# Is she telling the truth?



## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

I have been married for a long time (17 years). We have 2 kids. Recently I suspected my wife of being unfaithful. The suspicion came from my gut feeling: the distance between us, her working late, the lack of interest in sex, etc. So I checked her cell phone record, and what I found shocked me. She has been calling this man from her workplace multiple times per day for as long as the cell phone record has been kept. Now I know she works with this guy and is a friend of him and I can understand the needs to talk to each other occasionally about work. But this is clearly excessive. 

I confronted her. I did not bring up the cell phone record. I wanted to give her a chance to tell me the truth. She denied any wrong-doing and blamed me for making her unhappy with the marriage. I initially believed her and even apologized to her. But the more I thought about it and analyzed the call record, the more I became suspicious. I was devastated, but also determined to find the truth. Based on the cell phone record, I suspect that there is a specific day of the week when they meet. So I used a GPS device to track her car's location on that day that week. And sure enough, GPS showed that she went to a hotel for a couple of hours in the middle of the day.

I confronted her again. In the face of this evidence, she admitted to having an emotional affair, but refused to to discuss details. In the subsequent days, little by little, she told me more. It's been a few weeks now, she still maintains that it was only emontional, that they went to the hotel only to talk (to talk about stopping the affair, in fact), and that they had never been to a hotel before that day.

I am not sure if I can trust her. She has clearly lied to me several times about this whole thing before being forced to admit otherwise. I feel that I need to know the whole truth before I can decide whether to reconcile with her. I also need to know the whole truth so that my heart can start to heal.

I am anxious to see what other people think. Is she telling the truth? If not, is there any way to make her tell the truth?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You don't go to a hotel to talk - you go to a coffee shop for that - you go to a hotel to have sex. She had a physical affair and is gas lighting you.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

No way she got a hotel room just to "talk". Don't buy that nonsense.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

nope

it's called trickle truth, cheaters lie to fit what you have found, and let's face it being at a hotel definitely means she is sleeping with him

see a lawyer


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Suggest a polygraph. Bet she shoots it down right away. Or she will agree, then she will reneg on going. Try it. If she refuses or renegs you know it happened.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I've worked in hotels for years and I can tell you that no one goes there to "talk". I am sorry, but I don't believe this for a second. She already tried blaming you for her unhappiness, which is a ridiculous defense. Even if you were the worst husband in the world, she would end the marriage first, if she had any integrity. I am sorry for what you are going through, I know it hurts. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Denial is an incredible thing. They went to the hotel to TALK? Are you kidding me?

And it was the first time - It's ALWAYS the first and only time when they're caught.

Oh, and OF COURSE it's your fault. You didn't even have to say that. It's also in the script. We've all read it before.

She slept with him. Sorry, but start to deal with it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

This is yet another example of the WS minimizing, gas lighting, and Trickle Truth.

Have her served divorce papers.  Then only admit this is emotional only.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Heartbreak--they more than likely had sex at that hotel. It may or may not have been the first time. Nobody goes to a hotel to talk when they are having an affair.

Who is the OM? Is he married? 

My advice to you right now is to stop asking her about it and start doing some investigative work to see if you can get more evidence that proves otherwise.

As long as she is having an affair with him, you have no marriage to work on.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Strangely enough, you see this outrageous lie very often in these forums "the two cheaters meeting up at a hotel for several hours to talk", usually about ending the affair no less. 

Like they couldn't use the phone or something.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

*I am not sure if I can trust her. She has clearly lied to me several times about this whole thing before being forced to admit otherwise. I feel that I need to know the whole truth before I can decide whether to reconcile with her. I also need to know the whole truth so that my heart can start to heal.*

Well my friend you just answered your one question


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You had better get tested for STDs before going to your lawyer. No telling what she brought home, STDs or crabs.


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## 20yrs (Sep 18, 2009)

...and you won't get the truth by trying to squeeze it out of her. You will only drive her further away. If you really want her to stay in your life as a healthy partner, then you need to court her. Make her remember why she married you in the first place. 

So many times guys use force as it's the only way they know to get the truth but it only drives the wedge deeper - women want to be courted.....which is why they go to hotel rooms. Take her to a motel... and court her.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

In her defense, based on what I can tell, she has stopped seeing/talking to the OM. I am not sure if that tells me anything (about whether they have gone physical or not).


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> In her defense, based on what I can tell, she has stopped seeing/talking to the OM. I am not sure if that tells me anything (about whether they have gone physical or not).


or she's being more careful about it, like a new phone you dont know about


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

You dont need the whole truth to heal your heart but do to heal your marraige (if possible). No matter what you will heal, everyone does just longer for some. Dont accept anything less from her what you need to be 100% complete or it will reappear, trust me. IF she can't then consider moving on and learning from this as to what you really need in a relationship next time.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Unless you're doing some hardcore investigative work they likely just took it deeper underground. People just don't quit affairs at the drop of a hat. Affairs are very hard to quit or kill, they don't just go away.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> In her defense, based on what I can tell, she has stopped seeing/talking to the OM. I am not sure if that tells me anything (about whether they have gone physical or not).


And how have you verified this? Because she said so? So you're ready to defend her already? Time for some copy and paste. You're in the denial phase.

First off, know that the affair is not your fault. Have you been the perfect husband? Of course not, no one is. She had other options besides cheating, such as communicating with you on working out the marital problems, going to Marriage Counseling (MC), etc. Yet she chose the easy option: cheating. Most likely because the Other Man (OM) stroked her ego and provided the shoulder to cry on. Your wife is now a Wayward Wife (WW), so consider as such. She will give the common excuses: You weren’t there for her, OM provided for her needs because you couldn’t, etc.

The last thing you should do is to cry, beg, and/or plead with her. This not only makes you unattractive, it drives her away. Trying your best to be the best husband doesn’t work either, because you cannot compete with the fantasy she has built up with the OM.

Now you have to play detective in order to save your marriage, or to get the proof you need to end it. If you can afford it, hire a PI. If not, you will have to do this on your own. What you need to find out is if this is an Emotional Affair (EA) only, or if this has progressed to a Physical Affair (PA). What you also need to find out is who exactly the OM is, his identity, if he’s married, and if he’s married, his Betrayed Wife’s (BW) contact information. You will need this info later on.

What you should not do is confront her too early about the Affair (A). You are going to need to gather all the information that you possibly can before confrontation. We Betrayed Spouses (BS) call this investigating. Others call it snooping. The cardinal rule about investigating is NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES!!! This will prevent her from denying the A, which they almost always do at first until presented with proof of the A. This will also prevent her from gas lighting you. Gas lighting is a term used when the WW, when confronted, will say that you are just jealous, imagining things, and that you are just crazy. Gathering enough proof of the A, also prevents the Wayward Spouse (WS) her, from giving you the Trickle Truth (TT). TT is when the WS minimizes what they have done in the A, and will only admit to what they think you know. For example: Most will say they only kissed their Affair Partner (AP) once, when in fact they went much farther than that. If the A has gone to a PA, they usually only admit to doing it once & with a condom! 

If the WS is using a computer as part of the tools of the A, then you will need to install computer monitoring software, the basic ones are keyloggers. There are free ones, which basically only record keystrokes, to the more expensive ones that record keystrokes, capture screenshots of the computer, email you the results, etc. There are good ones like Spector Pro, Web Watcher, Spy Agent, etc. There are also free ones, but you get what you pay for. Why do you need a keylogger? So you can be aware of their communications, such as how long this has been going on, what they have done, and what they are planning to do. Another key tool cheaters use is the secret email account. A keylogger will capture their usernames and passwords. 

Now you might feel guilty about investigating/verifying. Sorry, but their privacy went out the window the second they endangered the marriage by having an A. It is your right to investigate now, so don’t lose any sleep or feel guilty about it. If they try to turn it around on you (blame shift), tell them it’s your right because they are having an A. 

Another tool that cheaters use is the cell phone of course. Some carriers allow you to check online who the other person is calling and/or texting. If you don’t have access to this information, then use the keylogger to obtain it. If your WS has a smart phone, you may be able to install phone monitoring software such as Mobile Spy or Mobistealth. This will allow you to see their text messages. The more expensive versions of Mobile Spy and Mobistealth even allow you to listen in on their conversations in near real time, and use the GPS to track their location. If your WS suspects that you are on to them, they may purchase a secret cell phone. A clue that your WS has a secret cell phone is if they suddenly leave their regular cell phone lying about when before they were guarding it at all times. This brings me to the Voice Activated Recorder (VAR). 

A VAR can be purchased very cheap, usually around $40 or more, at either Walmart, Best Buy, or your local electronics store. A VAR can be very useful at determining if your WS has a secret cell phone. Also, a strategically placed VAR can be very useful if you are unable to install phone monitoring software on their cell phone. A good place to hide a VAR is in the WS vehicle. If there is one place they feel secure in talking with their AP, it’s in their vehicle. Some place it under the drivers seat with industrial strength Velcro. It’s up to you where you can place your VAR. You may want to hide one in your bedroom or the bathroom in order to record their conversations.

Once you have gathered your proof, it is time to confront your WW. This is called the Day of Discovery (DDay). This may well be the most traumatic day of your life. If you have gathered enough proof, your WW will not be able to deny, gas light, or TT you. Your WW will either go into crying fits, be angry, or both. She will try to blame you for the A, tell you she has been unhappy for months or years. Re-Writing the history of the marriage is a common tactic, they use it to justify the A to themselves. Stay strong and know this is not your fault! This is hers!

She will say that she does not know what she wants. This is called fence sitting. She wants the security of marriage, but wants to play around with her OM. Do not stand for this. It is either you or him. There is no room in a marriage for 3 partners. 

Another common occurrence is that the WS will leave the house when confronted on DDay. This is usually only for a few days or weeks. The WW will usually contact the OM about what happened. The WW usually comes home after a few days, but sometimes they don’t. DO NOT beg her to come home. Like I said earlier, this makes you look weak. 

Another common tactic that the WS does is to cry and plead that they want to fix the marriage after they have been caught, but then they take the A “underground”. This is when the WS has talked to the AP about ways to continue the A without your knowledge. This is usually when they resort to using a secret email account and a secret cell phone. If you have not revealed your sources, then you can usually find out if they have taken the A underground. 

If they wish to stay in the marriage, then you have to remain firm and demand No Contact (NC). They must end the affair and go NC. That is the ONLY way to save your marriage, by killing the affair. An A is exactly like a drug, because the WS receives a “high” from the affair. Feel good chemicals like dopamine and others, are excreted in the brain during the A. Giving them a high feeling, the feeling of being in love, etc. 

If your WS is very deep in the fog of the A, and refuses to go NC, or the OM/OW refuses to go NC, then the next step is exposing the A. This means contacting the other BS. This serves two purposes. This helps kill the affair by bringing it into the light of day, and you have another set of eyes watching the other side of the affair. You might even be able to compare notes with the BS and find out more information, or they may have information about the A that you didn’t know about. The other reason is because it’s the right thing to do. Wouldn’t you want someone to have told you what was going on?

Remember the monitoring I was telling you about? Monitoring the WW will allow you to know if she has broken NC. If the OM contacts her and she doesn’t tell you about it, that is also breaking NC. And if you ultimately decide to Reconcile (R), then monitoring will help rebuild trust. After you keep finding nothing, and she is doing her part in R, then you will find yourself monitoring less and less. Eventually you may be able to wean yourself off from monitoring her since she has rebuilt some trust.

Try reading these too:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26360-betrayed-spouse-script.html

Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights « betrayed but recovering

Best Computer Monitoring Software 2011 | Reviews, Ratings & More

Mobile Spy - Monitor SMS Text Messages, Call Info and GPS Locations on iPhone, BlackBerry, Android, Windows Mobile and Symbian OS Smartphones. Spy Software for Monitoring your Cell Phone

MobiStealth | Spy Mobile Phone Software, Cell Phone Spy Monitoring, GPS Location Tracking App For $39.99 | iPhone, Blackberry, Android, Symbian/Nokia Spyware

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips+-+Voice+Tracer+Digital+Voice+Recorder/2596305.p?id=1218338417967&skuId=2596305

Walmart.com: Sony ICD-BX8112 Digital Flash Voice Recorder: iPods & MP3 Players


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

20yrs said:


> ...and you won't get the truth by trying to squeeze it out of her. You will only drive her further away. If you really want her to stay in your life as a healthy partner, then you need to court her. Make her remember why she married you in the first place.
> 
> So many times guys use force as it's the only way they know to get the truth but it only drives the wedge deeper - women want to be courted.....which is why they go to hotel rooms. Take her to a motel... and court her.


Oh that's great. Reward the bad behavior, that way she can do it again. No consequences for banging another guy.


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

20yrs said:


> ...and you won't get the truth by trying to squeeze it out of her. You will only drive her further away. If you really want her to stay in your life as a healthy partner, then you need to court her. Make her remember why she married you in the first place.
> 
> So many times guys use force as it's the only way they know to get the truth but it only drives the wedge deeper - women want to be courted.....which is why they go to hotel rooms. Take her to a motel... and court her.


Court her really? Sorry that is the worst advice I have ever heard. If there was love there before then she should would want to make things work out and be willing to work on things. So if you are cheated on just try harder? Great way to reinforce bad behavior. They need to deal with the issues and if they can get past that then he should look at what else he needs to do to make her happy. She should be courting him if anything.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

She's lying and giving you the trickle truth. If you were to find proof of another hotel visit, I'm sure she'd have an explanation or claim she forgot about that time.

Her story about going to a hotel to talk is ridiculous and a very common excuse with cheaters. If they needed to talk, and didn't want to risk their marriages by being found in a compromising location, a hotel would be far from the first choice. Also, think of the money involved in that choice. Even for a couple hours a hotel costs about $100. Check her ATM withdrawals, but I'm guessing he paid. And believe me, not many people are going to pay $100 for a hotel room "just to talk".

I doubt the hotel clerk will give information about their visits (I bet there is more than the one time), but to get a room you have to show ID. The hotel will have a record of their stays if they keep going to the same place. You can ask the hotel what is the minimum amount of time a room can be rented and for how much. This will give you an idea of how much time they had together each visit and how much it cost them. Many nice hotels rent a room for an afternoon for company business interviews. If they're co-workers, that's probably the guise they used.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this and I know you want to believe your wife. But right now you just can't. Until she starts being truthful and giving you the painful facts of the affair, there's no chance for true recovery.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Strangely enough, you see this outrageous lie very often in these forums "the two cheaters meeting up at a hotel for several hours to talk", usually about ending the affair no less.
> 
> *Like they couldn't use the phone or something.*


I know, right? I guess their cells weren't working...


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> In her defense, based on what I can tell, she has stopped seeing/talking to the OM. I am not sure if that tells me anything (about whether they have gone physical or not).


You've caught her in a physical sexual relationship with another man.

She hasn't stopped communicating with, she's just hiding it now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Tell her she has 1 opportunity and 1 opportunity only to tell you everything. Tell her you know. And if she lies about anything or fails to mention anything, divorce is quickly on the table. You will not live in an open marriage.

Get tested.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Yeah, she's most likely taken it underground. They hardly ever snap out of the fog that easily.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

...unless there is a hard boundary w/ massive consequences in place VERY fast.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Is he married/partnered?


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

Yes, the OM is married. I am trying to contact his wife to expose him and have not been able to talk to her yet. 

Yes, I know I am probably still in denial. What more evidence do I need? Deep inside, I know they have gone physical. I just need to hear it from her mouth.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Have proof ready to give to the OMW. Odds are she'll have a hard time believing it and will want to defend him. I found out from the OWH and although it was the hardest day of my life, I'm glad he told me. Keep trying. There is the possibility she has an inkling or is suspicious, be prepared for anything.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

You really need to ask yourself one question. Does it really matter if you hear it from her lips? Is it going to make you feel any better? You might think so now but really think about it. Does it matter? You have enough evidence to know what the truth is. Like some said there's a thousand placed besides a hotel room to go and talk. Actually, I find that excuse beyond insulting and so should you. If you want to save the marriage you must blow the affair up completely. Full nuclear exposure should be in play here.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

The only thing stopping me from full nuclear exposure is that I still want an amicable divorce (if we do go that route) for the sake of the kids.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

If you're looking for an amicable divorce then you just need to let it go. You will never get the answers you want to hear. Yes, you want to heal and feel she should at least give you that much but it's not going to happen. You either blow it up or you don't. If you don't then you have to move on and let it go. Unfortunately, all the answers you seeks will come out in due time but you will only heal by yourself and the people around you. Don't expect your wife to help you with this.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> The only thing stopping me from full nuclear exposure is that I still want an amicable divorce (if we do go that route) for the sake of the kids.


Read up on the 180... someone will shortly post a link for you.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

She is going to act the way she wants to act during a divorce whether you expose or not. Its all about getting what she wants.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> Yes, the OM is married. I am trying to contact his wife to expose him and have not been able to talk to her yet.
> 
> Yes, I know I am probably still in denial. What more evidence do I need? Deep inside, I know they have gone physical. I just need to hear it from her mouth.



....and you're never going to get that without hard evidence. I suggest that you get some voice activated recorders (VAR) and plant some of them around the house. Anywhere where she would talk on her phone. If she has and iphone and if she ever charged her phone in the computers USB port, the iphone and the computer probably sync'd up. Therefore, if you download an iphone file extractor, all texts that, that phone has is on a file in that computer, the extractor will retrieve that file for you. Even texts that she deleted will show up.

Get a keylogger for your home computer. Get a VAR and some heavy duty velcro and velcro the VAR under the seat of her car. Try to catch any conversations she may be having.

You wrote that once you confronted, she stopped contacting the OM. Sorry, chances are, she learned to hide it better.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

1. You would have to be in total denial to believe such a story. People go out for coffee to talk....they go to hotels to have sex and you know this.
2. She continues to lie to your face.
3. She clearly thinks that you are a total fool and believes that you are so dumb that you would believe such a ludicrous story.
4. You need to get tested for STD's now.
5. You need to immediately expose to OM's wife.
6. You need to immediately seek out an excellent lawyer to protect yourself. If your wife is willing to do this then you know she would have no problems screwing up your accounts and assets. You must be proactive now.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

The hotel excuse is just insulting. I think we all have our do you expect me to believe that stories but the going to a hotel to talk excuse is just deplorable. It's like you're beyond an idiot to her. I agree about getting in contact with a lawyer as well. You have no idea who she's talking to.


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## DesperateHouseWife (Oct 24, 2011)

Coming from someone that had an affair. Your wife is cheating on you,and I'm sure this isn't the first time she is at the hotel with this man. The phone calls several times a day,and then wa-la hotel. I'm so sorry the truth hurts. I hurt someone I love,and I'm paying for an affair for as long as I live.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

HBM,

Without your wife's remorse and willingness to carry the heavy load of marital recovery, the odds of your marriage surviving her infidelity are practically zero. You must make peace with the possibility that the woman you fell in love and asked you to marry is gone forever so that you can make the hard decision to divorce her. If you don't, you will not be able to emotionally heal.

Divorce is painful but more so is voluntarily living in a one sided open marriage.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

I am slowly coming to the realization that our marriage is over. I still have a lot of feelings for her, and I believe she still has some feelings (not love) left for me. I just don't see how we can regain the love we once had for each other. 

We agree to "cool down" for a period of time before deciding whether to D or or, and she agrees not to see/talk to the OM about any personal things. But since she and the OM still work together, I don't know how to enforce NC. I can check her cell phone record, but I certainly can't say for sure if anything is still happening between them.

At this point, even if she shows remorse, tells the whole truth, and is willing to work on rebuilding our marriage, I am not sure if I would go along with that. But 17 years of marriage is a long time, and she is still a wonderful mom. So I feel that the marriage deserves a final chance.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> I am slowly coming to the realization that our marriage is over. I still have a lot of feelings for her, and I believe she still has some feelings (not love) left for me. I just don't see how we can regain the love we once had for each other.
> 
> We agree to "cool down" for a period of time before deciding whether to D or or, and she agrees not to see/talk to the OM about any personal things. But since she and the OM still work together, I don't know how to enforce NC. I can check her cell phone record, but I certainly can't say for sure if anything is still happening between them.
> 
> At this point, even if she shows remorse, tells the whole truth, and is willing to work on rebuilding our marriage, I am not sure if I would go along with that. But 17 years of marriage is a long time, and she is still a wonderful mom. So I feel that the marriage deserves a final chance.


They won't cool down, they never do if they're coworkers. This is fact. You want to see true remorse? If she was truly remorseful, she would literally do anything to earn back your trust and love. She would quit her job and find a job elsewhere. 

But I really doubt you're going to get any of that from her from what you describe.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I am sorry for your pain. If the roles were reversed do you think she would have been so accepting of the lying and cheating and putting her health at risk for STD's as you have?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

20yrs said:


> ...and you won't get the truth by trying to squeeze it out of her. You will only drive her further away. *If you really want her to stay in your life as a healthy partner, then you need to court her. *Make her remember why she married you in the first place.
> 
> So many times guys use force as it's the only way they know to get the truth but it only drives the wedge deeper - women want to be courted.....which is why they go to hotel rooms. Take her to a motel... and court her.


 
Only if one wants to court a liar or a cheater...


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## ScullyFan (Oct 23, 2011)

Listen to all the advice that you already got here. She is in physical affair, no one goes to a hotel just "to talk" she is trying to gas light you! Most likely she just took the affair underground. Do not hesitate in exposure, if it comes down to a divorce she will make you the bad guy and use anything she can against you! Expose!


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> The only thing stopping me from full nuclear exposure is that I still want an amicable divorce (if we do go that route) for the sake of the kids.


Heartbroken, I am so sorry that you are here. My best advice to you is do all that these people advise, I came here too late and floundered on my own. They know what they are doing and you will never regret having information to make an informed choice. Lay low, start IC, and start gathering as much information you can, start going through all your credit card bills, call the companies and try to block any hotel charges (not sure if you can do that). If you have the funds available hire a PI. For the sake of the children make an informed decision this time, if you don't the next time this happens you will be even more emotional and it will be even harder to hide those feelings. 

Ask her to write a NC letter, have her include the fact that they were in a hotel together. This may give you something more solid to give to the OMW later if you haven't found much more info. I'm not sure of this idea though, any other advice on this thought? Although I'm pretty darn sure if you look deep enough you will find what you need.

How old are your children? I would recommend you guys getting into marriage counseling asap for their sake. Not to work on your marriage but to have a safe place to talk / vent about what you want in regards to a divorce etc. It was one thing I asked of my exH, not for our marriage but to get help with functioning as a dysfunctional family.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

bryanp said:


> I am sorry for your pain. If the roles were reversed do you think she would have been so accepting of the lying and cheating and putting her health at risk for STD's as you have?


Good question. No, she wouldn't. I am always the more forgiving partner between us.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

To enforce NC she needs to quit. If she was serious about rebuilding your marriage, she would be willing to leave her job.

Don't believe a word she says right now, sounds like she's still in damage control. It's usually the first reaction a wayward has on discovery. They will say anything to minimize the affair and try to rug sweep. I highly doubt she has stopped talking to the OM. He's probably freaking out about you telling his wife, so she's probably giving him a heads up on how you're dealing.

It's too easy for them to contact each other at work without your knowledge . . . email, IM, office phone, conference room, lunch. Dropping an affair is hard. My H said it took several months for the urge to see or talk to the OW finally left. He was tempted a lot to break NC. This from a man who truly wanted to rebuild and work on our marriage! The feelings and fantasy involved during an affair don't end immediately.

Of course you want to try and save your marriage, but it can't be saved until she's being open, transparent, and honest.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Saffron said:


> To enforce NC she needs to quit. If she was serious about rebuilding your marriage, she would be willing to leave her job.
> 
> Don't believe a word she says right now, sounds like she's still in damage control. It's usually the first reaction a wayward has on discovery. They will say anything to minimize the affair and try to rug sweep. I highly doubt she has stopped talking to the OM. He's probably freaking out about you telling his wife, so she's probably giving him a heads up on how you're dealing.
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

What's clearly a full blown affair with hotel meetings makes saving this marriage very difficult to begin with. As for a cooling down period please trust me from experience that doesn't work. All you do is walk around ignoring the obvious and for a couple of weeks you might be happy with the new found peaceful waters. That doesn't last because things get choppy again real quick.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

20yrs said:


> ...and you won't get the truth by trying to squeeze it out of her. You will only drive her further away. If you really want her to stay in your life as a healthy partner, then you need to court her. Make her remember why she married you in the first place.
> 
> So many times guys use force as it's the only way they know to get the truth but it only drives the wedge deeper - women want to be courted.....which is why they go to hotel rooms. Take her to a motel... and court her.


 Court her???....that's like climbing into bed with the devil. Courting her at this point would be like saying "It's ok that you ripped my heart out honey, and to prove it I'm going to give you another chance at it. Courting her may have done some good before all this started but all it would do now is give her the opportunity for a repeat performance.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

I'm sorry for your situation. 

If you still want your wife, you have to fight for her. And let her know that you want her back, and that you believe that your marriage is strong enough to get through this. And if she wants to do the same, she needs to quit her job now. Tell her you'll find a way to make it financially (if that is a concern) while she's looking for a new job. 

If she declines, place divorce papers on the table and give her one more chance. Remember, the OM's W will react when she finds out as well. Ignore him and his problems, and work on your wife and yourself. Hope for the best, but expect the worst. Prepare yourself for either outcome. Take control and go after what you want.

I wish you, and your marriage, the best.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm sorry you're in this spot as well. Just remember that avoidance of the reality might make things calmer for a little while but will only cause you more pain down the road.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

People talk a coffee shops, hotels are for sleeping and sex. I'm not thinking shewas tired,


I'm sorry, but your being lied to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't know how she held a straight face while telling you they went to a hotel to talk.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

*Re: Is she telling the truth? Sorry, I think not.*

Heartbrokenman, 
Sorry you are here. Your story is similar to mine. 14 years and 3 kids. I followed my gut an bought a GPS tracker as well. I tracked my wife to a hotel as well and guess what? She told me the same story...we were just talking. She lied and denied any PA for months. During that time I was digging for anything I could find. My gut told me she was having a PA as well but she would only admit an EA. Out of frustration I contacted the OM's wife and guess what? She knew way more then I did. She sent be thousands of emails between wife and OM. Their PA had been going on for over a year right under my nose! 

I thought we had a happy marriage. I think a lot of BS's think "my spouse could never do something like this...especially to me". The truth is we only hope they couldn't do something like this but the reality is...some can...and will. 

I feel your wife has gone underground with the affair for now until things cool off. My wife did the same thing for a while. These affairs usually don't just stop. They contain elements of an addiction and the cheaters will still try to get their fix of each other. You must verify everything for a time just to make sure. Gather info. Eventually this will drive you crazy but for now, it is necessary.

You need to contact to OM's wife and find out anything she may know and if she doesn't know yet…you need to inform her. That may shut things down from his end. Mean while you need to make some decisions about your future with or without your wife. Once you have indisputable proof then, and only then, should you confront her.

Now is not the time to be soft. Take it from me and please learn from my mistakes. I tried the softer approach and she dragged her feet and TT'd me for months. The time to bring full guns to bear is at the beginning of the battle. If she is in the affair fog you can't ease her out of it. You can shock and awe her though by dropping reality on her like a ton of bricks. Divorce papers will do that…could snap her out of it. You need to be solid iron right now. 

You need to set up boundaries in your marriage and if she crosses them…she is gone. Make that clear to her. Start a hard 180...work and focus on yourself.

Demand NC…or she is gone. 
Demand total transparency…or she's gone. 
Demand passwords for all email, instant messenger…etc…or she's gone.
Demand the whole truth-story with a timeline of their affair…or she's gone.
Demand she seek therapy…or you guessed it…she's gone.

If she doesn't comply I would file for D. Just because you file doesn't mean you have to follow through...you can halt the process. I know it may sound drastic right now but look at what she has done up until this point. She is at very least lying to you...deception. She is hiding part of her life from you. Is this what you want from a partner, wife, lover or a friend? Brace yourself for the worst...what you know is possibly only the tip of the iceberg. Think of it this way. If you file for D and she dumps him and totally recommits to your marriage then you have a chance. If she decides to leave then you know where she stands...either way, you will know where you will need to go. Remember, after you find out everything you will still be processing the pain for years to come. Trust may never return. Do you want to spend the rest of your life always wondering where she is, what she is doing and with who? That's not living! There is bound to be resentment down the road. Reconciling is a long hard road...but so is divorce. At least divorce has an ending so you can heal and move on.

I wish I would have filed for D at the point that you are right now. I didn't and I regret it. I took the patient and understanding route. It has been 10 months now and I am still in hell everyday. My wife has always been selfish and during her affair she got a lot worse. She still has not told me everything and probably never will. She has only now started therapy. She claims NC for 6 months but who really knows…right?
I do have my attorney on speed dial and I am out of patience. Lately I feel that I am just delaying the inevitable and dragging out the pain.

Good luck my friend.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

When you say you're slowly coming to the realization that your marriage is over, is it because you're slowly realizing her affair was physical? Or is it because her actions are showing you it's over?

As far as the hotel, try to think of it in this way. If a woman asked you to get a hotel room to talk, would you honestly think that's all you'd do? If a man suggested the same thing to a woman, do you think she'd go without realizing sex was a possibility? 

If your wife had feelings for the OM and wanted to make sure she didn't have sex with him, then she never would've let herself be tempted by going to a hotel with him. The only reason to get a hotel is for visual privacy. They wanted to be alone and didn't want anyone to see what they were doing.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Mrs. T said:


> Court her???....that's like climbing into bed with the devil. Courting her at this point would be like saying "It's ok that you ripped my heart out honey, and to prove it I'm going to give you another chance at it. Courting her may have done some good before all this started but all it would do now is give her the opportunity for a repeat performance.


This is true, you would be rewarding her for cheating on you and do you think that would motivate her to stop?

They only thing that will really wake her up is being served divorce papers. Considering all the lies, the length of the affair, and the fact they work together says it ain't over and won't be for a while.

You can't "nice' her out of it, the best course of action would be move forward towards a divorce and see how much effort she puts in stopping you.

Divorce is a process that can be stopped at any time and it will show her you will not tolerate her disrespect. Sitting in limbo waiting on her only benefits her, not you. Find some of the long threads on here with people that have already gone through this and you'll get an idea of what your future holds.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Have you contacted the Om's wifeYet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

Saffron said:


> When you say you're slowly coming to the realization that your marriage is over, is it because you're slowly realizing her affair was physical? Or is it because her actions are showing you it's over?


I say that mainly because I can feel my love for her slowing draining away from me, to the point where I can look at her and our marriage more objectively.

Good point about the hotel thing.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Have you contacted the Om's wifeYet?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not yet. I do not have her phone number and her home phone (if they have one) is not public. I actually drove to their house today 'cause I know she is a housewife and would normally be home during the day, but she wasn't there. I am tempted to just go to their house at night time, and not caring whether the OM is there or not.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

bad idea
you need to tell her everything without him being there

for starters he may get violent or start a confrontation
secondly he could make you seem like a crazy jealous husband


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Do you want to know what makes their whole secret relationship more exciting and intriguing?

The fact that you are still married to her.

Dont ask me why, but theres this whole "thrill" of secrecy and elusiveness that adds some weird attraction to their situation.

As soon as you cut her loose and begin living your own life, suddenly, all they have is some boring old normal relationship, which unfortunately was also born out of lying and cheating and all those other great foundations to build upon.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Have you looked for the OM's wife on Facebook? Googled her?

If you can't find contact info send her a registered letter with your evidence & e-mail and phone number
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScullyFan (Oct 23, 2011)

Shooboomafoo said:


> Do you want to know what makes their whole secret relationship more exciting and intriguing?
> 
> The fact that you are still married to her.
> 
> ...



:iagree:

There's something so sick and dysfunctional about it that as long as you are married to her she will keep pursuing this OM and this affair, it's like she gets her high from all this. Once you move on and start living your life without her in the picture her fantasy will die, is no longer fun!


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> I say that mainly because I can feel my love for her slowing draining away from me, to the point where I can look at her and our marriage more objectively.
> 
> Good point about the hotel thing.


I know it may be hard to think about right now but you also need to start thinking about yourself and taking care of yourself. Make a life for yourself. Go out with friends and do the things you like to do. Don't sit around in misery while she continues to walk around like nothing matters.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

" Based on the cell phone record, I suspect that there is a specific day of the week when they meet." 

Looks like you've pretty much figured it out.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> I know it may be hard to think about right now but you also need to start thinking about yourself and taking care of yourself. Make a life for yourself. Go out with friends and do the things you like to do. Don't sit around in misery while she continues to walk around like nothing matters.


I can tell that she is hurting too. She is probably too ashamed to admit the truth, and too broken to be able to give this marriage another chance. She said she is starting to look for another job, but it will take time. But she is all but resigned to the fact that we will get a D. I am willing to give her another chance if she does certain things: whole truth, NC, counseling. But she is unwilling to do any of that except NC, which I can't fully verify.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

I feel for you but that's why I'm giving you this advice. I think you pretty much know this is over as well. Start looking ahead and take care of yourself and your life. You're on page 7 and she's on page 378.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

" I did not bring up the cell phone record. I wanted to give her a chance to tell me the truth. She denied any wrong-doing and blamed me for making her unhappy with the marriage."

Had she talked about having problems with the marriage. How far back do you think this goes?


"But she is unwilling to do any of that except NC, which I can't fully verify. "

Has she given you a reason for her unwillingness?


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

This is exactly what my wife did. All she did was NC but it took months. I only have about 3/4 of the pieces of the story puzzle. I think my wife is filled with shame about what she did...but I'm not sure. She just can't talk about it. She stares at the floor and goes silent...which does me no good. 10 months later she is finely in therapy. The only way I have been able to get her to take some kind of action is to threaten her with D. Then and only then will she take baby steps. It could take years for her to figure out why she made the choices that she did. In the mean time I have to live in limbo?

Be the hammer not the nail. File for D and wake her ass up or leave her. She sounds like my wife... stubborn. It she is she will drag her feet, TT you to death and keep you in the hell of limbo until she decides. Force her decision. You are in charge now.

Makingsenceofit is right. She is way ahead of you. She has been processing this for a lot longer.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

The reason she agreed to NC only is she still works with him, and she knows she can still maintain contact despite her words. She is basically refusing to end the A. Even if you think D is likely path eventually, you must do what you have to do for now. 

Contact OMW when OM is not around. Visit their house as often as you can when you are sure OM is not there. 

Even after this revelation, your W refusing to end the A means this has been a deep EA/PA relationship for a while. She is extremely foggy at this point.

Also, if she is real adamant about her never sleeping with him, then calmly ask her if she can back it up by taking polygraph.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> I can tell that she is hurting too. She is probably too ashamed to admit the truth, and too broken to be able to give this marriage another chance. She said she is starting to look for another job, but it will take time. But she is all but resigned to the fact that we will get a D. I am willing to give her another chance if she does certain things: whole truth, NC, counseling. But she is unwilling to do any of that except NC, which I can't fully verify.


Then no dice, my dear. She is not in a position to be saying what she will and won't do. She needs to earn her way back. If she was truly remorseful, she would have zero problems whatsoever w/ telling you the whole truth and nothing but the truth, marriage counselling, and anything else you request. She is not there yet. So what you do is tell her unequivocally: _"Me or the affair. There is no middle ground, there is no negotiating. I deserve better than an open marriage and I refuse to live in one. You have a choice but I also do."_


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Then no dice, my dear. She is not in a position to be saying what she will and won't do. She needs to earn her way back. If she was truly remorseful, she would have zero problems whatsoever w/ telling you the whole truth and nothing but the truth, marriage counselling, and anything else you request. She is not there yet. So what you do is tell her unequivocally: _"Me or the affair. There is no middle ground, there is no negotiating. I deserve better than an open marriage and I refuse to live in one. You have a choice but I also do."_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Decimated said:


> Demand NC…or she is gone.
> Demand total transparency…or she's gone.
> Demand passwords for all email, instant messenger…etc…or she's gone.
> Demand the whole truth-story with a timeline of their affair…or she's gone.
> Demand she seek therapy…or you guessed it…she's gone.


:iagree:

Now is not the time to be weak or waiver. Set a hard boundary and enforce a hard consequence. If she smells just a tiny bit of you not meaning what you say, she will take you for the run of your life. 

You HAVE to lose your fear of losing her. Right now she thinks there will be zero consequences for her actions. Prove her wrong. she is having her cake and eating it too. Don't spoon feed her the cake.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I was running across the room, tripped and fell on his erection. Repeatedly.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> :iagree:
> 
> You HAVE to lose your fear of losing her. Right now she thinks there will be zero consequences for her actions. Prove her wrong. she is having her cake and eating it too. Don't spoon feed her the cake.


I think I had that fear for about 3 weeks after D day, and I tried to get her to cooperate by being nice. I was also in denial for those 3 weeks. But for the last week or so, I think I have wake up (onto the anger stage, I suppose) and I no longer fear losing her. I have been much harder on her, but it does not seem to working so far. I will probably give this another month before going ahead with D.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

If she's not willing to go to counseling and talk about the affair truthfully, it's highly unlikely she is following through with NC. Even if she actually wanted to go NC, how does she think she'll resist going back to the OM if she doesn't get counseling or talk to you about it? Impossible. She's only trying to appease you for the moment, when instead she should be trying to earn your trust back.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I was running across the room, tripped and fell on his erection. Repeatedly.


That actually gave me a smile. Thanks.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> You HAVE to lose your fear of losing her. Right now she thinks there will be zero consequences for her actions. Prove her wrong. she is having her cake and eating it too. Don't spoon feed her the cake.


Good point. You need to feel comfortable moving on without her. She will sense this new confidence and strength in you. You can't really fake that. She does not feel the consequences for her actions... neither did my wife and I think she still doesn't believe I would D her.

I believe your wife's emotions could run deep for this guy...my wife's did. Think of it in terms of wants and needs. Her needs will out way her wants in life....or at least they should. Needs being family, financial security, her whole life as she knew it before her affair and her wants being the OM. If she feels her needs being suddenly taken away she may wake up. I think most people given the choice between wants and needs...will instinctively choose needs. 

Do not be her safety net.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> I will probably give this another month before going ahead with D.


Why?

She won`t give you what you need until you force her to.

How is waiting a month going to help you?

You have a chance of making great progress if she has divorce papers in her hand within the week.

If she still isn`t on board then you`re closer to being where you need to be.

What do you gain by waiting?


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> I think I had that fear for about 3 weeks after D day, and I tried to get her to cooperate by being nice. I was also in denial for those 3 weeks. But for the last week or so, I think I have wake up (onto the anger stage, I suppose) and I no longer fear losing her. I have been much harder on her, but it does not seem to working so far. I will probably give this another month before going ahead with D.


I wouldn't wait a month. Make your demands. If she doesn't comply then contact some attorneys. Make some appointments and go in and talk. Usually their consolations are free. Find one that instills confidence in you. set up a date to start the filing process and proceed. Let you wife know when your appointment is as a courtesy and go. Tell her she has until that date to commit to the rebuilding process. She will start to sweat as the day grows closer...I guarantee it. The thing is you have to follow through...no bluffing! I tried it and bluffing is not the way to go...they see through it. They must really fear your next move.

In the mean time start rediscover yourself. Spend time with your children and do the 180.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> Why?
> 
> She won`t give you what you need until you force her to.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Why?
> 
> She won`t give you what you need until you force her to.
> 
> ...


It's mainly for the kids. I hope that if she has been NC as she claims, then given a bit of time, she will wake up to reality. Until she shows true remorse, and starts to do the heavy lifting of making this marriage work, I don't intend to take her back at all (as I said, I no longer fear a future without her).


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Good. Keep it that way.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> It's mainly for the kids. I hope that if she has been NC as she claims, then given a bit of time, she will wake up to reality. Until she shows true remorse, and starts to do the heavy lifting of making this marriage work, I don't intend to take her back at all (as I said, I no longer fear a future without her).


The problem with this is that without any consequences she has absolutely no reason to "wake up to reality".
you are actually enabling her fantasy world by refusing to set the boundary.

She will show no remorse until she thinks she is going to lose what is dear to her.

I know you have a better chance of reconciling with her and getting her to start respecting you if she has d-papers in hand.

Without "reality" slapping her in the face she`ll never see it.
You`re actually helping her decide to leave you.

Sorry.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Saffron said:


> *To enforce NC she needs to quit. If she was serious about rebuilding your marriage, she would be willing to leave her job.*
> 
> Don't believe a word she says right now, sounds like she's still in damage control. It's usually the first reaction a wayward has on discovery. They will say anything to minimize the affair and try to rug sweep. I highly doubt she has stopped talking to the OM. He's probably freaking out about you telling his wife, so she's probably giving him a heads up on how you're dealing.
> 
> ...


No job is worth a marriage. Expose them to her HR department. You may need to gather some more evidence first but you need to be swift about it. If the hotel visits were on compnay time then you probably have enough now. HR will not accept them going to a hotel for a couple of hours to talk.
I suppose they will claim it was over lunch but none-the-less I would take it to her work.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Saffron said:


> When you say you're slowly coming to the realization that your marriage is over, is it because you're slowly realizing her affair was physical? Or is it because her actions are showing you it's over?
> 
> As far as the hotel, try to think of it in this way. If a woman asked you to get a hotel room to talk, would you honestly think that's all you'd do? If a man suggested the same thing to a woman, do you think she'd go without realizing sex was a possibility?
> 
> If your wife had feelings for the OM and wanted to make sure she didn't have sex with him, then she never would've let herself be tempted by going to a hotel with him. The only reason to get a hotel is for visual privacy. They wanted to be alone and didn't want anyone to see what they were doing.


Actually I would consider a wife setting up date with another man to talk was being unfaithful to her husband. 

A wife setting up a date to meet another man at a hotel is beyond just unfaithful. You do not need to see her riding the the other man. There is no excuse for her going any where with this guy.

BUT, there is zero doubt that this has not gone physical many times over.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> No job is worth a marriage. Expose them to her HR department. You may need to gather some more evidence first but you need to be swift about it. If the hotel visits were on compnay time then you probably have enough now. HR will not accept them going to a hotel for a couple of hours to talk.
> I suppose they will claim it was over lunch but none-the-less I would take it to her work.


Do this later. Otherwise, this will impact any spousal support calculations if she does not have a job.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

RWB said:


> HBM,
> 
> You said at least "She is Still a Good Mom"...
> 
> ...


I know I am being soft on her. As far as I know, this is the only affair she had (and it came after a LONG time working with the OM). That being said, I will get myself checked.

Yes, I am slowly waking up.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

aug said:


> Do this later. Otherwise, this will impact any spousal support calculations if she does not have a job.


Agreed and I already considered it. I told her I would give her some time to find another job. Once she did, I would expose it to her employer. I have absolutely no sympathy for the OM and I intend to make his life a living hell as best as I can.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She isn't ending the affair. Why fo I say this? It because now that the drama of you finding out is over, there are no further consequences she is dealing with. Why? Because your stepping back and letting her continue doing what she wants. You are refusing to contact the OMW , the employer , and you haven't filed for divorce, or gone to MC.

So she has gotten through this hurdle and it's clear sailing for the affair to keep going.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Why is it that some individuals come on here to whine about how horrible their marriages are when they are being treated worse than a door mat (at least a door mat is picked up and shaken out periodically), and when given advice that will restore their self-confidence and give them the upper-hand, poo poo it as being extreme and "for the childrens' sake" I'll get walked over some more - no big deal even though I am whining?

No offense HBM, you aren't the only one, but SHEESH!


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

meizu754uio said:


> Suggest a polygraph. Bet she shoots it down right away. Or she will agree, then she will reneg on going. Try it. If she refuses or renegs you know it happened.


There is no need for that. Any logical person would know what happened. She does not want to lose her face in front of me and she is not interested in R. So I am moving on. Originally I was going to give it some more time, but after we talked last night, it became apparent that we are both ready to move on. I will contact the lawyer today. I made it clear that she gets custody of the children as long as she is not living with the OM - she can be single or living with someone else, and she agreed. The kids are her life. So I don't think she will jeopardize her custody rights for the OM. Has anyone had experience with this sort of "conditional custody"?


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> She isn't ending the affair. Why fo I say this? It because now that the drama of you finding out is over, there are no further consequences she is dealing with. Why? Because your stepping back and letting her continue doing what she wants. You are refusing to contact the OMW , the employer , and you haven't filed for divorce, or gone to MC.
> 
> So she has gotten through this hurdle and it's clear sailing for the affair to keep going.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Call me crazy, but my instinct tells me she has not been meeting the OM since D Day (also supported by phone record, her coming home early everyday, etc.) 

I have been trying to contact the OMW, just have not been successful. I told her I would expose this to her employer, but agreed to give her some time to find another job. I have also contacted a divorce lawyer. She is definitely paying for her affair, now and down the road too.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

I know this is very tough but from your last couple of posts it seems quite clear what the story is here. The marriage is over. You may feel like you're losing everything but it will be best to at least be able to walk away with your dignity and self respect. This is not a mutual breakup because of some differences you couldn't overcome. She decided to solve whatever problems you two had by sleeping with another man. Get a good lawyer and in light of everything let him handle things for you. I'm sorry but if you really wanted to contact his wife it would've been done already. It's time to stop the bleeding for yourself and move on.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> I know I am being soft on her. As far as I know, this is the only affair she had (and it came after a LONG time working with the OM). That being said, I will get myself checked.
> 
> Yes, I am slowly waking up.


All you know is that your wife betrayed you. You have no idea how many affairs she has had. The fact that you capitalized the LONG is a manner of excuseing her behavior. Stop that. It is absurd. Spouse do not get to bang other folks because they have know people a LONG time.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> I know this is very tough but from your last couple of posts it seems quite clear what the story is here. The marriage is over. You may feel like you're losing everything but it will be best to at least be able to walk away with your dignity and self respect. This is not a mutual breakup because of some differences you couldn't overcome. She decided to solve whatever problems you two had by sleeping with another man. Get a good lawyer and in light of everything let him handle things for you. I'm sorry but if you really wanted to contact his wife it would've been done already. It's time to stop the bleeding for yourself and move on.


I mostly agree with this. She essentially left the marriage when she had the affair. After I confronted her, she actually wanted to R, but I said I would only R on my terms, and she never agreed to my terms after weeks of talking. So now it does appear this marriage is over.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm not trying to be mean because I feel for you and your situation. Unfortunately, you're dealing with a I want to have my cake and eat it to situation. Read up on the 180 not to save what can't be saved but to put yourself in a better situation and a better direction. It's time to pick yourself up and better your life. It's sometimes hard to accept but in your situation the marriage is over. It's time to start living your life in such a matter.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I am just curious. What are the terms that she couldn't agree and instead chose to D? Are they something over the top? Does she show any remorse?


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> I am just curious. What are the terms that she couldn't agree and instead chose to D? Are they something over the top? Does she show any remorse?


She showed no remorse at first. After watching how much this hurt me for a few days (I could not sleep or eat for a whole week and rapidly lost weight), she showed some remorse. My terms was pretty simple: tell the whole truth, commit to make our marriage work, NC, and go through counseling. 

She is not enamored with the OM, so she easily agrees to NC. But the main thing for her is that she is not sure if she wants to stay in this marriage. So after a lot of talking and thinking, she decides it is better for her to be single (mom).


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I am sorry. Some WWs are cowardly and rather walk away than working thru R for years. When they start A, they rewrite martial history and check out of M in their mind. I've seen this again and again. And I must say such tendancy is more pronounced with WW than WH upon discovery.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> I am sorry. Some WWs are cowardly and rather walk away than working thru R for years. When they start A, they rewrite martial history and check out of M in their mind. I've seen this again and again. And I must say such tendancy is more pronounced with WW than WH upon discovery.


Going through the same situation myself and it's very true. History gets rewritten like for example how long they have been unhappy and things of that nature. They would rather just walk away no matter the cost than do the work necessary to repair the relationship. It makes zero sense.


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## HeartBrokenMan (Oct 24, 2011)

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> Going through the same situation myself and it's very true. History gets rewritten like for example how long they have been unhappy and things of that nature. They would rather just walk away no matter the cost than do the work necessary to repair the relationship. It makes zero sense.


Exactly. All she remembers is the bad stuff and how unhappy she was. I had a hard time convincing her otherwise, so I decided to just let go. I am ready to face any outcome.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> Exactly. All she remembers is the bad stuff and how unhappy she was. I had a hard time convincing her otherwise, so I decided to just let go. I am ready to face any outcome.


Have you taken a close look at the 180? That's what it's all about. Stop killing yourself and make the focus about you right now. If divorce occurs you come out a better person prepared for your new life. If your wife approaches you about the marriage you make your own choices at that point but you make it clear that it has to be on your terms.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

HeartBrokenMan said:


> Exactly. All she remembers is the bad stuff and how unhappy she was. I had a hard time convincing her otherwise, so I decided to just let go. I am ready to face any outcome.


My wife did the same thing. She sat there and told me that she was unhappy with our marriage, I asked her to give me examples of why ...she couldn't. Finally after thinking about it for a while she said that we never went anywhere or did anything. 

I asked her to give me some examples of times when we didn't go somewhere that she wanted to go. She sat there again thinking and she could only come up with one! I remember that time as well. We were invited to a last minute barbecue by some friends. I was in the middle of a home project that she had asked me to do and because it involved an exterior door I wanted to finish the project first. Basically I didn't want to leave our home open with no door while we were gone. She said "fine...forget it" and stomped off. Keep in mind this happened while she was in the middle of her affair. 

The truth is we were always going somewhere together and as a family...every other weekend to at least once a month we went on outings, trips or full on vacations...not including going out for dinners and the kids activities. We had a full and satisfying life.

She had villainized me and discounted our marriage. She subconsciously chose to block out all of the good times and to dwell on and exaggerate the few negative times....rewriting our history. This is how they justify their affairs.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

Decimated said:


> My wife did the same thing. She sat there and told me that she was unhappy with our marriage, I asked her to give me examples of why ...she couldn't. Finally after thinking about it for a while she said that we never went anywhere or did anything.
> 
> I asked her to give me some examples of times when we didn't go somewhere that she wanted to go. She sat there again thinking and she could only come up with one! I remember that time as well. We were invited to a last minute barbecue by some friends. I was in the middle of a home project that she had asked me to do and because it involved an exterior door I wanted to finish the project first. Basically I didn't want to leave our home open with no door while we were gone. She said "fine...forget it" and stomped off. Keep in mind this happened while she was in the middle of her affair.
> 
> ...



That's what it becomes. Complete justification for their behavior. They're usually problems in the marriage but nothing that any reasonable person would see as spelling the end.


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