# Is there a woman out there?



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Who believes man can go through an unjust situation where he is abused and blame directed to him?

Where he loses self esteem, his confidence is completely drained and belief in self low. He even looks "Ugly", "down", "distant", is overly self aware.

Is there a woman out there who believes a man can go through a terrible ordeal in a relationship that went bad, and perhaps their loving, their support, their touch over time could bring him back to life, and perhaps a handsome, sharp and intelligent man rises from the carnage of the tear down from a previous situation?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Men can be hurt by emotional abuse just as much as women can. I also believe that women and men emotionally abuse at an equivalent rate.


And yes, there are women who can have the love and compassion to help a man heal from an abusive situation.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Men can be hurt by emotional abuse just as much as women can. I also believe that women and men emotionally abuse at an equivalent rate.
> 
> 
> And yes, there are women who can have the love and compassion to help a man heal from an abusive situation.


Glad that you are out there.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Absolutely.


In fact, I know more men that have suffered from a rotten spouse then women.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Women have their own version of Knight In Shining Armour syndrome...the Florence Nightengale syndrome. So always be careful to make sure a woman who has compassion, isn't actually just doing something that helps her ignore her own life's problems, like KISA's do.

What is the nature of the problems of the man in our example?

How long has he given himself to heal from the problem before finding a new woman?

These questions are key.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

treyvion said:


> Who believes man can go through an unjust situation where he is abused and blame directed to him?
> 
> Where he loses self esteem, his confidence is completely drained and belief in self low. He even looks "Ugly", "down", "distant", is overly self aware.
> 
> Is there a woman out there who believes a man can go through a terrible ordeal in a relationship that went bad, and perhaps their loving, their support, their touch over time could bring him back to life, and perhaps a handsome, sharp and intelligent man rises from the carnage of the tear down from a previous situation?


I most definitely believe in people being there for people and not looking /judging just on the outside of what someone appears to be... but digging deeper to getting to know* WHY *they are the way they are...their story. 

I've never been one that mainly looks to shining confidence in a man - to evaluate him and "sex rank" him... it is so much more than that... many of us has been hurt and need a little tender loving care ..... The loving influence of one person can change another's life.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Probably the man should first work on himself alone. The type of person who willing to get into a relationship where there is leftover baggage probably have their own baggage, like FW implied. 

Probably what is more likely is that the man can find a female friend where he is only looking to be friend. A female friend who not looking for anything else from that man can be a nuturer to help through the healing proces. 

Is that man you, Trey? If so I hope you can work through it. You don't seem like the average Joe and I think you would offer a lot to a relationship if you in a healthy state of mind.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Probably the man should first work on himself alone. The type of person who willing to get into a relationship where there is leftover baggage probably have their own baggage, like FW implied.
> 
> Probably what is more likely is that the man can find a female friend where he is only looking to be friend. A female friend who not looking for anything else from that man can be a nuturer to help through the healing proces.
> 
> Is that man you, Trey? If so I hope you can work through it. You don't seem like the average Joe and I think you would offer a lot to a relationship if you in a healthy state of mind.


I could do that for a lady and I understand where they might need support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> Probably the man should first work on himself alone. The type of person who willing to get into a relationship where there is leftover baggage probably have their own baggage, like FW implied.
> 
> Probably what is more likely is that the man can find a female friend where he is only looking to be friend. A female friend who not looking for anything else from that man can be a nuturer to help through the healing proces.
> 
> Is that man you, Trey? If so I hope you can work through it. You don't seem like the average Joe and I think you would offer a lot to a relationship if you in a healthy state of mind.


:iagree:

I agree that the man should take time to work on himself before getting involved with anyone. 

After that he's more likely to find a caring, loving woman. I sort of consider this a prerequisite to my post above.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Who believes man can go through an unjust situation where he is abused and blame directed to him?
> 
> Where he loses self esteem, his confidence is completely drained and belief in self low. He even looks "Ugly", "down", "distant", is overly self aware.
> 
> Is there a woman out there who believes a man can go through a terrible ordeal in a relationship that went bad, and perhaps their loving, their support, their touch over time could bring him back to life, and perhaps a handsome, sharp and intelligent man rises from the carnage of the tear down from a previous situation?


Yes, of course. We are all of us human and deserving of love and compassion & those things can bring out the best in us. There are many women who feel this way and support a man on his journey back.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I agree that the man should take time to work on himself before getting involved with anyone.
> 
> After that he's more likely to find a caring, loving woman. I sort of consider this a prerequisite to my post above.


:iagree::iagree:

This is very true and it is what made me attractive to my wife. I got rid of a lot of baggage from another relationship turned myself around and improved myself. The results were what my wife was attracted towards and she was the caring, loving woman that Elegirl referenced.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Sometimes you feel so poorly about yourself that you don't see that things could ever improve. It could be hard for a person who feels depressed to "work on themselves." If, he receives that love, affection and understanding from his SO he may build his confidence back up to the point where he can change.

Everybody wants to feel loved. If you don't it's a sad, sad world.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Is there a woman out there who believes a man can go through a terrible ordeal in a relationship that went bad, and perhaps their loving, their support, their touch over time could bring him back to life, and perhaps a handsome, sharp and intelligent man rises from the carnage of the tear down from a previous situation?


Yes - I'm currently there myself. A lot of heartache in my husband's past (including his failed first marriage) has given him a lot of self-esteem issues. 

The conclusion, however, I've come to after five years, however, is that my support, my love, and my touch is simply not enough to fix all of it. Professional intervention is needed to work through some of this hurt at a level I cannot provide, despite all my best efforts. So - while I am indeed working to help him "rise from the ashes" - we'll shortly be starting MC with possible IC for him or both of us. 

Some people may be able to bounce back purely with a supportive SO, and others may not.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Who believes man can go through an unjust situation where he is abused and blame directed to him?
> 
> Where he loses self esteem, his confidence is completely drained and belief in self low. He even looks "Ugly", "down", "distant", is overly self aware.
> 
> Is there a woman out there who believes a man can go through a terrible ordeal in a relationship that went bad, and perhaps their loving, their support, their touch over time could bring him back to life, and perhaps a handsome, sharp and intelligent man rises from the carnage of the tear down from a previous situation?


Ahhhh, I wasn't sure what was underlying in some of your recent posts.


I will share this -- I have told my spouse that I believe in him. I believe he is capable of much more in life. It's not about looks, sexual prowness, or how much money he makes. If I didn't believe in him, I would not care if he wants to waste his life. Each to their own. 

Why do women do this? They see the better man inside. They want their man to want to be a better man. To do his best. 

The term manning up --- it really does come from an expression meaning to stand up for your beliefs, values. Be a man, and don't go along with the crowd. Take a stand. But stand for something. 

Women seem to find this easier to do. We help each other to be independent, strong, and tend to talk more about our sense of self worth. 

But on the flip side, us women are not always aware of how we affect the male ego. We could do better. 

I would imagine it is much harder for a man to say he does not have confidence. Ego says it is a sign of weakness for a man. It isn't. It's called manning up. Being real. For women too. It is called manning up because it's a different process for men.

The same advice would apply, from me. Look inside. It's all there. It's totally possible. With the right support. 

Peace.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I most certainly do. Abuse isn't gender specific. People who have been abused often suffer from PTSD, but with the right help and support they can heal, regain their confidence / self-esteem and move forward.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

T my brother went through a difficult D that devastated him. His wife cheated and left him for the OM. He lost his confidence and sense of direction. So yes, I know men can be hurt badly. 

The first woman with whom he had a serious relationship, was at first just what he thought he needed. She was a self-confident professional and really helped him regain confidence. But as he recovered himself, she became controlling and critical of him and he eventually parted ways. 

He got involved with someone who was attracted to him in his broken state. When he changed, she could not deal with the whole man. 

My advice is to avoid getting into a LTR until you recover your confidence. Date more than one woman at a time while you recover yourself. Be honest with them, let them know you are seeing others and dating casually. 

By the time you feel yourself, you'll know what you want. 

BTW my brother is dating a very nice woman now. Too early to tell if it will be LT, he is very cautious now.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Who believes man can go through an unjust situation where he is abused and blame directed to him?
> 
> Where he loses self esteem, his confidence is completely drained and belief in self low. He even looks "Ugly", "down", "distant", is overly self aware.
> 
> Is there a woman out there who believes a man can go through a terrible ordeal in a relationship that went bad, and perhaps their loving, their support, their touch over time could bring him back to life, and perhaps a handsome, sharp and intelligent man rises from the carnage of the tear down from a previous situation?


Be wary of women that are looking for a "project", the ones that want to fix a man. IMHO it is not a healthy dynamic.

Having said that I do believe that a supportive partner can bring out the very best in their spouse. 

My partner had a difficult marriage to a woman with mental health issues,he will have to deal with the fallout for many years to come. When we met he was very upfront that he was not looking for a LTR, neither was i so all was good. But our relationship is one of those that was just meant to be. We are thriving and moving past all sorts of issues that we both had from our previous marriages.

I told him very early on that I was not interested in a man that was a "project", I understood that he had a painful past and a difficult situation but I was not there to fix anything. I need to look up to a man, that does not mean he has to be at the top of his game, it means that he needs to recognise who he is, what he needs to do and is pro active about doing it.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tracyishere said:


> Sometimes you feel so poorly about yourself that you don't see that things could ever improve. It could be hard for a person who feels depressed to "work on themselves." If, he receives that love, affection and understanding from his SO he may build his confidence back up to the point where he can change.
> 
> Everybody wants to feel loved. If you don't it's a sad, sad world.


Yeah, I can identify with this. My reasons are different than that posed by OP. Unhealthy situation for a long time and I can't find a way to fix it. It has worn me down.

There hardly goes a day where it doesn't cross my mind that at 46, my days of being loved are over. Worse yet, it crosses my mind that I'm not worth loving. On the face of it that seems ridiculous but those thoughts still cross my mind. I've always been a hopeful person and have always believed I can accomplish anything I put my mind to ... but that perspective has been gone for awhile. Beaten out of me. It is a battle.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Here is my view... I look for Self Awareness  in people.. if they have THAT going on.... there is HOPE for them..

It also helps if they were not born with mental issues....so if they made some prior mistakes in relationships...even whoppers... which dragged them to hell for a time while they were still trying to hold on....which so many do, while this clouds their reality... and takes a hit on their self esteem....

I could still hold onto HOPE this person could come out of the fog, so long as they could take ownership of their past mistakes in choosing wrong partners, and TALKING about their experiences (this is often like therapy itself)......these people have a decent chance of becoming WHOLE again...and being good partners, they may struggle in some areas more than others ...triggers... but it doesn't mean they are hopeless... just need to find someone who has FAITH in them...

Thank God such people exist in this world, or it'd be a really lonely place....


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

If a guy had a disease which caused him to lose one of his hands, would he then look for a partner to share the disease?
Not, me.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

hookares said:


> If a guy had a disease which caused him to lose one of his hands, would he then look for a partner to share the disease?
> Not, me.


Abuse isn't a disease or a disability. It's something that has been perpetrated against someone. Providing that person receives the right help and support, they can heal and recover.

I did.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit (Sep 14, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yeah, I can identify with this. My reasons are different than that posed by OP. Unhealthy situation for a long time and I can't find a way to fix it. It has worn me down.
> 
> There hardly goes a day where it doesn't cross my mind that at 46, my days of being loved are over. Worse yet, it crosses my mind that I'm not worth loving. On the face of it that seems ridiculous but those thoughts still cross my mind. I've always been a hopeful person and have always believed I can accomplish anything I put my mind to ... but that perspective has been gone for awhile. Beaten out of me. It is a battle.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


I hear you, I'm on the same boat, not sure what else to do and I feel hopeless, confidence is low so what I try to do is to focus on my kids being well...is a very hard place to be, I know inside I deserve better, however is hard to take the first step is like I'm paralyzed...


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Who believes man can go through an unjust situation where he is abused and blame directed to him?
> 
> Where he loses self esteem, his confidence is completely drained and belief in self low. He even looks "Ugly", "down", "distant", is overly self aware.


Absolutely. And I think the denial that it can happen to men, and the reliance on just telling a guy to grab himself by the ballz and be a man doesn't help a bit. Abuse is abuse and it causes the same kind of mental and emotional and physical aftereffects in men and women. 



treyvion said:


> Is there a woman out there who believes a man can go through a terrible ordeal in a relationship that went bad, and perhaps their loving, their support, their touch over time could bring him back to life, and perhaps a handsome, sharp and intelligent man rises from the carnage of the tear down from a previous situation?


This one I have to qualify -- I absolutely positively believe that a person who has been in a previous abusive relationship can be in a healthy relationship in the future. However, I don't believe anyone should expect that another person's love, support, etc., will be the thing to bring them back. If that abused person does not do the individual work through therapy, learning about how they got into that relationship in the first place (FOO issues perhaps?), why they stayed (CD perhaps?), and how not to let it happen again, it won't matter how saintly the new partner may be. It's simply not fair to the new partner, either. I was in an abusive marriage. I don't want to be in an abusive relationship ever again, so one of my highest priorities has been working on myself. As a corollary, I don't want my issues to badly affect any future partner(s), so I think it's only fair that I do it for them, too. My ex did not work on his FOO issues. We knew about them, and knew they could affect us, but that awareness was not enough. I couldn't love him out of it, and in fact, he started repeating the very things he hated his parents doing.

So, I wouldn't consider an abused man to be unlovable in any way, but I'd have to see that he had the self-awareness and the self-love to want to be healthy with or without me.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Angelpixie said: And I think the denial that it can happen to men, and the reliance on just telling a guy to grab himself by the ballz and be a man doesn't help a bit. Abuse is abuse and it causes the same kind of mental and emotional and physical aftereffects in men and women.


:iagree: Which is why so few men seek help / admit to abuse... Whilst abuse perpetrated on men can certainly be physical, it tends to be more emotional, sexual and sometimes financial. 

Bones mend, bruises fade, but emotional abuse can take years to heal.


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## Boottothehead (Sep 3, 2013)

"The conclusion, however, I've come to after five years, however, is that my support, my love, and my touch is simply not enough to fix all of it. Professional intervention is needed to work through some of this hurt at a level I cannot provide, despite all my best efforts. So - while I am indeed working to help him "rise from the ashes" - we'll shortly be starting MC with possible IC for him or both of us."

You can't fix someone else. But you can stand with them and support them when they need you to have their back, either as a partner or as a friend.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> I hear you, I'm on the same boat, not sure what else to do and I feel hopeless, confidence is low so what I try to do is to focus on my kids being well...is a very hard place to be, I know inside I deserve better, however is hard to take the first step is like I'm paralyzed...


A few hours ago I was at the gas station and went in to get a drink. It's a store I go to on a regular basis so the people who work there recognize me. I make small talk with them frequently and have made a point to remember their names.

Anyway, I shared a laugh with a couple of the girls that work there as I was buying my drink and then left to fill-up my car. A minute later one of the girls comes out and I spot her walking straight towards me. It looked like she was just coming out to empty the garbage cans but instead she hands me a folded piece of paper. I asked "what's this?" and she smiled and walked away. Opened it up and it said ... "Call me sometime. (xxx)xxx-xxxx. Michelle (smiley face)".

Now before anybody gets any ideas, I am still married and have no intention of calling this woman. That piece of paper is already in the garbage. I did nothing to provoke it except that I was friendly ... but I'm friendly with everyone ... and when I say friendly, I do not mean flirty ... nothing of the sort.

You want at least a short-term boost with confidence? Something like that will do it. Made me feel like a million bucks









EDIT: Btw, I just turned 46 this past month. Not only is this girl attractive but if I had to guess I would say I could be 20 years older than her. Maybe I still got it going on after all


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> A few hours ago I was at the gas station and went in to get a drink. It's a store I go to on a regular basis so the people who work there recognize me. I make small talk with them frequently and have made a point to remember their names.
> 
> Anyway, I shared a laugh with a couple of the girls that work there as I was buying my drink and then left to fill-up my car. A minute later one of the girls comes out and I spot her walking straight towards me. It looked like she was just coming out to empty the garbage cans but instead she hands me a folded piece of paper. I asked "what's this?" and she smiled and walked away. Opened it up and it said ... "Call me sometime. (xxx)xxx-xxxx. Michelle (smiley face)".
> 
> ...


What if she was 45, in excellent shape a beautiful woman with her own business who did the same thing? Still have it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > A few hours ago I was at the gas station and went in to get a drink. It's a store I go to on a regular basis so the people who work there recognize me. I make small talk with them frequently and have made a point to remember their names.
> ...


I would like to think I'm better than that. In this case, if I was single, I would probably have called her and yet I had no reservations about throwing it out. Would that be different if she was attractive, closer to my age and more 'my type' ... in other words, an educated professional? I can't say ... it would be tempting to keep the number to keep the option open if I become available. It would cross my mind but still I'd like to believe I'd do the right thing.

The point really was that just knowing I could be desirable to someone, enough to have somebody I barely know go out of their way to give me their number, instantly improved my frame of mind.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I would like to think I'm better than that. In this case, if I was single, I would probably have called her and yet I had no reservations about throwing it out. Would that be different if she was attractive, closer to my age and more 'my type' ... in other words, an educated professional? I can't say ... it would be tempting to keep the number to keep the option open if I become available. It would cross my mind but still I'd like to believe I'd do the right thing.
> 
> The point really was that just knowing I could be desirable to someone, enough to have somebody I barely know go out of their way to give me their number, instantly improved my frame of mind.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


I was seeing if youth trumped an older but beautiful and established one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> I was seeing if youth trumped an older but beautiful and established one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No. Sounds like a question for a different thread but in my view, while there is something very flattering about having a much younger person take an interest, there would seem to me to be too many red flags about that wide of an age difference ... or better put, that wide of a difference in life experience. I am sure I am in a completely different place in my life. If I was single, maybe it would be fun to explore that for awhile but in the end, I am more attracted to women closer to my age.

EDIT: Actually, let me modify my response. I think either one would be equally flattering for mostly different reasons. However, in terms of pursuing, if I was in a position to do so, the one closer to my age would be preferable and more realistic. The choice to ditch the number given my current situation has little if anything to do with how attractive the offer is.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't think it is age so much as weight and attitude. If an older woman is overweight, sedentary, shy about her body, pessimistic and distrustful of men then they are much less attractive. 

I have met women who are in their 40s who are toned, active, respect themselves, and self-confident. The most striking attribute is that they like men even though they are divorced. 

These women don't seem to have problems attracting decent men. Some date younger men for fun but most settle on a men close to their age. 

They also like life and have interests that they pursue. Some women just hunt men some live life and invite men along if they so desire. 

They don't look 20 or 30 but they look good enough. From what i see, there are enough men to go around for women of the above type.

I think if you believe there is no one around then that's what you see. The men who are looking for 20 yr. olds, are not in their dating pool. So what, everyone has a right to make a choice. .


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't think it is age so much as weight and attitude. If an older woman is overweight, sedentary, shy about her body, pessimistic and distrustful of men then they are much less attractive.
> 
> I have met women who are in their 40s who are toned, active, respect themselves, and self-confident. The most striking attribute is that they like men even though they are divorced.
> 
> ...


Beware the women who just hunt men. Live life, find someone who also likes to live life, and then share.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> You can't fix someone else. But you can stand with them and support them when they need you to have their back, either as a partner or as a friend.


I agree with that. And I didn't mean to indicate the contrary. 

However, I still maintain that at some point, there's a line at some point between "having someone's back" and something beyond that, wherein you expect the other person to be able to relieve all of your burdens, to be able to soothe and to make up for wrongs committed by other parties in the past. As Angelpixie noted, there are boundaries on what is reasonable level of expectation for a partner. 

In short, its unreasonable to expect a partner to be one's sole source of comfort. One eventually needs to either find internal or external (be that therapy or God) sources for that validation, as it can really emotionally and mentally overwhelm a partner to try and be the sole source of that support.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> A few hours ago I was at the gas station and went in to get a drink. It's a store I go to on a regular basis so the people who work there recognize me. I make small talk with them frequently and have made a point to remember their names.
> 
> Anyway, I shared a laugh with a couple of the girls that work there as I was buying my drink and then left to fill-up my car. A minute later one of the girls comes out and I spot her walking straight towards me. It looked like she was just coming out to empty the garbage cans but instead she hands me a folded piece of paper. I asked "what's this?" and she smiled and walked away. Opened it up and it said ... "Call me sometime. (xxx)xxx-xxxx. Michelle (smiley face)".
> 
> ...


Where do you get gas?

(Nah, never mind. Those sorts of things never happen to me, for a reason I'm pretty sure)

ETA: My post was too silly for this thread, after having now read it. FWIW, the thought to post it sprung from my knowledge I live within 15 miles or so of JSGW, so as unlikely as it seems I could actually get my gas there. Wouldn't do it though, for multiple reasons. And it certainly would have the same result for me 

Treyvion, the way you described this person is how I have often felt, for years. I haven't looked up your thread yet, but have read many if your post on others'', and sense some similarities might exist.

You seem to recognize the man you described is not in his natural state. Don't forget that.

No doubt you have much to offer someone, and can find that someone who will offer what you need in return.

I'm finding some capacity to see myself differently through my IC sessions. Probably no coincidence I picked a female counselor, as I'll confess a hunger to be seen and valued/validated by a woman I respect -- dunno. But, the main thing is hearing another person's view validate mine -- that what I put up with was not deserved, normal, or a life-sentence. And when I am down, it helps to hear her tell me: "That's the depression talking."

Little by little, I think I heading in a better direction.


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## Forever Changed (Sep 18, 2012)

tracyishere said:


> Everybody wants to feel loved. If you don't it's a sad, sad world.


And if you don't want to feel loved.

Is there anything wrong with that?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Yes. Because if you don't or can't feel love, it makes it easier to be callous to others.


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## Forever Changed (Sep 18, 2012)

Question answered. Thank you. That has what happening here.

I make zero apologies. NMMNG Angel!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

PieceOfSky said:


> Where do you get gas?
> 
> (Nah, never mind. Those sorts of things never happen to me, for a reason I'm pretty sure)


Eating beans. Glad it doesn't happen to you. 

Seriously, it probably happens but you dont notice. You already counted yourself out. I can tell from your statement. If it happens to others, why would you be left out of chance encounters? Open yourself to it.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Forever Changed said:


> Question answered. Thank you. That has what happening here.
> 
> I make zero apologies. NMMNG Angel!


That's very sad, Dan. I think you'll end up regretting this choice, but it is your choice. I know that I do not feel emotionally safe around someone who chooses not to need or feel love. Love is part of empathy and compassion. There are some disorders that have the inability to feel empathy or compassion as part of their definition. It's one thing if someone has that but doesn't choose it. But for someone to *choose* to be this way is very sad for this world.


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## Forever Changed (Sep 18, 2012)

You know the story Angel and this is what it has come to.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I do know the story, Dan, and you know I have always supported you, from the first time you came to TAM. This is not your only choice, but it is the choice you are making.

ETA: I understand that a lot of the things in your life are not in your control. And I think this is a way you feel you can take some of that control back, and keep yourself from being hurt. And you're willing to give up feeling love and giving love in exchange for not being hurt.


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## Forever Changed (Sep 18, 2012)

I know you have supported me Angel (and others on TAM of course), but especially you literally saved my life. You know how I was ... seconds away. And I am forever thankful that you were there for me. Please believe that. If I could, I would buy you whatever you wanted as a thankyou gift. No expense spared.

And my mind has chemically changed so I have given up on finding 'love' because I have been hurt one too many times. 

Never again.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Why why why?
Sorry off-topic but everytime I see this thread title, this song pops into my head:

Nickelback - Gotta be Somebody with lyrics - YouTube

lol


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)




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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Oy! WTF? lol


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

:rofl:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Who believes man can go through an unjust situation where he is abused and blame directed to him?
> 
> Where he loses self esteem, his confidence is completely drained and belief in self low. He even looks "Ugly", "down", "distant", is overly self aware.
> 
> Is there a woman out there who believes a man can go through a terrible ordeal in a relationship that went bad, and perhaps their loving, their support, their touch over time could bring him back to life, and perhaps a handsome, sharp and intelligent man rises from the carnage of the tear down from a previous situation?


The short answer is yes.

The long answer is, without a "measure" of confidence, a "spark" of liveliness, and meaningful eye contact, how would you attract a woman who could look beyond the moments of self doubt to see the potential of the man inside?

I think the vast majority of women see men in terms of his potential, potential lover, potential friend, potential husband/father... But you would have to show potential in order for it to be seen. Some women are better then others assessing a mans potential.

So...
Dress and groom well.
Make meaningful eye contact.
Smile that also reaches your eyes.
Show interest in what is on her mind, instead of trying to hide the self defeating thoughts that flood your mind.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Is there a woman out there who believes a man can go through a terrible ordeal in a relationship that went bad, and perhaps their loving, their support, their touch over time could bring him back to life, and perhaps a handsome, sharp and intelligent man rises from the carnage of the tear down from a previous situation?


I don't. 
And the reason why is I wouldn't want to think that "my touch" could heal a man. A man needs to work on his issues on his own, and become happy on his own. If he only heals because of a new woman's touch, then that means he is only using her newness as a bandaid.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> I don't.
> And the reason why is I wouldn't want to think that "my touch" could heal a man. A man needs to work on his issues on his own, and become happy on his own. If he only heals because of a new woman's touch, then that means he is only using her newness as a bandaid.


People don't heal in vaccuums and don't heal in maintained negative environments. A good relationship partner could speed the healing of someone who went through a bad ordeal with another. I know it for a fact.

You don't even have to say a word, sit in the room with a positive attitude, share good time with the person... The past will fade off into the distance.

Isolated by yourself, and with no supportive partners to interact with is not a way to heal and not a faster or better way to heal.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> I don't.
> And the reason why is I wouldn't want to think that "my touch" could heal a man. A man needs to work on his issues on his own, and become happy on his own. If he only heals because of a new woman's touch, then that means he is only using her newness as a bandaid.


And the guy or lady who went through the ordeal may not have any issues, except they are now hurt and feel violated and low trust towards others.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Trey, you asked a question and I answered. Now you are countering it. Lol.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Trey, you asked a question and I answered. Now you are countering it. Lol.


TAM is very useful for gathering viewpoints regarding these subjects around bad and good marriages and relationships alike.

It was in my experience. I went through an extremely abusive and corrosive relationship environment.

At the end I was pretty strong and able to drive on towards my goals. I was still using pain to drive me, and still had hurt.

The hurt went away nearly instantaneously due to a few girlfriends who accepted me, and shared good time. I realized that I could go back into that mess where I will be certain to be treated worse than an inmate in a violent prison, or I could go on
and enjoy even "normal" relationships which are light years ahead.

Ego and confidence restored, not to 100% but a good chunk restored over night.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

But that's not always the experience, Treyvion. 

Some people can dedicate months or years trying to fix a partner who is "broken" and no amount of acceptance, good times, or positive attitudes will fix that.

And until you've been the partner trying to provide that acceptance, only to have the effort be for naught, it's really difficult to comment on. I seem to have a long history of attracting "fixer uppers" - so trust me when I say, while one person may get healed, someone else might take on scars for the effort.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> But that's not always the experience, Treyvion.
> 
> Some people can dedicate months or years trying to fix a partner who is "broken" and no amount of acceptance, good times, or positive attitudes will fix that.
> 
> And until you've been the partner trying to provide that acceptance, only to have the effort be for naught, it's really difficult to comment on. I seem to have a long history of attracting "fixer uppers" - so trust me when I say, while one person may get healed, someone else might take on scars for the effort.


There's bad people out there and there is nothing to fix. You can accept them for what they are.

People who've simply been hurt are not bad people and don't really need anyone to fix them, they don't need to be isolated and in a vacuum either.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

treyvion said:


> People who've simply been hurt are not bad people and don't really need anyone to fix them, they don't need to be isolated and in a vacuum either.


My husband was jaded by women when we met, decently young at age 18....he had a Job, decent grades a nice family...but in his view women were unattainable, he didn't believe any would give him a chance....he was dumped twice and pretty much resolved he'd probably never find what he was looking for (probably too focused on women- I'll give you that)... 

I am going to say...that HE and I.... came from 2 different experiences that were hurtful...*we had some insecurities to wade through*......and our getting together... breathed new life into both of us... so there is no way in this world I would put down 2 imperfect souls colliding and building each other up...as they walk in this life... To each their own, it's good there is a variety of people & viewpoints on this one .. 

He held me up where I needed some tender loving care... and I held him up where he needed some tender Loving care....

However... I do not believe I could handle someone depressed.. circumstances that bring us down is one thing, overcoming, talking through a hard time/ rough patch....but when it's a brain thing that can't get off the depressed thread mill no matter if the circumstances call for a shout for Joy/ celebration...this wouldn't work for me personally.... THAT would drag me down.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Treyvion, I respect what you are trying to say. I think that healing would be much easier in the presence of someone positive and loving than it is in the presence of someone negative. But an abusive relationship isn't like someone painting a fence with an ugly color, then another person coming along and cleaning the fence up and painting it a pretty color. Abuse doesn't just touch the surface. Many of us who have answered you have been in abusive relationships ourselves. And some of them were relationships with spouses, which we thought would help to 'heal' us from abusive relationships with our parents, growing up. More often than not, it doesn't work that way. In fact, some therapists theorize that we marry the 'parent' with whom we had the worst relationship, in an attempt to have it turn out better. And it doesn't. It's a subconscious thing most of us don't even realize without help. 

Nobody is saying that someone who has been abused is bad. If you have a broken bone, do you consider that bone 'bad', and deny it a cast? No. If you get an illness, do you treat your body, or do you think that is labeling your body as 'bad'? The help people are talking about is along the same lines -- abuse does change a person. Sometimes it creates reactions that need to be un-learned and new reactions learned in their places. That doesn't make the person bad in any way. It's working towards healing. It's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, or to avoid. 

And yes, it can be done without a relationship partner. All but one of the women in my domestic violence support group are currently without a partner. I and many of the others _wanted_ to be on our own and get through the healing on our own in order to be whole when we even started looking for a new partner. 

So you may not agree with some people here, but it doesn't mean they are wrong.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Starstarfish said:


> But that's not always the experience, Treyvion.
> 
> *Some people can dedicate months or years trying to fix a partner who is "broken" and no amount of acceptance, good times, or positive attitudes will fix that.*
> 
> And until you've been the partner trying to provide that acceptance, only to have the effort be for naught, it's really difficult to comment on. I seem to have a long history of attracting "fixer uppers" - so trust me when I say, while one person may get healed, someone else might take on scars for the effort.


I think that is the problem with some situations but it does not sound like it is in the OPs situation. Trying to fix another is futile and TBH not a positive character trait in the person being the fixer. Being a support or providing a positive environment around another can be a very good thing for both people though.

When SO and I first started dating it became apparent quickly that his past and his ex were fraught with damage and issues. I am not a "fixer" type of person I am a "rock" type of person. 
Simply said to him that I was not looking for a project, I understood he had come from hell and I would/could not fix that. He had to do all his own work and carry his own baggage.

We have come out the other end with an extremely strong love and bond. We are there for each other but we do not carry each others baggage. If there is fallout from past issues on either side we give the love and space to work through whatever it is, in a safe and supportive environment.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Also, what's the possibility that partner one might start a relationship with when they need loving support might differ even perhaps vastly from the kind of partner one wants when they are indeed, confident, see themselves as handsome, and are outgoing again. When that support is no longer needed, and the "transformation" is complete will the relationship still have the same "glue?"

For some people the answer is yes, and that's amazing, but - some of the threads on TAM tell me this might not always be the case, that some couples who "meld" during a crisis don't always go well into "peace time." That people "out grow" each other when that "rock" is no longer needed. 

I'm not really sure what my conclusion is after that thought. I suppose this topic is a bit triggering for me, so doesn't lead me to the best forward thinking ideas.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Starstarfish I am not sure there really is any absolute conclusion, we are all on different paths and sometimes it is the combination of two people that can be a really good thing or a really bad thing.

All I can say that is in my own situation both SO and I had plenty of baggage but we are a good combination and have used our pasts to learn and grow together. We both agree this is the best, healthiest relationship either of us has experienced. 

I wish you well on your journey.


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## pinotnoir (Jul 13, 2013)

tracyishere said:


> Sometimes you feel so poorly about yourself that you don't see that things could ever improve. It could be hard for a person who feels depressed to "work on themselves." If, he receives that love, affection and understanding from his SO he may build his confidence back up to the point where he can change.
> 
> Everybody wants to feel loved. If you don't it's a sad, sad world.


:iagree:


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

For those of you who've dealt with this issue (whether being the man or the woman in the dynamic), I don't mean to threadjack, but - perhaps you can help me over on my thread. This is and has been a major theme in my marriage, a husband lacking confidence and conviction because of past experiences. Leading him to depression and anxiety issues. 

I need to update and give more details, but here we go:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/122242-husband-being-demoted.html

But, apparently, what I've been doing isn't really helping, and I'm increasingly at a loss about what to do, as sometimes I feel like I'm facing some whirlwind of discontent I had no hand in making, and it's really crushing. We apparently haven't really found a dynamic that is working, but I truly do want to. So, any advice or ideas, would be greatly appreciated.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

pinotnoir said:


> :iagree:


That's all I was saying. And those basic nuggets of acceptance, closeness and intimacy add up to alot when were were starved of it. In my case it was an overnight difference. Not fully restored, but more like leveled and working back to a rightful "norm".


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