# The Details: Something you can't unforget



## shecheatedVA (Nov 11, 2012)

If you saw my earlier post, I recently found out my wife (then my girlfriend) cheated on me. This was 15 years ago in college but she confessed a few months ago. I also indicated that I wanted the details. Some of you warned me but I had to know so I could minimize the mental movies playing out.

Unfortunately some of the information is worst than I had imagined and some other things aren't so bad. As I mentioned earlier, she confessed to having sex (actual intercourse 2x) and attempted once more but he couldn't get it up. 

From what she describes of the sex, she said it was forgetful. He basically got on top and thrusted for 10 minutes and then busted. When I asked about the size of his c0ck she actually laughed and said it was quite small. That mine was much bigger. 

Evidently his special talent was giving oral which during that time and age, we didn't do much of. She said that she came once when he did oral on her. I, as a fool, asked on a scale of 1-10 the intensity, and she said *7*. She said it wasn't something we did and he was really good at it. My gut about dropped. I just imagine her laid up on the bed exploding with a mind numbing body shaking O. 

I can't get that image out of my head. I've spend the better part of 2 hours obsessing and replaying it over and over and over again! WTF is wrong with me. I know it doesn't do me any good but I can't help myself. A couple times I thought I was going to puke thinking about it. 

I guess you better be careful of what you ask and be ready to handle it. How do you go about getting this out of your head. How will I ever be able to go down on her and not think about this!!!?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

THink about what? That you want to be better then POS Om and work it? Or think about what this POS OM can do and you can't? Come on man don't let this POS win and get down there a trace the alphapit out with your tonge...she'l love it.

My point is...change your technique and kick OM butt and be a better licker then him...get it?

Your letting this POS dictate your life..phuck him and and be the better man in all aspects including emotionally, physically, and sexually.

screw him besides yours is bigger then his, so you got that going.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm slightly surprised that she can remember the details.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

aug said:


> I'm slightly surprised that she can remember the details.


Apparently they were unforgettable for her too, contrary to what she says.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Much of a woman getting off that way involves herself letting herself go when you're doing that. Tell her that a big part of you getting past this is being the best at that too. Ask her to both let you know what she likes and let herself go and enjoy it freely when you do.

See if she'll go along.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Now, this is exactly why I wanted no details of my wife's affair, thank you very much.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

PErhaps the way to deal with it is to tell you wife that she better have enjoyed the oral he gave her because you will never from this day forward give that to her. She threw that away when she cheated with him.

Oral is forever off the table for her.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> PErhaps the way to deal with it is to tell you wife that she better have enjoyed the oral he gave her because you will never from this day forward give that to her. She threw that away when she cheated with him.
> 
> Oral is forever off the table for her.


That is not the way to heal.

Google how to do a good job down there and give WW better.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Now, this is exactly why I wanted no details of my wife's affair, thank you very much.


This is why the BH gets to control what questions get asked.

The level of detail needed is different for each BH.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> PErhaps the way to deal with it is to tell you wife that she better have enjoyed the oral he gave her because you will never from this day forward give that to her. She threw that away when she cheated with him.
> 
> Oral is forever off the table for her.


Wow, are you kidding??? that's big time punishment, why not work on the issues, he needs help getting over the images.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

It doesn't sound like the sex your wife and OM had was all that great, and she only rated oral as a 7, that's not really all that high. If a woman is really enjoying that aspect of sex, it would be around a 9 or 10, there really isn't a low score for oral, either it's good or it sucks.

I still don't get why people want the details, and yet I can understand that some need it to move past all the mind movies they have. But, then once they have the details, they obsess about those details just as much as they ran those movies over and over.....not much difference really. blah


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

shecheatedVA said:


> Unfortunately some of the information is worst than I had imagined and some other things aren't so bad.
> 
> When I asked about the size of his c0ck she actually laughed and said it was quite small. That mine was much bigger.
> 
> ...


Size, I think all WW's say that. Throwing the BH's a bone.

So he licked her to a 7# O. You can google and learn that knowledge.

Recovery is a 2 to 5 year process. Time will make the memories fade. I had something happen. Everytime I would have to travel by that place it would cause me to trigger. It took me 10 years to be able to drive pass there and not trigger.

Two years ago I have a new place that the thought of going there would cause me to trigger. I don't have to go there. Family likes to go there for outings. Family can go there I won't for now. Who knows for how many years till I forget.

Simple version. Thing is over 30 years ago my wife and I sep'd. We got back togther. Blame is mine that we sep'd.

Things is she had an OM during that time. At first I was trickled truthed. Every 4 years something would cause the subject of OM to come up, and not by me. Trickled truthed some more every time.

For 30 years there is been a wall between us because of her trickle truthing. Me being left with so many questions that I never got to ask has kept this wall in place.

WW won't allow any mention of back then.

So you will never rest till your questions are answered.

Time has shown me that things that you experienced/seen/heard will not haunt you forever.

They will be forgotten with time.

I will add that better to stay on one thread makes following the story easier.

You have the truth. You have kids needing you to fight through this.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You are in the anger of the moment but realize that affairs are about lust and sex. And sex is physical pleasure..If she is cheating, why would she be doing that she does not/won't like ? Actually doing that would be much worse...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

working_together said:


> Wow, are you kidding??? that's big time punishment, why not work on the issues, he needs help getting over the images.


IF you read his other thread you'll see that she cheated 15 yrs ago and since then has refuse except when pressured to let him give her oral. He's asked and she's basically refused to let him go there.

She's taken it off the table, and now he's come to find out the POSOM gave her the 7th level O with it. 

He's tried to be nice, my suggestion was for him to change tactics since nice wasn't working for him.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

If your wife was a virgin when you met then I can understand that the mental movies are horrible but if she wasn't......I don't see the point in obsessing over that encounter. You might as well obsesses over every guy she's been with if you want to go down that route.


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## shazam (Nov 7, 2011)

shecheatedVA said:


> If you saw my earlier post, I recently found out my wife (then my girlfriend) cheated on me. This was 15 years ago in college but she confessed a few months ago. I also indicated that I wanted the details. Some of you warned me but I had to know so I could minimize the mental movies playing out.
> 
> Unfortunately some of the information is worst than I had imagined and some other things aren't so bad. As I mentioned earlier, she confessed to having sex (actual intercourse 2x) and attempted once more but he couldn't get it up.
> 
> ...


I mean if she had sex with other guys before you, then this probably happened with them too. I bet a lot of married couples have experienced orgasms before meeting their spouses.


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## shattered32 (Nov 19, 2012)

shecheatedVA said:


> I also indicated that I wanted the details.
> 
> I can't get that image out of my head.
> 
> I guess you better be careful of what you ask and be ready to handle it. How do you go about getting this out of your head. How will I ever be able to go down on her and not think about this!!!?


D-Day for me has barely been a week so far , and after the initial screaming and shouting died down , the first thing i wanted to know were the details as well , she resisted for a long time - said i knew what happened and why cannot i leave it that , it might not do me any good to learn specifics but my own curiosity and the support here that i was not being unreasonable and i had a right to know in got all the details out of her.

For me personally , my mind movies were worse , now that i know atleast i know - i dont need to imagine beyond that which has helped me on some levels to deal with it, yes there is still a movie but its 1 script only.

But having said that , the movie plays often enough , i try and keep it at the back and not think about it but its just too soon i think to even expect that i will be able to do that - there are too many triggers - yesterday , when my wife got home and changed and took off her shirt - i could not help but start playing the movie.

I have not asked her some of the question like you did - bigger etc , i dont expect a truthful answer on that , so even if i get one it would mean nothing , hence why bother.

The other part that tends to help as well is after she told me everything a few days later i came to the conclusion that he didn't pay her any attention , it was open up let me in ... thanks and goodbye. My wife might not realize this - she wanted love possibly , she got nothing , he got sex.......... and while many would say , rightly so , that i might be a bit biased in making this opinion (since it helps me in my head) , i am fairly sure its not.

best of luck!


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I got truthful answers - that I can handle.

It's the details I didn't ask for which still kill me.

One or 2 mind movies just won't stop.

One or 2 further reasons why our R has failed.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Complexity said:


> If your wife was a virgin when you met then I can understand that the mental movies are horrible but if she wasn't......I don't see the point in obsessing over that encounter. You might as well obsesses over every guy she's been with if you want to go down that route.


Yeah but all the guys in the past are supposed to not be as important as her actual guy [husband]. Everyone before her husband usually means they were less. 

The OM is different. She humiliated/ignored/lied to her husband during the affair. and she did it ONLY because of the OM. 
So he [OM] must have had a different impact on her, unlike the rest of the guys [including her husband]. 

I guess the affair partner will be unforgettable, no matter how many other partners the WS had before the BS.


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## shattered32 (Nov 19, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> Yeah but all the guys in the past are supposed to not be as important as her actual guy [husband]. Everyone before her husband usually means they were less.


I have to agree strongly with you on this - both me and my wife had partners before we started seeing each other and got married but - once we were together , that did not matter.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

Shecheated,

I've followed your other thread. There are some details that are given that make me feel she is being honest. 

First, the OM was out of shape badly and drank too much. He was pretty good at oral (a 7 isn't that great) if a guy at that age is great at oral chance are he's compensating for a problem in his pants. 

Second, you know for a fact she broke it off with him so she was not that into it. You heard him pursuing her on the phone I think.

Third, the guilt has affected her tremendously. Noted numerous times in your other thread. This is a good sign she's telling the truth. She can't handle more stress of lies.
If the sex was even remotely good she would have fond memories not mental issues with sex. To her it seems almost like she suffered some kind of sexual trauma and isn't over it yet. Meaning over it in a bad way not a good way.


My vote is to use this as a platform to a better relationship via better sex. I feel she's not hiding anything of value and it actually sounds like pretty awkward and crappy sex they had.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

You need to work through these oral sex issues together and it's a very difficult situation.

Even before the cheating was exposed, she refused to let him give her oral because she felt "too guilty". this is obviously a problem in the marriage (whether cheating was ever exposed or not). Now that the reason for this refusal is out in the open, there is now an opportunity to become much more intimate than ever before.

However, both the OP and his wife are in a difficult situation because:

1. He will understandably NEED to give his wife a rocking 0rgasm. Without achieving this result he will feel inadequate to the OM. He will resent her if she does not c*m from oral with him as she did with the OM. He will not be able to understand why she can't come with him and will become angry and hurt both at himself and at her. He will be preoccupied with the mind movies of her and the other guy. There will be a strong presence of the OM and the cheating during this act.

2. Understanding the need to c*m, she will put huge pressure on herself to c*m. She will not c*m if she can't relax and if she feels pressure. She has the option of 'faking it' but this is a bad option because there needs to be complete trust and more lies will make her feel more guilty. And most importantly, more lying and faking it will impede true intimacy.

This is a disaster waiting to happen. I suggest that you consider the following and obviously it's not for everyone but please hear me out and consider this.

1. you must give her oral. you cannot leave this out of the relationship because of the OM any longer. He still has power over your relationship after 15 years and this must end.

2. accept that thoughts of the OM, the oral cheating experience and her orgasm cannot be removed when you have oral with her. this is the 'elephant in the room'.

3. agree and mutually understand that it will be hard for her to have an orgasm the first time like this. Remove all pressure. The Objective of this oral 'exercise' is not to have her c*m but for him to put his mouth on her and explore this activity that was previously 'forbidden'. C*mming will come eventually.

4. instead of trying to ignore and suppress the elephant in the room (thoughts of the cheating and the orgasm), hit it head on. Hold hands and boldly return back to that dark place TOGETHER. Have her walk you through exactly what he did to her and you do it yourself. It's been 15 years but she remembers. Go slow and let her guide you to do exactly what she remembers the OM doing to her. Recreate it in as much detail as you can. You both might find that this helps you work through it.

Now, some may say that this will put more pressure on both of them to have her c*m because they are doing the same thing so why can't he make her c*m when this other guy did. I disagree that this will make more pressure. They will have this pressure anyway so why not just put it out there in the open and hit it head on.

The oral sex sessions should continue until there is comfort with it and they've worked past the problem. You can recreate the cheating oral again through your series of oral sessions if you wish or make it a one time thing.

Good luck.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

dogman said:


> Shecheated,
> 
> I've followed your other thread. There are some details that are given that make me feel she is being honest.
> 
> ...


So, if the OM wasn't out of shape, didn't drink too much and if she was into him the affair would have been going on for a very long time..
In this case we'll have to think the OM for having flaws.., otherwise she wouldn't have left him. If it was for her she would still be cheating on her husband.

This means her H was a back up plan at the time. She didn't stop the affair because she thought it was wrong or because she loved her H too much. She stopped it because it wasn't like she expected. 

This hurts I think.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> So, if the OM wasn't out of shape, didn't drink too much and if she was into him the affair would have been going on for a very long time..
> In this case we'll have to think the OM for having flaws.., otherwise she wouldn't have left him. If it was for her she would still be cheating on her husband.
> 
> This means her H was a back up plan at the time. She didn't stop the affair because she thought it was wrong or because she loved her H too much. She stopped it because it wasn't like she expected.
> ...


Yes you make my point. He was not great or else she may have continued.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> So, if the OM wasn't out of shape, didn't drink too much and if she was into him the affair would have been going on for a very long time..
> In this case we'll have to think the OM for having flaws.., otherwise she wouldn't have left him. If it was for her she would still be cheating on her husband.
> 
> This means her H was a back up plan at the time. She didn't stop the affair because she thought it was wrong or because she loved her H too much. She stopped it because it wasn't like she expected.
> ...



You see the thing bothering the OP is insecurity. My point is that he has nothing to be insecure about the OM was nothing compared to him. Her decision proves that. But the guilt and the mental problems she's had since the affair prove it was subpar.

It's not that he was a back up plan, because she broke it off with the OM. If the OM broke it off I would say that the OP was a backup plan, but that's not the case.


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## shecheatedVA (Nov 11, 2012)

She does feel extreme amounts of guilt. Says it was so out of character for her and is one and only single regret in her entire life. Said that experience made her feel that she didn't deserve to feel pleasure. I think this did mess up quite bad which is why she finally confessed to me. It was eating her up inside and she said that she would never be able to move forward and grow as a person while harboring this secret. 

I thought the same thing about that guy having issues. I mean when I was in my 20's, we hardly ever went down on women. We got blowjobs but it was pretty rare to make it a normal occurrence to give oral to women. This is all the OM wanted to do. He talked about how he loved it SO much and rather look at vaginas than have sex with them. Huh? As I mentioned, we didn't do it that much and evidently he was pretty skilled because she admitted that she remember the orgasm. When she told me that, it literally made me feel ill. It must have been real good for her to remember that from 15 years ago! She said it was different, he mentioned how he loved it and the fact we never did it. 

She has let me go down (before the confession) on more than one occasion but there was always sone resistance or she didn't want me to keep doing it. I guess the guilt ate her up (no pun intended) when I went to give her oral. We have talked a lot and I mentioned that she deserved more and shouldn't let the experience with that a$$hole ruin that. That I loved hear and she deserved all the pleasures and deserved to feel them without any guilt. 

To be honest, since she confessed, we've had a rollercoaster of emotions but the sex has gotten awesome! I mean 2-3 times a day for days on end. Oddly enough she was never able to O vaginally and always required some sort of manual stimulation. In the past few months (after the confession), she's been able to cum during penetrative sex. I tell you it's been quite awesome for her and me. From what I read only 30% of women can achieve it vaginally so it was quite a surprise. She has mentioned that telling me about the affair has lifted a huge burden from her. She feels really bad putting so much hurt on me but she feels much lighter. At first, when she came vaginally, I thought hey could it be another man but I'm pretty sure she's been faithful for our entire marriage. I asked her about it and she said that she would never, ever, ever do that to me or anyone else. She said the experience with the OM messed her up bad and would never jeopardize her character again. To her credit, she has been nothing but caring, loving and attentive to all of my needs (in almost a weird servant kind of way) during our marriage. I just thought it was cause she loved me but it makes sense. She just did everything and anything for me. I realize this isn't good and we talked about that and already begun to make changes. 

Making her orgasm was never a problem. I did it multiple times using my hand mainly and she doing it to herself while I penetrated her. I recall making her O by going down as well but she was resistant to letting me do that for long in most cases. 

I don't think I was the backup plan. She never intended on having a relationship with the man (according to her). She loved to hear the kind words and complements he always feed her. He listened to her problems and built her up. She wanted to break up with me. She said the affair, subconsciously was a way for her to be able to walk away. She was too much of a coward to do it to my face but somewhere during the physical acts realized how much I meant to her and how much she loved me. From that experience she realized how selfish she was and that she could never walk away from the love we had shared. I guess that's why she partially has an issue with "deserving" good things. Hearing that made me really sad for her. I told her she deserved everything and not only that but the best. I know I wasn't there for her and totally see from an emotional standpoint. She according to her own words was broken and this guy was there to make her feel confident that she was beautiful, her problems were real, and that she deserved better.

Last night I went down on her and gave her a pretty good orgasm orally. It felt really odd because while I was doing it I was thinking about her doing that with the OM. At certain points I was just going to stop but kept on plowing. She was moaning loudly and I could tell she was enjoying it. She did orgasm good. Even after that my immediate thought was - was it as good or better than with the OM. I mean from how she was moving and sounding, it seemed to be good. In my head, I'm envisioning the experience with the OM as her thrashing all over the bed, clutching the sheets, completely soaked, screaming and moaning loudly and finally bursting so hard her whole body is shaking and quivering after the release. I know this is the porno version but I just can't gauge how good it was compared to him. Part of me wants to ask her but then again after the answers I've gotten, am really afraid to learn that she hasn't had a oral orgasm that hard since him. 

She said the sex itself (intercourse) was awkward and forgetful. He just got on top missionary style and pounded until he came. She thought he had an issue keeping it hard and had to go fast and hard and really had to concentrate without loosing his erection before orgasm. That at least makes me feel good. I've never had a problem with that thankfully. I have no doubt that he gave good oral if he had to compensate because he was unable to keep it up. The thing that bothers me is what she said. The fact that she still remembers the orgasm after so many years! I guess that and the fact it was during an affair has been etched into her permanent memory. Another thought that crosses my mind is when I'm down there, is there any way she can't help but recall him doing that to her.

I just need to return to Alpha. Not care what he did with/to her. Be confident in my ability and the fact that I know I can deliver. Thoughts do nothing but hurt me and myself only. Only hard part is it's easier said than done.


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## Duramax (Nov 17, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> The OM is different. She humiliated/ignored/lied to her husband during the affair. and she did it ONLY because of the OM.
> So he [OM] must have had a different impact on her, unlike the rest of the guys [including her husband].
> 
> I guess the affair partner will be unforgettable, no matter how many other partners the WS had before the BS.


That has got to be the silliest thing ive ever heard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Duramax said:


> That has got to be the silliest thing ive ever heard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Coming from a troll like you, I take it as a compliment.



shecheatedVA said:


> Last night I went down on her and gave her a pretty good orgasm orally. It felt really odd because while I was doing it I was thinking about her doing that with the OM


OP, you need to get better at it if you want to make it unforgettable for her and replace the thought of OM.
Once you take in charge of the situation then you won't have insecurities while going down on her. You need to be the best she ever had so that it won't feel awkward of either of you.

That is ..if you think she deserves it!


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

ShecheatedVA said,
I have no doubt that he gave good oral if he had to compensate because he was unable to keep it up. The thing that bothers me is what she said. The fact that she still remembers the orgasm after so many years! I guess that and the fact it was during an affair has been etched into her permanent memory.
Unquote

In my world they is very rarely bad oral sex, it's a contradiction. Haha!

But seriously the orgasm she had is one of the things that make her feel guilty so badly. Therefore its hard to forget.

She is also going to be uptight with you for a while because of guilt and your reaction so far through this ordeal. Imagine how bad youd feel about yourself after having to relive that crappy decision and repeat details of the thing that you regret most. Its tough. Give it time, when she relaxes you'll blow away the 7 out of 10 score. 

Enjoy the jacked up sex and build a better relationship from this. It sounds like she's a great wife and that your pretty fortunate to have her. Just get this past stuff into the right perspective.

I apologize for my earlier comment about porn, I was just trying to get you to stop viewing the affair through the lense of a porn movie. That'll kill you, and worse yet it's not so.
Always stop and give yourself a reality check before running down the wrong road.


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## Duramax (Nov 17, 2012)

take it anyway you want it Lovelygirl. Its still silly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

dogman said:


> The fact that she still remembers the orgasm after so many years!


Actually there's nothing surprising about it.

- She had it with another man while married;
- It was oral sex [something she didn't use to do all that much back in the day (according to the OP)];
- She kind of liked it [rating it 7 is more than the half so it leans on the better part].


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

OP, it must have been very hurtful to find out that your, then, GF cheated on you all those years ago, but I'm seriously wondering how a painful post mortem regarding details can resolve matters.

IMO, you have to either find a way to forgive her for what she's admitted to doing before you were married (possibly with the help of MC), or decide whether or not you want to continue with the marriage.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> Actually there's nothing surprising about it.
> 
> - She had it with another man while married;
> - It was oral sex [something she didn't use to do all that much back in the day (according to the OP)];
> - She kind of liked it [rating it 7 is more than the half so it leans on the better part].





> Original Post:-
> I recently found out my wife (then my girlfriend) cheated on me. This was 15 years ago in college but she confessed a few months ago.


I thought the OP said it was before they were married?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I thought the OP said it was before they were married?


You are correct, they were not married, nor were they engaged.

It would seem to me that by definition, a WS is going to recall an AP whom they hid from their spouse. Not because they were so terrific, but because they are fearful of their deceit being discovered. Again, as far as anyone can tell, we are not dealing with an ongoing affair nor are we dealing with continued communications or contact.

I still see no evidence in this case that the OP's wife was holding some torch for a man who couldn't get it up. There are many ways the script doesn't fit this situation. I think the script is useful in persuading a poster to investigate, verify, and learn the truth. But I don't think the script is so ironclad that it should be taken as gospel and made to fit situations where it doesn't. Perhaps we've become so accustomed to affairs that are supposedly ended but in fact are hidden and ongoing that we cannot recognize when we're presented with something else?

I am perfectly content to eat my words if proven wrong--I am not the least bit embarrassed if it turns out that OP's wife never ended contact or has had another affair since the incident at hand. But so far I have not seen anything that persuades me this is the case, and attempts to shoehorn the situation into the script only makes me more certain of that, not less so.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Yeah my bad. For a moment I forgot they were not married. Still I'll say she had it with another man while already in a relationship with the OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shattered32 (Nov 19, 2012)

Thats one question i have not asked and dont plan to - did she , if so how many etc , rather not know.



dogman said:


> The fact that she still remembers the orgasm after so many years! I guess that and the fact it was during an affair has been etched into her permanent memory.
> Unquote
> 
> .


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

7 is a 'safe' answer. She doesn't want to lie and say she didn't like it but she doesn't want to say '10' either. I'm not saying that it was a 10 or not but rather that trying to determine all kinds of things from her stated 'rating' of the act is a bit silly. She was eaten out and she enjoyed it. She's only human. She shouldn't have been doing it in the first place but she can't really be faulted for enjoying it.

If a guy had to own up to getting a BJ while in a relationship with someone else, is he going to tell his partner that it was 'a 10'. No, i'm sure he would not. This seems like rubbing salt in the wound. Some guys might say that they didn't like it but that is dishonest and doesn't sound believable. And your partner might badger you more about not admitting that you liked something that is difficult not to like. But you're not going to say a 10 either. So when forced to give a rating you would likely say "I don't know...like a 7, I guess". What is the meaning of rating a sex act? Most people can evaluate whether they liked it or not, if it was average or fantastic, etc. But the precise number is not so important and i don't think we should see all kinds of things into this.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

couple said:


> 7 is a 'safe' answer. She doesn't want to lie and say she didn't like it but she doesn't want to say '10' either. I'm not saying that it was a 10 or not but rather that trying to determine all kinds of things from her stated 'rating' of the act is a bit silly. She was eaten out and she enjoyed it. She's only human. She shouldn't have been doing it in the first place but she can't really be faulted for enjoying it.
> 
> If a guy had to own up to getting a BJ while in a relationship with someone else, is he going to tell his partner that it was 'a 10'. No, i'm sure he would not. This seems like rubbing salt in the wound. Some guys might say that they didn't like it but that is dishonest and doesn't sound believable. And your partner might badger you more about not admitting that you liked something that is difficult not to like. But you're not going to say a 10 either. So when forced to give a rating you would likely say "I don't know...like a 7, I guess". What is the meaning of rating a sex act? Most people can evaluate whether they liked it or not, if it was average or fantastic, etc. But the precise number is not so important and i don't think we should see all kinds of things into this.


No, I would say it sucked. Lol


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> Yeah my bad. For a moment I forgot they were not married. Still I'll say she had it with another man while already in a relationship with the OP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, and he should have been given that information prior to marriage so that he could decide whether or not he still wanted to go through with it. Dealing with it 15 years down the line when that option is no longer available to him - not so good.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I still see no evidence in this case that the OP's wife was holding some torch for a man ...................... if it turns out that OP's wife never ended contact or has had another affair since the incident at hand.



No one has said the WW has held a torch for the OM.

No one says the WW has not maintained NC with the OM all these years.

What nonsense are you talking about?



The first problem is that the WW lied about this affair for 15 years. This is old history to the WW. She has had 15 years to process this and leave it behind in her past.

This WW has healed from her affair and moved on. Thing is this WW healed alone. She left the knife still sticking into her BH's back for 15 years.

The BH could never see this knife sticking him in the back. He would tell his WW that somethings wrong and for her take a look for 15 years. For 15 years his WW would say you are imagining things. There is nothing there.

Till the WW admitted to the truth. She then pulled out the knife that she stuck into his back. Then complains why are you bleeding all over the place now? You got knifed in the back 15 years ago.

No BH can heal without the full truth.

The second problem is that the BH dday is now. Upon finding out the truth now has made this 15 year old affair brand new news.

His WW and this BH himself, both will have to give 2 to 5 years for the BH and their marriage to heal from this current dday.

Just because a WW has been the perfect wife for 15 years does not lessen the BH's pain or speed up the years needed for the BH to heal.

All being a perfect wife for 15 years is that this BH should see her post affair behavoir as part of his decision making to recover or divorce with his WW.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

theroad said:


> No one has said the WW has held a torch for the OM.
> 
> No one says the WW has not maintained NC with the OM all these years.
> 
> ...



I'm rather confused by your post.

The quote you've used _in no way implies that he isn't in pain_. It's nothing short of bizarre, that you took that idea out of what I said in the words you quoted.

But, I suspect, you are not familiar with me or my views. Here, I'll help you out--from his OTHER thread:




iheartlife said:


> Lying for a long time about cheating is extremely damaging to trust in a relationship. That is a truism. Trickle-truth will take the tiny bit of trust that is left and snuff it out of existence. She is doing what thousands of other cheaters have done before, but that's not because she's an evil b*tch. It's because like all other cheaters, she thinks minimizing is a terrific idea. For someone who wants to reconcile, it's stupid as hell. But there's a big difference between calculating evil (seen with _cake-eaters_ wanting to keep a current affair) and stupid.
> 
> And as I've said several times, OP has to figure out what he can live with, and he has to make absolutely certain he has the truth (not the full truth so he can make better mind movies--the truth about the scope of the affair and whether she's been faithful since then). And OP has to determine whether she's a liar in general and whether she can be trusted in general. But if the truth is, she was selfish 20 years ago and stupid ever since, but not unfaithful, I know I would not divorce such a person who had given me many years of happiness.





iheartlife said:


> I'm certain that the pain of finding out about a past affair is not diminished by the passage of time. If you read through the threads, the anguish many times is far worse. That is because the cheater kept the secret so well for so long. So while the affair might have happened many years ago, the betrayal and the lying cuts very, very deep. It is experienced by the OP as immediate and recent. It certainly makes most people question their entire relationship. I completely agree with all of that.
> 
> Also, there is no such thing as "good" cheating or "better" cheating. People often compare various things, like emotional vs. physical, oral vs. vaginal, long term vs. short, ONS vs. multiple times, porn sex vs. not so great sex, etc. I really think there is no point to those comparisons unless physical contact is an absolute deal-breaker as it is for some. You can see this also by reading threads, where people have opposite factual situations and long for some other version of events. People think they would be happier if this or that had happened; I doubt that would be the case. What people really want is a loyal spouse who never cheated or lied.
> 
> ...


But I forgive you, his other thread is 25 pages long.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I'm rather confused by your post.
> 
> The quote you've used _in no way implies that he isn't in pain_. It's nothing short of bizarre, that you took that idea out of what I said in the words you quoted.
> 
> ...


There is nothing to forgive. I did not state that you said the BH was without pain.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

shecheatedVA-how are you doing? Hope you have been having a better time of it since you haven't been posting lately. Let us know how you're doing, if you've met again with a counselor, and how that went.

--------------------------



theroad said:


> There is nothing to forgive. I did not state that you said the BH was without pain.


Oh, okay. You had the temerity to call what I posted "nonsense." You know why you called it nonsense, and argued your points with a series of non sequiturs (which, by the way, have been hashed out for many pages elsewhere)?

Because you didn't bother to read his other thread.

I was more than kind to you in my response by pointing out that the other thread exists, and I was kind enough to show you that I largely agree with your original post. 

Anyone else who's followed OP's story understands what my point was, and why I said what I did. I notice no one else is jumping in here to support your point--because you've already conceded that what I said was true--that no one is saying she's carrying a torch for him, and no one is saying there's continued contact. Thank you very much for proving my point for me! I appreciate someone else taking my side. OP, take note, I'm not the only one who believes this to be the case.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

theroad said:


> No one has said the WW has held a torch for the OM.
> 
> No one says the WW has not maintained NC with the OM all these years.
> 
> ...



We must bear in mind, too, that the OP's wife has _never been a WW _and, as far as we know, hasn't broken her marriage vows to him...

Having said that, the OP's wife _should _have told him that she'd cheated on him _before_ they got married.

I understand the OP's pain, and I hope that he manages to heal from all this.


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## shecheatedVA (Nov 11, 2012)

Oh man it's been *REALLY, REALLY* tough the last few days. I was off during the whole week of Thanksgiving. That gave us some time to spend together which was good and bad. It seems after the good always comes the bad. I can't stop thinking about how she could do that to me. How could my sweet, perfect, innocent angel do such a deceptive, hurtful and cunning act!!? 

My image of her has been shattered and I'm not sure if it'll be back or the same. I had her pegged as the last person (similar to many of you) that could do such a thing. Yeah we had our problems but loved each other immensely. It seems that when I needed her the most, she decided to make a run of it since this dude told her had a crush on her. 

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. Part of me wants a divorce. I just can't deal with the pain or the thought of seeing her with that man every time that I look at her face. 

My life has been a complete hell. I can't concentrate at work and am consumed in my thoughts. I take many breaks and just out to my car and end up crying (yeah I sound like a pu$$y but it's just how I feel). 

I feel like my life has been a lie. Everything that I did and worked towards was only a facade. The woman I cherished and loved was only a figment of my imagination.

Things will never be the same and at times it's hard to make it through another day.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback and comments. I don't know what normal is anymore and really rely on your input to see facts and opinions that I might have never considered!


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

OP, I think you need to get this into perspective...

What your W did to you when you were dating was wrong - there's no two ways about that. But do you really want to throw away 15 happy years because of it? I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but with counseling perhaps you and your W can move beyond this.

Please stop torturing yourself by thinking about the details of what happened 15 years ago. It isn't going to change anything, except make you depressed.

I would certainly consider MC to get beyond this.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

shecheatedVA--are you seeing an individual counselor? If so, when was your last appointment?

You have struggled with mental issues in your past. You are in deep right now. When I was where you are, I was seeing a therapist once a week, and I was highly tempted to see them twice a week. I WOULD have seen them 2x a week if I'd been in the same emotional state you are still feeling over this.

Surely counseling got you through your problems before??? Why aren't you turning to individual counseling now? While your feelings are 100% understandable, it is extremely difficult to make rational decisions when you're crying all the time. Cry all you need to, BUT GO SEE AN INDIVIDUAL COUNSELOR.


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Now, this is exactly why I wanted no details of my wife's affair, thank you very much.


Sometimes your mind is worse than reality though, it is a risk each of us has to decide about.


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

ShecheatedVA, the other thing to know about memories is that over time we morph them. Yes she had an affair, yes it hurt you, but the reality of what it really was for her at that time is probably not exactly what she told you. This is just how the brain works. Remember some really big building or tower from when you were a kid, or a meal at a restuarant you haven't been to in years but you loved it so much. Go back the building isn't as big and the meal isn't as good. You brain has intensified the emotions and emotional response. 

You need to know that if you are trying to "compete" with the OM, you are not competing with him at all. You are competing with her 15 year distorted memory of him and that experience.


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## shecheatedVA (Nov 11, 2012)

I am in counseling...individual and couples. I never got counseling for any of my childhood issues. In my family, it was just something that happened (trauma) took it as fate and pretended like it didn't occur. As a young child, I had to internalize all the anguish and pain which ultimately came out during my college years and exactly the time she decided to go off and do what she did. You're right, I have to up my sessions with the counselor. It's been about 2 weeks since I've gone.

The thing about memories is like you said never represent the truth. I would actually argue the opposite. That they were actually much more intense and fuller when they occurred. The years of guilt and shame have probably dimmed the intensity but I'm sure it was 4x as much as she remembers now. 

You guys are right. There's no good that come from me dwelling about what happened. I just feel like a complete chump. The other day at the office I was wondering exactly where I was sitting (15 years ago) at work when she was laying in his beds and taking off her clothes. I thought about what they did and it had me feeling so sick I had to step outside to get some air. I know all these thoughts are so self deprecating but I can't stop my brain from thinking about them.

I haven't had any vivid dreams for quite a while but since I was told this, I've had multiple that I can recall and each one has her doing something that is deceitful and untrustworthy. 

Sometimes I think this is a sign. A sign that I need to move on. I'm coming to a point in my life where if I'm going to jump ship, I need to do it soon. I'm still young enough but old enough to make something of the second half of my life. 

The pain doesn't seem to diminish with the passage of time. I just focus in on different parts of the affair, her deceit and how I was played out so badly. 

I know had she told me about it when it occurred, I would of definitely walked. She said she didn't cause her love was true to me and she realized how insignificant it was. I was like insignificant for you but life altering for me. 

I question everything about my life. Was this love even true? How have I married? Have I made the biggest mistake of my life? What am I going to do? 

It's so bad it makes my brain hurt and my mind feels like it's melting. 

I stopped smoking 10 years ago and am back up to a pack a day. Whenever I get the thought, I have to go out and light up again. 

I can't believe this is happening. What makes it worse it that there is no one (other than my counselor) that I can talk about this with except for you good folks. It's so rough but still hoping it gets better with time.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Totally normal, unless I am a freak too, and gets better with time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

shecheatedVA said:


> The thing about memories is like you said never represent the truth. I would actually argue the opposite. That they were actually much more intense and fuller when they occurred. The years of guilt and shame have probably dimmed the intensity but I'm sure it was 4x as much as she remembers now.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> The brain morphs memories. Yes it allows us to take horrible things and soften them over time, but it also allows us to take positive experiences and intensify them. Generally we modify our memories to benefit us making the good better and the bad less intense.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Yes, totally normal. In fact (not to depress you further) I am 9 months out from DD#2, and more than 4.5 years out from DD#1, and just the other day as I was looking at some photos, I was thinking wow, he was having an affair when that picture was taken.

The dwelling and ruminating, the heightened state of arousal and high adrenaline ("fight or flight"), the crying, these are all symptoms of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or Syndrome). Almost everyone feels this way after this sort of discovery. It's a huge shock to the system. The world feels like it's rocking, down must be up and up down. The worst for me was first thing in the morning, when I would wake up, and there would be a few seconds where I would have "forgotten" and then bam, it would come rushing back.

In the beginning your sensation is one of deep shock and denial. Your brain is working overtime trying to figure out how to get out of this nightmare. Your brain is _sure_ it _must_ be a nightmare and you will wake up and this horror will not have happened.

But as the numbness wears off, the pain of the reality sets in. You have sensations of HUGE anger, rage, fury, disgust. You have fantasies of revenge. Vivid, ugly, NC-rated fantasies. If someone could see inside your mind right then, they'd put you in jail or commit you to the asylum. 

This alternates with depression. It can be mild or extremely deep. You cry, maybe for hours. You wake up in the middle of the night to cry. You didn't know you could cry like that.

In sum, your emotions are all over the place. They are in control and they send you shooting in various directions. You can't concentrate at work. You can't drive very well (I have never felt so much like I'd drive off the road as on DD#2, my hand were shaking so badly).

Like I said--you need to be in IC and you need to ramp it up 2x a week. I will tell you: I was clinically depressed myself for more than 2 years when I was 20-22. So you and I, we are susceptible to depression. Despite the horrors that I've gone through the last few years, I have never permitted myself to go back to those black days in my 20's. No, I watch myself carefully: just 2 weeks of feeling super low is enough to trigger a deeper clinical depression. I never let myself get to that state.

When I found out about my H's infidelity, I booked my counselor within days. When I found out he was still cheating 3 years later, same thing. I strongly considered going more often both times. Maybe I should have gone 2x a week right at first. I know you need it. If your counselor can't make the time, find a new one. You really need it.


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