# Can you divorce and be friends?



## ImperfectMomma

I am curious. How many of you, or people you know that are divorced, were able to have an amicable divorce? How often are people able to get divorced and still be kind to each other? My counselor and others are telling me that eventually the anger is going to hit and that I am not going to be able to be friends with him. I understand this but I don't. Can you explain? Oh, and we have 3 kids.


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## Jellybeans

I think an "amicable divorce" is a rarity. 

Some people are able to be friends with their exes after the divorce. My case was not one of them. Not that we are "un-friendly"--it's just that we will probably never be best friends.


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## Jane_Doe

My parents were much better as friends than as husband and wife. They would scream and fight together, then they split up about 12 or so years ago and they've been good friends ever since. At Christmas the whole family stays at my dad's, stepfather and all, and apart from the drinking its pretty drama-free. I'm sure they had to have their periods of anger/grief at first but they didn't show us kids that. I've heard them describe one another as best friends even.

So yes in my relatively unique experience it is possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shooboomafoo

I dont know...
I look in my kids eyes and see her attempting to get past the destruction my exwife caused by cheating, and moving a scumbag into the house we lived in as a family.

Nah, I dont want her friendship. I want to decorate my lodge with his scalp and hers.


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## Jayb

Used to think it possible, but then changed my mind. Anger and resentment played a part in the shift. Why would I want to be friends with someone like her?

Amicable? Absolutely. We have to put the children first. Aside from that, it's more of don't know, don't care.


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## dumpedandhappy

Good luck with that.
No matter how adult and reasonable one can be, the emotional disconnect required after divorce really is challenging for friendships.

I was friends with my EX for 25 years (including the marriage of course). 

I kind of think that I should never have married my friend!

At best, I think that an amicable relationship, one that is polite and considerate can be maintained. But friendships are defined by many means and in my books, my EX cannot qualify as a "true" friend at this point.


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## In_The_Wind

ImperfectMomma said:


> I am curious. How many of you, or people you know that are divorced, were able to have an amicable divorce? How often are people able to get divorced and still be kind to each other? My counselor and others are telling me that eventually the anger is going to hit and that I am not going to be able to be friends with him. I understand this but I don't. Can you explain? Oh, and we have 3 kids.


Only in the movies I think actually you can co-parent I dont believe people i know when they say ya we get along great and they just divorced except in cases of closet falling


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## Jellybeans

Shooboomafoo said:


> Nah, I dont want her friendship. I want to decorate my lodge with his scalp and hers.


:rofl: Love it.



Jayb said:


> Used to think it possible, but then changed my mind. Anger and *resentment *played a part in the shift.


I agree with this notion.



dumpedandhappy said:


> Good luck with that.
> No matter how adult and reasonable one can be, *the emotional disconnect required after divorce really is challenging for friendships.*


I agree 1000%


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## COguy

I think it depends on why you divorced.

Some people don't get along well and just decide they're better off apart then together. I think those people can be friends.

I'd be amicable with my stbxw if she was capable of it.

My thinking is, we have kids together, so we're always going to have to be in eachother's lives. We're never going to get back together, so I may as well make the best of it. She's a raging psycho though so I would never voluntarily spend additional time with her.

I think the challenge if you were friendly with an ex would be not being unhealthily close. Like remaining friends with an ex boyfriend or something. Jelly knows all about this


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## Dedicated2Her

Friends don't divorce friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dollystanford

we said we'd be friends in the early days - it's just what you say
when he comes round it's perfectly amicable and we chat and make small talk and the like
in fact the last time he came he was complaining about rowing with his new girlfriend and it hit me....'I'm not your 'friend' love, I'm not interested!'

so in reality you may be civil to each other but 'friends' - nah


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## Finchley Argon

I think it's certainly possible to remain friends.


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## Dedicated2Her

Finchley Argon said:


> I think it's certainly possible to remain friends.


It is possible to BECOME friends. You weren't truly friends if u divorced.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

COguy said:


> I think the challenge if you were friendly with an ex would be not being unhealthily close. Like remaining friends with an ex boyfriend or something. Jelly knows all about this


Oh boy, do I! To that whole mess I say: Hell to the No! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

Friends are supposed to trust each other, I can't really be friends with a chronic cheater because I know I can't trust them. I can be civil with them.

SO like COGuy pointed out it partly depends on the reason for divorce - if it was just due to mutual dissatisfaction with living together and there was no abuse, no cheating or no other kinds of betrayal of trust I could see former spouses remaining friends.

As for me, I am an amicable co-parent to my ex. When she first was telling me she wanted out of the marriage so she could find someone better she was already spouting about us acting like best friends and not lovers, and how much better it would be if we just were best friends - I looked at her like "what kind of drug are you on?".

We are not really enemies, nor friends in the least, but we are allies in raising our child together. That's all it is.


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## arbitrator

My STBXW had told mutual friends something to the effect of, " I just wish he'd get over himself and let's remain friends."

And that's being said when she was having dual 18 month long EA's/PA's with two other out-of-town men from her past and then remaining coy and secretive about it to me as well as to all of our friends. Then she came home from her travels to see them and slept with me to evade suspicion. And even to this very day, she has absolutely no idea that I even know a single thing about it.

Because of her actions/history of gross deception and adultery, I could never subject myself as ever entering her "friend zone!" I'd just much rather remember her as "someone that I once knew!"


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## unbelievable

I'm amicable with my exes. I'm not inviting them over to play Twister but neither am I nasty to them. If someone can piss you off, they have power over you. I lost enough of my peace while married to them. I'm courteous, polite, and gracious when we have to share grid coordinates but I don't go out of my way to socialize with them.


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## southbound

Dedicated2Her said:


> Friends don't divorce friends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. I've heard people say they are friends, but if you are friends, then why get divorced? I've never understood this concept. Being "civil" is certainly possible if kids are involved, but friends seems a bit much to me. Why would i want to be friends with someone who thought little enough of me to get divorced?


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## DavidWYoung

It would depend on the reason for the end of the marriage. Sleeping with everyone on base and spending all of your money while you are in Iraq, maybe I could still be friends with you. David


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## NickCampbell

southbound said:


> I agree. I've heard people say they are friends, but if you are friends, then why get divorced? I've never understood this concept. Being "civil" is certainly possible if kids are involved, but friends seems a bit much to me. Why would i want to be friends with someone who thought little enough of me to get divorced?


Because there's more to marriage than a friendship? 

My exwife is good enough to consider a friend, but as the person I want to raise a family and grow old with - no. 

She's feels the same towards me, as we've grown up from the teens we were when we started, and learned there are better matches for us. 

However, I suspect eventually the friendship will diminish as we move on and give that time to our partners..


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## Dedicated2Her

NickCampbell said:


> Because there's more to marriage than a friendship?
> 
> My exwife is good enough to consider a friend, but as the person I want to raise a family and grow old with - no.
> 
> She's feels the same towards me, as we've grown up from the teens we were when we started, and learned there are better matches for us.
> 
> However, I suspect eventually the friendship will diminish as we move on and give that time to our partners..


Amd then as you move throught time in the next relationship you will once again reach this point. There must be a better match, when the truth lies within.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *LittleDeer*

I don't think it's a good idea, nor do I believe it's healthy.

I do think you can be friendly just not friends.


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## arbitrator

*LittleDeer* said:


> I don't think it's a good idea, nor do I believe it's healthy.
> 
> I do think you can be friendly just not friends.



In my case, I would probably choose to be as non-communicative with X as earthly possible. I would definitely not seek to attend any social situations where she was going to be present.

But during any of those "awkward" moments of being unexpectedly subjected to be in her presence where she would be in a position to approach me, then I would treat her as cordially as I know how, but probably no different than I would any person that I had absolutely no interest in meeting or knowing. 

Let's just say that I would find it most difficult to ever seek her out again of my own accord!


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## abandonmentissues

Maybe if the people were strictly platonic friends that accidentely had a drunk shotgun wedding in Vegas... So they laugh, shrug their shoulders and say "oopsie" and divorce, remaining friends.

But that's it. Other than that, there is no such thing as an amicable divorce in my eyes. Maybe there is a point afterwards that you might feel that you don't want to rip their trachea out. Maybe.


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## Joanie

My ex and I are friends and really do care about each other. Actually, two weeks ago he stopped by my house with flowers and said he just wanted me to know how grateful he was that we remained friendly and in contact over the past 11 years since we split. We had three kids together and he is a great guy. We just didn't "fit" well together as a couple, but as friends we are great!
We have both moved on and are both in relationships. My ex and my mate are friendly and have gone golfing together many times. I joke with my mate that if he and I ever split I get my ex husband in the divorce! LOL I know we are rare but I am thankful for what we have.


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## spitfire008

arbitrator said:


> In my case, I would probably choose to be as non-communicative with X as earthly possible. I would definitely not seek to attend any social situations where her she was going to be present.
> 
> But during any of those "awkward" moments of being unexpectedly subjected to being in her presence where she approached me, then I would treat her as cordially as I know how, but probably no different than I would any person that I had absolutely no interest in meeting or knowing.
> 
> Let's just say that I would find it most difficult to ever seek her out again of my own accord!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spitfire008

Hear hear I agree..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spitfire008

Joanie said:


> My ex and I are friends and really do care about each other. Actually, two weeks ago he stopped by my house with flowers and said he just wanted me to know how grateful he was that we remained friendly and in contact over the past 11 years since we split. We had three kids together and he is a great guy. We just didn't "fit" well together as a couple, but as friends we are great!
> We have both moved on and are both in relationships. My ex and my mate are friendly and have gone golfing together many times. I joke with my mate that if he and I ever split I get my ex husband in the divorce! LOL I know we are rare but I am thankful for what we have.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ImperfectMomma

I guess I am just wondering because we have always been best friends. I wouldn't say that is true now (he cheated on me and I am trying to get him to move out so we can officially start a seperation) but we do get along very well which is still kinda weird I guess. I am just wondering how long we will be able to get along so well or, what will be the thing that stops it? I hate this.


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## Dedicated2Her

ImperfectMomma said:


> I guess I am just wondering because we have always been best friends. I wouldn't say that is true now (he cheated on me and I am trying to get him to move out so we can officially start a seperation) but we do get along very well which is still kinda weird I guess. I am just wondering how long we will be able to get along so well or, what will be the thing that stops it? I hate this.


We got along too until I moved out. Then, I realized the hell I'd lived in and that I was actually happier without her in my life. Amazing what some perspective does for u.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> Friends don't divorce friends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes friends can divorce friends.

With ex and I our marriage had come to it's natural end. We had become "just friends" and we not lovers for many years. We were together for 17 years with a couple of kids.

The first 12 months post separation were terrible, we went through the anger, guilt and mourning the loss of our marriage. Now a couple of years down the track we are friends again. I let go of my anger towards him.

We both care about each others happiness and co parent exceptionally well. We did not need to engage lawyers and sorted out our child and financial situations between the two of us.
We had no adultery, abuse, gambling etc issues but our marriage became loveless and sexless. We grew apart as a couple but still maintained a reasonable life together. So now that we are past the divorce we are friends again.

We celebrate birthdays, Christmas and other events together. We still see each others families and have common friends.

Both of us have re partnered but are yet to meet the respective partners. That will happen in the next few months I think.

I actually value his friendship, I would not put his needs before mine or my current partners but I see that being amicable with him helps my life to be more balanced and happy.


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## Dedicated2Her

Holland said:


> Yes friends can divorce friends.
> 
> With ex and I our marriage had come to it's natural end. We had become "just friends" and we not lovers for many years. We were together for 17 years with a couple of kids.
> 
> The first 12 months post separation were terrible, we went through the anger, guilt and mourning the loss of our marriage. Now a couple of years down the track we are friends again. I let go of my anger towards him.
> 
> We both care about each others happiness and co parent exceptionally well. We did not need to engage lawyers and sorted out our child and financial situations between the two of us.
> We had no adultery, abuse, gambling etc issues but our marriage became loveless and sexless. We grew apart as a couple but still maintained a reasonable life together. So now that we are past the divorce we are friends again.
> 
> We celebrate birthdays, Christmas and other events together. We still see each others families and have common friends.
> 
> Both of us have re partnered but are yet to meet the respective partners. That will happen in the next few months I think.
> 
> I actually value his friendship, I would not put his needs before mine or my current partners but I see that being amicable with him helps my life to be more balanced and happy.



Look at your last couple of sentences. You aren't friends. Lol. My ex and I are the same way. Amicable divorce. Love is a choice. You decide to do it. If you decide to not love someone in a marriage, you aren't friends. Sorry. I don't really know what kind of friends you have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> Look at your last couple of sentences. You aren't friends. Lol. My ex and I are the same way. Amicable divorce. Love is a choice. You decide to do it. If you decide to not love someone in a marriage, you aren't friends. Sorry. I don't really know what kind of friends you have.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What part of my last few sentences says we are not friends? Sorry but you don't know me or my ex, yes we are friends. We call on each other for help. we do coffees, we go on outings with our children.
We may not have intimate discussions about life but we do talk about our lives and new loves.

Just because I would not put his needs before mine or my partners in no way says my ex and I are not friends. It means I have a grip on the reality of our relationship.


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## WomanScorned

Not possible for me. Someday maybe I will get over it, but today's not the day.


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## arbitrator

Amicable divorces. I can and heartily accept that explanation. 

But with extremely rare occurance does that ever come to fruition if either of the partners has been unfaithful to the other in grossly perpetrating infidelity and mistrust!


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## stillhoping

My friends are people I can count on, for loving support, to be there when I need them to recognize when I need help. Friends are there when you are celebrating special events in your life. Friends tell you what they are thinking, give their time freely. My ExH rarely did any of those things when we were married and I certainly wouldn't expect him to do any of those now that we are divorced. HE is the father of my children, I will always wish him well but I will never be calling him for coffee or dinner, I will not invite him to share my celebrations and I will never call him when I need support. I have many friends in my life, don't and won't consider him my friend


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## Dedicated2Her

Holland said:


> What part of my last few sentences says we are not friends? Sorry but you don't know me or my ex, yes we are friends. We call on each other for help. we do coffees, we go on outings with our children.
> We may not have intimate discussions about life but we do talk about our lives and new loves.
> 
> Just because I would not put his needs before mine or my partners in no way says my ex and I are not friends. It means I have a grip on the reality of our relationship.


There's a ton between the lines here. Yes, in order to have the relationship that you are describing one of the ppl has to be beyond broken and not whole. As his friend, you should cut off "friendly" contact so he can learn why he became unattractive as a mate. That's what friends do. Your ex is screwed and he doesn't even know it.

It's amazing how ppl come here and say, "But we are different.". No, you're not. Humans are humans and your husband is a really "nice guy". Yes, I can see that from TWO POSTS. He hasn't even gotten help for it yet. He is doomed to repeat it. His next love will lose attraction for him over time because of this, and you claim to be his friend!!!!! He needs help to fix this.

And you were married for 17 years into what developed into a loveless and sexless relationship------you were not friends. You may have become friends later, but you were NOT at the time of divorce. PERIOD. And I put my friends needs above mine all the time. Like I said, I don't know what kind of friends you have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> There's a ton between the lines here. Yes, in order to have the relationship that you are describing one of the ppl has to be beyond broken and not whole. As his friend, you should cut off "friendly" contact so he can learn why he became unattractive as a mate. That's what friends do. Your ex is screwed and he doesn't even know it.
> 
> It's amazing how ppl come here and say, "But we are different.". No, you're not. Humans are humans and your husband is a really "nice guy". Yes, I can see that from TWO POSTS. He hasn't even gotten help for it yet. He is doomed to repeat it. His next love will lose attraction for him over time because of this, and you claim to be his friend!!!!! He needs help to fix this.
> 
> And you were married for 17 years into what developed into a loveless and sexless relationship------you were not friends. You may have become friends later, but you were NOT at the time of divorce. PERIOD. And I put my friends needs above mine all the time. Like I said, I don't know what kind of friends you have.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You really do not know what you are talking about here. Maybe you are not capable but that does not mean that people cannot "divorce and be friends". 
The reason we did divorce was because we were friends, no longer lovers, simple. Yes as I said in my first post very clearly was that we went through a stage of anger, guilt etc but now we are back to being friends. We genuinely care about each other but we don't want to be married to each other. We have however agreed that if we are both single in our old age we will travel together.

I did not say we are best friends as we once were, I said we are friends and YES we are regardless of what you think is between the lines.

I also think that people that always putting friends needs in front of your own are showing signs of weakness and co dependency. I have many very good friends, some I have had for over 35 years, generally the people who's needs come before mine (but not always) are my children. I will help my friends and family where possible as they do for me, I have many exceptional friendships, I think it is extremely rude and ignorant of you to suggest otherwise.

When I say I don't put my ex's needs before my own or my partners it is in regard to child sharing arrangements. We have a very amicable situation and swap days where needed but if for eg I had an event planned with my partner then I would not swap that day with my ex. It would be weak to do so.


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## ScarletBegonias

ImperfectMomma said:


> I am curious. How many of you, or people you know that are divorced, were able to have an amicable divorce? How often are people able to get divorced and still be kind to each other? My counselor and others are telling me that eventually the anger is going to hit and that I am not going to be able to be friends with him. I understand this but I don't. Can you explain? Oh, and we have 3 kids.


We are coworkers,we don't work closely together but just enough that if we weren't civil it would be a huge clusterf*ck of horror.

We're not friends though.We don't see each other or speak to each other outside of work. The anger DOES hit eventually.We hit our boiling point and thought one of us would have to quit and work somewhere else.But we got over it.


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## abandonmentissues

Dictionary definition of the word "friend": 
somebody emotionally close: somebody who trusts and is fond of another


Seems like the complete opposite of how I think of my stbxh.

Of course people can have different ideas of what a friend is, I guess.


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## Jellybeans

I remember distinctly my exH saying (when we were discussing divorce/separating), "But we'll always be friends. I just can't imagine us not being close," and I told him "But we wee never friends before we started going together." And it's true. We were not friends before so I knew we wouldn't be "friends" after.

That comment someone said about the "emotional disconnect" that is required for a divorce--was so spot on.


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## Dedicated2Her

> You really do not know what you are talking about here. Maybe you are not capable but that does not mean that people cannot "divorce and be friends".
> The reason we did divorce was because we were friends, no longer lovers, simple. Yes as I said in my first post very clearly was that we went through a stage of anger, guilt etc but now we are back to being friends. We genuinely care about each other but we don't want to be married to each other. We have however agreed that if we are both single in our old age we will travel together.
> 
> I did not say we are best friends as we once were, I said we are friends and YES we are regardless of what you think is between the lines.
> 
> I also think that people that always putting friends needs in front of your own are showing signs of weakness and co dependency. I have many very good friends, some I have had for over 35 years, generally the people who's needs come before mine (but not always) are my children. I will help my friends and family where possible as they do for me, I have many exceptional friendships, I think it is extremely rude and ignorant of you to suggest otherwise.
> 
> When I say I don't put my ex's needs before my own or my partners it is in regard to child sharing arrangements. We have a very amicable situation and swap days where needed but if for eg I had an event planned with my partner then I would not swap that day with my ex. It would be weak to do so.


I have a very good idea of what I'm talking about. I have seen situations like yours. 90% of the time one result happens........they get remarried later in life. That is not "friends". The other 10% both people live with regret later on as they discover they have the same issues with their new partners. Heck, they will even divorce the new partner and go back if they have the ability to let go of their pride. Oh yes, pride. You think putting others needs above your own is weakness? Try pride. It will crush you. Good luck. I sincerely hope you stop looking at your ex as plan B one day.

Putting a friends needs above your own in certain senarios is not codependency or weakness if they also do the same for you. It's when it is unbalanced..........

Just a thought, if you reacted to your ex the way you are reacting to me because I have a difference of opinion because of what I've seen through couple after couple after couple after couple, and he is a "nice guy", it is no wonder you guys had the loveless/sexless cycle. The truth stings all of us at first......if we have true Godly sorrow, the truth sets us free, and we can live a life free of regret. The truth is...you subcontiously view your ex as plan B. He enables that thought process.


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## NotSoSureYet

ImperfectMomma said:


> I am curious. How many of you, or people you know that are divorced, were able to have an amicable divorce? How often are people able to get divorced and still be kind to each other? My counselor and others are telling me that eventually the anger is going to hit and that I am not going to be able to be friends with him. I understand this but I don't. Can you explain? Oh, and we have 3 kids.



My exH and I had a pretty amicable divorce. 1 child. No lawyers. Just us and a judge. Now, don't get me wrong, there has been plenty of anger, resentment, hatred, etc throughout the past year and a half. But I think we are finally getting to where we can actually talk and be "friends" which is something that we never were before. We have both began dating other people.


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## cloudwithleggs

My other ex partner we weren't married but had a long time relationship, we are still friends, he will help me out and do things for me, i still see him most days, he never had a sex drive that is why i left him, he has never had another girlfriend, strange but true.


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## dumpedandhappy

I ruined a perfectly good Friendship by marrying.

Friends don't turn their back on you, ever. We both did that. We both recognize it. 

Amicable yes, can we laugh, talk, agree...yes. Is she my friend...nope. She can't earn that distinction becasue an EX can never be a true friend. Definitions are important.

You have to be pretty desperate or weak ( maybe from a very small town...) to have to have an EX as a so-called "friend". 

With your head in the sand..your ass is showing!


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> *I have a very good idea of what I'm talking about. * I have seen situations like yours. 90% of the time one result happens........they get remarried later in life. That is not "friends". The other 10% both people live with regret later on as they discover they have the same issues with their new partners. Heck, they will even divorce the new partner and go back if they have the ability to let go of their pride. Oh yes, pride. You think putting others needs above your own is weakness? Try pride. It will crush you. Good luck. I sincerely hope you stop looking at your ex as plan B one day.
> 
> Putting a friends needs above your own in certain senarios is not codependency or weakness if they also do the same for you. It's when it is unbalanced..........
> 
> Just a thought, if you reacted to your ex the way you are reacting to me because I have a difference of opinion because of what I've seen through couple after couple after couple after couple, and he is a "nice guy", it is no wonder you guys had the loveless/sexless cycle. The truth stings all of us at first......if we have true Godly sorrow, the truth sets us free, and we can live a life free of regret. *The truth is...you subcontiously view your ex as plan B. He enables that thought process*.


No really you have no idea what you are talking about in regard to my life. You may well think you do but you don't and it is clear by your comments here.

I get it that most people cannot comprehend it is possible that 2 people that were once married can remain friends without it being a plan B. Well ex and I are proof that it is possible. If you cannot get your head around it then perhaps you are projecting some of your own negative experiences.
We have made a clear choice to let it all go, to live and let live, to co parent and to remain friends.

My friendships are solid, loving and mutual, I am not going to defend my friendships any further, you simply want to argue any point I make because you are not a communicator or a listener.

Yes OP some people can divorce and be friends, ex and I are an example of 2 people that are doing just that.


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## Dedicated2Her

> No really you have no idea what you are talking about in regard to my life. You may well think you do but you don't and it is clear by your comments here.
> 
> I get it that most people cannot comprehend it is possible that 2 people that were once married can remain friends without it being a plan B. Well ex and I are proof that it is possible. If you cannot get your head around it then perhaps you are projecting some of your own negative experiences.
> We have made a clear choice to let it all go, to live and let live, to co parent and to remain friends.
> 
> My friendships are solid, loving and mutual, I am not going to defend my friendships any further, you simply want to argue any point I make because you are not a communicator or a listener.
> 
> Yes OP some people can divorce and be friends, ex and I are an example of 2 people that are doing just that.
> Today 11:16 AM


A lot of accusations there. You this, you that, because there is a disagreement of opinion. My opinions are based upon seeing a ton of experiences from others points of view. I am fortunate to have been in contact with hundreds of different situations because of the work I do outside of my normal occupation. 

I just encourage you to look outside the moment. I'm not saying your are not sincere in what you "feel". I'm just saying that your feelings change over time, and unfortunately, that is just a fact of life. You can choose to see it or not. You can call me whatever you want. 

And let me be clear, I love my ex wife. I want the absolute best for her. Does that mean I need to be her friend? Nope. There is nothing healthy about that. As far as projecting......I am eternally grateful for my divorce. It changed me completely, and I would not be the person I am today without it. It was a positive, however, there is no way my children need to see mommy and daddy in a platonic friendship. I would have to write a dang novel to go over all the adverse effects it has on everyone involved.

Be divorced from him for 20 years, not 2, and then come back to this subject.


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> A lot of accusations there. You this, you that, because there is a disagreement of opinion. My opinions are based upon seeing a ton of experiences from others points of view. I am fortunate to have been in contact with hundreds of different situations because of the work I do outside of my normal occupation.
> 
> I just encourage you to look outside the moment. I'm not saying your are not sincere in what you "feel". I'm just saying that your feelings change over time, and unfortunately, that is just a fact of life. You can choose to see it or not. You can call me whatever you want.
> 
> And let me be clear, I love my ex wife. I want the absolute best for her. Does that mean I need to be her friend? Nope. There is nothing healthy about that. As far as projecting......I am eternally grateful for my divorce. It changed me completely, and I would not be the person I am today without it. It was a positive, however, there is no way my children need to see mommy and daddy in a platonic friendship. I would have to write a dang novel to go over all the adverse effects it has on everyone involved.
> 
> Be divorced from him for 20 years, not 2, and then come back to this subject.


I get that you have a different POV and that is fine but you don't seem to get it that not everyone is the same or has the same POV as you. Just because you have been in contact with so many other couples does not mean that you know me, my ex or our situation and I will not take on board such a jaded POV. Ex and I are friends, no ifs or buts, we are friends, I hope we are always friends and I think we will be.
We both love our children and would not maintain a friendship that would hurt our children. We have had many discussions about our friendship and it's potential impact on the kids, we are mature enough to be able to discuss this with everyone's best interests at heart.

I am very happily divorced, I see it as a part of my life story. See we are very different I do not love my ex but I do want the best for him as he does for me. You may not need to be friends with your ex but don't project that onto other people, open your mind to other lifestyles.

I have spent many hours working on my life post divorce and am very able to have a healthy post divorce friendship with my ex. I know that we are not the norm but there is nothing between the lines, there is no plan B, we are just two people that care about each other but are no longer married.

If you cannot accept that it is not my problem. Ex and I are perhaps a new generation of divorced people, we are not jaded or walking around wounded, we have both learnt a lot from our past. We are human and will no doubt make mistakes in life moving forward but not that scared of life that we are staying stuck in some negative, blame shifting place. It is a concious decision to be whole again, to let go of past hurt and to be friends.


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## Dedicated2Her

> See we are very different I do not love my ex but I do want the best for him as he does for me.


So, you don't love your friend?


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## Dedicated2Her

I think I can see where the disconnect is between us and correct me if I am wrong.

Your position- love is a feeling, an emotion that one has for someone

My position- love is an action, it is something you do. after you do it, the emotion of closeness follows down the line if you continuously do the action. 

When, and let me say this, "when" you fall out of love in your next relationship, please come back and talk to us.


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> So, you don't love your friend?


Ok if you want semantics "I am not *in *love with my ex" and no I am not* in* love with any of my friends. I tend to work on a level of respect and caring when it comes to friends. I am *in* love with my SO and we are also friends.

I don't subscribe to the over analysing way of life, it is what it is with ex and I, we are friends, it is not that hard to understand.

And to head you off at the pass, yes I went through a stage of hating my ex and have no problem with that. If I still hated him we would not be friends. As I said I have done a lot of work, reflecting etc to be in this place and it sits very well with me. 

Life is full of many different friendships, siblings, extended family, soul mate types of friends, social friendships, school mum friends, acquaintances, online friends that I have never even met and so on. I do not put friendships into little boxes or expect all friendships to be the same, that would be fake to me and put expectations onto people that are unrealistic. So be it if you cannot have a friendship with your ex, I can and have and you know what, I actually value his friendship and his part in my life. He has maintained his friendships with my family, he goes to my parents for dinner with the kids even if I am not there. I think we are in a very emotionally healthy place. Sure it is not for everyone but for us it works and that is all that matters.

If in 20 years ex and I are no longer friends then so be it. If in 20 years I am no longer friends with my sister or my best friend then so be it.


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> I think I can see where the disconnect is between us and correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> Your position- love is a feeling, an emotion that one has for someone
> 
> My position- love is an action, it is something you do. after you do it, the emotion of closeness follows down the line if you continuously do the action.
> 
> *When, and let me say this, "when" you fall out of love in your next relationship, please come back and talk to us*.


Now that really is a very jaded way of thinking and a very condescending comment coming from a place of no understanding for anothers POV. If I fall out of love with my SO then I will deal with that at the time and will take the lessons onboard.


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## Dedicated2Her

Holland said:


> Now that really is a very jaded way of thinking and a very condescending comment coming from a place of no understanding for anothers POV. If I fall out of love with my SO then I will deal with that at the time and will take the lessons onboard.


Its a subject. I'm not coming from a view of emotion. You are on a message board championing to the OP how wonderful things have turned out and you don't even have vision on the regret part down the road. Yes, I will call someone out on that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> Its a subject. I'm not coming from a view of emotion. You are on a message board championing to the OP how wonderful things have turned out and you don't even have vision on the regret part down the road. Yes, I will call someone out on that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I am championing how wonderful things are with ex and I as I am really proud of both of us. We have come full circle and are friends (actually he is coming over tomorrow for coffee  )
A vision on the regret part down the track, um no the regret part has already happened and as adults we have dealt with it and will deal with it if things arise in the future. This is part of being an emotionally healthy person, willing to learn from past mistakes, forgive and move forward with everyone's best interests to the fore. Easy stuff to understand, not so easy for some people to do.

You have assumed from your first reply to my posts that you know all and that it is not possible for ex and I to be friends. Your comment that highlighted* "when*" I fall out of love with my SO as if it is a given, is condescending which comes from either an emotional place or a lack of understanding of others, and shows a sense of self importance.

You are wrong when it comes to my ex and I. This is the problem with over analysing and reading between the lines, you have read things in there that just aren't there.

I have said that I understand that many people *cannot *be friends with their ex, you seem to think that *no one can* be friends with their ex even when they say that they are :scratchhead:


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## 36Separated

Can you be friends during the divorce process? Even though 1, she hated me less than 1 month ago, 2, she is with another man, 3, I still love her????


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## arbitrator

36Separated said:


> Can you be friends during the divorce process? Even though 1, she hated me less than 1 month ago, 2, she is with another man, 3, I still love her????


Richly given those parameters, if you can still be a friend to her after all of that, then all that I can say is that you're a far better man than I am!


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## MSC71

The only way you can be friends (my opinion) is if the divorce was something that both people wanted. Usually its one person wanting a divorce and the other person hurt, which makes being friends almost impossible. The hurt person may say they want to be friends, but their intentions are usually hope of getting back together.


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## Holland

MSC71 said:


> The only way you can be friends (my opinion) is if the divorce was something that both people wanted. Usually its one person wanting a divorce and the other person hurt, which makes being friends almost impossible. The hurt person may say they want to be friends, but their intentions are usually hope of getting back together.


Yes, I agree with this. In my situation it was a mutual decision and we had no issues to deal with such as affairs etc


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## Dedicated2Her

> Your comment that highlighted "when" I fall out of love with my SO as if it is a given, is condescending which comes from either an emotional place or a lack of understanding of others, and shows a sense of self importance.


You're missing the point and making this personal. Good luck.


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## Ceegee

Sorry Holland. I respect your point of view and maybe even admire your friendship with you ex. But this is my first post on TAM and even I know you're not going to find many who agree with you.

I am about 6 weeks into my collaborative divorce. Could I be friends with my ex? Sure, if I married Kate Upton and my STBXW suffered some kind of rare transfiguring disease I'd love to have her over for dinner.


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## Holland

Ceegee said:


> Sorry Holland. I respect your point of view and maybe even admire your friendship with you ex. But this is my first post on TAM and even I know you're not going to find many who agree with you.
> 
> I am about 6 weeks into my collaborative divorce. Could I be friends with my ex? Sure, if I married Kate Upton and my STBXW suffered some kind of rare transfiguring disease I'd love to have her over for dinner.


Hi Ceegee, that is the point though of my responses to D2H, I am not expecting anyone to agree or disagree with my life choices. That is not what this is about. 

I fully understand that ex and I are unusual but what is ridiculous is when ppl like D2H categorically deny that ex and I are friends. 

D2H


> You're missing the point and making this personal. Good luck.


Firstly I don't operate on a level of luck when it comes to human relationships but thanks anyway.
Also when you said 


> When, and let me say this, "when" you fall out of love in your next relationship, please come back and talk to us.


 What part of that is not condescending? You are making an assumption that I will fall out of love with my partner. I could equally make the assumption that you will one day be friends with your ex


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## Jayb

Holland said:


> Hi Ceegee, that is the point though of my responses to D2H, I am not expecting anyone to agree or disagree with my life choices. That is not what this is about.
> 
> I fully understand that ex and I are unusual but what is ridiculous is when ppl like D2H categorically deny that ex and I are friends.
> 
> D2H
> 
> 
> Firstly I don't operate on a level of luck when it comes to human relationships but thanks anyway.
> Also when you said
> What part of that is not condescending? You are making an assumption that I will fall out of love with my partner. I could equally make the assumption that you will one day be friends with your ex


Hi Holland.

I have been reading your back and forth. Don't mean to pile on, but, from my point of view and understanding of definitions, I cannot see any kind of genuine friendship between you and your ex.

Maybe I'm naive, missing something, narrow-minded, jaded, etc. We all bring that to the table. I tried to see your view point. Just doesn't compute.

That's ok. I hope you and your ex are happy and wish nothing but the best for the both of you. Life's too short.


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## mrstj4sho88

*I will give yall an honest answer IMHO no . Some just play nice for the kids,friends and other family members. *


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## Holland

Jayb said:


> Hi Holland.
> 
> I have been reading your back and forth. Don't mean to pile on, but, from my point of view and understanding of definitions, I cannot see any kind of genuine friendship between you and your ex.
> 
> Maybe I'm naive, missing something, narrow-minded, jaded, etc. We all bring that to the table. I tried to see your view point. Just doesn't compute.
> 
> That's ok. I hope you and your ex are happy and wish nothing but the best for the both of you. Life's too short.


Hi JayB that's OK this is a one dimensional form of communication. I really don't expect anyone to see or agree with my POV all I am saying is that it is close minded to think that no one can be friends with an ex. 

Ex and I are not the only ones that I know of. My dad is still friends with his ex (not my mum), they have dinners which also include his SO. I also have a few friends in similar situations. Admittedly I know more people that either hate or very much dislike their ex's.

If people come online and say they hate their husband, they are unhappy with life or any other negative thing they generally get support. I am really amazed that people cannot just take at face value if someone says they are friends with their ex. 

It speaks more about the disbelievers than those of us that do have friendships with the ex.


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## arbitrator

Ceegee said:


> Sorry Holland. I respect your point of view and maybe even admire your friendship with you ex. But this is my first post on TAM and even I know you're not going to find many who agree with you.
> 
> I am about 6 weeks into my collaborative divorce. Could I be friends with my ex? Sure, if I married Kate Upton and my STBXW suffered some kind of rare transfiguring disease I'd love to have her over for dinner.



And I could very well see that happening within the course of an amicable divorce. 

However, if your X committed adultery right under your nose, that you were proof-positive of, and they were furthermore deceptive/defensive about it to you, either while it was taking place or had even run its gamut, then I'd greatly wager that there would be absolutely no future dinner invitations extended, ever!


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## mrstj4sho88

Shooboomafoo said:


> I dont know...
> I look in my kids eyes and see her attempting to get past the destruction my exwife caused by cheating, and moving a scumbag into the house we lived in as a family.
> 
> Nah, I dont want her friendship. I want to decorate my lodge with his scalp and hers.


*I am so sorry that happened to you. *


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## Ceegee

arbitrator said:


> And I could very well see that happening within the course of an amicable divorce.
> 
> However, if your X committed adultery right under your nose, that you were proof-positive of, and they were furthermore deceptive/defensive about it to you, either while it was taking place or had even run its gamut, then I'd greatly wager that there would be absolutely no future dinner invitations extended, ever!


If my ex had committed adultery I would agree with you wholeheartedly. Though there was no affair, on either side, our divorce thus far has been nothing even resembling amicable. Acrimonious to be sure.

Still, with Kate Upton by my side I think I would be able to endure a couple of hours with anyone.:awink:


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## Dreald

For my STBXW -- NO!

Despite her calling the cops and lying to them about me threatening her, despite cleaning up the place after moving out all my stuff, despite her stealing all of the $5,000 in our joint checking account and not returning half of it, despite her renigging on paying 1/2 the taxes, despite her refusing to pay for our joint credit card expenses, despite her stating that *I* should be the one to pay for the divorce, etc....

Despite all that, she's the one who was 'wronged'. No matter what I did during our short marriage together did I do it correctly (i.e. "her" way). 

No, we will not be friends. It cost me over $50k for 14 months marriage and she still acts like it was her who got raked over the coals. So glad I found out who she was early on and didn't have kids together.


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## Ceegee

Dreald said:


> For my STBXW -- NO!
> 
> Despite her calling the cops and lying to them about me threatening her, despite cleaning up the place after moving out all my stuff, despite her stealing all of the $5,000 in our joint checking account and not returning half of it, despite her renigging on paying 1/2 the taxes, despite her refusing to pay for our joint credit card expenses, despite her stating that *I* should be the one to pay for the divorce, etc....
> 
> Despite all that, she's the one who was 'wronged'. No matter what I did during our short marriage together did I do it correctly (i.e. "her" way).
> 
> No, we will not be friends. It cost me over $50k for 14 months marriage and she still acts like it was her who got raked over the coals. So glad I found out who she was early on and didn't have kids together.


Sorry to hear that Dreald.


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## happytogether

My first divorce ended poorly, he turned out to be a indecent human being. Fortunately, we had no children and I never had to speak to him again.

My second divorce was not horrible. We had a child, so we had to communicate. I would not say we are "friends", but we never fought after the divorce. We were always civil. 

I don't think it is truly possible to be real "friends" after a divorce. Friends hang out and do things together. You divorce people for a reason.

That being said, I have know people who have re-married after a divorce, so that goes to show what I know!


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## Garry2012

I am in the primary stages of a divorce. We have already hated each other and been friendly. I dont know how we will be. I like to think we can be friends, she wants to and and has said i am one of her best. Yet, i am the one that struggles since she had the EA, and is in favor of divorcing. I have just moved to the "anger" stage of my grief process, but somehow, i think we will be friends someday.


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## arbitrator

I greatly feel like I can be civil with my STBXW, but given her covert infidelity and her rampant deception, coming to being "friends" again with her would probably be next to impossible, until such time that she eventually came clean and asked for forgiveness!

But as they largely say down here in Texas, "that ole dog just ain't gonna hunt!"


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## Garry2012

Yeah arbitrator, i get that. My STBXW at this point will not even admit the EA, or that is pushed me out of her life--but i think mostly because she is very hesitant i will use it against her in the D. I maintain she is in the fog, and will someday come out...admit what she did and be very sorry. I am a forgiving guy, i know im not perfect and we all make mistakes. I wont take her back, but i could be friends with her (not sure my future wife will have the same thought), at least enough to handle my kids and attend all the life events we have. Heck, she was sending me pics today from my daughters halloween party..and i chewed her azz out lastnight.


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## 36Separated

I cut ties with my wife after 4months of lies from her. She expects me be firneds with her whilst she is divorcing me and seeing anothr man.


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## arbitrator

Garry2012 said:


> Yeah arbitrator, i get that. My STBXW at this point will not even admit the EA, or that is pushed me out of her life--but i think mostly because she is very hesitant i will use it against her in the D. I maintain she is in the fog, and will someday come out...admit what she did and be very sorry. I am a forgiving guy, i know im not perfect and we all make mistakes. I wont take her back, but i could be friends with her (not sure my future wife will have the same thought), at least enough to handle my kids and attend all the life events we have. Heck, she was sending me pics today from my daughters halloween party..and i chewed her azz out lastnight.


The only thing is that as soon as the ink is fully dried on the divorce decree, I plan on "going nuclear" by taking copies of STBXW's 18 month-long cell phone bill and calling/texting log that details her rampant number of calls/texts and travels to see both of her OM, and turning them over to select members of her/my family and mutual friends for their edification.

At least that should let them know that there is someone situated more closely in their midst that is far more responsible for the demise of our marriage!


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## NickCampbell

arbitrator said:


> The only thing is that as soon as the ink is fully dried on the divorce decree, I plan on "going nuclear" by taking copies of STBXW's 18 month-long cell phone bill and calling/texting log that details her rampant number of calls/texts and travels to see both of her OM, and turning them over to select members of her/my family and mutual friends for their edification.
> 
> At least that should let them know that there is someone situated more closely in their midst that is far more responsible for the demise of our marriage!


That sounds crazy and will make you look nuts. 

Better to move on...I don't think family generally care to participate in the game of who was to blame, like those inside the relationship. 

Better to just move on..


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## Garry2012

I would love to "rat" her out like that, but to what end? It will destroy her family, hurt my kids and for what? As far as my story, they will figure it out. I dont want to be friends with her, but i WILL have a lifetime of life events related to my kids that i will see her at....not to mention at least 13 years of joint custody to get through. Besides, I can use that as a potential motivator for YEARS....ie.."better do what i ask or i drive to your family house for a few hours of "story telling"".


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## arbitrator

NickCampbell said:


> That sounds crazy and will make you look nuts.
> 
> Better to move on...I don't think family generally care to participate in the game of who was to blame, like those inside the relationship.
> 
> Better to just move on..



And if I relent and let her take a walk on this, then STBXW's family and our friends will only have one version of the story~namely hers.

The family and friends have absolutely no knowledge of her trysts, more especially when they were going on while we were living together under the same roof, and continued even after our separation. The sad fact of the matter is that I had absolutely no discernible knowledge of them until some six months after she had filed the divorce decree.

An email sent by her to me from one of her many world travel locations asking for things to hopefully get better between us, then was followed up only minutes later by some five straight hours of cell-phone conversations back into the States to her OM.

And when she gets back home, the first call made was to OM for 30 minutes. Her call to me lasted only two.

I respectfully disagree with your stance, primarily because I strongly feel that her misdeeds and, more especially, her deception about it needs to be brought to light, but only after the divorce decree is finalized.


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## Memento

If there are children involved, you should maintain contact. Be friends!? Hell, no! What are you going to talk about? Reminisce about the past? How good it was till it went south? Bad idea.


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## Garry2012

Exactly. I have 3 kids 10 and under...so for THEIR sake, i want to be civil. Pretty sure having a good, friendly "man its great we divorced" relationship isnt going to happen. My next Gf or wife, im sure, would just be thrilled about my close relationship with my XW...not.

Arbitrator...I totally understand. I am there too...she will sell a bunch of crap to her family to make it seem like WE just didnt work as a couple. I have full confidence they will figure it out. In my case, we had a good relationship, better than most, for 12 years...so how can her family think we didnt work? 

It will work out eventually...I dont want to drop the bomb as it will REALLY ruin our relations (kid sharing etc). To me, its her family anyway...i so could rat her out and basically take them as my family as they would disown her...she has said as much. They know me, like me...and i will drop "clues" to make sure they understand it was not me that cheated, and that i did not want the divorce. I'll give them a and b...ill let them get to c.

Best of all, i am using the threat of a "full disclosure" to get the house, all the assets and minimal alimony. It will work to my advantage.


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## arbitrator

Memento said:


> If there are children involved, you should maintain contact. Be friends!? Hell, no! What are you going to talk about? Reminisce about the past? How good it was till it went south? Bad idea.


No children between us involved here as this was the second marriage for the both of us.


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## Memento

arbitrator said:


> No children between us involved here as this was the second marriage for the both of us.


Why would you want to maintain contact with your ex, then? Isnt the point of getting a divorce to separate permanently from that person? Why dwell on the past?


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## Memento

arbitrator said:


> The only thing is that as soon as the ink is fully dried on the divorce decree, I plan on "going nuclear" by taking copies of STBXW's 18 month-long cell phone bill and calling/texting log that details her rampant number of calls/texts and travels to see both of her OM, and turning them over to select members of her/my family and mutual friends for their edification.
> 
> At least that should let them know that there is someone situated more closely in their midst that is far more responsible for the demise of our marriage!


Do you honestly think that will give you the peace of mind you are looking for?
Don't get your hands dirty, let life do it for you. Life always evens the scores!


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## Garry2012

Im going to come face to face with this by thanksgiving. her story is so full of holes, they will be calling me on turkey day to get the real story as to why i am not there after 17 years....AND her birthday is the day after....

I will just tell them to talk to her....just the fact that i dont echo her comments will set up the suspicion that her story reaks.


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## arbitrator

Memento said:


> Why would you want to maintain contact with your ex, then? Isnt the point of getting a divorce to separate permanently from that person? Why dwell on the past?


In most respects, I had came to be even closer to her own family(mother, brother/sister-in-law, sister/brother-in-law, cousins) than she is. My attorney asked me to go "no contact" with members of her family until such time that the divorce was over. But both my attorney and my IC agree that I should readily disclose, but only after the finality of divorce. And from their perspective, I agree that those folks need to know the truth.

I did have one idea: Now what if I were to privately sit down with STBXW _sans_ the divorce finalization, give her a copy of my documentation of the evidence and tell her that certain unnamed members of her family are/will be in receipt of the same~ without ever giving it to them? In one respect, I can see her fastly panicking~ and yet in another, she probably wouldn't give two hoots in hell.

There is no doubt that she's a "Cake-Eater!" But all that I really want out of it is for her loved ones to see the icing smeared all over her face!


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## Garry2012

with no kids, i guess it is easier for you to do that. It would cause me FAR more effort/pain/discord down the road then the thrill of disclosure. And again, i really dont think i will have to say a word. Heck, all i have to say is "nope, there was no MC, and this is not what i wanted--go ask her what the story is".


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## Memento

arbitrator said:


> In most respects, I had came to be even closer to her own family(mother, brother/sister-in-law, sister/brother-in-law, cousins) than she is. My attorney asked me to go "no contact" with members of her family until such time that the divorce was over. But both my attorney and my IC agree that I should readily disclose, but only after the finality of divorce. And from their perspective, I agree that those folks need to know the truth.
> 
> I did have one idea: Now what if I were to privately sit down with STBXW _sans_ the divorce finalization, give her a copy of my documentation of the evidence and tell her that certain unnamed members of her family are/will be in receipt of the same~ without ever giving it to them? In one respect, I can see her fastly panicking~ and yet in another, she probably wouldn't give two hoots in hell.
> 
> There is no doubt that she's a "Cake-Eater!" But all that I really want out of it is for her loved ones to see the icing smeared all over her face!



Revenge is an empty contentment. After doing all that, you'll still be hurting. You will still be suffering. And it wont change a damn thing about the past.

Invest that time and thought that your are devoting to that, in yourself. In healing and getting back on your 2 feet. Let her go! Forget her!! She's someone else s problem now.


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## Garry2012

heck, since she will be in a one bedroom apartment, HER parents will stay with me when they come to visit....haha..


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## arbitrator

My STBXW is well-heeled financially and will stay in her mansion. I'm the one in the apartment and she's the one who is trying to get me to give her up to a quarter-mil as a monetary settlement, as my share, for the 7-1/2 to 8 years that we were married. 

But, according to my attorney, her pre-nup doesn't stipulate that, as it only keeps me from coming after her assets in a community property hearing.


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## Memento

arbitrator said:


> My STBXW is well-heeled financially and will stay in her mansion. I'm the one in the apartment and she's the one who is trying to get me to give her up to a quarter-mil as a monetary settlement, as my share, for the 7-1/2 to 8 years that we were married.
> 
> But, according to my attorney, her pre-nup doesn't stipulate that, as it only keeps me from coming after her assets in a community property hearing.


WTH, she cheated on you and she has the nerve to go after your money!? Arghh Shameless b*tch! If your lawyer thinks its ok, show the evidence you've gathered to her family, after the divorce is final.


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## arbitrator

Memento said:


> WTH, she cheated on you and she has the nerve to go after your money!? Arghh Shameless b*tch! If your lawyer thinks its ok, show the evidence you've gathered to her family, after the divorce is final.


That's the gameplan. Will also share it with our MC that we had at the time that still hasn't a clue about her activities. The MC is in her corner because she's had her since before we were ever married and pays her substantially well.

If and when you have the time, please try reading my posts at the link below, and tell me what you think. I feel that you'll find it rather eye opening!


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## Memento

arbitrator said:


> That's the gameplan. Will also share it with our MC that we had at the time that still hasn't a clue about her activities. The MC is in her corner because she's had her since before we were ever married and pays her substantially well.
> 
> If and when you have the time, please try reading my posts at the link below, and tell me what you think. I feel that you'll find it rather eye opening!



Someone I used to know, used to tell "God wants us to be good. Not gullible"! Very often, I found out that there's a very thin line between these 2 concepts, specially when it involves a loved one. I have been good and I have been gullible several times, but there is always one thing that I retain: I did my best, with the best intentions and I am not to blame for other peoples wrongdoings. I am not going to lie to you, sometimes, I wish I could inflict the same type of pain or more to those who did me wrong. But that would make me similar to them.

There is also a common aspect to all these stories, sooner or later, these people paid for their actions. Because, either someone did them the same or because life took away something precious from them. Either way, the scores always got even!

I have a tremendous distaste for revenge. However, your case is not about revenge, but of justice. I hope you have closure!

Stay strong and good luck!!


----------



## Anenome

Thank you, Holland, for trying to give (for whatever unfortunate reason) an unpopular answer to this poster's question. I'm disappointed by the attacking and invalidating unleashed upon you for simply stating your truth. I too believe that it is possible, albeit rare, to remain friends with an ex. I totally recognize how easily a friendship can deteriorate during proceedings, however I'm also smart enough to know that not every divorce follows the same path and everybody's experience is unique to their set of circumstances.


----------



## Holland

Thanks Anenome

I do understand that it is not the norm and that is OK. I once loved my ex with all my heart, I still have a place in my life and my heart for him as the great man that he is.

He is in no way my plan B, I find that an utterly disrespectful thing for a previous poster to have said. He is my friend and I am his. Not the same friends as we once were but friends nevertheless.


----------



## arbitrator

GinnyTonia said:


> I do see how we will become more and more disconnected as time goes on. I really don't want to be his friend in the sense that I don't want to confide in him and I don't want to hang out with him. Actually, I still do a little bit, but I'm trying to not want those things for my emotional health.
> 
> But I hope we will always remain friendly.


And that's all well and good and I heartily applaud you for it!

But did the break-up of your marriage deal with infidelity in any way, with the usual accompanying deception? If it did, then you are fastly the exception rather than the rule for most divorced couples!


----------



## Thundarr

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *I will give yall an honest answer IMHO no . Some just play nice for the kids,friends and other family members. *


I think this is true most of the time when it looks like friendship. I was civil and nice to my ex from day one and that was 20 years ago because we were still partners in raising our children and that's what was important to me. I don't know if she did or does confuse that for friendship, respect, forgiveness or whatever. It does not matter to me what she thinks but it certainly wasn't friendship or any of the above.


----------



## arbitrator

GinnyTonia said:


> Yes, there was infidelity and subsequent lying. Terrible stuff. We definitely went through a hateful period, but somehow, even though there's still resentment, we became (mostly) peaceful.
> 
> People have said that we're weird.
> 
> Oh, and Arb, one thing I'll miss about being married is our family vacations. We would go to Port A every year in October and we would often go through Gonzales. We stop sometimes and walk around, but unfortunately we would alway come the weekend after the festival.


You are truly the exception then and I salute you for it!

And those locations are ones that I'm greatly familiar with, as I seem to make that Southerly drive, more often than not, during the course of football season!


----------



## mrstj4sho88

*I think maybe the word friend is confusing some here. A friend IMHO is someone I trust and can count on. A friend does not hurt or lie to you. So saying that my answer would be no . Why would I be friends with someone that is my ex. You might be polite to them but not friends. *


----------



## 36Separated

My soon to be ex wife invited me round for tea again last night, and wants go out for a coffee today before we go to mediation - i think it is all a plan to keep me sweet to get more from mediation and to allow the divorce to go through easy


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## Garry2012

My wife is still in "the fog", so she doesn't understand why we can't just be thrilled that while she is having an EA, I cant embrace the joy of "our decision" to divorce. With three small kids, i will have to be civil for many years to maintain a good parenting relationship, but i consider a friend to be someone i really trust (dont have many), and she is certainly out of my circle of trust.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

Holland said:


> Thanks Anenome
> 
> I do understand that it is not the norm and that is OK. I once loved my ex with all my heart, I still have a place in my life and my heart for him as the great man that he is.
> 
> He is in no way my plan B, I find that an utterly disrespectful thing for a previous poster to have said. He is my friend and I am his. Not the same friends as we once were but friends nevertheless.


You might find it disrespectful, but the truth bears itself out over time. It wasn't meant to be disrespectful. The truth stings all of us at first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Garry2012

I was very much my wife's plan B. Heck, even after divorce had been established, she mentioned "renting month to month in case i decide to come back". Uhhh....dont bother...you have a boyfriend, broken my trust and decided to take him over me....even if for "just a trial". Gimme the house key...hasta la vista.


----------



## Holland

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *I think maybe the word friend is confusing some here. A friend IMHO is someone I trust and can count on. A friend does not hurt or lie to you. So saying that my answer would be no . Why would I be friends with someone that is my ex. You might be polite to them but not friends. *


I think you are right but not in the way you intended.

Firstly ex did not lie or cheat on me, he hurt me with his inactions.

I have realistic expectations of my friends, I do not hold people up to be Gods and understand that *all *people make mistakes. If someone did something to me that was vindictive, malicious etc then no way would they be my friend. However a person that is a normal fallible human and that makes mistakes can gladly call themselves my friend.

I have had friends hurt me with their words or actions, I have done the same. But never has it been from a place of nasty intent, stuff happens, we all make mistakes and to forgive others of their mistakes is a virtue.

Many of you say that ex will never be your friend because of what they did to you.
I look at it differently and have taken full responsibility for my own part in our marriage ending. It is never a one sided story but so many people walk around wounded because someone else did them wrong. Sorry but it takes two people, always.

So I took the time and looked at myself and what I did wrong. I took responsibility for what I contributed.
Then I looked at my role in the friendship with ex. I forgave him, I forgave myself. He is a normal guy that made mistakes, I am a normal woman that made mistakes.
We once loved each other but that ended, there is no reason for our friendship to end.
We have amazing children together, we respect each other as parents and friends. We want to move forward with our lives in an emotionally healthy way.

If people cannot see that this is possible then again I say it reflects on them and their issues, not on those of us that have got to this point.



> You might find it disrespectful, but the truth bears itself out over time. It wasn't meant to be disrespectful. The truth stings all of us at first.


 You really could not be more wrong. Ex is not my plan b, end of story. You are wrong, maybe that truth is what stings you.


----------



## 2ntnuf

sounds like an acquantance, not a friend


----------



## Lon

I don't mean to attack those who have a good relationship with their ex, but I can't help but wonder if the other side of the story sounds as rosy.

My ex would be perfectly content if I remained her buddy through this, and believe me if I hadn't have finally gone dark on her and put my own self respect first, she probably would think we still are pals, the only reason we are not friends is because I made it explicitly clear to her I wasnt and would not be her friend.

Maybe our new form of relationship together would be easier if we were, but personally I don't think if be able to grow past it and heal if I didn't proactively let go of a friendship with her. If I didn't make it clear to her by my actions, she would probably be claiming a wonderful friendship just like a couple others on here.


----------



## Holland

Lon said:


> I don't mean to attack those who have a good relationship with their ex, but I can't help but wonder if the other side of the story sounds as rosy.
> 
> My ex would be perfectly content if I remained her buddy through this, and believe me if I hadn't have finally gone dark on her and put my own self respect first, she probably would think we still are pals, the only reason we are not friends is because I made it explicitly clear to her I wasnt and would not be her friend.
> 
> Maybe our new form of relationship together would be easier if we were, but personally I don't think if be able to grow past it and heal if I didn't proactively let go of a friendship with her. If I didn't make it clear to her by my actions, she would probably be claiming a wonderful friendship just like a couple others on here.


Ex and I are both agree when it comes to where we are at now. There is never a one sided friendship, ex's or life time besties. If both don't want it then there is no friendship.



> sounds like an acquantance, not a friend


 *sigh* no we are friends. If you cannot accept that then it is not my problem.


----------



## Holland

Just interested:

for those of you that are jaded and cannot see that ex's can be friends, how do you think your attitude and actions affect your children? You dislike or hate the person that is their other parent.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Sorry, we have different definitions.

So your definition of hate requires an action? You have to disrespect them? 

You can be civil and agree to good parenting practices just as any good parents without holding your children hostage to your feelings about your ex. This is not a friend. 

I can agree with a killer if he says he likes ice cream. Yeah, I like it too. I don't like the person and I don't want to be his friend.


----------



## Lon

Holland said:


> Ex and I are both agree when it comes to where we are at now. *There is never a one sided friendship*, ex's or life time besties. If both don't want it then there is no friendship.


The bolded part I completely agree with, but as a recovering niceguy I will say that sometimes it can be made to seem there is a perfectly healthy friendship when indeed there may actually just be a lot of fear in its place on the other end. I obviously don't know a thing about your H so it would be pure speculation for me to say that is how it is for your relationship to him - nor would I suggest you act any different than to treat it as you are... I admire and respect that maturity, however in many cases such as my own, maturity can take the form of cutting off a toxic relationship.


----------



## Holland

2ntnuf said:


> Sorry, we have different definitions.
> 
> So your definition of hate requires an action? You have to disrespect them?
> 
> You can be civil and agree to good parenting practices just as any good parents without holding your children hostage to your feelings about your ex. This is not a friend.
> 
> I can agree with a killer if he says he likes ice cream. Yeah, I like it too. I don't like the person and I don't want to be his friend.


No you have misunderstood my posts here.


----------



## Holland

Lon said:


> The bolded part I completely agree with, but as a recovering niceguy I will say that sometimes it can be made to seem there is a perfectly healthy friendship when indeed there may actually just be a lot of fear in its place on the other end. I obviously don't know a thing about your H so it would be pure speculation for me to say that is how it is for your relationship to him - nor would I suggest you act any different than to treat it as you are... I admire and respect that maturity, however in many cases such as my own, maturity can take the form of cutting off a toxic relationship.


Yes I fully understand what you mean and appreciate that you can see that all cases are different.


----------



## dumpedandhappy

Holland said:


> Just interested:
> 
> for those of you that are jaded and cannot see that ex's can be friends, how do you think your attitude and actions affect your children? You dislike or hate the person that is their other parent.


What attitude is that? Which actions?
I really couldn't care at all for my EX. that's becasue she is not my friend, never will be again. This fact doesn't mean that my attitude or my actions around her or my children demonstrate anything negative, anything that might affect my kids worldview. The opposite in fact. 
I still smile, say hello, engage conversation ( about the kids or family in general), hell I even make her laugh with comments and such. I am polite and communicate. 
She is not a friend by virtue of the fact that should her existance turn her to dust, I would not miss her or cry for her passing. She would be just another human lost. In fact when I look at this alien, it is only with amusement and curiosity that I even address her in the first place. 
My kids see my actions and attitude as normal, like walking into the bakery and making small talk with the clerk when buying rolls. Same approach. 

Let me turn that question back on you: what message are YOU sending to the kids, when you act in a friendly and connected fashion with your EX? I would suspect that your kids would find that confusing, to say the least. 

My $0.02....($0.05 in USD)


----------



## 2ntnuf

Holland said:


> No you have misunderstood my posts here.


Obviously.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

Holland said:


> I think you are right but not in the way you intended.
> 
> Firstly ex did not lie or cheat on me, he hurt me with his inactions.


*You seem a little confused by my answer . So I will clear it up for you today. We are not talking about a girlfriend or buddy. We are talking about someone you divorced . I would be polite for the kids,friends and other family members. But I only use the word friend with people I completely trust . Plus I don't need a jump off (old sex buddy on the side) JMO when moving onto a new relationship, you don't hold onto the old one. A friendship with your ex spouse imho is just you being polite. JMO it is not a good idea to keep friendships with ex lovers. It is disrespectful to your new relationship. In reading your post ,you sound like your ex is not a friend (just someone you are nice too). I am the kind of friend you can depend on good or bad times. *


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## mrstj4sho88

2ntnuf said:


> sounds like an acquantance, not a friend


:iagree:


----------



## spitfire008

Ceegee said:


> Sorry Holland. I respect your point of view and maybe even admire your friendship with you ex. But this is my first post on TAM and even I know you're not going to find many who agree with you.
> 
> I am about 6 weeks into my collaborative divorce. Could I be friends with my ex? Sure, if I married Kate Upton and my STBXW suffered some kind of rare transfiguring disease I'd love to have her over for dinner.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrstj4sho88

Holland said:


> Just interested:
> 
> for those of you that are jaded and cannot see that ex's can be friends, how do you think your attitude and actions affect your children? You dislike or hate the person that is their other parent.



*I don't have hate for anyone get it correct. I said you be polite to your ex. I will agree to just disagree with you . You and I use the word friend differently.. *


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## mrstj4sho88

[B said:


> 2ntnuf;1190428]Obviously.


[/B]



*That makes two of us* :scratchhead:


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## 36Separated

We wnet for lunch again yesterday and thought she maybe genuie - but then when we went to mediation and she didnt get all her own way - -she went nuts again saying we cant be friends


----------



## Holland

dumpedandhappy said:


> What attitude is that? Which actions?
> I really couldn't care at all for my EX. that's becasue she is not my friend, never will be again. This fact doesn't mean that my attitude or my actions around her or my children demonstrate anything negative, anything that might affect my kids worldview. The opposite in fact.
> I still smile, say hello, engage conversation ( about the kids or family in general), hell I even make her laugh with comments and such. I am polite and communicate.
> She is not a friend by virtue of the fact that should her existance turn her to dust, I would not miss her or cry for her passing. She would be just another human lost. In fact when I look at this alien, it is only with amusement and curiosity that I even address her in the first place.
> My kids see my actions and attitude as normal, like walking into the bakery and making small talk with the clerk when buying rolls. Same approach.
> 
> *Let me turn that question back on you: what message are YOU sending to the kids, when you act in a friendly and connected fashion with your EX? I would suspect that your kids would find that confusing, to say the least. *
> 
> My $0.02....($0.05 in USD)


Firstly let me make this clear (although I have already said it numerous times) I am talking specifically about my friendship with my ex. I understand we are not the norm.
What I find odd is that people cannot just accept that others *are *capable of being in this place. But I can see that there are a lot of bitter and jaded people. For sure if my marriage had of ended due to infidelity etc then I doubt that I would be able to rise above that to be friends so well done to those that have done it.

*dumpedandhappy *That is a fair question and we have in fact had to deal with this as we do socialise together with the kids. At first it was confusing for your youngest, we did not recognise that straight away but when it became clear ex and I communicated about the problem and worked out a plan together. We have both followed that plan and our DD seems much more settled. Like everything in life, nothing is perfect so we just deal with issues as they arise, it works well for us.

The flip side is that I have seen what happens first hand when parents do not get along. Eventually my parents became social friends later in my life. I can tell you that even that was better than when they showed complete dislike for each other.

To those that do want to have a friendship with the ex it is very possible. One book I read was "Spiritual Divorce" (although I am not a religious person) it showed me how to take responsibility for where I was in life and the mistakes I had made.
I am now whole after divorce and very very happy with my SO.


----------



## TheCrunch

Holland said:


> ... Eventually my parents became social friends later in my life. I can tell you that even that was better than when they showed complete dislike for each other.
> 
> ...


It sounds as though it was somewhat a relief for you when your parents eventually became friends once you were an adult. 

It's great that they eventually got to that point. I am thinking that if parents can get to a place where they forgive their partner it will set them free from resentment and bitterness and they will be happier for it and more easily move on with their altered lives with the children and/or new partner.

Obviously forgiving your ex and getting along/being friends is much easier said than done but it is worth it, especially for the children I think. 

How Forgiving your Partner can Help your Children - Children and Divorce / Warring Parents


----------



## Snookums

Co-parenting is one thing being friends is another. In most cases I think if you both were capable of being friends then divorce wouldn't have happened in the first place. I do think some exs want to be friends so they can still keep one foot in the door to the others life, in our experience it ultimately results in the ex being extremely intrusive & poisonous to our relationship.


----------



## Garry2012

I dunno. I might be in the small percentage. I strongly believe that my wife and I could be friends etc. but i absolutely refuse due to her infidelity. I very much agree she wants to "keep the door open" just in case there is a chance to keep me as plan b, or maybe she actually heard me tell her in a year or so she will regret all her actions, and thinks maybe im right. I agree too snookums, anything beyond a co-parenting agreement will simply hinder, hurt or ruin any future relationship.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

Snookums said:


> Co-parenting is one thing being friends is another. In most cases I think if you both were capable of being friends then divorce wouldn't have happened in the first place. I do think some exs want to be friends so they can still keep one foot in the door to the others life, in our experience it ultimately results in the ex being extremely intrusive & poisonous to our relationship.



*I totally agree with your comment*.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

Garry2012 said:


> . I agree too snookums, anything beyond a co-parenting agreement will simply hinder, hurt or ruin any future relationship.[/QUOTE:]
> 
> 
> :iagree:


----------



## Chuck71

I would like to add, my parents were married the first time for only a couple of months! They ended it pretty bitter. After some time apart, they talked one day and re-married soon after. I think they were completely apart a couple years. Had they not re-married I guess I would -still be a butterfly-; as mom used to tell me. So it is possible with or w/o children and maybe some time apart is really the only true way you can determine, are we friends or maybe we can't. But complete D/C may be a way to see if your sep/div was really what you wanted after all.


----------



## Holland

TheCrunch said:


> It sounds as though it was somewhat a relief for you when your parents eventually became friends once you were an adult.
> 
> It's great that they eventually got to that point. I am thinking that if parents can get to a place where they forgive their partner it will set them free from resentment and bitterness and they will be happier for it and more easily move on with their altered lives with the children and/or new partner.
> 
> Obviously forgiving your ex and getting along/being friends is much easier said than done but it is worth it, especially for the children I think.
> 
> How Forgiving your Partner can Help your Children - Children and Divorce / Warring Parents


That is a great link *TheCrunch* it describes very well what I went through and my reasoning.
As soon as I realised that the ex would not give me the closure I needed I sat down and wrote myself a letter but worded it as though it was from him. It was the words I needed to hear from him in order to forgive and move on. It worked brilliantly. I found my closure and can honestly say that I feel really emotionally healthy and whole. Many married people could not say that. Many people here clearly will never reach that point which is sad.



> Snookums
> Re: Can you divorce and be friends?
> Co-parenting is one thing being friends is another. In most cases I think if you both were capable of being friends then divorce wouldn't have happened in the first place. *I do think some exs want to be friends so they can still keep one foot in the door to the others life, in our experience it ultimately results in the ex being extremely intrusive & poisonous to our relationship.*


I do agree that some people can be like this but it is not the case with ex and I.


----------



## TheCrunch

How Forgiving your Partner can Help your Children - Children and Divorce / Warring Parents



Holland said:


> That is a great link *TheCrunch* it describes very well what I went through and my reasoning.
> As soon as I realised that the ex would not give me the closure I needed I sat down and wrote myself a letter but worded it as though it was from him. It was the words I needed to hear from him in order to forgive and move on. It worked brilliantly. I found my closure and can honestly say that I feel really emotionally healthy and whole. Many married people could not say that. Many people here clearly will never reach that point which is sad.
> 
> ...


I think it's fantastic that you found a way to give yourself the closure you needed and no doubt deserved to move onwards and upwards with your life - and what a novel way to do it. 

Can I ask, if it is the case that your ex persists in being a pain in the neck, would you/do you re-read your letter to help you through a difficult patch? Or was it more of a one off thing with the letter I wonder?


----------



## Holland

The interesting thing about writing that letter was that after I did it I let go of my pent up anger towards his inability to not give me closure.
This was the path to us finding our friendship and peace with our divorce.
I know him well, I know he is not capable of deep communication, I was relieved when I let him off the hook by writing that letter. He was relieved that I stopped pursuing him for closure. He has no idea that I wrote the letter.
Ex is not a pain in the neck sort of person, this is why we can be friends and why I value his friendship because I like him as a person. I can see how odd that must sound to some. 

During this time I had also done a lot of journal writing. I recently read the whole lot through, it was amazing to read my thoughts back then. I tore the whole lot up and threw them out. That was the day I felt at peace with the divorce. 

I was in the early stages of my new relationship when I read the letter/journal back. Reading all that stuff really reinforced just what I want out of a relationship. I have found all of that and more with my SO. Communication is key for both of us and we work through things as they happen, not let anything build up.


----------



## TheCrunch

Hi Holland - Of course it helped that your ex was a reasonable sort of person but in any event it sounds like you have journeyed through a process which we might all learn from.

Thanks so much for sharing - I'm now thinking it seems that *recognising and accepting* what sort of person your ex-partner is (pain in the neck or not), having realistic expections and forgiving is all very important to being able to let go and have peace of mind, whether you remain friends or not. 

Must also say I agree with your comment on communication - resentments are slow but certain relationship killers. Sounds like you have really taken stock and learned from your past experiences to the betterment of your new relationship. :smthumbup:


----------



## EnjoliWoman

TheCrunch said:


> It sounds as though it was somewhat a relief for you when your parents eventually became friends once you were an adult.
> 
> It's great that they eventually got to that point. I am thinking that if parents can get to a place where they forgive their partner it will set them free from resentment and bitterness and they will be happier for it and more easily move on with their altered lives with the children and/or new partner.
> 
> Obviously forgiving your ex and getting along/being friends is much easier said than done but it is worth it, especially for the children I think.
> 
> How Forgiving your Partner can Help your Children - Children and Divorce / Warring Parents


Can YOU forgive when they can't/won't/never will? Friendships are two-sided. I thought we could get there before the war of 2009.


----------



## arbitrator

Just as I had said earlier, friendship is possible, greatly provided that the dissolution did not come about by means of infidelity and the resulting deception that so often accompanies it.

I'm sorry, but true "friends" just don't do that to each other!


----------



## TheCrunch

EnjoliWoman said:


> Can YOU forgive when they can't/won't/never will? Friendships are two-sided. I thought we could get there before the war of 2009.


If I understand you correctly you are asking can you forgive your partner for not forgiving you. I would say yes you can (not necessarily easy though). 

That said, if you forgive them but they still don't want to be friends, you cannot force a friendship. Once you know you've done your best to forgive and make things right I would think you can more easily let go. If your ex doesn't want to be friendly, it doesn't mean you can't move on and live your life contentedly. It's your ex's loss if they cannot forgive and in so doing choose to remain bitter and angry.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

TheCrunch said:


> If I understand you correctly you are asking can you forgive your partner for not forgiving you. I would say yes you can (not necessarily easy though).
> 
> That said, if you forgive them but they still don't want to be friends, you cannot force a friendship. Once you know you've done your best to forgive and make things right I would think you can more easily let go. If your ex doesn't want to be friendly, it doesn't mean you can't move on and live your life contentedly. It's your ex's loss if they cannot forgive and in so doing choose to remain bitter and angry.


I let go and 'forgave' his abusive nature. He's not physically abusing daughter and instead has bonded with her in a nearly unnatural way - thinks she walks on water because she has his genes and forgets/ignores she has half of my genetics as well. I understand it's an illness. But because of that he will never forgive me for leaving. He just is incapable of seeing anyone's side but his own.

So yeah, I gave up. Just living my life and being cordial in person.


----------



## BeachGuy

I've wondered what it would be like if/when we divorce. We separated twice and we were amicable and let the kids go to whoever's house they wanted every day. It was like we were still a family but lived in two different houses. But I did continue to take care of things I wouldn't do after a divorce. Like cutting grass, home maintenance, etc. She's so desperate to have everyone else do everything for her it'll be interesting to see. I think she'll do things that I would've normally done, but she'd text me for advice first.

At least that's what my crystal ball says....


----------



## Holland

TheCrunch said:


> Hi Holland - Of course it helped that your ex was a reasonable sort of person but in any event it sounds like you have journeyed through a process which we might all learn from.
> 
> Thanks so much for sharing - *I'm now thinking it seems that recognising and accepting what sort of person your ex-partner is (pain in the neck or not), having realistic expections and forgiving is all very important to being able to let go and have peace of mind, whether you remain friends or not. *
> 
> Must also say I agree with your comment on communication - resentments are slow but certain relationship killers. Sounds like you have really taken stock and learned from your past experiences to the betterment of your new relationship. :smthumbup:


Yes I agree with this and regardless of remaining friends or not, being able to forgive not only your ex but yourself is vital to good emotional health and the ability to move onto a new relationship. 
Just look at how many second marriages fail, makes me wonder if people have resolved their issues from the last marriage before entering the next. You cannot run and hide from problems and issues, they will always catch up with you.

*BeachGuy* my ex is a helper. One of the best things he did for me post separation was to *not *help me. It was for the best because we needed to set some boundaries and I needed to stand up and start getting my independence back. 

We are like a family that live in 2 houses, the kids have full set ups at both houses and don't seem to have a problem going from one house to the other. We only live 15 minutes apart so it is easy if the kids need to go to the other house for whatever reason.


----------



## Garry2012

We are like a family that live in 2 houses, the kids have full set ups at both houses and don't seem to have a problem going from one house to the other. We only live 15 minutes apart so it is easy if the kids need to go to the other house for whatever reason.[/QUOTE

This gives me hope that we can move forward like this. I want this for my kids...it will greatly soften the experience.


----------



## dumpedandhappy

*Friendships: The Nature of Friends*

This thread comes to my mind regularily, a day or two ago my EX mentioned that I had "un-friended" her on FB. I didn't feel the need to respond to her on the comment, since I do not beleive she is a friend. 

As I read through this thread I am seeing many people defining friendships, and so I offer a quick insight..some wisdom ( not my own...)
*The Teacher stated...

Young man, be aware of these four enemies disguised as friends: the taker, the talker, the flatterer, and the reckless companion.

The taker can be identified by four things: by only taking, asking for a lot while giving little, performing duty out of fear, and offering service in order to gain something.

The talker can be identified by four things: by reminding of past generosity, promising future generosity, mouthing empty words of kindness, and protesting personal misfortune when called on to help.

The flatterer can be identified by four things: by supporting both bad and good behavior indiscriminately, praising you to your face, and putting you down behind your back.

The reckless companion can be identified by four things: by accompanying you in drinking, roaming around at night, partying, and gambling.*

It is within the Teacher's Words above that I best find my EX's category, she proves it constantly to me in our limited dealings. It is this logic, this knowledge of friendships that assure me that my EX is no friend of mine. 

How do you catagorize your EX? Taker, Talker, Flatterer or Reckless Companion? 

Better yet, how do you catagorize yourself as you are to your friends in general?


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## Holland

I cannot see ex or myself in those 4 categories, they are all negative. It is a very limited list of types of people.

But to answer your second question, to my friends in general I am considered a "good friend". 
I am a good shoulder to cry on, will help out where I can, non judgemental, love to have a good laugh.
I would say I am very similar to most of my friends. Generally all well educated, middle class, good moral and virtues, lots and lots of fun.
Most of my friendships are the sort that we don't live in each others pockets, it may be a few months between visits but it always feels like yesterday.

TBH I feel blessed to have wonderful friends, some I have know for over 35 years. Not one of them would be anywhere near fitting your descriptions.


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## dumpedandhappy

Holland, so glad you asked...the Teacher has more...

*Young man, be aware of these four good-hearted friends: the helper, the friend who endures in good times and bad, the mentor, and the compassionate friend.

The helper can be identified by four things: by protecting you when you are vulnerable, and likewise your wealth, being a refuge when you are afraid, and in various tasks providing double what is requested.

The enduring friend can be identified by four things: by telling you secrets, guarding your own secrets closely, not abandoning you in misfortune, and even dying for you.

The mentor can be identified by four things: by restraining you from wrongdoing, guiding you towards good actions, telling you what you ought to know, and showing you the path to heaven [lasting happiness].

The compassionate friend can be identified by four things: by not rejoicing in your misfortune, delighting in your good fortune, preventing others from speaking ill of you, and encouraging others who praise your good qualities.*


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## Garry2012

My STBXW is/was a taker....and is still trying to take!


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## dumpedandhappy

Gary2012,

*The taker
The taker is out for herself and weighs her interactions with a view to what she can gain. This person may be marked by false generosity and by a tendency to put herself first and disregard the needs of others. Observe with discrimination the people in your life. Are any of them “takers”? Do you have tendencies in this direction?

A good friend (non-taker) is consistent in all her friendships, and treats people in a caring way in good times and bad. You can tell a lot about someone by the way she treats others. If she is kind and generous to you but cruel and stingy to others, how can you trust her? An unwholesome friend says nice things to you when you’re happy and generous but disappears when you’re broke or depressed.*


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## 36Separated

Ok, we went out as afmaily and got on great, were going out again wed as a family im i being used?


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## Garry2012

I would say you are. My STBXW would love for us to ACT all friendly.... I think it makes her believe that I too am glad the marriage is ending... So it's not all her fault. She wants to keep me as plan b, and i still think, in the back of her mind, she is thinking I am her safety net if this all falls through. So she wants it to all be so civil and sweet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 36Separated

think i need end it - she should be guilty for what she done


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## arbitrator

36Separated said:


> think i need end it - she should be guilty for what she done


More especially if she was, in any way, deceptive in the commision of her infidelity!


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## 36Separated

She has lied all the time


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## Garry2012

Mine has not admitted to it at all either.. Nor is She guilty, remorseful or care in the least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## office girlie

Mine has not admitted anything at all but there was really no need to as it was in black and white in a text and he just walked out after I told him to leave . The divorce was very quick yet I still cannot seem to get over being so hurt and pissed. I have gone passed the hurt and seem to b just very ANGRY. It makes me feel better to call them both names in any text I may send to him which I have tried not to do but seems like their is something every week that we must discuss. The whole divorce had gone forward that day from texting one another because he will not talk on the phone to me. I think that may b why I am so angry as well. How does one walk away from 14 years without even talking? I think it was just another one of his abusive mind games he did to me. Oh we'll, trying to move forward its been only 3 months since I found out and I'm already divorced / if I can just avoid the texting I think I can move on. B glad when the holidays r over ! Ugh......,


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## Chuck71

I 2nd that about the holidays!


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## stillhoping

Don't give them the power to ruin the holidays. Even though I was sad and angry last year, I did my best to look for opportunities for joy. This year is much better.


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## Chuck71

no kids here unless you count the one she had prev which I raised as my own. if young children, yes it would be very rough.


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## LVS

Talk in a friendly way maybe! Becoming friends! No way.
How to become friends when we never was?


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## TheCrunch

office girlie said:


> Mine has not admitted anything at all but there was really no need to as it was in black and white in a text and he just walked out after I told him to leave . The divorce was very quick yet I still cannot seem to get over being so hurt and pissed. I have gone passed the hurt and seem to b just very ANGRY. It makes me feel better to call them both names in any text I may send to him which I have tried not to do but seems like their is something every week that we must discuss. The whole divorce had gone forward that day from texting one another because he will not talk on the phone to me. I think that may b why I am so angry as well. *How does one walk away from 14 years without even talking?* *I think it was just another one of his abusive mind games he did to me. *Oh we'll, trying to move forward its been only 3 months since I found out and I'm already divorced / if I can just avoid the texting I think I can move on. B glad when the holidays r over ! Ugh......,


I feel for you as it is so hard to move on when you don't get the closure you deserve. And I believe you have hit the nail on the head when you say about mind games - since you have acknowled this to yourself rest assured you are on the right road to overcoming and getting past it. 

You know you deserve better and rest assured HE knows this too but is not enough of a man to hold up his hands and own his mistakes. I would say he is too ashamed and chicken to face you and talk. Just not man enough. Why let such a pathetic person have the power to control your emotions and make you angry. Three months is only a short time but you can start now with trying to let it go. Don't allow feelings of hatred and anger to overwhelm you coz when you do he is in control of your emotions. You have already divorced him - good move. Now you can start *methodically using positive thinking* to let it go. Won't be easy and sometimes it'll be one step forward, two steps back but eventually you'll get to a place where you can forgive the f***** and be free. 

Yes, I'm saying forgive him - you don't have to necessarily give him the satisfaction of knowing that you have forgiven him but try and do it for your own sake so that you can control your emotions (including anger) rather than him having that power over you. 

Meanwhile make plans now for how you will best enjoy the holidays and don't dwell on dreading them.

http://www.womansdivorce.com/forgiveness.html


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## office girlie

Gee , I just got to the anger stage and don't think I want to let it go yet. I don't dwell on it but I will not b nice to him. I know these things happen all the time but just not ready to forgive yet. I know I will have to eventually to let it all go / the anger as I've been here before and the anger can ruin you and they don't feel a thing. But for me it helps to get to the next stage. I plan on enjoying my family and the holidays as well. I actually love Xmas. I have a great family, a job and a lot to b thankful for and actually glad he's gone as the stress was getting to b unbearable.


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## TheCrunch

Hey that's fine - you cannot force these things if the time isn't yet right. It's good to know you're counting your blessings and keeping things in perspective so really you are starting to let go already I think.


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## Garry2012

office girlie said:


> Gee , I just got to the anger stage and don't think I want to let it go yet. I don't dwell on it but I will not b nice to him. I know these things happen all the time but just not ready to forgive yet. I know I will have to eventually to let it all go / the anger as I've been here before and the anger can ruin you and they don't feel a thing. But for me it helps to get to the next stage. I plan on enjoying my family and the holidays as well. I actually love Xmas. I have a great family, a job and a lot to b thankful for and actually glad he's gone as the stress was getting to b unbearable.


Boy thats me too. I am SO in the anger stage, and she could care less. I hope to be able to forgive someday, but it will be a long time. I like the holidays too, this year not so much. Yeah, we are at the unbearable now...at least for me. I want her out.


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## mrstj4sho88

*That would seem like to much work . The meaning of friendship may vary for some. I don't think I could have a real friendship with an ex*.


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## Freak On a Leash

I was hoping we'd have an amicable divorce and remain friends but I have come to the conclusion that's not going to happen. I don't want to deal with him at all at this point. He's an alcoholic and there's no way you can rationalize or deal with an alcoholic. You just want to get past it and survive. 

At this point, I want to divorce him and deal with him as little as possible. If it wasn't for my 15 year old son I'd just walk away from him completely. He's done nothing but disrupt all our lives. 

He's called 3 times in the last 2 days wanting to "talk" to my son and me and I've just ignored the messages he left. I don't want him ruining our Christmas. I just want to be rid of him.


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## patterned

office girlie said:


> Mine has not admitted anything at all but there was really no need to as it was in black and white in a text and he just walked out after I told him to leave . The divorce was very quick yet I still cannot seem to get over being so hurt and pissed. I have gone passed the hurt and seem to b just very ANGRY. It makes me feel better to call them both names in any text I may send to him which I have tried not to do but seems like their is something every week that we must discuss. The whole divorce had gone forward that day from texting one another because he will not talk on the phone to me. I think that may b why I am so angry as well. How does one walk away from 14 years without even talking? I think it was just another one of his abusive mind games he did to me. Oh we'll, trying to move forward its been only 3 months since I found out and I'm already divorced / if I can just avoid the texting I think I can move on. B glad when the holidays r over ! Ugh......,


It's been a bit longer for me but I can relate, and appreciate these feelings.


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## hope4family

I dont think friendship is possible. My s2bxw is way to toxic and snide in her comments for me to allow her to become that close again.


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## zillard

If my stbxw treated me like a friend (respect, empathy, honesty, caring, genuine interest, helpful, etc) then she wouldn't be my stbxw as she never would've cheated... or at least would be remorseful. 

She's now shocked that I removed her from FB and don't answer her calls and texts as quickly as she would like (if at all). Says I usually drop what I'm doing to answer texts from others. 

She's right. 

Because they are my friends.


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## office girlie

After going to pharmacy and picking up my $100 Rx that use to cost me $0 and then going to Home Depot to get the crap to fix my ceiling that he said he would take care of and had to spent $50 there today I think NOT! I was so afraid he would walk into pharmacy there as he had a Rx that he hadn't picked up! I have had to do EVERYTHING from filing to changing my name and emails etc I could just scream! My UVERSE seems to b the main thing I cannot get changed over / it has been exhausting ! Well here's to the NEW YEAR! It can only get better I hope!!


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## Garry2012

zillard said:


> If my stbxw treated me like a friend (respect, empathy, honesty, caring, genuine interest, helpful, etc) then she wouldn't be my stbxw as she never would've cheated... or at least would be remorseful.
> 
> She's now shocked that I removed her from FB and don't answer her calls and texts as quickly as she would like (if at all). Says I usually drop what I'm doing to answer texts from others.
> 
> She's right.
> 
> Because they are my friends.


Why dont they understand that? Seems pretty basic. I know when i drop her off fb, i will get an earfull. Thinking of doing it in a day or so, while she goes to houston.


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