# The beginnings of resentment



## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

I have had quite a bit on my mind about my marriage lately, but at the moment, the topics of resentment and double-standards are first and foremost. As I think about the topics more, I realize they are part of the same problem. Anyway, here’s what’s on my mind:

My wife and I have been together a little over two years, married only a few months. Things have always been a little rocky with us (see this thread for more info on that http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/301482-opinions-my-wifes-bahavior.html), but the good has always outweighed the bad. Hence, here we are now in both of our second marriages. She has two children and I have two children. Her children stay with us 100% of the time and my children are with us 50% of the time.

I can feel the twinge of resentment beginning to creep in. I have been here before and I know this is not a good place to be and this will only get worse if the problem is not resolved. What makes this issue more difficult is that I feel I cannot discuss my feelings openly with my wife without her becoming extremely angry with me, and throwing all civility out of the window while we try to ‘talk’. Any time we try to talk about anything serious like this, she escalates the disagreement to saying hurtful things like, “Why don’t you just go f$ck the waitress from the other night? I’m sure you’d be happier with her anyway.” or saying that she may have made a mistake marrying me and that she would be happy if she was alone.

One problem is the way she allows her children to rule the house, and my children are relegated to second-class citizens while they are with us. Here are a few examples:

- Our children come home in the afternoon after school and stay with a sitter until my wife gets home from work (my wife and I work together, but she leaves work first). Her son (who is 13) comes home and begins eating almost continually until she gets home. He will work his way through an entire bag of chips or box of goldfish in one or two afternoons. I approached my wife and asked if she would speak to him about moderation and she responded that he is a growing boy and if he is hungry, she is not going to tell him he cannot eat something. However, the other day we got home and an entire new bag of chips had been eaten in one afternoon. We asked the children what happened, and her son blamed it on my daughter (age 10) saying she ate the entire bag in one sitting. My wife pulled me aside and said, “You need to talk to her. She doesn’t need to eat an entire bag of chips in one afternoon.” While I do agree with the idea, I don’t like how it is unfairly directed at my child only. I responded, “Why it is OK for XXX (her son) to eat a box of goldfish in one afternoon but YYY (my daughter) cannot have chips?” She responded, “There is a big difference in chips and goldfish. Chips are junk and goldfish are at least a little healthy.” I told her that was BS and that each were junk food, but either way, I wouldn’t tell her she couldn’t have anything since she doesn’t with her son. I also told her that didn’t sound like anything my daughter would do. This caused a big argument between the two of us, with her accusing her son of being a lair (which he is prone to do, and she will admit that when it suits her). We went back to talk to both of them about the situation and I pressed her son a little more. He finally admitted that he helped with eating the bag of chips… and in creeps a little resentment…

- Her children are unruly and both have had behavioral problems in school. These behavioral problems carry over into the home, with them both not doing what they are asked to do, and often outright telling my wife or me ‘NO!’ or being very argumentative when asked or told to do something. When they do this to me or my wife, I look at my wife, the expression on my face saying, “Are you going to allow them to talk to you/me/us like that?” Each time, the answer is ‘yes.’ She will usually placate them by saying she will get them a treat if they do what she wants. Her son will often get in trouble at school, or at home, and lose his privileges for a day or a week or a month, whatever the time is. She will say, “That’s it. Your privileges are gone for 1 week, and I MEAN IT this time.” However, we all know she will forget about it and he will be right back at his video games in two days, sometimes not even that long. It’s interesting, because she will ask me questions like, “Why are my kids so bad? Am I doing something wrong?” And I will sometimes (when I am feeling particularly fed up with the situation) give her honest feedback such as illustrating that her children know she will not hold them accountable for their actions, and they know there are no consequences for their behavior. She gets upset at this, and just argues with me saying she is busy or tired and just doesn’t have the energy to stay on top of them all the time. She will usually lash out at my kids in this situation, saying something like, “OH, AND YOUR KIDS ARE PERFECT?!” in a sarcastic tone? To be fair, both of her children have been diagnosed with ADHD and mine have not. On the other hand, if my daughter gets sassy with me, my wife will pull me aside and DEMAND I punish her. She will demand that I not let her talk to us, and have respect for us…and in creeps a little more resentment…

- And money, don’t get me started on money. She will spend hundreds of dollars on her daughter and clothes, shoes, underwear, haircuts, etc… but if I say I need to get my daughter socks or more pants or whatever, she will say to me something like, “Does she really need that?” … more resentment…

Another problem is that I am a clean and orderly person and she is an absolute mess. Now, I knew this going into the marriage, so this one is sort of on me, but the problem comes in when I try to clean (I also end up doing her kid’s chores because she doesn’t make them do them), she will get upset at me and ask me why I am cleaning all the time. She says that it makes her feel guilty and she doesn’t like it. Before we got married, she said to me, “I hope you don’t get upset with me when I don’t clean.” I responded, “I hope you don’t get upset with me when I do.” She asked why I thought she would get upset at me for cleaning, well, this is exactly what I meant. Often times I will get home from work and the kitchen and house will be a wreck. I will proceed to clean it up until about 10pm, because if I do not, no one will. I also clean the toilets, vacuum and sweep the floors, etc… on the weekends while she sits around playing games on her iPhone.

There are plenty other examples of these types of double standards and issues causing resentment to creep in, but I am going to leave it here for now. I found out in my other thread that she acts like this because I allow her to. I allow her to act like this and she has lost respect for me. I have purchased No More Mr. Nice Guy as was advised, and hope to start reading it soon. Maybe I was just posting this to vent, but maybe I can get some good insight as I did with my last post.

Thanks for reading and thanks even more for any help.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

What prompted this post was a conversation I had with my wife here at work. She asked me point blank, "Why are you not as close with XXX (her son) as you used to be?" I thought to myself, crap, we are going to have this conversation now, at work? Great." I then decided to bite the bullet and answer her honestly.

I told her that he is combative, rude, argumentative, and at 13, should know how to behave at home and in school. I told her that he constantly argues with me and blames me and everyone else for the things that go wrong in his life. I said that I have tried to help him, and talk to him about how to better interact with people, and that all he wants to do is argue with me and tell me how I am wrong and he is right. I saw a familiar look wash across her face, as if she was going to cry, but she knew I was right. She didn't want to continue the conversation anymore.

Then I got this message from her via messenger:

"i do not blame you. I dont want to be around XXX either. I dont want to talk to him
I have no idea what to do
he is nasty, talks back constantly, he is rude and inconsiderate and demanding"

She then proceeded to tell me she believes he also has Oppositional Defiant Disorder.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You say the good has always outweighed the bad. What constitutes the good? What makes up the bad?

Just remember that your children are taking notes and will have a very long memory. Will 'the good' make up for your children being treated like red-headed step-children?


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> You say the good has always outweighed the bad. What constitutes the good? What makes up the bad?


The good: when things are good, they are pretty good. We have a good time together, enjoy each other's company, sex is good, she has a VERY sharp business sense, she is intelligent and very witty, and our likes and dislikes are very similar.



> Just remember that your children are taking notes and will have a very long memory. Will 'the good' make up for your children being treated like red-headed step-children?


I struggled with this while she and I were dating, and still do. My daughter didn't like coming over to our house because she felt like they couldn't be themselves there, and were always having to live by my wife's rules. To a certain extent, this is understandable, but what I really think she was saying is that she felt the disparity between how my wife's children were treated and how they were treated. I have made quite a bit of progress in changing the situation for my children and my daughter doesn't feel this way as strongly anymore, but I know it is still there to some degree.

You make a very going point here, though.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

13 year old boys are very very difficult to deal with, not all but a lot. They are smug, rude, arrogant, argue, don't listen, and all around a chore to be around. For a good 18 months I couldn't stand being around my own son, it sounds terrible but it's true. I couldn't hold a conversation with him. Asking him to do ANYTHING became exhausting, everything was an argument, he took offense to everything. He's 15 now and a totally different kid, he just grew out of it. It's one of those things where you just need time and for them to adjust to their changing hormone levels.

As for the rest I don't live in a blended family but I imagine it must be very straining on a marriage.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Just these sentences throw up enough red flags for a Communist Party meeting:

"What makes this issue more difficult is that I feel I cannot discuss my feelings openly with my wife without her becoming extremely angry with me, and throwing all civility out of the window while we try to ‘talk’. Any time we try to talk about anything serious like this, she escalates the disagreement to saying hurtful things like, “Why don’t you just go f$ck the waitress from the other night? I’m sure you’d be happier with her anyway.” or saying that she may have made a mistake marrying me and that she would be happy if she was alone."

When a woman says that, she is telling you that she has contempt for you, as she wouldn't do that if she respected you.

I wouldn't put up with that from my wife.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> 13 year old boys are very very difficult to deal with, not all but a lot. They are smug, rude, arrogant, argue, don't listen, and all around a chore to be around. For a good 18 months I couldn't stand being around my own son, it sounds terrible but it's true. I couldn't hold a conversation with him. Asking him to do ANYTHING became exhausting, everything was an argument, he took offense to everything. He's 15 now and a totally different kid, he just grew out of it. It's one of those things where you just need time and for them to adjust to their changing hormone levels.
> 
> As for the rest I don't live in a blended family but I imagine it must be very straining on a marriage.


I agree with what you are saying, on both points. My response to her message to me was:

"I fully believe this is partly his age
I know that and understand that
I think as parents we go through a period of not wanting to be around our kids
I think it is natural
I do not love him any less
Actually, I love him alot
And I try to be very understanding of his situation
I am not delusional though, I know we will go through this wtih YYY and ZZZ (my daughter and son)
XXX (her son) just happens to be here right now"


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Just these sentences throw up enough red flags for a Communist Party meeting:
> 
> "What makes this issue more difficult is that I feel I cannot discuss my feelings openly with my wife without her becoming extremely angry with me, and throwing all civility out of the window while we try to ‘talk’. Any time we try to talk about anything serious like this, she escalates the disagreement to saying hurtful things like, “Why don’t you just go f$ck the waitress from the other night? I’m sure you’d be happier with her anyway.” or saying that she may have made a mistake marrying me and that she would be happy if she was alone."
> 
> ...


When she starts saying things like this, I know the argument has degraded to a point that reason is no longer an option until she calms down, so I calmly tell her that I am going to go for a drive, and that I will be back when she can have a civil conversation. She absolutely hates when I do not stoop to her level, and she will say, "Oh there you go again, walking out when we are trying to have a conversation."

I have often asked her about the frequency of her irritation and anger with me, she dismissed the idea and tells me I am reading her wrong.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Quick point- could she have ADD too? The disorganization, the inability to follow through and feeling busy all the time even when you aren't doing much and the fact that both her kids have it could be an indication of it. 
There's so much more going on but I wanted to get that out there. I have a kid with ADD, he's 13 as well and it's exhausting and requires a lot of organization I have often wondered if I also have ADD because of certain inabilities I have.

But aside from that, and that's a small issue anyway compared to the other crap going on, the double standards are not ok. Since you guys haven't been married very long it gets really tricky dealing with someone else's kids. You may just not be compatible in the long run. How you raise the kids and run the home are pretty important things to be on the same page on.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Quick point- could she have ADD too? The disorganization, the inability to follow through and feeling busy all the time even when you aren't doing much and the fact that both her kids have it could be an indication of it.


Very good observation, and I believe yes, she very well could have ADD. She is always talking about her 'squirrel' moments (a reference to a dog that is in the middle of something, then totally distracted by a squirrel).



> But aside from that, and that's a small issue anyway compared to the other crap going on, the double standards are not ok. Since you guys haven't been married very long it gets really tricky dealing with someone else's kids. You may just not be compatible in the long run. How you raise the kids and run the home are pretty important things to be on the same page on.


It has definitely been more difficult blending the families than I had anticipated. My fault there, although I asked her many times to go to MC before we got married so we could figure these things out in advance. She took offense, saying it was ridiculous for us to be in MC so early on in our relationship.

I honestly think I can deal with the mess. We will hire a housekeeper at some point, I'm sure. The issue with the children is what worries me more. She has finally said we will just have to agree to have different rules and standards for all of the kids, since she and I do not agree often. I am certain that won't work out well.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

breathedeep said:


> When she starts saying things like this, I know the argument has degraded to a point that reason is no longer an option until she calms down, so I calmly tell her that I am going to go for a drive, and that I will be back when she can have a civil conversation. She absolutely hates when I do not stoop to her level, and she will say, "Oh there you go again, walking out when we are trying to have a conversation."
> 
> I have often asked her about the frequency of her irritation and anger with me, she dismissed the idea and tells me I am reading her wrong.


Now I'm concerned about BPD. Have you read up on that?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

ADD can have anger symptoms as well
10 Adult ADHD Symptoms: Disorganization, Recklessness, and More

_ADHD often leads to problems with controlling emotions. Many people with adult ADHD are quick to explode over minor problems. Often, they feel as if they have no control over their emotions. Many times, their anger fades as quickly as it flared, long before the people who dealt with the outburst have gotten over the incident._


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Now I'm concerned about BPD. Have you read up on that?


Yes, I have made myself aware of BPD since she and I have been together. Also Narcissistic Personality Disorder. She exhibits traits of both. It's frustrating because one minute she can be telling me how much she loves me, how much she never wants to be without me, and then the next I may have phrased a question the wrong way, or given her a look she didn't approve of, and she is telling me how terrible I am.

This past weekend happened to be one of our better weekends. Good sex, lots of together time, affection, laughing and playing. Monday night we fell asleep holding each other. By Tuesday afternoon, she was telling me how lonely she is and how she feels unloved, unwanted. I received this message from her today at work:

"i am missing you like crazy
I feel so down"

I went to talk to her about it as soon as I received it. I asked what was causing her to feel like this. We are together all the time. We had a great weekend. I pointed out all of the wonderful things that happened between us this weekend. Her response, "I didn't say my feelings were rational."


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> _ADHD often leads to problems with controlling emotions. Many people with adult ADHD are quick to explode over minor problems. Often, they feel as if they have no control over their emotions. Many times, their anger fades as quickly as it flared, long before the people who dealt with the outburst have gotten over the incident._


This is exactly her. She has said that her therapist has commented on how quickly she can get over her anger.

Many times, she will absolutely lose her temper at me, her kids, my kids, and two minutes later, she is ok, and we are all left like, "WTF just happened?" She tells me it takes me entirely too long to get over our arguments. This may be true, but sometimes it can be alot to digest when your new wife tells you she made a mistake marrying you.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Good luck. Is it too late to get an annulment?


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Good luck. Is it too late to get an annulment?


Thanks.

An annulment isn't really on my radar, nor is divorce. I made a decision and plan on sticking with it (for better or worse, and all that...); I am now searching for the tools and knowledge to help make the situation better.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

breathedeep said:


> Thanks.
> 
> An annulment isn't really on my radar, nor is divorce. I made a decision and plan on sticking with it (for better or worse, and all that...); I am now searching for the tools and knowledge to help make the situation better.


*If *she has a cluster B personality disorder, there is absolutely nothing you can do to make it better. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life walking on eggshells?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

breathedeep said:


> This is exactly her. She has said that her therapist has commented on how quickly she can get over her anger.
> 
> Many times, she will absolutely lose her temper at me, her kids, my kids, and two minutes later, she is ok, and we are all left like, "WTF just happened?" She tells me it takes me entirely too long to get over our arguments. This may be true, but sometimes it can be alot to digest when your new wife tells you she made a mistake marrying you.


That is black/white splitting. It will not get better by itself, and it's almost impossible for cluster B types to be helped by therapy, because they blame others for their problems.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

In my opinion, you married too soon, she comes with a lot of baggage, and she is not willing to compromise or find a solution to any problem. Is this what you want for your life and your children? Blended families without these issues have a hard time, you are in for more than you bargained for, I imagine.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

She also may be going through the beginnings of menopause. And coupled with possible ADHD and possible BPD can be an extremely toxic ****tail of emotional distress. Yes, 13 year old boys can be rather difficult (been through it myself)...they think they know everything and are invincible. You have to keep them in check constantly. And consistency in disciplining is key also. Maybe family counseling together to help each of you handle the blended family situation and get your communication with each other back on track. Once you are on the same page with each other, I have a feeling things start running a little more smoothly with the family unit and improve in your relationship also.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

Lukedog said:


> She also may be going through the beginnings of menopause. And coupled with possible ADHD and possible BPD can be an extremely toxic ****tail of emotional distress. Yes, 13 year old boys can be rather difficult (been through it myself)...they think they know everything and are invincible. You have to keep them in check constantly. And consistency in disciplining is key also. Maybe family counseling together to help each of you handle the blended family situation and get your communication with each other back on track. Once you are on the same page with each other, I have a feeling things start running a little more smoothly with the family unit and improve in your relationship also.


Great insight! Thank you. You are correct that she may be in the beginning stages of menopause as she is 40 (soon to be 41). I have read about the issues this can cause as you described, but have never thought about living through them; it always seemed like something that happens to other older couples. I guess I am beginning to fall into that age bracket whether I like it or not.

Sometimes I wonder why I don't think of these things. I guess that is why I visit this forum. Thanks for your comments.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

breathedeep said:


> Lukedog said:
> 
> 
> > She also may be going through the beginnings of menopause. And coupled with possible ADHD and possible BPD can be an extremely toxic ****tail of emotional distress. Yes, 13 year old boys can be rather difficult (been through it myself)...they think they know everything and are invincible. You have to keep them in check constantly. And consistency in disciplining is key also. Maybe family counseling together to help each of you handle the blended family situation and get your communication with each other back on track. Once you are on the same page with each other, I have a feeling things start running a little more smoothly with the family unit and improve in your relationship also.
> ...


40 is awfully young to be blaming stuff on menopause. The common range is 48 to 55, and 51 is the average age of menopause.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Family counseling. 

You just CAN'T have two sets of rules. 

There are tons of sights out there with "family rules", or how-to's to create your own family rules. Ways for y'all to compromise. I get that she doesn't want to compromise....but it's so going to suck for you two, let alone for the kids. 

For example:
Family Rules & Setting Limits | Empowering Parents

But I still agree that y'all need counseling. This is both of yours second marriage, you should know how NOT to argue, or actually how to argue productively. It shouldn't get ugly. If she won't go to counseling, start without her and see if you can get her to join you at some point.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I entered Peri-menopause when I was 41-42. Know many women who hit it early. Her doctor can order a test to check her hormones which will help to diagnose.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Don't blame your situation on menopause. She is too young. It's called being in a blended family and they are stressful and have a high divorce rate. You knew she wasn't a clean person before you got married, so you can't complain (or nag as men like to say women do) about it now. Clean if you like a clean house but don't complain about having to do it. Hiring someone if a good idea. Leave the disciplining of her children to her. They aren't going to listen to you anyway as "You aren't my Dad". You knew about her children's behavior before you married her so this is your life (as they don't need to go through another family breakup) make the best of it.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

Happilymarried25 said:


> Don't blame your situation on menopause. She is too young. It's called being in a blended family and they are stressful and have a high divorce rate. You knew she wasn't a clean person before you got married, so you can't complain (or nag as men like to say women do) about it now. Clean if you like a clean house but don't complain about having to do it. Hiring someone if a good idea. Leave the disciplining of her children to her. They aren't going to listen to you anyway as "You aren't my Dad". You knew about her children's behavior before you married her so this is your life (as they don't need to go through another family breakup) make the best of it.


I agree on all points, and even mentioned this is the first post. I do not nag her about cleaning. I simply do it myself and move on.

As far as the children go, I also agree with you about disciplining them. I do not discipline them. Even though she tells me, "You are their parent now. You need to discipline them.", I have learned my lesson not to do that long, long ago. My real problem comes in when there are double standards where her children get away with swearing at her or me, refuse to behave, and are generally unruly, yet if my children leave a pair of socks on the floor, she acts as though they have committed a capital offense.

Another example - my wife's daughter is very physical and will often bite, kick, or punch kids in her class or even my kids. One day, she kicked my son in the face and bloodied his lip. He is 8, so naturally he was crying and came to me to tell me what happened. My wife got involved and was asking her daughter what happened. She told him she kicked him in the face because he had a toy she wanted. I was waiting for her to punish her daughter, but her response was to chastise my son for not giving her daughter her toy back. I pulled my wife aside and told her that maybe he should have given the toy to her, or maybe she should try to share, but she should also not kick someone in the face because they have something of hers. She responded to me, "She didn't even kick him very hard. If he would use chap stick on his lips so they aren't cracking, it wouldn't have even been bloody." This set me off and we ended up in a huge fight over this.

However, one day a few months later, my son and her daughter were playing and he hit her in the the arm. They both stated it was an accident, but I had my son apologize to her anyway. My wife didn't think this was sufficient, and continued to claim it may have been on purpose and that he needed to be punished.

Family counseling sounds like the way to go, but she has not been receptive to the suggestion in the past. Maybe next time will be different.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

My first question would be why wasn't any of this hashed out before you got married? You never visited her house and saw the mess there? Her kids didn't act up around you before you got married? You didn't see her double standard with the different sets of kids? It seems you must have turned a blind eye then and now you are trying to make accomodations after the fact. You are in a tough situation. I would say your whole family needs counseling because it appears the battle lines have already been made.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Two words: Marriage Counseling.

Sadly, all these issues with step kids and blended families are the reason why second marriages have a higher divorce rate than first marriages!

You state that annulment and divorce are off the table... you have made a commitment to stick this out regardless. Yet your own son was kicked in the face (bloody lip) by your step daughter, not to mention she bites, kicks, and punches kids at school?

You are seriously letting your children down by staying in this mess. You have chosen your new wife and her tyrants over your own children. Very sad indeed.

On second thought, forget marriage counseling. Get yourself into individual counseling to figure out why you are willing to tolerate this hellish behavior and subject your children to it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Sane women have sex too, ya know. Please don't put your bedroom life ahead of your children's needs.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

Ynot said:


> My first question would be why wasn't any of this hashed out before you got married? You never visited her house and saw the mess there? Her kids didn't act up around you before you got married? You didn't see her double standard with the different sets of kids? It seems you must have turned a blind eye then and now you are trying to make accomodations after the fact. You are in a tough situation. I would say your whole family needs counseling because it appears the battle lines have already been made.


The mess is not a big deal. I clean and do all the chores around the house and have been for my entire adult life. I will eventually get a housekeeper so I don't have to do the cleaning anymore.

The kids, yes, I saw this and married her anyway. I was stupid and thought that she would make them respect me and the house and rules more after she and I got married; up to that point, I was simply the boyfriend in her house and had no right to make or enforce rules there. I naively thought that once we had our own house together, I could make and enforce rules. Now all this does is foster more resentment from her because I am making rules for her kids, and from me towards her because she doesn't make her kids follow rules. Before getting married, she and I did talk about the kids and raising them, and I (again, naively) thought we had worked through everything. I was wrong.

This weekend was another difficult one between she and I; my children were with us and that is typically when things get the most stressed and tense. We ended up arguing most of the weekend, and then capping it off with another HUGE argument last night. She defaulted to her now go-to declarations of her feeling like we made a mistake getting married, and how she would be happy alone. Once things calmed down a bit, I asked her if she would go to family and marriage counseling with me, and she would not agree to it. I told her that I was going to go for myself then. She thought that was a good idea because she feels I have quite a bit to work out with myself. I don't disagree with her.

Happy as a clam - I made the decision to marry my wife and I want to honor my commitment. I don't want another failed marriage and I do not want to put my children or hers through yet another upheaval. I believe that she and I can work things out so that we are all happy again. I don't want to throw in the towel so easily without trying to fix the problem(s).


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

I have been reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and have been feeling pretty good about the ideas and concepts in the book. I am definitely text book 'Nice Guy', including many of the no-so-nice traits. Wanting to be open and talk about this with my wife, I tell her on the way home from work tonight that I have been thinking about things and would like to talk to her and get her thoughts.

So, we get home and as I am making dinner, I begin telling her that I have been reading something that has opened up my eyes to some of my behavior that is causing problems in our relationship, and my relationship with other people (work, friends, etc...). I begin describing to her some of the things I have read in the book, but haven't yet told her where the ideas are coming from. She stops me and asks where I am getting this stuff from, and I tell her I had started reading a book called No More Mr. Nice Guy. At that point, I see an instant change in her facial expression and demeanor, and I ask her what's wrong. She asks me to repeat the name of the book, and I tell her again. She proceeds to tell me that she is very familiar with the book, and the guy who wrote it. She says he is notorious among her Narc (narcissist) board friends and that he pretty much instructs guys on how to mistreat women and be a$*holes. She tells me that she is VERY uncomfortable with me reading this book, and that just the thought makes her want to 'majorly freak out'.

I try to explain to her that what I've read so far seems very applicable to me/us and could be extremely helpful to us. I explained how it talks about my propensity for passive aggressiveness, avoiding conflict, etc... and that it discusses techniques to reduce that type of behavior (which she and I both agree are not healthy).

She went on to say that she was previously married to an a$*hole, and she wouldn't do that again.

I said if it worries her so much, she and I can read it together and discuss each section, talking about what we agree with and do not agree with. She said that would be fine if only I could see it from her perspective and not think that she was disagreeing with the book because it was beneficial for her to do so.

I told her that I was simply trying to figure out how I can be better in our marriage and in my other relationships, and she told me that the book was known for its abusive mentality towards women and advocated woman-hating, but if that is what I wanted to become, she wouldn't be able to stop me and I would do with the information what I wanted anyway.

At this point, I am exasperated with the situation...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

breathedeep said:


> I have been reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and have been feeling pretty good about the ideas and concepts in the book. I am definitely text book 'Nice Guy', including many of the no-so-nice traits. Wanting to be open and talk about this with my wife, I tell her on the way home from work tonight that I have been thinking about things and would like to talk to her and get her thoughts.
> 
> So, we get home and as I am making dinner, I begin telling her that I have been reading something that has opened up my eyes to some of my behavior that is causing problems in our relationship, and my relationship with other people (work, friends, etc...). I begin describing to her some of the things I have read in the book, but haven't yet told her where the ideas are coming from. She stops me and asks where I am getting this stuff from, and I tell her I had started reading a book called No More Mr. Nice Guy. At that point, I see an instant change in her facial expression and demeanor, and I ask her what's wrong. She asks me to repeat the name of the book, and I tell her again. She proceeds to tell me that she is very familiar with the book, and the guy who wrote it. She says he is notorious among her Narc (narcissist) board friends and that he pretty much instructs guys on how to mistreat women and be a$*holes. She tells me that she is VERY uncomfortable with me reading this book, and that just the thought makes her want to 'majorly freak out'.
> 
> ...


 If this was a mutual help book, cool, you tell your wife. This book is to help you recognize some of your weaknesses and help make you more attractive and assertive IN THE RIGHT times. Why are you seeking your wife's approval? All you did now, is sabotage any attempt you had for using this book to help with your situation. Anything you do know is going to be blamed on the book.

Please don't give me the I am open and honest answer. There is nothing wrong with reading a book for yourself without your wife's knowledge. My wife doesn't tell me about every love language article, book or test she ever reads.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Hello, BD. 

You must have reached to the part where he suggest you tell your partner. LOL. Most reformed NGs would have advised you against it. Have patience, putting yourself right is a process. It will not happen overnight. Pay attention to yourself and your improvements right now, not her. Look to yourself for validation. Do you have a safe person to talk things out with? 

The book is a good start but, but it doesn't give you all. Here are others recommended by former NGs.

The Way of the Superior Man

Boundaries in Marriage

The 5 Love Languages

BTW, Real men aren't a$$holes and they don't mistreat their wives.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

breathedeep said:


> She stops me and asks where I am getting this stuff from, and I tell her I had started reading a book called No More Mr. Nice Guy. At that point, I see an instant change in her facial expression and demeanor, and I ask her what's wrong. She asks me to repeat the name of the book, and I tell her again. She proceeds to tell me that she is very familiar with the book, and the guy who wrote it. She says he is notorious among her Narc (*narcissist*) board friends and that he pretty much instructs guys on how to mistreat women and be a$*holes. She tells me that she is VERY uncomfortable with me reading this book, and that just the thought makes her want to 'majorly freak out'.


She belongs to a board for *narcissists*? I don't see where you mentioned that before.

I'm afraid that is much worse than a red flag.

It is impossible to satisfy a narcissist. You will be in a world of hurt until you get her out of your life.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

technovelist said:


> She belongs to a board for *narcissists*? I don't see where you mentioned that before.
> 
> I'm afraid that is much worse than a red flag.
> 
> It is impossible to satisfy a narcissist. You will be in a world of hurt until you get her out of your life.


Sorry - I didn't clearly express what I was trying to write.

What I mean was, her ex husband is a diagnosed narcissist (so she says), so she belongs to a 'narc' board for people who were or are married to narcissists. Apparently No More Mr. Nice Guy is a frequent topic of discussion there, and sends up big red flags to all of the women on the board.

As to the other comments above, thank you. I always appreciate your thoughts. I will respond as soon as I can. I am downstairs exercising and she is now texting me that she needs to talk to me, so off I go...


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

breathedeep said:


> Sorry - I didn't clearly express what I was trying to write.
> 
> What I mean was, her ex husband is a diagnosed narcissist (so she says), so she belongs to a 'narc' board for people who were or are married to narcissists. Apparently No More Mr. Nice Guy is a frequent topic of discussion there, and sends up big red flags to all of the women on the board.
> 
> As to the other comments above, thank you. I always appreciate your thoughts. I will respond as soon as I can. I am downstairs exercising and she is now texting me that she needs to talk to me, so off I go...


I see; that is a bit different but still pretty weird.

Anyway, having a negative reaction to "No More Mr. Nice Guy" is in itself a red flag to me. Most women have a visceral dislike for men who act that way, and prefer men who act more masculine. I would be very suspicious of a woman who prefers a doormat...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Interesting. Be very careful dude, you are sitting on a powder keg of drama.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

Interesting discussion. She wanted to make sure I know she loves me just how I am (she really poured on the compliments - great husband, great father, best friend, etc...) and doesn't want us to lose who we are and what we need from each other by talking to counselors or reading self-help books.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Interesting. Be very careful dude, you are sitting on a powder keg of drama.


It's been alot of drama for quite some time now. I always attributed it to her ex though. He is a particular special brand of pain in the a$s.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

breathedeep said:


> It's been alot of drama for quite some time now. I always attributed it to her ex though. He is a particular special brand of pain in the a$s.


The irony is, from your own words, your wife sounds like one as well. 

So, she can use a board to vent and discuss issues, but you aren't allowed to read a book?

I will say one thing, continue to put your own kids second to your marriage and her kids, don't be surprised if they disown you. I know people who have and a few horror stories on this board as well. I know she is 10, but resentment starts early.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

" and doesn't want us to lose who we are and what we need from each other by *talking to counselors or reading self-help books."
*
She is scared to death that you might learn something. She thinks that she has you sufficiently under her control and doesn't want anyone or any thing to throw a monkey wrench into her creation.


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## Tall (Feb 19, 2014)

You need to *lead*.

Trust in your own opinions about right and wrong, and state those opinions. Make judgments, and communicate those judgments. Do not stand down from arguments, but remain calm. 

State your expectations, to your wife and to all the children. Tell them what they should do. Do not trade for favours as a means to implement your will. Your judgments should be respected as they are, you do not need to explain or justify.

Put divorce on the table. You are a man of your word, and you don't want to do it. But it has to remain an option at all times, or others will exploit your goodwill.

Trust in your own ability to be right, and communicate an expectation that others follow your *lead*.


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## Coachme (Sep 9, 2015)

This sounds like you really want to stay together and make it work, but are struggling with what you should do. It seems that you are both doing the best you can in a situation that brings challenges, but you can use these challenges to bring you closer together rather than to build resentment. I can make a few suggestions, for your consideration.
One. You could take some time to think about your wife, what is it that you most admire about her, what is it about her that you couldn’t live without, what attracted you to her, what are some funny memories, what are her strengths, what is she good at, for example. It would be great if you could write these down and carry them around with you all the time, eg in your wallet. Flood yourself with positive experiences. Then commit to taking time each day to reflect one of these things back to her, unexpectedly and preferably in front of all or most of your children. This would be perfect to do when your pre-teenage son is causing a disturbance. Break the pattern or interaction by saying something that you admire in your wife, describe when you first met, how you felt on your wedding day, grab her hand and do a dance with her etc.
Two. Learn to focus on what you want to see and not what you don’t want to see. Play close attention to your wife and praise her when she interacts with your children the way you like or when she disciplines the way you would like. Don’t tell her what you want to see, but acknowledge what she is doing that you like and make a big deal about it out aloud. Even if it is something small, like giving them a hug, you could say something like “I really like how affectionate you are with our kids”. 
Three. Now I know that this will be difficult initially, but you could support all the parenting decisions she makes when you are in front of your kids. Show her that she is most important and you trust her judgement, decisions and ability. You still have the opportunity to discuss parenting further with her when your children aren’t present, but while they are present, put on a united front and support her in what she says and what she does. The reason why I suggest this is because if you try it for two weeks you will probably find that this will strengthen your connection with your wife, it will provide consistency for your children and following this, you will be more likely to discuss and agree on rules and expectations for your children that can apply to each of them equally.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

This feels like sugary ick to me...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

how do your discussions get out of control? is this mostly her doing or is it mutual.

I know a whole family like this. It occurred to me they were getting off on the drama. Google anger and adrenaline. Keep it to yourself. you both need to work on yourselves AND do marriage counseling.


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## breathedeep (Nov 8, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> how do your discussions get out of control? is this mostly her doing or is it mutual.
> 
> I know a whole family like this. It occurred to me they were getting off on the drama. Google anger and adrenaline. Keep it to yourself. you both need to work on yourselves AND do marriage counseling.


It typically happens very quickly, with me saying something in a discussion that she doesn't agree with, her then saying, "FINE!" then storming off yelling at me as she goes upstairs, slams our bedroom door, and sits on the bed crying. I will go in to talk to her, and she will begin insulting me, telling me she made a mistake marrying me, or that I should just go f&ck the waitress from the other night or find some random ***** to be with because I am obviously not happy with her. When she starts saying hurtful things like this to me, I have the choice to either engage with her, or walk out until things cool off. Often times, I know when she is like that, there is no talking to her, so tell her I am leaving until things cool off and I walk out, but that only sets her off more, and she begins calling me a coward and a pu$%y, and that I run away anytime things get heated. Not wanting to be a coward or a pu$%y, i come back and indulge her argument. Either that or I continue out the door, get in my car, and go away for a while, meanwhile I am getting a barrage of texts saying that I am abusing her by leaving her and giving her the silent treatment. It is a no-win situation.

You are spot on in your last sentence, and it looks like she may finally agree to go that route. I am hopeful.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

See, I hate the misuse of the word ABUSE. I'd never stay with a woman who uses it as a weapon to control a relationship. She calls you a cowards, a p$#sy and generally emasculates you, but not engaging in the fight is abusive? Come on dude, you need to get out of this relationship. She needs anger management, but would never get it.


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