# Expenses Sheet for mediation?



## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Can anyone offer any advice here.

Have to complete an expenses sheet tonight or this weekend for mediator and he recommends we work on it together so no time wasting with padded expenses in the session to argue about on Monday.

We have one each and there are columns for just about everything you can think of including haircuts, Beauty treatments, eating out, entertainment, vacations etc this will then be used to determine a need for Alimony, was hoping some people on here have some advice on the best way to tackle it?

I will be keeping house so my expenses should be straight forward although it wants expenses broken down into personal and then a portion for Children so how do you allocate a portion of the mortgage for example to children who I will be having 50% of the time? She will be downsizing to a new house about half the size.

Also regarding STBXW haircuts, waxing, nails and various other beauty treatments she has monthly do they really count and if she wants to put all them down should I add every BS expense I have to my list? really don't want to get in a huge conflict with her but really don't feel like any of those items warrant a real expense that i should have to continue to cover going forward.

What has everyone else experience been like in this situation?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Doesn't the state have an alimony formula?

I'd be careful about getting into an argument over what's warranted and what's not. If the state doesn't have a formula I'd do it based on a percentage of income.

What she does with the money is her business. What beauty treatments are necessary are no more your business then what beer you want to buy is her business.

This is exactly why child support is formulaic as opposed to listing expenses.....too much opportunity to fight about what's "necessary" by one who doesn't want to pay and the other who wants to get someone else to pay.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I negotiated by giving her 0 alimony but paying for her mortgage, car payment, bills, etc for 6 months after divorce. It's all a wash and made it super easy and I got the tax deduction for mortgage interest. 

Child Support was a formula, no negotiating there. Just keep telling yourself....divorce is expensive because it's WORTH IT!!! And also remind yourself the kids will get older and this is just temporary... seeing those automatic withdraws every 2 weeks going to her sucks. I just don't look at my bank account anymore.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Doesn't the state have an alimony formula?
> 
> I'd be careful about getting into an argument over what's warranted and what's not. If the state doesn't have a formula I'd do it based on a percentage of income.
> 
> ...


Nope there is no state formula to use so it goes on if 'needed' and what is a needed Item, i guess it depends on who you ask? I would say house(suitable) and utility bills, car(suitable), food and equivalent health insurance, I would not class manicures/pedicures, hair coloring or waxing a "needed' item I would class them as a luxury item and if she can't afford them I really don't feel like I should have to be on the hook for it just as I would not expect her to be on the hook for any luxury item I wanted if roles were reversed. 

I just feel like this and maybe I need to get over it but she has not helped or supported my career, she has her own career, is educated and still young, will be receiving a decent child support payment with 50% custody and if she wants a divorce then she doesn't get to receive the extra financial benefits of the marriage, stupid comparison but I feel like its the equivalent of me divorcing her and still expecting her to still do my laundry and clean the house (she doesn't anyway just an example)

Sorry for the rant I am just bitter as you can probably tell :smile2:


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> I negotiated by giving her 0 alimony but paying for her mortgage, car payment, bills, etc for 6 months after divorce. It's all a wash and made it super easy and I got the tax deduction for mortgage interest.
> 
> Child Support was a formula, no negotiating there. Just keep telling yourself....divorce is expensive because it's WORTH IT!!! And also remind yourself the kids will get older and this is just temporary... seeing those automatic withdraws every 2 weeks going to her sucks. I just don't look at my bank account anymore.


 @GuyInColorado the child support portion does really not bother me much even though it will be for 12 years :surprise:, we are going to do 50/50 and she will still receive a healthy amount but Alimony really bothers me, like I mentioned above if you not in the marriage you shouldn't get the benefits of the marriage, the government doesn't just allow you the same tax breaks because you 'used' to get them, I am not going to be receiving any benefits of the former marriage, we both adults and I feel she should taker care of herself once we split.

I am going IC tonight maybe I need to talk about it with him as it is really frustrating me.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

For things that are really hard to split - don't. People asking for your financial information understand this. The house, the utilities, the car - really hard to split between parent and children.

Food, clothing, maybe phones, should be splittable.

I don't know the purpose of the upcoming meeting, but I'm assuming what you put on this sheet is not final, and there will be discussions.


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## ResignedWife (Jan 20, 2017)

That's weird - the only paperwork our mediator required was a list of all assets (house, cars, retirement funds, stocks/bonds, life insurance policies, 529 plans, etc.) and a list of all liabilities (mortgage and credit cards). We didn't have to go into details on personal expenses like haircuts or dinners out.

And since Husband and I were on the same page and are amicably parting ways, we told the mediator we wanted everything split evenly - what's his was his, what's mine is mine, and what's jointly held is split 50/50. 

I opted for no alimony (since that gets taxed) - just child support until each child reaches 18 years old, which was calculated using our state's DSS website. Our mediator did bring up the percentage of income idea for dividing assets, but my career is at a place where my salary will begin skyrocketing over the next 5-7 years (and perhaps even surpass his by that point), so even after child support ends I will not need financial assistance from him in any way. And by then I'll only be 12-13 years from retirement to boot.

I can't help with the alimony question, per se, but I think you should keep the list simple - just assets and liabilities, and leave out personal expenses, since some people just have to suck it up and NOT live in the lifestyle to which they are accustomed (i.e., smaller house, cheaper car, less dinners out, using coupons for groceries, etc.).


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

DustyDog said:


> For things that are really hard to split - don't. People asking for your financial information understand this. The house, the utilities, the car - really hard to split between parent and children.
> 
> Food, clothing, maybe phones, should be splittable.
> 
> I don't know the purpose of the upcoming meeting, but I'm assuming what you put on this sheet is not final, and there will be discussions.


Not final just so we can all look at incoming/outgoing and then decide how much if any Alimony is required and for how long a time period, so I want to make sure i dont screw it up as it will be hard to convince change.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

ResignedWife said:


> That's weird - the only paperwork our mediator required was a list of all assets (house, cars, retirement funds, stocks/bonds, life insurance policies, 529 plans, etc.) and a list of all liabilities (mortgage and credit cards). We didn't have to go into details on personal expenses like haircuts or dinners out.
> 
> And since Husband and I were on the same page and are amicably parting ways, we told the mediator we wanted everything split evenly - what's his was his, what's mine is mine, and what's jointly held is split 50/50.
> 
> ...


We have split most stuff easy enough, I have no issues at all splitting all cash, assets, retirement or anything else, in fact some things she is coming out on top, Child support is a non issue I want to make sure they are taken care off and despite doing 50/50 on out of pocket expenses and extra curriculum and clothes etc I will probably end up picking up 100% with no complaints but something about Alimony and paying for an X wife is just a really hard pill to swallow for me.

I feel like you said she should take care of herself and reduce her cost of living for non essentials and not require any.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I know you guys are doing mediation, but I really think you should consult a separate lawyer on this. If she has her own career and has an income where she can support herself, I don't think you should have to play alimony. especially since you are giving her the divorce that she wants and you don't. And if your incomes are relatively similar and you have 50/50 custody, I'm not sure that you should be paying a huge chunk in child support, since you will already be paying to support them for the 50% of the time they are with you. And if the kids are staying on your health insurance, that should count for something (check to see what the cost difference is in your premiums for a single person vs. your current family policy).

These are my personal feelings. I'm not a lawyer and have no kids, so not sure how all this stuff works.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Have you spoken to a lawyer about what kind of alimony a judge would likely order?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MovingForward said:


> Nope there is no state formula to use so it goes on if 'needed' and what is a needed Item, i guess it depends on who you ask? I would say house(suitable) and utility bills, car(suitable), food and equivalent health insurance, I would not class manicures/pedicures, hair coloring or waxing a "needed' item I would class them as a luxury item and if she can't afford them I really don't feel like I should have to be on the hook for it just as I would not expect her to be on the hook for any luxury item I wanted if roles were reversed.
> 
> I just feel like this and maybe I need to get over it but she has not helped or supported my career, she has her own career, is educated and still young, will be receiving a decent child support payment with 50% custody and if she wants a divorce then she doesn't get to receive the extra financial benefits of the marriage, stupid comparison but I feel like its the equivalent of me divorcing her and still expecting her to still do my laundry and clean the house (she doesn't anyway just an example)
> 
> Sorry for the rant I am just bitter as you can probably tell :smile2:


When you say that there is no state formula, do you mean that there is no formula for alimony, or do you mean that there is no formula for both child support and alimony?


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> I know you guys are doing mediation, but I really think you should consult a separate lawyer on this. If she has her own career and has an income where she can support herself, I don't think you should have to play alimony. especially since you are giving her the divorce that she wants and you don't. And if your incomes are relatively similar and you have 50/50 custody, I'm not sure that you should be paying a huge chunk in child support, since you will already be paying to support them for the 50% of the time they are with you. And if the kids are staying on your health insurance, that should count for something (check to see what the cost difference is in your premiums for a single person vs. your current family policy).
> 
> These are my personal feelings. I'm not a lawyer and have no kids, so not sure how all this stuff works.


Hi FIP, Incomes not similar I make significantly more, the CS payment is a calculator which takes into account medical and all the other expenses so the CS payment is what it is and I am fine with it.

I worked out she can afford to buy a house in same area, pay all her bills, keep her car and healthcare is the only unknown at this point but I would even be fine with COBRA payment but anything above that I currently cannot accept.

My fear about consulting a lawyer is we have to do a financial disclosure in Mediation so any payment to a Lawyer would be seen and I would imagine at that point she will get her own Lawyer and things could go down hill rapidly from that point, mediation fall apart, Litigation start and i could be liable for all legal fee's since it is at a judges discretion and I am the higher earner. 

Not sure if I am using this thread to ask for advice anymore or just vent frustrations :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> When you say that there is no state formula, do you mean that there is no formula for alimony, or do you mean that there is no formula for both child support and alimony?


There is one for CS which we have used, just no state formula for Alimony they use a few guidelines and then establish if there is a Need so each judge could see a different need and choose a different amount or time frame.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Have you spoken to a lawyer about what kind of alimony a judge would likely order?


No I am too worried about that opening up a can of worms and making things worse.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Could you take out some cash in smaller amounts here and there to pay for a one hour consult with an attorney?

Would you mind sharing which state you live in? It would be a lot easier to give you input if I could do some reading about your state and divorce.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Could you take out some cash in smaller amounts here and there to pay for a one hour consult with an attorney?
> 
> Would you mind sharing which state you live in? It would be a lot easier to give you input if I could do some reading about your state and divorce.


I guess that could be an option which I had not thought of. 

I am bordering your state to the left. :smile2:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that the mediator is asking for way too much detail. Is there any way you could check with a different mediator? That forum could very well lead to a lot of arguments.

Here's what I would do with the children's part of your home expenses. 

It could be argued that if you did not have the children, you would not need the house you have. So, you have the children 50% of the time. That is 3 people living in your home. While they are there only 50% of the time, you still have to pay the mortgage 100% of the time to cover their rooms and their use of the home.

I would argue that 3 people live in the home, so each person accounts for 1/3 of all household expenses. So allocate 2/3 of mortgage, utilities, etc to the children.

With groceries, they are there 50% of the time, so the children count for 1/3 of your grocery bills.

Do you know if your wife is going to put things like manicures, etc on her list? If she does, then you add some of this stuff as well for yourself. Find the most expensive place to get hair cuts for men in your town. Use their price. Put down manicures and pedicures for yourself. Men get those. So add them. After all you need to look good too Is this game playing? I don't think so. That forum is for the two of you to negotiate. if she argues that you don't need that stuff, she has made the argument that she too does not need that stuff.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Alimony is money that one spouse pays to the other for support either during or after a divorce (or both). In Arizona, alimony is called "spousal maintenance." When spouses separate, one person may be unable to pay for regular living expenses, in which case a judge may require the higher earner—whether that is the husband or the wife—to assist the lower earner financially for at least some period of time.

Types of Spousal Maintenance in Arizona

A judge in Arizona may award temporary—or "pendente lite," meaning pending the final divorce—maintenance during divorce proceedings. When the final order is entered, the judge may also order either temporary or permanent maintenance for a period of time. An order may direct one spouse to pay the other a lump sum, or more commonly, a monthly amount for a specific length of time.

Permanent spousal maintenance is becoming increasingly rare. Even after longer marriages, courts mostly tend to look at maintenance as rehabilitative—in other words, put in place temporarily to allow a spouse to find a job or obtain training and education to improve employment prospects.

In some situations, a court may award limited maintenance as reimbursement to a spouse who contributed to the advanced education and earning capacity of the other spouse. Courts generally award permanent maintenance only to spouses who are unable to become self-supporting—due to age or disability, for example—and even then only after long marriages. A couple can always agree between themselves to provide one spouse with long-term or permanent maintenance if both agree that this is fair.

Eligibility for Maintenance

To award spousal maintenance, a court must find that one spouse has financial need and the other has the ability to pay. An Arizona court may determine that need exists if one spouse:

•	does not have enough property—even after the marital distribution—to provide for reasonable needs
•	contributed to the other spouse’s educational opportunities, or
•	is unable to be self-sufficient through appropriate employment.

Whether a spouse is able to be self-sufficient through employment requires the the judge to consider additional factors, including the current labor market and the spouse's existing skills and experience. Arizona courts give special consideration to older spouses who served as homemakers during long marriages, who commonly find that age and years out of the job market make it very difficult to find work that supports a lifestyle comparable to that enjoyed during marriage. A spouse who is the custodian of a very young child or a disabled child may not be required to seek immediate employment outside the home due to the needs of the child.

A court that finds spousal maintenance appropriate will set the amount and duration of the award after considering all relevant factors, including:

•	the marital standard of living
•	the length of the marriage
•	the age, employment history, earning ability, and physical and emotional condition of the spouse seeking maintenance
•	the paying spouse’s ability to meet the financial needs of both spouses
•	the spouses’ comparative financial resources and earning abilities
•	contributions of the spouse seeking maintenance to the other spouse’s earning ability
•	the extent to which reductions in income or career opportunities of the spouse seeking maintenance benefitted the other spouse
•	both spouses’ ability to contribute to their children’s future educational costs
•	other financial resources available to meet the needs of the spouse seeking maintenance, including an award of marital property
•	educational or training opportunities available to the spouse seeking maintenance and time required to take advantage of any such opportunities
•	either spouse’s excessive spending, or destruction, concealment, or fraudulent disposition of jointly held property
•	costs of health insurance for each spouse, and
•	any damages and judgments from a spouse’s conduct that resulted in criminal conviction, if the other spouse or a child was the victim.

Although some courts in Arizona have experimented with using formulas to compute spousal maintenance, an Arizona judge who consults a formula must still consider all of the factors outlined above. After taking such factors into account, a judge has discretion in deciding what amount to award, or whether to award any amount at all.

Termination or Modification

Couples may enter into their own agreements either waiving maintenance entirely or providing that neither will seek any changes to maintenance in court. Unless they make such an agreement, or unless the final divorce order says otherwise, either spouse may request a court to modify or terminate periodic payments due to a material change in circumstances. Payments end when the term of an award expires, when the recipient spouse remarries, or upon the death of either spouse.

Tax Effects

Periodic maintenance payments are usually taxable to the recipient and tax-deductible by the payer. Couples can sometimes take advantage of this situation by structuring payments to create the best possible tax scenario for both spouses. The IRS generally treats lump-sum payments as property distributions even if the court or the couple refers to the payment as maintenance or alimony. Under these circumstances there would be no tax effects for either spouse.

http://www.divorcenet.com/resources/divorce/spousal-support/understanding-and-calculating-alimony-ar

{Edited to have the info for the correct state.}


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I think that the mediator is asking for way too much detail. Is there any way you could check with a different mediator? That forum could very well lead to a lot of arguments.
> 
> Here's what I would do with the children's part of your home expenses.
> 
> ...


Not sure what she is going to put on but i do know she is expecting Alimony from me:frown2:.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Have you seen and used the Colorado child support calculator? there is a link to it here.
> 
> https://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/Forms_List.cfm?Form_Type_ID=71
> 
> Download Client Software - Family Law Software


Yeah we are good on CS thanks.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MovingForward said:


> Yeah we are good on CS thanks.


I looked up the wrong state.... sorry about that.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I looked up the wrong state.... sorry about that.


I used same site to find correct state :smile2:


*the marital standard of living* - We did not live Lavish

*the length of the marriage* 12 years

*the age, employment history, earning ability, and physical and emotional condition of the spouse seeking maintenance* Young, Employed, educated, good health

*the paying spouse’s ability to meet the financial needs of both spouses* I can afford to pay I just really don't feel like I should have to

*the spouses’ comparative financial resources and earning abilities* I earn much more but she has potential to get to similar level in next few years.

*contributions of the spouse seeking maintenance to the other spouse’s earning ability* _zero

*the extent to which reductions in income or career opportunities of the spouse seeking maintenance benefitted the other spouse* -None

*both spouses’ ability to contribute to their children’s future educational costs* Not sure

*other financial resources available to meet the needs of the spouse seeking maintenance, including an award of marital property* -i will leave with Zero cash assets or retirement, she will have large lump sum for new house deposit, lots of expensive furniture, decent retirement.

*educational or training opportunities available to the spouse seeking maintenance and time required to take advantage of any such opportunities* - none known
*
either spouse’s excessive spending, or destruction, concealment, or fraudulent disposition of jointly held property* - NOne

*costs of health insurance for each spouse* I would cover COBRA
*
any damages and judgments from a spouse’s conduct that resulted in criminal conviction, if the other spouse or a child was the victim.* - None

Although some courts have experimented with using formulas to compute spousal maintenance, a judge who consults a formula must still consider all of the factors outlined above. After taking such factors into account, a judge has discretion in deciding what amount to award, or whether to award any amount at all.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Based on the below info, you might be paying alimony for 3.5 to 6 years. But alimony is AZ is considered rehabilitative, not life-time support. It is not considered to be about maintaining the same lifestyle. Does your wife really need rehabilitation when it comes to income? 

She has a business, right? Has she been working the business full time? Or is it more of a hobby business?


"As for how long an ex-spouse needs to pay alimony, a good rule of thumb is to multiply the years of marriage by 0.3 to 0.5.* For example a person with a ten year marriage may have to pay spousal maintenance for three to five years.* But again this is not a hard and fast rule an many other factors need to be considered.

Arizona is what is known as a rehabilitate state when it comes to alimony.* Meaning that the purpose of the alimony should be to enable the other spouse to get back on their feet and be self-sufficient.* Thus alimony awards in Arizona may be for less number of years than what other states would award."

http://divorceinfo.com/azfaqsalimony.htm


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Based on the below info, you might be paying alimony for 3.5 to 6 years. But alimony is AZ is considered rehabilitative, not life-time support. It is not considered to be about maintaining the same lifestyle. Does your wife really need rehabilitation when it comes to income?
> 
> She has a business, right? Has she been working the business full time? Or is it more of a hobby business?
> 
> ...


Yes she has a full time career currently she went back to work last year. 

She would initially have to reduce living standard but just luxury items and things she has took for granted such as just buying or spending whatever she wanted without thought, she will have to budget but i think she could manage financially just fine.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MovingForward said:


> I used same site to find correct state :smile2:
> 
> 
> *the marital standard of living* - We did not live Lavish


good


MovingForward said:


> *the length of the marriage* 12 years


So at most, alimony would be .3 to .5 of the length of the marriage…. Or 3.5 to 6 years… AT MOST


MovingForward said:


> *the age, employment history, earning ability, and physical and emotional condition of the spouse seeking maintenance* Young, Employed, educated, good health


good


MovingForward said:


> *the paying spouse’s ability to meet the financial needs of both spouses* I can afford to pay I just really don't feel like I should have to


Don’t blame you.


MovingForward said:


> *the spouses’ comparative financial resources and earning abilities* I earn much more but she has potential to get to similar level in next few years.


This is important. So if she gets alimony, it should be for a very short period of time.


MovingForward said:


> *contributions of the spouse seeking maintenance to the other spouse’s earning ability* _zero


ok


MovingForward said:


> *the extent to which reductions in income or career opportunities of the spouse seeking maintenance benefitted the other spouse* -None


Was she a SAHM? Did she take care of the children, the home, and cook, etc? If she did that would be considered her making less money helping you because she took a lot of the burden having a home with children off of you.


MovingForward said:


> *both spouses’ ability to contribute to their children’s future educational costs* Not sure


ok


MovingForward said:


> *other financial resources available to meet the needs of the spouse seeking maintenance, including an award of marital property* -i will leave with Zero cash assets or retirement, she will have large lump sum for new house deposit, lots of expensive furniture, decent retirement.


Why is she taking your entire retirement and all cash?????

Does she have retirement right now? If so, you are you not taking 50% of hers and her taking 50% of your? Why is she getting all of your and all of her own?

What I would suggest you do is that you make up a spread sheet of what this would look like if the two of you split this. And she does not just get everything, instead she gets 50% of it all. And then if you agree to her taking your 50% that is offset against any alimony. If she insists on alimony, you insist on 50% of all assets to include cash and BOTH of your retirements.


MovingForward said:


> *educational or training opportunities available to the spouse seeking maintenance and time required to take advantage of any such opportunities* - none known


Does this mean that she is able to earn a living close to your income with education that she already has? Or at least able to earn enough to support herself and her part of the child maintenance?


MovingForward said:


> *either spouse’s excessive spending, or destruction, concealment, or fraudulent disposition of jointly held property* - NOne


good


MovingForward said:


> *costs of health insurance for each spouse* I would cover COBRA


COBRA can only be carried for a short time. So, what happens after COBRA is no longer available to her?
If you are covering her COBRA, then that too should be deducted from any alimony. It would be better to just give her the amount to cover COBRA and let her pay for it or get other insurance because you do not want to set up the precedence in which you are responsible for her medical insurance. 

I assume that you will continue to carry your children on your medical insurance available through your job.


MovingForward said:


> *any damages and judgments from a spouse’s conduct that resulted in criminal conviction, if the other spouse or a child was the victim.* - None


good


MovingForward said:


> Although some courts have experimented with using formulas to compute spousal maintenance, a judge who consults a formula must still consider all of the factors outlined above. After taking such factors into account, a judge has discretion in deciding what amount to award, or whether to award any amount at all.


What’s in your favor is that AZ, like many states are moving away from alimony in situations like yours where the couple is young and the lower income spouse has all the capability to earn a good living.

If she has the education and some work experience that would allow her to earn close to what you earn, you could also look at imputing income to her. That way alimony is based on her earning potential and not on her choice to earn a lower amount as thus stay dependent on you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MovingForward said:


> Yes she has a full time career currently she went back to work last year.
> 
> She would initially have to reduce living standard but just luxury items and things she has took for granted such as just buying or spending whatever she wanted without thought, she will have to budget but i think she could manage financially just fine.


Does she have a business and a job now? I think I'm confused.

As a rule of thumb, do the 50/40 calculation... 40% of the your net income -50% of the her net income. See what that looks like.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Was she a SAHM? Did she take care of the children, the home, and cook, etc? If she did that would be considered her making less money helping you because she took a lot of the burden having a home with children off of you


yes she was for 2 years this was part of our issue, I was against the idea but she did it anyway and her prior career she was earning about the same as she currently is and had pretty much topped out unless she went for a different position which she had no intention or desire to do. No burden was really taken from me since when i got home everything was my problem as she needed a break.



EleGirl said:


> Why is she taking your entire retirement and all cash?????
> Does she have retirement right now? If so, you are you not taking 50% of hers and her taking 50% of your? Why is she getting all of your and all of her own?


.
She is getting 50% rolled over into hers and cashing out the other 50% plus any left over cash I had as her share of house equity so i did not have to sell and can keep it, I like the house and want the kids to keep some stability. She barely has a thing because she never paid into it.



EleGirl said:


> Does this mean that she is able to earn a living close to your income with education that she already has? Or at least able to earn enough to support herself and her part of the child maintenance?


yes she requires no further training for her Job just needs more time and experience.



EleGirl said:


> COBRA can only be carried for a short time. So, what happens after COBRA is no longer available to her?
> If you are covering her COBRA, then that too should be deducted from any alimony. It would be better to just give her the amount to cover COBRA and let her pay for it or get other insurance because you do not want to set up the precedence in which you are responsible for her medical insurance.
> 
> I assume that you will continue to carry your children on your medical insurance available through your job.


I was hoping that would cover all the criteria to not pay any additional Alimony, Cobra is manageable for her and can last for 36 months to get a private plan the costs quoted have been astronomical. 

Children will be remaining on my healthcare.


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## ResignedWife (Jan 20, 2017)

MovingForward said:


> ... but something about Alimony and paying for an X wife is just a really hard pill to swallow for me.
> 
> I feel like you said she should take care of herself and reduce her cost of living for non essentials and not require any.


Yes, that's what I'm saying. In my opinion, alimony should only be awarded if there is a spouse that has been non-working throughout the marriage. If the two spouses have both been working, then (and this is strictly my own opinion) alimony should not be granted unless the two salaries are glaringly different (i.e., one spouse makes six figures while the other earns $35,000).

In my case, I earn 30% less than my husband, but I will be receiving child support payments for 5 years (reduced in the 5th year when my oldest turns 18). During the first year, with child support included, my "take home" $$ (salary & child support) will be just below 7% of his take home $$ minus child support, but I'll have the kids 70% of the time. In my mind, that's more than enough and alimony was not necessary because I can reduce my own expenses as necessary (I did it many years ago when I got laid off and was out of work for a long while, and I can do it again).


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

ResignedWife said:


> If the two spouses have both been working, then (and this is strictly my own opinion) ali*mony should not be granted unless the two salaries are glaringly different*


Well that is the problem our earnings are glaringly different but i still feel providing she can afford House, Car, Healthcare, food and essentials which she will be able to then it should not matter. :frown2:[/QUOTE]


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

I never paid alimony, so no dog in that fight. I will say, make sure the alimony is limited in duration and has specified terms for ending. Based on the length your marriage, there should be no chance at permanent alimony any way.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MovingForward said:


> yes she was for 2 years this was part of our issue, I was against the idea but she did it anyway and her prior career she was earning about the same as she currently is and had pretty much topped out unless she went for a different position which she had no intention or desire to do. No burden was really taken from me since when i got home everything was my problem as she needed a break.
> 
> .
> She is getting 50% rolled over into hers and cashing out the other 50% plus any left over cash I had as her share of house equity so i did not have to sell and can keep it, I like the house and want the kids to keep some stability. She barely has a thing because she never paid into it.
> ...


If she has a job, why doesn't she have health care at her job?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How long does she think she will get alimony?

So she worked most of the marriage and was off only 2 years? When were these two years? Did she work full time?

I think a consult with an attorney or two is a good idea. Some attorneys will give half hour to one hour free consult. They do it in hopes that you hire them. Get some free consults and pay for one or two. They would be able to tell you what the local courts/judges will most likely do. Then you can push in mediation for whatever resolution they think the court is most likely to impose on you if you go to court.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> If she has a job, why doesn't she have health care at her job?


She can but it is 4 times the cost of my current plan


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MovingForward said:


> She can but it is 4 times the cost of my current plan


Even 4 times the cost of COBRA? COBRA is usually extremely expensive.

Has she looked on the ACA market?

A friend of mine had to get her own health insurance for a while. She was paying $518 a month for both her and her son. Her COBRA was much more expensive than that. So if your wife's employer insurance is more expensive than those number, YIKES

Make sure that what you pay in her COBRA is considered part of her alimony if she gets any.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Even 4 times the cost of COBRA? COBRA is usually extremely expensive.
> 
> Has she looked on the ACA market?
> 
> ...


She is looking at ACA. 

Yes COBRA was actually quite reasonable her company plan was obscene. I really hope this can be instead of Alimony.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Does your state end spousal support if she co-habitates?


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

JohnA said:


> Does your state end spousal support if she co-habitates?


Good Question I am not sure but need to find out.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

If yes, don't share with her that info.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Impact of Cohabitation on Alimony in Arizona*

Cohabitation occurs when an ex-spouse enters a relationship with a new live-in partner to whom he or she is not married. While there is no bright-line definition of “cohabitation” in Arizona, generally the more closely the relationship resembles a marriage, the more likely the court will call it cohabitation.

Spousal maintenance won’t end immediately if a court decides a supported spouse is cohabitating. Rather, if an obligor spouse is able to prove cohabitation, then a court will look at the financial circumstances of the spouses to decide if a reduction in support is appropriate. Generally, a judge will reduce alimony by the same amount of money a cohabitating partner is contributing to a supported spouse.
Impact of Remarriage on Alimony

*Supported Spouse’s Remarriage*

A supported spouse’s remarriage will ring in the end of alimony. In limited circumstances, a divorce order may allow spousal maintenance to continue after a spouse has re-wed. Nevertheless, in all other cases, a supported spouse’s remarriage will terminate alimony automatically.

Even if a new marriage is later annulled or declared invalid, any alimony award that was extinguished by the remarriage can’t be reinstated. Nevertheless, if an obligor spouse continues to pay alimony, not knowing that a supported spouse has remarried, he or she will be entitled to a fund of any monies paid after the date of remarriage.

Remarriage and Alimony in Arizona | DivorceNet.com


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You may find an attorney with a free consultation. It's crucial you know the laws if it comes to that. Cohabitation maybe key. 

You owe her nothing so keep all your knowledge to yourself. Let her figure it out on her own.

If you need cash pawn your wedding ring. If she's taken hers off pawn those too. Swear you haven't seen it. 

Hun, it's up to keep up with your stuff.


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