# The Internet ruined "us"



## Gemi (Jun 15, 2016)

This will be a long post so please bare with me. 

My husband and I are 33 and have a 4 year old child together. Some back story on us:

We met in HS when he was a freshman and I was sophomore. We were friends for years. At some point we lost touch then reconnected which is a story on it's own. But needless to say we were the best of friends. One was never seen to often without the other. As time and years went on we'll skip to when we were almost 21. At this point in life feelings were shared and openly discussed and we became a couple. Fast forward 4 years later and it was in the beginning of 2008 and we were due to be wed in Sept. This is really where things begin. 

I had always known he looked at porn. I didn't approve of it since we were in a very healthy sexually active relationship. When we lived apart and didn't get the chance to be intimate when we felt like it I understood and was fine with it to a point. I even tried to watch it with him a few times back in those days. But then once we lived together to me that is the point where it's time to put things like that away. Its unnecessary when you have a living breathing human with you when you have free time and who was willing to try anything especially in the first year of our living together. And before some one asks what changed in that thought it was only the idea of a three way. I could not longer bring myself to do something like that. I'm not into sharing or open relationships. I've never cheated once nor has the thought ever crossed my mind. 

Any way moving on with this. It was early in the year of 2008 and I needed to find something that was on my browser history from a few weeks back. Something for a class that I no longer remember what I was looking for but that's not the point. The point is that at the time I could not remember when I had see the article I needed and so I was zombie scrolling through my history on my pc. Now let me say we each had our own pc however his was in the living room and mine in our bedroom. We also had room mates in 2008. As I'm scrolling I notice that daily there are porn links listed. Not just one or two in a little bit of time but 10+ within several hours time. At this point I work a morning shift and he was on third shift. So He would get home from work around 6am and we would have breakfast together, and spend time together in many ways (yes sex as well) before I ultimately had to leave for work at 9am. Then I would be back from work around 3pm or so and we would spend the evening together if we were both home for that time. (Meaning we were young and would do things with friends in the afternoon frequently) But no matter what we had always spent time together before he left for work. 

With that said I raised a brow at the amount of sites I was seeing. I started feeling hurt as I was watching exactly what he had, while thinking to myself I can not compare to these women. As far as the acts performed within the videos we had done them. In many cases multiple times. I had never denied him not once. Again healthy sexually active relationship. So now I was not only hurt feeling that he felt that he needed to spend this much time on this but I was confused as to why and I began to feel betrayed and used. It was ok to have sex with me but only if he had someone else on the mind?

I breached the subject with him and told him how I felt. He had the response of it's just the internet and it's just porn. The amount of time isn't anything because "time gets lost to him". He loves me and so on with that type of thing. I was promised that he would pull back from it but he didn't get the "big deal of it". I let it slide for a little while. 

Going forward I was with one of my bridesmaids and we were at my pc looking at dresses. I remembered one I had found a couple nights back and went to pull it up. I went to my history and before I could even search for what I thought would tag the dress there was a listing of porn sites yet again right there at the top of the history. At first my gf giggled thinking that since the pc was in our room we had been using it as incentive, until she had seen my face. Now I was not only embarrassed but beyond hurt because now in my emotional state of being I decide to go ahead and scroll. And again found that it was a daily thing with several hours at a time if time stamps were an indication. 

We had a major fight. Now the largest thing to consider is that we do not fight. Sure there is a disgruntled moment or two between us on occasion but not a fight. Not yelling screaming and tears. That is what this was. I had explained in length how this made me feel. How I felt like I needed to live up to some unrealistic fantasy because I can never and would never look anything like the women he was watching. How I felt like he has cheated on me considering the amount of time spent with these sites daily. I laid it all out, how I thought he was going to be pulling back from it and how he promised me and how he had broken my trust. I told him everything from my own esteem issues to beyond. He still didn't seem to understand fully but again promised that he would slow down. 

Things went on for several more weeks and at this point I was stressed with work, school, and the wedding. Self doubt came up and I went to the history and found it didn't slow down in the slightest. Not even a little. And so, I left my ring on the table and told him I was done. I was worth more then this. I was worth more then to be lied to and mentally cheated on. The wedding is off and I'm leaving. This time he cried. Reaffirmed how much he loved me and begged me to put my ring back on and stay. He would change. He would cut it back and eventually be done with it all together. 

I stayed. We got married and I tried to trust my husband. Time moves on and our first year of marriage goes by in a flash, school, moving, and so on. Then one day he tells me his pc isn't working right and asks me to fix it. Between us I'm a tech guru. I currently am an IT person. He is not by any means. He can run a pc and it's programs and even then there are times that's asking a lot. So I take a look at his pc. It's riddled with backdoors, worms, and spyware. So as I'm clearing everything I go to the history cash to clear it as well and the site names are showing in some of the folders. Again I am emotional and I look at time stamps and again I see nothing has changed. I thought we had moved past this that my feelings were more important to him then this. But I had been fooled it seemed. 

There was no fight this time. I pulled away into depression and let it take over. I put everything I had into school and work. I even pulled away sexually. My mind telling me I was not good enough for him and I no longer wanted to be naked with him near let alone intimate. When friends saw us we were the ideal of happy in love couple. But at home I was distant and filled with nothing but self loathing. This went on for months. I would periodically ask him how he had been doing with kicking his addiction. He woulds say things like he was doing great and hadn't looked at porn in so long and so on. Things he thought I wanted to hear, but all I wanted to hear was the truth. I had told him during the last battle over this that if he needed help I was here and so on. I understand an addiction is hard to quit and so on. But he never once told me the truth all the while I knew the truth. So it ate away at me more. 

Finally it came to a head on my birthday of all times. We had been drinking and he was incredibly drunk while I was not. It was just he and I and so, knowing I would get the truth then, I asked him once more. He laughed asked me why I would want to ruin a good night with that line of questioning. But I pushed and he finally admitted what I had known all along. And I told him as much once he did. 

And again there were tears on my part as I handed him my wedding ring and locked myself in my office. For the next three days I didn't talk to him. I had nothing to say. I was done with being lied to for so long over and over again. We were both wrecks but I had to be true to myself in some way. Yes you change for the other person in a relationship but I had been the only one to make changes and sacrifices in our life together. So after three days I broke down and told him this and that I would be filing for divorce. When we started this relationship we both agreed cheating was an end all for us and so I would not live my life with my husband doing so. Even if it was only mentally. He flipped out begging and began his own self loathing. We talked a lot. And both knew we couldn't see our lives without one another but I stuck with my choice while he continued to beg me to stay. I told him if I stayed then that's it. The porn 100% had to go. No more of it. Not so much as a hint of it or I'm out the door with no warning. He agreed.

Again time moved on and we did as well. We were happy together and began talking about trying to have a child. And we did. And for years while it was still in my mind and we still had talks (no fighting just civil conversation and open feelings) about it because of that factor, we were happy. I never left him in the dark on my feelings. But I also stopped looking over his shoulder. I gave him what little trust I had again. 

Which brings us to the last 6 months. In Jan I was on his laptop to play a game of mine that runs better on his pc then my own. I had opened the browser to pull a site that I had looked at with tips and such a couple days prior. And that's when I noticed facebook page names that triggered something dark from my past. I clicked them and it was those pages of women in their undergarments. Pages where it's the women themselves posting this sort of thing for the attention of it all. This time the time stamps are even more sickening because they are during work when he's on breaks and texting me, or worst yet when our daughter is sitting with us on the couch and he's there on his laptop in the evening. I had noticed from time to time that he would suddenly click to diff spots when she would crawl up to him but I passed that off as gaming sites. We play things like Fallout and Skyrim and the images of the creatures are not something we necessarily want her seeing and causing nightmares. 

So I cried and damned myself for ever trusting him again. For thinking that for once in my life I could be happy. And I messaged him with the page names in detail and the times and went off. I told him this was it. I'm gone and I'm done. He left work early and we had it out. He said it wasn't porn it was "just facebook". I told him it made it worse as these were the women themselves posting these things that all he had to do is click and BOOM he's chatting with one. How for the first time ever I didn't know what to think if he was cheating or not. He blamed one of our mutual friends online because he would like the pages or posts and it would show in my husbands feed. But I had gone off further because he made it a point to actively click on the links rather then just "get away with it a little" and scroll past the pics. There was no understanding there only anger over it all. He claimed it was at himself but he directed it at me in defending his actions because it was not porn. To me it was. We went at it for hours about it all and then my daughter's bus pulled up and it stopped. I refused to fight in front of her. The next day she was home from school with me and she told me how her daddy was sad and that daddy told her that no matter what he loved her. My daughter convinced me to stay in that conversation as it went on and on. I told him as much. 

We had civil conversations about this all at that time. He understood I was staying so as to not break my daughter's heart with my own. And he claimed he wouldn't look anymore. But he didn't delete the person or block the sites till several weeks later when the conversation came up yet again. I had told him I looked into some apartments. And when he asked what they were like I had told him it was for our daughter and I only. Again he asked why and thought we were trying to move on but I had pointed out he had shown no signs of guilt and had not even bothered to remove the issue. 

It has been six months and things romantically are rocky at best. I do regular checks of his pc and although the out right looking for things of this nature has stopped he watches somethings that make those terrible thoughts and feelings surface. I wrote him a note last night while he was sleeping explaining this. Telling him I knew he wasn't actively searching for these things when all he was looking up was mods for games but he needs to think of how this looks to me. The only reason I wrote him was because it was 3am and he was asleep and had work in the morning. I said that to him as well. I told him exactly what my mind goes through. I was not aggressive. I was trying to tell him how it looks to me at first look and are these things he would want our daughter seeing? Did he really want to put more unrealistic body images in her mind from the one man in the world she is to trust? I'm a gamer I get it that the women characters are made a certain way. But when he's looking at mods that enhance those things it makes me wonder. 

He does not talk to me all day. Rather I get a hurtful msg about how he's sick of trying to make up for my father's misgivings, and how if he wanted to leave or didn't want me he wouldn't be here. He tells me he loves one minute and then yell at me the next about being irrational asking him to change himself and not doing so myself. I got the msg as he was going back to work after his lunch was over. He had 2 prior times to of msg me today and chose to wait until it was time for me to start working and him to go back before he sent the msg. 

Clearly I was hurt. I went through my short work day and did not pick up my phone again until I was done and sitting on my couch. And so I see msgs from his other two breaks for the day with "love you" for both of them. Hurt and angry I told him I was sorry for everything he feels is wrong with me. It was much much longer but that is what it boils down to. 

When he got home dinner was ready we ate as a "family" he played with our daughter and then she went to bed. He normally will read her her story and do the last tuck in. When he came out he sits down and is quiet. I sat there reading random buzzfeed articles trying not to cry in front of him and trying to numb my brain. Eventually he asked if I was going to say anything and I told him something about the weather. He groans and I then start crying still not talking. Eventually I break my silence and tell him I really have nothing more to say. I've said it all and clearly this is such an ingrained part of how he is that he felt the need to get defensive yet again and to claim I was trying to change him as a person rather then asking him to be faithful to his wife as I had been to him. 

We eventually sort of argue trying to keep from waking our child but I had no fight left in me. He had brought up things I had said in the first argument over this years ago. I admitted I prolly said those things verbatim in order to hurt him as much as I was hurt. I was young. These last 6 months proved I've changed due to my far less venom filled retorts of old. As we went back and forth I folded. I told him he wins. Everything I had done these last 6 months I had done to try for us. I went to my doctor and got on a strict weight loss regiment. I started doing my hair and makeup again (something I got out of habit with having had our daughter). I had even been sending him random shirtless shots here and there through the day asking if he liked the color bra I was wearing. I was trying new things in the bedroom again. I had been doing nothing but trying to sweep his eyes my way. But clearly I'm wrong. And so I told him I don't care what he does anymore. I'm done saying anything on it all. If the women of the internet are that important that he will take an aggressive stance when I try and tell him how some of the things I see make me feel even though I know the innocent intent behind them, then by all means have them. I won't stand in his way. If no matter what I do or say I will always be second in his eyes then that's my lot in life. But there are consequences for his choices. 

He was upset and angry this time at himself. Saying that of the two good things in his life he's failing one. And so on with that rout. Again I went silent. Eventually he said he was taking his nightly shower and left the room. When he came out he plugged his phone on the charger and said he was going to bed. It was 9pm he generally goes to bed at 11pm. I questioned him on this and he said that yes he's going to bed now. There was still the goodnight and "I love you" we always say before bed but no attempt at a kiss or hug. There had been no attempt at physical contact at all today. 

So after all this I have to ask, am I in the right at all to feel the way I do? We love each other. I'm in physical pain over this as well as emotional and have been these last 6 months. I know he loves me. But I feel lost and scared and confused over it all. I don't know what to do with myself. There's no one I'm close to to really talk about it. And no one I know has gone through this that I have spoken with. They either think I'm odd for my thoughts and feelings or they have no thoughts to share. I want to save my marriage but I don't know how. I feel like I'm lying to myself if I stay but if I go I'll be digging my own grave. I would survive alone and all but I would never recover. He's the love of my life. I don't how to move on though after trying so many times. And I know at this point I've mentally stepped out on this whole thing for the time being. Please I need some sort of guidance. Some one who's gone through this from either end. Something. Please.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

I confess, I didn't read everything. But you need to keep in mind that love is an action. It's how we treat someone else.

You have told him many times that his porn viewing habits hurt you deeply, and he has chosen to ignore you. Thus, by his actions, he is telling you that porn is more important to him than you are.

So, when you say "I know he loves me", yes, that may be true. But evidently, he loves porn even more.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Read somewhere once that no don't a person by their words (that's what they want to everyone to believe), or by their actions (that's what they hope to do)...but by their habits, is who they really are.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It must be really hard to be married to a man with a porn addiction. I am so sorry for your suffering, OP. 
@farsidejunky 

Can you share any insight from your own experience with her, far?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He hasn't changed because there have been no consequences. You cry and explain and then everything goes back to the usual. If this is a deal-breaker, then divorce. Obviously, it hasn't been because you're still there. Either get over it or get out because you're just making yourself and your addict husband miserable. And, now, you get to drag an innocent child through the fallout. 

I vote for getting out. Why? Do you really want this guy to be a role model for your daughter?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I know this isn't quite the help you're looking for, but all the same, it's relevant.

If you're the tech guru of the house, and he can basically only operate a computer - block the hell out of those sites, keywords, etc.

Not as punishment or payback, but out of necessity. You have a child in the home (too young to use a computer, yes, but all the same) AND you've come across these sites in the history while in the company of other people.

It's almost like having a fully stocked liquor cabinet without a lock on it, currently, and he's an alcoholic. And seeing as how he's unwilling to put a stop to it himself, I see no problem with intervening.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Some bad advice for you.... since you know your husband's patterns of behavior, create a fake online identity and reach out to him in a way that you know he will respond. Begin trying to have an anonymous online emotional affair with your husband and see what you actually learn about him and perhaps yourself. Get him to fall in love with the online version of yourself and see if you can convince him to tell you about the things his wife will not do for him and talk crap about her with him. Then one day see if you can get him to meet you in real life. .... at that point while you are with your husband, let him watch as you log in as your "online self" to chat with him to say that you will meet him on the couch for a talk. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: The Internet ruined &amp;quot;us&amp;quot;*

The hardest part of this situation is as follows:

You don't have to accept this behavior, nor does he have to change. But what that means is that you're not compatible.

I am a pornography addict. I have struggled with addictions off and on throughout my life, which has included methamphetamines, alcohol, and nicotine. None of them have the pull of pornography. None.

If my wife would have given me ultimatums like you have, I would have just gotten better at hiding it. He can't quit for you, or it will never last. He has to want to quit for himself, and even then it will be a struggle.

A couple of things motivated me. I wanted my marriage to be great. I was tired of being ashamed of who I was. I wanted to be able to look myself in the mirror and be proud. Until he is ready for all of these things, it won't change. 

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you have told him the boundary and the consequence. If you want him to respect your word, you must now and enact that consequence. 

It may be enough for him to pull his head out of his rear end. However, this is the type of thing that takes either an incredibly strong person, which he does not sound like, or lots of therapy. 

Even then there are no guarantees, and relapses are common.

If it were me, I would separate en route to divorce. He may ask you what he should do. Don't tell him. If he wants it bad enough, he will figure it out. 

I would give him a set amount of time, say 6 months to a year. Make the divorce final on that deadline. He has until then to not only lay it down, but show you what steps he is taking to beat the addiction.

If he resists, simply hold your hand up and say:

"I won't share my husband with pornography."

Then leave him with his thoughts.

I am sorry you are here. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
apologies if I missed it in your long post. Does he turn you down for sex and watch porn instead, or is your sex life otherwise good?


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## Gemi (Jun 15, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Do you really want this guy to be a role model for your daughter?


This is exactly something I've asked myself and I've brought up to him when this came to a head again in Jan. I do not want her around this type of behavior. And I do not want her to bend to what has become the social norm of our times in that "it's just porn". I'm sick of that excuse being said in general to anyone. I read some ones thread on here I don't remember who it was but I know it's titled some thing like "Just a little porn" needless to say the man admits to his addiction and while that thread is not about his addiction per say I see where he's said that it is unfair to all of us in this day and age. Not so long ago you had to leave the home in order to see women in positions like this, pay for it, possible get sick from it. Now sex is a key stroke away. He's right and I understand that. But it's the job of parents to help curb this behavior early on. My husbands did not and I know from our extensive talks this started early on in life. Him being left home when he played "sick" from school while both parents were at work and he was in his early teens. 



alexm said:


> I know this isn't quite the help you're looking for, but all the same, it's relevant.
> 
> If you're the tech guru of the house, and he can basically only operate a computer - block the hell out of those sites, keywords, etc.


I thought of this. Back when we were still newlyweds. My husband had even offered that suggestion, but I didn't want to be "that person". I wanted to be able to trust him and in order to do that I had to leave it to him to make the choices. I am now reconsidering this option if I stay. 



badsanta said:


> Some bad advice for you....


I won't lie that deff was some bad advice. It would be a giant lie and I value honesty far too much. BUT I will say it made me laugh at least and I kindda needed that. So I'll ty for that. 



farsidejunky said:


> The hardest part of this situation is as follows:
> 
> You don't have to accept this behavior, nor does he have to change. But what that means is that you're not compatible.


First let me say ty for responding here. This is what I needed. Someone going through what I am or some one who is in line with my husband. It hurts. The truth of your words. It does. We are perfect in any other way then this element of our life. He's an amazing father. And subtracting out the porn issue of our life he's wonderful to me. But I know how true what you're saying is. I need to hold my head up a little higher and put my foot down and follow through. I realize how hard addiction is. I've watched family struggle with various ones over the years. I fully understand that relapse can happen. I had told him years ago that if he needed help I would help. If he had a fall back all he had to do was tell me. Don't let me just find it. The just finding it is what hurts more. I had nothing but time to think on all of this last night not only while I was posting but after. With father's day this weekend I do not want to separate the two of them yet. Our daughter is excited to get to celebrate this weekend and has been counting down the days till so. But your right. I'm putting us through more pain by not following through. In our state with a child a divorce takes a minimum of 1 year to finalize. That's with no contest. I plan to stay in the area so he will get to see our daughter as often as he wants. I'm not a monster. Just because I can't share him doesn't mean my daughter has to miss out on her father. But she shouldn't be subject to this behavior and I shouldn't have to hide my tears let alone shed them. So again ty.




richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> apologies if I missed it in your long post. Does he turn you down for sex and watch porn instead, or is your sex life otherwise good?


He does not. And our sex life is great. Other then when I was completely depressed and pulled away emotionally years ago before our daughter was born, there had never been a sexual issue. And even then it was me that did not want to be intimate.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Some bad advice for you....





Gemi said:


> I won't lie that deff was some bad advice. *It would be a giant lie *and *I value honesty far too much*. BUT I will say it made me laugh at least and I kindda needed that. So I'll ty for that.


Sometimes honesty about things that makes us vulnerable will hide behind lies. So disguising yourself as a lie in order to get your husband comfortable enough to have an honest conversation and be truthful about things is not necessarily bad advice. 

*If you did that for the purpose of hurting/punishing him, YES that would be very bad.* If you did that out of sincere love and care to help him and your relationship, I think most people would consider that _a compassionate use of a lie_. 

WHAT IF you were to actually do this and discover your husband is suffering from severe depression and suicidal thoughts? For whatever reason he us unable to share this with you so that you can help him and talk about it. 

Watch a few episodes of MTV's "Catfish" which is about online relationships combined with dishonesty. This show does the research to actually come face to face with people behind the online lies (which perhaps sounds like your husband) and find out what is actually going on. It is a rather humbling show about lies, vulnerability, acceptance, and forgiveness. 

They are all available on HULU with a subscription http://www.hulu.com/catfish-the-tv-show

If anything, sit down and watch a few of these shows together with your husband and see if that helps him open up with you. 

Regards,
Badsanta


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Far far far too long of an opening post so I read only half way down, till you got married and had a baby daughter and found Facebook pages of scantily clad women.

You are threatened by porn. I do not understand why you are threatened by porn because obviously your husband loves and adores you and you have a fantastic sex life...so what's the big deal about him watching porn? Why does this threaten you? Why does the fact that there are naked women having sex in front of a camera, who have porn star bodies threaten you? Are you threatened when at the beach a porn worthy body walks by in a skimpy bikini? Are you threatened if your husband encounters and interacts with a woman who you think is hotter than you are?

I really need to understand why you feel porn is such a threat to your marriage when it has absolutely no effect on how your husband interacts with you?

I am a woman. I am 53 and the last time I had a porn star body was 23 years ago. And yet, I'm totally okay with porn. I like it myself occasionally. 

Seeing a naked woman will not cause my husband to feel less attraction toward me, or to love me less. The same goes for your husband.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> Far far far too long of an opening post so I read only half way down, till you got married and had a baby daughter and found Facebook pages of scantily clad women.
> 
> You are threatened by porn. I do not understand why you are threatened by porn because obviously your husband loves and adores you and you have a fantastic sex life...so what's the big deal about him watching porn? Why does this threaten you? Why does the fact that there are naked women having sex in front of a camera, who have porn star bodies threaten you? Are you threatened when at the beach a porn worthy body walks by in a skimpy bikini? Are you threatened if your husband encounters and interacts with a woman who you think is hotter than you are?
> 
> ...


THAT.

I think you want to own your husband's thoughts, OP.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Far far far too long of an opening post so I read only half way down, till you got married and had a baby daughter and found Facebook pages of scantily clad women.
> 
> You are threatened by porn. I do not understand why you are threatened by porn because obviously your husband loves and adores you and you have a fantastic sex life...so what's the big deal about him watching porn? Why does this threaten you? Why does the fact that there are naked women having sex in front of a camera, who have porn star bodies threaten you? Are you threatened when at the beach a porn worthy body walks by in a skimpy bikini? Are you threatened if your husband encounters and interacts with a woman who you think is hotter than you are?
> 
> ...


 @Anon Pink I actually AGREE with everything you say, but let me play devil's advocate for a moment:



Gemi said:


> So after all this I have to ask, am I in the right at all to feel the way I do? We love each other. I'm in physical pain over this as well as emotional and have been these last 6 months.


*If as a husband he is doing something (regardless of what) that hurts her, he should be able to STOP.* At least until they talk through things and she clearly understands there is nothing to be worried about. Or there could be something problematic lurking beneath the surface that she needs to be aware about so that she can address it. 

I went through a similar situation regarding porn and my wife. It was not easy for me to stop and reconcile her concerns. In my case it was coming to an understanding that we grew up with very different views on self exploration. I refused to be ashamed of my views, BUT I did stop so that we could air out the issues and understand what was going on. She eventually came to understand me, but wanted to have a say so of why she considered some "things" objectionable and for me to refrain from viewing or interacting in a certain context. Arriving at that point was NOT easy. 
*
Bottom line though, if she is hurting, he should stop!*

Badsanta


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## SouthernViking (May 7, 2016)

I would suggest these things. 
1). Be very up front with him and tell him he has to change. It's either his addiction or you. He has to show his love to one or the other but not both.
2). Tell him it's a must for counseling. Encourage him, remind him you love him and your marriage is a long journey and this is just a speed bump you have to go over to continue.
3). He is to tell you, immediately, if he has an urge to look at any porn. Tell him you and only you are to be his outlet for sexual contact. That means physical and visual.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

I've always thought that every man looked at porn. Am I wrong on this? So I guess in my eyes, I don't really see an 'issue' with it as long as it doesn't affect your sex life with spouse. However, I don't agree with porn as I think it portrays a completely unrealistic of view of sex and women.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

badsanta said:


> @Anon Pink I actually AGREE with everything you say, but let me play devil's advocate for a moment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry I do not agree. Unless porn viewing prevents the viewer from being able to offer all the sexual energy the spouse wishes to have, it is none of the spouses business.

Do you bar your husband from buying sports illustrated swim suit edition?

Do you bar your husband from seeing any movie with an R rating because there might be naked girls?

Okay so sex is where you draw the line, then how about game of thrones, is that not allowed because there is naked sex in that show with perfect porn bodies?

Being married does not mean you own the other persons right to make choices as an adult. 

Sex is not shameful and wanting to watch sex is not shameful.

No, giving in to someone's misplaced sense of decency or insecurity is not growth, it is forced repression and I'm against that.


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## Gemi (Jun 15, 2016)

badsanta said:


> Sometimes honesty about things that makes us vulnerable will hide behind lies. So disguising yourself as a lie in order to get your husband comfortable enough to have an honest conversation and be truthful about things is not necessarily bad advice.


I think the issue I have with this is that I would basically be seducing my husband in a sense, but not as myself as some fake made up person I believe he would want. And then if he does bait in and take it how am I to feel? Should I be happy to learn all the things he wouldn't tell me or should I be depressed further and even more hurt because I learned all the things he would not tell *Me*? I do fully appreciate and understand where you are going with this line of thought though. But I think in this situation, considering that it is already so confusing for me, it would only add to my confusion and hurt.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Since all else is fine, just ask your husband to clear his browsing history, caches and be more mindful of the threat of viruses etc.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Personal said:


> Since all else is fine, just ask your husband to clear his browsing history, caches and be more mindful of the threat of viruses etc.


Duh! The simplest solution is the most difficult to see.:grin2:


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## Gemi (Jun 15, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> Far far far too long of an opening post so I read only half way down, till you got married and had a baby daughter and found Facebook pages of scantily clad women.
> 
> You are threatened by porn. I do not understand why you are threatened by porn because obviously your husband loves and adores you and you have a fantastic sex life...so what's the big deal about him watching porn? Why does this threaten you? Why does the fact that there are naked women having sex in front of a camera, who have porn star bodies threaten you? Are you threatened when at the beach a porn worthy body walks by in a skimpy bikini? Are you threatened if your husband encounters and interacts with a woman who you think is hotter than you are?
> 
> ...





Anon Pink said:


> Sorry I do not agree. Unless porn viewing prevents the viewer from being able to offer all the sexual energy the spouse wishes to have, it is none of the spouses business.
> 
> Do you bar your husband from buying sports illustrated swim suit edition?
> 
> ...



You are correct about my feeling threatened. I believe I made that clear in my too long for you to fully read post. I had even said that he was viewing woman that I could never dream to compare to. And YES that was part of the issue. Because of the fact that he was viewing the women in positions we ourselves had been in. Obviously there is a HUGE deal over him watching porn in my mind or I wouldn't be on the internet exposing myself to the possibility of hostile responses to my situation. 

Let me go through *EACH *of your questions in detail so that you may possibly better understand my thoughts. 

This threatens me because AGAIN these women are nothing I can ever come close or have ever come close to comparing to physically or visually. Congratulations to you and having once had "the porn star body" even if it had been 23 years ago. That's wonderful! However please keep in mind that not every woman has ever been fortunate to be in that position. Even in their "prime". That life is cruel and that society places labels on those that do not fit the cookie cutter shape of femininity and beauty. So when you find out that your husband (who is well aware of your self esteem issues) is engaging in a "*relationship*" (and *YES *I will call it that because when you are watching daily and for HOURS at a stretch that is giving forth time and effort that could be attributed to such.) with women like this that are performing the SAME sexual acts that you have done within your own real life relationship, it causes an issue. The line of thought becomes one of which that becomes self damning and damaging all around. You begin to ask yourself if he is even thinking of you while you engage in sex or is he envisioning the woman he watched? Are you only performing such acts because its pleasing or because he's trying to relive the fantasy with said women he was watching? Are you even capable of satisfying your husband? What is so wrong with you that even though he seems sexually satisfied and pleased and tells you such that he needs to seek outside stimulation? This line of thinking then leads you to realize that if any of this is true then essentially he is cheating on you. If you are thinking of some one else while engaged in sexual acts with another then realistically you are cheating either on the person you are envisioning or on the human you are engaging with. . Sex isn't just that. I'm sorry if that may be how *You* feel but it is not that way to me. Sex in any fashion of the act is something you engage in with some one you love and care for. You are opening yourself to being in a vulnerable position physically and emotionally. Considering the frequency and amount in which he watched it was cheating. There were times in which he was interacting with porn more so then with myself or even friends. 

Now then. If some one is single or lives on there own and they decided they wanted to spend weeks on end watching then more power to them. That is there choice. Would it be my own? No. However who am I to begrudge someone with no personal connection to a human? 

But when you are in a long term committed relationship where sex is a part of it, especially in a marriage, then anything sexual becomes *BOTH *individuals concern. Commitment like that means that you will do your best to make your partner happy. You are to emotionally and physically try and fulfill one another. So to seek stimulation outside of that relationship, when not on a consensual basis, is sharing what should belong to the two people. It is lying to your SO. It is essentially cheating. 

To you porn is not an issue. You have such a high self worth that you do not feel a threat. You say you partake on your own right. That is *your* choice. Those are *your *beliefs. Those are *your *feelings. *Clearly I do not share any of those with you.* 

Do I feel threatened by women who I feel are more attractive? *YES*. Again congratulations to you and not having body issues. But please remember *you are in a MINORITY* with that. I do not know a single woman in my life that is so 100% with herself to not have felt the tiniest bit threatened by the physical beauty of another woman. Especially one interacting with their SO. As for the beach, I can and will admit that I feel continually less attractive while in swim ware and in the presence of women who seem "made" for the bikini they are in. As a matter of fact I envy them because no matter how hard I try to make my physical appearance better (something you would know I've been doing had you read on) I can never and will never look like they do. My shape and physical form is not capable of it. Even when I was an athlete and in top form. So yes while I understand the human nature to "look at the view" it does not make the pain you feel when you catch your SO doing so any less. 

To move on to your second posting. Anything that would objectify woman and place body issues on them is banned from my home. I have a 4 year old daughter who I will do my *VERY *damnedest to keep those issues from imprinting on her. Sex is everywhere I can not control it outside of my home. But within the walls of my home will be a safe place for her to grow and empower herself so that she doesn't share the same mental view I do when she looks in a mirror. I do not ban R movies or shows in our home when she is not present. Like any self respecting parent though all I can say is that of course things with sexual content are not to be played while she is awake. Now with that said let me AGAIN reiterate something you would have read had you continued on. The facebook pages were something he was viewing while sitting in our front room on the couch with our daughter running around and playing. The images of these women in provocative positions in next to nothing are a bit much for a child to see. And how am I to know that he had ALWAYS been quick enough to closing the tab when she was about? Better question yet should a small impressionable child bare witness to their parent enjoying and openly viewing images that objectify people? Is that really the silent lesson you should teach children? 

It is not that sex is where I draw the line. It is that I draw the line at feeling second rate in his eyes when all I have ever done is honor our commitment to one another and kept him as my top choice in life. It is that porn has made sex feel violated to me as I feel like I'm being used to satisfy an urge because I'm here and available. Not because my husband truly wants to have sex with me. But because he wants what he's seen and can't have that so he will use me as an outlet while another is on his mind. 

And you are 100% sex is not shameful. However, when you are with someone and you are deeply committed or married then "your choices as an adult" have an effect on *BOTH *of you. By saying "I do" you have chosen to make those decisions together so that you both may GROW TOGETHER. Especially where sex is concerned. It is an act of intimacy that takes consent. Now had you paid attention to what you decided to read of my original post, I had stated that when this first came up I was upset and told him as much. I did not demand or push a view onto him. I expressed my feelings. *HE *was the one to promise that it would become less constant in his daily life. When he *LIED *about that I clearly became *HURT*. I understand addiction. I wanted to help him. but *HE *chose a rout of lie and deceit on it. Yes *EVENTUALLY* after being lied to over and over, being given false promises *made by HIM* and not asked of by me, I put the demand of "choose" because AGAIN I do not think a SO should ever have to be made to feel second best, which is what his behavior was and is doing to me. 


Now then. I hope that so long as you bothered to read to the end you understand my beliefs slightly better. If you don't I will be more than happy to explain in further detail anything you like. As I said, since I placed myself here pleading for help, I have opened myself for hostile responses and I'm fully capable of handling those.


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## Gemi (Jun 15, 2016)

Personal said:


> Since all else is fine, just ask your husband to clear his browsing history, caches and be more mindful of the threat of viruses etc.


That's actually how yesterday had started. All I was asking was for that because of how things looked at first glance. He became upset and agitated and initiated and argument over it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Gemi said:


> You are correct about my feeling threatened. I believe I made that clear in my too long for you to fully read post. I had even said that he was viewing woman that I could never dream to compare to. And YES that was part of the issue. Because of the fact that he was viewing the women in positions we ourselves had been in. Obviously there is a HUGE deal over him watching porn in my mind or I wouldn't be on the internet exposing myself to the possibility of hostile responses to my situation.
> 
> Let me go through *EACH *of your questions in detail so that you may possibly better understand my thoughts.
> 
> ...


Watch porn together and get over it.

How would you react if your husband waltzed into the room and demand you stop reading 50 shades of grey or whatever passes for mommy porn these days?

"Listen wife, I know our relationship is great and you have great sex with me. But you reading those words really make me insecure, so stop it!"


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## Gemi (Jun 15, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> Duh! The simplest solution is the most difficult to see.:grin2:


LOL Folks don't get me wrong if he had ever just thought to clear his history I would have been none the wiser. It's not like I would have done a reload and dig if I didn't know he had an issue. But he didn't and doesn't. The deeper issue the more I think on this is the lying about it. I've said it a few times here, I wanted to help the situation not slide it under a rug. I had given so many chance to give me the truth even if after the fact. The lying over it is what has hurt the most.


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## Gemi (Jun 15, 2016)

marduk said:


> Watch porn together and get over it.
> 
> How would you react if your husband waltzed into the room and demand you stop reading 50 shades of grey or whatever passes for mommy porn these days?
> 
> "Listen wife, I know our relationship is great and you have great sex with me. But you reading those words really make me insecure, so stop it!"


Sorry to break it to you but I have not watched porn since the last time I tried to do so with him back when we were dating. And I've never once been into trashy romance novels or movies. Let alone ones based on fan fictions that are written about terrible plot lined sparkly vampires....

However, if I did, and he approached me in the same manor I did to him we'd talk about it and I'd do my best to try and make our relationship work. If I told him I would do something about it I would work damn hard at doing what I said I would.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Gemi said:


> Sorry to break it to you but I have not watched porn since the last time I tried to do so with him back when we were dating. And I've never once been into trashy romance novels or movies. Let alone ones based on fan fictions that are written about terrible plot lined sparkly vampires....
> 
> However, if I did, and he approached me in the same manor I did to him we'd talk about it and I'd do my best to try and make our relationship work. If I told him I would do something about it I would work damn hard at doing what I said I would.


Why don't you approach him on it?

(Ugh, sparkly vampires, don't get me started. On your side with that one.)


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Personally, I find the objectification and treatment of women in porn quite objectionable, and am quite saddened how so many people want to say "oh it is just sex".

There is nothing shameful about sex, but there is something shameful about treating women like pieces of meat. And quite troubling to do it for hours and hours in a day.

This is not, to my mind, trying to "control someone else's thoughts", nor is it simple insecurity that you (or anyone) should just "suck up" because there is always a more beautiful woman to outshine you (one). 

It is an observation about what a person's attitudes are, a recognition of how they view women. And if you can't respect someone, it is very difficult to accept them.

I'm also not really a fan of the "just hide it better" advice. My SO too wants me to just pretend he doesn't watch it, but the reality is that I know he does, I know he finds these women more attractive than me, and I know that ultimately the onus is on me to live up to those standards or accept my secondary status. 

The only reason I don't leave him for it is that I have learned from TAM that the odds of finding a man who doesn't watch porn and defend it to the death -or simply pretend it isn't happening--are pretty small. And most women defend it now too. 

Porn 1,000,000: always_alone 0.

You have my sympathy, OP.


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## Gemi (Jun 15, 2016)

marduk said:


> Why don't you approach him on it?
> 
> (Ugh, sparkly vampires, don't get me started. On your side with that one.)


LOL I did. That's what this whole thing started as. I told him what I had found and how I felt that first time. He had made the promises to slow down with it and when that did happen he had then promised to quit. And well here we are because clearly it's still an issue in our life. I've never hidden my feelings on anything with him especially concerning this. I've offered my support. I've tried so much in trying to be done with this but it's become a surfaced issue again our life. We've had so many discussions over the years on this since it was first brought to my attention. And yes I mean civil talks. I will admit during some of those tears have been shed especially when discussing feelings but there was no anger or hostility. It was just emotional response to what was being talked on.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

always_alone said:


> Personally, I find the objectification and treatment of women in porn quite objectionable, and am quite saddened how so many people want to say "oh it is just sex".


That wasn't her objection. And our favorite porn is generally created by women with women as part of the target demographic.



> There is nothing shameful about sex, but there is something shameful about treating women like pieces of meat. And quite troubling to do it for hours and hours in a day.


That's quite a leap of logic, isn't it? Just because you think it's shameful doesn't mean those do.

Right now there's quite the 'take back of porn by and for women' movement happening. And from what I hear, it's quite empowering and liberating.



> This is not, to my mind, trying to "control someone else's thoughts", nor is it simple insecurity that you (or anyone) should just "suck up" because there is always a more beautiful woman to outshine you (one).


Ever look at the cover of a harlequin romance?



> It is an observation about what a person's attitudes are, a recognition of how they view women. And if you can't respect someone, it is very difficult to accept them.


I remember reading an article in Psychology Today I think demonstrating that those into BDSM porn were actually more feminist and respectful of women on average than the norm. Wish I could find it, but if I googled that right now I'd probably get fired 



> I'm also not really a fan of the "just hide it better" advice. My SO too wants me to just pretend he doesn't watch it, but the reality is that I know he does, I know he finds these women more attractive than me, and I know that ultimately the onus is on me to live up to those standards or accept my secondary status.


What if he finds them attractive to him in fantasy and you in reality?

I knew quite a few girls with rape fantasies. Doesn't mean that they wanted to be raped.



> The only reason I don't leave him for it is that I have learned from TAM that the odds of finding a man who doesn't watch porn and defend it to the death -or simply pretend it isn't happening--are pretty small. And most women defend it now too.
> 
> Porn 1,000,000: always_alone 0.
> 
> You have my sympathy, OP.


Sigh. 

You're a lot more than that, A_A.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Gemi said:


> LOL I did. That's what this whole thing started as. I told him what I had found and how I felt that first time. He had made the promises to slow down with it and when that did happen he had then promised to quit. And well here we are because clearly it's still an issue in our life. I've never hidden my feelings on anything with him especially concerning this. I've offered my support. I've tried so much in trying to be done with this but it's become a surfaced issue again our life. We've had so many discussions over the years on this since it was first brought to my attention. And yes I mean civil talks. I will admit during some of those tears have been shed especially when discussing feelings but there was no anger or hostility. It was just emotional response to what was being talked on.


When in bed, open his computer, and ask him to show you what turns him on, and why.

And try to be open and not judge. You might learn a lot about your husband this way.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Watch porn together and get over it.
> 
> How would you react if your husband waltzed into the room and demand you stop reading 50 shades of grey or whatever passes for mommy porn these days?
> 
> "Listen wife, I know our relationship is great and you have great sex with me. But you reading those words really make me insecure, so stop it!"


This assumes she's into "mommy porn". Believe it or not lots of women aren't.....I tried 50 shades of grey and thought it was ridiculous. I couldn't get into it, just as I've never been able to get into any kind of literotica. It's a bit presumptuous to assume she's into it without reason to believe she is.

But the greater issue here is that porn is so important to him that he lies to his wife's face knowing how she feels about it, and isn't man enough to just sit her down and tell her that he watches porn and they can discuss it's meaning.

I don't care what her reaction is, it doesn't excuse him from acting like a spoiled kid. If you're man enough to do it you should be man enough to own it and discuss like an adult.

I myself have a lot of mixed feelings about porn; I actually don't have a big issue with it in moderation but at the same time I think it's a slippery slope that is more damaging to relationships then people either realize or admit.

While I can appreciate Anon's comparisons to things like SI swimsuit or Game of Thrones, I think those are applies to oranges. With SI or game of thrones there is a limit to what you get, and it's unreasonable to think your spouse will never, ever look at another pair of t!ts.

But once you start with internet porn there is no end to where you can end up, and there are studies that show it has negative effects on the brain. And it sounds like he's looking at it a lot while lying to her.....that's not good.

I'm surprised they still have that great of a sex life because frankly if my hb actively lied to my face and wasn't man enough to look me in the face and say "yes I look at it. Let's discuss it, but I think it's unreasonable that you demand I not look at all" I would find him very unattractive. Not because he looked at porn but because he wasn't man enough to look me in the face, admit it, and discuss it while being clear about what he was and wasn't going to do.

Kids lie and hide; adults own their decisions. And if she's going to leave him over porn? Well that's a decision he should own if he feels that strongly about it, not lie like a pathetic little kid.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> This assumes she's into "mommy porn". Believe it or not lots of women aren't.....I tried 50 shades of grey and though it was ridiculous. I couldn't get into it, just as I've never been able to get into any kind of literotica. It's a bit presumptuous to assume she's into it without reason to believe she is.


Ok, fair enough criticism.



> But the greater issue here is that porn is so important to him that he *lies to his wife's face* knowing how she feels about it, yet isn't man enough to just sit her down and tell her that he watches porn and they can discuss it's meaning.


Exactly.

Now, the question is, is he lying to her because he prefers porn to her?

No, they're having good sex and he's into it.

That pretty much leaves lying out of shame, doesn't it?

Shame and good sex don't go together very well.



> I don't care what her reaction is, it doesn't excuse him from acting like a spoiled kid. If you're man enough to do it you should be man enough to own it and discuss like an adult.


100% agree and that's what I would tell him if he were here. But he's not.



> I myself have a lot of mixed feelings about porn; I actually don't have a big issue with it in moderation but at the same time I think it's a slippery slope that is more damaging to relationships then people either realize or admit.


K. I think that' s a balanced approach.



> While I can appreciate Anon's comparisons to things like SI swimsuit or Game of Thrones, I think those are applies to oranges. With SI or game of thrones there is a limit to what you get, and it's unreasonable to think your spouse will never, ever look at another pair of t!ts.
> 
> But once you start with internet porn there is no end to where you can end up, and there are studies that show it has negative effects on the brain. And it sounds like he's looking at it a lot while lying to her.....that's not good.


No, it's not good. Open up the lines of communication. Figure out what's driving what seems to be a pretty good guy otherwise.

Is it 3-some fantasies? Lingerie? Women who are sexually aggressive? Submissive? Something else? All of the above?



> I'm surprised they still have that great of a sex life because frankly if my hb actively lied to my face and wasn't man enough to look me in the face and say "yes I look at it. Let's discuss it, but I think it's unreasonable that you demand I not look at all" I would find him very unattractive. Not because he looked at porn but because he wasn't man enough to look me in the face, admit it, and discuss it while being clear about what he was and wasn't going to do.
> 
> Kids lie and hide; adults own their decisions.


My wife couldn't admit to looking at porn and liking it until we were in bed together and I was getting her off with it going.

She wasn't the first woman I've had be like this. I'm pretty sure up to that point she hid her predelictions and habits. Now she doesn't. And that's good, right?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

So, you married a guy who you knew had a porn problem. And now you wish he were different. The problem here is that you hoped he would change for you, and when he didn't...you became upset.

If he is addicted to porn, that is a problem, even if you weren't in the picture. Addictions are always bad for people, they are not healthy. But, you knew he had this problem before you married him. Your husband showed you who he was back then, and you accepted it. He begged, pleaded, etc...and you married him, believing he would change.

Now that you're both married, if he is incapable of giving up the porn, and you can't live with it, you should think about leaving him. That's the only choice I see. I don't blame you for being upset, but let this be a lesson...when a person displays who he/she is the FIRST time, believe them.

The internet didn't 'ruin' your relationship, you chose to marry someone who had a pre-existing porn problem.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

marduk said:


> That's quite a leap of logic, isn't it? Just because you think it's shameful doesn't mean those do.


Point being that all of this argument about how you can't control someone else's thoughts also applies to those who are objecting to porn.

You can defend all you want that porn is this or that. Whatever you like, and I can't control your thoughts. But nor can you change my observations about it either.

And yes, I know, women have been working very hard to reclaim porn and the gaming industry, and lots of areas where there is entrenched and overt objectification, and I happily send my kudos to them for that.

Still doesn't change the fact that I am not empowered at all. Quite the reverse, in fact. And shoving porn down my throat isn't going to give me that empowerment, no matter how much you tell me Dommes are feminist. 

(I know some Dommes, BTW, and the reality is that they view most of their clients with a pretty serious lack of respect. But not surprisingly at all, reversing the lack of respect does not make me feel one whit better about any of it.)


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

always_alone said:


> Point being that all of this argument about how you can't control someone else's thoughts also applies to those who are objecting to porn.


I could envision a situation where one person detests porn and one person loves it and they both respect each other's rights about it without shame or insecurity. Couldn't that happen?



> You can defend all you want that porn is this or that. Whatever you like, and I can't control your thoughts. But nor can you change my observations about it either.


Not liking it on philosophical or harm grounds is entirely your right and I'll respect it.

Not liking it because it makes you insecure makes me sad.



> And yes, I know, women have been working very hard to reclaim porn and the gaming industry, and lots of areas where there is entrenched and overt objectification, and I happily send my kudos to them for that.
> 
> Still doesn't change the fact that I am not empowered at all. Quite the reverse, in fact. And shoving porn down my throat isn't going to give me that empowerment, no matter how much you tell me Dommes are feminist.
> 
> (I know some Dommes, BTW, and the reality is that they view most of their clients with a pretty serious lack of respect. But not surprisingly at all, reversing the lack of respect does not make me feel one whit better about any of it.)


Interesting. I know one that specifically is one because she wanted to 'take back her power' as a woman and feminist. 

Just be happy, A_A.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

marduk said:


> I could envision a situation where one person detests porn and one person loves it and they both respect each other's rights about it without shame or insecurity. Couldn't that happen?
> 
> .


In theory, maybe. But it affects how I see my SO, my attraction to him dwindles, my interest in sharing myself or my sexual fantasies disappears, my interest in pleasing him sexually is gone. I haven't much interest in his fantasies either, now that I know I am not actually ever part of them. 

I no longer much desire him, or care one way or the other is he is sexually satisfied. I figured he has it covered and doesn't need me. So, you know, I just do what I want and if the distance grows, so be it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

always_alone said:


> In theory, maybe. But it affects how I see my SO, my attraction to him dwindles, my interest in sharing myself or my sexual fantasies disappears, my interest in pleasing him sexually is gone. I haven't much interest in his fantasies either, now that I know I am not actually ever part of them.
> 
> I no longer much desire him, or care one way or the other is he is sexually satisfied. I figured he has it covered and doesn't need me. So, you know, I just do what I want and if the distance grows, so be it.


I can live with that position. Staying attracted isn't a guarantee.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Ok, fair enough criticism.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely that is good. Adults own their decisions and it's good she's acting like one.

Does OP's husband lie out of shame or simply because he knows it upsets her and doesn't want to fight about it? Or he knows it bothers her but REALLY doesn't want to give any of it up, so he simply avoids the subject and does what he wants?

Negotiating with her might even mean he agrees to view it less and he doesn't want that, so doing what he wants and lying is the easiest approach for him. It requires no sacrifice at all from him, and marriage is about balance and some sacrifice to make your spouse happy. 

Either way it doesn't matter because that's not the the approach of a leader, which we all know most women appreciate.

I would certainly start with telling him that continuing to lie about it is a deal breaker. They should be able to discuss this like adults.

And she may have to come to terms with the fact that asking him to never, ever look at it is unreasonable. But it's still troubling that he can't even stop for a little while if it really bothers her. That says he either has an addiction or is not that concerned with how she feels about it. If she's the tech guru and he's not then he has to know she's going to find out. He can't be that stupid.

And frankly if I was her I'd get into some really big d!ck porn and let him see it. If that doesn't bother him then that tells me that he probably doesn't much compare her to porn anyway. We all know that people tend to project.

If your wife came to you and told you that you watching porn really bothered her, what would be your response? Would you lie and do it anyway? Or would you discuss and agree to what you were really willing to do?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Telling a person who is most definitely against porn to just watch it already is a really lazy response. It reveals that because you think it's ok then everyone should think it's ok. 

Some people still think watching other people having sex is just plain wrong. There wouldn't be laws on the books for the peeping toms if it was so hunky dory. Just because it's on the computer instead of your neighbor's window doesn't make some people feel it is natural. It has nothing to do with being sexually repressed or the favorite accusation "prude". It has to do with feeling that intimacy is private. 

This is a subject where there will never be agreement between pro-porn and anti-porn. Calling each other names and trying to convince them your side is the right side is not helpful. How about live and let live?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> Absolutely that is good. Adults own their decisions and it's good she's acting like one.
> 
> Does OP's husband lie out of shame or simply because he knows it upsets her and doesn't want to fight about it? Or he knows it bothers her but REALLY doesn't want to give any of it up, so he simply avoids the subject and does what he wants?
> 
> ...


Right. But again, he's not here. She is. 

And it comes with a massive caveat that it takes two to be open to sexual stuff. One to be bold enough to share, and one to be non-judgemental enough to actually receive it.

Nothing kills desire and fantasy like shame.



> And she may have to come to terms with the fact that asking him to never, ever look at it is unreasonable. But it's still troubling that he can't even stop for a little while if it really bothers her. That says he either has an addiction or is not that concerned with how she feels about it. If she's the tech guru and he's not then he has to know she's going to find out. He can't be that stupid.


Sure.



> And frankly if I was her I'd get into some really big d!ck porn and let him see it. If that doesn't bother him then that tells me that he probably doesn't much compare her to porn anyway. We all know that people tend to project.


And I'd by the popcorn and ask to watch her watching the big **** porn.

Maybe with a giant dildo handy. Just for, you know, Cosplay.



> If your wife came to you and told you that you watching porn really bothered her, what would be your response? Would you lie and do it anyway? Or would you discuss and agree to what you were really willing to do?


She did. In the beginning, when we were dating. Because she had been cheated on quite badly. I had, too, so I gave her space about it.

And then she came into my condo and started throwing **** out and trying to shame me and telling me what I could look at and not, and I told her that's her problem, not mine.

What I did tell her, and what we brought back during our sexual revolution a few years ago, is 100% commitment to be honest and open about it. And we do that.

And now quite frankly she's far more into porn than I am. And it's far more fun to watch porn with a partner than it is alone. So that's what I do.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Right. But again, he's not here. She is.
> 
> And it comes with a massive caveat that it takes two to be open to sexual stuff. One to be bold enough to share, and one to be non-judgemental enough to actually receive it.
> 
> ...


See that's what adults do. Be honest and let the other person decide if they want to live with it, but you can never be accused of being dishonest.

That honesty could be part of what brought your wife around. That and her feeling like you're 10% into her, because nothing will kill desire more than thinking your partner would rather be with someone else.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> See that's what adults do. Be honest and let the other person decide if they want to live with it, but you can never be accused of being dishonest.
> 
> That honesty could be part of what brought your wife around. That and her feeling like you're 10% into her, because nothing will kill desire more than thinking your partner would rather be with someone else.


Well, I'm sure it helped. 

But always wanting to have sex with her helped, too. 

Plus finding a selection of really good porn, giving her the remote, and going to town on her. And not judging what she ended up admitting she really liked. But never wanted to have happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

always_alone said:


> In theory, maybe. But it affects how I see my SO, my attraction to him dwindles, my interest in sharing myself or my sexual fantasies disappears, my interest in pleasing him sexually is gone. I haven't much interest in his fantasies either, now that I know I am not actually ever part of them.
> 
> I no longer much desire him, or care one way or the other is he is sexually satisfied. I figured he has it covered and doesn't need me. So, you know, I just do what I want and if the distance grows, so be it.


Does it feel like he is cheating on you, aa?

I have heard porn addiction described that way.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> See that's what adults do. Be honest and let the other person decide if they want to live with it, but you can never be accused of being dishonest.
> 
> That honesty could be part of what brought your wife around.* That and her feeling like you're 10% into her*, because nothing will kill desire more than thinking your partner would rather be with someone else.


LOL I think you mean 100%. If he were 10% into her, he'd be sleeping in the dog house.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Good god do you go off like this at every conflict? No wonder your husband sneaks around rather than try to discuss it with you!


I prefer to number my points and attempt to be concise.

1. Every woman I know in real life has body image issues, including myself.
2. Just because some one looks hotter doesn't mean they actually are hotter. Self worth is a hell of a lot deeper than t!ta and ass.
3. You have complete control over your body image. If you don't want to feel threatened by so,some hotter, look further than skin deep.
4. Your husband isn't watching porn and wishing his wife was that hot. Because...is your husband as hung and ripped as the male porn stars? Doubt it! 
5. Explore eroticism and expand your horizons rather than force your husband to conform to your insecurity based demands.
6. Sexual shame hits men as hard as it hits women. You tried to shame your husband into swearing off porn based on your unfounded insecurity. He is an adult and adults get to make their own decisions about their own sexuality.
7 you totally missed my point. I was hot 23 years ago. But now my appeal is for a more discriminating demographic. Aging has a way of clearing out the stupid stuff that we shouldn't be worried about and attempting to decide if my husband is " having a relationship" with his right hand and a dvd of porn... Lady that's the craziest damn thing I've ever heard.



Gemi said:


> You are correct about my feeling threatened. I believe I made that clear in my too long for you to fully read post. I had even said that he was viewing woman that I could never dream to compare to. And YES that was part of the issue. Because of the fact that he was viewing the women in positions we ourselves had been in. Obviously there is a HUGE deal over him watching porn in my mind or I wouldn't be on the internet exposing myself to the possibility of hostile responses to my situation.
> 
> Let me go through *EACH *of your questions in detail so that you may possibly better understand my thoughts.
> 
> ...


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I think the issue here isn't porn, it's the quantity, his addiction, and the lies surrounding it. For you, OP, it seems like his porn addiction - and yes, HOURS at a time, is an addiction - is most upsetting because it involves not being honest and open about his behavior. Sure, for you, his watching porn in general brings up significant self-esteem issues. But you could maybe have dealt with those with therapy if he wasn't:

a. seriously addicted rather than just watching porn, like your average joe
b. lying about changing his viewing habits repeatedly, then promising he'll change.
c. hiding his behavior

Frankly, it does sound like he needs help with his addiction whether you decide to stay together or not. He's by no means alone on this. 

But for you? You need to stop threatening divorce or breaking up constantly, and pick. Either commit to saving the marriage, and lay out your boundaries for that to move forward (e.g. he sees a professional about his porn addiction, you start MC together and give it 6 months to see if any real changes have been made, then reassess) OR, if you're not committing to the marriage, do the 180 and choose separation. This flip-flopping in the past has served no purpose because he keeps saying he'll change and he hasn't. He has proven his word can't be trusted, at least as far as his addiction is concerned. You can't control him. The only thing you CAN control is your responses.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> .
> 4. Your husband isn't watching porn and wishing his wife was that hot. Because...is your husband as hung and ripped as the male porn stars? Doubt it!


This! 

If any gender should feel like they can't match up with porn stars, it's the guys.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> This!
> 
> If any gender should feel like they can't match up with porn stars, it's the guys.


Hee hee, that's also one of my tricks I use to mentally battle body image problems. I think..."look at him for crying out loud! What have I got to be ashamed of?" It's moments like that when I really appreciate the beer belly he's been working on for so long.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Gemi said:


> And you are 100% sex is not shameful. However, when you are with someone and you are deeply committed or married then "your choices as an adult" have an effect on *BOTH *of you. By saying "I do" you have chosen to make those decisions together so that you both may GROW TOGETHER. Especially where sex is concerned. It is an act of intimacy that takes consent. Now had you paid attention to what you decided to read of my original post, I had stated that when this first came up I was upset and told him as much. I did not demand or push a view onto him. I expressed my feelings. *HE *was the one to promise that it would become less constant in his daily life. When he *LIED *about that I clearly became *HURT*. I understand addiction. I wanted to help him. but *HE *chose a rout of lie and deceit on it. Yes *EVENTUALLY* after being lied to over and over, being given false promises *made by HIM* and not asked of by me, I put the demand of "choose" because AGAIN I do not think a SO should ever have to be made to feel second best, which is what his behavior was and is doing to me.
> 
> 
> Now then. I hope that so long as you bothered to read to the end you understand my beliefs slightly better. If you don't I will be more than happy to explain in further detail anything you like. As I said, since I placed myself here pleading for help, I have opened myself for hostile responses and I'm fully capable of handling those.


 @Anon Pink again I am going to side with @Gemi here and say *he needs to STOP doing something that is hurting his wife!* Porn aside, *lying is NOT OK!* 



marduk said:


> *Watch porn together and get over it.*
> 
> How would you react if your husband waltzed into the room and demand you stop reading 50 shades of grey or whatever passes for mommy porn these days?
> 
> "Listen wife, I know our relationship is great and you have great sex with me. But you reading those words really make me insecure, so stop it!"


I also agree with @marduk here, but I am going to explain it a different way. My brother grew up getting drunk all the time at parties when he was a teenager. My parents forbid him to continue doing this. He was allowed to get drink and get drunk anytime he wanted, but he was required to do so at home under his parent's supervision. For some odd reason this made beer rather unappealing to my brother and he no longer drinks to this day as he claims beer just gives him a headache. 

You'll notice in the example above my brother was _never_ prevented from drinking or getting drunk. 

While you probably do NOT want to watch porn with your husband, you should ask him to sit down with you and show you what he searches for and why (without actually watching it). If he can not do this with you, then HE is the one with a serious problem that is likely associated with shame and vulnerability that the two of you need to work on to overcome. *In my opinion you are reacting to your husband's dishonesty that is the result of shame. Instead of teaching him to be vulnerable with you, it actually will make things much worse to just forbid porn regardless of if this was his idea or yours.*

Hope that helps!

Badsanta


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@badsanta,

I agree he needs to stop lying about his porn use. She needs to stop shaming him and treating him like a naughty boy for watching porn.

Boys/men are every it as susceptible to sexual shame as women are. She shamed him for watching porn when she first found it. They were both young and inexperienced, but it would have been best if he had told her that watching porn was not something he would stop and then they both could grow in better understanding each other and themselves.

But he loved her and wanted to be with her, and he felt the shame she threw at him, so he took his porn viewing underground and lied and continued to lie because he never grew a pair of balls to own his sexuality and his right to view porn without shame. As long as he is able to give his wife all the sexual energy she could possibly desire and his porn viewing never interfered with that, he has every right to watch whatever he wants to watch.

This is the same nonsense as the husband who threatened divorce if his wife didn't stop masturbating.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

*Re: The Internet ruined &quot;us&quot;*

The underlying issues are:-

1. His addiction to porn. 
Watching it every day for over 30 minutes or more is a problem. 

2. Your insecurity & feeling inadequate, less attractive, jealousy of the women on the sites. 

3. Your negative "nagging" & confrontational anger towards the issue. 

My husband watched porn once a week, it was affecting our sex life. 
I had a easy going conversation with him, instead of just getting angry about it. If I had of gotten angry he would not have understood my point of view. 
I asked him nicely if he could cut back to about once a month, he agreed & I improved our sex life. 
Now he hardly watches it! Maybe every 2/3 months but I accept that. 

Your insecurity is something YOU need to work on. 
Having the confidence not to be worried about being compared to other women. 
I suggest IC (independent counseling) for that. 

He needs to admit why he watches it all the time. 
Addications usually are masking some other emotional issues. 
Try figure out what they are & what he is missing/lacking. 

Being angry/aggressive towards him will only drive him away further & trying to trap him in his lies will emasculate him, sending him right back to the porn. 

He needs to know he can trust you & be vulnerable with you. 
If he says he likes something in the porn (threesome or BJs) try not to judge him or label him disgusting. 

You can get a lot of information with spouses if there are comfortable enough with you. The key is empathy & understanding. 

Good Luck. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

OP - If you are still with us...a good way of looking at your situation is that your husband has a healthy sexual appetite and you have great sex as a result. I wonder if his porn use contributes towards this. Many men use porn as a sexual aid...it could help with PE, or has give him confidence or inspiration to experiment and try different things with you. It could be that when he looks at other women he is replacing the image with yourself and has an urge to have sex with you. If we don't talk about these things with our partners then we can only assume and often our assumptions lean towards the negative and insecure. 

There are many women who come to TAM whose partners slowly retreat from the marriage bed and that is far more complicated to dissect and get to the root of the problem. I would turn the situation on its head and see it as an advantage that your husband is very sexual and comes to you with those sexual urges. Knowing the kind of porn your husband likes to watch could be an opportunity to use this to your advantage and experiment with role play or aural stimulation. There is nothing more sexy than being aware of our partners sexuality. By learning and accepting his sexual needs and incorporating his fantasies into your sex life you may be pleasantly surprised that porn quickly becomes lame in comparison. And whilst you are at it...you should talk a lot about your own sexual needs and fantasies to your husband.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Well, I keep reading the topic in this thread and scratching my head. The internet did not ruin "us". The porn watching did. Remove the internet access removes the porn watching. Many people do survive without the internet. Many put blocks on specific sites. Seems to me the internet should have been removed if is a source to an addiction. If you H needs a phone...there are good old flip phones that text and call in/out without internet access.


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## TexasAggie_01 (Jun 17, 2016)

Gemi, 

I have been a long-time lurker on this site for at least the last 8 mos. or so, but have never felt compelled to create an account until I read your post. My sincerest apologies that you're having to endure these challenges with your husband.

Here are some random thoughts I wanted to share with you. Hopefully they help in some form or fashion:

First off, no, not every man looks at porn. Yes, I have seen porn before, but I stay away from it like the plague. My father always told me growing up that pornography will rot your brain, and for many people, it will and does. This idea that all men look at porn, and that it is somehow innocuous is fallacious, and largely subscribed to by men who like porn and the women who enable them (or like to view it themselves). 

Secondly, take a gander over at the addictions forum and take notice of the posts in that forum. How many of them deal with pornography? I'd argue at least a third deals with addiction and the consequent turmoil resulting from viewing it. So many marriages destroyed. So much respect lost.

If his viewing of porn bothers you, and he's no doubt aware of that, then one would have to ask why does he have such little regard for your feelings? He understands that this destroys you. If he won't love you, then love yourself and draw a line. Consequences have to have teeth, otherwise it will not influence behavior. Your consequences thus far have been toothless; hence, he has not changed.

Marriage is difficult enough as it is. We only make it more difficult when we allow pornography into the home. Why do I say that? Because breasts fall and become less firm with age. Same thing happens to men. Women have children and sometimes that wreaks havoc on the body. My wife went from a smallish c-cup to a non-existent a-cup after breast feeding my three girls. Shall I start to compare my wife with the young, nubile porn actresses and hope that I can still remain attracted to her? Perhaps, but it's not a risk I'm willing to take, particularly when I owe it to my daughters and my wife to be better than that.

Don't doubt yourself. You're not asking for the world here. You're simply demanding that your husband be devoted to you, and that he respect your feelings. That is not a lot to ask, and don't let anyone tell you differently.

I've been married 18 years, happily, and I peruse this site primarily because it helps me to avoid some of the pitfalls that have destroyed so many marriages. While we may still be "young" in our marriage, we've learned a little something over these 18 years and one of those lessons is to not make marriage more difficult than it needs to be.

Expect better. Demand better. You deserve it, and so does your child.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

It sounds like the problem is watching women who you feel are better than you. I don't know if you described your figure or what you feel makes them better than you, but what if he were one of those people who had a fetish for obese women? Would you still feel insecure if he were masturbating to women you don't think are attractive?

Even if he stopped looking at porn today forever, there will still be women on earth who are more attractive than you. Odds are he will still find them attractive with or without porn. There is nothing any of us can do about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Food for thought:

Somebody's Daughter DVD

_"I was looking at pornography everyday and it was slowly destroying my marriage. I was on the verge of losing everything. One day my two teenage sons sat me down and said. "Dad, we got this DVD and we want you to watch it with us. It was Somebody's Daughter documentary. I had no idea that they realized how bad my problem was.

As I sat there and watched with them the dam just broke. Here were my sons protecting their mom and confronting me with the truth. Somebody's Daughter gave them a way to get my attention...and it certainly did. Watching that documentary is what made me realize I was not alone and needed to get help.

I did and am happy to share that my marriage is in the best shape it has been in in years. I am not looking at pornography anymore."_


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

A couple things.

1. Is there any chance you could watch porn together. My dear wife and I love to watch porn together! Its super fun. I'm generous though I love to indulge her fantasies as I love to see her horny. She is a bit jealous so I just let the fantasies be about her.....since I get off on watching her horny, it works pretty well.

2. PLEASE PLEASE understand its highly unlikely that he is comparing YOU to the women in porn. For me (a man) porn is about watching sex and sexuality and getting horny. Its not about comparing my wife to women in porn. In fact, I love to indulge my dear wife with fantasies of men with x and y traits, but I know she loves me. Its all in good fun for both of us.

Can you relax a bit and see the difference between entertainment and reality?

I apologize if this is a real addiction, thats a problem. My wife and I are not porn addicted. We go through long periods without porn, but we also enjoy our porn together too! Depends upon our moods, kinds like drinking good wine.

FYI, I used to watch porn and it was depressing and sad (when I was married to wife #1 who wasn't interested in porn or sex that much) but Im in no way addicted. But its FUN...I tend to NOT watch alone since Ive been with wife #2.

Im sorry if your husband is porn addicted, but perhaps, just perhaps, you need to relax a bit?





Gemi said:


> This will be a long post so please bare with me.
> 
> My husband and I are 33 and have a 4 year old child together. Some back story on us:
> 
> ...


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Give me a break! Are you a Jesus freak too?

Porn is naked people having sex. So what?????

Its only what YOU make of it.

relax!




TexasAggie_01 said:


> Gemi,
> 
> I have been a long-time lurker on this site for at least the last 8 mos. or so, but have never felt compelled to create an account until I read your post. My sincerest apologies that you're having to endure these challenges with your husband.
> 
> ...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: The Internet ruined &quot;us&quot;*



fetishwife said:


> Give me a break! Are you a Jesus freak too?
> 
> Porn is naked people having sex. So what?????
> 
> ...


Posters should be welcome to both have personal boundaries, and discuss said boundaries, without being called a "Jesus freak".

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

*Re: The Internet ruined &quot;us&quot;*



farsidejunky said:


> Posters should be welcome to both have personal boundaries, and discuss said boundaries, without being called a "Jesus freak".
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


It's hard to have a rational discussion about porn with some. They are so invested in it and so afraid that their God given right to it is threatened that they freak out at the very thought that it might not be a good idea. 

I feel bad for people who can't discuss things without getting crazy and name calling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> fetishwife said:
> 
> 
> > Give me a break! Are you a Jesus freak too?
> ...


Thank you for this post, farside. 

I'm an atheist, am faaaaar from a prude, have a high sex drive, but I feel watching porn is a form of cheating when in a committed relationship.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Thank god you are an atheist and have a high sex drive.

If you feel its cheating then your significant other has a problem, since they do have to respect you.

Its possible that a porn "addicted" person and a porn averse person are incompatible and need to find other partners.

Trying to "cure" someone porn addiction may lead to bitter disappointment. 

I still maintain its like alcohol (without the liver damage) acceptable in moderation, dangerous when abused.

What constitutes abuse in either case? Its a tough line to draw.







Livvie said:


> Thank you for this post, farside.
> 
> I'm an atheist, am faaaaar from a prude, have a high sex drive, but I feel watching porn is a form of cheating when in a committed relationship.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

fetishwife said:


> Thank god you are an atheist and have a high sex drive.
> 
> If you feel its cheating then your significant other has a problem, since they do have to respect you.
> 
> ...


I guess I felt it was abusive AND like cheating when in two different relationships the men actually admitted to me: that instead of communicating and tackling areas of conflict in the relationship, they had porn as a substitute.... and knowing they had it to fall back on, they chose the lazy avoidance route. Didn't need ME for sex, they didn't need to work things out with ME, they had porn as an outlet. That feels like cheating to me. They each said if it weren't for porn they would have been more involved in working at the relationship.


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## 28down (Feb 26, 2013)

He lied, oh yeah, he lied. wait for it, he lied. THAT's the problem. and if he lies about this, guess what, he is probably lying about way worse things. Kick him to curb. It's not like a booger, not all men do it!


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

I'm sorry you are going through this, I have gone through this myself...it's terrible. It feels like your whole world falls apart. 

I have come to the conclusion that yes, men do have the right to watch porn, but woman do have the right to be not okay with it in their relationship. So if you are being up front and honest that porn is not something you want in your relationship he has two choices. 1. Stop looking at porn, or 2. Leave the marriage. At no time does lying and saying he has stopped become okay to save a marriage, nor can a wife tell a husband what he can do, but she can tell him what she will live with. I guess men have to decide what is more important porn or their wifes.


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## highvaluegal (Sep 6, 2016)

Gemi, you are fighting porn addiction. Yes, he is the one addicted but you are his comrade in battling porn usage.

Crying, telling him you are hurt and then...trust him.. is not enough! This is addiction you are facing.


Don't give up or else the porn devils will laugh in your face. Many women feel cheated with porn usage, because IT IS cheating. Those porn stars are online prostitutes/strippers, and those digital bytes /pixels are actually pre-recorder sex. 

Using porn is like allowing wives to be escorts. We women get emotional and validation needs from other men and in return we give these men attention and naked videos. When husbands feel betrayed, we say those aren't real. We are married to you, didnt we?

Anyway,
My husband broke my heart thrice due to porn. 

This is my plan and you, gemi, should have one too. Game on!

1) Be hot and be sweet most of the time. Admire him, appreciate him and give in to his love language. Bcause this is your leverage. These are your cards to deal this issue.

2) Clear his ball often. Don't let porn substitute you. Iniciate more. Don't give him opportunities to be alone with your competitor. 

If you have done the above, then

3) Withdraw these gradually or drastically when he treats you like ****. No more hotness nor sweetness nor love. 

Based on marriedmansexlife author and online dating coach, you should only give when he deserves it. 

What does it say to him if you give all even when he gives sh*ts to you?

Which woman would have sex with an untrustworthy man? doormats and ****s. 

4) He needs to win back your trust and love. Don't be cheap. Cheap things are NOT valued.

if my husband did it again, he would have to win back my trust and love. How? By my standards, which are: 1)read on porn addiction and on men who stop porn usage, 2) he should come up with a strategy to stop porn permanently, and 3) no internet at home for at least three months.

That's my standard to win my love back What are yours? No more crying no more trusting. He must win back you.


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