# Help me think clearly



## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Yesterday the WS (we are in R) reminded me he had work related training to go to most of the day today. Since I have access to his work email I followed up by checking his calendar and those facts still check out as they had when I looked previously. Except yesterday I notice the training location - the same office complex his pregnant xOW (from everything I know, not his baby but who really knows) was moved to six months ago (same employer). He and I discussed it and I felt somewhat better but not convinced. I feel it is a red flag he omitted mentioning the location. 

At lunch he mentions a friend of his who I don't care for would be in town today and said friend wants to meet up after work even though WS already works late every Thursday as it is. I let him know I'd rather he not go as tomorrow is our youngest's HS graduation! He doesn't seem convinced to take a rain check with the friend. Another red flag. 

Another red flag..... all of this comes on a regularly scheduled day I work from home and he knows that schedule. Our house is almost 40 miles away from his training location today. I also realized he left the house this AM long before he needed to and I have a strong suspicion he never went to his office ahead of time - his emails remain unchecked and he never answered his phone. The training location is no more than 10 minutes from his regular office. If he did not go to his regular office ahead of the training this morning he had PLENTY of time to spare before it started. 

I've not had a good feeling about this and his initial omission of the training location (he was honest when I called him on it but it seems not enough and a little too late) is very suspicious to me. 

Emotionally speaking, I'd like to text him and blast him but one, it won't do any good and two, if he is lying this would let him know I'm onto him and he'd have all day to try and dream up a good lie about his whereabouts.

I realize I could just be paranoid but I don't have a good feeling about this. If he has spent one second around the xOW, he's gone.

Advice needed on how to handle this. One, I don't want to react in an overemotional state; anxiety is pretty high right now and I'm not thinking clearly. Two, our youngest is graduating tomorrow and there will be a ton of family and friends around; I will make EVERY attempt to avoid ruining my kid's day. If that SOB is lying to me again and given the timing of this current BS with our kid's graduation, he truly is the most selfish pig I know.

I want to be wrong but how to ferret this out? I have to work today and I can't drive the 40 miles to play amateur PI and frankly, the idea sounds tiresome. If he is lying, how to determine, and if so..... I'd rather he admit it and just pack his crap and leave. I've had divorce papers ready to go since last year shortly before dDay. A review and maybe a couple updates and I can file.

Also, he just texted me to say he arrived at his training location and was Mr Chatty about it. I did not say much in response.

Help!


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## BruisedGirl (Apr 4, 2013)

This sounds a lot like what I deal with most of the time. That gut feeling that gnaws at you and just won't stop yet you have no way to know for sure without them being honest and confessing. I hate that feeling. 

The paranoia is such a b!tch to deal with and they just don't seem to understand it. 

So sorry you're going through this. I hope this turns out to be nothing. 

Wishing you the best.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

For years my wife lied. I was never at rest until her confession a few weeks ago. I still do not trust her and there are days where she is at work where I trigger but for the first time in her life she is being truthful, accountable and transparent. When my wife is at work her cell phone does not work, it can't pick up a signal in her office. She knew I did not like this and she gave me her work number so I can check on her at any time. Being totally accountable is reassuring. Until your WS gives you that you will always have doubts.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Sounds suspicious for sure, but could be true. If his work emails are too clean and if he’s got a secret email account, you may need to use a VAR in his car.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Sounds suspicious for sure, but could be true. If his work emails are too clean and if he’s got a secret email account, you may need to use a VAR in his car.


His work emails do seem a bit clean but for the record, he has no clue I have access to his work email. Back last fall when this all blew up, he tried to maintain contact with the xOW via work email but subject matter was innocuous. Yet, him maintaining even innocent looking email contact with her (as an example, forwarding her a job announcement or similar) was his way, I believe, of trying to keep her "hooked" or "still be friends." One time she responded to his email with 'Thanks' and another time there was no response from her at all.

Bear in mind my WS was only one of her OM (her ex discovered six in that timeframe and yes, we've both been STD tested). I heard HOURS of convo on my VAR and have had two close friends listen.... I think WS was plenty interested and she was iffy but definitely stringing him along. She has a rep at the office for being a d*ck tease with the older guys she's flirty with.

She lives with and is pregnant by one of the other men she was fooling around with at the same time last year. By all accounts she is happy with him but I take that with a grain of salt.... it could be false info/just gossip or they could break up, I trust none of this situation.

I am aware of a secret email account he opened but never used. I have the password for it but there's been no activity on it at all. I have not detected him opening up another email account. However, he could have another email he created and accesses elsewhere; work, library, wherever, just not at home. He does not have a smart phone. He only has the one cell phone and if he has a burner phone I've never been able to find it - I have looked.

VAR, I have one and that's what I used to get proof of the affair last year. First week nothing, second week..... bingo. I contacted the OW's now ex boyfriend (long term; they were engaged, owned a house together, etc) with the proof and shortly thereafter dday with wide exposure to include their workplace. They both still work there but in different locations about 20 minutes apart, she was moved as a direct result of the HR investigation. They were both almost fired.

Haven't used the VAR in some time since dday because after many weeks post dday, nothing more affair-wise on the VAR. 

With everything I have access to monitor, there has been nothing - zero - with the xOW since last fall. I've wanted to put a GPS on his car but he's a car guy and knows every inch of that thing. I don't think he would intentionally look for a GPS but I'm afraid he would stumble upon it while working on it, cleaning it, whatever else. 

At this point he's down to phones (burner, random pay phones, work phone) or encounters during the day. She's also very pregnant right now so I don't know how appealing she would be to him at this point. OTOH, nothing would surprise me anymore either.

He's been very cooperative, in IC, and from all appearances not trying to rug sweep. However, I thought I knew him before and so I'm not sure I can trust my own instincts any longer either.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

He's hiding something. He didn't tell you he'd be at OW's work place and conveniently is meeting a friend? Nope. Red flags, he's lying. Too coincidental.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Did you mean to say he'd rather be in the company of a friend than attend his kid's hs graduation? If so, fock the preggers OW and dump him for this alone!


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

TryingToRecover said:


> His work emails do seem a bit clean but for the record, he has no clue I have access to his work email. Back last fall when this all blew up, he tried to maintain contact with the xOW via work email but subject matter was innocuous. Yet, him maintaining even innocent looking email contact with her (as an example, forwarding her a job announcement or similar) was his way, I believe, of trying to keep her "hooked" or "still be friends." One time she responded to his email with 'Thanks' and another time there was no response from her at all.
> 
> Bear in mind my WS was only one of her OM (her ex discovered six in that timeframe and yes, we've both been STD tested). I heard HOURS of convo on my VAR and have had two close friends listen.... I think WS was plenty interested and she was iffy but definitely stringing him along. She has a rep at the office for being a d*ck tease with the older guys she's flirty with.
> 
> ...


Well, here's hoping he is being faithful. 

But were it me, I'd continue to monitor.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Did you mean to say he'd rather be in the company of a friend than attend his kid's hs graduation? If so, fock the preggers OW and dump him for this alone!


No, graduation is tomorrow evening and he would have met the friend this evening. We just have a lot going on which is why I preferred he put his friend off for another time, which he did and he showed me their texting back and forth. 

He never misses anything to do with our kids but he often tries to dump all the responsibility stuff on me. This time he did not.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Well, here's hoping he is being faithful.
> 
> But were it me, I'd continue to monitor.


The monitoring isn't going to stop anytime soon, that's for sure.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

distraughtfromtexas said:


> He's hiding something. He didn't tell you he'd be at OW's work place and conveniently is meeting a friend? Nope. Red flags, he's lying. Too coincidental.


I know, right? 

He did lie by omission regarding the training location (ultimately it was two buildings down from where she's located) but *so far* everything else is checking out, MUCH to my surprise. The lying by omission thing has already been the subject of two conversations and will be brought up during the next counseling session.

I ended up having a conversation via text with one of his coworkers today who was at the training with him. He doesn't know we've talked (or for that matter that we've ever talked) but everything she's told me is matching up with what he's told me. This coworker no longer likes WS or the OW, not since everyone at their work found out about the affair. She has no reason to lie to me and has been truthful and helpful in the past, so I believe her. The coworker I spoke to also said at no time today did she see the OW around.

WS's friend is actually in town ..... the friend is a higher level manager and works for the same very large, statewide employer I do and it finally occurred to me I have access to his calendar. The two-day meeting is on his Outlook calendar and the invite was set up by a secretary, not him. Hotel info and everything. I called the hotel, asked for ______'s room and he answered. 

Since so far his story is actually appearing to check out, I sort of feel like an idiot for posting about it here. On the other hand, if this d*mn affair had never happened I wouldn't be paranoid or feel the need to go on fact checking missions. 

I just hate this..... in a few months it'll be a year since dDay and we are in R but sometimes, often times, living with this paranoia of mine really makes me wonder why I am even bothering.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

I still feel like he's hiding something. Maybe it's just that he was hoping to see OW and wanted to set himself up for that. But a totally transparent WS would have told you the moment they knew they would be in the vicinity of OW. He made the choice to keep it from you. The question is why.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

TryingToRecover said:


> Yesterday the WS (we are in R) reminded me he had work related training to go to most of the day today. Since I have access to his work email I followed up by checking his calendar and those facts still check out as they had when I looked previously. Except yesterday I notice the training location - the same office complex his pregnant xOW (from everything I know, not his baby but who really knows) was moved to six months ago (same employer). He and I discussed it and I felt somewhat better but not convinced. I feel it is a red flag he omitted mentioning the location.
> 
> At lunch he mentions a friend of his who I don't care for would be in town today and said friend wants to meet up after work even though WS already works late every Thursday as it is. I let him know I'd rather he not go as tomorrow is our youngest's HS graduation! He doesn't seem convinced to take a rain check with the friend. Another red flag.
> 
> ...


Find a way to question him rationally about his day. If he doesn't understand your need to do this (and you should feel free to explain) and starts over-reacting and bullying you and whining about how you don't trust him, you have your answer either way. It won't matter if he is seeing her or not, if he can't understand your need to ask questions and to receive answers so that you can gauge the status of your own marriage, well, ewwwww. Who needs that? There's things other than cheating that make a poor partner.

You can decide what to do later. 

Look out for yourself. Focus on your work, your earning potential, and your parenting to your son. Take time out for a bit to do something nice for yourself that will feed into tomorrow (a manicure, etc. or anything else that will make you shine tomorrow, even a nap or watching a funny video on-line, etc.) Don't let his past actions and your worries over how HE might be shooting himself in the foot today, detract from what you can do for yourself, and your future self, regardless of what's going on. You take care of you. That's the best way to deal with whatever it is that's going on today. Do what you can. Stay aware. Hold your ground. Be realistic, and feed into your own stability.

There is a fine line between being paranoid and being aware and smart. I find that focusing on something else and realizing that it's not a life-threatening physical situation, but a somewhat abstract one...(although not entirely) helps. If I can get 10 minutes into a demanding work task, I'm in the clear for the next few hours. ;-)

Do you think there's any possibility he is jerking you around emotionally, using the situation and how it looks, to provoke you into de-stabilizing? So he would have a reason to start an argument, in response to your questioning? It's something to think about...if he has control issues.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

My son has graduated (yay!) and guests have left, just WS and I here now. We didn't discuss the situation again until today, his lying by omission.

Because I have enough information to the contrary, I do not believe he and the OW were planning on running into one another on purpose or "by accident." However, this doesn't make the lying by omission any easier to stomach. In fact, I see it as just as bad as trying to run into the OW.... a lie is a lie is a lie. I see it as a major setback to reconciliation and let him know that late this afternoon during our conversation about it. 

Initially during our talk he seemed amenable to what I had to say until I told him if he couldn't be completely transparent with me then he needed to leave and stay gone. At that point he got defensive and tried to turn the situation around on me, a chronic defense mechanism for him. 

Basically, he omitted advising me of the training location because of how he believed I would react to the information. Then he went on to tell me he was "scared" to even let me know that his guy friend was in town; I don't like his friend for a whole host of reasons, least of which is the guy is a major narcissistic a**hole. 

I feel nothing but gutted and really only have a desire to sleep these days. I'm only in my 40's but I feel like I've wasted a lifetime on him. I hate liars.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

TryingToRecover said:


> Yesterday the WS *(we are in R)* reminded me he had work related training to go to most of the day today. Since I have access to his work email I followed up by checking his calendar and those facts still check out as they had when I looked previously. Except yesterday I notice the training location - the same office complex his pregnant xOW (from everything I know, not his baby but who really knows) was moved to six months ago (same employer). He and I discussed it and I felt somewhat better but not convinced. *I feel it is a red flag he omitted mentioning the location. *
> 
> At lunch he mentions a friend of his who I don't care for would be in town today and said friend wants to meet up after work even though WS already works late every Thursday as it is. I let him know I'd rather he not go as tomorrow is our youngest's HS graduation! He doesn't seem convinced to take a rain check with the friend. *Another red flag. *
> 
> ...





TryingToRecover said:


> My son has graduated (yay!) and guests have left, just WS and I here now. We didn't discuss the situation again until today, his lying by omission.
> 
> Because I have enough information to the contrary, I do not believe he and the OW were planning on running into one another on purpose or "by accident." However, this doesn't make the lying by omission any easier to stomach. In fact, I see it as just as bad as trying to run into the OW.... a lie is a lie is a lie. I see it as a major setback to reconciliation and let him know that late this afternoon during our conversation about it.
> 
> ...


Dear TryingToRecover,

I think the question is whether you are *both* in reconciliation mode or if only *you* are doing your best to rebuild your marriage.

If you have any doubts about your WH's commitment to reconciliation, you need be up front with him about this rather than letting your doubts fester. You are the betrayed; he is the betrayer. You should feel comfortable telling him what is and what is not acceptable to you. Tell him exactly what you don't like about his behavior and what you want him to do differently. If he argues, remind him that you are prepared to end the marriage if he can't give you what you need.

Then, see how he reacts. If he "gets it" and does what he needs to do, you will have improved your chance of reconciling. If he doesn't, then you will have to decide whether you are prepared to remain with an adulterous spouse who is only half-heartedly working on his marriage or if you are ready to divorce him.

The key to a successful marriage is good communication and a sincere desire to satisfy each other's needs. It's the same with reconciliation, only in this case, the BS's needs are paramount. If your WH doesn't understand this, it's your job to inform him. If he doesn't accept this, then your reconciliation will likely fail and the sooner you find this out the sooner you can start building a new, happy life without him.

Good luck.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi,

Feeling 'paranoid' or that something is off is normal. You are, naturally, hyper sensitive to anything that is not 100% spot on.

It *sounds* to me like he is being truthful but you never really can tell can you?

Keep doing what you are doing. He should be open to any questions you have and, furthermore, behave differently if something he does upsets you.

I hope it works out for you. Marriage is such a precious thing and worth fighting for IMHO.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

TryingToRecover said:


> My son has graduated (yay!) and guests have left, just WS and I here now. We didn't discuss the situation again until today, his lying by omission.
> 
> Because I have enough information to the contrary, I do not believe he and the OW were planning on running into one another on purpose or "by accident." However, this doesn't make the lying by omission any easier to stomach. In fact, I see it as just as bad as trying to run into the OW.... a lie is a lie is a lie. I see it as a major setback to reconciliation and let him know that late this afternoon during our conversation about it.
> 
> ...


Ahhh, blaming you for being angry in the past, and projecting that past, LEGITIMATE anger into the present. How typical. Please feel free to point out to him why you should not be characterized as a person who is prone to anger based on his past provocations of your anger in a huge and substantial way. His thinking on your reaction is completely illogical, and yet another reason for legitimate anger. Clearly, he benefits from having you angry. Thus, I recommended curtailing expressions thereof. Point out to him his illogical thinking, and advise him to grow up and behave like a mature partner who is capable of being in a relationship, rather than keeping information from you based on his supposed "fore-knowledge" of your reaction.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Men are often terrible at avoiding any conflict under any circumstances, with their wives. There are many jokes regarding that type of behaviour. And certainly, my man has avoided telling me things for fear of bringing up certain issues or triggering me.

Of course this is wrong thinking, of course this is not TOTAL transparency and not what we want.from them either. I think you just need to keep drumming it into him that this type of omission is wrong and does more harm than good. 

And of course, keep on your toes. Crap I know, more than crap. But it is that or finito!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Did you mean to say he'd rather be in the company of a friend than attend his kid's hs graduation? If so, fock the preggers OW and dump him for this alone!


Yep. Cheating on the children, too. What a class act he is, for sure...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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