# Need Advice: Ex-wife False Allegations Involving Children



## Thomas0311 (Dec 19, 2016)

My history with my ex-wife was posted recently to the thread "Co-Parenting Challenges After Divorce" on this board - I suspect she has BPD. We are currently in a dispute over Date Night time spent with the girls (she has 75% custodial time with the girls so for each 1 day period they are with her I've taken them out to dinner on dates), where lately she has been restricting my established access to the girls in order to create more time with them and her new husband. My lawyer is involved in this and things are moving toward mediation (ultimately court order if she continues to be difficult) - I'm feeling good that will be resolved in time and I'm continuing to push for what is best for my daughters. 

As a side product to this, my ex-wife just sent an e-mail that contains a false allegation involving the medical care of our 5 year old (who has an advanced heart condition). 

She wrote:


> Hi [me],
> 
> I wanted to have an open dialogue about [DD 5yr old] medication. This evening when I was giving her the medicine, [DD 5yr old] mentioned that she doesn't get amoxicillin, epanded (enalripril) vitamin or aspirinat your house. I asked if she already took half a tablet of aspirin since the doctors have increased her dose to half a tablet twice a day. She said no. [DD 8yr old] chimed in and said that [DD 5yr old] only gets the shot (lovenox) when with you.
> 
> ...


I reacted too quickly in sending her this (my mistake in feeding the BPDs need for drama) immediately as a response. I shouldn't have written from am emotional place, and my deeper frustration at her making this allegation up and bringing our daughters into the middle of it (blaming their words; which I'm sure they never spoke):

I wrote:


> I do not appreciate you lieing about this. I am aware of [DD 5yr old] shot and medication schedule, she receives them during bedtime and in the mornings. What are you trying to pull here?


She (her husband I assume, since I've never seen her this restrained in her response to conflict) wrote:


> I do not appreciate being called a liar or accusing me of trying to "pull something". This type of a response does not facilitate productive conversations between us.
> A few weeks ago we all had an email exchange about being able to openly communicate with one another to better co-parent the girls when this exact type of situation occurs. In that email you said [new husband] and I could come to you and you wouldn't feel attacked.
> 
> How would you recommend we communicate when the girls come home saying one thing and we want to discuss it with you?


I wrote back (what I should have responded with originally):


> This is about [DD 5yr old], not us. You are misinformed about her shots/medication routine. She receives them all. Is there anything relating to [5 yr old] and her medication schedule you are still concerned about or want to discuss?


(more language that isn't in her vocabulary):


> You're right - this specific example is about [DD 5yr old], but it's also about us.
> 
> You and I need to be able to freely communicate and be able to ask one another questions when there is a discrepancy between what the girls say and what we assume is occurring at the other parents house.
> 
> ...


So I responded with:


> I cannot address your "discrepancy" issue but I can assure you that [DD 5yr old] is getting her medications when she is with me.


they finally wrote:


> Great. Thanks [me]. I assumed as much, but needed to do my due diligence and ask the question.


First, let this be a lesson in dealing with BPD. My initial response isn't doing me any favors in her attempt to vilify me to her new husband (who is helping her craft these e-mails). I've learned how reacting emotionally fuels them and makes things worse... despite that I still make this mistake once in a blue moon (ugh). You see how she backs down when the conversation is dialed back to the issue at hand (our daughter) logic devoid of emotion.

Should I be concerned about her, with this? I know that exes are capable of all kinds of damaging and destructive behavior if/when they feel threatened about their custody of the children/ What can I do to protect myself from such allegations as the ones above? It scares me, frankly. :\

I don't doubt that the next time I see her she's going to have prepped my youngest to say something she wants her to in regard to this. I'm already anticipating it and stopping it short saying "this is something you and I should talk about... without the children."


----------



## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Be careful of the BPD train. I believe that my wife shows many characteristics of BPD and it's the best explanation I can come up with to understand her behavior. BUT it's not all a perfect fit and I'm not able to accurately diagnose.

Your wife's initial response did not seem out of line to me. She laid out the scenario with the girls, asked some questions and stated her concerns. A pretty good response from a mother concerned about the health of her child. She did seem frustrated with your defensive response.

Work on you and how you react to pressure. 

~ Passio


----------



## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I also think you overreacted. The initial contact by your ex was reasonable. The appropriate response would have been short and direct. Something like - yes, she is getting all of her medication.


----------



## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> I also think you overreacted. The initial contact by your ex was reasonable. The appropriate response would have been short and direct. Something like - yes, she is getting all of her medication.


Agree

I did not see as she was out to get you, just a concerned parent getting different information from her children. Parents are conditioned to believe their children above anyone else.


----------



## josephddiazz (Sep 20, 2016)

Idyit said:


> Be careful of the BPD train. I believe that my wife shows many characteristics of BPD and it's the best explanation I can come up with to understand her behavior. BUT it's not all a perfect fit and I'm not able to accurately diagnose.
> 
> Your wife's initial response did not seem out of line to me. She laid out the scenario with the girls, asked some questions and stated her concerns. A pretty good response from a mother concerned about the health of her child. She did seem frustrated with your defensive response.
> 
> ...


I agree with the above, the more you work on controlling your emotions and remaining logical, the easier it will be for you two to be friendly with eachother.


----------



## Thomas0311 (Dec 19, 2016)

Agreed with all of the above. Wish I had followed my rule of waiting a day to respond to anything that isn't time sensitive. I didn't get through the entire e-mail before I responded to this part

"In fact both girls *were adamant* that [DD 5yr old] *never gets any* medicine at your house except for lovenox..."

...because it doesn't jive with reality. She's claiming to have heard that both of my daughters are saying D5 never gets medication at my house. Yet D5 has received it every morning and evening for years. My daughter and I even joke about the ordering in which she takes them (she has a routine where she likes to end with the best tasting one). Granted this is a child's mind and I understand a parents concern over interpretations and confusion (We don't trust one another), but it seems she is falsifying statements from our daughters, which I am naturally defensive to.

I want to make sure I protect myself in case she takes this further. I will begin detailed records by paper.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I would recommend a small hand-held type recording of her taking all medications on time. So for example, a quick "cell video" of each dose, with timestamp clearly visible, saved to your hard drive in a monthly folder. This would 100% completely defend you against any nonsense she might attempt to pull. Keeping detailed written records will also be admissible in court, but obviously "could" be falsified...whereas timestamped videos would be pretty solid. The two of them together--air tight.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ne9907 said:


> Agree
> 
> I did not see as she was out to get you, just a concerned parent getting different information from her children. Parents are conditioned to believe their children above anyone else.


While not BPD, my ex wife is diagnosed NPD, and boy...one really has to be good at reading between the lines with people like that because they are masters at convincing others that they are reasonable...concerned parent my ass.

Thomas...how deeply have you looked into parallel parenting as a strategy? Coparenting with someone like this is extraordinarily difficult at best.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Thomas i know your taking the higher ground but damn it when will you realize you are playing with a CHEATER who will try to manipulate the situation. Stop being the nie guy and its time her new hubby knows what kind of woman she married.


----------



## Thomas0311 (Dec 19, 2016)

Xenote said:


> Thomas i know your taking the higher ground but damn it when will you realize you are playing with a CHEATER who will try to manipulate the situation. Stop being the nie guy and its time her new hubby knows what kind of woman she married.


I'm not sure what I can do... short of heading to court to fight for 50/50 custody, but even if I win that, then there will still be these issues to deal with. My approach has been walking this tightrope of being as involved as I possibly can with my daughters lives, while avoiding the landmines she throws as she reacts to my involvement. It is extremely subtle and she's a master of blending in...

There is a couple in the neighborhood she lives in (same we used to live in) who is extremely social and involved in neighborhood politics. The husband is someone I confided in as our marriage fell apart. He's a good guy, great listener... but I lost touch with him the last two years... because I stopped talking to people about my divorce - and I'm an introvert, I tend to keep a much smaller group of friends. I wanted to move on with my life. Anyway, now that the kids are back in the same school and my daughter and his daughter are on the same soccer team and have become best friends. I saw this guy at one of the events and we caught up. I took my daughter to his daughters birthday party, and we went to dinner. My ex-wife must have caught wind of this from my daughter and her reaction was to set up a play date through his wife where she subtly bashed me (saying I walked out on them) to her and cried in front of her in the same room as my daughters. His wife already knew about our past so she feigned a helping hand but obviously knew this was an act. This kind of behavior creates an anxiety in me... that anyone who has interacted with my ex-wife must think I'm a monster. It works against my goal to be involved in my daughters lives, so I've done my best to ignore it... the whole "who cares what people think" and "the opinions of people who don't really know me don't matter"... it's difficult to shake.


----------



## Thomas0311 (Dec 19, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> I would recommend a small hand-held type recording of her taking all medications on time. So for example, a quick "cell video" of each dose, with timestamp clearly visible, saved to your hard drive in a monthly folder. This would 100% completely defend you against any nonsense she might attempt to pull. Keeping detailed written records will also be admissible in court, but obviously "could" be falsified...whereas timestamped videos would be pretty solid. The two of them together--air tight.


That's excellent advice, it would be simple to record a video on my phone and upload it to my Google Drive daily. I can make a game out of it with my daughter as we say what day it is every time she takes her meds. "What's today!? December 21st... is it Tuesday? nope Wednesday!"... Create folders for each year/month. I like that idea


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I agree that what you said was a little aggressive. That in turn made her response on the aggressive side. In situations like these as hard as it is, even when we think that the other is lying or pulling shenanigans, you have to respond in a very nice tone. I would advice not to use e-mail or text for these kinds of conversations since they can be printed and taken into court to prove alleged aggressiveness toward her.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I understand why you reacted the way you did to her email OP, I'm sure this isn't the first time you've received an email like that.

One way to avoid the "you're not administering the medication correctly" problem is to make up a little chart/roster or something like that, with each dose scheduled, and then ticked off each time you give it to your little girl - she could stick a gold star or something next to it, to get her involved..."you get a gold star for being such a good girl and taking your medicine" type thing. Video each dose. Sucks that you have to do this, but it's the safest option I think.

On the email thing, I do draft emails sometimes for my husband to send to his ex wife (she can be high conflict and she LOVES drama). He reads them, edits them to sound more like him and then sends them.

As far as "them" approaching you about parenting issues with the girls...NO NO NO. Their mother can approach you, but not the stepfather. Same in reverse. I'm a stepmum and if there was ever a parenting issue that needed discussing with his ex wife, my husband did it. That's past tense because we now have her full time.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I hate to say this, but your ex may be manipulating the medication to make it look like you didn't give it to your daughter. She may not be giving it to her properly and it could be her way of blame shifting.

The idea of recording every single dose is excellent and I recommend implementing that immediately. Also your idea to put it on Google Drive is a great way to make sure nothing happens to the recordings.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sorry but looks to me like the kids have control of this situation lol. This whole back and forth was started by what a 5 year old said. Let me say that again, what a 5 year old Said which was backed by an 8 year old statement. Now your ex had a choice, totally believe or disbelieve your kids, or ask and clarify which is what she did. I haven't a clue why you became so agreesive about that, maybe history, but if I am in her shoes I would do the exact same thing, ask and clarify. I don't have BPD.

I have experienced this myself when my oldest daughter told her mother that she was administering medication to my youngest daughter. This was not the case and in fact what she did give my youngest with my permission was a chewable vitamin. Of course my x asked about it and I clarified. That's what co parenting is. I think you significantly over reacted to a simple clarification question.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

What many people are suggesting (you over reacted) is most likely wrong. Dealing with a person who is BPD is living in awhole different universe. They seem to have a built in pyscho babble Phd to justify their actions. Read @Uptown many posts.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

John, thanks again for recommending my posts on BPD. Actually, Thomas and I discussed BPD support groups several days ago in his other thread.

Thomas, it is evident that you already are quite knowledgeable about BPD behaviors. But, if you would like to read about my experiences with my exW, I would suggest you take a look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ and my more detailed description of them in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join John and the other respondents in discussing them with you.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The key here, I think, is to keep your emotion out of it. Out of all of it. She'll feed on the emotion.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Your obvious frustration and defensiveness in your emails is like nectar of the gods for a BPDer. 

Anything in text must be emotionless and matter of fact in delivery.


----------



## Thomas0311 (Dec 19, 2016)

She wrote:



> In fact both girls were adamant that [DD 5yr old] never gets any medicine at your house except for lovenox, which I find hard to believe.


This was the part that I reacted to, the straw that broke the camels back... I replied before getting any further in her e-mail, and broke down after it. Which is rare for me. I'm a sensitive guy, but very logical and rational in how I deal with life. I have strong emotions, but I lead life with logic... and in the cases where I feel emotions driving my actions I feel very at odds, and lack an internal peace, I tend to start over thinking to an extreme (analyzing) when this happens... it's why I start to lose sleep and spin on things until I understand why and how I'm feeling the way I am, and then the emotions seem to have no affect after I do. That's why support from people who understand means a lot... getting perspectives and awareness from others who've been through similar helps me to develop my own understanding of what's happening around me. I read all of the responses above and I'm very appreciative for everyones thoughts and insights. It's more helpful than you know.

Not sure how much people here know of Myers Briggs... I'm a typical INTJ, though low J... so I tend to be a bit more contemplative (like the twin INTP) assessing things from multiple angles and my life it seems is about strategizing and organizing things to be efficient based on my internal value system, which is about my daughters and protecting them, in almost all interactions I have with her. That was the basis, I think, in my reaction above... I couldn't believe she'd make something like the quote above up... it's mild compared to what others here have dealt with. Maybe my ex-wife doesn't have BPD, but she has some variant... the chaos and her lack of ever being happy despite navigating her life into situations where we very well could be if she wanted to, just confuses me.

Anyway... I was analyzing this more in my mind this morning and wondering if I needed to defend myself on this, but then thought that maybe it should be left alone at this point. I thought about my desire to quote the sentence above and ask her to clarify her statement and the words "adamant" and "never" and how she concluded that based on what was said. I recognize that my desire to do this is to defend myself, which may just get her riled up again (better left alone?)... what do you guys think?



> [ex-wife] I'm glad we're on the same page. I have concerns about that statement: "adamant that [DD 5yr old] never gets any medicine at your house." Would you mind adding context as to how the girls communicated this to you? It does not jive with reality.


Someone told me that quoting her words is not a good thing to do, as she'd interpret it as invalidating her point (which even if made up, in her mind is reality)... which she views as an attack


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Thomas0311 said:


> She wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it is also important to figure out exactly why you feel the need to defend yourself in the first place. Keeping in mind exactly who she is, and the possible disorder she has...What is your end goal with engaging her? What are you trying to accomplish? Obviously you are right in the materiel sense in this situation...you gave the meds just as you were supposed to, you were right so from that sense, there is nothing to defend. Now, again, keeping in mind who she is, do you feel a need to be validated as right by her? Do you need her to acknowledge that you were right and she wrong? If so, to what end? Simply being right for the sake of being right? Is she even capable of making that concession? Admitting that you were right, and she was wrong?


----------



## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

You are human, you had a knee jerk reaction and replied too soon. Who of us haven't at one time or another?

In reading your post, before I connected it in my head with your other posts, her email came across as perfect wording for a situation. It sounded just like something *I* would send to my XH if I had a concern. After connecting the dots in your backstory, I totally see why you think what you think. It's only a normal email if your ex handles things in a normal way.

When dealing with a situation like this, agreed...record it and back that thang up. What a shame you don't have at least joint custody...sorry you have to deal with all this! Keep being a great dad. They need you!!


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Spicy said:


> *You are human, you had a knee jerk reaction and replied too soon. Who of us haven't at one time or another?*
> 
> In reading your post, before I connected it in my head with your other posts, her email came across as perfect wording for a situation. It sounded just like something *I* would send to my XH if I had a concern. After connecting the dots in your backstory, I totally see why you think what you think. It's only a normal email if your ex handles things in a normal way.
> 
> When dealing with a situation like this, agreed...record it and back that thang up. What a shame you don't have at least joint custody...sorry you have to deal with all this! Keep being a great dad. They need you!!


And this causes problems when dealing with people who are not, well, human. You will not get a normal human response, and there is always a price to pay for any knee jerk reactions. Total and complete self control at all times is exceedingly important. Especially when it is the mother who has primary custody. The courts and society as a whole are inherently biased towards mothers, they will get the benefit of the doubt, and ones with disorders such as this are masters at manipulating things in their favor, because very few others see the disorder, and they can always hide it long enough to get what they are after...it is imperative to never give them any kind of extra ammunition.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Thomas0311 said:


> That's excellent advice, it would be simple to record a video on my phone and upload it to my Google Drive daily. I can make a game out of it with my daughter as we say what day it is every time she takes her meds. "What's today!? December 21st... is it Tuesday? nope Wednesday!"... Create folders for each year/month. I like that idea


I agree with the recording... it's not hard to do. Perhaps you could get a tripod to put your phone on..I've seen some small ones that could go on the bathroom counter. Then get both of your girls in the video.

The best way to end this nonsense is to CYA to the extreme. And no harsh words. Just the evidence...


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I agree with the recording... it's not hard to do. Perhaps you could get a tripod to put your phone on..I've seen some small ones that could go on the bathroom counter. Then get both of your girls in the video.
> 
> The best way to end this nonsense is to CYA to the extreme. And no harsh words. Just the evidence...


No doubt documenting is a good thing to do in case she moved forward claiming something is actionable...IE...taking him to court over something. The thing is with people like his ex wife...they aren't looking for something actionable. They are looking for any excuse to continue contact in such a way as to further reinforce in their own mind that they are right and the other one is wrong. They look for any situation to demonstrate not only their superiority, but also their humbleness, sacrifice, their martyrdom. Using any gathered evidence against them directly will only reinforce what they are looking for.

As to taking things like this to court oneself, it is unlikely to go anywhere fast, and actually backfire, because as we saw here...the normal reaction to her initial email was that she was being totally reasonable, and he looked like he was over reacting. The courts are almost assuredly going to see it the same way, and then she will have the backing of the courts confirming that she is indeed a victim, has a vindictive ex.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Just looking back through these threads...another thing to remember...the only "accusations" that actually mean anything are ones made before the courts. She can, and will, spout as much crap as she wants, and there will be a tendency to want to defend against the "accusations" to correct them, to set the record straight if you will.

Again, one has to ask themselves what is the intended end game of engaging to defend? You already know that there is nothing you can say or do that will change their mind, so that is never a valid reason to engage...that boils down to engaging simply for the purpose of engaging...which is exactly what they were after in the first place. They run their mouths and spew a lot of complete and utter crap...that unless it comes from a court order, doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

The sole focus needs to be on maintaining the relationship with the kids knowing full well that their mother is going to be filling their heads with crap...in the same, seemingly reasonable and polite way...and there is not much one can do to stop that. The best way to counter that is by being the best dad, showing them through actions a very different picture than their mother is giving them.


----------



## Thomas0311 (Dec 19, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> I think it is also important to figure out exactly why you feel the need to defend yourself in the first place. Keeping in mind exactly who she is, and the possible disorder she has...What is your end goal with engaging her? What are you trying to accomplish? Obviously you are right in the materiel sense in this situation...you gave the meds just as you were supposed to, you were right so from that sense, there is nothing to defend. *Now, again, keeping in mind who she is, do you feel a need to be validated as right by her? Do you need her to acknowledge that you were right and she wrong? If so, to what end? Simply being right for the sake of being right? Is she even capable of making that concession? Admitting that you were right, and she was wrong?*


Thank you, this is incredibly helpful. It seems so obvious when you ask, because my answer to that question is that yes, I want validation, and I know all this sounds ridiculous, but I think writing it out will help me to see just how crazy it is... 

I want her to admit fault, to apologize for abusing my second chance at our marriage, for involving my daughters in her affairs (introducing three of the men to them), and I want her to just recognize all the pain that caused me so we can move forward in the interest of our daughters... more complex then that, I want to be appreciated for every concession I've made, rather than highlighted as a villain for the random outburst that she relishes provoking... I wish I was appreciated for giving her 75% time with the girls on paper with the understanding she wanted me in their lives and would move it to 50/50 later when they started school, for believing her that she needed spousal support to stay at home and care for them, when really she went and got a job as soon as it was signed, for then extending the spousal support 6 months because she said she was planning to go to school and asked for it to better her situation with finding an apartment for the girls (she stayed at her parents house then and never went to school) for her collecting spousal support for 2.5 years and getting married the day it ended (yes the actual day of her last check she told me she was getting married...) for giving her 60% of everything in the divorce, because I have a good career and know I'll recover.). For giving her the brand new car, and all the furniture, thinking I'd just get new stuff. I know it sounds foolish... but all of that stuff... I feel cheated, abused and taken advantage of. I know they were all my own choices and I take comfort in the fact that I did them all in what I perceived as the interest of my daughters and trying to prevent her from falling on her face and ending up damaging them worse. I was raised in a family where the values in life are doing good by others and eventually it'll pay off.

Recognizing that her apology is unattainable is an important step towards stopping the cycle of needing anything from her... and engaging further than I need to in these exchanges. I think that is the only reason I would bring this back up. It's an attempt to get her to back down from her false allegation, to admit "yeah, sorry I made that up."... but she's not going to do that. So what this highlights is how unproductive it is to even go down that road. 

My goal... is to get past this.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Thomas0311 said:


> Thank you, this is incredibly helpful. It seems so obvious when you ask, because my answer to that question is that yes, I want validation, and I know all this sounds ridiculous, but I think writing it out will help me to see just how crazy it is...
> 
> I want her to admit fault, to apologize for abusing my second chance at our marriage, for involving my daughters in her affairs (introducing three of the men to them), and I want her to just recognize all the pain that caused me so we can move forward in the interest of our daughters... more complex then that, I want to be appreciated for every concession I've made, rather than highlighted as a villain for the random outburst that she relishes provoking... I wish I was appreciated for giving her 75% time with the girls on paper with the understanding she wanted me in their lives and would move it to 50/50 later when they started school, for believing her that she needed spousal support to stay at home and care for them, when really she went and got a job as soon as it was signed, for then extending the spousal support 6 months because she said she was planning to go to school and asked for it to better her situation with finding an apartment for the girls (she stayed at her parents house then and never went to school) for her collecting spousal support for 2.5 years and getting married the day it ended (yes the actual day of her last check she told me she was getting married...) for giving her 60% of everything in the divorce, because I have a good career and know I'll recover.). For giving her the brand new car, and all the furniture, thinking I'd just get new stuff. I know it sounds foolish... but all of that stuff... I feel cheated, abused and taken advantage of. I know they were all my own choices and I take comfort in the fact that I did them all in what I perceived as the interest of my daughters and trying to prevent her from falling on her face and ending up damaging them worse. I was raised in a family where the values in life are doing good by others and eventually it'll pay off.
> 
> ...


An even more important step is in realizing that you do not need her apology, or her validation. You already know the truth, and anybody who values you does too. It's time you start believing it within yourself. Besides...is she really the type of person you want validation from anyway?


----------



## Thomas0311 (Dec 19, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> An even more important step is in realizing that you do not need her apology, or her validation. You already know the truth, and anybody who values you does too. It's time you start believing it within yourself. Besides...is she really the type of person you want validation from anyway?


You're absolutely right. I need to remind myself of this. My mother said that eventually I'll develop the confidence to understand what a great father I am, and won't feel the need to defend that to people based on what she's up to at the time. It just shows. I believe she was speaking to the same point.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Not sure if this should make you feel better...the whole misery loves company thing...or terrify you that I am five years post divorce, but here is a text convo with my ex from just yesterday...brief background first though...she gets our youngest on Christmas Day. I get him on Christmas Eve. She has him participating in multiple time demanding activities, and I have not had a complete uninterrupted visitation with him in over six months. Many forgone all together. She has primary physical custody, and I get every other weekend, and the infamous generous visitation when mutually agreed upon... He is 14.

ME: We are planning on going to my parents on Saturday, but would like for <son> to come here to do Christmas beforehand. His stepsister is coming here through <their town> Thursday afternoon. Would it be alright if she picked him up then, and we bring him back Saturday evening?

Her: We talked this morning. We've decided to keep our plans. With me working all the time, and him either away with friends(because I'm the one saccrifices my weekends for friends) or competing, we don't get much time to spend together just hanging out. And I don't want to disappoint others who were going. I know I've mentioned it before but maybe a bit more heads up would work. We've decided to keep the plans we had previously made.

Me: I lose a lot of my very limited time. When can I get him?

Her: He's a teenager. I can either let you know when we are done with the event and you can grab him on Friday (that's still early) or your time on Saturday.

Me: When can I get him on Friday.

Her: I don't know. He is sick.


----------



## Thomas0311 (Dec 19, 2016)

Ugh, I'm all too familiar with those kinds of exchanges. The words, deflection and lack of accountability. I think in a way, she trained me in our marriage, o not expect an answer to a direct question. In fact, simple direct question (when given to her one on one) always lead to either tears, or avoidance. 

I remember telling her one time when our first born was about a year old "I'd like for us to all spend more time together."... she said "what do you mean?" I said "When I get home, the three of us - a walk, or games or something. Don't you think it would be fun?" she said "it's difficult being a stay at home mom." so I said "I didn't say it wasn't" then she said "well why are you always putting me down?" ...

Then we start talking at length about her troubles... and I'm left feeling like a bad father, for asking that we all spend more time together. Over time it wears you down to the point that you just start to do what she wants, and avoid asking questions all together.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

And the building of the martyr and victim complex. The things is though, with people like this, their reality changes moment by moment, and there is no building up any pools of good will, or favors to turn in, such as you giving up some time for her to do something special in expectation of her doing the same. While she might, and it's a big might, give up her time in the future, it will be her making some grand sacrifice with an expectation on HER end that you reciprocate, but remembering that you had done the same earlier will not even enter her mind, because in her reality...it never happened.


----------

