# Shut Out



## naturalist (Feb 10, 2011)

I have been dating a man for four years now. During that time, it has been a struggle for me to feel satisfied with the amount of time and attention he's giving to me. 

When we have lived near to each other, the time he gave to me was limited due to both or our work/school schedules. I'd look forward to the summer months and holidays/vacations, as times when things would be slower and we could enjoy eachother's company more. He has chosen to use that free time to travel, sometimes for months at a time, and pursue his own interests. Finally, he decided to move to another state entirely, and we have attempted to continue dating despite the distance.

On average, I would say we usually talk 3-4 times a week. I am most often the one calling, leaving messages, sending texts and waiting for a reply. When he can talk, he's usually quick to get off the phone because he's busy or whatever (I'm talking like 20 minutes). 

I am not satisfied with this, its making me feel lonely, unsupported, unimportant and embarrassed by my need/desire for him. So, I've tried a number of strategies to address this problem. Early on, it was easier to approach him with fairness/empathy about why he was more distant than i expected from someone who I know and believe loves me so dearly. 

This last time, I was quick to get angry and I was way over emotional when I brought up the issue. I apologized by text message, and called to explain my outburst, but he won't pick up my calls or reply. Its been two weeks now and I've heard nothing. 

I understand that I screwed up by losing my cool during our last argument, but what does someone expect after years of needing more and not being heard? The silent treatment is unbearable, and its exactly what I have been trying to change about us--getting rid of the distance. 

Am I in a relationship with someone who loves me but is just not open enough emotionally to really share love/life with another person? Or have I just been pushing him away? 

What can I do with all of these varied emotions I'm feeling, when I can't get any engagement/conversation/resolution from the man himself?

Thanks for any insight, 

Emotionally spent.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You aren't his priority. This last emotional burst of feeling just proves that you are not a priority. 
When my wife has theses out bursts of emotion I recognize her hurt and see her crying out, I want to help her heal. Your relationship with your bf is the oppisite he has no intent in helping you heal. i see no love there.

I suggest you stop focusing your attention on him and focus it on your self. Finding happiness through him is a lost cause, but finding happiness with how you get over this relationship is a true test of perserverince.

Its not what knocks us down that counts, its how we get back up that matters.


----------



## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

You've just described my situation exactly. I also feel unsupported and lonelier now than I did when I was single. I also feel ashamed at the way I make myself available all the time to my boyfriend and essentially do all the pursuing; I feel weak and pathetic and used. I think you would be wise to heed "The Guy's" advice. Any man who's worth his salt will be empathetic and tuned into his partner's needs.


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

Sorry you're going through this, but please read my response to a similar post here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...n/21675-unavailable-boyfriend.html#post250964

This guy is a douche. He likes being chased and leaving you hanging. He relishes in the control he has over you, and now because you had a normal human reaction to being ignored and got upset, he is passively agressively punishing you by giving you the silent treatment.



naturalist said:


> This last time, I was quick to get angry and I was way over emotional when I brought up the issue. I apologized by text message, and called to explain my outburst, but he won't pick up my calls or reply. Its been two weeks now and I've heard nothing.


He is a control freak, selfish and emotionally abusive. He even has you second-guessing yourself and saying you were "over" emotional. No, you weren't. It is perfectly normal to have basic needs in a relationship with someone who claims to love you. It is perfectly normal to get upset when you feel these needs are repeatedly ignored. It is NOT normal to disappear for two weeks, leaving someone that loves you in the cold. It is extremely cruel and emotionally abusive. 

The Silent Treatment - A severe form of abuse

Toxic Men and Toxic Relationships

He will of course come back, as soon as he thinks you've suffered enough, as soon as he gets some pleasure from the tearful voicemails you've left him, and as soon as he knows you're broken and will do anything not to have him punish you again.

*Love is not supposed to make you feel this lousy.*

*Run far *and *run fast *from this man.


----------



## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Hun... after 2 weeks of no communication... he is no longer your BF. Before losing it, you should of done your own testing first. See what happens if you didn't reach out to him first. That would of saved you a lot of time/anguish as you would have noticed that it would of taken him 3x as long to reach out to you, as the other way around. Don't text him anymore, don't call him - move on. Only way i'd ever consider dealing with him again is if he called me wondering what was wrong and offered an apalogy for not getting back to you. Other than that, i'd forget about him.


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

Rob774 said:


> Hun... after 2 weeks of no communication... he is no longer your BF.


:iagree:

He might not see it that way when he eventually comes back (pretending nothing happened or saying that he was just 'cooling off'), but you better make sure that this is the case. Judging from what you've said, he is used to being top dog in this relationship and expects you'll stick around even when he treats you like [email protected] Habits like this don't break easy.


----------



## naturalist (Feb 10, 2011)

Thank you for your thoughts--they're very helpful! 

Myopia & Loren: Its nice to hear that someone else is struggling with 'the silent treatment.' Honestly, it is unbearable. I would much rather have a nasty fight and break up, then endure this waiting and assume that he's over it. 

In general: I have spent time in therapy before, and learned some tactics about listening and honoring each other's words, etc. So, its been important to me to consider my partners' position, before just saying "F*** that guy" whenever there's an issue. Anyway, the greatest issue between us has been the two-sides of this coin.

Also, unlike Myopia story, I KNOW this guy loves me. He shows me in ways that are sweet and considerate, just not as often as I need, esp. when it comes to talking. So, I know that when I ask for more from him, he gets angry, because he feels like the gestures he does make are ignored or unappreciated. I know he feels like he's always failing me, because I am not happy with what he does give.

So, this compounds the problem, obviously. I definitely don't want to make him feel ****ty or unappreciated. But I fear, that by voicing my needs, I'm causing, in part, to push him away.


----------



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

naturalist said:


> He shows me in ways that are sweet and considerate, just not as often as I need, esp. when it comes to talking. So, I know that when I ask for more from him, he gets angry, because he feels like the gestures he does make are ignored or unappreciated. I know he feels like he's always failing me, because I am not happy with what he does give.
> 
> So, this compounds the problem, obviously. I definitely don't want to make him feel ****ty or unappreciated. But I fear, that by voicing my needs, I'm causing, in part, to push him away.


i had to deal with this dilemma in my marriage also. My H did sweet things for me but still i was not happy. sometimes i would feel guilty about being unhappy, but id still feel unhappy. things got very complicated. 

i had a couple epiphanies that rectified the situation. one, i was way too needy. i had no respect for his boundaries. and two, he wasnt doing what i needed. I worked on not being so needy anymore. i backed off and matched him emotionally. if he didnt want to talk, we didnt talk. if he was distant, i was distant. that's a little bit of an emotional yo-yo and wont work for very long. eventually you have to learn to trust how you feel and do things to protect your heart.


----------



## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Well, you're going to have needs in ANY relationship. You shouldn't have to worry about pushing him away for voicing those needs. If he truly loves you, he'd be working with you to figure out a way that you both get your needs met.

This silent treatment is passive/aggressive behavior. Don't be fooled that nice things he does or says is love. You have to SEE what he's showing you. Two weeks is a long time. That would speak more to me than anything else he could say.


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

major misfit said:


> Two weeks is a long time.


And counting... Has he made contact yet? If you are still calling him, you're feeding his ego.

The test of his 'love' for you is how he acts when he returns. Chances are he's going to pretend that he did nothing wrong, and continue to project this image (that you have now internalised) of you as some harpie that is pushing him away. It will be all your fault. And your issues with the relationship that caused this outburst in the first place will be skillfully deflected. Are you sensing a pattern here? He is showing you right now that your needs and basic human right to be acknowledged come second to him. 

Right now if you are still attempting to make contact he feels vindicated so this torture might stretch even further than two weeks... Maybe he will decide that he's so hard done by you don't deserve him anymore, and will never call you back, dropping out of your life forever. Will you still be claiming he 'loves' you then?

I would stop calling him altogether, and start thinking about yourself a bit more. Is this something you would tolerate for your friends? How would your parents feel if you told them about this treatment of you? Just because someone says 'love' it doesn't mean you should take that as gospel. Weigh the evidence. Love is a verb, what is he DOING?


----------



## naturalist (Feb 10, 2011)

No, nothing yet... In the last week, I called once... not too bad huh? Getting there.

I don't think I'm needy, but I do feel guilty. I feel guilty for losing my temper. I feel guilty that we're fighting, and not working together like best friends. I feel guilty for letting it get to this point, instead of walking away sooner.


----------



## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

The fact that he picked up and moved to another state and spent months at a time traveling when he could have been spending that time with you tells me that you were never, at any point, a priority to him. Unless you left out that he invited you to join him in his travels or to move with him and you were unable to, both of those were situations where he did what he wanted with no thought to you, OR he thought about you and decided to do it anyway. Either way, they were things that cut you out of his life in some way. 

You say you know he loves you because he shows you in sweet ways just not as often as you want, and that your most important need, talking, is going unmet, even though you've made clear to him you need that. I'm not sure what the sweet ways are that you refer to, but I will say that buying things or saying the words is not an indication of love. Love is proven by action: by asking or figuring out what your partner needs and wants and providing that for them to the best of your ability, by being there, by consulting them on major decisions (moving to another state?), things of that nature. 

My boyfriend is a truck driver, so our relationship is essentially long distance. We communicate mostly by phone. We have our disagreements, and there are times when we are upset enough that we feel it necessary to get off the phone with each other until we calm down. It is NEVER for weeks, or even days. It's a few hours at most. It's taking a few hours to think about what happened and what was said and how to calmly approach the subject so we can resolve it instead of arguing about it. If he didn't call me for 2 weeks, I would assume that we broke up; I would think it a very childish, immature way of ending things, especially since there are children involved (mine, not his, but everyone is very attached to each other), but a break up nonetheless. 

If I call or text him when we've taken that few hour break, I do it ONCE. That's it. One phone call, one text to say "hey, I'm ready to talk now." lets him know that I am ready when he is. He might not yet be ready. If I call or text repeatedly, it's only going to make him angrier and not lead to him calming down and calling me back; plus it makes me look desperate and pathetic. I love him dearly, and I want to spend the rest of my life with him, but I am not desperate. If we broke up, my heart would be broken, but I would eventually move on and find happiness again, so I refuse to act as though it would be otherwise. 

By making yourself look desperate with the repetitive texting/calling, he knows that you'll be there waiting whenever he's ready to come back. So, now, he can go off and date some other women if he wants, and if he decides he wants to be with you again, he can just call you up and things will go on as they always have. Is that what you want? I know I wouldn't. I would want to be with someone who loves and respects me, and that is not acheived by allowing him to think I will be sitting alone, waiting for any scrap of attention he might send my way. I would want someone who respects that my time is valuable and feels honored that I choose to share some of it with him, as I would feel about him. 

At this point, you have made clear countless times what you expect/want/need from him; he still doesn't give you what/as much as you need. This will not change just because you keep talking about it. It's time to realize that what he is giving you now is all he will or is capable of, and since it's not enough for you, this relationship is not the right one for you. 

Sometimes love really just isn't enough. Especially when that love is, at least mostly, one-sided.


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

naturalist said:


> I don't think I'm needy, but I do feel guilty.


It's natural that you feel guilty, because you have a little thing called empathy and you're worried (whether rightly or wrongly) about having 'hurt' the person that you love.

Do you think he is feeling guilty about how he is treating you now? 

This relationship has been one-sided from the get go. 

Good on you for not calling again. Let's see if you can generate some more of that strength and self-preservation, and not leap back into his arms the minute he remembers your number.


----------



## naturalist (Feb 10, 2011)

Thank you all for your words; they are helping. 

atruckersgirl: you're take is right on. I really appreciate it.


----------



## naturalist (Feb 10, 2011)

Also, I would love to send him this thread by email, as my last effort. Any thoughts on that?


----------



## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

Wow, ATruckersGirl you really nailed it! I have been guilty of all of those things too...texting and calling repeatedly, all the while knowing that I just look desparate and pathetic. It's almost an impulsive act and I despise myself when I do it.

Naturalist, this man's actions suggest that he does not value you, regardless of the few "sweet" things he might do. In fact, (and I don't mean to insult you here) he might be doing just enough to keep you hanging on while he explores his options. You're being strung along. Also, DO NOT send him this thread. First of all, this should be your private support system, and sharing that with him will violate your sanctuary here. Secondly, in my experience, it won't do any good. I used to send my boyfriend relationship articles, etc., in the hope that he would see my perspective and change. He had no interest in those things because he didn't care at all about the relationship. In fact, sending him things usually backfired on me. I would be accused of "attacking" him or trying to categorize and label him. If a person doesn't want you and is sending clear signals to that effect, there simply isn't anything you can do to change their minds.


----------



## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

By the way, my boyfriend is pulling the same passive agressive silent treatment right now too. He's currenly mad at me because I wanted to talk about what was bothering me. He believes, therefore, that I don't respect his boundaries and that I have no consideration for how "busy" he is. Of course, he is ALWAYS busy and always has boundaries, so everything is on his terms. I haven't heard from him in two days and have had no response to texts and messages. I'm pretty put out about it and it's only been two days! I can't imagine being treated like that for two weeks. Like TruckersGirl said, the silent treatment is an indication that this is a very, very immature and selfish man who cannot deal directly and honorably with people. He is avoiding you because he isn't interested, but he doesn't have the guts to tell you. 

In my case I told my boyfriend that he could have some time to compose himself, but that I needed to hear from him before Sunday. If he wants to break up with me, he needs to tell me like an adult, not leave me waiting and guessing. It's phenomenally childish to do something like that! You have to stand up for yourself. At some point you have the right to know what is going on...it isn't a crime to ask that question of your partner and expect a direct response.


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

Sorry you're both dealing with these passive aggressive men. They have most likely learned this behaviour in previous relationships where women have cried and chased after them. Quick question -have either of them told you a story about a 'crazy ex'? ...The sad fact is, it's nothing new to them. All this pain and anguish you feel is part of their daily drama. You are now just another (ex?) girlfriend. That's how they're treating you - commodities for their enjoyment, rather than individuals who deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. They can pick you up and put you down as they please.

I wouldn't send the thread, as the fact that you have been talking this through in depth with strangers will just feed into his ego trip. I would cease all contact and start re-routing your thinking. He is the one that is pushing YOU away with his behaviour. He knows how much this is hurting you and he apparently doesn't care, so it's time to stop caring in return. That is far easier said than done, and you might cry an ocean, but your dignity will not only make you stronger, it will make your stock go up. Before long he will wonder where the doormat girlfriend went, and wonder why his usual 'tricks' aren't working, then start sniffing around again. Hopefully by then you genuinely will not want him. Hopefully you will both realise that someone who toys with your emotions this way is not loving, but controlling, and hopefully this realisation will allow you to stop enabling this behaviour.


----------



## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

Loren,

You are essentially describing a narcissist. I've had two now (including this one) and they are unbearable. I just read the Silent Treatment and Toxic Men link you posted and...wow! Both of those describe my guy. Great links! And, yes, of course all his ex's are crazy or at least at fault for everything. He left his first wife for another woman right after their son was born because he was feeling neglected and trapped and was not getting enough sex (ironic that he can't empathize with my feelings of neglect though).


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

Myopia, I'm happy you read them, and I hope you can learn from this and read the signs going into your next relationship. 

I know you have said you are scared to move on but can you really exist in limbo for the rest of your life? Everything is on his terms, even now. Your "ultimatum" to him is phrased in a seemingly assertive way but essentially you're saying that he has until sunday to let you know if you're dumped or not... and HE is the one in the wrong!

Some people, like yourself and naturalist, are giving by nature, but you mustn't let this be to your detriment. Abusers target giving personalities, woo them and hook them. Once they know a person is hooked they switch back to their true manipulative and controlling selves. Learn to be more selective, and distinguish the ones who care from the ones who are taking advantage.

Sorry for the thread jack naturalist, but this applies to your situation as well. He has shown you signs all the way through the relationship but you have still been blindsided and devastated at 4 years in. It's not your fault, as the cold and dismissive moments in your relationship were interspersed with moments of kindness. It's disorientating. You want to believe the sweet guy you love is still there. You crave the kind attention he once showed you, and he knows this. That's how he kept you hooked, by drip-feeding you sweetness for 4 years. He is knows this is the ultimate punishment for you. These types of men are only interested in 'winning'. Forfeit the game. If you refuse to play it means you are no longer their plaything.

Here's a link on judging love reationships that I hope will assist you both in future.

Judging Boyfriends and True Love: Free Counseling Advice


----------



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

naturalist said:


> Also, I would love to send him this thread by email, as my last effort. Any thoughts on that?


I would say no just because it seems like more pushing on your part. but if you feel you need to do it before you walk away, then maybe its ok.


----------



## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

A man who truly loves a woman isn't going to go two weeks with NO contact. I ran this past my sweetie, and his immediate words were "he's either done with her, or he's playing a game he shouldn't be playing". Either scenario isn't good...I'd take myself off the playing field with this particular man.


----------



## naturalist (Feb 10, 2011)

Hi everyone, 

I was speaking to my mother about the issue here, and she was adamant that what is happening is 'abuse.' I'm pretty hesitant to use that word, but she really tried to drill it into my head. 

I'm more prone to think that I want an emotional connection and fought him for it in nice and not so nice ways, and probably stayed too long. Whereas, I think he is not interested/open to an emotional connection and gets scared by confrontation, so retreats. To me, it seems like a mismatch in our values/communication. I.e. we're both to blame. 

Do you guys think this is matter of being incompatible or abuse?

Thanks.


----------



## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I think we tend to think of abuse in the physical sense. The emotional aspect is more insidious, and just as destructive. Some would say even more so. You are playing a game you won't win. 

Passive/aggressive people aren't compatible with anyone who is healthy emotionally. I can't define whether his behavior is abuse per se, b/c I don't have enough to go on...but it sure the heck sounds like it from what limited knowledge I have. What he's doing is apparent to anyone not so close to the situation. 

I hope you realize you're better than this. Because you are.


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

It's abuse 100%. If you read the links I sent you earlier in this thread you could see that, and you could also see that blaming yourself is part of what he wants you to do.

Unless you like pain and humiliation you're not likely to be compatible with someone abusive.


----------



## naturalist (Feb 10, 2011)

Hi Loren: I did read those links, which is part of the reason I asked the question to the forum and I don't see any explanation for why this is abuse and not just a couple of people with different values and ways of coping. So, no, I don't totally understand, and someone just saying "it's abuse" isn't answering the question. 

If anyone can explain it more, maybe I can understand. Because honestly, I don't think he's sitting around plotting how to hurt me. But, I do think he doesn't care as much as I do, obviously. And, I do think I'm to blame for some things too!


----------



## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I can see it as both. It started out as a simple incompatibility. But as you both tried to change that, tried to force that square peg into the round hole, his attempts to change the incompatibility went from working together to change things to simply doing what he wants and forcing you to go along with it if you stick around. And by sticking around, you allow him to get away with it, which makes him think its effective, so he continues to do it. Or, he gets a perverse thrill out of knowing he's got you dangling on his string, ready and willing to take whatever he dishes out, good or bad. 

Even though you may have some responsibility for how things are, the things he's doing are unacceptable responses to anything you may have done.


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

I agree with atruckersgirl. The two of you have areas of incompatibilty in your relationship, as anyone does. Your personal methods are to try and communicate in order to find common ground. You express active anger, which is healthy and condusive to any functioning human relationship i.e. you have a grievance, you air it and you come to a conclusion. He, on the other hand, has passive anger, which breeds discord. Not expressing your anger, staying angry and not doing anything to help resolve the situation has no purpose other than to suboordinate or gain control over a situation. All abuse is about control. I am not just saying the words, this is based on decades of study done on this topic. Just google 'passive agressive men', or 'love is not control'.


----------



## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

Loren,

I like that distinction between active and passive anger. In a previous, healthy relationship I had (that nonetheless, didn't work out), we were able to air our grievances (both of us), discuss, resolve, and move past things. It was such a pleasure to be with someone like that. But you're absolutely correct...passive anger breeds discord. In my current relationship, the problem has always been his reaction to me airing grievances, not the original grievance. He simply doesn't believe that I have a right to feel or at least express anything. And it IS about control, which can indeed be abusive. When a person repeatedly ignores his/her partner's request to seek a resolution, it is because they have no interest in cooperating, and feel that resolving the problem will diminish or take away their power in the relationship.


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

Think about it. Would he disappear for over two weeks from his job with no explanation, and ignore if his boss was calling, texting and leaving messages...? Most likely no, because he knows he has *something* to lose.

By him doing this to you, he is showing you that he does not have something to lose and that you are worth *nothing *. This is no different than him saying the verbally abusive words "you're a worthless nothing" or punching you in the face to show you you're a worthless nothing. The emotional devastation is still the same. You said in your original post that you're 'emotionally spent'.

He has either shown you that you're a worthless nothing and dumped you (basically saying you're so worthless you're not even worth a goodbye), or he has shown you you're a worthless nothing as punishment in order to, as Myopia said, maintain his status in the relationship. Both these scenarios are emotionally abusive. 

Whether he is in 'retreat' or not, what Atruckersgirl said is true, the things he's doing are unacceptable responses to anything you may have "done", particularly because it seems that all you have done is try and communicate your issues and reach a resolution. If he were to come back after this episode, and you were to take him back, what's to stop him doling out more punishment to make you feel worthless every time you need something from / disagree with him?

I do not want to preach to you. I have been through emotional abuse and I know how much this hurts. I believe that nobody is worthless, and no man or woman should be allowed to make another (particularly not their significant other) feel that way. I can assume your mother has your best interests at heart, so even if it is not easy hearing this from anonymous strangers, I would really listen to what she is saying and take her words on board.


----------



## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

Naturalist,

You're right, he isn't sitting around plotting anything nefarious. He doesn't have to do that, because he simply uses avoidance as his technique. And, in my experience, if you call him on this behavior, he'll object that he isn't doing anything wrong...which, of course, he technically isn't. Don't be fooled into thinking that this isn't a form of emotional abuse simply because he's not engaged in some overt action. In fact, this is worse, because it's so insidious and leaves you feeling like you're crazy or imagining things. Meanwhile he's "done nothing wrong". One source I found put it this way: 

"The man with passive aggressive actions is a master in getting his partner to doubt herself and feel guilty for questioning or confronting him." 

That's what you're doing. Why in the world would you question if it's normal for your "partner" of several years to not contact you for two weeks? It's NOT! But he has you in such a state of confusion that your judgment is skewed.


----------

