# Getting over my husband's EA



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

WARNING -- THIS IS VERY LONG

Hi, I've been a long-time lurker ---- Long, as in the last couple of months. I don't think I have it in me to write up everything but suffice it to say I'm bursting at the seams. My emotions are up and down, one minute I'm good, the next minute I'm angry from flashbacks. A general overview, I noticed about a year ago that a co-worker of my husband's (he is her supervisor) seemed to have a crush on him. We were at an event together (and previously we were friends) so we were hanging out when my husband walked over to us. I noticed a smile on her face the way one does when someone is 'in like' with someone. It was apparent my husband appreciated the smiles but it wasn't reciprocated (yet) for him. Now, in the past this hasn't bothered me, but this time something was different. 

Fast forward to the Fall....we went to her house for dinner as a family, our kids, their kids, etc. Our children used to be in school together, and again, I've counted her as a friend. I really, really liked them as people. Well, she was dressed in a skin-tight top and it was clear throughout dinner that my husband was very attracted to her and having a hard time with it. They were hanging out in the kitchen talking to each other while her husband gave me a tour of the house. Shouldn't she have been giving me the tour? (I'm going through some health issues and at that time was marching upwards on the scale...I've since dropped weight.) 

Some background, they've been running buddies outside of work, and she is a 'guy's girl'. I used to consider myself one too but I now know better. My radar started firing. Since I was a little girl I've always had great radar, and used to pick out who was having affairs among my parents friends. It never stopped. In any event, I've been uncomfortable about their friendship. When we were going out in the city where he works he would catch a ride in with her from our town and vice versa so we could drive back together later in the evening, a convenience for all of us. This now started to bother me. 

They occasionally had lunch together, a drink when the building had to shut down, etc, usually at her invitation. And then came their company's retreat....in the beginning of this year. I woke up in the middle of the night not being able to sleep (spouses weren't included) and sent him a txt, something I don't do in the middle of the night telling him I couldn't sleep and was very uneasy. (When my brother was going through a rough time the same thing would happen and it usually was when he was in trouble: od'd, etc. Thank God he's now clean/sober because I lost a lot of sleep during those years.) 

When my husband returned from the retreat I could tell he was avoiding me...focus on the kids, etc. Also prior to this we were having distance issues in our marriage: me, occupied with kids, he with work. (And coming home from work was consistently late.) He started the usual, dressing really well for work. Coming home consistently later (not dramatically but enough for me to notice) and he started becoming critical of me and short with the kids. Classic signs. 

In February I took the kids to visit my mom out of state and for the first time in my marriage I felt apathetic...like I could do this parenting thing by myself. It's hard to describe. At the same time my health was starting to improve and I was starting to slowly drop the weight. While away my husband asked if I wanted to have dinner with two other couples when I returned -- she was setting up a night for three couples from the company to go out. My heart sunk (icky feeling) but I said 'okay'. The night of dinner it turned out the other couple couldn't join us. Okay, I need to abbreviate this. Long story shorter, at dinner I felt "out" and she was "in". They were so obvious and they didn't even realize it. The smiling, the looking up and down, the energy between them, and her husband clueless. My old radar was in high gear and I was so, so uncomfortable. (What an idiot, huh? She was so damn ****y thinking she could pull off this dinner and everything not be noticed. Dumber than Bill Clinton's d_*_. The analogy is deliberate. She's very bright in a book-smart way, and extremely stupid in a nuanced way. Extremely.) In any event, there's an angry moment for ya. 

Back to the story. So after dinner, in the car, I told my husband to pull over and I told him that it was the most uncomfortable dinner of my life, blah blah blah. He admitted to being attracted to her but later that night said he worked with a lot of attractive people and that he loves me, wants to grow old with me, etc. (This is true but the dude was fogged out!) He was supposed to give her a ride to work in the following week and I told him after that no more rides... I also brought up the company retreat and how an event without spouses/sig others is a recipe for disaster. Of course he defended their stupid policy but agreed that things can happen.) Sooooo, I felt completely unsatisfied with the xchange, numb, knew I was onto something and then during the weekend tried to cheer HIM up because he was under soooo much stress from work. 

Come Monday, Tuesday I spoke with my mother and sister and told them about all of this and my sister said "no ride" and I txt'd him and said after all, I wasn't comfortable with him giving her a ride to work. Out came the helpless response...she tried other people but I'm her only ride so "what do I do?" I didn't respond. bad moment. I dropped it....

But, then, the night before 'the ride', for the first time ever I woke up in the middle of the night not being able to sleep and felt led (yes, led by G) to get his cell phone and check his emails. Sure enough in his outbox (where he had forgotten to delete some emails) there was a trail of super-flirtatious (to me, and honestly to others, my bf, sister, etc) emails between them, ending with the whole ride to work that he would be giving her. "OW:....maybe I'm in trouble. H: quite the opposite" After reading those emails I was devastated, shaking, cold, numb. I went and woke him up and told him to get up, that I needed to talk to him. And then I confronted him with the emails. I count this as DD #2 (The first being after dinner). He admitted to an inappropriate attraction/friendship/relationship but said nothing physical ever happened. He said he would take care of it...make it right but he was afraid of losing his job over this. I wanted to give her the 'ride' to work and lay into her. (He said he would give her the ride and confront the situation and put it right. Stupid of me, but I let him.) 

We had a lot more conversation, I just don't have it in me to write everything. Well that was the beginning of the coming clean, but also the beginning of trickle truth. I HATE trickle truth, especially having the radar I do, because I can always tell by body language and the words he (and others) speak if there is more....It makes the carousel of emotions that much worse because I never get off the damn ride. Fast forward to now....since then I've cracked his texts, I've looked up phone records (thanks to tips from 'iheartlife' on this site), and *he in an effort to practice transparency let me read all of his work emails that he thought were deleted. *(She realized an app the company had installed on their phones could pull up any old emails and went to tell him so he could delete it. He thanked her, and instead came home and told me about it so I could read all of the emails. *That was a HUGE trust builder on my part *because I knew he wasn't hiding those anymore from me.

Yes, there were some bad emails, but one in particular was awful, but a passage in the exchange led me to believe he was telling the truth about having not seen her in her birthday suit/doing the deed because she referred to body parts and how if he saw a photograph of 'em it wouldn't do 'em justice. He then went on to say he needed to get his hands on the real mccoy and she agreed and said 'much more fun'. (what a 'coy' idiot!) Of course when he let her know he hadn't deleted the app but had made it available to me she was irate. 

Sooo, here's where we are, he is practicing to the best of his ability NC at work. He avoids her in the hall, etc and has limited the work they do together. Any communication or work interaction (or otherwise) he has with her (ie arriving in the parking lot same time) he lets me know about it. He's been doing this ever since we starting reading "Not Just Friends", and it's been helping --- but it's slow going. We start counseling this week and I hope the therapist can help us. 

My husband is considering/praying about/wanting a new job direction, he just doesn't know how to go about it. Financially we need his job since I'm not working in a significant way but am considering a return to work. We have the kids to support. Honestly if it weren't for the kids I think I would have hopped on the plane despite the enormous love I have for him. He is the love of my life. There's so much more to this story. I have had face-to-face and telephone conversations with her. She still lies (of course) interspersed with overall truth but says she'd give up the job in a heartbeat if she could but they need the money. In the meantime I'm praying the situation changes soon! 

Oh, and one note....when I went back and analyzed the communication between them: emails, texts, (inter-office im's he told me about that she showed him how to delete) the vast majority of communication began and ended with her! But he's the one who pushed the content to the edge. He sexualized it, but she did nothing to stop it and brought it further. NO doubt about it they were in an emotional affair and it was right on the brink of turning PA. One drink, one more work retreat, one more whatever and they were right there. Thank God this intervention happened when it did. 

What I'm still having a hard time with is the company retreat.....they were on the same hall. There were texts (more than he told me about) between them EXACTLY at the same time I was up in the night, and he can only remember a couple of the exchanges of the 12 text string from the middle of the night. Also driving back from the retreat they exchanged 6 texts and he can't remember the content of those with exception of her texting him something to the effect of "seeing you was the highlight of the weekend" and initially he told me he didn't text back. Well once I had the txt record I could prove that he did, and did 3 times! But he can't remember what he said. This bothers me enormously. 

I wish I could inject him with truth serum. Have the HD of the phone cracked by a database dude (instead of just the backup files which have overwritten this exchange), or find a super-reliable polygraph. 

So am I splitting hairs? He has sworn with his life that he has told me everything....even about one uncomfortable exchange at the retreat where it could have gone physical but it didn't. I believe they didn't do the deed but I'm still having a hard time believing there wasn't some sort of physical interaction especially with the energy I observed between them that night at dinner. If he showed me all of the emails, why would he still withhold information from me? Am I being overreactive in my hyper-vigilant state? I imagine the counselor will help us with this. 

(And btw I have spoken one time with her husband. I have the feeling he's been through this before. He is a sweetheart of a guy. A good egg. And loves her. He doesn't deserve her junk.) (And I didn't deserve what my H did to me. Yes, we had problems in our marriage that created the climate for this and I am a huge contributor...but doing this when I was down, health issues, family issues don't excuse this selfishness.) 

My husband has had full-on break-down and crying about his unfaithfulness. His self-image shattered about the type of person and father he wanted to be. One melt-down in particular showed me the depth of his regret. I just pray it sticks.......


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

just a suggestion first-

please edit your post and break it into a more readable format with paragraphs and such as it is very difficult to read a giant wall of text and you will not get as many responses


----------



## ShatteredinAL (Feb 5, 2012)

I would have to see polygraph results to believe that he didn't sleep with her at least once. There's no way he's being completely open about the situation the way it sounds.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> just a suggestion first-
> 
> please edit your post and break it into a more readable format with paragraphs and such as it is very difficult to read a giant wall of text and you will not get as many responses


Especially when people try to read it on a smart phone or tablet. The wall of text is too difficult to read so they will just skip the thread. I know I won't bother to read it on my phone.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Hi, I've been a long-time lurker ---- Long, as in the last couple of months. I don't think I have it in me to write up everything but suffice it to say I'm bursting at the seams. My emotions are up and down, one minute I'm good, the next minute I'm angry from flashbacks.
> 
> A general overview, I noticed about a year ago that a co-worker of my husband's (he is her supervisor) seemed to have a crush on him. We were at an event together (and previously we were friends) so we were hanging out when my husband walked over to us. I noticed a smile on her face the way one does when someone is 'in like' with someone.
> 
> ...


I broke your copy up into paragraphs to make it easier to read. 

Re Your questions:

I am not a mind reader so I don't know if your husband cheated. 

However, My STBEH's Other woman lied to her husband and insisted the relationship was only an inappropriate connection, not sex. 


Their text that I have seen say otherwise. My husband at least admitted the truth. The inappropriate thing is a common cover, IMO. 

So, IMO, and based on my experience you should be suspicious.

Also, re: the flirtatiousness. My STBEH has always been flirtatious, He is very talkative and friendly to everyone, even his parents claim that and that was always his excuse. 

My STBEh if I complained about him talking too much to a woman he would say it's just the way he is, he is friendly to everyone. 

The running together is very suspicious. Two married people should not be running without their respective spouses along. 

Lastly, just before learning of my STBEH's affair a neighbor who was very flirtatious and wanted to run with him, all of sudden wanted to befriend me. 

I also had a bad feeling about her because she was always giggly and flirtatious around my STBEH. 

Also the rumor around the neighborhood is that this flirtatious woman has had multiple affairs with MM prior. 

Her present husband is the result of an affair. He left his wife for her. She now bad mouths him constantly. Likely she is on the prowl again. 

My research indicates that there are woman who will befriend another woman to have an affair with the spouse. The friend thing is a way to get close to the targeted spouse.

Some cheaters even get some kind of perverted thrill out of it. Being together with the respective spouses gives both cheaters some type of smug satisfaction, apparently. 

My STBEH did not have an affair with her, but he was very responsive to her flirting and always started preening himself when they talked. 

We talked about it, but he dismissed it.

At that time little did I know that my husband was in the midst of an affair with someone, just not her.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

You have been betrayed. You decide if, or how much it matters if it was a PA, or stayed an EA. His heart left the marriage. Whether you heal and try R is completely in your court. So sorry you are going through this.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

thank you. paragraphs created. sorry for the txt blocks!


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> You have been betrayed. You decide if, or how much it matters if it was a PA, or stayed an EA. His heart left the marriage. Whether you heal and try R is completely in your court. So sorry you are going through this.


Definitely want to R. And we are in it. We have been closer during this post-discovery time than we've been in years...in all of the 'usual' ways. But I keep having these major emotional dips. Our marriage is worth it. Again, he's the love of my life. And I know I'm his....but as I told him (and he agrees)....he left me emotionally. He was in that huge foggy ship headed over the waterfall. The only reason knowing re EA/PA is the honesty issue. The more truth, the more healing. Simple


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Sara8, thx for your reply. My husband actually isn't a super-flirty guy. He's pretty quiet and shy, but when comfortable around people he's very funny and can be quiet interactive. I think she gave him major ego strokes (and vice versa). 

Re "inappropriate" behavior my husband admits ALL of it was wrong and is now very aware of EA's and that lunches, drinks, runs, txts, im's and crossing over into secretive behavior when he knew I wasn't comfortable was wrong. Letting me read all of the emails (I went through 2010, 2011, 2012) was huge. There's no way for him to delete anything from his co's database. And I could see the progression from friends to flirts to emotial affair partners. What I still have a nagging itch about is that retreat. I do believe the deed didn't happen, but I don't believe there has never been anything physical at all. He knows I don't believe that. He has said he'll take a polygraph, hire a forensic programmer, whatever to prove it.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> What I still have a nagging itch about is that retreat. I do believe the deed didn't happen, but I don't believe there has never been anything physical at all. He knows I don't believe that. He has said he'll take a polygraph, hire a forensic programmer, whatever to prove it.


Then let him. Take him up on the offer to submit to a polygraph or to have a forensic programmer go though his phone/computer/whatever. But you hire those professionals, so that it is very clear that they work for you, rather than your husband. In my experience, not knowing for sure what happened is one of those things that will really eat at you and make R even harder.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Thank you. I started researching polygraph folk today. He had started researching them and said they cost $700+ -- a lot of dough for us right now, but he said he'd be willing to spend the money. I'm confident I can find one for less, and thx, I needed to hear that re me finding and hiring them. It really is eating away at me and I so want to move on. As he knows, I won't fully be able to move on until he or she leaves that work environment.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

He has to quit his job. Until that happens, R will be a fail. There isn't one success story on the forum of an R with the spouse still at the same job with the AP--much less a boss.

My H was in a long-term EA, but I would pay more attention to Sara8's situation than mine. My H essentially fell into infatuation and never commented on his AP's body parts.

You also need MC with a counselor trained in infidelity and pro-marriage, but not until he quits his job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Thank you. I started researching polygraph folk today. He had started researching them and said they cost $700+ -- a lot of dough for us right now, but he said he'd be willing to spend the money. I'm confident I can find one for less, and thx, I needed to hear that re me finding and hiring them. It really is eating away at me and I so want to move on. As he knows, I won't fully be able to move on until he or she leaves that work environment.


Don't spend the money on a poly till he quits his job!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

Yep, the job has got to go. There is no way you will ever be okay until it does.

The rest of it? I agree with the others that until YOU feel you have the truth, R isn't going to be successful. Do you want to still feel like this in 15 years? Do you want to be 70 years old still *****ing about his affair? Nope.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> He has to quit his job. Until that happens, R will be a fail. There isn't one success story on the forum of an R with the spouse still at the same job with the AP--much less a boss.
> 
> My H was in a long-term EA, but I would pay more attention to Sara8's situation than mine. My H essentially fell into infatuation and never commented on his AP's body parts.
> 
> ...


iheartlife -- I was so happy to see your post. I've been following your story and have found hope in it. Also thank you for the reference to sara8's post. I would love to read her story if there is a link to it?

Re the job: Today my two requirements crystalized thx to the posts here though I have expressed these items before, until today I had never enunciated them with simplicity, clarity and without anger. When we spoke I was downright upbeat, affirming my love but specifying for us to be in true reconciliation these two things have to happen:

1. In my mind/heart I need to feel that I finally have the whole truth. (God can help me with this.) I see no other way...I don't know how that will happen, I just know it needs to.

2. Either he or she need to leave the work place. He said to me today that he will have to step up his search. (He had started in a very remedial way.)

Unfortunately quitting isn't an option because of our financial situation. We have nothing to rely on without his job. (Kind of a paycheck to paycheck scenario. My health expenses are one contributing factor -- a big one -- I see a specialist almost monthly and without the doctor's treatment I would be in a very, very bad place. The closest doctor we know of who treats this besides my current doctor is across the country from us. The ideal would be for my husband to get a new job pronto (or for her to leave. Believe me, lots o' prayer.) Until then I understand true R can't happen. That was hard to read, but I know that I know it's true. 

And re the counselor we have our first appointment this week. The C is pro-marriage and pro-reconciliation and I found her by doing a search for therapists in our area who embrace Shirley Glass' book/approach. Without that angle I don't see how we could move forward. None of this "forgive and move past". Yes, forgive, absolutely. I'm in need of it myself. But moving past a festering wound without it being healed? No way. That's a recipe for gangrene.

I'm wondering though, why not go to counseling until he's left his job? I don't understand that??

And thank you, thank you for your feedback (everyone in fact). The more anxious, the more verbose I am. *sigh*.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> My husband has had full-on break-down and crying about his unfaithfulness. His self-image shattered about the type of person and father he wanted to be. One melt-down in particular showed me the depth of his regret. I just pray it sticks.......


Yes. The realisation that you betrayed your own self as well as your spouse. If I think about when that happened to me, I still, years later, feel shame.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> I'm wondering though, why not go to counseling until he's left his job? I don't understand that??


If you found a good counselor, and fingers crossed that you have, you may as well go now. Let us hope that they are indeed well-versed on Shirley Glass's research and will support you in your husband showing you verification to the extent that he can while still at his job. Just be upfront with the counselor about your EXTREME skepticism that counseling will do much good if 3 people are in the marriage and while he's in the job he's constantly getting his "hit" of the AP. And where does that leave you two.

Once you feel the counselor out in terms of their knowledge about emotional affairs, certainly raise this trust issue of what happened on the retreat. The counselor may be able to sensitively frame the questions (while NOT letting up, so "gentle" prosecution cross-examination style) feretting out the truth. If your MC is good, they should be able to get this out, but of course it isn't fool-proof when you're dealing with someone who (no matter how nice a person they might be otherwise) has a huge incentive to lie more.

I am sorry you are so over a barrel with your health issues. That woman seriously deserves to be outed to her upper management--there is no doubt in my mind she's wasting company resources and I imagine other employees have noticed PLENTY her partiality toward your husband (which would easily expose her to a sexual harrassment claim).

Have you raised the danger of a sexual harrassment suit with your husband? Point out that it isn't just an issue of his being able to sue her as his boss for coming on to him. A boss-worker relationship at the office can create a "hostile work environment" because of the favoritism it shows. If you do this gently and play your cards right, you might be able to persuade him to avoid her on the theory that OTHER employees would have a case against her/the company due to his inappropriate interactions with her. (Obviously, as long as HE isn't in a management role of any kind, this would all fall on her, although he could lose his job or get reassigned if upper management got wind.)


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

iheartlife -- thank you, once again for your advice. I sure hope the counselor is well-schooled in Glass's work too. If not, it'll be a deal-breaker for me. I'm so in line with her perspective and though I haven't finished it, it's helped me enormously. We'll see. I feel like I need to print out your last post and bring it with me as a crib sheet. (-:

Re the sexual harrasment, my husband is the lead/head of their department, so he's the one who could be slapped with the suit in theory, even though I could demonstrate through the text records and through 2010, 2011, 2012 office emails that she initiated the lunches, as well as the flirtatious language in the emails. She was constantly fishing for complements and even after he broke things off and to the best of his ability started "no-contact" she continued to pop into his office, send him notes, etc. (He has forwarded every bit of correspondence and written me about any interaction. We have copies and records of all of these things.) She didn't stop until he cut her off and told her that he was being totally transparent with me, that he loved me, was intent on saving our marriage, could not "be friends" with her and that he had given me access to all of their email exchanges (via the firm's database software which she wanted him to delete!) And then again there was the visit I paid to her husband....yup. That threw a bit of a wrench in things too (-; 

So even though we/I could demonstrate and prove that she was the initiator of much of the interaction, the fact that HE is her boss unfortunately (and understandably) puts the ultimate onus on him.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Time for an update though I cringe, in a way, when I read my original posts. Drama! Fog for me....maybe still? I feel a bit more jaded, and a bit more realistic, and still cautious. I think in some ways you can't stop watching. Or at least I don't. 

We've been in MC since June and it's been helpful, though at times I've snapped at our counselor because I'm not sure, but I think she subscribes a bit too much to the breakdown of the marriage being the contributor to the affair. While no doubt that creates a fertile ground it doesn't take away from people's (in this case, my husband's) individual weaknesses. If you had some poor boundaries before the marriage, or a slightly wandering eye that had NOTHING to do with you not getting your needs met in a marriage or looking to your spouse to fulfill those needs then they're still going to be there no matter how much you love your spouse.. 

Our marriage counselor uses EFT (Emotionally Focused Therapy, "Hold Me Tight") as her approach. She's very good at what she does and no doubt we've had break throughs and are much more connected, actually dramatically so. (In the back of my mind I wait for the shoe to drop, like its too good to be true.)

My husband has gone to a career counselor with whom he's working on the job search. He's continued to report if he even hears her voice down the hall, shares emails, etc.) with the awareness that the job situation has to change. 

And then....this week OW came in to say she's resigning. Yay! What joy! She's decided to be a SAHM. Some may lambast me for this, but I'm so happy for her and her husband because it keeps her focus on her family instead of hanging out with all the guys in the office. My guess is her h drew the line and she's making that hard step for him and their kids. (He's a peach.)

My husband still wants to change jobs, but this has changed things dramatically. We still live not far from them but we don't see each other around town and I hope that continues. (I pray.)

Re the polygraph, I made contact with a very good polygrapher in our area but it costs $700 (standard in our area!) My husband wanted to get it done so he could demonstrate nothing physical happened. We may still do it to close that chapter, it's just soooooo much money. 

Regardless, in some ways it doesn't even matter (apart from closing the "lying" chapter) because he did it his mind and their emails/txts were sexual in nature. Not a lot of them but enough to put them on the precipice. 

So once she leaves we get to FINALLY experience true no contact in all its glory.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I have been exactly! where you are. There's nothing like the thought that he will NEVER have contact with her again!! Its a relief that cant be described, truly. BUT with that said, now is when you actually really have to start dealing with the reality of what has transpired. Before you were just going thru day to day- trying to get by. NOW- the only thing to concentrate on is YOU and HIM. It will be a bumpy ride. Ups and downs. Its all part of R. What has he done in the past few mos to show he is truly remorseful aside from transparency and MC? What have the two of you put into place to HELP ensure this doesnt happen again. You can never 100% affair proof your marriage, unfortunately. But you can do certain things that makes him less suseptible to having his ego stroked and the flattery of other women. Especially women who do this kind of thing for a 'living' practically. You know the pros who target certain men.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Thx canttrustu. Appreciate the feedback. And your comments on others' posts are always so helpful, spot on. Good things for me to think about re what he's doing to build trust. (Like helping out around home out of sincerity and not guilty covering his tracks. Or coming home earlier. He seems to be more interested in what's going on with my family, and involved with my health situation. He tries to keep me up on his calendar and there seems to be a genuine interest in me as a person. (I guess it takes time to get past the fear that its all an act. He knows I'll leave him if he betrays me again.)

When she leaves the end of this month I'll be watching to see if he gets depressed, etc as true N/C kicks in. He says he's happy...

What things should I be looking for? He's very aware now that his selfishness drove this. His words. 

And I'm trying to be aware of his needs, not let the kids' dictate our relationship. The best thing out of all of this has been spending time together, just the two of us. It's been years. The kids and his work really took over lives.

I'd love to read your story/thread if you have one? I'm not great at navigating this site from my phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I do have one but its over a few threads. Look under my name and it will give you my threads in my statistics. Or you can PM me with specific question if that will help.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I do have one but its over a few threads. Look under my name and it will give you my threads in my statistics. Or you can PM me with specific question if that will help.


Oh canttrustu....Now I remember your story (and thread's) VERY well. Talk about triggers. DDay #1 for me was Feb 25. DD#2 Feb 29th, and then there was a third after going through phone records but I didn't find this site until a couple of months later and then finally started posting a couple after that. 

I was following your posts because so many things were reminiscent of my situation. (Can't believe I spaced on your threads. Thx for the redirect.) Reading now......


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

How's it going Sun?


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Hey! Thx for asking. Been having a bit of a setback emotionally, actually more than a bit. To b expected, I guess. Someone senior to my husband asked her to extend her stay at work by 2 wks and then to go 3days/wk in office for Nov. Then in the new year she'll work from home for the co on freelance basis so though she won't be in the office and won't be working with him, the connection with the Co. is still there and it has me very bummed. What if she has to go in for some reason? I don't like it at all. So more delay on what true NC feels like. I've been pretty up and down with him. Even thought about separation last week, crazy thoughts. Not so much now but I don't want to be a policewoman. I don't want to monitor. When he slips back into selfishness (putting his needs above ours) I don't want to feel resentment, even if he recognizes it or apologizes. I'm so afraid of slipping back into being the enabling, accommodating spouse and I just don't want it. I realize all of these emotions may be as a result of the delay in her being gone. 

Here's the deal, if people want to cheat they can always find somebody. Without staying on top of him 24-7 how do I know? That's not my bag. (I DO think he's trying, I just get concerned for the long haul.)

Enuf said. You're dear for asking. I'm gonna peruse others threads. Helps a lot and I wish I could contribute more!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Did you ever tell her husband? If not, you should.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

And the vacillation between staying and leaving- normal. Every once in a while my H says something so incredibly stupid/insensitive that i question why I am here- last night for example. But I remind myself that if he was the opitimy of maturity this probably wouldnt have happened in the first place....


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Did you ever tell her husband? If not, you should.


Yes, but she told her husband first. After my husband told her I had discovered emails, she told her husband, but it was apparent to me she minimized. She was afraid he'd "freak", as she told me.

I went to visit him one morning on a whim (or intuition, or leading, or....) after having gone through the phone records and realizing the communication via phone was much more than I had been told. (Idea thx to this site.) So, I "exposed" to him without realizing what I was doing. And it was VERY, VERY effective. Lol!


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> And the vacillation between staying and leaving- normal. Every once in a while my H says something so incredibly stupid/insensitive that i question why I am here- last night for example. But I remind myself that if he was the opitimy of maturity this probably wouldnt have happened in the first place....


Well, it's ALWAYS good to hear you're not the only one. And Canttrustu, that's a good thing to remember. And it's so even and rational. I need to get my rational thinking cap on. 

The clueless bit does seem to set things back a bit, doesn't it? Like this weekend, a string of little things (to some they would say I was henpecking or being over-reactive. And yes, they're little! Half of me says, 'give me/him a break'.)

To me, I know what they represent/can represent, his thinking of only himself and his needs. Leaving the dishes in the sink and ignoring them, because subconciously he knows I'll do them. At our son's birthday at a museum, letting me follow all the kids through the museum, 8 boys, while he lagged behind taking in the exhibits. This morning taking his pants off the bed while I'm making it and starting to walk out of the room instead of jumping in to help me.... clueless. 

During this whole period he's been so much better about pitching in without being asked (and in the past I wouldn't ask and then just stew)....and then over the weekend, just these little things adding up that tell me he's focusing on just what HE needs or wants. Things like this when they're all strung together (on top of the work thing) on top of him saying he wants to talk to me about a business trip to visit a client.... it all adds up. Hyper-sensitive, hyper-vigilant. I just don't like it. I don't wanna be this person. I don't want to live this life where things like these seem to matter. We all make mistakes. We all have strengths and weaknesses, but in his case, NOW, it makes me think he's slipping back. (And yes, we talk, and talk about it.) Sometimes I get tired of the "I'm not perfect, I'm going to make mistakes." While true, I think we both get tired of having these conversations. 

Can't we just fast forward to being old and toothless, sitting in our rocking chairs making a meal out of applesauce and thinking about our grandkids graduating from college? (If I make it that long?)


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

here I'll make you feel better but just this once. ...

So last night I said something to it and he kind of said "i didnt realize how deep I'd gotten..." ok... so I said "well, I mentioned that youre relationship w/her seemed inappropriate to me in Nov" ..........TO WHICH HE REPLIED " Well I dont think it wouldnt have escalated the point that it did as quickly as it did if you hadnt said anything. It would have taken another 6 mos or so..."

SO IN OTHER WORDS IF I'D JUST SHUT THE hell up it wouldnt have been NEARLY this big of a mess!!!!?????!!!???? UMMMM:scratchhead: Yes I was watching it. REading his email, VAR and all Phone I knew he was ramping it up which is WHY I said something. I'd kept my mouth shut for months already!!! UFB! 

Truly stupid. Now I dont think he believes that for a minute. But it was blameshifting at its finest....A definate step back.

Feel better???


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Even thought about separation last week, crazy thoughts. Not so much now but I don't want to be a policewoman. I don't want to monitor. When he slips back into selfishness (putting his needs above ours)
> 
> I don't want to feel resentment, even if he recognizes it or apologizes.
> 
> ...


I really see your point. Who wants to play policeman all their lives to a spouse. 

That is why I filed. 

I am wondering if a separation might do you good. 

Separating is very empowering. 

I agree, too, if people are going to cheat they will and once someone has shown that proclivity and has shown that they will go back three times to this same person seeking ego strokes or sex or whatever with so little regard for your feelings, why bother with reconciliation. 

My STBEH and I also had more than one Dday. 

I gave him a chance and he screwed up. 

There are so many people out there who do respect their vows. 

And, in my situation all the MCs and ICs said I was giving too much, and needed to learn to take more. 

My husband was labeled by them as a blameshifter, immature and highly naricissistic with a sense of entitlement. 

Personally I would rather be alone. I am enjoying my alone time, and I am not even interested in dating at this point. 

If you are still vacillating, why not try a legal separation if they have one in your state?

Living a life of doubt and mistrust and checking up on the one person in the world your suppose to be able to trust more than anyone, can really destroy your soul and spirit.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> here I'll make you feel better but just this once. ...
> .........
> 
> Feel better???


Okay! That's a good one.:rofl: You def have me beat on that! I'm so sorry, but yeah, wow. (And yet, different words, similar feeling.) 
That really is a doozie your M laid down last night. Yup. Clueless. It's amazing that they really think that some of that stuff flies, or helps. Ridiculous! Gotta love to hate the blameshifting. Oh....I could write a goodie right now, to make you feel better but my kid is begging to go to GameStop. 

Awesome help cantrustu.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Okay! That's a good one.:rofl: You def have me beat on that! I'm so sorry, but yeah, wow. (And yet, different words, similar feeling.)
> That really is a doozie your M laid down last night. Yup. Clueless. It's amazing that they really think that some of that stuff flies, or helps. Ridiculous! Gotta love to hate the blameshifting. Oh....I could write a goodie right now, to make you feel better but my kid is begging to go to GameStop.
> 
> Awesome help cantrustu.


yah, today we talked about it. He realizes just how stupid it was to say. What he really meant was he wasnt about to let little ole' me tell big smart him what to do....

He said this is true. He thinks he's the smartest one in the room. But wow, Why even say what he said??? PURE STUPIDITY! 
And just to add- this is the the second time he has blameshifted. The first time was in the beginning when I asked him why and his answer was "well I talked to her about work b/c you wouldnt let me talk about it to you"...... UM NO. And If you were only talking about WORK we wouldnt be here now would we????

I sometimes wish I had stock in duct tape.....


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I am wondering if a separation might do you good.
> --------
> My STBEH and I also had more than one Dday.
> -------
> Living a life of doubt and mistrust and checking up on the one person in the world your suppose to be able to trust more than anyone, can really destroy your soul and spirit.


Hi Sara8,

I didn't see your post when you first wrote....I have to admit, I felt a bit of sting when I read it, though I totally understand! I'm just not ready for a separation, primarily for the sake of my children. I decided to give him another chance. I chose to forgive (but not blind trust). And to the best of my knowledge he is being transparent with me. I do believe that this emotional affair is over. 

BUT what comes down the pike? I know that despite people's best intentions that unless you have a tenacious desire to turn it around that old patterns, weaknesses will come knocking on the door. And that's where I can't be the policewoman. It's his walk. He has to answer to his kids, his parents (who he fessed up to), me (if he choses) but ultimately it's between him and One who sees everything. As we all know despite spiritual convictions people plummit. 

But I do know it's possible! My dad turned it around (and it was with an internal change). I've also seen the effects of not giving it a shot on kids. 

My brother, the last person anyone expected to be unfaithful, was to his college sweetheart, the love of his life and wife of 13 years. He lost it. When they became pregnant with their first they had issues in their marriage that weren't addressed. She had made her work her first priority, and he became withdrawn and depressed and just checked out. He dealt with it by going outside the marriage in a MAJOR way. We all told him if he stepped out he'd lose everything and wouldn't be able to get her back. He did, and she left. It was like a death in the family. When she moved away pregnant with their first and only child it snapped him out of it and he wanted to reconcile, begged, the usual. Went to a treatment center and marriage in-house therapy but she wouldn't go with him. She feigned wanting to reconcile and waited for a year after establishing residency in her new state and then divorced him. What my brother put her through was disgusting, awful, heinous, a heartwrenching betrayal. He tried to get her back and there was no chance of it. The sad thing is you can see the effects on their daughter. You can also tell his xwife#1 has unresolved anger, resentments and in some ways she's influenced their daughter to almost avoid her dad. (He does too btw.) She calls all the shots and he let's her because he says it's the consequence of what he did. The whole thing is tragic. During his second marriage, the karma bus hit him. His second wife cheated with the husband of a good friend who lived across the street. Two destroyed marriages and kids affected because of infidelity. So my niece and nephews are affected by these divorces and cheating and I can see the sadness with them.

So, I want to give it a shot. But I'm no dummy. I never have been. I've always seen the crap. I know that either our reconcilliation will work (and we'll have to do major work for that to happen) or it won't and then I can tell my kids I did everything in my power, on my end to keep our marriage together. But if he starts up again, with the OW or anyone else, then that's it. I just hope we can work through it like my parents did. Time will tell. I have NO doubt though if anything does happen that it will come to light. 

We've both read Shirley Glass' book as well as another book our counselor gave us....Putting those principles into practice is the key and the constant challenge.

That's a very long, verbose way for me to circle back and say THANK YOU for your thoughtful words and I know at the bottom of your advice is concern for those of us who've experienced similar scenarios to not end up in the same trap. Thank you. Multiple D-days suck. The first was a confrontation without tangible evidence...just what I observed. The second was discovering emails and confronting with them. The third wasn't a discovery of anything new....as in continued communication, but rather uncovering more phone calls/txts during the affair than I had been led to believe there were, part of the trickle truth. So I guess there were two true d-days. It's inconsequential really in that it doesn't change the fact that my husband is capable of lying and blameshifting and trickle truth and so on. He says he never wants to go back there. He wants his family together. That he loves me and wants to do whatever it takes for us to be together. It's up to him to make his walk match his talk.

Phew...I'm just so dang verbose. I apologize. Thank you again Sara8.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> yah, today we talked about it. He realizes just how stupid it was to say. What he really meant was he wasnt about to let little ole' me tell big smart him what to do....
> 
> He said this is true. He thinks he's the smartest one in the room. But wow, Why even say what he said??? PURE STUPIDITY!
> And just to add- this is the the second time he has blameshifted. The first time was in the beginning when I asked him why and his answer was "well I talked to her about work b/c you wouldnt let me talk about it to you"...... UM NO. And If you were only talking about WORK we wouldnt be here now would we????
> ...


Oh good grief! I got the same thing: "She understands the pressures I go through at work". That was a crock of blameshifting mierd_! I was always asking him about work and he didn't want to talk about it. 

You crack me up -- duct tape stock would be good. But ya know you need it for the mouth AND when they're blowing smoke out their a_s.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> oh good grief! I got the same thing: "she understands the pressures i go through at work". That was a crock of blameshifting mierd_! I was always asking him about work and he didn't want to talk about it.
> 
> You crack me up -- duct tape stock would be good. But ya know you need it for the mouth and when they're blowing smoke out their a_s.


bingo sister!


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Well I'm feeling low today -- and instead I should be elated. Today is the OW's last day at work. Almost 9 months after DD#2 when I uncovered the emails that confirmed my suspicions that they had a little thing goin' on. 

There's a going away party for her after work and thankfully and conveniently my husband has a board meeting and won't (of course) be attending. He just called me because a card is circulating the department for the farewell and he called so we could address how to handle the card together. That's how things are with us these days -- We've been tackling these things together, and I'm so grateful. I'm on the inside and she's on the outside. And though he is still actively looking for a new job he'll now be able to walk to the other end of the floor without fear of bumping into her. I'm hoping his texts and calls throughout the day continue. I hope the good that's come out of this wreckage (wake-up call with our marriage...now HE gets it. We both do.) remains and we build on it. 

Today is such a reminder that a year ago I had suspicious feeling about her that I already knew in my gut were founded. I still have the big months of Dec, and worse, Jan and Feb to get through, but I'm so grateful December will be free of the "contact" messages letting me know he heard her voice by the elevator, etc. 

I really started to spiral last night and it started to not go so well but we dug out -- and he stuck it out with me. Frankly I'm so tired of "me" and "I" and having to deal with all the stupid junk this has added to our already complicated lives. 

To those wondering -- he is relieved and very glad that she is on her way out. He doesn't want anything to do with her (whereas early on he did.) (This was part of my spiral last night because I couldn't understand how it couldn't be affecting him at all in the ways I would assume. He's so ashamed and remorseful about how he almost blew up our family that he wants all of this purged from our lives -- Of course this is natural. I do too. But I also want to know it'll never happen again and despite his affirmations that it won't, we all know, time will be it's defender or betrayer. I'm hoping for the former.

Next on the docket is the polygraph. That has me depressed too. It'll probably happen in a couple of weeks. We're nailing down the date. It's a load of money. I expect my husband to pass. But he wants to settle any nagging doubts I have, and so do I. But it really sucks. The polygrapher is former NSA so, yeah, even Robert DeNiro in the Fockers couldn't top this guy. Part of me wants to keep my husband from the wires, but no, we're gonna rig him like a Christmas tree and cross our "t's" and dot our "i's".

Bis bald.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Well I'm feeling low today -- and instead I should be elated. Today is the OW's last day at work. Almost 9 months after DD#2 when I uncovered the emails that confirmed my suspicions that they had a little thing goin' on.
> 
> There's a going away party for her after work and thankfully and conveniently my husband has a board meeting and won't (of course) be attending. He just called me because a card is circulating the department for the farewell and he called so we could address how to handle the card together. That's how things are with us these days -- We've been tackling these things together, and I'm so grateful. I'm on the inside and she's on the outside. And though he is still actively looking for a new job he'll now be able to walk to the other end of the floor without fear of bumping into her. I'm hoping his texts and calls throughout the day continue. I hope the good that's come out of this wreckage (wake-up call with our marriage...now HE gets it. We both do.) remains and we build on it.
> 
> ...


Sun, first Im so glad NC starts tomorrow! Its a new beginning. However I do understand how it is a reminder of how you got here. You feel angry that you have to be so glad that one person is leaving. angry that you even care. It shouldnt matter. It shouldnt have happened. But the fact is it did. After today she will start to become a part of the past instead of the present. No more calls about seeing her or hearing her. I so get that- H and I had the same agreement- any interaction is reported. I got so sick of hearing it I started avoiding my phone. so it will be a welcome relief for all contact from him to be "just because". 

As for the polygraph, have you decided on your 3 questions? do you think this will help you truly move forward?


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> As for the polygraph, have you decided on your 3 questions? do you think this will help you truly move forward?


Thx for all your good words. Yeah, it'll be a relief, no more C!

(hmmm, what does the 'c' stand for? :rofl

And....re the polygraph I spoke with the polygrapher yesterday...it's not limited to 3 questions with him....it's a single line of questioning. So I'll email him my thoughts/story/things I'd like answered and we'll pound out the line of questioning and he'll take it from there. He said though he only handles one line of questioning at a time. So I have to figure out the core need.

And will it help? I expect him to pass. I do think it'll help just put it to rest. He wants it more than I do and as I understand it, that's a good sign. But I want to know that I know that I know that nothing physical ever happened or even came close to happening --- ie, they started in and pulled back, etc. (Though I do think now he would tell me.) I wanna know if I'm missing anything about that work retreat.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Thx for all your good words. Yeah, it'll be a relief, no more C!
> 
> (hmmm, what does the 'c' stand for? :rofl
> 
> ...


Ok. All perfectly understandable. I'd want to know too. So youre gonna concentrate on the retreat and the possible PA of it? I think thats usually the real crux of most WS' questions. "would you have if you could have" and "did you ever come close" kind of questions. I can get that. 

He's gonna pass Sun. You know that. with some of the things he's admitted to that he didnt have to I dont think he's lying anymore. Nor do you. But youre right to wipe out any doubt. 

so let me ask you, did he sign the card? Please say no.


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sun - I have to apologize and read your whole story...a poly - I had no idea....but he is going through with it, so that is great!

As for the current situation and triggers - try to look at it this way - like the OW in my story - where is the OW in yours now - she is no better off than she was 1 year ago, and in fact, she isn't even in the same place any more - and although it stinks that she has been around your hubs up until now, think of how miserable she must be having to be around him and knowing that she didn't have what it took to keep him down. She might have felt she won in the beginning, but you proved her wrong - "In your face, b**ch!" (of course I am not saying that TO YOU...I am suggesting that you scream that to the high heavens....it will make you feel good - even just for a second - trust me


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> so let me ask you, did he sign the card? Please say no.


oh CTU -- you ask all the hard questions. I was hoping that one would just slide under the door. But noooooo, you can't just let the good ones go, can you?

i'm a loser. He's the head of the department. He's not going to the party. He's been avoiding her at all costs. He's not participating in the other stuff. Though I know there's a vibe in his office about it (I didn't go to HR), I thought from the professional standpoint it would be really bad form if he didn't sign the card as head of the department. So we came up with some language together for him to sign. I'm really close with his secretary so I have a friend on the inside CTU.

What's that? What's that you ask? What was the language we came up with together? "Ding dong the witch is dead....." No, it was something to the effect of "good for you for focusing on what's most important, your family" --- but not exactly those words.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Sun - I have to apologize and read your whole story...a poly - I had no idea....but he is going through with it, so that is great!
> 
> As for the current situation and triggers - try to look at it this way - like the OW in my story - where is the OW in yours now - she is no better off than she was 1 year ago, and in fact, she isn't even in the same place any more - and although it stinks that she has been around your hubs up until now, think of how miserable she must be having to be around him and knowing that she didn't have what it took to keep him down. She might have felt she won in the beginning, but you proved her wrong - "In your face, b**ch!" (of course I am not saying that TO YOU...I am suggesting that you scream that to the high heavens....it will make you feel good - even just for a second - trust me


thanks awesome Sun....and no worries about reading the thread. it's full of fluff. i know that stuff will make me feel better, and i've done it. the hard part is I also go back to the time when we were friends. I was friends with OW -- our kids were at the same school. But as she ended up on the 'in' and i was 'out' i could sense a smug attitude with her....that's the bayatch part. The person she was years before --- that's the person i liked. i hope for the sake of her husband and kids she takes this SAHM thing seriously.


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

So sorry...see I didn't read all of that. Take heart that you are not the type of lady and friend who crosses the line. That says way more than an obviously toxic person who does that to a friend, but more importantly, her family....kind words for you, roasting for OW. 

She is not your problem now. Her poor children. Have a moment (just a moment) of pity for her family and then remember why you chose to stay for yours. Now that you slayed the beast, what are you going to do next?


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Now that you slayed the beast, what are you going to do next?


1. Watch
2. Continue with counseling
3. Watch
4. Try to work as a team and love my husband
5. Watch
6. Work on myself
7. Love my children
8. Watch
9. Did I say "watch"?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> oh CTU -- you ask all the hard questions. I was hoping that one would just slide under the door. But noooooo, you can't just let the good ones go, can you?
> 
> i'm a loser. He's the head of the department. He's not going to the party. He's been avoiding her at all costs. He's not participating in the other stuff. Though I know there's a vibe in his office about it (I didn't go to HR), I thought from the professional standpoint it would be really bad form if he didn't sign the card as head of the department. So we came up with some language together for him to sign. I'm really close with his secretary so I have a friend on the inside CTU.
> 
> What's that? What's that you ask? What was the language we came up with together? "Ding dong the witch is dead....." No, it was something to the effect of "good for you for focusing on what's most important, your family" --- but not exactly those words.


sorry, the last couple of years have trained me well for drilling down to the hard stuff. The nitty gritty of it all. sorry if you just wanted to let it go you should have just ignored me.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

http://currentincarmel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/fireworks4.jpg

NC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How ya feeling today????


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> http://currentincarmel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/fireworks4.jpg
> 
> NC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How ya feeling today????


Waiting for it to sink in! Here's a trigger for you "You're the bomb" -- I was gonna type that but nooooo, had to hesitate because he wrote that to her a couple of times. bleck.

But to the important stuff....You're awesome.... thx for the fireworks. It is a GOOD day....and I hope it sinks in. Better today than yesterday. To think it's safe for me to go in there now. I may just pop in soon. :smthumbup:


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Great idea! Get all gussied up and drop in there! Do it! 

How's it going otherwise?


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Great idea! Get all gussied up and drop in there! Do it!
> 
> How's it going otherwise?


Bring 'em lunch in a picnic basket 

And I've been taking a mini-TAM break. Just broke out of a straight flush of awful, awful triggers. Poor guy. I was a wreck and terrible to be around. Today I finally feel better and out of it, but dang that was a doozie. Not dissimilar to yours only I didn't write about it. Our counselor actually thinks I need to be careful with how much time I spend here lest I trigger. Ha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Bring 'em lunch in a picnic basket
> 
> And I've been taking a mini-TAM break. Just broke out of a straight flush of awful, awful triggers. Poor guy. I was a wreck and terrible to be around. Today I finally feel better and out of it, but dang that was a doozie. Not dissimilar to yours only I didn't write about it. Our counselor actually thinks I need to be careful with how much time I spend here lest I trigger. Ha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree to some degree about TAM can cause triggers. Also, I think therapists dont like sites like these bc sometimes it lessens your need for them.....


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I agree to some degree about TAM can cause triggers. Also, I think therapists dont like sites like these bc sometimes it lessens your need for them.....


True... very. But her point was that I should be turning to my husband and working through things with him FIRST instead of folk here (-: Of course there are only things that folk here will understand from a BS perspective. My H actually defended TAM to some extent telling our MC that it had been helpful to me. (though he did reference the site to begin with....:scratchhead


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> True... very. But her point was that I should be turning to my husband and working through things with him FIRST instead of folk here (-: Of course there are only things that folk here will understand from a BS perspective. My H actually defended TAM to some extent telling our MC that it had been helpful to me. (though he did reference the site to begin with....:scratchhead


Yep. There are things that only another BS can understand. I mean truly. Because they have likely felt the same damned thing. A WS can *empathize* but only another BS can *sympathize.* Its like talking to someone about a particular physical pain like say a broken bone- they can imagine it but unless they've had a broken bone they can only imagine it but they cant actually fathom it.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Yep. There are things that only another BS can understand. I mean truly. Because they have likely felt the same damned thing. A WS can *empathize* but only another BS can *sympathize.* Its like talking to someone about a particular physical pain like say a broken bone- they can imagine it but unless they've had a broken bone they can only imagine it but they cant actually fathom it.


Exacto!


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Elly73 said:


> Hi Sunny, Good to read your positive updates, though I do understand how the farewell obviously brings up a lot of emotions. This is the beginning of proper NC though so that is very positive! I am so happy to read all of this!  I think you are very safe in believing your H is sincerely remorseful and completely over that awful woman. That said I notice you said in a recent post you will be watching very carefully. Do you believe he could ever slip? I wonder how many men who actually themselves instigate NC actually then get in contact with the OW again. I personally think your H seems to have really turned the corner - but just curious why you mentioned the 'watching'. Is it common even the men who most strictly themselves insist on NC do actually fail? Anyways, very happy to read your update! Elly


Well -- I'd be foolish not to keep my eyes and ears open. I think we'll be there for a while (and my husband knows and expects this). I don't check his emails and texts like I once did, but once in a blue moon I'll have a look. At this stage if he were to re-establish contact it would be through some other avenue because he knows I have access to all of the "regular" sources. What I watch is the way he communicates, whether or not he makes eye contact with me, if he brushes by hurriedly the way he used to when he comes home. So far, no. But I would imagine for sometime I'll be reading him. (And he is constantly "reading" me...) 

Unfortunately after all the reading I know that these things are quite powerful and so it's a rare thing when the attraction/pull of the other person is killed so tersely. (There are some -- a few --posters here who were WSs and have had that experience and it's encouraging to hear that it *can* happen. What we do know is that in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't happen.) As to whether or not my husband could go back to this type of thing -- he is adamant that it will NEVER happen again and is intent on proving it by how he lives his life and loves his family. As we both know, unless the core roots of these things are addressed then the tendency for erosion is quite possible. It will take vigilance on both our ends. No rugsweeping.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I agree Sun. Once your spouse has proven that they can compartmentalize, deny, evade and omit you must to some degree always remain vigilant. Now, that vigilance will lessen as time goes on but one would be foolish to assume that it CANT ever happen again. Downright foolish. *Blind* trust is forever gone.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I agree Sun. Once your spouse has proven that they can compartmentalize, deny, evade and omit you must to some degree always remain vigilant. Now, that vigilance will lessen as time goes on but one would be foolish to assume that it CANT ever happen again. Downright foolish. *Blind* trust is forever gone.


Exactly. Geez -- you said it in 1/4 the words I did. Dang verbosity.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Exactly. Geez -- you said it in 1/4 the words I did. Dang verbosity.


Well I like your verbosity- I tend to be a bit too direct....


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Well I like your verbosity- I tend to be a bit too direct....


Oh we're just like snowflakes -- no two the same. (let me peel my tongue off the inside of my mouth.)

in all seriousness your directness is a very much needed gift round these parts.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Oh we're just like snowflakes -- no two the same. (let me peel my tongue off the inside of my mouth.)
> 
> in all seriousness your directness is a very much needed gift round these parts.


Awww. thanks- though some would disagree. Sometimes I believe you have to be cruel to be kind. In the words of another poster "I consider being too gentle to be cruel when speaking of infidelity. Better to be direct" He said something like that when he was VERY direct with me in the first week or two of coming here and I said "thank you for your advice. Next time dont be so gentle"(he had been very very blunt. Looking back he was right, sometimes the truth hurts but its necessary.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Sometimes I believe you have to be cruel to be kind.


You're just right. Some need a foghorn. The important thing is to have compassion -- and at least in dealings with me I haven't seen a lack of that :.) --- (That's my perky nose. ha!)

btw -- thanks for planting that 80's throwback. "Ya gotta be cool to be kiiiind!"


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> You're just right. Some need a foghorn. The important thing is to have compassion -- and at least in dealings with me I haven't seen a lack of that :.) --- (That's my perky nose. ha!)
> 
> btw -- thanks for planting that 80's throwback. "Ya gotta be cool to be kiiiind!"


Its hard to lack compassion when youve been where they are. The only thing that I find hard to be sympathetic toward is 'paralysis of analysis' sometimes you dont have to count how many spots there are to know its the chicken pox!


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Its hard to lack compassion when youve been where they are. The only thing that I find hard to be sympathetic toward is 'paralysis of analysis' sometimes you dont have to count how many spots there are to know its the chicken pox!


True, but not everybody processes information the same way. Some need loads of information to feel he/she is making a thoroughly informed decision. Others are good with simply "the spots on the leopard" and not the whole DNA sequence. The important thing in either scenario is to arrive at the correct/honest/true conclusion. 

When I was a kid my sister would go into a store and look at every article of clothing, feel the fabric, try it all on and she'd come out with one or two things that made her happy. It was tedious and painful. My motto was/is "veni, vidi, vici". I could make a decision in a quarter of the time and end up with something quickly that I liked (but not always as well made. But certainly spot on for me.) Both approaches were consistent with our personalities. 

Point being, the obvious. Sometimes paralysis by analysis is exactly that, and sometimes it's not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> True, but not everybody processes information the same way. Some need loads of information to feel he/she is making a thoroughly informed decision. Others are good with simply "the spots on the leopard" and not the whole DNA sequence. The important thing in either scenario is to arrive at the correct/honest/true conclusion.
> 
> When I was a kid my sister would go into a store and look at every article of clothing, feel the fabric, try it all on and she'd come out with one or two things that made her happy. It was tedious and painful. My motto was/is "veni, vidi, vici". I could make a decision in a quarter of the time and end up with something quickly that I liked (but not always as well made. But certainly spot on for me.) Both approaches were consistent with our personalities.
> 
> ...


Oh believe me Sun, I get needing the info. Trust me I got so much info about my H's affair while it was happening that it nearly short circuited my brain. BUT what Im saying is you can only asses so much before you take some forward motion. Watching the train wreck IOW is not quite as good as trying to prevent the trainwreck.

Yes. I agree alot is personality. But alot is fear to actually do what is necessary. thats where I have a problem. Once its proven that there is in fact a problem, you have to Do something. thats my only point. The vacillation for months on end before even taking any real steps is just prolonging the misery. NOW, with that said- I did take a while to get in the game bc I was in denial and had a sick child and another going off to college. But once I had my proof that he was indeed involved with her- GAME ON! 

But hey, thats just me. Everyone is different. I was merely expressing the one thing that grates on me here. I have no problem with analysis. It when you are paralyzed by the analysis that i get lost.

WE could volley this back and forth forever too. Its just something that I personally dont understand and I find very taxing. Others are good with it and thats ok too. I just tend to leave those threads once I get to the point where I feel like Im not helping bc of a personality difference or a clear difference of approach that is ongoing.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Oh believe me Sun, I get needing the info. Trust me I got so much info about my H's affair while it was happening that it nearly short circuited my brain. BUT what Im saying is you can only asses so much before you take some forward motion. Watching the train wreck IOW is not quite as good as trying to prevent the trainwreck.
> 
> Yes. I agree alot is personality. But alot is fear to actually do what is necessary. thats where I have a problem. Once its proven that there is in fact a problem, you have to Do something. thats my only point. The vacillation for months on end before even taking any real steps is just prolonging the misery. NOW, with that said- I did take a while to get in the game bc I was in denial and had a sick child and another going off to college. But once I had my proof that he was indeed involved with her- GAME ON!
> 
> ...


CTU, no need to volley--your explanation makes perfect sense and I couldn't agree more. (I'm not just saying that either. I think I misunderstood your take earlier, in a shade off.) 

And same here on the "proof" -- and Game On! I'm sure some here would say I exposed too soon, only the first I had no tangible evidence. It took me 4 days to get it and I confronted immediately. I didn't find TAM until two months later (doing obsessive research. And I had already learned about Shirley Glass) and then it took me two more months to post. This place has been amazing! And you my friend have been an enormous help. I can't say that enough. 

Time go check on the other Sun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

On another thought...I feel so benevolent this week compared to raging affair nazi last week and I've seen these types of swings all over TAM. I know part of it is PTS but yesterday it had me wondering if these affairs trigger the Manic in all of us. I would think if I were to see a psychologist without explaining the trauma and just a witness of the highs and lows, I'd quite possibly end up with a "manic" diagnosis. Can't wait to shake it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> On another thought...I feel so benevolent this week compared to raging affair nazi last week and I've seen these types of swings all over TAM. I know part of it is PTS but yesterday it had me wondering if these affairs trigger the Manic in all of us. I would think if I were to see a psychologist without explaining the trauma and just a witness of the highs and lows, I'd quite possibly end up with a "manic" diagnosis. Can't wait to shake it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha Ha or MPD(multiple personality disorder). My H would likely agree there over the past year.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Ha Ha or MPD(multiple personality disorder). My H would likely agree there over the past year.


Yup. Sybil.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Flunked
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Sorry to read what you went through that Sun.

If you ever feel that nudge, gut or radar feeling do not be afraid of first gathering evidence before confronting.

Some affairs will dig deeper underground.

When you think you have pulled the last weed several more appear. These tendencies will always be there. I'm not telling you to live a life in paranoia and as a private investigator but if you feel something is wrong, react to it, investigate. All too common "in tune" spouses know "when" and sometimes ignore. Later to find burner phones, secret emails, secret encounters, "lunch meetings", working "late", long grocery shopping times etc.

I am in no way trying to be debbie downer and I know you will keep working hard to take care of your health, husband and family.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Flunked
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hang in there Sun. Hopefully he's talking now and giving you the answers you need.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

what questions were asked?


----------



## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

I think it's important to point out that polygraph tests are not always accurate - some say as high as 20 - 30% results are wrong or inconclusive. While that means some can get away with lying - it also means some are telling the truth and are told they are lying. The accuracy of the results often depend on the person giving the test. This just needs to be said as so many hang their marriages on this kind of test. And its not failproof. 

I know this does not make it easier on you Sun - as the element of doubt has already been introduced. If he is lying - for your sake I hope he comes clean. If he is not, I hope he has a way of proving it to you so you can continue to move forward. 

I am sorry you are going through this!!!


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

how ya doin' Sun????


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

So I keep wanting to post....but I realize that I don't have the time to write everything I want to -- lucky for you all! 

We're just shy of a month after the flunked polygraph. It was really, really tough. He slept on the floor. I hit my last wall -- and honestly, something changed in me. He knows this time it was different for me. The results were pretty strong for "deception" --- and he maintains even now, that nothing physical happened. But right up to the polygraph he continued to lie about details of his affair, both kinds: lies and omissions. Things that one would normally say "gee, that's silly to lie about that", or "of course you did...that's what people do when they're obsessed with someone else." But then again, we're not talking about rational thinking.

For me, the tables flipped after this one. I love him, very much, but I am no longer more in love with him than he is with me, and IMO that's good. 

He maintains (and I believe him, though I have moments of doubt that there are still details for him to tell me) that he never had any physical sexual contact with her. But he had opportunity. Lots. But he didn't. (I've now done more research on polygraphs, and though they can be very reliable, the polygrapher told me that withholding pertinent info can still cause one to flunk. Our polygrapher is former NSA so he's no slackard.)

Post polygraph -- he dug up any memory he could -- going back to early 2010 when he first started developing feelings for her, told me of memories when he saw her and was turned on, conversations they had, events, details of the retreat when he put his arm around her waist two different times - ****tail party and when leaving. He told me of conversations they had about us (previously he said they never discussed our marriage) -- my cooking didn't measure up (She doesn't even cook...and as he knows and admits I'm a good cook. He was just using it....He's ashamed by this. His pain at the things he said and did are very palpable.) 

It took me a good solid week to even begin to soften up -- and a trip for Christmas to be with my family. We drove to my home state and I blossomed. I'm safe there. I'm loved, I'm secure, I'm in the driver's seat. And as we drove the 16 hours there he opened up to me about a lot of stuff. I'm sure (and hope) there will be more. 

We met with our counselor before we left and she gave us some Peggy Vaughn to read before he told her about his flunked polygraph. The timing was remarkable. The material even better. We go back this week, and I can't wait. To listen. 

We have work to do to repair our marriage....but he has the most. He finally owned up, in a real way, that many of these issues pre-dated me/us/our marriage and the roots go back there. I think he sees it and gets it. (I have healing to do from betrayals that pre-date our marriage...This has only exacerbated those.) 

And yesterday I started going through all of the old emails again and can see the flirting started in 2009. Boundaries were very, very bad. And he started a lot of it....You can almost see where she kicks in and then starts to get so needy. Funny thing is -- reading those now doesn't get me riled up the way they did before. It's gross. It's sad. They're two sorry people that got caught up in their own selfishness and nearly (and who knows if will) destroyed two families. We're both praying our family stays intact. We both want that. 

No matter what happens, I'll be okay. I want to reconcile, but my drive isn't all out like before. I'm devoted to trying. I'm devoted to forgiving him. I'm devoted to being "wise as a serpent, but harmless as a dove". (Though I mess up on the dove part, I want to.) 

He posted the other day -- Here's his thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/64666-i-have-faith-better-future.html

Again, I do love him.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

And NOW you will R for real bc you are willing to lose him. I know that sounds ridiculous but Im telling you Sun, thats when I turned the corner the most, when I was willing to lose him. Its when he felt it, when I basically said "thats it. Its my way or the highway. We've been doing it your way and look where we are".

This is the moment, as much as you dont believe it that you can turn the corner. You can think rationally. You arent so deep in the agony that you cant function. You know you can live w/o him and better yet, so does he. Now is the time for him to take hold and work his fool ass off if he wants to keep his family.

Btw/ does he plan to follow up on his thread? Im sure he could learn alot here.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Sorry to read what you went through that Sun.
> 
> If you ever feel that nudge, gut or radar feeling do not be afraid of first gathering evidence before confronting.
> 
> ...


Thx Cleanjerksnatch (what does that mean btw?) ... I appreciate the sage words of caution. I'm looking to have my own fog lifted. A lot, (I think?) left mid-Dec. I'm not taking anything for granted now. It's on him. Party's over. Thx again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Hang in there Sun. Hopefully he's talking now and giving you the answers you need.


Some -- I' still don't have that settled feeling like I know everything. Stay tuned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> what questions were asked?


I'd have to dig up my notes but I had an extensive conversation with the polygrapher post test, the next day. He went through the whole process with me: control questions, key questions, etc. The key question that he had the strongest reaction to was "During Permilia Bumburrow's employment at 'Company' did you have any kind of sexual contact?"

That was a flunk. He has told me he thought he'd pass the issue of sex because he didn't have any but could continue to not give info about other "stuff" because it wasn't sex. 

Mind you his guilt was/is enormous. And his fantasy life rich.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

mary35 said:


> I think it's important to point out that polygraph tests are not always accurate - some say as high as 20 - 30% results are wrong or inconclusive. While that means some can get away with lying - it also means some are telling the truth and are told they are lying. The accuracy of the results often depend on the person giving the test. This just needs to be said as so many hang their marriages on this kind of test. And its not failproof.
> 
> I know this does not make it easier on you Sun - as the element of doubt has already been introduced. If he is lying - for your sake I hope he comes clean. If he is not, I hope he has a way of proving it to you so you can continue to move forward.
> 
> I am sorry you are going through this!!!


And as crazy as it may sound, I do think it was. I did more research on polygraph tests and read this one case of a man who was accused of murdering his wife. He flunked twice, two false positives. He was exonerated when the true killer confessed. The husbands, anxiety, emotional, bio reactions were so strong that he flunked. 

I gave my husband opportunities to cancel the polygraph. It was such a stress on us both. He was insistent on taking it because he wanted to settle the issue and do it for me. But he was scared and afraid of effects on our marriage if he didn't pass. And his fears were realized. This has been very, very hard on us. And hard for me to re-bound from. He is committed to seeing it through and has mentally prepared himself that I may always have doubts. I don't want to stay in this place. I want us to heal. It's really hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> And as crazy as it may sound, I do think it was. I did more research on polygraph tests and read this one case of a man who was accused of murdering his wife. He flunked twice, two false positives. He was exonerated when the true killer confessed. The husbands, anxiety, emotional, bio reactions were so strong that he flunked.
> 
> I gave my husband opportunities to cancel the polygraph. It was such a stress on us both. He was insistent on taking it because he wanted to settle the issue and do it for me. But he was scared and afraid of effects on our marriage if he didn't pass. And his fears were realized. This has been very, very hard on us. And hard for me to re-bound from. He is committed to seeing it through and has mentally prepared himself that I may always have doubts. I don't want to stay in this place. I want us to heal. It's really hard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So after saying this- would you still do the poly again?


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> So after saying this- would you still do the poly again?


Honestly? Yes. But only after some significant time after NC
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

