# Why does ED cause other affection to be withheld?



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

I try to be understanding about my husband's ED. I have accepted the fact that even with the drugs he just . . . can't. Our sex life wasn't great before marriage; we spent some time trying unsuccessfully to have a baby but honestly at this point I don't remember the last time we had sex. It has to be more than 3-4 years ago. 

I convinced myself that I was being too pushy, demanding too much. On the rare occasion when I could get DH to talk about it, he'd promise more sex but look like I just killed his puppy when he would call himself defective. 

What I really want to know is how to jump start other forms of intimacy. He still has hands & a mouth but he is not interested in anything. I'm lonely. I miss the exercise from vigorous sex. I miss the good endorphins that are released which combat depression and foster connection. 

Divorce is not an option I'm prepared for. I take my vows seriously: for better or worse. Alas this may be one of the areas where I'm stuck with worse. I do know I could make a claim for a religious annulment on the grounds of marital abandonment but I genuinely like my husband & I enjoy our life together. I just miss sex.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ED isn't the cause. He's just not interested in other forms of sexuality with you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I don't agree that ED isn't the cause. I think he is ashamed and feels like failure and unworthy of affection. He is also afraid that you will want to go further and he will fail again which is probably reliving the reminder that he is a failure in his mind and emotionally very painful. 

Has he been to the doctor?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm sure you know the possible reasons for your husband's ED and failure to have other forms of sex with you are numerous and there is little point is us trying to find some generic reason. Men, in general, feel embarrassed and inadequate when they can't get it up. Has he sought medical/psychological held. How old is he. Most important, is he interested in fixing the problem? Why he's not interest in using other methods and toy to take care of you is anybody's guess but sounds lackadaisical on his part at best. 
In the final analysis you've got three choice if you stay married; 1. keep going like its going patiently wait for a fix while personally taking care of your own needs , 2. try to push him into doing what he can do exclusive of PIV, 3. Find someone on the side either with or without his permission. In any case, he has a problem that impacts your marriage and he owns that whether he likes it or not. But you're going to have to own weighing the benefits of what ever action you take against the cost of that action.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm in the ED isn't the cause camp. When I first got ED I was like I'm going to fix it or set her free. Went to the doc and changed a med, all good. When I had to go back on that med I also got ED pills. They work for me but about half the time I don't even take them and we still have satisfying sex.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

sokillme said:


> Has he been to the doctor?


He has been to many doctors over the past 10 years. He has seen the family doctor. The pills worked for a little while & when we were trying to have kids I would always approach him in the morning to take advantage of nature. He doesn't even get aroused in the morning any more. He has tried all the pills -- Viagra, Cialis, generics -- nothing happens. He's been to at least 2 PCPs, 3 urologists & a fertility specialist. I have suggest marriage counseling but he claims talk won't help. I suggested a sex therapist but he just shut down; it was like I watched the whole man collapse into himself. The idea of a sex therapist was so horrifying to him. 

He's not getting it else where. It's more like he's asexual. If I thought he was unfaithful I'd be long gone. Most people who know us think we have a perfect marriage. That just makes me feel lonelier. 

@VladDracul I'm not gonna cheat. I'd divorce before I did that & I'm not going to divorce. 

I was hoping for suggestions to get him more interested in anything. If I ask he will cuddle me but nothing else. I hate that have to ask.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

D0nnivain said:


> He has been to many doctors over the past 10 years. He has seen the family doctor. The pills worked for a little while & when we were trying to have kids I would always approach him in the morning to take advantage of nature. He doesn't even get aroused in the morning any more. He has tried all the pills -- Viagra, Cialis, generics -- nothing happens. He's been to at least 2 PCPs, 3 urologists & a fertility specialist. I have suggest marriage counseling but he claims talk won't help. I suggested a sex therapist but he just shut down; it was like I watched the whole man collapse into himself. The idea of a sex therapist was so horrifying to him.
> 
> He's not getting it else where. It's more like he's asexual. If I thought he was unfaithful I'd be long gone. Most people who know us think we have a perfect marriage. That just makes me feel lonelier.
> 
> ...


Forget about the ED, He is choosing to not be intimate with you in any way. Spare the sob story that he feels inadequate, unworthy, humiliated etc. The fact is he is choosing to not provide you any sexual satisfaction is on him 100%. There are many many other ways to be intimate and please a woman. He has been and continues to do nothing. That is the main take away. I think you should reconsider you aversion to divorce.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If he wanted to fix it, he would. Unfortunately, this is just who he is.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

He should look into talking with a counselor -- sometimes ED is NOT physical. There may be issues that are affecting him in this realm.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

D0nnivain said:


> @VladDracul I'm not gonna cheat. I'd divorce before I did that & I'm not going to divorce.


That's just an option melady. Some exercise it; some don't.
D0nni, how old is your husband? Am I understanding that his ED happened after you married?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Does he hold your hand, cuddle and kiss you at all? If there's no sex AND no other affection of any kind, that would be very hard to live with.

Is the ED a new problem or recent?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I don’t like shoe shopping but my wife does. I do it for her. If I had no feet I would still go with her. 

ED is not the end of sexuality. You husband has no care about your basic relationship needs..... it’s that simple. One online trip to LoveHoney is all it takes to find more fun than the bedroom can handle.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

The problem isn't just ED. I would be willing to bet the guy has ultra low testosterone. Not only will low test cause ED but the pills won't work because you still need to be aroused for the sex pills to work, and with low test, he is not getting aroused. Have any of those doctors suggested a testosterone check? He needs to be on TRT. That will bring everything back, not just the erections, but the desire also.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I guess if he's gone to all these doctors and they haven't yet done a testosterone panel, then that should still be done. But I bet they've tried it. 

I had a bf who wouldn't even TELL me he had ED and would come around regularly and avoid having sex with me. He told me years later after therapy. I thought I had gone delusional and was just imagining our relationship, and he let me think that. Grrr. 

He did get over it (with therapy and was married by then). His was some trauma causation. It's even possible a physical accident may have also affected him. He had run into a saw down his leg or thigh thereabouts at some point. 

Anyway, men with ED just want to avoid sex altogether. The most this guy would do with me is like play-fight or wrestle. 

Seems like men have their whole identities wrapped up in their penises. It's hard for most women to fathom. If their penis is a failure, I think they just feel like a failure too.

I know you and your husband have always been close and have an otherwise good relationship. I don't think it has to do with him being punitive towards you at all. I do think therapy might benefit him because even if it never started out that way, by now with the ED, there will be an emotional component to it. There may be one going way further back than that he needs to get to the bottom of as well. Therapy would be uncomfortable for him. I think he needs to go alone to a psychologist. And then once he got comfortable or felt he was making any progress or that they were guiding him to find things he needed to think about, then maybe work you in and your needs. But it's a long road.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I've never had an incident of ED ever, but if I did suffer some form of permanent or chronic ED, it's about a 100% chance that I would give up sex entirely...I know it sounds selfish, perhaps, but it's just a complete end of the line for a lot of guys...I can't say it's that way for all men, obviously, as you see even on this thread that there are guys that would just give a woman whatever she wanted, but what good is it if you can't do the one thing that is most important as a man?? It would be crushing....and just the mere anxiety of will work or not, alone would probably kill any feeling I ever had...But that's me....and_ I think_ a lot of others...So please...some of y'all have to stop ragging on this guy or any other for this...If it works for you, great, but it doesn't mean the guy is a horrible person or anything...
\
Oh, and here's another thing...I don't know how many women he's been with, but if I had a nickel for every time a woman complained that some ex couldn't get it up, then I could stack nickels for miles...So now that guy falls in that category, so how can he ever feel any good about being intimate with a limp pecker?? And all of these women that say they don't care, well...I don't know any... 😂

As for therapy, it's fine if he attempts it on his own, but the minute you start pressing him to go to therapy, then forget it...All its doing is adding to the pressure to do something he isn't willing to do of his own accord and all he will do at that point is placate you and get you off his back for a while...

I don't know what advice to give in this situation...Who knows what's going on in his head, maybe he isn't into women or just isn't into sex?? Who knows?? If you don't want to divorce or find a guy on the side, then accept it and get yourself off...get as many toys as you want, and use porn if that floats your boat...I doubt this will get better....I hope I am wrong, but I can't see that based on your story....

Good luck,..


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

"Our sex life wasn't great before marriage" is a big red flag.

A lot more to this picture for sure. Some questions ...

1. How old is he? How long have you been married?
2. How is his physical fitness --and how is your's? Are you both very overweight? What about diet and exercise?
3. What about his relationships before you got married? Did he always have sexual issues with women, or just you?

I am suspicious about his sexuality. He has tried drugs, seen doctors, etc., and it hasn't worked? That means it might be psychological.

But if he is very overweight, and in poor health, that wrecks bedroom performance. He would need to get on a serious diet and exercise regiment.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Give him regular testosterone injections and have a 3 piece inflatable penile implant installed.

The pump is internal and replaces one of the testes in his scrotum.

Nothing is visible.

This is the last case scenario of what is possible.

But, he must want this.....

And you, as his wife must support this. Many women don't like the thought of such a thing.

My cousin is a Urologist and I heard him give that advice to some guy at a party. This was five years ago.
I would imagine they have perfected those pumps.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> Give him regular testosterone injections and have a 3 piece inflatable penile implant installed.
> 
> The pump is internal and replaces one of the testes in his scrotum.
> 
> ...


When I get old I gotta have one of those with a compressor and Mrs. Married can turn it on via Bluetooth with her phone.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

I am going to disagree with those that say the ED isn't behind his lack of non-penetrative intimacy. 

I have enough interaction with the medical field on a daily basis to understand that not only do psychological/psychiatric problems play a role in many physical symptoms/diseases, but that in turn many physical diseases play a role in psychological/psychiatric problems. I've seen firsthand the kind of mental and emotional toll that medical conditions have on peoples' emotional/psychiatric/marital health and well-being.

With all due respect to @CharlieParker , although it's great that pills worked for you, there are a significant percentage of men in whom ED medications are not effective. That has the potential for utterly destroying the man's self-image and self-worth. It would be all too common to just avoid intimacy altogether. Is that a good route to take? Of course not, because the lack of intimacy also leaves the partner frustrated (as it does in this case), and still erodes the relationship. But it's all too common a reaction. 

This is very different that the spouse that just denies sex to their partner. In this case, the guy almost always WANTS to be able to have sex, but CAN'T, and the psychological/emotional fallout is just too great. So instead he goes into avoidance mode. It is so hard to start cuddling, foreplay, etc., when he knows he can't have penetrative sex. It would serve as a burning reminder to him of being "less than a full man". 

What he needs more than anything is individual AND marital/sex therapy. Is it possible that he is just asexual/low drive? Theoretically, but in the setting of lack of ABILITY, it is hard to make that conclusion, and I certainly wouldn't do so without giving individual/marital/sex therapy a shot first. His willingness to see doctors, fertility specialists, etc. that the OP revealed, however, makes me suspect that it is really the ED, not being asexual. He was willing to seek help on a physical level. Unfortunately, it is all too common for people to be resistant to any sort of psychological counseling-- for many conditions, not just this. In fact, there are potential downsides to doing so in some areas of life (certain types of employment, firearms permits, etc.), because ALL psychological/psychiatric therapy gets lumped together with a broad brush.

I think there is a chance he may be able to come to terms with his situation with proper counseling, especially individual therapy AND sex therapy. Depending on his particular circumstance, an implant may be an option, but he would have to be psychologically ready for it. It is sad to read the OP state that her husband refuses to go. I'm not sure the best approach to use to get him to change his mind without knowing more specifics about him, and what approach has been tried before. 

And, as a side note, I think it is absolutely shameful that many or most insurances will refuse to cover ED medications. It is just as important to a man's---and a couple's---psychological well-being as any psychiatric drug. It is now mandatory to cover birth control medications for women, but no one addresses the obvious hypocrisy of not covering the ED medications for men.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I thank God that even at 56 , I’ve never suffered from ED. I think your husband is probably in a deep shame. He probably avoids giving other forms of affection because he fears it will trigger you to want what he’s not able to give. 

As another TAMer mentioned, we men can tie a lot of our worth to being able to please our woman, and not being able to perform, I’m sure your husband feels less than so e avoids the whole thing. Kind of ostrich with head in the sand. he has no idea that he’s ripening you up for the taking.


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## Schek (Jul 2, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> I don’t like shoe shopping but my wife does. I do it for her. If I had no feet I would still go with her.
> 
> ED is not the end of sexuality. You husband has no care about your basic relationship needs..... it’s that simple. One online trip to LoveHoney is all it takes to find more fun than the bedroom can handle.


I really dislike when I see comments like this comparing "shoe shopping" to having someone on you & in you in a most intimate way. Also, marriage and sex issues aren't solved by going outside the marriage in any capacity. You work to solve the issue first. If it can't be solved, then you go and find what you desire.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Two immediate appointments. First to your primary care physician. You need to be in the room for any and all explanations. Had a client last year who really was just not into sex. Dr told both of them that the ED could be ameliorated with several drugs, none of which he was interested in taking. It made the situation more than clear for her. Second appointment is with a therapist. Need to find alternative schema to PIV intimacy. Here too you will get your answers as to whether or not this relationship is viable on a physical level at all.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

He'll be 50 next year. Like most people, me included, he probably packed on 15 - 20 pounds with Covid but we have both been working to shed those pounds. He's not obese (although technically I am; my BMI puts me 4 pounds into the obese category but most people think I'm slender). I stopped baking as much (I stress bake) and we cut down the alcohol. Yes, I know booze can effect performance. I am not complaining about Whiskey D**k. That goes away when you sober up. This is something else. His testosterone levels tested in the normal range when we were trying to have kids. 

I don't know how to persuade him to open up. He's a Marine Veteran who comes from a dysfunctional family. Prying an emotion out of him isn't easy 

I may suggest he go back to the doctor & ask about the pump. 

I do fear on some level he's asexual. I have tried to talk to him about what does excite him & he says "nothing." I have a drawer full of lingerie. He doesn't care. I have offered for us to buy marital aids. He says no thanks. Within reason, short of other people, I'd be willing to give him almost anything he asked for. He does not have much experience with the opposite sex. We'll be married 13 years this fall; together 15. Before me he hadn't really dated in 10 years (late 20s to early 30s) because the woman he had wanted to marry at 25 broke his heart. He got back in the dating pool a few months before he met me but he was very shy & clueless. Based on how handsome he is, most women steered clear because they assumed based on what he looks like that he was a player. Heck, I thought so too when I 1st laid eyes on him but I wanted sexy, light, fun & definitely not serious. Look where that got me. 

He really is a great guy. Handsome. Caring. Loyal. Funny as heck; he makes me laugh so hard I have tears in my eyes at least once per day. He's solvent. He's intelligent & quick witted. He's industrious. I just wish we had a better connection in the bedroom.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

I have a close friend from college that I suspect is 'asexual'...he never seemed to chase anyone, never was interested, never had a girlfriend or boyfriend...it just wasn't something he was into. If there's a spectrum on this sort of thing it's very possible that's where your husband is. 20 years later my friend is the happiest guy and living the dream...but always single.

You also mentioned religious annulment...which tells me that at least you are highly religious. Is he? Without placing judgement many faiths historically have demonized anything other than traditional heterosexual. Very possible that he's gay as well, but wanting to live within the faith.

Suggest some real open and understanding dialog here and creating an environment where he can be honest with his best friend...and be prepared to hear something you might not like and process without judgement.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

I don't think he's gay but honestly I haven't 100% ruled it out. I really think he's asexual if anything. His extended family is one of the most diverse groups of people I have ever known even if his immediate family is white bread & "normal." I am more religious than he has ever been even though we technically share the same faith. It's not a matter of him thinking he won't be accepted (I don't think) because there are openly gay family members. I know he thinks of me as a safe space because he has shared things with me that nobody else knows & has shown emotion in my presence even though the idea of letting anyone know he has feelings is beyond abhorrent to him so I don't think it's completely a lack of trust. 

I know he thinks I think he's let me down. I don't feel let down by the ED. Do I wish it were different? Sure. Do I blame him? No. But I do feel let down or unheard by his unwillingness to do the things he can do. That's my real issue . I don't know where that withholding is coming from or how to make something else, non-PIV, happen. 

Am I making myself clear? With message boards I'm never sure.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Schek said:


> I really dislike when I see comments like this comparing "shoe shopping" to having someone on you & in you in a most intimate way. Also, marriage and sex issues aren't solved by going outside the marriage in any capacity. You work to solve the issue first. If it can't be solved, then you go and find what you desire.


Let me restart:

ED is not the end of sexuality.
LoveHoney is an online adult shop. 
If my pecker didn’t work I would visit LoveHoney and buy a replacement.
I would then use said replacement with my wife.
At this time it can also be noted that my mouth and hands still work.

Repeat: ED is not the end of sexuality.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> ED is not the end of sexuality.
> LoveHoney is an online adult shop.
> If my pecker didn’t work I would visit LoveHoney and buy a replacement.
> I would then use said replacement with my wife.
> ...


I agree with you which is why I'm frustrated. DH isn't doing any of that. How do I get him interested in that? 

@Taxman who suggested 2 appointments. I have been to the PCP appointments with him. Even if I wanted to go now, I could not with Covid. I suppose he could face time me from the appointment. 

I have suggested MC / therapy. He said no. He's an adult. What am I supposed to do tie him to a chair & open up the chat on my computer with the therapist? I am not about to go nuclear & say if he doesn't go to therapy I'm divorcing him. As I said, I won't divorce him so making empty threats undermines my position. I suppose I could resort to tears.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

My exH withdrew all other affection and quality time together as way to keep me away sexally. I'd guess that's what is happening here. It's not easy to live with in marriage...I think a hard conversation needs to take place. The sad fact is that not all ED can be successfully treated. If he's untreatable and you accept that he's tried all he can and you accept a sex free marriage but want the other stuff, affection, snuggling, attention from him, etc then you need to TELL him that plainly and clearly so he knows you won't push him for sex when those other things happen. 

Good luck!!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Livvie said:


> ED isn't the cause. He's just not interested in other forms of sexuality with you.


i strongly disagree. 

he is probably VERY embarrassed that he can not get it up. And it sears his brain so much, that he is avoiding ANY even moderate sexual situation that might lead to him having to perform in bed. 

well, you have to work on him to get his mind right.
you can point out that when you agreed to marriage, that entailed him being required to sexually please you. so he has an unfulfilled obligation to try.

What you have him try is totally up to you.
Obviously oral sex is a good substitute. 
Sex toys, like various dildos, vibrators, etc. they even make a strap on that is hollow that he can put his penis inside of, and still have PIV sex with you.
but more kinky things, such as various types of bondage? Maybe you enjoy being tied up, having some nipple torture, etc. and He can take on the role of Dominant once again, something he is missing probably.
Or he might enjoy being tied up, humiliated, made a sissy. I mean, if his penis is not working, then some guys actually like being humiliated about it, made to dress up like a woman.
Some men really enjoy being "pegged", where you wear a strap on and have anal sex with him...a lot of women really enjoy doing that too.

you can take these various role plays to all sorts of levels. the question is what turns you on, and turns him on too.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

reading over some other comments, the penile implant one is worth a try. i hear it hurts like hell for a week or two, but then a month later you are ready for takeoff again.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

was thinking, a good way to get this all going.
dress up in some lingerie. get a vibrating dildo. go to whereever he is, sit down, and start playing with your self. demand that he watch.

after some time, ask him to hold the dildo for you, and very loudly exclaim how great it feels when he does start to move it inside of you. 

you would be teaching him that he CAN still make you cum, and that it is not humiliating but rather you PREFER him to use a dildo on you, and it makes you very hot!

sometimes it is easier to show him what you want, than to talk about it ahead of time. don't be shy, just do it


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

@Talker67 I appreciate you taking the time but I'm WAAYYYYYY too vanilla to do 1/2 of what you suggest. If I tried to even talk about some of what you suggest my husband would probably die of a heart attack in front of me. He really is not capable of the conversation.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It looks like you're going to have to be content with a good laugh once a day. If your husband were interested in anything physical, he would have done so by now. A dog will provide you with affection.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

D0nnivain said:


> @Talker67 I appreciate you taking the time but I'm WAAYYYYYY too vanilla to do 1/2 of what you suggest. If I tried to even talk about some of what you suggest my husband would probably die of a heart attack in front of me. He really is not capable of the conversation.


that IS a problem....sometimes it is just too embarrassing to talk about it.
but also sometimes it is just easier to dive right in and show him, try to turn him on, no talking involved.
certainly wearing some lingerie in front of him and teasing him is within your comfort level! Go buy yourself something extremely sexy and provocative, and prance about the house in it!

its not a question of if you are too vanilla or not, or if he is too! Its more a question of "what can i do to feel sexy myself", and "what can i do to turn him on, to make him hard"

maybe a first step: take a sexy picture of yourself, and text it to him!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Back to testosterone injections.

Ask around, find a sympathetic doctor. Maybe a female MD. It need not be an urologist, any MD, DO can prescribe injections. This, even if he has normal levels of T.

But, he must do the asking.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Back to testosterone injections.
> 
> Ask around, find a sympathetic doctor. Maybe a female MD. It need not be an urologist, any MD, DO can prescribe injections. This, even if he has normal levels of T.
> 
> But, he must do the asking.


at least have him tested for testosterone levels.
i hear they have creams you apply under your arm, no injection reqired.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

D0nnivain said:


> *I do fear on some level he's asexual.* I have tried to talk to him about what does excite him & he says "nothing." I have a drawer full of lingerie. *He doesn't care.* I have offered for us to buy marital aids. *He says no thanks.* Within reason, short of other people, *I'd be willing to give him almost anything he asked for. *


One problem you need to acknowledge is that you are trying to please someone that may have little or no desire to be pleased sexually.

This however does not mean that the marriage has to be sexless, but it requires one to shift expectations and perspectives. Your sole focus should be showing him how to love and care for you sexually. Try and be easy to please and make things very obvious for him (since he likely feels uncomfortable). When he does something right, make it a point to try and use positive reinforcement and compliment him. Refrain from complaining. Try and make him feel loved and accepted just the way he is and avoid sending him to the doctor (he should go on his own self motivation). 

Initially what this means is that you may need to engage in self pleasure and share that with him very openly in a way that is trying to be positive about you wanting him to be with you when that happens. Don't insist that he needs to respond with his own arousal, just try and make him feel accepted when he is with you when that happens. Gradually he may begin to participate, and gradually he may even begin to respond with arousal and want you to reciprocate. You may discover that he is good at his own self pleasure and he may begin to share that with you and talk about it. 

Hope that helps, 
Badsanta


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> maybe a first step: take a sexy picture of yourself, and text it to him!


Absolutely NOT. I don't even bank or shop on my phone because I have zero trust in the technology. I can't imagine doing that. 

He'd also probably laugh or ask me WTF I did that. No thanks. I can't handle that level of overt rejection. 

@badsanta I think you & @Talker67 are giving me similar messages but you are doing a better job of using language that is more palatable to me. @Talker67 is more blunt than I'm open to. Doesn't make him wrong. I'm trying to hear what you are both saying. It's just tough. 

DH had his testosterone tested & it was just fine. That is when I kind of gave up, assuming it must be me.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

sorry, i will back off.
i do tend to be blunt sometimes.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

D0nnivain said:


> @badsanta I think you & @Talker67 are giving me similar messages but you are doing a better job of using language that is more palatable to me. @Talker67 is more blunt than I'm open to. Doesn't make him wrong. I'm trying to hear what you are both saying. It's just tough.


In my marriage there were many times that my wife was not in the mood for me to try and get her aroused so that we can have sex when I wanted. She also became unwilling to please me because historically I would insist she should be aroused as well (almost as if I needed to test to see if she desired/loved me). 

I eventually let go of that and had gave her room to respond on her own terms. I also made an effort to allow much more nonsexual intimacy without pressuring her for sex. She struggled with feeling inadequate, so I transformed my desire for her into something that gave me energy to compliment her and be appreciative of positive things as opposed to complaining about not getting enough sex. As a result she became more willing to please me knowing that I would not insist on her having to be aroused as well. Eventually she started responding and we both began to learn the circumstances she needed to enjoy intimacy. 

It was a long process (many years), but it is one where we are both open, understanding, and loving regarding the things we need from each other in order for things to be mutually enjoyable. We both developed a workable system to deal with urges in the event one becomes unrelenting at a time when the other is unlikely to respond (which now the majority of the time it end up being mutually pleasurable unexpectedly). 

A good place to start is to work on activities that deescalate sexual desire and that help sooth the situation. So if you are aroused and wanting intimacy from your spouse when that person needs to say no, work out a reasonable alternate option of some soothing nonsexual intimacy like a back rub. This way you feel loved and cared for instead of rejected and frustrated which will help a lot. 

In the event your spouse is struggling with feeling inadequate or as if he is somehow broken, suggestions of lingerie, novelties, or trying crazy ideas likely serve to validate his feeling that something is wrong with him and that things are becoming unnatural. So in moments you are able to work on improving intimacy, try and work towards keeping things very simple and natural as possible between the two of you (as in limit arousing things to various touches and sensations that do not require opening the nightstand and pulling out a tangled system of ropes and pulleys that connect to a reinforced ceiling fan). Research relaxing activities that lend themself towards erotic creativity that are simple and easy to facilitate. An example might be relaxing together in a hammock in creative positions that allow for gentle grinding with cloths on while slowly swinging back and forth.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> sorry, i will back off.
> i do tend to be blunt sometimes.


You don't have to back off. Blunt is OK. I tend to be blunt too. On the internet I have difficulty reading & conveying tone. 

I was saying my raw pain over this subject is making me highly sensitive & so the direct style is more jarring then it would be about a less emotional subject. I was trying to acknowledge my own bias here, not criticize you or the help you are offering.


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

D0nnivain said:


> Absolutely NOT. I don't even bank or shop on my phone because I have zero trust in the technology. I can't imagine doing that.
> 
> He'd also probably laugh or ask me WTF I did that. No thanks. I can't handle that level of overt rejection.
> 
> ...


Do you happen to recall the numbers? “...just fine...” could mean different things because the range they use for “normal” includes the full population of men (up to 80 years of age). His level could be high enough to produce sperm but too low to support further sexual expression.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> He'll be 50 next year. Like most people, me included, he probably packed on 15 - 20 pounds with Covid but we have both been working to shed those pounds. He's not obese (although technically I am; my BMI puts me 4 pounds into the obese category but most people think I'm slender). I stopped baking as much (I stress bake) and we cut down the alcohol. Yes, I know booze can effect performance. I am not complaining about Whiskey D**k. That goes away when you sober up. This is something else. His testosterone levels tested in the normal range when we were trying to have kids.
> 
> I don't know how to persuade him to open up. He's a Marine Veteran who comes from a dysfunctional family. Prying an emotion out of him isn't easy
> 
> ...


I really think think this is a desire and attraction issue and not something more cryptic like homosexuality, asexuality, etc. There is also a physiological component, but I don't think that is the main thing.

He doesn't want to have sex because he isn't attracted and there is zero desire.

For you to be obese is simply not acceptable: you have to take the weight off and stop pretending like it is OK, or not a big deal. It is a huge deal, and not only does it ruin your sex life and marriage, it could put you in an early grave from heart disease, type-2 diabetes, etc.

He also needs to lose weight and get into shape. I am 50 as well, and I know my testosterone is nowhere near what it was when I was 20. I am 6'1 185lbs and I work out 4-5 times a week. If I were 20-30 pounds overweight and didn't exercise, I might have ED problems as well. One of the reasons I keep in shape is to perform in bed.

This is a fixable problem, but it will take some time and a lot of effort. You might even want to see a nutritionist.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Manner1067 said:


> He doesn't want to have sex because he isn't attracted and there is zero desire.
> 
> For you to be obese is simply not acceptable: you have to take the weight off and stop pretending like it is OK, or not a big deal. It is a huge deal, and not only does it ruin your sex life and marriage, it could put you in an early grave from heart disease, type-2 diabetes, etc.


You misunderstand. If you looked at me you would think I am relatively slender for a middle aged woman. My BMI puts me into the "obese category" by *3 pounds*. I am 5'7 and weigh 162 lbs. To not be "obese" I should weigh 159 lbs. I'm a size 10. Trust me; my Covid weight isn't the problem. When we married I was about 140 & a size 6 but he wasn't attracted then either so it's not really my weight. If anything he has made positive comments that my boobs got bigger. 

For my 50th birthday I dieted & worked out like crazy for 1.5 years & got back down to 135 because I wanted to be able to wear a bikini on the beach on my 50th birthday. DH took me to Hawaii to celebrate but we didn't have sex then either. When I walked out on the beach in my bikini he handed me a pina colada & a cheeseburger saying "Eat. I'd rather you be fat & happy than skinny & bi***y. I love you no matter what size you are & I have never thought you were fat." So no, it's not my weight.

I have also tried to dress sexy for him in the past -- short skirts, nice stockings, high heels, great hair, perfect makeup -- but I stopped. I would get all dolled up. He wouldn't notice or comment but every other man I encountered would have something to say or stare. The attention affirmed that I am still attractive but it was unwanted. I don't want other man to find me desirable. I want HIM to want me & to act on it, Having to beat the rest of them off with a stick was simply annoying.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

two things.
first it seems that people DO get their sexual expectations up for a vacation. then when the sex does not happen, it is like a double whammy. You really hoped for a miracle, and it did not happen!

Second, keep up the exercising. I know with covid it is hard, but when things die down, join a gym. work out 3, maybe more, times a week. get the body fit, trim, toned, and sexy. HOPEFULLY it will shame your husband to do the same. If it is a coed gym, you can cajole him to come along. At the least YOU will feel sexy about yourself, and that is half the battle.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

@Talker67 Thanks for the optimism but I could become a fitness model & it would not motivate DH to follow suit I didn't have my expectations up about that vacation. I knew it wasn't going to happen. 

I have tried all sorts of things to get him interested. Each time I put in effort or undertake an expenditure or endure pain (some personal grooming things are painful if you get my drift) and nothing happens I give up. Now I'd really just rather have dessert & that 2nd glass of wine. Eating my comfort at least keeps me from crying or worse. 

Other then telling me to lose weight (which was never the problem), get his testosterone checked or divorce it doesn't seem like there are many options.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

D0nnivain said:


> @Talker67 Thanks for the optimism but I could become a fitness model & it would not motivate DH to follow suit I didn't have my expectations up about that vacation. I knew it wasn't going to happen.
> 
> I have tried all sorts of things to get him interested. Each time I put in effort or undertake an expenditure or endure pain (some personal grooming things are painful if you get my drift) and nothing happens I give up. Now I'd really just rather have dessert & that 2nd glass of wine. Eating my comfort at least keeps me from crying or worse.
> 
> Other then telling me to lose weight (which was never the problem), get his testosterone checked or divorce it doesn't seem like there are many options.


there are a shortage of nuns, i hear.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> DH had his testosterone tested & it was just fine. That is when I kind of gave up, assuming it must be me.


Investigate what his level is. A doctor friend who owns clinics that administer bioidentical hormone replacement therapy says he's seeing current and former military guys with testosterone levels below 100. Our military personnel are given all sorts of shots and vaccines that are destroying their systems. The "normal" range is 300 to 600. However, the "normal" number keeps dropping. The real number, as it was 100 years ago, is 1200. If I were him, I'd get the pellets (inserted surgically into his butt cheeks) and give it a try. Some people argue that other forms of testosterone supplementation run a risk of promoting prostate cancer. BHRT does not.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Honestly, sounds like you and him have tried everything. It could be depression and self loathing. And I really kind of doubt his testosterone levels are fine. Of the things I think should be tried is exercise and especially weight lifting. All you need is a gym membership. Or you even could recommendyo him that you both enroll in a crossfit program together. That would likely elevate his mood and increase testosterone.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Sfort said:


> Our military personnel are given all sorts of shots and vaccines that are destroying their systems.


that is interesting. DH is a vet. That might be a conversation he will have.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> that is interesting. DH is a vet. That might be a conversation he will have.


You have to talk with a doctor who does not accept 600 as normal. Most doctors are interested in prolonging your life. Too many of them are not concerned about the quality of life. At least that's what a doctor friend told me.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Check the BMI chart again. You appear to be in the overweight category - not the obese category.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> Am I making myself clear? With message boards I'm never sure.


You always make yourself clear. Some other message boards out there just have comprehension problems. 

Just an observation, I don't think the decision to come out or not is always predicated on how accepting the social circle would be. I think some gay men struggle internally coming to terms with the label and all it brings to their self image.

Based on everything you've posted here and elsewhere I'd guess he falls into that category. He is not particularly interested in opening up that door, probably never will be and enjoys his life with you. I doubt you'll ever get to have an honest conversation with him about it. He's probably well aware it might throw your marriage into jeopardy if he admits it. If he's even admitted it to himself.

I wish I had a more appealing opinion about the matter but it's good to see you posting over here none the less d0nni.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Sfort said:


> Investigate what his level is. A doctor friend who owns clinics that administer bioidentical hormone replacement therapy says he's seeing current and former military guys with testosterone levels below 100. Our military personnel are given all sorts of shots and vaccines that are destroying their systems. The "normal" range is 300 to 600. However, the "normal" number keeps dropping. The real number, as it was 100 years ago, is 1200. If I were him, I'd get the pellets (inserted surgically into his butt cheeks) and give it a try. Some people argue that other forms of testosterone supplementation run a risk of promoting prostate cancer. BHRT does not.



Not quoting this to make any point, but more of an opinion, because it seems like everyone just jumps to the "T" issue whenever a guy wont have sex with a particular woman... Porn being a close second....

While either of these scenarios could be the cause, more often than not, it isn't the cause....A lot(id even venture to say most) guys don't start banging women that they have basically totally given up on sexually for a significant length of time (as what seems to be the case with the OP), because they have testosterone treatment...or even gave up on porn...Whatever it was to "make that go away" doesn't come back if there is a change...Not IME, anyway....

Actually in these cases, what's more likely to happen is that he goes out and starts banging someone else that he may not have thought of when his drive was in the toilet..

I guess in some of these cases, be careful what you wish for....It's similar to when some guys push their wives to get into shape in hopes that they will start becoming more intimate...Minute that woman starts gaining some confidence and getting noticed, she starts going after her personal trainer or her husbands best friend...


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

@hamadryad 

While the idea that once confidence increases after the performance issues stop, a person goes out looking for strange is a real thing, as much as I'd hate it, that would be better than this. Then I could get mad & that would probably enable me to divorce, or he would initiate it. Now I just feel stuck. 

Knowing DH as I do, I don't think he'd do that. I improved his life in so many other ways & he didn't take that confidence & leave so based on past performance, I don't think he'd take increase sexual prowess & bestow it on anyone but me assuming he's straight. Obviously if he's in the closet, all bets are off. But there again, I'd feel better about getting an annulment. To @gaius 's point, there are valid reasons why he may not be willing to acknowledge that even to himself


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’m just going to throw this out there because it is a remote possibility and is easy to check. Is he expending his male “energy” on porn and masturbation? You could check by pulling logs out of your WiFi router, check his devices for evidence, or just run and see if the bathroom he just spent twenty minutes in smells (I offer this last one not to be gross but because it’s the simplest “is my man on porn” test). If he is a closet porn user- this is something that could be fixed in time. It’s a known fact that porn use causes ED in men. There’s tons of personal stories on here of lonely/ignored women replaced by porn and discover this “secret” years later. Best wishes and so sorry that you’re going through this.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

No porn. If that was the case I would at least have an answer.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> I try to be understanding about my husband's ED. I have accepted the fact that even with the drugs he just . . . can't. Our sex life wasn't great before marriage; we spent some time trying unsuccessfully to have a baby but honestly at this point I don't remember the last time we had sex. It has to be more than 3-4 years ago.
> 
> I convinced myself that I was being too pushy, demanding too much. On the rare occasion when I could get DH to talk about it, he'd promise more sex but look like I just killed his puppy when he would call himself defective.
> 
> ...


I think your husband and my husband were cut from the same cloth. I wish I had an answer. Just know you're not alone


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I am going to disagree with those that say the ED isn't behind his lack of non-penetrative intimacy.


This post needs to be a sticky. Wolfman has nailed it.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

@D0nnivain, how are things going? Have you had a serious (loving) talk with your husband about this at all?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

D0nnivain said:


> No porn. If that was the case I would at least have an answer.


Sorry to be so blunt, but this is an add to the information file, if you will....

Does he masturbate at all?
If he doesn't, to check on the depths of the ED, would you encourage him to try it, and see if he gets erect?

Sorry again, to be so blunt, a bit crass perhaps.

But the test may yield good info. Or if you've already tried, never mind.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

No we haven't talked recently. This has been an on-going issue but it's making me sadder. 

@Ragnar Ragnasson No he doesn't masturbate. I have asked about it in the past & he said no. I asked him to try in front of me. He did. Nothing happened. One of the last times we discussed this, he was in tears frustrated because he . . . couldn't. 

I know that he will probably never be able to achieve an erection. I'm trying to be OK with that. My frustration is that he won't do anything else.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> No we haven't talked recently. This has been an on-going issue but it's making me sadder.
> 
> @Ragnar Ragnasson No he doesn't masturbate. I have asked about it in the past & he said no. I asked him to try in front of me. He did. Nothing happened. One of the last times we discussed this, he was in tears frustrated because he . . . couldn't.
> 
> I know that he will probably never be able to achieve an erection. I'm trying to be OK with that. My frustration is that he won't do anything else.


I suffered from ED sometimes as aged and the humiliation is horrible. The mental reenforces the prpblem. Thinking "here is a beautiful woman next to me and cant respond." Resolved to leave no stone unturned. GP said T was normal FOR MY AGE. Urologist put me in TRT and problem solved. 

As far as using mouth and hands, can't imagine why your husband won't cuz I sure have. In my case, wife fine with those for foreplay but wants the real deal during encounter.

Wish knew how to prompt him to see Doctor and address the mental issues, which suspect issin isdue


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

D0nnivain said:


> No we haven't talked recently. This has been an on-going issue but it's making me sadder.
> 
> @Ragnar Ragnasson No he doesn't masturbate. I have asked about it in the past & he said no. I asked him to try in front of me. He did. Nothing happened. One of the last times we discussed this, he was in tears frustrated because he . . . couldn't.
> 
> I know that he will probably never be able to achieve an erection. I'm trying to be OK with that. My frustration is that he won't do anything else.


That's a really tough spot. There is much more mainstream discussions on other options, maybe something will keep him looking. It really sounds like you're doing as much as possible to be supportive. Persistence as you already know is what's left.

Kudos for hanging with it. Surely he's gone to vascular Drs, others?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> No we haven't talked recently. This has been an on-going issue but it's making me sadder.
> 
> @Ragnar Ragnasson No he doesn't masturbate. I have asked about it in the past & he said no. I asked him to try in front of me. He did. Nothing happened. One of the last times we discussed this, he was in tears frustrated because he . . . couldn't.
> 
> I know that he will probably never be able to achieve an erection. I'm trying to be OK with that. My frustration is that he won't do anything else.


Have you ever specifically told him you need INTIMACY and not necessarily sex...? If you did, what was his response?

I understand that he might have cringed away from any discussion about this, but you still need to be willing to make yourself and him uncomfortable (as gently as possible) in order to resolve this situation with him. You have a need for connection with him, and HE actually has that need as well (even if he is afraid to admit it), and most importantly, YOUR MARRIAGE needs the intimacy that sexual contact (not necessarily PIV) brings.

Another thing you could try would be to WRITE him a note about your feelings and needs to be intimate with him, and include some ideas that you could both try together to help you feel sexual and sexually close that don't include PIV.
Reading might be much less intimidating for him than an actual discussion, and he will have the chance to read everything you want to say before he responds. 

I don't believe you should let this go at all. It may take more effort on your part, but it's worth it to find a way to meet your sexual needs with him. Your marriage depends on it.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@D0nnivain ... please check your PM 😁


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Affaircare said:


> @D0nnivain ... please check your PM 😁


I'm SO happy you showed up!!!! 💜


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

I am in a long term sexless marriage (26 years) and my wife and I have visited a number of therapists without any luck. I can't perform sexually within a serious relationship due to childhood abuse which causes severe intimacy anxiety which means I am unable to get an erection or ejaculate. I am lucky my wife has accepted our situation and other than the sex the marriage is fine. Just keep in mind that without being able to have intercourse or have an orgasm makes sex stressful and unpleasant and in some cases no amount of therapy can help a situation like ours.


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