# Trying to figure out how to truly love again



## Broken/unable to fix me (Feb 18, 2021)

I don’t know where to start so I’ll jump in. We have been married 20 years, got married right out of high school. My parents went through infidelity/divorce and I promised myself I wouldn’t go down that path.
Long story longer, I am sure most would call me a jerk/terrible person for how I was early in my marriage. I was head over heals in love and didn’t listen to anyone before I got married, cause you know, I was an 18 year old and knew everything. As the years went by, marriage wasn’t what I thought it was going to be, nothing terrible, just little things like her not wanting me to go golfing, fishing, hunting, things like that. 
For a long time, I wanted out, but still wasn’t going to get divorced, so I just dealt with it. We had our ups and downs like any marriage, after our 4th child, my wife got in touch with a friend from a long time ago. Me being the ignorant person who didn’t expect cheating was even an option, I was happy I didn’t have to deal with her as she was chatting with him (see jerk comment from earlier). Anyways, she ended up sleeping with him and she immediately regretted it. We worked through it and things were fine for the next couple years, she was very apologetic and I believed her when she said she wasn’t going to do that again. 
Fast forward, she has lost weight, started lifting weights and was in the best shape of her life, even as I type this I can’t believe the events that took place, I’m amazed. Anyways, we went down the path of getting into sexual situations with a couple we knew, it was fun, but it ended cause that stuff isn’t going to last.
I used the affair she did and personally, I was lost my self, we went down the path of teasing having a 3-some. I was obsessed with the thought of having a FFM and I guess I would do anything to get it. We decided to do a MMF and it was an absolute disaster, she ended up falling for him. What the hell was I thinking 🤦‍♂️ We ended up getting separated, she was flip flopping what she wanted, she ended up asking the other guy to move out, but then was hanging out with the new neighbor that moved in. She asked me if had a problem with her hanging out with home, I told her straight to her face, yes, I have a huge problem with it, we are trying to fix our marriage and I said that she is going to hurt me again. Low and behold, she did sleep with him too. I said I had enough, I told her I wanted a divorce. People can believe what they want, she stopped her adulterous behavior, it took a long time to trust her, but I got to the point of trusting her. This all happened in 2015, so now it’s 5 years later. She tells me every day how grateful that she is with me, and she is so very sorry for everything that she did. So with that very long story, my question is this, has anyone gone through fidelity and made it out and found the desire to love again? I’m not meaning just “I love you” I mean, like dead pool when his wife would tell him “kiss me like you miss me” and things like that, cause I think of those moments and I don’t know how to find that anymore. It’s frustrating, cause aside from any faults, I have loved my wife like not many men have. I can deal with some of the affairs cause some were my fault to a point, but that last one, the neighbor, I told her she was going to hurt me and she did, and I can’t get past that one. It’s been burning a hole in my brain for a very long time. Last spring, I told her I was wanted a divorce cause I was in too much pain. Then the kids got home from school and I didn’t want to do that to them, not to mention, she hasn’t worked in a long time, I tried to drop hints for her to get a job so she would have means to support her self in case things went sideways, she ended up getting a job at the school which was nice, but only works 3 hours a day. I WANT to be madly in love again, I’m a very spoiling husband, I just want to feel that desire again and I don’t know if it’s achievable. Sorry for the novel, hopefully someone has some advice. I am on call 24/7 so it’s been hard to set up an appointment to talk with a therapist. I’ll keep looking for answers


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Broken/unable to fix me said:


> I don’t know where to start so I’ll jump in. We have been married 20 years, got married right out of high school. My parents went through infidelity/divorce and I promised myself I wouldn’t go down that path.
> Long story longer, I am sure most would call me a jerk/terrible person for how I was early in my marriage. I was head over heals in love and didn’t listen to anyone before I got married, cause you know, I was an 18 year old and knew everything. As the years went by, marriage wasn’t what I thought it was going to be, nothing terrible, just little things like her not wanting me to go golfing, fishing, hunting, things like that.
> For a long time, I wanted out, but still wasn’t going to get divorced, so I just dealt with it. We had our ups and downs like any marriage, after our 4th child, my wife got in touch with a friend from a long time ago. Me being the ignorant person who didn’t expect cheating was even an option, I was happy I didn’t have to deal with her as she was chatting with him (see jerk comment from earlier). Anyways, she ended up sleeping with him and she immediately regretted it. We worked through it and things were fine for the next couple years, she was very apologetic and I believed her when she said she wasn’t going to do that again.
> Fast forward, she has lost weight, started lifting weights and was in the best shape of her life, even as I type this I can’t believe the events that took place, I’m amazed. Anyways, we went down the path of getting into sexual situations with a couple we knew, it was fun, but it ended cause that stuff isn’t going to last.
> I used the affair she did and personally, I was lost my self, we went down the path of teasing having a 3-some. I was obsessed with the thought of having a FFM and I guess I would do anything to get it. We decided to do a MMF and it was an absolute disaster, she ended up falling for him. What the hell was I thinking 🤦‍♂️ We ended up getting separated, she was flip flopping what she wanted, she ended up asking the other guy to move out, but then was hanging out with the new neighbor that moved in. She asked me if had a problem with her hanging out with home, I told her straight to her face, yes, I have a huge problem with it, we are trying to fix our marriage and I said that she is going to hurt me again. Low and behold, she did sleep with him too. I said I had enough, I told her I wanted a divorce. People can believe what they want, she stopped her adulterous behavior, it took a long time to trust her, but I got to the point of trusting her. This all happened in 2015, so now it’s 5 years later. She tells me every day how grateful that she is with me, and she is so very sorry for everything that she did. So with that very long story, my question is this, has anyone gone through fidelity and made it out and found the desire to love again? I’m not meaning just “I love you” I mean, like dead pool when his wife would tell him “kiss me like you miss me” and things like that, cause I think of those moments and I don’t know how to find that anymore. It’s frustrating, cause aside from any faults, I have loved my wife like not many men have. I can deal with some of the affairs cause some were my fault to a point, but that last one, the neighbor, I told her she was going to hurt me and she did, and I can’t get past that one. It’s been burning a hole in my brain for a very long time. Last spring, I told her I was wanted a divorce cause I was in too much pain. Then the kids got home from school and I didn’t want to do that to them, not to mention, she hasn’t worked in a long time, I tried to drop hints for her to get a job so she would have means to support her self in case things went sideways, she ended up getting a job at the school which was nice, but only works 3 hours a day. I WANT to be madly in love again, I’m a very spoiling husband, I just want to feel that desire again and I don’t know if it’s achievable. Sorry for the novel, hopefully someone has some advice. I am on call 24/7 so it’s been hard to set up an appointment to talk with a therapist. I’ll keep looking for answers


What did you two actually do, individually and as a couple, to reconcile? It sounds like the affairs were swept under the rug and that never works. You will be feeling like this forever if it's not properly dealt with.

Things can get better but you both have to want to do the work, and the work sucks. It's something like 2-5 years to heal from infidelity, when it's properly dealt with. Trying to sweep it under the rug and move on just prolongs the pain.

After the individual work is done and after the infidelity has been worked on, EFT can be quite helpful at bringing those feelings back, getting you closer, etc. But again, _after_ the other work has been done.

And there is a difference between FFM, FMF, MMF, and MFM. I'm assuming you weren't banging the dude (could be wrong) but that's what MMF is.


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## Broken/unable to fix me (Feb 18, 2021)

As far as formal counseling goes, we haven’t done any. What work do you mean, unless you mean working with a therapist. Also, what is EFT? I would like to, just need to make time. To answer the last question, no, I wasn’t banging the dude, apologies for the incorrect acronym use.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Why did y’all decide to start entering into threesomes?


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## Broken/unable to fix me (Feb 18, 2021)

Cause I was in a dark place and wasn’t thinking straight. Like I said earlier, I look back and can’t believe what happened and I should have gone to a therapy


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

I think the feelings you are seeking will be very hard to obtain after all that has gone on. It’s more a matter if what is left is enough.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Broken/unable to fix me said:


> I don’t know where to start so I’ll jump in. We have been married 20 years, got married right out of high school. My parents went through infidelity/divorce and I promised myself I wouldn’t go down that path.
> Long story longer, I am sure most would call me a jerk/terrible person for how I was early in my marriage. I was head over heals in love and didn’t listen to anyone before I got married, cause you know, I was an 18 year old and knew everything. As the years went by, marriage wasn’t what I thought it was going to be, nothing terrible, just little things like her not wanting me to go golfing, fishing, hunting, things like that.
> For a long time, I wanted out, but still wasn’t going to get divorced, so I just dealt with it. We had our ups and downs like any marriage, after our 4th child, my wife got in touch with a friend from a long time ago. Me being the ignorant person who didn’t expect cheating was even an option, I was happy I didn’t have to deal with her as she was chatting with him (see jerk comment from earlier). Anyways, she ended up sleeping with him and she immediately regretted it. We worked through it and things were fine for the next couple years, she was very apologetic and I believed her when she said she wasn’t going to do that again.
> Fast forward, she has lost weight, started lifting weights and was in the best shape of her life, even as I type this I can’t believe the events that took place, I’m amazed. Anyways, we went down the path of getting into sexual situations with a couple we knew, it was fun, but it ended cause that stuff isn’t going to last.
> I used the affair she did and personally, I was lost my self, we went down the path of teasing having a 3-some. I was obsessed with the thought of having a FFM and I guess I would do anything to get it. We decided to do a MMF and it was an absolute disaster, she ended up falling for him. What the hell was I thinking 🤦‍♂️ We ended up getting separated, she was flip flopping what she wanted, she ended up asking the other guy to move out, but then was hanging out with the new neighbor that moved in. She asked me if had a problem with her hanging out with home, I told her straight to her face, yes, I have a huge problem with it, we are trying to fix our marriage and I said that she is going to hurt me again. Low and behold, she did sleep with him too. I said I had enough, I told her I wanted a divorce. People can believe what they want, she stopped her adulterous behavior, it took a long time to trust her, but I got to the point of trusting her. This all happened in 2015, so now it’s 5 years later. She tells me every day how grateful that she is with me, and she is so very sorry for everything that she did. So with that very long story, my question is this, has anyone gone through fidelity and made it out and found the desire to love again? I’m not meaning just “I love you” I mean, like dead pool when his wife would tell him “kiss me like you miss me” and things like that, cause I think of those moments and I don’t know how to find that anymore. It’s frustrating, cause aside from any faults, I have loved my wife like not many men have. I can deal with some of the affairs cause some were my fault to a point, but that last one, the neighbor, I told her she was going to hurt me and she did, and I can’t get past that one. It’s been burning a hole in my brain for a very long time. Last spring, I told her I was wanted a divorce cause I was in too much pain. Then the kids got home from school and I didn’t want to do that to them, not to mention, she hasn’t worked in a long time, I tried to drop hints for her to get a job so she would have means to support her self in case things went sideways, she ended up getting a job at the school which was nice, but only works 3 hours a day. I WANT to be madly in love again, I’m a very spoiling husband, I just want to feel that desire again and I don’t know if it’s achievable. Sorry for the novel, hopefully someone has some advice. I am on call 24/7 so it’s been hard to set up an appointment to talk with a therapist. I’ll keep looking for answers



Here is the deal, when you start looking for the butterflies and the Hollywood movie ideal of love and desire, you are doing the same kind of thing people do when they have affairs. That’s infatuation. You can get divorced today and go find infatuation with some woman off the street, but you’ll have that for about 6 months to a year. Then you’ll have to do it again. And again. This is why people get cheated on, their spouse decided they needed some butterflies, but didn’t want to go about the distasteful business of getting divorced first. 

True love to me? That’s willing to die for the person you love, the family you made together. The relationship you’ve built over time, being faithful and loyal. To be willing to step in front of a truck over hurting the person you love. Protecting the person you love from the world, protecting each other from other people that seek to destroy you. Finding joy in having a witness in life, a person who appreciates the real you. A person who you can call day or night and they have your back. For life. And you have theirs. No words needed. No squishy declarations required.

I don’t trust and never will trust what people say no matter how smooshy their words are. I will never trust the high that comes with infatuation. I will trust actions over time and the safety of a truly loyal and dedicated person. 

I have had to seriously evaluate what I’m willing to put up with, only you can figure out what you are willing to. What you deserve. And if your wife can provide ANY level of contentment or love, or infatuation. You can seek infatuation, by all means many people only have infatuated relationships... a string of them! Just make sure you’re divorced before you seek that.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

It appears you let her off the hook a number of times. She knows she can always coming running back and you’ll take her back. Can you continue to live in the marriage knowing all the horrible things that happened? People rarely change, and especially those that have not faced any consequences like your wife. You can be madly in love again, but it will never be with the woman you’re currently with.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You might have been a terrible husband, but I doubt it. You married a serial cheater (what is if 4 times now?) You were feeling unhappy because your spouse tries to prevent you from reasonably participating in your hobbies, with a spouse that turns out to be a serial cheater. Eventually getting to the point of wanting out of a marriage with someone who acts like a serial cheater, all of that is probably not because you are bad husband but because your wife is a serial cheater and at least subconsciously you know this. After reading these sites for years, it turns out probably unsurprisingly people who have character poor enough to cheat generally also have poor character when it comes to other stuff in the marriage. Your wife has given herself to 2/3? men while married to you that you know of.

Besides even if you were the worst husband her cheating is on her. There were many other ways to deal with this, cheating is always an abusive response.

Let me see if I have this straight, you got cheated on and reacted very poorly, pushing for a 3 some, but that is after swinging with some friends (I wonder whose idea that was?). Anyway Surprise! it seems like your wife was about that lifestyle too, but insisted it was a guy, so you ended up with another guy in your bed that "afterwords" she "fell in love" with. You got to wonder about that timing? Who introduced this guy into the mix? Was it her? Did she have a relationship with him before all this? Again I personally think this is a terrible choice for an already unstable marriage but it doesn't sound like YOU cheated. You both agreed upon this, and she ended up going back to her adulterous pattern. Not surprising for a serial cheater.

After that (which seems to be a full fledged affair where she moves the guy in. Was it YOUR HOME?) You want a divorce, but you decided to work on it. Still you tell her you have a problem with the neighbor and she basically admits she slept with him too (while you were working on it). I'm shocked!!! Now you are done, and Suddenly she has an epiphany. Today, 5 years later, still together, with maturity, maybe even subconsciously you realize you have bought a lemon. Although your post here basically blames yourself. Bottom line, you think you can do better. Well duh..

Oh and she was a SAHM too. This is also a very typical pattern. She should be working full time like a reasonable adult. Having you taking care of her like a child creates entitlement. And is just another selfish aspect of everything else. It creates a parent/child dynamic. 

Here is the deal, you were on the right track after she cheated on you the second time when you wanted a divorce. That was the path for you to get healthy. Instead you took this right turn and basically prolonged your suffering and dysfunction, and here you are.

Now could you have been a better and more mature husband, sure, part of that is being 18 and married. If this was where we were I would be telling you to wise up, but she doesn't sound like marriage material. It's just you don't realize because you married at 18 and have not had any other real relationships. You have no context and history to draw upon. For instance she didn't want you to do any of your hobbies becasue she is a serial cheater and she uses her hobbies to give her excuses to hide her behavior. It's projection. She probably had a relationship with the guy in the 3 some before you even knew about him. I would bet money that if she hasn't already she will cheat on you again. It's in her nature? Has she even gotten any IC for all her cheating or is it the policy in your marriage that all her cheating is on you being a bad husband?

UNDERSTAND THIS. It's impossible to be a HEALTHY person and love someone (the way you are expecting of yourself) when they cheat on you 2 to 4 times (that you know of). Because a healthy person knows they can do better, because a healthy person knows that is unwise. Of course you don't love her. And she doesn't love you, not in a way you need to to be married. This is not a problem, it's the one place where you are thinking the most clearly.

Yes maybe you need to mature, but I personally would just tell her you don't love her anymore, that the damage was too great and divorce. Co-parent the best way you can. Go get some IC to figure out why you put up with all this an how to be a mature husband. And DNA test your kids.

Sorry to be blunt but your perception (though typical of someone married young to a serial cheater) is just not right here.

So to answer your question in the title, you love again by finding someone worthy of that love, and then acting like a mature husband.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Broken/unable to fix me said:


> As far as formal counseling goes, we haven’t done any. What work do you mean, unless you mean working with a therapist. Also, what is EFT? I would like to, just need to make time. To answer the last question, no, I wasn’t banging the dude, apologies for the incorrect acronym use.


You need to start at the individual level first. So that means you go to a therapist of your own, and your wife goes to her own. You both need to work in the issues that led to this situation, on that individual level. After enough work has been done there, then you can do marriage counseling (if you even want to at that point). This is when you deal with the affairs together and get it all out. It's probably the hardest part, if done properly (at least for the betrayed spouse). After the infidelity had been worked through, then that's when EFT can be helpful (in my experience). How long each "step" takes varies because every situation is different but you both have to be 100% committed to it. 

EFT is emotionally focused therapy. You can look it up to read more about it. 

A good book to read is "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. You should both read it. Another one that may be helpful is "Not Just Friends". 

And like said above, don't look at shows or movies for what your relationship should look like or feel like. There is nothing real about them.



> I would like to, just need to make time.


We make time for the things that are important to us. Something to keep in mind.


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## Avgman (Jan 18, 2019)

I don't know how you, I or anyone else can completely with all their heart love someone that betrayed them in the past. I've posted many times here and even sometimes saying I love my wife, which I do but not with everything I have. She has cheated on me with her ex husband, had my brother over our house 2 nights back to back while I worked night (her friend even told me she wanted to give it up those nights) which led to family problems, my cousin over our house while I worked nights and the last one (that I know of) was with my best friend, so I thought he was. I've been a nut case for the last 10 years. So our stories have some similarities, as she asked about a 3some with my friend that's she ended up sleeping with anyway. I just don't know if you can ever truly love someone after all of that. Good luck.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Avgman said:


> I don't know how you, I or anyone else can completely with all their heart love someone that betrayed them in the past. I've posted many times here and even sometimes saying I love my wife, which I do but not with everything I have. She has cheated on me with her ex husband, had my brother over our house 2 nights back to back while I worked night (her friend even told me she wanted to give it up those nights) which led to family problems, my cousin over our house while I worked nights and the last one (that I know of) was with my best friend, so I thought he was. I've been a nut case for the last 10 years. So our stories have some similarities, as she asked about a 3some with my friend that's she ended up sleeping with anyway. I just don't know if you can ever truly love someone after all of that. Good luck.


And I don't know how you guys stay, why do you guys put of with this?


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## Avgman (Jan 18, 2019)

sokillme said:


> And I don't know how you guys stay, why do you guys put of with this?


I haven't been the best either, we both went astray since being together. Back in the day I stayed at the bar, drink like crazy and made bad decisions...not using that as an excuse. Plus I knew she had already slept with ex and hasn't brother over, so instead of splitting up I let the good times fly as well. It's just something we did, I met people we didn't know, she seems to pick friends or ex husband's. It's been years now since either of us have done anything, that I know of. I know I haven't, I don't think she has. But we both know what happened and it shows it's face from time to time.


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## Broken/unable to fix me (Feb 18, 2021)

I appreciate the time you put in to reply. I’ll answer some of ur questions.

The swinging with friends albeit there was no sex, it was the guys idea cause his wife was turned on to my wife. Still dumb, I pushed the idea...

The guy that was with the 3-some was my idea, terrible logic on my part thinking she would get a 3-some and then it would be my turn, again, some terrible behavior and very bad decisions.

I was mainly trying to find ways to work out to find that spark, seeing if anyone had any other personal experience.



sokillme said:


> You might have been a terrible husband, but I doubt it. You married a serial cheater (what is if 4 times now?) You were feeling unhappy because your spouse tries to prevent you from reasonably participating in your hobbies, with a spouse that turns out to be a serial cheater. Eventually getting to the point of wanting out of a marriage with someone who acts like a serial cheater, all of that is probably not because you are bad husband but because your wife is a serial cheater and at least subconsciously you know this. After reading these sites for years, it turns out probably unsurprisingly people who have character poor enough to cheat generally also have poor character when it comes to other stuff in the marriage. Your wife has given herself to 2/3? men while married to you that you know of.
> 
> Besides even if you were the worst husband her cheating is on her. There were many other ways to deal with this, cheating is always an abusive response.
> 
> ...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Broken/unable to fix me said:


> I appreciate the time you put in to reply. I’ll answer some of ur questions.
> 
> The swinging with friends albeit there was no sex, it was the guys idea cause his wife was turned on to my wife. Still dumb, I pushed the idea...
> 
> ...


I would love to fly like Superman too. 

So did she know the guy ahead of time?

Sorry I know my post is probably not what you are looking for so I will bow out here, but one more thing, you better watch her like a hawk. Ever her the proverb of the scorpion and the frog? the problem is her nature.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I have to give you a lot of credit for encouraging your wife to get a job just in case. Probably she needs a full-time one, of course. 

You know the problems mostly stem from marrying young. I mean, it's natural for people who marry young (at least a lot of them) to feel they missed out on exploring, so that seems like what has gone on in your marriage. Most people would have just gone their own ways. I know so many of my old expanded crowd divorced in their mid to late 20s, just outgrew each other. I mean, our brains aren't even fully developed until that age, mid- to late 20s. The part of the brain that can predict consequences simply isn't complete yet. So in many ways, a big change is usually going to be coming once the brain is mature and can see around corners a little. It's not really surprising. 

I feel you have behaved in a measured fashion, in a good way, not acting rashly, trying to understand her side as well as your own, and that seems fairly rare, especially on forums such as this! I don't know your wife, so probably only you could know if she is always going to be impulsive and unrestrained or if she has turned the corner into maturity and commitment. I don't even know if she's capable of telling you the truth on the subject or not. 

Do you get the feeling when you have a serious talk about the future of your family that she is being honest with you? Do you feel she has it in her to commit and dedicate herself to the family now? Do you know where her heart is, how she really feels about you? 

Just from my read of how you have narrated this story, I believe YOU are certainly capable of love again, because you've held onto this one through a lot. It's another question whether you can trust her not to hurt you again. I mean, she's done it without much consequence. I would usually tell you once people can get away with it without consequence, they'll just keep doing it. You both kind of participated, though, so that somewhat levels the playing field, I suppose. 

I guess what you have to assess is whether you want to stay with her, with this lack of trust, knowing it could happen again. Or whether you want to find a new mate who might not ever cheat on you. Or whether you think you'll never find one you loved as much as her. You're always going to have her in your life because of the kids. But if you do break up and move on to another woman, another woman will not be okay with you doing the ex favors or letting the ex interrupt you with unnecessary communication or with seeing the ex. So you do have to realize you can't move on to anyone and try to keep that option open. You'll have to set boundaries and stick with them. 

Good luck.


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## Broken/unable to fix me (Feb 18, 2021)

She has shown nothing but love and remorse for what she did. I feel like something was taken from me, and I am trying to get it back. It’s slowly coming around. I appreciate all the advice here, all those problems are in the past, I have heard it all about serial cheaters and once a cheater always a cheater, and it took a long time to trust again. I will keep working on me and talking with her to find our spark again



DownByTheRiver said:


> I have to give you a lot of credit for encouraging your wife to get a job just in case. Probably she needs a full-time one, of course.
> 
> You know the problems mostly stem from marrying young. I mean, it's natural for people who marry young (at least a lot of them) to feel they missed out on exploring, so that seems like what has gone on in your marriage. Most people would have just gone their own ways. I know so many of my old expanded crowd divorced in their mid to late 20s, just outgrew each other. I mean, our brains aren't even fully developed until that age, mid- to late 20s. The part of the brain that can predict consequences simply isn't complete yet. So in many ways, a big change is usually going to be coming once the brain is mature and can see around corners a little. It's not really surprising.
> 
> ...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Broken/unable to fix me said:


> She has shown nothing but love and remorse for what she did. I feel like something was taken from me, and I am trying to get it back. It’s slowly coming around. I appreciate all the advice here, all those problems are in the past, I have heard it all about serial cheaters and once a cheater always a cheater, and it took a long time to trust again. I will keep working on me and talking with her to find our spark again


I so understand what you are saying. Trust me I do. I know I sound cynical and maybe I am but that spark may never come back. You both are no longer the same people. Maybe something new and fulfilling can be obtained but chasing the spark may leaving you feeling worse. Does that make sense?


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