# The woman version of emasculation



## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I have been reading alot of posts on here where it is mentioned how much damage is done to a mans ego when his W has cheated on him and how he is emasculated.

What about woman? I was cheated on ALOT when I was young and my marriage in the early stages and it basicially did the same thing to me.

I was a girl that thought she was a good catch, I had alot of pride and self respect, I knew my worth. I was very attractive.

But after the multiple betrayals from my husband with sleazy almost hooker type woman I can tell you that I completely lost my self worth as a woman.It killed my self esteem.

I was a good girl, I belived in trust and honesty, in being faithful.I never even looked at other men and when men would hit on me I would shut them down fast. He should have been proud to have a wife like me.

But after all the years of lieing and cheating and resentment something changed in me. I should have left him years ago before I turned into this person, before I changed.

Everyone around me was a lieing cheater, it was almost normal.

I am a good girl gone bad.

I have cheated on my husband a few times now, but after all that he did to me I dont even consider it cheating. Its more like my well deserved right. The only difference between us is that the two affairs I have had were and are love affairs....long relationships that have lasted years. While he had a multitude of one night stands.

I stayed for the kids I guess and I know now that was not a good idea. I am and always have been the bread winner, the strong one, I pay the bills and take care of the kids...I should have left. But I was raised without my father and I wanted my kids to know theirs.

Now though I dont know who I am? I have lost myself along the way? I am working on divorcing my husband because I know this needs to happen. But I am hurting him everyday and I feel bad about it but I cant stop. He 20 years older than me and now that he is getting older he needs me more than ever.

Im 35 and my boyfriend is 23. I lie, I sneak around behind my H back. We live in a small town alot of people know what is happening. I hired my bf and he works with me. Everyone at work knows what is happening. They dont know my story and they probably think im a horrible person and maybe they are right.
My husband knows what is happening but he prefers to live in denial. I have told him a few times I want a divorce and talked to him about how loveless and un happy our marriage has always been....but he doesnt hear what I say...he doesnt want to...he needs me. We havent slept together in over 2 years almost 3.

I dont know if I will ever be able to have a healthy relationship because of the person I have become. I am very deceptive and sneaky now it has almost become second nature to me. I miss the inocent good girl that I used to be but I dont know if I will ever be a faithful partner again to anyone. My boyfriend want to marry me but I feel as though I have completely lost faith in marriage.

What do you think?


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I think you need to work on yourself. I'm not judging you but, you need to pick yourself up and be a better person for you. Good luck David


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Sorry, but you went from being your husband's daughter to now being another man's mother? I would strongly recommend psychotherapy for you.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

No one deserves to be cheated on....ever...no matter what they may have done.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> But I am hurting him everyday and I feel bad about it but I cant stop. He 20 years older than me and now that he is getting older he needs me more than ever.
> Im 35 and my boyfriend is 23. *I lie, I sneak around behind my H back. We live in a small town alot of people know what is happening. I hired my bf and he works with me. Everyone at work knows what is happening. They dont know my story and they probably think im a horrible person and maybe they are right.*


I think people is right, you are an horrible person. You know you are. With no qualifiers because you won't stop doping something it's wrong with no excuses.
The fact you despice and hate your husband doesn't change a thing nor make it any better. It's just the sh1t you sell yourself for being an horrible person. 
Nobody will respect you. Hiring your boytoy is... welll. It's an small town. News will get to your children, those you claim you love so much you stayed in an unhappy marriage for so long.

It's obvious you lost any sense of integrity, using some one else shortcomings or bad bahavior to excuse youself. Well, if you don't respect yourself do it for your children. They don't need to hear from anyone her mom is the sl0t cougar of the town.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I Dont see how a 12 year age gap makes me his mother? Really my parents were 10 years apart in age I dont think that is even the problem here. But thanks for your opinion.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I don't feel 'de - womanised'. But it certainly does shake you to the foundations and makes you reevaluate everything!
You really need to own your crap and sort your life out. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> I Dont see how a 12 year age gap makes me his mother? Really my parents were 10 years apart in age I dont think that is even the problem here. But thanks for your opinion.


You know what I think?

I think you're making excuses. Excuses for staying in an unhealthy relationship and excuses for your less than stalwart behavior.

If you let this cycle continue you're going to end up even more of a shadow.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

How old are your kids? 

You're boyfriend is old enough to know better. And so are you. You know that what you've been doing is not helpful. Not to you, to your bf, to your H, and really - not to your employees. 

Why don't you invest in some counseling for yourself. And set aside plenty of money for your kids therapy. I have a feeling you and your H didn't do them any favors by staying together for their benefit. 

You can come out of this being the kind of person you always wanted to be. But what you're doing now needs to stop.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

It's obvious you lost any sense of integrity, using some one else shortcomings or bad bahavior to excuse youself. Well, if you don't respect yourself do it for your children. They don't need to hear from anyone her mom is the sl0t cougar of the town.



Im not ****ting around Im with one guy.
Dont I also deserve to be happy? I have been un happy for so long taking care of him, everything has always been for him. 
As for my kids .....well that is where im most confused.

I want to do it the right way.....but I seem to be so wrong now.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You say that you feel sad about the person you've become, but you actually sound self-righteous.

Lots of people have bad things happen to them, but have the strength of character to not become what they have despised.

You had choices years ago. You could have left your H. Now you have a choice to live a respectable life, but you choose to do otherwise. I feel sorry for your children. They didn't ask to have role models like this.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> I am working on divorcing my husband because I know this needs to happen.
> I miss the innocent good girl that I used to be
> I don't know if I will ever be a faithful partner again to anyone.
> I feel as though I have completely lost faith in marriage.
> ...


What do I think? I think you've tried on your husbands 'cheating suit' and you hate the way it looks on you as much as you hated it on him, but you like the way it feels so you leave it on. Wait till you're pushing 50, you'll find that faithfulness again when the suit doesn't fit so good anymore.

*In the meantime, you're on the right track; divorce.*

_Note: You might as well marry the boyfriend, it won't be permanent; when he's 33 and you're 45, he'll leave you, and you'll be free again._

T


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> I Dont see how a 12 year age gap makes me his mother? Really my parents were 10 years apart in age I dont think that is even the problem here. But thanks for your opinion.


According to the experts, men are typically five years younger in maturation than their actual age - So he is really having the maturity level of an 18 year old, which makes you his 35 year old mother. The gap isn't really 12 years, it's 17. All I am trying to say is the same problems you had with your husband and the same ones you are giving him now...You are setting yourself up to get 17 times the trouble on that good ole karma bus.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> It's obvious you lost any sense of integrity, using some one else shortcomings or bad bahavior to excuse youself. Well, if you don't respect yourself do it for your children. They don't need to hear from anyone her mom is the sl0t cougar of the town.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Everyone deserves to be happy...but if you are THAT unhappy in your marriage, divorce your H before engaging in all the crap you have.


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## Kaya62003 (Jan 8, 2013)

I am not trying to judge, but REALLY? If you were not happy and your betrayed/wayward husband is cheating with "prostitute types" why stay? I feel very sorry for your children. Does dating a 23 year old make you feel empowered? You and your husband need to do your children a serious favor and DIVORCE. 

My husband has betrayed me, done irreversible damage to me and I would never cheat to seek revenge. You and him are in denial and I still feel so bad for your kids. What kind of message are you two teaching them? The tit for tat theory?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

You seriously think that a 12 year age gap is too big? Really? 
So what age gap is acceptible? Because this has not even been an issue ?

He is not 18 hes 23 so dont try to twist things.

If you want to hate on me go ahead, but use the facts dont invent things.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

End your marriage and start new. What kind of man wants a married woman. Wipe the slate clean and fix yourself. Take time away. You deserve more but please know that the OM is no different than your current H. Be smart the second time.


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## Kaya62003 (Jan 8, 2013)

idkwot2do said:


> You seriously think that a 12 year age gap is too big? Really?
> So what age gap is acceptible? Because this has not even been an issue ?
> 
> He is not 18 hes 23 so dont try to twist things.
> ...


How is anyone twisting anything? You said I am xx and I am dating a 23 year old.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@Kaya

To be completely honest I did not do this to get back at him, I truly didnt.

He cheated for many years and I did not do the same.

At the age of 30 something changed in me, I stopped needing him the way I always did and I allowed myself to be available to find some type of happiness I guess .
I thought everyone cheats and I guess I wanted to see what it was like, I didnt expect to find love and to discover that I was never being treated nice or being loved but that is what I learned.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

How is anyone twisting anything? You said I am xx and I am dating a 23 year old.

I was refering to the poster that said he is actually 18 in maturity.
That IS bs.

Hes 23 dont twist it.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

It would appear have a de facto open marriage (if what you have could honestly be called a marriage.)

If you're determined to stay in the situation, would it not be healthier for all concerned to be more honest about it?

(Not that I'm saying it's a good situation, but you asked for comments, and I'm looking for damage limitation options...)


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

As written, the relationship you have with this younger guy doesn’t sound very promising even if it wasn’t born from deception and the lies you tell your husband. I don’t know about anyone else but my maturity level between the ages of 23 and 25, let alone later were pretty different and I’m pretty sure it will continue to change as I reach my thirties and onwards. 

It doesn’t say much of your boyfriend in terms of morals to be sleeping with a married woman. It also doesn’t sound like you’re in the space to have a relationship and to continue the charade as anything but a fling and lead him on is unfair to him.

Normally I think people should fight for their marriage for the sake of the kids and once all of the relationship repairing efforts have been exhausted – then you’re free to divorce. In your case however, it sounds like divorce would be best. Your husband is a serial cheater and you have become what you once despised in your husband. You are not/did not do your kids any favours by staying married.

You say it yourself that you don’t know who you are. You certainly aren’t going to find it in other people. I think you need to do a lot of work on yourself because how you’re living now is not healthy for you and is setting a sh.tty example for your kids. Sorry for being brash but the way you've written about yourself and your life sounds like one big mess.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

The age gap isn't a problem now. It very well might be when you are a pre-menopausal late 40's and he is late 30's.

My stbxw is actively seeking a partner 12 - 15 years younger. Hey, more power to you if it makes you happy. Chances are, it won't last though. The odds are stacked against. When I was 23, could NOT see myself with an older lady of 35. I was concentrating on my own age demographic (at age 23, a mid 30's woman looked OLD). But when I was 35, I could definitely see myself being attracted to a woman like my stbxw at 48 because the gap narrows in middle age - a late 40's woman can look mid 30's. But when I was mid-40's definitely could NOT see myself with a late 50's wife - because the gap widens again as you get past middle age. This is all superficial based upon looks alone - Does this make sense?

There's a small window of opportunity for that age gap to work - just from a physical standpoint. You've found a guy who's really young (maybe he has a Mom complex) but it might work for a while. Until you start to look like his grandmother. 

I know this sounds terrible, but I don't think I'm too far from the norm for guys and besides, you need a wake-up call.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> My boyfriend want to marry me but I feel as though I have completely lost faith in marriage.
> 
> What do you think?


He can't legally marry you because you are married. Even if you get divorced, I don't think he should marry you. Marriages born out of affairs rarely work out.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Its a tough crowd around here, many have been burned by their wayward spouses (you know the feeling).

I wish I had some great words of wisdom, but no matter how mean folks can get I hope you can stick around and warn others how harmful an affair can be.

You never grew up wanting this and in hind sight you had a choice to leave this cheating POS of a man and now you have become just like him and hate your self for it.

I do suggest you stop everything and that includes your marriage and your * boy* friend...its time to regroup and find that women you once were. I think its time to face the hard consequences you have gotten your self into and gear down for a year until the divorce is final and your head clears.

Both men in your life aren't making you any better in fact were I'm sitting both guys are bringing out the worst in you. Its easy to see your old man is brought out the worst in you but your BF also isn't doing you any favors by having the moral compass that he has.

Its time to regroup without these men and find the women and a real *man* that has the moral compase to bring out the best in you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

That BF you have is not love, its a bandaid. 

Guys that sleep with married women are not guys you want to grow old with.

Please drop both these men! Fix your self and find that women you were once and want to be!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> My boyfriend want to marry me but I feel as though I have completely lost faith in marriage.
> 
> What do you think?


No, you didn't lose faith in marriage, you took it, chewed it up, spit it out, lit it on fire and then blew it up with an atomic bomb.

Your actions have led to to opinions you have on marriage. No one else.

Does your husband know you are in a full blown affair with someone 30 + years younger than him? Or does he just know you want a divorce and that's it?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

He's 23, a baby. And if he's going with a 35 yr old woman he's a dumba$$.

Dump you cheating husband, take care of your kids and find a good man.

Love is more than sex. Face it, you and your boy toy have zero in common once you get out of bed. Besides that, statistically you have no chance of maintaining a relationship with him. Affair partners just do not make it in marriage.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Op should have left that cheating POS years ago now she is one!

And not every one is lying and cheating, it just looks that way cuz your neck deep into an affair compined with never really healing form being on the other end of one.

Its like when you buy a car, suddenly you notice that same car all over town.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Please , people like you and your huband should not be raising kids. How is it going to affect them when the other classmates stat talking about moms boy toy. You already said its a small town and people know(that means you are a favorite in the gossip mill). Dump them both and become the mom and wife (to someone else) you can be.

BTW you owe your cheating lying husband squat.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Thank you for your opinions I appreciate them all.

To answer your questions - 
yes my H is aware of my relationship because I told him. But I try not to throw it in his face everyday thats why all the hiding.

Maybe you are right ....perhaps he is too young for me. It has not been an issue at all because we look the same age. but looking back I met my H when I was 19 and he was 39 and I was a baby and did not realise exactly what I was getting myself into.

As far as us having nothing in common but sex that is not true. He is very mature and we have alot in common on an intellectual level.
We laugh all the time, its always happiness...something I never had with my H.

I didnt really consider 12 years that big a gap...you have given me alot to think about, and maybe this would never work because of the way we have started.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I am not exactly like my husband -

He would sleep with diferent woman and then come home and sleep with me and pretend to be happy families and the whole neighbourhood knew what was going on except me.

I stopped sleeping with my H long before I slept with my BF.
And I am trying to communicate to my H that I dont love him and that I want a D. But he seems happy to live in denial and tries to make me feel guilty about the kids because I am his meal ticket.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

In my opinion, sexual rejection is de-womanizing in the same way that emasculation is for men. Nothing made me feel like more of a failure as a woman than my husband rejecting and neglecting me while favoring sex with someone else; I can forgive all the verbal abuse and deception, but this is what cut me the deepest. It's killed my very enthusiastic sex drive and utterly decimated my sense of confidence; I hope that those things will return one day. 

None of your past excuses your cheating. You should get a good therapist, though. It might help you get past some of your pain.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You still are not the women you want to be. You are still in a marriage that makes you un happy, You still question the current affair you are in. 
Grant your affair is a band aid you have that makes you happy for now, but lets look at the long run herer nad what will make you happy in the future.

I just think the current sitch your in now isn't working for you and until both these men are in the rearview mirror you cant find the women you once were.

I mean how healthy is it to sneak around with OM? how healthy is it for your kids to witness an unhealthy marriage ( they diserve a good examble of a healthy relationship or the cycle will continue.
How healthy is it to someone your not? 

You can do so much better for your self and your kids if you make the changes to get out of your current situation.


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## ManUp (Nov 25, 2012)

What do I think? You can justify anything all day long, but the truth is your bad behaviour is entirely your bad behaviour. You and your husband are both warped to think you each have the right to inflict the kind of nuclear hurt you're doing to each other. 

You know your behaviour is wrong. You know your children are learning about disposable relationships directly from you. And you know they will continue the cycle of self loathing, game playing and selfishness both you and your husband have started.

What you do to fix your lifestyle is entirely up to you.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

*Your cheating-husband’s behavior does not make you less of a woman rather it makes him less of a man.*

Read that statement again, you need to learn it, understand it and believe it and then find the good woman that you once were and be her again. She is there inside you and always has been; she is just clouded by a fog of pain.

Get help in dealing with your pain and move beyond it.


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## StoneAngel (Oct 10, 2012)

RightfulRiskTaker said:


> Sorry, but you went from being your husband's daughter to now being another man's mother? I would strongly recommend psychotherapy for you.


Oooh My

There is so much truth in your statement. For some reason the OP hasn't looked for an equal.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Does age mean equality?

So ALL of you out there must be within 5 years age difference with your partners? Is that what you are saying?

I agree that my H being 20 years older is a big gap and it seems to have gotten bigger but 12yrs? 

Is there anyone that thinks 12 years is not a problem?

I am shocked about all the age comments as noone has ever mentioned this in person. We look about the same age?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

He is willing to have sex with a married woman, he is willing to have sex with his boss to get ahead. That says a whole lot about his character. 

You both seem to have the same outlook on relationships, so it ought to be a very interesting and wild ride for both of you during the next few years.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> But after the *multiple betrayals from my husband with sleazy almost hooker type woman*...


Did he pay for those ONSs? I say because...


> I hired my bf and he works with me. Everyone at work knows what is happening.


You are "financing" you OM. What kind of man does that. What kind of woman does that?
But, Oh God, no!, your "case" is diferent. You fell in love with those men. Bull. Change that.


> I should have left him years ago before I turned into this person, before I changed.


Sure enough. The problem is not you are emasculated-female version. The problem is you became a serial cheater, with no shame. It's the worse thing happened to you, at your own handsd. You lost shame. You not only told "f0ck him2, you told "f0ck all". Change that.


> Everyone around me was a lieing cheater, it was almost normal.


Face the mirror. You are no different. Change that.


> I have cheated on my husband a few times now


What make me belive it's not the two times you talk later. It's way more.


> but after all that he did to me I dont even consider it cheating. Its more like my well deserved right.


Noboddy has the right to cheat. Cheating is not a "right" anybody possess. You can use whatever excuse you want to don't "consider" it cheating. Many, many cheaters consider themselves "divorced at their hearts". Bull. You are not special. You are describing entitlement. That's all.


> The only difference between us is that the two affairs I have had were and are love affairs....long relationships that have lasted years. While he had a multitude of one night stands.


So you are "better"? Most poeple would consider it way worse. love doesn' make it better, make it worse. Furthermore, long years cheating... Friend, sure enough you are a now lost soul. Change that. Choose the right path and start pitting a foot after the other. Choices.


> I stayed for the kids I guess and I know now that was not a good idea.


 It wasnt. But it's even worse to put them willingly, out of self gratification, in what you are putting them into. You can forget to be a good wife. You shouldn't forget to be a good mother. What kind of message do you believe they will get once all is out in the open? What kind of message they are going to get once they know step dad is a man/child living out his mom pocket? What kind of life you are forcing them to live with once people laugh at them due your poor choices? What are you teaching them? What are the lessons for the future, how they will conduct themselves when they are adults?


> Now though I dont know who I am? I have lost myself along the way?


Divorce you husband, drop OM, fire him. Take a time alone to think. Reagroup. You made choices everyday for years and years. You still have choices to make everyday.


> I dont know if I will ever be able to have a healthy relationship because of the person I have become. *I am very deceptive and sneaky now it has almost become second nature to me.* I miss the inocent good girl that I used to be but I dont know if I will ever be a faithful partner again to anyone.


Change that. It's about dayly, hourly choices, core values. Define them, commit to them, choose dayly. Everybody can. You can too.


> My boyfriend want to marry me but I feel as though I have completely lost faith in marriage.


Please, don't, what a disaster. Digging the crave even deeper?


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

^ I'm shocked that you focus more on the age of your affair partner, rather than the affair itself. 

Its wrong, you know its wrong, but you don't care.

No matter the circumstances, number of times, etc. Both of you had affairs, both of you rationalize them away and don't end them.

Therefore that puts you in the same mud pit as him. Both of you are the same. 

If this is where you want to be and the example to set for children(when things are bad in a marriage don't divorce with integrity, just have an affair that will only make things worse)

then continue.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I am not financing OM first of all .....I hired him because I could but I do not pay his check and I do not own the company.

I agree with everything else you said.

I am a very confused person and I want to do whats right I just have lost sight of what is right.

23 is a man child? I was not aware of that.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I have been trying to get a divorce.....but my situation is even more complicated as I have not explained the living situation in depth it would take too long.

I left my husband about 2 years ago...and we were seperated but when I left him he moved onto the beach like a homless man and acted as if he would die. He is good at the guilt trips and they got to me so I took him back. He cant survive on his own. If he would just man up and agree that this would be better if we divorced and atleast try to be look after himself and be ok then I would leave and move out tomorrow.

I am feeling very stuck and you are right I am digging my hole even deeper and dragging my kids along as well.


@Kasler - I am not focusing on OM age all the posters are and I am very surprised by that.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

idk,

So you have a 20 year gap with your H... Were you looking for a father figure? Someone that would take care of you? Now you have a lover who is 23... A boy toy... You are a cougar I guess... 

Your husband went after someone 20 years younger as sort of a trophy wife I assume... You have a boy toy as a trophy because your low life husband made you think you were not worth something...

Obviously you are here for a reason. Something is not right. I am going to be simply honest. Your whole married life is not right. You met a 20 year old man when you were a baby. Yes 18, 19 is a baby for an adult... (Metaphor) Your boy toy is a baby (Also a metaphor)...

I don't know if you have problems connecting with someone your own age... It seems you need to be in a relationship where there is a clear Master or person in charge... There seems to be no equality in your relationship.

Your H is really a piece of work. He is a low life, but you accept it and I don't know why. You let him treat you like you aren't special. You are his wife and you should demand the respect you deserve. Instead of doing that. You did what he did and what that did is bring you down to his low life level.

You are lost or confused because you know your life is wrong. It's wrong because you let someone treat you with such disrespect. You think the best way to deal with it is to treat him as such and 'get him back' while satisfying your own desires to feel loved and wanted.

I suggest before you do anything. Your first step is to confront your POS H. Deal with him and get a D. Work on yourself. Become a great mom and someone to be loved and respected and you will find someone who loves and respects you.

I am also going to tell you that your relationship with your boy toy is superficial. He finds it fun because he is getting sex and he does not have to do the heavy lifting that a true H would do. You are an easy mark, but someone who would be with a married woman has no morals and you are just how should I say 'fun'.... for now...


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> If he would *just man up* and agree that this would be better if we divorced and atleast try to be look after himself and be ok then I would leave and move out tomorrow.


Yeah, that's the problem... just man up. Amazing.

I wonder who's "emasculating" whom here.

T


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Idkwot2do:

Your situation reminded me of something one of my favorite comedians said:
"I don't want to belong to a club that would accept people like me as a member." (Groucho Marx)

You should paraphrase that sentiment to:
_
"I don't want to marry a man who would accept having an affair with someone like me" _


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@Tony55 - Sorry if ''man up'' is offending.
But really I have been supporting him forever. And he screwed up the marriage long before I ever did but hes happy to sit around in self pity now and he expects me to live this un happy lie forever so that he doesnt have to get a job and for once in his life be a man and take some responsibility? 
We could divorce and be civil to each other for the kids sake...we are both wrong and I can accept that so why cant he? 
Why cant he finally help me to do whats right?
yes Amazing.

@ Moving ahead - Perhaps you got it exactly right except I didnt need OM as a trophy I thought he was older, at first he lied to me about his age and said he was 30.
He knew who I was before I knew who he was and he pursued me and he already knew my age and that is why he lied.
And I am not trying to get H back for what he did to me. His betrayal did deeply affect me but I am just trying to find happiness.
My R with OM is not superficial he is not using me for sex as you put it.
He is more serious than I am...he constantly talks to me about wanting to get married but I avoid that subject with him because im not sure I ever want to be married again.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

How old are your kids?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

You can't get married until you are divorced. Is OM pushing you to divorce your H or just mentions marriage?

He lied to you about his age to begin with? Who lies about such a basic fact like age? Doesn't sound like OM has very good honesty skills either and just wants to tell you what he thinks you want to hear to keep the sex and whatever else he is getting from the relationship going.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Well I guess you can take it how ever you want and yes he wants me to divorce.

OM has proven himself to me time and again and its not all about sex.

I have lived through the biggest deceptions...I have been played by the biggest player...do you really think I can be deceived that easily now?

I have learned some hard lessons in my 10 year marriage of lies.

I am not being used by OM and that I know for sure.

I am afraid that perhaps I am using him to escape my un happiness
and I know you will all beat me up for saying that.

I do love him though...but I am very confused and he is moving to fast.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

I think you're actually worse than your husband because you're doing the same thing, yet feel and say that you are entitled to such behavior. 

At least he knew he was a sleaze.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> I think you're actually worse than your husband because you're doing the same thing, yet feel and say that you are entitled to such behavior.
> 
> At least he knew he was a sleaze.



The fog is strong in this one. 

For all you say about OM hes still a piece of sh!t who goes after married women. 

I can only hope he doesn't do the same to you afterwards.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

The best outcome for you is to divorce your husband, because as you say, he's manipulative, a cheat, and you owe him not a thing. Let him live on the beach. Why do you care?

Then you can marry that sweet adorable and honorable man. You deserve him. And more important he deserves someone exactly like you.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@Whitemouse - You assume too much.

Actually no he didnt know he was a sleaze.

He still thinks hes an angel.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@walkonmars - You sound bitter....I am sorry for what ever has made you that way.

I didnt say I want to marry OM , I dont think I will ever get married again.

I dont really know what I want.

I do care about my H because he is the father of my children.
and I want him to be ok when we D.

I just want him to realise that he would eventually be happier if we D. We all would.

OM deserves someone better than me BTW but thanks for your opinion on that.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> @Tony55 - Sorry if ''man up'' is offending.
> But really I have been supporting him forever. And he screwed up the marriage long before I ever did but hes happy to sit around in self pity now and he expects me to live this un happy lie forever so that he doesnt have to get a job and for once in his life be a man and take some responsibility?
> We could divorce and be civil to each other for the kids sake...we are both wrong and I can accept that so why cant he?
> Why cant he finally help me to do whats right?
> ...


Didn't you say you were his employer? He researched you and lied to you? I would marry you too so that by the time I'm 35, I can get money for nothing and the chicks for free.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

OP,

I have glazed through the posts and here are my observations. First it is not that your boyfriend is 23 it is that 23 is very, very, very young compared to what your level of maturity should be or anyone in their 30's. I know he is likely mature for his age right?

Look your husband is a cad and no one here is going to deny that. You need to understand the mentality of this site. 99.9% of the people here despise infidelity. They have good cause because most have lived it. 98% of the members here despise those that have affairs because their partners have had one. 

I have noticed a growing trend in posts over this weekend and that is people coming to this forum to validate their poor decisions to a group of individuals that abhor those types of decisions. To make it worse I notice that the OP's want to engage for days to try to make everyone see their side so they will be better.

You will have a tough go getting a consensus of support for what you are doing. Be prepared to take more heat if you continue to defend your position but you will win very few "hearts and souls". 

I genuinely feel for you but believe your best course of action is to cut the boyfriend loose. He is not the last man on earth. Get some counseling. Find your way back to solid ground because you are not on it currently. Kick your husband out. He wasted his chance with you and deserves nothing. 

I do wish you well but the course you are on is not likely to bring much happiness IMHO.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@Rightfulrisktaker - You really should read the post before you reply if I have to keep repeating everything this will be a long one.

I got him hired, Im not his employer...I dont pay his checks and I dont own the company.

Do you understand or do I need to simplify it some more?


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

RClawson said:


> You will have a tough go getting a consensus of support for what you are doing. Be prepared to take more heat if you continue to defend your position but you will win very few "hearts and souls".


I want to register my support for her. Her husbands testosterone is probably depleting, life sucks for him right now, he played her when he cheated on her and he's playing her now when he's feeling like crap about life.

She on the other hand, learned that when your thirty-something you cheat (the lasting effects of her oh-so-wise husband when she was young), and she's continuing the tradition.

The 23 year old, (you know, the guy who has his sh1t together and chases the pre-cougar), won't be around long, he'll wise up, and when he does, he'll run, (probably for an actual cougar), and trade up, to someone more stable (another married woman).

I think the OP deserves her freedom. I think the OP's husband probably needs to visit his doctor.

T


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@Tony55 - You must be the jilted spouse because your just a mans man so I will completely ignore your opinion as biased.


What is a cougar?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

How old are the children?

You can be forgiven of all - like the Biblical David who lied, cheated, and even murdered. You can have a clean heart and be a woman after God's heart. David wrote Psalm 51 "A psalm of David. When the prophet Nathan came to him after David had committed adultery with Bathsheba."

IMO, God wants parents to put their children's well being very high on their priority list. If their Dad is good to them, repent of your unfaithfulness, stay with him and make it work. In a way, you and he are a matched set.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Omg, your poor children being taught by your example on how to behave in a relationship and marriage.

Ok, hubby is a bad person.

Your actions are no better, in fact they are worse because you've seen his example and how awful it is and you jumped in and followed it,

Look at each of your kids. If they brought home a SO home like you what would you advise them to do? I'm thinking you'd tell them to dump that person snd upgrade to someone loving and trust worthy.
as for your 23 yr old, what kind of loser 23 yr old is dating a marred mom cheater with kids.? His desperate is he that he would hook up with a. Woman with that much drama and baggage ?

Advice? STOP cheating, you are not doing the right thing by yourself or your children having an affair.

You want to divorce your husband. Ok, divorce him, but stop cheating,

You are not entitiled to behave this way. No one is.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

idkwot2do said:


> I am not being used by OM and that I know for sure.
> 
> .


Mrs.the-guy has been there and I have to say i agree with you, that yes infact you are not being used by OM. In these case its the wayward wife that is doing the using.

I abused my WW and I know a bandaid when I see one, and you girl found your self a bandaid. OM and you were both at the right time at the right place and if it wasn't this kid it would have been someother guy.

You said it earlier , you and OM got together for the wrong reasons. You need to find a man that sees the better you, not the bad you. 

Not only is this marriage wrong but this affair is wrong....reread your original post to this thread. You are not happy with your self no matter how happy this kids makes you!

You need to get out and regroup, finding a healthy relationship were no one is being used either way.

You got used and now you are using and as long as your happy for now you can't see the future.

Maybe I'm just some stranger far awy from your deal but sometimes thats what it takes to hear from a complete stranger you sees what he sees.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@ Blonde - No we are not a matched set and how do you figure its good to stay together for the children?


You really are blonde arent you.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@ Theguy - You are right and I agree with every word. I am not happy with myself of course im not. I never dreamed of my life turning out like this and when I got married I didnt picture this to be the out come. And I know OM is not right for me or my children and I agree that while I am happy now its hard to look at the future. I am not happy now tho I have a deep seated sadness in my soul for my kids , my H and myself and I just want to move ahead to a brighter day im am so very tired of the darkness.




I Apologise for being rude to some posters but I feel that some people are being over judge mental without even really reading the posts.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

A cougar is an older woman who chases a younger man to feel 'more alive'... like....You.

You seem like you are waiting for some person to tell you something you want to here, but it just hasn't happened yet. You might be able to hear but you don't listen.

You have been given the advice you need. Your current H seems like a POS. You should either reconcile with him or D. For you I would probably D. Grandpa doesn't seem like he has his act together and seems like a philanderer.

You have children. Who is going to teach them right from wrong? Your H? You? Who will be their role model?

Ok, you were not dealt the best hand. There is my sympathy. Too bad. Life is not fair and anyone who tells you different is selling something. You are really setting a bad example. You are being spineless. File the papers. Start the D. If you want to reconcile, ok... If not cut your H loose.

I know you are enjoying the attention of your boy toy. You are stringing him along nicely. Any man who will be with a married woman is really a POS. i'm sorry but your little man is a little man...

I want you to imagine this conversation. Your child is at school talking to a friend and they talk about their weekend and how their dad is banging some older chick... Older than you but only 10 years or so, and they discuss you banging your boy toy. They your child says hey I was thinking about getting with the Janitor hes 32 and has a car a cool Ford Pinto and I'm almost 15 so they are only 17 years older than me. Your child's friend says... 'Wow that is really screwed up, and your child in a serious straight face says' What is screwed up about it??'

You have no compass. You have no moral values and the life you are leading is really not healthy for your H, for you, your boy toy, and especially your kids...

Get clear of the mess. Get your house in order. One piece at a time. Hell, you have so many moving parts pick one.... H, boy toy, kids... 

Stop looking for someone to side with you. What you are doing is wrong on so many levels you really need help! You have been given it, but you only heard the words, you haven't listened.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

idkwot2do said:


> @ Blonde - No we are not a matched set and how do you figure its good to stay together for the children?
> 
> 
> You really are blonde arent you.


You and your present husband have a matched history at this point. You both need forgiveness.

You still did not state the ages of the children and don't seem to be considering what is best for them. You will share them for life so every graduation, wedding, etc...

But, suit yourself, it's your life...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Girl I am the worst of the worst...I make your old man look good.. I know what you are doing and in ten year you won't like what you have become ....hell you already know that! Sh1t if you could only see were this is leading you would stop it all right now.

What I did to Mrs. the-guy was criminal, and what she did to exscape was just as distructive. Girl you are snow balling and this is just a start. Once this kid is gone your next step will lead you down a darker path.

Mrs. the guy went for 13 years of hell as I slapped her around and she slept around....its just a very bad path you are heading down...I can see it, We have been there and I have spent days talking to Mrs. the-guy about the exact same thing you are dealing with now. 

Its time to make a change! Its not a healthy way to deal with a sh1tty marriage. You diserve to be the best mom for your kids and putting bandaid after bandaid for this crappy marriage is not the right path.

I don't know what else to say .... your old man phucket you over I phucked my chick over the both of you never grow up thinking that having an affair was what you wanted but yet you and my chick went down that road only to regret it year from now...well in your case your regret will come later if you don't make the change now.

Geeze you already regret it ...go back and reread your orginal post!!!!

My advice, stop being used by your old man, stop using that kid as a bandaid, start finding that girl that never in a million years thought she would be in an affair... I don't give a damb if your old man knows about it and is deniel...what your doing to your self is emotionaly unhealthy..period!


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

My kids are 12 and 9.

I am listening.

I have learned alot today.

I am not a cougar....I didnt chase him he chased me and I didnt think twice about the age until today and I didnt even realise at 36 im an older woman.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

News flash... You are a cougar. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar_(slang)

I don't care if he lead the chase... So what. He probably thinks of you as Stiffler's Mom... or MILF #1, Maybe like the movie Harold and Maude...

You need to stop with him. Now you hired him and he works for the company you work with.... Never dip your pen in the company ink...

I'm sorry but you are not grounded in reality. You want the Tooth Fairy to wave a magic wand and straighten all the pieces of your life out... It's time to clear the board. Knock the pieces off the board. Be a better mom. Treat your kids the way they should be and deal with the rest. Do what is best, not what is easy or expedient. Your near path will take a lot of hard work. Don't shirk from it and pick something to start with. How about H. Cut him loose or Reconcile.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

When I was going thru this crap my kids were the same age.

Geeze now you got me ranting. LOL

It sucks, looking at my chick now and seeing what she went thru, and the bad choices she made. Hell for hwta it worth you gotta look at what you were and what you have become and sure it was your choice but these to guys didn't stop for one second to think about what they are doing... God I can;t believe I am actually defending you in some crazy @ss way.. IDK

I see my oldlady in you.. I didn't screw around on her but slapping and throwing her arouns wasn't good. 

I guess in my old age I see alot of my old marrige in yours. Please excuse my passion for getting so worked up!

You can always tell when I get worked up my spelling goes to sh1t.LOL


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> *Your cheating-husband’s behavior does not make you less of a woman rather it makes him less of a man.*
> 
> Read that statement again, you need to learn it, understand it and believe it and then find the good woman that you once were and be her again. She is there inside you and always has been; she is just clouded by a fog of pain.
> 
> Get help in dealing with your pain and move beyond it.


Pain does cloud one's judgment. There's something else about being so intimately betrayed, though. Trust is such a personal thing and to have someone earn it and then trash it is deeply painful to the core, sometimes. In a lot of ways, logic doesn't dictate these sorts of feelings. Logic says that the cheater's broken morality caused the behavior, but in the loss of control and sense of reality, it is somehow easier to deal with turning inward for some people; place the blame on the self and it's less frightening, less disempowering. Those who have been betrayed do know that the fault lies within the cheater. However, most of us cannot help but internalize the social messages embedded within our culture, that a worthy woman will inspire a man's loyalty and that his loyalty is a reflection of her beauty, or that a powerful man will inspire a woman's loyalty and that her loyalty is a reflection of his prowess. These are problematic ideas and I do not believe them to be true, but the messages carried within most movies, fairytales, stories, songs, and other forms of media really do reinforce those sorts of concepts and whether or not we consciously believe them, some element of that idea shows up embodied and salty, ready to jab at the wound inflicted by a broken intimate trust.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

@Moxy, your saying that OP never dealt with her own betrayal by her WH and is now justifying her revenge affair?


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> I have been trying to get a divorce.....but my situation is even more complicated as I have not explained the living situation in depth it would take too long.
> 
> I left my husband about 2 years ago...and we were seperated but when I left him he moved onto the beach like a homless man and acted as if he would die. He is good at the guilt trips and they got to me so I took him back. He cant survive on his own. If he would just man up and agree that this would be better if we divorced and atleast try to be look after himself and be ok then I would leave and move out tomorrow.


The best thing you can do for him is NOT enable his dependence on you. Let him go. Let him sort his life out for himself. He won't actually die. Does he have a job? Does he have any friends? Any chance you can set him up in a cheap apartment and give him a budget that he might be able to follow -- you know, to ease your conscience about his fiscal incompetence, etc -- and then let him go?

If you really don't want to be married to him, you are doing him NO favors by keeping him around and keeping him dependent, which is exactly what's happening because you're enabling him to be a mooch. If you really want to be with someone else, then please let this guy go and get on with your own life and let him get on with his. Cheating is NOT noble. And you're not entitled to a free pass to cheat just because you see yourself as taking care of an incompetent bufoon who can't take care of himself. I bet that if he had no other choice, he'd figure out how to stand up on his own two feet.

Things are NEVER as complicated as they seem. It always comes down to this: 1) you want to stay together exclusively, or 2) you don't want to stay together exclusively. If it's the second one for you, for whatever your reasons, make sure your husband knows he's in an open marriage. If he doesn't agree to that, then you have to let him go, period, and try to live by a little more decency than sneaking around and cheating. I'm sure you don't feel very good about yourself. It wasn't your fault that your husband cheated on you. And you're not a better person by evening the score. Just walk away from the toxic mess!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

idkwot2do said:


> @ Blonde - No we are not a matched set and how do you figure its good to stay together for the children?
> 
> 
> You really are blonde arent you.


Um, let's not insult blonds. You know that's a stereo type and as such is untrue. I'm blond.. this offends me. I am so sick of blond jokes and such put down. Being blond does not make one stupid.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> @Moxy, your saying that OP never dealt with her own betrayal by her WH and is now justifying her revenge affair?


Yes. I think that she feels so broken by what's happened that she feels entitled to fix herself this way. Unfortunately, revenge cheating won't help her fix things within herself and it won't restore the damage that he has caused to the relationship or that she is causing to the relationship.

OP should accept that even though she feels broken, she isn't. She can CHOOSE to be a better person than this. She doesn't have to be defined by her husband's actions, even if they make her feel like crap. And she might be justifying her behavior by playing the victim, but however she is labeling the situation, it's wrong and toxic -- to her, to her kids, to the illusion/sham of a marriage in which she is living now. She can have, for herself, a more authentic life by letting go of this veneer of nobility and justification and self-entitlement that is based on problematic premises.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Sorry to argumentitive here must I must disagree

I looked up ''Cougar''.....and according to the translation it is an older woman who actively seeks out younger men for sexual realations.

I didnt seek him out..he sought me out
I thought he was 30....he didnt tell me his real age until about a month later 
we look the same age and no one has questioned the age gap at work.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MovingAhead said:


> A cougar is an older woman who chases a younger man to feel 'more alive'... like....You.


I married a guy 7 years younger than me. Does that make me a cougar?  

Many men date and marry guys 12 years younger. It's actually a very common age difference where the female is younger.

So it's bad if a woman is the older one? 

Can you please show me the rule book so I know what guy I can date now that I'm single again? Please?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ok your not a cuogar, but you are in a very unhealthy relationship....I mean relationships!


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> Sorry to argumentitive here must I must disagree
> 
> I looked up ''Cougar''.....and according to the translation it is an older woman who actively seeks out younger men for sexual realations.
> 
> ...


If you keep arguing about the label, you can't deal with the truth it contains. Ignore the technicality and look at what the idea behind the word is. 

You're with someone who is much younger than you. This person is probably not your emotional or intellectual peer. (My POV here is not solely based on age, but on other things you've mentioned herein.) There is a reason for this discrepancy. Either it makes you feel good to have a trophy boy or you don't feel worthy of someone better. Which is it? Figuring it out will help you better integrate Mr Young Man into your life and help you move Mr Cheating husband out of your life. And, it will help you figure out what it is you actually want so you can be at peace with it in the long run. 

Who cares if you are or aren't actually a by-the-book cougar? What you're hearing is how people see you based on your own descriptions of things; instead of justifying, be open-minded and listen to what is being noticed. You don't have to accept everything, but, as no one on this forum stands to gain a thing by the outcome of your situation, why not realize that maybe they might have something to say that's worth listening to because it has no hidden agenda? 

Just my two cents on that issue.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

There are a few folks here that are so focused on age , but rather you can do so much better then being with a husband that turns a blind eye to you infidelity so he can mooch off your income and some kid that wants a fantasy instead of a real relationship were the both of you don;t have to hide.

Girls.. simple put both your relationsips are unhealthy no matter the age difference!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

ok maybe the kids doesn't want to hide you but you know damb well you are hiding him...now thats not healthy.

You guys could be the same age and even a uneducated guy like my self can see it not healthy for you!

and experience can tell me that your marriage ain't no better!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

idkwot2do,

I can understand why you started cheating. When I found out about my husband's affairs I had such an urge to cheat. It felt like that was the only thing that would being back my feeling that I was a desirable woman. Like you said the affairs have a ways of efeminizing (is that a word?) women. 

Sometimes I think that I might actually be in a better place today had I cheated in response to his affairs. Then the other part of me slaps my in the head and tells me I’m nuts… I’m better off not having done so. So who knows?

You are a young woman, so no, you are not a cougar. You are not even old enough to be called that.

You are where you are today. What you need to decide is the way you want to lead the rest of your life. I would think that you want to lead it with integrity. So that means deciding if you will stop cheating and be a faithful wife from here on out. Or will you divorce your husband and find someone who can be honest and loving.

Your marriage is so damaged that I think divorce and starting over is your best bet. But I don’t know you heart or your entire situation.

If you choose to leave, your husband is a big boy who can take care of himself. Your relationship with this other guy as about a 3% chance of lasting very long once you leave your husband. So be prepared to start over. Starting over could be a very good thing in your circumstance. 

I hope you find your way to being who you really want to be and to finding a loving relationship.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Maybe I am immature or maybe he is mature for his age...but we rally do get along on an intellectual level. We talk alot and he is very opinonated and smart. 
I never really had this with my H, he never listend to me , he was never interested in anything I was interested in or had to say he was always interested in his small town fame and his friends and he never dreamed of the future the way I did.

OM puts me first, before his friends, before his family , he has shown me an unconditional love I have never known.

But maybe you are all right the age might be a problem that until today I did not think about.

I know this is al unhealthy...I should not even be in this R until I am divorced.

It has all happend so fast and I guess I needed someone to be there for me.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@ Ele - Thank you I dont feel old infact I still feel young but all these posts about my age was starting to make me wonder.

I am sorry to hear about your H and hope you also can find a good man. This whole situation has made me lose faith in marriage but I have not lost faith in the fact that I believe there are alot of good men in the world.

I do chose Divorce...I cannot even consider staying and wasting away more years living a lie.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

idkwot2do said:


> Maybe I am immature or maybe he is mature for his age...but we rally do get along on an intellectual level. We talk alot and he is very opinonated and smart.
> I never really had this with my H, he never listend to me , he was never interested in anything I was interested in or had to say he was always interested in his small town fame and his friends and he never dreamed of the future the way I did.
> 
> OM puts me first, before his friends, before his family , he has shown me an unconditional love I have never known.
> ...


There are two reasons that I think that age difference counts... and it has nothing to do with "cougar-ness".

One reason is that men who marry before the age of 30 have a very high divorce rate. The human brain does not even completely mature until age 26. So he might be a completely different person in a very few years.

The other reason is some study I read about recently that when a man marries a younger woman (15 or more years younger) it seems to add several years to his life. The researches attributed this to the younger wife putting a lot of energy into nurturing her older husband. Thus with a loving care taker he lives longer.

The researchers found that when a woman marries a man younger than she by about 15 years it seems to actually shorten her life span by several years. The researchers felt that this was due to the younger husband not being very nurturing and taking of his older wife when she falls ill or weaker as she ages.

So it seems that the older wife, younger husband, marriage is ok until the wife really needs her husband to care for her. Something to ponder.

(I'm still waiting by the way to find out if I'm a cougar since my husband was 7 years younger. I guess the jury is still out.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

idkwot2do said:


> @ Ele - Thank you I dont feel old infact I still feel young but all these posts about my age was starting to make me wonder.
> 
> I am sorry to hear about your H and hope you also can find a good man. This whole situation has made me lose faith in marriage but I have not lost faith in the fact that I believe there are alot of good men in the world.
> 
> I do chose Divorce...I cannot even consider staying and wasting away more years living a lie.


You are 35. I am 63. You bet you are young. I did not even have my first child till I was 40. He turned 24 yesterday. 

I hate this nonsense about any woman who goes out with a younger guy is somehow wrong to do so.

A few weeks ago one of my step-daughter's friends was making an obvious pass at me... he's 35. What do you think most people would say to a 63 years old guy who had a 35 year old making a pass at him... they'd tell him to go for it. But if I went for it... yikes!!!! I'd be a EEK.. COUGAR :rofl:


(and no I did not go for it… he was not my type. But had he been.. who knows…. )


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You are 35. I am 63. You bet you are young. I did not even have my first child till I was 40. He turned 24 yesterday.
> 
> I hate this nonsense about any woman who goes out with a younger guy is somehow wrong to do so.
> 
> ...


Just a comment Elegirl. Being 63 and having a husband 7 years younger is not nearly so big a gap as being mid to late 30s and having a bf who could be a college senior.

To your question, what would I say? You must be a hot 63 year old  I have seen more than a few. (Older women really are the best. /wink)


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Ok so if he was 28 instead of 23 that would be ok?

I think its a bunch of BS

You just want to hate...so go ahead make my day.

Im over it....you guys are too much, OM age is not the point of this thread.:sleeping:


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> You just want to hate...so go ahead make my day.


Chill out. No one on this forum wants to "hate". In general, you'll find some fairly intelligent and thoughtful people on this forum who tend to reflect on a person's situation before offering an opinion. There is no reason to generalize in this way.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> Do you understand or do I need to simplify it some more?


you are clear here - here's what I get a kick out of....women who tell men to "man up" like they are some sort of machine..

Did it ever occur to you that your husband might need you for emotional support - i mean, is that not the concept of marriage? I bet you are pouring emotional support all over that new young boyfriend of yours..thus betrayal...

it reeks of coldness and thus could be the reason why husband is so distant from you..... 

here's a thought - "woman up".


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

OK I'll bite on this one.

idkwot2do: Regardless of whether your AP is too young for you, or whether you two are soulmates and age doesn't matter, the obvious fact is that your marriage is beyond repair. End it.

You've little to no love or sympathy for your husband other than pity. Since that's the case, all of the other concerns have to take second place. 

Divorce is the responsible thing to do. Once you're out of the marriage for good, then you can see whether all those feelings that you have for this guy now are for real.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

idkwot2do said:


> @Whitemouse - You assume too much.
> 
> Actually no he didnt know he was a sleaze.
> 
> He still thinks hes an angel.


Says you. 

And you also said this: 



idkwot2do said:


> I have cheated on my husband a few times now, but after all that he did to me I dont even consider it cheating. Its more like my well deserved right.


So... your standing in perception is highly dubious. You're not in a position to give any kind of accurate assessment of yourself, so why should anyone believe you can give accurate assessments of others? 

No, I think my logic is just fine.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I married a guy 7 years younger than me. Does that make me a cougar?


Yes. An extremely yummy one.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

@idkwot2do

You already know the right thing to do. You just seem to be waiting for husband to "make you do the right thing."

But you are the only one on the planet who is responsible for what you do. Don't wait on him. And this OM thing? I'd say you are just sabotaging yourself hoping your H gets disgusted and takes the initiative to leave you. Cut that out, it's destructive to both of you. 

Look up divorce laws in your state, talk to a lawyer and figure out how the marital property is
Likely to be divided. Legally separate and boot him out with his fair share. Dump the OM and focus on your kids. This will help in a couple ways. First, it will help if H suddenly finds his balls and fights for custody (judge may take a dim view of you running around like a s1ut). Secondly, it will clear your head. The OM might be a fun lay, but he pursued a married woman with kids. He doesn't sound like he would make a quality life partner.

So, stop waiting on outside influences and get out of this death spiral of destruction you are in.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> OM puts me first, before his friends, before his family , *he has shown me an unconditional love I have never known.*


Add to the above quote the following:

"I do love him though..*.but I am very confused* and he is moving to fast."
"I didnt say I want to marry OM ,* I dont think I will ever get married again*."
"*And I know OM is not right for me*"
I think you've got two men you need to be up front with, the depressed, cheating, 50 something husband, and the young, infatuated, 23 year old. Tell one it's over, and the other this is just a fling. Honesty is the best policy, right?

Idkwot2do, your name implies that you don't know what to do. You've come to a site for advice from people who have been in similar situations, yet, when people make suggestions, you lash out at them, sending mixed messages to them... is that what you're doing with your husband and lover, sending them mixed messages? What I'm hearing you say here is, help me, but shut-up.

You also stated that you didn't pursue the other man, that he pursued you, but in your post you stated:
_"At the age of 30 something changed in me, I stopped needing him the way I always did and I allowed myself to be available to find some type of happiness I guess .
I thought everyone cheats and I guess I wanted to see what it was like, I didnt expect to find love and to discover that I was never being treated nice or being loved but that is what I learned."​_So you were obviously available to the other man, whether you want to call that pursuing him or not is debatable. It is what it is.

Some of us are trying to get you to see things more clearly, some through shock, some with sarcasm, all with good intentions. I think you need to scrutinize some of these responses a little more closely, and try to glean the wisdom in the posts and not be too quick to pounce.
_(Pounce... Cougar pun intended, sorry, I couldn't help myself on that one)_

;-)
T


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

Tony55 said:


> What do I think? I think you've tried on your husbands 'cheating suit' and you hate the way it looks on you as much as you hated it on him, but you like the way it feels so you leave it on. Wait till you're pushing 50, you'll find that faithfulness again when the suit doesn't fit so good anymore.
> 
> *In the meantime, you're on the right track; divorce.*
> 
> ...


That's such a double standard. Men marry women 12 years younger all the time.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Enchanted said:


> That's such a double standard. Men marry women 12 years younger all the time.


No, that's a reproductive standard. An older man goes after a younger woman because her physical attractiveness is at its height and because she many more child-bearing years. A older woman goes after a younger man because her body is in use-it-or-lose-it mode reproductively, and younger men have a greater sexual appetite, lower refractory period and higher sperm motility, on top of which they tend to be much less picky about sexual partners so they show greater sexual interest in an older woman than a man her own age, who recognizes instinctually that her best days are behind her reproductively.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> What do I think? I think you've tried on your husbands 'cheating suit' and you hate the way it looks on you as much as you hated it on him, but you like the way it feels so you leave it on. Wait till you're pushing 50, you'll find that faithfulness again when the suit doesn't fit so good anymore.
> 
> In the meantime, you're on the right track; divorce.
> 
> Note: You might as well marry the boyfriend, it won't be permanent; when he's 33 and you're 45, he'll leave you, and you'll be free again.





Enchanted said:


> That's such a double standard. Men marry women 12 years younger all the time.


Explain to me exactly what's "double standard" in my post.

T


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

idk,

You have been told the same thing over and over. Your relationships are horrible. You probably need to end your marriage.

I might be overgeneralizing here. When a man who is 39 goes after a girl who is 19, that is a conquest... There is a reason he is 39 and single... You didn't get the Creme de la creme here.

You keep getting into the weeds, hung up on details that are not important instead of facing your issues.

Extirpate your Cranium from Uranus and deal with your H. I think marriage is great but in your case I would have to say he needs to go.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> I have been reading alot of posts on here where it is mentioned how much damage is done to a mans ego when his W has cheated on him and how he is emasculated.
> 
> What about woman? I was cheated on ALOT when I was young and my marriage in the early stages and it basicially did the same thing to me.
> 
> ...


This is going to be a long post, so you might want to get some coffee or something.

When I was younger, and before I became religious, I was a consummate connoisseur of older woman. As ashamed as I am of it now, I lost my virginity to an older woman and I spent much of my late teens and early twenties chasing them and being chased by them. The reason I'm telling you this is that, whatever you may or may not feel for your twentysomething AP, you're too old for him in every way. Physically, intellectually and emotionally. If he's committed to you, it's because he's immature enough to equate sex with a relationship, something that by your posts you clearly don't reciprocate, because you've been understandably jaded by your marital experiences. Speaking from my own experiences though, he's probably only superficially interested in you. Younger men like older woman for their sexual experience, general liberality and aggressiveness, for the fact that they're less likely to demand a long-term or monogamous relationship, for the fact that their reproductive potential is lower so the probability of most stark negative side-effects of a sexual relationship occurring are dramatically decreased. These factors are compounded by the fact that you're already married. And he, at least subconsciously, knows that if anything goes wrong you're legally another man's problem. Unless he's especially intelligent, especially mature, and especially wise, all of which are unlikely given that he's openly cavorting with a married woman that was graduating high school when he was enrolling in kindergarten, he does not have a fraction of the maturity necessary to make your relationship work in the long-term, nor does he, from the standpoint of a young man that probably wants a family someday, have any particular reason to stay with you. That's the first issue.

The second issue is that your whole conception of what constitutes good self-image, a healthy emotional relationship, and a loving marriage, are all fundamentally screwed. You married a man 20 years your senior, and you openly admit that your relationship began both because you had no emotional support system (family, etc.) and because of recreational drug use. You then persisted in a marriage where your spouse has habitually cheated on you with other women instead of divorcing him civilly, which you can do with no-fault in the vast majority of states. Further, rather than divorce him you were content exercise the same lack of character or self-respect as your husband, by being a cheater and a breaker of vows. You cannot explain this away; you cheated and are continuing to cheat and that makes you just as bad as your husband. Even if it's one AP to dozens, you're still breaking your vows. Period. You've whined in your posts that you have a right to be happy. This is selfish person code for wanting to be able to make poor choices without consequences or criticism. You won't find that environment here. Many people on TAM are victims of infidelity, repentant perpetrators of infidelity, children of families broken by infidelity, even children of infidelity itself. It's never acceptable and until you acknowledge that fact without reservation or qualification, nothing anyone here can tell you will help.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You need help to undo the damage he caused you.God bless you and your kids!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Women are more emotional they are destroyed. The issue is people feel more for the man because men have less support it seems. Men due to the society they have structured have made it so that "weakness" Is not tolerated in the slightest. The female is the chooser the male the chaser, the male the hunter, the female the more compassionate sex capable of birthing children and being more "in touch" with emotions. The male has made a world in which crying is not tolerated and that he must "tough it out".

Because of this its very hard on men when they are hurt from relationships, i'm not sure if its any worse than the female. But the male often feels like he has nobody to turn to other than himself. That's why when a man does meet that special woman he can become really invested in her because he has someone to talk with about his problems, that's why men will only cry (it seems) around a woman they really love. They feel she wont view him as weak and he can be himself and let out his feelings. 

So when the man is cut off from the very person (only person) he felt he could talk to about his feelings he might feel very isolated. The female seems to have more support


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

This thread is a cry for help, friend. I know, I feel it. There's something very clear to me here. You have been completely honest with us. You are crying for help. Hear us.
I told you in my first post you were a bad person. I told it based in you don't want to stop bad behaviors. You can decide to get defined by them or you can start rejecting them, putting distance between the woman you don't like and the woman you want to be. Choosing wisely, writting new pages in your record.


idkwot2do said:


> Im over it....you guys are too much, OM age is not the point of this thread.


It's true, It's not the point. But we can't ignore it's another piece in the puzzle of the disfunctional relationships of a lost soul.
Your husband, and I doubt he has no redeeming traits, looks like more an parasite than a husband, not only for the cheating. Has been since the very beginning. He's dead weight. Drop him.
OM seems has KISA complex, you fit the role of damsel in distress. You need a rescuer. Forget the age gap. Even OM was older only this two roles make the relationship future very unlikely. Let forget all this started as a huge lie. You stated believe yourself lost, fractured, lying become second nature... what i hear is you want to become a whole for once, right? So drop him.
You can only rescue yourself. Do it. Do it for a while, making healthy choices everyday. So...


michzz said:


> When you are in a hole and want to get out of it--stop digging.
> Get divorced, stop,cheating. Work on yourself and only once you've fully figured out your dysfunction consider dating again.


This.


the guy said:


> My advice, stop being used by your old man, stop using that kid as a bandaid, start finding that girl that never in a million years thought she would be in an affair... I don't give a damb if your old man knows about it and is deniel...what your doing to your self is emotionaly unhealthy..period!


And this.


MovingAhead said:


> Get clear of the mess. Get your house in order. One piece at a time. Hell, you have so many moving parts pick one.... H, boy toy, kids...


And this.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> But the male often feels like he has nobody to turn to other than himself.
> So when the man is cut off from the very person (only person) he felt he could talk to about his feelings he might feel very isolated


True, and true.

T


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> There are two reasons that I think that age difference counts... and it has nothing to do with "cougar-ness".
> 
> One reason is that men who marry before the age of 30 have a very high divorce rate. The human brain does not even completely mature until age 26. So he might be a completely different person in a very few years.
> 
> ...


No you aren't a cougar....Cougars are women who date men 10 years younger or more.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

RightfulRiskTaker said:


> No you aren't a cougar....Cougars are women who date men 10 years younger or more.


What do we call guys who date girls 10 years younger?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RightfulRiskTaker said:


> No you aren't a cougar....Cougars are women who date men 10 years younger or more.


What????!!!! I missed it by 3 years? Will have to try harder next time.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WhiteMousse said:


> Yes. An extremely yummy one.


Oh my *blush*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Acoa said:


> @idkwot2do
> 
> You already know the right thing to do. You just seem to be waiting for husband to "make you do the right thing."
> 
> ...


Her husand is running around acting like a slVt too. Now exactly why would it be better for him to get custody?


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Explain to me exactly what's "double standard" in my post.
> 
> T


I'm guessing that it isn't your post or your POV in particular that contains an offensive double standard, but that the poster who is complaining about double standards feels that it is unfair that men marry younger women and get congratulated while women marry younger men and get chastised. Kinda sucks, but, so does much of life; life isn't fair.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

The subject heading is what drew me into this post. I just wanted to add something about it.

The appropriate word that might mean "emasculate" in reference to a woman is apparently contentious terrain because the word itself is so gendered in such particular ways. When referring to the counterpart, the following words (among others) have been suggested by a number of well-regarded persons: unsex (as in George Eliot's "unsexed female"), unfeminized, defeminized, defeminate, unwoman (as in man up or woman up or to unman or unwoman someone).

A nongendered term would be "to enfeeble".

The best way out of this situation, OP, is to stop enfeebling yourself. 

You're not a victim of your husband's poor treatment of you and you're not a victim of your own past. You can choose to be a stronger, better woman. Dump the dead weight husband. Play with your boy toy. And start owning up to what you want instead of justifying why you deserve special exemption from the rules you have agreed to follow. You'll feel better about yourself if you are living a more authentic and honest life -- and then, hopefully, you will be happier and more able to let go of this emotional pain. 

You're obviously unhappy, but you aren't willing to look at anything beyond justification and approval. Who cares what a bunch of anonymous folks on a forum think about your life? Instead of wasting your energy defending yourself to us, think about why it is so important to you to be defensive? Are you resisting your own conscience? You wanted advice and you're resisting the advice you're getting; that itself should tell you something about your relationship to yourself and to your own life. Think a little more deeply. This isn't just about one man vs another man, nor about staying faithfully in an unhappy marriage vs cheating to endure it, but about your relationship to yourself and your ability to accept the circumstances of your life and what you want out of it. See past the superficial aspects of this issue. You stand to gain so much more.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I am not trying to be defensive,and I apologize if I am coming across that way.
I did come here for advice and I am very greatful to be getting so much, it is really helping me and perhaps my defensiveness is because it is like a slap in the face to hear this stuff...and then it begins to sink in.
I knew that when I posted I would get alot of negative feed back and I can handle it, I am strong.

To be honest I wasnt expecting all the criticism on OMs age and it does anger me a little because there completely is a double standard for men and woman.
We look about the same age, I just turned 35 two months ago, I am NOT 45 and Im sorry but I just DONT consider myself an older woman maybe in 10 years but not yet.

I know I must sound like a screwed up person and I know I have made bad choices in my life and I really dont like who I have become. 
It is so very far from the girl I used to be and I want nothing more than to find some inner peace with myself and be able to focus on my kids.

You have made some very good points that I did not see before, thank you for that.
I know now that I am enabeling my husband to have this control over my life.....I think I have always enabled him. 
I took on the responsibility for his life and that is and has always been too much of a burden to carry. 
And perhaps my decision to cheat was part of me deciding to free myself of all that responsibility that I always had to carry.

I know that wasnt fair to my kids.

Its probably better if I D my H and just walk away and not even look back because if I do he will suck me back in with his helplessness.

He is not really that good of a father, I know he loves the kids but he is a selfish person.
He has no time for them and is always yelling and screaming at them and he does not ever consider what is best for them. I thought its better for them to know their father than not know him at all. So they know him now and now its time to leave.

I was born in another counrty and my father passed away three years ago and he left me his house. I am thinking of taking my kids and moving there.....I dont know if this is a good idea but I am seriously thinking about it. It is a good country.

I am just starting to realize how destructive I have been.
I think I am even addicted to the crazy things I do and the rush I get from it.
I am not living with integrity and I really do want to be a good role model for my kids. I always promised myself that I would be a better mother than mine was and look at me now?

Thank you everyone, I appreciate that you have taken the time to read my posts and to respond with such good advice.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

If you're addicted to your shenanigans, please go see a counselor before making any other decisions because your addiction is clouding your judgement on everything else. Figure yourself out first. You can make your life what you want it to be.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

moxy said:


> If you're addicted to your shenanigans, please go see a counselor before making any other decisions because your addiction is clouding your judgement on everything else. Figure yourself out first. You can make your life what you want it to be.


:iagree: :iagree:

Listen to Moxy, I think it wouldn't do any harm to have at least a couple of counseling sessions for your kids. I doubt they are blissfully unaware of the turmoil in the household. With all sincerity, good luck.


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> No, that's a reproductive standard. An older man goes after a younger woman because her physical attractiveness is at its height and because she many more child-bearing years. A older woman goes after a younger man because her body is in use-it-or-lose-it mode reproductively, and younger men have a greater sexual appetite, lower refractory period and higher sperm motility, on top of which they tend to be much less picky about sexual partners so they show greater sexual interest in an older woman than a man her own age, who recognizes instinctually that her best days are behind her reproductively.


Excuse me while I go vomit.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Enchanted said:


> Excuse me while I go vomit.


 Hey, don't kill the messenger. Reproductive drive is a cornerstone of interactions of men and women. Simple as that.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

idkwot2do said:


> I was born in another counrty and my father passed away three years ago and he left me his house. I am thinking of taking my kids and moving there.....I dont know if this is a good idea but I am seriously thinking about it. It is a good country.


I doubt you can do this legally unless your husband agrees to it. Your children are minors and if you divorce, your husband will have the right to joint custody or visitation and I think judges generally frown on moves even out of the same state let alone country.

Also, a 9 and 12 yo, might be really hard on them depending how well adjusted they are in school and such... Could cause a tailspin (moved to another culture/language myself as a 7th grader, was very insecure, and got peer pressured into illegal activities)

Turn your heart toward your children- their welfare, stability, best interests, etc. I don't think you would ever regret unselfish decisions for their sake.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Actually I was thinking of making that move for the sake of my children. We recently moved here 2 years ago and they dont like it very much. And the county I am considering moving to in an english speaking country. A good county.

The only thing that concerns me is if the move away from their father will be too hard on them. But I dont think so he has been in jail most of their lives anyway. I know I made bad choices!!

As for him having any legal rights where my children are concerned I dont think so but im not 100% sure. But he is currently on parole for Drug trafficking so Im pretty sure he can do zero. And I am financially secure and have never been arrested in my life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If he's a convicted drug trafficker then getting your children away from him is probably a good idea. There could be issues with your right to take them out of country depending on what country you are in now and where you would be moving to.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

No, that's a reproductive standard. An older man goes after a younger woman because her physical attractiveness is at its height and because she many more child-bearing years. A older woman goes after a younger man because her body is in use-it-or-lose-it mode reproductively, and younger men have a greater sexual appetite, lower refractory period and higher sperm motility, on top of which they tend to be much less picky about sexual partners so they show greater sexual interest in an older woman than a man her own age, who recognizes instinctually that her best days are behind her reproductively. ***



Haha...some of what you say I do agree with......I mean if your looking at it in a scientific evolutionary way. Except your BS about younger men being less picky!...that is a JOKE. 
Younger men are much more picky than older men because they look better and have many more choices at a female partner. Older men on the other hand need to take what they can get because its a known fact that most woman could if they want to get sex any time they please where it is much harder for men they cant as easily pick and choose.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

My children have citizenship in both countrys.

And my H is not the type to fight for custody. He has never taken care of them and he knows very well that he does not know how. And I would never stop him from contacting them or visiting them

Anyway its just a thought right now, an option, Im not sure If I would move.

I cant see many other ways out of this mess.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I know this because I am a woman.

And I agree...younger doesnt always equal better looking.

I was replying to that guys comment and im sorry if I offendid you.

Not all situations are the same but I was talking generally and that is just my opinion.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> Haha...some of what you say I do agree with......I mean if your looking at it in a scientific evolutionary way. Except your BS about younger men being less picky!...that is a JOKE.
> 
> Younger men are much more picky than older men because they look better and have many more choices at a female partner.


Er...no. Young men may have higher standards as to their personal ideal but they're also far more willing to pick up something less than ideal on the side, especially when there's no strings attached. Older men have more to lose because they generally have more assailable assets should divorce ora child arise, and also fewer years of productivity to repair such loss after the fact.



idkwot2do said:


> Older men on the other hand need to take what they can get because its a known fact that most woman could if they want to get sex any time they please where it is much harder for men they cant as easily pick and choose.


Tell that to all of the kept 20-year-olds that I see canoodling with silver-haired men.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Well I guess we toatally disagree and have different opions on that subject.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Sorry about the spelling, typing to fast.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

And your theory can go exactly the same for woman.

That is not a man or woman argument. Woman of all ages use younger and older men who are less than ideal for a peice on the side / money / assests all the time.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

idkwot2do said:


> My children have citizenship in both countrys.
> 
> And my H is not the type to fight for custody. He has never taken care of them and he knows very well that he does not know how. And I would never stop him from contacting them or visiting them
> 
> ...


Based on what you have shared, it might be best for the children and provide a fresh start/clean slate for you at the same time.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

idkwot2do said:


> Actually I was thinking of making that move for the sake of my children. We recently moved here 2 years ago and they dont like it very much. And the county I am considering moving to in an english speaking country. A good county.
> 
> The only thing that concerns me is if the move away from their father will be too hard on them. But I dont think so he has been in jail most of their lives anyway. I know I made bad choices!!
> 
> As for him having any legal rights where my children are concerned I dont think so but im not 100% sure. But he is currently *on parole for Drug trafficking* so Im pretty sure he can do zero. And I am financially secure and have never been arrested in my life.


Am I taking crazy pills? We can't choose who we fall in love with but we sure as hell can leave if he's a major criminal.

I'm sure being married to that man probably did do all kinds of wrong to your psyche. But as a mother, you have to protect your babies at all costs. Get the heck out of their yesterday.


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## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

Acabado said:


> I think people is right, you are an horrible person. You know you are. With no qualifiers because you won't stop doping something it's wrong with no excuses.
> The fact you despice and hate your husband doesn't change a thing nor make it any better. It's just the sh1t you sell yourself for being an horrible person.
> Nobody will respect you. Hiring your boytoy is... welll. It's an small town. News will get to your children, those you claim you love so much you stayed in an unhappy marriage for so long.
> 
> It's obvious you lost any sense of integrity, using some one else shortcomings or bad bahavior to excuse youself. Well, if you don't respect yourself do it for your children. They don't need to hear from anyone her mom is the sl0t cougar of the town.


I don't know if you're a Christian but the Bible and basic compassion tells us not to judge a man by the least of what they have done. 

She clearly has problems and she is clearly struggling.

She didn't come here to be told what a bad person she was, she already thinks of herself that way.

A little compassion....


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> I don't know if you're a Christian but the Bible and basic compassion tells us not to judge a man by the least of what they have done.
> 
> She clearly has problems and she is clearly struggling.
> 
> ...




The Bible also makes clear that the chiefest expression of the supernatural virtue of charity (which is the correct English translation of the _caritas_) is the correction of the sinner, and that the shunning of a pertinacious and unrepentant one so that they can understand the weight of their actions is just.

This attitude that correction is judgmental is vomitous and deplorable, both because it abandons erring people to their destructive behavior and because the people that generally parrot it are the one's seeking to justify their behavior or that of someone to which they are emotionally attached. Because people like to believe that they, themselves, are generally good and wise, they do not wish to believe they could be emotionally dependent or fixated on people that are objectively not good. So rather than try and help those people be good they minimize their actions, just like all those BSs that come on here and talk about their WS's reprehensible behavior but in the same breath talk about what wonderful parents or people in general they are. Such lengths people to which people go to avoid difficult truths.


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## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> The Bible also makes clear that the chiefest expression of the supernatural virtue of charity (which is the correct English translation of the _caritas_) is the correction of the sinner, and that the shunning of a pertinacious and unrepentant one so that they can understand the weight of their actions is just.
> 
> This attitude that correction is judgmental is vomitous and deplorable, both because it abandons erring people to their destructive behavior and because the people that generally parrot it are the one's seeking to justify their behavior or that of someone to which they are emotionally attached. Because people like to believe that they, themselves, are generally good and wise, they do not wish to believe they could be emotionally dependent or fixated on people that are objectively not good. So rather than try and help those people be good, the minimize their actions, just like all those BSs that come on here and talk about their WS's reprehensible behavior but in the same breath talk about what wonderful parents or people in general they are. Such lengths people to which people go to avoid difficult truths.


Doing a bad thing does not make you a bad person.

You can be a bad wife and a good mother.

You can be a bad employee and a good spouse.

I am not excusing the OP's action.

I just don't judge people when I haven't stood in their shoes, or I try hard not to.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> Doing a bad thing does not make you a bad person.


Yes, it does. As action is the external expression of volition, at least from a moral standpoint, it has to. The degree of one's evil, the persistence or recidivism of it, and the how firmly they attend to reparation and reformation determines how long they are bad people.



LittleBird said:


> You can be a bad wife and a good mother.


Not really. Greater than nurturing or protecting, a mother's job, like the father, is to teach her children right from wrong, both by words and actions. Children internalize and make part of their identity the things they learn from their parents, more than any other source. If by her actions a wife damages a child's belief in the sanctity or marriage or the possibility of trusting another human being, she has done as much harm as one person generally can.



LittleBird said:


> You can be a bad employee and a good spouse.


Part of being a good spouse is providing for the material good and health of your family. If one is unwilling to discharge their position of employment in a sober and diligent fashion they are, in essence, saying that those responsibilities are unworthy of the appropriate attention. By any sane definition, that would make you a bad spouse.



LittleBird said:


> I am not excusing the OP's action.
> 
> I just don't judge people when I haven't stood in their shoes, or I try hard not to.


Sure you are. Worse still, by not correcting them, you're being complicit in their action. One of the things that permit affairs to flourish in the current day is the general amnesty granted to them by friends and family in the name of "not being judgmental" or not having "stood in their shoes." I don't have to stand in the shoes of a rapist or a murderer to know that they're bad people and that their action is wrong. Unfaithful spouses rape children of their innocence and faith in family, and often murder their hopes for a solid marriage themselves.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Little bird, 
Your statement about not judging unless you have stood in their shoes is juvenile. 

By your statement:
Hitler was okay by you, as was the shooter at that Connecticut school, as was the assassin of Kennedy, as is every rapist walking your town.

Live and let live eh?


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Little bird,
> Your statement about not judging unless you have stood in their shoes is juvenile.
> 
> By your statement:
> ...


Little bird mentioned compassion. I doubt that makes her a Nazi.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> Doing a bad thing does not make you a bad person.
> 
> You can be a bad wife and a good mother.
> 
> ...


Your logics are way off. Comparing different roles such as wife and mother - "You can be a bad wife and a good mother" and adding a performance label of good/bad is ludicrous. Creating and abiding in a bad course of action, day and night, makes you a person of bad character. The question is really 'Can you be a good wife and a bad wife at the same time? Can you be a good mother and a bad mother at the same time? Can you be a good employee and a bad one at the same time? That's really the crux of it. Can you love your wife while you are cheating on her with another woman? No one can serve two masters, you will love one and hate the other. What does it really take to walk in another mans shoes? Experience is the ultimate teacher but I don't need to rob a bank to understand what prison feels like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Enchanted said:


> Little bird mentioned compassion. I doubt that makes her a Nazi.


No, it doesn't. But it does make her one of the people that, had they stood up for what was right, would made sure that Hitler would never have gotten beyond railing in beer halls and making crappy watercolor landscapes.


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## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> Yes, it does. As action is the external expression of volition, at least from a moral standpoint, it has to. The degree of one's evil, the persistence or recidivism of it, and the how firmly they attend to reparation and reformation determines how long they are bad people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My parents got divorced because of an affair. It botched my already destructive childhood. Mind you I'm only 20, not far off from a child and I remember the pain well.

I am not excusing her action. I just don't like to be harsh...that's all. It's not my place and it's not my nature. 

If you feel it is your place, so be it.


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## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Little bird,
> Your statement about not judging unless you have stood in their shoes is juvenile.
> 
> By your statement:
> ...


As a matter of fact, I know quite a few rapists and I've forgiven them all. 

Now, they can still rot in prison. But a personal choice to forgive doesn't make a Nazi.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> I am not excusing her action. I just don't like to be harsh...that's all. It's not my place and it's not my nature.


I'm concerned that you confused being harsh/judgmental with being principled. I'm not suggesting that you have to call your parents filthy names or physically abuse them but, if after discovering the infidelity, you continue your relationship with the offending parent in the same manner that you did before is an implicit affirmation that you have no problem with their behavior. My own parents are divorced, though infidelity to my knowledge was not an issue, and my father re-married civilly. As a Roman Catholic, I was horrified by what my father did and I have no contact with him to this day. I love my father but I feel no pain in our separation beyond the danger to soul, which I believe very real. It is my hope that, by my action, he gains a greater understanding of the import of his behavior.

I suppose my overall point is that it's your prerogative to deal with behavior with which you may disagree in your own way, as you're a human being with free will. But I do disapprove of you falsely appealing to divine precept as a means to justify your action or, perhaps more properly, inaction.


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## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> I'm concerned that you confused being harsh/judgmental with being principled. I'm not suggesting that you have to call your parents filthy names or physically abuse them but, if after discovering the infidelity, you continue your relationship with the offending parent in the same manner that you did before is an implicit affirmation that you have no problem with their behavior. My own parents are divorced, though infidelity to my knowledge was not an issue, and my father re-married civilly. As a Roman Catholic, I was horrified by what my father did and I have no contact with him to this day. I love my father but I feel no pain in our separation beyond the danger to soul, which I believe very real. It is my hope that, by my action, he gains a greater understanding of the import of his behavior.
> 
> I suppose my overall point is that it's your prerogative to deal with behavior with which you may disagree in your own way, as you're a human being with free will. But I do disapprove of you falsely appealing to divine precept as a means to justify your action or, perhaps more properly, inaction.


Sir, I am also a Roman Catholic.

And I don't know a whole lot of things. I'm intelligent but intelligence and youth average out to naive at best, stupid at worst. 

But I thought that Jesus said it is not our place to judge others, for God will redeem who he sees fit regardless of what we think. 

And as for my parents, they have done many, many things to each other and to me that I could stop speaking to them for. But I won't. Maybe when I'm older I will feel differently but as for right now, I find it far be it from me to make such drastic choices when I simply don't have the facility to fully understand a lot about life.


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> What do you think?


You make me want to puke.


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## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> Er...no. Young men may have higher standards as to their personal ideal but they're also far more willing to pick up something less than ideal on the side, especially when there's no strings attached. Older men have more to lose because they generally have more assailable assets should divorce ora child arise, and also fewer years of productivity to repair such loss after the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to all of the kept 20-year-olds that I see canoodling with silver-haired men.


As a 20 year old myself, I find that incredibly disturbing. Both of them have issues...society has come to accept that as OK. It's CREEPYYYYY


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> Sir, I am also a Roman Catholic.
> 
> And I don't know a whole lot of things. I'm intelligent but intelligence and youth average out to naive at best, stupid at worst.
> 
> But I thought that Jesus said it is not our place to judge others, for God will redeem who he sees fit regardless of what we think.


This is merely an appeal to false naïvety. A child of four can grasp that there is right and wrong. All that remains is one's willingness or unwillingness to correct, for fear of separation or disapproval or that someone hearing may correct us on behavior we do not stop.

Jesus said judge not that you be not judged. His meaning was to not take the judgement seat, or the evaluation as to the objective state of another's soul (their worthiness of heaven or hell) to our own determination. At the same time we are instructed by Him, in St. Matthew XVIII, 17, to treat the unrepentant and unswerving sinner as a heathen and publican, i.e. to deprive them of your company in loving chastisement.



LittleBird said:


> And as for my parents, they have done many, many things to each other and to me that I could stop speaking to them for. But I won't. Maybe when I'm older I will feel differently but as for right now, I find it far be it from me to make such drastic choices when I simply don't have the facility to fully understand a lot about life.


When one we love does wrong, it requires little understanding beyond that they have done wrong and will not amend that behavior. No other context or consideration is required.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Littlebird and JM, please take your religion debate to a new thread. It's not relevant to the OP. 

Idkwat2do, just check with a lawyer before taking them out of the country. You don't want an international kidnapping charge chasing you.


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## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

Acoa said:


> Littlebird and JM, please take your religion debate to a new thread. It's not relevant to the OP.
> 
> Idkwat2do, just check with a lawyer before taking them out of the country. You don't want an international kidnapping charge chasing you.


No need for a debate, I was actually just supporting compassion for the OP.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> I Dont see how a 12 year age gap makes me his mother? Really my parents were 10 years apart in age I dont think that is even the problem here. But thanks for your opinion.


In your original post you wrote he was 20 years older.. maybe you need to edit that.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Acoa said:


> Littlebird and JM, please take your religion debate to a new thread. It's not relevant to the OP.


My apologies. I didn't think that there was enough left to say to warrant its own thread. I'll try to restrain myself in the future, or just remember to use PMs.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> Thank you for your opinions I appreciate them all.
> 
> To answer your questions -
> yes my H is aware of my relationship because I told him. But I try not to throw it in his face everyday thats why all the hiding.
> ...


Keep in mind that 'laughing' all the time is the high of this new relationship.. Wait until it's time to change the oil, laundry, grocery shooping, doctors appointment, etc.

Once 'life' settles in, then lets see if it's 'laughing' all the time. 

I am 50 and am going through a lot of issues with my 52 yr old wife.

When I was 22 I married a 26 yr old with kids.. because I was into an older woman who knew how to work her magic in bed. She taught me things.. 

That marriage was a complete train wreck... but we 'laughed' all the time,,,, until we lived under the same roof for a year. 

Then life kicked in... and I realized I wasn't ready for an instant family.. just some words of advice.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> I am not financing OM first of all .....I hired him because I could but I do not pay his check and I do not own the company.
> 
> I agree with everything else you said.
> 
> ...


yes, very few guys know where they are going at 23.. the ones that do are lucky.. 

I didn't know my path until early 30's realized that I needed to find a direction and partying in the clubs was not it.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Kasler said:


> The fog is strong in this one.
> 
> For all you say about OM hes still a piece of sh!t who goes after married women.
> 
> ...


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> (I'm still waiting by the way to find out if I'm a cougar since my husband was 7 years younger. I guess the jury is still out.


My understanding, and what I believe is an acceptable definition, is that a cougar typically goes for men that are young enough to be their children.. ie, 45 yr old woman goes after 25 yr old man...


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

The OM is too young and immature to realize the slippery slope he has been invited on and is entertaining. When he does realize, he will drop her like a hot potato.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@ Ostera - I think my H is a cougar 

@ RRT - You presume way too much!....To you I am just words on a page, I am just your imagination. You dont really know me or OM. And you really have no idea what your talking about.


To everyone else who wants to judge me and hate...Go ahead! But I have laid all my dirt out and If you did the same you might even look worse than me.

Some of you are either way to quick to judge or you have just led very sheltered lives so congratulations to you for that wonderful achievment.

As for me well I am just a real person who has led a real life.

I dont claim to be perfect and I dont sit on my high and mighty chair and judge other peoples lives.

Because I have lived a very real life I know what people live through and what it takes to survive and because of this I have the ability to put myself in other peoples shoes unlike many of you.

You preach as though every person is the same and should think the same way, well different life struggles makes for different reactions to life situations and that doesnt necesarily make a person good or bad just different from YOU.

I believe most people are genuinely good...we are all only human and we all make mistakes sometimes over and over.

If you have written me a hateful post just know that I forgive you.

And thank you to the people that have posted productively helpful advice because I do appreciate it.


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

idkwot2do said:


> @ Ostera - I think my H is a cougar
> 
> @ RRT - You presume way too much!....To you I am just words on a page, I am just your imagination. You dont really know me or OM. And you really have no idea what your talking about.
> 
> ...


I don't think your a bad person. But I do think you're wasting good beauty years on a man who is too young for you and will eventually leave you. I could be wrong but I doubt it.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

In regards to older/younger relationships. My personal opinion, I think women do better with men when the man is about 3 to 5 years older than the woman, but that's just my opinion.

In regards to large age differences, 10+ years, here's what I believe to be fairly consistent:

Older man, younger woman, 10+ years. (Assuming the man is a decent person, not an abusive, strange, creep, etc.) If the man wants this to survive he will need to be in such an income bracket that the difference in age is nullified by his ability to provide. The woman would need to feel extremely secure in his ability to provide for her needs (including the children). He will have to consistently present a strong, confident, demeanor. If he loses his power to earn, places the family in financial hardship, requires the woman to become a provider, and if that woman is of above average attractiveness, he will almost certainly lose her.

Older woman, younger man, 10+ years. (Assuming the woman is a decent person, not an abusive, strange, creep, etc.) If this woman wants her relationship to survive she will need to be in such an attractiveness bracket that the difference in age is nullified by her sustained attractiveness. The man would need to feel completely attracted to her, physically and through her ability to create a good home. She will have to consistently present a feminine, supportive demeanor. If she loses her beauty and loses her power to seduce and brings about, what the man may perceive as an attraction hardship, requiring him to satisfy his need for beauty elsewhere, and if that man is of above average attractiveness, she will almost certainly lose him. (One exception, She may be able to keep him if she's able to provide for him 100%. Clothes, car, home, food, etc.)

Now, obviously there'll always be the exceptions, but I think most people will find that the above is pretty much the standard. Also when I say "he/she will almost certainly lose him/her", I'm talking about actual divorce. I'm not even mentioning the potential of either having extramarital affairs with people closer to their own ages; that's another whole subject.

Ok, I'm sure this will bring some harsh reaction, but bring it, let's debate it, here or in another thread, you'll find I'm right on this.

T


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> @ Ostera - I think my H is a cougar
> 
> @ RRT - You presume way too much!....To you I am just words on a page, I am just your imagination. You dont really know me or OM. And you really have no idea what your talking about.
> 
> ...


You came here for what? I didn't help you justify your delusions. There's a better site for that: Affairs.com...They are just like you and will cheerlead and help you justify your actions.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> @ RRT - You presume way too much!....To you I am just words on a page, I am just your imagination. You dont really know me or OM. And you really have no idea what your talking about.


If we don't know what we're talking about then why come and ask for our advice? I imagine it's because you were expecting your sob story to offset the fact that you're a cheating spouse. It didn't, you got called on your completely immature and immoral behavior, and you're angry. 



idkwot2do said:


> To everyone else who wants to judge me and hate...Go ahead! But I have laid all my dirt out and If you did the same you might even look worse than me.
> 
> Some of you are either way to quick to judge or you have just led very sheltered lives so congratulations to you for that wonderful achievment.
> 
> As for me well I am just a real person who has led a real life.


The implication being that to be a "real person" one has to make egregious mistakes that destroy one's dignity, personal empathy, and trustworthiness. Well, in that case I hope I'm never a real live boy. But it again begs the question: if we know and understand so little of "real life" then why are you seeking our advice?



idkwot2do said:


> I dont claim to be perfect and I dont sit on my high and mighty chair and judge other peoples lives.
> 
> Because I have lived a very real life I know what people live through and what it takes to survive and because of this I have the ability to put myself in other peoples shoes unlike many of you.


I don't need to put myself in the shoes of another person to know if they're good or bad people. You can tell by their actions, and whether they show sorrow or justification for those actions, which they are. If such an objective understanding of human nature and morality chafes you personally then perhaps exploring why it does so may give you the answers that you obviously believe us unqualified to deliver.



idkwot2do said:


> You preach as though every person is the same and should think the same way, well different life struggles makes for different reactions to life situations and that doesnt necesarily make a person good or bad just different from YOU.


If your actions don't define whether you're a good person or bad, then why agonize over your relationship with your husband or the OM? Why not just continue with the status quo and let your husband and your OM decide if they want to continue associating with you.



idkwot2do said:


> I believe most people are genuinely good...we are all only human and we all make mistakes sometimes over and over.


Tell that to all of the wonderful BSs on here that don't cheat on the WSs, even then the offending spouse gives them the green light to even things up. And I get so sick of hearing people say that they're "only human", as though that were some sort of justification for destroying childhoods, families, the institution that forms the very social fabric of society.



idkwot2do said:


> If you have written me a hateful post just know that I forgive you.


Keep your forgiveness. I've written nothing for which I'd need or wish to have it, and I won't co-sign on it so you feel like you're in a morally justifiable place.


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

Tony55 said:


> In regards to older/younger relationships. My personal opinion, I think women do better with men when the man is about 3 to 5 years older than the woman, but that's just my opinion.
> 
> In regards to large age differences, 10+ years, here's what I believe to be fairly consistent:
> 
> ...


This sounds like a reasonable assessment of massive age differences in romance.

In the end, I think women who marry men 2-5 years older have a better chance of staying married. Then no matter what she's always the younger woman even when they're both in their 90's.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> What do you think?


idkwot2do

The last line of your initial post is reposted above. That is an invitation for opinions/thoughts. What's wrong? 
I think you interpret uncomfortable opinions as judgements and favorable opinions as insightful. 

Ummm, and no. I don't actually have to walk in someone else's shoes to know what is right and what is wrong. What's harmful (or potentially harmful) and what's honorable. Yes *those* are judgements - as rational beings capable of judgement it is in our interest to make them. You make them every single day. And in fact have already passed same on most of the posters here - right? 

Lastly, no one here has ever said they are paragons of virtue. We all have flaws and failings.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

And the Oscar goes to..............*iDOkwt2do*! I have never seen such a glaring example of Narcissism crawl from the pages of a book and come to life. Wow! :rofl:


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Older man, younger woman, 10+ years. (Assuming the man is a decent person, not an abusive, strange, creep, etc.) If the man wants this to survive he will need to be in such an income bracket that the difference in age is nullified by his ability to provide. The woman would need to feel extremely secure in his ability to provide for her needs (including the children). He will have to consistently present a strong, confident, demeanor. If he loses his power to earn, places the family in financial hardship, requires the woman to become a provider, and if that woman is of above average attractiveness, he will almost certainly lose her.

Older woman, younger man, 10+ years. (Assuming the woman is a decent person, not an abusive, strange, creep, etc.) If this woman wants her relationship to survive she will need to be in such an attractiveness bracket that the difference in age is nullified by her sustained attractiveness. The man would need to feel completely attracted to her, physically and through her ability to create a good home. She will have to consistently present a feminine, supportive demeanor. If she loses her beauty and loses her power to seduce and brings about, what the man may perceive as an attraction hardship, requiring him to satisfy his need for beauty elsewhere, and if that man is of above average attractiveness, she will almost certainly lose him. (One exception, She may be able to keep him if she's able to provide for him 100%. Clothes, car, home, food, etc.) 


@Tony55 - I agree with everything you said above and think you are spot on.

@ RRT & JM - I did come here for opinions and advice

You assume to know me and you dont. 

My mistakes dont define me so if you think I should just agree with all the judgemental crap you are posting Im sorry to dissapoint you

You are entitled to your opinions but like it or not so am I

I am not defending myself or my actions, I posted my mindset at the time in my origional post and the following ones and I was honest about it 

So please go ahead and write what ever comes into your small mind but dont throw a tantrum because I dont agree and have my own opinions.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Quote : Re: The woman version of emasculation 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Quote:
Originally Posted by idkwot2do 
@ RRT - You presume way too much!....To you I am just words on a page, I am just your imagination. You dont really know me or OM. And you really have no idea what your talking about. 

If we don't know what we're talking about then why come and ask for our advice? I imagine it's because you were expecting your sob story to offset the fact that you're a cheating spouse. It didn't, you got called on your completely immature and immoral behavior, and you're angry. 

End Quote

I am not angry about your opionion on that it really doesnt bother me. I am a product of my life and environment and that was not something I chose.

Quote :The implication being that to be a "real person" one has to make egregious mistakes that destroy one's dignity, personal empathy, and trustworthiness. Well, in that case I hope I'm never a real live boy. But it again begs the question: if we know and understand so little of "real life" then why are you seeking our advice

End Quote 

I meant ''real '' as in imperfect. Not fake. Not some fairy tale life where no wrong is done and no mistakes made. 
I was obviously not seeking your ''advice'' because you havent given any. You have only passed judgement on my character because it makes you feel good about yourself and if you need to feel good about yourself in such a way then that is your issue to deal with. 
Because as horrible as you say I am I can see that I am not as judgemental, bitter or unforgiving as you even considering what I have been through and I am far more open minded.

Quote : If your actions don't define whether you're a good person or bad, then why agonize over your relationship with your husband or the OM? Why not just continue with the status quo and let your husband and your OM decide if they want to continue associating with you.

I wasnt asking if I am right or wrong because I already know I am wrong to a point. I was asking for advice on where to go from here and how to go about it given the circumstances of the situation.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Quote : Older man, younger woman, 10+ years. (Assuming the man is a decent person, not an abusive, strange, creep, etc.) If the man wants this to survive he will need to be in such an income bracket that the difference in age is nullified by his ability to provide. The woman would need to feel extremely secure in his ability to provide for her needs (including the children). He will have to consistently present a strong, confident, demeanor. If he loses his power to earn, places the family in financial hardship, requires the woman to become a provider, and if that woman is of above average attractiveness, he will almost certainly lose her.

Older woman, younger man, 10+ years. (Assuming the woman is a decent person, not an abusive, strange, creep, etc.) If this woman wants her relationship to survive she will need to be in such an attractiveness bracket that the difference in age is nullified by her sustained attractiveness. The man would need to feel completely attracted to her, physically and through her ability to create a good home. She will have to consistently present a feminine, supportive demeanor. If she loses her beauty and loses her power to seduce and brings about, what the man may perceive as an attraction hardship, requiring him to satisfy his need for beauty elsewhere, and if that man is of above average attractiveness, she will almost certainly lose him. (One exception, She may be able to keep him if she's able to provide for him 100%. Clothes, car, home, food, etc.) 

End Quote




@Tony55 - I still agree, but I would like to add something.

An older man must also keep up his appearance even if he is 100%financial provider because if he becomes unhealthy and unattractive she may also look elsewhere to satisfy her sexual needs on the side. Especially if the only reason she is staying is for the financial stability.


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## cuphgorb7 (Jan 18, 2013)

I think you need to work on yourself.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> @ Ostera - I think my H is a cougar
> 
> @ RRT - You presume way too much!....To you I am just words on a page, I am just your imagination. You dont really know me or OM. And you really have no idea what your talking about.
> 
> ...


Last but not least.


*Do you even know the definition of judgmental? What you have is a bad case of self-righteous indignation which takes some amount of integrity to cure.*


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

LittleBird said:


> Sir, I am also a Roman Catholic.
> 
> And I don't know a whole lot of things. I'm intelligent but intelligence and youth average out to naive at best, stupid at worst.
> 
> But I thought that Jesus said it is not our place to judge others, for God will redeem who he sees fit regardless of what we think.


Than by this logic we should have neither laws nor prisons.

The truth is we as a society do have a right to maintain a core set of values to protect ourselves, others, and to establish a common set of rules we live by.

Being honest and faithful is one of those values.
If you cheat in business we judge you and charge you.
If you betray your country we judge you and charge you.
why should betraying your SO and children be given a free pass?


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@RRT- U Sound pretty angry, sorry if I hit a nerve there.

Obviosly you are not even reading my posts because you keep saying the same thing over and over even after I have replied and you are even making things up. 

You are too full of hatred and I pity you that

I think you just want to lash out so be my guest Im done arguing with you its getting tired.



How about this - You dont agree with my opinions and I dont agree with yours


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Emasculate me, baby. Unlike your OM, I don't take things lying down. But I don't believe in duking it out, so sure...let's ride off into the sunset on our unicorns to the neverneverland of "agreeing to disagree" where the daisies and tulips are littered with the dew of a gentle rain, where the skies are the colors of the rainbow and sea is crystal clear diamond blue always. Only nerve hitting I saw was yours. Good luck. Have a great ride on that good ole bus waiting round the bend. I do hope you will enjoy it


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Girl what the hell are you still with that dead beat old man of yours and still hanging out with that kid that like married chicks?


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> So please go ahead and write what ever comes into your small mind but dont throw a tantrum because I dont agree and have my own opinions.


Look, sorry to be so blunt on a thread that you started, but, why do you think it's okay to talk to people in this manner?

Being more civil and less belligerent might bring you a little more happiness in general with whatever kind of person you're with. When you speak in this way on a public anonymous forum, it makes me doubt your perceptions and self-awareness. 

Maybe you should evaluate what specifically is triggering your responses; if anonymous forum posters generate this kind of attitude, what do people you're close to get? Do you think this might contribute to some of your problems? Sometimes, we bring unnecessary pain into our own lives because we lack the awareness to prevent it...

I'm not trying to pick on you, but to sincerely point out something I think you might want to consider in your own self-reflection.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

RightfulRiskTaker said:


> Emasculate me, baby. Unlike your OM, I don't take things lying down. But I don't believe in duking it out, so sure...let's ride off into the sunset on our unicorns to the neverneverland of "agreeing to disagree" where the daisies and tulips are littered with the dew of a gentle rain, where the skies are the colors of the rainbow and sea is crystal clear diamond blue always. Only nerve hitting I saw was yours. Good luck. Have a great ride on that good ole bus waiting round the bend. I do hope you will enjoy it


" Unlike her OM " geeze, both the men in her life are taking it laying down.

There has to be a guy out there that will make you happy when you are no longer married , close to your own age, and not with you for all the wrong reasons. There has to be a guy out there that will not milk your income, alpha enough to please you and not tolorate your crap by standing up and being a man.

A man that won't share his wife, a man that won't be used as a band aid, a man that will not share his GF with her husband, a man that will provide and supprt his women, a man that will not sleep with married chick, a man that will stand up and and support him self, a man that will want you for all the right reasons when all this sh1tty baggage is long gone.

A man that will look at you for what you once were and not what you have become.

Both these men in your life are only bringing out the worst in you girl. reread your 1st post...you are not the women you have become and you hate your self no matter how happy this kid [I call a bandaid] makes you.

Its phucking unhealthy, and you damb well know it...reread that 1st post you made..the original thread...it says alot to me, the guy that just wants you to be a better person in this world....God knows we need more of them.

damb what a rant


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@ The guy - In my first post I have told you that -

I am not sleeping with 2 men at the same time and I never did.

H and I stopped sleeping together long b4 I ever met OM
we were not living together as H & W long b4 I met OM
and that was because of his lying , cheating and uncaring behaviour that he was unwilling to change.

I have been honest with H about my feelings of being unhappy and wanting a D








Its getting really twisted.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

@ Theguy - You said ::: 

Unlike her OM " geeze, both the men in her life are taking it laying down.

AND 

A man that won't share his wife, a man that won't be used as a band aid, a man that will not share his GF with her husband,

END QUOTE


None of this is true

Jump on the band wagon....make stuff up and twist me as bad as possible.


Dude that hurt my feelings.


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

You have feelings?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Apparently not


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

idkwot2do said:


> @ The guy - In my first post I have told you that -
> 
> I am not sleeping with 2 men at the same time and I never did.
> 
> ...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

idkwot2do said:


> @ Theguy - You said :::
> 
> Unlike her OM " geeze, both the men in her life are taking it laying down.
> 
> ...


Sorry again, not my intention.

IDK, there has to be more out there for you? 

Sometime the bandwagon sees the trees tru the forest....did I get that right?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

There are a few things that stick out in the start of your thread, 1) your old man cheated, 2) you mentioned you got with the kid for all the wrong reasons, and 3) you are *not* happy with what you have become.

I'm I wrong?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Please straighten me out.

Your old man knows your with the kid.

The kid knows your married.

Both these guys except it or at the very least tolorate it.

WHat am I not seeing?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

idkwot2do said:


> Apparently not


Bull crap you have feelings, thats why your here!

Your old man phucked you up and 8 years ago your feels left you.

Your new guy hasn't brought those healthy feelings back. Granted they are feelings but are they healthy feelings?



THATS MY WHOLE F6CKING POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sorry for shouting


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

Im done here.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Come on!!! Why?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Is it cuz you keep hearing the same sh1t over and over again?


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I just feel like I am explaining my story over and over


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

idkwot2do said:


> @ The guy - In my first post I have told you that -
> 
> I am not sleeping with 2 men at the same time and I never did.
> 
> ...


The solution is to divorce your husband. You no longer have a marriage - divorce and go your separate ways. I have a feeling once your divorced and living on your own with your own money, car, home etc. you might see your boyfriend differently. He might not look so interesting and you might miss conversations with people your own age. In the end I have a feeling you'll be fine.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

My H did horrible things to me and our marriage over the years but because some how I ended up being the one that takes care of the 
family I am now having a very hard time D him and leaving him to take care of himself.


Why do I keep putting his needs ahead of mine? Even though he has never put my needs ahead of his??


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