# Husband May Never Move Out of His Mother's House. Did I make a huge mistake?



## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

Hello all. I'm new here. I'll try to post as much info as needed without making this into a story that never ends. 

I met my husband 4.5 years ago, playing an online videogame. We connected instantly and spent hours upon hours talking and playing. We met in person 6 months later. He has always lived with his mother. He pays half the mortgage, and says he just never moved out because he and his mother saved money by splitting bills. We discussed him transferring close to where I live or if that was not possible, that we would both move to another agreed-upon location. The plan was that when he was ready to move, his sister would be taking over his portion of the bills.

He works for an airline, luckily, so travel is not a problem. We see each other very often and have been able to spend months at a time together. 2 years ago, he found out that a transfer near me wasn't possible. His mother told us that my children and I could move in and live there so that we could save money to buy a house. At the time, it seemed like a great idea. A year ago, we decided to get married, and I was supposed to move there by the end of the summer. I had some emergencies that stalled moving, but nonetheless, my kids and I travelled there and spent time in the house with my husband and MIL.

That's when I realized that their relationship was, well, different. My MIL seemed very needy all of a sudden. Anytime I would ask my husband for assistance with something, my MIL would come out of nowhere insisting that he help her with something at once. It was as if she couldn't bear to see him help another woman with anything. In our time there, I realized she is totally dependent upon my husband. He often cooks or orders food for the two of them. He washes the dishes and cleans the house most of the time. He also does all the "manly duties" like yardwork and shoveling snow. Pretty much any chore that needs done, he does it. 

On top of that, I've noticed that their relationship creeps me out a bit. Once, while out to lunch, my husband sat across from her, I sat next to my MIL. She exclaimed suddenly that her hands were freezing and reached out and grabbed my husbands hands, insisting that he warm hers up. It was like 85 degrees outside. I felt like she was doing this out of jealousy. Also, when we ride somewhere together, she insists on sitting in the front seat. She walks around in her bra, in my husband's presence. Another time, when my husband had just gotten out of the shower, she yelled for him to help her with the remote. My husband went in to her room in a towel, trying to hold it up with one hand and program the remote with his other hand. His genitals revealed themselves more than once and neither said anything. In fact, they didn't seem like it was any big deal.

I have since decided that I will not be moving in with them EVER. My MIL sends my husband crazy text messages if he doesn't do what she asked him to do. She even threatens him with telling me about the chores that he hasn't done. She constantly pulls passive-aggressive behavior and piles on the guilt so that my husband feels guilty for planning to leave. I feel kind of like I'm in the twilight zone and I have no idea how to approach my husband about these things because I don't think he even realizes anything is wrong. How do I talk to him about things without him getting hurt or offended? And better yet, how can I get him away from his mother?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Send him a copy of the movie "Goodbye Lenin"... He may get the clue.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Momma's infant.
became
Momma's toddler.
became
Momma's boy.
became
Momma's teen.
became
Momma's Man
became
Your husband.

Put your foot down on Dear Husband's neck.

Tell him:

Your Mother is not my Mother.

Your Mother is not your Wife.

Your Wife is your only responsibility.

Your Mother or your Wife.

Choose now......or I will choose for you.

If he stumbles, hems or haws, gather your children.

To a new man, you shall go.

To a new man....nary a Mommy's boy be considered, yet again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How old are you, your husband and his mother?

I doubt that your husband will ever leave his mother. The grooming of turning him into her surrogate husband started a long time ago. He's a true mommy's boy.

His relationship with has been him living out his dream to be a man with a normal life. But it sounds like he is not emotionally strong enough to leave his mother. And Lord knows, it sounds like she cannot survive an hour without him.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

ladyskraps said:


> *She walks around in her bra*, in my husband's presence. Another time, when my husband had just gotten out of the shower, she yelled for him to help her with the remote. My husband went in to her room in a towel, trying to hold it up with one hand and program the remote with his other hand. *His genitals revealed themselves more than once and neither said anything. In fact, they didn't seem like it was any big deal.*


I am sorry for Not CAN I re-lent, though it really be Lent.
................................................................................................
His genitals are hers to bathe. 

Her back and her breasts are his to scrub.

Now that Momma has aged, he realizes he will soon, a younger hand-maiden, need possess. That be you. 

He has been self-weaning himself from Momma's tit. And with that, Momma's now ache, from lack of validation.

I need to go spit.


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## shrah25 (Mar 22, 2017)

ladyskraps said:


> Hello all. I'm new here. I'll try to post as much info as needed without making this into a story that never ends.
> 
> I met my husband 4.5 years ago, playing an online videogame. We connected instantly and spent hours upon hours talking and playing. We met in person 6 months later. He has always lived with his mother. He pays half the mortgage, and says he just never moved out because he and his mother saved money by splitting bills. We discussed him transferring close to where I live or if that was not possible, that we would both move to another agreed-upon location. The plan was that when he was ready to move, his sister would be taking over his portion of the bills.
> 
> ...



Hi @ladyskraps

Thanks for your message. 

You've got a really interesting situation here but one that needs to be addressed quickly before it brings about more issues down the line. 

Your MIL is simply using her son as her primary source of love and your husband is completely afraid to let go of that love as well. Hence they have a dependency on each other. Sadly, as long as they have this 'arrangement', he will never be able to be the husband that you need him to be for you. In short - he's still a boy and until he free's himself from that relationship, he won't become a man. 

He needs to truly begin to feel the consequences of carrying on this sort of 'relationship' and how much of an impact that it will have on his life if he continues to be tied to her. I'm not suggesting giving him an ultimatum, but at least speaking to him in such a way that he knows, in no uncertain terms, that you aren't going to tolerate being 'the third wheel'. 

A question I have is - where is his father? I presume he has either left or has passed away?

Thanks
Sri


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> How old are you, your husband and his mother?
> 
> I doubt that your husband will ever leave his mother. The grooming of turning him into her surrogate husband started a long time ago. He's a true mommy's boy.
> 
> His relationship with has been him living out his dream to be a man with a normal life. But it sounds like he is not emotionally strong enough to leave his mother. And Lord knows, it sounds like she cannot survive an hour without him.


I'm 31, he's 35 and his mother is in her mid 60s. She's not in great health, but he's stayed with me for a full month at a time and she gets along fine while he's gone. When he returns, however, she's got her giant lists of honey-dos. 

After days of fighting and long conversations, he's agreed to move to a different state with me. I don't trust, yet, that he will. But I think he's growing tired of her taking advantage of him.


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> I am sorry for Not CAN I re-lent, though it really be Lent.
> ................................................................................................
> His genitals are hers to bathe.
> 
> ...


I agree. My biggest concern was that his intention was for me to move in and bear (or at least share) the burden of taking care of her. I think I surprised him by refusing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ladyskraps said:


> I agree. My biggest concern was that his intention was for me to move in and bear (or at least share) the burden of taking care of her. I think I surprised him by refusing.


I'm glad that you are smart enough to not move into her home. What a disaster that would be!


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

shrah25 said:


> Hi @ladyskraps
> 
> He needs to truly begin to feel the consequences of carrying on this sort of 'relationship' and how much of an impact that it will have on his life if he continues to be tied to her. I'm not suggesting giving him an ultimatum, but at least speaking to him in such a way that he knows, in no uncertain terms, that you aren't going to tolerate being 'the third wheel'.
> 
> ...


His father left his mother when he was 5. She remarried shortly after and divorced his stepfather when he was 18. His biological father wasn't very involved with him when he was a child. He tried to come back into hubby's life after he'd reached adulthood. They've only recently begun to have an actual relationship. 

I have been speaking to him constantly about what our plans will be, since I've refused to move in with them. Just tonight he agreed to make plans to transfer to another location, several states away from his mother. I believe that he's starting to realize that things aren't normal in his relationship with her. I can only hope that he will follow through with his promise. Then of course, there will be the aftermath of the guilt trips she will inevitably lay on him.


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I'm glad that you are smart enough to not move into her home. What a disaster that would be!


A few days spent there was enough to let me know it was a really bad idea. The thing about narcissists is that they can only hide it for so long.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

You're doing the right thing. There are books on toxic parents. I have a similar situation with my own mother. And it's actually a typical problem with a lot of mothers... Even my dad's mom! (Both dead - old age). It was something I was concerned with a bit many years ago.

So.... Does your husband want to be married to you or his mom?

My GF loved my mom and Mom liked my girlfriend. Then when we became engaged - my mom went stupid on me. Even screaming " she's taking you away!" Which she doesn't remember... She should have thought she was gaining a daughter and eventually a grandson. Sucked when she moved in with us. What was supposed to be 2 months turned into almost 2 years. She made everyone miserable... And was very damaging to my marriage. She is not allowed to live with us again... No way.

She lives 12 miles away. Hell, my dad moved 3 states away from his mom on purpose. Oddly my mom and his mom got along very well.

The arrangement is typical of many people in the USA. It sucks... Even with good relationships.

He can't be married to both of you.

The nudity is a bit odd. My mom hasn't seen my junk since my age hit double digits. But some house holds are a bit more lacks than others. The running out of the bath to do his mom's bidding is what's disturbing. He can grow out of that. Moving to another state would do wonders. But he should get some help with books and maybe some therapy.

He's way too much a Mama's boy.


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

Thanks everyone, for all the advice. I was feeling a bit guilty and selfish because my MIL can't afford the house on her own, but she has other options and children that can help. After reading some of your advice, I pressed him pretty hard last night to make a decision. He just sent me a screenshot of his transfer request to another city, so he finally took some action, which is what I needed. I know that this move will create hostility from both my side of the family and his, but it's really the only way for us to close the gap and live together affordably.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

One of the things I learned from others over the last 66 years is to never marry a momma's boy. His mother will always come before you. My cousin married one and two years later she divorce him. Same thing like you said. He wanted to keep living with his mother, would massage her feet and his mother acted like she was fighting for his attention. Good luck.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ladyskraps said:


> Thanks everyone, for all the advice. I was feeling a bit guilty and selfish because my MIL can't afford the house on her own, but she has other options and children that can help. After reading some of your advice, I pressed him pretty hard last night to make a decision. He just sent me a screenshot of his transfer request to another city, so he finally took some action, which is what I needed. I know that this move will create hostility from both my side of the family and his, but it's really the only way for us to close the gap and live together affordably.


This is a massive issue now, especially with so many single mums and their sons. They do become surrogate husbands. This happened to a certain extent with my husband and his mum, she looked to him to met her emotional needs, but in his case he didn't need her in the same way. Fortunately he did leave home when he married his first wife at age 25, and then even more fortunately they both moved back to the wife's home here in the UK 5 years later. His mother tried to end all of her sons marriages, and basically wanted them for herself. 

I will never understand this. I have a son who left home at age 24, and now has a lovely wife, I couldn't be happier for them, and have never felt in the least possessive. Its what I always wanted for my children. Children are supposed to leave home and be independant, its so selfish of parents to pressure or guilt trip their children to stay. She needs to get a life of her own and for once be responsible for herself. 

I think its a good thing that he will be moving so far away, its the best thing do so in such cases. Otherwise she will never let him go. He may have problems with her contacting him all the time and putting the guilt trip on him, and wanting him to visit, so you will need to agree with how that is dealt with. Personally I wouldn't marry a man who was still so very closely emotionally tied to his mother at his age, but hopefully he will do the right thing and leave.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Why will it cause hostility from you side of the family?


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

Is your husband's name on the title and the mortgage? If so, he can force a sale, split the equity with mommy and everyone go their own way. If only mommy's name, he is probably screwed out of the equity. I strongly suggest your husband consult with a real estate attorney in the area where the house is located to find out his rights.

IamSomebody


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Why will it cause hostility from you side of the family?


My family is very attached to my children. My father is like his mother to an extent. He believes that he is within his rights as a father to try and dictate the lives of his adult children. Usually, he'll be angry with me or my siblings for a time when we don't agree with him, but he always gets over it. My parents both believe that my kids and I are better off near them. Mostly, I think they say that simply because they are so attached and not being near us will be very difficult for them. On my end, there will be a period of time where they'll be upset, but they'll realize and accept that this is for the best. On his end, I don't know how his family will respond because he's never moved out of his mother's home, much less moved several states away.


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

IamSomebody said:


> Is your husband's name on the title and the mortgage? If so, he can force a sale, split the equity with mommy and everyone go their own way. If only mommy's name, he is probably screwed out of the equity. I strongly suggest your husband consult with a real estate attorney in the area where the house is located to find out his rights.
> 
> IamSomebody


Actually, we just found out a couple days ago that his mother refinanced and cashed in the equity on the home 5 years ago. He's been paying half the mortgage as part of an agreement that he would end up wth the home after his mother was gone. I think this was the final straw in him deciding to put in the transfer at last.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ladyskraps said:


> Actually, we just found out a couple days ago that his mother refinanced and cashed in the equity on the home 5 years ago. He's been paying half the mortgage as part of an agreement that he would end up wth the home after his mother was gone. I think this was the final straw in him deciding to put in the transfer at last.


Besides that she isnt very old and could easily live for another 30 years! If she cashed this in its hard to see why she can't afford this on her own. She can always downsize as well. If he leaves she will only need one bedroom.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ladyskraps said:


> My family is very attached to my children. My father is like his mother to an extent. He believes that he is within his rights as a father to try and dictate the lives of his adult children. Usually, he'll be angry with me or my siblings for a time when we don't agree with him, but he always gets over it. My parents both believe that my kids and I are better off near them. Mostly, I think they say that simply because they are so attached and not being near us will be very difficult for them. On my end, there will be a period of time where they'll be upset, but they'll realize and accept that this is for the best. On his end, I don't know how his family will respond because he's never moved out of his mother's home, much less moved several states away.


Its understandable that they will miss the children of course, but with your dad the way he is, it maybe advisable for you to move away anyway.


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

So I'm not sure if I should continue this thread or start a new one. As I posted before, my husband submitted his transfer to a new city. He must be at his new job in the new city by May 30th. Last week, he came here for a visit.

The first day he got here, he and I were going to the kids' school to have lunch with them. I was running late and he was fusing at me. As we got in the car, I told him jokingly to hurry. I noticed that he looked upset and I immediately told him I was just joking. As we got to the intersection to turn onto the main street in town, he hit the gas, ran through a stop sign, almost got hit by a car and proceeded to slam his foot down on the gas pedal. He got up to almost 65 in a 30 mph zone before I yelled at him to slow down. After we left the school, he apologized and just said that he was mad at me for yelling at him. That was the first incident. 

I don't know if I mentioned it before, but I had a shoulder injury last year that still causes a lot of pain. I was lying in bed with him and I asked him to massage my shoulder and upper back. I was trying to explain where it hurt, and all of a sudden, I felt him push down on my shoulder with all of his weight not once, but twice. Pain immediately shot through my shoulder. I started crying. The pain was so bad I stayed in bed all night. Eventually, it got so bad I ended up in the emergency room later that night. After we left the hospital, I asked him why he had done that. He said that he wasn't trying to hurt me and he thought I wanted more pressure. My husband is not stupid and he has medical training. When I pointed this out he started crying and said he didn't know why he did it. Maybe he's angry at his mother. Maybe he's angry at me.

Prior to this episode, I'd been doing some research on mother-son enmeshment. I feel like he has a lot of the symptoms of this. I shared some of what I found with him before this happened in an effort to convince him to consider therapy. Was I wrong to bring it up with him? Before this happened, I never, in a million years would've thought that he would ever hurt me in any way. I've been with this man for almost 5 years. We've had many heated arguments and he never laid a hand on me. I'd never really seen him angry. We've talked at lengths about these two episodes, and he's assured me it'll never happen again, but I'm kind of scared. I told him that I can't join him in the new city until he gets some counseling. He told me that I'm being unreasonable. He's upset that I've pressed so hard on him to move out, and that it's not fair to back out now that he has no choice but to move. Am I overreacting?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Red flags for sure. He sounds very immature, as if he has never grown up.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ladyskraps said:


> So I'm not sure if I should continue this thread or start a new one. As I posted before, my husband submitted his transfer to a new city. He must be at his new job in the new city by May 30th. Last week, he came here for a visit.
> 
> The first day he got here, he and I were going to the kids' school to have lunch with them. I was running late and he was fusing at me. As we got in the car, I told him jokingly to hurry. I noticed that he looked upset and I immediately told him I was just joking. As we got to the intersection to turn onto the main street in town, he hit the gas, ran through a stop sign, almost got hit by a car and proceeded to slam his foot down on the gas pedal. He got up to almost 65 in a 30 mph zone before I yelled at him to slow down. After we left the school, he apologized and just said that he was mad at me for yelling at him. That was the first incident.
> 
> ...


Maybe mummy used to ask him to massage her, trigger point? He needs counselling but do not act like a second mother.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Um no, that would creep me out too! I say trust your gut. Better to feel silly than to live the rest of your life regretting you didn't trust your gut.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ladyskraps said:


> As we got in the car, I told him jokingly to hurry. I noticed that he looked upset and I immediately told him I was just joking. As we got to the intersection to turn onto the main street in town, he hit the gas, ran through a stop sign, almost got hit by a car and proceeded to slam his foot down on the gas pedal. He got up to almost 65 in a 30 mph zone before I yelled at him to slow down. After we left the school, he apologized and just said that he was mad at me for yelling at him.


Please do not minimize this or make excuses for him. He was "mad"???? He could have killed innocent people and injured you with his out-of-control driving. That in itself would have been enough to freak me out and make me rethink the relationship. 



ladyskraps said:


> I was lying in bed with him and I asked him to massage my shoulder and upper back. I was trying to explain where it hurt, and all of a sudden, I felt him push down on my shoulder with all of his weight not once, but twice. Pain immediately shot through my shoulder. I started crying. The pain was so bad I stayed in bed all night. Eventually, it got so bad I ended up in the emergency room later that night. After we left the hospital, I asked him why he had done that. *He said that he wasn't trying to hurt me and he thought I wanted more pressure.*


Yeah, right. He puts his entire weight on your shoulder and dismisses what he did because the "thought" you wanted more pressure. I call total b.s. on that pathetic excuse.



ladyskraps said:


> Prior to this episode, I'd been doing some research on mother-son enmeshment. I feel like he has a lot of the symptoms of this.


Why are you trying to figure out HIS problems/issues? They are his, not yours. Your issue is your are married to a MASSIVE passive-aggressive mommy's boy who is abusing you. I think you need to look at yourself and ask why you are putting up with this nonsense. YOU, not him. 



ladyskraps said:


> I told him that I can't join him in the new city until he gets some counseling. He told me that I'm being unreasonable. He's upset that I've pressed so hard on him to move out, and that it's not fair to back out now that he has no choice but to move.


No, you are not being one bit unreasonable. You are married to a man-child. So he had to move out of mommy's home, now he starts treating you like garbage, and he thinks counseling is "unreasonable." To hell with him. You have every right to be scared. I certainly would be if I was in your shoes.

I applaud you for setting a boundary. Now you have to decide if you will/can stick to that boundary. If not, he'll realize what you say has no consequences and go right on behaving this way. As it is, I'd be done with someone like this in a New York minute. Your life. Your choice. Seriously.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree with what the others have said. 

He has a problem with anger. You are the target now. I wonder how much of this his mother dealt with.

He's moving because you insisted on it and now he's taking that out on you.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Until the high speed driving and causing your injury to your shoulder. You should have discussed moving to the new city when he had started some therapy and self improvement.

Have you or him discussed going to a CODA meeting, if available? They are hard to come by... there are about 10,000x more people in AA meetings. So look at buying some CODA books (blue one) and a few pamphlets. Start with pamphlets - because they can be read in 20 minutes or so, good for reference and have bullet point reminders.

Yes, he's taking his anger out on you. It's not too ABNORMAL - other than his particular actions are deadly and hurtful. So the thing to find out is... will he be willing to IMPROVE himself?


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

ladyskraps said:


> Prior to this episode, I'd been doing some research on mother-son enmeshment. I feel like he has a lot of the symptoms of this.


Why are you trying to figure out HIS problems/issues? They are his, not yours. Your issue is your are married to a MASSIVE passive-aggressive mommy's boy who is abusing you. I think you need to look at yourself and ask why you are putting up with this nonsense. YOU, not him. 

I was actually looking for help for myself online. It looks like we both may have been victims of emotional incest. I've scheduled counseling for myself. I'm just really frustrated with myself. I know that, logically, I should probably have ended my relationship with him long ago when I first caught him cheating. But you're right, I do make excuses for him.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

ladyskraps said:


> Why are you trying to figure out HIS problems/issues? They are his, not yours. Your issue is your are married to a MASSIVE passive-aggressive mommy's boy who is abusing you. I think you need to look at yourself and ask why you are putting up with this nonsense. YOU, not him.
> 
> I was actually looking for help for myself online. It looks like we both may have been victims of emotional incest. I've scheduled counseling for myself. I'm just really frustrated with myself. I know that, logically, I should probably have ended my relationship with him long ago when I first caught him cheating. But you're right, I do make excuses for him.


I missed this thread, so sorry for what you've been going through OP.

Emotional incest is a huge problem, and it's not really looked at much. If you've been through it, I suggest finding a counselor who can help you through it, who believes in parentification / emotional incest being a problem. Not all therapists do, so you may have to look around. 

I don't know what you've been through, but it is obvious that your H was a victim of parentification and emotional incest. He needs therapy, whether or not you two stay together. You might pass some resources on to him.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Prodigal said:


> No, you are not being one bit unreasonable. You are married to a man-child. So he had to move out of mommy's home, now he starts treating you like garbage, and he thinks counseling is "unreasonable." To hell with him. You have every right to be scared. I certainly would be if I was in your shoes.
> 
> I applaud you for setting a boundary. Now you have to decide if you will/can stick to that boundary. If not, he'll realize what you say has no consequences and go right on behaving this way. As it is, I'd be done with someone like this in a New York minute. Your life. Your choice. Seriously.


I just want to say that it's not unreasonable for a person in his shoes to see this as a bait and switch. He may be incorrect, but it's important to inspect other people's perspectives. He agreed to her terms, and now she's not going to move in with him. And they're married. Most people would see that as a problem.

Now, I'm not certain it would be wise for OP to move to live with him right now, but his request is not wholly unreasonable. The OP demanded that her H leave his family and move to another city, with no support group, so they can live together. And then said "nah, not right now. You haven't proven yourself to me. Do more." Anyone in the H's shoes would be pretty freaking angry. And hurt.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

He attacked her with intent to cause great bodily harm. He may think it is bait and switch, but she has every right to protect herself.

His attack on her changes everything. No one should minimize or attempt to excuse his assault on her.

In my opinion that assault is reason enough to never be alone with him again. Ever. I have seen women hospitalized by their husbands before. So many apologies. So many lies. After an assault like that there is only one reasonable course of action, and that is complete separation and divorce. Never trust him.

Next time it will be broken bones. 

It is so painful watching a woman holding her own broken body, staunching her own blood, making excuses for her husband. We are vastly too forgiving of these incidents.

Please, protect yourself.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

No one is minimizing what he did, and no one said she should move with him. Just pointing out the reality of the situation. Life isn't a comic book with heroes and villains. Someone can be completely wrong in one thing, and not unreasonable in another.


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

He went back to Chicago on Wednesday. The day before he left, I found out that he has been going out to bars and casinos and dropping hundreds of dollars, all while we're supposed to be saving to move. On the way to the airport, I told him that I understand that he's going through some things and I know that his home environment with his mother is extremely hostile, especially since he told her about the move. I told him that if he needed time to himself, just to let me know that he was going to go out and that I'd understand. Last night, he texted that he was going to work overtime. When I pressed him about it this morning, he admitted that he lied to go out. This isn't the first time. Talking to him on the phone when we're fighting is useless. He clams up and stops speaking at all. So I just sent him this message:

"I'm really hurt that you still chose to lie to me after our conversation. I'm not your mother. I don't control you or your actions and you have no reason to lie to me. You expect me to believe the crap you spew and then you turn around and lie barely 24 hours after leaving here. I have kids to deal with daily. You are not one of them. I honestly feel as if you're never going to grow up. As far as I'm concerned, I just need to stay here. You go do whatever you want. I'll do the same. It's no wonder I used to have panic attacks at the thought of marriage. I should have listened to my instincts. Since you want to be single, I think divorce is the best option. I picked up the paperwork today and I'll be saving to file it. If you choose to avoid me, as you often do, then I'll have to assume that you're agreeable to my solution. I didn't get married to pick up another kid. Much less a man-child who refuses to take responsibility for his own actions and choices. I'll never understand why you pushed so hard for marriage if this obviously isn't what you wanted. Moreover, I'll never understand why i chose to marry you even after seeing all the signs that you weren't ready. I hope that moving to Dallas will give you a chance to mature into the man I know you could be. I haven't given up on you. I still love you dearly. But meanwhile, it's not fair to me to be stuck in a marriage to a man who still behaves as if he's single. Hoping for the best, but still making plans for the worst."

Mostly, I'm just looking for encouragement to stay my course and not cave when he starts the crying and begging and bullsh*t promises. I have an appointment with a counselor, but it's not until mid-May and I'd imagine it'll take awhile before I'm strong enough to leave him for good, even with counseling.... I so appreciate all of your comments, support, and advice. I have no time for friends with 4 kids. And I don't want to tell my family about these things because if one day, things do change, I don't want them to hate him or think I'm stupid.


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

Kivlor said:


> I just want to say that it's not unreasonable for a person in his shoes to see this as a bait and switch. He may be incorrect, but it's important to inspect other people's perspectives. He agreed to her terms, and now she's not going to move in with him. And they're married. Most people would see that as a problem.
> 
> Now, I'm not certain it would be wise for OP to move to live with him right now, but his request is not wholly unreasonable. The OP demanded that her H leave his family and move to another city, with no support group, so they can live together. And then said "nah, not right now. You haven't proven yourself to me. Do more." Anyone in the H's shoes would be pretty freaking angry. And hurt.


I agree that he's justified in feeling that way. I'm actually feeling really guilty about it. I can deal with everything else, the lying, cheating, etc as long as he seeks counseling and makes an effort to change. I never, ever, EVER saw any signs of him being potentially violent. If I move there, I'm on my own as well. My kids and I have no family in the area. If something like that or worse should happen like that, I'd be on my own. I'd be a 7 hour drive from my hometown and family. I'm not comfortable with that. And I'm not comfortable leaving my kids alone with someone can go into fits of rage like that. And he's not completely alone. He has cousins there. He also has a really good friend whom he works with who is letting him stay with him while he gets set up.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

ladyskraps said:


> I agree that he's justified in feeling that way. I'm actually feeling really guilty about it. I can deal with everything else, the lying, cheating, etc as long as he seeks counseling and makes an effort to change. I never, ever, EVER saw any signs of him being potentially violent. If I move there, I'm on my own as well. My kids and I have no family in the area. If something like that or worse should happen like that, I'd be on my own. I'd be a 7 hour drive from my hometown and family. I'm not comfortable with that. And I'm not comfortable leaving my kids alone with someone can go into fits of rage like that. And he's not completely alone. He has cousins there. He also has a really good friend whom he works with who is letting him stay with him while he gets set up.


Never ever stay with someone who has been violent with you.Not even one time,because if you accept it,no matter how much he apologises he WILL do it again.And he was violent twice,hurting your shoulder and in the car.Do not think the car episode wasn't violence,he was trying to frighten you which is the same thing.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Kivlor said:


> I just want to say that it's not unreasonable for a person in his shoes to see this as a bait and switch. He may be incorrect, but it's important to inspect other people's perspectives. He agreed to her terms, and now she's not going to move in with him. And they're married. Most people would see that as a problem.
> 
> Now, I'm not certain it would be wise for OP to move to live with him right now, but his request is not wholly unreasonable. The OP demanded that her H leave his family and move to another city, with no support group, so they can live together. And then said "nah, not right now. You haven't proven yourself to me. Do more." Anyone in the H's shoes would be pretty freaking angry. And hurt.


BOTH the OP and her husband moved away from their families, not just him. The reason she's postponing her move to the new city is because he attacked her! Hardly a bait and switch.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife's sister was abused, hospitalized several times by her husband, and has several scars from his battering. That type of abuse does not stop. It just keeps escalating.

Especially once the abuser gets you into a position where he thinks you are vulnerable. The more vulnerable you are, the more the abuse escalates.

I kept begging her to leave him. She tried on a couple occasions, but my wife's family would actually help him find her and drag her forcefully back. Such is life for some religious people. They felt the problem was she just needed to learn to be an obedient wife.

I am considered a bad boy. I stole my wife and took her out of the sway of religion. So all of them had been ignoring me. Finally when my wife's sister began to believe her life was in danger, and she had to have oral surgery to put her jaw back together and reconstruct her lips, she finally turned to me. I made sure she was safe, and I did not allow her husband to get near her without me being present. I did not send her back.

My soul weeps for abused women. In modern vernacular one could even say it triggers me.

He abused you. He wanted to hurt you. Fear him. He will hurt you more if he gets the chance.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

So you met him while playing a video game. Did it not raise a red flag that a grown man was playing a video game? No hints about a lack of maturity or moral character right there?


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> So you met him while playing a video game. Did it not raise a red flag that a grown man was playing a video game? No hints about a lack of maturity or moral character right there?


No, it did not. I was a grown woman with 4 kids and a very good full time job at the time and I very much enjoyed killing zombies in my spare time to unwind after the kids were in bed. He also had a full-time job where he's still employed and has been at for 10 years. I think playing video games is a better way of unwinding than doing other things like drinking or worse. There are a ton of responsible adults who enjoy gaming. This comment was a bit out of left field and accusatory. There were many red flags which I chose to ignore. I'm guilty of that for sure. Playing video games wasn't one of them.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

> I can deal with everything else, the lying, cheating, etc as long as he seeks counseling and makes an effort to change.


I'm trying to figure out what it *is* you're trying *so *hard to salvage.

He's a lying cheater who has physically abused you twice.

When is enough _ENOUGH_? What the hell ELSE does he have to do before you* finally *realize he's NOT worth re-investing in? Torture small animals? Shoot up a McDonald's? :wtf:


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Lying, cheating, gambling, ridiculously attached to mother AND abusive. File the divorce asap. Since you have been married for a short time, don't have children together and don't share a marital home you can get out of this sham marriage fairly easy. 

Check your county website. Ours has printable divorce papers and folks can even efile. The fee is only a couple hundred dollars. No need to pay attorney fees when you aren't dealing with shared assets and custody/support issues.


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

K


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## ladyskraps (Apr 10, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'm trying to figure out what it *is* you're trying *so *hard to salvage.
> 
> He's a lying cheater who has physically abused you twice.
> 
> When is enough _ENOUGH_? What the hell ELSE does he have to do before you* finally *realize he's NOT worth re-investing in? Torture small animals? Shoot up a McDonald's? :wtf:


You're right. I've been asking myself the same question. When we first "met," we had so much in common and things just felt so right. For a little over a year, everything was literally perfect and I felt like I'd found my soul mate. That's when I first discovered the cheating. I was doing the same though. We both cheated on each other in the beginning. I attributed it to the distance. I stopped cheating, he didn't. 
Things, of course, never changed. But, in other ways, he helped and supported me through one of the most difficult times in my life. I feel like me leaving now would be the ultimate betrayal. He's finally coming to terms with a lot of his problems, including the dysfunctional relationship with his mother, abandonment by his father, and now the possibility of having been the victim of covert/emotional incest. Until he hurt me physically, I had no problem standing by him while he was working through those things. Maybe that's stupid....


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

WilliamM said:


> My wife's sister was abused, hospitalized several times by her husband, and has several scars from his battering. That type of abuse does not stop. It just keeps escalating.
> 
> Especially once the abuser gets you into a position where he thinks you are vulnerable. The more vulnerable you are, the more the abuse escalates.
> 
> ...


That sound like a cult. No Christian I know would ever tell a woman to stay with such an evil man.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Many preachers TELL women to stay with abusive husbands all the time, even in 2017. Saw an article headline on this a few months ago.

Biblical Battered Wife Syndrome: Christian Women and Domestic Violence | Religion Dispatches


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife was raised Pentecostal. She says they preach complete obedience, except in sex of course.

But her father was Mormon, and it was her father who knew of the abuse and called the husband to have him come and forcefully drag his wife back into the car to take her home.

Jim Jones was Baptist.

My wife knows a missionary couple who mentioned the one thing they don't have to teach women overseas is how to be obedient, which is so badly lacking in the USA.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Many preachers TELL women to stay with abusive husbands all the time, even in 2017. Saw an article headline on this a few months ago.
> 
> Biblical Battered Wife Syndrome: Christian Women and Domestic Violence | Religion Dispatches


I have never heard that said in 40 years as a Christian in many different churches and denominations.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ladyskraps said:


> You're right. When we first "met," we had so much in common and things just felt so right. For a little over a year, everything was literally perfect and I felt like I'd found my soul mate. That's when I first discovered the cheating. I was doing the same though. We both cheated on each other in the beginning. I attributed it to the distance. I stopped cheating, he didn't.
> Things, of course, never changed. But, in other ways, he helped and supported me through one of the most difficult times in my life. I feel like me leaving now would be the ultimate betrayal. He's finally coming to terms with a lot of his problems, including the dysfunctional relationship with his mother, abandonment by his father, and now the possibility of having been the victim of covert/emotional incest. Until he hurt me physically, I had no problem standing by him while he was working through those things. Maybe that's stupid....


While you might feel guilty for telling him that you would move with him, at this point it is clear that this is not a good idea for you. But I would suggest that even if you never do move to be with him now, you might have done him a huge favor in that you gave him the kick in the behind that he needed to get away from his mother. In the end, it just might be what he needed to break that codependency they had.

So even if you divorce him, you might very well have done him a huge favor. Even if he is angry as all get out at you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> So you met him while playing a video game. Did it not raise a red flag that a grown man was playing a video game? No hints about a lack of maturity or moral character right there?


Yea, it is almost as immature and lacking in moral character as all those strange people who spend hours a day on forums "talking" to people who not even be real. After all they should be living a real life and interacting with live people instead of avoiding life via a computer screen. >


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I have never heard that said in 40 years as a Christian in many different churches and denominations.


uh.... it's more common than not at all. Just because you don't see something, or never heard of something directly doesn't mean it didn't happen. (apply that to God as well, hmmm)

There are real preachers / ministers, what-not telling women to stay in abusive marriages.

Guess you haven't heard of the various preachers etc who have been caught having sex with their own married congregation, under-aged girls as well as other men. While screaming about how bad those very acts are... ?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> uh.... it's more common than not at all. Just because you don't see something, or never heard of something directly doesn't mean it didn't happen. (apply that to God as well, hmmm)
> 
> There are real preachers / ministers, what-not telling women to stay in abusive marriages.
> 
> Guess you haven't heard of the various preachers etc who have been caught having sex with their own married congregation, under-aged girls as well as other men. While screaming about how bad those very acts are... ?


 I havent known any church leaders who was caught doing any of those things, but of course these things happen in all walks of society. Nothing to do with telling an abused partner to stay in a marriage though. I know women who were in that position who were encouraged to leave by their churches.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Please stop the thread jack about what Church's do. 

{Speaking as a moderator.}


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

ladyskraps said:


> I agree that he's justified in feeling that way. I'm actually feeling really guilty about it. I can deal with everything else, the lying, cheating, etc as long as he seeks counseling and makes an effort to change. I never, ever, EVER saw any signs of him being potentially violent. If I move there, I'm on my own as well. My kids and I have no family in the area. If something like that or worse should happen like that, I'd be on my own. I'd be a 7 hour drive from my hometown and family. I'm not comfortable with that. And I'm not comfortable leaving my kids alone with someone can go into fits of rage like that. And he's not completely alone. He has cousins there. He also has a really good friend whom he works with who is letting him stay with him while he gets set up.


Yup. Just remember that although he's justified in that, it doesn't mean you should move in with him.

You may be better off filing for divorce. I hate recommending that, but it is what it is.


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