# Follow-up from my thread a couple of years ago for anyone in my position



## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Hi All,

For some reason I feel the need to follow-up on a thread I created a couple of years ago that got a lot of feedback. Maybe it'll help someone out there. Here is the old thread if you want to catch up: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...arriage-24-years-old-married-barely-year.html. 

I'm 27 now and not much has changed as far as our sex life. As far as the rest of our lives goes, we've both finished school. She has her BSN, and I have a Ph.D. in wildlife conservation. I never mentioned that we have a son. Actually, he is my stepson. His father died when he was one, and I met him when he was two. Thus, I'm dad. We also decided to adopt a 3-year-old girl that my wife met about a year ago (more on this later). 

Back to the sex issues...She did finally go to the doctor about a year ago and found out she had PCOS. I was proud that she finally took the initiative to get help. She underwent a successful outpatient surgery to remove some abnormal cells, and took birth control pills for a while to regulate hormones. She stopped taking them not long ago because she didn't like the way they made her feel. I'm supportive, but the doctor never once told her that the issues were the one and only reason for her diminished sex drive. 

Anyways, nothing has or ever did change. Sex has continued at about a once a month or less basis, and I honestly think she could go without; oh, giving or receiving oral is out of the question. I've actually secretly kept track of dates, and although we are above the clinical sexless marriage threshold, we are still well, well below the average for our age. We've had serious talks, confided in close friends, read books, done the love language thing, read blogs, everything! Nothing works. It just isn't a priority for her, and she'll admit to that. She likes having me around, but wants me in bed to watch Criminal Minds every night. I think stress and body image are the biggest factors, but she will always be stressing over something because that's the way she is, and I don't think she'll ever like her body no matter what size she is. I've never met a woman that does (I'm joking but kind of serious ladies lol). I've stopped bringing it up. You could say I've given up. A man with self-respect only takes so much rejection. 

I still stay in great shape and pride myself on being the chivalrous/macho type man that seems exceedingly rare in today's society. I clean, cook, readily give massages, keep flowers for her in the house, always open her car door,etc, but not to the point of being a doormat. I do it because helping out is the right thing to do, and I learned to help out while growing up with a single mother. I converse with her daily in a meaningful way. I try to keep our lives adventurous with vacations, kayaks, mountain bikes, shopping, social events, whatever. Outside of sex our relationship is great, and she says I'm a perfect husband, but the lack of sex drives me insane and ruins my focus. In short, I've never stopped dating her and never plan on it. 

On a side note, I agreed to adopting the little girl because it did seem like the right thing to do, and she is a sweetheart. But, now my wife has firmly decided that two kids are enough despite me always wanting one of my own. Even her friends think she should be more open about the issue, but she is more shut down on this topic than on sex. Not sure why I put that out there. I guess because she slightly acts scared to death of getting pregnant and that affects sex. I'll keep additional details for a different post. 

I'll wrap this up by saying I just don't know. I'm not looking for more advice. I'm convinced that no amount of effort by one person will change the mindset of the other. I just want those of you in this situation to realize that your situation most likely won't change. I'll make it even simpler for you-leave or learn to live life without sex because begging is a turnoff for both parties. I won't leave. I really do love her for better or worse. I also love my stepson son and new daughter and would never walk out on them for anything.

*I emphasize 'my situation'. If you are a lazy or mean jack#!* or b&t*h that really only cares about sex and nothing else then you deserve what you get. Be a confident man or lady, get yourself to the gym, put on some practice good hygiene, and help out. Do this for yourself and because it is the right thing but don't do it for sex. 

I know this was blunt and depressing, but thank you for humoring me tonight. I wish the best for those of you in this situation and thank those of you who took the time to offer advice.

Best,
Jared


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## JWTBL (May 28, 2014)

Well this site allows for venting, and it sounds like that's what you needed to do. Your children are lucky to have you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There are a lot of people here on TAM, men and women, whose spouse shuts down the sex in the marriage almost completely or completely.

Was she this uninterested in sex when you were dating?


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> There are a lot of people here on TAM, men and women, whose spouse shuts down the sex in the marriage almost completely or completely.
> 
> Was she this uninterested in sex when you were dating?


Not at all. Twice a day was common, and that was while we were undergrads both working two jobs. She was also a single parent at this time, so I thought it couldn't get much worse stress-wise. It abruptly stopped after getting married. I don't expect it to be like it was in the beginning even though I'd be happy with twice a day because I'm still that attracted to her. I'd realistically settle for twice per week as a minimum. I don't think that is too much to ask for at our age.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

husband1987 said:


> Not at all. Twice a day was common, and that was while we were undergrads both working two jobs. She was also a single parent at this time, so I thought it couldn't get much worse stress-wise. It abruptly stopped after getting married. I don't expect it to be like it was in the beginning even though I'd be happy with twice a day because I'm still that attracted to her. I'd realistically settle for *twice per week as a minimum. I don't think that is too much to ask for* at our age.


What did she say exactly when you asked her to agree with sex twice per week?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

There many sexless marriage threads on TAM. John and BostonBruinFan both have explored the issue on their threads and others. There are women, such as AnonPink, who can explain female sexuality. Read neuklas's thread. Jld might coach you.

At the end of the day you accept not passing your genes on. You are content to raise the children of other men while your sexual desire is suppressed. At the subliminal level your wife has subjugated you to the needs of her selfish genes. Your adopted daughter is a guilt trip, one extra reason to accept the way things are. 

You write that you and your wife get along great. Really? You are in an crummy relationship. Stop being so nice to her. Do the 180 and get ready to face the world as a single dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## old red (Jul 26, 2014)

not a doormat? seriously? you get on great because you have very low standards. you sound like a good person who deserves so much better. get your wife off of that pedestal. think, too, about the example that you are setting for your adopted son. and think about the beautiful, giving women out there who would love a man like you, and would be willing to give you your own biological children. something to think about. think about your bitterness and resentment 10 - 20 years from now. how did you end up like this?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You've made your choice, and if you are at peace with that, more power to you. I would at least be asking for an open relationship in such a situation - on the other hand, I wouldn't stay in such a relationship.


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

Each to their own but i cant understand what binds you together, the no sex and in no way ever she will let you have your own child with her would be the end of it


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

tommyr said:


> What did she say exactly when you asked her to agree with sex twice per week?


Kind of balked at the idea and compared it to some friends of ours that have an agreement that if she has sex every other day then he won't bring up the subject. My friends wife hates the sex but he doesn't care. I'm not about pity sex. I'd rather go without.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

I don't think I do have low standards. I've been in relationships that were miserable but full of sex. I loved my wife long before we ever had sex. Sex was just more fulfilling because I loved her beforehand. 

I guess the kid thing hasn't reached a boiling point because I really don't want a baby right now either. I just know I'd like to down the road. I also don't know if she can have a baby based on what her doctor said about the severity of her PCOS. That revelation also put the idea out of my mind. Also, her pregnancy was bad from what I've been told by her and her parents. She was very young and suffered extreme depression throughout the pregnancy. She says she is scared to feel that way again. I feel this issue is bigger than a forum can solve. I think we should see a counselor and speak with her doctor before any rash decisions are made. And although I respect everyone's opinions, please don't give me a lecture on genes and raising another man's child. I've taken every evolution and animal behavior class under the sun. Additionally, I was raised by a man who wasn't my biological father and wouldn't be where I am today without him.

I'm not really sure why I'm venting because my mind is made up. I won't divorce her and open marriage disgusts me, no offense. Also, my situation isn't unique. I actually don't know any married guy that gets as much sex as he would like.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sorry you are going through this. I agree with you this won't change and sounds like it rarely ever does here. Just curious why leaving is off the table for you?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I know you didn't ask for advice, but you know you're gonna get some anyway! 

I'm a 58yo female and, if you were my son, I'd tell you to DIVORCE this woman and move on!

You say you're happy in your marriage, yet only because YOU put out all the effort to make HER happy: vacations, the kids SHE wants, everything on HER terms. You're not in a marriage, you're her DAD! You provide the things she wants and she takes and takes like a teenager. Emotionally, she IS a teenager!

A marriage is TWO people who are PARTNERS. Two people with common goals. Two people striving for the same (or reasonable compromise towards a) shared future; a future they BOTH want. I READ NONE OF THAT HERE.

You say you're not a doormat. There's more to being a doormat than handing your paycheck to your spouse and being forced to sleep on the couch.

If your wife asked you to cut your arm off, or your leg off...you'd think she was NUTS! But, she wants you to cut your penis off, and cut your feelings off, and cut your ability to share/connect/unite fully with your wife off...and, somehow, you're OKAY with this. You don't see this request as outrageous!

Life is VERY short! Very, very short! Take it from someone who is more than half-way to the grave: The years will fly by before you know it. In 30 years, you'll be my age. You'll have a grown son and daughter and NOTHING ELSE in your life! No love, no sharing, no passion, no NOTHING! 

You could, however, divorce this selfish unwilling-to-compromise woman. Thirty years from now, you'll still have a son and a daughter. You may very well have chosen a NEW love who has shared decades of passion, dreams, hopes, struggles, successes with you. Perhaps she will even have shared children with you.

Think about how bitter, unhappy, unfulfilled, resentful you will feel after 30 MORE YEARS of no love, no sex, no sharing, no nothing. It is soul-crushing!

There *ARE* worse things for a child than to have divorced parents. How about learning that marriage is one-sided? That one person gives continually (that will be your son's future relationships as well...he's learning from you two) and one person takes continually (that will be your daughter's future relationships as well). You're both "teaching" them that men give and give until it hurts with ZERO expectation of getting their needs met, and women take and take because that is what "marriage" is about.

If this is NOT the lesson you want these two children to learn, and this is NOT the life you think YOU deserve, then MOVE ON. Your wife has had plenty of opportunity to be a real LOVING PARTNER and she REFUSES. Her needs are being met, and she doesn't give a rip about yours!

What do you expect to get from remaining in a sexless, one-sided relationship? Extra stars in your crown after you're dead?

Best wishes to you in 2015. Please speak to a mental health professional about the reality of your relationship and see what s/he thinks of your emotional health at this point and the possibility of this relationship being healthy (for ANY of you) long-term.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> Sorry you are going through this. I agree with you this won't change and sounds like it rarely ever does here. Just curious why leaving is off the table for you?


I love her more than I can describe, and although I believe she has issues that may require counseling or hormone therapy, I believe that she truly loves me too. 

As far as continuing with doing things like housework and giving massages, she does those things for me. She goes out of her way to buy me special gifts, expresses words of affirmation, invites me to shower with her, provides massages, dresses up, etc; she just doesn't have a sex drive. I also don't believe in changing my personality to get her to have more sex. I rarely see or read about successful examples of that kind of thing. She is the only one who can change. My giving personality is just a part of me in all aspects of my life.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

No way she loves you. If she did, your needs would be a priority to her. You're deep in 'wishful thinking land'. 

In any case you've made your bed and you choose to continue to lie in it. That's on you. Selfishness like hers is a deep part of her personality and character. It will never change. You're never leaving so you need to work on acceptance. This is your lot in life. Happiness is for others, perhaps you'll have it in a future life.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> No way she loves you. If she did, your needs would be a priority to her. You're deep in 'wishful thinking land'.
> 
> In any case you've made your bed and you choose to continue to lie in it. That's on you. Selfishness like hers is a deep part of her personality and character. It will never change. You're never leaving so you need to work on acceptance. This is your lot in life. Happiness is for others, perhaps you'll have it in a future life.


I agree. If she really loved you she would be trying to figure out a way to meet your needs. 

As someone that just turned 50 years old, it's really sad to read your post. You are so young and you're just resigning yourself to a half life.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I have read about marriages like yours, where for medical reasons there may not be much or any sex at all. Clearly it would not be acceptable to most of us, but we are not you. If you are okay with it, then good enough.

When we love someone, we can be pretty sacrificial. You are very sacrificial, OP.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Jared, I'm glad you made this post. It is a helpful reminder for the future men who come to TAM with similar troubles (and for TAM members that advise them) that a man who keeps his side of the street as clean as any man can be expected to can still be manipulated into marriage with a sexual dud.

The oft repeated TAM mantra that "women like sex just as much as men, so if your wife doesn't enjoy sex with you it must be your fault" is nonsense in many cases.

Although I respect your Sophie's choice to remain in this marriage, I feel obligated to tell you that as an older man married to a beautiful, loving, sexual dud, I wish I had divorced years ago. As painful as it would have been long ago for both of us, it does not compare to the pain we will both experience soon.

It is never too late to do the right thing for both of you, but the longer you wait the more it hurts.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Husband1987, you sound like a really great and honorable guy and I salute you for that. Having said that, I really think you should rethink staying in this marriage; you're a young guy and I really think you're going to regret it down the road. I'm 40, and in my first marriage the sex sucked because he was selfish. If my marriage had otherwise been good I don't think I would've left over bad sex, but as it turned out my ex was a jerk in many other ways so that made the decision for me. But I remember my father, who I was very close to and talked to about many things, telling me that I was missing out. He said if I'd never had a real passionate love affair (he didn't mean literally an affair, he meant a really passionate relationship/marriage) that I would sorely regret it once I got older. As it turned out I ended up meeting my now husband and we had a wild sex life (still do after almost 10 years together), and I can see what he meant now. I really would've missed out and regretted not having this; if you were several decades older I might suggest you consider how you'd feel if you left a good marriage over sex and found out that sex wasn't forthcoming, but you're a young guy. In addition, if children is something you want don't give that up for anything; that's something else you will sorely regret. Fortunately for you as a man you have more good years to have kids....this relationship just sounds very one sided to me. Your wife already has 2 kids and she can find someone more in line with her goals; there are plenty of men that either have kids and don't want more or don't want them at all. She can find one of them, preferable one with no sex drive, and maybe such a guy will be snipped anyway and the fear of pregnancy thing will be gone. Please think long and hard about remaining in this marriage, you can see that those of us who are older are all telling you that you will regret it.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Coming up on the 20 year mark of marriage now - sometimes we make decisions when we are younger that we think we can live with. And then sometimes the weight of what we have missed out on because of that decision becomes too much. 

There are three choices in a sexually mismatched marriage. Accept, affair, divorce. The decision to accept may, later in life, expire. I think that is just a human reaction. You get into your 40s and wonder how many years of sex you have ahead of you and realize just how much you have missed out on. The 20's, the 30s, years people should be having lots of great sex with bodies that work and are attractive. 

Not to say, of course, that you have made the wrong decision. It's the decision most of us have made here. That doesn't mean it isn't going to hit points along the road where there is grief and anger and resentment too.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

husband1987 said:


> I'll wrap this up by saying I just don't know. I'm not looking for more advice. I'm convinced that no amount of effort by one person will change the mindset of the other.


Sage words, and a lesson we all seem to have to live to learn. As long as you're aware that this is your future with your wife, at least your decision will be accurately informed.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

If you truly want to father a child, You need to leave this user and look elsewhere. She not only doesn't "love" you, she doesn't even LIKE you.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)




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## Anuvia (Jul 10, 2013)

husband1987 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> For some reason I feel the need to follow-up on a thread I created a couple of years ago that got a lot of feedback. Maybe it'll help someone out there. Here is the old thread if you want to catch up: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...arriage-24-years-old-married-barely-year.html.
> 
> ...


There's no nice way to put this but you're screwed -- and not in the manner that you would like. Can you honestly imagine living the rest of your life like this. Dump her before you get in too deep. Your life is gonna suck real bad.

Start getting some attention and appreciation from other women and it's a guarantee that your wife will start putting out.


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## Anuvia (Jul 10, 2013)

husband1987 said:


> Not at all. Twice a day was common, and that was while we were undergrads both working two jobs. She was also a single parent at this time, so I thought it couldn't get much worse stress-wise. It abruptly stopped after getting married. I don't expect it to be like it was in the beginning even though I'd be happy with twice a day because I'm still that attracted to her. I'd realistically settle for twice per week as a minimum. I don't think that is too much to ask for at our age.


It's pretty obvious what your wife did. She was having sex with you enough to reel you in. She ran one of the oldest games on you like a sucker. You should be mad as hell.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

You say she loves you, but she won't sacrifice to make you happy.

She loves her children, too. Can/will she sacrifice to make THEM happy? Or will they, too, suffer greatly from her refusal to sacrifice as necessary for "love"? Something to think strongly about!


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I was hoping some of those who have been in sexless marriages would come through and share and you have. This young man needs to hear your voices. 

I am not even sure why he posted for sure but it appears to me to be a cry for help. 

You may be educated young man you there are many here who have "lived a little" who are giving you sage advice and know a great deal more than you do. They have already been you and know that eventually the adoration of your "loving and giving wife" will turn into resentment. 

Lucky you! You have a buddy for life! I am not a big proponent of Dr. Laura but she gets men completely. Get your wife a copy of her book "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" this holiday season and ask here to read her. It is common sense stuff your educated wife should get.

One of my favorite quotes from the good Dr. “If you are refusing and withholding sex you are breaking your marriage vows just as surely as if you were committing adultery.” Think about it.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

husband1987 said:


> I love her more than I can describe, and although I believe she has issues that may require counseling or hormone therapy, I believe that she truly loves me too.
> 
> As far as continuing with doing things like housework and giving massages, she does those things for me. She goes out of her way to buy me special gifts, expresses words of affirmation, invites me to shower with her, provides massages, dresses up, etc; she just doesn't have a sex drive. I also don't believe in changing my personality to get her to have more sex. I rarely see or read about successful examples of that kind of thing. She is the only one who can change. My giving personality is just a part of me in all aspects of my life.


You aren't asking for advice, but you're getting some anyway, and here's some more from another older dude (I'm late 30's).

My first wife, I felt exactly the same way you do about yours. With her no matter what, always on her side, accepting of her excuses for this or that (which also included mental and physical issues over the course of our marriage). No matter what she said or did, I loved her more than anything else in the world.

Like you, our sex life pre-marriage was hot and heavy and abundant. After marriage, not so much. I was lucky if it was twice a month, and even when it did happen, she was only doing it because she felt she had to. No passion, no interest, no participation. But I still loved her. Still held doors open for her, cooked and cleaned, the whole 9 yards.

She did not want kids at all. She did not like kids. I had a vasectomy. I felt I was going to be with her forever, and if she didn't want kids, neither did I. I'm now in my late 30's, and saddened beyond belief that I have no kids of my own. My wife has two, and I am a step-dad (which is a blast!), but I don't have children that share my DNA, and I regret VERY much my decision 15 years ago.

My first marriage broke up because of her. She left me. The why's and how's don't matter here, but I stuck with her through hell and high water, and she tossed me aside like I was nothing to her.

I re-married several years later, to my high school sweetheart, who treats me great, who has issues of her own, but who doesn't expect (or WANT) me to bear her burdens, and who doesn't live a life based around her needs and wants and desires.

My wife has very little interest in sex, just like yours. But here's the kicker: we actually have sex. Not as often as I'd like, but certainly more than the once a month (if that) that you're getting, and more than the twice a month (if I was lucky) that I was getting in my previous marriage. And she's into it, even if she has to consciously make herself. She does not have urges like the rest of us do. If I wasn't around, sex wouldn't even register with her. But she does it for us. Not for me. For US. Because she loves me. Because she loves US.

I admire your love for your wife greatly, I really really do. I have been there. My ex wife did things for me, too, but not the things I NEEDED, or any of us NEED. I, too, told myself it wasn't a one-sided relationship because she did this, this and this. But never the things that a human male, a human being requires in a marriage. In the end, she left, with these parting words: "I never loved you the way I was supposed to."

No s***.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She was withholding years ago and she still is. How utterly unsurprising! She's managed to obtain a couple kids to make it even harder for the OP to leave. Like boiling a frog.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

OP- you did not want advice- you wanted validation. You're not getting it because it's so obvious you are being used.

You're trying to stoke this feeling that you're a white knight. You're such a good guy that you've rescued your wife, her kid and even another kid.

To be honest, I feel like in a year or two, you will be on here with a story about how your wife cheated on you.

You know you deserve better than this.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Well, as long as hardly anyone can persuade us out of our marriages as long as we want to keep them, I just hope your wife's appetite will not start growing and she will not come up to you with more restrictions throughout the years (tho it looks like progression to me: first no sex, then no kids.. next?).
My only advice, if she ever comes up to you suggesting you having a vasectomy (for whatever reason, she might even say it's the decisive point in her not having sex with you now) - RUN. Run away from that idea. Don't do that. Remember words of *alexm*, remember my husband's experience. It will not fix your current marriage to the extent you would like to. But it might ruin everything you would have ever had after it.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Anon1111 said:


> To be honest, I feel like in a year or two, you will be on here with a story about how your wife cheated on you.


I really wanted to add this to my post, but decided not to, as it's pure speculation and has little to do with the here and now of OP's post, and OP is probably absolutely, positively certain his wife would never cheat on him. After all, she doesn't like sex and he feels that he's providing for all her other needs, right?

However, now that it's been brought up, it may as well be a subject that OP should pay some mind to, no matter how ridiculous he may think the suggestion of his wife cheating on him is.

This is why my first marriage broke up. Exactly why. I did all the things OP currently does with his wife. I did all the things I thought she wanted me to do, and wanted from me. I thought I was meeting all of her needs by being loving, caring, thoughtful and putting her on this pedestal. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say. The more I did for her, the more she took advantage. Probably subconsciously at first. By the end, she knew full well she could get away with just about anything - and did.

All of her needs were being met except for one: challenge. This is the trap I fell into. It wasn't her fault, it was mine, 100%. She didn't make me be like this, it was my choice. Her choice was to not return the favor by providing me with my needs within the marriage, and the fact that I was "okay" with that provided ZERO challenge to her, relationship-wise.

So she sought this challenge elsewhere, and last I heard, she had remarried and was happy and quite a different person than the one I knew.

I don't blame myself entirely - obviously she was the one at fault. She could have communicated to me that I was not being the husband she desired, or that she didn't want somebody who agreed with every word she said and never challenged her in any way. That's on her.No wonder she never wanted to have sex with me.

But the fact of the matter is, she took advantage of me. By the time it was apparent to her, she had it so good she probably didn't want to jeopardize it, and why should she? It ended up going on long enough that she no longer viewed me as worthy as a husband and partner - because I wasn't a husband and partner. I was a glorified butler/therapist for her who happened to live in the same house.

My marriage ended YEARS before it officially ended, I just didn't know it. OP will likely find himself in the same boat, even though he likely doesn't see it that way currently.

As for the lack of sex in his marriage, it's directly tied to how he treats his wife, no ifs ands or buts. The old "bait and switch" is a misnomer, imo. It's not usually a conscious thing on the part of the person employing it. OP and his wife (then girlfriend) were having sex twice a day sometimes, all while working, going to school and with her being a single mother of a 1 year old. What does this tell you? That she was faking it to land some help in the form of a partner? No. That she was bonding with him, and that she felt it was important. HE was important enough at that time for her to make the effort.

Now what has changed in those intervening years? (apart from there being MORE time for things like sex and bonding). Simple. She's got everything she was hoping for - a partner, some help, another income, stability, somebody to "understand" her, etc etc etc. Again, not conscious. Not a case of "now that I have him, I no longer have to do this." But very definitely a case of him no longer being a priority. Currently, she does the bare minimum to keep him around, and it's working. His needs? Forget it! In her mind, he's absolutely fine and not going anywhere.

The first several years my ex and I were together, our sex life was good and frequent. We dated for 7 years before we even lived together. She had a normal to high jealous side to her. Thus, as is natural, she made sure to "claim her territory" and the need to provide for me was there. Once we married and moved in together, the more she realized that I was not a threat to leave her, or cheat. Thus, the challenge and the need to mark her territory was no longer present.

Agai, not conscious. She didn't plan this from the day we met, that someday she "won't have to do this, this and this" ever again. That's rarely how these things work. The reality is, she became much too comfortable with me, to the point where she didn't have the instinct to mate-guard me any more. And it didn't take long until she went outside of the marriage to satisfy these innate needs she (and all of us) have to be challenged, to have somebody that is "ours", etc.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Well, since adultery was brought up, I will chime in a little more.

I wrote a lot in my thread about why I want to fix my sexual life with my husband (I'm the LD one in our couple), but I kept this one to myself. OK.
Husband1987, we sort of established we have some similarities with your wife (of course she is better than me, but still, there are a few).

Well, one of the hidden reasons I want to fight with my asexuality is that I am scared of myself. I feel I lack some secret bond with my husband. I'm not doing anything with him which I couldn't possibly do with some other man (in theory, with just a friend) - I theoretically could watch the telly with the friend, go out, have fun and laughs, send texts, go to the groceries, plan holidays.. There is nothing unique to my marriage. Nothing secret. Nothing REALLY just in between the two us. I am a very stubborn, highly-moral person with OCD (which means I physically cannot go out and just shag with someone as I need full medical examen of the person first, seriously). But I cannot guarantee even to myself that throughout the years of this quiet marriage I have now the delight of doing common things with my husband wouldn't be replaced with just friends. Or with another man. Or a girlfriend. And that the novelty of a new person in my life even with such common things will not seem "better" just due to its novelty. 
The marriage needs something intimate to itself. Something only you two know about. And it's not sexy texts.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

You are still young. But, here is what I see. You accept the marriage as is. You give up on the intimacy angle. Sex is just the physical act. Its the intimacy that sex brings, is what you crave. 

20 years from now, your wife has an affair. Wants, and files for divorce. You feel severely taken advantage of, because of what you have given up for the marriage, and given into the marriage. 

You will most definitely be worse off then. Search this forum. Do lots of reading. You will learn alot.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

toonaive said:


> 20 years from now, your wife has an affair. Wants, and files for divorce. You feel severely taken advantage of, because of what you have given up for the marriage, and given into the marriage.
> 
> You will most definitely be worse off then. Search this forum. Do lots of reading. You will learn alot.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

THIS!!!!!

Change "20 years" to "14 years" and you have me.

However, I COMPLETELY lucked out by finding my wife in a relatively short period of time after my first marriage broke up. Seriously, it was luck that brought us together.

This does not generally happen to people in my situation. As toonaive says, it is evident by many of the posts here on TAM.

I am under no illusions that my wife "saved" me or anything like that. I don't owe her a debt of gratitude for coming into my life when she did, and I would never say anything like this to her. But the fact remains, I bounced back in a positive way, when all too often, most people do not.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

You said her ex died, that is a possible issue going on with her. Maybe she feels like she is betraying his memory by being with you? The fact you guys did have sex a lot prior to marriage indicates she does in fact have a sex drive. Something is wrong in your relationship emotionally, which is why you struggle physically. It may be fixable, it may not. I would look into counseling or trying to have deep emotional discussions with her. When you do have sex, spend a lot of time trying to connect on a deeper level, versus just doing the deed. I was not able to get any of this done with my ex, lol, but that is the best advice I can give. Yeah, I fall into the 20 year category others here are talking about. Believe me, if you are waiting for her to change, chances are you will regret that. It takes 2 people to make a marriage work.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Terracota said:


> Well, as long as hardly anyone can persuade us out of our marriages as long as we want to keep them, I just hope your wife's appetite will not start growing and she will not come up to you with more restrictions throughout the years (tho it looks like progression to me: first no sex, then no kids.. next?).
> My only advice, if she ever comes up to you suggesting you having a vasectomy (for whatever reason, she might even say it's the decisive point in her not having sex with you now) - RUN. Run away from that idea. Don't do that. Remember words of *alexm*, remember my husband's experience. It will not fix your current marriage to the extent you would like to. But it might ruin everything you would have ever had after it.



I did this very thing. I have regretted it ever since. Do not for a second consider it. A giant red flag if you need any more.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I'll chime in with everyone else... it isn't right.

I know right now you say you'll do without but a few weeks, months, years from now you'll be sick of masturbating, tired of seeing viaga ads on TV where older couples are getting help so they can have sex (yeah, I know they are actors but you get the point) and realize that you have a woman who could be your sex partner but won't. The frustration and resentment will build. You will stop doing things for her, she will stop doing things for you and the relationship will spin out of control.

My wife and I decided to divorce. We were roommates. She decided to try to save the marriage. I told her there were three things she needed to do: 

1 - marriage counseling

2 - resume an intimate, fulfilling sexual relationship with me

3 - maintain the two above for a period of time (90 days was what I wanted)

She realized that doing this was better than divorce and it worked for us.

Your problem is that all the good things you do for her (what ANY husband would do for his wife) rewards her for withholding sex. Why should she change anything? And you said you won't divorce her... what is her impetus to change? There is none.

If you haven't yet adopted yet, put it on hold. Explain to her that you don't want to bring another child into the family unless the relationship gets straightened out.


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## Trying95 (May 24, 2013)

Her first pregnancy was difficult, her first husband passed away, you had an active sex life prior to marriage but after it stops. You say she does loving things for you, dresses up, buys you gifts, words of affirmation, but no sex drive? What has she said to that when you have had your discussions? 

If she is a low sex drive person, that usually won't change but she needs to take your needs into account and try to do for you what you do for her. Not pity sex but loving, connecting, caring sex that shows her love and respect for her life partner. Does she realize this? Does she know she should just initiate once in awhile , even when she doesn't feel like it and just wants to go to sleep? Have you had this discussion with her? I think counseling is a good idea, especially if she has some hidden fear.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

OP by you sticking with her and putting up with this bs she is losing or has totally lost respect for you even if it's subconsciously.
Sadly you could do so much better and yes life is too short you need NMMNG and MMSLP like yesterday.
And look up women and the limbic brain.
Women won't have sex with someone they don't respect.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*alexm*, I want to quote your every word 

To the author: you genuinely think you provide her with all she needs. You try your best to give her the best of life - even if it's her understanding of it, not yours. She probably tells you she feels "a very loved girl" or "a spoilt child" with you, putting it as a compliment. But all it brings her - extra comfort, and the total feeling of freedom. The bad freedom. She hardly plans anything nasty against you, of course not. But one day she will be burnt up by someone else - and this nasty freedom with you will let her forget about you. And along that one, whether you reach that destination or not, that feeling of control over you will make her do things from time to time just to see how far she can push. Or maybe looking for finally some protest from you.

I am in the marriage in the place of your wife. And that's how I feel.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

OP sounds similar to me, when I was married. I thought I could stick it out no matter what...now I wish I had divorced years early.

OP, you're her "best-buddy". You provide, she takes. You give, she uses. You agree, she continues, and nothing will ever change because you enable her in every way.

You're not happy. For you, having children and having sex are important things, and she's denying you both of those things. AND THOSE ARE IMPORTANT THINGS FOR EVERYONE.

If you stay, years from now, you'll regret you didn't divorce when you were younger.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

tulsy said:


> OP sounds similar to me, when I was married. I thought I could stick it out no matter what...now I wish I had divorced years early.
> 
> OP, you're her "best-buddy". You provide, she takes. You give, she uses. You agree, she continues, and nothing will ever change because you enable her in every way.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jared,
You've trained her to be selfish. As soon as you got married she learned that she could do what she wanted and you would continue treating her like gold. 

That's your choice. And as you are learning - totally conceding the field on sex doesn't get you considerate treatment in other parts of your marriage. You agree to adopt a stepson and a little girl, and she tells you NO to a bio child. 

You and I have very different definitions of doormat. 



QUOTE=husband1987;11226754]Not at all. Twice a day was common, and that was while we were undergrads both working two jobs. She was also a single parent at this time, so I thought it couldn't get much worse stress-wise. It abruptly stopped after getting married. I don't expect it to be like it was in the beginning even though I'd be happy with twice a day because I'm still that attracted to her. I'd realistically settle for twice per week as a minimum. I don't think that is too much to ask for at our age.[/QUOTE]


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Jared,
> You've trained her to be selfish. As soon as you got married she learned that she could do what she wanted and you would continue treating her like gold.
> 
> That's your choice. And as you are learning - totally conceding the field on sex doesn't get you considerate treatment in other parts of your marriage. You agree to adopt a stepson and a little girl, and she tells you NO to a bio child.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

She has him well trained.
But it's his life thank God not mine hope he get's IC.:scratchhead:


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Ask yourself, if you knew this would be your future during your engagement or courtship, would you still have gone ahead and married her?


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