# Why Does the Divorce "Industry" Seem so Focused on Women?



## Tulanian

If you peruse message boards, browse book stores, or look into therapy groups, it seems like a lot of the resources are focused solely on divorced women. I'm not saying this as some sort of "men's rights" complaint, or because I feel like the world gives men a bad deal. It just seems like maybe there's a widespread assumption that most if not all of the suffering in a divorce is experienced by the woman, not the man.

Any thoughts?


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## norajane

Maybe because, generally speaking, more women than men seek help in books and therapy groups?

I don't know if that's true, but if there were a market for more divorce books written for men, I suspect someone would try to make money from that, too.


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## Ynot

I think it has to do with society's view of men and masculinity. "real men don't cry", "men want sex more than women", "men are more rational than women" etc etc.
The reality of is that men and women may be different, but most of conventional wisdom has it wrong.
For the most part CW is wrong about women as well as men. "women are more nurturing", "women are more emotional than men" etc etc.
I noticed the same thing when I started down the divorce path of my life. Some of my early discoveries led me to feel ashamed. Why should I be so broken up aren't I supposed to "Strong"?
I felt so weak for crying over my broken heart. I felt brown and alone because there was so little advice out there for me as a man.
Keep looking, though you will find it. It is out there
Men are probably more devastated by the trauma of divorce than most women are precisely because of the expectations society places on men. Rather than be encouraged or prompted to talk about their wants, needs, feelings and emotions, for the most part it is expected that men just suffer through it in silence.
Men and women react to the sting of divorce differently but I am sure the trauma is relatively equal all in all.


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## EnjoliWoman

Hm. Being female I hadn't noticed. It seems there are lots of men coming here to discuss problems with LD, overweight or cheating wives causing a lot of marital discord. I always figured it was 50/50.


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## brooklynAnn

I agree with Norajane, more women will seek out help than men. Also, we want to fix things, so we buy more self help books, get therapy and look to share our experiences. 

I think thats probably changing, as we have more self aware men.


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## thread the needle

Supply and demand


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## Wolf1974

Because it's like above 70% of divorces are filed by women. You always advertise to the client base.


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## Mr The Other

Furthermore, as most is aimed at selling to women, most relationship is still based around? Having marriage problems, let us work out how we can do something about your ignorant, complacent, respectless husband? Most men could be forgiven for not digging too deeply into the literature.


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## 06Daddio08

I admit the thought of going to court back then was terrifying simply based on the fact that I'm a man and father of 2 young children. Thought for sure the legal system would just brush me aside and due to that feeling in the early stages I made sure to record EVERY financial thing I did. Be it things I bought for my kids, spent on daycare or supplied their mother in child support (that wasn't even legally obligated yet, I just took it upon myself to start it from the charges used). 

Even while I was going through the process, one thing really stood out to me. The amount of times someone would hear that I'd settle for nothing less than 50/50 custody and respond with "That's great. Good for you. Being a father who wants to be involved" like it was some sort of option just because I'm male. Ruffled my feathers something fierce for a while.

Fact is, there's still a stigma when it comes to men expressing themselves in anything other than a grunt or groan. If a man were to express how he was *emotionally* mistreated, a lot of people don't know how to respond to that. 

Which is why as a divorced male, I've taken a proud role in sharing my experiences with other men and when they react in a way that's clearly due to social 'standards' I just let them know if they ever want to actually feel better about themselves, to try opening up.


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## Runs like Dog

for the same reason that Hollywood movies generally enoble women who cheat.


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## lifeistooshort

Runs like Dog said:


> for the same reason that Hollywood movies generally enoble women who cheat.


Ha ha ha ha ha, because men NEVER cheat in movies.

Hollywood men NEVER go through the bimbo du jour.

Just saying.


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## lifeistooshort

Maybe partly based on he historical reality that women were much more vulnerable is a divorce because they didn't have any options to take care of themselves.

This is changing of course but social change take time, often generations.


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## warshaw

Wolf1974 said:


> Because it's like above 70% of divorces are filed by women. You always advertise to the client base.


The topic wasn't about hiring divorce attorneys, or "how to divorce" resources, it was about the suffering related to divorce so if anything, given the higher divorce filing statistics of women, it would be the guys doing the suffering.


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## Wolf1974

warshaw said:


> The topic wasn't about hiring divorce attorneys, or "how to divorce" resources, it was about the suffering related to divorce so if anything, given the higher divorce filing statistics of women, it would be the guys doing the suffering.


Yes actually that is exactly what the topic was about, "divorce industry" how to prevent it, and how to accomplish it. As others have said women typically seek resources first on how to fix marriages, they also file for divorce more often so they look to get out of bad marriage more often. So if they are your target market you advertise for them

It's in the thread title!!!


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## warshaw

Wolf1974 said:


> Yes actually that is exactly what the topic was about, "divorce industry" how to prevent it, and how to accomplish it. As others have said women typically seek resources first on how to fix marriages, they also file for divorce more often so they look to get out of bad marriage more often. So if they are your target market you advertise for them
> 
> It's in the thread title!!!


I was reading the first post, the part about where it said "resources are focused on divorced women. Divorc*ED* as in, they're already divorced, and looking for support resources, not looking to file for divorce. 

But anyway, yes most divorces are filed by women and it wouldn't surprise me if divorce attorneys advertised in places that would most likely be seen by women.


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## Wolf1974

warshaw said:


> I was reading the first post, the part about where it said "resources are focused on divorced women. Divorc*ED* as in, they're already divorced, and looking for support resources, not looking to file for divorce.
> 
> But anyway, yes most divorces are filed by women and it wouldn't surprise me if divorce attorneys advertised in places that would most likely be seen by women.


Ahh I gotcha now. I guess I read the title and thought they referenced women getting divorced not already divorced. Or preventing divorce. I know as a guy when I got divorced I read a few book about getting back to single life after divorce so I thought those "self help books" were on par with the after divorce books for women.


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## EleGirl

warshaw said:


> The topic wasn't about hiring divorce attorneys, or "how to divorce" resources, it was about the suffering related to divorce *so if anything, given the higher divorce filing statistics of women, it would be the guys doing the suffering*.


That assumption is based on assuming that the one who files for divorce is the "wrong doer" or the one who actually wanted the divorce.

It's not always the one who leaves, or the one who is cheating, or the one who has been the destructive spouse who files for divorce.

It's very often the more economically dependent spouse who files first.

Often times women file because the husband is gone and she is left with the children to take care of. And their father is not helping with the children. So she files to get child support, custody and time-sharing established.

A lot of men who earn less than their wife, will not file for divorce even after they leave the marital home because they know that until there is a court order telling them to start paying support, they do not have to pay a penny.... not in child support and not to support a wife who has been a SAHM or does not earn much.

Even out the financial income of spouses, and you'll even out who files first.

And by the way, who files first means nothing. It does not tell us if the person who filed first I the initiator of the choice to divorce or if it was an equal decision.


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## EleGirl

There are more support type resources for women after divorce because women seek out support to a much larger degree than men do.

But there are resources for men. And if men start spending more on support, the market will grow.

It's market driven.


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## JukeboxHero

lifeistooshort said:


> Ha ha ha ha ha, because men NEVER cheat in movies.
> 
> Hollywood men NEVER go through the bimbo du jour.
> 
> Just saying.


Idk if he's saying men don't cheat in movies. I think it's more how Hollywood portrays them. I'm not sure if this has always been the case, but I've noticed lots of movies portray cheating men as terrible, evil bastards but when a woman has an affair it's like "Oh, you sly, naughty, devil, you". Again, I'm not saying every movie is like that, but with shows like Mistresses and Desperate Housewives, it seems to forming a trend.


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## Holland

IME divorce is a very level playing field of hurt, anger and blame shifting. Now that is out of the way I will say that I think some of the issues expressed here are cultural, ie an issue with the American culture.

In Aussie the bulk of divorces are jointly filed.
50/50 shared care is not something anyone has to fight for, it is considered standard and most of those that do not take up the option do it for their own reasons such as it not suiting their work or life schedule.
Financial splits are done on a fair standard formula taking into account what each bought into the marriage, number and age of kids, future earning capacity etc.

The poor me, it is all the women's fault might make some feel better about themselves but it really isn't very proactive. Look closer at your culture and not a specific gender. If other countries can have a fair and equitable system, why can't you guys?


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## EleGirl

Holland said:


> IME divorce is a very level playing field of hurt, anger and blame shifting. Now that is out of the way I will say that I think some of the issues expressed here are cultural, ie an issue with the American culture.
> 
> In Aussie the bulk of divorces are jointly filed.
> 50/50 shared care is not something anyone has to fight for, it is considered standard and most of those that do not take up the option do it for their own reasons such as it not suiting their work or life schedule.
> Financial splits are done on a fair standard formula taking into account what each bought into the marriage, number and age of kids, future earning capacity etc.
> 
> The poor me, it is all the women's fault might make some feel better about themselves but it really isn't very proactive. Look closer at your culture and not a specific gender. If other countries can have a fair and equitable system, why can't you guys?


The system here is not as unbalanced as some seem to want to make it sound.

For example we hear all the time about how men are bled dry with alimony. Well that's strange since alimony comes into play in only about 15% of divorces and in most cases it's for a women who has been a SAHM for 10 years or more... she gets rehabilitative alimony so she can get training and a job. IN some states it's almost impossible to get alimony. In others it's something like half the length of the marriage up to 10 years of marriage. After that things come into play... like is she 60 and has she been a SAHM for 35-40 years... the courts don't want her thrown out on the street with nothing as much as it seems some husbands do. 

Once she is self supporting, the alimony either ends or is reduced according to income.

When it comes to child custody and time sharing, more and more 50/50 is the norm in the USA. People.. men and women are pushing for this. I think it's what's good for the children.

There is a victim mentality being pushed.. that's about it.


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## arbitrator

EleGirl said:


> That assumption is based on assuming that the one who files for divorce is the "wrong doer" or the one who actually wanted the divorce.
> 
> It's not always the one who leaves, or the one who is cheating, or the one who has been the destructive spouse who files for divorce.
> 
> It's very often the more economically dependent spouse who files first.
> 
> Often times women file because the husband is gone and she is left with the children to take care of. And their father is not helping with the children. So she files to get child support, custody and time-sharing established.
> 
> A lot of men who earn less than their wife, will not file for divorce even after they leave the marital home because they know that until there is a court order telling them to start paying support, they do not have to pay a penny.... not in child support and not to support a wife who has been a SAHM or does not earn much.
> 
> Even out the financial income of spouses, and you'll even out who files first.
> 
> And by the way, who files first means nothing. It does not tell us if the person who filed first I the initiator of the choice to divorce or if it was an equal decision.


*And with extremely rare exception do the courts ever inject themselves into using "infidelity"  per se  into any divorce matter, more especially in the advent of "no-fault" divorce law trending!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ynot

IDK about pushing any victim mentality on my part. I simply think that society as a whole as different expectations of men and women on this issue. As others have said societal change takes time. In many ways both the institutions of marriage and divorce are premised on the ideals of a time that has passed and do not necessarily address modern day realities. Both industries reflect this trend in part due to the fact while times have changed our social mores have not quite caught up to them.


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## toonaive

Wolf1974 said:


> Because it's like above 70% of divorces are filed by women. You always advertise to the client base.


I think its really more this.


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## Ynot

toonaive said:


> I think its really more this.


Here come the old "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" argument. Did the divorce industry cater to women because they file over 70% of the time or do women file over 70% of the time because the divorce industry caters to them?

To me it goes back to my original statement. In today's society women are "empowered" to be independent, self sufficient, stand on their own, "I am woman, hear me roar!" . Women hear these messages and are motivated to do things for themselves. There are very few similar messages out there for men. Popular culture portrays men as weak, stupid and helpless. It is no wonder they majority of divorces are filed by women and the majority of those are filed by women in long term relationships.


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## Wolf1974

Ynot said:


> Here come the old "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" argument. Did the divorce industry cater to women because they file over 70% of the time or do women file over 70% of the time because the divorce industry caters to them?
> 
> To me it goes back to my original statement. In today's society women are "empowered" to be independent, self sufficient, stand on their own, "I am woman, hear me roar!" . Women hear these messages and are motivated to do things for themselves. There are very few similar messages out there for men. Popular culture portrays men as weak, stupid and helpless. It is no wonder they majority of divorces are filed by women and the majority of those are filed by women in long term relationships.


I agree. While their are a ton of relationship improvement books out there the divorce process is a money making machine for governments and lawyers. I have said before that I think if marriage, as a whole, is ever going to survive in any form that it will need to be completely removed from government and become a strictly religious status. You will still need the courts to determine child custody though so you can never completely remove it I suppose.


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## tom67

Wolf1974 said:


> I agree. While their are a ton of relationship improvement books out there the divorce process is a money making machine for governments and lawyers. I have said before that I think if marriage, as a whole, is ever going to survive in any form that it will need to be completely removed from government and become a strictly religious status. You will still need the courts to determine child custody though so you can never completely remove it I suppose.


:iagree:
If you can stomach it watch this Home | Divorce Corp
a 51 billion dollar a year industry.
I had to turn it off when a guy in Pa got ZERO custody of his two little girls because he had a blog that the judge didn't like.:surprise:


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## Tulanian

arbitrator said:


> *And with extremely rare exception do the courts ever inject themselves into using "infidelity"  per se  into any divorce matter, more especially in the advent of "no-fault" divorce law trending!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The exception being that it's not unusual for a state's laws to provide that in order to get alimony the spouse has to be legally free of fault. Someone who committed adultery wouldn't be, nor would an abuser or one who shut off all marital relations for a protracted period of time.



EleGirl said:


> The system here is not as unbalanced as some seem to want to make it sound.
> 
> For example we hear all the time about how men are bled dry with alimony. Well that's strange since alimony comes into play in only about 15% of divorces and in most cases it's for a women who has been a SAHM for 10 years or more... she gets rehabilitative alimony so she can get training and a job. IN some states it's almost impossible to get alimony. In others it's something like half the length of the marriage up to 10 years of marriage. After that things come into play... like is she 60 and has she been a SAHM for 35-40 years... the courts don't want her thrown out on the street with nothing as much as it seems some husbands do.
> 
> Once she is self supporting, the alimony either ends or is reduced according to income.
> 
> When it comes to child custody and time sharing, more and more 50/50 is the norm in the USA. People.. men and women are pushing for this. I think it's what's good for the children.
> 
> There is a victim mentality being pushed.. that's about it.


Since I'm the OP, maybe I can clarify what I meant. I wasn't referring to the legal system being balanced towards women, or to men not getting custody or paying too much support or any of that. I was referring to the post-divorce resources out there.

I think several posters have pretty much identified the reasons why post-divorce support seems to focus more on women: 1) Because women are on the whole at least somewhat more inclined to buy the self-help books, attend the group sessions, see the private therapist; and 2) Because men wanting much less needing outside support isn't consistent with the way our culture views masculinity. 

I've never bought into typical ideas of what it "should" mean to be masculine. Probably because I have four older sisters and pulling the gender card with them would never have worked. Funnily enough, I've never wanted to. They prepared me to go out into the dating world, at least insofar as I've always tried to be as good to women as I would want some other man to be to one of my sisters. So I don't shy away from support because it would lessen my self-perceived "manhood." 

I do tend to shy away because reaching out to people in general isn't easy for me (I'm on the spectrum). I have great friends, but I have to actively make myself go to them and say "I'm really having a hard time with this." For twenty years, the one person I went to when I was having a hard time was my ex. I built my entire life around her and the kids, never worried about socializing outside of the family. In retrospect, that was a mistake. I should've been more well-rounded.

I found a good therapy group, not one specific to divorce issues but overall a bunch of people that make me feel comfortable enough to talk about the break-up. So there's that. 

I'd love to see more articles addressing the ways that men grieve and cope with divorce. I'd like to see more online forums that are geared towards men dealing with divorce but aren't anti-woman. I'm not sure that I'd necessarily buy self-help books for divorced men, but then I'm really bad about reading those. I have The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I'm pretty sure one of those would include reading past the first page. Same goes for the various books I have on dealing with autism in the workplace.



Holland said:


> IME divorce is a very level playing field of hurt, anger and blame shifting. Now that is out of the way I will say that I think some of the issues expressed here are cultural, ie an issue with the American culture.
> 
> In Aussie the bulk of divorces are jointly filed.
> 50/50 shared care is not something anyone has to fight for, it is considered standard and most of those that do not take up the option do it for their own reasons such as it not suiting their work or life schedule.
> Financial splits are done on a fair standard formula taking into account what each bought into the marriage, number and age of kids, future earning capacity etc.
> 
> The poor me, it is all the women's fault might make some feel better about themselves but it really isn't very proactive. Look closer at your culture and not a specific gender. If other countries can have a fair and equitable system, why can't you guys?


I can't speak for anyone else, but you definitely won't hear ME saying that divorce in general is "all women's fault" and I would never, EVER, claim that my wife is solely to blame for our split. I wouldn't even say she's predominantly to blame. I've put her through a lot, and she stayed years longer than the majority of people probably would have.

I don't think one needs to have a victim's mentality in order to wish for more available resources. You can see yourself as fully responsible, or jointly responsible for what happened, but still feel like you could use some help dealing.


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## EleGirl

Tulanian said:


> Since I'm the OP, maybe I can clarify what I meant. I wasn't referring to the legal system being balanced towards women, or to men not getting custody or paying too much support or any of that. I was referring to the post-divorce resources out there.


Oh, I understood what you were asking. 

Often times the topic of discussion on threads meanders all over the place. This is certainly did take a side road to talk about women filing for divorce more often than men. So I addressed that.


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## Faithful Wife

Tulanian said:


> I'd love to see more articles addressing the ways that men grieve and cope with divorce. I'd like to see more online forums that are geared towards men dealing with divorce but aren't anti-woman.


Have you checked out the forum at DivorceBusting.com - Forums powered by UBB.threadsâ„¢

They are about trying to avoid divorce, but so many people end up divorced even though they are there, that mostly the members are people who are going through a divorce. The gender mix seems pretty balanced, and there are many men who openly discuss their real and raw emotions.


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## Holland

Tulanian said:


> ....
> 
> ............................
> I'd love to see more articles addressing the ways that men grieve and cope with divorce. I'd like to see more online forums that are geared towards men dealing with divorce but aren't anti-woman. I'm not sure that I'd necessarily buy self-help books for divorced men, but then I'm really bad about reading those. I have The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I'm pretty sure one of those would include reading past the first page. Same goes for the various books I have on dealing with autism in the workplace.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else, but you definitely won't hear ME saying that divorce in general is "all women's fault" and I would never, EVER, claim that my wife is solely to blame for our split. I wouldn't even say she's predominantly to blame. I've put her through a lot, and she stayed years longer than the majority of people probably would have.
> 
> I don't think one needs to have a victim's mentality in order to wish for more available resources. You can see yourself as fully responsible, or jointly responsible for what happened, but still feel like you could use some help dealing.



In that case I would again suggest this is possibly a cultural problem. Here in Aussie ALL parents that are divorcing are required (but cannot be legally forced) to go through a Govt. funded "parenting through divorce" short course. There is info and support given which is gender specific and in equal amounts to both men and women. We have a Govt funded relationships support service which is accessible by ALL residents.

I am surprised if you are saying your Govt does not offer any support to men. Do they simply provide no support services or are they all for women only? If that is the case then you lot need to get involved, protest or whatever works there.


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## EleGirl

Holland said:


> In that case I would again suggest this is possibly a cultural problem. Here in Aussie ALL parents that are divorcing are required (but cannot be legally forced) to go through a Govt. funded "parenting through divorce" short course. There is info and support given which is gender specific and in equal amounts to both men and women. We have a Govt funded relationships support service which is accessible by ALL residents.
> 
> I am surprised if you are saying your Govt does not offer any support to men. Do they simply provide no support services or are they all for women only? If that is the case then you lot need to get involved, protest or whatever works there.


I too would be interesting in what resources he thinks are not available.


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## Wolf1974

Holland said:


> In that case I would again suggest this is possibly a cultural problem. Here in Aussie ALL parents that are divorcing are required (but cannot be legally forced) to go through a Govt. funded "parenting through divorce" short course. There is info and support given which is gender specific and in equal amounts to both men and women. We have a Govt funded relationships support service which is accessible by ALL residents.
> 
> I am surprised if you are saying your Govt does not offer any support to men. Do they simply provide no support services or are they all for women only? If that is the case then you lot need to get involved, protest or whatever works there.


Can't speak to everywhere but in Colorado thier is mandatory child parenting classes. You don't have to attend with your x but you do need to get credit for attending the class prior to the approval of the divorce.

The governments have zero vested interest in providing any counseling to men or women. They are fine taking thier cut of things and making decisions in your personal life. I can understand what he is saying though because I also struggled to find resources for emotional well being during divorce. Women typically have a better social network and more friends to talk with. I really had no one to talk to. I don't work at a job where you can talk about these things and when I tried to talk to my friends and family they were freaked out how broken I was. More than once I heard "dude I really don't know what to say to you, you're like the strongest person I know and to hear you like this is scary". So I stopped talking. Around that time I found TAM but didn't post for about 2 years for fear of being ridiculed, And I'm glad now knowing how things are around here. what I did find really comforting is that I wasn't alone and that others were going through this same thing.

So I wish I had made more healthy decisions but like many guys hurt from being cheated on and no one to really talk to I turned to women and went way out of character trying to fill the void. When I realized that wasn't helping and I didn't like what I had become I finally went and got professional counseling because I needed some one to talk to .

Some here scoff at counseling but it worked wonders for me. I just needed to talk to someone and vent some, needed someone to get my head twisted on right and I was good to go. 

Culturally men don't talk about thier feelings and I doubt that's going to change anytime soon, but it needs to. Some things are overwhelming and you can processes them along no matter how strong you are.


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## EleGirl

I did a quick search on google: "Colorado divorce support group for men"

On the first page, with the first few hits that came up are dozens. Most seem to be gender neutral. A few are for men only or women only.

I doubt that there is any state in USA does not have a lot of support resources available for a person getting a divorce regardless of gender. 

It is true that some have to be paid out of pocket. Low income people can usually get lower fee or no cost at some of the groups.

https://groups.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_results.php?city=Denver&county=Denver&state=CO&spec=26

Men's Support Groups Meetups in Denver - Meetup

https://groups.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_results.php?city=Colorado+Springs&spec=26

Colorado Center for Life Changes

http://www.divorcecare.org/groups/search


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## Wolf1974

EleGirl said:


> I did a quick search on google: "Colorado divorce support group for men"
> 
> On the first page, with the first few hits that came up are dozens. Most seem to be gender neutral. A few are for men only or women only.
> 
> I doubt that there is any state in USA does not have a lot of support resources available for a person getting a divorce regardless of gender.
> 
> It is true that some have to be paid out of pocket. Low income people can usually get lower fee or no cost at some of the groups.
> 
> https://groups.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_results.php?city=Denver&county=Denver&state=CO&spec=26
> 
> Men's Support Groups Meetups in Denver - Meetup
> 
> https://groups.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_results.php?city=Colorado+Springs&spec=26
> 
> Colorado Center for Life Changes
> 
> http://www.divorcecare.org/groups/search


Thanks but I don't live in Denver and didn't 4 years ago either. When I checked for resources back then in my area nothing.


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## jb02157

I think this is mainly because women are always though of as the lovely little darlings that are always the ones who are wronged in a divorce. Men are supposed to just be able to handle everything that comes there way with the help or advice of others.


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## Wolf1974

jb02157 said:


> I think this is mainly because women are always though of as the lovely little darlings that are always the ones who are wronged in a divorce. *Men are supposed to just be able to handle everything that comes there way with the help or advice of others.*


*
*

I agree with this but this is also really up to us as guys to change. If every divorcing guy tomorrow started calling for help the industry would boom but they don't so it won't. Part of my personal problem was over a 10 year marriage and 14 year relationship I left many of my friendships go. I had one really good female friend who I could have likely talked to but we had lost touch and have since reconnected. In the last 4 years I have strengthened my friendships and made some new ones. If I broke up with my GF today I know I could reach out to any of them and talk about it if I needed to. Just didn't have that so much 4 years ago. Women for the most part just have the easier time talking to thier friends about this stuff cause it's acceptable to do so. 

I remember when I had this conversation with my GF a long time ago who she talked to when she found out her x husband was cheating. She said at some point I think I talked to all my close friends, sister and mom about this. So I asked...what does that mean like 10 people, and she said closer to 30 :surprise:

My total number was 3, best friend, brother and mother before I went to counseling. Some of this we have to get better at as a gender in my opinion


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## Tulanian

Wolf1974 said:


> [/B]
> 
> I agree with this but this is also really up to us as guys to change. If every divorcing guy tomorrow started calling for help the industry would boom but they don't so it won't. Part of my personal problem was over a 10 year marriage and 14 year relationship I left many of my friendships go. I had one really good female friend who I could have likely talked to but we had lost touch and have since reconnected. In the last 4 years I have strengthened my friendships and made some new ones. If I broke up with my GF today I know I could reach out to any of them and talk about it if I needed to. Just didn't have that so much 4 years ago. Women for the most part just have the easier time talking to thier friends about this stuff cause it's acceptable to do so.
> 
> I remember when I had this conversation with my GF a long time ago who she talked to when she found out her x husband was cheating. She said at some point I think I talked to all my close friends, sister and mom about this. So I asked...what does that mean like 10 people, and she said closer to 30 :surprise:
> 
> My total number was 3, best friend, brother and mother before I went to counseling. Some of this we have to get better at as a gender in my opinion


I'm somewhat resistant to counseling, not on gender grounds but because A) I'm a "fixer," and endlessly talking about something that can't be fixed feels useless somehow; and B) I've spent a long time in therapy trying to get at least a basic diagnosis for the things that challenge me, and the most I've gotten is that I'm complicated. FFS, really?!?


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## Wolf1974

Tulanian said:


> I'm somewhat resistant to counseling, not on gender grounds but because A) *I'm a "fixer," *and endlessly talking about something that can't be fixed feels useless somehow; and B) I've spent a long time in therapy trying to get at least a basic diagnosis for the things that challenge me, and the most I've gotten is that I'm complicated. FFS, really?!?


I get this, I'm the same way. I was blindsided by her accounts of how she was unhappy and wanted to divorce. So initially I went in to "fix it" mode to figure out 1) why was she suddenly unhappy 2) why had she lied so many times when I asked if we are good and she said yes instead of the truth. Then D day comes and you find out it's all about her affair and she is leaving us for another guy. 

Was nothing left to fix it was done. 

Where counseling helped me was to accept that it was indeed over and that I had to move on to a new life cause the old one was dead. This was the area I couldn't get my head around. I never give up on anything but I had to let this go. So for me this worked big time. No time was spent on false forgiveness or it will be better soon, time heals all, none of this.. It was: that is done, you did you best and it didn't work out, it happens and Now you have to move forward. That I understood.

So for me it worked. I know it doesn't work for everyone. And I should add I did no go willingly lol. Was ordered there by my boss. I would add that each counselor probably varies by a lot. This woman I saw was a specialist with type A personalities and only worked with city fire and police. Nothing got by her and she knows how to speak our language.


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## Ynot

Tulanian said:


> I'm somewhat resistant to counseling, not on gender grounds but because A) I'm a "fixer," and endlessly talking about something that can't be fixed feels useless somehow; and B) I've spent a long time in therapy trying to get at least a basic diagnosis for the things that challenge me, and the most I've gotten is that I'm complicated. FFS, really?!?


A) the thing about counseling has nothing to do about talking. It is all about listening, especially to your self. If you listen to your self tell your story the way you imagine it to be, you start to realize that it doesn't always make a lot of sense
B And this is where a good counselor comes in handy. The counselor should question some of your assumptions and conclusions to make you think about them more. Rather than try to fix you or diagnose you, they really should guiding you towards fixing yourself. Go find a better counselor.


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## EleGirl

Wolf1974 said:


> Thanks but I don't live in Denver and didn't 4 years ago either. When I checked for resources back then in my area nothing.


Those links had support groups in many different places in Colorado. Not just Denver. Durango, Telluride, Pueblo, Grand Junction Centennial, etc, etc

Apparently they have sprung up all over the place in Colorado now. So at least any guy from Colorado reading here knows that there are currently support groups, counselors, etc that are available to men.


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## Wolf1974

EleGirl said:


> Those links had support groups in many different places in Colorado. Not just Denver. Durango, Telluride, Pueblo, Grand Junction Centennial, etc, etc
> 
> Apparently they have sprung up all over the place in Colorado now. So at least any guy from Colorado reading here knows that there are currently support groups, counselors, etc that are available to men.


were always counselors available, I went to one and found several of those. Just not peer based support groups. Hopefully that will be a changing trend for the better. I did a search for my area and not many available but a couple who do meet once a month. Better than the options I had a couple years ago. And still changes need to be made with us just talking with friends. In all reality what I really needed was to vent I think...


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## EleGirl

Wolf1974 said:


> were always counselors available, I went to one and found several of those. Just not peer based support groups. Hopefully that will be a changing trend for the better. I did a search for my area and not many available but a couple who do meet once a month. Better than the options I had a couple years ago. And still changes need to be made with us just talking with friends. In all reality what I really needed was to vent I think...


One thing that people can do is to start a group on meetup.com professionally lead groups are not always needed. Like you said, sometimes there is just a need to vent.


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