# Let his daughter sleep in our bed



## Bastet (May 29, 2011)

My husband and my stepdaughter have a history of what some might call a weird relationship. Others call it normal.She's 13 now but when she was as old as 9 he was sitting in the bathroom with her while she bathed and she was still parading around naked in front of him.When they spend time together she always lies on top of him or all over him somehow.
I should share that I was abused by someone when I was a kid.My memories of it are fuzzy and I tried therapy for it but it didn't help much.I was fine with sex other than sleeping around a little bit as a teen.The abuse didn't have negative affects on my marriage or our physical relationship.Until stepdaughter got older and my husband wouldn't stop treating her like she was still 3.That's when the trouble started.He would sit in the bathroom with her while she was bathing or showering then he would sit on her bed and talk to her while she was drying off and putting her pajamas on for the night.Then he would lie in bed with her for a while.then he'd come downstairs to be with me but a few minutes later he'd be back in her room saying he needed to tuck her in before she fell asleep.
he still does all that stuff but no longer helps her with pajamas and bathtime.The longer this goes on the less attracted to him I am.I went out of town for a funeral and when I came home I found her pillow on the bed I share with my husband.So I asked him about it.He says oh "daughter" wanted to sleep with me while you were gone.
WTF??So you let your 13 year old daughter share OUR bed while I was out of town?The bed we have sex in??Why did she feel the need to jump into my spot the very second I was out of town?
I don't want to touch him.I don't want him to touch me.Even looking at him makes me want to throw up.I'm afraid we're never going to have sex again and I've already started fantasizing about other men because I'm so unsatisfied and sickened by him.We used to have such a nice marriage.Lots of sex and communication but this thing with his daughter is freaking me out.How do I know if this is normal daddy daughter behavior?What do I do if I can't stand the thought of my husband touching me and I never want to have sex in our bed again?


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Your husbands behavior is deeply disturbing. Since she is not his, I am even more concerned. Take your daughter away from that man immediately. I'm puzzled why you have allowed it. She may have already been abused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bastet (May 29, 2011)

she's my stepdaughtr his daughter.i cant do anything to stop their behavior because she isnt mine.ive complained but he tells me im being jealous.maybe i am but it is ruining our sex life.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Jealous? Omg. He is abusing her. Call authorities and her mom. She is in imminent danger. And yes you can stop him. This is scary beyond scary. Please. I am begging you.

Forget your stupid sex life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bastet (May 29, 2011)

you are one person who thinks it isn't right out of a bunch of others who thinks its perfectly normal since he only sees her every other weekend.so i wont forget my stupid sex life and try to ruin my husbands life based on the opinion of one person.i cant prove a thing and i have talked to her mother about it.she said she cosleeps with the girl too.she told me to get a life and stop overreacting.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

You have some tucked up friends. 

Let an investigation determine if she has been abused. How can you even risk it knowing what you know? I just don't get it. I'm sorry but I don't. My daughter went to her principal when she learned her friends, two girls, were being abused by their dad. She took action. Why won't you?
I hope others chime in here. I don't think I'm off base and neither do you in your heart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Think about it this way - s man who refuses to stop sleeping with his young daughter so that he can have s good sex life with his wife does so why? Also, the term jealous really bothers me. It means something. Jealous is about wanting something someone else has or fearing losing what you do have to another. Why would you be jealous of this one thing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I found this article on google that might relate : Concerned About Father-Daughter Sleeping Arrangements


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Great article!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh he has ejaculated in or on her. Incest, straight up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

I really wish you were not so blunt. You have no idea the effect of that sort of statement to people who have been abused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tourchwood (Feb 1, 2011)

WTF wrong with you people, Runs like a dog you are freaking Moron, and ClipClop you are sick also. 
you all just out of the blue assumed it is incest and ejculation etc. 

if three of you were abused when you were young don't assume all people are abused.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

And you think this situation is ok or did you just want to tell US we are sick? And don't tell me what my thinking is. I do not see abuse around every corner, but this one screams it. Maybe if you knew the damage this does to a child, you wouldn't be such an ******* yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Depends on the culture, OP didn't say where her husband is from! 

It is normal in Chinese culture! 

Chinese parents usually let their children share a bed with them. 

Please don't assume that the parents are sick. Chinese parents are very loving, Chinese are very family oriented. There are many reasons. No 1 reason is the limited space. 

I can't assume anything based on this! An adult should be able to tell if the relationship is just pure father spoiling his daughter or something else.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I was sexually abused as a child, yet still think some of the responses go a LITTLE overboard. Yes, its wrong, but you can't just assume that it has led to something beyond what you see. Yet you owe it to demand some private counseling for the child. Problem is, in most states, if you call state services, you you will start a process that will destroy trust, and you cannot salvage your marriage. In my state, just my son's comment, overheard by a teacher, about feeling depressed, took away our rights as parents. He was joking, but I had no choice but to let the state do what they wanted to do for the next year.

That said, I've been disappointed to find that some former acquaintences consider behavior almost as bad as your husband's to be appropriate. Its more common than you think. Personally, I think it alters the girl's perception of boundaries. My advice, though, is to tell your husband firmly that you will not put up with these missing boundaries in your house. Give him two weeks, and tell him that one of the two of you will leave AND you will call the authorities. Give him a little time to come to the right decision. 

When something sends signals like this, stand firm. Hopefully, you'll find that your husband is just being very naive, and you two can work through this. I completely understand your revulsion, though. 

If he chooses to address the issue, please demand that the child sees a counselor for a while. That's the only way to be sure. The counselor will notify the state if something inappropriate is suspected.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Tourchwood said:


> WTF wrong with you people, Runs like a dog you are freaking Moron, and ClipClop you are sick also.
> you all just out of the blue assumed it is incest and ejculation etc.
> 
> if three of you were abused when you were young don't assume all people are abused.



_Bet the ranch on it._ Anything less you are in denial. Take her to a Gynecologist and see if she's a virgin. I hope she doesn't get pregnant as well. Your step daughter is being sexually molested. She's a god damn little girl.

I was never abused BTW.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

I can't understand why anyone would gamble with a young girl's life.

And answer the question about why he would sacrifice a good relnship with his wife and his sex life to sleep euwith a 13 old?_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

Damn those red flags!!!!

To the OP ~

If a person(s) behavior is such that it leaves you to question the safety of a minor, then it is your obligation to report it to the proper authorities. They will be able to conclude whether a sex crime is present or not. 

Thank You!


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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> And answer the question about why he would sacrifice a good relnship with his wife and his sex life to sleep euwith a 13 old.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Because individuals can be mentally unstable and do unlawful things with minors.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

I slept with my parents, but only for about a year when I was 2. I had life threatening asthma; my parents wanted to be able to monitor my breathing and whisk me to the hospital.

My sense is that your stepdaughter is being sexually abused. Please do not sit idly by and allow this to happen!!


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Tourchwood said:


> WTF wrong with you people, Runs like a dog you are freaking Moron, and ClipClop you are sick also.
> you all just out of the blue assumed it is incest and ejculation etc.
> 
> if three of you were abused when you were young don't assume all people are abused.


Thinking more about this. What is out of the blue about our fears? This happens and even his wife doesn't know for sure. It isn't like she is 100% certain. 

Ignoring very real signs is unforgivable imo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

For the sake of getting back to point and the kid has alot of friends,does good in school, isn't cutting her self, and all the nieghbors pets are accounted for......and the bio mom knows about the behavior, then your husband has just screwed up another marriage by not respecting his wife enough to make adjustments. 

In my opinion, sex is the glue that holds the marriage together, so when that breaks down then its time to move on. Granted it can be repaired, but you have a pretty bad taste in your mouth about the bed thing so it'll take a pro to help you guys out. There is a huge amount of resentment here and thats always a marriage breaker.

How is the kids behavior, anyway?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

GP,
I think it is helpful that you interject some cultural breadth into this conversation. 

There is a situation in the US in which this would be ok - not considered "weird": Your child is "ill" and BOTH parents are in the bed. 

Would it really be ok in China for the wife to go away for a weekend and the 13 year old to sleep in bed with the father?

There is no circumstance under which I would have shared a bed with my daughters - just me and them - above the age of 10. Even if they were sick. If my W was away - they could sleep in "our" bed, but I would sleep on the recliner chair in the bedroom. 

The original post has a ton of red flags.




greenpearl said:


> Depends on the culture, OP didn't say where her husband is from!
> 
> It is normal in Chinese culture!
> 
> ...


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Have you ever discussed this with him? If so, what does he say?

By most western standards, I would agree that this is not typical practice. However, in itself, this behavior certainly does not mean there is abuse. Sometimes in families that have gone through very difficult times (and I'm assuming that in this case there was at least a breakdown of the daughter's family) there are behaviors that don't appear normal to others. And culturally, even in the western world, it is quite normal for teenage girls to, for example, sunbathe topless or even nude in front of their fathers (e.g. in Germany). Same goes for kissing on the mouth. You many not care what is acceptable or not in other cultures but the question here is whether there is abuse, not if what they are doing is 'normal'. If there is no abuse but you are still uncomfortable with the behavior because you feel threatened and jealous with it, then this is just something that you need to work out with him and probably with marital therapy.

Frankly, I also feel that some of the language that you use with regards to the jealously toward your daughter (as opposed to concern for a potential serious problem) is a little strange too. For example, your language around her climbing into bed as soon as you go away and that it's the bed that you and your husband have sex in. You seem very jealous of her and threatened...perhaps this is fuelling your perceptions of what's going on.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

I would argue that she is jealous and threatened because her gut is telling her something is very wrong. Women generally know when their mate is up to something even if they can't put their finger on it.

A voice activated recorder might help. Not necessarily going to be definitive, but may provide addl info.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> GP,
> I think it is helpful that you interject some cultural breadth into this conversation.
> 
> There is a situation in the US in which this would be ok - not considered "weird": Your child is "ill" and BOTH parents are in the bed.
> ...


MEM,

If the man is doing something wired, wouldn't he want to cover what he is doing?

And if the daughter is abused, she should be scared of her dad, shouldn't she? 

The OP might be jealous of her stepdaughter. 

I don't know what is going on! 

I would feel uncomfortable if I were involved in a situation like this!


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## discouraged1 (Mar 16, 2010)

ClipClop said:


> I would argue that she is jealous and threatened because her gut is telling her something is very wrong. Women generally know when their mate is up to something even if they can't put their finger on it.
> 
> A voice activated recorder might help. Not necessarily going to be definitive, but may provide addl info.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree here.... you need more information. Seems clear to me this is out of line but accusing anyone of molestation without proof is very damaging.
Have you tried talking with the girl? She may tell you more than you think.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

discouraged1 said:


> I agree here.... you need more information. Seems clear to me this is out of line but accusing anyone of molestation without proof is very damaging.
> Have you tried talking with the girl? She may tell you more than you think.


Even though there is no molestation, the man should stop what he is doing right away. 

It is not healthy for the daughter! 

And it is causing marital problems for his marriage!


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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> If the man is doing something wired, wouldn't he want to cover what he is doing?
> 
> And if the daughter is abused, she should be scared of her dad, shouldn't she?


Situations which encompass sex crimes involve individuals whom are mentally unstable. Consequently, the offender nor the adolescent victim will not respond to these circumstances in ways many people deem as a normal behavior.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

And sometimes the child just shuts down when it is happening but goes on as though nothing is wrong in the rest of their life. Someone that has been abused long enough might just accept it as inevitable. Or they might bond. Yes, inside somewhere they know it is wrong, but they can't access it.another possibility is the fear that it is their fault and afraid to tell out of shame. Or OT could be that fear of telling because what might happen in an already messed up family like this one could be worse. And the age old fear of what will happen to the perp if they ate outed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

ClipClop said:


> I would argue that she is jealous and threatened because her gut is telling her something is very wrong. Women generally know when their mate is up to something even if they can't put their finger on it.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The OP could be jealous and feel threatened even if she feels there is nothing sexual going on. I don't think one necessarily has anything to do with the other.

I still think that the OP's reaction is strange - to first be thinking of her daughter jumping in HER bed that she has sex with her husband in. IF there is abuse, it sounds like the OP is laying a lot of blame on the victim! I don't see much concern for the girl from the OP. I don't know much about how people react to this kind of abuse in a family but if a child is being abused, I would expect that the first concern would be for the daughter's well being and not just simply being turned off by the abuser and starting to think about having sex with other people instead. Perhaps the OP doesn't think there is abuse but rather just detests the behavior. This is not clear from the post. I hope so because I would hope that if she really thinks there is abuse, the first thoughts would be for the protection of the child and not just lament over the loss of her marriage like this was some kind of affair.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

You would be surprised at the people who look the other way for their own reasons.

I agree her demeanor is odd, especially coming from a survivor. That may be a holdover from guilt about what happened to her. Also, she cannot believe the man that she loves could be just like her perp. It would shatter her world. But you also know that victims tend to attract the wrong sort of people until they begin to realize that they are putting trust in the wrong sort.

I do think she has an odd response, but I still think this is an abuse situation
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> And sometimes the child just shuts down when it is happening but goes on as though nothing is wrong in the rest of their life. Someone that has been abused long enough might just accept it as inevitable. Or they might bond. Yes, inside somewhere they know it is wrong, but they can't access it.another possibility is the fear that it is their fault and afraid to tell out of shame. Or OT could be that fear of telling because what might happen in an already messed up family like this one could be worse. And the age old fear of what will happen to the perp if they ate outed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is a wide array of resulting behaviors and mental processing which can be present for a minor of sexual abuse. That is why it is imperative for an adult to speak up and be the voice for any child who is suspected of being subjected to ANY form of abuse.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think everyone could easily be jumping to the wrong conclusion. 

I remember when my daughters were younger, they slept with me the odd time. They might have been 10 or so, maybe 13, to be honest I can't remember. 

My son who is 14 will sleep with my wife when I am away. I don't think anything inappropriate is happening. I can see this stopping though as he is just reaching puberty.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Would you choose sleeping with your daughters over your wife.or her objections? And why without the.wife.but.o.ly without her? 

This is.an ongoing issue, not.a.once in a while because the.child is.scared or.user kind of thing. 

And I think it odd for a.mom to sleep with a 14 year old boy. But since women abuse less frequently, I am less concerned. How would she.react if you told her it is no longer appropriate? Would she.say you are just jealous?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

The guy only sees his daughter every other weekend. He has limited time to get close to her and to bond with her. It doesn't sound like his daughter sleeps with him very often (wife was away for a funeral). I think this could all be very innocent.

It is obvious that the wife is not the daughter's mother. A mother would describe the situation very differently. I think she was trying to paint a picture that looks worse than it actually is.

If I asked my wife she would probably say, "Yeah, he is getting a little old for that".


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

So you think the op is a jealous looney who is jealous of a 13 year old girl?

But what about the questions I asked you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think she is resentful of her husbands relationship with his daughter.

The statement that makes me wonder is, "Why did she feel the need to jump into my spot the very second I was out of town?" Just doesn't sound like someone concerned about a child being molested.

Your questions, 

"Would you choose sleeping with your daughters over your wife.or her objections?"

I am not sure this is happening on a regular basis. I think her objection was him being close to her. She only mentioned the one time that they slept together when she was out of town.

If I was doing nothing wrong, I wouldn't automatically choose my wife over my daughter. I would try to explain how I only see my daughter once every other weekend, and I want to make sure she knows I care about her.

"And why without the.wife.but.o.ly without her?"

Not sure what this question is.

"How would she.react if you told her it is no longer appropriate?"

I already answered with "Yeah, he is getting a little old for that"

"Would she.say you are just jealous?"

I guess she would if that is what she thought.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

How does sleeping with w 13 yo with no supervision make her feel loved?
Imagine telling your friends that at 13 or 14. Where are the boundaries between parent and child? These kids are both in puberty. Your wife thinks yeah, he is getting too old for this. That guy says ****** off to his wife.

I would leave a man over this, but not before I investigated thoroughly because a child's mental and physical well being are at stake.

Anyway, op seems to have fled.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

How does it make her feel loved? 

When my kids would crawl in with me, we would spend a bunch of time talking about what is going on in their lives. Maybe have a little pillow fight. 

The boundaries would be the same in bed as they are when sitting in the family room or anywhere else in the house. Don't you ever give your teenaged children a hug?


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## KJ5000 (May 29, 2011)

couple said:


> The OP could be jealous and feel threatened even if she feels there is nothing sexual going on. I don't think one necessarily has anything to do with the other.
> 
> I still think that the OP's reaction is strange - to first be thinking of her daughter jumping in HER bed that she has sex with her husband in. IF there is abuse, it sounds like the OP is laying a lot of blame on the victim! I don't see much concern for the girl from the OP. I don't know much about how people react to this kind of abuse in a family but if a child is being abused, I would expect that the first concern would be for the daughter's well being and not just simply being turned off by the abuser and starting to think about having sex with other people instead. Perhaps the OP doesn't think there is abuse but rather just detests the behavior. This is not clear from the post. I hope so because I would hope that if she really thinks there is abuse, the first thoughts would be for the protection of the child and not just lament over the loss of her marriage like this was some kind of affair.


I have to agree. Although some of the behavior seems a bit strange, a child (and yes you are still a child at 13) sleeping with a parent is not wrong IMO.
What really raised my eyebrow was the fact that the OP starts fantasizing about having sex with other men as a result of this. Really? Sounds likes she's already setting up rationalizations for future deeds.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Yes, I hug my children. We are very close. But they sleep in their beds even if we are talking on mine.

Hugging and this are way different. This guy spent a surprising amount of time with his child when she was naked. I stand my ground until there is an investigation into this. Again, it just isn't worth the risk.

How bout you folks ask your 13 year olds if this story sounds kosher.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

SadSamIAm said:


> How does it make her feel loved?
> 
> When my kids would crawl in with me, we would spend a bunch of time talking about what is going on in their lives. Maybe have a little pillow fight.
> 
> The boundaries would be the same in bed as they are when sitting in the family room or anywhere else in the house. Don't you ever give your teenaged children a hug?


I have to say I agree with you. OP's complaint is not regarding concern of child. Being snuggled in bed with one's child in itself isn't necessarily creep or inappropriate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

ClipClop said:


> How does sleeping with w 13 yo with no supervision make her feel loved?
> 
> Anyway, op seems to have fled.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Since when does a parent need 'supervision' to be with their own child?

I accept that abuse is a big problem but I think as a society we are far too paranoid about abuse and our paranoia exhibits itself in strange ways (like feeling that we need supervision to be alone with our own children). Maybe we are more paranoid about the APPEARANCE of being molesters. Someone else on this thread also made a comment that they would only sleep with their child IF the child were ill and IF their wife was also in the bed. Why does it matter if the wife is there are not? Are we afraid that this could give the appearance that there is abuse? Are we afraid that the child might wrongly accuse and you need a witness to say nothing happened? Do we not trust ourselves and need someone else there to keep us 'honest'? 

Sorry but this mentality is pretty strange.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Yeah... until you rececognize that the appearance of impropriety often indicates impropriety.

Again, is it worth the risk? 

If this were your child with an ex or a sibling or a step, would you feel comfortable? Wouldn't you want to know for certain? If not, why not?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyTwoGirls (May 31, 2011)

I agree with Sad..I have a 12 AND 10 yr old daughter and sometimes I still sleep with them if we crash out watching a movie. I think she is a little jealous IMHO.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

ClipClop said:


> Yeah... until you rececognize that the appearance of impropriety often indicates impropriety.
> 
> Again, is it worth the risk?
> 
> ...


But the Mom isn't concerned the step mom is concerned because the kid is taking her 'spot'. As a mom my kids at 12 and 9 would crawl in with me for movie night with our 2 dogs. Am I creepy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> But the Mom isn't concerned the step mom is concerned because the kid is taking her 'spot'. As a mom my kids at 12 and 9 would crawl in with me for movie night with our 2 dogs. Am I creepy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, you are not. We did the same with my parents. It doesn't sound like you did this:

She's 13 now but when she was as old as 9 he was sitting in the bathroom with her while she bathed and she was still parading around naked in front of him.When they spend time together she always lies on top of him or all over him somehow.

He would sit in the bathroom with her while she was bathing or showering then he would sit on her bed and talk to her while she was drying off and putting her pajamas on for the night.Then he would lie in bed with her for a while.then he'd come downstairs to be with me but a few minutes later he'd be back in her room saying he needed to tuck her in before she fell asleep.

he still does all that stuff but no longer helps her with pajamas and bathtime.The longer this goes on the less attracted to him I am.I went out of town for a funeral and when I came home I found her pillow on the bed I share with my husband.So I asked him about it.He says oh "daughter" wanted to sleep with me while you were gone.
WTF??So you let your 13 year old daughter share OUR bed while I was out of town?The bed we have sex in?? 

Big difference.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

First off i totally understand that this may not seem OK in your mind. That said I think you need to discuss this with your H. It is understandable that you see your bedroom as a sort of sactuary for you both. 

That said, I totally disagree with the people who suspect abuse. I don't think your post points to this necessarily. Different people have acceptance levels of nudity etc. My father used to walk around naked in front of my sister and I and thought nothing of it. 
My daughter is 7. Her and her brother shower together and the see eachother naked. I help her them get dressed, dry off after a shower etc. I don't know if doing this a 9 would be terrible. Granted unnacceptable to some not to others. 

Both my children want to snuggle with me or climb on top of me for that matter. Both my kids sleep with me when my wife travels sometimes. She has trouble sleeping when they are in are bed so when my wife is away the light is green for us to all sleep together. It is fun, pure and innocent fun!!! Will I continue to do it when they are 13 or older???...I probably will!!!!! and don't think this is wrong.....i don't know but, i can tell you it will always be innocent even if some could argue otherwise. It may be creepy to some but, perfectly OK in my mind. Some may not agree with me. People who were abused or more exposed to abuse may think differently. 

I think your situation has an added complexity given the nature of the stepdaughter/stepmother relationship and its wacky dynamics. She may be teritorial of her daddy and trully may be marking her territory in some way. She also may like the attention from him perhaps more than daughters of her age. I am not making excuses for your H. Your husband may be also trying to overcompensate for splitting up with her mom. 

Unless you post added information to point to the contary I don't think that any abuse or anything innappropriate is going on. 

Your husband has a responsibilty to you AND his daughter. This will not be easy. I think that her behavior could be indicative of a young girl who is vying for the attention of her father as well. She could also be jealous of you or resent you as many girls do their stepmom sorry to say. Your H's relationship with his daughter is/will be a challange for the both of you to manage and will likely require compromise as you have surely realized by now. 

Good luck


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

I was abused by a family friend. He took showers with his 15 year old daughter when she got older, made her come in the bathroom with him when he needed his back washed etc...

The bathroom thing is VERY wrong. Can you imagine how traumatizing this is to a child? To see your father naked when you are just learning about boys and exploring your own sexuality? How is that appropriate? She is 13 NOT 9. She is DEVELOPING breasts and getting her period. She is not a kid anymore but growing into a teen. 

The sleeping thing.. I would understand if she stayed with both of you while you watched TV etc and then moved back to her own bed, this is a bit creepy... esp. because he used the word "jealous"- as if you are jealous of another woman.. sleeping in your bed.. 

Can you speak with the daughter? Can you ask the mother? 
Do you have children together?


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

Wait a minute!!! 

I totally think that we shoud err on the side of caution especially since there could be abuse going on. The information that the Original poster (bastet) presented is confusing. 

The reputation of a man, the relationship with his ex-wife, his daughter and with his current wife all hangs in the balance potentially based upon what you people are telling this poor women. Hopefully, she will be cautious about taking any advice from any one of us overly seriously given the magnitude of what people are suggesting if they are right (or wrong for that matter).

I THINK IS CRITICAL FOR THE BASTET TO CLARIFY THINGS HERE!!!
I had to reread the 3 posts from you a couple times to understand what your H is doing/ not doing. I think in fairness people are giving you responses based upon lack of clarity and you need to clarify if you want the responses to be based upon facts. 
1)	I see no mention of the H ever being naked in front of his daughter. I think this changes the relative complection of the situation either way. 
2)	I also am understanding that the drying off naked thing/getting dressed has stopped since she was 9. I think this is important distinction to make and may change some peoples responses to this whole thing!!! 
3)	I am also understanding that both H and Daughter are fully dressed in bed (or pajamas) as there is no indication otherwise. 
4)	I think it should also be noted that “jealousy” between a daughter and her stepmom or between a stepmom/daughter relationship is NOT that uncommon and it can go both ways. So while it may be a red flag for abuse it could also have more benign causation than abuse. 

Also, you cannot make these suggestions in a vaccume. 

If you were to ask the mother she may be totally dishonest. I mean what the Fu$%!! If you have ever whitnessed a messy divorce (and how many are not) they can make honest people do very bad things. The ex wife could use this as leverage to perhaps take the daughter away based upon things totally taken out of context. 

I think these points need to be clarified if you want people to give you correct infromation about how "creepy" what your H is doing or if there could be anything to worry about. I think you should also indicate if there are other chlidren in the house too.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

bunny23 said:


> I was abused by a family friend. He took showers with his 15 year old daughter when she got older, made her come in the bathroom with him when he needed his back washed etc...I was abused by my cousin. I also felt very uncomfortable watching my mother bathe.
> 
> The bathroom thing is VERY wrong. Can you imagine how traumatizing this is to a child? To see your father naked when you are just learning about boys and exploring your own sexuality? How is that appropriate? She is 13 NOT 9. She is DEVELOPING breasts and getting her period. She is not a kid anymore but growing into a teen. I agree. I have never seen my father naked. He stopped bathing me when I was 8. I used to bathe and sleep with with my younger brother, until those hard little breast buds came when I was 10. My mother told me that I was growing into a big girl and I was too old to let my brother see me naked.
> 
> ...


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

Mrs G and others: 

Again you are basing your facts on an unclear post. Re-read it. It NEVER says the girl is naked at 13, it indicates it stoped at 9 but, is not clear. 

It also NEVER indicates that he is naked!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Does not matter.


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## cherrypie18 (Feb 21, 2010)

I think I can understand what the OP means mostly because my ex husband would go hug his 20 year old sister in her bed when she wasn't feeling well and lie next to her. One time I got up to go to the bathroom and noticed he was in her bed. the door was semi closed. I wasn't sure what to feel or think. Another time he suggested we do a slumber party in our bed with her... Or when we went on vacation he wanted us to share 1 bed while I had plans of the 2 of us being alone and possibly having sex. I don't think it has anything to do with jealousy but it did feel weird and confusing. 

She would walk around the house in a white tshirt without a bra (double Ds), sit on my ex's lap, sit on her father's lap and what not. It made me feel uncomfortable and uneasy seeing her double D's rub against ex and ex FIL. 

I don't know maybe I have a twisted mind or whatever but any person who starts puberty should stop sleeping in their parent's bed, walk around in their underwear in front of each other and such claiming that it's the same as being in a bathing suit. Well it's not. 

Anyway parents need to learn to let go of their children and stop treating them like they were 5 when they're actually teens. Everyone needs privacy and space.

I wonder if it has anything to do with independence because ex's family still does that "close family" thing and that got me thinking maybe that's probably the reason why my ex is still a momma's boy and can't let go of her.


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

For what it is worth, I think people who see it as a case of abuse, do so because that is the reality that has tempered their lives. 

Nudity is not unnatural, clothing is. People who think it weird that he would sit and talk to her in the bath when she was NINE are entitled to their opinions, but a parent who only gets a SMALL amount of time to be with their child, will generally want to ensure that the time is used to it's maximum. The OP stated that he gave her space for her modesty after that, so he is obviously not looking for sexual jollies in seeing her naked. 

At what age should a parent stop spending time with their child alone? Seriously, a bed time story, or talking about the next days activities, because he has limited time to do things and has plans to use that time up, some settling time ALONE for her reading or playing on her iphone or whatever, then a much needed, lights out, goodnight message. Proper parenting indeed.

The girl obviously dotes on her father and wants to be close to him. How many fathers have teenage daughters who actually LIKE being with them?! She knows that she has to enjoy and appreciate the time she gets with him.

Step-mum goes away so Daddy and daughter can have their own little slumber party, watch a movie, talk about life, Justin Bieber and the fact that she really doesn't think the Wiggles are cool any more. It is about father-daughter bonding, not inappropriate sexual overtones.

At 13 she is old enough to say "No, I don't want to go to Dad this weekend." If she were being abused she would not go there willingly or happily.

The OP has her own tainted views and therefore is seeing things negatively, and that is transferred to her written word. Which in turn has been amplified and misconstrued by those of you who have suffered abuse in the past. Like a war veteran diving for cover when a car backfires. When the smoke clears, he is still there, but the adrenalin is still pumping.

I also feel the OP is feeling very threatened by the bond that the father-daughter have.

I would never stop doing something innocent with MY child if a second wife didn't like it. If I am innocent of the charges she lays, then it is her problem to deal with, and NOTHING is greater than the bond I share with MY child(ren) in that dynamic. A person has one chance only to raise their child, and as many chances as they need to create a relationship.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Because she is 13 does not mean she would say no to visiting her father. You obviously don't know that abused people behave in surprising ways at times. Ways you wouldn't think they would,behave if they were being abused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

Seriously ClipClop, you have a negative spin on every thread I ever see you post on. 

Husband farted- Divorce him
Husband looked at me sideways - He is sick get rid of him.
Husband told me no - call the police on that motherf*****

You see nastiness in every situation, perhaps there is, perhaps there isn't. But you sit here reading ONE angry, venting and confused poster's story and you are immediately the sole purveyor of all that is. Even tho they have come back TWICE and vehemently denied that any evidence of sexual abuse was taking place.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Since you know everything about abused children's behaviour, you must be right. But it is not as though I am alone in my opinion. I guess you think your opinion cannot be questioned or contradicted since you have to resort to personal attacks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

WhiteRabbit said:


> Actually, clipclop is one of the few people on the site giving me positive things to think about in regard to my situation. I do find it oh so entertaining when people have such weak points to make that they resort to outright attacking someone.
> 
> Id like to see op come back to expand on the details of her situation. I read it twice and I don't think she thinks her husband is abusing the child..she was here to get opinions and I didn't get anything from her post that told me she believes her husband is a child molester.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's mephisto's point. People are calling abuse when OP doesn't seem to think that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

I made an observation about ClipClop's constant negativity, it wasn't a personal attack. 

As I also said in your (quite long) thread WR, people screaming their rage over your situation and venting on the site does not help, as they know only a little of the story and from only one standpoint.

In this thread alone, ClipClop has constantly screamed rage about how the child IS being abused and that the husband is some form of sexual predator. No logic, no psychological fact, just rage at what she reads of the husbands behaviour from ONE post. She does not defend her position, just reiterates the same diatribe that no-one can possibly understand what is going on because he is so obviously diddling the daughter.

I have observed ClipClop's misandristic views and rapid anger and rigid stanpoints in a lot of the threads she posts on. I have called attention to that. I have seen in her responses, evidence that she does not read the entire thread, nor even the entire post on some occasions before she is banging out a reply. Her very first response assumed the child was the OP's when it clearly states that it is the OP's STEPDAUGHTER. The fact she sides with you, WR, is because she consistently hates any actions by men that woman report here that they don't like. 

If she can actually back up her argument here, I will listen, I am not a fool who thinks he knows best about everything, but I do tend to read between the lines of what is said and what the situation is. I do read the original post thoroughly to digest the situation, and take the OP's attitude in the post into consideration. I am able to understand the psychology of men better than women and will use that knowledge to temper my response to the OP.

Again, screaming impotent rage at a situation that you do not know the full facts on is not healthy for anyone. It tempers the mentality of all others who read it and sets up a MOB mentality. 

In this situation, she is making a VERY LARGE and dangerous accusation that would destroy the reputation of anyone it was levelled against in the real world, regardless of them being found innocent or guilty.

My argument was made, points raised and clarified, and an attitude defended. Where in this thread has ClipClop done that to support her stance?


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

You would risk a child. I wouldn't. I won't defend my position to you because this is about your attitude toward me alone and nothing else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

I beg to differ here ClipClop. My attitude was towards the lack of actual fact in responses, or in your case especially, a response so hastily brought about that you did not even read the post in it's entirety. 

I risk nothing. Neither do you, We sit in our own worlds and tap away on a keyboard, making assumptions about other people's realities based on what we read and "think" or "feel." 

I THINK a certain way, as do you. Neither one of us will make a difference to the status quo in this poster's life, especially regarding the fact that she has already fled the scene. And if there was indeed any dalliance, then it is done and therefore so too the damage. But in my opinion, nothing wrong has been done, unless a father having a strong bond with his daughter is wrong.

So now we enter into the dissection of what the argument of for and against is. You refuse to back up your position, simply because you have been called on an attitude tempered entirely by your own supposed personal experience. You cry out to cyberspace about the sins of the father, you WOULD crucify him regardless of any guilt or innocence, simply because YOU were done wrong by. 

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps I am not. But I think that people closer to the source are far more qualified to read fully into a situation than people on the opposite side of the world reading one person's malcontent. 

You and I, we are only surmising, and in the interest of full disclosure on how we come to our conclusions and thereby better understand future situations, I ask again, for you to clarify WHY you see it in the light that you do. Justify your position and educate us all as to why this is so wrong.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

To make things more complicated, there are two issues at work here:

Potential Incest
Potential Abuse

Both illegal in our country but not universally illegal in countries across the world, incest that is.

There are a few "sexual energy" things that DO worry me about this case.

A. The fact the girl apparently sees her father every other weekend. That tells me she is lonely for him, as children of both genders are during divorce. My 8 year old son "camps" with his dad on the floor in his room when he stays over a lot. My middle son and I are very close in that regard and he used to "camp" with me all the time, because I slept separate from my ex-wife.

Personally, I have a hard time sleeping with anyone any bed with me. . .but that's just me. . .this is why even though I have a king sized bed, he stays on the floor on a blow-up mattress and sleeping bag and he's happy as a pig in mud to do that - having a parental presence is comforting to him I suppose and actually, I kinda miss him when he isn't here.

B. I always counsel my back pain patients the bed is for 2 things involving your spine and pelvis - sleep and intimacy. Culturally, that is what a bed is for and I know just being in bed with a woman is a "sexual cue" for me as a guy.

C. Regarding incest, this is an extremely volatile subject. . .in our brains, especially for guys, but also for gals is an overlap between sex and love. The brain can misinterpret these signals. This is where "abuse" becomes blurry often as in the recent case of the Columbia professor who was having sex with his 24 year old daughter, apparently consentual.

So, I suspect this daughter is lonely for her dad, loves him. . .geez, I am not trying to create "scandal" here at TAM. . .but you all get the psychological picture at play.

Girls also at that age get the idea that to "keep the heart of a man, you have to have sex with him", especially divorced daughters who often go promiscuous. They see their mother going through this internal conflict - they won't have sex with their father and their father left. . .they are left to resolve that on their own.

Boys get general behavioral problems as a risk.

D. Humans put out pheremones. It's fairly proven.

All in all, this situation is extremely, EXTREMELY volatile and yes, needs to be defused immediately.

Notice my choice of words: * DEFUSED. *

It's a bomb ready to go off as you can see the other posters here flying off the handle like an animated woman on stage on Jerry Springer (clipclop doing the neck roll and finger wagging to lynch the dude).

I don't think even if something happened that locking Dad up in jail for a long time (to probably be lynched) is the best thing for everyone in the family.

The consequences would not only be dire for the father, but also dire for the daughter who would live with guilt (even though she shouldn't) that her father got locked away because of her.

Think "defusing", not confrontation in this situation.

Good luck.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

BTW, to the original poster (Bassett??):

I have always foudn that coming to TAM that you will often tend to get a "liberal, raging feminist" bias here. Well, those posts tend to be the most vocal and attention grabbing.

You got that with ClipClop. . .now I ask you to consider a more moderate, thoughtful "centrist" approach to this situation. . .SimplyAmorous (female, non-feminist), Greenpearl (female, non-feminist) and I think my post was centrist (sexist male  ). There are other centrist posts in here of whom I am less familiar with (mephisto) . All of us shared your concern and are not just shrugging this off.

I think when you get our opinions on the Sex Forum, you are getting Sexual Male and Sexual Female biased responses (we all have our biases).

But I am not certain about calling the law on him just because you are suspicious.

SA's article on Page 1 with the social consequences to this girl is another reason to defuse this.

I tend to be more "preventative" in my outlook on situations like this than reactionary.


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