# Does a little payback help you move forward?



## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

My husband doesn't see any issue with our sexless marriage. I personally go through an emotional cycle with each dry spell. Hurt and feeling rejected/unwanted, panic and trying to figure out why, anger/resentment, and finally distraction. I have talked to him until I have nothing more I can say to get my feelings across, he makes promises that he will "try" and finally him stop trying after a few weeks. Our dry spells can last for weeks to months (once a couple of years). 

The emotional cycle is inevitable for me and the only thing I can do is try to get it to distraction as quickly as I can. I have found over the last few cycles is I get stuck in the hurt/rejection mode or anger mode and can't move on. I have found a little payback is the only thing to make me move forward. I am not talking about anything permanently damaging like an affair. I know it is childish and petty but it makes me feel better.

For example, my husband prefers tv over sex. I recently was looking on the schedule of shows to record over the next couple weeks and saw a huge amount of new ones set to record. Now these are not sports or movies but shows about cars or other subjects that really don't have a storyline to follow. I just looked at these shows and saw more countless reasons he can use to avoid me. My first instinct was I am not going to compete with these freakin shows and set them all to temporarily not record. That felt so good and now I feel over that hump.

I know payback isn't the PC thing to do in a marriage but sitting here giving him the middle finger from the next room isn't cutting it.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

I must say that I find the idea of messing up his TV recordings quite funny (and tempting) but that's mainly because I can't stand TV, never watch it and, before marriage, didn't even have a TV to switch on. My (prospective) husband at first found the idea of living without a TV both interesting and attractive. However, after two years of marriage, despite the fact that we still have no TV, he's discovered that he can watch Netflix on his laptop! This means days on end of him sitting there watching crap, neglecting his work (we both work from home) and generally lazing about doing nothing all day. He's actually developed backache from sitting on his butt so much and will often take to his bed, taking the laptop with him, which makes the back problem even worse. At first, the sound of constant Netflix drove me to distraction, prevented me from working effectively and made me want to just walk out. After a few occasions when I went out walking for hours just to get away from the constant noise of cars, gun shots, sirens, explosions, shouting and swearing (in the movies he watched), he's taken to wearing headphones so that I don't have to suffer the noise pollution. This means he now spends most of the day totally cut off from his surroundings by the headphones and communication has become even more rare than it was. I'm more tech minded than he is, so if his Netflix "breaks" I will make sure I can't find the solution. 
Like your husband, OP, he has a low sex drive, but we have sex much less often than you do. Over the past 18 months or so while experiencing these problems, I've tried talking to him several times with no improvement. Although I've experienced both anger and resentment towards him, I've been very careful not to let that spill over into making unkind comments or doing spiteful things. That would damage me as much as him as I have my own self esteem to consider and don't want to be a spiteful and vindictive person. I've now totally given up trying and our marriage has deteriorated to the separate bedrooms stage (on my insistence). Watching him sitting watching films all day every day has made him much less attractive to me and, although I'm desperate for sex, I'm turned off by the thought of sex with him. 

What you've done is not very PC, but it's not as if you've done him any real damage by not recording his shows so I wouldn't worry too much about that. If you can keep the paybacks non-damaging in this way (and also try to let go of anger and spite), then if it does make you feel a little better and it represents some progress in getting some much needed sex, then I shouldn't worry about it if I were you.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

LOL, no the middle finger has to be seen to be felt! Which is to say, stop talking and start acting. Stop begging for sex, stop expecting sex, stop wanting sex with him. Take care of your own needs every chance you get. Start building a life dish with fun and rewarding experiences. Do not rely upon nor ask his involvement. Just do it. He is your room mate, not your husband. You do not own your roommate an invite, nor do you owe your roommate the right to sway your activities one way or the other.

This is not a suggestion to go find a boyfriend! This is a suggestion to do the female 180, build your inner strength to the point where you are ready to leave a passionless man.

I could not remain with a man who refused sex without a very very compelling reason. My H used to be distant, unconcerned and disaffected by my feelings but he never turned me away from sex. If he had done that, I would never have tried to fix the marriage. I would have found a way to get the hell out.

Let him see your middle finger each time you leave to go have fun without him!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Here's what I do. 
When I go through a dry spell, I work on myself. Maybe lose a pound or two, go to the gym more often, go out and do something fun by myself. I also say to myself that if my wife does not want me, I know there are women out there that would love to F me. Somehow it gives me strength. For some reason I sense that my wife can feel what I am thinking about other women. Maybe it passes to her through osmosis, I don't know. 

Remember this, even if your husband does not want you, I'm certain there are literally thousands upon thousands of men that would love to have YOU.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I understand why you do this, but I don't believe it really helps.

You should find a better outlet for your anger. Exercise is a good one.

Let your revenge be looking super hot. If he continues to ignore you, find a way out.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't think your subtle ways of getting even help you or the situation to get better. Maybe try to be more direct. Shut off the tv and suggest that you really want some time with him. I often get aggravated by a woman's lack of being direct when they want something and make you figure it out...and getting pissed if you don't figure exactly what it was they wanted.


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## I got this (Feb 25, 2013)

180


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> I don't think your subtle ways of getting even help you or the situation to get better. Maybe try to be more direct. Shut off the tv and suggest that you really want some time with him. I often get aggravated by a woman's lack of being direct when they want something and make you figure it out...and getting pissed if you don't figure exactly what it was they wanted.


Trust me I have been direct and he knows. I couldn't have told him my feeling any more clearer over and over. I stopped asking months ago because it was starting to feel like begging. Just occasionally, the lack of physical intimacy comes out of left field and smacks me up the side of the head and I get stuck in the emotions. Sometimes I can find ways to get myself back distractions easily and sometimes I can't. I wouldn't do any kind of payback that was truly hateful like like destroying property or even forgetting birthdays but just a little oomph at them like turning on the washer when they are in the shower.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

intheory said:


> Btw, doobie, your description of your husband's Netflix viewing was hilarious. I really did laugh out loud, my face flushed, my eyes teared. I don't know if you meant it that way; but it really came across as funny:rofl:


Just read it again and I can see why it made you laugh. Although having the headphones on really reduces communication between us, it's been a huge relief for me because I really do get totally stressed out by the sound of a TV. I'm quite anti-TV - was very strict with the children when they were young about watching. I always had a rule that if the TV was on, somebody had to be sat in front of it actively watching it. When their programme finished, they had to switch off, no channel surfing for something else to watch. If visitors arrived while the TV was on it was immediately switched off - I think it's rude to leave it on when you have guests. This meant that I had to spend more time playing and interacting with the children, but that's the best time of your life anyway, so was always a pleasure for me. I have watched TV in the past, I really enjoy documentaries, gardening programmes, alternative comedy but I think you always get to a stage where you just sit in front of it, watching. Life without a TV is so much more enriching - you have better conversations, do more interesting stuff, etc. I do yoga, I meditate, I love gardening and walking and I read a lot (just read Schnarch's Passionate Marriage which was suggested here on TAM and found it fascinating). Not having a TV means spending time doing much more interesting stuff than just veg-ing out on the sofa. 

As for the description being funny, I think maintaining a sense of humour makes it much easier to cope with problems. I don't let myself be defined or consumed by the problems I have, I try to see the funny side as I'm much less likely to get depressed about the problems. Life is great and I look for pleasure in the world around me. I can walk into the garden, see a new flower or a little bird and it will make me smile - we live in such an amazing world with so much beauty around us that getting bogged down in problems means we miss out on so much.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

onedge said:


> Trust me I have been direct and he knows. I couldn't have told him my feeling any more clearer over and over. *I stopped asking months ago because it was starting to feel like begging.* Just occasionally, the lack of physical intimacy comes out of left field and smacks me up the side of the head and I get stuck in the emotions. Sometimes I can find ways to get myself back distractions easily and sometimes I can't. *I wouldn't do any kind of payback that was truly hateful like like destroying property or even forgetting birthdays but just a little oomph at them like turning on the washer when they are in the shower*.


I understand the pain you feel, as I was in a Sex Starved Marriage, but was able to work through it. 

From what I read, you have given up on trying to work through the problems. That is a really bad sign for your marriage. It means you are emotionally withdrawing. You are angry and upset, you can either channel that anger in a constructive way or not.....your choice. I advise you to consider using it constructively, like exercise or getting a life. Do fun things that make you feel good. Don't engage in juvenile behavior, be an adult. Otherwise do the adult thing and tell him it is time to end the marriage.

Let me now backtrack a little. My wife didn't have sex with me, because she was angry at me. She was civil to my face. She only admitted well after we started marriage counseling and after we had again started to have sex that she had been angry at me. 

Do you know why your H won't have sex? You have discussed it with him many times, but DO YOU KNOW WHY? 

This could be a classic example of words over actions on his part. If he says he is tired and yet he stays up late watching TV, the root problem is not being tired but wanting to say up late without you. Does he need time to himself or is it that he doesn't want to be with you or have sex with anyone? 

When my wife would not have sex with me, I stayed up late so that when I crawled into bed I was so exhausted, I would fall asleep right a way, I also knew she would be asleep as opposed to the two of us laying in bed next to each other getting angry or trying to talk about being denied sex. Ultimately, I got a life and started to get more sleep.

You might want to try talking to him again but ask and listen, without criticizing. Then thank him and ask if you can ask again if he does something that doesn't jibe with what he told you as you love him and want him to be happy. If he really is interested in the "plot" of his TV shows, then help him tape them so he can binge watch on a weekend day you have things planned for you. If he just needs alone time, figure out how the two of you can work it into your day. 

If he is just not into sex that much (and has no anger toward you), ask if he can do things that make you feel loved or that he views as not sex, but satisfy some of your needs for sex. (Maybe sexting you messages during the day on your phone would not be viewed by him as sex, but your reading them while you masturbate would make you feel better; maybe he would be willing to spank you if you found that sexually exciting, maybe he could give you a massage or hold you while you masturbated....find something you find as sex-like that he doesn't mind doing). 

My point for this is that I see giving up as equating to ultimate divorce. Marrage is hard and at least one person needs to fight to keep it going or work on improving it.

Good luck.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Young At Heart...Thank you for response. It really was nice. A little background:

1. This has been happening 15 of the 18 year marriage.
2. We have these conversations many times, calmly and non judgemental.
3. We have been to doctors. T Levels low side of normal range. Prescribed little blue pills.
4. He says not angry and doesn't act like it in any other form.
5. Not a smoker, drinker, or drug user.
6. No porn. No privacy to view it anyway
7. Very little masturbation if any. I believe it.
8. No other women. Either he is home or work.
9. He has a sedentary lifestyle and no interest in changing it
10. According to him he just doesn't think about it.
11. I have initiated many many times
12. I pretty much live in the bedroom now and he in the living room.
13. He likes his job and lifestyle.
14. He would like me to be in the living room...watching tv with him.
15. We get along great outside the physical intimacy.
16. We seldom argue. Even about the sex it is calm discussions.
17. Our kids are pretty much grown with youngest being 17.
18. Depression? Maybe some I am not certain. He doesn't really show any signs other than no interest in sex.
19. He seems to panic if I want to do anything not involving him.
20. He acknowledges my feelings but doesn't follow through.

Sorry, I guess that was long but yeah I reached the giving up stage.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Your husband is no longer sexually attracted to you so you find some relief in messing around with his TV shows.

Nice. How about trying to deal with the real problem here?

Why isn't he sexually attracted to you anymore? Is it all because of him, or have you changed?

By changing, I'm talking about weight gain. It matters.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

In Theory...
The pills were actually quite successful. He say he can feel things in places he hasn't in a long time. He has gained a lot of weight now but this was after the issues started. 

He says it isn't me every time we have discussed this. He says hey some young hot girl could bend over in front of me and I might notice her but my first thought isn't going to be I want some of that it will be more like does she need help with something. 

He seems to panic if I go out of the house to do things like meet up with a friend and sometimes even errands without him. I seldom do anything without him along with me. The other day I had come home from work feeling sticky from sunscreen at work so I took a shower and did spend a little extra time on my hair. I needed to just run to the store real quick...a 10 minutes trip at most...no makeup and just around the house clothes. He asked if I wanted him to go and I said no it was okay. He came back into the bedroom and sat down on the bed and asked why he can't go. I told no reason other than I was just going to run there and back. So he went with me.

I agree so heartedly that it is a slap in the face.


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## bubba29 (Feb 29, 2012)

i have a dastardly mind. often my wife and i will have plans for fun AFTER the kids are asleep. many times she falls asleep in one of the kids rooms while tucking them in only minutes after talking about our impending plans. this leaves me to my horny thoughts and my left hand. she then sneaks into our bed in the middle of the night when i am deep asleep. the thought of skeeting where she sleeps so she lays in it when she finally does come to bed has often crossed my mind. 

i've never done it but i think that would get my point across pretty strongly.:FIREdevil::FIREdevil::FIREdevil:


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

bubba29 said:


> i have a dastardly mind. often my wife and i will have plans for fun AFTER the kids are asleep. many times she falls asleep in one of the kids rooms while tucking them in only minutes after talking about our impending plans. this leaves me to my horny thoughts and my left hand. she then sneaks into our bed in the middle of the night when i am deep asleep. the thought of skeeting where she sleeps so she lays in it when she finally does come to bed has often crossed my mind.
> 
> i've never done it but i think that would get my point across pretty strongly.:FIREdevil::FIREdevil::FIREdevil:



:smthumbup: That brought out a giggle.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

onedge said:


> 3. We have been to doctors. T Levels low side of normal range. Prescribed little blue pills.
> 4. He says not angry and doesn't act like it in any other form.
> *9. He has a sedentary lifestyle and no interest in changing it10. According to him he just doesn't think about it.
> 13. He likes his job and lifestyle.*
> ...





onedge said:


> In Theory...
> The pills were actually quite successful. *He say he can feel things in places he hasn't in a long time. He has gained a lot of weight now but this was after the issues started.*
> 
> *He says it isn't me every time we have discussed this.* He says hey some young hot girl could bend over in front of me and I might notice her but my first thought isn't going to be I want some of that it will be more like does she need help with something.
> ...


May I suggest your reading in a couple of areas. 

The first is metabolic syndrome, it often involves pre-diabetes and that can involve reduced blood flow and erectile problems.

The second thing that you might want to read about is co-dependence. Your husband may be totally dependent on you. Another great reason for him to read Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy. 

His starting an exercise program or you helping him to exercise and loose weight could help in all areas, including depression. Is there anyway that you can tell him that you want to start exercising a little more, principally going for walks in your neighborhood and that it you really want him to walk with you for company and protection? That might help break the current cycle he is in.

Are there any 180's that you would feel comfortable doing? For example you now practically live in the bedroom while lives in the living room. Can you take up gardening in your backyard, where he can see you from inside? Maybe have him set up a chair on the back poarch, so you can talk while gardening? Anything to break the current cycle he has become comfortable with in a way that will not panic him?

Good luck, I really suggest a good MC in addition to a complete physical for him.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

UMP said:


> Here's what I do.
> When I go through a dry spell, I work on myself. Maybe lose a pound or two, go to the gym more often, go out and do something fun by myself. I also say to myself that if my wife does not want me, I know there are women out there that would love to F me. Somehow it gives me strength. For some reason I sense that my wife can feel what I am thinking about other women. Maybe it passes to her through osmosis, I don't know.
> 
> Remember this, even if your husband does not want you, I'm certain there are literally thousands upon thousands of men that would love to have YOU.


Excellent advice. After the sex stopped, I did gain about 30 pounds. I lost 25 of that a couple years ago and of course nothing changed. I noticed recently that since I stopped asking some of the weight is creeping back in. That osmosis thing...I think there is some truth to that theory.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> May I suggest your reading in a couple of areas.
> 
> The first is metabolic syndrome, it often involves pre-diabetes and that can involve reduced blood flow and erectile problems.
> 
> ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Let us take a step back. What do you like about him? Why do you want to stay married to him? How would it affect your life to divorce him and go looking for someone else?

Of course he is worried when you go out. He knows he is not satisfying you. He fears you will go out and find someone who will satisfy you.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Young at Heart had advice on incorporating 180's. My understanding of this theory is to do something opposite to illicit a different response.

Here is my question: Up to a couple months ago we used to do most everything together outside of work. TV, shopping, errands, cooking dinner, etc. The amount of time together fed his needs but didn't increase intimacy. My 180 was to stop spending that amount of time with him and basically started staying in the bedroom including meals. Nothing changed except now his needs aren't being met. He did notice the 180. 

Now I am scratching my head on other 180's to try. What has worked for other readers? Thanks young at heart for bringing this to my attention.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Holdingontoit said:


> Let us take a step back. What do you like about him? Why do you want to stay married to him? How would it affect your life to divorce him and go looking for someone else?
> 
> Of course he is worried when you go out. He knows he is not satisfying you. He fears you will go out and find someone who will satisfy you.


I have really asked myself the same questions. I do actually like him. He is funny, intelligent, trustworthy, respectful, tries his best as a provider. Everything a gal would want in a best friend. If our desires matched, it would be a comfortable and happy marriage. I have had past relationships where the sex was there but not the other qualities.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

According to DH the blue pills have helped tremendously in sensation and feeling erections deep into groin that he hasn't felt in years. He was so excited about the feelings that he ended up hurting himself because he was a little too enthusiastic. In the past, he would have erections but maintaining them to orgasm was difficult. He now is able to have the happy ending each time with the pills. His weight makes it difficult for long amounts of PIV and positions but we had discovered other ways to have completion for both of us. My frustration isn't really inside the bedroom...just getting from his chair to the bedroom. 

I don't believe divorce is the answer either. I think it would some how crush both of us. I stopped asking because I didn't want to become this nagging/needy wife. I have plainly told him my needs, things that he does that are a turn on, things he could do that are a turn on, things I would like to try. He says he likes it when I initiate but then he avoids me if he thinks I will. 

A year ago, he was excited because he woke up with morning wood and was showing me. Unfortunately, our jobs didn't allow us time to have complete fun with it but I told him just wait until I get you home again. He avoided me for the next several days and I just said forget it. I think that is the last time I made any real effort because I wanted off the hopes up and hopes squashed rollercoaster.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You should read WoundedWarrior's thread


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

At this point in my "marriage" the thought of payback is what keeps me going. Payback as in, let her rot alone in this country or surrounded by scheming relatives in her country.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

Depends. Moving forward heading to divorce or moving forward where you're distracting yourself from not getting enough sex?

Payback won't get you more sex. If he's testing borderline testosterone maybe he needs to look further into that. If he's obese he needs to get healthy for his and your sakes. I can't imagine him feeling sexy about himself if he's really fat. He needs to do something about it and he needs to want to do something about it.

If his testosterone is on the low side of normal that may be why he doesn't think about sex much. Does he fantasize about sex often? My husband was borderline on the test and went on testosterone supps and it helped our sex life and our marriage alot. It didn't turn him into a horndog or anything but it was very helpful. Just another point to consider.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

lenzi said:


> Your husband is no longer sexually attracted to you so you find some relief in messing around with his TV shows.
> 
> Nice. How about trying to deal with the real problem here?
> 
> ...


Disagree, politely.

I don't think it has jack squat to do with attraction or non-attraction to her. If it was, he'd be "taking care" of himself (which OP says he does not) or he'd be going outside the marriage (which OP says he is not).

Not only that, but (provided she is correct that he doesn't masturbate, watch porn or is cheating on her) he'd still be having sex with her occasionally, of his own volition. The sex drive is a powerful thing. For the vast majority of the healthy human population, it's pretty much a necessity to, if not have somewhat regular sex with a partner, then to take care of business by one's self.

This is not a "her" problem, this is a "his" problem. As in he's unhealthy mentally or physically (or both).


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