# I'm going to take my daughter and leave...feedback appreciated.



## Sarah_R (Feb 26, 2011)

Ladies, I have plans to up and leave the house with our 3 year old daughter. My husband has cheated on me over and over again since the 5 years we have been married. I have always taken him back and tried to work on this marriage. When it happened again back in December, I realized that I can't try to rebuild the trust over and over again. He is such a drain in my life. I have a Masters degree and a career and I feel that I'm better off without him. 

I plan on getting a rental for my daughter and I, and will leave when he is out of town for work. I just need to be away from him and he won't leave the house. He knows I want a divorce, but he doesn't think I will leave. In the meantime he is really going out of his way to piss me off. It's pretty childish and I need to get away from him. I had consulted a lawyer and she said it's okay for me to leave and whether I have to pay him money for the mortgage is a gamble with the courts. Usually the courts won't push it if there is no equity in the home. Due to this economy our home is not worth much and would cost us to sell. I plan to put the house on the market and hope to at least break even in a sell. I'd really like to get our divorce done through mediation and with help from our church marriage counsellor. 

Anyone have any thoughts or advice on what I am about to do?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Ladies, I have plans to up and leave the house with our 3 year old daughter. [sic: blah, blah, blah, blah, drama, drama, drama, the world doesnt' give 2 hoots]
> I plan on getting a rental for my daughter and I, and will leave when he is out of town for work.


Yes.

I have some thoughts.

What you are about to do is damaging to your daughters psyche and heart.

Hook, line and sinker.

And your lawyer is a knothead.

And any sane Judge would not look kindly upon that specific action.

Good luck.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

What does the lawyer say about his rights as the dad? What makes you think that he won't take the child from you? Why leave secretively, unless he is a danger to you. I have seen where the woman leaves with the child, and the man comes and takes the child. 
Ask your lawyer before leaving, you do not want to go thru the turmoil of him taking the baby. He knows that's the one thing that will crush you.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

If you feel you are in danger then a secretive move is warranted, but if it's just to avoid conflict then it's not the right thing to do. Lot's of people get divorced, and there is process for it. Tell him your intention to move out, serving divorce papers and starting to negotiate child custody is the appropriate course. 

Avoiding conflict doesn't make it go away.


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## notaname (Feb 4, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> If you feel you are in danger then a secretive move is warranted, but if it's just to avoid conflict then it's not the right thing to do. Lot's of people get divorced, and there is process for it. Tell him your intention to move out, serving divorce papers and starting to negotiate child custody is the appropriate course.
> 
> Avoiding conflict doesn't make it go away.


This.

You can move yourself to your daughters room if there isn't a spare room in the house.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I can understand where you're coming from...my first husband refused to give me a divorce, but we had a child together, so I had to go about it a different way as to not jeopardize myself in a divorce proceeding and child custody.

If you have a lawyer - tell HIM/HER what you are planning to do.

Any lawyer worth a grain of salt will tell you that up and disappearing with YOUR child (this is not just YOUR daughter, it's his too and he has rights) is the right thing to do - then fire them.

Not only are you putting yourself in a situation where YOU will feel the wrath of the courts for taking off with YOUR child, it might help him get into a viable position to give you a run for your money on custody issues.

Also, like Scannerguard, I agree: this is the WRONG thing for YOUR daughter.

The issues with cheating, etc., are between you and your husband not between your daughter and her daddy. One has nothing to do with the other unless he is abusive to the child. She has the right to the attention, love and care of BOTH parents - not just you because you gave birth to her - without him - she wouldn't exist either.

"You have to love your daughter, more than you hate your husband." While your needs are important, the needs of your child are too and she deserves her daddy.

Bad idea - tell him you're leaving, he doesn't have to agree, set up some type of temporary visitation for your daughter and then leave. He can't keep you in the home unless he stays home from work and watches you 24/7.

He doesn't HAVE to give you a divorce, you are more than capable of divorcing him.

But please - do not put your daughter in the middle. Your suggested plan does exactly that.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Wow, I had no idea the courts were so horrible to a woman who has been with a man who admits openly to infidelity?

You have nothing but support from over here. I've no idea how you've put up with it for as long as you did.

I don't know much about the legalities but I really think you need to get a lawyer and file for a separation. If he has cheated on you then that is a reason to end the marriage. I am writing this under the assumption that you have not been unfaithful in the marriage.

As to your child, she will adjust. I am of the personal opinion that she is better off not growing up in a powder keg of a home and will do better if she can maintain the relationship with both of you as separate parents with you having custody if you have been her main caregiver.

Either way, I'm sorry this has happened in your life and wish you nothing but the best in your future.


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## Sarah_R (Feb 26, 2011)

Okay...here's a little more details. I am the primary caretaker of my daughter even though I work 3 days a week. He has a job that takes him to other States for a period of time plus he is in the reserves and drills one weekend a month. He tells me the night before when he is flying out for work - basically dumps it all on me. He withholds giving me money to pay the bills...and when he does, he gives it to me at the very last minute. He picks fights with me in the house around our daughter. There is also a history of mental illness in his family and I have a feeling he has depression. He medicates daily on melatonin pills to go to sleep and then takes stay-awake pills to wake up in the morning. Since I have been married to him, he has not made one friend - except for the female ones he finds on line. He basically has no male friends in the area. He has changed jobs 4 times in the last 5 years - was let go from two. People probably look at me and wonder why I am with him. I've been clinging to HOPE that he would change and the DREAM of the marriage I wanted. Our house is going to take a long time to sell and I don't know if I can manage in the house with him anymore. Sounds like you are all saying that it's best for me to stay and go through the divorce living in the same house together. How can the courts say that is in the best interest of a child to see that mommy and daddy don't talk to each other or look at each other, argue, and have been sleeping in separate bedrooms for the last 2 years?


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm not saying stay in the house. I'm saying follow the correct process. I'm not aware of any law stating you have to live together during a divorce, but taking the child without telling him could be considered child abduction. He has parental rights which you need to respect. Consult a lawyer on how to go about it. But don't stay if you can't stand being around him.

I'm not an expert here tho, so curious of other's thoughts.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

This is why you need a lawyer. They can best advise you of the laws in your state. But I wouldn't take my daughter anywhere until I sought the advice of a competent attorney. 

I have the address the melatonin issue..melatonin is a supplement. It's not an illegal drug..it's not even a prescription sleep aid. It's been very helpful for those who suffer with insomnia. I know this first hand.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes, talk to a lawyer about getting a legal separation as you wait for divorce (if that is how it works in your state). Otherwise, you can file for divorce and have a temporary order determining who lives where, financial and custody/placement details, etc (which is like a legal separation but isn't called that). It depends on your state. In my state, for example, you can have a final divorce decree in about 4 months (if you file a joint petition, which is a document you both agree on). In the interim, you can get a temporary order if you need it to hash out the details of living until the final decree is in place. In my state, a legal separation is used as an end in itself (God knows why, haha) and is not a "step" required in the divorce process. Basically, it is for living separately if you are still working on the marriage and can be converted to a petition for divorce if that's what you decide. But in some states, you must be "legally" separated for a certain amount of time before a decree is granted. 

Do not just disappear with your daughter; not only is it just plain wrong (unless you fear he will turn violent), but it can be so damaging both to her and to your outcome in the divorce. If he will not leave the home, then tell him--in the presence of others--that you are leaving with your daughter and you will be staying wherever it is you will be staying. Make sure to give him contact information (phone, email). Leave after you tell him--and don't let your witnesses leave until you do. He cannot accuse you of kidnapping if you have told him where his daughter will be, and I am guessing--but clarify with a lawyer--that neither of you is guilty of "abandonment" of the child in this situation. You have a legal right to take your daughter even though he has a legal right to keep her;most reasonable people (ie, like a judge) would agree that she is better of with you, as the primary care giver, during this interim stage until the court determines custody and placement. Do not attempt to deny him access-even equal access--to his daugher unless you fear he will endanger her. 

With his work schedule, it makes sense that you have primary custody, but get it worked out with a lawyer to make sure that even upon your initial departure, you are not doing anything to damage your status in the court's eyes when it comes time to get the divorce. Courts do not take kindly to people using kids against their partner, and you want to avoid any appearance of that.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Leaving like that can be termed "abandonment" in regards to the marriage not the child and it gives him some ammo against you in court. 

The mortgage - while a judge can't make you help pay - the mortgage company doesn't care either way. If your name is on the mortgage, getting divorced doesn't remove it. Even a quit claim deed won't satisfy the bank. You are still responsible for it or your credit will take a hit.

Your daughter needs this to be as stable as it can be. She doesn't need to feel put in the middle. She needs mommy and daddy to put aside the anger and make this split as amicable as possible - at least in anyways that effect her.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, I had no idea the courts were so horrible to a woman who has been with a man who admits openly to infidelity?


Trenton,

No, the courts are horrible to people (man or woman) who doesn't follow the process and just up and take a child in secret and removes them from the only home environment they've ever known.

That's why I am saying her lawyer is a knothead. . .I am not sure what he is thinking.

The only thing I am thinking he/she may be thinking is yeah, the lawyer can always say, "Um, this guy was violent, your honor" and take that angle in court and exaggerate things and whatnot.

You women at the Ladies Lounge, because you have two breasts and a vagina, do have that advantage in court. . .courts will always look a little crosseyed at men and assume the man to be guilty until proven innocent.

In that, courts can be horrible to men.

BUt think about this - you have basically just went on public record with your daughter saying your father is violent. Think about the spiraling consequences of that years and years down the road.

To the OP - get used to this idea - in a no-fault state (which most states are), the courts don't give a rats pittootie if the woman screwed the entire NY Yankees and the man screwed every Las Vegas Rockette.

The Judge has heard it all before.

Forget about you - the courts only care about the kids and the taxpayor.

And then go from there.

I don't think your lawyer is advising you right (unless we don't have the whole story) to give you the blessing to just up and remove your daughter without so much a notification to the father.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

One thing though, I did get to have quite a few good conversations with my attorney (mental thanks to my attorney during my divorce).

He did say that many times his clients will say, "My attorney said it was okay to do this." when he knows he never said such a thing.

I will go and pose the question to him:

Would you defend me for free (!) in court, if I secretly take my daughter while my husband is away on duty and move away to an undisclosed location, with only a history of depression and irregular job performance behavior?

If he says yes, well, he's the attorney, not me.

It may pay to get a second opinion though.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Scanner, I was surprised by your lack of support to the OP's feelings is all. You seemed almost angry by her suggestion. I do appreciate you giving up the legal experience though because obviously it's really complicated.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Trenton,

I was "almost angry" at the suggestion taht she take her daughter from her father and her home.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Trenton,
> 
> I was "almost angry" at the suggestion taht she take her daughter from her father and her home.


I got that. I'm thinking it might manifest from personal experience which is cool as that's where most of our emotions come from. I feel in this case though, if you gain some objectivity, you can see that the man is an a$$ and she and her daughter do deserve better. Not that the man shouldn't be allowed to be the little girl's father or have a say but that his cruelty, infidelity and disregard for his wife is not a fair situation for the wife to be in.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I never suggested she not pursue a divorce civilly.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I know Mr. S, but your anger over her suggestion to leave with daughter without telling the husband made your post seem heartless to her plight. Now please do put that bathing suit back on and streak across the Ladies Lounge again.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I think most of us can sympathize with someone who is living with a cheating, etc., spouse, who then won't do the decent thing and leave so the injured party can stay in the house. It makes for a tricky situation, but sneaking out with the child is not the solution. Telling him and starting legal proceedings is the only way to go. "Abandonment" is leaving for a certain period of time w/o legal proceedings; "legal separation" is a legally sanctioned separation (duh!). Ideally, one knows ahead of time how long s/he can live away from home before s/he can be charged with abandonment (and that varies state by state). If you file a petition for legal separation, or the equivalent, however, I suspect that moving out at the time of filing would not be considered "abandonment" b/c of the high risk involved with having to live with someone you have just filed against. 

Honestly, I think the OP is better off filing for legal separation and asking to remain in the house (for her daughter's sake), and getting a court-sanctioned order to get him out. But if she can't wait that long (and lord only knows how long it might take, although courts are pretty good about issuing temporary orders to prevent an unsafe situation from arising), then moving as she files would be a good idea--and telling him, both in person w/witnesses and in writing.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Honestly, I think the OP is better off filing for legal separation and asking to remain in the house (for her daughter's sake), and getting a court-sanctioned order to get him out.


Now. . .why shouldn't he be allowed to come into the house that he is on the mortgage, maintains, upkeeps and parents from?

I am once again always endlessly fascinated with the entitleistic mindset.

( as I age, I grow more Republican. . .kinda scary. . .it's just that Republicans don't streak across Ladies Lounges in bikini thongs )


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Now. . .why shouldn't he be allowed to come into the house that he is on the mortgage, maintains, upkeeps and parents from?
> 
> I am once again always endlessly fascinated with the entitleistic mindset.
> 
> ( as I age, I grow more Republican. . .kinda scary. . .it's just that Republicans don't streak across Ladies Lounges in bikini thongs )


I disagree that her divorcing will damage her daughter. Her husband/child's father decided LONG ago what level of pain that child would feel by cheating. He made that call on his selfish own. I will agree with you however that unless he is physically abusive, I don't understand why he should be forced out of his house. Perhaps Sisters was referring to an MSA in which both agree it is better for the child to remain in the home?
Sisters is spot on when she mentions abandonment. Courts don't take this lightly. Go through a mediator to get an MSA in place an then decide if you move out or he does. Protect yourself cause Lord knows your "husband" isn't protecting you!


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Scanner, because he is a butt with attitude and whether that butt is male or female, we don't support the butt with attitude, we support what is the right thing to do. That's called non-gender justification.


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## Sarah_R (Feb 26, 2011)

Okay...Scanner, I never said I was going to secretly take my daughter away and hide her from him. I'm going to take my stuff and move out and then tell him I'm gone and this is where I am staying and he is more than happy to see our daughter when he wants. I plan to move very close to her daycare (which is on an army installation) and his place of work. He is never home anyways. And like I said, he tells me the night before when he is going out of town for work, leaving me with all the childcare responsibilities. In fact, I did tell him to not be surprised if I am not here when he returns. His major concern was me paying my percentage of the mortgage. He can take his stupid percentage equation and percentage himself in the house by himself. What ever happened to a marriage being teamwork? Sorry for venting.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, let's apply I think it was famous moral philosopher Immaneul Kant's "universal rule" to this equation:

If it is okay that Sarah just "take her daughter" (not secretively) but without agreement and without the fathr's blessing to a disclosed location and then dictates. . ."Here she is. . .you can see her when you want." then it would be okay for men to do this to women as well, right?

Just yank them from their mother?

In fact, society would still be cohesive if we all just behave as this (the Kant moral rule), right?

Just do what we think is right at the time?

If so, cool!!!! First one to the kids wins, right? 

PS: Abandonment is a strict criterion to meet. The guy or gal has to totally leave, not communicate, not finanically support, not be involved at all. Just moving out does not equal abandonment. I moved out but coparented infrequently and made household support payments. IN no way was I close to meeting the definition of abandonment.

Think what the root of the word means - abandon. That's like leaving a puppy by the road or something. It does NOT sound like he has done this. He just sounds like he's a cheat.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

You see, this is why the Ladies Lounge needs me.

I remember watching a long ago B Movie with Tom Cruise in it. . .it was fantasy movie, which are usually pretty bad, but it was actually not a halfbad movie. In it, there are a pair of unicorns - a male and the female, in which the world's health rests upon.

The villian captures the male unicorn and the world descends into chaos. He is after the female unicorn in the movie, in which he says the real power rests - the ability to give life. Symbolically, the writers of the movie assigned the roles to the unicorns that was "yin" and "yang."

Moral of the story: Without a Rooster in the henhouse, there is no order here.

Now, which one of you hens wants to roost with me?


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Sarah_R said:


> Okay...Scanner, I never said I was going to secretly take my daughter away and hide her from him. I'm going to take my stuff and move out and then tell him I'm gone and this is where I am staying and he is more than happy to see our daughter when he wants. I plan to move very close to her daycare (which is on an army installation) and his place of work. He is never home anyways. And like I said, he tells me the night before when he is going out of town for work, leaving me with all the childcare responsibilities. In fact, I did tell him to not be surprised if I am not here when he returns. His major concern was me paying my percentage of the mortgage. He can take his stupid percentage equation and percentage himself in the house by himself. What ever happened to a marriage being teamwork? Sorry for venting.



Reading your 1st post it did come across as if you were planning to sneak away and hide. 

Sounds like you have your mind made up, got a plan, talked with lawyer. Best wishes to you.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> You see, this is why the Ladies Lounge needs me.
> 
> I remember watching a long ago B Movie with Tom Cruise in it. . .it was fantasy movie, which are usually pretty bad, but it was actually not a halfbad movie. In it, there are a pair of unicorns - a male and the female, in which the world's health rests upon.
> 
> ...



Sorry Scannerguard, but that would be more like letting the fox into the henhouse than a rooster.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I absolutely disagree with Scanner anyway. I don't think, I know, if a man was in the same position or even a different one where he was being taken advantage of horribly, my advice would be exactly the same as would my compassion. 

Major Misfit...LOL


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## Sarah_R (Feb 26, 2011)

I do appreciate all your comments. I know I would not like it if my husband up and left with my daughter. However, I never did anything wrong. Anyway, as I said, he is not giving me money to pay the mortgage or the bills and I do not make enough to cover it all. My concern is getting a place of my own before he causes us to default on the house mortgage and ruins our credit. I guess that is why my lawyer said it was okay for me to leave, however she was not advising me what to do...just letting me know my options. Thanks again for all your comments.


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## notaname (Feb 4, 2011)

Put the house up for sale.


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