# Ex, Ruined Christmas and Facebook Mistrust



## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

This will be a longer post so thanks for staying with me and commenting as I don't have any friends or family Id be comfortable with explaining this to.

I've been with my wife for 19 years and married for 11. We have both as far as I know been very faithful. I want to describe myself a little too...I believe when you marry someone you commit 100%. You leave your past ..in your past. I roll this way as I think it very disrespectful to the other person to keep bringing up old flames.

So....Rewind to 3 years ago. 

We are at a neighbors party and my wife and I are all sitting around the table with friends enjoying the day. One of our neighbors asks her neighbor if she knew my wife's Ex. I knew my wife was bringing him up in conversation to her new friends and neighbors. We had a huge fight over it as I felt she still has an interest in an old supposedly "gotten over" flame. Enough to continue to have conversations with friends about him. I was hurt and at the same time very angry. 

We had some arguments before this incident where she compared me to her ex in a negative way. It was one of the worst if not the worst thing shes ever said to me.

Fast fwd to 4 days ago. I m on our computer and look up history to re visit a page that I was looking at for a part for my Bow. I see in addition to my pages is a Facebook page containing the visited page of MY Wife's Ex's wife and him. I let one day lapse and see that that days history is erased.
I wrote down the name of her exes wife and then ask her who the lady was. She lied and said she didn't know then about 5 minutes later told me the truth. 

I got very angry and upset. I was against either of us getting Facebook acct s as I knew she would look up flames from her past. She PROMISED me she would do nothing of the sort a year ago when we both logged on to FB. So I was Ok with it.

My question is Am I wrong fro feeling betrayed and angry? Should I as many of her friends husbands just "be mature and accept it" ?
We've been arguing for the last few days and its pretty much ruined my Christmas.

Thanks for any advice or commentary.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I would be upset too and as a wife it's not something I would ever do to my husband. I think if she can't control herself, she shouldn't be on social media.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Psych (Aug 26, 2013)

It would bother me too. There seems to be some pining for the ex flame. You can't change her feelings but keep,your eyes open. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I dont see a reason to go full spy on her yet but enough to keep your eyes open.

IF in the future needed, CWI section has what you need. Again. Only eyes open at this point.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

It seems she has problems respecting boundaries. I think you should be concerned at this point. She has proven to you that she would rather engage in deception than have a discussion with you about it. Is marriage counselling an option? A safe place to get things out in the open. You also need to start thinking on what constitutes a deal breaker for you. Let her know in plain, straight forward language, so there can be no confusion. And stick to it. Maybe a joint fb account for the both of you? You might want to consider a key logger on the computer too, to see the extent of her deception. If you do, never ever reveal your sources of info, directly or indirectly. Does she use a smartphone too?


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I got very angry and upset. I was against either of us getting Facebook acct s as I knew she would look up flames from her past. She PROMISED me she would do nothing of the sort a year ago when we both logged on to FB. So I was Ok with it.
> 
> My question is Am I wrong fro feeling betrayed and angry? Should I as many of her friends husbands just "be mature and accept it" ?
> We've been arguing for the last few days and its pretty much ruined my Christmas.


Your description was a little hard to follow, but it looks like she created a FB page and used it to look up her ex and her ex's wife? Is that correct?

If that is all that happened, then I think you are overreacting and ruining Christmas is all on you. Are you seriously jealous simply because your wife looked at another man's FB page? Am I reading that right?

It's ridiculous to insist someone can't get a FB page because they might look up old flames. Of course they will look them up. People are naturally curious. But that's normal, it's not cheating, and there is nothing wrong with it. SadAndAngry said she isn't respecting boundaries. Well, you shouldn't respect boundaries when those boundaries are blatantly unreasonable. 

HOWEVER, if she has been secretly corresponding with her ex, that is very different from simply looking at his page, and then yes you have every reason to be concerned.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

On the subject of new partners talking about Ex's, I would enjoy a female perspective on something that's just occurred to me.

It's my impression, that when a woman leaves a man, that's it they don't exist, never existed.

If someone leaves them, then they wonder about him till the day they die.

In the second case, they're always damaged by it pretty bad too.

I don't know why, but I've always been sympathetic and interested in talking about how they felt about it, and they seem to get over it that way. Not in a 'want to seem nice guy' way, but just because if the conversation happens in a detached way, it's actually interesting. 

Here's what I'm wondering:

1. Is this another example of indirect communication? Once they've talked about their past, they seem to then get on with the present. Is this another test which up to now I've been passing without realising it was a test? You know, this conversation has always, always come up sooner or later, and I've always been really interested in understanding what they had, it provides some good insights on who this person is. Was I supposed to get jealous?? Perhaps half of it was horsecrap intended to test my jealousy metre - something I don't at all have. Does not reacting negatively mean I appear super-confident?

2. If it is a jealousy/self-esteem test, then in the case of the OP, is he failing the test by reacting with jealousy/envy, or failing the test by not demanding she quit all further references to this bloke?

Thank you in advance, I seek your wisdom


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Sandfly said:


> On the subject of new partners talking about Ex's, I would enjoy a female perspective on something that's just occurred to me.
> 
> It's my impression, that when a woman leaves a man, that's it they don't exist, never existed.
> 
> ...


The OP seems insecure. But if that is how he is, that is how he is. You have to start where you are. That is why I thought the suggestion to talk to his wife would be good. Communication, communication.

A secure guy would say, huh, my wife seems to still have some intensity toward that guy. He might wonder why, not in a jealous way, but maybe out of curiosity or concern for his wife. He wants her to be happy, and if she has some kind of hang up, it might be helpful to talk with her about it. Maybe there is some feeling she has not resolved. Maybe listening to her share her feelings on the subject could help her heal.

The way you handle it is perfect. The lady can get it out, heal, and move on, in peace, with you.

But many men are not as secure as you are. And that is why it is so good you are here, showing them the way.

My dh is secure. He listens as much as I need him to when past trauma surfaces. He is reassuring. 

But where he falls short, and where you succeed, is that dh does not probe, does not ask questions. He is happy to be there for me, just listening, and occasionally making an observation, but not probing. Unfortunately, the healing takes longer this way. If he would ask questions, push me a bit, it would probably go quicker. But he is not a psychologist, but an engineer, and I am lucky he is as communicative as he is, lol.

A secure man can care for his wife simply because she needs to be cared for. An insecure man is needy and is worried about losing the source of his nourishment.

Keep showing the women in your life the compassion and understanding that you are, Sandfly; the world certainly needs it.

And I think it is no coincidence that you are into left wing politics and an avoider of religion. It is a sign of health.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You edited your post since my last post, and I would just like to answer one question. Yes, you are right to move on if someone does not want you. All the blubbering about she left me, she left me, is best dealt with in private for a man. Probably sexist, but I think that is how it is. Women are looking for strength, and that just does not show strength. 

Cry until you are cried out, and when you are done crying and have accepted that she is gone, and that somehow it was for the best, then go out and see the new, lovely lady that is bound to come into your life, the one that can love and appreciate you and not make you cry.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Sorry, I'll edit it back. I do this with all my posts - change my mind, change it back.

I have to try not to offend, as it comes very easily to me.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Jld, thank you for your answers. 

They were well constructed, so that I could follow them.

Talking about myself... for some reason I have never doubted that I could make any partner happy, simply by always being completely honest and thirsting to know what makes them tick. It's really easy, there's no trick to it, IMO you just have to ignore what they are supposed to want - such as marriage, half your pay packet, to be driven everywhere, to go to restaurants, and give them what they really want - a true friend and a kind of father figure (bad analogy maybe) and a lover all in one.

I am not at all confident around party-women as time goes on. More and more are the party-goer and music groupie type. I simply don't understand what they get out of it. A month with me, and they would forget all that, but I can't be bothered with the games that one must play to get their attention. For me, night-club people are very bizarre and seem unsatisfied. I am extremely uncomfortable around people who are in this one particular type of environment (probably a phobia, because it's not rational.)

Apart from that, I'm confident. Especially at public speaking... and interviews etc. where I can project a persona (sounds like a contradiction, but it's an honest persona, just a different one)

Would you please describe yourself and how you see things?

Learning from other people's perception of the world is interesting and productive. 

Perhaps the OP and myself might ask you about your view of 'confidence', and how you achieve it?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I presume you are both around 40-45 yrs old. So her history with him is a long time ago when she was around 20-ish.



Mrinsensitive said:


> I believe when you marry someone you commit 100%. You leave your past ..in your past. I roll this way as* I think it very disrespectful to the other person to keep bringing up old flames*.


Yes it is disrespectful to bring up exes repeatedly without darned good reason. There will always be the odd legitimate reason. But I can't really think of good reasons for it to happen more than once every decade.



Mrinsensitive said:


> So....Rewind to 3 years ago.
> 
> One of our neighbors asks her neighbor if she knew my wife's Ex. I knew *my wife was bringing him up in conversation to her new friends and neighbors*. We had a huge fight over it as I felt she still has an interest in an old supposedly "gotten over" flame. Enough to continue to have conversations with friends about him. I was hurt and at the same time very angry.


So here she is 16 years or more after any romantic relationship with the guy and she is talking about him to neighbors, and it is enough of a subject that the neighbors are talking about it amongst themselves, too. It seems way too much to me.

Is there a missing fact here, like her ex shares some social or professional circles with some of these people?

It seems quite excessive to me that she was talking about him in what must have been a significant way to these neighbors. I can understand you feeling hurt.



Mrinsensitive said:


> We had some arguments before this incident where she compared me to her ex in a negative way. It was one of the worst if not the worst thing shes ever said to me.


I think she is using him as a tool or weapon to manipulate you or to create a certain dynamic in your relationship. Is there anything important in her history? Any traumas, any parental issues (mental illness, substance abuse, etc)?

Do you think your wife had any understanding of the damage her negative comment had? Do you think she did it intentionally? Does she have empathy?



Mrinsensitive said:


> Fast fwd to 4 days ago. I m on our computer and look up history to re visit a page that I was looking at for a part for my Bow. I see in addition to my pages is a Facebook page containing the visited page of MY Wife's Ex's wife and him. I let one day lapse and see that *that days history is erased*.


So we have a continuation of her interest in this guy and his life. She had brought him up with you prior to the neighbors incident, then 3 years ago there was the neighbors incident, and now she is looking him up. This seems like a pattern of continued curiosity on her part.

Deleting the computer history says that she knew you would be upset. We can't know what she was really thinking when looking him up, but we know she understands it crossed some kind of lines.



Mrinsensitive said:


> She lied and said she didn't know then about 5 minutes later told me the truth.


Her lying is yet another confirmation she knows she is crossing lines of some sort.



Mrinsensitive said:


> She PROMISED me she would do nothing of the sort a year ago when we both logged on to FB. So I was Ok with it.


And she did not forget her promise. It was intentional on her part to break her promise and to do something she knows you will not like.




Mrinsensitive said:


> My question is Am I wrong fro feeling betrayed and angry? Should I as many of her friends husbands just "be mature and accept it" ?


No, I don't think you are wrong to feel betrayed. She has betrayed your trust, and she seems to be thinking about another man.

Do you have access to her email? If so, you should check it. Look at all the folders. Look on her cell phone if she has a smart phone. Look in all the email folders on the phone, because it may have un-deleted stuff there.

I agree it is time to put a keylogger on the computer. Do some research, don't mess up the installation. Then watch for a week what she is doing online.

My guess is she has unresolved feelings for this guy. It doesn't mean she is thinking of leaving. It is, though, leaking energy out of your marriage when she gives energy to someone else. And, of course, it angers you, which is not helpful.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

OK

I look forward to reading your further thoughts on the other thread. I'll read them once I've come back from town.

A final comment I would like to make is that I just can-not understand why men are so easy to attract and easy to control. It's path-e-tic !

The ones who think they are players are among the ones who sadden me most. Do they not realise that giving up sex so easily puts them in the disposable category? Maybe that's why they jump ship first, because one can't make an illusion of manliness last.

Modern men sacrifice anything to keep women. I would like to say that I benefit from this, but I don't. With so many men walking over hot coals to show their brief encounters a good time, paying for everything, sucking up and pumping iron, women don't have time for real men. By the time they get to me, they're often spoilt and bitter about 'men'. This alpha stuff gets right up my nostril, because it means things can only get worse each time I start over...  eventually, well, probably about now, as my looks are fading, I'll have to start sucking up... but then I think - I'd rather be alone than a wimp !


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

I have to go to work in an hour I ll reply to some of the responses today or tomorrow. Thanks for reading them and taking time to give your opinion.
MrInsensitive


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> This will be a longer post so thanks for staying with me and commenting as I don't have any friends or family Id be comfortable with explaining this to.
> 
> I've been with my wife for 19 years and married for 11. We have both as far as I know been very faithful. I want to describe myself a little too...I believe when you marry someone you commit 100%. You leave your past ..in your past. I roll this way as I think it very disrespectful to the other person to keep bringing up old flames.
> 
> ...


Update:


To add a little bit of history in to this...My wife and I started dating 19 years ago. The referred to "Ex" dated her for 4 years cheated on her and I think? that was the reason they broke up? (I would hope SO)
Now when we first started dating for some reason she took his call a few months in so he could apologize...She told me and again I was irritated to the point where I thought it might be a deal breaker and some "frontier justice" might come to order. Also the first time I "caught" her talking about him at the neighbors(3 years ago) I was very upset and let her know my thoughts on the issue. For the record I never spoke nor cared to speak to anyone about any of my Exes whether she knew the people or not. One of my former flames lived in the same area we live in now... 


Since I caught her looking up her Exes wife and his page she has since deleted (permanently) her Facebook account and told me she was only curious as to what "she " looked like. I said if you're curious you still have some type of interest in this scum. She claims she will never do something like this again. I believe if I caught you twice you've probably done it many times unbeknownst to me. I have been told that most of her friends' husbands are or would be OK with their wives doing things of this sort, I've been called immature,extreme and ridiculous for not wanting my wife to keep bringing up her past. I think is wrong to do while dating let alone in a marriage. and for the simple fact I've never done it out of respect for her and her feelings.

My question is should I still be suspicious or let it go? Insecurity is another word for vigilance. I come from a household where my parents cheated on ea. other after 20 plus years of marriage soooo.. I may be little overly protective of my own marriage.

Thanks again for the input....

Mrinsensitive


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think she should be a little more sensitive to how it makes you feel. You aren't really asking for that much; stop talking about your ex, sounds easy to me. Why are all these other ppl getting involved anyway? If you or your wife are asking everyone you know their opinion on your disagreements, you both need to stop. Anonymously or to a MC might help, but airing your dirty laundry to all and sundry is a mistake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

My thought is to let it go. She might be curious and looking but that doesn't mean she wants to reconnect.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

Not sure what I m going to do I wish there was a way to make her feel as I do about something I did or will do...I have to do something though...just on principle. The fact that she used OUR computer makes it worse. This is a computer I went out and bought for OUR family. This was not for her to use to check up on her past. The least she couldve done was keep it from me if she couldnt control herself. The other part is if I hadn't snooped I would ve never known....Also a betrayal of my trust...I also provide a cell phone (Thank God its not a smart phone) whats next her calling his cousin and asking about if his marriage is strong? To see if she can "reconnect with a "friend"?

These are the questions that torture me....I guess it was worth it to her to do this...The satisfaction or "curiosity" was worth the grief and problems it caused.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Theseus said:


> It's ridiculous to insist someone can't get a FB page because they might look up old flames. Of course they will look them up. People are naturally curious. But that's normal, it's not cheating, and there is nothing wrong with it.


My thoughts, too. If my husband told me I couldn't look up my ex, I would do it - on purpose.

Now, if I then started communicating with said ex, he'd have a right to be upset.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> Not sure what I m going to do I wish there was a way to make her feel as I do about something I did or will do...I have to do something though...just on principle.


Let me get this straight - you're figuring out a way to punish your wife - because she typed in a guy's name and hit enter? Good lord, what would you do if she actually contacted him? Chop her hands off?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Mrinsensitive said:


> Not sure what I m going to do I wish there was a way to make her feel as I do about something I did or will do...I have to do something though...just on principle. The fact that she used OUR computer makes it worse. This is a computer I went out and bought for OUR family. This was not for her to use to check up on her past.


I think I understand how you are feeling. I've been through some similar stuff with my wife over the years related to her exes, and one ex in particular. The repetition of the events is the problem for me. It isn't one mention once over many years, it seems to be easy for her to remember an ex.

Where I think you are going very wrong is applying your thoughts and assumptions to her. You don't know what she is thinking. And, you are thinking "*I* would never do that", or "If I did that it would be because _______". The truth is she has her own thoughts and feelings about every aspect of what she did. And it is different than what your thoughts would be. So don't apply your values to what she is doing.

My wife has little difficulty bringing up an ex. We'd be with our kids on the boardwalk and she'd blurt out about one of her exes who would win her stuffed animals at the arcade games. It pissed me off big time, because I know that they had sex under that boardwalk numerous times, and all kinds of other things related to her trips to the beach with him. In her mind though she may have only been remembering the arcade game. Idk. It still pains me though. So yes I understand your anguish. But you may be attaching some meanings which were not there in her mind.

Still, your wife is lacking empathy about how this bugs you.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

Exactly, I have a more "diverse" past than my wife does...I wouldn't bring it up even when she asked only if she prodded and insisted would I even speak about it. 

I m not out to punish my wife any more than the mental torture she insists on putting me through by her bringing her Ex up time and time again. She has told me intimate details of their sexual past,compared me to him and given me much more information about this guy than I would ever want to know. Details believe me I wish I would've never heard.

I just find it totally disrespectful to marry a guy you chose(supposedly over your Ex), allow the guy to support you, share finances have kids,build a life together etc..and then keep exposing you to her thoughts about her ex and his wife. I would nt do this to someone I was dating let alone the person I married and had kids with. When did everyone become so accepting of people not letting go of their past relationships? Seems as though many dont care. I guess it expalins why so many divorce .... 



SOOO my question is do you think she does this on purpose?


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> Not sure what I m going to do I wish there was a way to make her feel as I do about something I did or will do...I have to do something though...just on principle. The fact that she used OUR computer makes it worse. This is a computer I went out and bought for OUR family. This was not for her to use to check up on her past. The least she couldve done was keep it from me if she couldnt control herself. The other part is if I hadn't snooped I would ve never known....Also a betrayal of my trust...I also provide a cell phone (Thank God its not a smart phone) whats next her calling his cousin and asking about if his marriage is strong? To see if she can "reconnect with a "friend"?
> 
> These are the questions that torture me....I guess it was worth it to her to do this...The satisfaction or "curiosity" was worth the grief and problems it caused.


You should smash the computer to pieces it's useless now.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> ...
> 
> ... bringing her Ex up time and time again. She has told me intimate details of their sexual past,compared me to him and given me much more information about this guy than I would ever want to know. Details believe me I wish I would've never heard.
> 
> ...


Wrong question... Everything a woman says is on purpose. The question is not if there is a goal, but rather, what is the goal? 

You can take the lead in promoting a tactful constructive tone. If she doesn't respond with tact, and you try it a few times, you've got your answer - its just manipulation.

Just my impression. I am not a registered psychiatrist. I wonder what the women think? They're the ones to listen to as to 'why', then some guys can maybe say 'how'.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> SOOO my question is do you think she does this on purpose?


I'm taking what you are saying as an incomplete representation because for one thing if a wife is talking about a previous lover then a person who finds that as revolting as you say would be cutting her off instead of listening to all the gory details. 

The number of incidents listed in nineteen years comes down to less than you can count on one hand, which makes it about once in every couple of thousand days, not once a week or even once a year. So this is hardly a weapon she is wielding with any kind of regularity and points to you being hypersensitive.

I have a lot of fun talking to my wife about how big one of her previous lover's organ was and pretending to be upset by it. Or pretending to orgasm the way another one of them did, which was pretty funny. This kind of confidence is attractive to a woman whereas your hypersensitivity counts against you and is the very thing that opens you up to attack on this flank. 

People are capable of overcoming weaknesses through determination and grit. Dwelling on the pain and anguish on the other hand just amplifies the weakness.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

GP I see your in an "open" relationship. Much different than a marriage IMO that relationship should be "closed"


Open Relationships are for those that have almost no boundaries. 

Marriage is something that I (think!!?) still means you commit to 1 person??? not 10 or more LOL The details she discussed with me were when we started dating and I didn't really say it bothered me because I didn't want to drive her off or maybe since we were just dating with less to lose I accepted it for the reward of dating her but I just may be old school I don't think its cool to discuss someone else while your with another...how is that fair to the other person? Whats the point ? To create jealousy? To show you are replaceable? I just dont get why you cant commit 100% to your spouse and forget your past? I did. No she hasn't talked about it front of me that often but what about behind my back? I don't nor care to talk about any of the ladies I "dated" to her or behind her back. Even though she claims she wouldn't care. I don't do it out of respect and love for the one I married...Guess I m confused ? LOL


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> The details she discussed with me were when we started dating and I didn't really say it bothered me because I didn't want to drive her off


Thanks for sharing that because it demonstrates you knew this hypersensitivity would drive women away from you. But it also means you misrepresented yourself because instead of making it permanent you just hid it from her until after marriage. 

What you need to do now is buck up like you did before, and for exactly the same reason: it will drive her away from you. 



> Open Relationships are for those that have almost no boundaries.


No, that's just defensive diversionary twaddle. I'm not interested in a pissing match with you. I would genuinely like to see you recover from this and have a healthy marriage. Being on your team means building on your strengths and eliminating your weaknesses.

Go team.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

I don't THINK there was any contact as she was looking at his wifes page that they share. (From what it looks like) Anyway I guess I ll have to join the 1000s that don't care or accept that their wife wants to be married for the financial benefits,relationship security and act (to a degree ) single by maintaining ( all be it with a computer) a handle on the lives of their Exes....wish I would ve known this years ago ....doesnt seem fair


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Abre los oidos, hombre


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Sandfly said:


> Abre los oidos, hombre


That could be a theme song here, lol.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> GP I see your in an "open" relationship. Much different than a marriage IMO that relationship should be "closed"
> 
> 
> Open Relationships are for those that have almost no boundaries.
> ...


Sounds like she has some unresolved issues with the ex, feelings, etc. She just is not mentally or emotionally done with him.

If she could trust you enough to talk about it, she would. But you have not earned her trust. I am sure she would love to come to you, but she feels she can't. 

If you could become more secure, I think she would respond very differently to you. She would realize what a valuable guy she has right in her very own home.

I wish you could hear what I am saying. I am afraid right now you can only hear the voices of fear in your mind. 

If and when you can become secure, this will all change. If you do not face your insecurity, nothing will change.

And trying to control other people just does not work, not really, not on the inside.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Mr. Insensitive: I think you're BOTH at fault!

*YOU *are overly-sensitive. I know you don't "get" those other husbands you know who "just accept" this from their wives, but the reality from THE REST OF US who have no horse in this race is that YOU are incredibly insecure and unrealistic!

You SERIOUSLY expect your wife to never talk about any guy she's ever dated before...ever...not even to her girlfriends...not even when reminiscing about prom...not even regarding 'yeah, we used to go there on Friday nights, too; they had an AWESOME house-band'. Seriously? that is some effed-up insecurity on YOUR part! It's like you'd be happy if she got a lobotomy and 'forgot' her entire life before she met you. Well, guess what? Everything she lived through and experienced BEFORE she met you made her the woman you met and fell in love with and married: good, bad, and ugly!

You were angry when your then-girlfriend accepted a call from her cheating ex-bf who called to apologize for cheating on her. I think that was MATURE of her. You, naturally, assumed he was trying to sweet-talk his way back into her pants. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. Without any compelling evidence that he WAS, why not just ASSUME he had a change of conscience, actually apologized for being a jack-hole, moved on with his life, and your then-gf was a mature adult who moved on with hers.

I think your cheating parents' effed-up marriage has REALLY screwed with your mind and you see 'cheating' or 'potential cheating' EVERYWHERE. Reminds me of Tartuffe, (play by Moliere) the religious zealot, who sees 'sin' everywhere! You see 'potential cheating' everywhere.

*YOUR WIFE* may have been rude and immature to compare you negatively to him. Stop and think about the context of that (we don't know it, we only have YOUR version of it). Was it sexual in nature? If so, INEXCUSABLE! Was it personality-related (more laid-back, not so suspicious)? If so, then maybe there is some TRUTH in it that you ought to humbly acknowledge and work on. Was it physical in nature (taller, stronger, more muscles, better looking)? If so, INEXCUSABLE! Was it done in the heat-of-the-moment? In anger? In the midst of an argument? If so, take it with a grain of salt.

Without knowing "WHY" your w is bringing up her ex-bf when speaking to others at a party/get-together it's hard to judge. I can think of DOZENS of reasons 'why' she might bring him up in a conversation: talking about the same career he's in (maybe they have mutual work-associates), talking about a university (maybe he went there), talking about a breed of dog (he or his family owned/bred them), nationality (my ex's family is also Lithuanian/Hmong/Icelandic). I mean, really, there are LOTS of reasons 'why' she might be talking about a subject and bring up her ex-bf...it's a way to share in a conversation with other people you're getting to know.

Now, if they're talking about sex, or being wild, or other inappropriate things, then, yeah, I can totally comprehend your POV. If this is the case, she needs some Individualized Counseling to learn to set better boundaries, behave more appropriately/respectfully, find the root cause of what she's trying to prove.

I think that short-term Individualized Counseling would be good for YOU to learn to control your tendency to see EVERYTHING to do with other men as threatening. It would reduce YOUR personal stress levels and make your marriage less stressful, too.

With some serious commitment on BOTH YOUR PARTS to address this problem head-on, you could be in a much better place in just 8-9 months!

Good luck, Mr. Insensitive! I'm rooting for you! I just think you need to look at how much YOU contribute to the problem.


.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I m not out to punish my wife any more than the mental torture she insists on putting me through by her bringing her Ex up time and time again. She has told me intimate details of their sexual past,compared me to him and given me much more information about this guy than I would ever want to know. Details believe me I wish I would've never heard.


You didn't say before that she brings him up repeatedly, time and time again. How often IS this? Once a week? Once a year? Every 3 years? What frame of mind is she in at the time? Have you been arguing? Have you been criticizing her? Have you been Love Busting her? Is she wishing she'd married him because you misrepresented yourself and she now sees she doesn't like who she's married to? Lots of data we don't have.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

turnera said:


> Let me get this straight - you're figuring out a way to punish your wife - because she typed in a guy's name and hit enter? Good lord, what would you do if she actually contacted him? Chop her hands off?


I think the issue is the FB lookup is just one of many instances of her keeping the old flame on her mind (and therefore on OP's mind). 19 years is one he'll of a long time to be thinking of an ex at any significant frequency. 

It is disrespectful and hurtful to him for her to maintain such high interest in the guy. And yeah......if she can't give this up he should 'punish' her. Perhaps him taking a 'tough action' is a better term but not much more than semantics. Whatever he would choose to do the objective should be to make clear to her, or remind her that she can be replaced. Isn't that how a guy is supposed to maintain his wife's "respect"? By not putting up with s h *t like this ??


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I think the issue is the FB lookup is just one of many instances of her keeping the old flame on her mind (and therefore on OP's mind). 19 years is one he'll of a long time to be thinking of an ex at any significant frequency.
> 
> It is disrespectful and hurtful to him for her to maintain such high interest in the guy. And yeah......if she can't give this up he should 'punish' her. Perhaps him taking a 'tough action' is a better term but not much more than semantics. Whatever he would choose to do the objective should be to make clear to her, or remind her that she can be replaced. Isn't that how a guy is supposed to maintain his wife's "respect"? By not putting up with s h *t like this ??


But there are better ways of dealing with it. He can ask himself why this bothers him. He can ask himself, and her, why she doesn't come to him with this info, and instead talks to other people about it. Instead of forbidding her from doing it, he can ask her what he could do so she would be comfortable coming to him.

I am just not impressed with how the OP is handling this. If I were the wife and I had a hangup with an ex, I would not go to him.

The OP could really be a leader here in helping his wife heal from a past relationship, but he cannot do it if he does not confront his own insecurity. Her behavior will not stop by his trying to control her.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Maybe she was just curious to see how his life turned out. I have occasionally looked up exes online. Not because I want to be with them but to see if there is anything online. Lol.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Maybe she was just curious to see how his life turned out. I have occasionally looked up exes online. Not because I want to be with them but to ee if there is anything online. Lol.


 As did I. And my ex was an abusive a$$hole I would NEVER consider going back to. I heard he got into legal trouble, so I looked him up to see if it was true. I heard he gained 200 pounds, so I looked him up to see if it was true. In no way was it because I wanted to rekindle old flames - I wanted to prove to myself I did right by leaving him.

Never was my marriage in danger. But if my H had turned it into WWIII for doing it, I would have continued to look, just to spite him for being a jerk.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Heck, I've looked up exes as well! Ones I liked and ones I couldn't stand. I think it's natural to be curious; at one time the person played an important part in your life. AT ONE TIME...not NOW! BIG DIFFERENCE.


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## Mistyfied (Sep 27, 2013)

I've looked up exes from nothing more than curiosity how their lives turned out. Where do they live? Do they have children? What job do they have? I won't do it again as I did it once and got my answers. My interest isn't limited to exes though. I'm interested in how people I've encountered from the past have got on (friends, significant acquaintances). When I've seen it, my thoughts have been nothing more than, "Oh, he did well for himself" or "Still needs to grow up". I do not add them as friends or contact them. If they were relevant to my present, they would still be in my life.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Heck, I've looked up exes as well! Ones I liked and ones I couldn't stand. I think it's natural to be curious; at one time the person played an important part in your life. AT ONE TIME...not NOW! BIG DIFFERENCE.


This also references your previous post on this thread. Read the big thread by poster hard to detach. Exes can be poison. You want all men to risk the odds? Say they are only 25 percent...

Respectfully of course. HTDs wife could have said just those of 'never been with an ex' eight months ago. Now... I suspect they are in R but she destroyed her marriage with an ex with unreconciled feelings. Yes full PA and HTD basically had to watch it go down in slow motion.

My wifes EA started as a lookup... Of an ex. At least i dont have mind movies.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

I think some posters here are not considering the full context of what OP has related to us. Sounds to me that looking up info online the least of her offenses. Talking with OP on sexual details of their relationship........details he said he wanted none of. Bringing the ex name up with others etc.

OP - have you talked to your wife recently about WHY she has kept this guy in the conversation for 19 years. Conversations with you and others. Forget the FB incident, confront her on the ENTIRE history of her thinking so much about this guy while being with you for 19 years.
Give her one last chance to explain to you, apologize and commit to stop talking about him....completely.

If she won't do this, then yes it is time for you to get tough with her. I think get tough means demonstrating to her what it feels like to be devalued. Only you can determine what exactly you do but..........give her some of your favorite details from your other relationships. I know what I would do in your situation - I would invest less love and emotion in my wife, while getting friendly with another woman, even just a bit. Then I'd be sure to bring up the woman's name with my wife. Maybe drop a line or two on her best qualities.

Only you know how to respond. The so-called 180 makes sense. You could read up on that. But for me a much more in-her-face response is justified....based on how long she has kept this guy on her mind while being married to you.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Clarification: If there is zero history of anything going on, looking is nothing. Its contacting.

My wife is forbidden any contact with the ex she had the EA with. She knows this. Even looking him up on FB would be a huge breach of trust. 

Sometimes you simply have to say, "Him or me. Your choice." My life is such a pos on all fronts ATM... It kind of makes me sort of fearless. Not exactly but words escape me ATM.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

I'm not as edicated as some of y'all here but...

To me it comes down to respect. You either respect your spouse or you don't. I see little respect towards the OP by his wife. 19 years gone by and she's still fishing for this guy. 

"Let it go lady". That's what I would tell her. 

If I had a wife and she asked me to stop leaving the toilet seat up, I would stop leaving the toilet seat up.

If she asked me to stop stealing her sanitary napkins to soak up oil spills in the garage, I would stop stealing them and go buy my own pack.

If she asked me to stop talking to my buddies about what a hot piece of azz in bed my ex-girlfriend was, I would stop. 

If she asked me to stop comparing her to how my ex-girlfriend was, I would stop and never, ever mention it again. 

If she asked me to stop asking old acquaintences about where my old girlfriend was and what she was up to I would stop doing that and never do it again. 

I would respect my wife enought to stop doing such things. It's called self control, and being considerate of the one you claim to love. 

The entitlement and hypocrisy some of you poster's are displaying makes me naseous. I wouldn't blame the OP if he decided not to come back.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

turnera said:


> You didn't say before that she brings him up repeatedly, time and time again. How often IS this? Once a week? Once a year? Every 3 years? What frame of mind is she in at the time? Have you been arguing? Have you been criticizing her? Have you been Love Busting her? Is she wishing she'd married him because you misrepresented yourself and she now sees she doesn't like who she's married to? Lots of data we don't have.


He changed his story.

The revised version was that the sexual details were before they married. He did not object because he figured she wouldn't marry him if he was honest.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

Gomerpyle said:


> He changed his story.
> 
> The revised version was that the sexual details were before they married. He did not object because he figured she wouldn't marry him if he was honest.



No revision just more detail and history... While early on we dated she divulged details of his and her relationship in a sexual nature- as she found out he was cheating in a way no woman wants to find out ...a way that can affect her health if you can read between the lines. 
I couldve convinced my self there was no type of sexual relationship if I tried hard enough BUT this confirmed what I never wanted to know....Sooo I dealt wit these unwanted details because I had not much invested in the relationship and didnt care as much. Also she never brought them up much after that. Well then maybe six months or so in she tells me he called her...and ...she actually spoke to him ...which set off an alarm. Why would anyone give a cheater the time of day ? If a girl did that to me I d NEVER want anything to do w her. In reality I think he thought she wouldn't meet someone and once she met me he wanted her back...just assuming now again or he wanted to make HIMSELF feel better by apologizing...either way I was angry and considered "frontier justice" but she assured me I was the choice and she had no interest in this scum

Soooo back to 3 yrs ago when I catch her trying to see if people that went to the same HS knew him I again feel as though for some reason she cannot let go...to a cheater (Hello?)

Now a week ago I find her again looking in (on again OUR computer )on this excuse for humanity. 

I just wonder and Ill never know...if he HADN'T been married would she try to contact him? as I said Ill never know... BUT I am wiser for it....

I've never talked about,checked up, looked for on FB or any of the other things women call curiosity about any Ex I ve had out of respect for my Wife again I don't think husbands should have to accept this although I will this last time...this last time.

To me you cant be 100% committed to your present if you bring up or talk about your past and again these are teh times I ve caught... I think if I ve caught you a few times youve been doing it all along ...like cheating.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> No revision just more detail and history...


I couldn't agree more. Detail that completely reverses the story from a wife that is abusive to a husband that concealed his jealousy before he married her.

Remember that being on your team does not mean supporting poor choices or behaviors. If you were an alcoholic I would tell you to stop drinking. 

Much like an alcoholic, the person with a problem spends all of his time explaining how evil other people are. But the only thing you can change is yourself. It is pretty easy to predict that if you divorce your wife that you will conceal this jealousy from the next woman too. 

Let's do an experiment. Please answer this question: do you think you have a problem with jealousy?


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

He sounds like a man wanting to protect his marriage. For 19 years he asked his wife to stop fishing for this particular man and she has repeatedly broken her promise not to.

Unlike some guys, who give their wives hall passes to go screw other men.

Its obvious OP's wife has unfinished business with the OM. So to allay all of you who are down on him, here's what he should do:

1) Contact the OM and set up a meet. Buy him a ticket and fly him in one weekend.

2) Take OM and wife to a hotel and pay for a room.

3) Tell his wife, "Wife... you have been carrying a torch for this guy or 19 years. I'm giving you a one night free hall pass to do whatever you want with this guy. Tomorrow either come home to me and never mention this sh!thead's name again, or don't come home tomorrow and you will have given me your answer. See, I don't want you to think I'm controlling or jealous. I want you to make peace with your past, get closure with this sh!thead you seem so hung up on, and move on forwards in life with me without looking back. Fvck him, yell at him, beat the sh!t out of him, or leave me for him. Just do something to end this with either him or me!" 

There... how do all of you like that idea?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

turnera said:


> As did I. And my ex was an abusive a$$hole I would NEVER consider going back to. I heard he got into legal trouble, so I looked him up to see if it was true. I heard he gained 200 pounds, so I looked him up to see if it was true. In no way was it because I wanted to rekindle old flames - I wanted to prove to myself I did right by leaving him.
> 
> Never was my marriage in danger. But if my H had turned it into WWIII for doing it, I would have continued to look, just to spite him for being a jerk.


You never considered your marriage in danger, but maybe your husband would. Does his opinion count?

You need to understand that for some men, your behavior is a big deal, and you do not get to decide what a big deal is for someone else. And if his opinion on this didn't match yours and he considered it a big deal you'd continue to do it just to spite him? 

I've lost a lot of respect for you.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> For 19 years he asked his wife to stop fishing for this particular man and she has repeatedly broken her promise not to.


He said nothing of the kind. 

He referenced one promise: that if they joined Facebook (one year ago), she had to promise not to visit the pages of any old flames.

She was in the wrong, and deleted her Facebook account. 

This bait-and switch below is an ancient problem for marriages:



> The details she discussed with me were when we started dating and * I didn't really say it bothered me because I didn't want to drive her off*


He has also told her of his own past flames:



> only if she prodded and insisted would I even speak about it


So where is the person who claimed how disrespectful it was? The truth is he's done it himself, and admits there are times it isn't disrespectful at all. 

We also need to take pretty strong counsel from the friends that are close to him:




> I've been called immature,extreme and ridiculous


That's not mild criticism or mere difference of opinion. That is people who know the situation saying he is WAY out of line. 

We don't help this person by changing the story to one in which he relentlessly told her over the course of their whole relationship not to bring it up and she was in his face all the time with it. They'd have divorced years ago if that were the case.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If we follow your logic the the wife is an imbecile. Two people who spend 19 years of their lives together know each other intimately. Are you suggesting she forgot or was ignorant of the fact that even the mere mention of this ex boyfriend's name would anger her husband? Are you trying to convince us that just because he had not said anything to her about it for years that she would have forgotten it?

Nope. Not buying your argument.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> Why would anyone give a cheater the time of day ? If a girl did that to me I d NEVER want anything to do w her.


That's what YOU would do. Doesn't mean it's what your wife would do, or any other person.



Mrinsensitive said:


> Soooo back to 3 yrs ago when I catch her trying to see if people that went to the same HS knew him I again feel as though for some reason she cannot let go...to a cheater (Hello?)


Actually VERY COMMON, if you'll read other threads, you'll see that the cheating partner very often has a PROFOUND effect on the betrayed partner, for logical psychological reasons.



Mrinsensitive said:


> Now a week ago I find her again looking in (on again OUR computer )on this excuse for humanity.


Since it is 'OUR' computer, I take it you assume she has no rights other than to do what you want?



Mrinsensitive said:


> I've never talked about,checked up, looked for on FB or any of the other things women call curiosity about any Ex I ve had out of respect for my Wife again I don't think husbands should have to accept this although I will this last time...this last time.


Again, that is what YOU feel should happen. You have the right to be offended, but you don't have the right to tell her that she must make choices according to how YOU make them.



Mrinsensitive said:


> To me you cant be 100% committed to your present if you bring up or talk about your past


We'll just have to agree to disagree. My H and I quite easily talk about, and laugh about, our exes. My H often jokes about how he'd pick up this or that hot young girl, and I jokingly say go ahead, if she'll let some dirty old man pick her up. We trust each other, so we CAN talk about past lovers and acquaintances. I would guess that, just because you ARE so insecure and she KNOWS it, she will not be honest with you. She will look behind your back if she is curious (as most of us are), if she assumes you will react the way you ARE reacting. Just saying'.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nucking Futs said:


> You never considered your marriage in danger, but maybe your husband would. Does his opinion count?
> 
> You need to understand that for some men, your behavior is a big deal, and you do not get to decide what a big deal is for someone else. And if his opinion on this didn't match yours and he considered it a big deal you'd continue to do it just to spite him?
> 
> I've lost a lot of respect for you.


Well, MY behavior consisted of ONE man before my husband. I never contacted my ex-fiance in 35 years and I would never consider doing it, unless it was with my husband. 

BUT...

if my husband told me I was forbidden to contact my ex, YOU BET I would contact him. Just to show my husband I am a HUMAN BEING and not his property.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

BashfulBull said:


> For 19 years he asked his wife to stop fishing for this particular man


Huh? Show me where he said that.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Gomerpyle said:


> I couldn't agree more. Detail that completely reverses the story from a wife that is abusive to a husband that concealed his jealousy before he married her.
> 
> Remember that being on your team does not mean supporting poor choices or behaviors. If you were an alcoholic I would tell you to stop drinking.
> 
> ...


This has to be one of the worst posts I have read on this forum.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Gomerpyle said:


> I couldn't agree more. Detail that completely reverses the story from a wife that is abusive to a husband that concealed his jealousy before he married her.
> 
> Remember that being on your team does not mean supporting poor choices or behaviors. If you were an alcoholic I would tell you to stop drinking.
> 
> ...


 :smthumbup: One of the BEST posts on the forum!

OP sounds waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy overboard controlling with W walking around on eggshells deleting FB account and trying to avoid setting him off. OP's wife needs to grow a backbone and stop catering to his controlling abusive behavior.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

turnera said:


> Huh? Show me where he said that.


Why did he have to tell her? She knew. 

Unless she is a 'tard with a 75 IQ. 

Turnera are you telling me you don't know most if not all the things that set your husband off after all the years you have been with him?

Please.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We have no idea if she has ever even discussed her ex before this current spate of events. He hasn't said one way or the other.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Theseus said:


> Your description was a little hard to follow, but it looks like she created a FB page and used it to look up her ex and her ex's wife? Is that correct?
> 
> If that is all that happened, then I think you are overreacting and ruining Christmas is all on you. Are you seriously jealous simply because your wife looked at another man's FB page? Am I reading that right?
> 
> ...



:iagree:


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

I m pretty much done with this.. we resolved the problem....I will admit I m old school-Jealous yes NOT controlling but more ...whats the word? expect a different type of relationship in marriage than someone I just date or LOL have an open relationship with....

I expect and am 100% committed to my wife not my ex not my 10th ex neither of those women matter a hoot to me and I could care less about them or who they ended up with.

Today's society is super relaxed on what a marriage means- to me it means being totally committed and interested in your spouse. Looking up old flames ? Maybe you shouldve stayed with them IMO

Lastly a person in an open relationship commenting on someone in a closed one is like an alcoholic going to schools and telling kids you shouldn't drink...LOL NO CREDIBILITY


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## FLman (Nov 6, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I m pretty much done with this.. we resolved the problem....I will admit I m old school-Jealous yes NOT controlling but more ...whats the word? expect a different type of relationship in marriage than someone I just date or LOL have an open relationship with....
> 
> I expect and am 100% committed to my wife not my ex not my 10th ex neither of those women matter a hoot to me and I could care less about them or who they ended up with.
> 
> ...


Your not along, has nothing to do with being old fashioned, conservative or values, there are few reasons, a. your not giving what she needs (time, commitment, attention, love etc) and then that is the only way she knows how to act out, b. She just get bored. C. she is attention seeker and her mind wonders d. she wants a life boat to get out of her current life...have a heart to heart talk, spend time together, share her interest and I bet things will improve, if they don't she out of love and your out of luck and you have to trust your instincts...the worse feeling for guys are jealously and mistrust...its very damaging to the mind (and the marriage)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I m pretty much done with this.. we resolved the problem....I will admit I m old school-Jealous yes NOT controlling but more ...whats the word? expect a different type of relationship in marriage than someone I just date or LOL have an open relationship with....


Didn't like what you heard, huh? Well, good luck. Just remember us in 15 years when she tells you she's fed up with your insecurity and she's leaving. I hope it doesn't happen.

btw, fyi, just because most of us trust our spouses to LOOK UP - WHILE NOT CONTACTING - an old flame, it doesn't mean we have 'open relationships.'


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

turnera said:


> Didn't like what you heard, huh? Well, good luck. Just remember us in 15 years when she tells you she's fed up with your insecurity and she's leaving. I hope it doesn't happen.
> 
> btw, fyi, just because most of us trust our spouses to LOOK UP - WHILE NOT CONTACTING - an old flame, it doesn't mean we have 'open relationships.'


Ex's are ex's for a reason. *It's over.* It's the past. I can't imagine looking up an ex when I was with my stbxw. What for!? And I don't think that is some kind of Victorian era attitude either, I think it is completely normal. The very impulse to do so demonstrates that you are not 100% in the relationship. I would never do that to *ANY* woman who was my wife.

Yet again, another thread where a woman just does whatever she wants, and the sistahood get on board to justify it, and "shame" anyone who dares have a problem with her juvenile, self-centred actions. 

Imagine if it was a woman posting a thread about her husband looking up an ex-GF, asking friends and neighbours if they know her, hunting for news about her, clearly thinking about her, and a heap of men jumped all over the thread telling her she was a control freak and insanely jealous, and that it was all her fault because her jealously was CAUSING him to act in such an inappropriate fashion in pining almost openly for her.

I mean, not even on LSD can I imagine that happening, but here we are, with my own eyes I am reading women justifying this AND trying to shame the OP for being uncomfortable about the situation.

:rofl: Modern women, never again....

edit: And it is NOT just "curiosity" or whatever BS some woman above said, if so, why is it only the ONE particular ex she keeps searching, asking about, mentioning, etc.

OP is the "safe" betamale provider, and this "ex" is the man who pushed her buttons, gave her tingles, and who still has ownership of her inner woman to this day.

Same old tired story.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He didn't say she 'keeps' searching, asking, mentioning. You make it sound like she's been on this kick for years. As far as what he has told us, that's not the reality.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

turnera said:


> He didn't say she 'keeps' searching, asking, mentioning. You make it sound like she's been on this kick for years. As far as what he has told us, that's not the reality.


Like I said I f I caught her a few times I believe shes been doin it far more than this ...


The "open relationship" comment was directed at GomerPyle no one else.....I agree there is a double standard when it comes to what is acceptable for women to do in a marriage as opposed to men ..like looking up an Ex...for women is curiosity ..men -disrespect,potential affair etc etc. or insulting to their wives...

I read a stat that 25% of affairs start on FB that is why I was so adamant about me having access to her page...Insecure- maybe I like to think its vigilance- much like putting an alarm system on your car....safeguard against theft of worse. The only other marriage I ve been around was my parents and they divorced after 25 yrs of marriage so maybe that has bearing. 

I assured her if something like that happened again drastic action would be taken on my end. I do believe when you commit to a spouse if your hung up on an Ex your not 100% committed to your spouse. Really if all the women I dated (as brutal as this sounds) were on a plane together and it crashed I really wouldn't give it a second thought...that is my PAST and I have NO interest in it... I pressed her to see if shed admit she had a n interest in this excrement and she said she didint which I found hard to believe as curious and interest are almost the same word...

Lastly I hold my self to an ultra high standard in my marriage...I never dance w other women, look at other women, dont put myself in situations to meet other single or married women etc etc etc.. etc..I show my wife the utmost in respect....I only expect the same treatment....Did I act that way with others I dated ...no way the behavior and standards should be better and higher once you're married, If more husbands acted and expected this type of marriage I think thered be less divorce.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

You speak of your wife as if she is a possession (a car and you controlling her life is like an alarm system).

You speak of past GF's without a shred of compassion (they could all be killed in an airplane and you wouldn't care).

You detail how careful you are NEVER to have any contact with or even look at OW lest you fall into temptation.

My take is you are projecting your own weaknesses onto your wife. You would be weak if you looked up old FB flames. Just because you would be weak doesn't mean she is. 

Your relationship does not sound like "love" to me. Sounds like a relationship of fear.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> Like I said I f I caught her a few times I believe shes been doin it far more than this ...


A few times in what time period?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> there is a double standard when it comes to what is acceptable for women to do in a marriage as opposed to men ..like looking up an Ex...for women is curiosity ..men -disrespect,potential affair etc etc. or insulting to their wives...


No, there's not. Each marriage is individual and each couple agrees with what works for them. You are currently in the oh it happened stage and what now stage is starting. 

My DH has been in contact with exes over the years and I frankly couldn't care less. I know I'm the only person he wants and I'm confident enough to know that some random ex calling up to catch up doesn't mean he's going to run and screw her. He tells me everything, he has no locks on his phone or computer, he informs me when women hit on him, and looking up an ex wouldn't even be a blip on the radar for us.

What you're describing is how YOU feel; and you're projecting this onto everyone else.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Now, the erasing the history thing could potentially be something worth worrying about. OTOH, it COULD just be a proactive choice of hers to avoid what she knows is unreasonable insecurity and harshness on your part.

You say:


> I believe when you marry someone you commit 100%. You leave your past ..in your past. I roll this way as I think it very disrespectful to the other person to keep bringing up old flames.


That's great. For YOU. But just because it's how you see it doesn't mean it's how anyone else sees it, and to assume your wife must also see it that way is disrespectful on your part. She's a human being and allowed to have her own opinions.

Like I said, if she's searching and contacting, go ahead and make an issue out of it. If she's searching and just thinking about him - IIWY, I would consider it a big wakeup call to YOU that there is probably something about being married to you that makes her unhappy (like, maybe, insecurity or yelling at her?). If you really love her and want her to be happy and want her to be madly in love with you so much that everyone else pales in comparison...well, that only happens when you take a look at YOUR side of the marriage. So far, all you've done is gripe about HER side.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

My only question to you turnera is how is not being 100% committed to your marriage not a good thing ? How is it healthy for a marriage for one or both partners to be less than 100% committed?


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

Blonde said:


> You speak of your wife as if she is a possession (a car and you controlling her life is like an alarm system).
> 
> You speak of past GF's without a shred of compassion (they could all be killed in an airplane and you wouldn't care).
> 
> ...


I speak of exes in that tone to show- once I m gone or done with them I really don't care what they do, who they marry, what they look like etc etc ...once they are over they're over. 
Especially when I took a vow to love and respect my WIFE. not my wife and all of my exes.

I m in a job where there are new and attractive women around me all the time on a daily basis. I don't flirt , or socialize with them aside from a business conversation out of respect for my marriage and wife. I am a strong-minded person who doesn't believe things "just happen" as many cheaters use to defend infidelity. I don't put myself in "tempting" situations because I have no interest in being "tempted"

Again I hold myself to higher standard in a marriage than I do when just dating for any length of time and don't think talking about looking up, or passively inquiring about exes is respectful to your spouse. Women want it both ways...to have the freedom to still act as though they're single to a degree yet have a spouse go to support them and be 100% committed to them...I will never buy into this ...if you want to act as your single then don't pressure a guy to marry you after a certain amt of time dating...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> My only question to you turnera is how is not being 100% committed to your marriage not a good thing ? How is it healthy for a marriage for one or both partners to be less than 100% committed?


Your idea of 100% committed and mine diverge a lot. I've read many books that describe a healthy relationship one in which both parties are committed to each other but still have time for other parts of their lives. It sounds to me like you'd expect her to not have any outside interests, only you. 

And I've read many books that discuss being safe to talk to each other without fear of being persecuted or made to feel bad; doesn't sound like that's part of your situation, either. 

And I've read many books that describe needing to have a level of faith in each other unless proven otherwise, to be treated like adults, not children, who are afforded full respect and rights. Don't see that either. 

She's not a possession, she has a brain, and unless she's shown you that she's stepping out on you, she deserves to be allowed to decide for herself what 100% committed looks like. And if it includes looking up an old flame to see how he turned out but still spending every night with you, well, it sounds like she IS being committed. 

And all this is still not discussing what I've asked about - maybe she is thinking about her relationship with him because it's turning out that she liked it better than the one with you...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I speak of exes in that tone to show- once I m gone or done with them I really don't care what they do, who they marry, what they look like etc etc ...once they are over they're over.
> Especially when I took a vow to love and respect my WIFE. not my wife and all of my exes.


So...thinking of an ex is 'loving' him? Uh, ok.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Turnera, what do you think of them sitting down and deciding together what 100% committed would look like?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jld, it depends. MY sense is that he is so...manly that he has scared her off by now from ever being truly honest with him. That she tempers every conversation she has with him in fear of a negative (or scary) reaction. That she brings up exes in social settings because she would never DARE do so in private, hoping that someone will side with her. I may be off, but I'm usually really good a reading between the lines by how a poster writes. I think it's too late to expect her to discuss this honestly with him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I hear you, turnera, and I respect your insights.

I don't think the OP understands the truths you are telling about his wife. I think we would all like his wife to feel safe in coming to him with the truth about things, but I don't think the OP understands how to make her feel safe, nor the importance of it. He just keeps deciding for both of them what is "right" and how things should be handled. But he has no way of enforcing that. And so he is stuck.

Trying to understand her and speak to her need to feel safe could fix the solution, but I don't know how to get that across to the OP.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Mrinsensitive said:


> My only question to you turnera is how is not being 100% committed to your marriage not a good thing ? How is it healthy for a marriage for one or both partners to be less than 100% committed?


Looking up past friends (men and women) is NOT unhealthy! Unless every break-up from your past was the 'die, b*tch, I hate you anyway' variety of break-up I would assume that some of the people you dated in the past were nice people who were just not the right fit with you long-term. If so, looking them up and saying, 'She finally got her PhD, good for her!' or 'Looks like she married a nice guy and they have a couple of grown kids...that's nice' is NOT being UNCOMMITTED to your marriage.

BTW: YOUR definition of being "committed" to your partner would be MY definition of "smothering" your partner. Each to his/her own! And I have no doubt that* some of the men here would agree with me *since not everyone who disagreed with you was a woman!

You're making it sound like it's a MEN=MrInsensitive's side, WOMEN=opposed to MrInsensitive. I read the whole thread, it is NOT split strictly along gender lines.

Hope you and your wife have happiness and resolve this in 2014!


.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

I have no interest in her Ex,how she feels about him,who he married if he has kids etc etc .- or her feelings toward him ..I really wish I didn't know anything about the carrier...(yes he was unfaithful to her and gave her something no woman wants to get as a result of a boyfriends infidelity.) This too I wish I didn't know. To me he is excrement and for the life of me I can NEVER understand why anyone would give someone like that the time of day-let alone take their phone call while we were dating or look up his wife and HIM on FB. I ll never understand several things about women(my wife included)....Again I feel when you get MARRIED you forget about all of that...with me you shouldn't have it both ways unless your in an open or dating style relationship where your commitment is not as strong.

1. Why many women cant let go of people who treat them badly even when married.

2. Why some expose your "presents" to your "pasts"?- to create jealousy or let the present guy your dating or married to know as a lady (your in demand or sought after ) so the present guy dating or married to you treats you better?

3. Why women expect a guy to marry them in the first place.She pushed for the marriage I would ve probably eventually married her but I was in no hurry...to me if your that concerned and it matters that much then be 100% committed- if your talking about exes looking them up etc. your not 100% committed to the guy YOU wanted to marry you so much. 

Anyone who tolerates this type of behavior does so because they have to.or makes up reasons- psycological or otherwise to justify it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MrI, 

I am one of those who is on your side. I would think seriously about ending this thread as you will get no sympathy from most of the female posters on this site. 

Establish your boundaries and stick to them. You cannot control her so don't try. If she is not respectful of those boundaries, then move on and do what you need to do. 

Understand however, that if you end up divorcing her over this, you will have a hard time finding another woman with the old fashioned values you cherish. Such a woman is almost extinct. 

Just be aware of that.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I agree with both SlowlyGettingWiser's last post and MrInsensitive's last post. I think the two posts are talking about different ends of the spectrum.

Yes, I've looked at the social pages of some people I've known including an ex-gf. She was a good person and her parents were first class and treated me well. I was pleased to see she has apparently had a good family life the last 30 years. There is simply zero chance of me ever having a romantic interest in her. I have much more interest in seeing how other friends have done, tbh.

On the other hand, if there is unfinished business with an ex, there is no good reason to be looking them up. We see the fallout on this forum all the time.

If the couple has agreed to certain boundaries wrt social media then any infraction is wrong no matter the underlying emotions or reasons for looking up the ex. If there is unfinished business then it becomes an infidelity to cross those boundaries.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I have no interest in her Ex,how she feels about him,who he married if he has kids etc etc .- or her feelings toward him ..I really wish I didn't know anything about the carrier...(yes he was unfaithful to her and gave her something no woman wants to get as a result of a boyfriends infidelity.) This too I wish I didn't know. To me he is excrement and for the life of me I can NEVER understand why anyone would give someone like that the time of day-let alone take their phone call while we were dating or look up his wife and HIM on FB. I ll never understand several things about women(my wife included)....Again I feel when you get MARRIED you forget about all of that...with me you shouldn't have it both ways unless your in an open or dating style relationship where your commitment is not as strong.
> 
> 1. Why many women cant let go of people who treat them badly even when married.
> 
> ...


Again, this is ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT OR THINK. You haven't even mentioned what your wife wants or thinks, aside from saying publicly that her ex was better at this or that than you are. She doesn't sound very happy with you, to me.

So guess what happens when you continue to ignore what makes HER happy, and insist she does what makes YOU happy?

SHE LEAVES YOU. (or cheats)


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

It's not his job to make her happy. Happiness is a personal choice. You either choose to be happy or you don't. Any man who tries to make his wife happy is doomed to fail.

It's is his job to be faithful to her, be emotionally available, be supportive both financially and emotionally, be kind to her , be romantic and take her out on dates once in a while, be helpful to her, be equitable, be protective, stay in reasonable shape... the list goes on. He knows what his responsibilities are. 

Not his job to make her happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

turnera said:


> Again, this is ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT OR THINK. You haven't even mentioned what your wife wants or thinks, aside from saying publicly that her ex was better at this or that than you are. She doesn't sound very happy with you, to me.
> 
> So guess what happens when you continue to ignore what makes HER happy, and insist she does what makes YOU happy?
> 
> SHE LEAVES YOU. (or cheats)


Is this a one way street? She's doing something that makes him unhappy. Is it only on him to make her happy or should she be in danger of him leaving her (or cheating) if she continues?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> *I have no interest* in her Ex,how she feels about him,
> for the life of me *I can NEVER understand why* anyone would give someone like that the time of day-let alone take their phone call while we were dating or look up his wife and HIM on FB.
> *I'll never understand* several things about women(my wife included)....*Again I feel* when you get MARRIED you forget about all of that...*with me you shouldn't have it both ways unless your in an open or dating style relationship* where *your commitment is not as strong*.


Again, you are not listening. We are FINE with YOU having these opinions or feelings. They're yours and you're entitled to them.

But they are YOURS and not your wife's. I don't see you talking about how you changed how YOU felt, believed, or acted, based on what your wife believes. So why does SHE have to toe YOUR line?

A real marriage would include the two of you sitting down and LISTENING to each other's feelings and thoughts, and honestly trying to see the other's way. And then wondering if there's anything YOU need to do to make the marriage better for your partner, as she would do the same if you were offering her this.



Mrinsensitive said:


> Anyone who tolerates this type of behavior does so because they have to.or makes up reasons- psycological or otherwise to justify it.


 :rofl:

Ok, right. Come back in 5 years when she got tired of your belief that she must follow YOUR beliefs.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nucking Futs said:


> Is this a one way street? She's doing something that makes him unhappy. Is it only on him to make her happy or should she be in danger of him leaving her (or cheating) if she continues?


Of course not. 

But if he wants something, he has a MUCH better chance of getting it from her if he stops preaching what HE believes and what HE thinks should be, and shuts up and actually LISTENS to his wife. He's already said that she criticizes him in public settings and thinks about her ex. You think she's gonna care by now what he thinks, unless he considers changing his approach?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> It's not his job to make her happy. Happiness is a personal choice. You either choose to be happy or you don't. Any man who tries to make his wife happy is doomed to fail.
> 
> It's is his job to be faithful to her, be emotionally available, be supportive both financially and emotionally, be kind to her , be romantic and take her out on dates once in a while, be helpful to her, be equitable, be protective, stay in reasonable shape... the list goes on. He knows what his responsibilities are.
> 
> Not his job to make her happy.


It IS his job to care about what DOES make her happy. It IS his job to know what his Love Busters against her are and stop doing them. If he wants to stay married, that is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nucking Futs said:


> Is this a one way street? She's doing something that makes him unhappy. Is it only on him to make her happy or should she be in danger of him leaving her (or cheating) if she continues?


Well, hopefully, it's a two-way street. IMO, at this point with her feelings about him the way they seem to be, HE is the one who should be in danger of being left.

And hopefully, he'll sit on this and think about it, and ASK himself what is it about her life right now that's got her asking about the ex, and criticizing her husband, and looking up the ex. None of those would be happening if they were having a great marriage. And going off the little information he's given, HE is the one with a rigid, it must be this way attitude and if it's not then SHE is wrong or bad or harmful. Where's the middle ground?


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

This is one of many reasons I don't have a Facebook.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

turnera said:


> It IS his job to care about what DOES make her happy. It IS his job to know what his Love Busters against her are and stop doing them. If he wants to stay married, that is.


To that extent absolutely.

But there is nothing in his posts that would indicate he neglects her or ignores her needs. 

As for Love Busters, its a good idea, but they both would have to buy into it and the question is "would she?"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, they don't both have to buy into it. He can do what he knows is right.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Looking up past friends (men and women) is NOT unhealthy! Unless every break-up from your past was the 'die, b*tch, I hate you anyway' variety of break-up I would assume that some of the people you dated in the past were nice people who were just not the right fit with you long-term. If so, looking them up and saying, 'She finally got her PhD, good for her!' or 'Looks like she married a nice guy and they have a couple of grown kids...that's nice' is NOT being UNCOMMITTED to your marriage.
> 
> BTW: YOUR definition of being "committed" to your partner would be MY definition of "smothering" your partner. Each to his/her own! And I have no doubt that* some of the men here would agree with me *since not everyone who disagreed with you was a woman!
> 
> ...


LOL I would have not AS much a problem (still I d want to know who she was getting "friendly" with) if she looked up "friends" that she had no "dating " relationship with ..... I consider her very pretty. I don't believe any male "friend " that she had unless gay were interested in just being a "friend" esp. an Ex!!...Heck Biz Markie made a classic song about it...I actually dont consider my self smothering I dont really care if she goes out I -just dont think she should act as though she were single as some of her married friends act IMO. If you wanted to remain single there should ve been no marriage- just a strong long term relationship.

Many marriages fail IMO because a partner takes advantage of their partners liberal views of commitment. Bill Clinton is a perfect example of this. I m sure Hillary was OK with Monica as a friend .....at first. 

Well see things will get better Im sure ...but Ill never buy into it being healthy to look up old flames...esp on social media where you can hide so much from your "non smothering " spouse...


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

Quant said:


> This is one of many reasons I don't have a Facebook.


FB has been proven to make it MUCH easier to cheat thats why I insisted on having full access to each others pages once she wanted to sign up...I really couldnt care less about FB..


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

turnera said:


> Again, this is ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT OR THINK. You haven't even mentioned what your wife wants or thinks, aside from saying publicly that her ex was better at this or that than you are. She doesn't sound very happy with you, to me.
> 
> So guess what happens when you continue to ignore what makes HER happy, and insist she does what makes YOU happy?
> 
> SHE LEAVES YOU. (or cheats)


Turnera,

We talked about this b4 we even got serious or married for that matter. I said I had no interest in having someone who was interested in reliving their past with me. I couldve found any number of women to date that did that...if that makes her happy I guess Ill take my chances in the future but stand on principle and not tolerate what I consider uncommitted behavior in our marriage. She has to be somewhat happy to stay w me for 20 years...(I would hope) 

Whats ironic is the EX-crement she looked up acted very "uncommitted" in their unhealthy(I think ) relationship...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> Turnera,
> 
> We talked about this b4 we even got serious or married for that matter. *I said I had no interest* in having someone who was interested in reliving their past with me. *I could've found* any number of women to date that did that...if that makes her happy I guess Ill take my chances in the future but stand on principle and *not tolerate what I consider *uncommitted behavior in our marriage. She has to be somewhat happy to stay w me for 20 years...(I would hope)


Again, what YOU want, what YOU believe. And you 'hope' she is happy. Yet you aren't asking her. Have you?

Big hint: people don't always just tell you what they're thinking. Sometimes they stew in resentment, and it bubbles over into conversations like your wife is now doing, and then they either cheat or leave. Not saying she will, but you spend a LOT of time saying what YOU want and little time questioning what SHE wants. That's the fastest path to a WAW.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Mrinsensitive, is this a deal breaker for you? Will you end your marriage if she continues?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Mr. Insensitive,

How did you pick the screen name? Just curious...


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

Blonde said:


> Mr. Insensitive,
> 
> How did you pick the screen name? Just curious...


Sorry I'm not a TAM pro what is a WAW?

LOL I've been called somewhat insensitive to certain things...or not soft enough..I usually call things black or white. This being a deal-breaker not sure BUT...when I vowed to get married I vowed unless she cheated or went crazy I wouldn't be the one to break the marriage or relationship. Tunera I am very accommodating to her needs I really don't have a problem with 95% of what my wife does or what I know she does ...but sharing our relationship or still having part of her in a past relationship I will never tolerate from a wife . A girlfriend maybe for a while but never a wife..


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> Sorry I'm not a TAM pro what is a WAW?
> 
> LOL I've been called somewhat insensitive to certain things...or not soft enough..I usually call things black or white. *This being a deal-breaker not sure *BUT...when I vowed to get married I vowed unless she cheated or went crazy I wouldn't be the one to break the marriage or relationship. Tunera I am very accommodating to her needs I really don't have a problem with 95% of what my wife does or what I know she does ...but sharing our relationship or still having part of her in a past relationship I will never tolerate from a wife . A girlfriend maybe for a while but never a wife..


Are you sure your wife understands how seriously you take this? Deal breakers don't have to make sense to everyone, if it's a big enough deal to you to end the marriage then that's that. I think you do owe it to your wife to make sure she understands what path she's walking down so she can decide if her curiosity about her ex is more important than the marriage.

Looking at Turnera's posts on this thread, it seems if she were married to you she'd be willing to end the marriage over this. Your wife may feel the same way, but I doubt most people would chose idle curiosity over their marriage. Just be prepared for that possibility.

If you give it some more thought and decide that this is not worth ending your marriage over, drop it totally. If it's not that important to you it's not something to beat your wife down about either.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, I would NOT end the marriage over this. I might, however, end it over the WAY IN WHICH Mr. Insensitive is handling this.

If my H told me something I was doing was bothering him and making him feel bad, I'd stop it in an instant. Unless it was something like working or speaking to male coworkers for work purposes, which would be impractical.

However, if my H told me *his* wife _WILL NOT CONTACT OR EVEN THINK ABOUT an old flame, by God_...well, guess what?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

turnera said:


> No, I would NOT end the marriage over this. I might, however, end it over the WAY IN WHICH Mr. Insensitive is handling this.
> 
> *If my H told me something I was doing was bothering him and making him feel bad, I'd stop it in an instant.* Unless it was something like working or speaking to male coworkers for work purposes, which would be impractical.
> 
> However, if my H told me *his* wife _WILL NOT CONTACT OR EVEN THINK ABOUT an old flame, by God_...well, guess what?


So your problem with Mrinsensitive is not so much that he has a problem with his wife doing this, you have a problem with the way he talked to her about it? If he had told her that she was hurting him by looking up her ex you'd be on his side in this thread?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yep.

Well, that, and his attitude that because HE wants it a certain way, he expects HER to want it that way. If he feels so adamant that HIS way is the only right way to be about this, how much does he apply this to every OTHER aspect of their marriage?

I seriously ask this because I am married to such a man. I believe he has the 'Right Man Syndrome,' wherein he's incapable of understanding - or caring - that other people can have a similarly valid viewpoint. And the offshoot of that is, in what way does he carry through with that 'opinion?' Does he invalidate anything she does because it doesn't match HIS view? Does he just ignore her thoughts because they aren't his? Does he apply this self-described lack of sensitivity to the rest of their relationship? Just how fed up IS she, if so?

He's admitted that she's said - to others - that her ex had it right in some aspects over what Mr. Insensitive does/believes/say, whatever it is. If she's saying it out loud to people, if she's now thinking of ex or looking him up, psychologically speaking it's a fair bet she's questioning her choice. And that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with who SHE is; IMO, it's more likely a result of everything I've described above.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

turnera said:


> Yep.
> 
> Well, that, and his attitude that because HE wants it a certain way, he expects HER to want it that way. If he feels so adamant that HIS way is the only right way to be about this, how much does he apply this to every OTHER aspect of their marriage?
> 
> ...



I don't apply this type of thinking to any other aspects of our marriage. I always listen to her viewpoint except when she thinks its ok to look up an Ex crement or bring him up. I have a zero tolerance for an Ex crement in our marriage. Again marriage isn't merely dating,its not just a long term relationship its....marriage. You don't vow to have and hold an Ex-crement your wife or husband for that matter has dated in their supposed pasts in addition to your wife or husband.

If I said she admitted the Ex crement has done things better than I have in their "past" to others you misunderstood...she only expressed this to me (that I'm aware of) and only in an argument. 

Really I'm pretty easy to be married to aside from this issue and her thinking hetero. guys want to be "friends". I m pretty easy. I don't believe any guy wants to be a friend to my wife ...I believe these so called friends would turn into a "friend w benefits" if given a chance...and that's always in their minds.

So Tunera if your H said I don't want you to go to a bar your Ex frequents You'd still go? or contact an Ex? Just for spite? Where would it end? 

I roll in a marriage a different way. If my wife said Id prefer or even forbid me to go to a place or engage in a certain behavior I d probably stop or give in to her wishes ...out of RESPECT- I dropped all of my bad habits w/ regard to dating once I met and starting dating my wife. -I've never felt the need to go back to any of them. Again out of respect for HER and our marriage.

Nucking F's- she knows how much I was against any Exs being brought up even one from almost 20 years ago...I always become infuriated when she brought up her Ex -crement I never aside from her insisting did I ever bring up my past...at any time in our marriage to this day.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You know, every time you use that 'word,' you look less and less credible and less mature.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> So Tunera if your H said I don't want you to go to a bar your Ex frequents You'd still go? or contact an Ex? Just for spite? Where would it end?


Sounds like you're too busy posturing to actually read what's being said to you.

I said that if my husband FORBID me to do something, I would consider doing it to spite him. However, if he came to me *AS AN EQUAL* and said that it bothered him if I did ABC, you can bet I would stop doing ABC. No matter what it was. Unless it was impractical (and neanderthal) like saying I'm not 'allowed' to speak to male coworkers in the course of my job.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> Really *I'm pretty easy *to be married to aside from this issue and her thinking hetero. guys want to be "friends". *I m pretty easy*. *I don't believe* any guy wants to be a friend to my wife ...*I believe* these so called friends would turn into a "friend w benefits" if given a chance...and that's always in their minds.


Again, as usual, all about what YOU believe and nothing about how your wife feels.

And if you're that easy to be married to, why don't you invite her here and ask her to set the record straight for us?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

"infuriated" sounds scary to me. 

The fact that your wife deleted her FB acct sounds like she is allowing you to control her (she walks around on egg shells to avoid "infuriating" you). 

Not sure where Mr K is when we need him? But he is an admitted abuser and explains it well. 99% of the time-not abusive. 1% of the time-abusive. For a woman, the 1% of the time abusive colors the whole marriage and causes a woman to lose those loving feelings and eventually walk away.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

I know she feels its OK to look up old flames as she continues to do this,her friends do this too(I think) which IMO validates the fact that she does it to a degree ... well have to agree to disagree Tunera - Ill always disagree with looking up Exes ..The reason I use that "word" you so dislike is that he has done things that makes me wonder WHY any woman would stay with someone let alone try to look him up...but I never claimed to understand women.

I don't invite her on because I discuss these issues with no one else...aside from her- this forum is a good tool to talk to people anonymously and get different viewpoints. As far as speaking to co workers that's fine if work related BUT as the song describes straight men don't want to be just friends... 

To the post claiming I m abusive- ....not wanting your wife to look an Ex- crement up ( had to-lol) is abusive? Cmon!! Are we that soft as a society to look at this as abuse? If anyone is abused its me -the mental torture as to why she cant let go, the sneaking around the wondering what if this Ex crement wasn't married what would've happened etc etc. To me and many others that's something you shouldn't do in a marriage... 

Some women it seems these days want all the benefits of commitment and marriage ...but don't want to change their single days behavior to commit to marriage...Marriage in many cases the women want far more than the man.

As I said time will tell what happens BUT what I learned is it pays to be vigilant...because you never know what your wife ...or husband is up to ...Social media and tools of the like make is easier than ever to "reconnect with "friends" " and sometimes that can lead to bad things...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I don't invite her on because I discuss these issues with no one else...aside from her- this forum is a good tool to talk to people anonymously and get different viewpoints.


So why can't she get different viewpoints? Are you afraid they'll differ from yours and she may like what she hears?



Mrinsensitive said:


> To the post claiming I m abusive- ....not wanting your wife to look an Ex is abusive? Cmon!!


Again, misquoting what someone says, for your own purpose. MY take, _which I've said several times now_, is that if you *DEMAND *that she do something, you'd better expect her to do the opposite of what you're demanding. What if she DEMANDS you never do something? Are you going to just sit back and say 'oh, ok, honey, you're always right so I should always listen to you'? Somehow, I doubt it.

Are you going to address the subject of WHY she is now thinking of him, as it concerns her happiness in this marriage? If you'd stop wasting time posturing about what women should or shouldn't do, and instead pay attention to your own wife, and SEE if she's satisfied with you, and adjust your own ways so as to avoid LBing her and meet all her ENs, you'll likely be pleasantly surprised to see that she would no longer even _think _of looking up an ex.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

He he....

You're a glutton for punishment Mr. I.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

turnera said:


> So why can't she get different viewpoints? Are you afraid they'll differ from yours and she may like what she hears?


I read that as him wanting to keep TAM for his safe place. I don't see anything wrong with that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I understand that, NF. But he's not happy, she's not happy, and nothing is getting resolved. Maybe if she were to come here, we could get the 'real' truth - you know, the one somewhere in the middle of what he says and she says? - and give them both some advice that would fix things.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

I can deal with alot of punishment



turnera said:


> So why can't she get different viewpoints? Are you afraid they'll differ from yours and she may like what she hears?
> 
> Lol..she gets different viewpoints from her friends and family -(I'm sure)and my family for that matter ..which most of the women think it not a big deal to do...Surprise surprise...
> 
> ...


 Supposedly she saw a friend request on FB and acc. to her "was curious". That is what started this most recent episode..Again I can only provide her an environment for her to be happy in ..I cant make her happy. If I had the power to make people happy- Id use it to treat the clinically depressed,rape victims, terminal patients etc etc and make them happy. I ll eventually get over it but never forget it. Again if your not in a marriage this type of behavior might be appropriate depending on the relationship...and how committed both partners are. LOL I may consider hypnosis to remove this memory from her past...and mine.


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## deceitfulwife (Jan 23, 2014)

This is the WIFE!

To explain and defend .........

1.) When I was getting to know my neighbor, I found out that she went to the same high school as a lot of people I knew so i asked her if she knew a number of people which did include my "ex". the neighbor who lives next to her also went to the same HS. One night she had us all over and asked what my "ex's" name was ......end of story! Why she only mentioned him when i asked her about a dozen other people i have no idea

2.) I never deleted any history on the computer.....

3.) Comparing my husband to my "ex" in a neg way.....what he left out was how rude and disrespectful he was being to me for quite a few hours that day because I had not initiated sex the night before.....I said something out of line a ndvery hurtful but I did not compare him to anybody in specific, I mentioned no names and was very general. i said it to make him as mad as he had made me. He chooses to believe it was about my "ex" but it wasn't.

4.) I have been best friends with my "ex's" cousin since the second grade. My "ex's" wife is friends with my lifelong friend so she came up as a suggested "friend" from FB....i was curious what she looked like so i went on her FB page.....END OF STORY!

i have never looked up my"ex", did not inquire about him, have had absolutely no communication with him.....according to my husband going on her FB page was inquiring and I disagree.
Knowing how insecure and insanely jealous my husband is I was wrong to go on and I have acknowledged that. I have not only deactivated my FB acct nut I have completely deleted it at his request, while he still has a FB acct himself. my husband thinks that I have "betrayed" him, he acts like I have cheated on him. 

Because his mother cheated on his dad and his dad has had 3 failed marriages he thinks i will do the same.

THOR and everybody else who was so full of judgement and GREAT advise to husband and was sooooo helpful in fueling his insecurities MAYBE you should think for a moment that there are always two sides of a story and that just MAYBE some info was left out. GREAT JOB!


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## deceitfulwife (Jan 23, 2014)

After reading more posts.......THE SEXUAL DETAILS.......I told him something VERY private that happened to me BEFORE him because I wanted to open and honest. NEVER did I tell him anything to make him jealous or to hurt him. I never realized that he could not handle me having a past (something I can not change or erase), I figured I would want him to do the same. I can't read "Fifty Shades of Grey" or go for a girls night out and see "Magic Mike" or "Sex in The City" without his jealousy and making me feel like I'm inappropriate.


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## deceitfulwife (Jan 23, 2014)

FYI...my ex's because his wife had posted a few pics of him on HER page, so now my husband considers it "their" FB page.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hi deceitfulwife, welcome. Question: have you read this book: Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men, by Lundy Bancroft? I highly recommend it in your situation.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi dw,

Hate that handle! You shouldn't be owning that as your identity  Just sayin'

Read the book turnera recommended. It helped me.



> Because his mother cheated on his dad and his dad has had 3 failed marriages he thinks i will do the same.


A good reason for him to get IC and stop projecting his issues and baggage onto you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You are brave, deceitful wife. It is so rare we get to hear both sides of the story. Thanks for coming on and telling yours!


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

deceitfulwife:

to clarify, do you have difficulty "getting past" something regarding this particular EX? how the relationship ended or some other aspect of the relationship. i.e. do you feel you're still trying to work through something regarding that past relationship? have you frequently brought up this guy in conversation with your husband a lot in the past 19 years

Or is your husband simply way off the mark - badly misunderstanding your intentions - and this particular EX only comes up in passing once and awhile.....


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## deceitfulwife (Jan 23, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> deceitfulwife:
> 
> to clarify, do you have difficulty "getting past" something regarding this particular EX? how the relationship ended or some other aspect of the relationship. i.e. do you feel you're still trying to work through something regarding that past relationship? have you frequently brought up this guy in conversation with your husband a lot in the past 19 years
> 
> Or is your husband simply way off the mark - badly misunderstanding your intentions - and this particular EX only comes up in passing once and awhile.....


No....I'm not the one who can't get past my "ex"...obviously my husband is the one who has the problem with my past. I NEVER bring up my "ex" to him....it is only talked about when he brings it up. I can honestly say I have rarely talked about him over the course of 19 years. My husband has to accept that I have a past that does not include him and that doesn't go away because I met him or married him. The biggest shame is we could have a really nice life together with some consideration and trust and communication without constantly going on the defense mode and attack.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I hope you will read the book I recommended.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

deceitfulwife said:


> No....I'm not the one who can't get past my "ex"...obviously my husband is the one who has the problem with my past. I NEVER bring up my "ex" to him....it is only talked about when he brings it up. I can honestly say I have rarely talked about him over the course of 19 years. My husband has to accept that I have a past that does not include him and that doesn't go away because I met him or married him. The biggest shame is we could have a really nice life together with some consideration and trust and communication without constantly going on the defense mode and attack.


have you tried to reassure him with stuff like "he's not even in your league, stop thinking about him" ....or is it more complicated than that


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

deceitfulwife said:


> This is the WIFE!
> 
> To explain and defend .........
> 
> ...


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

turnera said:


> I hope you will read the book I recommended.



I will read it ....


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Mr. Insensitive, I am coming into this late. has your wife ever been on faithful to you? 

has she cheated in past relationships? 

is she known to be a liar? 

if not then I thank you are over the top in your need to control who she's curious about and such. I can understand concern but if she hasn't had a past where she has gone off and chased other men and I think all you doing is you are driving her way. 

love and loyalty and fidelity are gifts. you aren't allowing her to give you those gifts you are stealing them, holding him captive .

so what is it about yourself that is causing you such great insecurity? is this new or is this an ongoing struggle?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I will read it ....


I was talking to your wife.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> I guess Ill reply as long as I can but probably wont bring up too much more on this forum ...it seems as though as my wife will discuss our marriage with her friends,her family and possibly my family ...its not Ok for me to speak to people in cyberspace anonymously about our marriage by myself. I guess Ill either find a new forum or talk to no one about ...so be it.


Didn't get the response you wanted, so you're taking your toys and going home, eh? 

Has she 'forbidden' you to speak here? If not, why can you say 'it's not ok' for you to talk about what you want? Sounds more like people aren't telling you what you wanted to hear and you didn't like her sharing her side, which was about what I expected to hear from her - that you are paranoid, controlling, and unrealistic.

And btw, if the computer is shared, I fail to see how you think she is doing anything 'unprincipled' (as opposed to YOU, whom you call 'principled - meaning SHE is NOT - ouch).

What this is really about is your expectation that your wife - or probably any woman, for that matter - will cheat on you because your mom did. 

IIWY, I'd stop bashing my wife and spend more time trying to figure out if I'm making her happy.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

turnera said:


> Didn't get the response you wanted, so you're taking your toys and going home, eh?
> 
> Has she 'forbidden' you to speak here? If not, why can you say 'it's not ok' for you to talk about what you want? Sounds more like people aren't telling you what you wanted to hear and you didn't like her sharing her side, which was about what I expected to hear from her - that you are paranoid, controlling, and unrealistic.
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ah...you don't want IRL people knowing you're having this problem. Got it. Well, good luck.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

> *I cant understand why her interset in the bed room while before we got married was strong and very consistent now very inconsistent and situational. *


Living in a M which is like a prison, being regarded with constant suspicion, being viewed with contempt, having one's motivations twisted from something benign and innocent to something evil...

...is not a turn on. It's a turn off

Just sayin'


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> I cant understand why her interest in the bed room while before we got married was strong and very consistent now very inconsistent and situational.


You say you're not responsible for her happiness, that it has to come from her. Well, here's the perfect example of why you are wrong. Women have to have a strong emotional connection with their man to want to have sex with him. The stronger the bond, the more sex she wants. That bond is dependent not only on being happy with him but ALSO dependent on NOT being UNHAPPY because of him. If you are doing things in your marriage that she considers Love Busters (where you make her unhappy, displease her), she will want sex with you less and less and less. So, you see, it really IS up to you to 'make her happy', for you to get what YOU want (better bedroom time). 

Your choice. Ignore the advice and watch her get more and more detached from you, until she becomes a roommate or actually leaves. Or come off your high horse and actually LISTEN to what many are telling you (including your wife), and look at your own actions, and maybe rekindle your relationship and get it back where you want it. It is a direct result of what YOU put into it (good AND bad).


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

turnera said:


> You say you're not responsible for her happiness, that it has to come from her. Well, here's the perfect example of why you are wrong. Women have to have a strong emotional connection with their man to want to have sex with him. The stronger the bond, the more sex she wants. That bond is dependent not only on being happy with him but ALSO dependent on NOT being UNHAPPY because of him. If you are doing things in your marriage that she considers Love Busters (where you make her unhappy, displease her), she will want sex with you less and less and less. So, you see, it really IS up to you to 'make her happy', for you to get what YOU want (better bedroom time).
> 
> *If that were the case how do you explain one night stands....how could a woman know whether their partner would make them happy where it only takes a few hours of conversation to get them "emotionally connected" and leading to bedroom time.....
> *
> ...


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

Blonde said:


> Living in a M which is like a prison, being regarded with constant suspicion, being viewed with contempt, having one's motivations twisted from something benign and innocent to something evil...
> 
> ...is not a turn on. It's a turn off
> 
> Just sayin'


*
That is a totally different issue again many women pull a "bait n switch" on guys after marriage....
Bait them in with a consistent "bedroom time" prior and immediately following marriage- that diminishes or is used as nothing but reward for chores or to get something else out of their husbands after they are comfortable in the marriage- this can definitely lead to infidelity and divorce ...many of the posts on this site back this up.... *


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

turnera said:


> You say you're not responsible for her happiness, that it has to come from her. Well, here's the perfect example of why you are wrong. Women have to have a strong emotional connection with their man to want to have sex with him. The stronger the bond, the more sex she wants. That bond is dependent not only on being happy with him but ALSO dependent on NOT being UNHAPPY because of him. If you are doing things in your marriage that she considers Love Busters (where you make her unhappy, displease her), she will want sex with you less and less and less. So, you see, it really IS up to you to 'make her happy', for you to get what YOU want (better bedroom time).
> 
> Your choice. Ignore the advice and watch her get more and more detached from you, until she becomes a roommate or actually leaves. Or come off your high horse and actually LISTEN to what many are telling you (including your wife), and look at your own actions, and maybe rekindle your relationship and get it back where you want it. It is a direct result of what YOU put into it (good AND bad).


OP:
it sounds as if the lack of sex, or problems in the sexual relationship is the real issue in your marriage, the issue that fuels the other concerns you have raised in this thread. I agree those things can be valid concerns in and of themselves, but do you think the curiosity about the Ex would upset as much if things with her in the sexual realm were going really well?

to Turnera and others:
this statement 

"Women have to have a strong emotional connection with their man to want to have sex with him. The stronger the bond, the more sex she wants."

I definitely think this is true. however I think the reverse is also true. i.e. that --

_Men have to have a strong physical connection with their woman in order to feel a strong emotional bond with her. The stronger the physical bond, the more love he feels for her."_

do you agree? then it is a question of whether one partner is more responsible than the other for starting this negative spiral in their marriage. Not clear to me how it has played out with OP and his wife.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> If that were the case how do you explain one night stands....how could a woman know whether their partner would make them happy where it only takes a few hours of conversation to get them "emotionally connected" and leading to bedroom time.....


 I have been a faithful wife for 30+ years (through some serious crap too) and I find your assumption insulting. 

Please get yourself some IC and admit and grieve the crap your cheating mother inflicted on you so that you don't keep punishing your wife and seeing her (and women) through warped lenses. Please.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> *
> That is a totally different issue again many women pull a "bait n switch" on guys after marriage....
> Bait them in with a consistent "bedroom time" prior and immediately following marriage- that diminishes or is used as nothing but reward for chores or to get something else out of their husbands after they are comfortable in the marriage- this can definitely lead to infidelity and divorce ...many of the posts on this site back this up.... *


Well, I don't believe in and did not practice premarital sex and I taught my values to the children and so far 3 married, one engaged, they have all been virgins on the wedding day...

IME men bait and switch. The bait is being kind, attentive, respectful, interested, and listening before M. Once the "I do's" are said the prey is bagged and there is no more attention except when they want sex. 

(((((shrug)))))) I think H and I are going to make it but if not, I'm never marrying again and I won't live with a man either! Why trade kind attentive respectful dating for entitled, disrespectful spouse? I think God will understand.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> _Men have to have a strong physical connection with their woman in order to feel a strong emotional bond with her. The stronger the physical bond, the more love he feels for her."_
> 
> do you agree?


Nope. We did it like rabbits and H still cheated. He couldn't hurt me like that if he loved me or had an ounce of empathy for how much pain his choices would cause.

He told me for him cheating is "like eating at a restaurant when you aren't home for a home cooked meal". Yeah. No Emotional Bond at all. Strictly an appetite which will gorge on whatever is handy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrinsensitive said:


> *
> That is a totally different issue again many women pull a "bait n switch" on guys after marriage....
> Bait them in with a consistent "bedroom time" prior and immediately following marriage- that diminishes or is used as nothing but reward for chores or to get something else out of their husbands after they are comfortable in the marriage- this can definitely lead to infidelity and divorce ...many of the posts on this site back this up.... *


:rofl:

Ah, so your lack of sex is because SHE is a conniving witch, then? Has NOTHING to do with her being unhappy with YOU. Allrightee then...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I definitely think this is true. however I think the reverse is also true. i.e. that --
> 
> _Men have to have a strong physical connection with their woman in order to feel a strong emotional bond with her. The stronger the physical bond, the more love he feels for her."_
> 
> do you agree? then it is a question of whether one partner is more responsible than the other for starting this negative spiral in their marriage. Not clear to me how it has played out with OP and his wife.


Well, given that she has come on here and totally contradicted what he says, and given his strong-arm tactics, I'd bet on her pulling back out of unhappiness.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

Blonde said:


> I have been a faithful wife for 30+ years (through some serious crap too) and I find your assumption insulting.
> 
> Please get yourself some IC and admit and grieve the crap your cheating mother inflicted on you so that you don't keep punishing your wife and seeing her (and women) through warped lenses. Please.


*To Clarify:*

*I apologize if you took my reply as a personal assumption about your situation ...I was speaking in generalities that there are many one night stands that happen daily that contradict the post about women needing to feel emotionally attached in order to spend time in the bedroom.- I meant no disrespect to you or your relationship.*


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

turnera said:


> Well, given that she has come on here and totally contradicted what he says, and given his strong-arm tactics, I'd bet on her pulling back out of unhappiness.


*I wouldn't say totally contradicted ....BUT I did leave other details out on PURPOSE as they are very personal and I m not sure my wife would appreciate me putting some of those details out on a public forum....in addition there are details along the same story line that go back to a month or so after we started dating that follow the same plot...If anything my parents marriage and many other failed marriages that I know of- as I ve said has taught me to be vigilant. They have taught me no matter how well you think your marriage is going or not going ....actions speak louder than words.*


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yes, and YOUR actions are affecting HER actions.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> *To Clarify:*
> 
> *I apologize if you took my reply as a personal assumption about your situation ...I was speaking in generalities that there are many one night stands that happen daily that contradict the post about women needing to feel emotionally attached in order to spend time in the bedroom.- I meant no disrespect to you or your relationship.*


TBH, I have a very tough skin (from dealing with my own Mr Insensitive for 30+ years) and I did not take your assumption personally when I noted that it is offensive toward women. When I post, I am usually putting myself in "wife-skin" and imagining how the wife in the situation at hand feels...

Can you see how your assumption is disrespectful to your wife and women? To take the dregs who have been unspeakably immoral and assume that your wife and/or all or even most women would be that way is offensive. 

My dad was an abusive alcoholic, serial adulterer, and not much of a father- I've seen him less than 10 times in the past 40 years and by his choice, not for lack of invitation, he has not met my youngest 4 children (ages 11-18). Should I assume ALL men are like this? My own H sure pushed the buttons when he cheated (1990 and 2008) and was a neglectful workaholic and hard drinking porn and strip club addict (07-08). A counselor told me that women tend to pick someone like their dad. Don't know if men pick someone like their mom??? 

Ultimately my H is NOT like my dad because he got his head out of his a$$ and is now putting a lot of effort into being a good father and H.

I went to IC and recovered from the toxic baggage my parents gave me. You can do that too.


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## deceitfulwife (Jan 23, 2014)

Thank you tunera and Blonde for the support. You both have hit the nail on the head. Things were going really well for the past month and half. We started some much needed one on one time together, which after having kids never made it a priority to do. I was trying to live up to his expectations of a wife and it seemed he was trying to live up to mine. I started thinking that maybe what had happened in December was a wake up call to us both. i should of know that as soon as I verbally acknowledge that things were good between us and I was starting to feel happiness with him again that the rug would be pulled out from under me. We started talking about things from our past (sexual stuff). he told me things that I wasn't too pleased with but can accept. He wanted to know the name of the first "boy" I had sex with. FYI, I have had sex with 3 people and my husband is one of them. I didn't want to tell him but he insisted he could handle it and that he just wanted to know his name. Why I let my guard down and believed him I have no idea, but I did and I told him (mind you I was 16 and am now 40). This boy ended up marrying a girl from my neighborhood who I was kind of friends with. I admitted to seeing her a few times over the years and I have exchanged a few words with her. He now accuses me of trying to have ties with this guy and being connected to him because I have had words with his wife who I was friends with. He is now trying to track this guy down so that if we ever see him and his wife and they try to say hi then he can start a fight with this guy. This guy has an unusual spelled name that after 24 years I forgot how to spell and could not give him the spelling so now I am accused of lying. I only tell you all this because I am sure he will be on spinning his truth. He has a problem that I was not a virgin when we met. He truly has a horrible opinion of women even though he will not admit it. I wish he could see how ridiculous he is and how he has and is ruining our marriage, I guess he just doesn't really care!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Time to move on, deceitfulwife. He will not change.

btw, I went through the same thing. My DH just had to know my past. And for a good 10 years of marriage, it kept coming up. Again and again. Like I was tainted for not being a virgin.

HE has the issue, and HE will never stop having the issue.

Oh, and guess what? My DD23 met a guy 2 years ago, took MONTHS to get to know him before dating him, she was SO careful, and she was technically still a virgin at 21 (came this.close to full intercourse before but not that far) and he became more and more controlling, critical, condescending, and intolerant, the longer they dated. When she finally disclosed that she had come this.close to real intercourse, he literally KICKED HER OUT of his apartment! Her virginity was the ONLY thing that mattered to him. He was SO INSECURE (just like my husband, her dad) about himself that the ONLY way he felt safe was to know that she had never had sex with another man.

Luckily, she only dated him 6 months, so when he kicked her out, she came home and I was able to 'deprogram' her from his abuse. She's grateful she dodged that bullet, now. At the time, she had trouble seeing it. Even though she had researched and done a program at her high school about high school dating abuse. It happens to anyone.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Well, the OP sounds like an extremely confused person; first stating he thinks it's disrespectful to discuss past flames, then insisting on discussing it, as if he's chasing reasons to feel jealous.

I admit I believed him when he said stated that the qty of times the ex was brought up was causing him distress, and I still believe that married couples should avoid each other's 'love busters', but now it seems he's causing his own distress in reality.

I think the OP is expecting to see his marriage fail due to his wife cheating one day. He's so caught up in watching for it, he's seeing it in everything that happens, regardless of whether it's there or not.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And let's not forget what that does to the wife, over time.


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## deceitfulwife (Jan 23, 2014)

Breeze.....you are exactly right. He went into this marriage with expectations of failure (I'm the one who pushed for the marriage). His mother cheated on his father so he waits for me to do it to him. Nothing that any of you say to him (with the exception of the few who agree with him) gets through. He can never see anybody else's point of view, he's the one that is right and only his opinions and feelings count. I'm just very disappointed that things haven't changed. I should of known better than to be open and honest with him. For some crazy reason I took his word as to it being his curiosity. I think i told him about knowing this guys wife to be like "hey, no big deal I was kind of friends with her growing up. every now and then I run into her and have said hi". Maybe I said it to prove that he's not somebody i'm hung up on if I can say hi to his wife. At this point I give up! I'm sure he won't be happy that I've posted again but it has helped me relieve some stress.... i think my friends are probably tired of the drama.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So you're leaving?


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## deceitfulwife (Jan 23, 2014)

I doubt I'll leave anytime soon since we have 3 children who need both of us right now but I am done with trying and hoping.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why do they need both of you right now?


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## deceitfulwife (Jan 23, 2014)

They're still young and I feel that children have better chance in life if they have both their parents full time, ideally speaking. I guess leaving isn't a decision that I'm ready to make, I just know that I don't have much hope that our marriage will ever be happy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Statistically speaking, children have a better chance of growing up healthy and happy if their parents divorce SOONER rather than later - when the kids are younger, not when the kids are older. If divorce is in your cards, do it as soon as possible for your kids' sakes. They'll still have their dad in their lives but they'll have a happy mother for once, who isn't being consumed by depression and repression and becoming a shell of her former self. I'm talking about you, but it was my story, too. I, too, thought I should 'stay for the kids' and my DD23 has set me straight on that several times. She wishes I would have left her dad many many times, and I was too chicken to do it. Now, DD23 has major anxiety due to her dad's overbearance, fear of accomplishments, and disbelief in her own power. She has a meltdown at least once every month or two and I have to spend at least an hour talking her down. And she has to go to IC on a regular basis. Because I never stood up to her dad and wouldn't leave.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It's your decision, obviously. Just know that children are very perceptive. And they will know their parents don't have a happy marriage no matter how hard you try to conceal it. I knew my parents weren't happy. My son knew his parents weren't happy. I once believed in staying in a marriage when you had children and I did that for a very long time. My experience was that it wasn't worth it -- especially when decades later my son told me his childhood wasn't happy because he knew I wasn't happy. And I did everything possible to cover my unhappiness when he was growing up.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

dw,

First, I think you should change your handle. You are allowing your H's judgments of you to take up residence in your head and define you. You are NOT a "deceitful wife" so stop owning that!

Second, stop allowing him to control you. Keep posting if it helps you. Who cares if it upsets him? It is good and healthy for YOU. Despite his horrible twisted interpretations of your motives, what I hear is that YOU are here to process what is happening with your H and you desire for your relationship with your H to improve.

Third, IME people project their own hearts. So if I was in your shoes, I would seriously be wondering if your H is having EA/PA's or will do so before long. His heart is stuck on that and it keeps spewing out of him at you.

Fourth, you don't need to answer here because your husband sounds scary to me and he reads this. But if you ARE attracted to another man who seems like he is everything your H is not and is meeting EN's which your husband is not meeting, then that will increase your anger at your H and dissatisfaction with the M and it is better to go NC and find healthier ways of getting your EN's met (girlfriends, hobbies, activities you enjoy, etc.)


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

BTW as I mentioned above, I have my own "Mr Insensitive"

I read Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men - Lundy Bancroft - Google Books. We attended Retrouvaille. And I went to therapy and grew a backbone. 

We remain married. He no longer controls me and I do not let his judgments of me stick. And I stand up for the children when he spews at them. They know that daddy's harsh words are *daddy's* issue. We have 8 children (ages 11-29) and some of them are adults now. It's hard on them when they are little, but I remain constantly vigilant and undo the damage as it occurs. As the children have they matured, they really do *know* that daddy's harsh words are daddy's issue. They have good boundaries.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

deceitfulwife said:


> Thank you tunera and Blonde for the support. You both have hit the nail on the head. Things were going really well for the past month and half. We started some much needed one on one time together, which after having kids never made it a priority to do. I was trying to live up to his expectations of a wife and it seemed he was trying to live up to mine. I started thinking that maybe what had happened in December was a wake up call to us both. * i should of know that as soon as I verbally acknowledge that things were good between us and I was starting to feel happiness with him again that the rug would be pulled out from under me. *We started talking about things from our past (sexual stuff). he told me things that I wasn't too pleased with but can accept. ...
> 
> He now accuses me of trying to have ties with this guy and being connected to him because I have had words with his wife who I was friends with. He is now trying to track this guy down so that if we ever see him and his wife and they try to say hi then he can start a fight with this guy. This guy has an unusual spelled name that after 24 years I forgot how to spell and could not give him the spelling so now I am accused of lying. I only tell you all this because I am sure he will be on spinning his truth. He has a problem that I was not a virgin when we met. He truly has a horrible opinion of women even though he will not admit it. I wish he could see how ridiculous he is and how he has and is ruining our marriage, I guess he just doesn't really care!


It's almost like he is pushing you to be like his mommy...

You have to get used to Mr Insensitives using vulnerablities as weapons. You have to develop a very thick skin where you can laugh it off and point it back at them that they are exploitative like that. You have to really get to where you don't care what they say or think (other than feeling sorry for them that they are so stuck and have such a warped perception of others based on *their own unhealed baggage)*. You just shrug it off. 

Your post above a defensive reaction to him. Just shrug it off when he attacks. I would develop a one sentence reply that you use consistently every time he goes into attack mode. "When you do this, I feel attacked, and I'm not going to discuss this any further" Then you leave the room. I'm more blunt. "That was harsh!" 

Find some Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those ... - Henry Cloud - Google Books preferably a group of gf's to share vulnerabilities and process with. And I think you could really benefit by working with a professional counselor. I had a male therapist and it was very healing for me to talk with a "safe" male.

Eventually the fact that you stayed by his side and were faithful may crack through his walls. Or, more likely, it will be when the children start calling him on his crapola. His children are an extension of himself and he may hear them better than anyone else in the world.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Mrinsensitive said:


> ...
> 
> So....Rewind to 3 years ago.
> 
> ...


Lots of women will keep checking out their reserve list and their could have been list on Facebook. If this seems unlikely, delete your Facebook account and find out how many women notice within a couple of days. It does not equate to them all wanting to run off with the man. 

You are also keeping a three year old argument alive in your mind. Whether that is reasonable or not is not the issue, it is not healthy. 

Holding onto the argument together with checking the internet history account is more stereotypical behaviour of women than men- which is not to say it is wrong, but does mean male friends will have a harder time understanding it (I recall a poster on here saying she acceidentally was looking through the history on her husbands mobile, which amused me a little), where as having a beer to many and calling her chlidish to your friends would seem more natural (no better or worse).

What she did is daft and childish. An argument a few years ago should no longer count though and your reaction to the recent event is a little too emotional. When my wife found something suspicious in my Internet history (she was looking through by mistake), she asked me about it and I could explain it. A calmer approach would be a good idea if you want her to feel free to be honest.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I've just read this entire thread in one sitting.

OP's wife, you really need to get out. If what you and OP have said here are true, you are in an abusive relationship. No doubt OP will disagree and defend, but it's plain and obvious to anyone with half a brain, simply by reading OP's threads alone.

IMO, what this is doing to your kids is unbelievably unhealthy, and it's a no-win situation for them. All of your husbands insecurities and righteousness will be passed along to them, and the cycle will continue. Their future spouses will no doubt be treated just as you are.

However, you have much more of a chance of breaking this cycle with your own kids if you were to leave, eventually find someone who is not abusive, and show them what it's ACTUALLY like to be happily married, trusted, valued, and not seen as a piece of property.

Your husband does not see you as an individual. He sees you as a extension of his mother, and therefore, is doing everything he can to avoid his marriage turning out like his parents did. He is projecting every tiny little detail on to you, to the point of ridiculousness. What he doesn't understand - what he can't understand - is that even in marriage, people are free to make their own choices - not have them made for them.

There is nothing wrong with being "vigilant" or pro-active, however there is an extremely fine line (that he has crossed, and continues to cross) between mate-guarding and emotional abuse.

This will continue as long as you are with him, and his actions will continue with you, or any other woman who comes after.

Now ask yourself: Is this the type of life you want to live? Is this the type of thing you want to be dealing with until old age? And just as, if not more, importantly: don't you want to protect your children from continuing this cycle?

Staying with him will continue to make you miserable. Staying with him will pass these so-called "values" on to your kids, who will in turn make THEIR spouses miserable.

OP/the husband is very likely a nice guy, and means well, and has good intentions, for you, for him, and for the kids. But he can't see the forest for the trees, and it's resulted in obsessive behavior that is detrimental to all of your mental well-being and health.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

WOW no wonder the divorce rate is sooo high ? Are you sure all of those encouraging divorce aren't lawyers that hope to get my wife as a client? You should all be ashamed of your selves...would you also encourage a suicidal bridge jumper to jump so you all could use the bridge to get home from work on time?

I have to go to work now and will reply as I get time between working some-days 7 days a week to support MY WIFE and OUR family...

Your replies as this is abuse are laughable. Marriage is a higher level of commitment than high-school flings or affairs. Many on this forum don't see the difference.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe, but we do know harm when we see it.

Do you enjoy hurting her? Then why do it?


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

Mr.Insensitive

I have a story for you. 

I have a friend back in the 80's who was YOU and he also had ZERO trust in his then steady live in girlfriend. This was mostly due to he had no girlfriends in his teen years and didn't know how important trust and loving behavoiur was in a relationship and how damaging and costly trying to exert "total control" would end up being for him. 

He tried to control her every move and every thought and got angry and lashed out at her in public with his insane jealousy and anger when in everyone else's view she was never doing anything wrong. It made us all very uncomfortable watching it. She wasn't allowed to have a conversation with another male in our circle of friends without his obivous jealousy and insecurity issues flaming out of control like a crazy ass forest fire. 

Eventually she had enough and left. And YES... his attitude greatly affected their sex life before she did leave as it's hard to love a control freak who is acting like an ass and constantly accusing you of crappy behaviour. 

However my friend learned his lesson and with his next girl he may have felt these pangs of jealousy flare in his heart from time to time but he learned to control them and to actually act like he trusted her even when there must have been times that he felt otherwise. He never used anger or threats and SURPRISINGLY she has never once cheated or forked him over and they've been happily together some 25 years now.

It is crystal clear to most of here that YOU have serious insecurity and control issues and it is also clear that Blondie and Turnera have tried their best to make you see it, but you refuse to consider that your version of "100% commitment to your marriage" is so incredibly wrong and what you are calling commitment is her doing every damn thing you say just so you don't have to deal with your own insecurities. 

Have you noticed that your wife has liked all the posts pointing out how incredibly dead wrong you are? 

You need to pull your head out of your high and mighty cloud because you are clearly killing your marriage and damaging the love your wife has for you. You may need to talk to a professional about your issues if you can't change your behaviour yourself as otherwise you'll be working 7 days a week to pay for your family to live in a house where YOU don't!!!

WAKE UP BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Marriage certainly is a high level of commitment. There is an expectation that our partners grow and learn and become wiser as we get older together.

Right now commitment to your marriage requires you to grow and learn. If you are as committed as you say, you will embrace this opportunity to forge a stronger marriage by overcoming your own insecurities.

Marriage isn't just about having sex with one person only for the rest of your life. It's so much more than that, but you're not seeing the forest for the trees. All you see is that she must be faithful. What about everything else? What about meeting her needs to feel loved, trusted and safe from hurtful and unfounded accusations by her spouse?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Mrinsensitive said:


> WOW no wonder the divorce rate is sooo high ? Are you sure all of those encouraging divorce aren't lawyers that hope to get my wife as a client? You should all be ashamed of your selves...would you also encourage a suicidal bridge jumper to jump so you all could use the bridge to get home from work on time?
> 
> I have to go to work now and will reply as I get time between working some-days 7 days a week to support MY WIFE and OUR family...
> 
> Your replies as this is abuse are laughable. Marriage is a higher level of commitment than high-school flings or affairs. Many on this forum don't see the difference.


Some do over-react, but keep that in context. You are right that marriage is not just high school stuff. Frankly, keeping a grudge about a very old argument and getting upset because she looked up an old boyfriend on Facebook really is high school stuff.

You seem very highly strung (I appreciate you do not come on here when chilled). The commitment of marriage is also to recognise and work on your faults.

You call yourself Mr Insenstive. Do you use that as a disclaimer that people have to accept? Sensitive has a few meanings, being very touchy with criticism and unable to accept it, being very aware of your own individual feelings and how to indulge them or being aware of how you and people around you are feeling. You are extremely sensitive according to the first two and seem indifferent to the third.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> WOW no wonder the divorce rate is sooo high ? Are you sure all of those encouraging divorce aren't lawyers that hope to get my wife as a client?


I have been married 31 years to my first and only husband (who is also a "MrInsensitive"). Turnera also has a long term M. 

So I am definitely not here advocating for divorce, Mr Insensitive!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I've been married since 1980.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

LOL Now I have a few hours before I get back to supporting my wife and family via work.

I will start by saying why is it my wife who is abused in this scenario? She did push for the marriage from the beginning of which I agreed to 12 years ago. Weve been together for almost 20.
I was hesitant to marry at first for a few reasons. This "curiosity" with pasts being one. I really don't have a problem with her having a past as I ve said all along...While its true I wish I d of been her one and only I know in today's society of minimizing the importance of exclusivity that its almost unheard of for a woman to be unknown to man on her wedding day. Cant figure out why they all still where white tho...but I digress.


Again I have stated all along that I don't tolerate a wife or long term girlfriend keeping contact with past "dates" . I don't do it because I respect the marriage we have, I respect my wife and I really have no interest in them in the least. I have a much more checkered past than my wife and if I saw any of these women, their families , friends etc etc I would avoid contact. Like I ve said I view marriage as a commitment to one person ...your spouse. Thats it some more liberal women feel as tho the man should commit BUT its OK for the women to maintain friendships with past :"dates". or "friends" I think no man wants to be friends with my wife only "date" . You and her may all view this as controlling...but marriage is a relationship under controls...there is a difference ..a controlled environment is being exclusive in your interest and or curiosity of your spouse not your cheating boyfriend of your late teens or your first boy at 16. Marriage is for your husband or wife. IF I HAD done this you same "its all ok " posters would crucify me and feel as tho I m a slime ball but I m torn apart for having moral values...yep you all must be very liberal...you match the MO

The mafia uses "buffers" to communicate from the top down so the bosses cant be directly implicated . Thats what she does ...FB, a wife of a past flame etc etc so she can say she didnt actively look for the information. Also for the record I only said I would start a fight with these guys if they tried to talk or hug my wife...as many MEN and some women would do ... 

To those that say my wife should leave ...I cannot control nor ever thought I could control that...BUT shed be leaving a committed to her for 20 years husband who works doiesnt have any addictions doesnt look or pine for other women past present or other wise with a HIGH moral character. So be it if she does. Ill never leave our marriage unless she cheats...BUT Ill never settle for looking up past flames....We ll see what happens. I can only control what I do and react to what others do .


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Most of us work to support our families. There's really no point in trying to take a moral high ground using that. Yeah, it's work, we all do it.

So your wife pushed for marriage after 8 years together? You were happy not to get married I take it? I think I just heard a thud as you fell off your perch...

You throw 'liberal' around like it's a dirty word. Let's think about that:
Liberal: willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

The fact is, most of the people you are talking to here have very strong boundaries regarding cheating, and in some cases have been married for longer than you, so trying to perceive them as people of low moral fibre is not going to benefit you in the long run, as you try to justify blocking out what they are saying to you.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I think no man wants to be friends with my wife only "date" .


^^Sad 

...and a reflection of your OWN heart Speaks loudly of your view of women IMO.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> I would start a fight with these guys *if they tried to talk* or hug my wife...as many MEN and some women would do ...


So, you're going to fight any man who tries to *talk to* your wife?

Do you live in Saudi Arabia where she is cloistered in the harem? :scratchhead:

And you think you aren't abusive? Go do a little research online about what constitutes abuse. I'm sure you won't agree with the lists and you will want to discount them, blame them on "liberal feminists" but the problem is your wife can do her own homework and will eventually realize that in the 21st century in a western country where females have rights, she does not have to put up with it...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And you'll still be stunned when she leaves you, and blame it all on her.

*shakes head*


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

OK, just for Mr Insensitive, here is the reply he was looking for:

"My God, your wife is looking up people she used to know on Facebook? FB, like women, truly in the work of the devil. As a caring husband you should ban her from Facebook - you realize the next stage is she could be speaking to people without your supervision?

I am glad you keep the disagreement from three years ago in your mind. You have to keep the relationship healthy and the best way to do that is to keep a careful track of every mistake she makes over the years so that it is not repeated.

As a confident self-assured man you are everything she could want, so remembering the any many who listens to her will probably get to sleep with her, be vigilant!

Remember, you are in the right. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES be self-critical or even examine yourself! There is not point, you would just be reassured, but there is NO POINT! DON'T DO IT! Not that is would be a be deal, just don't - that's all.

Thank you, Sir! On behalf of all men for fighting off the feminazis!"


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

LMAO I m being told I m abusive by two liberal women and "man" whos not sure if hes a man or a woman based on his profile...
Liberals always look to blame others for actions instead of themselves for bad behavior.


Yes I don't think men(esp. ones she used to date intimately) want to be "friends" with women unless they're gay or the woman is not attractive. My wife is very attractive and I don't trust other men ...aside form my friends. Its not a reflection of my own views as I don't have ANY female friends that aren't married to my friends. I've seen best make friends go after their best friends wives at weak moments. I would never do this ..it ruins 2 relationships and to me is never worth it.

Yes I would certainly fight a man who my wife used to date or one she hadn't if they did or said something out of line....I thought that's what real men did? not these metrosexuals who are afraid of their own shadows and get manicures...

Yes I m prepared to deal with her leaving as I would never leave unless she cheated or went off the deep end mentally. I vowed this on my wedding day and meant it. I didn't vow to be married only when it suits me. If she leaves to maintain the contact with pasts then....I was never that important anyhow.

I guess I have a different view of marriage in that you commit to your spouse and leave thapast as a PAST...but many women want it both ways. If I DID this there would be names like cheater, creeper, whatever but women should be able to peek in on their pasts un checked...BS this Ill never stand for and if it gets me divorced I can say I m principled in the end and find someone else I guess.

But marriage is a controlled relationship the vows control ones actions and the implied trust. By not tolerating this I m not controlling. Abusive for not tolerating other suitors is laughable- 

Im sure shell keep you posted how it works out.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> LMAO I m being told I m abusive by two liberal women


Oh, I'm about as politically conservative as they come but people like you make me want to re-think that 

Put your fingers in your ears and lalalalalalalalalalala... all the way to divorce court (multiple times because once your serial gullible naive young women grow up and smell the coffee, they aren't going to tolerate it)

(((((((shrug))))))))) It's your life.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Mrinsensitive said:


> But marriage is a controlled relationship the vows control ones actions and the implied trust. By not tolerating this I m not controlling. Abusive .


Read the vows again, they are promises you make TO your spouse not entitlements to control your spouse. You mentioning "trust" is rich since you have none toward your W.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Fwiw. Op mentions post 1 that they mutually agreed to not interact on fb in any way with exes.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Fwiw. Op mentions post 1 that they mutually agreed to not interact on fb in any way with exes.


I am politically Conservative, so let's dismiss that right off the bat. EQUALITY of MAN (gender non specific)

I only read the original post and I got this STRONG subtext of very controlling.

So fast forward to the end page and he's talking about picking fights with people who TALK to his wife.

Guys who FLIRT with the wife, I'm on board with. Guys who inappropriately TOUCH your wife, that is okay too.

TALKING?

But to Weightlifter's post. "MUTUALLY". That is the question. I have an ex GF. I looked her up on FB. She's married. She has kids. I have NOTHING in common with her anymore...but I was curious. I did not try to get in touch with her.

So was it 'mutual' or did he brow beat her into accepting something she thought was unreasonable to keep the peace?

Because a guy who gets his panties in a bunch over two occurrences of MENTIONING someone from her past THREE YEARS APART...well...that's some kind of grudge he is holding.

Maybe there is smoke here. It isn't apparent on first read.


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## Mrinsensitive (May 14, 2010)

LOL I guess in today's arena of Dating and marriage ...a husband or wife cannot expect their spouse to devote 100% of their time ,affection,loyalty and thoughts to their present husband or boyfriend(regardless of how loyal the other is) ...whether they've been together for 2 months or twenty years. The bottom line it seems from my post and many others is that you as a husband or wife are wrong if you expect this from a spouse...even if they pushed more strongly for marriage from the beginning. I would never recommend anyone get married unless the person plans on having kids...too much of a financial and mentally torturing risk.


I unfortunately have now lost the ability to post on this forum anonymously to hear other viewpoints. I have learned much about how marriage and dating I guess is viewed today...I guess I have an idealistic, unrealistic view of both. 

Thanks to all who replied both for and against.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Or....you could try to be honest with yourself and question whether you are seeing the true picture and whether another's viewpoint might be as valid as yours. And thus save yourself the torture you describe.

And to answer you, no, one is NOT expected to devote 100% of themselves to their spouse. One is not a slave. One is a viable, valuable human being with many interests, needs, and value and should therefore be encouraged to develop a complete, healthy, _well-balanced_ life that centers around the marriage but does not become subjective to it.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Mrinsensitive said:


> LOL I guess in today's arena of Dating and marriage ...a husband or wife cannot expect their spouse to devote 100% of their time ,affection,loyalty and thoughts to their present husband or boyfriend(regardless of how loyal the other is) ...whether they've been together for 2 months or twenty years. The bottom line it seems from my post and many others is that you as a husband or wife are wrong if you expect this from a spouse...even if they pushed more strongly for marriage from the beginning. I would never recommend anyone get married unless the person plans on having kids...too much of a financial and mentally torturing risk.
> 
> 
> I unfortunately have now lost the ability to post on this forum anonymously to hear other viewpoints. I have learned much about how marriage and dating I guess is viewed today...I guess I have an idealistic, unrealistic view of both.
> ...


Why resurrect this thread that was almost 2 months old if you don't have an update on your situation?

Can you explain this paragraph that you wrote earlier in the thread?



> I was hesitant to marry at first for a few reasons. This "curiosity" with pasts being one. I really don't have a problem with her having a past as I ve said all along...*While its true I wish I d of been her one and only I know in today's society of minimizing the importance of exclusivity that its almost unheard of for a woman to be unknown to man on her wedding day. Cant figure out why they all still where white tho...but I digress.*


What I don't get is how can you 1) wish that you were your wife's one and only and 2) wonder why women still wear white on their wedding day when you clearly mentioned several times that you have a more checkered past than your wife? Do you wish that you had zero experience when you got married - like your wife? If you had to do it over again, do you wish that you would have never had any relations/interactions with women from your past in order to have been pure for your wife on your wedding day?


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