# Expecting fidelity



## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

Seeking input, thoughts on the following:

"It is selfish to deny sex and expect fidelity in return, especially without conversation. It is even worse when the withholding partner openly prefers pornography to the woman he married". P. 149, _"Why Men Stop Having Sex"_ by Berkowitz and Yager


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Sandy55 said:


> Seeking input, thoughts on the following:
> 
> "It is selfish to deny sex and expect fidelity in return, especially without conversation. It is even worse when the withholding partner openly prefers pornography to the woman he married". P. 149, _"Why Men Stop Having Sex"_ by Berkowitz and Yager


Within the last couple of months my wife and I emerged from 2+ years of a non sexual marriage. By her choice not mine. Was she being selfish, no, she carried plenty of guilt about it. Were there conversations, yes. Was I tempted to cheat, no just took longer showers.  The lack of sex was due to a lack of emotional connection with me. The second statement in the OP I believe is more damaging than my circumstances. To deprive one’s spouse because you prefer another source of sexual pleasure would be very disrespectful in my mind.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I agree that it is selfish to deny sex (assuming the denial comes even though the denier is sexually attracted to the other).

Fidelity, however, should be expected UNTIL the partner who has been denied sex makes it clear that s/he will seek out others, while filing for divorce. That puts the denier on notice--you have a chance to straighten up or I'm done. Of course, the partner may already be "done" by the time s/he reaches this point, which makes the question of fidelity moot. I don't believe it's "cheating" if it doesn't involve deception and if the denier refused to change his/her behavior. The marriage vow was broken when the denier acted so selfishly.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Sandy55 said:


> Seeking input, thoughts on the following:
> 
> "It is selfish to deny sex and expect fidelity in return, especially without conversation. It is even worse when the withholding partner openly prefers pornography to the woman he married". P. 149, _"Why Men Stop Having Sex"_ by Berkowitz and Yager


that pretty much sums up the first three years of my relationship. 

in regards to "is it selfish to deny sex and expect fidelity in return"- that's kind of a blanket statement. i think it depends on the situation.


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## nightshade (Mar 4, 2009)

Yeah, I too think it would depend on the situation slightly. If one is denying sex due to a disconnection somewhere else in the marriage, I don't think that is selfish. 

It could be selfish in some circumstances, but I would expect fidelity until the other person left the relationship.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

It is a touchy situation. If the partner is going through physical/mental issues that do not allow sex to be an option how can you fault them??? 

As for the porn.. I like porn but I would rather look at my wife. I look at porn as purely an alternative to my wife. Not a replacement image in my head. We have done video's and I can tell you I like looking back at them more then seeing another women. It is better for me. Maybe cause I am in love with my wife so much.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

Sandy55 said:


> Seeking input, thoughts on the following:
> 
> "It is selfish to deny sex and expect fidelity in return, especially without conversation. It is even worse when the withholding partner openly prefers pornography to the woman he married". P. 149, _"Why Men Stop Having Sex"_ by Berkowitz and Yager


do you realise the quote assumes the one denying sex is a man

and as to the larger issue of sex denied i reflect back to 'the best won war is a war never fought'.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

If a couple places a high value on sex and many do.. and many marry on these terms... they will have many problems in the marriage until it crumbles away.
I see too many people get married for the wrong reasons and place a very high value on the sex act. Over my 50 years of life I have watched these marriages dissolve over and over and over again.
More so when the people are under age 35....

As far as why men stop having sex, I will tell you the number one reason... and trust me its a stupid one in my eyes but I find it to be true.....
men are visual and when their wives gain weight ( we are talking lots, like 40 or more pounds) they lose interest in sex. More so when they married based upon sex.
They can be fat, slovenly slobs themselves but they like their wives to be slim. Big troubles arise when a woman gains weight.

I can't explain all the psychology of it, but I find it to be a truth in life. A guy can weigh 300 pounds and if a woman is 20 pounds overweight he will say she is overweight or put her down for it... it's just crazy but the way it is.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Preso it is odd how that happens but not ALL men are the same. Yes there are so many that are and I call those guys shallow.. You are doing an act thats emotional based. I don't think I full understood that. At least in my younger years. I have recently told my wife. I don't care what you lok like on the outside. I want what is on the inside. I said sexy is an attitude and if your heavy or slim you can have it. I rather have a heavy women who wants me and wants to make me happy then a skinny women who doesn't. Maybe its the fact am getting older. I do love a nice sexy shaped women don't get me wrong but I don't put 100% into it. Mind and Soul have to be there too.. 


BTW I think I feel into what you said about married for the sex. We were young and she paid a lot of attention to me but as we stayed together I enjoyed the rest of her.. Any changes she had or developed I was ok with..


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Loving Husband said:


> Preso it is odd how that happens but not ALL men are the same. Yes there are so many that are and I call those guys shallow.. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I believe most people are.
> ...


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## NothingMan (Jul 16, 2009)

Just to be the exception to the rule I'll tell you that when my wife put on 35 pounds I found her to be even more attractive then ever. Course, she was pregnant at the time but weight is weight and during that time I thought she was more sexy then she had ever been.



John


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Next reason a man will stop wanting sex is because after a certain age he may lose the ability, more so if he has been a long time smoker or has certain chronic illness.
Often then he will blame his wife rather than admit its him.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

There are many variables.

But sandy From where I stand from it is usually the woman that denies man sex and then he turns to porn, strippers, etc.

Why do some women stop wanting their men Preso? Some on here posted they can not stand their man for what ever reason.

This is not a man issue nor a woman issue, there is no "grand answer" there is no puzzle to solve.

Everyone is different and every marriage is different and unique. Everyone has their things that make them "tick" 

I've come to learn that marriage is a compromise it is negotiations, it is give and take by both parties, pick your battles, don't always be the 'winner" learn to win some and lose some.

By as Preso said, if my wife was to get huge I would be turned off by her sexually. I am a very visual person with a high libido. My wife knows this, She also knows that I take great pride in her beauty, now she is no glamor queen, she is very down to earth a natural beauty, but she is petite and always has been. So am I.

I have always been skinny, and as you can see I posted a thread on "getting back in shape" I am not huge, thin to most...but to me...I am overweight for "me" I want the six pack abs, I want the muscle definition, etc. My wife likes it as well. Now for my wife, I don't ewxpect her to ever go to "model" status, but not overweight, she is in a "good" range right now, I am happy with who she is and has become as the mother of my three children. I understand the "pouch" that women get after giving birth, not a big deal to me as it is to my wife, same for the stretch marks. Sometimes women are their own worse enemy in that area. I could care less, but my wife brings it up when she is in a bikini..I tell her she looks hot, she doesn't see it that way, she see's a pot belly and stretch mark, I see nice butt and huge boobs ...so we think different...lol

Bottom line it boils down to the couple. If you don't communicate your feelings then they will never know. If you stay quiet and never say a word resentment grows.

Honest and open communication is the key to a happy marriage.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

preso said:


> Not many men going to be thrilled their wives gained 40 pounds you can bet on that.
> and many will lose sexual interest in her if she does.
> The only exception to that would be the very lonley man... as most men want a woman of healthy weight.
> .
> ...



Hmmmm! Didn’t know that the majority of my brethren and I were of such a pathetic, hermit like, childish and boorish sex. :scratchhead: But glad you managed to grab the brass ring. Thanks for the clue in.

I’ll pass on countering the other stereo types here and address the desire for sex. My wife is at her highest weight of her life and she is unhappy with it. Some of the lack of sex is due to the weight. Her discomfort with her weight, not mine. Would I prefer she were slimmer, sure but, I desire her as much as I did when we were young. Are men visual, yes but all the Pam Andersons, Megan Foxes or the hotties at the office are nothing more than eye candy. It’s not about weight or the looks when it comes to sex with a spouse. It’s about commitment, love and the desire one has for them because they are emotionally tied to them. I don’t see the extra pounds when I look at her, I see the woman I married and am sharing my life with. That’s where the arousal comes from, not the physical. 

Or maybe you’re right, I’m just a hard up, pathetic, lonely loser.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

I have to be honest. The idea of a man not wanting sex with his wife is completely foreign to me. I simply don't understand it.

When my wife and I married, she was a size 8. I could have had sex with her every day, twice on Sunday . As far as I was concerned, she was a complete hottie. That she was happy with maybe once a week killed me. Sexually, I was almost insane with frustration.

After kids, she was a size 14. I could have had sex with her every day, twice on Sunday. As far as I was concerned, she was a complete hottie.  That she was happy with sex once ever few months killed me. I figured it must be something wrong with me. Goodbye self esteem.

Now, she is a size 10. I could have sex with her every day, twice on Sunday. That she seems happy with sex a few times a year kills me. 

So no...I don't get why a man would not want sex with his wife. I do get what it feels like to be denied, and it stinks.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Sandy55 said:


> Seeking input, thoughts on the following:
> 
> "It is selfish to deny sex and expect fidelity in return, especially without conversation. It is even worse when the withholding partner openly prefers pornography to the woman he married". P. 149, _"Why Men Stop Having Sex"_ by Berkowitz and Yager


I would turn the tables on the first statement and say that it is selfish to be denied of sex and seek infidelity without a conversation. While the denier may be (I stress _may be_because I think it depends on the situation) selfish so is the denied who considers cheating without discussing the problem. It takes two to make it or break it in every relationship. 

As to the second statement I would be seriously hurt if my H preferred pornography to me and denied me sex because of it, there is something seriously wrong if that’s going on. That’s not to say a little pornography isn’t okay, it’s when it replaces the wife that I see it becoming a problem.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I hope to God preso isn't right and that "most" men turn off sex with their wives b/c of her weight gain. To be "visual" means, that vision is often the inital contact/form of attraction. To argue that men turn off their wives because they are "visual" suggests that men are shallow--and frankly, I don't think most men ARE that shallow. 

There is a point at which either sex can become visually and sexually unappealing, I suspect, because of morbid obesity. But such obesity generally tends to obscure the body's natural, sexual contours (like waist-to-hip ratio on a woman, which is generally the main visual criteria men cue on, according to studies). There is SO much more to sexual attraction than mere slimness (from a man's perspective) that any man who is turned off his wife merely because of her weight gain would be, in my opinion, a man to LEAVE.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

recent_cloud said:


> do you realise the quote assumes the one denying sex is a man
> 
> and as to the larger issue of sex denied i reflect back to 'the best won war is a war never fought'.


Yes, I think this quotation was intended to promote discussion of men denying sex and also male use of pornography. 

But really, what is "denying sex?" Refusing to have sex for any reason? The phrase implies, to me, that there is an intent to use sex as a weapon. Is it denying sex if you are just not in the mood? Insisting on sex when someone does not WANT it is, to me, like forcing sex on someone. Who really wants to do that? 

And please, do not confuse "wanting to please one's partner" with "wanting to have sex." They are two very, very different things. If a partner does not want to have sex, the sex will not be pleasurable (even with orgasm). Having sex without the desire is like being forced to overeat your favorite food--yeah, it tastes good going down, but leaves one upset and uncomfortable afterwards. 

This, of course, gets at the core issue: Why wouldn't someone want to have sex with their partner? If we could answer that question, we'd all be billionaires, wouldn't we?


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

well Sister those are HER words not us males, remember she is very self Concious of her weight (AS I am) Not evryone is like that, But if my wife who I married at 98Lbs size 2 ballooned up to 200Lbs size 14/16 or whatever and I am still a walking stick figure...I would have issues with it. My wife is currently 112LBS and size 8, sexy as ever, to me she is super hot right now. 

On the flip side, my wife's sister is HUGE...But she was not always that way, but the man she married views fat women as a sign of "wealth" that a large women means her husband is rich...yea I know reason is out the window, but he LOVES her HUGE he would be disappointed if she wasn't.

She is sick, she has diabetes, she gets easily winded ashamed to go out anywhere, very low self esteem. He see's nothing wrong, her family is in shock, but say nothing including my wife. I feel bad for her she is slowly killing herself to make him happy.

She should leave him to save herself, but I was told to mind my own business, which is sad.

MY goal is more to keep my wife HEALTHY then glamorous, I want her around as long as possible, some people confuse "leaving for weight" then leaving becuase the other doesn't give a damn about themselves, how can they give a damn about me and the kids? 

No excuse to be Obesse, (I am not talking Big boned here) Stay within a healthy weight for your body size, that is all.


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## NothingMan (Jul 16, 2009)

WantsHappiness said:


> I would turn the tables on the first statement and say that it is selfish to be denied of sex and seek infidelity without a conversation. While the denier may be (I stress _may be_because I think it depends on the situation) selfish so is the denied who considers cheating without discussing the problem. It takes two to make it or break it in every relationship.
> 
> As to the second statement I would be seriously hurt if my H preferred pornography to me and denied me sex because of it, there is something seriously wrong if that’s going on. That’s not to say a little pornography isn’t okay, it’s when it replaces the wife that I see it becoming a problem.



How would you feel if you found out your husband turned to pornography because you denied him? Im not trying to be a wise-guy, but when my wife turns me down (often) I turn to the porn as a release.



John


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

NothingMan said:


> How would you feel if you found out your husband turned to pornography because you denied him? Im not trying to be a wise-guy, but when my wife turns me down (often) I turn to the porn as a release.
> 
> 
> 
> John


Well that’s a totally different situation. What I was referring to was the situation as quoted where the man prefers porn to his wife and denies her sex because of it.

To answer your question, if I found out my husband had turned to porn because I repeatedly denied him sex I would feel that I wouldn’t have any legitimate recourse against his porn use (rightfully so). In fact I would probably feel guilty for driving him to it. That’s supposing of course that we had tried to work through the issues that were causing the denial of sex in the first place, just to muddy it up a little bit for ya


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