# Women - have you noticed it?



## Faithful Wife

There is statistical data that tells us that over time, women tend to lose their sexual desire for a man in an LTR. The stats also tell us that the man's desire does not go away.

If you are a woman, have you ever noticed this?

If you have, could you attribute it to anything specific about your husband? Or did you just feel the loss happened within your body?

I have one close girlfriend who told me this always happens to her in LTR's and it is definitely not because of anything the guy has done.

I don't have a lot of other direct examples, so I thought I would ask here.


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## I shouldnthave

Hum....

I still desire my husband sexually after 18+ years. 

Is it the same as when we first met? No, I can’t say just looking at him makes me all lusty. It takes a bit more work mentally for me now. I’ll think about sex we have had, or things I want to do with him etc to get the arousal ball rolling. 

Or sometimes it’s totally non sexual things that will re-ignite my attraction. Like recently he was the key speaker at a large event. Seeing a how many people respected him and the way he effortlessly worked a room (and had them laughing so hard - some times I forget how hilarious he is) - made me admire him, and want to jump his bones 

For me, “new relationship energy” is the thing that makes that early time so electric. 

How long it lasts depends on my attraction and compatibility with a guy. I have had some relationships where it faded quickly - with my husband I would say it lasted longer than any others.


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## Faithful Wife

I shouldnthave said:


> Hum....
> 
> I still desire my husband sexually after 18+ years.
> 
> Is it the same as when we first met? No, I can’t say just looking at him makes me all lusty. It takes a bit more work mentally for me now. I’ll think about sex we have had, or things I want to do with him etc to get the arousal ball rolling.
> 
> Or sometimes it’s totally non sexual things that will re-ignite my attraction. Like recently he was the key speaker at a large event. Seeing a how many people respected him and the way he effortlessly worked a room (and had them laughing so hard - some times I forget how hilarious he is) - made me admire him, and want to jump his bones
> 
> For me, “new relationship energy” is the thing that makes that early time so electric.
> 
> How long it lasts depends on my attraction and compatibility with a guy. I have had some relationships where it faded quickly - with my husband I would say it lasted longer than any others.


Would you consider yourself HD in general?


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## I shouldnthave

Faithful Wife said:


> Would you consider yourself HD in general?


Yes for sure. And I still initiate most of the sex in my marriage. 

I have been the high drive partner in every single relationship I have ever had. 

I am horny (god my Lyft driver yesterday was so hot, and I was ovulating, I could hardly contain myself), but I can’t say that just looking at my husband gets me as hot and bothered as it once did. 

Exception being erections, if I catch a glimpse of a chub I am ready to go (ha!)

I guess I should also qualify my response with the fact I have cheated in the past, and I am very aware of how that “newness” affects my desire.


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## Faithful Wife

I shouldnthave said:


> Yes for sure. And I still initiate most of the sex in my marriage.
> 
> *I have been the high drive partner in every single relationship I have ever had.*
> 
> I am horny (god my Lyft driver yesterday was so hot, and I was ovulating, I could hardly contain myself), but I can’t say that just looking at my husband gets me as hot and bothered as it once did.
> 
> Exception being erections, if I catch a glimpse of a chub I am ready to go (ha!)
> 
> I guess I should also qualify my response with the fact I have cheated in the past, and I am very aware of how that “newness” affects my desire.


And I could have written all of this, too, especially the bolded.

And when I see others hoping their wife will "be like me", I'm like....well....she won't become like me if she isn't already like me. There's no turning into me from some other place. There are people like me who end up repressed, so sometimes it may seem like a woman had a sexual awakening out of nowhere. But if you interview her, you'll find she was having sexual feelings, thoughts and urges, she just repressed them (for whatever reason).

Anyway...sorry...I was just musing on the similarities between us and how it relates to this topic.


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## I shouldnthave

Oh and to answer the rest of your original question more directly. 

For me it’s not a loss of libido, although it can go into a bit of hibernation if neglected. 

It’s the attraction part, which at this stage of the game ebbs and flows. When it’s low, I kinda shove that aside and still get on with it, because I desire sex, and it’s not like he disgusts me or anything - just doesn’t make me as lusty as he used to.

And sometimes it “flows” and I feel the same level of attraction as when we first met. 

In a large part, it’s a mental game for me. So far at least, I haven’t let the “ebbs” get the best of me. I give myself a mind over matter pep talk and then let the physical part take over.


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## Faithful Wife

^^^^
@I shouldnthave is describing behavior patterns that are common to HD people. These are things we seem to do naturally. Since our base line desire is to keep having a lot of sex, we naturally work with what needs to happen through ebbs and flows, but always with the main goal of continuing to get laid. Even if we have to kick our own butts out of a rut. The inclination to do so comes from within.

I don't think LD people are going to have the natural inclination to automatically do these things. 

I also don't think people should try to change who they are. I just think they should try to match better in LTR's.

......

Any other ladies want to help me examine this by sharing their experiences?


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## Red Sonja

Faithful Wife said:


> Any other ladies want to help me examine this by sharing their experiences?


Sure, although I’m not sure I am a good example.

In every LTR I have ever had it was the _man_ who lost desire. I have been “sex starved” all of my life either because of the LTR’s I was involved in or because I am not the type that can be fully sexually responsive in a ONS, NSA, FWB or other such encounter.

Of course, I am the common denominator in the LTRs. I don’t know what that means other than my “picker” or “sexdar” is off.


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## Faithful Wife

Red Sonja said:


> Sure, although I’m not sure I am a good example.
> 
> In every LTR I have ever had it was the _man_ who lost desire. I have been “sex starved” all of my life either because of the LTR’s I was involved in or because I am not the type that can be fully sexually responsive in a ONS, NSA, FWB or other such encounter.
> 
> Of course, I am the common denominator in the LTRs. I don’t know what that means other than my “picker” or “sexdar” is off.


Did he "lose desire", or was he just not able to keep up with you (a tigress)? Or did the sex just taper off?

Or did a man or men straight up say "I'm not into you anymore"?

I'm the common denominator too. I'm naturally HD. Always in LTR's I end up with a higher drive than them, even if his seemed higher at first. This seems to also be true of I Shouldn'thave.

But...my first H, he just stopped wanting to bother with it, because he knew he couldn't give me what I wanted, and because he was essentially LD. So would you call that losing his desire for me? Or just that he was LD? Both? 

These concepts are confusing! Hopeful for more clarification...


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## wild jade

I've lost a lot of desire recently, but then so has my husband.

What caused it is a combo of things. For me, work stress and overall exhaustion, plus my husband has gained a lot of weight. For him, mostly illness and getting older.


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## ConanHub

I shouldnthave said:


> Or sometimes it’s totally non sexual things that will re-ignite my attraction. Like recently he was the key speaker at a large event. Seeing a how many people respected him and the way he effortlessly worked a room (and had them laughing so hard - some times I forget how hilarious he is) - made me admire him, and want to jump his bones


This is a very key point. It was emphasized as observable characteristics in most women in the book What Do Women Want.

Sorry for jumping in FW but this is fascinating stuff.:smile2:


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## lifeistooshort

Anytime this has happened to me it's a direct result of him either treating me poorly or not making much effort.

I've never had a LTR where he's gained a lot of weight but knowing myself I think that would be a pretty big turnoff.

A little extra weight doesn't bother me.


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## lifeistooshort

I shouldnthave said:


> Hum....
> 
> I still desire my husband sexually after 18+ years.
> 
> Is it the same as when we first met? No, I can’t say just looking at him makes me all lusty. It takes a bit more work mentally for me now. I’ll think about sex we have had, or things I want to do with him etc to get the arousal ball rolling.
> 
> Or sometimes it’s totally non sexual things that will re-ignite my attraction. Like recently he was the key speaker at a large event. Seeing a how many people respected him and the way he effortlessly worked a room (and had them laughing so hard - some times I forget how hilarious he is) - made me admire him, and want to jump his bones
> 
> For me, “new relationship energy” is the thing that makes that early time so electric.
> 
> How long it lasts depends on my attraction and compatibility with a guy. I have had some relationships where it faded quickly - with my husband I would say it lasted longer than any others.



I know what you mean.

I recently watched the guy I'm seeing change a light fixture, and just watching him work and get all sweaty from it made him look hot.

I mentioned it to him later and he said something about needing to find more light fixtures to change >

Non sexual things that we associate with being a man are powerful aphrodisiacs


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## 269370

I shouldnthave said:


> Hum....
> 
> 
> 
> I still desire my husband sexually after 18+ years.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it the same as when we first met? No, I can’t say just looking at him makes me all lusty. It takes a bit more work mentally for me now. I’ll think about sex we have had, or things I want to do with him etc to get the arousal ball rolling.
> 
> 
> 
> Or sometimes it’s totally non sexual things that will re-ignite my attraction. Like recently he was the key speaker at a large event. Seeing a how many people respected him and the way he effortlessly worked a room (and had them laughing so hard - some times I forget how hilarious he is) - made me admire him, and want to jump his bones
> 
> 
> 
> For me, “new relationship energy” is the thing that makes that early time so electric.
> 
> 
> 
> How long it lasts depends on my attraction and compatibility with a guy. I have had some relationships where it faded quickly - with my husband I would say it lasted longer than any others.




Just curious: if you had to put a percentage on what attracts you most about your husband: how much of it are his looks and how much is his social status? And how much of it is....HIM?

Have you given some thought how your relationship dynamic might change if he loses his social status (or his looks).

I might be naive in the sense that I feel that the connection in my marriage is beyond such ‘superficial’ things but I don’t want to kid myself either. It’s impossible to stay in your prime, all the time. So I’m just mentally preparing myself for a massive attraction drop at some point...

Doesn’t attraction at some point become more about the person? Rather than what surrounds the person? 

In terms of my wife’s attraction; she never struck me as the type of person who would rip people’s clothes off; though for her, she reaches that level on occasion. I can’t say I feel her attraction diminished over time. If anything, the connection feels deeper and more meaningful than in the past (in case that sounds like bla bla, yes, the ****ing is better too).
I’m away a lot though; yet I think that actually helps the attraction bizarrely (for her, not so much for me; I am attracted more to her when I’m around her). And yes, my attraction to her is still very strong and I do tend to rip clothes which is sometimes an expensive passion..
But I think what makes me love her is something different altogether. I can’t put my finger on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> And I could have written all of this, too, especially the bolded.


You've cheated on a partner/spouse?


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## MJJEAN

I've been with DH 19 years, married 16, and still lust after him as much as the day we met.


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## BioFury

MJJEAN said:


> I've been with DH 19 years, married 16, and still lust after him as much as the day we met.


Could you expound on why? What about him makes your motor run? And has that "what", changed over time? Is there anything that could potentially damage your desire for him?


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> There is statistical data that tells us that over time, women tend to lose their sexual desire for a man in an LTR. The stats also tell us that the man's desire does not go away.


I am not going to jump too much into this topic since it is directed at the ladies here. Not sure if you have access to, but it would be helpful (I think) to see more regarding these stats. Given the rise with more men suffering from low T, I find it hard to believe that man's desire does not go away. Also, men and women who may be closer on the Low Desire spectrum, their desire (or lack) would likely be masked by NRE (which may very well make it harder to come up with accurate stats)


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is statistical data that tells us that over time, women tend to lose their sexual desire for a man in an LTR. The stats also tell us that the man's desire does not go away.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to jump too much into this topic since it is directed at the ladies here. Not sure if you have access to, but it would be helpful (I think) to see more regarding these stats. Given the rise with more men suffering from low T, I find it hard to believe that man's desire does not go away. Also, men and women who may be closer on the Low Desire spectrum, their desire (or lack) would likely be masked by NRE (which may very well make it harder to come up with accurate stats)
Click to expand...

Your points are kind of what I’m getting at too.

What we are seeing here already and that I suspected, is that women who are responding who are HD are more likely the ones to remain HD for one man, and more likely to end up higher D than he is.

Women who are LD are going to be more likely to lose their desire for one man is my suspicion.

Also we know men tend to lie in these types of surveys and so we could assume that some men do lose their desire but won’t admit it. (Their wives do know of course).

I’m looking at the D baseline of both partners here and saying that the mismatch is still the problem.

And I think a tendency to not know what a good match really is due to NRE making almost any new sex seem better than it really is (many times) makes young people think they should couple up with the first person who makes them feel this way.

You will still see many couples come out of the NRE phase still in love. They matched well and it wasn’t just because of NRE.

You will also see older people who have been through this a few times, who know that NRE affects us and we know how to access our real feelings a bit better even in the midst of them.


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## ConanHub

EllisRedding said:


> I am not going to jump too much into this topic since it is directed at the ladies here. Not sure if you have access to, but it would be helpful (I think) to see more regarding these stats. Given the rise with more men suffering from low T, I find it hard to believe that man's desire does not go away. Also, men and women who may be closer on the Low Desire spectrum, their desire (or lack) would likely be masked by NRE (which may very well make it harder to come up with accurate stats)


https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2017/09/16/why-women-are-losing-interest-in-sex-after-a-year/

Here is one study across the pond.


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## EllisRedding

ConanHub said:


> https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2017/09/16/why-women-are-losing-interest-in-sex-after-a-year/
> 
> Here is one study across the pond.


Thanks (although I don't trust the British!). I like this stat:



> odds of finding love at 1 in 285,000


 :grin2: This would seem to indicate that many people are simply picking the wrong person for them (if you believe the odds). I don't want to get too much into it here as I believe FW wanted to keep this thread open for women to discuss their opinion on the matter (we have the other desire thread to discuss  )


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2017/09/16/why-women-are-losing-interest-in-sex-after-a-year/
> 
> Here is one study across the pond.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks (although I don't trust the British!). I like this stat:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> odds of finding love at 1 in 285,000
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a> This would seem to indicate that many people are simply picking the wrong person for them (if you believe the odds). I don't want to get too much into it here as I believe FW wanted to keep this thread open for women to discuss their opinion on the matter (we have the other desire thread to discuss <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a> )
Click to expand...

These are all relevant to both threads.

I think the mismatch is exactly the problem, just as I have always suspected.

Also, HD women are going to tend to keep more desire for one man over time, I believe. All of the couples I know of who both kept their desire high, were both HD.

Though I also know lots of couples who are both middle D or LD, and since they are a good match, they still have a good sex life which is pleasant for both of them (meaning one isn’t wishing for hanging from the chandeliers and feeling unfulfilled).

It seems that a mismatch is almost always going to cause some difficulties. And it seems the percentage of mismatches is huge, thus divorce rates, etc.


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> These are all relevant to both threads.
> 
> I think the mismatch is exactly the problem, just as I have always suspected.
> 
> Also, HD women are going to tend to keep more desire for one man over time, I believe. All of the couples I know of who both kept their desire high, were both HD.
> 
> Though I also know lots of couples who are both middle D or LD, and since they are a good match, they still have a good sex life which is pleasant for both of them (meaning one isn’t wishing for hanging from the chandeliers and feeling unfulfilled).
> 
> It seems that a mismatch is almost always going to cause some difficulties. And it seems the percentage of mismatches is huge, thus divorce rates, etc.


So really, the odds of a mismatch or failure would appear to be rather high, which could then in part explain the higher percentage of people unhappy (whether desire related or other)


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are all relevant to both threads.
> 
> I think the mismatch is exactly the problem, just as I have always suspected.
> 
> Also, HD women are going to tend to keep more desire for one man over time, I believe. All of the couples I know of who both kept their desire high, were both HD.
> 
> Though I also know lots of couples who are both middle D or LD, and since they are a good match, they still have a good sex life which is pleasant for both of them (meaning one isn’t wishing for hanging from the chandeliers and feeling unfulfilled).
> 
> It seems that a mismatch is almost always going to cause some difficulties. And it seems the percentage of mismatches is huge, thus divorce rates, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> So really, the odds of a mismatch or failure would appear to be rather high, which could then in part explain the higher percentage of people unhappy (whether desire related or other)
Click to expand...

That’s what I have always assumed the problem is.

What I never realized before recently was just how hard it is to know what a good match looks like in a new relationship. I don’t think any of us saw that coming before all this data came in.

We all thought that these wonderful tingles and having our head in the clouds meant “this person is the one!”

And some did pick the right one, so we still couldn’t see how and why this works, and how and why it doesn’t.

I am happy people are getting married less often, that they are waiting until later in life to have babies and couple up. I think we are capable of better choices if we have some experience with new relationships that end and then you find out that those “this must be the one!” chemicals actually happen again the next time.

Once you’ve experienced this, it’s easier not to lose your head.


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## lifeistooshort

Faithful Wife said:


> Your points are kind of what I’m getting at too.
> 
> What we are seeing here already and that I suspected, is that women who are responding who are HD are more likely the ones to remain HD for one man, and more likely to end up higher D than he is.
> 
> Women who are LD are going to be more likely to lose their desire for one man is my suspicion.
> 
> Also we know men tend to lie in these types of surveys and so we could assume that some men do lose their desire but won’t admit it. (Their wives do know of course).
> 
> I’m looking at the D baseline of both partners here and saying that the mismatch is still the problem.
> 
> And I think a tendency to not know what a good match really is due to NRE making almost any new sex seem better than it really is (many times) makes young people think they should couple up with the first person who makes them feel this way.
> 
> You will still see many couples come out of the NRE phase still in love. They matched well and it wasn’t just because of NRE.
> 
> You will also see older people who have been through this a few times, who know that NRE affects us and we know how to access our real feelings a bit better even in the midst of them.



I think this is true. LD women either need the rush of a new relationship or were never really into it, but put up with it in order to snag a guy. It's possible that there are men a LD woman could be really attracted to but since sex isn't that important to her she doesn't prioritize it.

Higher drive women will pay more attention to men that turn them on because sex is important to them.


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## Faithful Wife

lifeistooshort said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your points are kind of what I’m getting at too.
> 
> What we are seeing here already and that I suspected, is that women who are responding who are HD are more likely the ones to remain HD for one man, and more likely to end up higher D than he is.
> 
> Women who are LD are going to be more likely to lose their desire for one man is my suspicion.
> 
> Also we know men tend to lie in these types of surveys and so we could assume that some men do lose their desire but won’t admit it. (Their wives do know of course).
> 
> I’m looking at the D baseline of both partners here and saying that the mismatch is still the problem.
> 
> And I think a tendency to not know what a good match really is due to NRE making almost any new sex seem better than it really is (many times) makes young people think they should couple up with the first person who makes them feel this way.
> 
> You will still see many couples come out of the NRE phase still in love. They matched well and it wasn’t just because of NRE.
> 
> You will also see older people who have been through this a few times, who know that NRE affects us and we know how to access our real feelings a bit better even in the midst of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is true. LD women either need the rush of a new relationship or were never really into it, but put up with it in order to snag a guy. It's possible that there are men a LD woman could be really attracted to but since sex isn't that important to her she doesn't prioritize it.
> 
> Higher drive women will pay more attention to men that turn them on because sex is important to them.
Click to expand...

Also, LD men will seem higher drive in the beginning of a relationship. Thus leaving the women not knowing that this is soon going to change.


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## Deejo

Hate to point out the obvious ... but ... again, self selecting audience responding.

I can certainly point to a conversation with my wife about discussion with a group of her girlfriends, whom she asked about sex with husbands, based on her concern over her rapidly crashing libido and knowing very well how I felt about being in a sexless relationship. Alll 5 save one were a hard pass on frequent sex. The one, indicated that she thought their sex life was 'normal'. The others, just not interested. None of the husbands fat, or b!tchy (I've met them).

She quoted my line, "Women don't want to stop having sex. They want to stop having sex with the men they are partnered with." Their response was, No, they just didn't want sex. Period. Too many other things going on. Sex was just something else that someone else was asking of them in the day in and day out of family, work, kids, wanting/demanding of their time.

I'm pretty sure my wife doesn't like having lost her libido. She thinks about it, and she thinks about me ... which goes a long way to preserving harmony. But at the same time, I am crystal clear in understanding that my wife flat out doesn't think about sex, or entertain sexual thoughts on a daily basis as she once did.

FW, you have also indicated over the years that MOST of the women you interact with are high drive. I can only defer to the common factor in that equation, which is ... you. You are a highly sexual (meant as a straight up compliment) and highly sexually aware being. By default I would suspect that you will tend to attract, interact and choose to partner with, other like minded individuals.

Take you outside of that kind of group of people and plunk you smack in the middle of a group East Coast, post 40, PTA\church moms, and I'd bet an Impossible Burger that there would be striking contrast between how they think of, or prioritize sex in their life, versus the way you do.

Please don't get me wrong. I've known you (virtually) for quite some time. I WANT there to be more women who actively think about, and conduct their sex life the way you do. I have met, interacted with and had sex with a number of women who fell into that category. I can also tell you those same women shared with me how much better and robust their sex life became after divorcing.

In contrast, I bet those divorced husbands were somewhere banging someone who was basically saying the same thing to them. That the guys who were duds to their ex-wife, were studs to their new girlfriends.

In sum, I flat out believe that unless you have 2 committed individuals that know how the terrain works, and actively keep it vibrant and fertile, eventually mowing that same lawn (metaphorically) just becomes another task, and the desire to do it wanes.


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## Deejo

lifeistooshort said:


> Higher drive women will pay more attention to men that turn them on because sex is important to them.


LIKE.

I dated a 48 year old who was in amazing shape. Her libido was off the charts. Indicated it always had been and her husband had been LD. She also had a hysterectomy in her late 30's after 2 kids. I couldn't wrap my head around her hyper-sexuality.


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## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> These are all relevant to both threads.
> 
> I think the mismatch is exactly the problem, just as I have always suspected.
> 
> Also, HD women are going to tend to keep more desire for one man over time, I believe. All of the couples I know of who both kept their desire high, were both HD.
> 
> Though I also know lots of couples who are both middle D or LD, and since they are a good match, they still have a good sex life which is pleasant for both of them (meaning one isn’t wishing for hanging from the chandeliers and feeling unfulfilled).
> 
> It seems that a mismatch is almost always going to cause some difficulties. And it seems the percentage of mismatches is huge, thus divorce rates, etc.


This is also getting into responsive vs spontaneous desire. For a woman like my wife, sex is almost akin to eating in that she does not need to see food in order to realize she is hungry. Likewise, she does not need anything external to realize she wants to have sex. Couple that with the fact that she is fiercely loyal, the prospects of her losing her desire to have sex with me due to losing interest over the long term, while not impossible, seems unlikely.


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## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> This is also getting into responsive vs spontaneous desire. For a woman like my wife, sex is almost akin to eating in that she does not need to see food in order to realize she is hungry. Likewise, she does not need anything external to realize she wants to have sex. Couple that with the fact that she is fiercely loyal, the prospects of her losing her desire to have sex with me due to losing interest over the long term, while not impossible, seems unlikely.


Right.

And I think when we see cases of long term sexual success, it is because both are HD (or both match at another level).


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## Faithful Wife

An anecdote about self awareness...

When I was very young and not so self aware, I thought I could be attracted to heavier/chubby guys. I was definitely attracted to a few specific ones (though overall I went for fit guys).

What I learned later via self awareness was that I am actually capable of being *temporarily* fascinated by LOTS of different kinds of bodies, including chubby dudes. But I also learned it would not last for the long run, and found where my actual attraction (versus ability to be fascinated) lies.


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## Faithful Wife

I'll just bow out of the other thread since it seems anything I say is wrong or misguided, according to some. No problem! I did not realize my espousing my own theories would ruffle so many feathers.

I'll stick to this thread. I am stating my opinions. In case anyone needs me to reiterate that. I am not stating facts (unless specified). I am theorizing about sexuality like everyone else does.


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## Faithful Wife

Another random anecdote...NRE is probably why she did it with him but not with you. (ducks)


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## Deejo

Faithful Wife said:


> Another random anecdote...NRE is probably why she did it with him but not with you. (ducks)


No argument there. Part of why once again, I can't understand why either men or women, insist on knowing exactly, in graphic, gruesome detail, what kind of sex their wayward spouse was having.

Sex really is kind of a cosmic sit-com.


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## Faithful Wife

Deejo said:


> No argument there. Part of why once again, I can't understand why either men or women, insist on knowing exactly, in graphic, gruesome detail, what kind of sex their wayward spouse was having.
> 
> Sex really is kind of a cosmic sit-com.


When women try to say that men shouldn't ask and it isn't any of their business, a lot of TAM men come and tell us that it is absolutely their business and that they will dump her if she is lying.

(shrugs)


----------



## ConanHub

Faithful Wife said:


> Another random anecdote...NRE is probably why she did it with him but not with you. (ducks)


I was about to touch this and reconsidered....>


----------



## ConanHub

Faithful Wife said:


> When women try to say that men shouldn't ask and it isn't any of their business, a lot of TAM men come and tell us that it is absolutely their business and that they will dump her if she is lying.
> 
> (shrugs)


The thing is, if we are going long term, I am the guy who likes to know for positive reasons.

Not really a jealous or insecure bone in my body but I have read and understand the hesitancy by women to avoid it.

Women aren't the only ones fed bad sex information growing up.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Deejo said:


> No argument there. Part of why once again, I can't understand why either men or women, insist on knowing exactly, in graphic, gruesome detail, what kind of sex their wayward spouse was having.
> 
> Sex really is kind of a cosmic sit-com.


This is the same reason I think sharing intimate details about exes is a bad idea.

I know from my ridiculously oversharing ex hb how that makes you feel, and that's with exes.

I can only imagine the impact that would have on a betrayed spouse.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Deejo said:


> LIKE.
> 
> I dated a 48 year old who was in amazing shape. Her libido was off the charts. Indicated it always had been and her husband had been LD. She also had a hysterectomy in her late 30's after 2 kids. I couldn't wrap my head around her hyper-sexuality.


Yeah....that's weird that she'd pick a LD guy.


----------



## sokillme

Faithful Wife said:


> Your points are kind of what I’m getting at too.
> 
> What we are seeing here already and that I suspected, is that women who are responding who are HD are more likely the ones to remain HD for one man, and more likely to end up higher D than he is.
> 
> Women who are LD are going to be more likely to lose their desire for one man is my suspicion.
> 
> Also we know men tend to lie in these types of surveys and so we could assume that some men do lose their desire but won’t admit it. (Their wives do know of course).
> 
> I’m looking at the D baseline of both partners here and saying that the mismatch is still the problem.
> 
> And I think a tendency to not know what a good match really is due to NRE making almost any new sex seem better than it really is (many times) makes young people think they should couple up with the first person who makes them feel this way.
> 
> You will still see many couples come out of the NRE phase still in love. They matched well and it wasn’t just because of NRE.
> 
> You will also see older people who have been through this a few times, who know that NRE affects us and we know how to access our real feelings a bit better even in the midst of them.


I would also add the idea that sex can't get better with time and practice. True you need a baseline but their seems to be this idea that your first time is where it is going to always be.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ConanHub said:


> The thing is, if we are going long term, I am the guy who likes to know for positive reasons.
> 
> Not really a jealous or insecure bone in my body but I have read and understand the hesitancy by women to avoid it.
> 
> Women aren't the only ones fed bad sex information growing up.


Yes, and so women will easily tell you if you want to know, because they know you are just gaining info, not prying or trying to use her past against her.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> When women try to say that men shouldn't ask and it isn't any of their business, a lot of TAM men come and tell us that it is absolutely their business and that they will dump her if she is lying.
> 
> (shrugs)


And others found out anyway, even explicitly trying not to find out.


----------



## Deejo

Faithful Wife said:


> When women try to say that men shouldn't ask and it isn't any of their business, a lot of TAM men come and tell us that it is absolutely their business and that they will dump her if she is lying.
> 
> (shrugs)


Obtaining this information without strife (outside the scope of affairs and already deteriorating circumstances) is the difference between a probing demand versus an open, curious conversation. I never demanded details, but always managed to get them ... if only for my own benefit at improving my craft.


----------



## sokillme

EllisRedding said:


> So really, the odds of a mismatch or failure would appear to be rather high, which could then in part explain the higher percentage of people unhappy (whether desire related or other)


See it doesn't have to be if both people have the character to be honest and work on it, it may not be perfect but it can be better then failure. It takes understanding that sex is more then just getting off. If you want the sex it can't always be about YOU getting off. If your partner wants to have sex with you that doesn't mean it's always about them just wanting to get off. This is really different though then how sex is generally thought about. Nor is getting off wrong.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> Women who are LD are going to be more likely to lose their desire for one man is my suspicion.


This is just one anecdote, and second hand at that, so take it for what it's worth. My wife (LD) has been very consistent about two things. 

First, she has been adamant that she has maintained desire throughout the marriage. Not only that, but it took years _even after we were married,_ before she truly felt comfortable and safe enough to really enjoy sex. (given her history prior to me, that isn't all that surprising). So in her mind, there was no loss of attraction, but rather a growth. But of course she has always thought once a week was "a lot" and can't fathom that there are women who truly want more. 

Second, she has stated, and is most sincere in that as of the day she said yes to my proposal, she has never had, nor can she fathom, gaining an interest in another man (not that she doesn't notice if one is attractive). So the idea of finding excitement with someone else is a total non starter. 

Bottom line though here... one example of an LD who didn't lose desire below its already relatively low level. 



Faithful Wife said:


> And I think a tendency to not know what a good match really is due to NRE making almost any new sex seem better than it really is (many times) makes young people think they should couple up with the first person who makes them feel this way.


You may be right. But there's probably an even greater detriment to NRE: lack of experience (which you kind of allude to in the second part of your sentence). Someone who has had many relationships can get NRE, but they at least have the experience to know a little bit about what they are facing. The inexperienced knows nothing of the possibility of mismatches and, even if they did it still wouldn't help, because they are too inexperienced to know what they really want themselves, let alone properly assess their partner. Hopefully this will become less of a problem as we move beyond the shame and judgment of sex before wedlock.


----------



## sokillme

samyeagar said:


> This is also getting into responsive vs spontaneous desire. For a woman like my wife, sex is almost akin to eating in that she does not need to see food in order to realize she is hungry. Likewise, she does not need anything external to realize she wants to have sex. Couple that with the fact that she is fiercely loyal, the prospects of her losing her desire to have sex with me due to losing interest over the long term, while not impossible, seems unlikely.


Seems you married a unicorn.


----------



## sokillme

Deejo said:


> No argument there. Part of why once again, I can't understand why either men or women, insist on knowing exactly, in graphic, gruesome detail, what kind of sex their wayward spouse was having.
> 
> Sex really is kind of a cosmic sit-com.


You can't understand wanting to know the details, I can't understand why they stay in the first place.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Women who are LD are going to be more likely to lose their desire for one man is my suspicion.
> 
> 
> 
> This is just one anecdote, and second hand at that, so take it for what it's worth. My wife (LD) has been very consistent about two things.
> 
> First, she has been adamant that she has maintained desire throughout the marriage. Not only that, but it took years _even after we were married,_ before she truly felt comfortable and safe enough to really enjoy sex. (given her history prior to me, that isn't all that surprising). So in her mind, there was no loss of attraction, but rather a growth. But of course she has always thought once a week was "a lot" and can't fathom that there are women who truly want more.
> 
> Second, she has stated, and is most sincere in that as of the day she said yes to my proposal, she has never had, nor can she fathom, gaining an interest in another man (not that she doesn't notice if one is attractive). So the idea of finding excitement with someone else is a total non starter.
> 
> Bottom line though here... one example of an LD who didn't lose desire below its already relatively low level.
> 
> 
> 
> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I think a tendency to not know what a good match really is due to NRE making almost any new sex seem better than it really is (many times) makes young people think they should couple up with the first person who makes them feel this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You may be right. But there's probably an even greater detriment to NRE: lack of experience (which you kind of allude to in the second part of your sentence). Someone who has had many relationships can get NRE, but they at least have the experience to know a little bit about what they are facing. The inexperienced knows nothing of the possibility of mismatches and, even if they did it still wouldn't help, because they are too inexperienced to know what they really want themselves, let alone properly assess their partner. Hopefully this will become less of a problem as we move beyond the shame and judgment of sex before wedlock.
Click to expand...

I would point out that you are a tall athletic 20%er and that you have not lost your bod during marriage.

Correlation?

If you had become apple shaped, do you believe she would have never ever felt desire for another man (just meaning desire, not cheating)?


----------



## sokillme

Faithful Wife said:


> When women try to say that men shouldn't ask and it isn't any of their business, a lot of TAM men come and tell us that it is absolutely their business and that they will dump her if she is lying.
> 
> (shrugs)


In fairness that would be SI men, most TAM men tell them to move on. I have never said try to learn the details I have told them to GTFO.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> I would point out that you are a tall athletic 20%er and that you have not lost your bod during marriage.
> 
> Correlation?
> 
> If you had become apple shaped, do you believe she would have never ever felt desire for another man (just meaning desire, not cheating)?


Good questions.

I'm sure it also doesn't hurt that I'm a gourmet chef and give killer back massages. (extra points for unusually large, strong hands)


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would point out that you are a tall athletic 20%er and that you have not lost your bod during marriage.
> 
> Correlation?
> 
> If you had become apple shaped, do you believe she would have never ever felt desire for another man (just meaning desire, not cheating)?
> 
> 
> 
> Good questions.
> 
> I'm sure it also doesn't hurt that I'm a gourmet chef and give killer back massages. (extra points for unusually large, strong hands)
Click to expand...

Hands. I been sayin.


----------



## samyeagar

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Good questions.
> 
> I'm sure it also doesn't hurt that I'm a gourmet chef and give killer back massages. (extra points for unusually large, strong hands)


While I may not be over six feet tall, I do have proportionately broad shoulders with a killer tight ass in jeans, can cook, give strong deep massages, clean the ever loving hell out of the house and laundry, and my wife's friends regularly tell her how awesome I am. The only thing that really means is that I would not have any problems finding another woman. My wife's particular sexual nature, as opposed to anything about me personally or in particular, is why I am pretty confident in her continued desire to have sex with me. I enhance what is already there, but am certainly not the cause of it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would point out that you are a tall athletic 20%er and that you have not lost your bod during marriage.
> 
> Correlation?
> 
> If you had become apple shaped, do you believe she would have never ever felt desire for another man (just meaning desire, not cheating)?
> 
> 
> 
> Good questions.
> 
> I'm sure it also doesn't hurt that I'm a gourmet chef and give killer back massages. (extra points for unusually large, strong hands)
Click to expand...

More specifically...I think naturally LD men and women will always need to have an internal reason to keep their drive a bit higher, if they are partners with an HD person they love and also, many LDs definitely do want sex (on their schedule). So they have to work with their bodies a bit to keep up. If they are in a happy relationship, this seems to be worth it. But....

I also don’t want to shame or insult any LD person who does love their HD spouse but is not wanting the same sex life as he or she wants. I think some LD just can’t do it, or their spouse is really lousy, or the LD is too repressed to do it. Or they may be too inexperienced (even if married for decades) to know what to do and that’s not a cop out. Or so many other reasons.

In your case it was obvious to me that she is truly LD. Along with that comes the fairly low amount of flexibility with script, and very specific ideas about what sex is, etc.

If she were to slowly become a bit less repressed (this would have to be her idea and her own inner work) she may find that she likes a few things off the script.

But I don’t think she would become a different sexual person at her core. She knows she likes and wants you in that very vanilla but yummy way! She probably really doesn’t have much curiosity about other things.

If she does, they are minor and she is not so repressed that there is some huge sex beast in there. She’s a lovely, healthy, LD woman in love with her sexy husband. 

I have spent a lot of time studying the lower end of the spectrum and asexuality. It helps me because I’m unable to feel what they feel, but I gain empathy by trying. And the main thing I learned is that LD’s get a lot of haters. Which is sad.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> Rocky Mountain Yeti said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good questions.
> 
> I'm sure it also doesn't hurt that I'm a gourmet chef and give killer back massages. (extra points for unusually large, strong hands)
> 
> 
> 
> While I may not be over six feet tall, I do have proportionately broad shoulders with a killer tight ass in jeans, can cook, give strong deep massages, clean the ever loving hell out of the house and laundry, and my wife's friends regularly tell her how awesome I am. The only thing that really means is that I would not have any problems finding another woman. My wife's particular sexual nature, as opposed to anything about me personally or in particular, is why I am pretty confident in her continued desire to have sex with me. I enhance what is already there, but am certainly not the cause of it.
Click to expand...

Sam
You beat me to it. Was gonna come talk about your sexy ass (literally and joking) too.

Sexy men like you pull the babes no matter the height.

But when I addressed Rocky I was talking about his wife. And we know she picked him in part because she has a height preference...I think she is also almost six feet tall? Remind me Rocky. So in my specific answer to him, I included his height.

Like for you, I would say something like, yes of course your wife still digs you, because you’re a gymnast and hot AF. Just like when she met you.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

samyeagar said:


> While I may not be over six feet tall, I do have proportionately broad shoulders with a killer tight ass in jeans, can cook, give strong deep massages, clean the ever loving hell out of the house and laundry, and my wife's friends regularly tell her how awesome I am. The only thing that really means is that I would not have any problems finding another woman. My wife's particular sexual nature, as opposed to anything about me personally or in particular, is why I am pretty confident in her continued desire to have sex with me. I enhance what is already there, but am certainly not the cause of it.


Yes. Sadly this is not a balanced equation.

While there is plenty we can do to kill what might already be there, there is little if anything we can do to create what doesn't already exist.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> Sam
> You beat me to it. Was gonna come talk about your sexy ass (literally and joking) too.
> 
> Sexy men like you pull the babes no matter the height.
> 
> But when I addressed Rocky I was talking about his wife. And we know she picked him in part because she has a height preference...I think she is also almost six feet tall? Remind me Rocky. So in my specific answer to him, I included his height.
> 
> Like for you, I would say something like, yes of course your wife still digs you, because you’re a gymnast and hot AF. Just like when she met you.


She's taller than average, but not that tall. 5'7".


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sam
> You beat me to it. Was gonna come talk about your sexy ass (literally and joking) too.
> 
> Sexy men like you pull the babes no matter the height.
> 
> But when I addressed Rocky I was talking about his wife. And we know she picked him in part because she has a height preference...I think she is also almost six feet tall? Remind me Rocky. So in my specific answer to him, I included his height.
> 
> Like for you, I would say something like, yes of course your wife still digs you, because you’re a gymnast and hot AF. Just like when she met you.
> 
> 
> 
> She's taller than average, but not that tall. 5'7".
Click to expand...

Yeah that’s 5’10” in heels.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> Yeah that’s 5’10” in heels.


'cept she don't do heels. 

No worries, it's not a fetish of mine anyway.


----------



## I shouldnthave

InMyPrime said:


> Just curious: if you had to put a percentage on what attracts you most about your husband: how much of it are his looks and how much is his social status? And how much of it is....HIM?


I am bad at quantifying these things into numbers, but if forced, I would say 5% status, 25% looks, and 70% HIM. 

You see we met when we were 21 and 23. Status? There was no "status" - we were both young and broke.

Through the years I consistently earn more than him, right now I make about 2.5 times what he does. The other night wasn't so much "status" but the show of his dynamic personality. 

Looks? I always thought he was handsome, he has much less hair now than when I met him. Through the years his weight has fluctuated 60 pounds up and down. I didn't find that the weigh affected my attraction much. Right now he is a few pounds heavier than when I met him 20 years ago, but not a lot. Either way, its okay. 

I don't easily connect with people emotionally. Throughout my life I have been accused of being cold and unemotional. I don't throw around the L word.... but he is the only person I have connected with on a very deep level. We can be extremely vulnerable to each other. We had similarly troubled up bringings etc, and can just understand each other in a way I didn't think was possible. He knows my deepest darkest, most shameful secrets, and his are safe with me. No one else on this planet knows me like he does, and I am pretty sure he could say the same of me. 



InMyPrime said:


> Have you given some thought how your relationship dynamic might change if he loses his social status (or his looks).


Not really, as it wasn't his status nor his looks that first attracted me to him. He has an extremely high IQ (I can't suffer a fool) yet also has excellent social skills. Seems like many men I have met have one or the other. He understands and loves me, and I understand and love him. That is what has made it work. 



InMyPrime said:


> I might be naive in the sense that I feel that the connection in my marriage is beyond such ‘superficial’ things but I don’t want to kid myself either. It’s impossible to stay in your prime, all the time. So I’m just mentally preparing myself for a massive attraction drop at some point...
> 
> Doesn’t attraction at some point become more about the person? Rather than what surrounds the person?


While I agree, that attraction is about the person, and not what surrounds them (I think you grossly misunderstood where I was coming from in my post). But here is the thing... for me, and what I think the article that this is a spin off of was pointing too...

I don't find comfort, and even emotional attachment EXCITING. They do not sexually excite me. Sure, a lovely romantic evening with the man I love deeply can make me feel connected, and sexual in a romantic way - which includes attraction. But its different. 

I will also qualify this by saying I hear that many women desire, or even need an emotional connection to have satisfying sex. They strongly desire "love making".

I have always felt that I was wired a bit differently. There is actually something about no strings attached, no emotional involvement FWB type relationships that I find thrilling. They excite me greatly.... Sex without the complication of relationships or emotion? Yes please. 

I know in this world you can't have your cake and eat it to. If I could wave some magic wand and have a new boy friend or two every year, while still having loving, emotionally connected sex filled primary relationship, I would. 

But I know you can't have it both ways, and given the choice between a variety of sex partners, and a deep and caring relationship - I choose the later.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Sam
> You beat me to it. Was gonna come talk about your sexy ass (literally and joking) too.
> 
> Sexy men like you pull the babes no matter the height.
> 
> But when I addressed Rocky I was talking about his wife. And we know she picked him in part because she has a height preference...I think she is also almost six feet tall? Remind me Rocky. So in my specific answer to him, I included his height.
> 
> Like for you, I would say something like, yes of course your wife still digs you, because you’re a gymnast and hot AF. Just like when she met you.


Complete side not here, but over easter, we were all at a park with young nieces and nephews. My wife has seen me do some floor exercises, but never anything on any apparatus. The playground had a set of rings, and I played around a bit on them. The kicker is, she was more impressed that I could hold a handstand than the fact that I held an iron cross for four seconds


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

samyeagar said:


> Complete side not here, but over easter, we were all at a park with young nieces and nephews. My wife has seen me do some floor exercises, but never anything on any apparatus. The playground had a set of rings, and I played around a bit on them. The kicker is, she was more impressed that I could hold a handstand than the fact that I held an iron cross for four seconds


In any sport, laypeople or casual fans rarely know the degree of difficulty attached to certain feats. 

Everybody thinks handstands are cool. Few know the strength and balance required to hold an iron cross.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

LD get haters because more of them tend to have no desire to even make an attempt at feeling what damage they are doing to their partners. The LD spouse walks around like you are the problem in the relationship. Excuse after excuse, reason after reason. "If you were more X I would be turned on more" "its hard to get turned on when the house is dirty" or whatever they need to dream up to tell their HD spouse how it is all their fault. 

Meanwhile the HD partner is reading books, discussing the issue online with others, trying to bend and twist and mold into whatever shape the LD spouse asks of you that day. They try being more available, then less available, clean the house spotless, do all the chores, then do none of them as that didn't work. They keep on because somehow, the LD spouse always convinces the HD spouse that its the HD spouse that is the problem with their sex life. Its something wrong with them. 

So you have two people. One who is desperately trying to understand their spouses feelings. One who attempts to put themselves in their shoes daily. A tick to the left, a tick to the right... Just trying anything to connect and make their partner feel good about themselves and perhaps with that, open up a little more in the bedroom or be at least a little more receptive to sexual passes. While the other spouse tends to cast blame, doesn't care about how they make their spouses feel, doesn't care enough to even make a single attempt at improving an area that is destroying your own marriage. Meanwhile they throw in little daggers "you only care about sex" and similar remarks that only add gas to a fire that is about to roast this marriage. 

So yeah, a lot of LD spouses get hate. Typically the spouse putting in zero work on a particularly destructive issue will be the ones to receive the hate as a general rule.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> Complete side not here, but over easter, we were all at a park with young nieces and nephews. My wife has seen me do some floor exercises, but never anything on any apparatus. The playground had a set of rings, and I played around a bit on them. The kicker is, she was more impressed that I could hold a handstand than the fact that I held an iron cross for four seconds


(rolls eyes) yeah - non gymnasts and their assessment of what is "hard" and what is "easy". 

but anyway.....SWOON!!!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> In any sport, laypeople or casual fans rarely know the degree of difficulty attached to certain feats.
> 
> Everybody thinks handstands are cool. Few know the strength and balance required to hold an iron cross.


Everybody should try each once to find out.

Almost anyone can kick their feet up and try to get them over their own head (not balanced but in the air somewhere, at least a donkey kick, which is the first skill in learning handstands).

Almost no one can hold an iron cross at all.


----------



## ConanHub

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Good questions.
> 
> I'm sure it also doesn't hurt that I'm a gourmet chef and give killer back massages. (extra points for unusually large, strong hands)


You had me at gourmet chef!❤:grin2:


----------



## samyeagar

TheDudeLebowski said:


> LD get haters because more of them tend to have no desire to even make an attempt at feeling what damage they are doing to their partners. The LD spouse walks around like you are the problem in the relationship. Excuse after excuse, reason after reason. "If you were more X I would be turned on more" "its hard to get turned on when the house is dirty" or whatever they need to dream up to tell their HD spouse how it is all their fault.
> 
> Meanwhile the HD partner is reading books, discussing the issue online with others, trying to bend and twist and mold into whatever shape the LD spouse asks of you that day. They try being more available, then less available, clean the house spotless, do all the chores, then do none of them as that didn't work. They keep on because somehow, the LD spouse always convinces the HD spouse that its the HD spouse that is the problem with their sex life. Its something wrong with them.
> 
> So you have two people. One who is desperately trying to understand their spouses feelings. One who attempts to put themselves in their shoes daily. A tick to the left, a tick to the right... Just trying anything to connect and make their partner feel good about themselves and perhaps with that, open up a little more in the bedroom or be at least a little more receptive to sexual passes. While the other spouse tends to cast blame, doesn't care about how they make their spouses feel, doesn't care enough to even make a single attempt at improving an area that is destroying your own marriage. Meanwhile they throw in little daggers "you only care about sex" and similar remarks that only add gas to a fire that is about to roast this marriage.
> 
> So yeah, a lot of LD spouses get hate. Typically the spouse putting in zero work on a particularly destructive issue will be the ones to receive the hate as a general rule.


So much of this is prevailing conventional wisdom that is passed around, and is not all together unheard of, though I think most people are coming at it backwards, and touches on what Rocky said a bit earlier...plenty of way to kill desire, but nigh on impossible to build beyond what is naturally there.

Cleaning the house won't get you laid, but not cleaning it virtually guarantees you won't. Most interpret that as black and white if...then zero sum. If I don't clean the house, I won't get laid, therefore, if I do clean the house, I will get laid.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> Everybody should try each once to find out.
> 
> Almost anyone can kick their feet up and try to get them over their own head (not balanced but in the air somewhere, at least a donkey kick, which is the first skill in learning handstands).
> 
> Almost no one can hold an iron cross at all.


Yep.

I have exceptionally good upper body strength and if I was to try to hold an iron cross, I'm sure I would end up tearing, or at least pulling something important :surprise:

(I also have disproportionately long arms, which doesn't help)

Accomplished gymnasts are a breed apart. Oh, and if you're looking for a V, look no further. Nobody in the world, including world class athletes of all other types, get the V a gymnast gets. It's like stacking the chest measurement of a professional powerlifter on top of the waist measurement of a jockey. Those dudes have incredible builds.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Everybody should try each once to find out.
> 
> Almost anyone can kick their feet up and try to get them over their own head (not balanced but in the air somewhere, at least a donkey kick, which is the first skill in learning handstands).
> 
> Almost no one can hold an iron cross at all.


I had mixed feeling about it because on the on hand, my personal best is nine seconds, so I am at less than half that. On the other hand, I am just a few years shy of 50 and have not trained in years, so the fact that I could hold it at all...


----------



## samyeagar

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Yep.
> 
> I have exceptionally good upper body strength and if I was to try to hold an iron cross, I'm sure I would end up tearing, or at least pulling something important :surprise:
> 
> (I also have disproportionately long arms, which doesn't help)
> 
> Accomplished gymnasts are a breed apart. Oh, and if you're looking for a V, look no further. Nobody in the world, including world class athletes of all other types, get the V a gymnast gets. It's like stacking the chest measurement of a professional powerlifter on top of the waist measurement of a jockey. Those dudes have incredible builds.


Ok, I have to stop with derailing this thread...but, I have it much easier than some in the fact that I have a fairly compact 5'7" frame to begin with, and always found it easy to build disproportionately strong upper body muscle without massive bulk, which is what male gymnastics depends on moreso than lower body.


----------



## Faithful Wife

you guys are killing me over here..........have mercy!!!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ok actually I'm going to take this thread on a little side spin....not really relevant, but we just made it so!

For anyone....

Can you do a head stand?

Can you do a hand stand?

Can you do a cartwheel?

Can you do a one handed cartwheel?

Can you do an aerial cartwheel?

Can you do a back limber or back walkover? (if you have to ask, then no)

Can you do a front limber or walkover? One handed?

Can you do a front or back handspring?

A round off back handspring?

A back tuck? Front tuck? Back or front layout? Whip back? Standing? 

.........

If you can't do these now but could at one time, which could you do back then?


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

samyeagar said:


> So much of this is prevailing conventional wisdom that is passed around, and is not all together unheard of, though I think most people are coming at it backwards, and touches on what Rocky said a bit earlier...plenty of way to kill desire, but nigh on impossible to build beyond what is naturally there.
> 
> Cleaning the house won't get you laid, but not cleaning it virtually guarantees you won't. Most interpret that as black and white if...then zero sum. If I don't clean the house, I won't get laid, therefore, if I do clean the house, I will get laid.


Its not about the house cleaning in the end. Its about sexual compatibility and one partner trying to do everything they can to get to a liveable place in that realm. While the other does absolutely nothing. Not a single finger lifted, except of course to point that finger at their spouse as the issue. Besides, once the house is spotless, the low drive spouse has an arsenal of excuses and "reasons" at their disposal just waiting to be deployed and turn the HD spouse down again. Maybe throw a little salt in there this time and make a comment about how they failed to meet their standards in some other area that day. 

Yeah, can't figure out why LD spouses get hate lol. Truth is you see a lot of HD people just in this thread who seem to have a decent understanding of the LD spouse. They can empathize. I have yet to personally see any LD people ever attempt to understand how a HD person feels without sex. If they did, I probably don't know they are LD and their spouse is HD because their marriage is going great. Go figure.


----------



## ConanHub

TheDudeLebowski said:


> LD get haters because more of them tend to have no desire to even make an attempt at feeling what damage they are doing to their partners. The LD spouse walks around like you are the problem in the relationship. Excuse after excuse, reason after reason. "If you were more X I would be turned on more" "its hard to get turned on when the house is dirty" or whatever they need to dream up to tell their HD spouse how it is all their fault.
> 
> Meanwhile the HD partner is reading books, discussing the issue online with others, trying to bend and twist and mold into whatever shape the LD spouse asks of you that day. They try being more available, then less available, clean the house spotless, do all the chores, then do none of them as that didn't work. They keep on because somehow, the LD spouse always convinces the HD spouse that its the HD spouse that is the problem with their sex life. Its something wrong with them.
> 
> So you have two people. One who is desperately trying to understand their spouses feelings. One who attempts to put themselves in their shoes daily. A tick to the left, a tick to the right... Just trying anything to connect and make their partner feel good about themselves and perhaps with that, open up a little more in the bedroom or be at least a little more receptive to sexual passes. While the other spouse tends to cast blame, doesn't care about how they make their spouses feel, doesn't care enough to even make a single attempt at improving an area that is destroying your own marriage. Meanwhile they throw in little daggers "you only care about sex" and similar remarks that only add gas to a fire that is about to roast this marriage.
> 
> So yeah, a lot of LD spouses get hate. Typically the spouse putting in zero work on a particularly destructive issue will be the ones to receive the hate as a general rule.


Did this happen to you?


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok actually I'm going to take this thread on a little side spin....not really relevant, but we just made it so!
> 
> For anyone....
> 
> Can you do a head stand?
> 
> Can you do a hand stand?
> 
> Can you do a cartwheel?
> 
> Can you do a one handed cartwheel?
> 
> Can you do an aerial cartwheel?
> 
> Can you do a back limber or back walkover? (if you have to ask, then no)
> 
> Can you do a front limber or walkover? One handed?
> 
> Can you do a front or back handspring?
> 
> A round off back handspring?
> 
> A back tuck? Front tuck? Back or front layout? Whip back? Standing?
> 
> .........
> 
> If you can't do these now but could at one time, which could you do back then?


Never could do an aerial cartwheel and keep the straight line in the landing, and oddly always found the back handspring a bit harder than the front, but the rest of the list, yeah, I could do back in the day, and could probably do most of them still today. I may have to try some of these out again here soon 

My wife thinks it's pretty cool watching me do either front or back somersault into a handstand


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> Never could do an aerial cartwheel and keep the straight line in the landing, and oddly always found the back handspring a bit harder than the front, but the rest of the list, yeah, I could do back in the day, and could probably do most of them still today. I may have to try some of these out again here soon
> 
> My wife thinks it's pretty cool watching me do either front or back somersault into a handstand


Right on!!

Oh I forgot to add aerial walkover and back layout kick out! Ha ha!

I love a clean back extension roll, with straight arms. A really cool skill!


----------



## samyeagar

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Its not about the house cleaning in the end. Its about sexual compatibility and one partner trying to do everything they can to get to a liveable place in that realm. While the other does absolutely nothing. Not a single finger lifted, except of course to point that finger at their spouse as the issue. Besides, once the house is spotless, the low drive spouse has an arsenal of excuses and "reasons" at their disposal just waiting to be deployed and turn the HD spouse down again. Maybe throw a little salt in there this time and make a comment about how they failed to meet their standards in some other area that day.
> 
> Yeah, can't figure out why LD spouses get hate lol. Truth is you see a lot of HD people just in this thread who seem to have a decent understanding of the LD spouse. They can empathize. I have yet to personally see any LD people ever attempt to understand how a HD person feels without sex. If they did, I probably don't know they are LD and their spouse is HD because their marriage is going great. Go figure.


This describes in detail the bill of goods that many people insist on buying into...that there is some sequence of hoops that when jumped through correctly, magic will happen. Unfortunately, I think a lot of LD people honestly believe that too, which I think makes the mismatch even more difficult to overcome, since in most case, I don't think it is intentional. Intent can be changed, basic nature can't.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

samyeagar said:


> This describes in detail the bill of goods that many people insist on buying into...that there is some sequence of hoops that when jumped through correctly, magic will happen. Unfortunately, I think a lot of LD people honestly believe that too, which I think makes the mismatch even more difficult to overcome, since in most case, I don't think it is intentional. Intent can be changed, basic nature can't.


Well I don't have as much faith in their intentions. I don't believe a LD spouse has any intent to have sex with their spouse, other than to shut them up from time to time. Some don't even have that! If they had any intent to have sex, they would. Simple as that. They don't want sex. Period. But they know they can use sex as a tool. So they do. The HD spouse is all too ready to give them all the power. That's HD spouses issue. 

The only thing that bugs me about some HD people is the whole "who initiates" thing. Who cares? Are y'all having sex? Yes! Ok then, stfu and stop being a baby about being the one who initiates. Jesus, if that is your issue with your sex life is that you have to initiate 99% of the time and you're having sex all the time, WTF is the problem exactly? Then they want to call their spouse LD and everything else and simply stop initiating sex all together. Dumbasses


----------



## samyeagar

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Well I don't have as much faith in their intentions. I don't believe a LD spouse has any intent to have sex with their spouse, other than to shut them up from time to time. Some don't even have that! If they had any intent to have sex, they would. Simple as that. They don't want sex. Period. But they know they can use sex as a tool. So they do. The HD spouse is all too ready to give them all the power. That's HD spouses issue.
> 
> The only thing that bugs me about some HD people is the whole "who initiates" thing. Who cares? Are y'all having sex? Yes! Ok then, stfu and stop being a baby about being the one who initiates. Jesus, if that is your issue with your sex life is that you have to initiate 99% of the time and you're having sex all the time, WTF is the problem exactly? Then they want to call their spouse LD and everything else and simply stop initiating sex all together. Dumbasses


This is coming from an HD spouse with an HD spouse so take it for what that's worth, but with regards to initiation...

I agree that initiation should not matter to someone who just wants to have sex. For others, having their partner initiate is a type of validation that expresses desire for the person, and outward expression of that desire is important to a lot of people. I think in a lot of cases, perceived lack of initiation comes down to communication, and learning how ones partner actually initiates vs just looking for what one wants to look for.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

samyeagar said:


> This is coming from an HD spouse with an HD spouse so take it for what that's worth, but with regards to initiation...
> 
> I agree that initiation should not matter to someone who just wants to have sex. For others, having their partner initiate is a type of validation that expresses desire for the person, and outward expression of that desire is important to a lot of people. I think in a lot of cases, perceived lack of initiation comes down to communication, and learning how ones partner actually initiates vs just looking for what one wants to look for.


I think that's being childish. If you look at all aspects of your marriage outside of the bedroom, I'm sure there's a plethora of acts and deeds your spouse does for you daily that shows their desire for you. Not to mention, if they always say yes, you shouldn't have questions about their sexual desires for you when they are riding you every night. Fragile ego is a play I suspect with these people.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TheDudeLebowski said:


> The only thing that bugs me about some HD people is the whole "who initiates" thing. Who cares? Are y'all having sex? Yes! Ok then, stfu and stop being a baby about being the one who initiates. Jesus, if that is your issue with your sex life is that you have to initiate 99% of the time and you're having sex all the time, WTF is the problem exactly? Then they want to call their spouse LD and everything else and simply stop initiating sex all together. Dumbasses


Love it.


----------



## samyeagar

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I think that's being childish. If you look at all aspects of your marriage outside of the bedroom, I'm sure there's a plethora of acts and deeds your spouse does for you daily that shows their desire for you. Not to mention, if they always say yes, you shouldn't have questions about their sexual desires for you when they are riding you every night. Fragile ego is a play I suspect with these people.


And now we are really getting into love languages territory. For me, I don't feel any kind of love or desire from a clean house and cooked dinner and other acts of service. Yet my wife feels very loved by me if I notice she has an empty drink and get her another one. Makes no sense to me, but then again, it doesn't have to. It just is.


----------



## I shouldnthave

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I think that's being childish. If you look at all aspects of your marriage outside of the bedroom, I'm sure there's a plethora of acts and deeds your spouse does for you daily that shows their desire for you. Not to mention, if they always say yes, you shouldn't have questions about their sexual desires for you when they are riding you every night. Fragile ego is a play I suspect with these people.


I don’t know.... I have never been accused of having a fragile ego. 

But I LOVE feeling sexually desired. Sometimes I am not sure what I like more, sex or feeling desired, an object of lust. 

I miss it woefully when I am doing all the chasing, all the desiring, the lusting, the wanting. 

It’s kinda like having a conversation with someone who just nods their head, vs someone who engages and seems intrigued by the conversation. 

As for the “plethora of things they do daily to show desire” I don’t know about that. 

For me, care, concern, and even love are not the same as sexual desire. My spouse can do many things in a day that shows he cares about me, or loves me - but those same things do not translate to lusting after me. And do not fulfill me in the same way. 

Maybe I am a belly aching whiner because my husband will oblige when I make it clear that I want sex - but I can tell you that sort of engagement doesn’t satisfy me nearly as much as when he lusts for me. 

Not even close, not by a long shot. 

So I understand where many men are coming from when they say that they wish their partners would show them they they are desired sexually, not just performing out of some sort of obligation.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

samyeagar said:


> And now we are really getting into love languages territory. For me, I don't feel any kind of love or desire from a clean house and cooked dinner and other acts of service. Yet my wife feels very loved by me if I notice she has an empty drink and get her another one. Makes no sense to me, but then again, it doesn't have to. It just is.


Well I don't believe in love languages. They're all too situational.


----------



## I shouldnthave

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Well I don't believe in love languages. They're all too situational.


Situational?

Please explain. For me, physical touch has always been #1. And I have never cared for gifts, really dislike them for the most part!

While I know others who have consistently different priorities.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> So I understand where many men are coming from when they say that they wish their partners would show them they they are desired sexually, *not just performing out of some sort of obligation.*



If you can't tell weather or not they are performing out of desire or obligation, then you've only ever had sex with that person when they were desiring you, or out of obligation for you. You haven't had both. You can tell there's a difference during the act. Which most likely means if your sex life is good, its out of desire not obligation that he mounts you whenever you initiate.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I shouldnthave said:


> I don’t know.... I have never been accused of having a fragile ego.
> 
> But I LOVE feeling sexually desired. Sometimes I am not sure what I like more, sex or feeling desired, an object of lust.
> 
> I miss it woefully when I am doing all the chasing, all the desiring, the lusting, the wanting.
> 
> It’s kinda like having a conversation with someone who just nods their head, vs someone who engages and seems intrigued by the conversation.
> 
> As for the “plethora of things they do daily to show desire” I don’t know about that.
> 
> For me, care, concern, and even love are not the same as sexual desire. My spouse can do many things in a day that shows he cares about me, or loves me - but those same things do not translate to lusting after me. And do not fulfill me in the same way.
> 
> Maybe I am a belly aching whiner because my husband will oblige when I make it clear that I want sex - but I can tell you that sort of engagement doesn’t satisfy me nearly as much as when he lusts for me.
> 
> Not even close, not by a long shot.
> 
> So I understand where many men are coming from when they say that they wish their partners would show them they they are desired sexually, not just performing out of some sort of obligation.


Oh dang....sister. I didn't realize you are with an LD man. Oh man....how are you holding up? I didn't realize this before, so that changes how I'm reading your answers a bit.

Super sorry!

Does he work on it with you/for you?


----------



## I shouldnthave

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh dang....sister. I didn't realize you are with an LD man. Oh man....how are you holding up? I didn't realize this before, so that changes how I'm reading your answers a bit.
> 
> Super sorry!
> 
> Does he work on it with you/for you?


Oh I wouldn’t say he is categorically LD. 

Like I said earlier, it ebbs and flows. There are ups and downs. Some periods where he is lusting after me all the time, naughty texts throughout the day, times where I can’t get through the front door before he is all over me. There are times when his drive seems higher than mine. Those periods I love. 

And periods where I have to do all the initiating, chasing, and lusting. Which, honestly sucks and sometimes if I am not getting a lot of positive response, my libido will eventually go into hibernation. 

Our sex life definately has ups and downs. 

And unlike what the dude seems to insist. It’s not all black and white. It’s not an either or. I have had both, and there is most certainly a HUGE difference. 

As for my spouse, if I clearly communicate it’s a problem for me, he works on it. It’s a balancing act. 

Remember, I have cheated, so I strive not to make him insecure, so I use my “I need you to lust after me more” requests judiciously. 

But it is something we can talk about candidly. I can tell him why I need it, how it makes me feel etc.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> Situational?
> 
> Please explain. For me, physical touch has always been #1. And I have never cared for gifts, really dislike them for the most part!
> 
> While I know others who have consistently different priorities.


They can change with the weather. My wife can say how gifts do nothing for her in terms of love languages, but if I fail to get her flowers for Valentine's day, she has gotten pissy. She felt like I dismissed some thing we always did. She gets flowers I get chocolates. So she felt hurt, but she will tell you over and over receiving gifts does nothing for her.

Or lets say we are together all day every day for a month but I don't do **** around the house. Well, suddenly her quality time love language turns into "you need to get off your ass! I don't feel loved when you don't care enough to even pick up after yourself" 

Or lets say we are having sex every day, but I haven't said anything nice about her in a while, suddenly she needs some words of affirmation. Her physical touch language now takes a backseat to words of affirmation. 

Different stages in life, different challenges, and different environments change a person's emotional needs at different times. So the premises of love languages that's being taught becomes nonsense to me. That there's some simple quiz you take together to solve communication issues or to enable better understanding of one another's needs. I don't buy it. 

Its a good thing to understand and have a grasp of so you don't become complacen as a spouse, but I don't believe people are one or two language speakers. I think everyone speaks all 5 and importance is placed on different ones at different times for different reasons for literally everyone.


----------



## I shouldnthave

^^^ I would say that’s an example of black and white thinking. Of course it’s not all or nothing. 

If someone’s #1 love language is acts of service, it doesn’t mean that they would be happy if they were never touched. 

Balance, moderation and of course, the most important thing being communication.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I shouldnthave said:


> Oh I wouldn’t say he is categorically LD.
> 
> Like I said earlier, it ebbs and flows. There are ups and downs. Some periods where he is lusting after me all the time, naughty texts throughout the day, times where I can’t get through the front door before he is all over me. There are times when his drive seems higher than mine. Those periods I love.
> 
> And periods where I have to do all the initiating, chasing, and lusting. Which, honestly sucks and sometimes if I am not getting a lot of positive response, my libido will eventually go into hibernation.
> 
> Our sex life definately has ups and downs.
> 
> And unlike what the dude seems to insist. It’s not all black and white. It’s not an either or. I have had both, and there is most certainly a HUGE difference.
> 
> As for my spouse, if I clearly communicate it’s a problem for me, he works on it. It’s a balancing act.
> 
> Remember, I have cheated, so I strive not to make him insecure, so I use my “I need you to lust after me more” requests judiciously.
> 
> But it is something we can talk about candidly. I can tell him why I need it, how it makes me feel etc.


I see. Yes, lots of things going on here.

I'm super happy that sometimes it is more like what you want! 

(super, terribly sorry about the times it isn't....oy)


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> And unlike what the dude seems to insist. It’s not all black and white. It’s not an either or. I have had both, and there is most certainly a HUGE difference.


Which is what I said. You can tell a difference in obligation sex and desire sex. If you can't, you've only ever had one or the other. 

Seems like everyone has one thing in common, LD+LD, HD+LD, HD+HD, doesn't matter. Your potential for a bad sex life is equal. LMAO


----------



## I shouldnthave

Thanks Faithful, there are worse things in life to “struggle” with. 

But in both scenarios we are having sex. Some on this thread seem to say that there is no difference between the two, and I beg to differ. 

And I suppose that touches back to the start of this thread, about attraction waning in long term relationships. 

I too have my ups and downs in my attraction to him, but I would say, that when he is in a high drive mode, my attraction to him always increases, while when I am doing the chasing, it dwindles, but I still buck up and make sure it happens. 

Because before you know it a lull becomes a drought, a drought can then turn into the Sahara and next thing you know you’re in the sexless marriage club.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I shouldnthave said:


> Thanks Faithful, there are worse things in life to “struggle” with.
> 
> But in both scenarios we are having sex. Some on this thread seem to say that there is no difference between the two, and I beg to differ.
> 
> And I suppose that touches back to the start of this thread, about attraction waning in long term relationships.
> 
> I too have my ups and downs in my attraction to him, but I would say, that when he is in a high drive mode, my attraction to him always increases, while when I am doing the chasing, it dwindles, but I still buck up and make sure it happens.
> 
> Because before you know it a lull becomes a drought, a drought can then turn into the Sahara and next thing you know you’re in the sexless marriage club.


I'm with you on the initiation and feeling desired and all of that. I always feel bad for men who never get to feel that. But a lot of men seem to just accept that they are not strongly desired maybe and don't expect their woman to show it? Not sure.

I just know that having it (to and from each other) is heaven, and not having it sucks.

These days, I'm out if it isn't there full time. Which still doesn't guarantee it will be there full time 3 years from now. But I've gotten pretty good at picking now, so I'm not worried.

My ex-h and I *STILL* can barely contain those types of urges, touches, and words coming out of us towards each other. We have to really watch ourselves, because just naturally our bodies will gravitate towards climbing on top of each other and groping each other, ha! I was successful in identifying his amazing HD nature and that we had a successful match (in the sex and desire dept), and knowing him now after the fact and seeing it even now holds true gives me some hope about my picker (in the sex and desire dept).


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> ^^^ I would say that’s an example of black and white thinking. Of course it’s not all or nothing.
> 
> If someone’s #1 love language is acts of service, it doesn’t mean that they would be happy if they were never touched.
> 
> Balance, moderation and of course, the most important thing being communication.


I think the love language stuff can be double edged. I agree it's not all or nothing. That isn't the point I'm trying to make. The point is that if your needs can and do change. Before kids, after kids, before owning a house, before you took this new job.... Stuff changes and your needs do with it. That includes your top love language even at times. 

In terms of double edge, people put too much importance in their own validations. Feels good, but I don't know how helpful it is in a relationship setting. The way people approach it is to validate themselves to their spouses. A sort of "see here what it says, this is what I need. All this other stuff is nice, and I appreciate it, but it doesn't do anything for me." To the point where you are now not only dismissing other acts, but people start taking a tally. Not saying that's what you do, but people absolutely do that. They convinced themselves that these one or two languages are the key to everything. To me, that is WAY more black and white thinking then anything I've said. This idea that humans are so emotionally complex comes up in other areas, but people who fully buy into love languages have everything narrowed down to 5 bullet points on a quiz. I don't see how anything I've said is more black and white than that.


----------



## I shouldnthave

Faithful Wife said:


> These days, I'm out if it isn't there full time. Which still doesn't guarantee it will be there full time 3 years from now. But I've gotten pretty good at picking now, so I'm not worried.


Keep in mind we have been together for 18 years. I would say this was a non issue for the first 10+ 

So 18 years deep, some waxing and waning I can deal with, especially as we are able to talk about it.

Which reminds me, I have been saying we are due for another staycation - I need to just book the room (staycations are always marvelous, we get a hotel room in the city, have sex several times a day and just enjoy each other - along with good food, good drink, and sexy nights).


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> Keep in mind we have been together for 18 years. I would say this was a non issue for the first 10+
> 
> So 18 years deep, some waxing and waning I can deal with, especially as we are able to talk about it.
> 
> Which reminds me, I have been saying we are due for another staycation - I need to just book the room (staycations are always marvelous, we get a hotel room in the city, have sex several times a day and just enjoy each other - along with good food, good drink, and sexy nights).


Don't know if it's different for you two, but hotel sex has always been the best sex for us.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I shouldnthave said:


> Keep in mind we have been together for 18 years. I would say this was a non issue for the first 10+
> 
> So 18 years deep, some waxing and waning I can deal with, especially as we are able to talk about it.
> 
> Which reminds me, I have been saying we are due for another staycation - I need to just book the room (staycations are always marvelous, we get a hotel room in the city, have sex several times a day and just enjoy each other - along with good food, good drink, and sexy nights).


Rock on sister!


----------



## I shouldnthave

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Don't know if it's different for you two, but hotel sex has always been the best sex for us.


Hotel sex is great 

As is road trip sex - we have a Honda Element camper that makes it quite accessible. Something about being naked while looking over the Pacific Ocean that is wonderful. 

We do lots of date nights, cocktails out on the town etc which are great for setting the mood - but something about booking a room with the sole intent of spending time together - really gets things going (plus always new furniture to try out different positions with - ha!)

We even stayed at an adults only hotel in Vegas before, that was quite the experience!


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> Hotel sex is great
> 
> As is road trip sex - we have a Honda Element camper that makes it quite accessible. Something about being naked while looking over the Pacific Ocean that is wonderful.
> 
> We do lots of date nights, cocktails out on the town etc which are great for setting the mood - but something about booking a room with the sole intent of spending time together - really gets things going (plus always new furniture to try out different positions with - ha!)
> 
> We even stayed at an adults only hotel in Vegas before, that was quite the experience!


Which hotel? That entire city should be adults only. Can't stand seeing kids in Vegas. It has nothing to do with gambling and hookers and drinking and all that either. I just want to go to the pool or dinner or a show without seeing some snot nosed kid running around. I've never understood the family trip to Vegas. Maybe when we are all over 21 or something, but even then I don't want to be in Vegas around my kids lol. "Hey son, so you're going over to blow a few hundred at the casino, then off to the pool club to try and bag some skank huh? Sounds great! And you princess, you're going out with girlfriends to Cosmo to get wasted and **** tease some men at the bar while barely covering your goodies huh? Well have fun kids. Your mom and I are going to go watch a burlesque show, spend $350 on dinner, before I get your mother wasted and take her back to the room and rail her until the neighbors are banging on the wall for us to keep it down."


----------



## I shouldnthave

I believe it was called the Artisan. 

Topless pool, pretty sure there was a swingers meet up while we were there. 

I am not much of a Vegas fan (we don’t gamble or smoke cigarettes!) - but we use it as a launching pad for trips. That time we flew in and rented a convertible to tour the southwest in. 

Stay was fun, no kids definitely a plus - we do not have kids and do not enjoy them, so always on the search for adult friendly spots.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> I believe it was called the Artisan.
> 
> Topless pool, pretty sure there was a swingers meet up while we were there.
> 
> I am not much of a Vegas fan (we don’t gamble or smoke cigarettes!) - but we use it as a launching pad for trips. That time we flew in and rented a convertible to tour the southwest in.
> 
> Stay was fun, no kids definitely a plus - we do not have kids and do not enjoy them, so always on the search for adult friendly spots.


I have kids, and I don't enjoy other people's kids at all haha. The topless pools in vegas are always a sad scene. But we love Vegas! We love getting up early and having a really good breakfast with some drinks. Then we lay around the pool all day. Do a little shopping, then get all dressed up for a nice dinner. Then after we catch a show, then low roll penny slots for a few hours just having fun walking around and people watching together. Hit a nice bar with a good view somewhere for a nightcap then off to bed. Wake up and do it all again the next day. 4 days of that, and our bank account is screaming to stop and we start missing the kids and pets at home.


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## ConanHub

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I have kids, and I don't enjoy other people's kids at all haha. The topless pools in vegas are always a sad scene. But we love Vegas! We love getting up early and having a really good breakfast with some drinks. Then we lay around the pool all day. Do a little shopping, then get all dressed up for a nice dinner. Then after we catch a show, then low roll penny slots for a few hours just having fun walking around and people watching together. Hit a nice bar with a good view somewhere for a nightcap then off to bed. Wake up and do it all again the next day. 4 days of that, and our bank account is screaming to stop and we start missing the kids and pets at home.


Never been to a topless or nude resort. I know a lady who did and she was pretty traumatized!>


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## I shouldnthave

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I have kids, and I don't enjoy other people's kids at all haha. The topless pools in vegas are always a sad scene. But we love Vegas! We love getting up early and having a really good breakfast with some drinks. Then we lay around the pool all day. Do a little shopping, then get all dressed up for a nice dinner. Then after we catch a show, then low roll penny slots for a few hours just having fun walking around and people watching together. Hit a nice bar with a good view somewhere for a nightcap then off to bed. Wake up and do it all again the next day. 4 days of that, and our bank account is screaming to stop and we start missing the kids and pets at home.


Our vacations tend to be similar, just not based in Vegas. We go to destination cities, Denver, Chicago, Austin, Boston etc. 

Or "staycation" in San Francisco or Oakland (usually taking the ferry between the two). 

Only instead of gambling and shopping we will road trip or hike and see some sights. We also go to tons of indie concerts. 

Tonight it's an event downtown (I am in an Uber on my way) and tomorrow a concert.


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## notmyjamie

My brother and SIL go to a nude beach on Martha's Vineyard every year. Every year they come back traumatized. They tell me it's the best beach on the island and that they set themselves up really far down so they are not near people but they have to walk past everyone to get their spot. Uh uh...


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## TheDudeLebowski

ConanHub said:


> Never been to a topless or nude resort. I know a lady who did and she was pretty traumatized!>


We actually did it a couple times because we didn't want any kids around. There's never anyone there but a couple of older couples probably trying to escape kids as well, and a few sad looking boys who were hoping to see some tits. Idiots! The cover charge at Spearment Rhino plus 3 lap dances is less than these topless pools charge to get in. There might be one or two ladies willing to go topless, but even that is very rare. If someone does, its often some old biker wife. Picture Dog the Bounty Hunter's wife out there topless. 

Idk why people have this idea about topless pools being like playboy models roaming around the grado at the mansion. Its a small group of people who are willing to pay to swim in a pool without kids around. 1 in 1000 takes their top off, and it's not the 1 in 1000 you want to see either. Its mostly a bunch of couples in their 50s and 60s who are willing to pay $$$ to get away from kids at their own hotel pool. 

Why the hell do these places take kids anyway? Go stay at circus circus with your little pissing in the pool, whining all day, tuck them in at night so you can sneak down to the casinos to blow their college fund at the tables, little snot nosed brats! Stay over there! Aria has nothing for kids. Why the hell are they here? Why the **** would any parent bring a kid to Vegas? Good Lord, that bothers me. Can't parents have ANY space? Without you bringing your damn baby? The **** are you doing walking a 1 year old through a smoke filled casino at 2am anyway? The **** you see in Vegas. I mean, you want to feel like a good parent. Spend 2 nights on the strip. You will realize that #1 dad mug you got for fathers day might actually be true.


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## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> Our vacations tend to be similar, just not based in Vegas. We go to destination cities, Denver, Chicago, Austin, Boston etc.
> 
> Or "staycation" in San Francisco or Oakland (usually taking the ferry between the two).
> 
> Only instead of gambling and shopping we will road trip or hike and see some sights. We also go to tons of indie concerts.
> 
> Tonight it's an event downtown (I am in an Uber on my way) and tomorrow a concert.


Denver is amazing! You're similar to us. In Colorado we do day hikes and nature. Then a nice restaurant. Denver is an underrated food city! Can't beat the beer in Colorado, and they have really good food there. Love Denver. You can keep Austin tho. Lol. But yeah, our couples vacations are the best times in my life. Sorry kiddos, it's true. I love them more than I can express, but alone time just being husband and wife 0n vacation together, its my favorite times on this earth. Can't explain the feelings but I know you know.


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## Wolf1974

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Denver is amazing! You're similar to us. In Colorado we do day hikes and nature. Then a nice restaurant. Denver is an underrated food city! *Can't beat the beer in Colorado*, and they have really good food there. Love Denver. You can keep Austin tho. Lol. But yeah, our couples vacations are the best times in my life. Sorry kiddos, it's true. I love them more than I can express, but alone time just being husband and wife 0n vacation together, its my favorite times on this earth. Can't explain the feelings but I know you know.


I live here and 100% agree. Love this state


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Wolf1974 said:


> I live here and 100% agree. Love this state


I loved it about three million people ago. Now, not so much.


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## 269370

I shouldnthave said:


> I don't find comfort, and even emotional attachment EXCITING. They do not sexually excite me. Sure, a lovely romantic evening with the man I love deeply can make me feel connected, and sexual in a romantic way - which includes attraction. But its different.
> 
> I will also qualify this by saying I hear that many women desire, or even need an emotional connection to have satisfying sex. They strongly desire "love making".
> 
> I have always felt that I was wired a bit differently. There is actually something about no strings attached, no emotional involvement FWB type relationships that I find thrilling. They excite me greatly.... Sex without the complication of relationships or emotion? Yes please.
> 
> I know in this world you can't have your cake and eat it to. If I could wave some magic wand and have a new boy friend or two every year, while still having loving, emotionally connected sex filled primary relationship, I would.



Interesting. I wonder how many women feel this way. Does your husband know this about you? Does it bother him?

I agree that some of the kinkiest sex one can have is when you are actually emotionally disconnected. It’s weird but it’s true and not sure why that is the case. But then it’s also not ‘real’. And then again ‘realness’ is maybe overrated...
Maybe that’s why she likes submissive stuff; that’s one way to ‘disconnect’ and just focus on pleasure (through pain).

Sex without complications or emotions? I think that’s a nice quality to have (that ‘boy-ish’ curiosity/playfulness; i don’t mean only boys have this...just that i haven’t met many women that exhibit it in adulthood, at least not openly). 

I don’t think it’s something I can provide for my wife, like at all. I feel I made her life a bit ‘too real’; family, kids...all boring adult stuff. I wonder if she misses being how she used to be when I met her back in school. (Sometimes a bit of an airhead, with her girlfriends).

Any ideas how to bring it back?..i worry I have made her into a mother!  ok, we do stuff by ourselves sometimes too but I think maybe I shouldn’t even be in the picture. Maybe I should send her to Las Vegas with a bunch of girlfriends for a week. See what happens...or if she likes it. She swears she wouldn’t...

But I sometimes feel she says stuff that sounds right, within our equilibrium/life. If she was in a different environment, maybe she would be saying other stuff. I just don’t know. When we end up with someone long term, I feel like we get moulded a certain way. Maybe some people don’t like being in that mould all the time and need to escape. But they won’t say it.
Sorry for the waffling. Thinking out loud. Just wonder how does someone know if they are repressing someone unknowingly.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

Funny, I wrote about Vegas before reading the end of the thread! Must be telepathy...

It’s not a destination I would pick for the both of us....

Depends how long we can leave the kids for but if it’s just a couple of days we drive out to nice country side hotels.
If it’s more than a few days I take her somewhere further, like Caribbean, Seychelles or Maldives. Italy is favourite destination if it’s less than a week. Best trip for us was to South Africa. Having sex among wild animals was the best...You really learn a lot 
I think as we evolved in some ways, we definitely devolved in others. 
But last time we have been on a long trip (just both of us) was pre-kids.
I don’t like cities that much (and no idea why we live in London...). There’s something about nature and natural beauty that makes me...very horny, for lack of a better word.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## I shouldnthave

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Denver is amazing! You're similar to us. In Colorado we do day hikes and nature. Then a nice restaurant. Denver is an underrated food city! Can't beat the beer in Colorado, and they have really good food there. Love Denver. You can keep Austin tho. Lol. But yeah, our couples vacations are the best times in my life. Sorry kiddos, it's true. I love them more than I can express, but alone time just being husband and wife 0n vacation together, its my favorite times on this earth. Can't explain the feelings but I know you know.


Yes we love Denver. Been many times now, probably the most visited city for us. We have gone for New Years multiple times. Nice to visit snow and “winter” things we do not really have in the Bay Area!

My husband works in the beer industry - many brewery stops are usually a staple of our trips. 

If the Bay Area eventually squeezes us out (seriously, it’s tough when the place you were born and love turns into the most expensive in the nation), Denver is on the short list. We both have job opportunities there.


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## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> Yes we love Denver. Been many times now, probably the most visited city for us. We have gone for New Years multiple times. Nice to visit snow and “winter” things we do not really have in the Bay Area!
> 
> My husband works in the beer industry - many brewery stops are usually a staple of our trips.
> 
> If the Bay Area eventually squeezes us out (seriously, it’s tough when the place you were born and love turns into the most expensive in the nation), Denver is on the short list. We both have job opportunities there.


Colorado is out for us. 3 times the home prices, and my wife is a teacher. Colorado doesn't pay teachers worth a damn at all. No way we could afford to live there like we do in Texas.


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## I shouldnthave

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Colorado is out for us. 3 times the home prices, and my wife is a teacher. Colorado doesn't pay teachers worth a damn at all. No way we could afford to live there like we do in Texas.


While it’s certainly not cheap, it’s a bargain compared to the Bay Area these days. Median home price is over a million in my area - I am stuck as a renter paying nearly 3k a month. Anywhere in the US is more affordable than where we are.


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## TheDudeLebowski

I shouldnthave said:


> While it’s certainly not cheap, it’s a bargain compared to the Bay Area these days. Median home price is over a million in my area - I am stuck as a renter paying nearly 3k a month. Anywhere in the US is more affordable than where we are.


Pick up and move to Texas. You two would live like sultans on a San Fran budget.


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## ConanHub

I shouldnthave said:


> Yes we love Denver. Been many times now, probably the most visited city for us. We have gone for New Years multiple times. Nice to visit snow and “winter” things we do not really have in the Bay Area!
> 
> My husband works in the beer industry - many brewery stops are usually a staple of our trips.
> 
> If the Bay Area eventually squeezes us out (seriously, it’s tough when the place you were born and love turns into the most expensive in the nation), Denver is on the short list. We both have job opportunities there.


I now love your husband in a completely non sexual but totally respectful beer brotherhood kind of way!!!>


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## ConanHub

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Pick up and move to Texas. You two would live like sultans on a San Fran budget.


What general area? We love Texas and do a lot of work there.


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## TheDudeLebowski

ConanHub said:


> What general area? We love Texas and do a lot of work there.


Dallas, Houston, Austin for work. Austin is a little more expensive and their traffic is THE worst in Texas. They just don't have the same space we do in Dallas and Houston. Its a cool city. Too liberal for me. Probably good for someone from the bay area. Very similar to boulder. Same vibe. Best bbq brisket in the entire world hands down, no arguments, period, end of discussion, can't ever find better BBQ than Texas hill country dont even @ me with some Memphis or KC or any other BS because nobody is close, not even on the same planet. Austin's music scene can't be touched by anyone else in the state. Great music city!

Houston is cool because they don't really do zoning laws. Which sucks kind of for some old timers in their family home I'm sure, but its kind of cool to someone who is used to strict zoning laws elsewhere. But Houston basically is the Arm Pit of Texas. Meaning, you will always have that little bit of sticky sweat on your body. It's just too humid. First part of your body to get that little bit of perspiration is always your pits. In Houston, your entire body is your pits. But you're close to the Gulf. You got salt water fishing and other activities. You got NASA which is pretty cool. 5th largest metro in the country. So naturally you will have lots of stuff to do. Houston is dirty looking though, which is something Austin and Dallas certainly aren't. 

Dallas or DFW really. The Dub is a great metroplex imo. Dallas is a Very nice looking city by design. Our problem is culture. The nice thing though is that you can find the culture you want around here. I live in a small city, and it has a very small city feel to it, even though we are in the metroplex. If You want Cosmo, theres plenty of that. You want more of a southern hospitality style bit slower pace, Fort Worth. Anything you want its here. Except food. We aren't known for anything, or do anything exceptional. Well, we are known for Dr Pepper I guess, and frozen Margaritas. This goes back into culture. I don't know if Dallas or DFW really has a culture outside of the Cowboys. You know when you go to a city for a week, you start to feel the vibe of the city? DFW is so dependant on the areas you visit. So there's nothing that makes someone say "DFW just has this certain vibe to the city" like an Austin or San Antonio would. It's not really bland, it's just a huge area of many different cities that all share roads and really nothing else in common. Which is kind of what I like about it, even though it sounds like I'm complaining about it. I can go to Fort Worth for the day and feel like I'm out of state it's so different from the little city I'm in. Same with Dallas. Great thing about the area is there's plenty of work here, and its cheaper than Austin and has better airports for travel and such if that is required for work. Obviously sports teams and arts and all the stuff that comes with the 4th largest metroplex in the US. You can find that small town feel here too very easy. Its a great golf city too if you hit the links. 

San Antonio is too much fun for me to live there. Nicest people ever! There's always some party going on too. Some festival, carnival, whatever. Streets blocked off. People walking around, cooking and eating great street food. Live music. This is like twice a week down there. Swear I don't know how they get any work done. I wouldn't live there because that's my weekend getaway spot. Cali's Mexican food has NOTHING on San Antonio. Puffy tacos? Forget about it. You think they are making margaritas better in San Jose? Well they aren't! Lol. Cali has better overall food cities, but for specifically Mexican food and BBQ, Texas has everyone else in the states beat. Sorry if that fact hurts anyone's feelings. The problem is I don't know how much work is there. Its growing, like every Texas city, it's just not a hot spot for work really. Too busy eating chicken on a stick and doing salsa dances in the streets i guess. Their roads suck too. Thats another win for Dallas. For the most part, they really keep our roads nice and seem to fix and widen and all that really quickly compared to most places in Texas. 

I can talk about small cities too if you want. Im a Texan through and through. Been all over this great state.


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## Faithful Wife

I think I had a shift in understanding.

So for myself, if I considered being sexual with someone, and they had a kink or certain type of high desire for something that is not on my list of wants/desires, I can imagine being GGG about it (a lot of things) for a time. And NRE would help a lot.

But eventually, I’m going to revert to what I prefer. And if the other person’s wants are not something I got into out of trying it a lot, eventually I’ll get over it and not want to do it anymore. Unless somehow I developed a taste for it (possible), I would eventually not want to play like that anymore.

So if I imagine myself as less D, and imagine that some level of sex and exploration is agreeable to me at the beginning, but since it’s truly not in my wheelhouse (what does that saying even mean?) it’s something I won’t be able to sustain an interest in. I may be truly in love with the guy, and truly interested in expanding my sexual script. But if after trying this for a time and I don’t naturally hook into it and become even more curious...it’s not going to be sustainable.

Maybe we should all be more gracious of anything our spouse was willing to try that was outside their script. 

When I think of it like this, I can see how love and the desire to please may all be present, even while someone looks like they don’t have as much interest in you as they did in the beginning. I have totally lost interest in certain sex acts or directions with a partner, without losing interest in them.


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## Tony Conrad

I am very grateful that my wife has done for years something outside of her script but she does say she is comfortable with it. If it had never happened she would be fine but because it has she has entered straight into it. There is one thing that is a no no for her but we have tried it. That is now off the table and having accepted that it was not really a need anyway.

In my Prime says that kinky sex generally happens when you are feeling detached from your spouse (Don't like the word partner. Is this a marriage site or what?) That is an interesting comment. We have kinky sex as part of the normal. I go as far as I can in the normal and bring her to climax but often feel I have missed something if there is no kink. Maybe I am perverted but get nowhere in trying to change. There is a departure from normal when one has kinky sex but for me I feel even closer to her when that happens. She has touched something that nothing else seems to reach. In a way I would like to be normal but she knows the worse in me and is comfortable with it it seems. We have a happy marriage since 1982 and as the normal drive wanes it becomes more kinky. Is that detachment? I don't think so as the sexual side is still very much alive although different. Love and committment is all I think whatever happens in the bedroom.


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## Mr.Married

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Dallas, Houston, Austin....Im a Texan through and through. Been all over this great state.



You hit it just right. I love living in Texas. Cost of living for what you get is hard to beat. I'm right north of Houston.

My youngest daughter will be right by you come the new school year at TCU !


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## MJJEAN

BioFury said:


> Could you expound on why? What about him makes your motor run? And has that "what", changed over time? Is there anything that could potentially damage your desire for him?


What about him makes my motor run? Got me! He's handsome and highly intelligent. He's got a great sense of humor. He calls out bs when he sees it. He has a good heart and has been known to give half his lunch to stray dogs or homeless guys. But I've known other men with the same great qualities that I was also sexually attracted to and involved with and yet I didn't fall head over heels for them. It's just something about him that I can't explain. I've been trying to figure out how and why for damn near two decades. The best I've ever come up with is maybe it's a perfect combination of core personality compatibility and strong physical chemistry.


We were 24 when we met. We're 43 now. _So_ much has changed over time. Over the years our political and religious beliefs have changed. Didn't stop me from wanting to pounce on him from dark corners. Our life and lifestyle goals have changed. My desire for him hasn't. We've been through weight gain and weight loss. Currently, DH is 70 lbs overweight and needs to lose weight for his health. Still find him a beautiful sight to behold naked or clothed. He's had long hair, short hair, a beard, a goatee, and been clean shaven. No matter what's going on with the hair, I think he's plain sexy. For a few years I couldn't convince him it was NOT ok to wear socks with Teva's (sandals, for those who don't know). Despite his occasional terrible fashion choices, I can't keep my hands off him.

The only thing I can think of that would effect my desire for him would be infidelity. I am very possessive and territorial, so involvement with another woman physically or emotionally would very likely put a huge dent in my desire, if not kill it altogether.


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## In Absentia

MJJEAN said:


> For a few years I couldn't convince him it was NOT ok to wear socks with Teva's (sandals, for those who don't know).


That would have been ground for divorce for me... :laugh:


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## heartsbeating

I shouldnthave said:


> No, I can’t say just looking at him makes me all lusty. It takes a bit more work mentally for me now. I’ll think about sex we have had, or things I want to do with him etc to get the arousal ball rolling.


Batman's a good-looking guy, however, if I feel lusty just by looking at him, it seems connected with certain outfits. That is something that has changed over the years. I love how he looks in a skullcap; rolled up flannel sleeves with forearms exposed; the suit jacket he wears to work. On reflection, I'm almost embarrassed to admit this, but the clothes symbolize actions of hard work and taking care of stuff (could be splitting wood, that kind of thing). Then dressed for volunteering, and knowing what's involved, resistance is futile. Makes me feel all ....mrreeow. 

I agree that thinking about sex we have had, or what I want to do, or want him to do to me, ignites my internal spark too. Laughing together, being goofballs, having the odd weekend away, and his consideration and support for me, also contributes to my desire. My mojo and inclination waned recently due to burning the candle at both ends, however, I'm aware the balance needs to brought back. I have moments of driving home, perhaps feeling stressed from the day, and crave our bodies together as a release. It may not always happen, but my mind goes there.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Faithful Wife said:


> There is statistical data that tells us that over time, women tend to lose their sexual desire for a man in an LTR.


It's probably because of the **** they do the _other_ 95% of the time. :wink2:


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