# Tell me I'm an *******



## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

so, my 19 year old son does not want to live with his mom and stepdad anymore.

1 He's decided to quit college....a free ride from me.
2 decided to quit his job...a bus boy job that he could have been a server several times but flunked the server test
3 blew up the motor in his car which was given to him and sold it...oh, and we paid the insurance for him as well
4 his father in law owns a company and won't even have him work there, while he hires his friend..landscaping
5 a professed lover of physics, but decides to smoke pot, do ex, molly and surround himself with numbnuts
6 want to "blow with the wind" without responsibility.....

so, he decided he can't take it at home anymore because his father in law is being a jerk. goes to live with the enabling grandmother for handouts. 

anywho after being there, and being there, and being there for him I had enough when he told me he wants to come stay over here but still does not want to get a job or have a plan...he just wants to blow with the wind......

Am I an A hole because I told him to wake up, take responsibility for his life and stop burdening others because of his refusal to have accountability for anything except friends and parties? I told him that and also told him not to call me until he does, cause I aint buyin it anymore or supporting it.

thoughts?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think you're doing the right thing. Just my $0.02. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

cut him off financially and let him make his own mistakes, if he is as smart as you say then he will likely grow up and start being responsible


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

NOPE you are NOT an a hole..you are probably his best friend right now whether he realizes it( sure he doesnt) or not.

Its a fine dance realizing they are basically retarded (sorry if that is politically incorrect) no matter how smart they are at that age and having some "tolerance" you might not otherwise because of that fact and complete enabling and aiding them in making decisions that can cripple them for life..


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

I felt bad when I told him not to call me.....but I know I am doing the right thing.

he really believes he can just go where the wind blows him for free and everyone should listen to him to...

sux man, cause I don't know when I'll talk to him again, as I stand my ground when I say something. although my wife did call him right back after my harsh words with the politically correct version. 

took a long time getting here, but enough is enough.


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## damiana879 (Aug 26, 2011)

You're on the right track, hon. If he doesn't grow up now, his relationships will never be right...like my husband does, he will expect her to wait on him hand and foot, be the one with the job, taking care of the house, etc. He will be a financial drain on everyone that he encounters and he will destroy them if given half the chance. 

But if he realizes his mistakes now, and corrects them, he can still make it as a responsible, civil human being. He won't have to keep relying on people and he will make his own way, and eventually be grateful you set him straight.

Keep up the good work.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Nope. Your job is to make him an adult. Financing his party hasn't taught him anything. The best thing a father could do for him at this stage is let him stand on his own feet, take his own lumps.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

I was mowing lawns @ 12 yrs old, had a summer job @ 15, bought my 1st car @ 16 etc...etc...

and when you hand them everything they cry and moan and say you are putting expectations on them LOL


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> so, my 19 year old son does not want to live with his mom and stepdad anymore.
> 
> 1 He's decided to quit college....a free ride from me.
> 2 decided to quit his job...a bus boy job that he could have been a server several times but flunked the server test
> ...


Nope! You care enough to let him hit his rock bottom. As long as people make life easier on him, he has no reason to change. 

Yes, HE will think you're an A-Hole. Good. That means you're doing the right thing when it comes to drug/alcohol issues like this.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> so, my 19 year old son does not want to live with his mom and stepdad anymore.
> 
> 1 He's decided to quit college....a free ride from me.
> 2 decided to quit his job...a bus boy job that he could have been a server several times but flunked the server test
> ...


Is he married? Or did you mean to say "step-dad"?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

It takes some longer to grow up, than others. You're doing right by him using tough love. All humans learn how to survive if their not enabled. It will work if you stick to it.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Nope! You care enough to let him hit his rock bottom. As long as people make life easier on him, he has no reason to change.
> 
> Yes, HE will think you're an A-Hole. Good. That means you're doing the right thing when it comes to drug/alcohol issues like this.


he's gone from his house to his grandma (who has health issues and does not need this), has plans for his grandpa's next if I would not have it...

these are on his mom's side. I have already told my parents he is not staying there.

how can you get through to them other than what i am doing?


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> NOPE you are NOT an a hole..you are probably his best friend right now whether he realizes it( sure he doesnt) or not.


OP, you're actually being more than a best friend. It's called being a parent. Many people get confused in thinking (not saying that you are DallasApple) that to be a good parent, you have to be a good friend to your child. His "friends" are likely the ones that got him into this situation. Being a good parent, and especially a good father, it is your duty to give him expectations and show him that there are consequences for not meeting them.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

^ Hear, hear!!


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> Is he married? Or did you mean to say "step-dad"?


no, his mom is married. so he has a stepdad


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> OP, you're actually being more than a best friend. It's called being a parent. Many people get confused in thinking (not saying that you are DallasApple) that to be a good parent, you have to be a good friend to your child. His "friends" are likely the ones that got him into this situation. Being a good parent, and especially a good father, it is your duty to give him expectations and show him that there are consequences for not meeting them.


To me great parent is your best friend period.BEST friend.And great parent (friend) doesn't sit back and say its "cool' to screw your life up...


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

I think you are doing the right thing - but some of this you may have set him up for (e.g. - the college free ride, paying the car insurance, "when you hand them everything"). 

I think the "don't call me" was a bit over the top. Perhaps tell him you'll always be willing to lend an ear, but that's it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

No you are not being an A-hole. So, what is his WIFE doing through all of this, does she work??


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

My son is 21 and he still lives at home. However, when he graduated high school, I told him that he would not be one of those guys that is still living in his parent's basement in their 30's playing video games. He has a full-time job, purchased his own car, pays his own expenses and attends college part time. As long as he is helping himself and moving toward a goal, I don't mind helping him by providing him a place to stay until he can afford to move out. But drifting from place to place with no direction and no sense of responsibility is not acceptable. OP, you are doing the right thing.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

No! you are being a responsible parent. He doesnt respect what you and others have done for him, nor how good he has it. He hasnt hit rock bottom yet, and might never, as long has he can get a handout from anybody else. 

At 19, he needs your tough love.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> No you are not being an A-hole. So, what is his WIFE doing through all of this, does she work??


The son is not married.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

pb76no said:


> I think you are doing the right thing - but some of this you may have set him up for (e.g. - the college free ride, paying the car insurance, "when you hand them everything").
> 
> I think the "don't call me" was a bit over the top. Perhaps tell him you'll always be willing to lend an ear, but that's it.


I don't pay for everything....but with his mom, stepdad, step mom (my wife, me, his grandparents on both sides he has not wanted for much. his mom handled the insurance on the car, I was footing college etc, etc...

I found out he actually sold a decent amount of presents I had bought him...like immediately (gift cards and such)...which is just wrong.

I feel really bad about the dont call me thing. but it's been a tough year on me. i spent the last two days trying to get through to him about why his stepdad is putting his foot down and all kinds of stuff. he just hit a nerve when he wanted to come here and was giving me feedback like i am being a jerk to tell him to carry his own weight. hey you wanna party and do whatever. GET A JOB or at least develop a plan as opposed to mooching and then telling the person who is giving it to you they are a jerk. ughhhh


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

ATC529R said:


> so, my 19 year old son does not want to live with his mom and stepdad anymore.
> 
> 1 He's decided to quit college....a free ride from me.
> 2 decided to quit his job...a bus boy job that he could have been a server several times but flunked the server test
> ...



I think I'm an ******* too.

Kicked mine out for the same reasons.

If that's the way it's going to be start taking some pride in being an *******.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> The son is not married.



LOL!!!True cant blame the wife!


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## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

You are doing exactly the right thing, good job.

The only thing I would suggest is instead of telling him you won't take his calls, saying the only call you will accept is one asking to go to rehab.

Stick to your guns! The longer enabling goes on, the harder it is to stop. He will be mad short term but it will pay off long term.


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> I don't pay for everything....but with his mom, stepdad, step mom (my wife, me, his grandparents on both sides he has not wanted for much. his mom handled the insurance on the car, I was footing college etc, etc...
> 
> I found out he actually sold a decent amount of presents I had bought him...like immediately (gift cards and such)...which is just wrong.
> 
> I feel really bad about the dont call me thing. but it's been a tough year on me. i spent the last two days trying to get through to him about why his stepdad is putting his foot down and all kinds of stuff. he just hit a nerve when he wanted to come here and was giving me feedback like i am being a jerk to tell him to carry his own weight. hey you wanna party and do whatever. GET A JOB or at least develop a plan as opposed to mooching and then telling the person who is giving it to you they are a jerk. ughhhh


Give it a bit of time, then call him and let him know you are there for advice, moral support. Again, I think you are doing the right thing. And if no one else said it yet - it will probably get worse before it gets better, so hold the line which will be even harder.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> I don't pay for everything....but with his mom, stepdad, step mom (my wife, me, his grandparents on both sides he has not wanted for much. his mom handled the insurance on the car, I was footing college etc, etc...
> 
> I found out he actually sold a decent amount of presents I had bought him...like immediately (gift cards and such)...which is just wrong.
> 
> I feel really bad about the dont call me thing. but it's been a tough year on me. i spent the last two days trying to get through to him about why his stepdad is putting his foot down and all kinds of stuff. he just hit a nerve when he wanted to come here and was giving me feedback like i am being a jerk to tell him to carry his own weight. hey you wanna party and do whatever. GET A JOB or at least develop a plan as opposed to mooching and then telling the person who is giving it to you they are a jerk. ughhhh


The other option is to say O.K if I'm the definition of an a-hole then so be it ..Im an A-HOLE!And hey add too...NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED !


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> I don't pay for everything....but with his mom, stepdad, step mom (my wife, me, his grandparents on both sides he has not wanted for much. his mom handled the insurance on the car, I was footing college etc, etc...
> 
> I found out he actually sold a decent amount of presents I had bought him...like immediately (gift cards and such)...which is just wrong.
> 
> I feel really bad about the dont call me thing. but it's been a tough year on me. i spent the last two days trying to get through to him about why his stepdad is putting his foot down and all kinds of stuff. he just hit a nerve when he wanted to come here and was giving me feedback like i am being a jerk to tell him to carry his own weight. hey you wanna party and do whatever. GET A JOB or at least develop a plan as opposed to mooching and then telling the person who is giving it to you they are a jerk. ughhhh


So has anyone (you or his mother specifically) ever sat him down and tried to give him the facts of life in a cool, calm manner? If he has never really wanted for nothing, he is likely quite puzzled why he is suddenly being cut off from support. Has he ever had a conversation where it was explained about the realities of actions and consequences?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> The son is not married.


Oh! The OP had referred to a father in law...


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

No, not an a-hole.

But I don't think you should tell him not to call. Keep the lines of communication open. He's your kid, whether you like it (or him) or not.

Reasoned communication with him will someday get through.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

ATC - Did you spend much time with your son while he was growing up? Where do his values come from? I have two sons. One is very hard working and the other is very lazy so I'm not trying to judge you. I'm just curious why an intelligent boy would fail to realize he needs to take care of his own business. It's still a mystery to me. My lazy boy is only 14 so I have time to correct. Please provide some insight if possible. Oh and your not an A-hole for not bailing him out. However, you might want to consider he's an addict of some kind.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

pb76no said:


> Give it a bit of time, then call him and let him know you are there for advice, moral support. Again, I think you are doing the right thing. And if no one else said it yet - it will probably get worse before it gets better, so hold the line which will be even harder.


Agreed too..it not the end of the world let alone relationship.Dealing with spoiled teenagers is proboably one of the hardest things I've ever done.Thank god my 3rd one (17 now) is the "easiest"..But then again maybe he just seems easy because I've already been chewed up and spit out..I do feel sorry (more sorry ) for my mother now...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Best case scenario is you get everyone to give the same message. You can live here but not until you have a job, pay first months rent when you walk in the door, and have a plan for your life.

Some kids have to learn the hard way. You are NOT an A hole. You son is just a very determined slacker.

Can I suggest that as you wait for him to decide/realize his way isn't working, you do your level best to have loving conversations with him, during which you point out his talents and strengths and your faith that he will figure it out and find his way. Detatching doesn't have to be explosive or filled with contempt. He needs to hear you still love him, you still have faith in him, you still see something wonderful in him because he's hurting. Granted his hurt is of his own making but he is still hurting. "I love you and you are such a brilliant young man and I know you will figure it all out soon, but until then, you can't stay here."


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> So has anyone (you or his mother specifically) ever sat him down and tried to give him the facts of life in a cool, calm manner? If he has never really wanted for nothing, he is likely quite puzzled why he is suddenly being cut off from support. Has he ever had a conversation where it was explained about the realities of actions and consequences?


he talks the game, but does not follow through. He was all about college....until the time came......then he doesn't know if he wants to go.....and quit.

he was all about physics..., but IMO because it was cool and theoretical. when the rubber met the road he did not follow through with the grades.

so he likes to be the cool kid that gets stoned and talks about relative matter and stuff :scratchhead:

He has never learned that grit and determination are just as important if not moreso than brains. He thinks I am a hardass......because he's never followed through on anything.

this all came down after he quit his job and decided to join a buddist temple for 6 months.......until he visited and said " I have to pray and wear a robe etc etc," I'm like WTF did you think? you think it's a soup kitchen?


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> ATC - Did you spend much time with your son while he was growing up? Where do his values come from? I have two sons. One is very hard working and the other is very lazy so I'm not trying to judge you. I'm just curious why an intelligent boy would fail to realize he needs to take care of his own business. It's still a mystery to me. My lazy boy is only 14 so I have time to correct. Please provide some insight if possible. Oh and your not an A-hole for not bailing him out. However, you might want to consider he's an addict of some kind.


I always did the everyother weekend thing. so my opinion was really secondary. We got close from like age 10-13....then he bacame a teenager and knew everything, but we have always done the every other weekend thing.

he gets his values from his mom and grandma mostly..and his grandma is a loon IMO....child of the 60's, love everyone, you don't need a purpose or committment etc.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

you guys r right. I'll probably just text him I Love you for now.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Best case scenario is you get everyone to give the same message. You can live here but not until you have a job, pay first months rent when you walk in the door, and have a plan for your life.
> 
> Some kids have to learn the hard way. You are NOT an A hole. You son is just a very determined slacker.
> 
> Can I suggest that as you wait for him to decide/realize his way isn't working, you do your level best to have loving conversations with him, during which you point out his talents and strengths and your faith that he will figure it out and find his way. Detatching doesn't have to be explosive or filled with contempt. He needs to hear you still love him, you still have faith in him, you still see something wonderful in him because he's hurting. Granted his hurt is of his own making but he is still hurting. "I love you and you are such a brilliant young man and I know you will figure it all out soon, but until then, you can't stay here."


thats pretty much the PC version my wife conveyed to his VM after I had my words with him.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Deep breath. This is such a difficult thing for a parent to go through. He'll be okay. In fact, I bet 15 years from now he'll far exceed what you might think possible today. I've got lots of stories just like your son, who turned it around and took off. Honestly, he'll be okay.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I can't call you an A hole because I think you've behaved like a decent, responsible father. Better late than never to tell an adult child to get his mind out of neutral, into gear and get his show on the road.

Just let him know that you're there for him as a father, OP, but not as a free ride.

IMO, what you've done is an act of kindness for your son and, hopefully, one day he'll thank you for it.


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

You're a father - and that sometimes makes you an A hole in your kid's mind. It's okay - he'll get over it and MAYBE thank you someday.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> he's gone from his house to his grandma (who has health issues and does not need this), has plans for his grandpa's next if I would not have it...
> 
> these are on his mom's side. I have already told my parents he is not staying there.
> 
> how can you get through to them other than what i am doing?


Besides holding him fully accountable for his behaviors, the only other thing you could consider doing is an intervention. 

This would be working with a trained interventionist in a way that his loved ones and friends come together to hold him accountable for what his actions have done while demonstrating loving support and placing firm boundaries that have consequences. 

It can be very hard to put together an intervention because often, family and friends disagree on WHAT should be done. One says, "Oh, but it's not so bad." Another says, "But an intervention is mean!" Yet another might claim they don't want to get involved. Someone else can add, "I'll just talk to them myself." But if you can enough people to join you in finding a way to intervene and get him into treatment, it is one of the most effective ways of prompting him to reach his rock bottom before it has worse effects.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

*Tell me I'm an A hole*

Tell him that you and your wife are going to quit your jobs, sell the house, and travel the country in a Winnebago. When he looks at you like you have a screw loose, say that he's convinced you that working is for losers. 

He's resisting adulthood with all his might. You did the right thing. I probably wouldn't have said "don't call me". Instead I would have said "when you want to talk give me a call, but my position on you carrying your weight is not open for discussion."


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

he answered my text with I love you too.


we love each other. He just does not see reality yet. maybe some time eating ramen noodles and begging for rides will help him see the light.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> he answered my text with I love you too.
> 
> 
> we love each other. He just does not see reality yet. maybe some time eating ramen noodles and begging for rides will help him see the light.


Kids are dumb..no matter their IQ..Give him the benefit that his brain actually wont be fully developed until about 25..and the ability to rationalize in the emotional way is the last to finish.That's called young and dumb.The **** I did/ the risk I took and the advantages I took for granted and squandered back then I shudder to think.Crazy crazy crazy...

But he loves you...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What you are doing is the right thing for a mentally stable young person. 

When was the last time you say your son and really spent any time with him?

A couple of years ago one of my nephews (20 yrs old) shows up on my door step. Your son's life is pretty much sums up what my nephew was like at the time. Except, that it was 6 months after his parents told him that he had to do it on his own. He had been living on the streets in Phoenix for 6 months because he could not keep a job.

So I let the kid in. With 48 hours we had him at the county mental health center. They kept him locked up for 2 months. To make a long story short. He's schizophrenic.

My nephew went from being an A student, foot ball player to a paranoid schizophrenic within a 1 year period. And no one was paying attention. All his teacher, parents, etc saw was the bad boy.

Up until he showed up here no one was really paying attention to him. His parents said that he was just out of control, not wanting to work, lazy, and on and on.

This is the age when schizophrenia sets in. Make sure that someone is really paying attention to him and that it's very clear that he have not developed some kind of mental illness. If he has, he will not ever be able to function without a lot of help.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

ATC529R said:


> I always did the everyother weekend thing. so my opinion was really secondary. We got close from like age 10-13....then he bacame a teenager and knew everything, but we have always done the every other weekend thing.
> 
> he gets his values from his mom and grandma mostly..and his grandma is a loon IMO....child of the 60's, love everyone, you don't need a purpose or committment etc.


Oh boy. My mother was also a child of the 60s. Fortunately I had a grandfather that managed to teach me to work. It still took half of my lifetime to shake those false 60's values my mother fed me. In the end its about what you contributed. Not what you felt or how well your damm chakras are aligned. Buddist monks are basically well adjusted beggars.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> Oh boy. My mother was also a child of the 60s. Fortunately I had a grandfather that managed to teach me to work. It still took half of my lifetime to shake those false 60's values my mother fed me. In the end its about what you contributed. Not what you felt or how well your damm chakras are aligned. Buddist monks are basically well adjusted beggars.


I agree..but the Buddist monks I have met don't drive ..have girlfriends...do drugs or drink.or sleep on a mattress.let alone have cable t.v or anything like that...YES they are taken care of..but without the kind of luxuries the modern American's "expect" ...

Please do not compare Buddhist monks to spoiled rotten teenagers..let alone undisciplined non working spoiled brat rotten teanagers...to Buddhist monks..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Buddist monks are basically well adjusted beggars.


Have you been to a Buddhist temple? I thought not.(Oh and by the way I'm a so called Christian I would never judge the Buddhist monks as you have)..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Buddist monks are basically well adjusted beggars.


You picked the WRONG comparison..Sorry..that's all I have to say about that.


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## HuggyBear (Aug 4, 2012)

Ok, sure, your an A-hole...

You think kid is mature just because he's the age of majority... from my own experience, substance abuse counselors wholeheartedly preach that people aren't mature until around 25 years old.

You mention "molly" and "ex"... same ****, by the way, as if you could be sure about what you buy these days...

You're going to judge your own kid for not being the same bum licker to the piper you decided to follow way back when? So he bussed tables instead of putting up with the complete crap of dealing with customers. So he smokes pot.. does some crap synthetic drugs... He's not using heroin, coke, or even beer or booze excessively, which actually says alot.

I'll just say this - look around... are you really happy with what you've bought into? All those years of SS that you'll NEVER f'ing see? It ain't the America you imagined, or maybe still imagine.

Kids (under 30, I'll add) fully understand the poop sandwich they are being forced to eat from now on. Why *try* when murderers, drug cartels, and terrorists are literally being subsidized (or decriminalized like HSBC) by the federal government?

Yup, he's probably a bit smarter than you might give him credit for, or could ever understand.

I hope that's what you needed to hear.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> you think kid is mature just because he's the age of majority... From my own experience, substance abuse counselors wholeheartedly preach that people aren't mature until around 25 years old.


bingo!


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

HuggyBear said:


> Ok, sure, your an A-hole...
> 
> You think kid is mature just because he's the age of majority... from my own experience, substance abuse counselors wholeheartedly preach that people aren't mature until around 25 years old.
> 
> ...


wow.......so many BS excuses in one big pile.

Life is not about making excuses about how there's no reason to do anything because of America, the man, religion, politics or any of those things. It's about navigating those things to follow ones potential.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Well as president of the A hole club, I would like to personally welcome you to the club. :rofl:


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

*Tell me I'm an A hole*



HuggyBear said:


> Yup, he's probably a bit smarter than you might give him credit for, or could ever understand.
> .


The sure sign of adolescence is the belief that you are smarter than everyone older. 

And the issue is when do you become responsible for yourself, not how screwed up the world is. Giving up and letting someone else take care of your sh*t isn't a valid answer.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

VermisciousKnid said:


> *The sure sign of adolescence is the belief that you are smarter than everyone older.*
> 
> And the issue is when do you become responsible for yourself, not how screwed up the world is. Giving up and letting someone else take care of your sh*t isn't a valid answer.


thank you.

On his 18th B day we had a big party for him. Somehow that kind of thing came up...one of his friends was in on the conversation. My son was basically telling that me my advice was no better than his own. I was trying to explain the advice came from experience as he was getting all puffy chested in front of his friend telling me he basically knew everything.

even his friend was rolling his eyes @ my son.

Once I told him this exact thing flat out as he rambled about how the world is as he makes it in his own mind....

He is always thinking he knows everything and in one conversation we had I told him. "you're not that smart...because if you were you would not think you knew everything and would take advice based on experience"


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

*Tell me I'm an A hole*



ATC529R said:


> thank you.
> 
> On his 18th B day we had a big party for him. Somehow that kind of thing came up...one of his friends was in on the conversation. My son was basically telling that me my advice was no better than his own. I was trying to explain the advice came from experience as he was getting all puffy chested in front of his friend telling me he basically knew everything.
> 
> ...


To a certain extent it's a developmental phase like any other. The same age group also has a feeling of immortality. They have their whole lives ahead of them. They're strong and healthy. They can't conceive of bad things befalling them. They think that other people make mistakes but they don't. It's what leads them to take crazy risks. 

My oldest son started out as a lead footed driver. He was driving me somewhere and we were speeding along on a main road when another car approached way too fast on a side street up ahead and to the right. I saw this unfolding and hit my imaginary brake pedal - accident avoidance mode. My son didn't brake. The other car jammed on its brakes and stopped just short of nosing in to our lane. I questioned my son. Did he see the car? A: Yes. Why didn't he brake? A: Because he had the right of way and if there was an accident the other guy would have been at fault. What if he didn't stop and we t-boned him? A: I would have stopped in time. I told him he was going too fast to stop in time. A: I'm a good driver. 

That age group really overestimates its skill and knowledge.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

We all did crazy crap @ that age. I was very wild. I understand it, I get it.

what I don't get is not having responsibility...whether thats a job or school or planning what to do....

you gotta at least be trying.

it's the not trying part that I will never support......


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> thank you.
> 
> On his 18th B day we had a big party for him. Somehow that kind of thing came up...one of his friends was in on the conversation. My son was basically telling that me my advice was no better than his own. I was trying to explain the advice came from experience as he was getting all puffy chested in front of his friend telling me he basically knew everything.
> 
> ...


Yes the most intelligent and mature young people I know ...realize they probably understand far less than most of the people they know who are much older than them and are open to learning .And may even seek their wisdom.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> We all did crazy crap @ that age. I was very wild. I understand it, I get it.
> 
> what I don't get is not having responsibility...whether thats a job or school or planning what to do....
> 
> ...


I'm 100% with you on that.I'm a lot more understanding of stupid /crazy "what the hell were you thinking" behaviors /decisions if at the same time they are making some sort of positive progress forward and being productive in some way.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> They think that other people make mistakes but they don't. It's what leads them to take crazy risks.


Or that other peoples mistakes were because they were too stupid to know how to get away with taking the risks.

Kind of like thinking you are a better drunk driver than another drunk driver because they got caught and you didn't.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Or that other peoples mistakes were because they were too stupid to know how to get away with taking the risks.
> 
> Kind of like thinking you are a better drunk driver than another drunk driver because they got caught and you didn't.


wow.....

my son has told me exactly that. .....I don't want to learn from your mistakes or that my mistakes are not relevant in his life.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm all for some "Tough Love" parenting....when faced with a situation like this.... you warn your kids fully of the consequences...of any said action (or NON action).....you lay it out before them ....you encourage them to deeply weigh their choices...instill within them what their personal Responsibilities are...doing this for years hopefully will give decent results as they grow into adulthood....

And if they choose to NOT walk in them, hey...that's on them... they can call me & their dad all kinds of things, try to be manipulative...we wouldn't care (well he might) but I am not really much of a softie in things like this... because this teaches them *Responsibility*....one of those things... that once they grow up a little they will thank you later on for being "tough" -not making it so easy...so they could grow...and see the value in hard work and personal accomplishment. 

This is just GOOD for their future ...on the job, in marriage, in parenthood, in friendship and family...

You are not an A-hole from all I have read on this thread.... though you should still take his calls.. never break the communication.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> You picked the WRONG comparison..Sorry..that's all I have to say about that.



I've been to buddist temples in Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore. Have you? Yes they live spartan lives, but I would not consider them societal contributors outside of the spiritual world. This thread was about a boy becoming a man and learning to take care of himself. I haven't met or seen any productive buddist that can stand on their own two feet without the support of their temple. All the Buddhist I've met are focused on seperating themselves from society in an effort to find some inner peace. Obviously you don't like my sarcasim or my point of view, but I don't think I'll change it on your behalf. Please don't make any more assumptions about what I know or what my experiences have been.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

To ATC - Sorry about my little thread jack.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Join the club - there's good company here.  I am not my daughter's friend. I am her mentor. I will gradually become her friend after the birdie flies from the nest.

I have pre-emptively had this conversation with my daughter because my ex is very good at blame-shifting and not accepting responsibility. I don't want her doing the same thing. She knows she has a couple choices as she gets older and knows it's just more work the older you get. 

Kids think being an adult is exciting and wondrous. They forget the older you get there is more work and responsibility to go with that freedom.

Kiddo knows she is expected to find a career path. She may attend a university, local community college or a trade school. Or she may find an apprenticeship or a full-time job with a career-minded goal. I will help her as much as I can as long as she is helping herself. To live at home she has to be attending school or work full time. If she attends college part time, she needs a part time job as well. No free rides, no sitting at home doing nothing or she has to move out.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Join the club - there's good company here.  I am not my daughter's friend. I am her mentor. I will gradually become her friend after the birdie flies from the nest.
> 
> I have pre-emptively had this conversation with my daughter because my ex is very good at blame-shifting and not accepting responsibility. I don't want her doing the same thing. She knows she has a couple choices as she gets older and knows it's just more work the older you get.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%.

My son has two left feet, could not swing a hammer or turn a wrench if his life depended on it. (he actually blew the engine in his car by changing the oil incorrectly?)

I've been telling him for years Nasa does not hire physics people with 2.8 GPA's!!

i.e. he damn well better hit the books if that was his path (which he insisted it was). I've had as much influence as I can every other weekend and several hours away.

but in the end with no degree, no trade skills, an attitude and he thinks he knows everything?????

I just kind of throw my hands up and hope he comes around.

He will, it just sux he's gonna have to learn the hard way.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

so he's not talking to me now. :-(

man this sux. It's like bend over and praise him or he doesn't love me.

WTF? just sux. any advice would be helpful.


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

He's just mad because his free ride has ended.

I'd contact him and simply say you love him, but BECAUSE you love him you want him to acquire independence and get out of this dead end rut he's on...that he has incredible potential that you believe in. You are willing to help him in ways that will actually HELP him ie.) help write a resume, find a suitable course for college, give leads on job prospects, etc. and that he can always talk to you. He may not hear it now, but it's good to leave that open door so he knows it's there. If he won't take your calls, leave a msg on voicemail or even send a letter/email.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

daffodilly said:


> He's just mad because his free ride has ended.
> 
> I'd contact him and simply say you love him, but BECAUSE you love him you want him to acquire independence and get out of this dead end rut he's on...that he has incredible potential that you believe in. You are willing to help him in ways that will actually HELP him ie.) help write a resume, find a suitable course for college, give leads on job prospects, etc. and that he can always talk to you. He may not hear it now, but it's good to leave that open door so he knows it's there. If he won't take your calls, leave a msg on voicemail or even send a letter/email.


he called my wife yesterday to get something and I was home and he had to talk to me. he pretty much expects me to get down on one knee and apologize! as far as a job is concerned...he has not asked for my help @ all. he doesn't even want one! I'm a headhunter for petes sake...it's what I do! it's pretty clear he's not interested. his mom's proud of him because he is "doing the dishes" at grandmas house and has a job interview today. the interview by the way was handed to him by a family memeber. i.e. he better take the interview. but he does not want to work....and that side of the family is praising him for "doing dishes"?????? WTF???


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

OMG that sounds like my ex! He texts her every day how proud he is of our daughter like being alive is an accomplishment! My hard-headed daughter just spent and entire week busting her butt on extra credit to bring up 3 Fs because of zeros for not turning in homework even thought test grades were all Bs and As. 

Anyway, sorry to hi-jack.

Maybe you should tell him you are proud of him for getting that interview and wish him luck? 

What about taking him to some sort of skills assessment counseling session with a local college? Maybe he'll listen to a stranger since he won't listen to you and find out there is something he can do AND enjoy. Sorry - I have a hard-headed one, too. I was one as well tho willing to work and having a good work ethic. Took me quite a while to find my niche.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

the whole tough love parenting thing does not work when the parents are not married. it turns into the one with the tough love is the ******* and the one thats the enabler loves him.

everyone says I should just let it go......... but I spent 19 years being there for him, never even dated his mom, have always taken on the responsibility because he deserves to have a father.......and I get a F you in return.

I just don't know what to do.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

This is one of those delayed gratification situations. I am used to being the a-hole. I'm OK with that title if it means I'm doing my best to make her into the best adult she can be.

It may not happen until he's 30 - but at some point he will realize what you did/are doing for him. Keep doing what you know is right.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Good for you for having the backbone to do the right thing, your son will hopefully be better for it. Let his first adult life lesson be that if you want to "blow with the wind" you can do it on your own dime. As long as you're financing your own life you can pretty much do what you want.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

Well.....a not so pleasant update.

So I go to my folks this weekend for my B day to just have some downtime. My son, whom I have not spoken to in weeks, drops off a birthday card with my dad before I get there. It's an inside thing.... but the birthday card was just a slap in the face...a play on words based on conversations we have had. A move only done to provoke me. So when I try to call I am blocked by his cell provider. so, no contact to try and discuss. I call his stepdad and he clearly did not want to get in the middle of it. I give it until Sunday before I leave. Then I go to his grandmas house where he is staying to try and get through all th BS. Well he's not there, and I was invited in. He's off with a friend staying the weekend for a party. Meanwhil I proceed to ask granny whats up and she rips into me about being mean.....and how he is mad at me etc, etc......and to hell with the card he left me...it doesn't mean anything. Well that lasted about 10 minutes until she starts telling me about therapy etc., where he is "getting it all out" and criticizing me for not going (I live 3 hours away). I said something about therapy and she says EVERYONE NEEDS THERAPY!. to which I replied....well that about does it for me, I'm out...and yeah, you need some therapy alright.

So my 19 yeaer old son is taking life lessons from a hippie, ex alcoholic, who never had a job and never leaves the house. She says he is doing great because he went to the grocery store for her.

I've been torn up all weekend about it. I'm worried for him as to who is molding his mind. mad @ her and his mom, mad @ him for playing games, on my B day no less......and I'm the bad guy.

man teenagers can F you up in the head.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

oh and granny is the one in charge of his cell and has me blocked.

my son went to church with my parents.......he brings a koran to a Baptist church to compare notes and calls out the preacher on something from the front row.

it's not religion to him, it's a game. :-(


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