# Wifes EA, Possible PA, How to Move Forward



## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi All

A bit of background...........

Married for a year after 9 years going out, both about 40.
She has a 12 yo son who I have helped to raise as my own.

Wife has spending issues, always spending what she earns and got herself into debt on top of this. Finally got out of debt this year and she received a small inheritance too which we were going to save, but yes she spent that too.

After trying and trying to get through this, the latest spending spree has taken it's toll on me mentally and I have developed a resentment towards her. 

She is a very affectionate person and depends very much on feeling loved and wanted. My resentment towards her after spending our little nest egg meant that I was acting stand-offish and I became more focused on my work in defiance I guess (to try to earn the money back actually) and I spent less effort on her because I felt the whole thing was taking my energy and we needed the money. I was also quite unsympathetic towards her at times if I'm honest and as a side issue (not justifying what she's done) I can see why she thought I didn't care much. Unfortunately she doesn't understand the stressful effect her spending was having on me especially when I was struggling to make ends meet.

She took this as rejection and eventually started an EA with a friend of a friend who chatted her up one night. Liking the attention that she now claims she wasn't getting from me (which is true), they carried on texting for 2 months until I became suspicious, checked phone usage and confronted her.

I've not seen the messages because they were deleted and I have recovered messages from the phone but the ones in question were not on there any more.

Now, she swears blind (yes as they all do) that this never went physical and that she was only after attention because I made her feel rejected.

My heart believes her because she has always been so against anything like this and she tells me like 10 times a day every day that she loves me, and did so even when they were texting each other.

.......... but my head has convinced me to accept that it went physical and that is the basis that I am deciding our future upon. This may be harsh because I have no proof and it would be so unlike her to something like that but we all say that about our other half's, but I have to decide on something.


She is truly devastated and she says that although she has done wrong our marriage should be strong enough to survive some attention seeking text messages that took place when we were going through a rocky patch. It that's all it was then she's probably right.

She is convinced that I don't love her anymore and she says she needed to feel wanted. I actually accept this to be true after knowing her all this time, but it does not justify what she did / allegedly did.

Even with the spending issues I would have stood by her forever. We get on so well and I honestly cannot imagine not waking up with her every day and not being their for my step son who will be destroyed by this if we break up.

I am left with the decision of what to do. I know it has to be down to me but I wanted to put this out there to try and get some clarity.

We were talking about trying for a child of our own but our ages (especially hers) means time is running out and even if i do forgive her I think the time to heal us may mean it's too late if we waited.

She is the only person I have ever really loved. In spite her issues she has such a wonderful funny personality and I will miss her tremendously and don't know if I will ever love anyone again, but I'm not sure I can get past the betrayal if this did go physical.

What a mess.................


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

BaT said:


> She is the only person I have ever really loved. In spite her issues she has such a wonderful funny personality and I will miss her tremendously and don't know if I will ever love anyone again, but I'm not sure I can get past the betrayal if this did go physical.
> 
> What a mess.................


I understand that money is tight but you might want to consider a polygraph.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If you have a gut feeling that it went physical, it probably did.

Check the phone records. Some companies can provide you with dates, times, and the address sent to, for texts.

Match up the times when she was out on an errand or some unexplained absence. If the texting stopped for and hour or two then started back they were most likely together.


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

Yes I have considered a polygraph, I may have to look into it more.
Any recommendations for any companies that do this in the UK?

My gut feeling that this went physical is likely to be based partly on my suspicious nature. It serves me well at times but also makes me see things that aren't necessarily there. Of course I have plenty to be suspicious about now!

Regarding phone records there were never any calls, only text messages. All text messages happened during working hours and we speak a few times a day and she was always there, and always home on time too.

The most likely time they could have been together would have been at the weekend after she went out with friends. Easily a possibility in theory.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

B&T the one thing you're going to learn that the TDSC60 said, is that your gut is probably right. More often than not, your gut is dead on.

It sucks. Trust me...I know.

You will learn the horrible think known as trickle truth. Waywards do this cuz they think in their idiotic way that they're sparing the betrayed by not telling everything. And they couldn't be more wrong.

Trickle truth will do nothing except set you back to the 1 count and you get to begin again. 

If she knows that the physical part is a deal breaker for you, then she is going to do everything that she can to conceal it from you. It's a tough situation.

My advice is for you to speak to an attorney and get divorce paperwork.

In ANY negotiations...whether its business or your personal life, the one willing to walk away wins. Period.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Now that I just read your second post...if there was any chance that they were together in person, you can pretty much guarantee that it went physical to some degree.

We're not talking about high school kids, man. We're talking about adults. They don't just chat. And they don't just kiss - cuz she'll try to tell you that's all they did when she first admits to sh-t.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Do you know the OM? Know where he lives? Is he married? 

What did the friend who introduced them have to say about all of this? Was s/he an enabler of this alleged EA romance?


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

Nobody introduced them as such, there are a group of people that have been socializing for years and she knows a few of them quite well so they just got chatting.

Nobody else knows apparently, just the 2 of them and me. But apparently there's 'nothing to know' as they only texted for company............. and no i don't buy that.

I know who he is and could probably find out his address. He has a partner.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

He has a partner? Well, there you go!

Get in touch with HER (not him) and tell her what you discovered. What she said. What you think. 

Ask her what she knows about this. She may be able to get a hold of the msgs. 

Do not tell your wife you're doing this.


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Now that I just read your second post...if there was any chance that they were together in person, you can pretty much guarantee that it went physical to some degree.


Thanks for the reply.

Can you really say with so much confidence that this went physical though?

I'm not being naive but I need to keep an open mind either way.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Also, have a heart-to-heart with your wife. 

Tell her you love her and can't imagine a life without her. But you will never live with a person who thinks you're a chump that can easily be deceived. Tell her you are capable of putting your ego aside and have the compassion and humility to forgive from her what you would never forgive from anyone else. 

But tell her also, that ONE lie about all of this and you will never forget and may never forgive. Tell her she has to come clean with all the details a husband is entitled to know about his wife. She needs to do it now.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

BaT said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Can you really say with so much confidence that this went physical though?
> 
> I'm not being naive but I need to keep an open mind either way.


I can only say this, man...when two adults get together AFTER they've texted and said things, that it is bound to go that way. I would say 99% of the threads in this section prove such.

A little insight to my dealings with what began a FIVE year long physical affair that my wife had. She met the guy at a party that mutual friends had. I was a pilot so I was always gone away from home. She thought he was nice. They flirted a TON that night. They exchanged numbers the next morning as it was a sleep over. Yeah...I know - grown f'ng adults, right!?

They texted and talked on the phone for a couple weeks until I was on a trip and she got the balls to invite him over to "chat". Well, they ended up in my basement f'ng like bunnies for an hour.

Why?

Cuz they're adults and not children.

This sh-t escalates fast. Do NOT doubt that.


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> I can only say this, man...when two adults get together AFTER they've texted and said things, that it is bound to go that way. I would say 99% of the threads in this section prove such.
> 
> A little insight to my dealings with what began a FIVE year long physical affair that my wife had. She met the guy at a party that mutual friends had. I was a pilot so I was always gone away from home. She thought he was nice. They flirted a TON that night. They exchanged numbers the next morning as it was a sleep over. Yeah...I know - grown f'ng adults, right!?
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear that, people can be shallow thats for sure.

Question...................

Is an EA / a few months worth of flirty texting enough to end a relationship for?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

My XW swore up and down that nothing was going on, what kind of a person did I think she was...etc. Then I hit her with proof and she really flipped out and told me it was my fault.

No offense, but a spouse swearing it didn't happen, doesn't make it so. Is she one who typically deletes all her messages? If not, then she was deliberately trying to hide something from you and being untrustworthy in the process. If this is the case and they ever got together... then it likely went physical.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

BaT said:


> Sorry to hear that, people can be shallow thats for sure.
> 
> Question...................
> 
> Is an EA / a few months worth of flirty texting enough to end a relationship for?


Well, man...that's up to you. I mean, I've seen people here go f'ng bonkers over that and divorce immediately. Then there's a few like me who are reconciling after long term affairs that were physical.

It's all in what you personally call your deal breaker, man. No one can tell you what that is. That's your bag to carry. And don't let anyone on this board try to sway you otherwise.

Do what YOU will.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OK. Here is what I recommend.

Financial counselling for your wife.
Marriage counselling for your as a couple.

It's possible it when physical. But guess what? It IS possible to get through something like this.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Why would a grown adult man be satisfied with a few months of flirty texting? Lets be serious here. Your wife is in damage control. A polygraph is certainly in order. In addition, the spending issue shows she is immature and compulsive which would suggest it is doubtful that it was just flirty messages for months. If the roles were reversed would your wife be so accepting and forgiving as you?

Your wife has been disrespecting you on multiple levels. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jeremy Kyle show does lie detectors. Be a guest - Jeremy Kyle - ITV


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Why did it take y'all so long to get married? You knew her for 7 - 8 years before marriage. Were there issues before marriage or was it just a long-term friendship that turned romantic?


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> OK. Here is what I recommend.
> 
> Financial counselling for your wife.
> Marriage counselling for your as a couple.
> ...


Thanks for this, I want to hear both sides.

Financial counselling for your wife.
Already booked.

Marriage counselling for your as a couple.
Agree, if I decide to give it a go.

Thanks


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Why did it take y'all so long to get married? You knew her for 7 - 8 years before marriage. Were there issues before marriage or was it just a long-term friendship that turned romantic?


Good question.

I was trying to get her to save for the wedding, which she never would even though it what she wanted more than anything. I didn't want to go into debt.

She definitely has immaturity issues. She had a rough childhood with her mum passing away when she was 13 and her Dad was a nasty piece of work (nothing physical / abusive just mental). I'm sure it's all related to her spending, but possibly and easy excuse after all this time.

Nothing should explain cheating though EA or PA unless she is ready to leave the relationship which she isn't because on reflection she is mortified by how this has turned out.


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## Myka (Apr 11, 2013)

I think you're being trickle truthed. You'll seriously want to consider a poly. Before you go that far take a month to decide if you want to keep her. Don't allow yourself to make a decision any earlier. Tell your wife you love her but you can't make sense of her story which makes you believe you're still being lied to. Then tell her you can't agree to anything until you know the full story. Have her write out a complete timeline of the affair and every detail of it. Use the timeline to find out more. You can also use the timeline for the poly. Keep in mind a poly is not 100%.


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## Myka (Apr 11, 2013)

How close does the other man live to you?


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

he lives about 4 miles away.

She has already agreed to a poly and in fact it was her idea, maybe not completely serious. I said that if she failed I would give her family and his family copies of it which would expose him to his partner and she said fine.

By the way I haven't exposed this to anyone else because there is an innocent party who would be very deeply hurt if this became known. That doesn't mean I won't if needed though.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

BaT 
The OM's wife has a right to know what her husband is up to. Would you be happy if you were still in the dark and she knew about the EA (possible PA) with your wife but remained silent? 

You can't be serious that you would rather be pleasantly oblivious to your wife's behavior with another man?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

She _agreed_ to a poly. Wait til the day of.

Dude lives 4 miles from you and you think they never met in person? (to be physical)

Brother...I'm trying not to be a jerk here. I mean, around TAM I am like the "Reconciliation Guy". No one tries harder on reconciliation than I, I think at times - maybe even to a fault.

You are being trickled, man. No f'ng doubt.


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> BaT
> 
> You can't be serious that you would rather be pleasantly oblivious to your wife's behavior with another man?


No of course not and I've not say that. :scratchhead:

I agree though that his partner does have the right to know but I've been more focused on getting my head straight.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> She _agreed_ to a poly. Wait til the day of.
> 
> Dude lives 4 miles from you and you think they never met in person? (to be physical)
> 
> ...


SD, in Britain, 4 miles can be a big deal.


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> She _agreed_ to a poly. Wait til the day of.


Yeah that's what I was thinking!

Trickle truth, $h!t there's even a name for it! Text book stuff eh.

I was very crafty in getting the truth so far, albeit 'trickled'.
I'll think of what needs to be done next.

A poly date perhaps......


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

BaT said:


> ..By the way I haven't exposed this to anyone else because there is an innocent party who would be very deeply hurt if this became known. That doesn't mean I won't if needed though.


My bad, BaT. I took this post to mean that you would not expose the OM b/c you didn't want to hurt his wife. 




BaT said:


> No of course not and I've not say that.


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> SD, in Britain, 4 miles can be a big deal.


Thing is, is that even though she doesn't know it she activated that tracking on her phone. Call me a snoop, but I know where she's been at the time they were texting.

Obviously I can't be 100% sure but it has indicated that they have not met other than after drinks on a saturday night.

I think even if they haven't gone physical, would they have done if not caught?


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> My bad, BaT. I took this post to mean that you would not expose the OM b/c you didn't want to hurt his wife.


Ah ok i see, no worries 

Thanks


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

BaT said:


> Thing is, is that even though she doesn't know it she activated that tracking on her phone. Call me a snoop, but I know where she's been at the time they were texting.
> 
> Obviously I can't be 100% sure but it has indicated that they have not met other than after drinks on a saturday night.
> 
> I think even if they haven't gone physical, would they have done if not caught?


In the immortal words of my wife, "If you hadn't caught me I would probably have never stopped on my own."

Yeah, when it comes to affair sh-t, they ain't thinking about you or any consequence.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

BaT said:


> ...I think even if they haven't gone physical, would they have done if not caught?


mebeso, mebeso, that would be a likely - and worst case - scenario but not necessarily so. What does your gut tell you?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't think you can tell yet what your dealbreaker is. There are people who know they won't accept an EA and get divorced. There are others who immediately go to work on a reconciliation, but then show up here later in great pain and more and more convinced that they can't stay married. There are still others who manage to reconcile, either with an EA or a PA.

I think you have to give this some time. It sounds like a PA would change your calculus, so you should do what you can to discover the true extent of her A. And yes, there are terms for it, like trickle truth, because infidelity is like any behavior, i.e., there are common patterns.

I would tell her that you aren't sure how you feel yet. This is the truth, isn't it? I would emphasize that any decision you make depends critically on getting the truth from her. I would follow the advice to, on your own, contact the OM's partner about this and expose and share any info. The advice for counseling is always good, as well, in my opinion.

I have to say that I don't agree that the feeling that you 'don't love her anymore' is an acceptable reason for an affair. I hope that you don't buy into this.


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> mebeso, mebeso, that would be a likely - and worst case - scenario but not necessarily so. What does your gut tell you?


Well, my gut feeling / investigations actually tell me that they had stopped a few days before the confrontation.

Phone records back up her claims that they stopped.

Gut feeling? 60/40, 40% that it went physical. But that's enough and the texting alone is enough for me take away the benefit of the doubt.


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## BaT (Jun 16, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I don't think you can tell yet what your dealbreaker is. There are people who know they won't accept an EA and get divorced. There are others who immediately go to work on a reconciliation, but then show up here later in great pain and more and more convinced that they can't stay married. There are still others who manage to reconcile, either with an EA or a PA.
> 
> I think you have to give this some time. It sounds like a PA would change your calculus, so you should do what you can to discover the true extent of her A. And yes, there are terms for it, like trickle truth, because infidelity is like any behavior, i.e., there are common patterns.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

It's late here in the UK so I need sleep but I will reply more fully tomorrow.

_I have to say that I don't agree that the feeling that you 'don't love her anymore' is an acceptable reason for an affair. I hope that you don't buy into this._

No, i see this has trying to put some of the blame on me.

I take responsibility for some parts that were not right in our relationship, but in no way should that have been a green light to betray me.

This is good counselling guys, thank you all.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

BaT, when is the poly scheduled?

How was she reacting to your questions on DDay? How is she behaving after your confrontation?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

BaT said:


> Obviously I can't be 100% sure but it has indicated that they have not met other than after drinks on a saturday night.


Boom. There it is. That's your smoking gun.

Don't underestimate how much a cheater will lie and the extent they will go to to give you their version of "the truth".


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> In the immortal words of my wife, "If you hadn't caught me I would probably have never stopped on my own."
> 
> Yeah, when it comes to affair sh-t, they ain't thinking about you or any consequence.


sorry to thread jack, but Dig, how did you eventually catch your wife ?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

barbados said:


> sorry to thread jack, but Dig, how did you eventually catch your wife ?


Her laptop was open but I'll let him tell you.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Bat,

Schedule the poly. I'm willing to bet that she tells you more of what happened when the poly test is a few days away, up to right when you'er about to leave for her to take it.

They've met, so it went physical, I'll guarantee that.

If she said they:

Hugged - She kissed him.
Kissed once - They made out like prom dates.
Groped - They gave hand jobs.
Hand Jobs - They have intercourse.

And so on.

There's a chance that she's told you everything that happened, but it's very doubtful that she has. Be prepared for more bad news. How much more is the question...


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

barbados said:


> sorry to thread jack, but Dig, how did you eventually catch your wife ?


She had a long meeting one day. Didn't get home til 9pm. Before I went up to bed, I realized I hadn't checked my email and was waiting on a reply from someone. I had already shut down my laptop and hers was open and just in sleep mode. We both use gmail, so I had to open hers to log out. Something told me to scroll down and that's when I found the hotel receipt dated for that very day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If she has a smart phone you can probably retrieve her messages.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Bat,
> 
> Schedule the poly. I'm willing to bet that she tells you more of what happened when the poly test is a few days away, up to right when you'er about to leave for her to take it.
> 
> ...


But not always. Sometimes what the cheater tells their spouse is the truth. And if they say: "We never had intercourse" that might actually be the truth.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Schedule the poly, but don't tell her in advance. Just tell her you like the idea of a poly. That way it is on her mind if she wants to tell you and she will not know exactly when it will be.

Don't be to shocked if you get a parking lot confession.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Matt brings up a valid point. She might be telling you the truth now and possibly it wasn't physical. 

The problem I would have is that her behavior has been dishonest and you can't be sure. Not that polys are 100% but it will up the pressure to be truthful. I also struggle trying to think that a man flirting sexually for a period of time would not try to seal the deal. But, everyone is different.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

workindad said:


> Matt brings up a valid point. She might be telling you the truth now and possibly it wasn't physical.
> 
> The problem I would have is that her behavior has been dishonest and you can't be sure. Not that polys are 100% but it will up the pressure to be truthful. I also struggle trying to think that a man flirting sexually for a period of time would not try to seal the deal. But, everyone is different.


I was thinking of my own confession to my wife. And I got the impression that as the OW was already not one of her most favourite people in the world, that had it gone to PIV sex that I would have been toast.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

workindad said:


> Matt brings up a valid point. She might be telling you the truth now and possibly it wasn't physical.
> 
> The problem I would have is that her behavior has been dishonest and you can't be sure. Not that polys are 100% but it will up the pressure to be truthful. I also struggle trying to think that a man flirting sexually for a period of time would not try to seal the deal. But, everyone is different.


They may be, but I am yet to see evidence on this board.

That isn't to say every situation like this out there means that things have gone physical, but I have a theory that people only end up on here when they *know* something is *very* wrong, but can't prove it without outside help and support.


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