# BS contacting old girlfriend during R



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

I had a year long affair. I came back before DDAY. Have been doing everything to reconcile. NC was easy for me. I choose to come back to my husband.

My BH is away at a wedding in CA. Our Best Man's wedding - he didn't want me there since it would be too painful for him. Fine, OK get that.

I have been miserable since he has been gone. 9:30pm last night I took a xanax and a glass of wine and feel asleep. He called at 9:40pm and kept calling and I finally answered 1.5 hours later. Of course this triggered him since I would not answer when I was traveling during the affair. I am home with our kids though, but understand it still triggered him.

When I answered I was read the riot act. We argrued for a bit and then he hung up on me. I checked the phone records this morning and he starting texting his old girlfriend who lives in CA and hour after we hung up. I was texting him pleading him to talk to me but he just ignored me. He then started texting her.

He also didn't tell me that she had texted him 2 days before he left for the trip. They had been talking during our 2 month separation and on and off during our marriage. He agreed that it was inappropriate but he never did anything.

What do I do?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FWW-42, BH-37 
4kids - 2 mine 12 &14, 2 ours 2 & 5 
Over year EA/PA 
DDay 9/14/12 
T-12yrs, M-6yrs 
Begging for a second chance.


----------



## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Let him know that this hurts. You wanted to reconcile just like he did and since your relationship is vunarable because of your prior actions, you think this is a bad time to introduce any new male or female into your marriage.

I would be lying if I said any contact by an ex would not be tempting right now. But it is going to take his best effort to not suscumb to temptation.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

But really, after the countless hours of talking about honesty and boundaries and getting nailed to the wall (which I now agree with all of this), he is turning around and lying to me and turning to an old girlfriend? Maybe "we" just can't be fixed at this point. The affair I had just destroyed us.

He will be in CA until Wednesday and I have to imagine that they will meet up. Not that I believe anything physical will happen - doesn't matter to me anyway at this point. The lying and stepping across the boundaries we agreed on are already broken.

I have been wondering why a BS would stay given all the hurt and anguish caused by an A. Maybe in this case it just won't work.

Never doubted more than I do today. I'll just let it play out and won't reveal that I know anything until he returns.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I had a year long affair. I came back before DDAY. Have been doing everything to reconcile. NC was easy for me. I choose to come back to my husband.
> 
> My BH is away at a wedding in CA. Our Best Man's wedding - he didn't want me there since it would be too painful for him. Fine, OK get that.
> 
> ...


If I were in his shoes, you had a year-long A, it seems he had to really fight to snap you out of it and agree with boundaries, the minute he leaves you stop answering your phone for an hour and a half after the kids' bedtime (just enought time for a hookup with other man), I would be pretty suspicious. The same behavior you used during the affair. 

If your husband posted this from his point of view on this board, asking "do you think my wife was cheating?", you know three-quarters of the posters here would answer "YES!"

The fact that you were "home with the kids" wouldn't be that comforting to me. You lied and cheated for a year, if I were in his shoes I wouldn't put anything past you.

Him getting in touch with an old girlfriend is wrong no matter what, but this is why so few marriages can recover from an affair. The lack of trust makes even innocent coincidences look like a resumption of cheating. If you want to save your marriage, you have to put in the tough work when these issues come up. You've got to convince him you were not cheating and alleviate his concerns, then deal with his contacting ex-girlfriends when you trigger him.

If the situation had been reversed and he was the one who had had a year-long affair, would you have tried to reconcile with him?


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm curious about this also. This has been one of the hardest things for us to agree on - appropriate boundaries on both sides. During our ten years, hubby has had NUMEROUS close friendships with members of the opposite sex which make me uncomfortable. He doesn't feel this is inappropriate, as long as they don't talk sexually to each other, exchange nude pics or have sex.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Yes, I would have tried to reconcile if the positions were reversed. My story is a long one and I haven't posted it yet, but we separated over the summer and I chose to come back. I ended the A - NC easy - the OM and the A disgusts me really. 

I told him I wanted the boundaries. I wanted to do anything and everything to protect our marriage. I have really tried to do everything to try and rebuild trust.

But now I have trust issues too and he will blast me for that.

We spend 2 weeks together at the house before I told him I wanted to reconcile. This was before DDay (he suspected but didn't know for sure). He left for Labor Day weekend for the beach with friends and met a girl, walked her home and he says just kissed her goodnight. He lied about it when he got home but then came clean. Said he was confused and it was nice to have someone make him feel good.

Fine - I was ok with that. DDay came and it's been brutal since then. I found out he had been having private messages with old girlfriend on FB way before the affair. I also just found out that he was texting a waitress at a restaurant/bar we frequent last year while I was traveling. (he did not know of the affair at the time). And now the texting with the old girlfriend last night. Yes, right or wrong, now I have trust issues too.

Oh it just seems so incredibly ironic.


----------



## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Why did you wait 1.5 hours to answer the phone? Major trigger for him!
Why did he not take you too the wedding? Very suspicious to me if you are trying to R!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

It's going to be hard to make him behave.

Story of poor boundaires from before your affair and while the affair.
Regaining self confidence with women while separation (before DDay).
Lying.
Reinforced sense of entitlement once you were busted.
Ongoing displayal of poor boundaires and hiding in the aftermath and - huge red flag here - gaslighting. You are not crazy jelous, you are not paranoid, he's indeed crossing boundaires, the fact you might me surely projecting resulting un lack of trust don't invalidate he's not behaving well. On-off contact with old girlfriends is simply innapropiate, hiding it is very worrisome, slipery slope, wayward behavior. Contacting with her on your back before going to XGF's town nad firther contact while there would make suspicious eveyone.

To make him commit to admit it and change his ways is going to require a serious sit down and talk. Maybe a third party could help.
Are you guys going to MC?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Why did you wait 1.5 hours to answer the phone? Major trigger for him!
> Why did he not take you too the wedding? Very suspicious to me if you are trying to R!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He didn't want to take me to the wedding because he said it would be too hard to see me there as he stands next to the best man at our wedding taking vows. The wedding was at the city we fell in love with, also the city I spend 1 night with with the OM. I understood but was still heartbreaking.

I hadn't slept in 2 days so took a xanax when the kids went to bed and fell asleep. I didn't hear the phone ring. I answered about 1.5 hours later. I know it was a trigger and I tried to explain but he said he just couldn't believe I would do that to him (not answer). He hadn't called me in 24 hours.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

The OM lives in CA. We live on the east coast.


----------



## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Im sorry I still don't get why he wouldn't take you too the wedding if he is serious about
Your R!
Maybe he doesn't want to R afterall ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Acabado said:


> It's going to be hard to make him behave.
> 
> Story of poor boundaires from before your affair and while the affair.
> Regaining self confidence with women while separation (before DDay).
> ...



No, we haven't gone to MC. We decided to wait until after he could get over the affair. We did have problems before the A, but I feel if we talk about those things, it only justifies the A and I don't want to do that. Maybe MC if he decided to stay.

FWW-42, BH-37 
4kids - 2 mine 12 &14, 2 ours 2 & 5 
Over year EA/PA 
DDay 9/14/12 
T-12yrs, M-6yrs 
Begging for a second chance.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Im sorry I still don't get why he wouldn't take you too the wedding if he is serious about
> Your R!
> Maybe he doesn't want to R afterall ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think for a couple of reasons:

1. I think it would be incredibly difficult for him
2. Many people at the wedding know of the A so it would be embarassing.
3. He may not realize it, but he wants to punish me - consequence. I told him I wanted to be there with him.


----------



## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Im sorry I still don't get why he wouldn't take you too the wedding if he is serious about
> Your R!
> Maybe he doesn't want to R afterall ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not really. I certainly wouldn't want to take someone who trampled over my wedding vows to a wedding of someone else. The whole thing would just cast a pallor over everything. 

Taking a wayward to a wedding would make as much sense as taking a prostitute to an abstinence church retreat.


----------



## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I think for a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. I think it would be incredibly difficult for him
> 2. Many people at the wedding know of the A so it would be embarassing.
> 3. He may not realize it, but he wants to punish me - consequence. I told him I wanted to be there with him.


I agree with about all but the third. As a BS I can kinda slip into him. 

When BSs lash out or do things its rarely due to pure unadulterated spite. 

It comes from the black hole where his/her heart used to be. 

So its kinda selfish to think his decision revolved solely around your discontent, cause that really really downplays just how much it affects someone to get cheated on. 

Also after the liberties you took, I doubt your wants are at the top of his priorities list so soon into R.

As a WS you'll never understand it in its' entirety, but theres no pain quite like it.


----------



## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

You said he was facebooking and talking with other women before your affair started?

Also, who brings home the money? You or him?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Kasler said:


> I agree with about all but the third. As a BS I can kinda slip into him.
> 
> When BSs lash out or do things its rarely due to pure unadulterated spite.
> 
> ...



I'll politely disagree with you there. Sometimes the BS just want to hurt the WS. And really, what is wrong with that. You get punched and your first instinct is to punch back. That's naturnal. Had this discussion with my BH and he has told me exactly that on several occassions when he really said some nasty things to me. Really, I'm ok with that.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

It is insanity isn’t it. I can’t imagine how torn up this would make you feel. Hold onto it, remember it. It is just a taste of what you put your husband through. I know you won’t believe me, but you aren’t even close yet for the anxiety and torn up thoughts he is experiencing. 

To put it in perspective. At this point, you are just worried he will cheat on you. You know quite well he has every reason to do so; More than you had when you made your own choice. Yet, inside somewhere, you don’t know if he is or not and are questioning whether or not you are just falling apart with paranoia and worry. You can still tell yourself that while it doesn’t look good, you know this man, how he feels, and still feel that it is very possible he won’t make that choice and come home to you. 

He no longer has that same voice telling him it’s just his paranoia. It really is his reality that you did that. He can no longer look at you and know you made the “right choice”. 

What would help you, right now at this moment? Use those thoughts and ‘give’ to him whatever you need to do to help him recover from knowing what he now knows. What could he have told you to influence your own choice? Help him... Time to be strong and face the demons that are now in your marriage.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

I know it is just a taste - not even a comparison to the sordid details he has of my A. I had my first taste of it right after I told him I wanted to end the separation and he left the next day for the beach and met a girl, went to her house and kissed her goodnight (his story). I was watching the phone records in real time and did all the investigative stuff. I knew who she was before he ever got home the next night.

Oh the irony. If I were a BS I would be lying if I didn't take some satisfaction from this thread.

I am just going to sit here and watch the online phone records every 5 minutes. Torture myself yes - I suppose just a bit of what he went through.

I don't want to influence his choice. I was done trying to control the outcome of this marriage when I told him every sordid detail of the A.


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

We reap what we sow; it's as simple as that. You're just going to have to work harder at it.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> We reap what we sow; it's as simple as that.


It's sadly (?) untruth. People get away with murder everyday. Psychopaths die peacefully in their beds everyday. Little children die for no reason everyday...
Nathing makes senese. There's not such a thing as cosmic justice or "karma".


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

I don't know --- this all "sounds" much more complicated. I don't like it AT ALL that he didn't want to bring you to the wedding, especially since you're supposed to be working on reconciling. I could 'understand' it, if he wasn't texting his former gf, the need for space. But the various things you've found about him as well sound as if this could be a convenient excuse for a revenge affair. 

In our case there were places that were "robbed" from me because my WH took OW to places that meant a lot to me/us. We've slowly gone back to those places and reclaimed them. Confronting those places together and creating new memories there has been huge in the healing process. (Granted first time with one place in particular was a huge trigger.)

Your falling asleep after taking a Xanax when he was trying to call is probably one of the most tragic things about this because an hour and a half of his trying to reach you after your affair would cause any BS panic. Spiral galore. 

On this side of the street you have to do everything in your power to make amends to him and to work on yourself to become the kind of trustworthy person you'd want to be around. Like attracts like. 

Eventually you may need to bring up those phone records, but immediately, if you can substantiate your story -- any way to demonstrate you're telling the truth, do it. 

(I'm sure you already know this, so apologies if I'm out of place, but xanax and vino = not a good combo. Xanax in fact horrible for the addiction prone person.)


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I don't want to influence his choice. I was done trying to control the outcome of this marriage when I told him every sordid detail of the A.


Do you know how many of us wished our WS's had done that from the gitgo? That must have been so hard, but so good to do. Wow!


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Acabado said:


> It's sadly (?) untruth. People get away with murder everyday. Psychopaths die peacefully in their beds everyday. Little children die for no reason everyday...
> Nathing makes senese. There's not such a thing as cosmic justice or "karma".


I wasn't getting that spiritual on her. She is getting out of her husband exactly what she put into the marriage. I'm typing on an iPad now so I can't go into all the details that I want to go into, but for many reasons I don't have any sympathy for what she is going through. She's just going to have to do more heavy lifting to make things right and eat some crap in the process. Small price to pay after what she did, IMHO.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Well, the old girlfriend texed him an hour ago. Phone records are on a bit of a delay and they are on PST time so it's not even 11am yet. Considering they were texting until 2am, my BH is probably still sleeping.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> *He didn't want to take me to the wedding because he said it would be too hard to see me there as he stands next to the best man at our wedding taking vows. The wedding was at the city we fell in love with, also the city I spend 1 night with with the OM. I understood but was still heartbreaking.*I hadn't slept in 2 days so took a xanax when the kids went to bed and fell asleep. I didn't hear the phone ring. I answered about 1.5 hours later. I know it was a trigger and I tried to explain but he said he just couldn't believe I would do that to him (not answer). He hadn't called me in 24 hours.


THIS is total BS. Now BS in the world finds out their spouse has had an affair then WANTS to leave them unsupervised to go out of town. No. Something is wrong here. He didnt want you to go so he could hook up with this GF. The rest is an excuse.

Now, as for you not answering for an hour and a half. Thats just plain and simple - You DONT get it. You dont get the pain and suffering he is feeling. The insecurity. The wondering "OmG what is she doing?" the pure panic of a trigger. 

sounds to me like both of you have some issues. Both are cheaters. You both need IC and MC if you have any prayer of R.

Good luck.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> THIS is total BS. Now BS in the world finds out their spouse has had an affair then WANTS to leave them unsupervised to go out of town. No. Something is wrong here. He didnt want you to go so he could hook up with this GF. The rest is an excuse.
> 
> Now, as for you not answering for an hour and a half. Thats just plain and simple - You DONT get it. You dont get the pain and suffering he is feeling. The insecurity. The wondering "OmG what is she doing?" the pure panic of a trigger.
> 
> ...



We have 2 young children so it is also easier for me to stay home. I do not believe that he wanted to go and hook up with his old gf. Really don't. He doesn't need to go across the country for that - he's a great looking guy and had women hitting on him during our separation and passed.

I do get it about not answering. It wasn't a choice! Do you thing I would ever purposefully not answer knowing what that would do to him? Of course not. I pleaded and begged him to talk to me last night but he ignored my calls and texts.

And please don't call my husband a cheater.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> We have 2 young children so it is also easier for me to stay home. I do not believe that he wanted to go and hook up with his old gf. Really don't. He doesn't need to go across the country for that - he's a great looking guy and had women hitting on him during our separation and passed.
> 
> "I do get it about not answering. It wasn't a choice! Do you thing I would ever purposefully not answer knowing what that would do to him? Of course not. I pleaded and begged him to talk to me last night but he ignored my calls and texts."
> 
> And please don't call my husband a cheater.


so question then, does he tell you about these texts? does he show them to you? 
You said:

I do get it about not answering. It wasn't a choice*! Do you thing I would ever purposefully not answer knowing what that would do to him? *Of course not. I pleaded and begged him 
to talk to me last night but he ignored my calls and texts

I have NO idea what you would and wouldnt do. Nor does your H for that matter. You cheated on him. right? I have no idea if you'd 'knowingly' do something ELSE to hurt him.

If you dont think he's cheating then what is the issue? why are you concerned? If you think all of his communication with her is above board what is the problem???? 

And you didnt say you didnt go b/c of children- You said you didnt go b/c he didnt want you there. I am merely responding to the things you have written.

If I am misinformed please show me where you have told us that he shows you these texts, where you said you didnt go b/c you had young children...


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

We could have had his parents come and watch the kids. It was HIS choice for me not to go. It would have been complicated for me to go, but it certainly could have been arranged.

Yes, you are right, he does not know what I would or wouldn't do. I have been completely transparent with him to try and rebuild trust. Me not answering was a huge step backwards. Stupid me.

Cheating is not just the physical act as you well know. We agreed to boundaries and one of them was NC with his old GF. Any communication with her is not above board. That is the problem.

Could he cheat? Certainly. Given his state of mind and the trigger from last night he is certainly vulnerable. Could he meet her for lunch or dinner, yes. Do I think he would physically do anything, I don't think so. But hell, what the hell do I know. The point is he is turning to someone that is going to threaten our R at a very vulnerable time. My concern is that he doesn't feel he needs to protect our marriage. Maybe rightly so, but if that's the case, it's already over.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

It almost sounds like he is trying to use your affair to justify his actions in his head. 

You said he has talked to this girl on and off through your marriage? And they were talking prior to the trip?

Don't underestimate him being vulnerable and her consoling him. And the fact they were discussing things prior to the trip and it was HIS decision that you not go...and then you didn't answer the phone and now he is triggering...its almost the perfect storm.

Even if he doesn't cheat, how are you going to handle the broken boundaries?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

He didn't tell me about the text from her before he left. I haven't spoken with him today so don't know if he will tell me about the texts last night. She texted him again 1 1/2 ago. He hasn't replied yet but he's probably still sleeping as he is on vacation with nothing to do until he leaves tomorrow night.


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

I think part of the problem here is you are looking at it all from the position of anger. I'm sure he showed you plenty of it. I can say as a BS I showed my W rage. Pure rage. That isn't what was inside. Inside I was wounded with a pain she deliberately inflicted on me. It was a hurt I did not expect. I wasn't angry I was hurting. Yes she saw rage, but that was only how my hurt manifested because she caused the pain that I felt.

Directly after my wifes EA which was only a month and a half, not a year, I can say when women showed interest I had new thoughts. I never strayed on my 20 year M but I was tempted after her EA. I would think "maybe she would love me the way my wife should have" or "maybe I could start over with this one and not have an M tainted by an A" or "maybe this one would never make me her second choice like my W did".

I still haven't strayed but in the last 4 days 3 women have given me their number. Someone tell me why my marriage should mean anything to me when it meant so little to my wife.

Right now he not only doesn't trust you, he feels like your garbage.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I’m not taking any satisfaction from this thread at all. It is a mess and I do feel for you. 

It also isn’t “unique”; Most BS’s have serious considerations of “finding acceptance” elsewhere. I think you are focused in the wrong area though. I feel like you are looking for advice on how to “affair-proof” your marriage and keep your husband faithful. That time has gone and your own actions made affairs in your marriage not only a reality, but placed your husband in a situation where he has to make them “accepted in his marriage to you” just to remain married. 

Basically, there is no reason you can provide him that he can’t counterpoint with your own actions. It would also stir up a ton of resentment. So, he has all he needs to “justify” an affair. You can’t control this. Make that your mantra: “I cannot control his choices!”. What you can do however is use your own experience to help him. At some point, you too had to justify your own affairs. You believed you had every reason in the world to do this. What, if anything, could your husband have done to influence that choice? Lead here and be strong.... I believe your best plan of action is really letting him know how it affected you personally and changed who you now see in the mirror. It should not be a positive thing. It is also something he can’t counterpoint if you truly have been “wrecked” by your own decisions. Let him learn through your mistakes without making them himself.

This works for remorseful waywards because they do feel these things. For non-remorseful waywards, you will be screwed... Because the picture you are painting was that you can do this and come out the other end just as whole along with a lot more fun in the middle. That is how he’ll see it because that is the example you have given him.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> It almost sounds like he is trying to use your affair to justify his actions in his head.
> 
> You said he has talked to this girl on and off through your marriage? And they were talking prior to the trip?
> 
> ...


They were IM on FB here and there throughout the last few years - maybe 4 or 5. One particular thread was hurtful when he said any man would be lucky to have her etc about 2 months before my A started (I didn't know at the time). I confronted him when I found out a month ago and he said he was just trying to make her feel good after her 10 year relationship ended. I then asked why she was still a friend on FB after we talked about boundaries and he took her off. I don't think he has had any contact with her since before I came back in mid-August.

They were not talking before the trip that I know of. She texted him a day before he was supposed to leave. She knew he was going out there for the wedding since they talked about it while we were separated. He did not respond as far as I know.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Racer said:


> I’m not taking any satisfaction from this thread at all. It is a mess and I do feel for you.
> 
> It also isn’t “unique”; Most BS’s have serious considerations of “finding acceptance” elsewhere. I think you are focused in the wrong area though. I feel like you are looking for advice on how to “affair-proof” your marriage and keep your husband faithful. That time has gone and your own actions made affairs in your marriage not only a reality, but placed your husband in a situation where he has to make them “accepted in his marriage to you” just to remain married.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to control him at all. That's why I'm not going to interfere. I stopped trying to control our marriage when I told him all the details of the A. 

I'm not looking for advice to affair-proof my marriage. I'm not trying to stop what is happening out there. Just helps to type while I wait.

He controls what happens now.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> I wasn't getting that spiritual on her. She is getting out of her husband exactly what she put into the marriage.


So... did BH get out from her wife what he put into the marriage? Was being cheated on "reaping what he sowed"? Was it cosmic justice? The reasoning doesn't stand. Waywards argue this all the time, it's called shifting the blame. 
It's not I don't know where BH is. I was there not that time ago. I hope his decisions from now on preserve his self respect. Personal responsability goes both ways. Always did. Being cheated on doesn't absolve you from anything. That's, of course, just my opinion.


ETA
Just read they both agreed the boundiares: No exes at FB. He just sh1t on it and hid (till hiding) it.

Racer is dead on.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

UnforgivableWife said:


> They were IM on FB here and there throughout the last few years - maybe 4 or 5. One particular thread was hurtful when he said any man would be lucky to have her etc about 2 months before my A started (I didn't know at the time). I confronted him when I found out a month ago and he said he was just trying to make her feel good after her 10 year relationship ended. I then asked why she was still a friend on FB after we talked about boundaries and he took her off. I don't think he has had any contact with her since before I came back in mid-August.
> 
> They were not talking before the trip that I know of. She texted him a day before he was supposed to leave. She knew he was going out there for the wedding since they talked about it while we were separated. He did not respond as far as I know.



Been waiting to chime in. My opinion is that he didn't want you to do to the wedding for two, somewhat related reasons.

1) DDay was just too recent still, and he's not fully sure he wants to reconcile with you quite yet.  Someone who was 100% committed to R would have brought his wife and shown a unified front. You'd be hysterical bonding (lots of sex), and inseparable.

2) He is leaving the door open with the Ex GF. Not planning to cheat, per se, but lowering his boundaries in preparation for the possibility. He texted her beforehand because he knew he would have access to her without you around. 

Now, he may not "do" anything, but he's surely left himself ripe for the opportunity.

Also, UnforgivableWife, you do know that cheating comes in forms other than physical contact, right? He did cheat before - not in the same way you did, but he has had what sounds like at least two emotional affairs. AND he "kissed" a girl goodnight. How is that not cheating?


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> We agreed to boundaries and one of them was NC with his old GF. Any communication with her is not above board. That is the problem.


Whaaaaat???!!! Nah-ah. Nope. What you did is AWFUL but it is NEVER an excuse to do the same -- sure folk do it all the time but as you know we're each responsible for our own actions. 

And texting until 2am with her!? Noooo. Not good. I know you want to repair your marriage --- are you in MC yet? People HAVE recovered from things like this before but it takes both. 

You can't sit on this info. I'm so, so sorry. He will try to use your affair (understandible) as an excuse, but it's NOT justifiable. 

I am so, so sorry. 

Because I tend to blow things up on the earlier side I would probably be texting him asking him how that N/C with x-girlfriend is going? That' doesn't mean it's the right thing to do....cuz I've done a lot of that.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Been waiting to chime in. My opinion is that he didn't want you to do to the wedding for two, somewhat related reasons.
> 
> 1) DDay was just too recent still, and he's not fully sure he wants to reconcile with you quite yet. Someone who was 100% committed to R would have brought his wife and shown a unified front. You'd be hysterical bonding (lots of sex), and inseparable.
> 
> ...


She texted him the day before he left. He didn't respond.

He may not be 100% committed to R. He put my wedding rings back on my finger the night before he left. We have had tons of HB and have been inseparable until this trip.

He kissed the girl while we were separated.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Also, UnforgivableWife, you do know that cheating comes in forms other than physical contact, right? He did cheat before - not in the same way you did, but he has had what sounds like at least two emotional affairs. AND he "kissed" a girl goodnight. How is that not cheating?


Agreed with the above post except for this. They were separated, she already left him, he was dating after his wife left, they only talked about possibly getting back together the day before, basicaly a friendly talk. OP also pointed out he already suspected OM even she lied about it (by omission at least). I asume the reasons she gave to leave were all put square at his feet, why should he think they were to bet back?
Also there's no reason to believe old EAs, just innapropiate contact with exes, poor boundaires.


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

There is never a time when an A is justified, but please see my other post in this thread so you understand just how volnerable anyone can be after an A is discovered. I revealed very private thoughts just so you can see the inner workings of a BS after an A is discovered. 

It doesn't mean he's doing anything, but he is crossing lines to leave the door open at the very least.

I don't feel good reading your posts. It's sad to read how these things play out. I hope for both your sakes nothing happens.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Sorry -- a bit of a knee-jerk reaction from me. I apologize, and I'm not sure what I just wrote is good advice. Because honestly, you're on the WS side. But I have to tell you it really, really doesn't sound good all the way around. When he returns, if you're not already in marriage counseling, can you find a counselor who specializes in infidelity and read Not Just Friends?. It sounds like there is some heavy-duty work that needs to be done on both ends of this. Don't give up yet...but, this will take both of you fully-vested and getting the support you need.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Agreed with the above post except for this. They were separated, she already left him, he was dating after his wife left, they only talked about possibly getting back together the day before, basicaly a friendly talk. OP also pointed out he already suspected OM even she lied about it (by omission at least). I asume the reasons she gave to leave were all put square at his feet, why should he think they were to bet back?
> Also there's no reason to believe old EAs, just innapropiate contact with exes, poor boundaires.


We were living together, having sex and doing tons of talking for two weeks. I then told him I wanted to come back. He left the next day for the beach because he said he was so confused and never thought I would want him back. I don't blame him for what happened. Just ****ty timing since it was the day after I told him I wanted to R.

And you are right, just inappropriate contact, no EA. Definitely poor boundaries.

My BS is a good man.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass is a must read for both of you.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

wow. Im getting more and more confused. So if youre saying he isnt responding to her what is the issue? 

And btw, I agree he has had at very least a couple of emotional affairs. 

EA= cheater.

Im not trying to bash you OP but you've got to start seeing things for what they are. He is likely at very least emotionally involved with exGF. At very least.

You have cheated. He is ripe for a RA it seems like. So what are you goint to do now?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

The old GF texted him the day before he left - last Wednesday. He never responded. We had an argument last night when he triggered because I didn't answer his calls for 1.5 hours. My fault entirely. An hour after our argument he texted the old GF and they texted back and forth for an hour until 2am. She texted him at 9:30 their time this morning. So far he has not responded. I haven't heard from him either. He hasn't called or texted anyone so far (phone logs are on a bit of a delay) so my guess is that he is still maybe sleeping. 

I'm going to sit and watch the call logs. What else am I to do? I am not going to try and influence this. After everything we have been through and me trying to control everything, whatever will be will be. He has the right to make his own decisions. He has the control.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

UnforgivableWife said:


> She texted him the day before he left. He didn't respond.
> 
> He may not be 100% committed to R. He put my wedding rings back on my finger the night before he left. We have had tons of HB and have been inseparable until this trip.
> 
> He kissed the girl while we were separated.


Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

But he certainly is texting her now. His boundaries are purposefully lowered. It was very likely one of the reasons he didn't want you to go. It was in his head, if not his texting fingers.

Given his past behavior, lowering his boundaries isn't exactly a new thing.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

I honestly wouldn't blame him for doing anything right now. Why not - I did it for over a year and killed the woman he married and the once in a lifetime love he thought he had. He owes me nothing.

You know, this is why I posted a question about why would a BS ever reconcile. Read my post. Funny I get hit with this the very next day.

Karma is a *****.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

THere is NO excuse for cheating. NONE. If he doesnt want to R, he can choose to D you. Until such a time, he is married and needs to act accordingly.

NO excuse for cheating. Absolutely NONE.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Okay, thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> But he certainly is texting her now. His boundaries are purposefully lowered. It was very likely one of the reasons he didn't want you to go. It was in his head, if not his texting fingers.
> 
> Given his past behavior, lowering his boundaries isn't exactly a new thing.


Agreed. And ditto on the clearing things up. That's a little better, but still not great. Did she know beforehand he was headed to her neck of the woods for the wedding?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Agreed. And ditto on the clearing things up. That's a little better, but still not great. Did she know beforehand he was headed to her neck of the woods for the wedding?


Yes. He talked about it with her over the summer. He was going to take her but then his mom talked him out of it. Kind of like a "been there done that" talk.

She knew he was going to be there that's why she texted him the day before he left. He didn't tell me about it and I didn't disclose that I knew. He didn't respond and that was good enough for me at the time.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Broken at 20 said:


> You said he was facebooking and talking with other women before your affair started?
> 
> Also, who brings home the money? You or him?


Just a few times with his old GF. Inappropriate yes, but not an EA.

I am the sole breadwinner.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yes. He talked about it with her over the summer. He was going to take her but then his mom talked him out of it. Kind of like a "been there done that" talk.
> 
> She knew he was going to be there that's why she texted him the day before he left. He didn't tell me about it and I didn't disclose that I knew. He didn't respond and that was good enough for me at the time.


WAIT! So you knew it was on his radar, at least at some point, to take HER to this wedding and you let him sell you some story about "its too painful seeing you there"......

Come on OP, are you serious?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Yes. I believe him 100%. Well, I did anyway. I don't know anything anymore.

Just checked the phone logs. No return texts from him that I know of but none to anyone else either, including me.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yes. I believe him 100%. Well, I did anyway. I don't know anything anymore.
> 
> Just checked the phone logs. No return texts from him that I know of but none to anyone else either, including me.


Here's a thought???? Maybe he is with her? Is that possible?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Here's a thought???? Maybe he is with her? Is that possible?


It sure is, but I don't think so. I'm tempted to call him and see if he answers but like I said, I don't want to control or influence any of this.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Hell, he may be reading this whole thing since he knows I am a member here.


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Hell, he may be reading this whole thing since he knows I am a member here.


He may be. If he is it might actually be good news for you.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> It sure is, but I don't think so. I'm tempted to call him and see if he answers but like I said, I don't want to control or influence any of this.


I dont understand. why dont you want to influence this? In all my time Ive never seen a WS say "I am not going to intervene. If he/she cheats, so be it" ....is that what youre hoping for?


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I dont understand. why dont you want to influence this? In all my time Ive never seen a WS say "I am not going to intervene. If he/she cheats, so be it" ....is that what youre hoping for?


I think she is being a victem to her own guilt.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> I dont understand. why dont you want to influence this? In all my time Ive never seen a WS say "I am not going to intervene. If he/she cheats, so be it" ....is that what youre hoping for?


I think she feels that she deserves it. She is feeling very low about her worth in this marriage - that's crystal clear.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> I think she feels that she deserves it. She is feeling very low about her worth in this marriage - that's crystal clear.


Ok. fair enough. I can get that. My apologies then.

so with that being said- OP you cant stand idly by and watch your house explode. again, there is no excuse for cheating. You do NOT deserve to be cheated on. NO one does. 

whats your plan?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Called him. Recounted the great time at the wedding and how much it sucks to be in the city we fell in love at knowing I cheated on him. No mention of the texts. He is going to go to dinner with the groom and his family.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

I asked him if he wanted to talk about last night and he said no.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Called him. Recounted the great time at the wedding and how much it sucks to be in the city we fell in love at knowing I cheated on him. No mention of the texts. He is going to go to dinner with the groom and his family.


when does he come home?


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Called him. Recounted the great time at the wedding and how much it sucks to be in the city we fell in love at knowing I cheated on him. No mention of the texts. He is going to go to dinner with the groom and his family.


Groom isn't on his honeymoon?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

He leaves tomorrow night on a redeye. He will be with the groom and his family tonight, but then is free until he leaves.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Groom isn't on his honeymoon?


No, they leave tomorrow morning.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Im very concerned that he has not mentioned the texts, that he didnt want to talk about last night, that he possibly used and exGF for his emotional needs last night and he's got a whole 24 more hours....

Seems odd to stay 2 days AFTER the wedding???


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

And you are positive of where he is staying while out there? 

I really wouldn't be surprised if the dinner with the groom is actually dinner with the ex


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Im very concerned that he has not mentioned the texts, that he didnt want to talk about last night, that he possibly used and exGF for his emotional needs last night and he's got a whole 24 more hours....
> 
> Seems odd to stay 2 days AFTER the wedding???


Tickets purchased with my FF miles and had to deal with blackout dates. He wanted to stay a few days anyway. He left SF to be with me on the east coast. I don't believe for a second that he had plans to be with the old GF. Not naive. I just know him.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> Im very concerned that he has not mentioned the texts, that he didnt want to talk about last night, that he possibly used and exGF for his emotional needs last night and he's got a whole 24 more hours....
> 
> Seems odd to stay 2 days AFTER the wedding???


I agree- that's odd. 

OP, I believe once he gets home you should ask him if he connected with the XGF while he was there. See what he says.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> And you are positive of where he is staying while out there?
> 
> I really wouldn't be surprised if the dinner with the groom is actually dinner with the ex


No, the groom was the best man at our wedding and a friend of mine. He's not lying about that. Now after dinner or tomorrow is a different story. We shall see.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

UnforgivableWife said:


> He controls what happens now.


No, he only controls what happens now if you both are following what you BOTH agreed to. Once he's overstepped his boundaries (which he has) he is no longer in the driver seat.

Time for a sit down and time for both parties to come clean at this point. Him not taking you, he had a valid reason, was not an option IMO. Others have said it, if you both are really working on R, then you should have gone also and he should have allowed you to go.

Red flags,

He didn't want you to go, ex-gf texted him a few days prior to leaving. Ex-Gf was still texting him when he was there. You've found out he's been texting a waitress, kissed another woman (so he says)

This will never work, at this pace you'll either just cheat again or say F it and leave. If you want R that much, both of you have to come clean and start all over again.

Any marriage is fixable as long as both parties are willing to work together and find a middle ground.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

:iagree:


canttrustu said:


> Im very concerned that he has not mentioned the texts, that he didnt want to talk about last night, that he possibly used and exGF for his emotional needs last night and he's got a whole 24 more hours....
> 
> Seems odd to stay 2 days AFTER the wedding???


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

cheatinghubby said:


> No, he only controls what happens now if you both are following what you BOTH agreed to. Once he's overstepped his boundaries (which he has) he is no longer in the driver seat.
> 
> Time for a sit down and time for both parties to come clean at this point. Him not taking you, he had a valid reason, was not an option IMO. Others have said it, if you both are really working on R, then you should have gone also and he should have allowed you to go.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Very well put!


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

I know you are right but if I bring this stuff up he will blast me for saying that I am just trying to justify my A. That I am trying to say "you did it too" and that makes my A ok. I'm screwed either way.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I know you are right but if I bring this stuff up he will blast me for saying that I am just trying to justify my A. That I am trying to say "you did it too" and that makes my A ok. I'm screwed either way.


wow. Sorry but this doesn't seem like true R...been there done that.


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I know you are right but if I bring this stuff up he will blast me for saying that I am just trying to justify my A. That I am trying to say "you did it too" and that makes my A ok. I'm screwed either way.


It needs to be said no matter what the outcome. Or you could let him drag you through the mud for a year if that makes you feel better about yourself.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Well, he texted her back 2 hours ago and she texted him back immediately. God I hate the time delay on AT&T.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Well, he texted her back 2 hours ago and she texted him back immediately. God I hate the time delay on AT&T.


Stop checking, it's going to drive you insane. You know already at this point, print it out and get ready to confront IMO.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Well, he texted her back 2 hours ago and she texted him back immediately. God I hate the time delay on AT&T.


can you call him and ask him to come home??? NOw. This is your marriage, he is vulnerable. Its a mistake, a big one, to put him within her grasp. I know you "know" your H. But he is hurt, humiliated and vulnerable. YOu dont "know" this husband. Better safe than sorry.

I think at very least this could take a turn on circumstance and become an affair. That is the very least. At most, its what he planned before he left. In any event, you cannot just sit idolly. Can you get a flight there???? 

Dont underestimate the danger here....


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Yeah right. I'll be checking it all night. Who in their right mind could resist?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yeah right. I'll be checking it all night. Who in their right mind could resist?


I agree. I would call him and tell him to think twice before he does this. I really really would do at very least that. And is GF married???


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> can you call him and ask him to come home??? NOw. This is your marriage, he is vulnerable. Its a mistake, a big one, to put him within her grasp. I know you "know" your H. But he is hurt, humiliated and vulnerable. YOu dont "know" this husband. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> I think at very least this could take a turn on circumstance and become an affair. That is the very least. At most, its what he planned before he left. In any event, you cannot just sit idolly. Can you get a flight there????
> 
> Dont underestimate the danger here....


He has a choice, just like I did. I can't go (kids) and wouldn't anyway. I am not going to ask him to come home early. In my mind, he has already crossed our boundaries. If he actually meets up with her and cheats - what difference does it make? He is not protecting our marriage anymore and that is my fault. Oh this is going to be a night from hell!


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I agree. I would call him and tell him to think twice before he does this. I really really would do at very least that. And is GF married???


No GF is not married.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

I am wondering if its bordering an EA on his part...if he refuses to go NC with her whenever you do talk to him, your marriage is in serious trouble


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

UnforgivableWife said:


> No GF is not married.


They never f*cking are, are they?


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Well I guess this tortuous waiting game is your pennance. I can buy that. But you need to confront him when he gets home.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> He has a choice, just like I did. I can't go (kids) and wouldn't anyway. I am not going to ask him to come home early. In my mind, he has already crossed our boundaries. If he actually meets up with her and cheats - what difference does it make? He is not protecting our marriage anymore and that is my fault. Oh this is going to be a night from hell!


NO. NO. and NO. Look I am a BS. My H had a year long EA. If I chose to cheat tomorrow- thats on ME. I have other choices. IF I dont want to R. I can D. I can suffer in silence. But I can NOT cheat and say its on anyone other than myself. Two wrongs do not make a right. EVER. 

And what difference does it make??? Theres a big ass difference in sending a few texts and fvcking the life out of her... You know that.

You cant be the victim here. Not now. Now is where you show what youre made of. 

so ok, you cant/wont go. how about you call and ask him to give some serious thought to his actions right now. Tell him you were wrong and own THAT. BUT you cannot own anything HE does. 

We are only responsible for ourselves. But, you have a unique opportunity to head this off possibly by calling your H and being his wife....


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

He is hurting and most likely not himself. If he does go too far he will only be adding to your pain and his. I'm forced to wonder if on some level you are hoping he does go through with it. It won't make you even. It will only make things worse and make you both wrong.

This thread is triggering me for some reason so I'm out of it. Good luck. Please at least try to do this right. Don't insist on becomming a BS yourself.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> I am wondering if its bordering an EA on his part...if he refuses to go NC with her whenever you do talk to him, your marriage is in serious trouble


No, I don't think he will have any problem agreeing to it. 

The problem is that he has blasted me for 2 months straight about lying by ommission, honesty, trust, boundaries, betrayal, etc. All of which I agree with. I have had to take a hard look at who I was and I sucked. I only had the one A, but I never had any boundaries because I thought our love was stronger than anything. I was wrong and I now know that I am responsible for protecting it period. Never putting myself in a position to let someone else make me feel anything. To build some character and integrity and be who I know I can be.

That said, he understands this all too. The fact that he is secretly texting her tells me that he doesn't feel like he owes me anything. That is the scary part. And maybe he doesn't at this point. Again, I don't blame him, I just don't want to be in a false R. I have put my kids through hell with the separation and my 2 teenage girls are just starting to have hope again. Another separation or divorce will kill them. But God, I have no one to blame but dear old me. Oh God I didn't think it could get any worse. Stupid me!


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> NO. NO. and NO. Look I am a BS. My H had a year long EA. If I chose to cheat tomorrow- thats on ME. I have other choices. IF I dont want to R. I can D. I can suffer in silence. But I can NOT cheat and say its on anyone other than myself. Two wrongs do not make a right. EVER.
> 
> And what difference does it make??? Theres a big ass difference in sending a few texts and fvcking the life out of her... You know that.
> 
> ...


Kind of lost the right to be his wife when I ****ed another man. No, I'm going to let this play out.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> No, I don't think he will have any problem agreeing to it.
> 
> The problem is that he has blasted me for 2 months straight about lying by ommission, honesty, trust, boundaries, betrayal, etc. All of which I agree with. I have had to take a hard look at who I was and I sucked. I only had the one A, but I never had any boundaries because I thought our love was stronger than anything. I was wrong and I now know that I am responsible for protecting it period. Never putting myself in a position to let someone else make me feel anything. To build some character and integrity and be who I know I can be.
> 
> That said, he understands this all too. The fact that he is secretly texting her tells me that he doesn't feel like he owes me anything. That is the scary part. And maybe he doesn't at this point. Again, I don't blame him, I just don't want to be in a false R. I have put my kids through hell with the separation and my 2 teenage girls are just starting to have hope again. Another separation or divorce will kill them. But God, I have no one to blame but dear old me. Oh God I didn't think it could get any worse. Stupid me!


Please, for the love of God, stop being a Martyr.
wringing your hands will do nothing. whats stopping you from calling him??? Another woman is trying to get your H's pants down....

Wake up here. You can feel sorry for yourself later.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Ovid said:


> He is hurting and most likely not himself. If he does go too far he will only be adding to your pain and his. I'm forced to wonder if on some level you are hoping he does go through with it. It won't make you even. It will only make things worse and make you both wrong.
> 
> This thread is triggering me for some reason so I'm out of it. Good luck. Please at least try to do this right. Don't insist on becomming a BS yourself.


Maybe deep down inside I feel I deserve it. Not to be even, God no matter what he did that would not make us close to even.

Just so I can feel a bit of what I have done to the man I promised myself to and ripped his ****ing heart out.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Kind of lost the right to be his wife when I ****ed another man. No, I'm going to let this play out.


Ok then. Im out.

Good luck.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Please, for the love of God, stop being a Martyr.
> wringing your hands will do nothing. whats stopping you from calling him??? Another woman is trying to get your H's pants down....
> 
> Wake up here. You can feel sorry for yourself later.


I did call him. Just didn't tell him I knew. Not being a Martyr, just not going to try and control it.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Listen to canttrustyou. Good words of advice. 

And I'm afraid, from here, you are being a martyr. You will regret your inaction if that is the path you choose. 

Do what canttrustyou says.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Gotta go make dinner. I'll update later tonight. 

I will want advice on how to confront him when he gets home without making him blow up at me and just talk to me.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

You have two choices -- Either confront him now and let him know you know he's in touch with EX-girlfriend. At the least, if he still chooses to see her it will spoil some of the fun. You need to talk to him. Let him know you are not okay with it. He can blame you, bring up your affair, and that's all work that needs to be done obviously, later, but right now, if you bring up the GF at least you expose the possibility and that conciousness is there!!! (And down the road he can't say, "if you knew why didn't you do anything about it?") 

Or.... you can wait until he returns and face the possibility of them going physical and dealing with him having that xtra bond with her. Much harder to break from once the deed is done, as we all know. Yes, of course he could get together with her and nothing happen. (and reindeer fly) But you'll have a harder time dealing with his denial when he returns, but then I guess some would say you protect your source/ability to check the phone records.

Just a couple of thoughts


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Gotta go make dinner. I'll update later tonight.
> 
> I will want advice on how to confront him when he gets home without making him blow up at me and just talk to me.


If he wants to hide anything IMO this won't happen. He'll blow up at you or get defensive or testy. Just how it goes down.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Gotta go make dinner. I'll update later tonight.
> 
> I will want advice on how to confront him when he gets home without making him blow up at me and just talk to me.


He will blow up because he got caught. He has been projecting his own guilt and deceitful actions onto you the past 2 months. He has been lying and crossing boundaries he knows is wrong since you both talked and agreed upon those boundaries. He knows he is in the wrong...now if he cares or not that is the question.

My stbxh said and did the same crap in the months before i left. Crossing boundaries and braking "rules" that we both agreed upon. After infidelity, those rules will always be there, yet he felt he was the exception and after 5 years he can do whatever he wants with whoever he wants. well i guess he can, just without me in the picture.

Yes, you screwed up, but that doesn't give him the right to not follow the boundaries he agreed with you on. You need to nip this in the butt now.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Please, for the love of God, stop being a Martyr.
> wringing your hands will do nothing. whats stopping you from calling him??? Another woman is trying to get your H's pants down....
> 
> Wake up here. You can feel sorry for yourself later.


Let me ask you this, if he can't make the right decision on his own now, what happens when I'm not looking over his shoulder and telling him to not cheat? Do I have to remind him, my BS, that cheating is wrong? Come on. He's a grown man and knows right from wrong. I'm just letting him make the choice for himself without me hovering over his shoulder. With all do respect, not sure what is wrong with that or how that makes me a Martyr.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Let me ask you this, if he can't make the right decision on his own now, what happens when I'm not looking over his shoulder and telling him to not cheat? Do I have to remind him, my BS, that cheating is wrong? Come on. He's a grown man and knows right from wrong. I'm just letting him make the choice for himself without me hovering over his shoulder. With all do respect, not sure what is wrong with that or how that makes me a Martyr.


He may know right from wrong but that doesn't matter if the person has very poor boundaries...you should know that, personally. 

when the boundaries are breeched its much easier to keep going down the "wrong" path. And it sounds like your H has always had boundary issues in the past. Not only that, but he is throwing your mistake in your face to justify his actions!!! And you are taking it. That's what makes me upset...he is trying to justify and blame even though HE is the one breaking the "rules" and has no clue you know about the texts. He is trying to rewrite things to justify whatever he is doing with his ex.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

She texted him again 2 hours ago. Oh the time delay - ugghh!


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Another thought - don't you wish someone had given you a hard slap of reality before your affair? Do that for him. THAT is what a loving wife would do.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> He may know right from wrong but that doesn't matter if the person has very poor boundaries...you should know that, personally.
> 
> when the boundaries are breeched its much easier to keep going down the "wrong" path. And it sounds like your H has always had boundary issues in the past. Not only that, but he is throwing your mistake in your face to justify his actions!!! And you are taking it. That's what makes me upset...he is trying to justify and blame even though HE is the one breaking the "rules" and has no clue you know about the texts. He is trying to rewrite things to justify whatever he is doing with his ex.


We HAD poor boundaries. Boundaries, honesty, trust is all we've been talking about for 2 months.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

And now they are texting away. Not even 4pm there yet. I'm in for a long night.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

This thread, how ironic.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> We HAD poor boundaries. Boundaries, honesty, trust is all we've been talking about for 2 months.


If it was had, he wouldn't be contracting her, period, especially as much as he has!


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Just talked to him. He is definitely lying - doesn't want to talk about last night. He is planning to see her, I just know it now. 

And yes, how incredibly ironic. And how incredibly sad. I really thought we had a chance at R. I know he has tried and he really wanted it, he just can't forgive me and is moving on, even if he doesn't recognize it yet.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Just talked to him. He is definitely lying - doesn't want to talk about last night. He is planning to see her, I just know it now.
> 
> And yes, how incredibly ironic. And how incredibly sad. I really thought we had a chance at R. I know he has tried and he really wanted it, he just can't forgive me and is moving on, even if he doesn't recognize it yet.


Oh man UFW, really? You didnt say "so talked to your gf??""" wtF?
Just gonna watch him roll down the track, eh?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Oh man UFW, really? You didnt say "so talked to your gf??""" wtF?
> Just gonna watch him roll down the track, eh?


No, I'm giving him the choice. I'm not his mother. He is a grown man. After the past 2 months of endless hours of talking about honesty, lying by omission, boundaries, etc. And I'm supposed to ask him if he talked to his old GF?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Just talked to him. He said he was walking to his hotel. It was pretty quiet though on the streets of SF - total BS I think. We shall see. He said he would call me when he gets there. I'll call him hotel room and he won't answer. I know this game all too well.


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> No, I'm giving him the choice. I'm not his mother. He is a grown man. After the past 2 months of endless hours of talking about honesty, lying by omission, boundaries, etc. And I'm supposed to ask him if he talked to his old GF?


Yes, that is what a spouse who loves her husband would do. Not sit back so she can play the martyr after.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Yup, just sitting back enjoying myself here knowing I destroyed my marriage and the man I love. God I feel great.

With all due respect, this has nothing to do with being a martyr. What do you think the 180 is all about. Begging someone to not cheat on you or letting play out and moving on?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yup, just sitting back enjoying myself here knowing I destroyed my marriage and the man I love. God I feel great.
> 
> With all due respect, this has nothing to do with being a martyr. What do you think the 180 is all about. Begging someone to not cheat on you or letting play out and moving on?


WHAT??????You cheated and youre doing the 180 on HIM????

Is this the twilight zone???


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

no. Just trying to explain why I do not want to interfere.

Why do I have the right to control it now? He knows everything. He knows right from wrong. So if I tell him and he blows up like I know he will, don't you think that he would feel then more justified? He is going to hit the roof when he finds out that I know.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

I think he has helped you feel so guilty about your actions that whatever he does will be ok. What do you plan to do if he cheats? I mean he has already broken boundaries and is lying...


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Good question. Hmmm. I don't know. I feel like it's deserved in a sick way, so am I ok with it? Yup. The part I don't think I could forgive is that I led him to such a dark place that he would not be true to himself. That was my worry all along through this R. That he would end up hating himself by staying with me. That by staying with me he would lose who he is. Looks like that might be just what is happening.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> no. Just trying to explain why I do not want to interfere.
> 
> Why do I have the right to control it now? He knows everything. He knows right from wrong. So if I tell him and he blows up like I know he will, don't you think that he would feel then more justified? He is going to hit the roof when he finds out that I know.


No you said you were running the 180. 

*With all due respect, this has nothing to do with being a martyr. What do you think the 180 is all about. Begging someone to not cheat on you or letting play out and moving on?*

can you explain what the 180 has to do with YOU not interfering with him having sex with someone who is NOT you???

You dont run a 180 on a BS. You know that right?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Well, he's with her now I just know it. He's shooting me to VM.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

ok going to do what you all said. I'm going to text them both. Just need to figure out what I am going to say.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Good question. Hmmm. I don't know. I feel like it's deserved in a sick way, so am I ok with it? Yup. *The part I don't think I could forgive is that I led him to such a dark place that he would not be true to himself. * That was my worry all along through this R. That he would end up hating himself by staying with me. That by staying with me he would lose who he is. Looks like that might be just what is happening.


But you didn't lead him to that dark place. That dark place was already inside him. He has already kissed another woman and crossed other boundaries before you cheated. While you were married. That doesn't sound like someone who was ever true to themselves other than their selfish motives.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> ok going to do what you all said. I'm going to text them both. Just need to figure out what I am going to say.


You tell your H you love him and want him to really think before he takes the step he is getting ready to take. You tell HER to get the hell away from a married man. There is no glory in being a Homewrecker. Thats what you tell her.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

ok - just texted her

Tell my husband to get a good attorney.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Boy, you are angry as hell. I can't blame you.

From not interfering to talling him to lawyer up. That was a 180 on your part!

Really tragic.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> ok - just texted her
> 
> Tell my husband to get a good attorney.


Ok. Well thats at least something. Beats the hell out of just waiting for the explosion. 

so now what? since he has his phone off.....

Call his room???


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

......you threatened with a lawyer. You better be ready to back up that threat or he will continue to just walk all over you.

is that what you want? To divorce if he cheated? You said you were ok with it.

I know you are going through a bunch of emotions right now all in the span of about 5 seconds...anger, rage, anxiety, fear, guilt, sorrow....

But you just laid divorce on the table. Be prepared to do just that especially since you know his reaction is going to be explosive due to getting caught...


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> ......you threatened with a lawyer. You better be ready to back up that threat or he will continue to just walk all over you.
> 
> is that what you want? To divorce if he cheated? You said you were ok with it.
> 
> ...


Yes, divorce isnt a threat. Its an action. You dont threaten unless you plan to act-on it. Over playing your hand can be dangerous too. But now its done, Its way better than just sitting there wringing your hands doing nothing. 

What is the next step?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

So here is the text exchange with the OW.

I text her: Tell my husband to get a good attorney.

She texts me: Who is this?

I text Her: Mrs. XXXX

She texts me: I haven't seen your husband in over 12 years.

I text her: Don't text me ever again. He's all yours.

She texts me: I didn't text u 2 begin with annd I dont want him

And now he is calling me - shooting him to VM


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

And now he texts me: You need to call me NOW.

Not happening.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

.....he's trying to get ahold of you for damage control.....funny how he calls you RIGHT AFTER you text her...hmmm...

And your anger should be towards your H, not the OW! You should be engaging him, not her. Now you are going to look like the jealous crazy wife....


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

And his next message:

As in RIGHT NOW if u ever hope to save ur marriage!!!


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

The only reason I texted her instead of him is to confirm if they are actually together. Phone records are on a 2 hour delay. If she texts him after I texted her, then we know they aren't together. If she doesn't then we know they are. My dear friend came up with that one.

Regardless, I am totally prepared for D at this point. I am done.


----------



## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

I agree with 2asdf2 from the last page. Something seems out of tune with your approach to what you call reconcilliation.

You left him and continued to conduct your affair in secret. You said you came back because you chose him but didn't tell him of your faithlessness until after you came back.

How have you been showing your remorse? Have you been completely honest about why you came back? Does he really have/have you given him any certainty that you won't cheat on him again.

You not only caused him to lose his trust in you but also in what he thought about his marriage and by extension himself. He's coveing new ground and can't rely on anyone but his damaged self for what he should be doing.

I don't get the feeling that with your hands off attitude you can give the support he needs to get through this hell of your making. I don't know you of course but it's really annoying to hear someone say I can't or won't do anything about something they have caused.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> And his next message:
> 
> As in RIGHT NOW if u ever hope to save ur marriage!!!


HE'S BREAKING BOUNDARIES AND TURNING IT AROUND ON YOU????

Omg this is reminding me of the straw that broke the camels back in my own failed marriage....

I don't even know what advice to give at the moment b/c I'm getting worked up knowing what you are dealing with....


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

seasalt said:


> I agree with 2asdf2 from the last page. Something seems out of tune with your approach to what you call reconcilliation.
> 
> You left him and continued to conduct your affair in secret. You said you came back because you chose him but didn't tell him of your faithlessness until after you came back.
> 
> ...


She isnt causing him to cheat. She is a cheater and that needs to be dealt with. Rather by D or R. But if he cheats, then its plain and simple cheating . Not because she MADE him. If I have an affair now, should I be able to blame my WH? No. If her H cant R, fine. Then he can D her and move on but the answer is NOT to call his GF and hook up- ON his wife's dime at that- as she is the sole support......

She's no prize either. No doubt. Got her own issues. I dont agree at all with her 'hands off' approach. Waited til he was practically IN the act to do something. I dont agree with any of what has gone on. 

With taht said, we are currently dealing with HIM cheating at this very moment. Her cheating needs to be addressed as well but he cant do that from underneath some OW.


----------



## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

UnforgivableWife,

Everything you've put forward on this site has been less than evidence of the demonstrable remorse necessary for your reconcilliation. Your ID, your other thread about why should a BS continue with a faithless spouse, your sobeit attitude and finally your very quick on the trigger "I'm done".

My guess is that despite your assertions about your loving and wanting to be with your husband you can't commit to doing the work to successfully reconcile so your happy to bail and blame him.

You strung your husband along for a year and came back to him without first coming clean about your actions. Give him the chance to communicate with you that you unjustly withheld from him.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

seasalt said:


> I agree with 2asdf2 from the last page. Something seems out of tune with your approach to what you call reconcilliation.
> 
> You left him and continued to conduct your affair in secret. You said you came back because you chose him but didn't tell him of your faithlessness until after you came back.
> 
> ...


I have been completely transparent. I have tried and tried. Did I falter some days, yes. Did I TT, yes. But he knows everything and I have been completely honest with him. I really have tried to do everything to help him heal. For him. I just wanted him to be whole again. And if god willing he was able to get over the A, then maybe we would have a chance.


----------



## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I have been completely transparent. I have tried and tried. Did I falter some days, yes. Did I TT, yes. But he knows everything and I have been completely honest with him. I really have tried to do everything to help him heal. For him. I just wanted him to be whole again. And if god willing he was able to get over the A, then maybe we would have a chance.


Amazing..with all that you've done to him, you are willing to throw in the towel on an assumption. What he is doing is wrong, I agree, but you have no clue of what they are talking about or even doing. I know that is hard, but how hard do you think it is for him finding out you had a YEAR long affair?

Dish it out, but can't take it?


----------



## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

You want him to get over the affair. How does he do that? With a lobotomy? Does he do that with a wife who can't or won't communicate with him? Does he do that with someone who won't tell him when she thinks he is doing something wrong?

You said you were doing your best to reconcile. Of course we can only see what you've posted here but the only evidence of your attempt to reconcile has been a no contact that you say was easy to do. Why was it so easy to do? Did it have anything to do with why you came back to your husband? Did you and your lover part ways in an unpleasant fashion?

You may genuinely love your husband and want to be with him only, but it looks like you want to rug sweep your problems and have him "get over it"

I'd like to end with good luck but you're going to need far more than my best wishes to turn your situation around.


----------



## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> last night I took a xanax and a glass of wine and feel asleep.


do one or the other not both


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Calm down, friend. Get a cold showere.
Then call him. Tell him he sh1t on the agreed boundaries after months of lecturing and alleged reconciliation. He was also deceitful (he saw her texts before the travel). Let him explain himself.
You decided to avoid the conflict then lashed out in anger. No control.
Calm down. You were on the right track. I do believe you are remorseful. I've read all your posts, all your threads. I do bellieve you are.

I saw it coming, angrier and angrier as you watched the phone bill, the damm delay...

Calm down. Then call him. Focus in the boundaires. Don't let him deflect the issue. He agreed to tose boundaires.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I think you are looking for a reason to throw in the towel on the R. In your posts you keep saying how YOU think HE feels. What YOU think HE will do. How YOU do not think that HE can do this or that.

You don't want R, you are looking for a way out that can be blamed on him.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> I don't think you were up to speed when you made this posting.
> 
> She went first.
> 
> ...


Yes,i did not notice the no remorse


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Well, I did confront him and he said he has done nothing wrong. That I am trying to compare what he did "which is nothing" to what I did. Could have called that a mile away. He screamed at me that he just wanted to have lunch with a friend and that is nothing compared to what I did to him.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

He said he was drunk last night and asked her to have lunch today but changed his mind because he has morals, unlike me. And there was nothing wrong with what he did.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> He said he was drunk last night and asked her to have lunch today but changed his mind because he has morals, unlike me. And there was nothing wrong with what he did.


But there is...he broke the rules and boundaries that come after infidelity..don't let him minimize this!!!!


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Bad sign. Tell him it's not about comparing what worse. He's deflecting the issue and of course minimizing and shifting the blame at the same time.

Wait for him to come back, no more long distance confrontations. Collect your thoughts untill then. 
I told you to focus in the boundarie crossing. He agreed to them as he demanded them to you. He lied before the travel. He went MIA (from phone calls) on porpouse. He did he knowing it was wrong. Call him in those things. Don't let him deflect making of it a matter of degree. Tell him to be honest as he ask you to be. Remind him about the last few months. Tell him you already know the issue, you've BTDT. Tell him your feelings matter and you won't allow him to make you believe they don't. Tell him wrong choices works both ways.

Tell him whether the agreed boundaires doesn't aply anymore also for you. Tell him whether if you have to expect double starndars in regard to opposite sex friends from now on.

Be very, very very calm BUT very clear and firm. Don't let him deflect the issue. Ask him what are his plans from now on, whether he's going to be entitled to change the rules as he pleases as you cheated on him. Tell him to be honest, don't take you for stupid because you both know what's going on here.

You know what? I do belive you were right on this; he's punishing you. He knows you can watch the phone bill, he knew you was nervous about the travel, he knew.

Get some sleep.
Drink plenty of water.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

See, it would've been a fun lunch if you hadn't blown the cover. But you just took some of the fun out of it...and that's GOOD. If he still gets together with her, you've still siphoned off some of that stupid fun. As much as possible be calm when relating to him. Tell him you love him that's why you're fighting for your marriage and regret hurting him and doing these very same things to him -- breaking commitments, lying, etc.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Bad sign. Tell him it's not about comparing what worse. He's deflecting the issue and of course minimizing and shifting the blame at the same time.
> 
> Wait for him to come back, no more long distance confrontations. Collect your thoughts untill then.
> I told you to focus in the boundarie crossing. He agreed to them as he demanded them to you. He lied before the travel. He went MIA (from phone calls) on porpouse. He did he knowing it was wrong. Call him in those things. Don't let him deflect making of it a matter of degree. Tell him to be honest as he ask you to be. Remind him about the last few months. Tell him you already know the issue, you've BTDT. Tell him your feelings matter and you won't allow him to make you believe they don't. Tell him wrong choices works both ways.
> ...


This..re-read this about a hundred times...seriously


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I have been completely transparent. I have tried and tried. Did I falter some days, yes. Did I TT, yes. But he knows everything and I have been completely honest with him. I really have tried to do everything to help him heal. For him. I just wanted him to be whole again. And if god willing he was able to get over the A, then maybe we would have a chance.


So you have not kept your deal, You have faltered some days. So now that you had your fun, now we will keep to our vows or should you say he should keep to his.

"For Him" Are you kidding me.

I do not condone cheating but I am sorry that I can not feel for you.

I hope he finds what he is looking for but I do not support the way he went about it.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Did you seriously tell your BS to "lawyer up" because he spoke to his ex girlfriend? The advice here telling this lady to do a 180 after her husband found out that she had an affair for over a year is perhaps the most bizarre thing I've ever read.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

This thread is an interesting insight.The paranoid mind of a cheater...Gives some sense of the thinking process of a paranoid WS and their freak outs..

OP, can you summarize what you did yesterday in a few lines(I did read the whole thread)


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

How's it going??


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

seasalt said:


> I agree with 2asdf2 from the last page. Something seems out of tune with your approach to what you call reconcilliation.
> 
> You left him and continued to conduct your affair in secret. You said you came back because you chose him but didn't tell him of your faithlessness until after you came back.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

You hit the nail right on the head. This is nothing but narcissistic gas lighting at it's best. The cheater who was sleeping with someone else for god knows how long behind her husbands back, wants to divorce because her husband might have gone to lunch with an ex? And people here are agreeing with her??!!

OP, do your husband a favor ... Divorce him and put him out of his misery.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

jim123 said:


> So you have not kept your deal, You have faltered some days. So now that you had your fun, now we will keep to our vows or should you say he should keep to his.
> 
> "For Him" Are you kidding me.
> 
> ...


I only faltered in how I dealt with him not anything else! There were days I felt sorry for myself or got angry with him when I should have been more understanding. I have NEVER faltered with ANY inappropriate behavior. I have been TOTALLY transparent.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

We spoke several times - no good outcome. He said he has done nothing wrong and that I should trust him since I am the one who cheated. I have no right to question him. Every time I tried to tell him that he crossed the boundaries we agreed to, he just started talking about the affair. He doesn't see anything wrong with contacting his old GF. He said she is just a friend and there is nothing wrong with contacting her even though we specifically talked about her since I found old messages that were inappropriate on his FB account from years ago. Also, that there was nothing wrong with texting any girl since he knows he can put the brakes on.

This is exactly what I said would happen. I know my husband.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> You hit the nail right on the head. This is nothing but narcissistic gas lighting at it's best. The cheater who was sleeping with someone else for god knows how long behind her husbands back, wants to divorce because her husband might have gone to lunch with an ex? And people here are agreeing with her??!!
> 
> OP, do your husband a favor ... Divorce him and put him out of his misery.


NO! I want a divorce because I am no longer a cheater and believe in fidelity. I believe that you should have boundaries and that you should be honest and not lie by omission. That you MUST protect your marriage and not leave the door open for anyone else to make you feel good except your spouse.

All of these things I was just told don't apply to him because I cheated. I don't blame him for feeling this way. I hurt him beyond what any human should feel.

Yes I cheated and it was the biggest mistake of my life that I will regret for a lifetime. I love my husband more than anything and I tried everything to save our marriage. The last 2 months of trying to R has taught me more about myself than anything in all of my life and I am now a better person for it.

So yes, I will divorce him and put him out of his misery. Not because I am a narcissist or am gaslighting, but maybe because I do get it and I recognize the meaning of marriage, fidelity and love. My husband and I both deserve better than this.

And yes, I will have to live with the fact that although the stupid incident with his oldGF brought this all to light, that my A is really still the reason we will not be together and I will forever be sorry to that incredible wonderful man that for the moment is my husband.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Oh god, my poor children will be up in 30 minutes. How can I possibly face them knowing what I have done to them. Remorse doesn't even scratch the surface. And my poor husband - what have I done to him?

Someone please tell me that this pain will go away one day.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Oh god, my poor children will be up in 30 minutes. How can I possibly face them knowing what I have done to them. Remorse doesn't even scratch the surface. And my poor husband - what have I done to him?
> 
> Someone please tell me that this pain will go away one day.


Honey, you need to slow down. I know the emotions are running really high. But you need to take a breath and let life settle for a bit. Talk to a friend. Something. Don't disintegrate your family automatically. 

Confronting while he was gone like that did not work. My recommendation was to confront when he got home. Still do this - have a tactful discussion about what you are willing to accept - that two wrongs don't make a right. Talking to an ExGF all of a sudden (IIRC), that he hasn't talked to in a long time, especially during this tenuous time, should be forbidden, no matter what you've done. AGain, two wrongs don't make a right.

Explain this to him calmly, explain what you can and cannot accept. Then it's up to him. He can't just throw the A in your face and cross marital boundaries. If he does, reiterate your boundaries, and tell him you are committed to R, to faithfulness, but this doesn't include him talking to women behind your back.

If he refuses, then tell him you have to put D on the table. But don't do that until you've had this IN PERSON discussion.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Honey, you need to slow down. I know the emotions are running really high. But you need to take a breath and let life settle for a bit. Talk to a friend. Something. Don't disintegrate your family automatically.
> 
> Confronting while he was gone like that did not work. My recommendation was to confront when he got home. Still do this - have a tactful discussion about what you are willing to accept - that two wrongs don't make a right. Talking to an ExGF all of a sudden (IIRC), that he hasn't talked to in a long time, especially during this tenuous time, should be forbidden, no matter what you've done. AGain, two wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> ...


I wasn't going to confront him until he came home - it wasn't the right thing to do. I just felt like everyone here was telling me to fight and I that I wasn't doing that by not confronting him. That I was playing the martyr and just letting it happen.

Always trust your instincts right? I know my husband better than anyone and knew exactly how he would react which is what happened. Dumb, dumb, dumb.


----------



## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

Why haven't you used your knowledge of your husband to do the better job of reconciliation rather than using it to hammer nails into your marriage's coffin?

Funny but I think you should tell him you have removed all of the trust in the marriage by your actions and therefor trusting him is not a given. 

Honesty and considered thought before action is what you should be doing now. You didn't think about the consequences of your actions when you chose to cheat. Try some considered thinking now.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

What I want to do is get his ass on the first flight home so we can talk face to face. Another part of me says another day apart might be helpful to let the emotions settle. 

I don't want a divorce - I want my husband back. I just can't let the A define who I am and my marriage. I want more for myself and my husband.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Now that you have been called out, all of a sudden, remorse-like language spatters your postings.
> 
> It is very hard to take that language seriously.


Called out?


----------



## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

I have read this thread several times and from it I take you were upset that your Husband did not want to take you to the wedding and chose to push his buttons, knowing that he would react in a way that would be confrontational. ( Being asleep and not answering his initial phone call to start, Why did you not call him prior to taking the Xanax and telling him you were beat and going to take a prescription drug and also drink a glass of wine . By the way a really good combination for a parent with children sleeping in the house.)

Once he reacted in the way that you knew he would you continued to play the game of getting him to react, yes it was wrong on his part, but you continued to escalate it by pushing his buttons so he fought back by doing things to upset you.

I believe He was not fully accepting the R as he does not see you as truly being Remorseful and wanting to make it right and when you push his buttons he is now going to push back.

Quit playing games and maybe you can get your husband back.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

rrrbbbttt said:


> I have read this thread several times and from it I take you were upset that your Husband did not want to take you to the wedding and chose to push his buttons, knowing that he would react in a way that would be confrontational. ( Being asleep and not answering his initial phone call to start, Why did you not call him prior to taking the Xanax and telling him you were beat and going to take a prescription drug and also drink a glass of wine . By the way a really good combination for a parent with children sleeping in the house.)
> 
> Once he reacted in the way that you knew he would you continued to play the game of getting him to react, yes it was wrong on his part, but you continued to escalate it by pushing his buttons so he fought back by doing things to upset you.
> 
> ...


Yes agree. Xanax and a glass of wine without 2 days of sleep are not a good combination. That won't happen again for sure.

I wasn't purposefully trying to push his buttons. Was I hurt that he didn't want to take me to the wedding - yes I was crushed. Couldn't sleep, could eat, etc. I gave him the space he wanted so he could focus on his best friend's day.

I surprised him with a limo at the airport, a video from the kids and a dozen roses at his hotel. I sent him an email that I was sorry I caused him to have to be there alone and that I was so sorry that I am causing him so much pain.

I wasn't trying to get him to react to anything. I saw he was contacting his old GF when we had agreed specifically on our boundaries and that we wanted to move forward with honesty.

Yes, he believes that by me confronting him about the texts and the fact he asked her to go to lunch that that means I am not remorseful about the A. 

That rationale just doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

So, did you tell him calmly it doesn't make sense and express your feelings about this or did you escalate it?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> You are too busy to read the postings on your own thread.
> 
> Called out.


Still don't understand. Perhaps I am dense. Can you please just explain what you mean?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

rrrbbbttt said:


> So, did you tell him calmly it doesn't make sense and express your feelings about this or did you escalate it?


I asked him calmly. He said I was a piece of work. I said we had agreed on our boundries and this was not right. He said I should be ashamed at myself for even questioning him. He asked a friend to go to lunch and I have a lot of nerve questioning him on that. And then it got worse and worse. Hang ups, yelling (me too), more calls, etc. Yes, I got angry an upset. I am human and was frustrated that he could not stop yelling for a minute about the affair an just talk to me about the texts.

My biggest fear coming back that our life going forward together would always be defined by the A. That in his eyes, he would always see the A and nothing of the person that I now am.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

I know I could have handled it better and understand that he is angry and incredibly hurt by the affair.


----------



## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

"Upset that he could not stop yelling for a minute about the affair" a quote from these threads "No one ever gets over when they find out that their spouse is not exclusively theirs"

Yes, you are walking on eggshells. He is angry and may be vindictive about the affair but instead of getting into an argument could you have let him blow off the steam without you yelling, ie pushes his buttons and then you could have had the conversation?

Not easy from your side, but he is the one you cheated on and he is trying to deal with the betrayal and as evident that he did not want to take you to the wedding he is still dealing with this issue emotionally.

Yeah, it is difficult to ensure the proper boundaries are set, but you are the one who is trying to R and you getting angry about his anger for your affair is not going to help it.

Even if you say you are not the type of person to take this from anyone, his anger, remember he has not healed and at some times he needs to vent. If you allow him to vent instead of confronting him on it you may be then allowing him to get the anger of the moment, which he will have a lot of off his chest. Then if you talk to him in a normal tone not anger about why this is upsetting to you he may be able to understand that this is not helping the R. This is part of the HEAVY LIFTING that has to be done on your part.

If he continues, even though you did not press his buttons, then you need to consider the D but from this he seems to be vindictive.

If he then goes on and continues to break the boundaries you have more problems


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

UnforgivableWife said:


> My biggest fear coming back that our life going forward together would always be defined by the A. That in his eyes, he would always see the A and nothing of the person that I now am.


The first sentence is a real fear, and something I would think most WS would be concerned about. The second sentence, while a good long term goal, is not realistic in the short term. DDay was only 2 months ago. It's way too soon to expect him to not lash out at you, to assume you've "changed".

You had a full-on affair for an entire year, right? He's not going to think you are this new, faithful person after just two months. 

He does, however, need to respect your boundaries and you need to demand that. Tell him you don't expect him to get over the A just like that, and you don't expect him to trust you. But you do expect him to respect your boundaries, and that if he's going to make your A an excuse to break them, it's probably best if you D.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Acabado said:


> There's not such a thing as cosmic justice or "karma".


People who get run over by the karma bus would say otherwise.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I asked him calmly. He said I was a piece of work. I said we had agreed on our boundries and this was not right. He said I should be ashamed at myself for even questioning him. He asked a friend to go to lunch and I have a lot of nerve questioning him on that. And then it got worse and worse. Hang ups, yelling (me too), more calls, etc. Yes, I got angry an upset. I am human and was frustrated that he could not stop yelling for a minute about the affair an just talk to me about the texts.
> 
> My biggest fear coming back that our life going forward together would always be defined by the A. That in his eyes, he would always see the A and nothing of the person that I now am.


I didn't read the whole thread but it sounds like your husband is being abusive. Just because you cheated it does not mean you should spend the rest of your life being abused. I've read some of the posts on this site and it sends chills down my spine. A lot of people here would like to crucify you and throw lit rags at you while screaming "kill the witch." Don't let them do that and don't stay in an abusive marriage. If your husband can't get over it then you should move on for your own mental health.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

I really don't expect him to think it's all better and that I am a new person. I don't. I know the pain is just starting and will take years to get even a little better.

I know he is angry and hurt, but turning to someone else now after everything we have been through? What should have I done?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Amyd said:


> I didn't read the whole thread but it sounds like your husband is being abusive. Just because you cheated it does not mean you should spend the rest of your life being abused. I've read some of the posts on this site and it sends chills down my spine. A lot of people here would like to crucify you and throw lit rags at you while screaming "kill the witch." Don't let them do that and don't stay in an abusive marriage. If your husband can't get over it then you should move on for your own mental health.


Thank you. He is not abusive. He is devastated. Outside of getting angry too or waiting until he came home to confront him, I'm not sure what else I could have done.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Thank you. He is not abusive. He is devastated. Outside of getting angry too or waiting until he came home to confront him, I'm not sure what else I could have done.


In the beginning of your thread you said he was texting with another woman prior to your affair. Correct?


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Amyd said:


> In the beginning of your thread you said he was texting with another woman prior to your affair. Correct?


Yes, the oldGF. HeI confronted him with them a month ago when I found them. They were totally inappropriate. He just got mad at me and said I was looking for something to make my A ok. He was just trying to be a friend to her and since she lives on the other side of the country, never even saw her once so I can't compare the two. I wasn't trying to of course. I wanted him to get her off his FB account. He did a couple of weeks ago and then friended her again when he got to CA. I know this because my friend told me. He won't be friends with me on FB.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yes, the oldGF. HeI confronted him with them a month ago when I found them. They were totally inappropriate. He just got mad at me and said I was looking for something to make my A ok. He was just trying to be a friend to her and since she lives on the other side of the country, never even saw her once so I can't compare the two. I wasn't trying to of course. I wanted him to get her off his FB account. He did a couple of weeks ago and then friended her again when he got to CA. I know this because my friend told me. He won't be friends with me on FB.


If he was having inappropriate chats then he was engaging in an emotional affair. So you can beat yourself up and name yourself "unforgivable" but it sounds to me like you both cheated and it also sounds like he started the cheating ball rolling. Now he is taking every opportunity to make you feel guilty for what you did so he doesn't have to take responsibility for his behavior.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Amyd said:


> If he was having inappropriate chats then he was engaging in an emotional affair. So you can beat yourself up and name yourself "unforgivable" but it sounds to me like you both cheated and it also sounds like he started the cheating ball rolling. Now he is taking every opportunity to make you feel guilty for what you did so he doesn't have to take responsibility for his behavior.


Inappropriate but not an EA. He wasn't cheating. Shouldn't have been doing it and hiding it from me but not cheating. There were only a 4 or 5 exchanges. One of them pretty inappropriate about 2 years ago but mostly her claiming her undying love for him.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Inappropriate but not an EA. He wasn't cheating. Shouldn't have been doing it and hiding it from me but not cheating. There were only a 4 or 5 exchanges. One of them pretty inappropriate about 2 years ago but mostly her claiming her undying love for him.


I don't know what to tell you. If my husband had a woman claiming undying love for him she would be blocked. It sounds like you husband was having good time getting his ego stroked. If you want to be mean to yourself I can't stop you.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

You know I chose to follow this site at he beginning of R because it was so tough on cheaters. Just no BS and I like that. So let me ask an honest question.

You all refer to heavy lifting. What should I have been doing in this situation to do the heavy lifting?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Did you seriously tell your BS to "lawyer up" because he spoke to his ex girlfriend? The advice here telling this lady to do a 180 after her husband found out that she had an affair for over a year is perhaps the most bizarre thing I've ever read.


I think we told her that the 180 was NOT to be done on the BS. At least thats what I told her. She blew it off but I told her NO 180 on a BS-EVER.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I wasn't going to confront him until he came home - it wasn't the right thing to do. I just felt like everyone here was telling me to fight and I that I wasn't doing that by not confronting him. That I was playing the martyr and just letting it happen.
> 
> Always trust your instincts right? I know my husband better than anyone and knew exactly how he would react which is what happened. Dumb, dumb, dumb.


NO. We told you to contact him. We did NOT tell you to contact him and threaten to D him. We did not tell you to contact the GF. We told you to call him and tell him you love him and to please consider what he is about to do. NO ONE told you to send a text threatening to D him and absolutely NO ONE told you to bother with the GF.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Amyd said:


> I don't know what to tell you. If my husband had a woman claiming undying love for him she would be blocked. It sounds like you husband was having good time getting his ego stroked. If you want to be mean to yourself I can't stop you.


Yes he was getting his ego stroked but a few email exchanges doesn't constitute an EA to me.

We had very poor boundaries in our marriage. We both believed we were above an affair of any kind - that we were stronger than that. That is why it is so important to me now that we both have very strong boundaries.

That is why him telling me that the contact with his old GF has me reeling and thinking maybe better off at this point to just D.

Maybe he's just angry and can't think straight. I just find it hard to believe that he would actually believe that would be ok after all we have talked about the past few months.

If he just said I felt like **** about the A and made a mistake. Fine, we move forward. But telling me there is nothing wrong with it and I have no right to question him - well, I can't do that.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> NO. We told you to contact him. We did NOT tell you to contact him and threaten to D him. We did not tell you to contact the GF. We told you to call him and tell him you love him and to please consider what he is about to do. NO ONE told you to send a text threatening to D him and absolutely NO ON told you to bother with the GF.


You are right. I called him 10 times in a row and he shot me to VM. I went off the deep end. When we did finally talk I pleaded with him for us both to calm down and just talk. Yes, my threatening D certainly was stupid. Outcome would have been the same though.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I think we told her that the 180 was NOT to be done on the BS. At least thats what I told her. She blew it off but I told her NO 180 on a BS-EVER.


Forget about the term"180" for a minute.

If he is telling me that it is ok for him to talk/email/see his old GF (that professes her undying love to him) and I have no right to question him because I had an affair. Then what should I do?


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yes he was getting his ego stroked but a few email exchanges doesn't constitute an EA to me.
> 
> We had very poor boundaries in our marriage. We both believed we were above an affair of any kind - that we were stronger than that. That is why it is so important to me now that we both have very strong boundaries.
> 
> ...


Marriages are fragile and need to be handled with care. Contact with an old GF is just stupid and no good can come out of it. I know the thought of breaking up your marriage is painful but it might be the only reasonable thing to do. It doesn't sound like he wants to work on the reconciliation. It sounds like he wants to make you feel bad for cheating and is treating himself to Old girlfriend on the side. The situation sounds pretty sad.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Forget about the term"180" for a minute.
> 
> If he is telling me that it is ok for him to talk/email/see his old GF (that professes her undying love to him) and I have no right to question him because I had an affair. Then what should I do?


NO ONe is saying that either. What we are saying is that if you knew he was doing this BEFORE he went why did you wait until he got there and then do this???? Why did you not address it before he left. Then sit ALL day doing nothing. You could have called him, actually you spoke twice to him and didnt mention it, then sent him a wicked ass text threatening to divorce him.....

We are simply saying you are not treating him like a BS. You are treating him like a WS. YOu have EVERY right to expect him to respect marital boundaries. Affair or no. The point is you waited ALL day, then went off the deep end when he didnt answer. When you asked what you should say on your text we told you tread lightly.......so you say "get a good lawyer"....?

Do you have ANY idea how much it hurts to be cheated on? You crushed him. He is questioning everything he ever knew about you, himself and your marriage. We were trying to get you to stop the trainwreck but not by creating the holocaust....


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> You are right. I called him 10 times in a row and he shot me to VM. I went off the deep end. When we did finally talk I pleaded with him for us both to calm down and just talk. Yes, my threatening D certainly was stupid. Outcome would have been the same though.


If you beg he will run further away. Stop calling. Stop begging. Go to lunch with a girlfriend and cry. Buy yourself something nice.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Amyd said:


> If you beg he will run further away. Stop calling. Stop begging. Go to lunch with a girlfriend and cry. Buy yourself something nice.


WTF?????? Are you aware that she had a physical affair?????


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Forget about the term"180" for a minute.
> 
> If he is telling me that it is ok for him to talk/email/see his old GF (that professes her undying love to him) and I have no right to question him because I had an affair. Then what should I do?


Tell him this:

If you are going to contact your old girlfriend there is nothing I can do to stop you. 

Then hang up and throw your cell phone away. Seriously. Get rid of it.


----------



## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

I try only to comment on the original tread starter's posts but I find it extremely significant that you seem to have latched onto amyd's posts. A poster who has admitted they have not read the entire thread and someone who has judged you to be in an abusive marriage.

The people who post here, myself included, are not trained in psychology. Try to separate the wheat from the chaff and don't listen to what you want to hear. Listen to those who make you rethink why you had to come here in the first place.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> WTF?????? Are you aware that she had a physical affair?????


Yes. She is a woman who had a physical affair, not the demon from hell who deserves to be beat up.

The affair is over but her husband is stopping the marriage from healing.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Amyd said:


> Yes. She is a woman who had a physical affair, not the demon from hell who deserves to be beat up.
> 
> The affair is over but her husband is stopping the marriage from healing.


HE is????? Wow. Have you read this thread?????


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

seasalt said:


> I try only to comment on the original tread starter's posts but I find it extremely significant that you seem to have latched onto amyd's posts. A poster who has admitted they have not read the entire thread and someone who has judged you to be in an abusive marriage.
> 
> The people who post here, myself included, are not trained in psychology. Try to separate the wheat from the chaff and don't listen to what you want to hear. Listen to those who make you rethink why you had to come here in the first place.


Excuse me but I don't need to hear all the lyrics to understand the music.

She had an affair and is trying to reconcile with her husband. Her husband is angry and is using the affair as a reason to continue to mess around via text with an ex girlfriend. This is immature and unhelpful.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> HE is????? Wow. Have you read this thread?????


If he continues to email an ex-girlfriend then he is preventing healing. 

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Amyd said:


> Tell him this:
> 
> If you are going to contact your old girlfriend there is nothing I can do to stop you.
> 
> Then hang up and throw your cell phone away. Seriously. Get rid of it.


Yes do that. Then kick him in the balls....


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Yes do that. Then kick him in the balls....


That doesn't make sense.The husband isn't contacting her. She keeps calling him. Getting rid of the cell phone will prevent her from making obsessive phone calls it has nothing to do with punishing him.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> NO ONe is saying that either. What we are saying is that if you knew he was doing this BEFORE he went why did you wait until he got there and then do this???? Why did you not address it before he left. Then sit ALL day doing nothing. You could have called him, actually you spoke twice to him and didnt mention it, then sent him a wicked ass text threatening to divorce him.....
> 
> We are simply saying you are not treating him like a BS. You are treating him like a WS. YOu have EVERY right to expect him to respect marital boundaries. Affair or no. The point is you waited ALL day, then went off the deep end when he didnt answer. When you asked what you should say on your text we told you tread lightly.......so you say "get a good lawyer"....?
> 
> Do you have ANY idea how much it hurts to be cheated on? You crushed him. He is questioning everything he ever knew about you, himself and your marriage. We were trying to get you to stop the trainwreck but not by creating the holocaust....


She texted him the day before he left. He didn't return the text. He didn't tell me about it either. I didn't confront him because I didn't want to fight with him before he left. This was going to be a very painful time for both of us and I didn't want to make it any more difficult and I knew he would get pissed that I was calling him on not telling me about it and deleting it.

Yes, I waited all day. Yes, I talked to him twice and he said nothing. Is it wrong for me to want to know what he actually was doing? Maybe yes. I don't know anymore.

And yes, the text was stupid at that point - I shouldn't have ever brought up D. I went off the deep end. Funny since I am typically so incredibly good at controling my emotions - well up until DDay anyway.

So now what?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> She texted him the day before he left. He didn't return the text. He didn't tell me about it either. I didn't confront him because I didn't want to fight with him before he left. This was going to be a very painful time for both of us and I didn't want to make it any more difficult and I knew he would get pissed that I was calling him on not telling me about it and deleting it.
> 
> Yes, I waited all day. Yes, I talked to him twice and he said nothing. Is it wrong for me to want to know what he actually was doing? Maybe yes. I don't know anymore.
> 
> ...


well first stop listening to people tell you he's abusive. He's miserable. He's in agony. You fcked another man! He cant get that image out of his head! Yes He violated boundaries. Yes you needed to call him on it. Absolutely. Positively. Yes. 

Its good you know you went way the hell off the deep end. NOW you claim to really know him, right? so whats he doing right now? whats he thinking?

When he comes home the very first thing you must do is apologize for that text! and the D word. YOU should NEVER say it unless you mean it. Its damaging. Its further rattling a man who is standing in quicksand. Is he doing everything right, hell NO. But listen, neither are YOU.

You have got to sit down with him and be calm and contrite. at the same time you have to be firm on the boundaries. YOUr affair is not permission for him to violate marital boundaries. It may be possible that he cannot R. You may have to accept that. But there is still So much you should be doing. Starting with losing the hands off attitude.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> well first stop listening to people tell you he's abusive. He's miserable. He's in agony. You fcked another man! He cant get that image out of his head! Yes He violated boundaries. Yes you needed to call him on it. Absolutely. Positively. Yes.
> 
> Its good you know you went way the hell off the deep end. NOW you claim to really know him, right? so whats he doing right now? whats he thinking?
> 
> ...


Yes, good advice. Thank you.

He doesn't get home until tomorrow morning. Do I wait until then to talk to him? He is in CA all day by himself.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

I would just buy him a plane ticket home today if I think I could get him to take it.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yes, good advice. Thank you.
> 
> He doesn't get home until tomorrow morning. Do I wait until then to talk to him? He is in CA all day by himself.


well, this is one only you can answer. If you think calling will escalate the situation then you dont. Maybe send a text with something saying you realize you lost your composure and would like him to take the day to think with the knowledge that you love him and understand that you both need alot of work. 

I wouldnt bother with the ticket thing. HE's unlikely to take it Iwould imagine. besides a day to clear his head may be a good thing. Again, he is in the wrong with the GF thing, no doubt. But, he has had his world jerked out from under him(you) in a very violent way. His self esteem may be in the toilet. Now you threatened to D him. 

Have you read up on what a WS should be doing during R? There are a couple of threads/stickies. You need to know what he's going thru and how to deal with that.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> well, this is one only you can answer. If you think calling will escalate the situation then you dont. Maybe send a text with something saying you realize you lost your composure and would like him to take the day to think with the knowledge that you love him and understand that you both need alot of work.
> 
> I wouldnt bother with the ticket thing. HE's unlikely to take it Iwould imagine. besides a day to clear his head may be a good thing. Again, he is in the wrong with the GF thing, no doubt. But, he has had his world jerked out from under him(you) in a very violent way. His self esteem may be in the toilet. Now you threatened to D him.
> 
> Have you read up on what a WS should be doing during R? There are a couple of threads/stickies. You need to know what he's going thru and how to deal with that.


Yes, I have read everything on this site, other sites, books, etc. But just knowing what you should do doesn't mean you'll be able to do it 100% of the time. The one think that really stuck was the post about having an affair meant that I killed my BH wife and now I am asking forgiveness for it. Every WS should read that one.

I'm trying, I really am trying. I'll leave it up to him on when he wants to come home.

Thank you for the really good advice. Really - thank you!


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yes, I have read everything on this site, other sites, books, etc. But just knowing what you should do doesn't mean you'll be able to do it 100% of the time. The one think that really stuck was the post about having an affair meant that I killed my BH wife and now I am asking forgiveness for it. Every WS should read that one.
> 
> I'm trying, I really am trying. I'll leave it up to him on when he wants to come home.
> 
> Thank you for the really good advice. Really - thank you!


No, nothing is ever 100%. R is trial and error at times. BUT, with that said the most important thing you can do is always remember that you have hurt him beyond your wildest imagination. That should help guide you if you truly love him. Realize that everytime he closes his eyes he sees you fcking another man. He worries he isnt man enough for you. He wonders how you looked him in the eye and lied straight to his face and yet claimed to love him. He questions everything you've ever said to him. This is a very high mountain for you to climb. and a very low valley for him. 

If you can, I think MC is in order here. He seems to be struggling with some self esteem issues hence his need for outside validation from exGF's, waitresses etc. THere seem to be alot of issues here. For both of you. But the first order of busines is to put out this fire. 

sit down and write out how you feel and how you think he feels. where you went wrong and what you want to do in the future. Thats my suggestion for now.

Good luck


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Did you seriously tell your BS to "lawyer up" because he spoke to his ex girlfriend? The advice here telling this lady to do a 180 after her husband found out that she had an affair for over a year is perhaps the most bizarre thing I've ever read.


Because a WS has an affair does not mean that the BS can all of a sudden decide to not maintain boundaries and get on the slippery slope to start an EA/PA.

That is not recovering.

That is cheating.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Your handling of your BH's boundary violations makes me think that you are grateful that this distraction somehow evens the score.
> 
> Now you are able to take the high road, and demand a divorce, change your mind about divorce, and generally act the victim.
> 
> ...


I think she's getting that this morning. Yay! sometimes sleep does wonders. Can you read my post and see if you have anything to add. anythin I missed??? this guy is gonna need some help when he gets home. She is gonna need guidance wiht how to proceed. Lets focus on that???


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Your handling of your BH's boundary violations makes me think that you are grateful that this distraction somehow evens the score.
> 
> Now you are able to take the high road, and demand a divorce, change your mind about divorce, and generally act the victim.
> 
> ...


No I was not grateful for the distraction. The last thing I wanted on this trip for him was this **** hole we are in again. I tried to make this trip for him a time to heal and a time for hope. Limo from the airport, flowers at the hotel, email telling him how much I wanted him to enjoy the wedding. All this while not being there with him was killing me inside. Don't dare tell me that I am grateful for this.

Did I handle the whole old GF text thing right, no. That doesn't mean I am not remorseful and want a true R.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

theroad said:


> Because a WS has an affair does not mean that the BS can all of a sudden decide to not maintain boundaries and get on the slippery slope to start an EA/PA.
> 
> That is not recovering.
> 
> That is cheating.


That's the feeling I'm getting. He's using it as a way to manipulate her. Then again the husband isn't on the site so I can't hear his side. But if the truth is that the husband had a text-fest with the ex-girlfriend prior to the affair then he was already cheating.

Note to all: Once you get married don't email, text, call ex-lovers no good can come of it.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Amyd said:


> That's the feeling I'm getting. He's using it as a way to manipulate her. Then again the husband isn't on the site so I can't hear his side. But if the truth is that the husband had a text-fest with the ex-girlfriend prior to the affair then he was already cheating.
> 
> Note to all: Once you get married don't email, text, call ex-lovers no good can come of it.


Maybe, maybe not. Does't really matter to me right now what it is labeled. If I can't get my BH to heal from my A and be able to see me as his wife again, anything prior to that doesn't mean a thing anyway. We can deal with all of that stuff later. I just want to make sure that the boundaries, honesty and loyalty are there for both of us now so we can have a real chance for R.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Your handling of your BH's boundary violations makes me think that you are grateful that this distraction somehow evens the score.
> 
> Now you are able to take the high road, and demand a divorce, change your mind about divorce, and generally act the victim.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I'm not focusing on his behaviors. I'm simply stating that she isn't the only one who is at fault as far as cheating goes. I've read so many posts on this site and the way people are being treated is disgusting. My gut feeling is there are a lot of posters who have been cheating on and they are taking out their aggressions on anyone who admits to cheating. Bible thumping, finger pointing and torch lighting can be heard for miles.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Not condoning it by any stretch, but my A was the killer. And until we can get through that, nothing else really matters right now.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> You may not be grateful for how the distraction is coming about.
> 
> I definitely think you are grateful that the score is -in your eyes- even.
> .


Man you are bitter. Sorry you feel that way - you must have been hurt beyond belief and because of that, I understand your skepticism and honesty.

The score will never be even in my eyes. Even if he has a 10 year long affair now, I would still blame my A as the cause. If we divorce, I would still blame my A.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yes, I have read everything on this site, other sites, books, etc. But just knowing what you should do doesn't mean you'll be able to do it 100% of the time. The one think that really stuck was the post about having an affair meant that I killed my BH wife and now I am asking forgiveness for it. Every WS should read that one.
> 
> I'm trying, I really am trying. I'll leave it up to him on when he wants to come home.
> 
> Thank you for the really good advice. Really - thank you!



I lost my betrayed spouse because I threatened divorce, when she sought attention from other men after learning of my visiting prostitutes and then graduating to and affair five years later.

I realize now how stupid I was. I failed to understand as one friend told me, that she needed to get this attention from another man to boost her self esteem and deal with her insecure feelings about me and my commitment to her. 

Also, threatening to divorce her only made her feel more insecure about my love for her. 

The truth is I strayed because I am weak, and when a women throws herself at me, I can't say no.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Man you are bitter. Sorry you feel that way - you must have been hurt beyond belief and because of that, I understand your skepticism and honesty.
> 
> The score will never be even in my eyes. Even if he has a 10 year long affair now, I would still blame my A as the cause. If we divorce, I would still blame my A.


Sitting around blaming yourself or blaming others is never productive.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> I lost my betrayed spouse because I threatened divorce, when she sought attention from other men after learning of my visiting prostitutes and then graduating to and affair five years later.
> 
> I realize now how stupid I was. I failed to understand as one friend told me, that she needed to get this attention from another man to boost her self esteem and deal with her insecure feelings about me and my commitment to her.
> 
> ...


That was probably the most honest post I've read on this site so far.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Your handling of your BH's boundary violations makes me think that you are grateful that this distraction somehow evens the score.
> 
> Now you are able to take the high road, and demand a divorce, change your mind about divorce, and generally act the victim.
> 
> ...


No, I haven't resolved my own issues yet. I'm trying to honestly deal with that but it will take time. The A happened because of my lack of character and integrity and a feeling that I was above my vows, even when I held my BH to them. Entitlement that I deserved more than anyone else. Selfish with a total disregard to my H and family. Feeling that I want to control everything - I am a control freak. I am extrememly successful in my career and a total failure in my personal life. Been that way for a very long time.

So no, I haven't resolved my issues yet but I now recognize that I need to fix some pretty big things and I have started to do that and start to become the person that I want to be.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Maybe, maybe not. Does't really matter to me right now what it is labeled. If I can't get my BH to heal from my A and be able to see me as his wife again, anything prior to that doesn't mean a thing anyway. We can deal with all of that stuff later. I just want to make sure that the boundaries, honesty and loyalty are there for both of us now so we can have a real chance for R.


I'm not sure how helpful these labels are:

BH I assume means Betrayed husband. As long as you're considered a Unforgivable wayward and he's considered the Betrayed I don't see how any progress can happen.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Don't blameshift. I am not bitter.
> 
> I was -less so now that you are getting it some- frustrated because I did not see a significant degree of remorse in your postings.
> 
> ...


Nah - told you I posted this because you people are bulldogs - just like my BH. I may not agree and I may not like what I read, but I know you all are just trying to help.

I am an extremely private person so I can't tell you how incredibly odd this is to put this all out there for 100's of people to read.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Amyd said:


> That was probably the most honest post I've read on this site so far.


Thank you for that.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> I lost my betrayed spouse because I threatened divorce, when she sought attention from other men after learning of my visiting prostitutes and then graduating to and affair five years later.
> 
> I realize now how stupid I was. I failed to understand as one friend told me, that she needed to get this attention from another man to boost her self esteem and deal with her insecure feelings about me and my commitment to her.
> 
> ...


Sorry you lost her - bitter pill to swallow.


----------



## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

You have gotten a lot of advise, your husband is going to come home tomorrow, he is probably going to call today so what is your plan of action to deal with:

1. The phone call
2. The discussion when he comes home

Not pushing to ask you the questions, but if you have an agenda setup for how you are going to deal with things it makes it a lot easier then talking off the cuff. You probably would not have referred to an Attorney in the previous phone call if you had thought about it.

Some people need to write down their thoughts ahead of time so that they are able to deal with the situation, if this is not you, then disregard this post.


----------



## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

I didn't read all the posts in this thread, just the first page, but based on what I read, it sounds to me like you are getting a chance to truly feel what he felt. That might be a good thing, insofar as reconciliation, but it might also be a bad thing since we now have two people insecure about each other, rather than just one... it will make for one very jumpy, paranoid family for the years to come.

Chicken or the egg. I don't know what came first, his texting girls (which is unacceptable) or you having sexual intercourse with another man (which is obviously unacceptable). You guys will probably fight over who started this for a long time; and that won't be healthy.

I don't know what you should do. I feel bad for the kids, and for them I want to say give reconciliation a shot, but I doubt your husband is ever going to really get over (and I'll describe it the way he sees it in his head) another male, using his wife's body, feeling her, kissing her, violating places that are mine, she willingly took what is mine and laughed and moaned as he marked her as his territory. That's a hard pill for a spouse to swallow.

T


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

I texted him this an hour ago.

U;m sorry I went off the deep end and even mentioned the word divorce. I do not want that and will never say that word again. I love you and know you are in an immense amount of pain. I am sorry every day for that. We need to sit down and talk honestly about our marriage and future. I can get you a flight home today at 11am pst if you want to do that. If you would rather stay the day, that is understandable. I love you with all my heart. I am crazy - in love with you.

I doubt he will call. I had written a letter last week that I was planning on sending him today. This is what it says:

To my husband,
I know that it has been brutal for you over the past couple of months. I know that you are trying with all of your heart to find a way to give me another chance and find a way to be happy again. You are an incredible man for doing this and I will always be grateful for the chance you have given me to just be with you through this extremely painful time. The pain you have, are and will go through is indescribable and I can only imagine the hurt and betrayal you must feel towards the woman you married. I will be forever sorry for that my love. I pray every day for God to ease some of the pain that I have so cruelly inflicted on you and I will spend the rest of my life trying to make up for that if given the chance.

I want to first make some apologies to you. I may have said I am sorry in the past, but I want to make sure that you know everything that I recognize that I have done to you. 
•	I am sorry that I turned to someone else – for anything
•	I am sorry that I had an emotional and physical affair
•	I am sorry that I have embarrassed you and shamed you
•	I am sorry that I lied continuously to you about the affair and made you feel like you had to question yourself and your instincts
•	I am sorry that I prolonged the pain these last few months – I should have been honest about everything from the start and not trickled the truth – I understand now that it just made it worse and prolonged your agony
•	I am sorry that I haven’t always done what you needed through this process – feeling sorry for myself instead of you, getting angry at your reaction or feelings that were totally justifiable and understandable
•	I am sorry that I killed the woman you married and our marriage
•	I am sorry that I jeopardized our children’s future
•	I am sorry for crushing your belief in our love and your trust in me
•	I am sorry that I may have damaged any future relationship you may have with another woman
•	I am sorry for making you feel that you weren’t the amazing man and husband that you are

I always had thought that our love was that ‘once in a lifetime’ love everyone hopes to find but few actually do. I lost faith in that for a long time and actually thought even recently how naïve I was to believe in that. It is hard to believe that that is true when I look at what I have done to you – how could I do this to the love of my life? I was a coward that lacked character and gave up on you, us and even me.
I will never again turn my back on you. I will never again turn my back on us. I will never again turn my back on who I am. I will never again lack the character and integrity of being your wife.

Our love is that ‘once in a lifetime’ love and always will be. I wasn’t naïve in believing that, I was naïve and stupid because I took that precious gift you gave me for granted.

I know this time apart will be difficult for you, especially being in San Francisco. I know you will be looking for answers to the many questions that you have about our marriage. I just want you to remember some very important things as you try to make decisions about your future.
•	You have no responsibility in my affair – we both made a lot of mistakes and have been through some of life’s hardest events, but the affair has NOTHING to do with our previous problems – it was completely my choice
•	You are an incredible man and any woman would be lucky at even a chance to make you happy
•	My actions are not indicative of all woman and if you decide to move on without me, there is a lucky lady out there that deserves a chance with you
•	I want you to be happy, I truly do – even without me
•	If you want a divorce, I will split my income 50/50 with you regardless of what any court would say until you get another job and even then I would supplement the income so that we have the same income until you are financially stable, regardless of how long that is.
o	If you choose to move, I will do everything in my power to support that as well. I do not want you to be stuck here if we divorce. I mean that.
•	I will always love you, no matter what happens

And some other things should you decide to stay with me….
•	I will never turn to someone else, woman or man, friend or co-worker, to make me feel good about myself
•	I will always be completely transparent about everything
•	I will always be honest with you
•	I will not lie by omission
•	I will not try and control you by not giving you the entire truth
•	I will never place a timetable on recovering from the affair and understand that this process could take months, years, decades
•	I will do everything in my power to earn your trust and I will never betray you again
•	I will respect your opinion and abide by the boundaries we set in our marriage
•	I will love you and care for you no matter what the state of myself, you or our marriage
•	I will make you feel like you are the incredible, amazing man that you always have been
•	I will always be thankful that you gave me a second chance
•	I will never stop being sorry for what I have done to you
•	I will never forget what I did to you or the love you show me by staying with me
•	I will be the wife you deserve
•	I will do anything and everything to protect our marriage and our family
•	I will never leave you
•	I will always love you

I hope with everything that is inside of me that we will get through this and find each other again. There is nothing more important to me than our marriage and your happiness. Please let me prove that to you, please let me make you happy again, please give me the honor of being your wife. I see my entire future happiness in your eyes only and I know I can make you happy my love, I just know it with everything that I am, I know it.

So as you walk the streets of the city we fell in love, know that I am there walking with you. I know it is painful for you but I hope you can remember some of the incredible and special moments that we shared in SF. Nothing and no one can touch those memories. I know it is hard right now to see through the pain that I have caused you and remember the love we once shared, but it is there my love, it is here still. It always will be regardless if we are together in the end. 

Our love will always be the once in a lifetime love. We both know that in our hearts. I know I have given you every reason to walk away, just give your heart a minute to see that love again. I hope to God we are holding hands in the end, but regardless of our ending, I will always love you with everything that I am and no one will ever take that away – it is unconditional.
With love always,
Me


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> •	I am sorry that I may have damaged any future relationship you may have with another woman


This part struck me as not needed. 

Why do you assume your affair will damage his future relationships rather than improve them. 

It's not good to predict the future or make assumptions when communicating with someone after an affair. 

But, in the end, you need to do what feels best to you. just suggesting.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> This part struck me as not needed.
> 
> Why do you assume your affair will damage his future relationships rather than improve them.
> 
> ...



He told me that he would never trust another woman again and that he would never marry another woman. That I ruined that for him.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> I texted him this an hour ago.
> 
> U;m sorry I went off the deep end and even mentioned the word divorce. I do not want that and will never say that word again. I love you and know you are in an immense amount of pain. I am sorry every day for that. We need to sit down and talk honestly about our marriage and future. I can get you a flight home today at 11am pst if you want to do that. If you would rather stay the day, that is understandable. I love you with all my heart. I am crazy - in love with you.
> 
> ...


excellent start. But R is a very long road. Its painful and its hard. It requires self reflection(on both parts) and patience(mostly from you). I asked about MC???

and if he does respond negatively - DO NOT- I repeat- DO NOT get aggressive or nasty. He is lashing out from pain. Let him vent. You dropped the D word- its deserving of some tough language.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> excellent start. But R is a very long road. Its painful and its hard. It requires self reflection(on both parts) and patience(mostly from you). I asked about MC???
> 
> and if he does respond negatively - DO NOT- I repeat- DO NOT get aggressive or nasty. He is lashing out from pain. Let him vent. You dropped the D word- its deserving of some tough language.


We talked about it but haven't done anything with it. We both believe that in some way talking about the state of our marriage before the A in some way justifies it.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> We talked about it but haven't done anything with it. We both believe that in some way talking about the state of our marriage before the A in some way justifies it.


What? No. when a marriage is bad there are options.

1. MC
2. ignore it an go on
3. work it out together w/o counseling
4. cheat

Obviously 2 and 4 wont work. You are both responsible for the state of your marriage prior to the A. It sounds like he's no prince himself. Walking all over boundaries all along. But not quite having affairs???? You both knew there were significant problems and you both ignored them and looked to other people to make yourselves feel better. YOU just took it a few steps further(?). I have some suspicion that he did too, I will add. But there's no proof of that so we can only deal with what he know- You had an affair. so that is the real bomb in your marriage right now. That is what requires triage. Then you can work on the marital strife. 

NO amount of marital issues can justify an affair. If that were true- every BS would be entitled to cheat- we arent. We are entitled to D you. Or R if its an option for both parties. BUT we are NOT entitled to give our hearts, minds or bodies to another other than our spouse. My H had a year long EA. Broke my heart. I am entitled to require lots of things. I am entitled to D him should I decide I cannot R. I am not permitted to turn to another man for comfort. I very recently had that opportunity. I declined flatly. I love my H. I am married. I will remain faithful to him unless and until we are no longer married. Those are your H's options. THose were your options. You botched it. Now if youre lucky, your H will give you the opportunity to fix it. But he has alot of work to do himself.


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Yup, just sitting back enjoying myself here knowing I destroyed my marriage and the man I love. God I feel great.
> 
> With all due respect, this has nothing to do with being a martyr. What do you think the 180 is all about. Begging someone to not cheat on you or letting play out and moving on?


You cheated, that damaged your marriage. Sitting back and just 'watching' him do further damage so the score can be 'even' and now you can have something to hold over him isn't right either. I apologize for coming on a bit strong with the martyr comment but that's truly how you were sounding. 

I originally tuned in to this to hear some of the other folks talk about boundaries and such. Hubby started texting another woman about a month ago (mutual friend). She's going through a nasty divorce. When the texting started getting out of hand and she started talking about their sexual life, etc., I stepped in and told him I wasn't comfortable with where things were going. He told her that while WE are always there for her as a friend, this type of contact was damaging to OUR marriage - period.

This is how people who want to work on things handle problems - they talk about it directly. Sitting and watching but not talking about the issue isn't addressing it. 

Holy passive aggressiveness Batman. 

I get you're hurting and you THINK you have no right to say anything but that just isn't true. That's like saying all BS' have the right to be abusive to their WS - no one here is stating that.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> He told me that he would never trust another woman again and that he would never marry another woman. That I ruined that for him.


A betrayed spouse may feel that way initially, but being cheated on trains the betrayed spouse to look for the clues in a new spouse that they were naive to with the straying spouse. 

My wife gave me too much freedom. I misused it. Taking me back hurt her to some degree, too, because on an unconscious level it said she would always forgive my straying. 

Part of the reason I am so sad is that my wife will now likely find a man who treats her the way I should have. 

I wish i did not have the compulsions to cheat. I wish I had stopped after the first go 'round.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

theroad said:


> Because a WS has an affair does not mean that the BS can all of a sudden decide to not maintain boundaries and get on the slippery slope to start an EA/PA.
> 
> That is not recovering.
> 
> That is cheating.


He just found out his wife had an affair 2 months ago. What ****ing boundaries are you talking about? In his eyes the marriage never even existed so all of a sudden he should put aside his pain and worry about his WS's concerns? Yes in *principle* it's unwise to have a revenge affair (assuming that he even is) but look what he's getting at home? A totally unremorseful wife who's hell bent of rug sweeping the entire thing like that other character amyd is proposing. Why should he even reconcile in these circumstances? Who else do you think he's going to turn to? Do you honestly believe after all he's been through for the last 2 months, his number 1 priority is to tend to his "marital" responsibilities and worry about "boundaries"?

Him respecting marital boundaries after an A is a privilege given to the WS, not a right.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

My take, but I’ll admit I am projecting my own experiences into this.
First, never ever assume “you know what he is thinking”. You don’t have those superpowers and you are dealing with a person who’s experienced probably the most traumatic thing he has ever been through. So, you don’t know this man, particularly if he isn’t a talker. What humans do with the “unknown” is fill in the blanks with how we would act or be in that situation: Empathy. Yet that is a double edged sword since you are a wayward. If you were extremely mad at your husband, and didn’t value the marriage.... YOU would have an affair. That is how you wired yourself.

Your husband probably has never been in this situation, so you have no idea or experience with how he’d handle it.

It is extremely common that a wayward believes and will get very paranoid that their BS is going to, or is having, an affair. It is part of the script. It is also why I told you yesterday to call him, explain how insane you are feeling, and go through it all. Bare your soul, even if you believe he’ll think you are mental. If your marriage is going to survive, you had better learn very fast to just talk about your innermost thoughts and feelings. That will actually help him a lot more than theorizing about what he is thinking or how he perceives you. Don’t you see that you are reacting to things you don’t even know and have just assumed? You are taking actions based on intuition... And even you should recognize that your intuition hasn’t served you well... Did your affairs work out for you? Nope. So stick to what you do know: Yourself! That is the woman he fell in love with.... flaws and all. Don’t manipulate that projection out of fear of being judged. Bare that soul, your fears, your insecurities, your irrational thoughts, your nightmares, etc. Do not stop talking.

It is also extremely common that a BH will ‘test the waters’ so he feels that he is still an attractive option in the open dating market. Is it right? I don’t care... It helps you to think more clearly. I did it because I wanted to rule out that I stayed because I feared being alone. I would also note that it has been my experience those BH’s who entered a marriage with less than 4 past relationships often do this. (Those with more might be looking for revenge only already knowing women want them) Oddly enough, the only BH’s I know who are still married to their fWW’s had near, or very near EA’s with OW. That was the catylst that ‘woke up’ their wives that they were losing their husbands and infuriate them enough that some OW would see in them something else besides the doormat. Gaming your wife.

And lastly... Threats or marital advice from a wayward to their BS is not a smart move. You have already devalued his respect of your opinions on those matters. It doesn’t mean you are wrong... it means he isn’t going to listen to you because of who you are and what you represent. 

btw; Your text to him was ideal. You admitted your insanity. Build on that.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Complexity said:


> He just found out his wife had an affair 2 months ago. What ****ing boundaries are you talking about? In his eyes the marriage never even existed so all of a sudden he should put aside his pain and worry about his WS's concerns? Yes in *principle* it's unwise to have a revenge affair (assuming that he even is) but look what he's getting at home? A totally unremorseful wife who's hell bent of rug sweeping the entire thing like that other character amyd is proposing. Why should he even reconcile in these circumstances? Who else do you think he's going to turn to? Do you honestly believe after all he's been through for the last 2 months, his number 1 priority is to tend to his "marital" responsibilities and worry about "boundaries"?


The boundaries we both agreed to a month ago. He's not having an affair - he crossed a boundary we both agreed we need to have to move forward. He's angry and devastated and crossed the boundary - fine, I'm ok with that.

And where exactly do you see that I am rug sweeping and unremorseful?


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> The boundaries we both agreed to a month ago. He's not having an affair - he crossed a boundary we both agreed we need to have to move forward. He's angry and devastated and crossed the boundary - fine, I'm ok with that.
> 
> And where exactly do you see that I am rug sweeping and unremorseful?


You are likely remorseful. Still the good people here are trying to point out the mistakes you are making. 

I made similar mistakes. Don't do it. Your betrayed spouse is confused, hurt, feeling unattractive, feeling used, feeling stupid, feeling unloved, feeling duped, feeling worthless. 

Understanding all those things, may help you react better to his described behaviors. 

Also, keep the phone glued to you and turn the ringer to mega high volume. Don't ever let a call go unanswered. It will only make him distrustful.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

Complexity said:


> He just found out his wife had an affair 2 months ago. What ****ing boundaries are you talking about? In his eyes the marriage never even existed so all of a sudden he should put aside his pain and worry about his WS's concerns? Yes in *principle* it's unwise to have a revenge affair (assuming that he even is) but look what he's getting at home? A totally unremorseful wife who's hell bent of rug sweeping the entire thing like that other character amyd is proposing. Why should he even reconcile in these circumstances? Who else do you think he's going to turn to? Do you honestly believe after all he's been through for the last 2 months, his number 1 priority is to tend to his "marital" responsibilities and worry about "boundaries"?
> 
> Him respecting marital boundaries after an A is a privilege given to the WS, not a right.


I don't like being referred to as "that other character." Please don't do this again.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Complexity said:


> He just found out his wife had an affair 2 months ago. What ****ing boundaries are you talking about? In his eyes the marriage never even existed so all of a sudden he should put aside his pain and worry about his WS's concerns? Yes in *principle* it's unwise to have a revenge affair (assuming that he even is) but look what he's getting at home? A totally unremorseful wife who's hell bent of rug sweeping the entire thing like that other character amyd is proposing. Why should he even reconcile in these circumstances? Who else do you think he's going to turn to? Do you honestly believe after all he's been through for the last 2 months, his number 1 priority is to tend to his "marital" responsibilities and worry about "boundaries"?
> 
> Him respecting marital boundaries after an A is a privilege given to the WS, not a right.


Ok. Complexity, I agree with you alot. BUT here we gotta split.

are you saying that RA's are acceptable? Even to be expected? That he isnt honor bound to uphold his vows until such a time that he either D's her or they at very least separate???

My H cheated- I do not see it as a license to reciprocate. If I cannot uphold my vows I have the option of D'ing him....I do not have the option of screwing my old BF.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Ok. Complexity, I agree with you alot. BUT here we gotta split.
> 
> are you saying that RA's are acceptable? Even to be expected? That he isnt honor bound to uphold his vows until such a time that he either D's her or they at very least separate???
> 
> My H cheated- I do not see it as a license to reciprocate. If I cannot uphold my vows I have the option of D'ing him....I do not have the option of screwing my old BF.


Finally. The voice of reason.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Glad to hear canttrustu was here to put common sense here. Please read carefully all her posts.
Glad to hear Racer chimed in to see the big picture.
Glad to hear you calmed down. You handled it wrong. Keep you head cool, reagroup. Hope it's a bump in the rollercoast of hell, you can overcome this.

Sending positive vibes so you guys resolve it when he's back.


----------



## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> RAs are not acceptable, but they certainly are, unfortunately, to be expected. In these cases it is an expression of rage. They are not called revenge affairs for nothing.
> 
> You and I know that we spend a lot of time dissuading newly BS from taking this precise course of action.


However, in this case it appears the emails started prior to the wife's affair so perhaps the ex girl friend was ALWAYS on the back burner. Remember the wife found some of the emails. My guess there were plenty of others that were composed and deleted. But then again, this story might be half fiction. What do I know?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> RAs are not acceptable, but they certainly are, unfortunately, to be expected. In these cases it is an expression of rage. They are not called revenge affairs for nothing.
> 
> You and I know that we spend a lot of time dissuading newly BS from taking this precise course of action.


No doubt. Expected and accepted are very different. That was my only point. I agree, its a risk WS' take when they choose to involve someone else in their marriage. Im merely saying that it shouldnt be completely excused. However, there is an element of mercy IF and big IF here, it was indeed about Revenge. Sounds like the H has been up to a few 'no goods' himself. But as I said before, we can only deal with the facts before us. 

Op-what we are saying is that when a BS is that emotionally distraught sometimes they do things that under normal circumstances they wouldnt do. They react instead of respond. Two very different concepts. A RA is an emotional response to the pain inflicted by an affair. NOT acceptable. However, it does indeed happen which is why(if you read my early posts) I told you he was particularly vulnerable right now and that you couldnt let her get her claws in him at this stage of the game. remember I said "he is vulnerable and she is trying to get your H's pants off.... so do something" I was trying to help you prevent a RA.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

UnforgivableWife said:


> The boundaries we both agreed to a month ago. He's not having an affair - he crossed a boundary we both agreed we need to have to move forward. He's angry and devastated and crossed the boundary - fine, I'm ok with that.
> 
> And where exactly do you see that I am rug sweeping and unremorseful?


Whatever agreement you had, I suggest you take it with a grain of salt. Given how raw his emotion are and indeed the emotional roller-coaster he's going through, I doubt he's holding any weight to it. His actions appear to confirm this.

Second, all you've done for the past 2 months is wallow in self pity and feel sorry for yourself. You actually confirmed in one of your posts so if you think that's what entails remorse, you seriously need to get your priorities together. Additionally, throughout your posts, you've "lamented" that he won't be able to get past this and that he's going to define you by your A, that he won't love you again. That's incredibly self centred. You're just pushing for reconciliation without understanding the gravity of your actions and all of a sudden assuming this high horse when it comes to boundaries and what not.



Amyd said:


> I don't like being referred to as "that other character." Please don't do this again.


I had other words for you but for the sake of being polite I didn't express them.


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Wow!

I like to lurk and enjoy dissecting my past with a WW. It makes me a better man.

No offense, but this post is just one more thing that makes me realize that my similar story ended for the best. A divorce and a fresh start. Lol!

It is amazing to me that cheaters can turn so quickly into victims, controllers, and entitled spouses. Please be aware of how your tone or words can do this.

Where did all of the good women go? I am wondering if my new wife is the last one... 

I honestly hope that you can learn from your bad choices, and that your husband can find the peace *HE* needs. 

May God bless him. Please listen to these people, and give him his freedom. *Let him choose without your manipulation*. He deserves that from you. 

Hopefully both of you can use the wisdom from this horrible year to become better spouses, with each other, or with someone new.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> Ok. Complexity, I agree with you alot. BUT here we gotta split.
> 
> are you saying that RA's are acceptable? Even to be expected? That he isnt honor bound to uphold his vows until such a time that he either D's her or they at very least separate???
> 
> My H cheated- I do not see it as a license to reciprocate. If I cannot uphold my vows I have the option of D'ing him....I do not have the option of screwing my old BF.


No I'm not suggesting this at all. Revenge affairs are completely inappropriate. They don't achieve anything and essentially rob the BS of any reason to hold grudges. However, I myself will not shed any crocodile tears for the WS because their BS done it. I don't see any reason to. Yes the actions of the WS doesn't give you the right to reciprocate them but again, I certainly won't hold a hammer over the BS for doing it. I just see it as an unwise move that just complicates the situation. Holding true to morals and personal values in these circumstances are in my opinion, a privilege given to the WS. I'm consciously choosing through my morals not to hurt you the same way you hurt me, even though you'd don't deserve it. That's why I say it's a privilege.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Complexity said:


> No I'm not suggesting this at all. Revenge affairs are completely inappropriate. They don't achieve anything and essentially rob the BS of any reason to hold grudges. However, I myself will not shed any crocodile tears for the WS because their BS done it. I don't see any reason to. Yes the actions of the WS doesn't give you the right to reciprocate them but again, I certainly won't hold a hammer over the BS for doing it. I just see it as an unwise move that just complicates the situation. Holding true to morals and personal values in these circumstances are in my opinion, a privilege given to the WS. I'm consciously choosing through my moral not to hurt you the same way you hurt me, even though you'd don't deserve it. That's why I say it's a privilege.


gotcha. Hold a hammer-no. But hopefully even thru our most painful moments most of us can see that this would only serve to complicate matters. I definately see HOW it happens. That is exactly why I was encouraging her to not stand by and be so hands off and playing the martyr. He is exceptionally vulnerable. She let another man.....well we know. Anyway, yeah he needed to be reigned in. How she did it I disagree with and I think she gets that too. But now she has to deal with that too. But I'd still take that over watching my H climb on top of some other chick...Just my .02.

and lastly, my fidelity is as much a gift to myself by being honorable as it it to my H. And while some would argue that right now he isnt deserving of that fidelity, I could even agree to some degree. However, I wont dishonor myself or the vow I made to forsake all others. IF/when I choose that I cannot uphold those vows its time to D him. So I guess Im saying fidelity is not ONLY for them.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Lovemytruck said:


> It is amazing to me that cheaters can turn so quickly into victims, controllers, and entitled spouses. Please be aware of how your tone or words can do this.


18 pages and this is the best post I've read so far


----------



## margrace (Aug 12, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> You are likely remorseful. Still the good people here are trying to point out the mistakes you are making.
> 
> I made similar mistakes. Don't do it. Your betrayed spouse is confused, hurt, feeling unattractive, feeling used, feeling stupid, feeling unloved, feeling duped, feeling worthless.
> 
> ...


hi RS:

just read some of your posts and wanted to understand a little more about your perspective. in terms of the mistakes that you mention, why prostitutes? and was that straying different for you than the A that you had afterward?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Complexity said:


> 18 pages and this is the best post I've read so far


OH, Im wounded.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> OH, Im wounded.


lol, he simply summed up all my thoughts in just 2 sentences. You know I always value your insights/opinions


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Complexity said:


> lol, he simply summed up all my thoughts in just 2 sentences. You know I always value your insights/opinions


Yeah, sometimes Im too wordy. I know. wish I were more concise but its not my nature I suppose.

And thank you. Unfortunately its hard earned experience....


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Not to thread jack, but....

Complexity, Cantrustu, et al, YOUR words have saved my sanity, and my dignity.

This forum is a Godsend. You may never know how many people have learned from your posts. Most probably never have posted.

Thank YOU!


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> Not to thread jack, but....
> 
> Complexity, Cantrustu, et al, YOUR words have saved my sanity, and my dignity.
> 
> ...


thanks, you have a thread with your story?


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Some threads resonate with certain "regulars" more than others. And once you invest your emotional energy, you want to see it through, and see how it works out for the couple involved. 

I do think this is salvagable, but it's not going to be easy. I hope it works out for you both.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Some threads resonate with certain "regulars" more than others. And once you invest your emotional energy, you want to see it through, and see how it works out for the couple involved.
> 
> I do think this is salvagable, but it's not going to be easy. I hope it works out for you both.


You callin' me a 'regular'????:rofl:


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

margrace said:


> hi RS:
> 
> just read some of your posts and wanted to understand a little more about your perspective. in terms of the mistakes that you mention, why prostitutes? and was that straying different for you than the A that you had afterward?


I almost missed this. 

To answer: I chose a prostitute because I thought it would be less complicated and messy than an affair. 

It was and it wasn't. It was one prostitute I saw again and again, and my wife did not like that aspect or any aspect of me doing a prostitute. 

It's wrong. I know that, and physically dangerous. I really can't explain my compulsion to do it beyond it being a compulsion. To my mind using a prostitute is cheating. It seems like it isn't, but it is.

I went from a prostitute to a affair with a non pro. because I swore to my wife I would never see another prostitute. In my warped mind going to a regular person who did not have sex for money and was interested in me just for me, was adhering to my promise to my wife. 

It got messy because the other women wanted more. She was unhappy in her marriage and thought she would be happier with me. i doubt that, but that is what she thought. 

I am not looking for sympathy. I effed up and betrayed my wife whom I love dearly. I am doing penance by hoping to guide others away from any similar compulsions they may succumb to.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

We have had several very calm conversations this morning. I told him I was sorry I handled the whole thing in a very selfish way and that I was not being understanding of the feelings and anguish that he is dealing with. I flipped out and I think he very much could relate to that given what I have done to him.

I don't agree with the old GF thing, but I understand that the A put him in a position to find validation elsewhere. We told each other that we were going to get through this no matter what it took. I told him we could talk about what happened when he is home and to enjoy his day in the city. Divorce has been stripped from our vocabulary - period.

He is going to text the old GF today and tell her to never contact him again. He had no problem with that.

We both have good days and bad. Some days I feel sorry for myself - yup I do. Some days do I lose a little faith - yup I do. Some days do I just **** up royally - yup I do. Some days am I a total idiot in how I handle my H - yup I am. But I will not stop trying and learning to help him and our marriage.

Neither one of us is perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but we love each other more than anything. And he is a saint to still be in this hell I put us both in. We will find our way out though.

Thank you to all of you for your advice. It has really helped me come down off the ledge and put my anger aside to see again what I have done to my BH. Some of you really suck, but a lot of it was good advice.

One day I will post my whole story - that one is going to floor you - but I'll wait until we are a little further down the road to R.

Love you all - even the bulldogs!


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> We have had several very calm conversations this morning. I told him I was sorry I handled the whole thing in a very selfish way and that I was not being understanding of the feelings and anguish that he is dealing with. I flipped out and I think he very much could relate to that given what I have done to him.
> 
> I don't agree with the old GF thing, but I understand that the A put him in a position to find validation elsewhere. We told each other that we were going to get through this no matter what it took. I told him we could talk about what happened when he is home and to enjoy his day in the city. Divorce has been stripped from our vocabulary - period.
> 
> ...


Well good luck. Read some books. NJF and After the Affair. PLUG IN! LISTEN. Get some counseling. sorry if I sucked.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Well good luck. Read some books. NJF and After the Affair. PLUG IN! LISTEN. Get some counseling. sorry if I sucked.


You actually helped me the most. And yes you did suck some of the time - but you were also right most of the time.

My husband and I both thank you.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> You actually helped me the most. And yes you did suck some of the time - but you were also right most of the time.
> 
> My husband and I both thank you.


Happy to have sucked in a helpful kind of way then. Let us know if we can help further. 

Good luck. Remember, he is unsure, scared and hurt. However, its not a pass to cheat for him either. Keep your eye on the ball. Verify NC for him and that GF.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Honey, you need to slow down. I know the emotions are running really high. But you need to take a breath and let life settle for a bit. Talk to a friend. Something. Don't disintegrate your family automatically.


And Gabriel - this was the one message this morning that just stopped me spiraling out of control. Thank you.


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> We have had several very calm conversations this morning. I told him I was sorry I handled the whole thing in a very selfish way and that I was not being understanding of the feelings and anguish that he is dealing with. I flipped out and I think he very much could relate to that given what I have done to him.
> 
> I don't agree with the old GF thing, but I understand that the A put him in a position to find validation elsewhere. We told each other that we were going to get through this no matter what it took. I told him we could talk about what happened when he is home and to enjoy his day in the city. Divorce has been stripped from our vocabulary - period.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup:

Yay!!! This is a great start! The communication is key and you've started down that path.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

also as a final note- I just wanted to say how refreshing it is to have a poster come here and ask a question and actually act on the advice!!!! THANK YOU for not being an asKhole. You didnt know what to do so you listened to more experienced people. Its good to know everyone isnt a know it all. I was in a thread by a BS that left me wanting to pull my hair out. Paralysis of analysis is no good.

*AsKhole- a person who asks your advice and then does the opposite*.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Great, great latest posts.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> We talked about it but haven't done anything with it. We both believe that in some way talking about the state of our marriage before the A in some way justifies it.


I can't hold back any longer. Since I have written a comment...only yesterday...so many pages to get through. And the feeling I have got since reading further, along with your original posts, is totally overwhelming.

Before I write what I feel strongly from your story, I want to say that that letter you have written is truly magnificent! All WS should take a leaf from your book. And the fact that you have come to this forum looking for help to fix your marriage that you damaged speaks volumes. VOLUMES! 

If only all waywards were so remorseful. Remorseful words, and actions, being open to talking, and fixing, makes the hurt heal so much easier. I wish my wayward showed some of what you do. 

I think though, you must ensure you don't become a doormat to him and his hurt in the process. You could cause him to walk all over you if there is no balance. And a betrayed, hurt, angry spouse can also be as damaging to a relationship if their behaviour is left unchecked. If he becomes too righteous in his hurt, using his hurt to justify bad behaviour, this will cause as much damage as the A. It takes TWO to R! 

Anyway...What I have is an overwhelming feeling of his actions that are bordering on exactly what you did. Before your A. And obviously since. I would even go so far as to say he has already cheated (though only you know if there are any signs that this happened). His actions of being in touch with this woman, innapropriate messages, and his gaslighting and manipulating you with his answers...he didn't own what he did. He said it was nothing. That you were overreacting, that you were making something out of nothing. That is cheater speak. I am very worried by this. And I think your guilt and remorse are allowing him to get away with it. Allowing him to minimise the contact with this woman as well as the content of what he was saying 2 years ago...he is minimizing and avoiding. Avoiding mainly by covering all his actions with an accusation at you. Your affair is allowing him to avoid answering to all his actions, before and after your affair. And you must NOT allow this!


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> also as a final note- I just wanted to say how refreshing it is to have a poster come here and ask a question and actually act on the advice!!!! THANK YOU for not being an asKhole. You didnt know what to do so you listened to more experienced people. Its good to know everyone isnt a know it all. I was in a thread by a BS that left me wanting to pull my hair out. Paralysis of analysis is no good.
> 
> *AsKhole- a person who asks your advice and then does the opposite*.


If you don't know what to do, they say go to the experts. Unfortunately for many of you, you are the experts in this area. But your pain and past experiences are helping others and certainly helped me and my BH.


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Can I be an expert at something else please...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Remains said:


> I can't hold back any longer. Since I have written a comment...only yesterday...so many pages to get through. And the feeling I have got since reading further, along with your original posts, is totally overwhelming.
> 
> Before I write what I feel strongly from your story, I want to say that that letter you have written is truly magnificent! All WS should take a leaf from your book. And the fact that you have come to this forum looking for help to fix your marriage that you damaged speaks volumes. VOLUMES!
> 
> ...


I struggle every day with trying to do the right thing and God have I ****ed up many days which only made it worse for my BH. I have been on this site so many hours my BH even told me I was obsessing. I only wished my BH had found this to help him during and leading up to the separation, although he did the 180 all on his own. Just the way he is wired. This site has helped me more than any book or friend. So BIG thank you to all of you. I have been reading since the beginning of Sept but just started to post.

As far as the doormat. Yes, this is difficult. I am no push over of a woman and can be extremely controlling and demanding. It has been very hard for me to learn to shut my mouth and let him just vent irrespective of my feelings or thoughts. Very hard. But one thing I have learned on this site is that you really need to just let the BS vent, doesn't matter if he's screaming that the sky is red, just be there for them. There are still times I just can't let it continue - just last night actually. But I'm getting better at it. 

The other really big thing that my BH taught me through this is that I CANNOT control this and by TT and not telling him all the details that that was exactly what I was doing. I wasn't giving him the choice he deserves with all the facts. I did that through our entire marriage - not A, but other stuff like lunches with male co-workers,etc because I didn't want my H to get mad, etc. He is protective of me - not crazy or anything, just protective. I used to like that about him and then I started to resent him for it. He was on the money of course and that is now a boundary for me - no lunches, drinks etc alone with another man - that was my choice.

The hard part for me is to know when it really is ok and makes sense to push back. This incident with the old GF - no way I'm going to just let that go. I asked him today to call her and tell her to never contact him again. He did that. I asked him to take her off FB, he did that too. Much more to discuss about this though when he gets home, but I want to do that in person. Has he cheated, no I don't believe he has. Has he had some inappropriate conversations with OW, yes. Has he lied, yes. If continued, could it turn into a EA/PA, of course. The big part is that I know he knows this, but he's not yet ready to admit it to me given the circumstances. I get that. That conversation is going to suck big time, so I really need to mentally prepare for that and stay calm for him. I am not going to let him minimize it but I do need to remember where he is and what he is feeling. Having your wife who had an A for a year tell you that some texts messages and contact were inappropriate, well you can guess what he is going to feel. So I am really going to have to think and be prepared for anything and everything.

But for now, I'm excited for my H to come home in the morning and he is excited to be coming home. I just want a few days of normal, although our normal lately has been pretty ****ed up, but at least we will be together!


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> You callin' me a 'regular'????:rofl:


You have over 1500 posts! Hells yeah you are a regular!


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

UnforgivableWife said:


> And Gabriel - this was the one message this morning that just stopped me spiraling out of control. Thank you.


Wow, awesome. Feels good to make a difference once in awhile.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Wow, awesome. Feels good to make a difference once in awhile.


Huge difference. I was ready to call my attorney or throw myself over the deck (figuratively speaking). I hope you all know how much you really do help. Never been to MC but I'd take you all over a MC any day. You are the experts, for better or worse.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

First off, do not “push back”. It’s something you need to learn to do, and it is hard as hell for someone who is used to making demands and controlling situations. Learn to give up the idea that you control him at all. You are starting to see this. Just stick into your head that you are a open book. When things bother you, don’t push or make demands, express what you believe, what’s going through your head, and how you feel. Do it even if you feel like it’s crazy (and let him know that too) Let him decide what to do with that information.

Another tip... Frustration and anxiety is going to run very high on both sides. Little things like a bad day at work ARE going to push you over the edge. So, learn to pop that cork in healthier ways... Have a discussion about those kinds of arguments. The purpose is to blow off steam instead of keeping it bottled. Make sure you both understand that and consider it “scream therapy” or whatever. Open up with “I need to rant.” It sets the purpose of this explosion and pick the little thing to rage on (not the affairs or real marriage issues). And go off on whatever set you over the edge like the toilet seat being up again. With my wife, I love these things... Because I get to adopt a persona or character to counterpoint; It’s not my fault... whine, make outrageous excuses, and lying through my teeth (basically things she did as a foggy wayward)... I’ll egg her on and escalate. There will be boundaries, but usually after these, we laugh at the silliness of it all. During the first few months of R; We’ve almost divorced over how insensitive I am for not noticing the new laundry bin, and how when she loads the dishwasher its wrong. The joint shared insanity bonds. He’ll need to let himself rage every now and again too. Better to do it with each other than to friends, co-workers, etc.


----------



## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

What Racer states is true. We all want to have retribution from the person who does us wrong.

Your husband is probably in that state since it is so soon after D day.

You both need to sit down and discuss this about how the two of you are going to go forward along with neither doing inappropriate things that will cause a problem in the marriage.

Difficult yes, because your marriage is now an open wound because of the Affair and little things will set each of you off.

You need to heal what you have done with your husband and your husband must still respect you and treat you in the honorable way a man treats his wife.

The Affair by you does not relieve him of his moral duties as a Husband and you both need to understand this.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

rrrbbbttt said:


> The Affair by you does not relieve him of his moral duties as a Husband and you both need to understand this.


This.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Racer said:


> First off, do not “push back”. It’s something you need to learn to do, and it is hard as hell for someone who is used to making demands and controlling situations. Learn to give up the idea that you control him at all. You are starting to see this. Just stick into your head that you are a open book. When things bother you, don’t push or make demands, express what you believe, what’s going through your head, and how you feel. Do it even if you feel like it’s crazy (and let him know that too) Let him decide what to do with that information.
> 
> Another tip... Frustration and anxiety is going to run very high on both sides. Little things like a bad day at work ARE going to push you over the edge. So, learn to pop that cork in healthier ways... Have a discussion about those kinds of arguments. The purpose is to blow off steam instead of keeping it bottled. Make sure you both understand that and consider it “scream therapy” or whatever. Open up with “I need to rant.” It sets the purpose of this explosion and pick the little thing to rage on (not the affairs or real marriage issues). And go off on whatever set you over the edge like the toilet seat being up again. With my wife, I love these things... Because I get to adopt a persona or character to counterpoint; It’s not my fault... whine, make outrageous excuses, and lying through my teeth (basically things she did as a foggy wayward)... I’ll egg her on and escalate. There will be boundaries, but usually after these, we laugh at the silliness of it all. During the first few months of R; We’ve almost divorced over how insensitive I am for not noticing the new laundry bin, and how when she loads the dishwasher its wrong. The joint shared insanity bonds. He’ll need to let himself rage every now and again too. Better to do it with each other than to friends, co-workers, etc.


Good advice. Pushing at all is not going to get us anywhere.

I am an extremely private person and have always had a difficult time expressing my feelings. I have always bottled up my emotions, they build, I start to resent, and then at some point I just explode. Typically by blowing everything to hell. I guess I have just always had such a hard time trusting other people with my emotions and feelings that it just became part of who I am - bottle everything up, be strong and unemotional. Funny my husband has been telling me how self-destructive that is since we met. 

I do see now how unhealthy and damaging it is to not share your feelings with your spouse. Funny (well not funny), I was just about ready to type, "if you can't trust your spouse who can you trust". God I suck. 

Anyway, I think I am starting to understand a bit. Just starting with "I feel ...." rather than "You did this/Why did you do this?/Don't do this...." is a start for me. Always blaming someone for what I feel rather than just sharing it and giving them the choice to do something with that. I've been this way all of my life so it is not going to be easy, but it is the right way. I know this.

Thank you for the advice - you really did peg me on this.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Good advice. Pushing at all is not going to get us anywhere.
> 
> I am an extremely private person and have always had a difficult time expressing my feelings. I have always bottled up my emotions, they build, I start to resent, and then at some point I just explode. Typically by blowing everything to hell. I guess I have just always had such a hard time trusting other people with my emotions and feelings that it just became part of who I am - bottle everything up, be strong and unemotional. Funny my husband has been telling me how self-destructive that is since we met.
> 
> ...


Awesome start! And dont forget to apologize for the D word.


----------



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

And of course within an hour of my husband getting home today, he came onto this site and started to read this thread. I thought I would have had a couple of days before he might have looked up any posts since I haven't really made any up until this trip. He's sitting in the other room reading - ugghh. Transparency at it's best.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> And of course within an hour of my husband getting home today, he came onto this site and started to read this thread. I thought I would have had a couple of days before he might have looked up any posts since I haven't really made any up until this trip. He's sitting in the other room reading - ugghh. Transparency at it's best.


So, you haven't said anything negative. All you have said is that you want to work things out and you explained why you couldn't answer the phone. I think that is a good thing,


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

UnforgivableWife said:


> And of course within an hour of my husband getting home today, he came onto this site and started to read this thread. I thought I would have had a couple of days before he might have looked up any posts since I haven't really made any up until this trip. He's sitting in the other room reading - ugghh. Transparency at it's best.


It’s hard... He is going to be an emotional wreck and read between the lines. Also... watch your words. That sounds condescending to his feelings about all this. Like “oh poor you”. Nope, you caused this. You should be re-assuring him that its normal and fine for him to do it and that you are a little embarrassed by your own words and panic. Then go on to explain what changed and how you feel now about it all. Emotions and thoughts change all the time..

I keep this thought in my head; If all I seek is the worst, then the worst is all I will find. Its something you need to work on... him reading this is a bad thing? Work on that perception that maybe it isn’t bad at all he gets to see you all messed up and conflicted.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

can you get him to get on here?


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Hi, Mr. UW
She did screwed up. Royally.
She's trying. Very hard I'd say.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Hi, Mr. UW
> She did screwed up. Royally.
> She's trying. Very hard I'd say.


Yes. This is not easy for anyone. We know youre hurting. She's hurting. Lots of it going around. Maybe you could get an account and we could help you too?


----------



## cali_chick (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm sorry, I don't mean to dredge this up, but did you say that your H was texting a waitress at a bar that you 2 frequented, while you were traveling?

And this was prior to your affair? Or prior to him knowing that you were in an affair?

Sorry, just confused. Is the ex the waitress? I read the entire thread, and that part was never elaborated on.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Chin up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Hope things are going ok for you 2


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Maybe I'm jaded, but I can't help thinking about the fact that she posted all of this with the full knowledge intent of her BS reading it...


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Ovid said:


> Maybe I'm jaded, but I can't help thinking about the fact that she posted all of this with the full knowledge intent of her BS reading it...


what? WHats this. Jaded? Here on TAM. REALLY??? Dont know what youre talking about Ovid.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Ovid said:


> Maybe I'm jaded, but I can't help thinking about the fact that she posted all of this with the full knowledge intent of her BS reading it...


And I am believing that her BH is uncomfortable with this site as a lot of ‘advice’ points a finger toward him as being a ‘bad guy’ here... So, I doubt she’ll be posting anytime soon. I remember my own WW getting such advice and how that absolutely torqued me off considering she was the one who had, not all that long ago, had two boyfriends on the side. I wasn’t “unpleased” when she got banned for being the unremorseful WW she was since that advice fed her ‘entitled’ feeling that she was a victim.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Racer said:


> And I am believing that her BH is uncomfortable with this site as a lot of ‘advice’ points a finger toward him as being a ‘bad guy’ here... So, I doubt she’ll be posting anytime soon. I remember my own WW getting such advice and how that absolutely torqued me off considering she was the one who had, not all that long ago, had two boyfriends on the side. I wasn’t “unpleased” when she got banned for being the unremorseful WW she was since that advice fed her ‘entitled’ feeling that she was a victim.


good grief I hope this isnt true. Then I'd have trouble picking which of them needed IC the most....


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Racer said:


> And I am believing that her BH is uncomfortable with this site as a lot of ‘advice’ points a finger toward him as being a ‘bad guy’ here... So, I doubt she’ll be posting anytime soon. I remember my own WW getting such advice and how that absolutely torqued me off considering she was the one who had, not all that long ago, had two boyfriends on the side. I wasn’t “unpleased” when she got banned for being the unremorseful WW she was since that advice fed her ‘entitled’ feeling that she was a victim.


Always good to hear this side. And so sorry you had to go through that. 

I hope these two are working it out....and that they go to MC and truly cut all ties to anything or anyone that would impede their R.


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> what? WHats this. Jaded? Here on TAM. REALLY??? Dont know what youre talking about Ovid.


Strange I know...


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Racer said:


> And I am believing that her BH is uncomfortable with this site as a lot of ‘advice’ points a finger toward him as being a ‘bad guy’ here... So, I doubt she’ll be posting anytime soon. I remember my own WW getting such advice and how that absolutely torqued me off considering she was the one who had, not all that long ago, had two boyfriends on the side. I wasn’t “unpleased” when she got banned for being the unremorseful WW she was since that advice fed her ‘entitled’ feeling that she was a victim.


Hopefully he can feel comfortable posting here. 

In the end we know her side of the story is she cheated, and he may have had inappropriate contact. His side of the story may shed light on things she kept dark.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Ovid said:


> Hopefully he can feel comfortable posting here.
> 
> In the end we know her side of the story is she cheated, and he may have had inappropriate contact. His side of the story may shed light on things she kept dark.


Lol... he will. What I found is that at first, I was repulsed; like OMG, how can people show a wayward mercy or even remotely understand how different and unique this is in MY situation.

But you keep reading... Things start looking the same. You aren't unique.. You are compelled to read more, learn, etc.. Lurking, thinking.. Then you ask a few questions to someone you really empathize with and going through the same thoughts. Then you post your story and are accepted into the community. It helps knowing you aren't alone.


----------

