# What is she thinking???



## B10465 (May 5, 2009)

Ok my ex and I have been apart for 2 yrs. There was no divorce.
She however has been living with the man she left me for. Early on she said it was easier staying with him then working through the issue of her cheating on me. Here is the thing. She has told me that her and he don't have sex anymore. She and I made out a few times back in Dec 2008. She comes by my apartment for lunch from time to time and we talk through emails. Sometime she stops by my place in the morning on her way to work and I make her breakfast. None of this is known by the guy she is with. He doesn't like us to talk to each other. 

She knows I have forgiven her and that I still love her. We had talked about having sex but she was like if he found out she would catch so much crap from him. Still we flirt with each other and today she came by for lunch. I had asked about hooking up for my 40th B-day this week and while having lunch she made a point of saying 5 times we aren't having sex on your B-day. The whole time playing with her hair. Twisting it with her finger.

I'm looking for a female view on what she might have running through her mind.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

not a female....but she is still having sex with the other guy, she enjoys teasing you, she enjoys controlling you and having her cake and eating it too.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Yep...she's just having fun and toying with you...you are secure and comfortable, yet probably an amusement to her.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

The question isn't "What is she thinking?" rather: "What is she doing?" answer is what you already know, she's playing you the fool. And worse you are playing yourself. 

If I were you I can honestly say I would cut all ties with her immediately, and especially on your birthday. I wouldn't allow her any contact, phone, text, email, twitter, facebook whatever on your birthday. She will have sex several times with the other man on your birthday and think about taunting you and how it is hurting you.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

martino said:


> She will have sex several times with the other man on your birthday and think about taunting you and how it is hurting you.


Martino! How many coffees did you have this morning? 

B10465-
Form only one post it's hard to say, but I am seeing things differently. It's true that she is way outa line, but half her story might be true. She may well have stopped having sex with the other guy. She may not.

But their relationship may well be crumbling. I sense she likes to be secure at all times. If it were me and I had nothing better to do, and no-one else on the horizon and I still liked her... I would play along with her. BUT... I would be thinking of the endgame: If and when she moves back in with you, there would need to be firmer ground rules than you ever had before. Make a shopping list of what you want in a wife, and make sure she is willing to "buy everything on the list".

So for instance, if she was in the habit of withholding sex from you, that would be a no-no. If she gets back together with you, she will respect this new-found firmness. She sounds so rudderless herself, she would fancy the pants of a man whit a rock-hard no-nonsense attitude.

It's good that you've forgiven her, it means that all other things being equal, you have every chance of having a very bright future. But it's vital that when you take her back, you act like a man.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Twain,

I've had plenty!!! this is a good optimistic strategy, Twain you are a romantic aren't you? this seems like a good strategy if he wants her back. Her saying: "No sex on your birthday" sends shivers up my spine. Not that I consider my birthday to be that huge a deal...it's the shrewdness of it. I'd kick her to the curb with the rats in the cellar. I mean is that not cold hearted? Jesus posts like this make me realize what a good wife I have. No offense intended toward you B10456.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

B10465, I should have stated that i'm not female by the way. Sorry but I had to respond.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

martino-
I'm more kinky than romantic 

Looking at the original quote and highlighting the bit that caught my eye:


B10465 said:


> Still we flirt with each other and today she came by for lunch. I had asked about hooking up for my 40th B-day this week and while having lunch she made a point of saying 5 times we aren't having sex on your B-day.* The whole time playing with her hair. Twisting it with her finger.
> *


...what I see here is a horny woman playing games. She may not actually be being cruel, we can't know without more info from the OP. However, she is clearly in a highly sexualised state. If it were me, I would flirt without mercy! They're still married after all. A woman who strays and comes back can be the best sort of woman there is - if she has a good heart.

It's all part of life's rich tapestry. Give me damaged goods every time. Who did Jesus like to hang out with the most? Perfect people are boring.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Twain,

"Damaged goods" you mean "used goods." I'm just not into gamesmenship I guess. I couldn't look her in the eye without disgust. I mean a one nighter or a fling is one thing, but this borders cuckoldry. "Sexualized State"...well too bad he ain't gettin' any of that. btw MT, If I sound edgy MT it's cause I ain't gettin any either lately  ....


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

martino said:


> I couldn't look her in the eye without disgust. I mean a one nighter or a fling is one thing, but this borders cuckoldry.


Well that's you. I am trying to put myself in the OP's position. He says he has forgiven her. He clearly is not feeling disgust - at the moment.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Point taken MT.


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## B10465 (May 5, 2009)

Ok let me add a few thoughts. I have forgiven her. But to be fair I was pissed off in the beginning however time has a way of healing wounds and after about 6 months I was ready to forgive her and did just that. 

She has a tendency to look down on herself as she has gained a little weight. Plus she calls me crazy sometimes because she can't understand why I'm nice to her or why I never got the tattoo with her name removed. In the past she would tell me I had to say she was beautiful because she was with me....I have told her we are passed that...I think she might finally be getting that. 

As for an earlier reply I don't think of her as "used goods".
I see her as a Beautiful woman that I care about. Oh, just a small fact. We have been married for 19 yrs this year.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

B10465-
Knowing her as you do... would you say she was being cruel or flirty about the birthday sex issue? Does she have a Dark Side? Do you?


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## B10465 (May 5, 2009)

No I don't think she has a dark side. I know I don't.
Some of the things she said in the past were.
It was easier to stay with him because it was to hard to face me after having cheated on me. She says she dragged him into this and feels guilty about it. He has been married twice before and if she left it would crush him. She has said she is worried what he might do to himself...no details.

She'll make comments about how he never notices anything.
Stuff like hair style changes painting her nails etc... stuff I still notice.

After a year and a half I did see someone for a brief 5 months period. She still asks me about her and why I stopped seeing her.
I have told her that I was lonely and it was a lack of better judgment on my part. When I first started seeing the other woman she was all like now you no better then me...but seemed
a little relieved when I broke it off.

Then there is the fact that her and her guy talk about getting married but he has never proposed to her, gotten her a ring or for that matter filed for the divorce. When we had lunch the other day she made the comment about how she is starting to think we will never get divorced...sometimes I think she uses us being married to keep from having to get married to him.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

question: did i not read this closely enough? could she be having an EA with b10465 behind the back of this guy she is with?

she might get sorta a kick outta having affairs, emotional or otherwise.

opinions?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Double post


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

It's not about the thrill of the chase or having an affair, it's about attempting to build self-esteem through manipulating others.

My ex does the same. It isn't meant to be cruel - it's simply a reminder to me of how messed up she is. In B10465's case, his wife sized up someone that she could manipulate to get what she needed. And of course, now that it is apparent that the boyfriend has baggage of his own that detracts from her needs? She can poke the husband in the ribs because the boyfriend has faltered.

I have experienced very similar behavior, including flirtation and sexual energy. I just ain't bought what she's sellin', simply because it isn't coming from a healthy place.

But who knows? I might hit it ... while getting in touch with _my_ Dark Side :FIREdevil:


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Deejo said:


> But who knows? I might hit it ... while getting in touch with *my* Dark Side :FIREdevil:


I think you may have twisted the meaning of my article there, but I'll let you off on a technicality


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## ekygrl (May 5, 2009)

Okay, so I'm a chick, and I know exactly what she's doing. She's got you on the hook, and she knows it. She uses your attention and support when she's not getting enough from him. You're easy and familiar. She can come to you anytime. She expects it from you, because you give her exactly what she wants over and over, every single time. She doesn't want you, she just likes the feeling that she could. Girls do this all the time...holding on to the guy from the past that they think would do anything for them. She doesn't love you or the guy she's with, because if she did, she would have forgotten about one of you and stayed faithful, emotionally and physically.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

But perhaps I should clarify: There is a huge difference between an integrated person who is able to draw on their dark side to the benefit of all, than a philanderer who has totally given in to their inner demons.

We need to "wait and see". I'm still not convinced the woman here is as bad as some people are thinking. I await fresh input form the OP.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> I think you may have twisted the meaning of my article there, but I'll let you off on a technicality


I am aware of my willful manipulation of the intent of your article. I'm simply looking to deflect responsibility for my inappropriate philandering of my wife. If sleeping with my spouse while she has a boyfriend is wrong, then I don't want to be right! 

Try to get your head around _that_ dysfunction!

*Disclaimer* The above is posted for humorous purposes only. 

On a serious note ... B1, are you involved with somebody else?


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

you broke rule #1 Never EVER get a tattoo with a girls name on it, instant disaster....


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## B10465 (May 5, 2009)

I have a heart tattoo with her name across it on a banner. 
I have said to friends before and I'll say it again. I'm proud of the tattoo and it stays. Even if we never get back together the tattoo was gotten for a reason and is part of my history. It's part of who I am. I never have thought of it as a mistake.

As for her just keeping me on the hook...I don't believe that.
A lot of her issues go back to self esteem. There were some childhood issues with verbal abuse, an abusive boyfriend in the teen years and a sexual assault a few years before we met.

She always told me I deserved better then her and I think the cheating was her way of making me walk away but I didn't.
She seemed confused about me telling her I forgave her.

I think she is with the other guy because it is what she grew up with and what she knows...odd to say but her comfort zone.


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## Sensitive (Mar 29, 2009)

From what I read, it sounds like you want to have an affair with your own wife, because neither of you are willing to call it quits and finalize a divorce? She has the advantage of having a relationship with another man and stringing along her separated husband. It does sound twisted. Either get the divorce and break all ties with her, or get back together and no more affairs. She might be thinking she is getting away with manipulating two men, or she could be just flirty and indecisive.


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## pickles2009 (May 5, 2009)

woman here - uh, you need to move on. You aren't helping yourself OR HER by having her over for lunch, talking about sex, flirting, etc. You are confusing her and regardless of what she is thinking about right now (wanting to screw your brains out) it isn't appropriate for anyone involved. CUT THE CORD. There are lots of women out there, get outside your comfort zone and find one that isn't attached in any way. And besides, perhaps if you do this, she'll break it off with the other guy because you've then given her the tools she needs to figure out it's you she really wants to be with. IF that does happen, hit up a therapist because she's got isues where guys are concerned.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Listen to ekygrl and pickles. They have her pegged.

One thing I gotta say to you. You keep asking what SHE is doing.

What the heck are YOU doing??!!

You need to move on and cut her out of your life.

Don't be her stand-in guy. Find a woman to have a complete relationship with.

She's an emotional vampire without even the sex as a benefit.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

B, so what is preventing you from letting go of her? 

Why do you not move forward with a divorce?

You have remained in love with the woman that betrayed you for two years since you left?

I'm not looking to smack you around. Our circumstances are very similar. I am very curious to hear about why you have been unable to move on?


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## B10465 (May 5, 2009)

Deejo,

It's hard to explain...it's one of those things you either understand or don't but I'll try to explain. I guess i was raised in the old fashion way where divorce wasn't something that happened. My grandparents on both sides were married until death (50 plus years) My parents were married 37 yrs until my Dad pasted in "96".

I didn't do the dating thing much. From the beginning I knew when I found the right woman I would know. That was and still is my wife/ex. She was the first one I had ever slept with and I'm cool with that. I was 21. There is just a connection there that can't be broken. When I took my vows I was and still am ready to only spend my life with her or in this case alone. The one person I saw for that 5 months was a mistake...I knew it from the start but something I had to live through. In the end that helped me realize that I only have one soulmate.

The key to the still having her in my life and wanting to be with her comes from the fact I have Forgiven her. Really Forgiven her. I hold no ill will towards her. All I can tell you about how I did that is to say I found the strength through God.


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## Lavender (May 14, 2008)

:scratchhead: This has me puzzled??? I want to rename the thread 
"What is he thinking???" It obvious you may have the issues rather than her.. it would apear you look down on yourself instead of her.. you are a security blanket for her that has in reverse of the norm took on the role of trying to fill in the gaps compliments etc that usually a lurking male friend with lustful intentions would pull..

Only trouble issss... geee whizzzz your dreaming your life away! cause You are the Hubby!!! Your trying to win a woman that you technically already have wone.. you are allowing her to sneak and see her husband hush hush to the boyfriend he will get upset.. thats Krazy!!!!

I understand you see your parents and grandparents blissful marriage and are inspired by it.. but did they in accomplishing those years of maritial bliss move out and into the arms & bed of another .. did your mom or dad or grandmother .. grandfather have boyfriends and girlfriends on the side and go live with them taking themselves a vaction to play? and for years at a time making sure to have ( sneaky) visits with there spouse in the meantime? if you witnessed that your identity with wanting what they had or have might make sense... 


Im not trying to be offensive.. Im really trying to understand where you feel you want to continue life this way with no gurantees even.. you sound pleased she Might not marry him and keep you In paper only .. as an excuse to avoid it... what happens to you whe your wrong & one day you get those papers and are cut off by her no more communication when she decides to be faithful to him or anyone else she might meet in the meantime? she could kick you both to the curb ... the only thing that seems to be asked as a concern is .. Is My wife gonna give me sex on my birthday.. is she teasing?

she might give you both sex that day who knows .. I think id be more worried about my heart.. self esteem.. Uncertain future in the long run.. 

God is Great and he has obviously given you the power to forgive her.. thats you forgiving her but what about her asking god for her own forgiveness for what she is still currently living? you forgiving her for cheating is one thing.. But its still ongoing and ever present so u must mean u prayed for the strength to share a wife and live with sneaking to see her .. I dont know ??????? I am female and I do Know this .. She doesnt respect you as her Husband.. not possible her boyfriend is the one expressing the firmness she fears his knowledge of knowing she sneaks and sees you Her own Husband ..and u can compliment her nails & notice any physical change she makes .. but he reaps the rewards of them after you boost her ego!!

he dont need to compliment her .he lives with her day in and out she gives her body to him ... and hubby gets pop in visits for the support and reassuring of her emotional needs .. the Boyfriend the physical he probally would prefer to keep it that way ... Winning Another Mans wife .. without having to marry her himself.. Id be suprised if he would really marry her anyway cause he obviously doesnt Respect marriage.. due to the up close & very personal example he lives with...

I hope you realise eventually she is an Obsession/ Memory your holding on to past present and future .... your sending her the message there is no consequences for our hurtful choices and we can use our past dramas and negatives as a crutch and guilt free excuse to hurt the most important people to us .. If she has lived negative experiences she should remember how they felt and not be so quick to exspect others to endure them from her.. you make excuses & defend her actions Ignoring your own pain ??? theres blinders On clearly It should be learn and do better from negative make sure you dont cause the same confusion and pain to others .. not learn and reinflict justifying it for someone else to endure ...


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

B10465 said:


> Deejo,
> 
> It's hard to explain...it's one of those things you either understand or don't but I'll try to explain. I guess i was raised in the old fashion way where divorce wasn't something that happened. My grandparents on both sides were married until death (50 plus years) My parents were married 37 yrs until my Dad pasted in "96".
> 
> ...


HERE HERE!!!! BULLY, BULLY!!! a real man in the crowd!

congrats on your level of commitment! the vows were taken and witnessed by, well, you know...

just wanted to pop my head up and say RIGHT ON!


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## B10465 (May 5, 2009)

Lavender said:


> :scratchhead: This has me puzzled???
> I hope you realise eventually she is an Obsession/ Memory your holding on to past present and future .... your sending her the message there is no consequences for our hurtful choices and we can use our past dramas and negatives as a crutch and guilt free excuse to hurt the most important people to us .. If she has lived negative experiences she should remember how they felt and not be so quick to exspect others to endure them from her.. you make excuses & defend her actions Ignoring your own pain ??? theres blinders On clearly It should be learn and do better from negative make sure you dont cause the same confusion and pain to others .. not learn and reinflict justifying it for someone else to endure ...




Why is it that just because I am still in love with her that means she is an Obsession/ Memory. I would call it Unconditional Love...although I know that is something people have a hard time dealing with...it's easier to just say I'm holding on. As for the part about her thinking there are no consequences for her hurtful choices...she has had to deal with consequences...lossing the respect of long time family and friends and the fact that our kids choose to live with me and not her. Her choices brought her pain as well. As for her past 
dramas they are not excuses but they are underlying causes.
A persons past is like the foundation of a house...if it is cracked
then the house will have issues...As for my pain. My pain was lifted away sometime ago. Again that falls back to the Unconditional Love. Plus in closing she doesn't expect me to endure anything...she thought I would have walked away a long time ago...


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Put very eloquently. I hope you keep us updated in the future. Good luck.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm not going to be disrespectful of your position - but I am going to challenge it.
Unconditional Love is a red herring. Unconditional love is not about what you give out, it's about what you give up. If you love someone unconditionally what you choose to give up is your own sense of value. Loving someone without rules, boundaries, or expectation to receive something in return for your love, diminishes your own self-worth. And here's why. Love _*is*_ selfish, despite the parable.
Love is about you and what you feel, and what you get from that feeling. It's what brings you together in the first place. Perpetuating the sense of give and take in a balanced loving relationship sets the stage for a healthy marriage. But once that balance is lost, or gets completely out of whack, as in your circumstances, and mine, love stops working the way it is supposed to. 

Your sense of commitment is noble - but misplaced. You don't have a commitment, you have a need. 

So can I assume that your intention is to allow the affair to take it's course and then reconcile? If not, what is the outcome you are looking for? She moves on, and you live and die by your commitment?


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## B10465 (May 5, 2009)

Deejo said:


> Love _*is*_
> Love is about you and what you feel, and what you get from that feeling.
> 
> Your sense of commitment is noble - but misplaced. You don't have a commitment, you have a need.
> ...


Very well put however you are confusing the Feeling of Being in Love and Actually Love...It's that "feeling" that brings you together in the beginning. Actual Love is what binds your heart to someone. To Unconditionally Love someone you do give up yourself and move to a higher level. "Feelings" come and go but "Love" doesn't. It is that deeper Love that allows you to really forgive someone. Feelings let you say you have forgiven someone even when you still hold anger towards them.

As for my sense of commitment really being a need. If you mean I need to hold on to my belief that Love goes deeper then just the teenage type "feelings of Love" most people have
then I guess it is a need. 

As for the outcome I am looking for...Yes I would like to reconcile. I can't see the future and I will have to see where the road leads. Still in the end if we are together or not I will still Love her and stay true to my commitment.


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## Hopeful_SLP (Apr 14, 2009)

27-Female. Married for 2 years on May 19th. As a total romantic, I understand being torn between 2 guys. Although I'm married, I still wonder what if over past flames. I know for a fact that if my husband and I were to separate...there would be no taking back if I were to be with someone else, and vice versa. I love my husband very much and don't ever want to go a day without him, but if he were to leave me but still want to hang out, have sex, etc., I couldn't do it. It would be the hardest thing I would ever have to do! 
I can imagine that after 19 years, you love her very much and want her back in your life...despite whatever the cause of the separation. So I could see why you would want to hold on just a little longer. I see this two ways:
If she was the one who wanted out because of the way you treated her/didn't treat her--> She's found some guy who treated her the way she wanted to be treated at that time. Since she still wants to keep in contact, I don't think that she's given up yet. She obviously cares about you and wants you to be happy. 
OR, she wants to keep tabs on you. Have her cake and eat it too like someone else said. She may not mind that she's stringing oyu along because she's happy.
If she's not the mailicious type, tell her you still love her. Tell her that would like to give it another try and that you miss the little things about her: her smile, how she looks in the morning, her habits, etc. Show her how you've changed so that you can now make her happy. Tell her how still get butterflies when you see her. Renew your vows on a beach somewhere. If none of this works...then I don't know what to say. It would make me melt to know that my husband was missing me so much and would be willing to do anything to make me happy again! Please let us know how it goes! Best of luck


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

B,

I don't know whether to commend you for your resolve, or have sympathy for your level of self-sacrifice.
You obviously know what you want, unlike your wife. 
Your responses are thoughtful, and introspective. I understand your contrast of feeling love, versus practicing love. However I would also point out that being ‘_bound_’ to someone can have multiple connotations. Do women that remain in abusive relationships claiming to love their abuser, do so out of a healthy sense of being ‘bound’ by love? We could go back and forth for pages, but I concede that your position is unlikely to be swayed by anyone here. You indeed are in it, “for better or worse.” I wish you better, much, much better very soon.

I considered the very thing you are doing. In my marriage, I was the communicator. I am thoughtful, introspective, and take love and commitment very seriously. My spouse is a horrible communicator. Over the course of years, I would try to compensate for her shortcomings in the relationship because, ‘I love her’. We have two young children, one with special needs. 

Having children made our issues more glaring. She hyper-focused on the kids well-being and needs, especially my son. She wanted to be ‘super-mom’ in part because her childhood was pretty messed up. She abandoned virtually all responsibility outside of the scope of the kids. She didn’t cook. She didn’t food shop. She didn’t pay bills. She worked out of convenience, instead of need. She had no idea of what our financial circumstances were. Importantly, she didn’t want to know. She abandoned the marriage. 
We were without a doubt, a mother and a father – dedicated ones, but we were not a husband and a wife.

Without giving you the complete blow-by-blow, I chose to stop providing ‘unconditional love and support’. The moment I made that decision, everything fell apart. All that did in my eyes was confirm that she was only committed to _me_ as long as I met _her_ expectations. The moment I had expectations of her, she shut down, blamed me for everything that wasn’t working, (because she never took any responsibility for making it work in the first place), and because I disapproved of her, she sought approval with someone else. Honestly, at the time she began her affair, I already planned on moving out. My only wish was that she had been honest with me – which she wasn’t. She didn’t want me, but didn’t want to let go of me. So, she chose to minimize the nature of the relationship.

From my perspective, I will always have feelings for the mother of my children. But to preserve my self-respect, and in recognition that I have needs that she either will not, or cannot meet, regardless of the affair – I chose to let her go. And I truly believe, in the long-run, she, myself, and our children will be better for it.

I hope your circumstances work out to you and your wife’s benefit as well.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

B10465 said:


> Ok my ex and I have been apart for 2 yrs. There was no divorce.
> She however has been living with the man she left me for. Early on she said it was easier staying with him then working through the issue of her cheating on me. Here is the thing. She has told me that her and he don't have sex anymore. She and I made out a few times back in Dec 2008. She comes by my apartment for lunch from time to time and we talk through emails. Sometime she stops by my place in the morning on her way to work and I make her breakfast. None of this is known by the guy she is with. He doesn't like us to talk to each other.
> 
> She knows I have forgiven her and that I still love her. We had talked about having sex but she was like if he found out she would catch so much crap from him. Still we flirt with each other and today she came by for lunch. I had asked about hooking up for my 40th B-day this week and while having lunch she made a point of saying 5 times we aren't having sex on your B-day. The whole time playing with her hair. Twisting it with her finger.
> ...


I'm no expert but to me it sounds as if she gets into relationships based on sex and then dislikes the situation, always putting herself in a bad situation. I don't think she knows what she wants and seeks validation through a man.
It seems she may be very immature and taking the easy way out of growth and becoming an adult by leaning on men, then finds herself in another situation where she isn't happy. 
I'd say there isn't much you can do for her and she will have to learn about life the hard way as "tease" will have less appeal to worthwhile men who aren't going to want to involve themselves with someone like this.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

> _Originally posted by preso:_
> I'm no expert but to me it sounds as if she gets into relationships based on sex and then dislikes the situation, always putting herself in a bad situation. I don't think she knows what she wants and seeks validation through a man.
> It seems she may be very immature and taking the easy way out of growth and becoming an adult by leaning on men, then finds herself in another situation where she isn't happy.


- Immature
- Stunted Growth
- Requires Validation

Can't speak for B10465, but you practically quoted verbatim how our therapist summarized my wife's issues. Maybe you are an expert, and should go get yourself a license?

The therapist firmly believes, as do I, that her parents severely stunted her growth as an individual. They didn't trust her, they didn't show her love, teach her self-reliance or independence. They kept her in line by putting her down. If she asked about something she wasn't familiar with, they couldn't just give her an answer, they had to dismiss, or mock, or withhold. What they consistently hammered home, whether she was 12 or 32, was that she was neither intelligent enough, or capable enough to do anything on her own. I witnessed it over and over.

I also swore if I ever saw them pulling that crap with our children, things would get very unpleasant. Knowing how she was damaged was one of the factors that I weighed heavily in trying to tough it out through our issues - but the more I reached out, the more she pushed away, and the angrier I became. In contrast, now that I'm done and doing fine on my own? She is more attentive and finds me 'approachable', whereas the angry, critical guy, made her feel 12 again.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

B10465 said:


> Very well put however you are confusing the Feeling of Being in Love and Actually Love...It's that "feeling" that brings you together in the beginning. Actual Love is what binds your heart to someone. To Unconditionally Love someone you do give up yourself and move to a higher level. "Feelings" come and go but "Love" doesn't. It is that deeper Love that allows you to really forgive someone. Feelings let you say you have forgiven someone even when you still hold anger towards them.
> 
> As for my sense of commitment really being a need. If you mean I need to hold on to my belief that Love goes deeper then just the teenage type "feelings of Love" most people have
> then I guess it is a need.
> ...


well I agree for the most part with your ideas of love although I differ in that I feel love is an action and should not be based on feelings, as feelings change. Commitment in marriage does not and should not change based upon feelings, the right actions should be taken to convey love,m even if the action is tolerance
( does not apply to abuse)...
not always an easy thing to do... and it cannot be one from one side only.


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## B10465 (May 5, 2009)

Well I saw her on Friday and I have to say it was nice. She let me borrow her car to take our daughter to an appointment. I also found out that it seems she was taking meds for depression for no reason. A lot of our problems came from her going from I love you (to me doing something like not doing the dishes) and then her going to I hate you. She blamed her bad moods on me. Well it turns out after finally going to a Mental Health Professional they told her she was Bi-Polar. Something I had suggest years ago only to be yelled at. She said it was depression and that was why the doctor put her on the Prozac, only thing was the doctor was just a family doctor. So know she is on new Meds. Only time will time how they will work. I can't ask her since I'm not suppose to know...our 15 year old daughter let it slip that Mommy was taking the new pills.


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