# Affair Sex = Unprotected Sex?



## lordmayhem

One thing that I've noticed from reading all these stories about PAs in this forum and others, even from my ex wife's infidelity, is that a good majority of the time, affair sex means unprotected sex. It doesn't seem logical that if two people who are cheating, make all the effort to hide the affair and make their rendezvouz, but can't be bothered to use a condom? Is it the thrill of doing something taboo and sneaky? Next thing you know, someone's pregnant or an STD is passed on. What gives?


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## Almostrecovered

it's the one thing I could never confirm or rule out as my wife claims it was always oral due to the fact he never brought a condom


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## lisa3girls

Mine admitted he didn't use one for most of it... grossed me OUT. And he has herpes... he gave it to me and the OW was fool enough to take the risk of a married man giving it to her. 

He said he couldn't 'do it' with the condom.... ugh


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## AppleDucklings

My ex didn't use condoms because he has had a vasectomy. No, I did not flat ask him if he used condoms but I'm sure he did not after I found out he had told the ow of that time, he "could try" to help her have the baby she wanted.


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## Amplexor

Almostrecovered said:


> my wife claims it was always oral due to the fact he never brought a condom


Whew! Good to hear since we all know you can't get an STD from oral sex. 

Sorry AR!


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## sigma1299

I think most people involved in an affair aren't thinking clearly to begin with and this is just another example. I know that people in an affair aren't thinking about their spouse so the idea of passing a STD along to their faithful spouse never crosses their mind.


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## Almostrecovered

Amplexor said:


> Whew! Good to hear since we all know you can't get an STD from oral sex.
> 
> Sorry AR!


I was tested for that reason alone, but she said she was thinking more of getting pregnant than STD's

was basically our biggest fight post dday was about std's and getting tested


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Rubbers are a function of reality. In the fantasy world, such things to not exist.


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## Arnold

One poster on another board , repeatedly, brings up the fact that semen contains certain properties that cause women to get sort of high or addicted or feel good etc. If that is true, perhaps that is why they go after semen.


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## Almostrecovered

Arnold said:


> One poster on another board , repeatedly, brings up the fact that semen contains certain properties that cause women to get sort of high or addicted or feel good etc. If that is true, perhaps that is why they go after semen.





> Semen contains hormones including testosterone, estrogen, prolactin, luteinizing hormone and prostaglandins, and some of these are absorbed through the walls of the vagina and are known to elevate mood.


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## Grayson

Wife's foray into PA was unprotected. In her texts to OM leading up to it, she told him she was "safe" (from pregnancy) because of her tubal libation when our son was born (or, as she put it, she's been "fixed"). Considering OM had a history of sticking it in anything that would let him, I'm astounded she wasn't concerned about STD's.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

A_R Hypothetically would it matter if it indeed turns out that she had a PA? Sorry..


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## Almostrecovered

She did have a pa
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Rubbers are a function of reality. In the fantasy world, such things to not exist.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Cheaters are like drunks who choose to drive their cars risking not only their lives but the lives of innocent people as well. The difference is that drunks get hauled off to jail/prison while cheaters get off scott free.


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## Simon Phoenix

I agree with what is being said here. Like several others, my WW also had unprotected sex with her AP; in MC, she mentioned that they started with a condom but the both of them discarded it shortly afterwards (yeah, a real winner I picked). She said that he was safe because she knew him from high school and he's married but according to her, he's slept around on his wife long before the two of them started hooking up. Let's just say that I had to get myself tested twice. Let's also just say that I will never marry again...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Reminds me of an old coworker of mine. He used to complain among us guys that his wife would rarely have sex with him because she was so afraid of getting pregnant again, since the two daughters they had were so ... unruly. That the only way she would ever have sex with him again, is if he had a vasectomy. So of course, he got the vasectomy, got tested that the vasectomy took hold, and all that. And she still denied him sex. Yeah, he was a doormat and we told him so.

Two months later she was pregnant with an OM's child. Turns out she was quite the skank, banging almost all her male coworkers. He finally grew the balls to kick her to the curb and get full custody of his daughters. But now he was stuck with a vasectomy.


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## K.K.

My husband says he used a condom, but she didn't use anything. It grosses me out that he preformed oral sex on her. ugh! Who knows who she's been with or what disease she has. I don't get it. How do you put your mouth on a complete stranger. The odd part about it is he is so over-the-top about germs and dirty things. He always has hand sanitizar and washes his hands all the time. He won't touch anything dirty. Yet, he picks up a women and has unprotected oral sex with her. I just don't get it. What's the thrill? Disgusting. The the part I truly can't figure out is she's his age (40's) overweight, and not at all attractive. He even admitted that. Whatever.


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## Almostrecovered

KK- I dont how many times I have read that OM or OW has nothing on the BS as far as looks go- in all honesty would you feel better if she was stunning? I also had the strong desire to compare myself to the OM (what did he have or do that I couldn't or didn't do?) but in reality I was comparing myself to a fantasy. It's why only 3% of affair relationships become permanent. As soon as the endorphins wear off they have the same flaws and warts that we all have and then you throw in the fact that there is no trust to be had because the AP is a known cheater.


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## K.K.

Almostrecovered said:


> KK- I dont how many times I have read that OM or OW has nothing on the BS as far as looks go- in all honesty would you feel better if she was stunning? I also had the strong desire to compare myself to the OM (what did he have or do that I couldn't or didn't do?) but in reality I was comparing myself to a fantasy. It's why only 3% of affair relationships become permanent. As soon as the endorphins wear off they have the same flaws and warts that we all have and then you throw in the fact that there is no trust to be had because the AP is a known cheater.


Thanks, Almostrecovered. you always make me feel better when I have doubts. My husband says he feels dirty and ashamed of what he did. He doesn't try to defend himself in any way. He always tells me that I'm beautiful and that she is not attractive. (to be honest, I don't think she is either. I was shocked when I saw her picture. lol). So, yes it does make me feel better that she isn't stunning.


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## KatiezMomma

K.K. said:


> Thanks, Almostrecovered. you always make me feel better when I have doubts. My husband says he feels dirty and ashamed of what he did. He doesn't try to defend himself in any way. He always tells me that I'm beautiful and that she is not attractive. (to be honest, I don't think she is either. I was shocked when I saw her picture. lol). So, yes it does make me feel better that she isn't stunning.


I was really surprised when I found out who my WH was with because she looks a lot like me! I would have thought he would have gone for a short skinny blonde (my opposite) but he picked someone that looks like my sister. And they also didn't use protection, when asked turns out that they don't care if they get pregnant. All I can say is wow.


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## Almostrecovered

KatiezMomma said:


> I was really surprised when I found out who my WH was with because she looks a lot like me! I would have thought he would have gone for a short skinny blonde (my opposite) but he picked someone that looks like my sister. And they also didn't use protection, when asked turns out that they don't care if they get pregnant. All I can say is wow.


yeah I've said before my OM was my doppleganger

he looked like me (chubby, balding shaved head and goatee, same height)
he had many of the same interests (poker, cooking, liked the same tv shows)
also had the same type of humor (sarcastic and silly)


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## AppleDucklings

Here's an actual photo of my exhusband's ow


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## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> yeah I've said before my OM was my doppleganger
> 
> he looked like me (chubby, balding shaved head and goatee, same height)
> he had many of the same interests (poker, cooking, liked the same tv shows)
> also had the same type of humor (sarcastic and silly)


It's odd, I had a different idea of what you looked like....lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AppleDucklings

pidge70 said:


> It's odd, I had a different idea of what you looked like....lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I try to picture what everyone here looks like too. I have had the pleasure of seeing a few members actual photos. But others, I have to use my imagination, but in my imagination, you're all smoking hot! 
:smthumbup:


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## Almostrecovered

pidge70 said:


> It's odd, I had a different idea of what you looked like....lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_













or....









?


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## Almostrecovered

and btw, I'm not so chubby anymore


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## Almostrecovered

apple ducklings obv


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## AppleDucklings

Almostrecovered said:


> apple ducklings obv


 I look awesome!


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## OOE

I stayed for nearly a year after I discovered and confronted my XW. She hid her affairs better (multiple at the same time), but I knew she hadn't completely ended them.

Like many LS's, my brain wasn't right, either.

I was determined that if she was going to sleep around on me, I was going to f___ her like she'd never been f___ in her life. Her libido was through the roof, and she was certainly willing, but I was completely disgusted by her and what I knew she was still doing. One time, afterwards, she said, "I wish we were as good in the rest of our marriage as we are in bed." Talk about a twisted dynamic.

Sorry - my mind went back to "that place." *shudder*

I knew it was unprotected because I found a sponge in her purse - and I'd had a vasectomy.

I was tested for my peace of mind once I was away from her.


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## NatashaYurino

sigma1299 said:


> I think most people involved in an affair aren't thinking clearly to begin with and this is just another example. I know that people in an affair aren't thinking about their spouse so the idea of passing a STD along to their faithful spouse never crosses their mind.


I agree with you, they are not thinking about their SO. But it goes to show how carelessly they are acting. Only thinking about that moment.


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## SadLovingHusband

This was something I quested my WW about as well. It was a drunken, spontaneous moment, was a condom really used? And if so, why did she immediately go and get tested for STDs and only get an HIV test. It would make more sense to me to freak about needing to get tested if it was unprotected. I also recently questioned her about whether she got a pregnancy test at that time or not. We weren't having sex very often back then, and I found it stupid for her to be paying $40/month to be on birth control when we could use a $2 condom for the 4x a month we had sex at most. So she wasn't on the pill and had sex with another man (potentially unprotected sex). Talk about playing russian roulette. She claims she didn't let him finish, that she got a case of the guilts before he blew his load, but maybe she freaked because he wasn't wearing a condom.

I also recently discovered in looking through the old checks from that period of time, that her OB/GYN sent us a bill for the co-pay for that appointment and I actually wrote the check that paid for her STD test (unknowingly obviously). How f'd up is that?


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## JustaJerk

Really??? These people are CHEATING. I don't think they call each other up before their liason to make sure they're packing protection. 

How would that play out-

HIM:_Hey... did you bring the condoms?_
HER:_No... I thought you did_
HIM:_Damn!_
HER:_So, what do we do now._
HIM:_I got it... how 'bout some oral._
HER:_Coooooooool._


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## K.K.

when I asked my husband if he had sex with the OW, he said no. I asked what they did, and he said they just kissed and had oral sex. Idiot. Since when is oral sex not real sex. I think it seems more intimate than actual intercourse. He wore a condom, but she didn't. It grosses me out to think he put his mouth on her without any protection. DISGUSTING. I haven't had the nerve to get tested for an STD yet. I'm hoping my risk is low, due to the fact that it was "just oral sex" and not the "real thing". Wonder how he would like it if I picked up some guy and "just had oral sex." No biggie. right?


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## desert-rose

lordmayhem said:


> One thing that I've noticed from reading all these stories about PAs in this forum and others, even from my ex wife's infidelity, is that a good majority of the time, affair sex means unprotected sex. It doesn't seem logical that if two people who are cheating, make all the effort to hide the affair and make their rendezvouz, but can't be bothered to use a condom? Is it the thrill of doing something taboo and sneaky? Next thing you know, someone's pregnant or an STD is passed on. What gives?


I think that they live in a little bubble in the land of affair fog in which consequences just don't seem to factor. They seem to think they're outside of life, like it's a fantasy. In that fantasy world, the risk of STDs is just another real-world thing that probably just doesn't even exist for them. It seems especially reckless, I think, when the cheating isn't just one partner but involves a bunch of serial cheating with strangers or random hook-ups. It makes me think of that billboard that's all over LA near the airport, "Not everything that happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Call # for Free HIV Testing".


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## JustaJerk

Would it be any less hurtful? I THINK NOT!


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## desert-rose

K.K. said:


> My husband says he used a condom, but she didn't use anything. It grosses me out that he preformed oral sex on her. ugh! Who knows who she's been with or what disease she has. I don't get it. How do you put your mouth on a complete stranger. The odd part about it is he is so over-the-top about germs and dirty things. He always has hand sanitizar and washes his hands all the time. He won't touch anything dirty. Yet, he picks up a women and has unprotected oral sex with her. I just don't get it. What's the thrill? Disgusting. The the part I truly can't figure out is she's his age (40's) overweight, and not at all attractive. He even admitted that. Whatever.


My WH chose not to have oral sex with me (but never objected to a blow job) or even kiss me with any real feeling. That was one of the reasons I knew something was up. One of the things that most infuriated me was that he talked to the OW about how much he enjoyed doing so to her. He's never confirmed, but I get really mad speculating that he did this with strangers, too. I don't know what he did with the randoms from online, but even his emails mentioned that it was discreet kinky fun. Also a selective germophobe. Didn't mind putting his mouth on car parts and strangers' body parts, but apparently, I'm revolting because I trigger his conscience? ...And yet he claims that I have misunderstood their emails and it wasn't really an affair. WH had a condom in his wallet, but claims it had been there for who knows how long...so, maybe he did use protection.


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## JustaJerk

> "Not everything that happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Call # for Free HIV Testing".


F*cking hilarious(the coincidence, I mean.). I just saw that same sign this past weekend, and we talked about going to Vegas this summer.

A friend of mine even said- "_You guys better not be burnin' when we come back_."


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## Saffron

My H did use a condom, however the OW didn't want him to. She told him she got tested because, "who knows what her H was up to" and wanted my H to get tested too because, "who knows what your W is up to." Yeah, she was a real charmer. Anyway, my H never got tested for her and brought condoms to their hotel rendezvous. He kept them hidden in his golf bag. It peeved the OW that he wouldn't skip the condom. 

Oddly enough, after d-day DS told me he never wanted to endanger my health, so it's why he used condoms. I told him I wished he would've thought of my emotional/mental health too.

Anyway, we both were tested for STDs. I pointed out to him that condoms do not protect you from everything and that rolling around naked with her prior to putting on the condom can pick up all kinds of nasties. He really felt sick after I pointed out that fact. He still can't believe how big of a [email protected]$$ he was on so many levels. Who knows if she really got tested and if she was really on BC. Amazing how two people who lie so well can be so trusting they're getting the truth.


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## RWB

When caught after years of multiple affairs, one of the 1st things I asked my wife was "did you or he use any protection?". Of course she lied. In 6+ years of affairs no protection ever in intercourse or oral sex. 

I asked her, "did it not concern you that you potentially were endangering yourself and me with an STD?"... Her response was typical, "I guess I just never thought about it." just another aspect of compartmentalizing. 

"Funny" thing, when our sex life was dropping off the charts, she complained that she feared getting pregnant at 40, even though we always used protection. I called up my doc and promptly got an vasectomy and did the required 6 months of testing. Just another lie.


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## morituri

Fear of pregnancy from having sex with OM doesn't seem to even register on many of the cheating wives mental radar. They are so in lust that they never even give it a thought that is until they miss their period and then reality rears its ugly head and they panic - more so if they haven't had sex with their husbands for some time.


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## working_together

JustaJerk said:


> Really??? These people are CHEATING. I don't think they call each other up before their liason to make sure they're packing protection.
> 
> How would that play out-
> 
> HIM:_Hey... did you bring the condoms?_
> HER:_No... I thought you did_
> HIM:_Damn!_
> HER:_So, what do we do now._
> HIM:_I got it... how 'bout some oral._
> HER:_Coooooooool._


You're such a smart ass!!! lol


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## working_together

morituri said:


> Fear of pregnancy from having sex with OM doesn't seem to even register on many of the cheating wives mental radar. They are so in lust that they never even give it a thought that is until they miss their period and then reality rears its ugly head and they panic - more so if they haven't had sex with their husbands for some time.


I seriously don't remember what was going on in my head during that time in terms of practicing safe sex. I remember we had a brief convo about it....yeah, very dumb. Hubby and I got tested tho, all negative. I remember my husband was floored about my lack of responsibilty in that area, basically said "are you effing crazy, you knew he was a cheat".....


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## Thorburn

lordmayhem said:


> One thing that I've noticed from reading all these stories about PAs in this forum and others, even from my ex wife's infidelity, is that a good majority of the time, affair sex means unprotected sex. It doesn't seem logical that if two people who are cheating, make all the effort to hide the affair and make their rendezvouz, but can't be bothered to use a condom? Is it the thrill of doing something taboo and sneaky? Next thing you know, someone's pregnant or an STD is passed on. What gives?


D-day Nov. 29, 20011.
Frustrating as all get out why she did not use a condom. We have them in my top drawer where my WS puts my socks. They are on top and clearly visible. We rarely have used them and I bought a new batch within the last year. We use other methods but I always had them. All six times that they had sex no protection at all. I have questioned and questioned her about it. She has been tested now for STD's and pregnancy (at age 50) and the tests have been negative. I had her sign a release from her doctor's office so I got the report. Now I will be tested in a few weeks.

I believe it is the fantasy world they created and to hell with everything else. She did not care. She states that I did nothing to make her do this that it was all about pure lust.


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## KatiezMomma

morituri said:


> Fear of pregnancy from having sex with OM doesn't seem to even register on many of the cheating wives mental radar. They are so in lust that they never even give it a thought that is until they miss their period and then reality rears its ugly head and they panic - more so if they haven't had sex with their husbands for some time.


That was one of the things that freaked me out the most when I found out about WH affair, I overheard them on the phone and she was so excited that she might be pregnant after only sleeping together twice! Say what???? A) Not using protection with a woman that is known to be a party girl at the bar and B) Stepping out of a 15 year marriage and wanting to have a baby with the OW right away.....yikes. On DD when I confronted him about it, he said they didn't like condoms (who does, its for safety sake, like a seat belt) and they had talked about having a baby and if it happened they would be fine with it. I told him he needed therapy and a new job to pay for all the child support that is sounds like he is going to be paying if he keeps up.


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## morituri

working_together said:


> I seriously don't remember what was going on in my head during that time in terms of practicing safe sex. I remember we had a brief convo about it....yeah, very dumb. Hubby and I got tested tho, all negative. I remember my husband was floored about my lack of responsibilty in that area, basically said "are you effing crazy, you knew he was a cheat".....


Maybe as it often is with a lot of wives who cheated, your fix wasn't the sex but the attention you got from the OM. You got lucky, you played Russian roulette and were able to dodge a pregnancy bullet.


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## working_together

KatiezMomma said:


> That was one of the things that freaked me out the most when I found out about WH affair, I overheard them on the phone and she was so excited that she might be pregnant after only sleeping together twice! Say what???? A) Not using protection with a woman that is known to be a party girl at the bar and B) Stepping out of a 15 year marriage and wanting to have a baby with the OW right away.....yikes. On DD when I confronted him about it, he said they didn't like condoms (who does, its for safety sake, like a seat belt) and they had talked about having a baby and if it happened they would be fine with it. I told him he needed therapy and a new job to pay for all the child support that is sounds like he is going to be paying if he keeps up.


I don't understand the whole idea of wanting to get pregnant, that part puzzles me, the fact that it's an affair, a short relationship if you will, and plans for a baby???WTF I guess the two people are so wrapped up in the fantasy they don't even care about bringing another child into their crazy world. I remember OM asked me if I wanted to have more kids, I looked at him with this strange face and said "hell no", I was just as effed up as him, but I knew I wasn't going to have a kid for him...sheesh


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## mahike

When I caught my WW I asked her if they use protection and she said yes but I still went. Let us be honest that her affair was about lies so why should I believe they used protection. Then I found out she slept with him again after I was tested so I went again. I went to a clinic both times I really did not want to go see the family doctor. I realized that I had reached a low in my life that at my age I was going to a clinic to be checked for STD that my wife may have picked up.


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## morituri

working_together said:


> I don't understand the whole idea of wanting to get pregnant, that part puzzles me, the fact that it's an affair, a short relationship if you will, and plans for a baby???WTF I guess the two people are so wrapped up in the fantasy they don't even care about bringing another child into their crazy world. I remember OM asked me if I wanted to have more kids, I looked at him with this strange face and said "hell no", I was just as effed up as him, but I knew I wasn't going to have a kid for him...sheesh


Yep the 'birds and the bees' go right out the window.


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## working_together

morituri said:


> Yep the 'birds and the bees' go right out the window.


yeah, in terms of STD's, I just remembered we had a conversation about past partners, he knew I had only been with my husband, so he felt "safe" with me, but, why I didn't question him about his safe sex partners I still don't understand, it's like I was on a suicide mission.


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## KatiezMomma

working_together said:


> I don't understand the whole idea of wanting to get pregnant, that part puzzles me, the fact that it's an affair, a short relationship if you will, and plans for a baby???WTF I guess the two people are so wrapped up in the fantasy they don't even care about bringing another child into their crazy world. I remember OM asked me if I wanted to have more kids, I looked at him with this strange face and said "hell no", I was just as effed up as him, but I knew I wasn't going to have a kid for him...sheesh


Well he and I are seperating so I think the idea is that they are going to ride off into the sunset together. They are talking about a baby, she is taking him to Vegas the weekend we are moving no less, and so on. I know its not about her but she sounds like a hot mess emotionally as well so that's why I think they are pushing for a baby. Or its an early midlife crisis. Or he is just an [email protected], any which way I guess I am better off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustaJerk

^I just read your thread. No... you got it right... he's just an A$$HOLE!


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## warlock07

@mahike She cheated again?


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## lordmayhem

We seem to have more examples about how affair sex means unprotected sex. We have one BS who got an STD from his WW and another WW who is more than likely pregnant by an OM.


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## LoveMyKids80

When I found out my STBXH was having unprotected sex with the home-wrecker, that made it an easy decision to dump his a$$. He'll never wear a condom in his life because he's had a vasectomy. I guess he doesn't really care if he gets any STD's. Loser. I've already been tested, clean as a whistle. Good thing for him.


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## SweetAndSour

My wife never cared to use any protection with any of her 8 lovers while she was cheating on me. No birth control, No STD protection, not even pulling out, she's been a careless cum receptacle. Only on some few occasions other men used condoms on their own discretion.

During those days AIDS was less menagable. Celebrities were dying on the news, daily.

And my wife knew that she was a Hepatitis B carrier.

I said WOW myself after I proof read this post.


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## lovemylife26

I think MH did not think at all because he had the big V and no biggy in that dept so to speak. He did give her oral 1x and that grosses me out that he could do. She gave him oral every time they saw each other and I find out she swallowed. I never swallowed so now he has the feeling of both and think at times he will leave me. The OW is such a hoe I knew her all my life and worked with her she was always flirting with anyone with a penis.


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## lovemylife26

JustaJerk said:


> Really??? These people are CHEATING. I don't think they call each other up before their liason to make sure they're packing protection.
> 
> How would that play out-
> 
> HIM:_Hey... did you bring the condoms?_
> HER:_No... I thought you did_
> HIM:_Damn!_
> HER:_So, what do we do now._
> HIM:_I got it... how 'bout some oral._
> HER:_Coooooooool._


you are too funny, sad;y I had this play in my head at times.
The sad fact is we had condoms because we were still using them because until late Dec he still had his little swimmers. In early Feb and Late Feb that is when they had sex.


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## the guy

My fWW told me the rubber was a most no matter how bad they tasted.


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## Aristotle

In the day and age of texting back and forth, cyber sex, and long term EAs. By the time it turns PA they have had sex 1000 times in their head. Condoms are never in these fantasies or chats so they leave them out when they meet in real life. 

Disgusting.


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## hookares

My ex was pulling trains when she got pregnant from one of the guys. She must have decided it didn't matter since she gave me no reason to believe that baby wasn't mine. What is worse, she continued to do it and had another with one of several other guys and I unknowingly raised them both as mine only to be told they weren't when she served the papers.
Now she has nothing to fall back on other than her back if she wants to maintain any type of lifestyle.
boo-f'en-hoo.


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## RWB

When I caught my wife serially cheating on me for years... After the shock, I asked did you use a rubber? Oh Yes, every time believe me. "Funny, not"! you know she lies once your there facing the betrayal head on. After a few days of yelling, the truth comes out. They never used, considered, or even thought about condoms every time they had sex. 

PIT says it best "Rubbers are a function of reality. In the fantasy world..." exactly. 

She didn't care about anything but herself and the selfish pleasure that it gave her. 25 years of marriage, F' it. It's all about me. That's the facts of an affair.


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## Rainey Okay

Going for my STD tests next week. Clearly condoms were not included in their little fantasy land either. A few months back I had this weird itchy burning feeling "there". I NEVER thought it was an STD. He claims he was tested after the affair ended a few months ago. I have chosen not to believe him. Big surprise.


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## Bills1

I was married for 14yrs and my wife began cheating after our second year of marriage. In the end she was cheating for 12 yrs withs several different guys. Every affair was with single men. She said she was not about to compete with anyone for their attention. Every guy she slept with did not use protection, by her choice. 

I only learned these details after years of counseling and trying to make it work.


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## lordmayhem

Bills1 said:


> I was married for 14yrs and my wife began cheating after our second year of marriage. In the end she was cheating for 12 yrs withs several different guys. Every affair was with single men. She said she was not about to compete with anyone for their attention. Every guy she slept with did not use protection, by her choice.
> 
> I only learned these details after years of counseling and trying to make it work.


Please don't tell me you're still married to this serial cheater. The majority of your marriage has been a lie.


----------



## carpenoctem

Bills1 said:


> I was married for 14yrs and my wife began cheating after our second year of marriage. In the end she was cheating for 12 yrs withs several different guys. *Every affair was with single men. She said she was not about to compete with anyone for their attention. * Every guy she slept with did not use protection, by her choice.
> 
> I only learned these details after years of counseling and trying to make it work.



Oh.

*She probably did not want her SELF-ESTEEM as an unpaid, de facto prostitute, to be affected by competition.*

Understandable.


----------



## LongWalk

Cheating is motivated by the selfish gene's desire to go further than death in latex.


----------



## MSP

Cheating is about intense feelings, so cheaters make decisions that lead to more intense feelings.


----------



## MattMatt

As someone who was in this situation then suddenly wasn't, here's what I can bring to this.

I was mere seconds away from unprotected PIV sex with the OW.

Was she on the pill? I never asked. I mean, how bloody dumb could I be?:scratchhead:

If I'd not had the sudden vision of my wife's face and had the sudden :wtf: moment, I would have had unprotected sex.

What scares me is that I could have become so stupid and so blind as to the likely consequences of my own stupid actions. A pregnant OW? STDs? HIV?

I shake my head at my own stupidity.


----------



## WhiteRaven

The Bs' tend to believe with that the waywards aren't cheating unless the truth becomes undeniable. It's the same for the waywards who tend to believe sex without condoms would have no repercussions. Both BS and WS like to live in their own lala land till reality hits like an 18 wheeler.


----------



## Married but Happy

LongWalk said:


> Cheating is motivated by the selfish gene's desire to go further than death in latex.


LongWalk nailed it. It's about the body's subconscious urge for reproductive success, and not about rational choices.


----------



## MattMatt

Married but Happy said:


> LongWalk nailed it. It's about the body's subconscious urge for reproductive success, and not about rational choices.


In my case the sex was only a small part of it. I was hurting from my wife's affair and the OW shared my hobbies and interests. 

I just wanted someone to talk with who would not dismiss my interests.


----------



## Hurtin_Still

MattMatt said:


> As someone who was in this situation then suddenly wasn't, here's what I can bring to this.
> 
> I was mere seconds away from unprotected PIV sex with the OW.
> 
> Was she on the pill? I never asked. I mean, how bloody dumb could I be?:scratchhead:
> 
> If I'd not had the sudden vision of my wife's face and had the sudden :wtf: moment, I would have had unprotected sex.
> 
> What scares me is that I could have become so stupid and so blind as to the likely consequences of my own stupid actions. A pregnant OW? STDs? HIV?
> 
> I shake my head at my own stupidity.


....tell you what. You can keep shaking your head ....if that's what you have to do ( ...but I don't see it as stupidity.)


....and while you do that, I'll applaud your restraint ....and your conscience.


....on another note ...I'd always like to believe that a condom was used when my wife cheated. I suppose for a few of the obvious reasons ....and ...a somewhat ridiculous one of ...that the POS wasn't truly touching my wife if he wore one. I know it's crazy ...but so are alot of the other thoughts that meander through the mind of the BS.


----------



## HarryDoyle

When I asked my WW if they used protection she looked at me like I had just asked her if she could fly. Purely dumbfounded. She actually told me the thought really didn't cross her mind. She can't get pregnant so she doesn't worry about that. When I asked her about AIDS and other STDs, she said she wasn't really worried, that she "trusted" him. :scratchhead: I mean she had mind fvcked him for the months first, he had to be trustworthy, right???:scratchhead: I was actually pretty calm up to this point, but when she told me that, I blew up!!! I told her I was going to have her arrested for attempted murder with extreme stupidity. Ok, I can't think about this anymore I'm getting pissed.


----------



## bandit.45

HarryDoyle said:


> When I asked my WW if they used protection she looked at me like I had just asked her if she could fly. Purely dumbfounded. She actually told me the thought really didn't cross her mind. She can't get pregnant so she doesn't worry about that. When I asked her about AIDS and other STDs, she said she wasn't really worried, that she "trusted" him. :scratchhead: I mean she had mind fvcked him for the months first, he had to be trustworthy, right???:scratchhead: I was actually pretty calm up to this point, but when she told me that, I blew up!!! I told her I was going to have her arrested for attempted murder with extreme stupidity. Ok, I can't think about this anymore I'm getting pissed.


Yeah. She sounds pretty fvcking stupid. But are you more stupid for staying with her? That's the question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HarryDoyle

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah. She sounds pretty fvcking stupid. But are you more stupid for staying with her? That's the question.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


First of all, I didn't say she *was* stupid, but she did do an extremely stupid thing. As far as me staying with her, well it might be pretty stupid, I guess I must be in the _fog._ But as far as stupid things go, this wouldn't even be in my top twenty (I mean I flew around in a thirty year old airplane for a living, with people shooting at me part of time, now *that* probably wasn't very smart at all). It's hard to believe I've lived as long as I have.


----------



## bandit.45

Stupid is as stupid does. 

Affairs bring out the stupid in all involved.


----------



## TooNice

It was a long time ago, but my H was exposed because the OW got pregnant. I don't know that I ever would have found out about the affair if she hadn't. He claimed they used protection the first time, but not the second (and supposedly last). 

I ran to my GYN for testing. 

I was disgusted for a very long time. A rubber would have at least given me a mental barrier to work with.


----------



## Hurtin_Still

*Re: Re: Affair Sex = Unprotected Sex?*



HarryDoyle said:


> When I asked my WW if they used protection she looked at me like I had just asked her if she could fly. Purely dumbfounded. She actually told me the thought really didn't cross her mind. She can't get pregnant so she doesn't worry about that. When I asked her about AIDS and other STDs, she said she wasn't really worried, that she "trusted" him. :scratchhead: I mean she had mind fvcked him for the months first, he had to be trustworthy, right???:scratchhead: I was actually pretty calm up to this point, but when she told me that, I blew up!!! I told her I was going to have her arrested for attempted murder with extreme stupidity. Ok, I can't think about this anymore I'm getting pissed .


....wow .....have our wives spoken with one another? My wife made the same type of excuses ..when ...after the initial shock of d-day ...I expressed my angered concerns related to STD's ..etc. I told her that she not only endangered her life ....but mine as well ...including the safety and well being of the family. Her response ..."it's not like that" ..."that didn't happen" ...."he didn't have Aids ...STD's". And the ever popular ...."I didn't think of it". 

....of course ...that's when I go completely farking nuts on her ....because that all shoots holes in her "it was a ONS". Really!! ...you KNOW the SEXUAL HEALTH HISTORY of someone you JUST met for the first time!!!


....NOW I'M PISSED AND ANGRY. (time for Xanax)


----------



## Fordsvt

Wow what a thread. One thing that shocks me is how many spouses let the WW screw around over and over. Then not get rid of them. ? To put up with that BS is not healthy at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

(time for Xanax)

I'll take one.


----------



## carpenoctem

HarryDoyle said:


> *When I asked my WW if they used protection she looked at me like I had just asked her if she could fly.* Purely dumbfounded. She actually told me the thought really didn't cross her mind. She can't get pregnant so she doesn't worry about that. When I asked her about AIDS and other STDs, she said she wasn't really worried, that she "trusted" him. :scratchhead: I mean she had mind fvcked him for the months first, he had to be trustworthy, right???:scratchhead: I was actually pretty calm up to this point, but when she told me that, I blew up!!! *I told her I was going to have her arrested for attempted murder with extreme stupidity.* Ok, I can't think about this anymore I'm getting pissed.



That's hilarious.


WS Rationalization: eg:

Husband comes home early, finds wife with the building's security guard, naked in the bath.
He: What the hell?
She: *You KNOW I am scared of water.*


----------



## OhGeesh

lordmayhem said:


> One thing that I've noticed from reading all these stories about PAs in this forum and others, even from my ex wife's infidelity, is that a good majority of the time, affair sex means unprotected sex. It doesn't seem logical that if two people who are cheating, make all the effort to hide the affair and make their rendezvouz, but can't be bothered to use a condom? Is it the thrill of doing something taboo and sneaky? Next thing you know, someone's pregnant or an STD is passed on. What gives?


Yes, maybe in emotional driven affairs, but in affairs that are more transactional protection is the norm for almost everyone I know.

For the exact reasons you mentioned!!


----------



## cantthinkstraight

My EWW told me the OM was "fixed" (after I asked her "what if
you would've gotten pregnant?").

Personally, I think she got (gets) off on that.

Probably felt more like "love" to her, being able to climax together and all.

When we were in false R, she asked me not to pull out when we
were having insane sex and right away, it made me ask myself 
"why would she want that unless she liked it?" 

It made me stop immediately cuz I thought of them together.


----------



## Rottdad42

Pit claimed it before I had a chance. But I will second it. A condom brings reality, reality brings fog clearance, fog clearance brings thinking. You can't have thinking when it comes to that. I had a girlfriend once, I remember it was my first time (virgin), I think I remember saying to her "wait I need a condom, I don't want to get you pregnant." In the heat of it and being the first time, we didn't wait too many hormones flying. IMHO, I think this is what people feel like when infidelity is happening. I felt the same way, when I first had the wonderful feeling after so long without it. I think I answered the question.


----------



## hookares

The last thing on a cheating wife's mind is trying to protect her idiot spouse's health from social diseases. Since she regards the guy who is "filling in" for her husband to be far superior to the husband, she takes it for granted that he must be clean of any diseases.
The only time her husband gets any consideration at all is when she needs something from him.


----------



## carpenoctem

hookares said:


> The last thing on a cheating wife's mind is trying to protect her idiot spouse's health from social diseases. *Since she regards the guy who is "filling in" for her husband to be far superior to the husband, she takes it for granted that he must be clean of any diseases.*
> The only time her husband gets any consideration at all is when she needs something from him.



QFT


----------



## Fenix

hookares said:


> The last thing on a cheating wife's mind is trying to protect her idiot spouse's health from social diseases. Since she regards the guy who is "filling in" for her husband to be far superior to the husband, she takes it for granted that he must be clean of any diseases.
> The only time her husband gets any consideration at all is when she needs something from him.


Yes, and that goes for the cheating husband too.


----------



## Laurel

Like so many others, my WH did not use protection. He was just soooo sure that these women who were so willing to fall into bed with a married man were clean of any STDs because they didn't "seem" like the type of woman that normally did that type of thing. Right. 

One of the most humiliating experiences of my life was going to get tested for STDs because my husband cheated on me. The doctor asked why I wanted testing if I was married - and I burst into tears. Completely mortifying.


----------



## FormerSelf

I believe one of the TAM members here discovered the affair after inexplicably received a secondhand STD. I can't think a worse way to find out.

I don't see a lot of new posters here respond to it much when we suggest it to them...maybe because it is unthinkable...but seriously folks, if you suspect your spouse of cheating...GET TESTED!!!


----------



## Regret214

hookares said:


> Since she regards the guy who is "filling in" for her husband to be far superior to the husband, she takes it for granted that he must be clean of any diseases.


This has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've read in a long time here at TAM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Regret214 said:


> This has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've read in a long time here at TAM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please elaborate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Regret214

bandit.45 said:


> Please elaborate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For me it was misplaced logic: He was married for a while before we met. I've had a tubular. Logic told me he was safe. Obviously, now that I've put some distance between that idiocy, I see that he was quite possibly playing other women with the same thing. That put me at risk, not to mention Dig.

The xOM was never regarded by me as superior in any way. He was simply an escape from my reality. Hence, I was able to allow no protection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Hmm. Interesting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Regret214

bandit.45 said:


> Hmm. Interesting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please elaborate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Regret214 said:


> Please elaborate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Regret214

Why not? I mean I've got nothing to hide. I answered your question. Why are you afraid to be as open? Or is it easier to offer such an ambiguous commentary because there's no thought behind it?


----------



## carpenoctem

QUOTE= by *hookares* 
_The last thing on a cheating wife's mind is trying to protect her idiot spouse's health from social diseases. *Since she regards the guy who is "filling in" for her husband to be far superior to the husband, she takes it for granted that he must be clean of any diseases.*_




Regret214 said:


> This has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've read in a long time here at TAM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




*Regret:* Hello.

1)	You and dig are a successfully reconciled couple, so this interaction would be a bit askance, logic-wise.

2)	I have been trying my best to avoid talking to other posters directly, to obviate possible friction.


*Still:*

Let me explain why I think this (statement by hookares) could have truth, in a broad sense:

You now say, and perhaps even then (while you were deep in the affair) thought / KNEW that the OM in no way was superior to Dig.

But as we often say here, it’s the actions that count, not words, or thoughts.

I recollect (correctly, I hope), from your / Dig's thread:

Dig came home, you and he were discussing a trip somewhere, and you, in the middle of this talk, were texting your OM, promising to book the hotel / motel room for your next sexual tryst.

Dig gets a classic bike, is elated at owing it, assists you in learning to ride it / familiarizing yourself with it… …and the next day(?) you take it for a ride. And you go straight for a quickie with the OM.

In the first instance, Dig was planning a moment of leisure for you two (the psychs say one of the biggest romantically bonding factors between spouses is: sharing leisure), and you interjected the OM into it.

In the second, he was being vulnerable, sharing his pride of ownership of a man-toy (the bike), and you shared the object of pride the next day with the OM.

These sort of ACTIONS give a superior place to the OM over the spouse (howsoever temporary it is), whether you consciously view it as such / admit it to yourself, or to others.

Especially when one doctors in *the heavy emotional and other investments the husband makes, to gain the wife’s affection / preferential treatment, and the ease (minimal investment) with which the Other Man gains / usurps it.*

That is what I think.

*But I am just a man, and at the chromosomal level, incapable of really understanding women.*


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> QUOTE= by *hookares*
> _The last thing on a cheating wife's mind is trying to protect her idiot spouse's health from social diseases. *Since she regards the guy who is "filling in" for her husband to be far superior to the husband, she takes it for granted that he must be clean of any diseases.*_
> 
> *Regret:* Hello.
> 
> 1) You and dig are a successfully reconciled couple, so this interaction would be a bit askance, logic-wise.
> 
> 2) I have been trying my best to avoid talking to other posters directly, to obviate possible friction.
> 
> *Still:*
> 
> Let me explain why I think this (statement by hookares) could have truth, in a broad sense:
> 
> You now say, and perhaps even then (while you were deep in the affair) thought / KNEW that the OM in no way was superior to Dig.
> 
> But as we often say here, it’s the actions that count, not words, or thoughts.
> 
> I recollect (correctly, I hope), from your / Dig's thread:
> 
> Dig came home, you and he were discussing a trip somewhere, and you, in the middle of this talk, were texting your OM, promising to book the hotel / motel room for your next sexual tryst.
> 
> Dig gets a classic bike, is elated at owing it, assists you in learning to ride it / familiarizing yourself with it… …and the next day(?) you take it for a ride. And you go straight for a quickie with the OM.
> 
> In the first instance, Dig was planning a moment of leisure for you two (the psychs say one of the biggest romantically bonding factors between spouses is: sharing leisure), and you interjected the OM into it.
> 
> In the second, he was being vulnerable, sharing his pride of ownership of a man-toy (the bike), and you shared the object of pride the next day with the OM.
> 
> These sort of ACTIONS give a superior place to the OM over the spouse (howsoever temporary it is), whether you consciously view it as such / admit it to yourself, or to others.
> 
> Especially when one doctors in *the heavy emotional and other investments the husband makes, to gain the wife’s affection / preferential treatment, and the ease (minimal investment) with which the Other Man gains / usurps it.*
> 
> That is what I think.
> 
> *But I am just a man, and at the chromosomal level, incapable of really understanding women.*


Well put.

With the examples given above, I can understand why someone would think the husband is coming in 2nd to the OM. And I would agree.


----------



## Wolf9

I am from India ( Third world country with 1.2 billion population with rigid backward society having 2% divorce rate due to arranged marriages not forced by the way, patriarchal society, blatant Misogyny, non existent dating pool available for both males & females after divorce etc)

Some can argue that females & to the extent males have to endure tough marriages as there are no other alternatives in many cases or maybe it's an exaggeration. Maybe there are comparatively less extra marrital affairs as different or you can argue rigid male female boundries in the society.

I found this site yesterday & feminist in me is kind of glad that females are pro actively ending marriages like males though cheating is no way to go about it. But for me both of them are equally gillible.

After reading various cheating scenarios IMO worst of the lot happens due to unprotected affair sex when OM conceive a child while husband ignorantly raise it. This thrill of unprotected sex is maybe due to basic human mating psychology where male member wants to have multiple children for continuous of his gene pool. I am not big fan of word Karma( It's originates from my birth religion Hinduism as I am atheist). Here there is no Karma for colossal mistake of male of he unknowingly raises OM's child. Case of willingly opting out of ever having biological children is different case though. It's simple case of survival of fittest where OM's genes are continued while husband never had any biological children thus ending his gene continuous. I am not big fan of afterlife either so it's equivalent greatest cuckolding that nature can offer. Females have inherent advantage in this case they don't have to worry about genes in the baby.

These are two worst case examples IMO due to unprotected sex where both husbands have only child in marriage which is not their. Finding out after 1.5 years & 6 months. Cruel & ultimate betrayal due to cheating. Case of having to face faith of the carrion crows that raise the cuckoos' young despite of having highest IQ in animal kingdom.



http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/53893-do-you-regret-divorce-after-infidelity.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/53926-she-cheated-got-pregnant.html


----------



## Wolf9

I am from India ( Third world country with 1.2 billion population with rigid backward society having 2% divorce rate due to arranged marriages not forced by the way, patriarchal society, blatant Misogyny, non existent dating pool available for both males & females after divorce etc)

Some can argue that females & upto some extent males have to endure tough marriages as there are no other alternatives due taboo nature of divorce or maybe it's an exaggeration. Maybe there are comparatively less extra marrital affairs as different or you can argue rigid male female boundries in the society.

I found this site yesterday & feminist in me is kind of glad that females are pro actively ending unhappy marriages though cheating is no way to go about it. But for me both of them are equally gillible in case of cheating.

After reading various cheating scenarios IMO worst of the lot happens due to unprotected affair sex when OM conceive a child with wife while husband ignorantly raises this child. This thrill of unprotected sex is maybe due to basic human mating psychology where male member wants to have multiple children for continuation of his gene pool & females wanting to this for carnal pleasure. I am not big fan of word Karma( It's originates from my birth religion Hinduism even though I am an atheist). Here there is no Karma for colossal mistake of male if he unknowingly raises OM's child. Case of willingly opting out of ever having biological children is different though. It's simple case of survival of fittest where OM's genes are continued while if husband never had any other biological children which will result in ending of his gene continuation. I am not big fan of afterlife either so to me having biological children is equivalent of afterlife via genetic continuity. It's greatest cuckolding that nature can offer. Females have inherent advantage in this case as they don't have to worry about DNA testing of baby.

These are two worst case examples IMO due to unprotected sex where both husbands have only one child in the marriage which is conceived by OM & finding out after 1.5 years & 6 months after birth of child. Cruel & ultimate betrayal due to cheating. Case of having to face faith of carrion crows that raise the cuckoos' young despite of having highest IQ in animal kingdom.

Search for threads by ShatteredWorld & whoami2012.


----------



## Regret214

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> *Regret:* Hello.
> 
> 1) You and dig are a successfully reconciled couple, so this interaction would be a bit askance, logic-wise.
> 
> *Like an alcoholic, we work on reconciliation every day. In my opinion, reconciliation will be something to work on.*
> 
> 
> 
> Dig came home, you and he were discussing a trip somewhere, and you, in the middle of this talk, were texting your OM, promising to book the hotel / motel room for your next sexual tryst.
> 
> Dig gets a classic bike, is elated at owing it, assists you in learning to ride it / familiarizing yourself with it… …and the next day(?) you take it for a ride. And you go straight for a quickie with the OM.
> 
> In the first instance, Dig was planning a moment of leisure for you two (the psychs say one of the biggest romantically bonding factors between spouses is: sharing leisure), and you interjected the OM into it.
> 
> *What you describe and what happened are a bit different. First, Dig and I had scheduled a date night and were waiting to go out to dinner. There was no trip or anything that we were taking or planning. Dig was watching television prior to us going out and I sat on the couch on the other side of the room, where I sent a text to the xOM that we were set to meet the following week. I sent two texts. There was no interjecting the xOM into any of our date night. The sitter didn't arrive at our house for about another hour and a half.*
> 
> 
> In the second, he was being vulnerable, sharing his pride of ownership of a man-toy (the bike), and you shared the object of pride the next day with the OM.
> 
> *I do not know where you got this interaction from. Dig owns 2 motorcycles. His Harley and a Suzuki. He bought his Harley in 2007, the year my affair began. He bought the Suzuki in 2005. I took the MSF Riding Course in 2010 because I wanted to learn how to ride. Dig didn't teach me how to ride and most certainly wouldn't allow me, an amateur compared to his 20+ years of riding, to take his Harley out for a spin. It was a month or so after taking the MSF course that I rode the Suzuki to work. Later that day, after I had already been home and we had eaten dinner, I met up with the xOM. I never took the motorcycle there. Not once.*
> 
> 
> These sort of ACTIONS give a superior place to the OM over the spouse (howsoever temporary it is), whether you consciously view it as such / admit it to yourself, or to others.
> 
> Especially when one doctors in the heavy emotional and other investments the husband makes, to gain the wife’s affection / preferential treatment, and the ease (minimal investment) with which the Other Man gains / usurps it.
> 
> *Unfortunately, this is a heavy handed and far too loose attempt at human psychology. You see, when you state things like the above using verbiage the way you did, it comes off to the vulnerable as intelligent, when in fact it sounds more like a weed induced musing. Utilizing big words and the prose style in which you write, most of the times makes you sound like Buddha. However, the above sounds more like Mr. Miyagi to me. *
> 
> That is what I think.
> 
> *But I am just a man, and at the chromosomal level, incapable of really understanding women.*


On your final statement, I can only offer you a 4 on the 10 scale of snarkiness. Again, rather heavy handed and ham fisted.

Then again, you are just a man.


----------



## carpenoctem

*Regret:

*For factual inaccuracies in quoting from your and Dig’s threads, apologies. But they still have contextual relevance, I presume.

By 'interjecting the OM', I was not referring to physically interjecting him, but allowing him into that private module of life you and Dig were sharing.

I don’t take weed, Lady. No weed, no booze, no cigarettes. But hardly ever sober. Or healthy. Damn.

*For trying to sound intelligent, apologies again. I am an average-looking short man with a micro-phallus, and not much money. What else am I supposed to do but try to sound intelligent? Let me do an unmanly thing by agreeing with you there.*




Confession: I really like your husband.


----------



## Regret214

*carpenoctem*...by effect any man or woman who involve themselves in extra-marital affairs are interjecting the affair partner into their lives - at ALL times throughout the affair and not just when enjoying a leisure time. It by no means has anything to do with unprotected sex - the topic of the thread. Also, the topic to which I responded when a poster stated that unprotected sex occurs because the woman regards the affair partner superior to their spouse. I think you must agree that that is far too blanket of a statement to make and paints only the woman with the broad brush, while the man is...well...the man and there is no deep discussion of why he chose not to use protection.

I recall Dig enjoyed his banter with you and actually it was his words that came to mind when I made the Mr. Miyagi reference. I fondly remember him saying you were a mixture of Buddha, Yoda and Mr. Miyagi in his mind in one of his threads.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I'm a former wayward and the only women I've ever slept with without a condom is my wife. Even if I was completely trashed I still managed to use one. Like most waywards my rationalization compass is off at times. In my mind I loved my wife too much to put her health at risk. 

One time a condom broke with an AP and I had to lie my wife and told her that I wanted to start using them again so I could last longer. During that time I got tested. How noble of me huh???? I can't even begin to understand the choices I made back then.


----------



## MattMatt

Well here's my understanding of what I did. Why didn't I go the the chemist's to buy condoms ready for the event?

Because if I had done that I would have acknowledged to myself that I was planning to cheat on my wife. And the whole dumb construct would have tumbled down before it even got started.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReformedHubby

MattMatt said:


> Well here's my understanding of what I did. Why didn't I go the the chemist's to buy condoms ready for the event?
> 
> _Because if I had done that I would have acknowledged to myself that I was planning to cheat on my wife. And the whole dumb construct would have tumbled down before it even got started._
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A little off topic but I never understood the need to lie to myself about what I was looking for and what I was about to do. Perhaps that's why I was always prepared. 

I don't just see it with condoms though, I see it with booze too. People get smashed so they can tell themselves and their spouses later on it only happened because I drank too much. 

It happens with locations also. Oh I just happened to be at the same place that my AP is at randomly and things happened. This is one of many aspects of cheating I can't relate to even though I'm a former wayward. Is it so people can make themselves feel better about what they're doing? I guess it just seems pointless to me to fool yourself.


----------



## MattMatt

ReformedHubby said:


> A little off topic but I never understood the need to lie to myself about what I was looking for and what I was about to do. Perhaps that's why I was always prepared.
> 
> I don't just see it with condoms though, I see it with booze too. People get smashed so they can tell themselves and their spouses later on it only happened because I drank too much.
> 
> It happens with locations also. Oh I just happened to be at the same place that my AP is at randomly and things happened. This is one of many aspects of cheating I can't relate to even though I'm a former wayward. Is it so people can make themselves feel better about what they're doing? I guess it just seems pointless to me to fool yourself.


Oh. I drank too much, too.


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## carpenoctem

Regret214 said:


> *carpenoctem*...by effect any man or woman who involve themselves in extra-marital affairs are interjecting the affair partner into their lives - at ALL times throughout the affair and not just when enjoying a leisure time. It by no means has anything to do with unprotected sex - the topic of the thread. Also, the topic to which I responded when a poster stated that unprotected sex occurs because the woman regards the affair partner superior to their spouse. I think you must agree that that is far too blanket of a statement to make and *paints only the woman with the broad brush, while the man is...well...the man and there is no deep discussion of why he chose not to use protection.*




There is the question of the womb. The woman CAN get pregnant. On the face of it, the possibility of pregnancy must logically make women (WWs) worry more in the immediate sense, than men (who of course will have long-term repercussions in case of an OW getting pregnant).

Men also somewhat flippantly shrug off an STD possibility when the OW is someone’s wife (= less ‘exposed’ compared to a single woman). I guess the same rationale must work in the WW’s mind too, when the OM is a married man (despite the “all men cheat” axiom).

Or *maybe it’s more realistic to think one just does not care enough to be scared, once the hormones begin to buzz.*

You’d agree that *Psychology is mostly common sense (only better codified), and observed wisdom. For instance, I don’t need to be a psychologist to know that many posters here (including me) would not be able to follow their own advice as well as they expect those whom they advise, to do. Nor do I essentially need a term such as ‘cognitve dissonance’, to describe it.

Also, that ironical statistical fact(?): Marriage Counselors have one of the highest divorce rates. What freaking paradox is that?*

To twist some shrink humour:

Two TAM posters meet: One says: "Hello. How am *I* feeling today?"

Or even better: Two TAM posters have sex. One asks: "That was good for *you.* How was it for *me?*"

Please convey to Dig my regards and best wishes.


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## See_Listen_Love

I do not know if it has been mentioned already but in case not:

I think the evolutionary urge to procreate demands that there is no condom, otherwise cheating would be useless from that point of view. Evolution does not give about disease (as long as a child is the result), and WANTS pregnancy, so that is at least one explanation.

The human issues of 'feeling', excitement, haste, have no place in that, other than being conscious side effects of largely unconscious emotional processes.


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## Regret214

As a biology/chemistry teacher (Master's Degree level) with a focus in DNA, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of what you've stated. The biological imperative to reproduce has nothing to do with having an affair. When one state things as if they're pure fact, it sounds to the masses like truth, when in fact it is an opinion based on something you read somewhere and interpret it in your own way.

Otherwise, how can you explain my using condoms for over a decade with every sexual partner I had before meeting my husband? Including a long term relationship of 5 years. I mean, why did my "urge to procreate" not override my most fertile time period of my 20's?

Trust me, I understand the basis of your theory. Just try not to portray it as pure fact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurtin_Still

....all the scientific and biological reasoning for unprotected affair-sex makes for some decent reading ....and thought provoking moments.

......but ....I'll just see it as usually being attributed to stupid, uncaring selfishness.


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## Graywolf2

Regret214 said:


> As a biology/chemistry teacher (Master's Degree level) with a focus in DNA, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of what you've stated. The biological imperative to reproduce has nothing to do with having an affair.
> 
> Otherwise, how can you explain my using condoms for over a decade with every sexual partner I had before meeting my husband? Including a long term relationship of 5 years. I mean, why did my "urge to procreate" not override my most fertile time period of my 20's?


We have some things in common Regret. I have a Ph.D. in genetics and I used a condom first time every time until I was engaged. 

I had never had sex before and didn’t plan to that night. When I discovered she was willing I wasn’t prepared even though I was a boy scout. I was about to take the plunge when a vision of her pregnant popped into my head. Somehow I stopped myself and we made a date for 9 the next night. 

Back then all the condoms were behind the counter and you had to ask for them. I drove frantically from drug store to drugstore but all of them had a male pharmacist and a girl behind the counter. I didn’t want to ask a girl but I finally had to as 9 approached.

Years later Bob Seger came out with a song called “Nine Tonight.” It comes on the radio less often now. But when it does I smile and hope my wife doesn’t notice.

“She says she wants some rockin' 
Shes got the right man 
I'm gonna take her ridin' 
Out past the edge of town 
Out where the wind's still racin' free on the heartland 
I'll be there nine tonight 
nine tonight 
nine tonight 
Can't wait for nine tonight”


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## Married but Happy

Regret214 said:


> Otherwise, how can you explain my using condoms for over a decade with every sexual partner I had before meeting my husband? Including a long term relationship of 5 years. I mean, why did my "urge to procreate" not override my most fertile time period of my 20's?


There are always exceptions to the average, and you may be able to think and behave more rationally than the average. Statistically, it is true that people having affairs are less likely to use birth control, and it's also true that women having affairs are more orgasmic with their AP than their spouse. Biology is _influencing _these behaviors, not dictating them.


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## SteveK

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> QUOTE= by *hookares*
> _The last thing on a cheating wife's mind is trying to protect her idiot spouse's health from social diseases. *Since she regards the guy who is "filling in" for her husband to be far superior to the husband, she takes it for granted that he must be clean of any diseases.*_
> 
> 
> You are so right hear. My STBXW that her POSOM is clean,,she ignores the warnings that he was a womanizer..she admits that he is inadequate in the little OM so he is mostly into oral..our old MC told her he probably is on meds since she said he's kind of "dry".
> 
> SHE ALSO CLAIMS THAT SINCE SHE IS OVER 50 she is safer..
> 
> This is a PHD! In nutrition speaking by the way...
> 
> All of it TMI,
> 
> I TOLD HER THAT IF SHE EVER WANTED TO COME NEAR ME SHE WOULD NEED A FULL STD WORKUP AND Also need to TAKE A BATH IN ALCOHOL!
> 
> [/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Regret:* Hello.
> 
> 1) You and dig are a successfully reconciled couple, so this interaction would be a bit askance, logic-wise.
> 
> 2) I have been trying my best to avoid talking to other posters directly, to obviate possible friction.
> 
> 
> *Still:*
> 
> Let me explain why I think this (statement by hookares) could have truth, in a broad sense:
> 
> You now say, and perhaps even then (while you were deep in the affair) thought / KNEW that the OM in no way was superior to Dig.
> 
> But as we often say here, it’s the actions that count, not words, or thoughts.
> 
> I recollect (correctly, I hope), from your / Dig's thread:
> 
> Dig came home, you and he were discussing a trip somewhere, and you, in the middle of this talk, were texting your OM, promising to book the hotel / motel room for your next sexual tryst.
> 
> Dig gets a classic bike, is elated at owing it, assists you in learning to ride it / familiarizing yourself with it… …and the next day(?) you take it for a ride. And you go straight for a quickie with the OM.
> 
> In the first instance, Dig was planning a moment of leisure for you two (the psychs say one of the biggest romantically bonding factors between spouses is: sharing leisure), and you interjected the OM into it.
> 
> In the second, he was being vulnerable, sharing his pride of ownership of a man-toy (the bike), and you shared the object of pride the next day with the OM.
> .[/B]


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## bigfoot

Just chiming in, but all of that symbolic crap about unprotected sex because the other man was viewed as superior is ridiculous. 

Perhaps if you consider the age of the people involved you would see that a lot of middle aged and older folks don't use protection as much. There is an increase in STD's going on in that population. There formative sexual years were not in the midst of the HIV AIDS crisis. This is not a rule, just a factor. Secondly, they are probably used to having unprotected sex with their spouse, so once things get started, going unprotected was just automatic. third, they really were not thinking all that clearly. Seriously, they are betraying their marriage vows, risking their future, their time with their kids, lifestyle changes, etc and they are gonna focus on a condom? Not likely. Also, they are, with the exception of ONS people, in a relationship with the AP, thus, relationship sex= unprotected. Nothing about the guy being superior or anything like that. No symbolism, no its a woman thing, no inferior cuckold stuff.


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## See_Listen_Love

Regret214 said:


> As a biology/chemistry teacher (Master's Degree level) with a focus in DNA, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of what you've stated. The biological imperative to reproduce has nothing to do with having an affair. When one state things as if they're pure fact, it sounds to the masses like truth, when in fact it is an opinion based on something you read somewhere and interpret it in your own way.
> 
> _Otherwise, how can you explain my using condoms for over a decade with every sexual partner I had before meeting my husband? Including a long term relationship of 5 years. I mean, why did my "urge to procreate" not override my most fertile time period of my 20's?_
> 
> Trust me, I understand the basis of your theory. Just try not to portray it as pure fact.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think the challenge for man is to prevail with discipline and ratio over his instincts.

If I see you, you succeed in that. But our instincts do not change because of our intellect. And I believe (<- 'believe') that evolution does not have morality in itself contained.


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## See_Listen_Love

Regret214 said:


> As a biology/chemistry teacher (Master's Degree level) with a focus in DNA, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of what you've stated. The biological imperative to reproduce has nothing to do with having an affair.


In evolutionary biology EVERYTHING people do has to do with reproduction, and is explained in terms of being beneficent or not with regards to procreation.

But I am not a scientist.


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## Machiavelli

Married but Happy said:


> There are always exceptions to the average, and you may be able to think and behave more rationally than the average. Statistically, it is true that people having affairs are less likely to use birth control, and it's also true that women having affairs are more orgasmic with their AP than their spouse. Biology is _influencing _these behaviors, not dictating them.


Correct. Some people have the capability to override limbic drive with rational control, others have little or no impulse control whatsoever; which is why we have incurable strains of gonorrhea, coming soon to a high school near you.


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## carpenoctem

Machiavelli said:


> Correct. Some people have the capability to override limbic drive with rational control, others have little or no impulse control whatsoever; which is why *we have incurable strains of gonorrhea, coming soon to a high school near you.*




Never thought one could find such things mirthful. But after coming here, well... ...


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## Regret214

Married but Happy said:


> Statistically, it is true that people having affairs are less likely to use birth control, and it's also true that women having affairs are more orgasmic with their AP than their spouse.


Can you point me to where you are getting your statistical data from? Again, I can only give my experience and I can honestly tell you that I had an orgasm the first few times with the xOM. I faked it every single time afterwards. It was almost 4 years before I had another one and that was due to manual stimulation. Done by myself the last 3 times we were together.

I think maybe the men in the room _want_ it to be more orgasmic for the women, when in fact it was simply more orgasmic for them and it'd be difficult to think they didn't please the woman to the same extent.


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## bigfoot

That orgasm statistic is really misleading. Affair sex is forbidden and that adds to the mental allure. Also, sex is designed to produce orgasms, so if women orgasm during affair sex, that is because it is sex. Does that same statistic show that women who orgasm during affair sex DON'T orgasm during relationship sex AND continually orgasm with the same intensity throughout the affair? I doubt it.

Sex with your wife was awesome the first few times as well, thereafter, no so much. Good, sure. Great, sometimes. So so, sure. If it was fireworks and OH MY GAWD for you every time then count yourself lucky and rare. 

Seriously, women ARE NOT like men. What get's them off is not the same as for us. Hold a woman's hands, touch her, say nice crap through out the day and she is going to be ready for action. Its the courtship. The first part of the affair was courtship. Maybe through out, but the newness of the experience wore off.

Confession time and I'm not sure how it helps, but: In college there was this girl who dated this star athlete. I mean he was a freaking physical specimen. 6 ft 9in tall and cut. Also, hung like a bull elephant. She told me. Guess who she chased, Me. Who did she call after she left him, me. Who did she want to see before she went with him, me. I was no where near this guy. Still, I got in her head and she craved me. Due to that I satisfied her a few times while we were CLOTHED! It was all mind or matter. She was willing to be my side piece. After a while, fooling around became mundane, but the emotional connection still rocked her world.

My point is that that satisfaction comes from other stuff, but we as dudes equate female sexuality with our own experiences and you cannot. Listen to Regret.


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## hookares

Sorry if I muddied the waters of this thread. My views are spun from the only information which I have personal experience. My cheater bore two children fathered by two other guys who, for a short period of time were considered to be the best of the best as far as she was concerned. Alas, she wasn't long in deciding to cheat on them, as well since she was in search of "the one".
Did she care about my health? Not if it didn't keep me from earning enough to provide the things she felt she and her "friends" deserved. I stand by my comments in regards to how my ex felt about me. Perhaps other cheaters feel differently and hold their cuckold spouses in higher regard.


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## Regret214

hookares said:


> Perhaps other cheaters feel differently and hold their cuckold spouses in higher regard.


Is this inner anger and hatred you feel? I'm confused by the comment. I mean, are you saying that you're not a cuckold because you divorced and men who attempt to reconcile are?


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## hookares

Regret214 said:


> Is this inner anger and hatred you feel? I'm confused by the comment. I mean, are you saying that you're not a cuckold because you divorced and men who attempt to reconcile are?


Once a cuckold, the label sticks. Unless, of course, you abandon all and distance yourself from those who know it.
Angry? No question. Hatred? Don't use the word.
My anger is reserved for myself in letting two decades go down the toilet without discovering the betrayal.


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## MattMatt

hookares said:


> Once a cuckold, the label sticks. Unless, of course, you abandon all and distance yourself from those who know it.
> Angry? No question. Hatred? Don't use the word.
> My anger is reserved for myself in letting two decades go down the toilet without discovering the betrayal.


It only sticks if you want it to.


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## Regret214

hookares said:


> Once a cuckold, the label sticks. Unless, of course, you abandon all and distance yourself from those who know it.
> Angry? No question. Hatred? Don't use the word.
> My anger is reserved for myself in letting two decades go down the toilet without discovering the betrayal.



But that's not YOUR fault. It's hers for being a liar and hiding everything. I think you're way too hard with yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

I would find it very difficult -- if not impossible -- to be anything less than absolutely and completely bitter if I'd spent 18+ years of my life loving, raising, and providing for my children, only to discover that they weren't my biological offspring.


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## larry.gray

GusPolinski said:


> I would find it very difficult -- if not impossible -- to be anything less than absolutely and completely bitter if I'd spent 18+ years of my life loving, raising, and providing for my children, only to discover that they weren't my biological offspring.


ANNND, being more than willing to continue to love them only to have them turn around and dump you like a sack of old potatoes.


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## carpenoctem

GusPolinski said:


> I would find it very difficult -- if not impossible -- to be anything less than absolutely and completely bitter if I'd spent 18+ years of my life loving, raising, and providing for my children, only to discover that they weren't my biological offspring.





larry.gray said:


> ANNND, being more than willing to continue to love them only to have them turn around and dump you like a sack of old potatoes.



Two major parts of his life story as a Man alive – he as husband, and he as father – just fell off from under his feet one day.

*He thought he was the husband, only to realize he was just the third hand.

He thought he was the father, only to realize he was just the warden.*

In retrospect, to him, his marriage resembles a burlesque – and he was assigned a clown’s role without his knowledge or consent. That too, for so bloody long – almost two decades of some of the most productive years in his life.

I have no clue with what philosophy he manages/d to reconcile with that kind of a twisted destiny.

I hope his health at least is all right.


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