# Hey



## SurfsUpToday

I’m here because I don’t feel like I can talk to my wife about things. Every time I bring up my feelings and try to express them to her she fights me or as she says “challenges” me. I dont want to be challenged I just want to be listened to and empathized with. I’ve talked to other guys about it and they just don’t know how to deal with other guys feelings. So I’ve been daydreaming about how nice it would be to have a woman friend to just talk to and hear me. I don’t have any woman friends anymore it’s just a wish thing. Feel alone and floating in a massive ocean by myself. Anyway, thanks for listening.


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## re16

Do you feel like and your wife are a team, or is it her versus the world, and you are part of the world?

What sort of feelings are you talking about?


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## sweet.green.tea

That sounds like my husband. He is a fixer so if I come to him with a topic to simply vent about, he tries to fix it or he plays devils advocate to try and challenge my way of thinking to get me to figure out a solution myself. For some people, the hardest part of communicating is listening. It can be hard to find those listening type people. Maybe this forum will help. 😊


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## SurfsUpToday

sweet.green.tea said:


> That sounds like my husband. He is a fixer so if I come to him with a topic to simply vent about, he tries to fix it or he plays devils advocate to try and challenge my way of thinking to get me to figure out a solution myself. For some people, the hardest part of communicating is listening. It can be hard to find those listening type people. Maybe this forum will help. 😊


Ha. I am usually the fixer but I’ve had a bad time growing up and in my adult life with people just listening to me. Probably mostly my problem but in my head all I want is someone to listen and empathize. I could pay a therapist to do it but that doesn’t feel genuine to me.


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## SurfsUpToday

re16 said:


> Do you feel like and your wife are a team, or is it her versus the world, and you are part of the world?
> 
> What sort of feelings are you talking about?


That is a great question. She has said that she feels like she always needs to be a fighter. She grew up poor and without a father and her mom and her were always fighting to survive. My feelings are mostly about where my career life is going. I don’t like my job but I have no other skills really. I also recently survived a bout with covid and it attacked my heart so I have been on short term disability the last few months. That ends around Christmas and I am really dreading going back to my work and would rather find another job but I don’t see any that pay near what I am getting now, at least with the lack of skills I have. I just want to express the feelings about this and she challenges me on my feelings. Really puts me off.


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## jonty30

SurfsUpToday said:


> Ha. I am usually the fixer but I’ve had a bad time growing up and in my adult life with people just listening to me. Probably mostly my problem but in my head all I want is someone to listen and empathize. I could pay a therapist to do it but that doesn’t feel genuine to me.


I hear you. You want to be validated for your experience.
I've learned to listen and shut up.
One difference between men and women is how they tell their stories.

Men will say something like, "So, I went to the mechanic and he told me I needed spark plugs." Then he will give more details of the basic story. That's because men tend to give the reason for the story first before they go into details.

Women, however, will give all the details before wrapping up with, "Then the mechanic told me I needed new sparkplugs."

Maybe try smaller bites at a time, as men tend to have smaller attention spans and maybe less details. I totally get woman-speak, but men tend not to be as conversation detail oriented.


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## SurfsUpToday

jonty30 said:


> I hear you. You want to be validated for your experience.
> I've learned to listen and shut up.
> One difference between how men and women is how they tell their stories.
> 
> Men will say something like, "So, I went to the mechanic and he told me I needed spark plugs." Then he will give more details of the basic story.
> 
> Women, however, will give all the details before wrapping up with, "Then the mechanic told me I needed new sparkplugs."
> 
> Maybe try smaller bites at a time, as men tend to have smaller attention spans and maybe less details. I totally get woman-speak, but men tend not to be as conversation detail oriented.


very very true. I think a part of my problem is I will sit and listen to my wife for a very long time. Not interrupting because she doesn’t like that and remembering nearly everything told to me, but when I talk I’m constantly interrupted and she never remembers what I say. Part of is how I say it I am sure, but it hurts my feelings. Kind of she is do as I say not as I do. All of it really makes me not even talk about my own feelings with her. Feels easier to just deal with things in my life on my own than to bring them up to her and have yet another argument over my feelings.


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## sweet.green.tea

SurfsUpToday said:


> That is a great question. She has said that she feels like she always needs to be a fighter. She grew up poor and without a father and her mom and her were always fighting to survive. My feelings are mostly about where my career life is going. I don’t like my job but I have no other skills really. I also recently survived a bout with covid and it attacked my heart so I have been on short term disability the last few months. That ends around Christmas and I am really dreading going back to my work and would rather find another job but I don’t see any that pay near what I am getting now, at least with the lack of skills I have. I just want to express the feelings about this and she challenges me on my feelings. Really puts me off.


That can be tough when there's illness factored in to not feeling like you're on the same wavelength as your spouse. I'm sorry you had to be on disability, that's no fun. I think career path issues is a pretty common topic with couples. Maybe it'll be different when you return since you be been gone a while? I have been a stay at home Mom for 10 years now and this is the first time both kids are in school all day so I'm home alone now. I wouldn't mind going back to work but I'm nervous about starting up again. I have a bit of anxiety and being home for this long, it's built it up into something bigger. I did work at a little childrens boutique that allowed me to take my son to work with me but it was terrible working with snooty, entitled "mean girls" like in the movie. I felt like I was in high school all over again. I'm too old for that **** lol.. Anyway, I feel your pain. Work can suck sometimes.


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## SunCMars

SurfsUpToday said:


> Ha. I am usually the fixer but I’ve had a bad time growing up and in my adult life with people just listening to me. Probably mostly my problem but in my head all I want is someone to listen and empathize. *I could pay a therapist to do it but that doesn’t feel genuine to me.*


No, it can be genuine.
It is not only the money for them.

Therapists generally take pride in helping others.
Especially, if you see them over a long period.

I cannot speak from experience, just from what I have been told.
Others here will talk up Individual Counseling (therapy), not Marital Counseling (therapy).

Other married people, are often saying the same thing about their partners.
It is a too common occurrence, hence the ~50% divorce rate in the Western world.

Compatibility in marriage is a hard thing to land with and upon.


_Lilith-_


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## lifeistooshort

Somehow nobody is bringing up the fact that he's looking for a woman "friend"...."to talk to".

I wonder how a woman who came here looking for a male "friend" because her husband doesn't listen to her would be treated? I doubt she'd get much sympathy.

OP, would you be ok with your wife sniffing out a male "friend" to talk to? 

Before you sniff out an affair that "just happened" why don't you try some marriage counseling?


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## sweet.green.tea

I agree that counseling can be a helpful experience. Sometimes it's nice to explain things to an unbiased 3rd party and get the reassurance we need without fear of judgement or it affecting our day to day lives with our loved ones.


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## SunCMars

On finding a lady to talk to.....

Those 'other woman' may seem to have your back, and they often do.

Know this- Your wife will have your hide if you talk to one, hiding it, behind her back.

You can fish here for a kind ear, others do.

If you are a married man, the fishing on TAM is not productive.
The ladies here are too smart to bite on your unhappy, wiggling lure.

It is best to get divorced before you seek out 'another' sympathetic female ear.
Remember, they will give you their ear, but yours must be wide open and receptive.

Such this, two way dance.



_Nemesis-_


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## Al_Bundy

SurfsUpToday said:


> I could pay a therapist to do it but that doesn’t feel genuine to me.


A therapist would probably the most genuine. Also you married a woman who grew up without a father, so you can't be totally surprised that she doesn't know how to relate emotionally to a man and wants to challenge you.

As far as your career, what do you want to do? There's a lot of things that can be learned online. There's literally never been a better time to switch careers.


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## SunCMars

lifeistooshort said:


> *Somehow nobody is bringing up the fact that he's looking fir a woman "friend"...."to talk to".*
> 
> I wonder how a woman who came here looking for a male "friend" because her husband doesn't listen to her would be treated? I doubt she'd get much sympathy.
> 
> OP, would you be ok with your wife sniffing out a male "friend" to talk to?
> 
> Before you sniff out an affair that "just happened" why don't you try some marriage counseling?


We posted the same thought, moments apart.


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## SunCMars

Those sympathetic female ears.
Um.

Ah, more the reason we locked _The Typist_ in the closet.

He is now a medic on_ Mirth_, away from posting his heart-felt thoughts.



_King Brian-_


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## anchorwatch

You simply sound like a "Nice Guy" who doesn't know how to comfort that little boy inside of him.

Your wife is not responsible for your decision to stay in a distasteful job, you are! Do something about it if you don't like it, but don't put it on your wife.

Do you want someone else to give you validation for that? Do you think some other woman would pat you on the head and say oh you poor boy? That's not their job either. They would just look at you as someone looking for sympathy. That's not attractive to your wife or anyone else. That's why your wife challenges you. She wants you to stand up. She wouldn't talk to you as such if you did. 

HINT... No one else is not responsible for your haoppness, you are.

Best


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## LATERILUS79

lifeistooshort said:


> Somehow nobody is bringing up the fact that he's looking for a woman "friend"...."to talk to".
> 
> I wonder how a woman who came here looking for a male "friend" because her husband doesn't listen to her would be treated? I doubt she'd get much sympathy.
> 
> OP, would you be ok with your wife sniffing out a male "friend" to talk to?
> 
> Before you sniff out an affair that "just happened" why don't you try some marriage counseling?


I saw it the same way - but I'm wondering if he worded it incorrectly.

For example, I came here to speak with women to help me understand women better and thus, understand my wife's position better and in turn communicate with her better. I now have multiple "internet friends" that are women on this board, but I wouldn't consider it as seeking out an affair. I very much love my wife and the women here have helped a lot. I can't thank them enough. To be honest, I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking to women about marriage issues in real life. It would "feel" like an EA whereas TAM doesn't. 

If the OP meant it in the way you read his post, I'm 100% in agreement with you. It definitely read that way to me as well - I'm just hoping he worded it wrong.


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## lifeistooshort

LATERILUS79 said:


> I saw it the same way - but I'm wondering if he worded it incorrectly.
> 
> For example, I came here to speak with women to help me understand women better and thus, understand my wife's position better and in turn communicate with her better. I now have multiple "internet friends" that are women on this board, but I wouldn't consider it as seeking out an affair. I very much love my wife and the women here have helped a lot. I can't thank them enough. To be honest, I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking to women about marriage issues in real life. It would "feel" like an EA whereas TAM doesn't.
> 
> If the OP meant it in the way you read his post, I'm 100% in agreement with you. It definitely read that way to me as well - I'm just hoping he worded it wrong.


Fair point.

Hopefully he will clarify.


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## DownByTheRiver

SurfsUpToday said:


> Ha. I am usually the fixer but I’ve had a bad time growing up and in my adult life with people just listening to me. Probably mostly my problem but in my head all I want is someone to listen and empathize. I could pay a therapist to do it but that doesn’t feel genuine to me.


People are sometimes drawn to you because you're a fixer and have trouble seeing you as being vulnerable and sometimes needing some sympathy and some listening. I have had problems with that myself and I am a woman. I will completely delve into my friends issues if they want me to, but there was a time in my life when I had some real problems going on and I just don't think they were equipped to help and not comfortable trying. I think I looked so strong to them for so long because I am strong, that they just thought whatever my problem was that it couldn't really overcome me. I think you do have to sometimes sit those people down and let them know you're kind of in trouble and maybe just blatantly ask for their advice or for a friendly ear. But the same people who need fixers just may not be equipped to help a fixer.


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## BigDaddyNY

SurfsUpToday said:


> I’m here because I don’t feel like I can talk to my wife about things. Every time I bring up my feelings and try to express them to her she fights me or as she says “challenges” me. I dont want to be challenged I just want to be listened to and empathized with. I’ve talked to other guys about it and they just don’t know how to deal with other guys feelings. So I’ve been daydreaming about how nice it would be to have a woman friend to just talk to and hear me. I don’t have any woman friends anymore it’s just a wish thing. Feel alone and floating in a massive ocean by myself. Anyway, thanks for listening.


So you want to start an emotional affair with another woman, that is your stated goal. If you are talking to another woman about your emotions and your marriage you are having an affair. Before long you'll fall for you "friend" and it will likely become physical. Don't, just don't. If anything get outside help from a counselor if you can't fix your communication issues yourself.


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## gaius

BigDaddyNY said:


> So you want to start an emotional affair with another woman, that is your stated goal. If you are talking to another woman about your emotions and your marriage you are having an affair. Before long you'll fall for you "friend" and it will likely become physical. Don't, just don't. If anything get outside help from a counselor if you can't fix your communication issues yourself.


I don't foresee any women tearing their clothes off after listening to him release all his pent up feelings about his work prospects. Probably safe from any kind of affair.

The one place I see men doing what you're talking about is on Facebook. A bunch of my old male co workers are usually posting memes about male pain, how they're crying on the inside but have to look strong on the outside, all that stuff. There's probably support groups on there somewhere. Won't cost you a dime. 

Keep in mind though, there's a reason most of them are single or at least have serious relationship issues. It's usually received much better if you use those feelings to drive you to change whatever's bothering you, rather than dump them on your wife/girlfriend.


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## D0nnivain

Have you tried telling your wife that you simply want her to listen & not "challenge" you? 

A therapist might be a good idea. Just having a female friend to talk to is a very slippery slope toward an emotional affair & maybe worse. Don't go there. If you have a sister or female cousin, maybe but I suppose if you had that type of support you wouldn't be here asking.

Try journaling. Write your thoughts down. Lists & better yet, action steps, can be helpful. Think about what you want, where you can get the skills you need & then devise a strategy to achieve that.

Finally in a separate place, apart from the journal above, make a gratitude journal. Every morning write 3 things you are grateful for & again, 3 more at night. Try not to repeat. They can be profound or trivial. My down comforter often makes the list on cold winter days. Read your journal once per week. It will help elevate your mood & keep you focused on what you do have rather than fretting about what you are lacking. I'll start your list for you:

1. having a job
2. having short term disability
3. surviving Covid
4. having a loving wife (even if you are not happy about this communication issue right now)
5. finding TAM
6. having internet access so you can job hunt
7. having the ability to improve your skill set to get a better job

Now you keep going. 

Best wishes.


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## SurfsUpToday

Wow. Reread my post. No I not looking to have an affair or find women on here. What I meant to say and thought I had typed was in my past I had a lot of girl friends. Just friends I could talk to and they would understand me and basically pat me on the back and make me feel better about myself. I also was saying I kind of wish I could go back to that where I could share feelings without being chastised for them. So yes I said I wish I had that but it’s a wish my wife would listen to me like that, not I want to find that with someone else. Sorry for the confusion. I don’t lament my life very often, but lately I have been once or twice about my job and position in life. I’m not walking around being mopey. When I do share my feelings I’d rather not be challenged about my feelings.


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## BigDaddyNY

SurfsUpToday said:


> Wow. Reread my post. No I not looking to have an affair or find women on here. What I meant to say and thought I had typed was in my past I had a lot of girl friends. Just friends I could talk to and they would understand me and basically pat me on the back and make me feel better about myself. I also was saying I kind of wish I could go back to that where I could share feelings without being chastised for them. So yes I said I wish I had that but it’s a wish my wife would listen to me like that, not I want to find that with someone else. Sorry for the confusion. I don’t lament my life very often, but lately I have been once or twice about my job and position in life. I’m not walking around being mopey. When I do share my feelings I’d rather not be challenged about my feelings.


Glad to hear that we read too much into your post.

I guess your wife doesn't understand she can't say your feelings are wrong. They are your feelings. She is trying to invalidate your feelings. Maybe to manipulate you. Maybe to just rush you passed whatever is bothering you. She may not be able to deal with or process your emotions. Try to have your wife read a few short articles that may, hopefully, help her understand what she is doing and how to change. 









How to have a conversation - Uncovering Intimacy


Do you know how to have a conversation? Are you sure? A lot of people think they know, but they're really just skilled at talking, not conversation.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












8 ways to respond to your spouse sharing how they're feeling (only one is good) - Uncovering Intimacy


Not sure how to respond to your spouse when they're sharing about their difficult day? Here are 8 ways (only one is good).




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












The 5 Levels of Communication - Uncovering Intimacy


In yesterday’s post, I mentioned the 5 levels of communication, and suddenly realized I had not yet written a post about them. So, that’s what I’m going to do today. The 5 levels of communication are not something I can take credit for. In fact,




www.uncoveringintimacy.com


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## theloveofmylife

SurfsUpToday said:


> My feelings are mostly about where my career life is going. I don’t like my job but I have no other skills really. I also recently survived a bout with covid and it attacked my heart so I have been on short term disability the last few months. That ends around Christmas and I am really dreading going back to my work and would rather find another job but I don’t see any that pay near what I am getting now, at least with the lack of skills I have. I just want to express the feelings about this and she challenges me on my feelings. Really puts me off.


To me, it sounds like vulnerability in general makes her uncomfortable but especially from her man. She also may be feeling a bit scared when you're talking about finding another (and lower paying) job. 

I'd point blank ask her not to interrupt or challenge. Make it clear that you need her to just listen. Be calm and nice, but also firm.

Maybe go back to your job but also work on gaining some new skills so you can move onto something better. Framed that way, maybe she wouldn't fret so much when you try to talk about it.


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## D0nnivain

SurfsUpToday said:


> Wow. Reread my post. No I not looking to have an affair or find women on here. What I meant to say and thought I had typed was in my past I had a lot of girl friends. Just friends I could talk to and they would understand me and basically pat me on the back and make me feel better about myself. I also was saying I kind of wish I could go back to that where I could share feelings without being chastised for them. So yes I said I wish I had that but it’s a wish my wife would listen to me like that, not I want to find that with someone else. Sorry for the confusion. I don’t lament my life very often, but lately I have been once or twice about my job and position in life. I’m not walking around being mopey. When I do share my feelings I’d rather not be challenged about my feelings.


I didn't read your post as you saying you wanted an affair. What I read was somebody who wanted an outlet, a female friend to talk to & you want it to be your wife. My caution was simply that: a warning. That if you found a female friend to talk to it would be too easy for boundaries to get crossed. 

I also didn't get the sense that you were mopey all the time. I did understand that you wanted the occasional pat on the back & an ear to listen when you needed to talk. We all need that sometimes. However, we also need to be that for ourselves. Hence my suggestions on how you could help yourself. I did not mean to offend or accuse. 

With the above explanatory post you seem more self aware. That's great! 

One question though -- can you define a bit more how she challenges you? If any comment other than wholehearted unwavering support is viewed negatively by you then you may need to rethink things. Asking questions or offering alternatives is not always a negative. She may need more info to help or to nudge you to consider a different perspective then find a solution. A dialogue is not a bad thing.


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