# So I finally read NMMG



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Hey folks.

OK, I finally broke down and read NMMG. I have to say I have mixed emotions about it.

There are certainly aspects of it that are me to a T. Especially in the workplace. I am majorly conflict avoidant and that hurts me in the workplace, no doubt. Funny thing is that I am not that way at home.

One of the biggest problems I have with the book is the constant "blame your parents for abandoning you" crap. On one hand he says "don't be a victim" and then keeps blaming my parents.

If I had to pick some kernel of truth out of that, my mother probably did smother me. I think she was lonely because dad was a farmer and in the fields and she hated being on the farm. HOWEVER, I am certainly no mama's boy. Left the house 3 days after graduating high school for boot camp and haven't been home since...

I don't know how many women peruse this forum but I was also curious how many women have read it and what you thought of it?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Not all of it resonated with me either. But overall I found it very beneficial. 

I think there is a difference between acknowledging something that caused an issue, or held you back, versus assigning blame to it and divesting yourself of responsibility.

One of my big takeaways from that book, and in virtually all of the 'man up' books is a very simple, concise, responsible, and adult message. They say it different ways, but it all comes down to ...

"Own your sh!t."

And then find a way to move past it and be better than you were.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Own.Your.Shet.

That's probably the best advice anyone can give to anyone.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Ugh, I feel like I beat a dead horse around here. 

I do own my sh*t, "nice guy" or not. Actually that raises another thing in the book that I took issue with. I have no problem taking responsibility or admitting my mistakes so that part didn't resonate well with me either.

Now, here is where he was right and I am struggling. He is right, I need a dream, a passion to pursue. However, I swear to God I am ADD or something because I don't have and cannot recall ever having a passion for something that is lasting (other than my wife/kids). I AM one of the "jack of all trades, master of none" people that he talks about in the end of the book.

I actually used to think that was a good thing and in many cases within Information Technology it has served me well. But maybe that has held me back by not focusing on one specific discipline??


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I read it and not all of it resonated with me but my husband said it nailed him. He found it beneficial and says it is helping him.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Don't get me wrong, I think there is some good stuff in there too. I would really like my wife to read it to see what she thinks but I am sure she won't.

One thing that kinds of bugs me about it is that now I find myself questioning everything I do. Is everything I say just some kind of "cover-up" or "covert contract"??


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

frustr8dhubby said:


> One thing that kinds of bugs me about it is that now I find myself questioning everything I do. Is everything I say just some kind of "cover-up" or "covert contract"??


That's called being aware and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm guilty of covert contracts so that isn't something men have the monopoly on. I have to stop and think am I doing this because I want something in return or am I doing this because I want to.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Don't get me wrong, I think there is some good stuff in there too. I would really like my wife to read it to see what she thinks but I am sure she won't.
> 
> One thing that kinds of bugs me about it is that now I find myself questioning everything I do. Is everything I say just some kind of "cover-up" or "covert contract"??


For God's sake, why would you want her to read it?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

To get an external perspective. Maybe she would see things about me in there that I don't see because I don't want to?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Stop it.

Take from it what you need and leave the rest.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> To get an external perspective. Maybe she would see things about me in there that I don't see because I don't want to?


She is NOT an external perspective.

When Glover talks about "safe" people, SHE is the antithesis of SAFE.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Even worse, having her read this is approval-seeking.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I thought the book offered some incredible insight and perspective. But ... I still called it like I see it.

Covert Contracts? That was an eye-opener, and could be applied to any passive aggressive individual regardless of gender. But really interesting to read.

So what did you get from it? What hit close?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I think the biggest two are, to Conrads point, approval seeking and the whole non-confrontation thing (which I have always known was an issue). I do "play the victim" a lot I have come to realize...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

They can be overcome, trust me. I did it.

I grew up thinking that it was NEVER ok to be angry ... or if you were angry, people wouldn't like you ... you weren't being 'nice'.

In sum, I looked inward for approval instead of externally. Came up with a guide or code. Follow the code and I don't need to concern myself with what others think.

Embraced conflict in a healthy way. Most people absolutely suck at it. 

And learned that being angry is legitimate and necessary. How we express it makes the difference.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

One of my biggest issues is that I'm a conflict avoider and will usually say or do something just to make it go away even though it goes against my needs, wants or even morality. When you "compromise" on your principals just to make another person happy or stop complaining you take the easy way out and it comes back to bite you much worse since that boundary was blow away. Abusers know this very well hence why they prefer the conflict avoider. Its almost too easy. 

Thankfully I have improved since then and the power of NO is liberating. I'm still polite but conflicts do not cause me to shutdown. I embrace them as a leader should, head on and willing to grow both emotionally and intellectually.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Deejo said:


> They can be overcome, trust me. I did it.
> 
> I grew up thinking that it was NEVER ok to be angry ... or if you were angry, people wouldn't like you ... you weren't being 'nice'.
> 
> ...



High five brother same here. While I don't want to turn into an Ahole, having righteous anger is actually necessary with some people so they know what our boundaries are.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

I first read NMMG a little over two years ago. I hate to throw around the term "life changing", but it was.

I too had a hard time reconciling the author's points about parents. I had a very nurturing, loving home, so at first I didn't really see any overt threats of abandonment.

But the deeper I dug into my own memories, I started to see scenarios where I could take away a subconscious fear of abandonment.

Examples:
- If I brought home anything other than straight A's, I got a stern lecturing
- My parents were sticklers on cleanliness, and when I was a child, they used to threaten to send me to juvenile detention when my room would be messy
- My parents caught me smoking pot during HS, and they told all my friend's parents. Most of my friends didn't even smoke pot, but I lost all of them anyway bc at that age, no one wants to be friends with the kid whose parents will NARC on you.
- I dated a girl for several years that my parents did not like, and my dad threatened to write me out of the family will if I married her.

That list may make my parents out to be terrible people, but they were and still are wonderful parents. They were just trying to raise me to be a responsible young man, and I certainly don't blame them for that.

Those things, plus the fact that my dad was and still is one of the worst Nice Guys on the planet, were what led me down the path of becoming a Nice Guy. I don't blame anyone but myself, but it's not assigning blame to examine your past and see what got you here in the first place.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I didn't have any of that..


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> I didn't have any of that..


If your upbringing didn't factor into it, then maybe you were predisposed to being a Nice Guy for some other reason.

Either way, I wouldn't get too hung about the past if you don't think that applies to you. Pluck the good stuff out of the book and don't get wrapped around the axle about the stuff that's not for you.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm a female and I read NMMNG and really enjoyed it. I think a lot of his points are good points for anyone to understand (if they have the types of issues that book is directed toward).

I gave the book to my (then) 18 y/o son to read when I was done with it, because I could recognize that I was mommying him too much and I wanted him to realize it, too. He enjoyed the book and thanked me for it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> I think the biggest two are, to Conrads point, approval seeking and the whole non-confrontation thing (which I have always known was an issue). I do "play the victim" a lot I have come to realize...


An Overview of the Drama Triangle

Hubby,

Enjoy yourself on that link.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Conrad,

Very interesting read. I most likely live in the Starting Gate Rescuer space but I can at times easily fall into the Victim space. Actually I may start somewhere along the line between the two..

Thanks.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Conrad,
> 
> Very interesting read. I most likely live in the Starting Gate Rescuer space but I can at times easily fall into the Victim space. Actually I may start somewhere along the line between the two..
> 
> Thanks.


My favorite starting point is rescuer but the end point is always always victim.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Ugh, I feel like I beat a dead horse around here.
> 
> I do own my sh*t, "nice guy" or not. Actually that raises another thing in the book that I took issue with. I have no problem taking responsibility or admitting my mistakes so that part didn't resonate well with me either.
> 
> ...


I"m glad you read the book. Passion in life sometimes translates as knowing what your purpose on this earth is. Why are you here? Not so easy to answer. The restless ADD syndrome. Some say it is searching for happiness. 

And those that are close to us can read it, whether we know we are projecting it or not. I had no idea either. (and I read the book, too)


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

deejov said:


> I"m glad you read the book. Passion in life sometimes translates as knowing what your purpose on this earth is. Why are you here?


Maybe that is the kicker. I still don't know. I certainly have no creative outlet. I have no musical, artistic, etc. talents to share. I am intelligent but certainly no genius.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Those are all external.
You. As a person. Who are you? Why are you here?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

deejov said:


> Those are all external.
> You. As a person. Who are you? Why are you here?


How are those external? 

Can you tell me exactly who you are and why you are here? ( I don't mean that to be snide, I am genuinely asking ).


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

The point that I'm taking from deejov's posts, and it's just my interpretation, so could be way off, is the idea that Nice Guy's have often spent so much trying to be everything to everyone that once they come out of the "Nice Guy Fog", they have no idea who they really are inside. This is actually mentioned pretty specifically in NMMNG.

That was absolutely true for me, but again, that's just my interpretation. And frustr8d, you may already have a strong idea of who you are.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Ugh, I feel like I beat a dead horse around here.
> 
> I do own my sh*t, "nice guy" or not. Actually that raises another thing in the book that I took issue with. I have no problem taking responsibility or admitting my mistakes so that part didn't resonate well with me either.
> 
> ...


I don't trust statements that elevate one way of being over another. Some people are single-minded, some have several interests, some have a series of passions. 

My longest running passion is my husband. Right now I am mostly interested in issues and questions around unschooling. I have also recently started working with an orphanage in Tanzania, this has grown out of years of reading blogs about adoption and attachment, healthy emotional development in traumatised children.

I've had lots of other interests, but they ebb and flow. Don't judge yourself for being who you are. The world needs all types of people.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lyris,

That singularly focused passion works better going from female to male than the other way around.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> How are those external?
> 
> Can you tell me exactly who you are and why you are here? ( I don't mean that to be snide, I am genuinely asking ).


deejov is here as my personal muse


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Davelli0331 said:


> That was absolutely true for me, but again, that's just my interpretation. And frustr8d, you may already have a strong idea of who you are.


Well I used to think I did and was pretty comfortable in my own skin (other than my insecurities but those are more about external/superficial things then myself as an individual). But ever since coming here I have been told that everything I am is "bad".


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Lyris,
> 
> That singularly focused passion works better going from female to male than the other way around.


You lost me on this one..??


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> You lost me on this one..??


When that "singular passion" goes the other way, a woman can tend to get bored.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> How are those external?
> 
> Can you tell me exactly who you are and why you are here? ( I don't mean that to be snide, I am genuinely asking ).


Like Dave said.

No, I don't take offense. And yes, actually, I do know who I am and why I'm here. I've waited my whole life to get to this point 

If you take away my career, my hobbies, I know what I stand for. What I believe in.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Don't get me wrong, I think there is some good stuff in there too. I would really like my wife to read it to see what she thinks but I am sure she won't.
> 
> One thing that kinds of bugs me about it is that now I find myself questioning everything I do. Is everything I say just some kind of "cover-up" or "covert contract"??


Maybe. IMO, it's a fake it until you make it concept.
Naturally, a male who has interior confidence and knows what he believes in, has boundaries, etc will just behave this way. To a point. Take it in context, not every single point in the book, ok?

If you don't have that (and let's face it, most of us have some insecuritites in life, who doesn't?) act that way. 

Similar to positive thinking. You have to be willing to rewire your thinking, question everything you do, and yeah it feels foreign.

But the whole point of trying is... to stop the insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Lyris,
> 
> That singularly focused passion works better going from female to male than the other way around.


My husband is my longest-running passion, not the only one. I have two daughters, lots of friends as well as a job and volunteer work that are what I consider my calling.

I run five days a week, I read all the time. I go through obsessive phases of reading all I can find on a particular subject; right now it's unschooling and play therapy, in the past it has been the Cultural Revolution, the works and lives of the Brontes, paleoloithic archaology, birth and breastfeeding.

I have also had short to medium term very strong interests in belly dancing, taiko drumming and um, dancing and drinking in bars. 

My point was I don't believe having one overriding passion or interest that spans your whole life, or even decades of your whole life is superior to having many interests, consecutively and concurrently. What's wrong with being a jack of all trades? I don't have the specialised talent or ability to be a 'Master' at any of my interests, but that doesn't make them not worth doing.


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