# My H needs 5 days away to "find himself". How do I proceed?



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

I've posted several posts about our issues, and they are basically small things that have added up over our 10 years of marriage and not confronting those issues. So, now it's all come to a head. My insecurity due to his lies and past EA, him feeling like my expectations are too high and that he can't ever do anything right, he's self-defeated and has no fight left due to the emotionally draining nature of all of this. Me feeling so uncertain and not knowing what's going to happen, because he can't say he wants to work on it. I hate floating. Things have been said that can't be taken back, you know the typical stuff. 

So, he tells me on V-day, as we're talking after I try to make it a fun, light, carefree day and he gets me a depressing card, that he has lost himself. He feels empty and lonely and confused. He's depressed. He's not himself at work, or with me, but he is still himself to the kids, he says. He can't figure out what to do about our marriage because he has lost himself. He apologizes, but still makes mistakes. I ask him what needs to be done for him to find himself. Well, he says he pictures himself in a log cabin, one with nature, just thinking and relaxing and escaping it all. I tell him we should make it happen, that I'll support this. Even though, I'm really the one that should be taking a freaking vacation! 

Almost the next day, he's made plans to go away, an hour north of us to some springs and a river, to just fish and "find himself". I told him that I'd support that, however I was scared. I'm afraid of him loving that freedom and peace and thinking life would be that way without me. He says I can't worry about that. He needs to worry about himself now. And he has to do that. Well, the days go on and we have some decent conversations. Then a semi-argument on Sunday night where he was out of line in the deception department. I told him I thought he should get 2 days and I get 2 days, he refused and said I could go the following weekend if I wanted. 

So, he's set to go tomorrow night after work. There's no stopping him. It just isn't fair. I told him I wanted to talk about it tonight. I know we'll fight, because I'm going to demand the truth about what happened on Sunday night. But do I call him? Text him? Ignore him? I don't know how to act or what's going on in his head. I'm afraid he'll come back and want a separation. But I'm also afraid that I might like this time apart. I'd really like for him to realize he needs to make some changes and say that he's committed to making those changes. But the chances of that are slim. Should I just be unavailable for the days he's gone? I was thinking I'd take my kids and go with a friend an hour away and have some theme park fun. Stay at a hotel and swim and just try to stay busy. I just don't know. It's all unfair. But I do need the break from this tension, too. Don't you wish you could fast forward in time and see what happens?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

The only thing I am having trouble understanding is how he is demanding the whole time for himself? Have you talked to him about okay, he can stay at the cabin, but the second half he needs to take the kids with him?

Honestly, if he is lying to you and just had an EA, I don't think this would be okay with me at all. 

Yeah, I have been looking for my fast forward button too, its sneaky cause I sure haven't found it yet LOL


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DawnD said:


> The only thing I am having trouble understanding is how he is demanding the whole time for himself? Have you talked to him about okay, he can stay at the cabin, but the second half he needs to take the kids with him?
> 
> Honestly, if he is lying to you and just had an EA, I don't think this would be okay with me at all.
> 
> Yeah, I have been looking for my fast forward button too, its sneaky cause I sure haven't found it yet LOL


He just says he needs that time with no distractions. The EA was 4 years ago. But there is this current uncomfortable situation on facebook with the ex gf (who lives 3,000 miles away). I wish he'd delete her. You are right, I'm totally uncomfortable with the time for himself. But at this point, I can only step back and see what happens.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

LonelyNLost said:


> He just says he needs that time with no distractions. The EA was 4 years ago. But there is this current uncomfortable situation on facebook with the ex gf (who lives 3,000 miles away). I wish he'd delete her. You are right, I'm totally uncomfortable with the time for himself. But at this point, I can only step back and see what happens.


I can get that, but 4 days seems excessive. I just wonder why he refused to split it, but I don't know if we'll ever understand that one. As for the offer for next weekend< TAKE IT> You need time too, and you need to know what you want out of your life, with or without him. You can do this, I know you can.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DawnD said:


> I can get that, but 4 days seems excessive. I just wonder why he refused to split it, but I don't know if we'll ever understand that one. As for the offer for next weekend< TAKE IT> You need time too, and you need to know what you want out of your life, with or without him. You can do this, I know you can.


It's actually kind of 5. He leaves tomorrow night and comes back Monday evening. Ugh.  I don't get a lot of things he does. I'm going to discuss some things tonight. I just need him to be aware of my state of mind, even if he won't share his. Next weekend is a local festival we always take the kids to. Maybe I'll go the weekend after. But I can't plan anything until I see what things are like when he comes back. I do need to figure me out. I appreciate your vote of confidence!


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

IMO, you need to not fight with him about it and let him go for 5 days. If you fight about it, he'll spend the 5 days mad about you/the fight.

He said he needs time and space to think. DON'T CROSS THAT. Let him go and figure out for himself what he wants.

Go later if you need to. He will understand that you are stressed and need time to.


Again, your H will probably decide the future of your marriage in the next 5 days. Give him space. Do not fight with him. Be as loving about it as you can be. No its not fair, but you can take time to yourself after he comes back.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

anx said:


> IMO, you need to not fight with him about it and let him go for 5 days. If you fight about it, he'll spend the 5 days mad about you/the fight.
> 
> He said he needs time and space to think. DON'T CROSS THAT. Let him go and figure out for himself what he wants.
> 
> ...


 Normally I would agree, but her H seems to be using the fact that he knows she wants to work it out as his own personal bargaining chip. That isn't in the best interest of the marriage. Time alone to think? Sure. Do you at least make sure its a reasonable amount of time and your spouse is okay with it? Yes, you do. You do not just up and disappear. Married with kids. You compromise to make sure everyone is okay with the situation, not exploit the fact you know your wife wants the marriage to work to get what you want.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Could I politely remind you of something? You are saying it's unfair and are all upset he's going to go for 5 days....but in real life, the fact of the matter is that he could decide today, right now, that he's done and he's moving out and he's gone forever. People choose to do that every day! He could be hit by a bus or have a heart attack today too--and be gone forever. There is absolutely, 100% no guarantee he'll "be there" the rest of this week, month or year! What took you decades to build can be undone in one day...today. 

But that is the way it is every, single day. 

I think somehow you've convinced yourself that he can't (or won't) consider the way you've treated him today or the things you've said today to try to control him, and decide "I think I've had enough. I'm not returning anymore." Likewise, if he's using this "I think I've had enough. I'm not returning anymore.' as a controlling move of his own...nothing will take the wind out of his sails faster than: "Okay, have a good time. Don't the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out." You're supposed to feed his need by begging and needing him to stay--then he has an excuse to get all mad and say "SEE!! Look at how you push me into behaving badly!" Just... stop. Accept it--today may be the day he is gone. 

[And by the way, just so there's no confusion, I'm not blaming you or pointing a finger or saying that you are emotionally abusing him, but what I am doing is grabbing you by the emotional shoulders and shaking you because EVERY DAY could be the last.]

He could be irrational and just decide for no reason that he's done--and that would in no way "end" his parental relationship with the children. Just YOU. So I would very strongly, and politely, encourage you to remember that the fact of the matter is that he could leave for these 5 days and think back on all the kind things you've done and said recently and miss you...or he could leave for these 5 days and think back on all the fights and hurtful things you've said and be relieved. And the fact is that you DO have the ability to control yourself! Even if he chooses to be a complete jerk and b*tthead--you can choose to be the woman you are inside. So you want him to come back? Make home something he looks forward to! 

And again, I'm not saying that you let him trample your boundaries and get away with treating you badly...and have no consequence. That's different. But you tell me: if you got 5 days off right now, with no pressure of caring for kids and 5 whole days of no yelling or hurt from him, wouldn't it feel GREAT!? Would you want to go back to having no help and being yelled at and hurt by his words? Heck no! You'd want to figure out a way to get away, right? 

So let him go and do his own thing. Let him decide for himself what he is and is not going to do, and for once take your hands off HIS steering wheel, and while he's gone take the whole 5 days to look at YOUR steering wheel. Are you the kind of woman you want to be? When my exH was being abusive, I looked at myself and realized I was being abusive right back at him...and that was NOT who I wanted to be! I wanted to be assertive, and have healthy boundaries, but stand for them in a HEALTHY way not an abusive way. So I had to stop looking at him and take a minute to look at whether or not I was being who *I* wanted to be. If you look at yourself and you find you aren't being the kind of woman you want to be, then kind of ignore him and let him be--and start to figure out how you can start becoming who you WANT to be and who you are intended to be. Then live every day as if this may well be the last day you have him around. That way if he goes, you can have him leave in good conscience knowing you behaved WELL and did not return tit-for-tat.

Likewise, when my exH was being abusive, and I was being abusive back, he frequently used that as he "excuse" for making a bad choice or to blame me for his issues. Like I said above: "SEE! YOU are the one with the anger issue and rage. YOU are driving me away I don't want to go" (that kind of stuff). Well...when I began to realize that what HE does and what I do are independent of each other--that he can choose to be a jerk all he wants but I don't have to choose that or even choose to respond to it--well then that left him FLAT! He would start a fight; I'd be aware he was starting his old pattern of picking-picking-picking until I got angry; and I'd stand up and say (as I walked out): "I choose to not participate in this anymore. I'm going to another room." ...and I'd just leave him there! He had no reason then to rage or blame me, because I didn't DO anything and he knew it and I knew it! 

So again I encourage you to stop. Just STOP. If he wants to and is determined to go, let him go and do not beg, cry or demand anything. You can state, "For the record I am not okay with this and I request you get 2 days and I get 2 days...but for the record I also realize that you will make up your own mind and I can not control you. I also have newly realized that I can make up my OWN mind...and I can control ME. And I will." 

The end.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Dawn, you're talking as if she can 'make' him do something. 

He's on the edge of leaving her for good. Nothing they've done so far has fixed their relationship. The only thing that's going to work now is to be completely honest with each other. And treat each other as equals. And let each other make their decisions.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Take the kids and do the swimming and theme park thing, and tell him how excited you are for this little break and you hope he has as good a time as you do. Then, let it go! What good does it do when he's made his decision and clearly does not agree with what you think about the situation. Take the next weekend for your self, no matter what he decides--and be sure to let him know before he leaves that you plan to go the next weekend. And do it, too. No matter what HE decides, you can choose to live a full and happy life. Realizing that--really internalizing it--is the most freeing and empowering realization you can have. Look for that--search inside yourself for "Who do I want to be? What do I want to do for the rest of my life?" and make these questions about you, not about kids or spouse--later, you can figure out how to make YOUR dream work when you have kids and, if it works out, a husband. But just knowing you are committing to finding happiness for yourself will make HIS decision seem a lot less significant--because whatever he decides, you will know that you will find a way to be whole and happy. What can you see yourself doing happily, all on your own? That's the place you want to aim for, and then working it into the realities of your life is the later challenge. Good luck, and enjoy the time away with your kids this weekend, and alone the next. 

By the way, would you choose a cabin in nature for yourself, or a nice hotel? You don't have to do the exact same thing he does, you know. Your time alone should be in a place you want to be alone, and if involves books and movies and nice desserts each day, then do that!


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

turnera said:


> Dawn, you're talking as if she can 'make' him do something.
> 
> He's on the edge of leaving her for good. Nothing they've done so far has fixed their relationship. The only thing that's going to work now is to be completely honest with each other. And treat each other as equals. And let each other make their decisions.


Not at all. I am talking as in you don't just hand the whole bag to one party and ditch for an amount of time, unless its agreed upon. If you do, then there isn't much good to come of it anyway. She has been posting about him still lying to her, so I do question his intentions.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh, me too. And I agree she should be doing for herself, too. In fact, by her going out and having fun, he'll start to worry about if SHE wants to leave HIM.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

turnera said:


> Oh, me too. And I agree she should be doing for herself, too. In fact, by her going out and having fun, he'll start to worry about if SHE wants to leave HIM.


YES YES YES> I think that is what is playing a huge part in this, is that he KNOWS she won't leave him, or at least he THINKS he KNOWS. Exactly why I want her to take time and consider if behaviors do not change, if she still wants him. (That and honestly, her H is giving me flashbacks of my H and not in a good way LOL).


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Honestly I think he's meeting up with the ex GF. Sorry.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks, everyone. All good points. I did tell him that I understood he needed to find himself and I support that. I do question all of his intentions, and I know the negativity and tension around here isn't good. He does say things like, "You try to be positive and give and I don't reciprocate." And he acknowledges that he hasn't fulfilled his part of the agreement. I've been very calm and collected for the past 10 days. No arguing, even when he tried to start one. He hasn't asked what I'm doing, and really haven't discussed the next 5 days. I know I can't control what he does or decides, but he did acknowledge that he needs to figure out a way to be a better person. That's a start, right? 

I do fear that maybe I'll decide that I'm better off without him. I do think he realizes that. He's actually said that he feels so awful about hurting me, and he doubts his ability to stop doing that, and thinks I might be better off without him. I don't doubt he cares about me. I just don't think he knows how to be less selfish in regards to honesty and his actions. So wish me luck!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Syrum said:


> Honestly I think he's meeting up with the ex GF. Sorry.


She lives 3,000 miles away. And I have to reiterate that I DO trust him and don't think he's cheating on me. He just doesn't have the best judgement, hides things, and then it looks a million times worse. So it's an honesty, openness, and communication issue.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

> You try to be positive and give and I don't reciprocate." And he acknowledges that he hasn't fulfilled his part of the agreement.





> he did acknowledge that he needs to figure out a way to be a better person. That's a start, right?


Those are both very good signs. This stuff takes a lot of time, and trust is hard to build and keep on both sides. Best of luck in the next 5 days and with the outcome of this 5 day vacation!!!!!!


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> She lives 3,000 miles away. And I have to reiterate that I DO trust him and don't think he's cheating on me. He just doesn't have the best judgement, hides things, and then it looks a million times worse. So it's an honesty, openness, and communication issue.


That wouldn't be a barrier, I bet she is meeting him there. The stuff he is saying is typical of someone who's having an affair or going to have one and has the guilts, is essentially torn.

Do you know exactly where he is going? is he going to be contactable at all times (which is very reasonable)? I am betting my life that if you showed up she would be there. I'm sorry to be blunt, but I'm just being honest.

I just don't think people should be ale to opt in and out of their marriage at any time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Honestly, the ONE thing you two need most is a professional therapist.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

I doubt he is cheating or that contacting him during this is a good idea from what I know of the rest of your story.

My wife needed space to reconnect, and if I had disrupted that, I don't think we would be together and happy now.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Well, we did have a nice, long, semi-productive conversation last night. Just talked about where both of us were, and he said some things he hadn't, and it was painful to watch him struggle to communicate like that. He really hates to see me cry, and so you can see the internal struggle he has with saying what's on his mind. I do believe he cares for me and loves me very much, but just doesn't know what to do. It ended with him holding me like he hasn't for awhile and being more intimate than we have in awhile. 




Syrum said:


> That wouldn't be a barrier, I bet she is meeting him there. The stuff he is saying is typical of someone who's having an affair or going to have one and has the guilts, is essentially torn.
> 
> Do you know exactly where he is going? is he going to be contactable at all times (which is very reasonable)? I am betting my life that if you showed up she would be there. I'm sorry to be blunt, but I'm just being honest.
> 
> I just don't think people should be ale to opt in and out of their marriage at any time.


He isn't meeting her. He is going to be reachable. In fact, he said he wanted to talk to me because he couldn't go 5 days without hearing from the kids or I. It's not about guilt, it's more about the situation tearing him apart. He's my husband, I know him, and I have a feel for the situation.



anx said:


> I doubt he is cheating or that contacting him during this is a good idea from what I know of the rest of your story.
> 
> My wife needed space to reconnect, and if I had disrupted that, I don't think we would be together and happy now.


I'm not going to pursue contact with him or be all up in his face while he's gone. But I will answer his calls. He did say he wanted to talk and text with me while gone. He also expressed some sadness at the fact that we're going to go to a theme park and do "family things" without a member of the family. But he knows he needs to go clear his head. He admitted that he's checked out of the marriage, not on purpose, but in self preservation. He needs to figure out how to check back in by finding some strength and figuring out what's best. He acknowledged that he could go away and it not help. But he does want us to be happy again, he's just torn at how that can happen. 

He's leaving today before I get home from work. He got up and gave me hugs and melted a little bit of the cold exterior between last night and this morning. So, it's me and my thoughts for the next 5 days. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for the words of encouragement.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

He's confusing me...what exactly would he be protecting himself from (the self preservation remark)? And this whole bit about not being sure if he can stop hurting you...I guess I'm just left wondering if he's using that as some kind of excuse.

At any rate, I hope you enjoy your time at the festival, and YOUR time alone. I'd make damned sure I took that time.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

major misfit said:


> He's confusing me...what exactly would he be protecting himself from (the self preservation remark)? And this whole bit about not being sure if he can stop hurting you...I guess I'm just left wondering if he's using that as some kind of excuse.
> 
> At any rate, I hope you enjoy your time at the festival, and YOUR time alone. I'd make damned sure I took that time.


He's very much a pessimist, inherited from his father. Doesn't like to admit defeat, and will just avoid any risk of failure (as in the unknown). So, he feels that he's protecting himself from feeling the failure. We started really vocalizing our problems in November. By Christmas I was ready for a solution and got his mom to come watch the kids so we could talk. It was an emotional conversation for us and he poured his heart out about how he felt like he messed things up 4 years ago and things will never be the same. He really takes a lot of blame. And the thing is, communication is the issue. So he came around after that talked and we had a great month of bliss. Things were improving, we were falling in love. But when he took that trip out of town, my insecurities rose, and everything fell from there. He took this fall really hard. He feels like he took a huge risk in trying to work on us and it was good but then since he jumped with no parachute, as he says, the fall really hurt. And he's afraid to do that again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Men have to succeed. Relationships are like the Great Unknown to them - they just don't understand how to make it work, how to succeed at it, so the longer you're married, the worse the problems seem, the more complicated, and he likely feels like there's no way in hell he can ever fix the relationship so that YOU are happy and get what you want, HE is happy and gets what he wants, so...life is a failure.

IMO, what you two really need is a professional who knows how to HELP you guys weed through the issues and get on the same SIDE.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

He loves and is o.k. with his kids, but he doesn't want to take them. I am sorry to say that I am feeling that he needs to get away from any and all distractions. When I go places, I take any and all of my kids with me, except when I need my "quite time".



> anx
> My wife needed space to reconnect, and if I had disrupted that, I don't think we would be together and happy now.


:iagree:
Take it from me. Don't pressure him into a time limit, or to work on your problems too soon. I found out the hard way that you cannot force time or change onto a person. I did this to my wife, and we ended up separated. Love and patience are your best tools. Use them wisely, please do not try to force the issue.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> Men have to succeed. Relationships are like the Great Unknown to them - they just don't understand how to make it work, how to succeed at it, so the longer you're married, the worse the problems seem, the more complicated, and he likely feels like there's no way in hell he can ever fix the relationship so that YOU are happy and get what you want, HE is happy and gets what he wants, so...life is a failure.
> 
> IMO, what you two really need is a professional who knows how to HELP you guys weed through the issues and get on the same SIDE.


Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. That's exactly how he feels. Add in the fact that for the 14 years we've been together, we've never had a major fight, and this is all a crushing blow. He does feel like I can never be happy. And when I tried to play it cool and just be there, he felt like I was settling. 

I let him know before that I believe we do need a counselor. If he decides that he wants this to work, I'll push for it. But he feels that our past counseling was a waste. I told him that they don't fix our problems, but they are there to help us communicate and hear what the other is saying. No promises that the first one will be the one for us.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

remmons said:


> He loves and is o.k. with his kids, but he doesn't want to take them. I am sorry to say that I am feeling that he needs to get away from any and all distractions. When I go places, I take any and all of my kids with me, except when I need my "quite time".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He does love his kids, and it isn't that he doesn't want to take them. My H is just a loner in some ways. He needs his quiet time. And he needs this time to think and deal with all that's been going on instead of those things being a distraction. I guess that was his reason for not splitting the weekend. He's not trying to get away from ME, he's getting away from everything. 

I don't want to pressure him into making a decision, I actually already made that mistake.  I was sort of angry the other day and standing up for myself when we texted back and forth and I did say that I need to make decisions. We went back and forth with him apologizing over and over again. I basically said I can't deal with the lies and I don't want to hear apologies. I want to see actions. So, he knows that I'd like him to work on being more open and honest. But again, I can't make him do that. He may decide that he can't be the man for me and that I'm better off without him. I just hope not. He said he'll call me this evening when he gets to wherever he ends up.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> He does love his kids, and it isn't that he doesn't want to take them. My H is just a loner in some ways. He needs his quiet time. And he needs this time to think and deal with all that's been going on instead of those things being a distraction. I guess that was his reason for not splitting the weekend. He's not trying to get away from ME, he's getting away from everything.
> 
> I don't want to pressure him into making a decision, I actually already made that mistake.  I was sort of angry the other day and standing up for myself when we texted back and forth and I did say that I need to make decisions. We went back and forth with him apologizing over and over again. I basically said I can't deal with the lies and I don't want to hear apologies. I want to see actions. So, he knows that I'd like him to work on being more open and honest. But again, I can't make him do that. He may decide that he can't be the man for me and that I'm better off without him. I just hope not. He said he'll call me this evening when he gets to wherever he ends up.


Maybe I can help you to better understand where your H is coming from.

I am a loner too, and this is probably my draw back. When I have those times where I have too much going on, or I am under pressure, I need to distance myself from the general population, friends, family, whoever. The last thing that I need is more distractions when I already have too much noise going on inside my head. I will retreat to my garage and tinker around with my Jeep or truck, or take a drive to the mountains. Driving gives me some excellent thinking time.

I have always kept things bottled up inside. I was never one to open up and talk about me, or what I am going through. This was a (huge) set back for me when my W and I needed to communicate about delicate issues. My W is one to get it out in the open and work on it right then and there. My mind does not process information like that, so I need this alone time to figure things out and get back to her when I have it all sorted out. If she tried to hound on me prematurely (before I'm ready), I run the risk of shutting down, or losing my temper.

Since my separation from my W, I have made several changes. I have opened up to people, expressing what I am feeling, I have opened up to new friendships, and I have gotten closer to my in-laws. I have been to two counselors, both of which have recently told me that I am progressing very well to where I am slmost done, and I have grown spiritually (no, I'm not one of those who "found" God).

It took an extreme moment in my life to finally wake up and "come around" and open up to people. I am hoping and praying that this does not happen to you. He will be ready when the time is right. In the mean time, this may be an excellent opportunity to take an inventory of yourself, spend some quality time alone, with the kids, or with family, which ever lets you to be "you".
I am by far no expert. Just someone who has been through this. Good luck!


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

> I do believe he cares for me and loves me very much, but just doesn't know what to do. It ended with him holding me like he hasn't for awhile and being more intimate than we have in awhile.


I agree with you 100% and I REALLY think that him holding you is a VERY good sign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 



> I let him know before that I believe we do need a counselor. If he decides that he wants this to work, I'll push for it. But he feels that our past counseling was a waste. I told him that they don't fix our problems, but they are there to help us communicate and hear what the other is saying


I 100% agree. Getting someone into counseling is hard sometimes. I really hope he agrees. I think you guys can work this out and be very happy



> He admitted that he's checked out of the marriage, not on purpose, but in self preservation. He needs to figure out how to check back in by finding some strength and figuring out what's best. He acknowledged that he could go away and it not help. But he does want us to be happy again, he's just torn at how that can happen.


This is also very good. 

From what you've said, the conversation you had went as well as it could have. I would be hopeful.

Just make sure to keep your cool while he is gone. The one time I called my wife to "talk" during separation it was HORRIBLE!! Give him 5 days on his terms.

Stay strong and best of luck, this is VERY hard stuff. Again, get in counseling if you can. Hopefully he agrees.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Is he an introvert?


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> Is he an introvert?


No, not really. Just more of a homebody. But he does enjoy socializing with others. Just keeps his feelings bottled up. 



So, I was okay today until I got in the car to come home. Stayed at work late. I lost it in the car. Then I come home, and I'm an insecure wreck.  I want to trust him and believe what he says, and that this is exactly what he's said it is, but why can't I push away the doubt and insecurity? Started with waking up this morning and his phone was in bed by his pillow. He says he doesn't remember bringing it to bed. Then last night in our convo I brought up the ex on facebook and how I wish he'd realize how the whole situation is messed up and delete her. He reiterates how it is so not a big deal. He says he wishes I'd delete her because he knows I go to her wall every day and scrutinize everything. But it's more for peace of mind. So, he leaves today at 2, takes cash (ugh) and I just now heard from him with a text saying he's in a city (that is only 2 hours away) and he hopes the text goes through because he only has one bar.  I'm a wreck. So I am playing around on facebook and I go to HER page and she's blocked me from her wall! Coincidence? Now my mind is going all sorts of crazy places. Like, did he really hop a plane? Or what the heck? He told me he'd talk to me this evening when I spoke with him at noon. I don't even know how to respond to his text. This is horrible. I can't deal. I'm falling apart. And the hard part is that if he ever calls me, I don't know how to hide it all. I can't bring this stuff up!


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

> This is horrible. I can't deal. I'm falling apart.


I know this feeling. Its unbearable. I'm really sorry you are going through this. Stay strong and don't freak out on him. I frieked out on my wife twice and it didn't go well (once on the phone and once on a date). 

It is 100% understandable that you can't trust him and you head is going crazy. Your forum signature is probably accurate. 

When you talk to him, you can probably say something like. "I feel really insecure. Please tell me that you are just taking 5 days to yourself and didn't hop a plane to cheat on me." I would be very careful with what you say. Even if you only talk by texts because actually talking to him is too hard. My wife and I sometimes e-mailed when thing were hard because talking is so much more emotional.

Nothing has changed and I would still be hopeful. I was hopeful for you (for what it matters) from what you said earlier.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

anx said:


> I know this feeling. Its unbearable. I'm really sorry you are going through this. Stay strong and don't freak out on him. I frieked out on my wife twice and it didn't go well (once on the phone and once on a date).
> 
> It is 100% understandable that you can't trust him and you head is going crazy. Your forum signature is probably accurate.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I really appreciate it. I only have one good friend that knows the whole story, and she's having a hard time with the coincidence of him saying something last night about me looking at the ex gf's page and then her blocking me from her wall today. What would make her do that? I don't post on her stuff and I don't post a lot of things on my own. Looks bad. I definitely can't mention it to him, he'll freak out on me. 

I texted him that I was worried and called and left a voicemail. He texted back that he sent me 2 texts and to let him know if I got it. I wrote back that I did, and asked if he got my voicemail. I also said that I guess he's not going to call. I don't want to crowd him or push him, but I feel so insecure. If I told him what you wrote, he'd freak out on me. This whole situation is a mess. I'm barely hanging on. We do usually communicate a lot better by texts, but I'm feeling shut out. He assured me that he wanted to talk to me, but now I don't think it'll go that way.  I have to try to go teach a class of third graders tomorrow and I'm a wreck!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm at my lowest low. Cried myself to sleep last night, thinking the worse. I tried to call him and no answer, I texted him several texts with a response an hour later, cool as a cucumber. I finally texted him at about 9:15 saying goodnight. Then he sends a text at almost 11, saying that he got my texts and sent several, but he doesn't know if I got him. (If he got mine, he would have acknowledged what I wrote, well should have!) Just saying he's thinking of all of us and he'll call us tomorrow when he has a signal. Not sure how this will play out. His mom was talking to me but I feel like she's avoiding me now. She's friends with the ex gf on facebook, wonder if she knows something. I texted the mom last night to see if she heard from my H, but got no response. This is looking grim.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

LostNLonely -- I thought he was supposed to be going out to a cabin to get away from "everything"? What happened to that plan?

You have to stop focusing on him and what he is doing, and focus on you. YOU HAVE TO for your own sanity. this is your time, to think about what you want out of life too. Look at your kids. Look at yourself. What do you want for the three of you? If it is him, what do you need to change to have a happy marriage with him?What do you need for yourself to be a happy and fulfilled person? I know this doesn't help, but I am going to say it anyway. I love my husband. BUT I CAN LIVE WITHOUT HIM. I don't want to, but I know that I can. And he knows that I can. I don't NEED him I WANT him. You need to find that for yourself also.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

> This is looking grim.


I don't think it is. I know it feels that way and you are freaking out about it. 

He is probably at a cabin with poor reception like he said he was going to do. He said the reception was poor.

His mom probably knows he is taking a 5 day break an is avoiding you because she doesn't know what to say or do.

Try to be sane. I know its almost impossible. I know that feeling of desperation. I wanted to call my wife up and SPAM text her until she loved me. I knew it would do the opposite of what I was hoping for.

I can just see him driving back into town to pick something up and getting 400 text messages all at once. I could see myself doing that at least.

When my wife and I were separated, I saw her not online so I texted and e-mailed and freaked out one night. She had gone to bed early and woken up to my desperate crazy messages. I KNOW my wife would never cheat on my. When she wasn't online my mind went strait to her cheating on me in the most crazy ways and I couldn't shake it. At the time, I convinced myself she must be going to bars to pick up guys or something. Even though she doesn't like bars and would never do that. I was CRAZY until she talked to me the next night and said she just went to bed early.

I remember you posting on my story that our stories were similar but in reverse. 

STAY STRONG. You can do this.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DawnD said:


> LostNLonely -- I thought he was supposed to be going out to a cabin to get away from "everything"? What happened to that plan?
> 
> You have to stop focusing on him and what he is doing, and focus on you. YOU HAVE TO for your own sanity. this is your time, to think about what you want out of life too. Look at your kids. Look at yourself. What do you want for the three of you? If it is him, what do you need to change to have a happy marriage with him?What do you need for yourself to be a happy and fulfilled person? I know this doesn't help, but I am going to say it anyway. I love my husband. BUT I CAN LIVE WITHOUT HIM. I don't want to, but I know that I can. And he knows that I can. I don't NEED him I WANT him. You need to find that for yourself also.


You're right. It's just really hard right now to not focus on him and all the thoughts going through my mind. I know I can live without him. I definitely don't want to. But most of all I don't want to be betrayed again and have my heart stomped on all while he tells me he loves me. I'd rather him be upfront than show such disrespect as lying to my face. I can't change anything at this time. I can be happy without him, but in order to do that I feel like I have to know that he isn't part of the equation. I hate feeling unwanted. I'm angry and scared all at the same time.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

He did text me this morning and said he got my texts last night but that reception was poor. Which it really could be. I just feel like all these coincidences have to mean something? He said to give the kids hugs and kisses and that he loved me. And a little text heart. But then he didn't text back.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Uh...isn't the reason he left was so that he could get AWAY from you? What good does it do if you go kamikaze on him and demand he keep in touch with you?


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

My heart goes out to you. Keep up the strength to overcome this difficult time. Don't let your mind wander, stay positive. Let him know that you are there for him, but don't overwhelm him, this may back fire on you if you do.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> Uh...isn't the reason he left was so that he could get AWAY from you? What good does it do if you go kamikaze on him and demand he keep in touch with you?


Yes, it wasn't to get away from ME, it was to have time to sort himself out. And I'd be fine if he had said that he would text me he was okay but not talk to me, but instead he said he would of course talk to me. And now I feel shut out. On top of the insecurity thing because of the ex. I wish I could verify where he was and that he was alone, but I know I can't have that. Right now I'd just like to hear his voice. And of course my daughter's bedroom light burnt out last night and I have no idea how to open the fixture to change the bulb. Just insanity.



remmons said:


> My heart goes out to you. Keep up the strength to overcome this difficult time. Don't let your mind wander, stay positive. Let him know that you are there for him, but don't overwhelm him, this may back fire on you if you do.


Thank you so much, it does mean a lot to have this support here. It's hard not to let my mind wander. I did text him last night that I just wanted to know he was okay and I wasn't trying to bother him. I guess I'll lay off and hopefully he is doing what he says he's doing and I won't implode. I'm having a really hard time functioning though.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I am SO SORRY you're agonizing over this so much. My heart truly goes out to you. I highly doubt he has "hopped a plane". Just what exactly is it that you're so afraid of? Are you afraid it's a repeat of 4 years ago, that he's getting involved in an EA with the ex gf? Put a name to your fear. Attempt to conquer it, face it head on. Easier said than done, I SO know that.

You need to take some time to breathe. Try to calm down. Do whatever it takes. Google some relaxation techniques. Take a nice, warm bubble bath. Have a glass of wine with it. Let your mind go somewhere else. 

All this stress and worry is doing you no good at this point. And I really, really do understand it's just not that easy. But you need to take this time and focus on yourself...not on him, or what he may or may NOT be doing. If you let your imagination run wild, it's going to go places you don't want it to.

Just hang in there. Let him be. I can promise you if something IS going on, you will find out about it sooner or later, but stressing about it isn't going to help you or change anything. I'm just going to send you a *hug*


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

> Thank you so much, it does mean a lot to have this support here. It's hard not to let my mind wander. I did text him last night that I just wanted to know he was okay and I wasn't trying to bother him. I guess I'll lay off and hopefully he is doing what he says he's doing and I won't implode. I'm having a really hard time functioning though.


I have been separated from my wife since the week of Christmas. My minds still wanders, but I have been gaining more control over this.

I don't blame you for needing to know if he is o.k. I would want to know too! Too bad that he didn't appoint a relative or friend to keep check on him. Who knows? Maybe he will be a totally different person when he comes back. Or maybe he will have resolved his issues. (Keeping fingers crossed for luck).


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

major misfit said:


> I am SO SORRY you're agonizing over this so much. My heart truly goes out to you. I highly doubt he has "hopped a plane". Just what exactly is it that you're so afraid of? Are you afraid it's a repeat of 4 years ago, that he's getting involved in an EA with the ex gf? Put a name to your fear. Attempt to conquer it, face it head on. Easier said than done, I SO know that.
> 
> You need to take some time to breathe. Try to calm down. Do whatever it takes. Google some relaxation techniques. Take a nice, warm bubble bath. Have a glass of wine with it. Let your mind go somewhere else.
> 
> ...


Thanks, this does help me a lot, mm. How can I conquer my insecurities, though? I am afraid that he's meeting up with the ex gf or someone else, even. But when we talk and he makes excuses for these "coincidences" I seem to believe him and he isn't the best liar. I don't think he's capable of doing that to me again. But then again, we never really know what someone is capable of. 

You are 100% correct that I can't control the situation. I guess I just want to hear his voice and make my stance clear. But instead I come off desperate. It's just soooo much time of thinking. I wonder if he's calling her or if he's really alone. I wonder if he's even where he says he is or if he really has bad reception. When I got worried last night I texted his mom to see if she'd heard from him. She didn't respond, so I feel shut out. This morning she texted that she didn't get the text and did he make it home okay. SO she has no clue what's going on I guess. Hope I didn't open a can of worms, but I could use her to talk to. I just don't know if she wants to be involved anymore.  

Thank goodness for my good friend. We're going to hang out this weekend together and go out of town. I can't sit in that house, it just makes me cry. And feel helpless. He told me yesterday he wasn't taking his pillow because he knew it smelled like him. I thought that was sweet. But I don't know anymore. Part of me feels like he might be this whole other person I don't know.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

> I wonder if he's even where he says he is or if he really has bad reception. When I got worried last night I texted his mom to see if she'd heard from him. She didn't respond, so I feel shut out. This morning she texted that she didn't get the text and did he make it home okay.


My cellular service provides me with online services that allow me to monitor my cell phone usage. I used this to monitor my wife's cell phone usage. This is how I was able to confirm what I had suspected.

I know that this may be mistrusting your H, but you do have some options IF you suspect that he is cheating on you. You can either confirm that he is not doing or going where he said he is, or you can lay a lot of your suspicions to rest, by going online to your cellular carrier website and look at the call detail reports. This may be able to let you know what calls and texts were made, to who, and for how long. Is GPS enabled on his phone? This will also let you know his location.

If you do find out that he is REALLY doing what he said that he was doing, then you can ease your mind. But if he ISN't......

I am still hoping that his retreat is legitimate, and that the two of you can get this worked out. I know how painful it is to be separated, the lonliness can get overwhelming at times. Have patience. Keep your chin up, you will soon have your answers.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> I just want to hear his voice and make my stance clear. But instead I come off desperate.


But haven't you already made your stance clear, a number of times?

You are trying to control him. I imagine that's a trait of yours (no offense) and is therefore one of the things he is trying to get away from. Best to be honest with yourself, so that YOU can also benefit from this time apart.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

turnera said:


> But haven't you already made your stance clear, a number of times?
> 
> You are trying to control him. I imagine that's a trait of yours (no offense) and is therefore one of the things he is trying to get away from. Best to be honest with yourself, so that YOU can also benefit from this time apart.


I think that this is some advice that we all can use.:thumbup:


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

remmons said:


> My cellular service provides me with online services that allow me to monitor my cell phone usage. I used this to monitor my wife's cell phone usage. This is how I was able to confirm what I had suspected.
> 
> I know that this may be mistrusting your H, but you do have some options IF you suspect that he is cheating on you. You can either confirm that he is not doing or going where he said he is, or you can lay a lot of your suspicions to rest, by going online to your cellular carrier website and look at the call detail reports. This may be able to let you know what calls and texts were made, to who, and for how long. Is GPS enabled on his phone? This will also let you know his location.
> 
> ...


We both switched to an unlimited provider, so we have separate accounts. He's logged into his before to pay the bill, and I don't have the password or login. And he would flip if he found out. I told him no more snooping and told him he could change his fb and email passwords a month ago. He did. Transparency is not something he's cool with. He doesn't even care to see my stuff. He trusts me with reckless abandon. I once told him I felt like I was responding unhealthily towards male attention at work, and he just shrugged it off. It's messed up. I've thought of being immature and planting seeds of doubt, but that would just make things worse. And I'm not that kind of person. 

I'm really hoping his excuse and trip are legitimate. Believe me! 



turnera said:


> But haven't you already made your stance clear, a number of times?
> 
> You are trying to control him. I imagine that's a trait of yours (no offense) and is therefore one of the things he is trying to get away from. Best to be honest with yourself, so that YOU can also benefit from this time apart.


I just mean I want to make it known that I am giving him time and space. But I need to know how to get ahold of him in an emergency. And darnit, I'd be fine not communicating but HE'S the one that said we'd communicate. And that he'll talk to me later or tonight or tomorrow. But he's not following through. He's leaving me hanging. He knows exactly what it's doing to me, yet he doesn't care or feels that he needs to do this.

I am not controlling. I can see how many of my actions and snooping can be taken as controlling. And I am, by my nature, a person that needs to know what's going on and I have a plan for everything. This uncertainty is hard to swallow and not something that sits well with my type of personality. He's not trying to get away from my controlling, he's trying to have alone time so he can process all that's happened and been said. So that he can figure out how and why both of us have changed and if it's worth another shot. Hard to let a pessimist go off and do that. And even harder to trust he's doing what he says he's doing. But I have NO control in this situation. Even if I tried to go where he says he is it'd be like a needle in a haystack.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

My question is - why the magic "5 days" number?

Why not 3 days, 2 days, 7 days - where did the number - 5, come from?

I actually find that the most interesting part of this post - why it has to be 5 days.

Can anyone really find themselves in EXACTLY 5 days?

Just wondering??


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> I just mean I want to make it known that I am giving him time and space.


You DID. Why do you have to tell him again?



> But I need to know how to get ahold of him in an emergency.


You DO know how. You HAVE his number. The phone service not working has nothing to do with you *knowing* how to get hold of him.



> And darnit, I'd be fine not communicating but HE'S the one that said we'd communicate. And that he'll talk to me later or tonight or tomorrow. But he's not following through. He's leaving me hanging. He knows exactly what it's doing to me, yet *he doesn't care* or feels that he needs to do this.


This is called a Disrespectful Judgment. It means that you are mind-reading, telling a person (or deciding) what they are thinking or feeling or WHY they are doing something. It's something you have no control over, yet you still do it. Basing your own decisions off of a DJ, when you DON'T know the truth - how can you, they are HIS truths - is harmful to your marriage.



> *I am not controlling*. I can see how many of my actions and snooping can be taken as controlling. And I am, by my nature, a person that* needs to know what's going on and I have a plan for everything*.


Just exactly what do you think controlling MEANS?



> This uncertainty is hard to swallow and *not*
> *something that sits well with my type of personality*.


And you don't think that he's trying to get away from this? If HE had to know what you are doing every day, what you are thinking, what your plans are, and if he got in your face if you didn't provide him that information, can you imagine how STRESSFUL it would be to be 'under watch' your whole marriage? When it's the woman experiencing this, we often warn her that her spouse is potentially abusive. That IS attempted control over another person, for your own benefit. Oops, I mean, so that it 'sits well' with your personality. 



> He's not trying to get away from my controlling, he's trying to have alone time so he can process all that's happened and been said.


What has happened? What has been said? 



> And even harder to trust he's doing what he says he's doing. But *I have NO control* in this situation. Even *if I tried to go where he says he is* it'd be like a needle in a haystack.


 You truly don't see what I'm seeing? You are so far into wanting to control the situation, so unwilling to LET GO and let him do whatever he ends up doing without your INTERFERENCE that you are even considering SPYING on him. How would you feel if YOU needed time away from him, and HE followed YOU?

I'm asking you to be honest with yourself, SO that you can save your marriage. I'm not trying to tear you down or dis you. I'm trying to get you to look at YOUR half of your marriage and ASK yourself why he needed to be away from you.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> My question is - why the magic "5 days" number?
> 
> Why not 3 days, 2 days, 7 days - where did the number - 5, come from?
> 
> ...


I don't think it HAS to be 5. I think that he just said initially he wanted "some" time away. Then with work, it was most feasible because he took off Fri & Sat and left early Thurs, and then Sun and Mon the next week. So he really didn't have to lose any vacation time. That's why it's 5. He just needed as much as possible, which is why he wouldn't let me take part. Plus, he didn't want to inconvenience me too much with taking the little one to daycare since he does that. And he was hoping I'd do something over the weekend to stay occupied. He knows exactly what this is doing to me, though. He says himself that he dreads me being home on Saturdays while he is at work because my mind wanders.

And who knows? 5 days might not be enough. But to be fair to both of us, I can't live with him sulking around "trying" to be normal and me walking on eggshells. So I might have to give a trial separation a go. If things don't change, I can't deal. It would be hard to be separated and it would really feed my insecurity. But I don't know what else to do. He won't do marriage counseling or talk to anyone. He just expects it to all get better. I'm really hoping he is missing us and thinking about how he can "check back in" to our marriage.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> My question is - why the magic "5 days" number?
> 
> Why not 3 days, 2 days, 7 days - where did the number - 5, come from?
> 
> ...


When my W and I were goung to marriage counseling, the therapist asked me what my time frame was for fixing our problems. I told her before christmas (which was ten days away at the time). She looked at me and asked me if I was serious! I told her that I have NO IDEA how long was needed. It has been since the middle of December, and we are no closer now than we were back then.

BOTH parties have to WANT to make this work. If one is not willing, then it will not work. I was willing, she was not. It was later that I discovered that she had ghosts in the closet from her past that she needed to work on herself first _before_ we can work on "us".


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I can understand that you might be afraid and insecure b/c of what happened 4 years ago. I wouldn't blame you. But how you're going about things right now isn't going to help things.




LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, this does help me a lot, mm. How can I conquer my insecurities, though? I am afraid that he's meeting up with the ex gf or someone else, even. But when we talk and he makes excuses for these "coincidences" I seem to believe him and he isn't the best liar. I don't think he's capable of doing that to me again. But then again, we never really know what someone is capable of.


No, we never know what someone is capable of. You have gone back and forth in this post between defending him (that he's NOT cheating) and worrying that he might be. Totally understandable. You probably needed counseling after what happened, to work on YOUR insecurities. (sorry if you did..but I don't remember reading that anywhere) 



> You are 100% correct that I can't control the situation. I guess I just want to hear his voice and make my stance clear. But instead I come off desperate. It's just soooo much time of thinking. I wonder if he's calling her or if he's really alone. I wonder if he's even where he says he is or if he really has bad reception. When I got worried last night I texted his mom to see if she'd heard from him. She didn't respond, so I feel shut out. This morning she texted that she didn't get the text and did he make it home okay. SO she has no clue what's going on I guess. Hope I didn't open a can of worms, but I could use her to talk to. I just don't know if she wants to be involved anymore.


Honestly, the last person I would involve would be his mother. I can understand you want the reassurance from her...but she's not likely the most objective person, and you don't want to worry her. And yes..you're coming off as desperate. And that's NEVER attractive. To anyone. STAY BUSY.



> Thank goodness for my good friend. We're going to hang out this weekend together and go out of town. I can't sit in that house, it just makes me cry. And feel helpless. He told me yesterday he wasn't taking his pillow because he knew it smelled like him. I thought that was sweet. But I don't know anymore. Part of me feels like he might be this whole other person I don't know.


I'm glad you've got a good friend. Bend her ear right now. Lay bare all those insecurities. Let her be your shoulder to cry on right now. Above everything...STAY BUSY. If you keep trying to get ahold of him...keep texting him, calling, etc...he's going to pull away. I really do get that you're nutting out right now..but if you don't get ahold of yourself, you're going to end up setting things back. I'd put my phone somewhere where I would have to jump through hoops to use it. I'd check it twice a day, and not call or text him if there wasn't one from him.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> I don't think it HAS to be 5. I think that he just said initially he wanted "some" time away. Then with work, it was most feasible because he took off Fri & Sat and left early Thurs, and then Sun and Mon the next week. So he really didn't have to lose any vacation time. That's why it's 5. He just needed as much as possible, which is why he wouldn't let me take part. Plus, he didn't want to inconvenience me too much with taking the little one to daycare since he does that. And he was hoping I'd do something over the weekend to stay occupied. He knows exactly what this is doing to me, though. He says himself that he dreads me being home on Saturdays while he is at work because my mind wanders.
> 
> And who knows? 5 days might not be enough. But to be fair to both of us, I can't live with him sulking around "trying" to be normal and me walking on eggshells. So I might have to give a trial separation a go. If things don't change, I can't deal. It would be hard to be separated and it would really feed my insecurity. But I don't know what else to do. He won't do marriage counseling or talk to anyone. He just expects it to all get better. I'm really hoping he is missing us and thinking about how he can "check back in" to our marriage.


K - was curious about the 5 days.

Hopefully things will work out and he'll find out that the grass is not always greener on the other side.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

remmons said:


> When my W and I were goung to marriage counseling, the therapist asked me what my time frame was for fixing our problems. I told her before christmas (which was ten days away at the time). She looked at me and asked me if I was serious! I told her that I have NO IDEA how long was needed. It has been since the middle of December, and we are no closer now than we were back then.
> 
> BOTH parties have to WANT to make this work. If one is not willing, then it will not work. I was willing, she was not. It was later that I discovered that she had ghosts in the closet from her past that she needed to work on herself first _before_ we can work on "us".


I know what you mean.

I've been in IC and MC for almost a year and a half and we're not there yet.

Though I do feel better about myself - better than I have in a long time...so if I get no other benefit - I've got that!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> You DID. Why do you have to tell him again? No, I didn't. I want to let him know that I just wanted to hear his voice and if he wanted to just communicate via text at his leisure that was fine.
> 
> You DO know how. You HAVE his number. The phone service not working has nothing to do with you *knowing* how to get hold of him.Doesn't do me much good when he's not getting texts or calls because he has no signal. I don't see the harm in this.
> 
> ...





major misfit said:


> I can understand that you might be afraid and insecure b/c of what happened 4 years ago. I wouldn't blame you. But how you're going about things right now isn't going to help things. I agree. I'm trying to control myself. But when the people supporting me start to agree that things look fishy that doesn't help the insecurity.
> 
> No, we never know what someone is capable of. You have gone back and forth in this post between defending him (that he's NOT cheating) and worrying that he might be. Totally understandable. You probably needed counseling after what happened, to work on YOUR insecurities. (sorry if you did..but I don't remember reading that anywhere) I agree. And I think I'm going to pursue this. We went to a handful of marriage counseling sessions after the EA, and the counselor focused on HIM and how he could deal with his issues that led to our problems. Minimally discussed the communication breakdown. But I had resentment because she never helped me deal with my insecurity or the affair. Just told me I had to push the negative thoughts out of my mind.
> 
> ...


 I'm done calling or texting him, unless he initiates first. She actually bought into my insecurities tonight, so that didn't help. He's pulling away. I think I did set things back. Hopefully it didn't do as much damage as I fear. But he told me he was ignoring me last night because he didn't want to have "this" conversation. And he said that he loved me but he didn't NEED me or THIS.  I'm fighting for me and me only. I love me and there are plenty others who love me. 



MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I know what you mean.
> 
> I've been in IC and MC for almost a year and a half and we're not there yet.
> 
> Though I do feel better about myself - better than I have in a long time...so if I get no other benefit - I've got that!


I need to feel better about myself. HE won't agree to MC, but I can do IC. I'm going to call on Monday. I need someone rational to vent to. Hopefully he'll join me one day. 

The problem is, he sees other people who have had problems, and feels like separation solved their problems. He doesn't know how or why, but that's how he rationalizes solving problems. And I pointed out that plenty work out problems without separating, you just don't know becuase you don't advertise problems, but when you live apart everyone knows. I guess at least, he sees separation as a way to fix not a means to divorce. But the way he talks sometimes is horrible. 

He sent me a text tonight that just said "I'm sorry. I hate that this is what we have turned into. Give the kids my love. Know I love you, whether you believe me or not." Then he sent me a pic of his tackle box in his truck so I knew he was fishing. But he did refuse to give me the hotel name or number. It's going to take a long time for him to trust me to trust him. What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Oh and please don't tear me apart for being human. I didn't listen and I let my insecurities and friends/family get the best of me. Yes, I made a mistake and I'll have to live with the consequences. So, I'm off for a few days and we'll see what will happen when he comes home. I feel like I should pack his bags for him. I'm such a chump.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I was heading to sleep and found this thread on my way in. I just wanted to comment. I really feel that he is the one who has betrayed the relationship in the past and is refusing to come fully clean now. As long as you allow him to have the upper hand emotionally, you will not be on equal ground.

Can you arrange a babysitter and surprise him at this cabin? Do you even know where this cabin is?

The other question I have is, are you so afraid of losing him that you're going to allow him to dictate what happens in your relationship? It seems to me that this is what he's doing even if it's not his intent.

Why is it you are supposed to be in a place where it's perfectly acceptable for him to have time to find himself while you're crying in your car? NOOOOOOOO!

I get AffairCare is saying that you never know when our time is up, that's great and all, but to me that says...stop allowing this man to emotionally take advantage of you NOW while he is trying to find himself.

I want you to become stronger for yourself. Work on what it is you need from him and ask yourself if you're really getting it.

He had an EA, he won't delete a girlfriend on his facebook. He is not honoring your relationship or caring about how you feel.

That is how I see it and I FULLY BELIEVE you have a right to have a say in what is going on here, a right to be upset, heard and angry about what is going on.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Trenton said:


> I was heading to sleep and found this thread on my way in. I just wanted to comment. I really feel that he is the one who has betrayed the relationship in the past and is refusing to come fully clean now. As long as you allow him to have the upper hand emotionally, you will not be on equal ground.
> 
> Can you arrange a babysitter and surprise him at this cabin? Do you even know where this cabin is?
> 
> ...


Great post. This is exactly how I feel about it, and you don't seem to even know exactly where he is, just the vicinity. 

he has done the wrong thing, and he is telling you how things will be, I believe he wants space to decide if he wants to be with her or you, and i really do think he's with her, however even if you don't believe that, what he is doing to you isn't fair or right.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Trenton said:


> I was heading to sleep and found this thread on my way in. I just wanted to comment. I really feel that he is the one who has betrayed the relationship in the past and is refusing to come fully clean now. As long as you allow him to have the upper hand emotionally, you will not be on equal ground.
> 
> Can you arrange a babysitter and surprise him at this cabin? Do you even know where this cabin is?
> 
> ...


You're right. It isn't acceptable. I guess I'm accepting less because of where he is emotionally, based on what he says. I know this has all been very hard on him. He does take the blame for a lot of it and hates seeing me cry. But he feels like he's made a mistake and can never live it down. So he doesn't even try. He gets so irritated about the facebook thing. I don't get it. I'm the hopeful one and he's the doubtful one. I might have to just take my stand when he gets back and tell him to go stay with his parents and think. 

I just feel like if I stop caring, he'll feel like all hope is lost. Once when we fought I gave him a look, and it scared the crap out of him. He told me later that he was afraid of me hating him, and he had seen the look of hate in my eyes. He is afraid of this continuing and deteriorating to the point where we can't even be cordial with one another. He does admit that it isn't fair that I'm being dragged along, but he doesn't know what to do. He says he has at least a little bit of hope because he's still here. But he's also made comments when this first began about how he hates to continue to hurt me, and sometimes he feels like it would be better to leave and hurt me one last time, then continue to always hurt me. He just feels like he can't win, he's not good enough for me anymore for some reason.

So I guess I'm letting him have the upper hand for a little bit, hoping that he'll be better emotionally. This is my last resort right now. But this isn't the dynamic of our overall relationship at all. He really isn't this monster, he's just really messed up right now. He didn't end up at a cabin, he's at a motel, but he won't tell me the name because he thinks I'm crazy enough to drive up and spy on him, apparently. So, I'm just going to take it day by day. I've made it clear to him on several occasions that he's disregarding my feelings when he remains friends with her and placing her above me. I say it's unfair to me. He says it's unfair to him and that all our fights and problems come back to her, and that if he deleted her that the problems would be there. :scratchhead: Maybe it's a good thing to try, just delete her!

I'm going to set up individual counseling to help myself. I've been with him since I was 18, he's really the only man I've loved. We had a solid, wonderful, easy relationship. It's just now taking some work and some things are being realized. I just can't do anything about those problems on my own. He needs to look in the mirror to find himself. 



Syrum said:


> Great post. This is exactly how I feel about it, and you don't seem to even know exactly where he is, just the vicinity.
> 
> he has done the wrong thing, and he is telling you how things will be, I believe he wants space to decide if he wants to be with her or you, and i really do think he's with her, however even if you don't believe that, what he is doing to you isn't fair or right.


I don't like it one bit. But you have to understand my H to really get it. I was pissed, and he was even more pissed on my suggestion that he tell me the name of his motel. I asked him to go use his debit card to buy something in the convenience store and he flipped for me not believing him. Problem is, his mom is the one who had me all worked up! So, he wasn't willing to do that, but he sent me a pic of his tacklebox in the back of his truck.  The way he responded to my suggestion that he was with her didn't sound like one of guilt. He thought it was absurd. Even with being deceived by him in the past, I feel like I do know when he's lying. I don't think he's deciding between me or her, he's really deciding how to handle this mess and if he's willing to fight. My attitude about it all has GOT to change. I don't want to be alone, but I don't want to deal with all this. I'm really afraid of what separating would do to the kids, since I've been in their shoes. But it might be best in the long run.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm sorry you think I'm being harsh, but I'm trying to help you. Could he be cheating? Of course. But he could be cheating at home.

But everything you described tells me that he is frustrated with YOU. And therefore, the only thing you can do about it is find out WHAT about you is upsetting him, and work on that. 

Did he screw up 4 years ago? Yes. Does he need to change? Sure. We all do. But right now HE is the one who may want out, and therefore it will be up to you to give him a reason to stay.

The best way I can think to do that is to go to MarriageBuilders.com and copy the Love Buster questionnaire; email it to him and ask him to fill it out. Then send it back to you; it tells you what YOU do that upsets him, so you can get a clear picture of what you have ahead of you.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> I'm sorry you think I'm being harsh, but I'm trying to help you. Could he be cheating? Of course. But he could be cheating at home.
> 
> But everything you described tells me that he is frustrated with YOU. And therefore, the only thing you can do about it is find out WHAT about you is upsetting him, and work on that.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your help. And you are right. He has a problem with how I am, which he feels is a result of his mistake 4 years ago, so he blames the whole thing on himself. It hurts to hear him say he loves me but doesn't need me. I think he's mad now. He won't do any lovebuster thing right now. Problem is, I don't know how to give him a reason to stay. I am almost positive he'll be packing tomorrow to leave as soon as he gets back.  

I am also pretty sure he lied about the whole time away. He told me he went to a town about 3 hours north, but he didn't know the town name just what it was near. Refused to give me hotel name or number, etc. That was Fri night, horrible conversation. Sent me a text later saying he was sorry and that he hates that this is what we have turned into and to know that he loves me. Then he texted me late Saturday and said he hoped I was alright and asked where we were and told me again he's sorry things are the way they are and that he loves me. I waited a few hours to respond and then just said I was fine and I loved him too. Short and simple, but didn't say where I was. Haven't heard from him since. 

I went away for the weekend and had a great time. Just got home tonight. He's supposed to be home tomorrow. I looked at our bank records and he got money from an atm yesterday, an hour west of here (no where near where he said he was, and not on the way back), and then he got gas today in the town where his parents live (20 min from us). Probably spent the day with his parents. They hadn't heard from him as of 3pm yesterday. I think he lied the whole time. One of his typical, "Lie now, deal with it later" deals that are a big love buster for me. I hope he talks to them about it all, and his mom knows everything because I talked to her Friday. Problem is, whenever he talks to them they don't give advice, they just support him in whatever he wants to do. Which makes him feel like running to their house. This sucks. My poor kids haven't talked to their dad all weekend.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> I appreciate your help. And you are right. He has a problem with how I am, which he feels is a result of his mistake 4 years ago, so he blames the whole thing on himself. It hurts to hear him say he loves me but doesn't need me. I think he's mad now. He won't do any lovebuster thing right now. Problem is, I don't know how to give him a reason to stay. I am almost positive he'll be packing tomorrow to leave as soon as he gets back.
> 
> I am also pretty sure he lied about the whole time away. He told me he went to a town about 3 hours north, but he didn't know the town name just what it was near. Refused to give me hotel name or number, etc. That was Fri night, horrible conversation. Sent me a text later saying he was sorry and that he hates that this is what we have turned into and to know that he loves me. Then he texted me late Saturday and said he hoped I was alright and asked where we were and told me again he's sorry things are the way they are and that he loves me. I waited a few hours to respond and then just said I was fine and I loved him too. Short and simple, but didn't say where I was. Haven't heard from him since.
> 
> I went away for the weekend and had a great time. Just got home tonight. He's supposed to be home tomorrow. I looked at our bank records and he got money from an atm yesterday, an hour west of here (no where near where he said he was, and not on the way back), and then he got gas today in the town where his parents live (20 min from us). Probably spent the day with his parents. They hadn't heard from him as of 3pm yesterday. I think he lied the whole time. One of his typical, "Lie now, deal with it later" deals that are a big love buster for me. I hope he talks to them about it all, and his mom knows everything because I talked to her Friday. Problem is, whenever he talks to them they don't give advice, they just support him in whatever he wants to do. Which makes him feel like running to their house. This sucks. My poor kids haven't talked to their dad all weekend.


I really feel for you. I hope you spent your time defining your boundaries and be able to stick up for yourself. I understand time to think but he's just sketchy. If he's truly sorry for the past, he's got a funny way of showing it. We don't have trust or cheating issues in our marriage and I'd be questioning given your set of circumstances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> He has a problem with how I am,
> 
> Problem is, I don't know how to give him a reason to stay.


First, your entire post is full of DJs - disrespectful judgments. You ASSUMING what he is thinking. 

If this is typical for you, you need to STOP. It is very frustrating, discouraging, and anger-inducing, if you do it more than once in a blue moon. Let us know if you need help determining if you do it.

Second, your post above says it all.

He has a problem with YOU.

And you want a SOLUTION to keep him.

If YOU are the problem - or even part of it - stop spending all your brain power worrying about what HE is doing, and start paying attention to what YOU are doing. 

If being around YOU makes a problem, change YOU.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> I really feel for you. I hope you spent your time defining your boundaries and be able to stick up for yourself. I understand time to think but he's just sketchy. If he's truly sorry for the past, he's got a funny way of showing it. We don't have trust or cheating issues in our marriage and I'd be questioning given your set of circumstances.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, I appreciate your sympathy. I do need to set boundaries, as I hate being lied to. Problem is, I know that basically means I need to tell him to leave until he can be truthful and honest with me. Right now we're in a snowball effect. 



turnera said:


> First, your entire post is full of DJs - disrespectful judgments. You ASSUMING what he is thinking.
> 
> If this is typical for you, you need to STOP. It is very frustrating, discouraging, and anger-inducing, if you do it more than once in a blue moon. Let us know if you need help determining if you do it.
> 
> ...


Give me examples of DJ's in my post above. Most of what I relay are things he's told me. In words. I admit that I do sometimes assume what he means or isn't saying and it does frustrate him. But I must also let you know that I've done none of this for 2 weeks. I've been calm, collected, and had an open ear, even when he's acted otherwise. I've not engaged in arguments nor started them. Yes, I am trying hard not to act down and that facade might wear thin at times, and yes I get frustrated as well, but I've tried my best to lay off the pressure. The only problem has been when I tried to go in the bedroom to hide that I was upset with something he did, and he came in and pulled it out of me. It made him feel worse and ran into the next morning and "ruined the weekend". 

I made a huge mistake by talking to him Friday. But the thing is, I get positive reinforcement (albeit of a negative thing) when I feel insecure and don't trust him and then it turns out he WAS lying. It's seriously a vicious cycle. And I can't be with him if he has to lie about things all the time. It makes it really hard to believe he's telling the truth about anything. I haven't talked to him since Friday. Has it helped things? Probably not. The next 24 hours will probably be my hardest. I dread tomorrow. 

I don't want a solution on how to keep someone who doesn't want to be kept. And I'm not changing who I am, because I haven't changed. What needs to change is this dynamic. What is going to change is how I view myself, because I deserve better. If he can't be that better, then he can go. I feel sorry for my kids, but he's not upholding his vows. And there's only so much one person can do. He doesn't like to be around me because it's facing the consequences of what he does. I can't change that.


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## Greentea (Aug 28, 2010)

Love yourself, make yourself lovable, don't be a love beggar, nobody will cherish any kind of beggar. you've done enough pleading and begging, have those changed him? I guess not. it only makes him feel that you are sticky, no matter what he does, you will be here, to forgive him, embrass him, do his bidding, you have losen yourself deeper than he has done. Belive me, without him, your world will still be spinning, you will survive, maybe you will survive better without him.
I wish you well.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

How would you feel about doing the 180 on him? I don't know that it would make a difference in HIM, but it might help you keep your sanity through all of this. Only you know if this would be helpful...I'm just throwing something out there.


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## Xena (Feb 11, 2011)

Why is everyone picking on the OP? All she seems to have done is 'guess' what might be going on for her H, which is normal if he says 'I'mm off for 5 days to find myself, BYE'. Anyone of us would be thinking 'UM WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?!'.

I think the problem is HIM...he is being FAR more disrespectful by LYING about where he was going! Doesn't that send alarm bells off for anyone here? If he has nothing to hide...why hide where he is? And lying to your partner is just disgusting, shows no love or respect at all. I hope you make it clear his behaviour is totally unacceptable LostNLonley! And I'd want proof of where he's been these 5 days...!!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

major misfit said:


> How would you feel about doing the 180 on him? I don't know that it would make a difference in HIM, but it might help you keep your sanity through all of this. Only you know if this would be helpful...I'm just throwing something out there.


Yes, that's where I'm going. I already haven't contacted him since that conversation Friday night. He texted me Saturday once and I responded very short, "I'm fine. Love you too." Haven't heard from him since. Today is the day. Not sure how it will go. I'm already feeling sick about it all. 



Xena said:


> Why is everyone picking on the OP? All she seems to have done is 'guess' what might be going on for her H, which is normal if he says 'I'mm off for 5 days to find myself, BYE'. Anyone of us would be thinking 'UM WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?!'.
> 
> I think the problem is HIM...he is being FAR more disrespectful by LYING about where he was going! Doesn't that send alarm bells off for anyone here? If he has nothing to hide...why hide where he is? And lying to your partner is just disgusting, shows no love or respect at all. I hope you make it clear his behaviour is totally unacceptable LostNLonley! And I'd want proof of where he's been these 5 days...!!


I do feel very disrespected and unloved. I hope he does come back and explain himself. Because this turned out to not be what he initially explained it to be. So, the lying continues, when he knows that's all I want is honesty and openness. Red flags are waving and alarm bells are ringing. Makes it hard when you are already insecure from all this mess.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Here's my question now. I'm up and getting ready for work. I'll take the kids to school and go about my day. My guess is that I won't hear from him. I get off at 3, usually pick my daughter up by 4. He said the other night when I asked when he was coming back that he wanted to try to pick up our daughter. If I don't hear from him, I think I'll leave early and try to get her. I just hate the noncommunication thing.

I'm going to try my best to be cool and not attack him about his whereabouts. I'm just going to hope he comes clean. But if he just skirts around the issues or doesn't want to talk about it, I think I need to take action at this point. I want to be 180 cool, drop the thermostat, but I also can't be walked on anymore. I know they say that separation is hard on the kids, and give them advance notice. But I might decide to go in that direction, even if he doesn't (but I think he will). I guess I can only play today minute by minute. I'll be back later!


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

It sounds like your husband is very good at twisting things to be your fault , when he is the one who is doing the wrong thing.

He's checking out of your marriage and it's your fault even thought he has been unfaithful in the past, disrespected you further by having an EA with an ex GF and continued to keep in contact with her.

He is walking all over you and is a clever manipulator. he should be begging you for a second/ third/ fourth chance or whatever it is not the other way around.

He's playing you.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Syrum said:


> It sounds like your husband is very good at twisting things to be your fault , when he is the one who is doing the wrong thing.
> 
> He's checking out of your marriage and it's your fault even thought he has been unfaithful in the past, disrespected you further by having an EA with an ex GF and continued to keep in contact with her.
> 
> ...


I was thinking about this last night and you are so right! He screws up and refuses to do any of the necessary steps so you can heal, and when asked to, goes into a 'poor me - I'm not good enough for you, I should do you a favor a leave' mode. He has you so uncertain that you don't dare stick up for what you need for security and comfort. You are so busy trying to convince him to stay that you can't stop and think and even dare ask for what YOU need.
In regards to the kids, until you are certain you can follow through with anything, don't pre-warn, prepare or involve them.
I believe to save this, you need to take a risk. And the risk is 100 percent transparency, removing the girl off facebook and 100 percent truth. These 5 days away won't be happening again.
And it shouldn't be presented as in, 'You HAVE to do this' more so 'This is what I need, if you can't do it, I have decisions to make because this is unacceptable to me'
What his 5 days away took focus off crap he does and leave you scrambling and worrying and desperate to do anything to keep him. There is no excuse for him to lie about where he is going. If you followed him and showed up, then that should be dealt with another way but to just go and be unreachable??? It's a manipulative tactic. 
I usually agree with tunera 100 percent but not this time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

Syrum said:


> It sounds like your husband is very good at twisting things to be your fault , when he is the one who is doing the wrong thing.
> 
> He's checking out of your marriage and it's your fault even thought he has been unfaithful in the past, disrespected you further by having an EA with an ex GF and continued to keep in contact with her.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think this man is very manipulative. What he did was wrong and YOU are the one feeling horrible, not him. Do you see how this works? 

I think you ought to quit torturing yourself about what he's doing and thinking and just start thinking about taking care of yourself. Start to detach and think about yourself for once.

I feel bad for the pain your in. He's causing you pain intentionally so that he can maintain control.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> I was thinking about this last night and you are so right! He screws up and refuses to do any of the necessary steps so you can heal, and when asked to, goes into a 'poor me - I'm not good enough for you, I should do you a favor a leave' mode. He has you so uncertain that you don't dare stick up for what you need for security and comfort. You are so busy trying to convince him to stay that you can't stop and think and even dare ask for what YOU need.
> In regards to the kids, until you are certain you can follow through with anything, don't pre-warn, prepare or involve them.
> I believe to save this, you need to take a risk. And the risk is 100 percent transparency, removing the girl off facebook and 100 percent truth. These 5 days away won't be happening again.
> And it shouldn't be presented as in, 'You HAVE to do this' more so 'This is what I need, if you can't do it, I have decisions to make because this is unacceptable to me'
> ...


I agree. This is exactly how I feel. He isn't manipulative by nature, but this situation is so messed up. It's time for action. He needs to decide whether he wants this or not, and I can't do anything about it. But I can't be lied to. When presented with the transparency idea, he says he won't live that way under a microscope and also have me dictate who his friends are. In this way, I feel like he wants to behave like a single guy instead of a married man. 



Syrum said:


> It sounds like your husband is very good at twisting things to be your fault , when he is the one who is doing the wrong thing.
> 
> He's checking out of your marriage and it's your fault even thought he has been unfaithful in the past, disrespected you further by having an EA with an ex GF and continued to keep in contact with her.
> 
> ...


He has checked out. I do believe he loves me and wants us to be happy, but for whatever reason there are roadblocks. And he's not willing to bend at all. I'm bending over backwards. 



Myopia1964 said:


> I agree. I think this man is very manipulative. What he did was wrong and YOU are the one feeling horrible, not him. Do you see how this works?
> 
> I think you ought to quit torturing yourself about what he's doing and thinking and just start thinking about taking care of yourself. Start to detach and think about yourself for once.
> 
> I feel bad for the pain your in. He's causing you pain intentionally so that he can maintain control.


Again, he's not like this in nature. But in this situation it sure seems like this is happening. I think I do need to do a 180 and work on detaching. It isn't about control as much as he wants to do what he wants to do and not have to answer to anyone. He cares about my feelings and doesn't like to hurt me, but it's a big Catch 22. For both of us.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

I just wanted to add this. I haven't heard from him since the text on Saturday where he asked if I was okay and wanted to know my plans for the weekend and apologized for our relationship being where it is. I just replied with, "I'm fine. Love you too." Haven't heard from him since in any way, shape, or form. 

Got home from out of town last night, and checked our online account to see that he did two things. One, he took money out from an ATM an hour west of here, when he told me he was 3 hours north of here. Hmmmm. That was Saturday. And then yesterday, he got gas about 20 minutes south of here, which is where his parents lived. I assumed he was staying with them last night. But I texted his mom this morning and she said she hasn't heard from him at all. I guess she could be covering for him, but I don't know. Nice of him to check that we got home okay. 

I'm going to text him in a bit and ask if he's alright. I'm struggling with doing this or not, because obviously he hasn't reached out to me. But the fact remains, that this 5 days was more lies on top of lies. I'm fed up. It isn't fair to me or the kids.


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> I'm going to text him in a bit and ask if he's alright.


DON'T!!!!

Take it from me...I learned the hard way. The more you reach out, the more he retreats. And YOU look like the fool.

You might not think this man is trying to control you, but if, in your words, "he wants to do what he wants to do" and not answer to anyone, that IS about control. He has a family, so thinking about himself exclusively is not an option.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Myopia1964 said:


> DON'T!!!!
> 
> Take it from me...I learned the hard way. The more you reach out, the more he retreats. And YOU look like the fool.
> 
> You might not think this man is trying to control you, but if, in your words, "he wants to do what he wants to do" and not answer to anyone, that IS about control. He has a family, so thinking about himself exclusively is not an option.


OMG! I didn't text him, but I texted his mom to say I was worried. She said he texted her a bit ago and said he was struggling but didn't say where he was. What does that mean? I'm so worried now.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> OMG! I didn't text him, but I texted his mom to say I was worried. She said he texted her a bit ago and said he was struggling but didn't say where he was. What does that mean? I'm so worried now.


Don't fall for it! Just leave him be! He's playing games! Why would he make it plain as day he is lying about his where-abouts when you will find out by banking activity. If he can text his mom to tell her he's ok, he can text you. He knows his 5 days were out of line, but if you're worried sick when you see him, you'll be so relieved he's off the hook!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> Don't fall for it! Just leave him be! He's playing games! Why would he make it plain as day he is lying about his where-abouts when you will find out by banking activity. If he can text his mom to tell her he's ok, he can text you. He knows his 5 days were out of line, but if you're worried sick when you see him, you'll be so relieved he's off the hook!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess you're right. She just says his words were hurting and she's worried too. But she's too busy to call him. I did text him, I know, I'm a sucker. I just asked if everything was okay and that I knew he didn't want to hear from me but I was concerned because I do care about him even though I have no clue what is going on. He just texted back that he never said he didn't want to hear from me, and that he loves and cares about me, and then he said he truly does. But who knows what that means. 

I guess the hard part to convey about him, is that his words and actions conveyed here make him seem like a monster. But I do truly believe what he says in regards to how he's feeling. Yes, I totally disagree with the lies. And I don't think he's being fair to me. All of that, I agree with. But he is not in a good place, but the reason is the unknown. All of the lying is also a puzzle. Why would he lie knowing I'd find the truth? Because it's easier at the time. He knows what he's doing, but he has always just said he'll deal with it later. He is probably scared to come home because he knows he'll have to answer some questions. And I don't know if I'm prepared to ask them because I might not be ready for the answers. All I know is that there are red flags flying, and it sure does look like he has a lot to hide. So how am I supposed to believe anything he says? 

God how I dread tonight.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

For what its worth, I think you are doing the right thing. Start walking away, but tell him you are still open to MC and would be willing to work with him to make it work. 

I'm sad every time I read your posts. I really think with MC you guys could be happy.

Best of luck and say strong. 

YouTube - Prevent My Divorce: The Walkaway Wife Syndrome
How to Save Your Marriage
I found these 2 youtubes from random posts over the weekend that I liked. Maybe send these to him.

These don't really relate that much to your situation because you want to make it work and he is walking away. I hope they help anyways.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Xena said:


> Why is everyone picking on the OP? All she seems to have done is 'guess' what might be going on for her H, which is normal if he says 'I'mm off for 5 days to find myself, BYE'. Anyone of us would be thinking 'UM WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?!'.
> 
> I think the problem is HIM...he is being FAR more disrespectful by LYING about where he was going! Doesn't that send alarm bells off for anyone here? If he has nothing to hide...why hide where he is? And lying to your partner is just disgusting, shows no love or respect at all. I hope you make it clear his behaviour is totally unacceptable LostNLonley! And I'd want proof of where he's been these 5 days...!!


Because he left for a reason. He said he had to get away from 'the situation.' What situation IS there at home, except his wife?

Look, I am NOT trying to tear her down. I keep telling her that. I keep telling her that - cheating/lying aside - if he really is questioning staying married because of his WIFE, then his WIFE needs to question why.

If my husband told me he's thinking of leaving me, my first question would be 'what is it about our marriage that you don't like?'

How else can the marriage become what WOULD keep him, than to take a hard look at the marriage and see what needs to change?

She could just as easily decide she doesn't want HIM, and then we'd be telling her to tell HIM what HE is doing wrong so he has an opportunity to change himself if he wants to keep her. 

Is he cheating? Maybe. Is he lying? Looks like it. But if you want to fix the marriage, ask yourself WHY he is lying. He's already made it abundantly clear that she stressed him out, that he needs to be away from her, that he doesn't TRUST her to not chase after him and -thus - not telling her where he is so she CAN'T. 

Why would he not trust her, if something hadn't already happened, a pattern even, where he feels he knows how she's going to act and is protecting himself?

I'm not saying she's a bad person, or she needs a brain transplant or anything. I'm saying her husband has one foot out the door and, if she wants to keep him, her BEST chance of keeping him is asking herself the hard question: WHY does he want out of this marriage?

If it's infidelity...whole other ball of wax. But for now, we have no proof of that. We do have proof of him needing to be away from his _wife_. So, find out what about his wife - OP - that he feels he needs to be away from, and address it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> I appreciate your help. And you are right. *He has a problem* with how I am, *which he feels is a result of his mistake 4 years ago*, so *he blames the whole thing on himself*. [DJ: He may SAY that, but you really have no idea what he's really thinking.}It hurts to hear him say he loves me but doesn't need me. *I think he's mad now*.[DJ: You don't know what he's thinking.} *He won't do any lovebuster thing right now.* [DJ: You don't know if he will or won't because you didn't ask him.} Problem is, I don't know how to give him a reason to stay. *I am almost positive he'll be packing tomorrow* [DJ: You have no clue what he'll be doing.} to leave as soon as he gets back.
> 
> *I am also pretty sure he lied about the whole time away*. [DJ: You weren't with him so you have no clue where he was, so you don't know if he lied.} He told me he went to a town about 3 hours north, but he didn't know the town name just what it was near. Refused to give me hotel name or number, etc. That was Fri night, horrible conversation. Sent me a text later saying he was sorry and that he hates that this is what we have turned into and to know that he loves me. Then he texted me late Saturday and said he hoped I was alright and asked where we were and told me again he's sorry things are the way they are and that he loves me. I waited a few hours to respond and then just said I was fine and I loved him too. Short and simple, but didn't say where I was. Haven't heard from him since.
> 
> I went away for the weekend and had a great time. Just got home tonight. He's supposed to be home tomorrow. I looked at our bank records and he got money from an atm yesterday, an hour west of here (no where near where he said he was, and not on the way back), and then he got gas today in the town where his parents live (20 min from us). Probably spent the day with his parents. They hadn't heard from him as of 3pm yesterday. *I think he lied the whole time.*[DJ: You don't know; you aren't him.} *One of his typical, "Lie now, deal with it later" deals *[DJ: You decide what you believe based on your own perceptions.} that are a big love buster for me. I hope he talks to them about it all, and his mom knows everything because I talked to her Friday. Problem is, whenever he talks to them they don't give advice, they just support him in whatever he wants to do. *Which makes him feel like running to their house.*[DJ: You have no idea why he goes home; maybe he likes their chicken soup.} This sucks. My poor kids haven't talked to their dad all weekend.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

anx said:


> For what its worth, I think you are doing the right thing. Start walking away, but tell him you are still open to MC and would be willing to work with him to make it work.
> 
> I'm sad every time I read your posts. I really think with MC you guys could be happy.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your sympathy and support. I'm so sad. This is the worst thing I've ever been through. I feel like I'm walking into the unknown. He knows I've been open to MC, but I guess at this point I'm attempting to act indifferent. I guess if he questions it I'll have to tell him I'm detaching out of necessity. I can't make him want to do anything about this situation. I've tried and tried, but there's something else going on. 

He probably won't watch the videos or read any posts. He's just out of it. I'm pretty sure this time away didn't help anything. His mom texted me that he sent her a text saying he's hurting. Then he called her, so she just texted me and said he'll be home today. I asked if he was okay and she just said as okay as he can be. She then said she told him she and I were talking and that he loves me. But it was short, so I bet she knows more. I need lots of courage and strength. I want to just stay here at work so I don't have to go home...either to him or to an empty house to wait for him.

I always thought we'd be okay. But now I just don't know. I'm losing hope. Because I'm realizing that I MIGHT be better off without him in my life, dragging me along and lying to me about who knows what. The trust might be too far broken at this point. And I don't like living like that. And truth is, he doesn't seem willing to do anything about it. 


Turnera~ I do understand where you're coming from, and I should clarify that while it seems he's getting away from me, it really is about the whole situation. Not being self-centered and saying "it isn't me" but it is what this situation has become. Throughout our marriage and relationship, we've had ups and downs. When he had his EA it was due to not feeling wanted or loved, he needed attention. I fixed that. We were happy. This situation of constant fighting is due to my insecurity, which is a result of his dishonesty. I'm insecure because I can't believe anything he says. He'll justify it by saying he's trying to protect me and I don't have anything to worry about, but then flat out lie to me, so how to I take anything at face value? 

Just so everyone knows, if he IS cheating, he is out. I always said I would never put up with it, and the EA was like a wake up call. I do think that some marriages can recover from infidelity. But I've gotten to realize some things about my H, and the trust is already so broken, so that it would not be recoverable. I will update later. Not sure if he will even want to talk tonight. I'm hoping my indifference works. I'm fighting back tears right now, so we'll see. Wish me luck.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> Originally Posted by LonelyNLost View Post
> I appreciate your help. And you are right. He has a problem with how I am, which he feels is a result of his mistake 4 years ago, so he blames the whole thing on himself. [DJ: He may SAY that, but you really have no idea what he's really thinking.}It hurts to hear him say he loves me but doesn't need me. I think he's mad now.[DJ: You don't know what he's thinking.} He won't do any lovebuster thing right now. [DJ: You don't know if he will or won't because you didn't ask him.} Problem is, I don't know how to give him a reason to stay. I am almost positive he'll be packing tomorrow [DJ: You have no clue what he'll be doing.} to leave as soon as he gets back.
> 
> I am also pretty sure he lied about the whole time away. [DJ: You weren't with him so you have no clue where he was, so you don't know if he lied.} He told me he went to a town about 3 hours north, but he didn't know the town name just what it was near. Refused to give me hotel name or number, etc. That was Fri night, horrible conversation. Sent me a text later saying he was sorry and that he hates that this is what we have turned into and to know that he loves me. Then he texted me late Saturday and said he hoped I was alright and asked where we were and told me again he's sorry things are the way they are and that he loves me. I waited a few hours to respond and then just said I was fine and I loved him too. Short and simple, but didn't say where I was. Haven't heard from him since.
> ...


If he SAYS he feels a certain way, why would I not believe it? I said how I feel like he’s being honest when he lets certain emotions out. He isn’t an open book. Listening to everything he says, it sounds like he is sorry and takes the blame. He says how much it hurts that I take any blame at all. I have asked him what I can change and he says nothing. If you go down my inbox of texts on my phone, every message has the same basic theme; “I’m sorry. I’m self-defeated. I’m an emotional wreck. I love you, please don’t question that.”

I said I THINK he’s mad now, which is based on our last conversation. And the way he’s acting. I can think certain things and that’s not a disrespectful judgement. And he won’t do the lovebuster survey, I’ve asked. Most he’s done is read the 5 Love Languages. 

I am making predictions based on what I know and the evidence provided. That’s not judging him or his thoughts/feelings.

I am also feeling like he did lie about the whole time based on what evidence I have. It isn’t a foregone conclusion, but you have to admit things don’t look good. I don’t know how he’ll attempt to smooth this all over. But I’m sort of immune to it now. You are right in that I’m not him, so I don’t know if he lied for sure. Probably never will. Just have the evidence I have. He does “Lie Now, Deal Later” and admits it. I believe what I perceive to be truth, which is very little lately. 

I would run home to if I knew it was safe there. He doesn’t run off all the time, that’s just where he’ll go when/if we separate. I lived this already a few weeks ago. He’s also told me those things. 

I’m just confused as to how I’m wrong for guessing what he’s doing or thinking or feeling. I’m not admitting it as evidence into a court of law. It’s human nature. It’s what people do. You can’t fault me for that. 

Anyhow, he is at home right now. I’m trying to hold my head high, but I’m already holding back tears. Any advice on how to not cry? How to stay indifferent? I just asked if he wanted more time alone and I’d take the kids somewhere and he just said we can’t avoid each other and I can come home.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I guess I don't understand. WHAT situation? Your fighting? Your insecurity? Your not making him feel loved? What other situation IS there? Help me understand.

fwiw, if he's a compulsive liar, there's a reason, buried down deep, that has to do with his childhood. Maybe, instead of attacking him about lying to YOU, you could talk to him about why he feels safer lying in general. ASK him about his childhood. Help him uncover situations where he found himself lying to get out of getting punished (or whatever his reason was), help him talk this stuff out, maybe even suggest an IC for that, but show him that you AREN'T his mother - he shouldn't have to lie to you. But, he'll need evidence of that, you know - that you won't 'punish' him for lying. Otherwise, he'll just keep on doing it. Each of us, we do what protects US.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> I guess I don't understand. WHAT situation? Your fighting? Your insecurity? Your not making him feel loved? What other situation IS there? Help me understand.
> 
> fwiw, if he's a compulsive liar, there's a reason, buried down deep, that has to do with his childhood. Maybe, instead of attacking him about lying to YOU, you could talk to him about why he feels safer lying in general. ASK him about his childhood. Help him uncover situations where he found himself lying to get out of getting punished (or whatever his reason was), help him talk this stuff out, maybe even suggest an IC for that, but show him that you AREN'T his mother - he shouldn't have to lie to you. But, he'll need evidence of that, you know - that you won't 'punish' him for lying. Otherwise, he'll just keep on doing it. Each of us, we do what protects US.


The situation being the tension in the house, the fighting, the constant eggshells and him feeling like he can't do anything right. Him seeing me cry. Him not knowing what to do and being so afraid either way. Just dealing with it 24/7. He says his mind is always racing a million miles an hour and he doesn't know what to do. 

I did tell you how we decided to work on things and it got a lot better. But then when he went out of town, my insecurity peaked, he started to feel defeated, and then it became a huge downhill turn. I was trying to communicate with him, but he saw it as a slap in the face. He was working to rebuild with baby steps, but didn't communicate it to me. I wanted to communicate, he got defensive and fought. It's like he always has a guilty conscience about everything. When we would go out and have fun, he'd say it felt fake. I can't be happy and I can't be sad, because he takes it personal. If I'm happy, he's sad. If I'm sad, he's happy. The dynamic is so WEIRD. The cycle is the same. We're cruising along, something pops up that makes me insecure, he lies, I found out the lie, I feel betrayed, he feels defeated. I snoop. He lies. I find out. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. I'm insecure due to his lies, and he lies to prevent the insecurity. See the insanity in that? What can I do? I stopped all the lovebusters weeks ago. No fighting. Just being there for him. DawnD gave me some really great advice and made me see how I was all up in his face about it all. I pushed him away. And he didn't respond how I wanted. 

I don't really know how else to put it into words. He's an only child, so I don't know about any deep rooted issues that make him feel like lying is a good option. We had this conversation about how the lies make me feel and what they say to me. He said he doesn't lie intentionally it just happens.  I've tried to make him see how important honesty and openness are to me. He's just withdrawn out of fear of doing something or saying something wrong. But he's still lying to avoid confrontation. Caught between a rock and a hard place. For sure. 

He says he's not a compulsive liar, but I pointed out how it does it all the time, even to others. They ask him for a ride, he makes up an excuse instead of just saying no. He does it with the kids. Everyone. He doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so he lies. Doesn't want to face consequences, so he lies. And he also has this messed up view of trust. He thinks once it's gone it's gone for good. Now my 8 year-old is lying about dumb things. Like telling his friends he went somewhere he didn't even though he knows I teach at his school and they'll ask me, which they did. I guess where we went wasn't cool enough.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I guess the best thing you can do is be the strong one, as hard as it is. You KNOW that he feels like a failure; truth is, this is VERY common among men. They aren't like us. They don't talk; they just do. They fix things. But women...they're like an alien species to men, who have no clue why we behave the way we do; and the longer you're married, the more baggage there is, the honey-dos, the not-tonight because you upset me, the more past thrown in your face...

From what I've gathered over the years, many men simply build up a wall of protection because they figure no matter WHAT they do, the woman will always find something wrong, will always nag, will always cry...and he'll end up feeling like a failure. His work, his friends, those will feel safe. But at home...no way.

You're the one here learning, so my best advice is be the strong one for now. Pull back on your emotions. Use your logic instead. Think of him like another kid - you don't let 'yourself' get in the way of dealing with that kid, right? Do that for your husband for now. Women are often the stronger one in times of crisis; show that side of yourself. Be logical. SHOW him the way out of this, working together, with a MC who can help you two learn to talk to each other and stop pushing buttons. 

When I said compulsive liar, I didn't mean it in terms of him being a bad person. I meant it just the way you describe - to get out of trouble. It's a learned response from childhood. It's not that he doesn't want to hurt others' feelings - it's that he doesn't want YOU guys to 'think badly' of HIM. It is _self protection._ Inside, he's a scared little kid. Help him learn that he can change that part of him; get the IC to help. He may have to face some demons there, likely with his parents. But it will be good for both of you.

And Dawn was right - you have to pull back and STOP being emotional; you KNOW that that is what makes him retreat into his cave, so shelve it for now.

Good luck! You can do this!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> I guess the best thing you can do is be the strong one, as hard as it is. You KNOW that he feels like a failure; truth is, this is VERY common among men. They aren't like us. They don't talk; they just do. They fix things. But women...they're like an alien species to men, who have no clue why we behave the way we do; and the longer you're married, the more baggage there is, the honey-dos, the not-tonight because you upset me, the more past thrown in your face...
> 
> From what I've gathered over the years, many men simply build up a wall of protection because they figure no matter WHAT they do, the woman will always find something wrong, will always nag, will always cry...and he'll end up feeling like a failure. His work, his friends, those will feel safe. But at home...no way.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Makes total sense. I'm going home now.  You are spot on with a lot of things. The wall, goodness the WALL! Definitely.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Okay, yesterday was the worst day of my life. I got home, he was playing with our daughter, said hello to my son and sort of just waved hello to me. Then I sat on the couch but felt awkward so I went to the table and started doing work. He came in and sat down and asked if I was ignoring him. I said I didn't know what to say. Then he starts saying he wants to know why I said some things I said on Friday. He goes into how the whole 5 days away he thought about a lot of things, but mostly realized that he hates himself. He blames himself for everything. He holds me on a pedestal and thinks I'm the most amazing woman in the world, but he can't be enough for me. Anything I do that's negative is because of him and his actions 4 years ago and since. 

He looked in the mirror and self-reflected and realized that he is a failure and he can't continue to fail me. He says we've grown apart and he's accepted that. He has nothing left to give. He loves me more than I'll ever know and that's why he's willing to leave and let me move on.  I asked him if he could look me in the eyes and say "It's over" and he said he couldn't because it's too final and he just doesn't know. Everything I asked him, from probing around to see how to proceed from here to just the day to day, the answer was "I don't know". He's very depressed. I begged him to go see an individual counselor, and he said no way. I asked him, for my sake since he loves me so much, to go try a marriage counselor just once. He said he can't. He can't risk them blaming me for anything. Because it's all his fault. 

This is really horrible and I don't know what to do. I feel like I need to detach, but not in a 180 kind of way. A 180 would do nothing but make him feel like I'm over him. He doesn't know if he should move out, but he did say he can't deal with all the tension. He acknowledges things I say, but he is full and well ready to be the "bad guy" and have all my friends and family hate him, because as he says "no one can hate me more than I hate myself." I can only love him and tell him he is perfect, but it falls on deaf ears. I never imagined my marriage would fall apart like this. I realized a little too late that when I thought I was helping us by talking about how to communicate better or meet each other needs, he was taking it as criticism. I've torn him down, and he's torn him down. The sad thing is, he never told me. And he recognizes this. And in reality, I'm not a nagging wife, I don't really criticize him. I can see what I've done that has torn him down, and it probably isn't anything like what you'd imagine. 

So where do I go from here? I can't MAKE him see a counselor. I am worried about him and his state of mind. He says he wouldn't commit suicide because that's the ultimate selfish act, but he can't give any more, he has nothing left. He can't say he'll try because he's empty. He has no hope.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow, that's a tough one. 

First, we do have to discuss the possibility he's met someone else, so DO do some snooping. Check his phone records for a common number you don't know. If he took his computer with him, check its history.

After that, and assuming you don't find anything (let us know if you do - whole other direction if you do), let's move on to what he told you. My best guess would be to try to keep him in the house as long as possible, so you have time to make 'home' as pleasant and unthreatening as possible. YOU get yourself to an IC as soon as posslble and explain the situation and ask for help in how to change how you deal with him, look for subtle ways to help build him back up. See if you can go once a week, cos the next few weeks will be the most important for saving your marriage.

This is all about him feeling safe, and not feeling harmful. 

Whatever you do, do NOT talk about the relationship. At all. Or about leaving. The more you bring it up, the faster he will run. Focus on making 'home' be as pleasant as possible. without it being obvious that you are doing so. Don't act weird or different, but do keep an eye on those things you used to do that made him feel guilty and STOP doing them!

In other words, avoid the Love Busters! Ask him again to fill it out, since he won't go to counseling. Tell him that you just need to know specifically what you did so you can fix YOURSELF - don't say it's to keep him. If he needs to believe you'll let him leave, let him, for now. If he still won't fill it out, fill it out yourself to the best of your ability, and then make a concerted effort to stop all those LBs you can figure out.

In his state of mind, it's all about avoiding unhappiness (LBs), more than meeting his needs (ENs). So focus on that. 

Give him a little space, as hard as it is, by not pressing him about this decision. Respect his decision; that will make him feel safer to stay around you. And hopefully give you time to bring him back around.

This is not undoable, but it's going to take a LOT of work on YOUR part to make him feel safe and NOT a monster. Read some books about how men end up feeling like failures in a man/woman relationship. You still have a chance.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> Wow, that's a tough one.
> 
> First, we do have to discuss the possibility he's met someone else, so DO do some snooping. Check his phone records for a common number you don't know. If he took his computer with him, check its history.
> 
> ...


I can say with 100% certainty that there's no one else. I know him, I really do. And we discussed that. Basically, snooping or even insinuating that there's a possibility of that is a big LB! So I have to trust him on this one. 

Thanks for the advice. I was torn whether to tell him to go or let him stay. I asked about doing something with the kids this weekend and he asked if we were supposed to just fake it and act like everything's peachy. I was hurt by this and told him to just go and I went to the bedroom. He came in and said that was an actual valid question. I said I didn't know. 

Part of me feels like he needs some sort of motivation to realize what's at stake. I thought about and mentioned to him about going to stay with his parents and live like we're separated for a certain period of time, to see what he'd be missing. He just says he doesn't know what to do. He truly doesn't. 

I'll try again with the lovebusters questionnaire. But I feel like me mentioning the problems and wanting to work on them pushes him away further. I can try to make home pleasant by acting cheery, but then he takes that the wrong way. It's a big catch 22, really is. All I can do is try. I've told him I understand where he's at and I worry about him. I've told him all I can do is stand by and be there for him. And I hope we've got a chance, but I feel like it's one in a million at this point. It's hard to have hope right now.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, yesterday was the worst day of my life. I got home, he was playing with our daughter, said hello to my son and sort of just waved hello to me. Then I sat on the couch but felt awkward so I went to the table and started doing work. He came in and sat down and asked if I was ignoring him. I said I didn't know what to say. Then he starts saying he wants to know why I said some things I said on Friday. He goes into how the whole 5 days away he thought about a lot of things, but mostly realized that he hates himself. He blames himself for everything. He holds me on a pedestal and thinks I'm the most amazing woman in the world, but he can't be enough for me. Anything I do that's negative is because of him and his actions 4 years ago and since.


manipulation, to avoid talking about the real issues and once again twisting things so you feel bad for him. then he won't have to talk about the fact that what he did is very wrong.



> He looked in the mirror and self-reflected and realized that he is a failure and he can't continue to fail me. He says we've grown apart and he's accepted that. He has nothing left to give. He loves me more than I'll ever know and that's why he's willing to leave and let me move on.  I asked him if he could look me in the eyes and say "It's over" and he said he couldn't because it's too final and he just doesn't know. Everything I asked him, from probing around to see how to proceed from here to just the day to day, the answer was "I don't know". He's very depressed. I begged him to go see an individual counselor, and he said no way. I asked him, for my sake since he loves me so much, to go try a marriage counselor just once. He said he can't. He can't risk them blaming me for anything. Because it's all his fault.


Rubbish, he wants to be able to leave or do whatever he wants and he doesn't want negative consequences. he loves having you be the one to feel bad about what he has done.


> This is really horrible and I don't know what to do. I feel like I need to detach, but not in a 180 kind of way. A 180 would do nothing but make him feel like I'm over him. He doesn't know if he should move out, but he did say he can't deal with all the tension. He acknowledges things I say, but he is full and well ready to be the "bad guy" and have all my friends and family hate him, because as he says "no one can hate me more than I hate myself." I can only love him and tell him he is perfect, but it falls on deaf ears. I never imagined my marriage would fall apart like this. I realized a little too late that when I thought I was helping us by talking about how to communicate better or meet each other needs, he was taking it as criticism. I've torn him down, and he's torn him down. The sad thing is, he never told me. And he recognizes this. And in reality, I'm not a nagging wife, I don't really criticize him. I can see what I've done that has torn him down, and it probably isn't anything like what you'd imagine.


Even if you had been critical, you have every right, he has been unfaithful.

you are completely at the mercy of a master manipulator.



> So where do I go from here? I can't MAKE him see a counselor. I am worried about him and his state of mind. He says he wouldn't commit suicide because that's the ultimate selfish act, but he can't give any more, he has nothing left. He can't say he'll try because he's empty. He has no hope.


No you can't, but you can stop blaming yourself for his actions. He needs to own those and take responsibility instead of twisting things and whimping out. He knows how to manipulate you to his advantage, and you are falling for it.

he hasn't been giving by the sounds of it, he just wants you to think he has, but, he wouldn't do what it took to make your marriage work, just what suited him. And he's still doing that.

Do not wait one more day to reclaim your self respect, tell him he needs to stop the self pity act, because he has inflicted this on himself and you, and if he feels bad he shoul.

Let him know you won't be treated that way one minute longer and that he has lied and been disrespectful ( I fully believe cheating), and you still didn't check out of the marriage he did. 

Tell him either he's 100% in or you are 100% out and you will not be disrespected and cop his ridiculous excuses again.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

And this is where I'm stuck. You two have very differing opinions. I, however, know my H and can see the remorse in his eyes. I can't see it as manipulating. He's just not that good. I have thought about tough love, but in his mood I'm afraid it would justify what he's thought about him not deserving me. He would say I was right and he should leave and that I don't deserve to be treated like this. He doesn't have anything left to give. 

Or, I could try to help him help us, by working on slowly building his self image back up. Maybe he'll come around, maybe he won't. But at least he won't doubt my love for him. 

I feel like something has got to motivate him to want to work this out. Right now, the only motivating factor is his self hate and the love he feels for me. I've got to get to the bottom of why he feels leaving would be better for ME.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I really feel as though he's copping out...he's using "I love you" as an excuse for too much. He is unwilling to do absolutely nothing to try to repair this marriage, he's leaving it all on your shoulders, while he pulls the "poor me, I screwed everything up and now I'm a piece of s**t" crap. It's BS. 

I agree...YOU need counseling in order to learn how to deal better with this situation. If you really believe he loves you, then there is a smidgen of hope. Very little, considering his complete lack of willingness to participate. 

I would have responded "YES", when he asked if y'all should just fake it this weekend. You bet. You fake it until you can get something else figured out. He is placing the full burden and responsibility for "fixing" this marriage squarely on your shoulders, while he engages in self-hate. He is being ridiculously selfish here. This is why you need counseling for yourself. 

For the time being..just let it go. Avoid those "trigger" questions. Even his. You were trying to disengage, and he asks you if you're ignoring him. He's trying to engage you in yet another fruitless discussion, that he has no intention of fully cooperating in. 

Please get some professional help with this. I believe this is beyond what the "cyber world" can do for you. And I'm sorry you're so sad. I would be feeling totally beaten down by all of this. It's one thing to have someone actively engaging in the r-ship, even if it's fighting about it. At least both are doing *something*. His totally checking out and leaving everything on your shoulders is not only unfair, it's beyond unreasonable.


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

Syrum said:


> manipulation, to avoid talking about the real issues and once again twisting things so you feel bad for him. then he won't have to talk about the fact that what he did is very wrong.
> 
> 
> Rubbish, he wants to be able to leave or do whatever he wants and he doesn't want negative consequences. he loves having you be the one to feel bad about what he has done.
> ...


I completely agree Lonely,

I think this man is being HIGHLY manipulative. This "I'm a failure and I don't want to keep on disappointing you" act is an easy way for him to squirm out of the marriage without being totally honest with you. He doesn't want to deal with the real issue, whatever it is (I am very suspicious that it's another woman) and he wants to avoid talking.

Did you ask him why he lied and said he was in a different part of the state than he really was? Did he answer directly without evasion? I think he's playing you and I think he's the type who will NOT deal with the problem because it's too uncomfortable for HIM. 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this treatment...this is such passive aggressive behavior and he's acting like a total child.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Myopia1964 said:


> I completely agree Lonely,
> 
> I think this man is being HIGHLY manipulative. This "I'm a failure and I don't want to keep on disappointing you" act is an easy way for him to squirm out of the marriage without being totally honest with you. He doesn't want to deal with the real issue, whatever it is (I am very suspicious that it's another woman) and he wants to avoid talking.
> 
> ...


I agree. Surprise him by agreeing with him. "You're right. You've made a lot of mistakes and you're making another one right now. If you're going to play the victim like this, I don't want to be around you. I'll be willing to discuss our issues as soon as the victim act ends." 

Way easier said than done, I know.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

WhereAmI said:


> I agree. Surprise him by agreeing with him. "You're right. You've made a lot of mistakes and you're making another one right now. If you're going to play the victim like this, I don't want to be around you. I'll be willing to discuss our issues as soon as the victim act ends."
> 
> Way easier said than done, I know.



I agree with those who state manipulative. Somehow he screws up and it's up to you to fix it. Might not even be intentional, might be mental illness - but still up to him to fix himself.
i
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There was a poster over at MB who had a similar issue with her husband; withdraw, withdraw, withdraw. He even went so far as to ask to break up. But she refused to acknowledge that the reason he was withdrawing was the way she was interacting with him. Never did own up to her side; I warned her that he was going to leave her if she didn't at least look at herself. Why should she? HE was the jerk. HE had better change, or else. So, one day, he DID change. He left. Was that manipulative? He was saying the exact same things as Lonely's husband. He was telling the same lies to keep out of trouble. He was a conflict avoider, so he just kept dealing with her half...until he just couldn't any more. She never did accept any responsibility.

Note that I'm not saying Lonely's husband is a victim. I agree he has very poor coping skills - as most of us do. He lies; he avoids; he runs; he even cheats (once). Could he - should he - change? Sure. But she is the one here, supposedly learning how to save a marriage. If she does what you say and just says 'Fine! Leave!' - when she clearly doesn't want him to...guess what's going to happen? She's making his decision for him.

There are two sides to every story. And we're only hearing hers.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

major misfit said:


> I agree...YOU need counseling in order to learn how to deal better with this situation. If you really believe he loves you, then there is a smidgen of hope. Very little, considering his complete lack of willingness to participate.


Please remember that a LOT of people haven't got a feakin' clue how to deal with adversity. Their parents never taught them, or taught them wrong. He was an only child, so I'll bet he never had to own up to anything, never had to fight for anything, never had to tough it out in a bad situation - mommy probably always 'fixed' things for him. 

So, he grows up, faces an uncomfortable situation, what does he do? How should he know? He never had to before. 

IMO, his unwillingness to participate - his wanting to run - is nothing more than his learned response to flee when the situation is untenable.

He can LEARN a better response, with a loving, helpful wife/partner by his side. But as it is, he simply isn't aware of that - he sees only misery or leaving.

Lonely can get help with IC and relay what she learns back to him, if she can keep him home long enough. And when he sees the results, the benefits, I'll bet his willingness will return.


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

turnera said:


> Please remember that a LOT of people haven't got a feakin' clue how to deal with adversity. Their parents never taught them, or taught them wrong. He was an only child, so I'll bet he never had to own up to anything, never had to fight for anything, never had to tough it out in a bad situation - mommy probably always 'fixed' things for him.
> 
> So, he grows up, faces an uncomfortable situation, what does he do? How should he know? He never had to before.
> 
> ...


Turnera,

I respect your opinion but I have to disagree with you. I have read Michele Davis' book _Getting Through to the Man You Love_, and it sounds like you are repeating a lot of her messages. Frankly, I thought her book was full of logical fallacies and I think it's ridiculous to assume that it's up to the one who is most invested in maintaining the relationship (i.e., the woman) to do all the work. REALLY!?? I get the whole behavioral conditioning thing, and the idea that she has to initiate change if she wants him to change. I agree with that, up to a point. But doesn't it go both ways? What I have a problem with is...this is a GROWN MAN...not a child or a puppy! He may not have learned coping skills as a child. He may have been taught that the appropriate response to adversity and pain is to turn around, tuck his tail between his legs, and scurry away as fast as possible. This doesn't mean that he should he allowed to repeat those patterns in adulthood and that Lonely is required to "fix" him. What about his accountability?

If she is engaging in behavior that makes him unhappy, then he should say, to her face, "I'm unhappy in this marriage because of XXX." If he has met someone else, he should say, "I'm not proud of what I've done, but I've met someone else." The running away behavior and the weak excuses this man has given are obviously about avoidance of an uncomfortable situation. If this is the way he has behaved throughout their marriage, OF COURSE Lonely isn't going to respect him or be happy.

If he has problems coping with conflict, then HE has problems coping with conflict, NOT HER. She should not be expected to fix him and he is the one who should go to IC, although I doubt he will. The problem is, this type of behavior is SO deeply rooted in men like this, it is unlikely he is going to change, which leaves her with two choices (1) stay and continue to deal with his inability to communicate and avoidance, (2) salvage what's left of her dignity and find a man who IS a grown up and isn't afraid to deal directly with life. There are plenty of men on this board who would find this behavior to be less than masculine.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Myopia, that's great if she had a husband who would DO that stuff. But she doesn't. And she wants to keep her marriage. She CAN effect changes, and she CAN start showing some boundaries down the road but at this very moment, this week, he's practically gone.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I understand the posters who are screaming "manipulation!!", and I really do understand what Turnera's trying to do here. The OPs husband refuses IC. Turnera's trying to help her keep her husband at home long enough until the OP can work something out, hopefully through her own counseling. Because the OP WANTS to keep her marriage. 

That he's not behaving as a grown man is moot. That he's running away and giving weak excuses is moot. The OP wants to try to salvage her marriage. And I really understand that IF she can keep him home, and get some professional help, there is a possibility it can be done. There is the possibility that as the OPs husband sees the changes in her, HE might be encouraged enough to seek some for himself. Remote as it may be, it's a possibility. 

And maybe I've got it wrong here, but if ONE person in the M has an issue, it becomes both their issues. His inability to cope with conflict affects HER. That means it's not his issue alone. 

Maybe the issues are rooted so deeply they can't be changed...that is something the OP has to decide for herself. And at this current point in time, she's not willing to throw in the towel. She's still trying to fix this marriage. It's unfair that the burden is on her shoulders alone, but this is where it's at. What he SHOULD be doing and what he IS doing are two completely different things. 

I don't see anything undignified in trying everything possible to save your marriage. As far as the other men on this board? She's not married to them.


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

turnera said:


> Myopia, that's great if she had a husband who would DO that stuff. But she doesn't. And she wants to keep her marriage. She CAN effect changes, and she CAN start showing some boundaries down the road but at this very moment, this week, he's practically gone.


That's exactly my point! He WON'T exert any effort. I have to wonder why she would want to keep a marriage with an emotionally unavailable man where she has to do all of the changing. I wonder if her self-esteem has suffered so badly in this situation (and it appears it has) that she begun to accept that it is ok to be treated like this. She can do much better than this guy, in my opinion.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe so, but he is who she wants. That kind of limits her options at this time. 

No one is saying she has to do all the changing; I said she needs to adjust what she's doing for NOW, to get him through this week or two without bolting.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

I appreciate you all sharing your views and advice. I wish some men would chime in here. I can't begin to imagine what he feels like. All I have is what I feel and what he says. I do want to salvage my marriage, because we had so many great years together. This situation has taken a toll, and it's only been going on for a couple months. We were so good together and can be again. I wish he'd agree to just one counseling session. But I'm scheduling one for myself. I am going to talk with his mom tonight. He has talked to her a little, but she knows him best. 

He is just not manipulative, but I can see how there might be another side to the story. It's quite possible that the real story is that he just doesn't love me anymore and can't go on doing this. So in order to "protect" my self image and self esteem he's making himself the bad guy. I don't know. Or he could really feel that defeated as he's taken this time in our marriage really hard. It's been tough. He knows he needs to make changes, but he doesn't know how. He isn't completely emotionally unavailable. He will tell me things when I pry. He acknowledges he needs to learn to communicate. I've made many valid points. He sheds tears and has real hurt. I just don't know how to get through to him and make him hopeful. He sends me a text today saying he's sorry, its no consolation but he is sorry. And that he does think about me and care and love me. But he's sorry he's destroyed me and he's hopeless. 

All I can do is try. All I can do is hold on to the fact that he's not totally made up his mind to leave. That he "doesn't know". But he's not himself, at all. I can't make him do anything or not do something. He isn't always disrespectful, the way he dealt with "finding himself" was disrespectful. But we discussed it. He told me he drove all over, watched the sunset and cried. He did almost go to his parent's house, but he just kept driving. He was all over the state. I do believe him.

But he does feel like a failure. He's said it before. He failed me when he had the EA and crushed me. At that time I was happy and content and he wasn't and instead of communicating he made a mistake. Promised to make things better. They got better, but he doubts if they ever really did. I never let it go, and it damaged him. But now what? I've let it go, admitted my wrongs and how I am going to improve myself. He thinks its too far gone. He doesn't know how to get out of his funk and check back into the marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How about you look into videos you can watch? Surely there are some out there - it wouldn't take going to a counselor, you could do it in your private home. Maybe it would help him have hope, or even see that therapy can be beneficial.

Have you ever looked into Toxic Shame? If he's clinging this hard to avoiding IC, it's possible he has TS and it just won't LET him be that vulnerable in front of someone else. Look it up.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

I know I've posted the same thing every time, but get in MC any way possible. You guys are both talking like you know things are broken and you both know you had a part in it and you you both don't know how to fix it.

GET IN MC ANY WAY POSSIBLE!!!!!!! Threaten to leave, beg, talk to him family, say you'll do chores, anything. ANYTHING.

I agree with turnera. There is online and phone counseling too that you could warm up with.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's an idea. The Harleys over at MB, or affaircare - you can do phone counseling, and he'd never have to see a real person.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

Maybe I can shed a little light from my stand point.



> ...avoidance of an uncomfortable situation.





> If he has problems coping with conflict, then HE has problems coping with conflict, NOT HER. She should not be expected to fix him and he is the one who should go to IC, although I doubt he will. The problem is, this type of behavior is SO deeply rooted in men like this, it is unlikely he is going to change,


Some of this describes me. I had a problem with conflict, so I tried t oavoid it at all costs. I didn't recognize or "wake up" to my part of my marriage failure until it was too late. It took an extreme incident to recognize my part of this and thus start my change.



> He will tell me things when I pry. He acknowledges he needs to learn to communicate.


My communication skills, as well as recognizing the many situations and pleas, were lacking at best. Some of us do not possess these skills, so they must be learned.

Sometimes when my wife pried too much, I felt like that I was backed into a corner. Being backed into a corner was not a good thing for I felt that I had to go into the Defensive mode. This may be my character flaw, or this may be my coping mechanism all haywired. The harder she pushed, the harder I tried to avoid the conflict.

I am not saying that I am like your H, but I am saying that he and I seem to have some similar characteristics. I became complacant in my marriage, this was probably my worst state of mind to be in.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

remmons, that's exactly what I was trying to suggest is going on.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> How about you look into videos you can watch? Surely there are some out there - it wouldn't take going to a counselor, you could do it in your private home. Maybe it would help him have hope, or even see that therapy can be beneficial.
> 
> Have you ever looked into Toxic Shame? If he's clinging this hard to avoiding IC, it's possible he has TS and it just won't LET him be that vulnerable in front of someone else. Look it up.


Any suggestions on videos and where to get them? Not sure if he'd go for it. But if you have suggestions I can try. 

I googled "Toxic Shame" and a lot of it does sound like him. However, it says it's a result of child abuse. The only issue he had as a child was that his real mother abandoned him as a baby. She would come around and then disappear. Dad had custody. I, myself, was in a very similar situation as a child, so I never really saw it as affecting too much of who he is. The difference is, my dad has tried to find me as an adult/teenager and his mom hasn't. And he'd be easy to find. If it is TS, what can be done about that?



anx said:


> I know I've posted the same thing every time, but get in MC any way possible. You guys are both talking like you know things are broken and you both know you had a part in it and you you both don't know how to fix it.
> 
> GET IN MC ANY WAY POSSIBLE!!!!!!! Threaten to leave, beg, talk to him family, say you'll do chores, anything. ANYTHING.
> 
> I agree with turnera. There is online and phone counseling too that you could warm up with.


I know. I begged last night, to do it for me. Just once. He won't let me take any responsibility for where our marriage is. If I take any blame he gets defensive and wants to shoulder it all. He just did it a little while ago via text. Last night, he even said that he wouldn't want to go to MC because he wouldn't let them blame me for anything. 



turnera said:


> That's an idea. The Harleys over at MB, or affaircare - you can do phone counseling, and he'd never have to see a real person.


How do you go about this? I just don't know. I can try. Problem is, my employer will pay for MC, but we don't have any money for stuff outside of that. I know we can't afford not to do this, but he doesn't see it that way.



remmons said:


> Maybe I can shed a little light from my stand point.
> 
> Some of this describes me. I had a problem with conflict, so I tried t oavoid it at all costs. I didn't recognize or "wake up" to my part of my marriage failure until it was too late. *It took an extreme incident to recognize my part of this and thus start my change.*
> 
> ...


Not to pry, but what was the extreme incident? Like something accidental, or an action taken by someone? I feel like he does need something to "wake" him up. You do sound like him. He does the exact same thing with avoiding conflict. That's what all the lying is about. He also gets defensive when we have these conversations or any type of argument. And now it's so much dealing with it because of where we are at that he's shut down completely. All he can do is say he's sorry. 

He's said the same thing about becoming complacent in our marriage. But the problem is that now he thinks it's too late. I don't know how to change his state of mind. What, if you could go back and reflect, would have helped you in those situations where you felt backed into a corner? Was there a different way your wife could have approached you? 

I just don't want it to be too late. I don't think it is. Most of all I love him with all my heart, and I can't stand to bear the thought of him always feeling this way.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

turnera said:


> remmons, that's exactly what I was trying to suggest is going on.


Sometimes it has come from another perspective, like from someone who is/was like that.



LonelyNLost said:


> Any suggestions on videos and where to get them? Not sure if he'd go for it. But if you have suggestions I can try.
> 
> I googled "Toxic Shame" and a lot of it does sound like him. However, it says it's a result of child abuse. The only issue he had as a child was that his real mother abandoned him as a baby. She would come around and then disappear. Dad had custody. I, myself, was in a very similar situation as a child, so I never really saw it as affecting too much of who he is. The difference is, my dad has tried to find me as an adult/teenager and his mom hasn't. And he'd be easy to find. If it is TS, what can be done about that?
> 
> ...


My extreme incident was when she booted me out of the house (it was a mutual agreement for the kids). It was further enhanced when she told me on our last MC that she wanted a divorce......She said it with little emotion or care, or apathy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't know any videos. I was thinking of that Firefox movie, or whatever it's called, that everyone raves about. Google video + counseling + marriage.

I wasn't abused, and I have severe toxic shame. So much that I can't even go in a store if no one else is shopping, for not wanting the owner to look at me. I am defective; I am to be looked down on; to not be expected to accomplish anything...stuff like that. And it was just from being raised in a dysfunctional family. I, too, lied to hide my 'true self' from everyone, assuming that if they knew the real me, they'd run away in disgust and never speak to me again. Sounds a lot like your husband.

What to do? I guess since he won't go to therapy, I'd read up on it - Healing The Shame That Binds You is a great first book. Learn about it, and share what you learned with him. My DH lets me read stuff to him, and he won't go to therapy; but he listens when I tell him what I learned.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

remmons said:


> My extreme incident was when she booted me out of the house (it was a mutual agreement for the kids). It was further enhanced when she told me on our last MC that she wanted a divorce......She said it with little emotion or care, or apathy.


See, that's the one perspective people in here have told me to take. I think it's on the opposite end of the spectrum of what I'm doing or think I need to do. Mostly because I feel like he thinks he should be kicked out. I'm really weighing my options and feeling some things out at this point. 

Last night when he was all "I don't know" about everything, I started to try to get proactive and discuss our options. I told him basically what he had said, that he can't continue to be around here walking on eggshells and things. So he needs to leave. But he kept saying he wasn't planning on leaving last night. I had also told him that if that's the direction things will go (which I think they are) then he needs to sit our son down and discuss it with him and allow him time to process and ask questions before his dad leaves. But then I started saying that maybe he does need to leave, because then maybe the reality of the situation would hit. He could see the kids every other weekend and when he arranges something in advance. There will be no texting or calling me, but he may speak to the kids. He didn't say much, just "I don't know". I did respond last night when he asked if we should act fake when I suggested doign something as a family, I said to go ahead and move out then. (out of anger) He just stayed there for a moment as I left the room and then came in and talked with me for a minute. I just don't know if I want to go that direction.



turnera said:


> I don't know any videos. I was thinking of that Firefox movie, or whatever it's called, that everyone raves about. Google video + counseling + marriage.
> 
> I wasn't abused, and I have severe toxic shame. So much that I can't even go in a store if no one else is shopping, for not wanting the owner to look at me. I am defective; I am to be looked down on; to not be expected to accomplish anything...stuff like that. And it was just from being raised in a dysfunctional family. I, too, lied to hide my 'true self' from everyone, assuming that if they knew the real me, they'd run away in disgust and never speak to me again. Sounds a lot like your husband.
> 
> What to do? I guess since he won't go to therapy, I'd read up on it - Healing The Shame That Binds You is a great first book. Learn about it, and share what you learned with him. My DH lets me read stuff to him, and he won't go to therapy; but he listens when I tell him what I learned.


Do you mean Fireproof? I read that book months ago and we watched the movie. He said it was good, but a little religious. I'll google videos. I know youtube has a ton of short clips.

Is toxic shame common? Thanks for sharing your story. I have always seen him as a fairly confident person. I guess his trigger event could be the EA. And things I'd always done and said didn't affect him until after that event. Or it could be feeling like he was unloved by his real mother affected him. Not sure. I did see that book in searching and was about to order it. He probably won't read it. But maybe he'll listen to me. I printed out some stuff for him to read.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

"I don't know" is the typical response when you have shut down, decided not to share yourself any more. He DOES know, he just doesn't trust you or himself anymore not to turn what he does know into something painful. So he says nothing. Hangdog face.

Yeah, toxic shame is very common. fwiw, I appear very confident to the outside world. I work VERY hard at it. No one must know my 'dark secrets,' you see, or they would hate me as much as I do. It's such a person's lifelong goal to keep anyone from ever knowing the true person inside. According to my IC, mine just came from being the youngest, watching mom and dad spend so much effort on my older brother who was a handful, and fearing that they'd get rid of me if I was so much trouble, on top of him. Things like that are complicated.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> "I don't know" is the typical response when you have shut down, decided not to share yourself any more. He DOES know, he just doesn't trust you or himself anymore not to turn what he does know into something painful. So he says nothing. Hangdog face.


So "I don't know" means he is trying to spare me the pain of telling the truth? Or he's shut off his own feelings? Or is this where the toxic shame comes in? He has even said to me that if he says nothing, then there can't be an issue. Which is wrong in principle, but his logic. 

He's texted me a few times today, but I tried to call him and he didn't answer. Then I texted him and he said it didn't ring. And told me he hoped I had a good day. WTF? It's so hard to keep trying. I talked to his mom tonight for a bit, and she thinks we need a trial separation but with MC being the trade off. He's not willing to TRY anything. So what good is it doing for us to both be here walking on eggshells. What can change when I'm the only one trying to change? I'm so discouraged. 

Oh and I made an appointment for IC next Wednesday. But I'm not going to tell him. I'm afraid as he'll see it as an out because I'll have that support if he leaves.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

How To Find Affordable Marriage Counseling


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> So "I don't know" means he is trying to spare me the pain of telling the truth? Or he's shut off his own feelings? Or is this where the toxic shame comes in? He has even said to me that if he says nothing, then there can't be an issue. Which is wrong in principle, but his logic.


You've already answered your own question.

Personally I think he's crazy about you. But he is so depressed and so hopeless in being able to be able to make you happy, that he'd rather disappear than look at your face any more. 

If you have it in you, rein yourself in for a couple weeks. As I said, you'd do it for your kids; do it for him. Let him heal; let him be around you with no expectations; just try to be friends again.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> You've already answered your own question.
> 
> Personally I think he's crazy about you. But he is so depressed and so hopeless in being able to be able to make you happy, that he'd rather disappear than look at your face any more.
> 
> If you have it in you, rein yourself in for a couple weeks. As I said, you'd do it for your kids; do it for him. Let him heal; let him be around you with no expectations; just try to be friends again.



Well, we had another conversation last night. It lasted about 2 hours. He said he'd been thinking a lot about what I'd said the previous night. And the only thing out of all I've said, his mom's said, and he's said, that makes the most sense is to maybe have him go stay with his parents for a bit so that we can relieve some of the tension in the house. We didn't come to any decisions, but when I said maybe he needs to see what it would feel like for this to end, and he didn't respond, I guess it's because it hit home. He said he needs some kind of motivation to decide what he needs to do. I said that I thought it might be a good idea. He then said, that on Saturday nights maybe we can have someone watch the kids and go on dates, where we don't talk about the relationship. No expectations, just try to go be friends again. I'm really hopeful that he came up with this stipulation. He also feels like he could maybe open up to his mom. So I told him we need to figure out what the ground rules will be and how it will work. 

When I suggested that the trade off be marriage counseling, he did just come out and say I can't pressure him to go, he's just not ready to do that. I can tell that he doesn't want to leave, but I brought up the point of how it would give our emotions a little bit of a break and we could talk online. He was open to that. So, he doesn't want to just go cold turkey, he wants to be able to leave work and go to a safe haven where he won't have to feel the way he's feeling. I think, at this point, this is a good option. I don't like it, but it's necessary and in this conversation, it's the first time he said, "I'm willing to try." It's positive that he wants to date me to work on us, and I think the premise being that afterwards we don't come home and then him fear some kind of conversation. The expectations are lowered. I'm going to talk to his mom tonight and see what her suggestions are. One day at a time...


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

ok I have read the entire thread, and you wanted some "man input"...

Stop seeking answers, stop pressuring him, stop chasing him and for heavens sake, stop bringing up the past and talking about the realtionship.

You have made a massive break through by him wanting to "Date" you.

Reconnect liek when you did when you first got together, do some of those things, hang out have fun, and at the same time do not begin to even think about talking about you two.

Example,

Suggest going out for some fun like a movie, meal, hell go watch an ice hocky game or something. Something where you can be you two, and forget everything else.

I honestly believe he does really truely love you, that insecurity you have and constantly bringing it up WILL push him away further (I am not in anyway condoning his previous actions, whats happened has happened, leave it their now).

He could well be constantly and persistantly beating himself up over what he did, don't remind him. Anything you do to snoop, question his feelings and check up on him and beg him are ALL reminders of what he did.

Just start by having fun together, play silly games, like go for a walk in the park and suggest who can come up with the most "Famous lookilikies"...

My partner was so untrusting and jellous at the beginning I nearly walked away, but didn't beacuse I didn't want to hurt her, she learned over time to suppress it, and she learned that by having fun.

Don't call his mom either, she will tell him, and it will also feel like your checking up on him.

You need to relax, slow right down and between you, just have some fun to connect and NO talk about the past or future. after a few weeks of fun (if you can do that), maybe bring in the 5 love languages etc.

Don't give up, but at the same time, DO NOT PUSH, PULL and control your feelings.

If I can guess his head right now, you have pushed so much, reminded him so much, he wants to walk, but hasn't got the balls to do so, but he will find them if you continue to remind him and push to control your insecurities. You need to learn how to control them YOURSELF...

The fact that he has agreed to a few things shows postive signs, the fact he still keeps telling you he loves you, and holds you on a pedestal, ALL GOOD SIGNS. Believe him, otherwise the next move for him will be, why do I say these things, She don't believe me, and on his past showing, this is still one thing he consistently tells you, and is probably one short step of stopping that too.

I really feel for you, I know how much this is hurting (beleive me I do), you need to really control yourself right now. Although its selfish what he is doing, you can only change you. Changes in you just may very well bring changes in him. WHat you won't do is change him whilst not changing you..

Good Luck

I will/am routing for you


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds promising. The one thing I would do at this point is read read read. Read everything you can get your hands on, and then, as the chance comes up, relay what you've learned. No doubt a big chunk of what you're learning will be about what YOU can change in the way YOU deal with HIM. It's pretty much played out like I told you it would - he's not a jerk, he just wants safety and to not feel bad any more. If the two of you can learn to interact safely, he will feel safer to open up to you, and you'll have a great relationship. 

Neil has it right.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Neil said:


> I honestly believe he does really truely love you, that insecurity you have and constantly bringing it up WILL push him away further (I am not in anyway condoning his previous actions, whats happened has happened, leave it their now).
> 
> He could well be constantly and persistantly beating himself up over what he did, don't remind him. Anything you do to snoop, question his feelings and check up on him and beg him are ALL reminders of what he did.
> 
> The fact that he has agreed to a few things shows postive signs, the fact he still keeps telling you he loves you, and holds you on a pedestal, ALL GOOD SIGNS. Believe him, otherwise the next move for him will be, why do I say these things, She don't believe me, and on his past showing, this is still one thing he consistently tells you, and is probably one short step of stopping that too.


Neil, you're a saint. Thanks for reading this novel. I also appreciate your input. I have to say though, that I've been talking to his mom for some time. I can't talk to my own because I'm afraid of her judging him, and his mom has always been a great listener and impartial party. I know it sounds like she couldn't be, but she understands based on her relationship with her husband, because believe me when I say, "Like father, like son!" 

I feel much better today. And you are exactly right about him thinking I question his love for me. He will send me texts that say, "Sorry for where we are. Please know that I love you, even though you doubt it." A few weeks ago, separation was a scary thing that I thought meant the end. And now I can see it as sad, but still a change. I want him to feel safe with me and I want to reconnect. He'll possibly open up to his mom, and she can offer him insight based on the fact that she's talking to both of us. And his dad can help him with the stress from work. I hope it helps him snap out of this funk. 

I've taken your advice to heart and I agree with all of it. It makes total sense is exactly the things that he's hinted around about but have not just come out and said. I guess it's just hard as a woman to want to know what is going on and what he's thinking and how he could feel so defeated and be hopeless. And how he can withhold affection and stop doing the sweet things he used to do, but he's in a fog and he analyzes his own actions and overthinks things. He lives in fear of more emotional turmoil and having to deal with it.



turnera said:


> Sounds promising. The one thing I would do at this point is read read read. Read everything you can get your hands on, and then, as the chance comes up, relay what you've learned. No doubt a big chunk of what you're learning will be about what YOU can change in the way YOU deal with HIM. It's pretty much played out like I told you it would - he's not a jerk, he just wants safety and to not feel bad any more. If the two of you can learn to interact safely, he will feel safer to open up to you, and you'll have a great relationship.
> 
> Neil has it right.


I am reading and seeing what I can do. I'm just not sure when we should start the separation. Maybe this weekend? I just want to give the kids time to adjust and ask questions. I think we'll decide not to talk about the future until an agreed upon date, but I'm sure we'll talk a little about things. But I agree and am thankful that he realizes that we need to work on having fun together and being us. If that means being apart, then I can survive that. It will give me a chance to work on me. And maybe make him hate himself a lot less.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I wouldn't bring up the separation. Just focus on what YOU do. If he wants to leave, he will; YOU bringing it up is just one more instance of YOU trying to control HIM, and that's half the reason you've gotten to this place.

Back off, ok? Let HIM think for awhile, without your interference.

Try to fill out the LB questionnaire as you think he would fill it out, and then ACT on curbing those LBs you do. That's a full-time job in itself, so just focus on that for now. Stopping those LBs will reduce a good 50% of the tension in the house.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> I wouldn't bring up the separation. Just focus on what YOU do. If he wants to leave, he will; YOU bringing it up is just one more instance of YOU trying to control HIM, and that's half the reason you've gotten to this place.
> 
> Back off, ok? Let HIM think for awhile, without your interference.
> 
> Try to fill out the LB questionnaire as you think he would fill it out, and then ACT on curbing those LBs you do. That's a full-time job in itself, so just focus on that for now. Stopping those LBs will reduce a good 50% of the tension in the house.


Before we went to bed last night was when he first said that it made sense (because I had brought this up as a way to snap him out of this and realize what there is to lose the night before). I really am starting to believe it needs to happen. I guess I get not bringing it up but letting him do it. But we're stuck right now. I didn't do any lovebusters at all and there's still tension. There's still that feeling (on both of our parts) of fearing the evening when we are both home or when the kids go to bed because we don't know how to act. I did print the lovebuster thing. I also gave him some info on toxic shame and said if he wanted to read it he could. I didn't hand him the survey, just said I had it. I figured we had enough overload for the night. Trial separation is on the table and it's looking appetizing, unfortunately.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Things don't change over night, Lonely. You can't just stop LBing - and that's ASSUMING you really know what the right LBs ARe - for a week or two and expect him to forget a marriage's worth of them. Just like you haven't forgotten his EA.

He doesn't trust you not to hurt him. That's going to take a LONG time to go away.

Honestly, it sounds to me that you feel like, if he won't turn around this week, you want him gone.

Of course there's going to be tension. How can there not be? It's something you have to expect. He spent who knows how long wanting to leave or change things and, now that he's spoken out loud about it, you're going to choose the easy way out, to separate?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mind you, I know it sounds like I'm saying I expect YOU to be doing all the giving and him receiving it. Not at all. 

But, as you've figured out, he's like a startled bunny - handle delicately, or lose it forever. For NOW, you need to address Issue #1 - that he wants out if things don't get better.

Make things better, and, as they improve, THEN start bringing in ideas about what YOU would like to see in a perfect marriage; by THEN, he'll be more invested in making you happy. Right now, he's too damaged to do so.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> Things don't change over night, Lonely. You can't just stop LBing - and that's ASSUMING you really know what the right LBs ARe - for a week or two and expect him to forget a marriage's worth of them. Just like you haven't forgotten his EA.
> 
> He doesn't trust you not to hurt him. That's going to take a LONG time to go away.
> 
> ...


I don't want him gone. I just feel at this point in time, it might be the best way to go. I don't want to separate, but it might be a necessity. The fact that he talked about taking me out on dates in the midst of this happening and saying he's willing to try it is a huge difference from anything else. I can compromise by asking him to fill out the lovebuster survey thing and having him give me 2 weeks to try to make home more safe. Then we can decide. It's just that when he gets his mind set on something, he generally goes through with it. He actually sent me a spontaneous text today. I know there's going to be tension, but he's the one that is dying inside because of it. I don't see it as an easy way out. More of a trial "see how things would be and cool off" period. There would be ground rules set. 




turnera said:


> Mind you, I know it sounds like I'm saying I expect YOU to be doing all the giving and him receiving it. Not at all.
> 
> But, as you've figured out, he's like a startled bunny - handle delicately, or lose it forever. For NOW, you need to address Issue #1 - that he wants out if things don't get better.
> 
> Make things better, and, as they improve, THEN start bringing in ideas about what YOU would like to see in a perfect marriage; by THEN, he'll be more invested in making you happy. Right now, he's too damaged to do so.


I have been doing all the giving. That's another reason why I think I am starting to feel so defeated. He is a startled bunny, great analogy! He's too damaged to do anything. I really don't know how to make things better. Not fighting or starting "talks", not criticizing, just going with the flow. We are both very sad, but I try to play with the kids and such. He makes sure to stay busy as to avoid "the talk". He doesn't want to date now, which is what confuses me. We could have the same rules now?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's fine, I'm just saying don't push anything. I know from watching hundreds of marriages on these forums that it's much harder to make a marriage work once one of the two is out of the house, that's all. So I'm just saying slow down, you don't have to make a decision immediately. If you're in for the long haul, a couple more months of limbo isn't going to kill you guys, you know?


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## Jaded Heart (Jan 5, 2011)

I have been reading your thread and this sounds like it good work out good. 

Again don't push him, I think that is where I went wrong when H told me he as done I pushed and begged ! I was scared and now he is moving out. I haven't closed the door on us, but I'm pretty sure he has. All I can do is hope he can find the time and space he needs to think through things and maybe we can get through this. I won't give up until he files for a Divorce


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> That's fine, I'm just saying don't push anything. I know from watching hundreds of marriages on these forums that it's much harder to make a marriage work once one of the two is out of the house, that's all. So I'm just saying slow down, you don't have to make a decision immediately. If you're in for the long haul, a couple more months of limbo isn't going to kill you guys, you know?


At this point, it isn't me pushing a decision. I know that separation usually doesn't end good. But right now, that's the only thing that will allow us to let some guard down, reduce the tension, and work on us. He, in a jerk kind of way, let me know last night that he won't be here this weekend. Then after the kids went to bed, he acted all depressed and then acted why I was surprised when he had said that. I told him we had opened a conversation, not closed it. I also want the kids to know ahead of time. So, we need to figure out the guidelines. He then gets all mad about me wanting a blueprint, and I had to explain that parameters have to be set if the goal is to reconcile. He can't handle any more limbo. He won't let his guard down to even allow home to be a safe place. It sucks, but this depression has stolen him from me.



Jaded Heart said:


> I have been reading your thread and this sounds like it good work out good.
> 
> Again don't push him, I think that is where I went wrong when H told me he as done I pushed and begged ! I was scared and now he is moving out. I haven't closed the door on us, but I'm pretty sure he has. All I can do is hope he can find the time and space he needs to think through things and maybe we can get through this. I won't give up until he files for a Divorce


I hope it works out. I've read your threads, too, and I don't know what to say, except that marriage is hard! My H has never really said we're done and there's NO hope. He just doesn't know how to fix this. And he also is very much a pessimist so he feels like maybe it can be mended, but that the underlying damage is still there. I'm not going to beg and push, at this point we just have to figure out how to go about this. I'm in for the long haul, but I'm afraid of how long this might take. I really want my marriage back. I wish you luck. Hugs.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I honestly cannot believe the advice in this thread, he is getting just what he wants.

To be able to do what he wants with very few consequences, I mean don't go upsetting him, or expecting him to accountable or transparent, after all he was only unfaithful and proven to be a liar after all.


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

Syrum said:


> I honestly cannot believe the advice in this thread, he is getting just what he wants.
> 
> To be able to do what he wants with very few consequences, I mean don't go upsetting him, or expecting him to accountable or transparent, after all he was only unfaithful and proven to be a liar after all.


:iagree:

Thank you for being the voice of reason here Syrum. Lonely, I feel so bad for you, you are suffering terribly and he has the upper hand and is toying with you. Because you are a kind, caring person you can't even imagine that someone would be so cruel, especially the person you love the most...but they can.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just because he had an EA 4 years ago doesn't mean he's spent the last 4 years doing the same thing. She has not mentioned anything of the sort.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

turnera said:


> Just because he had an EA 4 years ago doesn't mean he's spent the last 4 years doing the same thing. She has not mentioned anything of the sort.


You beat me to it.

Just been looking at some other threads started by Lonely, and most of them are all the same about persuing him.

What she IS doing is never letting him/her move on from it.

hence my original input post on the last page.

I can't find anything to suggest he is continuing to do it. Back in December he gave her access to everything (ie phone/facebook/email etc ect)


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I can't believe that some would have a woman throw her marriage away, when she clearly wants to SAVE it. She's asking for help on saving her marriage, I'm sure she can figure out how to leave it if that's what she chooses to do. You have to get on solid footing before issues from the past can be addressed. He's not a drug addict or drunk, he's not physically abusing her or the children, this is a marriage WITH CHILDREN that has a real possibility of being saved. There is a lot of pain on both sides here. It's not so simple, nor black and white. 

Makes me wonder what the advice would have been to HIM years ago when Lonely made a mistake?


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Whoah! I'm really confused. I understand everyone has an opinion. But I'm the one in my situation and I know ALL the details, which are impossible to share. I know him, I know the look on his face, the sound in his voice, the thoughts and emotions he's shared. I've seen the pain and hurt on both sides. And I believe my marriage is worth saving. If you ever look at those articles that are about which marriages are worth saving, mine is one of those. There's no abuse, addictions, infidelity, conflict issues. We have a GREAT past. Everything always came easy. 

What's happened here is that he made a mistake 4 years ago after we drifted apart due to complacency and growing up. I didn't totally let it go. I forgave him, and it really wasn't anything to the degree of which I've seen here. I know he's remorseful, he's lived with the guilt to the point that I truly believe he's hating himself. Then we get to now, where we become complacent again, I make the mistake of telling him I'm not in love with him and we need to work on connecting. He is really damaged by my confession, and instead of trying to do something about it, he pops into his shell. Yes, he makes mistakes. He lies to try to keep from hurting me, but these are all self-defenses due to the shame he carries around. This has all spiraled out of control. What I thought was communicating, he saw as me telling him he wasn't good enough. 

He IS selfish in some ways. Definitely not perfect. But either am I. I've held the past against him unknowingly, I've not moved on, because I only recently learned how to. I have pressured issues and pushed him away. Sometimes we don't see this until a lot of damage has been done. Unfortunately, that's where we are at. He is afraid. He does love me, you can't know us and not see that. He deals with his emotions and pain way differently from me. I can see how it all looks bad on him. That's what I see when I let the insecurity get the best of me. And that pushes him away further. 

At this point I'm for whatever saves my marriage. It isn't ideal. It might not turn out the way I want. But if he's able to say to me that he wants us to be happy again and he wants to get out of his slump, then I'm for it. It isn't like he's off doing whatever he wants. It's not like he's running away. It's an enhancement separation. Opinions are mixed on this and I understand the odds. But that's why I'm here, trying to set the framework for us improving this. Because on this matter, he's with me. We can deal on the him issues later.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Neil said:


> You beat me to it.
> 
> Just been looking at some other threads started by Lonely, and most of them are all the same about persuing him.
> 
> ...


It is no secret that I'm the one wanting to save this marriage. That I'm the one pleading for him to give us a try. It's hard not to do. I have laid off, though. I'm open to this separation because he is hopeful (actually hopeful for once) that this can get us out of this icy silence and tension phase to being able to work on us and get him to check back in. 

We are stuck in a cycle of me wanting to let the past go, and him wanting to let it go, but me feeling insecure and him doing the opposite of what I need to feel better. We have communication issues. But there are a ton of good things.

I did have access to his email and facebook. But since my snooping pushed him to the edge, I told him I was letting it go and needed to trust. And I told him to change his passwords, which he did. So now it's all on faith. But I DO believe him.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> It is no secret that I'm the one wanting to save this marriage. That I'm the one pleading for him to give us a try. It's hard not to do. I have laid off, though. I'm open to this separation because he is hopeful (actually hopeful for once) that this can get us out of this icy silence and tension phase to being able to work on us and get him to check back in.
> 
> We are stuck in a cycle of me wanting to let the past go, and him wanting to let it go, but me feeling insecure and him doing the opposite of what I need to feel better. We have communication issues. But there are a ton of good things.
> 
> I did have access to his email and facebook. But since my snooping pushed him to the edge, I told him I was letting it go and needed to trust. And I told him to change his passwords, which he did. So now it's all on faith. But I DO believe him.



So you are also in a situation where you need to reconnect without any of the issues getting in the way.

If the seperation helps so be it, but I am on the same side of whilst he is their, try connecting on things without the past interfering. I wouldn't push for seperation, or push for anything at this point.

I still stand by my original input in just trying to have fun together. Nothing much more than fun together, connects people


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Things like setting up a jigsaw puzzle. Something you do together, but apart, where you're looking at the board and not each other (hence no confrontation), you can even help each other find pieces, maybe bring the kids into it for fun, and it adds up in the 'good feelings' bank you so desperately need.

Or play a board game with the kids.

Have the kids put on a play for him.

Ask him to help build a go-kart.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Neil said:


> So you are also in a situation where you need to reconnect without any of the issues getting in the way.
> 
> If the seperation helps so be it, but I am on the same side of whilst he is their, try connecting on things without the past interfering. I wouldn't push for seperation, or push for anything at this point.
> 
> I still stand by my original input in just trying to have fun together. Nothing much more than fun together, connects people


Yeah, I'm not pushing for anything. I did say last night that I thought we should try everything before going towards separation. But he's set against it. He says he can't continue to feel this tension and uncomfortable silence, it makes him go further down into depression. So I said we just needed to figure out how it will work. That's the only thing I'm pushing for. 



turnera said:


> Things like setting up a jigsaw puzzle. Something you do together, but apart, where you're looking at the board and not each other (hence no confrontation), you can even help each other find pieces, maybe bring the kids into it for fun, and it adds up in the 'good feelings' bank you so desperately need.
> 
> Or play a board game with the kids.
> 
> ...


Yes, he is willing to do things as a family, so it helps. He says he feels okay until they go to bed and then everything eats at him. The silence or uncomfortable exchanges eat at him. Me just having small talk eats at him. He just needs a break to be able to recollect himself. I get that.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

So, he's set on this whole separation thing. I sent him an email with some things to think about in lines with ground rules. I told him we need to figure those out before we even talk to the kids, so that we are clear and on the same page. Then they need to process before he runs off. I just feel like he's so wishy washy. This is tearing me to shreds. He read the email after I had gone to bed, then he came in after awhile and kissed me on my cheek while I was sleeping and I woke up and asked him what was up. And he said he just wanted to do that and that he was going outside to call his best friend. An hour later I woke up and went out to check on him and asked him if he called his friend and he said yes, but they didn't talk long. And that he was responding to my email.

He didn't finish responding to it all, but I don't like any of this. I said we need to state the purpose and be clear, because it affects how we go about it. If the goal is to ease tension and cool off so we can reconnect, then so be it. He responded that we can find ourselves and possible reconnect. I don't like the whole possibly, but I hope that's just his pessimism. This is tearing me up. I really can't imagine this actually happening. But it is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I know you don't want to hear this, but you are still trying to control the situation. Back off. Please! You DON'T have to do it all this very weekend. You can survive some tense days in the house together, if it helps him process things. And it gives you time to show him that you can be around him without stressing him out.

Stop pushing him.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> I know you don't want to hear this, but you are still trying to control the situation. Back off. Please! You DON'T have to do it all this very weekend. You can survive some tense days in the house together, if it helps him process things. And it gives you time to show him that you can be around him without stressing him out.
> 
> Stop pushing him.


It isn't about that. He already made it clear that every day makes him spiral further down. I can't handle the tension. Looking at him sitting there like his dog just died. He already made it clear he was leaving Friday (which is today) in a passing way on Wednesday night. So he'll be gone with no parameters or understanding leaving things a mess. I'm trying to show my support but get some understanding. I'm sorry. I was fine last night. He initiated the conversations. It's just so difficult to live not knowing. I don't want to push him away. But that's where it's going. So why sit idly why it happens?


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> It isn't about that. He already made it clear that every day makes him spiral further down. I can't handle the tension. Looking at him sitting there like his dog just died. He already made it clear he was leaving Friday (which is today) in a passing way on Wednesday night. So he'll be gone with no parameters or understanding leaving things a mess. I'm trying to show my support but get some understanding. I'm sorry. I was fine last night. He initiated the conversations. It's just so difficult to live not knowing. I don't want to push him away. But that's where it's going. So why sit idly why it happens?


Do you really want him leaving the house and being pushed at the last second?

If you give him that feeling when he actually leaves then that is also going to stay in his mind.

Please try understanding (and absolutely no pushing or pulling).

He has it set on his mind, but remember, he also see's the possiblity of re-connecting and re-building (keep that in mind for now).

by being pushed (ie even walking out in the middle of the night to see if he was ok) he still won't work his mind out because you are still doing it...

Its hard, VERY hard I know, but the quicker you let him have his thoughts, the quicker it can all be resolved. He is more likely to say "Sod this" if he can't think and call it totally. (Even if he doesn't mean it just so you can actually leave him alone).

And one very very important thing, IF he does go tonight (Most likely now, he is/has been pushed towards that), DO NOT bombard him like you did in those 5 days he went last week.

Let him initiate contact with you, don't be afraid, he WILL.

and when he does (Because HE WILL (re-itterated if it didn't sink in above)) don't ask questions, just say you are here IF he needs you. And its highly likely he will refuse that.

All in all, he is still showing he loves you (ie giving you a kiss in the middle of the night "because he felt like it") you shouldn't have asked him why, simply kiss him back, say "I know you do, I love you too" with a smile, and nothing else

If you PUSH whilst he is figuring his mind out, I feel you will just push him off the cliffe


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lonely, do you acknowledge that you are part of the problem? 

Then listen to us and STOP doing what you always do. What you always do is what's driving him away.

If you can't even change and back off this one time, and stop trying to control the outcome, why would he think you'll ever be different? The best time to show him you CAN change is NOW, while he's still home.

Please, just try to keep your mouth closed, don't say anything unless asked, and respond only with a hug or a kiss. 

Let him see that you can stop trying to control things.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

I know. You guys are right. It's just so hard to sit by while your life falls apart. And my kids come first and foremost, as they are affected by this all. I wasn't trying to control anything when I wrote him that email, I just really needed ground rules and to be on the same page with our kids before he left. Not talking about it wouldn't have made him stay. It would have just left me not knowing. I guess what it boils down to, is that we've found a big compatibility that we never knew existed because we've never had real conflict. He copes way differently than I do. He withdraws, and I grasp at straws. 

Neil ~ Do you really think he sees me walking out in the middle of the night as controlling? I didn't even go into the living room, I stayed in our doorway. He knows I'm concerned for him. I do know I need to just leave him alone. I'm really trying. But honestly, he won't let me even prove that. He provokes discussions. And I guess that's where I'm unsure how to respond. He sees it as communicating, and trying to open up, but then he's defensive at the same time. Do I just smile and nod? And I don't feel like I bombarded him when he left. I actually left him alone and did not contact him for 3 of those days. Of course that's not enough to prove anything. And when he does contact me, what do we talk about? He hates that everyone worries about him. He hates what he's doing to me. I just told him I'd leave him alone and I'm sorry for pushing. I don't want to go beyond the point of no return. I'm really trying!

turnera~Yes, I see how I'm part of the problem. Our coping mechanisms are opposite spectrum. I'm trying to stop. I'm not controlling the outcome, I acknowledged that this is what he's willing to try and I'll support it even though it's scary. Problem is, if I keep my mouth closed and don't say anything, he overanalyzes it and feels all the tension rising. And I can be completely content doing my own thing at the same time. I can read his body language. He is trying his best to open up. I know that. I wish we could just go somewhere together for a day and do something fun and escape all this. I hate the way it feels to be together, and I hate the way it feels to be apart.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He's not going to just abandon you; you have kids and history. He'll be around.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> I wasn't trying to control anything when I wrote him that email, _I just really needed ground rules_ and to be on the same page with our kids before he left.


I'll ask you: what is the worst that would have happened if he HADN'T sat down with you and come up with ground rules before he left? 

Would you never see him again? Unlikely. 

Would you maybe go the weekend without hearing from him? Maybe.

Still, not the end of the world.

I'm trying to get you to see that what you SAY you need or want is NOT the only answer. You didn't HAVE to have those ground rules; you WANTED them, and your anxiety pushed you to have them, but having them or not would not have made your world end.

Do you see the difference?

Do you ever just do things by the seat of your pants? Just get in the car and pick a direction and see where it takes you? Allow yourself to get lost? Tell the kids to close their eyes and point to a place on a map and you guys just go there? Play hooky from school and take the kids on a picnic?


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

> It's just so hard to sit by while your life falls apart.


I know the feeling here, helplessness, abandon, lost.



> I wasn't trying to control anything when I wrote him that email, I just really needed ground rules and to be on the same page with our kids before he left.


I feel that the foundation of your control issues have have already been laid down, much like concrete work. If you were at the stage where only the forms have been laid out, this is the time where things could have been changed and went another direction. Once you have poured the mud, there is nothing short of hard, physical and mental work to pull it back up.



> He copes way differently than I do. He withdraws, and I grasp at straws.


This is my wife and I. Unfortunately, she has filed for divorce because she refuses to change her mind, and I changed too little too late.



> He provokes discussions. And I guess that's where I'm unsure how to respond.


This is my wife, but in a different light. If she felt neglected, she would provoke discussions that she knew would upset me, just so that she can get attention, even if it was negative attention.



> And when he does contact me, what do we talk about?


Talk about the happy moments of your life, your highlights, how well the kids are doing in school, sports, the last Birthday party, what is playing at the Theaters.



> Yes, I see how I'm part of the problem.


I too see how I was part of the problem. A marriage is a 50/50 deal, with each party being 100% responsible for theirself.

I had a friend tell me that the marriage should be 60/40, with each giving 60% and receiveng 40%. This is still something that I am thinking about, or analyzing.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

remmons said:


> I know the feeling here, helplessness, abandon, lost.
> 
> I too see how I was part of the problem. A marriage is a 50/50 deal, with each party being 100% responsible for theirself.
> 
> I had a friend tell me that the marriage should be 60/40, with each giving 60% and receiveng 40%. This is still something that I am thinking about, or analyzing.


I'm sorry your situation took a turn for the worse. I hope it isn't too late for you. And for me. I agree with the 60/40 thing. But when we're at this point in the game, it's 110% me, 5% him. He's like a zombie. I guess I should say that I'm thankful he tries to communicate about the issues and where we're at, and he does love me and still tells me so, and he does things for me and kisses and hugs me. I am glad we've still got that. It's hard to imagine EVERYTHING going away.

Small talk is hard. He hates it. He hates small talk, no talk, and relationship talk. That's why I was open to him doing whatever he needed to do to be okay. I guess I need to just be okay. Somehow. I just hope he hasn't decided that this is me and how forever would be. He says he doesn't blame me or fault me, so he understands me enough to see that this is how I cope. But it still drives a wedge. Just wish I could breakthrough. But alas, I'll lay off.




turnera said:


> I'll ask you: what is the worst that would have happened if he HADN'T sat down with you and come up with ground rules before he left?
> 
> Do you ever just do things by the seat of your pants? Just get in the car and pick a direction and see where it takes you? Allow yourself to get lost? Tell the kids to close their eyes and point to a place on a map and you guys just go there? Play hooky from school and take the kids on a picnic?


I guess the worst thing would be him shutting me out completely and giving up on us. The worst thing would be me left to pick up the pieces with our kids. I see how my anxiety pushes me to respond. I get that. But I guess I feel that if I do nothing, then no one is trying, and then we're done. And to answer your question, not I'm not like that at all. I'm a planner. I'm very concrete sequential. I guess to a fault. I'll explore this during my counseling sessions.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

> I'm sorry your situation took a turn for the worse. I hope it isn't too late for you. And for me. I agree with the 60/40 thing. But when we're at this point in the game, it's 110% me, 5% him. He's like a zombie. I guess I should say that I'm thankful he tries to communicate about the issues and where we're at, and he does love me and still tells me so, and he does things for me and kisses and hugs me. I am glad we've still got that. It's hard to imagine EVERYTHING going away.


Thank you for your kind words. I am sorry too, but I have finally realized that it is too late. But this thread is about you, and not me.

Even though it is a small step, it is still a good step that he tries to communicate with you. Maybe what you two need is to talk about something different than what you two have been focusing on, something more positive and upbeat. Maybe go out on a date where you two have not been and try something different. Break the mold, break the pattern that you two have established. Kick that four-wheel drive in and pull your selves out of the rut that you both have made. (I wish that I would have, this may have saved my marriage). Go out on a date where you both leave your troubles at the door.



> Small talk is hard., He hates it. He hates small talk, no talk, and relationship talk. That's why I was open to him doing whatever he needed to do to be okay. I guess I need to just be okay. Somehow. I just hope he hasn't decided that this is me and how forever would be. He says he doesn't blame me or fault me, so he understands me enough to see that this is how I cope. But it still drives a wedge. Just wish I could breakthrough. But alas, I'll lay off.


So did I. I didn't much care for the small talk, and this was possibly one of my biggest downfalls. I thought that these were trivial. Believe me, nothing is trivial. For me, I didn't feel the importance of them, but to her, they were VERY important. I understood too late how important that these were to a woman.

You will have to make the decision to remove some of your control. He will have to make the decision to let go of his anxieties and issues and learn to be accepted for who and what he is.

I wish you both the best of luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> Small talk is hard. He hates it. He hates small talk, no talk, and relationship talk.


Then just try being there. NO talk, just presence. That's why I suggested the jigsaw puzzle - you don't have to talk at all, you're busy concentrating on a common goal, and you're benefiting from the good feelings of being together and not having issues. The more of those you can get, the less scared he will be to be around you.



> I guess the worst thing would be him shutting me out completely and giving up on us. The worst thing would be me left to pick up the pieces with our kids. I see how my anxiety pushes me to respond. I get that. But I guess I feel that if I do nothing, then no one is trying, and then we're done.


But that's not where you are at. He is telling you that he wants you but also wants to stop the pain. He isn't telling you he's done with you. TRUST HIM. I'm pretty sure that he feels completely untrusted - thus you have to forge ahead and make plans and get affirmations from him...because you don't trust the words he's given you - that he loves you but needs space. If you trust his words, you would say 'ok, I see it, let's take it one day at a time.' Rather than 'I need to know where you're going, when you're coming back, how you'll treat the kids.' That's not trusting. 



> And to answer your question, not I'm not like that at all. I'm a planner. I'm very concrete sequential. I guess to a fault. I'll explore this during my counseling sessions.


 No doubt he sees that, too, and it is a great cause of stress for him. Having to plan everything is just another symptom that you can't trust him to be a good provider, to get things right, to protect you. I'd warrrant that this has slowly eroded his self esteem over the years. Let him be the head of the family, ok?

And just for the record, being spontaneous is a WONDERFUL aphrodisiac. And it's not a bad thing to teach your kids, too.

My mom, any time we ever went anywhere, she'd get lost. It became a running joke. The planner in _you_ probably feels that would be horrible, but guess what? We bonded over it. We KNEW we were still in our city, still on a paved road, just a block away from another road sign, and we could tell which way was east or west from the sun in the sky. What's the worst that could happen? We'd be late getting somewhere. We knew we'd eventually find our way out, and get back home. It taught me a LOT - to know that it doesn't help to get stressed out, and not planning isn't the end of the world.

I think your whole family could probably benefit from you ditching the plans a bit, and just trying to be spontaneous.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

One rule that my family has, that I came up with, is that when we go out, we have to try a new restaurant at least every other time we go out. Sometimes it's a bust, sometimes we find a new gem. But it's fun and it's something that bonds us together.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

remmons ~ Thanks for the advice. I really hope this turns out okay. Not sure what he'd do to that tattoo on his back with my name on it if it doesn't. It's a globe that says "My Life My World" and has my name on a banner and our son's name on a banner. We'd also be so screwed financially. He's already talked to his mom about that.  It's so hard not to think the worst. I wish we could just leave our troubles at the door. He says it's fake and makes him even more uncomfortable. I suggested hanging with friends, and even that he says would be weird. I'm at a loss.

turnera~ I really wish we could have positive or even neutral experiences. He said in his reply email, "I still havent figured out a way to completely open up, though we have had several "productive", many unproductive, and all hard conversations." He also said he feels like he's always waiting for something to happen. And he feels like he's going to implode sometimes, and slivers of hope fade in and out. He wants our marriage to work but doesn't know how to make that happen. Says he wants the us that he knew, but doesn't know how to get there and is afraid we can't. And he feels like he has so little to give. These are the conversations he has with me on email and text. Ladled with "I'm sorry" and "I'm self defeated." It's really a downer.

I wish he'd just give something a try. A game. Dinner out. He stays at work as late as he can and then comes home and becomes one with the couch. I hate it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It didn't happen overnight, and it won't go away overnight. The best thing you can do is make sure every conversation you do have is uplifting and hopeful. And try to be more patient. I know it's hard but, really, what choice do you have? Just accept what you've got right now and run with it.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

You're right. I got the hopeful part down. I play that part well. He just doesn't see the conversations as hopeful. 

Just had someone email me to say that they think he's cheating because their H was the same way.  Of course, obviously that thought has crossed my mind. I just think he'd get an award for master manipulator if that were the case. Do you think, based on what I've said, that's the case? Just wanted to know your opinion.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

> And try to be more patient. I know it's hard but, really, what choice do you have? Just accept what you've got right now and run with it.


This is something that I _should_ have done, but failed. If I had more patience and understanding, I may not be where I am now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm usually the first person to jump on the 'he's cheating' bandwagon. But I've seen marriages just like yours before, and given the woman the same advice, and it HAS turned out to be just that the husband is beat down from not being 'good enough.'

Maybe you can help him find some things to do that will get him out of his slump. Things he used to do, but gave up, like baseball, or carpentry. He needs to feel successful again.


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## remmons (Dec 20, 2010)

> and it HAS turned out to be just that the husband is beat down from not being 'good enough.'
> 
> Maybe you can help him find some things to do that will get him out of his slump. Things he used to do, but gave up, like baseball, or carpentry. He needs to feel successful again.


turnera, I wish that I had found you and this site earlier. You've hit the nail right on the head here.

LonelyNLost, turnera knows what she is talking about. Hopefully you will learn the tools necessary to survive your marriage. Your H seems to be a lot like me (which I didn't realize until I cane to this forum).

I wish you the best of luck in the world.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

I sure hope you guys are right. His best friend was online today so I sent him a message to thank him for being a good friend and just basically say that I'm worried about my H and hopes he decides to open up to someone. He responded that he's worried to, as is their other friend. He feels like he's having some sort of midlife crisis. Says he knows that he's got a good thing at home, but he has an inner conflict. He also thought he acted weird when he was out there. Says he's 99.9% sure he didn't cheat on me, but there might have been a temptation, to which he feels guilty. He thinks it might have carried over when we got home which is why we're where we are at. I don't know what to do with this info. Just sit on it? 

Right now H is at his parent's house talking to his mom. Hope that's a good thing. It's rather late now for his mom to be up. I'm so darn insecure, and this situation makes it even worse. Lord, help me. I don't know if I'm strong enough.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

> I don't know if I'm strong enough.


 I wasn't strong enough. I drank myself to sleep 1-2 nights a week when it was bad and slipped into depression by the end of our separation. I really didn't want to wake up some nights when going to bed.

I'm not sure this helps any, but your not alone in this and it can get amazingly better even if it feels hopeless now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think if there was a temptation, it did make him question the marriage. As in, maybe it's being with her (you) that's making me so miserable. So now he's focusing on the bad in the marriage. 

Therefore, your job, as I keep saying, is to remind him, show him, that you CAN be uplifting, life with you can be fun and exciting and not full of bad feelings. 

If you can't control yourself enough to be that person when you're around him then you have a lot of work to do with your therapist. 

Are you going to let your emotions dictate your whole life? I'm the opposite of the spectrum - I swallow my feelings and never let anyone see them, I'm all logical. Somewhere in between is where you need to be. But it IS possible to swallow your feelings just to get things done, as I'm proof. Just like I said treat him like another child, where you have to curb YOUR needs to tend to theirs, you can do this!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks for the encouragement guys. He stayed away all night. Came home at like 2:30. I stayed awake. Said he talked to his mom till midnight and then talked on the phone to his friends. Then he started asking me what was wrong. Then he just started letting crap out. He's so irritated and frustrated. He knit-picked things I did and said YEARS ago. Said his mom asked him when he felt like things started to wrong and he said when I started working full time and he felt like he wasn't my priority. When I brought work home (I'm a teacher, no other option). That was 5 years ago! Then he goes on to say that even my facebook statuses annoy him. He was so angry with me. Then would tell me to talk to his mom because she understands him. I don't understand him, blah blah blah. 

He was so angry. Went to bed angry. Didn't say goodnight. Then this morning, got up and came around and kissed the back of my head and left. I won't hear from him. But, you know what? When he was spewing his venom at me last night, I kind of started to feel like maybe the depression isn't what this is? Maybe it's just hopelessness. Idk. I think I have no choice but to do a 180. Take care of myself. Be unavailable. He's being selfish and I can't win. He finds fault with everything I do or don't do. I seriously lost a lot of hope last night. I don't know if we can recover from this. I really don't. So, I'm going to live for me and my kids. I'm going to go do some laundry, clean the house, and then go somewhere. I'm not going to be here when he comes home from work. I just think we need to stay out of each other's faces. And separation is the only way to go, unfortunately. I just don't know what will happen.


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## kendra2705 (Oct 31, 2010)

Is this what happens when you stay with someone who has an affair??? personaly I would have ended it then but everyone is different. Why is he the one trying to work out if he wants to stay when he was the one who broke trust in the first place.

Don't let others make decisions which will map out the rest of your life , let him go for 5 days but tell him you will not be sure when he comes back that you want to carry on , this is your life too . good luck


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Sorry I disappeared LNL, my son had surgery on Thursday and I got tied up.

Sorry to hear things are going badly, but I do think you have the right idea. Take care of yourself, start doing things to make sure you and the kids are happy. (or keep doing them, whichever applies) 

Did you ever find out what his love busters were or what his love language was? I know you were having a hard time getting him to read anything.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

kendra2705 said:


> Is this what happens when you stay with someone who has an affair??? personaly I would have ended it then but everyone is different. Why is he the one trying to work out if he wants to stay when he was the one who broke trust in the first place.
> 
> Don't let others make decisions which will map out the rest of your life , let him go for 5 days but tell him you will not be sure when he comes back that you want to carry on , this is your life too . good luck


Well, he's already come back from the 5 days. This is what happens when you don't get the DS to come clean about why they had an affair (although ours was minor in scale, not physical and not ILU's). And when they shut them selves off so emotionally that you can't get in. He doesn't get the whole trust thing. He thinks he made a mistake and it can never be lived down. I learned too late how to let him let it go. 




DawnD said:


> Sorry I disappeared LNL, my son had surgery on Thursday and I got tied up.
> 
> Sorry to hear things are going badly, but I do think you have the right idea. Take care of yourself, start doing things to make sure you and the kids are happy. (or keep doing them, whichever applies)
> 
> Did you ever find out what his love busters were or what his love language was? I know you were having a hard time getting him to read anything.


No prob. Hope your son is okay. 

He wouldn't do the love busters thing. I already know he's words of affirmation. He let some things out last night that make me believe that there's more to this. He has some issues with things I do/did or don't do. Little things have become big things in light of these troubles. We've never really fought, and we've found that our coping styles are not complimentary. 

I know I have to just live for my kids and myself. I have to shut off these need to hold on. I can't hold onto him if he doesn't want to. I just don't understand the mind games that he insists he's not playing. I am starting to feel a lot of resentment and it isn't good. I know this is going to happen. And it's scary to think he may be gone for good. I just feel like I can't make it easy on him. I want us to reconnect by leaving the emotional baggage of each day behind during this, and he said he did but back pedals. I need him to know what is at stake. 

I'm broken and discouraged.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

So, I don't call him or text him this morning. I go about my business here, no facebook status or anything he can check from his phone. And he calls me at 12:30. Weird. Acts like nothing's wrong. Says he wanted to see what we were doing and let me know he wasn't ignoring me since he hadn't had time to call since he's so busy. Um, what? I don't get this. Lately, he never calls. He'll send a text and that's usually it. Maybe he's afraid to text because I might text something back requiring a response? Or because he told me last night he won't say he's sorry anymore and that's what he would usually text? Or is he buttering me up because he wants to leave. Tonight. Or Tomorrow. 

I almost feel like I want to pack his crap and tell him to go. But I want to do what's best for the kids. My son's science fair backboard is due Monday, so we've got to do that together tomorrow. I know I can't prevent this separation from happening. But I just don't get him.

ETA: I sent him a pic message of our daughter because she had gotten into my lipstick. He wrote back that he laughed, that was really funny and thanks for sending it. I didn't respond because I didn't see a need. Then he called me a few minutes ago to ask if it was lipstick or lip gloss? I said something to him about not understanding what's going on. I also told him I had some old messages between us on facebook from July where he was saying all the things he is saying now and I was saying the same things, so I guess the issues have been there for awhile. He was saying he was depressed and felt like he could never be good enough. I don't know what to do. I wish he could just commit some kind of effort and give it some time before he leaves.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

His mom just sent me this message:

"*** and I sat and talked for a few hours last night. I wish I could make the pain go away for both of you, but all I can do is be here to listen. I love you both and I know he still holds out hope that this can be resolved. If he didn't he would have asked for a divorce instead of a separation. I know that doesn't make it easier for any of you, but it's at least a measure of hope. He said your telling *** tomorrow and he is coming here sometime next week. We will talk between now and then. I love you."


Freaking nice I found out from her when this is going to happen. Like how he thinks he gets to dictate that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'd like to ask you to consider that what he 'has' is a mental condition. Much like any medical condition. He is not getting mental help, he's not a forums like this, he's just winging it, and floundering. If he had a medical disease, would you be getting mad at him?


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> I'd like to ask you to consider that what he 'has' is a mental condition. Much like any medical condition. He is not getting mental help, he's not a forums like this, he's just winging it, and floundering. If he had a medical disease, would you be getting mad at him?


I don't know. I would say no, but he has some control in this situation. He can control his actions and words, though he can't control his thoughts. What can I do about the person I love having a mental condition? 

Tonight was another bad night. He is usually at work till 7, so I had decided to shower and take the kids to dinner. He gets home at 6, so I invite him to go. He then realizes I had already planned it without him, which I explained I wanted to get out of the house and they had to eat, couldn't wait for him. He says it's fine. Then at dinner he's miserable and fidgety. He starts texting me at dinner. Saying he's on edge and he can't do this again tonight. He wants to go spend the night at his parents' house. I basically say it is what you make it, I'm more than willing to have a normal night. He keeps going with the texts getting agitated. He gets all worked up. The kids go to bed and he basically starts (gasp, with words instead of texts!) talking about how he's on the edge and he doesn't know what else to do. 

So he leaves all mad, and then doesn't even text me or reply to the message I sent on facebook. Actually, he goes and deletes a wall post of his wall that I left a couple weeks ago with a heart. I don't get it, he says I play games and it feels like that's what he's doing. I don't know how to approach him anymore. I have little hope in this situation. It's now 5:30am on a Sunday and I can't sleep. He's supposed to come back in the morning, but he is dreading the day. We have to finish our son's science fair project and then tell him we are separating. I dread this. We argued about whether or not it would shatter his world. He says our son is miserable during all this, but I say at least we're not fighting in front of him and he has the security of having access to both parents. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

He didn't contact me at all, nor I him. I got the kids ready and I was on the way to the car when he came home. We needed to do grocery shopping. Icy silence. No hello. Just asks where we're going and then goes inside. I call him and tell him I'm leaving our son so they can work on the science fair project. Then I get home and he doesn't even help me with the groceries. WTH? He's texting someone. His mom isn't responding to me anymore. I hate all this silence. I hate that my marriage is like this.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Just an update: The rest of Sunday was a lot of silence. He was working on our son's science project. I was doing stuff for work. He'd ask me how to do certain sections, but that's it. He did send me an email to respond to the last one I'd sent. He then says he wants to tell our son today (Sunday) and then give it a few days and then he'd leave. Then, he left to run to the store and took both kids. I got upset but hid it by going into the bathroom. He tried to come in but I had locked it. When he came home, I was on the phone in the bedroom, laying on the floor. He offered me candy. I declined but said thanks. I then took our daughter to the mall, where he called me 3 times to ask simple questions about the project. I got dinner and came home. The rest of the night went by and no one initiated conversation about the separation or telling our son. Kids go to bed and he comes to me and says he thought we were telling him. I asked when? I don't want to do it right before bed, and we needed to figure out what we were going to say. He goes on about how it has to happen. I said fine, but he needed to try to come home a little earlier. 

I'm instituting my 180 full blown starting today. He left last night, rather cordially, gave me a nice hug before leaving and told me he loved me. Then texted me goodnight an hour later. This morning he got home in time and hugged me goodbye. Sent me my morning text, to which I responded. Didn't hear from him again until he got home after 7. Which is too late, IMO, to break this kind of news to our son. In true 180 fashion I didn't call or say anything about the issue. I am starting to think he is dragging HIS feet. I know I am. He didn't bring it up at all. Even after the kids went to bed. I was pleasant, cool, collected, nonchalant. Didn't talk about the relationship or issues, just watched TV and made small talk about it. Discussed my day, my plans for next week with the kids when I'm out of town, etc. He left 30 minutes after the kids went to bed, and gave me a hug and a peck on my head. Then called me 10 minutes later to say goodnight and make small talk about bills. It's like he wants to hear my voice. Told me twice how nice I looked in the dress I wore today. Also told me twice that he really wanted to call me today but he got too busy. I'm not sure what to think of this. I created a neutral environment, and for that I'm proud. I need to keep this up. Consistent actions! He then left to go to his parent's for the night and said he'd see me in the morning. Then he called 10 minutes later to small talk and tell me goodnight and he loved me. 

I guess he is reaching out in his own way. It still hurts that he feels so uncomfortable here that he has to leave. But all I can do is work on myself. I'll take solace in that he accepted that the ball is in his court and he knows I am detaching, that he still loves me and tells me so, that he thinks separation is a way to reconnect, that he reaches out with texts and phone calls because he does miss me, and that I occasionally get a hug. It isn't all I want, but after reading some threads on here, I'll be thankful for what I have.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

Stay strong. The updates sound good. No fighting, he says he loves you, gives you some affection. 

My wife needed separation to reconnect.

fyi, I never really did 


> 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
> 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.


I instead tried to be strong when I was hurting. I'm not sure how these two fit your story.

Keep it up!!!!!!!


> 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

anx said:


> Stay strong. The updates sound good. No fighting, he says he loves you, gives you some affection.
> 
> My wife needed separation to reconnect.
> 
> ...



Thanks for reminding me of number 33. There's so many I feel like I need to consult my list before acting or reacting, lol. The big ones I'm instituting are no relationship talk, no pleading or reasoning, no initiating ILU or phone calls/text, and acting calm and collected. I have also cut contact with his mom, since she obviously must feel uncomfortable. She didn't reply to my message and then yesterday said that she didn't check her phone all weekend. Lie. She replied when my H sent her a message.  So, not counting on her. 

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I have a gf who I talked to last night for 3 hours as she's going through something similar. But it gave me some solace that my H isn't being a complete a$$.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks for reminding me of number 33. There's so many I feel like I need to consult my list before acting or reacting, lol. The big ones I'm instituting are no relationship talk, no pleading or reasoning, no initiating ILU or phone calls/text, and acting calm and collected. I have also cut contact with his mom, since she obviously must feel uncomfortable. She didn't reply to my message and then yesterday said that she didn't check her phone all weekend. Lie. She replied when my H sent her a message.  So, not counting on her.
> 
> Thanks for the words of encouragement. I have a gf who I talked to last night for 3 hours as she's going through something similar. But it gave me some solace that my H isn't being a complete a$$.



Hope you're keeping up your strength - just thinking about you today and wishing you well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> Hope you're keeping up your strength - just thinking about you today and wishing you well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, I appreciate it. I posted the latest here:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...est-way-tell-kids-about-trial-separation.html

He continues to amaze me. Last night's conversation threw me for a loop. Mr. I'm not jealous seems to be a little jealous.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Just thought I'd add, that I'm not taking 9 days away with the kids. I left town yesterday and I'm staying with my mom 3 hours away. Told him I needed this time to think and he should take it too. Last night it seemed like he missed us. He had called me twice while driving, I kept it short and about the kids and the traffic, and then I just texted him that we got here safe. He then asked 20 questions via text. I said goodnight and went to bed. Today he sent a text and I just told him to have a good day. 

I feel calm being away. I am taking this time for me.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

> He had called me twice while driving, I kept it short and about the kids and the traffic, and then I just texted him that we got here safe.


 This is good. Keep up the 180, but don't leave him totally hanging either.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

anx said:


> This is good. Keep up the 180, but don't leave him totally hanging either.


Yeah, I'm responding, but not initiating. It feels good.


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