# Another blow struck for equality?



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

LOL!

New mom enraged by husband’s decision to become a ‘stay-at-home dad'


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The thread got shut down on Reddit.

I find his request not unreasonable.

I find her concern about being able to make 'enough' after a 3 year hiatus, potentially not unreasonable.

What most of us here know, is that if they don't work together on a compromise that factors the needs of both, then neither will actually get what they want. And they will find themselves supporting separate households doing the 50/50 dance regarding childcare and rearing.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Deejo said:


> LOL!
> 
> New mom enraged by husband’s decision to become a ‘stay-at-home dad'


deejo, they never finish the “equality” statement. The last part is typically cut off when certain types of people scream for it. Here, I’ll help out.

We want equality until it is inconvenient to us!

equality until inconvenience!
Equality until inconvenience!


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

If she thinks it's hard finding a job after 3yrs, what is she going to do at 5 or 10 years?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Al_Bundy said:


> If she thinks it's hard finding a job after 3yrs, what is she going to do at 5 or 10 years?


Huh?
Right now they are begging for workers!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

To me it's just tragic comedy. For those whom gender equality or equality of opportunity is important, this seems pretty straightforward. Yet it isn't.

People want to celebrate dad's being involved or engaged in child-rearing. But ... there is clearly still a lane that society wants dad to stay in if mom is the one that wants to be home with the kids. And in general, I believe society is going to have mom's back over dad's.

Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Just further evidence that hoping for the ideal of equal or shared responsibility is a helluva lot different than the reality of equal and shared responsibility.

Were he to get what he wants in this scenario, resentment on the part of his wife is inevitable, and the union still tanks.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I dont know how much the question here is about gender equity or the situation itself. To clarify, let's say when the child was born, the husband was in some sort of accident (they do not talk about the traumatic birth experience so not sure what that means) and he left his job to heal while the wife went back to work. After a bit, they both decided it was working and he stayed at home longer. Now, 3 years later, she wants to switch. Is that a gender issue?

The situation is what it was for more than one reason (and none of them appear to be gender based), and it is not something that can just be flipped the other way easily. Should they work together to find some sort of compromise, of course.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I agree that the lack of teamwork is concerning. I'm not a fan of unilaterally deciding to stay at home....that has to be a joint decision. If he's no longer ok with that arrangement she needs to get a job.

It was reasonable for her to take some time to recover from a difficult pregnancy. That's something men don't have to deal with.

It's ridiculous that she's ok letting him work overtime and not see his kids much so she can stay home. A partner would step up....even if she doesn't make a lot it might be enough for him to have normal hours and more kid time.

It may not be reasonable financially for him to stay home depending on what she can make. If he thinks she should now work overtime so he can stay home that's unhealthy bean counting. Just divorce now and split your kid time.

At the very least she needs a job so he can scale back hours. I bet us working women look pretty good to a guy like this. LOL.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Deejo said:


> To me it's just tragic comedy. For those whom gender equality or equality of opportunity is important, this seems pretty straightforward. Yet it isn't.
> 
> People want to celebrate dad's being involved or engaged in child-rearing. But ... there is clearly still a lane that society wants dad to stay in if mom is the one that wants to be home with the kids. And in general, I believe society is going to have mom's back over dad's.
> 
> ...


I think that where kids are concerned true equality is a myth if for no other reason then men can't physically get pregnant, so that imbalance factors in. Compare that to adopting a kid... more opportunity for equality because mom didn't carry the baby. Baby comes home and dad can get up at night just like mom.

But once mom recovers and dad can participate fully (ie baby isn't breastfeeding) I see no reason mom can't work.

But I'm one of those working types 😁


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Tasorundo said:


> I dont know how much the question here is about gender equity or the situation itself. To clarify, let's say when the child was born, the husband was in some sort of accident (they do not talk about the traumatic birth experience so not sure what that means) and he left his job to heal while the wife went back to work. After a bit, they both decided it was working and he stayed at home longer. Now, 3 years later, she wants to switch. Is that a gender issue?
> 
> The situation is what it was for more than one reason (and none of them appear to be gender based), and it is not something that can just be flipped the other way easily. Should they work together to find some sort of compromise, of course.


Well, in the switch scenario you lay out, and basing my opinion by wearing the hat of society at large, I'd bet most people would support mom. I don't feel like it's a stretch at all that society presumes that women are FAR better suited to child-rearing than men. And I'd agree. As soon as he is capable of getting off his ass and getting out there to provide for his family, that it is what I believe would, and frankly should, be expected of him. Give mom more time to bond with and engage with her child. 

Again, I ain't saying any of it is right. I am saying for those that think the question is one of gender roles, or fairness/equality, there is no straightforward answer, despite how much someone may want there to be. There absolutely however ends up being more 'questions'. In spades.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> if for no other reason then men can't physically get pregnant


Oh LTS, you are not keeping up with woke culture….


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

gr8ful1 said:


> Oh LTS, you are not keeping up with woke culture….


True. I'm not very woke.

In fact I'm half asleep.

Bad joke I know.....LOL


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

My wife doesn't even pretend to be a feminist. She makes it clear that I should be the one to do all the manly things, which to her, also include all the finances and big decision making.

We both work full time, hard. Most of the time, I am fine taking all of that on, but sometimes I need her to step up and show some independence.

I repeat, my wife doesn't even pretend to be a feminist.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> Huh?
> Right now they are begging for workers!


Yes but since it was brought up as an issue (excuse), my point was it's not going to get easier. Like you said, there are help wanted signs everywhere but I also have friends who are managers and they can't even get people to apply. The typical excuse is the businesses don't pay enough (for unskilled labor). But if someone started now, they could move up at a record pace.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Al_Bundy said:


> Yes but since it was brought up as an issue (excuse), my point was it's not going to get easier. Like you said, there are help wanted signs everywhere but I also have friends who are managers and they can't even get people to apply. The typical excuse is the businesses don't pay enough (for unskilled labor). But if someone started now, they could move up at a record pace.


LOL That still cracks me up, people want 15+ to flip a damm burger


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> LOL That still cracks me up, people want 15+ to flip a damm burger


Just wait, by the next election they'll be demanding $20 an hour for their lack of skills.

There are companies out there making robots to do that and a lot of other jobs. I'm sure people won't get any less entitled as years go on so that's one area I like to invest in. Nothing like literally banking on peoples' laziness.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think that where kids are concerned true equality is a myth if for no other reason then men can't physically get pregnant, so that imbalance factors in. Compare that to adopting a kid... more opportunity for equality because mom didn't carry the baby. Baby comes home and dad can get up at night just like mom.
> 
> But once mom recovers and dad can participate fully (ie baby isn't breastfeeding) I see no reason mom can't work.
> 
> But I'm one of those working types 😁


Yep, you are just another working stiff.

I am retired and no longer work.
Work for money, that is.

I work at those un-typical things done in retirement.
Jogging, biking, hiking, fishing in pristine places.

Oh yeah, working around the house, working on the lawn

I am still a working stiff.
I wake up, and my muscles are stiff.

No, no, I kept this clean...for once.


_Are Dee-_


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Gabriel said:


> My wife doesn't even pretend to be a feminist. She makes it clear that I should be the one to do all the manly things, which to her, also include all the finances and big decision making.
> 
> We both work full time, hard. Most of the time, I am fine taking all of that on, but sometimes I need her to step up and show some independence.
> 
> I repeat, my wife doesn't even pretend to be a feminist.


My wife is full on feminist and very happy to for me to handle everything that is manly and not learn how to do it herself while she does laundry etc. 
It should be like that, be yourself and if that happens to be very feminine (as in her case), then that is fine.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I think when it comes to division of labor and who stays home, there has to be some compromise. The compromise can't really be "you go earn some bacon because you're the man." That's what one person wants and nothing that the other wants. I'm a feminist but I'm not sure this has a lot to do with feminism. It's just one person refusing to compromise, or maybe because the wife is not a feminist, she feels that he needs to go to work while she stays home. I don't know. All I see is two people unwilling to compromise to meet the other's needs. 

When it comes to chores, I'm happy to do my equal share of all chores when I had a partner. It did drive me mad over time that my xbf NEVER washed his dishes anymore, and just accumulated piles of laundry for over a week while insisting "I'll do it" but not letting me wash it or washing it himself. I would eventually crack when I couldn't stand the chaos and wash it. Then he would be all "but I said I was going to do it." Good partners work together. I guess we weren't good partners for each other.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> LOL That still cracks me up, people want 15+ to flip a damm burger


And they are getting it. Political and social pressure is forcing companies to raise pay for entry level positions to $15/hour. Floridians approved $15 minimum ( phased in over 6 years). The result of course is just inflation and businesses looking to automate more. Our local grocery stores have moved to mostly self-checkout lanes to decrease the body count.

While businesses are looking to hire in the moment, that is just an artifact of trying to restart after a disaster (pandemic). Over time they will figure out how to make money with fewer people, and the jobs available will dry up.

On the thread topic, I personally believe both in a marriage ought to have a career they enjoy. My wife's career was SAHM, which she enjoyed and was very good at. I would have been sad as a SAHD.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> And they are getting it. Political and social pressure is forcing companies to raise pay for entry level positions to $15/hour. Floridians approved $15 minimum ( phased in over 6 years). The result of course is just inflation and businesses looking to automate more. Our local grocery stores have moved to mostly self-checkout lanes to decrease the body count.
> 
> While businesses are looking to hire in the moment, that is just an artifact of trying to restart after a disaster (pandemic). Over time they will figure out how to make money with fewer people, and the jobs available will dry up.
> 
> On the thread topic, I personally believe both in a marriage ought to have a career they enjoy. My wife's career was SAHM, which she enjoyed and was very good at. I would have been sad as a SAHD.


It's a shame that this people do not understand how economics work and that socialism always fails


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> It's a shame that this people do not understand how economics work and that socialism always fails


Unfortunately, the world greatest minds are too busy posting on this forum.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> It's a shame that this people do not understand how economics work and that socialism always fails


I think this is because the socialists in the west are privileged in that there is plenty. They think they struggle but nobody here is starving thanks to the welfare systems.

Because of this they imagine that socialism means supply will remain constant but will be distributed more equitably. They don't understand that when you remove reward you also remove incentive so there will be less supply....that's where you get bread lines.

I see people who have never missed a meal in their life post on social media about how they're slaves to capitalism and don't want to work...just want to be creative. It's like it doesn't occur to these people that someone has to work to supply the things they consume.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think this is because the socialists in the west are privileged in that there is plenty. They think they struggle but nobody here is starving thanks to the welfare systems.
> 
> Because of this they imagine that socialism means supply will remain constant but will be distributed more equitably. They don't understand that when you remove reward you also remove incentive so there will be less supply....that's where you get bread lines.
> 
> I see people who have never missed a meal in their life post on social media about how they're slaves to capitalism and don't want to work...just want to be creative. It's like it doesn't occur to these people that someone has to work to supply the things they consume.


^^^^This

They were never taught that there is no such thing as "free"


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

To the article in at start of the thread, what I read a lot on TAM are stories about SAHM with time on their hands, especially after the kids begin school. Sometimes that causes a search for more exciting passtimes to the detriment of the marriage. Of course a job is also a risk of them meeting a man they end up preferring to hubby.

After our kids were all a certain age, came home once and wife said "guess what I did?" She had applied and been hired for a job that day, and continued to work until I retired. She even earned a small retirement. We didn't need the money, but as my dad used to say, it kept her out of the pool hall lol.

I think it is good for both in a marriage to have a career. Especially if someday the marriage ends.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Numb26 said:


> LOL That still cracks me up, people want 15+ to flip a damm burger





Rus47 said:


> And they are getting it. Political and social pressure is forcing companies to raise pay for entry level positions to $15/hour. Floridians approved $15 minimum ( phased in over 6 years). The result of course is just inflation and businesses looking to automate more. Our local grocery stores have moved to mostly self-checkout lanes to decrease the body count.


To both of you!
I was just going to post "And they're getting it!"
I live in the midwest. Mid pandemic my middle kid was working retail for $9.75 as a new hire. 6 months later, when labor shortage got going, she was made manager and given a raise to $11.50. The lady managing the local pizza place has been there less than 4 months. 

Middle Kid found out Tac Bell is paying $14.50 and went there for an instant $3.00 raise. Since they are also short managers they will be training her as crew for a few months and moving her to Asst. Mgr training directly after.



Rus47 said:


> On the thread topic, I personally believe both in a marriage ought to have a career they enjoy.


Yes, both people should work. It doesn't matter the gender, spouses leave, become injured and unable to work, or die. It's foolish to be unable to comfortably support yourself and any children you may have in the event one of those things does happen.



Rus47 said:


> Of course a job is also a risk of them meeting a man they end up preferring to hubby.


I can't remember where I read it, but allegedly infidelity and divorce rate is higher for SAHD's then the traditional SAHM or two earner households. Apparently, a lot of women will lose respect, see the man as a dependent, and either leave or have affairs and then leave.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> Yes, both people should work. It doesn't matter the gender, spouses leave, become injured and unable to work, or die. It's foolish to be unable to comfortably support yourself and any children you may have in the event one of those things does happen.


This is true, but if you’re a big earner and responsible you should be protecting your spouse. I have a ****load of life insurance, I bought extra disability insurance up to the maximum I was able to buy which is enough to cover our living expenses for years of me being disabled. 

Savings needs to be there in case of an emergency.

Estate planning needs to be in order, my inheritance and such from my family is all laid out with a lawyer and my wife knows where she slots in (it’s all contingent on her still being married to me or married to me at the time of my death, thanks to mumzie).

So while my wife works her ass off, she can’t maintain all the stuff we own and the lifestyle she has by herself, not even close. So I did the best I could to make sure that if something happens to me she is set up the best I can set her up.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> This is true, but if you’re a big earner and responsible you should be protecting your spouse. I have a ****load of life insurance, I bought extra disability insurance up to the maximum I was able to buy which is enough to cover our living expenses for years of me being disabled.
> 
> Savings needs to be there in case of an emergency.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have everything in order. I had to change all mine the make sure it was just the kids who were taken care of. They will be fine if anything happens to me


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> And they are getting it. Political and social pressure is forcing companies to raise pay for entry level positions to $15/hour. Floridians approved $15 minimum ( phased in over 6 years). The result of course is just inflation and businesses looking to automate more. Our local grocery stores have moved to mostly self-checkout lanes to decrease the body count.
> 
> While businesses are looking to hire in the moment, that is just an artifact of trying to restart after a disaster (pandemic). Over time they will figure out how to make money with fewer people, and the jobs available will dry up.
> 
> On the thread topic, I personally believe both in a marriage ought to have a career they enjoy. My wife's career was SAHM, which she enjoyed and was very good at. I would have been sad as a SAHD.


For now, but with the nice inflation going on it will be worth less and their buying power will be right back where it was.

Obviously you need some kind of minimum wage...you don't want people working for a dollar an hour, but at a certain point you're trying to force people to value certain labor more then they do.

It never works.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Obviously you need some kind of minimum wage...you don't want people working for a dollar an hour, but at a certain point you're trying to force people to value certain labor more then they do.


It’s not obvious.

Why should a third party intervene in a voluntary transaction between two individuals?

If I offer a job to say dig a ditch and to me it is worth $2 an hour, nobody is forced to take that job. I can either find someone willing to do it, I can do it myself, or I can raise my hourly rate until someone decides to do it.

Minimum wage is an unfortunate side effect of other government interference like entitlements. If you remove government you no longer need a minimum wage.

Edit: This is a very complicated topic and economic theorists have been debating it for a long time and it is still being debated today.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> For now, but with the nice inflation going on it will be worth less and their buying power will be right back where it was.
> 
> Obviously you need some kind of minimum wage...you don't want people working for a dollar an hour, but at a certain point you're trying to force people to value certain labor more then they do.
> 
> It never works.


Actually, min for tipped employees working in small restaurant is $2/hr. Not much above zero. They depend on tips.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> you don't want people working for a dollar an hour,


Can you even imagine anyone doing that in this climate? My customers can’t get hardly anyone to work as delivery drivers for $50k+. I can’t even imagine ever a time again where anyone would be willing to work for much less than $15/hr (although it sure would be nice for the millions coming over the border to do so as opposed to just signing up for welfare).


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

I see a certain amount of selfishness on both sides. They are in a marriage. If they were to divorce. Then what? I am sure both would have to work then.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> For now, but with the nice inflation going on it will be worth less and their buying power will be right back where it was.
> 
> Obviously you need some kind of minimum wage...you don't want people working for a dollar an hour, but at a certain point you're trying to force people to value certain labor more then they do.
> 
> It never works.


The median yearly earnings in Switzerland are about $120,000.
Guess what the minimum wage in Switzerland is?
There isn't one.

So I guess you don't need any kind of minimum wage.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

As Penn Jillette said, if the minimum wage idea works, then why not make it $100/hr, then we'll all be really well off.


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## Pam (Oct 7, 2010)

It wasn't mentioned (that I saw) how much the wife made before she got pregnant. If she was a rising executive with career possibilities, then I could lean toward the husband staying home; if she was working in the perfume department in the local boutique, not so much. The family has to eat. However, I lean toward her getting a job if he could work fewer hours and have more time with his kid. BUT, he would also have to take on his share of the housework, cooking and laundry; I see stories on here where the husband never turns a hand at home.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Laurentium said:


> As Penn Jillette said, if the minimum wage idea works, then why not make it $100/hr, then we'll all be really well off.


Then the song could be "Brother can you loan me a $100 (not a dime)"


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Sounds like you have everything in order. I had to change all mine the make sure it was just the kids who were taken care of. They will be fine if anything happens to me


My kids will have a lot of money if something happens to me.

I like to think I'm worth more alive. At least I hope.....LOL.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

tech-novelist said:


> The median yearly earnings in Switzerland are about $120,000.
> *Guess what the minimum wage in Switzerland is?
> There isn't one.*
> 
> So I guess you don't need any kind of minimum wage.


Interesting, what is your source on this? I just checked 3 different sources that say otherwise.

Edit: 2017 it got enacted
Edit: Upon reading further, there is no national minimum it is collectively bargained by the national unions which cover all trades individually. The lowest being 15,574 per year. This is with 4 weeks minimum yearly vacation. If Switzerland is the gold standard maybe we should have national guild unions?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

This is worth a read:





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As is this:





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Mr. Williamson is not against helping out the poor....he just makes a very good argument for why forcing higher minimum wage doesn't help and he has ideas for what might be better.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> For now, but with the nice inflation going on it will be worth less and their buying power will be right back where it was.
> 
> Obviously you need some kind of minimum wage...you don't want people working for a dollar an hour, *but at a certain point you're trying to force people to value certain labor more then they do.*
> 
> It never works.


It is really just econ 101, chapter 1, price is where supply and demand curves cross. A worker whose only skills are those any human has, like fogging a mirror, can only demand wages that all the rest of the population are willing to receive. If the government will print enough checks to pay a lot of people $600/week to stay home, ($15/hour), that becomes the floor. Adding in other entitlements,and considering going to a job entails costs ( like daycare for a single mom) the real minimum might be more like $30/hour. A business can only afford 1/3 the employees they could at $10/hour. Employees involve a lot of overhead for a business, lot of government required paperwork, insurance, legal, accounting. A small business might conclude that returning to sole proprietorship is better than having employees.

I think this ends up with business owners only hiring family/automating/ using robots/making the customer do the work employees once did. Businesses paying higher taxes to support most people watching Netflix and playing video games. More businesses moving operations to low tax locations. Somehow doesn't seem sustainable, but maybe am just too old to see how it can work.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I like to think I'm worth more alive. At least I hope.....LOL.


This goes without saying you kick ass, one eyed mutant!😉😁


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> And they are getting it. Political and social pressure is forcing companies to raise pay for entry level positions to $15/hour.


Somewhat, yes. But it's mostly labor supply and demand causing wages to rise. That, and the lack of any significant adjustment for inflation for many years, leading to many workers not receiving a living wage. If they're not worth it, then the employer can do without, right? The employer has no innate right to cheap labor to stay in business, if they can't make it work while paying a fair wage.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> It is really just econ 101, chapter 1, price is where supply and demand curves cross. A worker whose only skills are those any human has, like fogging a mirror, can only demand wages that all the rest of the population are willing to receive. If the government will print enough checks to pay a lot of people $600/week to stay home, ($15/hour), that becomes the floor. Adding in other entitlements,and considering going to a job entails costs ( like daycare for a single mom) the real minimum might be more like $30/hour. A business can only afford 1/3 the employees they could at $10/hour. Employees involve a lot of overhead for a business, lot of government required paperwork, insurance, legal, accounting. A small business might conclude that returning to sole proprietorship is better than having employees.
> 
> I think this ends up with business owners only hiring family/automating/ using robots/making the customer do the work employees once did. Businesses paying higher taxes to support most people watching Netflix and playing video games. More businesses moving operations to low tax locations. Somehow doesn't seem sustainable, but maybe am just too old to see how it can work.


I have personal friends who at one time had employees and now have moved to a company of one through the use of VAs and 1099s.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

tech-novelist said:


> The median yearly earnings in Switzerland are about $120,000.
> Guess what the minimum wage in Switzerland is?
> There isn't one.
> 
> So I guess you don't need any kind of minimum wage.


The Swiss are generally a based people. I am half Swiss myself. I don’t follow their politics closely unless I trip over it however since they frequently show up in “experimental” situations due to their relative homogeneous nature for example UBI, immigration, and things of that sort they are fun to look at from afar.

One thing I liked about visiting is they had Swiss flags EVERYWHERE. They like their country.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> The Swiss are generally a based people. I am half Swiss myself. I don’t follow their politics closely unless I trip over it however since they frequently show up in “experimental” situations due to their relative homogeneous nature for example UBI, immigration, and things of that sort they are fun to look at from afar.
> 
> One thing I liked about visiting is they had Swiss flags EVERYWHERE. They like their country.


And I have read that every male is required to own a firearm and train in using it. Their citizen militia.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> The Swiss are generally a based people. I am half Swiss myself. I don’t follow their politics closely unless I trip over it however since they frequently show up in “experimental” situations due to their relative homogeneous nature for example UBI, immigration, and things of that sort they are fun to look at from afar.
> 
> One thing I liked about visiting is they had Swiss flags EVERYWHERE. They like their country.


I've spent several months in Switzerland over the last 40 years. I would move there if I could.
If my current project pays off, I'll probably be able to.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> And I have read that every male is required to own a firearm and train in using it. Their citizen militia.


Yeah you gotta watch that though. A buddy of mine in graduate school was kicked out of the army for screwing up when trying to throw a Molotov at a proxy tank and almost lighting people on fire because he was a dork. They’re like um… you’re done here bro!

It’s true that they have high gun ownership and they’re not all shooting each other. It’s a lot like my house we have I dunno 4 guns per person or something and somehow we managed to avoid shooting anyone.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

tech-novelist said:


> I've spent several months in Switzerland over the last 40 years. I would move there if I could.
> If my current project pays off, I'll probably be able to.


My mom was always talking about some obscure law they had where if you have all Swiss grandparents you can become a citizen, maybe it was 3? I don’t remember. All I know is I only had two so it never applied to me. It’s actually very hard to immigrate there. In some towns they vote on you and even if you have lived there if they don’t feel you’re integrated enough in the culture of that local area they’re like no thanks we pass… contrast that to our southern border.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah you gotta watch that though. A buddy of mine in graduate school was kicked out of the army for screwing up when trying to throw a Molotov at a proxy tank and almost lighting people on fire because he was a dork. They’re like um… you’re done here bro!
> 
> It’s true that they have high gun ownership and they’re not all shooting each other. It’s a lot like my house we have I dunno 4 guns per person or something and somehow we managed to avoid shooting anyone.


I have always owned firearms and have never shot anyone. I was tslking about the swiss, I was under impression that every male was required to own a firearm kept in his home.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> I have always owned firearms and have never shot anyone. I was tslking about the swiss, I was under impression that every male was required to own a firearm kept in his home.


I don’t know if it is a requirement or you’re allowed to keep it provided you do it properly. Ah turns out both.









Firearms regulation in Switzerland - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





I haven’t argued with anyone about gun control in a long time so I forgot some of the fine details.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah you gotta watch that though. A buddy of mine in graduate school was kicked out of the army for screwing up when trying to throw a Molotov at a proxy tank and almost lighting people on fire because he was a dork. They’re like um… you’re done here bro!
> 
> It’s true that they have high gun ownership and they’re not all shooting each other. It’s a lot like my house we have I dunno 4 guns per person or something and somehow we managed to avoid shooting anyone.


I am not sure I could hack life in Switzerland, and I have lived there in Basel (crap) and the Rhone Valley (much better).
Swiss people are, on the whole, far more domesticated than American people. They are orderly etc, but I am not that domesticated and I found it stiffling. 
It is the reason why the Swiss can be trusted with guns, whereas the Brits cannot. But, I prefer Britain.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> My mom was always talking about some obscure law they had where if you have all Swiss grandparents you can become a citizen, maybe it was 3? I don’t remember. All I know is I only had two so it never applied to me. It’s actually very hard to immigrate there. In some towns they vote on you and even if you have lived there if they don’t feel you’re integrated enough in the culture of that local area they’re like no thanks we pass… contrast that to our southern border.


Actually it's more complicated than just how many Swiss grandparents you have. If you're interested, you can always contact an immigration lawyer there, although of course that is going to cost some money so it's not worth doing just to satisfy curiosity.


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