# Interested in someone significantly older



## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

What are your thoughts on relationships with a large age gap? Usually in our culture it's never considered weird if the man is significantly older, only if the woman is. So I happen to be good friends with a woman who is a lot older than me. She's single as well, we have a lot in common and enjoy talking to each other. It's PROBABLY not going to materialize into an actual relationship, but at the same time it isn't impossible for a variety of reasons.

I grew up with older sisters and my parents had me in their 40's, so I tend to relate to people much older than me much more easily than folks my age or younger. Forming a real connection with someone my age or younger (30's or younger) seems to be impossible for me despite attempts to make friends and date using e-harmony etc.

I know there are precedents out there for this type of age gap but I was just curious for more perspectives and thoughts on it. I'm certainly aware of the possible dangers and downsides to such a relationship, but then what relationship doesn't have potential pitfalls and challenges? There's no such thing as "safe" when it comes to love, I think.

Due to being a highly introspective person I learned a ton from my first marriage, and I strongly feel I put away a lot of the prideful sorts of mental hangups that turn toxic and cause men to ruin their marriages. (I probably did contribute to my own marriage failing, but there are certain things I definitely got better at near the end of my marriage) I've dealt with and put away porn addiction for instance. I also dealt with and put away a tendency to be petulant and demanding towards my spouse concerning sex. I have invested a lot of time and energy into learning to be patient and gentle. Which makes me think I would be an ideal lover for a woman older than me. Who knows though, but I enjoy thinking about the possibility.

As a side note, the advice which led to be being more patient towards my first wife and putting away porn addiction, came from a generous individual who was on this site who reached out to me personally. I don't know if you're still here, but thank you and this site for being here.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

How many years is the age gap?


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

In the interest of anonymity lets say more than 10 but less than 20.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Once people's personalities have crystallized as adults, often not until close to 30, age becomes mostly irrelevant to who they are as a person. It may not matter much now, and for years to come, but you should be prepared for someone nearing end of life while you are still young and vibrant. If sitting at home and watching a movie together is your idea of a great date night, perhaps that won't be a problem. If you're active, more so.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

That's precisely one of the things that is a point of consideration for me. My childhood was extremely peaceful and isolated. My adolescence was extremely peaceful and isolated. Even my cold 11 year marriage which ended was peaceful and isolated. Now that I'm living alone, it is peaceful and isolated and not extremely active. Not that I don't like to do things that are fun, and I think the person I'm interested in is too, but I guess I just feel my energy level has been calibrated to people older than me my whole life. Folks younger than me frequently do seem kind of hyper like I could never keep up, haha. So who knows.

And yeah, if this actually did materialize, I'd be signing up for (assuming the relationship lasts) something that could become sad or painful later as I could lose her long before I would have if I was with someone closer to my age, but...I mean...when it's as hard as it is to find a true connection with someone, I'm not sure if I can ignore real feelings I may be developing. I guess only time will tell if she feels the same way. I'm kind of expecting not, and I'm trying to prepare myself for simply having a good female friend who maybe I have feelings for, but you don't have to necessarily have a relationship with everyone that your heart is fond of.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm 52 and dating a guy who is 36. It is working for us. Since I've been divorced and dating, I've been shocked at the number of younger men who were interested in me. I ended up dating several of them, between 5 and 15 years younger than me. At first I was a bit wary about younger guys, but I learned quickly that for their own reasons (some similar to the ones you listed) they were simply more interested in older women than younger ones. I dated guys my own age and a bit older as well. The relationship I'm in is the best one by far, of all of the ages of guys I dated. However that's because we are just a really great match and I think we would be even if we didn't have an age difference. Although when I was his age I was nowhere near as mature and cool as he is.

With the woman you are interested in, she may have no clue you'd ever be interested in her that way so if she hasn't done anything that seems like flirting or trying to get beyond the friend zone, then either she isn't interested in you that way OR she would be if she thought you might be but she won't guess that you are. So you'll likely have to press the issue if you want to know.

My current guy was one of the first younger guys I had dated (then we broke up for a year and got back together and I dated a bunch of younger guys in between). When we were first chatting on a dating site, he had to convince me to give him a shot because I just couldn't fathom why he'd be interested. Once I met him, I realized he was so right, we were a great match! And after talking to all the other younger guys I dated, I realized it is just a normal thing now. There were so many of them, great guys who just have a preference for older women and it isn't a game or anything odd. I think some men have always been interested the same way but it just wasn't socially acceptable previously. These days the younger dudes are just doing what they want and not worried about what people would think.

In my case, I have no desire to get married again or live with anyone. So I'm not looking at my relationship like what happens when I am in my golden years and he's still in his prime because I just don't have that goal. However, if we did end up going the distance, I don't think that would be so weird anymore. Knowing who he is, things like that would just be part of life to him.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> With the woman you are interested in, she may have no clue you'd ever be interested in her that way so if she hasn't done anything that seems like flirting or trying to get beyond the friend zone, then either she isn't interested in you that way OR she would be if she thought you might be but she won't guess that you are. So you'll likely have to press the issue if you want to know.


Thanks for your thoughts Faithful Wife. That's a similar age gap actually to my situation, slightly smaller in fact. I actually did blurt out the other day off hand how attractive I thought she was. (and some other stuff, but can't be too careful about preserving anonymity here so I don't want to say exactly what I said lol). She's taken incredibly good care of herself, if I met her on the street I would never have guessed her age. When I told her that it seemed to make her day and she's been talking to me a bunch since then so perhaps it isn't impossible. Time will tell I guess. Regardless of whether it materializes into a relationship she's a great friend. I'm glad she is in my life.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

While anonymity is great I think you are worried a little too much. The exact age gap or telling someone they have a fine ass. is common enough that it won't point you out of all the people in the world.

I think relationships with large age gaps can work but you also have to be realistic. Such as do you want kids? have you already had them? Older women tend to be past child bearing years. Many people don't think about kids until they realize they might want one. You haven't stated your age so it's hard to tell if this may be a concern or not. The other is work life / social life. Older people eventually get to retire sometimes that works great other times the person who is retired wants to travel or do other things the younger still working one can't. Health and eventual death.

Many of those things don't matter if you aren't looking for a long term relationship. Of course if aren't then what would the age gap matter anyway? You can have sex with any consenting adult.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Anastasia6 said:


> While anonymity is great I think you are worried a little too much. The exact age gap or telling someone they have a fine ass. is common enough that it won't point you out of all the people in the world.
> 
> I think relationships with large age gaps can work but you also have to be realistic. Such as do you want kids? have you already had them? Older women tend to be past child bearing years. Many people don't think about kids until they realize they might want one. You haven't stated your age so it's hard to tell if this may be a concern or not. The other is work life / social life. Older people eventually get to retire sometimes that works great other times the person who is retired wants to travel or do other things the younger still working one can't. Health and eventual death.
> 
> Many of those things don't matter if you aren't looking for a long term relationship. Of course if aren't then what would the age gap matter anyway? You can have sex with any consenting adult.


I'm gonna use this as a jumping off point for introspecting about whether I want kids, so only read on if you find this interesting:

The kids issue is one that has plagued me for a while particularly thru my first marriage. She never wanted to talk about the future at all, I was always the one who brought up the possibility of kids. She never wanted them, but she also never learned to drive AND, I ended up driving her around AND her ailing mother because her mom had cancer at one point, and on top of all that I was on her mother's mortgage to keep her in her house in 2008 due to the mortgage crisis. 

So after 11 years I kind of already feel like I was a dad, to my wife and my wife's mother. I was ridiculously altruistic to both of them for a long time. Probably not on the same level as a parent, but I got so little appreciation for what I did for so long that I almost feel like i've already been through that.

And, both of my sisters had tragic circumstances with their children. One died, the other has a very serious condition that will affect him and his family for life.

And, I have always led a very tranquil, low energy lifestyle, with parents much older than me (they were in their 40's). Closest thing I ever had to a sibling was sister 11 years older than me who played with me a lot but she was off to college by the time I was 7 or 8 or so. Any time I'm around my sisters' children I get exhausted very quickly.

And then there's the fact I have a lot of trouble relating to my own generation and younger, probably due to having parents who were born in the late 30's.

So yeah, I'm kinda thinking maybe I don't want kids, haha.

My sister was telling me how non-white women tend to want kids more and told me of this guy who had a latina girlfriend who really wanted to get married and have kids, and he was freaked out so he dumped her and she moved on to another guy and was married and had kids with the guy within 2 years. And I was thinking to myself, gosh, if I met a girl who was THAT gung ho about starting a family right away, just the THOUGHT of that sounds exhausting, all the time and energy and expense I'd have to go through. I guess I already felt used by one woman. She wanted a house when I didn't want one, TWICE, and we were only in the second house for a year before she cheated on me.

I just feel like I'm already done with the _attempt_ to live a normal life and just want a partner now...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Sounds like you two are a good fit. Be sure you don't want kids, don't start something with her and then 5 years down the road change your mind and make it a dealbreaker. But just start dating her.

If she's in her 40s and you're in your 30s, there's no point in being coy. 

"Listen, we're great friends and I don't want to lose that. But I have to be honest here, I'm kind of into you. How would you feel about dating and seeing what happens?"

If she says no, blow it off, and be happy just being friends. If she agrees to dating, then jump in with gusto and have fun. Life is for living.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

My second husband was 16 years older than me. It never really was an issue. However now (we are divorced) I am about to turn 50, and cannot imagine being married to a man of 66. We would be in very different places in our lives and I would feel like I was taking care of a parent rather than a husband. So do consider the future and how your feeling could change. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

My initial reaction to this was...if you don’t want kids, GO FOR IT. Overall I think that would still be my answer, but I wanted to throw out this thought provoking question...

Tomorrow a beautiful, single woman, right around your age surfaces and she clearly is into you.
You need to decide who to start to date, her or your friend. Who would you pick?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Here's a classic you two can watch together:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The novelist Raymond Chandler married a woman much older than he was. They had a very successful marriage, by the accounts I have seen.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

She may want to be fwb.

How would you react to that? 

You already know the larger age gaps work in early and mid life ages more as fwbs, because as we age, the differences between 55 yo and 70 yo will inevitably be a large issue. 

Mostly. But certainly only you know what's best for you. It would be a shame to have a 10 or 15 year M then later D. That wouldn't be right.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

From what you have said, I'd recommend finding out her feelings on the matter.
The issue might be moot.
I'd say if you are both happy together, and can work through the the baggage that goes with it, go for it.
I once dated a woman 25 years older than me.
She was all in. She proposed. All I needed to do was put a ring on it.
Unfortunately for her, I wasn't in that deep.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> Here's a classic you two can watch together:


I've actually been a big fan of this movie since childhood. I've always liked weird people and weird things, and that has probably led to me considering this possibility.

As for difference between a 55 year old and a 70 year old,, who knows. I'm only 37 but I'm already slowing down sexually. I don't think I even think about it more than maybe once every week and a half or two weeks. And I'm active, eat healthy etc. Must just be the way I'm made.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I've always had ONE rule when I was dating, and that was to NEVER date a man I could have given birth to.

Actually, I avoided all young men. I'm tired of training them.


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## Parallax857 (May 15, 2012)

I've seen successful marriages in which the woman is significantly older. Not my own; I've never been into older women. But I've seen many that seemed to work really well. My sense is it worked when I've seen it work because a mature woman can be really grounding and some men appreciate that. It's always involved men who are looking deeper than the surface. He's drawn to the heart of the woman as much as or more than to her outer beauty, though there may also be some who just find older women more physically attractive.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Welp I basically told her today in a letter how I feel about her. After an excruciating six hours or so I finally received a response. She didn't shut the door on me right away so, seems like she's at least considering the possibility.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I've always had ONE rule when I was dating, and that was to NEVER date a man I could have given birth to.
> 
> Actually, I avoided all young men. I'm tired of training them.


Haha she would have had to have been of barely legal age to have been my mother, though it is technically possible. My own mother is 80, and my sisters are both close to the age of the woman I am interested in, so she doesn't really seem that old to me because of the huge spread of ages in my family.

As for being trained, hahaha, that's funny. I'm a very put together guy and take great care of myself. Definitely don't need a mommy. I spent a great deal of time in my desolate marriage working hard at being a better partner, better listener, more patient and gentle, less demanding with sex, etc. etc. I went through some major permanent changes which I think will be really wonderful gifts for my next partner whoever she is.



Parallax857 said:


> I've seen successful marriages in which the woman is significantly older. Not my own; I've never been into older women. But I've seen many that seemed to work really well. My sense is it worked when I've seen it work because a mature woman can be really grounding and some men appreciate that. It's always involved men who are looking deeper than the surface. He's drawn to the heart of the woman as much as or more than to her outer beauty, though there may also be some who just find older women more physically attractive.


Well this woman happens to be beautiful both inside and out. She has taken great care of herself, looks even better than when she was married, lost a lot of weight etc. She's one of those people that age is very kind to. I don't have a particular fetish for physical age or anything weird, it's a matter of maturity and the fact that I spent so much time with my sisters who are 11 and 13 years older than me. This woman is 17 years older than me, but that's only 4 years different from my eldest sister.

I almost hope this happens just to see how shocked my poor old parents get lol


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

it's hard to have an input on this situation. How old are you? How old is she?
if you're 30 and she's 45, maybe she won't be able to have kids later in life.

Are you sure this is not an infatuation? 

We have the example of the French President E.Macron (42) who is married to a 67 y.o woman. Their marriage seems to be working but I wouldn't rely on this example alone to state that it'll work for similar examples. 

Back to your case, what will happen when she won't look as attractive anymore as she might look right now? Are you sure you won't be looking for younger/fresher women that are around your age? 

I'm not trying to judge your woman but AGE matters. I don't care if people say love matters and age doesn't. A big age difference makes the other person look like a parent rather than a partner, after a few years down the road. Make sure she won't be looking or sounding like a mom to you after some years.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

lovelygirl said:


> it's hard to have an input on this situation. How old are you? How old is she?
> if you're 30 and she's 45, maybe she won't be able to have kids later in life.
> 
> Are you sure this is not an infatuation?
> ...


I'm certain it is not infatuation because I've known her for years. I admired her for a long time, she'd been friends with my ex wife actually. Obviously I'd never said anything flirtatious all that time. But we've been talking over the last year and go to know each other better and I feel closer to her now since we've both been through a divorce. I truly care about her on top of admiring her for other reasons.

As for attractiveness, what I'm realizing is that beauty has a lot more to do with health than age and how tight one's skin is. I've seen women on dating sites who are 35 and look completely wrecked by life, and then a 58 year old who is really beautiful. It'd be hard for a woman older than me to seem like my mom unless she was in her 80's, which my mom is.

I think it's tragic that, if I was a 36 year old woman and she was a 53 year old man, nobody would even so much as bat an eye over it. I think that's social garbage left over from the stone age. Especially these days when we're not exactly in the "we need to fill the earth with humans" phase anymore.

I'm just prioritizing finding a real connection and I don't think I'm gonna find one with a younger woman. So many of them are narcissistic freaks these days. I get so sick of that "siren stare" so many young women do on dating sites. I just want to see a nice, humble, natural smile. It's so refreshing when I find the one out of every 300 women who actually look like that.

A lot of men toxically allow obsession with their own virility and young women to wreck their love lives. I confronted that aspect of my psyche in my own way, internally, during my first marriage. It has resulted in a permanent change where that obsession has melted away, and I know it won't return, for many of the reasons cited above.

My hope is to eventually find a woman I can love with capital L. A real actual soul connection. Sex is obviously something I look forward to in the future with whomever as well but it is several tiers below what I'd consider the most important aspect.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

onceler1 said:


> As for attractiveness, what I'm realizing is that beauty has a lot more to do with health than age and how tight one's skin is. I've seen women on dating sites who are 35 and look completely wrecked by life, and then a 58 year old who is really beautiful. It'd be hard for a woman older than me to seem like my mom unless she was in her 80's, which my mom is.


If your mom was 45 (the same age as this woman) you'd see her as your mom then.
But I do agree with you that beauty is about health and self-appreciation, externally and internally.



> I think it's tragic that, if I was a 36 year old woman and she was a 53 year old man, nobody would even so much as bat an eye over it. I think that's social garbage left over from the stone age.


Meh. It would still be considered weird or a huge age gap. Less stigmatized than your situation.



> Especially these days when we're not exactly in the "we need to fill the earth with humans" phase anymore.


I agree with you where you say that the human part in most people has faded away, but that really depends on the people around you. You still have women out there who are looking for a real connection.



> I'm just prioritizing finding a real connection and I don't think I'm gonna find one with a younger woman.


It might be real from your part but not from her. She might be thinking "_Bingo! A much younger man is noticing me. Gotta take the chance_!" So, we don't know (maybe you do) her real intentions of having a relationship with you. 
On a side note, it's not true that you won't find a real connection with a much younger woman. You're in that phase that you've lost hope and you think there are no better options than her out there. 
The thing is...after 5 years (assuming you are still together) her health complications will make it more difficult for you to maintain that healthy and fresh - sexy connection (not referring to sex per se ... )



> So many of them are narcissistic freaks these days. I get so sick of* that "siren stare" *so many young women do on dating sites.


What do you mean? 


> just want to see a nice, humble, natural smile. It's so refreshing when I find the one out of every 300 women who actually look like that.


You're not looking for anything that's hard to find in other women who are younger.



> A lot of men toxically allow obsession with their own virility and young women to wreck their love lives. I confronted that aspect of my psyche in my own way, internally, during my first marriage. It has resulted in a permanent change where that obsession has melted away, and I know it won't return, for many of the reasons cited above.


Just because you had that in your first marriage, doesn't mean it will be the same with the next one. 
You can't judge people referring to the group-age of your ex wife.



> My hope is to eventually find a woman I can love with capital L. A real actual soul connection. Sex is obviously something I look forward to in the future with whomever as well but it is several tiers below what I'd consider the most important aspect.


You have made up your mind that you want to be with this woman. Whatever we say here, you're falling for her. Go try it and get rid of this "obsession" before it's too late but take the "risks" into account.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

IMO age is just a number anyway. If two people have a connection, then does an age difference change that? I have dating much older and much younger women then myself and I have found that it depends on the person.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

lovelygirl said:


> If your mom was 45 (the same age as this woman) you'd see her as your mom then.
> But I do agree with you that beauty is about health and self-appreciation, externally and internally.
> 
> 
> ...


It just doesn't seem big to me since she's just a little bit older than my sisters. And I spent so much time with them like I've explained, and talked to them so much, I actually feel more like their generation. Super tight knit family here.

How she feels about me is very much up in the air at the moment. She has made it clear she does not want to lose my friendship and made me promise that I'd continue being her friend. (to which I said of course! it didn't require a promise. I'm not going anywhere) My suspicion is she has something else going on with another man that is complicated. I'm not dead set on this like I'll be crestfallen or heartbroken if she doesn't feel the same way about me, it's kind of like, I AM really into her and admire her for a ton of reasons, and I would love if she felt the same way but if she doesn't I respect it completely. I know eventually I'll meet someone else. Well, I hope. It may be quite unlikely in my case as I'm a rather strange individual. Finding women that have as much in common with me as she does is extremely rare so I thought, I will regret not seeing if there's any possibility here.

As for the "siren stare" comment, have you flipped through tinder, bumble, match.com, even e-harmony? Pages and pages of women making these big, kind of dead looking eyes at the camera like O.O it just doesn't look natural. It looks like they are trying to be some kind of hyper sexy temptress. To me, that isn't sexy, that's shallow, and is a red flag for narcissism. My ex wife got an instagram account and began behaving precisely this way a year or so before she cheated on me with a 21 year old (she was 39 at the time, now 40). The fact that that happened may have some effect on me psychologically if for no other reason than to consider the possibility of being with an older woman. I thought about it and I realized that yes, that actually could work very well for me, but for good reasons rather than bad reasons.

I'm fully aware of the risks. But after my ex wife cheating on me, and my sister's husband cheating on her (who we thought was an absolute ROCK of a man previously), I just look at life like EVERYTHING is a risk. If I wanted no risk, I'd just hide out in a closet and order all my food and groceries and never try to interact with another human again. And so, if my heart feels a special fondness of someone who is in a conceivable age range (and heck, 8 years smaller gap than the french president LOL), and it is unbelievably rare for me to feel that way, I MUST find out if it is possible.


There may indeed be some nice younger women out there but, most of the good ones are already married! The few remaining don't answer me when I send them messages on any dating sites, or if they do it lasts for like 2 paragraphs. I had one nice date with a girl from eharmony earlier this year, but, she was too different and was way too up front about not leaving our current location eventually being a big deal breaker. Like no wiggle room. its like welp, I don't check those boxes so bye


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

onceler1 said:


> Finding women that have as much in common with me as she does is extremely rare so I thought, I will regret not seeing if there's any possibility here.


What specifically do you and her and so much in common?



> As for the "siren stare" comment, have you flipped through tinder, bumble, match.com, even e-harmony? Pages and pages of women making these big, kind of dead looking eyes at the camera like O.O it just doesn't look natural. It looks like they are trying to be some kind of hyper sexy temptress. To me, that isn't sexy, that's shallow, and is a red flag for narcissism. My ex wife got an instagram account and began behaving precisely this way a year or so before she cheated on me with a 21 year old (she was 39 at the time, now 40). The fact that that happened may have some effect on me psychologically if for no other reason than to consider the possibility of being with an older woman. I thought about it and I realized that yes, that actually could work very well for me, but for good reasons rather than bad reasons.


I understand how the behavior of your ex wife could've affected you. I get that many girls on these dating sites try to much to look hot ...it feels unnatural. To me, dating sites are just another step towards _fake-ness . _I have been using them myself, but hardly have I found any quality man. I've also noticed women trying too hard to look like someone they're not, in order to attract the attention of these men. On the other hand, I think it depends on the the type of man they want the attention from. Just like in your case, it depends on the type of girl you want the attention from. The type of girl you're looking for is hard to be found on a dating site, where most men and women are looking for superficial connections and not deep/real ones.



> I'm fully aware of the risks. But after my ex wife cheating on me, and my sister's husband cheating on her (who we thought was an absolute ROCK of a man previously), I just look at life like EVERYTHING is a risk. If I wanted no risk, I'd just hide out in a closet and order all my food and groceries and never try to interact with another human again. And so, if my heart feels a special fondness of someone who is in a conceivable age range (and heck, 8 years smaller gap than the french president LOL), and it is unbelievably rare for me to feel that way, I MUST find out if it is possible.


I get it.



> There may indeed be some nice younger women out there but, most of the good ones are already married! The few remaining don't answer me when I send them messages on any dating sites, or if they do it lasts for like 2 paragraphs.


That's because they either are not deep conservators or the conversation is vague from both sides because there might not be a real interest/attraction.
it's really hard to click through a virtual talk. I have the same issues. Most guys are plain boring and are not able to hold a conversation or keep it going. Most are way too lazy.



> I had one nice date with a girl from eharmony earlier this year, but, she was too different and was way too up front about not leaving our current location eventually being a big deal breaker. Like no wiggle room. its like welp, I don't check those boxes so bye


Yeah because she might've had enough and has put up with a lot of crap from the past that she woudn't tolerate anything that would be someowhat of a deal breaker for her.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Are you prepared to be widowed in the next 10 - 20 years? How many of those years will be spent caring for a sick spouse?


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

She's not that old lol she's only a couple years older than my sister. She's very healthy. I'm not worried about that. But in short, yes. I have an extremely different outlook on life relative to other people. I've already been through an 11 year marriage which was extremely desolate and which took a ton of energy out of me. I don't particularly relish starting over with someone younger who is going to demand the same level of energy from me, who might end up cheating on me again and maybe with children in the picture (thankfully I have no children to my first marriage) That's definitely a factor. All I want is a partner who I can love for real. And I want stability and peace. And I can give that as well. I remember back in college I was out with this one girl (it wasn't a date though, it never turned into that) and I was talking to her about life and she said: "You look at life like an old person does." This was when I was 22. I'm 37 now. Hahahaha


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

lovelygirl said:


> What specifically do you and her and so much in common?


Too numerous to name. She seems like a female clone of me in a lot of ways. More than my ex-wife was, haha.



> I understand how the behavior of your ex wife could've affected you. I get that many girls on these dating sites try to much to look hot ...it feels unnatural. To me, dating sites are just another step towards _fake-ness . _I have been using them myself, but hardly have I found any quality man. I've also noticed women trying too hard to look like someone they're not, in order to attract the attention of these men. On the other hand, I think it depends on the the type of man they want the attention from. Just like in your case, it depends on the type of girl you want the attention from. The type of girl you're looking for is hard to be found on a dating site, where most men and women are looking for superficial connections and not deep/real ones.


The problem appears to be the same even on sites that are supposedly for finding deep connections though. Though to be fair, e-harmony is still the only site that got me an actual date. I got catfished by a 400lb whale on tinder a few months back though, with pictures from 15 years ago when they were not 400lbs. That was extremely uncomfortable date. I was polite though and didn't bail on the date, but I didn't ask for a second date. haha. Funny thing: I would not consider obesity a problem if it wasn't directly related to health. I.e. if obese people didn't have back problems, breathing problems, joint problems mobility problems and intimacy problems, it would quite literally only be a different way a human could appear physically. But as these are severe problems that accompany obesity, it is extremely difficult to conceive of having a relationship with someone of that size, sadly. 





> That's because they either are not deep conservators or the conversation is vague from both sides because there might not be a real interest/attraction.
> it's really hard to click through a virtual talk. I have the same issues. Most guys are plain boring and are not able to hold a conversation or keep it going. Most are way too lazy.


I've formed some of my deepest friendships talking online. So I don't agree here. I think the real issue is that there are too many people to sift through, so no one pairing of people talking are able to really sit and spend time with the person to really get to know them. It's an ADHD social media thing, and learning about a real human takes time. That's why it's so great I have this connection that I do with this woman, it's real, I've known her for years and now we've been talking heart to heart for like a year about things we like and about our lives and what we've been through with divorce and even dating post divorce.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You're 37 and she's 54? My sis died at 64, my sister-in-law at 67 and both of these women were healthy until they weren't. Good luck.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Well I guess my sisters are just as likely to die just as soon which would be equally as tragic anyway. I don't want to live my life thinking about planning for when people die, that's silly. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow. But probably won't since I'm staying at home lol


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

I really think things just feel different in my family cause we're all hyper health conscious and my parents are super healthy in their early 80's. My mom hasn't even lost all color in her hair yet. So that my sisters are close to the age of the woman I'm interested in just doesn't seem weird to me. If my family was normal and my parents were in their you know 60's now or whatever it'd probably feel weirder. But my parents are like 30 years older than the woman I'm interested in.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Decisions that you make will completely change your future. Right now, you are a single 37 year old man with no kids, the world is your oyster. You are limitless RIGHT now. You need to understand the importance of this.

You can easily marry a 30 year old and start a family if you choose. You can marry a 30 year old with kids also, or a 35 year old, or a 40 year old etc. you have options. 

But in 10 years when your 47, you no longer have these options. It will be harder and harder to find women without kids and without baggage.


So what you need to do, is really figure out what you want your life to look like in 10, 20, and 30 years. Really think about it. When your 60 years old what do you want your day to be like? Do you have to visit your kids, all have Christmas Day together, have grandchildren filling up your life? Or do you want a more quiet life with just you and your wife and no kids? Do you want to your wife to be 75 when your 60? Do you want to be a young widower?

What kind of life sounds appealing to you? Because right now, at 37 you have the chance to take control of your life and make those decisions. But if you don’t make those choices and you let life choose it for you, you may not be happy with what you get.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I don't know, I guess I am surprised so many are down on her age, especially the women on this thread. But....I do agree that it is a good thing for him to consider the things mentioned. With that said when I was 42 I had a 54 year old girlfriend. She got hit on by men of all ages constantly. In terms of pure looks most of my guy friends thought she was smoking hot. I probably have re-written history and think of her as less hot because she was completely crazy. My point is some people just have good genes. I have no doubt that my ex girlfriend will probably look pretty close to what Christie Brinkley looks like when she is in her sixties. However, I would think chemistry is based on more than looks for a couple that has been together a while. I think he should go for it if she has mutual interest in him. Do we know if she does yet?


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

I don't yet know if she would even consider it a possibility. I think she was taken aback when I told her I have feelings for her. That was last week. I've been making sure to give her plenty of time and space and am not doing anything insecure or immature like pressing her further right away. In fact I don't think I'll bring it up again for a while. I want to see if she chooses to shut me down (and she will do it gently, she's that sort of person), or if she tacitly leaves the possibility open and just keeps talking to me.

I'm amused when people act like 37 means "the world is my oyster." I really don't know what that means. I've already achieved everything I wanted to, and already been through an 11 year marriage that took a lot out of me. What makes me happiest is staying at home and pursuing introverted hobbies.

I moved to my present location back in September to start over. My goal was to get out of the house more, socialize, etc. You know, "because the world is my oyster." Socializing honestly felt like a chore, andI felt surrounded by narcissistic, idiotic people in their 20's who hate everything I believe in. Ok, then covid hit. Since then, I have resuscitated my introverted hobbies.

I've never been happier.

What this tells me is, I already had exactly what I wanted with my ex wife, almost to a T, EXCEPT that she didn't love me and decided to cheat on me and the relationship was emotionally desolate. It's kind of tragic, because everything was 100% right for having a normal life with kids but she didn't want them and instead wanted to run off with a 21 year old. Which is a similar age difference to me and this woman I like, but the difference is the guy is _21_ I didn't have any clue what I wanted from my life at 21, now I do.

Sometimes I feel like people look at me like I can jjust start everything over again at 37. It's like, yeah, there ARE single women around who don't have kids and might want them, but how many of _those_ are going to be interested in _me_, someone who likes to stay home pursuing introverted hobbies? Not that I never like to do anything interesting outside of the house, but, that is not my usual cup of tea. I'm probably boring to most women.

You know what the reality is? I'll probably be single til I'm 54 anyway and people in my generation finally understand what relationships actually should look like. So I might as well start dating in my age/wisdom category right away. Cause that's quite literally where I'm at.

Amusingly, I actually made friends with another woman in her early 50's a few months ago with whom I've had some very interesting conversations and have stuff in common with, and I could totally see myself with her if she was interested, as well. I just don't know her as well, haven't developed that fondness/familiarity that I have with the first woman i've been talking about, yet. The sorts of things she talks about and are interested in are things like meditation, animals, nature, music etc. I love all that stuff. It's like I've been older my whole life. I've ALWAYS had an easier time talking to people older than me, my entire life.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Do you folks even know how ridiculously abysmal modern dating is? And how hard it is to start a new social life and find people that you can actually relate to?

To add insult to injury, I grew up in a fundamentally christian household, but non-religious. So now at 37, I basically live like a Christian (for example, I abstain from porn and masturbation), yet I don't believe in God, at least not quite in the same way that Christians do. I don't NOT believe in god. I'm agnostic. So, that makes it hard for me to feel like I fit in at a church. A godly christian woman would want me to say Jesus about 3000x a day and I'm just not comfortable talking like that. The tragic thign is, that's the sort of person who would really understand and appreciate my disciplined lifestyle. The woman I've been interested in I think may be similar, she grew up catholic and is very conservative politically. So yeah, I have rather steep and unique challenges to deal with dating wise.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

onceler1 said:


> I don't yet know if she would even consider it a possibility. I think she was taken aback when I told her I have feelings for her. That was last week. I've been making sure to give her plenty of time and space and am not doing anything insecure or immature like pressing her further right away. In fact I don't think I'll bring it up again for a while. I want to see if she chooses to shut me down (and she will do it gently, she's that sort of person), or if she tacitly leaves the possibility open and just keeps talking to me.
> 
> I'm amused when people act like 37 means "the world is my oyster." I really don't know what that means. I've already achieved everything I wanted to, and already been through an 11 year marriage that took a lot out of me. What makes me happiest is staying at home and pursuing introverted hobbies.
> 
> ...


It’s hard to listen to the way you talk about yourself. Your selling yourself short.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Girl_power said:


> It’s hard to listen to the way you talk about yourself. Your selling yourself short.


What do you mean? I don't feel that I am. I'm living the life I want---doing hobbies at home (supported by a job. not a bum, just not ambitious) I want to find a partner compatible with this lifestyle and my level of emotional maturity.

Other people have told me this. What I make of it is that everyone is telling me I should want more, do more, etc. I don't. I like to be calm, peaceful, and do hobbies at home.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

onceler1 said:


> I don't yet know if she would even consider it a possibility. I think she was taken aback when I told her I have feelings for her. That was last week. I've been making sure to give her plenty of time and space and am not doing anything insecure or immature like pressing her further right away. In fact I don't think I'll bring it up again for a while. I want to see if she chooses to shut me down (and she will do it gently, she's that sort of person), or if she tacitly leaves the possibility open and just keeps talking to me.
> 
> I'm amused when people act like 37 means "the world is my oyster." I really don't know what that means. I've already achieved everything I wanted to, and already been through an 11 year marriage that took a lot out of me. What makes me happiest is staying at home and pursuing introverted hobbies.
> 
> ...


Really glad you're well adjusted and happy. I am also an introvert, people think just because I get along so well with most and I like to make people smile that I am an extrovert, but I am not. I don't think you'll have any problems finding a woman that can appreciate an introvert. I've dated extroverts and introverts. I've known lots of couples that are madly in love and she is the life of the party and he is the quiet type. It actually can work very well. I kind of get the feeling that some extroverted women may even prefer introverted men, especially if they prefer to be the center of attention. Us introverts really don't want that.

Being with an extrovert is kind of fun as long as they don't pressure you to be like them. You have their whole network of fun gatherings to go to, when you are in the mood for it, which is rare if you're an introvert, but when you want to participate, its there. I think the only thing I disagree with is perhaps you misunderstood the meaning of *your oyster*.

It literally is your oyster, meaning your life to do whatever you want with. If that means time for you and yourself, then thats cool, because its what you want to do. Don't let anyone tell you how your "oyster" should be. Its yours after all.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

onceler1 said:


> What this tells me is, I already had exactly what I wanted with my ex wife, almost to a T, EXCEPT that she didn't love me and decided to cheat on me and the relationship was emotionally desolate.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like people look at me like I can jjust start everything over again at 37. It's like, yeah, there ARE single women around who don't have kids and might want them, but how many of _those_ are going to be interested in _me_, someone who likes to stay home pursuing introverted hobbies?
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are depressed with low self esteem who is ready to settle for whatever he can get.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

onceler1 said:


> What do you mean? I don't feel that I am. I'm living the life I want---doing hobbies at home (supported by a job. not a bum, just not ambitious) I want to find a partner compatible with this lifestyle and my level of emotional maturity.
> 
> Other people have told me this. What I make of it is that everyone is telling me I should want more, do more, etc. I don't. I like to be calm, peaceful, and do hobbies at home.


I know exactly what she means. You're not selling yourself short because you are living the life you want. You should totally be doing that! And....honestly the fact that you are comfortable with just yourself, probably means you are ready to date if the right situation presents itself. From what I read, I feel you're selling yourself short because it seems like you feel that most women want a guy that is more "outgoing" than you are. Based on my experience, I've known guys with the personality of a turnip (not saying this is you) that have extroverted wives that adore them. Not to speak for @Girl_power but I think thats what she meant when she said that.

I don't have all sunshine and rainbows for you though. I will admit I am little concerned that this woman may not have mutual interest in you, this is based on how it is playing out, not saying it won't happen, but please don't be too disappointed or beat yourself up if she says thanks but no thanks.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Who cares If your not an extrovert. You talk about yourself like your defective. Your not! Stop thinking about all the things you are not and start focusing on all the things that you are! Your a really nice guy, loyal, smart, funny, in good shape, good job etc. any girl would be lucky to have a guy like you. Stop selling yourself short.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

You said those types of girls probably wouldn’t be interested in you. And that you will probably be single until your 53. Why would you say that about yourself? 
I think that you should really think about this because it’s a big deal. It doesn’t sound like you like yourself very much.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

I'm saying it because of how utterly abysmal online dating is. I'm on e-harmony and match.com, and I've sometimes tried the swiping apps (but those are terrible, just swiping through people feels extremely shallow and is exhausting). The number of people I've found on these sites that seem interesting to talk to is very small. Of those, very few respond. Of those that respond, I've had one date with a nice girl, and catfished by a 400lb whale on another date. So, that might mean somewhere in the next 10 years I meet someone who actually wants to be with me. That's not me saying I don't think I'm datable, I definitely think I am, but, I have to face the reality that I'm just incredibly different from most people in very profound ways.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Girl_power said:


> You said those types of girls probably wouldn’t be interested in you. And that you will probably be single until your 53. Why would you say that about yourself?
> I think that you should really think about this because it’s a big deal. It doesn’t sound like you like yourself very much.


I actually do think that plenty of girls that exist _would_ be interested in me, but my problem is one of statistics. At this age, all the good ones are gone.

I'm not as bad off as this guy thank goodness, but, a TON of what he says hits HARD.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Update: I actually just went out on a date with a super nice girl closer to my age (in her 30's). Very conservative, wants kids.

Here's the the thing though: I am actually finding this is making me desire the woman I've been discussing in this thread _more_ I'm actually finding I'm terrified of dating someone who is on the biological warpath to get her life and family started.

The sad thing is, if I hadn't been through my first marriage where I was passively abused/neglected, and I met this nice girl when I was a naive kid that still believed in marriage, _I would be all in_ because she matches pretty much everything to a T that I would have wanted.

But now I find that I am terrified. My parents are thrilled I met her of course. She's the closest "real thing" prospect I've ever met.

But the idea of even starting a relationship with someone who might want kids actually terrifies me.

I got divorced last year, finalized in September. Maybe I haven't fully decompressed yet, I don't know. I'm REALLY enjoying the peace. I LOVE low key living. This girl that I just met is extremely high energy, and very opinionated. I really think even if I dated her i'd become a hen pecked husk of a man within a very short period of time.

PLUS, this young girl hasn't had any relationships that lasted more than a year so far. SHE HAS NO IDEA WHAT MARRIAGE ACTUALLY CAN BE LIKE. I would be the older, more mature one. I would have to put her in her place for that to work, I just know it.

It just sounds like a huge amount of work, effort, time and money and if kids entered the picture, I would have no more peace, no more hobbies. My hobbies are like _everything_ to me. When 5 pm hits every day, I stop work and go do my hobbies.

Family life has never been a big dream for me. I pushed my ex wife to decide with me whether to have kids and now I realize it is because my parents wanted me to.

I have a nagging voice in my head saying that it would be a mistake. But, as some of you alluded to maybe I could adopt with the older woman (if that even happens). That honestly sounds more appealing to adopt ONE kid if I got bored enough to want that. Then it would be guaranteed to not be dead or autistic at least.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Oh and the woman I've been discussing continues to talk to me a lot, and the warmth/closeness feels like it is growing. She hasn't directly addressed my letter I told her I have feelings for her, but she hasn't shut me down over it yet either. That says to me she may consider it a possibility.

My thinking is I need to not date exclusively very quickly. I will keep seeing the young girl for a while because quite frankly she deserves a chance, but I am ALSO, if older woman is receptive to the idea, going to visit her and see if she can feel about me as more than just a really good friend.

One big difference between the two women is that the older one is verydown to earth, like me. I have an intellectual side, but I find down to earth culture and humor extremely refreshing as a contrast to my affluent academic upbringing. I've always been drawn to people who contrast with that. The girl I met the other day AMPLIFIES whatI grew up with, she's actually quite snobby. She said a few things which irritated me---but, that's lower on the hierarchy of importance to me than the fact she shares values.

But yeah those values? have been severely shaken with me because of my divorce and my sister's divorce. Marriage (with someone young who wants kids) seems like an enormous risk that will just totally suck me dry.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

onceler1 said:


> Update: I actually just went out on a date with a super nice girl closer to my age (in her 30's). Very conservative, wants kids.
> 
> Here's the the thing though: I am actually finding this is making me desire the woman I've been discussing in this thread _more_ I'm actually finding I'm terrified of dating someone who is on the biological warpath to get her life and family started.
> 
> ...


Don't bother with her.
You are at different stages of life.

She wants to get married asap and have kid, while you got divorced only a year ago and trying to overcome the whole process. Just don't deal with her. Not that she's bad but you two are looking for different things right now and you might end up hurting each other.

Just becuase she's younger than you doesn't mean you have to automatically see a future with her.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If you find your new date "snobby" and "irritating" and term the fact that women aren't fertile forever and being aware of that as being on a "biological warfare" please do her a HUGE FAVOR, stop wasting her time. Stop dating her.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

OP, a couple of things. You are thinking about an awful lot for only going on one date this woman. With that said, I do think you need to move on. I say this because you don't want kids. If that's the case don't compromise. As adults its not cool to string someone along if you know you have a vast difference in the future paths that you both desire. I say move on because I fear that even if you tell her you don't want kids, she may think she can change your mind. Between that and the fact that you describe her as snobby and opinionated, I don't think you should keep dating her.

As for the older lady you have a crush on....I really do hope I am wrong here, but my instincts rarely are. I don't think the feelings are mutual. I feel like she is getting ready to either let you down easy, or is planning on never bringing it up again and hoping that you don't either. In my opinion you screwed up by writing the letter. This isn't middle school. You're a grown man. You should have just flat out asked her out on a date. Then you would know one way or the other and you could move on if she wasn't interested. Right now you're kind of in limbo, and her cautious reaction to the letter makes me think its unlikely that she is interested. My advice is to just keep dating, you'll figure it out in time, and most likely find what you're looking for. Its a process.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

ReformedHubby said:


> OP, a couple of things. You are thinking about an awful lot for only going on one date this woman. With that said, I do think you need to move on. I say this because you don't want kids. If that's the case don't compromise. As adults its not cool to string someone along if you know you have a vast difference in the future paths that you both desire. I say move on because I fear that even if you tell her you don't want kids, she may think she can change your mind. Between that and the fact that you describe her as snobby and opinionated, I don't think you should keep dating her.
> 
> As for the older lady you have a crush on....I really do hope I am wrong here, but my instincts rarely are. I don't think the feelings are mutual. I feel like she is getting ready to either let you down easy, or is planning on never bringing it up again and hoping that you don't either. In my opinion you screwed up by writing the letter. This isn't middle school. You're a grown man. You should have just flat out asked her out on a date. Then you would know one way or the other and you could move on if she wasn't interested. Right now you're kind of in limbo, and her cautious reaction to the letter makes me think its unlikely that she is interested. My advice is to just keep dating, you'll figure it out in time, and most likely find what you're looking for. Its a process.


Thanks for your thoughts. It's obviously something I have to sort out, as this thread only provides a small sampling of data points from my own continuous experience and instincts on both situations. For example, a lot of folks see me say that I'm divorced and imagine I went through an ordeal. However, it was a pretty easy divorce, no conflict, no courts. Was over in 3 months. So, I'm afraid that if I accept the idea that I have so much more to work through, that it would just be my lazy side going: "yeah! don't try to go for someone who could offer you a real life, just DO NOTHING. ITS EASIER" haha.

As for the older woman and the letter, I don't think I screwed up. I agree it feels slightly immature that I sent it, however, I have not pressed her to respond directly to it. I think if I did THAT, it would definitely seem like a highschool kid. It's certainly possible she's still trying to figure out a way to let me down, however, since then she seems to be drawing closer to me and wanting to spend more time with me. Like she's trying to sort out whether she could feel that way. So I'm not so sure you're right. She and I have had a ton of heart to heart talks about life and marriage, and we were both abused in different ways by our exes. It's kinda forming a bond. Whether or not she does end up feeling romantically for me, she cares about me a lot and that feeling is definitely mutual. If nothing else, she'll seem like a 3rd older sister to me. (like I said, she is close to the age of one of my 2 older sisters). 

Thanks again, I appreciate all feedback, helps me think things through. This site rules, it was very helpful to me when I was struggling with my first marriage 5 years ago. I was able to make things better but...welp, you know the story, the ex cheated anyway lol


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

On the children thing, how would I know if I wanted them? I don't think I do. I think I'm passive about it. I missed out on being really cherished and loved by a woman in my first marriage, so that's really what I'm looking for. If I fall blindingly in love with someone who really does love me back, and they want a kid? I'd do it. But at this point I can't say having children is truly on my own personal bucket list.

So I think that's a big reason why I have feelings for the older woman, I already feel this real warmth and affection coming from her. It's the sort of female energy that I was starving for for 11 years. It just hasn't become actually romantically oriented yet. But maybe it won't, I don't know.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

It sounds like you want a mother son relationship. You want to be loved and cherished, with little effort and work.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

onceler1 said:


> I'm actually finding I'm terrified of dating someone who is on the biological warpath to get her life and family started.





onceler1 said:


> But the idea of even starting a relationship with someone who might want kids actually terrifies me.





onceler1 said:


> . I would have to put her in her place for that to work, I just know





onceler1 said:


> My hobbies are like _everything_ to me. When 5 pm hits every day, I stop work and go do my hobbies.





onceler1 said:


> I have a nagging voice in my head saying that it would be a mistake. But, as some of you alluded to maybe I could adopt with the older woman (if that even happens). That honestly sounds more appealing to adopt ONE kid if I got bored enough to want that. *Then it would be guaranteed to not be dead or autistic at least.*


Do both women a favor and decide to remain single. You're scared to death of being a father and you're too into yourself to be a good one. Even the older woman would tire of her spouse considering his hobbies his 'everything'.

You come across as a guy looking for a mommy or another big sister who will coddle you. Look around the forum and see the threads where the wife wants a divorce because her husband can't get his head out of his hobbies. The wives feel used. Don't be a user. Nowhere is it written that you can't be single for the rest of your life. 

Your family may be hoping that you will have a son to carry on the family name. There are no guarantees.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Once, a long time ago I had to make a choice similar to you. I had broken up with a girlfriend that was 4 years older than me because she moved away and the long distance thing wasn't working out that great. So I started dating a girl 17 years younger than me. Talk about a 20 year swing in age.

The younger gal was truly beautiful but she sensed that I was still in love with 4 years older and she was right. I cared for 17 years younger and she was a hot chick, but I really didnt love her and told her so.

So she told me 'go back to your ex!' And I did. Love is a funny thing. 

Now my sit wasn't exactly like yours because she was only 4 years older, and I dont know if your older woman actually loves you, but I guess the moral of the story is that love knows no bounds, be it age or anything else.


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> Are you prepared to be widowed in the next 10 - 20 years? How many of those years will be spent caring for a sick spouse?


Good lord, really? My mom is nearly 80 and practically runs circles around me, and I'm active.


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

Boy, the young women on here certainly have a chip on their shoulders about this lol.

I'm 52 and feel 35. I'm not gonna die in 10 years. How silly.

OP, if you like this woman, go see what happens. My aunt was 18 years younger than my uncle, and they were married for a looooong time. He lived to be 92.

My friend has been married to a woman 10 years older since 1989. She's not dead lol.

I think the high maintenance gen y's just feel threatened by us sexy seasoned women....or something (that's a joke)

Just because you don't want a child bride doesn't mean you want a mommy!


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Don't worry I take all the posts in here with a grain of salt. Like I mentioned, you all get a few data points from my life which may be colored by my mood or aspirations of the day. Perhaps I've already accomplished alot with my hobbies and wouldn't mind sacrificing for a real family life and a real woman who wants that. Life is hard to sort out.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Update: Holy crap...she's actually into me. She's talking about visiting me here and I was already planning on visiting her there (she lives in the town I moved from). so... this might actually happen (older woman). Now I'm kind of excited. Now what the heck do I do with this new girl I met who I set a date with this saturday? I should probably keep it cause its not like the relationship with the older woman is absolutely certain, but she is definitely interested.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

onceler1 said:


> Update: Holy crap...she's actually into me. She's talking about visiting me here and I was already planning on visiting her there (she lives in the town I moved from). so... this might actually happen (older woman). Now I'm kind of excited. Now what the heck do I do with this new girl I met who I set a date with this saturday? *I should probably keep it cause its not like the relationship with the older woman is absolutely certain, but she is definitely interested.*


You want to have the other girls as a back-up plan. This enough should tell you that they are not the one for you. 
If dating them progresses in any relationship (with any of them)..think about it.... would you be satisfied by marrying a back-up plan?
It wouldn't make you happy in the long run.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

secretsheriff said:


> Good lord, really? My mom is nearly 80 and practically runs circles around me, and I'm active.


I'm happy for you. My mom is 92 and my sister died when she was 64.

Hopefully, the universe will find you to be a person of interest and not lay waste to your plans to live a long and healthy life. Enjoy your stay.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

lovelygirl said:


> You want to have the other girls as a back-up plan. This enough should tell you that they are not the one for you.
> If dating them progresses in any relationship (with any of them)..think about it.... would you be satisfied by marrying a back-up plan?
> It wouldn't make you happy in the long run.


Neither of the two women are backup plans right now. The two things happened at the same time, I can't control that. I was forming a bond with the older woman, and then this younger woman appeared on match.com and I've had one date with her. Neither relationship is set in stone. Rest assured, I would not play games with either of them. The older woman knows I have been dating (and she has too, its just that it doesn't work out for either of us, maybe because we actuallly like each other?). and I won't let things go on too long with the younger woman (if they even get past the second date). Nothing's set in stone anyway; maybe I end up developing feelings for this younger woman faster than expected (I don't expect this right now honestly, but woh knows) and it'll go the other way. I've never been in this position before, and quite frankly, it feels really really good that two women are at least interested in me at the moment.

I should add, I'm super old fashioned and so is the new girl I started dating---I won't be getting sexually involved with more than one person. I would never do that.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You’re being completely unfair to the younger woman because it’s obvious you don’t have a real interest in her. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> I'm happy for you. My mom is 92 and my sister died when she was 64.
> 
> Hopefully, the universe will find you to be a person of interest and not lay waste to your plans to live a long and healthy life. Enjoy your stay.


Thanks for the good wishes. I'm truly sorry about your sister 😪


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> You’re being completely unfair to the younger woman because it’s obvious you don’t have a real interest in her.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's not 100% true. I only had ONE date with her, it seems unwise to write her off immediately. But maybe I should break it off after the second date if I don't feel anything.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

onceler1 said:


> Update: Holy crap...she's actually into me. She's talking about visiting me here and I was already planning on visiting her there (she lives in the town I moved from). so... this might actually happen (older woman). Now I'm kind of excited. Now what the heck do I do with this new girl I met who I set a date with this saturday? I should probably keep it cause its not like the relationship with the older woman is absolutely certain, but she is definitely interested.


I would just be honest with the new girl. Early in the date this saturday, just mention that you're playing the field a bit right now. 

She probably is, too. Same goes for the older woman.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Marduk said:


> I would just be honest with the new girl. Early in the date this saturday, just mention that you're playing the field a bit right now.
> 
> She probably is, too. Same goes for the older woman.


Good advice. Yes, I had planned to be up front with the new girl about things, that I'm not planning on being exclusive super fast or anything. Older woman is already aware. she's been dating too. but, its getting a little clearer she and I want to find out if we can be a thing. we have so much in common its insane, AND we have formed this bond over being screwed over by our divorces. this could be a recipe for dynamite


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

onceler1 said:


> I've never been in this position before, and quite frankly, it feels really really good that two women are at least interested in me at the moment.


This is what I feared. You're getting an ego boost but this doesn't give you the right to keep plan A and B with women.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

lovelygirl said:


> This is what I feared. You're getting an ego boost but this doesn't give you the right to keep plan A and B with women.


Well, the thing is both things are pretty new. The older woman is keeping an open mind, she didn't say she's ready to hop in bed with me the instant we see each other again. The younger woman I JUST met, and is not on anything remotely approaching an exclusive basis yet. I haven't even kissed her. I probably won't to be honest, because I have difficulty investing those sorts of emotions into more than one person at a time. Which could be problematic that my emotions are currently invested in the older woman, but it might not work out. So, it's just a tricky situation. Yes my ego got a boost but I'm also a very emotionally mature person and I know what's going on, and have no intention of hurting anybody or stringing anyone along.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> This is what I feared. You're getting an ego boost but this doesn't give you the right to keep plan A and B with women.


Why not? As long as you're being honest. They're also probably dating other people and figuring things out.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

onceler1 said:


> Update: Holy crap...she's actually into me. She's talking about visiting me here and I was already planning on visiting her there (she lives in the town I moved from). so... this might actually happen (older woman). Now I'm kind of excited. Now what the heck do I do with this new girl I met who I set a date with this saturday? I should probably keep it cause its not like the relationship with the older woman is absolutely certain, but she is definitely interested.


Congrats, glad I was wrong about her feelings for you!


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

ReformedHubby said:


> Congrats, glad I was wrong about her feelings for you!


I mean its definitely not like absolutely 100% for sure going to happen. And actually I keep thinking about everything she said to me, and, part of me is wondering if she just wants to have a fling with me but not long term. But I mean she left it all open, saying optimistically that she doesn't know what her future holds and to just live life. So, she seems receptive to the possibility and has definitely been talking to me more and seeming more playful than usual in how she does, as well as discussing possible plans to visit each other. So, there seems like a really good chance of this happening. She made me promise I'd stay her friend no matter what, that's the part that tells me she might have no intention of wanting to have anything with me long term. But I'm okay with this. We're in the same spot with life really. Various family members keep telling me I should want kids but I'm almost 37 and I still don't know (i..e obviously being involved with this older woman long term would prevent that). So I'm gonna go for it cause I've wanted her for so long.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

In dating, it's usually good to have options, until you decide to be exclusive. I found that one date was usually enough to decide if someone was a _poor_ match, but it could take several dates to determine if someone was a _good_ match and worth dating further. Even so, many of the initially good matches did not last beyond a few months - about the length of time I usually needed to decide on being exclusive. So, until then, having other prospects kept the dating momentum going.

Some people dislike multi-dating, but many - like myself - find it efficient and effective, and in no way interferes with deciding when to become exclusive.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Well, if you haven't said you will be exclusive to EITHER of them, you can certainly keep both dates if you think YOU can handle doing that. BUT make sure you are doing it for the right reasons and not making the younger girl your plan B.
One thing I wanted to mention:


onceler1 said:


> The sad thing is, if I hadn't been through my first marriage where I was passively abused/neglected, and I met this nice girl when I was a naive kid that still believed in marriage, _I would be all in_ because she matches pretty much everything to a T that I would have wanted.
> *But now I find that I am terrified*.





onceler1 said:


> or example, a lot of folks see me say that I'm divorced and imagine I went through an ordeal. However, it was a pretty easy divorce, no conflict, no courts. Was over in 3 months. So, I'm afraid that if I accept the idea that I have so much more to work through, that it would just be my lazy side going: "yeah! don't try to go for someone who could offer you a real life, just DO NOTHING. ITS EASIER" haha.


So the DIVORCE itself was pretty easy, but the relationship was awful? To ME, it sounds like you haven't really healed from marriage issues. It already IS affecting any potential relationship here. Maybe you should consider some IC to get past those fears/issues so that no matter WHO you date, you will be a "better" you and able to really appreciate and go "all in" to the new relationship.
I'd hate to see you miss out on something good due to the unresolved issues from your marriage.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Yes, the relationship was extremely desolate. Everything was right physically, and she took care of the house, and of me, in a totally dutiful fashion, but the warmth and emotions that were somewhat there in the beginning grew totally cold after about 5 years, and she stopped even wanting to hug me most of the time or cuddle on the couch---I actually got pretty upset about this and practically begged her to keep showing me that kind of affection, but in 2015 when I found this site I got advice here to STOP lecturing her about how often we had sex and stop asking her for even the affection because just that begging/clingy behavior might be part of the problem. Well, it was definitely part of the problem, and I STOPPED all of that behavior cold turkey. Things got a little better for a while, at least with sex, but she still was cold towards me emotionally and remained so up until when she cheated. Though, during her affair, suddenly sex was really good and I now realize she must have been thinking about her new lover. Ugh. 

So yeah til she cheated I had everything I needed except an emotional connection. It was desolate. Kind of like if I had a droid wife who did everything a wife needs to do for a husband, except being an actual human that loves him.

I'm terrified primarily of the idea of having children, not really of another relationship. There are so many reasons I'm terrified:
-one sister had a stillbirth
-other sister had an autistic child, and it is 24/7 torture. I myself while I love my nephew have great difficulty remaining calm around him because he is so difficult.
-the world is becoming increasingly more hostile to family life
-my parents already spent hundreds of thousands of dollars propping up me and my ex wife, bought us a house, paid for tons of home improvements, paid for our wedding, and many other gifs. I HATE.....HATE HATE HATE HATE the idea of being in a situation that would prompt them to prop me up yet again.
-we're ruining the planet and the world really doesn't need more humans for a while. let's cool it!
-my lifestyle has been extremely peaceful for 37 years, the idea of suddenly having a baby shrieking in my face 24/7 I think I would not be able to handle it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

What did she say was the reason for being so cold? 

Your next relationship, you need to realize that you need to split the a household work 50-50.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Girl_power said:


> What did she say was the reason for being so cold?
> 
> Your next relationship, you need to realize that you need to split the a household work 50-50.


Haha, you don't know the whole truth. We definitely did. I took out the garbage, I did 100% of the cat litter every single morning, I mowed the lawn, I maintained the coal furnace, I did lots of handy things around the house. Also, she didn't work, only I did, so I think I took on more than enough. Honestly the truth is, I would be a fantastic husband to a woman who appreciated what I had to offer, she just didn't. And had deep issues of her own, her dad committed suicide. Probably had something to do with her being unable to connect emotionally.

Now, I did lecture her alot early in the relationship, about lots of things, for both good and bad reasons:
-annoyed with quirks of hers like gushing over cats constantly (that was stupid of me)
-pushed her to get violin lessons because she always wanted to learn. I offered to pay. She declined.
-pushed her to lose weight ALONG WITH ME (it was not stated like I was unhappy with her weight). When I stopped lecturing her about this, she did take this one thing on by herself.
-pushed her to learn to drive so she could help me with big responsibilities like driving her sick mother around. she never did.
-pushed her to at least talk to me about the future and decide about children. In retrospect, I was unable to determine if I wanted them, I just wanted her to nail it down.
-lectured her about how often we had sex. I STOPPED THIS in 2015 completely, cold turkey, due to advice I received on this site. Things did get better for a while. Now, it is very easy for me to abstrain from sexual activity including masturbation for weeks at a time---this will be a great gift for my next partner, cause waiting just makes it better!

So, I worked really hard at improving what I may have caused with regards to her feeling cold emotionally but the truth is she never lifted a finger to really help advance our relationship or connection. I asked her nearly every month how Iw as doing as a husband, whether I was listening well etc. etc. And then when she cheated she said she hadn't felt anything for me in 5 years. Well then why teh **** didn't she talk to me when I asked? She ****ed up big time.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

onceler1 said:


> Haha, you don't know the whole truth. We definitely did. I took out the garbage, I did 100% of the cat litter every single morning, I mowed the lawn, I maintained the coal furnace, I did lots of handy things around the house. Also, she didn't work, only I did, so I think I took on more than enough. Honestly the truth is, I would be a fantastic husband to a woman who appreciated what I had to offer, she just didn't. And had deep issues of her own, her dad committed suicide. Probably had something to do with her being unable to connect emotionally.


Yea that changes things.
But it still doesn’t change what I said about more than likely having to split house hold chores 50-50 in your new relationship.

I don’t know exactly what kind of setup you want for your new relationship, but most women want 50-50.
It’s ok to want the women to do all the household work, but that will probably only happen if she stays home and doesn’t work. Not many women do this, especially with no kids.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Talk about a role reversal. Usually it is the man who can't open up. I was the emotionally vulnerable and communicative one, she was the totally closed off one.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Girl_power said:


> Yea that changes things.
> But it still doesn’t change what I said about more than likely having to split house hold chores 50-50 in your new relationship.
> 
> I don’t know exactly what kind of setup you want for your new relationship, but most women want 50-50.
> It’s ok to want the women to do all the household work, but that will probably only happen if she stays home and doesn’t work. Not many women do this, especially with no kids.


I'm 100% good with 50 50 anything, I just want someone who actually really likes me. I feel something I've never felt before talking to the older woman I've mentioned in this thread---when I go see her later this month I'll find out if it was truly mutual or just built up mostly in my imagination, but, I really care about her and I know she cares about me. It's an incredible feeling. Never had an emotional connection with a woman ever before in my life.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Next time, realize that people don’t change. And you need to fall in love with the women for who she is, NOT who you want her to be. This way, you don’t waste time and energy trying to change someone who won’t change.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

onceler1 said:


> I'm 100% good with 50 50 anything, I just want someone who actually really likes me. I feel something I've never felt before talking to the older woman I've mentioned in this thread---when I go see her later this month I'll find out if it was truly mutual or just built up mostly in my imagination, but, I really care about her and I know she cares about me. It's an incredible feeling. Never had an emotional connection with a woman ever before in my life.


It sounds like you were the one who didn’t like your wife. Constantly trying to get her to change.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

You are 100% right about that. That side of me that wanted a partner to change totally died over the past 11 years.

It seems to me a lot of folks go into marriage making similar mistakes, having an agenda about their partner instead of really being on the same page with plans for life...


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

In fact I would say my agenda for making my ex wife change died in 2015. I treated her WAY better after I first sought help on this site (someone on here actually reached out to me privately as a no-charge counselor, and really helped me. I'm really grateful to that person!). But, despite the changes I made, she was still not growing with me at all, despite things being better than previously.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

onceler1 said:


> You are 100% right about that. That side of me that wanted a partner to change totally died over the past 11 years.
> 
> It seems to me a lot of folks go into marriage making similar mistakes, having an agenda about their partner instead of really being on the same page with plans for life...


I 100% agree, and that is how problems are started. 

Expectations kill relationships.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

So I keep talking to the older woman and I've made plans to visit her later this month. She shared something with me (a post from somewhere on social media) about age being irrelevant. Haha, that certainly seems like she's thinking about it even though she hasn't made it explicit. Then we had an online date of sorts playing a game together, haha.

Needless to say, my aspirations and fantasy around this woman combined with my real friendship with her are kinda out of control at this point. I don't think I've ever imagined that I wanted somebody this badly in my life. It's like romance novel level nuttiness going on in my mind (and body actually, I can't control it, the last time this happened to me I was 18 and too repressed to go for it or enjoy it, didn't have sex even when I had a perfect opportunity with someone I really liked). I am well aware of what is going on though and I'm trying as hard as I possibly can to keep my feet on the ground, because when we meet again in person it is conceivable it could all evaporate at once.

I've had a couple of nutty fantasies about a couple of other women I've met since my divorce, but nothing like this because this woman I've known for years and am actually good friends with and she wants to talk to me and enjoys talking to me.

Well, this is quite an adventure, I am looking forward to seeing her to say the least!

I feel kind of bad at the moment harboring these kinds of feelings about another woman while I go on a second date this saturday with the younger woman, but the problem is, I AM afraid my feelings are part of the healing process post divorce and maybe they will in fact evaporate. It's possible. But it could be real. I just won't know unless I keep living my life. I'll be up front with the younger woman that I'm not dating exclusively yet, so she knows what to expect going forward. It wouldn't be fair esp if she likes me to start to get her hopes up.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Is she no longer friends with your ex? 

There is something about preying on your ex's friends that is just so ewwww.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Is she no longer friends with your ex?
> 
> There is something about preying on your ex's friends that is just so ewwww.


Nope she and basically everyone my ex new ditched her after she cheated on me, haha. I'm one of the only people who still talks to my ex, and its just to see cat pictures lol.

This isn't something I aimed for or expected and I don't feel as though I'm preying upon anybody. She in fact is the one who began reaching out to me after my ex and I split, and we just started talking from there. Been a year now and we've become really good friends. I feel like this phenomenon isn't terribly uncommon in the world.

Both of us had spouses who mistreated us in different ways, we've really bonded over this. Both our exes had terrible childhoods, but me and this woman both had good childhoods. So there's just a ton of things that line up. lifestyle, values, background, sense of humor, etc. The only thing that's really up in the air is whether there could be chemistry in person. I definitely think she's gorgeous, in fact she's the most beautiful woman I think I've ever seen in my life. I don't know for sure if she feels something for me though, only time will tell lol.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

I dunno what sort of guy you're imagining I am Blondilocks but I feel like the last guy on the planet who should be pinned as any thing remotely approaching a "predator" LOL. I'm nerdy, I play piano, I stay inside, I play video games, I make video games. That's my entire life. I don't do stereotypical annoying aggressive male things. But I'm still capable of falling in love with someone haha


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I think you should enjoy the moment with both women. You can let them know your intentions. I mean, you are not proposing to either one of them! You're meeting and getting to know them (even though you know the older woman already.) Meeting in a romantic way is different than meeting and becoming friends. Just be yourself.

The best dates I have ever had were when I didn't have any expectations. I remember going out with my husband (my friend at the time) and having a blast because I was myself and not worried about him liking me. 

I wouldn't have kids if I were you. I feel people have to be sure before jumping into fatherhood or motherhood. 

Do what feels right. What does your gut tell you?


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

pastasauce79 said:


> I think you should enjoy the moment with both women. You can let them know your intentions. I mean, you are not proposing to either one of them! You're meeting and getting to know them (even though you know the older woman already.) Meeting in a romantic way is different than meeting and becoming friends. Just be yourself.
> 
> The best dates I have ever had were when I didn't have any expectations. I remember going out with my husband (my friend at the time) and having a blast because I was myself and not worried about him liking me.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post! Well, hard to know with my gut because I've been a highly cerebral and neurotic person for much of my life, and I think it is owing to having lived too little life, so, now that I'm living it, it's a little tricky to navigate these situations.

I'm looking forward to the date with the younger woman tonight and yeah, I have no expectations. That's actually what I keep telling myself about both situations, to stress not having expectations. I'm taking each storm of hopeful romantic dreams about the one woman and just letting them blow past, accepting it but acknowledging it isn't real until it is real, if that makes sense.

And yeah, I think if I ever raise a kid it'll be because it grew out of really loving and being loved by the right partner for me, not because we just planned to have them from the start. Right at the moment though, my life is very fulfilling and has always been without them---intensely creative person with music and video games, etc, which I always look forward to.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Holy crap my dear friends on this site.

Older woman is DEFINITELY into me. Talking to her tonight. This keeps happening. A tiny little conversation that starts with a funny meme turns into a deep heartfelt talk. She is being very upfront with her feelings with me tonight. She DEFINITELY is into me. I'm REALLY excited to go see her now...!


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Aaand...younger woman texted me saying she felt no chemistry. So I basically am squarely focused on the woman I'm so interested in who is 17 years older, and she seems very interested in me. This is quite easily the most interesting moment of my life.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

I forgot to mention I discovered some age gap rule:

"According to the *rule*, the *age* of the younger partner (regardless of gender) should be no less than seven more than half the older partner's *age*. Martin, then, shouldn't date anyone younger than 26 and a half; Lawrence shouldn't go above 34. The *rule* is widely cited, but its origins are hard to pin down. "

So according to this, the woman I'm interested in shouldn't date someone younger than 34. I'm 37.

According to this, my ex wife shouldn't date someone younger than 27 (she is 40). He is 21. HAHA. I feel smug.

According to this, my sister's soon to be ex husband shouldn't date someone younger than 31. He cheated on my sister with someone who was 28. HAHA. I feel smug.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

I don't have time to read all the posts but I'll chime in and please excuse any repeats. I dated a lady 15 years younger than myself with kids 8 and 10 years younger than my daughter. I had to think through a lot of that before trying to build a serious relationship.

Some issues I had to consider (take whatever fits your situation):

Do I have the energy level and patience to keep up with a younger spouse and her kids?
Do we have compatible goals? She's done having kids and we were both still building careers, so that was set. But that's in no way guaranteed with a large age gap.
Is she okay with the likelihood that I'll predecease her and leave her a widow as she's entering her golden years?
Can I afford to help maintain a larger family? Treating the three kids unequally would be a bad move and I get zero help from my kid's mom financially.
Can I afford to leave my partner on solid financial footing assuming I do predecease her?

Luckily I had that under control and the relationship ended for stuff unrelated to the age gap. But before embarking on an LTR with a much older person you need to consider your (both of you) values, expectations, and resources because these issues will come before you know it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

onceler1 said:


> Holy crap my dear friends on this site.
> 
> Older woman is DEFINITELY into me. Talking to her tonight. This keeps happening. A tiny little conversation that starts with a funny meme turns into a deep heartfelt talk. She is being very upfront with her feelings with me tonight. She DEFINITELY is into me. I'm REALLY excited to go see her now...!


And the rest of us are here like "duh" after the part about age being just a number. LOL!!

Dude, if you're into it and she's into it, go for it. See if you even get along well together before worrying about all the what-ifs in an age-gap situation. Shoot, you might even find that she's considered this carefully after knowing your ex for a while and seeing what kind of uy you are. This isn't some blind date.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> Who cares If your not an extrovert. You talk about yourself like your defective. Your not! Stop thinking about all the things you are not and start focusing on all the things that you are! Your a really nice guy, loyal, smart, funny, in good shape, good job etc. any girl would be lucky to have a guy like you. Stop selling yourself short.


This! You don't even have to be in that great a shape, have that good a job, etc. Just be a decent interesting guy who takes care of business and you stand out from the large pool of blah men you hear women complaining about regularly.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

secretsheriff said:


> Good lord, really? My mom is nearly 80 and practically runs circles around me, and I'm active.


It's a real thing! Happened to a co-worker who was much younger than her husband.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lovelygirl said:


> We have the example of the French President E.Macron (42) who is married to a 67 y.o woman. Their marriage seems to be working but I wouldn't rely on this example alone to state that it'll work for similar examples.


This is a bad example. Macron's wife was actually his HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER when they met. Somehow he started wooing her while he was a student and she eventually left her husband for him. Comical yet kinda creepy.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lovelygirl said:


> Meh. It would still be considered weird or a huge age gap. Less stigmatized than your situation.


I'm going to have to disagree on this; it can happen but is in no way guaranteed or even likely. I never caught any crap from having a GF 15 years my junior, and neither did she that I heard about. Her family really liked what I was about, liked that I was really good to her and her kids, and that I took good care of them. I'm still on good terms with them, and they tend to think she made a mistake by moving on.

For my part, my family never made comments about me robbing the cradle or her just wanting to be cared for. Everyone just saw two people who got along well and were happy for us.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

It's interesting to observe my own emotions change and my conversations with the older woman develop leading up to when I go see her later this month. I certainly had what most certainly must have been some sort of hormonal explosion of soaring expectations and fantasy about this woman just about a week ago, and it was so intense I crashed and slept for like 9 hours. Then I had a day or two of feeling kind of emotionally clingy---HOWEVER I DID NOT ACT ON THIS. I kept my distance for a couple of days.

Now I've returned back to center, and I've recommitted myself to the following: my absolute top priority is that this woman is my friend first and foremost. Whether or not it becomes a romantic or sexual relationship I'm considering a secondary consideration and not of prime importance. The reasons I'm committing to this are:

1) When I had told her of my feelings she made me promise to be her friend either way. I said of course!
2) If I think of her as a sexual end-goal, then all my thinking will be in terms of cat and mouse gameplay, or manipulation: "How do I make her want to have sex with me?" I don't like thinking this way.
3) I genuinely like her, the person. And she genuinely likes me, the person. That's actually MORE important to me than sex. I already was married 11 years. I know what sex is like. And quite frankly, it is overrated. IF I ever have sex again, I want it to be because I formed a really strong friendship with a woman FIRST. Then, it has potential to be a really special expression of affection for someone who really means something to me.
4) A good friend of mine gave me advice along these lines---he said: "pretend sex is not an option" and said, with the right woman this actually makes you more desirable---because the woman feels valued, doesn't feel like a piece of meat.

So we'll see what happens. She keeps dropping little hints or alluding to my original letter seeming to indicate continued openness to us becoming more than friends, so, obviously I'll have a background hope that it develops. She's gorgeous. God, it would be a dream come true. Did I mention she was a red head? I have a thing for red heads. Big time LOL.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

onceler1 said:


> he said: "pretend sex is not an option" and said, with the right woman this actually makes you more desirable---because the woman feels valued, doesn't feel like a piece of meat.


That's a good advice and I wish all men could think like that at some point in their lives.



onceler1 said:


> I genuinely like her, the person. And she genuinely likes me, the person. That's actually MORE important to me than sex.


If that's the case, give it a try. It's not surprising. You're attracted to mature people (mentally) so whether it's a man or a woman, it's this type of character you get along with better.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

lovelygirl said:


> That's a good advice and I wish all men could think like that at some point in their lives.


I think a trap many men fall into, and I'm no exception, is that men tend to get obsessed with their own virility to the point where it causes toxic situations with the opposite sex, whether you're trying to attract one or whether you're already married to one and you're demanding too much. Maybe men worry too much about being "friendzoned." And then engage in all sorts of thinking about how to trick women into wanting them sexually. I've had a bunch of girlfriends, and was married 11 years, I only recall getting friendzoned once haha. I guess that means I have enough mojo I shouldn't worry about that. LOL. But with this woman I just don't know what to really expect since it's quite new territory for both me and her (the age difference). I think that's probablly more what's going on than anything. It's like, I like her, she likes me, she hasn't shut me down, she's open to it, but we both are like: "okay, this is new. But maybe it could work..."  so I guess I'll just find out when I go see her.

and yeah I might not have mentioned this would wind up being long distance at first, but the thing is I don't have very deep roots where I moved to recently, she lives back where I came from it'd be easy to go back---if this develops to that point... but I'm getting way ahead of myself lol.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

onceler1 said:


> I think a trap many men fall into, and I'm no exception, is that men tend to get obsessed with their own virility to the point where it causes toxic situations with the opposite sex, whether you're trying to attract one or whether you're already married to one and you're demanding too much. Maybe men worry too much about being "friendzoned." And then engage in all sorts of thinking about how to trick women into wanting them sexually.


Hmmm. I'm not sure how accurate this is. I agree that you shouldn't manipulate a woman (by lying about your attraction level, for instance) to get sex. Nor should you need sex to bolster a poor self image.

But beyond that, what is the toxic behavior to which you are referring? What is demanding too much? Personally, if I was married or living with someone I'd be a 2x per week person, which is perfectly reasonable. A lady saying that is too much for her doesn't make either of us unreasonable or wrong. It just means that she's not into me (or sex period) that much and we're not well-suited for each other unless she can work her way up to 2x per week.

Similarly, a woman resenting some level of sex being a requirement does not mean that having such an expectation is unreasonable. My attitude is "I don't require sex, but my relationships do". If a lady wants a guy who is willing to be a solid everyday partner without getting that need met, I'm not the right person for her. As long as I'm honest about it there's nothing wrong with having that outlook.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Well, I've seen several marriages ruined due to porn addiction for example. Sometimes the woman seems to be blamed because of withholding sex, but then if you dig a little bit deeper, you find that the man actually was being very petulant, demanding, or critical towards the woman concerning sex---which completely turns her off. I actually myself began to behave somewhat this way towards my ex wife, when her interest in sex began to slow down a bit. I used to like 2x a week as well, but she began to only seem to want it about 1x a week or sometimes less. My response was to become quite petulant and demanding as a result. Frustrated I came to this website for advice. A generous person on this site actually reached out to me to talk to me in PMs for a while, and suggested that I simply grow up and wait for my woman to be ready and be gentle and patient with her. This did actually greatly improve things for a while, but her pace of being ready for sex was slower than mine. However, I actually learned to abstain for longer than I had previously been comfortable with, and the result is that the sex with my wife improved.

Perhaps others are lucky enough to navigate these situations without frustration entering the picture... I'm grateful in my case I was able to resolve it just by increasing my own ability to be patient. However, I know of two marriages of people who were close to me where the man became so obsessed with porn and his own virility and frequency of sex that he completely ruined the sex life with his wife and ended in a terrible divorce. So...if you've avoided this, have a high sex drive and a woman receptive to it...good for you...but it destroys a lot of people it seems to me.

So that's in the scenario of being married. Toxicity as I see it with respect to trying to attract someone is basically just that you want sex so badly it completely blinds your ability to interact with a woman on a normal human to human basis.

I've had a pretty piss poor love life, here. If I actually manage to have a healthy, real relationship with the woman I've been discussing in this thread it'll be an awfully nice break/good karma returning, that's for damn sure...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

onceler1 said:


> Well, I've seen several marriages ruined due to porn addiction for example. Sometimes the woman seems to be blamed because of withholding sex, but then if you dig a little bit deeper, you find that the man actually was being very petulant, demanding, or critical towards the woman concerning sex---which completely turns her off. I actually myself began to behave somewhat this way towards my ex wife, when her interest in sex began to slow down a bit. I used to like 2x a week as well, but she began to only seem to want it about 1x a week or sometimes less. My response was to become quite petulant and demanding as a result. Frustrated I came to this website for advice. A generous person on this site actually reached out to me to talk to me in PMs for a while, and suggested that I simply grow up and wait for my woman to be ready and be gentle and patient with her. This did actually greatly improve things for a while, but her pace of being ready for sex was slower than mine. However, I actually learned to abstain for longer than I had previously been comfortable with, and the result is that the sex with my wife improved.


I hear what you are saying, but the problem I see with your process is that it sets the woman's preferred pace and timing as the standard; the man needs to adjust his need to hers. From a philosophical perspective, this violates the concept of marriage as a partnership. A marriage should be a situation where the wants and needs of both should be equally important. What you describe above is not that.

From a practical perspective, making that accommodation improves nothing. Generally, being flexible on sex just results in additional depriortization of sex. The sex just dries up and you have the same discussion, except with a lower baseline. Why in the hell would I want to act like less sex is okay when it isn't?

I had a GF who aimed for a routine of plan a date, have a nice outing, hang out, then she'd call it a night. I was expected to always be the stand up traditional guy - supportive, provider, etc. But for her, it was all optional; she said her body is worth more than anything a guy could offer, so it was okay to be like she was. And, tying relationship status to the sex life was akin to abuse. I basically told her "good luck with that"; she adjusted her position in fairly short order. But can you imagine if I just tried to wait it out? BTW this one still drops serious hints that she's changed and wants another shot; ummm, no thank you.

Another one had a lot on her plate and the sex life took a dive. Now she was a busy person and we had been together for a year, so I of course gave her a lot of slack and patience. But one morning she blew me off again so I start packing up to go home. No complaining or anything like that, but if she has better things to do then so do I. Of course now she notices and says something and I honestly tell her that I can tell she's not into it so I'm getting on with my day. Then she goes on about being stressed and I suggest that maybe she might need to learn how to manage that better (not just about sex, it was starting to be an overall issue for her). Her response included an understanding that people don't break up for a lack of sex. I told her that people do indeed break up for that reason. Again, can you imagine if I just let it slide and didn't confront the issue?

Lastly (and I see this a lot here) you are oversimplifying this. It's either that I find a lady with a high drive to accommodate me, or I just need to wait on her, be patient, and accept what comes. Black or white - nothing in between. But real life is different. There are ladies who love their husbands and enthusiastically want to provide a good experience even if it requires effort and whatever activity is not their preference. And there are ladies who at least recognize a good situation and know that a relationship without sex generally doesn't work out.

And above all, I don't need a partner to be happy. While I'd like one, I'm not going to just endure to have one. So I have no problem cooling down a relationship or just flat-out saying "hey, it seems like you're not into it. Is it something fixable, or perhaps we need to go our separate ways?"


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

I suppose everyone has to find their own way of dealing with the powerful male sex drive...and one's mileage may vary with respect to finding a woman willing to negotiate or receptive to a man's needs.

But to try to dig a little deeper into what I'm saying---I think that a lot of men fall into a trap with the availability of porn these days that makes men feel like their virility is literally unstoppable and that they should be entitled to have sex and masturbate multiple times a week and that they can't run out of sexual energy. It's this extreme trap that I'm referring to---perhaps it never took hold for you personally, but it certainly had for me briefly (but I DID fix this during my previous marriage), and it definitely took hold for the husbands in 2 marriages close to me. It's no wonder to me that e.d. is a problem for a lot of men when they are sapping their energy like this on a regular basis and why they don't find their own spouses arousing anymore. THAT's what I'm talking about. Men who behave like that probably contribute to their wife wanting LESS sex. If you're not unhealthy in this regard, and you're not being demanding, impatient or petulant with your woman, AND they are receptive to your sexual appetite...that's awesome. That's a tough thing to achieve...one, you have to be a disciplined guy that doesn't ever get obsessed with porn, and two, you have to have a woman who doesn't get sick of sex.

What I've personally found from my experience in my first marriage is that learning to wait for her was actually very good for me too. Erections lasted longer and orgasms were bigger for me, and I think she felt better because I wasn't pushing her or making her feel bad about not being there for me, instead I'd just be very patient and gentle and try to initiate in a kinder, more romantic way.

I suddenly remembered I'm aware of a third marriage where the man was being petulant and demanding and ruined it. Two of those three marriages the man was accused of rape at one point because, clearly negotiation broke down and the man was unwilling to wait.

So I guess at the end I've just developed this ability to abstain and wait. I can go weeks without masturbating or looking at porn. Personally I see this as a gift I can give my next partner, because I will be able to be patient, but more importantly, all my energy will be saved for when she actually is ready for me.

In fact, one interesting side effect of my newfound ability to abstain is that, for the last month or so thinking about this woman I've been discussing in this thread is all I've needed for myself...I haven't looked at porn since this relationship became a possibility---which tells me I've reconnected my feelings of arousal with having an emotional connection to a woman rather than watching a bunch of actors having fake sex with each other. (well, not fake as in not functional, but fake as in, exaggerated expressions and vocalizations).


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

DTO said:


> Generally, being flexible on sex just results in additional depriortization of sex. T


I'd say it's better to be flexible rather than set a time. It'd make it feel like a chore, rather than something out of pure pleasure and excitement.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lovelygirl said:


> I'd say it's better to be flexible rather than set a time. It'd make it feel like a chore, rather than something out of pure pleasure and excitement.


I was referring to being flexible not just with timing of sex, but the overall frequency of it and what acts are done. The gentleman I was discussing this with said easing up on his requests for a bit was an overall positive. That has not been my experience. Usually it just goes from a few times a week, to once a week, to once every few weeks, and so on - setting a new normal in her eyes at each step.

While ideally sex is spontaneous and exciting, the real world does not work that way. You might have to be intentional about sex to stay connected. If you know sex is important and I'm not content, yet you keep putting it off, before long I'll be as apathetic about the things you value. Because I'm good at doing the little things that make my partner feel loved, you'll notice a real change in the dynamic. And now you're hurt and maybe resentful, because now you're feeling ignored. Isn't it better to maintain and be proactive rather than have to fix things down the road?

As far as making sex feel like a chore, that is a mindset thing - nothing more. You can think "I have better things to do, so let's get this done" or you can think "I have a good guy who works hard to provide that which is meaningful to me, so I'm going to give back lovingly and plentifully"; it's 100% up to you. Now, if you can continue to take and still look at giving back as a chore, that's where I'm going to tell you we need to discuss whether we have a future.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

onceler1 said:


> I suppose everyone has to find their own way of dealing with the powerful male sex drive...and one's mileage may vary with respect to finding a woman willing to negotiate or receptive to a man's needs.
> 
> But to try to dig a little deeper into what I'm saying---I think that a lot of men fall into a trap with the availability of porn these days that makes men feel like their virility is literally unstoppable and that they should be entitled to have sex and masturbate multiple times a week and that they can't run out of sexual energy. It's this extreme trap that I'm referring to---perhaps it never took hold for you personally, but it certainly had for me briefly (but I DID fix this during my previous marriage), and it definitely took hold for the husbands in 2 marriages close to me. It's no wonder to me that e.d. is a problem for a lot of men when they are sapping their energy like this on a regular basis and why they don't find their own spouses arousing anymore. THAT's what I'm talking about. Men who behave like that probably contribute to their wife wanting LESS sex. If you're not unhealthy in this regard, and you're not being demanding, impatient or petulant with your woman, AND they are receptive to your sexual appetite...that's awesome. That's a tough thing to achieve...one, you have to be a disciplined guy that doesn't ever get obsessed with porn, and two, you have to have a woman who doesn't get sick of sex.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what you mean about running out of sexual energy, so I guess it doesn't apply to me. I've never been one to just keep compulsively pounding away on myself or someone else. I've had instances where occasionally I'm horny a few days in a row or even twice in the same day, but those are uncommon and generally follow a period of inactivity - not the same thing as you discuss.

One thing to consider is that our experiences may be different because we are all individuals. Your innate sex drive simply might be lower than mine, which is why you abstaining from sex for weeks is not a big deal. But for me, not having any release for a few weeks (especially when younger) with your attractive partner nearby was distinctly unpleasant - you are aware that guys have biological triggers that want you to have sex, right?

Another thing (possibly more important) is relationship dynamics. I've had relationships where we didn't have a ton of face time. Either our work schedules didn't really line up, or family needs came first, etc. In that type of situation of course expecting regular sex is unreasonable - I'd go two weeks or a month even without sweating it. 

But I'm thinking of situations where you see each other most days or every day (married, GF lives close by, GF lives with me). My experience is that the ladies expected me to have their wants and needs as a priority. And that's fine by me; if you're my partner I feel it's very appropriate to expect me to place a high priority on your wants and needs and I address them accordingly. But at the same time, they expected me to not worry about my own needs.

That's where I take exception. I'm happy to do the heavy lifting and take the lead in the relationship, setting an example for how the relationship can be. But having a partner that expects me to be consistently on point while expecting much less of herself is simply not going to happen. This problem has a selfish woman at the core.

So, if I had a relationship where my partner was pretty laid back and not demanding it would be relatively easy to be gone a lot, do my thing, and reconnect every so often. But a partner who expects regular attention to her needs has to be ready to give back in kind. To do otherwise is disrespectful, doesn't promote mutuality, and violates the norm of reciprocation.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

DTO said:


> That has not been my experience. Usually it just goes from a few times a week, to once a week, to once every few weeks, and so on - setting a new normal in her eyes at each step.


As far as the frequency goes, abstaining from sex for weeks/months(unless there are other medical conditions), wouldn't be normal for a healthy (relatively) young couple. But sex-drives should be taken into account as well. If both are LD, then going sexless for several weeks, wouldn't be a problem. If there is a mismatch between an LD and an HD person, the this would be a real incompatibility issue.



DTO said:


> While ideally sex is spontaneous and exciting, the real world does not work that way. You might have to be intentional about sex to stay connected.
> If you know sex is important and I'm not content, yet you keep putting it off, before long I'll be as apathetic about the things you value. Because I'm good at doing the little things that make my partner feel loved, you'll notice a real change in the dynamic.


I do agree with you that regular sex to meet your and SO's needs is very important but when I used the term "chore" I was referring to the expectation to have sex EVERY SINGLE night...meaning..once you lie down in bed you know you *have to *have sex. This is the _chore_ I'm talking about. 
It doesn't give me the chance to "miss" sex or even initiate it. How do I "miss" it if I know it's there anyway...every single night..?
Just like OP said, when he started having it less often - he had better orgasms. So, I think there needs to be a balance between_ quality_ and _quantity_ of the sex-life you have with your partner. But this also comes down to the sex-drive match that I referred to above.



DTO said:


> As far as making sex feel like a chore, that is a mindset thing - nothing more. You can think "I have better things to do, so let's get this done" or you can think "I have a good guy who works hard to provide that which is meaningful to me, so I'm going to give back lovingly and plentifully";


That depends if I'm having a good guy who has proven in many ways he's into me. 
But, If we're talking about a guy who leans on the selfish side, doesn't do much at home to help and still expects me to be a superwoman with kids, with home and in bed...and still wants sex every-night, then no thank you! 
If we're talking about the guy you're referring to as a good provider (not just monetary-wise but also_ emotionally_-wise) then I'd be happy to fulfill his sexual desires (and more) on frequent basis, several times a week - although not every-single night for the fear of turning sex into a _chore. _I could do it 3-4 times a week or even 5 times ...but 7/7 times ...would be over the top.



DTO said:


> But I'm thinking of situations where you see each other most days or every day (married, GF lives close by, GF lives with me). My experience is that the ladies expected me to have their wants and needs as a priority. And that's fine by me; if you're my partner I feel it's very appropriate to expect me to place a high priority on your wants and needs and I address them accordingly. But at the same time, they expected me to not worry about my own needs.


Yeah, I can see the double standard here. I agree with you that the needs and priorities should be met equally for both partners and should be considered with the same value from both partners for each other.



DTO said:


> Your innate sex drive simply might be lower than mine, which is why you abstaining from sex for weeks is not a big deal. But for me, not having any release for a few weeks (especially when younger) with your attractive partner nearby was distinctly unpleasant


Yeah, it could be that OP's sex drive could be different from yours and he's able to be sexless even for a few weeks. 
In this case, if his older lady also has the same frequency then they'd be ideal for each other.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Update: 10 days til I go visit her. It wasn't certain if she was going to be in town at first but I quietly made plans to visit and said "I'd be in town" even though it was really just for her haha. But today she started talking to me and she's _making certain_ she gets to see me on that date. Plus she randomly went into my fb profile and left a heart on one of my pics. And she spoke with me at length about how great it has been becoming closer friends over the last couple months particularly after my letter to her. I feel like its nearly 95% certain now we're gonna be something together... well I'm very excited.

I keep asking my 8 ball fortune app if she's gonna kiss me when I see her and it keeps saying yes. haha why not sex? well tthat'd be kinda fast for me on the FIRST meeting of someone lol maybe 2nd or 3rd tho....hehe...

I just feel bad for my parents for if I end up telling them I'm seeing someone 17 years older than me. haha, I'm gonna try to make them guess I became gay first. I'm evil LOL. "You want me to be happy...right?" "oh god, son...are you gay? we totally accept you an dlove you you know that you can tell us" LOL


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Wow...she (the older woman discussed in this thread) made her intentions explicit this evening. She is 100% serious about exploring a relationship with me. How cool is that? I'm excited now hehe.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Congrats onceler1!!! I hope things really do work out for you!


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Visited her this weekend. Best time I've ever had with a woman in my life hands down. At the end of the date we talked for an additional hour or so before I actually left and were being very open and real about the newness of everything including our age difference but I kissed her. 3x. It was awesome. Didn't feel like kissing my mom or anything lmao. Cause my mom is in her 80s. She feels 100% like my equal and peer. And seemingly becoming an amazing friend and now very likely lover.

Probably most interesting weekend of my entire life so far. Can't wait to see her again. 😍🥰


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My girlfriend is now 21 and I'm 35, 14 years apart. Currently we are now three years together, and I'm considering more... permanent arrangements. I'm dragging my heels due to already experience two divorces in my life; my parents, and with my ex-wife. But my girlfriend now well, it's nothing like any relationship I've ever been in before.

I know your thread is about a younger man and older woman, but there exists a universal truth when it comes to age gap relationships, regardless of the gender/ages involved: 

*Age just disappears. *

It becomes a meaningless number. There are far more important aspects to a relationship, and if you guys have all the other pieces of the puzzle matching, you'll realise age itself was never part of the puzzle to begin with. Three years ago I asked a similar question on this forum to what you're asking now, and I'm glad I give it a shot. Good luck!


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> My girlfriend is now 21 and I'm 35, 14 years apart. Currently we are now three years together, and I'm considering more... permanent arrangements. I'm dragging my heels due to already experience two divorces in my life; my parents, and with my ex-wife. But my girlfriend now well, it's nothing like any relationship I've ever been in before.
> 
> I know your thread is about a younger man and older woman, but there exists a universal truth when it comes to age gap relationships, regardless of the gender/ages involved:
> 
> ...


What a nice post, thanks!

Not only does it disappear, but in terms of just hard numbers, the age gap actually continuously becomes a smaller percentage of each of your ages as you get older.

I'm still feelin' pretty good about my situation. I visited her one more time in a non-date type of scenario prior to my flight home---which wasn't as romantic, but it still was nice and got another hug and kiss though she seemed slightly concerned her son would see, haha. She may be being a little cautious---which I totally respect. Like, not leaping into super serious things with me. That's good. I'm in no rush. Still seems like the warmth/temperature of things are quite high since then talking to her online.

Man... I almost had an opportunity to go spend time at a girl's party this evening, she's 24 which is 13 years younger than me haha. She's really cute but I don't know anything about her. However, I decided not to go. I don't like parties.

And then on top of that another woman who is about 16 years older than me has become a friend and now wants to get lunch sometime. Maybe i've found my niche. haha


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

onceler1 said:


> What a nice post, thanks!
> 
> Not only does it disappear, but in terms of just hard numbers, the age gap actually continuously becomes a smaller percentage of each of your ages as you get older.
> 
> ...


Yes exactly!

In my relationship all the pieces just fit, many times an age difference could prove to contribute incompatibility but it's not the age in question. For example; I was already past my partying age and my girlfriend was also having much different aspirations compared to many women her age, while someone may wish to party on all the way through life. Our hobbies, interests, simply aligned, our values, our beliefs, they breached all other barriers. 

All these aspects, much more important than a meaningless number. To be honest I have to be reminded my girlfriend is actually younger than me, several times she's proven more mature


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

onceler1 said:


> Not only does it disappear, but in terms of just hard numbers, the age gap actually continuously becomes a smaller percentage of each of your ages as you get older.


? An almost 20 year age gap isn't going to "disappear" or seem smaller as your age. When one is 60 and the other 80, you're going to notice it. Age gaps are fine, but don't pretend they become less noticeable as time goes on and that you won't notice it on the back end.


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## Slowpoke (Sep 7, 2018)

Is it what you really want, my wife is 13 years older than me. We've together for over 40+ years. It took work and patience as there are alway bumps in a relationship. Our friends said it would not work out due to the age difference but we did not listen to them.We wanted each other and put in the work to keep it fun and enjoyable. I cannot imagine life without her. I truly believe that what you get out of life, or a relationship is what you put into it. Funny thing is my wife was quite limited sexually when we first met, but that has changed significantly for the better and her journey was stimulating, exciting, and very fulfilling. always keep an open mind and open communications between yourselves, be as good a listener as you are a talker. No subject should be off limits and trust each other to keep it honest and respectful. What you will have is what you make it. Its up to you both how it will turn out.Good Luck 😊


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Things are still looking good for me and the woman I like. Going to be in her town for almost the whole month of august so I should be able to see her a bunch. We keep talking a lot, and it keeps going in a warmer direction. And I learned a couple of interesting things about her. Apparently she once had a bf who was only 4 years older than me, and then last year she very briefly dated a guy 6 years YOUNGER than me. So what I'm learning is, she's already into younger guys and I'm realizing I'm into older women. So just throw that into the mix of us having a billion things in common, can talk for hours for many evenings on end about everything under the sun, share values, interests and lifestyle, both are attracted to each other, and age just means absolutely nothing here.

I think she's intentionally trying to keep a bit of a lid on revealing her full feelings for me right away, because she's been hurt bad by narcissists in the past including her ex husband and the one younger ex bf. I believe she's been trying to feel out whether I might be one, and so far as I can tell I'm passing these tests with flying colors cause it just keeps getting warmer.

I admit I feel slightly paranoid as a victim of narcissistic abuse, maybe she will exhibit some of those tendencies but I haven't sensed anything off yet at all. She hasn't done any of the red flags that I've been researching about lol.

Bottom line: very excited to see her again...


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Have you guys kissed yet?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> Have you guys kissed yet?


See post #116.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Yes kissed and she was flirting with me about more of that when I visit her again hehehe. Was joking about covid and how she survived my first visit and was prepared for more inoculation LOL.

I haven't said this to her yet of course, but I have never wanted a woman this badly in my entire life. I have developed very, very strong feelings for her. I sense that it may be mutual but we're both being cautious (particularly her. if she was less wise, I'd probably be much more in peril of moving too quickly. So I'm really grateful she's older and more cautious, it will help the relationship grow at a reasonable pace).


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Speaking from my point of view.....big age difference is not good. I married someone that was 14 years my senior. Later in the relationship we were at different cycles in our life. I wanted a happy family and he was/is a scum dog.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Thought I'd update this thread for anyone who was finding it interesting or entertaining hehe. So I had been in another state this past year and, due to a lot of factors including the woman 17 years older than me that I've been pursuing, I decided to move back to my home state and take my job with me. Obviously I didn't tell her I moved FOR her, and she actually is only one factor---I'm very happy I came back regardless of how things turn out.

Well, we just had a date this past weekend and it was awesome. We watched a movie, and talked and laughed for hours and I put my arm around her, gave her a backrub and also we kissed a bunch. So yeah, this appears to be happening for real. <3 I feel that I can be completely myself around her and she feels the same way. It's awesome. I've never felt like I had a true emotional connection with a woman and I earnestly feel that this is developing, for real, this time.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I edited this out, as it was an old thread.


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