# Fitness test question



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Do you believe that women test on purpose?

I ask because I definitely used to do that. But I had no awareness in my conscious mind. I had a SUB conscious need for him to reassure me somehow. But I had no awareness that I was winging curve balls at him and would have been angry at the suggestion.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I believe they are both conscious and unconscious.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> I believe they are both conscious and unconscious.


Like sometimes they are conscious? Or in all cases their are conscious and subconscious components?


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

'fitness test' seems like a really broad category. I don't think my wife sets out to intentionally test my limits. It is just part of her personality. I've been getting better at passing these 'tests,' and am starting to see the results around bedtime!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Mom6547 said:


> Like sometimes they are conscious? Or in all cases their are conscious and subconscious components?


I think if you were to ask a woman if behavior that she is exhibiting is intended to test the boundaries and security of her relationship, she would generally wonder what the hell you are talking about.

I think often, but not always, there are components of both.

Your body telling you that it's hungry for lunch isn't a conscious decision, it's patterned, and mostly unconscious. Deciding where you go to eat lunch is a conscious decision. But ... if you go to the same place, every single day? That too, becomes patterned, and thereby less conscious. You just do it and don't think about it.

I think sh!t testing can be extremely overt, if you are feeling insecure about the relationship, or very, very subtle if your relationship has a healthy dynamic and you are generally 'pleased' with your man.

Hmmm ... now I'm hungry.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

But is it every CONSCIOUS or willful. I want to test my husband today to see how he will respond.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Both.

My wife, we have discussed this "fitness testing" over the years.

And to this day, of course, she will throw out some doozies (all women in sexual relations will do it, no matter if dating or happily married over 20 years), and I will as often be amused and deflect or bounce them back as usual and end up on top, either getting my way, or receiving some incredible sexual reward, often both, and always having her laughing and smiling at the end.

And in hindsight she will still often give me the deer in headlight look when she thinks about what just happened, or why instead of me being "in trouble" for some little something, I instead getting some great reward. 

SHe has admitted to doing these things sometimes on purpose on a few instances, but I am convinced many if not most of it is unconscious, instinct, or otherwise simply so ingrained it is done without deliberation. 

There is definitely a disconnect with discuss these fitness tests outright and the reality of dealing with them.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I think it's both. My husband has been testing me lately. Some I can see are deliberate and others I don't even think he's aware he's doing it.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> SHe has admitted to doing these things sometimes on purpose on a few instances, but I am convinced many if not most of it is unconscious, instinct, or otherwise simply so ingrained it is done without deliberation.


Can you give a short list of some examples of fitness tests? There is a place in your head when you are thinking about a new concept where you cannot really own understanding of the concept. I am there. I just don't quite "get it".


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

This very question gets addressed on Athol's blog:

Some Common Fitness Tests... And What Isn't A Fitness Test


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Deejo said:


> This very question gets addressed on Athol's blog:
> 
> Some Common Fitness Tests... And What Isn't A Fitness Test


Are those fitness tests? 

I am doing them everyday! 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

The obvious one's:

Does this dress make me look fat?

Not tonight, I have a headache (unless it's true) 

You spend too much time on (insert husband's hobby).

You spend too much money on (insert husband's hobby).

My girl friends want me to come with them (insert questionable social activity primarily geared for single women hooking up sexually with single men.) 

You're too stubborn.

You're too jealous.

You're too controlling.

I want a/an (insert expensive item).



These are a quick list of the simple and obvious ones.

Others, not just words:

Rolling eyes.

Interrupting.

Being late or making excuses or cancelling a dinner date.


So it is not always obvious, and of course, like the headache example, sometimes a headache is actually a headache, or perhaps the husband really is being reckless with money spent on his hobby, that is where understanding how the attitude and purpose of fitness testing is necessary.

Basically for the man, for him to look for any speech or behavior that is disrespectful, or would be more appropriate coming from a mother to a child, than a wife to her husband, is appropriate.

If a man feels a cringe, feels insulted, or even feels confused or frustrated, it is a good barometer that somewhere he has just experienced a fitness test.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> This very question gets addressed on Athol's blog:
> 
> Some Common Fitness Tests... And What Isn't A Fitness Test


But sometimes when someone asks for help, can it not be a request for help?

The hold my drink thing my DH would do to me. And I would hold his drink. And think nothing further of it.

I ask him to do things that I am just too damned lazy to do like haul the laundry basket upstairs. Yes he is enabling my laziness. But that does not change how I see him.

Is it relevant that he is perfectly capable and willing to say no if HE doesn't feel like it?

Can these fitness test be a bigger deal based on the context of the marriage? Like if they have been defining the marriage, they are more important to handle properly each time. But if things are generally pretty equitable, they are not a big deal? 

The emotional business I totally used to do. He never "handled" them so much as told me I was being too freaking needy.



> The Badly Inconveniencing You Request Non Test - This is when yes indeed this is going to screw your day, but if you don't help out she is going to be royally screwed. So today the kid is sick so someone has to stay home, but today she has that presentation thing and that meeting with her boss. So you save her with your best smile.


I don't understand how this is ANY kind of test. Someone has to watch the kid. I watch the kid when he has important work stuff. He watches the kid when I have important work stuff. In our case, he watches the kid because he has a notebook and can work from home sometimes. How is that a test?

Yah I still don't really get it.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

I just see it as, any time my wife behaves unreasonably I have this choice to let it slide or call her out on it.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> The obvious one's:
> 
> Does this dress make me look fat?


That one is easy. Yes. What a stupid question.




> Not tonight, I have a headache (unless it's true)
> 
> You spend too much time on (insert husband's hobby).
> 
> ...


So it is a matter of being disingenuous? What if she DOES want an expensive item? Is she saying that when she means something else?



> These are a quick list of the simple and obvious ones.
> 
> Others, not just words:
> 
> ...


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Crappy answer Alert:::: If I had a clue as to why women do half the things they do, I wouldn't be here. I'm utterly convinced that there is a back door to the women's restroom that takes you to a faraway place, where you sit in lectures titled in such ways as: "How to mess with his head.", "So, he's figured you out? Now, try this.", or the best one, "Fitness testing, a better way to steal his testicles."

Of course, I'm kidding. I tend to be the type that likes to just let the mystery stay a mystery.

That said, much of my wife's fitness testing is based on her insecurities. We're learning better ways to bypass these types of communication.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Halien said:


> If I had a clue as to why women do half the things they do, I wouldn't be here.


You DO realize that you are just as much of a mystery to us?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Mom6547 said:


> I don't understand how this is ANY kind of test. Someone has to watch the kid. I watch the kid when he has important work stuff. He watches the kid when I have important work stuff. In our case, he watches the kid because he has a notebook and can work from home sometimes. How is that a test?
> 
> Yah I still don't really get it.


The example you cite, isn't a fitness test. It's in the non-test category.

If you insisted he stay home with the sick kid because you had a 2 hour lunch date planned with girlfriends? That would be a fitness test.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> The example you cite, isn't a fitness test. It's in the non-test category.
> 
> If you insisted he stay home with the sick kid because you had a 2 hour lunch date planned with girlfriends? That would be a fitness test.


AHHHHH. Ok. I misunderstood the non test heading.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Don't know if these are fitness tests, but I do them often!

After sex, "Laogong, I am thirsty................................"

My husband quickly goes and gets me water! 


After I get dressed and put on makeup, happens a lot on Sundays, seductively walk to my husband:" Laogong, your wife is still young and beautiful.......................

My husband: My wife is vain too...........................


One more class left, my husband is in my classroom, his work is finished: " Laogong, can you teach for me.................................?"

My husband:ha ha ha, I am going home and eat dinner, bye bye.....................

Damn!


Looking at my crows feet in the mirror, " Laogong, I am getting old.......................

My husband: So am I! I have gray hair! 


I think my husband is great at passing my tests!


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## grizabella (May 8, 2011)

If a woman is "testing" you all the time in a disingenuous manner just to see how you'll jump she is neurotic and probably a borderline personality.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I read the list.

Here's a cute twist (no rhyme intended):

My man seems to be paranoid/suspicious that I have "testing" motivations with many things I do. 

In effect, he OVER-"passes" tests that aren't really there.
By reacting very defensively and protectively guarding his masculine "right" not to "have to" fulfill a minor request, a molehill becomes a mountain.

I'm not fit testing when I ask him to kill the stinkbug that just flew in my hair.
Or not fold my work documents if he's going to hold them for me. (and yes, I did ask him to just give them to me)
Or give me the barely used paper to re-use, instead of throwing it directly in the recycle box.
Or ask if we can leave the lights on while I work, because working in the dark gives me a headache.

Those are NOT tests.
But he REFUSES to do them, because he FEELS like I'm testing him.

Someone can perceive a "test" in any situation in which they fear they're going to lose power.

I will admit that yesterday I DID "test" him in a different way: I asked him to read my cover letter for a job application. He has a history of being extremely critical. So I tested him--can you be supportive of me with this?

This was also a test of ME, btw--"whatever he says, do not be affected. Don't get offended, defensive, or needy."

WE PASSED! 

Me: "Can you read my cover letter while I'm in the shower?"
Him: "Sure...but I can already tell you it's too long." (IMO, mini-test for me...deep breath)
Me: "OK, well I modeled it on some samples I found."

After he read it:

"It's a good letter. But..." (insert constructive criticism)
"And, with this sentence...I don't know what that means. That's really vague."
Me: Laugh, joke about the vague sentence
Then I responded to the criticisms and thanked him. 

We both knew it was a test for both of us. 

Just $0.02 from a marriage that doesn't fit the typical "nice guy suffering under a fitness testing wench" model.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> If you insisted he stay home with the sick kid because you had a 2 hour lunch date planned with girlfriends? That would be a fitness test.


THAT would be a fitness test?! Uh, wouldn't that just be considerate? A previously planned lunch and a kid gets sick. How on earth is that a test? Geez, you guys turn nothing in to something.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> If you insisted he stay home with the sick kid because you had a 2 hour lunch date planned with girlfriends? That would be a fitness test.


I don't get it. How is that not just being a jerk?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> I don't get it. How is that not just being a jerk?


Exactly! "Sorry honey, you had plans, break them and stay home with junior so I can go golf". That's not a test, that's called partnering/parenting.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Exactly! "Sorry honey, you had plans, break them and stay home with junior so I can go golf". That's not a test, that's called partnering/parenting.


On a day off you have to negoicate who stays home in a fair manner.if he goes golf/hunting and has more free time then its only fair he take a turn with the sick child.But you have to except how he cares for a sick child if you come home with an attitude and critisize how he did then YOU should have stayed home with the sick child.

on a work day. work is more important than going on a lunch date(2hour would sugest she has a slow day and could waste 2 hours)when most people have to work and only get an hour or a half hour for lunch. THATS a no brainer working and earning a living is much more important than a 2 hour lunch with your home girls.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> I don't get it. How is that not just being a jerk?


It's assumed that the guy is working and the wife is a homemaker. Sick kid in that scenario means no lunch date. I can't tell you how many sahm's do this type thing to their husbands. Expecting them to miss work for nonessential things. Total fitness test.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> THAT would be a fitness test?! Uh, wouldn't that just be considerate? A previously planned lunch and a kid gets sick. How on earth is that a test? Geez, you guys turn nothing in to something.





Mom6547 said:


> I don't get it. How is that not just being a jerk?


Ah ... nuance ...
This would be a different conversation if we were sitting around a table. I wasn't all that clear. To me this falls under the 'My time is more important than yours.' category.

In my case, with my ex? That's a fitness test. In my frame of reference this example falls on a work-week day. It's about priorities. My priority is work. I work under tight timeframes. We have a child home from school, sick. If I'm risking a delivery date, I am NOT going to give the request to go to a social lunch priority over my responsibilities. Not in this case.

In Mom's case, if hubs has no pressing issues, and can freely work from home, and gets the chance to be a hero care-giver to an ailing child? Than he's being a hero, to spouse and offspring. Based on priority, or it's absence, I'd make the same choice. I LIKE caring for my children. But it's still about style and substance. Do you EXPECT me to do it, and are you prepared to accept no for an answer.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

See this is where my brain is wrt this fitness test thing. If a buddy was to do stuff like is described, you would call bs. You would set a limit. No way dude. 

Why is there a different phrase "fitness test" for a behavior that is not intended to test you but requires limit setting?

It seems like a back handed way of applying a motivation to a woman that is not present.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Ah ... nuance ...
> This would be a different conversation if we were sitting around a table. I wasn't all that clear. To me this falls under the 'My time is more important than yours.' category.


But if SHE is TESTING you, then she is trying to get a result out of you. What is the result she is trying to get out of you?

I don't see how SHE is testing. I see how YOU need to set effective limits.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> On a day off you have to negoicate who stays home in a fair manner.if he goes golf/hunting and has more free time then its only fair he take a turn with the sick child.But you have to except how he cares for a sick child if you come home with an attitude and critisize how he did then YOU should have stayed home with the sick child.
> 
> on a work day. work is more important than going on a lunch date(2hour would sugest she has a slow day and could waste 2 hours)when most people have to work and only get an hour or a half hour for lunch. THATS a no brainer working and earning a living is much more important than a 2 hour lunch with your home girls.


Gosh you project.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Ah ... nuance ...
> This would be a different conversation if we were sitting around a table. I wasn't all that clear. To me this falls under the 'My time is more important than yours.' category.
> 
> In my case, with my ex? That's a fitness test. In my frame of reference this example falls on a work-week day. It's about priorities. My priority is work. I work under tight timeframes. We have a child home from school, sick. If I'm risking a delivery date, I am NOT going to give the request to go to a social lunch priority over my responsibilities. Not in this case.
> ...


Honestly, I just assumed it was a scenario where both were available. I would never ask my husband to come home so I could go to lunch. He in turn, would never do that to me. Is that a test? No! I think it is about courtesy and respect. Again, why do basic things get viewed as tests? It all sounds exhausting and complicated.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Mom6547 said:


> That one is easy. Yes. What a stupid question.


Stupid...maybe a cliche, but it occurs very often, even framed in various ways:

"I need to diet (again)"

"That young woman (wearing short skirt and high heels, or low cut top) sure must want/need a lot of attention"

"I'm getting old"

All of these are the same root, giving her man opportunity to express his desire for her above all women.





> So it is a matter of being disingenuous? What if she DOES want an expensive item? Is she saying that when she means something else?


Again, sometimes a headache is a headache, that is of course as mature and responsible adults, the man should not look at fitness tests as lies, deceit, or in any way somehow deficient, but only as OPPORTUNITIES for him to display his mettle, his appeal, his boldness, his confidence, his c0ckiness, his sense of humor, or whatever suits his personality and the situation.

Fitness tests, they are nothing bad, for a woman will give them to the man who interests her. 



> What happens when the man is the one that is insecure and gets overly / too easily insulted / frustrated.


The man who takes fitness tests literally, he is failing them.

The man who fails to notice fitness tests, he is failing them.

This is the "Nice Guy".


Also to pass fitness tests, far from being dishonest about ways to "pass these tests", it is perfectly expected to the man to express that he either knows he is being tested, or regardless, in attitude to simply be amused but always to show he himself is his own leader.



> I don't think that this is what you mean. But it sounds like you are placing ownership of his feelings on her. She is not responsible for his feelings. Or shouldn't be.


The man who puts ownership of his feelings on his woman, is again the "nice guy".

The man that is himself, from his own leadership, no matter the fitness test, is passing the fitness test. 

The man who takes some initiative to display his "fitness", such as excelling at his hobby, sports, or musical instrument, displaying something of his success in his career, behaves and acts as a confident and borderline c0cky individual at times, assumes a leadership role in a social situation or public way for time to time in front of his wife, plans surprise dates or weekend getaways for his wife and himself, teases his wife or playfully swats her behind, these are ways of passing the test before it is even given.



> Yah as I say there is still quite a bit to this I don't get.


A man must display he is worthy above other men for a woman to be happy and secure and enthusiastic about becoming sexually vulnerable to such a man.

A man must either display his worth, or his woman will create an opportunity for him to display his worth.

In a negative sense, not to be stereotyping but this is a common complaint, a woman will be accused of creating drama for this to unfold.

In the positive and most likely sense, it will simply be a form of fitness test.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Honestly, I just assumed it was a scenario where both were available. I would never ask my husband to come home so I could go to lunch. He in turn, would never do that to me. Is that a test? No! I think it is about courtesy and respect. Again, why do basic things get viewed as tests? It all sounds exhausting and complicated.


This must not be a great example? Or having come up with idea of fitness testing, they see it everywhere?

But the back of my mind is not ready to throw the concept out lock stock and barrel. 

I REMEMBER pitching little fits at DH, then feeling kind of relieved that he was not a big enough ***** to put up with it. But not intending to. That strikes me as a fitness test.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Mom6547 said:


> But if SHE is TESTING you, then she is trying to get a result out of you. What is the result she is trying to get out of you?
> 
> I don't see how SHE is testing. I see how YOU need to set effective limits.


As Magnoliagal said, in my circumstance, ex is a SAHM. 

You have it more right than you think. Sometimes the test is whether or not you are prepared to set a limit. Not setting limits, for men, puts you on the fast-track to 'Nice Guy Syndrome'. By setting the limit, she discovers your boundary. That's a good thing for both.

To me the glaring ones are personal, not situational. I posted a recent example with my ex in the fitness testing thread. Those were both limit setting examples, not fitness tests per se.

The standouts to me are the tests I am aware she inflicted on her BF (who is once again patiently waiting in the wings). Like the time she called him "Shorty" to test his confidence - and he failed.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> A man must display he is worthy above other men for a woman to be happy and secure and enthusiastic about becoming sexually vulnerable to such a man.
> 
> A man must either display his worth, or his woman will create an opportunity for him to display his worth.


So is it possible that if a woman truly feels her husband worthy, and he demonstrates it himself regularly, that there will be no testing?

It is certainly the case that I was not feeling very positive about his worth when I was doing it.

The question is do I do it now.

I will say something like I am fat. (I am not, btw.) Knowing FULL WELL he is going to say nothing. If he says anything, it will be I am not going to step in that hole. Or so get your fat a$$ to the gym. 

But I LIKE being rail thin. So if I am 140 and want to be 135, I feel fat. I am stating that *I* feel fat.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> This must not be a great example? Or having come up with idea of fitness testing, they see it everywhere?
> 
> But the back of my mind is not ready to throw the concept out lock stock and barrel.
> 
> I REMEMBER pitching little fits at DH, then feeling kind of relieved that he was not a big enough ***** to put up with it. But not intending to. That strikes me as a fitness test.


Agreed, not throwing it out. I was suggesting that not everything is a fitness test and needs to be more complicated. I think some men tend to view everything a woman does as some sort of test/poke/whatever. Make it more than what it really is. Maybe one of those guys is the person responsible for changing the term "latex paint" in to "wall treatment". One just is, the other is just more complicated.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Testing or vindictiveness? Dear me oh my I can't tell you the times my wife has 'discovered' some minor emergency in the house late at night that demands immediate attention. That's not testing, that's something else. Needing attention? Needing to vent? Revenge? Who knows.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> It all sounds exhausting and complicated.


It is if you start over-thinking it.

We have covered this before. A sh!t test enables a man to demonstrate:

1. Confidence
2. Boundaries
3. Security

I don't constantly think about whether or not someone is lying to me during an interaction ... but I generally know when someone is.

For a guy, if your modus operandi is simply to do whatever your wife asks, and can't fathom saying 'No', or feel terrible when you do, for fear of retribution ... this is important stuff.

As silly and trivial as it may seem. Understanding that these tests of those 3 items I indicated above even exist, is a huge step forward.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Mom6547 said:


> So is it possible that if a woman truly feels her husband worthy, and he demonstrates it himself regularly, that there will be no testing?
> 
> It is certainly the case that I was not feeling very positive about his worth when I was doing it.


Bingo.

The more insecure the woman feels about the relationship, the bigger the tests.

If things are on course, you may throw the occasional unconscious one his way to reassure you that things are still on course.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I really like that Athol has broken down each example into a "non-test" and a test. 

It turns out that in most situations the easy way to tell "test/non test" is to ask: "If the situation were reversed, would my spouse be ok if I did this to them"? 

My W is a very amusing, fitness testing machine. She just is. This is just interwoven in how we interact on a daily basis. Honestly, I think my baseline level of "aggression" isn't set high enough for her. So she does this to "get" that edgy response she wants. The tests are rarely mean spirited. And they are not "cryptic". 

The tests are not "big". Small to medium sized - and frequent.

She knows what she is doing, and knows I know what she is doing. It is very rare for a test to end in other than both of us laughing pretty hard. 

You "could" call this "play" accept that the stakes are much higher. If I didn't know how to respond "overall" we would have a problem. 




Mom6547 said:


> So is it possible that if a woman truly feels her husband worthy, and he demonstrates it himself regularly, that there will be no testing?
> 
> It is certainly the case that I was not feeling very positive about his worth when I was doing it.
> 
> ...


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

And women, please understand the man is not pathologically seeing fitness tests everywhere.

This forum is unique, however, most men (outside of the pick up community) have never mentally framed "fitness testing" as a concept unto it's own.

So in threads like this, it sounds as if there is nothing but fitness testing, but that is merely for the benefit of sharing and learning.

In practice, to pass a test every now and then is sufficient, or for the man to demonstrate from himself every now and then his own mettle, or simply give a hoop for his woman to jump through for a change, this is enough to keep the relationship fun and exciting and playful and sexual and on even keel. 

And the barometer for all of this is sexual of course.

If the man is happy and content and satisfied sexually, not hiding his sexual fantasies but playfully exploring them with his woman together, it is well.

If the woman is on fire for her man, and excited to the prospect of showing her man how much a woman she is, to reward him for being a man above other men, it is well.

If the wife is outright telling the man that tonight he is hers, things are most well.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> And women, please understand the man is not pathologically seeing fitness tests everywhere.
> 
> This forum is unique, however, most men (outside of the pick up community) have never mentally framed "fitness testing" as a concept unto it's own.


What is that saying, if you live in a cave your reality is just shadows? I think that would apply here. 
Very astute, BBW.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> And women, please understand the man is not pathologically seeing fitness tests everywhere.


I was genuinely trying to understand. Because if SHE is fitness testing, she is acting. Many of the examples I see just look like real life happening before our eyes.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

So the sexual part of our marriage is very good which is likely why I see all these tests as more "playful game" than "serious challenge". 

Every night my W gets ready for bed, gets in bed and asks me for the same non-alcoholic drink and her vitamins. Her feet/legs work as well as mine. It doesn't seem like a fitness test. BTW - if it is and I am failing - I plan to keep failing. 

Instead when she asks "can I have ..." in this very nice voice I hear "do you love me"? So I just say "sure thing" with a smile and go get it. I LIKE that interaction. Always have. 




BigBadWolf said:


> And women, please understand the man is not pathologically seeing fitness tests everywhere.
> 
> This forum is unique, however, most men (outside of the pick up community) have never mentally framed "fitness testing" as a concept unto it's own.
> 
> ...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Bingo.
> 
> The more insecure the woman feels about the relationship, the bigger the tests.
> 
> If things are on course, you may throw the occasional unconscious one his way to reassure you that things are still on course.


Deej,

This one needs to go in the sticky.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> So the sexual part of our marriage is very good which is likely why I see all these tests as more "playful game" than "serious challenge".


If the sex is good, the tests have been passed, indeed the goal is to recognize it is indeed a playful game. This is the healthy marriage.

In serious relationship issues, no sex, affair man around the corner, then yes I will say it is more a serious challenge for such is the stakes of failing fitness tests.



> Every night my W gets ready for bed, gets in bed and asks me for the same non-alcoholic drink and her vitamins. Her feet/legs work as well as mine. It doesn't seem like a fitness test. BTW - if it is and I am failing - I plan to keep failing.
> 
> Instead when she asks "can I have ..." in this very nice voice I hear "do you love me"? So I just say "sure thing" with a smile and go get it. I LIKE that interaction. Always have.


Exactly the point I was hoping to make.

Every example we can think of as a fitness test, no way to even consider "passing all of them" or even a majority of them. There simply is no need. The beauty is we only need to pass a very few.

As men, of course we love and want to do nice things for our women.

As we have discussed in the "nice guy" threads, the man who has already demonstrated his dominance or passed fitness tests, with his woman, mostly he can be exactly in so much of his behavior as the nicest "nice guy", but the behavior is born out of sincerity and wanting to express affectoin, and not born out of seeking appeasement or avoiding conflict or simple bribery. 

That is very much how I describe my own relationship with my wife, from the outside, anyone on this forum to see us together would assume I just another "nice guy" who dotes over his wife.

Because in the bedroom, or previously in our relationship, or even earlier in the day I have already "passed", I have the freedom to lower my defenses, or if I am ill or having a bad day and want nothing in the world other than to let my wife take care of me and express her love to me, she welcomes these times.

But if I was always this way, then it would be a problem of course, just as any other marriage would not work if the man was merely behaving as an overgrown child and the woman shouldered so much of the emotional responsibility.

So recognizing and passing fitness tests is the most valuable skill, but once it is learned and mastered, it is not necessary to assume it becomes somehow a 24/7 job.

Instead, think of it merely as a ship sometimes is corrected starboard, and sometimes port, but the goal is really to remain on course, balanced and on an even keel. 

So is the ability to demonstrate dominance through playful passing of fitness testing is sparking sexual attraction, it is also the freedom for the man to actually be able lower his defenses with his woman, so they may truly get to know one another in honesty.

And by any definition this is simply called intimacy.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> So the sexual part of our marriage is very good which is likely why I see all these tests as more "playful game" than "serious challenge".
> 
> Every night my W gets ready for bed, gets in bed and asks me for the same non-alcoholic drink and her vitamins. Her feet/legs work as well as mine. It doesn't seem like a fitness test. BTW - if it is and I am failing - I plan to keep failing.
> 
> Instead when she asks "can I have ..." in this very nice voice I hear "do you love me"? So I just say "sure thing" with a smile and go get it. I LIKE that interaction. Always have.


You guys just make me laugh! 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Hey, MEM, I know your wife is very witty!

I am very witty too! 

I know I have legs and hands, but it is much more fun to have my husband do it! I just love to see him run quickly and get what I want! :smthumbup:

In many areas I let him be the head of the house, but ha ha ha....................I am his queen! He enjoys serving me! :smthumbup:

I guess you want to spoil your wife in these small areas when you are super happy!!!


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Bingo.
> 
> The more insecure the woman feels about the relationship, the bigger the tests.
> 
> If things are on course, you may throw the occasional unconscious one his way to reassure you that things are still on course.


I wonder if this is not also the case with men. DH used to pressure me for sex when he was feeling like I was not all his. What do you do when you don't feel your woman is all yours?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I cribbed my own responses from the other fitness test thread.



> I don't know if I'm prepared to say that guys never fitness test. Where guys are concerned, I don't think they do it until the relationship has already moved into unstable territory.
> 
> Women will offer fitness tests to assure that the relationship remains firmly entrenched in consistent, stable, behavior. If it doesn't, the tests will increase.
> 
> ...


Generally, I would say a man would present as more 'needy', thus putting him on the 'Nice Guy' track or alternatively ... withdrawn, if he feels like the relationship is at risk. Wanting sex makes sense. For a man, if you have sex with me, you love me and desire me. This has been covered before. Sex generally equals love for a man. Pretty straightforward for feeling secure.


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## joelmacdad (Jul 26, 2010)

Just freaking great stuff!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

If I "ever tested" I wasn't aware that was what I was doing.

In fact, I had never heard of fitness testing until I came to TAM.

I don't know enough about it or am familiar enough with it to probably recognize it if it hit me in the face or if I'm actually doing it.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Deejo said:


> I cribbed my own responses from the other fitness test thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally, I would say a man would present as more 'needy', thus putting him on the 'Nice Guy' track or alternatively ... withdrawn, if he feels like the relationship is at risk. Wanting sex makes sense. For a man, if you have sex with me, you love me and desire me. This has been covered before. Sex generally equals love for a man. Pretty straightforward for feeling secure.


What about a man that is rejecting sex?

There where do the feelings of love and desire come from if he is rejecting the manner in which he feels them?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Suitable for framing. Thanks Wolf.



BigBadWolf said:


> If the sex is good, the tests have been passed, indeed the goal is to recognize it is indeed a playful game. This is the healthy marriage.
> 
> In serious relationship issues, no sex, affair man around the corner, then yes I will say it is more a serious challenge for such is the stakes of failing fitness tests.
> 
> ...


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## Danny Boy (May 25, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> I was genuinely trying to understand. Because if SHE is fitness testing, she is acting. Many of the examples I see just look like real life happening before our eyes.


I'm still genuinely trying to understand too. Testing has it's purpose in the pick up community but in a marriage or a relationship where you have committed? It's despicable, disgusting and gives you away for the person you are. If you are truely testing rather than some of the playful testing some do, you are trying to find ways to have your cake and eat it too. You're looking to get over and get what you want, rather than communicate like an adult with your spouse and do what is best for the marriage and family.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Danny Boy said:


> I'm still genuinely trying to understand too. Testing has it's purpose in the pick up community but in a marriage or a relationship where you have committed? It's despicable, disgusting and gives you away for the person you are.


Bear in mind it is not conscious. I had NO IDEA I was doing it. 




> If you are truely testing rather than some of the playful testing some do, you are trying to find ways to have your cake and eat it too. You're looking to get over and get what you want, rather than communicate like an adult with your spouse and do what is best for the marriage and family.


It is not like Gee I wonder if he will jump through hoops. Someone else help me out here.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Danny Boy said:


> I'm still genuinely trying to understand too. Testing has it's purpose in the pick up community but in a marriage or a relationship where you have committed? It's despicable, disgusting and gives you away for the person you are. If you are truely testing rather than some of the playful testing some do, you are trying to find ways to have your cake and eat it too. You're looking to get over and get what you want, rather than communicate like an adult with your spouse and do what is best for the marriage and family.


Danny,

What if I told you how you handle those sorts of tests can keep a romantic spark alive long after your personal "sell by" date?


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## Danny Boy (May 25, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Danny,
> 
> What if I told you how you handle those sorts of tests can keep a romantic spark alive long after your personal "sell by" date?


Oh no! Fall on my sword! Fall on my sword! You both misunderstand me! I'm not attacking what you have done in the least! Especially if you weren't doing it consciously, Mom! I'm so, so sorry I have sent that message. It is not at all what I meant. What I've said I meant if doing it consciously and not playfully to keep the spark. Just doing it to be mean, spiteful or to degrade the spouse into a position of subordination so that you can use it as an excuse to go and do whatever you want. Or, doing it knowingly to manipulate. Playfully to keep the spark is a wonderful idea! I was not at all implicating that anyone's actions described here were despicable in any way! No, no, no. I apologize profusely. Like I said I'm still trying to understand because I've never seen relationships this way and it's hard for me to see someone who has committed doing something like trying to decide if someone they have committed to is a viable mate. Actually, maybe I will just go back and delete that post so that nobody else will get the wrong idea. I'm so sorry. As Deejo said most of us are here because we were in or are in situations that aren't all that ideal and not of our own conscious doing. I would never attack anyone like that.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Do guys know they are acting like a **** or not? Some do and some don't it's the same thing with "fitness testing" there just isn't a cool acronym say when a guy is a ****!!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

According to my wife, men are just defective women, to be corrected or destroyed. So, ALL? the time? Is that the right answer?


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## Danny Boy (May 25, 2011)

OhGeesh said:


> Do guys know they are acting like a **** or not? Some do and some don't it's the same thing with "fitness testing" there just isn't a cool acronym say when a guy is a ****!!


So what you are saying is that fitness testing is just the woman's equivalent to us guys being ****s? Not trying pick, just trying to understand your statement.


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## Duke (May 15, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> In fact, I had never heard of fitness testing until I came to TAM.


Me either. Fascinating subject though, as I can see I have failed several in the recent past.


MarriedWifeInLove said:


> What about a man that is rejecting sex?


Men do that? :scratchhead:


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## Duke (May 15, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> Bear in mind it is not conscious. I had NO IDEA I was doing it.


The tests I mentioned above, that I had failed, I am certain they were not conscious.


Runs like Dog said:


> According to my wife, men are just defective women, to be corrected or destroyed. So, ALL? the time? Is that the right answer?


No, no, no, this is radical feminist thinking, men are very different from women. A couple years back I read an article questioning if men were obsolete. I do not believe so, our roles are very different.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Danny Boy said:


> So what you are saying is that fitness testing is just the woman's equivalent to us guys being ****s? Not trying pick, just trying to understand your statement.


Pretty much!!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Danny,

IF you have a committed spouse who cares for you, how you respond to fitness testing has a direct impact on the amount of erotic activity in your marriage.

When she feels loved and secure, she's much more likely to be inclined to care for you and make you feel loved and secure.




Danny Boy said:


> Oh no! Fall on my sword! Fall on my sword! You both misunderstand me! I'm not attacking what you have done in the least! Especially if you weren't doing it consciously, Mom! I'm so, so sorry I have sent that message. It is not at all what I meant. What I've said I meant if doing it consciously and not playfully to keep the spark. Just doing it to be mean, spiteful or to degrade the spouse into a position of subordination so that you can use it as an excuse to go and do whatever you want. Or, doing it knowingly to manipulate. Playfully to keep the spark is a wonderful idea! I was not at all implicating that anyone's actions described here were despicable in any way! No, no, no. I apologize profusely. Like I said I'm still trying to understand because I've never seen relationships this way and it's hard for me to see someone who has committed doing something like trying to decide if someone they have committed to is a viable mate. Actually, maybe I will just go back and delete that post so that nobody else will get the wrong idea. I'm so sorry. As Deejo said most of us are here because we were in or are in situations that aren't all that ideal and not of our own conscious doing. I would never attack anyone like that.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> According to my wife, men are just defective women, to be corrected or destroyed. So, ALL? the time? Is that the right answer?


You married a *****?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> You married a *****?


He already knows.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Conrad said:


> He already knows.


The thing I don't get is that there seems to be an overlap of using what look like decent ideas to gleen skill toward a happy marriage. I am all for that. If you can learn and make your marriage strong, who wouldn't be for that? 

But if you are really just married to a mean and nasty person, it makes no sense to use skill to attempt to morph them into someone else.

I don't know Runs Like a Dog's scene. But there are plenty of people on this board that I want to ask... why stay married that jerk. Realize you made a mistake and cut your losses.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> The thing I don't get is that there seems to be an overlap of using what look like decent ideas to gleen skill toward a happy marriage. I am all for that. If you can learn and make your marriage strong, who wouldn't be for that?
> 
> But if you are really just married to a mean and nasty person, it makes no sense to use skill to attempt to morph them into someone else.
> 
> I don't know Runs Like a Dog's scene. But there are plenty of people on this board that I want to ask... why stay married that jerk. Realize you made a mistake and cut your losses.


Sadly, I'm in the "unfixable" camp - at least for now.

The 800 lb gorilla kept growing. But, I saw it before it was too late.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> You married a *****?



Who are you? Woodward? or Bernstein?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> The thing I don't get is that there seems to be an overlap of using what look like decent ideas to gleen skill toward a happy marriage. I am all for that. If you can learn and make your marriage strong, who wouldn't be for that?
> 
> But if you are really just married to a mean and nasty person, it makes no sense to use skill to attempt to morph them into someone else.
> 
> I don't know Runs Like a Dog's scene. But there are plenty of people on this board that I want to ask... why stay married that jerk. Realize you made a mistake and cut your losses.



Tough call. I'm married to someone I truly and dispassionately believe is a dangerous vindictive paranoid psychopath. It's not that divorce isn't an option, it's that I don't believe she'd allow it to happen under any circumstances, no matter what. I have to plan these things very carefully. Right now I'm shooting for pulling the trigger in about 24 months.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Tough call. I'm married to someone I truly and dispassionately believe is a dangerous vindictive paranoid psychopath. It's not that divorce isn't an option, it's that I don't believe she'd allow it to happen under any circumstances, no matter what. I have to plan these things very carefully. Right now I'm shooting for pulling the trigger in about 24 months.


I enjoy your posts.

I would really like to have a beer (or more) with you and Mom.


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## max456 (May 4, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> The thing I don't get is that there seems to be an overlap of using what look like decent ideas to gleen skill toward a happy marriage. I am all for that. If you can learn and make your marriage strong, who wouldn't be for that?
> 
> But if you are really just married to a mean and nasty person, it makes no sense to use skill to attempt to morph them into someone else.
> 
> I don't know Runs Like a Dog's scene. But there are plenty of people on this board that I want to ask... why stay married that jerk. Realize you made a mistake and cut your losses.


Mom,

I really want to follow up on this with a better answer.

Responding appropriately to fitness testing gives you the answers you so desperately seek.

I'm going to do an MEM here - to the best of my ability:

1) Let's say you are needy and clingy (as I once was). Your spouse fitness tests you and you blow up because your feelings are hurt

2) You explain why your feelings are hurt. Your spouse then tells you that's all well and good - but your REACTION is now the issue

I guarantee you - so many men on this board have been down this road.

By responding appropriately - with low affect and drawing reasonable boundaries, you can determine IF you have a committed partner.

If you do, all well and good. The relationship grows.

If you don't - and no matter how well you perform - your spouse continues to blameshift, erupt violently, and make you the bad guy?

Then you know exactly what to do about it.

And, you will have pain - but you won't have doubts.


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