# Is it worth it?



## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Husband asked for a separation in May of this year. 

Cheated on me 2 weeks after requesting this (1 month after our 4th anniversary).

June/July tells me he's sorry and feels he made a mistake and wants to come home. I tell him I need time to think about it. 

July/August - Indecisiveness on his part, then self sabotage and anger hinder our reconciliation. 

September - says he wants to come back home, moves back in, hears me talking to a person I went on a meet and greet with...Husband FLIPS OUT! Starts crying, saying "I Knew It", "Who is he?" "How long has this been going on?" 
The next day says he wants us to make it, and wants to work on our marriage. 

October - I find he's texting women who he met while we were "separated" late at night. 

2 nights ago we talked about everything...he's convinced that I had an affair years ago and now I know what it feels like. I feel like I've been accused of a crime I did not commit. Even though it may have LOOKED that way (ie ignoring, mean attitude, staying up on the computer all night)...I NEVER cheated. 

Ever since I our talk, he's walking around the house like he doesn't have to be nice to me, with an attitude, and thinks we are "even" now. I asked him how it would feel if I did what he did to me, and his reply is "you already have" and I forgave you. Now YOU know how it feels. I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth it? He doesn't seem to see the value in me and I'm scared when he gets deployed again in February he'll cheat again. 

How do I convince him that I've never hurt him the way he has me, and to value me a little more before I give up and walk away for good?


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Tell your husband that it's important to you that he know the truth, that you can't have him think that you have done something you haven't. 
Offer a lie detector test so he can set him mind at ease before he goes off on duty again.......


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

ldbg102 said:


> Husband asked for a separation in May of this year.
> 
> Cheated on me 2 weeks after requesting this (1 month after our 4th anniversary).
> 
> ...


Your husband’s projecting a part of himself he doesn’t like about himself onto you. He cheated, he doesn’t like that bit about himself so he says you are a cheater. It’s called psychological projection.

Psychological projection is a dysfunctional coping mechanism. Instead of owning up to his own bad behaviour and taking the consequences of that on the chin, he negates that bad behaviour by projecting the same bad behaviour onto you. It is an exceedingly dysfunctional and immature way of not owning up to and accepting the consequences of his “bad side”. It’s almost like to him that he now has licence to cheat.

For those of us on the receiving end of psychological projection it can make us feel like we are a little crazy. Be very careful if you stay with him or you may end up with loosing your self identity and have an identity crisis. You may even be feeling that way now. It can get a lot worse.

By the way. You will never be able to convince him that you haven’t cheated.

Bob


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

jessi said:


> Tell your husband that it's important to you that he know the truth, that you can't have him think that you have done something you haven't.
> Offer a lie detector test so he can set him mind at ease before he goes off on duty again.......



I have offered this to him and he said it's not important now because he's "over it".

I even offered to let him call my closest male friend (who he's been jealous of since we met) and ask him ANY questions about our relationship to confirm that we hardly speak/see eachother and there has NEVER been any romantic relationship between us. He says "You've probably just coached him into saying what you want him to, so it doesn't matter"

Last night I told him that I feel like I've been convicted of MURDER and I am trying to plead my case to the jury/judge and no one will believe me. And I don't think it's fair that he's accusing me of something I didn't do. He said "Ok" and that was it. 

I did explain to him that what he did hurt me deeply and that I will need his help getting over it and he agreed. But I just have a feeling that in the back of his mind he is still plotting his revenge or still untrusting of "ME".


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Yesterday I decided to check his e-mail to see if he's found a new way of contacting people.

In his trash can I found a few emails that he sent to the women he slept with while we were "separated". 

"I gues we both r in the same boat when it comes to affairs with the heart...I need you here with me cause it seems like I'm looking in these other women what I found in u. I miss u so much and it sucks that I can't hold u. I miss my queen. I called u cause I was feeling bad about myself and I needed some love in my ear. ...I'll call again when I can ...love u"

This was sent after he came back into the house saying he wanted to work our marriage. 

The girl lives in Germany now and she went back to her boyfriend/husband. I did speak with her and she told me that he knows she's with someone and they are friends and they have no plans on being together. But THAT doesn't sound like a friends e-mail to me. It sounds like he was falling or DID fall for her. 

Fast forward a few days and THIS is what I found in the trash. 
"I figured that's what happened? She went through my wallet and found the calling card and called you...I'm sorry. What did she say and when? And y can't I contact you anymore?"

Then I told him I that I talked to her and THIS was in the trash
"Ok she told me everything, everything you guys talked about. I understand and I'm sorry too. Goodbye."


What do you make of this?

I confronted him about it and asked him if he loved her and if he did then I need to step aside and let him folllow his heart. He laughed and said "I already told you I didn't love that girl and that I love YOU...but you won't hear that." 

I'm so confused. I don't believe he loves me anymore and maybe he really wanted to be with this woman. Why should I even bother showering him with the affection he wants/needs when he was willing to give it away to someone else? 

I think if she hadn't moved to Germany he would have left me for good for her.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

I wanted to note that. Those emails were dated Sept. 5 -9th

The 9th is when we had our HUGE blow out because someone that I went out with called me and he bursted in to tears and said "I knew it", "Who is he?" "How long?" and all night tried to get me to decide between him and this other guy(who I went out to eat with, NOTHING MAJOR and he(Husband) was the one who suggested I see what's out there). 

I'm confused. If he was "in love" with this woman, why did he take it sooooo hard when he found that someone else was interested in me? If he loves the way this woman made him feel and was sending her these semi loving/some nasty/some talking about how she's going back to her boyfriend/husband....then WHY is he trying to get me to decide what we are going to be.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

I don't see where he's had anymore contact with her since Sept. 9th. 

I have access to his phone records (and he knows), but he doesn't know about the e-mail access yet. I'm trying to gather evidence or protect myself in case he starts something up again. 

Could he really be over her? I understand he liked her attention and I asked him SEVERAL times since this whole thing went down, if he loved her or not. Everytime he's told me "NO, she was a friend who listened to me and made me feel like I was important and valued"........

If that's all it was, then why did he say "I love u" in one of his messages. The rest of the messages were trying to get her to send dirty pictures or talking about how much he missed her and wanted to hold her. 

I'm so confused. :-( Does he love me or not?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I can't answer that for you honey. It sounds almost like he felt "entitled" to his affair. Mine did too, and when I found out ( mind you it was 18 months later) and I put on that tight dress and hooker heels, he found out real quick he wasn't the only one that could walk out and find someone to f*** lol. I didn't get out the door because he was so upset. It isn't that they want you, but more like they don't want anyone else to have you sometimes. Or it might not be that in particular, but that is how it feels to us.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Right!? That's what I don't understand?

If YOU don't want me and you want to be with someone else, or you "love" them....why pretend that you want to be with me? 

He's told his other Army buddy that he "Loves me so much, she's my heart and I messed up." and then went out to buy me flowers. His friend told on him when they showed up to the house, saying that when the two of them talk, he's so mushy about me and telling him how much he loves me....but when he gets around me he acts arrogant and entitled. And it doesn't make me want to "love on him" like he's been seeking. 

I KNOW for a fact that if this girl had spent a year with him she would think he was INSANE. He just does things different from ANYONE I know. He talks a good game, as he did to me when we first met, but after a year I know any other woman would be like "Yeaahh this isn't going to work". 

Every woman that I talked to that he has made friends with during our separation said very clearly and without hesitation "His NOT what I'm looking for and I am NOT interested in him like that AT ALL." 

I think what he wants is attention. 

Last night he told me he needs extra attention and he believes that I'm not attracted to him.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Okay, so we know one big thing about him. He likes having his ego stroked and he doesn't think you like doing it. Do you stroke his ego? Not that you have had much reason to lately, but did you before the SHTF?? ( I am guilty of not doing this much at times BTW)

Has anyone asked you to look up the Five love languages yet? I googled it and had my H pick out which of the 5 was most important to him, and I showed him which was mine. Just knowing what the other needed more of kind offset the uncertainty. Do you think he would do this with you??

As for what he says, none of it every makes any logical sense. Think about it. My H told me he didn't tell me about his affair to protect me. Really?? Who does that protect? Him and the skank, thats who. But if you ask anyone here, they will tell you that a lot of talk doesn't make sense after things like this.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

It's called having your cake and eating it too. He wants you and her.
AFEH (Bob) is a wise wise wise man. He is spot on with "projection". Your husband is cheating so naturally since he can be so deceptive, he assumes you are too. He literally has convinced himself that you did and therefore his actions are okay and justified. It's bull****. 
He doesn't need extra attention. He needs therapy in a big way. You can spend your life trying to make him feel good, massage his ego and prop him up and it is a bottomless pit of despair. It is also the sign of somebody who is broken and has a total sense of entitlement. "You weren't there for me so I cheated, You didn't tell me I look good today, so I cheated. You didn't want to have sex 2 nights ago, so I cheated". Until he takes a hard look in the mirror and fixs HIM, you are in for a world of neediness, excuses and blameshifting.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

I honestly don't think he knows what he wants. 

He said he was sure in his head (at one point) that he did not want to continue our marriage because "I" was secretive and neglectful of him. It was hard to swallow, but he was right about that. I DID mistreat him and ignore him (because he was annoying and drinking a lot) and I spent more time complaining about him to my friends(via facebook,email, texting) than I did communicating with him, because I had had enough of his behavior and I shut down from him. 

He said he felt like he'd been trying to bring this to my attention for a while and he had had enough and wanted out. I think spending time with this girl who gave him what I wasn't help push him in that direction. The thing is...I had been trying to tell him for a long time that his drinking was affecting me and he didn't do anything about it either, so that's when I started to pull away. He acknowledges this and says it's probably a contributing factor in our marriage. It seems like we've identified a lot of our problems and breakdowns in communication, but it doesn't seem to be helping me move on and get over this EA that developed into a PA (one time). 

I'm just confused about how he could be SO DEEPLY HURT by someone contacting ME, when he was sending this woman "love notes" days before it happened.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Your situation sounds so much like mine its mind boggling. My H came back from Iraq, drank every night he could to the point of passing out on the couch, screamed at me every day when he got home from work, blamed everything on me that happened no matter how ridiculous, so I retreated and did my best to avoid him. Shut down. Stopped trying.

I am not in any way saying you OWE it to him to try and fix it, but I am saying that it could be possible if you want it. My H went off to school where the little girl there knew nothing about him, not about his 4 kids, not about his drinking and verbal abuse and made him feel like gold. I see how he fell in. Granted I still know it was wrong and that if we had both been a bit wiser things could have been prevented, but hindsight is 20/20.

Why it bothered him? Because he made you out to be this horrible woman who treated him like garbage, so he was thinking that no one would ever want you, poor him. Now he is seeing himself for who he truly is and he doesn't like it. Now he sees that you can find someone else to love you. And he doesn't like it, because you should be a bitter old woman surrounded by cats LOL.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

YES YES YES DawnD!! That's exactly what happened. As soon as my H came back he was NOT the same man who left. And I begged him to see counseling and he told me "I'm fine." I wish I had forced him to go, or used the resources that I know now to get him some help. All I did was shut down and stay out of his way and I stopped showing him that attention that I use to. I KNOW I made a lot of mistakes and I guess that's why he keeps saying "Why do you care NOW!? When I was crying for you attention you didn't care." - I guess because I was feeling the same way and didn't understand why he wasn't hearing MY cries for my sweet husband to return to me. 

I guess part of me now DOES feel like I should give him the attention that I denied him for almost 2 years, but I'm wondering if it comes too late. Now that I've seen these emails I wonder how deep his love really is for me or is he using me for a place to stay until he deploys. 

I asked him "Do you love me?" - YES , "Do you want to be married" - YES I DO, and I only want to be married to you. "Do you want to work on fixing our marriage" - I'm taking it one day at a time. 

I'm trying to be patient, but I feel like since HE is the one that messed up, HE should be the one putting in the MOST work. He doesn't seem to want to do that (sort of). 

I cooked for him yesterday while he was at the gym. He came home and said "You don't have to cook for me anymore I don't want to waste your time or force you to do something you don't want to do." --- i responded "I just wanted to do something nice for you" --- so he ate the food and told me it was delicious. ---we talked(or rather I asked questions that he wasn't in the mood to answer) and finally he stood up and kissed me and said "Thank you for loving me is there anything I can do for you?" ...ARGH!! Why do I still feel so blah with him!?!? My heart says "Stop it!" but my head says "Don't give in"


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

You have to remember that when they come back from deployments they are in their own place. The depression ( which my husband now admits to the possibility that he had PTSD) allows them to be mean creatures, all the while blaming it on those they love the most. Us. It isn't fair and it isn't nice. But when I look in my heart, I know that this did play SOME of the role in this. Mind you, he made the choices he made, but I also had to look hard to remember the past and see it for what it was.

I bet if you sat down and talked about how he was when he got back, you would have to eerily different stories to tell. That's where it begins. When we sat down, its almost like my husband just realized RIGHT THEN what he was and what he did to me. He went as far as to blame my sons autism on me. Yeah, he did. 

BUT I also had to come to grips that when I should have pushed him into counseling, I hid. I stayed away and "hoped" that it would get better by itself. It didn't, it got craptons worse, and then he cheated. 18 months later when I found out, he had just put me through a year of " I don't love you" and " I think I want out" and whatnot before I even knew he cheated. I feel you on this place you are in.

What needs to happen is that you both sit down and look over those love languages. Talk about what you were missing from each other, and start doing them without expecting much in return. You both still love each other, now its just the fact of showing it. I am not telling you to go nuts and be up his butt 24/7, but if you do think you want this to work, start with paying more attention and showing him that you want to be there. If he doesn't know YOU want to be there, he won't bother.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

He hasn't, that I know of, (he doesn't know I have his email pswd) contacted this girl in over a month. Should I still be worried. 
I understand that we are BOTH trying to take our time, but it seems like we get frustrated with each other. It seems like, when I'm ready to talk, he won't answer the questions or he'll say "All you do is interrigate me or try to set me up", but when HE has something to say he expects an answer. Or he'll hear my phone notify and he'll say "WHO'S TEXTING YOU!?!!" and expect me talk about it. And it seems like he only shows me A LOT of attention when he wants sex, which is EVERY NIGHT. "

Also, to add to our troubles. I just found out I'm pregnant and before this nonsense happened we had been trying. 

Now he says he doesn't think it's a good time to have another baby and he isn't financially ready to take care of one and he doesn't want the baby. *sigh*....how can he love me if he says things like this? ***note*** - he is NOT forcing me to get rid of the baby. He said it's my decision, but he doesn't think it's a good idea. 

He said "I don't think it's fair for me to be over there any you have to take care of the baby for a year by yourself and I don't think you're going to be able to take care of 3 kids by yourself (We have 2 already- one mine, one ours).

Even though i agree we aren't in a good position to bring a child into our situation I just can't believe the man who's begged me for a big family for years, who just a MONTH ago told his friends IN FRONT OF ME the he wants more children with me....just told me on the same night that I confronted him about the texting and asked him if he wanted to be married ..said he only wants children with ME...say this?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

He isn't so hurt that you were talking to someone else. He is angry that somebody else got the ego strokes from you that he felt HE deserved. If his marriage was so important to him, he wouldn't be waffling between the two of you. He would be right by your side, no question. 
Please, please, please stop blaming yourself, honey! You didn't stop loving him. He stopped loving himself. Going on FB and chat rooms doesn't mean you stopped loving him. You were trying to cope with a bad situation. His drinking means he checked out. Get drunk, to hell with everything else. He checked out and now is pointing fingers for his behavior. It is called blameshifting. Yes, it is actually a word. 
I stand by what I wrote earlier. He needs counseling either alone or with you.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

That is where everything needs to come out in the open. I'll show you mine, you show me yours. This he may or may not be receptive to. My H and I have an agreement that we both have each others passwords to everything ( even his AKO). Some people don't go that far, its really up to the couple. You have to rebuild that trust. Honestly, I would ask him if he would be willing to go to counseling, or even the chaplain to learn how to communicate better. 

It sounds like one of you is going to have to jump in first, it might have to be you. I totally understand your feelings of "hey, you screwed up you should be putting more work in" but sometimes if they don't know what they are working for then it doesn't happen. If he doesn't think you are going to forgive him or stay, he won't bother at all. 

I am gonna guess he is like me, where physical touch is his first and foremost need. Mine is too. I want to be touched a lot, sexually and non sexually. I want hugs, kisses, a** slaps LOL, all that good stuff. What is your top need from him??

The pregnancy issue is a whole other beast. That I will certainly leave to someone else, as I am not a good person to deal with that LOL. I have two and wonder if they are demon spawn LOL. I guess I just wouldn't want the responsibility of counseling anyone on a life, you know. Maybe someone here is more experienced in these areas than I am.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

DawnD said:


> You have to remember that when they come back from deployments they are in their own place. The depression ( which my husband now admits to the possibility that he had PTSD) allows them to be mean creatures, all the while blaming it on those they love the most. Us. It isn't fair and it isn't nice. But when I look in my heart, I know that this did play SOME of the role in this. Mind you, he made the choices he made, but I also had to look hard to remember the past and see it for what it was.
> 
> I bet if you sat down and talked about how he was when he got back, you would have to eerily different stories to tell. That's where it begins. When we sat down, its almost like my husband just realized RIGHT THEN what he was and what he did to me. He went as far as to blame my sons autism on me. Yeah, he did.
> 
> ...



DawnD, you are so spot on. That's how our situation is. I want to trust him again, and my mother says I should just give up, but part of me doesn't want to, because I remember good times and how much we really did love eachother at one point. It's just hard for me to accept that he typed those things over a month ago, but "NOW" he wants to work on things? 

After he blew up over the guy calling me, he texted me over and over, tried to talk about the good times, and telling me he understood why I was being distant and that I had a reason too (even though now he seems to think that I DON'T have a reason), and asking me if I am still his and telling me "I want us to make it." How is it that he changed his feelings from telling this girl "I miss you, I wish you were here with me...I need loving in my ear" to "I want us to work" ????

CONFUSING HE IS!!!!


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Part of the openness in the email passwords and all that is to agree that neither of you are contacting OM/OW outside of your marriage. Sit down and talk about what you both want in boundaries. I want you to write a No Contact letter to the OW, in which case he might tell you he wants to see your texts or something, which is fine. Be open, end all contact with other people that are "improperly involved" I guess I will say and be open and clear about expectations. I will not stay if you continue to contact so and so. I will not stay if you cheat again. I refuse to be spoken to like >>>>>>. You get the drift.

I can't speak for him and his attachment to the OW, but most people that are on here who have cheated will tell you that the OW is like a drug. She lifts him up and makes him feel good so he THINKS he loves her. He doesn't love her. He got wrapped up in it, but he doesn't. They were just words. What you want from him are words and actions that match, showing you that he truly does love you.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Oh my Lord.....honey GIANT HUGS TO YOU!! I am going to give you some tough love here:
1. No contact means no contact. That means he is willing and able to show you his phone, text messages, everything. Open and honest.
2. He cheated and he should have zero expectation of trust from you. 
3. This is no longer his game. He brought another player in to the mix and he doesn't get a say so in what happens anymore. You want answers, he answers them. Period.
4. He needs to work on himself and figure out why this happened in the first place. Nobody and I mean nobody forces another person to cheat. It is a choice and a calculated one at that. 
5. He needs to show true remorse. I don't mean tears but with solid action. A remorseful person will spend their time making certain that the other partner feels safe, secure and loved through ACTION. He can tell you he loves you until the cows come home but what do his actions show? Is he holding you when you cry? Is is talking with you and comforting you? Words vs. Actions.

You are pregnant now. Congratulations on baby!!!! This is a difficult time for sure as any pregnancy is hard but yours is a little different. Him putting the onus of you for this baby is really ****ty in my mind. Perhaps now is the time to do some real soul searching and figure out if you really want him in your life anymore. You sound like a really awesome person. He doesn't. Sorry, just my opinion.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Brennan -- Am I coming off as "accusatory" in my posts, like I am accusing her of making him cheat?? I am just checking, sometimes my posts sound like that LOL. 

Brennan is completely correct in that you are not to blame for his cheating. But we all have to understand our part in the breakdown of the marriage. The choice to cheat lay on the one who did.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

That's what the difficult part is. I asked him to cut contact with her and write the letter and he said "There's no need to now, you did that for me...(because I contacted her)." Personally, I think she cut off contact with HIM (ie..the email where he responds "And y can't I contact you anymore" "Ok I understand and I'm sorry too, goodbye" 

He's being difficult when it comes to what HE has to do. I did tell him that I need his cooperation, and he said "He'd do everything he could" , but so far it's just been curbing his attitude towards me.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

It might be letting him know that the no contact letter is the first step he needs to take in correcting this mess. My H never did one, but with how late I found out there really wasn't a need to. She very well could have ended it.

If you both sit down and talk about what you both need to do, it shouldn't be too awfully terrible. I told my husband about us both being completely open with stuff, he mentioned that I needed to show him more attention/ego stroking. I mentioned I needed him to SHOW me he wanted to be with me and only me, and quote honestly I got stuck on how he could do that, because that was his first question. I think I even came on here and asked it. But what it boiled down to was he had to be there to help me heal. If I needed to cry, he needed to hold me and tell me he loved me, etc, etc. 

Words have to match actions, and that goes for both of you. Me and my H too, I could say I loved him but if I was indeed neglecting to do the things he needed, he needed to feel free to let me know hey, I need some attention. He got to a point where he didn't know what to do, so he did nothing. Do you think your H might be there??


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Dawn,
You have NEVER come off as accusatory in your posts. I think you are very understanding and come off as very intelligent. Infidelity to me is the worst crime in marriage. Actually I think it should be a crime, legally. I have watched my dear friend literally go insane because of it. Last weekend she was hospitalized for overdosing on Valium. She was found by her 13 year old son in a pool of sweat, curled up next to the toilet, drooling and bloody from falling out of the shower. This is 3 years after her divorce. She is truly a husk of what she used to be, a former NFL cheerleader, mom, business owner, mentor to children and all around amazing human being. That is also why I am so strong about ground rules. She didn't lay them out and continued to be gaslighted, blameshifted and bull****ted for 4 years. What drove her to the point she is at now, is that she literally believed his lies, deceit and bull****. He had her believe she was crazy for thinking he was cheating and eventually she thought she was. Now she probably is.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Brennan -- I probably only scratched the surface of the pain your friend felt and it blew my mind, I can't imagine. My H had me believing for about 3 years that everything that was bad was my fault LOL. After walking out of that mess into finding out he cheated, I can imagine why your friend would be so destroyed. 

I am not intelligent at all, but I am in college to make myself less dumb LOL:rofl:


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

DawnD said:


> It might be letting him know that the no contact letter is the first step he needs to take in correcting this mess. My H never did one, but with how late I found out there really wasn't a need to. She very well could have ended it.
> 
> If you both sit down and talk about what you both need to do, it shouldn't be too awfully terrible. I told my husband about us both being completely open with stuff, he mentioned that I needed to show him more attention/ego stroking. I mentioned I needed him to SHOW me he wanted to be with me and only me, and quote honestly I got stuck on how he could do that, because that was his first question. I think I even came on here and asked it. But what it boiled down to was he had to be there to help me heal. If I needed to cry, he needed to hold me and tell me he loved me, etc, etc.
> 
> Words have to match actions, and that goes for both of you. Me and my H too, I could say I loved him but if I was indeed neglecting to do the things he needed, he needed to feel free to let me know hey, I need some attention. He got to a point where he didn't know what to do, so he did nothing. Do you think your H might be there??



I've tried telling him that we need to be open and he just sits there quietly listening with no input. When I ask him his opinion or how he feels he doesn't want to talk, or says I'm interigating him, or says rebels against my ideas. The only thing I've been able to get him to do is to say "Ok" when I told him that I need his help if I'm going to get over this. 

Last night when I tried to talk about how he felt about this girl, he said "Here you go again, I don't know how many times I need to say it to you. But you believe whatever you want. I told you I didn't love that girl." 

Today he called and asked "What are we doing tonight" and I suggested the movies and he said "Ok, you find out what and where and let me know" 

Maybe I shouldn't be so pushy? Maybe I should take it one day at a time like him. But I morn for the love we once had that is now tarnished. I would have have bragged that we were PERFECT compared to my friends and other relationships I've seen. We use to communicate so well. It was almost like he was connected to me. I remembering feeling SO BAD at work one day that I ran into the filing room to cry and he called me almost minutes later and said "Are you ok? I have this feeling that I needed to call you and check on you. Is everything alright?" My JAW DROPPED. <-- I MISS THAT MAN!!! 

I've already stated what I needed to him and my "attitude" towards him has changed. I'm not as angry and mean to him as I use to be...but I guess he's worried that if he "opens up" I'm going to go crazy and start an argument because that's "what I use to do in the past" when he would try to tell me how HE was feeling about something that HE didn't like or our marriage issues. He says I flip flop too much and that's why he's not answering my questions, because I'll "use it against him later".


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Ldbg,
There is a line in the sand. You draw it. You tell him your ground rules and do not back down. He crosses that line, you are done. Period. It is hard, I know. Trust me, I know. If you do not back up that line he will continue to cross it again and again. 

There is a wonderful website out their called Surviving Infidelity. It really is amazing. There is a wonderful saying there: Each person in the marriage is 50% responsible. The person who makes a choice to go out and cheat is 100% responsible. It was a choice.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

DawnD,
Best of luck to you in your college goals!! Rock on.
Please do bear in mind that college doesn't make intelligence. You are smart already. Your posts prove it. You are wise beyond your years. Life can often be the best teacher.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

I did draw the line in the sand, but he was so offended by my methods of finding out that he tried to turn it around on me...it's only been a few days since I told him that I knew about the messages and I'm trying not to be TOO PUSHY, because I know it will set ME off and then I can get pretty evil myself. So just so I grow for me, I'm trying not to be boss him around like I use to do and let him talk to me. He said he misses being able to talk to me, but now when I try to talk to him he says all I want to talk about is "THAT" and he's trying to move past it. I told him that I'm going to have more questions because I need to know these things to help me heal. He didn't have much to say to that. 

But TRUST ME, if I find out he's still contacting this woman...I'm out. I love him and I always will and I'd hate to do that to him while he's overseas and in a stressful situation, but if he starts this crap again, he obviously doesn't care. So I'm fully prepared now that I know I can live without him....to move on if he can't prove to me that I'm all he needs. And I DID tell him that. I said "I need to know that I'm enough for you and he said "Ok..." , so even if he hasn't replied, HE KNOWS what I want and what I need.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Okay, so he is attempting to communicate with you SOME. The hard part about that is trying to validate your spouses comments. He said he is scared to comment because you might use it against him like you used to. Reply to this. You know what, you are completely right about that. I need to work on it. But I also need you to work on.........

It helped my H if I could have a time cap. Like only asking him a couple of things every couple of days. I guess I can see how being asked things every day about something you aren't necessarily proud of could be too much. I don't really sympathize with it, but I can see it LOL. 

If he says all you want to talk about is "THAT" then tell him no, you want to talk about "US". Tell him that when you tell him things, you need him to respond to you that he understands. My H put me through this once, but I will not do it again. I am sure your sentiments are the same. And I have reiterated that to him several times. Because I need to say it and I need to know he heard it and understood. 

I still would recommend seeing a chaplain, or using militaryoncesource.com and getting an emergency referral for a counselor just to help you guys start talking productively.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Are you going to back up the line in the sand? Drawing a line means nothing if you don't back it up.

((GIANT HUGS))


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Brennan said:


> Are you going to back up the line in the sand? Drawing a line means nothing if you don't back it up.
> 
> ((GIANT HUGS))




Very true also. An empty threat is just that, and will be treated as such. If you are going to draw your line, you have to be able to act on it. I don't know how you feel about it, but when I found out and decided to try to work on it, my first phrase was "If I ever find anything out like this again, your a** is out on the street." I never offered to leave the house, I offered to kick him out. You have kids, you need to be in the house. He can go if it comes down to it.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Yes if he does this again, I'm gone. If that's what you mean. 

I'd rather be alone and have the love of my children than what I'm going through right now. At one point I told him I wish he had died because it would have been easier and because at least I could have lived on with the lie that he only loved ME and I could have moved on believing that. 

Now I know what he's capable of and it stings so much more.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I know honey. And you think you want things the way they used to be, but you DON'T. You want a better marriage filled with love and respect. How it used to be is what it is now. You want it better. 

I didn't think my H would ever do that to me either, and after our rough patch passed I thought "wow, we survived it and pulled together". About 5 months later I found out about the affair. Soul crushing. But things can be better if both of you want it. Notice I said both of you. He is going to have to work with you and do a lot of things to get you guys back to okay. Will he go to a counselor with you?


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

DawnD said:


> Very true also. An empty threat is just that, and will be treated as such. If you are going to draw your line, you have to be able to act on it. I don't know how you feel about it, but when I found out and decided to try to work on it, my first phrase was "If I ever find anything out like this again, your a** is out on the street." I never offered to leave the house, I offered to kick him out. You have kids, you need to be in the house. He can go if it comes down to it.




Oh I plan on telling him that tonight. But maybe I have been a bit of a wuss. When I confronted him about the texting I told him if it's like that then just go and his response was "Fine if that's what you want." I told him "That's not what I WANT, I want you to do what you said you would do and that's work on our marriage. Don't leave to be spiteful, leave because I'm not who you want." ...To which he came back in the house and sat on the couch and tried to turn things around on me, and I just shot down all his anger and told him that when he was really ready to talk to me I'd be more than willing. The next day he seemed a bit more open, and then more on the next day. 

That's why I'm wondering if not being so pushy might be a better idea. I've already stated what my needs are and what I need from him. So far, NO TEXTS to anyone or phone calls or emails. 

Buuut, when I get home he is like "Did you check my records today?! :-D" almost sarcastically. So I just say "Sure" and keep it moving. LOL!


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

DawnD said:


> I didn't think my H would ever do that to me either, and after our rough patch passed I thought "wow, we survived it and pulled together". About 5 months later I found out about the affair. Soul crushing. But things can be better if both of you want it. Notice I said both of you. He is going to have to work with you and do a lot of things to get you guys back to okay. Will he go to a counselor with you?


He suggested we go in August and schedule for September...but now I'm questioning that because of the old emails I found. He was still chatting her up in August/September....but then again I was self sabatoging myself and told him to FORGET THE COUNSELING because I knew he was still talking to people, because his attention was NOT on me like it should have been.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Also, he is still doing things VERY separate. He won't give me his bank account information (because of bad money management on my part in the past) and he's set up an account for me to get money from him that he transfers his money into. 

He said that when he goes overseas he's going to use the money that he gets to clear our credit up and he "won't let me bring us down again" because of my poor choices when it came to our finances and he'll only be sending home a set amount of money. 

This is another red flag. But should I be taking it day by day and just improving flaws of my own to show him I'm more responsible with money or should I be offended? Or should I demand that he give me his bank account info?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I am not sure how long ago the bad judgement was made with money, but at this point I would ask him to go to the free financial counselors on post with you, make a budget and make a rough one for when he deploys also. Talk about where you want money and how much you want where. Then talk with your Marriage counselor about how trust goes both ways and he needs to trust you with the money again. Make it to where he can also view it and agree that if your spending gets out of control or you do not uphold the agreement that you made ( unless there was an emergency) that he will then kick his plan into action, and the amount he gives you access to needs to be discussed beforehand. Does that make sense or did I just talk in a circle??


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Oops, and no I wouldn't take it too personally. I recommended that to a lot of soldiers that I had when I was still in when their wives had a hard time budgeting and were putting them farther in the hole while deployed. He probably heard it from a superior.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Now he's talking like he wants the baby...this weekend he tried to take me out but we had a few bumps in that process. We ended up going to my College Homecoming and had a pretty good time. 

At first when we went out he was acting very rude and not looking at me when I talked or engaging in the conversation at all. Almost like he didn't want to be there with me. He got frustrated when I pointed this out and was even more rude. Saying I was insecure and that I always ruin our nights out. I didn't let it get to me too bad, but I told him..."How am I suppose to get to know you again, if you won't even talk to me? How am I suppose to enjoy your company or vice versa if you can't even look or talk to me when we are out." 

The next morning (Homecoming) I got up and he wanted to "talk" and I just listened and kept doing my morning routine. Then he said "So what do YOU want to talk about?" and I replied "Don't worry about it, you don't HAVE to talk to me. I'd rather it be something you want to do, I'm sorry I pressured you into engaging me. TRUST ME, I'm not worried about it." Then I laughed and sprinted out of the house to watch the parade. 

He comes down the street and asks me if I wanted to go with him to Homecoming and I said "Sure!". So we went and had a good time. Again, he brought up how I don't seem to "Like him" and that I don't "flirt" with him. I'm having a hard time remembering how I use to flirt with him. I just remember us talking a lot and that made me feel important so I probably touched him a lot. 

Anyway, yesterday he was looking at a little girl and said "Don't let the baby leave the house looking crazy like that (the little girls hair was everywhere)" and I was like "Huh?" because our son was in the back of the car looking as cute as ever. Then he said "The new baby...if we have a girl, don't let her go out of the house with her hair looking crazy like that...LOL". I know I probably looked at him crazy, and he said "Do you want to have the baby?" and smiled. I just smiled back and told him to drive. 

So yesterday we watched football and it was uneventful as far as the days go, but when we got home I made sure I rubbed his face and hair and back (he REALLY likes that and I use to do it a lot). This seem to relax him and put him in a good mood. 

This morning I checked his phone (he left it unlocked downstairs in the kitchen) and the pictures of the other women that I saw months ago are gone. There are only pictures of me and our son. He does still have the woman who he "cheated" with phone number in there, but I checked the phone records and it goes back a while and there was no calls. No emails. No texts. 

One last thing. While he watched the SF Giants and Phillies game on Saturday night, I went upstairs to watch Dexter. He sends me a text message saying "Tell your 'friend' I said hi....and thanks for keeping it warm for me." ..... WTF is THAT suppose to mean!? I never slept with ANYONE and I barely went out on dates/meet and greet (only 2). 

Then last night while we were watching Robin Hood (save your time horrible movie) he said the same thing because a girlfriend of mine texted me. I asked him what he was talking about and he said "Your BOYFRIEND"...I said "I don't have a boyfriend" and he just laughed. He's been telling me that he's doesn't care what I do because I've already "hurt him" and his actions have been showing that he doesn't really care that much...but I'm wondering if the questioning about my "boyfriend" is him showing his vulnerability again?

When he thought he had something to lose he treated me like a precious gem. Since this whole thing happened he hasn't, now I'm starting to see trickles of that. Or am I jumping the gun?


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

DawnD said:


> I am not sure how long ago the bad judgement was made with money, but at this point I would ask him to go to the free financial counselors on post with you, make a budget and make a rough one for when he deploys also. Talk about where you want money and how much you want where. Then talk with your Marriage counselor about how trust goes both ways and he needs to trust you with the money again. Make it to where he can also view it and agree that if your spending gets out of control or you do not uphold the agreement that you made ( unless there was an emergency) that he will then kick his plan into action, and the amount he gives you access to needs to be discussed beforehand. Does that make sense or did I just talk in a circle??



I'm being told by friends that I should file for support before he leaves for overseas otherwise he could file for divorce or whatever he plans to do over there (I still don't trust him) and I would be helpless. 

Is there a way to go about this without starting a sh** storm?


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

I think after he told me I was "insecure" and the next day I acted like I didn't care and decided I was going to go out and enjoy the morning parade and saying "TRUST ME, I don't care anymore" may have struck a cord. I'm not sure. He's starting to show vulnerability (I think)...by asking me about my "boyfriend" all the time and wanting to check my phone, which I've given him every time he asks. However, when I ask for him he says "No" and I act as if I don't care. He tried to hand it to me after wards, or tilt the screen where I can see what he's doing, but I just ignore it. 

I'm confused on how to proceed. It seems like when I act like I don't care he acts more interested, but when I did this before he started to feel "neglected" and it lead to someone showing him the attention he "needed".


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## avenrandom (Sep 13, 2010)

ldbg102 said:


> Then last night while we were watching Robin Hood (save your time horrible movie) he said the same thing because a girlfriend of mine texted me. I asked him what he was talking about and he said "Your BOYFRIEND"...I said "I don't have a boyfriend" and he just laughed.


These comments stem from him grasping for reassurance that he feels like he isn't getting. The thought entered his head, and instead of a) communicating in an adult manner or b) just dropping it, he chose the middle ground.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell him that if he wants to stay married, he needs to find $2000, and you and he will both go to a marriage builders weekend where you will both learn how to treat each other with love, dignity, and respect. Otherwise, you won't make it.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Turnera has a great thought, and if you can rattle that money up, great idea to go for it. If not, then you are going to have to find other means.

He is insecure, and he does not want to go first, risk being vulnerable to you, but when you do go first he tends to take advantage of it. Sooooo, here is my suggestion. Sit down and make an arrangement that he can see your phone, you can see his. Not one way, it has to go both ways. Talk about email passwords etc. Ask about seeing a chaplain or doing the militaryonesource counseling honey. Its quick and can be effective. You won't be able to make him realize how he is acting, he doesn't want to hear it from you. A third party may be the only way. ( On an off note, I made sure our counselor was a man so I didn't hear "of course SHE's on YOUR side LOL) We never want to hear criticism from the one we love, we tend to be defensive and blame it all on the other. A third party can surely help clear the fog ( for both of you even) and help you see what you need to get to work on. Even though you may know a lot of it, it will still help to have someone else bring it to light. A counselor is not going to sit there and take sides ( a good one won't at least) to try and beat the other spouse down, they will hopefully show you how to communicate and sort out your feelings. 

As for the money, that side of it is tricky, I would see legal LOL


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## anonymus (Sep 21, 2010)

I felt like I was reading my own story. Yours closely parallels with mine. My H is just like your husband. Basically I am tired of his cold warm behaviour. He is sometimes outright mean and accuses me of everything. He wont even take responsibility for his actions or his affair. His commitment is questionable and he acts as if he could care less how I feel. It all sucks...


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Yesterday,

Again talking to me about the baby...

I came home from work and he was right there at the door waiting for me. This is the first time he's done that since he came back. He was smiling and said "Heey baby! Hey look Mommy's home!(talking to our son)" 

Then he told me that I got a bill that was due immediately. I told him I would call to get an extension and he said "No let's just pay it"....I said "I can't right now, I have to pay rent, pay for the car, pay for the insurance and pay for this 'doctor's appointment'." 

He looked at me and said "No...don't do it. Let's have the baby. Don't you want to have any other baby? Let's have a baby." 

I just smiled at him and said "We'll talk when you get back from the gym" ...........I didn't talk about it again last night. Still thinking. I haven't seen enough "change" to believe he's ready to grow his family. 

Then this morning he gets up with me and his mood is good (we goofed off last night before bed, teasing each other and laughing) and he came into the kitchen said "I've come to the conclusion that 'If you're nice to me, I'm nice to you'. I just giggled, said "Ok"...and he said "Goodbye you guys, have a good day" ...it sounded sincere. 

Hopefully he'll continue to be nice, I think what's made the difference is that I'm not letting it bother me as much anymore...I talked to my sister yesterday and she said "If you love him, if you REALLY love him, you'll want him to be happy no matter what. If that means that it's not with you and you know that you can live with that...its love and don't even worry about what happens, because something good will come from whatever you decide." I realized that I do want him to be happy and it was silly of me to think that he could only EVER love me and NO ONE could ever make him feel good/happy. It should have been ME, but I was too caught up in my own feelings to work on what I needed to do to HELP repair my marriage before it was broken in HALF. I thought to myself, if before he goes overseas he realizes that he can't do this...I'm ok with that and at least I know I tried. I know that there are still men out there who think I'm pretty awesome and I agree with them. LOL! I'll be ok, no matter what happens.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

He's still questioning my attraction to him. Last night before we went to sleep, he kept asking me if I could see muscle growth (he's been hitting the gym hard) and I said "Yes" and he said "Do you think I'm attractive?" and I said "Yes" and in the most sincere voice he said "No really...do you like me? Do you really think I'm handsome?" to which I said "Of course I do, you know you're gorgeous  " ....I think, I'm not sure, but I THINK one of his top love languages is "Affirmation" ...I think that's what he was missing from me and found in someone else. Someone to make him feel good about himself. I feel sad that at ANY point in our relationship I didn't let him know how good he was...I'm not making excuses for him, but I'm sad for myself ...I feel like I let him down a little bit.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, affirmation is usually a really BIG one for guys. 

Has anyone suggested yet that you get Affaircare's questionnaires from her website (affaircare.com) and fill them out? Or the ones from marriagebuilders.com? There's one to tell you how you harm your spouse, so you can stop doing those harmful behaviors that drain your love bank (anything from leaving the toothpaste cap off to buying a car without telling your spouse), and there's one to tell you what his/your top needs (love languages) are, so you can be the only one meeting them. They really help you sculpt your responses to each other.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

I've been on the both the Affaircare and Marriagebuilders sites. I've taken the questionnaires...but that was a while ago. I think I'll go back and refill them. He use to join me in this kind of stuff, but I don't think he'll do it right now, he may need more time.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Everyone makes mistakes honey. I did the same thing. Of course at the time my excuse was "What do I have to be thanful for, you're being an a**hole to me all the time" lol. Sound familiar? It broke my heart when I found out about all that because I knew I wasn't meeting his, but he didn't seem to realize he wasn't meeting mine. 

Now that it all said and done, we are almost a year out from me finding out about his affair, and things have gotten sooo much better. I am happy to see him come home instead of dreading it. He is flirty with me, which makes me want to show him a lot of attention and stroke his ego. It can get better honey, but no one said it would be easy LOL.


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## LilBit35 (Sep 27, 2010)

I was so excited to see your post your husband is acting the same way as mine is right now....we are not living togeather at this point though...I had enough of the wishy washy bs that would go on every day! It was me as well as him one minute i would want him there and the next I wanted him gone and it hasnt changed to much even now! Its crazy that they want us to show them that we want them to stay before they will show us they are commited now...Ugh didnt we stay when we found out about the PA shouldnt that be good enough? Dont get me wrong I know I have to work at it but it just seems like we have to be the one to do it first!
I read through all your post and I like you did not have a very good marriage before he had the PA either...Its crazy but when he told me "we had nothing" he was right we didnt talk unless we had to....we didnt do anything togeather and I am also to blame for that, I just cant figure out why not just ask for D! He too said he has never stopped loving me...but he also told her he loved her! So words only mean so much to me right now!
It sure is a eye opener and a painful one....I am sad to say it but I am happy to see Im not the only one here whos husband is making it difficult to stay!


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Yesterday he was in a good mood. Met me at the door again. When he came back from the gym, he asked me if I was hungry and tried to engage me in conversation. 

I sent him the Love Languages, he opened the e-mail but he hasn't sent me anything back. 

Last night he seemed very "tired" which is unusual for him and he didn't want to fool around (again strange as of lately). Tossed and turned all night, then when I asked him if he was ok he said he couldn't sleep and went downstairs. He came back after a while, not sure what time, and went to sleep. 

We fooled around this morning and he went back to sleep. 

*confused*


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Checked phone records and e-mail. Nothing out of the ordinary. He didn't call anyone when he went downstairs, maybe he was just really hot (it was hot in the house last night). 

Arrgghh!! I hate that this has happened to us! I hate that I can't have the loving/trusting relationship I use to have with him. I'm so angry right now. 

I feel like he messed everything up! How can I believe he loves me anymore?!?! He use to tell me everyday....EVERYDAY!!! He use to call me EVERYDAY!! Now I'm lucky if I get one text and there are NO MORE "I LOVE YOU'S" anymore.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Start talking more. Grease the wheels.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

I really miss how close we were and how he would call me everyday like he needed to hear my voice or how he would snuggle up to me like he needed my attention. I miss him and what we had, even though he's in front of me.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

You need to tell him that, and ask him what he needs from you. I know he isn't really wanting to talk about it much, so come at it from a place where it isn't confrontational. Hey babe, I was sitting here thinking to myself how much I miss cuddling with you, etc, etc. Try and get him to talk about things that he misses from you. Baby steps.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

I checked his e-mail, he deleted (trashed) the two e-mails I sent him about Love Languages and asking him to fill it out. 

Should I be offended? I am a little. 

He kissed me twice before he went on his jog today. 

He also brought up Tango (an app to video chat) today because I thought my phone was cut off. Could he be using this to contact her now instead of using his email? He hasn't emailed her, but maybe he hasn't done this because he knows I can access his phone records and he thinks the texting in gmail is recorded. 

I hate not being able to trust him.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Checked his Tango last night, he didn't have "her" listed as a contact. 

He seemed to be in a good mood when he came home from running yesterday. I wasn't feeling good and I went to go upstairs to sleep and he joined me. He let me rub his back and chest and it seemed to make him smile. It was kind of dark in the room so I couldn't tell how much he was smiling, but he didn't stop me. 

I'm really trying to curb my "tude" with him and show him the attention I know he likes. So far he's receptive. Last night our son asked "Daddy, do you love me?" ...He said "Oh yes I do!" ..."Daddy do you love Mommy?" ..."Yes I do, very much". Our toddler kept getting in our bed and when he does that it makes my H roll over on ME and I can't sleep well. So of course I didnt get a good night's sleep last night so around 5:30 am I woke up kind of cranky. He said "Hey, I'll go downstairs on the couch and lay down and the baby can stay here today instead of you taking him to daycare. That way you can get some more sleep." - his voice was kind. 

This morning's morning sickness was bad. When I finally came downstairs to leave he asked me if I was ok (not sure if he was really concerned or just being friendly)....Then he texted me to make sure I got to work ok. 

I really miss ALL the attention I use to get. I feel so stupid for taking that for granted. Because now that it's limited, I can REALLY tell how much he use to shower me with attention/love and I was a brat.  ........He spoiled me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Write him a note telling him that.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Yesterday I told him that I needed some extra attention from him. He said "Ok " in his text message. 

When I got home I thought he'd quickly run out the door to the gym, like he usually does, but instead he smiled and said "Let's go get pizza!" So we did, but on the way there I had a convo with my grandmother about how my oldest catches the bus to his Dad's and has basketball practice now. This upset him, because I didn't let HIM know what was going on with my oldest. He said "When you don't tell me what's going on with him, I feel like you don't want me to care...so now...I don't care." ..."I told him I was sorry for not including him and I wasn't doing it intentionally." He said "Well you've had plenty of time to tell me, and you still chose not to. That's what bothers me".........I let it go. Didn't argue. Can't change how he feels with words. 

Last night my oldest got into BIG TROUBLE with me. (Found disrespectful and unacceptable text/pics on his phone) ...Husband wanted to be included in the punishment and I let him. I think this made him feel better, because I didn't argue or make him feel like he couldn't help in the parenting. 


Today he called me at work and said "I just wanted to call and see what you were doing...say Hi" 

GOD I hope he's starting to think of me more. I REALLY miss how much he thought of me and showed me and called/texted me.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

turnera said:


> Write him a note telling him that.


I will write him a note today.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Make sure you also apologize for not including him in letting him know of your kids' plans, and tell him he will now be #1 to be told.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

turnera said:


> Make sure you also apologize for not including him in letting him know of your kids' plans, and tell him he will now be #1 to be told.


Will do.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Saturday night I overheard him outside talking to my mother about my brother not speaking to him. My brother will probably NEVER forgive him for what he put me through. I've always been my brother's rock and he's only seen me cry twice before this situation happened. When he saw what my H put me through I thought HE was going to lose his mind. I'm sure watching me go through all the stages of separation/possible divorce and then finding out he cheated really upset him. So now he doesn't come around when my husband shows up. If he sees the car he'll turn around and go somewhere else. He still calls me and laughs with me and loves me, but he doesn't understand why I'm trying to make this work. 

So anyway, my H asks my mother WHY my brother isn't speaking or calling and is always "missing" when he comes around. He said he understands why he's upset, but he'd still like to talk to him. My mother explained to him how much my brother loves me and how upset this made him to see me hurt like that. 

Further into the conversation he confesses to my mother (who already knew, but pretended she didn't) that he "messed up really bad" and he is sorry that he hurt me and that he loves me. They talked for a long time about his emotions and how he felt neglected and wasn't sure if he wanted to stay married (things I already knew)...but it was nice to hear him confess to someone else when he didn't know I was listening. He said he knew he "was wrong and that's why he's back now and he'll never leave again." He told her when he looks at me it makes him sad knowing that he broke my heart and he promised never to do that and that he feels like he "remembers" me, but he feels the distance he put between us and that it's like sitting across the room from me and just waving at a smiling face, but not sure what to do next. 

I came outside towards the end of their conversation where he was explaining his goals to her and what he meant to do for his family before this happened and what he plans to do now. He also explained to her his dreams and he looked at me and said "She knows them. She knows my dreams." I saw a little remorse in his eyes...because he stared at me for a long time, with the look of someone who had "let me down". I was standing at the top of the stairs and he walked up after saying this, and stared at me and said "I'm so sorry". I held back tears and just smiled at him. 

On the way home he tried to blame shift again, I quickly stopped him and said "You're feeling guilty about what YOU did, do NOT place your guilt on me. I did not force you to do what you did.That was YOUR choice." He didn't argue. 

Later that night we sat in the car and opened up (FINALLY) about his feelings and he said he was sorry for what he'd done and that he just needed me to listen. He said he'd never file for divorce and he knows he messed up. Again, he explained how he felt neglected and unwanted (I didn't interrupt)...He told me that earlier he was upset and angry and confused and he didn't mean to give me the impression that he didn't want the baby. Although he did ask me if it was "his" at one point. I told him that I have NEVER cheated on him, even after he called it quits. He said "I know, I know you're a good girl." . He then begged me not to get rid of the baby, he said he'd never destroy what he created and that he was sorry for saying the things he did to me. And continued to beg me not to do it. He said he knows he deserves anything I throw his way, but I told him I wouldn't do that. He then explained how he wants the baby, but he wants me to understand that he won't be around much for the first 2 years, because of his deployment and focusing on his career. He said this several times as if to reassure me that he wanted to be there, but he can't (not like he wants to be). I DID say that he would take his R&R around the time that I am due. That's what he told me before all this nonsense happened, because we were so excited about having another baby. I just sat quietly. He told me he loved me several times. He kissed me a lot. Stared into my eyes a lot. It was the old him... peeking through. 

We also talked about money that night too (a big issue) he said he NEEDED me to believe in him and to let him handle it and fix our debt and not to get upset with him or make a big deal. I asked him if he trusted me when he came to money and he honestly answered "No...I'm sorry but you had your chance, you messed up. You have to prove to me that you can handle money better, just like I need to prove things to you. I know I need to prove my love to you." 


Sunday was pretty uneventful. He took me out to breakfast. He didn't walk ahead of me like he has been. He was patient. We went to my parents to watch football and cook. I feel asleep next to him and he seemed concerned about me being comfortable. 

This morning he called to check on me and asked me to call him back later. 

Why am I still worried? He seems to be making progress....but his upcoming deployment has me nervous. He seems to think I'm going to "pay him back" while he's gone, but I don't want him to use that as an excuse to do dirt while he's away. He says he's going to be focused on work, working out, and getting back home...but I don't know.

Why don't I believe him yet?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Because all he's done so far is use words. 

One thing I didn't see is him telling your mom OR your brother the TRUTH about what he did. He is still skating the issue (I hurt her). Pfffft. If he really wants to prove to you that he means it, tell him that you need him to get your family together and tell them the truth about what he did. If he won't do that, well, I wouldn't stay married to him.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

turnera said:


> Because all he's done so far is use words.
> 
> One thing I didn't see is him telling your mom OR your brother the TRUTH about what he did. He is still skating the issue (I hurt her). Pfffft. If he really wants to prove to you that he means it, tell him that you need him to get your family together and tell them the truth about what he did. If he won't do that, well, I wouldn't stay married to him.


He did tell my mother that he cheated. 

I think he's scared to death to tell my father, he looks up to him (he didn't have a father figure in his life)...and I'm not sure, but I think that's why he wants to speak to my brother...I'm not sure though. 

I will tell him tonight that he needs to do that, because he asked me to have a family meeting when it came to my son and I did that. I didn't do it right away, but I did do it. 

So because he won't confess to my family (maybe because he knows I already told them everything) I shouldn't trust him? I'm so confused. He knows I told them everything.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's about humility. He has clearly harmed you. By not speaking honestly to them about what he did - by using words like "I harmed her" - he is skirting the issue. He's 'asking' them to not call him out on the sordid details of what he really did to you.

This is a psychological issue to me. If he doesn't hit rock bottom by admitting in real words to your father and brother, he still gets to coast. He won't learn the full force of his actions without it. And he'll be likely to cheat again, because he basically got away with it. JMHO


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

turnera said:


> It's about humility. He has clearly harmed you. By not speaking honestly to them about what he did - by using words like "I harmed her" - he is skirting the issue. He's 'asking' them to not call him out on the sordid details of what he really did to you.
> 
> This is a psychological issue to me. If he doesn't hit rock bottom by admitting in real words to your father and brother, he still gets to coast. He won't learn the full force of his actions without it. And he'll be likely to cheat again, because he basically got away with it. JMHO


True. I'll bring it up to him and hopefully when he returns from "yet another training" (2 1/2 weeks long) He will sit down with my father and brother and talk about it. I'm not sure if it's such a good idea as I believe my father has done the same thing to my mother at one point in their 30 year marriage and my brother may not be willing to listen.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

Also, should "I" be there when he talks to them about it?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No.


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