# To Men Getting No Sex - 9 Reasons Why



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

So guys.

After reading this post I asure you you will get more Sex. Just by reading it!

Now my question?

What is your situation right now? Have you tried so many advices but still end up not getting more sex? Or are you still ready to try more new stuff to get more sex?

If you are latter, then this post here is not for u! Just stop reading. But if you are tired of not getting (wet) *****, then it is for u.

I will now let you just know 9 reasons why your wife is not interested in sex. Why she is not often enough dripping wet. Why she is not orgasming often enough. And so on..
Why and so on?

Because the reasons for most sexual problems in relationships are the same.

I wont't give advice how to solve each of the 9 problems! Sometime you will have to research yourself to how to solve them. 
My aim is to make you just know where you are going wrong (but also what you are doing right!).

*ST = Solution*

*Reason # 1*

- She is tired
ST: Let her sleep and don't persue her anymore tonight. Don't!

The thing is, once she initiates sex more often, she will even become reseptive WHEN SHE IS TIRED. Till those days come, resist from persueing her.

*Reason # 2*

- She is sick
ST: Make sure you are supporting her in getting better as long as she is showing at least the same effort in wanting to get better! Most men overdo trying to help her get better or fix herself. She is a grown up and has to be the first one showing interest in what is best for her. Otherwise, that is not your job!

*Reason # 3*

- She is angry
ST: 
a) She is angry because you didn't hold your word or because she truly needed support in doing sth but you didn't help. Then appologize (maximum once - dont be a sissy) and make sure u are doing better next time.

b) She is angry because you are making use of your rights as man, meaning you are visiting friends or maybe working hard at your job or whatever? Ignore her anger! This is very crucual, most men tend to argue over their rights instead of just sticking to a line continue making use of them. BACKBONE!
Ah, you dont know what your rights as a man are:

- start with:
a) making sure you are feeling good, so meet friends and have a hobby
b) security for those you love: 
-Make sure you are making the best of your physical apperance (you dont need to look like the Rock), but the best means you are in good shape! Beieng able to stand up for your loved ones when they are beieng threatened or in trouble that is definately not their fault. 
c) providing for those you love:
- So, maybe after reading a, you thought you could hang around home, watch TV, meet friends, while Wifey is working 10 hours a day, doing the laundry and taking care of the kids? NOOOO! This means you are making sure that your family has to eat and to wear! So make sure you are having a job.
d) Do manly things
- Most guys here want to fix there relationship, but dont know how to fix a bulb.. Make sure u understand the basics of keeping your house in shape. All that heavy duty and maybe dangerous stuff, make it your job! You will be surprised that your woman will rarely call you on laundry or dishes,because that is her part, at least it should be mostly - SO LONG U ARE DOING THE HEAVY STUFF! If you are not? Make sure you are helping her out on her end!
No matter what, it is still fine and a good example (for the kids) to help her once a while, just dont be a "yes maam" or a slave of hers.

*Reason # 4*

- You are presuring her
You often get the advice to talk about the lack of sex beacuse communication is so important. Yes it is, but there are certain things that tend to presure when always repeated! *Stop talking about NO SEX!* If you are talking about sex, make sure it is a talk in good mood! Lets say talking about how great she was or what you like or maybe dont like during sex. But not about NO SEX!

*Reason # 5*

- You are overdoing your attention for your woman!
This is the most difficult point for men who arent getting enough sex to keep under control! It may seem natural for you to praise your woman often, but it is more natural for you to do it only now and then again. Why is this so:
You wont like to hear this and the feminist might hate it too.. She wants sex more when SHE is able to persue you (more than you her!).
If you dont believe it, try it or read the threads on this board where women are complaining about their husbands not showing enough interest in sex!
Caution: This does not mean u should neglect or hide that u like sex! This will only work if u really dont need much sex! Therefore make sure she knows you like sex 

(_admit to sometime watch porn if u do, just dont make a big story or please dont go into big details. Please!.. Once a while take a short glance at an atractive woman (dont over do this, unless u are fine with her always glancing at other men!).. Once a while disqualify sth about a beautiful woman, why? Because we feel more valued when someone we asume of havong more value has a flaw (dont overdo it because she might compare herself too hard with the other and feel herself as not attractive enough).. Sometimes say thanks by slapping her butt_) 

and that you are complimenting her when she seems to be trying to persue you (_e.g. she is walking with only a towel on around the house, or she wears nice cloths when u leave the house together._).
Now you might say, wearing a towel doesnt seem like persueing me, or wearing a nice dress could be also for other men or other women.. *SHUT UP! Asume it is for you* and let her know you like it. 
The thing is, you not overdoing your attention! So compliment her *and focus back on sth else!* Dont even think of trying to seduce her just because things just seem right right now! Remember! It is not the first time things seem right and u end up turned down! So dont spoil the TENSION! Believe me, if you dont show frustration and keep on beieng happy without sex, she will soon be very direct in her approach for sex. When that day comes, dont rush to accepting, make sure you are not leaving what u are doing or wanted to do in the next 10 min just for sex. Why? Because women love men with integrity, so finish what you were doing (even if she threatens u!) and postpond the act of sex to later (30 min, 2 hours, today eviening, tomorrow morning etc..). Most men are incapable of doing this, they jump into sex, then are angry when they arent getting more sex after this one time. 

*The key to get sex when you want, ist to be able to turn it down when you want. *

That is even the reason your wife is always getting sex when she wants from you, because you are focusing too much on getting any because you are afraid to dry out..

*Reason # 6*

- You not respecting yourself. I mentioned integrity up here. If you arent assertive enough to keep your integrity, people lose respect for you. You find yourself struggling for more attention, but if you are a man who has values which he defends with integrity, u are respected and adored.
Dont misunderstand. You should not always be so assertive that u are an *sshole, but you should be sometimes!
- You comparing yourself to hard
The keyword here is jealousy! If you always snap when your woman or when other people talk good about potential rivals, they will start to enjoy doing so. So if your wife once in a while is talking about other men, dont get driven by your emotions. Stay calm and have fun in making fun with her. Even compliment her on be wanted by so many men. Just make sure you arent hanging around her too long, because in most cases u might get emotional finally. 
The best way to kill jealousy-making-talk is you to talk about another woman you met or know. That will shut both of you up in no time. U dont know any other attractive women?
1. they dont need to be super attractive. She will get jealous by the fact that YOU TOO have a foot in the flirt-market.
2. U dont have other women in your life right now? 
Fake/create one or two women. You dont know how to do it without exagerating? Then carefully listen to how you woman tells her stories about other men! She never is spesific and when your interest for the topic rises, she either changes the topic or only gives you half answers. Do it the same. Just make sure you change the topic after a few sentences.

*Reason # 7*

- You not beieng able to handle her. Just ask yourself following quastions:
a) Are able to say no to her and stick to it?
b) Are able to say no to a compromise because the deal is not good for you?
c) Are you able to ignore her without beieng passive aggresive when she ignores you?
d) Are you able to resist arguing with her when it comes to her trying to tell you how to behave and just letting her talk so that she can let her anger out?
e) when she corrects you, can you resist trying to please her?
f) Are you able to tell her to help you do sth or to tell her to do sth smal for you?
g) Are you able to walk out when you notice that she is not complying in something important
h) Are you able to disqualify her when she is doing sth wrong or are you the guy that needs to make her feel good all the time?
i) When she does sth wonderful for you or herself, but you still have anger in yourself about sth, are you able to swallow the anger and focus on her current archievment and support her in feeling good about it?
j) Are you able to forgive her small mistakes when you are angry because of not getting sex?
k) Are you ever too tired for sex tonight?
l) Are you ever pretending to be tired for sex tonight?

The more questions you answered with Yes, the better. 

*Reason # 8*

- You beieng or letting things be predictible

A very crucial point. 
- Are you always initiating sex at the same time? (e.g. while watching TV, while in Bed, only evenings, only mornings etc..)
- Is she always turning you down, but you never turn her down?
- Are you always angry when you are turned down?
- Are you always using the same skill/foreplay to get her hot?
- Are you always doing foreplay?
- Are you always c*mming inside her or are u also be a "bad boy" and cumming on her breast , stomach, face etc..
- Are you always focused on her during foreplay or sex?
- Are you always rough?
- Are you always tender?
- Are you always having long sex?
- Do you always allow foreplay or sexy lingerie lead to sex?
- Always missionary sex?

The point prediction is sensitive because it often means that one partner will have to do sth out of order and will risk not only disapproval from the other, but also anger or a fight. The solution is to be assertive in order to spice up sth by variety or leave it! Make sure your assertiveness when it comes to sex is alwasy done with a smile and without rage!!!!

As a man the fear not to get sex, or not to finish sex is sometimes so huge that u will tend to always give in to do things her way.. You are doing the wrong thing. Remember:


> *The key to get sex when you want, ist to be able to turn it down when you want. *


Each time you ignore this fact, you are driving away from more and better sex!

PS: Once she has turned you down often, it becomes a habit. Sometime she will actually want sex, but out of a refley, she will turn you down.. and then she will not take it back because it might affect her self-pride. *So make sure u are not always predictible, but dont stress yourself in trying to be full of variety*, because that is strassy and predictable too. Relax and make sure that once a while yu are chnaging a smal aspect of sth!

*Reason # 9*

- You arent sexy yourself:

Guys, there are enough books and advices in what is a sexy man. It is up to you to choose who is your adviser here, but what applies TO ALL GUYS is to be clean and in shape. Ok, beieng dirty once in a while because of heavy duty can be a turn on to your woman sometimes ;-). We all know that..

So therefore let me remind you what you need to develop a SEXY PERSONALITY:

Focus on beieng happy yourself (as already mentioned). A happy man who doesnt get angry because of any sexual thing is much more attractive than the one who presures his wife in sexual matters till she cant enjoy thinking of making love!!

There are so many ways to be happy, so make sure you find out for yourself what makes you happy.
The basics in beieng happy usually are:
a) Not trying too hard to be happy. Why? Because when u start to feel frustration, you are distancing yourself from beieng happy, meaning what you believe will make you happy is far out of reach because it will cost you too much energie and resources!

_Happiness is like a butterfly, when you chase it too hard it is uncatchable, when you take a rest from chasing it, it comes to you._

b) distracting yourself from things that make you sad, angry or frustrated. Make sure you are FIRST always focusing on the positive side of the coin! A glass can be half empty or half full!
This does not mean that Sadness, Anger and Frustration should not exist in your life! NO! It is healthy to have them in your life in order for you too be emotionaly balanced!
It more means that you should acknowledge them and then ask yourself in which situation you are feeling them. When it is always because of the same situation, then it is time to let go of the sitaution when possible or to distract yourself by actively doing sth that will change your focus.

Our mind can only let you be filled by one thought or feeling at a time.

Be it sadness, be it anger, be it frustration, be it anticipation, be it joy.

Sometimes it is the thought that causes the feeling, sometimes the feeling that causes the thought. Make an advantage of this. When u are tired of beieng sad or frustrated, smile (or do sth that usually makes you happy) and you will soon remember sth positive and then you will feel the feeling that usually causes u to smile.

..

So, at the beginning you remember me saying that just reading this post will get you more sex?

I lied..

You distancing yourself from your sexlife for some weeks and looking out for the points and reasons I stated up here will.

With best regards

PsyM.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I hate to be contrarian but a lot of this does not apply to my situation. My wife shows zero interest in sex. She is 100% indifferent to it. She is not upset at not having it. We talk about it and she voices no issues or concerns. It has been three months now and she is not bothered in the least bit. Besides sex, we get along like magic. I have quit initiating and life has not changed in the least bit. I am not sure that anything on my end is going to change this.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

10. You married an evil bat.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Same here. If I told her that we could go the rest of our lives without sex, she would be happy with it. She'd rather play her computer games, complain about how tired she is, and ***** about my driving.


I think that either it is a hormonal thing or she simply does not have a whole lot of interest in having sex. I thought that if i stopped initiating, complimenting her, and being affectionate that she would come around. Not in the least. She does not masturbate nor flirt with me at all. Sex and cricket scores in New Zealand are of equal importance to her.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Same here. If I told her that we could go the rest of our lives without sex, she would be happy with it. She'd rather play her computer games, complain about how tired she is, and ***** about my driving.


She would probably be estatic and love you more as a result!


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> I think that either it is a hormonal thing or she simply does not have a whole lot of interest in having sex. I thought that if i stopped initiating, complimenting her, and being affectionate that she would come around. Not in the least. She does not masturbate nor flirt with me at all. Sex and cricket scores in New Zealand are of equal importance to her.


I just wanted to add to the original posters "happy" theory.

I will agree that being "stressed", "angered", "looking deprived", "lowered confidence" as a result of being truly sexually deprived is not going to appear to be very attractive.

It's going to look more attractive to look happy.

I guess if you have some stuff going on, or look like you have some stuff going on... If your wife is the type to be sexually attracted to your type, then you will be having sex.

Sometimes they get bored. Sometimes they were doing sex because of the validation and at the time their single friends were doing it, so trying to out compete each other... Etc.

Up to you to determine.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> I hate to be contrarian but a lot of this does not apply to my situation. My wife shows zero interest in sex. She is 100% indifferent to it. She is not upset at not having it. We talk about it and she voices no issues or concerns. It has been three months now and she is not bothered in the least bit. Besides sex, we get along like magic. I have quit initiating and life has not changed in the least bit. I am not sure that anything on my end is going to change this.


Sorry for you you just read this post in order to wine about how unfair your wife is. Did you read this:


> - You are presuring her
> You often get the advice to talk about the lack of sex beacuse communication is so important. Yes it is, but there are certain things that tend to presure when always repeated! Stop talking about NO SEX! If you are talking about sex, make sure it is a talk in good mood! Lets say talking about how great she was or what you like or maybe dont like during sex. But not about NO SEX!


I believe you arent a challenge of a man. If you carefully read my post again, you will notice that:


> we get along like magic.


Is not the aim here. Getting along like magic 24/7 is often even the reason for NO sex. You should double check why you are getting along so well.
Apart from Sex, is there anything that is running well because of you beieng such a good husband who made a compromise? When yes, better check if the deal in that matter is beieng kept on both sides.

I hate to talk about alpha and beta guys, but the thing is that a more aggresive personality (not only in sexual matters!!!) in form of acting like a man (not the man the feminists demand, the man that is following a few number of goals that arent his woman!) turn women on.
Ignoring this fact is fatal for a sexual relationship. What most women dont conciously know, is that them trying to keep, change and please a man turns them more on than any romantic stories ever written. In fact the thing that is turns women on in romantic stories is that those men are usualy desired by so many women in that story (or real life) and that they are either almost unreachable or always have flaws that need to be fixed.
Sure those men have godly look and often do romantic things! But from a far different angle than most men in our world do romantic things.
- Story book man: does romantic things because he believes this woman is godly
- Real life man: does romantic things with the agenda to get HER APPROVAL so that he gets sex

So either you believe in pleasing your woman because she deserves it and you believe in her, rather than because you want sex. There is no way you can resist wanting sex when turned on, but you can control the amount of approval you are willing to give to get it. Only then is when you will get sex which both of you want and not a "she-giving-in-sex".



ChargingCharlie said:


> Same here. *If I told her that we could go the rest of our lives without sex, she would be happy with it.* She'd rather play her computer games, complain about how tired she is, and ***** about my driving.


You too, what I wrote to tyler applies to you. And:


> Caution: This does not mean u should neglect or hide that u like sex! This will only work if u really dont need much sex! Therefore make sure she knows you like sex
> 
> (admit to sometime watch porn if u do, just dont make a big story or please dont go into big details. Please!.. Once a while take a short glance at an atractive woman (dont over do this, unless u are fine with her always glancing at other men!).. Once a while disqualify sth about a beautiful woman, why? Because we feel more valued when someone we asume of havong more value has a flaw (dont overdo it because she might compare herself too hard with the other and feel herself as not attractive enough).. Sometimes say thanks by slapping her butt)
> 
> and that you are complimenting her when she seems to be trying to persue you (e.g. she is walking with only a towel on around the house, or she wears nice cloths when u leave the house together.).


And you need to make her play less Games or either it is time for you to leave. Beacuse if she does not have it under control, it is an addiction.
Just dont say she should stop playing because of you not getting sex! As I said, NO SEX-PRESSURE!

Are you ready to test your assertiveness? Make rules to which both of you have to stick to. She breaks them, you plan moving out. You have to be ready to focus on happiness without her. If she loves you, she will be interested in happiness with you!

If you stop focusing on her, u ll soon notice how good of a man you are. Focus on your self and dont be ashamed to interact with other women. If this does not shake her, then it is time for you to move on.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

*Reason # 10*

Let me add a *10th reason* why you dont get sex:

U not working on reasons 1-9 long enough. How long do men do sth about themselves to get sex?
In my experience either till frustration builds up or till they get sex. Either way, after that they fall back in old patterns, regardless of wether she is now into sex or not. Common mistake:

"why are you not into sex today, you where the other day, what is different today, why, why, why"

The only thing that is different is that you have fallen back into not focusing on your side of the equation: 

Making yourself a priority for yourself an not pressuring (=talking about NO-SEX!)


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I am not going to play the game of whose sex life is worse but I can shoot down the majority of items in the OP. The majority of these reasons assume that the wife has some interest. The OP is good stuff and could be useful to most couples.

FYI, I am not pressuring her. I do not talk about it. I just go about life as if I was single. I took advice similar to what you are posting six months ago and what has been the result? Sex twice and both times it has been less than passionate.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Why does your husband assault you? 

1. You burned dinner.
2. You talked back.
3. You gained weight.
4. You looked at him funny.
5. You talked to another guy.
6. You didn't do laundry right.
7. Your cat annoys him.
8. You nag and argue too much.
9. You just haven't learned how to be a good wife.

There is no excuse for abusing one's spouse, be it physical or emotional. A choice to get married is a commitment to be a sexual partner. We don't treat our partners inhumanely because we are human beings. We fulfill our commitments and obligations because that's what's expected of adult, sane, humans. If we find our motivation is lagging, we figure out why and we fix it. We aren't slaves to our emotions and simply refusing to saw our end of the log isn't an option in a partnership. Commitment means you do as you promised, you behave according to what you purport to be even when you don't happen to feel like it. I don't refuse my wife sex for the same reason I don't starve my kids or animals, I don't punch my wife in the face, and I don't remain in bed when it's time to go to work. I have been entrusted with meeting certain needs. I willingly entered into those commitments. Their needs don't vanish on the days I don't feel like meeting them.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

tyler...I agree that if any spouse is truly LD, then nothing the other spouse does can "make" them be higher D.

The LD spouse can choose to address it themselves for their own reasons, but if they don't choose to, the HD spouse is S.O.L.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"Their needs don't vanish on the days I don't feel like meeting them."

Yet there is still no way to "make" a spouse fulfill your needs. Your only recourse is divorce if they refuse. There is no authority out there who will say "now LD spouse, you MUST fulfill your HD spouse's needs". It just doesn't work that way.

Being resentful about it, cranky, mean, those things won't make a difference either. We have only one actual way of handling a spouse who won't meet our needs...letting them go.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Apparently some women really just don't want sex, or at least are more than happy to take extended breaks. And it has nothing to do with whether the man is alpha, beta, gamma or whatever.

One example can be found in this book:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/16/books/the-art-of-sleeping-alone-sophie-fontanels-memoir.html?_r=0


----------



## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> 10. You married an evil bat.


^^^THIS. Also, she may be feeling resentment for something you did years/decades ago, and she can't past it.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> I am not going to play the game of whose sex is worse but I can shoot down the majority of items in the OP. *The majority of these reasons assume that the wife has some interest. *


Yes, that is right. Believe me, when your wife and you had frequent sex at the beginning of the relationship, she has interest. Just it is not there now, and especially not for the you of today. The future you, more probably.



> FYI, I am not pressuring her. I do not talk about it. I just go about life as if I was single. I took advice similar to what you are posting six months ago and what has been the result? Sex twice and both times it has been less than passionate.


Ah yeah, let me guess. She showed interest and you "thankfully" accepted. You accepting the first time after so long is ok, but as I stated:


> The thing is, you not overdoing your attention! So compliment her and focus back on sth else! Dont even think of trying to seduce her just because things just seem right right now! Remember! It is not the first time things seem right and u end up turned down! So dont spoil the TENSION! Believe me, if you dont show frustration and keep on beieng happy without sex, she will soon be very direct in her approach for sex. When that day comes, dont rush to accepting, make sure you are not leaving what u are doing or wanted to do in the next 10 min just for sex. Why? Because women love men with integrity, so finish what you were doing (even if she threatens u!) and postpond the act of sex to later (30 min, 2 hours, today eviening, tomorrow morning etc..). Most men are incapable of doing this, they jump into sex, then are angry when they arent getting more sex after this one time.
> 
> The key to get sex when you want, ist to be able to turn it down when you want.


And remember:


> k) Are you ever too tired for sex tonight?
> l) Are you ever pretending to be tired for sex tonight?


Did you answer this question with yes? I know, after 6 months of no sex, it seem natural to accept every drop rain, but that is exactly what is the problem.

Sex is approval, for the man and the woman. So if she was turned on by you in a way, it felt natural for her to want you, but after her beieng approved by the guy that turns her on, the tension subsides.. If you aint a small challenge.

And yes, she wont tell you this. And yes, even if you believe me, you beieng a challenge once will not be enough to get more sex. It is a proccess because both of you have gotten into certain habbits.

You into the: I love getting any, so I cant say no. And she: I can always get it, so whats up today, ah yes, I m tired, I m sick, its late, the house is upside down etc..
Ever thought of what will happen if you comlained it were to late and you needed to work out early, so you would love to make love, but how about tomorrow after the gym or work or whatever?
And yes, if she turns you down the next day, you will take it easy, it is not only YOUR LOSS, but hers too. You cant be the one feeding her ego!


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Maso...I agree with a lot of what you are writing, but some women and men are simply LD and there is no way to change them.

I would hesitate to broadcast the idea that your ideas would work for any man.

Also you seem to be unaware that many women are the higher desire partner in a relationship. Some men just aren't that sexual.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Psy,
Among the most common themes by unhappy, frustrated HD posters are:
- Other than sex, our relationship is perfect AND
- Perfection is typically defined as the absence of conflict

- They tend to: 
- Have a limited understanding of 'marital' strength
- View conflict, and the 'tension' it produces as bad 
- Have a large 'blind spot' regarding the relationship between demonstrating strength and creating desire
- Avoid discussions about how 'normal healthy conflict' provides a great opportunity to demonstrate strength

In your first post, you did a nice job of presenting the concept of 'creating desire' by demonstrating strength. You provided a set of practical examples. 





Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Sorry for you you just read this post in order to wine about how unfair your wife is. Did you read this:
> 
> 
> I believe you arent a challenge of a man. If you carefully read my post again, you will notice that:
> ...


----------



## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> I hate to be contrarian but a lot of this does not apply to my situation. My wife shows zero interest in sex. She is 100% indifferent to it. She is not upset at not having it. We talk about it and she voices no issues or concerns. It has been three months now and she is not bothered in the least bit. Besides sex, we get along like m
> agic. I have quit initiating and life has not changed in the least bit. I am not sure that anything on my end is going to change this.


I also hate to be a contrarian. Most of these approaches have been attempted without success.

I am happy for OP that his woman is amenable to these tactics however.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

soulseer said:


> I also hate to be a contrarian. Most of these approaches have been attempted without success.
> 
> I am happy for OP that his woman is amenable to these tactics however.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have not initiated in six months. I live pretty much the same life as I did when I was single. I take care of all of my mundane daily needs and entertain myself. The result: even less interest than before. She actually seems to welcome my lack of initiating. We are roommates. I do not whine, complain, or even talk about our nonexistent sex life.


----------



## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

I have taken to initiating at regular intervals. it seems to have become better actually rather than the expected routine/boring. we both know what day its gonna happen & somehow it happens, we both have fun and enjoy it.

I was definitely HD she LD but I slipped into LD out of confusion and resentment. I think she is responsive desire.

Being LD after HD was depressing. As I did not initiate we slipped into sex every 4-6 weeks which really made me feel dead.

Regular sex has perked me up and strengthened our relationship. I think it has made both of us happier to know we are gonna get some.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Why does your husband assault you?
> 
> 1. You burned dinner.
> 2. You talked back.
> ...


Easy to read and say. The truth is the only person you can fix to your fullfillment is YOU YOURSELF. So if your spouse needs beieng fixed, she has to believe she needs to be fixed herself otherwise you will get no where.
And when ist comes to sex, first one has to fix himself before the woman. I cant speak for the women at this point, that is slightly a different situation when her man is not into sex.



> We aren't slaves to our emotions [...]


As rational humans, that is what we believe. We are wrong. The only time you arent a slave of your emotions is when you are aware of them driving you. So now tell me, how often are you aware of getting angry before you get angry?



> and simply refusing to saw our end of the log isn't an option in a partnership. Commitment means you do as you promised, you behave according to what you purport to be even when you don't happen to feel like it.


Not when it comes to sex or love. I believe you cannot promise to love someone just like you cannot promise to always have interest in sex. So promising each other frequent sex is useless, because it will put pressure on it and even destroy the joy one should get out of it.
The other point is that even trying to fullfil the other wount work on the long run because humans have the habbit to create a comfortable zone for themselves. Meaning you will soon be working out compromises and deals or you will just get used to the other complaining about the issue. The only time u will show interest in changing your attitude is when the other shakes your comfort zone by changing himself/herself, which naturaly makes you unsure about your comfort zone, pulling you more into beieng more interested in the other parties issues.



> I don't refuse my wife sex for the same reason I don't starve my kids or animals, I don't punch my wife in the face, and I don't remain in bed when it's time to go to work. I have been entrusted with meeting certain needs. I willingly entered into those commitments.


So meaning, you arent ready to day no to sex. Good for you :-D. 
You know, for me, my reason to say no to sex, is when it is not the sex I want. Dont get me wrong, I dont always turn down my wife, but there are times I have expectations and if these are not beieng met and I notice I am beieng forced to either get angry or be nice and conform to her (which is not manly when she is not meeting your needs!!), I rather say no. As simple as that. No bad feelings. I hug her, give a kiss and good night.
My/Our rule: We both get what we want so long we give the other often enough what he/she wants. No discussions.

The truth is, me not getting the sex I want is = me not in the mood. Full Stop.



> Their needs don't vanish on the days I don't feel like meeting them.


Yes they dont. But I dont get your point here?



always_alone said:


> Apparently some women really just don't want sex, or at least are more than happy to take extended breaks. *And it has nothing to do with whether the man is alpha, beta, gamma or whatever.
> *
> One example can be found in this book:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/16/books/the-art-of-sleeping-alone-sophie-fontanels-memoir.html?_r=0


That is true. But as I said, if she was into sex at the beginning. She has not changed, unless due to sickness or age.

By the way. there are woman who state they hate guys hitting on them. Ever been to a place with these women, where guys hitted on other women more than on them?

*Wanting sth depends on how much you have from it in relation to how much others have it.*

Trying to get Sex from a woman is just as much of approval as hitting on a random woman. The difference is one is more direct than the other. Either way, it is up to the woman to get turned on or not. If she isnt, the reaction is the same, only that as a husband or boyfriend, the reaction/neglection appears to be more friendly or indirect.
In a relationship you are in the dilema that you will soon try again on the same woman. Ever tried too hard to hit on a woman who you dodnt or slightly know? No matter what, the line always snaps. Beieng in a marriage/relationship is just the same in different colours.



Faithful Wife said:


> tyler...I agree that if any spouse is truly LD, then nothing the other spouse does can "make" them be higher D.
> 
> The LD spouse can choose to address it themselves for their own reasons, but if they don't choose to, the HD spouse is S.O.L.


This is surely true. What is forgotten is what fuels LD-Spouses:

Too much comfort. A man who believes to have his right woman while the woman is always the one taking care of the sex matter, will soon react to her initiations as if she were cooking the same food every day. The difference to sex and food is that the need to eat cannot not be entirely distracted from our minds! But sex:
.. is approval, and knowing you can always get it, makes you forget about it.

*It is like complaining about a hot summer, while in winter comlaining about a cold winter. Every time you are satisfied, your focus changes onto what you dont have!*


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Maso,

Another flaw in your post to me is that she NEVER initiates. Even if after I stopped. No flirting, no sexting, no initiating, nada. There is nothing to reject. The word, sex, does not come up. I am actually more physically fit now then when we met. I do all of the usual man stuff around the house. I do it all without her even knowing. I do not seek approval. Again, it is just like I am single.

In the meantime, I have adapted a strategy of pulling away. If she wants it, she can come my way. I got tired of being rejected and her showing zero interest. If she wants to be roommates then so be it.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> I have not initiated in six months. I live pretty much the same life as I did when I was single. I take care of all of my mundane daily needs and entertain myself. The result: even less interest than before. She actually seems to welcome my lack of initiating. We are roommates. I do not whine, complain, or even talk about our nonexistent sex life.


Your relationship too each other is too smooth. Any areas which you are a chalenge.
You can be her best friend for years and not initiate and she will never be interested.

The different between you beieng her potential lover or her best friend is that the best friend truely has no rough edges. She is never forced to do thing for him in order to be in good grace with him.
The potential lover views himself from a high stand point. He has come to the belief that people have to meet certain standards in order to live with him. They not meeting this standard means him withdrawing his attention from them.

So you say you live like a single. There are singles who run danger to be laid every night and there are singles who run danger of nothing.

Ever decided NOT to come hom over a weekend, without saying where you are going?

Or is it that she knows your major steps? Keyword *prediction*.

Do you decide that you are inviting friends for a beer next week?

Tyler. Initiating sex arent the only initiations needed to get more sex. It is beieng in control of most of the tension between both of you.

Do you initiate going out for dinner with her and decide to control your frustration about sex when out?

If you are only doing things that usually lead to sex with an agenda of getting sex, u aint getting sex.

And if you are overdoing your attention of doing things that usually lead to sex, and also those that dont, then u aint getting sex either..

Your standpoint of you seeing yourself as the victim is projected in your smallest movements in her presence. Better try seeing yourself as a man who is havin his life in hand and who can make his wife happy, but disapporve of her when he wants too or needs too.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I am stupid when it comes to women. I mean just a complete moron. Even when I know I should or shouldnt do something I tend to do the opposite. I have no doubt that a lot of my behaviours (including excessive weight gain) has caused my wife to absolutely have zero sexual feelings for me.

But I know I'm not a lost cause because I still get offers from other women. I don't talk about my sht of a marriage to other people except on here, so these women must have radar. Anyways, my point is, I never trust any advice that deals in absolutes.

Your 9 reasons deal in absolutes even though you give a myriad of examples and justifications to back them up. People are far too complex and women especially. 

My wife for instance has always been quite prudish but never had a problem engaging in sex with me until after our first child was born. I dont really think my situation fits any of your reasons except the one about looking good to her. But again...I still look good to others so it's hard to gauge.

Again, my point is that changing the things you've mentioned has no guarantees. And in my particular case after dropping 40lbs...it still had zero affect.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Charlie,
By itself, it was a good decision not to initiate that night. 

'Date nights' can be a great way to stay connected. 

However, 'Expensive' date nights (when you are sexually starved) signal to your spouse that you are so desperate to have sex, you are willing to spend money irrationally in the 'hope' of getting laid. 

As for not spending 'quality time' together in a one on one sense, that is a huge issue. 



QUOTE=ChargingCharlie;4429306]Damn, Tyler, you sound like me. We both share with the kids, but when they're in bed, it becomes our separate times. No thoughts whatsoever of sex. I don't even bother, and if I'm really in the mood, I'll take care of it in the shower the next morning (she's out of the house by then). 

I relayed some time back the story of how we went out for a real nice dinner at an expensive restaurant back in the winter. Got a babysitter, and went out and had a nice dinner. We were going to go to another place for drinks, then home. As it happened, friends of ours invited us over to their house, so we went over there instead. When we got home and sent the babysitter home, wife goes and gets her flannel PJ's on, telling me that if I really wanted sex, she would go along, but that she was really tired. Sensing that she wouldn't be into it, I told her to forget it. I'm not going to be party to duty sex.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Maso...I agree with a lot of what you are writing, but some women and men are simply LD and there is no way to change them.
> 
> I would hesitate to broadcast the idea that your ideas would work for any man.
> 
> Also you seem to be unaware that many women are the higher desire partner in a relationship. Some men just aren't that sexual.


As I said. If this situation was there at the beginning (first month), then that is a LD-Issue. If not, it rather is:


> Too much comfort. A man who believes to have his right woman while the woman is always the one taking care of the sex matter, will soon react to her initiations as if she were cooking the same food every day. The difference to sex and food is that the need to eat cannot not be entirely distracted from our minds! But sex:
> .. is approval, and knowing you can always get it, makes you forget about it.





tyler1978 said:


> Maso,
> 
> Another flaw in your post to me is that she NEVER initiates. Even if after I stopped. No flirting, no sexting, no initiating, nada. There is nothing to reject. The word, sex, does not come up. I am actually more physically fit now then when we met. I do all of the usual man stuff around the house. I do it all without her even knowing. I do not seek approval. Again, it is just like I am single.
> 
> In the meantime, I have adapted a strategy of pulling away. If she wants it, she can come my way. I got tired of being rejected and her showing zero interest. If she wants to be roommates then so be it.


Find out what fuels her comfort zone. If you are a part of the fuel in way, make sure u take that part away.

Wait for her to react.

And u not beieng sexual at all is not going to help as I mentioned. Creating sexual tension is about not hiding that you are a sexual beieng and about giving sexual attention and withdrawing it. Not doing anything only helps when she has bit th bait.

Because of your engagement in this thread I would like to let you try the following in the next 2 weeks. This has often helped.

1. Find out in which points she is dependant from u, because that is a part of the fuel of her comfort zone
2. Make it a habbit to do 1-2 sexual a day moves on her WITHOUT waiting for reaction. So make sure u always have an aim to which u aim to after doing the move.
Potental moves to do:
- Spank her
- Give her a kiss when you are leaving the house or when she just did sth for u
- tell her when she has sth nice or new on AND make sure u tell her about sth that is not fitting on her (be playful). The aim is to provoke both of u into up and downs. Someone has to start, so before her lover starts, make sure u do it. U have nothing to lose because she aint into sex right now anyway, so better get some emotions (good and bad) into play.

3. I am proud that u help at home. Most men become passive aggresive and dont. So keep it up but..

4. Make sure that u give her 1-2 small assignments every day.
Examples:
- While u wash the dishes, tell her to make you some coffee or put some beer into the fridge
- While you bring out the trash, let her make some coffee
- While she leaves the house, let her buy you some cigarettes or chewing gums on her way back

5. Make sure the kids are doing little assignment for U and for HER too.

The aim in point 4 and 5 is to drive up comliance in the family. This refers to the Ben Franklin effect, which states that doing things for someone, creates a will to do more for him. This is due to the increase of respect on a rather animalistic unconcious level. Solong you apreciate (not always, but mostly!) this effect will not subside.
Dont make the mistake to ask for sth several times or to get angry when not done your way. Ignore failures and aknowledge compliance.

Dont be afraid of the good feeling tah comes up when treated like the head of the house! Just dont make a big deal of it.

6. Keep it up with whatever you are doing right now.
Maybe u are doing many right things, but these arent beieng done in a way that you are percieved as a strong personality.

When u start to believe that each behaviour has its down- an upside and you decide to learn when to make use of the upsides, you win for yourself. You cannot win for others. They can only decide to join the winning team.

So beieng too Alpha is bad, being never Beta is bad. Make the good of it.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Meso said: "This is surely true. What is forgotten is what fuels LD-Spouses."


If you think that all LD spouses are LD due to relationship issues, you are wrong. Have you not seen the research on how a new relationship will cause chemical changes and an artificial rise in sex drive? And after a given period (usually 3 - 4 years) your drive will return to normal. Therefore, people will mistake their higher sex drive during the new part of a relationship as being their real sex drive, but it isn't.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Your relationship too each other is too smooth. Any areas which you are a chalenge.
> You can be her best friend for years and not initiate and she will never be interested.
> 
> The different between you beieng her potential lover or her best friend is that the best friend truely has no rough edges. She is never forced to do thing for him in order to be in good grace with him.
> ...


Maybe that is the issue. We are the best of friends. I am naturally a pretty mellow person. Also, very introverted. If what someone does or says is not favorable to me, I simply go on with life without them. If I want to do something, her approval is not necessary. I include her as a courtesy. That is one of the reasons that we chose each other. We do not rain on each other’s parade.

She does not masturbate, EVER. She does not talk about it. How do you explain a complete and utter lack of interest in sex with anybody, let alone me? I have withdrawn my attention and there has been no reaction. Not positive nor negative. 

We go out to dinner but there really is no pattern to it. It is never a "date night". We go out because we are both hungry and do not want to cook.

Yes, she does know my routine very well. I am a person of routine; married or not.


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

OP, I await your companion post for the sex-deprived women on the board.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

sinnister said:


> Anyways, my point is, I never trust any advice that deals in absolutes.


Neither do I. The thing is that action with confidence needs you to aim. An aim needs to be absolute, even it its the wrong one. Blury aims tend to blury results.

So better absolute and clear. Then change when wrong, than blury making you never press the trigger.



> Your 9 reasons deal in absolutes even though you give a myriad of examples and justifications to back them up.


The examples and justifications are field tested. Which can let u asume that most people react the same to similar situations.



> People are far too complex and women especially.


When u believe that YOU are complex too. You stop focusing too much on what is good for your woman, rather than what is good for you.
The problem in trying to deal with a complex thing is that you try too hard. On a long run, u can never hide that u are trying too hard, thus making you needy. I think we are on the same page here that beieng needy, no matter in what situation (meaning not only sex) can become a reason to turn down someone (for anything, no matter how small), not because you believe you are turning him/her down, but because you believe you need to free yourself from them or their influence.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

S,
Getting laid is very different than staying laid. 

If everything remains the same, will you stay married after the youngest child leaves the house? 



QUOTE=sinnister;4430018]I am stupid when it comes to women. I mean just a complete moron. Even when I know I should or shouldnt do something I tend to do the opposite. I have no doubt that a lot of my behaviours (including excessive weight gain) has caused my wife to absolutely have zero sexual feelings for me.

But I know I'm not a lost cause because I still get offers from other women. I don't talk about my sht of a marriage to other people except on here, so these women must have radar. Anyways, my point is, I never trust any advice that deals in absolutes.

Your 9 reasons deal in absolutes even though you give a myriad of examples and justifications to back them up. People are far too complex and women especially. 

My wife for instance has always been quite prudish but never had a problem engaging in sex with me until after our first child was born. I dont really think my situation fits any of your reasons except the one about looking good to her. But again...I still look good to others so it's hard to gauge.

Again, my point is that changing the things you've mentioned has no guarantees. And in my particular case after dropping 40lbs...it still had zero affect.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Meso said: "This is surely true. What is forgotten is what fuels LD-Spouses."
> 
> 
> If you think that all LD spouses are LD due to relationship issues, you are wrong. Have you not seen the research on how a new relationship will cause chemical changes and an artificial rise in sex drive?


When it comes to sex and relationship, never believe each study you see. Why is that? 
One reason (there are several more): The complex situations which differ in each realtationship makes thos who participate in the study state the oppinions to a matter from different point of views. Especially when it comes to sex! It aint about talking about what dinner is the best or which clothes fit who best. This is a matter that some approach with hight emotions or with coldest indifference. How do you sieve which personality? So a partner who says the partner is LD, does not really know if that is true or not. This person is just saying what he/she believes.



> And after a given period (usually 3 - 4 years) your drive will return to normal. Therefore, people will mistake their higher sex drive during the new part of a relationship as being their real sex drive, but it isn't.


This is true. The chemics at the beginning are a key factor. But when it comes to the long term sex drive, yes it will go down. But we are not talking about it going down for both partners equally. The case here is one on high, the other on low. According to that study, it will mean that the people here not getting enough sex would feel less HD after some years, no matter what the drive of the partner is. 
The reality shows, those getting less sex dont question the amount of sex drive they have. The only point they actually are paying attention to, is the lesser sex drive of the partner.




Convection said:


> OP, I await your companion post for the sex-deprived women on the board.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Though the reasons are similar, this is more to the men.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> S,
> Getting laid is very different than staying laid.
> 
> If everything remains the same, will you stay married after the youngest child leaves the house?


Before I met her I never thought that I could ever feel this way about a woman. But I would have to say yes this question. Too much damage and resentment has been built up. Right now I try to avoid the angry outbursts and wait out the next 15 years until youngest goes away to university. It's a sad marriage.

Just yesterday she said to me, "you know, I don't really do anything for you". 

Me: Why not?
Her: I don't know.
Me: Well don't worry about it.
Her: No, it's just sad.

What does a man like me do in this situation. She doesn't give a damn. She knows I won't leave. She says she knows I'll probably cheat. Doesn't matter to her.

Believe me...I have tried everything written on these and many other boards.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

always_alone said:


> Apparently some women really just don't want sex, or at least are more than happy to take extended breaks. And it has nothing to do with whether the man is alpha, beta, gamma or whatever.


I agree. I've given the example more than once here of my late FIL, who was six foot eight and an officer in SAC at the height of the cold war. His wife slept in a separate bedroom for the last twenty five years of his life. 

Men and women can water a rock all they want. --That's not going to make it grow...


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I tend to put a lot of stock in the posters I read who have been through it and found what actually works. I tend to put very little stock in posters who come off like they know everything, and feel the need to put their credentials in their username.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> I agree. I've given the example more than once here of my late FIL, who was six foot eight and an officer in SAC at the height of the cold war. His wife slept in a separate bedroom for the last twenty five years of his life.
> 
> Men and women can water a rock all they want. --That's not going to make it grow...


She stole 25 years of sexual life for him? What did he do about it?


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

treyvion said:


> She stole 25 years of sexual life for him? What did he do about it?


He belonged to the same conservative Christian sect that my wife does, which forbids divorce for any reason except physical infidelity. He stayed true to those beliefs.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> He belonged to the same conservative Christian sect that my wife does, which forbids divorce for any reason except physical infidelity. He stayed true to those beliefs.


They must also not believe in sexual intercourse other than procreation.

It is not of my belief system.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

sinnister said:


> Before I met her I never thought that I could ever feel this way about a woman. But I would have to say yes this question. Too much damage and resentment has been built up. Right now I try to avoid the angry outbursts and wait out the next 15 years until youngest goes away to university. It's a sad marriage.
> 
> Just yesterday she said to me, "you know, I don't really do anything for you".
> 
> ...


Actually she is right to treat you that way (sorry to be so harsch). One sometimes gets what he deserves. You not letting her do things for you but pittying yourself when she actually even points the fact out, proves to her why she aint doing nothing for you.

"Why should she, he doesnt seem to want anything."

Ever known someone in your life who was always fine with almost everything? People tended to forget him/her.

Dont be an *ss who want too much, but you need to want at least sth. And dont start of with "I want sex".

Just remember the Ben Franklin effect. You need to want thing in this world otherwise you end up not getting anything because you want.. nothing.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I tend to put a lot of stock in the posters I read who have been through it and found what actually works. I tend to put very little stock in posters who come off like they know everything, and feel the need to put their credentials in their username.


What if I told you, I aint a psychologist ;-). What if that is what felt best for me as a user name.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"According to that study, it will mean that the people here not getting enough sex would feel less HD after some years, no matter what the drive of the partner is. 
The reality shows, those getting less sex dont question the amount of sex drive they have. The only point they actually are paying attention to, is the lesser sex drive of the partner."


When a person is HD by their very nature, they may or may not have a drop in sex drive depending on relationship issues. I don't see why you'd like to box everyone in the same box?

There are people who are HD who will always be HD regardless of the state of the relationship, good or bad. I am in that category.

Then there are people who are HD who will have a drop in sex drive due to relationship issues that can be fixed. Those people will most likely be driven to fix those issues so that they can get back to a good sex life.

Then there are people who are LD but may be HD for awhile at the beginning of a relationship. Those people will usually not increase their drive unless they consciously choose to increase it.

So by trying to paint everyone as if they actually have some kind of control over their partner's desire level, it just isn't true.

Like I said, in your original post, you laid out some issues that many people could use to improve their sex lives. Men and women both need tools and skills to use for this, so I liked your post.

It is just when you start assuming the same advice will work for everyone and we are all the same that I have to doubt what you are saying.


----------



## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I tend to put a lot of stock in the posters I read who have been through it and found what actually works. I tend to put very little stock in posters who come off like they know everything, and feel the need to put their credentials in their username.


Agreed.

And I dont put much stock in people that tells someone its their fault that his wife doesnt do much for him and apparently doesnt give much of a sh!t about it.

And I didnt read all of the 9 reasons. Seemed like an awful lot of jumping through hoops.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> I have not initiated in six months. I live pretty much the same life as I did when I was single. I take care of all of my mundane daily needs and entertain myself. The result: even less interest than before. She actually seems to welcome my lack of initiating. We are roommates. I do not whine, complain, or even talk about our nonexistent sex life.


Not everyone acts this way. My wife, the lovely Dr. Mrs. LD would be fine with awesome monthly nookie. After a while it got old and I decided to drop out of commission. Three months later she started initiating then I politely declined again. It got pretty ugly till I finally have in and we had the best nookie in recent memory. Unfortunately the success could not be duplicated as the good Dr. Reverted to her monthly habit. 

At the same time, while the nookie was awesome and worthy of the multiple hours it consumed, it was also extremely meaningless once the hormonal rush faded. I felt like krap afterwards, total lack of connection, fulfillment, the works. If I ever had done an ONS it would probably feel like that...

So I decided to drop out for good unless the situation is resolved... After the requisite couple months she started again, was shot down again, and so on. Now she's playing cool....

Except the last few nights we've moved to a different bedroom with a smaller bed (queen) and she is visibly uncomfortable. Last night as far as I could tell she was in rotisserie mode... I slept like a kitten as I always do. 

This week is her birthday. Good luck with that Dr. Trying to talk about the issue reveals her idea of nookie frequency is indeed monthly and nothing can change it. Since this frequency is meaningless unless one of us is in the merchant marine, I'll leave it at that. If a discussion occurs. She projects that I want nookie daily, addict, blah blah. Well good luck there too.

as long as the tuition checks keep coming we pretend to have a loving marriage...


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

Middle of Everything said:


> Agreed.
> 
> And I dont put much stock in people that tells someone its their fault that his wife doesnt do much for him and apparently doesnt give much of a sh!t about it.
> *
> And I didnt read all of the 9 reasons. * Seemed like an awful lot of jumping through hoops.


That is so brave of you to then dare commenting. As i understand, one should only critisize what he has dealt with not what he believes to be dealing with.

It is interesting how many men start of reading with the mindset of opposing what they believe to read.


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> What if I told you, I aint a psychologist ;-). What if that is what felt best for me as a user name.


Then I would refer to your own post, where you said:



Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> As a therapist and psychologist myself ....


I think I've read enough.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

john117 said:


> Not everyone acts this way. My wife, the lovely Dr. Mrs. LD would be fine with awesome monthly nookie. After a while it got old and I decided to drop out of commission. Three months later she started initiating then I politely declined again. It got pretty ugly till I finally have in and we had the best nookie in recent memory. Unfortunately the success could not be duplicated as the good Dr. Reverted to her monthly habit.
> 
> At the same time, while the nookie was awesome and worthy of the multiple hours it consumed, it was also extremely meaningless once the hormonal rush faded. I felt like krap afterwards, total lack of connection, fulfillment, the works. If I ever had done an ONS it would probably feel like that...
> 
> ...


I am going to stop after this one because I have beat the dead horse enough. When I stopped initiating, the idea of sex simply dissipated into thin air. I would welcome some complaining or concern. Instead, just cold indifference. She shows zero interest. As a result, I have started doing my own thing more often. If we are going to be de facto roommates then why does it matter?


----------



## Onzo (Sep 23, 2013)

Convection said:


> Then I would refer to your own post, where you said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I've read enough.


Convection, you seem quite bitter about Psy. I have been silent reading and admit his posts are not conventional and mostly harsh. But I think just because he puts his credentials into his username does not mean he talks crap.

It is up to you to believe what you hear or read. But judging directly from a username (I have to admit, putting credentials is a bit nosy though) and fixing your opinion actually misses the point of community boards. Where should that end when people decide to overread (potential information) just because the arent accord with the users name or whateever.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

S,
This wasn't a statement it was a question.

Her: How big a problem is it that I have totally deprioritized you?
You: It's ok

Your issue is not that you are unwilling to divorce her. It is that you are unwilling to balance the marriage. 

Balancing it would look like this:
1. She gets a full time job. 
2. You treat her the same way you would treat a male roommate who you were sharing childcare responsibilities with. That means that most of your money, going forward will go into your own account - that gets managed in a way so that you keep it when he marriage ends in 15 years. 
3. Ideally you insist on a post nuptial that limits her payout in a divorce. 

The truth is that you are the sole breadwinner. By continuing in that role you reinforce her notion that her needs matter and yours don't. 

She might divorce you, but she might also come to her senses. 



sinnister said:


> Before I met her I never thought that I could ever feel this way about a woman. But I would have to say yes this question. Too much damage and resentment has been built up. Right now I try to avoid the angry outbursts and wait out the next 15 years until youngest goes away to university. It's a sad marriage.
> 
> Just yesterday she said to me, "you know, I don't really do anything for you".
> 
> ...


----------



## Onzo (Sep 23, 2013)

@ Psy

I just want to adress the issue of you beieng a bit harsh in you anwers. Just today morning I have experienced how it feels when someone gives you advice to your relationship though you have already worked very hard on it. It makes you feel stupid..

But.. I reread your 9 reasons again this morning and I have to admit that each time I overflew it again, I still found sth new I had unconciously overread the first time. I am sure that if you are truly a psychologist you will know that most people reading the entry post have already made up their mind about it. So had I, then you stated the 10th reason which actually made me angry, imagine, I have really been consistent in working on myself. 

I then wanted to find sth from the 9 reasons which could help me contradict you, but then I noticed that there is so much to contradict, but also a lot of truth, this making me actually ignorant. I am glad you took the time to explain your point of vier to some posters like tyler and co. I believe that it wount help them because they actually didnt read what you wrote because their minds were already made up.. just like mine at the beginning. The problem is that though I have the feeling you are somewhere right, I dont believe that it is worth it for me to do such an effort anymore.

I am currently writing a journal in this section and would be glad to hear from your rather unconventional opinion.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Onzo said:


> @ Psy
> 
> I just want to adress the issue of you beieng a bit harsh in you anwers. Just today morning I have experienced how it feels when someone gives you advice to your relationship though you have already worked very hard on it. It makes you feel stupid..
> 
> ...


To address my supposed ignorance, I read stuff like the OP years ago and gave them an honest try. The result: even less sex, passion, and desire than before. Had I not tried them already and given this some considerable thought, i would be lapping this stuff up like a dog because there is some truth to it. However, it is not a one-size-fits-all solution. Everything listed depends on the partner having at least some desire. Not in my case.


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

When I was married, all my free time was devoted to thinking about the sex I wasn't having. Now that I no longer have my "devoted" cheating ex wife, I am able to spend time thinking of other enjoyable things to do with the ladies I see from time to time because they manage to do all the thinking about sex, necessary for both of us.


----------



## Onzo (Sep 23, 2013)

@ Tyler



tyler1978 said:


> To address my supposed ignorance, I read stuff like the OP years ago and gave them an honest try. The result: even less sex, passion, and desire than before. Had I not tried them already and given this some considerable thought, i would be lapping this stuff up like a dog because there is some truth to it. However, it is not a one-size-fits-all solution. Everything listed depends on the partner having at least some desire. Not in my case.


Sounds reasonable.

About the one-size-sits-all solution:


> 1. Find out in which points she is dependant from u, because that is a part of the fuel of her comfort zone
> 2. Make it a habbit to do 1-2 sexual a day moves on her WITHOUT waiting for reaction. So make sure u always have an aim to which u aim to after doing the move.
> Potental moves to do:
> - Spank her
> ...


You sound to have tried out Psys advice before. What are you experiences with it. I am in quite the same situation like you and probably I could spare myself some headache if you could in short sketch your experiences to those points.

I would really appreciate. Thank you.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Onzo said:


> @ Tyler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First, I am no expert. I am just going to relay what I tried and the result. I am going to address just a few specifically. This is just to keep the response down to a reasonable length.

First, I will address 2.
I realized that I could be smothering her. I was always touching, rubbing, massaging, kissing, etc. Usually non-sexual in nature. So, I started toning it down a bit. So in the morning, I would do the quick spank and then take off on my bike. Additionally, I would assign her tasks such as making sure the cats do not get out and then give me a quick kiss once she did it. Tasks that are specific to our morning routine. Result: life just as it was before. 

Second, about the housework. It has always been a team effort. We have never argued about it nor probably ever will. I do not need to assert myself in this being that we have always been equal partners in that. No one is being taken advantage of. We both ask for things to be done and it gets done. 

Third, I began to “assign” her tasks such as preparing the side dish while I tend to the meat/main dish. Other examples are having her move laundry or grab certain things at the store. This is not my style usually. I am independent to no end and if I want it, I make it happen. I don’t rely on anybody to make my life happen. The result has been somewhat mixed. She seems to like the affection but never the sex. 

Finally, while not mentioned I tried being more manly. Meaning that I would cut down the tree in the back yard, fix the cars, etc. I do with no expectation of being rewarded in any way. I did it because it needed to be done. Again, no change. 
She never masturbates, reads romance novels, watches chick flicks, or even talks about it. I have asserted myself and became more vocal. That is quite the effort considering that I have always been a bit of a loner that keeps my wants/needs to myself. Life has not changed in any way since I started making these changes roughly 18 months ago.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tyler,
I am curious, what did you do? Anything from the list below? 
Did you start with an honest question for yourself:
- How much of this problem comes from general relationship issues?
- How much of it comes from raw sexual compatibility? 

Most people in a sexless marriage don't know. And that's ok. Seems to me that if a couple doesn't have sufficient respect, trust and communication about non-sexual, but difficult topics, there is little chance they will be able to understand and address scary/awkward sexual disconnects. 

Respect: 
- How much of your focus was on increasing her respect for you? That would include her respect for your priorities and feelings? 
- With regard to her respect for you:
How do you measure it? (How does she expect/demand to be treated by other people, how does she treat her family and close friends and how does that compare to the way she treats you)
- How do you build/earn her respect (learning something new, teaching the kids something, doing a handyman job that is challenging)
What do you do to demand respect when it isn't given? 
- What fun stuff do you two enjoy doing as a couple? 
- How often are you the one who is injecting positive emotional energy into the home by way of a playful, upbeat and happy posture? 
- How often are you clearly in a quiet, neutral or kind of down mode? 
- What have you done to make yourself more attractive to women in general? 

Communication:
- How well can you read her tone/body language? 
- How effectively do you communicate with her using tone and body language?

One example of the intersection of these two topics:
How often does either of you initiate and continue a meaningful conversation while your spouses attention is clearly impaired by reading, surfing, playing a game? 





tyler1978 said:


> To address my supposed ignorance, I read stuff like the OP years ago and gave them an honest try. The result: even less sex, passion, and desire than before. Had I not tried them already and given this some considerable thought, i would be lapping this stuff up like a dog because there is some truth to it. However, it is not a one-size-fits-all solution. Everything listed depends on the partner having at least some desire. Not in my case.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

MEM,

Part of your questions are answered above. As for the others that are not, I will have to get back to you. It is quite thought-provoking.


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

Onzo said:


> Convection, you seem quite bitter about Psy. I have been silent reading and admit his posts are not conventional and mostly harsh. But I think just because he puts his credentials into his username does not mean he talks crap.
> 
> It is up to you to believe what you hear or read. But judging directly from a username (I have to admit, putting credentials is a bit nosy though) and fixing your opinion actually misses the point of community boards. Where should that end when people decide to overread (potential information) just because the arent accord with the users name or whateever.


Shrug. I am not bitter nor am I particularly concerned about his credentials one way or the other, but only pointing out his own inconsistencies. I am not in the demographic he was addressing in his initial post. On that basis, I admit I shouldn't have posted from the get-go and will refrain from doing so again on this thread.

I simply find his insistence to men (Tyler and Charlie) with LD women that they haven't done enough somewhat odd. It's not always something the higher drive partner does or doesn't do.

Peace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

A lot of this I've already done for a long time. No sex difference.

LD for a woman could be as simple how she feels about herself and her body. How she was raised. How she was treated by her ex bf, etc. If she's insecure, she won't change no matter what.


----------



## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> 10. You married an evil bat.


:smthumbup: I second, third, and fourth this!:iagree:


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Yes, that is right. Believe me, *when your wife and you had frequent sex at the beginning of the relationship, she has interest*. Just it is not there now, and especially not for the you of today. The future you, more probably.



Sorry, stopped after page 2 or 3, but felt compelled to comment about the part I bolded. Someone else has probably already pointed it out, but on the off-chance they haven't...

We've ALL seen plenty of evidence here on TAM of bait-and-switch! Logically, we've all seen/read about it in real life. OP: Do you REALLY BELIEVE that all those 20-something girls marrying 60- or 70-year old RICH geezers are REALLY enthusiastically into sex with him? Or is it more likely that that is the price they have to pay to 'seal the deal'?

They might screw his brains out before the marriage (to insure they get the ring and the "I do's"), but you can well believe that they are not nearly so enthusiastic or willing AFTER the marriage to continue to have wild monkey sex with him! It totally disproves the bolded part of your statement: they were NEVER interested in sex with him, it was just a means to an end.

There is nothing inherenty wrong with your suggestions other than the implication that EVERY woman who feigned enthusiasm for sex pre-marriage was sincere! (The same could be said for some men.)


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Tyler,
> I am curious, what did you do? Anything from the list below?
> Did you start with an honest question for yourself:
> - How much of this problem comes from general relationship issues?
> ...


I will answer what I have done from the OP. But first, your two questions.

Relationship Issues- I was blinded by the fact that we get along so well outside of the bedroom. We rarely argue and we seem to complement each other quite well. If we are in a time crunch, we are the perfect team. 

Sexual compatibility- I am thinking that this may be an issue. She has never voiced any displeasure. However, I am thinking that there must be something. I have tried to talk about it but I get the usual line that all is fine. 

Respect: Honestly, I am not sure what to say. She seems to have a healthy level of respect for me. I could be wrong. She expects to be treated fairly and with respect by people, in general. She has a very healthy relationship with her family. They communicate often and know each other’s boundaries. They are of higher priority to her than I am. 

Shared activities- Our main mutual activity is cooking. This is not just to make dinner on a given night. We have very elaborate meals where both of us make certain items. It is quite nice. Other activities that we do are concerts, traveling, and an occasional hike

Solutions from OP
1. she is always tired and so I do all that I can to get her to bed and so on.

2. Illness is rarely an issue. When it is, I let her be.

3. She is rarely angry with me. That would be an improvement to be honest.

4. I may have been pressuring her for a while. I read an article that talked about the same stuff as the OP in early 2012. So I backed off. Instead of initiating 2 or 3 times a week, I lowered it to once every two weeks. When I would initiate, I tried two strategies. One, the slow and steady route. Texting, flirting, and so on throughout the day. Two, just walk in at night and go for it. Neither worked. 

5. Attention. I admit that I would give her lots of attention. She always seemed to like it and appreciate it. She would stop what she is doing and revel in the moment. In the last six months, I have pretty much ignored her and life has not changed. Most of this section assumes that she shows some interest and pursues me. Not in the least.

6. I read about this one a while ago and started riding the bike more often. At the moment, I ride about 50 miles a week. This is quite the task in mountainous Northern Nevada. In addition, I have picked up the hobby of going on marathon bike rides. 80 to 120 miles in a day. It helps my self confidence and gives me something to do. In addition, I started stepping up my role as handy man. Some because of advice but some of it because I needed a challenge. Most of the time it is quite satisfying on a personal level. About friends, I have never had a lot of friends but I have made some concerted attempts to have a social life outside of her. Depending on who it is, she likes it or silently tolerates it. Again, no change whatsoever. 

7. I will not address every point in this section. In short, this has been the biggest challenge. I had severe issues growing up and so learned to be very self-reliant and independent. One of my issues is that I rarely voice my concerns. Growing up, we were taught to attempt to fix the problem before whining about it. As a result, I have started asking her to do things for me such as shopping, giving me rides, and such. Prior to that time, I pretty much steered my own ship and it seemed to work. I was this way for the first three or four years when our sex life was ok. Again, I never turn her down because she has not initiated in 3+ years. You can’t reject nothing.

8. Maybe I am not sexy. It’s possible. I am in great physical shape and think that I have a great life. I am not a downer by any means. Of the two of us, I am the one that is alive and content more often than not. She rarely has the energy that I have. 

9. I have quit initiating, flirting, sexting, etc. I make absolutely no attempt or indication. The result, absolutely no change. 
I am trying to not get too discouraged but few things have ever bothered me like this. 

Finally, initiating conversation. Both of us do it but I would probably the primary initiator. We talk about a wide array of topics. She seems to be engaged and interested most of the time. I am quite adept at picking people's brains and getting them to talk and this is no exception. I am a great listener and use it with her. I was under the impression that people (women especially) like and respect this but apparently not.

Sorry about the long reply.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

In the Men's Clubhouse section, there is a thread called, "What I learned in the Past year". I found it quite interesting and revealing. The other men stuck in sexless marriages should read it as well. There is a list of 10 things that you could do. I have done most of them to no avail but it is still really good stuff.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> I hate to be contrarian but a lot of this does not apply to my situation. My wife shows zero interest in sex. She is 100% indifferent to it. She is not upset at not having it. We talk about it and she voices no issues or concerns. It has been three months now and she is not bothered in the least bit. Besides sex, we get along like magic. I have quit initiating and life has not changed in the least bit. I am not sure that anything on my end is going to change this.


I think you are married to my wife's sister....


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Sorry, stopped after page 2 or 3, but felt compelled to comment about the part I bolded. Someone else has probably already pointed it out, but on the off-chance they haven't...
> 
> *We've ALL seen plenty of evidence here on TAM of bait-and-switch! Logically, we've all seen/read about it in real life. OP: Do you REALLY BELIEVE that all those 20-something girls marrying 60- or 70-year old RICH geezers are REALLY enthusiastically into sex with him? Or is it more likely that that is the price they have to pay to 'seal the deal'?
> *
> ...


You see, because of trying to view and handle things from a logical point of view you even forget to understand what you are writing..

I said that if a partner was high drive at the beginning, then the partner still is even after years.
What you are talking about, is a partner who was never into the other partner and rather used the sex as a hook and not because of own pleasure.

I am talking about partners who were truly into each other at the beginning and saying that if that was so and there are no deep psychological or health issues, then the drives have gone down because the partner who gave sex lesser attention falls into the comfort zone.
The one who was always working hard on sex or giving the most approval away for it is the one that later pays the check and end up complaining about a LD-Partner.

As I said, imagine you were served the same dish every evening for free, you would soon be tired of it. But if you had to pay or/and never knew whether it is for sure you would get that dish, you would adore it.

And voilà: The couple not getting sex adores sex!

Well the problem between dishes and sex is that when you are caught in this trap, you can change your cook anytime, but due to our beliefs, morals, duties, society and non-sexual benefits a partner can bring we at first tend to stay.

@tyler

I will respond to your post late.

Best regards

M


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

sinnister said:


> Just yesterday she said to me, "you know, I don't really do anything for you".
> 
> Me: Why not?
> Her: I don't know.
> ...


I now look at exchanges like this and wince. There she was inviting you to step up and call her on her sh!t, and you told her not to worry about it. 

She is perfectly comfortable with your discomfort. So ... make her less comfortable. A lot less.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> @tyler
> 
> I will respond to your post late.


_It is a long post, so take your time. I ll appreciate feedback because I too can learn every day. Thank you._

Ok, lets get on it:

First, thx that you decided to deal with the advice I had given you earlier this thread.



> Relationship Issues- I was blinded by the fact that we get along so well outside of the bedroom. We rarely argue and we seem to complement each other quite well. If we are in a time crunch, we are the perfect team.
> 
> Sexual compatibility- I am thinking that this may be an issue. She has never voiced any displeasure. However, I am thinking that there must be something. I have tried to talk about it but I get the usual line that all is fine.
> 
> ...


There are two things that a Person who is not getting enough sex in a relationship get wrong.

1. Beieng a team in a relationship, kills sexual interest on at least one side. The one who loses the sexual interest first is usually the one who always has had the say of "yes sex" or "no sex". I wontgo into details which psychological mechanism triggers such a response.

There needs to be areas in which you allow no permanent equality. Sometimes it is fine, but not always.

2. Being a long time jerk, or focusing on too many problems of the relationship or of the other person or even of one self, kill sexual energy, not the interest, the energy!

So beieng too long (not too much, big difference!) one one side of the equation is lethal to the sex.

So lets asume a man is doing the MAP, which definetly makes him really attractive to more women, so long as his wife has the feeling to be in the perfect relationship, there is no need for her to feel she needs to change anything. So no matter what the man will ask for when it comes to sex, she still has to decide by her own will if she will go on with the sex, or postpond it, or deny it. It is in her will.

The same for women who are back in best shape, or are buying best lingerie, or are perfect in blowjobs and whatever. So long the man feels he is in a good relationship. You are in the grace of his will as well when it comes to sex.

And what do we humans know about the (own) will. *You want most what you get least! If you are forced to have something, the more you try to liberate yourself from it.*
That is a universal rule. If I am wrong, then please contradict me and explain you point of view to this.

So when it comes to sex, most of the times what spouses who want less sex will do is to justify with different reasons why the arent in the mood. You know the list:


I am tired
I am sick (real sick, headache, etc. etc..)
You could suppport a bit more
You only want me for sex
I am having stress at work
The kids
The weather
The season

The list goes on.. Whoever has been frequently neglected will know more.

The real reason lies in our nature: 

Type 1. They can get it whenever they want.
Or
Type 2. They have personal issues with themselves that cause a bit of self hatred that leads to not feeling comfortable enough for intimacy. This one is really a hard one because especially men keep it to themselves and their wives will never find out, because these men are too proud or ancious to admit having issues in liking themselves or what they do.

Let us just deal with Type 1 here. 
I have even met models who complained about not getting enough sex. And it is no dought, they could hook up with almost anyone they wanted.

Then the situation which each couple knows is that *the first few* withdrawals always has brought back some interest in sex on the other side. 

But why does it never last?

The thing with the will when it comes to sex is. The partner who is not getting enough deals with getting sex from the other for such a long time that it becomes a habit for both of them.
The not-getter always trying to get it and the provider always thinking on how not to have to provide.

So anything that the not-getter will do that states the frame of him/her not getting enough or the frame that the other one is the provider, will just fuel the current position.

SExamples:

- After such a long time of no sex, the provider initiates sex and gets it right away without the not-getter making it a bit tence for him/her.

- When the provider initiates, the not-getter tries to make it difficult or tence by rather complaining how unfair it is that he/she should finally just agree to sex while when they would initiate, they are usually rejected.
YES, it is unfair, but if you understand the psychological bomb you activate by complaining in this way, you will know that you are just strengthening the current habits!

- After the first sex after a long time, the not-getter overwlming the provider

- After the first sex after a long time, the not-getter starting to initiate sex instead of having patients for the provider to come for more

- Finally when the provider is coming for more, going for it like a begger finding a street full of donuts instead of beieng playful in creating a bit of sexual tension

- Allowing the provider to threaten you, e.G.:

a) Either, we are having it now or not at all
b) If you dont do this and that, there will be no..
c) I dont like what you are doing, you have to do it this and that way

The thing is that, whatever worked in the first months of this relationship either has to work now, or you as the not-getter shouldnt agree to that sex.
So if you never had to do special effect stuff in the beginning or never had to fullfil any tasks to get sex, then you are doing best not doing it now, because you are undermining you sexual respect and sexual value to your partner!

*Dont get me wrong. The feeling of having a good relationship is good. But it has to be on both sides!
So if you have the feeling of a good relationship and you believe that sex is fine for both sides, it definately is a good one for both sides. At least in most cases I have dealt with.*

So, Tyler, now to your points:



> 1. she is always tired and so I do all that I can to get her to bed and so on.
> 
> 2. Illness is rarely an issue. When it is, I let her be.


Very good.



> 3. She is rarely angry with me. That would be an improvement to be honest.


You are right, it would be one. That is a sign of her beieng in the comfort zone I have been talking about.



> 4. I may have been pressuring her for a while. I read an article that talked about the same stuff as the OP in early 2012. So I backed off. Instead of initiating 2 or 3 times a week, I lowered it to once every two weeks.


In my experience, you have to be ready to back of for 3 months. But with one difference to your strategy:


> When I would initiate, I tried two strategies. One, the slow and steady route. Texting, flirting, and so on throughout the day. Two, just walk in at night and go for it. Neither worked.


You have to stop initiating overtly! So sexting or taking the slow route are a FAIL! Why!
Whatever you do, your wife will on one time during the process notice where all thsi is leading to, and there -> SNAP! She will be off. Not because she isnt into sex, it is because snapping when things are getting hot has become a habit both of you have fueled in the past years!

The right way to initiate is to initiate at time which there is the least possibility for sex. E.g:

You do something sexual before you go to work, but when you are back in the evening you are passive!

You do something sexual but cleverly bring up an excuse that limits the time of you doing it. Let me refer to a post from Onzo here:


> So by coincidence, Hella had a bit of headache, so I offered a neck massage (nice thing)BUT said that I could only give it for 5 minutes because I was of for running before it became dark (my hobby!). This was important because Steve mentioned that the only way to turn off the reflexes against my physical approaches was to turn down the expectations that anything more was going to happen.
> He remeinded me of our time at high school where we used to invite the girls home to look at pictures or drink a beer but we always checked up for their bus back home first, so they believed it wasnt going to be late and in the end they usually were more relaxed and therefore even were relactant in going home which often usually had lead to sex with them.
> 
> He said it was the same mechanism.
> ...


There are thousand ways to be sexual and ten thousand reasons for you to be able to back off.
So instead of breaking your head what sexual move is right, know that EVERY SEXUAL MOVE IS RIGHT!!! You only have to be the one in the power of giving taking it away!

So any sexual move that needs her approaval is a fail, because you arent in control of taking it away. That is why sexting or approaching at times which are right for sex arent going to work.



> 5. Attention. I admit that I would give her lots of attention. She always seemed to like it and appreciate it. She would stop what she is doing and revel in the moment. In the last six months, I have pretty much ignored her and life has not changed. Most of this section assumes that she shows some interest and pursues me. Not in the least.


This is a comfort zone issue as well. So bring back the attention. Only thing you have to remember is:

1. dont over do it
2. Only do it if you really feel like and not because you want sth.



> 6. I read about this one a while ago and started riding the bike more often. At the moment, I ride about 50 miles a week. This is quite the task in mountainous Northern Nevada. In addition, I have picked up the hobby of going on marathon bike rides. 80 to 120 miles in a day. It helps my self confidence and gives me something to do. In addition, I started stepping up my role as handy man. Some because of advice but some of it because I needed a challenge. Most of the time it is quite satisfying on a personal level. About friends, I have never had a lot of friends but I have made some concerted attempts to have a social life outside of her. Depending on who it is, she likes it or silently tolerates it. Again, no change whatsoever.


No matter how perfect you are, as long as your spouse is in the comfort zone, all perfection is useless when it come to sex.



> 7. I will not address every point in this section. In short, this has been the biggest challenge. I had severe issues growing up and so learned to be very self-reliant and independent. One of my issues is that I rarely voice my concerns. Growing up, we were taught to attempt to fix the problem before whining about it. As a result, I have started asking her to do things for me such as shopping, giving me rides, and such. Prior to that time, I pretty much steered my own ship and it seemed to work. I was this way for the first three or four years when our sex life was ok. Again, I never turn her down because she has not initiated in 3+ years. You can’t reject nothing.


This was my hardest issue as well. I was/am so self reliant, that I neglected the human need to fullfil others we love.

I would for example never want anything big fot my birthday or christmas. I would feel bad when my wife would want to stand up and make me coffee or do sth else for me. And if she did, I would overwelm her in such a way that she later admitted she stopped doing things for me because it didnt feel good to be overwelmed for each little thing. She asked me if I never just felt that beieng able to do sth for someone else was already a type of gratification.. That is when I woke up. *She was right. We need to feel useful!*

But why then make people do things for us instead of letting them come to that idea by themselves?
This is due to Ben-Franklin effect. It states that humans and animals are more likely to do things for someone they are already used to do things for. It becomes a habit.

Look around in your surroundings, you will see that it is usually the same people giving the same people.

The important thing is that it remains on a level of win win situations in most times. Not always! Most times! As my wife said, giving can be a gratification as well.

She aint a psychologist, but as you can see, I was so deep in the material that I overlooked the basics. My fail.



> 8. Maybe I am not sexy. It’s possible. I am in great physical shape and think that I have a great life. I am not a downer by any means. Of the two of us, I am the one that is alive and content more often than not. She rarely has the energy that I have.
> 
> 9. I have quit initiating, flirting, sexting, etc. I make absolutely no attempt or indication. The result, absolutely no change.
> I am trying to not get too discouraged but few things have ever bothered me like this.


Again, comfort zone issue..

You can be sexy to almost all women in the world, but not to your wife, because she is used to the you you are now. 



> Finally, initiating conversation. Both of us do it but I would probably the primary initiator.


That is right. That why dont talk about sex. At least not now.



> We talk about a wide array of topics. She seems to be engaged and interested most of the time. I am quite adept at picking people's brains and getting them to talk and this is no exception. I am a great listener and use it with her.


Keep it up.



> I was under the impression that people (women especially) like and respect this but apparently not.


Dont be foolish. They do. But they only do to people who have some sort of sexual value to them. 
You are an experienced man and know that women usually laugh at the crap a guy talks about because they have been sexually triggerd and not because it is funny. Same rule applies here.
If you wife isnt sexually triggerd by you, she aint gont to be moved by your words.

*And to all reading this: Do not guilt trip your wives when they laugh about sth another man is saying. It is subconcious and an instinct, so be fine with it. if you arent, then make sure you are throwing away all your porn as well and swearing never to be flattered by a sexy woman or never to look at a cute ass that is not you wifes. Get over it!*

And let me remind you that sometimes she will be sexually triggerd by you, but wont react in the sexual manner just because it is a habit of hers not to do so when it comes to you! The only solution is to eliminate all stuff that fuels this reflexes/responses.

The most important one is:

- Dont do anything that states you are her victim. That is why not initiating at times that are usually fine for sexual stuff is so important.

The next important one in my experience now is:

- Push the spouse slowly out of their comfort zone. Be ready for hate and fights. So long you dont get too moved by the hate, fights, guil trips etc.. You are on the right track.



The different between habits and Rom is that, Rom was destroyed very fast while habits die very slowly.


So, in my opinion you have been doing right things but balancing them wrong by trying to be perfect. You better befreind yourself with your bad and darker sides and be ready to test them on your marriage-field.

Greetz

M


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

hookares said:


> When I was married, all my free time was devoted to thinking about the sex I wasn't having. *Now that I no longer have my "devoted" cheating ex wife, I am able to spend time thinking of other enjoyable things to do with the ladies I see from time to time because they manage to do all the thinking about sex, necessary for both of us.*


And that's how it's supposed to be.

But I really feel sorry for a lot of people here in that sexless position.
I think it's downright cruel and smacks of a partner who think they're entitled to do as they please in a marriage.

I believe that if a person knows that they are LD or whatever, they should at least have the decency to remain single.
I also don't believe that a spouse can suddenly become LD after a couple of years in a marriage. And if they " suddenly " do , then they should either be willing to work on it or have an amicable divorce. 
To do otherwise and maintain the sexless status quo sounds incredibly selfish to me.


----------



## HorsesIlove (Oct 7, 2013)

Personally I am more attracted to my mate when he's been working hard doing manly stuff. More so when he's out and about doing stuff.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Maso,

Thanks for the reply. Thought-provoking stuff. I have to admit that your writing style throws me off a bit but it happens.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> Maso,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. Thought-provoking stuff. I have to admit that your writing style throws me off a bit but it happens.


I apologize in case my provocations are sometimes tuff. The thing is, I believe that everyone has to take information by own will. There those who want information in a certain way that they are blinded and then there those who are ready for the information the way it comes.
It is up to everyone to know how much of the own ego needs to be put aside in order to widen the own horizon.

In the end, I have always profitted from learning from others or at least giving what they say some thought. The only requirement I always needed is my will to open my mind (which is not the easiest thing to do).

It has often happend that my wife or friends offered me a solution to a problem, but I didnt give it any significant thought just because of who they were (non-psychologists).. I ve been often proved wrong, because a lot of knowledge can blend you from focusing on what really matters.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> I apologize in case my provocations are sometimes tuff. The thing is, I believe that everyone has to take information by own will. There those who want information in a certain way that they are blinded and then there those who are ready for the information the way it comes.
> It is up to everyone to know how much of the own ego needs to be put aside in order to widen the own horizon.
> 
> In the end, I have always profitted from learning from others or at least giving what they say some thought. The only requirement I always needed is my will to open my mind (which is not the easiest thing to do).
> ...


Your writing style does not throw me off because it is too "in my face" or too honest. It is simply a matter of preference and style . Do not take it this as my discounting what you write. I simply find it occasionally difficult to discern completely what I am reading. Oh well, to each their own.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> Your writing style does not throw me off because it is too "in my face" or too honest. It is simply a matter of preference and style . Do not take it this as my discounting what you write. I simply find it occasionally difficult to discern completely what I am reading. Oh well, to each their own.


Thanks for the feedback. I ll work on it ;-).


----------



## testr72 (Jan 15, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Geez, you sound like me. I'm somewhat introverted, and like to keep to myself. My wife sounds exactly like yours. I guess there was human cloning done at some time.


Geez, you guys sound like me and my LD wife :iagree:


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I currently have a LD wife, all of you know already. If not for the baby on its way, I would be moving on. All of this whining about my lack of a sex life gets old. After the little one comes about, I am going to give it six months to 1 year. If no changes in the frequency occur, I am moving on. 5 times in 9 months is not enough for me.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> Maso,
> 
> Still waiting on your post titled:
> 
> ...


I would love to, but I will need assistance from my female collegues in order to be able to represent the majority of women..

Thats why I for now are more general or more dealing with the male problem of the equation. In my experience most men fail because of having a certain fear of their wives or recentement that makes their point of view blurred and not to be in their control anymore.

With women, stuff is more difficult to generalize because most women open up to the problem of no-sex at a much later stage than men do. Which means that more factors play a greater role, so I as a male psychologist can't offer presice help.

With men, it is like this. From 10 patients, 7 usually never take the advice given because they wont be ready to accept that their point of view of things when it comes to genders has been rather contraproproductive. 
From the 3 who are courageous to risk beieng uncomfortable for a period of time, only 2 usually stand the heat of the moment and finally end up getting more sex, meaning also a better relationship.. Having this said you can see that the solution to most sexual problems in marriages isnt taken easy. As old parables say, the truth hurts. So many couples wont face that they have to become difficult in an assertive way in order to change stuff in their relationship.

According to my female collegues, only 2 out of 10 women will take the advice given by our firm.. But only one will stand the stress that comes with the work that needs to be done..

This shows us that the efficient solutions arent easy to swallow, because they often contradict our moral values whoch we have come with in our lives.. At the same time it is important to know that our incapability to balance moral values with our animalistic sides is often the cause of our missery in relationships.

aanyway.. I ll be ready to open a discussion on this once one of my succesful female collegues assists me with her opinion and knowledge to this matter.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate it. I am willing to be that ONE woman out of ten that walks through the fire.
> 
> I know it's not just about getting him to do what I want. We both need to work on this. I'm willing to accept it is 100% my doing even. I just know something needs to change.



Good morning Wrw

If you have a thread describing your issue, feel free to send me the link. If you dont or maybe feel that you need to update it just make sure have the following points in it:

- Duration of the issue
- Sex in the first 2 years
- Compared to sex in the first 2 months
- Your jobs
- His values, your values
- Kids
- current frequency of sex
- current frequency of initiations
- personal information like body type (his and yours) in the first 2 years compared to now
- Your emotional state when dealing with the issue at the beginning compared to today
- His attitude to pornography, NOT whether he does porn! Big difference! Just his attitude to it, is he open with it, closed with it, distanced to it etc etc..
- A list of 10 things you have personally done/offered in order to spice your sexlife up
- A list of 10 things he has done too - no matter how small, every little information counts.

Dont worry about the lenght of your post. Just make sure it is structured well.

If your fine, I ll let a female collegue of mine have a look at it in her free time. Maybe we can be of some little help in one or the other issue.

Greetz

M


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

1. It is assumed that I am whining, complaining, or raising a stink. Not even close. I do not say a word and have not for about a year. I go on with life like this is not happening. This topic never comes up in our discussions. There is no tension. This is a complete void.

2. Again, you assume that there is some interest on her part. When I would attempt initiating, I may as well have been reading from a college chemistry textbook. The reaction that I got was, “You were saying something? Oh, I did not notice”. No arguing, no exasperation, nothing.

What sparked my coming on to TAM was when she came to bed naked one night. I got a full view and it did absolutely nothing to me. I may as well have been looking at the dresser. I was just as indifferent as her. Honestly, if given the choice between her and video games I would take video games. That bothers me.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> 1. It is assumed that I am whining, complaining, or raising a stink. Not even close. I do not say a word and have not for about a year. I go on with life like this is not happening. This topic never comes up in our discussions. There is no tension. This is a complete void.


I cant recall anyone assuming this lately. the only assumption here is that you are not in balance when it comes to gaming her and that you are rather weak in pushing her out of the comfort zone.



> Again, you assume that there is some interest on her part.


So now tell me, you are always coming back to this point. What does it help you when you think like this.
If you carefuly read my posts I actually dont deal with the interest level of the LD spouse at early stages. In my experience it doesnt matter till she values you to the full.

So if you are always waiting for her to start moaning or talking dirty or whatever out of the blue, you are expecting a bit too much for the beginning.



> What sparked my coming on to TAM was when she came to bed naked one night. I got a full view and it did absolutely nothing to me. I may as well have been looking at the dresser. I was just as indifferent as her. Honestly,


Well, this was maybe her way to show some interest in sex. But because it seems not to be on a high priority level for her to sleep with you, it doesnt matter whether you go for it or not. Maybe even you had turned her on somehow that day or that week and that was one of her first moves on you. Only u know what really happened.
The fact is, your recentment had grown so big by time that u actually didnt care anymore.



> if given the choice between her and video games I would take video games. That bothers me.


I dont know if you will ever try and force your borders again in getting sex from your wife, but for those who still have hope, they should learn from you: you need to have sth that at anytime can make sex with your wife a second priority, that is the safest way not to fall for cheap baits. Video games can do well here.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Maso,

Do me a favor and do not play coy with me, OK? I could cite dozens of examples from your posts (some directed at me and some not) where you talk about the not-getter whining, complaining, being desperate, trying so hard, etc. Again, I do absolutely nothing close to this. A lot of your examples demand there be tension, interaction, argument. What if there is none? 

So, lets get back to basics. Sex should be consentual, should it not? You assume that my actions will provoke her to have interest? How do I make someone have interest in something that have none for? This is not a situation where she has some and I am just not hitting the right buttons. Again, she does not masturbate nor read romance novels. It makes me feel like I am trying to make someone like baseball when they could not care less about the sport and never will.

I keep coming back to that point because I feel that to have a sexual relationship with someone, both parties have to have some interest in it? Am I wrong? How do you have a satisfying sexual relationship with someone when they ZERO interest in having sex with anyone, let alone their husband? How can you push the right buttons if there are no buttons to push?

Again, I followed advice similar to what you give 2 years ago. Life did not change at all. 

Honestly, I think hormones or depression may be involved. She could live the rest of her life without ever having sex again and her overall happiness would not be affected. That would also explain why she has so little energy and passion. Even when she gets enough sleep, she can just hang out at the house all day and do nothing. I can't sit still for more than an hour.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> Do me a favor and do not play coy with me, OK? I could cite dozens of examples from your posts (some directed at me and some not) where you talk about the not-getter whining, complaining, being desperate, trying so hard, etc. Again, I do absolutely nothing close to this. A lot of your examples demand there be tension, interaction, argument. What if there is none?


Well tyler. Again, has anyone lately complained about you adressing the sex-issue? Because you are taking it really personal though I was actually speaking in general when I referred to not-getters and supplyers.

The thing is. You need to find out yourself what part of the information you get from this thread (or any other thread on the net) applies to you. Just because 9 out of 10 things dont apply to your situation doesnt mean the 10th one is crap.



> So, lets get back to basics. Sex should be consentual, should it not?


Yes.



> You assume that my actions will provoke her to have interest? How do I make someone have interest in something that have none for?


U know ure situation best. So I am not going to convince you that you are still fosusing on the wrong pages of the whole book. As I said, it doesnt matter at first whether she has interest or not. And if she had interest in the first months of ure relationship, only age and health reasons can effectively kill that interest for good. Almost all other reasons for low interest can be cracked.



> I keep coming back to that point because I feel that to have a sexual relationship with someone, both parties have to have some interest in it? Am I wrong? How do you have a satisfying sexual relationship with someone when they ZERO interest in having sex with anyone, let alone their husband?


and



> Honestly, I think hormones or depression may be involved. She could live the rest of her life without ever having sex again and her overall happiness would not be affected. That would also explain why she has so little energy and passion. Even when she gets enough sleep, she can just hang out at the house all day and do nothing. I can't sit still for more than an hour.





> [...]that you are rather weak in pushing her out of the comfort zone.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Which again comes back to the reality that I just need to move on. I will wait til after the child is born and then move on. 

The flaw in your last comment about the comfort zone is this. To push her out of her comfort zone would be to force her to have sex when she does not want to.

My main purpose in being on here about this topic is that it perplexes me. How does a seemingly 30-year-old woman have zero sex drive. It is not like I am not meeting her needs and she is finding it elsewhere. She has no need for it. Everything that I do is met with the same indifferent response. How can someone who cares so deeply about her family be so dispassionate about her marriage?


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> To push her out of her comfort zone would be to force her to have sex when she does not want to.


Pushing the spouse out of the comfort zone is only about the taking away some *NON*SEXUAL benefits that come with your relationship.
The key is to give any reason as a justification, apart from the reason that it is because you arent having sex.

@ Wrw

I got your message

I ll get back to you as soon as possible.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

honestly, there are not a lot of nonsexual benefits to this marriage for her. We take care of ourselves. I am not the bread winner by any means. I fix up the house because it needs to be done not because she asks for it to be done. If i did not live there, the only real change to her life would be that the laundry/dishes would not be done and she would have to hire handymen to fix things.

In the midst of my not initiating and being emotionally distant, she has never once asked why? I guess that is really what is bothering me. I thought marriage was about having a connection with someone not just sharing space with a random individual.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> honestly, there are not a lot of nonsexual benefits to this marriage for her. We take care of ourselves. I am not the bread winner by any means. I fix up the house because it needs to be done not because she asks for it to be done. If i did not live there, the only real change to her life would be that the laundry/dishes would not be done and she would have to hire handymen to fix things.


Well then it is time for the dishes and laundry not to be done. I am serious.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Well then it is time for the dishes and laundry not to be done. I am serious.


It is worth a try. I am not a dirty person and so this may bother me more than it bothers her. 

Nevertheless, the more I read on these threads the more I think that it is time to move on. It was magical in the beginning but we are not husband and wife anymore. This is more like two random humans living in the same building.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> It is worth a try. I am not a dirty person and so this may bother me more than it bothers her.
> 
> Nevertheless, the more I read on these threads the more I think that it is time to move on. It was magical in the beginning but we are not husband and wife anymore. This is more like two random humans living in the same building.


Moving on is always an option. You should prepare yourself for that.
And that the dirt bothers you more than her, it is I think a fair reason for you to move on if your action that doesnt push her any inch.

I would ask her to assist me in doing the dishes at first before I go to the extreme.

When it comes to the laundry, you better be only doing yours for the next few weeks.

Try to avoid direct confrontation at the beginning. So di the laundry when she aint there if possible and when it comes to the dishes pretend you are going to do them later (sit down and play your video game). You have to seem *innocent *here in order for it not to look passive agresive on her end. Because if it does, what will happen is that she ll try harder to keep her current position.

And yes if she calls you on the dishes, then friendly ask her to do it for you, if she does, make sure that you do the dishes next time (you have to reward her compliance once). After that you go back to not doing the dishes.

If she doesnt want to do them, you ignore the dishes.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Moving on is always an option. You should prepare yourself for that.
> And that the dirt bothers you more than her, it is I think a fair reason for you to move on if your action that doesnt push her any inch.
> 
> I would ask her to assist me in doing the dishes at first before I go to the extreme.
> ...


Again, I will give it a try. It can't hurt. If this provokes the usual indifferent response, it will be just another nail in the coffin.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Maso said to Tyler: "You have to *seem* innocent here in order for it not to look passive agresive on her end."


Good lord.

tyler, I don't get this advice, and I don't know why you would follow it. Why not just say "look wifey, I'm not feeling it. I am inching closer and closer to a D. I know you're pregnant but you need to know that when this baby comes, if things don't change I am considering leaving"....and then discuss the changes you need.

WTF is wrong with RADICAL HONESTY, especially in this case where you are literally considering leaving when the baby comes. Your wife deserves a CHANCE to turn this around, and this sneaky lying passive aggressive advice tells her NOTHING about your reality (that you are considering leaving).


----------



## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Moving on is always an option. You should prepare yourself for that.
> And that the dirt bothers you more than her, it is I think a fair reason for you to move on if your action that doesnt push her any inch.
> 
> I would ask her to assist me in doing the dishes at first before I go to the extreme.
> ...


Oh man! Some people don't SEE or care about dirt and disorder. Ignoring these things would bother me way more than my spouse too. I feel for you Tyler...take some deep breaths and look the other way!


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> Again, I will give it a try. It can't hurt. If this provokes the usual indifferent response, it will be just another nail in the coffin.


Good. I hope u are still doing the MAP when it comes to ure body fitness. You also need to do things that make you happy because that is sth which is in your hands.

It is much more likely to meet happy peoples needs. Just know that in relationships, the opposite will happen at first, the partner will try to make you unhappy first. Only when they dont succeed, then is when u ll start to get the respect you deserve.

If u feal unhappy sometimes when you are in the presense of your wife, then fake happiness.
You need to look as if u are content with your life and need to talk more positively. Avoid talk that is rather negative for the next few weeks.


----------



## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Maso said to Tyler: "You have to *seem* innocent here in order for it not to look passive agresive on her end."
> 
> 
> Good lord.
> ...


Well Tyler, it seemed to me that you had tried everything and nothing was working. So if you havent tried Faithful Wifes advice, I think it is the right one to go for right today before you start pushing her indirectly.


----------



## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Maso said to Tyler: "You have to *seem* innocent here in order for it not to look passive agresive on her end."
> 
> 
> Good lord.
> ...


I think I know why!

Unless I am following Tyler's story incorrectly, the usual "in your face" tactics are NOT working with his wife. I'm living that exact same thing. I say give it a try.

And, if this is your first child you are in for a rude awakening. You know there is no sex for 6 weeks after delivery? She may drag that out for any reason. You will have to remind her the rest of her body is not broken (mouth, hands, etc.).Then she will be too tired, feel bloated, leaky breasts, etc.....for people like this, the list of excuses become much longer. It is only going to get worse after your baby is born. 

I was on bed rest for 5 months during one of my pregnancies and I was not allowed to have intercourse. But I made sure that my husband had sexual gratification. There are plenty other ways to do that. I was on bed rest, not dead. He still cheated on me during that time (we are no longer married for reasons much bigger than that). But you get my point. 

When is your baby due? Congratulations by the way.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Good. I hope u are still doing the MAP when it comes to ure body fitness. You also need to do things that make you happy because that is sth which is in your hands.
> 
> It is much more likely to meet happy peoples needs. Just know that in relationships, the opposite will happen at first, the partner will try to make you unhappy first. Only when they dont succeed, then is when u ll start to get the respect you deserve.
> 
> ...


My dominant personality trait is that I am unflappable. Nothing rains on my parade. Nobody brings me down. If I wanted to go to a concert and she did not approve well then tough s*** for her. I end up going anyways and enjoying myself just as much as if she did approve. 

As for fitness, I am doing fine. I have a 120-mile bike ride planned on Saturday. I do not do them for anybody but myself. I do not care if anybody praises me for having the endurance and drive to do so. I do them because I enjoy them and for the health benefits.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

where are we said: "....the usual "in your face" tactics are NOT working with his wife"


But when you literally have one foot out the door, it is the time to just say it, no matter what the consequences are, so that your spouse KNOWS you have one foot out the door.

All previous conversations were more like "I hope you hear me because I am unhappy".

That's not the place tyler is in.

He is contemplating leaving and doing it SOON and his wife doesn't even KNOW that he might do that, AND she is pregnant!

What is he supposed to do according to maso...just wait until he has packed bags in his hands and is literally walking out to tell her?


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> I think I know why!
> 
> Unless I am following Tyler's story incorrectly, the usual "in your face" tactics are NOT working with his wife. I'm living that exact same thing. I say give it a try.
> 
> ...


April and Thanks.

Quick Story. Our sex life pretty much dried up in early 2010. I did not really put a lot of thought into it until later that year. I thought that sexual desire had ups and downs and this was a down. However, it really started bothering me in mid-2011. So, I did research on this and followed advice similar to that of No more Mr. Nice Guy. It did not work. 

So, early 2012 I had the "talk". In short, I got right to the point and asked her what is wrong with me and why do you never want it. Her response was that she was not in the mood and never really feels it.About me, she says that she loved me and still found me attractive however nothing really sparks her interest. This was hard to hear. So I started doing things such as Maso and others have mentioned. Becoming more of a man's man. I feel great about myself but yet she is unchanged.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

So you literally have only had ONE conversation with her about it thus far? And it was over a year ago?


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> So you literally have only had ONE conversation with her about it thus far? And it was over a year ago?


Between that time and early 2013, it would come up and we would talk about it. The conversation that I spoke of earlier is the only one where it was the only topic. If that makes sense.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If your wife has no idea that this issue is so BIG that you are contemplating leaving...and it sounds like she doesn't...she deserves to know so she can either try to change the situation, or prepare herself for single parenthood.

Anything less than full out radical honesty would just be cruel to her and your child.


----------



## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> If your wife has no idea that this issue is so BIG that you are contemplating leaving...and it sounds like she doesn't...she deserves to know so she can either try to change the situation, or prepare herself for single parenthood.
> 
> Anything less than full out radical honesty would just be cruel to her and your child.


Why does there need to be a radical THREAT (I am leaving you) for your spouse to want to change?

Why isn't the discussion, "my needs aren't being met and this is what i need from you?" enough?

When it gets to threats and ultimatums it's probably already too late. Why do you want to share a life with someone who only responds to this type of tactic? Just my opinion.....


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> If your wife has no idea that this issue is so BIG that you are contemplating leaving...and it sounds like she doesn't...she deserves to know so she can either try to change the situation, or prepare herself for single parenthood.
> 
> Anything less than full out radical honesty would just be cruel to her and your child.


I am not sure what I am waiting for but it will have to come to that eventually. Another thing that I am worried about is that it will become a duty and not a desire. If we stay together but she is only intimate so that she can keep me happy, then I would rather be alone. However, I will not know until I cross that bridge.

Again, what really bothers me is that she is so indifferent about it. Yeah.... we are not having sex... and I am supposed to care for what reason??


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If he is honestly contemplating leaving, then at what point does he say it?

I'm not saying he shouldn't leave...and I gather he likely will.

All I am saying is that if your spouse doesn't know that you are really willing to walk out, they will not understand the importance of the things you are saying.

I am also not saying people should just threaten...but he isn't threatening, he is really contemplating it! It isn't a threat, it is her reality, too. She deserves the chance to know what the real consequences are before they happen.

I'm divorced...so I know this process goes...the many talks...the inching closer to making a decision, etc.

But at the point when you have one foot out the door, it is no longer any type of threat. The next step is the one out...and man, if you can do ANYTHING to avoid that, you should at least try.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

tyler said (quoting his wife): "Yeah.... we are not having sex... and I am supposed to care for what reason??"

And the honest response from you should be "you should care because I am contemplating divorce".


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Would it be better if it was true, but you just didn't know it because he didn't tell you....and then a few months after you had a baby he walked out?

Because that is what he is describing, and I don't see how she is supposed to know how CLOSE he is to walking out unless he tells her.

Many people get told they are being left behind/divorced...that is what is coming up...so that is what she needs to know.

(wait...I just read your response again, maybe I misunderstood...I think now you meant you would have been so hurt if you were tyler, hearing that she just doesn't care).


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> tyler said (quoting his wife): "Yeah.... we are not having sex... and I am supposed to care for what reason??"
> 
> And the honest response from you should be "you should care because I am contemplating divorce".


Quick disclaimer: I value what you say. I find it very thought-provoking. I may come off as argumentative because this has bothered/perplexed like few other things in my life. The web of conflicting and confounding emotions make this sometimes difficult to convey without sounding like I am losing my mind. 

I have been contemplating this for a while but always thought that I would find a way to talk myself into hanging around. The pregnancy was the turning point.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

where_are_we said:


> At least I would then know that he truly did not care about me...at all.


Could you elaborate? :scratchhead:


----------



## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Would it be better if it was true, but you just didn't know it because he didn't tell you....and then a few months after you had a baby he walked out?
> 
> Because that is what he is describing, and I don't see how she is supposed to know how CLOSE he is to walking out unless he tells her.
> 
> ...


Yes, your last statement. I would have been hurt and would have laid it out right then. Well, I think I would. Can't say for sure if I were not in the situation.


----------



## testr72 (Jan 15, 2013)

You need to confront your LD wife, I believe in honesty not mind games.
Men are not psychic, we cant read minds, we need direct communication.
Ask her what is it that has to be done to make it work or else you will leave. I believe in being direct , no tip toeing around the issue. If she needs something or has some personal issues she has to talk about this. She has to open up.
What is it thats causing this serious marital problem?
Both have to make it work and to find a resolution

Ive become direct with my wife, tell me what you need, we need to make this work. I told her how I feel, now its all up to her 

If she doesnt have an answer and our situation doesn't improve i dont see my self staying. Being miserable for the next 5,10 or more years because of no intimacy is just unacceptable. 

Youre letting someone else dictate your life and make you miserable. 
Thats so unfair.
There will always be someone else out there that will love you and appreciate you.


----------



## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> Could you elaborate? :scratchhead:


Not sure if you are joking around...but here is the clarification:

Tyler's wife said to him "Yeah.... we are not having sex... and I am supposed to care for what reason??"

If my spouse said that to me about our lack of intimacy that would tell me that he did not care about me at all and I would be done. 

I am in same situation as Tyler (but I am the female) As for now. I only get a blank stare or "I don't know" in response to my questions about why.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Quick example: One day, I came home early and did all of the housework. Made the place spotless and had dinner ready to go when she got home. I let her decompress from a long day. Dinner was not some crap out of the box. I made one of her favorite; Eggplant Parmesan. I hate Eggplant but toughed it out. Later on, we sat on the couch and we cuddled. I gave her a slow but thorough back massage. I do this all the time and never expect sex. So, we go upstairs and I start with some sensual stuff. She abruptly announces that Bones is on soon and asks if I want to watch. So I oblige. After the show, I go back to my nonsexual touching. She proceeds to give me a quick kiss and goes to sleep.


Before one goes into how I should have done this or done that, the problem is not that I did not get sex. The problem is that I got brushed off like drier lint. There have been numerous other examples where I have changed up my plan of action, the result is always cold indifference.


----------



## Mr Wolf (Mar 1, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> where are we said: "....the usual "in your face" tactics are NOT working with his wife"
> 
> 
> But when you literally have one foot out the door, it is the time to just say it, no matter what the consequences are, *so that your spouse KNOWS you have one foot out the door*.


Why???? So she can pretend that she will change only to keep him around until she can figure out a way to screw him in the D? ... typical.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

where_are_we said:


> Not sure if you are joking around...but here is the clarification:
> 
> Tyler's wife said to him "Yeah.... we are not having sex... and I am supposed to care for what reason??"
> 
> If my spouse said that to me about our lack of intimacy that would tell me that he did not care about me at all and I would be done.


Sorry to hear that. Like many here, I've been through it too. It hurts.


----------



## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> Quick example: One day, I came home early and did all of the housework. Made the place spotless and had dinner ready to go when she got home. I let her decompress from a long day. Dinner was not some crap out of the box. I made one of her favorite; Eggplant Parmesan. I hate Eggplant but toughed it out. Later on, we sat on the couch and we cuddled. I gave her a slow but thorough back massage. I do this all the time and never expect sex. So, we go upstairs and I start with some sensual stuff. She abruptly announces that Bones is on soon and asks if I want to watch. So I oblige. After the show, I go back to my nonsexual touching. She proceeds to give me a quick kiss and goes to sleep.
> 
> 
> Before one goes into how I should have done this or done that, the problem is not that I did not get sex. The problem is that I got brushed off like drier lint. There have been numerous other examples where I have changed up my plan of action, the result is always cold indifference.


Oh for real! My spouse doesn't notice when I do these things as well, when I asked him about it, he said, 'those things aren't important to me so I do not notice them." that was hurtful, no thank you, nada nothing. All I wanted was appreciation. I always want sex...lol

But when he does it, because he knows it is important to me.....
I reward that behavior immediately with sexual and non-sexual gratitude. 


Did you at least get a thank you?


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> Oh for real! My spouse doesn't notice when I do these things as well, when I asked him about it, he said, 'those things aren't important to me so I do not notice them." that was hurtful, no thank you, nada nothing. All I wanted was appreciation. I always want sex...lol
> 
> But when he does it, because he knows it is important to me.....
> I reward that behavior immediately with sexual and non-sexual gratitude.
> ...


Not on this occasion. She does acknowledge my efforts sometimes. 

I feel like the woman in this. In the rare event that she is up for having sex, She always wants the quickie. Get it over with and then we can watch Bones or CSI. I have voiced my desire for a more loving, passionate, and longer than five minutes session. She says ok and then next time we are back to the usual five minutes or less. This tells me that she does not want it. Not really.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> tyler, I don't get this advice, and I don't know why you would follow it. Why not just say "look wifey, I'm not feeling it. I am inching closer and closer to a D. I know you're pregnant but you need to know that when this baby comes, if things don't change I am considering leaving"....and then discuss the changes you need.


When the baby comes and takes years to sleep thru the night etc etc and both of you are zombied out I'm not so sure that sex will be in either of your minds. Sleep will.

Use the year or so you have to find out why she feels like that about sex and find ways to address it. If there's no answer by all means walk, but don't establish conditions now otherwise you'll have epic amounts of resentment to deal with.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

john117 said:


> When the baby comes and takes years to sleep thru the night etc etc and both of you are zombied out I'm not so sure that sex will be in either of your minds. Sleep will.
> 
> Use the year or so you have to find out why she feels like that about sex and find ways to address it. If there's no answer by all means walk, but don't establish conditions now otherwise you'll have epic amounts of resentment to deal with.


The plan at the moment is to give it one year after the birth. I do not have a target such as sex once per week. All I really want is the feeling that I am not just some random individual living in the same building. When we do not have sex, I want some indication that if the time was right she would want it. At present, sex and the chemical composition of the dirt in Austin, Nevada are of equal importance. I want the connection that is marriage not just two names on a marriage certificate.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mr. Wolf said: "Why???? So she can pretend that she will change only to keep him around until she can figure out a way to screw him in the D? ... typical."


This assumes she wants to screw him over, which there is no evidence anywhere that she wants to. Why would you project that she is hateful? She has no sex drive...that is not the same as saying she is hateful and wants to screw him over.

It is my understanding that she makes like three times as much as he does, anyway.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Mr. Wolf said: "Why???? So she can pretend that she will change only to keep him around until she can figure out a way to screw him in the D? ... typical."
> 
> 
> This assumes she wants to screw him over, which there is no evidence anywhere that she wants to. Why would you project that she is hateful? She has no sex drive...that is not the same as saying she is hateful and wants to screw him over.
> ...


Yes, you are correct. She makes about 3.5 times as much as I do. We just bought a house and it is in her name only. That is another thing that keeps me from walking out the door right now. I do not want to saddle her with the debt of the house.

The issue is not her being vengeful or hateful. The issue is her indifference.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Revenge or vengeance should be on the table... But between the income disparity and her indifference I don't see much chance of things improving. I make more than my wife and she still considers me a slacker because I don't work 60 hours a week like she does. Gotta love the so-called "Asian work ethic" 

And if you have concerns about the house, wait till your wife is laid off (nobody's immune) and all of a sudden you have a big mortgage to pay for a house that is not in your name. 

At the risk of asking the obvious why did you get married and why did you go for a baby?


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

john117 said:


> Revenge or vengeance should be on the table... But between the income disparity and her indifference I don't see much chance of things improving. I make more than my wife and she still considers me a slacker because I don't work 60 hours a week like she does. Gotta love the so-called "Asian work ethic"
> 
> And if you have concerns about the house, wait till your wife is laid off (nobody's immune) and all of a sudden you have a big mortgage to pay for a house that is not in your name.
> 
> At the risk of asking the obvious why did you get married and why did you go for a baby?


When we got married, all was good on the sex front. We had the plan that I would finish graduate school and get a better job. Married in 2008 and started grad school in late 2010. The sex life started to dry up as soon as I started grad school.

About the baby, that is a good question. I am not saying that to be facetious. I am excited to be dad but the marriage is something that I am starting to not care about.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Were you working prior to grad school? Perhaps the turn off was income / earning power / status (quotes as needed ) related?

Our girls were planned and all but I could not have predicted in a zillion years what a wonderful experience it would be... Enough to make any sacrifice seem acceptable. Not to mention the educational aspect of it.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

john117 said:


> Were you working prior to grad school? Perhaps the turn off was income / earning power / status (quotes as needed ) related?
> 
> Our girls were planned and all but I could not have predicted in a zillion years what a wonderful experience it would be... Enough to make any sacrifice seem acceptable. Not to mention the educational aspect of it.


Yes, I have been unemployed for very brief amounts of time in the relationship. I have always earned less than she does. Our difference in earnings comes down partly to our fields. She is a teacher with a lot of connections. I chose to study economics and try to be an analyst. It has not worked out.

About kids, I am stoked. Whenever we visit family and there are kids (ages 1 to 13 or so), I play and interact with them and the wife deals with the adults. I have the energy and patience for kids. The parents, usually demand my presence, because I wear their kids out therefore making sleep not a problem.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

As a teacher she may have a bit of an issue with adult relationships - relating better to children as an authority figure and not as well to equal adults.

Having said that, teachers don't make a whole lot of money so any feeling of financial superiority would be suspect in absolute terms, while real in relative terms.

Sure, I "only" make $15k/year both than my wife, but I barely work 40 hours a week to her 60+. So making more money should not be a factor.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> If your wife has no idea that this issue is so BIG that you are contemplating leaving...and it sounds like she doesn't...she deserves to know so she can either try to change the situation, or prepare herself for single parenthood.
> 
> Anything less than full out radical honesty would just be cruel to her and your child.


Really? It's not enough that it comes up regularly?

IMO, the vast majority of women know what's up at this point. They know that a relationship cannot survive with a serious sexual dissatisfaction. It isn't necessary to explicitly say it.

A wife that cares about her husband's happiness per se, or at least cares enough about the marriage to keep it happy, will find a way to provide a satisfactory sexual experience (provided, of course, we are talking about mainstream sexual practices). Failing to do so means that either she is indifferent to whether he stays or leaves, or thinks he won't work up the courage to leave. It really is that simple 99% of the time.

So, basically, she's been listening to him complain regularly and not changing her behavior. And if she's pushed him far enough down her priority list to treat him like that, warning her he is about to leave won't get him better sex. So why give her an extra heads up?

That "shot across the bow" talk is great for early on before behavior patterns are ingrained; it's purpose is to prevent a long, drawn out period of unhappiness such as this. By this point, she know's he is very unhappy and further discussion is pointless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Mr. Wolf said: "Why???? So she can pretend that she will change only to keep him around until she can figure out a way to screw him in the D? ... typical."
> 
> 
> This assumes she wants to screw him over, which there is no evidence anywhere that she wants to. Why would you project that she is hateful? She has no sex drive...that is not the same as saying she is hateful and wants to screw him over.
> ...


She may or may not want to screw him over. Screwing someone over can be done non-financially as well. What if she, let's say, tries to deny his paternity to get him out of the picture.

But, that's not my main point. the point is the odds are nearly zero that any additional talking will produce lasting improvement in his sex life. Therefore, any risk that she will screw him over is too big. Better for him to walk while noting that if reconciliation is a real option if she wants to do the hard work it will take to be able to meet his need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Gosh, this board makes me love my husband. Radical honesty is the best thing that ever happened to our marriage.

If my husband has an issue with me or vice versa, we are actually HONEST about it and open...and we discuss it until there is a resolution. We go to counseling if we can't do it ourselves. And if that doesn't work, we explain just how much of a problem it could be if it doesn't get resolved (ie: is this a deal breaker or not).

Instead of sneaking around, being passive aggressive, and holding grudges that we never completely air out....we know the state of our marriage because we hold nothing back.

And because of radical honesty, we also make sure to convey our love and admiration for each other ... all the time. Because it is honest.

But hey...go on and use the passive agressive and dishonest approach and just blind side them with a divorce when your spouse cannot read your mind well enough. That way works too....especially for family law attorneys.

The Policy of Radical Honesty


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Gosh, this board makes me love my husband. Radical honesty is the best thing that ever happened to our marriage.
> 
> If my husband has an issue with me or vice versa, we are actually HONEST about it and open...and we discuss it until there is a resolution. We go to counseling if we can't do it ourselves. And if that doesn't work, we explain just how much of a problem it could be if it doesn't get resolved (ie: is this a deal breaker or not).
> 
> ...


I edited my post from before. You make a lot of assumptions and are awfully judgmental. Filling in the blanks may work on crossword puzzles but not here.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

DTO said:


> Really? It's not enough that it comes up regularly?
> 
> IMO, the vast majority of women know what's up at this point. They know that a relationship cannot survive with a serious sexual dissatisfaction. It isn't necessary to explicitly say it.
> 
> ...


I used to complain about this a bit but have quit. A lot of what people say on here, while valid, assumes that I am getting a reaction. The last few times that I brought up our almost nonexistent sex life, I got brushed off. Maybe I should have really raised a stink but when you get shrugged off, it changes things. Why would they care if you raised your voice when they did not care before? The words are the same, no matter the volume. If someone wants it, they would not need you to yell, scream, and increase the decibels behind your words.

I can't say when because life is unpredictable but soon enough, I am going to give the ultimatum that if she still has no interest one year after the child is born then I am moving on. I would have done this before but self doubt always creeps in. Is our sex life gone because I am a bad lover? Is she getting it somewhere else? Have I not done enough in the relationship outside of the bedroom? So before delivering the bombshell, I wanted to thoroughly think this through.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

tyler said: "You make a lot of assumptions and are awfully judgmental. Filling in the blanks may work on crossword puzzles but not here."

My post was directed at DTO, not you tyler. DTO quoted me in the post he/she made, so I was responding.

As far as I can tell tyler, you are just trying to figure out what to do and the best way to do it. I didn't mean to imply that you were doing anything specific...you seem to be just now trying to decide which way to turn. I actually haven't made any assumptions about how you have done things thus far.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> tyler said: "You make a lot of assumptions and are awfully judgmental. Filling in the blanks may work on crossword puzzles but not here."
> 
> My post was directed at DTO, not you tyler. DTO quoted me in the post he/she made, so I was responding.
> 
> As far as I can tell tyler, you are just trying to figure out what to do and the best way to do it. I didn't mean to imply that you were doing anything specific...you seem to be just now trying to decide which way to turn. I actually haven't made any assumptions about how you have done things thus far.


I apologize. This gets me going like few other things in my life have.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

No worries...it was a confusing exchange.

I am actually defending you in many of my posts, because some of them were indicating that you should be worried about her character and trying to screw you...and I just don't see why that has come up since you never painted her that way.


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> No worries...it was a confusing exchange.
> 
> I am actually defending you in many of my posts, because some of them were indicating that you should be worried about her character and trying to screw you...and I just don't see why that has come up since you never painted her that way.


I may be naive but there is little reason to believe that she will be vengeful. However, I will cross that bridge later.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Radical honesty means to show all your cards and be completely transparent. Rrrrright. That will work well with 5 year olds, 10 year olds, ..., ..., and by induction, with everyone.

Good luck with that.

A marriage or relationship is no different than any business contract. You give and you take. You establish a level below which issues are too trivial to negotiate. You establish boundaries. 

If you find a saint, and are a saint yourself, and neither of you ever deviates from the script, then I suppose radical honesty works. Mere mortals will generally feel more comfortable with additional less revealing options.

If you were radically honest with your parents as a teenager, or if you are with your less than perfect coworkers, etc. then by all means carry on...


----------

