# Study investigates what women really want



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Study Investigates What Women Really Want | Yahoo! Health

And no doubt, our own sample of TAM females will want something else entirely.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Very interesting!! Seems like they found something that we don't cognitively realize we are using in selecting men.

I agree that the guy on the right is hotter than the guy on the left.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

For me the author defeats her own theories.


In that the guy on the right looks far more masculine than the guy on the left.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

AFEH said:


> For me the author defeats her own theories.
> 
> 
> In that the guy on the right looks far more masculine than the guy on the left.


Which is interesting because the composite image is a reflection of the guys with lesser levels of body fat and the strongest immune systems. Testosterone levels appeared to play no role in terms of _physical attraction_, which doesn't really surprise me.

*Looks down at his Thanksgiving belly*


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Ha,ha!
So I guess we are now entering the " new era" of masculinity?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I automatically chose the guy on the right because he looks healthier and more masculine.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

This is masculinity? I probably wouldn't notice either of them that way at all. They both look sickly to me.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I just have to laugh that people still to this day try to make generalizations about what half the population "wants"


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> This is masculinity? I probably wouldn't notice either of them that way at all. They both look sickly to me.


Me neither, CG, but the one on the right appears more so than the one on the left.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

It must be because of my age, but they both repulse me.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Ha,ha!
> So I guess we are now entering the " new era" of masculinity?


For me it's more like just another woman, the author, who doesn't like Masculinity.


_Contrary to what the immunocompetence theory would have predicted, the researchers found no correlation between a man’s masculinity rating and how sexy women found him._


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> It must be because of my age, but they both repulse me.


I prefer a far more masculine look, too. My partner looks like a furry viking


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Something about both of those pics looks kind of creepy.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

both of those dudes are creepy looking. I'll take option C...


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## needguidance (Aug 17, 2012)

I personally use to get more looks when I was about 25 lbs lighter, I had less facial hair, and boney at 6'0. Women just stopped flirting with me after I got more muscular, the five o'clock shadow started to even out, and my wife has no sexual desire now lol. Wtf!? Im sure my BMI is below 12 % but I guess it has to deal with weight too. I heard skinny men run the world, starting to believe it....


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

They look creepy because neither photo is of a real guy. Both are composites of multiple men.

And to reiterate, masculinity had little to do with attraction ... they found that body fat content was the determinant.

What I find most interesting is that people just hate being categorized ;-)


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> both of those dudes are creepy looking. I'll take option C...


Great Masculine role model. He’s the one who actually asks, no pleads, just about begs for sex. Yuk.


Great guy though. And really Nice. Exceptionally easy to manipulate and control, very "safe".


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Apparently my sexual activity is in direct defiance of biology.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Deejo said:


> They look creepy because neither photo is of a real guy. Both are composites of multiple men.
> 
> And to reiterate, masculinity had little to do with attraction ... they found that body fat content was the determinant.
> 
> What I find most interesting is that people just hate being categorized ;-)


They're just finding it impossible to abstract the images into the essence of what's being communicated. Taking it all in the first person. Nothing new there!



Often times I think it's being deliberately antagonistic. But then I think no, the women here would never be deliberately antagonistic.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

AFEH said:


> Great Masculine role model. He’s the one who actually asks, no pleads, just about begs for sex. Yuk.
> 
> 
> Great guy though. And really Nice. Exceptionally easy to manipulate and control, very "safe".


I think he's perfect...it's his b**ch girlfriend who needs to go. 

If he had a woman who appreciated him,he wouldn't need to plead,whine,ask,or beg for sex. It would just be there for him. 

A good woman won't manipulate or control...even when she knows she has a man who will let her do that.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> both of those dudes are creepy looking. I'll take option C...


I love him! Leonard's the best!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think he's perfect...it's his b**ch girlfriend who needs to go.
> 
> If he had a woman who appreciated him,he wouldn't need to plead,whine,ask,or beg for sex. It would just be there for him.
> 
> A good woman won't manipulate or control...even when she knows she has a man who will let her do that.


Ha! She does appreciate him. He just doesn’t turn her on. If fact he turns her right off. The guy’s truly dumb. Needs to Man Up lol.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

But as for the study, they both look sickly - the one on the R is slightly better looking but mostly because his face is a bit more chiseled - the guy on the L looks more feminine with the softly rounded chubby face. I wouldn't give either a second glance, honestly.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

AFEH said:


> Ha! She does appreciate him. He just doesn’t turn her on. If fact he turns her right off. The guy’s truly dumb. Needs to Man Up lol.


It's blatantly obvious she DOES NOT appreciate him.If he manned up,it might help him be happier with her bc she's the type of woman who can't appreciate a guy like that, but that isn't who he is...shouldn't he be loved,honored,appreciated for who he is?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

is there really a discussion about a TV relationship going on right now?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> is there really a discussion about a TV relationship going on right now?


more about the idea of the relationship because there are many relationships like that in real life. Where the guy is a completely adorable,devoted sweetheart and he's dating a b**ch on wheels who can't see the value in that sort of man.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Many women are attracted to men with lower body fat levels? 

Shocking.

Next thing you know, they'll be telling me many men are attracted to women with hour glass figures.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Go ahead. Categorize me. LMAO!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think he's perfect...it's his b**ch girlfriend who needs to go.
> 
> If he had a woman who appreciated him,he wouldn't need to plead,whine,ask,or beg for sex. It would just be there for him.
> 
> A good woman won't manipulate or control...even when she knows she has a man who will let her do that.


I love the way you think ScarletBegonias . Though in that picture, I don't think the man was striking good looking. 

Here is what it all boils down to for me..... I go for looks 1st... I like them thin & lanky....I've been told I like feminine features (I don't like hairy chests).... if he has* too much* testosterone - likely it is going to SCREW with his vasopressin , then he wouldn't be romantic enough for my tastes, he'd want to run all the damn time & wouldn't be the "pair bonded" content type I seek, those "one woman" man types. 

I just did a post with an article link - it ended with this.....


> But it's a delicate dance. The levels of testosterone and vasopressin interact with each other in complex ways.
> 
> The presence of testosterone can elevate the levels of vasopressin resulting in greater bonding but too much testosterone can depress levels of vasopressin resulting in less bonding.
> 
> This might explain why people with high levels of testosterone have tumultuous relationships, are more likely to stray and have high divorce rates.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

doesn't account for the chubby chasers I guess


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It's blatantly obvious she DOES NOT appreciate him.If he manned up,it might help him be happier with her bc she's the type of woman who can't appreciate a guy like that, but that isn't who he is...shouldn't he be loved,honored,appreciated for who he is?


Touched a soft spot lol.


If you’re sexually attracted to a nerd who pleads for sex, spends all of his spare time with other nerds playing their computer games and all the other stuff like comic book heroes then surely that’s your choice. To me he’s like a “grown boy”. Don’t get me wrong, I find the program very funny and I thoroughly enjoy it.


Even if you wanted to give him your sex, he would still ask you for it. Like “May I have sex please”. That puts Penny right off even when she’s ready for it. If it doesn’t put you off great.


Bottom line is if he wants Penny he has to up his game.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

AFEH said:


> Touched a soft spot lol.
> 
> 
> If you’re sexually attracted to a nerd who pleads for sex, spends all of his spare time with other nerds playing their computer games and all the other stuff like comic book heroes then surely that’s your choice. To me he’s like a “grown boy”. Don’t get me wrong, I find the program very funny and I thoroughly enjoy it.
> ...


 penny needs a new man then


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> penny needs a new man then


Yes. She sure doesn't want would be lover boy.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Many women are attracted to men with lower body fat levels?
> 
> Shocking.
> 
> Next thing you know, they'll be telling me many men are attracted to women with hour glass figures.


Personally it's not the body fat - it's the jaw line. I really don't like a weak jaw line. The most recent boyfriend had a nice jawline but was chunky. The dude on the left looks like he could be a girl. Soft little lips and soft round cheeks. Ug.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My husband would have been classified as a NERD in high school AFEH....Nice guy with big glasses, always had a smile on his face, good to everyone. Wasn't no girls stomping down his door....Didn't stop me from wanting him. He's never had any trouble getting me going - It was hard to keep my hands off. 

Not all men who  & are nice fall into this pitiful description you are painting here . 

Why does it bother YOU that some women say they like this type of man...of course your painting of them would not at all be attractive, but just going by a picture, you really ran with it!

Do you think we are lying ~ not in touch with ourselves?

I kinda am bugged by the fact you feel they all suck in bed too... even Athol Kay says Betas are more into pleasing the woman over ALpha males.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

no one ever asks me what I really want


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Why does it bother YOU that some women say they like this type of man...of course your painting of them would not at all be attractive, but just going by a picture, you really ran with it!
> 
> Do you think we are lying ~ not in touch with ourselves?
> 
> I kinda am bugged by the fact you feel they all suck in bed too... even Athol Kay says Betas are more into pleasing the woman over ALpha males.


That is what I want to know as well.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I always dated skinny men. My husband was a stick when I met him and then he quit smoking. LOL 

Age and wisdom have evolved my taste in men. Body fat is fine. I'm even okay with the beer gut. Just don't be 'too' overweight (10-20 pounds max) and I'm good.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> is there really a discussion about a TV relationship going on right now?


Sorry to be so far behind, but what show is this?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

that stupid nerd sitcom where the nerds act like anything but nerds


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> My husband would have been classified as a NERD in high school AFEH....Nice guy with big glasses, always had a smile on his face, good to everyone. Wasn't no girls stomping down his door....Didn't stop me from wanting him. He's never had any trouble getting me going - It was hard to keep my hands off.
> 
> Not all men who  & are nice fall into this pitiful description you are painting here .
> 
> ...


You've gone way overboard with that.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

The "nerd" type gets a lot of attention from the most gorgeous ladies in the hipster areas here in Brooklyn. In those areas you don't see a lot of overtly macho, big, beefed out dudes. More common are super slim dudes, lots of glasses (plenty are just vanity frames), slim cut clothing, with intelligence and "hippness" being very much prized.

Location, and culture, can have a lot to do with it.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> no one ever asks me what I really want


That's why we have to tell them!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> That's why we have to tell them!



I would like millions of dollars please


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> I would like millions of dollars please


They're yours! Now go find them


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> Something about both of those pics looks kind of creepy.


They are composit pics. Thus they have an odd, not real look to them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Both of those pics look like they are of 18 year olds. So they don't look like 'men' which is what I think most of the women here are responding to.

If I was 18 I'd definately go for the guy on the right. He's a bit pale but hey.. a white guy in winter... I'm like that too.

Were that a greal person, as he matured his features will sharpen and get stronger.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

jaquen said:


> The "nerd" type gets a lot of attention from the most gorgeous ladies in the hipster areas here in Brooklyn. In those areas you don't see a lot of overtly macho, big, beefed out dudes. More common are super slim dudes, lots of glasses (plenty are just vanity frames), slim cut clothing, with intelligence and "hippness" being very much prized.
> 
> Location, and culture, can have a lot to do with it.


And age. Going back to the original study, I would hardly say this is what "women" want. The study used men with an average age of 23 and women with an average age of 20. 

The guys are still wearing rolled up skinny jeans and plastic frame glasses with their suspenders and porkpie hats.....of course girls pick the slimmer men :rofl:

I would point out as well that lower body fat naturally leads to highlighting traditionally "masculine" features like a defined jaw and the appearance of broader shoulders.

I'm guessing this study would turn out entirely differently if the subjects in question were even just 5 years out of college. You know.....once guys have finished filling out and they get grown up metabolisms that don't quite work on a diet of pizza and beer, lol.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> *Both of those pics look like they are of 18 year olds. So they don't look like 'men' which is what I think most of the women here are responding to.*
> 
> If I was 18 I'd definately go for the guy on the right. He's a bit pale but hey.. a white guy in winter... I'm like that too.
> 
> Were that a greal person, as he matured his features will sharpen and get stronger.


Agree. I have a hard time looking at youthful males and categorizing them as attractive (to me).

I can't stand it when my mature colleague gushes about young 'eye candy'. Grosses me right out.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> That is what I want to know as well.


It is beyond my comprehension “why” a woman would want to be with such a man as Leonard. I imagine that in a very short while she’d be complaining about his gaming and his addiction to comic books and his totally nauseating way of initiating sex.

But as I said if that’s your cup of tea, then it’s your cup of tea. Why on earth you get so upset about it all is way beyond me.

My wife certainly wasn’t every man’s cup of tea. But guess what? I didn’t give a damn about it at all because she was most certainly mine.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> If I was 18 I'd definately go for the guy on the right. He's a bit pale but hey.. a white guy in winter... I'm like that too.


Yeah but his hair is so babyish, like he's got soft little pubes on his head.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

COguy said:


> Yeah but his hair is so babyish, like he's got soft little pubes on his head.


It's a composit photo. So the image of the hair was created by overlaying photos on top of photos. Ya gotta take into considertion what the media is you are looking at. A real guy would not have that kind of baby hair.

I was strickly looking at the facial features.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

So I was reading that men won't cheat if you give them female hormones (oxytocin) and I was at the gym and the TV had some soap opera on where all the men were waxed to within an inch of their life. 

I guess what women want is Hillary Swank.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

AFEH said:


> It is beyond my comprehension “why” a woman would want to be with such a man as Leonard. I imagine that in a very short while she’d be complaining about his gaming and his addiction to comic books and his totally nauseating way of initiating sex.
> 
> But as I said if that’s your cup of tea, then it’s your cup of tea. Why on earth you get so upset about it all is way beyond me.
> 
> My wife certainly wasn’t every man’s cup of tea. But guess what? I didn’t give a damn about it at all because she was most certainly mine.


Upset? Oh my you've read me wrong. Random forum people don't have the power to upset me. It's all good 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

So they want "healthy" men?? Phooey!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ScarletBegonias said:


> both of those dudes are creepy looking. I'll take option C...





AFEH said:


> You've gone way overboard with that.



Well here is the deal... I have NO IDEA who this Leonard dude even is...not a clue.... By going back & reading these posts a little closer, it appears he has a sitcom or something? 

So I assume this Leonard character is a lazy video game fanatic who is heavily into comic Book heros then, so all comments you were making -were about his "character" on TV.

See this one completely went over my head [email protected]#$%^ :rofl: -Wouldn't be the 1st time and won't be the last. Here I thought you were just saying these things out of thin air because he had a big  & looked Geeky. Yeah, I went overboard since I was clueless to his Tv persona. 

No, I wouldn't be attracted to a lazy video game fanatic who got excited over comic books. I would likely brow beat such a man. The respect would be sliding real fast when I had to start nagging him to take care of the house & the manly things that needed done.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Well here is the deal... I have NO IDEA who this Leonard dude even is...not a clue.... By going back & reading these posts a little closer, it appears he has a sitcom or something?
> 
> So I assume this Leonard character is a lazy video game fanatic who is heavily into comic Book heros then, so all comments you were making -were about his "character" on TV.
> 
> ...


It's The Big Bang Theory. Hilariously funny even though it's American


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

AFEH said:


> It's The Big Bang Theory. Hilariously funny even though it's American


That made me LOL.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

The Hollywood character / persona I would be uber attracted too is Ryan Gosling as NOAH in "the Notebook"... he was a Gentleman, he was funny, and he was a ONE WOMAN man who built everything hinging on love alone..... even spent years doing it -praying /hoping she would come back, many would call him a FOOL.... and well... in real life he likely would be... but anyway... 

His character... "mmmmm mmmmmm







"


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I kinda am bugged by the fact you feel they all suck in bed too... even Athol Kay says Betas are more into pleasing the woman over ALpha males.


Alphas couldn't care less if the woman gets off, but the women don't care either. The woman wearing the white dress in the picture was banged by JFK. When asked how it was, she said, "It was the best 20 seconds of my life."


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

AFEH said:


> For me it's more like just another woman, the author, who doesn't like Masculinity.


Judging by her looks, I'd say she likes masculinity plenty well.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Machiavelli said:


> Alphas couldn't care less if the woman gets off, *but the women don't care either.* The woman wearing the white dress in the picture was banged by JFK. When asked how it was, she said, "It was the best 20 seconds of my life.


That's funny... and I believe it...I'm one who DOES give a damn...and every time.

I don't think JFK is attractive in the least either.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Lon said:


> So they want "healthy" men?? Phooey!


I saw another study recently where they determined that a woman's perception of marital harmony was better when her husband is more overweight than his wife. Doesn't matter how big he is as long as he's bigger than her


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

So ... here is the abstract taken directly from the study itself, "Adiposity, compared with masculinity, serves as a more valid cue to immunocompetence in human mate choice". This of course served up by those hacks over at the Proceedings of the Royal Society Biological Sciences.



> According to the ‘good genes’ hypothesis, females choose males based on traits that indicate the male's genetic quality in terms of disease resistance. The ‘immunocompetence handicap hypothesis’ proposed that secondary sexual traits serve as indicators of male genetic quality, because they indicate that males can contend with the immunosuppressive effects of testosterone. Masculinity is commonly assumed to serve as such a secondary sexual trait. Yet, women do not consistently prefer masculine looking men, nor is masculinity consistently related to health across studies. Here, we show that adiposity, but not masculinity, significantly mediates the relationship between a direct measure of immune response (hepatitis B antibody response) and attractiveness for both body and facial measurements. In addition, we show that circulating testosterone is more closely associated with adiposity than masculinity. These findings indicate that adiposity, compared with masculinity, serves as a more important cue to immunocompetence in female mate choice.


So what the findings are actually saying is that being a 'Man's man' is not the trigger for sexual attraction. You may have a face as soft and delicate as a baby's bottom (Not so for Candie Girl attraction) but if your adiposity, love that word places you at or below 12% body fat, you are sending off the vibe, "Check out my healthy genes babe".

Give Leonard, Brad Pitt or Ryan Gosling's bod, and Scarlet Begonia's is going to lose her shizzle fo rizzle.

Won't see that last bit in the Proceedings of the Royal Society Biological Sciences.

They thought that masculinity in terms of appearance, and the presumption of higher levels of T would be factors in indicating immune function, and triggers for attraction. They weren't.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

AFEH said:


> For me the author defeats her own theories.
> 
> 
> In that the guy on the right looks far more masculine than the guy on the left.


That's true, but it's deeper than that. Testosterone reduces body fat, particularly belly fat and visceral fat. Higher T = lower body fat. Also get a load of this prime quote: 



Idiot Article said:


> Women are drawn to men with low body fat—not macho features, such as a manly jaw or six-pack abs,


Even the lamest "trainer" can tell you that a six-pack is almost totally about getting low body fat. You can sit up and crunch, ab wheel and leg raise until hell freezes over and until you get your body fat down, you won't have a six pack.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

big penis, big bank account and a small brain is what they want


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

SimplyAmorous said:


> The Hollywood character / persona I would be uber attracted too is Ryan Gosling as NOAH in "the Notebook"... he was a Gentleman, he was funny, and he was a ONE WOMAN man who built everything hinging on love alone..... even spent years doing it -praying /hoping she would come back, many would call him a FOOL.... and well... in real life he likely would be... but anyway...


Now see, I prefer his character in the movie "Drive". It's on Netflix. He's basically just like you say, gentleman, one woman man, fiercely loyal ... and ready to stomp a dude's head like a ripe cantalope. I swooned ...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Machiavelli said:


> That's true, but it's deeper than that. Testosterone reduces body fat, particularly belly fat and visceral fat. Higher T = lower body fat.


Painfully aware of T's impact on visceral fat post age 40. HRT had a substantial impact.

But as you said, doesn't much matter if you aren't watching what you eat.

I look younger than I am. Primarily due to the shape I'm in, which at the moment, could be much better.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> That's true, but it's deeper than that. Testosterone reduces body fat, particularly belly fat and visceral fat. Higher T = lower body fat. Also get a load of this prime quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Even the lamest "trainer" can tell you that a six-pack is almost totally about getting low body fat. You can sit up and crunch, ab wheel and leg raise until hell freezes over and until you get your body fat down, you won't have a six pack.


I know. In part it's why I think she was talking out the back of her head.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ATC529R said:


> big penis, big bank account and a small brain is what they want


Not me... average works just fine....If his $$ = workaholic...never having time for me...I'd grow a lonely desperate housewife & start noticing the hot Gardner outside my window....

And if such a man couldn't carry a deep meaningful conversation... I'd spit on that...I tend to prefer those on the introverted side for this very reason. 



> *Deejo said*: Now see, I prefer his character in the movie "Drive". It's on Netflix. He's basically just like you say, gentleman, one woman man, fiercely loyal ... and ready to stomp a dude's head like a ripe cantalope. I swooned .


 We caught that about a month ago on Netflix .....rather sick & demented for sure... but it's Ryan Gosling & there was a woman :smthumbup:... so I wouldn't shut it down! 

I was sourly disappointed how he was too sweet to go for the girl ... but he was being that honorable man... I wanted him to throw his honor away & have some FUN ..I kept waiting... I hated that ending !! 

It's the HIGH Romance in "the Notebook" ~ what can us women say. We know the guys like blood & gore... plenty of it in "DRIVE". I was hiding my eyes & screaming " I can't look, I can't look!!" 

I was making fun of the Leader of that Mafia chain (Ron Pearlman played the part).....he had a real deep voice & looked like an APE MAN... TOO HIGH of Test written all over that. Yuck!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

AFEH said:


> I know. In part it's why I think she was talking out the back of her head.


Yeah, and here's the proof: a different write up on the exact same study. 

The first article says T is linked to low immunity and this one says just the opposite.

And from the actual study results: _*Circulating testosterone levels were significantly correlated with adiposity* (r69 = 0.54, p < 0.001), but not masculinity (r69 = 0.21, p = 0.084). The *correlation between testosterone and adiposity was significantly stronger* than the correlation between testosterone and masculinity (Steiger's Z = 2.32, d.f. = 66, p = 0.015). _

Since this stuff is pretty much my job, I'll give you a clinician's field view as opposed to the theoreticians: The golden ratio trumps all and this study pretty much backs this up. Here's an anecdote (one of many):

I've got a client who is slim, but quite ripped, low body fat, 6 pack. Not really oversized muscles, but well defined as low body fat guys are. He likes to attend these dooshbag lake parties (the ones with all the boats lashed together) with these roided up dudes and hordes of breast implanted bleach blondes. One day when we were finished with his workout, he tells me how these girls from the party, who are supposed to be with massive body builder BFs, are trying to get something going with him. He wanted to know why they would do this? I pointed out that the IFBB wannabees had a waist size of around 40 (slin gut) making it almost impossible to reach the golden ratio. My client on the other hand, had a 28 waist and a 42 chest: better than golden. It didn't hurt that my client also had visible inguinal ligaments which women seem to really like.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deejo said:


> So ... here is the abstract taken directly from the study itself, "Adiposity, compared with masculinity, serves as a more valid cue to immunocompetence in human mate choice". This of course served up by those hacks over at the Proceedings of the Royal Society Biological Sciences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Brad or Ryan's body?? I'd be too self conscious to get naked in front of someone w a body like that!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Brad or Ryan's body?? I'd be too self conscious to get naked in front of someone w a body like that!


:what: how does someone elses body make you self conscious?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah, and here's the proof: a different write up on the exact same study.
> 
> The first article says T is linked to low immunity and this one says just the opposite.
> 
> ...


What? Two people looked at the same data and come to completely opposite conclusions.....

WOw that's never happened before ... :rofl:

Love these "studies" that use very small groups of one class (young in this case) to determine what half the human race is looking for. I'm so glad that someone is making sure they can tell me to think.


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah, and here's the proof: a different write up on the exact same study.
> 
> The first article says T is linked to low immunity and this one says just the opposite.
> 
> ...


how much fatter can I get before my visible inquinal ligaments go away? thats my personal golden ratio


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> It didn't hurt that my client also had visible inguinal ligaments which women seem to really like.


OH yea.. that's it...


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Lon said:


> :what: how does someone elses body make you self conscious?


I dunno, those perfect must be photoshopped bodies have a way of making me see every flaw in my own that I'm normally ok about. I like a more realistic figure...not so ripped. In shape is great but not a gym god.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I dunno, those perfect must be photoshopped bodies have a way of making me see every flaw in my own that I'm normally ok about. I like a more realistic figure...not so ripped. In shape is great but not a gym god.


I don't think you should be going for a brad pitt body dear. Those types would probably prefer making love to their own reflection, but I think you should stick with looking nice and girly like in the pics you are going to upload here


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I dunno, those perfect must be photoshopped bodies have a way of making me see every flaw in my own that I'm normally ok about. I like a more realistic figure...not so ripped. In shape is great but not a gym god.


I really don't think Ryan Gosling has the kind of "unattainable" body. He looks like a lot of fit young dudes.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah, and here's the proof: a different write up on the exact same study.
> 
> The first article says T is linked to low immunity and this one says just the opposite.
> 
> ...


Both my sons have that sinewy type strength and body shape. Bit like 6ft mountaineers. I used to be that way too but it's going back a bit lol.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I think the best suggestion for how men can understand what woman women want is built around a joke I have posted before... truth is sometimes folded into comedy:

A man goes into the attic to clean out the junk comes across the proverbial lamp. He rubs it and out come a genie.

Genie - I grant thee one wish

Man - Build me a bridge from CA to Hawaii.

Genie - I give you a wish and that is what you ask for? Not money not power?

Man - I need to take a vacation sometimes, but I hate flying. (he reconsiders)... You know what I really just want you to explain what women want and what it means when they say or do.... (long laundry)

Genei - so would you like that bridge made of steel or concrete.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

There is so much wrong with that "study" that i won't even bother... Chewing gum science! 

From failing to see the connection between testosterone level and body fat to totally failing to notice the obvious more "masculine" face of the composite guy in the right.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

costa200 said:


> There is so much wrong with that "study" that i won't even bother... Chewing gum science!
> 
> From failing to see the connection between testosterone level and body fat to totally failing to notice the obvious more "masculine" face of the composite guy in the right.


The author obviously has an agenda. Wonder if she even knows what it is.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

AFEH said:


> The author obviously has an agenda. Wonder if she even knows what it is.


Form her pic, I'd say she's trying to corner the market on masculine.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

AFEH said:


> The author obviously has an agenda. Wonder if she even knows what it is.


her agenda is to put her agenda out there


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Form her pic, I'd say she's trying to corner the market on masculine.


Just noticed... You may be on to something there!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Form her pic, I'd say she's trying to corner the market on masculine.


Well I said it on the first page.

I said that she's trying to redefine masculinity.

She's " playing God", trying to 
"_.. create man in her own image and likeness.._"

lol,how come it took you guys so long to realize that?


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

One thing I will say as an academic scientist in the area of developmental biology about the immunocompetence issue... whoever wrote this has NO understanding of this issue.

Sexual reproduction provides our offspring with diversity in many areas, one of which is immune response. Having diversity in immune responses goes to the heart of the core issue of biology in general. survival of the species to the sacrifice of individuals. What this means, that when we have "sexually produced" offspring we are generating diversity within the species. This is not a eugenics experiment where there is a higher degree of immunocompetence, rather it is just building diversity.

Best way to assume this is in the use immunological models that have been developed that show when a pandemic hits and we are unable to respond via artificial means that 25% of the population will likely die. Those that survive have the opportunity to extend the gene pool resistant to future pandemics from that same pandemic. However since we cannot predict the markers of new (future) pandemics we have no external means to measure immunologically competent factors of those genes in individuals. This even ignores the understanding that immunocompetence is also the result of gene shuffling of inherited genes. Therefore as a species we rely simply on the pooled diversity for the species to survive, but is completely unpredictable to the unknowing victim. 

So this aspect of the article is simply not verifiable or even logical on how we seek our mates. It is totally unpredictable how immunologically we will respond to these viral or bacterial pressures that has plagued every animal species since the dawn of time.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

drerio said:


> One thing I will say as an academic scientist in the area of developmental biology about the immunocompetence issue... whoever wrote this has NO understanding of this issue.
> 
> Sexual reproduction provides our offspring with diversity in many areas, one of which is immune response. Having diversity in immune responses goes to the heart of the core issue of biology in general. survival of the species to the sacrifice of individuals. What this means, that when we have "sexually produced" offspring we are generating diversity within the species. This is not a eugenics experiment where there is a higher degree of immunocompetence, rather it is just building diversity.
> 
> ...


I commend you for the patience in writing that. I can't be hassled today (long work day )


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## Lovesong (Nov 26, 2012)

needguidance said:


> I personally use to get more looks when I was about 25 lbs lighter, I had less facial hair, and boney at 6'0. Women just stopped flirting with me after I got more muscular, the five o'clock shadow started to even out, and my wife has no sexual desire now lol. Wtf!? Im sure my BMI is below 12 % but I guess it has to deal with weight too. I heard skinny men run the world, starting to believe it....


Skinny? Noooooooooooo, for the love of god, no! There is such a thing as too skinny for both men and women IMO. I'm waaaaay more attrated to a man a 'few lbs over weight' than 'a few lbs under'. I also LOVE the 5 O'clock shadow look. It's manly, hot, sexy, mmmmm. WTF is right. You sound right about perfect.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

costa200 said:


> I commend you for the patience in writing that. I can't be hassled today (long work day )


I will rephrase it a more succinct manner, when it comes to immunology and fighting off disease, there is strength in numbers. Individuals can be sacrificed and there is no predictability as to who that individual may be so the species may survive.


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

Men have no chance knowing what women want. Women don't know what they want:rofl:



its like chasing the end of the rainbow


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

So basically what women want is for a study to not dictate what women want.

I can totally write that ...


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

homebuilder said:


> Men have no chance knowing what women want. Women don't know what they want:rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> its like chasing the end of the rainbow


but if they find it, there is a pot of gold.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

drerio said:


> I will rephrase it a more succinct manner, when it comes to immunology and fighting off disease, there is strength in numbers. Individuals can be sacrificed and there is no predictability as to who that individual may be so the species may survive.


:lol:

Nah man, i read it, what i could not be hassled about was writing how selection of immunology would eventually screw us all up. That and the fact that other studies simply indicate that women DIRECTLY select males with different immune system than their own (no need for some mumbo jumbo indirect inference about their way of selection at all). Basically you worded my thoughts


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Men have no chance knowing what women want. Women don't know what they want


Of course they do, they want it ALL - EVERYTHING!!!


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

I had no idea I didn't know what I wanted in a man! Thank you almighty Interwebz for educating me!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> No, I wouldn't be attracted to a lazy video game fanatic who got excited over comic books. I would likely brow beat such a man. The respect would be sliding real fast when I had to start nagging him to take care of the house & the manly things that needed done.


heheh.....I'm not into lazy video fanatics or one that is hooked on comic books. But I gotta say, there are some great comic book artists and story lines to be appreciated. My guy has been known to bring me comic books from time to time. I love it. 

I'm not a fan of The Big Bang Theory sitcom myself though. Maybe I'm too much of a geek for it.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

And a quote from the movie Kinky Boots:

_"Thing is, Mike, ask any woman what she likes most in a man. Compassion, tenderness, sensitivity. Traditionally the female virtues. Perhaps what women secretly desire is a man who is fundamentally a woman."_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Now see, I prefer his character in the movie "Drive". It's on Netflix. He's basically just like you say, gentleman, one woman man, fiercely loyal ... and ready to stomp a dude's head like a ripe cantalope. I swooned ...


That was a good movie! Loved the 80's style opening and the signature jacket.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

yep I chose the guy on the right


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> So I assume this Leonard character is a lazy video game fanatic who is heavily into comic Book heros then, so all comments you were making -were about his "character" on TV.


My wife is a big fan of 'Big-Bang'. I'm a semi-willing observer 

'Leonard' is not lazy. The character is a double Ph.D. and published physicist if memory serves. 

His tastes, (Science fiction, computers, Comic-con, etc.) are classically nerdy, he's the type that has run from fights all his life and consequently, he doesn't have a clue about how to stand up to 'Penny's' ex-boyfriends who are tall and muscular.


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## needguidance (Aug 17, 2012)

Lovesong said:


> Skinny? Noooooooooooo, for the love of god, no! There is such a thing as too skinny for both men and women IMO. I'm waaaaay more attrated to a man a 'few lbs over weight' than 'a few lbs under'. I also LOVE the 5 O'clock shadow look. It's manly, hot, sexy, mmmmm. WTF is right. You sound right about perfect.


Well thank you. As for another user posted about the chest to waist ratio, I think thats what could have changed alot of things for me. I've been a 42 (chest) since I was 19 years old and for the longest while up until the last two years max I fluxated between 30.5-32.5in waist. Last time I got measure I was at 35in! I'd like to be at 28in like when I was high school but thats not realistic right now, maybe 30in at the least. If I could stay 185lbs with my waist at 30in that would be great. Then again (I was about 174lbs when I was 30in waist) when I wasnt stressed cause women can smell that a mile away, I never got flirted with. Whether it was financial, family, anything stressful that was on my mind it was like a scent I was giving off. I saw an old picture of myself when I was smaller, huge difference! I can definitely see where I have more weight in my stomach and maybe that has secretly gotten to my W because she has not been the same sexually since I gained the weight.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

needguidance said:


> I'd like to be at 28in like when I was high school but thats not realistic right now, maybe 30in at the least.


Why is that no realistic?


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