# 6 months after learning of affair I asked her to leave without me



## Malcolm38

Greetings and a Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all,

My older brother spoke of this website and how it has been helpful to him so I will be giving this a whirl, since I don't tend to "talk" about my problems very much. 

I have been married for 17 years, since I was 21 years old. We have 2 children together. A 10 year old daughter and a 5 year old daughter. 

It had been a good relationship on the whole, as we have had some of the problems that many married couples have. But nothing dramatic, such as addictions, violence or adultery, etc.

Ah, but there is the catch. In the spring of 2012 my wife was on a work trip to another part of the country for a week for a conference. Standard stuff as this has happened many times before. When she returned she seemed rather unlike herself, but I didn't put much thought into it at the time as we are both busy .

The BOMB was dropped on July 4th. Her phone went off when she was in the shower,It was a text message that said "What color underwear are you wearing today?". When she got out I asked her what the hell that was all about. Initially she told me it was a joke a friend was playing on her. 

Since I'm not 3 years old I asked her to try again. That is when she told me that she had slept with a co-worker on the trip, and that they had had sex one other time the week after she returned. Happy 4th everyone! 

She told me that she was sorry and that she wanted to keep it a secret forever, but that the guilt was too much for her to take. Especially after seeing me take the girls out for a day on the town the day before. What does that even mean exactly, who knows? Rather odd considering I actually had to confront her to get the information.

So in hindsight I think this is where I really kind of messed up, as I pretty much forgave her and didn't do very much other than try to move on. She has been more affectionate, and I have kept track of her communications and travels and don't have a reason to think things have continued. Boy toy is located in another office some 250 miles away, so the day to day thing would have been difficult to continue. 

Anyway, for some reason around the Holidays beginning I just started to find myself actually getting just angry about everything. I probably haven't been the perfect Husband or anything, but I didn't deserve to have any of this happen. I've never even looked at another girl since I met my wife. Don't I feel like an idiot now? 

Every year we have tended to visit her parents about 5 hours away for Christmas. About a week ago I just honestly felt dead inside to going and told her I wasn't coming along this year. The girls wanted to see their Grandparents so I was okay with that, as I trust my wife as a mother. Not that much as a woman anymore. 

She was all upset and telling me that I hadn't forgiven her after all. Well, no **** Sherlock. I honestly don't like her parents that much, and the thought of having to fake it just isn't something I can do at this point. 

I made a mistake not kicking her out of the house this summer. I think I was just numb and couldn't understand what had happened before. But now that I do understand, I think I'd actually like to file for divorce now. 

Am I nuts? How all over the board is this? Thing is, I REALLY dread having her come back tomorrow. I can't wait to see my girls again, but....ugh.


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## TiggyBlue

It sounds like to me you have probably started to come out of the shock of what happened, after you found out what did she put any effort in trying to gain your trust back or help you overcome her betrayal?
p.s don''t feel like an idiot because you were a faithful husband, there is nothing idiotic about being loyal.


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## Chaparral

Are you sure you don't want to save your family..


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## Chaparral

It looks like this was just swept under the rug and not dealt with. What has she done to try and make it up to you?


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## norajane

No, you aren't crazy. Sometimes you come to realize that you can't continue a relationship with someone who has cheated. It changes everything, including the way you see her and your marriage. It's ok to be angry. It's ok to choose a different path forward for yourself.


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## keko

No you're not nuts or crazy. Staying with her might haunt you for the rest of your life, whether she's cheating or not. If you value your sanity more then her, I support your decision to kick her out and divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Malcolm38

These are all very good points. Thank you. 

I certainly don't want to give the impression that I don't want to save my family. But honestly I don't think I'm the one that put us in jeopardy to begin with. 

I am angry. Very angry. Not physical violence angry, but angry that what had been a very good marriage has been torn in half by her wanting to have sex with another man. 

She has told me that she loves me very much, but it was like a drug having this guy pay attention to her. 

Hell, it probably was like a drug. I probably would have felt the same way about a woman younger than me paying attention and sexing me up as well. The difference is that I didn't entertain the notion. She did. 

She has apologized. Probably for getting caught, but she did apologize. I guess sometimes that doesn't even happen so perhaps I have that going for me. 

This thing just kind of happened to me over the last month or two where I just have fallen out of love with her. Maybe it's a coping mechanism? 

If it was just the two of us I wouldn't have any issue with filing for divorce tomorrow. But with our daughters involved, that really hurts me to think of not being a daily influence in their lives. Perhaps I have to just do the best I can over the next few years until they turn 18.


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## Malcolm38

One other thing that bugs me....

I was taking care of the youngest who had the flu that week that she was doing bedroom gymnastics with Mr. Perfect. 

I'm not looking for an award of Valor for taking care of my kid, but the contrast to our activities that week really angers me.


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## Acabado

Malcolm38 said:


> The BOMB was dropped on July 4th. Her phone went off when she was in the shower,It was a text message that said "What color underwear are you wearing today?".





> She told me that she was sorry and that she wanted to keep it a secret forever, but that the guilt was too much for her to take. Especially after seeing me take the girls out for a day on the town the day before. What does that even mean exactly, who knows? Rather odd considering I actually had to confront her to get the information.


She still need to try again. To own her stuff. That's why "reality" is hitting you harder now. She never came clean, she never onwed her stuff. You rugswept the whole thing by giving her cheap forgiveness.
It wasn't a 2 ONSs thing, it wasn't a mistake, it was an ongoing EA-PA with no intentions to stop. They were force to have it long distance but if he were local they would be banging like bunnies.

Are you sure they are in permanent NC? Did she the NC letter, is she transparent, acountable of her whereabouts? Have you the snooping tools in place to verify she actually ended it when she told?

Educate yourself at infidelity, read not just friends, any other book to process the whole thing, tell her to do it too so she make her part. There are books for waywards to help their betrayed to heal. HAs she really made any effort to getr advice on how to fix this?

Don't rugsweep it, deal with it, ask her to help you get throught it.


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## TiggyBlue

She apologized with words but did she with actions, words don't mean sh*t without anything to back it up.


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## 3putt

I think your biggest problem right now is the pain and suffering that has been heaped on you by her actions, yet she gets away scot-free when she's the one that created this whole crapstorm to begin with.

Not quite fair, huh?

How many people know about this?


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## 3putt

How do you know for a fact they are not still in contact? They could be emailing at work and you wouldn't be one bit wiser to it.


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## committedwife

Malcolm38 said:


> Am I nuts? How all over the board is this? Thing is, I REALLY dread having her come back tomorrow. I can't wait to see my girls again, but....ugh.


It sounds like you haven't done anything to recover your marriage. Does she still work with OM? She shouldn't. Do you snoop her email, cell phone, Facebook, etc? You should. 

You should also purchase Surviving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley. Go to Amazon.com. They've got plenty and are a fast ship. You need this quickly. 

It sounds like the two of you are stumbling on in a pre-affair version of your marriage. That won't work. You're going to need to do some serious changing-up to repair your marriage, or you both may be vulnerable to future affairs. You are at the six month point, when the shock begins to wear off and you begin to get seriously pissed and resentful at the injustice of what she has done to you, your marriage and your family. These emotions will poison your marriage if they aren't addressed.


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## the guy

Your girls don't diserve to bear witness to a crappy marriage and you giving them an examble of how unhappy there father in a unhealthy relationship.

It sounds like the both of you swept this under the carpet and now here it is months later your are now comming to term with her adultory.

You have mentioend that she has been more affectionaite, but the anger is stil brewing cause she hasm't given the submission you need. Maybe you feel like she hasn;t affair proofed her marriage and its a matter of time before she does it again.

What are some of the consequences she isn't facing other then you not spending xmas with her?

Maybe its this anger you have in that she hasn't faced any consequences?

Is she still working at the same job, taking the same amout of business trips and still in contact with this coworker? I would be pissed to if my old lady didn't make the changes she needed and face the consequences.

I mean whats more affection got to do with it...I guess in my case i was still getting laid even when she was sleeping around, so to me thats no big favor. Its the GNO that stopped and giving up her toxic friends that ment alot for me...and if it was a coworker on a business trip well my chick would be giving that up to if she wanted to stick around.

In short, I think your still pissed cuz your chick is still doing the same sh!t just more lovey dovey towards you. If the catolist was a business trip and a co work...well those are big triggers and a hard pill to swallow if she is infact continuing as "businees as usual".


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## committedwife

Malcolm38 said:


> She told me that she was sorry and that she wanted to keep it a secret forever, but that the guilt was too much for her to take.


Hogwash. She was doing just dandy with her little secret until you busted her. Guilt, my rear end.


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## the guy

My old lady was going out with toxic friends and picking up guys a bars...so gues what no more toxic friend and GNO at the bars.

Maybe it time your chick quite her job, no more coworkes and businees trips and stay home with the girls. Sure mac & chesse suck and that income she brought was great but is it worth the arriage?


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## the guy

maybe its time to take some of that anger out by exposing the OM...is he married or have a GF? Investigate this POS and find out and expose the affair. Again more consequences.

Is your WW protecting OM identity?


again this all sounds like one big rug sweeping thing that will come back to huant the marriage


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## RWB

Malcom,

It was a few months after learning my wife had been cheating that the hurt and shock transitioned into anger. My MC (30+ years FC) said it generally only occurs once you have processed all the information that you have and start looking at your marriage from the Outside-In (Long-term). 

One word of caution, the affair that most cheaters are caught in is rarely their first.


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## walkonmars

Malcom, you are likely feeling this way because shock has worn off and she is pretending not much happened. Believe me, it wasn't twice. And it would be going on to this very day if you hadn't intercepted the text on the 4th. 

You can truly recover your marriage if you insist she pulls her weight in the recovery. Here are some questions that can help you determine what 'heavy lifting' will be required from her end:

Did you find out if OM is married? 

Is he in a supervisory/executive position?

Was he exposed by your wife at work? Was she? 

Did she confess to her parents? Yours? 

Did her co-workers know/condone/support her affair?

Did she write a NO CONTACT message to him (read and approved by you?)

These are some of the actions (NOT WORDS) that she should have shown to demonstrate the basic parts of remorse. Anything else is a "Whew, glad he got over it!" and will only ensure the demise of the marriage.


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## alte Dame

This was an ongoing affair that you busted. You don't even know if you have the truth of it. The two of you rugswept it, which is great for her, but lousy for you.

For many people, a loss of trust equals a loss of love. I don't think you know what to trust because you don't have the whole truth. I couldn't begin to decide what to do unless I had made every effort to know what exactly my spouse had done.


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## the guy

I found it interesting that it took months for the anger to process, which leads me to believe that the things with regards to heavy lifting weren't even looked at.


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## Malcolm38

Looks like I have some work to do....I'm taking all of this advice in right now. 

To be honest, I DON'T know if there is NC. I assumed there is because of there being nothing on her phone. But that probably is just me being wishful isn't it? 

I wonder if it's unlikely that they quit cold turkey? 

I think I'm going to demand access to her e-mail for starters. 

We'll have to have a long talk about her job as well. 

As odd as this may sound, I'm going to need the details of their times together as well. I wonder how blatant they were with those around them when they were out of town? I wonder how much of an idiot I look like to her co-workers? 

She says that he pursued her and that she fell for the attention. But I wonder how true that is? Did she give him signals? When did the line start getting crossed? Did she know that when she was giving it up to him that she was also ripping my heart out? It probably didn't matter I assume.....Who have I been married to?


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## carmen ohio

Malcolm38 said:


> These are all very good points. Thank you.
> 
> I certainly don't want to give the impression that I don't want to save my family. But honestly I don't think I'm the one that put us in jeopardy to begin with.
> 
> I am angry. Very angry. Not physical violence angry, but angry that what had been a very good marriage has been torn in half by her wanting to have sex with another man.
> 
> She has told me that she loves me very much, but it was like a drug having this guy pay attention to her.
> 
> Hell, it probably was like a drug. I probably would have felt the same way about a woman younger than me paying attention and sexing me up as well. The difference is that I didn't entertain the notion. She did.
> 
> She has apologized. Probably for getting caught, but she did apologize. I guess sometimes that doesn't even happen so perhaps I have that going for me.
> 
> This thing just kind of happened to me over the last month or two where I just have fallen out of love with her. Maybe it's a coping mechanism?
> 
> If it was just the two of us I wouldn't have any issue with filing for divorce tomorrow. But with our daughters involved, that really hurts me to think of not being a daily influence in their lives. *Perhaps I have to just do the best I can over the next few years until they turn 18.*


Dear Malcolm38,

Your anger, properly channeled, is a good thing. If you weren't angry, it would mean either that you didn't care about her and your family or that you lack the testosterone that you need to get through this.

The first thing you must realize is that you are in for a difficult time no matter what you do. If you continue to try to bury the hurt your WW's infidelity has caused you, it will get worse and worse until it eats you up inside. If you try to reconcile with her prematurely and do it ineffectively (as you appear to have done so far), you will not heal properly, she will not learn anything from this and you run the risk that she will cheat on you again and, the second time, it will be even worse for you. If you divorce her, you will have to suffer the pain of breaking up your family. So, what should you do? Here's my advice.

First, don't do anything rash. Instead, think really hard over the next few days whether you still have enough love and respect for your WW to want to save your marriage. You should not feel guilty about your kids if you decide to divorce her. Your kids will be better off in the long run if you are happy with your life and, conversely, they will be worse off if you stay in a crappy marriage for their sake since, eventually, your misery will affect them. If you decide on divorce, then the sooner you let your WW know and start divorce proceedings, the sooner you can both start to heal and build a new lives apart from each other.

If you do decide to try to reconcile with your WW, then your next job is to find out whether your WW is ready to do the hard things she will have to do to save it. Don't assume that she is. The best way to accomplish this is to take charge of the situation and tell her exactly what you need her to do for you. Some suggestions:

(1) She will tell you everything that happened between her and the OM and then, if you ask her to, take a polygraph test to prove that she's told you the whole truth (the reason for asking for a polygraph test is to encourage her to tell you everything now and to see if she is really prepared to share everything with you).

(2) She will write the OM a letter saying that she believes their continuing to have any further contact would jeopardize her marriage and instructing him not to contact her again. She will give you the letter so that you can mail it. She will never contact him again nor respond to any communications from him, and she will tell you of any attempts on the OM's part to contact her. If there is the chance that she will see him again in her work, she will change jobs so as to avoid this.

(3) She will be an open book to you, letting you see all her e-mails and text messages whenever and for as long as you like. She will also stop going on business trips until you give her permission to (if this is not possible given her job then, again, she will get a new job, one that does not involve travel).

(4) Once you begin to regain a degree of trust and respect for her, she will work with you to identify what went wrong in your marriage that may have contributed to her straying (MC should greatly help here).

These are commonly suggested steps to ensure that a WS's infidelity is truly and finally ended so that the reconciliation process can begin. You don't have to ask for all of them and their may be others things YOU need her to do. Just make sure you think about what you need and tell her about all of them. You will likely only get one chance at this.

But if she balks at ANYTHING you ask of her, you must tell her that you will end the marriage if she does not agree. You must be prepared to say this and say it like you mean it (even if you don't). Remember, your goal is to find out if your WW is truly remorseful and, usually, the only way to achieve this is to threaten divorce.

Prepare yourself for this conversation (know exactly what you're going to say). Have it in a place and at a time where and when you both are comfortable (arrange this in advance and tell her that she needs to be prepared to have a serious conversation). When you deliver your message be firm but calm. Don't raise your voice or do anything else that would make her uncomfortable. If she gives you excuses why she shouldn't have to do some of the things you ask, don't argue with her. Simply say something like, "I told you what I want. I'm not forcing you to do anything but instead giving you a chance to work with me to fix our marriage. If you can't or won't do what I ask, I will accept that, but then I don't want to be your husband anymore because I don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone that I don't trust and who is not prepared to do the hard work necessary to have a great marriage."

Check out some of the other stories on this site and elsewhere on the web and you will learn that, for most women, even "good" women, it is only the realization that their marriage is on the line that brings them to their senses. Also, please understand that what most women really want is for their husband to be a stand up kind of guy who leads them gently but firmly while providing them with their basic needs like security, respect and affection. This may be the 21st century but our genetic make up is largely unchanged since the days when human beings literally had to fight for survival. This means that women are attracted most strongly to men who know what they want and go out and get it. It also means that the best way to lose her (now or sometime in the future) is to be whiny, indecisive and fearful. No women worth having wants a husband like that.

BTW, whatever happens between you and your W, you would benefit greatly from checking out Blog | Married Man Sex Life

I hope you find this helpful and, whatever you decide to do, I wish the best for you and your family.


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## 3putt

If it were me (and I do mean _me_) I would get on the phone right now, call my in-laws to apologize for not being there and wish them a Merry Christmas, then inform them of the real reason for not being there for Christmas. You're probably getting made out to be some kind of selfish, entitled jerk for not coming. A bit of truth might do them a little good....and you a lot.


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## old timer

*Malcolm:* take heed of the comments you read here.

They may sting, but you will benefit from much collective experience. 

I hate that you are having to have such a sh*tty Christmas through no fault of your own.

Mine isn't going very well, either, but I pretty much deserve it.

Best of luck to you.


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## the guy

Folks with a good moral compase don't look at the kind of idiot the betrayed looks (even though you feel this way it quite the oppisite, folks with a moral compase look at it as ugly and disgusting.

Most likely she was making her marriage and you look bad to justify any publi affection that may have accured, but for the most part thiing like this need to remain secrete from as many poeple as possible so the affiar can continue to have that exciteing taboo feeling to it.

You sir are not viewed as an idiot.

what sucks is the lies she told to justify her actions against you....shes is the idiot here and make no mistake about that.


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## cledus_snow

looks like there is more heartbreak and anger to come, given that you two were quick to rugsweep.

i doubt you have ALL the information concerning her affair.


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## Wazza

Have you asked her why, when they only did it twice, he was sending that sort of text message?

The longer you leave it. the harder it is to get the truth and that will eat you up.

You need to be honest about your feelings and ask her to be honest about hers. Be prepared that she may not be honest, and determine what is your walk away point. 

I hear you about the kids. I only stayed after my wife's affair because of the children, and we rebuilt over a l-o-n-g time.


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## jim123

Malcolm,

You have not healed nor never will unless you take care of you. You forgave too quickly before. The fact your wife said your actions mean you did not forgive her show that it is all about her. She should not expect forgiveness. She does not have remorse. More than likely she is still in contact with him.

Go see an attorney to get answers. Show your wife it is for real. Time for her to decide. if you just wait out the years, you will be the villian. You will loose your family.

The children need to know and understand. If you feel you need to kick her out then do it.

You do need to let he know how you feel. She needs to know how much she hurt you. You need to take control. You let her get away with it way too easy.

Time to heal and you need to do whatever lets you heal,

Disclose to everyone. Find out if OM is married. If so let his wife know. Make him go on the defensive. Let the employer, family and friends know.


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## snap

the guy said:


> I found it interesting that it took months for the anger to process, which leads me to believe that the things with regards to heavy lifting weren't even looked at.


It looks like a book case of rugsweeping the affair. Resentment in BS builds up until it blows the lid.


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## tom67

Have her take a polygraph test


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## committedwife

Malcolm38 said:


> Looks like I have some work to do....I'm taking all of this advice in right now.
> 
> To be honest, I DON'T know if there is NC. I assumed there is because of there being nothing on her phone. But that probably is just me being wishful isn't it?


Yes. I'm sorry. That's you, being wishful. You need to go into super-snoop drive. VAR in her car, keylogger on her computer.



Malcolm38 said:


> I wonder if it's unlikely that they quit cold turkey?


They usually don't. They usually go underground. 




Malcolm38 said:


> I think I'm going to demand access to her e-mail for starters.


Excellent. How she responds will tell you a lot.




Malcolm38 said:


> We'll have to have a long talk about her job as well.


 Long talk? Why? If she's screwing a guy at her job, that conversation will be one of your shorter ones: she quits. Done. Two words.




Malcolm38 said:


> As odd as this may sound, I'm going to need the details of their times together as well. I wonder how blatant they were with those around them when they were out of town? I wonder how much of an idiot I look like to her co-workers?


 This is totally normal - not odd at ALL. Get every detail you need. 



Malcolm38 said:


> She says that he pursued her and that she fell for the attention.


 Ah, wah wah. She was such a widdle innocent in the Big City and the Big Bad Wolf was lurking, and then... UM...NO. She's a big girl. He might have given her the eye, but she must have given it back, yes? That had to happen, or there wouldn't have been a connection. Tell her to drop the Pollyanna crap. It's not going to fly.


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## Will_Kane

Malcolm38 said:


> Looks like I have some work to do....I'm taking all of this advice in right now.
> 
> To be honest, *I DON'T know if there is NC*. I assumed there is because of there being nothing on her phone. But *that probably is just me being wishful *isn't it?
> 
> I wonder if it's unlikely that they quit cold turkey?
> 
> I think *I'm going to demand access to her e-mail *for starters.
> 
> *We'll have to have a long talk about her job as well.*
> 
> As odd as this may sound, *I'm going to need the details of their times together as well*. I wonder how blatant they were with those around them when they were out of town? I wonder how much of an idiot I look like to her co-workers?
> 
> She says that he pursued her and that she fell for the attention. But I wonder how true that is? *Did she give him signals?* When did the line start getting crossed? Did she know that when she was giving it up to him that she was also ripping my heart out? It probably didn't matter I assume.....Who have I been married to?


You are on the right track here. Look at carmen ohio's post and answer walkonmars' questions.

Ask her to tell you about other man, his name, where he lives. Find out if he is married or not and ask whether or not his wife/girlfriend knows. Your wife is definitely going to know all about this guy, she didn't just drop her drawers without finding all this out. Find out all of other man's email accounts and phone numbers, including his home number. Do this while asking about the other details of the affair. Do not give any indication you are going to tell his wife about it, just do it. Call her up and let her know what you know, ask for her help in making sure the affair is over and stays over, tell her you are sorry but you thought she deserved the truth.

For all you know, other man could have transferred to your wife's office or could be traveling to your city. 250 miles is a drive of four hours, he could come in on a weekend once a month. How would you know? He probably knows what color under pants your wife wears every day.

Definitely you DO NOT have the whole truth. They probably have carried on for much longer than your wife has let on, had more sex than your wife let on, and still are in contact at work. Her story has a lot missing from it. How it started. Who said what to whom. When it was first said. Was the meeting at the conference pre-arranged? She should write down all these details, a timeline of the affair, so later on neither of you will "mis-remember" what she said or what you heard she did. If the story does not make sense, it probably is a lie. Right now, she has given you an answer like you give your kids when they ask about Santa Claus or where babies come from. Enough to satisfy you, but it doesn't really have enough details to make sense. Ask her how she ended it with other man, what was said, and why would he stop bothering her now if he never did before.

Did they use a condom? Has your wife been tested for STDs?

Find out if she EVER talks to him on her personal accounts or her work accounts, or if he ever comes to visit in your city for work.

Tell her the truth. The affair is hitting you very hard right now, kind of like you were in shock and now are coming out of it. You don't trust her and you want to rebuild your trust so you can stay married. In order for that to happen, she has to let you look at all her communications, give you access and passwords to everything, and not delete anything.

Can you look at her call logs for her phone? If so, do it now and see if she has been in contact via phone.

Buy a voice-activated recorder and some heavy-duty velcro and place it under the seat of her car. You should find out if she still is in contact with the guy within a week. Or maybe you will get the truth if she talks to any toxic confidants inside or outside of work about her affair and you.

Ask her to handwrite a no contact letter to the other man. The letter should state how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior and for risking losing you, and that other man should never try to contact her again or she will file harassment charges both with human resources and with the police. She then gives the letter for you to mail to him. The letter contains no terms of endearment, no "dear," no "I'm sorry it turned out this way," it begins with other man's name and it ends with "signed" and your wife's name and it contains just the information here, no more, no less.

Ask her to start looking for a new job. You are never going to be able to re-establish trust while they work for the same company.

If you want to, ask her to give you any clothing she wore for the other man during her trysts and then you can destroy it. Shoes and jewelry included. She doesn't get to replace any of it.

Honestly, I can't believe you made it as long as you did without this eating you up inside.

Cheaters are liars. Your wife is a cheater. That means your wife is a liar. Don't believe anything she says unless it is backed up by actions. If you get the sense that she ended it with this guy, that is a good thing, maybe she did, but you really can't be sure just because she said so.

Going through life monitoring and spying on your wife is no way to live. You do it for a while to regain trust and, as you find nothing, you do it less and less until some day months or years from now you rarely do it at all. But right now you need to do it to regain trust.


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## warlock07

Malcolm38 said:


> Looks like I have some work to do....I'm taking all of this advice in right now.
> 
> To be honest, I DON'T know if there is NC. I assumed there is because of there being nothing on her phone. But that probably is just me being wishful isn't it?
> 
> I wonder if it's unlikely that they quit cold turkey?
> 
> I think I'm going to demand access to her e-mail for starters.
> 
> We'll have to have a long talk about her job as well.
> 
> As odd as this may sound, I'm going to need the details of their times together as well. I wonder how blatant they were with those around them when they were out of town? I wonder how much of an idiot I look like to her co-workers?
> 
> She says that he pursued her and that she fell for the attention. But I wonder how true that is? Did she give him signals? When did the line start getting crossed? Did she know that when she was giving it up to him that she was also ripping my heart out? It probably didn't matter I assume.....Who have I been married to?


If you are going to do it, don't ask her. Get the password by some other means abd check it on your own. 
How did you verify it was just a couple of ONS ? You made a big mistake. She fed you a bunch of bullsh!t and you ate it up. You need to verify her without her knowing about it. She lost the privilege when she got caught.. Most affairs go underground when they get caught..So you need to verify by your own means!! Cannot emphasize enough on how important that is

Also, check her phone records. Check her text records. What phone does she have ?


----------



## jameskimp

You don't love her now anymore and the only reason you are staying for is the kids? 

Don't.

The kids would be much better off living in separate homes part of the time than in a marriage full of resentment and bitterness. If you have no more feelings for your wife, then don't ever justify staying. 

Life's too short for that. Don't continue to waste your life.


----------



## dogman

Sorry your here Malcolm. 

You let her off too easy.

When that happens there's no internal change in the person who cheated, therefore it's likely that it either continued or it will happen again. 

She is in danger of doing this guy whenever she has an opportunity. Especially if she feels resentment from you, she will justify doing it in her mind.

Covertly investigate, but also be honest about your unforgiveness.

Think of it like a wound that you let close without washing it first. It seemed fine but later it gets infected and can kill you. 
Now you have to open it up again and wash it out, you might even have to carve out some ruined flesh. This is the first step toward healing properly.

The success of all this hinges on the fact that she is no longer in contact with him. 
Her job is a huge gray area, you may not be able to know for sure while she works there.

Good luck, we all want to see you fix this and end up in a better, safer place.


----------



## Shaggy

I doubt you have the full truth of the affair even now. If it was only two times, why was he still sending her texts like that?


1. Get his name and phone number.
2. find out if he is married or has a girl friend - without telling your wife so she can't warn him - you need to contact her and tell her she's being cheated on by the OM.
3. Your wife has to leave the job. For all you know he's texting her and emailing and phoning her at work even now. He could also easily be travelling in a couple times a month. You say he's 250 miles away, yet it didn't stop them hooking up a second time did it?

4. Full transparency from her - though since they work at the same company they could easiily bee continuing the affair on company phones, email and computers.

5. She gets an STD test - these things can hide for a long while - she and you both need testing

6. No more conferences. Ever for her.

7. Polygraph. They are yes-no questions. Is this the first guy? Has she had sex with him more than 2 times, more than 5 more than 10. Did she have sex with him are you confronted her?



Now for you - I 100% disagree with the earlier posters who suggested you are the one ending the family and marriage. YOU ARE NOT. She ended the marriage when she cheated. After that you have a totally valid right to choose if you will take her back or not. What I read is that your tried to take her back, and you tried for 6 months, but her choosing to cheat has broken your love and respect for her down to nothing. That having given it 6 months of a try, you still don't trust her, and you no longer see her as wife material.

She cheated. She broke your family and her vows to you. You do not have to forgive her or forget. You can if you want extend to her a chance to earn the chance to be your wife again in a new marriage - but she doen't just get that chance with no work on her part. Her just stopping having sex with another man, isn't enough. She actually has to return to the marriage and to put a huge amount of effort into you, and into proving to you she values you and being married to you, that and does that through actions and effort.

So far she may or may not have stopping having contact with the guy - you don't know for sure.

So far she may or may not have stopped having sex with the guy - you don't know for sure

What if anything has she done effort wise, beyond a few tears and words - to show she values the marriage and you?


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

She broke the marriage when she banged someone on your back but you tried six months to gather the pieces of the broken marriage and keep it together but you didnt get any help from her, the help needed like Complete honesty, transparency, NC and heavy lifting and begging on her knees for your forgiveness. you can walk away with your head held high for putting the effort in salvaging your marriage.

Call her parents and inform them why you didnt went with her.

Are you sure that the A ended? I think she is still in an ongoing A.

Its time for you to have an STD, check up, Key logger, VAR and a GPS on her car. Get the evidence you needed with informing her. Collect the ware abouts about the OM.


----------



## mahike

Malcom Sorry you are here. I know I am jumping in late but what has happened is that you did not deal with this when you found out. You and your WS swept it under the rug.

Most A's do not die out like nothing happened. They are in a fog and the guy is an addiction. You need to do the keylogger, var thing for awhile and make sure it is really dead

Also this other guy I bet has a wife. Contact her and expose th A. She deserves the right to know she is married to a A hole.

Your wife needs to answer any and all questions you have. The other guy does he work with her? If yes. She needs to quit her job and right now

You both need to get inton MC and right away. Did your wife get checked for STD's? no? Tell her to get it done and bring you the results.

The anger needs to be dealt with and not with your WS or the kids. Exercise. I went to the batting cages a great deal. The first time my hands were raw when I came home.

Deal with this stuff or it is going to get worse.


----------



## Saki

Hi Malcolm,

I wanted to post a couple things.

First, the way you are feeling right now is normal. It's not all over the map nor is it unusual nor is it out of line. I've suffered thru both physical affairs and emotional affairs from my wife, and it took me over 5 years to really figure some of this stuff out. Even your desire to know the details is very very common.

Even to this day, (7years out from the physical affair) my thoughts can wander to the memories of her actions and I just feel dead inside toward my wife for a short time. Many have said that the pain caused by infidelity is the worst pain you can endure (and this has been said by people who have lost their children....to put that in perspective).

The main reason I am posting is to address your comments towards anger.

Anger is a reaction. It is not a feeling. It is a secondary reaction to a primary emotion.

I strongly suggest you spend some time exploring how this situation makes you feel. For me, sitting down and journeling helps. A pencil and a piece of paper. Just explore how you feel. To jumpstart you, I might suggest inferior, embarrassed, not cared about, etc. 

My experience with journeling was that the feelings became very intense, and it was important to allow that to happen instead of trying to repress it. Embrace the emotion and let it wash over you. Once I actually felt through my feelings, I was about to accept them and learn to live with them. 

This process allows you to eliminate the reaction (anger) to the feelings. It also allows you to clearly see the actual problems (the feelings) not the symptoms (the anger). 

You can then start to develop ways to actually deal with the problem, instead of always dealing with the reaction and the problems the reaction causes.

Also, christmas is always very difficult for me and I'm sure other betrayed spouses. Everything about xmas says "happy family" but we know all too well that is not really the case.


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## TDSC60

Really sorry you are in this situation.

Nothing kills the love and respect for a spouse quicker than an affair.

I travel for work and attend several conferences a year. I have seen these A-holes in action. I can tell you that they know fairly quickly when the woman is interested. If she is not interested, then they move on to the next likely target. After all, they only have a week or so to get them in bed.

Your wife had to have shown interest in the OM from first contact and she had to have encouraged it or he would have moved on to his next target.

Also how did they connect for sex after the conference if he is 250 miles away? Did he travel to your town of did she meet him half way?

You still do not know the whole truth. 

If you have decided that you want a divorce, then don't put yourself through the pain of dragging the truth out of her. It is not worth it. Just file and move on.


----------



## Wazza

TDSC60 said:


> Really sorry you are in this situation.
> You still do not know the whole truth.
> 
> If you have decided that you want a divorce, then don't put yourself through the pain of dragging the truth out of her. It is not worth it. Just file and move on.


Agree.


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## Ostera

I rug swept (didn't know the term at the time) and it happened again, and again, and again... 

I am still dealing with that. My WW left me while I was at work. She walked out just like she said she would in the beginning if she didn't get her way. 

It appears your marriage may be salvagable. But you really need to ask like another poster asked, If it was only two times, then why the text? You know that she was texting him. 

What is it in your marriage that lacks that she gets from this guy? It has to be more than just 'attention."


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## alte Dame

Ostera said:


> But you really need to ask like another poster asked, If it was only two times, then why the text? You know that she was texting him.


^^^ This is what was so noticeable in your post. Her story doesn't add up.


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## Summer4744

Don't ask for her email just hack into her computer.

If you demand it she will just delete emails and get a new one. You don't want her to go underground.

You should also put up a couple VAR's.


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## Malcolm38

Thank you to everyone for their suggestions and comments. It is all very much appreciated. 

The family returned yesterday, and I was so happy to see the girls again. Christmas was very difficult without them. 

My wife and I only spoke briefly during the day as I told her that I didn't want to really talk about it until we had time to sit down and actually talk. I took the girls out shopping and spent the day with them. 

Last night I sat the wife down and told her that I needed to know everything. She hesitated a bit, but I said that if we weren't to get divorced in 2013 she had to lay it on the line right now. Oddly enough 2 times was actually over a year. 10 times total. I had her write out the dates for me. 

The OM is located 250 miles away, but is in town about once a month. I asked her why she was willing to be an escort to a guy 4 hours away once a month when she had a husband at home. Didn't get a straight answer to that, not that I was expecting one. 

I told her I needed her to write down her passwords for her e-mail accounts (work and home). She said that was an invasion of her privacy. I mentioned that in order for the marriage to work her privacy was secondary. She was angry at that point and said that I didn't even want to try to work things out and that I was punishing her. 

Reading this forum the last few days I sort of anticipated this happening. I'm not particularly bright obviously, but I am perceptive. So I had already booked a hotel room nearby (about 6 blocks away) and told her she was going to have to stay there for a while to think about if she was serious about saving our marriage. 

She was really upset and was yelling at me about kicking her out onto the street, and that I didn't love her. I told her that it's only BECAUSE I love her that I'm doing this. If I didn't I would just file tomorrow. 

So she has until Sunday morning to let me know if she will be giving me the passwords and full name of her lover, and his marital status. She will also have to write a NC letter that is e-mailed in front of me. Any other additional measures I need to have done at the time will be taken then as well. If her answer is no then we can start the divorce process next week as the New Year starts. 

I love her, but I won't live like this. It's me or it's him. And if it's me, she has to prove it. If it's him, I will immediately go into protective mode to legally obtain custody of my children. 

This probably comes off as "orderly" as I've written it, but honestly I've had about 10 panic attacks today and felt like calling about 20 times telling her to come home. I'm NOT that strong at all, but I think I bluffed it well. 

My head is spinning, but I'm thinking I'm doing the best I can considering the situation. 

Thanks for all of your helpful advice. I haven't told anyone about this except for my brother and parents. I have a feeling this will be known to many more people next week either way, and that makes me feel embarrassed and ill. But it's like the only way I can get this poison she injected into our lives out of the way is to finally face it.


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## Acabado

I can't stress enought how much you need to be firm about your boundaires:
- NC letter
- Complete transparence from now on. No such a things as privacy in marriage.
- Full disclosure, complete honesty. She will answer your questions with no limitations.

Then she needs to find out why she did this and fix whatever it's needed, to face the mirror, educate herself with books, getting IC... whatever.
Then tell her she's the one to fix this, she needs to get advice. There're books, forums, MCs... *She seek help to fix what she broke*. You will be there because you love her and want the marriage to work but the ball in her court.
Tell her you can't ignore the big elephant and hide the trash under the carpet anymore.


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## walkonmars

You have nothing to be embarrased about. She does.

I'm not encouraged for your marriage by her reaction/responses.

I'm afraid the affair is ongoing. If it was over she would be tripping over herself to give you the passwords. I think she is sitting in the hotel room scrubbing out incriminating footprints. She probably warned OM to expect a letter from her.

I know your emotions are in turmoil and you are itching to eat up any breadcrumbs she provides. 

It may be the affair is over but don't let her sweep this under the rug. Be prepared (especially if she is still cheating) to put some blame on you or to guilt you. Don't pay any attention to that. Except to note that such language is what cheaters use instinctively.

You can save your marriage but she has to come clean, completely detach - including getting a new job - from this OM.

You do need to expose the OM at work especially if he is in a supervisory/executive position.


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## 3putt

Well done so far, but just a tip on how to handle one little point.



Malcolm38 said:


> I told her I needed her to write down her passwords for her e-mail accounts (work and home). She said that was an invasion of her privacy. I mentioned that in order for the marriage to work her privacy was secondary.


The next time she brings that up, tell her she is welcome to all the privacy in the world when it's time to go and use the bathroom. When it comes to not having full disclosure about email accounts, passwords, etc., that's not privacy, but secrecy, and secrecy has NO place in a marriage. Then you willingly offer up all your passwords and whatnot as a gesture of meaning what you say.


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## Chaparral

So she has been gone for a day ? Has she not contacted you since yesterday?


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## committedwife

Malcolm38 said:


> She was really upset and was yelling at me about kicking her out onto the street, and that I didn't love her.


She's screwing around on you, and has the audacity to be tweaked because you've booked a hotel room for her?? That isn't exactly kicking her out onto the street. 

You don't love her?? That's an obvious manipulation on her part. Glad to see you didn't fold for any of this crap. 

You're doing well - keep going!


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## life101

You are doing well. Stay strong. Never become a doormat. 
People change and everyone deserves second chances. Nevertheless, remember that we all deserve better than cheaters and liars, no matter how hard it is to find a person good at heart. We all falter sometimes, but a decent human being will learn from mistakes and eleveate oneself to become a better person.


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## Chaparral

Also, remind her that she broke her vows and you are trying to fix things while she has lied and is taking the om's side and protecting him instead of her family.


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## Chaparral

You need to put a var in her car asap. You need to make sure she has stopped contact. Can you check her phone, texts usage online?


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## walkonmars

Did she admit to "10" rather than "2"? Over a year rather than from this spring?

Cheaters mininimize so if she admits to ten you can be sure its way more - not that its that important. One time is one too many. The important part is the deception and gaslighting. 

Her defense is weak (you are an unforgiving callous bas*trd). Shes trying to press your guilt button and trying to confuse you.


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## Chaparral

That she left is a bad sign. Can you tell if she has contacted him?


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## keko

How hard is it for someone to open up a new email account and keep it a secret?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loveisforever

The most important preparationrepare for divorce! Book an appointment with a divorce lawyer.

To give your kids a whole family is just an excuse of your weakness. False R only prolong the pains of your family, including your kids.

From what you said until now, your wife is in defiance and rug-sweeping modes. I guess you have been weak to her in your marriage. She did not expect you have the guts to corner her, ie, she used to think you are not a MAN! 

Until now, she is heading to the gate of DIVORCE. Your marriage is dead.

Will she want to change herself and woo you for a new marriage? That is tough for her to do. Prepare for the worst.


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## Will_Kane

So 2 times she had sex with him was from over a year ago?

She had sex with him 10 times total, usually about once a month when he comes to town?

And the affair is ongoing?

And she refuses (so far) to give up her "privacy"?

The refusal to give up "privacy" means the affair is ongoing. Really, when you are caught screwing another guy and the affair already is over and you want to stay married and your husband asks you for your passwords, you hand them over lickety split. You don't need any time to think about it. So this is a very bad sign.

What it means is that she is in love with other man, she speaks to him constantly at work, he does, in fact, know what color her underpants are every day, and she screws him whenever he comes to town.

Prepare for this scenario.

Very unlikely you got the whole truth of the affair on her first attempt. Even spouses who confess without being caught lie a lot the first time they tell the story. You may never find out the whole truth, but you should at least get enough that it makes sense to you. Right now, it does not. And these cheaters can't tell the truth the first time or second time out of the box even if their life depended on it. It's like a law of nature. You had a better chance of winning the lottery than you did of getting the full truth.

Why would she be happy to be an escort to a guy who lives 250 miles away and comes to town once a month? You got no coherent answer to that one. That's because she's withholding some major stuff from you. Her story doesn't make sense, therefore, it's probably a lie. She's probably in contact with him every day, at least at work, but I suspect at home also (can she log into her work email from home?).

What this means is you have a tough battle ahead of you.

I'm not trying to be mean, but you really swept her whole affair right under the rug. You didn't even ask her if she still was in contact with the guy. She told you he lives 250 miles away, as if cars don't exist and he would never drive that far to get some. And you didn't ask where he lives or verify it. I wouldn't be surprised if he lived three blocks away and works with your wife every day. Would you know it if he did?

The point I'm trying to make is BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS UNLESS IT IS BACKED UP BY HER ACTIONS OR YOU CAN CONFIRM IT INDEPENDENTLY. Like other man's address.

Another point I would like to make is that by accepting such a half-assed story from your wife and then not asking any questions, not even asking if the affair was over, your wife probably feels she can push you around, that you need her WAY more than she needs you. She already is empowered by lover boy's interest in her. Add to that how you just meekly accepted her affair and gave her just about zero consequences. She may not believe you are going to file for divorce until you actually do it; she may push this to the limit just because she thinks you will cave.

If she is like many other cake-eating cheaters, she will make alternate plans to stay in touch with the other man (she's probably working on it as I type this), get a burner phone, use a friend's phone, get a secret email account, use some type of app that shows up only as browser usage, not as calls or texts on a phone bill. Then she will agree to your terms, hand over passwords to all devices and accounts you know about, and never use them to communicate with other man again. I suggest you buy a voice-activated recorder and some heavy-duty velcro and place it under the seat of her car. After she promises to end contact and give you all passwords and she is using her burner phone, this is how you will find out. It won't take more than a week.

If she wanted other man, she would have left you for him already. She likes having a stable family life and getting the attention and sex from him also. Feeds her ego, makes her the center of attention, she feels so special that two men both adore her.


----------



## jim123

Time to get strong. You have to love yourself first. She has no problem loving her self. Think of what she says, "You have not forgiven her", "You do not love her". Where do you fit in. The question is her love. Your problem is you have rug swept this. Take strong action now. There is a big reason she wants her privacy. You know what it is. You will have to go the distance.

Work on yourself. Deal from a position of strength. Get mad. Get really angry. You deserve better than this. 

File the D and start to move on. If it works out latter, you can stop. R only if you really want to.


----------



## Shaggy

You know she is right now deleting all the emails and opening new email accounts to talk with him.

Can you look at her cell records online?

I'm sorry to say this, but she s still protecting the affair, her secrecy to have the affair and the OM. She is still having the affair. There is a very high chance he s driving down to be with her right now.

She has chosen the OM.

Her getting mad that you might actually be punishing her for cheating is hilarious and sad at once. Clearly there is no remorse and only contempt for you on her.


----------



## Wazza

Shaggy said:


> You know she is right now deleting all the emails and opening new email accounts to talk with him.
> 
> Can you look at her cell records online?
> 
> I'm sorry to say this, but she s still protecting the affair, her secrecy to have the affair and the OM. She is still having the affair. There is a very high chance he s driving down to be with her right now.
> 
> She has chosen the OM.
> 
> Her getting mad that you might actually be punishing her for cheating is hilarious and sad at once. Clearly there is no remorse and only contempt for you on her.


Not guaranteed, but not unlikely either.

If you want to reconcile, you need to work out how you will catch her if she is lying to you, because it is likely she will. 

Doesn't mean you can't come back, but she needs to fight for it too. And sadly, you need to expect her to lie.

My wife's affair was 22 years ago, and we are great now, but I have been exactly where you are, and your wife has not yet shown any remorse. That's kind of to be expected. She is in love or lust with someone else and you can't just switch that off. It took my wife a long time.

Be strong, don't take any nonsense. I actually think you handled that conversation really well. There is nothing I would suggest you could have done better.


----------



## Malaise

She was indignant about losing her 'privacy' because she wants to continue the affair. If she was truly remoresful, and wanted both you and the marriage, she would have agreed to anything and done anything to reconcile.

It seems that you are second, and not a close second at that, to OM. Her respect for you is nil.

And how much self respect does she have if she is willing to be a once a month booty call for this guy. She must know that she herself is little to him if this is all he'll give.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

She have to find out and explain to you why she was ready to be an escort for someone.

Dont allow her to manipulate you with her BS. Stay strong and get ready to file on Monday.

By the way she may be busy deleting her mails.


----------



## JCD

My wife drew a line in the sand. I told her no. She...held off but kept pressing. However, it was only a EA at best, not a PA at all.

So a couple months later, I agreed to NC. It's PAINFUL to lose someone like that. I think that the pain of not seeing the kids for however long will help shake her out of that.

There are websites which can help you find out the names of people's cell phones if you still have it. Give that a try.

So there will be resistance but show persistance.


----------



## hookares

If they lie about one time, they'll lie about them all.
My ex was cheating on the guy she "loved" less than six months after we split. That was three or four guys ago.
It's what cheaters do.


----------



## theroad

Malcolm38 said:


> Thank you to everyone for their suggestions and comments. It is all very much appreciated.
> 
> The family returned yesterday, and I was so happy to see the girls again. Christmas was very difficult without them.
> 
> My wife and I only spoke briefly during the day as I told her that I didn't want to really talk about it until we had time to sit down and actually talk. I took the girls out shopping and spent the day with them.
> 
> Last night I sat the wife down and told her that I needed to know everything. She hesitated a bit, but I said that if we weren't to get divorced in 2013 she had to lay it on the line right now. Oddly enough 2 times was actually over a year. 10 times total. I had her write out the dates for me.
> 
> The OM is located 250 miles away, but is in town about once a month. I asked her why she was willing to be an escort to a guy 4 hours away once a month when she had a husband at home. Didn't get a straight answer to that, not that I was expecting one.
> 
> I told her I needed her to write down her passwords for her e-mail accounts (work and home). She said that was an invasion of her privacy. I mentioned that in order for the marriage to work her privacy was secondary. She was angry at that point and said that I didn't even want to try to work things out and that I was punishing her.
> 
> Reading this forum the last few days I sort of anticipated this happening. I'm not particularly bright obviously, but I am perceptive. So I had already booked a hotel room nearby (about 6 blocks away) and told her she was going to have to stay there for a while to think about if she was serious about saving our marriage.
> 
> She was really upset and was yelling at me about kicking her out onto the street, and that I didn't love her. I told her that it's only BECAUSE I love her that I'm doing this. If I didn't I would just file tomorrow.
> 
> So she has until Sunday morning to let me know if she will be giving me the passwords and full name of her lover, and his marital status. She will also have to write a NC letter that is e-mailed in front of me. Any other additional measures I need to have done at the time will be taken then as well. If her answer is no then we can start the divorce process next week as the New Year starts.
> 
> I love her, but I won't live like this. It's me or it's him. And if it's me, she has to prove it. If it's him, I will immediately go into protective mode to legally obtain custody of my children.
> 
> This probably comes off as "orderly" as I've written it, but honestly I've had about 10 panic attacks today and felt like calling about 20 times telling her to come home. I'm NOT that strong at all, but I think I bluffed it well.
> 
> My head is spinning, but I'm thinking I'm doing the best I can considering the situation.
> 
> Thanks for all of your helpful advice. I haven't told anyone about this except for my brother and parents. I have a feeling this will be known to many more people next week either way, and that makes me feel embarrassed and ill. But it's like the only way I can get this poison she injected into our lives out of the way is to finally face it.


You have set resonable and fair boundaries. Do not back down.


----------



## Chaparral

I know its really hrd to take. It is even harder to believe what a wayward wife will try and pull to cover her tracks and manipulate you . Go to doccool.com and study your opponet in this.

Then you can put into place the tools you need to nullify her actions.


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## Chaparral

You need to get with your MD for a little help dealing with this ultimate stress.

Also find a counselor that is experienced with infidelity AND PTSD. 
the PTSD is most important. Also, start checking out counselors for your kids. This is a mess but can be handled if done right.

Prayers and good luck to your family
Chap


----------



## AlphaHalf

She has too much time to delete and cover over things you don't know about. She is also contacting the OM and telling him whats going on. You should force her to tell you his name right away.


----------



## dogman

Malcolm, it's just my opinion but you should stay away from any meds for anxiety or depression right now. You do not want to be eay going or unemotional right now. If you decide to R then maybe but right now it is to you benefit to be pis sed off.

Hang in there you're doing great.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Malcolm38 said:


> I told her I needed her to write down her passwords for her e-mail accounts (work and home). She said that was an invasion of her privacy. I mentioned that in order for the marriage to work her privacy was secondary.


Yup, we you are married you don't get to keep secrets. This of course means she has something to hide. 



> She was angry at that point and said that I didn't even want to try to work things out and that I was punishing her.


She doesn't want to work things out, how is stopping her A punishing her and not working on the M?


That single paragraph said everything about where she is mentally, still deep in the affair.

You did good kicking her out and you have to continue to play hard ball with her because she does NOT want to end the A right now. It’s literally going to take months before she is over it enough to care about the M more than the A. Right now she is afraid of losing the OM more than you so she is more drawn to him right now.

You are going to have to step things up a notch. Odds are she is going to wise up and be temporally compliant in order to pacify you and take the A underground. She isn’t going to truly R overnight so don’t trust her if she suddenly acts like she is willing to R 100%. Your goal is to make her beg for you to give her another chance which means you have to make it hard for her to R (she has to work for it). 

If you file for a D that may help wake her up to what she is going to lose and make you more attractive because then she will be more worried about losing you than the OM.

At the same time you need to be asking yourself every day if this is worth it. Do you really want her back after what she has become? Years from now this is still going to bother you and now that she has crossed that line it would be easier for her to do it again down the road. This wasn’t an exit affair she had because the M sucked; this was for pure sexual gratification. I have a hard time advising R in these situations.


----------



## Malcolm38

We have spoke a number of times over the past few days and had dinner Friday evening. 

She was apologetic, and said that she would go into No Contract with the OM and that she wanted her family back. She also wanted to to to MC and look into why she did the thing she did. 

Friday night I saw her send a NC letter via e-mail to her boyfriend. 

I let her come back home Saturday, and we were going to make a MC appointment at the beginning of the year. She agreed to let me know here passwords and that she wanted a "new start" and to for us to know "everything" about each other. 

Yesterday evening we were watching a movie upstairs in our bedroom and the girls were downstairs. After about an hour her phone rings and she starts talking, then goes into the bathroom to talk. It was a lot of "Yes" "No" "We'll see" "Not now", etc. Obviously my red light goes on. 

She comes out and I ask her who the hell that was. She then told me that she had called him earlier in the day because she wanted to see if we was okay. He was just calling her back and they were "ending it" formally with "no hard feelings". 

I told her that I think she's actually given him a lot of hard feelings. She looked hurt that I dared make a joke about her wounded friendship. 

I asked her what part of NO CONTACT was hardest to understand? She tried to give me a hug and I told her not to ******* touch me. 

I told the girls that Dad had to leave for a while and I left for the night and stayed with my brother and crashed on his sofa. She called me about 30 times since I left, but I haven't talked to her at all. She came over this afternoon but I told my brother to just get rid of her. He did. 

I will call home tonight to talk to my daughters and to let them know that Dad will be home soon, but not right now.


----------



## walkonmars

Wow. 
I think a lot of us knew it. And you probably did too. 
She isn't going to give him up easy. She fell hard for this azshole. 

Did she give you his name? contact info? Is he married? 

If you want to continue with this for the sake of your daughters (and staying for the kids as an excuse is not good for them in the long run) then expose him to his wife. I'm sure he has one. 

Expose him to his job. Your wife quits tomorrow and finds another job by next week. Even then you're going to have to keep your 'guard' up. 

Hope you like playing 'prison warden' because that's what it's going to take for at least the next few months.


----------



## tom67

Get back in your house and kick her out again.


----------



## Malaise

Malcolm38 said:


> We have spoke a number of times over the past few days and had dinner Friday evening.
> 
> She was apologetic, and said that she would go into No Contract with the OM and that she wanted her family back. She also wanted to to to MC and look into why she did the thing she did.
> 
> Friday night I saw her send a NC letter via e-mail to her boyfriend.
> 
> I let her come back home Saturday, and we were going to make a MC appointment at the beginning of the year. She agreed to let me know here passwords and that she wanted a "new start" and to for us to know "everything" about each other.
> 
> Yesterday evening we were watching a movie upstairs in our bedroom and the girls were downstairs. After about an hour her phone rings and she starts talking, then goes into the bathroom to talk. It was a lot of "Yes" "No" "We'll see" "Not now", etc. Obviously my red light goes on.
> 
> She comes out and I ask her who the hell that was. She then told me that she had called him earlier in the day because she wanted to see if we was okay. He was just calling her back and they were "ending it" formally with "no hard feelings".
> 
> I told her that I think she's actually given him a lot of hard feelings. She looked hurt that I dared make a joke about her wounded friendship.
> 
> I asked her what part of NO CONTACT was hardest to understand? She tried to give me a hug and I told her not to ******* touch me.
> 
> I told the girls that Dad had to leave for a while and I left for the night and stayed with my brother and crashed on his sofa. She called me about 30 times since I left, but I haven't talked to her at all. She came over this afternoon but I told my brother to just get rid of her. He did.
> 
> I will call home tonight to talk to my daughters and to let them know that Dad will be home soon, but not right now.


Obviously she's not on board with R no matter what she may say. Her refusal to NC, giving such a flimsy excuse shows that her heart is not in it.

Unless she is a total moron and truly doesn't know what NC is.


----------



## the guy

I don't understand what "not now" mean??????

If "not now" then when?

She is no were near want to keep her family....she phucking cake eating.

If she really want her family the phone would have been turned off..in stead she answered it....kick her out!


----------



## 3putt

Malcolm38 said:


> After about an hour her phone rings and she starts talking, then goes into the bathroom to talk. It was a lot of "Yes" "No" *"We'll see" "Not now"*, etc.


These are not the words of someone who has any intentions of ending anything.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> These are not the words of someone who has any intentions of ending anything.


Did you find out info on him out him at his workplace and his wife.


----------



## Malcolm38

I have his full name and he is single. 

Doesn't mean I couldn't send a letter to his boss about how he is screwing his co-worker in another office. 

Will that mean anything? Will it end up costing my wife her job? 

At this point I don't care. I'm going to do it.


----------



## walkonmars

Malcolm38 said:


> ... It was a lot of "Yes" "No" "We'll see" "Not now", etc. Obviously my red light goes on.


*Well her "word of honor" means as much as her marriage vows. *
*I think you have a good idea of what he asked:
Him: Did you try to call me earlier? (her: yes)
Him: Did you mean everything in the email? (her: No)
Him: Can we still see each other every once in a while? (We'll see)
Can you send me a picture to be sure you're okay? (not now)
I'm not sure what other innocent things they could have said. *



Malcolm38 said:


> .... She then told me that she had called him earlier in the day because she wanted to see if we was okay.


*Awwww isn't she sweet? Such treachery. How much time passed between her official NC promise and the phone call? If it was more than an hour I'd be surprised and impressed. *




Malcolm38 said:


> ... He was just calling her back and they were "ending it" formally with "no hard feelings".


*Gawd - the gall. *




Malcolm38 said:


> ... I asked her what part of NO CONTACT was hardest to understand? She tried to give me a hug and I told her not to ******* touch me.
> *She has a good job right? She isn't mentally deficient right? *


Don't leave your house again. She can sleep in the basement or go to her relatives - don't care how far away they are. In fact, the farther the better.


----------



## 3putt

Malcolm38 said:


> I have his full name and he is single.
> 
> Doesn't mean I couldn't send a letter to his boss about how he is screwing his co-worker in another office.
> 
> Will that mean anything? Will it end up costing my wife her job?
> 
> At this point I don't care. I'm going to do it.


Yep, this could very easily cost both of them their jobs. But you need to do this the right way. Don't go off half ****ed and just send a letter to his boss. If the boss likes him, that letter just might find it's way into the Z-file to protect him. Been done before.

How large is this company?


----------



## bfree

Malcolm38 said:


> I have his full name and he is single.
> 
> Doesn't mean I couldn't send a letter to his boss about how he is screwing his co-worker in another office.
> 
> Will that mean anything? Will it end up costing my wife her job?
> 
> At this point I don't care. I'm going to do it.


NC didn't hold up because you didn't blow this sh!t up. Not sure shy not or what is holding you back. Nobody ever "niced" anyone out of an affair.


----------



## walkonmars

If he's been making bogus trips to your town for the purpose of "seeing" your wife, getting a hotel room, room service, etc and putting it on expense reports that sh1t isn't going to go well with his office. 

Send a letter or go directly to the HR at either office. And tell them this guy has been making trips to your town to have sex with your wife. Tell them this has put a strain on your marriage and it may not survive. 

Ask them if you need to have a lawyer request they investigate the OMs expense reports when he visits your town to see if there are hotel receipts, etc included. Ask for a copy of the report. 

You can shake this guy up. He needs to be nailed good.


----------



## tom67

Malcolm38 said:


> I have his full name and he is single.
> 
> Doesn't mean I couldn't send a letter to his boss about how he is screwing his co-worker in another office.
> 
> Will that mean anything? Will it end up costing my wife her job?
> 
> At this point I don't care. I'm going to do it.


Thanks for the reply and if you want to save this it's no holes barred!


----------



## Chaparral

So the affair did not end when she said or she would not have asked if he was okay.


----------



## 3putt

MelodyLane said:


> Workplace exposure letter - be sure and send to 3 key people and cc each on the letter. Good targets would be the Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both affairee's supervisor. This can be sent via registered letter or even via email!
> 
> Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney--
> 
> To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.
> 
> WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.
> 
> If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.
> 
> Regards,
> _________________________


----------



## TDSC60

You gave her a chance and she pissed on it.

She is protecting him and she is worried about him. 

Sorry but you are her back-up plan. The guy who maintains the home and looks after the kids. You are second place to her lover and all the crap about MC, wants her family back, is just that - more lies.

Sorry man but she is still feeding you what she thinks you want to hear to keep you on the line while she figures out how to better hide the affair and continue it.

Sounds like she has been screwing this guy for over a year now and is emotionally invested in him. No way can she just cut it off and mean it.

She will remain in contact with him probably through work methods that you cannot monitor. This is not over.


----------



## warlock07

What the ****!! The affair did not end... Her NC is a romantic farewell and a "let us meet when the time is right again". And she even talked to him about his "feelings" after f*cking him so many times ?

Your wife is officially in the entitled, selfish liar cheater territory. You are about to experience a lot of turmoil in the next few months. You have no idea about this woman.

have you exposed to her parents ? verify her by your own means. Don't trust one thing she tells yo. And expose the other guy if he isn't in a relationship.

You absolutely have no idea about the extent of her lies.


----------



## Chaparral

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html


----------



## warlock07

> She looked hurt that I dared make a joke about her wounded friendship.


How the f*ck was that a friendship ? Is she that dense or doesn't she care ?


----------



## warlock07

chapparal said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html


:iagree:

Absolutely read this thread.


----------



## walkonmars

Read the second part of post #1240 on this thread. The circumstances are not exactly the same but a lot of that can apply to your wife's thought processes and actions. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61098-third-strike-83.html


----------



## Chaparral

Have you checked her emails, texts, phone records for the last six months?

If you go back, look hard for a burner phone. 

While checking records don't forget that they put affair partners number under someone elses name. You have to check the acct online in case numbers are deleted from phone.

I truly hope I am wrong but I have no doubt the affair has never ended. Although I can't believe he called her at home either. Was that just brazen.

You are far more patient than I am. I would have grabbed her phone and talked to him myself ..................then destroyed the phone.

Is it an Iphone?


----------



## 3putt

One more thing: When you go back snatch that phone from her, check it for more contact, write down his phone number, drop the phone in the toilet, then sit down and enjoy a nice, long poop party.


----------



## jim123

Malcolm, you did nothing six months ago so she does not think you are serious. Please send something to OM's boss. You need to file D and start to move forward. Go home and ask your wife to leave.

She will not stop and more than likely did not stop after July anyway. You can still R but she needs to really want it. She will continue to lie until OM is really done.


----------



## committedwife

Malcolm38 said:


> I have his full name and he is single.
> 
> Doesn't mean I couldn't send a letter to his boss about how he is screwing his co-worker in another office.
> 
> Will that mean anything? Will it end up costing my wife her job?
> 
> At this point I don't care. I'm going to do it.


Malcolm, your WW absolutely CANNOT work with OM. The A will never end if they do not stop working together. Her job is not as important as your marriage! 

Why did you not demand that she change her cell phone number? When NC is initiated, you have to assume that one of the two infidels will attempt to break it. You need to close every avenue of contact between them to make NC stick. An adulteror going through withdrawal will slide if they have the opportunity. _Don't allow that opportunity._ You need to lead, here - your WW is going to need your help to get her through withdrawal. 

I've got to go back and read some of your thread - if they're still working together, NC has not been established and recovery cannot begin.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Malcom you need to listen to us, as much as you may think you know what your doing - you don't .

Half hearted attempts to stop the affair will not save your marriage , a full exposure to the work, her parents, siblings and yours is the minimum for now. Find this guys parents , friends and expose the hell out of him. You cannot nice your wife out of the affair .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Read the link above and take hard fast action now. Every day that passes enables their affair , your wife should not even have be able to take calls from him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ShootMePlz!

I bet since you have been out that she has made contact with him!!! 

He will always be a threat until you expose it to the workplace no matter what the cost to your wife's job!!! Especially since he is single!!!


----------



## committedwife

ShootMePlz! said:


> I bet since you have been out that she has made contact with him!!!
> 
> He will always be a threat until you expose it to the workplace no matter what the cost to your wife's job!!! Especially since he is single!!!


Understand this, Malcolm: she is his DRUG. He is going to need a hit. Don't let it happen.


----------



## Shaggy

Your wife needs a new cell phone number and she must leave her job immediately.

She is not really on board at all. She's begrudgingly doing what you've demanded, but not really, she's is still taking his calls and calling him after the nc letter.

Clearly he is her priority not the marriage.

Send the note to his boss.

Demand she acquits Monday or Wednesday.

Post him today on cheaterville.com


----------



## Acabado

Her latest words at phone:
*"Not now"*

She never ended it, she won't give up.

If she wants another chance she needs to come clean again: full disclosure, this time backed up with a polygraph.

Tell her to stop manipulating and to seek serious help.


----------



## walkonmars

And this is the woman who is the role model for your three daughters.
She's cheating on you but in the end, your girl's lives will be affected in a bad way because of her horrible and selfish choices.

She is shameless, cowardly, and amoral.


----------



## Shaggy

Yeah the not now is huge. Clearly she was able to go talk to him, so that isn't what she was referring to. I'm thinking he was asking her to go meet him.


----------



## Machiavelli

The contempt she has for you to take his call and speak to him right in front of you is over the top. She's been devaluing your manhood for a long time, I see.

How long has she been working this job?

She's probably still minimizing the length of the affair and the one year duration and 12 trysts are probably not the full measure.

Since you're moving to divorce, you are divorcing right?, it doesn't really matter.


----------



## ing

Hi,
to be honest i wouldn't even bother. This looks to me like she has moved you in to " he is a great Father" territory. 

6 months. Try 2 years. Divorced my wife after 18 months and only three days ago she said that she wanted to "choose once and for all" 
I told her I had already chosen. She seemed genuinely surprised

I only tell you this because I suspect your wife will drag you through false R after false R until YOU are the one to call the end.

She knows you will do anything to save your family. 
She knows how much you love her.
She knows that you are tying to avoid pain.

She is a cake eater and they are the worst type. She will claim to be confused, she will blame you for the continuation of that affair because of your harsh words.

Detach from her. See her as if a third person. What she says, and she will say terrible, terrible things, are only her opinion. 

Dont leave your home under any circumstances. 

Expose the affair as fast as you can. This is your best hope of saving anything, although to be truthful I don't hold out much hope.

Sorry you are here..


----------



## ing

And just to give you a boost because I imagine you are feeling pretty low right now. let me tell you something..

Your wife just went right to the bottom of the mid life dating pool. The absolute bottom..

You just went to the top. You will be smiling at women and they will be flirting with you in about two years. 
Beautiful, smart, delicious women everywhere you look 

Immediate and hard 180 will help you detach. Do it


----------



## foolme2x

Malcolm, I think you are on the right path and I commend you for being brave enough to take a stand even when you know things are going to be ugly.

I wanted to comment because your story reminds me a lot of my own current situation, but also because I am an example of what happens when you allow rugsweeping. My H had an EA which turned to PA several years ago, and due to a number of reasons (not least of which was finding I was pregnant with our third child 2 days after being absolutely blindsided by DD), I went into some sort of survival mode and we never ever dealt with any of his, my, or our issues substantively. 

Now I am dealing with a second EA turned PA that I discovered in July...though I got trickle-truthed until last week (also with a co-worker who thankfully is half a country away). If I had taken control in the first aftermath maybe things would have turned out differently. What you're doing will prevent the same thing happening to you if you ultimately reconcile. It may be that your wife will come out of her fog soon and be appalled by her actions. I hope so. Just from reading here, it seems that WWs tend to attach pretty strongly to the OM and quickly start visualizing their future together. 

My only other advice is to keep it together as best you can for the kids' sakes...easier said than done, maybe. And be careful who you disclose to in the first weeks/months! I have seriously TMI about my brother-in-law's marital issues and, believe me...AWKWARD.  Tell only your innermost circle for now...if there comes a time to reveal to others, it will show itself. Good luck.


----------



## JCD

Malcolm38 said:


> I have his full name and he is single.
> 
> Doesn't mean I couldn't send a letter to his boss about how he is screwing his co-worker in another office.
> 
> Will that mean anything? Will it end up costing my wife her job?
> 
> At this point I don't care. I'm going to do it.


Any update?


----------



## Malcolm38

Good Evening everyone, 

I have taken a break from posting on my thread because I needed to take "a minute" to think these things out.

The long and short of it is that my stbxw told me after the Holiday that she wanted to work on making our marriage "stronger than ever", but that she didn't want to end contact with her boyfriend because she thought he was a good man who is a good friend for her. Also, that I shouldn't try to control her. I'm obviously summarizing the conversation, but that truly is the jist of it. 

The only thing I realized at this point is that I've made a monumental mistake in choosing life partners. So I've done the following:

1. Told her to move out. She is staying with a friend for the time being. Not for too long though because of item #3. 

2. I've put in motion filing for divorce. 

3. I will be filing for full custody. Now this I had anticipated being a potentially major issue as you can imagine. However, that had a quirky development. It appears that her special friend has made it possible for her to be transferred to the office he works in a number of miles away. She has accepted and stated to me that perhaps it's best if I have custody of our daughters "for now" while she "finds herself". 

4. I had told her employer of her extramarital romance with a boss in their company. But as I can see with her being moved to his office, this wasn't exactly an earth shattering event for them. 

Well, she can certainly find herself elsewhere, because it won't be here. 

She also stated to me that she always thought she would be able to get back into my life when this fling was done because she thought I'd always be there for her. But I am too selfish to really show her that I care, and that I'll always be selfish. 

:scratchhead:

I could be wrong of course, but I do think that perhaps getting nailed by a co-worker while wearing my wedding ring might put her higher on the selfish ratings chart than my not wanting to be BFF's with her right now. But maybe I'm just too cold to see how mean I am. 

Honestly, all of this really sucks. I feel rather dead inside right now. But the one thing I refuse to do anymore is be walked on. I'd rather be alone. 

It's also incredibly embarrassing to deal with the last 6 months. More-so my reaction than even the being cheated on. "Hi, I had my wife cheat on me and I really didn't do anything about it all summer except give her a boo-boo face and tell her she is mean." I can't imagine what I was thinking. 

I'm all over the place right now. I have to be a good father to my girls. That is #1. But the rest? I'm just figuring it out.


----------



## walkonmars

STOP
STOP IT GAWD DAMIT!

YOU are embarassed? Why? 
Oh because you trusted your wife. You trusted the mother of your children. You trusted someone who made vows in front of two families and before a judge or God.

Friend. Hold your head high. Straighten your back, puff out your chest.

"I kept my vows, I honored my marriage, I have been there for my girls and will continue to be their guiding light"

That's you Malcolm. Be proud of who and what you are. She is shameless and lacks a moral base. That does not reflect on you. Be happy that your girls will not have her as a role model.

You'll be fine. She won't - not for a long time if ever.


----------



## Wazza

When a parent abandons their children as well betraying their spouse, it makes a despicable act much worse in my view.

You have handled a difficult situation very well. You are right that your first focus has to be your daughters, but you also need to take care of yourself.


----------



## Saki

sigh

this one dove head first into the entitlement cool aide, didn't she? 

How do sane people come up with this stuff?!?!

Good luck man, she's wacko and you are better off without her.

Go burn some steam off, exercise exercise exercise


----------



## Machiavelli

Malcolm38 said:


> She also stated to me that she always thought she would be able to get back into my life when this fling was done because she thought I'd always be there for her. But I am too selfish to really show her that I care, and that I'll always be selfish.


It's amazing how many women come up with this. What it really means is that she thinks you'll take it because you can't get another woman. That's part of the BH devaluing process that adulteresses get all wrapped up in. The best "kick in the nuts" you can deliver to her is to get your body looking like the guy in the photo and start putting together a harem of college girls. She won't like that one bit. BTW, don't start up the harem until the divorce is a done deal, because she will be truly pissed at the idea of you with multiple, younger, hotter women.


----------



## krismimo

Holy crapola! Will comment when I get home....


----------



## tom67

Boy a mom abandoning the kids, what a class act. Hit the gym go out with friends. What do mutual friends think of her? I hope not much.


----------



## tom67

You could threaten legal action against the company but I guess you don't want her to lose the job and pay more so forget it.


----------



## Machiavelli

Naw, he's got a shot at full custody, so he needs to fast track this divorce ASAP before she goes ape**** on him.


----------



## walkonmars

Machiavelli said:


> Naw, he's got a shot at full custody, so he needs to fast track this divorce ASAP before she goes ape**** on him.


:iagree:

The quicker the better.


----------



## sandc

Take a look at your wife's future. This was written by the WS of a man who has posted here on TAM. Wish I knew who he was.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...u-decide-leave-read-my-story.html#post1385676


----------



## JCD

Get the lawyer to draw up custody papers NOW! Have her sign them while she's still an idiot. Get her a bit liquored up if you have to.

You can always change things later when she has a surgical procedure to remove her head from her ass but for right now, get it done yesterday.


----------



## warlock07

I think this is a happy ending for you even if you cannot see it for now. Your wife proved what we were all cautioning you about. A false reconciliation. 

If you haven't read it yet, read Rookie's thread


----------



## warlock07

Also, exposure on all levels.



> 4. I had told her employer of her extramarital romance with a boss in their company. But as I can see with her being moved to his office, this wasn't exactly an earth shattering event for them.


Make sure you expose to the right guy. You could have talked to a close friend of the OM who could have buried the issue. What kind of company is it ?(Big/smalll, MNC etc)


----------



## Acabado

I say stop exposure, get the custody issue done ASAP, let her believe all the crap she's selling herself in order to feel better within for being such a despicable individual, ignore the bull but pretend you buy it too, take adventage!!!
Be smart, go for the kids, the money, everything. 
Do it yesterday.


----------



## JCD

Acabado said:


> I say stop exposure, get the custody issue done ASAP, let her believe all the crap she's selling herself in order to feel better within for being such a despicable individual, ignore the bull but pretend you buy it too, take adventage!!!
> Be smart, go for the kids, the money, everything.
> Do it yesterday.


Well...you get the custody first, because if you expose first, she'll be mad enough to fight you on that for revenge.

So choose your battles wisely and attack in the proper order.


----------



## Grey Goose

Malcolm38 said:


> One other thing that bugs me....
> 
> I was taking care of the youngest who had the flu that week that she was doing bedroom gymnastics with Mr. Perfect.
> 
> I'm not looking for an award of Valor for taking care of my kid, but the contrast to our activities that week really angers me.


Here if it makes you feel any better I was running around looking for evaluations, paying up to $1,000 a month in treatments for my child so we could get him out of the autism spectrum and paying most of the house expenses while my H was having his 5 month plus affair. All through this time she was receiving expensive gifts ($400 Raymond Weil watch plus other jewelry) and VS underware to model. 

They never see anything we do!:iagree:


----------



## sunvalley

Malcolm38 said:


> .... my stbxw told me after the Holiday that she wanted to work on making our marriage "stronger than ever", but that she didn't want to end contact with her boyfriend because she thought he was a good man who is a good friend for her. Also, that I shouldn't try to control her. ....
> 
> She also stated to me that she always *thought she would be able to get back into my life when this fling was done because she thought I'd always be there for her. But I am too selfish to really show her that I care, and that I'll always be selfish.*


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 'Scuse me!?!?!? She thought she could creep around on you AND your children, and come strolling back when she'd had her fill?!?!?!?!? OMG. In my experience, this is the behavior of a spoiled, immature, serial cheater. I hate to say this -- and believe me, I'm not trying to rub salt in a terrible wound -- but IMHO, this wasn't your wife's first affair.

Also, Malcolm38, *you did nothing wrong.* Please repeat that to yourself at least three times a day. You are not selfish and controlling; you're standing up for your and your children's rights. Someone's finally called your stbxw's bluff, and she feels guilty and ashamed. (She'll never admit it, though -- she can't. Now that someone's finally holding her accountable for her actions, she can't deal with that.)

When she's dumped by this OM, please do not allow her to guilt-trip you into another chance. She tore up her "mom and wife" card when she spread her legs for this guy (and Lord knows how many others before this one).

It will get better. Just hold your head high, and continue acting with dignity.


----------



## BjornFree

Malcolm38 said:


> She also stated to me that she always thought she would be able to get back into my life when this fling was done because she thought I'd always be there for her. But I am too selfish to really show her that I care, and that I'll always be selfish.


Someone needs to make this into a meme.


----------



## hookares

Discovery can kill something inside of the betrayed spouse that just never returns. I think the longer you have been married, the deader it becomes. Can't speak for what happens inside the cheater since I never tried that avenue.'Be thankful for your children and don't spend a lot of time trying to figure out why they and the marriage just wasn't enough for what should be your ex.


----------



## morituri

Her comments to you are simply a projection to make herself feel better, at your expense of course. Just like my ex, her mind is totally fvcked up. Don't look for revenge, simply live your life honestly - That is, after all is said and done, the best revenge (trust me on this one).


----------



## barbados

She is leaving behind 5 & 10 year old children. She is going to go be with a single man. He wants all of her attention. This is going to end badly for her, and she deserves every bit of it. 

But you will be divorced, have your children, and have your values and morals intact. You daughters will learn their values and morals from YOU, and right now that is the most important thing.

Remember also what some other posters have already said, and please under no circumstances let her back into your life after the POSOM and her split up.

Stay strong & Good Luck !


----------



## happyman64

Wow Malcolm I so feel for you since I am a dad with 3 girls.

But you know as a father and a man what you must do.

Divorce her. Take full custody of your daughters and never look back.

There is something wrong with a person that breaks their vows, lies and cheats.

But there is absolutely something terribly wrong about a woman that gives up their children. The maternal instinct in a woman starts before birth. For any woman to leave their children for another person to even contemplate giving up custody should show you how selfish and unstable your wife is.

You have nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about.

What I hope you come to realize post divorce is that your STBXW does not deserve your friendship now or in the future.

Be strong for you and your kids.

You will find a woman that truly loves you and your children.

HM64


----------



## Shaggy

I can't believe her company is ok with a boss moving his affair partner over to his location so they can shack up together at work.

The likely hood of lawsuits from people working at the location just skyrocketed. No way would HR allow that.

Time to have a lawyer send an official letter to HR. she's abandoning her children to cheat, end that option for her, it's nuclear time for the kids sake.


----------



## the guy

Malcom,
There are a few new folks that made the same mistakes you made. You have a lot to offer here in this forum. A few newbie are currently entering that stage you once were in last summer. 

A few folks are at that point were many of us were and can not see the train wreck coming by trying to "nice" there way through their spouses affair.

Its sad, but but your approach put you through torture for months and months only to end up at the point you never wanted to get to. As painful as it is sharing your life lessons in fighting this affair is valuable ans other can benifit in not what to do in fighting an affair.


----------



## warlock07

Shaggy said:


> I can't believe her company is ok with a boss moving his affair partner over to his location so they can shack up together at work.
> 
> The likely hood of lawsuits from people working at the location just skyrocketed. No way would HR allow that.
> 
> Time to have a lawyer send an official letter to HR. she's abandoning her children to cheat, end that option for her, it's nuclear time for the kids sake.


I'm repeating this, but maybe the OP got the wrong person when he decided to expose.


----------



## happyman64

warlock07 said:


> I'm repeating this, but maybe the OP got the wrong person when he decided to expose.


I was wondering the same thing. I would have hit HR at both offices as well as the corporate office.

He might be too late.

Because if my wife pulled this crap on me and our children I would make it my mission to destroy their lives together.

The spotlight would be on them so badly they would not want to be seen together.

I would leave her with no Plan A, B or C!

But then again that is just my way.


----------



## Malcolm38

The work thing is a two-fold issue for me right now.

A. I think I probably did notify the wrong person at her work place. I don't doubt that now. 

but....

B. I really want to fast track the divorce and think that perhaps it's better to let her run off with Romeo so I can get full custody and a better agreement. 

I don't pretend to know what the best thing to do is, but I am leaning towards going with option B as a means to getting the favorable terms to the divorce. 

To be clear, I don't have any interest in remaining in this marriage, so using some method to "wake her up to come back to me" isn't really something that I want. 

But I'm having some difficulty thinking fully clearly at this point and may be missing something here.


----------



## happyman64

Malcolm

One of our fellow members fast tracked his divorce to a favorable conclusion I believe.

He then killed their affair by emailing and lettering their firm, their families and their friends until a cease and desist was threatened.

Not for revenge but to teach two cheaters a lesson I believe.

I do not remember who did it but I agree. Do not be her Plan B.

Because she is a mess. Her actions clearly show that o be true.

Get her for all that you can while she is in the fog.


----------



## tom67

Malcolm think about it after the d. I would do it to get the mother of my children back into their lives and a little revenge on pos om he should pay also jmo.


----------



## 3putt

happyman64 said:


> Malcolm
> 
> One of our fellow members fast tracked his divorce to a favorable conclusion I believe.
> 
> He then killed their affair by emailing and lettering their firm, their families and their friends until a cease and desist was threatened.
> 
> Not for revenge but to teach two cheaters a lesson I believe.
> 
> I do not remember who did it but I agree. Do not be her Plan B.
> 
> Because she is a mess. Her actions clearly show that o be true.
> 
> Get her for all that you can while she is in the fog.


This may be happening again pretty soon..

cough cough edubs


----------



## happyman64

Gotcha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

Malcolm38 said:


> The work thing is a two-fold issue for me right now.
> 
> A. I think I probably did notify the wrong person at her work place. I don't doubt that now.
> 
> but....
> 
> *B. I really want to fast track the divorce and think that perhaps it's better to let her run off with Romeo so I can get full custody and a better agreement. *
> 
> I don't pretend to know what the best thing to do is, but I am leaning towards going with option B as a means to getting the favorable terms to the divorce.
> 
> To be clear, I don't have any interest in remaining in this marriage, so using some method to "wake her up to come back to me" isn't really something that I want.
> 
> But I'm having some difficulty thinking fully clearly at this point and may be missing something here.


Fast track the divorce and get what you want financially and custody-wise while she's amenable to it. Do it as fast as you can because if other man dumps her, she may change her mind.

If you want to blow it up where she works, you can always do it after the divorce is final and you've already gotten what you wanted. Assuming she still is in relationship with other man at that point (the affairs sometimes die pretty quickly when the drama and secrecy of lying and cheating are taken out of the equation and the harshness of real life intrudes).


----------



## JCD

Besides, having shot off half c0cked, he might have blown his intentions and they are probably in defense mode...if they noticed at all.


----------



## theroad

This affair needs to be exposed to the Owner/CEO, board of directors, Head of Human Resources. Send them emails and follow up with registered letters.

State that a manager has been having an affair with your WW and using company resources and time to conduct this affair.

Then further state in the email/letter what is the company going to do to end the affair and have no more work contact between the affair partner's.


----------



## ing

Malcom

This was almost word for word what my ExW of 25 years said. She thinks it is totally fine to treat you and your daughters with total contempt. 
*In her miind..*
Right now she will be thinking that she is setting a good role model for her girls by taking what she wants and showing them that she is "strong". 
This will take about 3-6 months to get to after the intial fck drugs wear off. 
At the moment I can almost guarantee that her and the OM are planning BBQ's with you, your new partner, your girls and them where you will all laugh about life being strange .

She will give you about 3 months to get over the anger and then accuse you of abusing her with your pain. 

At about 6 months she will start to realise that you are not going to be at the aforementioned party and your daughters are going to be seriously pissed with her. She has betrayed them too. There is nothing you can do or should do to attempt to change their view of her. Don't bad mouth her, but don't defend her either..

1-2 years and she is going to be VERY angry with you for not conforming to her wishes and be amazed you won't take her back.

Her life is going to be hell.. She has chosen this. Keep telling your self that. She CHOSE IT. 
At 2 years... You will be well on the sway to recovery. Your girls will be making a new life where mom is a Sunday visit and you will be very tired single Dad. I know I am.

PLEASE do not engage with her at all. She is a super cake eater and it will only get worse with time. In the end you will see her for who she really is, this will take time too.

Sorry for your pain. It takes a long time to recover and especially for a man who can love deeply, as you do. 
Your not a fool for loving her. Your daughters see this. They will be feeling insecure for the next year at least. The best thing you can do now is to be the rock. They are going to hang on to you so tight through this. stay the rock for a very long time. It is okay to be upset though. Show how much you are hurt but that you are STAYING PUT. Be boring. Predicable and through little parties for them and their friends. Break all the rules your wife set. Read [or watch] "The Boys are back" You can not run a house as a female would. Don't even try!  
The road is tough but VERY rewarding.


----------



## old timer

*"Eats unicorns for breakfast." *

Love the siggy, ing.

Personally, I slay dragons in night clubs, lmao


----------



## ing

old timer said:


> *"Eats unicorns for breakfast." *
> 
> Love the siggy, ing.
> 
> Personally, I slay dragons in night clubs, lmao


Excellent!! I see a new video game development! 




*Infidelity wars.*

When reality meets fantasy can only reality win?


----------



## alte Dame

ing said:


> ...
> Right now she will be thinking that she is setting a good role model for her girls by taking what she wants and showing them that she is "strong".


This is so true. It's a dysfunctional, self-serving 'you go girl' thought process with many women.


----------



## old timer

alte Dame said:


> This is so true. It's a dysfunctional, self-serving 'you go girl' thought process with many women.


Wow, aD, that took a set to say that. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

How are you doing these days???


----------



## Malcolm38

It's been an interesting last couple of weeks. Personally I could have done without any of this of course. But there is a certain amount of black humor that tends to help me get through a lot of the insanity. 

The soon to be ex-wifester has been traveling back to our home on the weekends to spend time with our daughters. She stays in the guest bedroom and I have been taking the time to do other things like travel and go the gym, etc. 

Around Feb 7th I sent a certified letter to the office of the CEO of her company detailing the situation and all of the parties involved. Long story short, she and her super duper lover are on a 6-week unpaid leave of absence now. 

My thought was that this whole thing blowing up at work would turn this situation into WW3. She was all weepy the evening of it all going down and accusing me of trying to ruin her life, etc. 

Then on Feb 23rd she drove back for her "normal" visitation with our children. She asked me to stay and talk with her that evening. I declined and told her that we weren't going to get into it with our children present, and that we had nothing to say. 

I got back home around 11 PM. (For full disclosure, I've turned into a work-out freak since all of this crap started and was actually at the gym until it closed. Didn't tell her that though). Every other weekend she already in the guest room, but that night she was still waiting up. 

She started the whole "I've made a big mistake" thing and was begging for a chance to come home. I asked her if superman had dumped her, but she said that she had dumped him because she missed me and our family. 

Of course it's a very difficult situation, and I feel torn at times as to what to do. For now I told her she can live in the guest bedroom. 

She has signed up for counseling to figure out "what is wrong with her". She also wants us to go to Marital counseling. I have not answered and will not for the time being. 

My rules are as follows:
1. I'm still proceeding with divorce. 

2. I'm not promising reconciliation. I'm promising to go to some sort of mediation with her to make the transition to co-parenting as smooth as possible. 

3. She has to look for other housing by April. I won't have any restrictions on her spending time with our daughters, as she owe's them her time after neglecting them for the past 3 months. But it won't be with her staying here beyond March 31st. 

The one thing I haven't said yet because it's just an internal thought is that if there ever is a reconciliation and re-marriage I will need a pre-nup to protect my rights as a father to my children. 

Honestly...if my daughters weren't involved she wouldn't even be staying here. But I think it's important to have her back in their lives, and this is the best thing I could think of doing in the interim of her getting her own place. 

I have seen the letter of NC to her boytoy. This is take 2 of course, so you'll have to excuse me for not being all weepy with joy about it. I have her passwords, but haven't looked at anything yet. 

It's all nice and the like, but I feel checked out of the marriage and frankly not all that into "fixing it" and playing detective. For today I just assume it's a game and don't get my hopes all up. 

So my update is one of mass confusion.


----------



## tom67

Malcolm38 said:


> It's been an interesting last couple of weeks. Personally I could have done without any of this of course. But there is a certain amount of black humor that tends to help me get through a lot of the insanity.
> 
> The soon to be ex-wifester has been traveling back to our home on the weekends to spend time with our daughters. She stays in the guest bedroom and I have been taking the time to do other things like travel and go the gym, etc.
> 
> Around Feb 7th I sent a certified letter to the office of the CEO of her company detailing the situation and all of the parties involved. Long story short, she and her super duper lover are on a 6-week unpaid leave of absence now.
> 
> My thought was that this whole thing blowing up at work would turn this situation into WW3. She was all weepy the evening of it all going down and accusing me of trying to ruin her life, etc.
> 
> Then on Feb 23rd she drove back for her "normal" visitation with our children. She asked me to stay and talk with her that evening. I declined and told her that we weren't going to get into it with our children present, and that we had nothing to say.
> 
> I got back home around 11 PM. (For full disclosure, I've turned into a work-out freak since all of this crap started and was actually at the gym until it closed. Didn't tell her that though). Every other weekend she already in the guest room, but that night she was still waiting up.
> 
> She started the whole "I've made a big mistake" thing and was begging for a chance to come home. I asked her if superman had dumped her, but she said that she had dumped him because she missed me and our family.
> 
> Of course it's a very difficult situation, and I feel torn at times as to what to do. For now I told her she can live in the guest bedroom.
> 
> She has signed up for counseling to figure out "what is wrong with her". She also wants us to go to Marital counseling. I have not answered and will not for the time being.
> 
> My rules are as follows:
> 1. I'm still proceeding with divorce.
> 
> 2. I'm not promising reconciliation. I'm promising to go to some sort of mediation with her to make the transition to co-parenting as smooth as possible.
> 
> 3. She has to look for other housing by April. I won't have any restrictions on her spending time with our daughters, as she owe's them her time after neglecting them for the past 3 months. But it won't be with her staying here beyond March 31st.
> 
> The one thing I haven't said yet because it's just an internal thought is that if there ever is a reconciliation and re-marriage I will need a pre-nup to protect my rights as a father to my children.
> 
> Honestly...if my daughters weren't involved she wouldn't even be staying here. But I think it's important to have her back in their lives, and this is the best thing I could think of doing in the interim of her getting her own place.
> 
> I have seen the letter of NC to her boytoy. This is take 2 of course, so you'll have to excuse me for not being all weepy with joy about it. I have her passwords, but haven't looked at anything yet.
> 
> It's all nice and the like, but I feel checked out of the marriage and frankly not all that into "fixing it" and playing detective. For today I just assume it's a game and don't get my hopes all up.
> 
> So my update is one of mass confusion.


I'm glad you blew it up hang in there.


----------



## Jasel

Well sounds like you've been handling the situation pretty well. Keep us updated. How have your kids been holding up during all this btw?


----------



## happyman64

Malcolm38 said:


> It's been an interesting last couple of weeks. Personally I could have done without any of this of course. But there is a certain amount of black humor that tends to help me get through a lot of the insanity.
> 
> The soon to be ex-wifester has been traveling back to our home on the weekends to spend time with our daughters. She stays in the guest bedroom and I have been taking the time to do other things like travel and go the gym, etc.
> 
> Around Feb 7th I sent a certified letter to the office of the CEO of her company detailing the situation and all of the parties involved. Long story short, she and her super duper lover are on a 6-week unpaid leave of absence now.
> 
> My thought was that this whole thing blowing up at work would turn this situation into WW3. She was all weepy the evening of it all going down and accusing me of trying to ruin her life, etc.
> 
> Then on Feb 23rd she drove back for her "normal" visitation with our children. She asked me to stay and talk with her that evening. I declined and told her that we weren't going to get into it with our children present, and that we had nothing to say.
> 
> I got back home around 11 PM. (For full disclosure, I've turned into a work-out freak since all of this crap started and was actually at the gym until it closed. Didn't tell her that though). Every other weekend she already in the guest room, but that night she was still waiting up.
> 
> She started the whole "I've made a big mistake" thing and was begging for a chance to come home. I asked her if superman had dumped her, but she said that she had dumped him because she missed me and our family.
> 
> Of course it's a very difficult situation, and I feel torn at times as to what to do. For now I told her she can live in the guest bedroom.
> 
> She has signed up for counseling to figure out "what is wrong with her". She also wants us to go to Marital counseling. I have not answered and will not for the time being.
> 
> My rules are as follows:
> 1. I'm still proceeding with divorce.
> 
> 2. I'm not promising reconciliation. I'm promising to go to some sort of mediation with her to make the transition to co-parenting as smooth as possible.
> 
> 3. She has to look for other housing by April. I won't have any restrictions on her spending time with our daughters, as she owe's them her time after neglecting them for the past 3 months. But it won't be with her staying here beyond March 31st.
> 
> The one thing I haven't said yet because it's just an internal thought is that if there ever is a reconciliation and re-marriage I will need a pre-nup to protect my rights as a father to my children.
> 
> Honestly...if my daughters weren't involved she wouldn't even be staying here. But I think it's important to have her back in their lives, and this is the best thing I could think of doing in the interim of her getting her own place.
> 
> I have seen the letter of NC to her boytoy. This is take 2 of course, so you'll have to excuse me for not being all weepy with joy about it. I have her passwords, but haven't looked at anything yet.
> 
> It's all nice and the like, but I feel checked out of the marriage and frankly not all that into "fixing it" and playing detective. For today I just assume it's a game and don't get my hopes all up.
> 
> So my update is one of mass confusion.


You do not sound confused. Checked out?Yes.

But who could blame you.

I think your wife in the gilrs lives are important and you have handled it the best way you could. 

I also understand her not being trustworthy.

Watch her actions. 

And she should go to counseling.

She clearly needs it.

Stay strong. Enforce your boundaried and she needs to agree to your conditions just to stay there.

HM64

PS

Good job exposing. It needed to be done.


----------



## walkonmars

Confusion my reign in your household but your are doing *GREAT*. I don't mean that your life is great, I mean that your actions are the best they can be under the circumstances. 

You understand that it was your letter and subsequent unpaid leave that created the stress in the relationship with Mr Irresistible. Absent your actions, they would have continued on their merry journey until one or the other cheated - that was bound to happen. 

Keep your head on straight. Love that you're working out. Nothing like it to get the brain chemicals balanced and your body in tiptop shape. 

Take the opportunity while she tends to the kids to go out and meet other people. IMO you should definitely let the divorce go forth and THEN see how much weight she is willing to carry. She has a lot to do to repair her relationship with you. After all, she first sandbagged you, then very coldly left you. 

You're doing fine. Your children have a rock to anchor their lives. It would be beneficial to their well-being to have two loving parents. But they at least have a singular rock they can rely on.


----------



## Jasel

And I just want to throw out there you can still have your wife/stbxw be a part of the girls life without staying married to her.


----------



## Malcolm38

Jasel said:


> Well sounds like you've been handling the situation pretty well. Keep us updated. How have your kids been holding up during all this btw?


My 5 year old is doing pretty well. She is always "on the go" and is the main reason I fall asleep by 9 PM most nights. LOL

My 10 year old has been rather silent. She is the type of girl who is very thoughtful and has been trying to "help" more around the house. I actually kind of wish she was a little less mature to be honest. LOL I want her to just be a 10 year old.... She is very sensitive and I worry that she'll become the type of woman to take on the worries of the world on her shoulders. 

They are the best 2 things that have ever happened to me.


----------



## Malcolm38

One thing that bothers me still is how I basically didn't do anything for the first 5-6 months after the initial D-Day. 

I tried to "nice" my way out of this horror show and that did absolutely nothing other than make me feel like I was worth $1.25. 

I do value a lot of what I read from fellow posters on TAM. I honestly wouldn't have gone out of my way to "expose" if I hadn't read it over and over on here. My honest feeling was "why bother?". But I figured there must be a reason people keep saying it and it started to make sense. I'm honestly kind of shocked it worked as quickly as it did. 

I'm kind of resentful that it took me doing that to get her to actually pay attention to me and what she was doing. I don't really care too much right now about "being" with her, but I am going to have to work through that resentment for my children's sake. I don't think it would be good for them to see me snarky towards their mother. 

It's difficult to describe the anger I feel towards her. NO, it's not the type of anger that would make me ever get physical. Even in the blind rage of finding out she was cheating on me I didn't come close to doing anything physical. However, the rage I'm describing is like this.....She hugged me tonight for letting her stay at the house....her touch made me feel nauseous.


----------



## walkonmars

Malcolm38 said:


> ...She hugged me tonight for letting her stay at the house....her touch made me feel nauseous.


Let her know: " karen, please don't touch me again. Your hug last night gave me the creeps. It will be a long time before I don't see you and feel dirty".


----------



## Jasel

walkonmars said:


> Let her know: " karen, please don't touch me again. Your hug last night gave me the creeps. It will be a long time before I don't see you and feel dirty".


Or he could just "accidently" throw up on her. She might get the hint.


----------



## theroad

Malcolm38 said:


> One thing that bothers me still is how I basically didn't do anything for the first 5-6 months after the initial D-Day.
> 
> I tried to "nice" my way out of this horror show and that did absolutely nothing other than make me feel like I was worth $1.25.
> 
> I do value a lot of what I read from fellow posters on TAM. I honestly wouldn't have gone out of my way to "expose" if I hadn't read it over and over on here. My honest feeling was "why bother?". But I figured there must be a reason people keep saying it and it started to make sense. I'm honestly kind of shocked it worked as quickly as it did.
> 
> I'm kind of resentful that it took me doing that to get her to actually pay attention to me and what she was doing. I don't really care too much right now about "being" with her, but I am going to have to work through that resentment for my children's sake. I don't think it would be good for them to see me snarky towards their mother.
> 
> It's difficult to describe the anger I feel towards her. NO, it's not the type of anger that would make me ever get physical. Even in the blind rage of finding out she was cheating on me I didn't come close to doing anything physical. However, the rage I'm describing is like this.....She hugged me tonight for letting her stay at the house....her touch made me feel nauseous.


Do not be mad at yourself feeling that all you did was stand around with your johnson in your hand getting no where.

Just as any other BH you where shell shocked on dday.

No prior experience or knowledge on how to kill affairs.

We know that.

That is why when appear to be going off the deep end on how a BH must expose. Over and over and over.

Now the nest step for you is to become an expert on recovery. Get Dr Harley's book Surviving An Affair and his other book His Needs Her Needs. These books are not expensive.


----------



## happyman64

Malcolm

You did what you have to do.

And I do not truly think your action caused her to pay attention to you or your girls.

Your action caused her to look at the decisions she has made over the past year.

She looked at her actions, the results and the ensuing damage she inflicted on you, herself and your family.

That is really the key. She needs to reflect on her horrible decisions. She needs t reflect on why she needed another mans flattery and attention.

She needs to reflect on how she broke her vows and committment to her family.

And before you can reattach (if you can or want to) she needs to get professional help she needs to become the woman she was when you met her.

Glad you came back Malcolm.

HM64


----------



## MattMatt

Malcolm38 said:


> One thing that bothers me still is how I basically didn't do anything for the first 5-6 months after the initial D-Day.
> 
> I tried to "nice" my way out of this horror show and that did absolutely nothing other than make me feel like I was worth $1.25.
> 
> I do value a lot of what I read from fellow posters on TAM. I honestly wouldn't have gone out of my way to "expose" if I hadn't read it over and over on here. My honest feeling was "why bother?". But I figured there must be a reason people keep saying it and it started to make sense. I'm honestly kind of shocked it worked as quickly as it did.
> 
> I'm kind of resentful that it took me doing that to get her to actually pay attention to me and what she was doing. I don't really care too much right now about "being" with her, but I am going to have to work through that resentment for my children's sake. I don't think it would be good for them to see me snarky towards their mother.
> 
> It's difficult to describe the anger I feel towards her. NO, it's not the type of anger that would make me ever get physical. Even in the blind rage of finding out she was cheating on me I didn't come close to doing anything physical. However, the rage I'm describing is like this.....She hugged me tonight for letting her stay at the house....her touch made me feel nauseous.


I never felt anger, just incredible, crushing sadness. Guess we react in different ways.

I wish you well in whatever path you choose. You and your girls. All three of them.


----------



## FalconKing

Malcolm38 said:


> It's been an interesting last couple of weeks. Personally I could have done without any of this of course. But there is a certain amount of black humor that tends to help me get through a lot of the insanity.
> 
> The soon to be ex-wifester has been traveling back to our home on the weekends to spend time with our daughters. She stays in the guest bedroom and I have been taking the time to do other things like travel and go the gym, etc.
> 
> Around Feb 7th I sent a certified letter to the office of the CEO of her company detailing the situation and all of the parties involved. Long story short, she and her super duper lover are on a 6-week unpaid leave of absence now.
> 
> My thought was that this whole thing blowing up at work would turn this situation into WW3. She was all weepy the evening of it all going down and accusing me of trying to ruin her life, etc.
> 
> Then on Feb 23rd she drove back for her "normal" visitation with our children. She asked me to stay and talk with her that evening. I declined and told her that we weren't going to get into it with our children present, and that we had nothing to say.
> 
> I got back home around 11 PM. (For full disclosure, I've turned into a work-out freak since all of this crap started and was actually at the gym until it closed. Didn't tell her that though). Every other weekend she already in the guest room, but that night she was still waiting up.
> 
> She started the whole "I've made a big mistake" thing and was begging for a chance to come home.* I asked her if superman had dumped her, but she said that she had dumped him because she missed me and our family. *
> 
> Of course it's a very difficult situation, and I feel torn at times as to what to do. For now I told her she can live in the guest bedroom.
> 
> She has signed up for counseling to figure out "what is wrong with her". She also wants us to go to Marital counseling. I have not answered and will not for the time being.
> 
> My rules are as follows:
> 1. I'm still proceeding with divorce.
> 
> 2. I'm not promising reconciliation. I'm promising to go to some sort of mediation with her to make the transition to co-parenting as smooth as possible.
> 
> 3. She has to look for other housing by April. I won't have any restrictions on her spending time with our daughters, as she owe's them her time after neglecting them for the past 3 months. But it won't be with her staying here beyond March 31st.
> 
> The one thing I haven't said yet because it's just an internal thought is that if there ever is a reconciliation and re-marriage I will need a pre-nup to protect my rights as a father to my children.
> 
> Honestly...if my daughters weren't involved she wouldn't even be staying here. But I think it's important to have her back in their lives, and this is the best thing I could think of doing in the interim of her getting her own place.
> 
> I have seen the letter of NC to her boytoy. This is take 2 of course, so you'll have to excuse me for not being all weepy with joy about it. I have her passwords, but haven't looked at anything yet.
> 
> It's all nice and the like, but I feel checked out of the marriage and frankly not all that into "fixing it" and playing detective. For today I just assume it's a game and don't get my hopes all up.
> 
> So my update is one of mass confusion.


I'm proud of you sir. But IMHO, that bolded statement is a lie. He probably kicked her to the curve because he thinks she's baggage and now his job is in jeopardy. You were and are her plan B and she just misses the security of being married now that her world is crumbling. Maybe she thinks you'll save her one last time? She has shown extreme selfishness. Out of all times she could've tried, suddenly she's trying now?


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## Shaggy

You've done good Malcolm. Congrats on the exposure at work. It's easy to find a thousand reason not to do at thing, it took courage to do what you did. Now your getting results. Well done!


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## eric415

.


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## jim123

The most important this is you have control over your future. Keep moving on. Do not R out of weakness. Get your head together. Keep getting out and do not get sucked in.


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## The Cro-Magnon

Wow. The real world dishes up some consequences for her despicable actions, thanks to a CEO with at least.some rudimentary conscience, and all of a sudden this ***** magically finds her "love" for malcom and her daughters again. Let all BS who vacillate on exposure, like they all seem to do, read this thread. How she expects malcom to take her back is beyond me. Malcolm should ask the cheating remorseless cake eating horror that used to be his wife "if I betrayed you, crushed you, abandoned our children, destroyed our family, for some fantasy fcuking with another woman, would YOU take ME back?" She made her bed, let her lay in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars

Malcolm,

When her unpaid suspension is up will she be transferred back to her old office, is she still going to be assigned to the office of the OM, or is she going to look for another job?

How have your in-laws reacted to you during the last two nonths?


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## Eli-Zor

walkonmars said:


> Malcolm,
> 
> When her unpaid suspension is up will she be transferred back to her old office, is she still going to be assigned to the office of the OM, or is she going to look for another job?
> 
> How have your in-laws reacted to you during the last two nonths?


The above is an important question? She should leave the job regardless.

I for one would request she sends a hand written letter of apology to both your parents and hers , she acknowledges her adultery , and as waywards normally gaslight their BS she undoes those lies . She should also state her intent to be with you and the children. This does not change your course of action it does help you heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy

Malcolm38 said:


> She started the whole "I've made a big mistake" thing and was begging for a chance to come home. I asked her if superman had dumped her, but she said that she had dumped him because she missed me and our family.


 Although you seem to have your head on straight, I think that now would be a good time to remind you that in an earlier post on this thread you said that "She also stated to me that she always thought she would be able to get back into my life when this fling was done because she thought I'd always be there for her." Her affair did not end when you first found out, and she in fact would get mad at you if even brought it up with her. It did not end 6 months later when after she sent the first NC letter, she immediately backtracked and told you that "she didn't want to end contact with her boyfriend because she thought he was a good man who is a good friend for her". She honestly believes that no matter how much she cheats on you, you will take her back, be it for the children or whatever, in her mind your the chump.

Her actions were cold blooded and heartless not just to you but to your children. Yet she has no remorse and will do it again the next time a fling opportunity presents itself. I am not one of the posters on this board that always advises others not to reconcile (especially when young children are involved), but your wife's selfishness makes her a poor choice to stay married to.


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## jnj express

Malcolm------its sad, but your wife nailed it right on the head didn't she

Your post of Jan 30th---the selfish post----to quote you and your wife----"she always thought you would take her back, when she was finished with her fling"

Your wife has had at least a 15th month A., with sex multiple times, and probably lots of it since she moved out---and here she is back home

I am sorry, but I don't want to hear about all the restrictions she has---that she has to do this, and she has to be gone by whenever---bottom line---"SHE CALLED THE SHOT"---she had her A., ended it for whatever reason, but is now back home.

I don't wanna hear about how you get nauseated by being around her-----and I don't wanna hear about how you are the winner---that she has come crawling back, and I don't wanna hear about how this is for the kids----again bottom line here is as follows----"YOUR WIFE CALLED HER SHOT, SHE HAD HER A., AND IS BACK HOME, AND SHE IS LIVING AS SHE WAS BEFORE", restrictions or not, reading what you say, you are already thinking up reasons, as to why she can stay

Call a spade a spade----your wife had her fling and is home---SAD TO SAY---SHE IS THE WINNER


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## warlock07

Glad you posted here again Malcom. Good luck!!


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## warlock07

Also, have you considered that she wants to get back with you once the OM(probably) threw her under the bus ?


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## NewM

You need to protect yourself financially and your time with daughters.Continue with divorce and get custody of them.You can keep her as a girlfriend around the house.It will be much easier to just dump her if you are divorced and have custody of kids if/when she decides to cheat again.

She left the house,that is used as abandonment in divorce and you can get better deal with custody and more time with daughters.If you decide to R and after 1 year she tells you it is not working,you will get worse deal in divorce then what you get if you do it now.


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## The Middleman

Malcolm38 said:


> Around Feb 7th I sent a certified letter to the office of the CEO of her company detailing the situation and all of the parties involved. Long story short, she and her super duper lover are on a 6-week unpaid leave of absence now.


This is the first time I've read your situation and I'm sorry that you have to digest the "sh1t sandwich" you wife is serving you. However, you are handling this far better than most. I applaud you for taking the steps you have and maintaining your self respect through this situation. 

I really want to say kudos for the above. As an executive in a company I can say that a six week unpaid leave of absence will most likely lead to a termination for either one or both of them. Far too many BH's are afraid to do this, but as someone who believes in both exposure and revenge, you did the right thing there. If you have the time to expand on what happened, I think it would be very helpful for other BH's who just won't pull the trigger on exposing work place infidelity.


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## F-102

Hmmm...if they wouldn't have been suspended, do you think that you would have heard hide or hair of her again?


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## tom67

F-102 said:


> Hmmm...if they wouldn't have been suspended, do you think that you would have heard hide or hair of her again?


No he wouldn't have. Keep working out and go out a few nights a week and don't say anything to her. Let her wonder where the f^ck you are and who you are with. I'm not saying cheat, but she won't be sure will she.


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## Malaise

F-102 said:


> Hmmm...if they wouldn't have been suspended, do you think that you would have heard hide or hair of her again?


Gee...hard to say

Just kidding, of course not.

She's only back because she may lose her job and she needs a place to stay.

Malcom, I know you realize this. Keep going with the D. As much as your kids may need a mother in their lives ( is she really a good mother?) you don't need her in yours.


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## LostAndContent

Stay strong Dude, and keep an eye on her. 

She's habitually lied to you and now knows you are checking her email. She'll be watching for that. You'll have to do something she isn't expecting to catch her if she's continuing to pursue other men (though it sounds like her current OM dumped her butt after exposure, so you might want to wait a while to let her line up a new boytoy). I'd suggest a keylogger on her computer and/or VAR in the car.


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## alte Dame

Your W is on the ropes to a certain degree, but please don't get overconfident. I would bet good money that the OM dumped her. This makes her vulnerable now in pretty much all respects and thus planning and plotting to save herself.

Your W is also one of the few entitled WS's who will actually let the truth slip about her internal calculations - she openly admitted that she expected you to think her such a treasure that you would let her have her fling and then welcome her back. Her tantrum about your 'selfishness' in this regard should help you see that she is insincere, disrespectful, and way, way too comfortable in her assumptions about 'Malcolm the Doormat.'

(I will tell you, Malcolm, the 'if you weren't so selfish you would love me enough to let me **** another man' speech should itself be clarifying enough to end any doubts you ever have about D.)


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## LostAndContent

alte Dame said:


> Your W is on the ropes to a certain degree, but please don't get overconfident. I would bet good money that the OM dumped her. This makes her vulnerable now in pretty much all respects and thus planning and plotting to save herself.
> 
> Your W is also one of the few entitled WS's who will actually let the truth slip about her internal calculations - she openly admitted that she expected you to think her such a treasure that you would let her have her fling and then welcome her back. Her tantrum about your 'selfishness' in this regard should help you see that she is insincere, disrespectful, and way, way too comfortable in her assumptions about 'Malcolm the Doormat.'
> 
> (I will tell you, Malcolm, the 'if you weren't so selfish you would love me enough to let me **** another man' speech should itself be clarifying enough to end any doubts you ever have about D.)


Translation: Your wife is that special kind of idiot who will let her true colors show when she gets emotional and starts arguing with you. She isn't good at lying on short notice and things will slip out. Don't let her rug-sweep these statements, immediately go on the attack. Get inside her OODA loop and she won't be able to adjust quickly enough to keep the truth from coming out.


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## Acabado

alte Dame said:


> (I will tell you, Malcolm, the 'if you weren't so selfish you would love me enough to let me **** another man' speech should itself be clarifying enough to end any doubts you ever have about D.)


Not only that, when she was forced to end this sh1it as you confronted the false R she chose to move away from her children to be close to this OM, she was willing to give up custody of her children for a "fling" which in her words would end on it's own. She couldn't renounce, such a huge sacrifice...
It speaks symphonies. The distance between you and her values is simply unmeasurable. She's all about self gratification, she's the entitlement made flesh. She will never renounce when the a new opportunity to get self gratification presents itself. 
BTW the fact they (WW, OM) are now aparently off doesn't mean they wo't get again at it even before the "unpaid" period expires, specially when she realizes you are not ther for her anymore as she expected.

I hope, for her own sake and you children she really realizes how seriously messed up she is, experience some sort of epiphany and get to redeem herself. It's possible. If she takes adventage of this blow and take a different path from now on it's irrelevant what acted as catalyst (*).

I would't take her back under any circunstance anyway.

(*) Crossing fingers, hope she gets the right IC instead of the typical one who will only help her cope with her losses, enable, justify her choices and let her off the hook with a pat on the back.


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## sandc

Malcom,
You don't sound confused at all. I know you probably are but you seem as if you have this all dialed in. I agree with your desire to proceed with divorce. Your wife killed this marriage and you're already checked out so just bury it. This is what her behavior has earned her.

However, IF you feel there is anything to salvage, then AFTER you divorce, you let her know she may compete with any other woman you happen to be dating for your attention. (a la Rookie)

My guess is that she won't want to put that much work into it.


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## hookares

Whatever she felt the other guy had to offer that caused her to cheat, is likely to get her to cheat again should the OP take her back.
Let her cheat on the next guy.


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## LostAndContent

sandc said:


> Malcom,
> You don't sound confused at all. I know you probably are but you seem as if you have this all dialed in. I agree with your desire to proceed with divorce. Your wife killed this marriage and you're already checked out so just bury it. This is what her behavior has earned her.
> 
> However, IF you feel there is anything to salvage, then AFTER you divorce, you let her know she may compete with any other woman you happen to be dating for your attention. (a la Rookie)
> 
> My guess is that she won't want to put that much work into it.


:iagree:


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## lordmayhem

jnj express said:


> Malcolm------its sad, but your wife nailed it right on the head didn't she
> 
> Your post of Jan 30th---the selfish post----to quote you and your wife----"she always thought you would take her back, when she was finished with her fling"
> 
> Your wife has had at least a 15th month A., with sex multiple times, and probably lots of it since she moved out---and here she is back home
> 
> I am sorry, but I don't want to hear about all the restrictions she has---that she has to do this, and she has to be gone by whenever---bottom line---"SHE CALLED THE SHOT"---she had her A., ended it for whatever reason, but is now back home.
> 
> I don't wanna hear about how you get nauseated by being around her-----and I don't wanna hear about how you are the winner---that she has come crawling back, and I don't wanna hear about how this is for the kids----again bottom line here is as follows----"YOUR WIFE CALLED HER SHOT, SHE HAD HER A., AND IS BACK HOME, AND SHE IS LIVING AS SHE WAS BEFORE", restrictions or not, reading what you say, you are already thinking up reasons, as to why she can stay
> 
> Call a spade a spade----your wife had her fling and is home---SAD TO SAY---SHE IS THE WINNER


:iagree:

Malcom, just want you to beware that the next step will be to seduce you. You know, "Please hug me?" which leads to other things. 

This is how its done to smooth things over until the storm (your anger passes), after which the affair will resume, just deeper underground. 

Whatever you do, don't trip and fall into her vagina. Hysterical Bonding (HB) would not be in your best interests right now.


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## jnj express

Hey Malcolm---a lot of others are saying---he threw her under the bus, he got tired of her----I don't see it that way----they would still be together---BUT-----

IMHO---Reality---hit both of them, they have no income, and probably are out of money---so she couldn't handle day to day, with him, if they can't eat,---she knows she has a right to come home---so that's what she has done

Do not let her live off of you---make sure all marital money, is in an acct., with ONLY YOUR NAME on it------cancel any CC's she is on------if she wants any money---let her find an interim job, or sell her belongings

Don't weaken your position, that is what I tried to push at you in my last post, hopefully you understood, where I was coming from, no matter how I stated it.

We all know her history---refused your R in July, refused your R with consequences in Dec.----even left the mge, and had her job moved so she could be with him, and carry on an intense A.---she could care less about her kids---and you---as to you, to her---believe me, you are nothing, nothing whatsoever---I take that back---you are the bank

I go back to your post of the 30th---when she said---she always thought she could have her A., and you would take her back when it was over------Please---Do not let that happen-----do not weaken your positions on anything----and stay away from her----I can promise you, if she survivies this, and it is because of you, and her, and her lover, get back to some type of normalcy in their lives, she will leave you IN A FLASH, and run right back to him----DO NOT LET HER WIN!!!!!!!


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## Doyle

Hi Malcolm just wanted to say despite being in shock initially and acting weak. 
You've really done well with all this and I geuss thats what your wifes seeing right now good work.

Oh and it goes without saying end of the month boot her out.


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## turnera

Don't make any decisions one way or the other. Your emotions will bounce all over the place. And you'd need to see consistent change in her to consider R - and that will take time. You're in no rush.


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## Malcolm38

I know to some on this forum that I've "lost" by letting my future ex-wife live back in the house for the month of March while she finds a place. However I'm not interested in a war or "punishment" of anyone at that point. There is no marriage and will not be a marriage to work on at this point anyway. She will be out by April 1. 

None of this is easy at all, but I do feel a small slice of peace or serenity since I have decided to go forward with the divorce. The decision has been made and there is no talking about it as far as I'm concerned, except if it's to go over terms.

The future ex and I talk briefly in the early evenings. She makes dinner for the girls. For me too in theory, but I run to get something to eat on my own on the way home from work. 

In the later evenings I work the exercise bike in the basement once the girls are in bed. So we aren't bonding really. She'll ask to talk every so often, but I have been clear that the time to talk was in the past and not now. 

I'm not interested in dating at this time. I'd enjoy having a period of time with no woman in my life, to be honest. That isn't meant as a sexist dig that it sounds like. And I do find myself attracted to women all of the time. I just could use the mental break from being in a relationship. In 2013 I'm going to be 100% single. 

I think of my ex as being a good mother. She was certainly distracted for the last number of months, but even in that phase she was at least half-azzed about her duties as opposed to completely negligent. She doesn't deserve an award of valor for that, but I'm not going to punish my daughters by fighting to keep their mother out of their lives. 

Honestly, for all I know she could be getting mounted by some guy in the Dairy Queen parking lot every day. As far as I'm concerned, if that was indeed happening I would race over to the Dairy Queen and buy myself some ice cream and wave at her while I left. She's not mine anymore.


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## walkonmars

Impressive Malcolm. Very impressed with your ability to assess your reality and come to terms with it. 

I think you're on the right track regarding your 'singlehood' for at least the rest of this year. Self-reflect on the things that are important in you life and concentrate on those. 

You seem to be at peace with yourself and that's huge. I wish others faced with your situation could find the peace you've found.


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## happyman64

Why on earyh would you think we would give you anymore hell than your wifehas already given you.

I am sad that you lost your marriage but am glad that your STBXW is backto acting like their mother.

You have a plan!

That shows that you are in control of your life again Malcolm.

I look forward to you moving forward, loving your kids by being the Dad they need and you finding love again from a woman that you trust/loves you like you deserve.

Keep going in the right direction.

HM64


----------



## eric415

Well done Malcolm. I have similar feelings about my STBEXW. I no longer have any romantic/loving feelings for her. What she did somehow destroyed those. And the weird part, it feels liberating in some regards. I feel like I can find myself again and that what it sounds like you're doing. You are doing better than me as I don't know if I can be in her presence right now. I don't have kids though so I can be more selfish. Ready your story is inspirational. It has given me strength in my decisions and shows me that I'm not the only one going through this that has similar feelings.


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## barcafan

Malcolm38 said:


> I know to some on this forum that I've "lost" by letting my future ex-wife live back in the house for the month of March while she finds a place. However I'm not interested in a war or "punishment" of anyone at that point. There is no marriage and will not be a marriage to work on at this point anyway. She will be out by April 1.
> 
> None of this is easy at all, but I do feel a small slice of peace or serenity since I have decided to go forward with the divorce. The decision has been made and there is no talking about it as far as I'm concerned, except if it's to go over terms.
> 
> The future ex and I talk briefly in the early evenings. She makes dinner for the girls. For me too in theory, but I run to get something to eat on my own on the way home from work.
> 
> In the later evenings I work the exercise bike in the basement once the girls are in bed. So we aren't bonding really. She'll ask to talk every so often, but I have been clear that the time to talk was in the past and not now.
> 
> I'm not interested in dating at this time. I'd enjoy having a period of time with no woman in my life, to be honest. That isn't meant as a sexist dig that it sounds like. And I do find myself attracted to women all of the time. I just could use the mental break from being in a relationship. In 2013 I'm going to be 100% single.
> 
> I think of my ex as being a good mother. She was certainly distracted for the last number of months, but even in that phase she was at least half-azzed about her duties as opposed to completely negligent. She doesn't deserve an award of valor for that, but I'm not going to punish my daughters by fighting to keep their mother out of their lives.
> 
> Honestly, for all I know she could be getting mounted by some guy in the Dairy Queen parking lot every day. As far as I'm concerned, if that was indeed happening I would race over to the Dairy Queen and buy myself some ice cream and wave at her while I left. She's not mine anymore.



Well done Malcom and Eric, I think all of the BS on this forum can benefit from the strength you have shown in handling yourselves in probably the most difficult time of your lives.

:allhail:


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## Mtts

Congratulations on getting to a state of definitive direction. It's one that is difficult to really acheive. I myself am not even totally sure I'm there even during R. 

You've got a chance to start over, with a wiser and stronger view of the world. It's hard as it's taken a really dramatic event to push this to happening. However given your careful and analytical demeanor about this whole ordeal you're going to be just fine.

I'm proud of you (with as much impact as a strangers words can mean) and think that your two girls are incredibly lucky to have someone with the kind of wisdom and strength you possess.

Best of luck in this next chapter and please keep this updated, as it's a testament of true courage in the face of horrible circumstances.


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## VFW

I think that you have done quite well after a slow start. I too made the same mistake of trusting my wife and assuming that it was over. Naturally you know what happens when you assume. The fact that you are able to allow her back is actually a testimony as to how far you have come. Also I applaud the fact that you are waiting on dating again. I believe that it is always best to end one relationship, before starting another. The excise routine will make you healthier and more appealing when the time does come to date. I would also encourage you to look into new hobbies that you have always wanted to try. I don't have to tell you that the girls best interest is what needs to be foremost as you go through the divorce process. Hang tough cowboy.


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## Lost at sea

Kind of scared but wanted to just let everyone know where we are at right now,,,,,"Malcolm" is my husband and we have been having trouble the past couple of months due to my cheating. He told me about this form yesterday and that it's been of help to him. I just asked him if he was seeing some therapy since he is so angry and he isn't, but it posting on this site. I read it and found his story. I've asked him if I could post on this site and he said "do what you want. So I hope this will be okay.

My husband has always been a good man and provider. I think someone along the line we both sort of got too comfortable. Where he would join clubs and activities I ended up wanting more attention. Eventualy I found it elsewhere, which is totally my fault. The truth hurts, but it needs to be stated. In our 18 years together and 17 married I've had 2 affairs. He knows about this after we talked yetersday. One was a one night deal 10 years ago when I was at a seminar. The other was with the guy who I was seeing when my husband broke up with me for my adultery. 

Why did it happen? I'm selfish. I liked having two men in my life. I enjoyed the attention. The guy was reallyl happy to see me when we met at different places. I thought it was "real" and felt torn

Long story short my husband notified our employer and we were both suspended for immoral conduct. I was so hurt when it was first done, then I relazied that I brought it on myself. I was ashamed and found that I couldn't do what I was doing anymore with this other guy. I told him I was leaving and wanted my hubby back. He actually didn't seem to care that much and once the job thing broke down he became really a different person. I knew it wasn't a real love on both of our ends at that point.I've been home a few weeks now, and I am finding a place nearby to be with my family as much as possible. My husband won't let me stay past this month, and I understand that. I dont deserve to be treated with warmth by him right now. I just hope he knows one day how much I'm sorry.I dont deseve anything from my hubby, but it really hurts to see that he seems to hate me right now.


----------



## Chaparral

Lost at sea said:


> Kind of scared but wanted to just let everyone know where we are at right now,,,,,"Malcolm" is my husband and we have been having trouble the past couple of months due to my cheating. He told me about this form yesterday and that it's been of help to him. I just asked him if he was seeing some therapy since he is so angry and he isn't, but it posting on this site. I read it and found his story. I've asked him if I could post on this site and he said "do what you want. So I hope this will be okay.
> 
> My husband has always been a good man and provider. I think someone along the line we both sort of got too comfortable. Where he would join clubs and activities I ended up wanting more attention. Eventualy I found it elsewhere, which is totally my fault. The truth hurts, but it needs to be stated. In our 18 years together and 17 married I've had 2 affairs. He knows about this after we talked yetersday. One was a one night deal 10 years ago when I was at a seminar. The other was with the guy who I was seeing when my husband broke up with me for my adultery.
> 
> Why did it happen? I'm selfish. I liked having two men in my life. I enjoyed the attention. The guy was reallyl happy to see me when we met at different places. I thought it was "real" and felt torn
> 
> Long story short my husband notified our employer and we were both suspended for immoral conduct. I was so hurt when it was first done, then I relazied that I brought it on myself. I was ashamed and found that I couldn't do what I was doing anymore with this other guy. I told him I was leaving and wanted my hubby back. He actually didn't seem to care that much and once the job thing broke down he became really a different person. I knew it wasn't a real love on both of our ends at that point.I've been home a few weeks now, and I am finding a place nearby to be with my family as much as possible. My husband won't let me stay past this month, and I understand that. I dont deserve to be treated with warmth by him right now. I just hope he knows one day how much I'm sorry.I dont deseve anything from my hubby, but it really hurts to see that he seems to hate me right now.


But how would you feel if he did what you have done? How many chances has he given you and you just rubbed his nose in it? I trully feel sorry for how you have messed up your family and your life. Are you wanting him to take you back now? How could he possibly trust you?


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## walkonmars

Lost at Sea 

I'm not going to berate you. You chose your path. As these things usually go, the path led to disaster. It would be one thing if it was only yourself you hurt. 

You need to seek therapy from a competent counselor. One that is experienced in addictions and infidelity. Malcolm is an incredibly decent man. He could have done you much harm. 

At this moment you are in a panic. You've lost your OM, you are having to find other quarters, you have to make up with your daughters, your job is in jeopardy. 

Yes it's panic time. It may be that you're being benevolent to Malcolm because of the panic. I must tell you that he'll be warned here to be wary of you in the not to distant future. Once the panic settles and you start to think about "ME" again he may be in for a long legal battle. 

So, I'll implore you now to resist "getting your's back" when you're emotions are more settled. First work on yourself. Make amends as best you can with your girls. Apologize to Malcolm when/if you "feel it for real". Do it thoughtfully, in a letter without trying to excuse your behavior. Try to get a different job. The job you have now, even if in a different location from your xOM is still a trigger for all three of you. It doesn't matter that you divorce. You still need a different job - unless you see a real future with the xOM. 

I'm sure Malcolm (like any other man/husband) has faults. Faults are easy to pick at. Resist that urge. Bear your cross. Keep in mind that Malcolm has been very gracious to you. He's quite a man. He had the capacity to hurt you badly and didn't. Don't take the ultimatum that you leave the marital home as a devious or vengeful act. He is protecting his emotions. You were supposed to help him do that. 

In due time you will come to know yourself. When you do, you may be able to form a bond with a worthwhile person. You should resist forming relationships until you know yourself much better.


----------



## walkonmars

Lost at Sea

If you have a thick skin and don't mind getting bruised every once in a while (truth can hurt) you might want to start your own thread. 

It can be beneficial. There are many wise posters on these boards. Many have seen their dreams shattered and have rebuilt. You may get a harsh word or two but the advice can be priceless. Don't substitute it for professional counseling but if you can stand a little bit of heat it may be a worthwhile endeavor. 

If you decide to start your thread you should link this thread to yours for posters to gain insight. But this thread should remain mostly as Malcolm's sounding board. You can read and post here with his permission but I fear his voice will be lost if the space is shared with you. Ask him.


----------



## MattMatt

"You both got too comfortable."

Well, no, that's not really what happened, is it? *One* of you thought: "I'll get some exciting affair sex outside the marriage. My spouse is so clueless, they'll never know. And they probably will not care, anyway."

Well, guess what? They *do* know and they *do* care.

_What are *you* going to do now_?


----------



## Jasel

Is Malcolm doing okay?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

*""I just asked him if he was seeing some therapy since he is so angry and he isn't, but it posting on this site. I read it and found his story. I've asked him if I could post on this site and he said "do what you want. So I hope this will be okay.""* 

Well, I wonder how long Malcolm will stick around now... When ever the WS starts posting it seems like the interactions between the BS and the WS on here turn into sparing matches. I really feel for this guy. He didn't deserve any of this.


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## Acabado

Lost at sea said:


> The other was with the guy who I was seeing when my husband broke up with me for my adultery.
> 
> Why did it happen? I'm selfish. I liked having two men in my life. I enjoyed the attention. The guy was reallyl happy to see me when we met at different places. I thought it was "real" and felt torn


If we were to read your post we could believe it's the real story.
The thing is you were busted time ago, yeah you wanted your cake, as any other cheater, but then lied again and went underground with the cake eating instead of behaving with some semblance of honor.
Your husband didn't broke up with you, you were given the chance to make amends, twice, to rebuild your marriage only you only wanted your husbad for very selfish reasons. You used him again.

The last time you knew you had to choose and boy you did. You chose OM even knowing it was not love and likely wouldn't last. It's horrible, horrible. It will be a time you will have to explain it to your children, why you destroyed their stability for... nothing. I hope you can provide an answer who teaches them because by then you learned this is no way to live.


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## MattMatt

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> *""I just asked him if he was seeing some therapy since he is so angry and he isn't, but it posting on this site. I read it and found his story. I've asked him if I could post on this site and he said "do what you want. So I hope this will be okay.""*
> 
> Well, I wonder how long Malcolm will stick around now... When ever the WS starts posting it seems like the interactions between the BS and the WS on here turn into sparing matches. I really feel for this guy. He didn't deserve any of this.


Not always. There are notable exceptions.


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## Cdelta02

Lost at sea said:


> Kind of scared but wanted to just let everyone know where we are at right now,,,,,"Malcolm" is my husband and we have been having trouble the past couple of months due to my cheating. He told me about this form yesterday and that it's been of help to him. I just asked him if he was seeing some therapy since he is so angry and he isn't, but it posting on this site. I read it and found his story. I've asked him if I could post on this site and he said "do what you want. So I hope this will be okay.
> 
> My husband has always been a good man and provider. I think someone along the line we both sort of got too comfortable. Where he would join clubs and activities I ended up wanting more attention. Eventualy I found it elsewhere, which is totally my fault. The truth hurts, but it needs to be stated. In our 18 years together and 17 married I've had 2 affairs. He knows about this after we talked yetersday. One was a one night deal 10 years ago when I was at a seminar. The other was with the guy who I was seeing when my husband broke up with me for my adultery.
> 
> Why did it happen? I'm selfish. I liked having two men in my life. I enjoyed the attention. The guy was reallyl happy to see me when we met at different places. I thought it was "real" and felt torn
> 
> Long story short my husband notified our employer and we were both suspended for immoral conduct. I was so hurt when it was first done, then I relazied that I brought it on myself. I was ashamed and found that I couldn't do what I was doing anymore with this other guy. I told him I was leaving and wanted my hubby back. He actually didn't seem to care that much and once the job thing broke down he became really a different person. I knew it wasn't a real love on both of our ends at that point.I've been home a few weeks now, and I am finding a place nearby to be with my family as much as possible. My husband won't let me stay past this month, and I understand that. I dont deserve to be treated with warmth by him right now. I just hope he knows one day how much I'm sorry.I dont deseve anything from my hubby, but it really hurts to see that he seems to hate me right now.


Prove your penance. Sign a post nup giving up your rights to his money and putting the children in his care and drop it in his lap on Monday. I don't believe you will, but hey, if you want to show that you are truly repentant and your eyes have been opened, do this.


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## Wazza

LostAtSea, we will help where we can, but it will be rough.

From Malcolm's story, it seems like you were happy to leave him for OM, and surrender custody of your kids. That is pretty disturbing. 

I agree with the suggestion you should start your own thread and announce it here. You won't get professional advice, but you will get many people who have experienced infidelity in relationships. 

A word of warning. I have seen cases where cheaters come here and seek to lie to the forum as a means to get their spouse back. I would strongly advise you not to attempt that, since if you get caught out (and I think you probably would) it gets pretty rough.


----------



## alte Dame

You actually sound very selfish. I'm not talking about what your actions say. I'm referring to the voice you have in your post. You sound like someone who takes her husband's feelings very lightly, like someone who takes her marriage for granted, like it's just not such a big deal if you betray Malcolm, like it's perfectly understandable to test the waters with someone else.

What a shock for a man to discover that he and his wife are on truly different wavelengths. Poor Malcolm.


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## Chaparral

Can you express how it feels when you have given up so much for what turns out to be so little?


----------



## warlock07

What was your plan when you did not end the affair the first time he found out?


----------



## happyman64

So Lost you cheated not once but twice.

And Malcolm now knows this.

Can I give you a little advice. Tell Malcolm everything if you ave not already done so.

You see Lost, cheating kills marriages most of the time. But lying over time, giving only enough without admitting to more bad choices (trickle truth) not only destroys the marriage but destroys both spouses souls......

So I guess you realize the OM just wanted sex. You wanted sex, the thrill of cheating and attention from another man.

What is going to stop you from doing it again?

You already lost your husband.
You abandoned your marriage.
You left your kids.
You have lost your job?

What do you have to lose to stop your horrible choices??? To stop your lies and cheating???

I think you should start your own thread. And tell us what you are looking for?

What do you really want out of life?

HM64


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## keko

"It hurts to see him hate you?"

Wow. 

I must have read hundreds of wayward spouses post but you sure are the worst out of them.

Now that your husband is done with you, you've lost everything, you come here to convince him otherwise? Yea, I believe you're quite sincere with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

Lost at sea said:


> Kind of scared but wanted to just let everyone know where we are at right now,,,,,"Malcolm" is my husband and *we have been having trouble the past couple of months due to my cheating.* *(Is this the understatement of the year, or what?* He told me about this form yesterday and that it's been of help to him. *I just asked him if he was seeing some therapy since he is so angry * *(I just re-read some of this stuff and, I must admit, I don't see how he could be anything but angry at you after the way you cheated him; I think it's normal at this point)*and he isn't, but it posting on this site. I read it and found his story. I've asked him if I could post on this site and he said "do what you want. So I hope this will be okay.
> 
> *My husband has always been a good man and provider. (Not too much love here - a good man and provider, but not much in the love department)* I think someone along the line we both sort of got too comfortable. Where he would join clubs and activities I ended up wanting more attention. Eventualy I found it elsewhere, which is totally my fault. The truth hurts, but it needs to be stated. In our 18 years together and 17 married I've had 2 affairs. *He knows about this after we talked yetersday.* _* (After all the lies, why would he believe you now?)*_ One was a one night deal 10 years ago when I was at a seminar. The other was with *the guy who I was seeing when my husband broke up with me *for my adultery.
> 
> Why did it happen? I'm selfish. I liked having two men in my life. I enjoyed the attention. The guy was reallyl happy to see me when we met at different places. *I thought it was "real"* and felt torn.
> 
> Long story short my husband notified our employer and we were both suspended for immoral conduct. I was so hurt when it was first done, then I relazied that I brought it on myself. I was ashamed and found that I couldn't do what I was doing anymore with this other guy. I told him I was leaving and wanted my hubby back. He actually didn't seem to care that much and *once the job thing broke down he became really a different person*. *I knew it wasn't a real love on both of our ends at that point.*I've been home a few weeks now, and I am finding a place nearby to be with my family as much as possible. My husband won't let me stay past this month, and I understand that. I dont deserve to be treated with warmth by him right now. I just hope he knows one day how much I'm sorry.I dont deseve anything from my hubby, but it really hurts to see that he seems to hate me right now.


You have been very cruel to your husband. I can guarantee you that if there has been anyone who has HATED your husband during his entire life, that they did not do anything nearly as hurtful or hateful as you did. Cheated on him, then lied to him about it, then tried to deceive him and manipulate him while you continued the affair, then moved to be with the other man, moving away from your own daughters (what kind of mother does this?). Only when your world was turned upside down by being suspended from your job due to your cheating (your husband has posted that he resents that this was the only thing that got your attention) and other man "became really a different person" did you go back to your husband.

*So how is your husband supposed to feel about this? You love him so much that you only came back to him after you realized other man was not for you. NOT because you realized your husband was the love of your life, but because other man "became really a different person" and you decided your husband actually was the better, more convenient alternative. THE BACKUP PLAN. PLAN B.* 

It's the lying and deception AFTER the affair has been discovered that does the most damage.

He found out when the other man texted you "what color underwear do you have on?" Sounds more like an immature teenager than a 30-something married mother of two.

You said some pretty messed up stuff to him. How about this:

_I told her I needed her to write down her passwords for her e-mail accounts (work and home). She said that was an invasion of her privacy. I mentioned that in order for the marriage to work her privacy was secondary. She was angry at that point and said that I didn't even want to try to work things out and that I was punishing her.​_
or this:

_She was apologetic, and said that she would go into No Contract with the OM and that she wanted her family back. She also wanted to to to MC and look into why she did the thing she did. Friday night I saw her send a NC letter via e-mail to her boyfriend. I let her come back home Saturday, and we were going to make a MC appointment at the beginning of the year. She agreed to let me know here passwords and that she wanted a "new start" and to for us to know "everything" about each other. Yesterday evening we were watching a movie upstairs in our bedroom and the girls were downstairs. After about an hour her phone rings and she starts talking, then goes into the bathroom to talk. It was a lot of "Yes" "No" "We'll see" "Not now", etc. Obviously my red light goes on. She comes out and I ask her who the hell that was. She then told me that she had called him earlier in the day because she wanted to see if we was okay. He was just calling her back and they were "ending it" formally with "no hard feelings".  I told her that I think she's actually given him a lot of hard feelings. She looked hurt that I dared make a joke about her wounded friendship.​_
or this gem:

_The long and short of it is that my stbxw told me after the Holiday that she wanted to work on making our marriage "stronger than ever", but that she didn't want to end contact with her boyfriend because she thought he was a good man who is a good friend for her. Also, that I shouldn't try to control her. I'm obviously summarizing the conversation, but that truly is the jist of it. It appears that her special friend has made it possible for her to be transferred to the office he works in a number of miles away. She has accepted and stated to me that perhaps it's best if I have custody of our daughters "for now" while she "finds herself". She also stated to me that she always thought she would be able to get back into my life when this fling was done because she thought I'd always be there for her. But I am too selfish to really show her that I care, and that I'll always be selfish. I could be wrong of course, but I do think that perhaps getting nailed by a co-worker while wearing my wedding ring might put her higher on the selfish ratings chart than my not wanting to be BFF's with her right now. But maybe I'm just too cold to see how mean I am. Honestly, all of this really sucks. I feel rather dead inside right now.​_
Or this:

_My thought was that this whole thing blowing up at work would turn this situation into WW3. She was all weepy the evening of it all going down and accusing me of trying to ruin her life, etc. I have seen the letter of NC to her boytoy. This is take 2 of course, so you'll have to excuse me for not being all weepy with joy about it.​_
You left your husband of 17 years for some guy you were screwing at work who showed you attention by texting you each morning to ask what color underwear you were wearing.

Now you are here posting about how "we have been having trouble the past couple of months" and how he is not in therapy and he is so angry. Are your husband's posts factually incorrect, or are you minimizing the depth of your betrayal?


----------



## gbonham77

Lost at sea said:


> Kind of scared but wanted to just let everyone know where we are at right now,,,,,"Malcolm" is my husband and we have been having trouble the past couple of months due to my cheating. He told me about this form yesterday and that it's been of help to him. I just asked him if he was seeing some therapy since he is so angry and he isn't, but it posting on this site. I read it and found his story. I've asked him if I could post on this site and he said "do what you want. So I hope this will be okay.
> 
> My husband has always been a good man and provider. I think someone along the line we both sort of got too comfortable. Where he would join clubs and activities I ended up wanting more attention. Eventualy I found it elsewhere, which is totally my fault. The truth hurts, but it needs to be stated. In our 18 years together and 17 married I've had 2 affairs. He knows about this after we talked yetersday. One was a one night deal 10 years ago when I was at a seminar. The other was with the guy who I was seeing when my husband broke up with me for my adultery.
> 
> Why did it happen? I'm selfish. I liked having two men in my life. I enjoyed the attention. The guy was reallyl happy to see me when we met at different places. I thought it was "real" and felt torn
> 
> Long story short my husband notified our employer and we were both suspended for immoral conduct. I was so hurt when it was first done, then I relazied that I brought it on myself. I was ashamed and found that I couldn't do what I was doing anymore with this other guy. I told him I was leaving and wanted my hubby back. He actually didn't seem to care that much and once the job thing broke down he became really a different person. I knew it wasn't a real love on both of our ends at that point.I've been home a few weeks now, and I am finding a place nearby to be with my family as much as possible. My husband won't let me stay past this month, and I understand that. I dont deserve to be treated with warmth by him right now. I just hope he knows one day how much I'm sorry.I dont deseve anything from my hubby, but* it really hurts to see that he seems to hate me right now*.


it hurts? .... where were when you hate him and his family(not yours anymore as youre cheating S***) by having affair .. never think it will be easy


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## sandc

LaS, I suggest you start your own thread. Let your husband have his own thread. There are other WS (wayward spouses) on the forum that can help you realize and deal with what you've done and what you're in for.


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## Malaise

She was selfish and took Malcom for granted.

She thought what she had with OM was real and in the back of mind thought that Malcom would be there to take her back in the unlikely ( to her) event that she and OM would split.

I don't think that she considered Malcom doing what he did and now she finds her world falling apart.

No Husband : ( not that she cared for him but he was security)

No OM : he was the excitement that she thought she needed and, gosh, it was really true love! 

She gave up her children * her chldren* just for another c0ck basically.

Her job is in danger

She has no place to live

And now, only now, is she caring. 

I wonder why that is.


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## Decorum

Lost at sea,

Generally people who are lost at sea hope to find their way back.

It can be hard for a woman to understand what a man goes through because of their infidelity.

You have noticed Malcolm’s anger and wonder if he is getting help for it, you wonder in your own heart if it is a sign that he truly hates you and will forever be done with you.

Let me try to help you understand the path he is on, because the path he is on has a beginning and a destination, if you meet him at the destination it will truly be too late for you.

Having said that though let’s be honest, you are not just wanting to find your way back to Malcolm, you need to find your way back to the person you were meant to be, if that is even possible anymore.

Without being to technical please understands that a man is wired to see his wife as if she were part of his own body. Men bond chemically with a woman more slowly than a woman does with a man, the bonding for a man and woman both include actual physical connections in the brain that wire-up as a result of shared time together.

The man bonds more slowly because of the way his two brains communicate with each other, by the time he feels the bond it is hard and fast. Btw because of this the bond when broken, takes longer to heal as well.

The other thing you need to know to understand the path Malcolm is on is that a man is wired in his more primal brains to protect and provide. The anger you see results from the release of chemicals that create a fight of flight response. Anger is an action emotion.

Your husband sees you are a part of him and is genetically wired to protect you or die trying.

Lost at sea I am a fairly mild mannered man, but when my house was broken into with my young children in it, my response even scared me.

Here is the rub (Rub#1), he see
s you as part of himself, he is wired to protect you at all costs, and then you made a series of choices that strike at the very heart of that union, he cannot just switch off his manhood, but he has no object for his anger that does not hurt himself.

You have become the enemy that he is supposed to protect you from. It’s a no win situation for a man.

It creates an emotional conflict of the first order, everything in his being is calling for him to act to protect you but you are the cause of the thereat itself, so to act against you is self-defeating.

Sometime back it was reported in the news about a hiker whose hand was caught in a crevis and to save his live he had to sever his own hand, you husband is faced with a similar horrifying situation, he has to sever from himself what was a most precious part of his being.

He has no outlet for his anger. He can only wait it out.

This results in rub#2. Because he is so strongly bonded to you he has been traumatized by your infidelity.

The same brain pathways are involved as for a soldier with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

Your actions of infidelity have guaranteed that for approx. the next 5 years and hopefully for an ever decreasing amount for the rest of his life he will have reoccurring thoughts of you giving yourself to your other man, and the feelings of distress, and pain will be as real as the day he first found out.

This is not something he chose, it’s something you chose for him, and its not something he can un-chose or turn off.

He is on this path now and he will have to walk it and complete it if he is to ever move on with his life. Something he must do at the very lease for the sake of his children.

It is commonly understood here that the opposite of love is not hate but indifference.

And it is toward indifference that Malcolm is heading. 

You are familiar with indifference, it is what you feel when someone (i.e. you husband and children) is/are moved away from your emotional center and replaced with another. 

Indifference makes you relatively un-emphatic with another’s suffering. Like the thousands of people who die in an natural disaster, you may feel bad for them, but oh hey there is a McDonalds I need hit the drive through for a coffee, yes so thousands died in a natural disaster, next news spot who is going to be in the final four. You get the idea.

This is where your family, their needs, feelings, and futures were as you were pursuing you other man.

They were moved away from your emotional center and replaced with another. 

In Malcolm’s case we generally encourage people to move toward indifference but not to put another “significant other” at their emotional center, but to work on themselves, learn to love themself and from that position of strength to engage in relationships in a healthy self-giving but not self-surrendering way.

The fact that Malcolm is still dealing with anger (still = very normal at this point) indicated that the he is still re-writing the bonding that he had with you. 

The physical connections and even the electrical charge for each and every memory never go away, but we re-write the circuit with new additional information every time we re-live it, as our brain works through the grieving process in an effort to achieve balance again in life.

The anger is like the glow of the embers in a camp fire, its evidence that a chemical change is taking place in the fire and transforming elements from a reactive state to a non-reactive state.

Balance means equilibrium; the forces at work on us pull equally. If you meet Malcolm at the point of balance (indifference), his desire to be with you will be the same as his desire to not be, in other words he will not care for you nor hate you. He might stop to talk with you or realize he needs a cup of coffee and turn into McDonalds. It’s never this clean cut but its close enough.

What can you ever do to make this up to him, or your children?

You say it was selfish, true enough. This is of course a reason not an excuse, there is no excuse. It’s a reason that speaks to your need to find your way back to the person you were meant to be, if possible.

God forbid that it should ever happen, but what if one of your dear daughters was raped by a child predator, forever scarred in her relationships, and suffered PTSD for the rest of her life.

Would you be happy with that predators statement that he was sorry, he realizes it was selfish?

It is a selfishness beyond recovery, beyond remorse, beyond coming back from; thank God you are not that selfish, right?

The truth is that many wayward spouses are almost that selfish, cause almost that much pain and will very likely never be able to face it.

How do you find your way back from throwing away those who should mean the most to you, all for some POS that wanted to soak his worm in a wet vagina?

It very clear to me from your post that you are still seeking your own happiness, without understanding the damage you have done, I see no genuine remorsefulness. You concern for him is dripping with your own self-interest; I think it would be clear to almost anyone who would read your post.

How will you come back from this?

How will you find true remorsefulness?

On occasion we read about someone who miraculously has been recovered from being lost at sea for a long time, its miraculous because most never make it back, they enter into the darkness, alone, unknown, and unloved.

The miracle needed here is for you to truly find your shame!

When you do that your number one goal will be to heal the damage you have caused, without thought for your personal benefit.

I hope for the best, but I fear the worst!



ps. I do not mean to imply that I would encourage Malcolm to R here , I actually think the opposite, But no one is disposable, and there are two little girls who deserve a mother who is a decent human being. I hope for their sakes she finds her way back to decency!


----------



## Decorum

Malcolm,

You have done well. I just want to cheer you on, you will get through this.

I hope you dont mind my extended post.

It sucks that you had a second d-day on what I suppose was Thursday the 14.

7 plus years into your marriage and 10 years ago. 

My Gosh, I'm so sorry.

I dont want to sound like I am giving any advise so I just wish you well.

Take care!


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## jnj express

Hey Lost At Sea-----to quote you---He seems to hate me right now-------why would he hate you----how can we count the ways

Lets see for starters---the last TEN YEARS of your mge., have been a lie---you have come home every night looked your H., in the eye and said everything was fine---even as you knew you allowed a foreign object into your mge., and spit on your vows----even as you allowed yourself and your H., to create another child, to be brought into this farce of a mge. that you want to continue to exist----you were obviously gonna take your dirty little secret of your ONS to the grave with you---WHY REVEAL IT NOW---or do you just enjoy injecting pain into those who really, truly thought you were the cat's meow.

Next you reject your H's attempts to fight for and save a mge, that you could care less about----you rejected his attempts to save what might be left so your children---the children that came from YOU, could possibly have a normal upbringing----what did you do, you ran off with your lover, stating another of your MULTITUDE OF LIES---you needed time to figure it all out

Do we need any other reasons for your H to hate you---do you understand anything at all, about the destruction you have wrought

Just out of curiosity-------tell us, how a mother could just leave her own children, for no other reason, than she got some erotic satisfaction in spreading her legs, for some scumbag lowlife, who talked her into this action, so he himself could have some physical gratification------DO YOU THE "F" HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHAT LIFE IS ALL ABOUT

You are here and you need to realize 1st and foremost----you are still being SELFISH, you came home, cuz you had no other options----

---YOU LEFT YOUR FAMILY------

WHY DID YOU COME BACK--------you will never understand, until you can become completely SELFLESS, and right now, you are a million miles from that mental state!!!!!!!


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## warlock07

One Night Stand 10 years back and then an affair last year. Nothing in between ? Considering how entitled she acted, I would have a hard time believing this.


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## warlock07

All the BS that were scared or hesitant to expose their wives for better alimony settlements should read this thread). I have not read one post on TAM where the exposure resulted in better alimony. If anything, it helped the WW face the reality.


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## JCD

Okay...now that the venting is over.

Lost...the only thing which will turn this trainwreck around is grace, pure and simple. What is grace? Grace is *unearned* forgiveness. Because how do you take back or make up for actions such as this? What could your husband do to 'make things up' if he cheated on you?

Nothing comes easily to mind...or even with a lot of thought.

So your only prayer is grace: unearned forgiveness from your husband.

It takes a great deal of love to attempt that. The only thing, the ONLY thing you have going for you right now is your genetic connection to your kids...and even that is worn to a thread.

This is not an easy path you want to walk. Think very carefully before you try to do this, because if you have a shred of your soul left, if you walk into this without a *clear* and *total* commitment, you will hurt the spirits of your husband and children.

This didn't stop you before.

Here is a short list of things which you can do to show remorse. They are hard, VERY hard to live with, particularly for a woman who hates 'controlling' men and loves her 'privacy' (to behave badly).

Give up the right to email

Give up the right to social networking

Never EVER leave your husband's side at any social gathering. EVER.

Never be seen talking privately to another man who isn't a relative or your husband.

Never ever spend a night without your husband.

Have GPS tracking on your cell phone...constantly!

Being able to repeat, if not verbaitum your phone conversations with anyone, at least the gist.

Being aware that a single lie of commission (TELLING a lie) or ommission (KEEPING information from your husband) will probably destroy your marriage. Yes, even crap you think 'doesn't matter'.

***

We had this one woman who cheated on her husband...was caught...cheated AGAIN...lied and covered up...and he finally left.

Her husband felt he had to move. So she started packing up her career and figured she would move wherever the hell he ended up. No promise of staying together. She owed it to her husband and her son to be available if they needed ANYTHING! A babysitter if the husband dated. A nurse for the kid. 

She had to go out of town for two weeks (prior obligation there was no way out of). She BROUGHT A CHAPERONE WITH HER! She carried a voice recorder which would last for two weeks straight of memory so she could record every word she said with anyone AND WAS GLAD TO DO IT!

In olden times, trust was a very precious commodity...because there was little to be had. So what do you two when two people who hate each other's guts do to make the other trust them? They used hostages.

Don't even try with the kids. They weren't valuable enough to you before. Why should your husband trust you t that now?

But there is something you love. Something you don't or can't live without. An inheritance. Some beloved keepsake that you've shouted at your husband about. A piece of art. Something.

You give it to him. You give him custody of the kids. You do that post nup.

Because, and I hate to say this, but it's true: you are not trustworthy.

So you don't get any credit in the relationship. You need to pay cash on the barrelhead, all day, every day. Every single thing you did in the past to 'build up credit' is gone. Everything.

***

Now...to the other posters. I would suggest a bit more discretion in your comments. She might be, as described, the most selfish human being in existance...or she might finally be coming out of the fog.

In the one case, anything Malcom does is a waste of time. If it's the second...well, no need to chase away a POTENTIAL repentant.

We'll wait and see what Malcom has to say about her ACTIONS.


----------



## Numbersixxx

I think Malcolm is dealing with a serial cheater. There are probably more than two affairs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jnj express

Hey JCD---would you take her back

How do you resign yourself to looking at a person, I won't dirty up the word wife, or mother, with this woman------person will do-------how can you stand to look at her----THE ONLY REASON SHE IS BACK IS CUZ THE BOSS CANNED HER AND HER LOVER, AND REALITY SET IN

They would still be on their hot fling, in another city, had Malcolm not gone to the boss------how long was she gonna stay with her lover---until HIS SEX became boring---and then as she previously stated---"I always thot my H. would take me back after I had my fling"--------What does one say to that----what does one say to this person who is back---not for love, not cuz she wants to be her children's good and wonderful mother----BUT CUZ SHE HAD NO WHERE ELSE TO GO

How do you look/touch/talk to a person like that---what is there to say-------remember---she spit on her vows over 10 long years ago, with a ONS---so this is not something new to her------how many other men, have there been that none of us knows about---and HOW CAN ANYONE BELIEVE WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY

So again, JCD,---I ask you, how could you stand to spend the rest of your life with a person like Lost at Sea


----------



## dogman

Lost at sea said:


> Kind of scared but wanted to just let everyone know where we are at right now,,,,,"Malcolm" is my husband and we have been having trouble the past couple of months due to my cheating. He told me about this form yesterday and that it's been of help to him. I just asked him if he was seeing some therapy since he is so angry and he isn't, but it posting on this site. I read it and found his story. I've asked him if I could post on this site and he said "do what you want. So I hope this will be okay.
> 
> My husband has always been a good man and provider. I think someone along the line we both sort of got too comfortable. Where he would join clubs and activities I ended up wanting more attention. Eventualy I found it elsewhere, which is totally my fault. The truth hurts, but it needs to be stated. In our 18 years together and 17 married I've had 2 affairs. He knows about this after we talked yetersday. One was a one night deal 10 years ago when I was at a seminar. The other was with the guy who I was seeing when my husband broke up with me for my adultery.
> 
> Why did it happen? I'm selfish. I liked having two men in my life. I enjoyed the attention. The guy was reallyl happy to see me when we met at different places. I thought it was "real" and felt torn
> 
> Long story short my husband notified our employer and we were both suspended for immoral conduct. I was so hurt when it was first done, then I relazied that I brought it on myself. I was ashamed and found that I couldn't do what I was doing anymore with this other guy. I told him I was leaving and wanted my hubby back. He actually didn't seem to care that much and once the job thing broke down he became really a different person. I knew it wasn't a real love on both of our ends at that point.I've been home a few weeks now, and I am finding a place nearby to be with my family as much as possible. My husband won't let me stay past this month, and I understand that. I dont deserve to be treated with warmth by him right now. I just hope he knows one day how much I'm sorry.I dont deseve anything from my hubby, but it really hurts to see that he seems to hate me right now.



You have soooo far to go. Admitting that you are to blame 100% for cheating is the first baby step to fixing yourself. You have not done that yet. 


Contrary to popular thought, a broken marriage DOES NOT TAKE TWO, it takes one, one who decides to break the vow. (In case you needed it pointed out, breaking the vow is having sex with someone other than your spouse...you know "forsaking all others...")


----------



## MattMatt

Lost at Sea... you speak well of your husband and children... So, a question...

*What did they ever do to you that made you so indifferent and hostile to them and to their needs?*

And why change now? Is this a genuine change or, as is suspected, are your husband and children just a plan b, or even a plan f?

You remind me of a child of friends. Apparently she thought that teachers never left the school they taught at and remained in a cupboard at the school.

I am afraid that this is your attitude to your husband and your children. Whilst you are having your affair your husband and children are back in the marriage, waiting in a cupboard until you next have a need for them.

In your mind you have dehumanised your husband and children. They are no longer human beings, they are automata like those working models of a happy family of times gone by in a lifestyle museum.


----------



## Laba

Lost at sea, 
In your case I wouldn't worry why your stbxh hates you so much, since he is about to graduate from all the pain you caused him and be completely neutral towards you for the rest of his life.

What you SHOULD WORRY about is your relationship with your children. I am a child of identical divorce and my mother is still a stranger to me - I figured if she could hurt my dad so much she certainly is a B****. AS years went by this feeling only escalated so do what you can to not let this happen.


----------



## gbonham77

Numbersixxx said:


> I think Malcolm is dealing with a serial cheater. There are probably more than two affairs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is very true ... she is a sleeper. SHAME


----------



## MattMatt

gbonham77 said:


> This is very true ... she is a sleeper. SHAME


Even if it isn't true, the end result is the same.

Under the right/wrong circumstances Lost at Sea could have had a LTA with the man she had the OTS with.


----------



## Jasel

Really think Malcolm needs to kick her to the curb for good. Which fortunately it sounds like he's going to do. He deserves someone better and she deserves whatever she gets. I hope HE comes back and doesn't bail on the forum just because she showed up with her pity party in tow. This should be a safe place for BS, not a pit stop for WS (although we do have some regulars here who are cool of course. U know who u are boys and girls)


----------



## F-102

You admit to cheating TWICE?

Once is a mistake, twice is a LIFESTYLE.


----------



## JCD

jnj express said:


> So again, JCD,---I ask you, how could you stand to spend the rest of your life with a person like Lost at Sea


I'm pretty judgmental. That is not always a postive trait.

But I probably couldn't and I doubt that LaS has it in her to do the necessary work.

But that doesn't mean we don't provide a road map on how to change herself, if not for Malcom for the next guy.

Pain is instructive. Hopefully she doesn't waste this pain.


----------



## MattMatt

F-102 said:


> You admit to cheating TWICE?
> 
> Once is a mistake, twice is a LIFESTYLE.


Well, not always. However, in the case of Lost at Sea, the entitlement attitude and the willingness to abandon husband and children? That's not easily fixable, if at all, IMO.


----------



## bfree

Will_Kane said:


> You left your husband of 17 years for some guy you were screwing at work who showed you attention by texting you each morning to ask what color underwear you were wearing.


Will, I'm sorry for pulling this one statement out of your very good and thoughtful post but are you saying he played the panty game on her and she fell for it? I haven't followed Malcolm's entire story but the panty game is the weakest and oldest game in the PUA tool chest. In fact, I read someone commented in a blog recently about how if you get a woman to play the panty game that she is not only down for action but the color of her panties will tell you how freaky she'll get. This is pathetic. The guy Malcolm's wife was cheating with has got to be someone who recently read up on PUA tactics and tried them out on her. He's probably commenting on PUA blogs saying "Dude this really works! I can't believe she gave it up and I didn't even have to try that hard!" Oh this is sad. To lose an entire family to a newbie PUA with boxed, canned moves. Lost at Sea really needs to go to counseling to figure out why she was so "easy." Wow.


----------



## theroad

Lost at sea said:


> Kind of scared but wanted to just let everyone know where we are at right now,,,,,"Malcolm" is my husband and we have been having trouble the past couple of months due to my cheating. He told me about this form yesterday and that it's been of help to him. I just asked him if he was seeing some therapy since he is so angry and he isn't, but it posting on this site. I read it and found his story. I've asked him if I could post on this site and he said "do what you want. So I hope this will be okay.
> 
> My husband has always been a good man and provider. I think someone along the line we both sort of got too comfortable. Where he would join clubs and activities I ended up wanting more attention. Eventualy I found it elsewhere, which is totally my fault. The truth hurts, but it needs to be stated. In our 18 years together and 17 married I've had 2 affairs. He knows about this after we talked yetersday. One was a one night deal 10 years ago when I was at a seminar. The other was with the guy who I was seeing when my husband broke up with me for my adultery.
> 
> Why did it happen? I'm selfish. I liked having two men in my life. I enjoyed the attention. The guy was reallyl happy to see me when we met at different places. I thought it was "real" and felt torn
> 
> Long story short my husband notified our employer and we were both suspended for immoral conduct. I was so hurt when it was first done, then I relazied that I brought it on myself. I was ashamed and found that I couldn't do what I was doing anymore with this other guy. I told him I was leaving and wanted my hubby back. He actually didn't seem to care that much and once the job thing broke down he became really a different person. I knew it wasn't a real love on both of our ends at that point.I've been home a few weeks now, and I am finding a place nearby to be with my family as much as possible. My husband won't let me stay past this month, and I understand that. I dont deserve to be treated with warmth by him right now. I just hope he knows one day how much I'm sorry.I dont deseve anything from my hubby, but it really hurts to see that he seems to hate me right now.


Lost, get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.


----------



## BjornFree

Seems to me like the WW just pulled a b!tch move. A ploy to gain sympathy from Malcolm and become the next darling wayward of TAM.


----------



## Numbersixxx

bfree said:


> Will, I'm sorry for pulling this one statement out of your very good and thoughtful post but are you saying he played the panty game on her and she fell for it? I haven't followed Malcolm's entire story but the panty game is the weakest and oldest game in the PUA tool chest. In fact, I read someone commented in a blog recently about how if you get a woman to play the panty game that she is not only down for action but the color of her panties will tell you how freaky she'll get. This is pathetic. The guy Malcolm's wife was cheating with has got to be someone who recently read up on PUA tactics and tried them out on her. He's probably commenting on PUA blogs saying "Dude this really works! I can't believe she gave it up and I didn't even have to try that hard!" Oh this is sad. To lose an entire family to a newbie PUA with boxed, canned moves. Lost at Sea really needs to go to counseling to figure out why she was so "easy." Wow.


One thing more pathetic than PUAs are women that fall for them. Especially those that throw their husbands and children under the bus because of it. Just below them are women that sacrifice their families to persue romance with convicted serial killers, preferably awaiting execution.

Also, notice how in this case she refers to Malcolm as a "good man and provider". This is of course just euphemism for reliable beta male unto whom she can dump the financial responsibilities and seek emotional comfort, while simultaneously fulfilling her hedonistic impulses with some badboy scumbag. 

Malcolm, consider doing a paternity test.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Numbersixxx

Lost at sea said:


> Why did it happen? I'm selfish. I liked having two men in my life. I enjoyed the attention. The guy was reallyl happy to see me when we met at different places. I thought it was "real" and felt torn.


Nah, it's your husband that is selfish. 

You see, you should be able to have this fling done and come back into his life. He, on the other hand, should be overwhelmed with joy and thankful for the sloppy seconds you are giving him. He should always be there for you, no matter what you have done. But he is just too selfish to really show you that he cares, and he'll always be selfish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

I notice *Lost at Sea* still has made only one post on TAM, so she obviously has not taken the advice offered here to start her own thread that could possibly help address her issues. 

Considering the lack of contrition and remorse displayed in her post (so clearly pointed out by *alte Dame* and others), I doubt she has the intestinal fortitude required to endure the barrage of hostile comments she will receive (and rightly so, imo).

As a cheater myself, and having been on the receiving end of such comments (which were deserved, btw), it is some very bitter medicine to swallow. I just hope to God that my posts never came across as being so shallow and void of human understanding as her's did. Shaking my damn head.

I wonder how she found her way here. Did she get on his computer and find it by chance? (while he is likely doing something interesting with his kids this weekend). Or did *malcolm* (being the bright, perceptive guy he appears to be) steer her this way and he is now watching from the sideline as the predictable onslaught ensues. My gut tells me the latter is the case.

IMO, *malcolm* seems to be above engaging in any online fray with this person. I think (and definitely hope) he will chime back in to give us some perspective.

In any event - this person has a very long way to go to be someone who is deserving of the opportunity to still be a part of the children's lives - much less any consideration for R from her husband.

.


----------



## Decorum

Malcolm,
Since she is being allowed to stay in the home, can you tell her you expect her to read and reply?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

I think it might be better if she has time to not post but maybe spend a few days reading stories in this section to maybe get an idea of what her husband went through and how serious what she did was. She comes off as selfish and self-centered. Maybe reading the accounts of others might help her think about something other than herself. For example her husband, children, and the family she threw away.


----------



## Malcolm38

When I was communicating with my future ex-wife during the week, she was mentioning being in counseling. Then she had asked me what kind of things I was doing to help with the depression and I've been feeling since everything broke apart last winter. 

Indeed, I did inform her that I was posting on this website and that I found it useful for me to be able to talk about things and get feedback. 

She asked if she could read my "version" of the story and I told her that she could, and that she could post on here if she wanted to. BRIEFLY. I do prefer that she has her own thread if she wants to go in that direction. 

I did think it was fair to her to be able to present things as they appear to her. I really don't think it's all that different than I have said they are. She agrees. I DID NOT ask her to post here so that people can beat her up while I sit in the corner and giggle. I do think that in all honesty that would be a rather sick thing to do.

If I was going to seriously contemplate a form of "revenge" I would just get the hottest girl I could talk into dating me and romance her in front of my ex. 

In all probability I will ask her to post a few more times on this thread to answer some of the questions she has been asked. Since I did say yes to allowing her to post on my thread, it's probably the right thing to do to not let her take criticism without a chance to respond directly. 

I really do think though that I will ask her to not be on this thread after this weekend though. I don't want to engage directly. I know she is looking for a chance to talk to me in any method available, but I don't feel like having her invade "my space" if that makes sense.


----------



## MattMatt

Malcolm38 said:


> When I was communicating with my future ex-wife during the week, she was mentioning being in counseling. Then she had asked me what kind of things I was doing to help with the depression and I've been feeling since everything broke apart last winter.
> 
> Indeed, I did inform her that I was posting on this website and that I found it useful for me to be able to talk about things and get feedback.
> 
> She asked if she could read my "version" of the story and I told her that she could, and that she could post on here if she wanted to. BRIEFLY. I do prefer that she has her own thread if she wants to go in that direction.
> 
> I did think it was fair to her to be able to present things as they appear to her. I really don't think it's all that different than I have said they are. She agrees. I DID NOT ask her to post here so that people can beat her up while I sit in the corner and giggle. I do think that in all honesty that would be a rather sick thing to do.
> 
> If I was going to seriously contemplate a form of "revenge" I would just get the hottest girl I could talk into dating me and romance her in front of my ex.
> 
> In all probability I will ask her to post a few more times on this thread to answer some of the questions she has been asked. Since I did say yes to allowing her to post on my thread, it's probably the right thing to do to not let her take criticism without a chance to respond directly.
> 
> I really do think though that I will ask her to not be on this thread after this weekend though. I don't want to engage directly. I know she is looking for a chance to talk to me in any method available, but I don't feel like having her invade "my space" if that makes sense.


It makes a lot of sense.

Who knows? Eventually you and Lost at Sea might get your own recovering together thread like EI and B1, Calvin and CSS, etc...


----------



## Numbersixxx

Malcolm,
just tell her that the percentage of white knights is very low here and she shouldn't expect any sympathy.


----------



## Shaggy

So Malcolm good job deciding to purge her from your life. You now know she's a remorseless serial cheater, for years now.

I can't believe the company didn't fire the posOM for having sex with him employee. He's scum of the earth and what he deserves is to be unemployed and living on the street. He helped end your children's family.

There won't be any mom and dad and kids at Disney because of him.

As for you being angry at home around your unfaithful remorseless wife, that seems entirely like a sane and rational reaction to her multiple and continuing choice to betray you. 

Dont let the very sane anger that she deserves bleed over into your kids lives. It's bad enough that your wife chose to break up the marriage and end your kids having a solid home. Get her out on Apr 1 and don't look back. Then focus on making them and you happy.

You and the kids can have a very happy good family once she is out of the house. Stay strong.


----------



## Shaggy

To lost at sea, 

Are you still planning on working for the OM? Or are you going to go to HR and have him fired for sexual harassment

Edited to use correct term!


----------



## Numbersixxx

Shaggy said:


> To lost at sea,
> 
> Are you still planning on working for the OM? Or are you going to go to HR and have him fired for sexual abuse?


Sexual abuse?


----------



## verpin zal

Numbersixxx said:


> Malcolm,
> just tell her that the percentage of white knights is very low here and she shouldn't expect any sympathy.


Well I was about to say this.

She must have read the responses to her post and sensed a glimpse of more harsh responses in the way if she continues to seek for sympathy. Then did a runner. It is very unlikely she's coming back here, she'll look for other methods of communicating with Malcolm, without as interfering and warning Malcolm with our responses.

Malcolm, you had not promised R with your WW. How's that about now? Changed your mind?


----------



## The Middleman

Malcolm38 said:


> If I was going to seriously contemplate a form of "revenge" I would just get the hottest girl I could talk into dating me and romance her in front of my ex.


Yes .... this and more!


----------



## Malcolm38

verpin zal said:


> Well I was about to say this.
> 
> She must have read the responses to her post and sensed a glimpse of more harsh responses in the way if she continues to seek for sympathy. Then did a runner. It is very unlikely she's coming back here, she'll look for other methods of communicating with Malcolm, without as interfering and warning Malcolm with our responses.
> 
> *Malcolm, you had not promised R with your WW. How's that about now? Changed your mind*?


No. No reconciliation. The divorce continues.


----------



## verpin zal

Malcolm38 said:


> No. No reconciliation. The divorce continues.


Goooood. Gooooooood.

[Insert Darth Sidious guttural intonation above]


----------



## bfree

verpin zal said:


> Goooood. Gooooooood.
> 
> [Insert Darth Sidious guttural intonation above]


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Lost's fallout from this will follow her for years to come. Imagine, years from now, she get's into a serious relationship, they fall in love, THEN he finds out why she's divorced... If she reads this thread again and sees this post, I can't help but wonder how she thinks she's going to handle this when it happens. AND it WILL happen. She obviously had no regard for her Husband and children, especially during the false R. I have to wonder if she ever gave any real thought as to how this was going to effect here in the long run...

I guess she'll probably end up with another divorced cheater. There's certainly enough of them out there.

Sorry Malcolm, I really wasn't planning on taking a jab at your STBXW, but there's no nice way to ask this.


----------



## Will_Kane

bfree said:


> Will, I'm sorry for pulling this one statement out of your very good and thoughtful post but *are you saying he played the panty game on her and she fell for it? I haven't followed Malcolm's entire story but the panty game is the weakest and oldest game in the PUA tool chest. In fact, I read someone commented in a blog recently about how if you get a woman to play the panty game that she is not only down for action but the color of her panties will tell you how freaky she'll get. This is pathetic. *The guy Malcolm's wife was cheating with has got to be someone who recently read up on PUA tactics and tried them out on her. He's probably commenting on PUA blogs saying "Dude this really works! I can't believe she gave it up and I didn't even have to try that hard!" Oh this is sad. To lose an entire family to a newbie PUA with boxed, canned moves. Lost at Sea really needs to go to counseling to figure out why she was so "easy." Wow.





Malcolm38 said:


> Greetings and a Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all,
> 
> My older brother spoke of this website and how it has been helpful to him so I will be giving this a whirl, since I don't tend to "talk" about my problems very much.
> 
> I have been married for 17 years, since I was 21 years old. We have 2 children together. A 10 year old daughter and a 5 year old daughter.
> 
> It had been a good relationship on the whole, as we have had some of the problems that many married couples have. But nothing dramatic, such as addictions, violence or adultery, etc.
> 
> Ah, but there is the catch. In the spring of 2012 my wife was on a work trip to another part of the country for a week for a conference. Standard stuff as this has happened many times before. When she returned she seemed rather unlike herself, but I didn't put much thought into it at the time as we are both busy .
> 
> The BOMB was dropped on July 4th. *Her phone went off when she was in the shower,It was a text message that said "What color underwear are you wearing today?". *When she got out I asked her what the hell that was all about. Initially she told me it was a joke a friend was playing on her.
> 
> Since I'm not 3 years old I asked her to try again. That is when she told me that she had slept with a co-worker on the trip, and that they had had sex one other time the week after she returned. Happy 4th everyone!
> 
> She told me that she was sorry and that she wanted to keep it a secret forever, but that the guilt was too much for her to take. Especially after seeing me take the girls out for a day on the town the day before. What does that even mean exactly, who knows? Rather odd considering I actually had to confront her to get the information.
> 
> So in hindsight I think this is where I really kind of messed up, as I pretty much forgave her and didn't do very much other than try to move on. She has been more affectionate, and I have kept track of her communications and travels and don't have a reason to think things have continued. Boy toy is located in another office some 250 miles away, so the day to day thing would have been difficult to continue.
> 
> Anyway, for some reason around the Holidays beginning I just started to find myself actually getting just angry about everything. I probably haven't been the perfect Husband or anything, but I didn't deserve to have any of this happen. I've never even looked at another girl since I met my wife. Don't I feel like an idiot now?
> 
> Every year we have tended to visit her parents about 5 hours away for Christmas. About a week ago I just honestly felt dead inside to going and told her I wasn't coming along this year. The girls wanted to see their Grandparents so I was okay with that, as I trust my wife as a mother. Not that much as a woman anymore.
> 
> She was all upset and telling me that I hadn't forgiven her after all. Well, no **** Sherlock. I honestly don't like her parents that much, and the thought of having to fake it just isn't something I can do at this point.
> 
> I made a mistake not kicking her out of the house this summer. I think I was just numb and couldn't understand what had happened before. But now that I do understand, I think I'd actually like to file for divorce now.
> 
> Am I nuts? How all over the board is this? Thing is, I REALLY dread having her come back tomorrow. I can't wait to see my girls again, but....ugh.


----------



## bfree

Like I said....pathetic. That tactic only works on women who are intentionally available. His wife wasn't just weak, she was willing.


----------



## keko

Malcolm, you may want to DNA test both of your kids. I'm not suggesting you to drop them out of your life if they're not yours, but to confirm not everything about your marriage has been a lie.


----------



## verpin zal

bfree said:


> Like I said....pathetic. That tactic only works on women who are intentionally available. His wife wasn't just weak, she was willing.


Agreed. At this point I'd like to know how the wife in question would reply to the panties text, had she not been caught, what with her initially calling the exchange a mere "joke".

And the word. "caught". I just fervently wish that every wayward thought about the word and its aftermath before plunging into an endless pit. I guess it's just not possible.


----------



## F-102

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Lost's fallout from this will follow her for years to come. Imagine, years from now, she get's into a serious relationship, they fall in love, THEN he finds out why she's divorced... If she reads this thread again and sees this post, I can't help but wonder how she thinks she's going to handle this when it happens. AND it WILL happen. She obviously had no regard for her Husband and children, especially during the false R. I have to wonder if she ever gave any real thought as to how this was going to effect here in the long run...
> 
> I guess she'll probably end up with another divorced cheater. There's certainly enough of them out there.
> 
> Sorry Malcolm, I really wasn't planning on taking a jab at your STBXW, but there's no nice way to ask this.


Yes, one day, some years from now, after she has had a revolving-door parade of scumbags and losers in and out of her life, she will overhear a coworker talking about her family and husband in glowing terms.

She will go home, close the door behind her and wistfully remember that she had a wonderful husband and happy family once.

And only the walls and her 50 smelly cats will hear her.


----------



## JCD

Hmm...considering how gleeful some of these BS's are at the prospect, why don't we all get together and try to pass a law getting an 'A' branded on every cheater's forhead. Unless they are hot. Then they get it on their cheek.

Or maybe a prison for cheaters...

Public floggings?

Because merciful, mature people would rather be happy that the Wayward's lives suck for the rest of their lives, alone, destroyed, friendless, joyless and hopeless. 

That is certainly commenserate with the damage she causes the BS...you know...the guy who divorces her and moves on to Life 2.0 with his new younger girlfriend.

Actually CHANGING her into a decent person...well...why bother? Once a cheater, always a cheater.

Luckily WE, (excuse me, YOU [generic]) are perfect people who NEVER hurt anyone badly in their lives.

Certainly the term: once a smug, self righteous, unforgiving @sshole, always a...

Oops...there I go, getting off the TAM script again...

Their relationship is done. She might learn from this. But piling on and driving away everyone whose moral compass goes blooey does nothing but give the BS posters the vicarious thrill of hurting waywards.

That is not particularly high minded.


----------



## Shaggy

Numbersixxx said:


> Sexual abuse?


Sorry, wrong term. I meant sexual harassment.


----------



## Shaggy

@JCD, so we should vilify people that abuse animals and children, but we should say, oops, to people who take a vow of fidelity and then willingly choose to just blow right through it?

I've always found it odd that we forever brand as a vile traitor without question a soldier who breaks view to their country, but we are supposed to forgive and get over a person who does that to their spouse. Btw, I'm not suggesting going soft on the traitor.


----------



## JCD

Shaggy said:


> @JCD, so we should vilify people that abuse animals and children, but we should say, oops, to people who take a vow of fidelity and then willingly choose to just blow right through it?
> 
> I've always found it odd that we forever brand as a vile traitor without question a soldier who breaks view to their country, but we are supposed to forgive and get over a person who does that to their spouse. Btw, I'm not suggesting going soft on the traitor.


That is a good question, and I would happily debate it, but that would threadjack things. So I'll keep this to a single post.

Benedict Arnold should correctly have been shot by the Americans. The damage would have done by turning over Ft. West Point would endanger thousands of his fellow soldiers.

A single soldier, faced with an onslaught who suddenly breaks ranks and runs can infect all his fellow soldiers with the same panic and lose an entire battle. That was what Sergeants were for: to cut down that craven C0ck in the Mouth so the men DIDN'T run.

So while the principle of betrayal is the same, the CONSEQUENCES of a soldier's actions versus a wayward's wife's actions are far different.

In one, she hurts her husbands and children's feelings. Now, this might be enough damage to cause depression, screw up their future interactions with people, etc. But it's still FEELINGS.

She isn't maiming them. Many people have cheated. Not every person CONTINUES to cheat. That is in opposition to someone who is a pedophile or or a sadist. Their recidivism rate is much higher...and is a much greater risk to society in general.

Because a cheater is a louse, not a predator.

Threadjack over.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> Hmm...considering how gleeful some of these BS's are at the prospect, why don't we all get together and try to pass a law getting an 'A' branded on every cheater's forhead. Unless they are hot. Then they get it on their cheek.
> 
> Or maybe a prison for cheaters...
> 
> Public floggings?
> 
> Because merciful, mature people would rather be happy that the Wayward's lives suck for the rest of their lives, alone, destroyed, friendless, joyless and hopeless.
> 
> That is certainly commenserate with the damage she causes the BS...you know...the guy who divorces her and moves on to Life 2.0 with his new younger girlfriend.
> 
> Actually CHANGING her into a decent person...well...why bother? Once a cheater, always a cheater.
> 
> Luckily WE, (excuse me, YOU [generic]) are perfect people who NEVER hurt anyone badly in their lives.
> 
> Certainly the term: once a smug, self righteous, unforgiving @sshole, always a...
> 
> Oops...there I go, getting off the TAM script again...
> 
> Their relationship is done. She might learn from this. But piling on and driving away everyone whose moral compass goes blooey does nothing but give the BS posters the vicarious thrill of hurting waywards.
> 
> That is not particularly high minded.


I agree with you that some WS deserve a second chance. I agree with you that some WS should receive help and not scorn. However, some WS do not warrant support or sympathy do you agree? And where does one draw the line between rugsweeping and consequences/accountability?

You know that I was probably as hard on Mrs M as anybody. I felt she was not being genuine and was still thinking more of her needs than her betrayed husband's. But to her credit she stuck around even PMing people individually to ask for help and to search for advice. I don't know if she and Matt are going to be able to reconcile their marriage but as far as I'm concerned she has weathered the TAM "trial by fire" and has come out the other side a stronger more empathetic person. I believe she deserves to be seen as a *former* WS even if she and Matt do not stay married.

Just because a WS comes to TAM and claims to be remorseful should they be believed or be given the benefit of any doubt. If they can receive even the harsh posts with an open mind and an open heart and process this information then maybe they can find their way back from the abyss. But they have to turn away from that dark pit because nobody will approach that cliff edge to help them until they walk back toward the light.


----------



## jim123

Sea of Love,

There are a lot of WS's who post. One common element is that when DD happened, they chose thier spouse and family. You did not. You are back because things did not work out with OM. 

Your final line in your post is how it hurts that he hate YOU. That is your problem it is all about you. 

Malcolm is plan B for you. Plan B is never Plan A. 

You walked away from your husband and family for OM.


----------



## JCD

bfree,

I agree with everthing you say. She doesn't strike me as a good candidate for R, but she might learn better boundaries. She needs to know WHY what she did is so egregious and why it's hard to forgive her actions. It should be apparent. Sometimes it's not.

My posts are more about a warning over too overt malice. F102 went pretty hardcore. I don't get the grudge hate for the Waywards.

Yes, they hurt you. They ruined your planned future. So will a car accident. So will your boss suddenly laying you off. It happens. Suck it up and go onto Life 2.0 Divorce her. That is her penance. She lost her family.

But wishing her to be a lonesome cat lady forever? Once she's gone, she's history. Who cares? Personally, I would prefer she learn her lesson, find her moral core and make someone else deliriously happy. And if she is happy at the same time, well, that's fine.

And yes, I wish Malcom MORE happiness.

I am personally biased by this. My mom cheated. Dad went on to a reasonably good Life 2.0. He found another wife, had more kids, died with his family caring for him.

My mother is still a broken creature and alone. She's done exactly what F 102 wishes on every wayward.

Personally, I wish she could have fixed her demons and gone on to a better life. She didn't.

Is that what you would wish on your mother if she was the cheater?


----------



## Shaggy

Malcolm now knows she has cheated before. He would be naive and foolish to think that even now he has the truth. Cheaters lie, it's what they choose to be best at.

He should be DNA testing his kids.

He should be seeing if he can sue the most recent OM or the company the OM works for.


----------



## Wazza

If LostAtSea wants help to be the best person he can, I would rather try and help her than keep beating her up.

I hope she starts a thread and posts the link here. I would do what I could to help.


----------



## JCD

Lost at Sea

You behaved very poorly and made some very bad choices. I don't think this can be disputed.

If you care for your children at all, clean yourself up. Don't let this define you for the rest of your life. Make better choices, find a flawed but good man. Make both of you happy.

Be honest (not on the first date), and transparent. If you are single, put yourself out there. If you are even dating, don't TALK to another man. You have poor boundaries. So do I. I'm trying to fix that too.

Right now you are starting to see what is wrong with you. Keep looking and dig deep. I get that Malcom might not have been perfect. He'd have to be pretty frigging awful to deserve this.

So...good luck on your journey.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> bfree,
> 
> I agree with everthing you say. She doesn't strike me as a good candidate for R, but she might learn better boundaries. She needs to know WHY what she did is so egregious and why it's hard to forgive her actions. It should be apparent. Sometimes it's not.
> 
> My posts are more about a warning over too overt malice. F102 went pretty hardcore. I don't get the grudge hate for the Waywards.
> 
> Yes, they hurt you. They ruined your planned future. So will a car accident. So will your boss suddenly laying you off. It happens. Suck it up and go onto Life 2.0 Divorce her. That is her penance. She lost her family.
> 
> But wishing her to be a lonesome cat lady forever? Once she's gone, she's history. Who cares? Personally, I would prefer she learn her lesson, find her moral core and make someone else deliriously happy. And if she is happy at the same time, well, that's fine.
> 
> And yes, I wish Malcom MORE happiness.
> 
> I am personally biased by this. My mom cheated. Dad went on to a reasonably good Life 2.0. He found another wife, had more kids, died with his family caring for him.
> 
> My mother is still a broken creature and alone. She's done exactly what F 102 wishes on every wayward.
> 
> Personally, I wish she could have fixed her demons and gone on to a better life. She didn't.
> 
> *Is that what you would wish on your mother if she was the cheater*?


No, I would hope my mother would have enough strength and love for me to endure the difficult self examination that must come before any painful lesson is processed and assimilated.

BTW, I'm sorry for what you and your family experienced.


----------



## F-102

But JCD(and by responding I'm just enabling you to hijack this thread even further), whose CHOICE was it to cheat? Whose CHOICE was it to live a life with 50 smelly cats? Whose CHOICE could it have been to prevent the whole sorry mess in the 1st place?

And then you say it's only FEELINGS? I'm sure that Malcolm will be mature and strong enough to get through this, but what about the daughters? Kids tend to think that a broken marriage was somehow THEIR fault, then they either withdraw to years of feeling sorry for themselves, or they act out. And later on, when they're married with kids, they may very well find themselves in the same situation, confronted with the same CHOICE. And if they think that :"Oh well, mom got away with it, so why not me? And I'm only hurting my husband and children's FEELINGS-they'll get over it."


----------



## Chaparral

This is why realitivisim is so destructive. You can rationalize everything.

Its not about just feelings at all. Its about the total destruction of peoples lives.

I am certain that some of the posters that have abruptly stopped posting, for example, have commited suicide. We know for a fact several waywards have attempted suicide.

Feelings does not even come close to describing the destruction you are glossing over.


----------



## JCD

F-102 said:


> And then you say it's only FEELINGS? I'm sure that Malcolm will be mature and strong enough to get through this, but what about the daughters? Kids tend to think that a broken marriage was somehow THEIR fault, then they either withdraw to years of feeling sorry for themselves, or they act out. And later on, when they're married with kids, they may very well find themselves in the same situation, confronted with the same CHOICE. And if they think that :"Oh well, mom got away with it, so why not me? And I'm only hurting my husband and children's FEELINGS-they'll get over it."


Oh...I was talking about Lost at Sea. The woman who has lost her reputation, lost her husband, lost her kids, lost her job and seemingly lost a happy family future. Who were you talking about?

Because in my book, that is NOT 'getting away with it'. Getting away with it is me screwing multiple co-eds rotten and my wife and family NEVER hearing about it.

I come from a home broken by infidelity. I haven't had a PA. As far as I know, my sister hasn't had a PA. And we both sometimes (frequently) despise my mother. So no, not agreeing with your analysis.



chapparal said:


> This is why realitivisim is so destructive. You can rationalize everything.
> 
> Its not about just feelings at all. * Its about the total destruction of peoples lives.*


Really? TOTAL destruction. Like...never seeing a movie again? Never enjoying a nice meal again? Never seeing the kids or patting a sex partner on the rear end again? Or even the joy of living with 50 cats which she is so sure loves her.

See...for me total destruction means dead. And FOR THE MOST PART, people who are cheated on seem to mostly go on and forge new relationships. (not all) Yes, they seem to be extremely BITTER but that doesn't describe 'total destruction'. 

If a soldier next to me causes a panic and I die, that is total destruction. If I am stuck in a rubber room, THAT is total destruction. Even losing a limb...still got a lot of life in me. If some guy who got both his legs blown off by an IED can find joy in life and even get into serious competetive sports, certainly someone whose low rent wife wanders off can find SOME recovery for themselves.



> I am certain that some of the posters that have abruptly stopped posting, for example, have commited suicide. * We know for a fact several waywards have attempted suicide.*
> 
> Feelings does not even come close to describing the destruction you are glossing over.


Did they try the suicide before or after you guys shared your 'benevolent, warm and forgiveing' opinion of their actions?

You take all hope away from someone, that's what happens. Even waywards.

So...chapparal...you were cheated on, yes? Are you totally destroyed? Are you in a relationship? Have you had any joy or fulfillment in life since the divorce?

Less trusting and more cynical is not 'totally destroyed'.


----------



## Wazza

JCD said:


> Did they try the suicide before or after you guys shared your 'benevolent, warm and forgiveing' opinion of their actions?
> 
> You take all hope away from someone, that's what happens. Even waywards.


QFT.

And linking with your post on another thread. To paraphrase you "sometimes on TAM you see a lot more tough than love".


----------



## JCD

Just for clarity. I get that 'hurt feelings' are nothing to sneeze at. As you note, people DIE and WARS are started over 'hurt feelings'. (which also supports the idea of overreaction to having the ego taking a drubbing).

Considering the amount of infidelity in our nation, you'd think the undertakers and grave diggers wouldn't have a moment to take a breath. This is not the case.

I am sympathetic to the emotional damage infidelity can do. But let's not stray into hyperbole. For every guy I read wallowing in his pain, I read at least two posts from some guy who says his life is great, he has a new girl, he's dating, what have you. Or I read about Rookie04 or Fishfry (?) who tossed his wife out toot suite and moved on. Hurt...but MOVED ON.

So wallowing in the pain is ALSO a choice...


----------



## Acabado

JCD, the issue is not "once a cheater..." she's up to define herself with her future actions. The issue is she came here totaly unrepetant, with no clue of the severity of her actions, with the same entitled, "happyness at any price forever'' attitude she displayed since at least one year already.
As she's stuck in this mindset so she IS a cheater, even she's not actively cheating now (BTW it's only because she was fired and dumped).
I hope for her own sake, for their children she gets her head straight ASAP, start some soul searching, some self examination and become a better person. I wish her well, no ill at all. I hope she redeem herself.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> Really? TOTAL destruction. Like...never seeing a movie again? Never enjoying a nice meal again? Never seeing the kids or patting a sex partner on the rear end again? Or even the joy of living with 50 cats which she is so sure loves her.
> 
> See...for me total destruction means dead. And FOR THE MOST PART, people who are cheated on seem to mostly go on and forge new relationships. (not all) Yes, they seem to be extremely BITTER but that doesn't describe 'total destruction'.
> 
> If a soldier next to me causes a panic and I die, that is total destruction. If I am stuck in a rubber room, THAT is total destruction. Even losing a limb...still got a lot of life in me. If some guy who got both his legs blown off by an IED can find joy in life and even get into serious competetive sports, certainly someone whose low rent wife wanders off can find SOME recovery for themselves.


After my first wife cheated on me and after the harsh words and treatment I subsequently received I sunk into a deep depression. I didn't leave my house for several weeks and after that only to go to work and come home. I started drinking heavily and got into drugs. When some friends finally talked me into coming out I began to pick up women and got into the ONS and pump and dump culture. I continued to drink and do drugs and purposefully got into fights in bars and other places. My self destructive behavior escalated until I realized that I was in fact trying to die.

Is that total destruction enough for you?

The only thing that saved me was a friend and a mentor who counseled me and helped turn my life around. I think you completely underestimate the pain and anguish that many BS experience after being betrayed. I hope you never have to go through what many others have already gone through because it can change you immensely. Sometimes those changes can be overcome and even molded to serve the person in a positive way. But sometimes the betrayed spouse is irrevocably damaged and their lives are forever cheapened as a result.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> After my first wife cheated on me and after the harsh words and treatment I subsequently received I sunk into a deep depression. I didn't leave my house for several weeks and after that only to go to work and come home. I started drinking heavily and got into drugs. When some friends finally talked me into coming out I began to pick up women and got into the ONS and pump and dump culture. I continued to drink and do drugs and purposefully got into fights in bars and other places. My self destructive behavior escalated until I realized that I was in fact trying to die.
> 
> Is that total destruction enough for you?
> 
> The only thing that saved me was a friend and a mentor who counseled me and helped turn my life around. I think you completely underestimate the pain and anguish that many BS experience after being betrayed. I hope you never have to go through what many others have already gone through because it can change you immensely. Sometimes those changes can be overcome and even molded to serve the person in a positive way. But sometimes the betrayed spouse is irrevocably damaged and their lives are forever cheapened as a result.


Bfree, will that be helped if someone else is driven to destructive behaviour?

From where I sit, I watched the tirade against Lost At Sea unfold, and wonderd if I could cope with receiving all that. If I distill the points that were made I agree with most of them, but the tone would have made it hard to hear the message.

Lost fell for another man, cheated on her husband, and was prepared to leave him and her kids. She has done a terrible wrong.

Ok. My wife fell for another man, cheated on her husband, and contemplated leaving me for him, and like Lost's OM, she did this for a man who was using her. Threw so much away for nothing. 

Now, I am not suggesting Malcolm reconcile here...I think he has done a great job handling this...but I reconciled, and my wife is a good wife. Part of the process is she hates what she became at that stage of life.

Lost, please start a thread as a means to work through what you have done. You marriage is probably over, but you have kids who need you to be the best you can be, and you have a future for yourself, even if you don't know it right now.


----------



## bfree

Again, I didn't read a lot of Malcolm's thread but I thought this was not her first affair and I also believe there was a very difficult false R involved as well. If I am mistaken I apologize. The point of my initial reply to Will's post was that this OM used a very low level PUA tactic that trends to only work when a woman is "up for action." If that is true then Lost at Sea needs a tremendous amount of therapy before she is a safe prospect for any man looking for a loyal partner.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> Again, I didn't read a lot of Malcolm's thread but I thought this was not her first affair and I also believe there was a very difficult false R involved as well. If I am mistaken I apologize. The point of my initial reply to Will's post was that this OM used a very low level PUA tactic that trends to only work when a woman is "up for action." If that is true then Lost at Sea needs a tremendous amount of therapy before she is a safe prospect for any man looking for a loyal partner.


We know panties colors were discussed. Don't know if that is how she was reeled in. Actually, don't even know whether she was reeled in or did the reeling.

But i think she admitted in her post that she was dissatisfied, and implied she was up for something.


----------



## Lost at sea

Wazza said:


> We know panties colors were discussed. Don't know if that is how she was reeled in. Actually, don't even know whether she was reeled in or did the reeling.
> 
> But i think she admitted in her post that she was dissatisfied, and implied she was up for something.


It is true that there is something in me that allowsthis kind of behavior. I think i need to be honest to malcolm in the hopes that i can not only salvage our marriage but myself in the process. I wonder if my compulsive behavior makes me a horrible wife. My husband has always been the one with common sense and the ability to get me to be realistic. I really need him right now, and he is the one person that gets me. I have a long history of being selfish and i have gone too far more than ever this time. 

I have quit my job and will be taking a part time job while i get my crap together. I will also sign divorce papers that are in his favor. I think the only way to get him back is to do this. I dont want himto see other women but if he did i would wait for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

Lost at sea said:


> It is true that there is something in me that allowsthis kind of behavior. I think i need to be honest to malcolm in the hopes that i can not only salvage our marriage but myself in the process. I wonder if my compulsive behavior makes me a horrible wife. My husband has always been the one with common sense and the ability to get me to be realistic. I really need him right now, and he is the one person that gets me. I have a long history of being selfish and i have gone too far more than ever this time.
> 
> I have quit my job and will be taking a part time job while i get my crap together. I will also sign divorce papers that are in his favor. I think the only way to get him back is to do this. I dont want himto see other women but if he did i would wait for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A very good start on a long tough road. Read other threads and learn. You will get beat up in posting but you will find yourself in the process.


----------



## Lost at sea

I amalso going to quit facebook and have given him mypasswords to mycell phone and email. I have to moveout but when i am gone i will call and check in if he will take my call....oh god i really screwed up this time. He is different this time. I dont know if he'll takeme back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jonesey

Lost at sea said:


> It is true that there is something in me that allowsthis kind of behavior. I think i need to be honest to malcolm in the hopes that i can not only salvage our marriage but myself in the process. I wonder if my compulsive behavior makes me a horrible wife. My husband has always been the one with common sense and the ability to get me to be realistic. I really need him right now, and he is the one person that gets me. I have a long history of being selfish and i have gone too far more than ever this time.
> 
> I have quit my job and will be taking a part time job while i get my crap together. I will also sign divorce papers that are in his favor. *I think the only way to get him back is to do this*. I dont want himto see other women but if he did i would wait for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Love and respect would not hurt either


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## Lost at sea

He checked out this time. I love him. What did i do? Why? Why do i do this? Why did iassume it would be okay? What a selfish bit## i am. I have been with malcolm since i was 22. He is the only man i have ever loved. Why didnt i treat him like that is the case?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Have you gone to hr and filed a sexual harassment claim? That would certainly show you choose Malcolm over the scumbag OM.

Is the OM married? Have you contacted and confesses the affair to her?


----------



## Jonesey

Lost at sea said:


> *He checked out this time.* And you are surprised?I love him. *What did i do?* You really need a´n answer on that?
> 
> 
> *Why?* Because you could,and liked it,and WANTED IT
> 
> *Why do i do this? *Sigh..Seriously??
> 
> *Why did iassume it would be okay? *You did not assume*.
> *You counted on it.*
> 
> What a selfish bit## i am.* Well acting like a drama queen
> won´t help you...
> 
> 
> 
> I have been with malcolm since i was 22. He is the only man i have ever loved. *Why didnt i treat him like that is the case?*Again seriously??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Look i´m one of them that does not think cheating wife/GF
are like Stalin.
The problem here is you do know..I see no remorse,sadness.

could go on, and on.See more lip service. If i was you i would sit down and write down everything,and i mean everything.As a start


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## bfree

Lost at sea said:


> He checked out this time. I love him. What did i do? Why? Why do i do this? Why did iassume it would be okay? What a selfish bit## i am. I have been with malcolm since i was 22. He is the only man i have ever loved. Why didnt i treat him like that is the case?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is why you need to go to counseling. And I feel like its going to take a long time to find your answers.


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## Jonesey

bfree said:


> That is why you need to go to counseling. *And I feel like its going to take a long time to find your answers.*


Seriously?? The first time yea´s i agree. But over 12 month´s


----------



## Wazza

LAS, start your own thread...there is a lot to gain. Glad you came back.

Work on you. When you start your thread I will post more. Please put a link to it here.

The pain you have seen in many responses to your first post is the pain of folks who have been through what you just did to your husband. It never totally heals. Never.


----------



## Jonesey

Wazza said:


> LAS, start your own thread...there is a lot to gain. Glad you came back.
> 
> Work on you. When you start your thread I will post more. Please put a link to it here.
> 
> The pain you have seen in many responses to your first post is the pain of folks who have been through what you just did to your husband. It never totally heals. Never.


:iagree:


----------



## jim123

Wazza said:


> LAS, start your own thread...there is a lot to gain. Glad you came back.
> 
> Work on you. When you start your thread I will post more. Please put a link to it here.
> 
> The pain you have seen in many responses to your first post is the pain of folks who have been through what you just did to your husband. It never totally heals. Never.


Agree.

This may be the only way to communicate with Malcolm for a while. It will be tough but will help you heal and find yourself.


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## JCD

Lost at Sea,

The others are commenting that you seem emotionally disconnected with real remorse. That the full impact of your betrayal isn't hitting you. This is probably true, but they don't realize that it is natural.

You didn't form your feelings with Malcom in a day and you didn't form feelings with this OM in a day either. Switching them off takes some time. MAKE THAT EFFORT. 

I was 4 months NC and working with the wife trying to fix things. I still didn't think I loved her, but it was because I was messed up in the head. It wasn't until 8 months that I started to really bond and love my wife the way I used to again.

Try to 'fake it till you make it'. Now, this is not standard TAM doctrine, but it's at least what I felt when we went through our reconcilliation. I was disconnected but I did what I had to do to make things stronger. God bless her but my wife did the same.

You are taking some of the first steps. I would suggest going through photo albums and trying to recall the happy memories those pictures document.

You need to have a little ritual with the hubby. Any gift the OM gave you, any clothing, note or little knick knack you have, you should burn with Malcom if he will join you. It took me a long time to excise her out of my head, and for me, it was certain songs she gave me which always brought up the memories.

Good luck, Malcom is a good guy (not perfect but good). Recall you can never divorce your kids.

I don't have a great deal of hope, but I do wish you luck IF you are the best thing for Malcom and the kids. So BE the best thing for Malcom and the kids...


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## jnj express

Hey Lost---I abhorr cheating, and as you could tell from my posts, I gave you some pretty nasty---2x4's---and I am sure you will agree you deserve every bit of hardcore comments that come at you--------BUT------that does not mean you are a bad person 

You need to go to IC, on your own---and start to function on your own

Your H., will eventually get over this, at least we hope---It is what you have done to your children, that needs to be looked at, and addressed---BY YOU-------your selfish greed---has changed their lives forever

IMHO------If you want to try to get your family back----your mge, is probably beyond retrieving---but that does not mean you can't try in the future, to put something new together

Once agin IMHO---let this go to D., and then in time, after you have fixed yourself, you may find your H., is still going to be available, and with time---he may see a NEW YOU----You could, in time---try to start over from the beginning----ask HIM out on a date--------you will be in contact, thruout the whole process, as you still have to parent the kids together---so you can slowly try to feel your H., out, as to a possible NEW FUTURE

You have to understand tho, what you did, was beyond the boundaries, of many levels of cheating, and your H---may never want you back---I am sure, you understand that

To start this whole process---you must become SELFLESS, work on fixing you, and do what is best for your H., and your children-------------I may not like you, but I do wish you well in the future


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## bfree

Jonesey said:


> Seriously?? The first time yea´s i agree. But over 12 month´s


Actually I was thinking in LAS's case it would be years.


----------



## warlock07

Shaggy said:


> Have you gone to hr and filed a sexual harassment claim? That would certainly show you choose Malcolm over the scumbag OM.
> 
> Is the OM married? Have you contacted and confesses the affair to her?


A sexual harassment claim is leaning towards sexism. They are both adults and they both decided to have an affair.


----------



## FalconKing

Shaggy said:


> Have you gone to hr and filed a sexual harassment claim? That would certainly show you choose Malcolm over the scumbag OM.
> 
> Is the OM married? Have you contacted and confesses the affair to her?


Didn't she let this man put his penis inside of her? Didn't she leave her husband for this man? Just because she wants security again does not give her the right to do this. I think this is the worst advice I have ever seen. File sexual harassment claims against a man you had sex with to prove how much you love your husband:scratchhead:

With all the false rape claims and what not men get, why would you even advise this?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Lost's fallout from this will follow her for years to come. Imagine, years from now, she get's into a serious relationship, they fall in love, THEN he finds out why she's divorced... If she reads this thread again and sees this post, I can't help but wonder how she thinks she's going to handle this when it happens. AND it WILL happen. She obviously had no regard for her Husband and children, especially during the false R. I have to wonder if she ever gave any real thought as to how this was going to effect here in the long run...
> 
> I guess she'll probably end up with another divorced cheater. There's certainly enough of them out there.
> 
> Sorry Malcolm, I really wasn't planning on taking a jab at your STBXW, but there's no nice way to ask this.


Lost At Sea, I'm sorry if my post came off as me trying put you in the hot seat. I really was(am) wondering what you thought at the time of the affair in regards to how it was going to effect you, yourself, if you got caught. Now that I re-read my post, I can see it was obviously written by a BS. Which I am. I will try to be more neutral in my wording in the future. On this thread, yours, and any others. It seems to me like you weren't looking to end you marriage, so I really did only want know what you planned on doing if you got caught. My apologies to Malcolm also.


----------



## Malaise

Lost at sea said:


> He checked out this time. I love him. What did i do? Why? *Why do i do this? Why did iassume it would be okay? What a selfish bit## i am*. I have been with malcolm since i was 22. He is the only man i have ever loved. Why didnt i treat him like that is the case?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It seems to me that you did it because you thought so little of Malcom, and believed that he would always take you back. 
Didn't you say something to this affect? That he would take you back after your fling?

This is not rocket science, it's not hard to figure out. You wanted someone else and didn't care how it hurt your H and your children. Yeah you were selfish. And self entitled. Self absorbed. Narcisstic etc. 

He is different this time and that must amaze/scare you. Maybe now you respect him as you didn't before. He changed into a man who won't take your abuse of your family any more.

You have to change into the woman *he* can respect, now he has none for you. You threw away so much for so little.

With counseling you may be able to understand why you did what you did. You may be able to become a new, better woman, wife, and mother.

Malcom may not be there for that, he may have moved on. Can you blame him if he does? 

But if you want to be better for its own sake you have to try anyway. That, at least is in your hands.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

She is remorseful, and wants malcom back, not because of her mistakes, not because of any inner moral compass, but simply because of how malcom responded to her cheating. Do you think if malcom folded, begged for her back, and blubbered before her, that she would have found this remorse and regret anyway? No, she would be with om still, laughing at him with om in disgust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

Lost,
You really should start your own thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Lost At Sea, I'm sorry if my post came off as me trying put you in the hot seat. I really was(am) wondering what you thought at the time of the affair in regards to how it was going to effect you, yourself, if you got caught. Now that I re-read my post, I can see it was obviously written by a BS. Which I am. I will try to be more neutral in my wording in the future. On this thread, yours, and any others. It seems to me like you weren't looking to end you marriage, so I really did only want know what you planned on doing if you got caught. My apologies to Malcolm also.


Nicely done. One can be direct without being mean. One day, I plan on learning that skill myself...but don't hold your breath.


----------



## Numbersixxx

Shaggy said:


> Sorry, wrong term. I meant sexual harassment.


But she was perfectly ok with it at that time.


----------



## Doyle

Hey Malcolm I dont have any great advice to give you I just want to say that i think your doing real well the way your dealing with this and staying civilised with your wife when you probably have a lot of emotion going on.

I think your kids are going to know waht a great dad they have particularly as they get older.
Good luck to you mate.


----------



## Malcolm38

I struggle with trying to be decent in all of this. She has the right to her opinion and I'd like to see her get good advice and help. But honestly, not on my thread. 

So....I've asked my ex to post in her own thread now. Maybe it's all a moot point, but I just want to have my "own place" here. 

Honestly? I think a lot of this is just her being afraid of being alone. Well, welcome to the last 9 months of my damn life. So I'll have to be excused if I'm not swooning right now.


----------



## Will_Kane

Malcolm38 said:


> I struggle with trying to be decent in all of this. She has the right to her opinion and I'd like to see her get good advice and help. But honestly, not on my thread.
> 
> So....I've asked my ex to post in her own thread now. Maybe it's all a moot point, but I just want to have my "own place" here.
> 
> Honestly? I think a lot of this is just her being afraid of being alone. Well, welcome to the last 9 months of my damn life. So I'll have to be excused if I'm not swooning right now.


Her post reeks of selfish fear.

Her leaving you for him and only coming back after _"he became really a different person. I knew it wasn't a real love on both of our ends at that point"_ is, in my opinion, going to be something very difficult to get past. If they hadn't lost their jobs and he was still the same person he was before, your wife still would be with him right now.

Confessing to a second affair doesn't help, either. Once they start the lying, it gets real hard to know when they are telling the truth, unless you have verifiable proof. So the extent of her affairs is something you will never know.

All that said, you do have young children and you should take some time to consider what you really want to do.

It might help if you point your wife in the direction of some books on surviving infidelity. Maybe someone can post that list of what the cheater needs to know about what the betrayed spouse is going through and what to expect.

Your wife seemed like she was in control in your marriage - definitely she felt that way, even if you didn't. Probably she manipulated and lied to you in many more ways than just the infidelity. You did play a part in your marriage problems, too, it's just that you didn't ever think it was a better idea to cheat when you were not happy.

You now could have the chance to re-shape your marriage into something better than it was - for both of you. There's a lot of pain on that path, but you also have children to think about. Do you want them exposed to possible other men of the type that your wife may get involved with in the future?

Take your time and let your wife prove it to you if she wants to stay married to you. Let her work on winning you back.


----------



## FalconKing

Will_Kane said:


> Her post reeks of selfish fear.
> 
> Her leaving you for him and only coming back after _"he became really a different person. I knew it wasn't a real love on both of our ends at that point"_ is, in my opinion, going to be something very difficult to get past. If they hadn't lost their jobs and he was still the same person he was before, your wife still would be with him right now.
> 
> Confessing to a second affair doesn't help, either. Once they start the lying, it gets real hard to know when they are telling the truth, unless you have verifiable proof. So the extent of her affairs is something you will never know.
> 
> All that said, you do have young children and you should take some time to consider what you really want to do.
> 
> It might help if you point your wife in the direction of some books on surviving infidelity. Maybe someone can post that list of what the cheater needs to know about what the betrayed spouse is going through and what to expect.
> 
> Your wife seemed like she was in control in your marriage - definitely she felt that way, even if you didn't. Probably she manipulated and lied to you in many more ways than just the infidelity. You did play a part in your marriage problems, too, it's just that you didn't ever think it was a better idea to cheat when you were not happy.
> 
> You now could have the chance to re-shape your marriage into something better than it was - for both of you. There's a lot of pain on that path, but you also have children to think about. Do you want them exposed to possible other men of the type that your wife may get involved with in the future?
> 
> Take your time and let your wife prove it to you if she wants to stay married to you. Let her work on winning you back.


I agree with everything but the last part. She can't prove anything to you now. She has had sex with other men while married to you and then left you and the children. She came back because she was broke. That will never change. You can find a woman that can treat you better than this. But I know that is the furthest thing from your mind right now. If she is reading this.... Yes, i'm saying that he can do better than you.


----------



## old timer

Just checked:
Lost at Sea still has not started her own thread.


----------



## Acabado

While in some cases it is I don't think is a good idea they both post here at TAM. There are more websites to deal with this. Even with forums "only" for waywards.


----------



## Decorum

"So I'll have to be excused if I'm not swooning right now"

Of course, nor should you be, 

I think you are in exactly the right mindset, 

keep looking at the reality of the situation not the emotion.

You have quite a job ahead of you, 

detach, heal, take care of business, but take care of yourself as well.

Regards,
D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

warlock07 said:


> A sexual harassment claim is leaning towards sexism. They are both adults and they both decided to have an affair.


However he was also her boss and when you are someone's boss even if they walk into your office and demand you do them, you still have an ethical and job related responsibility to say no.

And she has told us who initiaed the affair, how do you know it wasn't him?

In any case anyone who would have an affair with a staff member should no longer be permitted to hold a supervisory position.


----------



## Jonesey

*Sv: 6 months after learning of affair I asked her to leave without me*

Sadly, she probably won't


----------



## eric415

Malcolm38 said:


> I struggle with trying to be decent in all of this. She has the right to her opinion and I'd like to see her get good advice and help. But honestly, not on my thread.
> 
> So....I've asked my ex to post in her own thread now. Maybe it's all a moot point, but I just want to have my "own place" here.
> 
> Honestly? I think a lot of this is just her being afraid of being alone. Well, welcome to the last 9 months of my damn life. So I'll have to be excused if I'm not swooning right now.


Man, your quotes sum up how I feel. I think I have moved on already and that's because it feels like I've been alone for so long already. She wants to save the divorce just because she's afraid of being labeled a cheater or divorcee. She's afraid of being alone. Keep up the good work Malcolm.

If my wife was on my thread, I wouldn't like it too much either.


----------



## staystrong

Sorry if I missed it, but how old are you two?


----------



## Malcolm38

I just turned 39. She is 41.


----------



## Wazza

Midlife crisis time....menopause?

Malcolm, I respect your wish for your wife not to post here, and will not respond to her posts here again. But will you allow her to publicise here if she starts her own thread? Or PM one of us and we can post a link.

She has done you wrong and you are doing the right thing, but she needs help.


----------



## FalconKing

Wazza said:


> Midlife crisis time....menopause?


I think he said she cheated before years ago. Probably a character flaw.


----------



## keko

Wazza said:


> Midlife crisis time....menopause?
> 
> Malcolm, I respect your wish for your wife not to post here, and will not respond to her posts here again. But will you allow her to publicise here if she starts her own thread? Or PM one of us and we can post a link.
> 
> She has done you wrong and you are doing the right thing, but *she needs help.*


Yes, that poor lady needs help urgently.

Please help her out malcolm. She needs help, right now.


----------



## Wazza

keko said:


> Yes, that poor lady needs help urgently.
> 
> Please help her out malcolm. She needs help, right now.


I invite you, being perfect, to cast the first stone.

She has lost rather a lot wouldn't you say? And deservedly so. Doesn't make it wrong to want to help her. For her sake and for the sake of the kids whose mother she is.


----------



## keko

Wazza said:


> I invite you, being perfect, to cast the first stone.
> 
> She has lot rather a lot wouldn't you say? And deservedly so. Doesn't make it wrong to want to help her. For her sake and for the sake of the kids whose mother she is.


You can't fix a morally corrupt person. If you can even call her that.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

Wazza said:


> I invite you, being perfect, to cast the first stone.
> 
> She has lost rather a lot wouldn't you say? And deservedly so. Doesn't make it wrong to want to help her. For her sake and for the sake of the kids whose mother she is.


LOL, no one can accuse you of not being consistent my friend
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

keko said:


> You can't fix a morally corrupt person. If you can even call her that.


So sure are you? So not one 'morally corrupt person has reformed?


----------



## BjornFree

JCD said:


> So sure are you? So not one 'morally corrupt person has reformed?


Well I wouldn't argue with you on that one but the bottom line is its not Malcolm's job. She wants help she can get some on her own.


----------



## Numbersixxx

JCD said:


> So sure are you? So not one 'morally corrupt person has reformed?


A rhetorical expression "lipstick on a pig" comes to mind.


----------



## Wazza

BjornFree said:


> Well I wouldn't argue with you on that one but the bottom line is its not Malcolm's job. She wants help she can get some on her own.


Agree absolutely.

This started because a few of us encouraged her to start a thread and offered to help her if we could.

Those who think its futile don't need to join.


----------



## WyshIknew

I think it all depends on what this help consists of.

I'd hate to see such help turn into postings along the lines of tears thread, where it seemed to me that there was a sense of outrage by some members that Mr tears couldn't see how sorry tears was and he should reconcile and not date women. He was in danger of being turned into the bogey man.

If the advice is to try and help her become a better person, then great. But as a marriage forum I'm not sure we have the necessary skillset to become an IC. Best to leave that to the professionals.

If the advice is to help her wheedle her way back into Malcolm's life, then I think we are doing a dis-service to Malcolm. Just remember that there were two affairs that she has admitted to.

Can anyone say trickle truth? Before people start advising her on ways to sort herself out and reel Malcolm back in let's look at the scenario. 
A one night stand and the affair where she left the home to live with OM basically abandoning her family.
Is there more? A furtive BJ that 'doesn't count', getting 'felt up' etc. Would anyone here put there hard earned cash down as a bet that there wasn't more?

Sorry, rambled a bit there but basically trying to say yes it would be a good thing to help Lost try and become a better person but she is not the wronged person here. The people who need help, advice and guidance are Malcolm and the children. 

They are the ones I would like to see helped by TAM.

However I must say that Malcolm is doing a pretty damn fine job of it now and is doing practically everything right so perhaps he needs less TAM now.


----------



## JCD

> If the advice is to try and help her become a better person, then great. But as a marriage forum I'm not sure we have the necessary skillset to become an IC. Best to leave that to the professionals.


From what I've heard about their success rate, do the professionals have the necessary skillset?


----------



## JCD

WyshIknew said:


> I think it all depends on what this help consists of.
> 
> I'd hate to see such help turn into postings along the lines of tears thread, where it seemed to me that there was a sense of outrage by some members that Mr tears couldn't see how sorry tears was and he should reconcile and not date women. He was in danger of being turned into the bogey man.
> 
> If the advice is to try and help her become a better person, then great. But as a marriage forum I'm not sure we have the necessary skillset to become an IC. Best to leave that to the professionals.
> 
> If the advice is to help her wheedle her way back into Malcolm's life, then I think we are doing a dis-service to Malcolm. Just remember that there were two affairs that she has admitted to.
> 
> Can anyone say trickle truth? Before people start advising her on ways to sort herself out and reel Malcolm back in let's look at the scenario.
> A one night stand and the affair where she left the home to live with OM basically abandoning her family.
> Is there more? A furtive BJ that 'doesn't count', getting 'felt up' etc. Would anyone here put there hard earned cash down as a bet that there wasn't more?
> 
> Sorry, rambled a bit there but basically trying to say yes it would be a good thing to help Lost try and become a better person but she is not the wronged person here. The people who need help, advice and guidance are Malcolm and the children.
> 
> They are the ones I would like to see helped by TAM.
> 
> However I must say that Malcolm is doing a pretty damn fine job of it now and is doing practically everything right so perhaps he needs less TAM now.


This is a number of different questions.

Malcom does not want her as is.

If she changes, he may or may not want her. 

If she changes, she may realize she does not WANT to be married and that the exit affair was heavy on the 'exit' and the affair was a necessary evil.

In any case, the important first step is for her to change.

If she doesn't want to change (and her total lack of response says quite a lot...but whether the message is 'I'm an unrepentant louse' or 'Man, what a bunch of pr*cks who feel free to say the NASTIEST things in the world to a human being', I'm not sure), not much more to say.

April is fast approaching. What is happening at home Malcom? Has she said anything about the gracious people on TAM? Has she changed at all?


----------



## keko

JCD said:


> So not one 'morally corrupt person has reformed?


Of course not, haven't you read my study?

It's been proven to be 100% accurate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Lost at sea said:


> He checked out this time. I love him. What did i do? Why? Why do i do this? Why did iassume it would be okay? What a selfish bit## i am. I have been with malcolm since i was 22. He is the only man i have ever loved. Why didnt i treat him like that is the case?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Some WSs make us laugh with their comment. She was parading with OM and having sex with him right infront of Malcolm, she was ready to abandon her children for OMs dik, she cheated and lied for a long 

but now Malcolm is everything for her, Malcolm is her soul mate. why WSs have this epiphany when their OM dump them after using them like a piece of meat. 

She seems shocked that he checked out this time, she sure is shocked how could he do this to her. She believed Malcolms balls are safe in her purse.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

JCD said:


> So sure are you? So not one 'morally corrupt person has reformed?




May be one in hundred, but should he live his rest of the life in this hope that she will change?

There is plenty of fish in the sea.


----------



## WyshIknew

JCD said:


> From what I've heard about their success rate, do the professionals have the necessary skillset?


This is true!


----------



## Wazza

Kallan Pavithran said:


> May be one in hundred, but should he live his rest of the life in this hope that she will change?
> 
> There is plenty of fish in the sea.


Kallan, this totally misses the point. Totally.

It isn't just about getting back with Malcolm. He seems totally clear that he will NOT reconcile.

It is about helping her be the best she can be for her children and for her.


----------



## FalconKing

Wazza said:


> Kallan, this totally misses the point. Totally.
> 
> It isn't just about getting back with Malcolm. He seems totally clear that he will NOT reconcile.
> 
> It is about helping her be the best she can be for her children and for her.


Wazza I understand where you are coming from. But I just think it's a bit unfair that Malcolm should do all the heavy lifting. He's already been the bigger person in this. I don't think he should resign himself to helping her if he wants to divorce. She has become a burden to him and i think he should be free of that.


----------



## Wazza

FalconKing said:


> Wazza I understand where you are coming from. But I just think it's a bit unfair that Malcolm should do all the heavy lifting. He's already been the bigger person in this. I don't think he should resign himself to helping her if he wants to divorce. She has become a burden to him and i think he should be free of that.


And I agree.


----------



## foolme2x

FalconKing said:


> Wazza I understand where you are coming from. But I just think it's a bit unfair that Malcolm should do all the heavy lifting. He's already been the bigger person in this. I don't think he should resign himself to helping her if he wants to divorce. She has become a burden to him and i think he should be free of that.


I don't know if anyone can help LaS as long as she is wallowing in her "poor poor me" mentality, as evidenced by her postings here. Either she wakes up and breaks free of that thinking, or she doesn't. It has to come from within. The fact that she quit her job is a good sign, I have to say...not that it bodes anything for reconciliation at this point, but that she had the sense to at least get herself out of there.

The danger in trying to help someone who is thinking like she is is that it puts too much of the focus right back on her. It's like the drama of being the confused, desperate WS gets the spotlight right where she wants it, subconsciously or otherwise. It continues to fill that narcissistic need.

One of many small turning points in my reconciliation came when I realized (and told my husband) that I no longer give a **** why he did what he did, and that I was done trying to help him understand what allowed him to make bad choices. I support him in his journey to be emotionally whole and healthy, but that is the extent of it. Because, once again, it all seemed to be about him, and that was not going to do either of us any favors.

If LaS is really interested in fixing what is broken within her, she'll take the grandstanding down a notch and use some of her newfound free time to think about the person she wants to be for the rest of her life. It's just not a change that can be externally-driven with any great success, from my experience, anyway.

I also wonder if there are any addiction issues for LaS, past or current. My H is a recovering alcoholic, and I heard a lot of the "poor me" attitude when he was drinking. His life really sucked, apparently!


----------



## MattMatt

WyshIknew said:


> I think it all depends on what this help consists of.
> 
> I'd hate to see such help turn into postings along the lines of tears thread, where it seemed to me that there was a sense of outrage by some members that Mr tears couldn't see how sorry tears was and he should reconcile and not date women. He was in danger of being turned into the bogey man.
> 
> If the advice is to try and help her become a better person, then great. But as a marriage forum I'm not sure we have the necessary skillset to become an IC. Best to leave that to the professionals.
> 
> If the advice is to help her wheedle her way back into Malcolm's life, then I think we are doing a dis-service to Malcolm. Just remember that there were two affairs that she has admitted to.
> 
> Can anyone say trickle truth? Before people start advising her on ways to sort herself out and reel Malcolm back in let's look at the scenario.
> A one night stand and the affair where she left the home to live with OM basically abandoning her family.
> Is there more? A furtive BJ that 'doesn't count', getting 'felt up' etc. Would anyone here put there hard earned cash down as a bet that there wasn't more?
> 
> Sorry, rambled a bit there but basically trying to say yes it would be a good thing to help Lost try and become a better person but she is not the wronged person here. The people who need help, advice and guidance are Malcolm and the children.
> 
> They are the ones I would like to see helped by TAM.
> 
> However I must say that Malcolm is doing a pretty damn fine job of it now and is doing practically everything right so perhaps he needs less TAM now.


I was sorry that Mr Tears could not (up 'til now!) reconcile. *But I understood full well why he felt he couldn't. Probably the same reason by Malcolm can't. And very valid reasons, too.
*


----------



## Jonesey

JCD said:


> So sure are you? So not one 'morally corrupt person has reformed?


It´s a philosophical question at best.. But how ever you can´t
and never will be able to change the core of who you really are..

Number one reason people fail,when trying to change


----------



## Acabado

foolme2x said:


> The fact that she quit her job is a good sign, I have to say...not that it bodes anything for reconciliation at this point, but that she had the sense to at least get herself out of there.


She didn't quit the job (meaning she didn't do it becasue any reason we can consider a good sign). OP exposed them at work, they were suspended, OM then dumped her. She had nowhere to go and the whole point of working at that location was because OM worked and lived there (she moved away to live with OM). She was very short of options and staying there was not appealing with no OM and no money. So OP allowed her back temporaly untils she gets her own place.

I hope one fine day she get her head straight but for now is it's just that. Hope.


----------



## Malaise

Acabado said:


> She didn't quit the job (meaning she didn't do it becasue any reason we can consider a good sign). OP exposed them at work, they were suspended, OM then dumped her. She had nowhere to go and the whole point of working at that location was because OM worked and lived there (she moved away to live with OM). She was very short of options and staying there was not appealing with no OM and no money. So OP allowed her back temporaly untils she gets her own place.
> 
> I hope one fine day she get her head straight but for now is it's just that. Hope.


:iagree:

I think that we can all safely assume that she would still be with OM if OP hadn't exposed.

She came back crying only because of what happened to HER and not out out of any remorse or regret for what she did to HIM (OP).

Let's not give her credit for that. If, as Acabado says she get's her head on straight, then that will be creditworthy.


----------



## jnj express

Kids may not play a part in this---due to the horrible level of cheating that went on here

Not only did she ONS, and hide that for 10 yrs---which I am sure is causing malcolm to wonder if this is really the tip of an iceberg---but in this present situation---she ran off to another city to be with her lover----SHE LEFT HER KIDS AND H. HI AND DRY AND BASICALLY TOLD THEM "F" YOU

This is a pretty severe episode or level of cheating

Yes there is lots of cheating, but at least in most cheating, the cheater stays with the family, and just doesn't run off and leave the family--------not condoning the cheating, what makes this really nasty is her running off, and leaving the family

For all of you, who are pushing malcolm to possibly R---let me ask you, if you were in this situation, and you were the betrayed, could you look at/talk to/or ever want to touch this woman ever again???????

How much misery and pain do you need to endure---for the rest of your life


----------



## old timer

I haven't noticed anyone pushing Malcolm to R.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lost at sea

I do not believe Malcolm is interested in staying married to me at this stage. I love him but i can understand why that isnt easily believed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

You need to be honest in your posts. I saw your new thread and it is not the same facts as here. The truth will set you free or at least get you help.


----------



## Malaise

Lost at sea said:


> I do not believe Malcolm is interested in staying married to me at this stage. I love him but i can understand why that isnt easily believed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you love him why did you cheat?

It's easy to say you love him when your world is turned upside down and you need someplace to go.

But you are only saying that because you have no choice.

You need him now. When he, and your kids, needed you, you left.

It's bad enough leaving your H. But you abandoned your children.

You're right about one thing, it's not easily believed.


----------



## foolme2x

Lost at sea said:


> .
> *I have quit my job* and will be taking a part time job while i get my crap together. I will also sign divorce papers that are in his favor. I think the only way to get him back is to do this. I dont want himto see other women but if he did i would wait for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I took this to mean that she chose to quit her job (after being involuntarily put on a temporary leave). Maybe I misinterpreted it.


----------



## gbonham77

Lost at sea said:


> I do not believe Malcolm is interested in staying married to me at this stage.* I love him* but i can understand why that isnt easily believed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stop tell that crap you are not forgiven forever you are cheating s forever


----------



## BjornFree

Lost at sea said:


> I do not believe Malcolm is interested in staying married to me at this stage. I love him but i can understand why that isnt easily believed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell me, would you be interested in staying married to you?

Actions need to support your words. If this is the brand of love you're offering, I'm sorry to say that there are people out there that have much better deals. 

You might claim to understand why Malcolm is leaving you but if you're honest with yourself you'll realize that you actually don't because you feel entitled to a reconciliation, this is exactly what made you choose to continue your affair when you got caught the first time round. A simple analogy would be you standing in front of two doors with the choice of entering one and enjoying what you could get out of it. You chose your AP, and that was the signal for Malcolm to close his door. 

You only chose to come back to Mal because carrying out an affair would have been terribly inconvenient once it was exposed and the OM didn't really want anything from you apart from an easy lay. So you only came back because you had no other choice. Sorry but Malcolm doesn't have to be your Plan B at all. In fact he doesn't have to be anyone's plan B. So if he does reconcile with you, which I think is highly unlikely. You will be his plan B as you should.

That said, its never too late to change. Its better to fix your problems before you destroy another relationship and yourself with your destructive behavior.


----------



## gbonham77

malcolm is free to date any woman more beautiful and has great moral if he wants to have date, ONS, he is free to do that even if malcolm does not divorce you he is free to do what ever he wants sleep with any woman who is far more better than you, you are not forgiven


----------



## old timer

gbonham77 said:


> ...you are not forgiven


^^^ God speaks....


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

gbonham77 said:


> malcolm is free to date any woman more beautiful and has great moral if he wants to have date, ONS, he is free to do that even* if malcolm does not divorce you he is free to do what ever he wants sleep with any woma*n who is far more better than you, you are not forgiven


Let's not get ridiculous now, that makes him a hypocrite.


----------



## JCD

jnj express said:


> Kids may not play a part in this---due to the horrible level of cheating that went on here
> 
> Not only did she ONS, and hide that for 10 yrs---which I am sure is causing malcolm to wonder if this is really the tip of an iceberg---but in this present situation---she ran off to another city to be with her lover----SHE LEFT HER KIDS AND H. HI AND DRY AND BASICALLY TOLD THEM "F" YOU
> 
> This is a pretty severe episode or level of cheating
> 
> Yes there is lots of cheating, but at least in most cheating, the cheater stays with the family, and just doesn't run off and leave the family--------not condoning the cheating, what makes this really nasty is her running off, and leaving the family
> 
> For all of you, who are pushing malcolm to possibly R---let me ask you, if you were in this situation, and you were the betrayed, could you look at/talk to/or ever want to touch this woman ever again???????
> 
> How much misery and pain do you need to endure---for the rest of your life


Whoa Hoss! Let's slow down a bit.

When did this happen? February. Know what February is? The middle of the school year. And she has NO apartment...the place she is living in has a bachelor who never had kids...and she doesn't really know him.

Would YOU drag your kids into that situation? Not as a responsbile parent.

This isn't giving her credit. This is where she choose to be. But it is a far cry of thinking "Well...I have been dumped by my hubby, so I'll set something up by the time school ends so I can bring my kids to be with me' to 'F YOU KIDS! I don't care about you!"


----------



## JCD

I have created a reasonably short summary of Malcom's thread on Lost's thread in the interests of completness.

If it is in error, Malcom, please correct it. But by the same token, just as Lost probably shouldn't post on this thread, you probably shouldn't post on her's except to correct something like this.


----------



## JCD

gbonham77 said:


> hes not hypocrite ... he is free to do everything.
> oh well i guarantee that after her posting on TAM i am sure that they will reconcille, because many people here will defense her helping her to reach the reconcilliation way. this is typical of TAM so many WS and BW reconcille after the affair, Cliche. Because they do not offer advise they offer the help of Marriage Counsellor as advertised on this website, Money oriented Counsellor


They loved each other once. What is such a stretch that they might be able to love each other again?

Granted, she needs a HUGE dose of reality. And in days gone by, men AND women had to suck up larger and longer humilitations without the benefit of divorce. It just wasn't done! So people suffered...and found a way through these issues.

And there are the kids. Kids do not trump all...but they should carry quite a bit of weight.

In general, Mr. Fifty Six posts, you are incorrect. Many TAMers seem hair triggered for divorce on infidelity. She/He cheats...out with you, thou wretched spawn of cheaters!

But...everyone likes a happy ending. HAPPY ending. She needs to do the whole 'second reel' of self reflection and change before we have a prayer of a 'Hollywood' ending.


----------



## gbonham77

JCD said:


> They loved each other once. What is such a stretch that they might be able to love each other again?
> 
> Granted, she needs a HUGE dose of reality. And in days gone by, men AND women had to suck up larger and longer humilitations without the benefit of divorce. It just wasn't done! So people suffered...and found a way through these issues.
> 
> And there are the kids. Kids do not trump all...but they should carry quite a bit of weight.
> 
> In general, Mr. Fifty Six posts, you are incorrect. Many TAMers seem hair triggered for divorce on infidelity. She/He cheats...out with you, thou wretched spawn of cheaters!
> 
> *But...everyone likes a happy ending. HAPPY ending. She needs to do the whole 'second reel' of self reflection and change before we have a prayer of a 'Hollywood' ending.*


you all want this, first you advise to divorce but after seeing the remorseful(nonsense), honesty(nonsense) from the cheating woman then you all show your real advise, try to work on yourself after affair learn how to crawl back with so much hypocrisy to get the betrayed husband back i bet 100% this will be another happy ending thread in TAM so that the counsellor advertise will have more benefit.


----------



## jnj express

Hey JCD---I was talking about the situation when Lost at Sea got her job transferred to the other city, where her lover worked, and had her torrid A., with her lover,----which only came to an end cuz they were put on leave without pay---so the money ran out, reality set in, and her lover didn't handle life in fantasyland, (her new reality, just kicking in) as she wanted him to, so he didn't look so hot anymore------it is then that she came home---that is what I am talking about when she basically said "F" You to her kids/H/mge.

Otherwise you tell me, what you would call that type of action, I think we all know that had Malcolm not gotten their jobs put on suspension, the A., would still be going on as we write this, and she would still be gone from her kids-------This is cheating at a much worse level, as far as I am concerned, than having the A., but still being with the family---which is bad enuff---but just leaving the 3 of them, and running off to live with her lover----that is pure nastiness.


----------



## JCD

You know what? You COULD be 100% correct.

But there are other interpretations. First, check out my summary on Lost's page. I think it's page four.

So...hubby throws her out of the house when he learns about the affair. The famous "him or me" speech. Props to Malcom for that!

She says him...but then she takes a phone call from the OM. Malcom gets very angry (rightfully so) and calls her on it...and leaves the house. Not having a problem with his actions. Let me be clear here.

So...they have a frank conversation. She says she wants to be married to Malcom...and still be friends with the OM. This is hardly surprising. You can't claim 'cake eating' and act shocked at this kind of statement. For the record, when _*I*_ got this speech, I pretty much had the same response to my wife.

Now, there were a number of different ways Malcom could have addressed this, but he took the Typical TAM Tirad and booted her ass out.

Again...it was A way to deal with this. Even one which was good for him. If she wasn't all his, he didn't want her. This is the SECOND time he's thrown her out of the house for those keeping count.

So...what does she do? Her hubby told her he was done with her. Bye bye! Don't let the door hit your butt on the way out the door!

What does she do? Now, SHE had a couple ways to deal with this. She got walking papers. She could have groveled and come crawling back. She could have totally reassessed her life. She could have signed right then and walked away. (If you were fired from your job...would you crawl back to them or seek another job...just a bit of perspective...)

Well...Malcom didn't want her. He said so. She had someone who DID want her...and you are surprised that this is the route she took? Because acting any other way would have made her mentally realize that she threw away 17 years and destroyed her reputation for absolutely NOTHING!

IF she could walk into OM's life and bring her kids with her, she could salvage something for herself...but she couldn't bring her kids immediately.

Read this very carefully. I VIEW THESE AS VERY SELFISH ACTS. But they are not TOTALLY selfish and they are NOT irrational.

You had two idiots in a bar pushing on each other's chests back and forth and BOOM, things blew up. Malcom was the wronged guy but still...nobody stepped back and took a deep breath here.

SHE should have taken a few moments to think about things. Malcom had other options...

Her sins are bad enough. No need to spin them even worse...or take not a moment to see things from the other person's POV.

Edited to add:

I want to take a moment to talk a bit about Plan A, Plan B, Plan Crap. This example is a reasonably good place to make it.

Everyone is characterizing Lost as 'Oh...she's just back with Malcom because he's her Plan B.'

Well...I can't say it's false, but the facts on the ground don't support it.

From what little I've read (and trust me, I'm a rank novice here), OM was a dark chocolate sundae with extra whipped cream. He was a $300 pair of shoes which you can't possible afford...but buy anyway. He was that fly fishing rod which daddy just HAD to have...despite putting the family in the hole financially for a month or two.

She saw this guy less than once a month for a year. I'm sure she had an ACTIVE 'sweetie goo goo' text and phone a thon with this guy, but from what has been offered, the OM was her 'little bit on the side'.

Yes, this is offensive in and of itself. But her self declared Plan A was Malcom Plus...

Malcom didn't like the Plus. I don't blame him. But when asked, she wanted to stay. She wasn't given that option when she gave her negotiating position.

So Malcom, bear that in mind. She only 'ran off' when she wasn't allowed to stay. Now, I understand how hurtful that is. But AFAICT, unless this 'transfer' was arranged weeks in advance, the _OM_ was 'Plan B.'

Something to think about.

But...this is her third ride on this merry go round...interspaced several years apart. So...not a lot of SYMPATHY, but a bit of understanding.


----------



## gbonham77

JCD said:


> You know what? You COULD be 100% correct.
> 
> But there are other interpretations. First, check out my summary on Lost's page. I think it's page four.
> 
> So...hubby throws her out of the house when he learns about the affair. The famous "him or me" speech. Props to Malcom for that!
> 
> She says him...but then she takes a phone call from the OM. Malcom gets very angry (rightfully so) and calls her on it...and leaves the house. Not having a problem with his actions. Let me be clear here.
> 
> So...they have a frank conversation. She says she wants to be married to Malcom...and still be friends with the OM. This is hardly surprising. You can't claim 'cake eating' and act shocked at this kind of statement. For the record, when _*I*_ got this speech, I pretty much had the same response to my wife.
> 
> Now, there were a number of different ways Malcom could have addressed this, but he took the Typical TAM Tirad and booted her ass out.
> 
> Again...it was A way to deal with this. Even one which was good for him. If she wasn't all his, he didn't want her. This is the SECOND time he's thrown her out of the house for those keeping count.
> 
> So...what does she do? Her hubby told her he was done with her. Bye bye! Don't let the door hit your butt on the way out the door!
> 
> What does she do? Now, SHE had a couple ways to deal with this. She got walking papers. She could have groveled and come crawling back. She could have totally reassessed her life. She could have signed right then and walked away. (If you were fired from your job...would you crawl back to them or seek another job...just a bit of perspective...)
> 
> Well...Malcom didn't want her. He said so. She had someone who DID want her...and you are surprised that this is the route she took? Because acting any other way would have made her mentally realize that she threw away 17 years and destroyed her reputation for absolutely NOTHING!
> 
> IF she could walk into OM's life and bring her kids with her, she could salvage something for herself...but she couldn't bring her kids immediately.
> 
> Read this very carefully. I VIEW THESE AS VERY SELFISH ACTS. But they are not TOTALLY selfish and they are NOT irrational.
> 
> You had two idiots in a bar pushing on each other's chests back and forth and BOOM, things blew up. *Malcom was the wronged guy but still*...nobody stepped back and took a deep breath here.
> 
> SHE should have taken a few moments to think about things. Malcom had other options...
> 
> Her sins are bad enough. No need to spin them even worse...or take not a moment to see things from the other person's POV.


Malcolm never wrong in this marriage, this s is wrong totally and totally selfish and cannot be forgiven in marriage


----------



## JCD

gbonham77 said:


> Malcolm never wrong in this marriage, this s is wrong totally and totally selfish and cannot be forgiven in marriage


WrongED. As in...he is sitting in a bar and someone spills a beer on him. HE is the victim. But that doesn't mean that he can do no wrong...it does not mean he can't overreact etc.

That being said, while I feel this marriage might have been saved and her running off could have been avoided, I can't really blame him for any of his actions if he is happy and satisfied with the results.


----------



## illwill

You do realize most men do not take back cheating wives? I've never seen a study that puts that number above 40%. Malcolm did not need TAM to tell him to kick her out. Neither did I. Neither do most men. To me the issue is not that he kept tossing her out, it's that even then, she did not get it. He gave her more mercy then most guys would ever afford her.

And many remorseful waywards who are rejected still don't go back to AP, because that person now represents the destruction of their marriage. Look at Rookie's story and to some extent Tears-both woman became nuns. 

If she was truly sorry the moment she saw her hubby's tears any thoughts of being with the AP should have stopped. I do not believe in the fog, so if a cheater sees the terror and horror of their spouse on DDay, yet still cheats, that person deserves no chance at R.

My Aunt was kicked out for cheating-she could have gone back to her AP, but instead went to a homeless shelter. This act of humility is what got her a second chance.

There is simply no way Malcolm owed her ANYTHING after she cheated and left him and his children. That act says everything. I have posted on her thread and I would like to help her, but anything that hints at her being wronged by Malcolm, in a any way is beyond the pale.


----------



## JCD

illwill said:


> You do realize most men do not take back cheating wives? I've never seen a study that puts that number above 40%. Malcolm did not need TAM to tell him to kick her out. Neither did I. Neither do most men. To me the issue is not that he kept tossing her out, it's that even then, she did not get it. He gave her more mercy then most guys would ever afford her.
> 
> And many remorseful waywards who are rejected still don't go back to AP, because that person now represents the destruction of their marriage. Look at Rookie's story and to some extent Tears-both woman became nuns.
> 
> If she was truly sorry the moment she saw her hubby's tears any thoughts of being with the AP should have stopped. I do not believe in the fog, so if a cheater sees the terror and horror of their spouse on DDay, yet still cheats, that person deserves no chance at R.
> 
> My Aunt was kicked out for cheating-she could have gone back to her AP, but instead went to a homeless shelter. This act of humility is what got her a second chance.
> 
> There is simply no way Malcolm owed her ANYTHING after she cheated and left him and his children. That act says everything. I have posted on her thread and I would like to help her, but anything that hints at her being wronged by Malcolm, in a any way is beyond the pale.


Beyond the Pale?

OWED? No. That is what Grace is about: undeserved forgiveness. She wasn't OWED anything. What is that famous Dr. Laura line? Women whine and Men Divorce.

Things MIGHT have been fixed. 

My story: My wife gave me the 'her or me' speech...and I said she wasn't that great. 

I didn't drop my friend immediately...but my wife stayed by my side, we had ugly talks...she gave me insight into her POV...I got how hurt she was. She badgered me occasionally and as I got more and more defensive, I finally started seeing that what I was defending...really wasn't defensible.

So...that is ANOTHER way, a non TAM way to go.

As I said NUMEROUS times...nothing Malcom did was wrong. That doesn't mean there weren't other options.


----------



## Doc Who

JCD - I get that your schtick is to show us what waywards feel and how it is human and all that. But please, the fact you actually DEFEND her on choosing the OM and moving 250 miles away to screw him OVER her family is beyond the pale.

I get what you are trying to do. And frankly, much of what you post is useful. Other POVs are interesting to consider and make for a more enlightened discussion. But when you just make crap up to defend the wayward, it is really negates what positive effect you might have.

Malcolm only kicked her out when she went jonesin' for OM. She had a clear choice. Stop with the addiction for OMs attention and **** and choose her family, WHICH includes her daughters. She may be a crack addict for the OM, but she knew she was a Mom. She just flipped her family the giant bird. THEN Malcolm insisted she leave.

And sir, SHE also had a choice then. But she chose to sleep with the OM, still married, still a mother. She had a choice then too. You conveniently paint her as a victim of Malcolm's absolute RIGHT to defend a marital boundary. 

Just because your wife did not doesn't make it an option for Malcolm. He has to face himself in the mirror every day and when he does, taking back a soulless repeated cheater who chose OM over her family became too much, he took action he needed to start healing.

And sometimes sir, that is way more important that offering the soulless betrayer yet another chance to destroy.

Sometimes, it is clear that wayward mindset is pervasive.


----------



## jnj express

Hey JCD---what you say is plausable, and basically happened---BUT----lost at sea had options----main option---if she REALLY WANTED her mge---which at that point she didn't------------

Malcolm has no right to boot her----by law unless he has prior title to that home, (as in it was his prior to mge.) she has a legal right to be in that home---so she could have stayed and fought for her kids/mge---what did she do---she left and eventually ran off to be with her lover-------that is a very high, nasty level of cheating, no matter how you spin it

Now she is back, malcolm is taking this to D., as he should, and lost at sea, gets to pick up the pieces of her life, and start over--------no one responsible for what she did but her------he gave her chances---she chose to dump on her mge vows---its the running off to another town, and leaving her kids, that i really find offensive


----------



## illwill

The TAM way you speak of is the way most people react to being cheated on. If he had never come here, and just asked his friends what he should do, what do you think they would say? 

And what was OWED to Malcolm was a faithful spouse-he did not get that. THAT was beyond the pale. 

And don't get me started on Dr. Laura and all her... um views.

Malcolm had a deal breaker in cheating. For some there are other ways to deal with it. But, for many there is no other way to deal with your spouse having sex with another. For Malcolm, it was likely always going to turn out this way, esp considering if he had not taken a hard line, she would continue to cheat as she always has, and he'd be right back here in a year. Anything else would have caused him extended pain. 

And even if he did want to R he still needed to take decisive (kicking her out) actions, because she is a serial cheater. In the end, he made the right choice for himself, the same choice many make without TAM, so the point is moot.


----------



## Wazza

Malcolm has decided not to reconcile. I haven't seen him change his mind on that.

Even when you want to reconcile it is hard.

If Malcolm chooses to think about reconciliation then we should discuss it. I don't see any point to trying to convince him otherwise.

I'm also afraid that to me, Lost had her chance to end the affair, went to OM, surrendering her marriage and children, and did not return till OM dumped her. That makes Malcolm very much plan b in my eyes. Now, i think that was partly the fog. Not necessarily normal for LostAtSea. But still plan B.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Doc Who said:


> JCD - I get that your schtick is to show us what waywards feel and how it is human and all that. But please, the fact you actually DEFEND her on choosing the OM and moving 250 miles away to screw him OVER her family is beyond the pale.
> 
> I get what you are trying to do. And frankly, much of what you post is useful. Other POVs are interesting to consider and make for a more enlightened discussion. But when you just make crap up to defend the wayward, it is really negates what positive effect you might have.
> 
> Malcolm only kicked her out when she went jonesin' for OM. *She had a clear choice. Stop with the addiction for OMs attention and **** and choose her family, WHICH includes her daughters. She may be a crack addict for the OM, but she knew she was a Mom.* She just flipped her family the giant bird. THEN Malcolm insisted she leave.
> 
> And sir, SHE also had a choice then. *But she chose to sleep with the OM, still married, still a mother. She had a choice then too.* You conveniently paint her as a victim of Malcolm's absolute RIGHT to defend a marital boundary.
> 
> Just because your wife did not doesn't make it an option for Malcolm. He has to face himself in the mirror every day and when he does, *taking back a soulless repeated cheater who chose OM over her family became too much, he took action he needed to start healing.*
> 
> And sometimes sir, that is way more important that offering the soulless betrayer yet another chance to destroy.
> 
> Sometimes, it is clear that wayward mindset is pervasive.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Acabado said:


> She didn't quit the job (meaning she didn't do it becasue any reason we can consider a good sign). *OP exposed them at work, they were suspended, OM then dumped her.* She had nowhere to go and the whole point of working at that location was because OM worked and lived there (she moved away to live with OM). *She was very short of options and staying there was not appealing with no OM and no money.* So OP allowed her back temporaly untils she gets her own place.
> 
> I hope one fine day she get her head straight but for now is it's just that. Hope.




:iagree:

Her claim of quitting the job is a BS.


----------



## FalconKing

illwill said:


> The TAM way you speak of is the way most people react to being cheated on. If he had never come here, and just asked his friends what he should do, what do you think they would say?
> 
> And what was OWED to Malcolm was a faithful spouse-he did not get that. THAT was beyond the pale.
> 
> *And don't get me started on Dr. Laura and all her... um views.*
> 
> Malcolm had a deal breaker in cheating. For some there are other ways to deal with it. But, for many there is no other way to deal with your spouse having sex with another. For Malcolm, it was likely always going to turn out this way, esp considering if he had not taken a hard line, she would continue to cheat as she always has, and he'd be right back here in a year. Anything else would have caused him extended pain.
> 
> And even if he did want to R he still needed to take decisive (kicking her out) actions, because she is a serial cheater. In the end, he made the right choice for himself, the same choice many make without TAM, so the point is moot.


Dr. Laura cheated on her first husband multiple times (while she was a licensed family therapist) and finally left him for her now husband who was also married at the time. One of the men she was sleeping with had old nude photos of her and somewhere they are posted on the internet. She has a PHD I believe in physiology and hasn't had an active therapy license in years. She advises women to never divorce and man worship because she is projecting her guilt of the mistakes she's made in her life. She's in a horrible marriage but is too embarrassed to divorce now and probably thinks she deserves this on some level. She's also a racist. No one should take that woman seriously. She is just a woman with deep issues who's life contradicts all the advice she has given.


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## eric415

Talk about Malcolm forgiving her or not is not important. You can forgive someone but if you do not trust them or love them anymore after what they did to you, then what's the point of R. That's how I feel in my situation right now and Malcolm may feel similarly. Lost needs to work on herself and heal not for the sake of the marriage but for HER and the children. IMO, Lost had her chance and blew it multiple times. She claims Love, but is that love? I call it dependency. She has no one else now and it dependent on Malcolm for her future now that the OM is gone. 

Someone told me yesterday that there is no such thing as love. It's just a chemical feeling of dependency. I don't know if I agree with that as you can be dependent on someone and not have that feeling of love. But, he makes an interesting argument.


----------



## lordmayhem

jnj express said:


> Hey JCD---I was talking about the situation when Lost at Sea got her job transferred to the other city, where her lover worked, and had her torrid A., with her lover,----which only came to an end cuz they were put on leave without pay---so the money ran out, reality set in, and her lover didn't handle life in fantasyland, (her new reality, just kicking in) as she wanted him to, so he didn't look so hot anymore------it is then that she came home---that is what I am talking about when she basically said "F" You to her kids/H/mge.
> 
> Otherwise you tell me, what you would call that type of action, I think we all know that had Malcolm not gotten their jobs put on suspension, *the A., would still be going on as we write this, and she would still be gone from her kids*-------This is cheating at a much worse level, as far as I am concerned, than having the A., but still being with the family---which is bad enuff---but just leaving the 3 of them, and running off to live with her lover----that is pure nastiness.


*OMG. That's despicable.*


----------



## The-Deceived

Malcolm - I commend you on how you handled this. My stbxww moves out April 1st. A better life with a decent woman is waiting for you.

Apparently JCD is the poster boy for justifying/minimizing the heinousness of cheating. Makes me feel icky.


----------



## Wazza

eric415 said:


> Talk about Malcolm forgiving her or not is not important. You can forgive someone but if you do not trust them or love them anymore after what they did to you, then what's the point of R. That's how I feel in my situation right now and Malcolm may feel similarly. Lost needs to work on herself and heal not for the sake of the marriage but for HER and the children. IMO, Lost had her chance and blew it multiple times. She claims Love, but is that love? I call it dependency. She has no one else now and it dependent on Malcolm for her future now that the OM is gone.
> 
> Someone told me yesterday that there is no such thing as love. It's just a chemical feeling of dependency. I don't know if I agree with that as you can be dependent on someone and not have that feeling of love. But, he makes an interesting argument.


Hey Eric. For me, love regrew. Trust...never totally, but my wife is, I think a better than average risk.

At some stage you will want to date again. And the you will think about how to find someone you can totally trust, and realise you cannot. Not totally.

You just have to live alone, or find someone worth the risk. No other choice as far as I can see.


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## remorseful strayer

Malcolm:

The anger is normal. 

As has been said, you were in shock and denial for six months. Now you are in the very normal and to be expected anger phase. 

Rather than rush to divorce, why not try a separation. 

If she continues to work on things you may change your mind. 

Whether to stay or go is up to you, now. Whichever decision you make is okay. 

Just don't rush into anything. 

My wife divorced me and we are only now trying to reconcile.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Malcolm, contrary to gbwhatever, I wasn't calling you a hypocrite now. I read the thread and her affair, leaving and lying made you say no as of now.Everyone was talking for or against R. If you R just to get revenge or because you are OWED, as gb suggests that would make you a hypocrite.

IMO of course.


----------



## illwill

FalconKing said:


> Dr. Laura cheated on her first husband multiple times (while she was a licensed family therapist) and finally left him for her now husband who was also married at the time. One of the men she was sleeping with had old nude photos of her and somewhere they are posted on the internet. She has a PHD I believe in physiology and hasn't had an active therapy license in years. She advises women to never divorce and man worship because she is projecting her guilt of the mistakes she's made in her life. She's in a horrible marriage but is too embarrassed to divorce now and probably thinks she deserves this on some level. She's also a racist. No one should take that woman seriously. She is just a woman with deep issues who's life contradicts all the advice she has given.


There are MORE then enough reasons to not quote this broken quack.


----------



## sandc

FalconKing said:


> Dr. Laura cheated on her first husband multiple times (while she was a licensed family therapist) and finally left him for her now husband who was also married at the time. One of the men she was sleeping with had old nude photos of her and somewhere they are posted on the internet. She has a PHD I believe in physiology and hasn't had an active therapy license in years. She advises women to never divorce and man worship because she is projecting her guilt of the mistakes she's made in her life. She's in a horrible marriage but is too embarrassed to divorce now and probably thinks she deserves this on some level. She's also a racist. No one should take that woman seriously. She is just a woman with deep issues who's life contradicts all the advice she has given.


Not to defend DL here, not my intent at all. Just saying that sometimes the best advice can come from the people who've screwed their lives up the most. They know how they screwed up and are just advising you not to make the same mistakes. That's why I like hanging around the parolees at church. I want my son to learn from them.


----------



## FalconKing

sandc said:


> Not to defend DL here, not my intent at all. Just saying that sometimes the best advice can come from the people who've screwed their lives up the most. They know how they screwed up and are just advising you not to make the same mistakes. That's why I like hanging around the parolees at church. I want my son to learn from them.


I agree with you 100%. But I would prefer someone who could own up to their faults, admit there mistakes and what they learned from them. That's real and admirable. She projects though. She doesn't really like women because she doesn't like herself. And she tries to hide her faults. When it was revealed about her nude photos and old affairs, all she said was how much of a injustice was done to her.


----------



## sandc

FalconKing said:


> I agree with you 100%. But I would prefer someone who could own up to their faults, admit there mistakes and what they learned from them. That's real and admirable. She projects though. She doesn't really like women because she doesn't like herself. And she tries to hide her faults. When it was revealed about her nude photos and old affairs, all she said was how much of a injustice was done to her.


That is true. They guys in the prison ministry at church all own their mistakes. Gives them more cred in my book. In anybody's book.


----------



## JCD

The-Deceived said:


> Malcolm - I commend you on how you handled this. My stbxww moves out April 1st. A better life with a decent woman is waiting for you.
> 
> Apparently JCD is the poster boy for justifying/minimizing the heinousness of cheating. Makes me feel icky.


That isn't ick you are feeling. It's cognitive dissonance. Since you are incredibly sure that all waywards lack anything like love or affection for anything besides themselves, being exposed to the idea that they might have rational reasons and can have some affection for someone besides themselves strikes a particularly grim blow to your core beliefs that they are incapable of love and probably stupid.

Or it could just be that pastrami sandwich you had today.


----------



## pidge70

JCD said:


> That isn't ick you are feeling. It's cognitive dissonance. Since you are incredibly sure that all waywards lack anything like love or affection for anything besides themselves, being exposed to the idea that they might have rational reasons and can have some affection for someone besides themselves strikes a particularly grim blow to your core beliefs that they are incapable of love and probably stupid.
> 
> Or it could just be that pastrami sandwich you had today.


 :rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Numbersixxx

FalconKing said:


> Dr. Laura cheated on her first husband multiple times (while she was a licensed family therapist) and finally left him for her now husband who was also married at the time. One of the men she was sleeping with had old nude photos of her and somewhere they are posted on the internet. She has a PHD I believe in physiology and hasn't had an active therapy license in years. She advises women to never divorce and man worship because she is projecting her guilt of the mistakes she's made in her life. She's in a horrible marriage but is too embarrassed to divorce now and probably thinks she deserves this on some level. She's also a racist. No one should take that woman seriously. She is just a woman with deep issues who's life contradicts all the advice she has given.


Forgive my ignorance but who is Dr. Laura?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FalconKing

Numbersixxx said:


> Forgive my ignorance but who is Dr. Laura?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They say ignorance is bliss...

She's a so called relationship expert who has her on radio show, youtube channel and writes books. She has this in your face approach and tends to tell women off. She isn't a particularly decent human being though.


----------



## 3putt

FalconKing said:


> They say ignorance is bliss...
> 
> She's a so called relationship expert who has her on radio show, youtube channel and writes books. She has this in your face approach and tends to tell women off. She isn't a particularly decent human being though.


She's the proverbial pig with lipstick, and the moral code to match.

This woman........

whew


----------



## Wazza

3putt said:


> She's the proverbial pig with lipstick, and the moral code to match.
> 
> This woman........
> 
> whew


Nice photos though.


----------



## 3putt

Wazza said:


> Nice photos though.


So, you were as dumb as I was, huh?

 is dead on the money.


----------



## Wazza

3putt said:


> So, you were as dumb as I was, huh?
> 
> is dead on the money.


Ummm...a friend told me....?
The things you learn on TAM


----------



## FalconKing

Wazza said:


> Ummm...a friend told me....?
> The things you learn on TAM


----------



## JCD

I am half blissful. I listened to her occasionally back before all this blew up. I did recall the quote because what she said about male and female reactions to infidelity rang true.

That is all I am saying about HER.

And thank you for the warning about not looking at her pictures.

I want to be blissful


----------



## bandit.45

I looked. She wasn't that bad looking. 

Weren't those pics taken by her affair partner?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FalconKing

yep.


----------



## illwill

:smthumbup: Ha. Awesome.


Wazza said:


> Nice photos though.


----------



## old timer

JCD said:


> And thank you for the warning about not looking at her pictures.
> 
> I want to be blissful


Internet porn off-limits for you.JCD? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

old timer said:


> Internet porn off-limits for you.JCD?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Quite the opposite actually. My wife encourages me to make sure he is 'up to par' because of the time we spend seperated.

And she'd rather I see pixels than other women.

Meh. I just assumed from the comments that Dr. Laura wasn't up to Briana Banks standards.


----------



## Madman1

Dr. Laura would get banned on TAM! :rofl:


The idiot callers never learn...
1st caller, Hi Dr laura my Boy Friend wont spend time with me.
Dr Laura- Why not sweety?
1st caller- He says his wife wont let him out of the house.
Dr laura-Thats what you get for being such a slytt, find a single man next time.

2nd caller, Hi Dr Laura my Boy Friend wont spend time with me...
.
and on and on it goes. :scratchhead: :rofl:


----------



## foolme2x

Wondering what this little stretch of silence from Malcolm and LaS means.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were at least thoughts of attempting R, and I hope Malcolm would not feel uncomfortable coming back to post about it if that is the case.

The push for swift and immediate justice (divorce) from some people here is understandable, and I'm guessing it's based on their own experiences. But M & LaS have kids...he called her his (former?) best friend, even after all of the pain he's gone through. There's a shared history built up, even with the landmines that she has voluntarily and randomly set throughout their marriage.

My WH and I are on a similar timetable to theirs w/D-Day, and if our divorce were to be finalized as quickly as theirs is, my children would be basket cases. Even if LaS was out of the house for a while, chances are the kids don't have a clue how bad things were and are. I think the mental health of the kids has to be considered as well when deciding to try to reconcile or, alternately, how quickly to divorce.

My husband and his siblings had a divorce sprung on them literally out of the blue when they were young. None of them had any clue it was coming, and I believe it f'ed them all up but good. They are all waywards. As I've said before, explanations are not excuses, but to have that ultimate security swallowed up by a black hole in the space of a 3-minute talk from your dad when you're 8, 10, 11 years old...I consider that to be an influence that shaped my husband's personality. Very similar to the feeling of realizing your spouse has been having an affair! Of course, lots of people have divorced parents and they are able to have healthy relationships. So you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

But no matter what the end result turns out to be, it doesn't hurt to slow down and take a breath when there are kids involved.


----------



## sandc

JCD said:


> Quite the opposite actually. My wife encourages me to make sure he is 'up to par' because of the time we spend seperated.
> 
> And she'd rather I see pixels than other women.
> 
> Meh. I just assumed from the comments that Dr. Laura wasn't up to Briana Banks standards.


That would be a correct assumption.


----------



## barbados

MattMatt said:


> You remind me of a child of friends. Apparently she thought that teachers never left the school they taught at and remained in a cupboard at the school.
> 
> I am afraid that this is your attitude to your husband and your children. Whilst you are having your affair your husband and children are back in the marriage, waiting in a cupboard until you next have a need for them.
> 
> In your mind you have dehumanised your husband and children. They are no longer human beings, they are automata like those working models of a happy family of times gone by in a lifestyle museum.


Wow MattMatt, that is an amazing way to put it. I couldn't agree more !!


EDIT : This was MattMatt responding to LostAtSea, not Malcolm


----------



## larry.gray

Madman1 said:


> Dr. Laura would get banned on TAM! :rofl:
> 
> 
> The idiot callers never learn...
> 1st caller, Hi Dr laura my Boy Friend wont spend time with me.
> Dr Laura- Why not sweety?
> 1st caller- He says his wife wont let him out of the house.
> Dr laura-Thats what you get for being such a slytt, find a single man next time.
> 
> 2nd caller, Hi Dr Laura my Boy Friend wont spend time with me...
> .
> and on and on it goes. :scratchhead: :rofl:


Yeah, that's a pretty accurate assessment of it the one time I listened a decade ago.

I made the comment that the content of the show is:

"Hi, I'm an immoral idiot, could you please abuse me?"

"Yep, you're an idiot, don't do that."


----------



## Malcolm38

We've talked a lot the past couple of days. 

As I stated on her thread.....I think she has a problem. I'll help her as I can, as the mother of my children. 

But I have to be honest myself about something. I just don't feel like I love her anymore. Frankly, the bonds of marriage have been broken. If I were to risk getting hurt in a relationship again I'd rather it be with someone I have no negative history with.


----------



## Malaise

Malcolm38 said:


> We've talked a lot the past couple of days.
> 
> As I stated on her thread.....I think she has a problem. I'll help her as I can, as the mother of my children.
> 
> But I have to be honest myself about something. I just don't feel like I love her anymore. Frankly, the bonds of marriage have been broken. If I were to risk getting hurt in a relationship again I'd rather it be with someone I have no negative history with.


Honestly, I wouldn't either.

And I'd rather take a shot with the unknown quantity than with the woman I know who cheated so often.

The trust is gone.


----------



## Summer4744

Malcolm38 said:


> We've talked a lot the past couple of days.
> 
> As I stated on her thread.....I think she has a problem. I'll help her as I can, as the mother of my children.
> 
> But I have to be honest myself about something. I just don't feel like I love her anymore. Frankly, the bonds of marriage have been broken. If I were to risk getting hurt in a relationship again I'd rather it be with someone I have no negative history with.


Malcom. Did you tell your WW this? How did she react?


----------



## foolme2x

Malcolm38 said:


> As I stated on her thread.....I think she has a problem. I'll help her as I can, as the mother of my children.
> 
> But I have to be honest myself about something. I just don't feel like I love her anymore. Frankly, the bonds of marriage have been broken. If I were to risk getting hurt in a relationship again I'd rather it be with someone I have no negative history with.


When she was having the earlier affairs, were you going through down times in your marriage? Or did she do such a good job of compartmentalizing that you thought everything was fine?


----------



## jim123

Malcolm38 said:


> We've talked a lot the past couple of days.
> 
> As I stated on her thread.....I think she has a problem. I'll help her as I can, as the mother of my children.
> 
> But I have to be honest myself about something. I just don't feel like I love her anymore. Frankly, the bonds of marriage have been broken. If I were to risk getting hurt in a relationship again I'd rather it be with someone I have no negative history with.


I hope that you find your peace. At least trying to move on will help you decide. Maybe LAS will find that she does love you and maybe you will find you love her.

My guess is once you see what is available to you, you will wonder why you put up with this.

Work on putting your life together, It will all fall into place.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Malcolm38 said:


> We've talked a lot the past couple of days.
> 
> As I stated on her thread.....I think she has a problem. I'll help her as I can, as the mother of my children.
> 
> But I have to be honest myself about something. I just don't feel like I love her anymore. Frankly, the bonds of marriage have been broken. If I were to risk getting hurt in a relationship again I'd rather it be with someone I have no negative history with.


She definitly needs help, lots of it. I do hope she that she get's it.

Malcolm, I(and I'm sure many of us) were pretty sure the damage was just too great for any attempt at R. I feel so bad, for both of you. I know you're making the right decision. Lost At Sea has stated that she will work on herself and she hopes that some day she'll have another chance with you. If the latter were ever a possibility, I know it would be years from now. I hope she continues to work on herself regardless if there's ever a chance of you two getting back togather. I worry that, in time, if she realizes that you'll never get back together, she'll start giving up. This has been a tough road for you to travel my friend, I wish all the best. Take care.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Malcolm38 said:


> I just don't feel like I love her anymore. Frankly, the bonds of marriage have been broken. If I were to risk getting hurt in a relationship again I'd rather it be with someone I have no negative history with.


This is when I walked away from my ex-fiance. I felt the same way and when I realized that I had doubts, I called it off.


Sorry.


----------



## Lost at sea

I know his love for me isnt there right now, and i dont blame him. I hope i can regain it one day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The Middleman

Malcolm38 said:


> We've talked a lot the past couple of days.
> 
> As I stated on her thread.....I think she has a problem. I'll help her as I can, as the mother of my children.
> 
> But I have to be honest myself about something. I just don't feel like I love her anymore. Frankly, the bonds of marriage have been broken. If I were to risk getting hurt in a relationship again I'd rather it be with someone I have no negative history with.


I wouldn't reconcile under any circumstances after what she did to you. You have done everything right so far. Stay the course and maintain your self respect. I wish you well.


----------



## Malaise

Lost at sea said:


> I know his love for me isnt there right now, and i dont blame him. I hope i can regain it one day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lost, I'm not being mean here.

You hoping that he'll regain the love he used to have sounds delusional.

You've been more honest on your own thread and that's good.

You've opened up to Malcom, and to us.

But, I think that you need to be more honest with yourself. You have to come to grips with the chilling idea that Malcom is done.

Denial is powerful. No one wants to admit that something is over, whether is't a marriage or a life. We all want to hang on and hope that the inevitable won't happen. BTDT.

But there is freedom in letting go. It's not easy. Or fun. But you have to first look at what you've done as Malcom sees it and I don't think you have done so yet.

You lack empathy for his pain, you can't picture his anguish as he lived through what you did, repeatedly.

Lacking empathy you don't see how difficult, or impossible, it would be for him to love and trust you again.

It sounds to me that Mal is just beaten down and worn out from the choices that you made.

And he just wants to end it.

You need to understand that. Try to be a better person for your kids and yourself. That's all that you can control now.


----------



## foolme2x

Lost at sea said:


> I know his love for me isnt there right now, and i dont blame him. I hope i can regain it one day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need to change your perspective. You have no hope of regaining your husband's love without regaining his respect first, and that may be impossible at this point. But if you work on what's broken in you, then hopefully you can come to respect yourself. Then maybe you will be capable of a real relationship, not one built on lies.


----------



## Acabado

foolme2x said:


> You need to change your perspective. You have no hope of regaining your husband's love without regaining his respect first, and that may be impossible at this point. But if you work on what's broken in you, then hopefully you can come to respect yourself. Then maybe you will be capable of a real relationship, not one built on lies.


Worth quoting


----------



## Malaise

Mal

It's April 1st.

Is she gone?


----------



## F-102

It is now April 2nd. Is she still in the house?


----------



## Lost at sea

Hi all. Yes i have moved to an apartment near our home. 

I have been home the last few nights. Hubby had a medical issue and was in the hospital shortly. His blood sugar spiked to 800 so that watch him for a while. I took him in around midnight. He willbe okay but i am a little shook up . I dont think he is taking care of his health with the stress i gave him as well as the job he has. I have insisted on staying with him until i know his numbers are under control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

How nice of you to care for him.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: 6 months after learning of affair I asked her to leave without me*



keko said:


> How nice of you to care for him.


That's not nice at all. We may not like what she's done, heck she doesn't like what she's done, but we can have a little class here right? You don't think Malcolm appreciates her care?


----------



## keko

bfree said:


> That's not nice at all. We may not like what she's done, heck she doesn't like what she's done, but we can have a little class here right? You don't think Malcolm appreciates her care?


Re-read my post. It doesn't get any nicer then that.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

The reality is, words are just words. Love is shown with actions. It's a verb, not a noun. Lostatsea does not love Malcolm. That much is certain. She can say it all she wants, but her words mean exactly zero. Her actions prove that she loves only herself. If she still had her job, she'd be nowhere in sight. Malcolm has lost the remainder of his love for her and he'll be much better off once he completely moves on.

I agree with him. If you're going to risk your happiness on a woman again, why take that risk with someone who has proven she doesn't love you. Someone who has proven she doesn't respect you. Someone with a propensity to cheat, who will almost certainly cheat again when the opportunity strikes. I mean really, why bother? There are lots of good women out there in the world.


----------



## JCD

You know what? She moved when asked.

When he had to go to the hospital, she was there. I've been stuck in a hospital and I can't tell you how much it meant to me when a couple of guys I was casual friends with showed up.

Please do NOT use this as a manipulation tool, Lost. I think it very classy that you ARE caring for him, but please don't ruin it. Heretofore, you've taken away a lot of his choices with your actions.

Let him make some now. BE classy. ACT classy.

Maybe even Keko can pick up a few tips


----------



## Broken at 20

Read through most of the thread. 

LaS, you don't need me to tell you that you have some big personality disorder. 
You should be able to see that for yourself. 
Or at least know you have one, and choose to ignore it and pretend like it doesn't exist. 

Now, I am glad you took care of Malcolm when he needed it. 

But what I don't like, is this part here:


> I have insisted on staying with him until i know his numbers are under control.


I don't think you get to insist anything. 
Let me rephrase that: 
You SHOULDN'T get to insist on anything. 

Because what you insisted on in the past shows your true colors. 
You didn't want to give up your privacy to Malcolm, but wanted to continue the affair. You didn't want to lose the OM but keep him as a friend. You even answered a phone call from him when Malcolm was in the other room!
Normally, I would like to think you are a concerned wife wanting to heal her hurt husband. 
Instead, I honestly think you are trying to think of a way to manipulate Malcolm so he feels like he needs you around because his health is going down hill. 

If Malcolm wants you out of the house, you should LEAVE the house.
If he wants you home to call 9-1-1 for him, THEN you get to stay. 

You don't get to insist "Well, yea, I just moved out. But your health is bad, so I am not leaving."

Worried he can't dial 9-1-1? That is a legitimate concern. But we all have cell phones, and the daughters are living with him. They know how to call 9-1-1. And if you need to, tell them "Daddy is having some heart problems, beyond the ones that mommy caused. If Daddy starts feeling bad, make sure to call 9-1-1."
The responders are trained to deal with children, and are able to trace calls. If he needs EMS, he will get it. 
I think you are probably adding to his health issues overall.


----------



## keko

JCD said:


> You know what? She moved when asked.
> 
> When he had to go to the hospital, she was there. I've been stuck in a hospital and I can't tell you how much it meant to me when a couple of guys I was casual friends with showed up.
> 
> Please do NOT use this as a manipulation tool, Lost. I think it very classy that you ARE caring for him, but please don't ruin it. Heretofore, you've taken away a lot of his choices with your actions.
> 
> Let him make some now. BE classy. ACT classy.
> 
> Maybe even Keko can pick up a few tips


Agreed. LAS, just don't make out with the Dr or screw a male nurse. Those are not being classy.


----------



## old timer

"let he without sin cast the first stone". 


.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars

Lost at sea

Please convey my (and all of our) best wishes for a speedy recovery to malclom. Peace to you and your girls.


----------



## Wazza

And look after those kids extra hard right now. Be strong.


----------



## Malcolm38

Feeling a bit better today. 

I'm a Diabetic, and sometimes I don't handle my medication like I should. I forgot to take my insulin in the morning, and things got out of hand. I worked my normal schedule, and felt worse and worse. I tried to "gut it out", and that was stupid. My WW was over with the kids when I got home. After an hour or so I asked her for help, because I almost felt drunk, even though I don't drink. 

She took me to the Emergency room and they kept me for a few hours while my #'s got back under control. 

She was crying and asking me why I allowed this to happen. It certainly wasn't my idea! But I take responsibility for being very dumb with my health. 

I'm still having some trouble keeping my levels at a decent level, as they seem to be either crashing or through the roof. I've asked her to stay in the guest room mainly because I want to make sure the girls are taken care of tonight. I'm still feeling a little under the weather. 

We have moved her into an apartment nearby and she was actually in there on March 28th. 

She has some things she needs to be able to work on to have a better future. 

We've talked about a lot of things the last few days while moving her out. I think she does love me. But as mentioned here previously, I think it is a fatherly love she feels for me. I'm honestly not sure she is capable of romantic love. Maybe she is, but I don't think she has felt that yet for anyone. 

I'm still thinking that divorce is the path that needs to be taken for our relationship. But I would prefer that we are able to co-parent together as well as we possibly can. And honestly, I would like to see her get the help she needs as a person.


----------



## walkonmars

Mal your insight is excellent. You know who you are and how things are. Accepting reality puts you in good position to make wise decisions.

Keep insisting that lost at sea gets the help she needs. It's not just a moral issue with her it's a deeply flawed character. She may never have the joy of a meaningful loving relationship, but she will always be your girl's mother.

Diabetes is a silent killer so keep an eye on your diet and get lots of exercise. Play a little golf and WALK the course. It's good for stress relief and a good way to build maintain character.

Glad you're back!


----------



## MattMatt

Malcolm38 said:


> Feeling a bit better today.
> 
> I'm a Diabetic, and sometimes I don't handle my medication like I should. I forgot to take my insulin in the morning, and things got out of hand. I worked my normal schedule, and felt worse and worse. I tried to "gut it out", and that was stupid. My WW was over with the kids when I got home. After an hour or so I asked her for help, because I almost felt drunk, even though I don't drink.
> 
> She took me to the Emergency room and they kept me for a few hours while my #'s got back under control.
> 
> She was crying and asking me why I allowed this to happen. It certainly wasn't my idea! But I take responsibility for being very dumb with my health.
> 
> I'm still having some trouble keeping my levels at a decent level, as they seem to be either crashing or through the roof. I've asked her to stay in the guest room mainly because I want to make sure the girls are taken care of tonight. I'm still feeling a little under the weather.
> 
> We have moved her into an apartment nearby and she was actually in there on March 28th.
> 
> She has some things she needs to be able to work on to have a better future.
> 
> We've talked about a lot of things the last few days while moving her out. I think she does love me. But as mentioned here previously, I think it is a fatherly love she feels for me. I'm honestly not sure she is capable of romantic love. Maybe she is, but I don't think she has felt that yet for anyone.
> 
> I'm still thinking that divorce is the path that needs to be taken for our relationship. But I would prefer that we are able to co-parent together as well as we possibly can. And honestly, I would like to see her get the help she needs as a person.


Are you Type 1 or, like me, Type 2, Malcolm?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Malcolm, I hope your medical recovery is swift and smooth. I also have to take medications for blood sugar levels(amongst other things). With what you've been going through with your marriage it's not surpising that you didn't stay on top of the diabetes. 800... It's no surprise that you had to go to the ER. I was in the high 300's and I ended up in the hospital for a week. Please take care.

Lost, I don't agree with people swinging the 2X4s right now, regardless of what you wrote, or meant. in your last post. Try not to let it bother you. I have my own opinion of what has happend up to this point and of you. I however don't think this the front burner issue at the moment. I think some here are worried that given Malcolm's current health issue, that you'll somehow swoop right back in and snow Malcolm into not divorcing. Even if they are right, this is not the time for snide comments. We should formost want to hear that Malcolm is ok, before the subject of you marriage gets top billing on here once again. Take care.


----------



## MattMatt

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Malcolm, I hope your medical recovery is swift and smooth. I also have to take medications for blood sugar levels(amongst other things). With what you've been going through with your marriage it's not surpising that you didn't stay on top of the diabetes. 800... It's no surprise that you had to go to the ER. I was in the high 300's and I ended up in the hospital for a week. Please take care.
> 
> Lost, I don't agree with people swinging the 2X4s right now, regardless of what you wrote, or meant. in your last post. Try not to let it bother you. I have my own opinion of what has happend up to this point and of you. I however don't think this the front burner issue at the moment. I think some here are worried that given Malcolm's current health issue, that you'll somehow swoop right back in and snow Malcolm into not divorcing. Even if they are right, this is not the time for snide comments. We should formost want to hear that Malcolm is ok, before the subject of you marriage gets top billing on here once again. Take care.


Lost at Sea knows she did wrong, but she still loves Malcolm.

I wonder how some people would have reacted had Lost at Sea NOT rushed to help Malcolm with his Diabetic Disaster? "Typical wayward! She doesn't care, or she'd have been there to help him, etc., etc., etc."


----------



## BjornFree

I'm diabetic as well. If its Type 2, exercise is the only way you can get it under control.


----------



## Acabado

Take care of this Malcolm. Don't be lazy with you health. If not for you for your loved ones. All of them.


----------



## MattMatt

BjornFree said:


> I'm diabetic as well. If its Type 2, exercise is the only way you can get it under control.


Really? I find beer works for me!

Sorry! Did I say beer? 

I meant to say 'a strict control of my carbohydrate intake, regular exercise and medication, whilst *dreaming* about beer.'

All jokes to one side, Malcolm, look after your heath as it is the only one you have!:smthumbup:


----------



## turnera

And your kids need you!

Are you exercising? Didn't you say you were going to the gym now?


----------



## MattMatt

turnera said:


> And your kids need you!
> 
> Are you exercising? Didn't you say you were going to the gym now?


Walking is good. I do between 6 to 8 miles a day. It's made a big improvement in my fitness.


----------



## walkonmars

MattMatt said:


> Walking is good. I do between 6 to 8 miles a day. It's made a big improvement in my fitness.


That's the ticket. I use an app that is super handy at giving walking speed, location, cumulative distances etc. Very motivating.

Try it mal start with a good pair of shoes, it's a must. With spring weather coming on fast you'll get to walking and lovin it. (well, you know)


----------



## Malcolm38

Thanks for all the well wishes and advise. I do appreciate the people I've met in this corner of the Cyber universe. 

I am a Type 1 Diabetic. So I'm insulin dependent no matter what I do. But I absolutely agree though that exercise is a great way to lessen the need for as much insulin and to regulate sugar levels. I haven't worked out the past 2 weeks and have let stress get to me. Obviously I have to do a better job of managing things.


----------



## JCD

Malcom. Allow me, as a wayward, explain a little something to you.

Now, you seem intent on divorce and that's a fine choice. However, I think you are missing a few pieces of information.

1) Yes, she is probably somewhat emotionally disconnected with you. I felt the same thing with my idiotic choices.

2) She probably isn't feeling romantic about you. Ditto.

3) *Those feelings come back.*

At this point, it's important that she WANTS to want you and is seeking the help possible.

I think you are on track here. Let her stay at the apartment. Get your head on straight. Let her find the help she needs. Considering her track record, noone can blame you for charging full speed in the divorce.

In two months, have some serious conversations with her.

You can divorce her

You can stop the divorce at the last minute.

You can divorce her, and see that she's made HUGE progress and decide she's the woman you thought she was. Parts of that woman was there. Just there was some _terra incognita_ in her psychological territory which...um...well, there be dragons.

I do not encourage this, but as a former wayward, I appreciate the dedication, grace and love that my wife is showing me by offering me another chance. I *have* to believe I can change. So I am hoping she can too.

It's your choice and my problems and fears aren't your problem. Just venting and hoping.


----------



## Wazza

JCD said:


> Malcom. Allow me, as a wayward, explain a little something to you.
> 
> Now, you seem intent on divorce and that's a fine choice. However, I think you are missing a few pieces of information.
> 
> 1) Yes, she is probably somewhat emotionally disconnected with you. I felt the same thing with my idiotic choices.
> 
> 2) She probably isn't feeling romantic about you. Ditto.
> 
> 3) *Those feelings come back.*
> 
> At this point, it's important that she WANTS to want you and is seeking the help possible.
> 
> I think you are on track here. Let her stay at the apartment. Get your head on straight. Let her find the help she needs. Considering her track record, noone can blame you for charging full speed in the divorce.
> 
> In two months, have some serious conversations with her.
> 
> You can divorce her
> 
> You can stop the divorce at the last minute.
> 
> You can divorce her, and see that she's made HUGE progress and decide she's the woman you thought she was. Parts of that woman was there. Just there was some _terra incognita_ in her psychological territory which...um...well, there be dragons.
> 
> I do not encourage this, but as a former wayward, I appreciate the dedication, grace and love that my wife is showing me by offering me another chance. I *have* to believe I can change. So I am hoping she can too.
> 
> It's your choice and my problems and fears aren't your problem. Just venting and hoping.


JCD I am certain that Lost would appreciate another chance, but the ball is very much in Malcolm's court. If he remains at peace with his decision I think all of us should let it be.


----------



## Malaise

Wazza said:


> JCD I am certain that Lost would appreciate another chance, but the ball is very much in Malcolm's court. If he remains at peace with his decision I think all of us should let it be.


The problem, as I see it and I could be way off base here, is even if her feelings for him do come back, will he ever be able to trust her again?

She may have the romantic love back at some point but will Mal ever have the trust back?

Without that trust, who care how she feels?


----------



## JCD

Wazza said:


> JCD I am certain that Lost would appreciate another chance, but the ball is very much in Malcolm's court. If he remains at peace with his decision I think all of us should let it be.





Malaise said:


> The problem, as I see it and I could be way off base here, is even if her feelings for him do come back, will he ever be able to trust her again?
> 
> She may have the romantic love back at some point but will Mal ever have the trust back?
> 
> Without that trust, who care how she feels?


At 18, I was a horrible credit risk. I knew nothing about ATM cards, overdrafts, savings etc.

A few PAINFUL lessons later, and I am a somewhat different person.

He should be at peace and I am not trying to goad him. I am correcting misapprehensions he has: to wit that romantic feelings can never be recovered. Do YOU, Wazza, have romantic feelings for Mrs. W? Does she have them for you? What happened?

So let him get his divorce. But he should do it fully informed that what he thinks is incontrovertiable...isn't.


----------



## Wazza

JCD said:


> At 18, I was a horrible credit risk. I knew nothing about ATM cards, overdrafts, savings etc.
> 
> A few PAINFUL lessons later, and I am a somewhat different person.
> 
> He should be at peace and I am not trying to goad him. I am correcting misapprehensions he has: to wit that romantic feelings can never be recovered. Do YOU, Wazza, have romantic feelings for Mrs. W? Does she have them for you? What happened?
> 
> So let him get his divorce. But he should do it fully informed that what he thinks is incontrovertiable...isn't.


Mrs Wazza was a different situation, which doesn't mean a reconciliation couldn't happen with Lost, just that it would be harder than I had in some respects. And if you think I am dodging the question, you are right.

If Malcolm wants to talk reconciliation I will. Not going to clutter his thread with it otherwise.

If Lost wants support I can give, I will give it. I am very glad she stuck around. That support would extend to trying to help if Malcolm takes her back, but not pushing him to do so.

To me the process Malcolm went through in making his decision was flawless. I am sure he will have considered the things you and I might say.

ETA : yes romantic feelings can be recovered, but I don't know how. For me it happened in spite of anything I did maybe, not because of it, though Mrs W paid a LONG penance for her affair.


----------



## jim123

Glad to hear you are better. I am surprised by your resolve. Good for you.


----------



## Malcolm38

I'm bitter today. 

I've made mistakes in my life and in my marriage. We all have. But I don't deserve what I've gone through for the past year. 

Not trying to make myself sound like a Man of the Year candidate, but I have always worked very hard, paid all of the bills and spent as much time as possible with my wife. 

Maybe that was too available? For example, when I took up playing in a basketball league at a local gym a year ago it was like WW3. Honestly, it was from 7-9 one night a week and after 3 months of dealing with the boo boo face from my wife I just quit. Maybe that's the problem in all of this? Should I have been more bold about putting my needs first more often? I like playing basketball damn it! LOL I know how juvenile that sounds, but it's the truth. 

I've always been the "good" guy. For what? 

I've attended trade shows for my industry 2-3 times a year for a couple of days in various cities in the US. Some of my colleagues would booze up and hit the pick up bars, even if they were married. I would go back to my hotel immediately after the show and order room service and read a book. Every single time. Do you know what an idiot I feel like now?

I do actually enjoy sex too! I do find women attractive. I've *always *maintained a hard line in the sand in terms of never giving off any sort of "available" vibe. My nickname with some of my staff is "Disney" because I only act in ways that are "PG". 

I only really realize now that I shouldn't have bothered. I guess I just thought the marital vows actually meant something. 

I should have just had some fun on the side and said "Oh, sorry. I just forgot how much I love you or something I guess. My bad". 

What do I really want to do right now? Honestly? Find a bad girl and have a fling. But only with a single girl. I wouldn't do to anyone what these bastards did without any regard to me.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Malcolm38 said:


> I'm bitter today.
> 
> I've made mistakes in my life and in my marriage. We all have. But I don't deserve what I've gone through for the past year.
> 
> Not trying to make myself sound like a Man of the Year candidate, but I have always worked very hard, paid all of the bills and spent as much time as possible with my wife.
> 
> Maybe that was too available? For example, when I took up playing in a basketball league at a local gym a year ago it was like WW3. Honestly, it was from 7-9 one night a week and after 3 months of dealing with the boo boo face from my wife I just quit. Maybe that's the problem in all of this? Should I have been more bold about putting my needs first more often? I like playing basketball damn it! LOL I know how juvenile that sounds, but it's the truth.


Actually, you are probably right. You should have done that. Taking time for yourself is healthy. 



> I've always been the "good" guy. For what?
> 
> I've attended trade shows for my industry 2-3 times a year for a couple of days in various cities in the US. Some of my colleagues would booze up and hit the pick up bars, even if they were married. I would go back to my hotel immediately after the show and order room service and read a book. Every single time. Do you know what an idiot I feel like now?
> 
> I do actually enjoy sex too! I do find women attractive. I've *always *maintained a hard line in the sand in terms of never giving off any sort of "available" vibe. My nickname with some of my staff is "Disney" because I only act in ways that are "PG".
> 
> I only really realize now that I shouldn't have bothered. I guess I just thought the marital vows actually meant something.
> 
> I should have just had some fun on the side and said "Oh, sorry. I just forgot how much I love you or something I guess. My bad".
> 
> What do I really want to do right now? Honestly? Find a bad girl and have a fling. But only with a single girl. I wouldn't do to anyone what these bastards did without any regard to me.


But you would have lost yourself in the process. Don't let her behavior cause you to betray yourself and your principles. Act in the way that is consistent with the man that you are and want to be.

Yes. you feel like an idiot. I get that. But that is not your fault. Loving, trusting and be loyal to your wife are good things. That she did not value it does not make them bad. 

Remember, your value is based on you and your self respect, not on her and her actions.


----------



## happyman64

Welcome to the anger stage Malcolm from one diabetic to the other.

Many of us will know where you are coming from.

You feel angered about how good you have been all these years and what did it get you?

A broken marriage? Yup.
A wayward wife? Yup
Alone? Yup.

And you know what you can try the fling with a single girl but it will only get you a short reprieve from these feelings you have now.

You need to exercise. Get your health under control and be the best dad you can be.

Those should be your priorities.

And once you are feeling better, your and your wife have a new healthy coparenting relationship under control then figure out what you need to do in order to heal.

Time is on your side Malcolm.

Use it.

HM64


----------



## SaltInWound

Malcolm, please don't feel like an idiot for being the kind of husband I wish I was married to.


----------



## walkonmars

Don't get down on yourself for the honorable way you have conducted your life. Not at all!

I spend about 90 nights a yr in hotels. After work I too am back in my room watching a movie and on TAM or Huffpost, etc. Clear conscience just like you. Others are out and about with lots of opportunities. So what?

Yeah, you were cheated on, lied to, disrespected, and taken advantage of. Would you rather be in her position right now? Do you think she feels like a winner? Do you think she thinks highly of herself? 

Your daughters love you both, but who do you think they respect more? You can find yourself a girlfriend, there's tons. Be careful to not entangle yourself. You're young with a good career and a good moral code. That puts you in the top "great catch" category. 

Don't dwell too much on having been in a poor marriage. You did get some benefit out of that relationship. Be the guy you've always been the experience you've had didn't destroy you. You're a survivor!


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I sympathize with you Malcolm. When you know that at every turn, you were making the right choices and doing all the things that really mattered in the marriage and then you get betrayed in the worst ways that you could of ever imagine.

It wasn't fair and it isn't right, but she did it it to you anyway, over and over again. I know exactly what you are talking about, because I've been there and there ain't no place lower to be.

You'll have another chance. In some time, with someone else, but this isn't the end for you. When I fell in love for the first time a year after my ex ran my heart through the garbage disposal, I couldn't believe how distant what she had done to me became. One door closes, another door opens.


----------



## sandc

Malcolm38 said:


> I've always been the "good" guy. For what?


Because that is who you are and it's a good thing.



Malcolm38 said:


> Do you know what an idiot I feel like now?


You feel like an idiot for acting honorable? Really??



Malcolm38 said:


> I only really realize now that I shouldn't have bothered. I guess I just thought the marital vows actually meant something.
> 
> I should have just had some fun on the side and said "Oh, sorry. I just forgot how much I love you or something I guess. My bad".


And be like her? Yeah, way to go! Lower yourself and match her morals. You're kicking yourself for keeping your word and acting honorable? Get off it! You did the right things while she chose to act in an evil manner.




Malcolm38 said:


> What do I really want to do right now? Honestly? Find a bad girl and have a fling. But only with a single girl. I wouldn't do to anyone what these bastards did without any regard to me.


Yeah, you could but you'd still feel like sh!t. Do what you feel you need to do but do it with the same honor and morality you have shown thus far. Whatever you do, be able to walk out of this knowing that you acted honorably.


----------



## turnera

It's funny because playing in a basketball league is the exact setting I use when I tell Nice Guys an example of when you should stand up for yourself no matter how much your wife plays the mistreated wife card. I got it from the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.S., an awesome book from BetterMen Coaching: We Make Good Men Bettter | Coach Los Angeles | life coach for men.


----------



## Malaise

Malcolm38 said:


> I'm bitter today.
> 
> I've made mistakes in my life and in my marriage. We all have. But I don't deserve what I've gone through for the past year.
> 
> Not trying to make myself sound like a Man of the Year candidate, but I have always worked very hard, paid all of the bills and spent as much time as possible with my wife.
> 
> Maybe that was too available? For example, when I took up playing in a basketball league at a local gym a year ago it was like WW3. Honestly, it was from 7-9 one night a week and after 3 months of dealing with the boo boo face from my wife I just quit. Maybe that's the problem in all of this? Should I have been more bold about putting my needs first more often? I like playing basketball damn it! LOL I know how juvenile that sounds, but it's the truth.
> 
> I've always been the "good" guy. For what?
> 
> I've attended trade shows for my industry 2-3 times a year for a couple of days in various cities in the US. Some of my colleagues would booze up and hit the pick up bars, even if they were married. I would go back to my hotel immediately after the show and order room service and read a book. Every single time. Do you know what an idiot I feel like now?
> 
> I do actually enjoy sex too! I do find women attractive. I've *always *maintained a hard line in the sand in terms of never giving off any sort of "available" vibe. My nickname with some of my staff is "Disney" because I only act in ways that are "PG".
> 
> I only really realize now that I shouldn't have bothered. I guess I just thought the marital vows actually meant something.
> 
> I should have just had some fun on the side and said "Oh, sorry. I just forgot how much I love you or something I guess. My bad".
> 
> What do I really want to do right now? Honestly? Find a bad girl and have a fling. But only with a single girl. I wouldn't do to anyone what these bastards did without any regard to me.


Except for the cheating wife, I was you.

*Maybe that's the problem in all of this? Should I have been more bold about putting my needs first more often? I like playing basketball damn it! LOL I know how juvenile that sounds, but it's the truth. *


I can look back at myself and regret not prioritizing me more often but I'll never regret the fact that I didn't cheat when I could have easily.

Don't beat yourself up for being a good guy, I've done that and it gets you nowhere fast.


----------



## SaltInWound

Add me to the list of BS who had all the opportunity in the world to cheat, but did not. I was a Navy wife the last 15 years of his career. He would have never found out. Since retirement, I have had plenty of opportunities, but never acted on them. 

I hold my head high. He shamefully holds his head in his hands, still unable to speak to our grown son after 5 months. I'd rather be me.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Malcolm38 said:


> I only really realize now that I shouldn't have bothered. I guess I just thought the marital vows actually meant something.
> 
> I should have just had some fun on the side and said "Oh, sorry. I just forgot how much I love you or something I guess. My bad".


Well, whether she deserved it or not you still have to maintain your dignity if only for yourself. In future relationships you can at least say you never cheated on your spouse. Not only that, when you look in a mirror you are not ashamed of what you are looking at (unlike the stbxw).

Hearing someone cheated while married regardless of the reason is always a red flag.


----------



## MattMatt

Malcolm38 said:


> I'm bitter today.
> 
> I've made mistakes in my life and in my marriage. We all have. But I don't deserve what I've gone through for the past year.
> 
> Not trying to make myself sound like a Man of the Year candidate, but I have always worked very hard, paid all of the bills and spent as much time as possible with my wife.
> 
> Maybe that was too available? For example, when I took up playing in a basketball league at a local gym a year ago it was like WW3. Honestly, it was from 7-9 one night a week and after 3 months of dealing with the boo boo face from my wife I just quit. Maybe that's the problem in all of this? Should I have been more bold about putting my needs first more often? I like playing basketball damn it! LOL I know how juvenile that sounds, but it's the truth.
> 
> I've always been the "good" guy. For what?
> 
> I've attended trade shows for my industry 2-3 times a year for a couple of days in various cities in the US. Some of my colleagues would booze up and hit the pick up bars, even if they were married. I would go back to my hotel immediately after the show and order room service and read a book. Every single time. *Do you know what an idiot I feel like now?*
> 
> I do actually enjoy sex too! I do find women attractive. I've *always *maintained a hard line in the sand in terms of never giving off any sort of "available" vibe. My nickname with some of my staff is "Disney" because I only act in ways that are "PG".
> 
> I only really realize now that I shouldn't have bothered. I guess I just thought the marital vows actually meant something.
> 
> I should have just had some fun on the side and said "Oh, sorry. I just forgot how much I love you or something I guess. My bad".
> 
> What do I really want to do right now? Honestly? Find a bad girl and have a fling. But only with a single girl. I wouldn't do to anyone what these bastards did without any regard to me.


*
You'll be feeling like the 'idiot' who did not get a nasty case of galloping c**k rot, then?!:smthumbup:*


----------



## Wazza

Malcolm38 said:


> I'm bitter today.
> 
> I've made mistakes in my life and in my marriage. We all have. But I don't deserve what I've gone through for the past year.
> 
> Not trying to make myself sound like a Man of the Year candidate, but I have always worked very hard, paid all of the bills and spent as much time as possible with my wife.
> 
> Maybe that was too available? For example, when I took up playing in a basketball league at a local gym a year ago it was like WW3. Honestly, it was from 7-9 one night a week and after 3 months of dealing with the boo boo face from my wife I just quit. Maybe that's the problem in all of this? Should I have been more bold about putting my needs first more often? I like playing basketball damn it! LOL I know how juvenile that sounds, but it's the truth.
> 
> I've always been the "good" guy. For what?
> 
> I've attended trade shows for my industry 2-3 times a year for a couple of days in various cities in the US. Some of my colleagues would booze up and hit the pick up bars, even if they were married. I would go back to my hotel immediately after the show and order room service and read a book. Every single time. Do you know what an idiot I feel like now?
> 
> I do actually enjoy sex too! I do find women attractive. I've *always *maintained a hard line in the sand in terms of never giving off any sort of "available" vibe. My nickname with some of my staff is "Disney" because I only act in ways that are "PG".
> 
> I only really realize now that I shouldn't have bothered. I guess I just thought the marital vows actually meant something.
> 
> I should have just had some fun on the side and said "Oh, sorry. I just forgot how much I love you or something I guess. My bad".
> 
> What do I really want to do right now? Honestly? Find a bad girl and have a fling. But only with a single girl. I wouldn't do to anyone what these bastards did without any regard to me.


Don't give in to bitterness, and don't compromise your standards just because you are at a low point.

But yes, "you" time is important. The biggest lesson I learned is to stand on my own feet and not seek worth from others. When you get to that point in your headspace a lot of good things follow.


----------



## MattMatt

Malcolm, I was going to say that I had attended many trade shows and never heard of that happening, but then I recalled one instance when a particularly well endowed colleague decided that she fancied someone on another trade stand (booths in the USA, I think they're called?). 

"He's gonna get it!" she said cheerfully to us.

One of our female colleagues said: "How are you going to do that?"

She jiggled her huge chest and said: "I'm gonna get me baps out and let 'im see 'em! He'll be putty in me 'ands!" 

And, indeed, she did and he was.

The poor lad never stood a chance.


----------



## Malcolm38

Wild and crazy month. 

Wife is living close to the house in an apartment. We see each other often and she is in our kid's life of course. 

I was doing the back and forth thing. She feels comfortable, so I was considering allowing her back into my life. We did go out on a date mid-month or so. We ended up having sex for the first time in 6-7 months. 

Then I got a call from my Mom some 20 days ago telling me she had to tell me something. My Dad had a tumor found in his right lung and he would have to undergo a number of tests to see were things are at. 

It's been good and bad. Nothing definitive, which may be a good sign in that it's not "completely obviously" cancer. And if it is cancer it may be early stage. 

Nevertheless, it's been a *serious *jolt. My Dad has been my best friend my whole life, and still is to this day. 

I'm not a psychologist, so I'm not 100% sure what has happened the last couple of weeks to me....but the status of my marriage has gone from a source of major thought and concern to very distant in my list of priorities. I apologize if that sounds very cold, but I'm just being honest. 

I don't know if it's good for me to be married to someone that was basically making me a cuckhold without even my knowing it. The definition of what is healthy is probably beyond me at this point. But the one thing I do know that my 100% concentration is on my children and my Parents right now. It would be different if I was with a woman who had valued me and was a loyal partner. But the reality is that wasn't the case. 

When I do have "free time" as such, I'm with my Dad. If my marriage ends up not being recaptured due to this, then so be it. 

I feel like this is a defining moment in my life, and I'm choosing to concentrate on a man who has been loyal and giving to me his whole life. Whatever course this whole medical journey takes us, it's woken me up to value the time I have with him. Hopefully another 10-20 years!!! But regardless, whatever time we do have I will value.


----------



## old timer

Malcolm, God be with you and your parents through this ordeal.

Here's a song for you:

Tim McGraw- Live Like You Were Dying [Lyrics] - YouTube

.


----------



## happyman64

Malcolm

Did you discuss your Dads health with your wife?


----------



## Ovid

Tell your wife about it. See if she wants to stand up and be your wife, or if she just gets out of the way. It's the trials in life that let you know if the person you're with is worth anything.


----------



## bandit.45

I'll pray for your dad Malcom. 

As for what's happening to you? You done gone and detached from her. Good man. 

Now sit back and watch what she does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thatbpguy

Malcom, I have read the entire thread (better than a book- longer, too). I also have carefully read your wife's posts.

As someone who was married as well to a serial betrayer I have to say I sense a sort of 'falseness' to her writings. Like someone trying to say all the right things but with an ulterior motive. Not overtly, but since betraying is an addiction, the addiction cannot be fed unless married and with the spouse. I guess what I mean is that she seems like an addict that cannot feed her habit and is out of sorts about it. I probably shouldn't say this at this time, but were I to offer an opinion, I'd say she has a 100% chance of reoffending if given the opportunity. If, in the long run, you two get back together I would quietly monitor her at every turn and leave no stone unturned. 

As to your father, how sad. I hope it turns out well. I lost my dad too early and have missed him my entire adult life. It's nice to be close to parents.

Anyway, what a compelling thread.


----------



## Woodchuck

I've attended trade shows for my industry 2-3 times a year for a couple of days in various cities in the US. Some of my colleagues would booze up and hit the pick up bars, even if they were married. I would go back to my hotel immediately after the show and order room service and read a book. Every single time. Do you know what an idiot I feel like now?


No Malcom you are not an idiot you are a decent man, husband, and father....That is the way you were supposed to act, and you met the standard....Well done....:smthumbup:


the woodchuck


----------



## doubletrouble

Malcolm, at the end of the day, all a man has is his honor and reputation. 

Yes, you have children and your father (God bless), but as a man, standing alone or lying in bed just before sleep, you need to be able to review each day and think "what did I do well? What could I do better? Did I make the world a little beetter today, somewhere, in some way?" 

At the end of the day, we have only ourselves and God to answer to. You seem to be doing well in a rough part of life. You can be proud.


----------



## Malcolm38

The journey continues....

I haven't been on here in quite a while. I hope everyone is doing well, or at least as well as is possible. 

My Dad had major surgery to remove the tumor in his chest in the late part of May. The diagnosis turned out to be Lymphoma as opposed to Lung Cancer as they found the tumor on the outside of the lung as opposed to in the lung. Obviously any cancer diagnosis is scary, but this was significantly better news than I was expecting. 

It's a "mild" or more accurately "slow" form of Lymphoma so the surgery actually seems to be the cure for the time being. There is no further trace of cancer at this time. Obviously there will be multiple reviews/tests down the line. 

Everything over the past 16 months just took a toll on me mentally, and I really don't have anything left to give to a marriage that unfortunately feels like it was a sham. I am certainly grateful for the children that we have, but in terms of the overall "connection" that I hoped we shared, I think of that as an illusion.

At this point I prefer to start over, and have filed officially for divorce. It seems, knock on wood, that it will be as "easy" as is possible in that she isn't fighting me and we have agreed to terms. 

We both agree that I'm the more suitable parent at this time, as she works on herself and the issues she has in her life. Obviously she will always be welcome to be a major factor in my daughters lives. So the custody agreement we've reached is that I'm primary and she will have unlimited visitation. 

We will be selling our house and most of the assets will be split 60/40 in her favor. I've been fortunate enough that I've had a major promotion at my place of employment and although money will always be an issue, it's not an emergency. So since she is being very generous (??) in not fighting me for custody I'm choosing not going to get into a fight over the money. 

Honestly, all I want is my freedom at this point. I love her, but I don't trust her at all, and even after a year of truly believing she isn't doing anything behind my back, I still am just too broken by her betrayal(s) to be able to trust her again.

Of course at this point, she is free to date as many people as she wants. My only regard at this point is that they aren't introduced to my daughter's lives until she is serious about someone. But that is all just theory right now. Who knows how everything will play out. 

It's not how I anticipated my life would be entering my 40's. But life will toss you things that you don't expect, and the only thing I think we can do is to adjust as best as possible. 

If any of this sounds a little distant and clinical, it's only because I've had plenty of time to come to terms with things. It obviously isn't that easy to pull the plug on a relationship that is as long as the one we've had. It feels at times still completely raw and painful. But I find if I just keep moving and stay busy every day is a little less painful.


----------



## verpin zal

Malcolm38 said:


> The journey continues....
> 
> I haven't been on here in quite a while. I hope everyone is doing well, or at least as well as is possible.
> 
> My Dad had major surgery to remove the tumor in his chest in the late part of May. The diagnosis turned out to be Lymphoma as opposed to Lung Cancer as they found the tumor on the outside of the lung as opposed to in the lung. Obviously any cancer diagnosis is scary, but this was significantly better news than I was expecting.
> 
> It's a "mild" or more accurately "slow" form of Lymphoma so the surgery actually seems to be the cure for the time being. There is no further trace of cancer at this time. Obviously there will be multiple reviews/tests down the line.
> 
> Everything over the past 16 months just took a toll on me mentally, and I really don't have anything left to give to a marriage that unfortunately feels like it was a sham. I am certainly grateful for the children that we have, but in terms of the overall "connection" that I hoped we shared, I think of that as an illusion.
> 
> At this point I prefer to start over, and have filed officially for divorce. It seems, *knock on wood*, that it will be as "easy" as is possible in that she isn't fighting me and we have agreed to terms.
> 
> We both agree that I'm the more suitable parent at this time, as she works on herself and the issues she has in her life. Obviously she will always be welcome to be a major factor in my daughters lives. So the custody agreement we've reached is that I'm primary and she will have unlimited visitation.
> 
> We will be selling our house and most of the assets will be split 60/40 in her favor. I've been fortunate enough that I've had a major promotion at my place of employment and although money will always be an issue, it's not an emergency. So since she is being very generous (??) in not fighting me for custody I'm choosing not going to get into a fight over the money.
> 
> Honestly, all I want is my freedom at this point. I love her, but I don't trust her at all, and even after a year of truly believing she isn't doing anything behind my back, I still am just too broken by her betrayal(s) to be able to trust her again.
> 
> Of course at this point, she is free to date as many people as she wants. My only regard at this point is that they aren't introduced to my daughter's lives until she is serious about someone. But that is all just theory right now. Who knows how everything will play out.
> 
> It's not how I anticipated my life would be entering my 40's. But life will toss you things that you don't expect, and the only thing I think we can do is to adjust as best as possible.
> 
> If any of this sounds a little distant and clinical, it's only because I've had plenty of time to come to terms with things. It obviously isn't that easy to pull the plug on a relationship that is as long as the one we've had. It feels at times still completely raw and painful. But I find if I just keep moving and stay busy every day is a little less painful.


Glad you're doing OK, Malcolm.

PS holy hell, knock on wood? You US folks have that custom/phrase too? I thought I'd see it only around here.


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## just got it 55

Malcom I am glad you seem to have come to terms with your situation

We can only hope that Lost at Sea can as well

For the long term benifit of your daughter

Keep moving forward my young friend

Good luck

55


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## walkonmars

Mal I'm so sorry to hear about your father. I lost my sister to liver cancer earlier this year. So I have some idea of the worry you're going through. My best wishes for a great outcome through successful treatments. 

I admire your resolve. You haven't acted hastily and have given the situation with your wife and family a lot of thought. I think you're doing the right thing for you. 

You're right... we never know what life sends our way. We can only count the blessings and shoulder the burdens as best we can. 

Glad you updated, as I think about your situation from time to time when I read a post from others that are in a situation similar to the one you faced last year. 

You are doing remarkably well. Keep looking out for your daughters and hug your dad while you can. 

I'm glad there's no animosity between you and your ex. She did very bad things during your marriage but she did give you some great kids. 

Keep TAM updated when you can.


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## illwill

Good for you. Always good to see man with a morale code.


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## Malaise

Without trust, you have nothing.


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## happyman64

Malcolm

Glad for you that you made a decision and your head is in the same place. It sounds like your heart finally caught up.

Glad your Dad's condition is better.

Keep loving your girls.

After the divorce everything else will eventually fall into place for you....

HM


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## LostViking

Malcolm I support you. Lost at Sea's treatment of you during her affair was horrific. Most self respecting men could nver get over treatment like that. I'm glad she made an effort to turn herself around but I felt, as many here did, that it was too little too late. 

Actually she should count herself lucky that you are being generous in the divorce. Most men who were treated with the kind of contempt she treated you with would not be so nice. I hope List at Sea can get the help she needs and doesn't pull this stunt on some other poor guy in her future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

I'm glad to hear that your Dad is doing better. You are still young. Cherish your time with your girls and look forward. I wish you all good things.


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## LongWalk

Does Lost at Sea regret having come on to TAM?


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## Summer4744

Malcom. What is Lost at a Seas state of mind. Does she still pine for you? Is she trying to get you back?


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## JCD

Malcom,

I am glad your father is feeling better. I hope there is no remission.

I am glad you are at peace with your decision. My words spoken previously were to make sure you were aware of all the options, not to force you to take any of those options.

I hope your children are doing well and I hope that your wife heals herself away from you enough that she can be a positive influence in your kids life.

I have to compliment you on the way you handled this whole thing. You were a straight shooter and you never seemed to fall into the 'being a dcik' out of anger and rage. You knew your boundaries...and you held to them. Too many people play games which really linger in the long run.

So kudos to you for that. Spend the rest of the year getting your head on straight and see what Destiny sends your way next year. I think the choice to stay single this year was a wise one.

Be well.


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## doubletrouble

Malcolm38 said:


> It's not how I anticipated my life would be entering my 40's. But life will toss you things that you don't expect, and the only thing I think we can do is to adjust as best as possible.


It never turns out how you thought. Here at 55 I'm struggling with similar things, and after enough tries to "get it right," things still come out of the woodwork to getcha. 

The saying goes "combat is a fluid situation." That's life, too.


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## 86857

I just read your story Malcolm. Like me you had a delayed reaction and only at that point did you begin to deal with it. It's seemed to me from your early posts that an A was a deal breaker for you. And you have honoured yourself by doing D. 

Did you know that many men come into their prime in their 40s. You are still young though you may not feel like that right now. I have to say that men who have full custody of their children get a lot of kudos from women. It shouldn't be like that because a woman having custody is just the same. However that is just the way it is. 

There will be an adjustment for a few months and having been there I can tell you that you might be surprised at how quickly you settle into your new life. You will have pain from the past but you won't have ongoing pain. 

Be careful that your exWS doesn't try to come back into your life. Many of them do. Just be prepared.

Your two daughters will ensure that you will never be lonely but make sure to get a babysitter preferably once a week to have social time out with your friends. Get out into the world again. 
All the best to you.


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## Malcolm38

Good Evening to all, 

A week ago I became an officially divorced man. I'm not sure if that is fully tragic, or worthy of some sort of cake and celebration. I'm kind of numb to all of it at this point.

The Ex moved back home and I have full custody of my daughters. I was hopeful that there wouldn't be war for custody, as I would have fully fought if I had to. But she was surprisingly easy to work with in all of this. After reading the horror stories some couples breaking up have, I guess I feel very lucky.

I'm not sure luck is the word though? I'm nudging into my 40's now and hadn't anticipated being a single father moving into a smaller home after having my wife betray me with other men. Not exactly how I wrote it up on my "What do I want out of life" memo I would have written at 18. But I suppose life tosses us curbs we have to navigate around like it or not. 

I plan to start dating again, but I will admit to being rather overly cautious or even a tad jaded at this point. I wouldn't want to be unfair to any potential girlfriend in the future by being overly suspicious about EVERYTHING she does, so perhaps I need a little more time. 

The ex admitted to being broken, and I try very hard to not pile on, considering all she has done to me. But I try to remain civil with her as it is important that my girls have their Mother in their lives at some point in the future, more than they have the last 2 years. I think it's probable I would have been much more wiling to be a lot more vindictive if it wasn't for that factor. There is more than just me to consider in all of this.


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## turnera

I've always heard wait a month for each year of marriage before you try dating again.


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## just got it 55

Do what you gotta do 38

Live by my signature lines

you'll be fine

55


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## MattMatt

Good luck in the future, Malcolm.


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## workindad

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear that you are well and progressing forward with your life. Happiness post divorce is real. You are much better off without the lying cheating spouse. Now you can rebuild. Make the best of it!

WD


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## happyman64

Boy Malcolm you have grown so much since your original post.

It sounds like you are in a better place and your girls are in a safe, loving environment.

And when it comes to your Ex you chose the high road.

I truly hope she steps up as a coparent and Mom to your two girls.

They and you deserve at least that from her.

When it comes to dating you will know when it is time.

Keep us updated on your progress.

As a father of 3 girls I totally get it.

HM


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## LongWalk

An unforgettables post:



Malcolm38 said:


> Good Evening everyone,
> 
> I have taken a break from posting on my thread because I needed to take "a minute" to think these things out.
> 
> The long and short of it is that *my stbxw told me after the Holiday that she wanted to work on making our marriage "stronger than ever", but that she didn't want to end contact with her boyfriend because she thought he was a good man who is a good friend for her. Also, that I shouldn't try to control her. *I'm obviously summarizing the conversation, but that truly is the jist of it.
> 
> The only thing I realized at this point is that I've made a monumental mistake in choosing life partners. So I've done the following:
> 
> 1. Told her to move out. She is staying with a friend for the time being. Not for too long though because of item #3.
> 
> 2. I've put in motion filing for divorce.
> 
> 3. I will be filing for full custody. Now this I had anticipated being a potentially major issue as you can imagine. However, that had a quirky development. It appears that her special friend has made it possible for her to be transferred to the office he works in a number of miles away. *She has accepted and stated to me that perhaps it's best if I have custody of our daughters "for now" while she "finds herself". *
> 
> 4. I had told her employer of her extramarital romance with a boss in their company. But as I can see with her being moved to his office, this wasn't exactly an earth shattering event for them.
> 
> Well, she can certainly find herself elsewhere, because it won't be here.
> 
> *She also stated to me that she always thought she would be able to get back into my life when this fling was done because she thought I'd always be there for her. But I am too selfish to really show her that I care, and that I'll always be selfish. *
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> I could be wrong of course, but I do think that perhaps getting nailed by a co-worker while wearing my wedding ring might put her higher on the selfish ratings chart than my not wanting to be BFF's with her right now. But maybe I'm just too cold to see how mean I am.
> 
> Honestly, all of this really sucks. I feel rather dead inside right now. But the one thing I refuse to do anymore is be walked on. I'd rather be alone.
> 
> It's also incredibly embarrassing to deal with the last 6 months. More-so my reaction than even the being cheated on. "Hi, I had my wife cheat on me and I really didn't do anything about it all summer except give her a boo-boo face and tell her she is mean." I can't imagine what I was thinking.
> 
> I'm all over the place right now. I have to be a good father to my girls. That is #1. But the rest? I'm just figuring it out.


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## harrybrown

Thank you for updating. 

I do hope that you will find happiness in your future. Keep taking good care of your daughters. I am glad that they have you in their lives. I have four daughters myself.


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## Malaise

She left you with few options. Best wishes, Malcom.


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## happy as a clam

Malcolm, I am very impressed by your resolve to put this behind you and move forward in your life.

She truly must be "broken"... as a mother, in a million years I cannot IMAGINE relinquishing custody rights. I'm not saying that as a negative against you, rather a VERY big negative against her. Unlimited visitation is a good thing for her, but to give up all legal say in the well-being of her daughters, well that speaks a lot to her character. Maybe she did it to be compliant and out of a sense of guilt, but I just don't know any mother who would just "hand over the kids."

You did the right thing... best of luck to you!


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## eric415

Great to hear Malcolm. I know the process is longer that you probably expected and having it officially done must take some weight off your mind. I went through a somewhat similar process, yet mine has been much easier as I don't have children. I believe that you being a good man to your wife even after what she did has brought you to the positive custody situation you have with your kids. 

I'm about 1 year post finding out and kicking her out. Not fully divorced yet, but real close. My advice on the dating thing is to go out there and start to try. I had feelings of being jaded and not wanting any commitment once I started seeing women a couple of months ago. I casually dated a few and was very honest on where I was. The process of getting out there and experiencing women that are all different will help you heal. You will realize that a lot of women (probably most) are good people. Trust may begin to grow. It's slowly growing with me. I may be ready to get a little more serious now as I've had some fun and realize what I'm really looking for and that's a deeper connection. Again, The reason I share this with you is make a point have you go out and see what happens. You live once and you don't waste your time wondering if your ready. The only way you'll know is to go out and find out. It's scary, but it's all part of the process.


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## vellocet

Malcolm38 said:


> Good Evening to all,
> 
> A week ago I became an officially divorced man.


Congratulations! You deserved much better, and divorce is just the first step.




> I plan to start dating again, but I will admit to being rather overly cautious or even a tad jaded at this point. I wouldn't want to be unfair to any potential girlfriend in the future by being overly suspicious about EVERYTHING she does, so perhaps I need a little more time.


Trust, just not blindly. Don't be in a hurry to commit. You are still young and have plenty of time to weed out the undesirables. 

So what is your custody situation? Did your X do right by you?


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## Malcolm38

Vellocet, I have full custody. I fully realize how fortunate I am in that regard. 

I have a question for the gang here. Today I received a painting for Valentines Day from my ex-wife.

Long story short she has always painted and is "artistic", among her many attributes (?) or lack thereof. 

Anyway, it's a small painting of a horse on a prairie. Perhaps 11" x 17 or so. Now most of her other gifts, cards, etc. I just throw away. However I have to admit I do feel a bit guilty for taking something that is something she put time and effort into and just throwing it away. 

So, since there is no way in hell I'm keeping it, do I try to find a way to sell it or what might be the type of place I can donate it to? 

I would really enjoy being able to hock it somewhere and get enough money to take a woman out on a date.  

Happy Valentines Day everyone!

***sorry, the utter insanity of all of this crap is actually making me laugh today for some reason. I've finally gone nuts perhaps?


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## soccermom2three

Can you just store it way? Maybe your kids will want it one day since mom painted it.


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## Malaise

soccermom2three said:


> Can you just store it way? Maybe your kids will want it one day since mom painted it.


My thoughts as well.


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## Philat

Just idle curiosity--why is she sending you anything at all for V-day?


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## Malcolm38

Philat said:


> Just idle curiosity--why is she sending you anything at all for V-day?


I know. One would think the whole divorce thing might have given her a hint, right? 

She has made periodic overtures towards me over the last couple of weeks. Gave me a book for Christmas, sent a card for New Years, etc. 

Blah....this "crap" isn't helping me move on. I feel worse than ever....


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## Philat

But you're not falling for it, which is good.


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## adriana

Malcolm38 said:


> Today I received a painting for Valentines Day from my ex-wife.
> 
> Long story short she has always painted and is "artistic", among her many attributes (?) or lack thereof.
> 
> Anyway, it's a small painting of a horse on a prairie. Perhaps 11" x 17 or so. Now most of her other gifts, cards, etc. I just throw away. However I have to admit I do feel a bit guilty for taking something that is something she put time and effort into and just throwing it away.
> 
> So, since there is no way in hell I'm keeping it, do I try to find a way to sell it or what might be the type of place I can donate it to?
> 
> *I would really enjoy being able to hock it somewhere and get enough money to take a woman out on a date*.



I hope you realize how classless that would be. She did what she did and if you don't want to keep the painting then send it back to her. If you don't wish to get any gifts from her, just let her know about it. She should understand and respect it.


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## alte Dame

Hang it in the kids' room. She needs to be relegated to 'Mom only.'


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## happyman64

Malcolm

What is your ExW status?

Does she work for the same company?

Did she switch offices?

The OM in the picture?

HM


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## Malcolm38

happyman64 said:


> Malcolm
> 
> What is your ExW status?
> 
> Does she work for the same company?
> 
> Did she switch offices?
> 
> The OM in the picture?
> 
> HM


My Ex no longer works for the same company and has been working recently in the same field, but for a different company. 

She is not seeing the OM as far as I can tell. But I am not 100% sure, as I've removed myself as much as one can while still having children with someone. That of course is much easier said than done. 

I know she is in counseling, and has mentioned thinking she is a sex addict. A lot of her activity stems from abuse she suffered when she was a child and young teen from a family member. This was unknown to me until recently. 

I do thank everyone for their suggestions and such. I was just joking about the taking the money for selling her painting to date someone. Despite all that has gone on, that would feel "dirty". 

My problem is this....I still love her. But it's so flawed that I don't think I would be able to bring myself to ever forgive her. That's my problem that I deal with. 

As for the painting, I'll give it to my oldest daughter. She is the one most troubled by all of this nonsense. Hopefully she'll be able to appreciate if more than I can at this point.


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## happyman64

Malcolm

There is absolutely nothing wrong with still loving your wife.

I also think there is nothing wrong with letting her know you do.

A person that has been abused as a child very easily allows themselves to be abused by others or even pursues others so they can be abused.

It is a vicious cycle of "sickness".

A victim of abuse feels worthless, lost but especially undeserving of one's love.

LAS exemplifies this.

Maybe telling her that you still love her will someday motivate her to work hard on herself to end that vicious cycle.

It does not mean you forgive her, nor want yo be with her.

But it does mean that you want her to be happy, healthy in mind, spirit and body.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

And as far as the painting.....

Why not just say "Thank You". 

HM


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## weightlifter

Kudos on giving the painting to your daughter.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

I'd get a copy of this painting and hang it in the living room for a few years. Just to see if she figures it out. 








It's a war leader of the Oglala Lakota who went by the name of Crazy Horse...


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## illwill

Malcolm38 said:


> My Ex no longer works for the same company and has been working recently in the same field, but for a different company.
> 
> She is not seeing the OM as far as I can tell. But I am not 100% sure, as I've removed myself as much as one can while still having children with someone. That of course is much easier said than done.
> 
> I know she is in counseling, and has mentioned thinking she is a sex addict. A lot of her activity stems from abuse she suffered when she was a child and young teen from a family member. This was unknown to me until recently.
> 
> I do thank everyone for their suggestions and such. I was just joking about the taking the money for selling her painting to date someone. Despite all that has gone on, that would feel "dirty".
> 
> My problem is this....I still love her. But it's so flawed that I don't think I would be able to bring myself to ever forgive her. That's my problem that I deal with.
> 
> As for the painting, I'll give it to my oldest daughter. She is the one most troubled by all of this nonsense. Hopefully she'll be able to appreciate if more than I can at this point.


What you feel is likely not love (we use that word too much) but a sense of loss, failure and regret that things fell apart.

It will past. And keep your distance. You need to heal before you start trying to heal her.

And telling her you love her, will simply give her false hope. Which is likely to have a longterm negative impact on her.

You are doing well. Dont open yourself up for any setbacks.


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## LongWalk

Hi Malcom,

A lot of time has passed. Eric415 has moved on. TheDeceived is gone. 

Your exWW may not be a black-hearted person, but she could not raise herself when it counted. 

Did TAM improve her?

Have you tried meetup?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3

Malcom,

You have no idea what "drama" girls can create yet as they mature into the women men love! You are so lucky to have your girls with you! Your life is going to be so full with boyfriends, girlfriends, activities, sports, life learning events, their first love, and heart breaks, and along you're so young you're self too! You have so much to look forward to!

I know it's not how you wanted to get there, but what lies ahead of you is still so wonderful. 

-sammy


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