# Need advise and support



## DeliciousCookies (Oct 18, 2010)

My husband and I have been married for 7 years this past August, but we have been together for 12 years. Four years ago, we had an adorable little boy. We own our own business that was started 3 years ago and I am a stay at home mom.

We have had a hard couple of months that seemed like everything was just against us. My parents almost got a divorce, his brother almost got a divorce, we struggled on looking for a new house (bought one finally), currently remodeling the kitchen.

Two weeks ago, my husband said he is LOST and doesn't know what he wants in his life. He has no hobbies anymore. He feels like he just goes to work and comes home. He wants to go out and hang out with his friends and do what he wants. He said that he wants to be by himself for awhile to FIND himself.

He said that he doesn't find me attractive anymore, but he doesn't understand why because I am looking better than I have for a couple of years. (I gained a lot of weight after the pregnancy and I am now working out and losing weight.  ) Hearing him say that hurts so bad. He has also gained a lot of weight during the years. 

He also has lied to me. He went to a football game with his family about a month ago. He had to drop off his uncle in Tampa. I started getting worried because HOURS were passing by and he wasn't home yet. I called him and he told me he was really tired and decide to pull over at a store to wake up and fell asleep. Well, I told him that it sounded fishy (he is not a good lier). He told me that he went to a furniture store that I liked and that he was going to surprise me with a new dining room table, but he couldn't remember which one I liked. Well, during our talk this past two weeks, he told me he had lied to me about going to the furniture store. He went to a strip club. I normally don't care if he goes to them as long as he tells me. But he LIED to me. He said he felt guilty that he is having fantasies about other women and that he is not attracted to me anymore. He said joking to me that maybe I should let him try to get some from someone else, just so he could be shot down and then he might not feel this way anymore.

I don't agree with divorce, but I think that is what he wants. He wants his freedom. He said he will try to make our marriage work for our son. But it is killing me to be in a marriage where he doesn't want me. We have a hard time talking to each other right now. I just want to cry, but I have to be strong for my son. 

He told me Sunday night that he knows that he is ruining our marriage. He just doesn't know why. He has fought depression his whole life, but doesn't want to go to a doctor for it. He says he is very unhappy in life and our marriage is boring. I have been trying. Bought some sexy lingerie, toys and made a romantic fun evening. He said the intimacy part he liked, but most of it did nothing for him (the sex). 

He told me that he sees me as the mother to his son and thats about it. 

It just hurts so much that the man I love does love me anymore. 

I want to fix this!!! I need help!!!! 

Sorry so long...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Odds are, the way he is feeling now isn't new. He simply hit what I refer to as Threshold.

Basically sounds to me like you both stopped trying. You get caught up in the day to day routine of your life together and completely and utterly neglect _your marriage_.

Certainly sounds like he is under a tremendous amount of stress. We like to think that our relationship with our spouse would be an oasis of support and means of reducing that stress. If instead, the marriage is simply another stress contributor, then I hope you can see how this entire process becomes a vicious cycle.

You mentioned something telling. How was your sex life? Regardless of what people either say or think, one of the best barometers for the health of a marriage remains what is or isn't going on in the bedroom.

Your circumstances are by no means unique.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

You don't want to hear this, but for some reason he does not feel that you allow him the freedom to do what he wants. He wants to go to a strip club. Why does he have to lie? He wants to go out with his friends. Is there any reason he can't do that?

My advice to you is to google five love languages. See if you can identify yours, but more importantly see if you can identify his. If you can identify his, you can start speaking it to him, making deposits in his love bank. A change from you may be what is needed to turn the whole love ship around.

You are the only one who can be responsible for change. SOMEONE has to lead the change of dynamic. You can wait around to see if he will, but you have no control there. 

Best of luck to you..

PS. One thing that sticks out at me, if a kitchen remodel is stressing your marriage, it is a minor indicator to me that your priorities might be out of whack, Kitchen remodels are almost universally optional.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

You know what reminds me of a male in a marriage? A domesticated cat.

I look at a domesticated cat and they sit and stare out the window. . .dreaming of a time when they used to prowl, when they were more in touch with their base instinct. But they know they have it good in here. . .it's warm and they are fed. . .but only if I could go out and prowl about! The funny thing is, if the owners let the cat go out and prowl, they'd be amazed what little it took to make the cat happy.

Ah, your story made me think of a cat, not sure why.

I am sorry for your pain.

Related to that story, all your husband may need to do is "prowl" a bit. . .I don't know him but it's not like he probably needs to go bed other women to get his "prowling fix", thus his venture into the strip club. He felt the rush of freedom when he went into the strip club. 

If it's in your heart, I would consider having a talk where you can grant him some freedom to "prowl" - it may be as harmless as a hunting trip every 3 months.

He may be feeling domesticated right now and once he prowls a bit, he may warm back up to you.

I just went through this with my ex-gf. . .she was great. . .had me warm and well-fed but then I realized I was losing my freedom, having to be answerable to her, going from a wife to a gf. I freaked out and dropped her.

The funny thing was, like the cat, I didn't need much to make me happy. I told her I wanted freedom to go fish with my son if he called me up on a whim and free to cancel plans with her if he called up. It's ugly but that's the male thinking - freedom.

Owning a male is like owning a cat. . .we'll come to you for affection on our time. We'll set the parameters of the relationship. We want to do our own thing. We are not like dogs, constantly craving affection and companionship, even though we do love you.

I heard the best quote:

"Cat may very well be man's best friend but doesn't want to admit it."


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Looks as though I am alone here too but I think your husband is a putz who thinks there's something better out there when everything he desires is right in front of him. He's not a freaking cat or even a dog. He's a jerk. Place ground rules and if he doesn't follow them get him out. He will come back or he won't. 

Either way you'll have a chance at the life you deserve that he's screwing up.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Trenton,
Yup grass is greener. Sure it is. If you consider Astro Turf greener.**wink**


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Place ground rules and if he doesn't follow them get him out.


LOL.

TRENTON (to Felix): You understand me, mister! There ARE some groundrules around here, fella. No more carousing late at night and standing at the door deciding on whether you want to be in or out.

When I let you out, you are to go out. When I let you in, you are to come in!!!!

Furthermore, I don't want to hear any protests about bath. You go running into the den and behind the desk when the water is running, well, you can just stay there for all I care!!!

LOL.

Yeah, I would

A. Natter
B. Nag
C. Issue ultimatums.

Like owning a cat, your male will respond greatly to this kind of female input.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scanner,
While your analogy is entertaining, I think it is way off base and a tad insulting. So as a wife if my husband wants to go out and prowl I should just go along with it for fear that like a cat, he would act destructively and put up a fight? I agree with Trenton, if he wanted to do that, he is free to go. The door will not be open when he returns.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

No, I am suggesting take the leash off your cat.

He's not a dog.

And your ultimatum (the door won't be open when he gets back) actually gets at the heart of my first story. Put that ultimatum on your cat, and he indeed may capitulate, and sit by the window, knowing how well-fed and warm he is in there. . .indeed. . .you won on the moral point. . .but is that the point?

You want a well-fed and fat and sad cat?

Or do you want a happy cat?

Again, in the same breath, I am suggesting that it doesn't take much in the way of making your cat happy if you give him some prowling time.

I really doubt the average cat wants to go out and have wild orgies at the strip club.

Now. . .that being said, I re-read the first post and if he is battling depression, that's another animal altogether. He needs to come to realize that a marriage can't be 100% exciting from beginning to end (and whew! neither should it be. . .sometimes I want boring).

I agree with you on the "Grass is Greener" thing but perhaps you need to let him go about and about and prowl on the in the other pasture for him to come to realize it ain't any greener over there.

Again, I am not suggesting an open marriage and letting him go have an affair. . .but perhaps a gift of saying,

"I sense you need freedom. Other than giving you free reign to bang another woman, because I couldn't deal with that, is there any other way I could grant you some freedom?"

Either 

A. He'll tell her a way.

or

B. He'll tell her that he wants to be able to bang other women. If that's the case he needs to be informed. . .no matter how much he wants to, he just can't. That's marriage and grow up.


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## Xander (Oct 20, 2010)

The cat analogy is almost right on -- except that domesticated cats often like being domesticated. They just miss their days of freedom. Your husband might even be thankful to have his marriage (the mother of his son), but his problem is that he feels like his life doesn't belong to him anymore. 

Your long, stable marriage has taken the thrill of living away from your husband. Notice I didn't say *you* took away that thrill. Chances are that you're feeling it too. I.e., have you never wished for a new crush? That's ordinary, except that people don't know what to do about it.

Don't nag your husband or give him ultimatums. Denying him the strip clubs won't work one bit. This will only exacerbate the problem (that his life doesn't belong to him).

Kudos to you for trying to screw him out of his funk. Don't give up on that, but put it on pause.

If you want him to feel alive, then you need to make him feel like he's got something to chase. I recommend telling him that his funk is dragging you down. He *has* to take care of his Eeyore-style melancholy and fattening. Tell him to get a gym membership. 

At the same time, give him time alone to do guy stuff -- AND NO JUDGMENT. I don't are if he buys an xbox, goes to a strip club, buys season baseball tickets. As long as he doesn't have sex with anyone else, *give him free rein*. (BTW: studies show that when men are aroused by strange women, they are also more attracted to their wives/girlfriends/LTRs. Meaning: if he gets horny at a strip club, he'll come home lusting for you.)

*Do the same thing for yourself.* 

Eventually (you'll be surprised how fast), doing what he wants with his own time -- alone -- will grow old. And he'll begin trying to entice you out of your solitude. I.e., he'll court you.

That's when you break out the lingerie again and demand a good, solid pounding. Compliment his progress at the gym during the afterglow. If he feels like he's picked you up all over again, his passion and your marriage will be saved.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scanner,
I married a man, not a freaking cat. If he wants to act like a tom cat, then he shouldn't have asked me to marry him. 
Xander,
Yeah, every married woman dreams of her husband sporting wood for some other woman and then coming home to take care of it with their wives. Gosh, the romance! And then I should whisper sweet nothings into his ear after he just screwed me while thinking of others. Wow.

I am guessing that the same rules would apply to the wife then? She can go out at any time she wants, lie about her whereabouts, hide things, get hot and horny/wet for somebody else, come home and the husband should just be cool with that? No judgements, right? Would that be okay with either of you two?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Sergeant at Arms!

Please escort the lady out of the Men's Clubhouse :angryface:


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Brennan:

I am not sure how many times I have to say this - you are making this strip club thing about sex and I'd lay 10:1 odds on this that it is not about sex, that he is getting "wood" for another woman and then wanting to release in his wife, using her as a non-romantic cum-dump.

News flash - every time the wind blows I get wood.

You don't have to be so complimented or so insulted that I would get wood for another woman. That's called being a guy and having testosterone.

I am just saying she senses he needs freedom, that he is scratching at the door to get out.

Maybe it's as simple as wanting to take a crap in another place besides the kitty litter box.

All we are saying is, if he is scratching to get out of the door, maybe she should let him out and his "prowling" won't be as bad as you make it out to be.

All I wanted to do was going fishing with my son when he asks, the horrible Tom Cat I am.

But go ahead - natter, nag and issue ultimatums. Guys like that. Doesn't matter to me.

I don't have a cat in this fight.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Brennan/Trenton/Vthomeschoolmom:

BTW, I will be expecting a thanks from the Ladies who enter the Men's Clubhouse on how rare and what a privledge it is for women to partake in the innerworkings of the guy's circle, to peer in and gain insight into the simple psychology of men.

Guy's guys like BigBadWolf, Mem, and myself are not usually this generous.

In that, I am sure any of you will feel privledged to bring me and my friends some of those Delicious looking Cookies and a few beers for my male friends here. 

You can just leave it in the can of course. Meanwhile, you ladies can talk amongst yourself in the kitchen.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

**Quickly dawns St. Paulie Girl outfit and serves up beer to Scanner**
Scanner, I have told you often that I value your opinion. No need for hostility towards me. I was trying to convey a message that would it be okay for the woman in the relationship to prowl as well?
**Cookies will be done in 10 minutes. Another 10 to ice them, okay?**


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Brennan:

No hostility. . .not anymore anyway, since you put on the St. Paulie Girl outfit. 

Would it be okay for the woman prowl?

Well, why would a woman want to prowl? Woman are social pack animals, like dogs. . .they don't "prowl alone". . .they pack together.

You mean, if Delicious Cookies wants to go to NYC with the girls and take in a Broadway play for the weekend? What do you mean by prowl? 

Yes, if she wants to go to NYC with the girls and take in a play and even go to the Chippendales afterwards (with the girls for safety), then that is certainly acceptable "canine" behavior.

I do expect loyalty and companionship from that breed though.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scanner,
What I meant by prowl is what she was saying about her husband. He wants to test the waters sort of speak. See what's out there. Alot of the guys on here seemed to encourage this behavior so I was curious if the same would hold true for women. Would/should a husband be okay with his wife sneaking around and engaging in similar activities as this husband was? It just seems like really hurtful behavior. I know I would be hurt.

Also, Scanner, I am not talking about spending time with your son. Nothing and I mean nothing should come between that, ever. This guy is ignoring his wife in favor of something else and lying about it. The two are entirely different.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Scanner,
> While your analogy is entertaining, I think it is way off base and a tad insulting. So as a wife if my husband wants to go out and prowl I should just go along with it for fear that like a cat, he would act destructively and put up a fight? I agree with Trenton, if he wanted to do that, he is free to go. The door will not be open when he returns.


It depends. How often is wifey a controlling little nag that likes to micromanage their husband's every move. Been there. Had the unhappy time unravelling that mess.

Stupid analogy. But throwing down "ground rules" with no attempt at coming to understanding and consensus is a sure fire way to lose a marriage and wind up doomed to serial monogamy.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

School,
I hear you but this seems a bit like bait and switch. He married her and she married him under the assumption (I presume) that it is just the two of them. They fulfill each others needs, etc. 7 years later he comes home and says he is bored, angry, doesn't like her anymore, wants to see others, etc. That wasn't part of the original deal. I don't think it makes her controlling and a nag because she is unhappy and hurt by the new turn of events. For me, I would not be okay if my husband lied to me and went out to strip clubs. It wasn't okay with me when we were dating and it wouldn't be okay with me now. Should I be expected to come to some sort of understanding on this? It doesn't sound like this wife changed the rules, it sounds like he did.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Brennan, I hear you... BUT life does not operate in little snippet terms like we see on a board. We each see a different element, likely colored by what we, ourselves, experienced. 

When you get married, you have a certain set of expectations, nay ASSUMPTIONS. I guess they become assumptions when you expect them unchallenged and undiscussed.

I see it as JUST as likely that her assumptions of his time were different than his. She wants them to be together for this and this and this. He loves her. He wants her to be happy. Little by little there it goes. And he looks around and says WAIT I used to love to ... ski, skateboard, play pool. (Now as an aside, if he used to love to go to strip clubs, that is a different matter that should be addressed more directly that skiing as it has clear other implications. But she DID say she did not normally mind.)

Events don't turn on a dime. That is the major problem with being able to see how to solve marriage problems. Sometimes we don't even know how we got to where we are except that we were doing our best at the time. If my guess is right (who knows) then life would have been easier if 2 weeks in he had said hey wait, when did I sign up for never getting to see Fred anymore? Or go skiing? But who knows why he did not do that.

In either event, what does it GET her to ***** at him for what is currently going on? If I were a salesman, and the person I was trying to sell to got all my facts wrong, would it serve my cause any to tell him No you are all wrong. LISTEN TO ME. No. It sounds like a cold, calculating way to go about it. But it is close to reality. 

I strongly believe that the louder we tell our partners OUR needs when their needs feel AFU, the more they will ... pull whatever their favorite defense mechanisms are. The guy feels lost. If she tries to help un-lose him, two things can happen. He can be a jerk, and she has a rather definitive answer. Or he can begin the process of reciprocity.

Anyway it's a thought.

Also ... as a side point, looking at marriage as a serious of rules seems like a sure ride to divorce court.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Exactly what I said in another posting on another thread.

When one of the spouses changes the original deal, 1, 5, 10, 15 years into the marriage - what is the other spouse to do? Just accept it, have no opinions, not feel hurt, not question the change, etc.?

Come on - marriage involves two people - sometimes men seem to forget that and think it only involves "them" and what they need, want, etc., and their spouses and children just become the by-products of their need to "find and discover" themselves.

I find it amusing that when a married couple gets older, a lot of the men think that they are now "distinguished looking" and their wives are "just old." Better pull those rose-colored glasses off guys - you are "just old too!". 

I think it may be my time of the month...HA HA


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

School,
If he doesn't have any hobbies then that is his own fault, not hers. No man gives up hobbies just for the heck of it. If he did then he made the choice. It certainly sounds like he is depressed. He is overweight and gave up things he used to like. Now he is looking around the room and instead of looking in the mirror he is pointing fingers. Projecting if you will. "You" made me this way. It's a cop out. And now he is trying to punish her for it because he now believes it really is her fault. She didn't sign up for that and I don't think she should just lie down and take it.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Here is a question for you all. Have you never changed? You are exactly like you were when you were 25? Have the same needs? Have you never changed the "original deal?" Do you even remember exactly what your "original deal" was 15 years ago? I remember 15 years ago, the original deal was constant fighting, missionary sex when I felt guilty and all sorts of other fun stuff.

Thankfully our "original deal" was love and understanding. On BOTH sides, even when our feelings were hurt.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Of course people change. Positive change is good. If my husband came home however and said "oh by the way, I am totally not into you anymore, I don't like having sex with you, I would rather go see naked women at a strip bar and oh I am going to stay out and do whatever the hell I want so deal with it", THAT is a dealbreaker. Change is change. I have gotten older....change. His hair has thinned out a little...change. Flipping the entire marriage on it's head and pulling the rug out from under her isn't change however.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

So wait, brennan... He husband is depressed, lost and confused. And as a loving wife, she is supposed to give him a dope slap? Is that love? Is that her caring for him?

Now don't get me wrong, he can get his head out of his butt. But what is SHE to do? Nag him? How well do you think that works?

It is amazing how many folk on this board are more interested in right fighting than in building happy, supportive, constructive, loving marriages.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Incidentally, I am not saying he SHOULDN'T look in the mirror. You bet he should. But he is not the one posting here. So giving HIM advice is not super useful.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Did we read the same post? She wasn't nagging him at all! She is sad, scared and crying out for help. She stated repeatedly that she wants the marriage to work and that HE is the one who is bailing. She IS trying to build a better marriage. 
If he is depressed then he needs to get to a doctor. I think she is looking for ways to keep this together.
How is his action towards her supportive, constructive and loving? It goes both ways.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Yes it goes both ways. How does telling HER that help her decide what SHE can do? She is supposed to walk up to him and say "it goes both ways?" Is that going to work.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

School,
We can agree to disagree. We aren't seeing eye to eye on this but I do understand parts of what you are saying.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Okay, let's back-up:

A. I am not giving an internet diagnosis here.

B. That's why I decided to expound upon the parallels between domesticated cats and domesticated men.

C. As far as going to strip clubs, I get the whole idea, the one thing that pisses off women more than actually going to strip clubs (or looking at porn, whatever) is lying about it. The movie Sex, Lies and Videotapes really immortalized that in cinema form - the woman who was being cheated on could handle the infidelty but she felt sooooooooo disrespected being lied to.

I find the thinking rather bizarre, but then again, I'm a cat. Not a dog.

I can only explain male lying the way Chris Rock explained it:

Do women lie more or do men lie more? Answer: neither.

Men tell a lot of little lies: 

1. "I was out furniture shopping" (translation: I was at a strip club with Fred)
2. "I was held up at work" (translation: I stopped for beer at Moes)

Women tell very few big lies:

1. "It's your baby."

Chris Rock also went onto say that calling a man out for telling a small lie is like calling double dribble in a Special Olympics basketball game.

You just have to let some things slide.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scanner,
"He's got your hat!"

Yes, lying about it is what would send up the red flags. Why lie if there is nothing to hide?

And might I just add you just earned massive points with me. Chris Rock is by far my favorite comic of all time. Just about every situation in life can be summed up by some sort of Chris Rock standup.


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## Xander (Oct 20, 2010)

Brennan:

There are a lot of posts here and I haven't read them all, but you're obviously operating on the assumption that someone has proposed letting the husband in this situation go out and sleep around. The trouble is, I don't think anyone has proposed that.

Going to a strip club is not the same thing as sleeping with another woman. (Women often say it is. Until their SO's actually *do* sleep with another woman.)

The whole point is that this guy needs freedom to live his own life within the marriage. It sounds to most of the men here that the man's whole life has been swallowed by the marriage. 

That's toxic for any marriage. When faced with a choice between giving up a person's freedom (time alone, time to indulge pleasures that the other spouse doesn't enjoy, separate identity) or giving up the marriage, a person will probably give up the marriage.

The same goes for women, obviously. Is anybody surprised when a woman who spends her entire life raising kids and taking care of the house pursues an affair? 

There is no need for freedom and marriage to be mutually exclusive. 

The problem with your reactions is that they all involve reducing, rather than increasing, the husband's freedom. That's going to cause him to leave the marriage and faster.

To put it another way: if the marriage leaves this man no healthy ways of indulging his individual freedom, then he's going to *take* whatever freedoms he can grab on the sly. That's how you have affairs, secrecy (thus destroyed intimacy), etc.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> LOL.
> 
> TRENTON (to Felix): You understand me, mister! There ARE some groundrules around here, fella. No more carousing late at night and standing at the door deciding on whether you want to be in or out.
> 
> ...


At first I was questioning who the hell Felix was but then my slow self got it. Reading the rest and all I can say is I wouldn't give a crap about what my man wanted at this point hence I stopped nagging, nattering and laid out the truth; you want to be with me then this is how it is and if you don't want to be with me then farewell Felix! I was always a dog person anyway...loyal and adorable.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Here is a question for you all. Have you never changed? You are exactly like you were when you were 25? Have the same needs? Have you never changed the "original deal?" Do you even remember exactly what your "original deal" was 15 years ago? I remember 15 years ago, the original deal was constant fighting, missionary sex when I felt guilty and all sorts of other fun stuff.
> 
> Thankfully our "original deal" was love and understanding. On BOTH sides, even when our feelings were hurt.


I'm reading your posts and they make sense but in your post previous to this one you said that we should take into consideration that we only have one side to a double sided story. I agree but I think we have to give advice on the side we see as we can't see the other partner's side and anything we see is 100% imaginary.

I remember the original deal...young and pregnant and struggling but desperately in love and attracted to one another. The deal got a lot better but can always find things to complain about--duh. I think it's important that you grow together as a couple and always keep in mind the needs of each other. In this thread it's as if the husband only wants to address his needs.

We do all make judgments and give advice based upon our own personal experience which is part of the reason as to why I find these boards so interesting to read.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Scanner,
> "He's got your hat!"
> 
> Yes, lying about it is what would send up the red flags. Why lie if there is nothing to hide?


That is why I speculated on nagging. Now obviously he may be lying because he is a jerk. BUT he also might be lying because it is not safe to tell the truth at home. 

My husband used to tell white lies to me because I would lose my noodle all over him over the simplest things, and nag him to death about them.

Just a thought for the OP to consider.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Trenton said:


> I'm reading your posts and they make sense but in your post previous to this one you said that we should take into consideration that we only have one side to a double sided story.
> 
> I agree but I think we have to give advice on the side we see as we can't see the other partner's side and anything we see is 100% imaginary.


Well I see no problem with "have you considered it might be this?" Taking their side at face value can be helpful. But so can speculating on other possible points of view can as well.

I remember when I came to the boards for advice on my marriage. If people had taken my side of the story at face value, they would have concluded that my husband was an insensitive, selfish, jerk. That could not have been farther from the truth. Not until I accepted that we had different points of view *and that mine was not more inherently valuable* were we able to really come together and start working our issues.

You know what I mean?

The other thing to consider is that when one partner comes to the forum for advice, the only one whose actions can change are THEM. What good does it do to advice the poster on what the poster's partner can do?




> I remember the original deal...young and pregnant and struggling but desperately in love and attracted to one another. The deal got a lot better but can always find things to complain about--duh. I think it's important that you grow together as a couple and always keep in mind the needs of each other. In this thread it's as if the husband only wants to address his needs.


I just don't think we can conclude that. That is HER point of view.



> We do all make judgments and give advice based upon our own personal experience which is part of the reason as to why I find these boards so interesting to read.


Yup.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I know what you mean. It makes sense but it takes a whole lot more thinking!


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Trenton said:


> I know what you mean. It makes sense but it takes a whole lot more thinking!


Yah it does. But I think... why are all these good people unable to reconcile their difference?!? Do I think the flip side of every one of these marital problems has a jerk-off at home? Nope.

So I would say, yah marriage takes a LOT of thinking.


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## DeliciousCookies (Oct 18, 2010)

First off, I want to thank everyone for replying to my post. It is good to have different point of views.

I realize that you are only getting my point of view and that is hard to help with it. I just wanted to vent and to see if anyone else saw anything that I could do to help him or even change about me.

But I have been doing LOTS of thinking and soul searching. My husband and I have also been talking. He has told me he wants to work this out. We both agree that we have become ONE person in this marriage. We depend on each other for so much that we are scared of hurting the others feelings. So because of that we have both stop doing things in life that we enjoyed because either the other didn't enjoy doing it or we didn't want the other to feel left out. Well, we are both going to look for some hobby, sport, etc. that we can do separately and together. I understand that we need our own time away from each other and to be alone or out with the girls or guys.

His hobby has always been computer games and saltwater aquariums. Well, the game he wants to play wont come out till next year and the aquariums are now his life. He started a retail business about them, so he enjoys his job, but still has stress. So now he does know what to do. I have been exercising a lot lately and am really enjoying it. I know that this has helped me relieve stress and I am also looking better and feeling better about myself. I know that he also needs something to relieve stress with. He just needs to find something that he enjoys doing. 

I am also letting him know that I don't care if he wants to go hang out with his friends and drink or whatever. He tells me that he feels guilty for leaving me alone at home with the son while he goes out. I tell him that it doesn't bother me as long as once in awhile he includes me. But he doesn't. He either goes out or just stays home. I keep telling him, we should get a baby sitter and go out. I guess I should plan something for us to do. But I don't know his friends and I haven't even met them yet. (These are some new friends of his that he wants to do things with.) I want US to be more social. But he seems to want to do it without me. At least that is how I feel.

About the strip joint, I have never had a problem about them. It was the lying that bothered me. He told me he felt guilt for going, so that is why he lied. We have always talked about the both of us going to them. But he has never taken me to them. I think it would be fun and sexy.

Again sorry so long...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

DeliciousCookies said:


> We have always talked about the both of us going to them. But he has never taken me to them. I think it would be fun and sexy.
> 
> Again sorry so long...


Sounds like you just planned a date. Go for it.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

DeliciousCookies said:


> About the strip joint, I have never had a problem about them. It was the lying that bothered me. He told me he felt guilt for going, so that is why he lied. We have always talked about the both of us going to them. But he has never taken me to them. I think it would be fun and sexy.
> 
> Again sorry so long...


Be prepared. It is not as much fun for you! Anytime they gave either of us a lap dance (DH insisted I know what they do) they spent the whole time telling me why they were dancing; saving for a wedding, paying for college. I wasn't judging them for dancing! Why were they! 

Good luck. I hope all works out for you!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

My experience indicates there are actually 2 ways to address this sort of thing.

The first - and easiest - is based on a list. The list of emotional needs that get "neglected" in long term relationships.

(The author of this list is Willard Harley)

Guys want:

Sexual Fulfillment
A playmate - someone who shares their interest (ie: hunting or football)
Attractiveness
Domestic support (clean house and food)
Admiration (head pats)

The deposits referenced in the "Love Language" series are the same as these. If you want to know "what to do" for your man, take a look at yourself in these areas.

Did I used to do more things he liked to do?
Am I getting fatter?
Have I let the house go? How much fast food vs. dinner?
Do I admire him? Does he know it?
How are things in the bedroom?

If the sex thing doesn't work, you have 4 more areas on which to focus. Chances are, what he's missing is in there.


As for what women start to lose in long-term relationships..

1) Affection
2) Family Commitment
3) Honesty (strip club example)
4) Financial Security
5) Conversation

I cannot tell you how many women that have confessed attraction to me are looking for #5

My wife's #1 need is Family Commitment. She has gotten quite emotional over her desire for her children. I think BBWolf refers to this as a woman's "selfishness" for her kids. That's a tough word to use, but it can look that way.

A man who wants to woo women KNOWS these things while he's dating. But - as with the disappeairing sex and weight gain on the other side of the aisle - he lets them go when he's domesticated and comfortable.

Many couples simply need to bear down and focus on those two lists and "things get better". My first wife and I read the book (at least I did) and she confessed nearly 10 years later that I "must have read it better" than she did. But, she'd been "doing these things the past 6 months". This was after 20 years. I was past "done" at that point. I'd seen too many false starts.

There is more if you want. But, this is already pretty long.


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