# Long Story



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm 51. Married 25 years. Been having typical marriage problems for a couple of years, but usually talked and got thru them. I have ADD/ADHD, but only officially diagnosed about 2 years ago and then again this year......So I will admit I can be taxing on my wife. We have a small business, things haven't been going as well as they were in the past, she's not as involved in the business as me, kids are older, one in college, one finished, she started going back to school for masters last fall. Reason i went back to get diagnosed this year? Major build up of angst...both of us! Anyhow, she looses it, tells me she can't go on living with my ups and downs, mood swings, anger, sporadic neglect, she feels like she's going to have a nervous breakdown. We have it out- Major argument- she breaks down starts crying, i completely sense this is different than all the other arguments. I go to hold her and she starts crying even more, we talk she tells me all she wants is me to hold her, need her, love her, etc. She's really loosing it and goes to our bedroom and says she need to take a hot shower...i follow her in, she's naked of course, i go to hug her/touch her and she recoils! I feel like i was hit with a 2x4 across the head! I realize how bad she's feeling and how I've been making her feel. Ok that's the start. We start talking, gets emotional, tell her i love her, I agree to go see a counselor/shrink and get on some meds for the ADD. Next day i happen to see a message on her cell phone from a mutual friend....more messages to other people, messages about me, about how's she's feeling about me, these message are to her sister, a female friend and 3 male friends. One of them my friend/attorney the other two men, one from the gym and the other a past teacher of my daughter's who she became friends with. These messages are very personal about me, about us, i get completely confused. What the F is going on??? Why is she sharing this stuff with other guys???
anyhow, after many weeks, snooping around her computer, emails, phone etc. i confront her and she tells me she had to talk to someone, she was lonely, i wasn't listen to her about how she was feeling, she just couldn't get thru "My Wall". I accept that and we start working it out. I ask her not to stop sharing this stuff, she agrees. I keep finding emails. Confront my friend/attorney (turns out he was just advising her about the marriage, but he and i go at it and the friendship is ended). The guy from the gym was just a guy she met in yoga who turns out had his own marital problems and he was just a listener. The other one , the teacher.... the emails i found were very, let's say revealing. He was having the same problems with his wife, they met for coffee a few times, he's a writer, like poetry, interested in a lot of the same things my wife is, etc. etc. Ask her if she had an affair with him. She said "NO, he's just a friend who would listen"! Asked again, asked what kind of stuff they discussed, asked if she would stop. She reluctantly said yes, even though she would be loosing a good friend. Ok, i thought good, got it handled. Found emails a few days later from my wife.....:can't not be friends, have to lay low for a while. We went to the counselor, got on meds, she talked about losing a few friends, counselor told us both he thought we loved each other, have to work at it, my ADD, etc. and that she knows what she did was inappropriate and that she need to end that relationship. She agrees. I agree. I start really trying...talking, listening, flowers, little notes, ....she loves it ! I keep finding emails...she, "Why are you spying" She stops again....More emails. this went on for 2 1/2 months Feb 15th - May). Things get better, we go on are 25th anniversary >>>>Florida. Have a great time. Come back. More emails! she finally send him a email saying how this is affecting her relationship with me and how it's causing friction between us. emails stop. Promises to stop corresponding with him , won't even respond to him. Counseling continues. I can't get it out of mind...have this feeling, sense something is just not right. She's taking summer classes, it's June now and we never she each other, things start going downhill. I get more and more bad feelings, putting everything over the last 4 months . Start asking questions. Go to counselor 2 weeks ago, we have discussion about if i'm happy with my self, blah blah, trust, he everything is on the table, he confirms she's truthful about everything, hell, he almost even convinces me. We go home, she says it was a real good meeting. Last Thursday i work from home, go get something from the kitchen and walk past the computer....Just had a feeling, tried not to, but went on her history and guess what i found ???? SHe was using a email address she says " i never use that email" and guess who she was talking to again? Oh yeah, the teacher. I get all crazy, but clam down and calmly confront her about it. We were drinking wine on the patio when i did. She gets all pissed, admits she had a emotional affair with him, admits she lied to me and the counselor! Apparently it started as friends, emotional got heavy early spring of 2011, he started getting "feelings" for her she got worried and stopped talking. Then started up again in summer of 2011... continuing with the "emotional" affair until February, even wrote about it in her journal...about a fantasy she knew she couldn't have, but wondered how it would be. She says that's it was was only emotional "nothing" happened, physical that is. I remember seeing an email exchange from them and she was saying how she'd have to stop being friends "eventhough nothing happened" and he replied "NOTHING happened". Of course she says that she didn't tell me because she new i would go crazy and i wouldn't forgive her and always hold it against her. Now she wants to start over. 
I love her but I am completely hurt, confused and still not sure nothing physical happened!

Any thoughts, words of advice or ideas??

Told you it was a Long Story.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Expose this guy to his wife. Immediately confront him without revealing what you know. See if the stories match up. Check the phone records. If possible, verify the financial records(if they met somewhere like hotels, trips etc). She lied too many times to trust her immediately. Also you might need to get tested for STDs sometime down the line.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks, for the reply. 

Yeah, I was going to do that. Planned it out yesterday. I scheduled a session with our counselor on Wed. I want to see how she reacts with him. But i didn't want to do anything until then? Don't know if she'll close up if she sees i'm getting into his head.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

I've been checking things. Phone yes, email yes, haven't found anything on the credit card yet. I was gone for a week end of january before everything happened. Found long phone calls back n forth on a Saturday evening. Asked her about it a while back and said she was alone. But now i don't know what to believe? I have a number of questions for her and want to ask and re-ask at the counselor session? Wondering how to approach that then? I'm sure she will apologize to him when were are there.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If someone lies to their counsellor, that does seem to indicate a certain fogginess of thinking.

Is she hiding more?


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Yup. That's my question? I'm obviously new to this so i'm all over the place. We had a good weekend, went out for dinner to a place where we'd go to a lot when we were dating. She was really into it. But this morning we got intimate ....she could tell i was thinking about something and i asked her how it felt when she would share emotions with him and then get intimate with me? That did not go over too well, she started to tear up. I think she just wants me to forget it , trust her and work on us. Yeah, that's easy to do, right?


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I thought my wife's PA was "just" an EA and she had me convinced that was "all" it was.

It wasn't. Don't trust your feelings. Trust logic. 

I hope you get through this. Look after yourself.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

The logic is what's driving me crazy. There was an email, back when this first started, that i discovered. She was emailing him while were at a book store together.... the same one she met him at once or twice.....we were at different sections of the bookstore.... it said something like "This sucks, wish you were here, miss you (can't remember if it said love you too) but it has to be this way" . When i asked her about it she said it didnt mean anything ... She told me she loves all of her friends...she is pretty deep that way... that they were just looking at books together. but i just can't accept that. She keeps saying that it just happened, she wasn't looking for this.. that if it weren't for my ADD and neglecting her and not respecting her it wouldn't have happened. I feel like i should bring this all up again at the counselor session? Not sure what the F to do????


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

fls22 said:


> The logic is what's driving me crazy. There was an email, back when this first started, that i discovered. She was emailing him while were at a book store together.... the same one she met him at once or twice.....we were at different sections of the bookstore.... it said something like "This sucks, wish you were here, miss you (can't remember if it said love you too) but it has to be this way" . When i asked her about it she said it didnt mean anything ... She told me she loves all of her friends...she is pretty deep that way... that they were just looking at books together. but i just can't accept that. She keeps saying that it just happened, she wasn't looking for this.. that if it weren't for my ADD and neglecting her and not respecting her it wouldn't have happened. I feel like i should bring this all up again at the counselor session? Not sure what the F to do????


Did your wife know you were ADD before you were married?

If so, suddenly discovering this caused problems is like someone who married a person with one leg saying, 11 years down the line: "Holy s**t! I just realised! You only have one leg!"

My wife is an Aspie. And yes, it causes problems. But I try to work with and through these problems. (Slightly different in that I was not aware of my wife's condition when we got together and I think she is not aware of it, either, though she does acknowledge that she is, in some ways, different to other people.)


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

fls22 said:


> The logic is what's driving me crazy. There was an email, back when this first started, that i discovered. She was emailing him while were at a book store together.... the same one she met him at once or twice.....we were at different sections of the bookstore.... it said something like "This sucks, wish you were here, miss you (can't remember if it said love you too) but it has to be this way" . When i asked her about it she said it didnt mean anything ... She told me she loves all of her friends...she is pretty deep that way... that they were just looking at books together. but i just can't accept that. She keeps saying that it just happened, she wasn't looking for this.. that if it weren't for my ADD and neglecting her and not respecting her it wouldn't have happened. I feel like i should bring this all up again at the counselor session? Not sure what the F to do????


Bring it up! The reason I am on here, after discovering a 2 1/2 year, intensely sexual, affair is that I didn't push it enough when I suspected an EA and then when I had plenty of reason to suspect the PA I backed off too quickly.

Say how you feel. You have done NOTHING WRONG! Don't let her make you think you're to blame.

You have, at worst, been poorly. What the heck is marriage for if not coping with things like your ADD?


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

fls22 said:


> TShe keeps saying that it just happened, she wasn't looking for this.. that if it weren't for my ADD and neglecting her and not respecting her it wouldn't have happened. I feel like i should bring this all up again at the counselor session? Not sure what the F to do????


Blame-shifting on her part.She chose to deal with the situation in a way that is more detrimental to your marriage.How is that in any way right? Bring it up imo.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Yeah.. She suspected something. So did I. ADD wasn't that talked about back then and especially when i was a young kid. I always knew something was going on so i adapted, adapted pretty well over the years. We talked about it but we didn't really know what IT was and we both adapted to it. I think she just got fed up with that, not having to be a full time mom any more, loosing interest in our, really my business, etc. Then she started finding herself, getting more confident in her self. When things got tough with the business i got focused on that and probably did neglect her and took some things out on her. 

I just couldn't understand why she didn't want to be more involved? Especially after at least 2 or 3 times discussing that maybe she should do something else. She always said we didnt' have the finances for that. But amazing haw we have the money now for Grad school???

I will bring it up! I need to have the truth, a clean plate first, then maybe we can start to see if we can work at this. She needs to completely come clean too! Not just for me, but for herself. I really don't want to go thru this 2 years from now again. Thanks for your advice all!


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Don't tell your wife you are going to expose the affair to OM's wife. Be gentle with this woman, don't share your sources but enocurage her to snoop before confrontation. You will gain an ally wich might help you to kill this affair forever.
Just because it's "all" in the open it doesn't mean you are out of the danger of another false reconciliation. She now has to deal with the fallout. Sure enough she already warned OM. Keylog your wife PC anyway, get a VAR for the car, get a hold on her whereabouts (GPS).

Welcome TAM CWI newbies


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

fls22 said:


> The logic is what's driving me crazy. There was an email, back when this first started, that i discovered. She was emailing him while were at a book store together.... the same one she met him at once or twice.....we were at different sections of the bookstore.... it said something like "This sucks, wish you were here, miss you (can't remember if it said love you too) but it has to be this way" . When i asked her about it she said it didnt mean anything ... She told me she loves all of her friends...she is pretty deep that way... that they were just looking at books together. but i just can't accept that. She keeps saying that it just happened, she wasn't looking for this.. that if it weren't for my ADD and neglecting her and not respecting her it wouldn't have happened. I feel like i should bring this all up again at the counselor session? Not sure what the F to do????


She has demonstarated she can not handle male friends. She must go total NC with them. As soon as she breaks this NC she will have to go back into withdrawal startinbg over again. She will need to be total NC with all of her boy friends she has accumulated forever and frankly not add any new ones. She was at least cake eating big time. This was destroying your marriage. 

You are going have to take a hard line as she continues to lie about no contact. Her lying and being unfaithful to you has to have a consequence for her at some point. So far it has little.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Ever had a planning session with somebody and it ends with "This discussion never happened." And you say, "What discussion."

That's why they email each other and confirm that "nothing ever happened."

It happened.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

i think you should have waited and collected all possible evidences. I made the same mistake you did.
what do you FEEL about "nothing" happened?


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

fls22 said:


> . She keeps saying that it just happened, she wasn't looking for this.. that if it weren't for my ADD and neglecting her and not respecting her it wouldn't have happened. I feel like i should bring this all up again at the counselor session? Not sure what the F to do????


She is right. Your ADD made me into an alcoholic too. And it was also the reason for the economic crisis in Europe. Deal with it!!


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Nothing happened, I dont buy that, Ask her for a polygraph and see the reaction...............


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Have to say i'm pretty devastated right now. Got the key logger and found some very recent deleted emails. She told him she admitted to me that she had an "emotional affair" and that she told me that she stopped, but she really didn't...something about still trying to be friends, but it looks like it will only be in her heart. He responded about this being some sort of ploy all along. She said no, that she just let her feeling go in a direction she shouldn't have ...SHe said she hurt me, him, his wife blah, blah.


I more inclined to believe that there was physical action now because she has admitted a few things, but just can't bring herself to tell me everything. She sent him an email last week about having a dream about him and a few other exchanges. She told me she sent him an email to say she wont be contacting him again......Yeah, that's the 4th time since this all began back in Feb. She does not know that i know this new stuff today. I don't know if i can wait until the counselor session Wed. to confront her with all this? I want to contact his wife as well, but i feel that if i confront today, with out the counselor being present, she will get off a message to him. Have to stay cool, try to calm down and get some work done. Any ideas would help. Wish i found this site back when it all started. Thanks


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Nothing happened, I dont buy that, Ask her for a polygraph and see the reaction...............


Yeah, that would be a good idea. But i feel i need to expose all this new stuff in front of the counselor?? I don't want her turning it on me and getting a message to him before i contact his wife!


----------



## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

fls22 said:


> Have to say i'm pretty devastated right now. Got the key logger and found some very recent deleted emails. She told him she admitted to me that she had an "emotional affair" and that she told me that she stopped, but she really didn't...something about still trying to be friends, but it looks like it will only be in her heart. He responded about this being some sort of ploy all along. She said no, that she just let her feeling go in a direction she shouldn't have ...SHe said she hurt me, him, his wife blah, blah.
> 
> 
> I more inclined to believe that there was physical action now because she has admitted a few things, but just can't bring herself to tell me everything. She sent him an email last week about having a dream about him and a few other exchanges. She told me she sent him an email to say she wont be contacting him again......Yeah, that's the 4th time since this all began back in Feb. She does not know that i know this new stuff today. I don't know if i can wait until the counselor session Wed. to confront her with all this? I want to contact his wife as well, but i feel that if i confront today, with out the counselor being present, she will get off a message to him. Have to stay cool, try to calm down and get some work done. Any ideas would help. Wish i found this site back when it all started. Thanks


_Be. Cool_.

I don't want to ruffle your feathers, so I won't comment on this turn of events... yet. 

If it's your intention to contact the OM's wife, I highly suggest you *not* bring this matter up at counseling. She _will_ inform the OM before hand. And she may be more careful in corresponding with him afterwards, since she will know you're spying on her.

Just be cool. Crack a open a beer. Try and detach yourself from her and this situation, and _watch her closely_.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Jibril said:


> _Be. Cool_.
> 
> I don't want to ruffle your feathers, so I won't comment on this turn of events... yet.
> 
> ...


How can i go to counseling, and with a straight face,talk about everything like this isn't going on. I suspect, well, actually i know she is going to bring up that she lied to him and me at our next session...she told me. I just feel everything has to on the table with her, with me and the counselor for anything positive to happen.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I would gather more evidence if I were you. How did she phrase the "emotional affair" dialog with him?


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> I would gather more evidence if I were you. How did she phrase the "emotional affair" dialog with him?


Here's a copy of the email....inserting john doe for my name:

John doe sent that email to you yesterday.
i left my desktop open when i went to school, and he searched my emails to find out that we had been exchanging messages even though i told him that i wouldn't.

i admitted to him last week that our relationship really was an "emotional affair" and that it did not end when i told him that it did and that i still care about you. 
i have hurt him greatly.


There you go...


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I don't want to say much for fear of saying the wrong thing, but it seems to me that gathering more evidence will be better for you in the long run. A bit of pain now in keeping schtum may reap dividends later.

Funnily enough, I suspect I may have a similar dilemma approaching as today is the first day I put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in the WW's car. She comes home in about 4 hours...


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

what kind of dividends? I want to get this out there and have her talk about it. She won't by just me letting this BS continue,continue talking to the counselor and how this all started because i was neglecting her, ADD and all that; lying, waiting for her to come to her senses. Maybe I was an jerk sometimes, made her feel bad, ok i admit it, i want to work at it, but i never f....ing thought about going to some one else, being with some one else.


I know i need to see hoe she plays it at the counselor, but i want to hit it right there and get it out there. I control the phone i can turn it off on the account that day and then inform the wife after our meeting.....Believe me i have no f....ing problem confronting him or her! From what i can tell from emails.. he is an emotional wreck and she's got him wrapped. When I tell her, he'll be to busy trying to expalin his way out to be worried about contacting my wife. Plus, not going to reveal i have the key logger.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

fls22 said:


> what kind of dividends? I want to get this out there and have her talk about it. She won't by just me letting this BS continue,continue talking to the counselor and how this all started because i was neglecting her, ADD and all that; lying, waiting for her to come to her senses. Maybe I was an jerk sometimes, made her feel bad, ok i admit it, i want to work at it, but i never f....ing thought about going to some one else, being with some one else.
> 
> 
> I know i need to see hoe she plays it at the counselor, but i want to hit it right there and get it out there. I control the phone i can turn it off on the account that day and then inform the wife after our meeting.....Believe me i have no f....ing problem confronting him or her! From what i can tell from emails.. he is an emotional wreck and she's got him wrapped. When I tell her, he'll be to busy trying to expalin his way out to be worried about contacting my wife. Plus, not going to reveal i have the key logger.


I just wonder if waiting a day or so will cost much more than the admittedly incredible frustration of not being able to call her out on it now. If you blow your cover now (and she will know roughly what you have done) then you could end up with a false dawn. She learns that you do not know everything (if there is more to know) and you think you have it all out in the open.

Look, this is pretty high stakes stuff and I am no one to talk as I am in a total mess myself, but I just thought I'd mention it as an idea.

I do know that holding onto stuff is nigh on impossible for me so I can't really dole out advice to someone else when I know I couldn't do it myself


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

fls22, keep your cool! If your health allows it get some good exercise in. Run, bike, pushups, weight lift, etc. It really does help tamp down the anxiety.

I have been in your position of having some data but not the absolute proof beyond any doubt. Do not confront without more data! This is an evolving situation with your wife, so there *will be* more data to find.

The first rule is never ever divulge your sources. So you have to find a way to confront her but not let her know you have keylogged the computer.

The second rule is never confront prematurely. She'll lie, misdirect, blame shift, and minimize. Then she'll go deeper underground.

I think right now you should not confront her even in MC session this week. You don't have enough concrete evidence. There is no reason to think she will feel pressured to come clean in MC at this time.

Do you have individual sessions with the MC? If so you could tell him what you have found and get his opinion. He knows you and your wife much better than we can from the forum. Just don't put the MC in a position of having to be aware of you lying. For example if your wife asks you in MC if you've keylogged the computer, you can't lie and say no. 



Chris989 said:


> Funnily enough, I suspect I may have a similar dilemma approaching as today is the first day I put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in the WW's car. She comes home in about 4 hours...


Chris, good luck.


----------



## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Dude, you're not getting the whole story. Get prepared to get trickle truthed to death.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

If the goal is to get to the truth (or as close as possible to it) you need to cool your jets and gather intel. If you want to go straight to divorce and don't care how the adulterers spin the story, let it all hang out in counseling.

This is a chess game not a first person shooter (at least I hope not).


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I found it interesting that she had to tell OM that it was only an EA.

Call the OM wife at the counselors. either excuse your self and go to the bath room or excuse your self by informing the MC that you need to make a call. two birds with one rock kind of thing.

I kind of like confronting your wife and exposing the OM at the same time. I would do it eary in the session then when the OM start to call your WW both you and the MC can listen to the conversation.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Stop wasting time confronting your wife. She keeps lying to you and contuing the affair.

Instead find the OMW and warn her that her husband is having a extra martial relationship with your wife. Ask her about the dates in Jan you are wondering about, such as did her husband go away from home during that time or stay out very very late?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

It's clearly more than an EA since she had to explain to the OM man that she admitted that to you. 


She didn't say to him "he caught us". Instead she explained what she has admitted too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

FLS take this advice as pure wisdom. These folks understand these patterns. You are about to shoot yourself in the foot but bringing this out in the open at this time. It is time for you to do some academy award acting at the counseling this time. Be a listener. Let your wife do the talking. Just take inventory.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> i admitted to him last week that our relationship really was an "emotional affair" and that it did not end when i told him that it did and that i still care about you


Too much info, that's for sure. It's basically conocting stories in plain sight. I think this is a full blown romantic EA-PA.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Ok I'm Back. Left my password at the office. 

First thing does anyone have an example/template of an Expose letter that you would right to the WW???? and to the OM's wife?

I am calm, took everyone's advice....worked out, then had 2 beers.

Ok, I have uncovered more emails. More evidence

Here is my plan....

I have a very strong relationship with her parents and they have been through this with their other daughter....runs in the family, i guess. I was searching last night in my head, who can i trust, who would be most upset? Her parents, mostly her father. I will go talk to them today and let them i need them to help us with our marriage and ask them to not say anything to anyone for the next day or 2. I know I can convince them.....I do have a back up plan for some miracle they don't. I will suspend my WW phone service if i get the feeling that they are not with me. I will sabotage our internet/phone service at home ( i'm a tele-data guy and i know how to do it with no one suspecting). 

Tomorrow a few hours before our counseling i will drop confront/drop off a expose letter to the OMW......I know what you're thinking, just keep reading.

At the counseling session I know she will bring up that she lied to the MC/Phsyc. She apologize and say something about the recent emails. He'll say his shtick and then i'll say thanks for doing that, but can you tell me what the emails were about?? She say something about she was glad to see he was writing aganin and just wanted to touch base. I'll let her talk, I and the MC will listen. If she doesn't reveal the true nature of her emails and the intense longing, feeling, dreams, etc. I will just let her go. The MC and I, I will let him do it ...will ask how we can we believe you from here on out. She'll say here typical bull shi...and well all agree to going on from here. I 'll say thanks for the great session and we'll go to the car. Remember, OMW will know by now, i will include copies of emails for her. In the car i will present her with the expose letter, telling her I can't trust her becausde she is lying continuously, Etc, etc...
I NEED THAT EXAMPLE GUYS!!! I know i saw a great one the 1st day I visited the site, it's got to be out there.

So, your thoughts???


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

#1 don't talk to her parents and then ask them to be silent. Wait until after you expose to the OMW.

They will side with her even if they say they support you. 

#2 sending the letter to OMW - good!

#3 the drama game in the car - bad. 

#4 have a var in her car and on you before you send the stuff to the OMW. You want to capture what she says to you and who she talks to.

do not tell her you've contact the OMW. Wait until your wife comes to you, and then simply admit it and then walk away and refuse to engage her.

She'll be angry that the OM is getting hurt and grief. So she'll be seeking to strike out at you for hurting him. So just walk away and refuse to give her that release. Go dark as you can.

As for the Internet - good idea along with the phone.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

The VAR in the car is for who if i'm driving to the OMW's house? I understand the VAR on me. So don't expose that she is still lying, even after the MC session...if it goes the way i think it will? I left a message for the MC, didn't say anything just that it was important, i'm thinking i shouldn't say anything to him either, right?


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

I was going give copies off the emails to the parents and of course to the OMW to solidify my position. I think if i have the phone cut off, no phone at home and no email they won't be able to contact her??? Neither will the OMW or OM. Maybe just the cell phone and our home phone and leave the internet available, cause i'm monitoring it??


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The OMW might not be available at the right time


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

fls22 said:


> The VAR in the car is for who if i'm driving to the OMW's house? I understand the VAR on me. So don't expose that she is still lying, even after the MC session...if it goes the way i think it will? I left a message for the MC, didn't say anything just that it was important, i'm thinking i shouldn't say anything to him either, right?


The VAR in the car is to listen to after the drama takes place. She is going to talk to the OM someplace with it all hits. You would benefit from knowing what she says to him, so try to arrange to have the VAR in a place she'll go to talk with him.

You can even enable this by making the car a safe and available place for her to go and have her private chat.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

The OMW works from home. What about the confront and exposure after the MC session? or should i wait til the OM informs her that **** hit the fan? ANd What about the parents???


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

No, don't trust a soul with anything you don't want your wife to know about. Blood is thicker than water, so her parents are going to support her even if they despise her cheating.

There is a military axiom that no battle plan survives past first contact with the enemy. Meaning that nothing goes as you expect. There's another great quote by General Eisenhower to the effect that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable. So you should think about the various things you want to accomplish and you should try to think of various ways conversations can go.

Somebody is going to do something completely unpredictable. Your complex plan is not going to unfold as you would like.

Expose to the OM without telling your wife. Give your wife a chance to be fully honest in MC session.

Confronting your wife is best done either in the MC's office or at your home. Having such drama just before driving the car seems like a setup for distracted driving.

After you have confronted her is when you should then expose to everybody else.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

so if she doesn't come completely clean in the MC office, expose her there or at home.

And first expose the OM to his wife. Yeah, i wont tell my WW.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

fls22 said:


> so if she doesn't come completely clean in the MC office, expose her there or at home.
> 
> And first expose the OM to his wife. Yeah, i wont tell my WW.


That is my take on it. The MC office provides some safety buffer for both of you, and also provides the MC first hand evidence which could be helpful if you were to continue IC (or even MC) with him. The downside is that you then have to drive home with your W after all that.

Keep the VAR running for your own protection.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks.

Any other ideas from anybody else?

Also looking for a good example of the Exposure letter to WW???


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

I am writing the exposure letter to the OMW.Have a good example from the Newbie page. 

I saw a exposure letter to a wife a few days ago, when i just started and cant find the copy. CAn anyone help me on this?????


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

fls22 said:


> I am writing the exposure letter to the OMW.Have a good example from the Newbie page.
> 
> I saw a exposure letter to a wife a few days ago, when i just started and cant find the copy. CAn anyone help me on this?????


Sorry, I just made mine up from scratch. Pretty simple stuff setting out what happened with rough dates and making it crystal clear that they had repeated sex.

Sent it tonight and, boy, did it feel good putting that into the letter box.

ps/ oh dear I might have made it look as though the letter came from my wife. How terrible.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

I don't have her phone number. Have to go to their house. She works at home. I was thinking about bringing someone with me....possibly my 20 year old son? I will tell her and give her a letter, with some recent evidence, and tell her i have more if she wants it. Before i do this, i will suspend my WW cellphone service and the home phone service as well. I will keep the internet becuase i have the key logger... ?????


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Anyone listening to me any more?

WW is being pretty nice now....i know she thinks since she told me about the EA...she feels pretty good about herself, clean. I've been very cool and confident and i think she feels i'm ok now?? But like i said, tomorrow i'm talking to the OMW and anticipating some heavy crap after the MC session. Have to saty cool all the way thru....


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I am listening 

I don't know that you can use a standard format reveal letter. 

Start at the beginning. Keep it brief. Make it count. Don't sound like a lunatic!

Personally, I think you might be making a mistake with the after session stuff.

I have failed to do this, but I have tried to keep anger and revenge out of the proceedings as they can backfire very very badly.

One step at a time and remember the final aim.

Saying that, sometimes you need a boost and perhaps, you deserve one.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

fls22 said:


> I don't have her phone number. Have to go to their house. She works at home. I was thinking about bringing someone with me....possibly my 20 year old son? I will tell her and give her a letter, with some recent evidence, and tell her i have more if she wants it. Before i do this, i will suspend my WW cellphone service and the home phone service as well. I will keep the internet becuase i have the key logger... ?????



Good plan , follow it though and have enough evidence at hand to give her. Also assume you may have to abort if the OM is there as you require time for the OM's wife to digest what is happening . If she does not react positively , and some don't as they may know of the affair and are afraid to deal with it. Then consider exposing to his adult children, parents, siblings and co-workers. 

Don't play nice with this guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DailyGrind (Jun 27, 2010)

fls22 said:


> Anyone listening to me any more?
> 
> WW is being pretty nice now....i know she thinks since she told me about the EA...she feels pretty good about herself, clean. I've been very cool and confident and i think she feels i'm ok now?? But like i said, tomorrow i'm talking to the OMW and anticipating some heavy crap after the MC session. Have to saty cool all the way thru....


I think you are doing the right thing. I'm encouraged that you adapted your plan, based on the feedback you received. THIS is important. No way you can be unemotional while working through this. That is what TAM is for...to give you advice based on other experiences. Follow it. I KNOW it made a difference in my case. The advice didn't seem like the right thing (confrontation, exposure, and even ultimately...to take my wife to bed ....which worked...but mostly because of the timing, thanks to TAM...but I digress.) Follow the advice...it may not seem right...but it is tried and true.

That being said....if I were you....I would follow the advice of gathering more evidence ( I don't believe you ever told us what the additional email evidence was) unless you have enough that there is no way she can deny it. In MY case...OMW did not believe me.....The good news was that I stopped it early, before it was overly obvious...the bad news, my evidence was too easily dismissed (even by OMW.) Fortunately, for me...my W recommitted (after a few weeks of being furious that I tried to "ruin the OM's family.") Sheesh....{barf}. Trust me...you will get all this. But you may not be so lucky that your W is not so far gone. If she is...you need concrete evidence, and then expose. There's a reason they don't want you shooting before you see the whites of their eyes.....a wasted shot, may be your only shot.

Good luck!


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

fls22 said:


> Anyone listening to me any more?
> 
> WW is being pretty nice now....i know she thinks since she told me about the EA...she feels pretty good about herself, clean. I've been very cool and confident and i think she feels i'm ok now?? But like i said, tomorrow i'm talking to the OMW and anticipating some heavy crap after the MC session. Have to saty cool all the way thru....


I would expose , cancel the MC session as she is still lying and you don't need a third party glossing over her lies. This is not a debating game , MC is to help recover a marriage only when she is truly remorseful. 

The VAR or multiple VARs are a must , in the car , select places in the house where she may call him while your out and carry on you as sometime a WW can behave badly.

If she asks why the MC is cancelled simply say her lies have caught up with her and walk away. Offer no information and avoid debate.

Once you have conpleted the exposure to the OM's wife and assuming she react positively then call you WW's parents and siblings and let then know of her affair . Use the words adultery and affair . 

Remain silent and wait for her reaction , she may lie and blame shift. Keep to a script of your requirements to protect the marriage.

A hand written NC letter, a hand written letter to her parents apologising for the affair. Her drawing up a timeline of the affair and giving you all the details . Commitment to attend MC and to tell the whole truth that will be verified by a ploy.

Once said stick to these, do not waver as she will see it as a sign of weakness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

As said before ; is your evidence solid enough .

Edited: I reread your posts , give the mails to his wife and say your wife has admitted they are having an affair. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

HAve emails where she admitted dreaming about him. He asked her what the dream was about in a response. He asked if they could meet last friday night , they didn't we went out together to an old place were we dated. Here's a copy of the email and his response on top.

Where was this ? Where was the chair? BW?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:45 PM, wrote:
dreamed of you the other night
the words to that song spinning, because i could've written them

tough afternoon yesterday.
needed a 1/2PB fix, plus copy of Go Dog Go for my student...
found a chair in my favorite corner:
-my favorite kind of chair- heavy, oak, transplanted from a library, like it was placed there for me.
sat, staring through the spines of the books at eye level
pulled a few off, paged through
thinking
had you sat in this chair?
had you touched these books?

blinked back to reality, about to get up and saw at the end of the shelf, a pristine copy of The Journals of John Cheever, $10.
nearly laughed out loud.
because i read A Country Husband the night before

Then this from him:

What was the dream about? I was thinking about you this morning... wish we could talk at least once...


Where's this chair? University? :-D

and this:

Can we meet at booksamillion tonight by chance?

Sent from my iPhone

I also found some suspicious receipts at a restaurant and a coffee shop.


I don't know about you guys but, the talk about if he touched the books, sat in the chair....you don't say things like that about a friend???


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

It is at the very least an inappropriate relationship. She has become too familiar with him, and the secret meetings are infidelity. But you do not have enough to prove PA.

She will spin this stuff as he is only a friend, they share an interest in literature, etc.

This may be a violation of promises she has made to have no contact with him, but it does not prove a PA. OM's wife may know of the affair or be suspicious enough to have gathered some additional evidence.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The mails are not overwhemgly damning though they do indicate this is an emotional affair as does her behaviour 

I would still expose , give a clinical overview to his wife . Your big plus is your wife saying she is in an emotional affair.

Once exposed his wife should provide a second set of eyes. Don't doubt yourself this is an affair and needs to be stopped.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DailyGrind (Jun 27, 2010)

fls22 said:


> HAve emails where she admitted dreaming about him. He asked her what the dream was about in a response. He asked if they could meet last friday night , they didn't we went out together to an old place were we dated. Here's a copy of the email and his response on top.
> 
> Where was this ? Where was the chair? BW?
> 
> ...


Oh...no doubt there are feelings. But could you convince OMW with that? His side of the conversation is easily explanable to his W. I think you need more, if you want to expose. 

Unless you think it is enought for D, in which case...don't bother. But if you want R....you need to blow this to smithereens....and, sorry...this doesn't seem enough. JMO...others may disagree.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The issue is the confrontation has already occurred , and his wife knows her lies have been caught out a couple of times, hence the exposure to his and her families needs to follow pronto . It may stop it dead or it may go underground , the VAR's and keyloggers should help verify that .

I assume as your 20 year old may accompany you , he is aware of the affair, if not I suggest you tell him without elaborating or giving any detail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

No, my 20m year old does not. If you read my intro this all started because she felt i was neglecting her, acting like a jerk, she was expanding, i was doing the same things. Like i said she felt things had to change because of not coping with my ADD, the Business, etc. She felt like she had to do that exposure to me back in jan/feb. And yes, i did need to be "woken up" on that....and boy was i! Only after it happened i found out she was sharing deep things about our relationship with others and the OM. Then i started digging but i was so knocked down by her exposure that i was to stupid to see what was going on!. I found emails like i said describing how she missed him, his touch, even found passages in her journal taking about how she "wanted to feel what it was like?" And more ...a long email from him about why and what men
men feel about sex and that email started out with this line from the OM.......This is a hard email to right, don't feel like this is a Dear John Letter, because it isn't!" She had hood winked. She told me she needed to share things because I wouldn't listen....if you'd listen i wouldn't need to go to others. She said ok John Doe (me) what do you want me to do, not talk to him anymore, not be friends with him anymore?? and i said yeah, that would be a start, especially since we were working on our marriage and started going to a MC/Shrink!! she said fine I ll do it for you. That lasted for less than a week....with more emails about me from her to him "wow, what a 2 sessions at the MC and some meds will do" then more emialing, even a secret meeting at the library after she told him i would be at work ....

SHe told me all kinds of BS, but just that it was because how i was acting... 

also, just found this on her email cloud that she has him listed as the only one to view and edit:

You should be getting another email in a short while... if you want to begin reading--because IT IS A LOT--you should begin with the Moleskine-rambles one and then follow 002 and 003... that should keep you busy for a while.  I hope you are well and not too hung over from last night... I am sending you my best thoughts and energy.


She NEVER told me about this!!!


Now i'm getting ticked off. I know I don't have the smoking Gun about the PA, yet . But this is has been going on for 6 f..ing months and i have had this funny feeling alot of the time. But That's when she pretends to be closer to me and i feel...ok i must be imagining things.... I let it go, try and be a better husband, actually like going to the MC ....and then i find the new stuff, and that she's lying to the MC and that she'll be sure to tell her parents about the EA.....Yeah, sure.

I know my Wife! this guy turns her artistic mind into mush and she feels high. I also know what happens when she drinks, if you know what i mean. I'm not going to let this go any further.

Help!!


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

It might have started out as friends, developed into a EA, they got physical, and now they can't keep their thoughts away from each other and it's ruining my marriage, business and life. She has to get exposed and pay the price for lying and breaking our vows. I am clam. I am cool. I am confident! and i will get thru this and i will expose her properly. It's not revenge, it's the Right Thing to DO!!!


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

fls22 said:


> It might have started out as friends, developed into a EA, they got physical, and now they can't keep their thoughts away from each other and it's ruining my marriage, business and life. She has to get exposed and pay the price for lying and breaking our vows. I am clam. I am cool. I am confident! and i will get thru this and i will expose her properly. It's not revenge, it's the Right Thing to DO!!!


The do it as you have planned. Expose the EA! Tell the OMW.

Hell, maybe you have to expose her to her parents if you feel the need.

You probablu will not get evidence of a PA so kill the EA and do it right in front of the MC.

Good Luck tomorrow.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. I plan on telling her parents before the MC session, but after i've shut her phone down. I would like to expose her at home after the MC, giving her the chance to come clean and tell the truth at he MC, if she doesn't....I will assess the situation at the Mc and have the Expose Letter ready, eith there or at home. When we get home, our son will be there and the latter will be more daunting to her. If she tries to avoid , i'll say...I know your upset but if you don't want to face this, maybe oiur son should read some of these emails, would that be ok???

I will be cooler than cool...either way.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

No. Do not involve your son. That might bemore than she can accept and your son should not be a party to her indiscretions.


----------



## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Dude, keep your kids out of it.
Not cool at all.

Quit over thinking it and just be firm.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Well, he's obviously going to find out if after i give her the letter and she starts the denials. I can't not tell my children. When everything went down in feb/march i sat the whole family down, talked about how the ADD was affecting me, how it made me put up walls and defenses, made me difficult at time, why i treated their mother poorly at times all of it. I did it in front of her parents and sisters too. I did it because i wanted to make myself better, our marriage better, and our family better! And all the time, even for up to 6-7months before, she was having an EA, most likely a PA (at least they tried it once, probably more ...go back a few posts about the night out in July 2011)... maybe that's why she recoiled the night i tried to console her in the shower. She was, still is obviously in some kind of "High/euphoria" and when i didn't go crazy that night and told her "if you don't like it the door is always open" ...like she thought i was going to, she probably felt a certain amount of guilt. Maybe that why she decided to go in the shower the first place.. She wrote about that same thing happening to a fictional character she was writing about in a story/book. I even found a text to her sister proclaiming that the book was "in essence" about me and her. Once the exposure happens...., unless she comes completely clean about it, reveals their passionate emails, their meetings, why she thinks and feels about his touch, where he sat, what books he's touched...and i mean completely. I have to expose her with the letter. By then the OMW will know, her parents will know, a couple of close friends. I have to end this now and see where it goes from there.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Am i not posting correctly? Not getting any responses or advice? I really feel that this site helped me. I am so new to this, it's pretty surreal. I know there's no perfect way, but i'm looking to you guys for support.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Have a very early morning. Will check back then. Thanks


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

fls22 said:


> Am i not posting correctly? Not getting any responses or advice? I really feel that this site helped me. I am so new to this, it's pretty surreal. I know there's no perfect way, but i'm looking to you guys for support.


People do respond, but this is a forum not a real time exchange so you'll get some then it will go quiet. You seem to get worried if someone doesn't respond to every comment quickly. That's not how this forum works. You can relax.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

you do what you need to stop this.since your kids are already involved, then treat them as adults.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

You have a 20 y.o. son? I thinks your kids are old enough to know the truth. Better you talk to them first before they find out from the rumor mill.


----------



## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

The best thing you can do at this point is to remove yourself as an option, tell her to go have a life with him and enjoy it. Tell her that you won't be a part of it. More often than not, once the security of a marriage is lost, the WS wakes up from their delusional state.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559

This has got to be one of the best articles I've read so far.

And as the others are saying your son is old enough to hear the blunt truth, and its better if he heard it from you than from someone else.

And expose the affair to everyone in her family, the OMW, your son.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Sorry about the needy reply thing...Like i said I'm completely new to this and bit concerned in my state of mind. tried too. Thanks.

Anyhow, I have a daughter too. About 2 years younger away at college. When I expose everyone will know something is up and you are right, they are old enough. They knew we were having some marital pains and that's why i sat everyone down and explained it. This will be a bit different i suspect. But we will try and get thru it. Thanks for the advice . I will try to post my letter to her on the site a bit later this morning. Again, Thanks all. It's a relief to know there are others out there willing to help! So glad I found this site.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

When you expose---do it to her, and her only---do not be nice about it

I don't know what you want as a future---but you can't just expose, and have nothing beyond that----no action--no change

So if you wanna expose only---let her have both barrels, say what needs to be said---open her A. up completely---and then you get out---go drive somewhere, for a couple of hours---do not take any texts, calls anything---just go dark

Let her stew in her own juices, then when you return, you can have your family meeting---you can then tell her the way it will be

if you intend to stay, lay in your boundaries---with ACTIONABLE CONSEQUENCES-----allow NO ARGUMENT, DISCUSSION, nothing from her---she agrees, or she is gone, and the mge., is over

You make sure she understands, you have put up with her repeatedly fighting you, about the mge, as in her repeatedly, just ignoring your requests, which were a plea to help you save the mge.

You tell her, and once again there is no discussion---if she cannot do what it is you want done, then she can go live with him, and see how well he handles, everyday life for her, see how he takes care of her, and works for her, and gives her what she needs, in the mundane, boring everyday world, that we all live in

Your meeting, you speak, she listens---that's it.---remember---you need to be icy calm thru out the whole process.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Sounds good, thanks. I don't think the OMW would like my WW shacKing up at their home thought.....Have to have a bit of humor....

I plan to do just what you advised, only i think i will take the keys to her car .

Don't know if you read my previous posts ... I am going to tell her parents and one good just before we go to our MC meeting. Her cell phone will be deactivated to guard against any outside information ? what do you think? Also dropping off letter to OMW personally around lunch time as well.


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Have to leave to go to work, will be back in a while.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Do not give OMW, any details, or even contact her, till you have your own confrontation

She will blast her H., and he will fill your wife's ear, and she will be ready for you, also the 2 of them will have had a chance to match up their stories.

This also has nothing to do with your MC---this is tween you and your wife, and no one else---done in complete privacy---but you need to have a VAR, with you, as this all goes down.

Let me again say---be icy calm, cool, and collected, but you are also to be extremely harsh, and not nice in any way shape or form---this is deadly serious business, you make her understand you have had enuff, and the breaking point has been reached

She needs to understand, she WILL agree to each and every requirement/boundary you lay down, or the mge, will not even get to the point where a possible R., is even an option, she does not get to discuss, argue, nothing from her, she listens, and complies---you tell her if she fights you on any of this, to go get an atty., and prepare to defend a D. action.

Thoroughly read, and research the various boundaries, and remember actions, and not words, will be the consequence for breaking those boundaries---also DEMAND, she sign a POST--NUP, with a DURESS clause.

Just take some time, plan out your confrontation, and do it right---if you want this mge to continue---it has to be done right, and when it is over, your wife MUST have the attitude, at this point in time, that if you say jump---she will answer, how high.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good Luck FLS today.

Let us know how you make out today on exposing the A.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

From earlier posts and advise, i thought that part of the whole point of exposure was to expose to the OMW? I will have my WW phone service deactivated later today , the phone at home as well so unless he, OM, comes to our house or our office he wont have time to contact her. She has classes until 12:30pm. How about at least sending a registered letter/package to the OMW? She works from home and has her maiden name for her business stuff. I want the OMW to find out as well so he gets a nice surprise in his gut and then will have do 24/7 damage control with his wife.

Also,was planning on telling my WW's parents just before....again my WW will not have access to phones.


I am starting my exposure letter and will post it on site soon..

I am open to any further thoughts?? 

Thanks!


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

your plan sound fine. no calls to wife mean she won't know you are doing it. go with it. his wife has a RIGHT to know what he is up to. your wife may not be his first A, so theres no telling what he has exposed his wife to.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Don't confront your wife first. Tell the 0MW first, then your WW's parents, then confront her. Do you want her running to the OM to warn him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

She will probably not have a chance. We'll be together and if she goes crazy i will take the keys. I still like the idea of personally dropping off a Exposure letter to OMW. If she or they aren't home then i will have to wait. Logistically probably do the Parents first. and on way home to meet to go to MC, I will stop at OM & OMW house. Both phones will not be working or actually i can forward all her cell phone calls to my cell. That way i'll know couple things:
if her parents can't keep their mouth shut for a while..the blood thicker than water thing, and if he's trying to contact her from another number.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Dropping off the letter personally means you know it was received by the OMW. So if you can do it , that the most effective way. But if you do that don't linger and don't be aggressive/needy in anyway, that will make her wary.

What you do is introduce yourself, say her husband and your wife are having an inappropriate relationship, your in MC trying to save your marriage, and you thought she had a right to know about the relationship. Then give it to her, and tell her she can contact you at the number inside if she has any questions, but that you'll let her decide what to do. If she asks you questions answer them, but don't push her if she initially rejects the idea her husband could be doing it. Leave it to her to work through and decide.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I didn't know you were shutting her phone down---then letting your wife's, lovers, wife know, as you are gonna do it---is fine

Good luck---just remember be firm and strong---and ICY CALM


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I am not convinced of the wisdom of shutting down her phone. First off she is going to notice it when she looks at the screen. She will wonder wtf is going on and she will ask you about it. Secondly it is a source of intel for you. When the exposure process starts, who calls her and who does she call? If there's a VAR nearby you can hear the conversation afterwards.

What to exposure veterans say about this?

edited to add: your idea of forwarding her calls to your phone might be a lot smarter than shutting hers down. Can you change your answering message to something generic without your voice? OM might leave a message in a panic without realizing it is on your number and not hers!


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Just a follow-up to everything....

MC session was interesting. MC asked how everything was going? 5 seconds of silence and then i started by saying 'things are going pretty well. We had a great weekend, I'm feeling great about myself, strong confident and that things seemed to be moving along well in the marriage. She looked at me, with the confused "huh" look and said "this past weekend you mean"? I replied, Yeah, don't you think t was good? We went to some of our old hangouts when we were younger/dating....
and then she got silent, room got quiet and MC was waiting...

Basically she told him she hadn't been honest with a lot over the last few months and it just kept spiraling down from there and i just kept listening. She told him about admitting to me last week that she had an EA with the OM. That it started as a friendship/relationship with the OM and they both started sharing there marital problems and emotions with each other and it developed more and more stronger. Some stronger attraction feelings started developing and she back off, but then they kept communicating by email, text, clouds. That they had similar interests and that she was getting attention from him that she wasn't from the me/marriage. I was cool and every once and a while interjected a "Really" and a few shrugs, etc. Apparently she's been feeling very bad about it for a while. Feeling bad as a person, that she knew it wasn't right, some guilt, but that she had confusion about how she felt about me, about how things would progress since "our event" about me and the ADD/ADHD back in February. The MC asked more questions..and she started cracking and crying...more about how she knew it was stupid to continue replying to his emails even after she told me she would stop. It went back and forth with the MC, who i like and think is very smart/good guy... she said she felt good to see a change in me, but then she felt i was reverting to my walls, defenses, etc. I said calmly...yes i felt stronger/better at first too. Stronger/better about myself, the marriage, her,etc. but that i felt she was hiding something and that made me question everything. Every time she tried to brush off the relationship with the OM as friends, but i saw things...messages,emails that showed otherwise, that i felt she was lying and so i needed to protect myself and find out what the f... was going on. I stated to her and the MC that I'm glad that you understand that this EA is not right and you feel bad and it's going to end, but quite frankly you've lied to me , to the MC and... you tell me, tell me what it is about this time that i should surrender myself and believe you again? How do i know your not lying about the intensity of EA and was there more? The MC looked at me and started caoching me to be demanding, but gentle...I think he knew where i was going. She started crying again, looked me in the face and said nothing physical happened, NOTHING LIKE THAT! She said maybe she gave him a hug or two when they met a few times at the coffee/book store. I said well then it doesn't add up ....why would you describe feelings about touching books he might have touched or pages he might have read if you didn't touch him/him touch you? She said Never, Never. It was just their equal feelings towards literature and how badly they felt for each other going lonely feelings in their marriages want me to feel? The MC offered up that *new people*, people who would never think of doing something like this, caught up in this....having inappropriate relationships/EA... are novices, they do stupid stuff and let themselves get caught in the strange exciting feeling. And it went on ...but i reiterated many times that i might have added friction to our marriage, but I DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HER DECISION TO GET EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED WITH ANOTHER MAN (capitals for how adamant I was - not that i was yelling). It ended up being a 2 1/2 hour session and think it was a step in the right direction. I said she needed to write the NC letter and i would have input in it. I said that everything needs to be in the open/transparent and that OMW has to know. MC said that might not be a paper that you want the OM to have just in case he decides to get back at her/get even and WW said she sent him the email ending it and she agreed with MC. I said Bullsh***, quite frankly you guys have secretly been emailing and he can just delete it and sweep it under the rug and keep thinking anything he wants. To END IT , there has to be some thing substantial, a HIT, EVIDENCE or it won't prove to him and to his wife that IT"S OVER. Plus, you can write it in a way that you can protect yourself but still get the point across. She agreed.

We left and went driving, went to a park, she needed to take a deep breath regain herself and just wanted to sit and talk(of course with the VAR in the car) same stuff only got into more personal items/feelings. Crying, yelling that she feels like ****, she's a f***ing bad person, yelling tha I'm right, I'm always f***ing right, that I have all the integrity, and she's made another bad mistake in her life. I was calm and said...I know you're upset Jane Doe, I am too. She kept crying and told me nothing physical happened. I said good I'm glad to hear it, but i know you're upset now. That she wants to put this in the past and start fixing and working at us. I gave her my letter, even though i thought the MC session turned out pretty well. I wanted her to read it, to underline how i felt and what i am prepared to do. She read it, felt it. I think she understands.

Like i said it's a good start, I'm relieved to some extent that she felt enough pain to come clean, for now... but I will not let my guard down. We are writing the NC tonight. I didn't even have to really reveal any of my evidence. I did call her very good friend. Her parents, although they weren't home so i just left a message to call me. I did have her phone calls forwarded And boy that really screwed up her parents, because guess who they called back first?? Yup her. Anyhow the friend was very understanding, but asked me if she my WW told me or if I found out on my own. I said you know, i know she loves you and that's why i called and i don't really want to get into specifics, but all I'll say to you is YES and YES. 

I can truly say that if i did not find this site, i probably would have not been as strong and convicted to get the real answers I wanted and deserved...well, we deserved. I 'm hoping and praying that I did get the "Real Answers" and that it's not just another ploy. I really do want my marriage back and i want to work at it with her. But i'm not going to let my guard down, thanks to all of you. I have all my Guards in place.


Thanks,

Long Story


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks for updating us. I'm relieved it seemed to go about as well as it could have?

Good luck and keep us in touch.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Nice job FLS. Good progress and at least everything you know is in the open.

Do not let your wife try to put up any walls or blocks because you are in the right.

Just keep moving forward and get her to hop on the wagon with you!


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you expose to the OMW?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

No. I physically did not get the chance. Time ran out before the MC session. After the session, i thought i should cool while i was ahead. I think i might insist that in the NC letter My Wife insist that he tells his wife, or I will? Not sure now what to do? this guy is a bit unstable my wife tells me and doesn't know if all this would push him to do something crazy, not so much about the EA with my wife, but just because everything is sprialing downhill for him in life, marriage etc. I personally don't give a s***, but i do have to be careful it doesn't affect us. But maybe if i do expose to OMW it will give me another watchful eye. Not sure at this point??


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

Need to go. Be back later


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Keep the telling of the OM wife out of the NC letter and never even mention it to your wife. You do not want to tip them off. When you do it. Just do it.

As for the guy being unstable, that is one of oldest lies by cheaters, along with the OMW is a cheater too, the OMW is violent, the OMW is stalking him etc.

Who frankly cares about any of it. The OM IS killing your marriage. He is doing it willingly and it without care. You are not telling lies you are telling the truth. So what if he faces consequences for his choices, in fact the better for it. That's what adults face when they make bad choices.

Btw, the number one fear many cheaters have is that their dear affair partners will face fallout for cheating with them. They not far their wn husbands being destroyed, their marriages ending. Nope, it's all about protecting the AP, which is nice when the AP throws them under the bus because it hits the WS extra hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Tell BW. ASAP. Without warning you wife. Once she get the news (from OM) she will get angry. Tell her, just one time, BW deserved to know, deserved to make decision with the right info, which OM would never provide, you felt you couldn't let her being gaslighted/abused anymore (tell her to google gaslighting and pick the 4-5 first entries so she could defog a little more). They (WW-OM) felt entitled to decide how your and BW lives should be with out consulting. Then you got involved. She was the only one living a lie amothe the four of you. Then end the conversation.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

fls22 said:


> I think i might insist that in the NC letter My Wife insist that he tells his wife, or I will?
> 
> *No. YOU tell her. This guy cheated with your wife. He cannot be trusted. Why would you trust HIM to tell HIS wife the truth?*
> 
> ...


You have a moral obligation to tell the OMW and give her all the evidence and information you have.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Follow the advice given to you about exposure. The first rule of exposure is never give any warning to your WS or to the OM/OW that you might expose. This gives them the chance to spin the story to the OMW to not listen to you, that a crazy, jealous husband is about to tell her lies and just wants to ruin her marriage. 



fls22 said:


> this guy is a bit unstable my wife tells me and doesn't know if all this would push him to do something crazy, not so much about the EA with my wife, but just because everything is sprialing downhill for him in life, marriage etc.


Like Shaggy said, these are one of the most common lies that WSs say to protect their affair partner to prevent them from being exposed.

You should ask her, why she had an affair with him if he was so unstable. Watch her jaw drop and have nothing to say to that. :rofl:


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Do you think your wife found this site? Or that you accessed her emails?


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

" Originally Posted by fls22:
this guy is a bit unstable my wife tells me and doesn't know if all this would push him to do something crazy, not so much about the EA with my wife, but just because everything is sprialing downhill for him in life, marriage etc."

Oldest one in the book. Total rubbish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fls22 (Jul 8, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Do you think your wife found this site? Or that you accessed her emails?


No, on the site. She would have to access my laptop.....No way on that unless she is a computer genius and she's not. If she was, why was it so easy to access hers? she was so confused about how i found most of her stuff???

As far as know that i have some emails, yeah, she does, but not a clue to how many and how.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I suggest you read this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31786-expose-not-expose-question.html


----------

