# Ladies, I need an ass kicking...



## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I recently returned to a casual relationship after a break. I previously ended things because it just wasn't going anywhere, and I was becoming attached. He wasn't wanting a relationship, and yes, he told me straight up. As usual women don't want to listen, or they think they have some magical power to make him change his mind. I got sucked back in because he is quite charming, and has a way of making himself look generous and caring....maybe he is..meh, maybe he's just screwed up, I don't care any more. So we continued to see each other, he took me out for my birthday, we started doing some activities together, and he was showing some improvements, or so I thought. Then he pulls the old dissappearing act, and he doesn't contact me for over a week, and comes up with the "busy" excuse "crazy week" etc.

So this is what I've learned....I need to have my ass kicked a few times before I smarten up and listen to people, I need to listen to my gut. I suspect he was seeing other women, and I couldn't really address it, because our "whatever" was not defined. He played me well.

I've said it elsewhere, when a man says he doesn't want a relationship, believe him. He's not going to change. So, I have ended it for the second and final time, no going back, not even if the sex was great. lol

I think what's different this time is that I've read quite a bit on relationships because I'm freaking useless at them, or so it seems. I read "he just not that into you", and yep, a real eye opener, it was him, it was assclown. So, this time around I'm a bit smarter, 5 months ago I was a wimp, I ran to him every time he called me, and couldn't bear to see the signs that I was basically servicing his primal need. And he was good, he'd make me lavish dinners, take me out etc. It was a cover up...and I was vulnerable, I was on the rebound. 

I think everything happens for a reason, and I had to experience this in order to realize that I cannot trust men so blindly, like not being so gullable. Having been in a marriage for 25 years, I was very naieve and quite oblivious to the dating world. None of my friends were dating even, all were married....who could I ask???

While I appreciate the experience, whoa, it didn't feel good, major rejection feeling, and I even thought that it was me, and what could I change about myself. A male friend of mine was like "are you seriously thinking of changing for a man". I did in my whole marriage, so I guess it was a natural thought.

I'm good almost two weeks later, I feel at ease with my decision, my friend is convinced I fell in love, I doubt it, but who knows, and who the hell cares at this point. I don't even remember what it feels like to be in love.

Not sure if I have a question really, needed to just spew my thoughts. Thanks for listening.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> He wasn't wanting a relationship, and yes, he told me straight up. As usual women don't want to listen, or they think they have some magical power to make him change his mind.


Yeah, but it rarely plays out... As a guy i can only advise you to believe what the man is saying. If he tells you that he "doesn't want a relationship", what he is saying is that he likes to have sex with you but that's it. If you're not into that find a guy who is looking for another sort of situation. 

It seems many women when they hear "I don't want a relationship" think that he doesn't really mean it. And then they mistake the "I'll court you till i bang you" phase with him falling in love with them. 

This was one of the reasons why in the old days women made a guy go through a lot of pain just to have some sex. Because if he was only looking for some booty he would probably not invest that much (not guaranteed but still better than the current way...).


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I'm sorry it didn't work out & I hope everybody here reads your post.
Thank you for sharing.

I gave the book "He's Just Not That Into You" to my daughters. While not perfect, it is quite the eye-opener.

I remember dating after my long marriage ended when I was naive. When a man I was dating made up a laundry list of excuses why he "didn't have time to call me" for a few days. I told him:

"Even the President of the United States has time to make a phone call" & dumped him


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Working--you nailed it. If someone you are seeing tells you point blank they do not want a relationship--believe them! If you do want a relationship and they don't (or vice versa), it's best to cut ties straight away. 

Sorry to hear you gut hurt BUT, you shoulda seen it coming (yes that's my 2x4). 

Don't beat yourself up--it was an experience to go through that will make you wiser for the next time around. 

In this case, I have to give this guy credit for telling you straight up instead of stringing you along and making you "think" he wanted a relationship when he didn't.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Emerald said:


> I remember dating after my long marriage ended when I was naive. When a man I was dating made up a laundry list of excuses why he "didn't have time to call me" for a few days. I told him:
> 
> "Even the President of the United States has time to make a phone call" & dumped him


Haha. Good one!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

costa200 said:


> As a guy i can only advise you to believe what the man is saying. If he tells you that he "doesn't want a relationship", what he is saying is that he likes to have sex with you but that's it. If you're not into that find a guy who is looking for another sort of situation.


Bingo!

On the flip of this, what about if you are seeing a guy who hasn't said you are bf/gf official yet is doing all the couple-y things? How long do you go out/keep at it before bringing it up? Or let him lead?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Bingo!
> 
> On the flip of this, what about if you are seeing a guy who hasn't said you are bf/gf official yet is doing all the couple-y things? How long do you go out/keep at it before bringing it up? Or let him lead?


What do you mean by couple-y things? 
Be specific, it would be easier to answer.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Why not just lose this guy's number?

Seriously. How bad does he have to treat you before you forget about him?


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## jane1213 (Aug 10, 2012)

i need an ass kicking too. Thank you for sharing.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Why not just lose this guy's number?
> 
> Seriously. How bad does he have to treat you before you forget about him?


I did lose his freaking number, then he pursued me again asking me to go away with him....yeah, I thought he was offering more, but it was just a ploy to have more free sex....lol. I was hurt for about a week, then I realized I made a good decison, and I feel good about it. I think he realizes this time it's for good, he hasn't tried to contact me at all....

it's all good.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

How does one know if they're ready for a relationship anyway?? I'm 7 months out of my marriage now, and while there is still a bit of anger, I think I've come a long way, I feel like I'm ready to move on and have something more serious. I'm not desperate of course, and I won't settle this time.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Bingo!
> 
> On the flip of this, what about if you are seeing a guy who hasn't said you are bf/gf official yet is doing all the couple-y things? How long do you go out/keep at it before bringing it up? Or let him lead?


I'll offer my two cents....I think that if you're seeing someone for a couple of months, you're going to movies, dinners, spending overnights at one another's homes, and have said to each other that you're being exclusive, the I would call it b/f or g/f. What do you think??


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Emerald said:


> I'm sorry it didn't work out & I hope everybody here reads your post.
> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> I gave the book "He's Just Not That Into You" to my daughters. While not perfect, it is quite the eye-opener.
> ...


As I've said before....another word for "busy" is ass*ole


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Working--you nailed it. If someone you are seeing tells you point blank they do not want a relationship--believe them! If you do want a relationship and they don't (or vice versa), it's best to cut ties straight away.
> 
> Sorry to hear you gut hurt BUT, you shoulda seen it coming (yes that's my 2x4).
> 
> ...


You're right, but he sent a lot of mixed messages that messed with my head and confused the heck out of me.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Why not just lose this guy's number?
> 
> Seriously. How bad does he have to treat you before you forget about him?


Lol, I've done that with guys who are waffly. One guy I named "Mr. Iffy" in my contacts. I'm brutal, I delete the log, their number, texts, photos, etc. 

I actually did this to my current boyfriend, and put my profile back up on Match. It had a strange effect on him. He has a better awareness of when he's acting like a jerk. I gave him full leeway to feel like one, apparently he did not like this feeling, on top of that he missed me. I said nothing directly, I sent him instead a note about Mongolian Waltz, that is, having balance in a relationship, and keeping it, and doing what was necessary to keep it, and that I was game for that (not in those words, but close enough.) Once he realized he couldn't get away with giving me the shrift, and that I was okay with being disappointed but not being histrionic, and moving on to the natural consequence, looking out for myself, he seemed to gain a much better respect and admiration of me. I think it actually built trust in the relationship, that I wasn't going to let him walk all over me for years and then turn on him. (I believe this is what happened in his past very long term relationship that ended about a year or so ago.) As for me, I'm glad he got his act together. He really is a nice guy, even more so when he acts like it, and I like spending time with him. It's nice to be with someone who values a relationship and is willing to put some effort into communciation and some normal sense of reliability. 

There is no shame in wanting a relationship. I'm not surprised you ended up wanting to fall for him. It's normal to want to be emotionally close to someone you're spending your physical time with. In fact, it's normal to want your body and spirit to be in one place, regardless of the circumstance, relationship or not. Sure you can take care of your physical needs by getting together with someone, the problem is, your heart goes along as well, and it feels left out. You're doing to your heart the same thing the guy is doing to you, marginalizing it so that you can take care of your body. That has its limits, and its consequences.

No guy (or woman) is perfect. There is a difference between sometimes acting like a jerk, and actually being one.

Edited to add: follow your intuition. It's good that you posted this and brought it to the forefront of my thoughts. My guy was supposed to call me last night and he didn't. He gets stressed out and muddled and likes to check out of reality, when he does this I can actually feel it. I went to Match and sure enough, he has been active. lol, no surprise. I don't actually think he will get involved with anyone else. But I made my own profile visible. I have no intentions of doing anything else on Match, but he doesn't need to know that. I just think if he's going to be on Match, I'll make a point to do that too. Next thing is I delete his phone logs and messages and his phone number and a couple photos I have and all that. We'd left it that he might meet me in the city for lunch today, I have no intention of calling him or messaging him in any way. Let him find me instead. If I'm in a position where I can answer my phone (not in a meeting I have to go to), maybe he'll get lucky. I don't like to feed negative behavior, my thing is to passively ignore it and get on with my life, not just in theory but in fact. I have a good knowledge of what drives this behavior of his, but it's still the same behavior. If he feels like cr*p because of it often enough, maybe he'll choose to do something about it. 

If someone else asked me out today for lunch or whatever, I'd probably accept. When a guy misses a phone call and then is active on Match, I inerpret that in the usual way, that he is not committed and I don't have to be either. Works for me. Not what I would want, but you can't always get what you want, when you want it, and from the source you want it from. I'm game for understanding that people are going to do weird sh*t in relationships, due to whatever reason/cause.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

No one is perfect. You are right.

However, when someone feels used, it's usually because they are. You can't control the other person, but you can control yourself. You teach people how to treat you. 

When someone wants a relationship with you, they make it pretty well known...unless they are mentally still 20, and in that case, it's time to move on. This man told her straight up that he didn't want a relationship and yet she thought he might change his mind. he hasn't.

OP, you will know when someone wants a relationship because it will naturally flow there. You won't need to force anything or wonder where you stand. In time, it will just happen.

Enjoy dating and taking things slowly. The right one will come around


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Be honest with yourself. If he comes back around, ASSUME YOU'RE A BOOTY CALL. And then think about how that will make you feel in the morning. 

Just don't fool your self into seeing a mirage.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

working_together said:


> How does one know if they're ready for a relationship anyway??


I thi nk if you meet someone, & find yourself interested in wanting to go out with them, and definitely if you feel a "spark" then you are ready. When you are not ready or into it, you can just tell cause your heart isn't in it at all and you don't want it to become "something more."



working_together said:


> I'll offer my two cents....I think that if you're seeing someone for a couple of months, you're going to movies, dinners, spending overnights at one another's homes, and have said to each other that you're being exclusive, the I would call it b/f or g/f. What do you think??


I think that until you have the actual exclusivity and b/f or g/f conversation, that it's not really "official." With my ex we were inseparable and one day I asked him "What are we doing?" and he said "You're my g/f." 



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I think it actually built trust in the relationship, that I wasn't going to let him walk all over me for years and then turn on him. (I believe this is what happened in his past very long term relationship that ended about a year or so ago.)


Do you mean he walked all over his ex? 



that_girl said:


> when someone feels used, it's usually because they are.


Agreed.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

working_together said:


> I'll offer my two cents....I think that if you're seeing someone for a couple of months, you're going to movies, dinners, spending overnights at one another's homes, and have said to each other that you're being exclusive, the I would call it b/f or g/f. What do you think??


Coming out of a common law arrangement in a few years back, I soon met a newly separated man. We hit it off and started going out, doing all the couple things, dinners, dates, etc...but 2 years in, it was still the same thing, no long term plans, no talks...he was quite happy to get together on the weekends to go out or bang but also go on having our own separate living arrangements, etc. I got out of it because I wanted more. When I moved in with my fiance, this guy finds out and gives me sh!t! Says "I always thought WE'D end up together!", but he never ever said anything like that, or gave me any indication at all that it was anything more than just a casual arrangement...Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned the book "He's just not that into you". Get it. I learned a lot from that book! LMAO! And the lesson that sticks most in my mind is that guys like that show you who they are all the time. Believe them! When they say they don't want a girlfriend, just move on!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemaker_Numero_Uno 
"I think it actually built trust in the relationship, that I wasn't going to let him walk all over me for years and then turn on him. (I believe this is what happened in his past very long term relationship that ended about a year or so ago.) "

"Do you mean he walked all over his ex? "

Yes, what I mean is that she allowed him to and he did. In my opinion, someone who allows themselves to be walked over in a relationship is asking for it to end, because a person like that falls somewhere between being pitied and being despised, but definitely does not set themselves up to be loved, equally, as should be in a balanced relationship. Unfortunately, I had to tell my guy just that today, that flexibility only goes so far. I didn't do it for me, or for him, I did it for the relationship, which we would both like to enjoy. Baggage can really s*ck sometimes, and when it unpacks itself, someone has to kick its a**.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry homemaker, but if he willingly admitted to walking all over someone who loved him, someone he was in a LTR with, he's a d*uchebag. That's a major red flag. I wouldn't ever want to date someone like that and commend his ex for being out of that relationship.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I don't really care what happened, I wasn't there. I think the story got lost in the translation. Anyway, I don't know and I will never know and maybe they don't know either, even though they were both there, lol. The relationship lasted a long time, so it couldn't have been all bad. She got sick, acted irrationally, maybe even got paranoid as a result of her illness, and fell for her male nurse her mom hired to help out. I guess her mom figured a male nurse would be safer than a female nurse in the home. That kind of backfired on her, lol!

On the other hand, she took over a lot of the business administration and had him producing the art, which should have been 50-50 because it takes a toll on the body to make the product, and a lot of product to make a living. She insisted on doing almost everything but the product, although she insisted she loved that art. Her new guy produces a different kind of art and so now that is her thing...after 20+ years of supposedly producing (or not) product x she now supposedly (or not) produces product y. She is attracted to down and out artists I suppose, and wants to 'make' them. For me, I have one piece of his art in my home and that which was given to my daughter. I use stuff from his cabinet he made during the course of his education and early work, as common mixing bowls and am more interested in functional form than the showcase aspect. The particular art is somewhat fragile and requires special handling and dusting and so forth. I'm a Quaker, a lot of the product is made for decoration, so I have a healthy distance from it. I love watching the process when he's into it, but I have my own art which is writing and of course that's not so fun to watch in progress, there's no fire involved, at least not that can be seen, lol.

All I know is how I might feel at any given time, when actively engaged in the relationship. I tend to communicate prior to taking action. I wait for feedback, response. I'm not a knee-jerker. There are a lot of reasons why people do what they do, when they do it. Being late one time on a day when I feel vulnerable, doesn't paint the big picture. I tend to say what I have to say, let him know how it looks/feels from my perspective, being honest and fair, and then wait. It's not so much what happened that concerns me, but how he responds genuinely to my communication of how that made me feel. To me a relationship should be able to be shaped by communication, free of accusations or presumptions. If the relationship can't hold up to communication when there is an issue for one party or the other, that's when it has to end. The action itself isn't so much an issue, unless it's particularly offensive/insulting. Because of my view of what constitutes a good relationship, I welcome issues early on in a relationship, because then I can see how my legitimate concerns are handled. My ex would play his trump card, which was divorce, in order to get his own way (which involved other women). There was never a dialog but that it was fake, thumbscrews style. So far, that's not what I've seen in this current relationship. I've actually been listened to when I have something to say that concerns me, which has not been too often. Usually he beats me to the chase, and does the self-accusation thing, which I acknowledge, but I still pursue my own concerns with it, regardless. It's _nice_ that someone can recognize when they've been hurtful, but it doesn't mean that the hurt party has to stay silent after the finger's been pointed. To me, that's just opening the door for dialog. I would never say, oh it's okay, don't worry about it. Because there is reason to worry, if unaddressed it could mean the end of the relationship, and if that wasn't his goal, he should know about it. Good habits start soon, particularly in the early stages of a relationship when the walkaway (in theory) should be easier. I do place a value on communication style and problem resolution. I don't think I'd feel comfortable committing long term to a relationship that didn't have its problem resolution all sorted out in the dating stage.

I'm at an age where I have other stuff going on that's just as important as this relationship, which is my relationship with my own art, and my children. He does not have children, and I think he wishes he had, along with the discipline I apparently got from my military years or just came by naturally in the course of growing up as me. If anything, he sees me as having a more stable life despite working projects and living an artist's life. We have a lot to learn from each other, and that keeps the relationship going. In my past relationship I never had a problem letting my friend turned lover know when he was being a jerk and taking advantage. He really went the distance though, having a brain hemorrhage. I went to the hospital every day for 6 weeks and now he doesn't even have the decency to remember me (that's a joke, he's actually not in good shape.) That was a fairly healthy relationship. We held each other accountable and realized we were going to be imperfect and part of choosing to be vulnerable is being hurt at times. No sense in licking one's wounds in private. 

The point is, a relationship is a living thing, it requires participation. Sometimes the participation is not so pretty, and that's normal. If things can't be resolved, of course, it's time to walk on. Sometimes, a jerk is really a jerk.
And that's so disappointing.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Coming out of a common law arrangement in a few years back, I soon met a newly separated man. We hit it off and started going out, doing all the couple things, dinners, dates, etc...but 2 years in, it was still the same thing, no long term plans, no talks...he was quite happy to get together on the weekends to go out or bang but also go on having our own separate living arrangements, etc. I got out of it because I wanted more. When I moved in with my fiance, this guy finds out and gives me sh!t! Says "I always thought WE'D end up together!", but he never ever said anything like that, or gave me any indication at all that it was anything more than just a casual arrangement...Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned the book "He's just not that into you". Get it. I learned a lot from that book! LMAO! And the lesson that sticks most in my mind is that guys like that show you who they are all the time. Believe them! When they say they don't want a girlfriend, just move on!


I'm starting to wonder if guys who are emotionally unavailable were always that way, and I bet they were like that in their previous relationship. Or they're the type to take their partner for granted, and so they really never say anything. The guy I was seeing was in a long term relationship for 14 years, and had two children. He said that when she got pregnant after several years of dating and living together, he bought an engagement ring, but they never married. Now, in the province I live in, it's pretty common not to get married, but it's just something I wondered about. I have a tendency to over analyse things, part of the job I do, but I was a bit concerned when he told me his mom was doing his laundry, along with his two kids when he has them. I was like "why aren't you doing it"..."I'm too busy, and she wants to do it".....lol, and the word "busy" comes up again. WTF could a person be so busy doing, yeah, he has his own business, but get a sexy assistant then....then you can bang her at work and not worry about taking time off....ok enough of that....lol


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Homemaker_Numero_Uno
> "I think it actually built trust in the relationship, that I wasn't going to let him walk all over me for years and then turn on him. (I believe this is what happened in his past very long term relationship that ended about a year or so ago.) "
> 
> ...


So I'll play devils advocate, and I don't really have room to talk and give advice on men who really aren't emotionally available but I think this guy is walking all over you, yes, you give him the cold shoulder, and you gain some power in the relationship, but you still take him back, and accept the crumbs he's giving you....you see, it's no different, it's still a game, and I'm not sure about you or others, I'm not into games. I want a normal relationship with someone who's not an assclown.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

working_together said:


> I'm starting to wonder if guys who are emotionally unavailable were always that way, and I bet they were like that in their previous relationship.



I think emotionally unavailable people have probably always been that way & have been in all of their relationships as well.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I guess what it all boils down to, is that I need something predictable, something stable, I want to know where I stand. And when I do, I will feel I can give my self freely without feeling like a fool, or overwhelming towards my partner. I want it to feel equal, that we are both on the same level. I agree that there will be hurdles, but not to the point that I question myself, or my actions. I never want to feel bad for who I am as a person, what you see is what you get.

I enjoy this topic...I never really thought about it much when I was with my ex, I didn't question a whole lot. I wasn't always happy in my marriage, there was the good and the bad, like all relationships, but I would feel responsible when he was down and and out, and that's never healthy.

It's all about what you can live with....and I need to learn to be happy with myself, which I am most of the time, but when crap like this happens, my ego takes a shot. My male friend says "you'll be fine" because he thinks I'm attractive, and I eventually find someone. Sure, but will they be worthy of my attention???


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I think emotionally unavailable people have probably always been that way & have been in all of their relationships as well.


I agree, this guy has issues. I think (he never said so) he was mad because I didn't invite him to my son's bithday party. I said to him "I know you don't have the girls" and then didn't invite him. While lying in bed he asked who was going, I listed a few people, and he may have been waiting for me to say my ex....lol. He wasn't going, but I guess he wondered why I hadn't invited him, I had invited him to other things, but without his kids, it didn't make sense. I found it ironic that after that I didn't hear from him much, like he was trying to punish me. Then I got to thinking about emotional abuse, and what I had experienced in my marriage. This guy was the silent treatment type, my ex was the screamer.Maybe I'm being paranoid....


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

So I get a text from him last night ..."I can't get any breaks, how's it going, how was your week?"....as usual, an excuse...my response (and I shouldn't have responded) "it's going, busy week". Then nothing. He expected me to respond with things I've been doing, and not just a flat response...lol I think he's got the message that I'm done. I didn't officially say it, and I won't because I feel it will look like I am hurt (which I am), and I'm not giving him any power, it will be basic messages, until he realizes that "I'm just not into him" 

We had talked about being friends if we didn't see each other sexually, so I guess he's saying hi (or he was fishing). At this point, I doubt I could be friends with someone who I was intimite with, but on the other hand, I've never had that experience...meh....too complicated.


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## jane1213 (Aug 10, 2012)

> it will be basic messages, until he realizes that "I'm just not into him"



This is exactly what my friend is doing with me some times. I understand now what he was trying to communicate with me when i was the super clingy friend ( tears). I am hurt. No one rejected me since i was 19 and even then boys were interested in me . I am still in denial and i need this ass kicking thing.

ive deleted his number but after some humiliation from my part ( tears again) .


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

working_together said:


> So I'll play devils advocate, and I don't really have room to talk and give advice on men who really aren't emotionally available but I think this guy is walking all over you, yes, you give him the cold shoulder, and you gain some power in the relationship, but you still take him back, and accept the crumbs he's giving you....you see, it's no different, it's still a game, and I'm not sure about you or others, I'm not into games. I want a normal relationship with someone who's not an assclown.


The verdict is still out but sadly it's beginning to look like he just can't toe the line for himself with any measure of stability, let alone me. I'm not sure what will happen with him, if he is going to falter or perhaps rally. I think he will rally since it's sink or swim, but honestly, he needs to give up his escapist habits, of which he has many. 

It doesn't do either of us any favors to be walked all over. I don't give him the cold shoulder, that would be playing games and I don't do that. It's not like that at all. I agree with him when he says he needs to go through stuff on his own, and then I let him. He knows very well he's sabotaging his life, he also knows very well I'm not going to participate, either to help sabotage or to rescue. When he's not available for a relationship emotionally, there is no relationship. 

He takes all of this seriously enough. He was on antidepressants and went off them and is thinking about getting back on, because he realizes that he probably has a problem that he needs some serious help with. It's easy to blame stuff on your ex, until you get in a new relationship, and realize you have the same problems you had after the breakup. (Insert barfing noise here.) 

Right now I'm okay with this relationship, I'm learning a lot from it, namely, practice in not being co-dependent when there are issues that aren't mine. I'm really thankful for this relationship, in that he does know he has issues and is willing to talk about them and realizes when he has his head up his butt.

If I do need to say goodbye to him, he will understand. Honestly, I have friends who also get their heads up their butts and can be unreliable and treat me the same way, and I've known them for much longer and have firmly established friendships where if I really need them to be emotionally and/or physically present, they do answer the call. One is a guy friend, he is chronically disorganized and doesn't always check to make sure his shirt is clean before going out to eat. He is disorganized and has a lot of habits and so forth that aren't always proactive. Yet there is true affection and concern for me, and he always pulls through regardless. My boyfriend in the three months we've been dating hasn't done anything yet that my best friends haven't, lol. It goes the other way too. Sometimes I can get overwhelmed or just feel like cr*p and at those times I fail too. Like tonight I have to cancel going to a milonga (dance party). I got up early to deliver papers and I'm just exhausted. I had to take my kids into the city, and did a lot of errands, my daughter has a soccer game and I'm just not in the mood to go. I want to get into bed early and do my school reading, and wake up refreshed to do my writing for school and some work and go to Quaker Meeting to gain discernment on this whole issue of friend & lover vs. walker-over and what is the best thing to do. I don't really feel like being out tonight socializing. 

I don't hide my feelings, when I called him yesterday at lunch to find out how his schedule was going I didn't hide my dismay that he was still at home. But it lit a fire under his butt that might have been necessary, he was on his way to a show where he is to camp overnight and he got out the door and on the road at the time he ought to have whereas otherwise he might not have. He didn't shave and he forgot a lot of his stuff, but he was pleased to be on the road anyway. It's a good warning for me not to get behind in my own work. I'm prone to distractions too. That's why it's more troubling when I see it in someone close to me...I do cut myself a lot of slack and don't beat myself up when I can't do something I'd planned. I can extend that same courtesy, in same measure, to others. If it becomes a habit or if it really bothers me to the point where I can't tolerate it, then yep, relationship will be toast. But I believe in discussing things first, to see if there can be a resolution. I don't like to throw the baby out with the bath water. Here's the thing, whatever courtesy I extend to him, I also take for myself. I'm comfortable with that. I know others want things to be perfect, and hold themselves up to a higher standard. I don't mind too much when someone falters because in a give and take relationship, that gives me some slack as well, and I do take it.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Rejection is not a flaw on your part.

Go and be awesome and you'll attract good people.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> The verdict is still out but sadly it's beginning to look like he just can't toe the line for himself with any measure of stability, let alone me. I'm not sure what will happen with him, if he is going to falter or perhaps rally. I think he will rally since it's sink or swim, but honestly, he needs to give up his escapist habits, of which he has many.
> 
> It doesn't do either of us any favors to be walked all over. I don't give him the cold shoulder, that would be playing games and I don't do that. It's not like that at all. I agree with him when he says he needs to go through stuff on his own, and then I let him. He knows very well he's sabotaging his life, he also knows very well I'm not going to participate, either to help sabotage or to rescue. When he's not available for a relationship emotionally, there is no relationship.
> 
> ...


But if you have to keep on discussing the same sh*t, what's the point, he knows what he needs to do, he needs to step up and offer you something more. He sounds like he's a mess. Sometimes we think we're ok with it, but it doesn't matter when you're not respected by someone you're sharing your body with....

just sayin'


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Rejection is not a flaw on your part.
> 
> Go and be awesome and you'll attract good people.


yeah, I guess time will tell.....


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Working_together...take the advice you gave to HNO 

Just go be awesome  Don't worry about dating, etc. Dont' force anything, don't push anything. Be content with being you and being with yourself. THEN attract people who like being with themselves and are READY for a relationship. And if you meet someone who says, "I don't want a relationship." Then smile and excuse yourself. NEXT! lol.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

WTF?? another message...."what are you up to? have you eaten? do you have any dinner plans??" me: "actually I do, sorry", I'm so tempted to play his game and go over, f*ck the **** out him, then get dressed and say "thanks, I needed that, cya" ....lol


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

JUST STOP.

Geebus.

Stop replying. Stop it. Seriously. If you go out with him, you are causing your own problems.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

that_girl said:


> JUST STOP.
> 
> Geebus.
> 
> Stop replying. Stop it. Seriously. If you go out with him, you are causing your own problems.


Oh, I know that, and I know I don't want to take the advice I give out, it's so much easier to give in. The fact that I'm pissed, and I do bad things when I'm pissed....lately anyway...lol


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, then stop. If you know who you are, then know yourself.

Go get a pedicure. And get the eyebrows waxed. Forget about him.

Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same (thanks to The Fray).


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

working_together said:


> But if you have to keep on discussing the same sh*t, what's the point, he knows what he needs to do, he needs to step up and offer you something more. He sounds like he's a mess. Sometimes we think we're ok with it, but it doesn't matter when you're not respected by someone you're sharing your body with....
> 
> just sayin'


I don't want anything more, that's the thing. I like being where I'm at, and he's where he's at. Nobody's getting married, nobody's moving in together. We go bicycling and cook together and watch movies together, take walks with his dog and mine, go to plays together, canoeing and kayaking and talk. We make love but it's not the be-all end all or the primary purpose of the relationship. I'm not a booty call. I'm more like getting the call in the morning and at night when we haven't seen each other during the day, and often even if we have, or reciprocating because he doesn't like to be the one to call all the time, and I don't either. I don't feel that there's a lack of respect, but we're in total agreement, you me and him that he is a bit of a mess. I was in the same place when my relationship ended, too. lol. I guess it's different if you're looking for a lifelong partner vs. a relationship that has growth potential for both people involved. When and if there's a time for it to be over, it will be over. People get involved with each other for a reason. By the way, I am finishing up with therapy and I actively seek experiential learning, especially when it comes to relationships, of all kinds. That is the most important thing to me, over everything else. It's not like he's pulling the wool over my eyes or I am allowing him to disrespect me or to mistreat me. Mostly I'm standing aside and minding my own business while he takes responsibility for his own life, but staying connected and being spiritually rather than materially supportive. My fortune isn't tied to his, except at the Dim Sum restaurant.  I treat him the same way I treat my other guy friend who can't manage his life very well but who is 100%+ kind-hearted and who, by the way, has the hots for me but would never pursue it because he is the friend of my boyfriend who had the brain hemorrhage (and now can't remember that we were a couple...but has been told and is impressed with himself, lol) and he, that boyfriend, before he had the brain hemorrhage, also had some tough times. I guess I don't expect a man to be any stronger than a woman. I figure they have to deal with the same stuff we do, and I've had a lot of experience managing my own sh*t and in some respects hold my own much better than a guy, I have to because I have kids. Also I'm recovering from a brain injury, so I try harder and absolutely look out for myself. 

I suppose this is a marriage forum but I believe this is in the post-divorce life section, I'm not looking to have a perfect marriage, or even any marriage! I'm looking to live my life according to how it evolves, and to stay aware of it and to think about what I'm doing, and why. I'm a Quaker and part of the relationship is putting it up for discernment whenever there is a challenge. I don't get the sense that any of our foibles come out of a sense of disrespect or callousness or wanting to put something over on the other. In fact, he speaks of me highly to his friends and seems quite proud of me. It was him who said it would make him feel better if I left my toiletries at his place. I honestly think that relationships will end if they are supposed to end, and continue if they are supposed to continue. I'm not going to jump the gun by applying a gold standard to a human, I don't do it to myself and I don't do it to my friends. I can be a slacker and have habits too that are unproductive and hurt the ones I love. I know some other forum members who are adored and respected as men who struggle with these things as well. Some days or parts of days I allow myself to have "act like a jerk days" so to speak, I do as I please and allow other people to practice their maturity and deal with their feelings, the same as I do when I'm on the receiving end. I think playing nice-nice all the time is too much to ask of any human being, including myself.

We'll see how this week goes and whether I will come back here asking for my own ass-kick. Usually I can give them to myself. I left an abusive relationship, and knew it to be one, and did give him the benefit of the doubt and this just does not feel like he is being intentionally manipulative or controlling or dismissive or evil the way my ex was. If he continues to have his head up his butt, he won't have time for me, and the relationship will come to a natural end because there was no energy on his side to support one. That would be sad, and I'd be disappointed, but there's nothing I can do to prevent it from happening except to say I wish it wouldn't. There is no need for me to give anything a thumbs up or thumbs down and it would be really presumptive of me to think I could predict the future or need to control it when it involves another human. It's not a canned chemical reaction, like carbonating water. I like to leave room for the divine.

The other thing is being from Jewish background, although not practicing, it's a habit, we're neurotic and it's not abnormal to talk about feelings in a relationship, or to be chronically messed up emotionally. Add artist to the mix (artisan and a writer) and there you have it. We're flaky as well as f*cked up and on top of that living in rural New Hampshire where you have to buy grocery store bagels and pretend you're lucky to have found your favorite brand that week, and they're not moldy.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

that_girl said:


> JUST STOP.
> 
> Geebus.
> 
> Stop replying. Stop it. Seriously. If you go out with him, you are causing your own problems.


You could either do the TG approach OR just tell him straight out:

*"This isn't working for me. You and I want different things so there really is no point in continuing this. Do not contact me again. Good luck." *


WORKING--HE already told you he does NOT want a relationship. What more do you want to know? He was straight up so anything further on your end is prolonging a sh!tstorm. 

Don't be That Chick. That Chick who is a doormat. 

UH UH
NO WAY
NO HOW

Stop dealing with this dude.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Just to reiterate, your words:



working_together said:


> I previously ended things because it just wasn't going anywhere, and I was becoming attached. * He wasn't wanting a relationship, and yes, he told me straight up.*
> 
> So this is what I've learned....I need to have my ass kicked a few times before I smarten up and listen to people


STOP IT. 

You said you needed a 2x4 but clearly you need a mack truck hitting you.

HE DOES NOT WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU. 

Chalk it up to some good sex and that's it. Plus hello you said you suspect he's been seeing/banging other women. Do you really want the STD possibility and d!ck-sharing that goes along with that?

Are you a woman or are you a naive girl?????

Look, if you even want you can tell him "Look, we had some good sex but we aren't looking for the same thing. This isn't working for me. Good luck to you."


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Or be a booty call. I mean, it's all up to you. But if you jump back in, don't complain. 

But dude...there are so many men in this world. Stop messin' with this idiot.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Or be a booty call. I mean, it's all up to you.


:iagree:

Cause quite frankly, in this "relationship" that's all you are.

Zing! 

And YES, that is meant to hurt because it's the TRUTH.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

It sounds like the guy was open and honest with you and, as you said, you knew it was a casual relationship. Unless you're into FWB, sex and casual relationships simply don't work...

If I were you, OP, I'd move on and avoid getting intimately involved with someone until there's a relationship in place.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

costa200 said:


> If he tells you that he "doesn't want a relationship", what he is saying is that he likes to have sex with you but that's it. If you're not into that find a guy who is looking for another sort of situation.


Not necessarily true. I like sex - quite a bit in fact. But, I must have a connection to someone to want sex with them. There has to be some "spark" - I have to like just spending time with that person. Thus, I do not want anyone "just for sex". And, I don't think I'm an atypical guy.

But, I personally would be hard-pressed to maintain a relationship, just due to logistical issues. I have my daughter 50% - week on and week off. For that week on, I am devoted to her - spending time with her and meeting her needs takes all of that week.

During the other week, I still have to go work 5 days. Doing the minimum (work, commute, getting ready in the morning) is 11 hours. Factor in chores and errands, and sleep, and the day is gone. After I keep with with my family and other friends, I have maybe two free nights every two weeks - tough to maintain a relationship with that.

So, yeah, if I say no to a relationship I mean it. But that does not mean I see a lady as just a booty call. It likely means that I have a lot going on, and I suspect she wants more time than I can offer (as in, she's always asking when I will have some time even though I've communicated my schedule, or she's always expecting me to do what's convenient for her).

OTOH, if I happen to meet a lady with similar time restrictions and she could deal with regular phone chats and meeting a couple of times a month, I might go for it.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

working_together said:


> WTF?? another message...."what are you up to? have you eaten? do you have any dinner plans??" me: "actually I do, sorry", I'm so tempted to play his game and go over, f*ck the **** out him, then get dressed and say "thanks, I needed that, cya" ....lol


Good for you for being busy!

I'm sure he likes you as a FWB but that's not what you want. Please block his number! This texting nonsense could go on for years!

Please trust me on this. You will forget about him in no time but not if you allow contact.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

This has been a sobering thread. With TAM, if something is difficult for me to read, that's when I know I need to pay attention to it and even force myself to read all of it. 

Last evening I looked at some on-line literature about dating and relationships, and the take-away was that if a guy is wanting to be in a relationship with you, and not just some placeholder, he will make it a priority to see you. He will identify himself as your boyfriend, he will ask when is the next time he can see you, he will be enthusiastic about seeing you. It will be obvious.

It made me think about my boyfriend that had the brain hemorrhage. He was like that. When we had a date he would set a place and time specifically. He would call me about 5 minutes before, anxious to know I was on my way, he would get up from his seat and walk across a crowded room to greet me, even taking me away from a conversation with a woman he had previously dated socially, he would grab hold of me in an embrace that showed a year's worth of desire. 

He left an imprint of how it's supposed to feel when someone is truly involved and wants a relationship. Unfortunately, it's clear that my current man friend doesn't measure up to that standard. That's pretty sad. What's even more sad is that my boyfriend that had the brain hemorrhage, he remembers me, and remembers how crazy he was about me, but when he talked to our mutual friend, he said he did not remember that we ended up being in a relationship, but our mutual friend said my former boyfriend sure was impressed with himself about it. I haven't heard from him, I think it would take a miracle to have the stars aligned for us to be back together. If anyone's in the praying mood...


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

ok, I've read your ass kicking comments...lol, re read a few more, and yeah, you are all right. While I don't think I was a complet booty call, the bottom line is that he does not want any sort of relationship, and I can't live with that after 5 months of seeing him. Hell, I haven't met one person in his life, and no, he's not married, I know that for sure. He is so paranoid of hurting his daughters by even admitting to be in a relationship, and that's a big problem, he can't protect them forever, and not be happy in his personal life.....but, that's not the point, so I will send an email that I can no longer see him, I don't want the messages to continue, and I refuse to give someone an ultimatim. I know that it will be the end, and that's why I have prolonged this final step. 

I'll update with his response to my email, really I don't need one....


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> You could either do the TG approach OR just tell him straight out:
> 
> *"This isn't working for me. You and I want different things so there really is no point in continuing this. Do not contact me again. Good luck." *
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Exactly what I was thinking.

In your response back about dinner you said "sorry"....you have nothing to apologize for about not being free. I know you probably wrote it as a courtesy but I really think replying as Jellybeans has suggested instead is the way to go.

He's not a bad person. He's told you upfront what he wants. You are choosing this. You can choose to be just as upfront (and still have grace) in return. Good call Jellybeans!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

working_together said:


> so I will send an email that I can no longer see him, I don't want the messages to continue, and I refuse to give someone an ultimatim. I know that it will be the end, and that's why I have prolonged this final step.
> 
> I'll update with his response to my email, really I don't need one....


Maybe you've already sent the email...but this still sounds a little dramatic to me. My suggestion would be to continue with your life, as TG says "Go be awesome!" and if he contacts you again, send the reply text that JB suggested. Or just send the text. Short and sweet and simple and it's done.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

working_together said:


> ok, I've read your ass kicking comments...lol, re read a few more, and yeah, you are all right. While I don't think I was a complet booty call, the bottom line is that he does not want any sort of relationship, and I can't live with that after 5 months of seeing him. Hell, I haven't met one person in his life, and no, he's not married, I know that for sure. He is so paranoid of hurting his daughters by even admitting to be in a relationship, and that's a big problem, he can't protect them forever, and not be happy in his personal life.....but, that's not the point, so I will send an email that I can no longer see him, I don't want the messages to continue, and I refuse to give someone an ultimatim. I know that it will be the end, and that's why I have prolonged this final step.
> 
> I'll update with his response to my email, really I don't need one....


I think this is a wise move. He's obviously not ready for a relationship right now and, whilst you mightn't have been a 'booty call,' the effect will no doubt have felt the same.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I feel invested in your story working_together....and have my poms poms at the ready to cheer you on. I remember last time you sent him an email. Just be careful that he doesn't think this might be the pattern between you. If you have already sent the email, and want this dynamic to change/be non-existent, you're going to need to stand firm if he contacts you again. Note: firm and clear. Otherwise he might chalk it up to you sending an email, he lets a little time ride, then contacts you again and then you're back again, then another email is sent to him again explaining what you want, he lets a little time ride......etc.

We're in your corner here. You are key in changing the dynamic with this guy. Best wishes!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I got encouraged by this thread. I sent my guy an email too, how being a doormat in terms of flexibility when he can't be reliable is going to make him despise me (and also make me despise myself), and was hurtful, and I don't want that in a relationship. 

I also updated my profile, made it visible and winked at him on Match. lol. I noticed that whenever he doesn't call me and then calls the next day to apologize, if I look he has been on Match. On his email account which he doesn't always bother to hide from me seeing, it also has email messages from Match. Dude, if you want a committed relationship, take down your profile and don't update it so it's obvious you're still looking. I can't believe I was so bold as to update and wink. But whatever, if he wants to do hurtful things, just because I'm not obviously crushed by them, I'll assume he can stand up to the same and won't take it too personally. I'm vicious and I'm also unapologetic about it, after all, all's fair in love and war. I can easily find a guy who will treat me better. Even my guy friend I inherited on account of the boyfriend who had a brain hemorrhage, and has his head up his butt, can pull it out to give me the time of day. He might show up with a dirty tee shirt on, but he shows up on time, and is vastly enthusiastic about spending time with me, and always picks up the bill, and tells me how hot I am (while refusing to date me, on account of loyalty to his friend who doesn't remember that he was dating me.) Sigh. With friends like that, who needs a relationship?

I wonder if I was overly mean though in the profile thing...I meant it to be a sort of enthusiastic good-natured exposure, without having to actually discuss it, since he keeps going on there without discussing it with me and honestly, at this point, because of the way he treated me, there's no way I can take this relationship seriously. I mean, the lessons learned and all were serious enough, and the way I felt was serious enough...but now, things have changed and it seems like a sort of joke, he doesn't actually get it that I'm a real person with real feelings. It's all about him I suppose. So I figured maybe I would make it all about him entirely, including all about him and how he has a good thing but can't keep from looking, all the while asking me to keep my toothbrush and stuff at his place, and making nice comments about buying extra toilet paper, speaking in the 'we' about domestic things like grocery shopping...either he's really manipulative or terribly f'd up. Either way, he's turned the relationship into a joke by his actions and choices. So, whatever! If he gets all pissy I'll tell him to get a script for sedatives and get over it, if I can handle that kind of treatment so can he, stop being a wussy!


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

The more time you waste on a relationship that doesn't suit you, the less likely you will meet somone else who is awesome.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

So, I wrote the email, and it was a well written, non threatening, no anger, it was acceptance, perfect. Basically, I said that I can no longer put myself in this type of position, that it is not healthy for me after seeing him for 5 months. I didn't ask for anything more, I then said that he'll meet someone special, that he's a nice guy blah blah. I told him that I had been detaching him for the last little while, and that I was ok with saying goodbye. I also thanked him for listening to my vents about my ex. This next part was the hardest, I told him that I can no longer be friends with him, that it's harmful for me, that he would make me want to be more involved. I said at least not now. 

He responed by email, and it was just as i expected. He said he wishes he was ready for a relationship, he said he valued our friendship, and liked me as a person. He then said "I respect your choice and fully understand", and wished me peace and harmony...yeah, ok...whatever. Here's where it gets tricky, he asked that I call him if I ever need anything, and that in time maybe we could do coffee, something about him letting me contact him, which is good, makes life easier. Then the last part says "I hope the kids can play together one day, they looked so cute". 

So, I lost my friendship as well, and it hurts, but I also know that this time it's final, no going back, I wrote it in a way that said I won't get involved in this type of situation again. And I won't, it's not me, I need something more than an occasional get together, I need someone who can take 2 min out of their day and say "hey". I don't ask for too much, I never smother, I know what that feels like, I was smothered my entire marriage. I need someone who doesn't make me question my self-worth.

phew....it's gonna suck for a while.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

working_together said:


> phew....it's gonna suck for a while.


Better than the alternative of what you were feeling before.

*shakes pom-poms*


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

working_together said:


> phew....it's gonna suck for a while.


Probably not for as long as you think. Once you get out in the world again with your single-eyes on, you'll relish all the possibilities and also be able to entertain choices you didn't have before because of your committed state of mind.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

DTO said:


> Not necessarily true. I like sex - quite a bit in fact. But, I must have a connection to someone to want sex with them.


But that is you. That wasn't the case with this dude. He was fine with some NSA sex and didn't want a relationship. Different strokes.

[I'll update with his response to my email, really I don't need one....[/QUOTE]



working_together said:


> The more time you waste on a relationship that doesn't suit you, the less likely you will meet somone else who is awesome.


Preach! :iagree:


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I have to be really careful, he said he respects my decision, but said he hoped our paths cross again, that we could be friends without all the complicated stuff, and do coffee. He was smart and said "when you're ready, contact me, even it's in a few months, take the time you need". I can predict that he might contact me in a couple of weeks, or maybe a month to see how things are going. Although, I think I was pretty clear this time, and he may wait til I contact him...not sure if I ever will, I will miss the friendship for sure, and one day I may be able to do that. I need to lick my wounds first. 

I actually didn't think of him that much today while at work, I almost felt relieved that this was over, no more game playing. He really tried this weekend.

Thank you so much everyone, I seriously couldn't have done it without all your responses, and encouragement, it really help with a final decision.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

He sounds shady to me. Creepy. BUT that's just from what you write. but his words....he's trying to suck you back in. lol.

I'm glad you did it. Now--- go be awesome.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

that_girl said:


> He sounds shady to me. Creepy. BUT that's just from what you write. but his words....he's trying to suck you back in. lol.
> 
> I'm glad you did it. Now--- go be awesome.


He knows he's lost a good thing, I don't want to toot my own horn, but he had it good with me. I was never needy, or over contacting him, I gave him his space. And we never argued, I'm pretty laid back, no pressure, until I've had enough that is...

When I met him, I had asked him how many women he had dated/slept with prior, he had mentioned 4, one was a friend (really? quel surprise..lol), which he says was "awkward", no kidding you don't screw your friends....one was a casual thing where she wanted more...lol pattern alert. The other two I forget, but he'll go through many more I guess. He's on a bit of an ego kick right now.

I really got some pleasure out of his "begging" this weekend though, once my eyes were open to the sitch, Everything became so clear.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

working_together said:


> I have to be really careful, he said he respects my decision, but said he hoped our paths cross again, that we could be friends without all the complicated stuff, and do coffee. *He was smart and said "when you're ready, contact me, even it's in a few months, take the time you need"*.


Ready for what, exactly? Ready to have a NSA physical relationship with him again?

Uh, no thanks.

That is why you ended it, remember? 

Yes, him saying he had very casual relationships lately and yours as well means this guy isn't ready at all for a relationship. Carry on.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

You'll probably be way too busy to even remember that he exists. Honestly, I drove by my ex's work the other day and he was alongside a building by the road digging something, maybe a trench, and I was pretty much already by him by the time I realized it was him. And I'd been looking right at him as I drove down the road, and he's the only person who works at his location, lol. It was the same as if seeing a stranger. The week before I drove by him as he was leaving work and he waved and because I live in a rural place where waving when one is waved to is a reflex, I waved back and then I was like, oops, I just smiled and waved at my ex, not even differentiating him from the average Joe on the road. Oh well. I've only been divorced for 9 months, too. If you live a normal life you will forget this guy soon enough, and not even remember that he thinks you're going to be 'ready' to contact him. I think, personally, that he's trying to put thoughts into your head.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

working_together said:


> So this is what I've learned....I need to have my ass kicked a few times before I smarten up and listen to people, I need to listen to my gut. I suspect he was seeing other women, and I couldn't really address it, because our "whatever" was not defined. He played me well.


I agree with Emerald. Buy the book 'He's Just Not Into You'. Re-read it once per month as long as you are in the dating scene. It is a great pep talk. The author (a really funny comedian) really 'kicks your ass' and drills it into you that you need to drop any guy that doesn't treat you well and continue to show you he is really into you. If a guy you are dating doesn't call you for a week (and isn't in a coma in the hospital), move on.

I also recommend his books 'It's called a breakup because it's broken' and 'It's just a date' (available on Amazon.com). The break up book will help you avoid giving that guy who doesn't deserve you another chance.

Whoops, reread your first post in its entirety and see you read 'He Just Not That Into You'. Oh well. I still recommend the other two books then. And I recommend the first book to any other woman who is dating that reads this.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Ready for what, exactly? Ready to have a NSA physical relationship with him again?
> 
> Uh, no thanks.
> 
> ...


Oh, he said when I was ready to resume just the friendship, not the benefits part, he knows that part is over. He then adds "I hope our paths cross again, you're a great person" yada yada yada. But seriously, would I ever be safe in a room alone with him????


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

With everything that has been going on, I need a couple of days to myself, to just relax. One of my clients had her baby early, and they aren't sure it will survive, it weighed only 1lb 14 onces. It's so sad. I already have a client who passed away from a drug overdose leaving behind her two year old daughter.


blahhhhh


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

W_T, how is it going?
I had a different outcome, my guy had been seriously swamped, and truly hard on himself for being late, letting his issues get control of him. But, I think it's important to speak up for what you really want in a relationship. It can go either way, and it should be able to go either way. Either you can get what you want/need out of a relationship, or you have to move on. Staying in a relationship because there's nothing else better around is harmful. Think of it, what if someone did come along that you wanted to have a relationship with, how are you going to explain that up until that point you have been involved with someone. Ugh. They're going to think, wow, she doesn't really value what she's giving me...sex is just sex to her, etc. Of course, it really depends on what you do want, long term...


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

working_together said:


> Oh, he said when I was ready to resume just the friendship, not the benefits part, he knows that part is over. He then adds "I hope our paths cross again, you're a great person" yada yada yada. But seriously, would I ever be safe in a room alone with him????


Ackcht, he said that because guys like that ALL say the same thing; I broke up with a schmoozy loser who had all kinds of email relationships going with women from his past; I counted about half a dozen, and there were probably more. I had snooped in his emails and found a note that he had written to a woman..."...maybe sometime in the future, we will get another chance to be together, and please know, that everytime I think of you...it makes me smile." Oh, puke. Guess what? He wrote the same thing to me when I dumped his ass. Telling me that hopefully sometime in the future we might try again, further down the road he said...then he closed it with: "I just want you to know....that everytime I think of you...it makes me smile." I let him have it at that point, told him to get some new material and to go back to his wife (yup, still married, hadn't told me) before someone really got hurt by his stupid games. Men like that are a dime a dozen; don't have anything more to do with this one.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> W_T, how is it going?
> I had a different outcome, my guy had been seriously swamped, and truly hard on himself for being late, letting his issues get control of him. But, I think it's important to speak up for what you really want in a relationship. It can go either way, and it should be able to go either way. Either you can get what you want/need out of a relationship, or you have to move on. Staying in a relationship because there's nothing else better around is harmful. Think of it, what if someone did come along that you wanted to have a relationship with, how are you going to explain that up until that point you have been involved with someone. Ugh. They're going to think, wow, she doesn't really value what she's giving me...sex is just sex to her, etc. Of course, it really depends on what you do want, long term...


I am still going to say that even if a person is swamped, what's two min. out of there day to call or text you and ask how you are. I'm not falling for that crap any more....you are either in or you're out....

just sayin'

Yeah, I spoke up with wanting more a couple of months ago, we had no contact for three weeks after I agreed to be friends. Then he had texted me to go away with him for an overnight, and I got confused and thought he was making more of an effort, and he did for a while, then he pulled back when things started to feel comfortable. He's really jaded because of the break up of his marriage, he was totally devoted to being a good husband and father, and it all ended really badly, he'll never forgive her. he had a lot of hopes and dreams that basically came crushing down, and now he's angry that she's moved on, and never expected this to happen.

too many issues, heck I deal with this stuff on a daily basis at work, do I need this crap in my personal life. I said to my mother I need a lawyer b/f to handle my personal life....a whole other story I cannot share here, my posts are still being read by my ex.....hi ex.....lol


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

working_together said:


> I am still going to say that even if a person is swamped, what's two min. out of there day to call or text you and ask how you are. I'm not falling for that crap any more....you are either in or you're out....
> 
> just sayin'
> 
> ...


So glad you are not dealing with any of this stuff now on a daily basis. These kind of people are not worth your energy. They drain you when you're with them, and they can drain you when you're leaving them which is why a clean NC break is the best.

I think my ex was like this. I beat him to the chase though when I divorced him I said maybe we can get together in the future, you can have the same chance as any other guy at that point. I didn't mean it, of course. It was just something I said, duh, he raped me and threatened suicide by car and left me hanging (literally) when we went rock climbing. There's no way I could be with him, even if I wanted to!

My guy, yes, suffering from the Black Dog. It was unlike him and a wake-up call for him. He did lose track of time, I know that for a fact and not in a delusional way making excuses etc. I was upset because it was something that I could not overlook and needed to speak up about because it ended up hurting me. That was not his intention. Also it was frightening because it was an indication to both of us how far things had gone for him in terms of disorganization. I've had a kid-sitter with OCD and other issues and once she forgot to show up and I had to call her. One of my best friends was having a stressful week last year and I went to her house for dinner and she had entirely forgotten I was coming. I waited til I knew she would have picked up her son from after school care and would be on her way home, before I called her, lol, no use adding to the stress. People aren't perfect, and they do get into periods of stress. There is no sense in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 
I do trust him and because of what I personally saw and felt, I'm okay with how I spoke up and also the character of his response, which was genuine and not some desperate patch up focused only on me, it was about him getting his head above water and not putting himself in a position to shoot himself in his foot.


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