# I am getting nuts... or not?



## AlbertG

My wife and I are together for almost 12 years, if we count dating and living together prior the marriage. I am 42 now and she is 31 so there is bit more than 10 years of age difference. We have two small kids, and since the first one is born we went through the classic transformation of the relationship – less time, much more responsibilities and difficulties that come with the children, and slowly we start losing the connection with each other. We had sex less and less (not because I wanted but she was always tired), and that was quite bothering me, but however I never ever had a thoughts of cheating her due to that. I was always thinking it is a temporary phase that will go away by itself when kids get bit older, so I did not worry too much and I respected her loss of interest.

Last year she got a new job, with a quite nice conditions, better than she hoped for. That made her quite happy, to step out from previous bad job and start having a clear career path in front of her. Her boss is in his 50ies, but relatively good looking. After a while, I started noticing that he is sending her WhatsApp messages outside of working hours. I could not resist the urge and I started checking her phone, and the messages were mostly business related at beginning. Later, they became bit personal (something like ‘I have a great time with friends and we are drinking the bottle of brandy your husband gave me when I invited you for a barbecue’). Just before that, they had a 2 days business trip together – I did not worry about the fact she is going alone with the boss as I could not even imagine the possibility of something between them, and I was so sure in my wife’s that it was not even a remote possibility in my eyes. Also, approximately at that time, our sex life was slowly getting better, and I had a feeling I am finally getting my wife back…

Couple of months later, new business trip came, now 3 nights abroad, however this time with another 5-6 colleagues. That was a moment when I started raising my eyebrows a bit due to all messaging outside of working hours, and the fact that I noticed she is starting to take care more about her physical appearance - she was always beautiful and well dressed, but at that period that all went a step up which I had to notice. After the first night at the trip, I woke up early in the morning and I noticed her ‘last seen’ status on WhatsApp was around 2 AM. In the morning she sent me the message that she came to hotel at 00.30 and fell asleep around 1AM. We talked over telephone and she told me the same (without me asking in suspicious way), but I noticed a bit of hesitation and thinking for a moment in her voice. Again, not a big deal but that started me worrying – was it lie or she just did not watch at her clock? I got nervous and I started snooping around the house, and I discovered a receipt from the shop for the new sexy underwear that she did not show me, bought from her personal account and she has bought it only 3 days before the trip. At the same time, she has bought another set that she has shown to me, which was paid from our common account. At that point I started really worrying she has affair with her boss! I was looking for more hints of what is going on, and I even realized that as I know her gmail password, I can eventually access her location history. I am bit shamed that I had to use that method, but I saw that the night she told me to be in hotel at 00.30 actually she arrived at 11pm… so instead 30 min awake in hotel, she had at least 3 hours. Next 3 days were hell for me, I was telling myself that I am getting crazy, feeling guilty for snooping and thinking I am getting out of my mind. The day she came back, I convinced myself that I am just in delusion and have decide not to mention anything to her. However, when I saw her, I noticed immediately her upper lip was swollen, exactly how I remember it was when were young and we were kissing extensively. Of course, that reignited my suspicion. That night I could not sleep, and in the middle of the night, when I noticed she was turning in the bed and getting awake, I started talking to her and I told her I am worried she has affair with her boss. She of course denied it, asking me why I think so and I gave her all my hints. We talked for at least 2 hours, she convinced me I was going out of my mind and I even started to apologize. Just before going back to sleep, she however told me that he is indeed sometimes crossing the boundaries of professional behavior, he is telling her she has nice hair, etc and that she will tell him next time that she wants to keep the relation 100% professional. I believed that, as I knew guys can hit on her due to her above average physical appearance.

Next few days were bit tensed, she was angry because I was thinking she is cheating on me, I was angry at myself for bringing that up… However, I could not swallow the fact about the underwear she did not show me and paid from her account, so I kept snooping her GPS logs, and I noticed last month she went 5 times before the work to the same place in industrial zone, bit away from her standard route to the work. 
Last time it was that morning, so a week after business trip. Ok, that was definite red flag and I was sure something is going on. I could not figure out what she could be doing there, I was secretly hoping she is buying donuts for her colleagues, but there was no bakery around that place ;-) I approached her the same night, I told her I can access GPS location logs (shame on me again), and she had no choice then to admit – she said she was seeing her boss in the car before the work, but she said it is not an affair but they are just talking and sitting in his car. I asked if they were kissing or doing anything else in the car, and through the tears she said yes, they were kissing.
So ok, at the end I was not really crazy, my intuition was right. I asked about the details, she said that only once he tried to kiss her in the car, they touched the lips and she quickly pulled back. She did not admit anything bad happening at the business trips… But of course, it was and still is so difficult for me to believe that. We spent whole night talking again, almost fighting – she told me that I am too jealous, I did not help enough with the kids, in the house, etc – I was such a bad husband according to her and she was getting desperate due to that. On the other hands, her boss is so full of action, showing the energy I am missing, etc… And I my mind that sounded like this - he is a VP in their company and earning probably 10 times more than me... I even got some statements similar to famous ILYBNILWY. I know I am not the perfect husband, but I was providing well for the family, not drinking, smoking, not going out much and chasing *****s. Yes I am bit overweight (same as her boss) but since this discovery I lost 10 kg in less than a month due to stress… So no real reason to paint such picture I would say.

All of this happened 4 months ago. Since then, we had ups and downs. I am trying to go over that, she has apologized and promised it all stopped (meetings in car at least). She is thinking I am over reacting, nothing too bad happened, she was just feeling important that he was telling her important information about the work and colleagues, however mixed with his personal life details, she admit… She realizes sitting in the car and eventual kissing was totally unacceptable, but she did not fall in love with him, she just thought bit of flirting is not bad if that can give her more opportunity at work.

On my side, I am quite shaken due to the situation. I do not trust the story about one kiss – if I am sitting with the any woman 5 times in car and get only one lame kiss, I would feel very bad about my manly skills. I am not sure if they actually had to the point of having sex, but I would not be surprised even that happened at one of business trips. Even due that single kiss and obvious emotional affair (kind of), I am showing big signs of depression and constant anxiety and I am very nervous. Every day she is going to work and I know she is meeting that man I feel very bad, I can’t stop thinking about what was happening, I can’t concentrate at my work and I am worrying it will hit me back soon very hard.

We discussed changing her work, but it is not that easy. She has unique opportunity in this company, leaving would push her back at least few years and who knows if and when she would at all have new job. We need her salary to support the family and pay the mortgage, losing that money would have serious impact on us ( however we could survive on my earning for a while but it would be much more difficult then now). I agreed that she keep working there, limit their contact to only professional activities, but it is very difficult of course when he is her direct manager.

Also, few days after the d-day, I called OM and asked to meet him. We met in the pub during the lunch, I accused him that he wants to screw my wife, and his explanation was that acoustic in the office is very bad, everyone can hear what they are talking and he was forced to call her for private meetings in his car to discuss important stuff. Funny guy, who on the Earth would believe that bull****… He denied any kissing. I told him that if whatever was going on continues, I would expose it to his wife, notify HR in the company, and I would expect that he resigns as it is totally unprofessional that superior has relation with one of his married employees. He was noticeably shaking during the meeting, and I am pretty sure he was scared a lot and looking for the way out of trouble.

I tried to fix my issues too, I started exercising in the gym, I lost additional 5 kg and started getting nice muscles, bought new clothes, perfumes, starting shaving more regularly, seeing friends for drink after work – I am trying to move on as much as I can. Also I am paying more attention to kids and spending more quality time with them, as it was one of the complaints of my wife, But, the anxiety and semi-depression is not going away, we have 2-3 good days then we start talking again about the affair and fighting about different perceptions of what has happened. She expect me to get over it and can’t believe that almost for 4 months this nightmare is not stopping, sometimes we even consider the divorce and if we do not have 2 small kids probably that would be one of the options.
I wonder what the community thinks about this situation… Am I too sensitive or maybe I am having some real jealousy issues as my wife claims, should I really get over that in these 4 months or it is impossible? How things are going, I doubt I would ever be able to get over it if she continues working next to him, even she promised hard that I have no reason to worry. She knows that any repeated situation would be catastrophic and lead straight to the divorce, of which she is very afraid. Also, he is also well aware that I can make him lot of trouble if I go public with the story to the company and his family… Is my anxiety and unrest having a real reason behind, is that something normal, or am I just going nuts and over reacting…?

I still love my wife, I do not want to lose her, I think she also still has feelings for me, but for both of us the biggest concern is well being of the kids, neither of us wants to deal with the all the mess that divorce brings. Even I think it is not so serious what happened to destroy the family, it was not a 5 years full blown affair. But, if I do not get over this and manage to concentrate while she is at work, I am risking losing my job which could be catastrophic event having in mind I am bringing 2/3 of family income and she only 1/3. When we are together I have no issues, I do not think about the affair, but when I am alone it starts over and over… and especially while she is at work. I wonder, if she changes the job, would anything change? Is the anxiety linked for her working with the OM, or just the fact we are not together? It would be really bad if finally I make her quit the job, and I keep feeling the same at the new job once she finds it

Thanks for the help and advices….


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## Chaparral

It’s a full blown affair!

What country do you live in?

You need to ask her to take a polygraph!

You screwed up telling her how you know what you know. Stop
That now.


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## AlbertG

I am in Europe... English is not my native language, i guess it is obvious ;-)


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## ButtPunch

Chaparral said:


> It’s a full blown affair!
> 
> What country do you live in?
> 
> You need to ask her to take a polygraph!
> 
> You screwed up telling her how you know what you know. Stop
> That now.


This!

Don't believe their gaslighting.

She takes a polygraph or you file for divorce.


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## SentHereForAReason

I can already see the expert opinions coming out on this one and they will be pretty resounding and unanimous in their advice and respected opinion.

With my numerous failings over the past 7 months, I can just give you what I see here in my novice opinion. 

- they have done a lot more than what she has said, maybe not intercourse but certainly more than a pull away kiss
- they have talked more and about more than what you can imagine sadly
- regardless of how much money she makes, she needs to leave that job if your marriage is to continue, that or he needs to leave, I think it makes it a lot easier that she is not the primary bread winner as an added bonus
- I'm torn on this but I would probably notify HR regardless of if she leaves the job or not and especially if she goes against you and will not leave the job. Even if both of them were single, the relationship is HIGHLY inappropriate in a workplace setting, even more so now that both are married.
- I think most here, could be wrong but most here will say expose (no matter what) to the other man's wife the absolute evidence you have, not the assumptions but the facts that you have. I would again, just like notifying HR, do this regardless BUT ESPECIALLY if she is not compliant on leaving the job or has doubts about reconciling. 

You are not over thinking this in a jealous way, if anything you are greatly minimizing what happened here and is happening. It's time to break up the fantasy and her warm and fuzzy feelings for a boss that just wants his cake and to eat it too. 

If you want to reconcile. I would greatly recommend getting help for the both you, including counseling. In some marriages the cheating comes as a shock and everything seems to have been going great up until that point but in this case, like many of the cheating scenarios, you guys were on a path of having issues, issues that weren't being addressed properly, openly and successfully. 

Hopefully you caught this soon enough but it scares the Hell out of me that the meat of this happened 4 months ago. Still never too late to act but each day you waste is exponentially bad now.


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## ButtPunch

stillfightingforus said:


> I can already see the expert opinions coming out on this one and they will be pretty resounding and unanimous in their advice and respected opinion.
> 
> With my numerous failings over the past 7 months, I can just give you what I see here in my novice opinion.
> 
> - they have done a lot more than what she has said, maybe not intercourse but certainly more than a pull away kiss
> - they have talked more and about more than what you can imagine sadly
> - regardless of how much money she makes, she needs to leave that job if your marriage is to continue, that or he needs to leave, I think it makes it a lot easier that she is not the primary bread winner as an added bonus
> - I'm torn on this but I would probably notify HR regardless of if she leaves the job or not and especially if she goes against you and will not leave the job. Even if both of them were single, the relationship is HIGHLY inappropriate in a workplace setting, even more so now that both are married.
> - I think most here, could be wrong but most here will say expose (no matter what) to the other man's wife the absolute evidence you have, not the assumptions but the facts that you have. I would again, just like notifying HR, do this regardless BUT ESPECIALLY if she is not compliant on leaving the job or has doubts about reconciling.
> 
> You are not over thinking this in a jealous way, if anything you are greatly minimizing what happened here and is happening. It's time to break up the fantasy and her warm and fuzzy feelings for a boss that just wants his cake and to eat it too.
> 
> If you want to reconcile. I would greatly recommend getting help for the both you, including counseling. In some marriages the cheating comes as a shock and everything seems to have been going great up until that point but in this case, like many of the cheating scenarios, you guys were on a path of having issues, issues that weren't being addressed properly, openly and successfully.
> 
> Hopefully you caught this soon enough but it scares the Hell out of me that the meat of this happened 4 months ago. Still never too late to act but each day you waste is exponentially bad now.


I agree with some of this but not all.

If infidelity is a dealbreaker for you, do not get your wife fired.
Do not expose either yet as you would be setting up a volatile divorce.

If you want to reconcile, she needs to quit her job immediately.
She refuses, then it's divorce.


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## VladDracul

You may as well tell her you believe, due to them "parking" like two teenagers, its gone beyond kissing. Her, "you're too jealous" comment is womanese for, "ok, you caught me with my hand in the cookie jar, and now I tied of hearing about it." Not wanting your wife playing grab fanny with another man is not jealousy.


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## SentHereForAReason

ButtPunch said:


> I agree with some of this but not all.
> 
> If infidelity is a dealbreaker for you, do not get your wife fired.
> Do not expose either yet as you would be setting up a volatile divorce.
> 
> If you want to reconcile, she needs to quit her job immediately.
> She refuses, then it's divorce.


Good counterpoints here. I was actually told by my lawyer not to tell her employer about anything, which included her basically using her job to go out and meet with the other man (customer) often. She said that she could get fired for this and I would not only, not really help my case but I would be paying her alimony too!


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## SentHereForAReason

ButtPunch said:


> This!
> 
> Don't believe their gaslighting.
> 
> She takes a polygraph or you file for divorce.


OP, check to see if this applies to you, it sure as Hell did in my case. My wife qualified for most of these points!

https://infidelityrecoveryinstitute.com/infidelity-101/manipulation-or-gaslighting/


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## ButtPunch

One more thing

Like most newly betrayed.....if you are in shock and unsure as to what you want (R or D)?

You should then expose to the OM's wife to try and kill the affair.


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## AlbertG

ButtPunch said:


> One more thing
> 
> Like most newly betrayed.....if you are in shock and unsure as to what you want (R or D)?
> 
> You should then expose to the OM's wife to try and kill the affair.


I do not want to divorce... and neither is she
But also I do not want to move my depression to her if she ends up jobless for a long time


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## SentHereForAReason

AlbertG said:


> I do not want to divorce... and neither is she
> But also I do not want to move my depression to her if she ends up jobless for a long time


You cannot rationalize this aspect unfortunately. If she wants to stay married, she needs to leave that job or he does. Is it a company where he can be located to a different location, etc? 

I have a feeling that you aren't in the USA but we are in a super sensitive age right now here. If a boss is abusing his power to have an affair with an employee that he oversees that company is not going to like the litigation that may come his way for potential sexual harassment.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Your wife has been sleeping with him for months. She even buys special underwear for the occasion. You know it, I know it, every reader of your post knows it. It's clear as day. Sorry. 

What are are you going to do about it?


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## AlbertG

ButtPunch said:


> One more thing
> 
> Like most newly betrayed.....if you are in shock and unsure as to what you want (R or D)?
> 
> You should then expose to the OM's wife to try and kill the affair.


and other thing is, affair should be kind of stopped i hope, i am pretty sure that her boss would fire her if he can, but he is afraid to do so as he knows i would go for revenge and expose. I also know he had similiar case in the past when one of employees reported him for harassment, so if that happens again he would be in deep *hit


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Divorce your wife. She is sleeping with with him.


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## AlbertG

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Divorce your wife. She is sleeping with with him.


yes, if i do not have 2 kids below 5 i would maybe do that... and what then? be a weekend daddy?I need real solution and not that...


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## Tatsuhiko

She has been having sex with her boss, not just kissing. The new underwear was for him and him alone. It's despicable that she is trying to convince you that you're jealous and irrational. This is called "gaslighting". She might still be engaged in the affair, only they've learned to hide it better. 

I would expose to the boss's wife immediately, without warning. Tell her the whole story about them meeting in a car before work, multiple trips together with time unaccounted for, new underwear, everything. This will set his house on fire and make him pull back from whatever activity he's engaged in with your wife. Your wife will find out and be very angry with you. Instead of accommodating her anger, ask for specifics on why she is still communicating with him on personal matters, and how often they've been meeting to have sex. 

Insist that she be tested for sexually-transmitted diseases and show you the results. Ask her if you are indeed the father of your children and tell her you intend to test their genes to determine if you are the father (assuming this is allowed in your country!). 

It is time to get tough. Very tough. Make her realize that her marriage is in danger unless she takes some serious steps to rectify things. Do not listen to any nonsense about your "jealousy issues". Tell her that you _know_ she slept with her boss and that you need to understand how many times and if there were ever any other men.

Hide a voice-activated recorder (VAR) in her car to capture her conversations and possible sexual activity with him. Note that what I'm advising is probably illegal in your country.

Call the boss. Bluff him into believing that your wife confessed to multiple sexual encounters. See what he says in response.


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## badmemory

AlbertG said:


> , i am pretty sure that her boss would fire her if he can, but he is afraid to do so as he knows i would go for revenge and expose. I also know he had similiar case in the past when one of employees reported him for harassment, so if that happens again he would be in deep *hit


Well in this country, that would be a best case scenario if he fired her. Any attorney would jump all over that. Especially if the company had deep pockets.

Other thoughts:

Of course she had sex with him.

You need to tell his wife.

The marriage will not survive if she continues to work with him because the affair will continue. You have to make a decision between what's more important; her income or your marriage.


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## SentHereForAReason

AlbertG said:


> and other thing is, affair should be kind of stopped i hope, i am pretty sure that her boss would fire her if he can, but he is afraid to do so as he knows i would go for revenge and expose. I also know he had similiar case in the past when one of employees reported him for harassment, so if that happens again he would be in deep *hit


Interesting! First things first, I would not tell your wife what you are doing investigative wise but I would start obviously working on the list of musts that the has to do in order to win back your trust and commitment to the marriage.

Secondly though, anyway you can talk to the person that reported him for harassment? It's time this guy learns for good that he can no longer do what he has been doing and will have to find somewhere else to do it, once he's ****-canned


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## SentHereForAReason

Tatsuhiko said:


> She has been having sex with her boss, not just kissing. The new underwear was for him and him alone. It's despicable that she is trying to convince you that you're jealous and irrational. This is called "gaslighting". She might still be engaged in the affair, only they've learned to hide it better.
> 
> I would expose to the boss's wife immediately, without warning. Tell her the whole story about them meeting in a car before work, multiple trips together with time unaccounted for, new underwear, everything. This will set his house on fire and make him pull back from whatever activity he's engaged in with your wife. Your wife will find out and be very angry with you. Instead of accommodating her anger, ask for specifics on why she is still communicating with him on personal matters, and how often they've been meeting to have sex.
> 
> Insist that she be tested for sexually-transmitted diseases and show you the results. Ask her if you are indeed the father of your children and tell her you intend to test their genes to determine if you are the father (assuming this is allowed in your country!).
> 
> It is time to get tough. Very tough. Make her realize that her marriage is in danger unless she takes some serious steps to rectify things. Do not listen to any nonsense about your "jealousy issues". Tell her that you _know_ she slept with her boss and that you need to understand how many times and if there were ever any other men.
> 
> Hide a voice-activated recorder (VAR) in her car to capture her conversations and possible sexual activity with him. Note that what I'm advising is probably illegal in your country.
> 
> *Call the boss. Bluff him into believing that your wife confessed to multiple sexual encounters. See what he says in response.*


Only be willing to do that if you can hold up the bluff, otherwise it will backfire and even the stuff you know is true will be a doubt in your mind if this guys is a master of manipulation. I wouldn't call the dude until after you have your ducks in a row and have your complete plan on what you want to execute and go for the kill on your objectives. Calling him now will make him hyper-sensitive even more and give him more time and more incentive to do some pre-emptive work on his end. I know you talked to him but hopefully he believes your fears have died down a bit and hit him when he least expects it indirectly. Once you have fired your shots with great planning, you can call him afterward as an added bonus to wish him well and stock up plenty of ice for where he is headed in the after-life.


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## Chaparral

If thousands of threads here prove one thing it is that affair partners CAN NOT WORK TOGETHER. Think about it. There is a million ways for them to communicate and have sex with out you ever knowing about it. 

It’s either the job or the marriage, your choice.


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## syhoybenden

ButtPunch said:


> One more thing
> 
> Like most newly betrayed.....if you are in shock and unsure as to what you want (R or D)?
> 
> You should then expose to the OM's wife to try and kill the affair.



Do not let your wife know that you have exposed the affair to the boss's wife.

If she is suddenly very mad at you then you have proof positive that they are still going behind your back.


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## naiveonedave

AlbertG said:


> yes, if i do not have 2 kids below 5 i would maybe do that... and what then? be a weekend daddy?I need real solution and not that...


so you are willing to have a cheating wife, just to placate the kids? what kind of lesson is that for them? how good of parents are you going to be when you find your anger at your W for being a sl*t?

She won't stop the affair if they are working together, read stories on this site, it is virtually impossible for a work place affair to stop if one doesn't find a new job elsewhere.


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## Chaparral

Your wife gave you the I love you but not in love with you speech. Now this is important. How was your sex life before the affair, during the affair, right after you found out and now?

Yes you definitely need to tell his wife too!


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## Roselyn

OP, career woman here, 37 years married (first time for the both of us), & 60 years old. Your wife has a full blown affair with her boss. I have been in the same job for 28 years. I have seen this scenario many times before. See an attorney with the intent of notifying HR for their sexual activity. 

Have your attorney send a letter to HR demanding his removal. As for your demands, make it clear that your wife holds her position in the company or she will sue for sexual harassment & expose the company for damages. He will lose his job & she wil learn a hard lesson. Make this move as quickly as possible, before you make any legal mistakes.

Sorry you are here.


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## Chaparral

The biggest reason you are not healing is you know what they might be up to anytime she walks out the door because she will be with him. 

Read more threads here. Notice how all the cheaters say the same things? Notice how they all tell the same lies and blame their spouse? Doesn’t it look like they all read the same book about what to do if they get caught?

Does she still have cheating apps on her phone? Has she given you access to all her email accounts, her phone and computers etc. Can you still track her car? She can leave her phone at work during lunch and leave with him. Have gone to her work at lunch or after work to see what they do? Do they leave early to do their thing?


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## SentHereForAReason

Roselyn said:


> OP, career woman here, 37 years married (first time for the both of us), & 60 years old. Your wife has a full blown affair with her boss. I have been in the same job for 28 years. I have seen this scenario many times before. See an attorney with the intent of notifying HR for their sexual activity.
> 
> Have your attorney send a letter to HR demanding his removal. As for your demands, make it clear that your wife holds her position in the company or she will sue for sexual harassment & expose the company for damages. He will lose his job & she wil learn a hard lesson. Make this move as quickly as possible, before you make any legal mistakes.
> 
> Sorry you are here.


Crucial part here is talking to an attorney to make sure you do this the right way and effective way. Your attorney will probably advise against notifying OM's wife but do as you wish there.


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## VladDracul

AlbertG said:


> yes, if i do not have 2 kids below 5 i would maybe do that... and what then? be a weekend daddy?I need real solution and not that...


Why not just make the best of a bad situation? Just consider it as her having a little outside recreation from a routine marriage. She back, has an income to improve your life, wanting to stay, and best of all, her "equipment" is not too worse for the wear. It it weren't for the messages, the underwear, and the swollen lip, you'd be none the wiser so why sweat it? 
In the final analysis, this whole thing may be like shyt. The more you stir it whe worse it stinks.


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## Diana7

If they only kissed then why did she buy sexy underwear? If she didn't want to kiss him then why did she keep meeting him before work? Sorry she is lying and she needs to look for another job now. If you are happy to stay with a cheater and liar, then make sure that her new job doesn't involve traveling, and that you have full access to her phones etc. 
You then need to discuss boundaries for her in the future. 

I dont see how you can think of forgiving her when she isn't telling you the truth. You also need to get tested for STD's. Also make sure his wife knows. She is also blaming you which is a classic cheater behaviour.
To be honest until she tells the truth and is repentant I cant see any hope. At the moment she is in denial and is still lying. She is also not taking responsibility for what she has done.


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## Chaparral

You asked if you can get over this. If the two of you both really want to get individual counseling and BOTH work hard at you can but it will take three to five years. 

I reread you first post. After you confronted her the first time , she kept seeing him and parking before work correct?


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## AlbertG

Chaparral said:


> You asked if you can get over this. If the two of you both really want to get individual counseling and BOTH work hard at you can but it will take three to five years.
> 
> I reread you first post. After you confronted her the first time , she kept seeing him and parking before work correct?


yes, for the one last time, before i told her i know


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## MyRevelation

Tatsuhiko said:


> She has been having sex with her boss, not just kissing. The new underwear was for him and him alone. It's despicable that she is trying to convince you that you're jealous and irrational. This is called "gaslighting". She might still be engaged in the affair, only they've learned to hide it better.
> 
> I would expose to the boss's wife immediately, without warning. Tell her the whole story about them meeting in a car before work, multiple trips together with time unaccounted for, new underwear, everything. This will set his house on fire and make him pull back from whatever activity he's engaged in with your wife. Your wife will find out and be very angry with you. Instead of accommodating her anger, ask for specifics on why she is still communicating with him on personal matters, and how often they've been meeting to have sex.
> 
> Insist that she be tested for sexually-transmitted diseases and show you the results. Ask her if you are indeed the father of your children and tell her you intend to test their genes to determine if you are the father (assuming this is allowed in your country!).
> 
> It is time to get tough. Very tough. Make her realize that her marriage is in danger unless she takes some serious steps to rectify things. Do not listen to any nonsense about your "jealousy issues". Tell her that you _know_ she slept with her boss and that you need to understand how many times and if there were ever any other men.
> 
> Hide a voice-activated recorder (VAR) in her car to capture her conversations and possible sexual activity with him. Note that what I'm advising is probably illegal in your country.
> 
> Call the boss. Bluff him into believing that your wife confessed to multiple sexual encounters. See what he says in response.


Albert,

You say you are not considering D, and want advise on what actions to take to avoid D ... Well, ^^^THIS^^^ is an excellent place to start.

1st have a chat with the bosses W. Don't embellish, just give the facts that you know and let her run with it.

2nd require STD testing of you W. Let some hard cold reality hit her square in the face.

Start referring to this as an AFFAIR when discussing with your W. Let her know you consider it an A with full blown sexual contact until she can prove to your otherwise.

Place a VAR in her car and you'll soon know the full extent of what you're dealing with.

Tell her you expect her to find other employment. Yeah, it may set her career back and it may be a financial strain on the family budget, but it won't be near a destructive financially as a D, and if she balks, remind her that SHE brought all of this on herself with her own actions, so if she wants to be pissy tell her to go look in the mirror for the person responsible for her pissiness.

I'd hold off on confronting the OM ... you've already done that (KUDOS on that action BTW) ... let his W handle that side.

Be strong ... take meaningful actions ... and don't take bull**** and lies from people who've betrayed you.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Chaparral said:


> You asked if you can get over this. If the two of you both really want to get individual counseling and BOTH work hard at you can but it will take three to five years.
> 
> I reread you first post. After you confronted her the first time , she kept seeing him and parking before work correct?


Good point, the fog didn't lift at that point, it didn't even lift an inch off the ground. She kept trucking along. And as I have learned just this week, the fog still remains even when the divorce papers are printed and served..


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## Yeswecan

The entire narrative read straight out of the cheater handbook. 

1. Your W is cheating(full blown affair, sex involved, sexy underwear)
2. Your W need to quit the job as the affair continues if she stays. 
3. The boss quits the job instead. Contact HR. 
4. Exposure will stop this. Expose OM to his W. Probably not his first go around
5. Expose your W to family. Do not be a party to your W secret
6. Separate finances. This is long from over. My not last. Be prepared
7. Contact legal counsel and know you rights
8. Most important....none of the poor choices your WW made is your fault. NONE! 

Keep posting. We are here for you.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> The entire narrative read straight out of the cheater handbook.
> 
> 1. Your W is cheating(full blown affair, sex involved, sexy underwear)
> 2. Your W need to quit the job as the affair continues if she stays.
> 3. The boss quits the job instead. Contact HR.
> 4. *Exposure will stop this. Expose OM to his W. Probably not his first go around*
> 5. Expose your W to family. Do not be a party to your W secret
> 6. Separate finances. This is long from over. My not last. Be prepared
> 7. Contact legal counsel and know you rights
> 8. Most important....none of the poor choices your WW made is your fault. NONE!
> 
> Keep posting. We are here for you.


Evident by the prior harassment charges. Again, see if you can get some info from the person that brought up these charges before, maybe give you some good leverage.


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## Thor

Albert, you have stated that your goal is to save your marriage. That can result in a really good new marriage (the old one is dead forever), or it can result in decades of misery for you. The process you follow and your mindset about it will determine the outcome. Many of us come here (or go to marriage therapy) with the goal of "saving the marriage", and usually it is because of the kids. I think that is a defective thought process. The goal is for your children to have the best possible outcome, and for you to have a happy life.

Right now, anything is possible. But what is likely? And, at some point there are outcomes which will not be possible. If your W continues in the affair, or has multiple other affairs, it may not be possible for you to have a happy marriage with this woman. Which means it may not be possible for your children to live in a happy home with married parents. The best outcome may be for divorce and for you to provide a happy home when they are with you.

I think you should re-evaluate your goal. Instead of saving the marriage (at any cost), perhaps it should be to get to the best real outcome for you and your children. Yes, try to rebuild a new happy marriage. But if that is not possible, staying married could be the worse outcome for your kids.


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## Thor

Your W has already confessed to infidelity. She has confessed to a kiss. She confessed to having private get togethers with her boss in his car. This is all you need in order to start requiring her to make changes.

I would investigate further, and I would approach her about rebuilding the marriage.

1) Investigation. Have you been to the place her GPS showed? Put a VAR in her car. If you can access her cell phone, get in there and look at everything. Do check the deleted emails folder. If you can get access to her laptop or tablet, do that, too.

2) Approach her. I would first stop all the discussions about what she did. Go quiet for a week or two while you investigate. Then if nothing new turns up, confront her about rebuilding trust in the marriage. Tell her once that you consider what she has done to be infidelity. Kissing another man is cheating. Don't debate it with her, just tell her this is how you see it. Tell her that going in a car off-site with him numerous times has shaken your trust in her. Again, don't debate it. Just tell her this is how you see it. Then I would tell her that in order to move forward in the marriage you need assurance that you know all there is to know. So, she must take a polygraph. I am not normally a fan of polygraphs, but in your case I think it will be helpful. Assuming she agrees to the polygraph and passes it, then you move on to marriage therapy.

The process will determine the outcome. If all she did was what she has told you, then you may be able to regain trust over time. Marriage therapy will be a big part of that. If she did more than she has told you, the process will reveal it. You can then make decisions with the new information.

If your goal is to save the marriage because of the kids, there's no reason to investigate or talk to her. If you're willing to stay with what has happened already, she has no reason to stop doing it.


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## Thor

Follow your lawyer's advice! We would all love to see this boss fired, but you need to do what is right for you and your kids. In some countries you could be in trouble for telling the truth about his actions. Be strategic, not emotional.


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## SentHereForAReason

Thor said:


> Follow your lawyer's advice! We would all love to see this boss fired, but you need to do what is right for you and your kids. In some countries you could be in trouble for telling the truth about his actions. Be strategic, not emotional.


But use the emotion to push you through the strategic moves if that makes sense. Right now, I'm using my anger not to be resentful or hostile towards anyone but to make sure I'm following through with what needs to be done for my kids and the process of the impending divorce in my case.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

AlbertG said:


> yes, if i do not have 2 kids below 5 i would maybe do that... and what then? be a weekend daddy?I need real solution and not that...


Be a man whose children can look up to him as an example. That example can be a cuckold who tolerates his wife being bedded by other men and says he does so for the sake of his children.

OR

Someone who sets an example and says no, my children are better off if I do not tolerate my wife bedding other men.

your choice.


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## TX-SC

I agree with the others that you likely only know part of the story and your wife is trickle truthing you. Your marriage is probably salvageable, but you need to be proactive to save it. Your wife needs counseling and she needs to quit her job or turn him in for harrassment. She also needs to be open with all social media, telephone, and texting, etc. She should account for her whereabouts at all times.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Taxman

OP
I had a similar situation a few years ago. She was working for a small time property manager. He was getting personal and all of her rebuffs were ignored. She came home one day to say he grabbed her ass. Nope nope nope. I have always been a bigger guy, 5'11' and at that time upper 200's. The following day, I told her to stay home and not call in. At 9:00AM I waltz into her office. The boss recognises me and asks why I am there. I tell him that my wife is at the lawyers and we are suing for sexual harassment. A copy of our complaint is going to his wife and all of his major clients (I was in the same business and knew who he did business with). As expected, he lost his temper. He was shaking his fist at me, and I warned him that if he makes one aggressive move, he will regret it. Again, what an *******, he took a poke. I merely caught his wrist, and put his hand flat on the desk. Told him that was the hand he used to grab my wife's ass, and I vice gripped his hand until it turned blue. He was in significant pain, and I told him I wanted four months of salary, and this will be forgotten. He paid, she quit, and then we called his wife to let her know.


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## Rhubarb

As everyone else has being saying, It's obvious she had a full blown affair with her boss. If it were me I would divorce her (in fact I actually did divorce my wife when she cheated). Before I got around to it I put up with all the half heated BS your wife is feeding you now and it got me nothing but heartache. I cried, I worried and I coudn't sleep, on and on and on. You need to take charge. 

Even if you want to resolve things with your wife, you haven't even reached step one. She has to own it completely and she really isn't doing that. She isn't going to own it until you make her do so. You need to be ready to divorce her even if you eventually don't go through with it. Tell her you want a divorce, tell the bosses wife about the affair and go see a lawyer. Tell her you KNOW she had sex with him and the only small chance you have of staying with her is if she comes clean under a polygraph. She will never respond to weakness. You need to go on the offensive much more than you are. This is true whether you want a divorce or you want to resolve things with her.


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## Chaparral

stillfightingforus said:


> Good point, the fog didn't lift at that point, it didn't even lift an inch off the ground. She kept trucking along. And as I have learned just this week, the fog still remains even when the divorce papers are printed and served..


There is no reason to think the affair ever even slowed down. A good indicator would be how their sex life was and is now. 

She knows she got caught when he first talked to her and she did not quit meeting him where she could be caught until he let her know he could track her car. 

Now she is trying to get him to shut up and forget about it and still see her lover every day at work. As things stand there is a 100% chance this is going to fail unless drastic changes are made.


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## happy as a clam

Roselyn said:


> OP, career woman here, 37 years married (first time for the both of us), & 60 years old. Your wife has a full blown affair with her boss. I have been in the same job for 28 years. I have seen this scenario many times before. See an attorney with the intent of notifying HR for their sexual activity.
> 
> Have your attorney send a letter to HR demanding his removal. As for your demands, make it clear that your wife holds her position in the company or she will sue for sexual harassment & expose the company for damages. He will lose his job & she wil learn a hard lesson. Make this move as quickly as possible, before you make any legal mistakes.
> 
> Sorry you are here.


THIS. THIS. THIS.

Just went through something similar in my office. Large corporation, boss got fired, female clerk got a settlement; as part of the settlement she had to sign a nondisclosure “gag order” of sorts and agreed to quietly leave the company.

Of course, she could have stayed in her job but she was humiliated and disgraced since everyone in the company figured out why he got fired.


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## Graywolf2

I agree with many of the post here but what do you want? 

I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE FOLLOWING UNLESS YOU MUST STAY MARRIED AND KEEP HER JOB.

Both your wife and her OM seem to be desperate to keep their jobs. That is your leverage. 

You already have enough to cause major problems with their employer. No one will believe that they met before work in an industrial zone to discuss important things because the acoustics are better. 

But more proof is better.

Save all your evidence (receipts, GPS data etc.) in several safe places including the cloud.

Place a VAR where your wife talks on the phone (under her car seat for example)

LOOK HERE: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

You scared them so much that they may have stopped at least for now. So you may find nothing for a bit. Be patient and don’t rock the boat. 
Once you get better proof tell them that you will disclose everything if they step out of line. Make whatever demands you want to make yourself feel more secure.



AlbertG said:


> We had sex less and less (not because I wanted but she was always tired), and that was quite bothering me.


She was tired because she was getting up early to have sex with the OM. Tell her that now she can have sex with you.


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## MattMatt

@AlbertG She has "unique opportunities" to cheat on her husband and her children.

How does she justify cheating on her children?


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## ButtPunch

AlbertG said:


> yes, if i do not have 2 kids below 5 i would maybe do that... and what then? be a weekend daddy?I need real solution and not that...


This isn't up to you anymore....

she made the decisions

now is not the time for you to be pushing reconciliation

even if that's what you want


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## Sports Fan

Albert a few realities. Your wife does not buy new underwear which she puts on her personal account without telling you 3 days before a business trip just to kiss. They fuc...ked many times. On their trip away they spent their spare time screwing every spare moment they got.

Her swollen lip is from the extensive kissing and blow jobs she showered him with. You need to enforce some severe consequences hard and fast. Especially if you are intent on saving the marriage at all cost. At the moment your wife is a lying unrepented cheater who does not give a stuff about her betrayal or your feelings. Indeed she has followed true cheater script blaming you and telling you to get over it.

You need to visit a divorce lawyer ASAP. Seperate any joint accounts by withdrawing all the money into your own personal account. Cancel any joint credit cards, and direct your own pay in your personal account. Expose the affair to the other mans wife and their workplace. She must leave the job immediately. She cannot stay working there whilst the other man is there. Have no remorse for your actions and stay strong. If you truly want to save your marriage this is your best bet. Cheaters only respect strong men that take decisive action. You cannot nice her back. At present she has experienced no consequences for her behaviour so she has no reason to change it.


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## FalCod

This is so weird. I'm used to seeing posts on here like "My spouse got a text message from someone. Should I divorce them?" This is a post from someone that doesn't seem to think his wife has done more than kiss this guy despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Why on earth did she hide the purchase of the lingerie? All those clandestine pre-work meetings and it was just a kiss? You've caught her in boldfaced lies. Dude, she's cheating on you.

At this point, look for advice on evidence gathering. Use a VAR. Use a tracker. Build your case. Protect your assets. Hire the meanest lawyer in the world while telling her that you want to make the divorce amicable and then get everything you can out of the deal.


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## chillymorn69

A part time dad is better than being misserable and married to a cheating spouce.

Your kids will learn how to bevemotionally cold to their future spouces growing up in a family with all this drama going on in the back ground. 

Once a cheater always a cheater even if she ends this affair there will be another bloke down the road.

Call a lawyer know your rights!



Expuse the om to his wife !


Don't do anything to cause your wife to lose her job.


Put you big boy paints on then lace up you ass licking boots and kick this excuse of a wife/mother to the curb.

OR FOREVER REGRET IT!

good speed


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## Archangel2

@AlbertG - A couple of questions:

1. Do you normally have access to view her personal account? If so, you would have every right to question her purchase of the sexy lingerie which you have not yet seen.
2. Does your wife have any family nearby. If so, you can afford to expose her behavior to them.


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## [email protected]

What everyone else is telling you, is that you need to do the hard 180.


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## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> @AlbertG - A couple of questions:
> 
> 1. Do you normally have access to view her personal account? If so, you would have every right to question her purchase of the sexy lingerie which you have not yet seen.
> 2. Does your wife have any family nearby. If so, you can afford to expose her behavior to them.


This! When I exposed to her family that really had a stake in this and cared for us both, they told me they wish they would have KNOWN a lot sooner. For one, they were helping me and her as if we just had common marriage issues and the strategy for that type of help is a lot different than the help you need for cheating issues.


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## Chaparral

Albert, the advice here is pretty consistent. No one here is thinking it was only kissing. The reason is because of the similarity of how your wife is acting and how a thousands of other threads here show the exact same actions. I would not bet my house on it but I would definitely bet a few hundred dollars.

There is an extremely high chance the affair has just gone underground. The reason we asked about your sex life before and after was to gauge what her motives are. You need to know if she is really wanting to stay married or if she just sees you as a temporary plan B. It is almost a rule if a wife cuts her husband off it’s because she is actually being faithful to her lover.

If she hasn’t been love bombing you , called hysterical bonding, she probably has one foot out the door. If she was cutting you off from sex it is fairly certain she was in love with the other man. 
She already said things that indicate she respects and admired him compared to you. Has she changed her mind about that? Has she apologized for being a rotten wife and mother. Is she willing to go to individual counseling and later go to marriage counseling?

There aren’t any threads here where the affair partners continued to work together and the affair did not go underground or start back up later when they thought they were trusted again. One of them has to leave the job. Now this depends on what country you live in and how your wife would be treated if you exposed them at their work. Would he be fired or both be fired? What is likely to happen. Some people say her getting fired in this country may cost more alimony. No one has ever shown that to be true however. Judges generally hate cheaters though they are not supposed to consider adultery. In fact, what we see here is if a cheater gets fired or quits the judge will use their previous earnings in calculating their income. Your country may be completely different. At least talk to a lawyer n your area to find out where you stand. 


The biggest reason for this is that from what you are saying, your wife is not acting in a way that she is going to be able to participate in a successful marriage with you.

That is why you are still having as much trouble as you are. There are many good books available that can help you but at this point your wife just seems to be treading water and not all in on being your loving wife.


----------



## Yeswecan

happy as a clam said:


> THIS. THIS. THIS.
> 
> Just went through something similar in my office. Large corporation, boss got fired, female clerk got a settlement; as part of the settlement she had to sign a nondisclosure “gag order” of sorts and agreed to quietly leave the company.
> 
> Of course, she could have stayed in her job but she was humiliated and disgraced since everyone in the company figured out why he got fired.


Never dip the pen in the company ink.


----------



## SunCMars

Yeswecan said:


> Never dip the pen in the company ink.



Right...

Dip your pen in invisible ink.

Read only with special lights.

Low light conditions. 
Low life conditions

Infra-red conditions.
Inferred red lip conditions. kissed to puffy.

Ultra-violet conditions.
Ultra violated conditions, bruising and swelling give aways.


----------



## Yeswecan

SunCMars said:


> Right...
> 
> Dip your pen in invisible ink.
> 
> Read only with special lights.
> 
> Low light conditions.
> Low life conditions
> 
> Infra-red conditions.
> Inferred red lip conditions. kissed to puffy.
> 
> Ultra-violet conditions.
> Ultra violated conditions, bruising and swelling give aways.


Di-ck Tracy type stuff.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Chaparral said:


> Albert, the advice here is pretty consistent. No one here is thinking it was only kissing. The reason is because of the similarity of how your wife is acting and how a thousands of other threads here show the exact same actions. I would not bet my house on it but I would definitely bet a few hundred dollars.
> 
> There is an extremely high chance the affair has just gone underground. The reason we asked about your sex life before and after was to gauge what her motives are. You need to know if she is really wanting to stay married or if she just sees you as a temporary plan B. It is almost a rule if a wife cuts her husband off it’s because she is actually being faithful to her lover.
> 
> If she hasn’t been love bombing you , called hysterical bonding, she probably has one foot out the door. If she was cutting you off from sex it is fairly certain she was in love with the other man.
> She already said things that indicate she respects and admired him compared to you. Has she changed her mind about that? Has she apologized for being a rotten wife and mother. Is she willing to go to individual counseling and later go to marriage counseling?
> 
> There aren’t any threads here where the affair partners continued to work together and the affair did not go underground or start back up later when they thought they were trusted again. One of them has to leave the job. Now this depends on what country you live in and how your wife would be treated if you exposed them at their work. Would he be fired or both be fired? What is likely to happen. Some people say her getting fired in this country may cost more alimony. No one has ever shown that to be true however. Judges generally hate cheaters though they are not supposed to consider adultery. In fact, what we see here is if a cheater gets fired or quits the judge will use their previous earnings in calculating their income. Your country may be completely different. At least talk to a lawyer n your area to find out where you stand.
> 
> 
> The biggest reason for this is that from what you are saying, your wife is not acting in a way that she is going to be able to participate in a successful marriage with you.
> 
> That is why you are still having as much trouble as you are. There are many good books available that can help you but at this point your wife just seems to be treading water and not all in on being your loving wife.


Albert, you have to take this to heart. The advice here is sound. If she cheats on you and comes out of it unscathed, which is where you are right now, she will do it again and again until your balls drop. And I'm more sure she cheated than Chaparral, I _would_ bet his house.

Her seeing you upset is not a consequence for her. The more she knows your upset and not doing anything about it, the less respect for you she has. The less respect for you she has the more she despises you, and the more she despises you the less chance she won't cheat on you more or again. _You must impose consequences on her or your family will continue spiraling down the drain._ Don't let her flush you all right into the sewer.


----------



## AlbertG

First of all, thanks everybody on all your advices. Many of them were helpful, some of them kind of opened my eyes. It is now around one month since I started the thread, and number of things happened since then. At the first moment, when I was reading through all replies here, I started to be very angry again and obsessed with the whole situation, and same day I had the worst fight ever with my wife, where we both were thinking that there is no option other than divorce. However, we decided to give a try to the counseling. Having in mind the reading of all the answers here made me feeling so sh*tty, I decided not to reply for a while until my head gets bit more clear.

Basically I discovered the situation based on my intuition mostly, and after 5 months of fights, discussions, trying to read her mind and analyzing her responses and her behavior, my feeling is that she did not sleep with him, but they very likely had more than one pullback kiss. Reasons for me to think that are various, but mostly based on her reactions in number of situations. One of posters above asked about hysterical bonding, and yes, we had that after the d-day, for a month or two – basically having sex once or twice per day, and now it is bit less but still we are doing it much more than previous 2-3 years.

What she is claiming is that whole situation was a big misunderstanding and she acted without thinking. She said that she knew very well that he is having crush on her, and she was thinking that some flirting won’t do any harm, but actually can give her some advantages at work. She is admitting as her only mistake that she accepted these meetings in the car, and she did not tell me about the meetings as she knew I would be pissed off. On the other hand, she could not easily reject the meetings without impacting the relation she had with him, and on top of that he was giving her confidential information that were worth the risk according to her. She is claiming she was absolutely not in love with him, not even a slightest bit (but I feel she was in love with the excitement and feeling of secrecy and importance around the whole thing)
For all my proofs she has some explanations, for example for the underwear she said that it was in the bedroom in the bag on the floor for 3 days before she left for business trip and she was not hiding it at all from me (and I found indeed the receipt in the paper bag on the floor), and it had only sexy brand name but it is just average set and that she would choose something much nicer for the first date night with potential lover. For the sore lips she said they are due to very cold weather (it was below 0 C) and indeed I noticed again such sore lips on her couple weeks ago when we spent few hours outside walking in the winter. Again, I would be naïve to take it as granted and blindly trust, but still she has at least a bit reasonable explanations.

Regarding her job, we made a deal that she would stay there for another 12 months max. She is expecting promotion that would allow her to search for the other job in the same level at other companies, and she is asking me to understand that and just give her some more time to lock the promotion, use few trainings that she is supposed to get and then go somewhere else to work. I do not think that I am in position to blackmail her now and ask to quit immediately, I think she is at the point where she would do that if I insist, but I know that would make her very unhappy and depressed so I guess I can live with this 12 months deal. And I made sure to understand I want to stick to this [email protected]

The counseling is big disappointment for me. We had 3 sessions until now with 70-years old lady recommended by her work psychologist (whom we both visited by the way). Basically after these sessions my wife and lady counselor painted such picture of myself that I absolutely could not agree with – that I was jealous, not allowing her to go out seeing friends and she stopped that due to my jealousy, that I was acting possessive, not devoting the time to the children, and similar. The last drop was when lady counselor said that I sound paranoid when I said that this picture of myself is not realistic, and it is actually the result of the affair fog my wife is going through where she is rewriting the history and justifying her behavior by blaming me. She said that according to her this was not an affair, but a misunderstanding, that my wife was naïve to accept the meetings in the car, but she can understand her motivation. I could understand as well, if I could only trust her, which I am of course struggling… Nevertheless I decided not to go to this counselor anymore as she was apparently on the side of my wife, they made me look crazy and I still have to pay for that sh*t. I do not know if male counselor would make any difference, but I am not planning to give it a try with anyone else at this point of time.

Also, next day after the big fight I mentioned triggered by me reading the forum, she went to her work psychologist as she was in shock and could not stop crying. It was first time she had chance to tell the story to anyone else except me, and that lady managed to calm her down a bit. She proposed that I also come for a free consultation (paid by her company, so at least I got tiny bit of revenge!), and I had very nice and calm meeting with that lady. I explained her whole situation, what happened, how I feel, etc… She said that she fully understands me, that she had similar situation with her husband in the past and while I was talking to her, I felt she was again going through her own story. I could catch sparkling or tears in her eyes while I was talking. Her message to me was that affairs happen and it is part of the life, it could happen to me as well. She told me that she is sure after the conversation with my wife that she loves me and that she is very hurt with the whole situation, and that I need to release the grip little bit, otherwise I would push her away from me. She told me the story about man in dessert who takes sand in two hands, in one hand he presses the sand and in other he just hold it on his palm, and asked me in which hand I would have more sand? Anyway, after that session I felt quite well and relieved.

My decision at this point of time is to try to keep eyes open for any signs that something is still going on, use the technology for that but also try not to go completely nuts with being detective, and try to reconcile. In case I notice again any sign that actually she made fool of me and any sort of cheating is still going on, with this guy or with anyone else, I am clear in my head that I would not tolerate that and go for divorce, no matter what. So yes, maybe most of the people here would say I am chicken, but after many days and nights of the consideration, this sounds as the most logical option, as I can’t ever be sure if I am right or wrong here, if she is lying or telling the truth. If she would only understand the pain I went through because all of this, I think I would have no doubts, but at the moment it is not the case. She is only accepting that she is guilty of having meetings in the car that certainly look bad when looked from outside, and that kiss was kind caused by the moment of silence and she immediately pulled back and it did not happen ever again… Probably bulls*it, I know, but still, let me try to believe that unless I am faced with the naked truth down the road. At least, she is shaken a lot, same as me, she went through the hell so I can hope it all made her understand that such things are not to play with, ever again.


----------



## Nucking Futs

AlbertG said:


> First of all, thanks everybody on all your advices. Many of them were helpful, some of them kind of opened my eyes. It is now around one month since I started the thread, and number of things happened since then. At the first moment, when I was reading through all replies here, I started to be very angry again and obsessed with the whole situation, and same day I had the worst fight ever with my wife, where we both were thinking that there is no option other than divorce. However, we decided to give a try to the counseling. Having in mind the reading of all the answers here made me feeling so sh*tty, I decided not to reply for a while until my head gets bit more clear.
> 
> So reading the advice from lots of people who have been in your shoes is what made you feel ****ty? Didn't have anything to do with your wife cheating on you, it was all us. Got it.
> 
> Basically I discovered the situation based on my intuition mostly, and after 5 months of fights, discussions, trying to read her mind and analyzing her responses and her behavior, my feeling is that she did not sleep with him, but they very likely had more than one pullback kiss. Reasons for me to think that are various, but mostly based on her reactions in number of situations. One of posters above asked about hysterical bonding, and yes, we had that after the d-day, for a month or two – basically having sex once or twice per day, and now it is bit less but still we are doing it much more than previous 2-3 years.
> 
> So you think she's still lying to you, and you're going to accept that because you value her more than she values you. Got it. But hey, you had hysterical bonding, a common sign of not cheating, right?
> 
> What she is claiming is that whole situation was a big misunderstanding and she acted without thinking. She said that she knew very well that he is having crush on her, and she was thinking that some flirting won’t do any harm, but actually can give her some advantages at work. She is admitting as her only mistake that she accepted these meetings in the car, and she did not tell me about the meetings as she knew I would be pissed off. On the other hand, she could not easily reject the meetings without impacting the relation she had with him, and on top of that he was giving her confidential information that were worth the risk according to her. She is claiming she was absolutely not in love with him, not even a slightest bit (but I feel she was in love with the excitement and feeling of secrecy and importance around the whole thing)
> 
> So what she did was just business, no emtion, so technically not cheating. Got it.
> 
> For all my proofs she has some explanations, for example for the underwear she said that it was in the bedroom in the bag on the floor for 3 days before she left for business trip and she was not hiding it at all from me (and I found indeed the receipt in the paper bag on the floor), and it had only sexy brand name but it is just average set and that she would choose something much nicer for the first date night with potential lover. For the sore lips she said they are due to very cold weather (it was below 0 C) and indeed I noticed again such sore lips on her couple weeks ago when we spent few hours outside walking in the winter. Again, I would be naïve to take it as granted and blindly trust, but still she has at least a bit reasonable explanations.
> 
> So someone you know without a shadow of a doubt has been lying to you has some explanations for the stuff that tipped you off. There you go, someone you caught lying to you would never make up a reasonable sounding excuse. Got it. Still got that receipt? Take the receipt to the store and ask the clerk to find you that product. If you don't recognize what the clerk shows you I bet the other man will.
> 
> Regarding her job, we made a deal that she would stay there for another 12 months max. She is expecting promotion that would allow her to search for the other job in the same level at other companies, and she is asking me to understand that and just give her some more time to lock the promotion, use few trainings that she is supposed to get and then go somewhere else to work. I do not think that I am in position to blackmail her now and ask to quit immediately, I think she is at the point where she would do that if I insist, but I know that would make her very unhappy and depressed so I guess I can live with this 12 months deal. And I made sure to understand I want to stick to this [email protected]
> 
> Really? Evidence points to an affair with her boss and now she's expecting a big promotion? Must be a coincidence. Oh, and she has to stay with him or she won't get the promotion and will have to do it all over again with her next boss. Yep, got it.
> 
> The counseling is big disappointment for me. We had 3 sessions until now with 70-years old lady recommended by her work psychologist (whom we both visited by the way). Basically after these sessions my wife and lady counselor painted such picture of myself that I absolutely could not agree with – that I was jealous, not allowing her to go out seeing friends and she stopped that due to my jealousy, that I was acting possessive, not devoting the time to the children, and similar. The last drop was when lady counselor said that I sound paranoid when I said that this picture of myself is not realistic, and it is actually the result of the affair fog my wife is going through where she is rewriting the history and justifying her behavior by blaming me. She said that according to her this was not an affair, but a misunderstanding, that my wife was naïve to accept the meetings in the car, but she can understand her motivation. I could understand as well, if I could only trust her, which I am of course struggling… Nevertheless I decided not to go to this counselor anymore as she was apparently on the side of my wife, they made me look crazy and I still have to pay for that sh*t. I do not know if male counselor would make any difference, but I am not planning to give it a try with anyone else at this point of time.
> 
> Hmm, so you go to marriage counseling and your wife villifies you to the counselor. Clearly the actions of an innocent wife, no cheater would ever think to re-write marital history. Sure, this is all you, all your fault. Got it.
> 
> Also, next day after the big fight I mentioned triggered by me reading the forum, she went to her work psychologist as she was in shock and could not stop crying. It was first time she had chance to tell the story to anyone else except me, and that lady managed to calm her down a bit. She proposed that I also come for a free consultation (paid by her company, so at least I got tiny bit of revenge!), and I had very nice and calm meeting with that lady. I explained her whole situation, what happened, how I feel, etc… She said that she fully understands me, that she had similar situation with her husband in the past and while I was talking to her, I felt she was again going through her own story. I could catch sparkling or tears in her eyes while I was talking. Her message to me was that affairs happen and it is part of the life, it could happen to me as well. She told me that she is sure after the conversation with my wife that she loves me and that she is very hurt with the whole situation, and that I need to release the grip little bit, otherwise I would push her away from me. She told me the story about man in dessert who takes sand in two hands, in one hand he presses the sand and in other he just hold it on his palm, and asked me in which hand I would have more sand? Anyway, after that session I felt quite well and relieved.
> 
> So your wife talks to her work shrink, who then tells you that affairs happen, it's part of life, and you need to "release the grip a little bit" or you would push her away. Yeah. Let her cheat without consequences or you'll lose her. Right. Got it. You know,
> a reasonable person might conclude from this that your wife admitted cheating to the shrink.
> 
> My decision at this point of time is to try to keep eyes open for any signs that something is still going on, use the technology for that but also try not to go completely nuts with being detective, and try to reconcile. In case I notice again any sign that actually she made fool of me and any sort of cheating is still going on, with this guy or with anyone else, I am clear in my head that I would not tolerate that and go for divorce, no matter what. So yes, maybe most of the people here would say I am chicken, but after many days and nights of the consideration, this sounds as the most logical option, as I can’t ever be sure if I am right or wrong here, if she is lying or telling the truth. If she would only understand the pain I went through because all of this, I think I would have no doubts, but at the moment it is not the case. She is only accepting that she is guilty of having meetings in the car that certainly look bad when looked from outside, and that kiss was kind caused by the moment of silence and she immediately pulled back and it did not happen ever again… Probably bulls*it, I know, but still, let me try to believe that unless I am faced with the naked truth down the road. At least, she is shaken a lot, same as me, she went through the hell so I can hope it all made her understand that such things are not to play with, ever again.


What we have here is an epic rug-sweep. You might have bought yourself a little time before she cheats again, but you've by no means affair proofed your marriage. 

Did she pass the polygraph? Or do you think your marriage would end if you required one?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

AlbertG, your wife has pulled the wool over your eyes. Reeled back from kisses, you actually believe that? 5 times in a parked car in a secluded place to 'talk'? LAUGH OUT LOUD. 

Cheater translator 101: When she claimed they only kissed in the car that translates to she performed oral sex, in the car, away from prying eyes. Maybe she 'reeled' back from him finishing in her mouth. maybe not. 

Good luck, you will need it. It is very hard to catch workplace affairs and now that you have told her your suspicions and evidence of what you noticed she is just so much more careful now.


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## Chaparral

You have picked the long hard road. Good luck.


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## Marc878

You're just living in denial because you don't want the truth. 

Most betrayed spouses upfront want to believe so they don't have to make the hard decisions.

Admitted kissing = sex


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## [email protected]

I can't believe you naven't filed for D. Denial, as they say, isn't a river in Egypt. Your WW's affair is plain to everyone here.


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## thedope

Albert,

I think you know the truth look within yourself. I realize accepting that you wife cheated is difficult. But you know she did. You are letting her cloud your judgement. Of course she is going to do everything to try to take the heat off of her. You know the truth, adults don't just kiss. You are not an idiot and your letting your wife manipulate you. Everyone here will tell you 100% more happened than she is admitting too. I'm not trying to be a jerk, really I feel bad for you. But no one can help you here but you. You need to make the decision to accept the truth. Do you really want to spend the rest of you life in denial? I don't think you do, it's a horrible life to live. We understand that you love her but you don't deserve this. No one is going to be able to handle this but you. Go look in the mirror.


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## Rick Blaine

Albert,
When you married your wife did you expect her to love you, respect you, care for you, and be faithful to you?

After starting her affair has she been any of things to you? No. But maybe she's pretended enough to string you along and satisfy your denial.

And now that you are going along with the charade how much respect do you think she has for you? Women love men who are strong and decisive. They cannot love and admire men who operate out of fear and who don't set boundaries.

Your fear of losing your wife has caused you to lose her even more.


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## Tatsuhiko

Who needs sexy underwear if you're just planning on kissing someone and pulling away? I can kiss my wife in my old white holey underwear. No, she wanted him to see everything and for him to be impressed with what he saw.

Your wife is getting away with a big lie. At the very least, you should let her know that you don't believe her story, and that you believe she had full sex with the boss. If you don't accept this truth now and get closure, this will eat away at you for many years to come. The best solution to this is for her to be entirely honest with you and to bring all of this out into the open now. All you're doing is creating a continuing long-term nightmare for yourself by not facing this now. 

Your counselor told you "affairs are a part of life"? Yes, that true. So are post-affair divorces. In fact, they are quite common.


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## OutofRetirement

What was the explanation about the difference in hotel of 00.30 vs. 11.00, going to be at 1:00 vs. whatsapp message at 2:00?

The lingerie you thought was secret, did you realize it was actually kept at home?

Perhaps the most concerning statement you had made was when she compared you very badly against her boss. How terrible were your characteristics and values compared to him. Added to ILYBNILWY. And her willing to kiss him (at the very least).

I also believe you mention your wife's "affair fog" in the same post basically saying you must believe your wife's story that there was no emotional affair.

I think we all need to understand our lives. I think most of us can tell or write a narrative of our lives, the events of our lives and how it ended where we are now. So in your narrative, as best I can tell how you post it, is that your wife had a secret relationship with another man, her boss, and you're not quite sure of the extent of it. That your wife claims one thing, that you don't quite believe what your wife asserts, but you are intuiting or feeling that it is worse than your wife admits, but not too bad that you can't accept it.

Also, there are a few major omissions in the story that I would think you would ask about. The main thing glaring to me is what happened between other man and your wife on the 3-day abroad story, which you have not posted how you reconciled the time difference. The main thing, though, is what did the other man say and try to do to your wife on that trip? Given that he asked to meet her privately in his car once a week where he tried to kiss her, and she accepted his kiss (at least), and the claim that this was done due to needing "privacy" about secrets, then wouldn't your wife's hotel room and the boss's hotel room likewise be "privacy" and a place to meet privately to talk. And if that were to happen, then wouldn't the other man try to push further with your wife. 

Did you ask your wife what happened with other man at the hotel?


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## OutofRetirement

Also, I am concerned about your wife's willingness to trade on her boss's sexual desire for professional advancement. She seems to think this is OK. Private meetings with boss, secret even of her husband-OK. Flirting-OK. Kiss-OK. Sex-?.

I guess we all are allowed our own boundaries. I see nothing wrong with looking good, fit, well-dressed, attractive, to which there may or may not be a "sexual desire" aspect of it, however, to me it seems a different level of speaking sexually and accepting advances, kissing or more, to obtain advancement.

How does your wife feel about that?


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## OutofRetirement

> I noticed she is starting to take care more about her physical appearance - she was always beautiful and well dressed, but at that period that all went a step up which I had to notice.


I'm curious also if your wife admits she dressed sexier during that period.

There's just a lot of facts that just don't seem to add up.

My observation, it's tough to reconcile when things don't add up. I think getting all of the major pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, and the picture making sense, is the first step. Then you can understand what happened and why, and accept it. Or not.


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## OutofRetirement

> I noticed she is starting to take care more about her physical appearance - she was always beautiful and well dressed, but at that period that all went a step up which I had to notice.


I'm curious also if your wife admits she dressed sexier during that period.

There's just a lot of facts that just don't seem to add up.

My observation, it's tough to reconcile when things don't add up. I think getting all of the major pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, and the picture making sense, is the first step. Then you can understand what happened and why, and accept it. Or not.


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## Sports Fan

Some people just have to learn the hard way!


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## EleGirl

AlbertG said:


> I do not want to divorce... and neither is she
> But also I do not want to move my depression to her if she ends up jobless for a long time


The fact is that no one here knows what your wife did or did not do. All anyone on this forum can tell you is their impression based on what you have posted. So keep that in mind.

If you do not want a divorce, then there are things that you and your wife can do to save your marriage. Most marriages recover from infidelity. So it's worth a shot at it.

My suggestion is that you read the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It will give you a pretty good plan on how to handle her ending the affair and going forward.

After that, read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". The idea is for both you and your wife to read the books in the order listed and to the work they say to do, together. The books will help you restructure your marriage so make it as affair proof as possible. 

I hope that you and your wife and rebuild your marriage.


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## RandomDude

Ergh... disgusting!

And this is why cheaters prosper, too many are so weak that they can't handle the reality of the situation, so they believe what they want to believe. Ignorance is bliss.

Your wife has no boundaries, no remorse, it's not possible to reconcile back into a healthy marriage. Whatever you try to build now will be like a house with cracks all over the foundation.

Spare yourself years of further turmoil, cut your losses and start over. Your wife is not marriage material.


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## [email protected]

RandomDude has it right. Sorry to say, you marriage is toast. Your W is deadwood. Get rid of her.


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## manfromlamancha

AlbertG, I am amazed by your responses so far. I don't now which part of Europe you are from and am curious (I have an idea though).

First of all, in my opinion, this is not about her boss (the POSOM)! It is more about her and more importantly, YOU!

Her views and ideas are about as wrong as wrong can be when it comes to marriage, fidelity, boundaries and morality. She thinks its OK to do a bit of flirting, then maybe a bit of kissing, then maybe some more kissing with more tongue, then maybe a bit of fingering and petting, then maybe some ****ing, then maybe some more kinky stuff ...... where does this end. God knows what she would be prepared to do if someone told her they could make her President of your country!?!?!? Her morality is completely ****3d!

Next you were pretty naive to confront her with what you had and expect her to come clean with you. Time and time again. And she has not shown an ounce of real remorse. She completely blamed you and made you sound jealous and paranoid. She looked to her company psychologist for support and validation in her behaviour and she got it!!! That psychologist should be fired and the company should be sued for what they have enabled here! Completely twisted behaviour from her. 

She has basically made it clear to you (and you accept this) that her career comes first and she enjoys getting to the top the way she has. She will **** her way to the top and expect you to give her leeway and time to do this - 12 months is her current period to the next move and then want. Another 18 months of ****ing a different set of bosses to get her next payrise, promotion, move to another job - what ?

And then there is you. You are allowing all this to happen by even entertaining these proposals from her and her explanations. Responses like "but I have two small children" and "her earnings are good" makes you look and sound pathetic. Every now and then you rage against the storm but then are beaten back into submission due to some kind of fear of dumping her!

Does she earn more than you? Can you not take care of your children without her income ? She is creating a very flaky and unhealthy basis for your marriage - what do you think she is going to be like years down the road - remember she is 10 years younger than you and has a lot more time to continue being this way. 

What explanation did she give you about the lingerie by the way ?

AlbertG, you have been told all of this by just about everyone on this forum - because they have seen this many times before. This is not a unique situation and there is only one way out of this. You need to recover your self esteem and step up and do what is tough but necessary.

First, she leaves her job NOW - and with no promise of reconciliation from you and the very real possibility that you will divorce her anyway. She should do it because she is truly sorry for hurting you and wants to recover this marriage and this is the first small step she can take. 

Second, you file for divorce anyway and consult a lawyer to know your rights etc. and protect your finances. Battle down the hatches in terms of custody and the fight that might be coming.

At the moment you should believe nothing of what she says. You need to get to the whole truth immediately. It is very apparent that she has been sleeping with the boss and you seem to be focussed on blaming the boss! It is OK to mess up his world, and you should - tell his wife, and then go after HR - just for retribution but also compensation for alienation of affection. Double that up with the very destructive and dubious advice the company psychologist has given your wife which at the very least will destroy your marriage and will justify your wife's behaviour. Have her take a polygraph if possible where you live (I don't know what part of Europe you are from although I have a suspicion).

Get yourself checked for STD's and if you really want to make an impact on her, DNA test your kids. Expose this affair - bring it out into the open. Especially her family and your family.

Now, as to whether you are going to do any of this is improbable based on your previous posts. But if you want people (including your children when they grow up and find out what happened) to respect you and more importantly, you respect yourself, you will grow a pair and do what needs to be done! Else you will be a b!tch that is owned by her!


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## AlbertG

Thanks all for your advises. I have yesterday expose everything to her family (brother and mother) and as expected, they are shocked and on my side (at least her brother). He personally begged me to forgive her and think about the children, do not destroy the home, etc... Poor guy, he was really touched. We had huge fight then, as expected, and at the moment not talking to each other. I know very well that she is lying, but I am just curious on the degree of lying. As I said, my intuition is telling me that they did not **** (YET), but it would happen if I did not timely discover. I suspect that due to her health condition at that moment, that I would not reveal here in public. I could forgive everything, if just I know it is the truth, but I guess I would never know it for sure. Especially because I was not angel myself, I did some cheating as well while we were dating and had parallel relationship. But since we are living together, i did not even look at other women. That is one of the reasons why I would be able to forgive... All your words are resonating in my head, and I know that it might be difficult to accept the reality, but ad the end I will have to, I know

Tomorrow I will start with personal therapies, let's see what that would bring. 

I will keep posting periodically here...


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## AlbertG

EleGirl said:


> The fact is that no one here knows what your wife did or did not do. All anyone on this forum can tell you is their impression based on what you have posted. So keep that in mind.
> 
> If you do not want a divorce, then there are things that you and your wife can do to save your marriage. Most marriages recover from infidelity. So it's worth a shot at it.
> 
> My suggestion is that you read the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It will give you a pretty good plan on how to handle her ending the affair and going forward.
> 
> After that, read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". The idea is for both you and your wife to read the books in the order listed and to the work they say to do, together. The books will help you restructure your marriage so make it as affair proof as possible.
> 
> I hope that you and your wife and rebuild your marriage.


I already checked all of these books, and i know the life cycle of affairs and all of that. I can't make any decision based on the replies here on the forum, as at the end of the day it is my life, I know her for 10+ years, and we had many good moments together, and as I said, I was not angel myself. Anyone can make mistake, and it is in human nature to forgive. But, I need to ensure this would not happen again and at the same time prevent huge financial loses that would come with divorce and also think about children, so I will give it a try and save what can be saved. If things do not get fixed, the divorce option is always there.


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## Suspicious1

Okay, has she mentioned these pass mistakes of yours recently in these fights?

You guys remained together and it appears that she forgave you, no?
What matters now is the present, she had her chance to either get even or leave. So she waits to have children to get even? 

That does not make any sense to me at all, well I understand some past dalliance can fester up but don't use them as an excuse today! Very cowardly way to handle things, at the PRESENT.

You would think you both have grown and have much more respect for one anorher. 


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## AlbertG

Nope, my past mistakes were secret. And i was stupid enough to tell her once her affair escalated. So now she has the ammunition to fight back


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## GusPolinski

AlbertG said:


> Nope, my past *mistakes*were secret. And i was stupid enough to tell her once her affair escalated. So now she has the ammunition to fight back


You’re not owning your bull**** for as long as you’re referring to it as a “mistake”.

Cheating is _never_ a “mistake”. (It does, however, reveal character.)

If you’re stupid for anything, it’s for not telling her back then.

Oh, and for believing her lies.


----------



## manwithnoname

AlbertG said:


> Thanks all for your advises. I have yesterday expose everything to her family (brother and mother) and as expected, they are shocked and on my side (at least her brother). He personally begged me to forgive her and think about the children, do not destroy the home, etc... Poor guy, he was really touched. We had huge fight then, as expected, and at the moment not talking to each other. I know very well that she is lying, but I am just curious on the degree of lying. As I said, *my intuition is telling me that they did not **** *(YET), but it would happen if I did not timely discover. I suspect that due to her health condition at that moment, that I would not reveal here in public. I could forgive everything, if just I know it is the truth, but I guess I would never know it for sure. Especially because I was not angel myself, I did some cheating as well while we were dating and had parallel relationship. But since we are living together, i did not even look at other women. That is one of the reasons why I would be able to forgive... All your words are resonating in my head, and I know that it might be difficult to accept the reality, but ad the end I will have to, I know
> 
> Tomorrow I will start with personal therapies, let's see what that would bring.
> 
> I will keep posting periodically here...



The boss sits at the table. 

Sometimes, whether they get a pay stub or not, the employee works under the table, performing odd jobs.


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## thedope

Albert's response means this will continue to be a disfunctional relationship that will most likely end in divorce.


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## drifting on

Albert

My wife also had a workplace affair, although I don’t know you or your wife I do know this, she is lying. It was much more then a kiss, even you know this because she said she would have met OM anyway because the information was that good. OM has already been slapped with a sexual harassment charge, what do you think he charged your wife for this information? And it wasn’t the information wasn’t as great as the sex she got from OM. Your wife is lying her tail off and is now angry as you exposed to her family. Why, because she hasn’t been able to tell them her lies like she did the therapist. 

You see, many of us here can see what you can’t, and it’s not your fault. If your wife were truly remorseful she would now quit her job and never speak to OM again. But no, she’s protecting him more then she is you. Tell OM’s wife and find out how mad she gets, because you attacked the one she loves. You met with OM and he denies they kissed, why would your wife lie? What was his answer to that? Call your wife’s HR department and tell them You think your wife is being sexually harassed. Watch how mad your wife gets now. 

You aren’t going to make a year with her working with him. I know, I have that t-shirt. And if they have to travel again? Yeah, you’ll get through that easy as pie. No Albert, you need to put boundaries in place, you need to expose, and then you need to tell her to find a new job and that she has one month to find it. Employment must also be with the same salary, a consequence to “kissing” her boss. Also, if she doesn’t change in a later of days, file for divorce and watch how fast she changes. In order to save the marriage you must be prepared to lose the marriage. Best of luck.


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## drifting on

Oh, polygraph your wife and dna your kids.


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## SentHereForAReason

AlbertG said:


> I already checked all of these books, and i know the life cycle of affairs and all of that. *I can't make any decision based on the replies here on the forum, as at the end of the day it is my life, I know her for 10+ years, and we had many good moments together, and as I said, I was not angel myself*. Anyone can make mistake, and it is in human nature to forgive. But, I need to ensure this would not happen again and at the same time prevent huge financial loses that would come with divorce and also think about children, so I will give it a try and save what can be saved. If things do not get fixed, the divorce option is always there.


What I have learned is that in almost every situation in life, you really do need to make your own decisions based on gut instinct, logic, rational and history. Unfortunately, this is NOT even close to every situation, this is a situation where emotion on the other end take over logic and rational and on our side, the betrayed spouse, emotion and fear take over for courage and doing what is right. We think doing what is right is what you are doing and what I did for 7 months. Problem is, while it may be noble in some ways, it's actually the easy route and the quickest route to losing the last amount of respect the spouse may have had for you.

In these situations our instincts are broke quite frankly. And even though the veterans on here don't know us, it's incredible how they can predict what's going to happen and what your spouse has been doing and saying without even hearing it themselves. I went through all of this myself and am in the later stages of it, and the early stages of divorce. I was able to help my cousin a bit as he was 3-4 months behind my process and he said all of the same things I used to say, that you are saying and i was able to predict what she would do next and how it was going to go down. 

That's because, for whatever reason, most of the cheaters follow the same script, like it's a disease. No one is going to stone you over trying again and if you feel that's what is necessary go ahead but prepare yourself for the worst and start protecting yourself for the path that you are heading down. It sucks, it sucks so bad but it's the sad truth unfortunately.


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## AlbertG

So the latest development is that she started looking for new job. It is clear that 12 months deal is not going to work.
We can't afford her just quitting as we have serious mortgage on our back, but I hope that in month or so she will be out of there. 

Thanks a lot folks for opening my eyes, and thanks for the person advising that i need to grow cojones, it seems to be very true and it was the most important missing part


----------



## drifting on

AlbertG said:


> So the latest development is that she started looking for new job. It is clear that 12 months deal is not going to work.
> We can't afford her just quitting as we have serious mortgage on our back, but I hope that in month or so she will be out of there.
> 
> Thanks a lot folks for opening my eyes, and thanks for the person advising that i need to grow cojones, it seems to be very true and it was the most important missing part




If she doesn’t have at least two interviews in less then a month she’s just pacifying you. Stand your ground firmly, and I do suggest a time limit of three months or she quits. Save as much as you can in the meantime, this means she buys nothing for herself until she has a new job. 

I advise to wait a minimum of six months before you choose divorce or reconciliation. In fact you can’t reconcile each day she goes to work as she will see the OM. Let your wife know divorce is firmly seated on the table as well as reconciliation. Tell her that her actions from here on is how you will decide. Contact OM’s wife as well, let her keep an eye on OM. Trust me, it will be the best private eye you never hired. Additionally this will keep OM busy on his own home front.


----------



## AlbertG

What I am starting to realize is that the issues that I am experiencing are most likely linked to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, that was triggered by d-day events.
I am starting to doubt that her being forced to unwillingly change the job will help on itself

Any advice?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Any advice? Really?


----------



## OutofRetirement

It is Valentine's Day in US. Does your country observe it?


----------



## MattMatt

The boss should be made to change his job.


----------



## Walloped

Just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re going through this.


----------



## AlbertG

Dear all,

First of I would like to thank everybody for the support you have given to me. I was initially in the state of denial and my responses to your advises if I read them again look so desperate, weak and beta-male. Here is the update what happened since the last post I made several months ago.

- She agreed to start looking for new job, sticking to the story of one pull away kiss. 
- She sent number of application letters, but without single interview invitation
- I was still suspicious as I was picking some signals, although she tried to convince me that it is again my paranoia and she is fully dedicated to find new job (in order to help me and do me a favor, so i can calm down – according to her it was not necessary thing to do)
- Last week, she announced going out with her girlfriends (divorced single mum and other friend who started dating her husband while he was still married – real dream team) and I knew that she is confiding to them. I placed VAR in the car and I learned that she had one sexual encounter with her boss back in October (after my first confrontation), and then they stopped doing that. However he was still trying to lay her again but she never agreed. I heard her saying that by staying at that job she has two issues – problems that she has with me, and also she has to fight the temptation to f*ck him again and she does not know how long she can resist. Also heard her saying that whole relation with lovers in general are very superficial, and she knows that now when she experienced it herself, and that family is really most important thing. I heard her saying she never had any other lover and this was her first and only time. I heard also some insulting things said by her friend, she told my wife that I was good enough for her when she was young but now she has overgrown me, that if we separate and she start full relation with her boss (if he leave his wife) she can expect at some point to feel exactly the same with him like she is feeling with me now, once initial excitement is gone. I heard my wife saying he invited her for lunch just day before and said to her it is the first anniversary of their first business trip together. The friend asked her if she had sex with him back them and she said no because she had her period, otherwise it is very likely she would… 
- Next morning I have confronted her, after listening to the recording. I told her I hired PI and I got undeniable proofs that she ****ed her boss. On direct question if they had sex, she finally answered positive. I started asking for the details, and what she told me more or less matches to what I got captured by VAR.

I feel so relieved now (as I am not crazy at the end) and now I have to decide what to do next. I see 3 options: divorce, reconcile and as third option to divorce but stay living together to raise the kids (3 and 5 years old). In order to reconcile, if I decide so, I have put following conditions in front of her:

-	Quit that job today (she agrees)
-	Open all communication methods (email, facebook, etc) and give me access to her mobile phone. She is refusing giving access to current iphone right now saying that she would feel terrible if I read her trash chats on WhatsApp with her toxic friends, but she agrees to get new phone once she returns iphone to the company and give full me access to the new device.
-	She will never ever contact him and report him trying to contact her (she is ok with that and also suggested to change phone number)
-	She has to stop all contact with toxic friends and stop going out with them or even talking/chatting (ok)
-	Answer all questions I have about relation with the boss (she is ok, except saying where they had sex, again justifying it with the shame)
She is on sick leave for next 2 weeks and then going another 2 weeks on vacation so there is some time to decide what to do (I told her every day going to that office is reducing chance to reconcile for 50% and she stopped immediately). If we divorce, I want her to keep that job as she will never again find similar conditions and I do not want to support her more than I legally have to (boss was very generous with giving pay rises to his **** buddy).

I am not sure what is the best thing to do in this situation… Divorce will have significant impact on the kids and financial burden, but I am also not sure how can I ever forgive this kind of betrayal. Actually that one time sex, if the story is true and all proofs right now point to that, does not bother me so much as all the lies and deception in this whole situation, and the lack of compassion from her side when I was in really big crisis and suffering from PSTD (which is finally gone, hopefully forever). Also, she was not really thinking about the kids, family, house investment we made together – instead she justified in her head all of this by thinking I was not helping her enough with the kids and was bad husband in general (which is absolutely not true), that I gained weight and was not taking care of myself (which is true) and that things just happened and slipped out of control. Actually I am not sure how much and if she loves me at all right now, but I know she was crazy about me during our dating years and early on living together. I still have feelings toward her, although she probably does not deserve them.

Last year since all this started to happen I started lifting weights, and I look better than ever, even when she met me for the first time, with 20 kg less and some nice muscles and no belly at all… If I continue like this at some point I can even have 6 pack, so returning to the meat market should not really be an issue, but I am not sure if I really have desire to do that.

Finally, in one of previous post I said I was not angel myself so let me explain what I actually did. When we just started dating, she was 20, I was 30, I was not really planning long term commitment with her and basically I had one more friend with benefits during our first year of dating, and I was dating few other girls which I never managed to get laid. From our second year of dating I was sexually exclusive with her, and we engaged and started living together 2 years later (she was 23 and I was 33). Few years later we married and I was fully faithful and dedicated husband all this time, and cheating was never on my agenda as an option.


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## Andy1001

Your wife has never admitted anything that you couldn’t prove. 
Think about this.


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## badmemory

AlbertG said:


> *She is refusing giving access to current iphone right now saying that she would feel terrible if I read her trash chats on WhatsApp with her toxic friends*, but she agrees to get new phone once she returns iphone to the company and give full me access to the new device.


Negative. She doesn't get the right to negotiate her consequences. Before you even decide to R, she has to give you access to all the texts if she wants you to "consider" giving her a second chance. End of story.


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## farsidejunky

She has outgrown you...yeah, right.

You heard her truth. Why would you want to remain with someone who thinks so little of you?

This will happen again because she feels she is better than you.




Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

badmemory said:


> Negative. She doesn't get the right to negotiate her consequences. Before you even decide to R, she has to give you access to all the texts if she wants you to "consider" giving her a second chance. End of story.


This. You are doing nothing different than before.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Thor

Option 1 Divorce: This is statistically by far the highest probability of you being happy and for the kids to grow up with happy parents modeling a healthy relationship.

Option 2 Reconciliation: By far the most difficult path. The trap is if you get into False R, where you think she is on board but she really isn't. Then in the future she has another affair, or she decides to divorce you. Remember that she has equal choice to divorce you at some point! Unless you see true remorse from her about the bad actions and bad choices then you are in False R. She may be very sorry, but usually it is sorry for getting caught and sorry for how it is making her life difficult. But not sorry for hurting you and for being a stupid lying low life cheater. There is a big difference and you have not yet described anything that looks like true remorse.

Option 3 D but live together: This sounds like the absolute worst option for your kids.


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## AlbertG

farsidejunky said:


> She has outgrown you...yeah, right.
> 
> You heard her truth. Why would you want to remain with someone who thinks so little of you?
> 
> This will happen again because she feels she is better than you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Just quick reply here... it was her friend saying this, not my wife


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## Thor

Think about why she doesn't want you to see what is on her phone. Is it really that SHE will feel terrible? If that is true then she is selfish and uncaring of you. But what is probably the truth is she knows there's stuff on there which will cause you to decide to D. Which is also selfish because she is protecting herself, not you.

I think you are misreading her intentions here and putting a positive spin that she is somehow being nice to you by not giving you access to her phone. Well, it's too late now because she has wiped it clean of anything incriminating, but there was stuff on there she knew would bring consequences to her, and she didn't want the consequences.

You're letting her drive this ship right now, which is wrong. Not only are you being taken for a ride, you are losing the opportunity for her to hit rock bottom and capitulate. She is resisting you right now. That is not that path to R, that is the path to rug sweeping, which is the path to the heartbreak of future affairs. She has to utterly give up any idea that what she wants matters. She may desperately want to keep the marriage and family together, but she has to realize that only your desire is what matters. Picture it like the alcoholic. They will lie, cheat, and steal to keep their ability to drink. They'll hide it. They'll lie to your face. Only when they hit rock bottom do they have that change where they give up all resistance. This is where your cheating wife needs to get to before R is a possibility.

Her refusing the phone looks like resistance and self-protection. She is still on the cheater's script.


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## Openminded

She had many chances to tell you out the truth but she didn't until she was caught. You'll never be able to trust her again. If that isn't the kind of marriage you want then you need to move on.


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## Kamstel

My advice is to file and have her served. This will let her know you are serious about everything and keep the pressure on her.

You can stop the divorce process at any time!


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## Kamstel

Have you contacted HR yet?

If not, DO IT TODAY!!!

THey are not going to like Her supervisor sleeping with her!


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## Kamstel

Better yet, go in to HR and have HER report it!


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## TRy

AlbertG said:


> She is refusing giving access to current iphone right now saying that she would feel terrible if I read her trash chats on WhatsApp with her toxic friends, but she agrees to get new phone once she returns iphone to the company and give full me access to the new device.


She does not want to give you access to her current phone because she does not want you to see her communications with her lover, and because there is more to the story than she has admit to her friends.


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## Thor

TRy said:


> there is more to the story than she has admit to her friends.


This! There is no reason to believe she was telling her friend the whole truth either.


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## Tatsuhiko

Her attitude is all wrong. Dump her and find a better woman. If she really feels she's outgrown you, why would that ever change? She should be begging for forgiveness, not setting conditions under which she'll take you back.

For the record, the boss will never leave his wife unless the wife leaves him first. Once his wife knows, it's likely the affair will end immediately. Time for your wife to see what abandonment feels like.


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## dreamer2017

Dear Albert,

You’ve done a wonderful job in exposing your wife. I do agree with “badmemory”; your wife has given up the right to compromise. I would DEMAND all passwords to all of her communication devices NOW!!!. You should also contact HR and expose the OM. Also, expose him to his wife (if he has one). Contact your attorney for advice to discuss possible directions. I would also contact her family to let them know what has happened to prepare them if you decide to move toward divorce. You are on the right track. Keep it moving!!!

Best,
Dreamer


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## AlbertG

Thor said:


> Think about why she doesn't want you to see what is on her phone. Is it really that SHE will feel terrible? If that is true then she is selfish and uncaring of you. But what is probably the truth is she knows there's stuff on there which will cause you to decide to D. Which is also selfish because she is protecting herself, not you.
> 
> I think you are misreading her intentions here and putting a positive spin that she is somehow being nice to you by not giving you access to her phone. Well, it's too late now because she has wiped it clean of anything incriminating, but there was stuff on there she knew would bring consequences to her, and she didn't want the consequences.
> 
> You're letting her drive this ship right now, which is wrong. Not only are you being taken for a ride, you are losing the opportunity for her to hit rock bottom and capitulate. She is resisting you right now. That is not that path to R, that is the path to rug sweeping, which is the path to the heartbreak of future affairs. She has to utterly give up any idea that what she wants matters. She may desperately want to keep the marriage and family together, but she has to realize that only your desire is what matters. Picture it like the alcoholic. They will lie, cheat, and steal to keep their ability to drink. They'll hide it. They'll lie to your face. Only when they hit rock bottom do they have that change where they give up all resistance. This is where your cheating wife needs to get to before R is a possibility.
> 
> Her refusing the phone looks like resistance and self-protection. She is still on the cheater's script.


Actually this sounds very reasonable. I will keep insisting to get access to the phone and i am pretty sure i should be able to recover deleted messages. If I notice that she has deleted anything incriminating and pointing she has hiddien significant details, then I guess I will have my answer.
I am pretty sure she has no communication with that guy on the phone as he is real fox and knows he should not leave obvious traces like that...


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## AlbertG

dreamer2017 said:


> Dear Albert,
> 
> You’ve done a wonderful job in exposing your wife. I do agree with “badmemory”; your wife has given up the right to compromise. I would DEMAND all passwords to all of her communication devices NOW!!!. You should also contact HR and expose the OM. Also, expose him to his wife (if he has one). Contact your attorney for advice to discuss possible directions. I would also contact her family to let them know what has happened to prepare them if you decide to move toward divorce. You are on the right track. Keep it moving!!!
> 
> Best,
> Dreamer


I will not expose to HR until I am sure about the direction. If we divorce, I need her to keep that job. Her job market value is quite low unfortunately and she would have serious issues finding another job. If we reconcile I will have to support her until she finds another job, but i for sure do not want to support her more than it is legally necessary if we divorce

If we go for reconciliation, I will decide if I want to revenge to that POS or just leave it to God to handle it his way. I have strong desire for revenge towards him, but I have to control it at least for the time being


----------



## SentHereForAReason

AlbertG said:


> Actually this sounds very reasonable. I will keep insisting to get access to the phone and i am pretty sure i should be able to recover deleted messages. If I notice that she has deleted anything incriminating and pointing she has hiddien significant details, then I guess I will have my answer.
> I am pretty sure she has no communication with that guy on the phone as he is real fox and knows he should not leave obvious traces like that...


On any phone you know of. Learned about how many different channels and avenues someone will explore when trying to stay underground. Burner phones, secret apps, different computers, calling using the number sequence so it shows up as restricted on each other's phones, etc, etc. My church going, image is important and double life Ex-Wife was not a technology maven but damn she sure learned a Hell of a lot about security and tech when she kept having to find new ways to communicate with her Married Lover. Including having a go-between friend to pass messages.


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## farsidejunky

AlbertG said:


> Actually this sounds very reasonable. I will keep insisting to get access to the phone and i am pretty sure i should be able to recover deleted messages. If I notice that she has deleted anything incriminating and pointing she has hiddien significant details, then I guess I will have my answer.
> I am pretty sure she has no communication with that guy on the phone as he is real fox and knows he should not leave obvious traces like that...


So...

AlbertG: Please give me access.

AG2: No.

AlbertG: Please give me access.

Immediate compliance or you start divorce proceedings. 

Don't you get it?

Anything less than full acquiescence to your reasonable demands means she is choosing to not remain married. You are enabling her to do this.

Nothing has changed, to include your perception of yourself and your position.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## syhoybenden

This a lost cause. You can never trust her again. 

Look here, in her own words ... " and also she has to fight the temptation to f*ck him again and she does not know how long she can resist."

You know this means she does not really give a crap about you, right?

Do not get pulled in by the sunk-cost-fallacy.

Get out while the gettings good.


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## Dyokemm

Albert,

Sorry to read your update.....

But not surprised.....Nearly every poster here told you she was having sex with this POS.

You decided to ignore that and believe your WW....

You should now know that the advice the posters here is for your best interest, and that continuing to ignore it will be at your own peril.

From the start, you were told to expose this POS to his BW.....

Why haven’t you done this?

I would expect that you will soon discover you have a highly minimized version of the A......it has probably never stopped and they have been having sex the whole time.

They might have slowed down when you confronted him....I’m sure the panic you saw in him that day was real, because you could have destroyed him with exposure, both professionally and in his M.

But you did not expose as you were advised to do from the start.....

And once his fear subsided when he realized you were not going to expose, and with your WW probably reassuring him that she had you convinced it was really nothing and was over.....well, at that point he started the A back up with your WW.

If you want to get yourself out of infidelity, you had best start actually following the advice the veteran posters here are giving you.

EXPOSE the d*mn affair already, at LEAST to his BW.

And you should go to HR immediately too.....he is the work superior with a prior complaint for being sexually inappropriate with a subordinate.....He will most likely be fired immediately.

Your WW will most likely NOT be fired.....as the subordinate, the company will know that she could claim she felt pressured into the A since he was her boss.....

No company will want to face that lawsuit.....so she will almost certainly keep her job.

But POSOM will be GONE....and will be so busy with his career ending, and possibly facing D from his BW, that he will be focused on almost anything but trying to continue the A with your WW.


This should have already happened....immediately after you discovered the A.

Your inaction has allowed it to continue until this second DDay.


I hope you do not repeat this mistake.....EXPOSE


----------



## GusPolinski

AlbertG said:


> Dear all,
> 
> First of I would like to thank everybody for the support you have given to me. I was initially in the state of denial and my responses to your advises if I read them again look so desperate, weak and beta-male. Here is the update what happened since the last post I made several months ago.
> 
> - She agreed to start looking for new job, sticking to the story of one pull away kiss.
> - She sent number of application letters, but without single interview invitation
> - I was still suspicious as I was picking some signals, although she tried to convince me that it is again my paranoia and she is fully dedicated to find new job (in order to help me and do me a favor, so i can calm down – according to her it was not necessary thing to do)
> - Last week, she announced going out with her girlfriends (divorced single mum and other friend who started dating her husband while he was still married – real dream team) and I knew that she is confiding to them. I placed VAR in the car and I learned that she had one sexual encounter with her boss back in October (after my first confrontation), and then they stopped doing that. However he was still trying to lay her again but she never agreed. I heard her saying that by staying at that job she has two issues – problems that she has with me, and also she has to fight the temptation to f*ck him again and she does not know how long she can resist. Also heard her saying that whole relation with lovers in general are very superficial, and she knows that now when she experienced it herself, and that family is really most important thing. I heard her saying she never had any other lover and this was her first and only time. I heard also some insulting things said by her friend, she told my wife that I was good enough for her when she was young but now she has overgrown me, that if we separate and she start full relation with her boss (if he leave his wife) she can expect at some point to feel exactly the same with him like she is feeling with me now, once initial excitement is gone. I heard my wife saying he invited her for lunch just day before and said to her it is the first anniversary of their first business trip together. The friend asked her if she had sex with him back them and she said no because she had her period, otherwise it is very likely she would…
> - Next morning I have confronted her, after listening to the recording. I told her I hired PI and I got undeniable proofs that she ****ed her boss. On direct question if they had sex, she finally answered positive. I started asking for the details, and what she told me more or less matches to what I got captured by VAR.
> 
> I feel so relieved now (as I am not crazy at the end) and now I have to decide what to do next. I see 3 options: divorce, reconcile and as third option to divorce but stay living together to raise the kids (3 and 5 years old). In order to reconcile, if I decide so, I have put following conditions in front of her:
> 
> -	Quit that job today (she agrees)
> -	Open all communication methods (email, facebook, etc) and give me access to her mobile phone. She is refusing giving access to current iphone right now saying that she would feel terrible if I read her trash chats on WhatsApp with her toxic friends, but she agrees to get new phone once she returns iphone to the company and give full me access to the new device.
> -	She will never ever contact him and report him trying to contact her (she is ok with that and also suggested to change phone number)
> -	She has to stop all contact with toxic friends and stop going out with them or even talking/chatting (ok)
> -	Answer all questions I have about relation with the boss (she is ok, except saying where they had sex, again justifying it with the shame)
> She is on sick leave for next 2 weeks and then going another 2 weeks on vacation so there is some time to decide what to do (I told her every day going to that office is reducing chance to reconcile for 50% and she stopped immediately). If we divorce, I want her to keep that job as she will never again find similar conditions and I do not want to support her more than I legally have to (boss was very generous with giving pay rises to his **** buddy).
> 
> I am not sure what is the best thing to do in this situation… Divorce will have significant impact on the kids and financial burden, but I am also not sure how can I ever forgive this kind of betrayal. Actually that one time sex, if the story is true and all proofs right now point to that, does not bother me so much as all the lies and deception in this whole situation, and the lack of compassion from her side when I was in really big crisis and suffering from PSTD (which is finally gone, hopefully forever). Also, she was not really thinking about the kids, family, house investment we made together – instead she justified in her head all of this by thinking I was not helping her enough with the kids and was bad husband in general (which is absolutely not true), that I gained weight and was not taking care of myself (which is true) and that things just happened and slipped out of control. Actually I am not sure how much and if she loves me at all right now, but I know she was crazy about me during our dating years and early on living together. I still have feelings toward her, although she probably does not deserve them.
> 
> Last year since all this started to happen I started lifting weights, and I look better than ever, even when she met me for the first time, with 20 kg less and some nice muscles and no belly at all… If I continue like this at some point I can even have 6 pack, so returning to the meat market should not really be an issue, but I am not sure if I really have desire to do that.
> 
> Finally, in one of previous post I said I was not angel myself so let me explain what I actually did. When we just started dating, she was 20, I was 30, I was not really planning long term commitment with her and basically I had one more friend with benefits during our first year of dating, and I was dating few other girls which I never managed to get laid. From our second year of dating I was sexually exclusive with her, and we engaged and started living together 2 years later (she was 23 and I was 33). Few years later we married and I was fully faithful and dedicated husband all this time, and cheating was never on my agenda as an option.


Nope.

You get the phone — TODAY — with all emails, texts, pics, and apps intact OR... you file for divorce.

Don’t half-ass this.

For all you know, there’s evidence of another affair — if not other _affairs_ — on that phone.

YOU set the terms, not her. So balls up and do it right.


----------



## manwithnoname

GusPolinski said:


> Nope.
> 
> You get the phone — TODAY — with all emails, texts, pics, and apps intact OR... you file for divorce.
> 
> Don’t half-ass this.
> 
> For all you know, there’s evidence of another affair — if not other _affairs_ — on that phone.
> 
> YOU set the terms, not her. So balls up and do it right.


There is definitely evidence on that phone that will hurt her plan B


----------



## oldshirt

Demanding to see phones and emails and social media etc only works when you demand to see it at that exact moment before they have a chance to delete everything. 

Of you give them 5 minutes, it's all gone.


----------



## Decorum

AlbertG;19624209) said:


> -	Answer all questions I have ... except saying where they had sex, again justifying it with the shame)


What would the shame be?

In his car?

In a back alley or a farm field?

In the office on his desk?

At his house?

Motel?

In your house, on your marriage bed?



Also why is she so tempted to sleep with him again?

She gives into pressure?

She is attracted to him?


Also,

Did she ever apologize for all the gaslighting, making you out as paranoid?

She had you questioning yourself. That is an awful thing to do to someone you "love".

What kind of mother is she?

Has she admitted to building a false negative image of you, to gaslight you and justify her affair? Has she sincerely apologized?

Would she take that treatment from you for that period of time.


She said she would have slept with him that first time if it was not for her period?

Really?

Because he is so hot, or because she would gladly do anything for a good job.

I had a friend who married a Russian women he met off a website.

When her "friends" found out she was marrying a "rich" American, they demanded money, the beat her so bad she had to go to the hospital.

She finally came over here as his wife. She got a boob job and started dancing.

She left him and became the girlfriend of the guy who owned the strip club she danced at.

Yeah, she was not a very high quality individual.

He died a year later, but he was a bit older (20 yrs maybe. Late 50's). Vietnam veteran, 60's doper, clogged arteries.

At least he got some young :cat: before he died.

What kind of person is your wife?


----------



## Decorum

AlbertG said:


> -	Answer all questions I have ... except saying where they had sex, again justifying it with the shame)


What would the shame be?

In his car?

In a back alley or a farm field?

In the office on his desk?

At his house?

Motel?

In your house, on your marriage bed?
Maybe there is another reason.

Also why is she so tempted to sleep with him again?

She gives into pressure?

She is attracted to him?


Also,

Did she ever apologize for all the gaslighting, making you out as paranoid?

She had you questioning yourself. That is an awful thing to do to someone you "love".


Has she admitted to building a false negative image of you, to gaslight you and justify her affair?

Would she take that treatment from you for that period of time.


She said she would have slept with him that first time if it was not for her period?

Really?

Because he is so hot, or because she would gladly do anything for a good job.

I had a friend who married a Russian women he met off a website.

When her "friends" found out she was marrying a "rich" American, they demanded money, the beat her so bad she had to go to the hospital.

She finally came over here as his wife. She got a boob job and started dancing.

She left him and became the girlfriend of the guy who owned the strip club she danced at.

Yeah, she was not a very high quality individual.

He died a year later, but he was a bit older (20 yrs maybe, late 50's). Vietnam veteran, 60's doper, clogged arteries.

At least he got some young :cat: before he died.

What kind of person is your wife?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Albert, you were in denial before, and you still are in denial now. You just kicked the can down the street a bit, but still in denial. Six months from now, when you read your posts now, once again, you'll feel a bit foolish for not seing it.

There are some threads where it is just so obvious. It's like watching a movie, where the innocent victim is walking down the street, and the villain is pretending to be a friend, and the viewer feels like screaming at the screen, wake up!!! Sorry for the exclamation points, because I have no strong feelings, really, about it. I've seen it a lot here.

You can call your wife's friends "toxic friends," and surely that is true, and "toxic" is maybe even an understatement. And other man, a "fox" (I guess meaning sneaky), I'll go along with that, I don't really care. Because the problem is your wife. She is among them. She is not different from other man, she is not different from "toxic" girlfriends.

When toxic girlfriends insulted you, how strenuously did your wife object? Your wife has treated you as a weak man who can be easily manipulated. While you suffer in haydes every day, she is glibly and casually telling her friends how she can't resist the other man's penis much longer, and also you are a terrible controlling jealous husband and she can't put up with that much longer either. Meanwhile telling you that there is no need for her to leave the job, it's just your paranoia.

It really is like watching a movie. Back when I played ball, the coach would show us a tape at the beginning of the year, of how our rival clobbered us. He'd pause the tape and say look at this, our player fell down, other player made a great play. Over and over. Every year, I'd watch that darn tape, every time that guy fell down, that other guy made the play. Every year, it never changed. Reminds me of watching you. 

You find your wife doing shady stuff, you call her out, she calls you paranoia, you find out you were right, she cries and agrees and gives you good sex. You find your wife doing shady stuff, you call her out, she calls you paranoia, you find out you were right, she cries and agrees and gives you good sex. You find your wife doing shady stuff, you call her out, she calls you paranoia, you find out you were right, she cries and agrees and gives you good sex. You find your wife doing shady stuff, you call her out, she calls you paranoia, you find out you were right, she cries and agrees and gives you good sex. 

I don't say "you should divorce." It's not my thing. Do what you want to do. I'm just telling you how I see it. What I hope for you, the wish I have for you, is that you can see the vicious cycle and stop it. YOU CAN stop it. Your wife has nothing to do with it. She is playing a game. But this is not a game. You should stop playing that game with her.

I was going to let that be my last advice, but I guess I feel like I need to be more obvious to you. Your wife is a liar, likely always has been, and you've been wearing the rose-colored glasses. YOU'VE been wearing those glasses. Not your wife. Yeah, she's a sneaky toxic person. But you've had some hints, and you've tried your best to look the other way. Then she is so shady, you just can't. Yet, you're still trying. You want to believe. You really, really want to believe.

What would it look like if your wife were not a shady, toxic, sneaky liar? What words, more important, what actions, would you see from her if she had truly changed from being a toxic liar?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

AlbertG said:


> Just quick reply here... it was her friend saying this, not my wife


Did she once defend you in endearing terms?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

"She is refusing giving access to current iphone right now saying that she would feel terrible if I read her trash chats on WhatsApp with her toxic friends, but she agrees to get new phone once she returns iphone to the company and give full me access to the new device."

AlbertG: Seriosly? Right then and there you should have told her while she works on deleting all her phone crap and buys a new phone you will be seeing an attorney and instructing them to file.


----------



## jparistotle

You need to expose this to HR. Her boss is taken advantage of her. You need to inform his wife you know all. You need to call her friend out and curse her out. Tell her that is why she is divorced and a lonely cow. Get ahead of this. You may need to get divorced. Also call out that therapist on how BAD she got this wrong.


----------



## Chaparral

So their first anniversary of a business trip was so special they needed to celebrate it. You’re trying to save your marriage by fooling yourself. They had a full blown affair and the business trips were way too much fun. 

The only upside here is he would not leave his family for her. At least she has sex with you though. That probably means she doesn’t t love him but she doesn’t love you either or she wouldn’t have been banging him anyway would she? 

Find a wife you can trust.


----------



## oldtruck

AlbertG said:


> and other thing is, affair should be kind of stopped i hope, i am pretty sure that her boss would fire her if he can, but he is afraid to do so as he knows i would go for revenge and expose. I also know he had similiar case in the past when one of employees reported him for harassment, so if that happens again he would be in deep *hit


Knowing this you do not expose this affair to his employer and get him fired.
Best way to end the affair and they won't fire WW to prevent a sexual harassment
law suit.


----------



## Robert22205

I'm sorry you're having to deal with your wife's emotional (manipulative) abuse as well as her deception and adultery. Clearly she uses your love (and desire for things to be the way they used to be or to just move on) to minimize her behavior and to deflect any significant attempts to reveal the truth or hold her accountable.

Someone that lies has no right to privacy and obviously based on her behavior with another man - she has no shame. You can't forgive what you don't know about ... and she's obviously hiding the full extent of her affair. Reporting her boss to HR would blow up his world and he deserves it (it's called consequences for his inappropriate behavior). 

She has 100% responsibility to prove that she deserves your trust and she doesn't get to decide what she needs to do (she has no say ... it's your decision...whatever you need to trust and forgive - and/or divorce). You've received excellent advice from people that have personal experience with your exact situation.


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## AlbertG

Hi all,

Just quick post before reading all your messages, i will do that after the work. I made my mind and I am starting divorce process immediately.
I asked her again for her mobile phone and this time she has given it to me. Then I told her ok, I will now connect it to PC to try to recover deleted messages. She jumped like the panther and took the phone from me.

So that was really the last drop, I can't stand this anymore and have made my mind. I guess I will have to change now to another subforum about the divorce as I really have no clue what to expect there. This time I will try to listen more carefully to all advises given here. 

Maybe if I did the exposure at her work early on in September last year I could still save the marriage, but i would then face years of agony and false reconciliation and then few years down the road the same thing would happen, I now clearly see that her character is like that and it is impossible to change. Now I am starting again with 42 years on my back which is still not too much, looking better than ever (even my stbxw said that this morning), I have two wonderful children that I am going to take care off every other week, and will have more free time then ever for activities, hobbies, dating, travel, etc. I guess she will try to screw me financially as much as she can, but at the end it is only money, and I have chance to focus now and earn more than ever.

I feel sad and happy at the same time, and again thank everybody for the support. I apologize for being in denial for so long and acting like pu**y. I also expect that lessons learned during this year will be very helpful for the rest of my life and I will not allow again any women to take advantage of me.


----------



## Andy1001

AlbertG said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just quick post before reading all your messages, i will do that after the work. I made my mind and I am starting divorce process immediately.
> I asked her again for her mobile phone and this time she has given it to me. Then I told her ok, I will now connect it to PC to try to recover deleted messages. She jumped like the panther and took the phone from me.
> 
> So that was really the last drop, I can't stand this anymore and have made my mind. I guess I will have to change now to another subforum about the divorce as I really have no clue what to expect there. This time I will try to listen more carefully to all advises given here.
> 
> Maybe if I did the exposure at her work early on in September last year I could still save the marriage, but i would then face years of agony and false reconciliation and then few years down the road the same thing would happen, I now clearly see that her character is like that and it is impossible to change. Now I am starting again with 42 years on my back which is still not too much, looking better than ever (even my stbxw said that this morning), I have two wonderful children that I am going to take care off every other week, and will have more free time then ever for activities, hobbies, dating, travel, etc. I guess she will try to screw me financially as much as she can, but at the end it is only money, and I have chance to focus now and earn more than ever.
> 
> I feel sad and happy at the same time, and again thank everybody for the support. I apologize for being in denial for so long and acting like pu**y. I also expect that lessons learned during this year will be very helpful for the rest of my life and I will not allow again any women to take advantage of me.


It seems she was only trying to pacify you with her apologies and she has no intention of being faithful to you. 
I don’t think you have much to worry about financially,if you share custody fifty fifty and she has a good job then why should she get anything off you once your assets are divided. 
Anyway you can always make more money,self respect is harder to come by.


----------



## Decorum

You are doing what you have to do.

You can see now how shady she is.

We have a saying here, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them!".

I wish you well.
Take care!


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## Decorum

Albert,

I know you love your children dearly.

It is important to know as much about their medical history as possible.

I think now that you are starting divorce proceedings it would be prudent to do a DNA paternity test.
(I lose track of threads, forgive me if this has been done already)

Your STBXW will hate this to be sure, but it will be a good lesson to her about integrity and broken trust.

I am sure you will always be their dad, but there are certain things Doctors rule out or tend not to test for based on family history. (Like polyps, or colon or other cancer, HBP, HD, etc)

If they are not genetically related to you, then for the family history for the father's side on the admission forms you can responsibly say, "Unknown".

I think it would be in their best interest to be sure.

Take care!


----------



## Decorum

AlbertG said:


> So that was really the last drop, I can't stand this anymore and have made my mind. I guess I will have to change now to another subforum about the divorce as I really have no clue what to expect there. This time I will try to listen more carefully to all advises given here.
> 
> Maybe if I did the exposure at her work early on in September last year I could still save the marriage, but i would then face years of agony and false reconciliation and then few years down the road the same thing would happen, I now clearly see that her character is like that and it is impossible to change. .
> 
> I feel sad and happy at the same time, and again thank everybody for the support. I apologize for being in denial for so long and acting like pu**y. I also expect that lessons learned during this year will be very helpful for the rest of my life and I will not allow again any women to take advantage of me.


Albert, 
There is no shame here. She took advantage of your trust. That is on her.

That type of betrayal is forign to who you are now, you were not expecting it.

You are well within the common range for a betrayed husband to understand and accept what his wayward wife was doing.

Many, many people read these threads, some post, some don't. Some only post after they see red flags in their spouse that they learned about here on TAM.

Your thread will be educational, and encouraging to them.

Giving timely updates will be very helpful, please do so if you can, even after you post in your new thread.

Maybe at some point we will see your name on posts trying to help others with what you have learned from your experience.

Live well!


----------



## Blondilocks

If you actually decide to contact a solicitor, keep mum about it. No need to discuss anything with your wife as she will be able to use it to her advantage. Her solicitor and your solicitor can hash it out. Just think what you may have learned if you had not announced your intent to recover messages from her phone giving her the chance to snatch it back. Don't give the enemy your battle plans.


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## Kamstel

I’m sorry. What you are doing is not easy, but You know that you must do it.

Just a few suggestions. 
Don’t tell her if you haven’t already. Have her served at work. 

Have her served at work.
Don’t tell her about the VAR- don’t let her know where you got the information from.

Tell the boss’ wife. She needs to know about the affair. She needs to know what her marriage is really like.

Talk to your lawyer whether or not you should inform their company’s HR


I’m sorry and be strong as you move forward


----------



## Chaparral

For future reference download/read THE MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. This is not to suggest you did anything wrong but it will help you see how your roll affects your relationships. Her cheating is on her. It what she is. 

What almost everyone knows here from reading so many threads is that you still have no idea how much worse what has been going on is. You have only scratched the surface of what she has done. It’s obvious to us. That’s why she freaked out when you made it look like you could read everything on her phone. She is hiding way more than you can imagine. That is why you need to DNA your children. You also need to contact the other mans wife. Not knowing where you live means we cannot tell you much about divorce there. Regarding alimony or custody of the children for example. 

You will probably get better advice here for divorce though than any other forum though because there are many, many more people that keep an eye on this section.

Good luck and ask any questions you like. It would help to know what country you live in.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

AlbertG said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just quick post before reading all your messages, i will do that after the work. I made my mind and I am starting divorce process immediately.
> I asked her again for her mobile phone and this time she has given it to me. Then I told her ok, I will now connect it to PC to try to recover deleted messages. She jumped like the panther and took the phone from me.
> 
> So that was really the last drop, I can't stand this anymore and have made my mind. I guess I will have to change now to another subforum about the divorce as I really have no clue what to expect there. This time I will try to listen more carefully to all advises given here.
> 
> Maybe if I did the exposure at her work early on in September last year I could still save the marriage, but i would then face years of agony and false reconciliation and then few years down the road the same thing would happen, I now clearly see that her character is like that and it is impossible to change. Now I am starting again with 42 years on my back which is still not too much, looking better than ever (even my stbxw said that this morning), I have two wonderful children that I am going to take care off every other week, and will have more free time then ever for activities, hobbies, dating, travel, etc. I guess she will try to screw me financially as much as she can, but at the end it is only money, and I have chance to focus now and earn more than ever.
> 
> I feel sad and happy at the same time, and again thank everybody for the support. I apologize for being in denial for so long and acting like pu**y. I also expect that lessons learned during this year will be very helpful for the rest of my life and I will not allow again any women to take advantage of me.


AbertG, there is no doubt in my mind should you have reconciled your wife would have walked out anyway once the kids were out of the house. She was just marking time by wasting yours. 

You are making the right choice.


----------



## TDSC60

Have you contacted OMs wife?

She deserves to know about the affair.


----------



## AlbertG

TDSC60 said:


> Have you contacted OMs wife?
> 
> She deserves to know about the affair.


No and I will not do that (yet)
I do not want to risk my stbxw having troubles at work as both she and I need that job
However I friendly advised he to start collecting hard proofs about her affair with POSOM in case he tries to fire her or do anything nasty
Hopefully she will be smart enough to do so


----------



## StillSearching

“If you have a comprehensive explanation for everything then it decreases uncertainty and anxiety and reduces your cognitive load. And if you can use that simplifying algorithm to put yourself on the side of moral virtue then you’re constantly a good person with a minimum of effort.” 
― Jordan B. Peterson

Your wife and mine are not good people.


----------



## Dyokemm

AlbertG said:


> No and I will not do that (yet)
> I do not want to risk my stbxw having troubles at work as both she and I need that job
> However I friendly advised he to start collecting hard proofs about her affair with POSOM in case he tries to fire her or do anything nasty
> Hopefully she will be smart enough to do so


Believe me....

POSOM is the one who REALLY wants to keep this hidden.....

A Boss/Superior, WITH A PREVIOUS complaint for sexual inappropriate behavior, having an A with a M subordinate.

HE is the one who would be toast......and no competent HR department would recommend firing your WW after exposure because of the dangers of a lawsuit by her alleging she felt pressured into the A because he was her superior.

HR would view firing your WW as almost asking for future legal problems.....

Yeah.....her promotion chances at the company would probably be toast, and she would be encouraged to eventually move on....

But that would be HER problem to deal with after you were D.

Albert.....

You are once again NOT listening to the majority of posters here....and it is about something you have been advised to do since the day you first posted! 

Expose the A!!......at the very least to the OBS.


----------



## TDSC60

AlbertG said:


> No and I will not do that (yet)
> I do not want to risk my stbxw having troubles at work as both she and I need that job
> However I friendly advised he to start collecting hard proofs about her affair with POSOM in case he tries to fire her or do anything nasty
> Hopefully she will be smart enough to do so


I understand totally.

Having made up your mind to divorce, your first priority needs to be protecting your kids and yourself. Her keeping her job will definitely be better for you in the divorce.

After the divorce, you can contact OBS and let her know why you divorced your XW.

BTW. Her leaping to grab the phone back when you said "retrieve the deleted message" shows that she had sex with him way more than one time or that she had other affairs.

Hate to say it, but you may need to check the paternity of your kids.


----------



## OutofRetirement

How is your wife taking all the recent events?


----------



## farsidejunky

Albert, exposure is for reconciliation...not divorce.

You are doing the right thing. Secure the best deal possible. 

Post divorce? A little birdie might have a thing or two to say. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## manfromlamancha

Albert you are finally acting like you have seen the light. Lets be clear about the following:


1. She wanted to and did **** her boss. Not just for promotions and favours at work, but also because she enjoyed doing it.

2. Whether she said it or not, she feels that she has outgrown you.

3. She cannot resist ****ing him again - she more or less has said that openly.

4. She has never stopped lying to you and there is no indication that she ever will.

5. She would have ****ed him a lot more by now if her period didn't get in the way the first time and also you finding stuff out.

6. Her proficiency at lying is incredibly good and disrespectful - I like the one about I would have got sexier underwear if I were going to **** somebody!!

7. She is not going to miss you if you divorce - she is partially out the door anyway. 

8. You are doing the right thing now about playing this to protect your finances, assets and child access/custody.

9. However, telling the OMW at some stage once you have secured your finances and other protection with a lawyer is a must and is the right thing to do. She deserves to know.


Please be clear that you are now in self preservation mode.


----------



## AlbertG

OutofRetirement said:


> How is your wife taking all the recent events?


She is not good, and me neither to be honest... After she took the phone back, I have vented out and started yelling and calling her names, which I never did during this crisis until now, I even started throwing her clothes from the closet on the floor. I calmed down very quickly luckily, and I will pay special attention not to do such things anymore. Since then it is roller coaster, yesterday i felt good and confident I am doing the right thing. Then this morning I noticed that behavior of my kids is completely different than usually... Daughter (almost 6) just sit in the corner with her tablet and not talking whole morning, and little boy (3) cried unusually long and loud sitting on the kitchen floor. They are starting to feel the tension in the house

I told her 2 days ago that divorce is my final decision. At that moment she pretend she is strong and said ok, let's do that, we are anyway too different. And yesterday night when I came home she started to talk and cry, trying to explain me i should think about important things in the life, saying how terrible she felt with me during last 3 years (since other kid is born) and finding all possible justifications why she did what she did. Later that night she told me that she had meeting with a lawyer already and apparently her waking up has already started. She also had a session with the therapist yesterday but did not want to share details.

I listened the recording again and I can conclude from the conversation with her gf is that they had multiple encounters and full blown affair, however without real references when/how many times/how long. Also her gf said "baby you are really in love" and she replied no, which did not sound very confident. Whole recording actually sounded much worse and more painful for me then the first time I heard it. One of the very few positive things I heard is that she never cheated on me before (which honestly does not mean too much for me after 10 months of lies and deception). 

And of course she is still playing the script saying they had sex one time only, back in October. This is what I can't understand, how is it possible to stick with the lies for so long? I think that in similar situation I would say all I have long time ago and let destiny take care of the rest


----------



## SentHereForAReason

AlbertG said:


> She is not good, and me neither to be honest... After she took the phone back, I have vented out and started yelling and calling her names, which I never did during this crisis until now, I even started throwing her clothes from the closet on the floor. I calmed down very quickly luckily, and I will pay special attention not to do such things anymore. Since then it is roller coaster, yesterday i felt good and confident I am doing the right thing. Then this morning I noticed that behavior of my kids is completely different than usually... Daughter (almost 6) just sit in the corner with her tablet and not talking whole morning, and little boy (3) cried unusually long and loud sitting on the kitchen floor. They are starting to feel the tension in the house
> 
> I told her 2 days ago that divorce is my final decision. At that moment she pretend she is strong and said ok, let's do that, we are anyway too different. And yesterday night when I came home she started to talk and cry, trying to explain me i should think about important things in the life, saying how terrible she felt with me during last 3 years (since other kid is born) and finding all possible justifications why she did what she did. Later that night she told me that she had meeting with a lawyer already and apparently her waking up has already started. She also had a session with the therapist yesterday but did not want to share details.
> 
> I listened the recording again and I can conclude from the conversation with her gf is that they had multiple encounters and full blown affair, however without real references when/how many times/how long. Also her gf said "baby you are really in love" and she replied no, which did not sound very confident. Whole recording actually sounded much worse and more painful for me then the first time I heard it. One of the very few positive things I heard is that she never cheated on me before (which honestly does not mean too much for me after 10 months of lies and deception).
> 
> *And of course she is still playing the script saying they had sex one time only, back in October. This is what I can't understand, how is it possible to stick with the lies for so long? I think that in similar situation I would say all I have long time ago and let destiny take care of the rest*


That's not how it works with people that have this mental 'disorder'. The lying and the scope or length of lying has no bounds and it befuddles me as well. I could write a novel about it and I have mentioned it her several times as a response to people about the drastic levels these people go through but the most glaring example I have to share is this. 

The third or 4th time I confronted my EW with a mountain of evidence, didn't mean much at this point, we were already 2 months into the divorce process but still living together. I had all of her texts that she sent to OM from her burner phone. I had them memorized in my head so even when she tried to deny everything I started reading them back in my head to her word for word and she went from swearing to God that she didn't do any of these things (she's a devout Catholic and integral member of the parish) to saying the words meant something else or they were just words, etc, etc. You just don't know how sick in the head these people are until they can look you square in the eyes and lie, even when the evidence is sitting right in front of them, as clear as day.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

AlbertG said:


> She is not good, and me neither to be honest... After she took the phone back, I have vented out and started yelling and calling her names, which I never did during this crisis until now, I even started throwing her clothes from the closet on the floor. I calmed down very quickly luckily, and I will pay special attention not to do such things anymore. Since then it is roller coaster, yesterday i felt good and confident I am doing the right thing. Then this morning I noticed that behavior of my kids is completely different than usually... Daughter (almost 6) just sit in the corner with her tablet and not talking whole morning, and little boy (3) cried unusually long and loud sitting on the kitchen floor. They are starting to feel the tension in the house
> 
> *I told her 2 days ago that divorce is my final decision. At that moment she pretend she is strong and said ok, let's do that, we are anyway too different. And yesterday night when I came home she started to talk and cry, trying to explain me i should think about important things in the life, saying how terrible she felt with me during last 3 years (since other kid is born) and finding all possible justifications why she did what she did. Later that night she told me that she had meeting with a lawyer already and apparently her waking up has already started. She also had a session with the therapist yesterday but did not want to share details.*
> 
> She is not pretending to be strong. She is simply emotionally way ahead of you on this. Consider that she has had months to rewire her brain in detaching from you, blaming you for her decisions. All the while not letting you know. She is simply a cheater, a liar who got away with lying to your face but no more.
> 
> *I listened the recording again and I can conclude from the conversation with her gf is that they had multiple encounters and full blown affair, however without real references when/how many times/how long. Also her gf said "baby you are really in love" and she replied no, which did not sound very confident. Whole recording actually sounded much worse and more painful for me then the first time I heard it. One of the very few positive things I heard is that she never cheated on me before (which honestly does not mean too much for me after 10 months of lies and deception).
> *
> 
> Of course it was a full blown affair. As far as not cheating before just because she claims to her friends no means nothing. Zilch. She can lie to them as easily as she lied to you. She may not want to be **** shamed by them so she parries the love word about. Anyone who constantly cheats on their partner raises eyebrows among anyone. People start to talk and then keep their distance. Pariah. She cannot 'love' all of them right? So when it happans it must be love.....
> 
> *And of course she is still playing the script saying they had sex one time only, back in October. This is what I can't understand, how is it possible to stick with the lies for so long? I think that in similar situation I would say all I have long time ago and let destiny take care of the rest*


She will continue to lie to your face. Just tell her you have absolute proof it has been an on/off affair for X number of months and with whom. Remind her that although she may have zero respect for you as a man, as a husband and as a father to the children she should at least respect the children's future because as their father they will learn the truth some day. That day will be at your discretion. That it would be really sad for them to learn that their mother was a bald faced liar who lied to not only you but to them as well. Repeatedly. Tell her that is her choice. Like the choice she made when to cheat and lie to you for months.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Not that I think this will work or that it matters anymore since you are going ahead with divorce, but you need to sit her down and very carefully and calmly explain to her that you do not believe anything she says anymore - however, the worst thing she can do right now (and what is making matters much, much worse) is not ****ing her boss but the lying. The best she can do is be very very honest and truthful and maybe this will not get as bitter as it is going to get with her clinging on to her lies. She really needs to understand that it is not the betrayal but the continued lies from her that hurts the most.

Albert, in your country, does infidelity affect the terms of your divorce ? Are you in Europe, Latin America, Asia ? This will help us understand why she might continue lying no matter what you say to her.

Take care.


----------



## seadoug105

AlbertG said:


> .....she had one sexual encounter with her boss back in October (_*after my first confrontation*_)


this is the part that ALWAYS gets me.... the cheating spouse cheats AFTER they are confronted and then claim.. it was a mistake... they got caught up in the moment... they felt pressured.... they didn't know what to do... etc...


Play as day.... they don't love their BS, their marriage, or their family as much as they want to do what they want to do.... 


In reality it shows a level of distain/hatred for the BS.... "screw them.... they don't mattter! I will do what I want!"


And your wife proved that even more with her phone crap.... she was going to give you access to her next phone.... but she didn't say... was that she was most likely going to keep the current one as a burner..... (I got to keep my phone & # from my last job and ported it to a diff carrier... odds are she would too)


Although I am sorry you are here and things progressed the way they did.... you are on the right track now and doing GREAT!


----------



## Tron

AlbertG said:


> I told her 2 days ago that divorce is my final decision. At that moment she pretend she is strong and said ok, let's do that, we are anyway too different. And yesterday night when I came home she started to talk and cry, trying to explain me i should think about important things in the life, saying how terrible she felt with me during last 3 years (since other kid is born) and finding all possible justifications why she did what she did. Later that night she told me that she had meeting with a lawyer already and apparently her waking up has already started. She also had a session with the therapist yesterday but did not want to share details.


I'm sorry things with the kids aren't going well. The divorce is going to be hard on them. It is unavoidable.

As for her, you need to shut down all of her complaining about you. She is just dumping all of her anger and internal crappola on you. Don't put up with it.

"The reason we won't be together is because you F'd another man and lied to me for months. This D is on you. Let's just try and get through it without totally destroying these kids." Then leave the room. 

Simply put, if you were to try and stay together it might do some good to listen to her, to her complaints, her issues and try and change things. BUT your not trying to stay together. So let her live in her own ****box, let her drown in it. She isn't your problem anymore. 

Talk should be limited to what is needed to (1) take care of the kids and (2) to settle things related to the divorce (money/property/child custody).


----------



## smi11ie

Her behaviour is leaving no room for reconciliation. You really should do the 180 which is basically a way to protect your own happiness. I think you should also think about exposing her and filing for divorce. In order to successfully do the 180 you need to accept your marriage is over.


----------



## Decorum

AlbertG said:


> And of course she is still playing the script saying they had sex one time only, back in October. This is what I can't understand, how is it possible to stick with the lies for so long? I think that in similar situation I would say all I have long time ago and let destiny take care of the rest


As a matter of self protection, it's their nature to minimize the affair, admitting only to what you can prove.

We call it trickle truth, it happens almost every time in an affair.

They withold information you need to make an informed decision.

They are willing to live the lie, and if it does go to divorce they are somewhat preserving their reputation. 

We often say that a woman is "entitled " when she cheats.

Commonly that means they have convinced themselves that you are inattentive enough, maybe even that you no longer love them, that they deserve to feel good.

At the time they dont attach anymore shame or guilt to the act then they might to an act of masturbation.

They are just pleasing themselves. Later they may feel some guilt and fear.


----------



## Taxman

Albert-wait until you have a final divorce, and that all of the financials are engraved in stone. THEN you get your revenge. Contact HR at their company and begin the conversation thusly: Hello, I am the ex-husband or Mrs AlbertG. I understand that she is still a current employee. Our divorce was precipitated by a sexual affair that she had with her supervisor. The sex apparently occurred on your property. As a consequence of this, I have consulted with my legal representatives and have decided to sue your company. I will be making this quite public.

Even if the threat of litigation is bull, they take this very seriously no matter what part of the world in which you reside. Hold your water, wait until she has walked away with as little as possible, and then take her and her boyfriend's common ground out of the equation. That should end them as a couple once and for all. Once that is accomplished, call his wife. Let her know what is happening. She will likely appreciate the favor.

Scorch the earth and burn her ass for good measure. I call this the penalty for taking your spouse for an idiot. I have had spouses ask why they were burnt? The response is usually, you went behind my back, fuçked someone else, and then lied, gaslit, and ultimately rug-swept all of this deceit and betrayal? Well this is how it feels to have your entire world burnt down before your eyes. You did it to me, so I am returning the favor. Since I was forced to remake my life due to your incapability of being faithful, I decided that you need to remake your own world....from scratch.


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## BluesPower

Taxman said:


> Albert-wait until you have a final divorce, and that all of the financials are engraved in stone. THEN you get your revenge. Contact HR at their company and begin the conversation thusly: Hello, I am the ex-husband or Mrs AlbertG. I understand that she is still a current employee. Our divorce was precipitated by a sexual affair that she had with her supervisor. The sex apparently occurred on your property. As a consequence of this, I have consulted with my legal representatives and have decided to sue your company.
> 
> Even if the threat of litigation is bull, they take this very seriously no matter what part of the world in which you reside. Hold your water, wait until she has walked away with as little as possible, and then take her and her boyfriend's common ground out of the equation. That should end them as a couple once and for all. Once that is accomplished, call his wife. Let her know what is happening. She will likely appreciate the favor.


I love you man... in a manly way...


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## Decorum

AlbertG said:


> She also had a session with the therapist yesterday but did not want to share details.


All those years in school, and all those sheepskins on the wall, even still in all likelyhood here is what that counselor will tell your wife in so many words. 

"It's your husband's fault that you cheated!"


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## SentHereForAReason

Decorum said:


> All those years in school, and all those sheepskins on the wall, even still in all likelyhood here is what that counselor will tell your wife in so many words.
> 
> "It's your husband's fault that you cheated!"


Sad how the fears of ICs being a detriment to so many instead of a help was realized in my own experience. The Marriage Counselor that I picked out ended up being a great blessing, after the 3 times my EW went, the MC became my IC and she was great, had experience in so many areas, 30+ years of overall experience and I still see her every 2 weeks, starting 10 months ago. 

My EW started IC in November and found out when I found out the truth that her IC was basically encouraging the behavior with OM, at the very least sure as Hell wasn't discouraging it. But then again, I can only imagine the stuff that my EW told the IC to get the response she wanted, same thing she did to friends and family. (Wasn't happy, wasn't working out, she tried, no love) She told her uncle we hadn't had sex in 5 years lol. I mean there wasn't much sex but at the time she told him that, we had, had sex 4 months prior to that convo she had.


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## BluesPower

stillfightingforus said:


> Sad how the fears of ICs being a detriment to so many instead of a help was realized in my own experience. The Marriage Counselor that I picked out ended up being a great blessing, after the 3 times my EW went, the MC became my IC and she was great, had experience in so many areas, 30+ years of overall experience and I still see her every 2 weeks, starting 10 months ago.
> 
> My EW started IC in November and found out when I found out the truth that her IC was basically encouraging the behavior with OM, at the very least sure as Hell wasn't discouraging it. But then again, I can only imagine the stuff that my EW told the IC to get the response she wanted, same thing she did to friends and family. (Wasn't happy, wasn't working out, she tried, no love) She told her uncle we hadn't had sex in 5 years lol. I mean there wasn't much sex but at the time she told him that, we had, had sex 4 months prior to that convo she had.


Honestly, it is not a baseless fear. I have meet more therapists and marriage counselors that were bad than I have met that were good. 

I get that it is anecdotal, but that is the truth. Frankly, some of them just want you to come back, and will tell you anything. 

Most of these people will not tell someone like your ExW that she is full of S***. 

The problem is that if you are not there for the right reason, and you lie to them, there is not much they can do, so that is an issue as well. 

The other problem is that people are so mixed up that they don't know a good therapist from a bad one, and that is a huge problem. 

I am a believer in therapy, with the right therapist...


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## Decorum

BluesPower said:


> Honestly, it is not a baseless fear. I have meet more therapists and marriage counselors that were bad than I have met that were good.
> 
> I get that it is anecdotal, but that is the truth. Frankly, some of them just want you to come back, and will tell you anything.
> 
> Most of these people will not tell someone like your ExW that she is full of S***.
> 
> The problem is that if you are not there for the right reason, and you lie to them, there is not much they can do, so that is an issue as well.
> 
> The other problem is that people are so mixed up that they don't know a good therapist from a bad one, and that is a huge problem.
> 
> I am a believer in therapy, with the right therapist...


Agreed, both my wife and I have benefited from IC.

We have had several betwen us, some good some not.

The trick for the patient is to know the difference. 

My observation on these boards is that the number that tend to be enablers/equivalency prone is disturbingly high.


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## Handy

* Taxman
The sex apparently occurred on your property. As a consequence of this, I have consulted with my legal representatives and have decided to sue your company. I will be making this quite public.*

Taxman, your stories are usually entertaining. I think the above is placing too much imaginary power in what a company can do. I see this as unreasonable. Companies try to limit affairs but can't prevent all affairs.

Getting the OM fired, I think they can manage that, but the OM might hire an attorney to block the firing.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Handy said:


> Taxman, your stories are usually entertaining. I think the above is placing too much imaginary power in what a company can do. I see this as unreasonable. Companies try to limit affairs but can't prevent all affairs.


I think you missed the part where Taxman conceded that it might be a BS threat just to put the fear of bad publicity into them. Companies do not want this kind of publicity. A lawsuit, even if baseless, might result in bad publicity.


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## Chaparral

You haven’t put the recorder back in the car? What she is telling her friend or boss now might help you a lot n the long run.


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## Taxman

My experience with this is that almost every time this has happened in a company of any size, the result is that one or both parties are terminated. Furthermore, that termination carries with it a reasonable negative reference. I have always counseled this kind of revenge on the OM/OW. At the minimum, if one desires R, then it launches the AP out of the work environment. It allows the BS to observe behavior when the AP cannot make contact during the work day. The Office wife/husband dynamic helps in keeping the affair sub-rosa. Everything is normalized both at home and at work. Once that dynamic is broken, the BS can determine how deep in the affair their spouse is. Therefore, it is of primary importance if R is desired to break up the little office romance. 

Conversely, if D is desired, then let the romance continue until the divorce is complete. My BF has been through this a few times (don't ask-rotten picker). His 1st was the most spectacular. She was a piece of work. When she worked, she was continually being fired, and when she didn't, she sat on her fat ass all day, and did nothing. Well, she manages to stick with one job. She lasts beyond two months, and seems to be happier than hell. It does not take long before one of her coworkers is telling him that his wife is spending lunch in the backseat of her car with another guy from the office. I give him the name of a PI, and for a few bucks, the PI shoots a good number of pics of them doing the deed in the back of her car. He does not expose, he just quietly files divorce. He moves out, citing that they are always fighting. Good financial settlement, they made equal amounts. On the day the decree is issued, we send the pictures to HR of their company. She gets her divorce decree at 1PM, at 4 she is marched into HR, along with her AP, and they are both terminated for cause. She calls him just as he arrived home, first words out of her mouth, "You Motherfúcker" now what am I going to do? He laughed in her face. Said she should take her talents to a streetcorner somewhere. Said that she is her boyfriend's problem now. Her response? He's broke too, and he has a wife and kid to support. Awwwwwwwwwww poor baby.


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## GusPolinski

AlbertG said:


> She is not good, and me neither to be honest... After she took the phone back, I have vented out and started yelling and calling her names, which I never did during this crisis until now, I even started throwing her clothes from the closet on the floor. I calmed down very quickly luckily, and I will pay special attention not to do such things anymore. Since then it is roller coaster, yesterday i felt good and confident I am doing the right thing. Then this morning I noticed that behavior of my kids is completely different than usually... Daughter (almost 6) just sit in the corner with her tablet and not talking whole morning, and little boy (3) cried unusually long and loud sitting on the kitchen floor. They are starting to feel the tension in the house
> 
> I told her 2 days ago that divorce is my final decision. At that moment she pretend she is strong and said ok, let's do that, we are anyway too different. And yesterday night when I came home she started to talk and cry, trying to explain me i should think about important things in the life, saying how terrible she felt with me during last 3 years (since other kid is born) and finding all possible justifications why she did what she did. Later that night she told me that she had meeting with a lawyer already and apparently her waking up has already started. She also had a session with the therapist yesterday but did not want to share details.
> 
> I listened the recording again and I can conclude from the conversation with her gf is that they had multiple encounters and full blown affair, however without real references when/how many times/how long. Also her gf said "baby you are really in love" and she replied no, which did not sound very confident. Whole recording actually sounded much worse and more painful for me then the first time I heard it. One of the very few positive things I heard is that she never cheated on me before (which honestly does not mean too much for me after 10 months of lies and deception).
> 
> And of course she is still playing the script saying they had sex one time only, back in October. This is what I can't understand, how is it possible to stick with the lies for so long? I think that in similar situation I would say all I have long time ago and let destiny take care of the rest


Standard M.O. for nearly every cheater that ever lived is to “lie ‘til you die”.

Basically, if they can, they’ll outright deny everything. If they can’t deny everything, they’ll lie about what they *think* they can in order to mitigate impact — this includes impact to marriage, family, social status, financial status, public image, career, you name it.

IOW, it’s pretty much par for the course so far.


----------



## Decorum

Taxman said:


> .....first words out of her mouth, "You Motherf'.....


----------



## Taxman

Albert, this is what kills them. A year or so, you will have found a better relationship. She may have one, but let’s be fair, she is incapable of dealing with a relationship. She will either be stepping out or miserable because she ended a perfectly good marriage for nothing. She will shlt her pants when she sees you happy and showering your new mate with what she could have gotten had she not cheated. I have had that tearful meeting, where the WS knows that they screwed up royally. I had one vow to break up her ex husband’s new marriage because, “I’m miserable, and he is happy, how is that fair?” To which I replied, he divorced because he could not share his marriage with your boyfriend. She counters with, “Yeah, that is over now, I thought my husband loved me.” I replied that whethervhe did or did not is academic, your actions caused him to not want you in his life. He is now married to someone else. You had best leave them be.

She could not. She inserted herself into their life. He removed her by taking out a RO. Sixty days in a crowbar motel made her get a grip on reality pdq. The solitude made her think and figure out that she was entirely to blame. She wrote a heartfelt letter, and took her own life. She left nothing but destruction in her wake and could not deal with consequences.


----------



## Decorum

AlbertG said:


> And of course she is still playing the script saying they had sex one time only, back in October. This is what I can't understand, how is it possible to stick with the lies for so long? I think that in similar situation I would say all I have long time ago and let destiny take care of the rest


AlbertG,
If it comes up again you could always try some psychology and tell her there is no doubt in your mind they had sex on multiple occasions, and her lack of honesty is what makes it so easy to move forward with divorce.

No honesty = No relationship

Of course if she admits to more (considering her grabbing the phone and all) it's too little, too late.

If she insists it is still only one say, "Just keep saying that, because it is making this sooo much easier!"

Just keep in mind this is like tricking her into telling the truth, it does not make her an honest partner.

Right now she is balancing telling the truth with saving her marriage now or her reputation after divorce.

Her honesty is completely circumstantial atm.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Taxman said:


> Albert, this is what kills them. A year or so, you will have found a better relationship. She may have one, but let’s be fair, she is incapable of dealing with a relationship. She will either be stepping out or miserable because she ended a perfectly good marriage for nothing. She will shlt her pants when she sees you happy and showering your new mate with what she could have gotten had she not cheated. I have had that tearful meeting, where the WS knows that they screwed up royally. I had one vow to break up her ex husband’s new marriage because, “I’m miserable, and he is happy, how is that fair?” To which I replied, he divorced because he could not share his marriage with your boyfriend. She counters with, “Yeah, that is over now, I thought my husband loved me.” I replied that whethervhe did or did not is academic, your actions caused him to not want you in his life. He is now married to someone else. You had best leave them be.
> 
> She could not. She inserted herself into their life. He removed her by taking out a RO. Sixty days in a crowbar motel made her get a grip on reality pdq. The solitude made her think and figure out that she was entirely to blame. She wrote a heartfelt letter, and took her own life. She left nothing but destruction in her wake and could not deal with consequences.


You have seen more than us to know this probably plays out more than not when:

- It truly was a decent guy, good marriage
- Wife had internal issues, etc
- Man moves on and finds someone else eventually

That what happens is what you state above but I'm trying not to think about that. I am still too vested mentally in my EW of only 11 days on when she sees what she has done and left. I know I cannot depend on that because it may never happen, even when the three points above play out. My counselor said that God will give her ways to see the light or to take a new path but she has chosen not to take those paths throughout her life and whatever pains her internally, whatever the real issues are, she chooses to send them deeper and deeper and ignore them, excuse them and blame something else and move on to the next thing that may or may not make her happy. Even if she doesn't get hit with the epiphany in the somewhat near future I think just from a standpoint of pure exhaustion of not finding what she thought she was looking for will have the same effect but that could be a LONG ways down the road. Like I said, I am still vested (in my head and hoping to detach from it) in hoping she sees the error of her ways and gets real help for herself but I can't count on that. I have to move on independently and find my own new way regardless of what happens to her. It's still tough though because I think it's still early in the overall process. (13 months since DDay, 11 months since she pretty much said she was done, 7 months since divorce filing and divorced only 11 days.).

I would like to think odds are it's not sustainable for what WWs like ours have done but it's pretty damn believable in the moment that they can sustain it when they look as happy as a clam and life is good for them!


----------



## honcho

Handy said:


> * Taxman
> The sex apparently occurred on your property. As a consequence of this, I have consulted with my legal representatives and have decided to sue your company. I will be making this quite public.*
> 
> Taxman, your stories are usually entertaining. I think the above is placing too much imaginary power in what a company can do. I see this as unreasonable. Companies try to limit affairs but can't prevent all affairs.
> 
> Getting the OM fired, I think they can manage that, but the OM might hire an attorney to block the firing.


Who cares if the om hires a lawyer and fights it? That the companies problem and the om problem, not the op. It's not the companies responsibility to police affairs but if the lovebirds are on company time or utilizing company resources to conduct an affair then said company is perfectly within its rights to take action.


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> You have seen more than us to know this probably plays out more than not when:
> 
> - It truly was a decent guy, good marriage
> - Wife had internal issues, etc
> - Man moves on and finds someone else eventually
> 
> That what happens is what you state above but I'm trying not to think about that. I am still too vested mentally in my EW of only 11 days on when she sees what she has done and left. I know I cannot depend on that because it may never happen, even when the three points above play out. My counselor said that God will give her ways to see the light or to take a new path but she has chosen not to take those paths throughout her life and whatever pains her internally, whatever the real issues are, she chooses to send them deeper and deeper and ignore them, excuse them and blame something else and move on to the next thing that may or may not make her happy. Even if she doesn't get hit with the epiphany in the somewhat near future I think just from a standpoint of pure exhaustion of not finding what she thought she was looking for will have the same effect but that could be a LONG ways down the road. Like I said, I am still vested (in my head and hoping to detach from it) in hoping she sees the error of her ways and gets real help for herself but I can't count on that. I have to move on independently and find my own new way regardless of what happens to her. It's still tough though because I think it's still early in the overall process. (13 months since DDay, 11 months since she pretty much said she was done, 7 months since divorce filing and divorced only 11 days.).
> 
> I would like to think odds are it's not sustainable for what WWs like ours have done but it's pretty damn believable in the moment that they can sustain it when they look as happy as a clam and life is good for them!


The majority never see the error of their ways and never tire of chasing what they perceive as the easy path to the magical world of happiness. Don't hold your breath she will ever have that aha moment.


----------



## 3putt

honcho said:


> The majority never see the error of their ways and never tire of chasing what they perceive as the easy path to the magical world of happiness. Don't hold your breath she will ever have that aha moment.


Always comes back to this, huh?


----------



## OutofRetirement

AlbertG said:


> At that moment *she pretend she is strong and said ok, let's do that*, we are anyway too different. And yesterday night when I came home she started to talk and cry, trying to e*xplain me i should think about important things in the life*, saying how terrible she felt with me during last 3 years (since other kid is born) and finding all possible justifications why she did what she did. Later that night she told me that she had meeting with a lawyer already and apparently her waking up has already started. She also had a session with the therapist yesterday but did not want to share details.
> 
> I listened the recording again and I can conclude from the conversation with her gf is that they had multiple encounters and full blown affair, however without real references when/how many times/how long. Also her gf said "baby you are really in love" and she replied no, which did not sound very confident. Whole recording actually sounded much worse and *more painful for me then the first time* I heard it. One of the very few positive things I heard is that she never cheated on me before (which honestly does not mean too much for me after 10 months of lies and deception).
> 
> And of course she is still playing the script *saying they had sex one time only*, back in October. This is what I can't understand, how is it possible to stick with the lies for so long? *I think that in similar situation I would say* all I have long time ago and let destiny take care of the rest


Yeah, recordings, texts, etc. - it gets worse for each successive time you view it or read it the first few times, because the first time you are in shock and don't see all the details. After 3-4 times, you see all the details, the nuances, and it's much worse than you thought.

It's good to compare what you would do (an honest loyal person) and what she is doing (a liar and cheater). I assume in your life you have done some "bad" things. Relative to your life. An action that hurt someone, something either intentionally or recklessly. In those situations, what did you do? Maybe you initially tried to cover it up, when found out, lied. Maybe later at some point, a few minutes, hours, days - probably not much longer than that - you came clean, gave the full truth, sincerely apologized, and offered to do reasonable actions to prevent any further hurts, mitigate the damages to the extent you can, sincerely apologize, of course take full responsibility, and give some words to make the other person believe you are sincere.

Now what did your wife do? Blame you for it. Three years she had problems. She could have helped you by coming clean, she could have given you the phone. She is trying to manipulate you, and some of those manipulations seem like sincerity. She says "family is most important." You agree with that. But Albert, you have to look at the totality. Talk is cheap. Words are meaningless if not in agreement with actions. Her words tell a different story than her actions.

I truly believe you cannot negotiate with a love relationship while she is not being fully genuine. The best thing to do while your wife is still in this state of blaming and justifying is to just let her be and move on without her. Let her know that you will never believe the story she has been telling you. Maybe, just maybe, you'd consider it if she took a polygraph.

The story your wife gave you is incredible - it is not credible. Can't be believed. Of course you know there are things in life, all kinds of things, that are incredible, yet true. You can't believe it, but later on figure out it actually was true. If that were the case for your wife, she would tell you that. If you were in the shower and a naked woman jumped in, and your wife then ran in and saw it, would your wife believe it just happened like that? Probably not. So what would you do? Wouldn't you tell her - I KNOW IT'S UNBELIEVABLE, I wouldn't believe you either, but it's true. You would say that in different ways many times. Then you would offer whatever meager evidence you have to prove it to her, that you are truthful. You'd give her your phone, tell her take it on forensics to catch any undeleted info, I want you to see that there were no inappropriate messages from another woman. You'd wrack your brain to find any way you can to get culpatory evidence. Is there a video near the door of your house? Down the street? Did any of the neighbors see this woman?

But what did your wife do? One of her first things was to say, "OK, we're done, you and I are just different, anyway?"

I know you will be on the rollercoaster and you'll get weak at points - especially if your wife cries over and over telling you IT'S THE TRUTH. Yet, won't give you the phone.

What I've noticed is that cheaters are like big children. They grew in size, they developed physically, some of them, maybe even most of them, became true adults, body-mind-spirit, and some never did become adults - but at the time of the affair, they all acted like children. Their behavior afterwards, too. Usually fairly obvious if you are thinking that way. For example, a child wants ice cream before dinner, the adult says, "No." The child says, "please daddy, I love you, you are the BEST daddy." The dad's answer is still "No." The child says, "I hate you daddy, you are the WORST daddy." The dad's answer is still "No." The child says, "but I just want a little ice cream, not enough to spoil my dinner. Just a bite, one lick." The dad still says "No." The child says, "Well, everybody else's dad let's them eat ice cream before dinner." I hope you get the idea. Your wife wants you to just let it go, rugsweep it was they say here. She takes one tack after another - never had sex, only once, OK let's divorce, family is most important, you were a controlling husband for three years so I had to screw my boss, etc., etc.

Unfortunately, that dynamic makes you a parent to her. You are the strict dad, she is the rebellious teenage girl. Not a good dynamic for a marriage.

And what does your wife mean to you? She is openly discussing truth with a toxic friend, but not any truth with her true best friend. I don't know about you, but I didn't get married so my wife can share her true thoughts to another man and a toxic friend. Where do you stand in your wife's life? Her-1, other man-2, toxic friend-3, kids-4, you-5. Do you have pets? Maybe you're even lower than 5. 

There is one way for her to get you to start to believe, and that is full compliance with all REASONABLE requests from you. WANTING you to get those things, so you will believe her because it actually is true. What would she say, what would she do, if you truly were NUMBER ONE in her life?


----------



## Wolfman1968

Taxman said:


> My experience with this is that almost every time this has happened in a company of any size, the result is that one or both parties are terminated. Furthermore, that termination carries with it a reasonable negative reference. I have always counseled this kind of revenge on the OM/OW. At the minimum, if one desires R, then it launches the AP out of the work environment. It allows the BS to observe behavior when the AP cannot make contact during the work day. The Office wife/husband dynamic helps in keeping the affair sub-rosa. Everything is normalized both at home and at work. Once that dynamic is broken, the BS can determine how deep in the affair their spouse is. Therefore, it is of primary importance if R is desired to break up the little office romance.
> 
> Conversely, if D is desired, then let the romance continue until the divorce is complete. My BF has been through this a few times (don't ask-rotten picker). His 1st was the most spectacular. She was a piece of work. When she worked, she was continually being fired, and when she didn't, she sat on her fat ass all day, and did nothing. Well, she manages to stick with one job. She lasts beyond two months, and seems to be happier than hell. It does not take long before one of her coworkers is telling him that his wife is spending lunch in the backseat of her car with another guy from the office. I give him the name of a PI, and for a few bucks, the PI shoots a good number of pics of them doing the deed in the back of her car. He does not expose, he just quietly files divorce. He moves out, citing that they are always fighting. Good financial settlement, they made equal amounts. On the day the decree is issued, we send the pictures to HR of their company. She gets her divorce decree at 1PM, at 4 she is marched into HR, along with her AP, and they are both terminated for cause. She calls him just as he arrived home, first words out of her mouth, "You Motherfúcker" now what am I going to do? He laughed in her face. Said she should take her talents to a streetcorner somewhere. Said that she is her boyfriend's problem now. Her response? He's broke too, and he has a wife and kid to support. Awwwwwwwwwww poor baby.



@Taxman, you are the Encyclopedia of Lessons by Example for the Betrayed Spouse!


----------



## Wolfman1968

Taxman said:


> Albert, this is what kills them. A year or so, you will have found a better relationship. She may have one, but let’s be fair, she is incapable of dealing with a relationship. She will either be stepping out or miserable because she ended a perfectly good marriage for nothing. She will shlt her pants when she sees you happy and showering your new mate with what she could have gotten had she not cheated. I have had that tearful meeting, where the WS knows that they screwed up royally. I had one vow to break up her ex husband’s new marriage because, “I’m miserable, and he is happy, how is that fair?” To which I replied, he divorced because he could not share his marriage with your boyfriend. She counters with, “Yeah, that is over now, I thought my husband loved me.” I replied that whethervhe did or did not is academic, your actions caused him to not want you in his life. He is now married to someone else. You had best leave them be.
> 
> She could not. She inserted herself into their life. He removed her by taking out a RO. Sixty days in a crowbar motel made her get a grip on reality pdq. The solitude made her think and figure out that she was entirely to blame. She wrote a heartfelt letter, and took her own life. She left nothing but destruction in her wake and could not deal with consequences.



Wow. Another great story from what you have seen. Lessons to be learned here.

@Taxman, you and your stories must be a great at cocktail parties!


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## Wolfman1968

double post


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## AlbertG

Thanks everyone for encouraging words. Here is the short summary of what happened during last few days. 
I went to talk to the lawyer regarding the divorce, and I have more or less all info I need in order to move forward and protect some investments that I had before the marriage. As I am 10 years older, I had some savings and an apartment which I sold during the marriage and I invested money into our family house. I need to make sure I get at least part of that money back once house is sold. However in the country I live (west Europe) courts are closed during the summer and only urgent things can be submitted, so I have to wait for September to submit the divorce application. We had a vacation booked for first 2 weeks of August but I decided not to go, so she will go alone with kids and I have quickly organized a business trip + small photography trip afterwards in north Italy and Switzerland, so I will have some time for my own to clear up my thoughts.

I am having some weak moments when I think that maybe we can still work it out, but they do not last for a long time – the reality has hit me very hard and I do not really have any dreams or hopes anymore that the girl I married can magically come back. The woman I live with right now is just a shadow of that girl, full of lies, manipulation and without normal human feelings I would expect
I am starting to develop a theory about what really happened and what is the underlying issue. I do not know if this makes sense, but let me try to explain. Basically, she is raised in the dysfunctional family, with father who was alcoholic and mother with her own psychological problems. She was half neglected (for example, when she was 6 years old they were leaving her alone at home with 3 years old brother while parents were gone working, with the neighbor periodically keeping eye on them. Every day after work, if father was not home at 5pm, they knew he would come home late and drunk and then he would start yelling in the house, wake them all up, sometimes beat her mother. She was also often physically punished by both father and mother. So more or less, she did not have father figure in her life, and it is probably one of the reasons why she married 10 years older man – I was actually the replacement of her dad she never really had. In the early years of the relation, she was dependent on me in pretty much every way, and I was really leading us both through. That dynamic has changed once kids were born, and more and more things started to depend on her regarding the kids and family in general. At that point I was not seen anymore as a father-like but as someone equal to her, and this is the period when her dissatisfaction and problems started to accumulate. We never had open communication in the marriage before and mostly problems were pushed under the carpet, which from outside looked as perfect marriage without any fights, and apparently it was rotten from inside.

And then, at this new work she got, her boss took over the role of the replacement father I used to be. He is now 20 years older than her, and the power and influence he has as the VP in the company was probably very attractive and irresistible. He is reasonably good looking for the man of his age, but also not Brat Pitt kind of man in any way. So the physical attraction did not really have much to do with anything that happened down the road. 
She has also finally admitted they had sex on more than one occasion. I insisted to tell me when and where – it was during the work, at the lunch break. He was taking her to some hotels, motels, whatever… So now she said it happened only couple of times and that 6 months ago she told him they have to stop doing that and since then they never did it again. I know it is lie again because of what I heard on the recording, but I do not really care anymore to get full truth.

But what is really bothering me is this. On the recording I heard her saying to her toxic friend something like this:
“I have two problems with this job in fact. First one is that my husband would again make fuzz about nothing at some point, and second problem is that sometimes I can’t resist and I do it again with the boss…”. So in her head, I was making fuzz about nothing and she was not doing anything bad. And then, in the same sentence, she admits that sometimes she can’t resist and still meets him in the hotel rooms. For me, this looks like serious psychological issue, I am not the expert in the field to establish the diagnosis myself. Actually I am starting to see this as an early sign of the genetic mental disorders which are very common in her family from mother’s side, and her mom, aunts, uncles, granpa, even her brother, they are all in a way more or less nuts. She was apparently hiding it very well until now but it slowly starts to appear. And having that in mind, if this is true, I am starting to be scared that my kids might be impacted as well during their lifetime


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## Tatsuhiko

You're doing great, Albert. Sorry for all that has happened, but I think you've got a handle on things. 

Do you really think their mental orders are genetic? Or could they just be part of a multi-generational dysfunctional family, each passing their mental illness onto the next through abuse? Maybe you could bring your kids to a therapist to have them screened and have an intervention done early if necessary.


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## BluesPower

AlbertG said:


> Thanks everyone for encouraging words. Here is the short summary of what happened during last few days.
> I went to talk to the lawyer regarding the divorce, and I have more or less all info I need in order to move forward and protect some investments that I had before the marriage. As I am 10 years older, I had some savings
> .
> .
> .
> .
> sentence, she admits that sometimes she can’t resist and still meets him in the hotel rooms. For me, this looks like serious psychological issue, I am not the expert in the field to establish the diagnosis myself. Actually I am starting to see this as an early sign of the genetic mental disorders which are very common in her family from mother’s side, and her mom, aunts, uncles, granpa, even her brother, they are all in a way more or less nuts. She was apparently hiding it very well until now but it slowly starts to appear. And having that in mind, if this is true, I am starting to be scared that my kids might be impacted as well during their lifetime


Look, the very first thing that you need to do, in order to really heal, is stop making excuses for her.

She chose to betray you and disrespect you, your marriage, and she chose to lie to you. 

She does not love you, and has no respect for you.

Does she know that you are divorcing her yet and that you know? I can't remember from your thread.

But really it does not matter way her excuses are or will be, and this is not YOUR fault. It is her fault and her choice, to throw away your marriage...


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## Kamstel

Whenever there is an affair at work, I like it when the cheater gets served at work, thereby letting the OM/OW see the cheater’s reaction, and to make them wonder if a message has been sent to the piece of sh it’s spouse


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## Kamstel

Albert, you are doing a good job. Just keep moving forward. File and try to finalize divorce as quickly as possible


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## Yeswecan

You are doing great! Keep on moving forward. Be decisive.


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## dreamer2017

Albert,

Is your wife showing any remorse and or empathy? Also, is he asking to reconcile?


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## NorseViking

Albert, any new updates?


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