine (especially when school starts) so why not start now.
> 
> She can be at home when the kids get home from school until you get home from work -- then she can leave.
> 
> Just a thought. Wouldn't hurt to ask -- then the kids won't be stuck with her and OM all day/night.
> 
> Truth is with my current schedule I would have to get a nanny of something like that. I dont want to change jobs right now. Im having a tough time on all fronts, I think a new job would be waaaaay to much to deal with right now. I have spoken with the kids and my stbxw has already preped them for them saying they want to live with her. .
> Im having an off day today. I know I shouldnt care what she does this weekend ... but its really bothering me. I also know that Im going to get jumped on for saying that .. but thats just how I feel right now.
> 
> Just thinking of the kids -- maybe she would also think of the kids.


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## jh52

"Truth is with my current schedule I would have to get a nanny of something like that. I dont want to change jobs right now. Im having a tough time on all fronts, I think a new job would be waaaaay to much to deal with right now. I have spoken with the kids and my stbxw has already preped them for them saying they want to live with her. .
Im having an off day today. I know I shouldnt care what she does this weekend ... but its really bothering me. I also know that Im going to get jumped on for saying that .. but thats just how I feel right now."

Ron -- I know it's hard and a person can't just turn off the feelings like a light switch no matter how bad we are being treated. You are going through alot with the pending divorce, stbexw and her OM, your mother's health, work, kids, etc.

Don't be too hard on yourself.

Try to have a nice weekend with the kids.


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## keko

"I have spoken with the kids and my stbxw has already preped them for them saying they want to live with her."

What are you going to do about this? Depending on their age, their words can be considered at court. Sounds like she's going for the highest $$ she could get out of you.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> "I have spoken with the kids and my stbxw has already preped them for them saying they want to live with her."
> 
> What are you going to do about this? Depending on their age, their words can be considered at court. Sounds like she's going for the highest $$ she could get out of you.


All she is worried about right now is money. I always felt that she was a great mother up untill the last month or so.


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## keko

ronin5573 said:


> All she is worried about right now is money. I always felt that she was a great mother up untill the last month or so.


How much of an income difference is there between both of you? What is your lawyer saying about possible alimony/child support?

I'm not sure if I told you earlier but review this link and plan accordingly, Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum • View topic - THE LIST (Print It)


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> How much of an income difference is there between both of you? What is your lawyer saying about possible alimony/child support?
> 
> I'm not sure if I told you earlier but review this link and plan accordingly, Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum • View topic - THE LIST (Print It)


IM in illinois. 2 kids is 28% of net. Maintiance is courts decression. Im trying to settle things up with her. have her Keep the house with home equity and such to have her waive maintiance. I can contend with child support. I just dont want to deal with maintiance. Illinois is a no fault state. they pretty much split it all 50 50


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## ronin5573

So today I work all day and the kids are going to spend the day with my sisterinlaw and her kids. They have a party to attend for my cousins birthday and they will have a good time. I think I have the story on my STBXW. She flew out yesterday to Philidelphia to be with her boyfriend. They spent the night Friday night and today will attend a wedding for someone that he knows. They will spend the night tonight and I think they are both driving back Sunday. I think her drove there earlier in the week. So she wont be home untill late Sunday or even early monday morning. So I think tommorow I will have the whole family over at my house and we can have the kids swim and maybe do a cook out. It might be the last time my family can get together at my house. As things start to heat up the with the divorce process having them over will become difficult. My family at this point is totally done with my wife after everything that has happened. None of them want to even see her. They know about what she has been saying and they are pretty upset. Its kind of nice to have a good family to lean on in time of need such as now.


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## ronin5573

The kids and I had a great weekend. They got some much needed sleep the past few days. They seemed like themselfs for the first time in a while. I had all of my family over and we had a cook out. The kids swam in the pool and played and had a good time. After everyone left they both took baths and then we relaxed and watched cars2. We all went to bed at 9:30 pm. I had a good night sleep and woke up at 6am. Looked around and my stbxw still wasnt home yet from her weekend away with her BF. So I took and shower and got ready for work. I waited till 7 am and then decided to wake the kids up because I would have to take them to my moms as I had to be at work at 8:30. They got up and then I waited untill 7:30 and she still wasnt there. I didnt call my ex I just got the kids in the car and we started driving to my mom and dads. She then called at 7:45 that she was home and where were we. I told her she wasnt there and Im taking them to my parents. She got into a huff and puff again and said that she will goto my parents and pick them up and if my mom gives her any **** then she will call the police. I cant have my parents deal with that crap so I doubble backed and we met up. She took them to her friends who watches the kids all the time. So much for easy divorce. Im serously thinking about fighting for custody. I found out that on last tuesday while they were over at my stbxw's boyfriends house that my ex and her BF left the kids and went to a bar. She left my kids with this guys 20 year old son. I wanted to go nuts. I dont know who her BF is yet alone who his son is. He could be some kind of sicko for all I know. She is not using good judgement and is only thinking about herself.


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## keko

Oh please call the cops for what? Next time she says that just send her a text with the kids are with the babysitter at this address, instead of saying they're with your mom.


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## A Bit Much

I'm sure your mother wouldn't have even said two words to her. I would have left her a note at home and dropped the kids off accordingly. Her temper wouldn't have changed one damn thing... she wasn't home, and you needed to get to work. Life goes on with or without her being present. 

Are you afraid of her or something?


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## A Bit Much

And yes, she could have called whomever she wanted to. WTH would she tell the cops? She just got home from a weekend away.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> And yes, she could have called whomever she wanted to. WTH would she tell the cops? She just got home from a weekend away.


I agree with everything. But my mom was just in the hospital last week. I cant drop them there and they have them deal with my wifes bull poo poo. I dont think it would have been fair to my parents. They are older and should have to deal with that kind of thing. By deal I mean my wife showing up and the police and such. My stbxf is really flipped out. She in once again in a fog from her new boyfriend.


----------



## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I agree with everything. But my mom was just in the hospital last week. I cant drop them there and they have them deal with my wifes bull poo poo. I dont think it would have been fair to my parents. They are older and should have to deal with that kind of thing. By deal I mean my wife showing up and the police and such. My stbxf is really flipped out. She in once again in a fog from her new boyfriend.


Well you were taking the kids there anyway, mom's health aside. If you felt it unfair, why not take them to the sitter like your wife did? 

My point is that last night you didn't have a plan in place in case your wife didn't show up on time. You have to get into the habit of not relying on her IN ANY WAY to be responsible.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Well you were taking the kids there anyway, mom's health aside. If you felt it unfair, why not take them to the sitter like your wife did?
> 
> My point is that last night you didn't have a plan in place in case your wife didn't show up on time. You have to get into the habit of not relying on her IN ANY WAY to be responsible.


I always have a plan in place. I cant rely on her for anything


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## turnera

Maybe you should set them up at a daycare.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Maybe you should set them up at a daycare.


While on summer vacation from school, I can always take them to my family. When they go back next month I will have to get them in day care for after school.


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## ronin5573

She is texting me now staying that she wasnt me to not stay there. I told her that Im staying in the house untill things are finalized. This NJ thinks Im staying there for her. She doenst even realize that Im staying there because god knows what will happen if Im not there with the children


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## Hopefull363

Ronin, Do try to get at least 50% custody. The kids need the stability you provide while their mother is acting like a teenager. When she tells you to leave the house tell her no but she is welcome to leave. Please keep a journal of all the things she says and does. Like threatening to call the cops to get the kids from your parents. Keep dates and times. Don't put feelings in there. Just document everything she does. It will help you with the custody.


----------



## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> Ronin, Do try to get at least 50% custody. The kids need the stability you provide while their mother is acting like a teenager. When she tells you to leave the house tell her no but she is welcome to leave. Please keep a journal of all the things she says and does. Like threatening to call the cops to get the kids from your parents. Keep dates and times. Don't put feelings in there. Just document everything she does. It will help you with the custody.


I have been. Thats another reason why I keep posting in here. Not only for my own sanity but as a document that I can recall dates and times. I always keep a VAR running. She is telliing her mother that I attacked her on Thursday morning when she came home at 230 am. I told her mother thats not what happened and I had the whole thing on my VAR. She can tell people whatever she wants. I called and spoke to her mom to try to get her to tell my stbxw what she is doing. Her mom agreed with me but didnt think there was anything that she could say or do to help. She knows the state her daughter is in and said that how her ex husbad was when she got a divorce 20 years ago. My stbxw is doing what she seen when she was a kid.


----------



## jh52

Hey Ron:

Just a suggestion to ask a moderator to move your thread to "Coping with Infidelity" or " Going through a Divorce" forum here on TAM.

You will get more hits and more excellent advice.


----------



## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> She is texting me now staying that she wasnt me to not stay there. I told her that Im staying in the house untill things are finalized. This NJ thinks Im staying there for her. She doenst even realize that Im staying there because god knows what will happen if Im not there with the children


I wouldn't respond to her texts. Why are you responding?


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Maybe you should set them up at a daycare.


I have help when I need it .. Im blessed that I have a great family to leam on at times such as this. So far this has been one hell of an experiance. Im really glad that I have been posting to this board. The advise that I have recieved here has been a real help. Soon the lawyers will step in and get the whole process moving along. My first date in court is OCtober 8th. Im sure we will all sit down to try to work things out first.


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## turnera

Well, the reason I suggested daycare is that it takes the 'personal' out of the equation. No one taking sides, no one making anyone feel uncomfortable, no reasons not to comply with changeovers.


----------



## keko

Hopefull363 said:


> Ronin, Do try to get at least 50% custody. The kids need the stability you provide while their mother is acting like a teenager. When she tells you to leave the house tell her no but she is welcome to leave. Please keep a journal of all the things she says and does. Like threatening to call the cops to get the kids from your parents. Keep dates and times. Don't put feelings in there. Just document everything she does. It will help you with the custody.





ronin5573 said:


> I have been. Thats another reason why I keep posting in here. Not only for my own sanity but as a document that I can recall dates and times. I always keep a VAR running. She is telliing her mother that I attacked her on Thursday morning when she came home at 230 am. I told her mother thats not what happened and I had the whole thing on my VAR. She can tell people whatever she wants. I called and spoke to her mom to try to get her to tell my stbxw what she is doing. Her mom agreed with me but didnt think there was anything that she could say or do to help. She knows the state her daughter is in and said that how her ex husbad was when she got a divorce 20 years ago. My stbxw is doing what she seen when she was a kid.


Ron you're keeping a journal of how much you're looking after your kids while she keeps them out till early morning right?

Keep filling up the journal and recording via VAR. Once you and your attorney feels comfortable with the amount of dirt you have on how unfit of a mother she is, go for a 55/45 or a 60/40 in your favor.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Ron you're keeping a journal of how much you're looking after your kids while she keeps them out till early morning right?
> 
> Keep filling up the journal and recording via VAR. Once you and your attorney feels comfortable with the amount of dirt you have on how unfit of a mother she is, go for a 55/45 or a 60/40 in your favor.


I have journaled everything since june 16. Or the day I moved out for 2 weeks to give her "TIME" to think. I have many of our conversations on VAR. She even knows im recording her and she still says stupid stuff.


----------



## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I have journaled everything since june 16. Or the day I moved out for 2 weeks to give her "TIME" to think. I have many of our conversations on VAR. *She even knows im recording her and she still says stupid stuff*.


That's because she doesn't believe you'll do anything with it. She has no respect for you, all of her actions up to now show you proof of that.


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## keko

Try to find who her new bf is and search his/his son's name on sex offender's list.


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## keko

A Bit Much said:


> That's because she doesn't believe you'll do anything with it. She has no respect for you, all of her actions up to now show you proof of that.


Correct. Try to push her to the limit. Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll physically attack you.


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## A Bit Much

keko said:


> Correct. Try to push her to the limit. Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll physically attack you.


I think ignoring her would do that. She picks and picks because she knows he still will react. HE'LL be the one snapping. Not her.. she still has control.

Responding to texts, having confrontations... all of this fuels her. She's not quite miserable enough yet. Not quite.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Try to find who her new bf is and search his/his son's name on sex offender's list.


I know that guys first name only. Not even my kids know his last name. I blew up her first affair. So shes very careful that I dont blow up this one. I dont care about her anymore. but I would like to find out who he is and where the kids go.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> That's because she doesn't believe you'll do anything with it. She has no respect for you, all of her actions up to now show you proof of that.


Actually your right. She doesnt repect me at all. Sad .. but true.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I know that guys first name only. Not even my kids know his last name. I blew up her first affair. So shes very careful that I dont blow up this one. I dont care about her anymore. but I would like to find out who he is and where the kids go.


Have you considered following her? Desperate times call for desperate actions. Solicit a friend to do it if you can. Or maybe you could get a GPS and plant it in the car?


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> I think ignoring her would do that. She picks and picks because she knows he still will react. HE'LL be the one snapping. Not her.. she still has control.
> 
> Responding to texts, having confrontations... all of this fuels her. She's not quite miserable enough yet. Not quite.


I think your suggestion is the way to proceed. I will try to avoid all contact with her. Unless its about the kids. Im not moving out ... I dont care what she says or does. I think when she puts her line in the water and I bite it... it does make her feel in control. I make her miserable just by living there. She wants me gone and will do anything to get me to leave. She knows that I wont and is just trying to do anything for that to happen. I havent spoken with her since thrusday evening. Today was the first time since then


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Have you considered following her? Desperate times call for desperate actions. Solicit a friend to do it if you can. Or maybe you could get a GPS and plant it in the car?


I have thought about it. She only goes there on my her day off or when Im working. Maybe on a sunday I could follow her when she takes the kids. I just want to know where the kids are at when she finally blows a fuse


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## keko

Ron, start documenting every valuable item at your house. Even furniture and appliance's, with pictures if possible. So if one day they somehow disappear you'll have the proof to go after your wife.

If for whatever reason she brings her bf or his son to your house, call the cops right away(try to make it sound as if you're feared by them) and try to get a RO on them as well.


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## keko

ronin5573 said:


> I have thought about it. She only goes there on my her day off or when Im working. Maybe on a sunday I could follow her when she takes the kids. I just want to know where the kids are at when she finally blows a fuse


Can the kids describe where his house is?


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I have thought about it. She only goes there on my her day off or when Im working. Maybe on a sunday I could follow her when she takes the kids. I just want to know where the kids are at when she finally blows a fuse


No you need to be more James Bond about it. Take off a day from work... let her think that's where you are but follow her instead.

I may or may not know a thing or two about these kinds of things. lol


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## A Bit Much

IDK.

I think you can go about this without having to call the police. It would instigate her to do more than she already is, and not in a good way. She can threaten it or whatever, but you can manage her without involving them.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Can the kids describe where his house is?


Not really they dont know. I know that he lives in Valpariso Indiana. She told my cousin that at the camping trip. My cousin told my sisterinlaw that this weekend at the birthday party they both went to. His first name is John. My daughter says he owns a BAR there. I have googled it 10 ways till sunday. I cant find anything. They dont know how to get to his house. I try not to grill the kids about it because I dont want them to feel they are in the middle


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> IDK.
> 
> I think you can go about this without having to call the police. It would instigate her to do more than she already is, and not in a good way. She can threaten it or whatever, but you can manage her without involving them.


what do you mean


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Not really they dont know. I know that he lives in Valpariso Indiana. She told my cousin that at the camping trip. My cousin told my sisterinlaw that this weekend at the birthday party they both went to. His first name is John. My daughter says he owns a BAR there. I have googled it 10 ways till sunday. I cant find anything. They dont know how to get to his house. I try not to grill the kids about it because I dont want them to feel they are in the middle


No keep them out of it but pay attention to whatever info they volunteer. Be passive about the info when you talk to them... lots of OH's and AH's. Then change the subject or whatever. The kids talk to you both... all you need is for one of them to say DADDY asked me about John. No bueno.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> what do you mean


I was referring to keko's suggestion of calling the police and getting restraining orders. Too soon for that type of action, and IMO not necessary .... YET.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> No keep them out of it but pay attention to whatever info they volunteer. Be passive about the info when you talk to them... lots of OH's and AH's. Then change the subject or whatever. The kids talk to you both... all you need is for one of them to say DADDY asked me about John. No bueno.


THey tell her that we have spoken about it. Thats why she is so tight lipped on the whole thing. Its just a matter of time. She doesnt feel the need to hide the OM at this point. She just wants me out of the way so she can do what she wants. And she can. Just not with the kids.


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## keko

ronin5573 said:


> Not really they dont know. I know that he lives in Valpariso Indiana. She told my cousin that at the camping trip. My cousin told my sisterinlaw that this weekend at the birthday party they both went to. His first name is John. My daughter says he owns a BAR there. I have googled it 10 ways till sunday. I cant find anything. They dont know how to get to his house. I try not to grill the kids about it because I dont want them to feel they are in the middle


If its a small town, try calling all of the bars and asking for john?


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> If its a small town, try calling all of the bars and asking for john?


THere is well over 100. not including restraunts. Would take a long time to do that.


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## A Bit Much

Just an FYI, they have child GPS trackers. They can look like a watch or are small enough to fit into a childs pocket. Amazon has a great selection.


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## Hopefull363

I like the child GPS tracker. That's a good idea. You have just as much rights to the children as she does. You are well within your rights to want to know where the children are going as well as who they are spending time with. She would want to know that if you had the children with another woman and brought them to her house.


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## keko

Ron if there is a bestbuy nearby have a look at this, SPOT - 2 Satellite GPS Messenger - Orange - SPOT-2O


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## MattMatt

jh52 said:


> Once again, why won't she just move in with OM ??


His wife will not let him? (Not joking...)


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## MattMatt

ronin5573 said:


> I know that guys first name only. Not even my kids know his last name. I blew up her first affair. So shes very careful that I dont blow up this one. I dont care about her anymore. but I would like to find out who he is and where the kids go.


Wow. She keeps his name a secret from the children? Red flag???


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## MattMatt

ronin5573 said:


> Not really they dont know. I know that he lives in Valpariso Indiana. She told my cousin that at the camping trip. My cousin told my sisterinlaw that this weekend at the birthday party they both went to. His first name is John. My daughter says he owns a BAR there. I have googled it 10 ways till sunday. I cant find anything. They dont know how to get to his house. I try not to grill the kids about it because I dont want them to feel they are in the middle


All Bars, Pubs, Clubs in Valparaiso, IN on Yahoo! Local

BTW, his given name might be Jack, some times Johns can be Jacks and Jacks can be Johns.


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## ronin5573

MattMatt said:


> His wife will not let him? (Not joking...)


 I will help her move


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Ron if there is a bestbuy nearby have a look at this, SPOT - 2 Satellite GPS Messenger - Orange - SPOT-2O


This might work. Says it will send a signal every 10 mins for 24 hours .


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## MattMatt

ronin5573 said:


> I will help her move


How about this? Your WW stays there whenever his (unsuspecting?) wife is on a trip?

Plus a concern... that 20 year-old guy, how sure can you be he is really that OMs son??


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## keko

If you know his number try Caller ID Lookup and Free Cell Number Search | Spy Dialer <--- lets you listen to his voicemail message, you might hear his last name.


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## ronin5573

sweetgirl said:


> Ron,
> I have read this thread with interest and found myself feeling compassionate for you in the situation you're in. I have found the members' advice here to be extremely well given and valuable to you in your stated situation. While it seems like some of it you have followed, you still have not seemed to push past your emotional state and proceed in a manner that is logical and self preserving. You state that you don't know her current bfs last name, yet have you tracked her phone calls before your recent decision to switch her phone over to her own account? You seemed to be the on the right track when discovering her initial infidelity with the janitor. You can generally retrieve someone's first and last name through their phone number now a days, although I can't say if this is true for cell phones or just home numbers. Also you indicated that you no longer check her computer because you tire of spying on her. However, if your children are spending time in another state around a man you have never met I think it might be well worth your time to fully investigate any information of hers you have access to. You indicate a high paying salary and so it confuses me why you have not used technological means to track where your children are. You don't even need to buy a gps tracker as your cell phone service can easily track your daughter's phone through a gps service that almost all cell companies provide. Honestly, you don't seem to be handling this situation in a proactive way. You are reacting emotionally and in the end it might hurt you. Listen to the advice here, it's good. Face the reality of this situation. Seek counsel from your lawyer, and proceed in a rational manner.


Though I have had my far share of struggles the last few weeks most of it emotional. I have faced reality. Its harder then I ever thought it would be just just stop loving a girl thats been in my life for the last 15 years. I do understand that she isnt the same person and is only concerned to get what ever she can out of me. She is the enemy to me now. Thank you for your words. I will find out where they go.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> If you know his number try Caller ID Lookup and Free Cell Number Search | Spy Dialer <--- lets you listen to his voicemail message, you might hear his last name.


Ive looked through all of her records and she has never called him from our joint accont phone. She had a pay as you go phone and was using that. I dont know his number


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## ronin5573

MattMatt said:


> How about this? Your WW stays there whenever his (unsuspecting?) wife is on a trip?
> 
> Plus a concern... that 20 year-old guy, how sure can you be he is really that OMs son??


My stbxw has told my cousin that he's divorced. I dont know if its true. The guy has a 20 year old son. a 17 year old daughter and a 11 year old daugher. He could be married and if he were I would find it pretty funny but I dont think so. My kids refer to the 20 year old as john son... but who knows... Information is always in bits and pieces.


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## Shaggy

Can you put a god tracker on her car.?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

Shaggy said:


> Can you put a god tracker on her car.?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


God will strike down upon thee with great vengence and furious anger.


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## anchorwatch

ronin5573 said:


> God will strike down upon thee with great vengence and furious anger.


Glad to see you can still enjoy some humor.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Glad to see you can still enjoy some humor.


You better believe it. It takes 2. Since there isnt 2 I may as well make the best of it. Tommorow the sun will rise and life will go on. Now its just time to clean up the mess and move on.


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## Shaggy

ronin5573 said:


> God will strike down upon thee with great vengence and furious anger.


Sorry, iPad spell check to blame! 

Can you put a gps tracker?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sbrown

I wouldnt worry about the OM. I doubt there is much you can do about her being with him or having the kids around him. Document everything, including what the kids tell you! Ask your attorney if it would be worth having that information. Not worrying about him will take some of the fun out of it for your stbex. Take care of your kids, get them in family counseling NOW. They are as confused as can be I garuntee it. Stand your ground and ignore her unless she does something ILLEGAL with the kids or towards you. God speed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

Sbrown said:


> I wouldnt worry about the OM. I doubt there is much you can do about her being with him or having the kids around him. Document everything, including what the kids tell you! Ask your attorney if it would be worth having that information. Not worrying about him will take some of the fun out of it for your stbex. Take care of your kids, get them in family counseling NOW. They are as confused as can be I garuntee it. Stand your ground and ignore her unless she does something ILLEGAL with the kids or towards you. God speed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is great advise. The only true reason I want to know who and where the OM is for that way if something ever happens I know where to go to get the kids. I have spoke with my lawyer yesterday about it and he agreed that there is nothing to do untill I feel they are in danger.... which would have to be proven and not just me feeling that way. Every indication that my stbxw gets about my still in it fuels her to do more harm to me. Its like she gets off on trying to hurt me anyway she can, throwing her affair in my face. I think the best way to handle the situation is to honestly ...... not care... keep the 180 going.


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## warlock07

If you can, ask her to leave the OM address at a neutral 3rd party that she trusts just as a precaution


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## ronin5573

Ok now I have all the info . I got his name and with that I can get everything else
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Search public records if he was ever convicted or on the sexual offender's list. Search his son's name as well.


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## Hopefull363

How did you get it?


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## ronin5573

My daughter slipped and said his last name. I got everything now .. address where he works, the whole bit. Today I was off work and the kids and I spent the whole day together. We had a great day. I took them shopping for school clothes and for things like that. I took them out to dinner and they seemed normal. We came home about 6pm. House was empty and I kind of figured it would be. She called my daughters cell phone at 730 and told her she was going to spend the night at her BF house in Indiana, and that she would be home at 7:30 am. I kinda figured she would because saturday morning she is taking the kids on our family vacation to disney world and wont get to see the OM all of next week. My guess is she will most likely spend the night there tommorow night as well. We will have to see if Im right. I could see instanty that my daughter was sad about it. I will do my best with the kids as my stbxw isnt taking there feeling into account at all. Its all about her at this point.


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## Thor

Why are the kids taking sides and hiding information? This is not healthy for them.


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> My daughter slipped and said his last name. I got everything now .. address where he works, the whole bit. Today I was off work and the kids and I spent the whole day together. We had a great day. I took them shopping for school clothes and for things like that. I took them out to dinner and they seemed normal. We came home about 6pm. House was empty and I kind of figured it would be. She called my daughters cell phone at 730 and told her she was going to spend the night at her BF house in Indiana, and that she would be home at 7:30 am. I kinda figured she would because saturday morning she is taking the kids on our family vacation to disney world and wont get to see the OM all of next week. My guess is she will most likely spend the night there tommorow night as well. We will have to see if Im right. I could see instanty that my daughter was sad about it. I will do my best with the kids as my stbxw isnt taking there feeling into account at all. Its all about her at this point.


Why does she put her daughter in the middle ?? She is such an unfit parent.

BTW -- r u sure the OM is not going to Disney next week as one new happy family ?? Just wondering !!

Once again putting the kids in the middle.


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## Hopefull363

I'm glad you have it ronin. It must be a relieve to at least know where your children are. One day at a time. One day this will all be over and hopefully you'll be happy again.


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## keko

ronin5573 said:


> I could see instanty that my daughter was sad about it. I will do my best with the kids as my stbxw isnt taking there feeling into account at all. Its all about her at this point.


Use this to your advantage. They're constantly being disappointed by their mother but their superdad is always there for them.


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## warlock07

Just make sure he isn't a creep. You cannot fault him much though. You don't know what lies your wife must have fed him.


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> Just make sure he isn't a creep. You cannot fault him much though. You don't know what lies your wife must have fed him.


Creep, I don't know. He is getting it on with a married woman so he has to at least think she has issues. . But he might not know that. My stbxw tells our kids that she is divorced. So she thinks because she filed then its ok. 
I told the kids that she is still married and what she is doing is wrong. He isn't a sex offender and has no criminal record. So he's Probibly a Lonely divorced dude. She is just looking for anything to 
Separate herself from me. Like I have said , I'm not interested in breaking it up, I just want to know how to get my kids if the **** hits the fan and now I can. If she isn't home by 7:30 then I'm talking them with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> Creep, I don't know. He is getting it on with a married woman so he has to at least think she has issues. . But he might not know that. My stbxw tells our kids that she is divorced. So she thinks because she filed then its ok.
> I told the kids that she is still married and what she is doing is wrong. He isn't a sex offender and has no criminal record. So he's Probibly a Lonely divorced dude. She is just looking for anything to
> Separate herself from me. Like I have said , I'm not interested in breaking it up, I just want to know how to get my kids if the **** hits the fan and now I can. If she isn't home by 7:30 then I'm talking them with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just take care of yourself and the kids. 

Your stbxw is so far gone and only thinking about herself that she will lie to whomever to get what she wants. It's like others say -- it's almost like an alien has taken over her brain and body.


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Just take care of yourself and the kids.
> 
> Your stbxw is so far gone and only thinking about herself that she will lie to whomever to get what she wants. It's like others say -- it's almost like an alien has taken over her brain and body.


This is a fact. It is difficult to see her that way, but she totally different. I can only imagine the lies she has told the OM. But thats her problem. Usually lies like that with new relashonships come back to haunt you, but this isnt my concern. She is a totally different person in everyway. Tring to hold the kids together through this has been the hardest thing of my life. Im sure they can see the interaction between them both at this point. They will not be honest with me but this morning my son called the OM mommys boyfriend. That was the first time he called him that. Up to this point he was just mommys "friend". I tried to explain to him this morning on a young boy level that what she is doing is wrong. He told me that mommy told him that she is divorced and she can do what shes likes. I then told him that that isnt true yet. He was raised a catholic and understand that adulty is one of the ten commmandments. So I think she is telling the OM that she is already divorced or ... just about to be.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Creep, I don't know. He is getting it on with a married woman so he has to at least think she has issues. . But he might not know that. My stbxw tells our kids that she is divorced. So she thinks because she filed then its ok.
> I told the kids that she is still married and what she is doing is wrong. He isn't a sex offender and has no criminal record. So he's Probibly a Lonely divorced dude. She is just looking for anything to
> Separate herself from me. Like I have said , I'm not interested in breaking it up, I just want to know how to get my kids if the **** hits the fan and now I can. If she isn't home by 7:30 then I'm talking them with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just think. If you hadn't moved back in, she'd have this guy in the house with HER and probably spending the night. It's obvious she doesn't care much about the kids and what they're experiencing.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Just think. If you hadn't moved back in, she'd have this guy in the house with HER and probably spending the night. It's obvious she doesn't care much about the kids and what they're experiencing.


That would would be the case if I were not there. Acutally me moving out for 2 weeks for her time to think was a terrible idea. If I could go back I would have never done that. Untill the papers are signed Im going to stay there. At this point I dont think he has ever been to my house but its just a matter of time untill she pulls that. If she ever brings him there I will just simply state leave NOW. If he is still standing there 10 sec later then I will get the police involved.

As far as the kids go thats the worst part of the whole thing. She is doing what she wants without their regard. She doesnt feel the need to hide the OM in anyway including our children.


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## anchorwatch

ronin5573 said:


> That would would be the case if I were not there. Acutally me moving out for 2 weeks for her time to think was a terrible idea. If I could go back I would have never done that. Untill the papers are signed Im going to stay there. At this point I dont think he has ever been to my house but its just a matter of time untill she pulls that. If she ever brings him there I will just simply state leave NOW. If he is still standing there 10 sec later then I will get the police involved.
> 
> As far as the kids go thats the worst part of the whole thing. She is doing what she wants without their regard. She doesnt feel the need to hide the OM in anyway including our children.


I am familiar with a custody agreement that stated the parents can not have over night guest of the opposite sex, with underage children present, unless they are married to them. It even had a curfew time stated. I don't know the laws of your state, question your lawyer. Yet that would go for both of you. I think that since he has grown children he is not looking to raise your's. Hence marriage would not be in their future. 

Just a note: It's wasn't all that enforceable but the violations did help in custody hearings.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> That would would be the case if I were not there. Acutally me moving out for 2 weeks for her time to think was a terrible idea. If I could go back I would have never done that. Untill the papers are signed Im going to stay there. At this point I dont think he has ever been to my house but its just a matter of time untill she pulls that. If she ever brings him there I will just simply state leave NOW. If he is still standing there 10 sec later then I will get the police involved.
> 
> As far as the kids go thats the worst part of the whole thing. She is doing what she wants without their regard. She doesnt feel the need to hide the OM in anyway including our children.


I just wonder how things got so bad so quickly. I know what you mean about taking the 2 weeks back too. It was her green light. Coming back messed that up for her, so now she's going to make you pay for it by doing any and everything she can to annoy and frustrate you.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> I just wonder how things got so bad so quickly. I know what you mean about taking the 2 weeks back too. It was her green light. Coming back messed that up for her, so now she's going to make you pay for it by doing any and everything she can to annoy and frustrate you.


OH god you have no idea how bad its been to continue to live there. Things are not going the way I would have figured. It does give me a lot of insite as to where her mind is at. She is totally done with our marriage. I couldnt figure out why she was so inraged with I came back, now I know that she wasnt thinking about our marriage at all... she was thinking how to find a replacement and with me gone it would be easier. As it turns out she did that anyway. As for reconciliation I made a lot of mistakes. As for the divorce going forward I think Im doing the right things.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> I am familiar with a custody agreement that stated the parents can not have over night guest of the opposite sex, with underage children present, unless they are married to them. It even had a curfew time stated. I don't know the laws of your state, question your lawyer. Yet that would go for both of you. I think that since he has grown children he is not looking to raise your's. Hence marriage would not be in their future.
> 
> Just a note: It's wasn't all that enforceable but the violations did help in custody hearings.


It is a topic that I need to have with my lawyer. Most of that isnt really enforceable as you say ... he said she said kind of thing. I dont know if he looking for a wife in my ex or not and we will have to see how it progresses. He does have 3 kids of his own that live with him. son 20 daughter 16 and daughter 6or 7. Looks as if his plate is full but who really knows.


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## A Bit Much

She's enraged because you just won't go away. She's been done with your relationship for the better part of a year. To her, you two have been broken up a lot longer than you physically have been. It's a shame really. She should have at least been able to talk to you about how she was feeling a long time ago. Instead she has affairs. It's too bad.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> She's enraged because you just won't go away. She's been done with your relationship for the better part of a year. To her, you two have been broken up a lot longer than you physically have been. It's a shame really. She should have at least been able to talk to you about how she was feeling a long time ago. Instead she has affairs. It's too bad.


I know this. She really has been done for a while. It tough being the other party who has to play catch up. As far as going away, that would mean leaving the kids and I wont do that. It would be really great if she really fell off the deep end and left the kids also. I think she sees the kids now as a meal ticket and wont do that. This is going to be an emotional struggle for some time.

Maybe Im a totally idiot which is a possibility. But I honest to god never knew she felt this way.


----------



## A Bit Much

It's wrong of her to not tell you... and maybe she tried in subtle ways, maybe too subtly for a man that works 70-75 hours a week. Either way, she did this all wrong. Dishonoring herself is a sign of something deficient in her. Some void she wants to fill regardless of the pain it causes to everyone around her. The sad part is that it only feels good for the moment she's in it. You know, the wherever you go there you are thing. 

She can have her affair and live in a fantasy for a few hours or days, but it doesn't change who or what she's feeling at her core. She can take that out on you all she wants, but she totally went off the deep end here. 

Try to avoid talking about her and the OM with the kids. And have you looked into getting them to therapy? What about the MC you were seeing at the beginning of all this? Maybe they can do family counseling for you and the kids. You guys really need it.


----------



## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> It's wrong of her to not tell you... and maybe she tried in subtle ways, maybe too subtly for a man that works 70-75 hours a week. Either way, she did this all wrong. Dishonoring herself is a sign of something deficient in her. Some void she wants to fill regardless of the pain it causes to everyone around her. The sad part is that it only feels good for the moment she's in it. You know, the wherever you go there you are thing.
> 
> She can have her affair and live in a fantasy for a few hours or days, but it doesn't change who or what she's feeling at her core. She can take that out on you all she wants, but she totally went off the deep end here.
> 
> Try to avoid talking about her and the OM with the kids. And have you looked into getting them to therapy? What about the MC you were seeing at the beginning of all this? Maybe they can do family counseling for you and the kids. You guys really need it.


Im sure she tried but I didnt get it. Least didnt get the fact that she was thinking about throwing it all away. I do work alot and have been honest about that. Ive offered to do something else but she was happy with her standard of living and didnt want that to change. You cant have that both ways. She in the last 4 years have had blowouts with everyone. First it was her mother 4 years ago. While on vacation at her mothers she had a huge blow out which let to her not speaking to her mother for 3 years. They do talk now but it isnt the same. I do still talk to her mom and step dad. They feel bad for me but they already know shes done and they no that anything they say to my ex wont change her mind. Then she had a blow out with my sister or nonsence. My sister and my ex were the best of friends for 10 years. Then my sister in law and last she had the biggest problmes with my mother. My mother tried to talk to me at the time but I felt the need to back my wife up. My ex is creative in tellling how things when down and I did believe her. Now that I speak to my mom every day I know better. Now I guess its my turn for her wrath. She is hurting deeply inside and I would love to help her .... I just dont know how. She really is on her own island now feeling the effects of what she has done after all these years. She wouldnt go to theapy or goto marriage counselling. I cant help someone who feels everyone else is in the wrong and its never her. Any advise


----------



## A Bit Much

You can only help a person that wants help. She doesn't. She can't be saved. 

In my travels I had to learn to accept people for who they are WHERE they are in life. You may see a better way, but they can't and won't. They aren't ready and may never be ready to be self aware. Looking inward is too painful to deal with.


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## anchorwatch

I agree with what A Bit Much says. You can't change her, only she can. 
With that amount of anger in her and for that amount of years, she likely won't wake up...she is convinced that everyone else is eff up and no one gets it. It a scorched earth way of living, if she doesn't get her way with anyone, they get burnt and left behind. She's a bit of a narcissist.

I know it's hard, but do your self a favor and start to think about her as emotionally and mentally gone. Try not to rationalize the why, even trained counselors wouldn't know for sure. So there can be no help from you, except to minimize the damage to your children.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> You can only help a person that wants help. She doesn't. She can't be saved.
> 
> In my travels I had to learn to accept people for who they are WHERE they are in life. You may see a better way, but they can't and won't. They aren't ready and may never be ready to be self aware. Looking inward is too painful to deal with.


I agree with you but it still hard. Makes sence to me when I was trying to resolve things that she would leave the door open but never really tried to resolve things. All she would say is she wanted some time alone to figure out how she felt. I gave her 2 weeks. Then when I moved back she was upset that I didnt give her any time. It was very confusing at the time. Now I realize that she just wanted me on the hook in case her fling didnt work out. Well im out for cake eating. I dont think even now as I type this she thinks Im done. I really thinks if she belives if she just snaped her fingers that I would come running back. Thats not the case. Doesnt really matter, what does matter is that Im done now and am makeing peace with it. It wont happen overnight but everyday it gets easier.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> I agree with what A Bit Much says. You can't change her, only she can.
> With that amount of anger in her and for that amount of years, she likely won't wake up...she is convinced that everyone else is eff up and no one gets it. It a scorched earth way of living, if she doesn't get her way with anyone, they get burnt and left behind. She's a bit of a narcissist.
> 
> I know it's hard, but do your self a favor and start to think about her as emotionally and mentally gone. Try not to rationalize the why, even trained counselors wouldn't know for sure. So there can be no help from you, except to minimize the damage to your children.


Oh shes definatly angry, rage is a better way to devine it. My problem is how did I not know who I was living with for 13 years? She will try to destroy anyone who gets in her way. Now comes the problem when Im out of the picture who will she have left? New guy or maybe the kids. My daughter at times can be very mouthy. I worry that after the divorce is done she will lash out at her. I will have to always be on guard for that. Family counseling could help that even though my opinion on that at least after my 3 visits werent positive. Right now is ok because my daughter is really afraid of my ex.  She is afraid to tell me things and feels the need to tell my ex everything I say, Knowing all this Im ok with it and am careful what I say.


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## anchorwatch

ronin5573 said:


> I agree with you but it still hard. Makes sence to me when I was trying to resolve things that she would leave the door open but never really tried to resolve things. All she would say is she wanted some time alone to figure out how she felt. I gave her 2 weeks. Then when I moved back she was upset that I didnt give her any time. It was very confusing at the time. Now I realize that she just wanted me on the hook in case her fling didnt work out. Well im out for cake eating. I dont think even now as I type this she thinks Im done. I really thinks if she belives if she just snaped her fingers that I would come running back. Thats not the case. Doesnt really matter, what does matter is that Im done now and am makeing peace with it. It wont happen overnight but everyday it gets easier.


You hit the nail on the head. She lied about what was really going on, to keep you in the dark. That's why you can't blame yourself not seeing how she felt or her getting you to move out. She was deceiving you for years, to keep you from calling her on her idea of reality. That's what the deception was about, to keep you and others from interfering with what she wants.

I'd say the BF will experiencing the same thing after the honeymoon phase. Poor fool.


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## A Bit Much

> counseling could help that even though my opinion on that at least after my 3 visits werent positive.


Don't let one experience with one counselor deter you. And really a lot has happened since you last went. The kids weren't involved either in those sessions, and you need to get them talking to someone about how they feel. A neutral party.


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## A Bit Much

I'll also add that, most counseling doesn't start out 'positive' because you're opening up to why you're there in the first place. It's not a fun time. It becomes therapeutic once those problems get dissected and worked through... but to get to the treasure you have to start digging. Digging isn't fun.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> Im sure she tried but I didnt get it. Least didnt get the fact that she was thinking about throwing it all away. I do work alot and have been honest about that. Ive offered to do something else but she was happy with her standard of living and didnt want that to change. You cant have that both ways. She in the last 4 years have had blowouts with everyone. First it was her mother 4 years ago. While on vacation at her mothers she had a huge blow out which let to her not speaking to her mother for 3 years. They do talk now but it isnt the same. I do still talk to her mom and step dad. They feel bad for me but they already know shes done and they no that anything they say to my ex wont change her mind. Then she had a blow out with my sister or nonsence. My sister and my ex were the best of friends for 10 years. Then my sister in law and last she had the biggest problmes with my mother. My mother tried to talk to me at the time but I felt the need to back my wife up. My ex is creative in tellling how things when down and I did believe her. Now that I speak to my mom every day I know better. Now I guess its my turn for her wrath. She is hurting deeply inside and I would love to help her .... I just dont know how. She really is on her own island now feeling the effects of what she has done after all these years. She wouldnt go to theapy or goto marriage counselling. I cant help someone who feels everyone else is in the wrong and its never her. Any advise


Advice? Walk, no run, away and do some healing over the betrayal and then start looking for a partner who is a GOOD choice and who will treat you RIGHT. There are plenty of great women out there who want nothing more than to make some man happy.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> My problem is how did I not know who I was living with for 13 years? She will try to *destroy anyone who gets in her way*.


That *IS* who you were living with for 13 years. You just pleased her enough to not get in her line of sight.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> That *IS* who you were living with for 13 years. You just pleased her enough to not get in her line of sight.


What a fool I was. Least I feel that way now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Advice? Walk, no run, away and do some healing over the betrayal and then start looking for a partner who is a GOOD choice and who will treat you RIGHT. There are plenty of great women out there who want nothing more than to make some man happy.


Your advise turns out is my plan.. Least I'm headed in the right direction
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopefull363

I almost pity your wife right now. She can't see the forest because the trees are in the way. When she wakes up it'll be too late and she'll have lost. Good luck ronin, your a good man.


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## ronin5573

She came home at 6:30. Started crap again in front of kids. She said she was going to johns because I was here. I told the kids she is welcome to stay. I will be in the basement . In the end she left again at 700pm. Pissed me off that she told the kids she was leaving because of me. She left because she wanted to. I talked to the kids and then took them for a nice bike ride. Little exercise will do us good
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

ronin5573 said:


> She came home at 6:30. Started crap again in front of kids. She said she was going to johns because I was here. I told the kids she is welcome to stay. I will be in the basement . In the end she left again at 700pm. Pissed me off that she told the kids she was leaving because of me. She left because she wanted to. I talked to the kids and then took them for a nice bike ride. Little exercise will do us good. Why is she so nasty in front of the kids?????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loveisforever

It seemed that you spoiled your wife in your past. You did not stand up to your value. Your wife seems has a low self-esteem. She needs a man to guide her, even to discipline her when she shows too-selfish side. But you just tried to be a nice guy, not a guy she should look up to. She is now totally lost. She does not know who she is now, but be a play toy of OM.


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## turnera

She's nasty so that she won't be the bad guy. It's just what she does. She's the kid who, when she stole candy, her parents didn't march her back to the store and make her apologize to the owner. She never learned to accept humility and see the reward of doing so. She will NEVER be the bad guy. She doesn't know how.


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## christeeanna

Yes I agree, She and that man are having an affair but have gotten together and agreed not to tell you. No woman spends that much time on the phone with some dumb guy getting advice. She is getting much more than that. If you really love her though just give it time and romance her again. That works! Good luck you sound like a nice guy.


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## Hopefull363

To loveisforever and christeeanna,

Ronin"s wife is on her 2nd boyfriend in their marriage. He is not to blame for her poor choices. At this point I believe he is trying to end his marriage in a constructive manner with the mental health of his children in mind. Somebody has to look out for the mental health of his children because his wife certainly isn't. It sounds like his wife is trying to use them like a pawn in a chess game. Ronin is on the right track.


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## ronin5573

This is her 2nd boyfriend. I have all the info on the new guy but wont to anything to disrupt it. I broke up the first affair but all she did was replace the first guy with a 2nd. Last night she shown no concern for the kids to what she was saying in front of them. So Im going to speak up and set the record stright with the kids then. Im not holding back on anything. I told my stbxw that all we have to discuss is the kids and scheduling. Everything else is up to the lawyer. Last night was the first time I seen her in a week, so I knew she would lash out. She was looking for a fight but all I did was counter her attacks with level headed thinking. I try to avoid her at all costs. Bad for me and the kids. I try to balance the divorce out, taking care of the kids and working a lot at a very stressful job all at the same time. This is the most I have ever had on my plate at one time. I try to eat at least once a day and get the best sleep I can.


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## ronin5573

I got home at 10 last night after work. She called me at work at 9pm and told me to not come home. I said that I would be home and that it. When I got home she was packing her and kids bags as they are leaving sunday morning early to goto disney world. That vacation has been planed for 4 months as we go there offen for a family vacation. So I didnt speak to her and I went to the basement. Played some guitar and watched tv till 1am. I just couldnt sleep at all last night. My mind raced all night. Im worring about this vacation. I dont think she or the kids are up for it to be honest. But my stbxw being the princess that she is wont miss it. The airfare and hotel is all paid up but she will be on her own for park tickets and food. I will not give her money. I did give the kids last night some money so that they could buy things if they wanted to. Im sure my ex wont buy them anything and sah will sayits because I didnt give her money. I feel kind of left out and abondoned today. I have to snap out of it. The emotionally roller coster ride continues.


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> I got home at 10 last night after work. She called me at work at 9pm and told me to not come home. I said that I would be home and that it. When I got home she was packing her and kids bags as they are leaving sunday morning early to goto disney world. That vacation has been planed for 4 months as we go there offen for a family vacation. So I didnt speak to her and I went to the basement. Played some guitar and watched tv till 1am. I just couldnt sleep at all last night. My mind raced all night. Im worring about this vacation. I dont think she or the kids are up for it to be honest. But my stbxw being the princess that she is wont miss it. The airfare and hotel is all paid up but she will be on her own for park tickets and food. I will not give her money. I did give the kids last night some money so that they could buy things if they wanted to. Im sure my ex wont buy them anything and sah will sayits because I didnt give her money. I feel kind of left out and abondoned today. I have to snap out of it. The emotionally roller coster ride continues.


I asked this before -- are you 100% positive the OM is not going with them to Disney ?


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> I asked this before -- are you 100% positive the OM is not going with them to Disney ?


Im not 100%. I'm 95%. I seen an email come though this morning from the airline. It stil had all 4 of our names on it. So Im sure she didnt switch my ticket into someone elses name or the email would have shown it. I really hope she is just talking the kids alone. jh52 why do you ask anyway?


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> Im not 100%. I'm 95%. I seen an email come though this morning from the airline. It stil had all 4 of our names on it. So Im sure she didnt switch my ticket into someone elses name or the email would have shown it. I really hope she is just talking the kids alone. jh52 why do you ask anyway?


Because it would be something else that the kids would be stuck in the middle and would be told to lie to you.

Your stbxw is so far gone --- I just worry about the kids in your situation.


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Because it would be something else that the kids would be stuck in the middle and would be told to lie to you.
> 
> Your stbxw is so far gone --- I just worry about the kids in your situation.


I was up all night worring about them. Im in a bad spot with the way she is acting. I dont know how to let her say the things she is saying to the kids and not be there. Living there with the ex is horible. She makes it horible and she isnt going to let up. I cherish the time I have with the kids now as I know in the future its going to change. Even just tucking them and and giving them a goodnight kiss is a big deal now. I always did that but it really has more meaning now. It is hard being the other party who is left behind.


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## keko

She wont take the kids and run away right?


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## Hopefull363

Ronin,
I don't know ow far into the divorce you are but you can ask the court to assign a guardian to the children. The guardian will talk to your ex and you alone and talk to the children alone. They can court order therapy, make suggestions to the judge for custody and tell your wife to knock off the crap that she's hurting the children. Talk to your lawyer about that possibility.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> She wont take the kids and run away right?


Oh man thanks for that mental image. No I seriously hope not.


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## keko

ronin5573 said:


> Oh man thanks for that mental image. No I seriously hope not.


Have a look at sadfather's thread. His wife took the kids across the country to someone she met online. Can your kids call you if something was to happen, or give you regular updates on where they are/what they're doing?


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Have a look at sadfather's thread. His wife took the kids across the country to someone she met online. Can your kids call you if something was to happen, or give you regular updates on where they are/what they're doing?


Very weird you just said that.
Topic that came up this morning was my daughter bringing her cell phone. My wife didnt want her to bring it. She said that if I want to call the kids then I can call her phone. She said she didnt want my daughter to loose it while on vacation. So I called my daughter this morning. I told her to make sure she brings her phone and the charger. I told her even if her mother said to not bring it. I also told her if she didnt that what would be the point of me paying for her to have a cell phone and that I would have to shut off. She said she would bring it and In the morning when they leave I will make sure that she has it and the charger.


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## keko

Just to be on the safe, make sure the phone is hidden and on vibrate so your wife wont throw it away. Given her mental state don't rule out any possibility.


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## ronin5573

keko said:


> Just to be on the safe, make sure the phone is hidden and on vibrate so your wife wont throw it away. Given her mental state don't rule out any possibility.


I will keep close tab and if need be I can get there in 4 hours. Im talking a few days off next week. I have the time scheduled off for 4 months anyway. Just try to relax and little bit and get my head back in the game.


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## ronin5573

She just sent me a text asking about the settlement which we discussed. I just repied I will have to consult my lawyer. Then she texted saying that she will have her lawyer draw it all up and then give it my lawyer to review. I have mixed feelings about it now. The loose agreement was she keeps the cash she already has, keeps the house with the equity, keeps her car and all the furnature. I keep the cash I have my car and some small household items .. ie one tv the computer things like that. both 401 ks will be left out of it. Joint coustody and a visitation schedule in writing. My only stipulation is she has to waive spouse support. Im mixed in that If I fight her all the way I will get more up front as far as money from the sale of the home. But she will shurely get spouse support. But if she remarrys or lives with a guy then that would by law stop. It is better to take my financial lumps up front and then move on with out having to contend with spouse support, or is it better to split it all up and then roll the spouse support dice. Im thinking at this point better to make the deal if it would go through and then move on. Side benifit would be the kids could go home to their same home everynight. Not to say that after its final she would put it on the market and make a quick sale.


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## the guy

What I've heard about divorce is that my buddies seem to always go back to court for this and that.

My thinking here is don't take the big hit up front...fight and expect going back to court as the kids get older. Your STBXW will take and take and take.

Letting STBXW have alot now seems like she could go back to court and take whats left in the future.

Slipt it up and avoid the finacial lumps now, b/c there may be more to come as the kids get older.

Thats my $0.02


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## jh52

Your stbxw is a real card. She just can't wait till you are divorced. I wouldn't wanna be her when the karma train hits her in the ass !!

Take care Ron !!


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Your stbxw is a real card. She just can't wait till you are divorced. I wouldn't wanna be her when the karma train hits her in the ass !!
> 
> Take care Ron !!


Yea .. she is pretty messed up. But I feel as if im just as messed up for putting up with it for so long


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> Yea .. she is pretty messed up. But I feel as if im just as messed up for putting up with it for so long


Ron you seem to be in a good place.

Don't look back in the past ---- you can't change that -- look to tomorrow and the future !!


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> I was up all night worring about them. Im in a bad spot with the way she is acting. I dont know how to let her say the things she is saying to the kids and not be there. Living there with the ex is horible. She makes it horible and she isnt going to let up. I cherish the time I have with the kids now as I know in the future its going to change. Even just tucking them and and giving them a goodnight kiss is a big deal now. I always did that but it really has more meaning now. It is hard being the other party who is left behind.


 First, look at the 'horrible' that she's throwing at you as a challenge. She wants to be a *****? Make it a challenge to make her even more miserable. Take the kids out on surprise outings without warning her, leaving her home alone. Invite people over and fill the house up for you and the kids with none of her friends. Start doing things that will be just for you and the kids and she's not invited to, and do it there, in the house, while she has to sit back and watch, or leave. Sign the kids up for things that only you and they will do. Any time she tries to make you look bad in front of the kids, give them a wink and give her back as good as she gets; let them see you have a sense of humor about it, you're bigger than that, and you and they are in on something she's not privy to. Have fun with it. And no matter WHAT happens, DO NOT MOVE OUT AND DO NOT LET HER TAKE THE KIDS SOMEWHERE ELSE (call the police on her if she does). She HAS to see you strong right now, or she will run right over you with a steamroller.

Two, why aren't YOU going to DisneyWorld? SHE's the one who wants out of the marriage, why are YOU giving up your vacation? Go with them. Take the kids out in the morning before she wakes up. Have fun with your kids.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> First, look at the 'horrible' that she's throwing at you as a challenge. She wants to be a *****? Make it a challenge to make her even more miserable. Take the kids out on surprise outings without warning her, leaving her home alone. Invite people over and fill the house up for you and the kids with none of her friends. Start doing things that will be just for you and the kids and she's not invited to, and do it there, in the house, while she has to sit back and watch, or leave. Sign the kids up for things that only you and they will do. Any time she tries to make you look bad in front of the kids, give them a wink and give her back as good as she gets; let them see you have a sense of humor about it, you're bigger than that, and you and they are in on something she's not privy to. Have fun with it. And no matter WHAT happens, DO NOT MOVE OUT AND DO NOT LET HER TAKE THE KIDS SOMEWHERE ELSE (call the police on her if she does). She HAS to see you strong right now, or she will run right over you with a steamroller.
> 
> Two, why aren't YOU going to DisneyWorld? SHE's the one who wants out of the marriage, why are YOU giving up your vacation? Go with them. Take the kids out in the morning before she wakes up. Have fun with your kids.


I thought long and hard about disney. Actually agonized over it. In the end I didnt think I was up to it. My kids wouldnt have had a good time with all thats happening. I dont think they will have a good time with their mother either. Disney sounds fun but standing in line for 12 hours a day in 95 deg heat and 90% hunidity takes a toll. My mental and physical state right now mixed with I miss mommy for a week. I decided that passing this vacation would be best. I was surprised when my wife said that she was taking them but thats her call.


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## Hopefull363

ronin,

I know that child support is a given. Ask your lawyer if spousal support is a given since she committed adultery. How many years where you married? The length of time will determine the amount of years you pay spousal support. How long and how much does your lawyer think you would have to pay? Most states have shortened the length of spousal support. They want the spouse to get trained for some field of work and support themselves.

I hate the fact that your wife gets to do this to you and the children and get a free ride.


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> ronin,
> 
> I know that child support is a given. Ask your lawyer if spousal support is a given since she committed adultery. How many years where you married? The length of time will determine the amount of years you pay spousal support. How long and how much does your lawyer think you would have to pay? Most states have shortened the length of spousal support. They want the spouse to get trained for some field of work and support themselves.
> 
> I hate the fact that your wife gets to do this to you and the children and get a free ride.


I'm trying to make a deal with her do I don't pay maintance. Child support isn't an option
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopefull363

Hope things are going as well as they can for you and your children. Would be nice if you didn't have to pay her maintenance. Good Luck


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> Hope things are going as well as they can for you and your children. Would be nice if you didn't have to pay her maintenance. Good Luck


No maintenance would mean giving her the house.... and I think it might be worth it. Im still debating it

They left sunday morning for Disney. I got up and seen them off at 5am. Of course my stbxw was being nasty to me again. Least my daughter has her cell phone and is calling every day.


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## Hopefull363

Your kids will see through her eventually. If not already. She's putting them in the middle by having them get to know her boyfriend. They don't know how to react right now since they love their dad too. It's a sucky place for them to be. Believe me my mother did that to me when i was 12 and my parents were still married.


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## Prodigal

ronin - Just a suggestion. Would you consider starting a new thread after they return from Disney? You could put a link to this post for those who need to get up-to-speed.

My reason for suggesting that is this thread could, possibly, use more input. Sometimes when threads go on for so long and get pushed down the line, they become "stale."

Please do not take this as a criticism. I want you to get as much advice and support as possible. You have really stomached a terrible amount of sh!t from your crazy wife.

We want to be here for you. I want this to turn out for the best, because you sound like a real stand-up man. Unfortunately, life is frequently unfair. However, I believe you really deserve a break.

Keep posting. Good thoughts coming your way.


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## ronin5573

Prodigal said:


> ronin - Just a suggestion. Would you consider starting a new thread after they return from Disney? You could put a link to this post for those who need to get up-to-speed.
> 
> My reason for suggesting that is this thread could, possibly, use more input. Sometimes when threads go on for so long and get pushed down the line, they become "stale."
> 
> Please do not take this as a criticism. I want you to get as much advice and support as possible. You have really stomached a terrible amount of sh!t from your crazy wife.
> 
> We want to be here for you. I want this to turn out for the best, because you sound like a real stand-up man. Unfortunately, life is frequently unfair. However, I believe you really deserve a break.
> 
> Keep posting. Good thoughts coming your way.


Maybe I will start a new post. I started this thread for advise and as a way of one day looking back on it all and realizing how far I have come in a short time. Today Im back to work. I took monday - wendsday off. The time away did me some good. I went out shopping, bought some new chothes, went to dinners and things like that. It was nice to be at home without all the nuttyness. I tried to enjoy the house a little bit as my time there will be short. Ex and kids wont be back untill last saturday afternoon. So 2 more days. I do miss the kids and cant wait to see them. Im dreading the ex comming back.


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## ronin5573

The kids got home from Florida on Saturday at 7pm. I got home at about 9. Kids were tired and already in bed. I talked with them for a few minuites each, but wanted them to get some sleep. I spoke with my stbxw for about 5 minuites. Mostly about the kids schedule for the comming week. Then she said she was leaving. She went to her boyfriends. I had a few bets with some family members that she would. Most thought she wouldnt because after a long week she would be tired and not want to drive to Indiana. BF lives about 90 mins away. So I won a few bucks. She wont be home untill monday night after work. We got up in the moringing and I chated with them and then we decided to goto a Fun land. ski ball and go karts and lazer tag.... things like that and had a good time. We stoped on the way home and had some dinner and then went home. When we got home my daughter just started crying. Wheres mommy when is she comming home. I almost wanted to cry with her. I tried to console her and make her feel better. I get real angry for the way my stbxw is acting and how its affecting the kids. I feel overwhelmed but will keep going.


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## turnera

Are you documenting all this?


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Are you documenting all this?


I have logged eveything that has happened since 6/17/12. Every day I write down that happened that day. Kids told me today that their mother told them on saturday that today after they are picked up they are going with her to indiana. Its her BF daughters birthday. So my guess is they will be home late. Im very courious if my ex keeps running around like this as the kids go back to school on Thursday. I wont allow this crap anymore when they are in school.


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> I have logged eveything that has happened since 6/17/12. Every day I write down that happened that day. Kids told me today that their mother told them on saturday that today after they are picked up they are going with her to indiana. Its her BF daughters birthday. So my guess is they will be home late. Im very courious if my ex keeps running around like this as the kids go back to school on Thursday. I wont allow this crap anymore when they are in school.


How long has your stbxw known this OM ?? Sounds like they are blending two families (birthday parties, baby sitting your kids with his oldest kids) into one.

Seems odd if they just started the affair. -- IMO


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> How long has your stbxw known this OM ?? Sounds like they are blending two families (birthday parties, baby sitting your kids with his oldest kids) into one.
> 
> Seems odd if they just started the affair. -- IMO


Truth is ... I really dont know. I think its been going on a few months. She is looking for her next sugar daddy. I think she now realizes that my financial support is gone. She is looking for someone to take care of her. Will he? I dont know as all guys are different. I know that Im done with her and am going to keep moving forward with the divorce. I really do try not to think about the OM. We were married for 13 and together for 15 years and the though of her doing this hurts. The thought of her doing this with my children down right makes me furious. Seems like she is looking the blend her side with his. Shes trying to latch on anyway she can.


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> Truth is ... I really dont know. I think its been going on a few months. She is looking for her next sugar daddy. I think she now realizes that my financial support is gone. She is looking for someone to take care of her. Will he? I dont know as all guys are different. I know that Im done with her and am going to keep moving forward with the divorce. I really do try not to think about the OM. We were married for 13 and together for 15 years and the though of her doing this hurts. The thought of her doing this with my children down right makes me furious. Seems like she is looking the blend her side with his. Shes trying to latch on anyway she can.


Ron -- you take care of yourself and the kids.


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## turnera

Remind me: do her parents know she's doing this?


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Remind me: do her parents know she's doing this?


Ive spoke with her mom and step dad a few times in the last few months. My ex hasnt had a very good relashinship with them in the past. She has done the things to them that she doing with me in the past. Her father in law has totally wrote her off 5 years ago. Her mom was very symphetic and understands to my side of things. She told me that she has tried to speak and talk some sence to my ex. But like my words, her moms just fell on deff ears. There is nothing her mother can do to make my ex see things as they are. I dont think she wants to talk anymore as she is really bothered by it all. Her mom lives in South Carolina. So meeting with her is almost impossible. They think what she is doing to wrong but they also know there is nothing they can do.


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## Shaggy

Why is she allowed to take them out of state without your permission?


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## turnera

Good question. What legal rights have you got going?


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Good question. What legal rights have you got going?


At this point there are no judges orders. She has every legal right to take them. There is no RO or anything like that. Trying to prevent her is impossible unless I get a RO. Im not sure if I want to play that card yet. Not unless I go for custody.


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## Hopefull363

Have you been able to find counseling for yourself and or the children yet? What has your lawyer told you about your chances of getting custody? What does he suggest you do while waiting for divorce?


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> Have you been able to find counseling for yourself and or the children yet? What has your lawyer told you about your chances of getting custody? What does he suggest you do while waiting for divorce?


I had a long talk about custody with my lawyer. Based on the hours I work, and the fact that my ex was the primary care giver for the bulk of their lives, odds are not good. As far as waiting, he said try to treat her like a person at work. No fighting. Neither I nor are the kids in counseling at this time.


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## Hopefull363

It's very difficult and unfair for fathers here in the US. Women almost always get full custody, even if they are not the most fit parent. Because the father is the breadwinner is loses out on the children. I think it should automatically be shared custody unless is can be proved it shouldn't be.


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## Sbrown

Hopefull363 said:


> It's very difficult and unfair for fathers here in the US. Women almost always get full custody, even if they are not the most fit parent. Because the father is the breadwinner is loses out on the children. I think it should automatically be shared custody unless is can be proved it shouldn't be.


Depends on your attorney! I always recommend you find an attorney that ONLY represents men in D. I work with two guys that used the same attorney and they both have FULL custody. It can happen.


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## ronin5573

I got home last night at 9pm. My stbxw picked the kids up at my moms at 4. Then off to indiana she went. I got home and 930 pm. She didnt get home with the kids untill 11:50 pm. The kids went to bed. I was already in bed half asleep. She unlocked the Bedroom door and turned on all the lights. Was yelling telling me to just leave. I told her to go back to her BF and if she wasnt happy then to just sleep there. After 5 mins of venom she retired to the downstairs couch. She talked to her BF for the next hour. She was mad and was venting to him. I got up at 630 and got a shower and dressed as I work today all day again. Went downstairs and she was up. More venom but I just tried to ignore her. Everything that she has done in the last months has been about her getting me to leave the house and not come back. She is runnign out of ideas. After I left her BF called the house phone. We have comcast so it sends a message to my phone when there is a call. Since 715 am and 9 he called the house phone 4 times. Im not sure why. He has never called the house phone before. But good news is I now have his cell phone number. Im not sure what shes planning tonight. But Im expecting the worst. Maybe they are have a fight, why would he call my house phone? Dont know but am sure I will find out later on today. I will be on guard when I get home as Im sure there ploting


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## turnera

They are hatching a plan to get you out. Be sure you always have a voice recorder on you. And look into installing some cameras in the house.


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## turnera

He calls your house phone because they have determined it's HIS house now, just a matter of time til they can get you out.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> He calls your house phone because they have determined it's HIS house now, just a matter of time til they can get you out.


You could be right. I know that her main goal is to get me gone. I dont know how he fits in to all of this at this point. He has his own house and kids. He doesn't need my house. Is he trying to be her knight in shining armour comming to her rescue? I dont know. I think She is putting a lot of pressure on him at this point. How will he react to that pressure is anyones guess. My wife is looking for someone to take care of her so shes willing to do just about anything to make sure he's going to be there for her. She has demonstrated this many times in the past. We will see what happens when I get home tonight. I have everything in place for myself if she does something stupid like RO or has the BF confront me. I have another place all setup at my parents with some cash in the rare case Im arrested.


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## Sbrown

Carry the VAR


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## turnera

Write to your lawyer today and tell him your concerns. That way, it's documented BEFORE something happens.


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## warlock07

ronin5573 said:


> You could be right. I know that her main goal is to get me gone. I dont know how he fits in to all of this at this point. He has his own house and kids. He doesn't need my house. Is he trying to be her knight in shining armour comming to her rescue? I dont know. I think She is putting a lot of pressure on him at this point. How will he react to that pressure is anyones guess. My wife is looking for someone to take care of her so shes willing to do just about anything to make sure he's going to be there for her.  She has demonstrated this many times in the past. We will see what happens when I get home tonight. I have everything in place for myself if she does something stupid like RO or has the BF confront me. I have another place all setup at my parents with some cash in the rare case Im arrested.


talk to him. You might get some important information by luck. If he is just taunting you or asking about your wife, you end immediately end the phone call.


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> talk to him. You might get some important information by luck. If he is just taunting you or asking about your wife, you end immediately end the phone call.


Warlock. I thank you for you advise. Ive been thinking of calling him for weeks. Im not going to at this point. I dont think anything good will come of it. I dont want her back so breaking up her thing isnt going to help my position. I have all the info I need at this point. The rest will come in time. If she feels secure and this guy will be there for her then I will make her fight less in the divorce settlement. She wants it done and over with. So if I can use this to my advantage during the divorce then I will. I can always call him later if I find out thats not the case.


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## joni

She never sees you, ronin. How do you expect a woman to relate to a figment of her imagination. 70 to 75 hours a week and 2 young children who also need their father. 

Make a major change in your work schedule (or get another job), and you might have a chance at getting your wife back in your arms.


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## Prodigal

joni said:


> Make a major change in your work schedule (or get another job), and you might have a chance at getting your wife back in your arms.


I don't know if you've read this post from the beginning. Perhaps you should go back and review the entire story. Ronin's wife is a multiple adulterer who treats him like sh!t. She wants him out of their marital home, out of her life, and she's using their children as pawns.

At this point, I think his work hours are not applicable to her coming back to his arms. In fact, she's been cheating on him, and playing him for a fool, for quite some time.

He doesn't want her back. She doesn't want him back.

That's it, in a nutshell.


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## Sbrown

joni said:


> She never sees you, ronin. How do you expect a woman to relate to a figment of her imagination. 70 to 75 hours a week and 2 young children who also need their father.
> 
> Make a major change in your work schedule (or get another job), and you might have a chance at getting your wife back in your arms.


I hope you really don't think hard work is a good reason to D someone.


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## AFEH

ronin5573 said:


> Maybe I will start a new post. I started this thread for advise and as a way of one day looking back on it all and realizing how far I have come in a short time. Today Im back to work. I took monday - wendsday off. The time away did me some good. I went out shopping, bought some new chothes, went to dinners and things like that. It was nice to be at home without all the nuttyness. I tried to enjoy the house a little bit as my time there will be short. Ex and kids wont be back untill last saturday afternoon. So 2 more days. I do miss the kids and cant wait to see them. Im dreading the ex comming back.


Does the company you work for know of your situation? Doing the hours you do and the stress you are under at home you are at risk of burn-out and a nervous breakdown.

Good companies have ways of helping with these things, they may be able to give you time off without loss of hol entitlement or salary and give you access to some specialised resources.

If you think you’ll get a sympathetic ear it’s worth having a chat. Just tell them what’s going on as a heads-up in case you’ve got to call in, cancel meetings, if they need to cover for you at short notice that sort of thing.


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## ronin5573

Sbrown said:


> I hope you really don't think hard work is a good reason to D someone.


Some folks believe in marriage as I once did . I also know now that it takes 2 committed people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

Well today was a real adventure. Kids first day of school today. I have always tried to make it a big deal. So I got up early and got dressed. Woke the kids up at 7am. Wife was home last night and I slept in the basement to avoid conflict. This morning I got up got dressed early to make breakfast. I love making the kids breakfast and try to make it special for the first day of school. So made french toast, fresh fruit and things like that. They came down and started eating. Here comes the ex in her usually mood. She started in right away about me moving out. I told here for the 1000'th time that Im not moving untill things are finalized and asked her to please stop. The kids are going to school for the first day and dont need to be stressed out by her bantering. She wouldnt let up. She then started to tell the kids that she refuses to live in the same house with me. If I would leave then she could live there. Not wanted the kids to believe her lies I told them that mom can live here and she is welcome. Its not my fault that she chooses not too. She had some other vile comments. I simply explained to them the reason mommy doesnt live there is not me, its because she chooses to live with her boyfriend John. I told them that she is choosing John and his family over them but not to worry that I would always be there for them no matter what she does. She then threw out the kids french toast and gave them pancakes that she made. Ummm Ok so they were all freaked out but I tried to spend a little time with them inspite of what the ex was saying. She got so angry that I wasnt feeding into her BS that she came over to the table and started squeezing maple surip on me. I really couldnt belive it. I took it out of her hands and then squeezed some on her. she then came back at me and there was surip all over the kitchen. I back way off as the kids were scared. I told them to go upstairs and get dressed for school. She then threw a plate of pancakes at me. Man I think she is really on the verge of a nervous break-down. She had to go upstairs to shower again and change clothes. I had to do the same. When I came back the kids were dressed and combing there hair. She was in the kitchen cleaning up her mess. I told her that she really is very sick and she needs help. I offered to pay for a theripist for her if she was willing to go. She just insulted me. and asked me to move out again. I know why she is so desperate for me to move. Kids are in school now and it will be really hard for her to spend time with john now with the kids schedule. She wants me gone to have him over. I told her its not going to happen. She then called john in front of me. Told her a very jaded view of what had happened. I asked to speak to him. He agreed and she gave me her phone. I told him the situation. what she was -doing to the kids. I also told her what the 2 of them do together is their business but I have 2 stipulations. 1. i dont want him in my house at all untill things are finalized. 2 I dont want to kids to spend the night at his house ever. He didnt respond as the ex ripped the phone away from me. I think she thought I was going to threaten him of something, but I didnt I was very leven headed about it all. Then they hung up and I told the kids I would drive them to the bus stop. It was rainign out. Ex jumped in and said no she would do it. So to avoid further drama I kissed them good by and told them to have a good first day and that I would be home when they get off the bus. Then I came to work. Wow what a morning. I wont let her get me to the point of snapping but she is almost there. She is so mentally sick right now but she just doenst see it. I would love to get her some help but she wont allow it.


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## the guy

Sorry brother but the maple sirup had me LOL, I know it sucks but maybe you can find some humor init to brighten up your day.

I also like how you handled the call to OM, has this happened before? If not its a good way to deal with it. I mean if she ever call OM infront of you again ask to talk to him. In away you can fillabuster there conversation by continueing to ask to speak to him until OM hangs up or your STXW hangs up.

Have you ever seen the movie "War of The Roses" do you know what happens at the end?


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## ronin5573

the guy said:


> Sorry brother but the maple sirup had me LOL, I know it sucks but maybe you can find some humor init to brighten up your day.
> 
> I also like how you handled the call to OM, has this happened before? If not its a good way to deal with it. I mean if she ever call OM infront of you again ask to talk to him.
> 
> Have you ever seen the movie "War of The Roses" do you know what happens at the end?


I have seen war of the roses.. LOL they both die. Hopefully it wont go that far. I check her internet histoy and she was looking at apartments and hotels. Looks like were going to have another confilct tonight. She can go but not the kids.


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## the guy

Another interesting point here.

I wonder if you can talk the kids in to having a maple surrup fight, it might be a funny way to show your STBXW what an examble she is showing.


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## the guy

Hay, I'm glad I could make you laugh during such a crap time.It will get better.


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## the guy

Have you though about putting stickypost all over the house that read "I'm not leaving".

This seems to be going on for a while, she is not getting anywere with this tyoe of behavior...I wish she could just live with it until the D is finalized but thats just to logical I guess.


Still a bunch of signs that say "I'm not leaving" may get the point across since logic has failed STBXW


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## Hopefull363

Wow Ronin, I hope you had the VAR going during that. Maple syrup must have been some mess for her to clean up. This is some mess for the kids. If you had the VAR going play it for your attorney and ask him if there is anyway you can get the kids mandated counseling. I feel so bad for them with what she's doing to them.


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> Wow Ronin, I hope you had the VAR going during that. Maple syrup must have been some mess for her to clean up. This is some mess for the kids. If you had the VAR going play it for your attorney and ask him if there is anyway you can get the kids mandated counseling. I feel so bad for them with what she's doing to them.


actually i thought it was running but i hit the wrong button. She snapped totally and completey snapped


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## jh52

Just be careful she doesn't call the police and accuse you of something more serious and get a restraining order against you. You really don't know how low she will go to get you out of the house. I know the syrup thing seems funny -- but she wants you gone now ---

Buy a VAR and keep it on yourself whenever she is around -- for your own good.


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Just be careful she doesn't call the police and accuse you of something more serious and get a restraining order against you. You really don't know how low she will go to get you out of the house. I know the syrup thing seems funny -- but she wants you gone now ---
> 
> Buy a VAR and keep it on yourself whenever she is around -- for your own good.


Its like everyday is a new adventure, unfortunatly this adventure all happens in front of the kids. She's out from blood now and I will have to be real careful. Her main goal is to keep her new BF on the hook and she isnt quite sure how to make that work now the kids are in school.


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## Hopefull363

I wonder since she called her new boyfriend during this, what he thinks? Maybe he's starting to realize she's batsh1t crazy and will start distancing himself from her. Why would he want to get involved in this mess?


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## A Bit Much

Hopefull363 said:


> I wonder since she called her new boyfriend during this, what he thinks? Maybe he's starting to realize she's batsh1t crazy and will start distancing himself from her. Why would he want to get involved in this mess?


The man is just interested in getting ass, not going through this drama. He'll take it as long as she keeps coming to his bed every night. Not invested in her emotionally at all.


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## turnera

the guy said:


> Another interesting point here.
> 
> I wonder if you can talk the kids in to having a maple surrup fight, it might be a funny way to show your STBXW what an examble she is showing.


 I'm very concerned. Your kids are freaking out right now, and they likely don't feel they can share that with either ONE of you now. You went over the line; you could have taken it away from her and thrown it away, THEN you would have looked like the level-headed, trustworthy dad they thought they had. 

OTOH, having a maple syrup fest with them may just help them de-stress over the syrup and realize how ridiculous it all was. 

I do hope you apologize to your kids this afternoon and tell them you'll never lose control again.

And please stop telling them that their mom doesn't want them, but wants another family!  Kids BELIEVE that stuff!


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> I'm very concerned. Your kids are freaking out right now, and they likely don't feel they can share that with either ONE of you now. You went over the line; you could have taken it away from her and thrown it away, THEN you would have looked like the level-headed, trustworthy dad they thought they had.
> 
> OTOH, having a maple syrup fest with them may just help them de-stress over the syrup and realize how ridiculous it all was.
> 
> I do hope you apologize to your kids this afternoon and tell them you'll never lose control again.
> It was wrong. But I can only get slamed in front of my kids do many times and at some point I have to defend myself to them.
> And please stop telling them that their mom doesn't want them, but wants another family!  Kids BELIEVE that stuff!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I'm not telling you to not defend yourself. I'm telling you to think more clearly what you are saying and doing. YOU didn't have to pour syrup. You let your emotions get the best of you when you should have been thinking of your kids who were watching. And you sure as hell should never tell anyone younger than at least 15 that their mom would rather have some OTHER family. They aren't capable of determining the nuances in that statement - all they hear is that mom wants to dump us; we are unloved.

My friend's mom told her when she was around 6 or 7 that if she didn't behave, she was going to take her back to 'the store' and get a new kid, one who will behave. With that ONE sentence, which took less than a minute to say, my friend's life changed forever. She became the good child, who never asked for anything, never spoke up, never lived her own life, still to this day in her late 50s lives with her mom so she can take care of her 24/7 - all because she believed her mom would get rid of her.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> I'm not telling you to not defend yourself. I'm telling you to think more clearly what you are saying and doing. YOU didn't have to pour syrup. You let your emotions get the best of you when you should have been thinking of your kids who were watching. And you sure as hell should never tell anyone younger than at least 15 that their mom would rather have some OTHER family. They aren't capable of determining the nuances in that statement - all they hear is that mom wants to dump us; we are unloved.
> 
> My friend's mom told her when she was around 6 or 7 that if she didn't behave, she was going to take her back to 'the store' and get a new kid, one who will behave. With that ONE sentence, which took less than a minute to say, my friend's life changed forever. She became the good child, who never asked for anything, never spoke up, never lived her own life, still to this day in her late 50s lives with her mom so she can take care of her 24/7 - all because she believed her mom would get rid of her.


Point taken
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Patrick1959

Ronin

Your situation is heart breaking, your wife seems to have a serious emotional disorder (Borderline Personality Traits/ Disorder); and worst of all she refuses treatment. 

Many get caught up in relationships with women who have borderline personalities. When in love the affection and passion is incredible: but when the honeymoon period ends,the anger and hatred is equally intense. 

Be very cautious and try to avoid fighting with her; this is what she wants, but she will not consider the consequences and the outcome will be bad for everyone. Also keep in mind that you don't know what she is telling others about you, so be very careful. Keep documenting and get witnesses about what is going on. 

Since the school year has just started you may also want to speak with your children's teachers or a counselor at the school so they can look out for how your children are coping. Also this lets you start with a clear record of what is going on before your wife gives them her spin. Since she is preoccupied with her boyfriend and may not think of this as a means to attack you.

Talking with the BF has benefits and risk. Since you don't know what he is told it may be a good opportunity to set the record straight and the last thing that you and your children need is more confrontation. He is probably more rational than your wife so it may calm the situation, but if he realizes what your wife is like he may run before your divorce and those with borderline personalities are greatly agitated by abandonment. Also it may be hard to predict how your wife would respond to finding you that you have spoken with her BF.

Here are some Internet sites that may help:
NIMH · What are the symptoms of borderline personality disorder?
Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners
Helping Families with Borderline Personality and Bipolar Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder Internet Resources

Here are some books that may help:
1. Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder, How to Keep Out-of-Control Emotions from Destroying Your Relationship
BOOK REVIEW: Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder- Shari Y. Manning, PhD
2. Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder 
Amazon.com: Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder (9781608820252): Randi Kreger, Bill Eddy LCSW JD: Books


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## capri7204

I am sorry to hear about your marriage. I am 41 years old have been married for 12 years and have two kids 9 and 6. I can tell you from experience marriage is hard work. 

The hours you have does not leave you much time for your marriage and unfortunately that time away has made you drift. Why she would go for a much older man makes no sense. She may feel he is giving her the attention she feels you are not dedicating to her. 

Kids as you know are overwhelming and me and my husband kind of feel more like roommates than husband/wife but, it just means we have to work a lot harder at it.

It seems to me that no amount of counseling is going to work for you if you wife does not want to try to make it work. I am sorry about what you are going through. I feel for those kids as well. Good luck.


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## ronin5573

Her only goal at this point is to get me out of the house. She for the last month as gone to extremes to get me to move. She is now running out of ideas on how to do that because I havent responded the way she wanted me too. She knows that while the kids are in school, it was be almost impossible to keep going back and forth to indiana to see her boyfriend. With me gone, she will have him over at my house. She knows that will never happen so long as I there. So I think her next step will be to get a emergency order of protection. That will keep me away legally for 60 days. If she wants to go and lie to a judge, then thats on her. Judges dont like people exploting the system and it will weigh heavly in the future of the divorce.


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## Hopefull363

Especially if you keep your VAR with you. Then you can file against her for making false police reports.


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> Especially if you keep your VAR with you. Then you can file against her for making false police reports.


Ive been pretty good in the last 2 month at predecting her moves. Time will tell if im right. But I think this is what she's going to do. I spoke with my lawyer about it and we have a plan in place if this is the road she wants to go down.


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## warlock07

Option to consider - Nanny cams


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## turnera

Yeah, I would definitely have cameras installed.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Yeah, I would definitely have cameras installed.


The cost is a lot higher then most think. Not to mention that she would find them eventually and rip them out. If Im legally removed, there are other way to check that the kids are ok. The state of Illinois has programs that they will send someone to the house 2 times a week to check on the welfair of the kids and things like that.


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## 2behappy

wow...just WOW.....I've spent the last three days (time permitting) reading through your current life story....as though I was reading someones daily diary. Your situation is so sad....your direction is awesome and your calmness through this will surly prove you as a hero to your children when they look back reflecting on these years. The advise and constant daily friendship that you've been given here is priceless....as I can only imagine where you could be without having this "sounding block". Counceling is a must for the children...I'm not a believer either necessarily...but the thought of an adolescent mind is much different than us as adults. Two of my 5 children are Russian adoptions at the age of 3...now 11...and one did benefit hugely from counceling....it's just about finding that perfect fit. The biggest plus for you is that you did move back into the home...you are concerned about their well being and you reassure them of your love constantly. YOU ARE A GOOD DADDY!!!! And seem as well to be such a wonderful man. You see my situation is similar in reference to the work. I work the long hours....and yes, to keep up the life style that my family is used to. Has it cost me in my marriage, yes.....but even today when he asked for $200 to purchase our 7 year old a new bat for baseball season it was there to hand to him. ((sign)) as in reality...it's "me" that's the lonely one in my 30 year marriage....thus my reading here. You're a good man....and this too will pass but the years ahead of you, sharing custody will probably always be problematic. Hopefully in time YOU can find someone who appreciates you and find self happiness outside of the children...making you whole again. Sending happy thoughts your way for today!


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## ronin5573

2behappy said:


> wow...just WOW.....I've spent the last three days (time permitting) reading through your current life story....as though I was reading someones daily diary. Your situation is so sad....your direction is awesome and your calmness through this will surly prove you as a hero to your children when they look back reflecting on these years. The advise and constant daily friendship that you've been given here is priceless....as I can only imagine where you could be without having this "sounding block". Counceling is a must for the children...I'm not a believer either necessarily...but the thought of an adolescent mind is much different than us as adults. Two of my 5 children are Russian adoptions at the age of 3...now 11...and one did benefit hugely from counceling....it's just about finding that perfect fit. The biggest plus for you is that you did move back into the home...you are concerned about their well being and you reassure them of your love constantly. YOU ARE A GOOD DADDY!!!! And seem as well to be such a wonderful man. You see my situation is similar in reference to the work. I work the long hours....and yes, to keep up the life style that my family is used to. Has it cost me in my marriage, yes.....but even today when he asked for $200 to purchase our 7 year old a new bat for baseball season it was there to hand to him. ((sign)) as in reality...it's "me" that's the lonely one in my 30 year marriage....thus my reading here. You're a good man....and this too will pass but the years ahead of you, sharing custody will probably always be problematic. Hopefully in time YOU can find someone who appreciates you and find self happiness outside of the children...making you whole again. Sending happy thoughts your way for today!


Thank you for you kind words. This forum has really been a god sent. I knew I would get some great advise which inspired me to post in the first place. Some of the advise I didnt take fast enough, like moving back home. Actually moving out in the first place was a mistake looking back. Posting here is like therapy for me. I have read my own post many times from start to finish. Im impressed with myself how far I have come in 2 months. It isnt over yet and your statement is going to be accurate that things will be problematic even after the divorce.
Everyday is a new adventure now and we will see what happend in the next few weeks now that the divorce is really getting into full motion.


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## 2behappy

In reference to a RO.....as I spend a great deal of time in law.... it truly doesn't take much these days as it's "on the judge" should something "bad" happen and he/she not have issued the order upon the question of danger or violence. Hopefully it wont come to that as it would truly cause havoc to your life and your freedom. I've seen shocking cases that a RO was issued with absolutely no true warrant. Sad....


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## ronin5573

2behappy said:


> In reference to a RO.....as I spend a great deal of time in law.... it truly doesn't take much these days as it's "on the judge" should something "bad" happen and he/she not have issued the order upon the question of danger or violence. Hopefully it wont come to that as it would truly cause havoc to your life and your freedom. I've seen shocking cases that a RO was issued with absolutely no true warrant. Sad....


You are correct. Keep in mind this is will county Illinois. The the wake of the Drew Peterson case they will give her one with out really questioning it. I know this and am prepared.


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## ronin5573

I had a great weekend. My stbx had the kids all weekend and they spent it with her BF in indiana. I worked saturday night then went out with a friend and we had a great time. On sunday ran some arrands and went to my sisters for dinner. I got home at 9pm and they were just getting home. I said hi to the kids and then read a book with my son. He was not very talkative about his weekend but thats ok. I made up my mind that I would not use the kids for information. If they tell I will listen other then that, I will not ask questions.


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## Ducky316

I'm so sorry you're going through this...but yes, I think it's time to let her go. There are no words of comfort in the dictionary that I can say that will make you feel better about it....I can only say what's true, and that is it won't hurt forever, and everyday will be better than the day before.


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## Sbrown

It always seems like a mountain until you get to the top and then it seems like a mole hill. You got this!


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## ronin5573

I given a lot of thought to my actions in the past few months. Ive come to the conclusion that I holding on to tight. Things are changing and will continue to change now and after the divorce. She this weekend spent the night with her boyfriend with the kids. This is something I was totally against. Maybe she did it a huge F you. Maybe she did it to see if I would go there and start problems. Either way I have to start letting it all go. I dont think the kids are in any phyical harm at this point. There emotional state is really bad that has always been my main concern. My stbx does'nt see this. She is going to do what she must to continue her fling with the OM. My daughter is in the worst shape. She feels the need to back her mom up as her mother is filling her head with some bad things about me. My ex speaks is absolute negetives about me and I think its her way of dealing with it all. My kids hear all of this and deciced to back their mother If my kids come to me, and that may take some time, then I will always be there. I will talk with them dailey but if they dont want to share things about what they did with their mom then I wont press it. Even if my ex is putting them in the middle, that doesnt mean I have too. Its time to take the high road for their sake. Of course I worry, of course Im scared for them but in the end I think my actions are making it worse on them. I starting now will not speak with my ex about anything unless regarding the kids and their schedule. I wont bring up anything with them regarding what goes on with their mother unless they do. I cant make them feel that they are in the middle of this. They feel they are now and thats a bad place for kids to be in at their age. Any imput on my new resoultion would be great.


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> I given a lot of thought to my actions in the past few months. Ive come to the conclusion that I holding on to tight. Things are changing and will continue to change now and after the divorce. She this weekend spent the night with her boyfriend with the kids. This is something I was totally against. Maybe she did it a huge F you. Maybe she did it to see if I would go there and start problems. Either way I have to start letting it all go. I dont think the kids are in any phyical harm at this point. There emotional state is really bad that has always been my main concern. My stbx does'nt see this. She is going to do what she must to continue her fling with the OM. My daughter is in the worst shape. She feels the need to back her mom up as her mother is filling her head with some bad things about me. My ex speaks is absolute negetives about me and I think its her way of dealing with it all. My kids hear all of this and deciced to back their mother If my kids come to me, and that may take some time, then I will always be there. I will talk with them dailey but if they dont want to share things about what they did with their mom then I wont press it. Even if my ex is putting them in the middle, that doesnt mean I have too. Its time to take the high road for their sake. Of course I worry, of course Im scared for them but in the end I think my actions are making it worse on them. I starting now will not speak with my ex about anything unless regarding the kids and their schedule. I wont bring up anything with them regarding what goes on with their mother unless they do. I cant make them feel that they are in the middle of this. They feel they are now and thats a bad place for kids to be in at their age. Any imput on my new resoultion would be great.


I think you plan is a good start. I also think you need to talk to them each indiviually and tell them that:

1) You love them
2) You will always be their father 
3) You will always be there to support them
4) You will always answer any questions -- and never lie or ask them to lie
5) What is happening between you and their mother is NOT their fault. Kids tend to always blame themselves

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Good luck !!


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## turnera

The most important thing you can do at this point is find an EXCELLENT family therapist and start going with your kids. On a regular basis.


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## ronin5573

Following my new moto of leaving her alone. On Sunday night I asked her if she had anything to discuss as far as the kids are concerned. All she did was give me the finger. So I woke up monday morning and went to work. Then she decides she wants to talk. She called me 5 times and I didnt pick the phone up. She sent me 5 or so text messages and I didnt reply. I left work at 9 and went and had a drink and dinner with a buddy of mine. She tried to call a few times after 9 and I refused to pick up. I know what she wanted. She is off work today so last night she wanted to leave so she could go see John and wanted to know when I would be home. Fact is I asked her to not have the kids spend the night at her BF house. They did on Saturday night. She wont respect my wishes even though its in the best intrest of our kids. So I spent the night at my parents house. She couldnt go there last night as the kids have school now. I cant let her control me anymore. Shes out for blood now. Last night the OM called my house phone 4 times and him and my ex talked till 1am. Comcast has this cool iphone app that tells you when the home phone rings so I know whos calling and for how long. I will go home tonight as Im off work tommrow and Im sure it will be a fight. VAR will be on when I walk in.


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## turnera

Make sure the kids get sent to a friend's house first, please. REFUSE to talk until they are gone.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Make sure the kids get sent to a friend's house first, please. REFUSE to talk until they are gone.


For over a month she hasnt felt the need to shelter the kids from her outbursts. She does it when even about anything she pleases. Its going to be on me from now on to walk away. She isnt and refuses to take the kids in to concideration. Shes in an affair fog still and thats what shes worried about, not me or the kids mental wellbeing. This is the hardest thing I have even gone through.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

I can't WAIT until you nail her ass to the wall.

Boy is she going to be surprised with the VAR and all of your evidence when it comes out. 

You need to be prepared for her to do something "really drastic" when she finds out that she's been screwed all along and didn't know it.

I know you have a lawyer and are anticipating all the moves and you've been doing a great job--just be preapred for ANYTHING--you might have only seen the tip of the iceberg when she finds out that you have ALL THE GOODS on her.

This is like watching a weekly soap opera--you can't wait for the next installment (sorry...I know it's not, but can't help but feel that way).

I'm just so glad that a wayward parent is finally going to get theirs instead of lying and deceiving the court and screwing over the "right" parent.


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## ronin5573

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I can't WAIT until you nail her ass to the wall.
> 
> Boy is she going to be surprised with the VAR and all of your evidence when it comes out.
> 
> You need to be prepared for her to do something "really drastic" when she finds out that she's been screwed all along and didn't know it.
> 
> I know you have a lawyer and are anticipating all the moves and you've been doing a great job--just be preapred for ANYTHING--you might have only seen the tip of the iceberg when she finds out that you have ALL THE GOODS on her.
> 
> This is like watching a weekly soap opera--you can't wait for the next installment (sorry...I know it's not, but can't help but feel that way).
> 
> I'm just so glad that a wayward parent is finally going to get theirs instead of lying and deceiving the court and screwing over the "right" parent.


Its not about nailing her to the wall. Now its about getting myself and the kids through this the best way I can. I just want to put her past me and then never look back....... ever.


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## A Bit Much

She's one hateful person right now. I don't really know or see what you did to deserve this treatment, but please don't allow her to bully you into anything you don't sincerely want to do.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> For over a month she hasnt felt the need to shelter the kids from her outbursts. She does it when even about anything she pleases. Its going to be on me from now on to walk away. She isnt and refuses to take the kids in to concideration. Shes in an affair fog still and thats what shes worried about, not me or the kids mental wellbeing. This is the hardest thing I have even gone through.


 SO WHAT?!

YOU are a (supposedly) responsible adult who is supposed to have his kids' welfare to heart. YOU can't walk the kids next door when she starts in on you?


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> SO WHAT?!
> 
> YOU are a (supposedly) responsible adult who is supposed to have his kids' welfare to heart. YOU can't walk the kids next door when she starts in on you?


She carries on when ever she wants in front of anyone. I will from now on just go into the basement and Im sure she will follow. Least that way the kids wont have to hear it.


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## turnera

That works.


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## ronin5573

Took the day off yesterday. I woke up at 630 am and got showered and dressed. Went upstairs. STBX was there kids watching tv. My ex carried on in front of the kids about all the things she is doing with them. Going here going there etc. It was like I was a ghost. The kids did say goodmorning and nothing else. Ex didnt say a word to me. I think she is doing everything in her power to alienate the kids from me. The kids I feel are afraid to talk with me in her presence. They act different when shes not there. So I had enough and kissed them good by and left. I had some things to do anyway. About 830 ex called me 7 times. I didnt answer it. I think if she had something to say she could have that morning. I wont be there when its convient. Im sticking to my guns with the ex, No contact excpet for maybe a 3 min talk about the kids schedule for the week. Other then that nothing. Friday is my sons 8th birthday. So Tonight i think I will celebrate it with him. We will go out for dinner. Tomorrow morning the ex will be there and I will just leave. I dont want her to have a tyrade on his birthday.


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## turnera

Exactly why you, as the only sane parent, should ALREADY have them in therapy. Are you going to?


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## MarriedWifeInLove

ronin5573 said:


> Its not about nailing her to the wall. Now its about getting myself and the kids through this the best way I can. I just want to put her past me and then never look back....... ever.


I agree, but I personally would like to see you nail her ass to the wall!


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Exactly why you, as the only sane parent, should ALREADY have them in therapy. Are you going to?


Yes Im getting that going.


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## ronin5573

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I agree, but I personally would like to see you nail her ass to the wall!


LMAO . I have to be totally honest here. She on her own will do that all by herself.


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## turnera

Good idea to take your son out tonight. And make sure you are totally honest with him if he asks anything, ok? Shielding doesn't help them.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Good idea to take your son out tonight. And make sure you are totally honest with him if he asks anything, ok? Shielding doesn't help them.


Shielding him no. But I wont ask what happens when Im not there. My wife has them lieing to me anyway. So why would I put them in the position to make them lie. If they wish to have a conversation or questions, then I will answer them honestly. I refuse to put them in the middle. If my daughter calls me to ask questions that my ex wants answers to, I wont reply. Im going no contact with the ex. Maybe 2 mins once a week about the kids, period. Nothing else will be discussed.


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## jh52

Your stbxw sounds like she has gone crazy and needs some psychological help -- but she is no longer your problem -- but it does affect the kids and their relationship with you.

You sound in total control of yourself --- keep up the good work -- and stay strong.


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Your stbxw sounds like she has gone crazy and needs some psychological help -- but she is no longer your problem -- but it does affect the kids and their relationship with you.
> 
> You sound in total control of yourself --- keep up the good work -- and stay strong.


It really is an exercise in self control. I realize what I did wrong while married. I realize what I did wrong when the affair was discovered. Now finally realize what I really need to do. Move the hell on.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> Shielding him no. But I wont ask what happens when Im not there. My wife has them lieing to me anyway. So why would I put them in the position to make them lie. If they wish to have a conversation or questions, then I will answer them honestly. I refuse to put them in the middle. If my daughter calls me to ask questions that my ex wants answers to, I wont reply. Im going no contact with the ex. Maybe 2 mins once a week about the kids, period. Nothing else will be discussed.


 That's not what I meant by shielding. I meant that, if your child asks you what's going on, you tell them *exactly* what's going on. (in an age-appropriate way)


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## A Bit Much

Finally! No contact!!! Nothing to talk about other than the kids... no more than a few minutes, then exit stage left!!!

You're on your way Ronin. Baby steps...


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Finally! No contact!!! Nothing to talk about other than the kids... no more than a few minutes, then exit stage left!!!
> 
> You're on your way Ronin. Baby steps...


It's the best way I know how to distance myself from her, and stop the crap in front of the kids. She will fInd out soon enough that the 
Grass isn't greener.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

Took both kids out last night for my son Birthday which is today. We really had a great time. The were laughing and joking the whole time and seemed normal. Went home and my STBXW came home about 9pm. She went right into her act. So I said goodby to the kids and left. I went to my moms and tried to relax and then went to sleep. She called me at 1030 11 and 1130 pm. I didnt answer. Her BF john called my house phone about 9 times up till about 1am. My wife called early this morning and left a VM message this time. She said that she had to be at work at 730 am, and if i were there then she would leave and the kids would have to get on the bus by themselfs. So I headed home as thats not ever going to happen. Looking back I should have waited for her to leave and then Document her leaving them alone .... but I didnt. I got home and she was there. She started right in about me being a horible person. I just tried to smile at her, and then she left. I then tried to asses the damage. All of the pictures on the wall with me ... wedding, family, were talken down. Also on tuesday she messed with the computer so that I couldnt access it. Last night before I left I fixed the computer and then setup user accounts so she couldnt really access anything. It will work for basic things like web surfing and things like that .. but all the programs and email is gone. I will never give her the passwords for it. My son told me she was up all night messing with the computer. I then tried to calm the kids down and we actually had a nice talk. I think they are starting to understand whats REALLy going on. They know she not acting as a mother and I honesting think they now realize that John is not mommys friend but mommys Boyfriend. They understand that now. I did my best to reassure them and they drove them to school. Hey its my sons birthday why not do something special. Then went to the hospital ....... my sister had a baby boy at 3am this morning so i went to the hospital to see the baby and congradulate them and brings gifts. I think im making some headway with the kids and will spend the whole weekend with them. Sunday we have a big day planned for my sons birthday. Im beat though, this whole thing is wearing me down.


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## ronin5573

Wow I just read this and I think it hit my situation nail right on the head \
***********************************
Most guys have no clue that a woman's needs change after marriage. Want me to say that again? And women think that if they will go domestic and they do lots of sex, he will be happy and satisfy their emotional needs.

Rubbish.

Now I am going to relate what guys who are worth having do and how women who are worth having react, and vice versa. Everyone knows that the newspapers are full of bad news and so it is with men and women; bad news and good riddance. It would be useful if this discovery were made before having kids though.

After marriage.

Guys start focusing on their work and their hobbies. Some of them even think it is cool to do karate four times a week, or spend a lot of time and money on recreation stuff like hunting, bowling, bars and guy stuff.

Pretty soon, wife starts thinking, "This doesn't look like the guy I married."

The exact same things that attracted wife to husband now start to irritate her. His independence and macho get on her nerves; she needs someone to talk to, like they did before marriage (while he was working on getting laid), and someone to help her with raising the kids (he has to work overtime or drives an over the road truck).

But women, lacking the knowledge of how to communicate with men, stuff it, try to do internal changes that don't end up working, and their resentment builds and builds and builds, until, surprise, she walks away.

Oh, there are other reasons as part of the bad news deal, women get bored (Langley), or decide to trade up (Any Russian MOB), or whatever, but mostly, they walk away because of years of feeble attempts to get hubby to realize that things are wrong, and hubby is oblivious. 

Yea, many guys are NOT oblivious. They just don't want to hear it. By listening, they would lose control. And that is a bad thing, right guys?

The marriage slips down the hill into the valley and the wife walks away to keep her sanity. This is not an easy decision for most women to make. After all, there are the kids to think about, right?

Women have all sorts of thoughts as they plan their exit. And it can take them years to finally make the break.

They think about their market value; they aren't getting any younger and they know guys will pick younger women if they can.

They think about their kids and maybe their Church fellowship and what her friends will think and parents, and mostly about how much longer they can live in their stuffed misery.

And she will find every reason in the world to blame the guy and not herself. 

Human nature.

*******************************************
man ... that really hits home


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## ronin5573

I got home last night at 10:30. Ex was there and I could tell she was upset as she wanted to go see lover boy. Truth is I was at work. I didnt get there late to piss her off, thats just the time I got off work. So I said hello and then she said that she would be home for me to goto work on monday morning. Then I went upstairs to make sure the kids were tucked in and they were ok. My ex called me from downstairs to come down because she wanted to talk, but I was in the middle on talking with the kids and I ignored her. So she just left for the whole weekend. We got up this morning and I had to take the kids to my parents house as today I work. My mom called me about to blow a gasket. Kids were very standoffish to her and after an hour they opened up to mom. She basically told me that my nutjob ex is telling the kids that when the divorce is final that I and my whole side of the family will abondon them completely. My mom who was a teacher for 33 years and minored in child physiology knew how to convey to the kids that isnt true now nor will it ever be. She was pretty upset about it though. She just couldnt belive that my ex would subjet the kids to that kind of mental crulity. I told her thats the horror I have lived with for 3 months. I will pick them up later and we will have a nice night. Tommorow we will get up and goto the fun zone for my sons birthday and then all the family will meet up at my mothers to celebrate his 8th birthday. just keep swimming .... just keep swimmig


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> I got home last night at 10:30. Ex was there and I could tell she was upset as she wanted to go see lover boy. Truth is I was at work. I didnt get there late to piss her off, thats just the time I got off work. So I said hello and then she said that she would be home for me to goto work on monday morning. Then I went upstairs to make sure the kids were tucked in and they were ok. My ex called me from downstairs to come down because she wanted to talk, but I was in the middle on talking with the kids and I ignored her. So she just left for the whole weekend. We got up this morning and I had to take the kids to my parents house as today I work. My mom called me about to blow a gasket. Kids were very standoffish to her and after an hour they opened up to mom. She basically told me that my nutjob ex is telling the kids that when the divorce is final that I and my whole side of the family will abondon them completely. My mom who was a teacher for 33 years and minored in child physiology knew how to convey to the kids that isnt true now nor will it ever be. She was pretty upset about it though. She just couldnt belive that my ex would subjet the kids to that kind of mental crulity. I told her thats the horror I have lived with for 3 months. I will pick them up later and we will have a nice night. Tommorow we will get up and goto the fun zone for my sons birthday and then all the family will meet up at my mothers to celebrate his 8th birthday. just keep swimming .... just keep swimmig


You should convey this message to your whole family tomorrow (away from the kids) about your stbxw so they can show extra support/love to your kids while this whole scenario plays out. 

Your stbxw is just conveying her own feelings as I am sure she feels abandoned -- but what she hasn't done is looked at herself in the mirror and realize she is the reason/cause with her actions against you and your family. 

She will continue to bad mouth you and your family -- I think you should mention this to your lawyer to make him aware of this as well as the kids counselor (I think you said they are in counciling)

Have fun with you kids tomorrow at your sons BD party !!


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## the guy

At least you got your sons age right. LOL 
or is he turning 7? LOL

On a serious note, I have heard that even though your juornal would have no bearing in the divorce, that you can ask for it to be entered in the divorce papers. 

You never know but if the right judge does open the fill and clances at your journal, and sees that your sons own mother wasn't at his birthday, or the fact that she leaves all week end, it might give you an more favorable out come in the divorce. 

Not say it would make a big difference with custody but if the right judge does happen to look at it, some of the little things might go your way...thats all.


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## ronin5573

We really had a great weekend. The kids were great and they had a terrific time at my sons birthday. I think they are now realizing that what my wife is telling them is BS. They know that Im always going to be there. They open up a little about things but never in front of each other. I know that what I tell my daughter will be repeated back to my stbxw so Im selective about the things that I share with her. But I feel pretty good that they are comming around. She was gone at Johns this weekend and only called the kids once. She came home this morning at 7am and I was all ready to go and already said my goodbys to the kids. When she walked in I walked right out. I never said a single word to her. The NC thing is hard but I think its the best for my own wellbeing. I realize now that we dont have anything left to talk about.


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> We really had a great weekend. The kids were great and they had a terrific time at my sons birthday. I think they are now realizing that what my wife is telling them is BS. They know that Im always going to be there. They open up a little about things but never in front of each other. I know that what I tell my daughter will be repeated back to my stbxw so Im selective about the things that I share with her. But I feel pretty good that they are comming around. She was gone at Johns this weekend and only called the kids once. She came home this morning at 7am and I was all ready to go and already said my goodbys to the kids. When she walked in I walked right out. I never said a single word to her. The NC thing is hard but I think its the best for my own wellbeing. I realize now that we dont have anything left to talk about.


Sounds like you and the kids had a great weekend. Good job in just walking passed her without saying anything. Prepare for the rath from hell tonight as she will bump your daughter when she gets home from school for information about their weekend -- and takes it all out on you.

Stay strong and in control.


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## A Bit Much

> When she walked in I walked right out. I never said a single word to her. The NC thing is hard but I think its the best for my own wellbeing. I realize now that we dont have anything left to talk about.


The NC is very much about you keeping peace and serenity in this situation. You need it and your kids need it. At this point you DON'T have anything to say to your STBX. She's already gone. Just physically coming in and out.


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Sounds like you and the kids had a great weekend. Good job in just walking passed her without saying anything. Prepare for the rath from hell tonight as she will bump your daughter when she gets home from school for information about their weekend -- and takes it all out on you.
> 
> Stay strong and in control.


Rath.... Im sure. I might just spend the night at my parents tonight and avoid her all together. She called my cell about 20 mins ago, nope I sure didnt pick it up. She wanted something Im sure. She still thinks that if she snaped her fingers that I would come crawling back. Slowly after a period of time she will have to realize what she has done to me and the kids. Im truly never beyond forgiveness but that isnt a posiblilty after all of the events have taken place.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> The NC is very much about you keeping peace and serenity in this situation. You need it and your kids need it. At this point you DON'T have anything to say to your STBX. She's already gone. Just physically coming in and out.


I agree with you about NC. Im not sure if its harder on me or harder on her but I does eliminate problems. It allows the kids to be in much more peaceful enviroment. It is also good for me to allow my self to detach from her. Detaching is much harder then I would have ever imagined. I still have moments of weakness about all the plans that we had for the future. I know the plans are gone now but I do feel a lot of remorse. Working through this has been a daily struggle and I think that will contune for some time. Like Ive said in the past, she has checked out long ago, Im left trying to catch up. I run pretty fast and after a while I will get there emotionally.


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## warlock07

did you not tell her to email or text if she needs something ? She is losing control.


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> did you not tell her to email or text if she needs something ? She is losing control.


What are you talking about. When the Nutjob says jump im expected to ask politely how high. LOL. Yep Im beyond words. I never really understood what that ment untill now. I dont even know what to say anymore. We need to get schedules together as far as the kids. But I cant think of anything else to talk about. She feels that shes loosing control but she isnt loosing it ... its gone


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## xirokx

RONIN - I salute you....After reading through the first 13 pages I had to skip forward and write this.

You are a true inspiration.....THANK YOU

I would keep all this data , so one day if needed you can show your kids exactly what you endured in the past...

The change in behaviour your STBXW displayed at the beginning was the same as my fiancee's....I sussed it after a day and found out she was speaking to someone else..

We didnt have kids, just a rented apartment, when I moved out after I learned she was being consoled by another man, I took everything I paid for....When I had to leave her a dining plate and cup it dawned on me how crazily in love I was, but that it was a one way street.

I since then learnt she got with this other guy and they split very quickly and now she has moved onto another...Do these people even have feelings? I think YES, they are running from them and one day they have to wake up and smell the coffee....

All I say is GOODLUCK...

I acted on instinct, I was totally broken, had no moral or emotional support, I just packed my stuff when I discovered she had made a "male friend" I guessed who this guy was by pure chance after hearing about him only once in our last 6 months. For me that was enough...

Like you I worked so hard, I put myself through education as a mature student after working some long hours and didnt want to get married until I was somewhat stable because I wanted to be around my kids as and when they came on the scene.

I see that period in my life now as a blessing in disguise. I never considered returning back to complete my education until I met an old wise guy. He doesnt know how much he saved me. I don't think I would have the mental strength to go through what you are doing, you cannot begin to imagine how much you are teaching me.

You have and are teaching me so much, I am 32 and in the process of rebuilding me....

Your story albeit is a sad one, I find great strength, courage, inspiration, determination and peace from the way you continue fighting through this....You are in my thoughts and prayers...

When this is all over, you will one day be proud of how you handled this...

Thank you for teaching me so much and I pray from the bottom of my heart you will one day find someone who will spoil you rotten and appreciate your hardwork and morals.

Thank you for sharing your realizations and your story

Thank you


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## ronin5573

xirokx said:


> RONIN - I salute you....After reading through the first 13 pages I had to skip forward and write this.
> 
> You are a true inspiration.....THANK YOU
> 
> I would keep all this data , so one day if needed you can show your kids exactly what you endured in the past...
> 
> The change in behaviour your STBXW displayed at the beginning was the same as my fiancee's....I sussed it after a day and found out she was speaking to someone else..
> 
> We didnt have kids, just a rented apartment, when I moved out after I learned she was being consoled by another man, I took everything I paid for....When I had to leave her a dining plate and cup it dawned on me how crazily in love I was, but that it was a one way street.
> 
> I since then learnt she got with this other guy and they split very quickly and now she has moved onto another...Do these people even have feelings? I think YES, they are running from them and one day they have to wake up and smell the coffee....
> 
> All I say is GOODLUCK...
> 
> I acted on instinct, I was totally broken, had no moral or emotional support, I just packed my stuff when I discovered she had made a "male friend" I guessed who this guy was by pure chance after hearing about him only once in our last 6 months. For me that was enough...
> 
> Like you I worked so hard, I put myself through education as a mature student after working some long hours and didnt want to get married until I was somewhat stable because I wanted to be around my kids as and when they came on the scene.
> 
> I see that period in my life now as a blessing in disguise. I never considered returning back to complete my education until I met an old wise guy. He doesnt know how much he saved me. I don't think I would have the mental strength to go through what you are doing, you cannot begin to imagine how much you are teaching me.
> 
> You have and are teaching me so much, I am 32 and in the process of rebuilding me....
> 
> Your story albeit is a sad one, I find great strength, courage, inspiration, determination and peace from the way you continue fighting through this....You are in my thoughts and prayers...
> 
> When this is all over, you will one day be proud of how you handled this...
> 
> Thank you for teaching me so much and I pray from the bottom of my heart you will one day find someone who will spoil you rotten and appreciate your hardwork and morals.
> 
> Thank you for sharing your realizations and your story
> 
> Thank you


Thanks for the kind words. Throughout this whole process ive made a bunch of mistakes. Some of them I corrected on advise from this board. I do appreciate your comments as I question what the hell im doing every single day. I think Im at about 50% of the way done to the divorce. But anything can happen to make it go much further. Im sorry to hear about your loss. I do now understand that people that havnet gone through this really dont know what to say or do. A very close friend of mine went through a divorce about 4 years ago and I did the same to him as most say to me. More fish in the sea and yada yada. That isnt really what I want to hear and Im sure he didnt either at the time. As a matter of fact I called him and told him that I wish I could have been there more then. But now I think I would be a pretty good resource to anyone going through this as I undersand now.


----------



## xirokx

Ronin - I just read about your mothers stroke also, words cannot describe how I feel right now, I just wish I could help you in some shape or form....Not that you need it, you are doing so f*****g well and good on you....

You made a few mistakes, so what......you didnt give up though did you...and you will not...

Look at the positives:-

- you are holding job a well paid, highly stressful job
- constantly there for your kids
- supporting your immediate family also 
- are making some time for yourself
- on top of all the above are doing a crash course in divorce
- Despite the pain you are in, you are being totally selfless for your kids
- You continue to keep it together despite your hurt
- Despite the madness, you are thinking logically and rationally
- you have not for one second compromised your self worth, dignity and self respect
- you are going through life at lightining speed and picking up so many lessons along the way....so many would not have come this far...dont ever overlook this

You are an explemary individual and again I SALUTE you for your resilence...I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers...

You cannot begin to imagine just how much you are teaching me, I cannot thank you enough...

If I had even 5% of your resilence I would still not be all over the place after many months.....The best thing to come from my split is how much I realised I need to fill some holes in myself so I dont carry this energy around too much longer..That has to be realised not told...

Your fighting spirit is breathtaking and I beg you not to fold, keep it up, keep fighting, you can and WILL do this...

You teach me no matter how much life throws at you, you can whilst feeling all the emotions stand up and fight each day. It helps your self confidence, self esteem and helps with all the crap the mind conjures up.

Everyday you are fighting for your kids, for your own sanity, for your own inner self.....What you have / possess and made of is truly unique and inspiring. You have a real gift and more importantly you dont know any other way....THIS IS YOUR GOLD....THIS IS YOUR GOD GIVEN GIFT.....SO CONTINUE AHEAD...

I too have heard all that "plenty more fish and 1 goes and another comes" they just dont get it, not their fault its just where they at....you my friend are cut from a different crop altogether, you are a LEADER not a follower and no you just wont be a good "resource" you my friend will be a GURU....

The next person you fall for, all I can say being male (and a romantic), is that I will envy your love story.....

Thank you, thank you, thank you...Just wish I could do sit down with you and have a beer and just glorify you in so many ways because I cannot again express just how much hope, dignity and courage you instill within me...

Your entire post is selfless, have you noticed not once have you had a pity party or questioned "oh god why me" you may internally but your entire post is so objective and to the point I am truly amazed at your resilence...

Big man hugs for you....and once again thank you for being such a truly great soul and spirit and teaching me so much.....I will keep up with your story but even more I pray it will be embeded in my head somewhere so in the event I ever come againt this I know where to gain inspiration, strength and self belief from.....that person my friend is you RONIN...thank you for showing me a way and proving just by fighting the path opens up, even if you dont know where you are heading, keep fighting because there is a light there at the end of every tunnel...


----------



## Michie

Ronin, dude, after reading pages and pages, and skipping forward to write you first let me say, totally ashamed of your wife right now, she makes women look like monsters. Secondly you are awesome!

Also it has occured to me, how difficult maybe even now, how you can reconcile that this is technically the woman you dated, courted, married and gave you children, with the complete ******** ***** she is today.....That must be or was mind blowing


----------



## warlock07

ronin5573 said:


> What are you talking about. When the Nutjob says jump im expected to ask politely how high. LOL. Yep Im beyond words. I never really understood what that ment untill now. I dont even know what to say anymore. We need to get schedules together as far as the kids. But I cant think of anything else to talk about. She feels that shes loosing control but she isnt loosing it ... its gone


I meant any necessary communication about the kids


----------



## ronin5573

Well she called on my way to work. I didnt pick up. So she called like 5 times in a row and I finally picked it up. She started right in on she wants her stuff on the computer, yep the same computer that she screwed up. I didnt like her tone or volume with me so I hung up. She then called back another 9 times and I picked it up once again. I started this time and explained that we need to talk once a week about the kids schedules. PERIOD. I told her that the sec she gets out of line or is disrespectful in anyway im going to hang up. I also told her that will be the only topic of conversation. So I then asked would she like to discuss the kids schedules right now and we did for the comming week. Then she raised her voice and started again about the computer... hung up. I guess the ground rules wont be followed by her but that doesnt matter. She will learn to be civil or get hung up on. She called a few more times and left a few voice mail messages on the phone. The messages werent very nice. I wont pick it up or respond. She thinks Im acting like a child. I dont feel that way. I really need to distance myself from her. Im not her punching bag. Kids are the topic, everything else she can discuss with her lawyer. kids and me going forward. She isnt my concern any longer.


----------



## ronin5573

Michie said:


> Ronin, dude, after reading pages and pages, and skipping forward to write you first let me say, totally ashamed of your wife right now, she makes women look like monsters. Secondly you are awesome!
> 
> Also it has occured to me, how difficult maybe even now, how you can reconcile that this is technically the woman you dated, courted, married and gave you children, with the complete ******** ***** she is today.....That must be or was mind blowing


We have been together for a long time, married for 13 years. Making the jump from love of my life,wife,mother of my kids, growing old and retireing together, to bitter arch ememy is the most difficult transition ive ever had to do. I realize that she came to grips with her decision long before I even knew we were in trouble. maybe even 2 years ago. However understand this, and this goes for anyone in my position. She isnt you wife anymore. She isnt even a friend. She wants to hurt you in anyway she can to get the best possible outcome in the divorce. She will lie cheat steal and stop at nothing to make that happen. There is no piece of information that she gets that wont be used against me, this includes the children.


----------



## A Bit Much

She thinks you're acting like a child? Says the woman who squirted maple syrup on you like two weeks ago...

She's nuts. You have to continue to treat her as if she's a mental patient who escaped the hospital. You can't argue with a sick mind.


----------



## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> She thinks you're acting like a child? Says the woman who squirted maple syrup on you like two weeks ago...
> 
> She's nuts. You have to continue to treat her as if she's a mental patient who escaped the hospital. You can't argue with a sick mind.


Im going to do this very thing. She has an uncanny knack of starting problems and then turning it around that the other person started it all. She has done this her whole life. honestly I used to believe her as a husband should always back his wife. But I realize that she is a lier. She was turn anyone she can against me. I wont stop that except with the kids. Anyone else that backs her ... including my 2 cousins I will write off for good. When the poop hits the fan you learn really fast who your true friends are. I will remember who was there for me and who wasnt. That includes you abitmuch... your comments and help have been a blessing.


----------



## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Im going to do this very thing. She has an uncanny knack of starting problems and then turning it around that the other person started it all. She has done this her whole life. honestly I used to believe her as a husband should always back his wife. But I realize that she is a lier. She was turn anyone she can against me. I wont stop that except with the kids. Anyone else that backs her ... including my 2 cousins I will write off for good. When the poop hits the fan you learn really fast who your true friends are. I will remember who was there for me and who wasnt. That includes you abitmuch... your comments and help have been a blessing.


Aw you're welcome Ronin. I'm glad I've been helpful to you... this is probably one of the worst things you'll ever go through. But you will get through it and come out smelling like a rose on the other side.


----------



## Sbrown

ronin5573 said:


> Well she called on my way to work. I didnt pick up. So she called like 5 times in a row and I finally picked it up. She started right in on she wants her stuff on the computer, yep the same computer that she screwed up. I didnt like her tone or volume with me so I hung up. She then called back another 9 times and I picked it up once again. I started this time and explained that we need to talk once a week about the kids schedules. PERIOD. I told her that the sec she gets out of line or is disrespectful in anyway im going to hang up. I also told her that will be the only topic of conversation. So I then asked would she like to discuss the kids schedules right now and we did for the comming week. Then she raised her voice and started again about the computer... hung up. I guess the ground rules wont be followed by her but that doesnt matter. She will learn to be civil or get hung up on. She called a few more times and left a few voice mail messages on the phone. The messages werent very nice. I wont pick it up or respond. She thinks Im acting like a child. I dont feel that way. I really need to distance myself from her. Im not her punching bag. Kids are the topic, everything else she can discuss with her lawyer. kids and me going forward. She isnt my concern any longer.


Did you get a little smirk on your face at the thought of her exploding when she realized you had hung on her? I used to love that.


----------



## jh52

If she brings up her PC again -- tell her not your problem -- find someone else to fix it. End of PC discussion.

Just a thought !!


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## ronin5573

Sbrown said:


> Did you get a little smirk on your face at the thought of her exploding when she realized you had hung on her? I used to love that.


Heres a great one. A few weeks ago I changed her picture on my cell. Everytime she calles I see a picture of the wicked witch of the east from the wizzard of oz. She probibly wonders why im always smiling when she calls. Im makes me LMAO everytime I see it


----------



## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> If she brings up her PC again -- tell her not your problem -- find someone else to fix it. End of PC discussion.
> 
> Just a thought !!


Im done with doing anything for her.


----------



## cmf

Ronin- I have just finished reading this thread. I too have been married 13 years, 2 kids. Going through a very similar situation with my husband. This rang very true to me:

"Making the jump from love of my life,wife,mother of my kids, growing old and retireing together, to bitter arch ememy is the most difficult transition ive ever had to do".


I am done at this point. You give me hope that there are men out there that actually learn from their mistakes and take their marriage vows seriously. I've been afraid of starting over, scared I would only find men out there like my husband.

You are doing the right thing, your children will remember who was there for them and putting their needs first. You are the stable parent for them in all this chaos.


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## ronin5573

cmf said:


> Ronin- I have just finished reading this thread. I too have been married 13 years, 2 kids. Going through a very similar situation with my husband. This rang very true to me:
> 
> "Making the jump from love of my life,wife,mother of my kids, growing old and retireing together, to bitter arch ememy is the most difficult transition ive ever had to do".
> 
> 
> I am done at this point. You give me hope that there are men out there that actually learn from their mistakes and take their marriage vows seriously. I've been afraid of starting over, scared I would only find men out there like my husband.
> 
> You are doing the right thing, your children will remember who was there for them and putting their needs first. You are the stable parent for them in all this chaos.


Nice guys usually finish last. Guess im in last place. Naaa I dont think so. There are great people out there in many forms. Im almost getting to the point were I want to go out and meet some of them. Not ready to jump into a long thing but to just go out and have fun with someone whould be great. cmf you up for a drink? im buying !!


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## cmf

That made me smile I most certainly could use a drink! If you're ever in NC let me know!

I hear you about moving on. I have no idea how to date again . My divorced friends have scared me about what is out there.


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## ronin5573

cmf said:


> That made me smile I most certainly could use a drink! If you're ever in NC let me know!
> 
> I hear you about moving on. I have no idea how to date again . My divorced friends have scared me about what is out there.


Most of my friends are married. But I think finding someone else comes with time. People have a sence that you might not be ready. 
I goto Ashville NC from time to time. Where you live?


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## cmf

I'll message you.


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## xirokx

> I realize that she came to grips with her decision long before I even knew we were in trouble. maybe even 2 years ago. However understand this, and this goes for anyone in my position. She isnt you wife anymore. She isnt even a friend.


so true....

when i found out my ex's male friend, i honestly dont know where I got the energy and mental frame of mind to cut all ties immediately.

After hearing her initial lies about the split having a chat with her openly and honestly and seeing something had changed I knew (dont ask how) there was no going back..

I didnt even know back then if she was seeing him 100% until I found concrete proof she was...

I don't live too far from my old place and am always passing through the area and if I ever saw her I would just say Hi and Bye....She does not know that I know, I don't think she even cares, hurts at times but I know I am lucky it could have been alot worse.

Like you when I look back I feel she also came to her decision ages ago but was too cowardly and weak to bring it to the table as even then she was constantly thinking about herself, not reconciling but all about how she would cope, so found another bloke to help her...cheap and nasty come to mind


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## ronin5573

xirokx said:


> so true....
> 
> when i found out my ex's male friend, i honestly dont know where I got the energy and mental frame of mind to cut all ties immediately.
> 
> After hearing her initial lies about the split having a chat with her openly and honestly and seeing something had changed I knew (dont ask how) there was no going back..
> 
> I didnt even know back then if she was seeing him 100% until I found concrete proof she was...
> 
> I don't live too far from my old place and am always passing through the area and if I ever saw her I would just say Hi and Bye....She does not know that I know, I don't think she even cares, hurts at times but I know I am lucky it could have been alot worse.
> 
> Like you when I look back I feel she also came to her decision ages ago but was too cowardly and weak to bring it to the table as even then she was constantly thinking about herself, not reconciling but all about how she would cope, so found another bloke to help her...cheap and nasty come to mind


You sound way ahead of me brother. I salute you for you courage.


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## life.is.pain

Im in same situation as you RONIN, she said she's done so i just said fine and im letting her go. Im not gonna be her puppet or live my life in limbo. We only live once so we have a right to live our live's just like our wife's believe they can live their life's. So just live your life to the fullest without her my friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

Last night was another humm dinger. Kids came home at 4pm. We went to the store, then I took them out to dinner. Then we went food shopping as my stbx has stopped buying food. So after all that we came home put things away and started on homework. Ex walked in at 6:45 and ignored me. She spoke with the kids for a few minuites then locked herself in the bedroom. The kids and I had a great evening. We played a few games and read some books together. I got them both to take baths while I made lunches for school together and tucked them in a 9pm. Then I retired to the basement. Then she came down and demanded the computer files. No wanting to talk to a wall anymore I just ignored her. I called a friend for a few minuties and then she came down again while I was on the phone. She just would leave me be and sat there. So I hung up and then told her to just leave me alone or I will sleep in the bed. I stood up like I was just upstairs then she ran upstairs. LOL so I sat back down and then realized she is looking for a fight, a fight that Im not giving her. She came back down in about 5 minuites. She then went into my bag and grabbed my ipad and ran .... I mean ran upstairs. UMM ok Im going to squash this situation now. So I went upstairs and took the ipad back then went into the kids room and told them both that she wants to fight and I would be sleeping at my dads tonight. They understood and then went back to the basement to gather my things. She followed me wanted to engage me into a fight but I just ignored her and then went to my car. She followed me the whole way and then I just left. I called there this morning and spoke with the kids and they were fine. My son made a great joke that reallly made me laugh. He told me thats its a good thing that I wasnt there because they were eating pancakes and the syrup was on the table. I really laughed pretty hard. Today is another day.


----------



## ronin5573

life.is.pain said:


> Im in same situation as you RONIN, she said she's done so i just said fine and im letting her go. Im not gonna be her puppet or live my life in limbo. We only live once so we have a right to live our live's just like our wife's believe they can live their life's. So just live your life to the fullest without her my friend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its the only outlook that you can have thats healty. No dwelling on the past just onward and upward.


----------



## WhereAmI

Ha! It's awesome that your son can find humor in this! You handled the situation wonderfully.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> Last night was another humm dinger. Kids came home at 4pm. We went to the store, then I took them out to dinner. Then we went food shopping as my stbx has stopped buying food. So after all that we came home put things away and started on homework. Ex walked in at 6:45 and ignored me. She spoke with the kids for a few minuites then locked herself in the bedroom. The kids and I had a great evening. We played a few games and read some books together. I got them both to take baths while I made lunches for school together and tucked them in a 9pm. Then I retired to the basement. Then she came down and demanded the computer files. No wanting to talk to a wall anymore I just ignored her. I called a friend for a few minuties and then she came down again while I was on the phone. She just would leave me be and sat there. So I hung up and then told her to just leave me alone or I will sleep in the bed. I stood up like I was just upstairs then she ran upstairs. LOL so I sat back down and then realized she is looking for a fight, a fight that Im not giving her. She came back down in about 5 minuites. She then went into my bag and grabbed my ipad and ran .... I mean ran upstairs. UMM ok Im going to squash this situation now. So I went upstairs and took the ipad back then went into the kids room and told them both that she wants to fight and I would be sleeping at my dads tonight. They understood and then went back to the basement to gather my things. She followed me wanted to engage me into a fight but I just ignored her and then went to my car. She followed me the whole way and then I just left. I called there this morning and spoke with the kids and they were fine. My son made a great joke that reallly made me laugh. He told me thats its a good thing that I wasnt there because they were eating pancakes and the syrup was on the table. I really laughed pretty hard. Today is another day.


Your stbxw is a nut case !!


----------



## A Bit Much

What flipping files is she looking for? I mean she's like a dog on a bone with that.


----------



## southern wife

I didn't get through all of the pages here, but your latest responses indicate that she is still living in the house.......is that true?


----------



## ronin5573

southern wife said:


> I didn't get through all of the pages here, but your latest responses indicate that she is still living in the house.......is that true?


Yes she is still there.


----------



## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> What flipping files is she looking for? I mean she's like a dog on a bone with that.


I know what she wants. Its no big deal really. She is using this as a reason to start conflict. Im not biteing anymore.


----------



## southern wife

Why hasn't she moved out? All of this cannot be good for your children.


----------



## ronin5573

southern wife said:


> Why hasn't she moved out? All of this cannot be good for your children.


She doesnt have anywhere to go. She has pretty much pushed everyone away, including her own family. She talks with her BF and my 2 cousins. Thats really all she has left.


----------



## southern wife

ronin5573 said:


> She doesnt have anywhere to go. She has pretty much pushed everyone away, including her own family. She talks with her BF and my 2 cousins. Thats really all she has left.


Why can't she go live with BF?


----------



## ronin5573

southern wife said:


> Why can't she go live with BF?


I dont know what their status is to be honest.


----------



## southern wife

ronin5573 said:


> I dont know what their status is to be honest.


I don't see how you and the kids live and cope with this situation.


----------



## ronin5573

southern wife said:


> I don't see how you and the kids live and cope with this situation.


The simple and natural solution would be for me to leave and just not come back. Believe me Ive thought about is many times after the last few months. Howeven as much as I want my stbx to be out of my life, I cherish the time I have there with my kids. Leaving her would mean leaving the kids and that isnt an option. They need me to be there to guide them through this. She isnt in my opinion emotionally there for them. They are kids who were thrown into this mess and they need someone stable to be there.


----------



## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> The simple and natural solution would be for me to leave and just not come back. Believe me Ive thought about is many times after the last few months. Howeven as much as I want my stbx to be out of my life, I cherish the time I have there with my kids. Leaving her would mean leaving the kids and that isnt an option. They need me to be there to guide them through this. She isnt in my opinion emotionally there for them. They are kids who were thrown into this mess and they need someone stable to be there.


She's too crazed to leave them there with her. In any other circumstance I would say go and get the hell away from her. This one is unique. SHE needs to leave. She's too unstable for the kids right now.


----------



## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I know what she wants. Its no big deal really. She is using this as a reason to start conflict. Im not biteing anymore.


I'm thinking you could give it to her on a flash drive and tell her to F off.


----------



## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> She's too crazed to leave them there with her. In any other circumstance I would say go and get the hell away from her. This one is unique. SHE needs to leave. She's too unstable for the kids right now.


I can promise you that if we didnt have kids, I would have been long gone. But the kids come first in my mind. Its going to continue to be the Bad living there, horrible even. She is going to make it hell but I dont care. I do get my joy being with the kids and it makes it all worth it to me.


----------



## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> I'm thinking you could give it to her on a flash drive and tell her to F off.


The days of me giving her anything are gone.


----------



## ronin5573

southern wife said:


> I don't see how you and the kids live and cope with this situation.


Honestly I almost cant, and neither can the kids. She going to make it brutal. That will most likely continue long after the divorce. Its bad and its going to continue to be bad but I have to just keep going. She isnt going to get help.


----------



## A Bit Much

It's her trying to pick fights all the time. If she was just not speaking to you, I'm sure you would handle this just fine. Be sure she knows how to push your buttons, because in the past, her coming at you was a way to get things done. If she b!tches enough, you would give in. Well the table has turned, and you need to show her that prior tactics don't work on you anymore. You are not moved by her outbursts and/or anger. If you DO feel that she is not in control of herself at any time, call the cops on her and have her removed from the house. You have to up your game on her.


----------



## southern wife

ronin5573 said:


> The days of me giving her anything are gone.


You're giving her a house to live in.....a roof over her head.

2 options.........and the sooner the better:

1. Kick her out of the house..............*just her* She is old enough to fend for herself and figure where to go. It will be easier for her w/o the kids in tow. They will be safe with you.

2. Leave and *take the kids with you*. Put the house for sale. She'll be forced to move out. The kids will be safe with you.

Either way the kids will be with you, and away from her. She sounds very toxic for them....and you.


----------



## ronin5573

southern wife said:


> You're giving her a house to live in.....a roof over her head.
> 
> 2 options.........and the sooner the better:
> 
> 1. Kick her out of the house..............*just her* She is old enough to fend for herself and figure where to go. It will be easier for her w/o the kids in tow. They will be safe with you.
> 
> 2. Leave and *take the kids with you*. Put the house for sale. She'll be forced to move out. The kids will be safe with you.
> 
> Either way the kids will be with you, and away from her. She sounds very toxic for them....and you.


I cant kick her out unless I do that dirty underhanded things like get a RO. Same goes for her getting me thrown out.


----------



## southern wife

Then there's option 2. You need to stop worrying about her so much, and focus on your children. Whether they show signs or not, they desperately need OUT of this situation.


----------



## ronin5573

southern wife said:


> Then there's option 2. You need to stop worrying about her so much, and focus on your children. Whether they show signs or not, they desperately need OUT of this situation.


Acutally I have implemented option 2 about 2 1/2 weeks ago. The NC thing works very well for me. She going to fight that but Its my choice if I choose to engage her. I choose not to.


----------



## southern wife

ronin5573 said:


> Acutally I have implemented option 2 about 2 1/2 weeks ago. The NC thing works very well for me. She going to fight that but Its my choice if I choose to engage her. I choose not to.


I understand that, but living in the same house you have to engage her at some point..........and it's not pretty when you do. And the kids need NONE of it.

Please consider, if you can afford to, getting a small short-term lease on a place to stay WITH the kids.


----------



## tryingtobebetter

I agree with other commenters who say they think your wife might be mentally deranged. Any chance of her being dealt with on that basis?


----------



## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> She called a few more times and left a few voice mail messages on the phone. The messages werent very nice.


Forward the messages to your lawyer's secretary for downloading. And her parents. And the bf. And your 2 cousins.


----------



## turnera

Oh, and PLEASE stop picking up the phone after the 5th or 10th call. You are teaching her how to get you to jump.

She knows how to text. Let her.


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## Sbrown

I'd block all calls from her cell.


----------



## ronin5573

Sbrown said:


> I'd block all calls from her cell.


I thought about it, but what if something is up with the kids. I dont want to totally close the line of communication for that sake. no contact is pretty hard when there are kids involved.


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## A Bit Much

The call after call thing is exactly what voicemail is for. Screen that chicks calls. ALL OF THEM.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> The call after call thing is exactly what voicemail is for. Screen that chicks calls. ALL OF THEM.


I think she just calls to talk. I dont know why really bacause usually the reason she calles is pretty much BS. I still think shes cakeeating but who knows. I dont think she really knows where I'm at about it all.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I think she just calls to talk. I dont know why really bacause usually the reason she calles is pretty much BS. I still think shes cakeeating but who knows. I dont think she really knows where I'm at about it all.


Doesn't even matter... the WHY she does what she does. Remember... lunatic. There's nothing to rationalize. 

And calling to talk went out the window when she decided to recruit JOHN and squirt maple syrup on you in front of the kids. You two aren't friends. You don't do idle chit chat. If you keep responding to her, she's going to play these games with your head. She wants you to bend to her will and will use everything in her arsenal to do it. DON'T LET HER.


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## turnera

She calls because you are distancing yourself and that means she's losing the control she's used to having on you. Calling you comforts her when you pick up.


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## Sbrown

ronin5573 said:


> I thought about it, but what if something is up with the kids. I dont want to totally close the line of communication for that sake. no contact is pretty hard when there are kids involved.


Are you old enough to remember a time without cell phones on every hip? If you are then you know what happens if something is up with the kids, someone contacts you somehow.


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## turnera

Reminds me of DD21's freshman orientation, with her psych teacher, who told us, 'you WILL turn your phones off and you WILL go 45 minutes a day without being able to contact the outside world or vice versa. And you won't die.'


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## A Bit Much

Another thing...

Do you have any female friends? Some of her feeling you out is to see if you're doing what she's doing. 

When I went through something similar with my ex, I had one particular male friend that I had limited contact with because my ex HATED him with a passion. Well when we got to the War of the Roses stage, my friend was an invaluable ally to me and a fiercely loyal supportive friend. PURELY platonic... brother sister type relationship and always had been but it gave my ex a strong bitter taste of his own medicine to a certain extent. He didn't like it much. lol


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> She calls because you are distancing yourself and that means she's losing the control she's used to having on you. Calling you comforts her when you pick up.


Listen Im trying to keep my outlook simple. She told me months ago ILUBINILWU. She said that doesnt feel that "way" anymore about me. What else is there. She came clean to her feelings tward me months ago. Only thing left now is the clean up the mess and get going on with my life. Im not going to play the pitty party nonsence anymore. Shes done so there is nothing left. Everything that she has done in the last few months has proved to me how she feels. Hostility, boyfriends etc. I honestly hope she finds what it is that she wants. I know she has no clue what that is. But it really is time for me to come to grips with it, understand it and let her go. There is nothing left, and nothing left to fix. Im trying to forgive her and come to peace with it. It will take some time but I will come to a good understanding and will make peace. Life is good and I think in a few months time it will even get better for me personally.


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## turnera

ronin, it doesn't matter if she no longer WANTS you. She just wants to CONTROL you because you being wrapped around her finger feeds her dysfunctional ego.

Just ignore her. Accept only texts. She'll figure it out.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Another thing...
> 
> Do you have any female friends? Some of her feeling you out is to see if you're doing what she's doing.
> 
> When I went through something similar with my ex, I had one particular male friend that I had limited contact with because my ex HATED him with a passion. Well when we got to the War of the Roses stage, my friend was an invaluable ally to me and a fiercely loyal supportive friend. PURELY platonic... brother sister type relationship and always had been but it gave my ex a strong bitter taste of his own medicine to a certain extent. He didn't like it much. lol


She has herself convinced that I do have a GF. I have planted that seed a month ago to the kids to that effect. I knew it would get back to my ex. I wanted to see her reaction. Truth of it all is there in no one. She did react but not like I thought she would. I do miss the company of a woman. Im not even talking about sex to be honest. Just to go an hangout, have a drink etc. But some alone time right now might just be what I need.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> ronin, it doesn't matter if she no longer WANTS you. She just wants to CONTROL you because you being wrapped around her finger feeds her dysfunctional ego.
> 
> Just ignore her. Accept only texts. She'll figure it out.


Thats been my plan for the last 3 weeks. Its a power game to her that Im not going to play. Why play a game with out a winner or looser? She is starting to realize that her control is gone. She will do what she can to hold on to that control. Its not about that for me. Its about getting myself in the correct frame of mind and to move on. Im trying to get through this the most healty way I can.


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## anchorwatch

Ron, I think you've got it right. You're not playing into it. That's the only way to go. 

I know you may be tired of hearing it while your being tested, but I've got to say it. You're going to come out on the other end, it will be better. Wish you the strength.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Ron, I think you've got it right. You're not playing into it. That's the only way to go.
> 
> I know you may be tired of hearing it while your being tested, but I've got to say it. You going to come out on the other end, it will be better. Wish you the strength.


I wont tell you that its easy. Matter of fact is real hard. But I think the best step is to really understand my position in this marriage. Now that I really understand it, its easier to let go. I will have my good and bad days but understanding makes it easier to move on, and move on I will. time for team RONIN5573


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## whitehawk

This is me said:


> I find it sad that you have been lurking here for months and didn't reach out for advice. Moving out was the wrong thing to do.
> 
> It is all hindsight now, but ask people here the steps you should be taking. You don't have to follow them, but you might get some wise advice that may not make sense since you are so close to it.



Yeah but I don't get this , I've asked and only have a few replies and I'm still as confused as ever , it's almost the same situation cept my wifes not a ***** or controlling but things just went bad between US, for many reasons , yet this has 37 pages .


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## ronin5573

whitehawk said:


> Yeah but I don't get this , I've asked and only have a few replies and I'm still as confused as ever , it's almost the same situation , this has 37 pages .


Did you move out... do you have kids.????


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## whitehawk

anchorwatch said:


> No amount of MC will work as long as there are 3 individuals in a marriage, as you found out.
> She has checked out of the relationship and getting her emotional needs meet by another man. You may have had a part in this, but she should have looked to fix it. Instead she went outside of the marriage.
> Don't leave your house or your children. She wants out, tell her to go to the OM. If you want your family, its time to play hardball. Maybe you can shock her out of it. Does the OM have a family?


My situations only 2wks old but very similar to this one . But you say get her to move out , problem is our financial setup here was planned for 3yrs joint , it's only been 1yr and if she moves out and pulls her wage we'll all lose the place anyway.
The second thing is , really I moved here for her , I don't like it here and wouldn't wanna stay alone, but it is 1/2 mine if we split .
And then more importantly there's my 11yr old daughter. She has a great relationship with her mum and as she's a girl and only child , I don't wanna take that from her , but I don't wanna take her from me either.
What a bloody mess.


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## whitehawk

ronin5573 said:


> Did you move out... do you have kids.????


Hi Ron , so sorry for your **** and that's what it is isn't it.
Man it's only been two weeks , I have no clue what to do yet. I'm still here though and financially can't even afford rent anyway so.
Our situation , the home , was a 3yr plan on two wages, if she goes we'll lose it anyway.
Then there's my daughter , 11 , she's an only child being a girl they have a great relationship so I don't wanna try taking her from her mum , or putting her through this mess. But I don't wanna leave her either.
My wife's not bad , she's not mean , thing's just turned **** with all our stresses this past 5yrs .There's more to it but I got pretty f'd up.
What she's done isn't right , it's quitting , it makes me sick. But she also has been through a lot with us.
I dunno man , only 2wks , no clue what to do with it all.
My latest thoughts are that I'm not rushing off anywhere though just yet. I wouldn't want the house , I don't even like it here , but that's not the point right now and there's my daughter .
No clue yet to be honest, it's a mess.

ps , sorry I don't wanna steel your thread btw but eh , maybe we can bounce offa each other anyway and I'll pm you.


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## ronin5573

whitehawk said:


> Hi Ron , so sorry for your **** and that's what it is isn't it.
> Man it's only been two weeks , I have no clue what to do yet. I'm still here though and financially can't even afford rent anyway so.
> Our situation , the home , was a 3yr plan on two wages, if she goes we'll lose it anyway.
> Then there's my daughter , 11 , she's an only child and a girl.They have a great relationship so I don't wanna try taking her from her mum , or putting her through this mess. But I don't wanna leave her either.
> My wife's not bad , she's not mean , thing's just turned **** with all our stresses this past 5yrs .
> What she's done isn't right , it's quitting , it makes me sick. But she also has been through a lot with us.
> I dunno man , only 2wks , no clue what to do with it all.
> My latest thoughts are that I'm not rushing off anywhere though just yet. I wouldn't want the house , I don't even like it here , but that's not the point right now and there's my daughter .
> No clue yet to be honest, it's a mess.


I felt just as you did in June. So Im a few month up on you. Dont worry about the money thing for now. You have time on that. Best advise I could give you at the stage your in now is tell you wife that your staying. Tell her also that your daughter is staying also. I would also tell her that if its the other man she wants then you understand. Tell her to go with him and that you wont stand in her way of her happienss. This will make you wife respect you because you have respect for your self. Then take a few steps back and let it go for a bit. By the way. Try to eat and try to get as much sleep as you can. This for me has been great for weight loss... not a healthy way to loose the extra pounds but great. Make sure your there for your daughter. Try to spend extra time with her.


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## whitehawk

Thanks Ron.
Just dunno , I,m not letting her come and go here from someone else and in front of me and my daughter I mean for f'k sake. 
It's a rebound anyway and she damn near had a nervous breakdown just wks before . What a bloody stupid time to hook up with someone else.
But when I did the 180 on her and said right get the f'k out of here if your gonna being seeing someone else through this , it backfired and she said ok for now I'll go rent. W
First thought was messing up my daughter for nothing so early on and 2nd was we just can't afford that to , we need her wage to keep the damn house. 
I can't afford to rent either and somems telling me not to just rush off anyway right now so the other part/him , I've managed to hold that right up for now , dunno for how long though. Hoping I find out who he is v soon and reak some more havoc on it for starters . I might even get lucky and he's married.
Then there's my daughter . But financially alone it took us 5yrs to recover from going broke and getting to back here . So although I wouldn't want to stay here alone anyway , gotta figure out the best way to keep and use my share of the pie if it comes to that so I'm not going anywhere right now on my daughter and that one alone.
God I hate this ****.
Yeah , a few drunk all nighters but I'm snapping out of it and trying to look after myself from here. The 180 helps doesn't it. Think of you for a change.


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## ronin5573

whitehawk said:


> Thanks Ron.
> Just dunno , I,m not letting her come and go here from someone else and in front of me and my daughter I mean for f'k sake.
> It's a rebound anyway and she damn near had a nervous breakdown just wks before . What a bloody stupid time to hook up with someone else.
> But when I did the 180 on her and said right get the f'k out of here if your gonna being seeing someone else through this , it backfired and she said ok for now I'll go rent. W
> First thought was messing up my daughter for nothing so early on and 2nd was we just can't afford that to , we need her wage to keep the damn house.
> I can't afford to rent either and somems telling me not to just rush off anyway right now so the other part/him , I've managed to hold that right up for now , dunno for how long though. Hoping I find out who he is v soon and reak some more havoc on it for starters . I might even get lucky and he's married.
> Then there's my daughter . But financially alone it took us 5yrs to recover from going broke and getting to back here . So although I wouldn't want to stay here alone anyway , gotta figure out the best way to keep and use my share of the pie if it comes to that so I'm not going anywhere right now on my daughter and that one alone.
> God I hate this ****.
> Yeah , a few drunk all nighters but I'm snapping out of it and trying to look after myself from here. The 180 helps doesn't it. Think of you for a change.


I actually spoke with my wife now BF .. this is her 2nd. I just told him to not come to my house.....ever and my kids dont spend the night at his house. So far I think he has done what I asked. Like is said .. I broke up the first affair, all she did was find someone else. You have time on your financial worries.


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## whitehawk

Thanks Ron , I'm feeling if I did take off I lose control anyway so I'm not handing that over until I know what I want. She's really scratching over it , don't think she knows what I'm doing.
Great stuff you got to him , I thought I had him but it was just a client, she's a nurse. Now I don't but I told her I do and bluffing her with that right now until hopefully I find him. It's really shaking up the tree.
Told her family what she's doing too - fireworks - from her - I was like so what f'k you . Seems have shaken it up too.
I hate being like this , it's never been us , but it's just so disgusting, disloyal, selfish , makes me sick and , it damn hurts so.
To be honest , even if there is a chance for us though , all this has just damaged us, my feelings , view of her , so much I don't even know if I want it back now anyway. But then there's my daughter.
Anyway I'm thinking as long as we're all still in the same house for now , I still have something , I'm feeling lose that and it'll all be over so I'm thinking this one out before I do anything . At least that's the latest but to honest , I'm a total mess over it all and still have no clue.


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## ronin5573

This weekend is going to be a long one for me. Sunday my stbx is having both kids joint birthday partys. This is something that we did every year and we made a huge deal about it. We would usually have about 150 people over, food drinks jumppy house, clown and the whole bit. Last weekend I had a party for my son as I now on my own I will do parties for each of them. I will make them feel special on their own day. She isnt having the party at the house, She is having it a roller ring not to far from the house. I told her weeks ago that she can do what she wants but dont expect me not to be at the house on that sunday. She threw a fit about it but I dont care. She wants to have her boyfriend over I think but she can go piss off. I dont think many people will attend. None of my family even wants to see her yet alone goto the party. They were with my son last week for his B day. Yet still I still think that sunday will bother me but this is my new life, may as well get used to it now.


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## Sbrown

ronin5573 said:


> This weekend is going to be a long one for me. Sunday my stbx is having both kids joint birthday partys. This is something that we did every year and we made a huge deal about it. We would usually have about 150 people over, food drinks jumppy house, clown and the whole bit. Last weekend I had a party for my son as I now on my own I will do parties for each of them. I will make them feel special on their own day. She isnt having the party at the house, She is having it a roller ring not to far from the house. I told her weeks ago that she can do what she wants but dont expect me not to be at the house on that sunday. She threw a fit about it but I dont care. She wants to have her boyfriend over I think but she can go piss off. I dont think many people will attend. None of my family even wants to see her yet alone goto the party. They were with my son last week for his B day. Yet still I still think that sunday will bother me but this is my new life, may as well get used to it now.


Bring a "friend" a smoking hot one if you can lol.


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## ronin5573

Sbrown said:


> Bring a "friend" a smoking hot one if you can lol.


I think Im getting into the acceptance phase of this whole ordeal. However I dont think Im ready to meet the BF John. I want to think I would handle it like a gentileman, however maybe I would bash his skull in. Maybe better to avoid it for now.


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## Sbrown

ronin5573 said:


> I think Im getting into the acceptance phase of this whole ordeal. However I dont think Im ready to meet the BF John. I want to think I would handle it like a gentileman, however maybe I would bash his skull in. Maybe better to avoid it for now.


NO WAY!!!!!!! Make your stbxw's blood boil! Go and have a great time!


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## ronin5573

Sbrown said:


> NO WAY!!!!!!! Make your stbxw's blood boil! Go and have a great time!


You make made my day. Truth is Im not invited, nor would I subject myself to a situation like that.


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## Sbrown

ronin5573 said:


> You make made my day. Truth is Im not invited, nor would I subject myself to a situation like that.


Well alright. Then find SOMETHING to do. Do not sit at home all weekend. Go rent a room at a hotel or something.


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## missmolly

What about a pamper day at a day spa? You could have manicure, pedicure, massage, facial and perhaps even a Brazilian!!
Took me decades to talk my husband into luxuries for men and now he is hooked.


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## Incognito007

I hope everything works out for you. I am having my own issues that I intend to post about very soon. Take care!


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## whitehawk

Sorry haven't been back ron , not upto it. 150 people , that's one hell of a bd party. Thankfully that ones out for awhile now.
Anyway , she went down to the folks Sunday, to clear up my mess she reckons - good . Me and my daughter hung out , went to the beach then couched out all arvo later, DVs. 
When she got home she brought us tea and it was really weird , just like any other night, she was talking away about the trip and crap. Thinking hmmm, she's been thinking , and now she wishes it was just any other night coming home from the trip and chatting away like we use to.
I had an emotional day though in that area and was too f'd off to say much back . This morning she came in b4 work , smiling , said goodbye - what !
Back later


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## Hopefull363

How are you doing Ronin?


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## ronin5573

Was a long but nice weekend. I got off work on Saturday night at 8pm. Then took off to meet a buddie in Michigan city Indiana. Went out and had a great time. Went home and spent the night at my Moms. Kids werent home anyway when I called them, they were at johns with my ex. Got up on Sunday and took care of a few things. Then hung out with my borther in law. Sunday was the kids birthday party that my ex had at a roller skating rink. She wouldnt have it at the house because of my still living there. After the party then went back to Indiana and I assume spent the night at Johns house. I stopped back at my house on Monday Morning at 11. House was empty but my ex's car was there. So I assume that after the birthday party then came back to the house and then dropped the stuff off and then they all left in John car. Then got home at 8:45 pm last night. Im not sure if john drove them home or not .. .it may have been my cousin as John prolly doesnt want to meet me.


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> Was a long but nice weekend. I got off work on Saturday night at 8pm. Then took off to meet a buddie in Michigan city Indiana. Went out and had a great time. Went home and spent the night at my Moms. Kids werent home anyway when I called them, they were at johns with my ex. Got up on Sunday and took care of a few things. Then hung out with my borther in law. Sunday was the kids birthday party that my ex had at a roller skating rink. She wouldnt have it at the house because of my still living there. After the party then went back to Indiana and I assume spent the night at Johns house. I stopped back at my house on Monday Morning at 11. House was empty but my ex's car was there. So I assume that after the birthday party then came back to the house and then dropped the stuff off and then they all left in John car. Then got home at 8:45 pm last night. Im not sure if john drove them home or not .. .it may have been my cousin as John prolly doesnt want to meet me.


How would your cousin come into this picture if they spent Monday at John's house ?

Are you saying that you have relatives enabling the stbxw and her affair with her bf John ??


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> How would your cousin come into this picture if they spent Monday at John's house ?
> 
> Are you saying that you have relatives enabling the stbxw and her affair with her bf John ??


JH52 Thats exactically what Im saying. My 2 cousins and my aunt as well have been a supporter of my ex. It actually has caused a family rift. I was really hopeing that my aunt" my moms sister" wouldnt goto the kids party that my ex had for them but she did go. Im upset by it. By my aunt showing up, meeting my ex's boyfriend, in my mind she crossed a line that I dont think I could forgive. My cousins are garden variety trash and I dont and havent spoken to them in a long time. My wife and my one cousin have become close throughout all of this. My cousin will give here some really bad advise. Like I have said all alone my ex has a very uncanny way of altering the truth, Im sure my cousins and aunt believe her nonsence. Its not like any of them called throughout all of this to ask my position. None of them have called me, not even one time. As I have said, when the poop really hits the fan you realize real fast who your friends are and who you can count on. Im keeping score and when its all said and done will be done with my family who has backed my ex.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> By my aunt showing up, meeting my ex's boyfriend, in my mind she crossed a line that I dont think I could forgive.


Time to let your aunt know that.


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> JH52 Thats exactically what Im saying. My 2 cousins and my aunt as well have been a supporter of my ex. It actually has caused a family rift. I was really hopeing that my aunt" my moms sister" wouldnt goto the kids party that my ex had for them but she did go. Im upset by it. By my aunt showing up, meeting my ex's boyfriend, in my mind she crossed a line that I dont think I could forgive. My cousins are garden variety trash and I dont and havent spoken to them in a long time. My wife and my one cousin have become close throughout all of this. My cousin will give here some really bad advise. Like I have said all alone my ex has a very uncanny way of altering the truth, Im sure my cousins and aunt believe her nonsence. Its not like any of them called throughout all of this to ask my position. None of them have called me, not even one time. As I have said, when the poop really hits the fan you realize real fast who your friends are and who you can count on. Im keeping score and when its all said and done will be done with my family who has backed my ex.


Just WOW. 

Guess it is true that sometimes friends who are not blood relatives are more relatiives in hard times. Sorry you are going through this crap with your relatives as well as your crazy stbxw.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Time to let your aunt know that.


I will one day. That day isnt today. I wont lie that Im not angry about it. I have enough things to worry about, maybe even too much right now. No reason to start another war with my aunt. All in good time.


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Just WOW.
> 
> Guess it is true that sometimes friends who are not blood relatives are more relatiives in hard times. Sorry you are going through this crap with your relatives as well as your crazy stbxw.


I can imagine how Cesar felt when brutis stabbed him. truth is my ex made it a point and made sure she showed up. She knew what it would cause by my aunt showing up. But my aunt made her choice.


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## Hopefull363

That's horrible ronin. What comes around goes around. Just hope you get to see it come back around to your family. How long until your court date?


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> That's horrible ronin. What comes around goes around. Just hope you get to see it come back around to your family. How long until your court date?


It's bad. My aunt and I forgot to mention she's my god mother. I guess if she would have a least called I would feel better if it were for the kids. She didn't so I have to assume she approves of my stbxw infidelity. Stab in the back, but I'm done with her and her daughters. Court isn't untill October, settlement negotiations should start to heat up soon
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopefull363

I can't wait for you to be able to move on with your life and not have this pain everyday. It's hard to believe that your own family would add to that pain. I hope you are able to work things out to your benefit with the visitation.


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## ronin5573

Hopefull363 said:


> I can't wait for you to be able to move on with your life and not have this pain everyday. It's hard to believe that your own family would add to that pain. I hope you are able to work things out to your benefit with the visitation.


It will work out. I say this because in the end I will be done with her for good. Visitation I hate to call it that. I will have a life with me kids no matter what. Different, but it will be great
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

Ive learned a few important detail recently. My kids will not level with me in front of each other. They are afraid the other will tell my wife what they said. She must be playing them against each other. My son and I alone had a nice talk yesterday about whats going on. He said that mommy makes him tell me that when they are in Indiana they stay in a hotel. He said that they stay at Johns house. He started to cry, it was a like a huge weight lifted off his shoulders. So I asked him were does he sleep when hes there. He said he and his sister sleep on the couch. Then I asked him were does mommy sleep. He said she sleeps with John in John's bedroom. Also John has been to my house several time in the past month. Can you imagine that while having to deal with this divorce, my children now have to deal with the fact that mommy is "SLEEPING" with John and they have to bear witness to it. Horrific. I told him a month ago to stay out of my house and that I dont want to kids to sleep at his house. Guess hes flipping me off on both counts. I do believe 70% of it is my nut job ex putting him up to it in hopes that it will start a real conflict between the 2 of us. But hes still partly to blame. All of this information gives me some real insite as to why my kids are so distraught around me. They are forced to lie to their father or they will have to deal with their mothers rath. He also told me that they had a big agrument a few weeks ago. The kids told John that he was the reason why me and my ex were getting a divorce. I guess he flipped out. He told me that John has never directly yelled at him or his sister or touched them both in any way. Thank god as that would make me take pretty direct action. I couldnt sleep just thinking about what these poor kids are dealing with because of her actions.


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## cmf

It makes my blood boil reading that 
I would get them in therapy immediately. Have the therapist address this with her. Big reality check for her.

Is there no legal way to stop him from being in your home and the kids sleeping on his couch?


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## turnera

Time for video cameras installed.

So sad. They're in therapy, right?


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## Patrick1959

Ronin

Well now you have a source of information about what is going on with your STBXW and fortunately you are reflective rather then reactive. It seems to me that the difficult part will be to use this information to your advantage, and more importantly for your children’s advantage, without exposing them to your STBXW's wrath. 

My first thought would be Child Protective Services? But this sometimes makes a bad situation worse. If they don’t do anything it could make things worse for your children. Other thoughts may be a counselor or teacher at school but again your STBXW may manipulate the counselor or the teacher to her advantage. Never underestimate the manipulative ability of those with a disturbed personality. 

It would be good to get some documentation for your lawyer but if your wife discovered this or it was used in court then again your children would feel the wrath of your STBXW. 

Your best option may be to hire a PI, now that you know what, when and where events are occurring you may be able to save some money if you are paying by the hour. The question then becomes what is the benefit of having professional documentation about what is going on? This will let you get information without losing your inside source and protect your children from suspicion. 

1.	Will a PI report help your lawyer in the custody negotiation? States have different laws, but I know that in Georgia there is a morality clause that a judge can issue that prevents a separated partner from having the adultery partner in the same home as the children until the divorce. 
2. A PI may also find out some more about John and perhaps there could be something in his past that will help your negotiation. 
3.	With a report that John is lying about having your children in his home or being in your home may give you some leverage with him. From what you write about your wife I suspect that she will likely pursue her agenda without regard of the consequences; John may be someone who has a sense of proportion and may not like the effect of throwing bombs. He may be the key to moderating your STBXW’s tantrums.


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## ronin5573

Patrick1959 said:


> Ronin
> 
> Well now you have a source of information about what is going on with your STBXW and fortunately you are reflective rather then reactive. It seems to me that the difficult part will be to use this information to your advantage, and more importantly for your children’s advantage, without exposing them to your STBXW's wrath.
> 
> My first thought would be Child Protective Services? But this sometimes makes a bad situation worse. If they don’t do anything it could make things worse for your children. Other thoughts may be a counselor or teacher at school but again your STBXW may manipulate the counselor or the teacher to her advantage. Never underestimate the manipulative ability of those with a disturbed
> 
> 
> patrick
> Thanks for your reply. I'm not trying to make heat of passion moves. I'm also not trying to be petty. Reflective is the best way to be at this point . I believe she is trying to put me into a situation where John and I have some serious conflict. I'm not going to do anything like that unless the kids are in physical danger. My stbx has already put them in emotional danger. I have given some thought about the state involvement ... Dcfs and such but I really do think it would do more harm then good. At least I don't think my kids would benefit. I know what I want. Kids are first, divorce is second. Trick is to take the correct steps to achieve that goal and not be childless or pennyless.
> 
> It would be good to get some documentation for your lawyer but if your wife discovered this or it was used in court then again your children would feel the wrath of your STBXW.
> 
> Your best option may be to hire a PI, now that you know what, when and where events are occurring you may be able to save some money if you are paying by the hour. The question then becomes what is the benefit of having professional documentation about what is going on? This will let you get information without losing your inside source and protect your children from suspicion.
> 
> 1.	Will a PI report help your lawyer in the custody negotiation? States have different laws, but I know that in Georgia there is a morality clause that a judge can issue that prevents a separated partner from having the adultery partner in the same home as the children until the divorce.
> 2. A PI may also find out some more about John and perhaps there could be something in his past that will help your negotiation.
> 3.	With a report that John is lying about having your children in his home or being in your home may give you some leverage with him. From what you write about your wife I suspect that she will likely pursue her agenda without regard of the consequences; John may be someone who has a sense of proportion and may not like the effect of throwing bombs. He may be the key to moderating your STBXW’s tantrums.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

Last night I got off early and was home for the kids to get off the bus. We had dinner and did homework and had a nice evening. The ex worked till 6:30 and when it was 8pm I figured she would stay at Johns. Put the kids to bed at 8:30 and I laid down at 9:15. At 12:40 am I hear the garage door open. OH boy. So I got up and locked the bedroom door. When she isnt there I dont sleep in the basement. So She came upstairs and unlocked the door. Came in turned on all the lights. I right away turned my phone on to video record. She was being real loud, the fact I was sleeping didnt really concern her. She went to the bathroom and after 10 mins of this realized that I wasnt leaving so she left then slept on the couch I think. Then at 5:30 am she came in again, light doors slamming the whole bit. She said its her room and all of her things are there so she will shower there, and I can go F__k myself. She said she can do what she wants. Then she locked the bathroom door and jumped in the shower. So I went into the bathroom then used the toilet while she was showering. She said a few choice words which pissed me off so I Lite up a cigarette right there. In 10 years I have never smoked in the house. She looked dumfounded. I just simply said that I also can do whatever I want. I smoked the whole thing then flushed it and then went back to bed. Then she got dressed and went to work. No other words spoken. Guess were going to play the I do what I want game now.


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## A Bit Much

It's becoming War of the Roses. Sh!t is getting real Ronin.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> It's becoming War of the Roses. Sh!t is getting real Ronin.


Hope not. I seen that movie and they both died in the end.


----------



## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> She said its her room and all of her things are there


Well, THAT's easy, isn't it? 

Move all her stuff to the guest bedroom.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Hope not. I seen that movie and they both died in the end.


I've seen it too. Not pretty. Lots of standoffs. Scenes like the one you just described.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> I've seen it too. Not pretty. Lots of standoffs. Scenes like the one you just described.


It really is crazy. There is a fine line between keeping the peace and letting her walk all over me. I try to walk the line. Negociations about marital assets will begin soon and Im still hopeful that we can resolve it quickly. Time will tell.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> It really is crazy. There is a fine line between keeping the peace and letting her walk all over me. I try to walk the line. Negociations about marital assets will begin soon and Im still hopeful that we can resolve it quickly. Time will tell.


You don't have a spare bedroom in the house? IDK if I would have been in the bedroom. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with her... if she primarily sleeps in there, then you kind of set this last bit of nonsense up. KWIM?


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> You don't have a spare bedroom in the house? IDK if I would have been in the bedroom. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with her... if she primarily sleeps in there, then you kind of set this last bit of nonsense up. KWIM?


No spare bedroom. When she isnt there I sleep in my bed. When she is there I sleep in the basement. I dont hastle her when she is sleeping. Let her take the couch


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> It really is crazy. There is a fine line between keeping the peace and letting her walk all over me. I try to walk the line. Negociations about marital assets will begin soon and Im still hopeful that we can resolve it quickly. Time will tell.


I don't see the negotiations about the assets getting resolved soon unless you give her everything -- and that ain't gonna happen.


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> I don't see the negotiations about the assets getting resolved soon unless you give her everything -- and that ain't gonna happen.


Guess were going to find out.


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## anchorwatch

Ron, If I remember correctly the first court date is a little over a month away? I know it's rough, but I'd say your on the down hill slide now. Start familiarizing yourself with co-parenting techniques with an angry spouse. There are plenty of articles to be found.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> No spare bedroom. When she isnt there I sleep in my bed. When she is there I sleep in the basement. I dont hastle her when she is sleeping. Let her take the couch


But thats the thing. Her whereabouts aren't always accounted for and unpredictable. 

All I'm saying is, why engage her when you really don't have to? When she's not there at bed time I would assume nothing and sleep where I know I wouldn't be disturbed. If she only sleeps in the master bedroom in the house, then whatever. Let her have it. It's not worth disturbing your peace more than necessary. Stay in the basement.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Ron, If I remember correctly the first court date is a little over a month away? I know it's rough, but I'd say your on the down hill slide now. Start familiarizing yourself with co-parenting techniques with an angry spouse. There are plenty of articles to be found.


I have. I even took the state co parenting class. I think were on the down side. I still think she wants to done quickly. But with how shes acting, its difficult to predict her moves. But Im willing to take the divorce as far as I have to up to and including forgetting negociations and taking it to trial.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> But thats the thing. Her whereabouts aren't always accounted for and unpredictable.
> 
> All I'm saying is, why engage her when you really don't have to? When she's not there at bed time I would assume nothing and sleep where I know I wouldn't be disturbed. If she only sleeps in the master bedroom in the house, then whatever. Let her have it. It's not worth disturbing your peace more than necessary. Stay in the basement.


I really do try my best to avoid her. I dont sleep well on the couch. If there is an open bed why not take it. Haveing her sleep on the couch once in a while will keep her wanting this done quickly.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I really do try my best to avoid her. I dont sleep well on the couch. If there is an open bed why not take it. Haveing her sleep on the couch once in a while will keep her wanting this done quickly.


I don't think so, but you handle it the way you think you should. 

You don't sound like you slept well in the bed either. I'd take the couch personally.

ETA: I would even buy myself a mattress and throw it on the floor just to avoid being near her.


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## anchorwatch

ronin5573 said:


> I have. I even took the state co parenting class. I think were on the down side. I still think she wants to done quickly. But with how shes acting, its difficult to predict her moves. But Im willing to take the divorce as far as I have to up to and including forgetting negociations and taking it to trial.


If that's the case, and your willing to go that far during negotiations. I don't think she'll have the patience to wait you out. She wants you gone and her single life. 
Then she can push some other poor 'John' around, till she can't get what she wants from him or she gets to old for any man to care.


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## Patrick1959

Ronin

I think you are correct and you have have had remarkable restraint considering he stress you are under. 

As things don't go her way she may continue to escalate the conflict, do your best to stay calm. 

If you are correct about her trying to create a conflict between you and John; when she can't get a response from you she will likely push him harder. He may start experiencing some of what he has contributed to putting you through. 

Be careful how he responds and make sure you take measures to protect yourself.


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## Shaggy

Have you talked to your lawyer about preventing her from taking the kids around the OM and across state lines?

She's a married woman openly cheating with a man and exposing her kids to it.


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## warlock07

This woman is just poison.


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> This woman is just poison.


She is gone. Getting her gone legally is the next step.


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## ronin5573

Shaggy said:


> Have you talked to your lawyer about preventing her from taking the kids around the OM and across state lines?
> 
> She's a married woman openly cheating with a man and exposing her kids to it.


She is married and doing those things. It gives you some insite into her thinking. She isnt hiding this guy to anyone including our kids. I think she trying to convince herself that hes the one to save her from all her misery. She thinks that if this guy is in her life then that will mean including the kids. I have a strange feeling that in time she will find the same problems with him as she did with me. Maybe then she will realize that the problems are within herself. But maybe not. She isnt my concern anymore.


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## iBolt

Ronin

I have spent the last, I don't even know how long reading your story. I don't do hail Marys but I will pray for you and your family + your ex too.

If all you're saying about your responses to your ex are true - then you are next to the biblical Job in patience. Dragging the kids into things this way is TOTALLY unforgivable. I am not sure they will ever forget what their mother is doing. She may well reap a whirlwind later.

Let me just suggest to you that you do not allow yourself to be intimidated by her or her lawyer. That is the job of the latter. They will try to play games with your mind and tell you how few options you have since your ex is the main carer blah blah blah. Do not relent in fighting for your kids. You will have to make sacrifices but it is worth it. Your ex is clearly unstable. You should make this apparent when in court. Would you want her continuing like this with your kids in your absence? Their innocent minds are being poisoned. It appears to me that you are no longer dealing with a sane person. You might as well be dealing a member of the Taliban hell bent (or paradise bent) on blowing himself up. Heck, what is she actually fighting for? 

I so feel for you. This is absolutely horrendous behaviour. I am just gobsmacked. Stay strong. Your kids ABSOLUTELY NEED YOU TO KEEP YOURSELF STABLE. You must try to be a source of stability and safety. You must be their safe harbour. God bless you


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## ronin5573

It was my weekend with the kids this weekend. My son spent the day with my mom on saturday. My daughter went with my cousin, yes the same cousin that back my ex to goto a theme park. My cousins daughter was in somekind of cheerleading compitetion there and my daughter really wanted to go. I dont like my cousin after all she has done but I didnt want to punish my daughter by not letting her go as she really wanted to. So she came home to my moms house and we all spend saturday night there. On sunday we all got up and I made a nice breakfast for everyone and we had plans to goto the zoo. We were about 5 mins about to leave for the zoo and it was like someone turned a switch on my daughter. She was crying and carrying on for the next 3 1/2 hours. This is the first time she had a meltdown in front of my mother and father. We spoke with her to reassure her that it would all work out. Just like my son had a problem with my wife getting them to lie to me. In the end it was good that she let it all out and she really did feel better. After that she was fantastic the rest of the day. We got home to my house and I took them for a nice long bike ride and stopped at the park for a bit. My stbx didnt come home from Johns untill 745 this morning. She walked in and I walked out.


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## turnera

IIWY, I would have them in at LEAST weekly therapy, if not more, given what your wife is doing. This is going to mess them up for life.


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## ronin5573

iBolt said:


> Ronin
> 
> I have spent the last, I don't even know how long reading your story. I don't do hail Marys but I will pray for you and your family + your ex too.
> 
> If all you're saying about your responses to your ex are true - then you are next to the biblical Job in patience. Dragging the kids into things this way is TOTALLY unforgivable. I am not sure they will ever forget what their mother is doing. She may well reap a whirlwind later.
> 
> ronin--- I dont know about a biblical job but it really has been and exercise in self control. Someone has to be the parent to the kids and that person will be me. And I agree with you what she had done is unforgivable.
> 
> Let me just suggest to you that you do not allow yourself to be intimidated by her or her lawyer. That is the job of the latter. They will try to play games with your mind and tell you how few options you have since your ex is the main carer blah blah blah.
> 
> Ronin--- The things that I valued were my family and my kids. All the lawyer is there is do is fight about money. The thngs that were important to me ive already lost to a certain extent. Money is something else and I can always make more. Im not intimidated by either one of them. Im willing if need be to take things as far as they need to go.
> 
> Do not relent in fighting for your kids. You will have to make sacrifices but it is worth it. Your ex is clearly unstable. You should make this apparent when in court. Would you want her continuing like this with your kids in your absence? Their innocent minds are being poisoned. It appears to me that you are no longer dealing with a sane person. You might as well be dealing a member of the Taliban hell bent (or paradise bent) on blowing himself up. Heck, what is she actually fighting for?
> 
> Ronin---- I have many questions about how she has acted. These are questions that I most likely will never get an answer too. I dont know what happened, and I cant invest anymore time to think about it. She did what she did for her own reasons selfish or not.
> 
> I so feel for you. This is absolutely horrendous behaviour. I am just gobsmacked. Stay strong. Your kids ABSOLUTELY NEED YOU TO KEEP YOURSELF STABLE. You must try to be a source of stability and safety. You must be their safe harbour. God bless you


Ronin--- I believe the kids were thrust into this crap and the fact that my stbxw treats like like pawns in a chess game truly is horrendous. I do my best and will call to any ocasion when the kids need to talk or just simply vent. Thank you for all you kind words. Everyday I question my actions. I hope I will be rewarded for them by having a great relainshionship with my kids in the future. To my ex its all about power and control. Matter of fact I think her next step will be to put John and I into a situation of conflict. I dont really know if hes stroung enought to think for himself or just just under her spell right now. Whatever happens I will do what I have to. First order will be to ask him to leave. second will be to call the police. I hope it never comes to the point of physical conflict. After all I'm a 3 deg black belt and can handle most situations such as that, Im also smart enough to know that no good would come of such a conflict. I hope he stays away.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> IIWY, I would have them in at LEAST weekly therapy, if not more, given what your wife is doing. This is going to mess them up for life.


I have explored many options and I think right now my daughter whould take it as I think she crazy. She got that idea from my ex. They will have to go, Im just not convinced that now is the right time. I also looked into getting a child advocate from the state but I feel at this point it might do more harm then good.


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## turnera

Have you spoken to a professional about your belief? I think you're wrong, personally, and I know that professional child psychologists are quite capable of dispelling that fear.


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## iBolt

ronin5573 said:


> I have explored many options and I think right now my daughter whould take it as I think she crazy. She got that idea from my ex. They will have to go, Im just not convinced that now is the right time. I also looked into getting a child advocate from the state but I feel at this point it might do more harm then good.


If you can get them to see someone now, I'd suggest you do so. It is about giving reassurance and helping them frame/shape the world as it unfolds before them. I am not an expert but going by my experience, kids, when left to understand the world themselves - especially a highly volatile one, is a very dangerous gamble.

Leaving it to when things get better or finalised might be unhealthy.

PS: She will always be a factor in their life and perhaps a toxic one at that so things may not get as settled/better. Act NOW and help your kids as much as you can.

You are a good man. Stay that way. The tensions will ease. She will know what she can control and what she can't. You will have peace of mind (with a niggling ex in the periphery). Just hang in there buddy.


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## ronin5573

I got the proposed Property Settlement agreement today from my lawyer. She basically wants it all. I do know that its a negociation. Im sure her lawyer is adding a buch of things that my stbx and I have never discussed. Maybe some people just sign there things with out really reading them so they always start it out that way. So now it all begins. If her first pass is indicitive of how she is going about this, then this whole thing may take some time. I will go through it all very carefully then have my lawyer draw up a new one.


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## iBolt

ronin5573 said:


> I got the proposed Property Settlement agreement today from my lawyer. She basically wants it all. I do know that its a negociation. Im sure her lawyer is adding a buch of things that my stbx and I have never discussed. Maybe some people just sign there things with out really reading them so they always start it out that way. So now it all begins. If her first pass is indicitive of how she is going about this, then this whole thing may take some time. I will go through it all very carefully then have my lawyer draw up a new one.


I think you have the right idea here. They'll play hardball, start high and play the 'she's the mother game'. Don't blink an eyelid. Everything is up to negotiation and a half sensible judge plus a good lawyer on your side. Good luck!


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## ronin5573

Yesterday, I spend 2 hours with my lawyer. We have to go through the marital agreement line by line. It was almost insane. So we will send to her lawyer a revised version of it and then see what she does. It might take a week or two to hear back. I still think she is looking for a quick resolution, but others think she wants world war 3. I suppose we will find out in 2 weeks and she what she and her lawyer come up with. I thought I would be more stressed about it all, but Im not really. My revision of it all I think was realistic and far better in her favor with the kids best interest at heart. If she is still out of line then I think it will be time to plan for the worse. Im fully prepared to take things as far as they need to go but also realize that if things goto trial, then ultimatly we will both end up with less and the lawyer will get more. Does she realize that? Guess were going to find out.


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## iBolt

WARNING:

DO NOT EXPECT REASONABLENESS OR RATIONAL THINKING DURING A DIVORCE.

Prepare yourself for your wife (encouraged by her lawyer) to take you to the cleaners. Don't expect mercy or again, I repeat, her to be reasonable. I hope I am wrong but I am only speaking from experience. You might be surprised how entitled she acts despite all she has done. Even worse, you might get a judge who only feeds this in her thus leaving you scratching your head...

When two elephants start fighting, do you think they care about the ants in the grass?


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## ronin5573

iBolt said:


> WARNING:
> 
> DO NOT EXPECT REASONABLENESS OR RATIONAL THINKING DURING A DIVORCE.
> 
> Prepare yourself for your wife (encouraged by her lawyer) to take you to the cleaners. Don't expect mercy or again, I repeat, her to be reasonable. I hope I am wrong but I am only speaking from experience. You might be surprised how entitled she acts despite all she has done. Even worse, you might get a judge who only feeds this in her thus leaving you scratching your head...
> 
> When two elephants start fighting, do you think they care about the ants in the grass?


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## ronin5573

I was hoping for the best, but planing for the worst. My guess after all she has done will to be continually be nasty including the divorce process. But I still think she wants it done and over with.


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## ronin5573

I spoke with the kids last night and they were going somewhere and would or couldnt say where. John's I suspect. They also said that the dog was left at home. They all knew that I wouldnt be there this weekend. I hope she put the dog in a kennell but most likely left it in its cage. I spoke with both kids this morning and they were at John's. They didnt seem like they could talk to me, maybe John was standing there and they didnt know what to say. 
Didnt a cat die in the movie war of the roses? Guess in my movie it will be a dog.


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## warlock07

Can you do anything about the dog ?


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## Prodigal

Ronin, I've followed your marital meltdown from the first post. Your kids need counseling. Now. I went through this type of hell when I was 9 years old. I cannot begin to tell you how horrible it was for me. At least your daughter got to let it out when she had her meltdown.

You are keeping a stiff upper lip. But your wife is an adulterous 'ho. She is dragging your children over the coals. 

F*** it. Get them to a counselor who specializes in dealing with children going through this. Heck, they're confused, they're being dragged from one house to another, they're being told to cover up, they see the truth but are being told it's not "their" truth.

I understand, and respect, your ability to remain calm and rational in this insane situation. But these are children. You can support and love them all you want. But a licensed professional will know how to do what it takes to get them on an even keel.

I am not suggesting in any way your are not an excellent parent. But you are not a licensed therapist. Also, you are dealing with your own angst and frustrations while your crazy wife is putting everyone through the emotional wringer.

Level-headedness is needed. Detachment is needed. But children are not equipped with the tools to accomplish such things. Often, they need professional intervention to help them work through a situation like this.

JMO. Take what you want and leave the rest.


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## turnera

So...WHEN are you going to GET THE HELL OFF THE POT and step up and change the dynamics? If not for yourself, then at LEAST for your kids, and if not for your kdis, for God's sake, at least for the DOG?!


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> I spoke with the kids last night and they were going somewhere and would or couldnt say where. John's I suspect. They also said that the dog was left at home. They all knew that I wouldnt be there this weekend. I hope she put the dog in a kennell but most likely left it in its cage. I spoke with both kids this morning and they were at John's. They didnt seem like they could talk to me, maybe John was standing there and they didnt know what to say.
> Didnt a cat die in the movie war of the roses? Guess in my movie it will be a dog.


 ronin, shame on you.

I CANNOT BELIEVE you are actiing in such a passive, beta way as to allow not only your KIDS but also your DOG to suffer because you are such a wimp you can't stand up and protect what you are responsible [email protected]#$@!

If I get banned, I don't care. I am furious that you describe how TERRIFIED your OWN KIDS are... and YOU DO NOTHING.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> I spoke with the kids last night and they were going somewhere and would or couldnt say where.


OMG, ronin, do you not SEE what you are saying?!

Your kids are TERRIFIED!

How could you move forward knowing that your kids are sitting in the middle of a WAR ZONE and you did NOTHING!

Wouldn't - or COULDN'T - say where? OMG, how much do you think your kids are suffering, that they have NO ADULT who will protect them?


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## Viseral

Yo Turnera! Back off! Ronin is doing the right thing. He's kickin butt and takin names. He's the one fighting for his kids and staying home with them and being a good father despite his psycho ex wife who cheated on him and is now trying to take him for everything he has. He's the alpha and moved back into his house to support his kids and had a lot of encouragement from us here on TAM. His stbxw took the kids to her new boyfriends house. They're not in physical danger, it's just very inappropriate for his ex to do such a thing and most likely not good for them mentally. But she also has a right to her children and ronin can't control everything. As for the dog, I think his comment was semi sarcastic.


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## Viseral

Don't worry Ronin, we got your back!


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> ronin, shame on you.
> 
> I CANNOT BELIEVE you are actiing in such a passive, beta way as to allow not only your KIDS but also your DOG to suffer because you are such a wimp you can't stand up and protect what you are responsible [email protected]#$@!
> 
> If I get banned, I don't care. I am furious that you describe how TERRIFIED your OWN KIDS are... and YOU DO NOTHING.


Why would you get banned? I posted here for others advise not for all to agree with me. I also appreciate your comments and its what I want. I suppose I dont understand your comments about being passive. Perhaps some of your ideas about how to go about the things you suggest would help. Understand that my stbxw is still in a fog or a midlife chrisis or however you want to label it. She is acting like a 18 year old girl in High School and will stop at nothing to find her own version of happiness. While she is acting this way she feels the need to still control me and what I do. Unfortunatly She doenst get to file for divorce, have multiple affair partners in my marriage, and be truely a terrible person to me and still get any form of control or respect. I do feel that my children are suffering emotional trama. I also dont feel they are in any physical danger while they are with her. So I ask what would you have me do. Go off on some child like tanget that will only put me behind bars. Go kidnap my children and take them away while would also put me behind bars. Snap on her and get into a physical confrentation with either her or her current boyfriend John. Nope, Im not being beta and I am nothing that resemblems a whimp. If we met in person I think you would agree with me. I am doing my utmost to preserve whats left of my sanity and self esteem. Someone has to be the adult in this, it will not be her so it has to be me. I think I will be rewarded in the future by my childrens understanding of how I delt with the situation and what kind of father I was to them as all of this was happening. Im open to all comment and suggestions. Please give me real world ideas that would be constructive and Im all ears.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> OMG, ronin, do you not SEE what you are saying?!
> 
> Your kids are TERRIFIED!
> 
> How could you move forward knowing that your kids are sitting in the middle of a WAR ZONE and you did NOTHING!
> 
> Wouldn't - or COULDN'T - say where? OMG, how much do you think your kids are suffering, that they have NO ADULT who will protect them?


By drillling them as to where they are going and how they are going to spend their day will only once again put them in the middle of the situation. I do know where they are and where they go. Once again what would you have me do? You say that Im not doing anything. Give me a real idea thats in my kids best interest. I think you would have me escalate the situation which in the end wouldnt really solve any of this and only make the kids feel that what their mother tells them is true.


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## A Bit Much

Why haven't you gotten the kids in counseling yet Ronin? They need to talk to a neutral 3rd party about what's happening with you and your stxw. They're in the middle of two parents they love, and no matter how 'good' you are to them, they're confused and scared and honestly just want you and mom to get along. Since that's not going to happen they need a safe place to talk about it. It's not with you or her, whether you believe that or not. They're in the middle of the two adults that are supposed to love and protect them no matter what always. In the middle of loving you BOTH and wanting this all to go back to normal. 

Why aren't they in counseling yet?


----------



## ronin5573

Viseral said:


> Yo Turnera! Back off! Ronin is doing the right thing. He's kickin butt and takin names. He's the one fighting for his kids and staying home with them and being a good father despite his psycho ex wife who cheated on him and is now trying to take him for everything he has. He's the alpha and moved back into his house to support his kids and had a lot of encouragement from us here on TAM. His stbxw took the kids to her new boyfriends house. They're not in physical danger, it's just very inappropriate for his ex to do such a thing and most likely not good for them mentally. But she also has a right to her children and ronin can't control everything. As for the dog, I think his comment was semi sarcastic.


Thanks for the back up. I think you may have a better understanding of things then others. She is the kids mother and the right to do things and take them places. Do I agree with her taking them to Johns house and spend the night? Hell no, and as a matter a fact I told John and my ex that what they do is up to them. 1 I dont want to the kids to sleep at Johns house. Good reason for this. I dont want my kids sleeping on his couch and then have to watch their mother walk into John bedroom. This happened. 2. I didnt want John in my house. Good reason for this also. I honestly dont know how I will react. I dont think I would react well. Anyway He has been in my house a few times just never while I was there. He broke the only 2 rules I made. I also think he was most likely forced into that situation by my stbxw. But this will all be delt with in good time.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Why haven't you gotten the kids in counseling yet Ronin? They need to talk to a neutral 3rd party about what's happening with you and your stxw. They're in the middle of two parents they love, and no matter how 'good' you are to them, they're confused and scared and honestly just want you and mom to get along. Since that's not going to happen they need a safe place to talk about it. It's not with you or her, whether you believe that or not. They're in the middle of the two adults that are supposed to love and protect them no matter what always. In the middle of loving you BOTH and wanting this all to go back to normal.
> 
> Why aren't they in counseling yet?


With 2 of the local family counselors that I have spoke with so far they seemed to think that Both parents need to be on board. Trust me that my ex in not on board as she thinks she could be nominated for mother of the year this year. She has already basically told my daughter that if I take them that means my daughter is crazy. When I tried to speak with her about it she broke down in tears and cried big time. My wife doesnt want her in therapy. She prefers to fill the kids head with her version of the truth. I tried to explain it different but shes 11 and just doesnt get it. I can just do it but then I will really create a huge rift between my daughter and myself. Right now with everything I'm going through I dont think I can handle that. The long term benefits of both getting in counseling would be great. I honestly belive that. The short term it would be hell for me. My son hasnt acted this way but hes only 8. I dont know what to do really. Im trying to think long term but right now I need my kids. I need them to understand that I will always be there for them. By in my daughters eyes pushing her away is the last thing I want right now. I totally agree with you that they want peace at home. I have done as much as I can in regared to really trying to avoid my ex and keep that peace. However you have to understand how hard that is. I think somewhere down deep my ex feels that she has wronged me. She feels that she is at fault for breaking up the family and doing this to the kids. However the draw of the affair is too great for her to fight it. She isnt being rational about this do to her midlife chrisis or whatever. Her way of dealing with this guilt is to lash out at me and blame me for ALL of her problems. Not some of but ALL of her problems. By the way its pretty text book as to how shes acting. Trust me I have read up a great deal about how shes acting. Wifes that have affairs seem to follow a script and she really is. They rewrite the history. I honest think after all of this reading my ex is an extreme case. She was exposed at the age of 13 to her fathers cheating. He took her along to meet his girlfriends and such. She is doing the same thing now to our kids. Im all alone here in this big ocean and trying to navigate to land. Which way is up? Down left or right? I doing my best and trying to do this where one day I can look back and say I did it the best I could. That why I reached out for help here. All of my actions in this will have conciquences. You have to understand that Im fighting a few wars on a few fronts. EX wife, kids, the divorce process, and work hasnt stopped its far share of stress.


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## turnera

I'm sorry, but when I see kids going through this kind of turmoil - which is shaping the kind of adult they will be - for life - I get way out of line. YOU have the ability to start showing the kids that you have their back in different ways. Let them see you talking to their teachers, or their grandparents, or your wife's and John's friends, or a counselor (please!), or anyone who can take steps to make them NOT be in the middle. Let them see you doing something instead of just saying 'oh, it will get taken care of, all in good time.'

These weeks, months, are a lifetime for your kids and it's molding how they do or don't trust people, it's teaching them how to lie, it's parentifying them (horrible thing), it's making them feel life is not safe, and they can't trust the most important person in their world, and that they have to become either a doormat or User, nothing in between. And it looks from here like you are doing nothing to protect them, so imagine what it looks like from THEIR perspective? You won't even get them to a counselor, which they obviously need.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> With 2 of the local family counselors that I have spoke with so far they seemed to think that Both parents need to be on board.


But did you push it? Did you ask your lawyer how to make it happen? Did you talk to the school to ask them to help you get it?

No, you asked two people, who said it might be hard, and you quit.



> The short term it would be hell for me.


Wow.


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## iBolt

ronin 

I can understand. Turnera's concerns. I am afraid to say that I think you've become so used to this mess that I am not sure you are adequately assessing the overall risk your kids are facing. As a practical - couldyou have an interim injunction or court order in place? Do you guys in the US have a UK equivalent of children's services that you can express your concerns to? Unfortunately, time is not your friend here and it is not on your children's side. Another practical is to talk talk talk and then talk some more with your children. You should do all you can to disabuse their precious minds. Express love, safety and security for them.

I strongly urge you to please get some govt agency involved here. Express your concerns to them. They have to or at least be seen to do something in safeguarding your kids. LET THEM HAVE A ROLE IN ASSESSING THE RISK YOUR KIDS ARE FACING. If they say there isn't any, then status quo continues. If they see otherwise, you'll stand a better chance in court.

I trust you are doing all you can and it's great you're seeking advice. I know it is hard being in this situation. I have been there. My ex had serious mental health issues and I was often treated like I was the the one with a problem. Hang in there bud.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> But did you push it? Did you ask your lawyer how to make it happen? Did you talk to the school to ask them to help you get it?
> 
> No, you asked two people, who said it might be hard, and you quit.
> 
> Wow.


The school as far as both of their teachers know. Also the school principal and the school counselor know the whole story. I speak with both of their teachers once a week by phone. I can see that your a huge advocate of counseling. Some people are. I dont need to speak with anyone to get my children into counselling. I can do that I my own. You are of the opinion that its like a cold. Take them to the Dr, get meds and they are better. Doesnt happen like that. Counseling will most likely take 6-8 months for them to just break through the ice and get them talking. Its a very long slow process that takes some time for the benefits to be realized. I think your right that getting them in their now will start that process. I more concerned about how the kids, espically my daughter will react. They wont take it well as my ex has already told them it means their crazy. My daughter thinks its a nut house. Stright jackets and padded cells. Now were did she get that info from? ME"? No she got that nonsence from my ex. Perhaps I should just do it even if it means my daughters relashionship with me will be bad for a while. Perhaps it will push my daughter away. My ex will use the therapy to push my kids away from me. Thats the part that you just cant see right now. I agree with you that they would benfit but to which end? Im glad your an advocate for my kids and I read everything you say. Im just not convinced yet. Maybe its just me being stupid.


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## A Bit Much

Family counseling is just that FAMILY. This means you and your kids would all be going, regardless if your wife is on board or not. Make the appointment and make it for the 3 of you. You're not an island Ronin. These places are there to help people just like you and have dealt with what you are going through. If you send just your daughter to counseling then yes I could see how put off by that the girl would be... but you know what? 

YOU ARE THE PARENT AND ADULT. You are responsible as much as your wayward wife for how or what ends up happening in your kids lives. If you sit there and whine and moan versus take action that could help the 3 of you, you are aiding and abedding your wife and her ill behavior. Is that what you want? I don't think so. 

Dupage county has EXCELLENT counseling resources. Go a bit outside of your territory, it's ok to do that. Get help for all of you. If your wife isn't on board, then so be it... contact your childrens social workers at their school and ask that they speak to your kids during school. You owe them this much. They're hurting too Ronin.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> The school as far as both of their teachers know. Also the school principal and the school counselor know the whole story. I speak with both of their teachers once a week by phone. I can see that your a huge advocate of counseling. Some people are. I dont need to speak with anyone to get my children into counselling. I can do that I my own. You are of the opinion that its like a cold. Take them to the Dr, get meds and they are better. Doesnt happen like that. Counseling will most likely take 6-8 months for them to just break through the ice and get them talking. Its a very long slow process that takes some time for the benefits to be realized. I think your right that getting them in their now will start that process. I more concerned about how the kids, espically my daughter will react. They wont take it well as my ex has already told them it means their crazy. My daughter thinks its a nut house. Stright jackets and padded cells. Now were did she get that info from? ME"? No she got that nonsence from my ex. Perhaps I should just do it even if it means my daughters relashionship with me will be bad for a while. Perhaps it will push my daughter away. My ex will use the therapy to push my kids away from me. Thats the part that you just cant see right now. I agree with you that they would benfit but to which end? Im glad your an advocate for my kids and I read everything you say. Im just not convinced yet. Maybe its just me being stupid.


I think you shouldn't judge the outcome of the situation until you actually attempt it. Speculation is going to keep you from doing anything.

Why haven't the schools social workers been in contact with you? Why aren't they meeting with the kids during the day while at school?


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## A Bit Much

I don't understand. You're so resistant to getting outside help for your kids, yet you come here for the same thing. It's okay for you, but not for them? I don't see the logic in that. They need help as much if not more than you do.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> Doesnt happen like that. Counseling will most likely take 6-8 months for them to just break through the ice and get them talking.


And...if you wait 3 more months to start it, those 6-8 months would be 3 more months LATER that they would be feeling better. 

And no, it DOESN'T take 6 to 8 months to break through ice. Child psychologists are experts at getting children to feel safe, glad that they came, and enjoy the experience. 

I just don't understand how a parent can choose to prolong a child's pain just so they personally don't suffer.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> They wont take it well as my ex has already told them it means their crazy. My daughter thinks its a nut house. Stright jackets and padded cells. Now were did she get that info from? ME"? No she got that nonsence from my ex.


What makes you think your daughter won't believe what YOU say just as much as what her mom says? If YOU tell her what it's like and why it's there and how much it helps, she will hear you. But you're not doing that. You're just sitting back and watching your kids get used and twisted and sad.

If nothing else, your kids need to see you ACT.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> I don't understand. You're so resistant to getting outside help for your kids, yet you come here for the same thing. It's okay for you, but not for them? I don't see the logic in that. They need help as much if not more than you do.


You make a great point. I will get that going asap. I think I will call the school and ask the school counsellor for a referal.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> You make a great point. I will get that going asap. I think I will call the school and ask the school counsellor for a referal.


I wouldn't suggest something to you that I didn't do myself Ronin. My son had a harder time dealing with my divorce than my daughter did. He was about 8 or 9 when things really hit the fan so to speak. His school social worker was a great great help to me and him and we kept him talking to a social worker (first was a female, then a male in middle school) all the way to high school. After his sophmore year in high school, he was in a pretty good place and didn't need to have the social worker check on him as often... I think at the worst point he was seeing them weekly.

Please don't wait on this. The chaos at home right now is taking its toll even if they don't say much about it. Watch their grades, keep an eye on them when at home... taking this action will keep them from withdrawing and they will feel OK about talking about how they feel with you, without bursting into tears or becoming super emotional.


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## turnera

ronin, thank you for doing that. You will all benefit. Even your wife, even if she doesn't go with you guys.


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## cmf

*Re: My story is sad but tru, e*

Ronin- I know you are doing the best you can right now.

My stbxh was completely opposed to therapy too. I took them anyway and he was free to participate how he wanted. He basically has called the therapist to say I was a liar. That's it so far.

The way I handled it ( 2 years ago) was through the lawyers. My lawyer explained the damage it was doing to the kids when they had to be around the affair partner and then suggested if he couldn't understand why that was, maybe he needed to be more active in the therapy process. His lawyer agreed and he didn't want to look bad( he is father of the year too). His fog got a big blast of reality after that when the therapist didn't agree with what he was doing. His own lawyer told him he couldn't continue to have the kids in the home he shared with affair partner even for an hour and then encouraged him to move out in case it went to court. This time he hasn't even tried to have her around them( yet). He is now avoiding visiting with the kids and participating in therapy. His choice, he still wants the fantasy right now. She is not going to want to look bad in front of the lawyers and will probably agree to not take them over there anymore, same for him being in your home.

Your daughter might be so relived to hear from another adult that it is ok to feel the way she is feeling. She is probably so confused about what her mother is doing and saying and feels guilty for not wanting to disagree with her mother.

Just my thoughts on it. I do support therapy and know that it does not take months. 2 years ago when my kids went through this they saw a therapist for about 8-10 sessions and then she felt that they had a good handle on things.


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## iBolt

Ronin 

Consider that those of us on here who are encouraging you, perhaps to a fault, to ve your kids help now are mostly speaking from experience. I for one understand your anxiety and how the ex will go crazy again thus destroying any hope of some reasonable post divorce relationship . Your kids must be your priority. Their short term welfare should not be sacrificed on the altar of long term whatever with your wife - regardless of the difficulties along the way. 

Pardon my frustration at your case (not at you). I have seen faaaar too many men (mostly) refuse to struggle for their children's welfare out of fear of what their ex would do or what a judge would decide later on. My experience has been that where proven, consistent and reasonable efforts have been made to safeguard children's welfare, this goes down well with most judges. It shows that this parent cares and is reasonable. As a man, you need as much evidence in your support - both for a future court case and more importantly for your kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

I recieved a text from the ex at 1am. She said that she will be leaving for the weekend at 2:30 right from work and that she wont be back untill monday morning. She knows that I work till 9 pm on fridays. Also the text said to make sure I take the dog out and to feed it. Here we go again with the poor dog. So this morning I called the kids on the way to work. They both seemed fine and my wife was telling my son to tell me something. He just handed my ex the phone. Good hes finally getting it. I tried to tell the kids that me and their mother wont talk to each other through the kids. So now they just put her on the phone. I told her that I would be there in the morning as its my daughters birthday. She didnt like that but I dont care its her birthday and i want to make her breakfast. I also reminded her of a conversation that we had 2 months about the dog. She wanted the dog so I told her that if she is going away for the weekend, then she need to figure out the dog thing. She just said that i can F__k myself and that if it dies than its my problem. then she hung up. So I think it might be time to either take the dog or look for a better home. It really isnt the poor dog fault.


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## A Bit Much

Find a new home for the dog if neither of you have time to care for it. Don't wait for her to make the decision on it, just do it.


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## turnera

Yep.


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## ronin5573

She just can't let go of her control even though she wants to let me go
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> She just can't let go of her control even though she wants to let me go
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Theres no doubt she wants to steer the ship. No doubt at all. She's looking out for her own interests is all. You need to do the same.

What kind of dog is it?


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Theres no doubt she wants to steer the ship. No doubt at all. She's looking out for her own interests is all. You need to do the same.
> 
> What kind of dog is it?


She is more then welcome to steer any ship she wants. So long as I'm in a different boat. LOL 

Dog is a mutt part poodle part peikineese. But truth be told is a great dog and super smart. I honestly did offer to take the dog. Now she wants to abondone it because it doesnt fit within her new lifestyle. So how long before the kids also dont fit into that lifestyle ???


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> She is more then welcome to steer any ship she wants. So long as I'm in a different boat. LOL
> 
> Dog is a mutt part poodle part peikineese. But truth be told is a great dog and super smart. I honestly did offer to take the dog. Now she wants to abondone it because it doesnt fit within her new lifestyle. So how long before the kids also dont fit into that lifestyle ???


Cute dog!!

If you want to keep the dog, then keep it and care for it yourself. She's a non factor. The kids already don't fit into her lifestyle.... she's leaving them to lay up with another man for days. That's not what a responsible mom does.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Cute dog!!
> 
> If you want to keep the dog, then keep it and care for it yourself. She's a non factor. The kids already don't fit into her lifestyle.... she's leaving them to lay up with another man for days. That's not what a responsible mom does.


In my personal assestment its nothing short of horrific. A custody fight should be done here even though my chances are less then 3%. They would be better off with me. being a male in illinois has its far share of disadvantages as far as that goes.


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## A Bit Much

Chances may be low, but do it anyway if you have to. 

Personally, I think joint custody will be fine. She just wants YOU out of her way physically. She wants to come and go as she pleases without you there reminding her of her unfinished business. You're in her way right now. Once the divorce is final, things will start to get better. You'll each be free of torment from one another.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> She just can't let go of her control even though she wants to let me go


So what?

WHAT control?

She only has control if you GIVE it to her.


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## warlock07

I am so pissed off right now. I am worried about the kids. How can she make them sleep on OM's couch when she goes into the OM's bedroom.


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## turnera

warlock07 said:


> I am so pissed off right now. I am worried about the kids. How can she make them sleep on OM's couch when she goes into the OM's bedroom.


 When my dad left, I was 12, he still showed up for our weekly or monthly visits. So I was lucky! Unfortunately, it was usually to bring me over to his current girlfriend's house, so I could watch her kids while they went into the bedroom. Probably why I have such a horrific sexual aversion. Remember it like it was yesterday, 40 years later.


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## ronin5573

It's just all bad. Today I'm really stressed. The things that she are doing are just so horrible I can't even imagine. Now she also expects everything in the divorce. I'm fairly certain that a quick and equitable divorcd isn't going to happen. I blame myself for trying to be kind. I think it's time to really fight this out. I really didn't want things to go that way but I have to fight for me and my kids. She was real upset that I was here today as its my daughters 11th birthday. Last night she acted like a raving nut job, but it least the kids were in bed and didn't have to witness it. Either way im still Happy that i was here for her 11th. She only gets one and though it wasnt the family burthday she wanted, its still better then nothing. I'm debating dropIng my current lawyer and hiring a pitbull attorney. At this point I think settling things is out and it's going to go all the way to trial. Maybe time to give that a week then decide
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> I am so pissed off right now. I am worried about the kids. How can she make them sleep on OM's couch when she goes into the OM's bedroom.


Because she really truly is a bad mother and person. This is selfishness on a whole new level. It's completely unforgettable and unforgivable
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> When my dad left, I was 12, he still showed up for our weekly or monthly visits. So I was lucky! Unfortunately, it was usually to bring me over to his current girlfriend's house, so I could watch her kids while they went into the bedroom. Probably why I have such a horrific sexual aversion. Remember it like it was yesterday, 40 years later.


This is my biggest fear now. I'm really sorry that you had to experience that, unfortunately I think my kids will now have the future emotional issues because of this. Unspeakable
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> This is my biggest fear now. I'm really sorry that you had to experience that, unfortunately I think my kids will now have the future emotional issues because of this. Unspeakable


Exactly why they MUST be in therapy.

If I had even gotten a handful of visits to a therapist as a child, my entire life would have been different. Instead, it devolved into a series of self-destructive acts and decisions because my dad taught me to hate myself.


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## turnera

If a pitbull lawyer can get better protection for your children, there is NO amount of money I would not pay. I'd borrow money and have to pay it off for the rest of my life if I had to, to protect them.


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## A Bit Much

Stressed? On a happy day?? It's your daughters birthday. What are you stressing over?


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## warlock07

Go for a pit bull. You can give her more if you want to be fair later on. Was she like this before the affair ?


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> Go for a pit bull. You can give her more if you want to be fair later on. Was she like this before the affair ?


Well we spoke for a while this morning after the kids got on the bus. I told her that what she wants in the divorce is nothing but absurd. I also told here that it isnt going to end quickly. In the end we will most likley end up with crap, but Im willing to fight this out to the bitter end. She came back after speaking with John. So she basically switched everything around from what we spoke of and I think we may have come to an agreement. Its totally different from what we had origionally discussed but still fair. Biggest difference is shes planning on her and the kids moving in with John or liveing by him. I dont think she is positive about that yet. So she does want to take the kids to indiana. This is a plan that I have know about for a month or so. The kids have already told me this, I just didnt want to say anything untill it all came out. Ive already looking into the Indiana school system where they would attent school and its way better then where they go now. So educationally wise the kids would benefit. I just dont know aobut the whole 50 miles away thing. So I would keep the house and she would get a cash settlement upfront. Also for that she would have to waive her right to maintiance or alamony. So i called my lawyer and had him make the corrections. Then she called 1 hour later and said she was leaving work and going out to Indiana. She was crying pretty hard. I wouldnt console her. She had plans tonight to take my daughter to cheerleading but I guess whatever she has going on is more important. Im off all day today at work so I will take them out to dinner for her birthday and then take her to cheerleading. I think my stbx is now starting to realize that I really am done. I honestly think that up to now she thought all she had to do was snap and I would come running back. So she prolly feels that shes working without a net. She is. We will have to see how it all rolls out. Any thoughts?


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## turnera

The only thought I have is DO NOT THINK you can maintain a relationship with your kids, living 50 miles away.

You just won't. It will last a few weeks, months, and then you'll find yourself making excuses for not going out there, and she will stop offering to bring them over here, and in six months, you'll be seeing your kids once a month.

IIWY, the ONLY thing I would stand firm on is that the kids cannot move there. I don't care about the school system. Kids come out just fine from _any_ school, if they have consistent, one-on-one, loving and attentive time with their dad.


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> I am so pissed off right now. I am worried about the kids. How can she make them sleep on OM's couch when she goes into the OM's bedroom.


The thought of it haunts me. I mean that, it actually wakes me up in the middle of the night. My ex doenst realize the long term effects that will have on the kids. One day she will answer to the kids for what she has put them through


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## Sbrown

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! DO NOT let her take your kids to a different state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If she does YOU HAVE NO CONTROL! No matter how close they are if they are in a different state you have NO POWER!!! She could take those kids and move across the country and there would be nothing you can do!!!!! Make certain your lawyer files an injunction RIGHT NOW that says she can not take the kids out of state without your permission! DO THIS NOW!!!!!! 

Find a lawyer that ONLY represents men in D cases! Trust me, they can work magic! Two guys I work with got FULL custody using lawyers that only represent men.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> The thought of it haunts me. I mean that, it actually wakes me up in the middle of the night. My ex doenst realize the long term effects that will have on the kids. One day she will answer to the kids for what she has put them through


 And yet you're willing to allow her to move the kids there, where they will likely be raised 75% of the time.


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## turnera

I thought you were switching to a pitbull? 

Why are you discussing things with HER instead of your pitbull lawyer?! 

*slaps head*


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> The only thought I have is DO NOT THINK you can maintain a relationship with your kids, living 50 miles away.
> 
> You just won't. It will last a few weeks, months, and then you'll find yourself making excuses for not going out there, and she will stop offering to bring them over here, and in six months, you'll be seeing your kids once a month.


I refuse to think thats true. I spoke with my laywer about her relocating 6 weeks ago. Truth is that she would win that in court. Sounds bad but its true. facts are facts. She would get a job there and say its the greatest job for her and the kids in the whole wide world. Another fact is the schools are better. Not kinda sorta but way better if you believe state and national test results. So I couldnt stop it even if I tried.. Remember Illinois and im the male.


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## A Bit Much

> Any thoughts?


Yeah. John told her he couldn't put her and the kids up at his house. They already flop on the couch, he doesn't have the space. That's what the crying jaunt was about most likely... she has no where to really go, UNLESS she leaves the kids with YOU full time and moves on her own.

You know, this affair stuff is all fun and games until it gets exposed. Then it all becomes real. John doesn't love her, or care for her like she thinks. He couldn't. She's a hot mess of a woman who has skipped out on her marriage for no real good reason. You aren't beating her ass, you aren't cheating on her, you're a great father and helpful with the children. 

She has nothing to stand on. Emotionally she's unstable... that's not hot. I'm sure he's really not interested in any of her drama either but will play along because she's sleeping with him. How long will that go on? Who knows... but that's not your problem. John isn't your problem either. He signed up for this circus.


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## Sbrown

ronin5573 said:


> i refuse to think thats true. I spoke with my laywer about her relocating 6 weeks ago. Truth is that she would win that in court. Sounds bad but its true. Facts are facts. She would get a job there and say its the greatest job for her and the kids in the whole wide world. Another fact is the schools are better. Not kinda sorta but way better if you believe state and national test results. So i couldnt stop it even if i tried.. Remember illinois and im the male.


you need a new lawyer asap!!!!


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> I thought you were switching to a pitbull?
> 
> Why are you discussing things with HER instead of your pitbull lawyer?!
> 
> *slaps head*


Simple the most financially feasable way to end it is with a settlement agreement. My idiot get 500 an hour. Its time to see if we can resolve it or I need to make plans for it to get ugly.


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## ronin5573

Sbrown said:


> you need a new lawyer asap!!!!


need a laywer????? im 8000 into a 10000 retainer now


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## turnera

A Bit Much said:


> Yeah. John told her he couldn't put her and the kids up at his house. They already flop on the couch, he doesn't have the space. That's what the crying jaunt was about


Yep.

She had to drop everything, even her daughter's birthday party, to rush over there and seduce him and offer him nasty stuff to get him wrapped around her finger again.

And for God's sake, fire that lawyer.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> need a laywer????? im 8000 into a 10000 retainer now


 Yep. Cos that money is worth more than being in your children's lives on a daily basis.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I refuse to think thats true. I spoke with my laywer about her relocating 6 weeks ago. Truth is that she would win that in court. Sounds bad but its true. facts are facts. She would get a job there and say its the greatest job for her and the kids in the whole wide world. Another fact is the schools are better. Not kinda sorta but way better if you believe state and national test results. So I couldnt stop it even if I tried.. Remember Illinois and im the male.


She's not moving there. She's talking about it, but unless John shows up with a UHaul, she can go kick rocks with that one.


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## A Bit Much

Custody can't be worked out until you go to the first hearing with your joint parenting agreement in place. What has your attorney drawn up? What has hers?


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## iBolt

ronin5573 said:


> I refuse to think thats true. I spoke with my laywer about her relocating 6 weeks ago. Truth is that she would win that in court. Sounds bad but its true. facts are facts. She would get a job there and say its the greatest job for her and the kids in the whole wide world. Another fact is the schools are better. Not kinda sorta but way better if you believe state and national test results. So I couldnt stop it even if I tried.. Remember Illinois and im the male.


Ronin

If you ever end up in court over custody or financial matters, I hope you don't end up with a judge like you. You will definitely lose.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Yep.
> 
> She had to drop everything, even her daughter's birthday party, to rush over there and seduce him and offer him nasty stuff to get him wrapped around her finger again.
> 
> And for God's sake, fire that lawyer.


Yea I suspect you could be right about that john thing. I really dont know. I did tell her that If she is going to jump into a relashionship that my kids have to be a witness too then I want to meet him face to face. She was very reluctant to it but I told her it isnt negociable. He has agreed to it. I just want to see what kind of guy he is forget about even whats happened. Im not worried about a physical confrentation.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Custody can't be worked out until you go to the first hearing with your joint parenting agreement in place. What has your attorney drawn up? What has hers?


Now that her plans are togo indiana that plan will change.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Yea I suspect you could be right about that john thing. I really dont know. I did tell her that If she is going to jump into a relashionship that my kids have to be a witness too then *I want to meet him face to face*. She was very reluctant to it but I told her it isnt negociable. He has agreed to it. I just want to see what kind of guy he is forget about even whats happened. Im not worried about a physical confrentation.


WHY?

He's a dooshbag of epic proportions. His involvement in your life should be enough evidence of that, and I can't see what meeting him would do other than upset you and irritate her even further.

He's an outsider. He's a third party nonfactor in your marriage or whats left of it. Why would you give him the idea that HE has ANY importance??? Bad chess move Ronin.


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## A Bit Much

And another thing...

Playing all nicey nice with the other man makes you look weak to him (and weaker to her for that matter). You want respect? You won't get it that way.


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## PM1

With all due respect to any lawyers here, keep in mind that what they say is an educated opinion, not fact. Your lawyer sounds like a wuss. Just like with a medical issue warranting a second opinion, I'd look for one on this. You've gotten some great advice to look for someone who specializes in representing men in a divorce. Until things are equal, that sounds like the only way to go.

Just out of curiosity, could you give a bit more money away and get controlling custody or majority of custody? Not sure how that works but she seems more interested in playing around and cash than being a mom, maybe you can take advantage of that and get the kids?

Good luck and keep fighting. You are doing this for them in the end. I hope they understand that sooner than later.


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## ronin5573

PM1 said:


> With all due respect to any lawyers here, keep in mind that what they say is an educated opinion, not fact. Your lawyer sounds like a wuss. Just like with a medical issue warranting a second opinion, I'd look for one on this. You've gotten some great advice to look for someone who specializes in representing men in a divorce. Until things are equal, that sounds like the only way to go.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, could you give a bit more money away and get controlling custody or majority of custody? Not sure how that works but she seems more interested in playing around and cash than being a mom, maybe you can take advantage of that and get the kids?
> 
> Good luck and keep fighting. You are doing this for them in the end. I hope they understand that sooner than later.


I can try to do whatever. Illinois is fair and equatable state. That doesn't mean 50/50. She did leave her job to raise the kids for 4 years. I make big time more then she does . She will do financially well no matter what. Illinois again is no fault . Her or my wrong doing dosent matter. They split it up and by states standards . With how big the income difference is its not good for me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> WHY?
> 
> He's a dooshbag of epic proportions. His involvement in your life should be enough evidence of that, and I can't see what meeting him would do other than upset you and irritate her even further.
> 
> He's an outsider. He's a third party nonfactor in your marriage or whats left of it. Why would you give him the idea that HE has ANY importance??? Bad chess move Ronin.


Main reason why is I want to meet the guy my kids spend time with. But your right he really is a no factor. I'm going to scrap that idea
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> I make big time more then she does.


Great! Then it will be no issue to fire this loser lawyer and hire the one who KNOWS how to protect men in divorce cases.

fwiw, I'm an editor/writer. When I was growing up, I looked at every book or magazine and just assumed it was PERFECT. After all, it was a professional product, right?

Forty years later, in the business, it continues to shock me that the people responsible for these 'perfect' products are...just people. Just people who chose to pursue a career, for whatever reason.

Just as my boss is a MUCH better editor than I am who continues to amaze me with how much I don't catch that she does, there are lawyers out there who just passed the bar cos they wanted to make money and take the easy way out, every time - quickest path to the paycheck. Then there are those who are whirlwinds, powerhouses, firebrands, who take the industry by storm and DON'T LET GO until they get their client what he wants and deserves.

Find one of those.


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## yolanda_fan

ronin5573 said:


> I can try to do whatever. Illinois is fair and equatable state. That doesn't mean 50/50. She did leave her job to raise the kids for 4 years. I make big time more then she does . She will do financially well no matter what. Illinois again is no fault . Her or my wrong doing dosent matter. They split it up and by states standards . With how big the income difference is its not good for me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ronin, I read through this thread for the first time yesterday, and I have to commend you for handling such a difficult situation with grace, patience, and intelligence. You seem like a wonderful husband, and I'm sorry your wife is putting you through all of this. 

It's good to see a father being invested in the well-being of his children. Too often, fathers divorce their kids when their marriages dissolve. 

I can't imagine how I'd feel and act if I were going through this--espically knowing how much it was affecting my children. But you're dealing with this much _better _than can be expected. I hope you have the support from your family and friends during this tough time.


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## jh52

Hi Ronin:

I read on some threads that if your stbxw can take the kids to Indiana (if that is what happens) and you agree -- then if she breaks up with John and she meets a guy from Cailfornia, China, etc -- that she will be able to also take the kids and you won't be able to stop it.

Just check this out with your lawyer ....

Good luck !!


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Hi Ronin:
> 
> I read on some threads that if your stbxw can take the kids to Indiana (if that is what happens) and you agree -- then if she breaks up with John and she meets a guy from Cailfornia, China, etc -- that she will be able to also take the kids and you won't be able to stop it.
> 
> Just check this out with your lawyer ....
> 
> Good luck !!


True only if she is awared sole custody. Not if its joint. So far joint custody has never been an issue. I Dont think she is planning on moving in with her BF. I think her plans are to purchase a condo. She told the kids this morning by phone what her plans were. Kids didnt take it well but I offered again that they could stay with me. I think she going to take the deal.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Great! Then it will be no issue to fire this loser lawyer and hire the one who KNOWS how to protect men in divorce cases.
> 
> fwiw, I'm an editor/writer. When I was growing up, I looked at every book or magazine and just assumed it was PERFECT. After all, it was a professional product, right?
> 
> Forty years later, in the business, it continues to shock me that the people responsible for these 'perfect' products are...just people. Just people who chose to pursue a career, for whatever reason.
> 
> Just as my boss is a MUCH better editor than I am who continues to amaze me with how much I don't catch that she does, there are lawyers out there who just passed the bar cos they wanted to make money and take the easy way out, every time - quickest path to the paycheck. Then there are those who are whirlwinds, powerhouses, firebrands, who take the industry by storm and DON'T LET GO until they get their client what he wants and deserves.
> 
> Find one of those.


I agree with much of what you say. I think I look at things a little different. The lawyer is there to guide me legally. He isnt there is make decisions for me and what my future plans are. The deal is up to me and what I want to do and what Im willing to give up. Sure if it comes down to a knock down drag out then I will make some changes to legal representation and go from there. turnera you appear to be a fighter. Nothing wrong with that but I look at the agreement as a business decision period. The kids agreement is also a seperate issue. Sure its fun to fight every last detail out to the bitter end. I might even wind up with more plates and knifes and forks. But at what cost? Another 25-30 grand is legal and court costs? Its really is a simple matmatical equasion to me. When this kind of thing happens to someone such as myself the normal reaction is to get angry and want to hurt that person anyway that can be done which is usually the divorce settlement. But the reality of it all is in the end both end up with less. I am trying to think long term here not today.


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## turnera

ronin5573 said:


> True only if she is awared sole custody. Not if its joint. So far joint custody has never been an issue. I Dont think she is planning on moving in with her BF. I think her plans are to purchase a condo. She told the kids this morning by phone what her plans were. Kids didnt take it well but I offered again that they could stay with me. I think she going to take the deal.


 The deal includes your kids moving to Indiana? Will you be moving, too?


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> The deal includes your kids moving to Indiana? Will you be moving, too?


Nope im not there is nothing but corn in that state. However She will agree to meet me half way for pick up and drop offs.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> True only if she is awared sole custody. Not if its joint. So far joint custody has never been an issue. I Dont think she is planning on moving in with her BF. I think her plans are to purchase a condo. She told the kids this morning by phone what her plans were. Kids didnt take it well but I offered again that they could stay with me. I think she going to take the deal.


Well that confirms the no move in with John theory doesn't it? And it's great she won't be after the house. She should take this deal and do joint custody and the two of you can work out holidays and pick up and drop offs in the joint parenting agreement.

IMO they should stay with you full time, just for the sake of not uprooting them and changing schools and making new friends etc, but I doubt she'll go for that. You can take the kids every Friday to Sunday. It's just about half the week. Then ask for them for more days during the week in summer and holiday breaks. It also would be a good idea that you ask to claim them as dependants every even year so that for tax time in 2013 you can claim benefits for this whole year. Share them on holidays... alternate them if possible. When I went through this with my ex, I had Thanksgiving and Christmas no matter what. If he wanted to see the kids then he would have to work that out with me in advance and we'd split the day up.

It all sounds business like because it is. Ideally you wouldn't have to suffer through this at all and neither would the children, but your STXW put it all in motion.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Well that confirms the no move in with John theory doesn't it? And it's great she won't be after the house. She should take this deal and do joint custody and the two of you can work out holidays and pick up and drop offs in the joint parenting agreement.
> 
> IMO they should stay with you full time, just for the sake of not uprooting them and changing schools and making new friends etc, but I doubt she'll go for that. You can take the kids every Friday to Sunday. It's just about half the week. Then ask for them for more days during the week in summer and holiday breaks. It also would be a good idea that you ask to claim them as dependants every even year so that for tax time in 2013 you can claim benefits for this whole year. Share them on holidays... alternate them if possible. When I went through this with my ex, I had Thanksgiving and Christmas no matter what. If he wanted to see the kids then he would have to work that out with me in advance and we'd split the day up.
> 
> It all sounds business like because it is. Ideally you wouldn't have to suffer through this at all and neither would the children, but your STXW put it all in motion.


Im pretty sure John is not onboard of taking on My ex and 2 more kids,(he has 3 of his own). We have the visitation schedule and holiday schedule figure out. Then it alternates the next year. I think its fair. Also we agreed that we could each claim 1 kid as a dependant on income tax


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## aug

ronin5573 said:


> I agree with much of what you say. I think I look at things a little different. *The lawyer is there to guide me legally.* He isnt there is make decisions for me and what my future plans are. The deal is up to me and what I want to do and what Im willing to give up. *Sure if it comes down to a knock down drag out then I will make some changes to legal representation and go from there. * turnera you appear to be a fighter. Nothing wrong with that but I look at the agreement as a business decision period. The kids agreement is also a seperate issue. Sure its fun to fight every last detail out to the bitter end. I might even wind up with more plates and knifes and forks. But at what cost? Another 25-30 grand is legal and court costs? Its really is a simple matmatical equasion to me. When this kind of thing happens to someone such as myself the normal reaction is to get angry and want to hurt that person anyway that can be done which is usually the divorce settlement. But the reality of it all is in the end both end up with less. I am trying to think long term here not today.



He cant guide you if he himself is too scared or inexperienced to go there.

If there needs to be a "knock down drag out", your present lawyer may have cut part of your leg from under you, and place your new lawyer in a crippled position.


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## warlock07

ronin5573 said:


> Well we spoke for a while this morning after the kids got on the bus. I told her that what she wants in the divorce is nothing but absurd. I also told here that it isnt going to end quickly. In the end we will most likley end up with crap, but Im willing to fight this out to the bitter end. She came back after speaking with John. So she basically switched everything around from what we spoke of and I think we may have come to an agreement. Its totally different from what we had origionally discussed but still fair. Biggest difference is shes planning on her and the kids moving in with John or liveing by him. I dont think she is positive about that yet. So she does want to take the kids to indiana. This is a plan that I have know about for a month or so. The kids have already told me this, I just didnt want to say anything untill it all came out. Ive already looking into the Indiana school system where they would attent school and its way better then where they go now. So educationally wise the kids would benefit. I just dont know aobut the whole 50 miles away thing. So I would keep the house and she would get a cash settlement upfront. Also for that she would have to waive her right to maintiance or alamony. So i called my lawyer and had him make the corrections. Then she called 1 hour later and said she was leaving work and going out to Indiana. She was crying pretty hard. I wouldnt console her. She had plans tonight to take my daughter to cheerleading but I guess whatever she has going on is more important. Im off all day today at work so I will take them out to dinner for her birthday and then take her to cheerleading. I think my stbx is now starting to realize that I really am done. I honestly think that up to now she thought all she had to do was snap and I would come running back. So she prolly feels that shes working without a net. She is. We will have to see how it all rolls out. Any thoughts?


So you are OK with John replacing you as the dad ? Even she is surprised about it, I think!! And is she a good mother to have kids with her full time ? The last few months proved otherwise. Are you out of your mind ?



> Then she called 1 hour later and said she was leaving work and going out to Indiana. She was crying pretty hard


Why is she crying ?


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> So you are OK with John replacing you as the dad ? Even she is surprised about it, I think!!


John couldnt replace me in any fashinon .... ever. He is my ex's BF and nothign else. Hes nothing to me now and forever.

Why was she crying.. I dont honestly know. Maybe reality is sitting in. Maybe things arent that great with lover boy as she suspected. She didnt attempt a resoultion in any way so who knows .


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## warlock07

What if she moves in with him ?


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## ronin5573

aug said:


> He cant guide you if he himself is too scared or inexperienced to go there.
> 
> If there needs to be a "knock down drag out", your present lawyer may have cut part of your leg from under you, and place your new lawyer in a crippled position.


I disagree. You make it seem that I have employed a idiot. Hes more then qualified to handle this. 20 years of experiance.


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> What if she moves in with him ?


I thinks thats her ultimate goal.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I disagree. You make it seem that I have employed a idiot. Hes more then qualified to handle this. 20 years of experiance.


Overall you're getting what you want so I wouldn't change anything. She's not being overly unreasonable, especially now with the latest developments regarding her relocating etc.


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## anchorwatch

Ron, you were right. She was too anxious and didn't have the patience to engage in a long and drawn out fight. The end to this hell you've been living is finally in sight. The next step will bring a new beginning to your life. Surely during shared parenting she will still be a thorn in your side, but that's nothing compared to what you've been able to handle. You have a strong family background and will convey that to your children.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Ron, you were right. She was too anxious and didn't have the patience to engage in a long and drawn out fight. The end to this hell you've been living is finally in sight. The next step will bring a new beginning to your life. Surely during shared parenting she will still be a thorn in your side, but that's nothing compared to what you've been able to handle. You have a strong family background and will convey that to your children.


Thanks for your words. And thanks for all of your advise over the last few months. Living the way I have has been a struggle that I think you realize. Some here don't realize the life I've had compared to the life I've been living since June . Closure has a value, in whatever form that is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> John couldnt replace me in any fashinon .... ever. He is my ex's BF and nothign else. Hes nothing to me now and forever.
> 
> Why was she crying.. I dont honestly know. Maybe reality is sitting in. Maybe things arent that great with lover boy as she suspected. She didnt attempt a resoultion in any way so who knows .


and it's best know one tells you what she is thinking -- because only your stbxw knows what she was/is thinking and why she was crying.


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## aug

ronin5573 said:


> I disagree. You make it seem that I have employed a idiot. Hes more then qualified to handle this. 20 years of experiance.


ok then. You caught me with your statement:


> Sure if it comes down to a knock down drag out* then I will make some changes to legal representation *and go from there.


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> What if she moves in with him ?


There are a million what if questions. In the not so distant future we will be legally divorced. Then what. Who will she live with where will she go? I dont have answers to any of those questions now. I have a hunch that John is a temporary thing. The affar started out bad and all the odds are against them, in spite of how much charm she has prolly turned on for him. The kids were are and will always be a worrie. I believe that they dont really fit into her new found 18year old lifestyle. I think she wants them for 2 real reasons. One is $$$$$$$. The other is I dont think she could live wite how others, her family etc would treat her is she abondoned the kids. But if she has that part figured out then I think she would leave them with me. Remember for the last few years she feels that she has done it all. I did nothign for her the kids the house or anything. She hasnt really been on her own yet. Right now I have the kids Half the time, I pay all of the household bills. She thinks its all great really. Bills paid free babysitter and she is free to come and go as she pleases. But that wont really be her future when things come to an end, espically if she goes to Indiana. Like I have said many times, Im in this thing alone and trying to make the best decisions for me and the kids.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> Well that confirms the no move in with John theory doesn't it? And it's great she won't be after the house. She should take this deal and do joint custody and the two of you can work out holidays and pick up and drop offs in the joint parenting agreement.
> 
> IMO they should stay with you full time, just for the sake of not uprooting them and changing schools and making new friends etc, but I doubt she'll go for that. You can take the kids every Friday to Sunday. It's just about half the week. Then ask for them for more days during the week in summer and holiday breaks. It also would be a good idea that you ask to claim them as dependants every even year so that for tax time in 2013 you can claim benefits for this whole year. Share them on holidays... alternate them if possible. When I went through this with my ex, I had Thanksgiving and Christmas no matter what. If he wanted to see the kids then he would have to work that out with me in advance and we'd split the day up.
> 
> It all sounds business like because it is. Ideally you wouldn't have to suffer through this at all and neither would the children, but your STXW put it all in motion.


I think for the past few weeks she has really put huge pressure on john for them to move in. I suspect he isnt on that program. I honestly dont know. I was wiliing to give her the house free and clear so that the kids werent uprooted. Thats the only house they have evern known. Now she has decided that she wants to go a different direction. So then I will buy her out of the house. Its kinda sorta a financial push. Upfront will hurt but if I decide to sell, then I would get it all back and then maybe a little more. I might just keep it. I like the security of the house that if she really flakes out and leaves the kids on my doorstep after her new make believe life didnt actually work out as she imagined it would, then I have a place setup and ready for the kids. I wouldnt have a really skip a beat to get them back on track. 
Im truly sorry for how she has handled this process. For months I tried to make her see reason. I and the kids have sufferd huge and the scars will be there from some time. I honestly believe the kids would be best off with me, but she wont go for that. The new deal we have worked out is her deal not mine. So I had the lawyer draw up the papers and lets see if she goes for it.


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## turnera

How did it go, finding them a therapist?


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> How did it go, finding them a therapist?


That really has been a source of frustration for the last week. I think I called 8 and only recieved 4 returned calls. Guess people are pretty messed up out here. Of the 4, 2 didnt feel that they were a good fit for this situation. One of the 2 I really liked what she had to say. I think she would have worked out well. Her only open slot was on Saturdays at 2:30. I can make that but after speaking to my ex now that we are alternating week ends with the kids she told me that she wouldnt take them. Once again mother of the year doesnt feel they need it. So I going to keep looking.


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## turnera

Keep looking, but also ask the one you like to put you on a waiting list in case someone gives up their slot. People come and go all the time.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> That really has been a source of frustration for the last week. I think I called 8 and only recieved 4 returned calls. Guess people are pretty messed up out here. Of the 4, 2 didnt feel that they were a good fit for this situation. One of the 2 I really liked what she had to say. I think she would have worked out well. Her only open slot was on Saturdays at 2:30. I can make that but after speaking to my ex now that we are alternating week ends with the kids she told me that she wouldnt take them. Once again mother of the year doesnt feel they need it. So I going to keep looking.


The school social worker? They're on staff when the kids are at school, M-F. Call the school and set up a meeting.


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## A Bit Much

And go with the Saturday therapist. You haven't gotten to the every other weekend schedule yet right? That probably won't be settled for at least a month. Get them in 4 good sessions and then incorporate the social worker once a week during school.

Once the schedule is set in stone, they won't be missing a beat... without your ex's ignorance about helping them. Some things you have to proceed to do without her, and this is one of them. What you do with the kids on your time is YOUR business and responsibility. Counseling is not hurting them.


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## turnera

Ooh, good point, A Bit Much. I agree. Once you get them in there - and the sooner the better! - the therapist will work with you.


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## Sbrown

If you are not going to stop her from leaving the state, then you need a clause in the decree that states that neither of you can not move a certain distance from each other. If not, you WILL lose your kids!


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## ronin5573

Sbrown said:


> If you are not going to stop her from leaving the state, then you need a clause in the decree that states that neither of you can not move a certain distance from each other. If not, you WILL lose your kids!


Its already done. 100 miles is how its written with a clause that we will meet half way for drop offs and pick ups.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> And go with the Saturday therapist. You haven't gotten to the every other weekend schedule yet right? That probably won't be settled for at least a month. Get them in 4 good sessions and then incorporate the social worker once a week during school.
> 
> Once the schedule is set in stone, they won't be missing a beat... without your ex's ignorance about helping them. Some things you have to proceed to do without her, and this is one of them. What you do with the kids on your time is YOUR business and responsibility. Counseling is not hurting them.


We have been alternating weekends for about 6 weeks. So they would only go everyother week. The theripist didnt really like that idea. The search continues


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## A Bit Much

Well...

They at least can have the social worker talk with them weekly at school until you find a therapist that fits into the schedule you have. Maybe one that can meet with them mid-week instead of weekends? If they have other obligations like dance or sports, this IMO isn't any different and needs to be worked in.


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## ronin5573

The weekend went well. Once again it was my weekend with the kids and we celebrated my daughters birthday. Many of my supportive famly showed and and I think my daughter felt special. On sunday when we got home I put the kids to bed and then my stbxw was calling. She wanted to go through the marital settlement agreement so that we can come to an agreement and get it all wraped up. She really was nit picking every last thing to get the most but I had to really draw a hard line in the sand. I still think she wants this done quickly and she is on a time frame, maybe fuled by the BF John. The last item which I never suspected would be a hurdle in a million years is once the divorce is finalized, she want to contiune to live that for 30 days. I really was thrown off by that. Remember for the last 4 months us living in the same house has been nothing short of horrific. She has acted like a child screaming, yelling, throwning things and has never bite her tongue with all of her hateful comments, some of which will leave scars on me and the kids. So I reminded her of the situation and told her that it would be in everyones best interest that after things are done, she goes. She has many options as to where stay with friends , or family or even with the check Im going to have to write her she has plenty of cash to get a really nice hotel for the month. I also told her that it dosesnt apply to the kids and they are welcome to stay as long as they wish. She wasnt really on board of that. So then I said that she could stay for the month however I would charge her 2000.00 and then her settlement check will be put into a escrow account and any damage she causes while in the house for the 30 days will be deducted from that ammount. She got even more upset by that. Maybe she doesnt understand what divorce means but I do. Shes been nasty and will continue to be if she continues to live there. Then she sprung this little gem on me that she need to set things up with John and his family to help her move out. I told her under no uncertain terms just I like did 2 months ago, if John shows up Im calling the police.... period. He isnt welcome there now or forever. She went totally balistic and said "what do you expect me to pay for movers?" I told her I could care less how she moves her things just so long as it isnt the OM. Thats were we left things off so lets see what today brings.


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## turnera

Love it! Especially charging her rent!


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Love it! Especially charging her rent!


Its isnt about being mean, spiteful, or even vindictive. Its about I need to protect myself from what she may do. She could and most likely will raid the house of things that dont belong to her. If she has legal access to the house there will be nothing that I could do to stop it. She may also cause some serious damage to things in a childish tamtrum. Once she grabs things and there gone what would my recourse be? Almost nothing without legal action. I trying to protect myself here. If she agrees to my terms she will not have access to the house if im not there. I will change the locks and prevent her from entry.


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## Sbrown

ronin5573 said:


> Its isnt about being mean, spiteful, or even vindictive. Its about I need to protect myself from what she may do. She could and most likely will raid the house of things that dont belong to her. If she has legal access to the house there will be nothing that I could do to stop it. She may also cause some serious damage to things in a childish tamtrum. Once she grabs things and there gone what would my recourse be? Almost nothing without legal action. I trying to protect myself here. If she agrees to my terms she will not have access to the house if im not there. I will change the locks and prevent her from entry.


Not mean at ALL! Home run my friend, Home run! It is now a business transaction!


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## ronin5573

Sbrown said:


> Not mean at ALL! Home run my friend, Home run! It is now a business transaction!


There will be a time in the not so distant future that when I look at my Ex, she will just be this person that I knew a long time ago. A book I read a long time ago.


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## cmf

Her sense of entitlement is crazy . I'd tell her she chose to cheat on her husband and divorce, she can pay for the movers. I wish she would just leave the kids with you.


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## ronin5573

cmf said:


> Her sense of entitlement is crazy . I'd tell her she chose to cheat on her husband and divorce, she can pay for the movers. I wish she would just leave the kids with you.


I really am done. Not in June or even in July but Im done with the marriage. It dead and its starting to stink up the place. Time to dig a hole and get it buried. And you better belive I love cliches!!! :0)


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## A Bit Much

So far so good. It's fair under the circumstances, she just doesn't see it that way and who cares? She needs to figure her life out, and her problems are no longer YOUR problems.


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## PM1

"IMO they should stay with you full time, just for the sake of not uprooting them and changing schools and making new friends etc, but I doubt she'll go for that."




ronin5573 said:


> There are a million what if questions. In the not so distant future we will be legally divorced. Then what. Who will she live with where will she go? I dont have answers to any of those questions now. I have a hunch that John is a temporary thing. The affar started out bad and all the odds are against them, in spite of how much charm she has prolly turned on for him. The kids were are and will always be a worrie. I believe that they dont really fit into her new found 18year old lifestyle. I think she wants them for 2 real reasons. One is $$$$$$$. The other is I dont think she could live wite how others, her family etc would treat her is she abondoned the kids. But if she has that part figured out then I think she would leave them with me. Remember for the last few years she feels that she has done it all. I did nothign for her the kids the house or anything. She hasnt really been on her own yet. Right now I have the kids Half the time, I pay all of the household bills. She thinks its all great really. Bills paid free babysitter and she is free to come and go as she pleases. But that wont really be her future when things come to an end, espically if she goes to Indiana. Like I have said many times, Im in this thing alone and trying to make the best decisions for me and the kids.


Once again, I'd like to agree with the positive words about how strong you are being.

I am just curious, do you think that if you could offer more $$$$ she might let you have custody? I am guessing you are correct that someday she may end up dropping them off later anyway, but I was just wondering hypothetically if the argument about staying where they are familiar plus a little cash to sweeten the deal might cause her to consider leaving them with you. 

Either way, its good they have you as a consistent point in their lives. I've seen others who had unreasonable exes to deal with and in the long run their consistency paid off. Not easy, but worth the effort you have put in.


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## ronin5573

For the past few days she has been rapidly packing things up. She met her BF yesterday and gave him a whole SUV load of things. She must be planning to move in with Johnny boy. Last night was another humm dinger. She got home at 9:30 after taking my daughter to cheer leading practice. I was already in bed.... yes in the bedroom as my back hurt from the couch the night before. She stormed into the room and started packing up the bedroom bathroom. I asked to her leave as I just wanted to sleep but she wouldnt. She took a arm load of things downstairs to box it and I just up and closed and locked the door, turned out the light and went to bed. She comes upstairs and kicks the bedroom door in. Wood trim goes flying and everything. I took every once of self control to not completely flip out. I was extremely upset. Then she went downstairs to finish packing and then she threw a precious moment figurine into the family room wall. Huge gouge in the drywall. I should have just called the police but didnt. We are getting worse then war of the roses now. Its totally out of control and I have to really decide if I want to let her take the kids to indiana with the emotional state thats shes in. I told her I would give her another 100k on top of the settlement if she leave the kids with me forever and I would agree to never asking her for child support. She told me she wouldnt. So at this point I dont know where we are at but Im too angry to make life decisions so I will back away from the whole settlement negociations for a few days and cool off. I knew that when she decided to leave the house with me she would be destructive, and she is. I think her plan is to move everything out now while were still married as she knows the day things are finalized I will prevent access to the house. I cant imagine mine is a typical divorce. She has to be a rare breed. This is somekind of past anger in her life thats commming back now to haunt me. I try not to think about it as whats happend and after what she has done I cant be concerned about her anymore. Choice now is custody battle or not.


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## ronin5573

PM1 said:


> "IMO they should stay with you full time, just for the sake of not uprooting them and changing schools and making new friends etc, but I doubt she'll go for that."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, I'd like to agree with the positive words about how strong you are being.
> 
> I am just curious, do you think that if you could offer more $$$$ she might let you have custody? I am guessing you are correct that someday she may end up dropping them off later anyway, but I was just wondering hypothetically if the argument about staying where they are familiar plus a little cash to sweeten the deal might cause her to consider leaving them with you.
> 
> Either way, its good they have you as a consistent point in their lives. I've seen others who had unreasonable exes to deal with and in the long run their consistency paid off. Not easy, but worth the effort you have put in.


She isnt going to walk from the kids. I tried again last night. Im still being consistant but she is being really realllllly horrible. She is doing everything in her power to get me to assult her but thats never going to happen.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> So far so good. It's fair under the circumstances, she just doesn't see it that way and who cares? She needs to figure her life out, and her problems are no longer YOUR problems.


I agree with you. My problem is that while she is figuring her life out my children will be in tow. Is is fair to them that there mother is serious nut job? I cant even begin to tell you how much this is a helpless feeling.


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## turnera

Go to the police station and file a report on her destroying property by breaking down the door and making you fear for your life. Doesn't matter if they won't do anything. It will be on record with the police. You gotta start building a record on her.


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## Sbrown

I feel for ya man. Next time offer to carry her boxes.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Go to the police station and file a report on her destroying property by breaking down the door and making you fear for your life. Doesn't matter if they won't do anything. It will be on record with the police. You gotta start building a record on her.


I told my lawyer to get a protection order. Not the one where she has to leave the house but where its documented whats she doing.


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## turnera

After she broke the door down? You still need documentation of each and every event. There may come a time in court down the road where you have to show just cause why she needs to lose custody. A long line of police reports will do that.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> After she broke the door down? You still need documentation of each and every event. There may come a time in court down the road where you have to show just cause why she needs to lose custody. A long line of police reports will do that.


I know your right. Im a good guy at heart and though its time to get nasty with her, the kids will turn on me when they see their mother get arrested and cuffed. Im torn between protecting myself and just being nasty.


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## turnera

Whoa. I didn't say to have her arrested. I said to file a report.

That they have to keep in their files.

Which are public record and can be used in a custody case.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Whoa. I didn't say to have her arrested. I said to file a report.
> 
> That they have to keep in their files.
> 
> Which are public record and can be used in a custody case.


Well the reality of the situation is this is Will county Illinois. In the light of the Drew Peterson case they dont play with the domestic crap anymore. Cops come someone is going.


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## turnera

Still doesn't mean she'd get arrested. Maybe it would do her good to see the cops at the door for her behavior.


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> I know your right. Im a good guy at heart and though its time to get nasty with her, the kids will turn on me when they see their mother get arrested and cuffed. Im torn between protecting myself and just being nasty.


Take photos. Take photos of your belongings too. 

The kids don't need to see her get arrested, you can have them pick her ass up at work. 

You're going to have to get it out of your head that being nice is the best thing. In the wild the lioness doesn't ask the other animals kindly to please leave her cubs alone. She fights to the death to keep them safe. 

This woman is instable. She is out of control... while she may not hurt her own children, she doesn't have sense enough to keep her anger in check around you. They shouldn't see that or hear it. 

This will escalate until you do something drastic. If that means arresting her or at the very least having the police speak to her, then DO IT.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

ronin5573 said:


> I refuse to think thats true. I spoke with my laywer about her relocating 6 weeks ago. Truth is that she would win that in court. Sounds bad but its true. facts are facts. She would get a job there and say its the greatest job for her and the kids in the whole wide world. Another fact is the schools are better. Not kinda sorta but way better if you believe state and national test results. So I couldnt stop it even if I tried.. Remember Illinois and im the male.


Acutally that's not true.

A lot of courts WILL NOT let the custodial parent leave the state (and sometimes the area) in order to maintain a relationship with the other parent.

In fact, I was active duty military when I divorced my first husband and I had to have it put in the divorce papers that I was allowed to move with our son overseas and stateside if I got an assignment. And even though he signed the paperwork, when I actually got orders to an overseas assignment he filed an injunction to keep me from going and would have been granted one except we (ourselves) worked out a deal.

So that's not true--if you object to her moving out of the area - you can and will win.


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## Sbrown

She will not be arrested for destroying property that is legally hers. But putting it on file is a good thing! Tell her you have her moving arrangements figured out. Get all your friends to help. Buy them a steak dinner. Trust me it will be worth every penny! Rent the uhaul for her! Show her you want her gone NOW!


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## MarriedWifeInLove

ronin5573 said:


> I know your right. Im a good guy at heart and though its time to get nasty with her, the kids will turn on me when they see their mother get arrested and cuffed. Im torn between protecting myself and just being nasty.


But in the long run, the kids will know that you were doing what was right and what was right for them. They may not now, but they aren't stupid, they'll figure it out as they grow older.

I might have missed something in 50 pages (whew!), but why aren't you fighting for the kids anyway. 

She's made it clear that she will shack up with anyone who will take her, she's made it clear that she has anger issues, she's made it clear that she will lie and manipulate the children against you--WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU LEAVE THEM WITH HER?

She will only continue to poison them more, especially without you there full-time and they will begin to believe her without an opposing opinion or facts to the contrary.

And them living with her while she shacks up with current boyfriend and then moves on to another--what kind of stable life is that for them?

I would get FULL CUSTODY. If you have been documenting things, it shouldn't be hard.

And I agree with the others--take pictures of what happened with the door, etc., documentation--documentation. And IF you have to drag your kids into court to testify against their mother about things she has done--then I would do that too--in the long run they will be worse off with her and you know it--time to do something about it. 

If everything that has been posted here is fact--I wouldn't let this woman take care of my dog let alone my children. They are already scarred and whatever happens when she takes them and you're not there to protect them could do irrevocable harm that they will never recover from - do you want that on your conscience when you could have prevented it? I wouldn't.

I "borrowed" money for my first divorce and would have sold everything I had to protect my son - you need to do the same for yours.


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## PM1

ronin5573 said:


> She isnt going to walk from the kids. I tried again last night. Im still being consistant but she is being really realllllly horrible. She is doing everything in her power to get me to assult her but thats never going to happen.


At least you keep trying. You had to do that. I think when you look back it will help to know you have been doing everything you can for the kids. Keep it up.

Maybe when she no longer sees them as a lever to use against you, she'll leave them with you anyway. Seems like she's more about hurting people right now than rational behavior. Otherwise she would see that leaving them with you primarily would let her play all she wants.:scratchhead:


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## A Bit Much

In our state (IL) it's very difficult for men to get full custody. VERY. Judges do not do it unless the mother is drugged out (documented) or mentally ill (documented incidents). We have mothers here with full custody that have been reported and investigated by DCFS. 

This is not to say not to seek it, but in all fairness this situation wouldn't constitute a full custody award to Ronin. If she has a residence, isn't on meth, or taking heavy prescription drugs, she's going to get joint.


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## turnera

All the more reason to document with the police every incident.


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## warlock07

Keep a VAR or a video camera close to you. if you think the situation is escalating, start recording. You will be in serious touble if she calls the cops first


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## A Bit Much

warlock07 said:


> Keep a VAR or a video camera close to you. if you think the situation is escalating, start recording. You will be in serious touble if she calls the cops first


He has a VAR already.

And why would she call the cops on him? He's not doing anything to her. She'd be setting herself up if she did that.


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## turnera

> And why would she call the cops on him? He's not doing anything to her. She'd be setting herself up if she did that


I know a poster whose wife became so crazy that he refused to switch kids unless it was in a parking lot of a bank or other building with cameras. And he kept a VAR in his pocket and TOLD her he was recording her and she STILL kept going crazy on him. She has accused him of half a dozen 'crimes' and gone to court and lost each time. She unbelievably still has partial custody but over the couple of years, she has burned so many bridges with so many judges that her hold of the kids is really tenuous. All because he keeps impeccable records and goes to the cops every single time she does something.


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## Sbrown

A Bit Much said:


> He has a VAR already.
> 
> And why would she call the cops on him? He's not doing anything to her. She'd be setting herself up if she did that.


Yes I have seen it happen wife and hubby get into a fight wife (or neighbor) calls the cops says he shoved her, bam he goes to jail. Me and my first wife were arguing in our apartment and cops show up, cuff and stuff me and she was saying there was nothing physical and after all the cops spoke with her and couldn't talk her into saying I did hit her they finally let me go. Var and record everything!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove

Fine - joint.

But he can have primary physical custody - SHE VISITS, he is the full-time parent.

He CAN ask for that and since he has the income and better means to support the children, then it's in THEIR best interest for him to get primary physical custody. 

Testimony of the "kids" will prove that Mom is trying to pit them against Dad.

I'd fight for them for all I was worth if it was me (and even if I was the man in the relationship). 

My son fought hard for his son, very hard.


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## ronin5573

I went home early last night. She came home and we spoke for 45 minuites before the kids got home from school. First talk we have had in months that didnt end up in a fight. In the end I told her that I dont want to stop her from living her life but the kids are the prority to me. In the end we both agreed the marriage in gone and I wouldnt rehash what happend and who did what. I told her that she made a deal and then went back on her own deal. She addmitted to me that her lawyer assured her that I would give her more to make it all go quick. I told her that her origional offer was to make it go quick. We came to a new agreement and Little bit less then the origional for her damage that she caused. So we basically have it all agreed. She will get it all drawn up. Hopefully this will go quick as I now know that she wants out quickly. She admitted to me that her and John were in a very serious relashionship and were in love. I told her I hope so as she is making a huge commitment with a man she has only known for 2 months. I told her that Im concerned as my kids will be there as well. In the end I will have the house and if and when It all blows up in her face the kids will anways have some place to go. I will get their rooms set up after they move to Indiana as I anticipate that they will be back in the next year. I cant imagine that my ex's new fling which started off how it did under those terms will go well. This gut John has his own children and with them all under one roof I can olny imagine the stress of it all. I dont think either one of them has throught it through. My son will have his own room but my daughter will share a room with John daughter. My goal right now is to get the divorce finalized.


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## turnera

Great news.

Damn lawyers.


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## ronin5573

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Fine - joint.
> 
> But he can have primary physical custody - SHE VISITS, he is the full-time parent.
> 
> He CAN ask for that and since he has the income and better means to support the children, then it's in THEIR best interest for him to get primary physical custody.
> 
> Testimony of the "kids" will prove that Mom is trying to pit them against Dad.
> 
> I'd fight for them for all I was worth if it was me (and even if I was the man in the relationship).
> 
> My son fought hard for his son, very hard.


Sounds easy doesnt it. Just go to court and then they both come home with me. Thats not the reality. I have done a massive ammout of reserch and consulted with 2 very expensive and know attourneys that specialize in fathers rights and custody battles. After they had all the facts my chances are about 3 %. I worked and my stbxw stayed at home to care for the kids. Thats 85% of the battle that I have already lost. Money which I do have more of isnt a factor. I do feel that they would be better off with me and would grow up to be much smarter and better human beings. Facts are the facts. Sounds really easy but a 3 year coustody battle is really bad on everyone involved. Ive decided it time to give my ex enough rope and let her hang herself. Im going to end up with them anyway.


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## ronin5573

turnera said:


> Great news.
> 
> Damn lawyers.


Yea well at 250.00 an hour every email and every phone call gets expensive. I think my ex realizes 2 important things. One I wont be strong armed by her lawyer. and 2 Im not afraid to goto trial. Trial will cost us each another 25 grand in legal fees. I told her if her lawyer gets her to change the deal then its all off and we goto trial. I told my ex last night that this is the last chance for a settlement. I ment every word.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> In our state (IL) it's very difficult for men to get full custody. VERY. Judges do not do it unless the mother is drugged out (documented) or mentally ill (documented incidents). We have mothers here with full custody that have been reported and investigated by DCFS.
> 
> This is not to say not to seek it, but in all fairness this situation wouldn't constitute a full custody award to Ronin. If she has a residence, isn't on meth, or taking heavy prescription drugs, she's going to get joint.


I really looked into it. She has everything to get custodianship of the kids. Joint custody she has agreed to since the very begining. Im an a good father. I have always been a good father. But I did work 75 hours and week. My ex has been the primary care giver of the children for most of their lifes. Thats the truth. I will never get full custody based on the information that has happened. Not to say my ex wont flip out next week and do something to change that, but at this point its a loosing battle. This isnt about winning its about what is best for the kids. I think Im best for them but how do you convince a judge of that?


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## anchorwatch

ronin5573 said:


> Sounds easy doesnt it. Just go to court and then they both come home with me. Thats not the reality. I have done a massive ammout of reserch and consulted with 2 very expensive and know attourneys that specialize in fathers rights and custody battles. After they had all the facts my chances are about 3 %. I worked and my stbxw stayed at home to care for the kids. Thats 85% of the battle that I have already lost. Money which I do have more of isnt a factor. I do feel that they would be better off with me and would grow up to be much smarter and better human beings. Facts are the facts. Sounds really easy but a 3 year coustody battle is really bad on everyone involved. * Ive decided it time to give my ex enough rope and let her hang herself. Im going to end up with them anyway.*


:iagree:


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## ronin5573

warlock07 said:


> Keep a VAR or a video camera close to you. if you think the situation is escalating, start recording. You will be in serious touble if she calls the cops first


Ive been recording interactions since July 3rd.


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## jh52

ronin5573 said:


> I went home early last night. She came home and we spoke for 45 minuites before the kids got home from school. First talk we have had in months that didnt end up in a fight. In the end I told her that I dont want to stop her from living her life but the kids are the prority to me. In the end we both agreed the marriage in gone and I wouldnt rehash what happend and who did what. I told her that she made a deal and then went back on her own deal. She addmitted to me that her lawyer assured her that I would give her more to make it all go quick. I told her that her origional offer was to make it go quick. We came to a new agreement and Little bit less then the origional for her damage that she caused. So we basically have it all agreed. She will get it all drawn up. Hopefully this will go quick as I now know that she wants out quickly. She admitted to me that her and John were in a very serious relashionship and were in love. I told her I hope so as she is making a huge commitment with a man she has only known for 2 months. I told her that Im concerned as my kids will be there as well. In the end I will have the house and if and when It all blows up in her face the kids will anways have some place to go. I will get their rooms set up after they move to Indiana as I anticipate that they will be back in the next year. I cant imagine that my ex's new fling which started off how it did under those terms will go well. This gut John has his own children and with them all under one roof I can olny imagine the stress of it all. I dont think either one of them has throught it through. My son will have his own room but my daughter will share a room with John daughter. My goal right now is to get the divorce finalized.


Two months and in a serious relationship and moving in together. All I can say is WOW !!:scratchhead:


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## ronin5573

jh52 said:


> Two months and in a serious relationship and moving in togeher. All I can say is WOW !!:scratchhead:


Hey; maybe this is the love she has been looking for her whole life? Maybe I should create a days to break up line and we can all gamble on it. Least I might get some of the settlement money back. LMAO. never loose you sence of humor.


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## Sbrown

What does your lawyer say about her moving the kids out of state?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

Sbrown said:


> Yes I have seen it happen wife and hubby get into a fight wife (or neighbor) calls the cops says he shoved her, bam he goes to jail. Me and my first wife were arguing in our apartment and cops show up, cuff and stuff me and she was saying there was nothing physical and after all the cops spoke with her and couldn't talk her into saying I did hit her they finally let me go. Var and record everything!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes women lie in domestics quite often. My husband is an officer and he isn't so quick to arrest anyone without true cause. Her calling them over there is just that... a call. Not every domestic call results in arrest. That said, I'm sorry about what happened with your friend. There are 3 sides to every story though...


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## A Bit Much

ronin5573 said:


> Hey; maybe this is the love she has been looking for her whole life? Maybe I should create a days to break up line and we can all gamble on it. Least I might get some of the settlement money back. LMAO. never loose you sence of humor.


She didn't have to blow her family up over this. What happened to just stating facts and leaving? Why did there have to be another man? It makes her look even worse than she already does because theres a third party.. one she likely believes is saving her from some misery. Jumping from one mans bed to another never solved a thing. 

She'll find out soon enough. Maybe when he starts questioning her whereabouts and who she spends time with when they aren't together. A man that takes another mans wife is never secure in that relationship. He can't be. He's reminded every day how he got her and is petrified of the day she does it to him. 

At least she's being agreeable for now. I wouldn't have a party over it though... not just yet. She's too wishy washy for that.


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## ronin5573

A Bit Much said:


> She didn't have to blow her family up over this. What happened to just stating facts and leaving? Why did there have to be another man? It makes her look even worse than she already does because theres a third party.. one she likely believes is saving her from some misery. Jumping from one mans bed to another never solved a thing.
> 
> She'll find out soon enough. Maybe when he starts questioning her whereabouts and who she spends time with when they aren't together. A man that takes another mans wife is never secure in that relationship. He can't be. He's reminded every day how he got her and is petrified of the day she does it to him.
> 
> At least she's being agreeable for now. I wouldn't have a party over it though... not just yet. She's too wishy washy for that.


Lets just say Im optimestic but still causious. I think the current deal will go through. The only thing that I can think of that would kill the deal is if her and John had a break up. Her attitude towrd me has been great since our little talk on thursday. Im going to keep the peace and keep the ball going down the field. I dont think we have many yards left.


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## Mr Blunt

I have not read this whole thread so if I am repeating something then let me know.

In my state the child can chose to live with whichever parent they wish at age 13.
My grandson chose to live with my son rather than his mom at age 13. She had full custody but my son got my grandson.

Then there s the Santa Clause affect. This affect is when the children live with your wife, the new man of the house that is not their father, and other step-children. There will be stress and trouble and when your children come to see you then you can make sure that they have great time. They will be looking for you like they do Santa Clause.

From what I have read your wife is going to have a good deal of trouble. First, John will figure out that he was at least her third pick; then how is he going to trust her when she cheated on her family? John is going to be a suspicious fellow anyway as he is also a cheater. So as a man thinketh so is he.

Then there is the stress and conflict of having multiple pre-teen and teen children in the household. That would even cause trouble in a family that has both natural parents and just two children. Having step parents that are cheaters and extra children in the family will be potential fireworks.

I do not know if John is well off financially but if not the financial problems will kick in.

Ron, you sound like a cool cucumber that knows how to win in this situation. By what I have read you have to be patient, do the things that you know will s win you children back and in a few years you will have the house, your 401K, and the children.

Your biggest ally is time but you must be patient and do the right things.


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## ronin5573

Mr Blunt said:


> I have not read this whole thread so if I am repeating something then let me know.
> 
> In my state the child can chose to live with whichever parent they wish at age 13.
> My grandson chose to live with my son rather than his mom at age 13. She had full custody but my son got my grandson.
> 
> Then there s the Santa Clause affect. This affect is when the children live with your wife, the new man of the house that is not their father, and other step-children. There will be stress and trouble and when your children come to see you then you can make sure that they have great time. They will be looking for you like they do Santa Clause.
> 
> I have resisted the temptation to try to buy there love. Instead I have tried my very best to be the best father I can and be normal for them both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I have read your wife is going to have a good deal of trouble. First, John will figure out that he was at least her third pick; then how is he going to trust her when she cheated on her family? John is going to be a suspicious fellow anyway as he is also a cheater. So as a man thinketh so is he.
> 
> 
> On last Thursday last week I had a nice conversation with my stbxw. I asked her if she has really thought the whole John and kids moving in thing. She told me that she has giving it much thought and also said that she loved John. I personally think that she is still in that new relashionship thing and hasnt really given what there family dynamic will truly be. As far as how John thinks and feels, well I guess thats his problem. He is in his situation and he will have to deal with it. As I have said if I were him I dont think I could trust her as I would be waiting for her to do the same to me but who really knows what hes thinking. bottom line is I will retain ownership in the house and my kids always have a place to go.
> 
> Then there is the stress and conflict of having multiple pre-teen and teen children in the household. That would even cause trouble in a family that has both natural parents and just two children. Having step parents that are cheaters and extra children in the family will be potential fireworks.
> 
> I do not know if John is well off financially but if not the financial problems will kick in.
> 
> 
> I dont really know either. I dont think hes a totaly bust out however he may be up to his ass in credit card debit. who knows.
> 
> Ron, you sound like a cool cucumber that knows how to win in this situation. By what I have read you have to be patient, do the things that you know will s win you children back and in a few years you will have the house, your 401K, and the children.
> 
> Your biggest ally is time but you must be patient and do the right things.


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## ronin5573

Well I wrote here a few weeks ago that things would heat up as far as the divorce progress and it has. Tuesday was our first court apperance which was basically BS. It has now been changed to a prove up. The agreements have all been made and we should be all done by tuesday at noonish. Im 99% sure that its all done. The only snag now would be if her and John got into a real serious fight. After court she will come back to the house to finish moving the firnature that is hers and then she will goto indiana for good. Kids start school on Wendsday. Wendsday I drove out to indiana and met with the school principal and the kids soon to be teachers. I belive they will both get a much higher level of education then were they are now. Cross all of you finger and wish me luck.


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## Hopefull363

Wishing you and your children good luck!


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## anchorwatch

Good! Glad to hear. Keep your cool. Don't fret over any material possession she wants. I'm sure she'll want something to get a rise out of you. They are all replaceable. Hopefully she or her helpers won't cause any drama. Keep your eye on the prize, your children. Start planning events, activities and your family holidays for them now. Let us know how it went, next week.


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## ronin5573

As of Tuesday at 10:10 am the divorce is final. The whole thing in court took about 6 minuites. Directly after court she raced home and moved out all of her things. John was there with his son and his sons friends. I pulled up about an hour after the fact. I went right from court and retitled the house right then and there. Went I got home the move was in full swing. John was standing on the street and never came on my property or came into the house. I pulled up and seem him standing there but didnt say a word. Went in and made sure that she just took "HER" things. My dad got there about 10 minuites after I and we just sat and talked about court and didnt speak to any of them. Then about 10 minuites after that the police came. My ex called them and said there was going to be trouble. I explained everything to the officer and he then realized that everything was fine. My dad is a retired police officer and then he left. Maybe my ex thought I would start something with John but that wasnt going to happen as long as he staying away from me. By 12:30 they were all gone. I would like to tell you that after a 16 years together she said some kind of final words. She said nothing in court, after court, or at the house. Through or the whole ordeal she never looked for a resolution to anything. So I feel pretty confident that the marriage was totally unsalvagable. Oh well. I didnt say anything to her either. After she left the house she went to the kids school to get them and then they all went to Indiana. They started there new school Wednsday. I speak to them every day and they so far seem good. Busy with getting things unpacked and stuff like that. So I guess this long thread is comming to a close. Thank you everyone who has contributed to keeping me from loosing my mind, and for all of the invaluable advise which I recieved.


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## anchorwatch

You're welcome. Glad our long walk together was of help to you. Your new life begins. God bless your family.


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## A Bit Much

Well it's done. And you're so welcome. This ended quickly because you had some good agreements in place prior to court. No need to fight back and forth...

Good luck to you all. Time to turn a new page.


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## keko

Ron Im happy for you and your kids.

Best of luck and make sure to drop by and help other new comers with your experience's.


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## bandit.45

Your ex doesnt stand a chance in hell of having her relationshiop with John last more than two or three years before one of them cheats on the other. 

Please give us an update once in a while as to the progress of your life and recovery.

Godspeed brother.


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## Hopefull363

Good luck to you Ronin with the next phase of your life.


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## OldWolf57

Glad you can pat yourself on the back,,,,,,NOT !!!

Through out this whole tragedy all I have seen is too greedy selfish ppl hurting the kids.

You put money before the kids EVERYTIME !!!
You always has an answer for not getting those kids help.

Now your daughter, who is coming into young womanhood thinks its OK to have sex with ppl you are NOT married to.
She now thinks its OK to have a boyfriend while you are married to someone else.
Just think, you will probably be a grandfather by the time she is 16.

Thats the example you set by NOT demanding your lawyer file to have a family counselor talk to your kids every week.
You KNOW she was sleeping with him, and the kids was there. What does that say to a judge of her morals and judgement.

OH, BUT,,,, you didn't want to make her mad. 
You didn't want your D mad too.

Advice; use the 100K you was going to give her to keep them, and get them some help.

AND,, yes there was a poster that relayed how a dad let his EX move with the kids across the state line to live with her mother, and once there for 6 wks or so, moved to AZ, and there wasn't anything he could do since he OKed the move across the line.

I saw how Turnera went off on you, I see you kept this in general relationship section. You know how we would have advised in CWI, and that didn't fit you. Turnera was nice.

Get the kids some help !!!


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## tm84

Good luck with everything. It's good to know that there was no major drama at the end. However, I still think that you need to see to it that your kids get some kind of counseling to help them in the aftermath of all of this. 

Seriously, they need some major counseling because no matter how much you think that they understand, they are taking in all sorts of messages that have yet to manifest themselves and, yes, they will be more scarred without a mediating source of coping.


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## Patrick1959

Ronin 

You have survived the first part and now you have a break from the stress. Your next priority needs to be your children; the drama with your X-Wife will not end as quickly for them. In the future they will have the option as to what parent they want to live with and they will likely chose serenity over chaos. 

Keep space for them and let them know they are always welcome in your home. This may be a good time to open an educational IRA so when they finished high school they will have a place to stay (with you) and attend college or a trade school. You wife and POS John won’t consider this. When your children are finishing school the ex-wife may be competing with John to use the family resources for her children verse his. Then John may become very cooperative to get his new wife’s children out of the house. Is his intention still to marry her? 

So the struggle to end the marriage ends but now a different struggle begins. This will require different skills but the stakes are higher (the well being of your children). 

A short term goal perhaps is to find activities that you can do with your children so that you can enjoy time together and they will always look forward to visiting. Helping then stay connected with old friends may help then get through this as well. You should also look into finding a counselor who can help them work through the emotional problems, at least you can now pursue this without as much interference from you ex-wife.

If you have considered joining a church this may be a good opportunity to find a family oriented support group that may give you children a perspective about family to balance some of the poor examples you wife has displayed. 

50 miles rally is not that far; I drive that each day to, and then again from work. One hour each way, Audio CDs are great and I have used the time to maintain professional skills as well as listen to many of the great novels that I should have read when younger. Keep your mind occupied and the drive will be much less of a burden. Besides on one leg of the trip you’ll have your children’s company


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## DailyGrind

OldWolf57 said:


> Glad you can pat yourself on the back,,,,,,NOT !!!
> 
> Through out this whole tragedy all I have seen is too greedy selfish ppl hurting the kids.
> 
> You put money before the kids EVERYTIME !!!
> You always has an answer for not getting those kids help.
> 
> Now your daughter, who is coming into young womanhood thinks its OK to have sex with ppl you are NOT married to.
> She now thinks its OK to have a boyfriend while you are married to someone else.
> Just think, you will probably be a grandfather by the time she is 16.
> 
> Thats the example you set by NOT demanding your lawyer file to have a family counselor talk to your kids every week.
> You KNOW she was sleeping with him, and the kids was there. What does that say to a judge of her morals and judgement.
> 
> OH, BUT,,,, you didn't want to make her mad.
> You didn't want your D mad too.
> 
> Advice; use the 100K you was going to give her to keep them, and get them some help.
> 
> AND,, yes there was a poster that relayed how a dad let his EX move with the kids across the state line to live with her mother, and once there for 6 wks or so, moved to AZ, and there wasn't anything he could do since he OKed the move across the line.
> 
> I saw how Turnera went off on you, I see you kept this in general relationship section. You know how we would have advised in CWI, and that didn't fit you. Turnera was nice.
> 
> Get the kids some help !!!


Ouch!


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## ronin5573

OldWolf57 said:


> Glad you can pat yourself on the back,,,,,,NOT !!!
> 
> Through out this whole tragedy all I have seen is too greedy selfish ppl hurting the kids.
> 
> You put money before the kids EVERYTIME !!!
> You always has an answer for not getting those kids help.
> 
> Now your daughter, who is coming into young womanhood thinks its OK to have sex with ppl you are NOT married to.
> She now thinks its OK to have a boyfriend while you are married to someone else.
> Just think, you will probably be a grandfather by the time she is 16.
> 
> Thats the example you set by NOT demanding your lawyer file to have a family counselor talk to your kids every week.
> You KNOW she was sleeping with him, and the kids was there. What does that say to a judge of her morals and judgement.
> 
> OH, BUT,,,, you didn't want to make her mad.
> You didn't want your D mad too.
> 
> Advice; use the 100K you was going to give her to keep them, and get them some help.
> 
> AND,, yes there was a poster that relayed how a dad let his EX move with the kids across the state line to live with her mother, and once there for 6 wks or so, moved to AZ, and there wasn't anything he could do since he OKed the move across the line.
> 
> I saw how Turnera went off on you, I see you kept this in general relationship section. You know how we would have advised in CWI, and that didn't fit you. Turnera was nice.
> 
> Get the kids some help !!!


Man thats really harsh. I suppose you thought that my ex's affairs were my idea. Hell I even set her up with the men and then pretended that I didnt know. I guess from the comfort of your computer desk in florida its easy to pass judgement on others without even for a moment concidering all the facts of the matter. I couldnt then, and cant now control with my ex does. Of course the kids are the victims in all this. They will continue to hurt for awhile. I would love to tell you that I was just going to keep draging this whole ordeal out for 3 to 5 years and bankrupt us both with legal fees all in the good name of the KIDS. What then??? Would the ultimate outcome be any different?? You going to pay for my kids?? Or should I become a public aid recipent and have our great country pay for my wife affairs. Maybe then at least I would vote to reelect our currnet president, he likes those votes!! Bottom line is my concern is for them and I also think its safe to say Im also concerned for myself. You cant possible grasp the situation that I was in with the complete Nut Job she was. She pushed the limits of my self control right to the brink. Its had to end and end fast for everyones sake. I think its safe to say that it isnt over yet, only the marriage is. You say the money is my concern and not them. Well maybe thats true in a sence that now at least I have the ability and the means to support them financially as I always have. Most people that dont are called dead beat parents. If things with my ex progress for the worst then they can move in with me and I wont skip a beat. You can feel free to say what you will and pass any judgement that you like. I have reflected on many of the things that happened and with the exception of a few, I wouldnt change much.


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## OldWolf57

I walked the walk. I took the beatings, The demons still take control of me sometime. So Until YOU have seen been done and SURVIVED to feed the gators, save it.

I like some of the things you did, maybe I should have said so, but coming from migrant camp to migrant camp and seeing the thing ppl do to love ones and each other, KIDS are the FEW I truly feel for.
And the gators will eat for them


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## OldWolf57

I DO wish you and the KIDS the BEST !!


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## anchorwatch

Ron, Don't bother. It's just baiting.


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## ronin5573

anchorwatch said:


> Ron, Don't bother. It's just baiting.


I know and its fine. Everyone is a child advocate, which is good. The fighting and turmoil had to stop


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## anchorwatch

I agree. There was only one capable of that.


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## OldWolf57

AW, for your info bub, I was NOT baiting.

You know s**t all about me. I dont know you. So don't tell me what Im doing.


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## ronin5573

OldWolf57 said:


> AW, for your info bub, I was NOT baiting.
> 
> You know s**t all about me. I dont know you. So don't tell me what Im doing.



In politics... never retreat, never retract... never admit a mistake. 
Napoleon Bonaparte


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## Prodigal

Too bad Napoleon did not heed his own advice when invading Russia! 

Sounds like OldWolf could use an ice cold brew to chill out a bit. Eh, who cares? I followed your story from the very beginning. You did the best you could do, and you remained calm while being attacked by a woman who appears to have taken leave of her senses.

Attacking you on a single point - therapy for your children - which I believe you were getting for them via a school counselor - ain't worth a response.

Please keep us posted regarding the time you spend with your kids when you have them. I imagine exW's "grand romance" with John will burn itself out when the newness of it all wears off. 

Regardless, you did good!:smthumbup:


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## warlock07

I still think letting them move states into another man's house is a very bad decision. But ronin has the view of the situation. So...


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## OldWolf57

I came late. Read the thread in a few hrs. Made my post right after. Never said I didn't understand wanting to stop it the soonest.

With me, Melba, is a constant. A refuge.

So, now I say. 
Well done, but you can't be Ronin.

You are and always will be the true sauctuary for two small ones.


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## ronin5573

I thought I would check back into my origional post for an update. Its been almost 7 weeks since the divorce has been finalized. The kids are adjusting to the new school. After going to the school and meeting the teachers, I still feel that they will be getting a much better education. My son is doing best of the two. He is a lot better of going with the flow. My daughter and her mother have been having battles. My daughter now has to adjust to sharing a room with Johns daughter which is only 3 nights a week as she stays with Johns exwife the majority of the time. Johns daughter is the baby in the family and is used to being treated that way. She and my daughter share their fair share of turmoil. The visitation so far is working out great. On my weekends she is still meeting me half way and has been on time for the most part. I go ever other week all the way there to take them out for dinner. Both of my kids still hope that me and my ex will reconcile in the future but I try to tell them thats most likely not going to happen. My ex hasnt changed her tune tward me in any way. She is still as nasty as ever but what she says doesnt mean anything anymore. She still does things to simply annoy me such as she took my son to the doctor for a check up and paid cash. Then expects my half of the bill. I guess the blue cross blue shield ppo that i have isnt good enought. But other then the nonsence, all is going well.


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## turnera

I hope you don't pay it! 'Sorry, you had insurance available. I will pay a copay through them, anything else is your problem.'


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## keko

Ron, who's stopping you from doing the same thing on your wife? After a couple bills she'll "get" it and stop doing it to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Glad to here the children are adjusting, Ron. That's not an easy feat with the added burden of your unhappy and angry at life XW. Keep your eye on the situation. Hope they and your family are well and can have a peaceful holiday. 

BTW How are you adjusting?


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