# Free will choice our greatest tool



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By EI
> I will readily admit that *my affair came first* and the fog came as a result of my A, not the other way around
> I don't blame my affair on any mysterious "fog."* I chose to have an affair*



*The above posts by EI points out a very important fact that can be very useful to those that have not yet had an affair*.
Your free will choices before the affair are critical! A person usually starts out feeling abused or neglected by their spouse before infidelity; in fact you may be abused or neglected. Then thinking about how you are going to handle your situation you start having thoughts or maybe graduating to plans of action that lead you to a road of infidelity.

When those thoughts first come up that is when you need to use your free will choices to squash those thoughts immediately. Change those thoughts, actions, and plans to ones that will get a solution that does not involve infidelity in any way. Maybe there is a solution that brings you and your spouse back to an acceptable level or maybe separation or divorce is an answer. *One thing is for sure and that is that infidelity will hurt you and your family for a very long time and in some case permanently.*


The focus and free will choices on your thoughts and actions when you are strained in your marriage will be so much more effective and advantageous than anything after fidelity. We can talk about fog and R after infidelity but that is just damage control.


This TAM forum is very informative about after infidelity but preventive maintenance before the disaster is more important for those that have not committed infidelity.

*To help you with your free will choices you can give great importance to your logic, common sense, and morals and values. These are very strong tools that can help you a lot!*
So this thread is mostly for those that have not committed infidelity

You can focus on preventive maintenance before infidelity or you can ignore the preventative maintenance and have a strong chance that you will wind up in infidelity. After infidelity you will have to try and deal with the “FOG” and all the crying and damage that infidelity brings to the couple and other family members.

If you do not want to use your free will choices to avoid infidelity then read some of the threads on the CWI forum. If that does not jolt you then you maybe a masochist. IT IS YOUR FREE WILL CHOICE!

*How are some of the ways that you keep from infidelity?*


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I have witnessed what sexual misconduct does and the mere thought of having an affair makes me feel sick and violent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Whut...the Heckaroni?????????????


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

A major way to keep away from infidelity is to avoid temptations such as flirting, keeping in contact with x's, running around with single friends in bars, and keeping company with cheaters. Never cheated & never been cheated. I would definitely leave if I'm cheated on; too stressful. I keep my eyes and ears open in my marriage of going 35 years.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If you have problems, don't try to fix them with alcohol.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

My advice. Don't take that first step. Don't harmlessly flirt. Don't share intimate details of your life with someone who could get to close. Don't lower your boundaries. Don't compromise your values...ever. The first step could be your last.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Mr Blunt said:


> Your free will choices before the affair are critical! A person usually starts out feeling abused or neglected by their spouse before infidelity; in fact you may be abused or neglected. Then thinking about how you are going to handle your situation you start having thoughts or maybe graduating to plans of action that lead you to a road of infidelity.
> 
> When those thoughts first come up that is when you need to *use your free will choices to squash those thoughts immediately.* Change those thoughts, actions, and plans to ones that will get a solution that does not involve infidelity in any way. Maybe there is a solution that brings you and your spouse back to an acceptable level or maybe separation or divorce is an answer. *One thing is for sure and that is that infidelity will hurt you and your family for a very long time and in some case permanently.*



I submit that one should invest in a marriage first to minimize the chance of a spouse or oneself getting to the point feeling abused and neglected. Don't let it get that far in the first place otherwise it may be too late to repair.

Go on dates. Have sex. Go on adventures. Figure out what needs your spouse may have that you are not meeting and try to meet them. Work on communication. Improve yourself and keep yourself someone that your spouse can love. All of these things together help create and reinforce the brain chemistry of bonding.

A good offense is often more effective than a reactive defense. It worked in my case. My marriage was in a bad shape and I did all of those things and more to invest in my marriage. The result was a strong marriage. Because I fell in love again with my wife and our marriage was healthy, I was able to recognize I was developing feelings for someone else. The strong feelings for my wife kept me from entering fully into the black hole of an EA.

If I had only done what you suggest Mr. Blunt at that late stage I would have had the one sided EA turned full and gone PA and I would be divorced now. No thanks that advice is too little too late.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I tend to think and believe that the majority of WS don't feel neglected or abused prior to the A. I believe that in actuality they feel an unhappiness and unfulfilment, as if something is missing in their marriage and current situation. they then seek out that something to fill the void. 

Once they cross the boundaries and have the infidelity, they feel more fulfilled and then the "fog" possibly sets in. At this point they start to re-write the history and justify their actions so that they can live with their bad choices and not be down on themselves all the time. The easiest way to do this is to "downplay" their BS through casting them in a negative light (abusive and neglectful are easy things to find actions that support these ideals). They pick out certain events that will attest to this being possibility and they use them to support their theory to all of their friends and family.

Although it is their free will and choice that made the initial move possible, it is their ability to re-wriet and justify that allows them to live with themselves, when they normally couldn't have. 


*note- there are those that are products of abusive and neglectful issues and this is not meant to downplay their situation. I just feel that the majority where not in those situations, but it is much easier to live with themselves and garner support when these claims are made (hence the rewrites).


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Meson*
> I submit that one should invest in a marriage first to minimize the chance of a spouse or oneself getting to the point feeling abused and neglected. Don't let it get that far in the first place otherwise it may be too late to repair.
> 
> Go on dates. Have sex. Go on adventures. Figure out what needs your spouse may have that you are not meeting and try to meet them. Work on communication. Improve yourself and keep yourself someone that your spouse can love. All of these things together help create and reinforce the brain chemistry of bonding.


*That is very good advice and is great preventive maintenance.

However, what about those people that have not done what you have done and are having those thoughts that lead to the road of infidelity?*


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Squeakr
> I tend to think and believe that the majority of WS don't feel neglected or abused prior to the A. I believe that in actuality they feel an unhappiness and unfulfilment, as if something is missing in their marriage and current situation. they then seek out that something to fill the void.


I think you are right Squeakr, I do think that in addition to feeling neglected and abused that unhappiness and unfullillment are factors in the beginning of their thoughts and that could lead to infidelity.

Whatever the reasons are for the beginning of the thoughts that could lead to infidelity, one way to help avoid that build up is what I said in my intitial post reprinted below:




> *When those thoughts first come up that is when you need to use your free will choices to squash those thoughts immediately. Change those thoughts, actions, and plans to ones that will get a solution that does not involve infidelity in any way*


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

And often that feeling of unfullfillment, that void? Is not your spouses responsibility to fill. 

Yes, if they are abusive or have abandoned you, then you have to address that. But if they are present, and participate, and you just feel it's not enough. You really have to check yourself. Are your expecations realistic?

My X had a void. I tried to fill it, but she was a black hole. I started to feel inadequate, which led me to stop trying. Which made that void even bigger. Thus started the spiral to destruction.

We both had strong libidos. I knew that given the right circumstances, I would be at risk, so I actively avoided those circumstances. I didn't flirt, didn't hang out with opposite sex friends, didn't go out 'with the guys' and get drunk at bars. 

My X on the other hand, thought she could 'handle it'. And flirted, and hung out. And, well, it didn't work out so good for her. Once she cheated, she had to lie to cover it up, then lie to hide the lies. She knew what she did was wrong, but rather than 'fess up' and face the music, she lied to try and save face. 

Every step on that journey was a choice. Even the choices I made. I choose to feel inadequate rather than confront her early on how I was feeling about her unrealistic demands on me. She choose to go outside of our marriage in search of fufillment. I choose to deny the signs for much longer than was healthy. When I did finally confront, she choose to lie. I choose to accept that lie for another two years. 

Looking at it in the rearview mirror, we probably would have both made different choices. But, at the time, to the best of our abilities we made the choices we did. 

Advice for those who are on the brink.. never think too highly of yourself. Don't think "I" would never cheat. Or that thought of cheating is disgusting so you'll never do it. The best way to not cheat, is to avoid risky situations. Because in the heat of the moment. With horemones and booze clouding our judgment, we stop thinking big picture. Any of us in the right circumstances will stop thinking about the big picture and give into the desires and lust of the moment. So, prevent that moment to prevent the act.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Free will may not even exist. Some philosophers and neuroscientists think that free will is an illusion. If they're right, that has huge implications. It's a fascinating issue for those who wish to look into it. However, I happen to think free will exists, and that people will usually do what they think is in their best interests, given that most people are very poor at forward thinking and anticipating consequences.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By ACOA
> And often that feeling of unfullfillment, that void? Is not your spouse’s responsibility to fill.
> 
> Yes, if they are abusive or have abandoned you, then you have to address that. But if they are present, and participate, and you just feel it's not enough. You really have to check yourself. Are your expectations realistic?


*I think your point is a very good one*. You also bring up the point about expectations. I think that we in America have to be careful not to think that life is like it is sometimes portrayed on TV or in movies. Men see women on TV and in movies that are very beautiful with sexy killer bodies and women see men that are powerful, handsome, romantic, the life of the party, etc. At first we just say that is TV-Movie land fantasy but when we start having trouble in the marriage then we may entertain that and wish we had that. We might even think that we have been screwed ion life and deserve better.

*Marriage for the long term (20+ years) is going to test you. You will experience the selfishness of your partner sooner or later and your expectations are going to take a hit and you will feel unfulfilled.* If the selfishness is not super serious for a long time then just try and work with your partner to get better. If that does not work then just hold on because that selfishness will probably pass and sometimes you just have to be shyt on a little bit. If it is not super serious and does not last long then it will pass without permanent damage. If the selfishness is super serious and/or for a long time then you may want to just get out of the marriage.




> I knew that given the right circumstances, I would be at risk, so I actively avoided those circumstances. I didn't flirt, didn't hang out with opposite sex friends, didn't go out 'with the guys' and get drunk at bars.
> 
> The best way to not cheat is to avoid risky situations. Because in the heat of the moment. With hormones and booze clouding our judgment, we stop thinking big picture. Any of us in the right circumstances will stop thinking about the big picture and give into the desires and lust of the moment. So, prevent that moment to prevent the act.


*Very good advice. Getting drunk at bars and flirting is a sign of an ignorant or self-centered person that has very little respect for his/her spouse!*


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I have witnessed what sexual misconduct does and the mere thought of having an affair makes me feel sick and violent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel much the same. I chuckle when people say well anyone can cheat. I always thought it was incredibly weak and selfish to cheat prior to being married and getting cheated on. Now the mere thought turns my stomach. I mean physically ill. I still can't watch any movie with infidelity in it. Just a non option for me even more so after being cheated on.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Free will choice our greatest tool*



Wolf1974 said:


> I feel much the same. I chuckle when people say well anyone can cheat. I always thought it was incredibly weak and selfish to cheat prior to being married and getting cheated on. Now the mere thought turns my stomach. I mean physically ill. I still can't watch any movie with infidelity in it. Just a non option for me even more so after being cheated on.


I think it's because we know the devastation that is left in the wake of such betrayal. Our experiences and knowledge insulates us somewhat like an inoculation. It's not that we can't cheat. It's that we are aware of every facet of pain that it brings and that knowledge makes us sick.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Wolf1974
> I feel much the same. I chuckle when people say well anyone can cheat. I always thought it was incredibly weak and selfish to cheat prior to being married and getting cheated on. Now the mere thought turns my stomach. I mean physically ill. I still can't watch any movie with infidelity in it. Just a non-option for me even more so after being cheated on.


I was the same way Wolf for several years after D-Day. I still do not like movies that has cheating and especially when they make it out to be funny as in a comedy. There is nothing funny about betrayal from a spouse! Like bfree said not only do we know of the devastation we have experienced it! After many years you may not get so physically ill but the sting never goes completely away. That may be a good thing to help us control ourselves. *I do think that almost everyone can cheat but there are tools to prevent that if we really want to not cheat. No excuses allowed!*

*I think that cheating has a LOT to do with choices before cheating.* Maybe a person does something that hits you with a spike in sexual excitement then you have a choice to pursue that excitement in thought or deed or make a free will decision to put it out of your mind. In our case we can relate that to the devastation that we experienced and use that to kill the temptation.

 Choice is HUGE in the pre-affair world. Choosing to go to a bar where there are people of the opposite sex and getting high or drunk is a time bomb waiting to happen. I do not go to school reunions anymore because they want to talk about the old days when we were free and crazy. In high school and college we were mostly interested in sex, parties, and cars. You go to the parties, you get the girls in the car and then you have a bed on wheels!

*In married life sex has to be much more controlled and being aware of the powerfull tool of free will choice is a very good tool for prevention!*


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> *How are some of the ways that you keep from infidelity?*


Simple, when married, I just DID. There was nothing I had to DO to keep me from cheating.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> 
> How are some of the ways that you keep from infidelity?
> 
> ...



Congrats! There seem to be many that cannot or will not do what your did. If my statement were not true then the Coping With Infidelity forum would not be one of the largest forums on this web site. Threads on Infidelity are by far the most numerous on TAM


For those that have not cheated and do not have the discipline or character that you do taking steps to keep from being tempted and falling is so very important. After they fall to infidelity there is permanent damage for most. Rather than here them cry and moan about their pain they can make some decisions and take some steps before so they do not wind up in so much pain and suffering for the whole family


I think that working successful prevention is much more effective than trying to patch up such damaged lives. I think that it is safe to say that the majority of relationships that experience infidelity wind up with fractured families and often damaged emotions.


One way to help people get the truth about infidelity is to have them read a forum like the Coping With Infidelity on this TAM. By reading the CWI you can see the FOG, and the pathetic devastation that Infidelity produces. All those romantic and tickled emotions start to vanish when you get to see the real truth


Welcome back vellocet!!


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Free will is attributed to self awareness as well as situational awareness. In fact, Waywards would attest that free will is what led them to cheat since it was their choice to do so, although they do blame everything else they ultimately succumb to the truth: They did it on their own accord. 

Some or most people, depending on your experience, are bound by the acknowledgment of consequences that happen AFTER an action or decision is made. The weight of the matter is then scaled and depending on how much self indoctrination one has sustained tips the scale into that favor. Vellocet for instance needed not to be dissuaded by consequences since he never got that far towards cheating, a rarity these days, while others chose to add weight to the scale by whatever means necessary to allow for the cheating to become justified.

For most Waywards the marriage acts as a tether to not only make them feel like they have a safe place for refuge from the inappropriate relationship but also as a way to constantly reinforce their dissatisfaction with life, and the marriage, to continue having an affair. Cut the tether and the choices are now limited to fewer options than before so the so called free will is constricted by availability and not personal decision making. 

Or, if you prefer the short version: Cheaters suck!!!


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> Rather than here them cry and moan about their pain they can make some decisions and take some steps before so they do not wind up in so much pain and suffering for the whole family


I agree they need to take control and steps to pick themselves off the floor, dust themselves off and be determined to not let someone else control them.

But dismissing their pain as crying and moaning?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

vellocet said:


> I agree they need to take control and steps to pick themselves off the floor, dust themselves off and be determined to not let someone else control them.
> 
> But dismissing their pain as crying and moaning?


I think he was referring to waywards?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

I actually wrote a thread called No Choice wherein I wrote that I believe that our lives are decided by our level of intellect. We all like to think that we have choices but the reality is that we are bound by our ability to "make choices".

Someone capable of full spectrum thought will almost never make the same "choice" as someone who has a limited thought process. All of us make decisions based on our ability, or lack thereof, to fully conceptualize and understand the consequences of every decision.

Think of it in this way. We all say 2+2=4 but what if your calculator only goes to 3. Then 2+2=3 and so does 6+4 or 9+23 and so on. Without a calculator that goes past 4 the computation will always be flawed except for any problem having an answer of 3 or less.

If you were given the equation 1,234+2,334 why on earth would anybody say the answer is 3? People do not like to be wrong and 3 is just flat wrong, unless it's all you're capable of, in which case it's still wrong to those that can calculate up to 3,568 but not to you until someone shows you the right answer, which you may or may not eventually believe. So then, after having been shown the correct answer, when asked what 1,234+2,334 is you can say 3,568 but when asked what 1,234+2,335 is the answer is 3. Not because you want to be wrong but because it's all you can do with that calculator.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> I actually wrote a thread called No Choice wherein I wrote that I believe that our lives are decided by our level of intellect. We all like to think that we have choices but the reality is that we are bound by our ability to "make choices".
> 
> Someone capable of full spectrum thought will almost never make the same "choice" as someone who has a limited thought process. All of us make decisions based on our ability, or lack thereof, to fully conceptualize and understand the consequences of every decision.
> 
> ...


Are you including the ability to let urges and desires override?

I have seen people with substantial I.Q.s cheat and average Intellect individuals resist with discipline and force of mind.

I think power outstrips intellect in the sexual arena.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I think he was referring to waywards?


Oh crap, yes. Read it wrong. Sorry Blunt. My bad.


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## nightmare01 (Oct 3, 2014)

bfree said:


> I think it's because we know the devastation that is left in the wake of such betrayal. Our experiences and knowledge insulates us somewhat like an inoculation. It's not that we can't cheat. It's that we are aware of every facet of pain that it brings and that knowledge makes us sick.


My WW's OM was a BH in his first marriage. According to her it was a devastating experience for him.

I don't understand how any BS could get into an affair.. but there are REVENGE affairs.. so I guess it's possible.

Back to WW's OM. This is a SMH thing...

After his WW divorced him to be with her OM he took up with the department admin at his work. She was married. Their affair went on for awhile, and then her BH found out and kicked her out of their house in the middle of the night. She showed up at his door in the middle of the night.

They eventually got married and had a couple of kids.

When their second kid was born they decided that she (OM's now wife) should quit to be a STHM. After she left her job my wife applied for her position.

So there my wife was working as the office admin.. the same position OM's wife had - who he had an affair with and later married.

Confused yet? :scratchhead:

So then OM took up with my WW. They had a LT EA that morphed into a LT EA&PA.

Toward the end of their LTA OM was apparently grooming some other woman for an affair. Maybe my WW got jealous? I don't know.. I think by then the affair was more work than it was worth for my WW.

After Dday I met OM's wife (the one that he was married to during his affair with my wife) and she confirmed that he was probably having another affair with yet another woman at work.

According to my WW she (OM's wife) has had affairs since they were married too. I don't know the truth of this though. BUT during our lunch she did offer to have sex with me at one of the motels her husband (OM) and my WW shared.

I refused her offer.. saying that I didn't want to lower myself to the level of my WW.

So .. I have no idea what to make of any of this.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Are you including the ability to let urges and desires override?
> 
> I have seen people with substantial I.Q.s cheat and average Intellect individuals resist with discipline and force of mind.
> 
> I think power outstrips intellect in the sexual arena.


Conan, absolutely. And I do not believe that a high IQ (test based) is necessarily indicative of a person's all around ability to process thought. I believe that some of the "average intellect" individuals have more "common sense" than some MENSA members. I also believe that common sense is a more accurate gauge of an individual's thought processing ability. Remember also that self denial is a thought process that some people are incapable of and instinct (you called it power) is a very strong opponent.

Please do not misunderstand, I am in no way excusing the actions of any WS but merely offering an explanation as to why it does occur. I believe that the WS is, and should be held, fully accountable for their actions. In fact, it may be the only way they will learn because obviously their intellect cannot get there on its own lest they would not have cheated.


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