# What to do, and did I do the wrong thing?



## stamtaja (Apr 24, 2012)

A little background – 

I am 44, my wife is 42, have been together for coming up on 23 years, we dated off and on for 7 years before we got married. During that time we were the best of friends, worked together and hung out.. there was about a 2 year stretch while we were dating that she told me that she wanted a break, and wasn’t “in love” with me. During that two years she ended up getting pregnant and having the baby. We started seeing each other again, and things moved forward where we decided to get married.. I adopted the child, and have raised her. My daughter knows that I am not her biological father, but has had no contact with him.

Fast forward to today, our daughter is 17 heading to college in the fall, we are supposed to celebrate our 15 yr anniversary this year. We also have a son who is 13. We have had good times and bad, as any marriage, and for the past few years we have drifted apart, seeming like we are more roommates than spouses. With the economy ups and downs financially we had some hard times, but are currently on the upswing. We have money in the bank, own our home which has equity, and own 2 upside down rental properties.

During the drifting apart, some major events have included a loss of job, my brother’s death, and a few more less impacting events.

We sat down on talked a couple of weeks ago, at my request to talk about “us”, where we were heading, what we want, what has happened in our lives. She brought up how she has been feeling the same and thinks we should possibly separate. She states she needs time to find out what makes her happy, and that we are no longer “in love” and she doesn’t know if we were ever “in love”. She says she still “loves me” and is “concerned about the kids” especially the youngest who is going to have to live through whatever happens. He will not be away at school like my daughter.

This happened the week after she had been in Disney World with the neighbors and kids. It turns out a friend of ours from high school lives there, and they went out.. She met a “friend” and have been texting and speaking on the phone for the past 3 weeks, multiple times a day.

I was calm and collected and asked her about the phone number and name. Again she says it is “safe” and he is just a person that was easy to talk to, there is nothing there, since he is 1000 miles away.

She had to go back to work, and we are going to get together to talk again this afternoon, but during that time I called the “friend”, and spoke to him. He didn’t answer my call at first and I think he called her before returning it. We spoke and he assured me nothing happened, and that he just thought of her as a friend, and they are able to just talk. He was aware of our current issues, and apologized if he caused any of it.

Couple of questions..

Are we doomed? I have to say that I do still love my wife, can I answer the question if we are “in love”, I don’t know. I have always pictured us growing old together. In fact our wedding song was “Grow Old with Me” (never thought about that, until now)

Has anyone been in the same type of situation and it worked out? 

Do I just let her leave in the separation? I am not convinced of old saying of “separation makes the heart grow fonder”

Did I screw up by calling the “friend”?

While we do have our issues, does counseling work in this type situation? We obviously and both acknowledge that we have friendship and love each other, but can we re-kindle a spark?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

> This happened the week after she had been in Disney World with the neighbors and kids. It turns out a friend of ours from high school lives there, and they went out.. She met a “friend” and have been texting and speaking on the phone for the past 3 weeks, multiple times a day.


You got the ILYBNILWY speech. Also she has gone out with another man. And she is texting someone else. So likely you have a third person in your marriage. At the very least she is wanting to pursue other men. Is going out with other people ok in your relationship? How convenient she looked up this guy. He just happened to be available.

I am not a believer in separations in these cases. I think all it does is enable affairs. Especially in these cases. Cake eating at the least.

In a cynical way you have already done what you can do for her. You helped raise her child. She is looking to trade up now or just flat look for greener pastures. Realize that there is history re-writing going on. What a cruel thing for someone to say they never loved you. But this is common.

So if I were you I would continue investigating but not go for a separation. it would either be actively working on the marriage or divorce. 

Too bad you did not go to Disney with her. She planned this you know. Meeting the other guy.

Instigation -- the trip was planned
Isolation -- She was isolated from you alonge with this guy
Escalation -- The went out together at the least. Who knows what else. You have no idea.

Instigation -- ILYBNILWY speech
Isolation -- Separation
Escalation -- TBD, you do the math

The friend is aware of your current issues. Wow. She shared this with anither man. How nice. He also admitted that he may have caused some of your marital issues. Sweet.

See www.marriedmansexlife.com

Yes one can rekindle spark. BUT, if the resentment is so built up within her she may be done.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

stamtaja said:


> can we re-kindle a spark?


Not until the affair ends.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your not doomed, but the OM (other man) has to be completely out of the picture.

You confronted to early, so for now you need to find the real truth to this "friend ship"

Since you made the move and confronted they most likely will cool down. Even though your wife wants out, there is this OM that is effecting the dynamics.

I suggest you investigate the extent of this affair by installing a keylogger, and planting a VAR (voice activated recorder).

I believe they had relations during her trip and it solidified the affair and now she rewrites history.

Most likely she was in this EA long before her trip but now the OM is saying all the right things and feeding her fantasy.

For now let her go emotional, seperate all the accounts and serve her with papers. This tactic will bring her closer to the reality and the consequences to her dicision.

There is a good chance that reality will set in and once you expose the A to the OM wife or GF, then she may rethink her choices once the OM start to fight for his relationship and bails on your W.

let her go emotionaly
prove affair by investigating
expose affair to OM SO (significant other)
sees you moving on and W gets scared

Do not beg or cry for the marriage. The perception of you moving on with confidence and no longer friend.... will get her to second guess and think twice about what she is going to lose.

OM has to be completely out of the picture!!!!!!!


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## stamtaja (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks for the quick reply... I guess while typing this, I didn't make myself clear..

What I meant for this to say is; 

She went to Disney with our neighbors and our kids. Due to work, I could not get down there. The first friend (female)was one who we both went to high school with. They went out to a bar on one of the last nights. The friend from high school was hooking up with someone and that left my wife sitting with this other guy... (the new friend) this is who she has been communicating with and who I called.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Separation is for her to explore her relationship with this person(s).

Agreed that the spark can be rekindled and more, but only if she's recommitted to the marriage.

As long as someone else is the repository of her hopes / dreams / fears, as long as they are her confidant and not you, you don't have a marriage except in name only.

Find out all you can about the OM(s). If they are married, have criminal backgrounds, etc.


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## stamtaja (Apr 24, 2012)

Follow up to this afternoon's conversation. BTW - I told my wife that I contacted the "new friend" she seemed shocked at first that I would call, but didn't stress over it. I believe it is still Emotional if it is not Physical.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

stamtaja, if the two of you were alone when you had the conversation where she revealed that "she's not in love" with you, then you should be making plans for YOUR future without her.
It's likely she has already moved on, mentally, if not physically.
my opinion


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Are you sure your wife just sat with OM at the bar?

Which phone is she using? Are you able to monitor the content of her texts/emails?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

stamtaja said:


> Follow up to this afternoon's conversation. BTW - I told my wife that I contacted the "new friend".


When your hunting something, it's best not to announce your presense. Screaming at the top of your lungs will send them underground in a hurry. Your grossly underestimating your quarry.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I think you should take a firm stand on the subject of seperation, if you want to work on the marriage. How can you work on marriage if she moves away? If she moves away, she is working on deciding whether to explore the OM, or choose you, or both. Since you posted this originally in the Considering Divorce section, my advice is to tell her that this idea of seperation is her choice, i.e. marriage or divorce.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Hmmmm left at the bar with the new friend that shes been texting.


very interesting.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

OK. You called OM and he did not answer. Obviously he knew the area code and maybe the town you were calling from, since it was not her number it is logical for him to suspect it was you.

So after he has had time to contact her and get the stories straight, he answers and gives you almost verbatim the same lines that she told you. Yeah - nothing suspicious here.

Just how long was she alone with this guy? It seems like he has your whole history and how did she hook up with this guy? Did the GF's date bring him along or did the girls both meet the guys at the bar? She is in an EA at least. Could have gone physical while the GF was occupied with another guy.

The lines that she is not in love with you and is not sure she ever was should be a big eye opener for you. She got you to raise OM's child and is confident that you will raise the boy. So she no longer needs you around. She wants her freedom.

Do not separate. That will get you nothing except prolonged pain and deception. Tell her if she wants her freedom then divorce is the way to go. Why delay the inevitable?

See an attorney. Go out with some of your friends. Show her that you will be OK without her in your life.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

She's gaslighting you, playing both ends of the field. If OM doesn't work out (during her finding herself and time apart from you) then you're the fall back guy. At that time she has finally realized that you were the only one she wanted and loved (financial security blanket).

If it works out with the OM, then you're out the door and she never looks back. Unless the relationship falls apart then she might (most don't but some do) come crawling back begging and pleading that she made a mistake.

Don't let her do what she wants, she chooses now and if she wants to explore the world outside and see what other men have to offer her then help her pack her bags and buy her a 1 way ticket to Disneyland because her fairytale story is there, not at your house.

My wife gave me time to get over it by ignoring it at the beginning and I nailed the OW from here to Vegas to TJ to LA and back. If she would have stood her ground I highly doubt I would have physically cheated on my wife. Close your eyes for even a second and you'll be sorry.

You caught it early so she's not in too deep yet. Let her find herself and you have just screwed yourself. Even if she comes back, she's coming back as damaged goods and you'll be damaged goods also. And it'll take a LONG time to fix your marriage, maybe it might not even be fixable anymore at that stage.

And to answer about getting the spark back, it's possible but it takes both of you to work at it. Just remember, it's not gonna be like the 4th of July if you do get it back. It's gonna more like lighting a LONG, LONG, LONG fuse to a bomb, it takes a while but the anticipation of waiting for it to blow is definitely worth it in the end.

Grab the book is his needs, her needs. Although I was the only one who read the damn book


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

stamtaja said:


> Thanks for the quick reply... I guess while typing this, I didn't make myself clear..
> 
> What I meant for this to say is;
> 
> She went to Disney with our neighbors and our kids. Due to work, I could not get down there. The first friend (female)was one who we both went to high school with. They went out to a bar on one of the last nights. The friend from high school was hooking up with someone and that left my wife sitting with this other guy... (the new friend) this is who she has been communicating with and who I called.


How convenient. 

So the friend from high schooll was hooking up with another guy and left your wife with this guy.

What a web we weave when we practive to deceive.

So you wife got picked up at a bar. Sweet.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

In order to make a reasonable decision, you have to know the facts. Right now, you don't know too much. You don't know much more than what your wife has told you.

Ask your wife to show you the texts between her and the other man. Her reply alone should tell you something. It would be natural of you to be suspicious of a stranger she met in a bar while her (married?) girlfriend was hooking up and with whom she has continued to keep in touch with since she's returned home. 

Why would this guy want to keep in touch with your wife? Why would your wife want to keep in touch with him?

It is possible that something physical occurred between them.

At this point, how much of her story do you even know is true?

Your wife is blaming her girlfriend on hooking up leaving your wife to sit alone. For all you know, it could have been the other way around, with your wife hooking up and leaving the girlfriend to sit around. This could have been a guy she met through Facebook, friends of friends, etc. How would you know?

Also, regarding him being 1000 miles away and safe, how do you know this? How do you know he doesn't travel on business to your area? Only because of what your wife told you.

I love you but I'm not in love with you almost always means there is another man. Cheaters follow a script, it really is remarkable how they all act the same. Your wife is following the script.

Betrayed spouses follow a script, also. Minimizing the cheating spouse's behavior, trying to come up with every implausible reason to explain it away, while ignoring the most simple and most obvious explanation - she has cheated.

Now, in your case, your wife is following the cheater's script, but you have absolutely no proof of it. For you to accuse her of cheating now would be futile.

Your wife's story does not make a lot of sense to me. She was at Disney with her (married?) girlfriend and your kids. They went to a bar. The girlfriend hooked up. Left alone, your wife stayed in the bar alone. A guy hit on her. She talked to the guy and developed a friendship. She has kept in touch with the guy. AND SHE NEVER MENTIONED A WORD OF IT UNTIL YOU ASKED HER ABOUT THE PHONE NUMBER. (Don't you think this is something your wife would have told you about right away? "OMG, you wouldn't believe it, so-and-so hooked up and left me alone. I just talked to this guy, he didn't hit on me, we just talked, it's all innocent, he's just a nice guy, do you want to see the texts between us?")

In any event, I don't think it is at all unreasonable for you to want to look at the texts, given the circumstances, and I think that any normal person would be able to understand why you feel the way you do, so if your wife acts like the request is completely unreasonable, that in and of itself would be a huge red flag. If she has nothing to hide, why wouldn't she show you the texts she's had with some relative stranger she met a few weeks ago.

Is the girlfriend who hooked up married? If so, where was her husband and does he know his wife cheated? Is the girlfriend the type who is always going out to bars to hook up? What is your wife's relationship with the girlfriend like? Must be pretty good friends to go to Disney together. Would the girlfriend be influencing your wife to dump you so the girlfriend could have a wing woman on her bar adventures?

About being "in love": Partners who are together for 23 years lose some of the "in love" feeling. I would define "in love" as infatuation, that butterfly-in-your-stomach, nervous-about-making-a-good-impression, will-the-other-person-want-you-as-much-as-you-want-them feeling. You may still have sexual attraction, you definitely have a deep committed love, you definitely do not have the "in love" infatuation feeling after 23 years. I don't know of anyone who does.

Ask your wife what she means by not having the "in love" feeling?

Do not separate from your wife at this point. It is better to stay together until you have more info. Separation and "needing space" is part of the cheater's script - it means they want freedom to carry on their affair (text, talk on phone, meet) more freely than they could with their betrayed spouse watching, while keeping open the option of returning to the betrayed spouse if things with the other man don't work out.

Be strong, confident and firm around your wife. Look your best. Be independent. Do not be needy, whiny, or wishy-washy.

Try to find out what the relationship is between her and the other man.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sorry but there is a very high chance she also hooked up with the OM down there. Now you say she is going back there ? Another hook up being planned right in front of you. 
I think I would explain you can't control her. But if she goes down there you will be filling for D. Because its obvious what she is up to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

what kind of phone is she doing the texting on.?


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## feelingallalone (Apr 2, 2012)

To me, it seems obvious that she wants the separation to engage in an affair with this man. With the texting/calls, an EA has already begun. Since nothing physical has happened, in your wife's mind, she hasn't broken fidelity (but she has by turning her emotional energy to this OM and bringing him into your marriage by talking about it with him - it is the start of infidelity). 

The separation will allow her in her mind to go full hog into a PA, because, you two would be separated. Your wife is approaching it this way because then in her mind, she won't be cheating on you.

If you separate, either one of two things will happen.

1. She will have her PA and then decide to divorce you, regardless if she stays with this OM.

2. She will have her PA and then decide to come back and give your marriage a try. Would you want her back after she went and gave her heart and body to another man?

I would make my stand now, if you want to try and save the marriage. Pretty clear that a separation will doom it, or you will take her back and forever be haunted as the cuckold in your marriage. You will always be wondering if she is cheating again, and good chance she will decide to cake eat with other men.


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