# I am a basket case and need some advice plese



## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

My marriage began 20 years ago when I knew all I wanted was to be with this man for the rest of my life. But through the course of these 20 years, my marriage has not turned out the way I always saw it, and my husband was not the husband or father I always thought he would have been.

We had dreams together which none of them have been completed other than having a nice house with a big back yard and 2 wonderful kids. My husband can tell you that he always got whatever he wanted, while I can not say the same.

I tell myself now that I should have known better from the beginning..but I was letting my heart guide me. Before we got married he "didnt love me" and "needed a change" so he broke up with me and within a week had himself another girlfriend. This went on for a year...then he dumped her and came back to me. And yes I took him back because he was who I wanted to be with. But, I should have known better when he showed up hung over to our wedding!!! Why the hell did I let that one slide?? because again I was letting my heart lead me. I should have known better when he wouldnt "let me" go to school(I wanted to be a hair stylist and nail technician).

So now we have been married for 20 years and as I look back..not even half of it was what I would really consider a good marriage. Sure I had my kids, i had a husband who makes good money, i had a house, I had security!

My husband eventually changed into this man that thought putting food on the table and providing his family with a house and cars and anything we wanted material wise was what a husband is supposed to do. So, while he got to have his friends and his drinking, bowling, shooting(he shot bow with the guys, but never actually went hunting), and bar nights, I got to stay home with the babies. This is basically when it all started to go downhill on my end. I loved being a stay at home Mom and am glad I got to have total control in how my kids were raised because i wanted to give them things i didnt have growing up like self esteem, free flowing creativity, and a stable Mother they could actually depend on(I wanted them to have a father they could depend on too, but that didnt work out so much). I finally talked to my husband and asked him what he expected from me....he didnt like the sound of that because he soon got rid of his friends, quit drinking and driving, stopped the bar nights....and spent time at home. This was all good for a short time. 

But then he found something else to occupy his time and efforts which didnt really include his family. He got into car racing with his father. Oh sure, it started out all innocent and as a hobby, but as time passed he got way too serious about it and again our relationship started to suffer. So again I talked to him. We built a garage in our back yard so he could bring the race car over here(we were at his parents house almost every day of every week just so me and his boys could see him). So now I am thinking ..ok, he is going to change this up a little bit and start including his family in what he is doin...great!! And it was great, we were having fun tearing apart motors and rebuilding them together, going to the races as a family...it was awesome. But...it changed again and we were replaced with a racing partner. This meant we were no longer needed. So, I went back to being the house wife and taking care of things. 

It got to the point where he was so focused on his racing that we missed family events(weddings, graduations, anniversary parties, etc). We could no longer plan anything on any weekend because he had to race. So...if we wanted to be a part of his life, we had to go racing with him...and we did! But it never made him realize all we wanted was for him to spend time with us. Even though I had basically begged him to help me find something we can do together as a family..he would promise we would...but we never did. 

Throughout this marriage I have been denied anything I wanted..little things...but they added up over the years. I wanted to get out of the house for awhile and wanted a job..so...I was given the ok to get a part time job, but there were stipulations and rules. It had to be close to home, I could only work from Monday thru Thursday(becasue his Mom was babysitting while I went to work and she would not watch the boys on the weekends...and my husband was too busy with his race car to watch his own kids), and it had to be after the kids got home from school so I could still do all my house wifey stuff during the days. I ended up losing that job because I couldnt work the hours they needed me. So again I am back to being a house wife. I loved working and meeting people...it was great.

So, to pass the time, I started painting ceramics. this was all good because I could do it at home and still stay with the kids and he didnt have to be involved. So I painted, but it was a pain because I didnt have a kiln to heat my own items i was painting so I had to travel into town(it was close to home so it was ok, according to him, for me to take the boys just that far by myself) to have my stuff cooked. I asked if I could have a kiln so I didnt have to do that..and of course it was way too much trouble to put a 220 line into the garage for me to do that..so again...denied. So, I stopped painting..which I loved to do and was really good at! Back to being a house wife with nothing but husband and kids to take care of!

Why have I stayed this long so far you ask? It is because between the "i want to be somebody" stage(thats what I call it) and his racing stage...I was told that if he EVER caught me cheating(which I would never do, I am too loyal) I would never see my kids again. I was also told that if we ever divorced...no judge in their right mind would EVER give me custody of my kids with my messed up family background(biological mother left when i was 1, alcoholic father left when i was 9, mental and occasional physical abuse from step mother, druggie/prostitute sister). Silly me, I believed him because he was so intimidating and manipulative...why couldnt I be strong then? I would have left him right then and there. But no...I still had a job to do which was raise my boys, and I couldnt do that if I couldnt get custody of them( i didnt even want full custody..it would have to be shared).

There were so many things that should have thrown up flags to me, but I was hoping one day he would come around and be the husband and father we were looking for. My oldest son when he was about 10 years old caught me crying one day...he asked me..."why don't you just divorce him?"...WOW..he had no idea I was still here for him and his brother and I wasnt going to put that knowledge on him, so I just made excuses for his fathers behavior. i got into a bad habit of doing that...making excuses for him, not just to his kids, but his family and friends(what few he had left). Up until last year I think my oldest son really didnt like his father(my youngest never talks about it). We never knew what kind of mood he was going to be in so the kids basically just steared clear of him. But when he was out of town...man did we have fun...the kids and I would do all kinds of crazy fun things that we couldnt do with Dad around...but when he was on his way home...it was a white tornado job through the house(myhusbad wanted everything clean and perfect...yeah, like thats possible with small children)and we would spend the last hour before he got home cleaning everything up.

There are so many things I could go on for days!! I just don't know what to do now. Last year I talked to him yet again because the relationship was not what it is supposed to be and I was finally tired enough of being neglected and having my boys neglected that I told him I had enough and I was done! Wouldnt you know it...he changed again. Got rid of his race car and is spending time with us. The relationship he has with the boys is fantastic now...they forgave and forgot so easily..but I am having a hard time doing that. I am waiting for him to find something else that will take all his time away from the family.

The other dilemma I am in is there is someone else I have feelings for. This is a man that I have been talking to for a couple years. We started out as friends...and I dont know what happened...it turned into something more. I have never been unfaithful to my husband and from what I have read, this seems to be an emotional affair I am having...but there is something about this other man that will not let me let go of him. He knows my situation and we have communicated rather openly and honestly(which is something I never really had with my husband...even since the beginning of our marriage). We have tried to not talk to each other...we have tried no communication at all, it just doesnt seem to work. You know when something happens and you feel like you just have to tell someone or you are going to burst????? He is the one I think of calling, not my husband. And yes, I have told my husband about him...we are trying to work through it, but i cant get this other man out of my heart or thoughts. But I have also told him that if I do leave my husband, it wont be for him...it has to be for myself and I will want time alone...and he is ok with that and understands.

My husband tells me to folllow my heart because it has never been wrong....but my heart is not with him, and I have told him this. I also told my husband that the main reason I am still here is because of the boys. So he does know where I stand and how I feel, we have had some very in depth converstions in the past few months. I have come to realize that my heart was gone a long time ago. I have not been in love with him for many years. I have stayed because I was scared and out of obligation to my marriage vows and my kids. Never in a million years would I have thought I would ever be interested in another man besides my husband...but he lost my heart a long time ago, and now I dont know what to do. He has been trying so hard to right all his wrongs(and believe me..there are more than what I listed here...I was trying to be nice to him and not air all his dirty laundry to people).

He is trying to give me space, but I feel like I am being smothered. I walk down the hallway to the bathroom, and he asks...where you going?...does it really matter where I am going? I am not walking out the door...geesh...he constantly tells me he loves me, and I feel bad that I cant say it back and mean it. He told me it breaks his heart when I dont say it back...so I do say it back so I dont hurt him more. His whole world fell apart last year when I told him I was done...and now he is working over time to "fix it". I dont know if I will ever be able to trust that this new him is for real or not..and quite frankly sometimes I just want out. I have come to a point in my life where I am finally fed up with people telling me what to do and how I should behave(yes he has done that too).

Anyone have any advice or some great wisdom that could help me through this? And yes I pray every night that my head and heart can be cleared so I can figure out what to do. When he told me to follow my heart, I told him I did that before and it didnt work out so great..so now I let my head lead me...and my head is leading me away from him.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

sprite,
this is such a sad story, for him as well as you. the other man is a problem, and you know that. he says he understands, you believe him. but you've not lived with him for 20 years. who's to say what your attitude would be of him 20 years in.

i see that your husband hasn't had much problem making adjustments in himself when he knows what the problems are. he has always been able to let go of material things for you. because he's a guy. he can quantify "things." feelings are a different story maybe.

you, it seems, have some of those "walls" that you've seen described here. when you walk by him in the hallway, do you automatically have contempt for whatever verbal encounter you're about to have with him. in other words, do you become a self-fulfilling prophet to your feeling of "smothered" or anything else?

back to the other guy. it is an EA best i can tell. that relationship has stolen positive energy from you when you could have used it. it might have become an excuse for not giving credit where credit was due in regard to your husband's effort to cure the problems. i'm sure he's a great guy who completely understands you. we all do when we think there's something in it for us. and i don't mean sex necessarily. maybe you are fulfilling some of his emotional need too.

you wanted to go to school. your husband wouldn't "let you." you have deserved resentment for that. the race car. took away from holidays and family times. you resent that. what other realistic resentments do you have. make a list. some things you can't change. they have passed. but the things he can change. will he? sounds like the answer is he will try. always has before. so....


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## magicsunset08 (Oct 30, 2008)

It is obvious your husband is a control freak. You have to quit letting him control you. When we get married we get so complacent with ourselves and so dependent on our spouse. Do some things for yourself. It sounds like your hubby loves you, but tends to be on the selfish side. People don't change over ninght. I think your hubby can change. It sounds to me that he will start to make some changes to make you happy and then once he feels you are satisfied he goes right back to his old ways. Only you can change that. You need to do things for yourself. Of course, I would not reccomend adultery. I am talking about school. There are so many ways to get it done. If you were to go to beauty school and get it done without him, just think of how rewarding it would be. Marriage is a 2 way street. We are supposed to support and encourage on another. As men, we are supposed to love our wives as Christ did the Church. Often times it just does not happen. In times like these you have to buckle down get fed up and do it yourself. I bet he will start to value more then. People can change, but they have to have a reason and they must want to change. The ball is in your court. Are you gonna play offense or defense?


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

He is willing to change and has a LOT. One of our dreams when we first got together was to have a farm. Now we are looking at moving out of state and getting me "that horse farm I always wanted". But how sincere is it? He keeps telling me he will go anywhere with me, but I sometimes feel like I am using him now to get where we should have been years ago. I want to move and have wanted to for years...but he wasnt ready...he couldnt leave his racing partner behind...now he is ready....Why now?

And no I dont have contempt for whatever verbal encounter we are about to have. But I do not expect to be questioned when I am walking down the hallway of my own house as to what my intentions are. 

And I do not believe I have become a self-fulfilling prophet to my feelings of being smothered. I am assuming by you saying this you are asking if I am bringing it on myself so to speak. That I am not really being smothered but only I feel that way. That is not the case. When you tell someone you need some space and time to heal..does that mean you need to stand over their shoulder all the time, or that you can come home early from work everyday? The man has not worked a full day in I dont know how long...I just want time for me without worrying that I need to go do something because he is home. When he is home all the time, he makes me feel like I have to be doing something that he will approve of.

The adjustments he has made in the past have been small and do not last long. He even admitted to me that when he used to apologize for things..he never really meant it....he was just saying it to passify the situation. So how do I know he isnt doing that this time?

Yes..I have some walls up and I am not entirely sure I want to let them down for him.

Yes he has always tried before, but it never lasted. It was only met with another broken promise that things will change and they end up going back to what they were...but just a new venue. 

How do I get over the things that can't be changed? Those were the things that put this wall up.

Make a list...hmmm, do you want me to make a list here or just for me? cuz I already have my list for me and its pretty long. I was always able to talk myself in and out of feelings because I felt I had to in order to keep going and keep everyone around me happy. I let way too many things just roll off my back, but I cant seem to do that anymore.

Little things like when I was pregnant and had ONE craving for a butterfinger candy bar....he didnt have time to stop on his way home..so my brother in law went out and got me one. Like being told "you arent allowed to have post partum depression" not that I did...but the way it was said made me scared to death if I did. I have had bouts of depression and it hasnt been pretty..I was scared to death to tell him when I was diagnosed, but of course went off my meds which made me feel great, but he didnt like who I was when i was taking them. Like when you have 2 kids in diapers in the middle of winter asking him to pick up a gallon of milk on his way home...NOPE, not enough time, he had to get out to his race car. Like expecting dinner on the table only to scoff it down in front of the tv then rush of to the race shop. Like expecting the air conditioning to be on on a 75 degree day when he wasnt even in the house...guess where he was? yep..in his race shop. little things like not knowing his boys knew how to throw a football until they 2 years ago..they didnt learn it from him. I used to be able to hide my feelings from him because I always dreaded talking to him about anything important...he always seemed to find a way to turn it around and I felt bad I had negative feelings about anything. Like him never being able to take blame for anything he did wrong..it was always the fault of someone or something else. Like never listening to me when i had an idea...but when his mother thought of the same idea...it was great. Like him expecting me to be at the race track when they raced..but didnt let me drive my boys by myself...so I always had to find someone to go with us unless I wanted to be there for 14 hours which was not my idea of fun. Like getting kicked out ofyour own garage cuz you ask too many questions....so many little things...they may not seem much to anyone else..but when added all up it makes for a great wall.

And yes I know the other guy is a problem, I am working on that.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

And yes magic, my husband was a control freak. He claims he is not now....but I havent really had the chance to call him on it. He tries to spend every waking minute with me and I have no chance to do something on my own. He always wants to be there. If I say I am going shopping...he says...let me get my coat. And I did think about going to school, but at this point I would not go for cosmotology as I have arthritis in my lower back and hips and can not stand all day cutting peoples hair. I tried to go once for tax preparation..I am good with numbers as long as it isnt algebra...but that was a no go too. He didnt want to be sued if I made a mistake on someones taxes..which I tried explaining wouldnt happen..but again, he is smarter than me so what do I know(thats how I felt before..I am much stronger and wiser now).

When I met him I had some major self esteem issues which I was getting over until he bacame this other person that I didnt marry. Then the issues came back because I realized that he is much like my step mother. If you are told you are worthless and good for nothing long enough...sometimes you tend to start believing it. But I have wised up over the past few years. A part of me will always allow him to control me and that is because of how I was brought up and how I thought a wife was supposed to be. But I don't let him do it now...not to the extent he did before. Of course he didn't see it as being controlling...his intention was to protect me(so he says)..but from what I am not sure!


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

self-fulfilling prophet like "i just know (blank) is gonna happen" and when anything appearing to be similar to (blank) happens, your inner self kinda says "see, you were right."

butterfingers. i get that. that's "one of those things" that we just don't GET (see my post regarding "frequency/broadcast/receiver)
cuz we never got that craving. at no time in your pregancy. sound stupid? we are stupid/ignorant about stuff like that. sorry to say, say with post partum. i still don't very well understand it. and we have 4 kids!

oh, this is just for you. you say you're good with math but not so with algrebra? you've been doing algebra since grade school, the complexities of it overwhelmed you. find a good community ed course on algebra for your confidence. you'll excel. then go do the tax preparation course. you can do that from your house if you'd like.

fifteen divided by what equals three? post your answer. you know algebra, i promise.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

5...but thats not algebra...thats simple division..lol

and my point with the butterfinger was not so much the candy bar(and I know I didnt make this clear) but it was just one simple thing that would have made me happy beyond belief that day...and he couldnt even do that for ME.

Actually I have taken some on line accounting classes to refresh my memory...its been a long time since high school for me. I like the idea of conquring the algebra thing....but I hate it. My boys ask me for help and I have no clue what I am doing...I just tell them to go google it or go ask.com

You see I said I was a basket case, and I really am...I want to go to school to learn something because he always told me I couldnt, but I dont really want to go to work. I LOVE being a stay at home mom...I have been spoiled because I never had to work...he didnt want me to..part of me resents that...but the bigger part of me enjoys being home. I think it just goes back to him telling me what I could and couldnt do again.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Sprite said:


> 5...but thats not algebra...thats simple division..lol
> .


really? and regardless of the mathematical function, algebra is just a combination of those functions (addition/subtraction/multiplication/division) to solve for a variable. if i'd have written the equation "15/x=3. solve for x" would it look more like algebra to you then?



Sprite said:


> and my point with the butterfinger was not so much the candy bar(and I know I didnt make this clear) but it was just one simple thing that would have made me happy beyond belief that day...and he couldnt even do that for ME.
> .


no, i understood you, completely. when i was recovering from my stroke, part of the therapy was speech therapy. some of speech therapy was learning to swallow/eat again. i wasn't allowed to have certain consistencies of foods. one day i was feeling confident and asked my wife for a slurpie. go get me a slurpy, pleeezzze. she said no that i wasn't allowed. well, one of the nurses (a cute one as it turns out, and one that my wife identified as "a chick i had my eye on") heard me begging for a slurpie and ran across the street and got me one. well needless to say, i didn't choke to death on it and it MADE MY DAY. so i get it.


Sprite said:


> Actually I have taken some on line accounting classes to refresh my memory...its been a long time since high school for me. I like the idea of conquring the algebra thing....but I hate it. My boys ask me for help and I have no clue what I am doing...I just tell them to go google it or go ask.com
> .


i could teach you bonehead algebra right here or via PM. it's not as hard as you are making it, i promise.


Sprite said:


> You see I said I was a basket case, and I really am...I want to go to school to learn something because he always told me I couldnt, but I dont really want to go to work. I LOVE being a stay at home mom...I have been spoiled because I never had to work...he didnt want me to..part of me resents that...but the bigger part of me enjoys being home. I think it just goes back to him telling me what I could and couldnt do again.


my wife/nursing school. and you know what. once she was accepted, and i congradulated her on the accomplishment, she decided not to attend. i even offered to help pay for it. you're not a basket case. you want to accomplish something. that's the reason i suggested the community ed class for starters.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Sprite-

You are certainly not a basket case. It sounds more like you just woke up from a very long sleep.

I don't think you realise the dynamics of what you have done. You have put yourself in quite a good position, and all you need to do now is click your fingers, and wait for the magic 

What on earth am I talking about? 

What I am saying is that you FINALLY gave him an ultimatum, and reading what you say about his response, especially his willingness to buy a farm etc., you have won!

So what you need to do is make a small list of priorities and get him to focus on no more than 2 or 3 at a time. Any more than that will defocus him. Don't worry! - When he has mastered every thing on your list, you can knock of the first 3 items, and put on the next 3. You need to explain to him about the space thing, and not following you around the house, and questioning you. You need to really explain that you need x hours a day without him breathing down your neck until you get it out of your system. (It is interesting how at one time you wanted nothing more than his company, and now you don't want it. That's resentment for you...)

I'm not suggesting you turn into a nag-bag, just be firm and reasonable at the same time. In return, you need to let down your wall, or he will eventually realise there is nothing in it for him - so don't blow it. Also you should praise him when he gets things right.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

MT is right. you have given him half-assed ultimatums, and he has always responded. maybe now is the time to tell him you want that ferrari.(kidding) but you have always hand the upper hand and didn't really play it to it's full potential.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

Thanks MT, what you say makes total sense. I have explained the whole following me around thing to him and he understnads where I am coming from. His point of view is that he doesn't want to give me any alone time because then I have time to "think" about things. He doesn't want me to think because he knows it makes my resentment come closer to the surface and I become withdrawn and angry. I do praise him...I keep telling him that everything he is doing is the right thing right now, it just isn't effecting me like I think it should be. He leaves me notes all the time now in odd places just to let me know he is thinking about me, and most of the notes are him thanking me for being me...which is super sweet...but I needed this years ago, not now!

As far as the list goes..I have a mental list, but I havent actually wrote it out on a piece of paper. My top priorities that he had to work on were his relationship with his boys(which he has turned around completely and finally has a relationship with them that he should have had all along..but that still needs work), and his brother, and his friends he has lost/neglected/let down over the years. He always treated his brother like he was nothing and never gave him credit for being able to think on his own. Remember Dan(husband) was the type of person that thought you were wrong if you didn't see things the way he did. He always thought that he was the only smart one and his way was the ONLY right way, so he condemned his brother for a lot of his actions and thoughts. He was very judgemental of people and very prejudice. I say was because I have rubbed off on him and he seems to have switched sides of the fence on this issue. He has worked on his relationship with his brother and I am SO thankful for this. His bro is going through a divorce right now and it seems the rest of the family is "taking his wife's side" and leaving him feel like an outsider within his own family. Its pretty sad and it pisses me off!!! No one should be taking sides...they both need support to get through this. When Dan first decided to call his brother just to talk to him(for the first time in his life he didnt feel the need to tell his brother what to do), I had to coach him on how to approach it. He actually listened to me and now they have a relationship they should have had all along. We seem to be his brothers comfort zone, and its great!

As far as the friends on his list he lost/neglected over the years..well, he feels they are secondary to me and his boys, so he tries to call them when he can...but they keep playing phone tag. I remind him that they are unaware of this change in him so it may take time until they actually get back in touch they way they should be as close friends. 

We have been communicating on a level we never have before and its great, but sometimes I feel its a little too late. We started this little thing we do where when we do sit down and talk we ask each other "what is one thing you would have done differently?" and this seems to help a little. I feel he completely understnads where I am coming from because all the things he says he would do differently are all the things that lead to this mess in the first place. My response to that question is that I would not have myself allow him to do this to me and his boys. I should have been firmer from the beginning.

He is trying everything to get the wall to come down and tells me that if I feel the need to yell at him, or hit him, or whatever it takes...he is going to keep chipping away untill all the bricks come down. I don't want to keep bringing things up tho because I don't want to keep reminding him and i don't want to turn into a nag-bag as you put it. I feel like what is done is done and it can't be changed so there is no point in harping on it..but he thinks if I harp on it...it will help get it off my chest. I just don't want to keep hurting him because when he thinks about how badly he screwed things up and how he handles things in the past..he gets upset with himself and I dont want him to keep beating himself up about it. I don't see the point in that. He finally feels good about who he is as a person and I don't want to take that away from him!

And voivod...its funny you mention a Ferrari...but it's actually a Mustang I am after..unfortunately the one I want is WAY out of our price range...and it only comes in stick shift which I dont know how to drive..lol! I sometimes feel like I am going through a mid-life crisis..do women do this? I have never had the desire to have a certain type of car...it never mattered to me what I drove as long as it was dependble and comfortable for the kids, and I fit behind the wheel! I am short and we all know that only about 3% of the cars out there are made to fit people with short legs...lol...so I drive a full size conversion van..it just fits!

I now know that I do have the upper hand, and it feels good for a change, but I never knew I actually had it. I think if this would have happened 10 years ago, we would have been divorced by now...he was not in the same place he is now, and 10 years ago he probably would not have cared if I left him as long as he still had his racing. But it's different now, and I do believe we have a chance..IF I can let the walls down. They just seem to put themselves there sometimes wether I want them there or not. He will say or do something that will reminds me of something in the past...and woosh...theres that wall again. I dont know how to let it go and I am not entirely sure I want to let it go.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Sprite-

It often happens in relationships that people have a list of complaints at a certain time, and although they go unfulfilled, at the time, some time later, they get done. Meanwhile, the person with the list says, that would have been good if you had done that earlier, but now it's too late. In your particular case, it appears simple in that it's one sided - only you have the list.

There are other threads on this forum, where both sides have a list, and both sides are fulfilled, but at the wrong time. This can go on and on in a terrible cycle. I call this being out of sync.

If you want to get into sync, all one person has to do, is accept the timing of the delivery of the list *as it is now*. As you are the only one with the list, only you have the power to do this. You had a reason for building the wall, but the reason has past. Now you're just wallowing in it. you're wasting your time and his.

Of course, he is not perfect, and other complaints will arise, but if you don't realise what you have now, and stop this cycle, you will end up divorced.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

I have asked him for a list...he has nothing he wishes I had done differently. It makes me wonder what he is holding back on.

you say "If you want to get into sync, all one person has to do, is accept the timing of the delivery of the list as it is now. As you are the only one with the list, only you have the power to do this. You had a reason for building the wall, but the reason has past. Now you're just wallowing in it. you're wasting your time and his."

I do not feel I am wallowing in anything and if anything, he has wasted my time for the past 15 years of a 20 year marriage. I can not bring myself to accept the timing of this delivery because the reason(s) have passed! 

I didn't build the wall on my own.

After 15 years of neglecting his wife and children...how do you suggest I flip that switch? How do you suggest I start trusting him again? I can't just simply say...ok, its done and over with..lets move on like nothing ever happened..I did that way too many times during the course of my marriage. I had to pick my battles and since I always lost...I learned to just deal with it and keep the family together for my kids. I am not saying I am perfect...I am far from it...but it is one sided in a way because I never did anything destructive in the marriage other than to allow him to control, intimidate and threaten me. I allowed him to have what he wanted and do his thing because he made all the money and silly me supported him through it all. I allowed it to be all about him..and that is what I would change if I could. I have told him this and all he says is not to blame myself.

For years I wished he would have listened to me and he didnt. Now he is and that is great. If things were the way they are now 10 years ago....there would not be any issues...I would have been able to let it slide of my shoulders because the wall was just beginning to be built. But now I am having a hard time letting that wall go because I feel if I do, I will end up being disappointed as I have been before. I want to keep myself guarded because I will not allow myself to be hurt or disappointed in the future.

I do realize what I have now...I have a husband that any woman would want. He is a good man and is now ready to give to the family. But that doesn't negate what he has done in the past and that doesn't make me trust him. Part of me wants to be divorced...I dont want to have to answer to anyone ever again...I want to be me without someone telling me how I should behave..I dont want to be dependant on anyone ever again.

Any suggestions on how to get rid of that mentality?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

sprite said:


> Any suggestions on how to get rid of that mentality?


Your mentality is fundamentally sound. Why would you want to get rid of it?

What you need to do is decide if your husband, the way he is now, *can* be trusted. As for if he can *continue* to be trusted... The truth is, you probably need to be vigilant.

But let's be honest here. Most people deserve each other. Are you better than him? If you are, I suggest you move on and find your equal. If not... Then forgive him, and move on, within your marriage.

He may have supplied the bricks in the past, but you cemented them in place. Have a heart, and forgive him. He can do no more than he is doing, as far as I can tell from your words.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

To be honest I believe him when he says he has changed for good. I believe him when he says he will never treat me that way again...but how do I get the trust back? 

I do not believe anyone is any better than the next person...we are just different, BUT, I have been "better than him" in our marriage because I havent broken promises over and over again. We have never been "equals" in our relationship..he is the man/I am the woman..we both have "jobs" within the relationship, but none of them ever amounted to us being equals. I did what I was supposed to do as a wife and mother and I did them because I wanted a strong stable family. I did it because I truely loved him more than anything at one point and I wanted him to have what he wanted..I think I let him have too much! We are trying to move on within our marriage, but it is hard when I don't have those feelings for him.

You say to have a heart and forgive him..well, I have forgiven him for so many things in the past I feel like my forgiveness has been worn out. When he told me he used to apologize just to basically shut me up...that hurt and makes me believe he might not be truely sorry now. I guess I should take my own advice here and tell myself that only time and patience will tell... but im tired of time, and waiting to see what is going to happen. I cant forgive him so easily this time, my head wont allow me to.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Sprite said:


> To be honest I believe him when he says he has changed for good. I believe him when he says he will never treat me that way again...but how do I get the trust back?
> 
> You say to have a heart and forgive him..well, I have forgiven him for so many things in the past I feel like my forgiveness has been worn out. When he told me he used to apologize just to basically shut me up...that hurt and makes me believe he might not be truely sorry now. I guess I should take my own advice here and tell myself that only time and patience will tell... but im tired of time, and waiting to see what is going to happen. I cant forgive him so easily this time, my head wont allow me to.


it sound to me, based on what you've said to this point, that you have forgiven him. to admit that, however, is a blow to your self-esteem or self-worth or self-whatever. i understand this thinking. he probably does too. do you?


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

Wow..you are absolutely right. I have always said(to myself of course) in this relationship that I would forgive him of anything but an affair.

Part of me does feel like I have already forgiven him...but I cant admit that...to myself or him. It just makes me feel weak. I think it plays more on my self-worth than my esteem. But, a part of me doesnt want to forgive him because that makes me feel like he gets what he wants AGAIN, and I do not want this to happen. I know this sounds mean and I am not sure where it comes from because I am not a mean or vendictive person. I have never had a problem forgiving people of just about anything.

We had a long heart to heart last night and I told him how I feel about htis situation. The example I gave him is this.....say you have a friend that you really like, but they constantly use you and take advantage of your kindness and generosity but never give anything back. I dont know about the rest of you, but at a certain point I get fed up with and simply stop being that person's friend. We wont allow ourselves to be used by a friend or family member...but why is it we allow ourselves to be used by our spouse?

I do not know if he would understand your idea voi...but I do know he understands a LOT more than I gave him credit for. He told me last night that he has been posting on some marriage forums like this one and some of the women that respond to his post he sound just like me he says. They have been through this too and it is helping him understand me and where I am coming from better.

I am so glad I found this sight because it has helped me communicate with him better and understand his feelings. We tossed around the idea of going to see a counselor again.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Sprite said:


> It just makes me feel weak. I think it plays more on my self-worth than my esteem. But, a part of me doesnt want to forgive him because that makes me feel like he gets what he wants AGAIN, and I do not want this to happen. I know this sounds mean and I am not sure where it comes from because I am not a mean or vendictive person. I have never had a problem forgiving people of just about anything.


I think you have to separate what he did, from who you are. His actions are not a reflection of your worth. Forgiving him doesnt mean he got away with anything, or that you're allowing him to abuse you, it just means that you love him and are willing to give him another chance.


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## sunnygirl (Nov 23, 2008)

I'm really sorry for the situation you are in.

I wonder if you shouldn't consider a trial separation? My sister did this with her husband recently for about 9 months. She realized she loved him again and he has changed.They are now back together and doing well. Maybe just seeing life without him might make you begin to re-appreciate him and to fully forgive him for his past. Not saying it would work, but it MAY be worth a try. It sounds like you never really had your chance to be free and just think about YOU for 20 years.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

sunnygirl said:


> I'm really sorry for the situation you are in.
> 
> I wonder if you shouldn't consider a trial separation? My sister did this with her husband recently for about 9 months. She realized she loved him again and he has changed.They are now back together and doing well. Maybe just seeing life without him might make you begin to re-appreciate him and to fully forgive him for his past. Not saying it would work, but it MAY be worth a try. It sounds like you never really had your chance to be free and just think about YOU for 20 years.


THank you, and you are absolutely right. I have not been able to be ME for a long time. I have suggested a seperation several times, but he will have nothing to do with it. His thinking is that if he "allows" me to have that time apart from him it will make us grow farther apart. He thinks that if we are not together on a daily basis, I will not be able to see the full effects of this change in him. He has however told me that he will "stay right here until I kick him out"..meaning it would be for good...no in between. I know that may seem harsh, but in a way he may be right. By us not seperating and still bieng in the same house...it forces us to communicate. We have been communicating on a level which we NEVER have before and it is refreshing. It is so nice to be able to tell him something without him telling me I am wrong. Another reason he doesn't want a seperation is because he KNOWS I am stronger than I have ever been and he has told me that he believes I can handle anything right now, and that scares him.

My question now is how do I get him to stop being so extreme? He does everything for ME now, and it makes me feel selfish. As an example, he went grocery shopping last week..I expressed sometime throughout the week that I would like some yogurt(but we didnt have any at the time) so he bought some....my youngest son asked me how one of the flavors tasted and I told him to have one, its good, and he told me that Dad said he couldnt because Dad bought them for ME. Wow!
I have NEVER bought anything that everyone could not eat...if it is there in the cupboards, buy all means eat it if you want is my thinking. So I shared it all with my kids and I told him I did. I know it is the thought that counts...but geesh dont tell my kids they cant have something they like too because it is "mine".


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Sprite said:


> My question now is how do I get him to stop being so extreme? He does everything for ME now, and it makes me feel selfish. As an example, he went grocery shopping last week..I expressed sometime throughout the week that I would like some yogurt(but we didnt have any at the time) so he bought some....my youngest son asked me how one of the flavors tasted and I told him to have one, its good, and he told me that Dad said he couldnt because Dad bought them for ME. Wow!


Hey Sprite...I have to admit, my first thought was, wow, his new obsessive focus is on YOU now... 

You married an extreme guy...I don't know that you can get him to stop if that's who he is...as long as his focus is in the right place, it's a good thing...really...and my husband has said the same thing...I bought those for your mom...which is fine by me...doesn't mean I can't share but he just doesn't want the kids to gobble it all up and leave none for mom


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

is it a bad thing that he seems obsessed? Sometimes I think it is, but I like being the focus of his attention for a change. I just don't want him to forget about everything else in life like his kids. He has always been the type to only be able to focus and commit himself to one thing at a time. But I do like the fact it is now ME


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

If he completely ignores the kids now and only wants to spend his time energy with you, then yes, it can be a problem. But, if he is wanting to do special things just for you I think it is actually healthy for the kids to see that he cherishes you in that way...that's what they will then learn to expect from relationships as they get older. Kids are such an important part of a mom's life that if he is focused on making you happy it likely will naturally transfer to them...there are days when I see my daughter dealing with the latest middle school drama and talk to my husband about it & later I will see him shooting baskets with her in the driveway ... being their step-dad he doesn't always feel that natural connection and they don't always reach out to him but he wants us all happy at the end of the day.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

No, he does anything BUT ignore the kids now. It's awesome to see them have the relationship they have now. He actually MAKES time for them now, and I am so happy for this. But it makes me feel guilty when he does stuff like the yougurt deal because the way the kids say "oh we can't, its for MOM...." then they slightly roll theirs eyes..I don't know how to react to that. It makes me feel like I should be sorry. When my H wasnt around, everything was for the kids, and now that he has finally stepped up to the plate, its NOT all about the kids any more. Granted they are teenagers and dont need "mommy" all the time, but this is a big change for them.

I have noticed a change in everyones level of happiness since this whole "new Dan" came about. I think the one thing that is breaking down my wall the most is seeing the relationship my kids finally have with a Dad that actually cares. I just don't want them to have to go through a broken promise or dream the way I have in the past.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

It is a big change...it sounds very much like the change in my marriage. I had the same guilt (mine are teens too) about going out on dates again with my husband...they did make comments that I was never home anymore but in reality, I work from home and was always home or with them so a few hours out a few times a week was not something they were used to. Now I order them a pizza on those nights and I think they actually enjoy a few hours of freedom...I noticed my daughter's IPOD speakers on the dining room table so she must know she doesn't have to use her headphones while doing homework downstairs and my son, well, I don't even know he would know we were gone if I didn't tell him or if he didn't see the pizza! 

My kids have rolled their eyes for the same things...and I just say 'awww he loves me' and then they roll their eyes again 

But honestly, they want more than anything to know things are good with mom and dad, but kids (especially teens) can be very self-centered when it comes to the attention they get from their parents so I believe it's good for them to see parents giving each other some attention (at some point sooner than later they will be adults and it won't be all about them anymore)

Try not to focus on 'what if' as far as broken promises. Breaking down your wall is probably all that is needed for all of you to go forward as a happy family. Once the ball starts rolling, it just gets better. The kids are seeing that dad cares and dad is seeing how much they really need him, that his value and purpose within your family goes way beyond being a good provider.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

Thank you so much Swedish! I have noticed that I have started to become a person I never thought I would be, and I don't like it. I have always been able to forgive my husband for anything, and i havent been able to do that lately. I have always been the positive one, and I am being negative most of the time. I am tired of being negative...thats NOT who I am, nor who I want to be. I have always been the one to hold the family together and I feel like I am not doing that now. But I also feel that if I just let myself go and be carefree like I used to be....things will go back to how they were before. I enjoy being the center of my husbands attention, but it makes me feel selfish. I enjoy when him and I go out and spend some time together without the kids, but it also makes me feel like I am neglecting them. I really enjoy when my husband helps me with the routine chores..but it also makes me feel like I am neglecting my responsibilities.

My kids are worried about us. They see Mom and Dad having 4hour long conversations that never happened before....they wonder what is up, but I think are afraid to ask. I havent told them about all of what is going on because I dont want them to worry. They know that "Mom and Dad are having a few problems" but they dont know the extent of it. But they do see us working through it. I asked my oldest son(he was the one who had the biggest problem with Dad..almost to the point of hating him) if what Dad is doing now, and how he is now, has made up for the past....and he told me yes. My youngest son is not one to talk about his feelings very often, but he is enjoying his Dad so much now. My youngest asked me one day a few weeks ago...how are you doing? and I told him I am fine(I am always fine to them) and he said NO...how are you really doing??(this was his way of asking me what is going on) and I simply told him that I wished I could forgive Dad as easily as he and his brother had...he simply told me, it will be ok, and he hugged me(which is not normal for him). I wanted to cry!

Now things are the way I always envisioned them...a truely happy family(for the most part). I am tired of keeping a part of my wall in place, but I feel if I dont keep it there, things will go back to how they used to be. I cant handle that again. I feel that my husband and I have been communicating on a level we NEVER have before and its great, but I dont want to lose that. I absolutely love the relationship he has with his boys, I dont want to EVER see that lost again. I am just afraid that if I let my guard down completely, what we have now wont stay and that makes me sad. I dont want to lose the family we have now. How can I be sure that wont happen? Part of the reason we are all so close now is because that wall is still there(although it is much much smaller than when I started posting here) and Dad/Husband is still trying to break it down. I just sometimes think that if he has nothing to work at, he will stop being this man. I really like this man he is now, he is fun, he makes me laugh, he makes me feel good about me, his kids absolutely adore him. How can I be sure we wont lose that if I do let my wall down? Thats my biggest fear right now.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

okay sprite, i've read and read this thread, i can't figure out exactly what the "now problem" is with you two. i see alot of similarities between you and beth in the "resent" category. you guys both hold on to resentment for a long time. and regardless of the steps being taken to recify the situation. but your husband never committed adultery, right? he's never beat your kids physically, right? if you are having 4 hour conversations about ANYTHING, that's good, right. have you not become your own worst enemy with your resentment? does it not wear you down to the point that the "now" stuff if more difficult to deal with?

i wonder about forgiveness with you. really, have you? can you?


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Sprite said:


> I enjoy being the center of my husbands attention, but it makes me feel selfish. I enjoy when him and I go out and spend some time together without the kids, but it also makes me feel like I am neglecting them. I really enjoy when my husband helps me with the routine chores..but it also makes me feel like I am neglecting my responsibilities.


I can relate to this...When you become accustomed to putting all of your time & energy into your family, it takes time to get used to having help and appreciating it for what it is. I find myself reminding myself that what I was doing before was 'too much' and what I have now is 'a normal balance.' The normal balance is what makes marriages stay strong, when you don't feel overwhelmed, unappreciated, overworked.


Sprite said:


> Now things are the way I always envisioned them...a truely happy family(for the most part).


That's how I feel now too. My wall came down because I knew deep down it was the best thing to do for me and my family. I still have doubts and still have trouble fully opening up with my feelings, but at some point I just decided the wall was really just me trying to protect and control what is going on around me...I think it mainly came down to me feeling I will be fine no matter how things turn out but instead of spending time worrying about that I will just make the most of each day & if things go South it isn't for lack of putting myself out there and trying!


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

LMAO!!! I have forgiven him of so many things. Those are the things that I was able to let go of. Some of the things he did were too big to let go of so easily. But I am getting there. And yes it has worn me down, I am so tired of the resentment, but sometimes it just pops up on its own. We could be having a great day, and he might make a suggestion....a suggestion I made years ago, but he never listened to me then...and he sees my facial expression change and asks "what?"...a year ago I would have just gotten angry about it...today, its a different story, we can actually talk about it. It is kind of like a reminder to me to never let things get as bad as they were 2 years ago. WE hold on to the resentment so we don't forget. But I think my resentment is now turning to just bad memories and things not to do in the future.

My now problem is that I don't want things to change back. I want us to keep having conversations like we do, and the time we spend together to stay that way. I do not have any guarentee that once this is all "fixed" we will be as close as we are now. We, for once, have a common goal we are working on which is our marriage. If we don't have to work at it like we do now, what will become of it? 

And yes I am a very forgiving person, I can forgive him. I am just not ready to tell him that because I am afraid we will fall back into the "routine" of marriage. I love the fact that we are working on something together. Something big and important! Deep down I know he will not change back to the person he used to be, and deep down I have already forgiven him. I am still here with him and do not plan on leaving or kicking him out unless we have a major malfunction(which I don't see happening). 

We are on the road to recovery and have actually come to a turning point in our relationship. Actually I have come to a turning point(I think)! This is the 3rd Tuesday in a row that I am honestly able to say I am "good"...meaning I am happy with the way things are. Usually one of us or both of us will fall apart on Mondays, so we are both taking this as a good sign. I am actually starting to have moments where I feel I WANT to hug him or kiss him or tell him I love him, which I have not felt in a long long time. It feels pretty good. I just don't ever want it to go away again!!!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Sprite said:


> I am actually starting to have moments where I feel I WANT to hug him or kiss him or tell him I love him, which I have not felt in a long long time. It feels pretty good. I just don't ever want it to go away again!!!


Holding back your love is not the way to foster more love. Give him his reward, before he gets to heaven 

I know you worry about him slacking off and taking it easy, but part of that is a projection from you. You are worried that YOU will slack off and take it easy. Don't let all the good stuff come from him. In good marriages, the spouses compete to see who can make the other the happiest.

It's not about effort. To use your above quote as an example, you are actually using effort to suppress giving him a hug. It would have been easier to have hugged him, and let the words of love bubble out from your mouth. 

All the time we project on to our loved ones. The person who catches that and turns it around is a rare, rare individual indeed.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> I know you worry about him slacking off and taking it easy, but part of that is a projection from you. You are worried that YOU will slack off and take it easy. Don't let all the good stuff come from him. In good marriages, the spouses compete to see who can make the other the happiest.


Well put, MT. Resentment and fear are excellent barriers to putting yourself out there, but once you make that leap and just starting giving, making your spouse happy marriage doesn't feel like work.


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## skinman (Nov 5, 2008)

Sprite,

its so nice to hear a success story... I wish you the best and hope everything works out for you... Jason suggested I check out your thread to show that sometimes the hard work does pay off in the end... Sadly my marriage seems doomed my wife has no desire to try and save what we had or still could have...

I wish you continued success and much happiness in your life...you deserve it... 

Skinman...


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

MT, just so you know, I do not supress what ever it is I may be feeling at a particular moment(now...a year ago sure...but not now). I came to the conclusion that if I dont act on how I am feeling at the moment, it does no good in the process I am going through to be myself. Good, bad or indifferent. If I feel like hugging him, I do..same with kissing him and telling him I love him..same with if I get upset and need him to understand why something upset me.

I want to thank all of you for your insight and advice. It has helped me a lot. I also want to thank you all for being so positive in your responses. When I first started posting here, I was leaning towards divorce...and if your responses would have been leaning that way too, I might not have stuck around to see how good it really can be. I especially want to thank Voivod....your thread and story helped me the most. It really amazes me how many couples actually go through hard times, and they seem to be pretty close to the same reasons...lack of communication...loss of respect..and loss of what brought them together in the first place.

We were talking about a month ago, and Dan told me his biggest fear was that he would die before we got our issues solved. He was afraid that something would happen to him and he would never hear me tell him I loved him again..and mean it. That killed me! I began to ask myself what kind of person am I to keep him feeling so bad?!?!?!? I think that was when I started letting my heart take back over. I am glad I did! 

I am no longer in need of advice on my thread, we are on the right track and working together to keep it this way. But, I may come back if I have a bad day, or if my head wants to be stubborn and take back over(which I honestly hope it never does)!


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

Ok, I lied! I still do need advice. Here I am a month after my last post, and I feel like I am back to square 1.

I have no idea what happened in the past 2 weeks, but some how I lost the feelings I explained above. I am back to feeling like I don't love him, and I do not know what happened to bring this on. There are mornings I wake up and just lay in bed a little longer so I don't have to be with him or talk to him. I find that the things that bothered me about him before...the things I tried to push to the back of my mind telling mysef they didn't matter...are bothering me again. I find myself hoping he doesn't say he loves me before we hang up the phone because I don't want to have to respond back.

What is wrong with me? Why cant I just let it go?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

It will pass. Just let it evaporate.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

How do you know it will pass? And how am I supposed to just let it evaporate?

Do I just tell myself to get over it and force myself to forget it and move on?

Is this a "normal" thing when when you are trying to repair a marriage? I honestly didn't think I would fall back into this feeling again and i feel lost. I don't know what to do now.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Yes it is normal to go up and down. few situations in life are a straight line graph. Just wait and it will pass. Not indulging in the feeling too much will make it pass quicker. Not picking fights with H while you have these feelings will also make it go quicker.

It may help to apologise to him if you have been snappy lately. Just say, you've been having a bad few days, and you need a few hugs. Telling him you need him may help both of you.

But I have to say, most feelings are actually an illusion, so you don't need to take them too seriously. Just enjoy the feelings as they come and go, even the sad ones and the empty ones.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

I try not to indulge in my feelings no matter what they may be at the moment. I know that I have a depression issue in the months of Jan-Mar. so I try not to make major decisions during these months. And I constantly apoplogize for my mood swings. I don't get snappy very often because I just bite my tongue knowing it will pass in a few months. But I can't help these feelings I have for him. Usually I keep everything bottled up inside until the months pass and I can be a better judge of if the feelings I am having are for real or just my depression kicking in. He does understnad this, but I get so tired of him saying "we need to talk". He just still doesn't get it that I don't want to talk about this all the time. But if I don't, then I have to deal with his emotional ride and I hate it. I have a hard enough time keeping myself in check without haveing to make him feel better about our situation or himself.

I can not honestly tell him that I need him because I don't. Sure I may need a hug from time to time, or a shoulder to cry on, but since he has pretty much alienated me from the outside world over the years, I have no friends that I can do that with. 

I don't believe that feelings are illusions. I think feelings are what allow you to understand how you truely feel in a situation. I can't enjoy the feelings as they come and go because I am tired of feeling bad for him that I don't love him as much as he seems to love me right now. I don't want him to be lonely and I don't want him to hurt or be sad. So it's easier for me to keep him happy than concentrating on my own happiness.

There was a time when all I wanted was him, but after so many years of being pushed aside, those feelings are gone and I don't know how or if they will ever come back. I realized something the other day....if we were not married and we were just "going steady", I would have broken up with him years ago. ALso, if I knew back then what I know now...I honestly don't think I would have married him, and I sure as hell am never going to renew my vows to him. Should that be telling me something or am I reading too much into it?

I just feel so confused and frustrated right now!


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