# Help! Advice needed....



## sarena (Aug 13, 2013)

I have been married 3 years, and we have a beautiful baby boy together-4months old.

My husband works in a bar, and basically does late hours.

We have not got a very active sex life, but then never did...it died completely during pregnancy-not my decision.

I found a photo on his phone of a topless woman in the bar he works i think. there is no one else in the photo.

I confronted him in tears about this. I was and still am in shock. His first reponse was what photo? quickly followed by him saying that at work they all take their tops off at end of night in clean up shiftI(i know this is true, i have seen photos he took of guys he works with doing this before this photo emerged) He claims a girl he barely knows was finishing up drinks with her gay friend took her top off when they did, that he threatened to and did take photo of her, that is all. He swears he loves me, would never do that, and is not sexual at all past couple of years.

I have begged him to tell me the truth. when i first found photo i wanted him out of my house and life but i guess he has me sweet talked. the only thing is i feel like i might be the biggest fool on earth, believing his story, completely in denial. I love this man so much, and we have a good life together.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi,

Sorry you are here.

You need more evidence as the story *could* be true (probably not quite, but the gist could be).

Did you check his phone for texts etc?

Can you check his phone bill to see who he rings or texts?

Get a hold of a Voice Activated Recorder and put it in his car. Weightlifter has great advice on that.

It will be difficult, but make out that you are satisfied with his response and then get gathering evidence.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

sarena said:


> I have been married 3 years, and we have a beautiful baby boy together-4months old.
> 
> My husband works in a bar, and basically does late hours.
> 
> ...


take a breathe and don't lose sight of your history together. You need to get full access to his phone (texts) and emails.
He should be willing to take a polygraph if you ask as well (easy to arrange and not that expensive any more) not your fault he has not initiated sex in months and you found a nude photo on his phone that is his to own, so if he says no to any of the requests, you have your answer..
There is a good chance he is just stupid though. Just based on what you said to us and the fact you do not mention any other sign of cheating from him, he may just be dumb. Taking shirts off at the bar? Sorry, worked at a bunch of these for years and never once heard of this. Are they doing it to attract the female servers? can't see any reason for this but to attract ****s


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Not good. Working in a bar bring along it's own set of problems, and then working the closing shift. It would be too much temptation for me. I believe it is time for your husband to find another line of work.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sarena said:


> His first reponse was *what photo*? quickly followed by him saying that at work* they all take their tops off at end of night in clean up* shiftI(i know this is true, i have seen photos he took of guys he works with doing this before this photo emergedl.


Does he work at a strip club? Because this excuse is ridiculous, at best.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

I guess I worked in the wrong bars.


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## sarena (Aug 13, 2013)

thanks to everyone for your replies-funny and honest! 

When i found out, i asked immediately for his email and facebook password. I checked his text messages. I have never done that before(not a bunny boiler) but wanted to look before he could delete anything. There was nothing there. Chris, i like your idea of voice activated recorder, think i will go for it. I don't want to do this, but he has lied to me about another matter before. 

Is there any way I can get the truth out of him by just talking? i have tried pleading, saying we cant get over this til i know the truth, etc. but he stands firm over his story.

He says it was stupid thing to do but that is all that happened. That if there was anyone else he would respect me enough to leave, not to cheat. 

This is really a battle between heart and head. my heart believes in our relationship 100%. My head looks at the world around me where many people are deceived. If I heard my own story I would be rolling my eyes at how obvious it sounds that he is cheating. but it is very different being in that story.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sarena said:


> thanks to everyone for your replies-funny and honest!
> 
> When i found out, i asked immediately for his email and facebook password. I checked his text messages. I have never done that before(not a bunny boiler) but wanted to look before he could delete anything. There was nothing there. Chris, i like your idea of voice activated recorder, think i will go for it. I don't want to do this, but he has lied to me about another matter before.
> 
> ...


Confront him but from a position of knowledge. VAR in the car first, then take it from there.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

sarena said:


> Is there any way I can get the truth out of him by just talking? i have tried pleading, saying we cant get over this til i know the truth, etc. but he stands firm over his story.


There is no way you will get the truth out of him by talking, cajoling or threatening.

I distinctly remember sitting in a freezing car on the moors. We had been sat there for about 20 minutes in -15c at best - probably colder.

I knew something had gone on - it simply had to have - but my then wife sat there and denied, denied and denied.

She went so far as to swear on our own children's lives that nothing had happened.

Long story short, I ended up finding out but months later and she had been boxed into a corner.

Cheaters lie. It's what they do. They see *you* as the barrier, the Bad Thing, the person standing in their way. As such, they have no respect for you and hence see no reason to tell you The Truth.

He needs consequences but, before that, you need evidence.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Let me see here. You found a picture of a topless woman on his phone. That is all you found. Your hubby is not in the picture. You scoured the text message and emails with nothing showing. 

Although perhaps out of line, this doesn't seem to be something to go nuclear over.... Go into stealth mode and take a chill pill. You may be making way too much of this.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

sarena said:


> thanks to everyone for your replies-funny and honest!
> 
> When i found out, i asked immediately for his email and facebook password. I checked his text messages. I have never done that before(not a bunny boiler) but wanted to look before he could delete anything. There was nothing there. Chris, i like your idea of voice activated recorder, think i will go for it. I don't want to do this, but he has lied to me about another matter before.
> 
> ...


Sarena,

That is the problem with confronting too soon, with evidence that the spouse could come up with an excuse for. That's OK. No one gets this type of experience without having gone through it - unless they happen to be a TAM junkie ahead of it.

You need to continue to monitor him, because I agree that sounds like a flimsy excuse. Barely plausible, but possible.

VAR in his car is a good start. Keep monitoring his cell phone bill and compare it with the texts on his phone, to see if any have been deleted. He should be willing to voluntarily give his phone for you to check. 

I also agree that it's going to be difficult to monitor him at a bar. I would suggest you have a discussion with him about another line of work. It's just too easy to cheat.

You might want to have a friend he doesn't know pop in to watch him from time to time. You could make surprise visits as well.

Hopefully, like the other poster suggested; he's just not real smart.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I would check the cell phone bill just before I put it to rest. You can delete them on the phone but not in the bill. Still he had poor boundaries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarena (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks folks, just ordered VAC now, on fast delivery. Only had 2 minutes after I saw photo before hubby returned to car, so no time to get smart and make a proper plan-like I said, just shocked......

Chris very sorry to hear details of your story. Cant imagine how tough it is when the worst imaginable is confirmed.

He also runs a part time business, and so has many contacts-male and female-and he is not a talker the phone either, so not easy way to solve this-he could be ringing a number repeatedly relating to business. 

Its unlikely but not impossible that his story is true. My hope is that it is true, that he is just...well dumb! Not pleased about him taking photo anyway-she has skank face but good body. pregnancy has taken its toll on mine. Cant help but compare  Hopefully the VAC will reveal more.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

sarena said:


> Thanks folks, just ordered VAC now, on fast delivery. Only had 2 minutes after I saw photo before hubby returned to car, so no time to get smart and make a proper plan-like I said, just shocked......
> 
> Chris very sorry to hear details of your story. Cant imagine how tough it is when the worst imaginable is confirmed.
> 
> ...


It's a VAR dear. Voice activated recorder.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

sarena said:


> Hopefully the VAC will reveal more.


Actually, you might want to hope that it doesnt reveal more!


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

sarena said:


> Thanks folks, just ordered VAC now, on fast delivery. Only had 2 minutes after I saw photo before hubby returned to car, so no time to get smart and make a proper plan-like I said, just shocked......
> 
> Chris very sorry to hear details of your story. Cant imagine how tough it is when the worst imaginable is confirmed.
> 
> ...


Cut wheat and sugar out of your diet and you're baby fat will go away fast.

Go see a lawyer to learn your rights even if you're not going to do anything. If he asks, say it's because you needed more honest company. Let him think you know something and are getting ready to drop the hammer. 

Start doing the 180.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

A bar is one of the deadliest places a spouse can work imo. It's a recipe for f*cking disaster. Late hours + booze + more booze + lowered inhibitions + a sexually charged environment + idiot enabling coworkers = trouble.


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## sarena (Aug 13, 2013)

Talked more to hubby yesterday, he admitted he encouraged her to take off top, but that was all, no kissing, nada. Not sure if I can believe that, could well be PG version of the story...

My VAR(thanks for correction bad memory)arrived today-where in the vehicle is a good place to put it? any advice about use? It will be tempting to check it every day but i think i should wait a week to collect enough to listen to. Feel guilty but trying to ignore that-I'd prefer to feel guilty and know the truth than live a lie. Either way its going to be a tough week.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Get Heavy duty Velcro and place it up under the Front Seat.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Get Heavy duty Velcro and place it up under the Front Seat. Also make sure you turn the sound off so it does not beep when it comes on.


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## sarena (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks, will do. It arrived today, played with settings, ready to go now, just need opportunity to plant it. Really hoping his story is true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

It sounds to me that you might be making this to be more than it is and that he is actually being truthful. 

I would be upset if I was him and found the VAR while cleaning the car especially if I wasn't doing anything wrong. It would mean to me that my wife doesn't trust me and has gone so far as to break the law to spy on me which isn't very cool. 

A guy working in a bar is going to see alot of stuff and likely get hit on if he's attractive. You need to have a high level of trust in him, but if someone wants to cheat they will find a way no matter where they work. 

I would prefer to have a wife that gives me the benefit of the doubt and believes what I say is truth until it is proven otherwise. 

You have no proof of anything other than some girl getting topless in a bar. 

Just my opinion....


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Row Jimmy said:


> It sounds to me that you might be making this to be more than it is and that he is actually being truthful.
> 
> I would be upset if I was him and found the VAR while cleaning the car especially if I wasn't doing anything wrong. It would mean to me that my wife doesn't trust me and has gone so far as to break the law to spy on me which isn't very cool.
> 
> ...


I see your point in this and can tell you first hand I fell for your thought process as well. Thought nothing was wrong in my marriage and gave my WW undying trust. When I found the same sort of evidence, she denied and lied to me. I still had a gut instinct things weren't right. Many times was assured by her that nothing was happening/ happened. Then perchance found the hidden email accounts (yes accounts) and social media and there in black white and all the other colors was the hard and fast proof. Writings, pictures, the whole shebang. Even found the latest ones where she was calling him to get advice on what to do since I suspected. You can never trust a cheater as the lie when caught and lie to cover their lies. It is a bad downward spiral.


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## sarena (Aug 13, 2013)

Row Jimmy, I get where you are coming from, I really do. I do not plan to do VAR for long, just a couple of weeks. Sadly, on a very different matter he has lied many many times to my face. We have worked through this - his addiction. It's still there but he no longer lies about it. He is a great man, and my heart tells me this is the truth, but for my own sanity, I must know for sure. I would never look at anyone-since I met him its like a switch was turned off for being attracted to others but it does not appear to be the same for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

sarena said:


> This is really a battle between heart and head. my heart believes in our relationship 100%.


Same problem here. I know her affair is over, and my heart knows she loves me, but my head keeps asking the same questions over and over again. You're not alone, and it's not weird nor obsessive to wonder about it all.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

sarena said:


> Row Jimmy, I get where you are coming from, I really do. I do not plan to do VAR for long, just a couple of weeks. Sadly, on a very different matter he has lied many many times to my face. We have worked through this - his addiction. It's still there but he no longer lies about it. He is a great man, and my heart tells me this is the truth, but for my own sanity, I must know for sure. I would never look at anyone-since I met him its like a switch was turned off for being attracted to others but it does not appear to be the same for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dear sarena,

For your sake, I'm hoping there's no more to this than what you H has told you, but . . . you say he has history of lying and you know he lied to you about the picture because at first he said the woman took her top off of her own volition but later admitted that he had encouraged her to do it.

There are so many stories on TAM/CWI in which the WS starts with a (somewhat) believable, innocent sounding story that, over time becomes less believable and/or less innocent.

I agree with the advice you have received to keep looking into this but not to overreact. I also agree with the point that bars are not the best place for married people to work. Maybe you should use this opportunity to talk to him about getting into a new line of work.

Even if nothing bad has happened so far, why run the risk that his work environment might cause problems in the future?

Wishing you the best.


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## disconnected (May 30, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> Cheaters lie. It's what they do. They see *you* as the barrier, the Bad Thing, the person standing in their way. As such, they have no respect for you and hence see no reason to tell you The Truth.


Exactly. My WH has virtually moved out ... he said he is house-sitting for someone for a few weeks. He does not know (or say) when he might be back.

He said he doesn't love me any more. 

He will crash and burn ... and I need to stay here to see it.

I have 'separated' from him in my mind, but the time is not right for me to move back to Australia. But things are falling in to place so it may not be too long away.

If someone is cheating, then it is pointless to trust them. And, don't let them blame you ... they cheated - you didn't!

He blamed me (and I blamed myself) - but this forum has been great for me. I can now see the situation for what it actually is .. a sleazy old man chasing after a young predator.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Ack Im late. Sorry. Please peeps when i miss a thread PM me and point me.

Here is my standard instruction set. Invert the sexes as I mostly deal with betrayed men. BTW the story is quite plausable. I work with a former bartender. Women losing their tops is a common thing sex or not. Nonetheless toxic environment so here are your instructions.

What brand did you end up buying? If not sony use whatever bit rate is closest to 44K. DO NOT USE 8K BIT RATE. The quality of the sound is abysmal at 8K.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for three men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful.

Look for a burner phone. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone"

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex


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## sarena (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks for detailed advice weightlifter! I went for an Olympus 1GB model, and turned off the sound feature, worked through the manual as best I could-this is something I would normally get the hubby to do, so it was new to me. 

He was suspicious when package arrived and I am the worst liar known to humankind-he asked what it was, and I said a vibrator, because of non existent sex life....he is a bit suspicious, asked had I got a tracking device like those used in breaking bad tv show(off topic, highly recommend that show) so I felt I really needed to hide it somewhere that would not be detected, in case he was searching van.

I found a hole somewhere around the middle of the van between two seats, lower than knee level and popped it in. As the device is white, I popped a little black cloth in after, that will also stop it falling out. I hope I can fish it out, and that it will be able to pick something up. I felt I had to ask fast, as he always drops his co worker home, that there may be a key conversation tonight about the event/my finding out about it.

I have to say I think I may have cracked up if it was not for finding this site. I have told no one about what is happening and it is such a lonely place to be, this site changes all that, and its great to get input from everyone. I would not speak badly about hubby, unless I have the hard facts, and choose to end it, in which case it will be on facebook, on the side of his van, and anywhere else I can publicly humiliate him. But that is only if guilty. 

I appreciate you saying its possible that she may have been just topless-its something I would never do so hard to imagine someone else doing that-and have their photo taken in this media sharing world, unless there was trust involved. But maybe there are women who are like that, like the school holidays-no class.


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## sarena (Aug 13, 2013)

Disconnected, your story sounds horrible-bad enough that he was cheating without blaming you. Its such a knock to self esteem without that adding to it. Sounds like you are strong and can get through whatever is to come,and you deserve a hell of allot better.

All-I appreciate the advice regarding changing work, but in the current climate jobs are practically on an endangered list, and is not a short term option. he is looking for other work, but no luck so far. If he quit we would not be in a bad place financially, but his addiction gets bad when he is unemployed, based on one previous experience I do not want to repeat ever.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

sarena said:


> Thanks for detailed advice weightlifter! I went for an Olympus 1GB model, and turned off the sound feature, worked through the manual as best I could-this is something I would normally get the hubby to do, so it was new to me.
> 
> He was suspicious when package arrived and I am the worst liar known to humankind-he asked what it was, and I said a vibrator, because of non existent sex life....he is a bit suspicious, asked had I got a tracking device like those used in breaking bad tv show(off topic, highly recommend that show) so I felt I really needed to hide it somewhere that would not be detected, in case he was searching van.
> 
> ...


The fact he is asking if it was a tracker is a bad sign; he is feeling guilty and worried about you doing something to "catch him out".

People do mad things - especially when drunk - and some women get off on putting other men into situations that will look bad to their wives. I used to work with a woman that was, on the face of it, a lovely, balanced, caring, person.

One Christmas do, she let a "friend" take a picture of her ample cleavage and text a married man with it just "for a laugh". It caused absolute uproar for him. When she was challenged about it the next day, she just shrugged and said she couldn't help someone taking a picture of "what she had".

She knew what was going on and chose to allow it to happen. I didn't speak to her again after although she didn't ever understand why what she had done had been wrong.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Sarena if you need audio clean up I am an Audacity black belt to get rid of things like vibration. All at your discretion of course.

As far as doubting alot of women allowing topless shots to be taken. Turn off safe search and google "self shot" nude. Be prepared for a TON of hits.


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## sarena (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks a million for the offer, I may need to take you up on that. God I feel like an old prude at the age of 29. Have some very old fashioned values that feel incompatible with today's world.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

No problem. Ive pulled whispers at 40 feet above the background noise. Then again the background noise was steady to make things simpler. Kind of just find the right set of audio mods to work a given siuation.

Lol @ theprude thing. Never been to mardi gras bead hunting i take it.


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