# Whats the big deal with an EA? (EA vs PA Question)



## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

Trying to figure out the whole EA issue? I read about a lot of people on hear that were "DEVASTATED" by their spouses EA. Which to me seems a bit melodramatic and/or over the top. I understand a PA, which of course means that your spouse was shagged by somebody else; this I can relate to as being devastating as they were intimate together, their was an exchange of fluids etc..

It may just be my understanding of the term EA, but it seems as though it encompasses texting, sexting, talking on the phone, talking about their relationship, being buddy buddy etc.. but not physical.. all behaviors which are uncool, and I don't condone. However, none of which I see as "Devastating or heart wrenching" more or less along the lines of just acting stupid. Left unchecked this behavior could certainly sow the seeds for something more insidious but you can't convict before a crime (Minority Report).. and since nothing "physical has happened" it is not the end of the world so to speak..

If someone could clarify or give their perspective it would be much appreciated...

--->Quick Edit<--

Not trying to minimize how others felt as we are all different, just trying to a better definition of EA...


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

how strange, I feel the opposite in some respects

had my wife expressed "I love you"' to the OM and such I would have not taken her back


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Bandit said:


> Trying to figure out the whole EA issue? I read about a lot of people on hear that were "DEVASTATED" by their spouses EA. Which to me seems a bit melodramatic and/or over the top. I understand a PA, which of course means that your spouse was shagged by somebody else; this I can relate to as being devastating as they were intimate together, their was an exchange of fluids etc..
> 
> It may just be my understanding of the term EA, but it seems as though it encompasses texting, sexting, talking on the phone, talking about their relationship, being buddy buddy etc.. but not physical.. all behaviors which are uncool, and I don't condone. However, none of which I see as "Devastating or heart wrenching" more or less along the lines of just acting stupid. Left unchecked this behavior could certainly sow the seeds for something more insidious but you can't convict before a crime (Minority Report).. and since nothing "physical has happened" it is not the end of the world so to speak..
> 
> If someone could clarify or give their perspective it would be much appreciated...


You might get slammed pretty good here Bandit. I'll try to keep it calm. First off, you have no control over how you feel when you discover your spouse is giving her attention to another. None. Zip. You can't say, "hmm, they didn't have sex, so maybe I should stop shaking and get my appetite back".

If your spouse is lying to you, so they can talk to their new love interest....or if they cut you off emotionally because it's elsewhere....or they skip out of the house, just to call them....or you read in an email how much they wish they could be with this other person and not you....or they text each other sexual longings....or....or.....

do I really need to keep going?


----------



## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

To me, it is the WS in an E/A has given thier mind to someone, its easy to just have sex, but to forge a deep emotional bond(E/A)sharing thoughts,secrets, hopes,dreams building one another up....
just like sex, that is for the spouse and the spouse alone.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

My husband told someome else she was the love of his life, his soulmate, best friend in the whole world, that he 'yearned' for her, only one who understood him, a stunningly beautiful woman. Maybe he said the best friend thing to me, but he never said any of the others.

When I realized a little bit of research taught me all kinds of things about her he didn't know, it took away a lot of the sting. That and her telling me personally, 'he was never my soulmate and I never used that word.'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

You know my story Bandit.I could'nt get over a PA.If the EA was only text or phone calls,then I almost could chaulk it up to a stipid mistake but if they hug,peck on the lips,meet in person(no physical stuff) and they exchange I love yous,then yeah it fvucking wrenching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BettyBoop (Apr 2, 2012)

So you are ok if your spouse gave her heart away to another guy as long as her body was not touched?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

My H had an EA over 2.5 years ago. Last summer had a one night drunk party and kissed/made out with a girl. I am just now having anxiety and fear over the EA. I hate the kiss, don't get me wrong, but I'm having issues with him being all excited to hear from "her" and worry more about her feelings than mine on a daily basis.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, have your wife or gf start hanging out with, confiding in, hiding, sneaking around with another dude. no sex though. Just friendship and close connection.

A connection she should have with you, but now just wants/thinks about the other guy.

Pretty devastating.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

I feel that if it wasn't for the EA, the fog would not be so hard to come out of.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

An EA is serious business. It's your heart/feelings getting involved. 

A lot of folks will say that an EA is way worse than a PA.

I firmly believe if an EA goes PA--that is the absolute WORST THING.


----------



## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> An EA is serious business. It's your heart/feelings getting involved.
> 
> A lot of folks will say that an EA is way worse than a PA.
> 
> I firmly believe if an EA goes PA--that is the absolute WORST THING.


I'm kinda with you, if it goes PA then that's bad, but at the EA point things are probably still salvageable, but once it goes PA.. well there is no fixing that as they are no longer yours..


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

That's cause the EA cements it...making it that much worse. 

I mean, anything is salvageable but once someone's emotional needs (especially a woman's) start getting met by someone else---eh, disaster is looming ahead.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I think for me the EA was bad enough that H had however I know if there was a physical component that would have taken it over the top for me...I don't know if I could have gotten over that. Not that the EA part of it is easy I don't know something about the physical aspect would have, in my situation only, made it so much worse.

H's EA was about 3 months long..with about 2 months of that being a long distance EA.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I think it's a personal issue. If you don't care if your wife told another man she loved him, as long as she didn't touch his penis, then good for you. That's one less thing you need to worry about in life.

I think most people, including me, would be devastated if my wife were telling another man that he was her soul mate, etc. And, I would be devastated if my wife were having sex with another man, regardless of how she really felt about him.

I think EA is what most people term feeling love for another, without sex. Some of the behaviors you mentioned meet that, such as sexting. And some don't, like phone calls and being buddy-buddy. Not all inappropriate behavior, like complaining about your marriage to an opposite-sex person, qualifies as an EA.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I dont think Bandit realizes the amount of damage an EA causes in a marriage, it is just as bad as the damage a PA causes


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Bandit said:


> but at the EA point things are probably still salvageable


nope I see quite a bit of EA's that aren't salvaged


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

too add, this cavalier attitude about EA's is so prevalent in society that many people in an EA don't even think they are cheating


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

highwood said:


> I think for me the EA was bad enough that H had however I know if there was a physical component that would have taken it over the top for me...I don't know if I could have gotten over that. Not that the EA part of it is easy I don't know something about the physical aspect would have, in my situation only, made it so much worse.


:iagree::iagree:

And most will say that EAs usually eventually get to PAs. So "catching" an EA is catching a would-be PA in the making.

I've struggled with this. My W thinks I should be giving her credit she withheld and didn't go PA. If she had, we'd be done. But the fact she wanted to is really, f*cking hard to take, dude. 

I'm trying hard not to be really pissed at your question.


----------



## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

Most of the time, a PA is really (PA + EA) and if comparing (PA + EA) to just EA. Obviously EA is better.

If question was PA (a one night stand with a stranger) vs EA (maybe being in touch with someone for years with nothing physical), I would choose PA as the lesser of two evils especially if I didn't marry a virgin.

I feel giving your heart and soul to someone is more intimate that giving your body.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

If my H had slept w someone once and never seen them again it would be better than spending everyday 10hrs/day for a year giving her his time, energy, thoughts,efforts to impress,and emotions all while lying to my face. He was willing to crush me to be with her. Picture that.


----------



## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

Not what really is strange, can't remember who said it but they talked about a "long distance EA" which I assume to mean phone calls, or other dumb behavior, but in that situation there is never a risk of it going PA. I read one post somewhere on a different thread that the wife was destroyed over the fact that her hubby had a long distance EA with a chic in another country. Now there was never a chance of them meeting, and never a chance for a PA, but non the less she was broken to pieces.. I don't get that.. I mean I can understand being pissed and probably ripping the phone out of the wall if I stern warning did not stop the behavior but there was no contact so to speak. 

Additionally the definition that many are giving here is EA/PA where they are holding hands, strolling barefoot on the beach together etc. I was thinking of an EA as getting a bit to friendly with someone else, sowing the seed so to speak, but not going intimate.


----------



## code7600 (Mar 20, 2011)

I think the male and female perspectives can be radically different on EA vs PA. A man is genetically threatened by an unfaithful wife and the possibility of raising the OM's child. A wife is threatened by the loss of security and a lifetime of love a marriage should provide. Personally PA was a show stopper.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Bandit said:


> Additionally the definition that many are giving here is EA/PA where they are holding hands, strolling barefoot on the beach together etc. I was thinking of an EA as getting a bit to friendly with someone else, sowing the seed so to speak, but not going intimate.


But that's where you're wrong. You see: an emotional affair is very intimate. Sharing thoughts/feelings/being vulnerable with someone else emotionally is extremely intimate.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you focus too much on physical intimacy



think about the damage of an EA

when you give your emotional heart/love to someone else that means you are also taking it away from the spouse

that leads to less physical intimacy, more arguments, less time spent with the spouse since they want to chat with their EA lover, rewriting marital history, irrational justifications, child neglect, money spent on gifts sometimes, etc etc

my goodness, don't you see this?'

for you the physical consummation is the be all, end all I guess, but I would hope that you could at least see how very destructive an EA is


----------



## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> But that's where you're wrong. You see: an emotional affair is very intimate. Sharing thoughts/feelings/being vulnerable with someone else emotionally is extremely intimate.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

My wife's E/A was never physical of any kind, when she told me POSOM made her feel special and important, dude that was all it took....My guts are still on the back porch, where we had D-day.


----------



## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> you focus too much on physical intimacy
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I really want to crush that little bouncing turtle.. but good point though and I am seeing your side. However, I still see the EA as the lesser of two evils..


----------



## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

To me, EAs are pathways to PAs...

I wonder how many EAs turn physical?


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Bandit said:


> I really want to crush that little bouncing turtle.. but good point though and I am seeing your side. However, I still see the EA as the lesser of two evils..


that's your opinion and I can't change that as we all have our dealbreakers/lines in the sand that we set

but just because you don't share the same value doesn't make it less valid to the person suffering


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Bandit, Intimacy is about more than physical touch. If my H is sharing his innermost thoughts w/ow and not w me he is intimate w/her. If he is lying to me to spend time w/her, he choses her over me. If he is hiding emails from her b/c they contain inappropriate discussions, he is breaking his vows. He essentially is chosing her over me. You cant see where that is heartbreaking?


----------



## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Bandit said:


> I really want to crush that little bouncing turtle.. but good point though and I am seeing your side. However, I still see the EA as the lesser of two evils..


Everyone is different, I thought I would seirously walk, without hesitation, if something like this ever came around...but you just dont know, until it actually happens to you..


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Bandit said:


> I really want to crush that little bouncing turtle.. but good point though and I am seeing your side. However, I still see the EA as the lesser of two evils..


Well may you never find out Bandit. Really. Its worse than you would think. I didnt think it would be so hard either.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

strugglinghusband said:


> Everyone is different, I thought I would seirously walk, without hesitation, if something like this ever came around...but you just dont know, until it actually happens to you..


This is very true. When I first saw the soul-crushing email I thought, "Well, I guess that's that. I'm going to be divorced soon."

But we talked a lot, worked out some things, had our hysterical bonding, etc, etc, and here we are, almost a year later. I woudln't say we are doing great, but we are doing way better than I thought we would after I saw that email.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

For me it was completely the emotional aspect of her affairs that broke me down... when it went physical it basically brought the EA to completion. If she just wanted more c0ck I was even willing to come up with solutions, ie open marriage, swinging, three ways, even toyed with the idea of being her cuckhold if it meant she still reserved her emotional relationship to me... I was not the first man to have sex with her, it is just a couple body parts after all no big deal in the grand scheme, it was giving herself emotionally to these other lovers that killed me.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

EAs are horrible because:

You realise that your partner is prioritising her and not you......even though you are exclusive to him and she most likely isn't. I felt this way both in my marriage and in this last go round with my boyfriend.

No I don't want plans changed because of her. I don't want ot be told we can't afford something because you have already earmarked the budget for her. I don't want to find out how my time is going to be spent, or how my partner's time is going to be spent or anything else that is personal and important from someone else.

EA's are more than about a couple hundred e-mails a day or sending naked pictures. It's about realising how decisions are being made for you because your partner is letting someone else call the shots AND she doesn't even have the same kind of investment in the relationship as I do.


----------



## Vanton68 (Feb 5, 2012)

To me the big deal is that, an EA is like pre-sex dating. 

IMHO, basically an EA is just leading up to sex. It's like if you busted your wife pulling up in the hotel parking lot to meet the OM. It doesn't have to be physical already (they both have intent and are acting on that intent), it is just leading to the sexual encounter.

But if I had to choose my betrayal between a strictly EA and a non emotional PA (say ONS) I would choose the EA.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> how strange, I feel the opposite in some respects
> 
> had my wife expressed "I love you"' to the OM and such I would have not taken her back


And this is where it's so difficult for me. The multiple "I Love You"s, "You're the love of my life", etc, etc, etc, is very very hard to overcome. Especially since I recently came into possession of those messages and actually seeing them in black and white.......

Seeing just how madly and deeply she was in the fog with OM, giving her heart and soul.....OMG.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> EAs are horrible because:
> 
> You realise that your partner is prioritising her and not you......even though you are exclusive to him and she most likely isn't. I felt this way both in my marriage and in this last go round with my boyfriend.
> 
> ...


Or for him to be late coming home b/c he spent too much time flirting and carrying on w/her at work to get his work done on time so now he wont be home in time to do what WE had planned...not to mention the financial loss this has been.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Not sure if you are referring to me..but my H. had an long distance EA however they did meet while he was working in another country overseas...so for about 6 weeks or so they spent time together...going out for dinner, etc. Then when he got back they did continue their relationship via email, etc.

It bugs the **** out of me that while I was back here going to work every day, looking after the house, he was "dating" someone in an exotic exicting location.

So just because it was long distance for a good portion of it...she was planning on moving here with him (with his financial help I am sure)...one of her emails said I can't wait until I can come and live with you for the rest of my life...once I broke into his email..I sent it back to her and I said...this is his wife, if you think you are going to move here and live happily ever after you are wrong.

THe betrayal whether it be a PA or an EA can be just as bad...


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

highwood said:


> Not sure if you are referring to me..but my H. had an long distance EA however they did meet while he was working in another country overseas...so for about 6 weeks or so they spent time together...going out for dinner, etc. Then when he got back they did continue their relationship via email, etc.
> 
> It bugs the **** out of me that while I was back here going to work every day, looking after the house, he was "dating" someone in an exotic exicting location.
> 
> ...


The WORST part of any A be it EA/PA is the betral and the lies.
Wondering how much of your life is bs? How many times has he claimed to be working and you held dinner over so he could stay with her? That picture thats hanging in the hall...what did he do that day just before it was taken? When he bought that new ring, why did he bother? He knew he was lying. When you were tolerating his mother's crap because you were trying to respect him, he was pissing all over you....

Thats what its like in the aftermath of a A. You sit alone in the bathroom in the dark thinking of all the times in your life that he has lied straight to your face. All the sacrifices you have made for him. Last year on our anniversary in June I have emails to her, wow. so what do you think Im going to be thinking about this year on our anniversary? Its just freakin vicious.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I admit too in my anger I have insulted him by saying I am sure she was just using you to immigrate to Canada because her friend was here, how stupid of you to fall for that crap, etc. etc.

I don't give a **** if that is the wrong thing to say but if it is on my mind I will say it. He used to always go on about how certain woman can be gold diggers yet he fell for that as well...in my mind, she thought she hit the jackpot..a foreign guy who worked in the oil industry, made good money and conviently lived in the same city and country as her friend, who wanted her to come over and start a new life in Canada. A country in which there are opportunities aplenty. She thought she had it made...
All it took was some flirting and some "Hi Handsome" comments from her to him and he fell for it..what a ****ing idiot! I think part of my anger toward him is that I feel that I have lost a certain amount of respect for him...how could he have been so stupid.

Frick I am getting pissed off again....


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

UGGG it makes me sick now to think about my EA. I told him I love him, I gave him all my attention. We just got phones with texting a couple months before. Damn me for all the stupid ways I betrayed Calvin. There is alot of damage to repair after an EA. He can't help but wonder if I'll do it again, I know I won't but the trust is gone. Calvin loves me yes, but sometimes I see the fear in his eyes. It totally broke his heart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> UGGG it makes me sick now to think about my EA. I told him I love him, I gave him all my attention. We just got phones with texting a couple months before. Damn me for all the stupid ways I betrayed Calvin. There is alot of damage to repair after an EA. He can't help but wonder if I'll do it again, I know I won't but the trust is gone. Calvin loves me yes, but sometimes I see the fear in his eyes. It totally broke his heart.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


CSS, I am SO glad that you 'get' that though. Its agonizing and brutal(no matter what Bandit says lol). Dont do it again. No one should ever have to endure this even ONCE, TWICE is unthinkable.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

highwood said:


> I admit too in my anger I have insulted him by saying I am sure she was just using you to immigrate to Canada because her friend was here, how stupid of you to fall for that crap, etc. etc.
> 
> I don't give a **** if that is the wrong thing to say but if it is on my mind I will say it. He used to always go on about how certain woman can be gold diggers yet he fell for that as well...in my mind, she thought she hit the jackpot..a foreign guy who worked in the oil industry, made good money and conviently lived in the same city and country as her friend, who wanted her to come over and start a new life in Canada. A country in which there are opportunities aplenty. She thought she had it made...
> All it took was some flirting and some "Hi Handsome" comments from her to him and he fell for it..what a ****ing idiot! I think part of my anger toward him is that I feel that I have lost a certain amount of respect for him...how could he have been so stupid.
> ...


thats how I feel. Afew compliments, some ego stroking and BAM! Screw my 15yrs of faithfulness, respect and love. Not saying I am or was perfect but I didnt deserve this. Im so MAD. IM so .. the words just dont come.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> that's your opinion and I can't change that as we all have our dealbreakers/lines in the sand that we set
> 
> but just because you don't share the same value doesn't make it less valid to the person suffering


Personally, my spouse's EA crushed me. Am still not out of it. Had it been a PA, the marriage would have been over.

AlmostRecovered, I see your side. In your case, she had PA. Did not start at emotional level? 
To me both are intolerable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

In most cases,ya the EA leads up to PA, but the emotional connection made between to poeple is worse then two poeple screwing around and never see each other again.

It suck to use poeple just for sex, a little companionship but when AP start showing feelings and you bail b/c there getting to close.....well thats a real good thing if its your spouse that is doing the using and bails. Kinda.LOL

In short sex is sex, and its this thinking I had that gave me a unhealthy marriage. And it also this thinking that saved it. In a small part.

Sure I'm wired different them most but my wife did what she did for the companionship and the cost for that was sex. Did she ever love them no, was there an emotional connection... sure, but at the end of the day were did that connection lead to? No were. The connection in my wifes affairs started up as quick as they ended.

In my research,I took a years worth of cell phone usage and put them in a Excel program and was able to coillate different values and I found that contact only lasted for a week. in some case I could tell were emotion was involved but at best is was a month of contact.

My point is, I'm in the crowd of EA is worse then PA. But in the same breath is quantity any better then quality, when it comes to your spouse sleeping around?


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I wonder if Bandit got the answer to his question yet.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

AngryandUsed said:


> Personally, my spouse's EA crushed me. Am still not out of it. Had it been a PA, the marriage would have been over.
> 
> AlmostRecovered, I see your side. In your case, she had PA. Did not start at emotional level?
> To me both are intolerable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


while I believed she liked OM (after all, most of us don't have sex with people we don't like), there was no deep emotional connection during her PA (yet...stopped it in 18 days) There was no love you, gotta be with you, sort of sh!t. It was focused on the sex more.

and yes it sucks, either way it goes


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> thats how I feel. Afew compliments, some ego stroking and BAM! Screw my 15yrs of faithfulness, respect and love. Not saying I am or was perfect but I didnt deserve this. Im so MAD. IM so .. the words just dont come.


Same here..I know I wasn't always the best wife..but for **** sakes just end the relationship then. I honestly do not know if I could see myself behind his back texting and messaging and phoning another guy while still being in a relationship. I would have felt so guilty about it....

That is another thing that pisses me off in that for 10 days before I caught him red handed by hacking into his private email with her..he lied to me told me he had stopped contacting her..plus all the talks we had during that week in which I was crying and saying we can work this out, I will work on stuff I have to work on and yet during that time he still was in contact.
Not on bit of guilt on his part....on one of the emails he said to her, "Hi beautiful" all this while we were going to try and work on our marriage. **** sometimes I want to make his life hell.... 

This is one of those times in which I feel like picking up the phone and contacting a lawyer and just saying **** it...I'm done. So for anyone who thinks that it has been 6 months and get over it...easier said than done. You never forget the words that you saw....I think he wishes that I would never bring it up again..but to me you did the actions you suffer the consequences.


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

highwood said:


> Same here..I know I wasn't always the best wife..but for **** sakes just end the relationship then. I honestly do not know if I could see myself behind his back texting and messaging and phoning another guy while still being in a relationship. I would have felt so guilty about it....
> 
> That is another thing that pisses me off in that for 10 days before I caught him red handed by hacking into his private email with her..he lied to me told me he had stopped contacting her..plus all the talks we had during that week in which I was crying and saying we can work this out, I will work on stuff I have to work on and yet during that time he still was in contact.
> Not on bit of guilt on his part....on one of the emails he said to her, "Hi beautiful" all this while we were going to try and work on our marriage. **** sometimes I want to make his life hell....
> ...


I agree
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

For me the EA is much worse than the PA. Someone mentioned that he didn't marry a virgin, and someone else said that sex is sex -- just two body parts touching.

I would've been devastated if my wife had hooked up with her ex BF from twenty years ago and had a ONS. But not nearly as much as the two year EA that she had with him. Halfway through the EA, I took the family on a two week trip to London and Paris. Now, instead of thinking about Big Ben Buckingham Palace, the Louvre, and the Eiffel Tower, all I can think about is that mentally she was wishing that she was with him instead of me. 

Instead of 'We'll always have Paris', now it's 'I"LL ALWAYS HAVE PARIS'. Sucks, big time. Should've been our trip of a lifetime. I could've spent the 10K that the trip cost on some really great toys for me and the kids.

In an EA, your spouse is no longer bonding with you -- they are giving their heart and soul to the AP. For me this is so much worse than them just giving their body.


----------



## brokenbloke (Feb 21, 2012)

OP I know you explained that you aren't discounting the feelings of those who suffered through their spouse having an EA, and no offense, but this got to be one of the...silliest (I'll just say to be polite) questions ever.


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Obvoiusly an EA that turns PA is the worst. I'm thankful that I did not go PA. It has to be alot worse I don't know lets just say it all horrible EA Or PA it is a nightmare.. ok so some people think a PA with no emotion isn't as bad..hell I don't wanna know. They are all affairs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Alright, I'll say it. It was a totally ridiculous, insensitive, assinine question. It would be like me saying, come on, Bandit, it was just sex, once, she didn't care about the guy, what's the big deal you overdramatic baby?


----------



## Hunger (Mar 26, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> I agree
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Just sent you a private letter.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I wish to god my wife had just had sex one night and woke up, regretted it, and stopped her EA. Instead, a 2-year-long EA occured where she didn't think of it as an "afair", because they never had sex (supposedly)... she just talked about it, with comments and messeages like this one:

_I love you and I shouldn't and I can't stop it. If I told you that the only thing I could think about last night into today was how it would be to be made love to by you, would that kill you?
I want to hate you believe me, especially after that remark. Hating you would be so much easier than loving you. Which I do. still going to wish I could make love to you all night"_

I really wish she'd ****ed him and woken up to regret and stop, pull; back, end it. Instead, we are divorcing. I tried to see it as "nothing, no big deal", for a very long time. It's not "nothing". It's actually everything. She calls it "a mistake" -- I call it a choice she made. Wrong choice as it was continuous for 2 years, lying and deceiving me while I went to work and supported our family; this is how she entertained herself while I was away, and it's a choice I cannot live with because it tell me exactly how she felt about me and our marriage for that time period -- second choice.

Don't anyone dare tell ME how to feel about it, goddammit...


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think that a long term PA would have been a deal breaker for me, as screwed up a I am the connection between the wife and AP would not have been broken as quckly as it was in my case. 

I am thinking with this LTA and EA stuff the fake R and going underground is more likely, plus I couldn't put up with the withdrawals.

EA are just harder to get over for the wayward hence harder for me to forgive. IMHO

I think no matter what EA or PA the choice the wayward makes after d-day are my deal breakers for me.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I understand the damage of an EA but I lean towards the OP`s feelings.

An EA I could simply tell her to go NC and if she did I could get on with life.
It`s all deluded affair fog anyway which she`d probably see herself the moment she was free of his influence.

A PA...even a ONS would force divorce papers into her hands.


----------



## MmHo (Mar 29, 2012)

My husband has had a number of EA's.... mainly because he thought he could get away with the lies... but really he was too idle to get himself "tarted up" and get in the car and go and meet up with them, why waste petrol, time and money when it can be done by email, texts and ellicit phone calls. Being quite a Narcissist "Barsteward" he gets his supply from any female he can dupe into believing him to be a family man, church going Christian! They have absolutely no idea how far from the truth that is, and how boring this man can be in person:sleeping:.... as he can be quite witty with his emails usually using someone elses chat up lines!....If they were to meet him in real life they would be realy disappointed.... he can barely mumble a few sentences!! It's one of the many reasons I am no longer with him. TG:smthumbup:


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

The good news here is that, according to Bandit, I have NOTHING to worry about and should just quit my damned whining.....maybe tomorrow I can do that but today...not so much.

Sorry Bandit, that was just really insensitive and unusual for you. Still like ya though. As you'd say Big ole CTU hug.


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I see where Bandit is coming from to a point,a local EA hurts like hell,and had more of a chance to develope into a PA quickly if you dont catch it.
Its forgiveable,not very easy but possible.
A long distance EA is not a huge deal,yes it will p!ss you off but its all fantasy.Not much of a chance off them getting together.
A PA,thats it,all bets are off,in my eyes the WS has become tainted and I just couldnt see making love to her any more after another man had been all over her,I could never kiss or have oral with a WS again,they are damaged goods.
Its hard enough getting over a local EA knowing that they had met up a few times and that she could be taken in so damn easily and lie to my face while I cried and asked questions.Never again!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I think either way...your spouse traded you for another. Period. You fell to second place. OM/OW came first. ON OUR WEDDING ANNIVERSARY( he has about 25 emails to her(keeping in mind that he sits 10ft from her)that means even when they werent yuckin it up face to face he couldnt just work so he could get done so we could go out that evening. NOPE and so he was late coming home but he didnt miss a minute w/her. The betrayal of it and the time span that it usually covers(more than a year in my case) leaves you looking back at all that happened during that time and wondering just how much,if any, of your life was real. Knowing they CAN look you square in the face and lie to you and then climb on top of you with a clear conscience changes your view of that person forever I suspect.


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I think either way...your spouse traded you for another. Period. You fell to second place. OM/OW came first. ON our wedding anniversary he has about 25 emails to her and was late coming home but he didnt miss a minute w/her. The betrayal of it and the time span that it usually covers(more than a year in my case) leaves you looking back at all that happened during that time and wondering just how much,if any, of your life was real. Knowing they CAN look you square in the face and lie to you and then climb on top of you with a clear conscience changes your view of that person forever I suspect.


You'll get no argument from me there Cant,it hard thats for sure,changed forever.Its kind of like temporary insanity with the for and all,I mean if youre not thinking about your kids,you must be nuts right? One chance and one only,I hate that know I'm an expert on looking for and investigating any type of an affair,there are success stories out there.I dont think the pain of betrayal ever goes away,you learn to deal with it and be on guard for the rest of your life....God,the rest of your life,this sucks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

calvin said:


> You'll get no argument from me there Cant,it hard thats for sure,changed forever.Its kind of like temporary insanity with the for and all,I mean if youre not thinking about your kids,you must be nuts right? One chance and one only,I hate that know I'm an expert on looking for and investigating any type of an affair,there are success stories out there.I dont think the pain of betrayal ever goes away,you learn to deal with it and be on guard for the rest of your life....God,the rest of your life,this sucks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is just miserable sounding but whats the alternative, right? But when you say" this is your one chance" That is exactly what I have said to H. Its on you. If you take a step toward her, its over. I am at my absolute limit. I feel like I have a boulder on my chest and if even another pebble is dropped on top I will not be able to breathe at all.


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> That is just miserable sounding but whats the alternative, right? But when you say" this is your one chance" That is exactly what I have said to H. Its on you. If you take a step toward her, its over. I am at my absolute limit. I feel like I have a boulder on my chest and if even another pebble is dropped on top I will not be able to breathe at all.


Yes miserable is an understatement,I'm sure with time it will get better,the second thoughts,the wondering,did I do the right thing drive me nuts sometimes,feels like I'm being drawn and quartered but if they deserve to be forgiven and this is something way out of character for the WS,then you should give it your all...I think.It's just so damn hard.Its a roll of the dice,scared the hell out of me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## henley (Feb 29, 2012)

Really IMO it is all just semantics. We are all here because we are hurting like hell or we hurt someone like hell. Whether that was an EA or PA does it really matter??

In my case, I found facebook messages between my H and the OW talking about how much they loved each other, missed each other (while we were on vacation!!), and details of all the sexually explicit things they WANTED to do to each other. My mind never even went to an EA because I knew that it was more with them (coworkers, friends and spending an increasing amount of time together), but had it just been a matter of saying those things to each other and no physical contact I still would have been crushed.

And now... it is less about the physical things they did together that I am struggling to get over as much as it is the feelings my H had for the OW and the loneliness I had endured prior to knowing what was going on as he turned away from me to commit all this time to someone else. 

So... which is worse? I don't really think there can possibly be a "winner" here


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Would you rather have a stroke or a heart attack?

Depends on the severity.

Same with emotional affairs and physical affairs. Depends on the severity.

Some of the women on this site who have been involved in emotional affairs have spent countless hours and energy on the other man while cutting off their husbands from sex and basically disconnecting from the marriage. Told the other man they love him and he is their soulmate, how they would leave their husband in a second, how they plan to leave their husband as soon as they have their ducks in a row, making plans to meet up with each other and have sex that never comes to fruition, denigrate their husband to the other man, always guarding their phones and always texting instead of being involved in family activities, and having cybersex with the other man.

Some of the women on this site have had a physical affair, a drunken one-night stand on a girls night out or at a work convention, and never see the other man again.

Having both a stroke and a heart attack probably would be worse than having either one separately. Still, it depends on the severity and the impact on how your body/mind can function going forward. Same with physical and emotional affairs.


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Good example Will Kane
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

The thing with CSS,she never sexted with him or talked about it with him but he was a player full of sh!t and I know he was close to taking it to that level,OM has experience,he knew not to push it to fast.I'm glad he's afraid of me and he should be.Hell, I'm afraid of myself,if I get ahold of him,I dont trust myself to stop.CSS is very close to being in the right frame of mind now,why cant I do the same? It eats at me,cant stop thinking about it.I am getting better but its so hard to let go. Time will tell with new couselor but she seems light years ahead of the first one we tried.Christ,why is it so hard.Does this sh!t in my head ever going to stop? Fine one minute,the next,not so good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

calvin said:


> The thing with CSS,she never sexted with him or talked about it with him but he was a player full of sh!t and I know he was close to taking it to that level,OM has experience,he knew not to push it to fast.I'm glad he's afraid of me and he should be.Hell, I'm afraid of myself,if I get ahold of him,I dont trust myself to stop.CSS is very close to being in the right frame of mind now,why cant I do the same? It eats at me,cant stop thinking about it.I am getting better but its so hard to let go. Time will tell with new couselor but she seems light years ahead of the first one we tried.Christ,why is it so hard.Does this sh!t in my head ever going to stop? Fine one minute,the next,not so good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Calvin all I can say is....I feel ya.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

EA or PA, either way it means your supposedly life partner demotes you to number 2.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

snap said:


> EA or PA, either way it means your supposedly life partner demotes you to number 2.


simply and painfully put and absolutely no other way to see it. If youre lucky youre number 2. After the job and and and....


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

snap said:


> EA or PA, either way it means your supposedly life partner demotes you to number 2.


Yes,youre put at #2 but when they come out of the fog and see what they have done to you and your children,I can see the WS get their priorities straight and come back around,they see the damage they have done and do their best to make it right.As for the BS,its hard.The WS was shocked back into realiy,why cant the BS be shocked into knowing its over and there is no need to worry?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Can someone tell me why I'm stuggling with this after nine weeks,when I KNOW she'd never do this again.(Yes I know what Bandit will say)
Why is this still in my head? How do I make it stop? I dont get it maybe I never will,maybe with time. I guess everyone feels this way and I'm thinking too hard but this sh!t is all over me like alabama tick.....thanks for letting me vent,now I need to go kill something and eat it before it dies
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Calvin, it will never happen again..I love you too much to hurt you that way again, the bad news is some people say it takes years. We have a new councelor, we will be ok and btw you are my hero, you saved me from that piece of crap scumbag, I am not saying lets rugsweap but I think we have a bright future, I'm not going anywhere, I learned alot from this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Anybody out there think we're weird or strange for the way we post? Just a question no offense will be taken,seems to work for us so far. : )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

calvin said:


> Anybody out there think we're weird or strange for the way we post? Just a question no offense will be taken,seems to work for us so far. : )
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


by 'we' you mean you and CSS?


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

lol we do talk to eachother other than on here but sometimes it's kinda fun to talk to him here 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> lol we do talk to eachother other than on here but sometimes it's kinda fun to talk to him here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I say if you've found a way to get thru this mess, then thats exactly what you should do. Exactly. I hope the time comes when my H can come on w/me. Im not there yet(til he gets a new job and never sees ow again). So good for you-both of you.


----------



## Purple Haze (Apr 15, 2012)

Where does friendship end and EA start? 

I am not trying to start anything, just new to site and am trying to figure it all out.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Bandit said:


> Trying to figure out the whole EA issue? I read about a lot of people on hear that were "DEVASTATED" by their spouses EA. Which to me seems a bit melodramatic and/or over the top. I understand a PA, which of course means that your spouse was shagged by somebody else; this I can relate to as being devastating as they were intimate together, their was an exchange of fluids etc..
> 
> It may just be my understanding of the term EA, but it seems as though it encompasses texting, sexting, talking on the phone, talking about their relationship, being buddy buddy etc.. but not physical.. all behaviors which are uncool, and I don't condone. However, none of which I see as "Devastating or heart wrenching" more or less along the lines of just acting stupid. Left unchecked this behavior could certainly sow the seeds for something more insidious but you can't convict before a crime (Minority Report).. and since nothing "physical has happened" it is not the end of the world so to speak..
> 
> ...


Think of an EA as the mating ritual before your spouse starts banging someone else. This is whne your marriage is destroyed. They fall in live with another. It is being unfaithful. It is essemtially the ritual most of us had with our spouse before we have sex with them.

It's a big deal.

If you do not mind your woman being in love with another gus and not you then ok. A PA is an absolute deal breaker for me. But thing of an EA is another guy seducing your woman and she is going along with it. Some guys do not mind their wives dating other men. Also many EAs are PAs but spouses are none the wiser.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Bandit said:


> I'm kinda with you, if it goes PA then that's bad, but at the EA point things are probably still salvageable, but once it goes PA.. well there is no fixing that as they are no longer yours..


Many people think this. But even if you catch an EA before it goes PA, they may take it to a PA anyway. You have to catch an EA early.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Purple Haze said:


> Where does friendship end and EA start?
> 
> I am not trying to start anything, just new to site and am trying to figure it all out.


the first moment you share with someone else something that should be for your spouse.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Purple Haze said:


> Where does friendship end and EA start?
> 
> I am not trying to start anything, just new to site and am trying to figure it all out.


Friendship ends and EA starts when you put the relationship with the 'friend' above your spouse. It becomes an EA when you do and say things to your 'friend' that you would be ashamed to let your spouse know about.


----------



## Purple Haze (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks for the clarifications.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Purple Haze said:


> Thanks for the clarifications.


You're welcome. 

(By the way, another name for an Emotional Affair is 'Affair of the Heart', which I think leaves no doubt about the seriousness of the offense with respect to the betrayed spouse.)


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Thank you Canttrustu  I feel when the I love yous happen it went way too far..Now I can't figure out how I could've said that to a man I hardly knew, yes he was an ex bf from 20 something yrs ago but crap now I KNOW I didn't really love him, Calvin was the one that took care of me when I went thru tragedies and such.. What was I thinking???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Thought about bandits question over the weekend, I guess you can look at like comparing a rotten apple to a rotten orange, both taste like ****, but if you've only tasted the one, you become somewhat biased to the other...wow your lucky you didnt taste the rotten apple(P/A) because its the absoulte worst and not even knowing what the rotten orange(E/A) tastes like,or vice versa.. the poison, trying to choke it down .....then you try to make sense of it in your mind, if had gone the other way , would you still try R? would the other have been a deal breaker?, would the hurt have been any less?...IDK..
I guess its our own minds trying to protect us from hurt, saying one or the other is worse, depending on which happened to you.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Thought about bandits question over the weekend, I guess you can look at like comparing a rotten apple to a rotten orange, both taste like ****, but if you've only tasted the one, you become somewhat biased to the other...wow your lucky you didnt taste the rotten apple(P/A) because its the absoulte worst and not even knowing what the rotten orange(E/A) tastes like,or vice versa.. the poison, trying to choke it down .....then you try to make sense of it in your mind, if had gone the other way , would you still try R? would the other have been a deal breaker?, would the hurt have been any less?...IDK..
> I guess its our own minds trying to protect us from hurt, saying one or the other is worse, depending on which happened to you.


This is why, in life, I deliberately choose not to envy anyone else for anything. And that is especially true of cr*p in their lives. I would not trade places with anyone else because I don't know exactly what they're going through, I don't have their background, preferences, childhood, fears, family or lack thereof, etc etc. Maybe their situation is way worse than mine...and I really don't want to find out the hard way.


----------



## reggis (Apr 11, 2012)

Maybe you're still struggling because she really had a PA not an EA and your brain is telling you something she and your heart are saying differently.

I read most of the posts. There's more to it then just an EA.

I sense it.


----------



## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

I have read most of the posts here and I'm still on the fence about it. I can understand the thoughts and feelings of those who have been victimized by an EA. There feelings have been hurt, they have felt devalued etc. but regardless their territory is still theirs. Nobody else has come in and mowed down your crops and planted their own "seed" so to speak.. Basically at the EA stage you still have a chance to throw up a fence, cordon off the area, and secure the area to prevent future incursion. However at the PA stage, your perimeter has been breached, and even after you re-take the land, physical remnants of the previous incursion will remain. 

I still view a PA as the worse of the two as it constitutes the consummation of the affair. ie. the EA would be fore play and a PA would be laying some pipe. Just my 2 cents


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Here's my 2 cents-

If someone had given me a choice between-

A) 

him having actual Feelings for her. Her being on his mind when he is with me. Him trading his time with me for time with her. An entire years worth of lies and deceit 

-OR-




B)
He could have just slept with her and moved on.....With no further attachment. w/o me wondering how he feels about her. w/o worrying that things he sees will remind him of her. I WOULD CHOOSE OPTION B EVERY TIME!


he has slept with other women before me and it meant nothing to him then or now. BUT- every woman he has ever had feelings for holds a spot somewhere in him FOREVER!


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I have thought about this six ways from Sunday

would I prefer that my WS had an ONS

or a PA with no emotional attachment

or an EA with no PA

EA/PA is worse than any of those I think

but then serial cheating is worse than that perhaps

but I stick to my original feeling, I take what life hands me, I don't try to wonder what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes, maybe what they have to endure would break me down entirely, but thankfully I never have to find out


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Bandit said:


> I have read most of the posts here and I'm still on the fence about it. I can understand the thoughts and feelings of those who have been victimized by an EA. There feelings have been hurt, they have felt devalued etc. but regardless their territory is still theirs. Nobody else has come in and mowed down your crops and planted their own "seed" so to speak.. Basically at the EA stage you still have a chance to throw up a fence, cordon off the area, and secure the area to prevent future incursion. However at the PA stage, your perimeter has been breached, and even after you re-take the land, physical remnants of the previous incursion will remain.
> 
> I still view a PA as the worse of the two as it constitutes the consummation of the affair. ie. the EA would be fore play and a PA would be laying some pipe. Just my 2 cents


Then that's your opinion. You may have their body, but their heart and soul belongs to someone else. I would rather my fWW have a few ONSs rather than see the love and yearning to be together with OM, all the things that were denied to me, sending gifts like shirts and rosary beads, the prayers to God that he give them the chance to be together, telling OM that he's the love of her life, how she cant wait to be his wife, etc, etc.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

It's not like we have to have a contest who's worse off here..


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Then that's your opinion. You may have their body, but their heart and soul belongs to someone else. I would rather my fWW have a few ONSs rather than see the love and yearning to be together with OM, all the things that were denied to me, sending gifts like shirts and rosary beads, the prayers to God that he give them the chance to be together, telling OM that he's the love of her life, how she cant wait to be his wife, etc, etc.


Im so so sorry LM. One foot in front of the other....


----------



## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> too add, this cavalier attitude about EA's is so prevalent in society that many people in an EA don't even think they are cheating


Exactly.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Bandit said:


> Not what really is strange, can't remember who said it but they talked about a "long distance EA" which I assume to mean phone calls, or other dumb behavior, but in that situation there is never a risk of it going PA. I read one post somewhere on a different thread that the wife was destroyed over the fact that her hubby had a long distance EA with a chic in another country. Now there was never a chance of them meeting, and never a chance for a PA, but non the less she was broken to pieces.. I don't get that.. I mean I can understand being pissed and probably ripping the phone out of the wall if I stern warning did not stop the behavior but there was no contact so to speak.
> 
> Additionally the definition that many are giving here is EA/PA where they are holding hands, strolling barefoot on the beach together etc. I was thinking of an EA as getting a bit to friendly with someone else, sowing the seed so to speak, but not going intimate.


Bandit- there is more than just physical intimacy between a wife and Husband. When one has an EA, they give away the emotional intimacy they promised to their spouse. And usually in order to give it to someone else the WS takes it from their spouse leaving them to wonder WTF is going on? Why does my marriage suddenly seem half a$$ed here? This may be one of those things you just CANT understand unless it actually happens to you. I think youre putting too much emphasis on purely physical intimacy when there is so much more to a marriage.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Exactly.


Yeah--did y'all see in the 'did you expose' thread that is on the forum right now, someone said they exposed the EA and half the people got mad at the BS because it was "just" an EA?? OMG on top of everything else this would have sent me round the bend


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Yeah--did y'all see in the 'did you expose' thread that is on the forum right now, someone said they exposed the EA and half the people got mad at the BS because it was "just" an EA?? OMG on top of everything else this would have sent me round the bend


sounds like my In-laws and I didnt tell them, he did. People are ignorant. Its one of those things kind of like being shot, you can imagine it would hurt but until THAT bullet pierces you, you have to rely on your imagination. Some people dont have much of that.


----------



## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

I also struggle with the concept of the EA. I don't really think I know exactly what it is. Don't get me wrong, I do think that it's real. however, what is crossing the line with an EA? Is a 'crush' an EA? Is it a matter that he or she would do something physical if it weren't for being in another relationship? Clearly there are 'major' and 'minor' EAs but what is is major and what is minor?

My problem is that most people who are married for decades will encounter someone that they 'like' or for which there is mutual chemistry. It's not unusual that they do stupid things like decide to go out for a drink when they know that there is some attraction there. Flirting then ensues and chemistry grows. Is this kind of thing an EA? It's certainly not innocent behavior but is it an EA to carry on a little like this? 

If just flirting is not an EA, when does regular flirting turn into an EA? When does 'hanging out' with someone with which there is mutual attraction turn into an EA? If you are friends with someone of the opposite sex (or same) and there is attraction that develops, is it an EA? Is the question of whether it's an EA or not more of what happens in your mind or what happens physically (not sexual of course). For example, do you need to talk to each other in a certain way or can it all go unsaid but be in your own mind or both your minds? What if an EA is not mutual? What if you become smitten with someone and they consume your thoughts but the other person never gives any signs of reciprocation.

So while i do agree that it's hurtful (i should know, i've been hurt by more than one of them), I have a hard time understanding exactly what an EA is.


----------



## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Bandit said:


> I have read most of the posts here and I'm still on the fence about it. I can understand the thoughts and feelings of those who have been victimized by an EA. There feelings have been hurt, they have felt devalued etc. but regardless their territory is still theirs. Nobody else has come in and mowed down your crops and planted their own "seed" so to speak.. Basically at the EA stage you still have a chance to throw up a fence, cordon off the area, and secure the area to prevent future incursion. However at the PA stage, your perimeter has been breached, and even after you re-take the land, physical remnants of the previous incursion will remain.
> 
> I still view a PA as the worse of the two as it constitutes the consummation of the affair. ie. the EA would be fore play and a PA would be laying some pipe. Just my 2 cents


If you see your wife's vagina as a piece of property or land, I suppose this makes sense. You compare her body to land, just like those dealing with an EAs can compare her heart and her mind to land. The seeds have been planted, the perimeter has been breached, and even after you re-take the land, emotional remnants of the previous incursion will remain. It all comes down to opinion.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

couple said:


> I also struggle with the concept of the EA. I don't really think I know exactly what it is. Don't get me wrong, I do think that it's real. however, what is crossing the line with an EA? Is a 'crush' an EA? Is it a matter that he or she would do something physical if it weren't for being in another relationship? Clearly there are 'major' and 'minor' EAs but what is is major and what is minor?
> 
> My problem is that most people who are married for decades will encounter someone that they 'like' or for which there is mutual chemistry. It's not unusual that they do stupid things like decide to go out for a drink when they know that there is some attraction there. Flirting then ensues and chemistry grows. Is this kind of thing an EA? It's certainly not innocent behavior but is it an EA to carry on a little like this?
> 
> ...


The supreme court decided that pornography doesn't have an explicit definition but rather you know it when you see it. (paraphrasing of course) 

I suppose the biggest litmus test is that in an EA you are placing the relationship with another person above the marriage and are withdrawing the feelings and intimacy from the partner you took a vow with and giving them to them instead.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

couple said:


> If just flirting is not an EA, when does regular flirting turn into an EA?


When it becomes regular and too uncomfortable to share with your SO.



> When does 'hanging out' with someone with which there is mutual attraction turn into an EA?


If you hang out 1:1 with no other business than mutual attraction, and take steps to deceive your spouse, it is an EA. Though if you have ability to meet in person, the affair is likely to end up as PA.



> If you are friends with someone of the opposite sex (or same) and there is attraction that develops, is it an EA?


Not an EA per se, but it's a dangerous route. As soon as you start confiding things that normally only shared by people in a relationship, it's an affair.

A rule of thumb though, if you have to hide details of your relationship with a person you attracted to from your spouse, you are in affair.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

AND hiding it from your spouse. The minute you start doing things in secret......UH OH. If you wouldnt do it in front of your spouse but you consistantly do it behind their back with a particular person-EA.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and yes the deception is always a big sign


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> AND hiding it from your spouse. The minute you start doing things in secret......UH OH. If you wouldnt do it in front of your spouse but you consistantly do it behind their back with a particular person-EA.


Absolutely..and telling your spouse that this person is a "friend". So you always tell your friend that you love them and have them tell you that they can't wait until they move over here and live the rest of their life with you. 

As well she would mark each month of the "anniversary of when the met"...stupid *****..he is married to someone else!!!!!!

Not my definition of a "friend".


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes a EA is terrible,it does sap the sanity out of you,your WS is enjoying the "high".Getting over a EA is bad enough but a PA to me is a lot worse,to me thats it,your spouse has then given everything over to the AP and does't think or care about passing a STD along to their spouse.I always did think a EA would be fairly easy to get over,boy was I wrong but still a PA does much more damage in my eyes.Everyone looks at this differenty though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

calvin said:


> Yes a EA is terrible,it does sap the sanity out of you,your WS is enjoying the "high".Getting over a EA is bad enough but a PA to me is a lot worse,to me thats it,your spouse has then given everything over to the AP and does't think or care about passing a STD along to their spouse.I always did think a EA would be fairly easy to get over,boy was I wrong but still a PA does much more damage in my eyes.Everyone looks at this differenty though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I do have to admit..if H had also had a PA with her that would have taken me over the edge..there is not way I would forgive him for that.

TO me I kind of knew that state of our marriage leading up to his EA..as well due to the side effects that he had from medication..I knew that he felt no romantic feelings for her in that way however he enjoyed the ego boost and the flattery that she gave him....

I think he realizes now that what he did has him at a very low point right now...and he realizes that it was not just innocent chit chat as he put it.

He tried to brush it off to the MC and he said to him..wait a minute..you might be saying it was nothing but it was something and you have to acknowledge that fact.


----------



## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

Gabriel, you are 1000 % correct. It is tough to have those feelings... Feels like a ragdoll thrown to the wind. If someone is being cheated on and there is no emotional pain, there must not be any love so to speak as 'we' the majority conceive 'love' to be. Revenge affairs are of no help, only more pain when all becomes finalized. The term "Feel like f**king someone else today!" just is in no way correct. And the hurt and pain experienced by the innocent spouse are tremendous. Indeed, 'devastated' is the word of the day when we discover our significant other is cheating... again, like a ragdoll thrown to the wind. These are storms of the heart, mind and soul. Talk about marriage... and mixed with infidelity, we are talking about storms of the heart! Much larger and more devastating than any tornado or hurricane to the innocent spouse! Said and done!!!


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I've also noticed how the AP will lie and build themselves up and make them out to be something their not,like how much $ they make,all the good deeds they have done,what a great listener they are.My WW thought the OM was the the greatest,now that she is out of the fog she see's him for what he really is,a loser,womanizer and just a d!ck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## better than before (Aug 3, 2011)

It is the giving of their hearts that hurts so much- it is all painful, but knowing he said I love you to AP is horrible to process!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I alway think EA means you tell them u love them..its all about being "in love" big difference than just having a male-female friendship but that is my opinion..I know alot of you will disagree with me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> I alway think EA means you tell them u love them..its all about being "in love" big difference than just having a male-female friendship but that is my opinion..I know alot of you will disagree with me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


sometimes its not so much that you tell them, its that you SHOW them and at your BS's expense everytime. My H didnt tell her but I think it probably showed.

And when I say its not so much that you "tell them" its b/c werent the WS, in fact, saying the same thing(I love you) to their BS- AS they betrayed them? So to me saying "I love you" doesnt mean as much as showing it in your time, attention and effort.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

couple said:


> I also struggle with the concept of the EA. I don't really think I know exactly what it is. Don't get me wrong, I do think that it's real. however, what is crossing the line with an EA? Is a 'crush' an EA? Is it a matter that he or she would do something physical if it weren't for being in another relationship? Clearly there are 'major' and 'minor' EAs but what is is major and what is minor?
> 
> My problem is that most people who are married for decades will encounter someone that they 'like' or for which there is mutual chemistry. It's not unusual that they do stupid things like decide to go out for a drink when they know that there is some attraction there. Flirting then ensues and chemistry grows. Is this kind of thing an EA? It's certainly not innocent behavior but is it an EA to carry on a little like this?
> 
> ...


An EA is kind of hard to describe, isn't it? 

Secrecy has a lot to do with affairs, period. So if you start to hide any communication from your partner with someone you feel attracted to emotionally/physically, then that is a definite sign.

Having had one I will say that to me to me, an EA is "feelings." 

I know a lot of people don't think an EA is that big of a deal or anything really, but it absolutely is. If your mind starts focusing on someone else romantically, it is a major majorly big deal and it's detrimental to your relationship/marriage.


----------



## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

I honestly dont know how it turned into a EA for MH, he said they just talked about how their day was and what they were doing at the moment. I do know she gave him oral every time and they had sex 2x and he gave her oral 1x. They exchanged I love yous(he did not say it all the time just sometimes or so he says) and I miss yous over text and cant wait to see you again. Lots of sexting too.
Maybe it was never a EA just PA right away dirty hoe she is.


----------



## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

EA completely destroyed my marriage. It was with a man she drove 20 hours to see a few weeks before we met. It took me months when I first met her to win her over and every year or so I would catch her talking to him. Flirting, talking about the past (they had a 5 month long distance relationship followed by 2 week physical prior to meeting me).

An ex is an ex, but when they are on the internet and the stbx keeps getting back in contact with them over the years and not taking any solid credit for the damage it caused (I'm the stalker) then yes, it causes serious damage.

I did not trust her for obvious reasons, she would lie about it, try to cover it up. All different variations and forms of communication. She did not trust me because I would dig until I found the information.

She started to form quick bonds with anyone online that would treat her nicely and it became way too much for me and her. It consumed my marriage, and caused so many other problems.

Even after 7 years together and 2 children, she never got the picture.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I believe this might be one of those, "until you've lived it, you can't really know the answer" questions. My H had an EA/PA, but I thought it was only an EA for the first few hours of d-day. The EA alone was enough to devastate me beyond anything I could've ever imagined. The realization that you are not loved the way you thought you were rips out your heart. To look at the person you married and see a stranger is horrifying. Then to question your own judgement for being blind to it is debilitating. This just from the EA. Then I found out about the PA. I think it's what finally put me in a state of shock. I suddenly felt calm and simply observed that we were getting a divorce. I no longer felt like me. At that moment, I felt lke a stranger in my own body.

Whether it's an EA or a PA or combination of the two, the one that throws you into the emotional abyss I described above is the one that is worse...for you. Every person will have a different answer because each threshold depends on individual life experience and personal emotional needs. I never would've guessed that an EA would be worse than a PA for me, turns out it's the harder one to get over.

FYI...we didn't divorce and are still in R. Over a year later it's the EA that has more reminders, like a song they shared pops on the radio and gives me a kick in the gut. The PA portion doesn't pop into my head as often. Go figure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

A PA, I was always able to handle and snip in the bud. An EA (even if it has no physical aspect) is more damaging and has much deeper roots. To me an EA means "look honey, i'm packing my bags".


----------



## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Well Well Well.. let me see if I can say this in a way that I have come to understand it myself... EA or PA.. well lets take a look into the what really occurs during both shall we????


Were was husband/wife at or doing when so and so took place, why was he late so and so night.. when an emergency came up, o yeah sure he showed up.. but what was the hold up? was the family put on hold so he could spend a few more minutes with OP... Yeah maybe I could had managed certain situtations on my own, but it would had been a whole lot easier if my husband was there.. But hey no biggy I just covered for both parents or went the extra mile bc he was "TIED" up with work Maybe or traffic or had to make a pit stop and got held up unexpectedly, or well just couldnt possibly get out of the meeting that wasnt scheduled.. Or well had to wait for traffic in the parking lot to clear bc to many acciendts has been happening and well they are detouring traffic so no more acceidents happen so yeah it took and extra long time to get home, so NO he couldnt be home in time to get our kid off the school bus.. NO worries I will leave work and do it.. Hey I am mom.. Dad is way to busy to get his kid off the bus so they dont take kid back to school.. O wait dont worry I will call into to work tonight I understand that boss called you into work, you gotta keep your job, but I dont? You mean you lost your phone today? Thats why I couldnt remind you of the meeting at school for our child, dont worry I went alone, but good thing you found it 6 hours later.. that was a close call there pheww.... 

SO I could go on and on and on and on and on..


*The point is, PA or EA.. when you start to put your spouse or your children in a second priorty category the there is a problem.. 

*When it becomes more important to you to make up lies and excuses to spend that extra time with another person than with your own spouse there is a problem.. 

*When you set back and your spouse is jumping threw hoops that are blazing fire to keep the life you both built together from crashing and burning but your unsuspecting spouse thinks that you are busy with work or somthing that is actually productive in your life/family a life/family that you chose to help creat there is a problem

*When your main concern is munipliating ever aspect of your marriage to "CONNECT" with any one else besides your spouse there is a problem

* When you stop meeting your spouses emotional of physical needs because your to drained from meeting somone elses there is a problem..

* When spouse needs ME time because stress is to much, dont worry the other spouse understand STRESS is a booger, take your time enjoy yourself.. I will rearrange everything in my life and take on even more responsibility because well I care about you and dont want life getting to much for you go ahead take some time relax enjoy yourself your a good, hard working, loving husband/father eveyone needs a break a little me time RIGHT.. well Maybe Ill get mine sooner or later but I am going to put my spouses needs first becaue I understand I love him.. BUT come to find out, me time what cheat time weather EA OR PA.. go ahead put more on spoused shoulders so you can play, its fine spouse doesnt suspect a thing, but spouse care so it OK.. there is a problem

* When NOTHING in your life seems to be as important to you as getting the extra few moment with your affair parter either a heart to heart chat cause no one can understand you or feel your emotional needs like AP (ex..EA ) OR a quick romp in the back of a car (ex..PA) no matter what you say/do to ANYONE else, wife/husband or kids or job or family or heck lets face it LIFE.. hey life can get tough it can be put on hold for a little while RIGHT? always tommorrow RIGHT? We ALL KNOW THATS PROMISED TO US RIGHT? no need to worry.. WHY? yeah unsuspecting spouse is jumping threw hoops to hold it all together well shoot lifes hard were in this together RIGHT, spouse gots it covered.. besides our Ws would be here/there if they could RIGHT?? We will talk to them later gotta be eachothers emotional and mental support, must had been a doozy of a day for them poor thing, I hope I made it easier on my spouse.. but later doesnt come because your spouse is to emotionally spent on someone else.. there is a problem.

* And All I got to say about if you got childeren, well THEY WONT GROW UP WHILE YOUR NOT LOOKING, dont worry all the lieing and betrayel and stolen moment wont amount to much will they, until you turn around and those moments has turned into weeks/months/ years....hmmmmm what happened to the relationship you once had with your kids, oh thats right you had to devote all your free and any stolen time you could get for your affair partner.. there is a problem

*** END NOTE***

Yeah, there is alot to both, EA and PA.. both take away alot form your spouse,kids, family and yourself.. When it all comes out in the open and you turn around and the fog evaporates.. well what are your really left with... A broken family in which alot of time and effort will it take to mend.. if you connect with another person and give them your time/energy/love/personal moment/ thoughts/ feelings/or body etc... and bond with them either EA or PA and take away from other aspects of your life it is cheating your spouse. And if you have kids and you have become less active in the mother/father role you are cheating your kids out of a parental loving bond they were born into and they deserve. If you have decreased/withheld/or given to another... on any level be it emotional,physical, mental,love,support be it monetary or emotional or be it your time/energy from your husband/wife.. its cheating. There are many aspects of cheating as I am trying to point out.. But it all comes down to what ELEMENT of another persons life are they being Cheated out of.... SEX or EMOTIONAL.. seems to me if anyone gets/gives any less than there 100% undivided self, commitment, love or ones emotional side, but instead makes moments in life that are PHONY, Deceitful,hurtful and completley misrepresent your true self to another, be it your spouse,child or family..you can rest assure that somone along the way will be cheated out of somthing significant,special at one point in time, was very beloved, cherished and treasured .. THERFORE... EA or PA doesnt matter IT IS CHEATING..

all I can say, can anyone say that in no shape or form at any given time.. was not any one involved directly or indirectly (family, spouse, child) be it EA or PA not ever cheated out of somthing.. REALLY.. I think not,, it is cheating.. PLAIN AND SIMPLE..


----------



## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Survey say's...they both taste like ****!


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)




----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

ilgitano said:


> An EA (even if it has no physical aspect) is more damaging and has much deeper roots.


:iagree:


----------



## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

Agree with pretty much everyone's said so far...and I'd like to add:

No way in hell is another woman going to enjoy the emotional benefits of being in a relationship with my boyfriend/husband, and have to do none of the work that comes along with it!


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

galian84 said:


> Agree with pretty much everyone's said so far...and I'd like to add:
> 
> No way in hell is another woman going to enjoy the emotional benefits of being in a relationship with my boyfriend/husband, and have to do none of the work that comes along with it!


Love it...

That is what I said to H yesterday...she only saw the good side of you...I am the one that does the majority of the housework, cooking and cleaning, financial stuff, etc. etc. She saw the side of you that I saw when he was courting me....not the side that you see after you spend 24 years with someone.


----------

