# Looking for a Man's POV (dual post)



## InRecoveryInNC (Oct 22, 2010)

*[READ NEXT POST FOR MORE DETAILED BACKSTORY]*

So now Fast Forward to this past weekend, he made a statement that has me questioning how far have we really come. Sex is still GREAT. We spend more time together, not really doing anything, but we are together. I am working on being more affectionate toward him, being more playful. I have taken an interest in doing things with him that he normally would have been doing in the shop by himself. I try to reach out to him and offer to take him to lunch or take him out on date etc. But this weekend, something just didn't sit right and I am not sure if I am overreacting or not, let me first say, I instigated the conversation and probably should have used a little more restraint but 3 Margaritas and a Tequila shot later (I don't normally drink alcohol) this is what happened: 

We had come back from a nice dinner, he sat beside me at the restaurant instead of across from me. We talked, we were playful. 
However, when he pulled in the driveway I noticed a lottery ticket (don't agree with it, but he does not have a gambling problem and when the pot is big enough he dabbles a little bit.) I reached over picked up the ticket and asked how everything was going... 

he jokingly said, _"not too good, I didn't win_" and smiles. 
I say, "_well I kind of knew that because you are still here"_, 
his reply "_what do you mean by that_" 
my reply "_if you didn't have the financial problems, by now you would probably be gone_." 
His reply, "_you should know me well enough to know that if I had won, even if things don't work out between us, because 'WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING', I would still take care of you_." 

So there it is... that one statement, *'WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING'*, it hit my like a load of bricks. Is he still not sure he wants to be here? Is he still making plans to leave 6 - 8 months down the road? Am I now more invested in making this work than he is? and a hundred more questions and scenarios fill my head. 

So I decide I am going to broach this topic the next morning after my head has cleared and we both are sober and rested. We once again end up having an amazing night of sex. Then in the early hours of the next day, I get an urgent call from my mother that my younger sister is being rushed to ICU. I immediately leave to be there with my mom and sister. I am now gone for more than 12 hours, he checks in with me to see how everything is. Once she is stabilized I come home. He seems fine but I feel a bit of awkwardness. 

Are my insecurities keeping me from being able to move forward, am I reading too much into his statement? Would a man that was so emotionally hurt has an PA and ready to walk out of the marriage just have sex to make himself better. Can a man have an erection in the morning if he didn't have some kind of connection with the person he was lying with? 

Can anyone shed some light on this topic? I know I am still very hurt and confused and could use some clarity and some advise from those that have found themselves in a similar situation.


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## InRecoveryInNC (Oct 22, 2010)

*THIS IS LONG BUT I BELIEVE THE BACKSTORY IS IMPORTANT FOR PREVIOUS POST*

It has been 90 days since Dday. A lot has changed but I find myself regressing emotionally at times.

One of the problems that led my H to having a PA (26 years into our relationship) was definitely due to the intimacy factor. He hurt my feelings early on in our marriage re: sex, fueled my already skewed view coupled with having children and him working in a highly competitive stressful job. Over time I pulled back to where we literally went 8 - 10 months without any form of intimacy with each other. I poured myself into raising the children. He used porn, personals and literotica along w/MB to satisfy his needs for more than a decade until he couldn't handle the loneliness and eventually sought out someone that made him 'feel' again and eventually it turned into an 8 month PA. Though the physical part did not start immediately.

For most of the time we have been together (since high school) I actually was so paranoid he would cheat I would regularly have dreams that seemed so real I couldn't speak to him for a day or two. My fear that we would leave me, had me always jumping the gun when in a heated argument with a defense of the D word. Add years of hurt between the two of us and financial problems (mine at first, his as a payback and jointly within the last 5 yrs.), we found ourselves simply co-habitating, less than roommates, I literally mean we basically just share the same address.

We both have spent at least 1/2 of our married life being vengeful and I don't believe this was conscientiously done at least not in the beginning. And deep down at least on my part it was a coping mechanism.

So we've been through many devastating and life changing events in the 27 years we've been together. So, 90 days ago, my fears and suspicions are realized. Yes, at first he denied it, but within 30 minutes he confessed. I am sure to this date I don't have the full picture. He begged me to stay, after hours and hours of convincing I did. I couldn't breathe, eat or sleep for more than a week. He stayed in the house but we slept in different rooms. I asked questions, he answered (to a degree, yet still keeping his guard up.) He apologized said he has, does and will always love me. He admitted if the situation were reverse he doesn't know that he would have the strength to forgive and still be together. For the first few weeks, he tried really hard to tell/show me he loved me and wanted to be with me. Originally he agreed to work on finding our way back to each other. His Needs/Her Needs. In the midst of all of this, his father (someone he had compassion for, but literally hated) became terminally ill. So during a time where we really needed to be working on our marriage daily, he had to take several week long trips back home (several states away.) Throw in that my youngest sister (two hours away) is also terminally ill with an elderly mother as her primary caregiver, a very active daughter in her Sr. year of HS with an equally active older daughter (collegiate athlete and also two hours away) adding in that my career is fumbling with very little hope of reviving it in the short term.

Mind you he has admitted to what has happened, he had shared that it was over months before I found out and the reason I did find out was because she wanted him back and he refused and that is why she contacted me. He said he tried the affair, and wasn't good at it and didn't want it anymore. So, I made a huge error in my judgment and did not at that time when he was so willing to work on things, ask him for full disclosure. I did not demand his passwords to his FB, his phone or his emails. The OW started harassing him on FB so he disabled it for a few months. Yet, his phone and emails were still active and still private.

While on one of his trips to visit his father, he agreed to complete the Emotional Needs questionnaire. We agreed we would work on it separately, then share ours with each other and would then each week take one of the categories and go over together until we had finished all of them.

I was working on mine and he said he was working on his. Several weeks go by and he tells me he's doing his. We set a deadline. His father passes away, he leaves for another week. We communicate some but not too much while he is gone, but things seem to be moving forward. He comes home, more than week passes by, no acknowledgment of the questionnaire. Finally, after there being radio silence I push for a conversation to take place. (Looking back on it now, bad timing, I should have waited a little longer, I think). This turns into a confrontation and he then tells me he wants out. He can't see this ever working. He doesn't like the person he has become and doesn't see how I would ever be able to get over it completely. He states that if I wanted he would look for a place immediately but due to some of our financial problems, would think that if he simply moved into our guest room, and still paid what he normally does to the household, we could spend the next 6 - 8 months getting the house ready to sell and getting our affairs in order that after our daughter's graduation we could part ways, now all this is said in a combination of emails and texts. In shock, I leave work, go to his place of business and force him to tell me this to my face. He stands by what he had written. I stand by the simple fact that I under no circumstance would allow 27 years together, be pushed off to side that simply. After hours of crying on both our parts we agree that the best thing to do is at that moment stop living and reliving the past. He will have to forgive me for my part the led us to where we are now and I would have to forgive him. That we would no longer bring up the past hurts as a defense for our reaction to what is happening in the present. That forgetting would probably never happen but consistently using those hurts to justify our behavior would have to stop. 

A few days goes by, he acts like he is making an effort. A few weeks or so goes by and out of the blue after literally 5 or more years, he gives me a kiss goodbye before he leaves for work. A few days later he asks if he come back to sleeping in our bed together, I agree. Another week or so goes by and I notice that while sleeping he starts to put his hand on my side or on my hip. Nothing sexual but just a touch. We start to snuggle nightly but again nothing sexual. Now, within the last 18 months alone, up to this point, we maybe had had sex 5X (maybe 6). We talk more but it is always safe subjects, the kids, our job etc. but nothing too intimate. I discover an exercise in sexual healing and approach him with it. He agrees and for the next 14 days we have sex. I mean mind blowing sex, everyday (except 2 days situations out of our control). We connect sometimes several times throughout the day. (that had not happened since we were newlyweds) It was amazing. I start to notice that in the morning he presses himself up against and he has an erection (something missing from our marriage for the last 3 - 4 years.)

We start talking more, but we still stay safe. Every once in awhile we will throw in something that is a little emotional but for the most part we don't really talk about the future, we are kind of just living day to day. One of things he had stated during the 'I think it's over ' speech was that he did not want to be treated like a child, he doesn't want to have to explain himself and always feel like he is under suspicion. I shared that there will be times I need reassurances and he should feel compelled to comply. (Once again, I missed an opportunity for full disclosure.) I don't believe I can now approach this without there possibly being some backlash and him pulling away from me and deciding he no longer wants to keep working on moving forward.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I'm not a guy but in my humble opinion you aren't expecting enough from him. You are doing your part and working on yourself but you deserve full disclosure and honesty but first you have to be willing to ask for it.


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

Okay, so I'm a guy in a similar place, but I have not had an affair, nor do I see it happening.

Looking at all the things that he's said, and this is just an opinion, you have to ask yourself if you plan on working this out, because I think he might be saying that he doesn't feel like he can talk openly about the issues, or doesn't like the way they are discussed. Yes, you deserve validation, but he's saying that this is not decided yet. So, if he feels like he's always under suspicion, he'll stay until he has the financial means to pull the trigger. In other words, he manned up to tell you its not decided, but you're speaking alot of woman-speak that has the effect of him hunkering down and just giving enough to bide his time. Please understand that I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong. It's likely more about how he feels about the way you speak about the issues.

One area that emphasises the difference between men and women is your question on his ability to have an erection. If you're attractive, and not wielding a knife and going Fatal Attraction, what does the relationship status have to do with it to a guy? Especially in the morning?

My suggestion is to set up some basic boundaries for discussions, and then stick to them. Ask him what makes him shut down, and how you can get around to asking without doing it in a way that makes him clam up.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

My personal opinions and bias' are attached.

You both want movement, but neither of you are invested in movement. 

All due respect, it seems like the two of you have enormous issues to overcome - and I don't really think that either of you trusts the other that such changes could possibly be permanent. This is what my ex and I had to come to terms with. Would we have preferred to work it out? Yes, I truly believe that we both wanted that. But as a couple - we just couldn't pull it off.

Does he have feelings for you? Absolutely. But that may still mean that he can't see happily living with you. I state this from experience. There are many things that I still find incredibly attractive about my ex - but in the two years that we have been apart, she has addressed NONE of the issues that I had with her. And the big benefit of where we are at now? I don't expect her to. She doesn't have to do anything for my benefit - and that's the way it should be.

She has no intention of getting a full-time job ... ever. She's never going to be proactive when it comes to problem solving. She has no desire to learn how to cook. She's a horrible housekeeper. She is never going to think of her partner before the kids or herself. She will always have issues surrounding sex.

Those are what added up to deal breakers for me. Has she done work on herself? Without a doubt, and I give her credit. 

But at the end of the day, despite several attempts for us to reconnect - it didn't happen. I don't trust her. With damn good reason.

This is what I see in the description between you and your husband. You had huge trust issues about him that were unwarranted for years ... all the while pushing him away. Finally he makes the bad decision that you've been fearful of, but actually fostering for years. I do not condone affairs - but the two of you absolutely cultivated those circumstances.

You couldn't let that fear go when he was faithful ... I don't, and I'm sure he doesn't, see how you will ever be able to fully move past the fact that he did have an affair.

Let's be clear, you both likely still have strong emotions for one another, but unless or until each of you are able to do some serious work on yourselves, I just don't see your relationship falling into the 'healthy' category.

Yes it's easy to make love to the woman you _remember_ falling in love with. It doesn't change the reality of your inability to get by your trust issues with one another now.

As for morning erections? They occur whether you are sleeping next to your wife or your fishing buddy. Every man experiences several erections while they sleep at night, into the early morning. Has nothing to do with sex or attraction.

I sincerely hope you are able to come to a resolution that you can be at peace with.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

First of all, about the erection, that is "morning wood", almost all guys get it. While the woman is thinking: "Oh, he is aroused", the guy is thinking: "How am I going to whizz with this %$#&*!ing hard-on?"

But as to the other stuff, he probably has a small, minute part of him that doesn't totally trust the situation yet. Yes, he is seeing, and appreciating, the fact that you are working on being affectionate with him, but he's not yet 100% into it. That tiny part of him is still not letting him fully into this. It's sorta like those cartoons, you know the ones when the character is having a dilemma, and then the angel and devil appear on his shoulders. The angel is telling him that the marriage is good, his wife is really a great gal after all, and that your years of patience and working it out maturely are finally paying off, but the devil is on his other shoulder, telling him that this isn't what it seems to be, that you're only being affectionate with him only to pull the rug out of under him later, or that you are being all sexual with him because you want to feel better about yourself-you don't want to be sexual with him because you really want to, or you're doing it just to "shut him up", and sooner or later, you're going to wake up and realize that you actually resent and hate this new situation, and that you both were living a lie all this time, and like a total sap, he fell for it.

Sorry, there goes my imagination again!

But give him time, show him that you are sincere, and he may very well come around and silence the devil on his shoulder.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

let's go back to your origianal posting, not the back story.

You tell him (albeit your were a little drunk) that if he had money, he'd be gone. Then you're upset that he says "WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING."

I'd say the same thing if I heard that from you. What you are said to him is that you don't feel he is totally in the game despite his efforts. Don't be surprised/hurt/angry if he agrees with you.

My guess is you both feel this should be further ahead than it is.


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## InRecoveryInNC (Oct 22, 2010)

takris said:


> One area that emphasises the difference between men and women is your question on his ability to have an erection. If you're attractive, and not wielding a knife and going Fatal Attraction, what does the relationship status have to do with it to a guy? Especially in the morning?


... *also a reply to Deejo and F-102*


I guess I should clarify this question/statement a bit. I have been married and sleeping with this man for more than 25 years. I know how the body works phsically, however, in the past 5 years, he has not had an erection in the morning or even during the night on a regular basis. It has been almost non-existent. Partially due to age (he's 45) and I believe partially because our relationship has been so strained that the attraction and stresses kept him from feeling anything.

So my question/statement I suppose is that maybe his feelings are coming back and one way he is non-verbally showing me/him is with this new outcome...


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## InRecoveryInNC (Oct 22, 2010)

Chris Taylor said:


> let's go back to your origianal posting, not the back story.
> 
> You tell him (albeit your were a little drunk) that if he had money, he'd be gone. Then you're upset that he says "WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING."
> 
> ...


I hear what you are saying and agree to a degree. I guess my response to 'if you had the money you'd already be gone' is that although we have come a long way in such a short time, he hasn't really communicated with me how invested he really is NOW, when only 3 weeks ago, he was ready to walk out and be done with it. He specifically stated that he's would leave but he can't afford it, so my take on his comment was more along the lines of he still unsure and that money (lack thereof) is the only thing keeping him here. He has moved back into our bedroom so I thought this was a good sign but between his last comment and an earlier comment in the week about his retirement beneficiary possibly being one of our daughters instead of me, just has me wondering how invested is he right NOW and does he even envision us being together in the future...


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Maybe he regrets those statements from earlier about taking off if he only had the money, but now he sees that your marriage may have a chance after all, but then when you said that he couldn't have won, because he's still here, he felt that you were digging that up and trying to bait him into an argument, and he chose to "fight back" by giving you the impression that he wasn't committed to this after all.

Or, perhaps he feels that you fully expect him to leave you at the first chance?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

F-102 said:


> Maybe he regrets those statements from earlier about taking off if he only had the money, but now he sees that your marriage may have a chance after all, but then when you said that he couldn't have won, because he's still here, he felt that you were digging that up and trying to bait him into an argument, and he chose to "fight back" by giving you the impression that he wasn't committed to this after all.
> 
> Or, perhaps he feels that you fully expect him to leave you at the first chance?


MarriedinNC,

Your comment about "him still being there" sounded like an insult to me.

I believe he took it the same way.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Not only an insult, but if he, in his mind, has REALLY been trying to make the marriage work and that is the impression that he has left you with, I'd be angry, too.

As for erections, I'm 57 and get them all the time during the night and when I wake up. They don't last long so unless you are staring at it all night long, you may be missing them.


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## InRecoveryInNC (Oct 22, 2010)

Chris Taylor said:


> Not only an insult, but if he, in his mind, has REALLY been trying to make the marriage work and that is the impression that he has left you with, I'd be angry, too.


Thank you Chris and Conrad,

I know at times we women can be self absorbed and I have only been thinking about how my feelings could have or were hurt by his statement not how his feelings should have been taken in to account and that is why he chose those words.

I will start to be a little more guarded in my jabs whether they be intentional or not.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Let's not discount his reception of the comment.

My wife can make a jab at me and I'll just laugh it off or ignore it. Other days if I had a bad day at work or she has been jabbing me enough, I lash back. Sometimes that's the only way she knows she crossed a line, a line that moves every day and she can only guess where it is.


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

HurtingInNC said:


> ... *also a reply to Deejo and F-102*
> 
> 
> I guess I should clarify this question/statement a bit. I have been married and sleeping with this man for more than 25 years. I know how the body works phsically, however, in the past 5 years, he has not had an erection in the morning or even during the night on a regular basis. It has been almost non-existent. Partially due to age (he's 45) and I believe partially because our relationship has been so strained that the attraction and stresses kept him from feeling anything.
> ...


It gets worse and worse. I'm 45!

But seriously, you know him, and it's easy for someone reading this to overlook this. Sometimes, we go through cycles, but it could be a good sign. And believe it or not, the more that you tell him that you believe him to be capable of making your knees weak, the more he will.

The comment about his lottery ticket is likely the instigator for his comment about where this is going. That was my point.

I'm in a slightly different position, but I think it could help. My wife told me for the first time recently that she thought I was a good husband. She has BPD, so she never says anything positive or affirming. Personally, I think I've been pretty good. Gave up television when we were married, and I am a hopeless romantic.

So, a few weeks ago, I could see that she was reeling about my decision to divorce. I told her that she has to commit to counseling and improvement, but nothing more. Yet almost every day, she makes 'innocent comments' that prove to me that this is going nowhere. She claims that they are only because of her insecurity with herself, and can't see why they hurt. But after 23 years of them... I just tell her to quit working so hard to prove to me that this is not going to work.

Somewhere, you've been sending the signals that tell him you think he is worthy of you, or stroking his ego, because the sex part has improved. Suggesting, even innocently, that you consider him the type of guy who would abandon you is like hitting him in the groin.


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## InRecoveryInNC (Oct 22, 2010)

Deejo said:


> My personal opinions and bias' are attached.....
> 
> This is what I see in the description between you and your husband. You had huge trust issues about him that were unwarranted for years ... all the while pushing him away. Finally he makes the bad decision that you've been fearful of, but actually fostering for years. I do not condone affairs - but the two of you absolutely cultivated those circumstances.
> 
> You couldn't let that fear go when he was faithful ... I don't, and I'm sure he doesn't, see how you will ever be able to fully move past the fact that he did have an affair.


You know six months ago, I would be right behind you telling you that there is *no way in hell* I would ever consider taking him back if he chose to have an affair.

However, now faced with it in reality, I have an inner strength that I didn't know I had. And beyond that, I believe that now that has happened the 'fear' of it happening is no longer there so as odd as it sounds, I have a sense of relief. Will I ever get completely over it and forget, NOPE/NEVER, and you know what I shouldn't, if I forget than how easy would it be for me to go back to the ways things were? Can I forgive him and move on, ABSOLUTELY, as long as I know he is committed to never letting it happen again and he is 100% on board of making this marriage work.

Trust me, day to day and some days hour by hour it is a true struggle. I have made mistakes, and there is absolutley nothing I can do to change the mistakes I made, it is in the past. We are living with the consequences daily. But what I can do, is make every effort and make choices daily that will keep me from ever going back there again. It took us years to get to the point where we don't trust each other and I realize it is probably going to take years of hard work to gain that trust back. This is for him to trust me and me to trust him.

He straight up told me he did not like the person who he was while involved with the OW. He stated he tried it, wasn't good at it and therefore ended it. Now of course the challenge is this, what do I need to do keep him from ever wanting to step outside of the marriage again. It is going to be hard work, but I know I am going to fight as hard as I can to keep him from wanting that. 

He shared how lonely he felt over the years when my attention and love seemed to be so focused on our children and I forgot about him. He shared how he wanted to know that he was 'wanted', that when he came home I appreciated how hard he was working not just glad to see the paycheck. He told me how much he needed the physical touch and not just sexually, but the random backrub or hand massage. The playful groping or rubbing his shoulders while watching TV. But also, he stated that when we have sex he wants to know that I want to have sex not that I am just 'providing' sex for him.

He wants to know that financially I take responsbility and will be more thoughtful in my decisions on how much, when and for what it gets spent on. He stressed how important it is having a tidy house all the time which makes him feel appreciated for providing a nice place to live. And you know what, none of this is so awful that I can't accommodate, as a matter of fact all of it is what a wife should do to satisfy his needs.

Don't get me wrong, I work hard outside of the home (50 hrs a/wk). I keep the house straightened and clean but can I say it is clean 100% of the time, not at all. I help take care of my terminally ill younger sister, I am still active with both children even though they are older they still need parental support and encouragement. I also know that I had gotten so used to not having the physical touch I didn't realize how much I needed it too, so if I touch him more often, than low and behold he reciprocates and then viola his needs and mine are both met.

However, where I struggle now is knowing where he is. I am 100% invested in making this work but is he? and how will I know it, he is not a talker especially about feeling so I am seeking how to pick up on the non-verbal signs he wants this to work.


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## beerlover (Nov 24, 2010)

I have to agree with several of the posts. When I read your story and saw that you said the "You're still here" thing and explained what it meant, I cringed. That alone would be enough to explain his response, but I also didn't think his response was that far out of line. He was at least being honest and not quite sure where this is going (doesn't mean he's not hopeful it will lead to happiness together though).

It seems to me that you both are in a bit of a limbo though. It's great that you able to at least go out and have a good time without hitting on the controversial areas. I only wish I could get that far with my wife right now--on the rare occasions we actually go out to try to have a good time, inevitably she always brings up the same old sore subjects and we end up in a fight. So I'm happy that you can avoid that, but at some point you are going to need to hit on those sensitive areas. I'm no expert, but I think you need to agree on some groundrules such as giving each other the option to back away if things start to get uncomfortable, but agree to come back to the table within a specific amount of time. In my situation I would love to be able to safely have an honest open discussion where we both listened to the other side and committed to work together in a positive way to reach a solution. It sounds like there is enough good will in your case to at least lay down some rules like that and then you can actually make some progress. If you don't make any more progress though, I think your husband is justified with his comment.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

WEll, the way i see things :

"my reply "if you didn't have the financial problems, by now you would probably be gone." "

From your part, this probably was a way to ask for him to comfort you, tell you what you're thinking is wrong and that he'll always be there. For short you were probably looking for reassurance. 

On his part, he probably took it as a huge offence (i would've anyway) that you think something like that about him, especially if he's trying to make things work. 

What i wrote above might or not be true (we can never read other people's minds and thoughs..can we). But it's not very important. Instead of focusing on words why not think this way...you've been trying to rebuild your marriage for a short time....you've been passive for years in it. You're expecting too much security, and too fast in my opinion, from a marriage that was on the rocks for a long time. That's not to say things won't work themselves out. You're making great progress. Don't chicken out and question his stance. 

Just give it your best for a couple of months as both your habits and views on your relationship, built in years, need to change (try thinking of it as something you didn't do, should have, and are making up for now), keep positive and stop questioning what every erection, word and behavior means. 

"I struggle now is knowing where he is. I am 100% invested in making this work but is he? ". This is a ...if i give, i need to receive type of mentality. Focus on giving. Focus on feeling good about yourself. Focus on keeping your life happy. Stop focusing on your fears and insecurity. I'm not saying he's not supposed to give, but you focus on your part of the story. Instead of questioning whether he's in 100 percent, be optimistic, think "hey, let's assume he is" and go from there. You need to risk to win...your risk is very small with a husband who is clearly giving your marriage another chance. 

Let go of those defensive behaviors...the type of "i'll give it my best but i'll stop once in a while and try figure out whether it's safe to give or he'll just leave if he gets the chance". You're loosing too much time and nerves on this. Just choose to jump in with both feet. You've already handled infidelity, you're working through things, your marriage is much better. What do you really have to loose?


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