# When should Indian man tell parents about white girlfriend?



## learning112

Originally he told me it could not happen in his family until we were very serious (right before getting engaged). Then he broke up with me saying his parents would never approve & he didn't want to hurt them. However, he became very depressed for months after he left me. Now he is asking if we can get back together because he's found he just can't be without me.

He said it's a huge step & right now is too soon, when he's only known me 6 months total and it'll be 3 more months before he knows where he'll be stationed for work for the next 2 years (we might be long distance for all that time!). But I want to decide how long I'm willing to wait for our relationship to progress to the next level... And if realistically he's ever planning on standing up to his parents for me anyhow!


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## Starstarfish

I'd say its time to give this a pass. 

When your partner tells you he's ashamed to tell his parents about you - its a -major- red flag. And I can imagine it being a constant source of grief with the in-laws and potentially with him in the future. 

Do you want children?

What are these in-laws going to feel about mixed culture/race grandchildren? Will they be accepting or judgmental?


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## learning112

Starstarfish said:


> When your partner tells you he's ashamed to tell his parents about you - its a -major- red flag.


But what about the details of our specific situation? Right now He's only known me for 6 months total, and we are just now starting to be long distance -- should we really be expected to know, right now, if we want to stay together for life? We don't even know how long distance is gonna go for a month yet. and the long distance could go on for 2 additional years, we won't know till fall.


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## Rollin

Possibility of long distance + he values his parents feelings more than yours...

Just doesn't look good


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## Enamored

Being an Indian and spending significant time in UK US, i can sayWestern culture is quite different from Indian. there is enormous pressure from families and not every one can buck this. If he is looking for his parents approval, then I do not think it will work out well. It would hurt u in short term but eventually would be better for all involved. Also I already foresee lot of issues post marriage for u already..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rags

My grandfather was Indian (Parsee) - came to England and married a girl here. It can work.

BUT - he was disowned and disiniherited by his family, so it comes at a price.

According to recent studies, Indian cultures are among the most racially intolerant in the world:
Map shows world's most racist countries (and the answers may surprise you) | Mail Online

He will probably never find it easy to admit to his family that you exist, and would have to be prepared for an extremely negative reaction - they would likely never accept you, and - assuming they maintain contact with him - mighyt never acknowledge any marriage, or children that came from it. i.e. they might keep on trying to get him into a 'real' marriage, with someone of whom they approve.

Long distance relationships are also extremely difficult to maintain (been there, failed at that ...)

So, I would suggest extreme caution. He would need to be prepared to scarifice everything (as did my grandfather) to make it work - home, family, country of birth, etc.

Eventually parts of his family did come round (as did my grandmother's, who were also very much against the relationship) but it didn't make for an easy life for them.


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## Starstarfish

To answer your question, OP - it still applies in your specific case. 

I'm not sure that I'd personally label it as "only" knowing someone for six months. While, no, that might not be a period of time in which you decide if you want to get married and spend forever together - the man has left you once because of these feelings of familial obligation that he can't cope with. 

Do you want to risk that happening after you get married or especially if you have children?

I'm not saying it -couldn't- work as Rags points out - but it requires a someone with a strong conviction to deal with the consequences. And - him already dumping you once doesn't really give the indication that he has that kind of backbone.


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## Kimmono

Hi guys, I am a Caucasian (Aussie) and my partner of many years is Sri Lankan, his brother is also married to a Fiji indian and her brother was dating a Cambodian! We are also a big mix atheist, Buddhist and Hindu. My partner was cautious about first meeting his parents they had wanted arranged marriages for their sons, but they made it clear to their parents that they would not be having arranged marriages. My father in-laws eldest brother had a love marriage and moved to New Zealand, he was banished from the family and removed from the parents will. I did not meet his parents until we had been together for 2 years, but they were living overseas and I met them when they returned. His parents were not happy to begin with but over time have grown to like me and appreciate what I do for them. But they do lie to their family that we don't live together (we do) because we aren't married. 
His brother bought a house and was going to move in with his girlfriend, but her parents (Fiji indian) stated they would disown her, and thus they got married. They also lied to the community about the state of their relationship to save face (pretended they didn't "sleep over" when they did etc). 
The brother also recently decided to get an arranged marriage to a Fiji indian girl and his girlfriend at the time thought he was going to marry her until his sister made an announcement in front of her, with all family and friends present. She was totally shattered, and he has since said to her that he wanted to get married to a person of the same religion. He also cheated multiple times throughout their relationship and was looking for someone to be subordinate to him, once saying that she would make a bad wife because she did not blindly support his view in a situation. 
I'd be very careful! You could have a relationship for a few years and his parents may push him to have an arranged marriage and he will be off in a puff of smoke, leaving you to pick up the pieces. My partner said he has seen this happen many times.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Learning,



learning112 said:


> Originally he told me it could not happen in his family until we were very serious (right before getting engaged). *Then he broke up with me saying his parents would never approve & he didn't want to hurt them*.
> 
> *If your words are correct then your boyfriend's parents don't even know you exist. Red Flag! He doesn’t want to hurt his parents, but he’s okay with his parents hurting him, by not allowing him the freedom to choose who he wants to be with.*
> 
> He said it's a huge step & right now is too soon, when he's only known me 6 months total and it'll be 3 more months before he knows where he'll be stationed for work for the next 2 years (we might be long distance for all that time!). But I want to decide how long I'm willing to wait for our relationship to progress to the next level... And if realistically he's ever planning on standing up to his parents for me anyhow!
> 
> *If his parents can’t accept you, that a white woman can make their Indian son happy, than the problem is his parents and he needs to acknowledge this fact. His parents should be supportive of his decision and be happy for him; instead they are thinking only about themselves and their position within the family and community. They don’t give dam about his feelings towards you.*
> 
> But what about the details of our specific situation? Right now He's only known me for 6 months total, and we are just now starting to be long distance -- should we really be expected to know, right now, if we want to stay together for life? We don't even know how long distance is gonna go for a month yet. and the long distance could go on for 2 additional years, we won't know till fall.
> 
> *Your relationship is still young I suggest you both spend as much time as possible talking to each other about where you both see yourselves in another 6 months’ time or before he’s stationed away from you.
> 
> Your boyfriend needs to MAN-UP and STAND-UP to his parents and tell them he’s in a relationship with YOU and NOT THEM. The fact that he wants you back because he “can’t be without you”, could be a good sign he’s prepared to stand his ground and defend his relationship with you. You need to push him HARD on this point otherwise he’ll leave you again.*


Regards,

FTP


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## rks1

I'm an Indian-American woman in process of divorce of my Indian husband. He still lives with his parents rather than living with me, as he is the eternal mamma's boy.

It's truly not worth it. You are only signing up for years of heartache. He is already telling you that he has family issues by not being able to tell them about you. He is giving you all you need to know up front. 

There are too many stories of such men on these forums and others. Think with your head rather than your emotions.

Next time, I'm perfectly happy to marry a non-Indian person. (I'd still be okay with an Indian man, provided he can prove to me his capacity for independent decision making, and provided he can put a partner first in his life. Less than that is completely unacceptable to me, and I won't get involved with such a person again. I've already been a fool to another Indian mamma's boy before my husband who left me because his parents told him to, and there won't be a 3rd time.) Two Indian mamma's boys' heartaches is enough for me.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello rks1,

Interesting story, sorry your here...



rks1 said:


> I'm an Indian-American woman in process of divorce of my Indian husband. He still lives with his parents rather than living with me, as he is the eternal mamma's boy.
> 
> *It's truly not worth it. *
> 
> *Yes!* *“It's truly not worth it”! * *But that’s based on your experiences and not Learning’s, shouldn’t she have the same opportunity that you did, not once but twice to explore her relationship with her boyfriend?*
> 
> You are only signing up for years of heartache. He is already telling you that he has family issues by not being able to tell them about you. He is giving you all you need to know up front.
> 
> There are too many stories of such men on these forums and others. Think with your head rather than your emotions.
> 
> *Agreed!*
> 
> Next time, I'm perfectly happy to marry a non-Indian person. (I'd still be okay with an Indian man, provided he can prove to me his capacity for independent decision making, and provided he can put a partner first in his life. Less than that is completely unacceptable to me, and I won't get involved with such a person again. I've already been a fool to another Indian mamma's boy before my husband who left me because his parents told him to, and *there won't be a 3rd time.) *Two Indian mamma's boys' heartaches is enough for me.
> 
> *I’m sorry you feel that way, but you’re NOT looking hard enough, they’re out there!*


Regards

FTP


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## turnera

learning112 said:


> And if realistically he's ever planning on standing up to his parents for me anyhow!


Realistically? No.

Especially not in Indian culture. 

I usually tell people to not get serious for at least a year of dating, preferably 2 or 3. Why? Because when you first start dating, those PEA chemicals are flying in your brain and body and you just can't live without each other. After a year or two, however, the 'drug' starts flowing more slowly, and the veil kind of lifts from your eyes. If you are still crazy about each other without the benefit of the drug, then you have a chance of it working out despite the two-culture situation.

I would just enjoy each other's company for now and not get to the 'future' discussions.


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## Ikaika

Starstarfish said:


> I'd say its time to give this a pass.
> 
> When your partner tells you he's ashamed to tell his parents about you - its a -major- red flag. And I can imagine it being a constant source of grief with the in-laws and potentially with him in the future.
> 
> Do you want children?
> 
> What are these in-laws going to feel about mixed culture/race grandchildren? Will they be accepting or judgmental?


I would agree... I was fortunate that my in-laws were very accepting of me. My wife from a Japanese American background (I am not). I don't think our marriage would have worked otherwise. 

In fact on my father in-law on his death bed told my wife she made a good decision. 

If you don't have a good relationship with your in-laws that in and of itself will add constant strain to your future marriage, you don't need this trouble. Walk away.


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## RandomDude

Asian societies are generally very accepting towards daughters marrying out, but for sons it's very different. Personally OP I wouldn't waste my time, he's torn with indecision. So was I with my STBX for a long time, many of my people disowned me - and the thoughts of getting rid of her based on her race/culture crossed my mind more times than one, leading her to alot of insecurity.

I even wanted her to dye her hair so she would look more "Asian" as I wasn't very happy about PDA (public displays of affection), in some ways I was ashamed of her, with both Western and Asian crowds. The ideal for me was someone based on Altaic backgrounds, not a Svenska/Sino mixed lady. In a way I was contributing to the genocide of my race (my people/culture don't have a large population due to two genocides one by Stalin). As for STBX and I; thankfully my daughter looks more like me 

If he isn't willing now, and add that to the long distance thing, it's just not worth it. You can't just wait for him wishing that he can change. Some people just can't handle interracial/cultural relationships, you will have to branch out to find those who can. Also, bear in mind that societal pressures can be so intense that one would have to leave their host country to live in a more multi-cultural country with their wives. Many men in my culture did just that, sick of the intolerance amongst our own. Western intolerance is nothing compared to intolerance amongst Asians - is he willing to move if it comes to that?

If it's no, and no, and no - then my advice is: Say no as well. You should respect yourself to go for something better.


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## Coffee Amore

learning112 said:


> Originally he told me it could not happen in his family until we were very serious (right before getting engaged). Then he broke up with me saying his parents would never approve & he didn't want to hurt them. However, he became very depressed for months after he left me. Now he is asking if we can get back together because he's found he just can't be without me.
> 
> He said it's a huge step & right now is too soon, when he's only known me 6 months total and it'll be 3 more months before he knows where he'll be stationed for work for the next 2 years (we might be long distance for all that time!). But I want to decide how long I'm willing to wait for our relationship to progress to the next level... And if realistically he's ever planning on standing up to his parents for me anyhow!


Your story reminds me of the story of one nandosbella. Here's a link to one of her threads. I think you might want to read this particular thread by her. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/58305-can-love-conquer-all.html

She's a American who married a Pakistani Hindu. His family back in Pakistan didn't know he married an American woman. He wouldn't tell them. He even had a sister in New York City who didn't know about the marriage. And I think his family back in Pakistant was trying to fix him up with a young woman from that culture. Eventually, the wife gave him an ultimatum. Tell your family by this date or else. And he didn't. I'm not sure where they are in their relationship now, but it's been several years since their marriage and it's even harder now for him to tell his family because the secret has gone on for so long. 

You shouldn't be with someone who is unwilling to take a stand. Things aren't going to magically get better for you.


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## learning112

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful responses.


Starstarfish said:


> I'm not saying it -couldn't- work as Rags points out - but it requires a someone with a strong conviction to deal with the consequences. And - him already dumping you once doesn't really give the indication that he has that kind of backbone.


We all know the initial post-breakup phase is the worst. But he broke up with me originally, got through that phase, and by now things should've been easier and he should've been on the way to total healing. But instead he informs me that he just can't live without me and moves towards being closer instead of further apart. And not for sex (as I said, he does not want to sleep together until things are solidified / "permanent"), and not for convenience because I just moved away. So it just seems dumb on his part to purposely set himself back, set himself up for more pain/another breakup, unless he really felt something had changed for him.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful responses.
> 
> 
> We all know the initial post-breakup phase is the worst. But he broke up with me originally, got through that phase, and by now things should've been easier and he should've been on the way to total healing. But instead he informs me that he just can't live without me and moves towards being closer instead of further apart. And not for sex (as I said, he does not want to sleep together until things are solidified / "permanent"), and not for convenience because I just moved away. So it just seems dumb on his part to purposely set himself back, set himself up for more pain/another breakup, unless he really felt something had changed for him.


If he's one of those rare Indian guys who makes a stand, than maybe you have a point. But I still question his original reason for breaking up with you. He still has some doubt and he needs to tell his parents about *YOU*! *That’s his TEST for YOU, in CONFIRMING he is not a mummy's boy and a man that will stand by you no matter what his parents think of you.* Now that he’s back, ask him, do his parents know about you? If he can’t tell his parents about you, now that he’s back, then I’m sorry I don’t see this going any further.

Regards, FTP


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## learning112

Thanks, FTP. One correction, though - I don't know what you meant by "now that he's back" - we won't know for another 3 months if we'll be 3 or 3000 miles apart for the next 2 years, it's just for sure that we're long distance right now. I get his point about wanting to wait those few months before telling his family, because statistically, a lot of couples break up once they become long distance & we need to make sure we "work" that way, and in 3 months we'll know how long we're even dealing with long distance.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi learning,

This is from your first post.


> However, he became very depressed for months after he left me. Now he is asking if we can get back together because he's found he just can't be without me.


I thought he’d left you when he broke up with you the first time, so I assumed that “now that he his back” line. I stand corrected! If miss read your original post. 



learning112 said:


> Thanks, FTP. One correction, though - I don't know what you meant by "now that he's back" - we won't know for another 3 months if we'll be 3 or 3000 miles apart for the next 2 years, it's just for sure that we're long distance right now. I get his point about wanting to wait those few months before telling his family, because statistically, a lot of couples break up once they become long distance & we need to make sure we "work" that way, and in 3 months we'll know how long we're even dealing with long distance.


In the mean time you three months to discover each other’s goals and what each of you wants before his he finds out his final time table. You didn’t mention what he does? I guessing he’s in the armed forces? Then that would make sense for the long distance. 

Regards, FTP


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## Lon

Sounds like he needs to be a man and decide his path in life: the one where his parents approval is the most important part (in which case you will not measure up) or the path where he goes for what he wants and is not ashamed for it.

Sorry if that sounds like a cliche definition of a man, but he is the only one who has the power to not be a cake-eater, or else he is little boy with his hand in the cookie jar about to be caught. Either choice he makes will have consequences, so he has to decide to either respect your position or not, if he doesn't respect your position what will you do?


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## Wiltshireman

OP,

Mixed race marriages can work but only if both partners are strong and supportive of each other. Both could face problems / resentment from their wider families and it is imperative that they stand up to that.

From what you have told us it does not seem as if this young man is able to do that yet. If you are convinced that your relationship is meant to be then please go slowly and see how it works if / when he is working away.

From those mixed race relationships that I have seen there is a large proportion of Asian men who are happy to date / play around with a white girl but would never marry against their family wishes / outside their culture.

The best of luck to you whichever way you decide to act.


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## learning112

Thanks. We've only known each other 6 months; it's fine for him to say he wants to wait & see how things go before any serious step like moving in together or engagement. But I get the feeling he has a passive approach towards the whole thing- "if things work out with us" means " if I happen to get a job super close to you for the next 2 years, & if my parents happen to be ok with us." That's not a foundation for a good RL, you know? He has to say "I want to try to make things work & am prepared to make sacrifices, not stay with you only if all our cards align perfectly by chance & it's easy." he doesn't have to be willing to introduce me to the family yet before seeing how long distance is going to work for us. But he has to be willing to sacrifice family disapproval for me when we do get to that point. If he can never see himself doing that then I think I'd be wasting my time


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## turnera

I still think you're expecting too much too soon. Just relax and enjoy any time you have together and see where it goes.


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## Wiserforit

I'm in a bi-racial marriage. I'd have left her in a heartbeat if she had hesitated to introduce me to her family, and vice-versa.

Telling you he can't live without you but at the same time he can't bear to tell his parents he is with an inferior race - manipulative mumbo jumbo.


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## learning112

It does make sense to wait to deal with his parents until we know in 3 months if we're happy with a long distance RL, & whether or not it'll continue for another 2 years due to his job. But if he really has little intention to ever stand up against his family for me, then I don't want to wait around now if it's irrelevant & he's eventually going to leave me anyhow. This is so confusing!!! I do not quite know what he's thinking or why he just didn't leave things as "friends" the way we were when I was about to move'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

It helps to understand his culture. VERY paternal, the oldest man rules, and no one else has a voice (from what I've witnessed). You literally have no right to stand up to the parent, you HAVE to have their blessing. When our friends' father died, the oldest son 'took over,' and he promptly told his younger brother that he couldn't marry OR have kids until he had done so. And they all did what he said. Him even dating outside their culture is scary for him, and I imagine, unless they're really cool and hip parents, he expects them to reject you flat out. Standing up to them is MUCH harder than it would be for, say, Americans.


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## Wiserforit

learning112 said:


> It does make sense to wait to deal with his parents until we know in 3 months if we're happy with a long distance RL, & whether or not it'll continue for another 2 years due to his job.


No, it doesn't. 



> But if he really has little intention to ever stand up against his family for me, then I don't want to wait around now if it's irrelevant & he's eventually going to leave me anyhow. This is so confusing!!! I do not quite know what he's thinking or why he just didn't leave things as "friends" the way we were when I was about to move'
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's only confusing if you have no self respect.


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## learning112

turnera said:


> Him even dating outside their culture is scary for him, and I imagine, unless they're really cool and hip parents, he expects them to reject you flat out. Standing up to them is MUCH harder than it would be for, say, Americans.


Right. I'm sure this guy always assumed he'd go along with what his parents wanted for marriage. I mean, he didn't even live in America until a year ago. I doubt he envisioned himself falling in love with an American girl and having to face all this. I think he tried to convince himself he could just be friends with me, go back to being perfectly compliant w/his parents, and it'd be fine. But when he said he got very depressed/cried about it every day... and then suddenly tells me that he wants to try things between us again because he can't live without me... and then I move so now we have to do long distance and see if it works... I just think with this guy, it's a lot to process at once.


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## turnera

And I question anyone who falls in love that quickly. You haven't had time to learn a fraction of what you need to know about the other person. It sounds more like lust than love.


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## learning112

turnera said:


> And I question anyone who falls in love that quickly. You haven't had time to learn a fraction of what you need to know about the other person.



Which is why I don't udnerstand why some are insisting that he should be willing to stand up to his parents for me right now... How does he really know I'm worth it & we're going to work out long term?!


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## Starstarfish

So - what answers were you looking for then?


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## Racer

It is a interesting problem. A co-worker of mine was in the same situation. Because his parents were in a higher caste, arranged marriages are the norm. He’d get the resume’s, the families would interview, etc. Actually they were pretty impressive... doctors, lawyers, engineers, and attractive / intelligent. Thing is, he loved a white girl here. 

I know a lot do not understand how serious it can really be. Being disowned by your family over this is a real possibility. Basically never allowed to go home. He however was lucky.... He was older (26) and was sort of getting rejected by prospects because there were real concerns about why he wasn’t married yet. He was becoming an “old maid”...lol. 

So his parents became open to the idea that being married was more important than the arranged marriage to a good Indian family and they also weren’t shackled by national hate issues (his plan had always been to live in the US and they didn’t have a problem with that). His now wife essentially had to go through an interview as well as meeting her family to establish healthy values...  

They blessed the union and they love her... and they love their grandchildren. It is a good marriage. He probably knows best how liberal his parents and family are.


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## learning112

To be honest, I'm just trying to think through this whole complicated, confusing situation. So far I've come up with this:

1) It's too early to know if we want to get married (obviously), and I also think that makes it too early to expect him to tell his parents about us.

2) I need an honest discussion with him to know if he would ever actually stand up to his parents & consider us long-term seriously. Otherwise, I'm out and going to start dating others.

3) If his response is "I don't know right now what I'd do if my parents disapprove or we end up long distance for another 2 years," then... I'm gonna be even more confused about what to do!


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello Learning,

You see, your "learning" and questioning your boyfriends true intensions._(I'm sorry, you chose this username, so I'm going to have some fun along way)_, 



> To be honest, I'm just trying to think through this whole complicated, confusing situation. So far I've come up with this:
> 
> 1) It's too early to know if we want to get married (obviously), and I also think that makes it too early to expect him to tell his parents about us.


I think you need to learn more about each other before even going down the route of marriage, just date each other for as long as you can, and when the time is right you can both decide what the next step is in your relationship. *NO*, I disagree *YOU*, *HE *has to tell his parents about you, see my response below.



> 2) I need an honest discussion with him to know if he would ever actually stand up to his parents & consider us long-term seriously. Otherwise, I'm out and going to start dating others.


Learning, if you were my girlfriend I would have introduced you to my parents a few weeks after we met, that shows *YOU *that I am *COMMITTED TO YOU *and my parents that I have a new girlfriend and if they have any problems with me *dating YOU *they need to speak their minds now. Remember it’s only a few weeks into our relationship _(You lucky thing!)_. Everyone has now dealt their cards. 

*Learning, if I said to you that I'm an Indian man, would you want to date me or your boyfriend after you have read my paragraph above ?* 



> 3) If his response is "I don't know right now what I'd do if my parents disapprove or we end up long distance for another 2 years," then... I'm gonna be even more confused about what to do!


Your boyfriend has not done this yet, that’s why I want you to tell him to *MAN-UP and tell his parents about you now*. If his parents object to your relationship right now, then now is the time to find out before your boyfriend begins his long distance job. This is *NOT* an *IF question “Learning”*, it should be a *WHEN* are you going to tell your parents about our relationship question.

Regards, FTP


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## learning112

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> If his parents object to your relationship right now, then now is the time to find out before your boyfriend begins his long distance job.


I agree with you!! I know it's a bad thing in general to pressure a partner - ex. women who pressure their guy to propose before he is ready on his own - or in my case, to stand up and tell the family when we've not even been together half a year. But all I care about is that he is honest about his intentions so I don't waste my time. If he really doesn't see us together long-term, then I assumed he wouldn't be so romantic with me all the time and say, "Let's see how things go and if we feel that things between us are permanent then I'll tell my family." But I guess there's no way to know for sure other than ask him?


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Learning,



learning112 said:


> I agree with you!! I know it's a bad thing in general to pressure a partner - ex. women who pressure their guy to propose before he is ready on his own - or in my case, to stand up and tell the family when we've not even been together half a year.
> 
> *Telling family and friends that you are in new relationship should not seen as pressure to do the right thing, but to celebrate this new relationship. Your boyfriend should be happy he is with you and want to tell everyone, family, friends about you. I would!*
> 
> But all I care about is that he is honest about his intentions so I don't waste my time.
> 
> *Well said!*
> 
> If he really doesn't see us together long-term, then I assumed he wouldn't be so romantic with me all the time and say, "Let's see how things go and if we feel that things between us are permanent then I'll tell my family."
> 
> But I guess there's no way to know for sure other than ask him?
> 
> *Now you are talking.....*


*1.* Where are his parents / family by the way?
*2.* Do his friends know about you?
*3.* Do your family and friends know about him?

Regards, FTP


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## learning112

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Hi Learning,
> 
> 
> 
> *1.* Where are his parents / family by the way?
> *2.* Do his friends know about you?
> *3.* Do your family and friends know about him?
> 
> Regards, FTP


Hi FTP- his family is in India... His friends definitely know about me & when we were broken up 1 of his best buddies approached me & said "I just want u to know, for however long this current situation lasts (??), this is just really hard for him right now." and my family & friends all know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cdelta02

Its a different culture. Cut him some slack. try out your Long D relationship first. Then let him open up to his parents. 

Even if his parent accept you (now or later), they will go through a major culture shock even if they dont show it and are graceful about it. No point in putting them through it without confirmation that your relationship is going to last.

Also there is a right way to doing this and a wrong way. Remember his parents are back in India and communication is going to be limited to specific times when everyone is awake given time zones and will also be predominantly phone with some Skype. This is not the situation where you bring up big news, all that will do is cause them to have a lot of mental movies, what ifs etc. They will not be able to see you, understand you and feel how good a person you are. All they will be thinking of is what you COULD be and most of those imaginations MIGHT end up negative. So, IMHO, even if your relationship lasts, you two have to open up to his parents just before they come to the US or just before the two of you take an India trip. Dont let their imaginations run wild. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Learning,



learning112 said:


> Hi FTP- his family is in India... His friends definitely know about me & when we were broken up 1 of his best buddies approached me & said "I just want u to know, for however long this current situation lasts (??), this is just really hard for him right now." and my family & friends all know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have been together for 6 months now, and everyone except his parents/family knows of his relationship with you. Okay he is from a different culture than you, I happen to be an expert on this culture, I am from it.

Think about this…

A coin has two sides, if you can see both sides, then it is a coin. If you can only see one side, is it a coin?
Answer: _No, because it has no value, therefore it is not a coin._

Your relationship is like the coin right now, and that needs to change. Long distance relationships can only work, if everyone is aware you are in one to begin with. Both families can provide you and him with support and guidance when you need it, once your long distance relationship begins.

His “buddies” are clearly siding with him and asking you to wait for him until, he what? Wakes up, man’s up, tells his parents/family in India about your 6 months relationship, what if decides he cannot hurt his parents/family AGAIN, and leaves you AGAIN. Remember he was the one that walked out on you because he could not handle upsetting his parents/family in India the first time. 

*Did he even try to talk to them about you? *

Or did he know beforehand that his parents/family would object to his relationship with you. You have been doing enough “slacking”; it is time for him to show you the same commitment you have been doing so far.

Try this: What if you choose to continue in this relationship for the next 2 years without his parents/family knowing about it, and one day his parents contact him saying they have a girl they want him to settle down with? It is now over 2.5 years and you should know each other well enough to take the next step. 

*What will your boyfriend do now his parents want him to see this girl?* 

This is age of the Internet, we now have instant global communications using various technologies, your boyfriend cannot use the line “I cannot get in touch with my parents/family because of the time difference” between USA East/West to India, that is a load of rubbish. My family live on the East of the USA and we Facetime/video chat all the time.

*What do your parents/family/friends say about this? They must have an opinion. *

*You know what you want from this relationship, does he?*


----------



## learning112

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Try this: What if you choose to continue in this relationship for the next 2 years without his parents/family knowing about it, and one day his parents contact him saying they have a girl they want him to settle down with?


I just hate being demanding, saying it's now or never, wanting him to tell his parents after only 6 months. But the alternative of him stringing me along for years is terrible. So I wonder whether I should tell him that right now, I understand that we need time to figure out if we want a long-term commitment... but if he isn't willing to say anything about me to his parents & I have no idea if this could really last, then I need to move on.


----------



## Starstarfish

Well - or have him answer honestly - is the reason he won't mention you to his parents that he already knows he's signed up for an arranged marriage?


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## learning112

Starstarfish said:


> Well - or have him answer honestly - is the reason he won't mention you to his parents that he already knows he's signed up for an arranged marriage?


That wouldn't make sense since he brought up -with no pressure from me - that he wants to try having a relationship again and tell his parents if things between us go well and get very serious.

I haven't been asking him about this, and he isn't trying to sleep with me/have some ulterior motive, so there's no reason for him to tell me this otherwise.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

This is an awful lot of drama for something that is only six months old. Take it as a sign that this isnt meant to be.


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## learning112

3Xnocharm said:


> This is an awful lot of drama for something that is only six months old. Take it as a sign that this isnt meant to be.


It's just drama based on difficult logistical factors -- parents that will be hard to convince, and long distance for some period of time. Not drama because he and I don't click perfectly.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Learning,



learning112 said:


> *I just hate being demanding*, saying it's now or never, wanting him to tell his parents after only 6 months. But the alternative of him stringing me along for years is terrible. So I wonder whether I should tell him that right now, I understand that we need time to figure out if we want a long-term commitment... but if he isn't willing to say anything about me to his parents & I have no idea if this could really last, then I need to move on.


Excuse ME! "*I just hate being demanding*" and who told YOU that?

Are you afraid of him?
Can you tell me your age group, for both of you?

Learning, you answered your own question. Read it again!


----------



## learning112

I came home, his work stress reached a breaking point- he made multiple mistakes that almost could jeopardize his chance of getting any new job anywhere this fall. He wanted to go out one night & sounded all happy to see me. 15 minutes into the night he starts freaking out about failing at work & said he needs space for now to focus on not ruining his career & also he just doesn't know how we can do long distance & also his family would make life so difficult for me. I started telling him he was selfish for Stringing me along all this time. He said "I love you. Youre the love of my life. I just need time to get all my failures under control & I don't want you waiting around for me alone in a strange city in the meantime so you should date others and If we're meant to be we will."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Learning,

Well done! You see, his TRUE COLOURS are showing.



> I came home, his work stress reached a breaking point- he made multiple mistakes that almost could jeopardize his chance of getting any new job anywhere this fall. He wanted to go out one night & sounded all happy to see me. 15 minutes into the night he starts freaking out about failing at work & said *he needs space for now to focus on not ruining his career* & also *he just doesn't know how we can do long distance *& also *his family would make life so difficult for me.* *I started telling him he was selfish for Stringing me along all this time.:smthumbup:*


He, He, He, His, My..... Selfish isn't he! Notice there's no You or US.



> He said "I love you. Youre the love of my life. I just need time to get all *my failures under control *& I don't want you waiting around for me alone in a strange city in the meantime so you should date others and If we're meant to be we will."


....and how long do have to wait until her controls his failures? Until he MAN's-UP! Until the end time? When? 
He's showing you his TRUE COLOURS Learning, AGAIN! 

His career etc...
His family etc...
His failures etc...

Where's YOU and HIM (US).

*In plan ENGLISH he is telling YOU he can't handle being with YOU AGAIN! because of the above.*

He's placed his cards on the table and it's now time for you to do the same. He's letting you go again, a second time. The Bas1ard! *
He doesn't love you, if he did, he would have NEVER used those words, this man(boy) is not worth it, Learning!*


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## learning112

> He doesn't love you, if he did, he would have NEVER used those words, this man(boy) is not worth it, Learning![/COLOR][/B]


But just last week he was taking steps toward Trying & just last night he called me the love of his life. In the meantime he's had severe life stressors for work & he said "I feel like everything is falling out of my control & now I'm afraid to just disappoint you too." People react differently to stress & since he's never had a relationship I think he may still need more time (as he said) to figure things out. I can't just move on after someone calls me the love of his life
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> But just last week he was taking steps toward Trying & just last night he called me the love of his life. In the meantime he's had severe life stressors for work & he said "I feel like everything is falling out of my control & now I'm afraid to just disappoint you too."
> 
> Good luck trying.....
> 
> People react differently to stress & since he's never had a relationship I think he may still need more time (as he said) to figure things out. I can't just move on after someone calls me the love of his life
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You sound young, how old are the both of you?


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## learning112

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> You sound young, how old are the both of you?


Both 25
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## learning112

learning112 said:


> Both 25
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now he's telling me that he's so sorry but just overwhelmed with work pressure $ can't be in a relationship right NOW (instead of ever). And that he just didn't want to make me think things would be easy for us. ????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> Now he's telling me that he's so sorry but just overwhelmed with work pressure $ can't be in a relationship right NOW (instead of ever). And that he just didn't want to make me think things would be easy for us. ????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Both 25, you’re still young, there are plenty of real men out there that know what they want. You're acting like an adult and he's acting like he has no idea what the hell wants right now. I'm sorry Learning let him go now. Stop wasting your time with this lost cause.


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## learning112

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Both 25, you’re still young, there are plenty of real men out there that know what they want. You're acting like an adult and he's acting like he has no idea what the hell wants right now. I'm sorry Learning let him go now. Stop wasting your time with this lost cause.


I cannot consider him a lost cause when he calls me the love of his life & just says that he doesn't want me to think things would be easy for us/ not that he's walking away & doesn't want me at all. I can't ignore him calling me the love of his life & continually still seeming to care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> Now he's telling me that he's so sorry but just overwhelmed with work pressure $ can't be in a relationship right NOW (instead of ever). And that he just didn't want to make me think things would be easy for us. ????


You are making a very common mistake. You are believing his words and not his actions. Actions do speak louder than words.

His words "You are the love of my life" do not jive with his actions. He words are an attempt to let you down easy and to make himself feel like less of a cad.

His actions say that you are not the love of his life. A man does not tell the love of his life to date others and act on it by pulling away from him.

What's happening is that you keep pressuring him by wanting to continue the relationship. He told you that he does not want to date you. He's taking time/space from you. 

The best thing you can do right now is to treat him according to the 180.. pull away from him. Do not talk to him. Do not discuss your relationship with him.

What happens with a lot of men is that they date a woman for a while and romance her like crazy. They are in love and they promise her the moon and the sun. Then all the sudden one day the guy needs space... they give the speeches he's giving you right now. 

Then, after a few months or weeks .. he might suddenly decide that he loves you, needs you, cannot live with out and he will come back to you. If he comes back he will be yours forever. But if he finds that he can live without you he will not contact you again.

The worse thing you could do right now is to beg him to stay with you; argue that you love him so he cannot go, yada yada yada. Just tell him that ok, he needs space, bye.

Go one with your life. Let him go. If this relationship was meant to be he will be back. And maybe when he comes back you might want him back. But maybe you will not. It's a risk he is taking.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> I cannot consider him a lost cause when he calls me the love of his life & just says that he doesn't want me to think things would be easy for us/ not that he's walking away & doesn't want me at all. I can't ignore him calling me the love of his life & continually still seeming to care.


Words are worth their weight in gold. Exactly how much do you think words weigh? They are hot air.

It's his actions that count. He's trying to let you down easy. And you are not taking the hint.

When he says that things will not be easy for you and he, he means that he intends to follow the traditions of his culture. You do not fit into the traditions of his culture. In his culture they do not marry outside of their culture and race.


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## learning112

Thanks, that mostly makes sense, except he did already break up with me once before and ended up so depressed that he came after me, wanted to try again, after I let him go. At present I really almost think he's depressed/very emotionally unhealthy with what's going on at work/his jeopardized future. He keeps saying how he would never date others & I'm the love of his life but he just feels this is one more thing he could fail at right now. I think If he actually didn't want to be with me he'd end contact. It only took a few hours before he backtracked & said "I'm sorry, I just didn't want to make you think things would be easy for us."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> I came home, his work stress reached a breaking point- he made multiple mistakes that almost could jeopardize his chance of getting any new job anywhere this fall. He wanted to go out one night & sounded all happy to see me. 15 minutes into the night he starts freaking out about failing at work & said he needs space for now to focus on not ruining his career & also he just doesn't know how we can do long distance & also his family would make life so difficult for me. I started telling him he was selfish for Stringing me along all this time. *He said *"*I love you. Youre the love of my life. I just need time to get all my failures under control & I don't want you waiting around for me alone in a strange city in the meantime so you should date others and If we're meant to be we will.*"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





learning112 said:


> I cannot consider him a lost cause when he calls me the love of his life & just says that he doesn't want me to think things would be easy for us/ not that he's walking away & doesn't want me at all. I can't ignore him calling me the love of his life & continually still seeming to care.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Learning than I suggest YOU get ready for a roller-coaster ride. I can tell you now if, I was your boyfriend not introducing you to my parents/family 6 months into the relationship; are a sign of disrespect towards my parents/family. In turn they would think I was ashamed of you therefore I’m not really serious about you. Consider that one!

Saying the words “I love you…” is just words he needs to turns those words into action by telling his parents/family. 

Learning has he told his parents about you? YES / NO
Simple answer.

I’m sorry, I’m now lost for words trying to get through to you.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> .....*I started telling him he was selfish for Stringing me along all this time. * *He said *"I love you. Youre the love of my life. I just need time to get all my failures under control & I don't want you waiting around for me alone in a strange city in the meantime so you should date others and If we're meant to be we will."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





learning112 said:


> Thanks, that mostly makes sense, *except he did already break up with me once before and ended up so depressed that he came after me, wanted to try again, after I let him go. *At present I really almost think he's depressed/very emotionally unhealthy with what's going on at work/his jeopardized future.
> 
> He keeps saying how he would never date others & I'm the love of his life but he just feels this is one more thing he could fail at right now. I think If he actually didn't want to be with me he'd end contact. It only took a few hours before he backtracked & said "I'm sorry, I just didn't want to make you think things would be easy for us."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly listen to EleGirl, if not you’re going to listen me……. 
(and no I’m not getting angry with you, but if I was your dad I'd kick you up the backside by now  ) 

I just realised your boyfriend sounds like has a *co-dependency problem on you*, wanting you to take away his problems for him, but he can’t because he can’t even do a simple think like tell his parents/family about YOU. Guess what learning; the pressure will come like helium balloon, once he starts dealing with his fear of upsetting his parents/family. One problem at a time and the biggest problem is his parents/family, because they are on the other side of the world. His other problems are local to him, like his Job, etc.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> Thanks, that mostly makes sense, except he did already break up with me once before and ended up so depressed that he came after me, wanted to try again, after I let him go. At present I really almost think he's depressed/very emotionally unhealthy with what's going on at work/his jeopardized future. He keeps saying how he would never date others & I'm the love of his life but he just feels this is one more thing he could fail at right now. I think If he actually didn't want to be with me he'd end contact. It only took a few hours before he backtracked & said "I'm sorry, I just didn't want to make you think things would be easy for us."


Ok, so he already broke up with you once so this is most likely not the breakup where he goes off and decides if you are the one he wants to spend his life with.

This is THE BREAKUP.... he does not want to be with you. He does not want to tell his parents about you because he is embarrassed to be with a white woman who is also not of his culture. He is not strong enough to stand up to his parents. He does not want to be with you.

I said earlier to believe his actions over his words. But when it comes to words… always believe the harshest of words a person uses… the ‘nice’ words like “you are the love of my life” are said only to buffer him, to make him feel better about himself. 

You are now trying to push yourself on him. He's told you that he does not want to be with you. He’s actions are that he is not being with you.

How much clearer can a guy be?


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## learning112

EleGirl said:


> How much clearer can a guy be?


Much clearer!
After we broke up the first time and I backed off, he came to me -- even literally finding me in person when he knew I was blowing him off. HE took me on several dates before I left where HE brought up wanting to try things long distance -- I'd assumed we were just going to stay friends at that point. Then, when I came back home the other night, HE brought up wanting to go out & seemed so excited. Until his sudden freak-out about his terrible mistakes at work & possible loss of future career advancement.

Initially the other night it was "I can't handle a relationship right now w/all this other stress, it's jsut 1 more thing I'm gonna fail at, we should see in the future and if it's meant to be it will." But how quickly he backtracks into saying "I'm sorry - I just didn't want to give you the impression things were gonna be easy for us, that's all. With everything else going on at the moment it's just too overwhelming for me to take the next step & commit"

Nothing about this makes me think it's just me pushing myself on him. Easy excuse to just blow me off forever after he learned I'd be moving.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> Much clearer!
> After we broke up the first time and I backed off, he came to me -- even literally finding me in person when he knew I was blowing him off. HE took me on several dates before I left where HE brought up wanting to try things long distance -- I'd assumed we were just going to stay friends at that point. Then, when I came back home the other night, HE brought up wanting to go out & seemed so excited. Until his sudden freak-out about his terrible mistakes at work & possible loss of future career advancement.
> 
> Initially the other night it was "I can't handle a relationship right now w/all this other stress, it's jsut 1 more thing I'm gonna fail at, we should see in the future and if it's meant to be it will." But how quickly he backtracks into saying "I'm sorry - I just didn't want to give you the impression things were gonna be easy for us, that's all. With everything else going on at the moment it's just too overwhelming for me to take the next step & commit"
> 
> Nothing about this makes me think it's just me pushing myself on him. Easy excuse to just blow me off forever after he learned I'd be moving.


He started this only after he learned you were moving? So maybe he's trying to get you to not move... to control you?


This is how many people, male and female behave when they are breaking up. They are not clear about what they want because they do not want to be the bad guy. So their words are all over the place.


If you think that we are full of it, then see what happens if you just stop talking to him. Just let him go. Start moving on in life. See if he comes back around you.


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## learning112

EleGirl said:


> He started this only after he learned you were moving? So maybe he's trying to get you to not move... to control you?


No, he knew I was under contract to move already. Since he was the one who brought up trying things long distnace & initially semeed so happy to see me the other night until his freak-out abuot work stress, I really think he may still want to be with me but is just crippled by the thought of failing both in his career & with the "love of his life" right now. I've heard about people pushing others away when dealing with crisis. If we are "friends" then he has no ability to officially actually fail me. I just don't know how I could convince him that he shouldn't be afraid of failing & I'll always love him!!

Regardless, obviously I have dates with several new men this week.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> No, he knew I was under contract to move already. Since he was the one who brought up trying things long distnace & initially semeed so happy to see me the other night until his freak-out abuot work stress, I really think he may still want to be with me but is just crippled by the thought of failing both in his career & with the "love of his life" right now. I've heard about people pushing others away when dealing with crisis.
> 
> If we are "friends" then he has no ability to officially actually fail me. I just don't know how I could convince him that he shouldn't be afraid of failing & I'll always love him!!
> 
> *Learning are now official no longer a couple?*
> 
> *Regardless, obviously I have dates with several new men this week.*
> 
> *Excuse me.....*


Dates? already? Learning please educated me on your current status of your relationship is. I'm now lost. :scratchhead:


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## learning112

Well, I understand he's under a lot of stress & uncertainty about his future w/work. although he considers me the love of his life, he says he can't take that next step & be in a committed relationship right now even though he doesn't want to date anyone else.

To me, this means I can and should start dating others without guilt.


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## Coffee Amore

learning112 said:


> Well, I understand he's under a lot of stress & uncertainty about his future w/work. although he considers me the love of his life, he says he can't take that next step & be in a committed relationship right now even though he doesn't want to date anyone else.
> 
> To me, this means I can and should start dating others without guilt.


Yes, you should date others. Please don't wait around for this man. There's no reason not to date other men. This man isn't committed to you, isn't engaged to you. Go on living your life fully and if he's really serious about you, let his ACTIONS speak for him.


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## learning112

I definitely am dating others, and yet I still wake up each morning feeling like this guy truly loves me and is just immature, in a panic over work, and afraid of failure (losing me).


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> Well, I understand he's under a lot of stress & uncertainty about his future w/work. although he considers me the love of his life, he says he can't take that next step & be in a committed relationship right now even though he doesn't want to date anyone else.
> 
> To me, this means I can and should start dating others without guilt.





learning112 said:


> I definitely am dating others, and yet I still wake up each morning feeling like this guy truly loves me and is just immature, in a panic over work, and afraid of failure (losing me).


Learning I’m so proud of you, I think I’m going to cry…., you finally “learnt” to woman-up (_sorry I couldn’t help myself I'm so happy! _….). I know you love him and he loves but he’s still a complete “plonker” for NOT seeing you and getting his act together, but there you go his choice, not yours.

Listen, stick around on TAM, you might learn something that helps your ex-boyfriend (now “plonker” friend?) how to deal with his problems. Just an idea!

Good luck with the dating game and take it very slowly thank you very much!


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## learning112

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Learning I’m so proud of you, I think I’m going to cry…., you finally “learnt” to woman-up (_sorry I couldn’t help myself I'm so happy! _….). I know you love him and he loves but he’s still a complete “plonker” for NOT seeing you and getting his act together, but there you go his choice, not yours.
> 
> Listen, stick around on TAM, you might learn something that helps your ex-boyfriend (now “plonker” friend?) how to deal with his problems. Just an idea!
> 
> Good luck with the dating game and take it very slowly thank you very much!


Aw that made me smile! I'm very set on going on these dates but it's still hard trust me. I know my ex is going thru a horrible career phase & I know the stress will die down in a few months. I believe him when he calls me the love of his life & I can see why he wouldn't have the strength Right now, given the other super stressful things going on, to stand up to his parents (he already said it'll be them vs me and he just cant take that next step right now with everything g else going on). When I know he hasn't written things off completely & keeps assuring me he isn't planning to date anyone else, it's very hard to totally cut him out of my heart
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coffee Amore

I'm glad you are dating others even if it's hard to move on. If he asks, tell him the truth. You're seeing other people. You and he aren't exclusive, so you're casually seeing others. That might just be what he needs to hear from you. Who knows that might give him the backbone to make a stand where you're concerned.


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## learning112

He was telling me the other day when he was all upset that he didn't want me to sit around alone waiting for him & I should be able to date others & then if we're meant to be we will. Do I think he'd actually like to know I'm doing it? Probably not, so I'm not going to alert him to it - seems mean and unnecessary


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## Wiserforit

learning112 said:


> I can't ignore him calling me the love of his life & continually still seeming to care.


Yes you can. 

In fact, it is an important test for how gullible you are. A person needs to be able to see through words that don't match actions.

Life mates don't inject drama into your life. They make your life easier, enable your productivity to increase. You sleep sounder, feel more fresh and alive.

Cut the rope on this dead weight.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> He was telling me the other day when he was all upset that he didn't want me to sit around alone waiting for him & I should be able to date others & then if we're meant to be we will. Do I think he'd actually like to know I'm doing it? Probably not, so I'm not going to alert him to it - seems mean and unnecessary


Well, at least he's being honest with you about something for a change. Yes! In his frame of mind he's not ready to commit to you short or long term, he just knows that he loves you. He's messed up in the head, and you know it. What, are you shy, you mean sex with another man; of course don't tell him that! Really, it isn't any of his business anyway who you date and have sex with _(with protection of course!)_? Nope! Not one bit!


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## Westwind

I think he should have already talked with his parents to see how they react, not saying you or them, but just check it out about dating non Indian women. What I am really thinking here is that the problem is not probably about his parents, but his insecurities. I am thinking, though, that since this is now a long distance relationship and you will be dating others, that he should also consider dating other women. The way to save this relationship is for you to move to where he is, but also keep in mind that you will have to learn how to deal with a man that is probably insecure by nature.


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## Coffee Amore

learning112 said:


> He was telling me the other day when he was all upset that he didn't want me to sit around alone waiting for him & I should be able to date others & then if we're meant to be we will. Do I think he'd actually like to know I'm doing it? Probably not, so I'm not going to alert him to it - seems mean and unnecessary


You shouldn't overshare personal information. There is no reason for him to know if you're being intimate with someone or not. That's YOUR business, not his. I wouldn't even answer such a question if he asked.


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## Anonymous07

Cross culture relationships can work, BUT only if both people in the relationship really want it to work and don't put too much worry/thought into what their families think about it. I'm white and my husband is Hispanic(born and raised in Mexico). I'm the first white person to marry into their family, so it was a bit different for them with me around. Luckily, my in-laws accepted me with open arms and we have a good relationship. I can't imagine having to deal with a bf who was so worried about what his parents thought of my race. 



learning112 said:


> He was telling me the other day when he was all upset that he didn't want me to sit around alone waiting for him & I should be able to date others & then if we're meant to be we will. Do I think he'd actually like to know I'm doing it? Probably not, so I'm not going to alert him to it - seems mean and unnecessary


I wouldn't overshare personal details, but I'd be open about dating other people. I'm glad you are doing so, as it doesn't seem like he has the back bone to stand up to his family.


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## learning112

Westwind said:


> the problem is not probably about his parents, but his insecurities.


This makes sense, since first he's constantly talking about how terrible he is at work & won't ever get a new position... Then he says he can't be in a long distance relationship with me "right now" because "I'm failing at everything right now, and it's just one more thing I'll fail at." Those were his exact words! He said things like, "Maybe I'll be preoccupied with work stress one night & not pick up your phone call, or I won't be available for the 2 days you come home one weekend, and you'll get mad at me."


----------



## All of a sudden

I think any person should tell their parents when they love and respect a girl and love them.


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## learning112

but maybe it really is fear of failure...


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> but maybe it really is fear of failure...


Those who have failed appreciate what true success is more than those who have never failed at anything.


----------



## learning112

I know what I should do is continue to date (2 more first dates coming up) & not contact my ex at all. But I miss him so much & there's beenso much back & forth over the last 2 weeks (he brings up wanting to try long distance, then freaks out once starts failing badly at work & says he cant handle relationship now, then says I'm the love of his life, then says he just didn't want me to think thibga would be easy) that I just want tO talk to him in a calmer moment about what he is actually thinking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anonymous07

learning112 said:


> I know what I should do is continue to date (2 more first dates coming up) & not contact my ex at all. But I miss him so much & there's beenso much back & forth over the last 2 weeks (he brings up wanting to try long distance, then freaks out once starts failing badly at work & says he cant handle relationship now, then says I'm the love of his life, then says he just didn't want me to think thibga would be easy) that I just want tO talk to him in a calmer moment about what he is actually thinking.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If I were you, I'd leave this drama behind and continue to just date other people. You "miss him" because it's easier to continue on with the same guy than to start over looking for someone else, but that does not mean he is the right guy for you. Do you really want to be with a guy who is so incredibly insecure? He won't all of the sudden become confident and it will get old fast. That is something else to think about.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> I know what I should do is continue to date (2 more first dates coming up) & not contact my ex at all. But I miss him so much & there's beenso much back & forth over the last 2 weeks (he brings up wanting to try long distance, then freaks out once starts failing badly at work & says he cant handle relationship now, then says I'm the love of his life, then says he just didn't want me to think thibga would be easy) that I just want tO talk to him in a calmer moment about what he is actually thinking.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Learning, I remember having this talk with you before. Listen to *Anonymous07* post I can't better those words, so I won't, but just agree them as you should..... :smthumbup:

Did I mention how proud I am of you? I think I did some where ? You know my keyboard almost caught fire because of all our posts together, oh yes, I kid you, not. 

All your doing is going on a date! You don't have to have sex or anything like that, just a simple date. You take care of yourself and let him sort himself out.


----------



## learning112

You're right, and I'm looking forward to it! 

It all just feels strange. Haven't talked to my ex in 3 days (which we've done a lot before & I know how busy work is), but he was the one who said we'll talk, so I guess I'm supposed to give him space & date others & not contact him? I don't really know what I'd say anyhow?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Westwind

Let him be. He needs to settle in where he is.


----------



## Coffee Amore

learning112 said:


> You're right, and I'm looking forward to it!
> 
> It all just feels strange. Haven't talked to my ex in 3 days (which we've done a lot before & I know how busy work is), but he was the one who said we'll talk, so I guess I'm supposed to give him space & date others & not contact him? I don't really know what I'd say anyhow?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It must feel strange to not talk to him, but that's what you must do, so don't call him. He can't miss someone if that person is a constant presence in his life. You need to get busy with living a fulfilling life. Date others. Do interesting and fun things on your personal time. Make new friends. Find a new hobby. Travel, read, exercise. If he calls you he calls you, but don't waste anymore energy on what his motivations are, whether he'll call, is he thinking of you, etc. I know it's easier said than done, but you have to refocus your attention away from him.


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## learning112

Coffee Amore said:


> It must feel strange to not talk to him, but that's what you must do, so don't call him. He can't miss someone if that person is a constant presence in his life.


I agree & I'm glad I'm dating others, focusing on work, etc. I've just had so much back & forth with him that I wish he'd get his thoughts together for 5 minutes and give me something clear. Like, he doesn't want to bring things up to his parents until things with his career aren't catastrophic, because it's too much turmoil for them & him at once -- and they'll just question why he's in a relationship if he's flailing at work. Or, he didn't mean that he actually wants me to date others, but he just feels worried that he doesn't have what it takes to keep me happy long distance right now when he has to worry 100% about his career - and has never even been in a relationship anyhow. Something clear and consistent, which he hasnt given me.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Learning,



> I agree & I'm glad I'm dating others, focusing on work, etc. I've just had so much back & forth with him that I wish he'd get his thoughts together for 5 minutes and give me something clear. Like, *he doesn't want to bring things up to his parents until things with his career aren't catastrophic, because it's too much turmoil for them & him at once* -- and they'll just question why he's in a relationship if he's flailing at work.





> Or, he didn't mean that he actually wants me to date others, but he just feels worried that he doesn't have what it takes to keep me happy long distance right now when *he has to worry 100% about his career* - and has *never even been in a relationship anyhow*. Something clear and consistent, which he hasn't given me.


He won’t tell you this himself but I think you've managed to work out it yourself. His job and how successful he is in it, is semi-connected to his parents/family back home. He has to *SUCCEED *or bring some kind of shame to his parents/family for all the effort they have put in him. I'm not saying this happens to all of them but the pressure *"to be all you can be"* is very strong for some. Nothing else must come in the way of that, not even a social life or even a girlfriend. 

However, he met you, and you were never part of that but he fell for you and you for him, that’s why he won’t tell his parents/family about you. If he is *FAILS *at *WORK*, who do think is going to get the blame for it, *HIM *or *YOU*, if he tells his parents about *YOU*?

Read *Coffee Amore* last _*post#85*_ again, I can’t better those words, because those words are also my words. 

You need to let go and get on with your life.


----------



## yellowstar

My husband and I are different races, there's no way in hell that it could have worked out if we both weren't comfortable and proud to introduce each other to our own parents.


----------



## learning112

I think all of you are totally right in what you're saying, I just also think it's timing. And a few months in the grand scheme of things won't really make a difference, if he thinks he needs to concentrate fully on work right now and his parents would be even more disaproving of a relationship now anyhow -- since he's supposed to be focusing on his future. I just want to know if he's intending to tell them ever. That's the part I'm unclear on.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Learning,

*From this Post#1*



learning112 said:


> Originally he told me it could not happen in his family until we were very serious (right before getting engaged). Then he broke up with me saying his parents would never approve & he didn't want to hurt them. However, he became very depressed for months after he left me. Now he is asking if we can get back together because he's found he just can't be without me.
> 
> He said it's a huge step & right now is too soon, when he's only known me 6 months total and it'll be 3 more months before he knows where he'll be stationed for *work for the next 2 years* (we might be long distance for all that time!). But I want to decide how long I'm willing to wait for our relationship to progress to the next level... And if realistically he's ever planning on standing up to his parents for me anyhow!


*To this Post#89*



learning112 said:


> I think all of you are totally right in what you're saying, I just also think it's timing. And a few months in the grand scheme of things won't really make a difference, if he thinks he needs to concentrate fully on work right now and his parents would be even more disaproving of a relationship now anyhow -- since he's supposed to be focusing on his future. I just want to know if he's intending to tell them ever. That's the part I'm unclear on. *(FTP:That's the $64000 dollar question.)*


*Date for the next two years*, and if you still have the same feelings for him then look him up, or he’ll contact you when he’s reached that position in life where he no longer feels obligated to his parents/family back home. 

_PS. My keyboard is on fire, you owe me a new one! _


----------



## learning112

THIS IS CRAZY. We were talking earlier, he was saying how he just didn't want to make me think things would be easy, and right now he needs to be alone, and he didnt think there was much chance of us being able to get married later. Then I said something else, & he sent back a text saying oh, we definitely can't. Said in that text that he planned to now leave me alone for a while until I was ready to forgive him for everything. 

Well in a crazy twist... My phone battery died (it's an old model, not a smartphone) & all I knew was that he'd texted me -- I had no idea what it said. So I sent a message on Yahoo! chat saying "Hey my phone's dead, so any communication you wanted to send me, just send through here." He started talkign to me like normal. I mentioned several times, "I know you texted before but I was never able to see it." He kept carrying on this wonderful convo with me. Finally I said "Was your text anything important?" He said "No not at all -- I'll talk to you soon and let me know if you need help setting up your new art easel after you buy it," etc.

Once I finally had access to a phone charger, I rehcharged my phone, saw his text, and freaked out. Did he just go back on his own words within 2 hours and pretend they never happened????


----------



## EleGirl

He's on an emotional rollercoaster. You keep getting on that thing with him.


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## learning112

He cant follow through with staying away from me for more than 2 hours!!!


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> He cant follow through with staying away from me for more than 2 hours!!!


I’ve lost track of what to call your partner so…
(Boyfriend/ex-boyfriend/friend whatever….) = *Man friend*

Ele took the words right out of my mouth! You need to Woman-up in this relationship as he is truly incapable of making any kind of true commitment to YOU in the short or long term. He is in fact a “*Yoyo man*” one minute he’s close to you talking about the both of you and the other minute he’s moved away from you.

I posted this on another thread but also relates here.

Learning your current state of mind is: 
*“Word(s) + Action(s) = Result(s)”*

Your man-friend only knows how to use “*words*”. Can you honestly say with your heart your man-friend is on the same equation as you, if the answer is NO than walk away?


----------



## Westwind

If you back off, he will come running and if you show interest he will run the other way. If you date another guy, that will really make him run towards you so do not tell him if you have another fellow of interst. I suppose you could really scare the wits out of him and tell him you want a baby soon.


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## Starstarfish

If you really don't want him to contact you for a while, you could make it a lot harder for him to get in touch with you. 

Change your phone number.


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## learning112

I don't want to stop communicating. I'm fascinated by the fact that he can't even spend 1 hour not talking to me before saying to himself never mind & telling me "Oh my text wasn't important , we'll talk again soon"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Oh Learning,

You stubborn woman....



EleGirl said:


> *He's on an emotional rollercoaster*. You keep getting on that thing with him.


*Ele, was correct about him...*



learning112 said:


> I don't want to stop communicating. *I'm fascinated by the fact that he can't even spend 1 hour not talking to me* before saying to himself never mind & telling me "Oh my text wasn't important , we'll talk again soon"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*It seems you're also on the same emotional rollercoaster as him, aren't you Learning?*

So, it boils down to this:

1. You really don't want to date other guys because you're fascinated with him, than what chance does any other guy have that goes on a date with you.

2. You know his history and his deep connection to his parents/family back in India and you're going to have to accept that he may not tell his parents/family about you for another two years. By than you'll both know enough about each other to take the next BIG step. If he matures over the next two years and he knows what he wants, YOU, than make sure 100% he fights for you and not what his parents/family want for him.

*You're just as bad as him, you're both stuck on each other, aren't you?* 

Good luck Learning...


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## In_The_Wind

I would just keep her on the side if you are that ashamed of her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## learning112

he just can't stay away for more than 1 hour. Any time he tells me we could never be together, he isn't going to talk to me for a while so I have space, etc, he rapidly changes his mind. I couldn't believe he pretended that text saying so (which he thought I never ended up reading) was "nothing important" and he'd just talk to me again soon.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> he just can't stay away for more than 1 hour. Any time he tells me we could never be together, he isn't going to talk to me for a while so I have space, etc, he rapidly changes his mind. I couldn't believe he pretended that text saying so (which he thought I never ended up reading) was "nothing important" and he'd just talk to me again soon.


I'm getting the feeling that he wants to be with you but he cannot be with you for reasons he's not telling you. This would explain the rollercoaster. 

Now what would be not be telling you? Most likely that his parents have found him a prospective wife. And being a man from a culture where this is expected he is going to marry this woman. When is the next time he's going to India or his family is coming here?

So this makes you fine for someone on the side until he marries. But you are not marriage material to him.

This is pretty common.


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## Westwind

Keeping him around to see what he will do next? Well it is a learning experience for dealing with an insecure man... Maybe you could point out how his being inconsistent bothers you, that you feel you cannot depend on an insecure man, that he needs to find himself before he tries to establish a relationship with a woman, whether white or Indian.


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## LaurenNabi

I personally dated a Saudi for four years and broke up because he refused to go push the issue against his parents and get married the end result was a lot of heartache and hurt. I am now married to a Persian man who immediately introduced me to his parents shortly after dating and so in my experience if he isn't willing to stand up to his parents for you now then he never will... I hate to say this but don't sell yourself short if he is hiding you from his family then that is an insult to you and you deserve better.


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## Coffee Amore

You need to change your phone number or find a way to block him. Why when he has said he can't be with you do you continue to chase him (sending him a message via Yahoo chat)..it makes you seem desperate for his attention, which is the wrong message to send. It probably boosts his ego too. You're still focused on a man who isn't making you a priority. There's nothing fascinating about his behavior. It's also not unique to him. It's something men who can't commit do. Like EleGirl said...get off the rollercoaster. You don't have to volunteer to be a participant of this.


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## learning112

It's not chasing, he texted ME and since I couldn't view it I sent a message on yahoo chat. He's admitted himself that the reason he can't stop talking for more than a very short time is being so in love with me. If he didn't care deeply about me then he'd stop talking & wouldn't have told me 2 weeks ago he wanted to try things long distance if he was sooo convinced he'll never go against his parents. He never stops communicating, never let's me go.

Why do I think he'll change eventually? Because in the past week has been the most stressful his career could ever ever get. Low point & he feels awful about himself & stresse & yes I can see needing to focus 100% on work temporarily & not tell your parents you have a girlfriend - which they already won't like- when their first thought will be, we'll that's why you're failing.


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## Coffee Amore

learning112 said:


> It's not chasing, he texted ME and since I couldn't view it I sent a message on yahoo chat. He's admitted himself that the reason he can't stop talking for more than a very short time is being so in love with me. If he didn't care deeply about me then he'd stop talking & wouldn't have told me 2 weeks ago he wanted to try things long distance if he was sooo convinced he'll never go against his parents. He never stops communicating, never let's me go.


You're responding to him, you're talking to him, you're trying to re-establish some way to communicate with him when your phone died. That's not the actions of someone who is moving n with her life and being indifferent to him. So if he communicates with you, you reciprocate. 

You need to stop paying attention to his words. He can tell you he loves you, that you're beautiful, that no one else has made him feel this way, that you're soulmates, etc. But his ACTIONS say something completely different. You're easily taken in by pretty words. You need to look at this from a more rational perspective (I know that's easier said than done), but his actions say something completely different from his pretty words to you. His actions say you're not important, you're not the one with whom I would have a long-term relationship or marriage, you're someone who embarrasses me so I can't introduce you to my family. That's what you need to realize. It's easier for me to see it since I'm disinterested third party with no investment in this relationship. 




learning112 said:


> Why do I think he'll change eventually? Because in the past week has been the most stressful his career could ever ever get. Low point & he feels awful about himself & stresse & yes I can see needing to focus 100% on work temporarily & not tell your parents you have a girlfriend - which they already won't like- when their first thought will be, we'll that's why you're failing.


He may or may not change. He may marry someone from his culture without ever telling you about it. He hides large parts of his life from you so how would you ever really know what is really going on with him?


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## LaurenNabi

Sounds to me you are trying to convince yourself really hard about how much he loves you. Whether or not he loves you is not the issue here... it is whether or not you have a future together and until he really does come clean with his family about you the chances are a big fat zero. In those cultures and in family that believe in arranged marriages they believe marrying for love is foolish... so a heart to heart with his family about his love for you is not going to do any good. Also men from those cultures separate romantic love from what they view for a wife... they consider them two separate things so it is very possible that while he loves you very much he does not view you as a wife material. Wife material in those cultures is not the woman you love, it is an unemotional matchmaking process that the families get together and decide so that they can bind families, profit financially ect. Getting married and producing children is a duty in those cultures and while many of those marriages do end up being loving and healthy they are not initially arranged because the couple was in love (My in-laws were arranged).
Like I said, it is possible to marry a man from one of those kinds of cultures but I have had the dead end experience and the marriage being accepted experience and all I can say is that if he is hiding you from his family chances are pretty high that it is a dead-end for you and ending a 6 year relationship is harder than ending a 6 month one (I have also known girls who dated a man before for up to 7 years and out of nowhere their boyfriend was arranged and married to a family friend over night).


----------



## learning112

Coffee Amore said:


> You need to stop paying attention to his words. He can tell you he loves you, that you're beautiful, that no one else has made him feel this way, that you're soulmates, etc. But his ACTIONS say something completely different. You're easily taken in by pretty words.


Good point. There are some actions however, very recently... he spent an hour on the internet tracking down this rare brand of paint that I really wanted for my artwork... he aparently got my new address & is mailing "something" to me... He's making it a point to show up for my half-birthday outing regardless of his own schedule. (I know it sounds dumb but there's a reason my half bday is being celebrated instead of my real.) I know they're still small actions though.


----------



## warlock07

What is a half birthday ?


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## learning112

warlock07 said:


> What is a half birthday ?



my real birthday is in december, this is 6 mos from it = half bday


----------



## warlock07

How old are you and this guy ?


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## learning112

24 & 25


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## warlock07

How did you guys meet ? And you are form ?

If there is relevant backstory post, please link it to me.


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## warlock07

And one more thing, how long is he staying in the country(?) you are in ? When did he move from India ?(Family relocated vs career)


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## learning112

We met through friends, he came here 1 year ago for work & will be staying here forever assuming he doesn't totally fail at his career ( it's in business). First dated for 4 months before he said we had to break up because of long distance (I left for a business opportunity of my own in another state, we're now hours apart). But oddly he kept Saying even as he broke up w me, in tears, "nothing has to change between us other than the obvious like not sleeping together... I'll still always take care of you... I can't imagine my life without you." then it came out a few days later that actually, he couldn't be with me because his parents thought they would arrange a marriage for Him someday. 

While broken up, he never stopped trying to stay in my life- later admitted "I just kept trying to talk to you" - and he even came to find me in person once when I was blowing him off- "because I'm just so in love with you." Right before I moved for new business job we went out a few times & he blurted out "So can we just try this long distance?" But within a week he did several catastrophic things at work, dealing w stress 90 hours a week, and said he needed time to just be Alone & get his career together- he'll know in 3 months whether promoted or not (which would embarrass his family terribly) & also what city he'll be in then. But then blurts out I'm the love of his life. And now does the things I just mentioned
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

I have a bad feeling about this. What are you feeling here ? He is obviously very confused but with regards to his family but are you upto LTR ? What do you feel about him ?

You are in the States, right ?


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## learning112

Yes, West coast. I'm very fine with LOng distance which he knows. He is terrified of failure/low self esteem in general and says "our relationshop will just be 1 more thing ill fail at right now- ill make you unhappy by forgetting to call you back one day or something"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

I do know that lot of Indian guys flake out when it comes to marriage to American women(read a popular discussion forum about this. Not sure if I can find the link but it looks like this happens with men from several countries in Africa too.). Usually these guys are those that moved to the country recently for education or for their career. 

So they date and get in relationship with the women and finally when the time comes, they go marry someone their parents chose for them. Unlike in the Western society, these guys carry a lot of guilt and responsibility for their family(so either a scumbag or sacrificing for their family). 

Now there are these other Indian guys, they are from immigrant families that already settled in the States. These guys are your regular dating pool because they much more assimilated and well adjusted the culture. It shouldn't be a problem if you are dating one of these guys


----------



## warlock07

Or your guy could be an outlier and could make this work. I am only giving you a perspective of what I read about this topic. 

You can already see the conflict between doing the right thing to do vs thing he has to do. If anything, 6 months is too early to decide anything. maybe wait out a little longer on how this develops


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

LaurenNabi said:


> Sounds to me you are trying to convince yourself really hard about how much he loves you. Whether or not he loves you is not the issue here... it is whether or not you have a future together and until he really does come clean with his family about you the chances are a big fat zero. In those cultures and in family that believe in arranged marriages they believe marrying for love is foolish... so a heart to heart with his family about his love for you is not going to do any good.
> 
> *Also men from those cultures separate romantic love from what they view for a wife... they consider them two separate things so it is very possible that while he loves you very much he does not view you as a wife material. (FTP: Well Said!)* Wife material in those cultures is not the woman you love, it is an unemotional matchmaking process that the families get together and decide so that they can bind families, profit financially ect. Getting married and producing children is a duty in those cultures and while many of those marriages do end up being loving and healthy they are not initially arranged because the couple was in love (My in-laws were arranged)
> 
> Like I said, it is possible to marry a man from one of those kinds of cultures but I have had the dead end experience and the marriage being accepted experience and all I can say is that if he is hiding you from his family chances are pretty high that it is a dead-end for you and ending a 6 year relationship is harder than ending a 6 month one (I have also known girls who dated a man before for up to 7 years and out of nowhere their boyfriend was arranged and married to a family friend over night).


Learning, 
I hope you burn Lauren’s words to memory and your heart because she has been through this and there’s no better to person to learn from than someone in the same boat as you and she has found a *MAN* that *MANNED-UP* to his parents/family. It can work if the both of you are on the same page/equation; *YOU ARE*, *he is NOT* and that’s the problem here.


----------



## LaurenNabi

I know you probably love him and leaving this situation seems hard... I wanted to die for months after my ex of four years (We even lived together for 2 of those years) moved back to Saudi Arabia without me. Literally wanted to die for months... I did not think that I would EVER love someone that much. 
Here is the value of the story though... I learned from that situation to NEVER SETTLE and when I met my now husband I laid it out on the table on the second date "I said I know it is early to talk about marriage but I refuse to end up in a situation like I was in before"... He had me on skype with his parents in Iran that night!! We were married 6 months later.


----------



## learning112

Wow. That is a really inspiring story! Thank you!!! I guess I'm just having a hard time believing that he will never take that step, since the things going on with work right now really are dramatic enough that it's awful timing for either telling his family about a relationship... or just being in one in the first place. Will be sorted out in a few months, which is the point at which he was talking about "taking the next step."

He "tried" breaking up with me before -- but since then, he has had lots of time to think/distance himself from me, but after all that time he ended up saying that "we should try this long distance" (up until the catastrophes at work last week) and I'm the love of his life - he declared he has no intention of dating anyone else, just a few days ago.


----------



## LaurenNabi

He sounds full of excuses... its up to you though for what you are willing to put up with though. The bottom line is that if he is hiding you from his family and the future of your relationship isn't very bright. 

Warlock: Yes 6 months. And I would not so much say that I am attracted to specifically Middle Eastern men as much as I am attracted to men who look the opposite of me. I am petite, blonde hair, blue eyes and fair and I am absolutely drawn to tall, bronze colored brown eyed men and 90% of the time that ends up being a foreigner. I can't help it... I am drawn to chiseled exotic men with accents


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

LaurenNabi said:


> I know you probably love him and leaving this situation seems hard... I wanted to die for months after my ex of four years (We even lived together for 2 of those years) moved back to Saudi Arabia without me. Literally wanted to die for months... I did not think that I would EVER love someone that much.
> Here is the value of the story though... I learned from that situation to NEVER SETTLE and when I met my now husband
> 
> *I laid it out on the table on the second date "I said I know it is early to talk about marriage but I refuse to end up in a situation like I was in before"... He had me on skype with his parents in Iran that night!! We were married 6 months later.*


Learning look at my past posts to YOU and Lauren has summed it up in what 3/4 posts _(Lauren! How could you! I won't forget this.....) _She put her cards on the table, Brilliant! No excuse for not telling the parents no matter where they are in this world, when this is the age of the Internet giving us all instant communications world wide.

Come on Learning, it's time to WOMAN-UP, like Lauren has!

Please Learning....


----------



## learning112

I just don't know what's reasonable to expect. He's known me for like 9 months total, and up until a year ago, he was living halfway around the world, had never been in a relationship with ANYone, didn't expect to fall in love with someone from Cali and have to ever confront his parents about it.


----------



## LaurenNabi

If he is feeding you lines like I love you and emotionally involving you the way he is then it is absolutely reasonable to expect to be treated in accordance with his words and that means whether you have been dating for 3 weeks or 9 months then it is absolutely reasonable to demand to be acknowledged by his family or leave the relationship. You are not being too pushy at all.


----------



## learning112

Do you think it is a real answer, or a lie, to say that I'm the love of his life & he isn't dating anyone else but needs several months to focus on not destroying his career or embarrassing his parents, and it's too soon to take next step right now with all the other stress going on in his life, plus the fact that we haven't even tried long distance for very long yet and don't know what will happen?

With him it's just one shock after another sometimes, like what is he going to mail me, why is he so set on attending my half-bday and finding me paints, etc


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## LaurenNabi

He sounds like he is giving you the run around too. I briefly tried online dating for a while and there was this guy that I was really into... he was supposed to be moving to my town in a few weeks, would have flowers delivered to me at work ect, promise me trips ect. Well he kept pushing the move date back and back giving me all kinds of sob stories and excuses ect... my gut was telling me that this guy was a grade A bull****ter but I wanted to believe him so bad. I finally was honest with myself and told that guy to NEVER under any circumstances contact me again because I was no longer buying what he was selling. He still tried to contact me for months after.


----------



## warlock07

learning112 said:


> Do you think it is a real answer, or a lie, to say that I'm the love of his life & he isn't dating anyone else but needs several months to focus on not destroying his career or embarrassing his parents, and it's too soon to take next step right now with all the other stress going on in his life, plus the fact that we haven't even tried long distance for very long yet and don't know what will happen?
> 
> With him it's just one shock after another sometimes, like what is he going to mail me, why is he so set on attending my half-bday and finding me paints, etc


I think he himself is confused and is doing stuff out of guilt. without any plan or meaning


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## learning112

I just don't know what I'm supposed to do when I genuinely love him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LaurenNabi

You can replace love (I don't care how deep or "true") what you can not replace is the years of your life you spend wasting settling for less than what you want or deserve.


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## learning112

I understand. I just don't feel I can move on when he's genuinely going through something extremely stressful that has an end point & he's never been in any relationship beforw
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Westwind

I think you should develop other male relationships. It will make it a lot easier to move on because you will know more about how men are, and if you stay with him, the extra experience will also help. If you do not get sexually involved with any male, then no harm done to anyone I think


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## Openminded

You are young. Continue to date others. 

If this guy is serious, and his family isn't opposed, then there is a possibility that it could work out down the road. In the meantime, live *your *life. It's the only one you control.


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## learning112

You are all right & I really am trying. I just cant help the way I felt when he told me he would be there for my half-bday with all my friends. The thought of seeing him just makes me infinitely hapy


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## diwali123

Despite my username I am not Indian. But I know that in Indian culture family is everything in a way that it is extremely difficult for westerners to understand. 
I'm not sure you aware but usually they arrange marriages for their kids, and the arrangement has to be with someone who is from their social level, group or caste. The family has to be very similar to theirs.

When I worked at the mental hospital a young woman came in with superficial cuts all over her body. She had been in a relationship with an Indian man who told her that he was going to stand up against his family and marry her.

He went back to India and his family flipped out and his mom faked a heart condition and told him if he didn't marry the girl they had chosen she was going to die. So the night that they got married, the American woman sat in her apartment and cut on herself.

We urged her to start moving on but he called her and told her that he wanted her to be his girlfriend on the side when he moved back. She was thinking about it! 

Now I'm not saying that you are going to sit there and cut on yourself but that the pull of Indian family is so hard to let go of. There are groups in India who help young couples who have had to run away from their families for not marrying who they chose. There have been people beaten and killed for not marrying the person their family chose.

When they do run away with their lover, they have to start over completely in a country where there are no governmental social supports and people rely on family for everything. 

I'm just trying to illustrate to you that this is NOT something to be taken lightly. Honestly if I were you I would move on. You have relatively little invested in this and it just doesn't seem fair to him or to you to continue on.


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## RandomDude

He's the forbidden fruit, and she's young, chances are the more we tell her to leave him the more she wants to stick with him. It's romantic after all... My STBX and I have been there.


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## learning112

It's genuine. I feel I've gone through pain and sacrificed already because of him, but it's 10000% worth the effort. He's my best friend. We clicked perfectly from the start and there is no way he would still be around -- spending my bday with me, telling me i'm the love of his life -- if he didn't feel seriously that I was worth considering a path that wont' be easiest...


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## RandomDude

The question is; what has HE sacrificed?


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## learning112

Good question.. he was like "I know with everything goin on at work the next 3 months and stress of trying to advance up the ladder, I'll just fail you in a relationship right now... Maybe youre right and I'm being a coward (by not standing up to parents etc right now) but I just cant take the next step right now given all the other things going on"

I just dont get why he's spending time finding me art supplies, asking for my new address, making sure he comes to my bday with my friends & sister, if he's so sure he wants to proceed without me.


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## RandomDude

So he was a decent guy, I wouldn't really call those sacrifices.

If he lived in another world he might have just made you and him official. But it's out of his hands, as others have mentioned the expectations of his family. To be with you he would have to choose you over his family, a sacrifice not many are willing to do. 

Even if he does decide that you're worth it, are you keen on letting him do that to himself? What can you offer him that is worth all the trouble?


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## learning112

I know that I'm someone who literally gets asked out on 3-4 dates/week. I know that I've been called "extremely attractive" & in our career sector I'm sort of like a celebrity and that's something he finds very attractive too. I know that he's told me I'm the most incredible woman he's ever met, that I have a heart of gold. Those are the things I know


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## diwali123

Seriously don't play Romeo and Juliet. 
I would start dating other people. There are many men who you can love who don't have a family standing in the way.


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## Openminded

He could very well care greatly for you. You could possibly be the love of his life. That doesn't mean he's going to go against his family's wishes. 

That's what you are downplaying and shouldn't.


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## diwali123

There is no "love of your life" or "soul mate". There are many many people you can love and who will love you.


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## learning112

People have made very good points. I guess I've been trying to figure out whether he'll actually possibly stand up for me & marry me someday. I've been using as my indicators, things like "He tried to break up w me but, in his words, could never stop talking to me because he was so in love with me." "Even after everything that happened, just 2 weeks ago he brought up trying a long distance relationship, until all hell broke loose for him at work." "He's coming to my bday celebration with all my family & friends- if he didn't want to be with me why would he do that? Either he'd avoid it because he didn't care, or he'd avoid because he'd think it'd be too difficult/painful if he intended for us to stay broken up for good."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

He isn't thinking long term. He's thinking of what feels good right now. He too could be naive about what this means for his family and his future. 
Even if he did give up his family, it's incredibly difficult to be in a marriage where one person has no support and has made sacrifices to be with the other. 

There could be an element of lust and infatuation in this as well.


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## learning112

If so then what's the point of being so set on coming to my birthday... If there's nothing serious in his mind
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

He may wish very much to be with you forever but that does *not *mean he's likely to go against his family's wishes when the time comes for an arranged marriage. 

Time will tell. In the meantime just live your life and try to stop focusing on what he does or doesn't do. And read up on Indian culture. It will help you understand what he's up against.


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## diwali123

I think you should ask him if his family already has someone picked out. Some people set things up when they are still kids.


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## diwali123

learning112 said:


> If so then what's the point of being so set on coming to my birthday... If there's nothing serious in his mind
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just like I said, he isn't thinking long term or realistically.


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## Coffee Amore

learning112 said:


> If so then what's the point of being so set on coming to my birthday... If there's nothing serious in his mind
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he comes to your birthday, he comes to your birthday. Don't read some grand gesture into it. I think you're reading a lot into the simple things he does for you. The important things he doesn't do for you, you rationalize and ignore. I get why you do it..I really do. 
He could come to your birthday without intending anything long-term or serious in his mind. Just don't get your hopes up too high...


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## learning112

No, they don't. We've discussed that. Lately his dad has just been saying how he wants him to get married so he can retire comfortably? So my ex has been talking to me about saving $$ up (on his own, independently of a marriage) to accomplish that for his dad? 

My ex just says his family would not be nice to me & he doesn't want me to go through that badness


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## diwali123

Just something interesting to read
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/


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## Openminded

If he has said his family would not be nice to you then he knows for certain they will never accept you. Unless he's willing to cut his entire family out of his life (and that's highly unlikely) then you are not who he's going to marry. Life is not a fairy tale.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> No, they don't. We've discussed that. Lately his dad has just been saying how he wants him to get married so he can retire comfortably? So my ex has been talking to me about saving $$ up (on his own, independently of a marriage) to accomplish that for his dad?
> 
> My ex just says his family would not be nice to me & he doesn't want me to go through that badness


Re-read ALL my posts for the answer to the above!!
Re-read ALL of Lauren's posts for the answer to the above!!

etc.


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## diwali123

They want him to marry an Indian woman that they approve of.


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## TeaLeaves4

Openminded said:


> He could very well care greatly for you. You could possibly be the love of his life. That doesn't mean he's going to go against his family's wishes.
> 
> That's what you are downplaying and shouldn't.


Then why did he date her and play with her heart? Can't run with the big boys and take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## learning112

TeaLeaves4 said:


> Then why did he date her and play with her heart? Can't run with the big boys and take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


EXACTLY!! To me, it's fine if he started dating me, then said "oh crap this can't turn serious," broke up with me, the end. But no. He kept contacting me "because I was just so in love with you." Taking me out on dates, kissing me. THEN, he actually goes so far as to say we should try a long-distance relationship. You just don't "go there" (with no pressure at all from the woman) if you aren't serious about wanting a future with someone. WTF?

Then he chokes with the relationship stuff when his job went into crisis mode. But now he's back to being hell bent on spending my bday with me & my loved ones.


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## RandomDude

You're telling us all these things that we already know, sure he's a decent guy, sure he has feelings for you, but he still can't choose you over his family.

Not everything has a fairytale ending and chasing one when the odds are clearly against you is a fool's errand. The only way I can see a happy ending to all of this is if he is willing to be disowned and alienated to be with you, a sacrifice that we've already identified which he will not do.

Relationships aren't all lovey dovey, people have to take risks, have to make sacrifices. Two lovebirds may love each other to bits but many still split over a variety of reasons including their commitment to their families - post divorcees with children in particular. There comes a time when it's worth staying and there comes a time when it's better to move on.

You're hooked up in his yo-yo, and it may continue even after he marries someone else who his parents has chosen for him. Why can't you see that?


----------



## Openminded

learning112 said:


> EXACTLY!! To me, it's fine if he started dating me, then said "oh crap this can't turn serious," broke up with me, the end. But no. He kept contacting me "because I was just so in love with you." Taking me out on dates, kissing me. THEN, he actually goes so far as to say we should try a long-distance relationship. You just don't "go there" (with no pressure at all from the woman) if you aren't serious about wanting a future with someone. WTF?
> 
> Then he chokes with the relationship stuff when his job went into crisis mode. But now he's back to being hell bent on spending my bday with me & my loved ones.


Read about Indian culture.


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## LoveBeingFemale

You have been given terrific advice here, but I'm not sure you are hearing what others are saying. Please, please, please read up on Indian culture.  Specifically, read up on Indian men and white women. Once his family finds out about you, it is almost guaranteed that if there isn't an arranged marriage already planned, there will be...but it will be with an Indian woman.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> No, they don't. We've discussed that. Lately his dad has just been saying how he wants him to get married so he can retire comfortably? So my ex has been talking to me about saving $$ up (on his own, independently of a marriage) to accomplish that for his dad?
> 
> My ex just says his family would not be nice to me & he doesn't want me to go through that badness


Why does he have to get married so that his father can retire comfortably. Does this mean that his father is expecting something financial from the marriage?

If read about this often in marriages with Indian men. They are expected to support their parents in retirement.

If you truly cared for him (not just in lust kind of love) you would not ask him to do anything that meant that he had to give up his family or have a huge fight with them. While to many in western culture, the very tight knit family and parents arranging marriages seems off (if not wrong headed) it's a culture that has worked for thousands of years. 

His family is very important to him. He's very important to his family. Their culture is important to them.

Why do you want him to go against everything that he was brought to up be?

.


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## learning112

EleGirl said:


> His family is very important to him. He's very important to his family. Their culture is important to them.
> 
> Why do you want him to go against everything that he was brought to up be?


He (not me) has said things like "I was always raised one way, but then I met you and everything changed. I'm caught between what I was always taught and what I'm starting to think/feel now." I think he's struggling (he said he was constantly depressed, crying himself to sleep) because he wants to take care of his parents but doesnt see why he cant love the person he calls the "love of his life." He actually called their notion of an arranged marriage "crazy."


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> He (not me) has said things like "I was always raised one way, but then I met you and everything changed. I'm caught between what I was always taught and what I'm starting to think/feel now." I think he's struggling (he said he was constantly depressed, crying himself to sleep) because he wants to take care of his parents but doesnt see why he cant love the person he calls the "love of his life." He actually called their notion of an arranged marriage "crazy."


Wow, he sounds seriously depressed. How horrible that your relationship is causing him this much grief.


He's very likely to give into his family's tradition. But maybe he will have learned something and will be less controlling of his own children.


Remember that he comes from a society that has no social welfare, no retirement, etc. This is why family is so important in places like India. Without family people are not very likely to survive well. So anyone with a strong family has a much better chance of making it through life and not ending up starving on the street.

Are you willing to support his father and mother so they can retire and not end up on the street in poverty? Or are you willing to marry him and then leave his parents with no support?


His relationship with you is the only one he has ever had. How would he know that you are the love of his live? He's in love right now because that's what happens in the first 2 years... our brains produce lots of dopamine to make us feel the high of 'love'. Real love does not settle in until after that initial "romantic love" dies down. Only then can real, deep, long-term love start to develop.

Love relationships are notorious for not lasting. Most romantic love relationship... most of which the people consider the other to the love of their life... do not last. Most end before marriage. In societies that have love marriages, divorce rates are high. Why? Because romantic love is apparently one of the worst indicators for choosing a life partner. 

Societies that have arranged marriages have much lower divorce rates. Maybe arranged marriages are not so crazy.

You are both very young. In western society, the younger a person is when they marry, the more likely they are to end up divorced.


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## diwali123

He wants him to get married because even though it is illegal in India many families still pay a dowry to the groom's family. Meaning lots of money. 
He also will most likely have to pay for an elaborate wedding which is another reason he wants it. So he can pay for it and then retire.
And yes they have no social security in India. 

I feel for you but we are older people who have been through long relationships and marriages. We have all seen how the first blush of love so often is just a fantasy.


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## learning112

But at this point, we've been thru a lot of serious discussions & drama, things aren't easy and yet we still feel so strongly about each other. I guess I'll see what happens when I see him


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> But at this point, we've been thru a lot of serious discussions & drama, things aren't easy and yet we still feel so strongly about each other. I guess I'll see what happens when I see him


Learning, what ever happens, I hope you find what you are looking for, now and in the future, all my best to you. Good bye.


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## learning112

diwali123 said:


> I would start dating other people. There are many men who you can love who don't have a family standing in the way.


We were out Wednesday night with mutual friends & I decided to focus my attention on this other cute guy who's always liked me -- I was talking, not obnoxiously flirting, but we were standing close just the 2 of us. Well my ex quickly walkd over to interrupt us and "block" things -- and actually got the other guy to duck out pretty quickly! Not by being aggressive or a jerk, but just by showing his clear interest in me. My other friends saw the whole thing and said it was very obvious. Something tells me he doesn't actually want me dating other people... Not that that "should" stop me.


----------



## turnera

learning112 said:


> He (not me) has said things like "I was always raised one way, but then I met you and everything changed. I'm caught between what I was always taught and what I'm starting to think/feel now." I think he's struggling (he said he was constantly depressed, crying himself to sleep) because he wants to take care of his parents but doesnt see why he cant love the person he calls the "love of his life." He actually called their notion of an arranged marriage "crazy."


 I wouldn't be dating him unless he is visiting a therapist long term. It's going to take a LOT for him to get over that mother/culture guilt.


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## diwali123

I agree.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello TurnEra,

Interesting username. Does it mean anything? Just curious 



turnera said:


> I wouldn't be dating him unless he is visiting a therapist long term. It's going to take a LOT for him to get over that mother/culture guilt.


He's grown up knowing ONLY one culture and that's the problem. He needs to make room in his heart and life for other cultures so he can learn more about the world he lives in. The first woman he's met and fallen in love for is Learning, a young woman from a completely different culture to his own. I have both cultures in my life, but then I grew up with them my whole life, so I'm used to it. I'm constantly learning about other cultures, living in the UK gives me that freedom to explore and learn. *This is what he needs to do!*

@Learning: I said "Good Bye" to you in my last post. So, I lied, sue me.  You still owe me a new keyboard! But you remind me to much of certain individuals in my own family who went through the same thing you are going through now and can't help myself but keep an eye on your thread.


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## turnera

turnera is the name of my favorite flower (the white one, that is).

My H, my DD22 and I just got back from a 2-week European cruise. What an eye-opener! We've been agreeing for years that Americans, at least, should have to spend a year abroad. To see what we take for granted, and to see that what we think life is like is just one version.


----------



## Coffee Amore

turnera said:


> My H, my DD22 and I just got back from a 2-week European cruise. What an eye-opener! We've been agreeing for years that Americans, at least, should have to spend a year abroad. To see what we take for granted, and to see that what we think life is like is just one version.


I totally agree. I encourage my nieces and nephews to go abroad even if it's just for the summer. I spent parts of my life in other areas of the world, some very poor parts, and it was life changing for me. We take so much for granted from clean water coming straight out of the faucet to relative lack of corruption in the police force... also makes you aware of what normal portions for food looks like.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello Turnera,

Oh your avatar, I get it now! I'll search for it later today...



turnera said:


> turnera is the name of my favorite flower (the white one, that is).
> My H, my DD22 and I just got back from a 2-week European cruise. *What an eye-opener!* *We've been agreeing for years that Americans, at least, should have to spend a year abroad.:smthumbup:* To see what we take for granted, and to see that what we think life is like is just one version.


Fantastic! I hope you enjoyed yourselves and will return one day, but more than 2 weeks please, there’s much to see and learn. With all due respect this may sound offensive but it's not meant to be, okay. About 30% of my family are Americans and half of them are dumb and stupid to any other culture(s) outside North America because they were born there, which is VERY SAD indeed for a continent that is based on the principals of the freedom of movement, to go anywhere in the world should one desire it. When they fly out to the UK for their holidays they disrespect some of the family in our own country and then proceed to teach us how to speak English in the UK _(You just have to laugh at that one!)._ We all stare at them and wonder if this is Planet Earth or Planet America. Remember, this is about my family! No one else! I have more connections to Americans outside my American family with good reason and plan to continue this.

I actually toured the US for 6 weeks 23 years ago, and WOW! What an adventure it was. So many Americans used to come up to us once we started speaking with an English accent, I thought it was all bit strange, but we were there to have an adventure, they brought us drinks and we talked for hours in the coffee shops / malls etc. about the UK and Europe, it is was fun. I loved it! I think you should encourage more of your friends to go explore the world, Europe is a continent melting pot of cultures, histories, languages and don't forget the food. Just the other day I had good old _"Fish 'n' Chips" with salt 'n' pepper and vinegar_. I know what your thinking, _"v__ery healthy right, not really, but once a week doesn't hurt. !"_

Right On topic: Learning is aware of different cultures because she’s from the US, but her boyfriend is a "Virgin" when it comes to other cultures and needs to spend more time exploring the US culture. His parents/family in India, well, I seem to be lost for words here….but whatever decision Learning’s boyfriend makes he is:

*“Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t”*

Good night! Turnera.


----------



## learning112

He started making more comments about why our relationship can't survive long term because it's impractical -- his family and long distance. I reminded him that I was (2 years later) going to eventually move for him, since his career wouldn't permit it at that point & mine would. I told him that he had it all when dating me, but instead he's choosing nothing... and I have nothing more to say about that. And I don't. The end. Meanwhile he mailed me a bday present (odd that he didn't just give it to me in person while I was home this past weekend)... but Oh well.


----------



## RandomDude

Was going to post something but... meh

12 pages now and you haven't really listened to anything anybody has to say


----------



## learning112

RandomDude said:


> Was going to post something but... meh
> 
> 12 pages now and you haven't really listened to anything anybody has to say


I did SO!! I told him "If you really love someone, you make sacrifices. And actually, I told you how I would've moved for you, etc. It wouldn't have been that impossible for us to be together. You had it all when we were dating -- but now you're choosing nothing. And I have nothing further to say about that."

I could've chosen to continue accepting his offer of "being very involved in my life as friends." He had said, ""I messed things up by saying I wanted a relationship again, because when I'm with yuo I just focus upon how right it feels and how much I do want to be with you. But now I'm thinking, and things are too impractical and hopefully we can go back to normal very soon & just be very close friends."

No thanks.


----------



## learning112

In addition - If he ever tries to talk to me again (I don't know that he will), maybe I'll just say that I deserve more than being a friend on the side while he marries someone else, and if he ever wants to introduce me to his parents & get serious then he could let me know, but otherwise no contact.


----------



## Rags

sorry, but I seriously doubt you can remain friends. What lover/husband that you have in the future would be comfortable with that relationship persisting? I know I wouldn't, and doubt many would. It's just too dangerous to a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## learning112

Rags said:


> sorry, but I seriously doubt you can remain friends. What lover/husband that you have in the future would be comfortable with that relationship persisting? I know I wouldn't, and doubt many would. It's just too dangerous to a marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right, that's why I'm going to tell him that we CAN'T ever be friends & If he becomes interested in standing up & committing to me in a real relationship like I deserve then he can contact me, but not to be his thing on the side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

learning, sometimes you meet someone not for your lifetime parter, but to teach you things. I think you've learned some valuable stuff here - what a good relationship should look like, how a partner should choose you over family, what it takes to respect a person...consider this a valuable part of growing up into the person you will be the rest of your life. Eventually, you will look back at him and think fondly of it all. (but probably not right now!)


----------



## turnera

learning112 said:


> but not to be his thing on the side.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 My mom had a college sweetheart she always talked about. When she was about 45-50, he found her. He was a doctor out in California. He started stopping by our city when he was traveling. She was beside herself; even started wearing dresses again to look good for him!

And then she found out he was married. She was just his thing on the side. She had the good sense to do what you are doing.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> I did SO!! I told him *"If you really love someone, you make sacrifices. And actually, I told you how I would've moved for you, etc. It wouldn't have been that impossible for us to be together. You had it all when we were dating -- but now you're choosing nothing. And I have nothing further to say about that."*
> 
> I could've chosen to continue accepting his offer of "being very involved in my life as friends." He had said, ""I messed things up by saying I wanted a relationship again, because when I'm with yuo I just focus upon how right it feels and how much I do want to be with you. *But now I'm thinking, and things are too impractical and hopefully we can go back to normal very soon & just be very close friends."*
> 
> *No thanks. (FTP::smthumbup*


No you can't!!!!



learning112 said:


> In addition - If he ever tries to talk to me again (I don't know that he will), maybe I'll just say that I deserve more than being a friend on the side while he marries someone else, and if he ever wants to introduce me to his parents & get serious then he could let me know, but *otherwise no contact.*


Good words, but just words.....



Rags said:


> sorry, but I seriously doubt you can remain friends. What lover/husband that you have in the future would be comfortable with that relationship persisting? I know I wouldn't, and doubt many would. It's just too dangerous to a marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WOW! So TRUE!!:smthumbup:



learning112 said:


> Right, that's why I'm going to tell him that we CAN'T ever be friends & If he becomes interested in standing up & committing to me in a real relationship like I deserve then he can contact me, but not to be his thing on the side.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Write a NC letter/email and tell him in plain ENGLISH!
Block his number / email.
Get on with your life.

RandomDude said it, and I have to agree with him.

Your username is Learning112 so it time to turn the words on this thread into actions for you and ONLY YOU!

*WORDS + ACTIONS = RESULTS*


----------



## learning112

duplicate see below


----------



## learning112

I'm doing fine with No Contact. But I still struggle to understand why. If he broke up w/me the first time & that was the end of it, fine. But it was only a few weeks back that he said I'm the love of his life and he wants to have a long distance relationship. It has messed me up so badly that he led me on like that, then broke up with me again, but still came to my birthday and then mailed me a bday gift. If he loved me, he'd stop whining that things are difficult for us and start sacrificing something or trying harder to make it work.


----------



## BrockLanders

He wants you clearly but his culture precludes it and he doesnt to be estranged from his family. Why hang around and get hurt? If you guys get together its possible he will lose his family. Would you care to lose yours? He's existing between two cultures when it suits him, are you? You know what to do, painful as it might be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## learning112

I know the family turmoil would be awful. But I DON'T see, given our history, how either of us can go the rest of our lives without speaking to each other. Now that, to me, is the most painful option of all.


----------



## BrockLanders

learning112 said:


> I know the family turmoil would be awful. But I DON'T see, given our history, how either of us can go the rest of our lives without speaking to each other. Now that, to me, is the most painful option of all.



Hey, breakups stink, no matter the ethnic composition. Grow up, it's part of being an adult. You cant live in the West without understanding this really.His family won't accept you, don't you accept yourself?


----------



## Coffee Amore

learning112 said:


> I know the family turmoil would be awful. But I DON'T see, given our history, how either of us can go the rest of our lives without speaking to each other. Now that, to me, is the most painful option of all.


Your history? Exactly how long have you two been together really?  

I know it may seem difficult, but people who have lived together for years part ways never to speak to each other again. So you can get on with your life without him. What you need to realize is that HE will get on with his life without you. He's said as much several times. You need to hear what he's saying.


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## learning112

Coffee Amore said:


> What you need to realize is that HE will get on with his life without you. He's said as much several times. You need to hear what he's saying.


except even in the midst of "breaking up" he has always said, "I can't live without you in my life..." One time I blew him off for 3 days and he literally came to find me in person because "I just can't stand to be without you." If he cannot have his cake and eat it too - if the only way for me to ever talk to him again is for him to stand up to his family - then i just don't know what he'd choose.


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## RandomDude

Learning, listen very carefully, he's obviously just as emotionally attached to you as you are him. But relationships don't succeed on mere passion alone. It takes work, it takes sacrifices; sacrifices that we all know he is unwilling to give.

When my wife and I got together we encountered similar obstacles; her family hated me, her church hated me, my people despised me for getting into a LTR with a woman not of our race. And you know what happened? My wife wanted to be a minister, she spent 2 years of her life pursuing that dream, but she married me, a pagan, an outsider, not who the church or her family wanted for her, and she lost face, she could no longer pursue her dream within that community. She made her sacrifice.

I wanted to be an advocate for my people, I stood for our nationalist agenda and I planned to support our movements in the fatherland with money that I earned here in Australia, my motherland, to help rebuild our culture, our traditions, our racial numbers after 2 genocides. But I married an outsider, not only that, but an enemy of my people. To them, I contributed to our people's continual dwindling numbers via interracial marriage. So I lost face, I made my sacrifice.

We've sacrificed both our dreams.

Sure, even after all that, we encountered internal strife and now my wife and I seperated. But we both had sacrificed and that was the only way we could have our "forbidden fruit". Now look at your relationship, sure, there's lovey doveys, rainbows and butterflies when it comes to your feelings for each other. But where's the sacrifice? Is he willing to be disowned and lose face to be with you? NO

So what in the hell thinks you can still make this work? Listen to what everyone has been telling you, what your BF has been telling you (and not just what you want to hear), and THINK.


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## learning112

how do i make him see that I'm just as "worth it" as all those women out there whose partners have actually sacrificed on their behalf? all he ever has said is how in love with me he is... so why is he claiming that the "best thing" is for me to be without him when i am so far beyond miserable this way? I cant do this


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## RandomDude

> how do i make him see that I'm just as "worth it" as all those women out there whose partners have actually sacrificed on their behalf?


Well that's easy, you slap on some brown tan, replace Hello with Namaste and learn the Indian accent. Slap on a dot between the eyes while you're at it. Then he can introduce you to his family...

Oh wait you said sacrifice? Everyone - including your bf already told you that he's not willing to make the sacrifice.



> all he ever has said is how in love with me he is... so why is he claiming that the "best thing" is for me to be without him when i am so far beyond miserable this way? I cant do this


Because he knows you have no future with him and he's trying to let you go, but you're clinging onto nothing. And as long as you keep holding onto nothing that's all you're going to get.

It's your choice right now whether you want to remain miserable or grow up, move on, and meet someone who can actually love and commit to you.


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## learning112

How was he trying to let me go when 2 WEEKS AGO he told me he wanted to be in a long distance relationship? And all the other things he said? Why aren't I worth ANY SACRIFICE like other women are?


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## RandomDude

His emotions are all over the place, when he wants to do the right thing, he tells you to move on because he knows he can't sacrifice, but when he realises he's going to lose you and you contact him again all his emotions get the better of him. I don't blame him at all, I've been there, torn with indecision between the woman I loved and my people who I swore to uphold.

The difference is; I made the sacrifice.



> Why aren't I worth ANY SACRIFICE like other women are?


Look back a few pages, do you have any idea the consequences that he would have to face choosing you over his family? Who are you to be so selfish as to claim that you are worth him losing his family support and for his family to lose their son?

Even when my wife and I made our sacrifices not one of us said to each other "I'm worth more than your church" or "I'm worth more than your dying people" - we made our decision and our sacrifices by our own choice.


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## turnera

learning, you haven't even known each other that long. I'd ask you to step back and look at this rationally, rather than emotionally. You expect a lot from a guy who doesn't have that much history with you. Would you be willing to, say, move to a hut in the middle of Africa with no running water or toilet, and never see your family again for the rest of your life, just to be with the man you love? He's very aware of what he'd be sacrificing; I think maybe you haven't realized the immensity of it. IMO, he's being smart to call it off. For both of you.


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## diwali123

I think he has done the right thing. It hurts like hell but most break ups do. I told you that him coming to your party didn't mean a lot. And I was right so I hope you will accept that at 41 I might know something about human nature....

And I would say the same thing to my daughter when she is your age. I would tell her sometimes love isn't enough. Because that initial feeling and the mating chemicals last at most two years. Then shït gets real. 

Then you do have to come down from the high and deal with bills, family, kids, jobs, pets, illness, aging, chores....

He loves you and doesn't want to have to see you be treated badly by his family. Because even if they didn't disown him, they will treat you like crap for the rest of your lives together. That's how they are. I've seen it. 

He knows he can't hurt his family or you and this is for the best. 

I would urge you to be practical and realize that this pain is temporary. Grieve for him, cry and do whatever you have to in order to process your feelings. 

And in the future don't date Indian men.


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## learning112

diwali123 said:


> I think he has done the right thing. It hurts like hell but most break ups do. I told you that him coming to your party didn't mean a lot. And I was right so I hope you will accept that at 41 I might know something about human nature....
> 
> And I would say the same thing to my daughter when she is your age. I would tell her sometimes love isn't enough. Because that initial feeling and the mating chemicals last at most two years. Then shït gets real.
> 
> Then you do have to come down from the high and deal with bills, family, kids, jobs, pets, illness, aging, chores....
> 
> He loves you and doesn't want to have to see you be treated badly by his family. Because even if they didn't disown him, they will treat you like crap for the rest of your lives together. That's how they are. I've seen it.
> 
> He knows he can't hurt his family or you and this is for the best.
> 
> I would urge you to be practical and realize that this pain is temporary. Grieve for him, cry and do whatever you have to in order to process your feelings.
> 
> And in the future don't date Indian men.


He keeps saying this is for the best too. WHY? He insists on wanting to be my best friend for life. So he thinks it won't hurt MORE if we break up & stay close & then I watch him marry someone else & have a family with someone else & I'm second fiddle always? How could anyone seriously think that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Because he's selfish and he wants to get to keep seeing you AS A FRIEND so that it doesn't upset his family. He isn't caring how that would make YOU feel.


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## diwali123

learning112 said:


> He keeps saying this is for the best too. WHY? He insists on wanting to be my best friend for life. So he thinks it won't hurt MORE if we break up & stay close & then I watch him marry someone else & have a family with someone else & I'm second fiddle always? How could anyone seriously think that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are extremely hot. He wants a roll in the hay every once in a while.


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## learning112

Oh I feel a little better- so he's self serving? Because if he really loved me and wanted what's best for me why would he suggest me hanging around in hidden background as his best friend and watching him w someone else?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

I would think so. People can be selfish and love you too. It sucks. 
He wants a long term friend with benefits.


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## turnera

Most of the Indian men I know (and I know quite a few) simply expect that that's what women will do - stay in the background and wait for your tidbits whenever they have spare time. It's a VERY male-centric culture.

He may not have thought he was doing that, but I'll bet his conditioning has taken over.


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## diwali123

I agree.


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## RandomDude

Finally!


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## diwali123

And please keep in mind that if you are as hot as you describe, you need to be aware that first of all your looks make you vulnerable to someone who just wants arm candy or a trophy wife. And you are vulnerable to men who just want to sleep with you.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> Oh I feel a little better- so he's self serving? Because if he really loved me and wanted what's best for me why would he suggest me hanging around in hidden background as his best friend and watching him w someone else?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes learning! Why? Because he's only ever known ONE culture his own. You've spent so little time together, YOU are someone he has never seen in is own culture except in magazines and on TV shows. Reverse this, if you go to India wouldn't you feel a culture shock? Yes! It will hit you in the face! It's very different and there are customs that don't even exist in Western cultures. He's treating you like he would treat a Indian woman back home, I'm not saying they all do this, but he has, based on your words about him on your thread.




turnera said:


> Most of the Indian men I know (and I know quite a few) simply expect that that's what women will do - stay in the background and wait for your tidbits whenever they have spare time. It's a VERY male-centric culture.
> 
> He may not have thought he was doing that, but I'll bet his conditioning has taken over.


Well said! But I’m an exception to your words and there are Indian men who DO put their wives/girl friends before their parents/family etc. Learning, you just need to find them, if that’s what you want in the future! They will show you the kind of loyalty you have never seen before, trust me when I say that!

*Learning, what are you going to do next?*

Learning if your angry with me for my harsh posts on your thread, please understand they were never meant to offend you, but to wake you up to your reality. The more you learn about his/my culture the more you'll understand in the long run? I'm lucky, I have two cultures under my belt to play with.


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## RandomDude

Ah, a flesh and blood Indian. I was tempted to jump in and defend the rather negative impressions of Indian men imposed by the ladies here but felt it was both not my place in addition to the fact that OP herself needs to get over this particular dude.

Anyways, glad you chipped in. Hopefully it's finally clicked with learning112


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## FlyingThePhoenix

RandomDude said:


> Ah, a flesh and blood Indian. I was tempted to jump in and defend the rather negative impressions of Indian men imposed by the ladies here but felt it was both not my place in addition to the fact that OP herself needs to get over this particular dude.
> Anyways, glad you chipped in. Hopefully it's finally clicked with learning112


Thank you! Guilty as charged!!!!! 
I've been bugging Learning since post#9 of her thread and I'm still here! I've been leaving her clues in just about every post to Learning.

Are we learning anything yet? Learning…… Ask away, I’ll answer you, but I don’t know all the answers.

Learning I am your _boyfriend_, but almost 20 years older than him, I hope you’re learning here. _(I'm getting tired of all these learning jokes now, come on learning speak to me or forever hold your piece).!!!!!!_

_(Did I not mention I have very English sense of humour, and it takes a great deal to offend me, Ladies!!!)._


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## turnera

meh, I watched an Indian man tell his younger brother he wasn't allowed to marry his fiance until said older brother found his own. Then he told younger brother that he couldn't have any kids until he had his own. You know, so he could control the family line and riches. And watched him pick up as many American women as he wants while his wife isn't allowed to say anything.

And the women? They're fine. As long as they don't step outside the boundaries their husbands set for them. Which is fine, for _their culture._


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello Turnera,



turnera said:


> meh, I watched an Indian man tell his younger brother he wasn't allowed to marry his fiance until said older brother found his own. Then he told younger brother that he couldn't have any kids until he had his own. You know, so he could control the family line and riches. And watched him pick up as many American women as he wants while his wife isn't allowed to say anything.
> 
> And the women? They're fine. As long as they don't step outside the boundaries their husbands set for them. *(1)Which is fine, for their culture.*


Every culture has different versions within it, depending in which country you live in. I live in the UK where Indians are pretty much free to step outside their Indian culture if they wish to do so, but many seek relationships and marriages by themselves with the blessings of their parents/family. I have NEVER seen an example of yours in my family or extended family, that I can recall; but equally I will not disagree with you, as I too believe such things happen. 

But can you at least acknowledge that *(1)* is NOT the ONLY version of my culture! Understand this, there are MANY things in my culture I would love flush down the toilet without thinking about it, the list is a long one.

Remember you told me, you and your husband holidayed in Europe for 2 weeks, how many cultures did you see? These are your words: *(2)* *"What an eye-opener!"* I love these words, to me it means you're not afraid of learning something new.

Learning's boyfriend _(Ex, I hope)_ has no concept of *(2) *at least not yet. 

_Okay, did I upset you in anyway, I get the impression I did?_


----------



## Coffee Amore

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Hello Turnera,
> 
> Every culture has different versions within it, depending in which country you live in. I live in the UK where Indians are pretty much free to step outside their Indian culture if they wish to do so, but many seek relationships and marriages by themselves with the blessings of their parents/family. I have NEVER seen an example of yours in my family or extended family, that I can recall; but equally I will not disagree with you, as I too believe such things happen.
> 
> But can you at least acknowledge that *(1)* is NOT the ONLY version of my culture! Understand this, there are MANY things in my culture I would love flush down the toilet without thinking about it, the list is a long one.



I agree with you. We can't say wholesale that Indian men are all like the OP's boyfriend. I'm not Indian, but I've lived for a while in that part of the world when I was growing up. My experience there and coming back the US is that those who come from progressive, very Westernized families are far more accepting of mixed marriages. And within the US, those who are second generation (born and raised here) don't always have the hangups the OP's boyfriend has. On the contrary, some of the second generation people I knew in the San Francisco/Bay Area of California seem to deliberately seek out people of other backgrounds to date and marry.


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## turnera

Of course I don't say an entire culture can be represented by one group. It's just that, of the 25 to 30 men from India I've associated with, this has been the norm. Perhaps that is just what they incorporate when they come to the US? Most of the men I describe are first-generation.


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## learning112

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> He's treating you like he would treat a Indian woman back home, I'm not saying they all do this, but he has, based on your words about him on your thread.



WOW. Maybe this is true. Maybe he thinks that as long as he pays attention to me occasionally, and gives me big words like "you're the love of my life, I swear," then it's okay to hide me and even to marry someone else -- while keeping me on the side. Maybe he truly doesn't think it's a possibility that if he won't commit to a relationship with me, I will continue never talking to him again because I beleive I deserve more.


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## diwali123

Or he's just playing the odds hoping for the best. For him.


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## learning112

diwali123 said:


> Or he's just playing the odds hoping for the best. For him.


How is he playing the odds? His behavior -- being gushy, calling me the love of his life, but sacrificing nothing & keeping me hidden for life -- is hardly risky for him!


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## diwali123

I mean he's thinking if he does this stuff enough he might just end up with a FWB for life. It's risky because he might lose you when you figure it out.


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## learning112

diwali123 said:


> I mean he's thinking if he does this stuff enough he might just end up with a FWB for life. It's risky because he might lose you when you figure it out.


But that's not it! Even after he said he wanted to try a relationship again, he refused to sleep together as much as he wanted to, because he just wanted to do right by me & didn't want to do that again until we were sure things were gonna last long term. That's why he confuses me so much- because his motive in this obviously isn't sex
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> WOW. Maybe this is true. Maybe he thinks that as long as he pays attention to me occasionally, and gives me big words like "*you're the love of my life,* I swear," then it's okay to hide me and even to marry someone else -- while keeping me on the side. Maybe he truly doesn't think it's a possibility that if he won't commit to a relationship with me, I will continue never talking to him again because I beleive I deserve more.


A man, who can say such words, would NOT be ashamed of telling his parents/family about you! If I said those words, the whole world would know about you! 

Because he hasn't told his parents/family about you, therefore he's NOT a real MAN, only a boy who has a lot to learn about the new culture he is now living.


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## learning112

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> A man, who can say such words, would NOT be ashamed of telling his parents/family about you! If I said those words, the whole world would know about you!
> 
> Because he hasn't told his parents/family about you, therefore he's NOT a real MAN, only a boy who has a lot to learn about the new culture he is now living.


No one is enough of a liar to say they want a long distance relationship & I'm the love of their life and they'll tell their parents once the big stress at work is all settled... Then a week later after nothing had happened (other than a catastrophe with work), "whoops never mind didn't mean it at all." Not when in the meantime I was far away and he wasn't getting sex or companionship or anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> No one is enough of a liar to say they want a long distance relationship & I'm the love of their life andthey'll tell their parents once the big stress at work is all settled... Then a week later after nothing had happened (other than a catastrophe with work), "whoops never mind didn't mean it at all." Not when in the meantime I was far away and he wasn't getting sex or companionship or anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You sound like you've just had a fight or something. Learning your loosing me here...
I going to guess what you mean here, please correct me.

*"No one is enough of a liar to say they want a long distance relationship & I'm the love of their life.."*

OH Really... Distance relationships ONLY work when everyone knows you're in one to begin with, like for say example, both sets of parents, family and friends, don't you think? Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Okay, Work is Stress, and Stress is Work, it's always going to be stressful at work, no matter what day of the week, month, or year, that's called a Job! How does he know when the "*they'll tell their parents once the big stress at work is all settled...* *" *going to be?????

If my guess above is correct than he is stringing you along!! 

You've lost me here now...*"whoops never mind didn't mean it at all."* 

Take a deep breath, calm down and rewrite your post again, or correct my guess, okay.


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## learning112

What I meant was this...
It's one thing if this guy started dating me, knew it couldn't be long term, realized it & broke up with me.

But afterward, he never stopped talking to me / hanging out with me and making it romantic, though not sexual. He'd do things like coming to find me in person when I was mad at him because it made him "depressed" & crying if I was mad at him ever.. And then, after months of being "on his own" with time to think & reflect, he STILL chose -- only a few weeks ago -- to take me out to a nice dinner & tell me he wanted to try a long distance relationship. After that point, nothing "happened" other than the huge catastrophe he had at his job recently. Then he started saying he needed a little time on his own to straighten things out, but then he'd tell his family once timing was better, because I was the love of his life. And now suddenly, he wasn't thinking clearly and we can't really have a relationship at all? 

You mean to tell me he "wasn't thinking clearly" at ANY point over the past few months that culminated in his decision to have a relationship with me again? This is so bizarre and sad.


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## turnera

Meaning he was in lust and it felt too good to stop - until something triggered him having to deal with his parents, and it sobered him up.


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## learning112

He told me the whole reason he ended up proposing a long distance relationship is because after I started ignoring him/was mad at him for treating me insignificantly, etc, he said he became extremely depressed & couldn't carry on without me. But now he expects to be able to break up w me again and be fine?! Is this guy really gonna b ok never talking to me ever again?

Also, isn't he a liar? He claimed he was going to tell his parents after career stuff was straightened out... Even as recently as a month ago. Now suddenly it's just "oh I can't be with you due to my parents"- when he never even tried to tell them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> He told me the whole reason he ended up proposing a long distance relationship is because after I started ignoring him/was mad at him for treating me insignificantly, etc, he said he became extremely depressed & couldn't carry on without me. But now he expects to be able to break up w me again and be fine?! Is this guy really gonna b ok never talking to me ever again?
> 
> Also, isn't he a liar? He claimed he was going to tell his parents after career stuff was straightened out... Even as recently as a month ago. Now suddenly it's just "oh I can't be with you due to my parents"- when he never even tried to tell them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Learning,

Do you know how long I've waited for this post from those fingers of yours? It's about bloody time you woke up!!!!!! I'm so proud of you. I know it hurts, but you know the truth now.

Do you want to REALLY understand what you're up against, then it's time to expand your learning:
I sent you a PM? Doesn't matter I'm posting here as well. Check out *Radhika's Thread* and READ IT from POST#1. 

I also want you to re-read *"LaurenNabi"* posts, she went through the same thing as you many years ago and she has found her very own KISA who will defend her and ONLY her!.

There are different versions of every culture, sadly you met a "boy" that's pretending to be "MAN" and he's played you from the beginning, his version of my culture has VERY STRONG cultural connections back to India. He’s mummy’s “boy”!

*What are you going to do next?*


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## learning112

Thank you!! These days I spend less time being sad & more time being angry. Even a month ago he was telling me how he was going to tell his parents about me, just needed to get things straightened out with career first. And now all he can tell me is how badly he wants me to wake up one day & be ok with being his "friend" again. He said the whole reason he asked me to have a long distance relationship was that he became so depressed when I wouldn't talk to him for even 3 days previously, & he knew he couldn't be without me. But now he thinks he can go his whole life? Real smart. And he tries to absolve himself from guilt by acting like he has no choice, he's a helpless puppet who has to follow his parents. And acts noble, like he's doing the best thing for me. No. The best thing for me was not to make me live without him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

I don't know. Honestly I think it is the best thing for you. The way he has handled it has been shïtty. But he is caught between two incredibly different cultures.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Learning,



learning112 said:


> Thank you!! These days I spend less time being sad & more time being angry. Even a month ago he was telling me how he was going to tell his parents about me, just needed to get things straightened out with career first. And now all he can tell me is how badly he wants me to wake up one day & be ok with being his "friend" again. He said the whole reason he asked me to have a long distance relationship was that he became so depressed when I wouldn't talk to him for even 3 days previously, & he knew he couldn't be without me. But now he thinks he can go his whole life? Real smart. And he tries to absolve himself from guilt by acting like he has no choice, he's a helpless puppet who has to follow his parents. And acts noble, like he's doing the best thing for me. No. The best thing for me was not to make me live without him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know it hurts and your beginning to show real anger here, that's good, it will help come to terms with his lack of openness with you. You remember when I told you a long distance relationship can only work if everything knows your in one to begin with. Well, remember your thread title:

*"When should Indian man tell parents about white girlfriend?"*

Can you answer your own question now based on all the posts on this thread?


----------



## Westwind

Different cultures here. Marriages usually arranged. No sex is what is expected. He is not playing by western standards so you are confused by eastern standards and he is also confused about how to do a western relationship. It’s a real mess this way on who is feeling what and you are feeling that. Just take what he is saying at face value. Just tell him you are as confused as he is, that things are unsettled with his family and job, so you just want to be friends too, that being friends is a good idea.


----------



## learning112

Westwind said:


> He is not playing by western standards so you are confused by eastern standards and he is also confused about how to do a western relationship. It’s a real mess this way on who is feeling what and you are feeling that. Just take what he is saying at face value. Just tell him you are as confused as he is, that things are unsettled with his family and job, so you just want to be friends too, that being friends is a good idea.


sounds like good advice, thank you -- the only problem is, if I took everything he said at face value over the last few weeks, then I'd believe... That he just needs time to sort out career stress but I'm the love of his life and he won't be dating anyone else, and also he needs to marry whomever his parents want, but also he's going to tell his parents about us after his career is more settled this fall, but also he is completely depressed by the thought of ever being without me, but also we should just be friends, but also he just needs a little time alone to sort everything out but that's it.


----------



## learning112

Why is he telling me that he's constantly depressed without me and desperate for me to be his friend- & he doesn't understand why I'm not ok w just that, because he sees it as "just as good" as us being more than friends / getting married?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

learning112 said:


> he sees it as "just as good" as us being more than friends / getting married?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 No offense to the culture, but that's pretty much what I've experienced from all the men I know from India - have a wife to show off, and keep the other women on the side. That's women's position in the world.


----------



## learning112

He justifies it by sayin he'd never sleep with me again- but it sounds like what he'd want with me would be emotional cheating. Like, why would your wife want you to have a best femal friend u used to date & said would always be the love of your life, whom you've kissed passionately multiple times since the breakup? Also why would he want me in his life at all so badly if he'll have another woman anyhow?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Try to remember that we typically speak in the moment. In the moment, you can't imagine him not in your life, nor can he. But five months from now, when you haven't spoken more than 4 or 5 times, that will fade, and he'll become just someone in your past. It won't last.


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## diwali123

learning112 said:


> He justifies it by sayin he'd never sleep with me again- but it sounds like what he'd want with me would be emotional cheating. Like, why would your wife want you to have a best femal friend u used to date & said would always be the love of your life, whom you've kissed passionately multiple times since the breakup? Also why would he want me in his life at all so badly if he'll have another woman anyhow?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you are right, he wants to have an emotional affair and/or keep the door open just in case. Lots of men do this. They keep in touch with exes, make them friends so that they still get that emotional ego boost and maybe have a chance to sleep with her one day in a moment of weakness.


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## Westwind

diwali123 said:


> I think you are right, he wants to have an emotional affair and/or keep the door open just in case. Lots of men do this. They keep in touch with exes, make them friends so that they still get that emotional ego boost and maybe have a chance to sleep with her one day in a moment of weakness.


I do not think he is planning that; however, it could work out that way.


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## learning112

Westwind said:


> I do not think he is planning that; however, it could work out that way.


Such a mess. Instead of drawing clear boundaries & saying "I'm moving on," he's like "we're closing a business deal right now but ill text you as soon as its over, I'm sorry I'm sorry..." He talks to me like we're in a relationship & brings up the 10 different aspects of my day that he's dying to hear about & totally overlooks the fact that he didn't make good on his word to tell his parents & avoids when I bring that fact up or ask why that changed...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Gee, I wonder why...could it be that you still LET HIM?


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## diwali123

learning112 said:


> Such a mess. Instead of drawing clear boundaries & saying "I'm moving on," he's like "we're closing a business deal right now but ill text you as soon as its over, I'm sorry I'm sorry..." He talks to me like we're in a relationship & brings up the 10 different aspects of my day that he's dying to hear about & totally overlooks the fact that he didn't make good on his word to tell his parents & avoids when I bring that fact up or ask why that changed...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why are you still talking to him?


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## Starstarfish

I asked that quite a while ago. 

The fact is, OP - he isn't going to draw clear boundaries, and at this point that's abundantly clear. He has no problem playing your emotions, and giving you crumbs of hope only to dash them hours or days later. Whether that's his upbringing, his culture, or its just the way he is - it's exceedingly unlikely he'll wake up one day with a sudden epiphany that what he's doing is unfair to you. 

You've slept with this man, and you have deep feelings for him - being his friend isn't going to work. Each time you see him, each time you talk, you are going to glean some secret meaning to it, a sign that he really does want to be together, that he's just stressed, that he'll come around. 

If you want boundaries established - establish them yourself and go no-contact. But - that's been suggested before, and you want to keep talking to him. So - what else can people suggest?


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## learning112

You're right, he thinks what he's doing is fine, he sees no problem in us being "just friends" but sharing everything in life. But something in me believes that he'll never be able to actually marry someone else because he's so darn in love with me and freaks out ANY time he makes me uoset
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Starstarfish

But why would you honestly want to marry someone who would string you along like that and doesn't see a problem with what's going on?


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## Coffee Amore

I think on some level the original poster is deeply flattered that this guy says she's the "love of his life". She's mentioned that tidbit a few times. It's hard for her to let go of someone who has characterized her that way. Put aside the fact, he hasn't shown in by actions she's a great love of his, I think she loves the idea of being his great love, someone he can't get over.. ever. It's all quite romantic, something classic..two star crossed lovers held apart by his family despite the great love they have for each other. 

He's young and inexperienced, so he's likely to use dramatic terms like "love of my life" quickly and easily without much thought. When you get to my older and more cynical state, you know men say those things without really meaning it, sometimes they mean it in the moment, but it's truly their actions, not their words that show if they think of you as their great love.


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## Westwind

He needs to talk to his family about dating an American and see what happens. If he gets by that and still wants you, then hold him to the "he'd never sleep with me again" idea until you get a ring. He is driven by hormones and maybe you are too, and you both need to think clearly about the relationship and cultural differences.


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## diwali123

learning112 said:


> You're right, he thinks what he's doing is fine, he sees no problem in us being "just friends" but sharing everything in life. But something in me believes that he'll never be able to actually marry someone else because he's so darn in love with me and freaks out ANY time he makes me uoset
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure he will. They don't have a concept of marriage being romantic so it doesn't bother them to marry a stranger.


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## learning112

OK. Now he told me his own brother just got disowned for refusing to marry the girl his parents wanted. My ex's brother didn't even have another girl he was in love with, whereas my ex claims that I'm the "love of his life" and calls his parents crazy -- and yet HE can't do what his brother did and refuse, for my sake?!!! But my ex keeps begging me to go through sharing life with him as his best friend. He keeps telling me the only thing that will change is that we won't have a sexual relaitonship, but otherwise everything between us will remain exactly the same.


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## turnera

Go ahead and be his friend - while you go out and look for a life partner.


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## learning112

Heck no!! Why does he deserve anything from me? If his parents asked him to steal something, would he do it and say he has no control over his own life? Because he's causing me endless pain by not standing up for me and being with me, but he doesn't seem to care enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Ok then.

_Why are you still talking to him?_


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## Starstarfish

At this point you are causing yourself the endlessly pain - he's laid his cards on the table. He's not going to commit, and what he's offering you aren't interested in. So - why keep up this cycle?

Go make up a profile on Match.com and move on. Or go out with some friends this weekend. But you need to stop investing your emotional energy into this situation, as awful and painful as it is. 

And I don't know how many different ways we can explain that.


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## Westwind

Is he willing to be disowned by his family? His folks seem uncaring if they disowned his brother for not marrying a woman his folks wanted him to. I mean the brother was the one who was going to have to live with the woman. If the parents are that uncaring, then it seems to me that their children would take on the same way of not caring about others. Maybe being disowned is a good thing in this family?


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## diwali123

If you play with a snake and it bites you, whose fault is it? You knew it was a snake and that's what snakes do. 
You know what he is but you are still playing with him. 
Put the snake down and walk away.


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## learning112

diwali123 said:


> If you play with a snake and it bites you, whose fault is it? You knew it was a snake and that's what snakes do.
> You know what he is but you are still playing with him.
> Put the snake down and walk away.


I just believe that if I stay in his life he won't be able to bear marrying someone else and will eventually stand up the way his brother did against their parents... Or it could be that he does so if I go no contact because he realizes he can't bear to be without me...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

Why do you want to be with someone who is so confused, is confusing you, who will either break your heart or be disowned by his family?
And YES he will be able to marry someone else. I really think you need to learn more about Indian culture. They don't marry for romance or love. It's a sense of duty and to build a home and have children. 
Men do it all the time there.


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## learning112

He's just not enough of a heartless pig to marry someone he doesn't love & ask me to stand around and watch, ie "share in his life as his best friend."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FlyingThePhoenix

diwali123 said:


> Why do you want to be with someone who is so confused, is confusing you, who will either break your heart or be disowned by his family?
> And YES he will be able to marry someone else. *(1) I really think you need to learn more about Indian culture.* * (2) They don't marry for romance or love. It's a sense of duty and to build a home and have children. Men do it all the time there.*


*(2) COMPLETELY INCORRECT!* Maybe YOU should do *(1)* a bit more!

There are *TWO types of marriages *in this world that I am aware of!!!!

*(3) Arranged Marriages *= Both parties meet through parents/family, they accept each other and then learn to love each other over time through communicating and forming connections.

*(4) Love Marriages* = Same as above but without the parents/family, directly involved. Parents/family will come afterwards; they will either bless the union or reject it.

*Both happen in India but (3) is more common than (4).*


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Learning,

I'm SORRY! Brace yourself, you won't like this post!



learning112 said:


> OK. Now he told me his own brother just got disowned for refusing to marry the girl his parents wanted. My ex's brother didn't even have another girl he was in love with, whereas my ex claims that I'm the "love of his life" and calls his parents crazy -- and yet HE can't do what his brother did and refuse, for my sake?!!! But my ex keeps begging me to go through sharing life with him as his best friend. He keeps telling me the only thing that will change is that we won't have a sexual relaitonship, but otherwise everything between us will remain exactly the same.


Your EX's brother IS a real "MAN" with real “BALLS” when he stood up for himself against his parents trying to dictate who can marry to for the rest of his life. His brother brought shame to his parents/family by standing up to them, so now; your EX has the responsibility to restore the “FAMILY HONOUR” and keep it intact. One son MUST listen to the sage wisdom of the parents/family in order to keep the “FAMILY HONOUR” Bull Sh1t happy ever after. What would the rest of the family think!!!!!

Your EX wants to continue seeing you in a SEXLESS RELATIONSHIP; because he’s saving himself for the woman his parents are already choosing for him back in India/other based on their criteria and what’s good for the family. His opinions, thoughts really don’t come into it, just that one of the sons keeps the “FAMILY HONOUR” intact.



learning112 said:


> I just believe that if I stay in his life he won't be able to bear marrying someone else and will eventually stand up the way his brother did against their parents... Or it could be that he does so if I go no contact because he realizes he can't bear to be without me...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You keep on believing what whatever crap lines your EX tells you, you know, the one brother without any real “BALLS”. Maybe YOU should date his brother, I’m sure he’ll defend YOU? He seems to have MANNED-UP with some real “BALLS” and is in charge of his OWN destiny. He turned his WORDS INTO ACTIONS! That’s why his parent/family DISOWNED him!



learning112 said:


> *(1)* He's just not enough of a heartless pig to marry someone he doesn't love & ask me to stand around and watch, ie "share in his life as his best friend."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he follows in his brothers footsteps of just saying NO to his parents! Then YES! You’re statement *(1)* is CORRECT! Look “Learning”, instead of beating around the bush and scratching your finger nails on the table wondering what your EX will say or do next, why don’t YOU just ask his brother what his parents will do? After all, he’s been through it and been disowned, come on, what have YOU got too loose at this point. 

*Q. Do you have his brothers contact details, email/phone no? *Ask him every question you have think of. But end this merry go round of will he won’t he stand up for me, it’s getting you no way, but in a continuous loop of your HIS making, and you are at the heart of it.

Just don’t tell your EX, you’re contacting his brother, as he’s your EX, it’s NONE of his business ANYWAY! 

*It’s TIME for YOU to WOMAN-UP! OR IS THAT TOO MUCH I'M ASKING OF YOU?*


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## diwali123

Please don't demean their culture. Just because we don't have their beliefs doesn't mean it is wrong.


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## learning112

Um, it's wrong to lead me on for 6 months, tell me I'm the love of your life, then suddenly oh wait u aren't willing to stand up to your parents whom you call crazy, but beg me to be your best friend and share our lives forever
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

I wasn't talking to you, hon. 

He is wrong. You need to open your eyes to the possibility of other people. 
This kind of thing is so alluring to young women, it feels so romantic and Romeo and Juliet. 
That's not how real life works. 

He is torn between two worlds. But this isn't a movie, this is your life. Don't let him hurt you anymore.


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## Coffee Amore

learning112 said:


> Um, it's wrong to lead me on for 6 months, tell me I'm the love of your life, then suddenly oh wait u aren't willing to stand up to your parents whom you call crazy, but beg me to be your best friend and share our lives forever
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How old are you?


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## learning112

I'm 25, so is he
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## learning112

FTP, why is it that you're suggesting I contact his brother?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coffee Amore

There's no point contacting the brother. The relationship is between you and your Ex. Either he's all invested in a relationship with you or he's not. His brother isn't likely to give personal family information to some random foreign woman who contacts him. In a culture that values family secrets, you some woman from the west he doesn't know would be the last person he'd share confidences with. 

learning - you need to stop romanticizing your relationship.


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## learning112

His brother knows me well. We played in this small orchestra together for a few months. But I agree it doesn't really matter anyhow. I'm just so angry that my ex says he's sitting & waiting around until the day I agree to be ready to share my life with him (as friends). Angry. He thinks it won't cause me pain to hear him talk about his WIFE? That's why I can't fully believe hell go thru w this, because the alternative seems SO crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rigajigjig

I have been reading this thread for a while and there are a lot of misconceptions flying around about Indian culture. 

That apart your boyfriend is either 1. A jerk, he never planned to marry you and has been hanging with you as his share of "firangi fun" before he settles down with a "nice girl" of Indian origin selected by parents OR 2. Is plain out coward, if he does not have the guts to tell his parents, he shouldn't have had the guts to have a relationship with you either.

Indian parents can put crazy pressure on their kids.....there is no doubt about it but this guy has known his family all his life. Its not like they thrust his orthodox thoughts on him suddenly. Don't mean to hurt you but I am inclined to believe this guy to be a total jerk to ask you to remain friends & you are terribly gullible to fall for this.


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## Rollin

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> *(2) COMPLETELY INCORRECT!* Maybe YOU should do *(1)* a bit more!
> 
> There are *TWO types of marriages *in this world that I am aware of!!!!
> 
> *(3) Arranged Marriages *= Both parties meet through parents/family, they accept each other and then learn to love each other over time through communicating and forming connections.
> 
> *(4) Love Marriages* = Same as above but without the parents/family, directly involved. Parents/family will come afterwards; they will either bless the union or reject it.
> 
> *Both happen in India but (3) is more common than (4).*


Things are changing, 4 is becoming more common than 3.


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## Caribbean Man

This thread is fascinating.
A few misconceptions in it.
Chances are the guy is exploiting the OP's ignorance of his cultural background.

And there is absolutely nothing inherently evil about arranged marriages . In our country , a variation of it is still practiced among Hindu culture.
I know what I'm speaking about, I married an Indian girl from a Hindu background.
The pressure can be tremendous , and to marry outside the religion and race could result in ostracism. However , more young Indians are choosing their own partners , looking for their parents blessings , and moving on with their life.
But, their parent's blessing on the union is very important to them.

In this case, its difficult to tell what the guy is thinking , but I'm inclined to believe that he's not being honest.


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## learning112

So interesting. Why do several people think he's not being honest? He always seems so genuine, cries real tears over me. Except both times we broke up, in person he only brought up the long distance we'll be facing for a year or so- nothing about his family. He'd then always leak out info about why we couldn't be together because of his parents AFTeR the in person convo. It was odd
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man

Before my wife an I were married , her family accepted me as her friend. Things were always good with me and them , so I never suspected that telling them we wanted to get married would be a problem.
But my wife became increasing tense and apprehensive when I asked her if she told her mom, she said that she was really scared to tell her because she believed her mom would prefer she married an Indian man with Hindu background. She didn't want to face what she knew some of her other Indian friends had faced.

So I asked her if her mother disapproved of our getting married what would she do.
She said she would still choose to get married to me, but really wanted her mom's blessings, as it meant a lot to her.
So she left it up to me to go tell her mom , which I did.
Her mom accepted me with open arms and even offered to finance our wedding. Turned out that she was waiting to see if I was man enough to face the " challenge " and marry her daughter.

She became an integral part of the wedding plans etc.
This meant a lot to my wife and she felt as if a heavy load was lifted off her shoulders.
Our families are very close today and the respect is maximum.

If he really loves you and wants to get married, then he would have to 
" bite the bullet ", so yo speak, and stop delaying.
You love him and want to get married, and I suppose he said he loves you.
He does not want to go against his parent's wishes and face ostracism, but he must choose between you and them if it comes down to that.

Maybe he's waiting for the right time or whatever.
But in the absence of his side of the story, we can only guess.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

diwali123 said:


> Please don't demean their culture. Just because we don't have their beliefs doesn't mean it is wrong.


Hello Diwali,

I'm sorry, but if I want to "demean" my OWN culture, I have every right too! If I sounded aggressive towards you, please accept my apology. 

Thank you.

(Lovely username BTW! )


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> FTP, why is it that you're suggesting I contact his brother?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See answer below.



Coffee Amore said:


> *(1) learning - you need to stop romanticizing your relationship.*


I 100% AGREE WITH YOU ON *(1)* .



learning112 said:


> His brother knows me well. We played in this small orchestra together for a few months. But I agree it doesn't really matter anyhow. I'm just so angry that my ex says he's sitting & waiting around until the day I agree to be ready to share my life with him (as friends). Angry. He thinks it won't cause me pain to hear him talk about his WIFE? That's why I can't fully believe hell go thru w this, because the alternative seems SO crazy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Learning, come on, if you know his brother so well! You keep stating and asking why your EX behaves the way he does! Well that's simple, ask his brother why he behaves that way and if he EVER will commit to YOU 100%.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Caribbean Man said:


> Before my wife an I were married , her family accepted me as her friend. Things were always good with me and them , so I never suspected that telling them we wanted to get married would be a problem.
> But my wife became increasing tense and apprehensive when I asked her if she told her mom, she said that she was really scared to tell her because she believed her mom would prefer she married an Indian man with Hindu background. She didn't want to face what she knew some of her other Indian friends had faced.
> 
> So I asked her if her mother disapproved of our getting married what would she do.
> She said she would still choose to get married to me, but really wanted her mom's blessings, as it meant a lot to her.
> So she left it up to me to go tell her mom , which I did.
> Her mom accepted me with open arms and even offered to finance our wedding. Turned out that she was waiting to see if I was man enough to face the " challenge " and marry her daughter.
> 
> She became an integral part of the wedding plans etc.
> This meant a lot to my wife and she felt as if a heavy load was lifted off her shoulders.
> Our families are very close today and the respect is maximum.
> 
> If he really loves you and wants to get married, then he would have to
> " bite the bullet ", so yo speak, and stop delaying.
> You love him and want to get married, and I suppose he said he loves you.
> He does not want to go against his parent's wishes and face ostracism, but he must choose between you and them if it comes down to that.
> 
> Maybe he's waiting for the right time or whatever.
> But in the absence of his side of the story, we can only guess.


Hello CM,

I've been reading your posts for a while now, and I suspected you had access to another culture. Just for record, that's how most of the weddings happen in my family. Nice story CM!

@ Learning: Seriously, if your EX can't follow CM's example of how to do it the right way. One step at a time! Well then, move on and find a MAN that will put YOU first!


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## Caribbean Man

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Hello CM,
> 
> I've been reading your posts for a while now, and I suspected you had access to another culture. Just for record, that's how most of the weddings happen in my family. Nice story CM!
> 
> @ Learning: Seriously, if your EX can't follow CM's example of how to do it the right way. One step at a time! Well then, move on and find a MAN that will put YOU first!


Phoenix,
First of all , _namastē_.
Thanks for your kind words.
Never knew you were of Indian origin!
But I agree with your perspective on this issue.
Maybe what the white girl needs to do is talk to other people who are of Indian origin , if she knows any.
Also she might be able to get some good advice from people who are in mixed marriages like that of which she's contemplating.
But she needs to give the man an ultimatum, because it seems she is very in love with him.
I suspect that his parents may not be all that intolerant to her, after all they want the best for their son and she seems to be a good woman.
[I have not read the entire thread]


My country is a very cosmopolitan one , many different races and religions.
I have lots of business acquaintances and clients who are from India. Two of our banks are from India, and I am currently doing business with one of them.
Its a unique, beautiful, culture. I will love to visit India soon,to learn of their history,culture and so on. My Indian friends tell me that Jaipur in Rajasthan is the place to go.


----------



## diwali123

Caribbean Man said:


> Phoenix,
> First of all , _namastē_.
> Thanks for your kind words.
> Never knew you were of Indian origin!
> But I agree with your perspective on this issue.
> Maybe what the white girl needs to do is talk to other people who are of Indian origin , if she knows any.
> Also she might be able to get some good advice from people who are in mixed marriages like that of which she's contemplating.
> But she needs to give the man an ultimatum, because it seems she is very in love with him.
> I suspect that his parents may not be all that intolerant to her, after all they want the best for their son and she seems to be a good woman.
> [I have not read the entire thread]
> 
> 
> My country is a very cosmopolitan one , many different races and religions.
> I have lots of business acquaintances and clients who are from India. Two of our banks are from India, and I am currently doing business with one of them.
> Its a unique, beautiful, culture. I will love to visit India soon,to learn of their history,culture and so on. My Indian friends tell me that Jaipur in Rajasthan is the place to go.


My Indian friend told me not to go! Honestly I'm kind of a wimp physically and I don't think I could deal with the heat, smells, toilets or lack thereof. Or the food. It's a shame because otherwise I would love to go.


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## learning112

CM- his parents shouldn't be intolerant. What they admire most is career success & financial success. Long story short I'm literally as successful within my field as anyone of my age could possibly be. More successful than their own son & the salary is VERY high. The problem is that my ex didn't even talk to them about me- never even told them, and his info source here is that his brother told him that his parents will disown him - it wasn't even an actual convo my ex had with them himself!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

learning112 said:


> CM- *his parents shouldn't be intolerant. What they admire most is career success & financial success. Long story short I'm literally as successful within my field as anyone of my age could possibly be. More successful than their own son & the salary is VERY high. *
> 
> Well these are my thoughts exactly!
> I understand you are in love with him, and you don't want to commit yourself, and be disappointed a second time.
> I think personally,they would view you as a great catch for their son to marry.
> My wife's family thought the same of me, even though I was not of the same race / religion.
> So that's why I'm questioning his motives. They seem puzzling to me.
> 
> 
> *The problem is that my ex didn't even talk to them about me- never even told them, and his info source here is that his brother told him that his parents will disown him - it wasn't even an actual convo my ex had with them himself!!*
> 
> This^^^right here is a huge problem IMO.
> Why hasn't he even mentioned you to them, or showed them a picture of his " friend?"
> Are you his first girlfriend?
> How many other girlfriends has he had before you?
> I find it odd that he would rely on his brother's assessment alone, to make his decision.
> My suggestion is to stop panicking , and don't beg him.
> Be firm with him and give him an ultimatum to meet his parents , either by phone or in real life.
> Chat with them.
> Then see what his reaction is.
> I suspect something is definitely not right.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## diwali123

I think they might be upset about a woman making more than the man.


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## learning112

When you say something is definitely not right, what do you mean? I've Been very hidden. A bunch of his good friends had a bday party for him in late May, & it was after our first breakup. At this time my ex was busy telling me how deeply he cared about me, meetin me for dinner & then kissing me good night after, etc- but his friends never invited me & he didn't ask me to come to the party once he found out about it- he claimed his phone was dead & his friends didn't invite me because they know how much he'd been hurting since the first breakup & want to keep us apart, which he claimed he didn't agree with- but he still let it go on!! And on Facebook even group photos where we aren't touching, if I'm in it then he hides it- but he hides no other photos ever. And in person around anyone we know he has always, always been more physically distant & like standoffish. Even at times we're dating. He claims he just wants to be private about his personal life but come on- for someone you claim is the love of your life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man

learning112 said:


> When you say something is definitely not right, what do you mean? I've Been very hidden. A bunch of his good friends had a bday party for him in late May, & it was after our first breakup. At this time my ex was busy telling me how deeply he cared about me, meetin me for dinner & then kissing me good night after, etc- but his friends never invited me & he didn't ask me to come to the party once he found out about it- he claimed his phone was dead & his friends didn't invite me because they know how much he'd been hurting since the first breakup & want to keep us apart, which he claimed he didn't agree with- but he still let it go on!! And on Facebook even group photos where we aren't touching, if I'm in it then he hides it- but he hides no other photos ever. And in person around anyone we know he has always, always been more physically distant & like standoffish. Even at times we're dating. He claims he just wants to be private about his personal life but come on- for someone you claim is the love of your life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry to tell you this,
But most likely,there is another woman in the picture.
He's waaaay to secretive with you.

Like I said, give him an ultimatum to introduce you to his parents, and see his reaction.
My feeling is that his parents may also know if there is another woman.

I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like there is someone else in the picture...

Do your own research without him knowing.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Caribbean Man said:


> Phoenix,
> First of all , _namastē_.
> Thanks for your kind words.
> Never knew you were of Indian origin!
> But I agree with your perspective on this issue.
> Maybe what the white girl needs to do is talk to other people who are of Indian origin , if she knows any.
> Also she might be able to get some good advice from people who are in mixed marriages like that of which she's contemplating.
> But she needs to give the man an ultimatum, because it seems she is very in love with him.
> I suspect that his parents may not be all that intolerant to her, after all they want the best for their son and she seems to be a good woman.
> [I have not read the entire thread]
> 
> My country is a very cosmopolitan one , many different races and religions.
> I have lots of business acquaintances and clients who are from India. Two of our banks are from India, and I am currently doing business with one of them.
> Its a unique, beautiful, culture. I will love to visit India soon,to learn of their history,culture and so on. My Indian friends tell me that Jaipur in Rajasthan is the place to go.


Namaste CM, _(It's very strange typing that when I normally say it person with a bow)._ 

As I'm still new here I decided against giving too much away about me, but as you see Learning's thread has weakened my resolve. So I broke my own rule, but I'm glad I did. 

That's exactly right, I want her to contact her Ex's brother since he know's him the best and what his parents are likely to do if he introduces Learning to them. Right now she needs some urgent inside knowledge and his brother is the best she has. She already knows his friends and as I stated somewhere in one of my posts (I think) I don't trust them.

Yes my family are starting to reconnect with India after being here in the UK for so long. So far, business is booming for many family members who have reconnected with India again. A unique culture indeed, you see why the British Empire grew so fast in the beginning because of India. It has pretty much everything Europe ever wanted and still does. Jaipur, oh yes some of family have already been there, they say the same thing. That's not to far from where my family comes from Gujarat. Make sure you take lots of photos, those memories will last you a life time.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> When you say something is definitely not right, what do you mean? I've Been very hidden. A bunch of his good friends had a bday party for him in late May, & it was after our first breakup. At this time my ex was busy telling me how deeply he cared about me, meetin me for dinner & then kissing me good night after, etc- but his friends never invited me & he didn't ask me to come to the party once he found out about it- he claimed his phone was dead & his friends didn't invite me because they know how much he'd been hurting since the first breakup & want to keep us apart, which he claimed he didn't agree with- but he still let it go on!! And on Facebook even group photos where we aren't touching, if I'm in it then he hides it- but he hides no other photos ever. And in person around anyone we know he has always, always been more physically distant & like standoffish. Even at times we're dating. He claims he just wants to be private about his personal life but come on- for someone you claim is the love of your life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Learning, as I said in my last post to CM, you need some inside knowledge of what your Ex is really like. You know his brother, so he is your best asset to uncovering what he is really like. Put your Sherlock Holmes hat on and go ask him some indirect questions about their parents and what their views are on marriage etc. Your Ex pretty much knows everything about YOU, it's time for YOU to know more about him. Once you have the answers your looking, good or bad, you'll be in a position to decide if you want to continue this one-sided relationship or take flight into another one where your new boyfriend will put you first!


----------



## Westwind

learning112 said:


> When you say something is definitely not right, what do you mean? I've Been very hidden. A bunch of his good friends had a bday party for him in late May, & it was after our first breakup. At this time my ex was busy telling me how deeply he cared about me, meetin me for dinner & then kissing me good night after, etc- but his friends never invited me & he didn't ask me to come to the party once he found out about it- he claimed his phone was dead & his friends didn't invite me because they know how much he'd been hurting since the first breakup & want to keep us apart, which he claimed he didn't agree with- but he still let it go on!! And on Facebook even group photos where we aren't touching, if I'm in it then he hides it- but he hides no other photos ever. And in person around anyone we know he has always, always been more physically distant & like standoffish. Even at times we're dating. He claims he just wants to be private about his personal life but come on- for someone you claim is the love of your life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So he wants to hide the fact that the two of you are together. Maybe his folks might see these pictures. It appears you still want him. Maybe this relationship just has to play its self out, the drama of it all. If his brother was disowned by his parents for not taking the bride of their choice, then they would probably disown him for the same thing.


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## Westwind

Here's a thought, have a group picture with his arm around you and yours around him. See what his folks say. If he will not do the picture, you know he is unlikely to do anything more formal like say he has an American girlfriend.


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## learning112

I'm sick of him being so passive. When I saw him the other day he was being so affectionate and "youll be back home again soon and we can see each other then, right?" He needs to give me a reason to make a trip home! It's also so passive to blame his life & how badly he's hurting me on his parents. His own brother just went against them for goodness sake, and my ex really looks up to his brother
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Explain to me again why you are still talking to him?


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## FlyingThePhoenix

"Learning" you better answer Turnera's question above, and it better be bloody good. Because if it's NOT! I'm going to ask the Mods to change your username from "*Learning112*" to "*Passive112*", how's THAT!!!!!!! 



> I'm sick of him being so passive.


Well *I'm sick of YOU being so passive!* _We're still on your side though, in case YOU forgot!_ :: at YOU!!!!


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## Wiserforit

learning112 said:


> So interesting. Why do several people think he's not being honest? He always seems so genuine, cries real tears over me.


Wow. A liar that can cry.


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## learning112

Maybe you guys are right- actions speak louder than words right? If he says I'm the love of his life but keeps me hidden from everyone & then breaks up with me again, isn't that a lie?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man

learning112 said:


> Maybe you guys are right- actions speak louder than words right? If he says I'm the love of his life but keeps me hidden from everyone & then breaks up with me again, isn't that a lie?!


What this guy appears to be doing to you is called " push & pull."
It is a game used by guys to keep a woman on the " edge" whilst they explore their options.
In your case it appears to be working well, because he has an alibi.
You must decide two things.
1]If he is telling the truth / playing games with you.
2]Even if he's telling the truth , whether you are willing to continue like this.


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## turnera

Why can you not value yourself enough to say "either you choose me 100% or I'm gone"?


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## diwali123

Listen to CM...he speaks the truth.


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## Westwind

What ever his motivation, CM, IMHO, has good points. See, the folks here are not involved emotionally so they can understand what you cannot about the relationship. They can perceive how one sided this is.


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## Wiserforit

learning112 said:


> Maybe you guys are right- actions speak louder than words right? If he says I'm the love of his life but keeps me hidden from everyone & then breaks up with me again, isn't that a lie?!


Posing these as questions when they are so obviously true demonstrates how deep your personality defect is.

I had the same defect, so take this as sharing a mutual bond, not a personal attack.

He can punch you in the face and tell you he is tickling your toe, and you would fall for it. This is the kind of defect that makes you prey to people with evil intentions. Like serial killers, con-men, rapists, and garden variety salesmen peddling crap products. 

So it isn't just important that you recognize this defect in yourself to extract from this abusive relationship. It is something that you need to fix in order to protect yourself from predators of all kinds, including the ones that can kill you.


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## learning112

Wiserforit said:


> He can punch you in the face and tell you he is tickling your toe, and you would fall for it.


Of course I would. i love him and he told me i'm the love of his life. why wouldn't i trust the guy? do i want to believe that i have such horrible judgment that i was somehow completely blindsided?


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## VeggieMom

Did you get my PM??


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## Caribbean Man

learning112 said:


> Of course I would. i love him and he told me i'm the love of his life. why wouldn't i trust the guy? do i want to believe that i have such horrible judgment that i was somehow completely blindsided?


Stop being so hard on yourself.
Love can make us do strange things sometimes.
We all get blindsided sometimes, we're only human , after all.

It is not a bad thing that you fall in love so deeply that you give your all.
But love is supposed to be a two way street , giving and receiving, in order for it to grow and be sustainable over a long period.
Actions _always_ speak louder than words...


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## turnera

learning112 said:


> Of course I would. i love him and he told me i'm the love of his life. why wouldn't i trust the guy? do i want to believe that i have such horrible judgment that i was somehow completely blindsided?


 IDK, you're ready to become his mistress just so he won't leave you, what does _that_ say about you?


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## Westwind

Lets see what his parents say.


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## learning112

Let's be real, this a**hole is never going to tell his parents at all -- just whine about how he "can't be with me" when he never even told them about me, and his own brother is busy fighting an arranged marriage even though HE isn't claiming to have some other woman who's the love of his life.


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## diwali123

learning112 said:


> Let's be real, this a**hole is never going to tell his parents at all -- just whine about how he "can't be with me" when he never even told them about me, and his own brother is busy fighting an arranged marriage even though HE isn't claiming to have some other woman who's the love of his life.


I'm so glad to hear you say that!


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## learning112

Thanks! I mean, it's true. Actions speak louder than words & he isn't the first man to mislead a woman to get what he wants out of a situation.


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## diwali123

Exactly. I'm so glad you get it.
Now go take your hot self and find a real man who wants to meet your emotional needs.


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## Westwind

It's hard to find a good man, takes work. We, in our culture, have this romantic idea that love just happens, but in reality, you need to find someone with the same values you have, and someone without any personality disorders.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> Let's be real, this a**hole is never going to tell his parents at all -- just whine about how he "can't be with me" when he never even told them about me, and his own brother is busy fighting an arranged marriage even though HE isn't claiming to have some other woman who's the love of his life.


Your showing anger here and that's in part great, your finally seeing your situation in it's true reality. His brother, I know exactly what he is going through right now, and he is the kind of man that you should be looking for in your life, someone that will stand his ground for you and only you. Your ex is on the fence watching his brother take all the hits from their parents/family while he's playing it safe, like he always has. 



learning112 said:


> Thanks! I mean, it's true. Actions speak louder than words & he isn't the first man to mislead a woman to get what he wants out of a situation.


Well said! This is where you and his brother are now: Word(s) + Action(s) = Result(s). Your Ex, he just knows words.



diwali123 said:


> Exactly. I'm so glad you get it.
> Now go take your hot self and find a real man who wants to meet your emotional needs.


Oh Diwali, this put a smile on my face...

Learning, if my last post to you offended you, then please accept my apology. I was not trying to offend you, but I can see that it would appear that way, it was meant to wake you up, and I hope it has.


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## learning112

Thank you FTP!! I am so sad, but I'm truly starting to believe that a man who loved me -- not just gave me empty words - would've done more, just like his own brother did. Telling me he "can't" be with me when he literally never even mentioned me to his family once... is cowardly! It's not like I changed races overnight; he knew this right from the beginning yet still chose to string me along so many times.


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## nandosbella

Well, I didn't go through all the posts, but I got a feeling of what you're going through. my hubs is from Pakistan. he eventually told his parents after 3 years of marriage. but it did damage the relationship to me. I lost a lot of respect for him over the years for not having the balls to stand up for me. 

for me it was a lot of heartache with very little pay off. if someone were to ask me if it was worth it?.... I really don't know what i'd say. but I will tell you, at least in my in-laws case... it really wasn't that serious. they were upset with him for a while... and he was hiding a lot more than your bf... I mean... 3 years of marriage??? but they got over it. I wouldn't suggest anyone go through the crap that I went through for as long as I did, but if you love him.. and you really believe he loves you... he'll do it......... eventually. good luck!


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## learning112

But my ex wasnt trying to continue a relationship, just feeding me lines about how i'm the love of his life and he wants us to share our lives forever -- "as friends" while he marries someone else!!! Apparently because he "has no choice." Even though his own older brother is actively fighting an arranged marriage now.

How disrespectful to me that he never even tried telling his parents even though he told me he would... he just strung me along with empty words and continues to want to string me along while he marries someone who's more convenient.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> But my ex wasnt trying to continue a relationship, just feeding me lines about how i'm the love of his life and he wants us to share our lives forever -- "as friends" while he marries someone else!!! Apparently because he "has no choice." Even though his own older brother is actively fighting an arranged marriage now.
> 
> How disrespectful to me that he never even tried telling his parents even though he told me he would... he just strung me along with empty words and continues to want to string me along while he marries someone who's more convenient.


Learning, I’m detecting some real deep emotions of anger coming to the surface here. 

Q. Do have any close friends to talk about this with?

If you’re not already doing this, may I recommend you start a journal for yourself and each day write down a sentence or paragraph, and then review those entries over the weekend. Over time you will start to see patterns and then pictures from your own words of your true feelings of what you were thinking, at the time you wrote those words. This will help you come to terms with his lies and hopefully show a way to move forward with your life without him.


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## turnera

learning112 said:


> feeding me lines about how i'm the love of his life and he wants us to share our lives forever -- "as friends" while he marries someone else!!!


mis·tress (m







s) 
_n._ *1. *A woman who has a continuing sexual relationship with a usually married man who is not her husband and from whom she generally receives material support


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## nandosbella

turnera... that's a harmful word in my opinion. I don't think it's necessary or applicable here. I was called that so many times on this forum; trust me, it hurts. don't throw that word around. 

learning - I dunno if this will make you feel better, but my hubs did the same thing. he went back home and had an engagement ceremony with another girl while we were dating. when I found out about it, that's when he asked me to marry him. my hubs lived a double life for 3 years. most of his time was spent with me, but part of his time was spent with them. it tore me apart. 

but the double life thing is not uncommon in their culture. I had two different jobs where two different girls hid their respective husbands/boyfriends from their parents. it's just a weird parental relationship that you and I will NEVER understand. 

but the friend thing is not something I could endure. the only reason I agreed to shelter his parents for so long was because of his willingness to completely commit to a marriage. it's legal... irreversible... and it showed me that eventually everything would pan out (cuz divorcing a white girl is a whole lot worse than marrying one). 

if he's not willing to commit, then I agree with you... his words are empty. he is just stringing you along. he might feel torn BECAUSE his brother is fighting the arrangement. if one sibling goes against culture... having the other go against might put more pressure on him. i'm not in any way defending him, but maybe that's his perspective. 

feel free to message me if you ever need anyone to talk to. I remember getting beat up on TAM about my situation and it just made me feel worse. i'd love to offer any advice I can...


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## turnera

*shrug*

She's finding a dozen reasons to keep in contact with a man who - now that she's admitting to it - has a habit of leading her on, with no real intention of giving her more. What is this other than the situation I described?


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## Westwind

Okay, now that you are on the way out of bad relationship, what to do now. I am reading Falling In Love For All The Right Reasons by Neil Clark Warren of eharmony.com fame. He was a marriage counselor for 37 years and has developed a list of dimensions that need to be met for a happy marriage. I am most of the way through the book and have to agree with his dimensions when I compare what I have experienced with my own marriage and his book. We spent about $40,000 in today’s money in marriage counseling. What happened was I slowly developed towards her nature for the match of dimensions in Warren’s book and she took up much of my qualities from me. This is a lot of hard work and money and I do not recommend it. A person needs to be matched to another for dimensions Warren has developed that he describes in his book. There is a range of ways of being in these dimensions and potential spouses have to match closely within a range in a dimension. From the table of contents, these are:

Screening Dimensions:

Good Character
The Quality of Your Self-Conception
Watch Out for Red Flags
Anger Management
Obstreperousness
Understandings About Family
Family Background

Core Personal Dimensions:
Similar Energy Levels
Spirituality
Education
Appearance
Sense of Humor
Mood Management
Traditional Versus Nontraditional Personalities
Ambition
Sexual Passion
Artistic Passion
Values
Industry
Curiosity
Vitality and Security
Autonomy Versus Closeness

Skills That Can Be Developed:
Communication
Conflict Resolution
Sociability

Qualities That Can Be Developed:
Adaptability
Kindness
Dominance Versus Submissiveness

Chemistry—The Key Factor
Commitment—The Glue That Keeps It All Together


It also occurs to me that you said you are good looking. This is a mixed blessing as a male is a visual sort of creature and can be really mesmerized by a woman’s good looks and does not stop to look at the person contained within that beauty. I am not sure what you would think of this suggestion, but if you go with match.com or eharmony.com or another dating site to help distract you from your angst in the breakup, maybe you can do an outdoor action picture or two with sunglasses and hat or a picture with the sun to your back to tone down the good looks with a pillow for the appearance of a little extra weight. If you own a cute dog or cat put that in the picture for a little distraction. That way a guy is more likely to consider what your autobiography says rather than be stunned by your looks. However, you could skip the picture and say you will get one, but that your friends say you are good looking. That way it is not a visual thing for a guy to latch onto. If I remember right, about a third of the dating contacts are now made online. It is also easier as a lot of screening is done for you and you can cover a lot of ground quickly in a search. Of course you will most likely have to go through a lot of emails go find likely prospects to correspond with. If you do not go online for your search, the information in this book can be used for doing your own screenings.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

turnera said:


> *shrug*
> 
> She's finding a dozen reasons to keep in contact with a man who - now that she's admitting to it - has a habit of leading her on, with no real intention of giving her more. What is this other than the situation I described?


I agree Learning is in LOVE with this "boy" that much is VERY clear by her words to date! But she's not a mistress yet, but potentially could be, she needs to break out of this loop of her's, of attempting find reasons to understand him. Her Ex is sitting on the fence watching his brother fighting his parents against an arranged marriage, he's playing the safe game which is the cowards game.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

nandosbella said:


> feel free to message me if you ever need anyone to talk to. I remember getting beat up on TAM about my situation and it just made me feel worse. i'd love to offer any advice I can...


Somebody tried to beat you up on TAM , I don't like bullies any version of them, care to point me in their direction...


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## turnera

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> I agree Learning is in LOVE with this "boy" that much is VERY clear by her words to date! But she's not a mistress yet, but potentially could be, she needs to break out of this loop of her's, of attempting find reasons to understand him. Her Ex is sitting on the fence watching his brother fighting his parents against an arranged marriage, he's playing the safe game which is the cowards game.


 No, I never said she WAS a mistress. I said that's the life she would be choosing if she agrees to be his 'friend' just to keep him in her life. Lots of women get sucked into that existence with lies and 'some day' talk.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

turnera said:


> mis·tress (m
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s)
> _n._ *1. *A woman who has a continuing sexual relationship with a usually married man who is not her husband and from whom she generally receives material support


With all due respect, you quoted the above....



turnera said:


> No, I never said she WAS a mistress. I said that's the life she would be choosing if she agrees to be his 'friend' just to keep him in her life. Lots of women get sucked into that existence with lies and 'some day' talk.


I never said "WAS", I said *"But she's not a mistress yet, but potentially could be"*. However, I absolutely agree YOU about the rest of your statement above.


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## learning112

Nandosbella's story is confusing me. Maybe my ex would've ended up with me but I'm just ruining everything by putting pressure on him to not "keep me hidden" and telling him he's being disrespectful to me & refusing to just be friends for now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You're not ruining anything, learning. You were standing up for what a real relationship must be based on.


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## VeggieMom

learning123, I just want to say I'm so proud of you for seeing the truth of the situation. And for becoming angry about it. You have every right to be angry and sometimes it's a very useful and healthy emotion. I agree to talk this out with a good friend if you are able to. You have been through a lot. I'm glad he's an ex now.


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## Caribbean Man

nandosbella said:


> I remember getting beat up on TAM about my situation and it just made me feel worse.* i'd love to offer any advice I can...*


Glad that you can help her understand much better, being a female and having experienced almost the same thing.

BTW, sorry that somebody " beat you up" earlier and you felt bad.
However it has gotten much worse, now they "gang up" on you.

Watch your steps.


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## learning112

I just feel so empty and miserable without him, and given all the strong words he gave to me, I can't believe he isn't feeling the same and would settle for an arranged marriage + a life without me/ knowing that he's hurting me forever.


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## Westwind

learning112 said:


> I just feel so empty and miserable without him, and given all the strong words he gave to me, I can't believe he isn't feeling the same and would settle for an arranged marriage + a life without me/ knowing that he's hurting me forever.


I think you said he wants to be with you, but not have a sexual relationship. I think he is mesmerized by you beauty and not seeing your feelings caused by lack of intimacy and no promise of marriage. He is only aware of his feelings, not your feelings. To understand what is happening, you need to talk with him. Will he stand with you against his parents? I could be wrong, that he wants a beauty with him as his friend only because of his ego, but lets find out. Guys do this and the beautiful woman is called arm candy when there is no sex. Everyone here wants to know where he is really at.


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## VeggieMom

learning112 said:


> I just feel so empty and miserable without him, and given all the strong words he gave to me, I can't believe he isn't feeling the same and would settle for an arranged marriage + a life without me/ knowing that he's hurting me forever.


Forever is a long time . . this sound like you fell really hard for him, but you will not hurt this way forever. It will pass with some time. Allow yourself to hurt and cry and talk to friends. But make it a point to go out in public and go shopping and go to work/school and all those things that make you a functional person. 

I have had a couple of sad breakups-- I thought I was going to marry one guy after 4 years of dating and I was a mess for a long time. But I got over it. Hardly think about him, maybe like once a year I wonder how or what he's doing. But that's it.

It's very much the same feeling I had more recently with the death of my father. It's an awful feeling, especially when your ex doesn't feel the same hurt you do. It's a normal feeling and you have to just get through it.

This might be really helpful to you-- I know it was to me. 
http://www.squidoo.com/5-stages-of-grief-in-broken-relationship


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## turnera

learning, how old are you, again?


----------



## Caribbean Man

learning112 said:


> I just feel so empty and miserable without him, and given all the strong words he gave to me, I can't believe he isn't feeling the same and would settle for an arranged marriage + a life without me/ knowing that he's hurting me forever.


Have you confirmed your suspicions?
Have you been able to get answers to your questions surrounding his secrecy about both of you?

We are only saying what it looks like_ to us._ 
I think you might want to confirm that it is exactly what the others have said before making any final decisions.

That way you will be fully satisfied that you did the right thing , in the end.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> I just feel so empty and miserable without him, and given all the strong words he gave to me, I can't believe he isn't feeling the same and would settle for an arranged marriage + a life without me/ knowing that he's hurting me forever.


You're going to feel even more empty and miserable inside the longer this continues....



LaurenNabi said:


> *I personally dated a Saudi for four years and broke up because he refused to go push the issue against his parents and get married the end result was a lot of heartache and hurt. I am now married to a Persian man who immediately introduced me to his parents shortly after dating and so in my experience if he isn't willing to stand up to his parents for you now then he never will... I hate to say this but don't sell yourself short if he is hiding you from his family then that is an insult to you and you deserve better.*


You're 25, young and clearly in LOVE, LOUD and CLEAR on that front! Lauren has already been in your shoes, and she is the ONE person on this thread that knows exactly what you are going through right NOW!!!!! 

She has also given you the solution to your problem, which is LOUD and CLEAR....... 

Please Learning, follow Lauren's example and find a MAN who will put YOU FIRST! ONLY YOU!


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## turnera

You're only 25? And you've only been dating him for a year? learning, you have your whole life ahead of you to meet someone who's right for you, ok? There are tons of men you're going to meet in the next 5 years, and one of them is bound to be the right one.


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## Westwind

learning112 said:


> I just feel so empty and miserable without him, and given all the strong words he gave to me, I can't believe he isn't feeling the same and would settle for an arranged marriage + a life without me/ knowing that he's hurting me forever.


I mentioned the book Falling In Love For All The Right Reasons by Neil Clark Warren in an earlier post about finding the right person so you will be much more likely to not get hurt. There's another book Do Gentlemen Really Prefer Blondes?: Bodies, Behavior, and Brains--The Science Behind Sex, Love, & Attraction by Jena Pincott , which explains why people are physically attracted to each other. The physical attraction can short circuit the intellectual brain so one has to be careful in how a potential mate is approached.


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## turnera

Another amazing book on that subject is Getting The Love You Want, by Hendrix. It explains the psychological attraction you feel, in terms of finding a mate who will 'fix' the stuff you felt you were missing growing up. Like if your mom was unaffectionate, you may seek out a VERY affectionate partner, to 'heal' that part of you that craved affection.

Unfortunately, just as you're seeking someone to fix YOU, your mate is seeking someone to fix HIM/HER. And, after the PEA chemicals (lust) fade away after 4 or 5 years, the resentment steps in at their 'failure' to give you what you need, and downhill it goes.

Which is why we always tell people to fix themselves, solve their own problems, before finding another partner. Else you'll just repeat the same story by picking the same person.


----------



## diwali123

turnera said:


> Another amazing book on that subject is Getting The Love You Want, by Hendrix. It explains the psychological attraction you feel, in terms of finding a mate who will 'fix' the stuff you felt you were missing growing up. Like if your mom was unaffectionate, you may seek out a VERY affectionate partner, to 'heal' that part of you that craved affection.
> 
> Unfortunately, just as you're seeking someone to fix YOU, your mate is seeking someone to fix HIM/HER. And, after the PEA chemicals (lust) fade away after 4 or 5 years, the resentment steps in at their 'failure' to give you what you need, and downhill it goes.
> 
> Which is why we always tell people to fix themselves, solve their own problems, before finding another partner. Else you'll just repeat the same story by picking the same person.


I have to second that book recommendation. And sometimes you choose someone who is similar to a parent or even a sibling. Sometimes you pick people who are the exact opposite of a parent.


----------



## nishi_25

learning112 said:


> Originally he told me it could not happen in his family until we were very serious (right before getting engaged). Then he broke up with me saying his parents would never approve & he didn't want to hurt them. However, he became very depressed for months after he left me. Now he is asking if we can get back together because he's found he just can't be without me.
> 
> He said it's a huge step & right now is too soon, when he's only known me 6 months total and it'll be 3 more months before he knows where he'll be stationed for work for the next 2 years (we might be long distance for all that time!). But I want to decide how long I'm willing to wait for our relationship to progress to the next level... And if realistically he's ever planning on standing up to his parents for me anyhow!


If you two are in love, seriously in love, then go for it!  my husband and i are 2 different religions, my family was not ok with it obviously. but we are madly in love with eachother, and as long as you have love, Allaah SWT is okay with it. You should consider that you should be staying at home, learn to cook, give him children, and always respect him as your husband, dress modestly, and learn to be a good wife. This situation I think is common. Usually the parents end up not approving of it, for fear that an american woman will not be faithful and respectful, etc. But you should meet with his mother, or have your father meet his family first. This should have happened first, before you guys decided to become gf and bf. But doesnt always happen like this. Have your parents meet his parents first, then read this link, it will help you understand what his parents are expecting of you: http://anamikas.hubpages.com/hub/How-to-be-a-good-wife-to-your-husband-qualities Hope all goes well! :smthumbup:


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello nishi,



nishi_25 said:


> If you two are in love, seriously in love, then go for it!  my husband and i are 2 different religions, my family was not ok with it obviously. but we are madly in love with eachother, and as long as you have love, Allaah SWT is okay with it. You should consider that you should be staying at home, learn to cook, give him children, and always respect him as your husband, dress modestly, and learn to be a good wife. *(1) This situation I think is common. Usually the parents end up not approving of it, for fear that an american woman will not be faithful and respectful, etc. But you should meet with his mother, or have your father meet his family first. This should have happened first, before you guys decided to become gf and bf. But doesnt always happen like this. Have your parents meet his parents first, then read this link, it will help you understand what his parents are expecting of you: * http://anamikas.hubpages.com/hub/How-to-be-a-good-wife-to-your-husband-qualities Hope all goes well! :smthumbup:


Sadly Learning's EX can't / won't do ANY of *(1)* or even MAN-UP to his parents/family that he is in "LOVE" _(I have to pinch myself every time I say that word about him....)_ with Learning! This is sadly a one-sided relationship that's going nowhere for her. 

Interesting article though......


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## learning112

He found out I was really sick recently & was texting me out of concern, then immediately making reference to me getting well soon so we could hang out & (do a few of our favorite old activities)... It's like all my words about how I won't associate w him if he marries someone else literally went right over his head
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Why should he stop? All you give him is words, but your ACTIONS say otherwise - you keep talking to him, seeing him, making plans with him.


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## learning112

That's because I want to. I act consistent with what I want hoping he genuinely won't be able to/choose to/want to be without me in end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Ah, so you're manipulating him. And yet you complain that he isn't morphing into the strong, secure man you wish he was.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> That's because I want to. I act consistent with what I want hoping he genuinely won't be able to/choose to/want to be without me in end.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a new side of YOU?



LaurenNabi said:


> *(1)* I personally dated a Saudi for four years and broke up because he refused to go push the issue against his parents and get married the end result was a lot of heartache and hurt.
> 
> *(2)* I am now married to a Persian man who immediately introduced me to his parents shortly after dating and so in my experience if he isn't willing to stand up to his parents for you now then he never will... I hate to say this but don't sell yourself short if he is hiding you from his family then that is an insult to you and you deserve better.


Learning I need to know this....

*Q.* Have you read Lauren's post above (All of them) ?

You are right now *(1)*, You need to be *(2)* where Lauren is NOW!

She's been through the PAIN and the HURT you are going through NOW! Which is it *(1)* OR *(2)*?


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## learning112

FTP, it's Nandosbella's story that made me feel so confused and conflicted. Because look, my ex acts like he's goign to follow his parents but then always is right back to talking abotu when we'll spend time together again... ignoring all my talk about how we can never be close again because I won't associate if he marries someone else... making me think he's never actually going to do it.


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## Coffee Amore

learning112 said:


> That's because I want to. I act consistent with what I want hoping he genuinely won't be able to/choose to/want to be without me in end.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're only fooling yourself. As I pointed out several days ago in another post, you're making this into some great big star crossed love affair that's being prevented by his big bad parents. He will easily find someone else within his culture. There are enough attractive, educated Indian women compatible with his background. And the person who will then feel foolish is you and you'll also be heartbroken. You're also foolishly putting your life on hold hoping that with continued contact he won't be able to leave you. Men (and women) leave people all the time shocking the other spouse. Even children, marriages of 20 years or more, a shared history together doesn't stop someone from leaving. You don't even have any of those things with him. You only have a long distance 6 month relationship. 

I'm sorry, but I find what you're doing incredibly naive.


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## learning112

I think you make good points. But when I go on current evidence why would I really think he'd abandon me for someone else in the end. He knows very well i won't ever see him again if he chose the path of marrying someone else, yet just 2 days ago he was busy talking about making plans and seeing each other again and doing things we used to do on dates.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> I think you make good points. But when I go on current evidence why would I really think he'd abandon me for someone else in the end. He knows very well i won't ever see him again if he chose the path of marrying someone else, yet just 2 days ago he was busy talking about making plans and seeing each other again and doing things we used to do on dates.


Why would you think he would abandon you for someone else? Because he is not making you the priority in his life now. To do that he would have to tell his parents about you.

You are his fun, American fling, he loves spending time with you. But you are not marriage material to him. You would, however work out well as a mistress or woman on the side. He's already told you that.

Believe his actions... his actions are that he is not willing to bring you into his family. But he's willing to play with you. 

Drama is so much fun.. but it will destroy your life.


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## learning112

But no action he's taken thus far is actually consistent with someone looking to go through with an arranged marriage... he is always talking to me and talking about what we'll do when we see each other again, not cutting me off preparing to move on... he has not actually "moved on".


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## Westwind

learning112 said:


> But no action he's taken thus far is actually consistent with someone looking to go through with an arranged marriage... he is always talking to me and talking about what we'll do when we see each other again, not cutting me off preparing to move on... he has not actually "moved on".


Has he cut off sex? Maybe you should ask him if he is staying with that. What does he want from you? Can you work up to these questions with him? You can probe softly if you like, but do try to get some answers. Too much guessing about what he wants.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

learning112 said:


> *But no action* he's taken thus far is actually consistent with someone looking to go through with an arranged marriage... he is always *talking* to me and *talking* about what we'll do when we see each other again, not cutting me off preparing to move on... he has not actually "moved on".


WORDS, WORDS, WORDS where's the ACTION, ACTION, ACTION? You've just created your VERY own continuous loop of listening to his WORDS.

Q. Have YOU contacted his brother and confirmed one way or another what their parents are planning to do for the both of them?

I asked this question some posts ago, are you going to answer this one.


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## turnera

Why can you just not say this:

"I love you, but I can't stay with you unless you tell your parents about me. Here's the phone. Call them. If you can't call them, we have nothing more to say and I'm leaving."


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## learning112

turnera said:


> Why can you just not say this:
> 
> "I love you, but I can't stay with you unless you tell your parents about me. Here's the phone. Call them. If you can't call them, we have nothing more to say and I'm leaving."


I feel like life isn't so black and white -- because he's in a ridiculously stressful career period with lots of pressure and uncertainty for a few more months, and it's not the time for that kind of stuff (I'm saying this as much as he is, knowing the situation). Also, what if you told a guy you were dating for 6 months, "Give me a ring now or I'm leaving"? To me it's the same level of seriousness/commitment.

And I haven't talked to his brother because I think it would be awkward and/or I wouldn't get answers. What about talking to the girl that I now know is the reason his older brother is fighting their parents? She and I have hung out before.


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## turnera

I figured you'd have an excuse.

Why did you come here? Why do you keep beating this dead horse? It's obvious you have no intention of giving up and you'll probably be back here in 5 or 6 years, moaning that he still won't put a ring on your finger or tell his parents.

Just be honest with yourself, and you'll spare yourself a lot of heartache.


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## learning112

I have been/continue to date multiple other men. If I find someone I like more and start a new relationship, that'd be awesome. But there's something about my ex that I just can't shake. the way anything can happen - intense converstions, drama, me moving far far away - and yet it still always comes back to caring about each other and him talking about when we will spend time together next. and once we are in person, you see us both melt every time. it seems like something that has permanence because it's something a lot of people would have cut off a long time ago (one person or the other).


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## Coffee Amore

I also wonder why you still continue to post here. The original question you posted (What should an Indian man tell his parents...) has been answered many times by many posters. You don't want advice from anyone here. You seem to use this thread as almost a personal blog of what he said/what you did/what you said/what he did, rinse lather repeat. What's happening in your relationship isn't rocket science or even unique to you. 

I'm out of this thread. I wish you the best....


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## imtamnew

I am an Indian guy. If I had a girl I wanted to marry I would marry her. Not make these kind of excuses.

Move on.


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## turnera

learning112 said:


> I have been/continue to date multiple other men.


Uh huh. Sure. 

I don't see you agonizing about these OTHER men. 

The truth is, you WANT him to choose you officially, he isn't, but you looooove him so you'll wait him out until you figure out a way to MAKE him choose you.

What is all this teaching you about yourself?


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## Starstarfish

If you aren't in contact with his brother or his parents, what exactly is your guarantee at this point, besides his word (which isn't exactly trustworthy, given how he dumped you like a hot rock before) that indeed isn't engaged/betrothed?


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## Caribbean Man

I think she's young , full of ideals and in love.


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## Starstarfish

So were a lot of people before they ended up on TAM, CM. 

Isn't that the point though - people come here for advice when the whole young, full of ideals, and in love thing doesn't quite pan out as planned? We are just trying to provide advice ahead of time. 

But - the point of this thread doesn't seem to be wanting advice, it's a blog for the OP to convince herself that everything is fine, and all of this drama will end with some epic Twilight conclusion.


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## Caribbean Man

I was wondering the same thing.
I'm hoping though, that she takes the bull by its horns and stop putting her life into his hands.
This is 2013.


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## turnera

learning, we're really not trying to beat you up. We're trying to help you, by helping you understand that you're trying to control a situation that is NOT yours to control. I've seen hundreds of young women just like you who think you're in love and that, if you'd just hang in there, you'll get the man to turn into something he's not, that you can 'change' him. But you can't. He's already shown you who he is.

Listen to him.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> I feel like life isn't so black and white -- because he's in a ridiculously stressful career period with lots of pressure and uncertainty for a few more months, and it's not the time for that kind of stuff (I'm saying this as much as he is, knowing the situation).


More excuses that you are making for him. Is he such a weak person that he cannot handle a career and a personal life? Really? With the way you talk about his inability to handle normal things in life, how could he ever handle a career, a wife and children? From your accounts of him, he's too emotionally weak to handle a normal life. Somehow I think this is all just a way to make huge excuses for him. You do not need a boy (yes a boy because a man can handle all that life throws to them.) who has excuses for how he cannot handle the normal things in life.



learning112 said:


> Also, what if you told a guy you were dating for 6 months, "Give me a ring now or I'm leaving"? To me it's the same level of seriousness/commitment.


If your relationship is not far enough along for you to be asking for a ring, then why are you here with all this drama? Then your relationship is not far enough along for you to be worrying about if he tells his parents. It's not far enough along for you to even know if he is the love of your life. 





learning112 said:


> And I haven't talked to his brother because I think it would be awkward and/or I wouldn't get answers.


So you think that his brother would not take you seriously? Well, maybe that's because he knows what his brother's (your male friend's) real feelings are about this silly relationship you have with him. And yes it's a silly relationship. Any relationship with this much drama is a waster of your time.



learning112 said:


> What about talking to the girl that I now know is the reason his older brother is fighting their parents? She and I have hung out before.


Sure talk to her. Do you think she would know anything about your male friend? Talking to her is a great way to create more drama.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> I have been/continue to date multiple other men. If I find someone I like more and start a new relationship, that'd be awesome. But there's something about my ex that I just can't shake. the way anything can happen - intense converstions, *drama*, me moving far far away - and yet it still always comes back to caring about each other and him talking about when we will spend time together next. and once we are in person, you see us both melt every time. it seems like something that has permanence because it's something a lot of people would have cut off a long time ago (one person or the other).


What you describe here is lust. It's not love and it's not what good relationships are made of.

As long as you keep him in your life, you are too tied up in the drama of this relationship and you will most likely not be able to form a strong bond with any other guy.

The more you write about your "ex" the more it sounds like you are convenient. He does not have to put much effort into the relationship. He can lie and make excuses for why he cannot be committed to you.. but you will be there for him and available to meet his needs any time he calls you up. How convenient for him that you continue to let him use you like this.

But it's your choice. Since you choose to let him use you, why are you then complaining? I'm confused.


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## learning112

EleGirl said:


> With the way you talk about his inability to handle normal things in life, how could he ever handle a career, a wife and children? From your accounts of him, he's too emotionally weak to handle a normal life.


I see this viewpoint, almost like he's a genius who's emotionally stunted... So many different sets of excuses (first career pressure, then family disowning him, then long distance, etc etc) to keep me at arms length yet he refuses to ever completely let me go... Even just the other night, expressing how much he cared about me being sick and saying I had to get better soon so we could play tennis together, one of our old favorite date activities. I just keep feeling with a person like this that if I'm patient, he'll eventually come around and mature.


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## Starstarfish

Even if he matures, that's no guarantee you won't still be deep in the friend zone.


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## turnera

learning112 said:


> I see this viewpoint, almost like he's a genius who's emotionally stunted... I just keep feeling with a person like this that if I'm patient, he'll eventually come around and mature.


So I was right. You think you can CHANGE him.

Instead of looking at YOURSELF, you expect to change HIM.

Eventually, YOU will become wise/mature enough (have experienced enough in life) to realize you CAN'T change someone else. All you have control over is yourself.

DD22's best friend dated a POS guy she kept thinking she could 'mold' into what she wanted. She got pregnant and got stuck with him. They are MISERABLE. We keep hoping and praying they will just give up and leave each other. She has tried to make him stop smoking, stop drinking, stop partying, etc. The problem is, those are HIS CHOICES. Not hers. He can hide it, he can sneak it, but unless HE wants to change, he WON'T. She just found a pack of cigarettes in his car and kicked him out for a couple days for lying. What did she expect?

Finally, what it is about him that you think he will 'mature' out of - it isn't a matter of maturity. It's his CULTURE that keeps him from standing up to his parents. It's his FEAR of displeasing his parents that keeps him from standing up to them. It's his TEMPERAMENT that won't allow him to stand up to people for fear of their displeasure. Those aren't maturity issues, learning. They are personality issues. Personality doesn't change.

Even if you did browbeat him into marrying you, he will always be his parents' b*tch and will NEVER defend you to them, when they harass you for intruding into their life and culture. You will spend a miserable life, waiting for him to 'mature' into a man who defends his wife against his parents.

The only out I'll give you in this scenario is IF you can get him to tell his parents - and then watch what happens. You'll KNOW if he'll defend you. Just don't wait 5 years for it.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> I see this viewpoint, almost like he's a genius who's emotionally stunted... So many different sets of excuses (first career pressure, then family disowning him, then long distance, etc etc) to keep me at arms length yet he refuses to ever completely let me go... Even just the other night, expressing how much he cared about me being sick and saying I had to get better soon so we could play tennis together, one of our old favorite date activities. I just keep feeling with a person like this that if I'm patient, he'll eventually come around and mature.


Emotionally stunted people do not change and become emotionally healthy people. This is who is he is. In life, emotional intelligence is often far more important than intellectual intelligence. This world is full of geniuses who cannot function on a normal basis. 

I have a very good book about emotional intelligence. It cites a study that followed people for decades. The findings were that those who we think of a geniuses very often do not do well in life. The often end up not even being able to hold a job. Your friend’s current job problems come to mind. Yet the study found that those who we think of as not quite genius. Often the B/C grade crowd make more money, have more successful personal & family lives, have better jobs, etc. Why? Because they have more emotional intelligence.

What you see right now with this guy is what you get. This is all there is and all there ever will be.

You are hoping that he changes and becomes someone he is not. So what does that tell us? That you really do not like who he is. What you like is the attention, compliments, etc from him. It makes you feel good. So you want to keep him around.. but you want to change him into who you want him to be.


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## learning112

EleGirl said:


> This world is full of geniuses who cannot function on a normal basis.



I think both of us have deteriorated to nonfunctional. A typical conversation between us is as follows:

Me: "Well, you'll have to tell me if that painting gets accepted by the art museum! Unless you get married or whatever, I always want to hear what's going on in your life. It matters a lot to me."

Him: "Will keep you updated  And likewise."

Something tells me this is not normal. I mean, how do I respond to that? I dont. Do I say "You mean you'll let me know if you get married? Awesome can't wait!"


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## diwali123

There are many men out there who are mature, who have a lot of emotional intelligence and will be able to love and support you. 
You just need to get over this guy. 
The biggest mistake younger people make is trying to take on a project. I don't know if I said that already to you. 
I did it with my first husband. I looked at his potential and what he said he wanted instead of who he was and what his actions were. 
You need to find a finished product, not a project.


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## learning112

diwali123 said:


> You need to find a finished product, not a project.


That actually makes sense. I'm glad I'm at least going on other dates. How would you interpret that convo? My ex trying to live in denial that I'm gonna stop talking to him once he gets married? It doesn't mean that he's not 100% set on doing so, right? I figured he'd respond with something like "Well it's going to happen eventually, you know..."


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## turnera

How do you get that you said you'd stop talking to him? YOU said "I always want to hear what's going on in your life." You're the one giving mixed signals.


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## learning112

he's said that same thing to me multiple times recently... And I clearly told him that I care a lot about him but refuse to keep talking if he were to pursue marrying someone else, because I can't do something so horrible to myself. That is the part he does not comment on.


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## learning112

At the end of the day, all I have is a guy who breaks up with me once claiming it was because of the distance, then asks me to get back together right before I actually move. Calls me the love of his life, claims he'll tell his parents, then the next week "oh I can't tell my parents ever & I'll marry whomever they want." Yet all the while keeps telling me I'm so important to him, talking about when he will see me again and what we'll do.

This is depressing and confusing all in one.


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## turnera

We know what his words are.

What are his actions?

Actions matter, not words.


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## learning112

Good point. Pure actions? Leaves me, comes back with romantic kisses, holding hands, embracing. Leaves me again, still continues romantic embraces, making plans, but won't do a thing to make us a public couple... Cries a lot of tears over me, even in front of me, about how he just can't be with me because of his family. But always, in my presence, a sweet embrace...


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## learning112

I guess it's stupid that I'm wondering about this guy. Actions speak louder than words. His actions are to keep me hidden and not tell his family, and break up with me multiple times whenever it suits him, and expect me to still be friends and stand on the side while he marries & starts a life with smoeone else -- as if that's fair or reasonable!! So what more do I need to know?


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## turnera

Look at it this way.

I'm sure you spent time in your teens envisioning what marriage would look like. Did THAT guy put his family above you? Of course not. So why are you settling for it now? There are millions of men out there, learning. Go find one who wants to have a normal, loving relationship where he can show you off to his friends and family.


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## learning112

True but he had so many other qualities I wanted, and I kept assumign this hiding me from family would change. Guess not. Right now I'm just so upset that he literally thinks we can be "friends forever."... how could he possibly think I can stand by and watch him marry someone else??? If he really cared about me, he wouldn't put me in that position to begin with...


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## learning112

Can anyone explain why he says he keeps praying that eventually I'll want to be friends? How does he not see 1) that that's incredbily selfish, for me to stand by and listen to him talk about his WIFE someday, and 2) that if he really loved me like he kept claiming, he would sacrifice and be with me? He never even tried 1 time to tell his family!!! Even after his older brother did fight them


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## Starstarfish

We've tried explaining, Learning, but - either you can't or don't want to listen. You know that quip about definition of insanity right, trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 

Every day you post wanting an explanation, and hope that it's going to be different than the day before. That he'll suddenly just realize that the situation is at the least unfair if not totally wrong, and he'll tell his parents, fighting them like his brother, and you'll be together forever. 

He doesn't want to do that. He isn't going to do that. He's what is known around here as "a cake eater." He wants to get married to the girl his parents choose for him, keep his parents blessing, use the dowry to support his aging father. And he wants to keep you on as an "emotional mistress" - this is his definition of "friends."
He wants to keep doing "dating" activities with you, and enjoying your company while also keeping the security of his family. For him - it's the best of both worlds. 

He may indeed love you, within his ideal of love. But his love for you is not the committed kind. He enjoys your company, and might indeed enjoy it to the degree of declaring you to be "the love of his life." But - it doesn't mean for him, I think, what you want it to mean, or what it means to you. 

So, honestly at this point - you can keep posting here daily, hoping to come up with a different answer, or you can put some serious efforts into moving on. But that's going to require you to go no-contact with this guy. You cannot maintain a relationship with him, as it keeps your hope brewing he'll do something he's made plain he's not going to do.


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## turnera

learning112 said:


> Can anyone explain why he says he keeps praying that eventually I'll want to be friends? How does he not see 1) that that's incredbily selfish, for me to stand by and listen to him talk about his WIFE someday, and 2) that if he really loved me like he kept claiming, he would sacrifice and be with me? He never even tried 1 time to tell his family!!! Even after his older brother did fight them


 learning, has it occurred to you yet - as it has to all of us - that he has been USING you this whole time, that he's a smooth talker, that his culture encourages keeping women on the side and he was grooming you for that, that he IS selfish?


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## Westwind

My cousin married an Indian, this was about fifty years ago. She was the daughter of medical missionaries and knew the language and culture so his parents thought the marriage would work. They were correct, it did.


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## learning112

This all makes so much sense. So basically, the childlike definition of love that he has for me- where he will never man up to his family & instead just ask me to stand on the side & watch him marry someone else- there's no way to change that or make him feel differently for me??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

No there isn't.


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## Westwind

learning112 said:


> This all makes so much sense. So basically, the childlike definition of love that he has for me- where he will never man up to his family & instead just ask me to stand on the side & watch him marry someone else- there's no way to change that or make him feel differently for me??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's impossible to tell the future. He probably will not man up, I think you said he does not even want sex, trying to make distance, even though he is attracted. You said you are doing some dating of other men, so let him know that, and that he needs to make a choice or loose you, and part of that would be a nice hug and kiss for the camera that gets posted to s web site that his folks will see...


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## learning112

I was trying to keep it secret from him that I'm now dating other people. But maybe I shouldn't. Why should I make him think that all I'm doing is waiting around for him pathetically... And what motivation would he ever have to change (although let's be honest, I doubt he will anyhow) if I'm always right there & he has no threat? No threat other than me telling him he sucks for treating me Asa backup girl hidden in the wings, that is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Westwind

Some day he will have to make a choice and it's better sooner than later. He's got to let his folks know about the American girlfriend. And, sooner will have to happen for him if he knows you are dating others.


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## BjornFree

Looks like he's not the only one with problems. You seem to be addicted to drama in your relationship with him and he knows just how to reel you in time and time again.


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## Caribbean Man

BjornFree said:


> Looks like he's not the only one with problems. You seem to be addicted to drama in your relationship with him and he knows just how to reel you in time and time again.


Yes^^^.

I have seen it many times.

He knows exactly which notes to tough and when. He knows exact how she would react.
He will get married to another woman , and OP here will forever be his mistress on the side, because she believes he was the perfect one for her and their relationship was something out of a romance novel.
He will keep stringing her along for the rest of her life.


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## learning112

So if he knows I'm dating other people and I refuse to talk to my ex further without a commitment, then he'll realize he no longer has that "hold" on me and he'll probably disappear out of my life forever.


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## EleGirl

Westwind said:


> My cousin married an Indian, this was about fifty years ago. She was the daughter of medical missionaries and knew the language and culture so his parents thought the marriage would work. They were correct, it did.


No one here saying that an marriage between an Indian man and an American woman cannot work. We are talking about the OP's relationship with this particular man who has no intent to marry her. Instead he has said that he will marry the wife his parents pick and he wants to keep her on the side. Sounds to me like he wants her for a mistress.


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> So if he knows I'm dating other people and I refuse to talk to my ex further without a commitment, then he'll realize he no longer has that "hold" on me and he'll probably disappear out of my life forever.


Is that a statement or a question?

If you want to be the mistress of a man married to someone else, continue your relationship with him.

If you are looking for a relationship that some day will lead to marriage (or at least a committed on) then tell him goodbye.

Forget about asking him for a commitment. He's already told you that he will not give you one. Remember that a commitment means that he will tell his parents about you. And he's not about to do that. He's already told you that.

Some men for move conservative cultures do not consider American women to be wife material because our society is very promiscuous. But that do enjoy having fun with American woman.. they believe it's fine to use American woman. But marrying them? Nope.


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## learning112

EleGirl said:


> Remember that a commitment means that he will tell his parents about you. And he's not about to do that. He's already told you that.


he's gone back and forth multiple times- but i guess that means i should accept the current "no"?


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## diwali123

Yes you should accept the current no. And possibly get yourself into counseling.


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## Westwind

Well, you don't know unless you ask him.


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## nirvana

Westwind said:


> My cousin married an Indian, this was about fifty years ago. She was the daughter of medical missionaries and knew the language and culture so his parents thought the marriage would work. They were correct, it did.


Her parents probably thought that they would be able to "harvest" a soul through marriage. Missionaries will go to any extent to "save" someone.


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## Westwind

nirvana said:


> Her parents probably thought that they would be able to "harvest" a soul through marriage. Missionaries will go to any extent to "save" someone.


My understanding is they were into saving physical lives rather than souls. His specialty was leprosy and at any rate her future husband's parents were for it. What happened was he and some of his friends had coffee with her several times and worked out a contract about the marriage, and then they got married without any western courtship.


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## turnera

Also, when one group is familiar with the other group, the prejudice melts away a bit.


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## Wiserforit

learning112 said:


> Cries a lot of tears over me, even in front of me, about how he just can't be with me because of his family. .


Of course. It's just so untoward, this manipulative victim-playing. So childish. 

You like this drama apparently.


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## Westwind

learning112 said:


> Can anyone explain why he says he keeps praying that eventually I'll want to be friends? How does he not see 1) that that's incredbily selfish, for me to stand by and listen to him talk about his WIFE someday, and 2) that if he really loved me like he kept claiming, he would sacrifice and be with me? He never even tried 1 time to tell his family!!! Even after his older brother did fight them


When a woman wants to be friends with a man, that signals the end of any love relationship, and if a man wants to be friends it also means that. You cannot have him in an intimate way if he says "I want to be friends". He's done, put a fork in him.


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## learning112

I'm so glad I said what I said to him. I'm not a second-best, hidden woman on the side. I'm not an American toy for him to play with. If he can't make a single sacrifice for me, then he doesn't deserve me in ANY capacity.

To Westwind: he told me he wanted to be "just friends" for a few months after our original breakup... then suddenly he couldn't help himself anymore and he was all over me, kissing me and calling me the love of his life.


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## manfromlamancha

OK so I am half Indian and maybe I can shed some light here. One of my best friends who is full Indian was in exactly the same situation with an English girl. Your ex sounds a lot like him. What it boils down to is this:
1. Many Indian males are driven by cultural and family customs etc
2. Many of them are also extremely immature when it comes to emotions and matters of the heart, especially when this involves a non-Indian
3. As a result they are completely genuine when they say that they are in love but due to emotional immaturity cannot commit to one course of action
4. Add to this the fact that their success in their career is often used to measure them back home, with family and friends and also by colleagues. The ups and downs in his career is just another factor that is adding to his emotional instability.

In the case of my friend, he did marry his girlfriend in the end but it took a long time to get there (something that you may not be prepared to do as it is a lot of "wasted time")

During their marriage his way of dealing with emotions continues to baffle her but she has learned to interpret what he says much better now (and it is down to interpretation something that the West gets completely wrong with regard to Indians - who by the way are different from Persians, Arabs - heck there are even regional differences from North to South India).

If you believe he loves you and you really do love him, you will need to accept his current emotional immaturity and work on that with him and also, much more difficult, learn to interpret what he says. If not, you should leave this relationship now. Else, he will always come after you (as I believe that he really is in love with you and as you said, it is not just about sex) - by the way I really think he would be devastated to know that you are dating others even though he told you that he should.

My 2 cents worth - hope it helps and good luck!


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## Starstarfish

> In the case of my friend, he did marry his girlfriend in the end but it took a long time to get there (something that you may not be prepared to do as it is a lot of "wasted time")


Okay, but the core issue here isn't just the fact it may take a while. It's "wasted time" because he's made it clear he plans on -marrying another woman- at some point. 

So - was your brother signed up for an arranged marriage while also dating his girlfriend? Did he hide her from all his friends and family? Or - did it just take him a long time to propose?


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## learning112

I really want to know the answers to those questions!!!


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## manfromlamancha

OK the person that I am talking about is not my brother - he is my friend. A very intelligent, educated person but emotionally immature. He did not tell his parents immediately and in fact his parents continued to search for prospective brides for him (as many Indian families do). Once he got to a position of some "stability" in his life/career, he felt that he was in a position to introduce his girlfriend to them and also the fact that he was considering marrying her. He got the usual warnings that this would probably not work out but he finally felt that he was in a position financially etc to stick to his decision and what he wanted, and more importantly deal with any backlash from friends and family back home. Make no mistake it took some doing but he finally got his parents to visit the UK and meet with his girlfriend who, as I say later became his wife. There was also a point in the relationship at that time that his gf was considering leaving him for someone else (another Indian would you believe) but was too much in love with him for the person that he was apart from his emotional immaturity. He did not propose so much as say when he was ready to be married (he told her right at the outset that he wanted to be married to her but was not ready at the time). It took 2 years after he completed his PhD (they met while he was still studying in the UK).


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## Caribbean Man

I fully agree that Western culture and Indian culture are completely different.
I live it,so I know.
The OP has to immerse herself into that culture to understand and so on.
I get that and agree.
But however,
What is her ex boyfriend doing to accommodate her Western culture and relationship expectations?

Intimate relationships , especially those that lead to marriage are supposed to be two way streets.
She cannot allow herself to become a doormat for him.


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## manfromlamancha

I agree with Caribbean Man in that OP should not become a doormat. This is why I said it might take a lot of work (and what might be seen as wasted time i.e. time that could be spent more enjoyably/productively in any other relationship) to get there. My advice would be to really get to know the culture and verify his emotional immaturity and decide wether she wants to deal with this. Then she should make him understand very clearly that she understands his world by replaying back to him what she understands, and then explain that there is a way forward with some compromises. These might be to help him progress with his career and stability and discuss how he could be more committed to the relationship without starting WW3 back home!


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## learning112

Thank you for that story! But I can't really tell my ex I'll "work with him," be patient, etc if he's telling me he is planning on marrying whomever his parents want even though he'll be miserable. That doesn't leave me much room to control the situation . What I can say is that I refuse to be strung along & treated as second best to another woman he marries; it's all or nothing, you know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nirvana

I think you should leave him and move on. You cannot be his second choice. He may be torn, but he has to commit.


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## manfromlamancha

In that case I would say that you should still explain to him that you now understand the challenges he faces (cultural, career v.s. being in love) but then go on to say that in the same way as you took the time to understand, he needs to do the same and that you cannot wait for an outcome that he has stated will never happen. I was originally trying to understand if there was enough character and intelligence there to work with (sorry to put it this rudely) but it seems like there isn't which means that even if it worked out now you might have problems later. Then you should leave him - I am sure that there are many other friends around so that you do not need him even as a friend.


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## learning112

Thanks so much for that amazing advice. I agree the best thing I can do is tell him I don't want to be treated like a hidden American 2nd best woman...Then stop talking to him totally and completely so I don't permit that to happen. And date other men even though you mentioned it will hurt him -- I gave him ample chance!


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## learning112

So after 2 months no contact, apparently he found out about my new boyfriend thru FB. (Yes, I fully moved on... Finally, right?!) So he text messages me to say: "I'm so happy from the bottom of my heart that u found someone who makes u happy." He then went on to tell me about some big career success he had recently. "I thought you'd be happy for me. Promise I won't bother u anymore. Take care."


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## turnera

Good. No reason to respond other than congratulations.

I have to say it, though: a boyfriend ALREADY?


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## nirvana

Yes, ignore him.
I don't think the guy was much into you in the first place. 
Maybe he was just stringing you to brag that he snagged a white woman.


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## Caribbean Man

nirvana said:


> Yes, ignore him.
> I don't think the guy was much into you in the first place.
> Maybe he was just stringing you to brag that he snagged a white woman.


:iagree:

He sounds like a real [email protected] to me.


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## learning112

After I found a guy very willing to say "no, I don't feel "casual" about you at all," I can't believe I ever let my ex string me along and play me for a fool.


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## turnera

How long were you single? Two weeks?


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## learning112

No. 8 months after my first breakup with my ex... and 2 full months after the second. I dated multiple other guys casually during the 2 months in between.


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## learning112

So what do I do? Right now I've gone over a week without replying to my ex, both because I don't want him to think he gets my emotional support/friendship without committing to me... and because I don't think it's fair to my new boyfriend.


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## RandomDude

IMO, cut contact and give your new man the attention he deserves


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## EleGirl

learning112 said:


> So what do I do? Right now I've gone over a week without replying to my ex, both because I don't want him to think he gets my emotional support/friendship without committing to me... and because I don't think it's fair to my new boyfriend.


Cut off all contact with your ex for yourself. What does this guy do for you that it worth your energy?

This current guy.. you have been dating him for 2 months. It's way too early to know if he's long term relationship material. 

But you will be with yourself for your entire life. Do not hand on to ex's . It's a waste of your time. There is a reason that you are not together. A good reason.


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## turnera

Would you like your bf talking to his old girlfriends?


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## nirvana

Yikes, are you still thinking about this Indian loser?? (I am Indian as well, so I can say that  ). Some Indian guys, just like some other non white guys (especially Muslims) try to get white woman involved with them as some form of bragging rights. Don't be part of this.

MOVE ON. DON'T THINK ABOUT HIM.

Looks like you have a new man, just give him all your attention and forget about this d-bag.


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## Memento

learning112 said:


> Originally he told me it could not happen in his family until we were very serious (right before getting engaged). Then he broke up with me saying his parents would never approve & he didn't want to hurt them. However, he became very depressed for months after he left me. Now he is asking if we can get back together because he's found he just can't be without me.
> 
> He said it's a huge step & right now is too soon, when he's only known me 6 months total and it'll be 3 more months before he knows where he'll be stationed for work for the next 2 years (we might be long distance for all that time!). But I want to decide how long I'm willing to wait for our relationship to progress to the next level... And if realistically he's ever planning on standing up to his parents for me anyhow!



If he is not willing to stand for you, he doesn't deserve you. Take it from me. I waited 7 years for a man. Biggest mistake and waste of time of my life.


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## Memento

PS- Indians are Caucasian. They exhibit the same features as Caucasians from Europe:
"-Little or no prognathism exhibited—an orthognathic profile, with minimal protrusion of the lower face.
-Retreating zygomatic bones (cheekbones), making the face look more "pointed".
-Narrow nasal aperture, with a tear-shaped nasal cavity."

Being Caucasian doesn't necessarily have to do with skin color. You are not in a mixed race relationship.


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## EleGirl

Memento said:


> PS- Indians are Caucasian. They exhibit the same features as Caucasians from Europe:
> "-Little or no prognathism exhibited—an orthognathic profile, with minimal protrusion of the lower face.
> -Retreating zygomatic bones (cheekbones), making the face look more "pointed".
> -Narrow nasal aperture, with a tear-shaped nasal cavity."
> 
> Being Caucasian doesn't necessarily have to do with skin color. You are not in a mixed race relationship.


A lot of people confuse race with culture. The issues she has are based on culture. 

You are right.


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## Memento

EleGirl said:


> A lot of people confuse race with culture. The issues she has are based on culture.
> 
> You are right.


Exactly!! 
Regardless, people tend to put way to much emphases on race, when they should be talking about culture.


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## Caribbean Man

Memento said:


> PS- Indians are Caucasian. They exhibit the same features as Caucasians from Europe:
> "-Little or no prognathism exhibited—an orthognathic profile, with minimal protrusion of the lower face.
> -Retreating zygomatic bones (cheekbones), making the face look more "pointed".
> -Narrow nasal aperture, with a tear-shaped nasal cavity."
> 
> Being Caucasian doesn't necessarily have to do with skin color. You are not in a mixed race relationship.


Race is actually a legal and social construct.
There is absolutely no scientific evidence for categorizing humanity into racial sets or subsets with any generalized genetic meaning.

What most people mean by default, when they allude to a race is actually ethnicity.


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## Memento

Caribbean Man said:


> Race is actually a legal and social construct.
> There is absolutely no scientific evidence for categorizing humanity into racial sets or subsets with any generalized genetic meaning.
> 
> What most people mean by default, when they allude to a race is actually ethnicity.


 

Ethnicity is a more accurate term, IMO. We are all part of the same race. We just have different cultures and ethnicities.


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## learning112

Thanks. I'm even more glad I didn't respond after reading your posts. I think he contacted me and bragged about his work accomplishments in this message to try to get his ego stroked by me... and who knows, maybe he even feels jealous cuz my new guy is in a similar field as him but way more successful (objectively). who knows


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