# Toxic FIL



## Bana33 (Feb 17, 2014)

I came across this message board while searching for advice on how to avoid being baited into an argument. My FIL is argumentative and was emotionally and physically abusive to his children while they were growing up. The crazy thing is, they dont recognize that they were abused. He tells teh stories proudly as examples of how great of a disciplinarian he was. He tells one story about when my husband was very young. DH used to get into FIL's tools. (why as a father you wouldn't lock up your tools so that your young children can't get to them and HURT themselves is beyond me) FIL told 6 or 7 year old DH not to get into his tools, but being a child, he didnt listen. So, FIL one day told DH to bring him his favorite toy. DH got very excited and proud to show his father his favorite thing, brought it to him. FIL promptly smashed the little car under his feet, and said to his son, "How do YOU like it?" He tells this story with his chest puffed out and with his head held high. It makes me crazy that he brags about hurting DH in such a way. This is just one example of many stories that this man tells proudly, as if he deserves father of the year. I dont think DH has a clue that he was abused. At least he hasn't accepted it. FIL regulary tries to bait me into arguments as well. FIL and step-MIL have us over for dinner monthly. Every month, he brings up race, knowing that I disagree with his views. We are both white. He is extremely racist, and makes a point of throughing the "N" word around whenever I am around, knowing that I am against such language and behavior. He also proclaims loudly that noone could ever convince him that smoking causes cancer, knowing full well that several members of my family have died of lung cancer from smoking. The list really goes on and on. I have tried to simply not take the bait, but I am at my wits end. to be perfectly honest, I don't want my future children to have any contact with this man, but I haven't ever really brought the issue up with DH. I know I should, but I'm not sure how to bring it up...any suggestions?


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## Akinaura (Dec 6, 2011)

Yikes! Definitely sounds like a little bit of distance between the FIL and children should be a good thing. As a parent myself, I can't even think to smash my child's favorite toy right in front of their face.

As for advice, I'd suggest getting the following book: "Dealing with the CrazyMakers in Your Life" by Dr David Hawkins. It's a great book to see how there are people out there that drive others to feel like they are going crazy.

As for your husband, he may or may not have actually seen it as "abuse" per se, but more along the lines that he had a rather strict father growing up. Always address your concerns with him though. Open communication is the KEY to marriages (at least I think so!). A good way to do this is to NOT project your emotions onto your husband. Don't tell him it's HIS father's fault you feel this way. Say things like "I feel disrespected when your father does action A," or "I feel like I'm being baited in conversations with your father." There's a poster here by the name of jld...she has a REALLY way to explain a talking technique called Active Listening. Hopefully she'll swing by this thread and explain it to you to help you try it with your husband (I'm not all that great at explaining it).

Hope this helps you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks, Akinaura.

OP, are you sure you want a relationship with this man?

He is pretty old and pretty unaware of what he has done wrong, and continues to do wrong. I could not be around an adult like that.

I think you need to be transparent with your dh. Just tell him everything you feel about his dad. Try to show him how abusive his dad is.

And be ready to set limits.

Consider telling your dh that you do not want to go and see your fil for a while, and that you would like your fil to know why. A letter may be a good idea. I doubt such a person will listen to speech.

Akinaura was talking about active listening, and it may be helpful with your dh. I think your fil is a lost cause.

Basically, when your dh tells you how he feels about something, like his dad, you repeat back to him what he says. This should make him feel listened to and respected. He should want to share deeper. You keep listening until deep root causes are unearthed. 

When these deep root causes are unearthed, you can really know the problem, and start to heal it. But first you need him to feel safe enough to share. This is where the active listening is so helpful.

He really doesn't get that it is not okay to break a child's toy? Wow. But your dh is kind to you, not abusive like his dad?


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## Bana33 (Feb 17, 2014)

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my rant! lol. For the most part I am a very easy-going person and I undestand that it is best to just not react. I have mentioned little things to my husband, but I don't think he understands how strongly I feel about his father's behavior. I am at the point where I am seriously considering not having kids at all because I dont want to expose them to this person. I want kids very much, as does DH, but I would never in a million years want this man to have any influence on my children. He has disowned his own daughters, and claims to not regret it at all. He blames them for the parents' divorce being as messy as it was. (they were 11 and 14 at the time) 

Am I overreacting?


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## Bana33 (Feb 17, 2014)

My DH is a lovely person. He has his flaws, as we all do, but he is NOT abusive. It makes me angry to even think that his father could have hurt him like that. I will definately read the David Hawkins book and look into the activev listening tactic...thanks for all of the advice!


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## Bana33 (Feb 17, 2014)

I would love to just cut ties with the man, but it isnt fair of me to ask my husband to cut ties with his father, and I feel rather demanding and high maintenance asking him to deal with a wife and a father who don't interact at all. I am trying my best to be the bigger person, but it is getting to be draining...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Bana33 said:


> I would love to just cut ties with the man, but it isnt fair of me to ask my husband to cut ties with his father, and I feel rather demanding and high maintenance asking him to deal with a wife and a father who don't interact at all. I am trying my best to be the bigger person, but it is getting to be draining...


Please be transparent with your husband. Please tell him everything you have said. And continue to be transparent. It may end up being very healthy to cut ties. And it can inspire growth in your fil -- what a gift to him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Great post, MF.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP, you are not over reacting, and I wouldn't want my children being influenced by someone like this either.

There's another great book, called Toxic Inlaws, by Susan Forward that would be a great read for you. I've read it myself and got a lot out of it.

Good luck!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just tell your husband you want no relationship with his father, and he is welcome to visit him as much as he wants, but you AND your children will not be doing so except on holidays.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Just a different angle - he sounds like my NPD ex who was on the phone with a client (and he refused to be 'inconvenienced' by taking the portable and walking upstairs to his home office where he could shut the door) while kiddo was playing (she was about 3). When he hung up he was angry at me (and yelled and berated) for not keeping her silent and yelled at her for being noisy when he was on the phone and he stomped and ruined the toy she was playing with and threw it away while she stood there teary eyed and trembling and silent. I hated him with a passion at that moment but no reasoning would convince him that a child cannot remember to be quiet for a 30 minute phone call when she's 3.

Your FIL may never see his arrogance as wrong in either situation. You may want to look up characteristics of a narcissist. If he turns out to have many of those traits, odds are you cannot reason with him at all. In that case, all you can do is give an ultimatum - that if you ever hear him using the N word or any similar derogatory term in your child's presence, he gives up the right to know his grandchildren. Period. 

Obviously discuss this with your husband. Don't let it stop you from having children but it IS good to share with him your concerns and agree up front. You don't have to stop him from having a relationship but you CAN limit your future children's exposure.

Adults are the ones who should exhibit charity, self-control and the ability to identify teachable moments. As any children get older if they ask about him you can explain you don't agree with FIL's view on things and tell them what he has said. Most kids are color blind - it's the world that taints their view. I'm so glad my kiddo has remained relatively neutral even tho her Dad is like your FIL as it comes to race.


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