# Don't know if I can marry a woman with a "sl*tty" past



## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

I have been dating my current girlfriend for 4 years, and I do love her and have a desire to marry her. The relationship doesn't have too many problems, but her past is holding me back from popping the question.

I am 33, and I have only had sex with 3 women in my entire life, including the current girl friend. I'm ok with sex before marriage (obviously), but I believe you should have a strong connection before having sex. I knew each woman for months before sleeping with them. I have turned several women down for sex. All of my past girlfriends have been similar to me. The last woman I dated had only slept with one guy and refused to sleep with me before marriage.

However, my current girlfriend was definitely a wild girl before she met me. She has had a LOT of partners, including one woman! She told me this a couple of months in, and I was shocked and DISGUSTED. I couldn't believe that a girl who seemed so nice could have had that past. She is definitely the kind of girl a lot of people would call a "sl*t."

This has caused a rift between us for the past 4 years, because I can't seem to get over it no matter how hard I try. I don't have any reason to believe she has been or will be unfaithful.

But I haven't done a good job at hiding how much her past bothers me. She's no dummy -- she obviously can pick up on how I feel about it. She doesn't seem to regret or feel that bad for her past either. She says she regrets it and feels really ashamed, but when we talk about certain events she doesn't seem to care all that much. 

For example, about 7 years ago she slept with her friend's older brother. She justifies it by saying she was really attracted to him and her friend was fine with it so why not? She barely knew the guy besides just saying "hi" to him when over at her friend's house. I finally exploded on her and told her she was a "sl*t" Of course I apologized later and feel bad about calling her that. But that's just one example of the stuff she's done and her attitude and it's frustrating. And it's not even the worst thing.

I just don't know what to do. How can I move on?

Troll Post -Amp


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Seems like you wasted 4 years of this girls life. You can't move on.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Stop wasting her time, and move on.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

It's just fine to say you can't marry a woman with a varied past. Heck I wouldn't have married my husband if he tom-catted around like a few of his fellow soldiers. 

But why waste 4 years of your lives? Why name call? Why yell? Let her go and wish her the best of luck. And I mean sincerely wish her the best of luck. Someone will accept her for who she is. And someone will accept you for who you are.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm trying to figure out why you've struggled with this for the last 4 years. When did you find out about her past?

As the others have said, it seems that you've wasted 4 years of both yours and her lives. Dating is a time to see if you're compatible, and it seems like you're incompatible in a major way.

C


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

PBear said:


> I'm trying to figure out why you've struggled with this for the last 4 years. When did you find out about her past?
> 
> As the others have said, it seems that you've wasted 4 years of both yours and her lives. Dating is a time to see if you're compatible, and it seems like you're incompatible in a major way.
> 
> C


She told me a few months in. I guess I just thought since everything else was great that I could learn to live with that one part of her life.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Friend. You don't seem to have a problem having sex with her. If you found out about her past a couple of months in to your relationship, then you should have moved on. At least she was honest with you about it. It would be another thing if you found out after you married her so give the girl some credit.

If you want a girl with your values then go find one and have fun but it's obvious that she's been treating you pretty damn good if you stuck around for four years. My advice is $h!t or get off the pot.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

I do feel bad. I have used those names against her a couple of times. I guess part of me was trying to shame her into feeling worse about it so I could know she has truly changed. She cried a lot and said how ashamed she was, but still won't admit some of what she did was really bad, like sleeping with her friend's brother. I guess I just wanted to know she had really changed.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

JoeJ said:


> I do feel bad. I have used those names against her a couple of times. I guess part of me was trying to shame her into feeling worse about it so I could know she has truly changed. She cried a lot and said how ashamed she was, but still won't admit some of what she did was really bad, like sleeping with her friend's brother. I guess I just wanted to know she had really changed.


To be honest either accept her for who she is (including past) and whatever type of girlfriend she has been or let her go (nothing wrong that if you with that it if you choose too).

She doesn't deserve someone she cares about trying to belittle or shame her for what she's done in the past, at least she was honest with you.


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## betrayed2013 (Feb 5, 2013)

dude, the past is the past. If u have been with her for 4 yrs and suspected no wrong doings on her part, then just accept it as she lived a party lifestyle like a lot of people do. People do settle down.......of course, I married a girl with a questionable past and then she screwed me over after 9.5 yrs together. We are now on the road to divorce and she regrets everything and is begging for me back, so maybe its best u bail. U dont want to go thru wat i just did. trust me. Look for a woman that has ur same values and beliefs.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

JoeJ said:


> I do feel bad. I have used those names against her a couple of times. I guess part of me was trying to shame her into feeling worse about it so I could know she has truly changed. She cried a lot and said how ashamed she was, but still won't admit some of what she did was really bad, like sleeping with her friend's brother. I guess I just wanted to know she had really changed.


This comes down to your own insecurity, it has nothing to do with her. Let her go and work on your own issues.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> I do feel bad. I have used those names against her a couple of times. I guess part of me was trying to shame her into feeling worse about it so I could know she has truly changed. She cried a lot and said how ashamed she was, but still won't admit some of what she did was really bad, like sleeping with her friend's brother. I guess I just wanted to know she had really changed.


No, you need to be honest. You felt challenged and beaten because her sexual past is more adventuresome than yours. This is what you need to work on before you go for another relationship! Cause dude, women your age are having a great time and if you can't cope with it, you better find yourself totally in love with the wallflower who you normally wouldn't think twice about.

Sl*t shaming is frankly despicable! God nothing pisses me off more because it is such a blatant sexist double standard! And you know who does it most often? Guys who would have loved to get laid often but refrained from doing it! 

You behaved in an honorable way by limiting your sexual activity to actual relationships. A good thing! But your anger suggests that if given an easy opportunity, you would have also notched up your bedpost. Unfortunately women are just catching up to men in terms of sexual freedoms and there will be some backlash.

The point I'm trying to make is, you cannot hold a persons past against them. And if you can't not do that, then you need to come clean with the next potential. And good luck with that because most women will realize immediately that your insecurities will drive a wedge through anything good.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Let her go. You don't respect her enough to marry her and spend the rest of your life cherishing her. 

I don't get why her friend's brother is relevant, what does it matter who she had sex with when she was SINGLE? 

Bottom line, if you have a problem with it and want to shame her for it then you cannot respect her, so how can you see her as a wife? Do the manly thing and just call the whole relationship off. She deserves someone who loves her for who she is, not who they wish she wasn't.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JoeJ said:


> I do feel bad. I have used those names against her a couple of times. I guess part of me was trying to shame her into feeling worse about it so I could know she has truly changed. She cried a lot and said how ashamed she was, but still won't admit some of what she did was really bad, like sleeping with her friend's brother. I guess I just wanted to know she had really changed.


For 4 years she has not cheated on you and she treats you well. She's been open and honest with you.

You thank her by trying to shame her, calling her a ****, and worse.. all because you want to humiliate and shame her.

You have also been using her for sex for a long time. She thinks that you love her and want to be with you, right? But you know that this is not true. So you have been using her.

You are what is called an emotional abuser.

Let her go. She deserves better than to be treated the way you are treating her.

If you think it's wrong to sleep with a friend's brother, I suggest that you never do it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

And you know that bro code prohibiting going after your buddies sisters...well it does NOT apply to girls going after their friends brothers...AT ALL!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

JoeJ said:


> I do feel bad. I have used those names against her a couple of times. I guess part of me was trying to shame her into feeling worse about it so I could know she has truly changed. She cried a lot and said how ashamed she was, but still won't admit some of what she did was really bad, like sleeping with her friend's brother. I guess I just wanted to know she had really changed.


Dude, really?
I mean your chick is a freak and will go vinilla on you and be this prim and proper wife for...only to have an un met need in the future marriage?

Man, I think she can change for you and year after year of missionary.....you gotta say to your self I'm I will to meet her needs?????

Alls I'm saying is your girl friend has needs and she is going to lie to *her self* to be with a good and stable man like your self and years from now you won't like what happens.

Hell I might be totally off mark here, but since you asked compete stangers, I'm throwing in my $0.02

BTW, I don't like the way you refer to sl^ts as a bad thing


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> No, you need to be honest. You felt challenged and beaten because her sexual past is more adventuresome than yours. This is what you need to work on before you go for another relationship! Cause dude, women your age are having a great time and if you can't cope with it, you better find yourself totally in love with the wallflower who you normally wouldn't think twice about.
> 
> Sl*t shaming is frankly despicable! God nothing pisses me off more because it is such a blatant sexist double standard! And you know who does it most often? Guys who would have loved to get laid often but refrained from doing it!


I have the same opinion of men who sleep around too. One of my best friends, a guy, slept around and I always told him how I thought it was gross and wrong. No double standard here.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

One more thing, does she have a kid already?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

the guy said:


> Dude, really?
> I mean your chick is a freak and will go vinilla on you and be this prim and proper wife for...only to have an un met need in the future marriage?
> 
> Man, I think she can change for you and year after year of missionary.....you gotta say to your self I'm I will to meet her needs?????
> ...


Ah, so JoeJ is a dud between the sheets?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

JoeJ said:


> I have the same opinion of men who sleep around too. One of my best friends, a guy, slept around and I always told him how I thought it was gross and wrong. No double standard here.


But you will lay in bed with this "****" for 4 years?


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> And you know that bro code prohibiting going after your buddies sisters...well it does NOT apply to girls going after their friends brothers...AT ALL!


Her friend was a guy! Nothing sexual ever happened between them. I believe her because she has literally given me a detailed list of everyone she's been with and what happened. She had no reason to lie about it.

It was still weird though.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> I have the same opinion of men who sleep around too. One of my best friends, a guy, slept around and I always told him how I thought it was gross and wrong. No double standard here.


But you are still friends with him? So...you can tolerate your best friends bad behavior or impulsive decisions but not your GF's? That's a double standard.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

the guy said:


> One more thing, does she have a kid already?


No kids, no abortions. She was very strict about always using protection and getting tested for STDs. She is brutally honest so I believe her.

She was raped before though.


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## MissFroggie (Sep 3, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> I do feel bad. I have used those names against her a couple of times. I guess part of me was trying to shame her into feeling worse about it so I could know she has truly changed. She cried a lot and said how ashamed she was, but still won't admit some of what she did was really bad, like sleeping with her friend's brother. I guess I just wanted to know she had really changed.


The way you are treating her is far more despicable than her past. Shame on you! You have used her and abused her for 4 years, calling her disgusting names and degrading her after she has been honest and respectable with you. Let her go. She deserves a lot better.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> But you are still friends with him? So...you can tolerate your best friends bad behavior or impulsive decisions but not your GF's? That's a double standard.


No, I have distanced myself from him. We rarely talk anymore.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JoeJ said:


> Her friend was a guy! Nothing sexual ever happened between them. I believe her because she has literally given me a detailed list of everyone she's been with and what happened. She had no reason to lie about it.
> 
> It was still weird though.


No one is suggesting that she lied about it. She was open and honest. Do you know how hard it is to find a woman (or a man) who is honest?

If you don't like who she is why are you still with her? What you are doing is abusive.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JoeJ said:


> No kids, no abortions. She was very strict about always using protection and getting tested for STDs. She is brutally honest so I believe her.
> 
> She was raped before though.


Can you give us a number for how many guys she has had sex with? 

How old was she when she was raped?

What impact does her rape have on your opinion of her?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Ah, so JoeJ is a dud between the sheets?


My point was can his old lady really change, I mean all the stuff OP mentioned seemed like a good time and ....well I'm just saying OPs morals aren;t in line with his old ladies morals and I suspect she will lie to her self to be with this guy...only to regret her marriage it in the future.

It had nothing to do with his game in the sack...but it is worth bringing up.

So OP how is your game in the bed room?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> No kids, no abortions. She was very strict about always using protection and getting tested for STDs. She is brutally honest so I believe her.
> 
> She was raped before though.


Holy sh!to it gets worse and worse!

You need to get on your knees and apologize and admit to being insecure and admit to having said abusive and untrue things. Then you need to help her get back on her feet and move the hell on.

You are a piece of dog doo!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

the guy said:


> My point was can his old lady really change, I mean all the stuff OP mentioned seemed like a good time and ....well I'm just saying OPs morals aren;t in line with his old ladies morals and I suspect she will lie to her self to be with this guy...only to regret her marriage it in the future.
> 
> It had nothing to do with his game in the sack...but it is worth bringing up.
> 
> So OP how is your game in the bed room?


This is all a lot of assumption on your part that a person cannot settle down and commit to a marriage long term relationship. 

There are many many stories here of both women and men who were low number or virgins when then married and they cheated.

OP's morals are not so hot either.... he has used a woman for sex for 4 years... a woman who he does not respect. Then he emotionally abuses her further by trying to shame her.


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## MissFroggie (Sep 3, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> No kids, no abortions. She was very strict about always using protection and getting tested for STDs. She is brutally honest so I believe her.
> 
> She was raped before though.


How totally insensitive and lacking in love you are! You really don't see how badly you are treating her? She was raped and that has a huge emotional impact. Shaming a rape survivor is shockingly bad. You are obviously fine with that though, perhaps you should consider a career as a defense lawyer then you'll have a chance to call plenty of rape victims *****s and sl>ts. 

You seriously make me sick. You don't have any idea how much she has trusted you with and how much she loves you to share this with you and stay with you even though you try to shame her further. She deserves so much better I can't even put it into words.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Can you give us a number for how many guys she has had sex with?
> 
> How old was she when she was raped?
> 
> What impact does her rape have on your opinion of her?


I don't want to give her number out of respect for her. It's been more than 15 but less than 30.

She was raped multiple times by a family member who also forced her to watch porn with him between the ages of 7 and 9 and then again at 21 at a party when she was passed out. She thinks she was drugged because she's not a huge drinker and said she only had like 2 beers the whole night. She is 27 now. 

Her rape does not give me a bad opinion of her. I have dated other rape victims before. She has used it as an excuse though, which bothers me. She has said "it is common for childhood sexual assault victims to sleep around and confuse sex with love." I have known several who haven't done this. I don't like when people excuse their behavior just because something bad happened to them in the past.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> No one is suggesting that she lied about it. She was open and honest. Do you know how hard it is to find a woman (or a man) who is honest?
> 
> If you don't like who she is why are you still with her? What you are doing is abusive.


My moral comment can go either way.

I think I may have used a poor choice of words (wouldn't be the 1st time).

What I'm trying to say is that the two of them have completely different views when it comes to sexuality.
One view is casual and the other is very formal


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Something here no longer passes the sniff test. You have no problem shaming her both in person and online, calling her a [email protected], mentioning that she has been raped multiple times from the ages of 7-9 but giving out how many consenting partners she has had is disrespectful towards her?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JoeJ said:


> I don't want to give her number out of respect for her. It's been more than 15 but less than 30.
> 
> She was raped multiple times by a family member who also forced her to watch porn with him between the ages of 7 and 9 and then again at 21 at a party when she was passed out. She thinks she was drugged because she's not a huge drinker and said she only had like 2 beers the whole night. She is 27 now.
> 
> My rape does not give me a bad opinion of her. I have dated other rape victims before.


For this day and age her numbers are not really that high. 

Are you counting the man who raped her as a child (over and over) and the one who raped her at 21 in those numbers?

Your girlfriend most likely suffers a lot of emotional issues from the rapes, especially the childhood rapes. You shaming her is just adding to the harm from the rape. You are continuing the job that her abuser/rapist started on her. This is probably why she has stayed with you. She's injured emotionally and does not know how fight the shame that you continue to push on her.

I feel badly for her and hope she dumps you very soon.


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## MissFroggie (Sep 3, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> I don't want to give her number out of respect for her. It's been more than 15 but less than 30.
> 
> She was raped multiple times by a family member who also forced her to watch porn with him between the ages of 7 and 9 and then again at 21 at a party when she was passed out. She thinks she was drugged because she's not a huge drinker and said she only had like 2 beers the whole night. She is 27 now.
> 
> My rape does not give me a bad opinion of her. I have dated other rape victims before.


It's not unusual for sexual abuse survivors to inadvertently choose abusive partners. It's not unusual for them to put up with the abuse when most people would have left. This is all part of secondary abuse and you are absolutely instrumental in that.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OP, you have a different view of sex then your gf does. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but the name calling and shaming is ridiculous; if this wasn't for you then you should have ended it. End it right now. She's not ashamed of it and only cries because you're an a$$. I sympathize with you, I also think there should be a connection for sex and casual sex disgusts me. I think some of my hb's past is disgusting, but i've made peace with that and would never, never, never name call to make him feel bad. Listen again: your gf doesn't have the same view of sex as you, and you can't b!tch her into having the same view. You're allowed to have different views, it just possibly makes you incompatible. You'll never get what you want from her so do you both a favor and stop wasting both of your time. Find someone that views sex like you do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

When did she start therapy?

Before or after she was 21?

If it was before 21, then why didn;t she use the tools to stay out of that sitch?

My God man please tell me at the very least she started therapy after that incitent...7 years ago!!!!!!!!!


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Something here no longer passes the sniff test. You have no problem shaming her both in person and online, calling her a [email protected], mentioning that she has been raped multiple times from the ages of 7-9 but giving out how many consenting partners she has had is disrespectful towards her? Something is really off here and I can't put my finger on it.


Her number is 23, if it really matters all that much. I guess it's anonymous anyway so this won't really hurt her or anyone else.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

the guy said:


> When did she start therapy?
> 
> Before or after she was 21?
> 
> ...


She's never been to therapy.


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## hereinthemidwest (Oct 7, 2010)

I know exactly how you feel. I dated a guy who's WIFE left him for a women. GUESS WHAT??? They are had threesomes 
(one male and two females)...SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE. Are F'n kidding me??? Then you want to cry about it. GET LOST.

I would wipe my feet and move on! Best of Luck...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> For this day and age your numbers are not really that high.
> 
> Are you counting the man who raped her as a child (over and over) and the one who raped her at 27 in those numbers?
> 
> .


I though her last rape was when she was 21...7 years ago correct?


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, you have a different view of sex then your gf does. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but the name calling and shaming is ridiculous; if this wasn't for you then you should have ended it. End it right now. She's not ashamed of it and only cries because you're an a$$. I sympathize with you, I also think there should be a connection for sex and casual sex disgusts me. I think some of my hb's past is disgusting, but i've made peace with that and would never, never, never name call to make him feel bad. Listen again: your gf doesn't have the same view of sex as you, and you can't b!tch her into having the same view. You're allowed to have different views, it just possibly makes you incompatible. You'll never get what you want from her so do you both a favor and stop wasting both of your time. Find someone that views sex like you do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She says she has changed her views and would never have casual sex again. She was abstinent for 4 months before we met (her last relationship had ended 4 months prior).


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

hereinthemidwest said:


> I know exactly how you feel. I dated a guy who's WIFE left him for a women. GUESS WHAT??? They are had threesomes
> (one male and two females)...SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE. Are F'n kidding me??? Then you want to cry about it. GET LOST.
> 
> I would wipe my feet and move on! Best of Luck...


Her cheating is not the issue. I don't feel that she has any more likelihood to cheat than any other woman.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

You have every right to think whatever you want about what a woman's sexual past means for her compatibility with you, but you have no right to drag her through the mud for it or call her names for it. If you don't think you can deal with it, then move on and find someone else. I personally have no idea whether a woman with a "wild" past is more or less capable of "settling down," but this seems like it goes beyond that, like you're actually angry and hateful toward her because of her past. You have some kind of weird complex about this thing that you need to get over, but in the meantime it's probably time you let her go.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

the guy said:


> I though her last rape was when she was 21...7 years ago correct?


She was raped 6 years ago ( 2 years before we met). She had consensual sex with her friend's brother (GROSS) 7 years ago. They are no longer friends and the brother is out of her life, as is every other guy she has dated or slept with.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> I don't want to give her number out of respect for her. It's been more than 15 but less than 30.
> QUOTE]
> 
> You haven't shown her one ounce of respect so far. The only thing you haven't done is get her finger printed.
> ...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I used to fight and hit chicks. Big time anger.
It took me 52 sessions to get my sh1t straight.

Don't even think about marriage until your old lady gets her sh1t right.
Even then her crap is way deeper then my anger issues.

Either bail or work with her to get her sh!t tightened up.

WHY IN THE HELL ISN'T SHE GETTING HELP!!!!!! wHY IN THE HELL AREN;T YOU WORKING WITH HER TO DO THIS!!!!!!

Sorry for shouting bro...thats messed up your not helping her with that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Do you realize that most CSA survivors have great difficulty maintaining sexual relationships within the confines of a trusted relationship? That her early exploits were more about her trying to take control and authority over her body?

Then you slvt shame her. More damage. More irreparable harm. 

I don't hear even a smudge of shame from you!

I need to get out of this thread.


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## MissFroggie (Sep 3, 2013)

You should look at the size of a 7 year old girl and consider just how devastating rape would be to her. The physical pain is excruciating, the blood, the tearing inside and out, the bruising from being held down. Then there is the emotional trauma, someone she should have been able to trust is doing this to her. The shame, guilt, confusion. It is totally understandable for her to have had some issues with sex and need time to work things out. The fact she has come so far without even therapy to help her is a real credit to her. She has given you an honest and loving relationship for 4 years. She has been faithful and trusted you with her deepest inner-most pain and you have turned it around and betrayed her by using it against her. You have exploited her and picked up where her abuser left off. What happened in your past that made you think being an abuser was acceptable?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

the guy said:


> I though her last rape was when she was 21...7 years ago correct?


I corrected my post.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

the guy said:


> I used to fight and hit chicks. Big time anger.
> It took me 52 sessions to get my sh1t straight.
> 
> Don't even think about marriage until your old lady gets her sh1t right.
> ...


UM, JoeJ needs help too. He needs to figure out why he is shaming her and treating her badly. He needs to learn to not do this.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I regress, at the very least make an offer to support her in getting the help she needs to work thru her issues and have a sexualy and emotionaly healthy and lasting relationship with a man.

Granted she might tell you to phuck off but at least you know were she stand in getting the help she clearly needs.

But then again sexual and emothional health my have nothing to do with this thread and you never marry your current chick.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> You should look at the size of a 7 year old girl and consider just how devastating rape would be to her. The physical pain is excruciating, the blood, the tearing inside and out, the bruising from being held down. Then there is the emotional trauma, someone she should have been able to trust is doing this to her. The shame, guilt, confusion. It is totally understandable for her to have had some issues with sex and need time to work things out. The fact she has come so far without even therapy to help her is a real credit to her. She has given you an honest and loving relationship for 4 years. She has been faithful and trusted you with her deepest inner-most pain and you have turned it around and betrayed her by using it against her. You have exploited her and picked up where her abuser left off. What happened in your past that made you think being an abuser was acceptable?


She wasn't fully raped at that age, just fondled and what not.


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## Daisy2714 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> Her rape does not give me a bad opinion of her. I have dated other rape victims before. She has used it as an excuse though, which bothers me. She has said "it is common for childhood sexual assault victims to sleep around and confuse sex with love." I have known several who haven't done this. I don't like when people excuse their behavior just because something bad happened to them in the past.


JoeJ,

Shame on you. If you have ANY KINDNESS end this relationship. You are far to judgmental and arrogant to ever truly be able to love this woman. 

She has been honest with you. She has dared to trust you (not an easy thing for a rape victim) and you have absolutely no empathy for what she has been through. So what if you've known several who didn't behave the way she did. It doesn't make her response to her trauma any less honest. She's not making excuses, she's just explaining it as she understands it. At least she understands why she behaved the way she did. 

She's way too good for you. Let her go. She obviously still has some healing to do or she would have already dumped you. Do the right thing (since you seem to be so into that) and let her move on with her life. 

Find another woman to take advantage of. You've already done enough damage to this one. Better yet... don't. You are so completely blind to that fact that you are a sexist pig it's simply disgusting!


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

Daisy2714 said:


> JoeJ,
> 
> You are so completely blind to that fact that you are a sexist pig it's simply disgusting!


How am I sexist? I hold myself and men in general to the same standards when it comes to sexual activity. I could have had 20+ partners too, but I exercised self control. She didn't.


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## Daisy2714 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> She wasn't fully raped at that age, just fondled and what not.


JUST FONDLED??? You dare to minimize it? A seven year old FONDLED and you dare to presume it's not traumatizing? 

Wow!! I think I'm going to be sick. I can't read this anymore.


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## MissFroggie (Sep 3, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> I don't want to give her number out of respect for her. It's been more than 15 but less than 30.
> 
> *She was raped multiple times by a family member who also forced her to watch porn with him between the ages of 7 and 9 and then again at 21 at a party when she was passed out. * She thinks she was drugged because she's not a huge drinker and said she only had like 2 beers the whole night. She is 27 now.
> 
> Her rape does not give me a bad opinion of her. I have dated other rape victims before. She has used it as an excuse though, which bothers me. She has said "it is common for childhood sexual assault victims to sleep around and confuse sex with love." I have known several who haven't done this. I don't like when people excuse their behavior just because something bad happened to them in the past.





JoeJ said:


> She wasn't fully raped at that age, just fondled and what not.


Oh my mistake, it's totally fine then to continue abusing her and calling her a sl>t etc. You are so oblivious to *what you are* it is shocking. I ask again, what happened in your past that makes you think it is alright to be an abuser?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

MissFroggie said:


> You should look at the size of a 7 year old girl and consider just how devastating rape would be to her. The physical pain is excruciating, the blood, the tearing inside and out, the bruising from being held down. Then there is the emotional trauma, someone she should have been able to trust is doing this to her. The shame, guilt, confusion.?


Thats why we hurt them so bad when the POS are in side. If their lucky they stay out of general pop. but if their not so lucky we will get them and hurt them very very badly...if a lifer gets to them consider it finished for the filthy POS!

Sorry for the threadjack bro.. but MF hit a nerve.

I may be a POS but when it comes to rapist and peds that crap just don't sit right with me.

Again sorry for the thread jack


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> How am I sexist? I hold myself and men in general to the same standards when it comes to sexual activity. I could have had 20+ partners too, but I exercised self control. She didn't.


LOL wow man, good for you. You're a fricking saint. What do you want? What are you asking for people's advice for? What is your goal here? What is your goal in the relationship? If you want to dump her, fine, no one here has a problem with that, in fact they think you might be doing her a favor. But it seems like you have some kind of weird urge to give a **** sermon. It seems like you're disgusted by her behavior and attracted to it at the same time. And it seems like you want to punish her for it or something. Go work this stuff out with a therapist, not with a perfectly nice woman who doesn't deserve your crap.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

Daisy2714 said:


> JUST FONDLED??? You dare to minimize it? A seven year old FONDLED and you dare to presume it's not traumatizing?
> 
> Wow!! I think I'm going to be sick. I can't read this anymore.


Poor word choice. Obviously it was painful and traumatic. I didn't mean it that way.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

John Lee said:


> LOL wow man, good for you. You're a fricking saint. What do you want? What are you asking for people's advice for? What is your goal here? What is your goal in the relationship? If you want to dump her, fine, no one here has a problem with that, in fact they think you might be doing her a favor. But it seems like you have some kind of weird urge to give a **** sermon. It seems like you're disgusted by her behavior and attracted to it at the same time. And it seems like you want to punish her for it or something. Go work this stuff out with a therapist, not with a perfectly nice woman who doesn't deserve your crap.


I am asking for advice on how to get through my feelings. I was hoping someone with a similar story decided to give their guy/gal a shot despite questionable past behavior and it worked out. Something.

I truly don't mean to lecture or to sound like I'm perfect.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

JoeJ said:


> Poor word choice. Obviously it was painful and traumatic. I didn't mean it that way.


You seem to hold yourself as some pinnacle of virtue but you are worse than she ever was. You manipulate a person in to thinking you care and love her and then chip away at her self worth little by little. A true snake in the grass.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Back to point.
No, generaly speaking on what I have read here at TAM...it is not wise to marry a chick with a sl^tty past, but as EG and I pointed out, poeple change.

The question is do they have the tools to learn how to change?


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

JoeJ said:


> She was raped 6 years ago ( 2 years before we met). She had consensual sex with her friend's brother (GROSS) 7 years ago. They are no longer friends and the brother is out of her life, as is every other guy she has dated or slept with.


Being raped can have effected her. She needs IC to make sure there are no lingering issues.

As to gross? She had sex with a GF's brother. Guy's that wind up dating their friends sister is no different and not gross.

She has not cheated on you. She has never cheated in the past.

You are gross for lashing out at her. Your problem is you can not handle a girl having a past. Go find yourself a virgin. Hypocrite.

How is it ok that you have a past?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I was raped at 14. I was very promiscuous for years. My psychiatrist explained it as that if I was giving it away, no man could take it from me. It was a control thing, something I didn't have when I was being raped. Not all rape victims deal with being raped the same way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

I also can admit she faced a lot of challenges and temptations. She has the sex drive of a man, or at least she used to. It has gone down a lot with time. But back when she was sleeping around, she had a super high drive.

She is also beautiful. She's the most beautiful woman I have ever seen in person. My friends compare her to Megan Fox and with a body "better than Kate Upton's" I let that comment slide because it came from my friend's wife. I would have been pissed if a guy said that. 

She has had photographers hand her business cards twice while we were out because they wanted her to model.

She's more interested in getting her master's degree and working on her career. 

That's what I like about her. She is not vain, materialistic or high maintenance.

But yeah she probably could have had a number in the 100s, so maybe I should rethink the "self control" thing.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

JoeJ said:


> She told me a few months in. I guess I just thought since everything else was great that I could learn to live with that one part of her life.


I agree with the others. Stop wasting her time and your time.

If you feel she is a slvt whether she is or is not that has tainted your relationship and your relationship will forever have this weakness. Meaning when things get tough and they do for all of us, this will surface.

You can feel however you do about her past. That is your choice. But you f'd up bad by waiting so long to decide this might be a p[roblem. WTF!? 

This is actually hard to believe. Not that you do not want a woman who is casual about sex when you are not BUT, it is hard to beleive at your age you have had sex with so few. But again that is your business.

So either get completely over this like right now ... or move on.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

JoeJ said:


> I am asking for advice on how to get through my feelings. I was hoping someone with a similar story decided to give their guy/gal a shot despite questionable past behavior and it worked out. Something.
> 
> I truly don't mean to lecture or to sound like I'm perfect.


Well I don't want to lecture you either if that's what you really want, but I honestly do think it's the kind of thing you'd be better off working out with a therapist -- trying to figure out why it bothers you so much on a gut level, and whether that's something you can get past or not. Because I think this is about more than just "self-control." 

For what it's worth, my wife had some wild and some painful times in her past. I would be lying if I said it never crossed my mind or bothered me at all - I think any guy has at least a hair of jealousy at the thought of their wife with other guys, even in the past. But it was never a dealbreaker type issue for me, I just never saw it that way. What mattered to me was that I could see that she was a loyal and moral and trustworthy person. It also helped to know that she had never cheated on anyone. And also I recognized that a lot of the "wild" stuff for her was actually rooted in bad times of her life that she had gotten past and wouldn't want to revisit. So that's what it was. But it never once crossed my mind to think of her as a "****" let alone call her that to her face - I shudder at even trying to associate that word with my wife.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> I was raped at 14. I was very promiscuous for years. My psychiatrist explained it as that if I was giving it away, no man could take it from me. It was a control thing, something I didn't have when I was being raped. Not all rape victims deal with being raped the same way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is interesting. What else did your psychiatrist say about this? If you don't mind sharing.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

You say 23.... like it's a bad thing. Was it all in one night??? Not even sure that would matter. She was SINGLE! 

Sounds like insecurities on your part. Like maybe you are afraid of your ranking in that pool of 24. My H says....24 might not be good enough to keep #25 from coming along?

You exercised self-control? But not enough self-control to stop yourself from degrading her for things that had nothing to do with you anyway? 

YOU are one of those guys who really shouldn't ask what a girl's number is. 

I'm thinking you have somehow benifitted from the sexual experience that she brought to the bedroom.

Just let her go. You don't really love her after all this time. You don't respect her. You talk like she is damaged goods. Not something to base a marriage on. 

You will never be good enough for her, because you can't be the HUSBAND that any woman wants feeling the way you do. And she will never be good enough for you, because she cannot undo her past in order to soothe you. 

Call it done.
*
Edited to add: To answer your question, her "bad" past is relative. It ISN'T bad to her. If she wants help, she will seek help. It's relative to you thinking it is a bad thing. There is no getting past that. You are pretty adamant in your disdain for people who enjoy sex without being in a committed relationship. If that is how strongly you feel.... then find someone else who matches your wish list.*


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I married a sl^t...I like sl^ts...it didn't turn out so well for us but we are working it out.

It was one hell of a phucking ride and alot of pain

Now that me and Mrs. the-guy are in our 40's we seemed to have mellowed out and its working. No more street fighting no more cheating were making it but it took one hard @ss road to get here!

Dude she need therapy before you even consider taking vows with this chick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JoeJ said:


> I am asking for advice on how to get through my feelings. I was hoping someone with a similar story decided to give their guy/gal a shot despite questionable past behavior and it worked out. Something.
> 
> I truly don't mean to lecture or to sound like I'm perfect.



The only way that your relationship with her will work out is if you get therapy for you being emotionally abusive to her. Find out why you seem to have a need to get involved with someone you consider a slvt and then spend years shaming and humiliating her.

And get her in therapy too. She needs to heal from the abuse and rape. She needs to find out why she's putting up with your abuse and she needs to learn how to stop putting up with abuse.

That's the ticket to the two of you making it as a couple. It will take a few years of therapy for both of you.


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## MissFroggie (Sep 3, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> I was raped at 14. I was very promiscuous for years. My psychiatrist explained it as that if I was giving it away, no man could take it from me. It was a control thing, something I didn't have when I was being raped. Not all rape victims deal with being raped the same way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





JoeJ said:


> This is interesting. What else did your psychiatrist say about this? If you don't mind sharing.


Seriously??? You want to know more??? Surely what she has said is sufficient or are you looking for evidence to call her a slvt too? "This is interesting", no it is true, accurate and absolutely horrific to go through and you have demonstrated no right to ask her for even more information. You're a disgusting abuser and you still haven't explained how you became that way!


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## MissFroggie (Sep 3, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> The only way that your relationship with her will work out is if you get therapy for you being emotionally abusive to her. Find out why you seem to have a need to get involved with someone you consider a slvt and then spend years shaming and humiliating her.
> 
> And get her in therapy too. She needs to heal from the abuse and rape. She needs to find out why she's putting up with your abuse and she needs to learn how to stop putting up with abuse.
> 
> That's the ticket to the two of you making it as a couple. It will take a few years of therapy for both of you.


I agree but also think that they should not be together during that. They both need to deal with their issues without the other in their lives...her especially.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JoeJ said:


> I also can admit she faced a lot of challenges and temptations. She has the sex drive of a man, or at least she used to. It has gone down a lot with time. But back when she was sleeping around, she had a super high drive.
> 
> She is also beautiful. She's the most beautiful woman I have ever seen in person. My friends compare her to Megan Fox and with a body "better than Kate Upton's" I let that comment slide because it came from my friend's wife. I would have been pissed if a guy said that.
> 
> ...


I have a SIL who was molested over a period of time as a child. Then in high school her prom date brutally raped her.

She took off after that. Ran away from home to NYC and just sort of drifted for years. She admits that her numbers are in to 100's.. yes plural. She was suffering from the things that a lot of abuse victims suffer from.

Then, at about age 35, she just stopped it. Today she's about 45. She's single now will not sleep around.

People change.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MissFroggie said:


> I agree but also think that they should not be together during that. They both need to deal with their issues without the other in their lives...her especially.


:iagree:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Good lord. Leave it to TAM to shame a guy for not wanting a woman who who sleeps around. I say one is best to get a compatible partner.

Some of you guys crack me up.

Do I find his story difficult to believe? Oh hell yeah. Is he being absurd? Oh hell yeah. If it is real I hope he does the right thing, but he has been doing the wrong thing for almost four freaking years.

Hey Bob ... my wife gives better BJs than your wife. No way Phil! Yes way. Ask the football team Bob. That Phil is one secure and happy guy. He does get BJs. Good for Phil. :rofl::rofl:


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## Natalie789 (Aug 24, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> Good lord. Leave it to TAM to shame a guy for not wanting a woman who who sleeps around. I say one is best to get a compatible partner.
> 
> Hey Bob ... my wife gives better BJs than your wife. No way Phil! Yes way. Ask the football team Bob. That Phil is one secure and happy guy. He does get BJs. Good for Phil. :rofl::rofl:


First off, she is not a woman who sleeps around. She is a woman that slept around in the past but changed her behavior. She has been faithful to one person for 4 years.

Second of all, your "football team" reference was mean, sexist, and stupid. And how would the football team know if Phil's wife gives better BJs than Bob's unless they have also samples Phil's wife's "talents"?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> Good lord. Leave it to TAM to shame a guy for not wanting a woman who who sleeps around.


Leave it to a guy on TAM to not see the difference between not wanting a girlfriend who has had multiple previous partners vs. a man who knew the count, continued anyways for 4 years, abusing her along the way. 

View attachment 10098


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Good lord. Leave it to TAM to shame a guy for not wanting a woman who who sleeps around. I say one is best to get a compatible partner.


No one has an issue with him wanting to a woman who has not slept around. 

The issue is with him doing things to shame her. That's what the problem is.

If he does not want to be with someone who has slept with more people than he, then he should not go find a woman who fits his criteria. 



Entropy3000 said:


> Some of you guys crack me up.
> 
> Do I find his story difficult to believe? Oh hell yeah. Is he being absurd? Oh hell yeah. If it is real I hope he does the right thing, but he has been doing the wrong thing for almost four freaking years.
> 
> Hey Bob ... my wife gives better BJs than your wife. No way Phil! Yes way. Ask the football team Bob. That Phil is one secure and happy guy. He does get BJs. Good for Phil. :rofl::rofl:


From what I've read on these forums. getting BJs is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing to most guys ... well next to porn... :lol:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Leave it to a guy on TAM to not see the difference between not wanting a girlfriend who has had multiple previous partners vs. a man who knew the count, continued anyways for 4 years, abusing her along the way.
> 
> View attachment 10098


Try rereading what I said. He ios being absurd. Is that clear?

My response it to those that try to convince guys they need a woman with a lot of sexual experience to prove that the guys is secure. Total load of crapola.
That somehow the more sex a woman has the more value she carries intrinsically into the relationship. Ummm. No. There is a middle ground. It is called compatibility. Which cover many aspects including compatible values.

His story is suspect with me because it makes little sense. He says his values are one thing but them spends four years with her anyway. I call BS. 

I think this story just creates what it has. A meaningless discussion on how valuable or not valuable sexual history is and it comes down to choices that we all have the right to have.

He should never have led her on the way he has. But he has the right to feel about her anyway he wishes.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Leave it to a guy on TAM to not see the difference between not wanting a girlfriend who has had multiple previous partners vs. a man who knew the count, continued anyways for 4 years, abusing her along the way.
> 
> View attachment 10098


Amen!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think an issue here is that OM is here asking for insight and suggestions, and a number of posters have jumped on him for not expressing his feelings in the correct and PC words and way.

He isn't a bad guy. He's someone seeking insight.

A bad guy wouldn't be here asking these questions, a bad guy would be just being nasty to her and feeling justified in doing it.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> He should never have led her on the way he has. * But he has the right to feel about her anyway he wishes*.


He does, but he has no right in trying to make her feel about herself the the way he now feels about her.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

JoeJ said:


> I am asking for advice on how to get through my feelings. I was hoping someone with a similar story decided to give their guy/gal a shot despite questionable past behavior and it worked out. Something.
> 
> I truly don't mean to lecture or to sound like I'm perfect.


Joe,
You sound like a very young inexperienced guy.
So I'll give you my experience.
I once " dated" a beautiful woman who was also a fashion model . She had a very active past .We used to have lots of casual sex, and she was good in bed. Then one day she confided in me and told me that she was raped when she was much younger. 
Immediately I cut off all sex , because I was begining to feel something for her. I arranged for her to get professional help.
We parted ways and I ddidn't see her for a number of years. I went on got married and one day I ran into her .
We had a cup of coffee, and I asked her about marriage , life etc.
She told me her marriage was in pieces. I knew she had married a guy much younger than her.
Turns out the guy was a virgin and after she gave birth to her daughter, " retroactive jealousy" [ a term I learned here on TAM ] began to kick in.
He became a serial cheater.
Yup,
That's how he chose to deal with his insecurity.

My advice to you is to cut all ties with this woman.She needs professional help and you cannot give that to her.
Find yourself a woman whose sexual past is either compatible with yours or whose past you can live with.
Every life has a story.
A marriage can only work if two people are compatible on a number of levels.

Back to my model ex gf.
Truth be told , hindsight is 20/20.
I was so in lust [ not love ] with that beautiful , hot , sexy woman, that if the opportunity had presented itself, and we had gotten more involved, I would have possibly married her.
But I was in lust , not love.
When she told me about the past abuse, I felt guilty , because I began to see myself as contributing to her problem . Imagine being married and having to deal with it , psychologically.
Today my story would have been much different.

Years later, I went on to meet and fall in love, not lust , with a wonderful woman who bluntly refused to have sex before marriage, and we eventually got married.
Today , 18 years later, we are still very much happily married and enjoying life.
Having her has taught me exactly what love is . It has also opened my eyes to some of the life altering mistakes I almost made.

You are not in love with this woman. You are in lust and are incapable of handling her problem. If you get married to her then it would become your problem too.
Amid other things , sexual compatibility between both of you does not, and will never exist under the current conditions.

Do not marry this woman.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Natalie789 said:


> First off, she is not a woman who sleeps around. She is a woman that slept around in the past but changed her behavior. She has been faithful to one person for 4 years.
> 
> Second of all, your "football team" reference was mean, sexist, and stupid. And how would the football team know if Phil's wife gives better BJs than Bob's unless they have also samples Phil's wife's "talents"?


My football reference was intended for those that take the extreme view that men should not care about a woman's sexual history. And I say that both men AND woman have every right to care.

In a very practical sense this football reference is not so far off. Most men want a woman with a reasonable sexual history. What reasonable history is, is up to that man. Not a whole lot of men want to hang in social circles where their wife is well known for ONSs or being a party girl. Or where their wife has no idea how many guys or who the guys were. I see not value in a man who is this way either.

Indeed I am going out of my way to NOT be PC because this PC attitude gets very old very fast and has NO practical value in the real world. 

I also stand by my postion that what matters is honesty. Let's assume she has been honest with him. We have no reason to doubt her honesty from the information given. I will not even play the game that some guys say to play by doubling her number. The number only matters if it matters to one or both of the partners. 

He is the one at fault here for wasting her time. She has done nothing wrong. My comments were not about this woman but about those comments where people say ... they love slvts. LOL. My wife was a slvt and and we worked through it. Well, that is really swell, but hardly something that helps this guy out.

Telling him he needs a woman with a lot of experience is dubious past a certain point. Where that point is he must decide.

But I think him continuing this relationship unless he can deal with his problem is not in either of their best interests. He must respect her. I am not judging her. Lets be clear of that. He is the one at fault all by himself.

But lets not go on about guys being insecure about women with a lot of partners. Sorry, that does not hold water. Most guys do not place a high value on a woman with a "large" number of partners. Though many on here will say they were fine with their EX wifes large number.

My comment was intended to show how absurd this is. There is no great value for a husband to be proud of his wife having a large number of partners. There is no value in this for the husband. What a large number is for him to decide. I see no value for a wife either, but many seem not to care so much.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Good lord. Leave it to TAM to shame a guy for not wanting a woman who who sleeps around. I say one is best to get a compatible partner.
> 
> Some of you guys crack me up.
> 
> ...



I have to agree here, both on your reaction to the TAMers as well as to your reaction to the OP.

I don't know anything about this guy at all. (And I also find much of his posting hard to believe, as you do.) But if I were to hazard a guess, I would speculate that he romanticizes sexual relationships. He has difficulty reconciling with the fact that his GF's past does not match his romantic ideal. 

Those that say/imply he has needs therapy/"has issues that need to be worked on" because of that stance are, I believe, way off base. In a sense, he was subjected to a type of "bait and switch" in that her past only became apparent later, after he had formed a bond (from his description, it sounds like she was no longer promiscuous when he met her). It's not necessarily a true "bait and switch" since she apparently no longer has that sort of behavior. But he must decide if he can accept that imperfection in his romantic ideal.

What is not acceptable is taking 4 years to come to this decision. It is completely unfair. It's also just plain cruelty to hurl insults and epithets toward her--also completely unacceptable.

I do not believe he will "get over this." She will disappoint him at some time in the future (being human, all married people do), and these feelings will come out again. He needs to end the relationship and find someone who meets his ideal. She needs to find someone who can accept her without reservation.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I could understand the OP more if the number was 100+, lots of non-protected sex and bad judgement with partners but 23 partners, always safe with the worst seeming to be her friend's brother?! Then he wants her to feel bad about it? Why should she? 

This is definitely a you problem and not a her problem. She's done nothing wrong. You said her sex drive has already lowered, is that what you really want? A girl who feels so ashamed about sex that she doesn't want it anymore? Please don't compare her to how other women you know dealt with their abuse, everyone is different and all go through their own way of dealing.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> Try rereading what I said. He ios being absurd. Is that clear?
> 
> My response it to those that try to convince guys they need a woman with a lot of sexual experience to prove that the guys is secure. Total load of crapola.
> That somehow the more sex a woman has the more value she carries intrinsically into the relationship. Ummm. No. There is a middle ground. It is called compatibility. Which cover many aspects including compatible values.
> ...


I was thrown by your first statement.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> No one has an issue with him wanting to a woman who has not slept around.
> 
> The issue is with him doing things to shame her. That's what the problem is.
> 
> ...


Actually EleGirl this is not correct. Some people on this board do have an issue with that. I totally get that this is NOT your perspective. So I am NOT disagreeing with you. Just those that love to talk about how this is not a man's business.

I am in full agreement with those that think he is entriely wrong and should not be shaming her. I take great exception with him feeling she is a slvt. I think that is horrible. This is why I think he is entriely in the wrong and being unfair to her.

And I used the BJ reference on prupose. But EleGIrl those French hookers give great BJs. In no way would I suggest to a man he marry a French hooker because he will get great BJs after he is married. 

Indeed I think it is wrong to assume a woman can have a "reasonabel" sexual history and does not love sex. In fact I say there are women who love sex and put a high value on it. There are women who think sex is just sex and they really do not value it very much so it is so very easy for them to sleep around. 

So I am saying there is a middle ground to this stuff. Saying that a woman has to have an extensive sexual history to be a good wife sexually is unfair to real women who value not just sex but realtionships.

I do NOT think this is a discussion about a hooker or a virgin.

I do not elieve a guy has to find a party girl in order to get oral sex in marriage. it sure sounds like it on TAM, but TAM is NOT a sample of all marriages. Many guys come here because they have a sexless marriage. Many people come here because their spouse slept around after they got married. So valuable sytuff to learn here for sure but not a standard sample to go by.

There are woan with very average sexual histories who can and do have great sex with their husbands.


----------



## Natalie789 (Aug 24, 2013)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I have to agree here, both on your reaction to the TAMers as well as to your reaction to the OP.
> 
> I don't know anything about this guy at all. (And I also find much of his posting hard to believe, as you do.) But if I were to hazard a guess, I would speculate that he romanticizes sexual relationships. He has difficulty reconciling with the fact that his GF's past does not match his romantic ideal.
> 
> ...


Agreed with everything accept the part where you say he was subjected to bait and switch.

She told him about her past pretty soon, only a couple of months into the relationship. I don't see this as an unreasonable amount of time to wait to tell on her part. Is she supposed to tell him her number of sexual partners and confess all her secrets on the first or second date? Would you tell all of your deep dark secrets on the first date? Or would you wait until you got to know the person a little better?

The only one who is getting a bait and switch is HER. He came across as a guy that cares about her and loves her, but then shamed and belittled her when he felt she wasn't feeling the appropriate amount of guilt dictated by him.

A lot of people in her position would have lied or avoided the topic. She faced it head on. That takes a lot of character.


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## Natalie789 (Aug 24, 2013)

OP, is it possible she feels a lot more guilt and shame than you think? A lot of people won't admit they feel guilty because they don't want to talk or even think about bad situations or bad things they've done.

Just a thought.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I was thrown by your first statement.


My usual spelling and typing errors?

The convoluted logic?

The extra drama in my passage?

All the above?

Me too.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TiggyBlue said:


> He does, but he has no right in trying to make her feel about herself the the way he now feels about her.


I agree.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Wolfman1968 said:


> But if I were to hazard a guess, I would speculate that he romanticizes sexual relationships. He has difficulty reconciling with the fact that his GF's past does not match his romantic ideal


Yes, and absolutely nothing is wrong with him attaching sentimental value to sexual relationships.
But his is not compatible with hers.
He should seek another woman with his values.


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## Natalie789 (Aug 24, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes, and absolutely nothing is wrong with him attaching sentimental value to sexual relationships.
> But his is not compatible with hers.
> He should seek another woman with his values.


It sounds like her values have changed. It sounds like the issue isn't her current values but her past behavior. Which is sad, because she doesn't have a time machine and can't change her past.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> My usual spelling and typing errors?
> 
> The convoluted logic?
> 
> ...


Ha, ha. No just the first part of "Good lord. Leave it to TAM to shame a guy for not wanting a woman who who sleeps around." I didn't see anybody doing that. What I saw were people upset that he would continue a relationship knowing her past and using it to make her feel badly.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Natalie789 said:


> Agreed with everything accept the part where you say he was subjected to bait and switch.
> 
> She told him about her past pretty soon, only a couple of months into the relationship. I don't see this as an unreasonable amount of time to wait to tell on her part. Is she supposed to tell him her number of sexual partners and confess all her secrets on the first or second date? Would you tell all of your deep dark secrets on the first date? Or would you wait until you got to know the person a little better?


I agree it's not a true "bait and switch", and I did qualify it in my posting. 

The OP does state that she changed, and so presumably she wasn't an obvious "party girl", when he first met her. When it's not obvious by observation or reputation, he would only find out once they had a deep enough relationshipship that she felt safe in telling him. But the flip side is that, by that time, there are bonds developed that make it harder to end the relationship. It's a kind of Catch-22. 

I can see that being a problem in many relationships, not just for the OP. I mean, unless you are in a group that goes out to bars together and you see that person taking home different sex partners, or unless you hear about it from either that person bragging or a mutual friend revealing it, how would you know that someone is promiscuous? Most times you wouldn't.

So I called it a TYPE of "bait and switch", although it clearly is not an intentional deception on the GF's part. It's an unavoidable consequence of having changed her ways.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I think an issue here is that OM is here asking for insight and suggestions, and a number of posters have jumped on him for not expressing his feelings in the correct and PC words and way.
> 
> He isn't a bad guy. He's someone seeking insight.
> 
> A bad guy wouldn't be here asking these questions, a bad guy would be just being nasty to her and feeling justified in doing it.


Yep.

But I am very glad he got this type of response.
I'm sure he's getting a proper " insight."


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I could understand the OP more if the number was 100+, lots of non-protected sex and bad judgement with partners but 23 partners, always safe with the worst seeming to be her friend's brother?! Then he wants her to feel bad about it? Why should she?
> 
> This is definitely a you problem and not a her problem. She's done nothing wrong. You said her sex drive has already lowered, is that what you really want? A girl who feels so ashamed about sex that she doesn't want it anymore? Please don't compare her to how other women you know dealt with their abuse, everyone is different and all go through their own way of dealing.


Dang a couple of years ago I contrived for the fun of it, a formula. LOL.

Well 23 at age ... 30. The number does not tell the story here. I would want to know the type of relationships and what this person went through in their life and what would be great would be to see a maturing process.

Me. I was very sheltered in high school. I am a recovering Catholic. So I essentailly ran away to the Navy and played that role for all it was worth. I still think I had values but I was pretty easy. I did not chase women per se. But I could be a lot of fun. From 18 to almost 23 is went through a wild time and then I realized this was not what I wanted out of life. I did lose a relationship because of my past. Arguably more than one. But basically I had compatible values but not compatible history. Ok fine. 

So what am I saying? If a person shows a maturing process I think that is important. I would be very skeptical of anyone who only ever had ONSs. I find that downright creepy. I think there is great value in that you can have an LTR and have good sex in the LTR. I think it very risky if someone is not mature enough emotionally to have an actual relationship or that sex is only satifying when it is casual. One has to view the whole person.

So one can argue that this woman has been faithful to him for four years and that he is really a jerk for thinking she is a slvt. I have a hard time arguing against that.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Natalie789 said:


> It sounds like her values have changed. It sounds like the issue isn't her current values but her past behavior. Which is sad, because she doesn't have a time machine and can't change her past.


Yes.
But therein lies the problem.
The " issue" exists in his mind, and person's perception is their reality.
The only solution is for them to part ways, she find someone who can handle her past.
Marriage is serious business, not a guinea pig for gender politics nor 
"pop "constructivism.
No amount of shaming him or coercing him, or expressing anger at him could make him feel differently about her past.

*Would she be willing to do anything it takes to help him get over his issues?*
Cause that's the only way it can work.
And THAT'S the million dollar question nobody here's asking.

He should absolutely NOT marry this woman.
Neither should she marry him.

EDIT. May I also add that he should at lest be willing to admit that he was wrong in his treatment of her, and willing to let go of his RJ issues.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ha, ha. No just the first part of "Good lord. Leave it to TAM to shame a guy for not wanting a woman who who sleeps around." I didn't see anybody doing that. What I saw were people upset that he would continue a relationship knowing her past and using it to make her feel badly.


I have to go along with Entropy here. 

I saw a few posts where I thought it was implied that he basically needed therapy because of his not wanting a woman with that kind of past--the word "insecure" was used a lot. What's wrong with just saying he has idealistic beliefs about sex/romance? Another post implied outright that he was a hypocrite for having a male friend with a past but hesitating to marry a girlfriend with a past. (Which is a patently ridiculous statement. I might have friends who practice a different religion or have different politics, but could at the same time want a shared background for my spouse.)

So, no, I agree with Entropy. There was a bit of piling on the OP here.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ha, ha. No just the first part of "Good lord. Leave it to TAM to shame a guy for not wanting a woman who who sleeps around." I didn't see anybody doing that. *What I saw were people upset that he would continue a relationship knowing her past and using it to make her feel badly.*


No doubt I scanned and picked on something a couple of people said and felt like flying off the handle.

I have never done that before. 

What you posted in red I agree with completely. The true issue is the way he is handling this.

His story would make more sense if she had just told him recently. Even then I would beat him up for not getting transparency sooner. That waiting this long was very unfair.

You know from past discussions my biggest emphasis is on honesty between two people. And basically it is he who has been dishonest or at least in denial. 

I do not know how you can love someone who has been a good partner and then feel they are a slvt. That creeps me out. I find that so sad and hateful. I get the attitude of him wanting someone more compatible. But it bothers me that he let this go on. IF she indeed loves him this is very cruel. But I think if he really feels this way it would be worse to continue the lie. Can he get over this? I don't know. But if he stays with her he needs to be completely over it and it can never be thrown in her face.

I have my values but at a certain point either I love the person or I do not.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I have to go along with Entropy here.
> 
> I saw a few posts where I thought it was implied that he basically needed therapy because of his not wanting a woman with that kind of past--the word "insecure" was used a lot. What's wrong with just saying he has idealistic beliefs about sex/romance? Another post implied outright that he was a hypocrite for having a male friend with a past but hesitating to marry a girlfriend with a past. (Which is a patently ridiculous statement. I might have friends who practice a different religion or have different politics, but could at the same time want a shared background for my spouse.)
> 
> So, no, I agree with Entropy. There was a bit of piling on the OP here.


I said that he needed therapy, not because of insecurity, but because he seems to have a need to shame her.

If he thinks she is a slvt then he needs to end the relationship. 

He came here to ask how to make her more ashamed of herself. Not a good question to be asking. Apparently he thinks that in order for him to accept her as she is, she needs to be more shamed.

But he wants to know how to continue the relationship. Since shaming her is not going to work to fix things, if he wants to continue the relationship and have a healthy one... they both need counseling/therapy. 

The healthiest solution is for the two of them to go their own ways. He can find someone who he does not think is a svlt. She can find someone who can love her for who she is.


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## MissFroggie (Sep 3, 2013)

Natalie789 said:


> Agreed with everything accept the part where you say he was subjected to bait and switch.
> 
> *She told him about her past pretty soon, only a couple of months into the relationship*. I don't see this as an unreasonable amount of time to wait to tell on her part. Is she supposed to tell him her number of sexual partners and confess all her secrets on the first or second date? Would you tell all of your deep dark secrets on the first date? Or would you wait until you got to know the person a little better?
> 
> ...





Wolfman1968 said:


> I agree it's not a true "bait and switch", and I did qualify it in my posting.
> 
> The OP does state that she changed, and so presumably she wasn't an obvious "party girl", when he first met her. When it's not obvious by observation or reputation, he would only find out once they had a deep enough relationshipship that she felt safe in telling him. *But the flip side is that, by that time, there are bonds developed that make it harder to end the relationship.* It's a kind of Catch-22.
> 
> ...





JoeJ said:


> I have been dating my current girlfriend for 4 years, and I do love her and have a desire to marry her. The relationship doesn't have too many problems, but her past is holding me back from popping the question.
> 
> I am 33, and I have only had sex with 3 women in my entire life, including the current girl friend. I'm ok with sex before marriage (obviously), but I believe you should have a strong connection before having sex. * I knew each woman for months before sleeping with them.* I have turned several women down for sex. All of my past girlfriends have been similar to me. The last woman I dated had only slept with one guy and refused to sleep with me before marriage.
> 
> ...


She told him within a couple of months, he does not sleep with a woman until he has been with her for months, so she probably told him before they had a sexual relationship. She's not pulling a fast one, he did by leading her on that he was okay with her past and accepted her, then changing his mind and shaming her and calling her repulsive names because he doesn't think she feels bad enough already. If he is being honest about when she told him and how long he takes getting to know someone before sleeping with them he cannot hold it against her that he had become attached. Telling someone this after only a couple of months is exceptionally trusting of her and demonstrates a very strong desire to leave her past behind her and build a good relationship. He should never have dragged this out or been abusive towards her...and when he started down the line of belittling the abuse she suffered at the age of 7 it stirred up something in a lot of us. Who says it's not that big a deal just because she wasn't raped at that age? Being touched etc and forced to watch porn during the formative years and while so young and vulnerable (especially by a family member too) is horrific abuse. Anyone who says otherwise is either a paedophile or a paedophile sympathiser. If someone 'just fondled' my child I'd have them six feet under before the cops would have come out to take statements!


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I could understand the OP more if the number was 100+, lots of non-protected sex and bad judgement with partners but 23 partners, always safe with the worst seeming to be her friend's brother?! Then he wants her to feel bad about it? Why should she?


Well, the feeling bad about it, I think, is because he wanted to believe that she now has the same ideals about romantic sex that he does. Maybe I'm reading in too much to his posts, but I think that may be his reasoning.

But according to the Kinsey institute, only 3% of women age 30-44 have had 21+ sex partners. So, I'm not sure of your use of 100+ as a large number accurately reflects the US female population.

Reference:

The Kinsey Institute - Sexuality Information Links - FAQ [Related Resources]


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> I do not know how you can love someone who has been a good partner and then feel they are a slvt. That creeps me out. I find that so sad and hateful.


Some people just need a whipping person to lash. He is getting something out of shaming her. If he wasn't, he wouldn't do it. Now what that something is can only be speculated upon.


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## JoeJ (Oct 16, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> She told him within a couple of months, he does not sleep with a woman until he has been with her for months, so she probably told him before they had a sexual relationship. She's not pulling a fast one, he did by leading her on that he was okay with her past and accepted her, then changing his mind and shaming her and calling her repulsive names because he doesn't think she feels bad enough already. If he is being honest about when she told him and how long he takes getting to know someone before sleeping with them he cannot hold it against her that he had become attached. Telling someone this after only a couple of months is exceptionally trusting of her and demonstrates a very strong desire to leave her past behind her and build a good relationship. He should never have dragged this out or been abusive towards her...and when he started down the line of belittling the abuse she suffered at the age of 7 it stirred up something in a lot of us. Who says it's not that big a deal just because she wasn't raped at that age? Being touched etc and forced to watch porn during the formative years and while so young and vulnerable (especially by a family member too) is horrific abuse. Anyone who says otherwise is either a paedophile or a paedophile sympathiser. If someone 'just fondled' my child I'd have them six feet under before the cops would have come out to take statements!


I already said the "just fondled" was a poor choice of words and acknowledged how traumatic this would be for anyone. It came out the wrong way. 

I feel very horrible about what happened to her. I could kill the guy. She wont' let me confront him.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I said that he needed therapy, not because of insecurity, but because he seems to have a need to shame her.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Well, I didn't mention any poster by name. There were many that used the word "insecure", and I feel that was piling on (along with other posts). Apparently, so did Entropy.
> ...


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## Natalie789 (Aug 24, 2013)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Well, the feeling bad about it, I think, is because he wanted to believe that she now has the same ideals about romantic sex that he does. Maybe I'm reading in too much to his posts, but I think that may be his reasoning.
> 
> But according to the Kinsey institute, only 3% of women age 30-44 have had 21+ sex partners. So, I'm not sure of your use of 100+ as a large number accurately reflects the US female population.
> 
> ...


I don't believe those studies. Anyone can lie and people do all the time, even when it's anonymous. 

I'm not saying 21+ number is common. But I bet it's more than 3%.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Well, the feeling bad about it, I think, is because he wanted to believe that she now has the same ideals about romantic sex that he does. Maybe I'm reading in too much to his posts, but I think that may be his reasoning.
> 
> But according to the Kinsey institute, only 3% of women age 30-44 have had 21+ sex partners. So, I'm not sure of your use of 100+ as a large number accurately reflects the US female population.
> 
> ...


I think we need to look at life from modern birth control forward. There are also many other social reasons why number would be much higher now than then.

But is is interesting that many women who ague for women with a large number have 10 or less partners themselves.

I am not saying 10+ is a large number but I think a very typical number for many women is 10 or less.

Age has a lot to do with this stuff. Careeres factor in, in various ways. Some professional women date a lot of men over the years and for whatever reason do not have a lot of true LTRs but they are sexually active. This is true for many men. 

Then there are those that men and women who lead their lives one ONS to the next. Their choice. They could end up with a lot of partners.

But imagine a man or a woman. 30 years old. With 10 to 20 partners total. ALL of them being ONSs. Wow. That would be very sad. 

You know I tease my wife sometimes. And arguably I am wrong. But I tell her that she has had way more sex in her life than I have. She tells me there was me and her EX husband and that is it. Ok. I choose to believe that. It is plausible. She seems to be honest. LOL. She tells me that I should not be so sure of that and that I should be clear that the sex she had before me was not so great. Is she honest or being nice? Idunno. I never give it a thought to be honest.

Anyway. The Kinsey report is all well and good but it is very dated.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Da [email protected] did I just read?!


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I don't know what that was. Some people who post on TAM crack me up!

Sometimes I even crack myself up.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Some people just need a whipping person to lash. He is getting something out of shaming her. If he wasn't, he wouldn't do it. Now what that something is can only be speculated upon.


This is a important observation. When a person holds onto something negative... it's because that negative thing is serving a purpose. Usually it held onto because it gives them power in the relationship.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Anyway. The Knisey report is all well and good but it is very dated.


I am open to other scientifically collected data (as opposed to "Our COSMO Readers Poll Shows.."). I don't have any particular concern one way or the other, but I do always insist on trying to be accurate if possible. 

As far as very dated...well, I suppose, if you think 2005 is dated. At that time, the average for females age 30-44 was 4. (Not sure why the Males' average for the same age group was higher though...hooking up with some "Mrs. Robinsons" on Social Security?)

From the same Kinsey page:

Number of Partners:

Males 30-44 report an average of 6-8 female sexual partners in their lifetime (Mosher, Chandra, & Jones, 2005).
Females 30-44 report an average of 4 male sexual partners in their lifetime (Mosher, Chandra, & Jones, 2005).


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I am open to other scientifically collected data (as opposed to "Our COSMO Readers Poll Shows.."). I don't have any particular concern one way or the other, but I do always insist on trying to be accurate if possible.
> 
> As far as very dated...well, I suppose, if you think 2005 is dated. At that time, the average for females age 30-44 was 4. (Not sure why the Males' average for the same age group was higher though...hooking up with some "Mrs. Robinsons" on Social Security?)
> 
> ...


Kinsey has always fascinated me. If I could hazard a guess as to why the partners seem low, it's because they don't take marriage in to consideration. People get married around 26-28 now so assuming fidelity, that number stops after meeting the marital partner. A person who never marries in that age group would have a much higher number but most people do marry, good or bad. My twin sister is 42, never married by choice and her number is probably 21+ but she is not the "norm" sort of speak. The Kinsey numbers tend to line up although this study is a tad dated but the principle stays the same. People marry and thus their numbers do not continue to grow.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ha, ha. No just the first part of "Good lord. Leave it to TAM to shame a guy for not wanting a woman who who sleeps around." I didn't see anybody doing that. What I saw were people upset that he would continue a relationship knowing her past and using it to make her feel badly.


That and the fact that he was actually being shamed for shaming his GF who he'd been sleeping with for 4 years knowing her past...and not taking the opportunity to extricate himself from what he couldn't cope with. He took the coward way out and instead shamed her. That's what he was being flamed for! And he deserved every solid bit of it!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I was shaming TAM. 

Shame on me for that!!!


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## Wise Fairy (Sep 17, 2013)

JJ

This gal told you early on about her past, she trusted you with her most intimate information then you hurled words at her. 

Just because you only had a few partners, doesn't mean everyone is the same we all come with a past and baggage. 

Forgiveness can do wonders I hope she can forgive you actually for call her a s... putting shame on her awful. 

If you can't live in the present or the future then that's a problem. Too many of us live in the past and hold grudges, and don't let go of things we should. 

Time to put the c..p in a box and hurl that out the window and live for who she is now. 

If you can't then very sad. 

Peace


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Da [email protected] did I just read?!


I though I was reading a excerpt from the emotional abusers handbook or something.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I am open to other scientifically collected data (as opposed to "Our COSMO Readers Poll Shows.."). I don't have any particular concern one way or the other, but I do always insist on trying to be accurate if possible.
> 
> As far as very dated...well, I suppose, if you think 2005 is dated. At that time, the average for females age 30-44 was 4. (Not sure why the Males' average for the same age group was higher though...hooking up with some "Mrs. Robinsons" on Social Security?)
> 
> ...


Cosmo readers aside, I was born in 1955 and I can tell you things have changed over time. And no I have not published a study. But there is not reason to believe the data is the same as it was in 1953. I guess if I were to publish something it could start ... Dear Penthouse.

That said, Bright Eyes makes a very solid case for why number tend to cap. It does make me wonder though if people in general get married later in life than they used to. There are more women in careers now ... outside of the home.

Birth Control has had a great impact on sexual attitudes. There are more women in college than ever. There are more women in the work force. There are more liberal attitudes towards sex period. On and on.

60 years ago is a very long time. I see the study as maybe putting a relative value in place.

I agree we cannot go by TAM statistics as the avergae penis size on TAM is between 7 and 8.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I was shaming TAM.
> 
> Shame on me for that!!!


LETS FLAME ENTROPY!!!!! :FIREdevil:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I am open to other scientifically collected data (as opposed to "Our COSMO Readers Poll Shows.."). I don't have any particular concern one way or the other, but I do always insist on trying to be accurate if possible.
> 
> As far as very dated...well, I suppose, if you think 2005 is dated. At that time, the average for females age 30-44 was 4. (*Not sure why the Males' average for the same age group was higher though...hooking up with some "Mrs. Robinsons" on Social Security?)*
> 
> ...


The males are hooking up with women under 30 as often as they can, even when the men are in the 30-44 age bracket.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The males are hooking up with women under 30 as often as they can, even when the men are in the 30-44 age bracket.



You would think that, but then when that cohort of females under 30 advances to the 30-44 bracket, their numbers should approach the males of that bracket. But they don't. Not sure why.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

TiggyBlue said:


> I though I was reading a excerpt from the emotional abusers handbook or something.


I thought the "Now you've shown your hand" was a nice touch. Yeah, how horrible that you have shown her exactly what you are so she can make her own decisions instead of keeping it all hidden so you can manipulate her and slowly chip away at her soul.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Cosmo readers aside, I was born in 1955 and I can tell you things have changed over time. And no I have not published a study. But there is not reason to believe the data is the same as it was in 1953.


OK, I think I see why you think it is "dated." 

The link I posted was to the Kinsey Institute, not just to the original 1953 (?) study. The Kinsey Institute (which I think is at Indiana University) does ongoing reasearch. The website (and I linked to the FAQ page) therefore reflects that ongoing research and, presumably, summarizes not only their own data, but that of other researchers, since they cited the authors for each factoid.

The FAQ page reflects ongoing work; it's not frozen in 1953.


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

It has already been said, do her a favor and let her go. She deserves better.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Wolfman1968 said:


> OK, I think I see why you think it is "dated."
> 
> The link I posted was to the Kinsey Institute, not just to the original 1953 (?) study. The Kinsey Institute (which I think is at Indiana University) does ongoing reasearch. The website (and I linked to the FAQ page) therefore reflects that ongoing research and, presumably, summarizes not only their own data, but that of other researchers, since they cited the authors for each factoid.
> 
> The FAQ page reflects ongoing work; it's not frozen in 1953.


I could have sworn the data you linked was from 2005. Still a tad dated but certainly not 1953 figures which would be vastly different. The marital age back then was around 22 and I imagine very low sexual partners due to that.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Wolfman1968 said:


> You would think that, but then when that cohort of females under 30 advances to the 30-44 bracket, their numbers should approach the males of that bracket. But they don't. Not sure why.


Maybe they married them.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Wolfman1968 said:


> OK, I think I see why you think it is "dated."
> 
> The link I posted was to the Kinsey Institute, not just to the original 1953 (?) study. The Kinsey Institute (which I think is at Indiana University) does ongoing reasearch. The website (and I linked to the FAQ page) therefore reflects that ongoing research and, presumably, summarizes not only their own data, but that of other researchers, since they cited the authors for each factoid.
> 
> The FAQ page reflects ongoing work; it's not frozen in 1953.


My bad then. It does say they are updating from 2010. Then I agree this is not dated information. Many people do quote the old studies. But I see you are not.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I could have sworn the data you linked was from 2005. Still a tad dated but certainly not 1953 figures which would be vastly different. The marital age back then was around 22 and I imagine very low sexual partners due to that.



One factoid that I quoted (average number of partners) was from 2005.

The FAQ page is a summary of all sorts of facts, with citations/references from different years.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wolfman1968 said:


> You would think that, but then when that cohort of females under 30 advances to the 30-44 bracket, their numbers should approach the males of that bracket. But they don't. Not sure why.


The numbers are averages.

Perhaps most women have numbers in the 1-2 range. So men driving up their own numbers with a small subset of women who are banging anything the breaths.


-or-

A large number of those sex partners for the males are other males. 


-or- 

They asked a population that does not represent the general public

-or-

everyone lied, males and females

-or-

The study is just academic nonsense

-or-

All of the above.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> The numbers are averages.
> 
> Perhaps most women have numbers in the 1-2 range. So men driving up their own numbers with a small subset of women who are banging anything the breaths.
> 
> ...


I thought he said the womens numbers didn't increase to that of a woman who is older, I didn't think he was talking about men? My only conclusion to that would be the 30-40+ year old men married the early 20 something women so therefore she never had a chance to increase her number.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The numbers are averages.
> 
> *Perhaps most women have numbers in the 1-2 range. So men driving up their own numbers with a small subset of women who are banging anything the breaths.*
> 
> ...


You are sounding like an Engineer now.

If there was an error I am betting men over stated their number and women understated theirs. Was it a significant amount? Probably not. 

I would also think that men's number are skewed where a realtively small number of men have a very large number of women. For the average woman finding someone to have sex with is much easier than for the average man. Don't make me get into sex rank.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> You are sounding like an Engineer now.
> 
> If there was an error I am betting men over stated their number and women understated theirs. Was it a significant amount? Probably not.
> 
> I would also think that men's number are skewed where a realtively small number of men have a very large number of women. For the average woman finding someone to have sex with is much easier than for the average man. Don't make me get into sex rank.


Yes, but if a few men have a large number of women, it should still average out the same for both sexes, because then the typical woman would have many more partners than the typical man in that scenario.

For example, think of a cohort of 10 women and 10 men.

To be extreme, we will say that one woman has partnered will each of the 10 men. The other 9 women have no contacts.

The average number of partners for the men are: 
1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 10 divided by 10 men = 1 each

The average number of partners for the women are:
10+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0 = 10 divided by 10 women = 1 each

Comes out the same for the AVERAGE.

The MEDIAN would be different between the two groups, though.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

JoeJ said:


> Her number is 23


Double it.

You shouldn't have called her a ****, but you also shouldn't feel bad for the way you feel. You are not going to get over it and she's not going to give you the closure you need. Ignore the folks that are calling you insecure etc. You just aren't compatible. That's what dating is about.

Just leave her. It's not going to work.


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## loving1 (Aug 5, 2013)

Look I personally wouldn't date anyone with a "high number" either but there's NOTHING bad or immoral about a high number. Just means you guys have different views on sex that probably aren't compatible. If you can't let it go leave this poor girl. Jesus. She doesn't need someone she loves calling her names. Disgusting.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I get how the OP feels, he feels like she's had so many before him that there's no way he can be particularly special. I felt this way as well with my hb for a long time. There were so many before me that I felt like one in long line. He doesn't know how close I was to ending things several times, though I never would have shamed him over it. It also didn't help that he made a point of talking about it a lot, which is something I finally put a stop to. I've made peace with it though because he does everything to make me feel like I am special, and now that he doesn't talk about his exes anymore I've been able to move past it, at least most of the time. I think the issue is that he wants to feel special to her and he doesn't because he's just number 24. The key is to make yourself understand that you are very special, in ways nobody before you was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

JoeJ said:


> I also can admit she faced a lot of challenges and temptations. S*he has the sex drive of a man,* or at least she used to. It has gone down a lot with time. But back when she was sleeping around, she had a super high drive.


So you are saying that, in your opinion, a "super high sex drive" is exclusively male? And this "high sex drive" (which you infer is the reason behind her "sleeping around") has now diminished, and you are happy about that? 

Well, aren't you the lucky one, not having to deal with her "super high drive" since for the past 4 years she seems to have "settled" for you.

As others have pointed out, her past is not about her "sex drive". There are emotional and psychological reasons for her past which were not based on passion. She told you the truth of it, and you responded with name calling. You demeaned her honesty and it appears that you are happy with her ability to deny her own sex drive in order to conform with your beliefs.

If you can't accept her "as is", then let her go. It seems to me that she is trying very hard to tone down her sex drive for you, to comply with your feeling. She has proven herself to be faithful to you through the 4 years you have been together, and yet you still hold her past against her. Let her go. Let her meet someone who will accept her and love her "as is".


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

She shouldn't marry you. You are judging her very poorly. People can definitely change for the better, which it sounds like she has.


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

JoeJ, you have an ocd disorder called retroactive jealousy. It will continue to chew away at your insides. Taking it out on her is not fair and you will eventually drive her away. Dont talk to her about it, when you trigger or get mad, dont take it out on her. This is your issue not hers. Try to find a therapist and get past this and find a way to cope. Or leave her be and find someone that has the same moral code as you do.

Thunder7, samyeagar, thor, RClawson, this is the kind of sh*t I was talking about a week or so ago when trying to address these kind of issues.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Wolfman1968 said:


> But if I were to hazard a guess, *I would speculate that he romanticizes sexual relationships. He has difficulty reconciling with the fact that his GF's past does not match his romantic ideal. *
> 
> Those that say/imply he has needs therapy/"has issues that need to be worked on" because of that stance are, I believe, way off base.


 I couldn't agree more with this.. his personal values and the sexual lens he looks through IS the "*Romantic View"* of sexuality...explained here.....seems her physical beauty infatuated him early on...and with the sex, they have bonded ..... 



> *3. ** Romantic View *~
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does this FIT you, is this HOW YOU look at Sex ...how it is supposed to be? And if so, there is nothing wrong with this... but now you have a dilemma where you and the one you have fallen in love with...may not be on the same page... do not allow anyone to belittle this.. .or call you insecure for feeling as you do..our sexual views are ingrained in us... though these CAN change over the years... we learn from our hardships in hindsight...also very common... many times what we did in our past, is NOT something we would want our children to endure, we would want to spare them ... in this way, for marriage, being united with another person ..it IS important to be "on the same page".. it is almost like RELIGION... 

We have a friend who is a swinger.. (not our lifestyle by any means) ...ya know I would never marry a man like that, but we can be friends...laugh together, he can tell us some stories.. .and all that, but the raising of children together...being united in our values... given the differences...would simply NOT MESH ! 



> It's not necessarily a true "bait and switch"* since she apparently no longer has that sort of behavior. But he must decide if he can accept that imperfection in his romantic ideal.*


 ...she has demonstrated , even through his shaming no less.... her commitment to YOU JoeJ...given herself for the last 4 years only to *one man*... so this has to account for something... 



> *What is not acceptable is taking 4 years to come to this decision. It is completely unfair. It's also just plain cruelty to hurl insults and epithets toward her--also completely unacceptable.*


 This too... every one of us deserves to be loved and cherished for who we are ...and understood for our imperfections...and where we missed it in the past... I am ALL for 100% honesty...and trying to empathize with other people... I give her credit for NOT hiding the truth, carrying secrets...as so often IS the case in todays world -which comes back to haunt...

Better to get it out on the table, weigh the pros & cons, and overcome... You also must take into consideration her being Raped, or* fondled* at the tender age of 7-9 ... how this could mess with a young girls psyche...without walking in her shoes... one can not relate to this pain....she should have had therapy then. 

We have a friend -this happened to 2 of her girls by an Uncle , these ages, therapy immediately.. the youngest was drawing pictures of her secret PAIN with locks on her mouth...because he was threatening her to not tell, or he'd hurt the parents.. ... she dealt with it through her drawings to some degree.. .but your GF ....please understand,* has taken a DETOUR ...to what might have been.* had she had a normal loving upbringing without being molested in her innocence... 

Your issues are more -after this...you see her as making excuses...to excuse her behavior..I do wonder if you have a communication breakdown in this. She is not giving the script you want from her.. to convince you she is not that woman any more.. I don't know. 

This post by Pidge gives some insight to something the vast majority of us will NEVER understand , but I bet your GF can >> 


pidge70 said:


> I was raped at 14. I was very promiscuous for years. My psychiatrist explained it as that if I was giving it away, no man could take it from me. It was a control thing, something I didn't have when I was being raped. Not all rape victims deal with being raped the same way.





JoeJ said:


> I also can admit she faced a lot of challenges and temptations. She has the sex drive of a man, or at least she used to. It has gone down a lot with time. But back when she was sleeping around, she had a super high drive.


 Combine this with wanting to FEEL LOVED... do you know if this was her aim? is she ROMANTIC, the type that wants to attach and attach badly but she fell into choosing men who just USED her and threw her away? There is one poster here who could relate to your situation.. you will find some of his story on this thread.. which also could help you >>

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/128314-retroactive-jealousy-i-have.html



> *JoeJ said:* She is also beautiful. She's the most beautiful woman I have ever seen in person. ....
> She has had photographers hand her business cards twice while we were out because they wanted her to model.
> 
> She's more interested in getting her master's degree and working on her career.
> ...


 What you say here makes her sound like a hell of a catch! Materialistic & high maintenance is a pretty common complaint of men today... Despite her past, even your shaming, she has picked herself up...and has shown honorable goals & a plan for her future...and sounds she wants it WITH YOU ....yes, she could have had 100+ men given the model looks you describe here..

Again, what do YOU posses that other men before you didn't? ...that she remains with you...tied for the last 4 yrs?

Outside of this issue you struggle with...can you tell us more about your compatibility? I tend to feel there could be HOPE for this relationship....depending... 

You are getting your ass beat on this thread for being a near abuser... but it seems your woman doesn't think so.. or she would have walked... 

I did a thread on the 6 primary sexual views... Explained here >>

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...exual-views-have-they-changed-over-years.html

...we all have them and they can be different... the foundation of each is fundamentally DIFFERENT ... this doesn't make you any less of a decent person for feeling as you do (holding the Romantic view of Love & Sex go hand in hand)..... or Insecure (which many love to throw at us who feel this way).... it is in the staying with another while belittling them, and judging them (as this is against the Love we profess)...that is the problem here...-this is not healthy and will destroy you both.. 

This needs put on the table and worked through...if you want to stay with this woman... I wish you well.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> So you are saying that, in your opinion, a "super high sex drive" is exclusively male? And this "high sex drive" (which you infer is the reason behind her "sleeping around") has now diminished, and you are happy about that?
> 
> Well, aren't you the lucky one, not having to deal with her "super high drive" since for the past 4 years she seems to have "settled" for you.
> 
> ...


I'm confused a bit by parts of your post.

How exactly is he holding her against her will?

He has not cheated on her, so why is her fidelity even an issue?

Isn't fidelity expected of BOTH partners in a committed relationship?

Why hasn't she decided to leave him after FOUR years?

Why would she " settle " for him , if all her other partners treated her so well and were probably much better than him in bed?

I think people are jumping ahead of themselves and simply " filling in the blanks " here , because quite a lot of background information is missing.

I can't see any emotionally healthy woman or man staying in a relationship where that type of dynamic occurs.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lordhavok said:


> JoeJ, you have an ocd disorder called retroactive jealousy. It will continue to chew away at your insides. Taking it out on her is not fair and you will eventually drive her away. Dont talk to her about it, when you trigger or get mad, dont take it out on her. This is your issue not hers. Try to find a therapist and get past this and find a way to cope. Or leave her be and find someone that has the same moral code as you do.
> 
> Thunder7, samyeagar, thor, RClawson, this is the kind of sh*t I was talking about a week or so ago when trying to address these kind of issues.


:iagree: This is KEY!!!!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Troll Folks. Move along!


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## KAM1959 (Aug 28, 2013)

Well a primary key to LOVE is forgiveness if your holding her past up maybe you love isn't real. Well all have baggage, for example have you ever lied, stolen something or anything else wrong. 
If you really love her her past is there in the past and all you can consider is her today in the present. Is she still a "wild girl"? 
In short we all screw up do you really want people to hold yours against you?


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

KAM1959.. This is a troll thread.. Fake.. Made up.. Fictitious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

JoeJ said:


> I also can admit she faced a lot of challenges and temptations. She has the sex drive of a man, or at least she used to. It has gone down a lot with time. But back when she was sleeping around, she had a super high drive.
> 
> She is also beautiful. She's the most beautiful woman I have ever seen in person. My friends compare her to Megan Fox and with a body "better than Kate Upton's" I let that comment slide because it came from my friend's wife. I would have been pissed if a guy said that.
> 
> ...


I googled those two women's images.

A woman that pretty is going to have a hard time to have a low number only because guy's from 8 to 80 have been pursuing her.

Based on looks then you are lucky to have a woman that pretty. Then she's pursuing an advanced degree. So brains also.

She has not cheated on you.

So from the number issue you should get some IC. Yes it is not a single digit number though it is not 50 or 100.


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