# Boss Lady



## coronado71

I feel like my take charge executive wife is treating me like an employee and I’m not sure how to handle it.

*Short version: *I’m a high school English teacher who usually works at a camp all summer but can’t this year due to family commitments. I have secured a job teaching a one week course in July (for about $1200). I’ve also applied for another virtual teaching job, and asked a contractor friend if I could help out with kitchen demolitions. I planned to refinish the kitchen cabinets and reseal the deck in the interim. Today, in regards to these summer plans, my wife said, “I’d like to solidify a plan straight away…” Why is it so important to her that _we_ need to solidify a plan for what _I’ll_ do this summer? I get paid 12 months, she makes more than double my salary and we aren’t desperate for the modest money I’ll likely make doing summer work (though of course it’ll help). It feels like she is arbitrarily taking charge and I have little recourse. I don’t know how to respond. I need perspective, wisdom, and help! 

*Backstory *(if interested): 
My wife of 19 yrs. is a classic woman executive. She’s worked exceptionally hard for a seat at the table at which she still isn’t always heard. She’s responsible for a lot in the office and she takes charge of her staff to ensure it all gets done. Taking charge is kind of her thing, the kids and me, at the family reunion, in the grocery store with strangers. She’s most comfortable when she’s in control (can be _very_ uncomfortable when she’s not). Her impatience also has a hair-trigger. I tend to stay in my lane outside of work. I have no desire to insert myself or take charge of things that aren’t directly in my purview. I also suffer with depression and anxiety that often limits my productivity at home. This is a consistent source of friction for us. She feels overwhelmed working full time and “doing everything for the business of our family” I don’t take enough initiative, don’t complete enough tasks, don’t follow-up/through enough or in a timely enough fashion. She is often very critical of and sometimes insulting as a result. I’m often very defensive and feel like her employee. Our marriage has almost always been tenuous. Resentment lingers in the air like cat pee at our house—don’t always notice the smell but it’s always there. I’m in behavioral therapy and take medication. I’m getting better at my part, but it’s a process.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

coronado71 said:


> I feel like my take charge executive wife is treating me like an employee and I’m not sure how to handle it.
> 
> *Short version: *I’m a high school English teacher who usually works at a camp all summer but can’t this year due to family commitments. I have secured a job teaching a one week course in July (for about $1200). I’ve also applied for another virtual teaching job, and asked a contractor friend if I could help out with kitchen demolitions. I planned to refinish the kitchen cabinets and reseal the deck in the interim. Today, in regards to these summer plans, my wife said, “I’d like to solidify a plan straight away…” Why is it so important to her that _we_ need to solidify a plan for what _I’ll_ do this summer? I get paid 12 months, she makes more than double my salary and we aren’t desperate for the modest money I’ll likely make doing summer work (though of course it’ll help). It feels like she is arbitrarily taking charge and I have little recourse. I don’t know how to respond. I need perspective, wisdom, and help!
> 
> *Backstory *(if interested):
> My wife of 19 yrs. is a classic woman executive. She’s worked exceptionally hard for a seat at the table at which she still isn’t always heard. She’s responsible for a lot in the office and she takes charge of her staff to ensure it all gets done. Taking charge is kind of her thing, the kids and me, at the family reunion, in the grocery store with strangers. She’s most comfortable when she’s in control (can be _very_ uncomfortable when she’s not). Her impatience also has a hair-trigger. I tend to stay in my lane outside of work. I have no desire to insert myself or take charge of things that aren’t directly in my purview. I also suffer with depression and anxiety that often limits my productivity at home. This is a consistent source of friction for us. She feels overwhelmed working full time and “doing everything for the business of our family” I don’t take enough initiative, don’t complete enough tasks, don’t follow-up/through enough or in a timely enough fashion. She is often very critical of and sometimes insulting as a result. I’m often very defensive and feel like her employee. Our marriage has almost always been tenuous. Resentment lingers in the air like cat pee at our house—don’t always notice the smell but it’s always there. I’m in behavioral therapy and take medication. I’m getting better at my part, but it’s a process.


Remember you're a husband and not a minion. Your W's self image at work isn't a license to try and be a dictator with her H.

Good friendly communication is called for and that's ok.


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## GusPolinski

How old are your kids?


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## D0nnivain

Just tell her your plan is to play it by ear. Just because she wants a plan doesn't mean you have to give her bullet points


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## coronado71

GusPolinski said:


> How old are your kids?


18 and 15


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## coronado71

D0nnivain said:


> Just tell her your plan is to play it by ear. Just because she wants a plan doesn't mean you have to give her bullet points


That would likely trigger Armageddon.


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## coronado71

D0nnivain said:


> Just tell her your plan is to play it by ear. Just because she wants a plan doesn't mean you have to give her bullet points





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Remember you're a husband and not a minion. Your W's self image at work isn't a license to try and be a dictator with her H.
> 
> Good friendly communication is called for and that's ok.


If we were good at good friendly communication I wouldn’t be desperately seeking advice here.


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## DownByTheRiver

coronado71 said:


> I feel like my take charge executive wife is treating me like an employee and I’m not sure how to handle it.
> 
> *Short version: *I’m a high school English teacher who usually works at a camp all summer but can’t this year due to family commitments. I have secured a job teaching a one week course in July (for about $1200). I’ve also applied for another virtual teaching job, and asked a contractor friend if I could help out with kitchen demolitions. I planned to refinish the kitchen cabinets and reseal the deck in the interim. Today, in regards to these summer plans, my wife said, “I’d like to solidify a plan straight away…” Why is it so important to her that _we_ need to solidify a plan for what _I’ll_ do this summer? I get paid 12 months, she makes more than double my salary and we aren’t desperate for the modest money I’ll likely make doing summer work (though of course it’ll help). It feels like she is arbitrarily taking charge and I have little recourse. I don’t know how to respond. I need perspective, wisdom, and help!
> 
> *Backstory *(if interested):
> My wife of 19 yrs. is a classic woman executive. She’s worked exceptionally hard for a seat at the table at which she still isn’t always heard. She’s responsible for a lot in the office and she takes charge of her staff to ensure it all gets done. Taking charge is kind of her thing, the kids and me, at the family reunion, in the grocery store with strangers. She’s most comfortable when she’s in control (can be _very_ uncomfortable when she’s not). Her impatience also has a hair-trigger. I tend to stay in my lane outside of work. I have no desire to insert myself or take charge of things that aren’t directly in my purview. I also suffer with depression and anxiety that often limits my productivity at home. This is a consistent source of friction for us. She feels overwhelmed working full time and “doing everything for the business of our family” I don’t take enough initiative, don’t complete enough tasks, don’t follow-up/through enough or in a timely enough fashion. She is often very critical of and sometimes insulting as a result. I’m often very defensive and feel like her employee. Our marriage has almost always been tenuous. Resentment lingers in the air like cat pee at our house—don’t always notice the smell but it’s always there. I’m in behavioral therapy and take medication. I’m getting better at my part, but it’s a process.


Why do you have a problem sharing with your wife what you plan to do this summer? Seems like a no-brainer to me.


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## Andy1001

I’d have a serious problem with your wife if she worked for me and if her attitude at work matches her attitude at home then I’m not surprised she’s not being heard. She sounds like the proverbial ball buster. 
You don’t realise it but she’s grinding you down. It’s time for you to take a stand here because otherwise you are going to end up with serious mental health issues.


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## TexasMom1216

My H and I have to remind each other that we are NOT at work and we need to not use a bossy tone with each other. I am not his assistant and he is not my employee. No one is anyone's boss and using that tone creates resentment. But when things are tense or you're in a bad mood, you can slip and be rude. It's important NOT to do that and to apologize when it happens.


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## ccpowerslave

Maybe you could try this:

“Hey sweet cheeks, the movie is I Know What You Did LAST Summer not THIS Summer. Now why don’t you run along and maybe grab me a cold beer from the fridge. Thanks hon!”

Ok maybe not…

Actually instead of employee her treatment sounds more like a mother nagging a son.

I solved my problem by moving out and largely ignoring her.

So you could also do that.

Another possibility is you go shock and awe. The other way to get rid of someone asking you to do something is to run circles around them and destroy them. So let’s say they want A, B, and C. You do those, but then you also do all the other letters of the alphabet at the same time and ask for feedback on them because now you’re blocked. Bossy nags hate this, especially if you bury them deep because they’re already so busy! This works maybe 99% of the time but it won’t work on the 1% that are truly exceptional. They’ll bury you back but twice as bad. I’m guessing your wife doesn’t fall into the 1%.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

coronado71 said:


> If we were good at good friendly communication I wouldn’t be desperately seeking advice here.


So, you've just provided an example of your defensive or combative conversational strategy.

Don't continue that approach as a general rule with TAM or your W. Neither will be productive. 

There is a lot of support here if you have the ability to discuss without hostility.


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## Jamieboy

Are you happy with your wife? Does she bring you joy as well as the demands?


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## coronado71

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Remember you're a husband and not a minion. Your W's self image at work isn't a license to try and be a dictator with her H.
> 
> Good friendly communication is called for and that's ok.





DownByTheRiver said:


> Why do you have a problem sharing with your wife what you plan to do this summer? Seems like a no-brainer to me.


I don’t have a problem sharing. I have a problem convincing her the plan is viable, valuable, respectable, reasonable…


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## Tex X

coronado71 said:


> Taking charge is kind of her thing, the kids and me, at the family reunion, in the grocery store with strangers. She’s most comfortable when she’s in control (can be _very_ uncomfortable when she’s not). Her impatience also has a hair-trigger. I tend to stay in my lane outside of work. I have no desire to insert myself or take charge of things that aren’t directly in my purview. I also suffer with depression and anxiety that often limits my productivity at home. This is a consistent source of friction for us. She feels overwhelmed working full time and “doing everything for the business of our family” I don’t take enough initiative, don’t complete enough tasks, don’t follow-up/through enough or in a timely enough fashion. She is often very critical of and sometimes insulting as a result. I’m often very defensive and feel like her employee.


A couple of things don't add up here. You say she's most comfortable when she's in control yet she constantly complains that she is overwhelmed 'doing everything for the business of our family'. By your own admission you 'stay in your own lane' and avoid taking charge. Your wife complains that you don't do enough and you don't complete or follow through on tasks. Am I missing something here? Like maybe she doesn't really want to be in charge all the time at home? She probably feels like she has to because nobody else will.


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## Prodigal

coronado71 said:


> That would likely trigger Armageddon.


Of course it would. So you'll cower ad she'll continue to control. Until, and unless, you are willing to face her ire and stand up to her, the dynamic will continue. If she's not going to change, it's incumbent on you to change. 

As it stands, your marriage sounds miserable to me. Have you ever considered leaving?


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## DownByTheRiver

coronado71 said:


> I don’t have a problem sharing. I have a problem convincing her the plan is viable, valuable, respectable, reasonable…


Have you talked to her to find out what she had in mind?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

coronado71 said:


> I don’t have a problem sharing. I have a problem convincing her the plan is viable, valuable, respectable, reasonable…


That's a tough spot. It will help your whole situation if when you have a plan that works for you, just share that once with the W and move on. 
I'll assume you're not excluding her as you're creating plans that work. 
But I sense it will be hard for you to stand firm on what you think is good overall for both even if it's not 100% what she wants.

Emphasis on sharing plan then standing firm, don't have to keep rehashing. The rehashing over and over even if she keeps bringing it up will only worsen things.

Compromise happens when both parties don't get everything they want but enough.

Hang in there. Not being her employee but a H and taking a stand will bring you the benefits you want.


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## Mybabysgotit

coronado71 said:


> If we were good at good friendly communication I wouldn’t be desperately seeking advice here.


Have you ever put your foot down and just said "hey babe, I don't feel like we are a team here. I almost feel like you're my boss. This isn't what I signed up for when I married you"....then see what she says. 

But you have to have some kind of a backbone here.


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## coronado71

D0nnivain said:


> Just tell her your plan is to play it by ear. Just because she wants a plan doesn't mean you have to give her bullet points


Playing it by ear is not a viable option.


Tex X said:


> A couple of things don't add up here. You say she's most comfortable when she's in control yet she constantly complains that she is overwhelmed 'doing everything for the business of our family'. By your own admission you 'stay in your own lane' and avoid taking charge. Your wife complains that you don't do enough and you don't complete or follow through on tasks. Am I missing something here? Like maybe she doesn't really want to be in charge all the time at home? She probably feels like she has to because nobody else will.


Yes. She has mentioned that she’s in charge by default although she doesn’t respond well to not being in charge. When I do things in a way she wouldn’t she says, “I knew I should have just done it myself”


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## coronado71

Andy1001 said:


> I’d have a serious problem with your wife if she worked for me and if her attitude at work matches her attitude at home then I’m not surprised she’s not being heard. She sounds like the proverbial ball buster.
> You don’t realise it but she’s grinding you down. It’s time for you to take a stand here because otherwise you are going to end up with serious mental health issues.


First, there’s anecdotal evidence that the boys club executive team generally doesn’t listen to women. Her ideas have put into action when repeated by male colleagues. That said, I agree that I need to take a stand in order to gain some balance in the power dynamic.


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## sokillme

Call her on it, be strong and forceful. But also polite and respectful. See how she reacts. The point it don't be afraid of your wife. 

I might say "listen stop talking to me that way please, I am your husband not one of your employees." 

That's it. Assuming she cares she will stop.

As far as your summer plan, tell her what you wrote here, if she wants more details tell her you are not prepared to tell her anymore at this time, but detains will be forthcoming when they are available. If she insists on treating you like and employee then I suggest you set up boundaries and treat her like you would a boss. You might also ask her what problem she is trying to solve so you can help her.

All that being said, if your wishy washy-ness for lack of a better term is causing her stress then you should also step it up. My wife (also an executive by the way) is very much like yours. Now I also have a high stress job and have been just as financially successful as she has but I am much more laid back at home. I like you will let her run things that she would obsess and try to micromanage if I was in control, for instance she handles most of the bills because she worries about them. I was perfectly capable of doing that before I met her.

Anyway my point is, there is a happy medium that you will need to reach, it may involve you being a little more organized and providing her with enough information to help her relax. This is a part of being married. She needs to understand that there are times she needs to back off, and you need to understand that there is a minimum level that you need to engage. 

That's how this works.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

coronado71 said:


> Playing it by ear is not a viable option.
> 
> Yes. She has mentioned that she’s in charge by default although she doesn’t respond well to not being in charge. When I do things in a way she wouldn’t she says, “I knew I should have just done it myself”


Time to ignore her and go do something else. You don't have to respond to every word she says. Don't correct her, don't get into a debate, just ignore. 

Kiss her and tell her you're heading out to go fishing or anything. Don't be ugly just let her words hang. Don't ever bring that whatever topic up again.
Do that enough and she'll recognize the change. Remember your not being mad or giving a sharp retort, just totally ignore her rude sentences. If she never gets it, that will tell you more about the relationship.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

coronado71 said:


> First, there’s anecdotal evidence that the boys club executive team generally doesn’t listen to women. Her ideas have put into action when repeated by male colleagues. That said, I agree that I need to take a stand in order to gain some balance in the power dynamic.


You keep mentioning her work situation like you're making excuses for her. You should stop that thinking, it has nothing to do with solving the problem between you and her. Nothing.


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## coronado71

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> So, you've just provided an example of your defensive or combative conversational strategy.
> 
> Don't continue that approach as a general rule with TAM or your W. Neither will be productive.
> 
> There is a lot of support here if you have the ability to discuss without hostility.


TAM? Did I come off hostile and combative? I was going for self-effacing. I was saying that communication isn’t always easy or friendly which is why I’m seeking guidance.


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## coronado71

ccpowerslave said:


> Maybe you could try this:
> 
> “Hey sweet cheeks, the movie is I Know What You Did LAST Summer not THIS Summer. Now why don’t you run along and maybe grab me a cold beer from the fridge. Thanks hon!”
> 
> Ok maybe not…
> 
> Actually instead of employee her treatment sounds more like a mother nagging a son.
> 
> I solved my problem by moving out and largely ignoring her.
> 
> So you could also do that.
> 
> Another possibility is you go shock and awe. The other way to get rid of someone asking you to do something is to run circles around them and destroy them. So let’s say they want A, B, and C. You do those, but then you also do all the other letters of the alphabet at the same time and ask for feedback on them because now you’re blocked. Bossy nags hate this, especially if you bury them deep because they’re already so busy! This works maybe 99% of the time but it won’t work on the 1% that are truly exceptional. They’ll bury you back but twice as bad. I’m guessing your wife doesn’t fall into the 1%.


I’m not 100% certain I’m following your metaphor. Are you saying I should kill her with accomplishments? Do more than she asks for?


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## DownByTheRiver

You said you suffer from anxiety and depression which is keeping you from doing things. Time to deal with that. Sounds like she's been forced to take charge to me. You should be a partnership, but it sounds to me like you avoid that but then resent her when she is capable and steps up to lead. I know it's hard to deal with things when you have depression, so go into therapy. It's hard to get motivated to do a lot of things. Anxiety can very often be quickly dealt with through tested medications. You might find that you are the tire that's going flat on your family car and she's having to carry the load. You're lucky she can and will. You need to get into therapy and just work on yourself and stop stewing about her and her career. I bet she'd feel better just knowing you were working on yourself that way.


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## coronado71

sokillme said:


> Call her on it, be strong and forceful. But also polite and respectful. See how she reacts. The point it don't be afraid of your wife.
> 
> I might say "listen stop talking to me that way please, I am your husband not one of your employees."
> 
> That's it. Assuming she cares she will stop.
> 
> As far as your summer plan, tell her what you wrote here, if she wants more details tell her you are not prepared to tell her anymore at this time, but detains will be forthcoming when they are available. If she insists on treating you like and employee then I suggest you set up boundaries and treat her like you would a boss. You might also ask her what problem she is trying to solve so you can help her.
> 
> All that being said, if your wishy washy-ness for lack of a better term is causing her stress then you should also step it up. My wife (also an executive by the way) is very much like yours. Now I also have a high stress job and have been just as financially successful as she has but I am much more laid back at home. I like you will let her run things that she would obsess and try to micromanage if I was in control, for instance she handles most of the bills because she worries about them. I was perfectly capable of doing that before I met her.
> 
> Anyway my point is, there is a happy medium that you will need to reach, it may involve you being a little more organized and providing her with enough information to help her relax. This is a part of being married. She needs to understand that there are times she needs to back off, and you need to understand that there is a minimum level that you need to engage.
> 
> That's how this works.


I agree that I need to be more proactive and give more information that will help her be more at ease.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

coronado71 said:


> TAM? Did I come off hostile and combative? I was going for self-effacing. I was saying that communication isn’t always easy or friendly which is why I’m seeking guidance.


If more self effacing my bad. 

That's still a thing to consider, think about how things may come across, even to W. We all say things that may not be received as intended.

It's important to think about what folks are sharing with you here, to be more firm on things you have going on. And avoiding the limitless debates with W. That hurts a relationship in so many ways if everything is always a debate.

It may seem contradictory but standing firm and letting things happen will help so many situations.


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## coronado71

DownByTheRiver said:


> You said you suffer from anxiety and depression which is keeping you from doing things. Time to deal with that. Sounds like she's been forced to take charge to me. You should be a partnership, but it sounds to me like you avoid that but then resent her when she is capable and steps up to lead. I know it's hard to deal with things when you have depression, so go into therapy. It's hard to get motivated to do a lot of things. Anxiety can very often be quickly dealt with through tested medications. You might find that you are the tire that's going flat on your family car and she's having to carry the load. You're lucky she can and will. You need to get into therapy and just work on yourself and stop stewing about her and her career. I bet she'd feel better just knowing you were working on yourself that way.


I mentioned in the original post that I am in therapy and take medication. I’m working diligently and making progress but it’s a process. I don’t think I’m stewing about her and her career I think I’m affronted her demanding tone.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

coronado71 said:


> I mentioned in the original post that I am in therapy and take medication. I’m working diligently and making progress but it’s a process. I don’t think I’m stewing about her and her career I think I’m affronted her demanding tone.


It's ok if you ignore her when she's going off on a tangent. That's ok.


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## Tex X

coronado71 said:


> Yes. She has mentioned that she’s in charge by default although she doesn’t respond well to not being in charge. When I do things in a way she wouldn’t she says, “I knew I should have just done it myself”


It sounds like she doesn't have much respect for you. The next time she says something like that you just need to say something like "well it is done now", and then just walk away. When she sees it has no affect on you, she will eventually stop doing it. At some point very soon (like today) you do need to let her know that you will not tolerate being spoken to like that by your spouse. This is 19 years in the making, so this is your status quo. It will be hard to change the dynamic, but you both have work to do.


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## ccpowerslave

coronado71 said:


> I’m not 100% certain I’m following your metaphor. Are you saying I should kill her with accomplishments? Do more than she asks for?


Yes.

Whatever her expectation is for you, do 3x that. Ideally you want to have literally done it 3x and then make her go through it in detail and pick which of the three plans she prefers. If you do this consistently then you’ll improve your skills at these things and she’ll likely also stop asking because she’s not going to want to sort through the output.

When you respond to someone asking you to do something both with the work and then a follow up task for the person asking, it’s extremely annoying for them. It takes a real obnoxious stubborn person to step up to the challenge and un-block that person repeatedly and most will quickly give up their requests.


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## DownByTheRiver

coronado71 said:


> I mentioned in the original post that I am in therapy and take medication. I’m working diligently and making progress but it’s a process. I don’t think I’m stewing about her and her career I think I’m affronted her demanding tone.


According to what you say, she's having to deal with disrespect from men at work, and then she's coming home to resentment. It would be a miracle if she wasn't carrying a load of resentment herself. If you're avoidant on some things, I imagine that places her in a position of having to talk AT you whether you want to discuss something or not. After all, she is married to you. It doesn't sound like you're volunteering much in the way of communicating or planning and you're purposely staying out of things. If she's the more proactive one and you're the one trying to avoid getting in the middle of things, what choice does she have? You don't really expect her to come at you all warm and fuzzy when you've been avoiding communicating and trying to basically duck out of lots of situations, do you? She has a right to know what your plans for the summer are. If you really aren't trying to make plans and just want the time off or whatever, tell her. Who knows, maybe she'd like to go on vacation with you. 

I'm glad you're in therapy, and I know it's a process.


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## TexasMom1216

Just based on what is posted here, it sounds like she felt she had to take charge because she couldn't count on you and she resents that. That is why she says mean, dismissive and counterproductive things like "I should have just done it myself." 

I would imagine there is an image of you that you want to see reflected back in her eyes. You want her to see you certain way, as her partner and friend and husband. As her equal. So be that man. Like @ccpowerslave says, BE THAT MAN. Do what needs to be done. Step up, take care of things before she has to point out the things that need to be done. You want authority, take it. As my husband told me when I was being bullied at work, put your **** on the table and take charge (best career advice I have ever gotten, by the way). Proactively become the man you want her to see you as and her behavior will change. "Is this done?" she asks. "Yep," you say on your way to the next thing. No begging for approval, no questions, no opportunity for her to pick apart what you did. You did it, it's done and that is the end of it. (It's key that it really BE the end of it though, you have to actually take care of the things and not just say you did, because she will check and if you don't she won't respect you. But I'm sure you knew that, it probably goes without saying, I just added it in the interest of being thorough.)

Alpha males don't need women to make them "feel" like men. They ARE men. They don't need women to hold themselves back or pretend to be stupid and helpless and unable to deal with life and "I just need a Daddy." Alpha males don't WANT a woman like that, they want a strong, capable adult who isn't following them but is standing shoulder to shoulder with them in life. If you want her to see you as a hero, BE A HERO. I'm guessing it's what she wants anyway, and she will be grateful and relieved when you do it.


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## *Deidre*

Does your wife seem envious that you may have “the summer off?” I’m envious, so maybe she is. 😂

Seriously though, I have a friend who’s a teacher and she has shared with me that her husband argues more than usual during the summer months, when she has off. Could be something to discuss with your wife.


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## ccpowerslave

coronado71 said:


> I mentioned in the original post that I am in therapy and take medication. I’m working diligently and making progress but it’s a process. I don’t think I’m stewing about her and her career I think I’m affronted her demanding tone.


Is her demand unreasonable or just the delivery of it (tone)?

In your background it sounds like she doesn’t think you’re doing a great job of your end on maintaining the household. Is she right, or is she unreasonable?

If she’s right well that’s a simple answer. Do better.

If she’s off base that’s a different problem.


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## coronado71

DownByTheRiver said:


> According to what you say, she's having to deal with disrespect from men at work, and then she's coming home to resentment. It would be a miracle if she wasn't carrying a load of resentment herself. If you're avoidant on some things, I imagine that places her in a position of having to talk AT you whether you want to discuss something or not. After all, she is married to you. It doesn't sound like you're volunteering much in the way of communicating or planning and you're purposely staying out of things. If she's the more proactive one and you're the one trying to avoid getting in the middle of things, what choice does she have? You don't really expect her to come at you all warm and fuzzy when you've been avoiding communicating and trying to basically duck out of lots of situations, do you? She has a right to know what your plans for the summer are. If you really aren't trying to make plans and just want the time off or whatever, tell her. Who knows, maybe she'd like to go on vacation with you.
> 
> I'm glad you're in therapy, and I know it's a process.


I think you may have missed a few things in this thread, or perhaps I haven't communicated clearly enough. When I said I mind my business I meant I don't seek opportunities to butt in or take charge of other people and their affairs (unless it's necessary). I'm not in charge of monkeys that aren't in my circus if you will. So no, I don't avoid communicating with my wife or duck out of any situations. Of course, we are accountable to each other, and absolutely she should know what my summer plans are, which is why I told her. She apparently didn't approve of/appreciate my ideas and responded, "I'd like us to solidify a plan straightaway" which rubbed me. Why do _we _need to solidify a plan when _I _just told you what my plan is?

That said, I agree that she is frustrated with me and harbors some resentment about carrying much of the load in family business (bill paying, appointment making, future planning etc.). My behavioral therapist and I are developing strategies to help me take more initiative and complete more tasks. I also understand that she's under a lot of stress at work and at home but it doesn't negate my need to be treated as an equal adult and not a subordinate.


----------



## coronado71

*Deidre* said:


> Does your wife seem envious that you may have “the summer off?” I’m envious, so maybe she is. 😂
> 
> Seriously though, I have a friend who’s a teacher and she has shared with me that her husband argues more than usual during the summer months, when she has off. Could be something to discuss with your wife.


I'm certain that she's a bit envious. She's mentioned that she resents that I get home early enough in the afternoons to go to the gym or take a nap before tackling my grade book, but don't often take the initiative to take care of other business. Like remembering to return some paperwork or follow up with the accountant about our taxes etc. I'm sure my not going in to work for two months gets under her skin.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

coronado71 said:


> I think you may have missed a few things in this thread, or perhaps I haven't communicated clearly enough. When I said I mind my business I meant I don't seek opportunities to butt in or take charge of other people and their affairs (unless it's necessary). I'm not in charge of monkeys that aren't in my circus if you will. So no, I don't avoid communicating with my wife or duck out of any situations. Of course, we are accountable to each other, and absolutely she should know what my summer plans are, which is why I told her. She apparently didn't approve of/appreciate my ideas and responded, "I'd like us to solidify a plan straightaway" which rubbed me. Why do _we _need to solidify a plan when _I _just told you what my plan is?
> 
> That said, I agree that she is frustrated with me and harbors some resentment about carrying much of the load in family business (bill paying, appointment making, future planning etc.). My behavioral therapist and I are developing strategies to help me take more initiative and complete more tasks. I also understand that she's under a lot of stress at work and at home but it doesn't negate my need to be treated as an equal adult and not a subordinate.


That comment about solidifying a plan sounded more like you hadn't really nailed it down yet. I mean, nothing wrong with that if things are still in the air, but to me, that is more what it sounded like and not so much her disrespecting you. 

Keep up the good work with the behavioral therapist.


----------



## *Deidre*

coronado71 said:


> I'm certain that she's a bit envious. She's mentioned that she resents that I get home early enough in the afternoons to go to the gym or take a nap before tackling my grade book, but don't often take the initiative to take care of other business. Like remembering to return some paperwork or follow up with the accountant about our taxes etc. I'm sure my not going in to work for two months gets under her skin.


There you go. Envy is a tough thing and she sounds like she masks it by trying to control you. She might have other issues too - you both might together, but I think that’s something she has to work on otherwise she’ll keep searching for something to keep you busy so she feels better.

This is just my opinion, but does your wife respect your profession as a teacher? To me, that is what would bug me, if I were a teacher and my husband expected me to work another job during my summer vacation - unless I wanted to or we desperately needed the money. You getting a job and sticking to a “plan” should be an agreed upon thing and not something you feel obligated to do just to keep your wife happy. Just my thoughts to it.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

coronado71 said:


> I'm certain that she's a bit envious. She's mentioned that she resents that I get home early enough in the afternoons to go to the gym or take a nap before tackling my grade book, but don't often take the initiative to take care of other business. Like remembering to return some paperwork or follow up with the accountant about our taxes etc. I'm sure my not going in to work for two months gets under her skin.


Maybe suggest you two sit down once a month and make an eraser board "to do" list and then both agree to knock some of that out. I personally think everyone deserves a summer off after working hard all year, but most jobs just don't allow for that.

Since you get some of that and she doesn't and you're partners, seems to be like you have to split the difference and give her some relief over the summer as well.


----------



## farsidejunky

coronado71 said:


> That would likely trigger Armageddon.


Why are you afraid of Armageddon?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## coronado71

TexasMom1216 said:


> Just based on what is posted here, it sounds like she felt she had to take charge because she couldn't count on you and she resents that. That is why she says mean, dismissive and counterproductive things like "I should have just done it myself."
> 
> I would imagine there is an image of you that you want to see reflected back in her eyes. You want her to see you certain way, as her partner and friend and husband. As her equal. So be that man. Like @ccpowerslave says, BE THAT MAN. Do what needs to be done. Step up, take care of things before she has to point out the things that need to be done. You want authority, take it. As my husband told me when I was being bullied at work, put your **** on the table and take charge (best career advice I have ever gotten, by the way). Proactively become the man you want her to see you as and her behavior will change. "Is this done?" she asks. "Yep," you say on your way to the next thing. No begging for approval, no questions, no opportunity for her to pick apart what you did. You did it, it's done and that is the end of it. (It's key that it really BE the end of it though, you have to actually take care of the things and not just say you did, because she will check and if you don't she won't respect you. But I'm sure you knew that, it probably goes without saying, I just added it in the interest of being thorough.)
> 
> Alpha males don't need women to make them "feel" like men. They ARE men. They don't need women to hold themselves back or pretend to be stupid and helpless and unable to deal with life and "I just need a Daddy." Alpha males don't WANT a woman like that, they want a strong, capable adult who isn't following them but is standing shoulder to shoulder with them in life. If you want her to see you as a hero, BE A HERO. I'm guessing it's what she wants anyway, and she will be grateful and relieved when you do it.


From your typing fingers to God's ears! Stepping up and taking care of things has been a challenge for me and I'm constantly working on it (in therapy and intrapersonally). Sometimes I'm clueless to the expectations until after the blowup. e.g. I thought e-mailing a letter to my son's advisor was perfectly fine but she felt that was lazy and half a**ed and was furious that I thought otherwise. Other times I've procrastinated or forgotten etc. I can't control her unexpressed expectations but I can work even harder at staying on top of things. 

That said, I still don't know how to respond to the idea that my plans for working over the summer were dismissed and now _we _need to solidify new plans "straight away." Why the urgency? Why the we? What was wrong with my plans in the first place? Why do I have no autonomy in this situation?


----------



## farsidejunky

coronado71 said:


> I don’t have a problem sharing. I have a problem convincing her the plan is viable, valuable, respectable, reasonable…


You don't have to convince her of anything. 

You are enabling this situation. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky

coronado71 said:


> I mentioned in the original post that I am in therapy and take medication. I’m working diligently and making progress but it’s a process. I don’t think I’m stewing about her and her career I think I’m affronted her demanding tone.


You should be.

What you shouldn't do is cater to it. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky

coronado71 said:


> I think you may have missed a few things in this thread, or perhaps I haven't communicated clearly enough. When I said I mind my business I meant I don't seek opportunities to butt in or take charge of other people and their affairs (unless it's necessary). I'm not in charge of monkeys that aren't in my circus if you will. So no, I don't avoid communicating with my wife or duck out of any situations. Of course, we are accountable to each other, and absolutely she should know what my summer plans are, which is why I told her. She apparently didn't approve of/appreciate my ideas and responded, "I'd like us to solidify a plan straightaway" which rubbed me. Why do _we _need to solidify a plan when _I _just told you what my plan is?
> 
> That said, I agree that she is frustrated with me and harbors some resentment about carrying much of the load in family business (bill paying, appointment making, future planning etc.). My behavioral therapist and I are developing strategies to help me take more initiative and complete more tasks. I also understand that she's under a lot of stress at work and at home but it doesn't negate my need to be treated as an equal adult and not a subordinate.


"My plan is solid. What is this 'we' stuff?"

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## ccpowerslave

coronado71 said:


> That said, I still don't know how to respond to the idea that my plans for working over the summer were dismissed and now _we _need to solidify new plans "straight away." Why the urgency? Why the we? What was wrong with my plans in the first place? Why do I have no autonomy in this situation?


The scorched earth solution to this:

You know, you’re right. These plans are lacking a bit of detail.

Next Tuesday I was thinking I really need some time for myself so I’m going to go to the gym then go out to a pub with the guys and watch (insert local baseball team) day game. Then I think I’ll come home and (insert one task she likes).

Actually that sounds good I wonder if the Giants have a day game on Friday 🤔

Edit: No! It is a night game on Friday.


----------



## TexasMom1216

coronado71 said:


> That said, I still don't know how to respond to the idea that my plans for working over the summer were dismissed and now _we _need to solidify new plans "straight away." Why the urgency? Why the we? What was wrong with my plans in the first place? Why do I have no autonomy in this situation?


I am a stranger on the internet only going on what you've typed here. So keep that in mind.

It sounds like your plans for what you're going to do this summer aren't final. If they're not final and there are still outstanding questions, she's saying "we" because that's what we do in business when we're telling someone to do something they need to do and we don't want to sound like we're ordering them around. "We" here sounds to me like it means "you." It makes sense that she would want to know what you're doing, but this urgency you're talking about sounds like bubbling frustration on her part. In short, I think she was being terse with you because she's tired of being in charge of everything all alone and wants you to decide what you're doing and let her know. That particular exchange is a symptom of a larger problem, not a problem in itself. If it comes up again, you have your plans, it's under control and you'll handle it. End of story. If she wants details she can ask for them. If she's demanding and rude, honestly, tell her that. "I'm not your employee, don't talk to me like that."

It's good you're in therapy and actively trying to fix this about yourself. It sounds like you don't like it either. You'll both be happier when you're happier and more confident in yourself.


----------



## farsidejunky

coronado71 said:


> From your typing fingers to God's ears! Stepping up and taking care of things has been a challenge for me and I'm constantly working on it (in therapy and intrapersonally). Sometimes I'm clueless to the expectations until after the blowup. e.g. I thought e-mailing a letter to my son's advisor was perfectly fine but she felt that was lazy and half a**ed and was furious that I thought otherwise. Other times I've procrastinated or forgotten etc. I can't control her unexpressed expectations but I can work even harder at staying on top of things.
> 
> That said, I still don't know how to respond to the idea that my plans for working over the summer were dismissed and now _we _need to solidify new plans "straight away." Why the urgency? Why the we? What was wrong with my plans in the first place? Why do I have no autonomy in this situation?


You are allowing her to tell you what to do AND how to do it.

If she wants to do the latter, your response should be something akin to this:

"If you can't control your urge to tell me how to do something, I will simply assume you know better and allow you to do it."

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## DownByTheRiver

I don't really see a scenario where you can "win" this argument by standing up to her. I mean, you've admitted you have not been matching her efforts, so you don't really have a leg to stand on other than you are working on yourself and also that if you have an opportunity to get a bit of rest in the summer due to your choice of a profession, you're entitled to that, but not on her back. She also deserves a break since she's the one who's been taking up the slack, so that's where you should help out some and take some responsibilities off her and not just summer but going forward. If you get too cocky, her attitude might well be that she'd have more leisure time without you. And it wouldn't be wrong.


----------



## SunCMars

coronado71 said:


> That would likely trigger Armageddon.


So what?

Is she worth your silence?

Is she worth her fault, not talking about her salt?

Salt, she is full of; oh, and bile.
Those two mixed give you stones.

Stones that block your happiness.

What are you getting out of this marriage, except, more of this, _walking-on-eggshells_ drama?

My God, man, the woman has you seeing a therapist; yes, all because of *her* knotted up personality.
She needs to be put in her place, a place, far-and-away from you.

Your children are almost out of the house.
All good.

_PLAN YOUR ESCAPE, NOT NEEDING HER PERMISSION. _

Our most valuable possession is our body, with it remaining in good health.

She is discounting your health, and disregarding her role as a kindly mate.

She is not your Mother, nor your boss.
With that in mind, fire her, discharge her from her duties.

Freedom can only be had if you seize it.

It is within your reach, plan for it.



_King Brian- _I am a Crowned Head, and thus, never mired down in drama. I command it away.


----------



## Livvie

She speaks to you terribly.

No man I've _ever_ been with would have stood for even a small fraction of how she speaks to you. Our relationship would have been long over. 

Take some of the responses phrases ideas posters have written to heart. You have to start responding differently to her and not tolerating the way she speaks to you, or nothing will change. 

Let her rage. Leave when she does it. It's better than taking the beat down she has given you for years. Don't you wonder the kind of damage your soul has sustained from her over the years?

Awful.


----------



## Anastasia6

I predict this situation will solve itself in about 3 years, 7 tops


----------



## coronado71

Shouldn't I be? Does anybody look forward to impending cataclysmic struggle?


----------



## ccpowerslave

coronado71 said:


> Shouldn't I be? Does anybody look forward to impending cataclysmic struggle?


Believe it or not, some people like conflict and fighting at least in limited circumstances like when something important (your sanity) is on the line and it’s worth it.


----------



## coronado71

TexasMom1216 said:


> I am a stranger on the internet only going on what you've typed here. So keep that in mind.
> 
> It sounds like your plans for what you're going to do this summer aren't final. If they're not final and there are still outstanding questions, she's saying "we" because that's what we do in business when we're telling someone to do something they need to do and we don't want to sound like we're ordering them around. "We" here sounds to me like it means "you." It makes sense that she would want to know what you're doing, but this urgency you're talking about sounds like bubbling frustration on her part. In short, I think she was being terse with you because she's tired of being in charge of everything all alone and wants you to decide what you're doing and let her know. That particular exchange is a symptom of a larger problem, not a problem in itself. If it comes up again, you have your plans, it's under control and you'll handle it. End of story. If she wants details she can ask for them. If she's demanding and rude, honestly, tell her that. "I'm not your employee, don't talk to me like that."
> 
> It's good you're in therapy and actively trying to fix this about yourself. It sounds like you don't like it either. You'll both be happier when you're happier and more confident in yourself.


Thanks for your thoughtful response. I think you've got the right bead on things. I've complained about being ordered around and she sometimes attempts to soften her "guidance". I think you're also right about the bubbling frustration and it being symptomatic of a larger issue. It's less about sticking with a summer plan and more about being a bigger contributor and lightening her load in general. Since she feels like she has to do everything and can't count on me for anything she likely has the feeling if I'm not working then I'll be doing even less to support her efforts with more time on my hands. She might be trying to avoid deepening the resentment she already has.


Jamieboy said:


> Are you happy with your wife? Does she bring you joy as well as the demands?


I'm not exactly happy and the joyous times are fleeting. However, I recognize the part my lack of initiative adds to her overfilled plate and how that manifests in terse behavior. I recognize that not completing tasks that she counted on me for and not taking full ownership of aspects of our family life (and thus lightening her load) takes its toll. I recognize it and I'm working to improve it, but that doesn't take the sting out of being talked to like a subordinate. I'm still an adult and would like to have some dignity in my marriage.


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## TexasMom1216

No one is ever happy being treated as a subordinate. If you don’t change anything, nothing will change.


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## coronado71

ccpowerslave said:


> Believe it or not, some people like conflict and fighting at least in limited circumstances like when something important (your sanity) is on the line and it’s worth it.


I'm aware that some people are drawn to drama/conflict however I'm a pacifist. Our fighting is unhealthy and 90% unproductive. Reason leaves the room within a few exchanges and chaos reigns. I'm left spent and fighting depression. No way I'm seeking that experience on purpose.


----------



## coronado71

TexasMom1216 said:


> Just based on what is posted here, it sounds like she felt she had to take charge because she couldn't count on you and she resents that. That is why she says mean, dismissive and counterproductive things like "I should have just done it myself."
> 
> I would imagine there is an image of you that you want to see reflected back in her eyes. You want her to see you certain way, as her partner and friend and husband. As her equal. So be that man. Like @ccpowerslave says, BE THAT MAN. Do what needs to be done. Step up, take care of things before she has to point out the things that need to be done. You want authority, take it. As my husband told me when I was being bullied at work, put your **** on the table and take charge (best career advice I have ever gotten, by the way). Proactively become the man you want her to see you as and her behavior will change. "Is this done?" she asks. "Yep," you say on your way to the next thing. No begging for approval, no questions, no opportunity for her to pick apart what you did. You did it, it's done and that is the end of it. (It's key that it really BE the end of it though, you have to actually take care of the things and not just say you did, because she will check and if you don't she won't respect you. But I'm sure you knew that, it probably goes without saying, I just added it in the interest of being thorough.)
> 
> Alpha males don't need women to make them "feel" like men. They ARE men. They don't need women to hold themselves back or pretend to be stupid and helpless and unable to deal with life and "I just need a Daddy." Alpha males don't WANT a woman like that, they want a strong, capable adult who isn't following them but is standing shoulder to shoulder with them in life. If you want her to see you as a hero, BE A HERO. I'm guessing it's what she wants anyway, and she will be grateful and relieved when you do it.


"Just based on what is posted here, it sounds like she felt she had to take charge because she couldn't count on you and she resents that. That is why she says mean, dismissive and counterproductive things like "I should have just done it myself." Facts!


----------



## farsidejunky

coronado71 said:


> Shouldn't I be? Does anybody look forward to impending cataclysmic struggle?


Most do not look forward to cataclysmic struggle.

That said, your lack of willingness to risk said struggle is largely why you are where you are, with your wife running roughshod over you. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## coronado71

*Deidre* said:


> There you go. Envy is a tough thing and she sounds like she masks it by trying to control you. She might have other issues too - you both might together, but I think that’s something she has to work on otherwise she’ll keep searching for something to keep you busy so she feels better.
> 
> This is just my opinion, but does your wife respect your profession as a teacher? To me, that is what would bug me, if I were a teacher and my husband expected me to work another job during my summer vacation - unless I wanted to or we desperately needed the money. You getting a job and sticking to a “plan” should be an agreed upon thing and not something you feel obligated to do just to keep your wife happy. Just my thoughts to it.


Wow, you nailed exactly how I feel. If we don't desperately need the money why the urgency? I don't mind taking on a summer job, in fact, l like staying busy and earning extra money, but I'd like it to be because we agree on it or because we want new counters or something not out of what feels like an arbitrary obligation.


----------



## farsidejunky

coronado71 said:


> I'm aware that some people are drawn to drama/conflict however I'm a pacifist. Our fighting is unhealthy and 90% unproductive. Reason leaves the room within a few exchanges and chaos reigns. I'm left spent and fighting depression. No way I'm seeking that experience on purpose.


That's just it, dude. You don't have to fight per se, but you must be willing to simply, and CALMLY, communicate to her that you don't march to the beat of her drum.

I mean...hey...maybe this works for you. But if you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting. 

Change happens when the fear of remaining the same is greater than the fear of change. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## coronado71

farsidejunky said:


> Most do not look forward to cataclysmic struggle.
> 
> That said, your lack of willingness to risk said struggle is largely why you are where you are, with your wife running roughshod over you.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


I don't disagree that I avoid confrontation and I certainly haven't firmly established boundaries which is why the current dynamic exists. The only issue is how unhealthy the fighting is. Hours on end of venom spitting is dispiriting and up to this point has accomplished nothing beneficial.


----------



## coronado71

farsidejunky said:


> That's just it, dude. You don't have to fight per se, but you must be willing to simply, and CALMLY, communicate to her that you don't march to the beat of her drum.
> 
> I mean...hey...maybe this works for you. But if you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting.
> 
> Change happens when the fear of remaining the same is greater than the fear of change.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


OK Tony Robbins, I hear you. It doesn't work for either of us and either I work at changing it or doom myself to living in it.


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## DownByTheRiver

Well, she can't be THAT busy if she has hours to "spit venom."


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## coronado71

Mybabysgotit said:


> Have you ever put your foot down and just said "hey babe, I don't feel like we are a team here. I almost feel like you're my boss. This isn't what I signed up for when I married you"....then see what she says.
> 
> But you have to have some kind of a backbone here.


I've said it at least 4080 times over the last 20 years.


----------



## ccpowerslave

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, she can't be THAT busy if she has hours to "spit venom."


Eminem spits venom 24/7 and he seems like a nice young person.


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## DownByTheRiver

When's the last time you two just took a weekend off, rented a cabin in the woods and just sat on the porch and chilled out and did nothing?


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## coronado71

ccpowerslave said:


> Is her demand unreasonable or just the delivery of it (tone)?
> 
> In your background it sounds like she doesn’t think you’re doing a great job of your end on maintaining the household. Is she right, or is she unreasonable?
> 
> If she’s right well that’s a simple answer. Do better.
> 
> If she’s off base that’s a different problem.


"If she’s right well that’s a simple answer. Do better." 
She doesn't feel like I'm doing a great job holding up my end. Yes, she does carry more of the load, however doing better is not such a simple proposition. I'm not always aware of the expectations, sometimes I don't agree with the gravity she places on things and sometimes I simply fall short/forget etc. All have the same result--she explodes.


----------



## coronado71

DownByTheRiver said:


> When's the last time you two just took a weekend off, rented a cabin in the woods and just sat on the porch and chilled out and did nothing?


She can't sit still for that long...


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## coronado71

Anastasia6 said:


> I predict this situation will solve itself in about 3 years, 7 tops


Yikes.


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## ccpowerslave

coronado71 said:


> "If she’s right well that’s a simple answer. Do better."
> She doesn't feel like I'm doing a great job holding up my end. Yes, she does carry more of the load, however doing better is not such a simple proposition. I'm not always aware of the expectations, sometimes I don't agree with the gravity she places on things and sometimes I simply fall short/forget etc. All have the same result--she explodes.


Hmm, well you know her. So can you think about what would happen when you present your work product to her?

For example, let’s say for whatever reason my wife is too busy to do laundry. She thinks I suck at laundry and hates for me to touch it. However I know why she thinks I do it badly:

Not good enough at separating colors
Use proper detergents depending on load type
Use softener on certain loads
Check pockets for crap first
Fold crisply and put back in exactly the right place

I have failed at all of these at one point. But now if I need to do it because she is busy I do all of those perfect to her standards and a lot of the time she won’t even notice I have done the laundry, or if she does she will see I tried hard to cross off her list.

Does she not provide that level of feedback?

Oh yes, when I think of slacking on folding a shirt, like I know the fold is sub-par I can think of her reaction and I re-fold it. Sometimes it takes me a couple times.


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## snowbum

Doesn’t sound like either of you like each other


----------



## snowbum

snowbum said:


> Doesn’t sound like either of you like each other


----------



## Prodigal

coronado71 said:


> Our marriage has almost always been tenuous.


Ever considered leaving?


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## farsidejunky

When was the last time the two of you had sex, or what you would consider a healthy sex life?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## heartsbeating

coronado71 said:


> I'm not exactly happy and the joyous times are fleeting. However, I recognize the part my lack of initiative adds to her overfilled plate and how that manifests in terse behavior. I recognize that not completing tasks that she counted on me for and not taking full ownership of aspects of our family life (and thus lightening her load) takes its toll. I recognize it and I'm working to improve it, but that doesn't take the sting out of being talked to like a subordinate. I'm still an adult and would like to have some dignity in my marriage.


Kudos for recognizing this. And for seeking professional help and strategies surrounding your experience of anxiety and depression. There's a certain compassion I feel for her living with a person who is prone to depression. That you recognize some aspects of how your actions impact her and yourself is not to be discounted.

If one source of her frustration is the time you have to go to the gym or sleep and is prioritized over other things that may contribute to the household daily stuff, how about considering whether you are willing to compromise / adjust something there. If I'm reading you correctly, there's instances where she may have perceived you as being unreliable. That impacts trust. To me, that would then equate to trusting that you have one anothers back. We each have our strengths and limitations, however, within your scope of what you can do to demonstrate that you do indeed follow through - reliable - can be trusted - may go a ways for your own confidence as well as hers within the marriage.

At the same time, I agree with others about also calmly and effectively establishing boundaries with how she speaks with you. Many good suggestions on this so far and around not avoiding confrontation. Note, not to be confused with that it needs to be argumentative. Actually kind of the opposite when expressed effectively.


----------



## heartsbeating

sokillme said:


> You might also ask her what problem she is trying to solve so you can help her.


Yes.


----------



## SunCMars

coronado71 said:


> Shouldn't I be? Does anybody look forward to impending cataclysmic struggle?


Look forward to it, not with glee, rather with flee, in mind.

Are you looking at this primarily from that financial impact it will have on your life?
She makes twice as much as you.

Hmm, as I see it, you will not pay any alimony.

In fact, you will get a liberal, a freeing dose of antimony, Sb, when you divorce.
That should stiffen the lead in your pencil.

Not only will you get out alive in the divorce you will be a good catch for an actually kind, and employed lady.
These ladies do exist, just not at your home.

I see that you are tired and frayed.
Why are you afraid?

Your wife, sounds the bully, do not be her punching bag.
Do the rope-a-dope down the street.
Get yourself free!


----------



## jlg07

coronado71 said:


> I don’t have a problem sharing. I have a problem convincing her the plan is viable, valuable, respectable, reasonable…


Why do you have to convince her? This is YOUR job, YOUR work -- not hers. She isn't approving a budget and you are trying to get a special project in so that you have to justify it.

I think you have to take charge a bit more at home. It's OK to say NO to her..


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## LeGenDary_Man

@coronado71

It sounds like that your wife have become the husband, and you have become the wife in your relationship and household. She earns much more than you and feels the need to "take charge" of every activity. You are NOT measuring up to her expectations.

In your words:

_"She feels overwhelmed working full time and “doing everything for the business of our family” I don’t take enough initiative, don’t complete enough tasks, don’t follow-up/through enough or in a timely enough fashion."_

You have recognized that she is overwhelmed. You need to figure out how to FIX this problem because this is NOT a healthy relationship dynamic.

You have also pointed out *the* *problem* in your own words:

_"I tend to stay in my lane outside of work. I have no desire to insert myself or take charge of things that aren’t directly in my purview. I also suffer with depression and anxiety that often limits my productivity at home. This is a consistent source of friction for us."_

You sound WEAK and withdrawn mentally and in your home. This is NOT how a man is supposed to be. Women *resent* weak men in general.

Nature have shaped and intended human male to be strong and capable by default. This is what makes him attractive to human female(s). 

In your case, your wife have become the human male and this is taking a toll on her.

It is possible for a woman to earn more than her hushand but he should be strong and supportive regardless.

1. You need to fight off your depression and anxiety.









11 Natural Depression Treatments


Being depressed can make you feel helpless. You're not. Along with therapy and sometimes medication, there's a lot you can do on your own to fight back. Changing your behavior -- your physical activity, lifestyle, and even your way of thinking -- are all natural depression treatments.




www.webmd.com





2. You need to take charge of some activities and reduce burden on your wife. Acquire new skills for the needful if you have to. You should have sufficient energy to do things when called upon (or yourself).

3. You also need to figure out how to have some quality time with your wife.


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## Diceplayer

coronado71 said:


> When I do things in a way she wouldn’t she says, “I knew I should have just done it myself”


My wife tried this crap on me a few times. Once in particular, was when I offered to make breakfast one morning as she is usually the one to do it. So I was opening a package of sausage and she started telling me that I was doing it wrong. I never said a word. I just laid the package of sausage down on the counter, got a bowl out of the cabinet, poured cereal into it and sat down and had my breakfast. She got the point without any arguing. She has tried this on a few other occasions and my response is always the same, drop what I'm doing and leave it to her. She doesn't do it much anymore.

You're not going to change your wife. You have some good suggestions here on how to change yourself. If that doesn't work, then you have to decide whether this is how you want to live between now and the time that you are dead. If not, stick around for another 3 years until your youngest turns 18 and then bug out.


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## SunCMars

coronado71 said:


> I don't disagree that I avoid confrontation and I certainly haven't firmly established boundaries which is why the current dynamic exists. The only issue is how unhealthy the fighting is. Hours on end of venom spitting is dispiriting and up to this point has accomplished nothing beneficial.


That avoiding is understandable.
Who enjoys a verbal tongue-lashing?

Stress is a relationship killer, and a health destroyer.
This stress is what she proliferously offers you.

Not the below:

Comfort
Joy
Humor
Quiet times
Cuddling
Spontaneous intimacy
Inspiration and encouragement
Mutual likes and activities
Loyalty in all its aspects, minus any infidelity

.......................................................

It may be that pipe dream for any man to fully expect the totality listing above from a significant other.


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## SunCMars

Just a thought'

If you are on anti-anxiety medications, this may explain your lack of zip.
And/or, some other meds can have the same side effects.

Many of them turn you (somewhat) into a zombie.

Some of them also add to the male, _Peter Principle _problem.

These meds detract_ men from their maleness._
The_ peter _retracts_ from sight, from verbal slights._


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## Livvie

If doesn't really sound like a lack of zip to me. We shouldn't confuse a harsh, judgmental bossy Karen's judgment as true reality.


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## Anastasia6

OP I've thought about your situation a bit and have some questions.

When you met and married were you full of anxiety and not a full partner? Or is this a condition that happened after many years...

It seems to me that she has gotten into the mode where she has to take care of way too many things because if not her who? You've stated that you sometimes don't do things she has asked you to do. So she isn't asking you to read her mind. You've stated that you don't always do things.... Well that can be a big mess if that is kids doctors appointments, paying biils, financial planning, and such. 

So she has taken over things and this includes being responsible for you because you at some point seem to have abdicated responsibility.

Getting out of this mode can take a lot of work. But it also includes you actually being a partner instead of a responsibility. Plenty of people are telling you just walk away or don't do anything. I think the problem is you stopped doing way to much a long time ago.

I'm sure at the time she wasn't given a choice if she wanted to be responsible for everything or most things. 

I can tell you in my relationship I am a teacher. I take care of the bills, the planning of everything for what groceries to buy to our retirement, health care, moving, his mothers medical care, vacations and such. It can be exhausting, mentally. I have a college age child who lives at home and goes to school. I can't tell you the resentment I have watching her sleep til noon while I work and then do the dishes too. 

I imagine your wife is resentful of having to bring home a huge paycheck, and take care of most things at the house and not even be able to count on you to do a few things. I imagine she is trying to figure out how you will be contributing over the summer. You don't actually get paid for the summer the school district has a 10 month and a 12 month pay option (unless your district is really weird) by choosing the 12 month pay option they just withhold some of your pay for the 10 months that they do pay you and then give it to you over the summer. You'd make 20% more if they paid you over the summer. Anyways she is probably trying to figure out what you are going to do since you already don't do 50% and now that is going to drop even further. Most people when not working also tend to spend more for entertainment or hobbies. But it doesn't have to be money based though I can say I do our money and while we are comfortable and a large purchase isn't a big deal it hurts because it effects how much I can put into savings. So if you aren't in on the financial planning that means you may not understand the goals she is setting for the family. You have kids approaching college.

Our marriage functions as a team. I do these mental tasks because I"m good at it. My husband always has the opportunity to have input into all the decisions and we regularly discuss things. As a teacher, there are times I have to work over and times he helps with my teaching chores like grading. But here we are it's summer. I have a shorter than normal break of only 6 weeks. I now do almost all the dishes, cooking and just am typing from a Marriott because I drove him to a location he had to go for his job. I drove so he'd have about 6 hours in the car to look at resumes. He needs to do some interviews but has been too busy at work to weed through the resumes. I helped him unload his equipment last night, packed him a lunch for today and will bring him dinner at work tonight or he doesn't eat. I have planted a garden as we like fresh organic produce. I am coordinating his mothers hospital, rehab and referral care as she is in stage 5 kidney failure. I'm canning up homemade soups so that when I have to go back to work he can have healthy lunches on the go. I'll be freezing some dinners as well. I did a deep clean on our bathroom and will continue going around the house all summer. So he doesn't resent me having the summer off because I make his life easier when I"m off.

What are you doing? You say you are working on it. You admit you don't do your share. How does anxiety stop you from contributing? Have you actually just asked her if it's about the money or the lack of being a true partner?

Once you two can discuss things you can share how you feel. This seems like a deep circle you are in. She has gotten used to not being able to count on you and treats you as such and you don't appreciate being treated like that. And is it just the tone? I can be brusque sometimes when I"m in a hurry but my husband knows I value him.

I feel you two are both building resentment which is a marriage killer.

And harsh or not I did mean it when I said you have maybe 3 years to fix this. When you youngest child hits 18 is a dangerous time for marriages with resentment. You are unhappy, sounds like she is too. 

Someone asked about your sex life. You didn't answer but it can be hint to how she's feeling about you.


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## DudeInProgress

coronado71 said:


> I feel like my take charge executive wife is treating me like an employee and I’m not sure how to handle it.
> 
> *Short version: *I’m a high school English teacher who usually works at a camp all summer but can’t this year due to family commitments. I have secured a job teaching a one week course in July (for about $1200). I’ve also applied for another virtual teaching job, and asked a contractor friend if I could help out with kitchen demolitions. I planned to refinish the kitchen cabinets and reseal the deck in the interim. Today, in regards to these summer plans, my wife said, “I’d like to solidify a plan straight away…” Why is it so important to her that _we_ need to solidify a plan for what _I’ll_ do this summer? I get paid 12 months, she makes more than double my salary and we aren’t desperate for the modest money I’ll likely make doing summer work (though of course it’ll help). It feels like she is arbitrarily taking charge and I have little recourse. I don’t know how to respond. I need perspective, wisdom, and help!
> 
> *Backstory *(if interested):
> My wife of 19 yrs. is a classic woman executive. She’s worked exceptionally hard for a seat at the table at which she still isn’t always heard. She’s responsible for a lot in the office and she takes charge of her staff to ensure it all gets done. Taking charge is kind of her thing, the kids and me, at the family reunion, in the grocery store with strangers. She’s most comfortable when she’s in control (can be _very_ uncomfortable when she’s not). Her impatience also has a hair-trigger. I tend to stay in my lane outside of work. I have no desire to insert myself or take charge of things that aren’t directly in my purview. I also suffer with depression and anxiety that often limits my productivity at home. This is a consistent source of friction for us. She feels overwhelmed working full time and “doing everything for the business of our family” I don’t take enough initiative, don’t complete enough tasks, don’t follow-up/through enough or in a timely enough fashion. She is often very critical of and sometimes insulting as a result. I’m often very defensive and feel like her employee. Our marriage has almost always been tenuous. Resentment lingers in the air like cat pee at our house—don’t always notice the smell but it’s always there. I’m in behavioral therapy and take medication. I’m getting better at my part, but it’s a process.


There’s not much you can do about the summer job/scheduling situation until you fix the obvious dysfunctional power dynamic in your marriage (which is what we’re really talking about here).
Which you can’t do until you fix yourself (which it sounds like you’re in the process of doing).

Unfortunately, it sounds like your entire marriage/relationship dynamic is completely dysfunctional. You have not been taking any leadership in your marriage and have essentially forfeited that role to your wife, who is extremely resentful about it. 
As a result, she does not respect you as a man or a husband. She treats you like a nagging, critical mother because she sees you as an incompetent child.

If you want anything to change, you will have to completely rebuild your marriage/relationship dynamic , which one means you becoming a strong, confident leader (or at least co-leader) in your marriage/family. It means not being passive, submissive or timid with your wife.

That’s what you need to be working on if you want to have any hope of your marital dynamic improving. And it is possible to improve such a dynamic, but after all this time, I’m not sure the odds are in your favor. Either way, for your own dignity, that’s the path I’d pursue.


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## DudeInProgress

coronado71 said:


> That said, I still don't know how to respond to the idea that my plans for working over the summer were dismissed and now _we _need to solidify new plans "straight away." Why the urgency? Why the we? What was wrong with my plans in the first place? *Why do I have no autonomy in this situation?*


Because you’re choosing not to. This is on you.
She’s not your boss, she’s not your mommy, she’s your wife and you are her husband. If you want to be treated like a husband, act like one.

You are your own man and you don’t have to abide by her standards, you have to abide by your own.
That said, it sounds like your standards may be a bit lacking so you do need to step things up with your urgency, aggressiveness, competence - but it’s for YOU. it’s because you want to be a more effective man and a more effective partner, not so that you can be a more effective servant to her. It’s an important distinction.

If you want autonomy in the situation, then act with autonomy. What the **** are you so afraid of?


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