# No concrete proof



## QUESTIONS001 (Oct 17, 2013)

Hello,
I think I just want to talk some things through. My husband and I have been together for a long time, married almost 20 years. 

I haven't caught him cheating as in actually having sex but there seems to be a lot of emotional cheating.

The most recent incident happened a couple of weeks ago. He has to go out of town for work and he did not want to tell me who he was going with at first. When I asked again he hesitantly told me everyone going. It was the way he said the first name that threw up the red flags. He swore nothing is going on but I've check the phone records and they have been chatting and texting a bit to much for just co workers and always when he is on the way home or while we are away at the kids activities. 

I would never say my husband wouldn't cheat, I've never been one of those women to say that but I'm frustrated that I can't really get the concrete info. He says the calls/text are work related, yeah, what else is he going to say? And I'm so pissed and disappointed because he has to go on this trip. I can't believe they are stupid enough to start anything on one hand and on the other it's the perfect set up because they both have A LOT to lose. He said you can call and ask her and I said what I said above. She has just as much to lose as you, you think she is going to tell me yeah we are having an emotional affair? 

I can't believe I have to stoop so low as to get a voice recorder to try and figure out some kind of way to get it in his bag for this trip but I've done it. 

I'm embarrassed because it's nothing worse than an office romance and you go there and they sit there like nothing is going on and disappointed. 

He hasn't changed much, he still says he loves me all the time. I'm the best thing that's happened to him. He can't say it's sex because we still have sex at least 3 times a week. And the things that kills me is the girl is no where near his type. We laugh and talk all the time. I mean we are still wrestling on the floor like little kids. He really is my best friend and I asked him what on earth are you looking for that you are not getting? I married young early and he is a few years older than me. But I could help but tell him to grow up. I know it should but like I told him something has got your attention and since physically she is not your type it's mental and I think in a way that is worse.

This isn't his first time doing this. He got busted 2 years ago for this same sort of things and I found out he talk with the girl for over 7 years. The only saving grace (or maybe not) is he has never been out of town and I watch our bank account like a hawk so whoever he gets they must not ask him for a dime. Not saying she has never come here. With his job I can't just pop up if he says he is staying late or had to leave for a while, I have to believe him because he doesn't have to be in his office. He has amble ways to cheat so I will never be able to keep up. 

One girl invited him to her house for dinner. I've had a man call me because he said his wife was talking to him...at my home! Like I told the man, the only thing I can assure you of is that he hasn't been out of state so she would have had to come here. So I don't know any more than you. 

I'm soooo tempted to tell her husband or talk to her but it will not be pretty if I do. Things will spiral out of control quickly for both of them personally and professionally.

My issue I think is I'm considering divorce. I'm sick of it and I don't want to do this every 2 years. I'm tired. I told him the trust is gone even if you will not say you all having something going I'm not stupid and don't treat me like I am. Now they have this trip and I've been worrying myself sick on thinking what will happen. 

So anything you all can do to help would be nice. 
Thanks for listening (well reading  ).


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Like so many others, you're letting fear hold you back from the life you deserve. 

Here...
The Healing Heart: The 180


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

VAR in his car


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## QUESTIONS001 (Oct 17, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Like so many others, you're letting fear hold you back from the life you deserve.
> 
> Here...
> The Healing Heart: The 180


Thanks Anchorwatch, I've read the list and you are right. I know part of it is fear because we have been together longer for most of my adult life. Part of the issue is I genuinely like him. I don't want to get swallowed up in the snooping and that is all I've thought about since this has happened. 

I'm going to keep reading this list and get myself together. 
Thanks again.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit (Sep 14, 2013)

QUESTIONS001 said:


> Hello,
> I think I just want to talk some things through. My husband and I have been together for a long time, married almost 20 years.
> 
> I haven't caught him cheating as in actually having sex but there seems to be a lot of emotional cheating.
> ...


So sorry you are in this journey, if you read my post, is very very similar to what is happening to me except that in this case is my W.......I can comprehend the pain you are feeling now....if you ever need to chat let me know, I'm here

I'm starting therapy today, for me, to make me stronger so if it gets to that point I'm well prepare.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Does he guard his phone, or can you pick it up and peruse it anytime? Email? Facebook?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

QUESTIONS001 said:


> My issue I think is I'm considering divorce. I'm sick of it and I don't want to do this every 2 years. I'm tired. I told him the trust is gone even if you will not say you all having something going I'm not stupid and don't treat me like I am. Now they have this trip and I've been worrying myself sick on thinking what will happen.
> 
> So anything you all can do to help would be nice.
> Thanks for listening (well reading  ).


If this is something that has been ongoing, it's a slippery slope, and it's just a matter of time before one of these emotional connections goes physical. 

Women actively seeking affairs is dramatically on the rise. A recent EDU. study indicated that more women than men are initiating affairs. 

In my case my AP pushed and pushed for sex each time we talked. 

She later told my wife she befriended her to get close to me. 

There is no reason for these women to be so friendly with a married man. 

If she needs attention, she needs to talk to her husband. 

But my AP was looking for an upgrade. She was eyeing my wallet, too, not me.

I agree, VAR in the car. 

Tracker on the car


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Read this book

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

It will help strengthen your resolve.


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## QUESTIONS001 (Oct 17, 2013)

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> So sorry you are in this journey, if you read my post, is very very similar to what is happening to me except that in this case is my W.......I can comprehend the pain you are feeling now....if you ever need to chat let me know, I'm here
> 
> I'm starting therapy today, for me, to make me stronger so if it gets to that point I'm well prepare.


Thanks lovelife, I've been reading a bunch of stories this morning and I will read yours also. Thanks for the offer to chat.


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## QUESTIONS001 (Oct 17, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> Does he guard his phone, or can you pick it up and peruse it anytime? Email? Facebook?


Sad,
No he has always had a tight grip on his phone. I learned his password 2 years ago but he was very good about deleting everything after that last episode 2 years ago with the girl he talked with for 7 years. That one I found out about because of Facebook and he forgot to log out. So he doesn't use Facebook much anymore.

I don't have access to his email but that is how I learned about the girl that invited him to dinner, again he left his account open so that one he hardly ever checks anymore.


I looked at the phone records today and things gain momentum in August and September. To the point that he was calling her on the way home (20+ min phone calls), he talked to her on our anniversary, my birthday, after our kid's games (on the drive home I guess) while my kid was in the car coming from practice, and was texting her at times when I know I was sitting on the sofa and he was in the chair so right under my nose. So it was really building up and I think if I hadn't found out this upcoming trip would have been about more than an emotional affair. I really in my heart think things would have become physical and it still might.


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## QUESTIONS001 (Oct 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> If this is something that has been ongoing, it's a slippery slope, and it's just a matter of time before one of these emotional connections goes physical.
> 
> Women actively seeking affairs is dramatically on the rise. A recent EDU. study indicated that more women than men are initiating affairs.
> 
> ...


Thanks I already ordered a voice record but I'm not sure how much it will help because he gets to use a company car. I will never be able to get my hands on that car. That is also the reason that GPS won't work the car is parked. Since he knows I know about the phone calls I doubt if he will use his personal phone to call her again. So that means the calls on the way home will stop because I'm sure he doesn't want the company to see the spike in phone calls to her. They were averaging per billing cycle 110 minutes.


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## QUESTIONS001 (Oct 17, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Read this book
> 
> Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"
> 
> It will help strengthen your resolve.


Thanks for the book recommendation. I will definitely be reading this one.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

So many people use the excuse that they don't know the exact level of detail of what is going on, therefore the don't do anything.

Basically, your husband is inappropriate. He is having close relationships with females and did not answer you with what is missing from his marriage. What is the point of proving this or that?

You have the information you need. But, mabye you don't want to lose your marriage. That's understandable.


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## QUESTIONS001 (Oct 17, 2013)

Hicks said:


> So many people use the excuse that they don't know the exact level of detail of what is going on, therefore the don't do anything.
> 
> Basically, your husband is inappropriate. He is having close relationships with females and did not answer you with what is missing from his marriage. What is the point of proving this or that?
> 
> You have the information you need. But, mabye you don't want to lose your marriage. That's understandable.


I totally agree with you Hicks on all of it. I will NEVER know everything and I don't know why I'm having this sick obsession to find out. I want to lash out at her because she is at home with her husband and her baby leading their happy little life and my home is in turmoil. BUT it not her fault really, she doesn't owe me anything it was his job to stop the advance or not start them however this little thing started. 

I don't want to lose my marriage. I'm very happy in with my marriage (besides these issues and yes it enough) but obviously he's not. I'm trying to process this I really am I'll be the first to admit I'm struggling...badly.

I'm not a moody person and I don't cry a lot but today I'm having a bad day. I've gone from being pissed which is what I was for about a week, didn't shed a tear, to being hurt and embarrassed and then I get pissed again because I shouldn't be embarrassed I didn't do anything. Today is the first day I've cried about this issue. I know it shouldn't matter but the fact that they work together is driving me insane and making it much harder to deal. The fact that they have to go on this trip will probably drive me to the breaking point. I'm pissed that I'm even considering that I want to pull my kids out of school just so I can keep an eye on him. Not going to happen but still the thought did cross my mind.

I know I should care about the specifics I already know it was inappropriate, he knows and she knows (she left it in a voicemail). I just need to decide if I want to my almost 2 decades marriage to end because my husband is stupid and can't seem to stop with these emotional affairs. What a waste. Sigh, I'm tired already and the battle is just starting.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

So, basically, your husband learned absolutely nothing from his past experience, not even how to cover his own tracks better. I feel bad for you.


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## QUESTIONS001 (Oct 17, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> So, basically, your husband learned absolutely nothing from his past experience, not even how to cover his own tracks better. I feel bad for you.


That about sums it up. He thinks the fact that they work together explains all this but really it doesn't. If they had kept the times during business hours he probably could have gotten away with it but not at night and on weekends. Nothing about their job has to be discussed that long and at those times it could wait until business hours.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

You have to figure out what your own personal boundaries are before you can get past this. You say you might want a divorce but then it sounds like you want to turn a blind eye not to "give up what you have." It sounds to me like your H is a serial cheater and has no respect for you. You have to decide for yourself if that is something you are willing to accept or not. I am sorry you are dealing with this. You deserve better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QUESTIONS001 (Oct 17, 2013)

distraughtfromtexas said:


> You have to figure out what your own personal boundaries are before you can get past this. You say you might want a divorce but then it sounds like you want to turn a blind eye not to "give up what you have." It sounds to me like your H is a serial cheater and has no respect for you. You have to decide for yourself if that is something you are willing to accept or not. I am sorry you are dealing with this. You deserve better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very true distraught and I'm trying to work my way there. This is still new but I'm not turning a blind eye, I know something needs to be done because obviously it doesn't seem like he is going to stop. I will very much admit that I'm riding the fence here. I know some will probably be rolling there eyes and saying I'm stupid but like everyone else that was in this position it take time to get on solid ground. I admit the decision would be a lot easier if I caught him physically cheating. 

I'm going to have to see someone to work this through. 

I'm just hurt and my kids will be...ugh I don't even want to think about it but I'm not going to let this continue for the kids. I know it will take time but they will have heal with me. I'm so frustrated... This is really, really hard for me because I don't just love him I like him. I know I'm not suppose to focus on the positives he does (from that list that was provided) but he is all positive sans the emotional cheating. I'm rabbling so obviously I've very confused.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

QUESTIONS001 said:


> Very true distraught and I'm trying to work my way there. This is still new but I'm not turning a blind eye, I know something needs to be done because obviously it doesn't seem like he is going to stop. I will very much admit that I'm riding the fence here. I know some will probably be rolling there eyes and saying I'm stupid but like everyone else that was in this position it take time to get on solid ground. I admit the decision would be a lot easier if I caught him physically cheating.
> 
> I'm going to have to see someone to work this through.
> 
> I'm just hurt and my kids will be...ugh I don't even want to think about it but I'm not going to let this continue for the kids. I know it will take time but they will have heal with me. I'm so frustrated... This is really, really hard for me because I don't just love him I like him. I know I'm not suppose to focus on the positives he does (from that list that was provided) but he is all positive sans the emotional cheating. I'm rabbling so obviously I've very confused.


Did I misunderstand or didn't he do this before 2 years ago? 

EAs are still affairs. Remember that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

And is it not worse for the fact that you are still so close? You like each other, your physical relationship is still strong - what an insult. 

You are being forced into this situation, pure and simple. It is a massive weight but you are being forced to act. Get all your ducks lined up (evidence) and then deal with it. Don't rush in.

In the meantime you have to find it within yourself to be as level headed as possible. You have to have to do this when it feels like your world is collapsing. Not easy. But do this you must until you have that irrefutable evidence.

I fully understand your mixed emotions and wavering position. This is but one of the insidious symptoms of what you suspect. Be strong, be vigilant and gather up the information you need.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I would talk to her husband. Today. In person. With a copy of the text log. You want to crush this crush? Get allies.

I would even consider going to visit H R and his boss if he did anything but shape up immediately. That includes a N C letter, a transfer or what ever to get away from the OW asap. Full transparency.

He wants to be an idiot, the treat him like one. He is an addict right now. He has shown his judgement cannot be trusted. If you want a chance at a chance to save your marriage, unfairly you are the one who has to start the ball rolling, because he just wants his fix of brain drugs. He cannot be trusted to be rational or use good judgement, not until he comes out of the affair fog. That could take months.

If you must, take your concerns to his work, to H R. Don't inform him of your intentions about crushing the affair, just do what you feel is needed. You could consider yourself at war for your marriage, and right now, he is not your ally.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

You say they are EA's....how do you know? Is your only evidence his word?

I would highly doubt they are 'just' EA's. He sounds like a serial cheater. And the biggest red flag for cheating is the guarding of the phone.

You are also not keen on 'lowering yourself' to snooping...this is not a lowering. This is empowerment. He is pulling the wool over your eyes, has repeatedly done so, does not give you the truth, and so the only answer left is to snoop. Never feel bad about it! 
I know why you do. We are programmed not to. I was the same. I regret massively not snooping better and earlier. I also made the same mistake as you have done: told him what I found. 
This does nothing because it does not make them tell the truth. It just informs them of what they have to hide. 

NEVER....EVER....reveal your sources of information. 

The best thing you can do now is hire a PI to follow him the moment he leaves the door on his 'business trip'. I wouldn't be surprised if there is no business trip.

You can get some great advice here for every step of your investigating and confrontation and after...if you so wish. This forum is a great tool for getting through the process from the suspicious start to the evidence gathering to the finale of confrontation. And beyond. It is up to you if you wish to use it.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

P.s. If, on his return, there is anything on the VAR that sounds like he is alone with a woman and becoming cosy, STOP LISTENING! Get a trusted friend to listen for you. Or someone on this site may do you the favour. You do not want to hear what you know is about to happen. It will be branded upon your memory forever. It will be unbearable pain. Don't do it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I was waiting and finally Remains said the obvious - your H is a serial cheater. He had an illicit relationship with another woman for 7(!) years. And then the dinner date and the co-worker and, and....Who knows if it's been physical. It would be surprising if none of it was. No matter, though, he's a serial cheater who will always be betraying you because that is his way of life.

If you're truly tired of it and can get past the fear, I would stop trying to catch him and tell him to hit the road. 7 years, indeed.


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