# When does "innocent flirting" become something to worry about?



## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

When does "innocent flirting" if there is such a thing become something a spouse should worry about? When your spouse is very "friendly" with other women, when should the wife start getting concerned? Are there degrees of flirting??? What do you ladies think? Is it ok if your husband flirts because it's in front of you and not behind your back? What do ya'll think?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

No, IMHO it's not ok to "innocently flirt" in front of your wife.

It's one thing if all you're talking about is an outgoing, friendly, gregarious personality. It's another thing entirely if he is making suggestive remarks to other women, touching them, implying that he would be in any way interested in them.

My SO has a very magnetic personality; he's interesting, sensitive, friendly, funny, and very handsome to boot; other women "light up" when they are around him. But he NEVER makes any remarks that are the least bit flirtatious, and when we are around others he always is touching me -- holding hands, has a hand on my leg, or his arm around me. Zero mixed messages for other women to interpret the wrong way.

I think flirting in front of your spouse can be very hurtful.


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## nikoled (Mar 12, 2014)

My husband is a fun person. He likes to make jokes and has innocently flirted many times. Until that innocent flirting turned into an EA with a much younger woman. It is a slippery slope. Lead us to discover just how bad his boundaries are. If it is something that is raising your concern you probably have reason to be concerned quite honestly. I'd at least have a discussion about healthy boundaries and decide what is ok and what is not in your relationship.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> No, IMHO it's not ok to "innocently flirt" in front of your wife.
> 
> It's one thing if all you're talking about is an outgoing, friendly, gregarious personality. It's another thing entirely if he is making suggestive remarks to other women, touching them, implying that he would be in any way interested in them.
> 
> ...


He doesn't make remarks about being with them or really touch them. But, he will talk to them more than me. He doesn't include me in the conversation unless I take it upon myself to be included. He can stand a little too close to them though. It seems he likes to find things in common with them and sometimes he does things out of character for him to get a reaction from them. He is very outgoing, likes to be center of attention, a jester. So, it's hard for me sometimes to decipher if this behavior is really innocent, just having a good time, or if maybe he has the wondering eye.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

magnolia2014 said:


> When does "innocent flirting" if there is such a thing become something a spouse should worry about? When your spouse is very "friendly" with other women, when should the wife start getting concerned? Are there degrees of flirting??? What do you ladies think? Is it ok if your husband flirts because it's in front of you and not behind your back? What do ya'll think?


It's one thing for a spouse to make a single joking comment that could be construed as flirting, but that is not an OVERT flirt. Hard to give an example, but it's a fine line.

Anything beyond a single joking comment isn't acceptable in my book. I find flirting with other people disrespectful to your spouse. Innocent flirting (99% of the time) isn't really innocent. It might be that the flirter isn't going to take it any further, but it doesn't mean it's not the first step. Why tempted yourself.

It's like if you're on a diet, why walk into a bakery and sniff around.


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## nikoled (Mar 12, 2014)

Yep, that is how mine was too- likes to make people laugh and get attention. Lead to an affair. Neither of us ever thought it would happen- he was a great husband and was always crazy about me, but someone acted on his innocent flirting and the attention was too tempting. I"m devastated, but so is HE. I'd at least discuss it.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

The fine line is "flirting" and "not flirting".

Innocent flirting = flirting which is inappropriate and disrespectful.

Do that crap when you are single, not while in a marriage/relationship.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

DoF said:


> The fine line is "flirting" and "not flirting".
> 
> Innocent flirting = flirting which is inappropriate and disrespectful.
> 
> Do that crap when you are single, not while in a marriage/relationship.


That's what I thought


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

it always seems to be "innocent" or "no big deal" to the person doing the flirting. Can't say the same about the spouse that has to sit there and try to ignore it.

This is one thing my wife does that pisses me off. She loves casinos, expecially blackjack. We can be in a casino, she spends a little time with me, very reserved, quiet, kind of not having fun. Later she will go off by herself to a blackjack table, and it is like a switch gets turned on. She is animated, joking, shouting, laughing so you can here her 6 tables away. 

I do not think flirting is the right term, more like "being one of the boys", a fraternity mentality, the "party girl" comes out. 

I have noticed it, and not sure what to feel about it at all. But i know i don't feel good about it.

i would not mind the party girl coming out, as long as I was a chief beneficiary of her exuberance. But i am not. So yeah, it makes me wonder if i were not there in the casino, what else would be going on?

another concern is that she does not hold her liquor very well, 2 drinks and she is soused.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

If it bothers you, then his flirting is inappropriate. If he doesn't accept that, you have a problem.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

murphy5 said:


> it always seems to be "innocent" or "no big deal" to the person doing the flirting. Can't say the same about the spouse that has to sit there and try to ignore it.
> 
> This is one thing my wife does that pisses me off. She loves casinos, expecially blackjack. We can be in a casino, she spends a little time with me, very reserved, quiet, kind of not having fun. Later she will go off by herself to a blackjack table, and it is like a switch gets turned on. She is animated, joking, shouting, laughing so you can here her 6 tables away.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Have you ever talked to your wife about this? How did she respond? Did she see your point of view?


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> I think flirting in front of your spouse can be very hurtful.


I agree with this. 

Flirting by it's very nature starts out light and silly. It's a way to guage response. If the recipient responds negatively or coldly you break it off and treat it as though it was light hearted fun. If they respond positively it gets more pointed and the dance continues...

I agree there can be a fine line and it's not always easy to distinguish between flirting a light hearted fun. I would think if it were just fun he would be more inclined to include the OP in the discussion. 

OP...you're asking the question so obviously your gut is telling you something is off.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

magnolia2014 said:


> Interesting. Have you ever talked to your wife about this? How did she respond? Did she see your point of view?


My wife is like Murphy's... I did confront. Gaslighting 101: "I don't do that ... You are reading too much into it, I'm not different when you are there with me..." (and so on) 

This is quickly followed with the attacks like you are the one in the wrong. It always goes like that. "Not my problem, it's yours!"

btw; My wife is a serial adulterer... or um.. "outgoing personality with tons of friends" after her spin on things.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

So, to the men that's responded to this thread. Why would a happily married man, newly wed, flirt with another woman in front of his spouse and act like it's nothing? Because he's not happy, right? I wouldn't flirt with another man unless I was unhappy and looking for someone, something else. It's the same for men, right?

Or do some men flirt with other women just to keep their ego up?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

magnolia2014 said:


> So, to the men that's responded to this thread. Why would a happily married man, newly wed, flirt with another woman in front of his spouse and act like it's nothing? Because he's not happy, right? I wouldn't flirt with another man unless I was unhappy and looking for someone, something else. It's the same for men, right?
> 
> Or do some men flirt with other women just to keep their ego up?


For some folks, being happy with what they have doesn't prevent them from looking around to see if there's maybe something better to be found. It may be that he is happy. But that it's also never occurred to him to stop looking for the next new exciting woman to be happy with.

Does he have a short attention span in other areas?


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

Rowan said:


> For some folks, being happy with what they have doesn't prevent them from looking around to see if there's maybe something better to be found. It may be that he is happy. But that it's also never occurred to him to stop looking for the next new exciting woman to be happy with.
> 
> Does he have a short attention span in other areas?


No Rowan, he doesn't. He rarely forgets things and is usually pretty focused. Actually, I have a short attention span, not him. LOL! But, not in this area. I've never entertained the idea of cheating - even with previous boy friends before I met my husband. If I wasn't happy, I didn't cheat - I just ended it and moved on.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

magnolia2014 said:


> So, to the men that's responded to this thread. Why would a happily married man, newly wed, flirt with another woman in front of his spouse and act like it's nothing? Because he's not happy, right? I wouldn't flirt with another man unless I was unhappy and looking for someone, something else. It's the same for men, right?
> 
> Or do some men flirt with other women just to keep their ego up?


I don't think it necessarily means he's unhappy. There could be various dynamics behind it. He could be trying to show you he's still attractive to other women. He could feel the need to get his ego stroked by getting new women to take an interest in him. It could be he just can't help himself and that's how he's learned to deal with women. I think you have to assess his motivation based on what you know about him. It would be next to impossible for anyone who doesn't know him to figure it out. 

To me the key is it makes you uncomfortable. He should care that something he does makes you uncomfortable.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

***sigh*** Guess I need to ask him about it. 

I never thought I would be a newly wed and questioning my husbands motives with other women. I trusted him completely before we married or I wouldn't have married him. Wonder why this change? Does it get easier??? Don't answer that.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I can't say whether it gets easier or harder. I would say it's always best to deal with these things head on as they come up and not let them fester. Better to have everything in the open than allow resentment to grow to the point there is a blow up of some sort.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

magnolia2014 said:


> ***sigh*** Guess I need to ask him about it.
> 
> I never thought I would be a newly wed and questioning my husbands motives with other women. I trusted him completely before we married or I wouldn't have married him. Wonder why this change? Does it get easier??? Don't answer that.


Is his behavior a change? Or was he always flirty with women?

This makes me think he's always been flirty and that is part of his outgoing personality:



magnolia2014 said:


> He doesn't make remarks about being with them or really touch them. But, he will talk to them more than me. He doesn't include me in the conversation unless I take it upon myself to be included. He can stand a little too close to them though. It seems he likes to find things in common with them and sometimes he does things out of character for him to get a reaction from them. *He is very outgoing, likes to be center of attention, a jester. *So, it's hard for me sometimes to decipher if this behavior is really innocent, just having a good time, or if maybe he has the wondering eye.


Maybe he just needs to understand what specific behaviors cross the line from acceptable to not acceptable for you.

It's not easy learning how to be a married couple! Don't despair. It takes time to understand each other.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

norajane said:


> Is his behavior a change? Or was he always flirty with women?


This is a change. Whenever we were dating and went out together I was his everything. He was affectionate with me. His arm was always around me, hand rested on my knee, little kisses. Sure there were conversations with women but nothing that I ever thought was strange or un-called-for. He wasn't trying to gain their attention in any way - he only wanted mine. Now, within the past month or so, very recent, sometimes it's like I'm not even in the room. I'm puzzled.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

norajane: I can see how I lead you to think it was a common thing with him. He's always been loud and yes, he wants to be in every conversation and even put in his 2 cents but he wasn't so focused on other women or tried to keep their attention on him.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

magnolia2014 said:


> This is a change. Whenever we were dating and went out together I was his everything. He was affectionate with me. His arm was always around me, hand rested on my knee, little kisses. Sure there were conversations with women but nothing that I ever thought was strange or un-called-for. He wasn't trying to gain their attention in any way - he only wanted mine. Now, within the past month or so, very recent, sometimes it's like I'm not even in the room. I'm puzzled.


Has he also changed with you at home? Is he still as affectionate with you at home as he was prior to marriage?

Maybe he's under the mistaken impression that, now that you are married, he doesn't have to try as hard to "win you over" because he's already got you.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

norajane said:


> Has he also changed with you at home? Is he still as affectionate with you at home as he was prior to marriage?
> 
> Maybe he's under the mistaken impression that, now that you are married, he doesn't have to try as hard to "win you over" because he's already got you.


Home life is the same - no changes in affection there.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I can't say whether it gets easier or harder. I would say it's always best to deal with these things head on as they come up and not let them fester. Better to have everything in the open than allow resentment to grow to the point there is a blow up of some sort.


Thank you MaritimeGuy. I agree - better to talk it out sooner rather than later. I just had to get some perspective on here first.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I do not think any sort of flirting is acceptable, I hear people a lot saying harmless flirting.... NO such thing in my book.... Doing it in front of me, or behind my back is total disrespectful and inappropriate.... Why is there need?...

Each to their own, but there is no room for it at all in our relationship.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

magnolia2014 said:


> Interesting. Have you ever talked to your wife about this? How did she respond? Did she see your point of view?


yes we have discussed, and even fought a little, over it. She does not understand, though i have tried to explain my point of view.

I actually do not trust her where there is booze and casino together. She says i am nuts, that it means nothing. but i have one of those "gut feelings" about it all.

I pointed out that i would not mind it so much if I got some attention first, THEN she went off and did her party girl stuff. She DID admit that she blew me off the last time we were in casino--begrudgingly admitted it.

One of her responses "you can not control me"...

my response "it is inappropriate for a married women to party with stranger males that way"

her counter "there were plenty of women at the conference gambling with tables full of men"

My response "but you were enjoying the company of strange men much more than being with me"

then she left for another business trip. So...to be continued.

its like she can vaguely admit to the behavior, but it is deep in her subconscious...she does not want to talk about it, is finding excuses. 

Maybe gaslighting is the right term? but a self-delusional gaslighting?


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

murphy5 said:


> .
> 
> I actually do not trust her where there is booze and casino together. She says i am nuts, that it means nothing. but i have one of those "gut feelings" about it all.


yeah, I have a "gut feeling" too and a nervous stomach to boot. Hope your situation gets better. Do you ever sit down and play the tables with her?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

magnolia2014 said:


> yeah, I have a "gut feeling" too and a nervous stomach to boot. Hope your situation gets better. Do you ever sit down and play the tables with her?


i do go out of my way. But she is just wild about blackjack. I am not as much into it, and not as good. So at $10 per minimum bet, at some point i just cash out, maybe a couple hundred bux down. i guess one lame response would be to just stand there behind her seat and watch her play all night.

that would be REAL fun for me! lol

and this last time, i waited for her to be done with her conference, she shows up, stays with me for literally 3 minutes at my roulette table, and then takes off to gamble on her own. What piled on it in my mind was her almost fleeing away to be by herself after not having seen me all day long. That was the "gut feeling" part, lots of little things all adding up while i was sitting there gambling alone...when i was expecting her to be with me.

I do not think she is actually cheating or even thinking about it. She is a real sexual prude, and very conservative. But something odd is going on in her subconscious. maybe i am just too boring for her. who knows.

sorry, did not mean to jack this thread


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I think the 'serial flirters' are looking for boost to their self-esteem. They feel more attractive, that makes them happier. There is couple like this in our social circle, the guy just cannot keep his hands to himself, but we treat him just friendly, sometimes bring him back to order. I think he loves his wife and is not cheating, but I also think she accepted that this is his way, but suffers in silence. I wonder if the resentment is building there on her side.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

magnolia2014 said:


> This is a change. Whenever we were dating and went out together I was his everything. He was affectionate with me. His arm was always around me, hand rested on my knee, little kisses. Sure there were conversations with women but nothing that I ever thought was strange or un-called-for. He wasn't trying to gain their attention in any way - he only wanted mine. Now, within the past month or so, very recent, sometimes it's like I'm not even in the room. I'm puzzled.


He might be losing a battle with his penis or getting more attention from ladies.

Many women go after married guys......cause they know they can't have them.

Regardless, tell him about above. See what he says!


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

magnolia2014 said:


> Now, within the past month or so, very recent, sometimes it's like I'm not even in the room. I'm puzzled.


yeah, what the heck is with that? 

Its like the spouse is bored with you or something. or maybe they are bored with themselves, and are "branching out" to see if they can get a thrill from others of the opposite sex. 

I was wondering if mine was doing it deliberately to make me jealous or something, or encourage me to step up my game? Maybe just subconscously? Force me to fight for and win her back??

this **** is complicated.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

The fact that this is something new is troublesome. Maybe he's one of those that finds his ego in the challenge? Now that he's 'got you' his interest is waning? Buyers remorse? I don't know... He really needs to figure out why he's doing it and open up a bit or change.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

murphy5 said:


> yeah, what the heck is with that?
> 
> Its like the spouse is bored with you or something. or maybe they are bored with themselves, and are "branching out" to see if they can get a thrill from others of the opposite sex.
> 
> ...


Yes to all of the above! I mean, really, bored already? We haven't even been married a year. What throws me is things at home haven't changed - sex life hasn't changed. So, why when we're out in public does he feel the need to get attention from other women??? I understand maybe he's getting a thrill from it. Hey, it's nice when another man shows me some attention. The difference is - I DONT encourage them nor do I LOOK for it. 

I need to do like DoF said and talk to him - tell him he wasn't like this before we married. Honestly, I'm a little worried on what his response will be. And on the other hand, every time I think about it I get so upset and I can't talk to him when I'm already upset - it will make the situation worse - I should be calm about it. 

You're so right! It is complicated and truthfully, it really shouldn't be. Like your wife should be grateful and thankful that she has a husband that will loose $200 just to sit with her and do something she likes to do. Instead, she shows the other people at the table more attention than you. It's absurd! 

What is the reasoning behind these actions?? I don't know about you, but I don't like the stupid ****ing games. We're not in high school. You are a grown man/woman who is married - why don't you act like one!

Sorry - just had to vent that out


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

In no uncertain terms do I flirt in the presence or absence of my wife. I have too much respect for her. If someone attempts to flirt with me(like the elephant at the zoo) I do not play along or reciprocate. Of what sense is the little 'thrill' one gets? Maybe to test the waters? 

One time my SIL told my BIL that what difference does it make were she gets her appetite as long as she fills it at home? Needless to say they are separated now for obvious reasons.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> In no uncertain terms do I flirt in the presence or absence of my wife. I have too much respect for her. If someone attempts to flirt with me(like the elephant at the zoo) I do not play along or reciprocate. Of what sense is the little 'thrill' one gets? Maybe to test the waters?
> 
> One time my SIL told my BIL that what difference does it make were she gets her appetite as long as she fills it at home? Needless to say they are separated now for obvious reasons.


The "thrill" I speak of is just that's it's flattering - nothing more. I don't believe in flirting unless I'm flirting with my husband. If someone else tries to flirt with me, it's flattering, but I do not encourage them to continue and usually quickly introduce them to my husband.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

magnolia2014 said:


> What is the reasoning behind these actions?? I don't know about you, but I don't like the stupid ****ing games. We're not in high school. You are a grown man/woman who is married - why don't you act like one!


it might be beyond their control? for it to be a game, they have to be cognizant they are "playing" a game. I am not sure they are aware. It just happens. Like a jekell and hyde thing, the flirting personality just comes out, does its nasty thing, then when you two are back together again a different persona shows up. Damned strange. Maybe that is why it does not make sense...it IS crazy

this might be a corollary to the "Madona/wh*re" complex. They have one super flirty personality when they are not around you (even just 5 tables away at a casino), but act like a chaste old married person when they are next to you?


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

Well I talked to my husband tonight. I was calm and told him I have noticed a change in him since we got married. I explained how it was when we were dating and how he's been very "friendly" with other women now. 
Very sad to say the conversation didn't go well. He said I was ridiculous and needed to grow up. Didn't apologize at all. In fact he told me he wasn't going to put up with this stupid s**t.
I am at a loss for words.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

magnolia2014 said:


> Well I talked to my husband tonight. I was calm and told him I have noticed a change in him since we got married. I explained how it was when we were dating and how he's been very "friendly" with other women now.
> Very sad to say the conversation didn't go well. He said I was ridiculous and needed to grow up. Didn't apologize at all. In fact he told me he wasn't going to put up with this stupid s**t.
> I am at a loss for words.


His response is interesting and disappointing. He could be backing you off, but I would certainly expect to see a change in his public behavior for now on. Good job. Don't at all be rattled by his crappy behavior here...as he was acting like a jerk to you in public in that way and is acting like a jerk in blowing up...don't feel like you have to back down because of his loud bark.

Which brings us to the next point...if he is apt to passive aggression then he may try to "stick it" to you to by testing boundaries behind the scenes. Be vigilant and I would suggest marriage counseling...nip this in the bud.

My theory behind men who flirt like this are trying to validate their manliness by constantly seeking out the approval from other women. He won your approval, but it wasn't enough,and not because he doesn't love you, but because he is missing something and he is overcompensating for it by needing others to like him and for women to think he is charming. That can only be fixed when he confronts his own issues and NOT from the next thrill.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

The way he reacted is worse than the flirting or needing attention from these other women. The fact that he really didn't care about how I felt and even called me stupid for feeling this way just leaves me feeling very alone. I'm extremely hurt. This has opened the door for so much doubt, resentment, and insecurities. How can he honestly not care about my feelings??? If your spouse doesn't care about your feelings than who the hell does?


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Sorry he responded the way he did. Had he defended his actions by something along the lines he doesn't mean anything by it or he thinks you're misinterpreting his interactions would have been one thing. To tell you you're not entitled to your own feelings is something different. 

As difficult as it may be I think you need to confront this situation with him. If you start out the relationship with him being allowed to be dismissive of your feelings it will become a pattern that is much harder to break later on.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

magnolia2014 said:


> The way he reacted is worse than the flirting or needing attention from these other women. The fact that he really didn't care about how I felt and even called me stupid for feeling this way just leaves me feeling very alone. I'm extremely hurt. This has opened the door for so much doubt, resentment, and insecurities. How can he honestly not care about my feelings??? If your spouse doesn't care about your feelings than who the hell does?


His response seemed very defensive, and offensive at the same time. How does he normally handle conflict with you? Conflict with other people? Does he often blow up at people? Does he apologize later? Some people are terrible at handling conflict and just make things worse instead of seeking understanding and a resolution.

How long have you two known each other? I'd have expected this kind of reaction to have shown up while you were dating at some point, during a fight or other disagreement. Do you know anything about his relationship history?

What happened after your discussion?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Racer said:


> My wife is like Murphy's... I did confront. Gaslighting 101: "I don't do that ... You are reading too much into it, I'm not different when you are there with me..." (and so on)
> 
> This is quickly followed with the attacks like you are the one in the wrong. It always goes like that. "Not my problem, it's yours!"


Just quoting myself. You got the 'normal' reaction I'm used to dealing with. I can only theorize about how to handle it right. I didn’t. What I did was cave in under the attack and start defending myself about how ‘yes I do notice this’ and citing examples. Then when we were out, I’d be left watching her purse at the table as she mingled around. Sitting there getting pissed. When we’d argue later, she’d do the same “This is your problem! (jealous, paranoid, etc.)” and I’d cave again.

One large regret is that I never just went in hard or shot for just ‘being attractive’; I *****ed about it. Instead I sought out all sorts of excuses for why she did it trying to console myself, whined to her, started passive/aggressive stuff, etc.. I made mistakes. 

Did I mention she became a serial adulterer? I didn’t go in hard until too late. I actually got the “I wouldn’t think it’d bother you” line (probably because I tolerated entirely too much in that awful past trying to be a ‘good husband’ instead of acting like a man). So learn from my mistakes. 

If he continues to flirt, draw that line that this IS NOT something you will be willing to tolerate in any serious relationship much less a marriage. Make it clear you can’t deal with it. 

Then start taking actions beyond whining about what a jerk he is. It doesn’t have to mean awful stuff either. C0ck block him and mess with his game; Just walk up when he’s flirting, slap him on his arse, whisper something crude about the other woman, let him know he’s blowing his chances for you later, stick your tongue in his ear and walk away… mark him and defend your territory. Basically, pee on his leg and throw poo at this other woman stepping into your domain. Use your feminine powers…


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

norajane said:


> His response seemed very defensive, and offensive at the same time. How does he normally handle conflict with you? Conflict with other people? Does he often blow up at people? Does he apologize later? Some people are terrible at handling conflict and just make things worse instead of seeking understanding and a resolution.
> 
> How long have you two known each other? I'd have expected this kind of reaction to have shown up while you were dating at some point, during a fight or other disagreement. Do you know anything about his relationship history?
> 
> What happened after your discussion?


We have been together as a couple for 3 years, known each other for 4, and been married 5 months. 
He's not one to really talk about his feelings and he's reacted like this before on things, but he's also been understanding and able to talk things out at times too. I haven't been able to pick up on a pattern of when he dismisses my feelings and when he will talk through them. I agree - I think his reaction was defensive. Defensive, to me, shows he knows he has done wrong, and maybe pissed that I noticed and called him out on it. 

The issue is completely unresolved. After the discussion we went to bed with our backs turned away from each other and we haven't spoken this morning at all.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

Racer said:


> Then start taking actions beyond whining about what a jerk he is. It doesn’t have to mean awful stuff either. C0ck block him and mess with his game; Just walk up when he’s flirting, slap him on his arse, whisper something crude about the other woman, let him know he’s blowing his chances for you later, stick your tongue in his ear and walk away… mark him and defend your territory. Basically, pee on his leg and throw poo at this other woman stepping into your domain. Use your feminine powers…


Won't I come out looking like the B***h by doing this? I would think this would turn him off to me completely. Make me seem jealous and insecure instead of disrespected and hurt. :scratchhead:


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

magnolia2014 said:


> We have been together as a couple for 3 years, known each other for 4, and been married 5 months.
> He's not one to really talk about his feelings and he's reacted like this before on things, but he's also been understanding and able to talk things out at times too. I haven't been able to pick up on a pattern of when he dismisses my feelings and when he will talk through them. I agree - I think his reaction was defensive. Defensive, to me, shows he knows he has done wrong, and maybe pissed that I noticed and called him out on it.
> 
> The issue is completely unresolved. After the discussion we went to bed with our backs turned away from each other and we haven't spoken this morning at all.


Truly sorry.

He was being way too defensive imo.
As wieghtlifter would say play dumb and go into PI mode.
I suggest you get a voice activated recorder and stick it in his car.
I hope you get nothing but his reaction is disturbing.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

magnolia2014 said:


> Won't I come out looking like the B***h by doing this? I would think this would turn him off to me completely. Make me seem jealous and insecure instead of disrespected and hurt. :scratchhead:


My opinion is this is not the solution anyhow. To me it's like stopping him from shooting other people by running around putting bullet proof vests on everyone. You're eventually not going to get to someone.

To me he has to change..or not...because that is what he believes is the right thing to do. Depending on his choice you can then choose to accept his decision...or not. 

You're not responsible for supervising him. You're responsible participating in a relationship with him. Part of that entails communicating what you will accept and what you will not.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> My opinion is this is not the solution anyhow. To me it's like stopping him from shooting other people by running around putting bullet proof vests on everyone. You're eventually not going to get to someone.
> 
> To me he has to change..or not...because that is what he believes is the right thing to do. Depending on his choice you can then choose to accept his decision...or not.
> 
> You're not responsible for supervising him. You're responsible participating in a relationship with him. Part of that entails communicating what you will accept and what you will not.


:iagree::iagree:
You can't control him you can only control how much you will or will not put up with.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

IMO it is very disrespectful to flirt with others when you're in a committed relationship; it is VERY disrespectful when your SO is right there next to you!

My DH is a natural flirt. The only way I found to curb it was to show him was it was like on the other side. I had one conversation very early on in our dating; then a few months later (we were still only dating but much more seriously), we went to dinner and he started to flirt outrageously with the waitress. I was very annoyed but hid it, then decided to take action.

I offered to go get us drinks at the bar and let him know he should stay put. We were seated upstairs in a loft-type area with tables, and the bar was visible over the railing downstairs. The bar was empty and the bartender was male.

So I went down the stairs, shaking it a little to keep my date's attention, and headed straight for the bar, smiling at the bartender. Had some fun flirting with the bartender. Complimented him on his shirt, asked for his opinion on the best drink, bent just a little over the bar to look at the options on the liquor wall and thus flashed the Girls a bit (they were lovely Ds at the time). Kept smiling at the bartender, got a smile and a laugh out of him. Was pleased because I wanted my DH to see the fella smiling and laughing back with me. Asked the bartender if I could get a better look at this tattoo and touched his arm. I wasn't over-the-top obvious, but was a little shameless- I made sure that my DH got to see me having some fun with someone else and how effortless it was. (I left the bartender a nice tip as well for playing along.)

I went back upstairs with the drinks and my DH just sat there looking at me. My DH is an instigator, prankster, and overall sh!t-starter; he knew exactly what I was doing and why. Finally I broke the silence, saying something goofy like "It's so much fun to flirt with the wait staff; they can't get away!" My DH finally smiled a little and just said, "Well played." I smiled back at him and raised my glass and gave a toast, "To us- so glad we understand each other." We have never had to have another conversation about his flirting since and it's been 8 years since that incident.

In some ways you can consider it "tit for tat" but I look at it more as educational action, or non-verbal communication. Of COURSE we seem "controlling" and "jealous"- until they get to experience watching their loved one gushing all their attention onto someone else. Then it's a different story.

I've used this methods on other issues as well (especially child care)- it works well on my DH, and it works just as well when he does it to me. It's humbling but can be really eye-opening when one's sh!tty behavior is reflected right back.

I am not sure of your age or confidence level- I would have to do it differently if I were try the same thing now. I was confident of the outcome with the bartender back then, pre-marriage/IVF/motherhood...now it would be a different story. But if you've got the moxy for it, it might do your DH good to step in your shoes for a little while. Just don't cross any real lines- don't go overboard!

Good luck to you!


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

magnolia2014 said:


> Won't I come out looking like the B***h by doing this? I would think this would turn him off to me completely. Make me seem jealous and insecure instead of disrespected and hurt. :scratchhead:


No... You don't do it in a [email protected] way. You do it in a flirty but starting to get mad at you for talking to her sort of way. Maybe that's the key; You act before it becomes a problem. Jealousy is not a bad thing; it means you care enough about them to become irrational and possessive. Don't let him or ‘others’ twist it in your head to be a bad trait... 

The other key. Something you'll notice about older couples... a whole unspoken language gets developed over time. "The Look"... multiple ones are created where your spouse knows what you are thinking from across the room. That stuff gets developed through things like this. So the wife and I do joke about peeing like a dog marking territory... You develop these inside jokes and experiences.

So, because we’ve talked about irrational jealousy or paranoia and about peeing on our perceived territory, we’ve talked about those actions. Bonus points when someone else just doesn’t get it, so we do stuff that isn’t acceptable normally by others: You can do stuff human resource memos tell you aren’t acceptable simply because you are a couple. Like if your talking to my wife and its getting a bit chummy… I’m secure enough that I can excuse myself from a conversation I’m in, walk right up to her, grab her breast, say “nice rack”, kiss her on the cheek and walk away again. My wife understands that’s me peeing on her leg. And plays right along; She won’t tell the dude what that was about (and would knock his block off if he tried that). It’s sort of funny how people react. We just pretend it’s completely normal, but inside we’re giggling at our spouse and thinking fond things about each other. Weird private stuff between you two bonds a lot better than vows you and every other couple have repeated. 

So start creating your own language and weird inside jokes. It is actually fun.

By all means, try to place ultimatums, tell them how it hurts you, etc. I just know that isn’t going to evoke the ‘pleasant’ thoughts about you. You do need to tell him, but you need to do something about it that will actually get the responses you want. You want him to be bonding with you instead of that tramp.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I have a female friend who inexplicably MUST get the attention of any man who is attached to someone she knows. Including men who are her in-laws, etc. It actually goes back to something very bizarre in her childhood, where she heard her mother tell a story over and over about how she did something nice for her friend's husband and how complimentary the husband was. Something about this story her mother told her "taught" her that it was fun to get the attention of attached men (this is my theory, anyway).

And although she truly has no interest in these men and would never have an affair with them or whatever, she will still go to great lengths to simply flirt and be inappropriate. Point being, she really is NOT trying to cheat or escalate anything beyond words...but for whatever reason, the words, innuendos, random touching and showing her cleavage (or similar) is something she apparently will never stop doing.

She even lost a girlfriend due to this behavior, because she was flirting with her girlfriend's father, who is still married to the girlfriend's mother. She did this flirting with the father right in front of her friend! She thought it was all just funny, but it was completely inappropriate and I really don't know why she couldn't see that. 

So anyway, I'm just giving this example because I know for sure she isn't doing it to actually get physical with these men (and she's not even attracted to them). She is doing it due to some weird thing she learned as a child. Sometimes things are not as they appear, because from the outside it would look like she was trying to horn on someone's husband or boyfriend. That's really not what she's doing, she just wants to flirt with them and apparently, she wants to annoy the wife with her behavior, but she truly doesn't want their man.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I have a female friend who inexplicably MUST get the attention of any man who is attached to someone she knows. Including men who are her in-laws, etc. It actually goes back to something very bizarre in her childhood, where she heard her mother tell a story over and over about how she did something nice for her friend's husband and how complimentary the husband was. Something about this story her mother told her "taught" her that it was fun to get the attention of attached men (this is my theory, anyway).
> 
> And although she truly has no interest in these men and would never have an affair with them or whatever, she will still go to great lengths to simply flirt and be inappropriate. Point being, she really is NOT trying to cheat or escalate anything beyond words...but for whatever reason, the words, innuendos, random touching and showing her cleavage (or similar) is something she apparently will never stop doing.
> 
> ...


Despite the motivation it still sounds as though it's toxic in many ways.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Flirting with others is not acceptable in my relationship. I don't do it and I expect my partner not to do it.


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## magnolia2014 (Aug 29, 2014)

Racer said:


> No... You don't do it in a [email protected] way. You do it in a flirty but starting to get mad at you for talking to her sort of way. Maybe that's the key; You act before it becomes a problem. Jealousy is not a bad thing; it means you care enough about them to become irrational and possessive. Don't let him or ‘others’ twist it in your head to be a bad trait...
> 
> The other key. Something you'll notice about older couples... a whole unspoken language gets developed over time. "The Look"... multiple ones are created where your spouse knows what you are thinking from across the room. That stuff gets developed through things like this. So the wife and I do joke about peeing like a dog marking territory... You develop these inside jokes and experiences.
> 
> ...


You know what Racer, I think you're right - "act before it becomes a problem". Jealousy is a natural human reaction in some cases. What would it hurt to "pee on his leg" a little... Even though he probably doesn't mean anything by it, at least the girl will know he's mine and maybe he'll understand that some of his actions speak more of flirting than just being friendly and begin to understand what I feel. Besides, it's better than sitting there getting more pissed off by the minute, right?

I'm definitely going to try it and see what happens. 

Also, it's sort of funny, your story with your wife and grabbing her breast, my H has done this to me before. I feel you let me in on something maybe he was feeling at the time, so thank you. 

We still have so much to learn about one another, but I'm sure we'll get there.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Despite the motivation it still sounds as though it's toxic in many ways.


Since I have known her for a very long time and have seen the rest of her life choices, I know it isn't. But it definitely is a problem for the poor people who are caught in her little web...namely people like her friend and friend's father (or mother for that matter, who definitely would not have appreciated the flirting).


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Since I have known her for a very long time and have seen the rest of her life choices, I know it isn't. But it definitely is a problem for the poor people who are caught in her little web...namely people like her friend and friend's father (or mother for that matter, who definitely would not have appreciated the flirting).


What I meant was it sounds toxic to the people around her. She lost a friend over it. 

It could potentially create troubles in somebody else's relationship if a woman isn't comfortable with her husband's response to your friends flirting. 

How does your friend's partner view it?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> What I meant was it sounds toxic to the people around her. She lost a friend over it.
> 
> It could potentially create troubles in somebody else's relationship if a woman isn't comfortable with her husband's response to your friends flirting.
> 
> How does your friend's partner view it?


She is in a new relationship, and her new guy hasn't had a chance to see much of it, yet. So we'll see.

I'm guessing he won't like it, and she will act bewildered like "why, who cares, it is innocent" like she has in the past when people didn't like it.

But my impression is that her new guy is kind of a flirt, too so maybe he won't care. I haven't met him yet.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

> When does "innocent flirting" become something to worry about?


The moment anyone thinks flirting actually IS innocent.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

magnolia2014 said:


> When does "innocent flirting" if there is such a thing become something a spouse should worry about? When your spouse is very "friendly" with other women, when should the wife start getting concerned? Are there degrees of flirting??? What do you ladies think? Is it ok if your husband flirts because it's in front of you and not behind your back? What do ya'll think?


There is no innocent flirting, 

Always it is a semi erotic play between adults, on the very edge.

The excitement is rewarding one with a shower of ultimate good feelings. This against ones better judgement....

It striked me recently to hear that in opposite sex friendships the females mostly think there is no sexual part, because they themselves do not feel that at all. But the males 'always' have a sexual interest in them, and would act on it if they are given an opening.

Maybe that explains why you woul ask this question, for a male the sexual undertone is always present, and has to be controlled by proper behavior.

I heard onetime that in the old Italy, if a man and a woman were alone for 15 minutes, there assumed they would have had sex...


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

See_Listen_Love said:


> There is no innocent flirting,
> 
> Always it is a semi erotic play between adults, on the very edge.
> 
> ...


But even for those women who are not looking for a sexual relationship, they got off on the fact that their flirting partner is behaving, at least at that moment, like a boyfriend. And if he is married, then they scored because "he treats me better than he treats his wife......." and so on.

After some reflection after my divorce, I believe that a(n ex female) friend of mine was trying to groom my (ex)H to date him.


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