# How many women actually get it?



## Gaylord (Oct 8, 2011)

In marriage there is a potential for a deep and rewarding connection between a husband and a wife that encompasses four areas; emotional, mental/social, spiritual, and physical. Contrary to what many women think, most men want deep relationships. They want to give and receive love; They want to feel an emotional bonding and they want to share their happiness and sorrow with their partner. Men are seeking fulfilling relationships which go way beyond the surface level satisfaction of sex. Men desire intimacy just much as we women do. 

In the book, "Lonely Husbands, Lonely Wives", author Dennis Rainey asserts that. "women are stimulated by, attitudes, actions, and are person-centered. Men are stimulated by sight and smell touch and are body centered." Unfortunately, most of the time men and women are in different worlds and different time zones! With a woman it's not so much the destination; it's really more about the journey - WOMEN ARE PROCESS CREATURES. Women are into process, the "Present" - and men obsess with goals - the "Future".

So it's quite difficult for the goal-oriented and process-oriented creatures to be on the same page. Is one more correct than the other? No, but men should try to understand that women are interested in relationships with people and they are interested in the feelings of people with which they build relationships. Women find immense fulfillment in close relationships. Women connect with others by talking and relating with them.

Men on the other hand are often very goal and achievement oriented by nature and they find their satisfaction in "doing" things. Even though women can also be achievement oriented, men are wired somewhat differently than women, and tend to experience the greatest levels of intimacy, and companionship going out and doing fun things with their wife's, participating in healthy activities, and lots of physical intimacy, such as sexual intercourse. 

When men appear to start abandoning their marriages it is because they are not getting the companionship fulfillment and sexual fulfillment they need from their wives. They are losing the connection they need in their marriage. Connection is much different for a man then it is for a woman. Men will create all kinds of excuses for this abandonment of the relationship because they don't want to look as if they are so shallow as to allow such things as sexual gratification or boredom to be the basis of their happiness. 

So, how important is sexual fulfillment and a wife's devoted companionship to a man? The real truth is evident from the myriad of case studies involving men that have left otherwise functional relationships in search of more sexual fulfillment and female companionship... Why would a man do this? Personal Fulfilment??? At what price? The cost to a man of leaving an established and otherwise functional relationship is astronomical. The cost in dollars of divorce can lower his standard of living and take many years for him to recover. He also will damage or completely lose relationships with his children, close friends, and members from her family. His reputation can be injured, and he could even become the source of gossip and scorn. Why would he give up a comfortable lifestyle for one of uncertainty and uneasiness. Is all of this is done for a chance at regaining his sexual fulfillment and contentment?

At this point his wife might say that all he was ever thinking about was his D***, right?. In retrospect, his wife thought he was happy with her when he was pitching in and helping around the house, he seemed to enjoy working outside the house making it a beautiful home. He usually tryied to keep up his end of the work load. He helped with the children, provided security, and a loving relationship. He talked with her, he listened. He tried to be understanding and supportive. He did this not to reward her for giving him happiness in return, but naturally in hopes that she will at least want to exchange fulfillment of her desires with fulfillment of his. But did either the husband or wife truly understand what the true meaning of fulfillment meant to the other?

In the above situation, assuming that the husband was fulfilling the emotional/physical/mental needs of his wife... It was this misunderstanding of what was fulfilling to her husband that lead her to believe that he was satisfied with their relationship. Perhaps her false security in the relationship let her believe that it was all right if she put less effort into the sexual part of the relationship, when indeed, substantially more effort was required.

In this example she is having her need for fulfillment met by her husband and in having those needs met she automatically assumed that her husband should be happy too. After all isn't this the natural conclusion that most rational people would be drawn to? Sure it is.... But it is absolutely the worst conclusion or assumption that any spouse could make. In this example she has now shifted the bulk of her efforts toward the home life and her family relationship (the place where she receives the most fulfillment in her life) and simply abandoned her husband in ways that are actually effecting him the most. He is now lacking some major fulfillment in one of the most important areas of fulfillment for him as a husband.

She is simply not aware that her fulfillment needs are NOT the same for her husband. And, yes she may even find that she is too exhausted to put anymore effort into doing anything with her husband. She doesn't see a sexual connection with her husband as being as important as he does. That is not to imply she won't have sex; she just doesn't feel a comparable interest in filling his desire for sex with her as he has in filling her desire for receiving fulfillment in home/family/ female/emotional/ desires. 

She doesn't see the value of trying to satisfy him in the sexual area of the relationship beyond where she is seeking her own fulfillment. Her needs are being met and her husband usually seems fine doing without sex for a few more days. "Doing" these things may no longer be a priority in her hectic life. And, her husband should be satisfied sexually, after all he just got it a couple of days ago. Even with her husbands help, which is a 50/50 working relationship, there is usually going to be a more pressing issue to deal with then sexing her husband, or fun and games as she sees it... She is dealing with money isues, children, work, her mood, her health, housework, and her absolute need for rest. She is totally worn out fulfilling her need for a strong family connection and harmony.

The challenge to relationships is how you maintain mutual fulfillment in a long term relationship. Those couples who rise to the challenge are the couples who stay together. Often a husband will mention his sexual desire from time and time, and then be shot down for wanting too much of a good thing. His mentioning and being shot down time after time can lead to his further frustration and lack of companionship which then leads to resentment. He often startes to feel ashamed of his own sexual nature, and in fact questions weather he will ever be happy in his marriage. Where is the passion and excitement he might ask. Doesn't she want me? At the beginning of our marriage she was a very fiery, passionate lover and I was the one that sometimes said "Not tonight, I'm too tired" as she sometimes wanted it twice a day every day, and this lasted for about six months, then all of a sudden she switched off and ever since she has not once initiated sex. I always have to be the one to "beg" for it. For a long time we were doing it about once or twice a week usually twice. I was fine with that, we both have busy lives and we were happy like that for years; but now things are getting worse, she stopped hugging me, kissing, telling me she loves me, she only returns it if I do it first, this has left me feeling unwanted, in bed she will hardly even touch me, she will just lay there waiting for her orgasm and when she's done, she becomes cold and whenever I hug her or grab her or do anything remotely passionate she will just shrug me away and I can feel this hint of detachment. 

I have tried talking to her about it but all I get is a cold "there's nothing wrong, you're imagining things". I wish she would just talk to me, (and she can call me all the names in the book if she wants) I only want her to open up with me. So in this example, he feels that he has been there for her. He even ask her to tell him if he is lacking in any area when it comes to fulfilling her needs. She states she is happy. At this point, if all else fails, he may even lose his cool a resort to attacking and trying to control his wife. He might even start suspecting another man has entered the picture! He is in a catch 22. She is content and doesn't feel the need make any changes. Once started down this dead end path the damage continues.

Love is about reasonable sacrifices within our current complacency for the mutual complacency and happiness of our partner. Love is not mushy feelings of tenderness, but a true commitment toward the giving of ourselves to the other. It is not about giving what we need in a relationship however. It is about trying to understand and give what is needed by our partner for their individual fulfilment within the marriage. I WILL SAY THIS AGAIN. It is about trying to understand and give what is needed by our partner for their individual fulfilment within the marriage. It is NOT about only trying to give your spouse what you assume they want because it is something that you would like have. Assuming that they should be happy that you are giving them what you would like will often end up being unfilfilling to your partner even if it is appreciated. When couples are committed to and accustomed to trying to understand what is truly needed by their spouse individually, and contributing to each other in that way, they will also find it much easier to sacrifice selfish opportunities of flirtation, and infidelity. 

When in comes to understanding sexual fulfillment from a mans point of view, we are not talking about sex 24/7 or anything like that. Because, at times it is also about sacrificing the amount of sexual fulfillment that he requires for other reasonable reasons. It simply boils down to this... As long as one partner is left dangling feeling longingly unfilled due to some die hard restriction or elements of inflexability, there will be problems in that area of the marriage.

There is always available through communication a negotiable point of equilibrium that can allow for mutual satisfaction. No one should feel as if their personal fulfillment has to be sacrificed at the expense of the other's inability to make reasonable adjustments. Reasonable sacrifices for one another and mutual fulfillment are another pillar of lasting relationships.

Knowing your spouse is understanding what is or is not fulfilling to them in your marriage and then following through and a loving way. For a wife, it is important to understand that some men will tend to compress the meaning of intimacy into the sex act especially after the amount of his sexual frequency has been dictated to him for long periods of time. He can become frustrated and upset. A man can feel controled, abandoned, empty and unfulfilled all at the same time. Why? Because he has been cut off from one of the main ways he as a man can feel closeness and a real bond in his marriage. Men are interested in closeness and intimacy and they have different ways of defining and expressing it than women do. Men have a tendency to express themselves physically and women have a tendency to express themselves emotionally. It's all in their natural programing. Don't believe me women? How good is your typical husband at expressing his emotions? 

A strong man understands that a woman is usually more focused on the process and the relating and the time shared within the process and anything that interrupts them from the process is a nuisance. Complicating this issue further is the fact that often the idea of sex with her husband is about the absolute furthest thing from her mind. She may be tired after a long day. She may be stressed about many of the undone things around the house. ( This is where a husband can help to relieve her stress and should. He needs to be reasonably understanding.) It is NOT about the orgasm!

Women generally are trying to seek the fulfillment of emotional connection and want to know that their feelings are both valued and shared in an intimate relationship with their husband. They also enjoy communicating closeness through mental forms of intimacy and "feel connected" through a mutual exchange of thoughts. This allows them to enter into the daily world where their husbands live and think. However, if her life's priorities are out of balance while seeking her own personal fulfillment, and she's not committed to understanding the importance of how her husbands desire factors in to the equation, then it is no wonder that eventually the marriage gets into trouble.

When the woman in the above example wants lots of non-sexual affection and family time together and goes out of her way to give those things, becomes totally frustrated when her husband complains that they do not do enough exciting things together, or that they do not have enough sexually intimate time together (His priority). On the other side of the "fence" her husband was also going out of his way to create opportunities for good experiences and for quality sex and being frustrated that his wife just wants to work around the house and sit and talk on the phone or on the computer, or watch TV and then fall asleep.

Marital Intimacy: A woman experiences the deepest intimate connection with her husband through emotional validation and mental exchange. A man achieves the same feeling of intimacy through involvement, "doing things" with his wife. He is interested in behaviors that will enhance closeness. And physical intimacy (love making) is a significant part of achieving that closeness for a man. 

The a husband and a wife must be intimately invested in meeting each other's emotional, mental, and physical needs while taking into account the fact that emotional fulfillment for their partner may be much different than their own.

Married women: Have you misread your husband’s need for sexual intimacy as simply a need for physical fulfillment? Think of a time when you may have hurt your spouse by refusing him when he needed that intimacy with you or when he was only trying to support you by showing you that intimacy. 

Satisfying the male’s sexual desire is not only about having sex with him; she has to be a sexual being to him, not just a body who allows him to have sex. A man is very aware when a woman is not into having sex with him. A man wants to feel as good about himself as a woman does. He feels good about himself when his wife wants to "do" things with him, be it sexual or otherwise. Her laying there and expecting him do it all is offensive and hurtful to a man. Just like it is for a woman who is being used and made to feel like trash. Why do people bother? Maybe its the only option that is given by a self centered spouse.

Men are excited by what they see, they have a visual orientation, they are made that way by nature. They enjoy seeing their wives bodies. Many women don't understand this. He wants to see and feel her body close to his. A man in love only sees her body with desire. To deny him this experience is to remove 75% of what he needs within the bedroom. Just like a woman doesn't like to be ordered around the bedroom by her husband a man doesn't want to be restricted by a wife who is hiding her body from him. 

Men don't think like women do and visa versa; men don't act like they do either. Instead of trying or hoping for a husband to change, accept the differences. The challenge in any relationship is how you go about maintaining the long term fulfillment in that relationship. Those couples who rise to the challenge are the couples who stay together. Whatever your situation, a husband is designed to balance his wife out. In a great marriage there is always a deep and rewarding connection between a husband and a wife that encompasses all four areas; emotional, mental/social, spiritual, and physical.


----------



## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

This was a terrifying read. I have been hanging out here for a week looking for things to give me hope, and this is like a letter I wrote to myself from the future. It sounds like no matter how hard I try, there's just never going to be an answer. Maybe I can devote my entire life to her and I will never get her to understand that I need sex more than the nine times we had it in our first 3 months of dating. I have definitely become one of those bitter, broken guys that is so sarcastic as to believe sex is just a tactic to get married. 

How much does a MC cost? It'd just be me. Secretly. I am running out of hair to pull out. I need someone to help me because I can't keep giving myself pep talks.


----------



## OldSchool (Nov 3, 2011)

Sarcastic isn't the word that describes best what you are talking about in regards to sex being a route to marriage from a woman's perspective, it's cynicism. 

And the idea is certainly not without its merits. Don't let it get you down though, explore options with MC, call around and find out how much it costs.

As a husband is your life not already devoted to her? Of course not every single moment, it's important for men to have a little time to themselves, familiarity breeds contempt for one thing and if you devote every second of your life to your wife and you don't feel like she does the same for you then it will lead to resentment.

You may also want to think about talking to a therapist on your own. Anyway, call around, get some quotes.



spaghettimonster said:


> This was a terrifying read. I have been hanging out here for a week looking for things to give me hope, and this is like a letter I wrote to myself from the future. It sounds like no matter how hard I try, there's just never going to be an answer. Maybe I can devote my entire life to her and I will never get her to understand that I need sex more than the nine times we had it in our first 3 months of dating. I have definitely become one of those bitter, broken guys that is so sarcastic as to believe sex is just a tactic to get married.
> 
> How much does a MC cost? It'd just be me. Secretly. I am running out of hair to pull out. I need someone to help me because I can't keep giving myself pep talks.


----------



## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

Lucky is the man whose wife not only understands his needs, but tries to accommodate them, at least meet him somewhere if his drive is higher than hers. I suffered in a marriage like this and I know far too many men who have too.


----------



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Zzyzx said:


> Lucky is the man whose wife not only understands his needs, but tries to accommodate them, at least meet him somewhere if his drive is higher than hers. I suffered in a marriage like this and I know far too many men who have too.


"Lucky is the woman whose husband not only understands her needs but tries to accommodate them."

I agree and also think it can work both ways.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I am learning  By going through our rough patch, we are much closer and communicate much better. I see him better as a whole person and he 'gets' me in a way he never did before.

It's working and a continuous work in progress. But it's good


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I think the original poster's tome really points out why it is so offensive to a man who finds out his wife is cheating, especially when he's been doing all he can to fulfill her needs.

That she would receive all that and still step out on the marriage is extremely disturbing and offensive.

This is not to say that there are no things to be done differently.

I'm describing perception of effort put into the marriage. And the resultant "reward."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## off the crazy train. (Nov 1, 2011)

Wow, that post explains what I've been trying to say about what my needs are in a marriage (and have been looking for all my life!!).


----------



## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I think a man can talk to a woman and try to communicate or show her all day long what he wants/needs. If she doesn't get it and or chooses to continue to ignore it, then he is likely with the wrong person. And vice versa for the woman.


----------



## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

trey69 said:


> I think a man can talk to a woman and try to communicate or show her all day long what he wants/needs. If she doesn't get it and or chooses to continue to ignore it, then he is likely with the wrong person. And vice versa for the woman.


And then you start that scary thought process of "i can fix this, i just get a divorce, wreck her emotional state and sense of security, screw both our credit over, prepare to default on the mortgage, wonder where the dogs will live once we're both renting, and wonder which of our friends will still talk to me".


----------



## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

spaghettimonster said:


> And then you start that scary thought process of "i can fix this, i just get a divorce, wreck her emotional state and sense of security, screw both our credit over, prepare to default on the mortgage, wonder where the dogs will live once we're both renting, and wonder which of our friends will still talk to me".


I understand and yes its scary, BUT there are not that many choices on the issue. 

If two people "get" each other and are willing/ learning to work it out fine. If things are not working out then your choices are things like, accept it and hope that it changes. Accept it, and no hopes of anything, you just both co-exsist for the
rest of your lives with the same problems. Or you both divorce and move on with your lives. 

Divorce can suck and so can staying in a dead end relationship that isn't going anywhere, because neither person, or even just one, doesn't want to work on it.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Well, if I have to base my opinion on what I see here on TAM and within the realm of my real world friends/family, I would say that about as many women actually 'get' it (the importance of sexual connection to men) as men actually 'get' it (the importance of emotional connection to women and how the lack thereof impacts a woman's ability to maintain a gratifying sexual connection with a man).

It is very definitely a two-way street, and neither spouse exists within a vacuum.

I have noticed that hindrances to a healthy sexual dynamic within marriage are what I call the "3 lacks": a lack of understanding and a lack of acceptance that partners will typically have differing drives, differing tastes, and different levels of maturity (sexual and otherwise) and a lack of willingness to try and overcome those obstacles.

Being able to understand and accept that those differences exist, and being willing (both partners) to work together is what it's all about. Nobody ever said it would always be easy, but it certainly can be very rewarding.

_“There are always two choices. Two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy.” ~ anon._


----------



## Gaylord (Oct 8, 2011)

Please watch the program below for *Friday 11/4*

"How Do I Make This Relationship work?"

Its discusses using reasonable confrontation and the process of restoring a mutually happy marriage.



Enjoying Everyday Life


----------



## Gaylord (Oct 8, 2011)

It is very clear to me that many woman have not fully grasped the importance of what sexual fulfillment means for a man in marriage. They are sometimes only concerned about what fulfillment means for themselves in their marriage/life, etc. and usually believe that their husband's want and need all of the very same things they do... It's that simple! They see sex as sex, and fulfillment as fulfillment. A woman might say, "What does one thing have to do with the other?" In her mind, the emotional side of things are actually triumphing over the physical aspects within her marriage. But for a man, the physical side typically plays a more predominate role in his emotional state and well being. A women who truely doesn't understand her husband's mindset and opposite programing will often say things like, "I'm happy, I'm content, why aren't you?" "Why are you acting so needy?" "What is your problem... You just got it last night!!! All you ever think about is sex!" i.e. THE PROBLEM at hand... No pun intended.




The following post was another telling response from a very kind woman who read the article I wrote above; 


*Quote from the article:

In retrospect, his wife thought he was happy with her when he was pitching in and helping around the house, he seemed to enjoy working around the house making it a beautiful home. He helped with the children, provided security, and a loving relationship. He talked with her, he listened. He tried to be understanding and supportive. He did this not to reward her for giving him happiness, but naturally in hopes that she will want to exchange fulfillment of her desires with fulfillment of his. But did both the husband or wife truly understand what the word fulfillment meant to the other? *

Her response;

_This pretty near described 19 yrs of our marriage, NO, I DIDN'T realize what fullfillment meant to him -deeply. He did try to help me around the house and things, but in reality, I didn't need much help, I was on the ball , I was never one of those "tired" wives, he always called me the Energizer bunny. I had no inkling why he was trying to do my dishes, some nights -found out many years later - when we finally opened up about sex -at my leading - he went online yrs trying to see how he could get more sex when things were a little DRY for him back in the day. 

I think he read the wrong article though - cause for me, this is not how you do it. My issues were never being tired. He needed to TALK to me, FLIRT, come on to me ,tease me, something of that nature. Not housework! I laughed at him when he told me that !

I guess we are all different. _


*Quote from the article:

In the above situation, assuming that the husband was fulfilling the emotional/physical/mental needs of his wife... It was this misunderstanding of what was fulfilling to her husband that lead her to believe that he was satisfied with their relationship. Perhaps her false security in the relationship let her believe that it was all right if she put less effort into the sexual part of the relationship, when indeed, substantially more effort was required. *

Her response;

_MY dear husband gave me such little indication he was not happy, it is hard to imagine, he only seemed to show it with more irritation with our children, but never me. He was good to me throughout everything. We did have sex at least once a week but sometimes it was JUST once a week. _


*Quote from the article:

She doesn't see a sexual connection with her husband as being as important as he does. That is not to imply she won't have sex; she just doesn't feel a comparable interest in filling his desire for sex with her as he has in filling her desire for receiving fulfillment in home/family/ female/emotional/ desires. She doesn't see the value of trying to satisfy him in the sexual area of the relationship beyond where she is seeking her own fulfillment. Her needs are being met and her husband usually seems fine doing without sex for a few more days. *


Her response;

_Very very true, I didn't get it. I think the biggest problem here is ...generally WOMEN are NOT feeling it like men, we are ALWAYS satisfied physically by our husbands, we have not been in the position to "crave', to "starve" for it -our husband's JUMP for us in this area, so this learning , this walking in thier shoes -never comes upon us. So yeah, we kinda just go along feeling -since this is how I feel..... he likely FEELS the same. WRONG! 

This is why men need to be openly vulnerable about these things so thier wives can at least TRY to understand, but many men will not go there- they do not like the emotional, and often FEAR the rejection too much. My husband did. Most resort to fighting over sex , being cranky, not explaining the Why's, and this pushes thier wives away, it has the opposite effect. Although I wish my husband would have faught with me, at least I would have had a clue. He chose to suffere in silence, I personally see that as the bottom of the barrel in how to handle it. 

I came to these realizations on my own when I had my own sexual awakening, I felt I stepped inside the body of a raging hormonal teenage male and WOW, was my eyes opened... sometimes this happens in later life with us women, but by then, their men are slowing down, kind of a cruel joke...

But so true as you say, we can weather all of this.....IF we undestand, if we education ourselves -get that revelation earlier in life - and truly commit to loving our spouses through these times, even when we are not feeling it "as strongly" as he is. 

Love your write up here, I am not offended as a woman..._


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh brother again. A more useful question is do men and women get it. 

If women are at the root of all of the problems with marriage then you have to assume that women harbor an agenda - get a guy to marry them and give them kids and hold him in the bonds of marital hell in perpetuety. All marital problems will be solved if women become more like men. Would that make an ideal marriage? . 

I like to read on this site - Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice i find it balanced and very helpful when I begin getting into an emotional rut and revert to old dysfunctional habits of thinking about men and relationships. It pulls me from the brink. It is getting easier and easier to squash my anger and resentment when I see and hear the sentiments being voiced here. 

Neither gender has cornered the market on misunderstanding and misinterpreting the other. Both men and women share equally in the current troubled relationship landscape. Not feminism, the female vote, working women, assertive women, independant women. If I read this OP post correctly he seems to say that if women were more like men - honest about their desires, strait-forward and aggressive about sex, instantly turned on upon seeing the object of her passion, which is never effected by perturbations of hormones and childbirth. everyone would live happily ever after. This is as unreasonable as women wanting men to cuddle and be affectionate without getting arroused and to be a knight in shinning amour. Ridiculous. 

We all have sons and daughters that we cherish, do you really think that men and women have a secret agenda to with hold from each other what we need? In fact I see the opposite , I see well ajusted adolescents with very loving sweet attitudes towards each other. It is wonderful to see. What happens between that sweet trusting innocent stage and the adult battle of the sexes stage i am not sure. It is complicated and does not boil down to faulting one gender or the other. 

We don't understand each other. I think in the next 5 to 10 years, things will greatly improve. This transitional period has spawned discontent but it will also lead to solutions that will support the advancement of our species. I hope we have to reach a tipping point where both men and women say enough is enough and lay down our arms and turn to each other for solutions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Oh brother again. A more useful question is do men and women get it.
> 
> If women are at the root of all of the problems with marriage then you have to assume that women harbor an agenda - get a guy to marry them and give them kids and hold him in the bonds of marital hell in perpetuety. All marital problems will be solved if women become more like men. Would that make an ideal marriage? .
> 
> ...


Yup. Only men want sex and women withhold. Ridiculous. 
What I find even more ridiculous is he keeps posting this exact message nearly once a month, deletes the message and then posts it again nearly 4 weeks later....for the third time.


----------



## Gaylord (Oct 8, 2011)

Here is something for you to consider... If you feel that subject matter is not applicable to your situation please disregard.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Oh brother again. A more useful question is do men and women get it.


TBH, is this any worse than the "destabilise / be aloof / destroy the village to save the village" trope that's trotted out here over and over and over again?

One size does *not* fit all, one method is *not* 100% guaranteed to work in all circumstances, *nobody* has a monopoly on the truth. But just as destabilising will work for some people, so will this.


> We don't understand each other. I think in the next 5 to 10 years, things will greatly improve. This transitional period has spawned discontent but it will also lead to solutions that will support the advancement of our species. I hope we have to reach a tipping point where both men and women say enough is enough and lay down our arms and turn to each other for solutions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cobblers. Sorry, but understanding will only happen when people actually *want* to understand, and feel some urge to alter their actions and expectations. Outside the somewhat atypical atmosphere of TAM, I see no evidence whatsoever that men and women want to understand one another never mind change their expectations.


----------



## Onedery (Sep 22, 2011)

I think it's less complex than the OP's is describing it.
I'm sure that everybody cherishes a good sexual relationship.
The problem lies in finding somebody you wish to share it with.
I just thought my ex was "frigid" and didn't require attention more that the two or three times a month she was willing to accommodate me.
It turned out that she was very aggressive, sexually, just not with the guy who was keeping a roof over her head.


----------



## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Gaylord said:


> It is very clear to me that many woman have not fully grasped the importance of what sexual fulfillment means for a man in marriage. They are sometimes only concerned about what fulfillment means for themselves in their marriage/life, etc. and usually believe that their husband's want and need all of the very same things they do... It's that simple! They see sex as sex, and fulfillment as fulfillment. A woman might say, "What does one thing have to do with the other?" In her mind, the emotional side of things are actually triumphing over the physical aspects within her marriage. But for a man, the physical side typically plays a more predominate role in his emotional state and well being. A women who truely doesn't understand her husband's mindset and opposite programing will often say things like, "I'm happy, I'm content, why aren't you?" "Why are you acting so needy?" "What is your problem... You just got it last night!!! All you ever think about is sex!" i.e. THE PROBLEM at hand... No pun intended.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you are generalizing quite a bit. Maybe YOUR wife doesn't get it, but many wives do. Men and women are different, but I'd like to give each gender more credit than you are for being able to bridge those gaps. 

I have no doubt that your cynical view correlates to your unhappy marriage and I'm truly sorry about that. But I don't agree with much of what you are saying, In fact, I would say that overgeneralizing about a gender will keep you from what you are seeking - greater understanding. Maybe relating to your wife as a person, instead of as a gender might help your marriage?


----------



## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Yup. Only men want sex and women withhold. Ridiculous.
> What I find even more ridiculous is he keeps posting this exact message nearly once a month, deletes the message and then posts it again nearly 4 weeks later....for the third time.


Word.....


----------



## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm not sure if this was answered somewhere in this thread, but the question for most married men is: why did my wife loose sexual interest after marriage? She seemed to want sex before marriage!

I've talked to a couple of friends of mine who also talked to friends of theirs and this seems to be a common thing. Wives say they are tired, busy etc. So are the husbands but we don't complain. 

There is a reason why a newly engaged man is the butt of married life jokes such has no more BJs, his life is over etc. Because much of it is true! I was the butt of those jokes and it all came true!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

This sums up exactly how I feel. Im the wife, but I have more "masculine" needs or expression of love... when Im stressed I like sex to feel close and am with a husband who has more the female needs you just described. But, I also am a woman and like to be desired... so its a double dagger of sorst when my husband wont have sex with me... not giving of himself to meet needs and also communicating Im not desirable. He is always surprised when I ask if he is attracted to me... like I should know that when he refuses any advance I make....:scratchhead:


----------



## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Oh brother again. A more useful question is do men and women get it.
> 
> If women are at the root of all of the problems with marriage then you have to assume that women harbor an agenda - get a guy to marry them and give them kids and hold him in the bonds of marital hell in perpetuety. All marital problems will be solved if women become more like men. Would that make an ideal marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine,
I'll leave out all the aspects about this topic being a broken record (showing my age here) and putting all members of each gender into simplistic buckets, and so on. 

But there is one thing I see here tiptoed around time and time again. And that is this fact: Yes, there are some women who DO see marriage as primarily a means to get kids and financial support, and give far lesser importance to the relationship they will have with their husband. And these women do see it as a goal - land the best man they can get and set themselves up as I just described. 

I HAVE HAD several women admit to me, directly in conversation, that this is, in effect, exactly what they did. They described the goals they had and how to varying degrees they saw the man as a means to an end for their personal agendas. 

To give some context, I am in my mid-40s, divorced, and most of the women who've told me such were in their 30s and 40s, some divorced (but not all), and it was usually part of a larger discussion about our lives, hopes, goals, etc and how they played out over the last 2-3 decades. The two items that came up most often as being where their men didn't know full extent of their plans was having children and not having to work. I offered no condemnation or negativity in these talks, as I was far more interested in having them comfortable enough to be that honest.

Do they represent all women? heck no. But to deny that *both* men and women will not always disclose their larger goals and agendas when entering a relationship is to whitewash a perhaps unconvenient truth.

So yes, women can harbor an (undisclosed) agenda. Fact of Life. So can men. 

Everyone (especially young men) should be aware of this potential and understand what they are getting themselves into, in order to minimize the chance of being yet another "I never thought I would be posting here". 

Life's too bloody short to go through a large part of it thinking you had a partner when you're really just a means to their ends.


----------



## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Anubis said:


> Catherine,
> I'll leave out all the aspects about this topic being a broken record (showing my age here) and putting all members of each gender into simplistic buckets, and so on.
> 
> But there is one thing I see here tiptoed around time and time again. And that is this fact: Yes, there are some women who DO see marriage as primarily a means to get kids and financial support, and give far lesser importance to the relationship they will have with their husband. And these women do see it as a goal - land the best man they can get and set themselves up as I just described.
> ...


So you know a few female narcissists. But I think the majority of people don't USE people to get what they want, especially when it comes to marriage.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think there is a great deal of interest in solving the problems that men and woman are having because it effects children and the future stability of our country. Just look at the news, discussions, blogs reputable scientific journals to lend credence to the interest factor. The action stage is disjointed because the crisis is not yet at its nadir, the next generation coming of age in the US will be the hardest hit. 

They will be the yield of kids who grow up in an era of the most gender contentious, hyper sexed, me focused time ever. They have easy access to an unbelievable amount of information, they grow up completely immersed in a technological soup of online games, apps for this and that, instant communication and information 24/7 anytime any where. no other generation has come to age under these influences. I think it makes people less connected more distant and distracted by the buzz of info and communication and entertainment, even though they seem more connected. 

when they begin to notice the opposit sex - they'll google it, look at porn and there they get the answers. . Perhaps some responsible and attentive parents will guide their kids but most will not. I think that generation will so completely out to sea when they try to connect emotionally that the will want to change the dynamic
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Anubis that may be but I think there are as many men who go into marriage with unrealistic and secret agendas. 

I think both genders have unrealistic expectations and secret agendas. How many men have a list of required sex acts that they considered due a man who pledges his fidelity to one woman. His idea is that he is giving up everything to be with this one person so she should fulfill all if his sexual fantasies from porn vids. He wants the enthusiasm, the brazen prancing around, he dreams of his virginal bride doing a striptease for him and dressing up in costumes, masturbating for him, having sex outdoors, on the kitchen table, giving him bj on demand like she workshops his junk. What a disappointment when he gets exactly what she appeared to be, a good sexually repressesd girl. 

I don't think that the sexual expectations that most men have going into marriage is any more realistic than a woman's financial expectations. it is a mistake to assume that the efforts she makes in the in love stage to make her new man sexually happy will be sustainable if he is not making an equal effort to learn her body and please her. . He is in the heady happiness of a bride who does everything he wants sexually so she must be happy. She is for now, but she assumes that he in his happiness he will remember to work at pleasing her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> So you know a few female narcissists. But I think the majority of people don't USE people to get what they want, especially when it comes to marriage.


Maybe you're right, but so is he. And look around - on other threads no one turns round and says of the person whose partner is bipolar or BPD or OCD or whatever "Well, most people aren't like that - what's the problem for you?"


----------



## Gaylord (Oct 8, 2011)

I want to talk about a possible reason why a woman can become very non-receptive toward her husband regarding his sexual appetite. Often her reluctance has something to do with his offensive approach toward her about this matter. Most of the time, if a man "blows up" on his woman, it is primarily because HE is not getting sex. HE is not getting something HE wants from his wife and so HE lets her know HE is unhappy about HIS doing without... and as you can already see... what is missing is the BIGGER MENTALITY that is more concerned about the marriage relationship... that is more concerned about the MUTUAL GOOD. He is projecting to his wife that he is ALL ABOUT HIMSELF.

When a confrontation like this fails, this is the exact reason it fails... the man blows up on his wife over something HE wasn't getting... over something HE was unhappy about... without regard for his marriage or his wife or the bigger picture and situation...

And then, after an extended period of time, when a wife gets fed up with this one-sided, self-centered mentality and asserts that she is either leaving, or wants a separation, all of a sudden a man puts sex in its proper position... and NOW, he realizes that sex is actually LESS important to him than is his marriage relationship... and THAT is HOW he SHOULD have been operating all along... but he wasn't.

So, in the above scenario if a man had been experiencing non-iintimacy for more than several days (especially if it has been many weeks or more), then the right mentality would have been to go to his wife and say something like:

_"I want both of us to enjoy the best possible life together. I want to be happy... and I want YOU to be happy just as much. Clearly, you have not been happy for the last few weeks/months, and I sure don't want you to continue being that way... I know you don't want to be unhappy... So, what do we need to do... what do I need to do... what are the things I need to change... what do you need to change... so that you can be happy again? And, if you aren't too sure at this moment in time, then lets simply try to identify just one thing that you'd like to change or see different and we can try and take care of that one thing... and that could get things moving back to better direction of happiness."_

With something like this, a woman will plainly KNOW that her husband has the appropriate, attractive, manly, US - WE - GREATER GOOD mentality that he is SUPPOSED to have... She realizes it is not all about what he is not getting (sex) and she knows that her husband is open to changing and working on the relationship... and that he is holding her accountable for her part in the equation... and she is better able to respond to all of this in a more positive way.


----------



## SilverSiren (Nov 8, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Well, if I have to base my opinion on what I see here on TAM and within the realm of my real world friends/family, I would say that about as many women actually 'get' it (the importance of sexual connection to men) as men actually 'get' it (the importance of emotional connection to women and how the lack thereof impacts a woman's ability to maintain a gratifying sexual connection with a man).
> 
> It is very definitely a two-way street, and neither spouse exists within a vacuum.
> 
> ...


----------



## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> Maybe you're right, but so is he. And look around - on other threads no one turns round and says of the person whose partner is bipolar or BPD or OCD or whatever "Well, most people aren't like that - what's the problem for you?"


That makes no sense.....


----------



## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Here are two links on the subject:

The Dennis Prager Show

The Dennis Prager Show.

To be fair, there are times that a woman's needs are not being met so it becomes difficult for her to open up sexually. That was the case in our marriage. A woman needs to feel emotionally intimate before she wants physical intimacy whereas a man gets emotional intimacy through physical intimacy. Here is a great site that addresses that side of the issue:

intimacy in marriage


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

romantic_guy said:


> Here are two links on the subject:
> 
> The Dennis Prager Show
> 
> ...


during those times it is her responcability to comunicate that to her husband.

honey I don't feel like haveing sex because you are not meeting my emotional needs. NOT IGNOR the problem and let resentment build. while the husband scratch his head and decides to masterbate to porn.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I am someone who gets it -- I can honestly say I have been on both sides of this issue....sex was not on the brain continuously in our early marrage, I had other things on my mind, gettng pregnant , building our dreams, I was sexually uneducated and somewhat repressed, too much good girl mentality. 

Could I have been there more for my dear husband ....Hell yeah! Was I...not really, both our faults..I wasn't getting it -cause I was ALWAYS satisfied sexually, and he was too passive about his needs, never faught once with me, but just waited patiently -till I was wanting it too (at least once a week)-though he would have loved every day. 

Then in mid life, I had some kind of awakening that took and shook me by storm, like lightening hit me, I swear, if my husband was not into sex, I would have left him, It was so much harder to be on the end of this kind of NEED and not have it fullfilled , just thinking about it tore me up -in comparison to where I was before, I just didn't "get it".... HOW my husband was feeling, that incessent NEED, that drive that consumes your mind, your heart. 

This was So powerful for me, I broke down and CRIED to him -for being the way I was, it was very emotional for me, as I realized how I HURT him, -learned he didn't even masterbate during that time - I was like "WHAT???" !!! Then I literally got MAD at him for NOT asserting his needs to me back then, for TRYING to make me understand how he was feeling. He should NOT have been that self -less. I sure wasn't willing to be ! 

I feel we missed the best years of our youth- because if our own stupidity. Damn, I could kick myself, I could have done sooooo much more!! 

I will never be the same- After that experience. Women need to understand their men. Take it from me, it is harder to be on this side of the "wanting" fence !! I have a beautiful marraige, but I seriously would have given it up -over sex, it would have killed me had he not wanted me -when I was feeling like that. 

I can see why men leave marraiges over sex, I don't blame them a bit. I "get them" and what they are going through, just imaginig it -is enough for me to sympathize. 

My husband has never been blessed as wonderfully as when I finally came into understanding MEN and thier needs in this area. But I could still kick myself for missing it when we were younger. I have many regrets here. I wish I had a time machine.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This was So powerful for me, I broke down and CRIED to him -for being the way I was, it was very emotional for me, as I realized how I HURT him, -learned he didn't even masterbate during that time - I was like "WHAT???" !!! Then I literally got MAD at him for NOT asserting his needs to me back then, for TRYING to make me understand how he was feeling. He should NOT have been that self -less.


Back before your Damascene moment, if he had asserted his needs, would you have done anything different, or tried to understand? You've said you were pretty indifferent about sex back then. Before your awakening, would you have been understanding / accomodating, or dismissive?

Just asking...


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

It isn't just understanding that is needed (and by both). It is commitment that is needed.

I have a fortune from a fortune cookie pinned up in my home office that says "Commitment is what turns promise into reality."

If both partners are not truly committed to working things out and trying their best to do what their partner needs, then just understanding still gets you nowhere if you aren't truly committed to making a change. imho.


----------



## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

I have been pondering this one for a while now. I can see where the OP’s thoughts may be logical.

Certainly there may be times where a woman just doesn’t “get it” Hearing it from her husband may allow her to “get it” but it certainly does not mean that once she “gets it” that she has the desire, knowledge, or ability to do anything with it. 

There may be times when her “getting it” makes the difference. Certainly can’t hurt to bring it to the surface. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.

But, just “Getting it” does not erase resentment… It does not build desire that is not there... It does not warm a cold heart… It does not build lost trust… It does not instill a commitment to compromise and/or make your marriage and partners need the number one priority.

That all comes from within, a conscious decision to give and receive equally. Some have that ability, some simply do not.

“Getting it” does not take into consideration things like emotional insecurity, alcohol/drug addiction, medications, or life’s natural cycles. Menopause, midlife crisis, empty nest, age, and health just to name a few.

It does not take into consideration that some husbands simply do not deserve it, a selfish jerk, an a$$ hole, insecure, controlling, manipulative, give her nothing schmuck. I understand that the OP describes that this husband has done what he can to be a good husband. But,Do all husbands “get it”?

That being said, with all due respect, “getting it” sounds logical. But sense when does logic have anything to do with a mutually happy marriage?


> "Commitment is what turns promise into reality."
> If both partners are not truly committed to working things out and trying their best to do what their partner needs, then just understanding still gets you nowhere if you aren't truly committed to making a change.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Sawney Beane said:


> Back before your Damascene moment, if he had asserted his needs, would you have done anything different, or tried to understand? You've said you were pretty indifferent about sex back then. Before your awakening, would you have been understanding / accomodating, or dismissive?
> 
> Just asking...


 I can only speculate in hindsite, can't I. I can tell you what I am not...I am not the type of woman to run & hide, give the silent treatment , throw things back in your face and live with resentment of any sort, I want honest communcation , feelings and emotions on the table from my spouse. I am not against a little conflict either, it doesn't shatter me. Why he didn't go there with me....He had me on some kind of pedestol from early on and felt he loved me more than I loved him, like rocking the boat would have me pick up and leave him. To that, I said... "are you crazy?"!! Maybe I am guilty of not showing enough love -but for him, love was expressed in that very sexual desire -where my repressiveness only masked what I was capable of in our marriage. 

My husband is not Mr Alpha confidence, but yet, he needed some of that to assert himself in these ways, it could have only helped us. I realize many other women might react with resentment for pushing. I do not believe I am this type of women, I might have faught with him -but it would have spured a "resolution" for us both, I always wanted his happiness-as well as mine. 

I ALWAYS had a healthy sex drive-been masterbating since I was 12 yrs old - after so many days, I would chase him down cause I "needed" it. I just didn't THINK about it as much inbetween those heavenly moments under the sheets together. 

My husband had ALOT to work with -with me. He was just too passive in revving me up, pursuing is not something he does well. A book in my hands intimidated him, he would just roll over sometimes, he needed some subtle hint I was *into him. * I think I would have enjoyed some flirting, teasing, some wrestling me down, a little aggressiveness. It was not his way. He was a silent sensual toucher only. 

Yes, I wholeheartity believe I would have cared and cared deeply- had he opened his heart & soul to me, I believe I would have been moved, not threw him under the bus. I never kept mine from him, he has saw me at my worst and loved me through it all. How could I not give that back to him in his time of need. I am not that cruel. 

But there is one exception, when I couldn't conceive after years of trying, I was so consumed with scheduling sex , and not wasting his sperm or diminishing it too much- I was on a mission to get pregnant & nothing else in life mattered to me. This is likely what set him on the coarse of feeling rejected. I was a basketcase then-it really had nothing to do with him -it was all me being OBSESSED. I regret this so much now!! 

BUt once that time had passed, the babies started coming, one after the other, he had 12 good years before my Awakening to take advantage of these things . I was never the "overly tired" Mom either, I was however, so overwhelmed with thankfulness, my mind was consumed on the kids ! But time could have easily been made and the energy for loving was always there. 

If I compared what I Have done to SPICE our sex life up in 8 months -to what he has tried in 19 yrs of marraige -- Sadly, one might think he was gay, and me a HORNDOG addict. 

With very little being tried, I feel he failed himself , and us. I have never resented my husband, this was about the closest. I know saying these things, many of you men are tempted to judge me, but seriously , most men are not as passive as my dear husband was . .....How many of you have NEVER raised your voice or had 1 fight over lack of sex?? Any among you? The most my husbands has done is ..... joke about me being a nun on occasion to our guy friend and get grouchy with the kids (never me), and once let me know he wanted to "hold me more at night" -not a word was spoken about love making or sex, and stupid me didn't get it that time either -feeling he meant "sleep" cause he was so vague about it. 

Shouldn't whomever is feeling it MORE so --be that "creative force" to enlighten, communicate, trying different things to arouse the other -not giving up ? Mine sure paid off for us. Heck, I even caused him performance pressure and helped him overcome that ! I would climb a mountain to turn him on, but he never went that far for me. Though I know he loves me! -just too self-less


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

RDJ said:


> I have been pondering this one for a while now. I can see where the OP’s thoughts may be logical.
> 
> Certainly there may be times where a woman just doesn’t “get it” Hearing it from her husband may allow her to “get it” but it certainly does not mean that once she “gets it” that she has the desire, knowledge, or ability to do anything with it.


Like they say, most people never read the instructions. Some read the instructions but don't understand them. Some read, understand and then ignore the instructions. Unless you read, understand and _decide to follow _the instructions, understanding them doesn't get any further than the person who doesn't bother reading them at all.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I can only speculate in hindsite, can't I.


Of course, but your opinion is valued



> I can tell you what I am not...I am not the type of woman to run & hide, give the silent treatment , throw things back in your face and live with resentment of any sort, I want honest communcation , feelings and emotions on the table from my spouse. I am not against a little conflict either, it doesn't shatter me. Why he didn't go there with me....He had me on some kind of pedestol from early on and felt he loved me more than I loved him, like rocking the boat would have me pick up and leave him. To that, I said... "are you crazy?"!! Maybe I am guilty of not showing enough love -but for him, love was expressed in that very sexual desire -where my repressiveness only masked what I was capable of in our marriage.


Maybe he read but didn't understand, or read, understood but ignored the instructions?



> My husband is not Mr Alpha confidence, but yet, he needed some of that to assert himself in these ways, it could have only helped us.


1 Just as your Damascene moment came from within you, hos would have had to have come from within him. 

2 The idea of alpha-ing up, and that it actually helps in marriages isn't really mainstream even now. The chances of finding that out by accident if you'd never done it? Low, I'd say.


> I realize many other women might react with resentment for pushing. I do not believe I am this type of women, I might have faught with him -but it would have spured a "resolution" for us both, I always wanted his happiness-as well as mine.


See it from his side: he can do something that he has absolutely no idea whatsoever will improve his sex live but he has a fairly good idea might cause resentment. Based on what he knows, it's a "can fail, can't succeed" plan. Why would any sane man do it? 



> I ALWAYS had a healthy sex drive-been masterbating since I was 12 yrs old - after so many days, I would chase him down cause I "needed" it. I just didn't THINK about it as much inbetween those heavenly moments under the sheets together.


Again, he perhaps thought that he ought to leave well enough alone, or "quit while he's ahead". He probably had friends who had never, ever been chased by their wives for sex at any time, and the fact that he was getting chased led him to think he was on a winner!



> My husband had ALOT to work with -with me. He was just too passive in revving me up, pursuing is not something he does well. A book in my hands intimidated him, he would just roll over sometimes, he needed some subtle hint I was *into him. * I think I would have enjoyed some flirting, teasing, some wrestling me down, a little aggressiveness. It was not his way. He was a silent sensual toucher only.


, Other than a Damascene moment, how would he have known that wrestling and aggression would have worked? It would have run contrary to every bit of information coming to him. Men don't do subtle hints



> Yes, I wholeheartity believe I would have cared and cared deeply- had he opened his heart & soul to me, I believe I would have been moved, not threw him under the bus. I never kept mine from him, he has saw me at my worst and loved me through it all. How could I not give that back to him in his time of need. I am not that cruel.
> 
> Shouldn't whomever is feeling it MORE so --be that "creative force" to enlighten, communicate, trying different things to arouse the other -not giving up ? Mine sure paid off for us. Heck, I even caused him performance pressure and helped him overcome that ! I would climb a mountain to turn him on, but he never went that far for me. Though I know he loves me! -just too self-less


I think you can only enlighten, communicate with or try to arouse someone who is willing to be enlightened, communicated with or turn on. You can make yourself heard, but you can't _make_ the other person_ listen_. 

The fact that you honestly believe that had your husband come to you and pushed harder for more sex, you would have met him, should be made absolutely clear to anyone who feels it won't work. That is, if _both_ partners want to, it *can* happen.

But equally, if both partners don't, one alone can't make it happen.


----------



## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Gaylord said:


> Here is something for you to consider... If you feel that subject matter is not applicable to your situation please disregard.


+1

Thank You. This was useful and relevant to my marriage. It hit some of the issues that have impacted my marriage. I think this dynamic is fairly common, but* obviously* it doesn't apply to every marriage. I think it's ironic how defensive some of the responses are to your post. It reminds me how damaged one can become after being hurt by someone.


----------



## annagarret (Jun 12, 2011)

yes I definately get it. Men need and want sex and closeness just like they need water, food and air. I didn't always realize this. the first 7 yrs of our marriage was based on trying to get my needs filled. My husband is very very loving and generous to begin with. After much thought and prayer I realized I seriously shortchanged him. I will never refuse him now and we have sex atleast every other day if not every day. As his wife it is my moral obligation to lovingly and willingly make love to him. only great things have come from this.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

annagarret said:


> yes I definately get it. Men need and want sex and closeness just like they need water, food and air. I didn't always realize this. the first 7 yrs of our marriage was based on trying to get my needs filled. My husband is very very loving and generous to begin with. After much thought and prayer I realized I seriously shortchanged him. I will never refuse him now and we have sex atleast every other day if not every day. As his wife it is my moral obligation to lovingly and willingly make love to him. only great things have come from this.


Anne what made you change? I thought that sex was just orgasms and fun for men. I had no idea that when a man falls in love that sex is a bonding loving experience. I had no idea that sexual starvation by a wife had a negative emotional effect and that his interprets the refusal as a sign that he is not loved. Only found out when I read books and forums. I was so surprised - I finally asked my husband and he confirmed the truth of it. He said he thought I knew! 

I don't know why I did not know but I think it is because pop culture presents all men as teenaged horny boys. Some men never mature but most get past the sex for sex sake stage somewhere along the line.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barbieDoll (Jul 7, 2011)

What about us women who are living the exact opposite of what you're describing?

I know that I am not alone when I say that I have a high libido where my husband used to. Even the fact that we are trying to conceive isn't helping me to get any either. I often initiate, role play, wear sexy things, tease him, jump him where ever I can, wake him up by "playing" and 9/10 times, I am shot down, left to pick up my bruised ego. I've begun to make "serious" jokes by saying that I hear "NO" too often that he's caught on. Now I hear: maybe later, I'm busy. It doesn't work that way give me some time, or after this show. This also is the same as saying "NO" except now he's gotten creative.

You are painting us all with same brush never stopping to think that there are some of us who would love to have a husband who ravishes them from time to time. We hold hands, I do things with him that he enjoys, I give him the space he asks for, he is free to do as he pleases and I am left to please myself. 

So please, before you say that we don't get it, consider that neither do some men. And like another poster said, it's a double edged sword for us: sex makes us feel wanted, loved and desirable as well as happy. By NOT having sex, we feel undesired and unwanted...which doesn't help us to initiate things. Why the heck would I want to initiate things with you if you can't even be bothered to move from the couch?

Add to that the knowledge that MOST men would kill to have a wife with the sex drive that I do just kills me. Twice a week? Sure! Every day? OMG yes please! Twice in a day? I'd be in heaven.

So when a wife isn't into sex, it's such a sad thing because it's the wife's duty to fulfill all of her husband's needs. But when a husband withholds sex from his wife...wait..society hasn't considered this one yet...


----------



## Gaylord (Oct 8, 2011)

I was in my doctor's waiting room and just so happened to read an article in The Grapevine Magazine about "The Irritable Male Syndrome." It talked about how some men can take things out on their children by getting very angry at them and begin to bring their confidence down. How they degrade their wives about their weight and appearance and would call then names. It also said that the husband would keep saying that everything was usually his wife's fault. 

Then the article started to talk about how men can be inherently more insecure than women, though you wouldn't know it by the way men posture their self-sufficiency. It began to talk about considering all of the facts about male vulnerability.

Male vulnerability and our need to act like men can be deadly. The article pointed out that, "The male has paid a heavy price for his masculine 'privilege' and power. He is out of touch with his emotions and his body. He is playing by the rules of the male game plan and with lemming-like purpose he is destroying himself-emotionally, psychologically, and physically."

It stated that what women need to know about males is that they long to be touched, loved, and nurtured, but they are afraid of it as well. Why is that? A number of studies show that mothers talk to, cuddle, and breast feed male infants significantly less than female infants. So boys experience a nurturing deficit from the very beginning and long to make up for what they didn't get. However, as boys get older we are taught to be tough and not to need the "tender loving care" that most girls more often get from their parents, relatives, and friends. These conflicting desires create a huge ambivalence inside most men. Inside we know we need extra nurturing. But we are told that it isn't manly to need it. If we act too "needy," we will be rejected by the very women who long to get nurtured by. Men often find themselves in a catch 22 so to speak.

The next thing women need to know about men is that they have an unconscious compulsion to get their spouse to give them the "mothering" they missed growing up. According to John W. Travis, M.D., author of Why Men Leave, "It's no surprise, then, that most of the unbonded boys in our culture grow into men who spend a good deal of their lives unconsciously seeking a mommy figure to provide them with the nurturing they were denied as infants/children."

Men may do all right early on in a relationship when a lot of focus is on them and their needs. They may appear to be "perfect gentlemen" giving the woman all the signs of love she needs. In fact, they will give her the things they know will get them the love and care they desperately need.

However, as the relationship matures and children are born and grow up, men increasingly lose their special position with the woman. As she matures, she expresses more of her own needs. Work and other demands make her less available. A man may initially compensate for the loss by getting involved with work, hobbies, hanging out with his friends, etc... but deep inside a time-bomb is ticking. One little loss, disappointment, or threat to his male stability and the whole house of cards begins to fall.

Another thing according to the article is that women need to understand that no matter how much a woman gives to the man, it will never be enough. But even he doesn't realize this. The love of a good woman can never make up for the losses a man suffered growing up. He believes that she could, would, and must give him what he needs. If she doesn't, his love suddenly can begin to turn from disappointment to hate. Is this making sense?

From her perspective, her wonderful, loving mate has suddenly gone from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde, from Mr. Nice to Mr. Mean. From his perspective, all the love and nurture he was promised when he met and married this woman, has systematically been taken away from him. He feels he's been set up and betrayed.

In his mind he deserved to be treated special, that his needs are more important than anyone else's. Unconsciously he believes that his spouse has promised to take care of him and now she's abandoning him. At this stage he may become violently angry, jealous, or withdrawn. He may see his children as competitors for his spouse's affections and criticize them for real or imagined transgressions. Outwardly he appears mean and controlling. Inwardly is in a panic. He's like an infant who has lost his mommy and he thinks he will die.

Most men don't start abandoning their wives' for the reasons a woman may think (or they) think. They are not all of a sudden checking out because they are not "in love" with their wife like they used to be, or because they're trying to "find themselves," or "need their space," or for the endless transgressions they may accuse their wife of perpetuating. These may be secondary reasons. But the primary reason men may leave a relationship is that they are overwhelmed with shame. They may feel ashamed that they feel so needy for love and nurture. They can feel ashamed that they are acting in hurtful ways towards those they love.

They feel ashamed of the rage that engulfs them. And most deeply, they feel ashamed for feeling ashamed over things that seem so trivial on the surface (I'm leaving because I don't feel the romantic attraction I did when we met 30 years ago?). They have built their manhood (and the hoped for love and nurture they thought it would bring them) on being clear, strong and decisive. Now they feel clouded, weak, and ambivalent. The very foundation of their existence seems to be crumbling under them.

They feel they need to leave the relationship to keep the core of their identity from being destroyed. They feel they need to leave the relationship to keep from destroying the people they love the most. In their state of mind, leaving is the most kind and loving thing they can do to protect their spouse and children from the rage that is building up inside. They leave because they feel the long repressed childhood traumas coming to the surface, which many men would rather die than confront.

So, given all of this "secret" knowledge, what can a woman do?

1. Let this sink in for awhile.

2. Have compassion for yourself.

3. Have compassion for the man.

4. Reread this thread.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Sawney Beane said:


> I think you can only enlighten, communicate with or try to arouse someone who is willing to be enlightened, communicated with or turn on. You can make yourself heard, but you can't _make_ the other person_ listen_.
> 
> The fact that you honestly believe that had your husband come to you and pushed harder for more sex, you would have met him, should be made absolutely clear to anyone who feels it won't work. That is, if _both_ partners want to, it *can* happen.
> 
> But equally, if both partners don't, one alone can't make it happen.


Sawney, you like to pick apart my posts, it has been very helpful in the past, most especially in 1 instance for me -- about ME not verbally expressing how much I wanted to take care of him the ONE and only time he asked me too -for a hand job, while I was complaining He never told me how much he loved being woke up in the middle of the night for sex - when I was in the mood. 

Not sure what you are trying to say here ?? I agree, both need to want it -- especially for my husband, that is needed somehow-from me. What I was lacking is something I learned early on here by MEM that all that is needed is for one to be *WILLING to be put in the mood *--- I could have so eaily given him that -had I had more of an education about the dynamics of sex! WHEN my husbadn did pursue and starting touching, 95% of the time, he got what he wanted. BUt other times he just let it go , let me continue doing whatever I was doing -silently putting himself down. And me oblivious to his wanting. 



> Other than a Damascene moment, how would he have known that wrestling and aggression would have worked? It would have run contrary to every bit of information coming to him. Men don't do subtle hints


 He should have tried anything and everything, anyway, he could have learend some things from the romance novles that he knew turned me on, it was not like those characters were doing the woman's dishes . He did not do enough erotic research. When you are teh sufferer, you need to open the lines of communication and assert yourself somehow, if you don't do this, then you need to expericment more options of turning the wife on. This I believe. What if I tool his attitude during my sexual high- we'd still be where we was. I feel he could have tried harder, maybe asked me . Why so silent? I was his wife! Talk to me. 

and..... this....


> Again, he perhaps thought that he ought to leave well enough alone, or "quit while he's ahead". He probably had friends who had never, ever been chased by their wives for sex at any time, and the fact that he was getting chased led him to think he was on a winner!


 ...YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT on this part. He used to hear them rant at work, still does , very very commonplace, so yeah, he didn't complain too much, plus he is extra patient anyway (unlike myself of coarse!). 

Thank you for the dissection of what I say -I enjoy it .


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Sawney, you like to pick apart my posts,


Not just yours...


> it has been very helpful in the past, most especially in 1 instance for me --


Thank you! 


> about ME not verbally expressing how much I wanted to take care of him the ONE and only time he asked me too -for a hand job, while I was complaining He never told me how much he loved being woke up in the middle of the night for sex - when I was in the mood.
> 
> Not sure what you are trying to say here ??
> 
> ...


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> Because he didn't know, and feared being shot down in flames or getting a "I knew you were like that! I'm going home to my mother!" speech.


 I just want to say, I would never act like this -going home to Mother, Hell NO ! Nor Step Mother - my upbringing sucked ! HE was my life . I don't get offened and sulk , when I whine it is generally cause I can't get what I personally want , but I wouldn't whine about what someone else wanted....Him pursuing me to choose Physical pleasure over a BOOK -is surely NOT something I would have whined about, very very easy to accomondate. 



> No man is going to read those things. Sorry. There's research and there's that Equally though, there might have been something that you could have learned from - it's a two-way street


 He did look something up on the net once, it didn't help at all, he read the wrong article -If he read somethng about being assertive with his needs, he would have been much better off. 



> THIS is where knowledge of the dynamics, understanding one another comes in - neither of you felt able to ask! You either didn't know that it was worth trying or percieved a risk in doing so


 As close as we was emotionally, Yep, you got it - we missed it !! Sex is the ONLY thing we did not talk about openly to each other. I was repressed, he was Passive. I was more the OPEN force-always - but NOT in this one little utterly important area, if only I was asking the RIGHT questions back then ! 

As hard as it may be for others to comprehend this, it was OUR truth. Our stupidity, we missed each other pathetically. 



> in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. If you feel that you're well off you don't upset the applecart. He probably went around with the biggest, smuggest internal smile when he heard those men saying what they got to look forward to. On that evidence, why would he even suspect it could get better


 You was absolutely on Target on this point about him not wanting to upset the apple cart, he knew he had a wife who still "came on to him ", he was getting it "enough" to not go crazy, he always heard the guys are work ranting they NEVER get it ..... I told him what you said here.... he perked up with a smile --that YES, he did feel exactly that, he has always said to me, that even when things were DRY, he was still happy.... (though I don't think it would have hurt if he was a little more disgusted & outright showed it -I feel he would have been better off - I know this irriates you that I say this, but that is how I feel!- darn it !) ....

....so well done with the dissection- once again...Sawney Beane!


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I just want to say, I would never act like this -going home to Mother, Hell NO ! Nor Step Mother - my upbringing sucked ! HE was my life . I don't get offened and sulk , when I whine it is generally cause I can't get what I personally want , but I wouldn't whine about what someone else wanted....Him pursuing me to choose Physical pleasure over a BOOK -is surely NOT something I would have whined about, very very easy to accomondate.


OK, maybe the example is wrong, but don't get hung up in the semantics. Most men suggesting upping the tempo of him and his wife's sex live would hope that the answer would be something like "I thought you'd never ask!" followed by an hour of blinding physical oblivion. 

On the other hand he can see a lot of potential negatives: she starts to ask what has started this - does he see her as a poor sex partner? Has he been looking at porn or seeing other women? A polite "no, thank you" is probably not what he might expect in this case, but a potential screaming row followed by a semi-permanent sex drought might be. If he feels his sex life is at rock bottom, he might feel he has nothing to lose and go for it. On the other hand if his sex life is OK, or better than he believes a lot of his friends' sex lives are, he might see it as a bad gamble.



> He did look something up on the net once, it didn't help at all, he read the wrong article -If he read somethng about being assertive with his needs, he would have been much better off.


Assertiveness is over-rated. It only works on people who are prepared to give you what you want anyway. Assertively expressing your needs to a person who has no intention of meeting them won't make them change their mind. Assertiveness is predicated on the idea that everyone is reasonable. Well, that ain't the case.



> As close as we was emotionally, Yep, you got it - we missed it !! Sex is the ONLY thing we did not talk about openly to each other. I was repressed, he was Passive. I was more the OPEN force-always - but NOT in this one little utterly important area, if only I was asking the RIGHT questions back then !
> 
> As hard as it may be for others to comprehend this, it was OUR truth. Our stupidity, we missed each other pathetically.


Not stupidity, but ignorance. Stupidity is knowing the truth and still doing it wrong, ignorance is doing it wrong because you didn't know any better. Ignorance can be cured, stupid is for life.



> You was absolutely on Target on this point about him not wanting to upset the apple cart, he knew he had a wife who still "came on to him ", he was getting it "enough" to not go crazy, he always heard the guys are work ranting they NEVER get it ..... I told him what you said here.... he perked up with a smile --that YES, he did feel exactly that, he has always said to me, that even when things were DRY, he was still happy.... (though I don't think it would have hurt if he was a little more disgusted & outright showed it -I feel he would have been better off - I know this irriates you that I say this, but that is how I feel!- darn it !) ....


If it ain't broke, don't fix it! If he thought he was in the top 10% sexually among the men he knew, why would he risk it to get better? I can see your point, and your disappointment that he didn't, but based on all the evidence he saw, why would he risk what he had?


> ....so well done with the dissection- once again...Sawney Beane!


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Sawney Beane said:


> Assertiveness is over-rated. It only works on people who are prepared to give you what you want anyway. Assertively expressing your needs to a person who has no intention of meeting them won't make them change their mind. Assertiveness is predicated on the idea that everyone is reasonable. Well, that ain't the case.


 OK fine, you do have a point, I surely agree with you that some are not reasonable , you can lead them to water, but you cant make them drink it -- maybe if you threaten their life , and in sex, well, that would = *mercy sex *-which clearly would NOT be worth the hassle. 

I have NEVER engaged in mercy sex , not even once, in our marraige. I wouldn't accept it either. The only time I was not reasonable in our marraige about sex, and yes, there was a time..is when I was a full blown basketcase about getting pregnant after years of infertility. If I was HIM during that time, I would NOT have put up with ME -we would have been having some SERIOUS talks about accomondating MY needs. Being He is very different than me, much more patient than me, it is hard for me to relate to that kind of passiveness, which is another reason I didn't "get it " back then. 




> Not stupidity, but ignorance. Stupidity is knowing the truth and still doing it wrong, ignorance is doing it wrong because you didn't know any better. Ignorance can be cured, stupid is for life.


 Yes, ignorance, that is likely a better word, I may have to replace that when I speak in the future. 





> *I can see your point, and your disappointment that he didn't*, but based on all the evidence he saw, why would he risk what he had?


 WOW, never thought I would get that out of you !! You are a tough one! 

You want to hear the craziest thing about my husband... I asked him one day months ago -if he could go back in time and change some of the things he did- or in this case, didn't do - so he could have gained more sex -things like .....Letting me know he was not happy.... pushing away from me to get my attention... not being so loving (thermostat thing).... pretty much some of the MANNING UP stuff that I have learned about....

.... and he said he still would have just loved me like he did and be patient, and I just threw my hands up in the air and thought ... .. What on earth am I going to do with you...There is no hope!!! Sweet answer really --but yeah, just not in him to treat me badly in any way. He says we might not have the same kids, who knows, he is happy it equalled where we are NOW. I get MORE bent out of shape about what we missed , and I was satisfied that whole time -when he wasn't. Really strange I suppose. Related to my Mid Life crisis I believe. 

So best to just treat him right, cause he ain't never gonna tell me what for -he is too nice to do that, I ain't gonna change him.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> He should have tried anything and everything, anyway, he could have learend some things from the romance novles that he knew turned me on, it was not like those characters were doing the woman's dishes.





Sawney Beane said:


> No man is going to read those things. Sorry. There's research and there's that.


I'm a chronic insomniac and compulsive reader. I *have* read some of my wife's romance novels.

The novels I have read have universally been about the courtship phase of the relationship. The process of falling in love.

It's not that I don't like romance. --I do. 

It's not that I won't go to great lengths to help my wife ease into the 'mood.' --I always have.

..But if my wife expected me to revert back to the process of getting her to fall in love and convincing her to marry me all over again, I would probably be hurt by that inasmuch as the logical corollary would be that she no longer loves me.

Whether they consciously think about it and put it into words or not, I suspect that many men would view it this way.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> I'm a chronic insomniac and compulsive reader. I *have* read some of my wife's romance novels.


Did they help? 



> The novels I have read have universally been about the courtship phase of the relationship. The process of falling in love.
> 
> It's not that I don't like romance. --I do.
> 
> ...


Emph. mine. This might not be the message that women intend to send, but it is the message that might actually be received.


----------



## Gaylord (Oct 8, 2011)

To be fair there are times that a woman's needs are not being met so it becomes difficult for her to open up sexually. That is the case in too many marriages. A woman needs to feel emotionally intimate before she wants physical intimacy whereas some men may only feel emotional intimacy through the act of physical intimacy. 

But could it be that if the woman had been properly seduced, and all of her emotional needs fully met, is it possable that she was simply not truly understanding of her husband's heart felt motivation/desire/needs?

Think about this men. What is wrong with lovingly and patiently explaining our needs to our wives? Many men didn't get it when it came to understanding their wife's emotional needs.... Thank God we all here have had the opportunity to read and digest allot if helpful information here at "Talk About Marriage." Many people have helped us learn and understand better the whole process and women better... Did all you men have all the answers about a womans emotional needs prior to reading those post? I sure didn't... and I am still learning. It takes a long time to sink into our brains... And, _Do you think our wives are going to figure it out any quicker than we did?_ 

*Can we just A.S.S.U.M.E. that ALL women out there fully understand what physical intimacy means to their husbands? * 

How can we assume that most women really do "get it" and understand us men? The fact is that many of the men on this forum are here only because "way back when" we didn't have a clue where to begin... either. We wanted to meet our wifes needs but didn't think what they thought was important was important enough... We didn't do what we should have been doing *(for a LONG time)* not because we were "not caring" but because we couldn't "understand." We wanted too but we just didn't get it...yet. We kept screwing up and getting further behind... As a result, some wives' became distant, some wife left, some wives had affairs etc.

And now in reverse, can we "expect" a woman to start meeting our needs simply because we are "finally" meeting her emotional needs... ??? This sounds very dang logical... Doesn't it? It's only natural. Why wouldn't they start meeting our needs after a few months? 

But, is it really practical to assume that they would even be capable of truly meeting our needs when in all probability they have not been as properly schooled in the art of understanding us MEN as we have become through our research and our current understanding of what women want/need?

Here is the point. If a woman truly understands my needs as well as I have tried to understand hers - Then I can't help but love her all the more and feel her love for me - When she trys to "show" me how much she loves me in return. 

My wife has clearly stated that she fully understands my individual emotional/physical needs and is committed (is into) making me feel as loved as I make her feel. 

There are allot of ways we make each other feel loved that are the same, but many of those ways are NOT the same. Not every man and woman will always want/desire the same thing at the same time. That's an important understanding to have as a couple. What sometimes makes a woman feel loved does not always work for a man and vise versa.


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

To start off, my wife and I have been together for 19 years. We have a 9 year old daughter.We just celebrated our 12th anniversay. Over the years, she has become my best and only friend. In 19 years, we may have spent a total of 5 nights apart. On most all levels we get along great.

When we met at 25 years, she was a virgin. I first thought that she was"saving" herself, so I never pushed sex. It took over a year before she let me"in" her. By that time, I was head over heels and didn't want to spend time away from her. She felt the same way. I soon realized that truly had no interest in sex. 

I would make her dinner often, buy her gifts and choclate, give her many massages to get her in the mood, Put rose petals on the bed. Write love messages on the bathroom mirror. Nothing got her in the mood

The sex never increased. three times a month was about it. I relieved myself the rest of the time. My wife knew that I did. I would say " I going upstairs to relieve myself" All she said to that was "OK".

I recently hit my mid life crisses and strated working out and getting healthy. I was never over weight. After a while women in my circle started to notice and compliment me more in a few short months than my wife did over 19 years. I feel desired by other women now when I never noticed it before. Along with that, working out and running greatly increased my libido. I made a decision that I wasn't going to relieve myself any more. For the past year my wife has been going through hell. 

One time we had sex every night for a week. Sex for her has always been painful but by the 6th night, she she was almost in tears. MY WIFE GETS IT. She is trying so hard to make me happy sexually that it hurts me. Whats the point if she doesn't enjoy it AT ALL. Not even oral. 

My wife is very beautiful and I tell her all the time. We get along so well when I am not expecting sex or when I get angry from lack of affection or sex. I do like to hold hand, hug, cuddle, with or without the sex. She never really wanted to even hold hands. We haven't said "I love you" in over a year now. I am already gone, it's just a matter of when. She is a homemaker and doesn't work. I don't want to stay together because of our daughter. At the same time, I want to always be a daily part of my daughters life. My wife and I are more like roommates who happen to have a child with some sex. Ive read so many marriage books and I know I am sensitive to my wife needs. According to the books that I read, I do many of the right things. Nothing seems to work though. Again my wife is wonderful in all other ways. She would be happy if we never had sex again. I am just at a loss with what to do


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> One time we had sex every night for a week. *Sex for her has always been painful *but by the 6th night, she she was almost in tears. MY WIFE GETS IT. She is trying so hard to make me happy sexually that it hurts me. Whats the point if she doesn't enjoy it AT ALL. Not even oral.


Hi Already Gone ~

You may want to consider starting your own thread so that you can get more replies to your specific issues.

But, the thing that jumps out to me is what I bolded. If sex physically hurts your wife, then she is going to have a hard time enjoying it. What is she doing to remedy this? Has she gone to a doctor for evaluation? If not, then sitting down and having a very frank discussion about this and getting her to see a doctor should be your first step. The next step would be to consider the both of you seeing a sex therapist (a counselor specially trained in sexual issues).

Best wishes.


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Hi Already Gone ~
> 
> You may want to consider starting your own thread so that you can get more replies to your specific issues.
> 
> ...


We have talked about a marriage counselor. I am a talker. I talk about it all the time with her.She has never even liked any PDA. Kissing in public.... She would never do that. As far as starting a new thread, my story seems familiar to many other threads and posts. Plus I new here. I want to earn it first.


----------



## Gaylord (Oct 8, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> We have talked about a marriage counselor. I am a talker. I talk about it all the time with her.She has never even liked any PDA. Kissing in public.... She would never do that. As far as starting a new thread, my story seems familiar to many other threads and posts. Plus I new here. I want to earn it first.



Already Gone,

First let me say, you have nothing at all to "earn" here... You should feel free to start a new thread and receive all the input you can. I also believe that "if" you are truly doing everything that you can as a good husband you can benefit from the advice *Enchantment* has given you. Especially the suggestion that your wife considers visiting her doctor for a complete evaluation as a first step. Then if she would be agreeable to the possibly seeing a sex therapist together with you (a counselor specially trained in sexual issues) it should prove to be a very sound and reasonable approach. Please don't give up...


----------



## mickeylover43 (Dec 1, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Shouldn't whomever is feeling it MORE so --be that "creative force" to enlighten, communicate, trying different things to arouse the other -not giving up ? ........I would climb a mountain to turn him on, but he never went that far for me. Though I know he loves me! -just too self-less


This is so true..... I once described my enthusiastic desires to a Marriage Councilor like this... I it would turn my wife on for me to stand on my head and suck a chocolate covered raspberry out of her belly button- I would find a way to do it! On the other hand my wife never showed any where near that amount internist ( or even ask the questions!) in fulling my needs or desires.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

CallaLily said:


> "Lucky is the woman whose husband not only understands her needs but tries to accommodate them."
> 
> I agree and also think it can work both ways.


Whilst I agree that there are differences between the genders, I don't think they're as great as some believe...

As a woman, I believe that physical intimacy is the cement that keeps a relationship whole and fulfulling, and I crave the connection that that brings. However, for the second time in my life I find myself in a relationship with a man who loves me deeply, but apparently has little need for any real physical intimacy.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Gaylord said:


> ...A number of studies show that mothers talk to, cuddle, and breast feed male infants significantly less than female infants. So boys experience a nurturing deficit from the very beginning and long to make up for what they didn't get. However, as boys get older we are taught to be tough and not to need the "tender loving care" that most girls more often get from their parents, relatives, and friends. These conflicting desires create a huge ambivalence inside most men. Inside we know we need extra nurturing. But we are told that it isn't manly to need it. If we act too "needy," we will be rejected by the very women who long to get nurtured by. Men often find themselves in a catch 22 so to speak...
> .


I tend to question the research of this article, because I doubt that any _normal_ mother would breastfeed an infant less simply because he is male. I also doubt that any well-adjusted mother would deprive her infant of her warmth and nurturing based on gender.

I can, however, see that_ society_ has a tendency to program boys from an early age to be tough and shun TLC - and this programming is more likely to come from their fathers, rather than their mothers.

A healthy, nurturing relationship with both parents is important for both genders, IMO, as a female who doesn't receive sufficient TLC from a father can grow up with a whole set of unmet needs, too.


----------



## Riven (May 4, 2012)

I read this article today, I didn't read all of the pages in between, but our MC keeps saying sex is very emotional for men, and I didn't get it whens he kept saying, this article explains what she was trying to say.


----------

