# Walking the Fine Line: Nice Guy vs No More Nice Guy



## darkrat (May 13, 2013)

I have not read the Married Mans Primer but I have been to website and kind of have a grasp of the "mapping" and everything that goes along with it. and how I should be more assertive and the "captain" etc.

I am however conflicted in the overall philosophy. Currently my goal is to get my wife more into me. I do know that I have to lose weight even though she insist my weight gain isn't the issue. We have been married 16 years and have sex about once a week, which isn't bad but I want more.

So I have been reading that there are many little "tests" women will do throughout the day. Things like "can you pour me a soda, etc". I have always been giving and done things like this for her. The MMSL program says I should not really do these things because it makes me look not very "Alpha". And the more alpha I look the more I get laid.

On the other hand, I read from women that they love a guy who helps keep the house clean, is a good listener, keeps himself in shape and occasionally gives them a foot rub, etc. 

I can't help but see some contradictions in these things. Not to mention, my wife is not stupid, if I stop doing things she asks me for she is going to notice. I did this last night, and it started a semi-argument. She asked me if I could turn a light off and I responded in an alpha way "you are more than capable of turning the light off yourself". Stuff like that is never going to work with her. 

I always thought doing nice things for your wife over time help her have good feeling and now I am told that I have to say no to all these little things. She really does not ask for much.

I totally get that I am not supposed to follow her around the house like a lost puppy looking for affection. But now I am kind of lost at what to do and when to do it.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Read the book. It's like understanding


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

My H is totally alpha and gets laid like tile, and he has always gotten laid like tile (ie: had a very adventurous single life, as well as married life).

BUT....the MMSL does not describe him.

So I'm just throwing my 2 cents into that thinking....my husband treats me like an adult and he expects me to communicate like one. He worships me, and he expects to be worshipped by me, too. He knows he is worthy of being worshipped so he has the confidence necessary in that realm to pull it off.

He fiercely defends me and the boundaries of our relationship, so some of the MMSL is totally crap on this particular issue. An alpha man who gets laid like tile doesn't have to go and "pretend" other women are flirting with him just so he can try to make his wife jealous...that is utter nonsense.

Likewise with the "tests".

If either my H or I say something that is out of line (and HE does it, too....these "tests" go both ways), the other will stand straight up and put the other in their place. And then the one who got out of line immediately realizes they were out of line and accepts being put in their place, AND respects the other spouse for this.

But this doesn't apply to stuff like "honey will you turn the light off". In those types of things, my husband goes out of his way to be kind and generous to me, and we both constantly help each other out and are kind to each other.

Now, if I was acting entitled and lazy about stuff ... "hey go in there and turn off that light in the other room", even though I left it on and we are both in bed or something....my H would certainly put me in my place in that case. 

But common courtesy and kindness are not "tests".


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

FW you describe the aspects of MMSL to the tee. I think what it says about having other women attracted to you is about having confidence and being masculine. 
Jealousy has no place in marriage. That being said having my wife go through my text messages did make me feel wanted by her. Finally. 
The book is not crap. Going to the website and forum to understand the book... Now that's crap. OP your here reading and educating yourself. Why not get it from a source?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

It's about getting your marriage back on track. FW yours sounds like its on track. Some of our wives are so far gone MMSL can do wonders.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

McBrains...I have read it. The whole thing. I've also been on their website.

Here's the deal, my husband (who is a Sex God), doesn't look at women like conquests. He looks at them as adult sexual beings that do not need to be coerced into bed. The MMSL premise is that "women don't know what they want". My husband, who has had more tail than probably most any guy, knows that women most certainly DO know what they want.

So I'm reading MMSL, which desperately tries to teach men to act like my husband does naturally, and I see the main issues that are very much DIFFERENT between him and what they are teaching.

Men who have experienced a sexual life that has been full of disappointment and "lack", will have a certain view of sex. They will view it like it is scarce and that it is something "women give them". And MMSL reeks with that stench.

My husband sees the world as being full of sexual beings, and he is one of them. And this attiude causes different behavior from what MMSL describes.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

darkrat said:


> I can't help but see some contradictions in these things.


The contradiction is not between what Athol recommends and what women want, the contradiction is between what women SAY they find sexy and what they ACTUALLY find sexy.

Yes, women like a man who cleans house. And they like a man who is a good listener. And they like a man to give foot rubs. But they're not sexually attracted to those traits. They are sexually attracted to confidence, muscles, and other alpha traits.



> Not to mention, my wife is not stupid, if I stop doing things she asks me for she is going to notice. I did this last night, and it started a semi-argument. She asked me if I could turn a light off and I responded in an alpha way "you are more than capable of turning the light off yourself". Stuff like that is never going to work with her.


First, sh!t tests are unreasonable requests. If you refuse an unreasonable request to your wife, and she starts an argument over it, then she's being doubly unreasonable. However, not all requests are sh!t tests. Some are reasonable. You have to get good at recognizing them when they occur.

Second, even if your is testing you, she will certainly notice when you stop bending to her will. It's like a child being disciplined. You can't simply announce to a poorly behaved child that you are going to begin disciplining him. He will test you. You have to consistently discipline him for weeks or months before he stops testing.

Your wife will do the same thing. She will test, and test again. If you've been failing them in the past, she won't believe that you've instantly changed. She'll think that you are going to revert to your beta ways. And remember that this is all unconscious anyway.



> I always thought doing nice things for your wife over time help her have good feeling and now I am told that I have to say no to all these little things. She really does not ask for much.


You're half right. Doing the beta things is nice for your wife. She appreciates it. She's just not sexually turned on by it. And you don't stop doing it. You just add alpha. You should have a mix of alpha and beta. Some situations call for alpha (like when your wife tests you). Some situations call for beta (like when she's sick). Keep practicing until you can naturally recognize what behavior is called for in what situation. It will come.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I spend the 80s in a successful rock band. I know about getting plenty of tail. I believe MMSL is a very good read for any married man. Like its been said here before "Never ask a deer how to hunt." 
I would ask a woman's opinion on what my wife might think. I'd never ask a woman's opinion on MMSL.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Doing nice things for you wife will make her like you and allow her to wish to continue to live with you. But it won't make her want to jump your bones.

Being very masculin means being assertive, being direct, having your own manly interests that make you happy, having a strong body, having strong boundaries and being able to say no even though shes gonna pout, and avoiding behaviors that are childish, clingy and needy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm sorry to point this out McBrains...but I don't think anyone who is willingly still married to a serial cheater should be talking about what an alpha male knows.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm sorry to point this out McBrains...but I don't think anyone who is willingly still married to a serial cheater should be talking about what an alpha male knows.


meow


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm sorry to point this out McBrains...but I don't think anyone who is willingly still married to a serial cheater should be talking about what an alpha male knows.


What I was then and what I am now are two different men. Walk in my shoes. It takes a man do it. I run from nothing.


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## darkrat (May 13, 2013)

Is the act of me starting to work out on the exercise bike and some minor weight lifting an act that will attract her?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ummm....ok. I can and do respect what you are saying, McBrains. But still, I don't need to walk in your shoes to know what my husband would do with my cheating azz if that happened in our sitch.

Please see the irony?

Also that "I'd never ask a deer how to hunt" thing is exactly the "sex is scarce" mentality I'm talking about.

All I can say is that my husband gets the rewards that MMSL tries to promise its followers, but he behaves differently than what is taught over there.

If you - or any man - want to subscribe to those ways, I say go for it. But I'm saying that a true alpha as found in the wild does NOT have some of those behaviors nor attitudes.

I've read dozens of sex books, relationship books, message boards, etc. And I also read NMMNG and MMSL.

I highly enjoyed NMMNG and have recommended it to many people. Whereas MMSL has an underlying "why won't the woman give me any poon, wahhhhh!" vibe to it. Any guy who doesn't see that vibe in there is, to me, still under some fiercely false impressions about women and what we want.

Yes, I want to get pounded. No, I do not want my man hovering around me trying to please me all the time. Yet, even though I say these things (the things that MMSL says that women don't know about themselves), men who have that "boo hoo women won't give me sex" vibe will still deny that I have any validity in my own opinions. It is so odd to me. MMSL is just one of many hundreds of books about sex and sexuality. Maybe at least read a couple OTHER ones, too?

How about something by Schnarch?

But no....some men would rather just group together with the "why won't women be into me, wahhh!" camp.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My husband has never been the Alpha type...only been with one woman, wholly into me... MR Sensual Romantic... likes clingy...and he gets laid like tile also... it all depends on the woman...and what floats her boat. Though I would be turned off -if he gained too much weight.... 

I will say though...my husband COULD have done more EROTIC things in our past to turn me on...shake it up a bit..make it more interesting...*be creative*...

Like more overt flirting, grabbing me....showing his desire ...making it PLAYFUL and FUN...wrestle me to the ground type thing...(this might Pi$$ some women off though - so who knows!)....some teasing......he never really did those things.. he was too Reserved...worried about what he felt I WANTED....not pushing the bar... he should have pushed the darn bar and "TOOK ME"... showed me what I wanted. I guess that is an Alpha trait. 

All men need some 'EDGE"... learn what trips her triggers. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...your-edge-can-you-explain-have-you-grown.html



> *MrBrains said*: I'd never ask a woman's opinion on MMSL.


 You can ask me, I bought the book for pure curiosity ...I thought it was *G R E A T *! Near agree with it all.... had my husband read THAT over some stupid article on the net telling him to do my dishes, and help me around the house -when he wanted to UP the sexual... (I am not an acts of service woman )...he would have had a site more sex out of me back in the day. 

FaithfulWife's hubs is the Incarnate natural Sex God ALPHA...most men are* not*.... they could use the book to UP their appeal. That is this woman's opinion.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

darkrat said:


> Is the act of me starting to work out on the exercise bike and some minor weight lifting an act that will attract her?


Yes! After you shower put on some cologne then head out. Remember your mind set; you are doing this for you, not for attention.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

FW, You know I thought just that before my wife cheated. I said "I would never put up with that" but the DDay hammer hits hard. Like nothing can describe. It broke my confidence for a long time. I know what a man is and I know what a broken one feels like. OP needs MMSL from my experience it would help him.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What about the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th DDay hammer? 

Of course, I admire your strength and tenacity and resolve. But honestly, I'd have no respect for my H if he didn't leave me after I cheated over and over.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> What about the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th DDay hammer?
> 
> Of course, I admire your strength and tenacity and resolve. But honestly, I'd have no respect for my H if he didn't leave me after I cheated over and over.


No offense but my wife is not like you. She has her issues. She not so clear headed all the time. She does respect me. She may not have in those few years she was selfish. My wife is not the issue here. Lets not derail this thread.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You're right, McBrains. This isn't about me or you, on this thread.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> What about the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th DDay hammer?
> 
> Of course, I admire your strength and tenacity and resolve. But honestly, I'd have no respect for my H if he didn't leave me after I cheated over and over.


You can't sugar coat sh!t and make it taste sweet. This is just plain mean. You are normally very nice to posters. This is not like you FW.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm sorry it came out as a direct attack, but it was the point, not the attack, I was trying to make. 

McBrains is a valued poster here, and (I think) (hope) he knows what I meant by the POINT of it.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Whereas MMSL has an underlying "why won't the woman give me any poon, wahhhhh!" vibe to it. Any guy who doesn't see that vibe in there is, to me, still under some fiercely false impressions about women and what we want.


Wow. The whole premise of MMSL is stop complaining and start doing. Not only is your understanding completely false, your attitude towards other posters lacks a lot, too.

To the OP:

It is perfectly understandable for a man to want more and better sex from his wife(duh!). It is perfectly normal for a lot of men to not understand what they need to do, what with society telling them to "just be themselves", play nice and everything will magically fall into place.

Read the book. It is a very informative read, combining aspects of Game, evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, behavioral analysis and modification, sex ed and dating advice. I would also advise you to read the blog starting from January 2010, the first post. Also, the forum posters are very knowledgeable too.

The thing about tests. Not everything she wants from you is a sh!t test. A sh!t test is basically her telling you subtextually that she is more important than you and you should change accordingly. 

Also the book doesn't really tell you to be an alpha, get that notion out of your head. The book actually says that it is extremely important to have both Alpha and Beta traits in your arsenal. It is not a zero sum game where you have to sacrifice points in Beta comfort for points in Alpha attraction. It is important to both play with the kids(beta) and command and make sure they make they do their chores(alpha) (just an example)


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

FW is cool by me.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You too, McBrains.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> You too, McBrains.


You call me McBrains one more time and I'm gunna call your husband up and have him spank ya like a step child.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I beg for a spanking every day, so think up something I DON'T like maybe?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Don't forget - for any of this to work at all, you have to have a wife who is interested in having sex.

If she doesn't want you because she basically doesn't care about sex, it doesn't matter what you do. There is no real path to success here unless she decides to bed you out of a fear of losing you.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> My wife and I have sex 3 - 4 times a week, barring sickness or travel. I assume that is not quite at the level of getting laid tile.


And you would be right. IMO. You were tile, your now carpet.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I don't think the tile part is referring to frequency, I think it is more referring to how you don't have to even try to get laid, you just do get laid, like tile.

IOW, chicks throw themselves at you.

That's just how I've always used it.


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