# 2 girls taking me out - boy toy???



## cheewagacheewaga

So this is a weird situation and I have no idea what to make of it. 

Since I got a promotion and a new job at work, I asked out 2 former co-workers to celebrate. They are both beautiful ladies that I had worked professionally with. One is a superior, and one is a peer of mine in terms of classification. 

So we go out, grab dinner and drinks. Turns out they are really good friends and very flirty. They started to be playful with me. I like one of them (the peer of mine) and she flirts with me, I think. For example, she'll rub my face or my hair. This girl, in general, is very giggly and energetic. She isn't shy about laughing and grabbing my arm or my thighs when we're sitting down having a drink. 

They both invited me out and asked me to go partying and drinking with them again. They made it sound like we're this trio pack. What am I to make of this? It's like we worked professionally, but now that I don't work with them, they let their fun side come out on me and I am a little shocked by it. They even warned me about how wild they can get during the evening. Am I just a boy toy, or do they like me, or am I just a friend, or do they think I'm gay?!?!? :scratchhead:


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## freeshias4me

You mentioned promotion...I automatically WOULD have assumed you raised above them,and they wanted to suck up to you! LOL
Being that one is still over you, of course, this wouldn't be the case...
But, to tell you the truth... I think theses girls are kinda...Um...weird! I've seen their kind... They aren't serious about relationships like you are... 
I'd be careful. Don't let your attraction to the one blind you as to what might be going on with her.
Can I ask how old are they roughly; In their mis to late 20's, or 30's
I'm sorry to say, but I've met a looooot of nasty young women during my working years...


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## draconis

Who knows, go have a good time and enjoy yourself.

draconis


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## cheewagacheewaga

freeshias4m - the girl I like and is flirty (toughy-feely) to me is 26. I am 28. The superior one above me is 38. The thing is that these girls are SMART. The one that is 38 has a Ph.D. and is a professor. The one that is 26 has a Masters degree and is prepping up for medical school. Me, on the other hand, just have a bachelors in liberal arts degree.  I really don't understand these women. They are a little too wild for my taste, and I get the sense that the two women are just competing amongst themselves to see who can be more wild. I feel like I'm in the middle of this and really don't want to get caught up in some weird games that women play. 

draconis - I guess I'll enjoy it while I can, but I just wish I knew straight ahead. Do they just consider me a friend, a colleague, a boy toy, or a potential?


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## draconis

I think all will reveal itself soon enough and maybe they are waiting to see how you respond.

draconis


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## freeshias4me

:iagree:

Just be careful you don't get in over your head with them.


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## GAsoccerman

sounds like a dream come true to me....or at least a penthouse story....lol

Go for it and report back. :smthumbup:


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## dcrim

Well, imagine yourself naked with them - both of them. Does that sound like something you'd like to do? Go with the flow, dude. Don't push, but follow their lead and enjoy it. Heck, you might be one of the luckiest guys alive!


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## justean

have fun. enjoy what you have and maybe you wil find the right one.


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## MarkTwain

cheewagacheewaga-

It's nice to be wanted, it's a huge boost to anyone's self esteem. Just enjoy it and let it wash over you. If you want to spice it up a bit, try being a little bit coy, and playing slightly hard to get (but not too hard). When the time comes for it to end, as it surly will - wave it goodbye with good grace. You will have broadened your horizons in the process.


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## Honey

cheewagacheewaga said:


> So this is a weird situation and I have no idea what to make of it.
> 
> Since I got a promotion and a new job at work, I asked out 2 former co-workers to celebrate. They are both beautiful ladies that I had worked professionally with. One is a superior, and one is a peer of mine in terms of classification.
> 
> So we go out, grab dinner and drinks. Turns out they are really good friends and very flirty. They started to be playful with me. I like one of them (the peer of mine) and she flirts with me, I think. For example, she'll rub my face or my hair. This girl, in general, is very giggly and energetic. She isn't shy about laughing and grabbing my arm or my thighs when we're sitting down having a drink.
> 
> They both invited me out and asked me to go partying and drinking with them again. They made it sound like we're this trio pack. What am I to make of this? It's like we worked professionally, but now that I don't work with them, they let their fun side come out on me and I am a little shocked by it. They even warned me about how wild they can get during the evening. Am I just a boy toy, or do they like me, or am I just a friend, or do they think I'm gay?!?!? :scratchhead:


I don't think they would try to touch you or even try to flirt with you, if they thought you wasn't into girls. Hell, what do I know, I had both sex wanting me before.


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## cheewagacheewaga

See, that's the problem with me. I cannot read women or their signs. Every time I think I see a sign of interest, I am wrong and it turns out I am only their friend, and nothing more. Has happened to me SOOO many times that I'm sick of being that nice guy friend that gets shot down. The only sign I'll know if a woman is interested in me is if she jumps on top of me and starts ripping off her clothes. Somehow I must come across to women as really non-threatening and too honest, which I find offensive.


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## Honey

cheewagacheewaga said:


> See, that's the problem with me. I cannot read women or their signs. Every time I think I see a sign of interest, I am wrong and it turns out I am only their friend, and nothing more. Has happened to me SOOO many times that I'm sick of being that nice guy friend that gets shot down. The only sign I'll know if a woman is interested in me is if she jumps on top of me and starts ripping off her clothes. Somehow I must come across to women as really non-threatening and too honest, which I find offensive.


No, guy, don't change the good things about you. Some day you will find the right girl. One that will love the honest/ caring and non-threatening side of you. How on earth do you find that offensive, I'll never know. :scratchhead:


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## cheewagacheewaga

I find it to be offensive because it hasn't really brought any positive results for me, at least the results I want in terms of taking it to a real relationship with a woman. To me, being non-threatening and too honest comes across as weak and effeminate. If these were good traits for a relationship, as you say, then I would have my pick of the ladies, but I don't. Instead I end up with a lot of female friends who see me as a nice guy male friend, like a boy toy. That's why I'm not sure what these 2 girls want from me. Do they like toying with me? I've only had 1 girlfriend, and that was back in high school when I pretended to be a bad boy skater guy. Now I'm 28 years old and truly being myself: a nerdy computer guy who loves to do introverted activities like golf, chess, and play the violin. I haven't had a date or a girlfriend since high school, and that was 10+ years ago!!! Something about me is wrong, and that much I know, since I'm the common denominator in all these failures. There are other things about me that I cannot change, or easily change, like my ethnicity, height, skin problems, and lack of money. I'm just trying to work with what I got and it's been very disappointing. So the only thing I can do is use my brain and move myself up in terms of career and money, and that's my #1 goal right now.


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## draconis

I don't think it is your image as much as your approach to the situation. How many girls have you asked out in the last ten years?

draconis


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## cheewagacheewaga

I've probably asked out about 10-15 girls since college with all 100% rejection. This is usually how it plays out, and I do believe in the "ladder" theory, which basically says that women have 2 ladders: a friends ladder and a romantic partner ladder.

I meet a girl in class, or at orchestra rehearsal, or through the internet. We become REALLY good friends and I go out of my way to be the nice person I am. Helping them move, taking them out to eat, fixing their computer, giving them personal advice, etc... Then I realize that I have strong feelings so I tell that I want to be more than friends. Then of course, they get flattered, but tell me that they aren't interested in me in that way and that I'm a really good guy friend to them. Then I get really hurt and I end up distancing myself from them. It's just too hard to be "just friends" with someone who doesn't reciprocate the same. 

I almost got something going once back in college when I did a lot of sweet things for this girl like organize with her roommate to secretly fix her sentimental watch given to her by her grandmother. I also got us tickets to go watch a jazz show! Then when I told her how I felt, she said she felt the same. I then took her out to lunch the next day and she told me she had thought about it some more and wasn't sure about things between us. Then she ended up going out with another guy a month later. That was the most devastating blow!

And so now I have this current situation with these two girls, which I only like one of them. I already know how it's going to play out the same. I just know it, yet I can't stop myself from repeating the same mistakes. I'm planning to ask her out to brunch some time soon so we can spend some one-on-one time together and just chit-chat. Things will go well, I'll get excited, and we'll do some more little activities here and there, I then fall for her, try to tell her this, and she'll say I'm just a good friend. I can see it all too clearly


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## Chris H.

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I've only had 1 girlfriend, and that was back in high school when I pretended to be a bad boy skater guy. Now I'm 28 years old and truly being myself: a nerdy computer guy who loves to do introverted activities like golf, chess, and play the violin. I haven't had a date or a girlfriend since high school, and that was 10+ years ago!!! Something about me is wrong, and that much I know, since I'm the common denominator in all these failures. There are other things about me that I cannot change, or easily change, like my ethnicity, height, skin problems, and lack of money. I'm just trying to work with what I got and it's been very disappointing. So the only thing I can do is use my brain and move myself up in terms of career and money, and that's my #1 goal right now.


Don't be so hard on yourself cheewa. You sound like you're pretty well put together in the sense that you know what kinds of things you like doing and have some talents. Just be yourself, and eventually the right person will come along. Focus on making the most out of life. If you try to change to get a girlfriend, eventually she'll realize you're not the person she thought you were, and that wouldn't end up well. 

Maybe try doing more social stuff, like joining clubs with common interests (i.e. golf, music). I'm the same way in that I don't like a lot of social activities, but I thought about if things were different and I hadn't met my wife, how would I meet girls? Maybe online dating, who knows...


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## Honey

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I find it to be offensive because it hasn't really brought any positive results for me, at least the results I want in terms of taking it to a real relationship with a woman. To me, being non-threatening and too honest comes across as weak and effeminate. If these were good traits for a relationship, as you say, then I would have my pick of the ladies, but I don't. Instead I end up with a lot of female friends who see me as a nice guy male friend, like a boy toy. That's why I'm not sure what these 2 girls want from me. Do they like toying with me? I've only had 1 girlfriend, and that was back in high school when I pretended to be a bad boy skater guy. Now I'm 28 years old and truly being myself: a nerdy computer guy who loves to do introverted activities like golf, chess, and play the violin. I haven't had a date or a girlfriend since high school, and that was 10+ years ago!!! Something about me is wrong, and that much I know, since I'm the common denominator in all these failures. There are other things about me that I cannot change, or easily change, like my ethnicity, height, skin problems, and lack of money. I'm just trying to work with what I got and it's been very disappointing. So the only thing I can do is use my brain and move myself up in terms of career and money, and that's my #1 goal right now.



Skin problem..










Your height.. should not be a probelm.


Money..
everyone has that problem, dude.


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## cheewagacheewaga

I wish my skin problem was as simple as pimples, but it's not. I've been to a dermatologist and she told me that I have mild-to-severe eczema, and I've had it ever since I was little kid. It has left a lot of scars. I still have it on my face, my hands, my fingers, my neck, my elbow, my toes, back of my knees, and a little on my back. It's really disgusting, and this is even AFTER all my oral medications and topical creme medications. I know it's disgusting, but I don't hide it because I've gotten used to people asking me what is wrong with my hands/face/legs/neck, etc... It really doesn't phase me, but I KNOW it's not attractive, if that makes any sense.

I'm only 5'8". The average height of Americans is 5'10". It seems like a majority of the women around me are just as tall as me, if not taller!

And yes, everyone has money problems, and that's exactly why money is an important factor. 

Anyhow, going back to my dilemma of these 2 women, we are in contact again to go out to a nice restaurant next week to celebrate this $500 bonus I received for working on a programming project, and to also grab some drinks in the city. I have to admit that I'm a little excited about it since I get to dress up and be around 2 beautiful women, but the other half of me is a little defensive because I wonder what they want from me. Eh, maybe a free meal.


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## draconis

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I wish my skin problem was as simple as pimples, but it's not. I've been to a dermatologist and she told me that I have mild-to-severe eczema, and I've had it ever since I was little kid. It has left a lot of scars. I still have it on my face, my hands, my fingers, my neck, my elbow, my toes, back of my knees, and a little on my back. It's really disgusting, and this is even AFTER all my oral medications and topical creme medications. I know it's disgusting, but I don't hide it because I've gotten used to people asking me what is wrong with hands/face/legs/neck, etc... It really doesn't phase me, but I KNOW it's not attractive, if that makes any sense.
> 
> I'm only 5'8". The average height of Americans is 5'10".
> 
> And yes, everyone has money problems, and that's exactly why money is an important factor.
> 
> Anyhow, going back to my dilemma of these 2 women, we are in contact again to go out to a nice restaurant next week to celebrate this $500 bonus I received for working on a programming project, and to also grab some drinks in the city. I have to admit that I'm a little excited about it since I get to dress up and be around 2 beautiful women, but the other half of me is a little defensive because I wonder what they want from me. Eh, maybe a free meal.


Let's see I am 5'8"1/2 And I also have eczema among many other things. When you limit yourself you become a self fulfilling prophesy. You will create the good or bad situations in your life.

draconis


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## cheewagacheewaga

Maybe that extra 1/2" makes all the difference! Or, you actually lucked out and found someone that likes you for who you are. I still believe that women like this are far and few, and that you have something that she wants. As they say: Nobody does something for nothing!

I agree in the self fulfilling prophecy, but to think one thing and to act on it, or not act on it, is another. I'm not sitting here complaining AND giving up. I'm still out there interested in women and doing my best to work with what I've got. And sometimes in life, the odds are always going to be against you. You either fight back hard, find another way, or just give up on it. 

I'm just really frustrated and bitter about my experiences, and I love to rant about it anonymously on here and stir up a discussion!


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## draconis

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Maybe that extra 1/2" makes all the difference! Or, you actually lucked out and found someone that likes you for who you are. I still believe that women like this are far and few, and that you have something that she wants. As they say: Nobody does something for nothing!
> 
> I agree in the self fulfilling prophecy, but to think one thing and to act on it, or not act on it, is another. I'm not sitting here complaining AND giving up. I'm still out there interested in women and doing my best to work with what I've got. And sometimes in life, the odds are always going to be against you. You either fight back hard, find another way, or just give up on it.
> 
> I'm just really frustrated and bitter about my experiences, and I love to rant about it anonymously on here and stir up a discussion!


"A winner is a loser that got up to give it one more time."

draconis


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## Honey

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I wish my skin problem was as simple as pimples, but it's not. I've been to a dermatologist and she told me that I have mild-to-severe eczema, and I've had it ever since I was little kid. It has left a lot of scars. I still have it on my face, my hands, my fingers, my neck, my elbow, my toes, back of my knees, and a little on my back. It's really disgusting, and this is even AFTER all my oral medications and topical creme medications. I know it's disgusting, but I don't hide it because I've gotten used to people asking me what is wrong with my hands/face/legs/neck, etc... It really doesn't phase me, but I KNOW it's not attractive, if that makes any sense.
> 
> I'm only 5'8". The average height of Americans is 5'10". It seems like a majority of the women around me are just as tall as me, if not taller!
> 
> And yes, everyone has money problems, and that's exactly why money is an important factor.
> 
> Anyhow, going back to my dilemma of these 2 women, we are in contact again to go out to a nice restaurant next week to celebrate this $500 bonus I received for working on a programming project, and to also grab some drinks in the city. I have to admit that I'm a little excited about it since I get to dress up and be around 2 beautiful women, but the other half of me is a little defensive because I wonder what they want from me. Eh, maybe a free meal.



Have you ever tried Proactiv before? It is good.


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## cheewagacheewaga

I have seen the infomercial for Proactive. I'm not concerned about getting my skin baby smooth, but rather it's the scars and scabs from my excessive itching from my eczema and allergies. In fact, probably using any cosmetic cremes and lotions will exacerbate my itching. I can't even use regular soap or lotions because it contains chemicals and my skin reacts to it. I have to use a brand called Cetaphil and only do "dry" shaves on my face because shaving gels make my face swell up and turn red.

So Monday is the big night! The 2 ladies are taking me out for me b-day to a nice restaurant. Such sweet ladies


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## Honey

Don't give up. Go to doctors until you find the one that can help you. There are some that are better than others, so don't just go with what one or two might have told you. Try to find top doctors in your area, or close by if you can't travel to them. Use the internet to find top doctors in that field. Good luck to you !


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## swedish

Have fun tonight ... look forward to hearing all about it


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## MarkTwain

cheewagacheewaga-

High quality fish oil. Get the most expensive brand with a high EPA and DHA content. Kiss your skin problems goodbye... This will also put your libido into overdrive, which will motivate you to put more effort into getting laid.


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## Honey

MarkTwain said:


> cheewagacheewaga-
> 
> High quality fish oil. Get the most expensive brand with a high EPA and DHA content. Kiss your skin problems goodbye... This will also put your libido into overdrive, which will motivate you to put more effort into getting laid.


Yeah, I heard about this too.


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## cheewagacheewaga

Ooops - disregard ...


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## cheewagacheewaga

I wonder if those fish oil pills work? Although I do like generally eating fresh and real foods. Any types of fish have high fish oils? Tuna? Salmon? Does eating sushi count? I love sushi![/QUOTE]



swedish said:


> Have fun tonight ... look forward to hearing all about it


So I am back from my evening out with the 2 ladies for my birthday, and as I had previously mentioned, I like the younger one (26 years old). They took me to a nice restaurant and we had a good time eating fine food. The younger one is very touchy-feely, but I heard that this is very common with white people. Is this true? That can really be confusing to me. Nonetheless, I pretty much know that they see me as a good friend. We talked a little about my status and they asked me how I'm doing with the ladies. I lied and told them that I'm meeting a lot of women and that I'm keeping my options open. I didn't want to sound like a loser and say that nothing is happening. So they both offered to take me to a bar one day and would help introduce me to ladies at the bar and "hook up". Yuck - no thanks! So at that point, I knew that they both just see me as a friend and nothing more. I'm a little bummed about that since I really did like the younger girl. I'm just destined to only make friends with women!!!  I'm not masculine enough or something.


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## GAsoccerman

what they did was call your bluff, when you said you had all kinds of women and kept your options open.....what they did was call your bluff.

The touchy feely thing is not common with white women, my wife was a NO PDA when we first met. Just some women are touchy feely, some arent.

My guess is she was hitting on you, but you did not read the signs correctly.

If a woman is touching me then I think she wants more (not anymore that I am married, but as a young dude)

You need a little confident boost my friend, you need a good wingman


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## cheewagacheewaga

GAsoccerman said:


> what they did was call your bluff, when you said you had all kinds of women and kept your options open.....what they did was call your bluff.


What does this mean? :scratchhead:


GAsoccerman said:


> The touchy feely thing is not common with white women, my wife was a NO PDA when we first met. Just some women are touchy feely, some arent.


And that's the difficult part. Is she like this with other men? Or only to me?


GAsoccerman said:


> My guess is she was hitting on you, but you did not read the signs correctly.


It's quite possible, but then again ...


GAsoccerman said:


> If a woman is touching me then I think she wants more (not anymore that I am married, but as a young dude)


I've been in this situation before where I THINK a woman is interested in me, or that my gut is telling me that she likes me, but then I'm completely wrong. 


GAsoccerman said:


> You need a little confident boost my friend, you need a good wingman


Confidence would help if I actually got results, but for the past 10+ years, it's been downhill with women. 
Maybe I can pay someone to be a wingma for me, like on Craigslist?


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## GAsoccerman

Bluff...like in cards, you bet high even though you have a bad hand, hoping the other person will believe you.

You said you were playing the field with Numerous women...when you're not, they caught onto you and played you.

You really think to much here, make your move, you are to worried about offending the women, if you go over the line they will surely let you know.

would you rather Crash and Burn or never be in the race?

It is funny had my 20 year reunion in July, ran into allot of old friends, female ones especially, many of them I was good friends with back in HS, ONLY to find out at the reunion they all had crushes because I was decent looking and a nice guy.....Yet I had Zero self confidence to ask the women out becuase I thought they were friends, they they were not interested, they I would step over my boundries, when to make my move...I thought way to much instead of just reacting and doing it......If I only knew back in the day. 

Do you have any good male friends that you hang out with? My friends love me as a wingman, becuase I am married and I often start the conversation with a group of women just out of the blue, once the women find out I am married...they (the guys) swoop in for the kill...LOL I just sit back and relax, also my drinks are paid for by my friends... :smthumbup:


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## cheewagacheewaga

My uncle has also told me that I think way too much. I just can't help it because that's the way I am, whether I'm at work or sitting at home. I'm a computer programmer, I need to think! 

I know that I should at least be "crashing and burning" out there, but the self-conscious and defensive side of me won't let me go that far. I've been rejected so many times that it is actually hurtful. Contrary to what people say, rejection does NOT get easier. It only reinforces my negative views about myself and makes me question myself. Particularly right now since I got a new job, a promotion, and have these 2 nice women who treated me out (maybe only as friends). I just don't want to ruin something if this is the best as it gets.

I do not have any good male friends my age. I hang around with "old farts". I'm 28, and most of these guys are in their 40's and 50's. The reason they are older is because I like to play classical music, chess, and golf with them. Those are my buddies, and I always joke about how old they are.


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## Honey

Old fart, huh. Well, right there you must look better than they do.


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## cheewagacheewaga

They are well aged men, and I wouldn't mind looking like them when I get to that age. One of them is gay and he takes care of himself really well. The other is okay looking and he has a beautiful wife! The catch? He's a wealthy University professor so he has status, fame, and $$$!


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## draconis

cheewagacheewaga said:


> They are well aged men, and I wouldn't mind looking like them when I get to that age. One of them is gay and he takes care of himself really well. The other is okay looking and he has a beautiful wife! The catch? He's a wealthy University professor so he has status, fame, and $$$!


How about G. Ireland a short, average guy with an average job. Met his now wife when he worked for BK. Nothing special about him other than his humor. There are a million guys you never hear from or about BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT RICH.

draconis


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## GAsoccerman

I agree with Drac...My wife is smoking Hot, she really loves me due to my corky personality, I am a goof ball and she LOVES that. She has been with me when i was dirt poor, so money was no issue and to this day she makes more money then I do.


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## cheewagacheewaga

I don't want to digress too much since I started another thread on looks, money, and power. So, if it wasn't money, then was it because of your looks and/or power? Women are attracted to SMP-Sex, money, and power! That's not to say that will guarantee you a long and lasting relationship, but having SMP will surely help you meet women and increase your odds to find a partner. I don't have looks (sex) or the power (status), but I can work on money by working hard and saving. In some cases, having money can increase your status. Now, tying this into my 2 women friends situation, I need to show the younger one I like that I'm saving up and planning to buy a car in the next few years. Right now she's a starving pre-medical student trying to get into medical school.


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## draconis

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I don't want to digress too much since I started another thread on looks, money, and power. So, if it wasn't money, then was it because of your looks and/or power? Women are attracted to SMP-Sex, money, and power! That's not to say that will guarantee you a long and lasting relationship, but having SMP will surely help you meet women and increase your odds to find a partner. I don't have looks (sex) or the power (status), but I can work on money by working hard and saving. In some cases, having money can increase your status. Now, tying this into my 2 women friends situation, I need to show the younger one I like that I'm saving up and planning to buy a car in the next few years. Right now she's a starving pre-medical student trying to get into medical school.


You'll never get her, and sad still is you'll never know why.

draconis


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## Honey

GAsoccerman said:


> I agree with Drac...My wife is smoking Hot, she really loves me due to my corky personality, I am a goof ball and she LOVES that. She has been with me when i was dirt poor, so money was no issue and to this day she makes more money then I do.


Good to know I'm not the only goof ball on this forum.


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## draconis

GAsoccerman said:


> I agree with Drac...My wife is smoking Hot, she really loves me due to my corky personality, I am a goof ball and she LOVES that. She has been with me when i was dirt poor, so money was no issue and to this day she makes more money then I do.


I use to make four times as much money as the wife, now she makes about twice what I do. But she never knew what I made until after we were married.

draconis


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## Honey

draconis said:


> I use to make four times as much money as the wife, now she makes about twice what I do. But she never knew what I made until after we were married.
> 
> draconis


Then you know it wasn't money she married you for. 

Hmm.. what did she marry you for? :scratchhead: 

Just kidding ! 

:rofl:


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## cheewagacheewaga

Just had a thought about my situation with the 2 women. Since I like the younger women, is it possible that the older woman is trying to hook me up with the younger woman?


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## cheewagacheewaga

So I am making progress in that I have a brunch date with the younger girl this Sunday. Kind of nervous about it and not sure what to talk about. How do I let her know that I'm interested in her without being too forward or making it awkward? Hurdling over the friendship line is always my problem. For example, can I ask her why a great girl like her is still single?

I got her a little funny inside-joke gift (a Sarah Palin pin) to give to her on Sunday. I think she will like it.


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## MarkTwain

Be flirty with her, and look at her like you desire her - if you do. If you don't, then don't bother trying to force it, just be friends. One day you will meet someone who presses your HOT button. Then you will know what to do.


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## cheewagacheewaga

Well I'm back from my brunch date. I now feel more confused. She did joke and say that she was a bad "brunch date" because she couldn't finish her food. Other than that, we joked and talked as usual and we walked around the shopping block. She then gave me a hug good bye. I've seen her give hugs to everyone so I don't feel any special about this.

I also did discover that she is just a touchy-feely person in general, and all the touching she does on me is no more different than someone else. We talked to a stranger about the economy and the stranger cracked a joke. My brunch date then immediately grabbed the stranger's arm and laughed. 

So, I'm back to square one, which is to continue finding someone who would be a good fit for me. This one seemed like a good fit for me, but unfortunately it'll take about 100 other females like her for me to find one that is interested in me.


----------



## Honey

Oh, stop having that attitude, dude. People can pick up how you are feeling about yourself, dude. You should be more funny too, and worry less about what others think of you. Sometimes when you act this way, things happen to you in a good way.


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## draconis

What is so wrong with this one...one date with a nice girl that is an outgoing person and you are willing to call it quits?

draconis


----------



## Ashley

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Well I'm back from my brunch date. I now feel more confused. She did joke and say that she was a bad "brunch date" because she couldn't finish her food. Other than that, we joked and talked as usual and we walked around the shopping block. She then gave me a hug good bye. I've seen her give hugs to everyone so I don't feel any special about this.
> 
> I also did discover that she is just a touchy-feely person in general, and all the touching she does on me is no more different than someone else. We talked to a stranger about the economy and the stranger cracked a joke. My brunch date then immediately grabbed the stranger's arm and laughed.
> 
> So, I'm back to square one, which is to continue finding someone who would be a good fit for me. This one seemed like a good fit for me, but unfortunately it'll take about 100 other females like her for me to find one that is interested in me.



Oh, 100, oh i see.. keep waiting dude, by the time you reach the number 100 you will be 2 to 500 years old yourself.

To be true, the way you are talking, it will be best for her not to be with you, i mean.. do you actualy read what you wrote there? 
Can you imagine how she will feel if she was to read that!? 

and think of what you are for thinking that way of her?
Now try to reverse the state, and imagine it was her talking about you that way.. ow! now, do you get it?

You are being arrogant and putting yourself like being over all the rest, and at the same time drowning in selfpity in such a degree that it is to throw.
What are your problem exactly? 
you got dated by 2 super looking girls who both work where you do, and then got a date with the one you are most interested into.
And what you do from there? you decide to trash her because all went very fine, and she is exactly the kind you would like to have. :scratchhead:

Its not a date you need, but a shrink.
Stop overanalysing things and people, and be more direct, doing things out of your heart and out of an immediat feelings. 
you are losing your life in being cautious.

you are what is call a defaitiste, meaning someone who is so pessimist that he will see something bad no matter how good things are.
And the truth is that you enjoy that state totaly and thats why you keep it that way. 
You expect things to go bad and expect it so much that when they go fine and they always do, you are deeply disapointed, and htats what i read in your psot above: your deep disapointment in seeing that things went so greate,a nd thats why oyu want to drop her! LOL  :rofl: :lol:

If she had kissed you, you will have say she went too far too fast, and was an easy girl, and ask us why she did it, and found all kind of reasons to suspect her and trash her.
Hej, your the guy, its at you to initiate and not her all the time.
Did you gave he another date?
I dont know what the two of you talk about, but if your way of viewing things show in the way you talk to her, then, poor poor girl! 

Thats not your look you need to do something about, but the inside, your way to see the world.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

draconis said:


> What is so wrong with this one...one date with a nice girl that is an outgoing person and you are willing to call it quits?
> 
> draconis


Yes. I wasn't seeing or feeling any interest on her end. 



Ashley said:


> To be true, the way you are talking, it will be best for her not to be with you, i mean.. do you actualy read what you wrote there?


Yes


Ashley said:


> Can you imagine how she will feel if she was to read that!?


I don't see why she would get offended about what I wrote if she were to read this. She IS a touchy-feely person. She DOES like giving everyone hugs. 



Ashley said:


> and think of what you are for thinking that way of her?
> Now try to reverse the state, and imagine it was her talking about you that way.. ow! now, do you get it?


I would not get offended if she said I was a touchy-feely person or that I liked giving people hugs. How could that be offensive?



Ashley said:


> You are being arrogant and putting yourself like being over all the rest, and at the same time drowning in selfpity in such a degree that it is to throw.
> What are your problem exactly?


I don't see how I am being arrogant or drowning in self pity. All I said was that I don't see that she's interested and that I need to continue my quest in finding someone who will show interest in me, and that it's not going to be easy since there are some factors against me. My problems, in terms of dating, is that I do not make that much money and have bad skin problems, as well as being a minority stuck in a culture that I can never fully adjust to. It's a tough one to overcome, but I'm not giving up on dating or trying to make a better life for myself in the U.S.



Ashley said:


> you got dated by 2 super looking girls who both work where you do, and then got a date with the one you are most interested into.
> And what you do from there? you decide to trash her because all went very fine, and she is exactly the kind you would like to have. :scratchhead:


"Trash" is an excessive word. She is a great person and we would be a good fit, but again, I didn't see or sense any bit of attraction from her end. It just felt like 2 friends going to grab brunch. So in that sense, I am basically changing my mode of intention to just being friends and leaving it at that. I won't actively make any effort to go beyond that friendship level.




Ashley said:


> Its not a date you need, but a shrink.
> Stop overanalysing things and people, and be more direct, doing things out of your heart and out of an immediat feelings.
> you are losing your life in being cautious.


I don't find over analyzing a negative. This pertains to my job and I was brought up to think, think, and think by my parents. In fact, it's because of the way that I think that I was able to save my group a lot of money and get myself a promotion. I love the fact that I can spot disaster and problems a mile away. People come to me for problem solving and solutions. I find that to be my strongest point! And no, I do not believe in trusting or acting on my emotions and feelings because they lead to irrational behaviors and actions. If I'm going to do something, I need to know I am 100% confident in the preparation and outcome.



Ashley said:


> you are what is call a defaitiste, meaning someone who is so pessimist that he will see something bad no matter how good things are.
> And the truth is that you enjoy that state totaly and thats why you keep it that way.
> You expect things to go bad and expect it so much that when they go fine and they always do, you are deeply disapointed, and htats what i read in your psot above: your deep disapointment in seeing that things went so greate,a nd thats why oyu want to drop her! LOL  :rofl: :lol:


Everyone has different standards of things going "fine". In my perspective, this brunch date didn't go as I hoped. Yes, I am disappointed in this brunch date, but I would not say I take pleasure out of the disappointment. I was looking forward to this brunch date with her and wanted to see some form of interest as more than friends on her end.



Ashley said:


> If she had kissed you, you will have say she went too far too fast, and was an easy girl, and ask us why she did it, and found all kind of reasons to suspect her and trash her.
> Hej, your the guy, its at you to initiate and not her all the time.
> Did you gave he another date?
> I dont know what the two of you talk about, but if your way of viewing things show in the way you talk to her, then, poor poor girl!
> 
> Thats not your look you need to do something about, but the inside, your way to see the world.


If she would have kissed me, then I would be celebrating!  I would ask her out again if I felt and seen some form of attraction to me. Since I'm not seeing that, there's no point in going forward.

Ashley, and others, I appreciate the honest criticism and points of views. It's always nice to see things from a different perspective.


----------



## Ashley

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Yes. I wasn't seeing or feeling any interest on her end.
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> I don't see why she would get offended about what I wrote if she were to read this. She IS a touchy-feely person. She DOES like giving everyone hugs.
> 
> 
> 
> I would not get offended if she said I was a touchy-feely person or that I liked giving people hugs. How could that be offensive?
> 
> 
> I don't see how I am being arrogant or drowning in self pity. All I said was that I don't see that she's interested and that I need to continue my quest in finding someone who will show interest in me, and that it's not going to be easy since there are some factors against me. My problems, in terms of dating, is that I do not make that much money and have bad skin problems, as well as being a minority stuck in a culture that I can never fully adjust to. It's a tough one to overcome, but I'm not giving up on dating or trying to make a better life for myself in the U.S.
> 
> 
> "Trash" is an excessive word. She is a great person and we would be a good fit, but again, I didn't see or sense any bit of attraction from her end. It just felt like 2 friends going to grab brunch. So in that sense, I am basically changing my mode of intention to just being friends and leaving it at that. I won't actively make any effort to go beyond that friendship level.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't find over analyzing a negative. This pertains to my job and I was brought up to think, think, and think by my parents. In fact, it's because of the way that I think that I was able to save my group a lot of money and get myself a promotion. I love the fact that I can spot disaster and problems a mile away. People come to me for problem solving and solutions. I find that to be my strongest point! And no, I do not believe in trusting or acting on my emotions and feelings because they lead to irrational behaviors and actions. If I'm going to do something, I need to know I am 100% confident in the preparation and outcome.
> 
> 
> Everyone has different standards of things going "fine". In my perspective, this brunch date didn't go as I hoped. Yes, I am disappointed in this brunch date, but I would not say I take pleasure out of the disappointment. I was looking forward to this brunch date with her and wanted to see some form of interest as more than friends on her end.
> 
> 
> 
> If she would have kissed me, then I would be celebrating!  I would ask her out again if I felt and seen some form of attraction to me. Since I'm not seeing that, there's no point in going forward.
> 
> Ashley, and others, I appreciate the honest criticism and points of views. It's always nice to see things from a different perspective.


Thanks for your answer and now i see what your problem is.

you have to understand that you cannot apply logical thinking on emotional subject and that you have to rely a lot on your emotion and intuition to know if the girl is interested in you or not, and you also have to show interest in her in an emotional way for her to react.
she is a woman, not a robot..
A human without emotions is super stupid.. never heard of the emotional mind? and the emotional IQ?

you cant expect her to kiss you on a first date
she face the same dilema as you do, you are both work mate.. so if it has to come from someone it will be you , you are the man too, so its you you you on all level: you are her boss, you are the male, you are the one that invited her to that date.
You are new on the dating scene, and you better begin to change the way you do things since it never work in the past.
Your problem is that you are too cold and calculated.
Women can feel it a mile away.
Drop it.
Be more sensitive and more surprising, do unexpected things, say things as you feel them. Do something different. Conrolling butts are never cool in a date..
It is you who wants more and who wants it desperatly, you have to invite her out again and should have grib the chance .
All you did was waiting for something to happen. And guess what? HER TOO! :smthumbup:
Women wait for THE WORD to fal from your mouth, for the gesture that will mean something, like you taking her hand, or putting your hand on hers, or doing something to show interestin her.
ut it has to come form your heart and not form yoru brain! It has tobe a feeling you have , a feelign of love for her. If oyu do not love her and do not have any feeling of love for her then why did you dated her?
Physical touching have different meaning and its not cause she grab the arm of that stranger laughing that it mean the same when she grabs yours.
Women are good at concealing things, so with you only using mr eisntein to read her you will have see NOTHING at all.
Teach yourself to let go, take some weed if you have to.

what if her too was deeply disapointed because thus you invited her it turns out all being friends friends and she had expected the whole world.. from YOU!
think over that..
but you will never know since you were so detached fom your feelings.
Another thing, good that it partain to your job to think and analyse stuff, but dating is not part of your work, and you are not at work while dating.
So leave it home, and put in your dating-suite of sweetness and of emotion, when you go out on a date.
Invite her again and try that.
Bring roses this time.
Break the ice.

All you risk is getting kissed by the woman you wish it the most from! 


PS: what minority are you? 


(Ps if you know someone from latin america or Argentina, ask them for some tips, they got no problem datying girls, they were born with the compleete software.  :rofl:  )


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

Ashley said:


> you have to understand that you cannot apply logical thinking on emotional subject and that you have to rely a lot on your emotion and intuition to know if the girl is interested in you or not, and you also have to show interest in her in an emotional way for her to react.
> she is a woman, not a robot..


Perhaps that has been my pitfalls in that I do not want to get too emotional or show that side of me. I just see so many people make mistakes by trusting their emotions and feelings. Ideally I would like to mentally and logically connect with a woman, and then let the emotions come through. It seems that this is not how women work, or attraction for that matter.




Ashley said:


> A human without emotions is super stupid.. never heard of the emotional mind? and the emotional IQ?


Well, I wouldn't say that would make an individual stupid, per se, but I do agree that an individual needs to have a well balanced intelligence in as many areas as he or she can get. 



Ashley said:


> you cant expect her to kiss you on a first date


Why not? Some women sleep with a guy on the first date.



Ashley said:


> she face the same dilema as you do, you are both work mate.. so if it has to come from someone it will be you , you are the man too, so its you you you on all level: you are her boss, you are the male, you are the one that invited her to that date.
> You are new on the dating scene, and you better begin to change the way you do things since it never work in the past.


I agree, to an extent. Whatever I have been doing has not worked... AT ALL! 


Ashley said:


> Your problem is that you are too cold and calculated.
> Women can feel it a mile away.
> Drop it.


Ouch! How am I being cold and calculated? :scratchhead:



Ashley said:


> Be more sensitive and more surprising, do unexpected things, say things as you feel them. Do something different. Conrolling butts are never cool in a date..
> It is you who wants more and who wants it desperatly, you have to invite her out again and should have grib the chance .
> All you did was waiting for something to happen. And guess what? HER TOO! :smthumbup:
> Women wait for THE WORD to fal from your mouth, for the gesture that will mean something, like you taking her hand, or putting your hand on hers, or doing something to show interestin her.
> ut it has to come form your heart and not form yoru brain! It has tobe a feeling you have , a feelign of love for her. If oyu do not love her and do not have any feeling of love for her then why did you dated her?


I see what you are saying. When I was with her this morning on the brunch date, I did want to put my hands around her waist or just touch her back as we were walking around, but I did not want to touch her for fear of rejection or sexual harassment. I was also a little nervous and was trying to think of things to make the conversation interesting and funny. Of course, most of the stuff I said did not come out correctly so things probably backfired.



Ashley said:


> Physical touching have different meaning and its not cause she grab the arm of that stranger laughing that it mean the same when she grabs yours.
> Women are good at concealing things, so with you only using mr eisntein to read her you will have see NOTHING at all.
> Teach yourself to let go, take some weed if you have to.


I also got advice from a college professor a long time ago to do some weed to help loosen myself up, however, I will never smoke. Alcohol, sure, but no smoking for me. It's disgusting.



Ashley said:


> what if her too was deeply disapointed because thus you invited her it turns out all being friends friends and she had expected the whole world.. from YOU!
> think over that..
> but you will never know since you were so detached fom your feelings.
> Another thing, good that it partain to your job to think and analyse stuff, but dating is not part of your work, and you are not at work while dating.
> So leave it home, and put in your dating-suite of sweetness and of emotion, when you go out on a date.
> Invite her again and try that.
> Bring roses this time.
> Break the ice.
> 
> All you risk is getting kissed by the woman you wish it the most from!


Good point about dating and work being separate. I just pride myself on my thinking and analyzing skills since it has gotten me through many problems in school and life. I figure I could use the same skills to solve my dating dilemma. I just don't like relying on my emotions to guide me since I may do something stupid. Assuming that's how attraction operates, I will have to change.



Ashley said:


> PS: what minority are you?


Japanese. Very traditional.



Ashley said:


> (Ps if you know someone from latin america or Argentina, ask them for some tips, they got no problem datying girls, they were born with the compleete software.  :rofl:  )



I don't know any latin American or Argentina guys.


----------



## Ashley

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Perhaps that has been my pitfalls in that I do not want to get too emotional or show that side of me. I just see so many people make mistakes by trusting their emotions and feelings. Ideally I would like to mentally and logically connect with a woman, and then let the emotions come through. It seems that this is not how women work, or attraction for that matter.
> 
> *Its not how men work either..
> youc ant separate the logial form the emotional . Not matter how ratioanl you think oyu are emotions will color it one way or another. In tyour case it colors it all since you are rational for fear of rejections.. meanign you act totaly out of a fear you have deep rooted in you and let your fears control your actiosn and your thoughts.. meaning all your "rational" thouhts. To be honst what you do is irrational.. but you will first see that later on, once you will have go over the stage you are in now in oyur life.*
> 
> Well, I wouldn't say that would make an individual stupid, per se, but I do agree that an individual needs to have a well balanced intelligence in as many areas as he or she can get.
> 
> * oh yes it does.. never heard of the genius who couldnt lace his shoes?  thats cuase they were compeltely lacking emotional intelligence.. Really intelligent people have a very high emotional IQ. Not for nothigng that they have totaly remade the tests.. Emotions are not a shame or a silly thing that can be ignored. Its emotion who decide how good you are in public and in relationships and in any social situation. If you are very good with emotions, and very good at sensing otehrs emotions and very sensible ot it, and very intuitiv, and nanlytical too then there is very little that you cannot do an you will be a perfect leader. If your emotional skills are low, you will be very porr in social situations and wont go very far.
> We are emotional beings, more than intellectual.
> The words are abotu 10% of the communication, so is the rational part: 10% of all wahts goign on in our life or even less. What really matters is the emotional, whats beneath the surface, in between words, in the eyes, the move, body language, thats what your mind register,a nd the smell. Not consciously but thats on that that we base all our expectatiosn and evaluation of all our encounters already after 10 minutes.
> If oyu downsize the importance of it, you lose every chance to know wahts going on.
> you might feel in control, but in reality you are in the dark and got absolutly no idea of what is going on.*
> 
> Why not? Some women sleep with a guy on the first date.
> 
> * exactly! And waht do mensay on that type of women? Oh they enjoy it a lot, but they will say of her "she is an easy girl" meaning a trash and that they will enver marry a girl who slept with htem on a first date. Polls have been made about that and all men or over 90% of them said that! And women knows it, and all women magz and internet site for women always warn them: Never sleep with the guy on your first date or you will never see him again or will ruin your chance to have a long term relationship with him! So there. Add to it that you are her boss and she know you form work, she will certainly dont do so with someone form work.. and risk getting a bad reputation as "the easy girl from XXX dptmt who sleep on first date"..  *
> 
> 
> I agree, to an extent. Whatever I have been doing has not worked... AT ALL!
> 
> *then, time to change. and found out why, really why, it didnt work, and man, its not your make up there is something wrong with. the problem is inside. Deep rooted inside you. *
> 
> Ouch! How am I being cold and calculated? :scratchhead:
> 
> *how?! LOL! funy you ask, you said yourself you think things through and you NEVER act impulsivly, out of the feelings that you have on the moment. You wait, you think, you want to be sure, absolutly sure, 100% sure.. thats being calculated and cold! No place ever for any feelings! thats cold!
> And beside, NOTHING is ever 100% sure in life..
> you should know that by now.
> And in relationships even less. You cant never know unless you tried, and even once married you cant be sure 100%.
> You cant be 100 % sure of what this menu in that restaurant, that dish is going to taste, yet you got to take a plunge unless you want to starve..huh? right now you are making you starve in love, for FEAR to take the plunge..
> 
> Dont fear your fears, kill them all!  *
> 
> 
> 
> I see what you are saying. When I was with her this morning on the brunch date, I did want to put my hands around her waist or just touch her back as we were walking around, but I did not want to touch her for fear of rejection or sexual harassment. I was also a little nervous and was trying to think of things to make the conversation interesting and funny. Of course, most of the stuff I said did not come out correctly so things probably backfired.
> 
> *Sexual harrassement? how? you were on date, dating, romantic one, not at work. You cna only be accused of sexual harrassement if oyu do htings at work agaisnt the person will and not while walking romanticaly after a brunch.. you gave yourself excuses to dont act on an impulse you had and that she had and that you could feel, but blinded oyu form it, for fear of.. your fears of rejections, ditto: you elt your life being dictated not by your mind and thoguths and logic, but by your fears exclusivly.
> It is your fears who beat the drum of oyur life, and oyru fears who take you where they want by the noze ,a nsd your fear who decide where you are goign to go next and what to od and what not to do. meaning: you are never yoruself no matter where oyua re.
> And how attractive is soemone who can never be himself and who is totaly submited and depending on his inner fears?
> How free are you? Not at all.
> You should have acted on that impulse and you should work on that and reject all yoru fears.
> imagine your fears, draw them like 3 or 4 colone, big one, as big as your fears are, imagine those colone in front of you,a nd punch them, destroy them , imagine them breaking in small pieces and stamp them til there is only powder of them Repeat the exercise for a week. Vanquish your fears. And each time one of them resurface, imagine its column, and what you did wiht it and destroy it again. Free yourself from yoru fears! Thats an order! You will feel better and soon be able to overhear their messages. take her hand and put your arm aroudn her wrist in a very romantic way.
> Dont try to sound interesting. If you dont know what to say and feel embarassed, tell ehr " I feel embarrassed i dont know what to say". Thats simple, natural, and charming!  Smile at her. No need for ords, enjoy the silence, and the FEELINGS flowing between you two. Rediscover yoru body and the hability to feel and give place to your feeligns and to hers, and be with her like someone you love, not a task you have to conquer.*
> 
> 
> I also got advice from a college professor a long time ago to do some weed to help loosen myself up, however, I will never smoke. Alcohol, sure, but no smoking for me. It's disgusting.
> 
> * WOW!  if a college professor actualy advised you to do so, then you must have been so stiff that he took pity on you, cause i never heard of a profesor advising pupils to take drugs!
> :lol:
> Then eat a cake make with weed. you will have a great fun, and it will help you to come back to you body and be more aware of your own feelings. Alcohl aint better and dont have the wished effect here. I am not encouraging you to take drugs, but just to try it as an experiment to know how it feel to loosen up. you are form Japan, try meditation and being in natural environemnt and listenign to all your senses. Thats also a way to reconnect with yourself without use of any drugs.
> Also do sily things, be a child again. Do something extravagant once in a wile, awake the child that is in you and care for him.
> That will do you a world of good. Use your imaginative and artistic powers to overcome fear, and reconquer yourself from the hands of fear..
> Buy the book call "PRONOIA" the believe that the universe conspire to make your life as good as possible" LOL buy it, read it, let you be inspired by it and i promise you to have a good laguh but also a very amasing discovery and journey through something oyu never knew you were capable of.
> i realy warmly recommend you to read that book, you need it a lot. It wil also give oyu an excellent subject of conversation in your future dates, and you are sure and certain to surprise the girl very positivly..  *
> 
> 
> Good point about dating and work being separate. I just pride myself on my thinking and analyzing skills since it has gotten me through many problems in school and life. I figure I could use the same skills to solve my dating dilemma. I just don't like relying on my emotions to guide me since I may do something stupid. Assuming that's how attraction operates, I will have to change.
> 
> * yes, very good desicion. Remember that when oyu have a case of broken heart no matter how oyu analyse it and try to understand it, it wil never change the state you are on: pain, deep pain.. brain cant heal heart. No matte rhow logicaly you tell yourself this i shouldnt feel for ehr, heart is stronger.
> 
> You learn much more in life through your heart than through your mind alone.
> use intuitive thougths, instead, develop your intuition and focus on doing so willingly. Learn to relay on your 6th sense.
> The most illogical solutions are the right ones. All greate discoveries in science were made through a totaly illogical thought, an eureka, an intuition. After long work, but nonetheway, the final strike has ALWAYS been for all major discoveries, the intuition. An intuitive thougth that nothing in the math prepared for, nor pointed at. But it was there, and once the intuition had told the guy that, then you cant se nothing but "that" througth all the math and all the work that was done up to then.. thats the beauty of intuition you see.. its magical, and so is life!
> 
> You said somethign genial! "for fear of beign stupid" hehehe  you see, humans ahve always feared to look stupid, thatsw hy they make war, to dont lok stupid, to dont lose face to retaliate having lost it, to regain their honor.. they wil go to such length, even monkey dont like lookign stupid.. we wont ask the right qwuestion ot muma nd dad nor at school for fear of lookign stupid,. Only at 3-4 when we still arent aware of that concept, kids ask and ask and ask all sort of things, then it stop abruptly whne they turn 5-7 why? cause then they knwo about " for fear of looking stupid" they got their first meeting with it and the laughter of THE OTHERS !
> Look stupid and dont care. Fear of looking stupid is not logical at all..  its a subjectiv notion..  and its another fear..
> 
> Trust your emotions! follow their lead. To dont trust your emotions is the same as not trusting yourself and denying yourself what you have as the most rich and beautifull part in you! You are rejecting from you what is alive and what makes you a human being! And why should you do that? who told you to do that and why? thats not logical at all.
> 
> Define lofgic define being human.
> define being you.
> Dont cut yourself form being you out of a far fetched idea of what you is supposed to be and feel .. be you.
> The hardest thing to reach in life: being yourself fully and not just potentialy. Unleash the forces who are there latently sleeping in you, by being you totaly.   *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese. Very traditional.
> 
> *yes, i understand better now. Japan has a long tradition in forcing kids to cut off from their feelings and concentrate on being the best.. the very very best, and of striving more than living..
> That explain. Well, time for you to cut off with the bad traditions and rekindle with the good ones..Its true that japan have no traditions at all as for how to court a lady.. But you will work it out, thats not a problem now that you know what the real problem is  *
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know any latin American or Argentina guys.
> 
> *Doesnt matter, they will have taken the girl from you anyway, :lol:
> Its cool that you are japaneese.
> I know why you got a skin problem, thats cause you dont have sex.
> Its hormonal as well. As soon as you will have a normal or very active sex life, that problem will be history.
> 
> So, what are you waiting for, hmm?..
> 
> 
> I sincerely hope that all what i told you is helpfull to you, and that it contain all the solutions that you need right now.
> 
> Sayonara, my friend. *


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

So last night, my brunch date texted me and thanked me for brunch and said she had fun. She also liked the little gag gift I got her. So I texted her tonight (monday) and asked if she would like to go out for a late night ice cream run on Wednesday. So far no response, and it's been about 3 hours ...


----------



## Ashley

øøø scuse me, but an ice cream? you aint teenage are you?

Since when people go out to eat an ice cream? Isnt it a bit thin?
I mean if what you want is to have a love affair and real relationship what are you waiting to take her to the skating place or to see a movie or a concert or take her to a restaurant, a real one, for a very romantic dinner so that there will be absolutly no doubt about what you really want.
Maybe she got her feelings and expectations squeezed and most certainly she waits for you to phone her, and not text her, about it and might have been waiting last night for your answer.. but you waited for the day after to contact her.. wrong!
That kind you say face to face, hey, would you like to have an ice cream wendesday.. ehm i dont know if its the trend in the city your on.. but an ice cream, i dont do that since i was 15.. LOL :lol: could be fun! 

If she doesnt come i am on, its long ago i had an ice cream in California in late october


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## cheewagacheewaga

I trusted my gut and feelings and I felt like eating ice cream so I decided to see if she wants to come along. I did not know that it would be teenager-like. I am 28-years old and she is 26-years old.

She still hasn't gotten back to me so perhaps you are right about the ice cream outing. Did I blow it??

Update: So she finally texted me back and said that she had other plans (no surprise!). She didn't really suggest any other day so I'm going to assume the ice cream is a no-go. I just have this gut feeling that she isn't interested in me as a partner, only as a friend. And since you have been telling me to trust my gut, that is what I will go with. So basically I'm back in a circle.


----------



## Ashley

When you use your intuition you cant just do it like that specialy when you have been discarding it for the most of your life. It get tired of shouting at you and closed in and remain silence.

Listening to your intuition is an art and a science.

First of all you have to discard all white noise, like things you assume, and things you expect, and things you are used to, and FEARS!! They make a lot of noise in your head and disconnect you totaly from your heart. When ever something occur your heart know the answer, the question is to be able to can connect to it and to be able to listen the answer..and thats the tricky thing.. specialy if things are emotional or stressing.. cause then there will be a lot of white noise!
Too many radio waves being on at once!

I didnt knew you were so young cause you sounded stiff like one over the 40.. 

ok your 28 and she is 26, so ice cream aint bad, but it depend what city you are in and what status she had, what class of the society she is form.
Try art museum or disco instead. And this time take her by the wrist!

Also, go to the direct mode.
Meet her, talk to her tell her directly that you are interested in her in a romantic way and ask her if she is too.

we are not in middleage and we are not in "nobody talk about it its taboo" kind of world.

So drop the fears and drop the "slightly but not all" smoke signs, and jump to the direct approach.

You are young, her too, so give it a try.

Did you complimented on her hairs and her dress and eyes, when you had dinner with her?
if you keep the communciation too much as a meeting at work it aint going to work for her. "what a borring guy.." 

Cut loose.

When she say she got other plans ask "Can i join? " and laugh and do it in voice, and not texting! 
you can also ask her "is it because of last time? did i say something wrong?" So she know you are concerned and will give you a clear signal of it beign a go or not.
and why do you text he its monday didnt you see her at work today?

I know a guy who is like that and is sooooo borring, but beleive he is sexy and interesting as hell!  :lol:
and he jump from meeting mode to "reading-loud-the-news-paper-" mode, to talking sexy/porn just like that. Not exactly a winner.
He talk about things like he was writing an article in a news paper about it. Meaning he could say it to anybody, its totaly unpersonal, and very weird.  like he go to a concert, i ask him how it was, and he go describing me how he bike there and who was sitting at what café in what pants in what color, and who was smoking what, what cigar and all, and who was wearing sunglasses and what songs were sungen and the concert, hotdog and OLA! like some jounalist will write an article about it in a sunday newspaper where they got lots of place to fill and need someone to fill the blancks..  at the begining it was funny, I thought he was jokking, but fast i thougth "who the heck is this guy? cant he talk normal? why does he have to hide and pretend being someone else?" :scratchhead:

Thats why i tell you say it as it is specially when she is that young. tell her you are scared it wont work and to do something wrong and that you will like so much to can have a meeting with her again and that you have problems at expressing your feelings for fear of rejection. Why not? you told us here so why not to her who knows you better?

It will make you looks very vulnerable and will make you very attractive to her... 

It will be the first time you open the bag of candies and crimes, in your life, and you migth be surprised by the result.. it could be a catch, something she will certainly notice as special about you and will appreciate the REAL sharing. 
you want a deep and serious relationship? Be deep and serious yourself. Not superficial and casual. Be as the thing you strive after.
From now on this is your new look: be yourself and dont hide anything. 

Oh and for her saying no on wendesday, maybe its her washing day or she got her red.. did you thought of that?


----------



## Honey

It isn't the ice cream , dude. People are way to picky about who they date. Sad they do this, but they have to live and learn the hard way, that all the guys that they thought was all that..really wasn't to start with.


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## Ashley

:scratchhead:  :rofl:


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## draconis

Ashley said:


> øøø scuse me, but an ice cream? you aint teenage are you?


Depending on the peson Ice Cream is a good fun time. Many places have landmark Icecream stores too. The new cold slab places are nice.

draconis


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## Ashley

Oh so thats a usual place and things to do for a date? even if you are over the 20?  :smthumbup:

It sounds cool, but i thought that you will first do that kind of things when the 2 are really together as bf and gf, not in the first phase.. Also i thougth a good thing to suggest doing that will be while talking together face to face and saying " oh what do you say about going out for an ice cream on wendesday? I know a place..." 

Maybe thats cause i am older,  and i am not used to that kind of ice cream dating..  LOL

i love ice creams so i wont have said no, but thats me..  :lol:


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## draconis

I wouldn't make an entire date out of it, but we have a local place with great icecream where I live. I don't think there was a single girl I dated since living in my city I didn't bring there early on. As long as it was summer that is.

draconis


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## cheewagacheewaga

(Ashley: I don't work with this girl anymore.)

I feel a little better having slept through all of this. She basically told me that her sister was coming over and that she had plans that day. Her sister lives pretty close by. 

I live in the Bay Area near San Francisco so there are a lot of things to do around here. The ice cream place is more like a cute little 50's diner with amazing ice cream and sundaes. I thought it would be a cute little place. 

I should ask her out on a real date to a nice place, but I'm just scared of getting rejected, or that she is unintentionally giving me the wrong message that she is interested. 

Plus there is one other variable which I never mentioned. She once in awhile mentions this guy named "Bob". I'm not sure if that's her boyfriend or friend. I wanted to ask her who this guy was on the brunch date, but I felt like it would be too nosy. For example, when she took me out for my birthday, she was concerned about me driving home a little tipsy. So, she said, "Me and Bob can drive you home...". She has a male roommate, but his name isn't Bob. So who's Bob???? With my luck, it's probably her boyfriend. This has happened to me before where a girl fails to tell me she has a boyfriend until much later, yet they still let me pay for lunch/dinner. I sometimes feel cheated by that, but I guess it's fair game when I don't ask ...


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## draconis

1a) you ask her out and she says no -- No date, no love.

1b) You ask her for a date she says yes -- Date, maybe love.

2) You don't ask her -- No date, no love.

The way I see it you have nothing to lose.

draconis


----------



## Ashley

cheewagacheewaga said:


> (Ashley: I don't work with this girl anymore.)
> 
> I feel a little better having slept through all of this. She basically told me that her sister was coming over and that she had plans that day. Her sister lives pretty close by.
> 
> I live in the Bay Area near San Francisco so there are a lot of things to do around here. The ice cream place is more like a cute little 50's diner with amazing ice cream and sundaes. I thought it would be a cute little place.
> 
> I should ask her out on a real date to a nice place, but I'm just scared of getting rejected, or that she is unintentionally giving me the wrong message that she is interested.
> 
> Plus there is one other variable which I never mentioned. She once in awhile mentions this guy named "Bob". I'm not sure if that's her boyfriend or friend. I wanted to ask her who this guy was on the brunch date, but I felt like it would be too nosy. For example, when she took me out for my birthday, she was concerned about me driving home a little tipsy. So, she said, "Me and Bob can drive you home...". She has a male roommate, but his name isn't Bob. So who's Bob???? With my luck, it's probably her boyfriend. This has happened to me before where a girl fails to tell me she has a boyfriend until much later, yet they still let me pay for lunch/dinner. I sometimes feel cheated by that, but I guess it's fair game when I don't ask ...


Text her and ask. Write you understand if its to privy "but you mentionmed a Bob many time and i would like to hear if he is your bf?"
that way you will know and.. side bonus.. she will know that you are interested in her that way, without you having to say it.. :smthumbup: so go for it.. h"é btw, whos that bob you tlak about so often? is it your bf?" (could be her brother you never know) but ask her directly Learn to be more direct.

An ice cream is fine, we just go for coffee or a glass of wine here.. but if its usual then its al fine  and honnestly, i found it more funny.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

draconis said:


> 1a) you ask her out and she says no -- No date, no love.
> 
> 1b) You ask her for a date she says yes -- Date, maybe love.
> 
> 2) You don't ask her -- No date, no love.
> 
> The way I see it you have nothing to lose.
> 
> draconis


Good points, but here's my take on it, and it's all out of defense mode:

1a) you ask her out and she says no = no date, no love, my ego is hurt, and I lose a contact
1b) you ask her for a date she says yes = victory
2) you don't ask her = no date, no love, ego is protected, and nobody gets "hurt". This is a very neutral option. 
-----
Ashley: Yes, I am very curious to see who this Bob guy is. I will wait for the right time to ask her. I don't want to text her out of thin air. She is hosting an election day party on Nov. 4th and she invited me. Maybe I will ask her then, or maybe I will get to meet this Bob guy!


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## GAsoccerman

the only thing you ahve to fear is fear itself.... Sometimes dude you just have to jump in the pool....sink or swim.

there is no sure thing when it comes to love.


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## draconis

Just like the gym, no pain no gain. So what if 50 girls turn you down and 49 just are not the right one as long as you find that one that is a good fit.

draconis


----------



## Ashley

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Good points, but here's my take on it, and it's all out of defense mode:
> 
> 1a) you ask her out and she says no = no date, no love, my ego is hurt, and I lose a contact
> 1b) you ask her for a date she says yes = victory
> 2) you don't ask her = no date, no love, ego is protected, and nobody gets "hurt". This is a very neutral option.
> -----
> Ashley: Yes, I am very curious to see who this Bob guy is. I will wait for the right time to ask her. I don't want to text her out of thin air. She is hosting an election day party on Nov. 4th and she invited me. Maybe I will ask her then, or maybe I will get to meet this Bob guy!


:smthumbup: I am very glad for you cheewaga! 
its not that many days and it will give you time to digest the last meeting and to prepare for that one.. and there will be more people there, so its kind of easier to mingle. If Bob is her date then you will know for sure and who knows? you might meet your soulmate at that party! LOL
But do ask her, if not, ask this Bob if you are presented to him. Just say, "So, you and XXX are together?".. and you will know. Maybe he will laugh and say "No, we are just friends" or, "its my sister".. but unless you see the 2 actualy kissing french kiss, dont assume anything.
I am sure and certain that this is a winner..
You are coming closer, and her inviting you there is probably calculated with her gfss. you know girls..  she think its you who only want it on friend level but isnt sure, you ask for ice cream, but she had soemehting to attend to that day, so their friends said to her, "look, lets make an election party and invite the guy, that way if he is only in for friendship it will be ok and if he want more you will have the night to found out and it will be at your place" ..  Already this, that she directly invite you at her place, to defross you..:lol: is probbaly her gf ideas too. "How could we get the guy less stiff?" :scratchhead:
 
She is taking the initiativ, but the next move is yours.. the ball is on your camp chewaga.. 
Also remeember, its more hurtfull to wait in the unknown than actualy doing it and knowing. Take it as exciting instead of frightening.
She is a human being like you you know.. 
She dont want to get hurt either.
Do not hesitate to take her by the wrist whenever you will feel like doing it. Even if there is other people around. 
You will know when, simply when you feel like it.
And please, dont blow that one by keeping you and your feelings behind bars and thinking too much about your next move: RELAXX!.. 
You've been doing time for long enough now.. 

Rewind your youth and acting on the spur of the moment.. you will see, thats really fun!


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## cheewagacheewaga

Ashley: it is that type of thinking that gets my hopes up, and then quickly crushes it. Yes, it SOUNDS like a great plan that this girl and her friend thought up, but I highly doubt that that is the case. It just sounds like a party and they need bodies there to make it alive. That's what my gut tells me.

BUT, I did text her today with a little flirty message saying, "hey good looking, what's cooking? so what's going on with the party on Tuesday?" She texted back and said she was making cookies and that she's still trying to work out the logistics for the party. That is all.


----------



## Honey

Ashley- that wasn't funny, it's the truth. Haven't you ever thought someone was all that and a bag of chips, and come to find out, he wasn't? More like a pile of


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## Honey

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Ashley: it is that type of thinking that gets my hopes up, and then quickly crushes it. Yes, it SOUNDS like a great plan that this girl and her friend thought up, but I highly doubt that that is the case. It just sounds like a party and they need bodies there to make it alive. That's what my gut tells me.
> 
> BUT, I did text her today with a little flirty message saying, "hey good looking, what's cooking? so what's going on with the party on Tuesday?" She texted back and said she was making cookies and that she's still trying to work out the logistics for the party. That is all.


Well, she did text you back, and even if she didn't flirt back, she got the message, if you know what I mean.


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## Honey

Instead of goodlooking..use beautiful, because all girls are beautiful in their own way. 

A woman always wants to feel beautiful, and more so, in a man's eyes.


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## Ashley

Honey said:


> Ashley- that wasn't funny, it's the truth. Haven't you ever thought someone was all that and a bag of chips, and come to find out, he wasn't? More like a pile of


I didnt get that honey, what are we talking about here? :scratchhead:


----------



## Ashley

yeah honey thats also what i was thinking.. hse didnt knew what to say back, and cheewa if she was texting you " what your cooking , huh?!" what would you anser back? would oyu know what to say+
she didnt either so she said i ma baking cookies, LOLOL!  :rofl: well thats soemthing unless she actually didnt get what you ment and didnt knew oyu were flirting her.. in that case you just found a perl..
but wait til her firnd tell her what it actualy mean and she get all  on the face, and feel stupid..  see? aint only you havinf that problem.. it goes both ways too..


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## cheewagacheewaga

Later that day, she did drop off the cookies at my old work for me and the other girl I have been mentioning in my original story. I ate the cookies and texted her thanking her for the cookies and telling her that it was delicious! Now, I didn't think about it, but what I if ended up implying that I wanted something to eat, so she baked cookies? Or was it coincidental that she was already baking cookies?

*"What's cooking, good looking?"*
I was just trying to be flirty, NOT by literally asking her what she was cooking or making.
Anyhow, I have this cute line ready to go at the party. I'll thank her again for the cookies and I'll ask her seriously if her dad was ever a baker. She'll obviously then say 'no' or say 'yes'. Either way, my response to that would be, "because you have a nice set of *buns*!" :rofl:


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## Ashley

My dot in it will be, she made them specialy for you, and feel embarassed after texting, and then made them, and to show she actualy did, she actualy came to deliver them to you and giving some to her gf, was only an excuse so that it wasnt too obvious.. also cause of the connotation.. your wife bake you your cookies.. so that one is a real good one. 
She got big plans with you, not just flirty ones..
I found it even more incredible as i have never heard about it in my life before.
Specialy when knowing you so little.
You want to treat her well.
Come with a present when you come to that party. Something nice, and bring red roses too.
Oh, and if she had a bf call Bob, she will never have bake nor bring cookies for you! Unless she was tired of him and was more interested in you than in him.. so you are reassured on that one as well.
:smthumbup:
You are incredibly lucky, do you know that?
She sounds like being a very good person, a very kind, open , funny, and giving person. Warn good on her, and be very kind to her, she need someone who is good and kind too.

You can offer her a parfume or a jewelry.
She deserve the best.
not your fears.. 
Give your fears of rejection a good kick in the as.s and climb the mountain rigth away. 
She is asking you with open arms, what else are you waiting for?
For her to beg on her knees? :scratchhead:

We are awaiting all excited for the next chapter.. you will await and remind election day on the 4rth of november for something entirely different than founding out whom is going to get elected! LOL


----------



## swedish

cheewagacheewaga said:


> *"What's cooking, good looking?"*
> I was just trying to be flirty, NOT by literally asking her what she was cooking or making.
> Anyhow, I have this cute line ready to go at the party. I'll thank her again for the cookies and I'll ask her seriously if her dad was ever a baker. She'll obviously then say 'no' or say 'yes'. Either way, my response to that would be, "because you have a nice set of *buns*!" :rofl:


I got it and thought it was a good 'line' because it wasn't overly forward but it will help you read her signals better each time you get a little more personal. 

Just my opinion...but I wouldn't overplay the cooking jokes...you can go from flirty jokes (what's cookin good lookin) to sweet gestures and keep her interest (what will he do next...what's he thinking?)

Bringing you cookies was sweet....They have some inexpensive candles (most women love scented candles) that smell like cookies...maybe bring one to her at the party...'I couldn't possibly bake cookies like yours, but with just one match, your place will smell like I did '


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

Ashley: And I thought I over think things! I'm just treating the cookies as coincidence that she happened to have already baked them. And, this party will just be an election party to celebrate, or cry, depending on who wins. I doubt it's an elaborate plan as you speak of.

Swedish: The girl texted me this afternoon and asked me out to brunch so that we can take our mutual friend out for her birthday on election day. She asked me if 9:30AM was too late, and I replied, "For you, it's never too late! 9:30AM is fine!" She sent me a text just laughing and saying "yay!!" This girl is always happy and excited so it's hard to read her. She's always in a good mood.

I will update y'all on Wednesday, the day after the election.


----------



## swedish

I look forward to the update...I hope you find out who 'Bob' is...I'm curious now.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

I am sitting here really hurt and depressed. I went to the party and sure enough, Bob was pretty much her boyfriend. The fact that she was sitting on his lap and he was kissing her on the neck and rubbing her arm says it all. I KNEW IT!! This is the same crap that always happens to me. I got really hurt and snuck out of the party, even though I was only there for like 10 minutes. She called me a few minutes afterwards, but I didn't pick up. She didn't leave me a voicemail. WHY!?!?!?!? I am so pissed off and depressed because this is like failure #50 for me. Her boyfriend is this bad boy type guy. Maybe he's not really a bad boy, but he's definitely more aggressive than me and definitely more masculine. When the hell am I ever going to "get it"???? There seriously must be something wrong with me and I'm sick and tired of it. It's like a curse that I will never be able to experience a relationship. I'm 28 and haven't had a girlfriend since high school, let alone a date! It's so pathetic... I'm pathetic. I'm a nice guy - honest! I have a job, I have good morals, no criminal record, am still a virgin, no tattoos (not that this is bad), I work hard, and I like using my brain like playing chess, golfing, programming, and playing classical music. And I love kids and animals!!! I'm really someone that you can bring home to your parents. In fact, I get along with parents. My ONLY friends are older folks who have children my age. I just don't get it ... 

She did text me about 1-hour after I disappeared. She texted me and asked me where I went. She then texted me 3 more times 30-minutes later, worried about me, so I finally had to text her back and tell her that I wasn't feeling well and that we'll talk later.


----------



## draconis

You were at a party and left?

Why, maybe she could or was going to set you up with somebody?

Maybe you could have found somebody?

I have to say it is your defeatist attitude that will keep you single. You bring this on yourself. You have no resolve, no back bone, no composure.

draconis


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

draconis said:


> You were at a party and left?


If I can't enjoy the party, then why stay?



draconis said:


> Why, maybe she could or was going to set you up with somebody?
> 
> Maybe you could have found somebody?


At this point, I don't want anything to do with her since I'm just hurt by this whole thing. I wouldn't even be in the mood if she did try to hook me up with one of her friends. Too much association with her. I'm better off getting over it and starting from scratch. 



draconis said:


> I have to say it is your defeatist attitude that will keep you single. You bring this on yourself. You have no resolve, no back bone, no composure.
> 
> draconis


I don't know what to say about this. So I brought it upon myself by accidentally picking on a woman who happened to have a boyfriend already whom I thought was interested in me? I must be accidentally doing this to myself because it happens all the time. How am I going to resolve this? Being tough and strong about this isn't going to make her change her mind about anything. What is there to stand up to? It's pretty much a situation of, "She's taken, now move along!"


----------



## draconis

Who cares about her, you were at a party. You had an option there.

In a long term relationship only you can make yourself happy. This situation provides light into a dark area. You keep shoving your happiness on what others do. 

The best time I had at getting women was went I had a ton of female friends. So you put her in a friend list and keep her there. 

draconis


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## swedish

If it were me I'd evaluate this instance and beef up my gameplan...specifically, next time you're interested in someone and they randomly mention 'Bob' ask right then, 'Who's Bob?' and if the response is 'my boyfriend' you say 'are you exclusively dating bob?' and if the response is 'yes' then say 'that's too bad'...then MOVE ON to the next one...don't give up on yourself...your list of good qualities are great qualities...the more you put yourself out there and try the better chances you have....and I know what you're thinking...the more you will have to deal with rejection....BUT, if you step up your gameplan to find out if someone is attached up front, it will get easier to walk away (and still talk to them) if you don't get to invested.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

draconis said:


> Who cares about her, you were at a party. You had an option there.
> 
> In a long term relationship only you can make yourself happy. This situation provides light into a dark area. You keep shoving your happiness on what others do.
> 
> The best time I had at getting women was went I had a ton of female friends. So you put her in a friend list and keep her there.
> 
> draconis


No matter how hard I would have tried, there's no way I would have had fun at the party. I just invested too much into this one girl and that was a dumb move for me. No matter how happy you try to make yourself, you are always going to depend on something and someone to make you happy. The brain doesn't entertain itself!




swedish said:


> If it were me I'd evaluate this instance and beef up my gameplan...specifically, next time you're interested in someone and they randomly mention 'Bob' ask right then, 'Who's Bob?' and if the response is 'my boyfriend' you say 'are you exclusively dating bob?' and if the response is 'yes' then say 'that's too bad'...then MOVE ON to the next one...don't give up on yourself...your list of good qualities are great qualities...the more you put yourself out there and try the better chances you have....and I know what you're thinking...the more you will have to deal with rejection....BUT, if you step up your gameplan to find out if someone is attached up front, it will get easier to walk away (and still talk to them) if you don't get to invested.


Good point, Swedish. If I had known sooner, my intentions would have been different. I invested too much time and thoughts into her to want to believe that it would pay off. As mentioned, I've been in these types of situations so many times. I always end up just throwing away the friendship with the girl and never contacting them again. I just can't be friends with a woman once I've gone through all this disappointment and letdown. It's not her fault or anything, but just something I cannot deal with.


----------



## draconis

> No matter how happy you try to make yourself, you are always going to depend on something and someone to make you happy. The brain doesn't entertain itself!


If you believe that then you will spend your life co-dependent.

draconis


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## cheewagacheewaga

Well, yes, that's the point of relationship and getting married so that I can partner up with someone. Together, we'll have a common goal and depend on each other for support, finances, physical care, and emotional bonding. So yes, that is what I want. If I wanted to be alone then I wouldn't even be here talking about this.

I can take care of myself in terms of basic functionality. I have a job and I am physically healthy. I'm ready to share my time, energy, and resources with someone.


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## draconis

There is a difference in co-dependence and a partner.

draconis


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## GAsoccerman

I'm with Drac, you really are insecure and take yourself out of the game.

Half the fun is the pursuit.

You analyze way to much, just have fun.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

GAsoccerman said:


> I'm with Drac, you really are insecure and take yourself out of the game.


Aren't we all a little insecure in some way or another?



> Half the fun is the pursuit.


I had the 1st half going, until I found out she was taken. 



> You analyze way to much, just have fun.


Still working on it. Having a hard time letting go and still taking life too seriously.  The world is a cruel place where nobody gives you a second chance, and only the top dog survives!


So after the bad evening with me finding out this girl's boyfriend, I emailed an old co-worker who I was sort of interested in and asked her out to a dinner and movie this Friday. She accepted. I just hope that this will help cheer me up, but I kind of feel bad because I'm only asking this old co-worker out so that I can keep my mind busy on a lonely Friday night. I *think* this old co-worker had mentioned awhile back that she has a boyfriend, but I'm not sure. Either way, I just want to get out on a Friday night and not feel like a loser.


----------



## swedish

Well I hope 'sort of interested in' means you will be in a relaxed, no pressure state of mind on Friday. And I hope one of your first questions for her is 'So, how's the dating life going for you?" If you can find out early on and know whatever her answer you won't bring yourself to full disappointment...enjoy the dinner/movie night out...that's why you are going on this one...not to find a partner...that will most likely happen when you least expect it


----------



## stumped

Did you ever talk to this girl again and find out for certain that "BOB" was her BF??


----------



## Honey

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Later that day, she did drop off the cookies at my old work for me and the other girl I have been mentioning in my original story. I ate the cookies and texted her thanking her for the cookies and telling her that it was delicious! Now, I didn't think about it, but what I if ended up implying that I wanted something to eat, so she baked cookies? Or was it coincidental that she was already baking cookies?
> 
> *"What's cooking, good looking?"*
> I was just trying to be flirty, NOT by literally asking her what she was cooking or making.
> Anyhow, I have this cute line ready to go at the party. I'll thank her again for the cookies and I'll ask her seriously if her dad was ever a baker. She'll obviously then say 'no' or say 'yes'. Either way, my response to that would be, "because you have a nice set of *buns*!" :rofl:


Nice rack ..bakers rack. Yeah..yeah..that's what I meant. :rofl:


----------



## Ashley

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Aren't we all a little insecure in some way or another?
> 
> 
> I had the 1st half going, until I found out she was taken.
> 
> 
> Still working on it. Having a hard time letting go and still taking life too seriously.  The world is a cruel place where nobody gives you a second chance, and only the top dog survives!
> 
> 
> So after the bad evening with me finding out this girl's boyfriend, I emailed an old co-worker who I was sort of interested in and asked her out to a dinner and movie this Friday. She accepted. I just hope that this will help cheer me up, but I kind of feel bad because I'm only asking this old co-worker out so that I can keep my mind busy on a lonely Friday night. I *think* this old co-worker had mentioned awhile back that she has a boyfriend, but I'm not sure. Either way, I just want to get out on a Friday night and not feel like a loser.


for me to see you dotn ereally care about anybody. you jsut hunt.
one goes you try the other one.
you dont even try in fact oyu imagine you did.
there is peopel who learn the word love in the wolrd and they are ready to wait months or year that the girl they love is free to can ask them out. is it what you call the dogs?
no, they are just true to their feelings you are just made of pride.
and seeing that other guy hurted oyur pride, not oyur love feeling nor oyur heart only yoru pride so oyudont care abotu her at all anymore cause oyu are so proud.

i had told you before what to do if bob was there and was her bf and i told you to be sure and to ask her at the party or bob.. but you didnt do so.
and you could at naytiem had taken your cellphone and ask her if bob was her bf before the party, not texting but calling which you never did...
why? :scratchhead:


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

swedish said:


> Well I hope 'sort of interested in' means you will be in a relaxed, no pressure state of mind on Friday. And I hope one of your first questions for her is 'So, how's the dating life going for you?" If you can find out early on and know whatever her answer you won't bring yourself to full disappointment...enjoy the dinner/movie night out...that's why you are going on this one...not to find a partner...that will most likely happen when you least expect it


That's a good line, "so how's your dating life?". It's not too direct, but will let me know if she's available or not. Maybe I just need to relax a little bit. I'll use this line and see what happens. 



stumped said:


> Did you ever talk to this girl again and find out for certain that "BOB" was her BF??


No, I did not directly ask her who Bob is. And looking back, I'm still not 100% sure that they really are together, or if they are a new couple, or what. Maybe it's not uncommon for white women to sit on a man's lap as just friends while the man rubs her arm.



Ashley said:


> for me to see you dotn ereally care about anybody. you jsut hunt.
> one goes you try the other one.
> you dont even try in fact oyu imagine you did.
> there is peopel who learn the word love in the wolrd and they are ready to wait months or year that the girl they love is free to can ask them out. is it what you call the dogs?
> no, they are just true to their feelings you are just made of pride.
> and seeing that other guy hurted oyur pride, not oyur love feeling nor oyur heart only yoru pride so oyudont care abotu her at all anymore cause oyu are so proud.
> 
> i had told you before what to do if bob was there and was her bf and i told you to be sure and to ask her at the party or bob.. but you didnt do so.
> and you could at naytiem had taken your cellphone and ask her if bob was her bf before the party, not texting but calling which you never did...
> why? :scratchhead:


I know, I know. I failed you on this one, Ashley. I did not follow through with your game plan, but I was just so hurt and just wanted to get out of there. Maybe things will change and she will be single again (or maybe she still is?) and I might have another shot. But, it would be silly for me to wait it out just for that reason. I need to continue on my journey with or without her, but hopefully with her in some way (read below).



Update to everyone: She texted me this morning at 7:30AM and asked me if I was okay. I thought that was really sweet of her so I texted her back and apologized for walking out on the party. I just said that I have this insecurity problem, which I didn't want to talk about right now. She said she understood and said she just wanted to make sure I was okay. She's such a sweet gal, and I can see why she is already taken (?). I changed my mind and decided that I can't just fade away from her because she seems like a really caring person. Usually the other women that I have disappeared from usually never follow-up or anything. So the fact that she wonders what is wrong shows that she cares to a certain extent, whether it be a friendship or something more. That made me feel a little better.

And I just want to emphasize that even though I whine about this stuff, it's not like I'm going to give up and lock myself in a room. I admit I'm not persistent enough when it comes to this, but I will at least keep on trekking on.


----------



## stumped

Ok so hang on a second................you WALKED out of a party that a woman you are interested in INVITED you to because you ASSUMED that Bob was her Boyfriend????

And even though she sent you text messages as soon as she noticed you were gone and has even sent you text messages after that checking on you you still have yet to be honest with her about why you left and/or ask her if Bob is her BF or not???

You made an assumption that may or may not have been correct. Could Bob have been her BF...sure. Could Bob be one of her best friends and they are a little more touchy feely than your culture....sure. Could it be someone she is just dating and not serious with...sure. But do you know...???? NOPE YOU DONT


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

stumped said:


> Ok so hang on a second................you WALKED out of a party that a woman you are interested in INVITED you to because you ASSUMED that Bob was her Boyfriend????
> 
> And even though she sent you text messages as soon as she noticed you were gone and has even sent you text messages after that checking on you you still have yet to be honest with her about why you left and/or ask her if Bob is her BF or not???
> 
> You made an assumption that may or may not have been correct. Could Bob have been her BF...sure. Could Bob be one of her best friends and they are a little more touchy feely than your culture....sure. Could it be someone she is just dating and not serious with...sure. But do you know...???? NOPE YOU DONT


Yeah, I know. I jumped the gun and made some assumptions. Now my next assumption is "damn, I blew it!" Probably walking out of her party and telling her about my vague insecurity turned her off. Women don't like weak men, and now she sees that in me. Honesty is a good thing, but not when it displays my vulnerabilities. I don't think there's anything I can really do anymore about this situation. I pretty much blew it. 

Anyway, I have my other date with this old co-worker in about an hour. I'm not really feeling excited about it. I still keep thinking about the first girl who invited me to her party.


----------



## draconis

Make this one count.

draconis


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

draconis said:


> Make this one count.
> 
> draconis


Okay, semi-good news! I am back from my date with "M" and it's about 2AM right now. We had a nice dinner (she paid) and went to go watch that funny new movie, Zack and Mari make a porno (I paid). Afterward, I suggested we go to a bar and grab a drink (I paid). We talked for a good 2-hours!

I asked her how her dating life was going and she is SINGLE! :smthumbup: Also, I moved in closer to her personal space at the bar so that I could hear her better and she did not move away. I purposely touched her thighs with my hand now and then when we laughed and joke, and I purposely made my leg touch hers. It was loud at the bar so it called for me to move in closer. She did not back away and she did not seem uncomfortable.

Overall it was fun, enjoyable, and I did not feel any stress. I felt it was perfectly under my control, and I can definitely tell that she has some interest in me because she gets shy when I look directly at her eyes. I am going to text her tomorrow and tell her that I had a great time and would love to do it again. 

Now the bad news is that I still did think about, and still do want, the other girl, "C", who invited me to her election party and whether or not if she really is taken or not. For some reason I have this hesitation and embarrassment to ask "C" directly if she has a boyfriend or not. Yet strangely I had no problems finding out if "M" was dating anybody or not. What gives?!??


----------



## GAsoccerman

dude you didn't kiss her good night? she is probably wondering what is wrong with her that you did not at least try to kiss her goodnight.

Go for it dude...stop thinking and start doing!


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

GAsoccerman said:


> dude you didn't kiss her good night? she is probably wondering what is wrong with her that you did not at least try to kiss her goodnight.
> 
> Go for it dude...stop thinking and start doing!


I wanted to kiss her goodnight. I walked her back to her car after the bar @ around 1AM since it could be dangerous, but she kind of made a quick move to get to her car without even giving me a chance! BUT, I did text her the next day and asked her out to a nice restaurant and ice cream. She accepted! So I'm pretty sure she is interested. I put my money on it! :smthumbup:

I want to go for the move on this nice date Monday night. I have it planned out (I know, you don't want me thinking!). So after dinner, there is a nice pier right next door that walks out to the bay and has a beautiful view of San Francisco. I plan for us to walk out on the pier, talk a little, then I'll put my arm around her and move in closer slowly. Then when it feels right, I'll go in for the kiss! Should be exciting, and I don't have any doubts that I'll miss this one. 

Sadly, I am still thinking about the other girl, "C"! I am more obsessed with thinking about "C". I can't get her out of my mind and I really wonder if that was her boyfriend that I saw on Nov. 4th. Arghhh!!  That whole thing just negates this date with "M". I feel like it's not completely fair for "M" because I won't really be 100% mentally there with her.


----------



## swedish

To be honest, in my opinion you are in the initial phase of dating so you have nothing to feel guilty about with "M". In fact, your thoughts of "C" are probably making you more relaxed with "M" and that's a good thing. If you really want to know about "C"...just ask her the next time you talk. In the meantime, see where things go with "M"...the more you get to know her your feelings may shift from "C" to "M"...or you might meet "E" and think E = mc squared...ok my nerd is coming out...i will leave now.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

It's almost midnight and I am back from my date with "M"!

Everything went almost as I had planned. We did take a nice walk out to the pier with a nice view of San Francisco, but it was so cold that we were both freezing. So instead I put my arms around her and we walked back to the car. She never pushed me aside or felt uncomfortable so that was totally my green light. 

At the end of the date, I drove her home and wanted to kiss her, but she just seemed so nervous that she gave me a quick hug, and while she was pulling away, I gave her a quick kiss on the cheek. By that time, she was already going for the door handle to get out of my car! I'm sure she is nervous and something tells me she is not experienced in terms of dating. I don't have much experience either, but I can tell when someone is nervous and she was nervous! 

Overall I'm not sure how I'm feeling. There's some chemistry there, but she feels more like a friend than a romantic partner. I guess I'll just keep going with the flow.

Oh yes, and I still am thinking about "C"!  Maybe that's why I wasn't nervous or thinking too much about this date. I am going out with a mutual friend of "C" and I for brunch on Friday. I'm going to try to get some more detailed scoop on "C" to find out if she has a boyfriend or not, and what her status is.


----------



## swedish

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I am going out with a mutual friend of "C" and I for brunch on Friday. I'm going to try to get some more detailed scoop on "C" to find out if she has a boyfriend or not, and what her status is.


Good plan. This way, if she has a steady boyfriend, you can move on for now as far as dating "C" is concerned & if not she may clue "C" in that you are interested and then it will take you off the hook of directly putting yourself out there. If you are still feeling awkward about telling "C" you have insecurities, you can also mention the date with "M" to your friend...that you had a nice time, no major fireworks...it will let her know that you aren't sitting home pining away (if she tells "C"). Just a thought.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

swedish said:


> Good plan. This way, if she has a steady boyfriend, you can move on for now as far as dating "C" is concerned & if not she may clue "C" in that you are interested and then it will take you off the hook of directly putting yourself out there. If you are still feeling awkward about telling "C" you have insecurities, you can also mention the date with "M" to your friend...that you had a nice time, no major fireworks...it will let her know that you aren't sitting home pining away (if she tells "C"). Just a thought.


It's true that women talk amongst themselves, correct? So anything I say to this mutual friend will inevitably go to "C"?


----------



## swedish

Very likely...especially if it's about you showing interest in her...just don't say 'between you and I' or something that might indicate you are speaking to her in confidence (we do have morals you know!)


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

Good to know! I definitely do feel comfortable talking to this mutual friend so it would seem like an easier way to relay the message to "C" indirectly. Kind of a chicken way to do it, but at least the message goes through some channel. 

I have to say that dating "M" kind of puts my mind and pressure off of "C". I hate to say it, but it's like "M" is my fallback in case nothing works out with "C". That's why I feel kind of guilty using "M" as a cushion. But as you mentioned, I guess that is what dating is about??? I haven't dated since high school, which was about 10+ years ago. Now I wonder if this is why people are able to date multiple people so easily? I always felt that it was never fair to date multiple people, but now I find myself feeling like a hypocrite if I do decide to date other women while dating "M", and that's exactly the option I am proposing to myself!

Swedish: Just curious, but do you know of the Myers-Brigg personality test? I would venture to say you are an introvert?


----------



## swedish

Dating multiple people is fine until you agree to be exclusive...maybe I am old fashioned but I believe once the relationship becomes sexual, it should be discussed.

Yes, as far as those tests go, introvert all the way. Family and friends don't believe that because I'm very outgoing around people I know well.

Anyway, now I am curious what makes you think that?


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

swedish said:


> Dating multiple people is fine until you agree to be exclusive...maybe I am old fashioned but I believe once the relationship becomes sexual, it should be discussed.


So if we don't discuss exclusivity, and we hold off on sex, then it's fair game all the way in terms of exclusive dating? That's the traditional view? That sounds a little liberal to me, and I'm a liberal! hah! I did text "M" this afternoon and we've made plans to grab brunch this Sunday (I asked her out). I want to go slow so it gives me time to find out if "C", or anybody else, comes along that I may find interest in. Is going out once-a-week considered too fast?



swedish said:


> Yes, as far as those tests go, introvert all the way. Family and friends don't believe that because I'm very outgoing around people I know well.
> 
> Anyway, now I am curious what makes you think that?


I've been trying to learn more about myself. I knew I've always been "off" in some way or another and have always got along with other "off" people. A fellow co-worker told me about this Myers-Brigg test, which I took online. I ended up being an introvert, which I always suspected, but now I have a little more details. I turned out to be an "INTJ", which isn't the most sexiest. Other INTJ's are Ben Bernanke, Peter Jennings, Phil Donahue, Maria Shriver, Greg Gumble, Colin Powell, and the list goes on. Yikes! Not really that exciting, I must admit.  It's kind of like an eye opener for me, but that's just who I am, and now I can see how I am perceived from the outside. 

You just seem like an introvert in the sense of your nerdy E=mc^2 joke, and the way you break your thoughts and writing into body sections. Not to mention your spelling and grammar are correct (no offense to others on here!). Basically the way you communicate in writing is the way I also communicate in writing, so I see the similarities.


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## GAsoccerman

Dude, you worry way to much....

What is the most exciting thing you have done in your life?

have you ever done anything totally out of control?

Have you ever been kicked out of a bar/Nightclub?

Have you ever gone white water rafting down a class 5 river?

faith, man have faith in yourself and have some fun...Stop thinking and start doing.


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## cheewagacheewaga

... 20 questions! yes! LOL



GAsoccerman said:


> Dude, you worry way to much....
> 
> What is the most exciting thing you have done in your life?


Rode a rollercoaster


GAsoccerman said:


> have you ever done anything totally out of control?


Got drunk at a party pretty bad, but was a MAJOR flirt with the women. Alcohol helps. It really does. 


GAsoccerman said:


> Have you ever been kicked out of a bar/Nightclub?


I don't go to nightclubs.


GAsoccerman said:


> Have you ever gone white water rafting down a class 5 river?


Nope. I am risk averse, as you can tell.


GAsoccerman said:


> faith, man have faith in yourself and have some fun...Stop thinking and start doing.


I'm trying! But as you can read from earlier, it's part of my personality. Would Colin Powell blindly lead his men into battle without thinking? Would Ben Bernanke make a financial move without thinking about it? Well, that's me, too! 
(I need a real government job)


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## swedish

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I knew I've always been "off" in some way or another and have always got along with other "off" people.


If by "off" you mean extremely intelligent with a dry sense of humor, then I understand completely!
:lol:


----------



## stumped

The reason you are still wondering about "C" is because you have no closure cause you dont know what the deal is. 

Me I am a straight forward to the point person.....I would just ask "C" who Bob is. 

Dont be unfair to "M" though if she is just a stand in for "C" like she is second best.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

swedish said:


> If by "off" you mean extremely intelligent with a dry sense of humor, then I understand completely!
> :lol:


Sometimes I wish I were like the others. Then I wouldn't feel like such an outcast. People don't understand us, just like how GASoccerman says we think too much. It's in our nature. Our strength can be our weakness ...



stumped said:


> The reason you are still wondering about "C" is because you have no closure cause you dont know what the deal is.
> 
> Me I am a straight forward to the point person.....I would just ask "C" who Bob is.


I would also like to get some closure with "C". Either way, she's a good person to be friends with. And who knows, maybe things will change for the both of us. 


stumped said:


> Dont be unfair to "M" though if she is just a stand in for "C" like she is second best.


I still want to give "M" a shot and see how things go. I realize that we both are dorky and quirky, which I like. I admit that "M" isn't as hot as "C". I know, I know. It's shallow to even think or say that, but I can't help but compare them. 

update:
My Friday brunch with "C" and I's mutual friend bailed on me because she had an important meeting to go to (she's a professor at a University). So, I texted "C" and asked her directly if she wanted to grab brunch, but she had already planned to help a friend move, but she said next week would work. I'll find out who this Bob guy is! I must know!!!


----------



## draconis

What about M she seems to be perfect for you and you are going to blow it chasing C.

draconis


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

draconis said:


> What about M she seems to be perfect for you and you are going to blow it chasing C.
> 
> draconis


It's hard to say that "M" is perfect because we're still early dating, if you even want to call it dating. I'm not sure what constitutes dating anymore these days. I've known "M" for about 1-year because we used to work together. One thing that I find unbelievable is that "M" is so much more dorkier than me. She's into Star Trek, Star Wars, bad B-movies, and comic conventions. Definitely not my cup of tea, but I find her entertaining,and I like the fact that she accepts me for who I am. 

"C", to me, is perfect and is someone I am ideally looking for. I've known her for about 1-year. "C" has her Master's degree and is gearing up for medical school once she takes her MCAT's. She has traveled a lot and studied in different countries when she was younger. She's a smart gal (won college scholarships) with an extroverted happy personality who knows how to have fun! Definitely the best of both worlds!!! She's one of those girls you just cannot hate, and she brings a certain positive energy wherever she goes. She's got it all - the beauty, brains, and personality. 

I seriously wonder how couples end up together. Do couples end up with each other by lowering their standards, or just out of comfort? Has their been any case where a couple has gotten together because they both thought they were perfect 10's and had their "wish" come true?


----------



## draconis

I love my wife for who she is. My attraction to her was at a dance hall, before my MD when into the advanced stages. I was a great dancer and she was happy bopping as a wall flower. But her confidence was through the roof, and I loved that inner glow. She isn't the type of girl I would have picked out of a magazine as my ten, but she is very beautiful non the less and her inner glow made her an 11. But what made my mind was the first time she met my son and they hit it off well. My heart melted. She is everything I am not, and at times that is frustrating but at other times that means she completes me. I judge her only on the overall picture. 

The original attraction got me that first dance, that first night and plans for more. Her personality, the fact she accepted me for me was what sealed it.

I can honestly say I have never loved as deeply as her. Sometimes you have to let things go, and find out where they lead you.

draconis


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

Draconis, that is a good story to hear. I'm also looking for that woman where I have an initial attraction to her. That's what is supposed to motivate me to take it further, right? My worst fear is that I'll settle or get into a relationship out of comfort and insecurity. I don't really feel like I have that feeling of attraction to "M" as I do with "C". Maybe I'll get to know "M" better and it'll develop. There's really no rush since I don't have many options right now.


----------



## voivod

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Well, yes, that's the point of relationship and getting married so that I can partner up with someone. Together, we'll have a common goal and depend on each other for support, finances, physical care, and emotional bonding. So yes, that is what I want. If I wanted to be alone then I wouldn't even be here talking about this.
> 
> I can take care of myself in terms of basic functionality. I have a job and I am physically healthy. I'm ready to share my time, energy, and resources with someone.


you're grasping at interdependence. no one else can "make you" anything. i've read till my eyes have bled (well, not REALLY bled) about co-dependence and interdependence. your approach tend you toward co. i know what you're striving for, but the result will show you that it's not someone else that "makes you" happy...you'll be responsible for that in an interdependent relationship.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

In general, I'm just a hard person to please, even for myself! The only times I get happy are when I go beyond *my* expectations. For example, doing well at the golf course; hitting those hard passages on my violin; or solving some challenging programming codes at work. Those are the only times I get those highs in life, and unfortunately, seldomly happen. The bar just keeps getting higher and higher for myself. Not sure if that is a good thing or not. I'm not a loser, that much I know, but I don't really appreciate or acknowledge the things I have done. I keep quiet about it.

Going back to my "C" and "M" story, I am having brunch this morning with "M". Then I am having brunch again on Tuesday with the mutual friend of "C" to see if I can find out who this damn Bob guy is and their relationship.


----------



## voivod

so you're never satisfied where you are. nothing can REALLY please you. because if you high jump 8 feet, there's still 8'1" to acheive. i'm sorry man, you've got built-in failure, no matter what your endeavor. there's always gonna be one more step in your staircase.
here's the deal, a running back takes the ball on a handoff from the quarterback. he runs untouched to the endzone. that's a touchdown. he's reached the "goal." 65-thousand people are on their feet cheering. can't do better than that, he scored the freakin' touchdown!

set goals for yourself. quit making success so illusive.


----------



## cheewagacheewaga

I don't really have a built-in failure, just high expectations, and I like that about myself. I don't settle for less, and I want to push myself to be better at what I love and do! My sister and I are both high achievers. This is what separates us from the "average" folks. Our parents raised us well and to be the best we can be with our minds and skills. 

In terms of goals, I have them set: shoot under 110 in golf, continue nailing my Bach solo violin Partita in d-minor, and every year continue to get a 10% raise at my computer job. Heck, this year alone I achieved a 23% raise in my computer job. I have no doubt in my mind that I will be able to achieve my financial goals in my early 30's (I am 28). Achieving goals, to me, are not a measure of success, but something to be expected. And just for the record, I am not a white Caucasian person. I come from the Asian cultural background, and it's something many of you Americans will never understand. 

Going back to my "M" brunch date, everything sort of went well. We had brunch, took a nice walk, hung out at the park (held hands and I put my arms around her), watched a movie, and grabbed dinner. After dropping her off, I went in for the lip kiss, but she turned at the last minute and instead gave me a light kiss on the cheek. Come on! What was that all about?!?!? And just for the record, "M" is white. She's actually a Southern girl!!


----------



## voivod

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I don't really have a built-in failure, just high expectations, and I like that about myself. I don't settle for less, and I want to push myself to be better at what I love and do! My sister and I are both high achievers. This is what separates us from the "average" folks. Our parents raised us well and to be the best we can be with our minds and skills.


what separates you from "average" folks?!?!?

how about expectations in your love life that you, by your own previous definition, cannot hit? nothing that has happened so far has apparently been "good enough" for you. i pity the girl who doesn't live up to your expectations.



cheewagacheewaga said:


> In terms of goals, I have them set: shoot under 110 in golf, continue nailing my Bach solo violin Partita in d-minor, and every year continue to get a 10% raise at my computer job. Heck, this year alone I achieved a 23% raise in my computer job. I have no doubt in my mind that I will be able to achieve my financial goals in my early 30's (I am 28). Achieving goals, to me, are not a measure of success, but something to be expected. And just for the record, I am not a white Caucasian person. I come from the Asian cultural background, and it's something many of you Americans will never understand.


23% raise. sweet! how come you didn't hit 24%??? you never asked yourself that? truthfully.

and we americans may or may not understand expected performance. but our lack of performance never served us as a reason to end our efforts. or accept our failures. and history proves, it's workin' pretty well.

congrats on your latest dating success. please don't apply the same standards to your mates as you do to yourself. 

110 in golf??? come on, you can do better than that! speaking of golf...isao ioki didn't win every tournament he was entered in. did his parents forget to raise him to be the best he can be with his skills? because he was a highly skilled golfer.


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## cheewagacheewaga

voivod said:


> what separates you from "average" folks?!?!?


I'm not going to go into details about this, but I'm very fortunate that I am doing a lot better than the average person, and have been fortunate to have experienced opportunities in my life that many were not given. And I plan to use every opportunity and gift that I have to excel in this world.


voivod said:


> how about expectations in your love life that you, by your own previous definition, cannot hit? nothing that has happened so far has apparently been "good enough" for you. i pity the girl who doesn't live up to your expectations.


As with anything, practice and experience will help me measure what is possible. One thing about me is that I can adjust and adapt in any environment I am put in, just like what I have done in the US. I have very little, if any, dating experience. I understand that perhaps my expectations may be unreasonable, but already I have learned a lot with "M" and am feeling more comfortable with her.



voivod said:


> 23% raise. sweet! how come you didn't hit 24%??? you never asked yourself that? truthfully.


Because I have REALISTIC expectations and goals that I can achieve. I am not disconnected with realty. 10% a year is something that I feel I am worth a year. Only an idiot who is actually worth 10% will go into his boss's office and demand a 99% raise. 



voivod said:


> and we americans may or may not understand expected performance. but our lack of performance never served us as a reason to end our efforts. or accept our failures. and history proves, it's workin' pretty well.
> 
> congrats on your latest dating success. please don't apply the same standards to your mates as you do to yourself.
> 
> 110 in golf??? come on, you can do better than that! speaking of golf...isao ioki didn't win every tournament he was entered in. did his parents forget to raise him to be the best he can be with his skills? because he was a highly skilled golfer.


Nowhere did I mention that I would immediately give up, or that my parents would disown me, if my expectations were not met. What I'm saying is that I have expectations for *myself*, and that I am realistic about them, and I know what I need to do to get there. If I don't make it, then I learn from it, reflect, adapt, and adjust my goal or myself. It's something that I feel Americans don't do. I get the feeling that Americans just want it NOW. They want things quick and easy. Hard work, discipline, and patience are not a virtue anymore in this country. That's what I think makes me above the average Joe-sixpack.


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## stumped

All I have to say is WOW.....when I can think a little more rationally I will have to respond to what I just read.


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## cheewagacheewaga

Stumped, don't even bother responding to my response because I feel like I am having to constantly defend myself and justify my actions and thoughts in this forum. Not sure why you guys are giving me the heat. 

Aside from that, there's been a HUUUUGE update. I had brunch with a mutual friend of "C" and mine. Turns out this Bob guy is "C"'s boyfriend, but they have been on and off, and "C" is looking to date others. And Bob is a bartender. Bob is in his late 30's. Bob has been promising "C" that he would become a firefighter, but hasn't done anything to make better of himself. "C" and Bob constantly fight. In other words, Bob is a loser and "C" is losing interest. 

I immediately texted "C" and set up brunch with her to apologize for walking out on her party, and to make it up to her. We are going out this this Thursday and she accepted. I'm not sure what to tell "C". Apologize first, of course! But then to explain why I walked out. Be honest? Let her know I'm interested? White lie?

Regarding "M", we watched a movie last night at her place. We started heavily making out and I almost made it to 3rd base with her (getting her topless is 2nd base, right?)! It got really hot and heavy and I stopped our fun because I've never had sex before (laugh all you want!!) and don't know what to do. I ended up leaving her place at 2AM, and I only got 4 hours of sleep as I am writing this. 

What if "C" is interested in me, then what do I tell "M"? Things are getting crazy over here!!!!


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## voivod

cheewagacheewaga said:


> Stumped, don't even bother responding to my response because I feel like I am having to constantly defend myself and justify my actions and thoughts in this forum. Not sure why you guys are giving me the heat.


not heat, dawg, just trying to point out some flaws in your thinking toward this budding relationship. seeing it through someone elses eyes sometime will help with perspective. it's all good.


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## swedish

cheewagacheewaga said:


> It's something that I feel Americans don't do. I get the feeling that Americans just want it NOW. They want things quick and easy. Hard work, discipline, and patience are not a virtue anymore in this country. That's what I think makes me above the average Joe-sixpack.


If there is any heat, it will come from this stereotype of Americans...many of us who've made sacrifices and worked very hard over the years would probably find this offensive.


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## draconis

Sounds like M was into you and you are going to throw that away? Hell tell her you are a virgin and ask her to guide you.

draconis


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## swedish

my thoughts on "C" are: drop the leaving the party thing...you already told her it's because you have insecurities...she will either think it's because you saw her with bob or that you aren't comfortable in a room of people you don't know...either way if it comes up I'd just stick with 'i guess i was having a bad day.' and let it go...otherwise, you will probably open yourself up for some awkward conversation....you could still bring her a cookie scented candle  remind her that she bakes some yummy cookies...and remember, you are allowed to be as subtle as you need to ... don't set yourself up for a huge blow ... you don't have to announce you are interested... you can still use the 'how's the dating scene going for you?' or whatever to get the conversation going in that direction. 

With 'M', I personally thing it's good you stopped when you did because if you are still pursuing 'C' you might be best in taking things slowly with 'M'...but since you did fool around, don't go too long w/o contacting 'M' and letting her know you had a nice time or whatever if you plan to keep dating her.


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## cheewagacheewaga

voivod said:


> not heat, dawg, just trying to point out some flaws in your thinking toward this budding relationship. seeing it through someone elses eyes sometime will help with perspective. it's all good.


Go easy on me! 



swedish said:


> If there is any heat, it will come from this stereotype of Americans...many of us who've made sacrifices and worked very hard over the years would probably find this offensive.


I know I'm generalizing, and in some ways, if you find offense to it, then that's good! It shows that you aren't the typical American, and that you work hard. Being a minority, I have experienced prejudice and humiliation because I was not white. But it's something I do not want to get into. Lets just say I enjoy being in the Bay Area because of the ethnic diversity and tolerance, although you can never completely avoid it. 



draconis said:


> Sounds like M was into you and you are going to throw that away? Hell tell her you are a virgin and ask her to guide you.
> 
> draconis


1) I wanted to see how things played out with "C"
2) I'm sort of scared to have sex. I admit it



swedish said:


> my thoughts on "C" are: drop the leaving the party thing...you already told her it's because you have insecurities...she will either think it's because you saw her with bob or that you aren't comfortable in a room of people you don't know...either way if it comes up I'd just stick with 'i guess i was having a bad day.' and let it go...otherwise, you will probably open yourself up for some awkward conversation....you could still bring her a cookie scented candle  remind her that she bakes some yummy cookies...and remember, you are allowed to be as subtle as you need to ... don't set yourself up for a huge blow ... you don't have to announce you are interested... you can still use the 'how's the dating scene going for you?' or whatever to get the conversation going in that direction.
> 
> With 'M', I personally thing it's good you stopped when you did because if you are still pursuing 'C' you might be best in taking things slowly with 'M'...but since you did fool around, don't go too long w/o contacting 'M' and letting her know you had a nice time or whatever if you plan to keep dating her.


I had my brunch with "C" this morning and it went fine. I apologized about walking out on her party and told her that I get really shy at parties and particularly women. I *know* that she knows I am interested in her, but this didn't seem to make the conversation awkward. We just both choose not to bring it up, if you know what I mean. I then told her about "M" and she seemed happy for me that I am dating. I also got to dig a little more about her boyfriend, Bob. They won't last, at least I hope not. You know how you see those trainwreck couples? Well, that seems like them. But strangely people STILL marry. Love makes people go blind, and I hope I don't fall into that trap. Either way, I am perfectly feeling fine that she's seeing someone and that I don't have a shot at her. She's still a great friend to have around.

Anyhow, I am going out with "M" Friday night. I hope her and I can have some fun again. It's been at least 10+ years since I've held a woman and kissed. And 10+ years since I've seen live boobs!:smthumbup:

All in all, I think everything is going to be alright.


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## voivod

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I know I'm generalizing, and in some ways, if you find offense to it, then that's good! It shows that you aren't the typical American, and that you work hard. Being a minority, I have experienced prejudice and humiliation because I was not white. But it's something I do not want to get into. Lets just say I enjoy being in the Bay Area because of the ethnic diversity and tolerance, although you can never completely avoid it.


come on!!! the typical american doesn't work hard???


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## swedish

:slap:
someone hand cheewa a shovel...he keeps digging himself deeper into this hole


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## draconis

swedish said:


> :slap:
> someone hand cheewa a shovel...he keeps digging himself deeper into this hole



:iagree:

draconis


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## cheewagacheewaga

swedish said:


> :slap:
> someone hand cheewa a shovel...he keeps digging himself deeper into this hole


I don't understand. What am I doing wrong this time????  I thought everything seems cleared up with "C" and "M"? I can be friends with "C" and be with "M". It's a win-win, isn't it??


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## draconis

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I don't understand. What am I doing wrong this time????  I thought everything seems cleared up with "C" and "M"? I can be friends with "C" and be with "M". It's a win-win, isn't it??


Yes you can be friends with c and date m.

draconis


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## voivod

just as long as m is a hard working m...
where's the forest???? damned trees always getting in the way...


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## swedish

cheewagacheewaga said:


> I don't understand. What am I doing wrong this time????  I thought everything seems cleared up with "C" and "M"? I can be friends with "C" and be with "M". It's a win-win, isn't it??


My post was in reference to these:


cheewagacheewaga said:


> I know I'm generalizing, and in some ways, if you find offense to it, then that's good! It shows that you aren't the typical American, and that you work hard. Being a minority, I have experienced prejudice and humiliation because I was not white. But it's something I do not want to get into. Lets just say I enjoy being in the Bay Area because of the ethnic diversity and tolerance, although you can never completely avoid it.





voivod said:


> come on!!! the typical american doesn't work hard???


Sounds like you have the dating situation well under control


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## cheewagacheewaga

It's not so much that Americans are absolutely lazy, but there is this work ethic that Americans have that I just don't understand. I suspect it comes from the broken public education system, or the fact that there are a lot of single parents now who do not care for their children as they should. Or maybe it's too much TV time for Americans. Anyhow, I digress from my original post of 2 women taking me out and me ending up with neither one of them.


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## voivod

cheewagacheewaga said:


> It's not so much that Americans are absolutely lazy, but there is this work ethic that Americans have that I just don't understand. I suspect it comes from the broken public education system, or the fact that there are a lot of single parents now who do not care for their children as they should. Or maybe it's too much TV time for Americans. Anyhow, I digress from my original post of 2 women taking me out and me ending up with neither one of them.


we probably seem lazy compared to our past, when we were building the greatest society this planet has ever known, where a person can come from any oppressed background and become a success. building that was pretty hard work.


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## cheewagacheewaga

I also don't see much heart or dedication into the work anymore. It is just half-ass work. People aren't loyal and helpful to the well-being of the company anymore. But then again, companies have been screwing over people, too!


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## dcrim

You took the words right out of my mouth, Chee! 

I've been with my company over 1.5 years and well past due for a raise (and have the performance marks to demonstrate that! My boss argued strongly that I should get one!). This year, "due to the economy", all admin personel will not be getting a raise. I'm considered admin (meaning salaried). 

sigh...  At least I have a job and for that I'm thankful.


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## cheewagacheewaga

Anyone read that new Malcom Gladwell book, Outliers? I am almost finished reading it, but he makes an interesting point about how Asians are one of the hardest working people, and hence why they are good at math, and I would personally stretch that to academics, science, and work ethics. None of this has anything to do with genetics or biological superiority. Gladwell talks about how it is because of their culture (growing rice) and language. Gladwell even goes to show that the English language is a big disadvantage when it comes to math. Somehow counting numbers in English does not make sense to young children. VERY FASCINATING!!! But don't worry people, being smart isn't a guarantee in life. Check out the book!

Here's the link to the book on Amazon. He also wrote Blink and The Tipping Point, which are also two other great books.
Amazon.com: Outliers: The Story of Success: Malcolm Gladwell: Books


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## OldFashionedGuy

Chew, I made it through all 10 pages of this one, I didn't read every iota, but soaked in enough to see where you are at, what your dilema is and I'm going to offer some help.

along the work ethic tangent, I'm a business owner, the likes of which, I doubt a 9-5er could ever relate to me along work ethics, and trust me on this one, the last person I had in my shop was having a very difficult time keeping up with me and he was x army ranger, a literal tough combat soldier and I was only giving him light duty....

The one thing you must develop is knowing just this, and this alone, attitude is everything, absolutely everything, with it you can move mountains, and it's that confidence they will see that matters most. I can get the women that want power, money, looks, etc. those are easy, what I want is not that at all, and unfortunatly it's becoming more rare to find quality women that do not play games, that tell it to you straight and you are able to just be yourself, speak your mind and they do the same. 

You are trying to figure out a game they are playing, a set of unwritten rules, and code of conduct they have created and this is not only a childish set of rules and code, it's utterly ridicoules that we guys put up with them, yet we all too often do. I have my own mess to deal with in this area, thinking I found one, but time is going to tell here, my options in this area are piling up day by day and it's because of what I am, what I have on my plate, and you know what, I'm still a total nice guy to boot.

Original scenereo, those women really seemed to be threesome material, their motives could be anywhere from knowing you will give you all to pleasure them, ie. be a boy toy, to they were feeling sorry for you and were offering you some pity recreation to help boost your ego and get you on the right track, or they may have just out right have been playing a sick game to see which one you will try to go for, for that would be the winner and the game would be ended.

It's now too late for the original scenereo, they know now that what you are looking for is something with deeper meaning, and it sounds like the one you picked isn't looking for that at all, or isn't capable of it. I'd be pissed about that one getting kissed upon at the party, it was a good thing you left, even better you didn't answer the phone, it shows you have standards for yourself and she crossed a line there. 

Your ideal is rare to find in American women these days, we have an entire globe of women that would be utterly grateful to have a nice guy like you. 

I assume you did get your skin problems fixed, if not, make that first priority, second being your career, third, the dates will happen automatically. It's funny how it works, when you aren't looking, that is when they show up, even tonight, I had someone ask me if I had a girlfriend, at my very residence, lol. 

Something that's going to floor you, women are more insecure then us guys, so much more then you can imagine. Stuff we dont' even notice, they obsess over, and believe me, a kind word contrary to stuff they are worried about makes a world of difference to them. If you can keep this in mind, you are going to be much less nervous. I can use examples, such as how much pain, time, and utter obsession they go over, just taking care of simply eyebrows. Can you imagine a guy putting that much effort into simple facial growth like that? It's stupid, I know, but it's just how they are.

Those two "banned" chicks that were giving you advice, take note, they are banned, the advice they were giving is how to appease a bi-tch, you clearly are looking for someone of quality, not someone of attitude, this is why they were so harsh on you, this is also why their advice only works on other women in their caliber, of which should have no place in your life, for clearly you want something more.

Good luck, and never cut yourself down again, that's the worse thing you can do, be your own best friend, not your own worse enemy.


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