# Physical intimacies



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hey guys, I have a dilemma. I'd gotten back to online dating in the last couple months, and met someone pretty cool. We've been out a handful of times, and I really enjoy being around him. We're into many of the same things, and have many of the same wants and goals in life, and are just very similar people. He's a pet-lover like me (I have 2 dogs; he has 2 cats). The only thing that he does that I could do without is that he smokes cigars, but really, with so many other things being on-point, this is something that I can overlook.

So, this weekend, we had Saturday all-day plans, that I looked forward to for days. He came to my place to hang out and meet my dogs, then we went to his place where I met his cats and he cooked me supper (I took care of dessert and cat treats). Really good time; he's easy to talk to and be around, and I genuinely can see myself hanging out with him for the long-term.

Here's the thing: the physical intimacies aren't very enjoyable, and he seems fairly inexperienced. He kisses by placing his tongue in my mouth and moving it around; I end up with a really wet face. I did mention that he's quite tongue-heavy, which he changed up, but ended up just pursing his lips and not moving. We did have sex this weekend, and it also wasn't very good. To say that I'm beyond disappointed would be an understatement, as I know from being with my ex-husband that things like this don't typically improve, and when the chemistry isn't there, other things tend to go downhill too. So my question: is there any way that I can approach this with him to see when his last sexual relationship was, or to see if this can be worked on and improved? How does a person approach this without sounding like a horrible person?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Ursula said:


> So, this weekend, we had Saturday all-day plans, that I looked forward to for days. He came to my place to hang out and meet my dogs, then we went to his place where I met his cats...


So how does he invite you: would you like to come over to see my p8ssy?




Ursula said:


> Here's the thing: the physical intimacies aren't very enjoyable, and he seems fairly inexperienced. He kisses by placing his tongue in my mouth and moving it around; I end up with a really wet face.


It's possible he is one of those lizard-people that apparently live among us: 




It might improve...if you really like him you can try a couple more times otherwise maybe find someone else. The thing that doesn't tend to improve is not so much quality of sex (I was really **** at it too, I am sure, at one time) but desire for sex. As long as he's keen and willing to learn, you might have a shot at this. But if you don't find him attractive, don't waste time.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

yah, i would also say that there is probably not going to be much improvement. possible but not likely. 
sex, making out, and intimacy i think are kind of a natural thing. if it isn't there, it isn't there. 
also, assuming you and him are over 30, we're pretty set in our ways by that time.

how do you approach him? well, there isn't really anyway to sneak it on him. just tell him.
in one case in my life, I was with a girlfriend who liked 'big mouth' wide open, big wet kissing.
i moved on to a girlfriend who hated that, and she told me. " i hate big mouth" because her abusive ex husband was into it.
i adjusted my kissing to small mouth with gentle tongue action and all was good from thereon forward.
and sex is even more harder to learn/unlearn.

i agree with imp: see him a few more times and then if not much improvement move on.
intimacy is important and bad intimacy is not worth sticking around for.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

One of my favorite lovers started out as a terrible kisser. She was down my throat like a roto-rooter on steroids! lol But I got her to change, and now she does what I like - and vice versa. It's sometimes a compromise, of course.

However, you can tell him that everyone is different, especially women when it comes to intimacy, and what may have worked for his previous partners doesn't necessarily work for you. So, if he wants to be a good lover - for YOU - then he needs to learn what you like, and you will learn what he likes. Then pick a topic to focus on each time, and coach him through. You can say what you don't like, and what you do, and demonstrate - he just needs to slowly respond to what your're doing, and then try it himself


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

In my experience, if a man is a crappy kisser, he is crappy at the other stuff too. If a man cant kiss well, for me personally, it makes him an immediate NO. This is kind of a delicate subject to approach, if you are feeling like this wont work out, you can just tell him that without going into specific detail. He's a good guy, but youre not feeling any connection/chemistry/etc....


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

You approach it either by being honest and open and seeing if it is something that you can both work through...or, you end things with him. I'd vote for the latter, not that my vote counts for anything.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

If you are not in a hurry, why be in a hurry?

Work with him.

This will take a bit of effort on your' part. Make sure he is worth it.
I dislike putting these thoughts in those unkind words.

Everyone has worth. He just may not be the one for you.
From reading your' posts physical touch is very important to you.

Since your divorce you have sampled enough men and now know what is good and bad love making.
Some of your new men may not have that 'luxury'.

Which may be a plus. He is not yet corrupted.

A very experienced man may turn you on, curl your toes, but, he in turn may grade you harshly.

Finding the perfect man is a slippery slope. 
May be, maybe not, having a lonely, final destination.

Then again, the journey could be worth it.

................................................................................................

If you are not exclusive and you are up to dating other men, do so.
Do so while you trying to fix him.

Or not.

You have time. 
Your equipment will not rust or wear out if you give it a try or give it a rest.

Life ain't easy, but can be fun.
Enjoy yourself, but not at anyone else's expense.

Your' call.



[THRD]


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> In my experience, if a man is a crappy kisser, he is crappy at the other stuff too. If a man cant kiss well, for me personally, it makes him an immediate NO. This is kind of a delicate subject to approach, if you are feeling like this wont work out, you can just tell him that without going into specific detail. He's a good guy, but youre not feeling any connection/chemistry/etc....


yes, i agree. i personally believe lovemaking is more natural than learned. 
but that isn't to say adjustments can't be made or tried. 
and i'm sure there are cases of huge turn-around.

but not often IMHO.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I think this can be improved. Depends on the people. 

"I like to kiss like this." "It drives me crazy when you touch me like this." "Let's slow down and....." 

I knew someone once who said she never had bad sex because she taught her guys what she liked, wanted, needed. Most men wanted to please and she made it worth their effort, if they were basically compatible. Today there are good books and videos that you can watch or read together and discuss too.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Ursula said:


> So my question: is there any way that I can approach this with him to see when his last sexual relationship was, or to see if this can be worked on and improved? How does a person approach this without sounding like a horrible person?


In my opinion just straight up tell him that he is bad at knowing how to be intimate with you, but that you are willing to help show him what works. You can perhaps expect him to do the same when it comes to what he wants, but in the event he does not really does not know how to show you what he wants or likes... then it may indeed be a lost cause. 

The key thing would be feeling comfortable talking about sex with him once you begin the conversation along with a sense that he feel comfortable as well. If instead it feels like pulling teeth or really awkward like helping clip your grandma's one-inch thick toenails with a dull fingernail clipper.... then it is a lost cause. If you can speak easily and comfortably with him on the topic of sexuality, then be patient with him. Intimacy after all is about communication, so at least you are cooking with one good ingredient while you work on tenderizing the meat!  

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Do you think he *wants* to be a good lover? If he has a legitimate desire to please, I think everything can be fixed. I'd suggest a basic approach of telling him what you enjoy, as opposed suggesting what he is doing is "wrong".


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Ursula said:


> Hey guys, I have a dilemma. I'd gotten back to online dating in the last couple months, and met someone pretty cool. We've been out a handful of times, and I really enjoy being around him. We're into many of the same things, and have many of the same wants and goals in life, and are just very similar people. He's a pet-lover like me (I have 2 dogs; he has 2 cats). The only thing that he does that I could do without is that he smokes cigars, but really, with so many other things being on-point, this is something that I can overlook.
> 
> So, this weekend, we had Saturday all-day plans, that I looked forward to for days. He came to my place to hang out and meet my dogs, then we went to his place where I met his cats and he cooked me supper (I took care of dessert and cat treats). Really good time; he's easy to talk to and be around, and I genuinely can see myself hanging out with him for the long-term.
> 
> Here's the thing: the physical intimacies aren't very enjoyable, and he seems fairly inexperienced. He kisses by placing his tongue in my mouth and moving it around; I end up with a really wet face. I did mention that he's quite tongue-heavy, which he changed up, but ended up just pursing his lips and not moving. We did have sex this weekend, and it also wasn't very good. To say that I'm beyond disappointed would be an understatement, as I know from being with my ex-husband that things like this don't typically improve, and when the chemistry isn't there, other things tend to go downhill too. So my question: is there any way that I can approach this with him to see when his last sexual relationship was, or to see if this can be worked on and improved? How does a person approach this without sounding like a horrible person?


Listen, you want the truth right? 

If you do not think you have it in you to really talk to him about likes dislikes, kissing to intercourse... and you don't think you can train him and make him a serviceable lover, then please cut him loose. 

Now if you can, or you want to try, then go for it, but you have to be honest about everything. 

You could try and see what happens, but don't string him along if it is not going to work, people like that get really hurt at a level some of us do not understand.

It is kinder to end it and move on if it is not going to work...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

If a man can keep an erection for long enough then he can be taught to be good in bed.If he finds a woman kind enough or desperate enough to teach him that is.
Problem is when he improves his act he will more than likely move on to someone else.
But @Ursula where are you finding these guys?
If it’s not one thing it’s another.
Do some of these men see you as a candidate for a co-dependent relationship.If this is the case you need to disabuse them of these ideas pronto.
And you need to work on your picker.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> If a man can keep an erection for long enough then he can be taught to be good in bed.If he finds a woman kind enough or desperate enough to teach him that is.
> Problem is when he improves his act he will more than likely move on to someone else.
> But @Ursula where are you finding these guys?
> If it’s not one thing it’s another.
> ...


I have to tell you that this seems to be a common complaint among women these days. Guys that have no idea what they are doing. 

Some of them have been in long term marriages which just blows my mind, and makes me feel sorry for their wives.

Compared to some of the people out there, even at my age, because I am not stupid, and have always been willing to learn about sex, I seem to have actually invented sex according to past partners.

As ridiculous as that sounds, I have been told that. Now, I am above average in bed, but there is no way that I am that good. The rest of the people have to be really bad and clueless...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> I have to tell you that this seems to be a common complaint among women these days. Guys that have no idea what they are doing.
> 
> Some of them have been in long term marriages which just blows my mind, and makes me feel sorry for their wives.
> 
> ...


This I can well believe.^^^^
In every other part of your life,when it comes to something that you do regularly whether it be climbing mountains or throwing darts in a bar, the more you practice the better you get.
But with some men they see sex as a destination not a journey.Wham bam thank you ma’am.
I’m not claiming to be Casonova here but I know what makes women happy in bed and I’ve been doing it since I was a teenager.I read about men claiming that their wives or girlfriends can’t orgasm with regular intercourse,they either need toys or masturbation to get themselves off.
I would see that as a challenge.My soon to be wife (four weeks and counting) told me before we had sex for the first time that she had never had an orgasm and actually didn’t believe they were real.
I quickly put paid to her doubts.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Thanks guys!
@inmyprime, I do really dig him, but yeah, that's one thing that I don't want to happen again: my desire to go way down. I want to want my partner. And, I do find him attractive!
@jorgegene, we're both 40, and thanks for the example from your own life; it's good to know that some folks are into adjusting. 
@Married but Happy, thanks and yeah, that sounds like the right way to go about mentioning it to him. 
@3Xnocharm, that might be where we end up for sure; I guess a couple more times will tell. And I agree that lovemaking is more of a natural thing. 
@Bananapeel, of course your vote counts!
@SunCMars, no, I'm not in a hurry, but intimacy is something that needs to jive in my opinion. My ex-husband was very inexperienced when I met him, and I spent a few years trying to teach him with not much change happening. It was probably the catalyst that kicked off the downward spiral of our marriage, and I don't want that to happen again. Physical touch is my second love language, and his first love language. Everything that you say is pretty much spot-on and are the things that have been running through my head since the weekend.
@sunsetmist, good points, thanks!
@badsanta, I'm honestly not sure if we can talk about this yet or not, but I guess we'll see fairly quickly! I'm definitely not going to tell him he's bad at intimacy, as that could crush someone, but will be talking to him about it. Conversation seems to flow really well between us, so I'm hopeful.
@uhtred, that's more or less what I was thinking. And I'm sure that he, along with everyone else wants to be a good lover. 
@BluesPower, I agree, and this is where I'm leery. It's a fine line between finding out if things can work and leading him on. I certainly don't want to do that. And in response to your last post, I will say that yes, women want someone who knows what they're doing in bed. I don't need someone with loads of experience, but I also know from experience that teaching someone is hard. Now, my ex-hubs was a special case because he assumed he was right all the time, so that made it harder to get him to see things from a different perspective. I've met men from both ends of the spectrum, but the thing with this particular one is that he's nice, he's attractive to me, we have a lot in common and he's easy to be around. I like him quite a bit, but would like him even more if we can get this chemistry thing happening too.
@Andy1001, I'd hope that he has enough character to stay if things are going well, and both parties are happy, rather than become a great lover, then bolt. Back in December, I was on Match.com; now I'm on Bumble. When I contact men, I always read their profile first, and if I see a person that I can relate to there, I look at their photos. If I find them attractive, I'll contact them, if not then I don't contact them. I try to choose strength of character above physical attributes, although one does need to be attracted to their partner. However, what one person finds attractive, the next may not, so it's all relative. And yes it does seem that if it's not one thing, it's another, and I attribute that to being in an older selection pool. Regarding your last post, it's crazy what people think sometimes, and like your soon to be wife, I had my first orgasm with a man about a month ago. I had given up hope that it would ever happen and was really surprised when it did. So was he when I told him that it was a first! I'll be seeing him Wednesday, and he's also a pretty fantastic man, although he has a very different lifestyle from the one from the weekend. By the way, a big congratulations to you and your soon to be wife!!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Ursula said:


> @badsanta, I'm honestly not sure if we can talk about this yet or not, but I guess we'll see fairly quickly! I'm definitely not going to tell him he's bad at intimacy, as that could crush someone, but will be talking to him about it. Conversation seems to flow really well between us, so I'm hopeful.


Yes indeed the male ego is a rather fragile thing, but sometimes you just have to be willing to hurt something in order to fix it. Think of it as if setting a broken leg. As long as you are doing it with loving intentions. 

What you are dealing with is women before you being afraid to hurt his ego, and this is what has been created out of that. A common male fantasy is an experienced woman that know what she wants and is willing to show her man how to give it to her. As long as you can be really confident about it, you might be able to mend his skills as a lover. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ursula said:


> Hey guys, I have a dilemma. I'd gotten back to online dating in the last couple months, and met someone pretty cool. We've been out a handful of times, and I really enjoy being around him. We're into many of the same things, and have many of the same wants and goals in life, and are just very similar people. He's a pet-lover like me (I have 2 dogs; he has 2 cats). The only thing that he does that I could do without is that he smokes cigars, but really, with so many other things being on-point, this is something that I can overlook.
> 
> So, this weekend, we had Saturday all-day plans, that I looked forward to for days. He came to my place to hang out and meet my dogs, then we went to his place where I met his cats and he cooked me supper (I took care of dessert and cat treats). Really good time; he's easy to talk to and be around, and I genuinely can see myself hanging out with him for the long-term.
> 
> Here's the thing: the physical intimacies aren't very enjoyable, and he seems fairly inexperienced. He kisses by placing his tongue in my mouth and moving it around; I end up with a really wet face. I did mention that he's quite tongue-heavy, which he changed up, but ended up just pursing his lips and not moving. We did have sex this weekend, and it also wasn't very good. To say that I'm beyond disappointed would be an understatement, as I know from being with my ex-husband that things like this don't typically improve, and when the chemistry isn't there, other things tend to go downhill too. So my question: is there any way that I can approach this with him to see when his last sexual relationship was, or to see if this can be worked on and improved? How does a person approach this without sounding like a horrible person?


Ursula, I would say give it a few times, he could have been really nervous and or over anxious if it had been a while for him. So he might settle down and get better. If after 3-4 times nothing improves then you will have a better sampling to discuss with him, maybe some things that you can point to as positives. The sandwich technique will be useful in this situation, start with the positive point out the negative, then finish with more positive. 

But in the long run how many things can you overlook before you're just setting yourself up for future unhappiness. The cigar smoking would be enough to send me packing.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sadly not everyone does, some people really are just selfish lovers. But if *he* does, then that is a very positive thing. 



Ursula said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> snip
> 
> ...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> This I can well believe.^^^^
> In every other part of your life,when it comes to something that you do regularly whether it be climbing mountains or throwing darts in a bar, the more you practice the better you get.
> But with some men they see sex as a destination not a journey.Wham bam thank you ma’am.
> I’m not claiming to be Casonova here but I know what makes women happy in bed and I’ve been doing it since I was a teenager.I read about men claiming that their wives or girlfriends can’t orgasm with regular intercourse,they either need toys or masturbation to get themselves off.
> ...


Then you completely understand. And you are right, if you value sex in your life, you get good at it. 

My GF told me about some of her husbands and a couple of other guys that she knew. I had heard this, I guess I was aware to an extent, but one of her friends backed her up about the same guy. So, I guess I have to believe them. 

And I have had, what I consider, some strange reactions. On girl I was with for a while kept muttering "I never knew". I was not doing anything special at the time, really standard fair, over all. 

That is maybe why I have a hard time understanding some of these threads. 

Like I said, I know I am better than average, maybe, but when you get with a girl that has not experienced any good sex to speak of, I don't know, it make me feel a little embarrassed. 

My GF is almost like yours, she never really understood what multiple orgasms were until we go together. 

I mean there has to be some books of something that these guys could read, right?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I dated a lady not that long ago who was a really good person and we had a lot in common. But in bed we didn't click during intercourse. The rest of bedtime activities were (from my point of view anyhow) great, but when it came to doing the deed we were just not in sync. Literally, we were on different wavelengths.

And I am not at all confident about my kissing, so this thread is a bit anxiety provoking! My xw had a thing against kissing which I didn't know was due to her CSA until after decades of marriage. I ended up with very low confidence in my kissing abilities after all those years of her reacting to any attempt at kissing her. Anyhow, this recent girlfriend may have sensed my anxiousness about kissing and not enjoyed it.

So the points are that it is worth giving it some time and even having a non-blaming discussion in the not too distant future. It could be you two just need to work through it a bit. But it could also be that you two are just on different wavelengths as it were when it comes to sex. Maybe you or he aren't bad in bed, you're just not good together.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Run, don't walk. It is unfortunate, but there is no way you'll be happy if you put more time into this.

I'm sorry for this guy, but there WILL be another guy who the sex is good with the first time and every time. Sadly, it sometimes requires kissing a few frogs to find him.

Don't lead him on, just muster up the courage to say it. The truth is ok, just be very gentle with it, and realize that he most likely will be saying you should "give him another chance" or "give it more time to fall into sync". But it just doesn't work that way. If a partner is no good (with you) it just isn't going to change. There is a difference between first time awkwardness, and first time "it just sucked".


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@Ursula There is kind of a simple formula here - Techniques and planes of movement can be taught. Chemistry, compatibility and animal attraction cannot. 

The question you need to ask yourself is if he has a technique problem and isn't moving right or touching the right spots for you? 

Or it is the basic animal chemistry and compatibility that is missing. 

I once worked with a gal that give mediocre BJs and HJs and within a few sessions she was better than any porn star out there and one time she gave me a HJ and I orgasmed so hard I almost dislocated my shoulder (don't ask me how, it was just as much of a shock to me LOL)

But we had amazing chemistry and she would have crawled through rusty nails and broken glass to please me. 

I have been with others who probably had spot-on technique but the chemistry and rhythm and basic "X-Factor" just wasn't there and they were probably as disappointed as me. 


So you have to do a little analysis of your own and ask yourself if he just needs to work on a motor-skill to please you, or if it is a chemistry and compatibility issue.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

When the student is ready the master will appear.......the question is a 40 year student ready to learn that he spent at least 20 years of his life as a sucky lover....who does not even know how to kiss properly ....something basic let alone sexual moves that increase momentum and heighten pleasure in the other....that is a very tall order Ursula...do you have the patience, the words, the understanding that he will mostly default to bad technique before he learns the right way....and that is assuming he's open minded to do so.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I've trained (and released back into the wild) more than one bad/mediocre lover over the years. There are definitely some women out there who owe me a big thank you. 

I remember when I turned 45 I decided school was *out* and I was tired of teaching grown men how to please a woman and wasn't going to do it anymore. But alas, the world is so full of these clueless guys - at ALL ages - that it was impossible to stick to my plan and I ended up having to teach a few more over the next 10 years. 

Truth is, there's a 50/50 chance you'll just have to train the next guy anyway, so you might as well see if *this* one is trainable, first.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Here's something to keep in mind. Different lovers like different things. 

My current wife loves to have my tongue rammed into her mouth as we're having sex. it took me awhile to figure that out because no previous girlfriend, nor my ex-wife, enjoyed that.

Additionally, my ex-wife liked things slow. My current wife likes urgency.

So, if everything else is on point, I would try coaching him just a little bit. Don't be passive about telling him what you like in bed. Firmly tell him. Then give him the opportunity to meet those needs.

How he responds will give you your answer.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I mean there has to be some books of something that these guys could read, right?


At my high school there was a book in the library called "The Bible" that explained everything in detail to all us boys. My older brother Tom told me about this when he was away at college. Very helpful indeed.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Here's something to keep in mind. Different lovers like different things.
> 
> My current wife loves to have my tongue rammed into her mouth as we're having sex. it took me awhile to figure that out because no previous girlfriend, nor my ex-wife, enjoyed that.
> 
> ...


The thing is @farsidejunky, for guys like she is describing, you are actually talking at a level that he may not even understand. 

This is the issue, I don't think that guys, and some women, who know something, can relate to people that don't know anything...


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@badsanta, I never thought of it like that before: I'm dealing with the women who came before me who were scared to speak up. Good thought to keep in mind.
@happyhusband0005, okay, here's the thing, when we got together on Saturday, we had sex 3x during the afternoon/evening. The last time, he popped out of me, but kept on going, not realizing that he was no longer inside until I said something. So yeah, that's not really promising, and I'm not sure if I should talk to him, or just cut him loose. We're making plans for Friday night, and I'm excited to see him, just nervous about knowing what to do and how to do it.
@BluesPower, yes definitely believe those women. I know I'm not in the minority with this, and like your fiancé, I didn't believe that women CAN actually orgasm with a man; I thought it was all talk until about a month ago. I guess your fiancé is lucky to have found someone to please her in more ways than one!
@Thor, I'm sorry to have made you a bit anxious with my thread! What does CSA stand for? And yeah, we may just be on 2 separate wavelengths when it comes to intimacies, and that's okay. It's just a fine line to walk on to find out vs lead him on, which I don't want to do.
@Faithful Wife, I'm kind of tempted to, and I do have someone else that I'm really interested in (who is fantastic in bed; he's the only man who's made me orgasm). These men are vastly different. Man #1 has no kids, never been married, has a great career, wants a family, is really easy to talk to and be around. I feel really comfortable around him. Man #2 has an ex-wife who he lives next door to, 2 small children (which is awesome), he's also really easy to be around and is really easy-going. We have a lot in common, and the only thing that might be a concern in the future is our different cultures (the rest of his family lives in Lebanon; he's been in Canada for about 15 years now though).
@oldshirt, you're right, techniques and movement can be taught, but chemistry, compatibility and animal attraction cannot. With him, I believe that it's all technique and movement. We actually have great chemistry in the grand scheme of things, and are highly compatible. I do find him attractive and really like being around him.
@Lostinthought61, yeah that IS the question! And, I'm not sure if I have the patience for that, again. The thing with my ex-husband is that he thought he could do no wrong, so hearing another perspective from me (who wasn't nearly as educated as he was) wasn't something he could do easily. This guy seems different, I think. But yeah, 20 years is a lot to undo… 
@She'sStillGotIt, I've run across my fair share of these men too, but recently have been fairly pleased with others. Part of me wants to just cut him loose, and part of me says it's worth it to stick around for a short while just to see if this could work. You're right, a good many of them need some work… 
@farsidejunky, good points, and that would be a great way to bring this up with him: that different lovers like different things, and that what may have worked for him in the past, may not work currently.
@BigDigg, was it a bible on coupling up, or was it the actual Bible that one would find in a church? If it's the latter, I'm not sure how that would help someone with intimate knowledge.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ursula said:


> @
> 
> [MENTION=327114]happyhusband0005, okay, here's the thing, when we got together on Saturday, we had sex 3x during the afternoon/evening. The last time, he popped out of me, but kept on going, not realizing that he was no longer inside until I said something. So yeah, that's not really promising, and I'm not sure if I should talk to him, or just cut him loose. We're making plans for Friday night, and I'm excited to see him, just nervous about knowing what to do and how to do it.


Oh Boy, no not promising at all. I would say if there is no improvement at all by this next time, you cut him loose.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ursula said:


> @happyhusband0005, okay, here's the thing, when we got together on Saturday, we had sex 3x during the afternoon/evening. *The last time, he popped out of me, but kept on going, not realizing that he was no longer inside until I said something.* So yeah, that's not really promising, and I'm not sure if I should talk to him, or just cut him loose. We're making plans for Friday night, and I'm excited to see him, just nervous about knowing what to do and how to do it.
> 
> @Faithful Wife, I'm kind of tempted to, and I do have someone else that I'm really interested in (who is fantastic in bed; he's the only man who's made me orgasm). These men are vastly different. Man #1 has no kids, never been married, has a great career, wants a family, is really easy to talk to and be around. I feel really comfortable around him. Man #2 has an ex-wife who he lives next door to, 2 small children (which is awesome), he's also really easy to be around and is really easy-going. We have a lot in common, and the only thing that might be a concern in the future is our different cultures (the rest of his family lives in Lebanon; he's been in Canada for about 15 years now though).


To the bolded, perhaps some brave men here could explain this phenomenon. I have had similar incidents (not really popping out but going totally soft to the extent it cannot penetrate, but continuing to move as if penetration is happening). How can it be that the guy does not feel this is happening (or rather, not happening)?

Your response to me...I'm confused, which man is the one who sucks in bed, #1 or #2? Which ever one it is, I still don't think it is going to be worth it in the long run, sorry! You want it to be hot and AMAZING from the very start. It really doesn't go from luke warm to scorching hot.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> To the bolded, perhaps some brave men here could explain this phenomenon. I have had similar incidents (not really popping out but going totally soft to the extent it cannot penetrate, but continuing to move as if penetration is happening). How can it be that the guy does not feel this is happening (or rather, not happening)?
> 
> Your response to me...I'm confused, which man is the one who sucks in bed, #1 or #2? Which ever one it is, I still don't think it is going to be worth it in the long run, sorry! You want it to be hot and AMAZING from the very start. It really doesn't go from luke warm to scorching hot.


It was Man #1 who wasn't fantastic in bed.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> To the bolded, perhaps some brave men here could explain this phenomenon. I have had similar incidents (not really popping out but going totally soft to the extent it cannot penetrate, but continuing to move as if penetration is happening). How can it be that the guy does not feel this is happening (or rather, not happening)?
> 
> Your response to me...I'm confused, which man is the one who sucks in bed, #1 or #2? Which ever one it is, I still don't think it is going to be worth it in the long run, sorry! You want it to be hot and AMAZING from the very start. It really doesn't go from luke warm to scorching hot.


I have no explanation for this. If I had to guess I would have to say inexperience??? 

I don't get it. I don't understand how some men don't want sex, or how some men who have been married don't understand anything about sex, their poor wives. 

I don't understand any of it frankly, I guess those girls were not blowing smoke. But I don't really think I am all that special. I understand the basics of how a woman's body works, I understand how to stimulate those areas depending on what type of girl she is. 

Frankly, it all seems really simple to me. Maybe it is not???


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> To the bolded, perhaps some brave men here could explain this phenomenon. I have had similar incidents (not really popping out but going totally soft to the extent it cannot penetrate, but continuing to move as if penetration is happening). How can it be that the guy does not feel this is happening (or rather, not happening)?
> 
> Your response to me...I'm confused, which man is the one who sucks in bed, #1 or #2? Which ever one it is, I still don't think it is going to be worth it in the long run, sorry! You want it to be hot and AMAZING from the very start. It really doesn't go from luke warm to scorching hot.


Tell your partner he’s not working a jackhammer and to slow down and shorten his strokes,tell him you prefer grinding to thrusting.
Also go easy on the lube,especially if you are inclined to get very wet during intercourse.
This may be totally alien to you self confident,independent women of tam lol but maybe for the first few times just lie back and let him take charge.Or if you like being on top tell him to relax and you will do all the work.
If that doesn’t work then I got nothing.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> Tell your partner he’s not working a jackhammer and to slow down and shorten his strokes,tell him you prefer grinding to thrusting.
> Also go easy on the lube,especially if you are inclined to get very wet during intercourse.
> This may be totally alien to you self confident,independent women of tam lol but maybe for the first few times just lie back and let him take charge.Or if you like being on top tell him to relax and you will do all the work.
> If that doesn’t work then I got nothing.


Andy, that still doesn't address why these men don't realize that their penis is not in play. My guess is that they are concentrating on their performance and hoping the woman doesn't notice. Kinda like 'ok, thirty more strokes should get her there'. lol


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> > Tell your partner he’s not working a jackhammer and to slow down and shorten his strokes,tell him you prefer grinding to thrusting.
> ...


I have a couple of theories! 1. He's gone desensitized and truly is in an absolute unaware zone or 2. He knows he's going soft and thinks if he fakes it for a little bit it'll get hard again.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Ursula said:


> Okay, here's the thing, when we got together on Saturday, we had sex 3x during the afternoon/evening. The last time, *he popped out of me, but kept on going, not realizing that he was no longer inside until I said something*. So yeah, that's not really promising, and I'm not sure if I should talk to him, or just cut him loose. We're making plans for Friday night, and I'm excited to see him, just nervous about knowing what to do and how to do it.


Uh, I'm not even sure what to say about that. Highly questionable to me.



Ursula said:


> I'm kind of tempted to, and I do have someone else that I'm really interested in (who is fantastic in bed; *he's the only man who's made me orgasm*). These men are vastly different. Man #1 has no kids, never been married, has a great career, wants a family, is really easy to talk to and be around. I feel really comfortable around him. Man #2 has an ex-wife who he lives next door to, 2 small children (which is awesome), he's also really easy to be around and is really easy-going. We have a lot in common, and the only thing that might be a concern in the future is our different cultures (the rest of his family lives in Lebanon; he's been in Canada for about 15 years now though).


Orgasm period? Or orgasm through intercourse? If it's the former, then he sounds like the better bet. You're going to appreciate orgasms in the years to come.




Faithful Wife said:


> To the bolded, perhaps some brave men here could explain this phenomenon. I have had similar incidents (not really popping out but going totally soft to the extent it cannot penetrate, but continuing to move as if penetration is happening). How can it be that the guy does not feel this is happening (or rather, not happening)?


Lol, I am likewise confused by this. Ursula's popping out situation I don't get at all. But with the going soft, I can only guess that it's an embarrassment issue? They hope that if they keep thrusting you won't notice they've turned into spaghetti.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Ursula, 



> Here's the thing: the physical intimacies aren't very enjoyable, and he seems fairly inexperienced. ... So my question: is there any way that I can approach this with him to see when his last sexual relationship was, or to see if this can be worked on and improved? How does a person approach this without sounding like a horrible person?


You know what's funny? This has been kind of bothering me all day. Now, on the one hand, I do find it mildly amusing to sit back and objectively be in the peanut gallery of your dating life. My goodness, it sure is interesting! On the other hand, this issue and this question are fairly important, and thus worthy of so much more than objective popcorn eating. 

As you know, I'm 56yo so I'm no spring chicken. Yet, I haven't been with a ton of men--and those I've been with, I tend to marry! LOL  My point being that to some people I might be "inexperienced" because I can count my lovers on one hand; to other people, the fact I've had 2 marriages is more experience than they care to take on! To some men, I may not have great technique because got to know my husbands and I didn't have the skill of bunches and bunches of different variety; to other men, I may be a crazy good lover just because I like it, I'm into it, and I'm willing to pretty much try anything. To some, what turns me on might be boring not be interesting to them; to others, what turns me on could be entirely outside the realm of their little whitebread world. To a vanilla guy who's only had one wife, I bet I'd be a sex goddess; to a guy who's been a swinger and enjoys a little DS, I'd be an inexperienced child. 

So, here's the way I see it: look at the person. Is that person someone of quality? Does that person have the kind of characteristics and traits you want in a partner? Does that person act and behave in a way that is compatible with you and what you need? Are you compatible with them and what they need? If the answers to these kinds of questions are "Yes" then figuring out sex is just a matter of being patient and open with each other...and that means sharing everything from what works to what doesn't without having egos get in the way. I mean...what if some of the reason he's not that great is because some of what you're doing isn't lighting his fire? 

I used to think that sex was "just natural" and if a guy was interested why the flag would go up the flagpole! LOL Now I know different--that people can be VERY attracted to each other and have deep desire, and yet the mind or inhibitions or even sometimes the body gets in the way. These are things that really can be worked on together if both of you are willing to be rawly honest and tolerant. I suspect if you think someone's going to be a super perfect lover right off the bat AND just know all your buttons and get all theirs pushed automatically by you too that it may be disappointing for you. I think it is entirely possible for people to know the general physiology of the opposite gender but still need some time to "get" you and how the two of you might fit together.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Andy, that still doesn't address why these men don't realize that their penis is not in play. My guess is that they are concentrating on their performance and hoping the woman doesn't notice. Kinda like 'ok, thirty more strokes should get her there'. lol


Wow,Thirty strokes!
He must be some sort of Superman.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > To the bolded, perhaps some brave men here could explain this phenomenon. I have had similar incidents (not really popping out but going totally soft to the extent it cannot penetrate, but continuing to move as if penetration is happening). How can it be that the guy does not feel this is happening (or rather, not happening)?
> ...


Sorry it’s not like that. But thanks for trying.

It’s difficult to explain what I mean. Has only happened a time or two. And not with a new partner. 

I’m thinking back and now realize those might have been times when we were both drinking and he may just have been more drunk than I realized at the time.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

A penis is sensitive but not at all accurate - eg I doubt anyone could read braille with one. (not going to try). 

Things can also get a bit numb after a while. So under some conditions it can be difficult to really feel exactly what is going on. 


Seems surprising to me, but not crazy - especially if he has been drinking. 






Faithful Wife said:


> To the bolded, perhaps some brave men here could explain this phenomenon. I have had similar incidents (not really popping out but going totally soft to the extent it cannot penetrate, but continuing to move as if penetration is happening). How can it be that the guy does not feel this is happening (or rather, not happening)?
> 
> Your response to me...I'm confused, which man is the one who sucks in bed, #1 or #2? Which ever one it is, I still don't think it is going to be worth it in the long run, sorry! You want it to be hot and AMAZING from the very start. It really doesn't go from luke warm to scorching hot.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

uhtred said:


> A penis is sensitive but not at all accurate - eg I doubt anyone could read braille with one. (not going to try).
> 
> Things can also get a bit numb after a while. So under some conditions it can be difficult to really feel exactly what is going on.
> 
> ...


Yes in thinking about this more... like you said, a penis can be inaccurate in what it is “doing” sometimes. I think (imagine) that if it still feels good to him, he will just keep going. In certain circumstances, it may still feel good to him even if he isn’t exactly penetrating (or at least not at full force). This can be confusing to a woman because there’s such a stark difference between being penetrated by something fairly rigid and something not as rigid. We just know the diff immediately. Whereas, if a guy is feeling something pleasurable (easily true for when the penis is not as rigid as when full capacity) and especially if he is also experiencing pleasure emotionally and mentally, he may temporarily not be as focused on what his body or specifically what his penis is feeling. It still feels pleasurable in his groin area generally to be touched or fondled, even if he isn’t erect. So at times during intercourse, especially if it’s the third or fourth round, if he’s been drinking, and if he’s over 45...there’s just a difference in the amount of blood flow sometimes...but during those times it seems that if he is emotionally and mentally engaged, he can experience something very similar to full erection penetration at times when that is not actually happening.

Every time this has happened to me, there has been a very high level of intimacy and openness....but also a high level of drinking. Within safe, loving relationships where if we were both drinking, it was no biggie as we were not driving and didn’t have to get up early. Just a once in awhile weekend thing. The times this has happened, I also recall on the same weekend or around the night or two before that, we had had lots and lots of sex, probably over extending his body in a short period of time.

Just following up on my own question with some stuff I thought of later...thanks to all who offered opinions, Uhtred and several others.

Not sure if Ursula can use this info for anything, sorry if threadjack! 🙂


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Sorry for another long reply; I find it more effective to hit everyone all at once rather than separately.
@BluesPower, I'm leaning towards inexperience as well. My ex-husband was actually one of those men. He was 2 months shy of his 42nd birthday when he lost his virginity with me. In the years to come, sex stressed him out, and he cut me off sex shortly after our wedding day. It improved minimally, and he never really got comfortable with it; I'm guessing that he's much the same way now.
@Andy1001, no lube needed here, unless we're doing anal! I had tried the on-top suggestion, and he moved exactly *with* me, so that friction wasn't really happening. I'm going back to the lack of experience thing.
@Livvie, I never thought of those possibilities; good thoughts.
@BioFury, Man #2 is the only man who's made me orgasm, period. Like Blue's gal, I thought it was all smoke and mirrors, and thought it would never happen for me (but have always enjoyed the ride). So, I was shocked when it did happen. He tried for a second go around, which was a no-go, but hey, once was pretty damn good!
@Affaircare, I'm happy to be a source of amusement for you guys! I remember someone here (unfortunately, I cannot remember who) recently said that they enjoy posts about my goings-on as well. (Putting the popcorn away…) You bring up some really fantastic points. In answer to your questions: Yes he's a person of quality, yes he has exactly the characteristics and traits that I'm looking for in a life partner, yes he is compatible with me and what I need (except between the sheets), and I believe that I'm compatible with him as well. The thing is this: when it comes to figuring out sex, I'm leery. Perhaps if I didn't go through that same experience with my ex-husband, I'd be less leery and more excited to mold someone into a great lover. But, on the flip side, you're correct in that maybe I'm also not his ideal when it comes to lighting his fire. This IS still worth a conversation because he as a person is worth exploring more. But, I still think it's a fine line between trying to figure things out, and leading him on.
@uhtred, a lot of alcohol wasn't involved. We had both had a glass of wine, but not nearly enough to make a difference in anything.
@Faithful Wife, good thoughts, danke, and it was a lot that I hadn't considered yet. You didn't threadjack, no worries


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Ursula said:


> Man #2 is the only man who's made me orgasm, period. Like Blue's gal, I thought it was all smoke and mirrors, and thought it would never happen for me (but have always enjoyed the ride). So, I was shocked when it did happen. He tried for a second go around, which was a no-go, but hey, once was pretty damn good!


If I were you, I would continue sleeping with man #2 and see if he can replicate your orgasmness. Maybe it's him, or maybe it was a fluke.

If it is him, then I would obviously lean toward him. Unless you've had nothing but horrible lovers for your entire life, then he's specially suited to you somehow.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Ursula said:


> @happyhusband0005, okay, here's the thing, when we got together on Saturday, we had sex 3x during the afternoon/evening. The last time, he popped out of me, but kept on going, not realizing that he was no longer inside until I said something. So yeah, that's not really promising, and I'm not sure if I should talk to him, or just cut him loose. We're making plans for Friday night, and I'm excited to see him, just nervous about knowing what to do and how to do it.



Ok what stands out for me is the 3x sex part: it’s actually pretty difficult (for an average guy) to orgasm multiple times (more than 2) in a row...
It’s obviously different for women (and a man should never try to compete! It’s a losing battle..). 
If I knew my wife was multi-orgasmic (she’s not: well if she has a strong orgasm from either clit or g spot - or sometimes both, separately - she’s satisfied and doesn’t typically want/can’t have more orgasms in same session), I would approach it differently: I would withhold my beloved soldiers till she has cum the desired amount of times and then release the love seeds (gross, but yeah)...That’s the only way really to make sure you can sustain and satisfy the hungry beast...

The fact that he was Sloppy Giuseppe on the 3rd go, is no surprise to be honest. The fact that he kept going: there could be a few reasons as to why. One is that the only way to keep hard (if you know you are about to go soft), is to try and increase stimulus any way you can: either via more penetration/vaginal muscles, or manual masturbation (which would involve the embarrassing act of pulling it out...), or thinking about that hot friend...
Basically any means.

The other reason is maybe he wasn’t aware that that is what was happening. I would not shame him for this or attribute it necessarily to his lack of skills (especially if it was his 3rd go which no one seems to have commented on! That’s not typical for guys to be able to multi-climax).

Lastly, on the chemistry. You know, I don’t understand men boasting about their skills as lovers. I mean, ok, you need to be above certain IQ and have some basic skills but beyond that: so much is to do with chemistry between partners. I have only ever slept with one woman (my choice) but been with girls in other ways for some ‘test drives’ in the past and I remember there were some where I just didn’t want to do anything at all...Just lie there and pray for it to be over soon. I’m not at all implying he’s not into you, just that this ‘skill’ men profess to have: ****, if you have the hottest woman, she will inspire you to go on to become and do truly great things, because you will never tire to try and find ways to take her to that new level [boasting]Ask me how I know! [\] meaning, if he’s really into you, he will have the desire to learn and earn that badge, if you give him a chance. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes in thinking about this more... like you said, a penis can be inaccurate in what it is “doing” sometimes. I think (imagine) that if it still feels good to him, he will just keep going. In certain circumstances, it may still feel good to him even if he isn’t exactly penetrating (or at least not at full force). This can be confusing to a woman because there’s such a stark difference between being penetrated by something fairly rigid and something not as rigid. We just know the diff immediately. Whereas, if a guy is feeling something pleasurable (easily true for when the penis is not as rigid as when full capacity) and especially if he is also experiencing pleasure emotionally and mentally, he may temporarily not be as focused on what his body or specifically what his penis is feeling. *It still feels pleasurable in his groin area generally to be touched or fondled, even if he isn’t erect.* So at times during intercourse, especially if it’s the third or fourth round, if he’s been drinking, and if he’s over 45...there’s just a difference in the amount of blood flow sometimes...but during those times it seems that if he is emotionally and mentally engaged, he can experience something very similar to full erection penetration at times when that is not actually happening.
> 
> Every time this has happened to me, there has been a very high level of intimacy and openness....but also a high level of drinking. Within safe, loving relationships where if we were both drinking, it was no biggie as we were not driving and didn’t have to get up early. Just a once in awhile weekend thing. The times this has happened, I also recall on the same weekend or around the night or two before that, we had had lots and lots of sex, probably over extending his body in a short period of time.
> 
> ...



Ahhh, if I understand what you are saying correctly :smile2: gonna go with no. the nerve endings and erectile tissue are in the penis:wink2:. not the 'general groin area'. 

Now, there can be pleasure without erection but it is the regular area0


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

Ursula, girl,... what is going on with your love life??? I have been busy and maybe I missed a post or two but... you are doing something wrong. I love ya but you are dating all wrong. Correct me if I have this wrong but in the last year or so that I have been reading your threads you are always on multiple OLD sites at the same time, and usually dating multiple men at the same time. And then you need to ask the TAM choir why things don't work out. 

Scenarios such as -- I was dating 3 men simultaneously but didn't tell them. I mentioned to my favorite one that I had sex with the big-D guy the night before, and he won't call me back now! Why?

--or now --

I really like this guy because he's perfect for me on paper.IE: good job, same philosophies, same goals. But he is horrible in bed. On the other hand I banged some awesome Liberian bad-boy the night before and he made me come like a tidal wave for the first time in my life. What should I do????

Girl, you are trying to date too many men too fast too often. Are you going for a Guiness Book record or something? If you are looking to play the field and just try a whole lot of D's, while making sure none of them will ever ask you to marry them,... then you're doing it right.
But if you are looking for a serious relationship, dating multiple men is a serious turn-off for anyone looking for a relationship in return.

Yes, it may be a double standard. If a man dates many women he is considered a stud (by other men only though, not by nice girls). But if a woman dates multiple men, and sleeps with them, then she is not good relationship material. She is... a "good time girl", but not a keeper. Sorry, that's just how it is. Right or wrong, that's how most men will view you.

Based on how I picture you, from you're own descriptions on multiple threads, I would be glad to go out on a blind date with you (if I was single). 40-something, divorced, cute side of average, glasses (?), nice personality, casual thc user,... I'm in! But on our 30th date, if you mentioned that you were on a date with another fellow the night before, you would never hear from me again. No call. No text. BLOCKED. I would label you a tramp.

You're a great lady and will make someone a great partner. Please "slow your roll".


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

anonmd said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Yes in thinking about this more... like you said, a penis can be inaccurate in what it is “doing” sometimes. I think (imagine) that if it still feels good to him, he will just keep going. In certain circumstances, it may still feel good to him even if he isn’t exactly penetrating (or at least not at full force). This can be confusing to a woman because there’s such a stark difference between being penetrated by something fairly rigid and something not as rigid. We just know the diff immediately. Whereas, if a guy is feeling something pleasurable (easily true for when the penis is not as rigid as when full capacity) and especially if he is also experiencing pleasure emotionally and mentally, he may temporarily not be as focused on what his body or specifically what his penis is feeling. *It still feels pleasurable in his groin area generally to be touched or fondled, even if he isn’t erect.* So at times during intercourse, especially if it’s the third or fourth round, if he’s been drinking, and if he’s over 45...there’s just a difference in the amount of blood flow sometimes...but during those times it seems that if he is emotionally and mentally engaged, he can experience something very similar to full erection penetration at times when that is not actually happening.
> ...


I did not word things well, but I meant penis and balls when I said “general groin area”. 😉


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I did not word things well, but I meant penis and balls when I said “general groin area”. 😉


Ok, that's a little better It was sounding more female like there on first read, which it isn't, I don't think, although I don't exactly know, cause I'm not a girl. LOL!


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Well Ursula, if you are "close" enough to have sex with him, you are close enough to talk to him about it.

3X in 1 night? If he "failed" on the 3rd time, I could see that happening. 

Was it good the first 2 times?

Yes there is a difference between "bad sex" and being nervous the first time with a new partner.
-----------------------

My sexual experience with others is very limited, only been with 2 men in my life, married both.

My 2nd husband is amazing in bed. A wonderful lover. Takes his time, makes sure I "get mine" first. 

It was 6 weeks or so into the relationship the first time we made love. We had fooled around though. (We had become very good friends online for a few months before that 6 weeks and got to know each other very well.) 

I was very nervous that first time. I didn't realize it then, but he was too.

He got on top and got going and he was SO QUIET. No noise, no talking, no "that feels good", nothing! 

I was scared he wasn't enjoying it, or that I wasn't what he expected, etc, etc.

I told him to get off.

LOL

He didn't say anything, didn't ask any questions. I didn't say anything.

We just fell asleep.

We are both very verbal and have very good communication, but my husband also is smart in that sometimes he knows it is better to keep his mouth shut and wait for me to say something. This was very early on in the relationship and he probably knew I was very nervous, but probably didn't know what would be the right thing to say and didn't want to mess things up. 

If this happened NOW, he would be like, "WHat's wrong? Are you ok? DId I Hurt you?" Especially since we have been together 14 years now and I have never pushed him off since. 

The next morning I woke up and I was like, oh. I really didn't want to talk about it, but he was starting to wake up and I know he probably wouldn't of brought it up, but I knew I better talk with him about this because this relationship can't proceed until then.

So I told him, he was so quiet I was worried he wasn't enjoying himself, etc. He assured me that wasn't the case and I can't remember what else. 

It's been so many years, I can't remember all the details. But the next time we made love it was great! No problems. I am sure he made sure to be a bit more verbal.

Side note, but related to this.

I was on the 10 year iud at the time and I made sure he used a condom.

Before 2 years we married. I still made sure to lock down the birth control.

Eventually the iud came out.

So we mainly used condoms for a long time and one night, maybe 4-5 years into the relationship, I threw caution to the wind and told him not to use it.

Now he knew I was satisfied with the amount of kids I already had from my 1st marriage, and when we married he agreed that was fine and we would just raise mine. 

I don't want to get too into the kid talk, we did eventually have 2 together, which are a blessing. (Well one is in heaven). At the time he wouldn't mind having kids together and/or having more, but always let it be my decision. 

Anyhow...

The one night 4-5 years later, I told him not to use the condom, and he was a bit reluctant, because he knew he could get me pregnant and knew that was not what I wanted at the time, (even though he hates condoms), he followed my lead.

Guess what happened. 

He got on top.

He was VERY QUIET AGAIN!

LOL

We still had a really good time. And no I didn't push him off this time. 

But I knew now what that quiet thing was about.

HE WAS NERVOUS!!!

And it reminded me of all those years earlier, and it made perfect sense.

 
_____________________________________

So first time with a new partner can be tricky.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Maxwedge 413, I actually have never been on multiple dating sites at the same time; I focus on 1 only. Back in December, I tried Match and wasn't a fan of it. Now, I'm on Bumble and like that one much better. Um, I'm not sure that I've ever outright told one guy that I slept with another the night before… To me, that's wrong and none of anyone's business. So, I'm not sure which scenario you're referring to there.

But yes, that is my conundrum at this point. Man 1 is much more suited to me, but I've tried to "train" my ex-husband and that was a gong show. Do I want to do that again? Nope. I want to be with someone who knows more than just "where to put it", but I also want the whole package. Man 2 is Lebonese, not Liberian.

I thought the way to figure things out is to get out there, meet and see a few men, feel them out and decide from there? My problem before was that I jumped in with the first man right away, and stayed for X-number of months/years even if things weren't good, hoping that they would improve. I don't want to do that anymore. I do want to be in a committed relationship, but I want to make sure it's with the *right* man this time. And, I realize that seeing more than 1 man at a time is a turnoff, which is why neither of them know about each other. Plus, I don't know if either of these men are seeing anyone else as well.

Your description of me is a little off: I'm not a casual THC user. I've tried CBD, but have never done drugs. I thought about it when I was in my last relationship, but it never got to that point. Yes, I have glasses. And, if I had gone out with someone 30x, I would've had the "are we exclusive" conversation well before that. 

But thank-you for your thoughts; I do appreciate them, although some of your facts are incorrect.
@FieryHairedLady, true enough for the third time that afternoon/evening. And I will be talking to him about it this evening when we see each other. Was it good the first 2x? Not particularly. It sounds like you and your husband have a very open dialogue when it comes to this (and other things, too, I'm sure). That's the way it should be! Like you were, I'm on birth control (the pill), and use condoms as well. Yeah, the first few times with a new partner can be really tricky, that's why it's good to have an open dialogue.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Teach him! Teach him what you like, what guy would do it to please his woman?!?!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I will add this: you can't teach passion!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I will add this: you can't teach passion!


But you can fake it😈


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Trying to teach a guy, is barking up the wrong tree.

Some have it and some don't, it's far easier to enjoy sex with those that have it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Bovine excrement.

Sex is a skill. Just like all skills, it can be taught and honed.

All guys had to start somewhere. Some learn quickly. Some (like me) didn't really learn how to "do it right" until later...because one lover was willing to communicate to me what worked for her and what didn't. Until then, I had not a clue, though I thought I did. 




Personal said:


> Trying to teach a guy, is barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> Some have it and some don't, it's far easier to enjoy sex with those that have it.




Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Bovine excrement.
> 
> Sex is a skill. Just like all skills, it can be taught and honed.
> 
> All guys had to start somewhere. Some learn quickly. Some (like me) didn't really learn how to "do it right" until later...because one lover was willing to communicate to me what worked for her and what didn't. Until then, I had not a clue, though I thought I did.


Drawing accurately is a skill. Just like all skills, it can be taught and honed.

Yet most people will never be great at drawing. No matter how much training they receive, and how much practice they get.

Some people are naturally better at sex, just as some people are naturally better at drawing.

That said I am not suggesting training and practice, can't make things better when it comes to sex. Just as training and practice, can improve drawing skills.

Yet it's foolish to pretend that everyone can be great at drawing or sex, even with lashings of training and oodles of practice.

Anyway @Ursula is 40, as is the man she is talking about. If a guy isn't great at sex by 40, the reality is he is highly likely not to ever be great at it no matter how hard he tries (if he tries).

That's not right or wrong, or good or bad, it just is.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Bovine excrement.
> 
> Sex is a skill. Just like all skills, it can be taught and honed.
> 
> ...


Pretty much. Though I think you need to have some very basic and general intelligence levels to get better at it. (THough a monkey can probably be good at it too).

But lets talk about that skill exactly: every woman (while there are some similarities; for example a lot of women are submissive) will have different needs and things that turn them on. If you are really good at oral but your new gf hates it, who cares how good your skill is at oral? And if your current gf like some hard, rhythmical pounding: how difficult is it to teach the guy to move his hips? 

I think men like to tell themselves this story about how great and skilful they are and the reason is ego. I think there are traits that can make you a better learner. But to say that sex 'skills' is something you either have or don't, is...funny.

I can say with certainty that at 16, I was really very sh1t at it. There were girls, where I tried to be very sensual, slow and take all the time in the world with them (basically the kind of crap you read, when you google how to please a girl) but I now know how off the mark that was with some of them. Each girl has very different requirements. And it's not until recently I figured out the sex stuff with my wife (and I am already 38). 90% of dominating her in the way that she likes is psychological. Can you teach that? I am sure you can. But only if you know what it is you need to learn...(Because she usually won't tell you - so that's the biggest 'barrier to entry, pardon the pun).


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

To be fair, Ursula... might he be feeling the same way?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Bovine excrement.
> 
> Sex is a skill. Just like all skills, it can be taught and honed.
> 
> ...





Personal said:


> Drawing accurately is a skill. Just like all skills, it can be taught and honed.
> 
> Yet most people will never be great at drawing. No matter how much training they receive, and how much practice they get.
> 
> ...


I like both of these posts and I think both have good points. 

I do believe things can be taught if the person is open to it. But at 40 if you don't get it, will you ever?

I was lucky enough to have a couple of older women when I was younger show me the ropes. I am grateful to them for that knowledge. 

But I would like to think that is would not be too bad in bed after being marriage for so long and not being sexless. 

Now, at 40, i have to say that i dont know if it is worth the time...


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> I like both of these posts and I think both have good points.
> 
> I do believe things can be taught if the person is open to it. But at 40 if you don't get it, will you ever?
> 
> ...


To be fair and to agree with @farsidejunky, it is possible for a guy who is over 40 to get it, if he hasn't before then.

Yet it is also fair to say, that it's likely they won't get it.


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## Curse of Millhaven (Feb 16, 2013)

Ursula, I have to throw my pennies in here and tell you that I think you’re brave; I’m grateful that you share about what you’re experiencing as a resilient newly single lady.

I like how fearless, open, and honest you are in your pursuit of love, intimacy, and companionship in the aftermath of your sexless marriage and divorce. You’re a phoenix. It’s truly admirable and I just wanted you to know that.

I really appreciate your post-divorce adventures in dating and learn from your threads. Some of us aren’t as intrepid and it helps to read about those who’ve broken free. So thank you; I hope you keep sharing and that one day you find someone who will cherish you for the treasure you are.

For the dilemma you’re currently facing – I imagine you’ve already had an open discussion with contestant #1 by now re: the craptacular copulation and investigating whether or not it was opening night jitters or his sexual SOP. Best of luck with that. 

He sounds like a great guy otherwise and my tender heart says you should try to work with him…but I have to be honest, if I were you I don’t know that I would. 

Like you I’ve suffered the soul shattering hell of a sexless marriage and if I find myself single again one day, I would want to find a skilled lover that is a PhD (Phuck Daddy!) in all things sexual. He’s gonna need to be ready to go out of the box, no assembly required. 

No ham-fisted attempts, no half-hearted humping, no hesitation, no goddamned permanent training wheels. I want passionate, no holds barred, expert level deep d***ing that makes me come like a volcano. I’ve done my time in the prison cell of celibacy and sexlessness, when my ass cries freedom it is ****ing ON! 

The sex in my first and only other relationship was fire. I felt passion and lust so deep, I was almost sick with it, fevered and frenzied. I long to feel desire(d) like that again. So if (and when) I get the chance to experience even a fraction of that once more, I'm gonna hold out for a compatible sexual partner and will not compromise.

So if your follow-up sexcapade with this guy is another pointless misadventure, then I think you should stop the ****ty ride and get off (literally haha!) 

Contestant #2 sounds promising and since you get on well with him and he has the awesome distinction of being the bringer of your first and only orgasm (!!!), then I think you owe it to yourself and your genitals to further investigate this exciting new direction in your sexual adventure.

No matter which path you choose, I wish you love, happiness, and fulfillment, and I hope whichever contender you choose, they make it rain orgasms like a ****ing monsoon. Godspeed!


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> how difficult is it to teach the guy to move his hips?


Surprising hard, although some might be easier to "teach" this to. Some men just aren't able to do this movement. My XH never got it, and would almost do pushups overtop me. It was odd, and not really effective, although maybe it made his biceps bigger.
@Curse of Millhaven, thanks, I'm glad that you have an appreciation for my posts. I usually feel like a complete doofus when posting, but always get some really good thoughts on things, and also feel that others can maybe get something out of my posts as well. So, it's worth it for this kid to feel like a dork for a short time. No, I actually didn't get a chance to talk to Man #1 on Friday or Saturday. He had wanted to kick back and watch a little TV, so we did that, and he gets up quite early, and I wasn't clear enough to bring it up the next morning. He forgot some stuff at my place this weekend, so he stopped by Monday to get them, and gave me a hug. Other than that, he barely touched me. So yeah, I just can't continue with him. It's unfortunate because in almost every other regard, he has the qualities I'm looking for. I'm really sorry that you've been suffering in a sexless marriage; it's an awful thing to go through, and does a big disservice to the other parts of a marriage.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Ursula said:


> Surprising hard, although some might be easier to "teach" this to. Some men just aren't able to do this movement. My XH never got it, and would almost do pushups overtop me. It was odd, and not really effective, although maybe it made his biceps bigger.
> 
> @Curse of Millhaven, thanks, I'm glad that you have an appreciation for my posts. I usually feel like a complete doofus when posting, but always get some really good thoughts on things, and also feel that others can maybe get something out of my posts as well. So, it's worth it for this kid to feel like a dork for a short time. No, I actually didn't get a chance to talk to Man #1 on Friday or Saturday. He had wanted to kick back and watch a little TV, so we did that, and he gets up quite early, and I wasn't clear enough to bring it up the next morning. He forgot some stuff at my place this weekend, so he stopped by Monday to get them, and gave me a hug. Other than that, he barely touched me. So yeah, I just can't continue with him. It's unfortunate because in almost every other regard, he has the qualities I'm looking for. I'm really sorry that you've been suffering in a sexless marriage; it's an awful thing to go through, and does a big disservice to the other parts of a marriage.


If I understand correctly, you're dropping man #1 completely? What's the deal with man #2?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Kudos for putting yourself out there. I realize that some of the intensely open and intimate stuff that gets posted here can leave folks feeling silly, or vulnerable. Trust me, people appreciate it.

It's truth. And like it or not, everybody has to deal with that in one way or another, so it's deeply personal when someone elses truth and experience, aligns with your own.

And good for you for going after what you want.

Sorry, just can't agree with the bit about post-divorce women multi-dating and sleeping around being something to frown upon, or exclusionary for LTR's. I just don't see it.

As long as you feel safe, valued, and are getting what you want and expect out of ANY relationship you are involved in, then you are doing something right. Even more so, if you know when it's time to pull the plug, and you do it, rather than wasting your time and his, you are a rare breed indeed.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I like both of these posts and I think both have good points.
> 
> I do believe things can be taught if the person is open to it. But at 40 if you don't get it, will you ever?
> 
> ...


O
All good comments above but I haven't seen this touched on, forgive me if I missed; the real keys are: 

1. Love of the female form. Not just a passing fancy when an urge hits. Real, real, real appreciation of the lines, curves, shapes that can be put together in such a wonderful way to look at AND play with AND mentally connect.

2. Know the mental and spiritual connection will be a journey and ever changing condition with peaks of clarity, over time. A wonderful landscape itself to be an explorer and find the hidden treasures. 

3. Be, don't just imitate being, a true connoisseur of the female form combined with her mind. Know when to focus on both and when to focus on each part individually at times.

4. MOST IMPORTANTLY is having the DESIRE to play the female instrument the best it can be played. One has to WANT TO BE the best player of her body, the best lover possible each time you have the blessing of taking her out of her case (clothes) and enjoying the glorious instrument she is. 

Females can be magical, wonderful, soft, hard, brutal, loud, quiet, frustrating, peaceful, and soothing to the male body and mind. All at once, sometimes separate, always mixed to enjoy and drink deeply of.

One has to truly want to suffer through practice, spend time practicing with her and for her, to be able to know, truly know, that one will have the chops to play the concertos when called upon.

Have the knowledge not all songs will be played perfect but that all will be played to the best of your ability and you know you're only getting better. 

When you think and know your a great musician know she'll change the pages and call a different tune. That's the magic. Be ready!

Be a musician. The song remains the same. (Yes, that's a Led Zeppelin reference).

Desire. One has to want to do it and spend the time in mental and physical practice. 

Any age can learn to play well.

Why? Because women are wonderful. 

😍 just my two cents.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Ursula said:


> Surprising hard, although some might be easier to "teach" this to. Some men just aren't able to do this movement. My XH never got it, and would almost do pushups overtop me. It was odd, and not really effective, although maybe it made his biceps bigger.



Sometimes it’s just as easy as getting a new (taller) bed. It’s actually quite hard thrusting for a long time in a regular missionary position, with most of your weight in your arms (and stomach). It looks good in movies but it doesn’t feel as good as it looks...maybe ok at the beginning, but for something more meaningful and longer, it’s better to stand.
For deeper, more controlled and rhythmical thrusts a tall bed with extra thick mattress can make all the difference.
Or turn over and let him be on his knees (doggy). 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> Sometimes it’s just as easy as getting a new (taller) bed. It’s actually quite hard thrusting for a long time in a regular missionary position, with most of your weight in your arms (and stomach). It looks good in movies but it doesn’t feel as good as it looks...maybe ok at the beginning, but for something more meaningful and longer, it’s better to stand.
> For deeper, more controlled and rhythmical thrusts a tall bed with extra thick mattress can make all the difference.
> Or turn over and let him be on his knees (doggy).


Oh contraire mon ami, it is not that hard. It takes a little effort but, there are several bonus spots you can hit that way. 

But no, it is harder to go forever that way, but some of the reactions are you get are great, and you can kiss them at the same time. One of my favorites...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> Oh contraire mon ami, it is not that hard. It takes a little effort but, there are several bonus spots you can hit that way.
> 
> 
> 
> But no, it is harder to go forever that way, but some of the reactions are you get are great, and you can kiss them at the same time. One of my favorites...



Yeah easier to kiss, if you are the same height...my wife is quite a bit shorter than me so I end up snogging the pillow 
You can still kiss if you stand (and she is on her back). Tried sex swings? When we built a playground for our kids, the engineers almost got the bedroom plans with the playground plans mixed up...so we also have a sex ‘slide’ in the bedroom too  (as well as firemen’s pole; with real firemen, at wife’s request). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

I didn't find h to be a great kisser when we met- I couldn't figure how to Fix it so I just took the male lead

It took awhile to get used to being the aggressor but we both liked it in the end

If I didn't like what h was doing I would say" ok that does nothing for me try something else" at some point- say 25 years in he came up with
Some new very exciting moves- figured it was an affair or he learned it from some instructional
Porn he watched on Saturday nights


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Ursula said:


> I usually feel like a complete doofus when posting, but always get some really good thoughts on things, and also feel that others can maybe get something out of my posts as well. So, it's worth it for this kid to feel like a dork for a short time.


It's likely the openness you share with your threads that often has me posting to them. 


Seek mutual chemistry... and an appreciation of Seinfeld :wink2:


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

glitch..!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Ursula, 
When looking for a potential partner, getting one that's a good dancer can give one a look at a person's ability to move the hips. 

Always a good indicator I've found.

When in bed or on the floor 😎 a man can rest his on his elbows when the elbows are placed above her shoulders in missionary position. That makes his hips moving independently a must, works great.

Encourage (insist) a bed mate to change positions multiple times in an encounter, that can lead to finding the most favorite angles and comfort zones.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> It's likely the openness you share with your threads that often has me posting to them.
> 
> 
> Seek mutual chemistry... and an appreciation of Seinfeld :wink2:


Ah, but Man #1 LOVES Seinfeld, and we've started working our way from the pilot episode onward! But, there's still very little chemistry. The chemistry we have is actually just interacting on a casual level (ie, clothes on, chatting about everyday life). But, that may be a new question that I have to incorporate into my initial communication: "what does a typical weekend look like for you? How do you feel about dogs? Do you like Seinfeld?" :grin2:


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Ursula,
> When looking for a potential partner, getting one that's a good dancer can give one a look at a person's ability to move the hips.
> 
> Always a good indicator I've found.
> ...


Believe it or not, but Latin dance classes are where I learned that the Cuban motion isn't a learned thing; you either have it or you don't. It can probably be honed after a looong time practicing, but for most, I think it's natural. 

And, while I like it when a man takes charge in the bedroom, I have no problem requesting a change, or telling them to get on their back, etc.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Ursula
He forgot some stuff at my place this weekend, so he stopped by Monday to get them, and gave me a hug. *

With a fairly new relationship, some men want to play the part of a gentleman and don't push for anything sexual because we hear all too often men only want sex and are not interested in the woman as a person. I am in that group, even though I would really rather get down to the intimacies.

Some men have been blamed for being "horn dogs" for so long, they play the game much too reserved.

Have you told #1 how much you like sex and naked time together? Give that a try and see how he reacts.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Ursula said:


> Surprising hard, although some might be easier to "teach" this to. Some men just aren't able to do this movement. My XH never got it, and would almost do pushups overtop me. It was odd, and not really effective, although maybe it made his biceps bigger.
> @Curse of Millhaven, thanks, I'm glad that you have an appreciation for my posts. I usually feel like a complete doofus when posting, but always get some really good thoughts on things, and also feel that others can maybe get something out of my posts as well. So, it's worth it for this kid to feel like a dork for a short time. No, I actually didn't get a chance to talk to Man #1 on Friday or Saturday. He had wanted to kick back and watch a little TV, so we did that, and he gets up quite early, and I wasn't clear enough to bring it up the next morning. He forgot some stuff at my place this weekend, so he stopped by Monday to get them, and gave me a hug. Other than that, he barely touched me. So yeah, I just can't continue with him. It's unfortunate because in almost every other regard, he has the qualities I'm looking for. I'm really sorry that you've been suffering in a sexless marriage; it's an awful thing to go through, and does a big disservice to the other parts of a marriage.


If he calls over again,answer the door naked.If that doesn’t get him going then send him packing.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ursula said:


> Believe it or not, but Latin dance classes are where I learned that the Cuban motion isn't a learned thing; you either have it or you don't. It can probably be honed after a looong time practicing, but for most, I think it's natural.
> 
> And, while I like it when a man takes charge in the bedroom, I have no problem requesting a change, or telling them to get on their back, etc.


I'm having the hardest time picturing a man doing the Cuban motion while propped on elbows and knees during missionary. :scratchhead: I think my husband and I were doing it wrong all those years.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

It's one of the very best position for me/us. 
It allows intimate pubic bone contact, motion and involves all parts of female anatomy. &#55357;&#56842;&#55357;&#56842;&#55357;&#56842;

Only one of the best, of course. &#55357;&#56846;&#55357;&#56846;&#55357;&#56846;


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Handy, no I haven't outright said that to him, as while I do enjoy naked time, I'm not particularly drawn to him in that way. 
@Blondilocks, that would be weird indeed! I was more referring to Cuban motion in reference to some hip action, and that some find it easier and more natural than others. My XH could never get that motion down, and I have a close girlfriend who I've tried to teach salsa to, and she also cannot move her hips, as she's very tense. So, some get it, some don't. 

Ironically, yesterday I started chatting to a man who salsa dances with a well-known dance troupe in the city we live in. Eeep!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Ursula I love reading your threads. Lady you give me hope about life after divorce. I don't have much to add but just wanted to say thank you for teaching me something today. I had no idea there was such a thing as the "Cuban motion". I thought it was a joke until I looked it up. Speaking as a Cuban I think the hip action is learned from constant exposure from an early age. Having said that, some people do it better than others, regardless of the level of exposure. 😊


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I can't believe I'm going to expound on this 😏😏, but with elbows above a woman's shoulders one keeps her from sliding up and keeps up pressure "down below" as motion goes slooow, or faster, as hips act independently.

It provides opportunity to totally control her and the build up. Never putting ones weight on her, one can vary between full body contact and withholding contact up and down, as called for when reading her response. 

It makes kissing very passionate while action keeps on below. 

When not kissing it creates option of putting one hand in her hair, cradling the back of her head, pulling back, or forward, and one hand can be mobile periodically. 

'Nuff said on this subject. Have been doing this for years. Learned from older women when college age.

PS dear W and I met on the dance floor.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I can't believe I'm going to expound on this 😏😏, but with elbows above a woman's shoulders one keeps her from sliding up and keeps up pressure "down below" as motion goes slooow, or faster, as hips act independently.
> 
> It provides opportunity to totally control her and the build up. Never putting ones weight on her, one can vary between full body contact and withholding contact up and down, as called for when reading her response.
> 
> ...


Having good balance and core strength really helps too, as one can free up an arm and hand while still maintaining position with the other.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ursula said:


> @Handy, no I haven't outright said that to him, as while I do enjoy naked time, I'm not particularly drawn to him in that way.
> 
> @Blondilocks, that would be weird indeed! I was more referring to Cuban motion in reference to some hip action, and that some find it easier and more natural than others. My XH could never get that motion down, and I have a close girlfriend who I've tried to teach salsa to, and she also cannot move her hips, as she's very tense. So, some get it, some don't.
> 
> Ironically, yesterday I started chatting to a man who salsa dances with a well-known dance troupe in the city we live in. Eeep!


Have your salsa friend google "The Cuban Motion in One Lesson" by Joe Baker. She'll see exactly how the motion derives from the movement of the foot and leg. She may be thinking of 'swinging' her hips and that is wrong. Teach her the Cha- Cha. She should love that one.


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