# Am I wrong?



## BlindNoMore (Dec 17, 2012)

Here is the background:
My wife and I have 8 children and have been married for over 16 years. We are both very active in our church, holding many positions in our local congregation. I have struggled for almost all our married life with feeling like she won’t place a higher priority on sexual fulfillment. She doesn’t seem to be interested in it and will rarely make love to me of her own accord -- without my asking, or sometimes begging. I’ve come to the point of just feeling like I will never ask for sex again… or mention it. But then I feel like there’s a part of my marriage missing and feel like I’m going crazy sometimes. I can’t sleep in the same bed because it drives me crazy. She has told me that if I tell her I need her, then she will let me make love to her. She does not plan or schedule to make love to me. She does not talk about it at all. She gets upset with me for making oblique references or innuendo toward it. When she does let me love her, many times it is right as she goes to sleep, already under the covers, and she falls asleep about 1-2 minutes into it. I rarely see her in any state of undress, even though I’ve told her I would like to see more of her. She doesn’t want any type of orgasm, even though I have told her I would do whatever it takes as many times and as often as she wants until she has an orgasm. I’ve asked her to tell me what she likes, to direct me to do whatever she wants, and her response is, “I don’t know what I want, you should know that!” -- every time. I’ve had an incredible number of discussions trying to help her understand how important sex is to me… that I feel acceptance and love and the desire to be with her increases immensely when she will offer her heart to me and we can be one. I have tried going on dates with her, but I have stopped planning them because I’ve told her it’s not a date if we talk about the kids the whole time we are on the date. I still invite her to go places with me after work. I listen to her any time she wants to talk to me, turning off whatever I’m listening to at the time (music, podcasts) and ACTIVELY listening to her. I call her during work. I write messages on the mirror that only show up when the bathroom’s steamy. Every time I go for a walk (for exercise) I invite her to come and ACTIVELY listen to her the whole way. I buy her little gifts that will show her how much I love her. I enjoy doing all these things. I don’t think in my mind, “This will get me SEX later!” although I did many years ago. I’ve explained to her that I do them because I enjoy doing them with her. Sometimes she says there’s something wrong with me for wanting more than what I have. Sometimes she says maybe there is something wrong with her, but she is working on it. Sad thing is, I don’t know what she is working on. She says cleaning the house makes her feel like making love, but I rarely see that and if she said to me, “Hey, let’s clean the house together so we can make love later!” I would be like greased lightning whipping around the house so fast and cleaning everything up. Now, she does currently nurse our little 1 year old (1-2 times a day, when putting to sleep) and has nursed some type of child for many years, but when I see all the other things she accomplishes in a day and in her life, I can’t understand how she wouldn’t be able to make more of an effort. I’ve had difficulty feeling close to her and sharing thoughts and feelings in my life, but I have for many months (possibly a year?) been making sure I tell every little event or thought I had while at work so she is completely aware of all in my heart and mind. Yet nothing changes… 
Ways I try to help her, as I recognize she has a lot on her plate:
Do all the grocery shopping. I buy all the things she asks for, and so many she doesn’t
Pay all the bills. Not because I’m OCD like that, just to help her so she won’t have to worry about it.
Take care of all the sick kids (except for littlest baby, who is in our bed most of the night) that wake up during the night, to make sure she gets a somewhat uninterrupted night of sleep
Cook on the weekends. I cook all day on Sunday and 1-2 meals (Cereal on Sat doesn’t count as ‘cooking’, but I make sure that goes down without a hitch). I pinch hit on some days where she has been out and about or can’t think of anything to cook.
Fix her computer or anything technical as soon as she asks (that’s my 2nd job, as a PC tech)
Watch kids happily when she goes out
Clean our bathroom (showers, toilets, sinks, trash full of diapers, sweep, change towels)
Sweep all floor in main areas
Vacuum the bedroom floor 
Take kids to and from school
Take care of kids on Saturday for as long as she wants to sleep, so she can get caught up on sleep
Give her 45 minute pedicure on Sundays
Give her a back/shoulder rub/massage almost every day of the week, as she is going to sleep, many times as I’m making love to her. 
Hurtful things she has said:
“Why can’t we go back to before we were married?” She says she means to date more, but I’ve told her I am open and available for dates any time she wants, so I’m more inclined to think she means a time where sex wasn’t involved in the equation. I’ve even asked for clarification and she says that the absence of sex was part of what she was talking about.
“A true man of God wouldn’t ask his wife to dress in something sexy. “ I don’t have any rebuttal to this. I’ve explained that I’ve asked her to do this for me as a way to show she is committed to making love and that it is a part of getting me excited and focusing her attention as I think she is beautiful and so incredibly wonderful to look at. Her mind wanders AS I’m making love to her, and she sometimes will be on a completely different subject, or bring up hurtful topics while I’m working hard to make her feel good
Things to rule out:
Depression – She was singing, whistling a hymn all through her shower. I can generally make her laugh numerous times a day. She completes all sorts of activities during the day and has all sorts of goals which she is actively working toward. 
Obesity – My weight is about 20 lbs overweight (185, 5’11”, 38 yrs); Wife is 5’10” and gorgeous, to me – and I’ve told her so MANY times!
Desire – As someone said, “sorry, but this is a lame excuse ... do you go to the gym only when you have a desire to? or go to work only when you desire to? Or change a diaper only when you desire to? Or do anything for that matter only when you desire to? No, we all do things every single day because we should, and it's the right thing to do!”
Financial concerns – I make a good living (working 2 jobs), to the point that she doesn’t need to work (and doesn’t!) and can have many things she wants. She receives an allowance of any amount she chooses each month and I have faithfully paid it (and more, if she needs me to!) and has access to all our bank accounts.
After all this (thank you for your patience!) here are the questions I have:
Am I wrong to want more sex?
2-3 times a week
Am I wrong to want better quality sex?
She wears something sexy
She stays awake
She tells me what to do, what she likes
Enjoys herself
Is there something wrong for me to want these things?


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## JediG (Nov 9, 2012)

There's nothing wrong with you for wanting those things, but damn dude if I had eight kids I wouldn't exactly feel like being sexy or doing anything like that either. How on earth do you even have the energy to want it?


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## BlindNoMore (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks JediG! You gave me a good laugh... I don't know where the energy comes from... I guess it's a miracle! I do know that I'm grateful for each one of those 8 kids. They've all taught me different things, and maybe increased my stamina a bit, as well! Like training for a marathon... You don't start out running 26 miles...


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

8 kids in 16 years! She's been pregnant most of your marriage and that has likely killed her sex drive. Read through the articles together in the sex and intimacy section of the Focus on the Family website (Sex and Intimacy - Focus on the Family). There's alot of good information about God's intentions of sex in marriage. There's also a lot of good practical advice and insight into how men and women think about sex.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

You clearly dont realize how childbirth effects a womans body. Its not wrong to want more or better quality sex but if you want that then be more compassionate toward your wife. lugging around another human inside ones body is no easy task. They literally suck the energy out of a woman both during and after pregnancy.

Pushing one out sure aint easy either. Her body needs time to heal. Take it easy with her for petes sake and think of her well being.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I do have to admit... Her mind wandering during sex and her bringing up hurtful topics seems odd. Maybe get her to a doctor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Is she still fertile? Do you insist she not be on birth control? Could she be leery of child #9? With 8 kids I would think sex would feel like a prelude to a bunch of work.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Incredible actually, I really admire OP's stamina. I know for a fact that I wouldn't be able to handle 8 kids and still be alive!


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

Other people have addressed various issues, like 'How many????' and 'Aren't you just tired?' 

So I'm just going to pick up one point.

you say '[she wants to] date more, but I’ve told her I am open and available for dates any time she wants'

I'm not sure that's going to cut it. 
As I understand it, women like to be wooed, even after marriage - so rather than being available for dates, plan them - sort the babysitting, book the restaurant (and maybe room overnight?) don't tell her what's happening - just that she needs to be available. Have it all planned out, so it goes smoothly. Dress nice. Smell nice. Be assertive, but attentive. Then tell her what's happening, as it's about to happen, but make sure it's something she'll like, and would have chosen if she'd dared to. (I'm not saying order her meal for her - unless she'd like that - hopefully you'd know - but limit her options to things you've made available for her benefit.)

And when you tell her that you're not going home, there's a room booked, and actually you're going upstairs now, and in the room there's a piece of lingerie for her to put on after her bath ....

... well, try it, and see what happens 

And you might find it improves things for the rest of week (or month, if you're lucky.)

And the NEXT time you say 'leave Friday night free ... and Saturday morning' - she's likely to respond positively.

Just a thought, but women tend to like men to be men, but to know that they're focused on their woman. Works for me ...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

BlindNoMore said:


> My wife and I have 8 children and have been married for over 16 years.


8 kids in 16 years means your wife has been pregnant or nursing for your entire marriage. The hormones in a woman's body during pregnancy and/or nursing can kill libido. Also, she may be afraid of having more children, so she avoids sex for that reason. Although, if she's been like this for your entire marriage, it's likely that fear of pregnancy is not the reason.



BlindNoMore said:


> She has told me that if I tell her I need her, then she will let me make love to her. She does not plan or schedule to make love to me.


Men have spontaneous sexual desire. It's always in us under the surface and can pop up if the wind blows. Women are responsive. They usually need us to start things up before they get in the mood. Don't try to get your wife to initiate before you fix the other issues you have. That part of your marriage is normal.



BlindNoMore said:


> Ways I try to help her, as I recognize she has a lot on her plate:
> Do all the grocery shopping. ...
> Pay all the bills. ...
> Take care of all the sick kids ...
> ...


Holy sh!t!!! Dude, just stop right there. You're not her husband. You're her butler. Women aren't sexually attracted to butlers. When you listen to your daughters talk about what kind of man they want to be with when they grow up, have they ever mentioned "butler" as an attractive option? Most girls would choose rock star, or professional athlete, or doctor, or lawyer, or politician. Most girls would rank butler way, WAY down the list of attractive careers.

Your wife doesn't work outside the home and you have two jobs, right? So she can handle her own affairs in the home. Vacuum the floors. Cook. Shop.



BlindNoMore said:


> Hurtful things she has said:
> “Why can’t we go back to before we were married?” ... I’ve even asked for clarification and she says that the absence of sex was part of what she was talking about.
> “A true man of God wouldn’t ask his wife to dress in something sexy. “ I don’t have any rebuttal to this.


These are known as "sh!t tests" or "fitness tests." As in, "I wonder how much of my sh!t this man will take before he puts me in my place?" In order to pass the test, you need to take very little sh!t. It sounds like you take it all and keep asking for more. That's bad.



BlindNoMore said:


> Desire – As someone said, “sorry, but this is a lame excuse ... do you go to the gym only when you have a desire to? or go to work only when you desire to? Or change a diaper only when you desire to? Or do anything for that matter only when you desire to? No, we all do things every single day because we should, and it's the right thing to do!”


That is absolutely true. But women don't think that way. Women don't have sex because it's the right thing to do. Women have sex because they're turned on.

If you could debate women into having sex, then the debate team would get all the girls in high school instead of the football team. But that's not how it works out. Women are attracted to good looking, physically fit, assertive, confident men. And they will gladly have sex with those men regardless of whether it is the right thing to do. And they will stubbornly resist sex with lesser men regardless of whether they should.

Your best bet is to become a physically fit, assertive, confident man.



BlindNoMore said:


> Am I wrong to want more sex?
> 2-3 times a week


Are you saying you want sex 2-3 times a week, or that you have sex 2-3 times a week, but would like more? Either way, you're not wrong. A little over twice a week is the average for married couples. Some men need more than that.



BlindNoMore said:


> Am I wrong to want better quality sex?
> She wears something sexy
> She stays awake
> She tells me what to do, what she likes
> ...


Nope. Your wife's wedding vows were probably the standard, "love, honor, cherish, obey" vows. They probably didn't include, "begrudgingly provide the minimum affection necessary to keep your husband from leaving you."

As I said before, it is possible that your wife's hormone levels are more or less permanently out of whack. You could have a doctor run some tests on that. If her hormones are abnormal, then you probably just have to wait until you're finished having children before her hormones return to normal.

It is also possible that there is another man in the picture. I know she has lots of kids around during the day, but you said she is very active at church. Adultery happens in churches just like any place else. If your wife is spending time with another man, it is possible that she is either having an affair, or just fantasizing about this man and directing her libido at him instead of you. Check her phone records, email/Facebook messages to verify that this isn't happening.

The most likely culprit is you. Your wife isn't attracted to you. You are her butler. You take her crap and ask for more. She doesn't respect you because of this. There has never been a romance novel written that involves a man who just takes a woman's crap until she finally decides that he's suffered enough and she will now love him and have sex with him. You need to change yourself to be more attractive to her.

Go to Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. and start looking at the archives. Go to post #1 and spend some time reading. Then, buy his book and run the MAP.

Good luck.


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

If you two are done having kids, you should get a vasectomy. I wouldn't ask a woman who already seems to have a low libido to go on anything hormonal for BC. Bet she's afraid of getting pregnant again.


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## BlindNoMore (Dec 17, 2012)

You folks are great! I appreciate your perspective. That's what I was looking for! I will have more patience and compassion and start planning the dates again. I'll work on being more firm. I really do want to take care of her, I enjoy it, but maybe it does distort her image of me. Certainly something to consider.

As for number of children, she has asked for each and every one of them. I have always been sensitive to her requests in that area and she has wanted a large family. She is 40 now and she does say she doesn't know if she'll have more children, but has not said she wants to keep that from happening.

Once again, the links and comments have been helpful. Thank you.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

There are other hobbies I mean I can teach you how to golf.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Ok, the part that got me was “A true man of God wouldn’t ask his wife to dress in something sexy.“ No... a true man of God wouldn't ask his wife to wear something sexy and show it off to OTHERS. Wearing sexy clothes for your spouse? Absolutely NOTHING wrong with this.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

BlindNoMore said:


> I'll work on being more firm. I really do want to take care of her, I enjoy it, but maybe it does distort her image of me. Certainly something to consider.


Athol Kay wrote a post about this just last week.
Good Beta, Betaized, Butler and Hooker Math | Married Man Sex Life


Athol Kay; said:


> Butler – This is when Betaized turns into Betash!t Crazy. If your wife is a SAHM… and you’re the one both holding down a job AND running about cooking, cleaning, taxi driving the kids everywhere, grocery shopping, yada yada yada…. *you’re doing her whole damn job for her!*


Read the post. You need to run the MAP and change your marriage from being a lady and her butler to being a Captain with his First Officer. That's usually when the sex comes.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Athols post was great. But his hooker math equation should subtract the wife's contribution in the numerator. The cost per lay calculation needs to be done on a net basis.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

If I were her, I would have this equation in my head:

1. He puts his penis inside me.
2. I'm pregnant (again)

I don't notice any mention of birth control in your original post. I wouldn't get near you with a 10 foot pole either at this point. As others have noted, being pregnant for half of your marriage is not going to happen without taking a toll.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Rags said:


> Other people have addressed various issues, like 'How many????' and 'Aren't you just tired?'
> 
> So I'm just going to pick up one point.
> 
> ...


This is golden. Dating your wife is something we tend to take for granted. Start doing this and you'll see all kinds of things improve.


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