# Walk away spouse and finances.. advice?



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

First, thank you for this forum!

My wife has left the marriage three times in the past 5 months. It's been a cycle - disappear for a couple of weeks, contact, come back, perfect feeling marriage for a few weeks, disappear again. Her personality does a 180 within a matter of a few minutes, something new for her. She has no such history in the past. She admitted to cheating last year and has been in and out of contact with the other person. She is currently gone and may well be living with him. I don't know. She claims that I have been a wonderful husband and that there's nothing wrong with me. She "just has to get her head straight." I don't even know what that means.

We've been married four years, no kids. Most everything is in our names jointly. I have been the primary provider financially. She currently doesn't have a job. Where ever she is, she's driving a car that is in my name. I'm paying her auto insurance and her cell phone. She has accessed our joint bank account once, but I moved all of the money out of that account now.

I'm looking for advice here. Should I cut her off completely - ask for the car to be returned, cut the cell service, insurance, and open new accounts? And if so, any advice on how to do that without being a butt?

I know this may seem obvious to some of you, but please understand that I'm the type to worry about her well being.


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I don't know the answer to your questions. Talk to a lawyer ASAP and file. Since everything is joint property, assume for now that it'll be split 50/50. You don't want to get in trouble for putting joint money in a separate account, but I totally get wanting to protect it.

Don't wait. If she's unstable, your money and credit history could be in jeopardy. If she or you want to work on the marriage moving forward, that's still fine. You can always remarry if she earns your love and trust again. But right now you have to protect yourself.

I'm sorry you're here!


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

She certainly sounds unstable, and a poor excuse for a life-mate. Ask yourself why you are willing to put up with this behavior. Cheating, unreliable, unstable.

You can always seek a legal separation and separate finances. I would think that with her instability it would be prudent for your financial protection. How do you know what she's up to when she poofs away. If you don't want to divorce her that's entirely your call, but a separation agreement could protect you from her instability.


----------



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

This woman def. sounds like a wild one. 

I would keep money separate still yet talk with lawyer. For all you know, she could be on drugs or a self-destructive path, so it is best for your finances to be kept away from her. If you can somehow get her to sign D papers, then judge can order maintenance, but for now it would be advisable to start throwing into a savings account money that would probably be awarded to her, so you can prove to court you had every intention to be equitable with finances, but was worried about decision-making impairment on her part...such as drugs, mental disorder, etc.

Do not give her this money until judge tells you to...or something else legally is worked out.

Document her behavior, dates leaving/returning as well as conversations...you need to establish that this women is unstable. I know borderline personality disorder can surface in adulthood.

Stop paying her cell. Don't support this unacceptable behavior one bit.

As for insurance..anything that happens to that car...is going to affect you. Was car purchased before marriage? If so, yes...get it back! If purchased after marriage...and solely in your name...in divorce situation, it is community property, but i don't know what that means in a "hey I'm taking the car and falling off the face of the earth" situation. You may be able to report it stolen...just please check with lawyer.

Get a lawyer...don't stay in this marriage. 4 years and she starts acting up like this out of the blue? Yes, could be because she got the cheating bug, but likely it was always been there.

Right now, to her, you are her fallback when the fun runs out. At the same time, she doesn't respect you enough to knock it off. So I would advise for you not to let her back into your life. If she has family...drag her stuff to them. I hope you don't own a home with her...if so, be prepared to sell it at time of D.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I highly suggest you take half the $$$ out of the joint acct. and set one up in your name only and after that run to a lawyer and file asap.


----------



## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

So much familiarity here. Yes! you must consult with an attorney and file. This will not get any better. Only 4 years and no children? Run! You will get off lightly.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

pwnc said:


> First, thank you for this forum!
> 
> My wife has left the marriage three times in the past 5 months. It's been a cycle - disappear for a couple of weeks, contact, come back, perfect feeling marriage for a few weeks, disappear again. Her personality does a 180 within a matter of a few minutes, something new for her. She has no such history in the past. She admitted to cheating last year and has been in and out of contact with the other person. She is currently gone and may well be living with him. I don't know. She claims that I have been a wonderful husband and that there's nothing wrong with me. She "just has to get her head straight." I don't even know what that means.
> 
> ...


Have you let her immediate family know what she is up to?
Anyway smart of you to move the money.
Lawyer today if not sooner.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

tom67, I haven't told her immediate family. I've been trying to do everything to avoid this turning into an ugly situation. They would be shocked. She presents us on FaceBook as if we are still a very happy couple. I have to wonder how the other man feels about that. Weird.

I have taken the consistent advice from this forum and I have an appointment with my lawyer.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

northernlights said:


> I don't know the answer to your questions. Talk to a lawyer ASAP and file. Since everything is joint property, assume for now that it'll be split 50/50. *You don't want to get in trouble for putting joint money in a separate account, but I totally get wanting to protect it.*
> 
> Don't wait. If she's unstable, your money and credit history could be in jeopardy. If she or you want to work on the marriage moving forward, that's still fine. You can always remarry if she earns your love and trust again. But right now you have to protect yourself.
> 
> I'm sorry you're here!


Just clarify for the OP. He will not get in trouble for putting joint money in a separate account in his name only. Joint accounts are not required in marriage.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

pwnc said:


> First, thank you for this forum!
> 
> My wife has left the marriage three times in the past 5 months. It's been a cycle - disappear for a couple of weeks, contact, come back, perfect feeling marriage for a few weeks, disappear again. Her personality does a 180 within a matter of a few minutes, something new for her. She has no such history in the past. She admitted to cheating last year and has been in and out of contact with the other person. She is currently gone and may well be living with him. I don't know. She claims that I have been a wonderful husband and that there's nothing wrong with me. She "just has to get her head straight." I don't even know what that means.
> 
> ...


See a lawyer ASAP and get the divorce filed. 
If she has no job, how is she living? For all you know she has opened a bunch of credit cards in your name and is charging them up to the hilt. Run your credit report. I would run hers too. Find out what your situation is.
If she is running up credit card bill, depending on your state, you are liable for 50%. And if she cannot pay them, you are liable for 100%.
Do not put any more money in the joint account. As long as there is a good audit tail of where the money has gone, you are ok putting it in an account in your own name. If you have health insurance for her, do not cancel it yet. Generally health insurance has to remain intact until the divorce is final.

Do not take the car back, stop the insurance or her cell service until you talk to an attorney. For one thing you want her to get a job asap. She can ask the court for interim spousal support (30%-50% of your income) until the divorce is final. She’ll get it. So do not do anything that stands in the way of her getting a job.

Bottom line is the above and what others are telling you is just input from our experiences. You need to talk to an attorney ASAP before she puts you in real bind.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

pwnc said:


> They would be shocked. She presents us on FaceBook as if we are still a very happy couple. I have to wonder how the other man feels about that.


Don't worry about him, he's getting his needs met.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Briefly spoke to my attorney over the phone today. He did say I was right to move the money to safeguard the money for paying bills and such. He also said that I should refrain from communicating with her about joint property or finances until he and I can talk more in depth. And, he said that I should hold off on canceling any of the things I'm currently paying for. I'm hoping to get more time with him tomorrow or Monday. 

I'm trying to just stay in a protect myself mode at this point.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Definitely cancel ALL credit cards, debit cards that she may have.

She is banging POSOM on your dime. Bet the farm they are laid up in bed

laughing at how they got one over on you. 

Give defiant people what they want..... for it rarely ever turns out as they had planned.

Your W and that guy.... they are living in a fantasy

time to make it real...


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Definitely cancel ALL credit cards, debit cards that she may have.
> 
> She is banging POSOM on your dime. Bet the farm they are laid up in bed
> 
> ...


I would let her family know what is going on after you file you may as well get the truth out.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

tom67 said:


> I would let her family know what is going on after you file you may as well get the truth out.


:iagree:

It's time the family and friends were 'let in' on this guy's W's

Grand Illusion. FB is a giant myth.... everyone's happy, smiling,

kids are on honor roll, couples are so in love

it reminds me a lot of Orwell's 1984 more and more


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I suggest you purchase a voice activated recorder and keep it on you when dealing with her she will not like her new reality and may play dirty.
Cover all bases.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

pwnc said:


> She currently doesn't have a job. Where ever she is, *she's driving a car that is in my name. I'm paying her auto insurance and her cell phone*. She has accessed our joint bank account once, but I moved all of the money out of that account now.
> 
> I'm looking for advice here. Should I cut her off completely - ask for the car to be returned, cut the cell service, insurance, and open new accounts?


YES. 

Get your ducks in a row.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I would also recommend selling the car. Let the POSOM tote her arse around.

There is a good bet this guy is not only in it for the sex but the enjoyment 

of doing things on another man's dime


----------



## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

pwnc said:


> First, thank you for this forum!
> 
> My wife has left the marriage three times in the past 5 months. It's been a cycle - disappear for a couple of weeks, contact, come back, perfect feeling marriage for a few weeks, disappear again. Her personality does a 180 within a matter of a few minutes, something new for her. She has no such history in the past. She admitted to cheating last year and has been in and out of contact with the other person. She is currently gone and may well be living with him. I don't know. She claims that I have been a wonderful husband and that there's nothing wrong with me. She "just has to get her head straight." I don't even know what that means.
> 
> ...


pwnc, you have gotten excellent advice here, and I'm glad to read that you are going to have a lawyer start working on getting you out of this situation.

I would like to suggest that you seek some counseling. You seem to have extremely low self-esteem, possibly to the point of co-dependency. You have very poor boundary control with respect to what you will and will not tolerate in a relationship.

You need to work on these things on your way to a better life, and a counselor can help you immensely.

And you should also consider yourself blessed that you didn't have children with this woman. You will be able to start over fresh and find a better one. So make sure you get your head on straight so that you don't just find ANOTHER one (just like this one).


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Yes, lots of great advice on here. 

I have been in counseling since the first time she left in November. I'm normally a fairly confident, outgoing guy, but I got starry-eyed with the dream of finding the "right one." I don't have a problem attracting sane, self-sufficient women, but I seem to have a drive to engage with women who need care. I'm working through that before I get into another relationship. 

The meeting with the attorney was not as satisfying as I would have liked. He did say that I could cancel the all the cards and close the joint accounts, but because she owns half of the family land that I'm committed to pass down to my son, he suggested I move slowly in cutting her off completely. The best outcome, in his opinion, is to entice her into signing a separation agreement in which she agrees to take her name off of the land and the business while at the same time preparing for the worse. Either way, with the agreement, or going to court, he's convinced I'll come out with the land and business since I can prove infidelity and abandonment. Meanwhile, the money is protected. 

I still feel like a doormat by paying insurance, phone and car, but the attorney insists I have patience and keep the end game in mind. 

Still no contact from her, but I can see from stupid facebook that she's left the area. And she did try to reach out by pretending to be her sister. I didn't reply. Too much of a childish game. 

The anger finally kicked in. I've been waiting for it.

I'm ready for this to be over and to move on!


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

There might be grounds you can utilize since she abandoned you.

"Wiggle easy until you get your head out of the lion's mouth"

Pop used that quote a lot. Men love to swoop in and save the day, 

y'know.... like in fairy tales. But in fairy tales they only have to do it once.

In real life..... that is not the case. Just as you would want your IC to 

challenge you, you should want a female who challenges you.

Can't you have the land deeded to the children when they are... say 30?


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

So, you folks with experience can tell me if this is part of the script. W is starting to act angry now that she knows I'm asking for a separation agreement and moving on.

As I said before, my attorney told me to continue paying the insurance, car payment, and phone until she contacted me - to keep her happy so she would agree to sign a separation agreement putting the big stuff back in my name. 

Well, I heard from her. Of course, it's because she's out of money. No more left in the joint accounts. So asks me to sign so she can cash in her retirement (not very much). In the same email she says I can have the car, and cancel the insurance and phone. On my lawyer's advice, I agree in exchange for her signing a separation agreement putting the property and business back in my name and removing her claims. I don't think she expected that response. It's a 180 for me up to this point. I was nice, but very firm that we needed to get this done as soon as possible so we both could move on. 

I heard back from her tonight. Her tone was very short. She now says I can have the car back if I pay her back for the few payments she made on it. She wants to review the separation agreement. She says cut the phone off as soon possible and she'll give it to me. It was the tone that was so different. 

Makes me think, how can SHE be angry at me. She made these choices and these are the consequences. I promised myself that I wouldn't do anything punitive or vindictive. I want to leave this on the high road and with no regrets. It's so difficult when she's starting to get a tone.

Is this par for the course with a cheating walk away?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> First, thank you for this forum!
> 
> My wife has left the marriage three times in the past 5 months. It's been a cycle - disappear for a couple of weeks, contact, come back, perfect feeling marriage for a few weeks, disappear again. Her personality does a 180 within a matter of a few minutes, something new for her. She has no such history in the past. She admitted to cheating last year and has been in and out of contact with the other person. She is currently gone and may well be living with him. I don't know. She claims that I have been a wonderful husband and that there's nothing wrong with me. She "just has to get her head straight." I don't even know what that means.
> 
> ...


First off, HALLELUJAH!!!

Second, cut her out of your life -- hard, now, and permanently -- and move on w/o her. As far as canceling accounts, credit cards, cell phones, etc goes, just do it. You don't have to be an ass about it, but do it anyway.

I wouldn't cancel the auto insurance on the car, though... at least not w/o first selling it or getting it out of your name. Actually, talk w/ a lawyer about it. If you can do it in such a way that you're not on the hook for anything that may happen (accident, etc) involving the car, do it.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> So, you folks with experience can tell me if this is part of the script. W is starting to act angry now that she knows I'm asking for a separation agreement and moving on.
> 
> As I said before, my attorney told me to continue paying the insurance, car payment, and phone until she contacted me - to keep her happy so she would agree to sign a separation agreement putting the big stuff back in my name.
> 
> ...


Eh... _sorta_. She's actually being a bit more generous than your typical WAS. Take advantage of whatever fog she's in and get it done.

The unjustifiably indignant anger is pretty much spot-on, though.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

If you can get locked down early, take full advantage

once she comes out of the fog a bit, she will be very angry

But that's her problem.... she needs the $ to keep that POSOM around

when her $ is gone..... so will he

Be aware..... be prepared..... be at 50k feet


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Sounds like drugs could be involved here!


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Full disclosure - I was on a similar forum when she left the first time back in November. Then, I was looking for strategies to get her back. I got a lot of "get a lawyer" and "get the hell out." Good advice. But I only got as far as calling the lawyer and then she came back and I chickened out, took her back, repeated this twice before this time. 

During this whole ordeal, my focus has been on her. The difference this time is the focus is on me - protecting my interests and believing that I deserve someone who loves and respects me. The part where I feel like I'm a man again, feels great!

The man is going to win, but what's frustrating is that there is still a part of me that gets excited about the idea of her coming back remorseful and all. I keep battling that part and trying to make it go away. It's just unbelievable that I would even have those feelings. The list of horrible things she's done to me in the past 6 months is long and unreal. 

For example, my counselor has cautioned me that by manning up, being indifferent to her, watching out for myself and moving on, there's a possibility that she might come out of her daze and start chasing me. If I'm honest with myself, there's a part of me that gets excited about the idea. But, my for-too-long-asleep-at-the-wheel man says, "@&%# that!"

Have any of you dealt with that? How? Doesn't seem logical.

BTW, legal separation agreement will be ready on Monday. Takes a year for divorce where I live.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Full disclosure - I was on a similar forum when she left the first time back in November. Then, I was looking for strategies to get her back. I got a lot of "get a lawyer" and "get the hell out." Good advice. But I only got as far as calling the lawyer and then she came back and I chickened out, took her back, repeated this twice before this time.
> 
> During this whole ordeal, my focus has been on her. The difference this time is the focus is on me - protecting my interests and believing that I deserve someone who loves and respects me. The part where I feel like I'm a man again, feels great!
> 
> ...


Concentrate and work on YOU.
Pretty soon you will be at 50,000 feet and won't care what she does.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I was a lost child when mine started, after the fall into the rabbit hole, things changed

in the end I was 10 foot tall and bullet proof (no drinking) and she had bumps 

all over her face from nerves (shingles). 6 weeks after the D final

she offered me a home cooked meal (yes one of my favs), she would be alone all weekend

(no grown son around), I was more than welcome to come.

I swear to God it was the easiest choice I made. I went to my new gf's apartment, 

had a pizza, watched a movie, went to bed for the night. Yes I told her a week later.

My future was not with someone from my past. Best decision I ever made.

We broke up later but.... with my XW I would have never touched stars in the sky

I did with new gal.


----------



## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I wonder if you can get it setback so you don't have to wait the year since she has been out of the house since November. I mean that is really why they do that to give a cooling off period. 

In my stated for 9 years the wait was 21 days. I almost danced when I was told that. Life is so much better when you get rid of a cheater. Just imagine how wonderful things will be for mr right when he figures out she is cheating on him. 

My xW recently did that to the guy she cheated on me with. I had a smile that wouldn't quit for a week when I found that out. 

Your doing great so just keep pushing forward. 

Clay


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Keep having dreams about my wife, so I couldn't sleep. Decided to get up.

The attorney still doesn't have the separation papers ready. Every day that goes by, I feel stuck in limbo. I need to move forward. 

W has been contacting me about cashing in her retirement (very small amount of money). I told her go ahead. Our communication has been very short. She's tried to make it light. I've just been business. So, being out of contact like that has made things easier for me. I'm just ready to get our stuff settled, so I can really move on.

Clay, unfortunately, in my state, you can't move up the D. So, it's still a year. 

I'm still having ups and downs, but the downs don't seem as deep as they were before. I've been re-focusing on my work and I've been getting out. I'm trying to view this as a gift of a new start. Sometimes memories of the good times pop up and make me sad for a while, but I guess that's to be expected.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

The good memories are normal.... they will soon fade

the bad times will then be what you think about

let the bad times run their course

when she tries to slither back to you

you will recall why you filed for D


----------



## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

pwnc said:


> So, you folks with experience can tell me if this is part of the script. W is starting to act angry now that she knows I'm asking for a separation agreement and moving on.
> 
> As I said before, my attorney told me to continue paying the insurance, car payment, and phone until she contacted me - to keep her happy so she would agree to sign a separation agreement putting the big stuff back in my name.
> 
> ...




My almost XW is doing the same thing. Its blame shifting. She doesnt want to face the plain facts that she made the choices that have led to her current situation. Strap in for one hell of divorce ride from her. Always take the high road, the Judge will eventually see through it in the end. Concentrate on her instability.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Notice her instability but focus on YOU and ways to improve you... for the future


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Well, I feel like I feel off the horse the last couple of days. I had a great day and evening Friday. Lot's of work done and a good night out with friends. But yesterday I got stuck here at home. Didn't feel like getting out or doing anything. Today, I went out of town with a friend. It was a pretty good distraction, but my mind was on my wife, or I should say, the old version of my wife. 

The separation papers are finally ready. I have to get ready to face that tomorrow and get some movement. 

These emotions are like a dang roller coaster. I try so hard not to, but I can't help being sad that the good times are gone.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Well, I feel like I feel off the horse the last couple of days. I had a great day and evening Friday. Lot's of work done and a good night out with friends. But yesterday I got stuck here at home. Didn't feel like getting out or doing anything. Today, I went out of town with a friend. It was a pretty good distraction, but my mind was on my wife, or I should say, the old version of my wife.
> 
> The separation papers are finally ready. I have to get ready to face that tomorrow and get some movement.
> 
> These emotions are like a dang roller coaster. I try so hard not to, but I can't help being sad that the good times are gone.


What you are going through is normal. You're going to make it man.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I avoided email this weekend. I just had a feeling about it. 

Two emails from the W. One was very strange. Accused me of being unfair, always unfair because I talked to her family. 

Thing is, I didn't talk to her family. Weird!

Second one was to ask about the status of the separation.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Like Bandit.45 said, I guess this is all normal. 

I had a breakdown this afternoon. No specific reason, just felt like I was going to panic and couldn't breathe right. Got a friend on the phone. I was so dang emotional. I'm not sure what brought it on, but it felt the way I've felt when someone close to me has died. It's like the woman I fell in love with doesn't exist anymore - she died. 

Sometimes, I feel like a real wuss when I read stories about people who have been married for years and decades. There are so many situations on here that are much worse than mine. This is my second marriage and my 3rd long term relationship. My first M was 6 years, then I had an 11-year LTR, this M has lasted 4 years. I don't know why I'm taking this one worse than the others. I put so much into this one, learning from a lot of the mistakes I made before. Guess I had more to learn. 

She's reached out by email 4 times today - between angry and apologetic. Mad at me because I talked to her family (I didn't), then apologized and said, "of course you can talk to my family anytime you want, I'm just not ready for them to know." Then mad because she heard rumors that I filed the separation papers without her (I didn't), then another apology that I haven't fully read yet. 

I only answer with business. Ex, didn't talk to your family, didn't file papers, requires both signatures, will send tomorrow.

Hope I'm on the right track.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your meltdown is very normal. what you are going through is the normal emotional rollercoaster.

I think that one of the reasons you are taking this breakup very hard is that it's a loss. Every time we experience a loss, we re-experience all of our past losses. Even if you are not consciously doing that, it happens subconsciously. It's like we have to put them all in a new perspective. 

It sounds like you are doing well by not responding any more than you have to. Just keep doing that, ignore her emails, etc as much as you can.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

pwnc said:


> Full disclosure - I was on a similar forum when she left the first time back in November. Then, I was looking for strategies to get her back. I got a lot of "get a lawyer" and "get the hell out." Good advice. But I only got as far as calling the lawyer and then she came back and I chickened out, took her back, repeated this twice before this time.
> 
> During this whole ordeal, my focus has been on her. The difference this time is the focus is on me - protecting my interests and believing that I deserve someone who loves and respects me. The part where I feel like I'm a man again, feels great!
> 
> ...


 Honestly why would you want her back? she isn't a wife, she a pain in the ass and doing nothing but making your life miserable. 

If you stop payment on the car insurance do one thing and make sure you take the plate off the car too. even though there's no insurance, it can still be driven just as long as she doesn't get in a accident or pulled over by a cop. Take the plate for just that reason.

If she left you three times already in such a short time and you keep taking her back, then it's now a habit with her and your making it for her.

Give her the papers and move on and find someone of better quality.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

So, she e-mailed and asked me to explain what would be in the draft of the separation agreement. So, I did. The only question was the car. My lawyer suggested that I pay the car off and give it to her if she couldn't make payments. So, I asked if she could make payments.

Well, up til then our last few e-mails had been short but cordial. I reassured her that I didn't want anything from her, just to be able to get this done and move on. But her reply was so angry - that I know she can't make car payments, she gave up her job for me, she has nothing to eat, that I took all the money from the bank, that I'm using the money to enjoy myself. 

Half of me wants to write back an angry e-mail explaining that no of those things are my choice. She made the choices. She has to live with the consequences. In fact, she's made a bunch of choices for me that I didn't ask for or take part in.

The other half says just stick to business and get the papers done ASAP.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

pwnc said:


> Well, up til then our last few e-mails had been short but cordial. I reassured her that I didn't want anything from her, just to be able to get this done and move on. But her reply was so angry - that I know she can't make car payments, she gave up her job for me, she has nothing to eat, that I took all the money from the bank, that I'm using the money to enjoy myself.
> .


Here's what I feel like replying - "Of course I don't know if you can make car payments. In fact, I don't know anything, and haven't for the past six months or more, about your secret life. I don't know where you live, who you live with, if you have a job - nothing. You chose not to talk to me except when you needed something from me. You chose to quit your job to 'work on the marriage' and then you chose to leave that same marriage without working on it. You chose to leave a home with plenty of food and no worries about finances. You chose to leave me with no explanation thereby causing me to worry about what might happen to the savings and the business. I chose to protect the assets. I chose to start working on myself. I chose to get a life and try to be happy in spite of the situation" 

Or better yet, maybe I should just respond, "You're right. I should buy you some food. To whom do I make out the check, you or [email protected]%$^ (the OM)?"


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

definitely the former....i like that one.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

So any of you with experience have some input on how to handle this misplaced anger? I don't want to be a doormat, but I want to get out of this separation with as few financial scars as possible. Met with the attorney today and he tells me it's my job not to piss her off and to get her to sign. Tough order when someone is practically spitting in your face and you want tell them how it is!


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Like Bandit.45 said, I guess this is all normal.
> 
> I had a breakdown this afternoon. No specific reason, just felt like I was going to panic and couldn't breathe right. Got a friend on the phone. I was so dang emotional. I'm not sure what brought it on, but it felt the way I've felt when someone close to me has died. It's like the woman I fell in love with doesn't exist anymore - she died.
> 
> ...


I so get this. When my pop died, I was stone faced. I had to take care of mom.

When I was alone, yes I lost it. But I had to put someone before me. I so get it.

I shed tears from my 1st love (1988-90), 2nd love (1991-96), XW (1997-2012)

and UG (2013-14). You loved and lost. But with your W, everyone will lose.

It's not you..... it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

I swear to God I hated that statement when I was younger.... but it's true.

You can't save everyone.... you have to save yourself. Maybe she will someday

look in the mirror and realize.... but don't expect it. Just work on you.

Do the things you didn't because...... she didn't like it.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Here's what I feel like replying - "Of course I don't know if you can make car payments. In fact, I don't know anything, and haven't for the past six months or more, about your secret life. I don't know where you live, who you live with, if you have a job - nothing. You chose not to talk to me except when you needed something from me. You chose to quit your job to 'work on the marriage' and then you chose to leave that same marriage without working on it. You chose to leave a home with plenty of food and no worries about finances. You chose to leave me with no explanation thereby causing me to worry about what might happen to the savings and the business. I chose to protect the assets. I chose to start working on myself. I chose to get a life and try to be happy in spite of the situation"
> 
> Or better yet, maybe I should just respond, "You're right. I should buy you some food. To whom do I make out the check, you or [email protected]%$^ (the OM)?"


any time you do not say exactly what she wants to hear

she will get angry

you were supposed to be her doormat

get used to telling her "I'm sorry you feel that way"

note she can not respond to this...


----------



## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

Becareful what you say in an email!

Whatever you write can be used against you!


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> I so get this. When my pop died, I was stone faced. I had to take care of mom.
> 
> When I was alone, yes I lost it. But I had to put someone before me. I so get it.
> 
> ...


Chuck71, thank you for sharing that. It feels exactly like mourning a death since the person you knew is no longer there. 

It seems she's been doing some looking in the mirror today. I can tell by the up and down nature of her texts as we deal with business that she's panicking some - probably realizing for the first time that there are consequences. I even got an "I love you" and an "I miss you." this evening. So weird.

Got to stay strong.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Now her family is reaching out to me - asking to talk - something they haven't done before. 

I need a little peace.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Now her family is reaching out to me - asking to talk - something they haven't done before.
> 
> I need a little peace.


I think that I'd respectfully request that they mind their own damn business.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Would you consider a R? If you don't..... just ignore.

My XW died about the same time her mother did. She was a walking corpse

the last few years. I would sometimes see glimpses of the old her

but it was few..... and fleeting


----------



## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Now her family is reaching out to me - asking to talk - something they haven't done before.
> 
> I need a little peace.


Okay…
This is the time where you need to be careful and focus on the END GAME. If you are not sure about what you want…get CLEAR.
Then keep that in mind. Sounds like you aren’t anywhere near wanting reconciliation so your job right now is to follow your lawyers advice and keep her as mellow as possible.

Since she is seeing a different side of you now, she may want to R…or at least tell herself that since she is now glimpsing what she will be missing.
If her relatives call or text, just tell them “This is something you need to take up with her.”
DON’T give them the “it’s over” Speech. 
They are probing for information that they will feed right back to her.
IF they ask if you are open to R, just say “I’m not sure. Once we get some things straightened out, I will give it some thought.”
This will prompt her to WANT to settle up.

Once she settles up and things are on paper, then you can go cold on her.
Remember to shoot for “fair”…you want to be able to sleep at night.

In my mind, this thing is done and over, but she may be thinking differently.

ALWAYS come here for perspective before you agree on anything she suggests.
Run stuff by your lawyer if you are even in the slightest doubt.

I feel for you, but now is the time to be cool.


----------



## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Now her family is reaching out to me - asking to talk - something they haven't done before.
> 
> I need a little peace.


Be careful with this. They want to get information from you. ANY information you give them will get back to her. Whether its to feel you out for R or D or in between. The absolute best way to handle this, is to go dark if you want D. The only information transfer is via your attorney. 

If R, then its trickier. You have much more emotional investment in this marriage than your first. You will not only need your Wife to change, but you will also have to get her family to wholeheartedly go along with that as well. Never forget, blood is thicker than water. They will never want her hurt, If you push for her change too quickly, that's how they will see it, and back off any support. Remember, if you divorce her, she becomes more their problem.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Great advice. 

Three new things I want to run by you here. 

First, I've heard from a brother-in-law that the parents are upset with her and want us to R. I didn't talk to the parents, I just sent a message that I'm too busy the next few days. I do want to talk to them just because I like them a lot, but I'm not sure it's for me to be the one to tell them what happened.

Second, dammit, I'm having second thoughts and I'm not as clear as I was before about D being the end game. When I look at this from an outside perspective, I have to ask WTF am I doing. My heart and my brain are screaming at each other.

Third, she was supposed to come over today while I was away to pick up her stuff. She didn't take anything when she left a month ago. I came home expecting an empty room where I had her stuff. Instead, I came home to her having washed the dishes, done all of my laundry, folded the clothes, cleaned the house and bedroom. Her stuff is still where I left it. ???


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Great advice.
> 
> Three new things I want to run by you here.
> 
> ...


The very same day we filed for D, STBXW was cleaning the house

the house she was not going to get. From what you say, this M is dead

and it needs to be killed. Not a thing wrong with working on a R while 

D final nears. You can legally marry someone the same day you D them.

My parents were "retreads." Couple years later though. But it's a decision

you have to make. Share you thoughts here......

everyone can give insight.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

It's a hard realization, but yesterday made it clear that I'm causing most of the problems I'm experiencing. 

I feel genuinely depressed again today. I thought I was ready to move on. I thought I was immune to her actions. I thought the days obsessing over when she might call or text were over. I thought I could stay the course. I thought I was in a place where I was sure I never wanted her to come back. I'm not there. 

If she meant to plow up old feelings by cleaning the house and leaving her stuff lying around in strategic places, it worked. It made me want her to walk through the door again. 

I texted her and thanked her last night for the the things she did around the house yesterday. At least, I was true to my commitment not to seem needy, so it was a simple "thank you." But now, I'm obsessing over why I haven't heard back from her. 

I'm really angry with myself. I've brought this on myself. I could have changed the locks on the doors and left her stuff somewhere to pick up. Instead, I'm allowing her to walk back into my life and put me back on the rollercoaster. I don't understand why. I have never had more clarity on the course I should take that is best for me, but I'm not taking it. Somewhere inside me, I'm still holding on to a hope that we will R and that things will be better. My mind just keeps screaming "WTF?"

I don't know what to do. Now it's less of a fight with her actions and more of a fight with my inaction. 

I can tell that a big part of her wants to com home. And, it's so hard to admit, but I want her back. Why?

Why can't I just accept that I have a clean house, clean clothes and such, be thankful for that and let it go. Not make such a big deal out of it? 

I'm a mess, my friends.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Being she was the one who left and twisted that knife in your back

I hope she would have to do a lot more than clean your house.

If she sniffs you caving, she will clean next time in bra n panties

STAY 180 / NC She has to bring up anything dealing with R

Where is she staying? She still with OM? Do you honestly want to

be a doormat? You let her walk back in.... she will have ZERO respect for you.

For a true R to take place, she MUST ditch OM. Ever find out if OM is married or has g/f?


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Being she was the one who left and twisted that knife in your back
> 
> I hope she would have to do a lot more than clean your house.
> 
> ...


Chuck71,

You're right, she'd have to do a lot more than clean the house. It would take so much more and so much time if we were to go down that road. And I would need proof that the OM is cut off completely. Sure would be easier if I would just shut off the possibility of R. 

I don't know where she's staying, don't know if the OM is still in the picture. I'm in the blind on that one. I'm not sure if OM has g/f, I do know that he has an ex-wife. I need to find out. I don't want to be a doormat even for my own self respect.

I haven't been initiating any contact and I know I should be pushing the separation agreement. I don't know what's keeping me from it.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

pwnc

You said divorce takes a year in your state.

Keep moving forward.

If you want your wife back then let her earn it and show you over the next year.

And if your wife wants to be back then she tells you and her family the entire truth.

Everything.

Don't be in a rush. You have all the time in the world to see how you feel in a few months.

HM


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Every one 2nd guesses their decision. I brought up the R because it would have

eventually. Read my thread Crossroads: Sink or Swim. My STBXW thought bringing home

a pizza for me was enough to start the ball rolling for a R.

Push forward with agreement. As HM64 says, it takes a year.

Enforce your boundaries. Change the locks. Let her realize what life will be like

without you. She is in a fantasy.... when reality sets in... she will definitely let you know

That's when the blame shifting, anger, and rewriting of history will start.

Mourn her loss.... and move forward. Work out, run, don't sit and home and dwell.

Idle time is the devil's workshop.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Thank you Happyman and Chuck. I feel like I had made so much progress and ended up back at square one. I know what both of you say is right on. 

I'll read your thread Chuck.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I have three main ones. The first one is maybe 50 posts. Sink or Swim is maybe

150 posts. My current is sorta long but where you are at, stick to Sink or Swim.

We've all been there. Just post away.....


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> I have three main ones. The first one is maybe 50 posts. Sink or Swim is maybe
> 
> 150 posts. My current is sorta long but where you are at, stick to Sink or Swim.
> 
> We've all been there. Just post away.....


Just read "Sink or Swim." Wow! Well handled. I hope to get to that place of sticking to the plan. 


"Whenever her master plan falls by the wayside..... I get to hear her vent. I ignore until I receive the desired response. Only at that time will she receive a response."

I have been able to employ the above strategy. It works like a charm. When I ignore blame, demands, and/or anger, I soon get something more reasonable to which I can then respond.

This has been the worse night in a while. I can't sleep and I've been super emotional. I've been flooded with memories and a desire to see her and communicate with her. Not hearing back from her after she cleaned the house yesterday and left her stuff has been eating at me I have to admit. 

It's also been all I can do to not send her a "thank you" text for the coffee she brought and left for me - my favourite kind.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I would like a nice comfortable life, half your land and half your business.

Please give me your address so I know where to drop off your coffee and I will clean the house on my way out.

Think about that......

Don't sell yourself short to any woman.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Just read "Sink or Swim." Wow! Well handled. I hope to get to that place of sticking to the plan.
> 
> 
> "Whenever her master plan falls by the wayside..... I get to hear her vent. I ignore until I receive the desired response. Only at that time will she receive a response."
> ...


She is attempting to gauge your emotions. The coffee n cleaning had a 

motive. She is "fishing." Do not respond. She will then wonder why you didn't.

Silence has more power than we realize. Keep the ball in her court.

Get to 50k feet and observe what she does. What often happens is.... the

moment she realizes you no longer give a damn, she will give a damn.

Watch what she does NOT what she says

90% of what comes out of her mouth is garbage


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

PWNC,

Chuck and HappyMan are great advisors. Won't hurt to reread their posts.

Your WAW cheating honey did the laundry and dishes before she split while leaving her possessions behind. That was sweet of her, NOT.

Sometimes people talk about the betrayed husband being plan B. You are not plan B but plan A. Your wife is giving up the pvssy to some douche who is could give a hoot about her. His plan is to enjoy her until she becomes tiresome and then send her home to plan A sugar daddy (you). So yeah you are plan A, only you are not the man she wants to bang her.

Your wife's family don't want you to D her because they know that once you refuse to be plan A, they will have to be plan A (sugar ma and pa). They don't want her dysfunctional azz on their dime.

You don't have children. Lucky you. She is probably BPD or a narcissist. You need her to be gone. You need that lawyer to get his butt into gear.

If you unwisely allow heart to over rule head, you should still file for separation and divorce. You can always date her (but don't do it). She is a permanent pocketful of trouble.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

PWNC............ read this thread cover to cover

he too had no kids with his BSC wife

your story and his are similar

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...9154-separated-wife-really-want-her-back.html


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

pwnc said:


> My wife has left the marriage three times in the past 5 months. It's been a cycle - disappear for a couple of weeks, contact, come back, perfect feeling marriage for a few weeks, disappear again. Her personality does a 180 within a matter of a few minutes, something new for her.


PWNC, I agree with LongWalk (post #66) that you seem to be describing a few of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ to see if they are relevant to your situation. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I also would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join LongWalk and the other respondents in discussing them with you.



> She has no such history in the past.


PWNC, if this is really true, there is virtually no chance that she has a persistent problem with strong BPD traits -- or any other PD traits. It is extremely rare -- if it ever happens at all -- for a person having a lifetime PD problem to stop showing the symptoms for several years (e.g., for the first 3.5 years of your 4 year marriage). 

On the other hand, it is common for a normal, healthy person to experience a temporary flare up of her BPD traits. I mention this because BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means we all exhibit these traits to some degree. And we all can get temporary flare ups at various points in our lives. They can flare up to a very strong level -- perhaps for a year or two -- when a person experiences a strong change in hormones (e.g., as often occurs during puberty, pregnancy, postpartum, and perimenopause). The average age for perimenopause in the USA is 51 years, and the normal range of onset is any time between age 40 and age 58. Is your W in that age range? If so, has she been evaluated by a doctor for a possible hormone change?


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I've been away from the forum for a few days. So much has happened. 

I found out that my wife had been living in the woods out of her car for the past month out of fear of coming home. 

I found her and asked her to move back in until things are settled. 

She said she wanted an R more than anything in the world. So I offered her the car and a nice sum of money to move out and get a new start on her life. She turned it down. Then I offered to fly her to her parents and to give her a sum of money to get started there. She turned it down. I wanted to make sure she wasn't back to use me for the money. 

She says she wants time to prove that she's sorry, remorseful, and ready to be totally honest. I am extremely cautious, but I'm prepared to give her a few months. 

So far, she has been open and has answered every question I have had. She has shared all passwords and codes. The phone and internet records don't reflect anything suspicious to date. She has taken responsibility for everything and has not done any blame shifting. She says she will do anything that I want or need to help rebuild the relationship. 

Meanwhile, I am in a different spot. I'm happy to give this some time, but I'm also indifferent as to the outcome. I will also give in an effort to rebuild, but I won't sacrifice myself any more. I can take it or leave it and that feels good.

I can feel that I still love her and I feel genuine love from her. But I am more interested in taking care of me. I feel like I've grown so much over the past few months. If she wants to ride on that bus with me, she's welcome. If not, the door swings both ways. 

Those who are looking for a chance at R, take the advice given here very seriously. I don't know if my situation will work out in the end, but the marriage only has this chance because of what I learned from others' experiences here. You have to take care of yourself first. You have to be willing to walk away and not look back. You have to accept your situation and let go of the fear of losing your spouse. Those things really do draw the other person back. My wife keeps marveling at my new found confidence and my focus on my purpose and goals. Not only are they attractive to her, but they make me know that if the relationship doesn't work, I will be fine. 

All that said, I can see now that a true R will take so much hard work. The ups and downs of the separations were hard, but in that case, I only had me to work on. Now there are two of us again. We'll see if I'm up to it. 

My short term goal is to get W some professional help. I'm not sure if she's truly BPD, but her behaviours fit some of the description in the post above. We need to find out for sure ASAP. My other goal is for my home to be a drama-free zone. That's the make or break with me.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You listened and learned..... wasn't hard at all was it?

Not being afraid to lose her..... many confuse that with hurting when they're gone

I was never afraid of losing my XW.... I just wasn't looking forward to the heartache I had to go though.

Keep us posted and I wish you obtain whatever it is you seek with her.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Your wife needs professional counseling.

I think that effort as a short term goal is your best course of action.

Good Luck


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

One piece of advice...... beware of how she uses her snatch....

check out Gutpunch's Journal in January 2013

and notice the "spider webs"


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

How is the R going?


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71,

I read Gutpunches Journal. Yes, the snatch can snatch you into its web! Luckily, we haven't gone that route. I'm not ready. 

The R is tough. She's really depressed, remorseful, and dealing with a lot of guilt. That's good, but I'm much further down the road. I'm ready to have a good year. It's been so [email protected]$ty for the last few months. We've begun to go out and do things we both enjoy. Those times are good. She's treating me good, being honest and open. But I'm more ready for the positive. She's still feeling negative about herself. So, we'll see. I'm still in the take it or leave it mood. It feels good to be in that spot. 

She needs some IC, but she's not there yet. 

I'm learning that these things are slow and there are many ups and downs on both sides. Just got to be happy with myself, take care of myself and be patient. 

Life is one big classroom.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

So, the big R turned out to be a big false. For a few weeks, things went well. She was showing all the signs of a new commitment to the marriage and she was following up with actions. She was open with all of her communication devices, even to the point of asking me to keep them with me when we were apart. We also had only one vehicle between us, so we knew each other's whereabouts at all times. We were both working on it and we were having fun times together. 

Then things went down hill quickly. The OP came back into the picture. He started contacting her during our anniversary trip. Her warmth and sweetness toward me disappeared almost instantly. She stayed and she told me that she had decided to stay in the marriage, that she would not run away again. She didn't, but things got crazy. The OP threatened to kill himself. She felt totally responsible. There was so much drama. She would constantly check on him, reach out to his family and friends to make sure he hadn't done the deed. Of course, he didn't. He didn't intend to. But there I was. She asked me to support her and she asked me to protect her from him. Turns out he spent time in prison for a weapons charge. Also turns out, that his previous wives had restraining orders taken out on him. 

His behaviour got increasingly weird. It was actually driving the wife and I closer. She preferred being with me because there was no drama. He confronted me at my house. He showed up there twice. I contacted the sherriff. He continued to threaten to kill himself. Then, all of the sudden, his behaviour changed - a 180. My gut knew exactly why, she began telling him that there was hope for their relationship. 

So now, we're separated. We still see each other frequently. I'm working on pulling back again. Things are really strange. The affection from her is sporadic. I don't initiate any of it. When we separated, I got "I love you" again for a few days, something I hadn't heard in weeks.

Having spent some quality time with her, I've continued to be committed to working on a future reconciliation. I know a happy marriage is possible. But I'm having to change tactics. 

On my side, the first few days of separation were brutal, but in the last two days, I've found my groove. 

I have a lot to share, hopefully stuff that will help others. And I hope that you all can help me with some questions I have.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I've been reading so much since this began a few months ago. I'm trying to learn all I can - partly in an attempt to reconcile, but mostly just for me to take better care of myself and to be a better partner in the future either to my wife or future partner.

I've struggled with what exactly my contribution was to problems in our marriage. At first, I blamed her exclusively. Then, I blamed myself for everything. After studying, I see that it takes two to ruin a marriage. 

After studying the distancer/pursuer dynamic, I realize, of course, that I've been the pursuer since this crisis began. It's behaviour that I've had to constantly reign in. But, I've recently come to realize that I was the distancer prior to the crisis. When my wife is open to constructively talking about the problems in our marriage, she describes my behaviour as controlling and aloof, that she felt a lack of true commitment, that I focused too much on work and friends, that I didn't value or respect her opinion or input. You know, she's exactly right! It's the same behaviour that destroyed a prior long-term relationship. Of course, I know it was her choice how she reacted to it, but it is damn frustrating that it took a crisis and multiple separations for me to realize this! At least, I know this going into the future.

So, I have a question. She needed and wanted more attention and focus on her during our marriage, when she was the pursuer. Now that the roles have flipped, I read that I need to stop all pursuing behaviours. It seems counter intuitive since that's high on her list of emotional needs. And it seems dangerous since the OP is fulfilling that need now. What is your experience, insight? Is it best to stop those behaviours completely or is there a balance?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> So, the big R turned out to be a big false. For a few weeks, things went well. She was showing all the signs of a new commitment to the marriage and she was following up with actions. She was open with all of her communication devices, even to the point of asking me to keep them with me when we were apart. We also had only one vehicle between us, so we knew each other's whereabouts at all times. We were both working on it and we were having fun times together.
> 
> Then things went down hill quickly. The OP came back into the picture. He started contacting her during our anniversary trip. Her warmth and sweetness toward me disappeared almost instantly. She stayed and she told me that she had decided to stay in the marriage, that she would not run away again. She didn't, but things got crazy. The OP threatened to kill himself. She felt totally responsible. There was so much drama. She would constantly check on him, reach out to his family and friends to make sure he hadn't done the deed. Of course, he didn't. He didn't intend to. But there I was. She asked me to support her and she asked me to protect her from him. Turns out he spent time in prison for a weapons charge. Also turns out, that his previous wives had restraining orders taken out on him.
> 
> ...


Sooo... you're cool w/ her yo-yoing back and forth between yourself and OM?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> I've been reading so much since this began a few months ago. I'm trying to learn all I can - partly in an attempt to reconcile, but mostly just for me to take better care of myself and to be a better partner in the future either to my wife or future partner.
> 
> I've struggled with what exactly my contribution was to problems in our marriage. At first, I blamed her exclusively. Then, I blamed myself for everything. After studying, I see that it takes two to ruin a marriage.
> 
> ...


For as long as OM is in the picture at all, you need to put a stop to any and all pursuit of your WW. If and when he's finally out of the picture (assuming that you're still looking to reconcile at that point), you can get to work on finding a balance.

Right now it would amount to nothing more than a waste of your time.


----------



## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

I think you have learned that you cannot trust her 100% now. You need to go back to divorcing her cold, and moving on with your life. How many more times do you need to be fooled by her? You are wasting your time with this.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

So your okay being a doormat? i mean honestly how many more times does she have to walk all over you until you get the picture...no offense PW, but i honestly didn't know Forrest Gump actually existed. Please please wake up.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You do realize you're her Plan B, right? Is that really what you want? To be someone she goes back to when she's on the outs with this OM (or some other one)? You think that little of yourself and believe that's all you deserve?

WAKE UP!!!


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

PWNC..... all you have to do is re-read what you were told in your previous posts.

Did you read the blog I mentioned on post #67? Veteran posters on TAM see this VERY often....

This POSOM is total BSC and your W.... feeds off of that. It is very unhealthy. With no kids, GTFO now.

You tried and tried and still want things to work..... well look where your effort has got you. How do you feel?

"She self-sabotaged the M because she felt like she did not deserve a healthy one." 

In her mind..... this M is going great.... it is destined to fail.... I might as well blow everything up

since it can't last forever. She is a defeatist. The nicer you are... the more she pulls away.

She was paying everything for POSOM.... she wanted his approval. She was placing you as Plan B

while YOU were giving HER $$$ to fulfill POSOM's wants. Sit on that statement and tell me how 

you feel tomorrow. I highly recommend reading the thread I recommended.

Also you are caught in a Drama Triangle..... read this link

The Three Faces of Victim ? An Overview of the Drama Triangle


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

pwnc

The gang is right. You are allowing your wife to sit on the fence.

Break the dynamic. Pull back on your marriage and put the focus on you.

Tell your wife that you are not willing to share her in the marriage.

Then make arrangements when you are ready to move forward without her.

HM


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Google the NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY free download. At the same time read the MMSLP book linked to below. It can also be downloaded at amazon. Com.

These books will show you how you have literally defeated all your efforts.

Good luck


----------



## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Unless she agrees to 100% no contact with the OM and his crowd then you need to divorce her. No question about it.

Even if she does this she needs to start IC to address her behaviors. She also needs to do a "tell all" with her family that lets them know her actions. Failure to do this should be grounds for a divorce.

Get a legal agreement worked out now over the land and the business so when she goes off the rails again you don't have that to contend with. Separate your money as well.

STD tests of course.

Do Not Have Children With Her. DONT DO IT.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

So, everyone on here was right. It just took me an additional year to get it through my thick skull. After two more attempts at reconciliation, at her request, after counseling, setting up shared a shared FaceBook account, canceling her phone so there would be no secrets, and after getting the police involved to protect her because she felt threatened by the OM, and after he got arrested and moved across the country, my son caught her talking to the OM about their future plans this afternoon. He called me. I came home. Told her to pack up ALL of her stuff and never come back. So, she's gone. This time, I haven't shed a tear. In fact, I feel a little relieved and excited to get the ball rolling on the divorce. 

I did myself proud this time - no nice guy crap.

Everyone was right. I should have done this a year ago. But I needed to learn all this junk on my own.


----------



## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

pwnc said:


> So, everyone on here was right. It just took me an additional year to get it through my thick skull. After two more attempts at reconciliation, at her request, after counseling, setting up shared a shared FaceBook account, canceling her phone so there would be no secrets, and after getting the police involved to protect her because she felt threatened by the OM, and after he got arrested and moved across the country, my son caught her talking to the OM about their future plans this afternoon. He called me. I came home. Told her to pack up ALL of her stuff and never come back. So, she's gone. This time, I haven't shed a tear. In fact, I feel a little relieved and excited to get the ball rolling on the divorce.
> 
> I did myself proud this time - no nice guy crap.
> 
> Everyone was right. I should have done this a year ago. But I needed to learn all this junk on my own.



Good job. Here is one CRUCIAL lesson guys need to learn. If your woman is in love with another man let her a** go. When women fall they fall hard. It is very difficult for them to just move on. Took you a year to learn this but at least you did. I hope everything works out for you now.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Now you know what false R looks like. 

Sorry it took additional time to learn but sometimes it takes a virtual brick to the head to finally see clearly.

It's really onwards and upwards from here.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

PWNC..... You stuck around TAM a couple months but never posted again. So... I kinda knew,

as did others. Hindsights 20 / 20 ..... often used for this very reason. But now you KNOW.

No 2nd guessing as some do. I used to be bad about 2nd guessing with matters of the heart

back in my 20s. "It will be better 2nd time around..... total BS." How old is the child?

What is the custody set-up? Child support? Did you keep the home?

How long before D final where you reside?

Thanks for the update...... most threads never receive updates.... unless they're positive ones


----------



## unbe (Dec 20, 2013)

PWNC: You seem to me in a similar situation to what I delt with over the past 2+ years. 

Heres the thing you should know. Your wife is not NORMAL, your marriage was not NORMAL. It was just YOUR NORMAL

There are people out there who aren't narcissistic like your stbx and mine. There are people who will give as much as they take. We just met the wrong ones. Its really as simple as that. Why did we meet the wrong people? Its called co-dependency. We are drawn to these people....

You my friend are co-dependent and need to work on breaking this. I am still working and am not even close...5 months in.

Until you break this you are doomed to repeat the pattern. Maybe not with her (hopefully you can see now you cant with her) but with the next one you meet. 

I can tell your a nice guy. You want to do things to please other people. You probably have yourself convinced that while doing these things its making you happy also. Question yourself, was it really making you happy or just making you feel secure?


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Had some sadness this morning. There's a part of my wife that is genuine, caring, and warm. I'll miss that part. It's almost like mourning the death of someone. The lies and deception I will not miss.

I learned from one of her friends this morning that she's been comparing me to the OM lately - he's more fun because he likes to party hard at bars and get into fights, drinks daily, has been in prison, and is part of a gang. I ain't a woman, but if I were, those things would be real turn offs.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

unbe said:


> PWNC: You seem to me in a similar situation to what I delt with over the past 2+ years.
> 
> Heres the thing you should know. Your wife is not NORMAL, your marriage was not NORMAL. It was just YOUR NORMAL
> 
> ...


Glad to see those clouds part eh Unbe?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Had some sadness this morning. There's a part of my wife that is genuine, caring, and warm. I'll miss that part. It's almost like mourning the death of someone. The lies and deception I will not miss.
> 
> I learned from one of her friends this morning that she's been comparing me to the OM lately - he's more fun because he likes to party hard at bars and get into fights, drinks daily, has been in prison, and is part of a gang. I ain't a woman, but if I were, those things would be real turn offs.


Well scum attracts scum. What does that say about her? 

She likes bad boys. Most women do....until they start getting knocked around. 

You need to read _No more Mr. Nice Guy _and absorb what you read and put it into practice.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Well scum attracts scum. What does that say about her?
> 
> She likes bad boys. Most women do....until they start getting knocked around.
> 
> You need to read _No more Mr. Nice Guy _and absorb what you read and put it into practice.


Women who are looking for bad boys are broken women. What a healthy woman wants is a strong man with integrity who they can count on to have their back and do whatever it takes to do the right thing. Broken women get this all mixed up and they see the "bad boy" as someone who won't back down and is strong, when really those men are just as broken and have no clue to how to handle anything with integrity and honor.


----------



## unbe (Dec 20, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> Glad to see those clouds part eh Unbe?


Clouds have parted for some time now. It was a matter of acting on what I was seeing once they did part that was the real challenge (and still is)


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> a strong man with integrity who they can count on to have their back and do whatever it takes to do the right thing.


That's how she describes me to her friends and family. That's what she says she wants, but obviously it's not really.

I'm looking forward to meeting someone healthy some day.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

She sent a message telling me where I could pick up our car. And she asked me what she could do to make it easier on my end. What nerve! And that she hopes everyone is ok. Well, they're not - my family, especially my grandmother and son are taking it hard. 

She told a friend that she's mad at my son for listening to her conversation with OM on the phone. Her friend told her that it's her own fault for calling OM from home and that her stepson shouldn't have to be the one to hear such things. Of course, it's everyone else fault. She also said she didn't want this to happen this way and so suddenly. These things make me angry and it feels good.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

She is a piece of work...as Dr. Phil say you can't fix what you don't own....your doing the best thing for you and your son moving on....you need now to show your son that you are a real man and not a doormat. Good Luck


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Just be wary of her offering to clean your house again.......

we know how that ended up.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Just be wary of her offering to clean your house again.......
> 
> we know how that ended up.


Yeah, no kidding!

At least this time he wisked her off 500 miles from here.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

unbe said:


> PWNC: You seem to me in a similar situation to what I delt with over the past 2+ years.
> 
> Heres the thing you should know. Your wife is not NORMAL, your marriage was not NORMAL. It was just YOUR NORMAL
> 
> ...


Dang right. Being alone and all of the sudden the person you focused on is gone gives you a lot of time for introspection. I have a real problem with codependency - with her. Thing is, I have a pretty balanced life otherwise. I read No More Mr. Nice Guy. I seem to have it down in every aspect except her. Not sure exactly how to get the addiction out of me, but one things for sure - I am ready!

What you said about making me happy vs. trying to find security is exactly right. Spending all my time trying to please someone who didn't value me was exhausting and unfulfilling. I thought, against all the odds and against all sound advice, that it would lead to a more secure relationship. Martyr. Doesn't work in any other aspect of my life, not sure why I thought it would work with my marriage.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

There are numerous threads you can read here which were mirror to your situation.

Some have happy endings. Some don't. Most of those are where the thread ends abruptly.

If you'd like.... I will post one at the end. If you think your situation was bad... check this guy out.

It's still an active thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> There are numerous threads you can read here which were mirror to your situation.
> 
> Some have happy endings. Some don't. Most of those are where the thread ends abruptly.
> 
> ...


Wow! That's some story. Better knowing I wasn't the only one jumping into a pool without water and wondering why it hurt.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

This is a setback day for me. I've been putting on my big boy pants every day lately and doing the things I need to do. But this morning, I can't find my big boy pants. 

I had a meeting at the project we worked on together, part of my work, but she was the real spirit behind it. Most of the people involved know that she's gone. They're bummed out her leaving and worried about me. I didn't let on, just did what I had to do. But, it made me miss the good part of her. Made me sad that that's not the part of her that guides her - the part that people love, the part that gives, the part that finds joy in life. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not backsliding. The good does not outweigh the bad. I'm not getting sentimental. Just felt sad that that person is gone, got eat up by some other self-consumed person who I don't even know. 

I'm a leader in the family and in the work I do. People depend on me, which is a good thing work-wise. I wish that wasn't the case for a few days. I really would like to just hide out for a day or two. But, impossible. Phone keeps on ringing, work keeps piling up. The more I sit here, the more the deadlines are adding to the stress. 

The good news is I do feel differently overall. She sent me an address this morning where I can send the separation papers. The old me would have jumped at the opportunity to reopen communication, get back in the pick me game. Not anymore, I feel a huge sense of relief that I don't have to ride that roller coaster anymore. Someone else bought that ticket. 

It's become very clear to me too that I was letting this crap happen to me. Boy, if I could have gotten my man on earlier. 

The sense of freedom from the game feels great. The sense of loss, I just need a little time with it to get it out of my system. 

Thank God there are 10,000 crappy things to remind me not to spend too much energy on that loss.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Keep looking forward. Stay the course towards ending the marriage and getting your life back.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

So, here's where I am.

I now have the address to send the separation papers. My attorney is updating the ones I had done last year.

Last year's version gave her the car and a cash payment of a few thousand in exchange for her signing everything else - business, home, investment, truck back into my name.

This year's version offers no exchange, just the provisions for her to sign everything back. 

I told the lawyer to hurry. She's in a mood to prove that she can make it on her own... with OP's help of course. I need to get to her while she's in this proving mood and before she figures out an alcoholic felon cannot support her. 

As far as possessions, she has all of her stuff. I have all of mine. 

She has no access to any of the accounts. And I'm not paying for anything that benefits her except driver's insurance which ends on Friday. 

A year ago, I would have been appalled at myself for being so harsh, but this year. I want out and I don't want to share any of the benefits of this marriage. 

I can't believe I was paying for her car, her phone, her insurance and gave her access to an account while she was off cheating last year.

Thank God we didn't have kids together.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You had to work through what was happening to you. You had to work through letting go of your dream and moving into the reality of your situation.
Are you still in counseling? How is that going?
You have made great progress. Don't expect progress to happen all at once. It takes time to work through and move through such difficulties.


----------



## unbe (Dec 20, 2013)

pwnc said:


> So, here's where I am.
> 
> I now have the address to send the separation papers. My attorney is updating the ones I had done last year.
> 
> ...


This feels like groundhog day!

Buddy, nothing you can do about the past. The future, never let this happen again!


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You are completely different from who you were a year ago. If you were not... same roller coaster.

Funny thing... she probably thinks she can fix the drunk felon. Good luck with that...

Be glad it's over. Don't be surprised to see her trying to seek out her old Mr. Fixer after OM fizzles

out like a fart in the wind. 

Hope you stick around TAM awhile.... give advice to some who are at where you were last year.

Question.... how was hr relationship with her step(son?)


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> You had to work through what was happening to you. You had to work through letting go of your dream and moving into the reality of your situation.
> Are you still in counseling? How is that going?
> You have made great progress. Don't expect progress to happen all at once. It takes time to work through and move through such difficulties.


Thank you for the reminder. It will take a while. I feel so exhausted from the drama of the past few weeks that I'm wanting to move fast. 

That dream I'm having to put to rest - I spent so much time believing it would just magically resurrect, in spite of knowing better, in spite of all the evidence right in front of me telling me that it had died a while back.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> You are completely different from who you were a year ago. If you were not... same roller coaster.
> 
> Funny thing... she probably thinks she can fix the drunk felon. Good luck with that...
> 
> ...


Whether it's working for an R or how to maintain your dignity and move on, I could write book on what not to do!

Yes, she told me once that it was her job to fix OM. At one point, she wanted me to just hang out here until she could fix him enough to get him to his family's hometown where he would be safe. Then she would come home and work on the marriage. Geez. Even said she was responsible for his problems.

She had a good relationship with my son. They got extremely close over the last two months. She was working overtime to charm and get close to my family. In fact, on Mother's Day, he wrote her a card talking about how she was like a mother and he was so happy to have her in his life, something that surprised me. 

But he was the one who later that day caught her talking on the phone with OM. Now, he's been running between rage and sadness. 

The card he wrote and his gifts ended up in a trash bag she threw on the fire before she drove away. Pissed me off.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Whether it's working for an R or how to maintain your dignity and move on, I could write book on what not to do!
> 
> Yes, she told me once that it was her job to fix OM. At one point, she wanted me to just hang out here until she could fix him enough to get him to his family's hometown where he would be safe. Then she would come home and work on the marriage. Geez. Even said she was responsible for his problems.
> 
> ...


THAT alone should tell you who she really is. Next time she throws that vagina at your face...

remember your son devastated by what she did. Try to get him some solid IC or try the school psychologist.

I let most things slide off my back.... that though... I would have addressed. But I would not recommend you

to... unless you are 100% over with her. If you are not fully over her... it just leads to drama and

schitstorms.

Funny how she and many other WS act as if everything is peachy and wonderful and.... DDay


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> I let most things slide off my back.... that though... I would have addressed. But I would not recommend you
> 
> to... unless you are 100% over with her. If you are not fully over her... it just leads to drama and
> 
> ...


Son is twenty. Because I raised him, he says he looks out for me. Good thing he listened in on the phone call, otherwise I might still be in limboland. She told her friend that she was pissed at my son. That he ruined it all. She planned on us splitting in a friendly way months from now.... translation (based on what I've heard) when OM had saved up some dough.

One thing I did differently this time, I told all of my family and our friends that she left for another man. I had protected her before when I thought we might work out. Telling everyone is sort of an insurance policy for me. It makes it highly unlikely that she'll show her face here again or try to fight me on the separation agreement. She told me that she couldn't bare it if people knew.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She was pizzed at your son..... awww poor ba ba *eyeroll* 

If you want a good laugh, I was 15 when I eavesdropped on pop talking to his XW and going to meet her.

I told mom... whole story is posted in my LaD thread... sometime Fall 2015. It's funny now but it wasn't then.

She felt secure with a Mr. Nice Guy / Mr. Fixer but deep down she wanted a "bad boy"

Thing is... a true bad boy pays his bills, answers to no one. This guy was mooching off her.

He is doing to her what she was doing to you BUT she thinks she is too clever to realize it

LOL ..... guess again


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pwnc said:


> She had a good relationship with my son. They got extremely close over the last two months. She was working overtime to charm and get close to my family. In fact, on Mother's Day, he wrote her a card talking about how she was like a mother and he was so happy to have her in his life, something that surprised me.
> 
> But he was the one who later that day caught her talking on the phone with OM. Now, he's been running between rage and sadness.
> 
> The card he wrote and his gifts ended up in a trash bag she threw on the fire before she drove away. Pissed me off.


What a horrible thing to do. She is a conniving, manipulative person. She purposefully drew you all in, including your precious son, without any real concern for anyone. All she was looking for was what she could get from all of you. Anyone who is purposefully mean to a child is not worth knowing, let alone having a relationship with.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

My son had the movie French Kiss on while I was working. I didn't mean to pay attention, but it's a TAM story like so many I've read!

Fiance guy goes on trip, falls in love with OW, fiance girl flies after the guy to get him back... stuff happens... girl learns to do 180, threatens breakup, fiance guy suddenly wants her back.... but.... fiance girl no longer wants it.... falls in love with another. 

Some of it's cheesy, but it's a familiar plot.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> My son had the movie French Kiss on while I was working. I didn't mean to pay attention, but it's a TAM story like so many I've read!
> 
> Fiance guy goes on trip, falls in love with OW, fiance girl flies after the guy to get him back... stuff happens... girl learns to do 180, threatens breakup, fiance guy suddenly wants her back.... but.... fiance girl no longer wants it.... falls in love with another.
> 
> Some of it's cheesy, but it's a familiar plot.


We call that Rom-Com..... romantic comedy.

Has Hollyweird ever depicted a true version of American culture? Nah... it just tries to shape it.

Posts, tweets, blogs, "reality news," "entertainment today" the key is... most mistake entertainment for reality


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> Are you still in counseling? How is that going?


I dropped IC when wife asked for MC. We went to MC three times. The counselor asked me to read a book about living with a spouse with borderline personality. W scolded me for not making an appointment for MC a couple of hours before she got caught. Guess I saved some money. 

The threads that say that MC is useless when there's still an OM in the picture are right on. The reasons she gave for her unhappiness were all false -- her family, career, etc. Really, she was unhappy because she still had feelings for OM and couldn't figure out a way to be with him and have everyone's blessing, including mine.

Anyway, I need to get back into IC. It was doing good in terms of turning my focus inward. Too much of my energy has been on W and the situation. 

Right now, it's like having worms in my brain. Just replaying scenes and dialogues over and over. 

I feel really sad. I'm having trouble because (I know they care), but my family and friends won't give me time to just be alone. I know I'll be fine. I just need a little time in the woods. Need to get my head on straight.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Just tell them.... true friends will understand. It's awful funny most of the time you played more a parental

role with her.... unless you made a decision on your own. They she tried to turn into your mother.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

A buddy called and asked me to go hiking this evening. So, I will get in the woods today albeit not alone.

I was naive in thinking this would be easy because of my anger at the situation. It was easier in the first few days. It's difficult now. I feel sad and the things I'm trying just don't kick it. I'll get out of this, but not as easy as I thought.

Off to the woods.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Getting in the woods, doing a hard couple of hours intense steep hike and leaving the phone in the car felt great. 

The buddy and I actually managed to laugh about all the crazy #@it that's happened the past year. Some of it, I had forgotten. Can't believe some of it was real. Seems like I'll get some good sleep tonight for a change. 

Exercise and laughing at the absurd is great advice in these situations.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Man, mornings are hard. I usually feel pretty good around bed time, but mornings are tough.

Been reading a lot of threads just to get an idea of how these things work and how people get on successfully with their lives. 

I've noticed, of course, that wives check out way before leaving and/or cheating. That process usually takes years and the wife usually puts some sort of effort into making the marriage work. That sure didn't happen in my case. At the first sign of unhappiness, mine checked out and checked in with someone else.

It also amazes me how attached we men become to one person. If you believe all the crap you hear or read in pop culture you would think it was women who get super glued to one person. Seems like we men have a hard time breaking attachments. 

And danged if all the stories, although nuanced, don't have the same basic plot and the same lines. There are some exceptions. But I find that upon reading the first few posts of a thread, I can predict if there will be an affair later on in the thread. Of course, that's old news for the veterans here, but it's amazing to me how the behaviour fits such a pattern.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

S&%t! I've fallen apart today. I don't know why. 

Feel frozen. Don't want to be anywhere. Sucks.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

sapientia said:


> Focus on next near steps. What are you accomplishing today?


I have so much work to do and I host a public meeting in three hours. I get into work and right in the middle, I fall apart. I sure don't feel like being in front of the public, but I have no choice. I almost broke down on a phone call earlier, found a quick escape. That ain't normal me.

Woke up feeling pretty good, but spiraled down quickly.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

You're right sapientia. Just took a little walk. Trying to breath a little in between things I need to do. 

I'm really surprised at myself. My logic and my plan are straight, but my emotions are all over the place. The only other time I've felt so overwhelmed and edgy is after I found my uncle dead from a shotgun in his mouth a few years back. I had to be strong for the family then, but I felt like I wanted to run a thousand miles away. Feeling that way now.

I set up an appointment to start IC again. I got to get out of this spot so I can move on. 

Thank God W is a few states away and not starting drama. At least that's one less worry.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Smart move to get back into therapy. I'm sorry to hear about what happened with your uncle. That is an extremely traumatic experience. Hopefully you have worked through that. If not, that needs to be addressed. And yes it's good that stbx is not nearby. 
You are going to make it through this. Take it one day at a time and you will see that things ease up as the days go by. Someday it will just be a memory.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Not a thing wrong with mourning the loss of a spouse. In a way... you feel as if she "died" awhile back.

Better to face this head on.... if you run / hide from the pain, it will still be there when you stop.

Some people run right into another LTR / M to escape the pain. Those virtually NEVER last.

If one does not work on themselves after a D... they WILL repeat their same mistakes.

Everyone has a part in the M ending.... own your part.... improve in those areas. Work on you.

She set you free.... you just don't "really" realize it yet.

Trust me.... that day will come.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> Smart move to get back into therapy. I'm sorry to hear about what happened with your uncle. That is an extremely traumatic experience. Hopefully you have worked through that.


I had trouble with sleeping and images after my uncle. A friend of mine secretly scheduled a counseling appointment and tricked me into going. Best gift ever. It took some time, but I worked through it. Made me a believer in good counseling. 

I'm looking forward to this being just a memory.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Dang right. Being alone and all of the sudden the person you focused on is gone gives you a lot of time for introspection. I have a real problem with codependency - with her. Thing is, I have a pretty balanced life otherwise. I read No More Mr. Nice Guy. I seem to have it down in every aspect except her. Not sure exactly how to get the addiction out of me, but one things for sure - I am ready!
> 
> What you said about making me happy vs. trying to find security is exactly right. Spending all my time trying to please someone who didn't value me was exhausting and unfulfilling. I thought, against all the odds and against all sound advice, that it would lead to a more secure relationship. Martyr. Doesn't work in any other aspect of my life, not sure why I thought it would work with my marriage.


Read Co-dependency No more by M Beattie.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

pwnc said:


> S&%t! I've fallen apart today. I don't know why.
> 
> Feel frozen. Don't want to be anywhere. Sucks.


You have to take control of your situation.
Get rid of your WW from your life

Do other things apart from work, exercise, join a charity, help the neighbours, etc. You need to keep busy.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

aine said:


> You have to take control of your situation.
> Get rid of your WW from your life
> 
> Do other things apart from work, exercise, join a charity, help the neighbours, etc. You need to keep busy.


You're right. I have three more days of a lot of work. My plan is to get everything done before Sunday and take that day to get out in the woods or in the river, no phone.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Tomorrow at 5 I meet with the lawyer to amend the separation agreement. He said he will send it immediately. 

I'm relieved to get that moving.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Better day today. Separation papers are done on my end. Now, the ball's in her court.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

aine said:


> Read Co-dependency No more by M Beattie.


Thanks! I've started reading it. It's an eye opener and right on in terms of some of my behavior and almost all of my stbx's behavior. 

The advice in the book is great. I'm on the detachment chapter. I need the detachment badly. It helps that stbx is so far away and dark. It's giving me space to focus on myself. Now I have to work on being just as strong when she inevitably tries to push her way back into my life.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Another good one if you haven't read it yet: Awareness, Anthony De Mello.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you read about the BPD personality and understood it? You will end up being happy about leaving that behind. Your counselor should be capable of PTSD counseling. Some of the newer techniques are having amazing success.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Most anything mentioned book-wise is on Pdf. I second Satya's recommendation. It's somewhat a spiritual read.

You learn about #1s, #2s, #3s. #3s are bad..... you will learn you did a lot of those.

#3s are like drinks... "everybody" does them and it's not a "bad" thing, just unhealthy.

Somewhat like a Baptist preacher who drank moonshine three times back in 1963. Doesn't make him a drunk.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Have you read about the BPD personality and understood it? You will end up being happy about leaving that behind. Your counselor should be capable of PTSD counseling. Some of the newer techniques are having amazing success.


I have read some about BPD. My counselor just gave me a book "Stop Walking on Egg Shells," about living with someone with BPD. I don't entirely understand the disorder yet, but I can tell you the description aligns right on with my stbx's behaviour.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> .
> 
> You learn about #1s, #2s, #3s. #3s are bad..... you will learn you did a lot of those.


What are the 1, 2, 3s? Haven't seen that yet.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

pwnc said:


> I have read some about BPD.


PWNC, if you've not already done so, I suggest you follow the two links I provided a year ago in post #68 above. Those links point to posts where I discuss how to spot the warning signs for BPD. It is easy to learn because there is nothing subtle about behavioral symptoms such as temper tantrums, irrational jealousy, and always being "The Victim."



> My counselor just gave me a book "Stop Walking on Egg Shells," about living with someone with BPD.


A more useful book, now that you are moving forward with divorce, is _Splitting: Protecting yourself While Divorcing a Borderline or a Narcissist_. It was written by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger. The latter is author of the _Eggshells _book which you already have. 



> I don't entirely understand the disorder yet, but I can tell you the description aligns right on with my stbx's behaviour.


If you believe your STBX has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT try to persuade her of that. If she really is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her. 

As to helpful online articles, I recommend two BPDfamily articles: Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD (Article 9) and Leaving a Partner with BPD (Article 10).


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> What are the 1, 2, 3s? Haven't seen that yet.


In DeMello's Awareness.... he states a #1 as doing / buying something for yourself.... a new shirt, tool set.

A #2 is doing something for others and expecting nothing in return... charity, volunteering.

A #3 is when you do something for someone and expect a reaction... when you do not get the reaction one desired, 

you get angry and upset. Say you buy your spouse a necklace and that person's response doesn't seem to

"match what you were expecting" and you throw a fit.

That is why a #3 is very unhealthy. You place your well-being and happiness in the hands of others.

Real life example.... guy (former TAMer) buys his g/f a sweater for Christmas. She gets upset.... the sweater

was one size too small. She bemoans he wants her to lose weight, this was why it is too small.

He starts to apologize immediately...... 

See a pattern there?


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Uptown said:


> PWNC, if you've not already done so, I suggest you follow the two links I provided a year ago in post #68 above. Those links point to posts where I discuss how to spot the warning signs for BPD. It is easy to learn because there is nothing subtle about behavioral symptoms such as temper tantrums, irrational jealousy, and always being "The Victim."
> 
> A more useful book, now that you are moving forward with divorce, is _Splitting: Protecting yourself While Divorcing a Borderline or a Narcissist_. It was written by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger. The latter is author of the _Eggshells _book which you already have.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I will read them.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Speaking of irrational... I got an email from stbx this morning asking me why I hacked her Facebook. I don't even know which of the multiple accounts she has that she uses. I don't know how to hack Facebook. And I'm not interested in that or anything related to her. 

She's so weird, but that stuff makes it much easier to detach.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

No response is the best response.

However...you can still smile at her unhealthy level of paranoia...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

pwnc said:


> I have read some about BPD. My counselor just gave me a book "Stop Walking on Egg Shells," about living with someone with BPD. I don't entirely understand the disorder yet, but I can tell you the description aligns right on with my stbx's behaviour.


If your wife truly does have BPD that is a hard one. I have a family member with BPD and it has been one tough ride. There is insecurity but they want to be loved and can be quite clinging at times and then you say or do anything they do not like and you are nobody and will not speak to you, you simply cut off and suddenly no good. The family member that was dx with BPD is promiscuous and manipulative, a lie is nothing to create, or a really twisted reality. I have been in BPD support groups for years and this mentioned is typical. If this sounds familiar you are very likely the whipping post that she depends on to root her but it is no way for you to live. 4 years and no children, you need to run and never look back. Make everything legal, get everything sorted out and be done.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

When you wanted to work things out..... she wouldn't give you the time of day.

Now you are through with her.....she can't let you go.

Funny how things work out isn't it?


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> Speaking of irrational... I got an email from stbx this morning asking me why I hacked her Facebook. I don't even know which of the multiple accounts she has that she uses. I don't know how to hack Facebook. And I'm not interested in that or anything related to her.
> 
> She's so weird, but that stuff makes it much easier to detach.


Having too much experience in the world of irritational this isn't surprising. She needs the "bad guy". She will create it if she has to. 

My ex did much the same, she would text accusing me of monitoring her phone, reading all her text messages etc etc. None of which occurred and I could have cared less after she left. 

It's part of the push/pull game they play. She wants you to engage and defend yourself so you two can fight about something which won't accomplish anything. If you don't she just starts convincing herself it's true and she must get away from the obsessed monster. They tend to create perfect monsters in their heads which aids in the victim stories they tell.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

honcho said:


> Having too much experience in the world of irritational this isn't surprising. She needs the "bad guy". She will create it if she has to.
> 
> My ex did much the same, she would text accusing me of monitoring her phone, reading all her text messages etc etc. None of which occurred and I could have cared less after she left.
> 
> It's part of the push/pull game they play. She wants you to engage and defend yourself so you two can fight about something which won't accomplish anything. If you don't she just starts convincing herself it's true and she must get away from the obsessed monster. They tend to create perfect monsters in their heads which aids in the victim stories they tell.


And they hope history will repeat itself....

You know.... how in the past you apologized for things you did not do.

One of the manipulative ways of "trying to get you back"

Made perfect sense when you were "in her web"

Now... when you are away from the web.... you just shake your head and think WTF-WIT.....


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Last night was difficult. At one of the projects I manage, we had the first in our annual series of concerts. My stbx always put a lot of time and energy into those. She was so popular with the attendees. I knew it would make me miss the stbx's good side, so I had planned on setting up and then leaving someone else in charge. But I stayed. I wanted to just feel whatever I had to feel and get used to the way things are now. So, I stayed. I was sad. But the event was successful and I survived. 

Ever since we met, the good qualities of stbx were the ones I've always looked for in a partner. I realized last night that's what has kept me on a string for so long - holding out hope that the good would win out over the bad. It just don't happen that way. Probably never does. 

I have to mourn the loss of that part of her and find comfort in the fact that I no longer have deal with the drama of the other side of her. 

What I can hope for now is to someday find those qualities in someone who is healthy. 

BTW, it's kind of nice to wake up on a Sunday with a thousand choices of what to do with the day - my choices!


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Wow. Some people who mean to be helpful really don't help at all. The local sheriff is my friend. He intervened last year when sbtx wanted OM out of her life. The sheriff got his record, called him and warned him he'd be watching his every move and to not contact us again. It worked. Scared the guy. At the time, the sheriff told me about this guy's record - pretty bad - multiple guns, shooting, violence charges. Well, today the sheriff brought me an updated sheet of charges. While sbtx was dark with OM the past few months, OM was busy racking up some more charges and jail time for beating women and interfering with the cops who were trying to help them. 

I know there's not a d$3n thing I can do about it. I know it's not my job to rescue her. But I am worried about her safety. I don' want anyone I love or care for to be hurt, but it's inevitable in this case.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Ever since we met, the good qualities of stbx were the ones I've always looked for in a partner. I realized last night that's what has kept me on a string for so long - holding out hope that the good would win out over the bad. It just don't happen that way. Probably never does.
> 
> 
> BTW, it's kind of nice to wake up on a Sunday with a thousand choices of what to do with the day - my choices!


If you had $1 for every guy who thought that... you could buy the New York Yankees. You aren't alone...

Baseball game on @ 1AM...... God bless West Coast teams!


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Wow. Some people who mean to be helpful really don't help at all. The local sheriff is my friend. He intervened last year when sbtx wanted OM out of her life. The sheriff got his record, called him and warned him he'd be watching his every move and to not contact us again. It worked. Scared the guy. At the time, the sheriff told me about this guy's record - pretty bad - multiple guns, shooting, violence charges. Well, today the sheriff brought me an updated sheet of charges. While sbtx was dark with OM the past few months, OM was busy racking up some more charges and jail time for beating women and interfering with the cops who were trying to help them.
> 
> I know there's not a d$3n thing I can do about it. I know it's not my job to rescue her. But I am worried about her safety. I don' want anyone I love or care for to be hurt, but it's inevitable in this case.


That is NOT your problem anymore. 

She fired you as a H.

Here is her consequences.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> Wow. Some people who mean to be helpful really don't help at all. The local sheriff is my friend. He intervened last year when sbtx wanted OM out of her life. The sheriff got his record, called him and warned him he'd be watching his every move and to not contact us again. It worked. Scared the guy. At the time, the sheriff told me about this guy's record - pretty bad - multiple guns, shooting, violence charges. Well, today the sheriff brought me an updated sheet of charges. While sbtx was dark with OM the past few months, OM was busy racking up some more charges and jail time for beating women and interfering with the cops who were trying to help them.
> 
> I know there's not a d$3n thing I can do about it. I know it's not my job to rescue her. But I am worried about her safety. I don' want anyone I love or care for to be hurt, but it's inevitable in this case.


My crazy ex picked a similar me perfect. Multiple restraining orders, battery chgs, felony drunk drivings, the list goes on and on. Way back when my mess first started, I handed her the printouts of all of his convictions. 

She of course excused his record, victim of circumstances, innocent but had vengeful enemies. He's misunderstood and really a great guy...I still love that one and almost feel to the floor laughing when she said it. 

She is a big girl, she knows what she got herself into. You can't worry about that as cold hearted as it may sound. She made her decisions. 

A word of warning to you, once paradise starts to fall apart don't be surprised if she starts projecting his bad behavior onto you. She gets beat up she could very well say you did it. You are becoming "evil monster" the new Mr perfect can do no wrong so almost everything that goes crappy in her current relationship will be deflected to the relationship you had with her. 

My crazy ex even went so far as to start projecting his drinking onto me. He is an alcoholic. She started telling everyone about what a mean drunk I am and how I'm constantly drinking. For the victim role it plays well for her except I haven't touched booze since 1985. 13 years before I met her.....


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

honcho said:


> My crazy ex picked a similar me perfect. Multiple restraining orders, battery chgs, felony drunk drivings, the list goes on and on. Way back when my mess first started, I handed her the printouts of all of his convictions.
> 
> She of course excused his record, victim of circumstances, innocent but had vengeful enemies. He's misunderstood and really a great guy...I still love that one and almost feel to the floor laughing when she said it.
> 
> ...


PWNC.... and at one time.... Honcho wanted things to work out with her. Take a guess what he'd say now.

At one time Chuck wanted things to work out with his XW. It's been a resounding he!! no since Jan. '13.

You're finding out who she really is. One thing you have to learn is to observe for red flags.

If I knew at 25 what I knew years later.... I would have waited longer to M. Probably still would have....

The first five years were "just too good to be true" .... sounds familiar doesn't it?

Granted I should have walked away two years prior... but I had this weird F'ed up notion that 

"once M, always M.... fight it out" How 1974 was that?


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I had dinner tonight with one of sbtx's best friends... well, best friend when she wasn't on the ever changing black list. 

This friend had tried to warn me that sbtx was back in contact with OM a couple of weeks before my son caught her. 

She wanted to meet up tonight to see if I was ok and to assure me, based on what what she knew about sbtx's lies, that I am making the right decision in moving on. We compared stories. Not much of it was a shock to me. But it did help hearing how disloyal she was and how she had lied to a mutual friend. It just reinforces how finished I am. 

The friend commented on how much it seems I have my stuff together and that it's sbtx's loss. I said, "yes, yes it is her loss." Felt good to have some confidence.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

honcho said:


> My crazy ex picked a similar me perfect. Multiple restraining orders, battery chgs, felony drunk drivings, the list goes on and on. Way back when my mess first started, I handed her the printouts of all of his convictions.
> 
> She of course excused his record, victim of circumstances, innocent but had vengeful enemies. He's misunderstood and really a great guy...I still love that one and almost feel to the floor laughing when she said it.
> 
> ...


Mine knows OM's record and about his acoholism. According to a friend, she's excusing it with the same line... "He's misunderstood and really a great guy." Society's fault!

I am glad she's 500 miles away so she can't blame me when he hits her. Of course, that might not stop her from trying to blame me.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> I had dinner tonight with one of sbtx's best friends... well, best friend when she wasn't on the ever changing black list.


This sounds so familiar. My crazy ex best friend was "blacklisted" at the same time she left me. She walked away from all of her old friends, even childhood friends.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

sapientia said:


> Wow, that's quite the story. Anyone would want to run away from that.
> 
> As for the emotions - a friend shared a wise quote with me during my divorce that I've found useful in several situations since then:
> 
> ...


Thank you. That is great advice. Walk help me tremendously.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> Mine knows OM's record and about his acoholism. According to a friend, she's excusing it with the same line... "He's misunderstood and really a great guy." Society's fault!
> 
> I am glad she's 500 miles away so she can't blame me when he hits her. Of course, that might not stop her from trying to blame me.


I was in a different state on a fishing trip when she tried to claim I was breaking into her boyfriend house in her first restraining order attempt.

One time I literally had a sheriff standing in my office telling me she was claiming I was monitoring and reading her text messages and harassing her. She called him screaming that I was trying to kick the door in at her house. The cop was 2 feet away from me yet I was miles away trying to get into a house......

Never underestimate crazy.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

honcho said:


> I was in a different state on a fishing trip when she tried to claim I was breaking into her boyfriend house in her first restraining order attempt.
> 
> One time I literally had a sheriff standing in my office telling me she was claiming I was monitoring and reading her text messages and harassing her. She called him screaming that I was trying to kick the door in at her house. The cop was 2 feet away from me yet I was miles away trying to get into a house......
> 
> Never underestimate crazy.


That's some crazy! I consider myself forewarned.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm known to have a few beers during my NFL fav team on the tele. Not an often thing. Anyhows....

had beer bottles lined up.... here it came "you're so drunk........"

I had her son taste the bottles, you'd think I was Woody Allen.....

He sipped each..... "mom it's water" I smiled at her

As her fat arse stormed out of the den

I wasn't the first to sling schit..... but gladly will say "returned favors are much rewarded"


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I had a put it all in perspective kind of moment today. Part of my GAL is learning to fly, something I started years ago, stopped, and then picked up again after my stbx left the first time. A friend of mine took me and two other friends up today in his plane. He miscalculated the weight and balance. We were over the gross weight. 

We live in a mountainous area. One end of the runway departs into the open valley, the other into a valley with mountain ridges on either side. The idea when taking off that direction is to gain enough altitude to cross through a cut in the lowest ridge. That's the departure he chose. 

As we took off today, the plane struggled to climb. We were flying below the ridge line with no altitude to cut through the low ridge. In front and on the other side are mountains that rise to between 4000 and 5000 ft. At times the plane was sinking toward the trees. When he would try to climb the airspeed would drop and the stall warning would sound. I was in the back so I had no way of helping. It was a strange feeling. Everyone was tense and scared. I sort of felt resigned to the fact that we were going down. I only remember thinking that hoped everyone would be ok and that it wouldn't hurt to much and that I would rather it be quick if I was going to die. But I felt strangely calm. 

Luckily, my friend didn't panic. He did a series of maneuvers where he leveled the plane to pick up speed and then climbed - sort of in steps. We flew a long way beside the ridge before we turned and cleared it just above the tree tops. We might have had 100 feet. He turned into the pattern and took us back in for a safe landing. 

He was very shaken and apologetic when we got in. The folks at the airport said they were watching and were sure we were going to crash. My friend said it was the worse thing he could imagine. I said no, it wasn't. We were alive and on the ground and able to fly again soon!

Good to be home tonight.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Perspective. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Oh my goodness! I'm glad you are okay. It must have been a huge relief to land safely.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

A huge relief and sort of a good rush the rest of the day. 

The buzz kill came a few minutes ago when I got two missed calls, a text and an email from stbx asking "Are you okay?" ... unrelated to the incident in the plane which she wouldn't know about. My mind was in a good spot. I didn't want to hear from her.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

sapientia said:


> Wow, what a story. Glad you are okay. So what was going on with the aircraft that this happened?


It was carrying too much weight. With four of us on board, it's a small Cessna 172, we should have had less fuel so the aircraft wouldn't be so heavy. It just couldn't perform with the weight. My friend didn't do his weight and balance math correctly. Hopefully, he learned his lesson today.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> I had a put it all in perspective kind of moment today. Part of my GAL is learning to fly, something I started years ago, stopped, and then picked up again after my stbx left the first time. A friend of mine took me and two other friends up today in his plane. He miscalculated the weight and balance. We were over the gross weight.
> 
> We live in a mountainous area. One end of the runway departs into the open valley, the other into a valley with mountain ridges on either side. The idea when taking off that direction is to gain enough altitude to cross through a cut in the lowest ridge. That's the departure he chose.
> 
> ...


ONLY one way to fly........ Pink Floyd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVhNCTH8pDs


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

sapientia said:


> Holy crap. Not that I am recommending as a primary method, but isn't there an app to help calc this stuff as a double-check? I assume he was the only pilot onboard?
> 
> Again, glad you are okay. Have a whiskey or two or ten tonight, you deserve it.


Actually, there are plenty of apps that make the calculations really easy. But, my buddy did it on paper. 

He was the only licensed pilot. Me and another guy have student certificates. The other guy's daughter doesn't fly. 

We're going up again this morning - just me and the pilot. Just the two of us, it will be fine weight wise, but I do have an app on my phone to calculate it now. No more paper!


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Had a great flight this morning. Smooth air. No troubles at all. It made me feel all the more thankful for getting in safe yesterday.

I felt the strongest today that I have in a long time. I think I enjoyed the day without much sadness. 

Had an IC session this afternoon. My counselor said this was the strongest and calmest he'd ever seen me. We talked about BPD some. He compared some of his BPD clients' behaviour with that of my stbx.... exactly the same, like a script. We're working on me not feeling so responsible for her behaviour or the way things turned out. Kind of a "do you think you're God? Omnipotent? what makes you think you can control the outcome of everything or everyone's emotions?" It helps me think in that way. Some of you all have given the same advice. 

It's interesting that I've learned to detach from my son's behaviour and my family. I love them and want the best for them, but I know I can't control their behaviours or the outcomes... same with work. I just say what I think, set my personal boundaries and accept what happens. It's a mystery why I couldn't detach that way with sbtx. I'm getting there. 

The counselor also told me to accept the fact, as many of you also told me, that I have to mourn the good part of my marriage. He suggested some sort of memorial to that past. So, I picked a rose from a rose bush she bought me to plant in the yard a while back. It was one of those 'just because' gifts. It looks and smells good. So, I brought it in the house. It made me smile about the good times, made me appreciate them in the way you do with someone who is gone forever. It felt good not to be angry or make those memories complicated, just accepted as something in the past. 

I know there will be ups and downs, but this plateau feels good.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I am thankful for the distance between me and sbtx. I don't have to constantly worry about her showing up at my door like before. The calm and space gives me time to put my life back together.

She sent a text and e-mailed asking if I'm okay. I only responded, "doing good. Thanks." I also got a message from her family that I haven't read yet. She's tried calling a few times, but I don't feel like talking.

We have a lot of storms pass through the mountains here in the spring. I sit on my porch and look off to the north. In the distance, I can see silent flashes of lightning. Here it's calm, just the crickets chirping. But somewhere over the ridges, I know it's loud, windy, wet, and violent. 

That reminds me of where I am right now. It's calm here, but I know somewhere the drama is raging. I see faint flashes of it and it makes me thankful for the quiet.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pwnc said:


> I am thankful for the distance between me and sbtx. I don't have to constantly worry about her showing up at my door like before. The calm and space gives me time to put my life back together.
> 
> She sent a text and e-mailed asking if I'm okay. I only responded, "doing good. Thanks." I also got a message from her family that I haven't read yet. She's tried calling a few times, but I don't feel like talking.
> 
> ...


You are setting some good boundaries. You aren't giving reasons for not wanting to talk to her. You are simply owning your feelings that you don't want to talk to her. That's great. You don't need a reason.

She does stir up drama. That's her life. Good thing you don't have to live like that with her anymore. 

You are doing well. You may have down days when you are sad, but you are building excellent boundaries to protect yourself now and in the future. Good jo.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> I am thankful for the distance between me and sbtx. I don't have to constantly worry about her showing up at my door like before. The calm and space gives me time to put my life back together.
> 
> She sent a text and e-mailed asking if I'm okay. I only responded, "doing good. Thanks." I also got a message from her family that I haven't read yet. She's tried calling a few times, but I don't feel like talking.
> 
> ...


Wants to save a felon who uses her but.... still wants to attempt to string you along.

You have no kids together..... NC / 180. Any contact from her comes with "an angle"

She needs to save herself.... to he!! with Mr. Police Reports....

She doesn't want to save you because.... that's your job with her. Until recently.....

Notice calls / texts from her increase at the same time you set up strict boundaries. Odd huh... LOL


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Chuck and his nick names... 

Henceforth, the OM is now MPR...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> to he!! with Mr. Police Reports....


Ha! That made coffee come through my nose!

I guarantee her attempts at contact will increase now that I'm feeling good again. That's been the pattern in the past. But... it didn't take me long to turn around this time and I'm not even slightly interested in talking to her. First time feeling indifference towards her. 

Family contacted me to ask the name of a place we visited last year. Obviously they're still being lied to. Oh well!


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

lots of calls and text from sbtx tonight. She says she wants to make sure I'm ok and doing well. And she tells me she's out of money already. Wants to sign the separation papers soon. 

I only answered that I'm fine thanks... papers coming soon. She asked me to call, but I didn't want to. 

Guess MPR, as Chuck calls him, ain't taking care of her after all.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pwnc said:


> lots of calls and text from sbtx tonight. She says she wants to make sure I'm ok and doing well. And she tells me she's out of money already. Wants to sign the separation papers soon.
> 
> I only answered that I'm fine thanks... papers coming soon. She asked me to call, but I didn't want to.
> 
> Guess MPR, as Chuck calls him, ain't taking care of her after all.


It's good you can see things for what they are. You will no longer allow yourself to be part of her plan. You know her true colors.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> lots of calls and text from sbtx tonight. She says she wants to make sure I'm ok and doing well. And she tells me she's out of money already. Wants to sign the separation papers soon.
> 
> I only answered that I'm fine thanks... papers coming soon. She asked me to call, but I didn't want to.
> 
> Guess MPR, as Chuck calls him, ain't taking care of her after all.


Do you recall last year when I recommended you read my thread Crossroads: Sink or Swim?

Remember your reply to me after reading it? Your STBXW is playing out my XW / WC almost to a tee.

She's being nice because she wants the D..... if she is D, MPR and her can dance off into the 

moonlight like a 1980s John Hughes film. But be wary.... she knows you want all this pain to end so 

you just might cave in the D to get it done quicker. She is being nice to get a better D settlement and...

to be in the arms of her hero, MPR. The moment you "buck up" to her, things will change.

And watch out for her "used snatch." Play the game as YOUR D settlement ASAP vs. her getting to be 

in MPRs arms. It will take a bit of time for her to take the bait, but she will.

Chuck... why so descriptive? I am finishing up a three book trilogy and a M man has a WW who does

this to him, or tries to.

Wow... Chuck... TAM has really gotten to you. Nah... that part of book #3 was written about two 

months before my DDay in 2012. Few months before I even knew TAM existed.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> you just might cave in the D to get it done quicker. She is being nice to get a better D settlement and...


Well, she's out of luck there. The separation papers are already being drawn up, but the divorce still takes a year. And, there is no settlement. Last year, I was willing to do that. This year, I'm not giving anything.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Just got a text from sbtx - "I hate you."

That was a quick turn around from trying to butter me up!

No one has said those words to me since my son was 9 years old and he didn't get his way.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Just got a text from sbtx - "I hate you."
> 
> That was a quick turn around from trying to butter me up!
> 
> No one has said those words to me since my son was 9 years old and he didn't get his way.


:rofl:

A quick jab is so tempting at this point, but staying dark is best.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Just got a text from sbtx - "I hate you."
> 
> That was a quick turn around from trying to butter me up!
> 
> No one has said those words to me since my son was 9 years old and he didn't get his way.


Good grief. At least you can see it for what it is. Had you considered blocking her number?


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

For the life of me...... I can't understand WITF some states require a year before D. Maybe laws made

with big money influences from the church? In TN (in 2012) it was 60 days, 90 if children. PWNC would do

a cartwheel on Utube if he could get it done as fast. Heck it wasn't but 30 days (60 kids) in GA.

And it could be shaved down if you brought the judge a bucket of KFC with three sides. 

But yeah... you're the hero and the villain rolled into one. Next time she tries to play nice or wants to

walk down memory lane.... try this "Do you remember the night at the lake, watching the sunset, we went 

behind the bathrooms and I pinned you against the wall.... you had that black dress on.... you dropped 

your panties and flipped them into a tree and.... "PWNC... that WAS NOT me"

Oh... I'm sorry.... have a nice day


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I feel like I'm slipping today. Just a couple of days ago, I was looking good (according to everyone around) and feeling good... moving on. Now, I'm back to sad again. 

I turned off all devices last night and got away, I was in the mood to be away from people. The "I hate you" didn't do much to me during the day, but last night, it messed with me. This afternoon when I turned on the phone. Three texts from sbtx. The first two were apologies and her telling me of course she doesn't hate me... that she knows I've moved on this time... she won't try to get me back... she knows it's too late... she'll stop trying to contact me... good bye husband. 

Maybe I'm a sap, but the good bye husband threw me into the dark. It plowed up all kinds of feelings. She texted begging for a reply to know that I am ok. I texted back that I was ok, that I needed to get away from people. She said she didn't want me sad. She hasn't told her family, but they ask for me. She wants me to stay connected to them. 

She wants me to call. I agreed to later. But now, I'm so down. Not a good idea to call in this state. 

I feel like I'm backsliding on myself. Like I owe myself an apology. The feelings I have for the good her just welled back up and I feel miserable again. 

I appreciate any encouragement, strong chastisement or a general kick in the pants.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> I feel like I'm slipping today. Just a couple of days ago, I was looking good (according to everyone around) and feeling good... moving on. Now, I'm back to sad again.
> 
> I turned off all devices last night and got away, I was in the mood to be away from people. The "I hate you" didn't do much to me during the day, but last night, it messed with me. This afternoon when I turned on the phone. Three texts from sbtx. The first two were apologies and her telling me of course she doesn't hate me... that she knows I've moved on this time... she won't try to get me back... she knows it's too late... she'll stop trying to contact me... good bye husband.
> 
> ...


You took the bait. The hate you, the goodbye jibberish was basically meaningless and intended to accomplish one thing, for you to engage her. Quit taking the bait


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

honcho said:


> You took the bait. The hate you, the goodbye jibberish was basically meaningless and intended to accomplish one thing, for you to engage her. Quit taking the bait


You're right. I feel like a trout that's been hooked about 10 times. 

I don't know why, since it's over, she wants to engage. What the [email protected]#$ to people want?

Angry with myself.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

JFC.

Get a new phone w/ a new number. Don't give the new number to her or to anyone that might give it to her.

Turn the old phone off and place it on a charger. Turn it on every other day to check texts and messages, but don't reply to ANY from your STBXW. After a month, factory reset it and turn it off for good.

Instruct STBXW to contact you ONLY via email, and that you'll not be responding to any texts or phone calls. And, just in case someone does leak your new number to her, have her number blocked on the new line.

Tell her family that she was caught cheating again, and w/ the same guy, and that she's left for him -- again -- and won't be back, ever.

Get papers to her ASAP.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> You're right. I feel like a trout that's been hooked about 10 times.
> 
> I don't know why, since it's over, she wants to engage. What the [email protected]#$ to people want?
> 
> Angry with myself.


Are you really so naively blind?

She's keeping her Plan B -- that's you -- on the line.

Stop taking the bait.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She's trying every angle to get to you..... and she did. You have no kids together.... so NO CONTACT.

A woman's two last resorts is to use the kids, which you have none together or... throw out the snatch.

WIBadger has a short thread from a couple years ago, she tried that. Check his out.

You hurt now but you are recovering. If you go back to her.... it's like cocaine. You will feel wonderful 

for about four months.... then the W/Ds come in... you'll feel like schit, a fool and guess what.... 

OM will return and it will be Round 3. Nothing changes but the dates on the calendar.

Edit..... wrong screen name, here is his story, 8 pages.....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/172938-trying-get-through.html


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Is there any legitimate need for her to contact you? Shouldn't everything go through the attorneys? 
If there is some need for her to reach you, please get that resolved immediately and then stop communicating with her on any level.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

No. I won't be plan B. Still moving ahead. Felt good again today. Working on my codependency with the IC. Chuck is right, I'm like an addict. I have to treat it that way. 

Your logic ever get in an argument with your codependent side? I know better.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Fool me once........shame on you
Fool me twice......shame on me.
Fool me three times....you must like pain


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Guess I'll be learning to live alone. My son texted me today to tell me that he's found a place and will be moving out this weekend. 

I'm not afraid of being alone, but it is going to be lonely around here - empty house, empty farm.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Jest go owt an git yous a Daisy Duke farm hand. Nuffin mor sexy then a female chasun chikuns n milken cows

*smile*


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Guess I'll be learning to live alone. My son texted me today to tell me that he's found a place and will be moving out this weekend.
> 
> I'm not afraid of being alone, but it is going to be lonely around here - empty house, empty farm.


Empty nest. It's all part of the journey. You're going to be okay.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Jest go owt an git yous a Daisy Duke farm hand. Nuffin mor sexy then a female chasun chikuns n milken cows
> 
> *smile*


Except for on that chases @pwnc and milks...

You get the picture.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Green Acres (TV Series 1965?1971) - IMDb


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Having people over tomorrow night - get some life back into this house. No chicken chasing though.


----------



## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

pwnc said:


> We've been married four years, no kids.


Change the locks, forget the number, no kids? Why bother with someone like this?


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Eh.... he!! he loved her. He!! I even love my XW but.... for who she was. But that person is dead.

Have a few friends over.... watch a NBA Final, NHL Final, baseball game. Go hiking with your son.

Take the time you would have spent with your STBXW and volunteer. Animal shelters, deliver 

food to the poor / elderly, offer to mow people's yard who can't anymore.

Or do the hobbies you had before the lizard crawled into your life.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

My IC recommended medication today. It's the first time he's recommended it. We're working through my feelings of responsibility for everything... like "here's the list of everything I have done wrong and that's why my wife cheated on me and left me" or my sense that the things I do, even the small ones, will effect life's course to some great degree. It's been so helpful. I'm learning and working on a better me. 

I hate taking medication, but maybe I need it now - trouble sleeping, trouble waking up when I do sleep, and trouble getting things done (focus). I've been getting out, exercising, being with friends, doing hobbies, but I got to get some, or a lot of work done now before I get into a whole new set of problems. 

So my question is, do any of you have experience with anti depressants that also help with focus? 

I took a few different types years ago and had bad experiences. I know this sounds crazy, but I didn't like the way I felt medicated. Most made me sleepy. And one made me feel like my heart was going to beat right out of my chest. I don't remember the names of the medications, except I do remember that Paxil made me feel drowsy all the time.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't know how you do the "new mentions" but Thor had a solid comment about what to take 

and to avoid prescription medication.

My XW took Paxil..... slept all the time and killed her libido.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> My XW took Paxil..... slept all the time and killed her libido.


Turned me into an asexual zombie.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Thor had a solid comment about what to take
> 
> and to avoid prescription medication.


Chuck.. where's Thor's comment?


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I will send him a PM.......


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

The quick answer is 5-HTP for a natural alternative to anti-depressants. 50 mg mid afternoon, another 50 mg mid evening. If after a few days you don't feel a lot better, double the dose to 100 mg at mid afternoon and again mid evening.

Psychologists routinely recommend this amino acid rather than anti-depressant prescriptions. It is a natural amino acid which we need, not some pharma molecule. Studies show it is as effective as the Rx meds for many people.

St. John's Wort seems to work well in studies but it takes about 3 months to become really effective. It is popular in Europe. The time lag is a negative for most people, and I would start with the 5-HTP to see if it works for you.

I am also a big proponent of Vit D. 2000 units daily of D3. Vit D is the sun vitamin which our skin makes when we get sun exposure. Studies always show sun exposure helps depression. They even prescribe "sun" light bulb exposure in the winter time for depression in northern areas where people don't get any real sun exposure in winter (too cold, too dark). Vit D can be toxic at high doses to some people. Look up the symptoms and be on the lookout for those developing. Interestingly, tinnitus (ringing in the ears) is a symptom of too much Vit D, but I've got tinnitus from a reaction to an anti-biotic which is reduced dramatically by high doses of Vit D. 

The B vitamins are good for energy, which can certainly help one feel better even if it isn't specifically fighting the chemical issues of depression. Feeling like you want to go do something is a lot better than feeling wiped out all the time.

Drink lots of water.

Buy and read the book "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross. She details this and other mood issues such as anxiety, as well as sugar cravings etc.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I found out today that a friend of mine, my age, died - suicide. When he was 12, he accidentally shot and killed his little 8 y/o brother - years ago. It always haunted him and I always thought from the way he dealt with it, or didn't, that it might catch up to him. 

My grandmother asked me to go check on my grandfather's grave this afternoon. When I walked into the cemetery, there was my friend's grave. I was shocked. I've been wondering where he was, why I didn't see him around. He died while I was out of the country with my wife. No one told me. 

Last time I saw his mother a couple of weeks ago, she hugged me so tight, told me she loved me, and had tears. Now I know why. 

I can't even imagine the pain she feels. Her husband died 10 years ago. Both her sons are gone. 

This is off topic, but thanks for letting me share it here.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Not off topic at all...... your thread. I had several friends die that way. It's tough. 

I offer my condolences PWNC.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Thor said:


> The quick answer is 5-HTP for a natural alternative to anti-depressants. 50 mg mid afternoon, another 50 mg mid evening. If after a few days you don't feel a lot better, double the dose to 100 mg at mid afternoon and again mid evening.
> 
> Psychologists routinely recommend this amino acid rather than anti-depressant prescriptions. It is a natural amino acid which we need, not some pharma molecule. Studies show it is as effective as the Rx meds for many people.
> 
> ...


Thanks Thor and Chuck.

I picked up vitamin D and 5 HTP today. I was already taking B. 

In my small town, I could only find 5 HTP in 100mg tablets. Took one mid-afternoon. 

Also downloaded "The Mood Cure."


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. It's not off topic to talk about what's going on in your life. I'll reiterate what Chuck said, it's your thread.

You can find anything on the internet. I just often buy supplements from Amazon or Iherb.com.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I have been struggling with work. Partly because my wife did a lot of work on one of the projects, but mostly because my head has been in a fog and my focus has been gone. I've been trying hard to refocus, been exercising at least once a day, trying (without success) to establish a routine again. My mind just won't be still. My body feels like it wants to sleep all the time. Meanwhile, a lot of work isn't getting done. 

My work is project based, so it's fortunately not a set schedule, but unfortunately it's demanding almost seven days a week and it's very public work, so it's hard to take a break. I'm also back in school for a masters. I'm already a week behind in the summer semester. 

I guess I'm getting worried because since it's public service work, my business depends on my reputation. I try to keep private about any personal problems. But I'm wondering if I should just tell the people I work with what's going on?? 

I started the 5-HTP yesterday and noticed better sleep last night.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Can someone else be hired to help out like she used to? Maybe an intern for college credit?

It took about three months after my DDay before I got two good night sleeps back to back.

You're tired, drained, spent... you go to bed... can't sleep. Mind runs "nine-O."

Add in my ADHD and yeah... I may try to hit the bed at 11PM but I saw 3AM often. 

Once I just let go of everything, the questions / answers / why / when / what's.... I returned to

good sleeping. Set aside a few hours a day to focus on your coursework. Summer classes are usually 

more laid back but compacted. Try to stay on top of those.

How did you study in your undergrad coursework years ago?


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I'm looking for volunteers/intern to fill the void. Also found a senior program that might be able to place an employee for free. 

I don't know how I got through undergrad - first wife ran away midway through, became single dad, a lot of skin of my teeth. Haha, it took a while to graduate, but I did it... somehow. 

Chuck, I'm trying to stay on top of the courses. I know it'll pay off in the long run. My interest level is really low right now, but if I can make it through a week or two, I think I'll be fine. 

Actually had a productive afternoon.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Wow! Got up early today. Went flying before work. As I was leaving the airport a girl started talking and flirting with me. Good looking! She actually gave me her number. I didn't ask for it. She gave it to me. Made me feel [email protected]#n good!

Totally unexpected!


----------



## Nix (Jan 23, 2012)

pwnc said:


> First, thank you for this forum!
> 
> My wife has left the marriage three times in the past 5 months. It's been a cycle - disappear for a couple of weeks, contact, come back, perfect feeling marriage for a few weeks, disappear again. Her personality does a 180 within a matter of a few minutes, something new for her. She has no such history in the past. She admitted to cheating last year and has been in and out of contact with the other person. She is currently gone and may well be living with him. I don't know. She claims that I have been a wonderful husband and that there's nothing wrong with me. She "just has to get her head straight." I don't even know what that means.
> 
> ...


When I was in a situation with some similiarities to the above, I continued to pay for my ex's cell, her gas, allowed her to live in the apartment I paid for, etc. and for whatever this is worth, it's the one thing I really regret doing looking back. It ended in a lot of humiliation for me. We were not legally married, in the end she left. I was used by her, plain and simple, and I am sorry to say it sounds like the same thing is happening to you.

If you're legally married, and I'm sure you have received this advice already, I would consult an attorney and begin the process of D. Do things by the book so she can't screw you over later, claim you abandoned her, etc.

Thank god for no kids, it really makes the break SO much easier. If she is not working you might be on the hook for alimony. I don't know about that stuff, I've never been divorced.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Nix said:


> When I was in a situation with some similiarities to the above, I continued to pay for my ex's cell, her gas, allowed her to live in the apartment I paid for, etc. and for whatever this is worth, it's the one thing I really regret doing looking back. It ended in a lot of humiliation for me. We were not legally married, in the end she left. I was used by her, plain and simple, and I am sorry to say it sounds like the same thing is happening to you.
> 
> If you're legally married, and I'm sure you have received this advice already, I would consult an attorney and begin the process of D. Do things by the book so she can't screw you over later, claim you abandoned her, etc.
> 
> Thank god for no kids, it really makes the break SO much easier. If she is not working you might be on the hook for alimony. I don't know about that stuff, I've never been divorced.


Nix, I took her back three times. And man, did I feel humiliated when I was paying her way while she cheated. This time when she left I cut off everything. Finally learned my lesson. My attorney is drawing up separation papers and a way to have everything signed back over to my name. 

It's still hard when I remember the good times and the good her. I'm getting better at just feeling that stuff and working through it. But I feel so much better about myself this time since I didn't allow her to take advantage of me.

The theme throughout all the back and forth is that the OM kept coming back into the picture - a lesson a lot of people on here could learn.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I haven't followed up on the number the girl gave me the other day. I don't feel ready for that kind of thing yet. But I've been getting attention from other girls in my circle of friends. Not ready to act on any of it, but it does feel good knowing I can get back in the game when I'm ready.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pwnc said:


> I haven't followed up on the number the girl gave me the other day. I don't feel ready for that kind of thing yet. But I've been getting attention from other girls in my circle of friends. Not ready to act on any of it, but it does feel good knowing I can get back in the game when I'm ready.


I believe it is unhealthy to get involved in a new relationship before the currently relationship is finished. Since you are still technically married, you are in a current relationship. Separated, yes, but due to the divorce not being final, there are still loose ends to tie up. 
Take this time to heal and be prepared to enter a new relationship from a position of confidence and health.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Nix, I took her back three times. And man, did I feel humiliated when I was paying her way while she cheated. This time when she left I cut off everything. Finally learned my lesson. My attorney is drawing up separation papers and a way to have everything signed back over to my name.
> 
> It's still hard when I remember the good times and the good her. I'm getting better at just feeling that stuff and working through it. But I feel so much better about myself this time since I didn't allow her to take advantage of me.
> 
> The theme throughout all the back and forth is that *the OM kept coming back into the picture* - a lesson a lot of people on here could learn.


The OM came back in the picture because SHE let him.

She honest to goodness thought she could come over and clean your place in a French maid 

outfit..... bang you again and "all's well in PWNC's family." 

Sometimes it takes more than one time for it to stick.... this time.... it stuck (advice)


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> The OM came back in the picture because SHE let him.


Yes. That's absolutely right. I should have said - She kept letting OM back into our marriage. That's a common thread through a lot of the threads here.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> I believe it is unhealthy to get involved in a new relationship before the currently relationship is finished. Since you are still technically married, you are in a current relationship. Separated, yes, but due to the divorce not being final, there are still loose ends to tie up.
> Take this time to heal and be prepared to enter a new relationship from a position of confidence and health.


I agree. I need some time to get healthy and get back on purpose first. And really, I don't have energy to put towards a relationship now. 

So I'll take the ego boost of getting some interest, but I'm going to leave it at that. 

I'm starting to enjoy the freedom of being single.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Yes. That's absolutely right. I should have said - She kept letting OM back into our marriage. That's a common thread through a lot of the threads here.


Did you ever check out this thread? 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...9154-separated-wife-really-want-her-back.html


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Did you ever check out this thread?
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...9154-separated-wife-really-want-her-back.html


Yes, I have and re-read it once too. The ending is inspirational.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Talked on the phone with sbtx last night. We talked about the separation agreement. Kept it on point and brief... for the most part. I've been helping one of her girlfriends with some business that she's unfamiliar with. So, we've been in contact regularly. We have also compared stories from the sbtx. Well, sbtx was trying hard to run interference between us last night on the phone. She was trying to paint her friend in a bad light and trying to paint her as a liar. I think she thinks that there's some interest in me on the part of the friend. I don't know, but I'm not interested at all, just helping her out. 

Anyway, the jealousy was interesting. Especially from someone who is still married and living with another man. So, I got off the phone as soon as I could. She then sends multiple texts about how miserable she is and how unsure she is about her life. I just wished her happiness and said good night. 

I'm still grieving the loss of the good part of her and the good times we had. There's a part of her that truly is a good human being. But, I recognize that for what it is... grief over the loss of that part and that part only. I do not miss the drama and the hurt associated with the rest of her. I felt so detached and distant on the phone last night. It felt right.

She e-mailed me today about the papers from an e-mail account that OM monitors. She was so formal. Haha!

Stuff like that used to get under my skin, now it just makes me thankful that it's not part of my daily life. 

Update on the papers: they are ready. The attorney will send them to me on Monday for review. He also sent me the bill. So, I will have her sign, but I might have to wait to file as it is more expensive than I thought. Since the attorney is a friend, I'm hoping he'll do the work and let me pay later so I can get it done.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

After 70 pages you wanted to choke him. Check this one out...... sage advice on this thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/60683-what-do-i-dont-know.html


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Talked on the phone with sbtx last night. We talked about the separation agreement. Kept it on point and brief... for the most part. I've been helping one of her girlfriends with some business that she's unfamiliar with. So, we've been in contact regularly. We have also compared stories from the sbtx. Well, sbtx was trying hard to run interference between us last night on the phone. She was trying to paint her friend in a bad light and trying to paint her as a liar. I think she thinks that there's some interest in me on the part of the friend. I don't know, but I'm not interested at all, just helping her out.
> 
> Anyway, the jealousy was interesting. Especially from someone who is still married and living with another man. So, I got off the phone as soon as I could. She then sends multiple texts about how miserable she is and how unsure she is about her life. I just wished her happiness and said good night.
> 
> ...


HER misery is from HER actions. Poor ba ba

Maybe she is afraid her F friend will shed light to you on.... her true self. My ex HS / college 

running buddy's XWs g/f told him about what she did (cheating) aka back story.

Spending $200 on a VCR was a viable purchase in..... 1986.... not anymore. Maybe $5 at a yard sale.

See the difference? She was vital to you then.... not anymore. 

How you re-act towards poison females is / has been being watched by your son.

Want him to M one like this one? I doubt you'd want that.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> She e-mailed me today about the papers from an e-mail account that OM monitors. She was so formal.


Making sure her desired Plan B (you) is still fishing.

When you move on.... she will make more reaches than a drunken Roman bath house at 4AM.

At 50k feet...... you will laugh at this hysterically


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Making sure her desired Plan B (you) is still fishing.
> 
> When you move on.... she will make more reaches than a drunken Roman bath house at 4AM.
> 
> At 50k feet...... you will laugh at this hysterically


Happy to say that this fish isn't biting. Don't feel like responding. 

The death of the old stuff still feels raw and hurts like hell sometimes, but I'm able now to keep it separate from the current junk. I feel so detached from it all. I do still love and care for her and hope that someday she can be happy in her life, but I just don't respond to the junk the way I used to. Doesn't phase me. In fact it repels me. And I no longer feel responsible for how she feels or what she does.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Maybe she is afraid her F friend will shed light to you on.... her true self.


Yes, I have learned a lot from the friend that I'm sure stbx didn't want me to learn.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> After 70 pages you wanted to choke him. Check this one out...... sage advice on this thread
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/60683-what-do-i-dont-know.html


Yes, Zillard's thread!


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

We talked again last night. It was supposed to be about the papers, but I needed to sleep, so we didn't really talk more than a minute or so. So she texted that she wanted the papers soon as it would help her start her new life. She says she's sad about the separation... maybe the papers will help force her to move on. Ugggh... once again it's all about her. I'm supposed to spend my time and money for something to help her. It makes me want to take my time paying for them. 

But I need to press forward for me. I'm pushing myself to consider only what's best for me... a new paradigm for me, but it's working. My job to make an awesome life for myself including never allowing anyone in who cheats and lies and not making decisions based on what everyone else wants. 

I'm blowing off a couple of days of work to help my friend fly an airplane half way across the country - a dream for me. It's a spur of the moment kind of thing. Selfish of me to blow everything off, but it feels good to do something like this for a change. All part of the new PWNC package - working out, finishing my pilot's license, finishing my masters, overcoming nice guy syndrome, getting healthy, moving forward.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pay the settlement off however you want..... $500 a month, $50 a month, or $5 a month.

Her needs are on your radar about as much as that cassette you bought of Guns n Roses 25 years ago.

She forced you to think about you..... well here are the consequences. 

Did you ever read ReGroup's thread?


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

We flew for 8 hours, over 1000 miles yesterday. It was amazing. We flew around 500 miles out and then had to come back home immediately. We were working on a deadline to be back and the thunderstorm forecast for the next few days doesn't look good for the other destination we had. So, it was a long, tiring, amazing day of flying yesterday. I can't wait to do it again. 

Although it was a great day, I had a few moments. It's funny what unexpected things will trigger sadness and nostalgia. Oh well. Back home now. Have to focus on work and then the papers. 

Funny Chuck, thank God there's YouTube or I would really miss my Guns and Roses cassette!


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> We flew for 8 hours, over 1000 miles yesterday. It was amazing. We flew around 500 miles out and then had to come back home immediately. We were working on a deadline to be back and the thunderstorm forecast for the next few days doesn't look good for the other destination we had. So, it was a long, tiring, amazing day of flying yesterday. I can't wait to do it again.
> 
> Although it was a great day, I had a few moments. It's funny what unexpected things will trigger sadness and nostalgia. Oh well. Back home now. Have to focus on work and then the papers.
> 
> Funny Chuck, thank God there's YouTube or I would really miss my Guns and Roses cassette!


A friend of mine ferrys planes all over the country for customers for a living. He loves it. He's gotten to fly just about every plane built over the years and gets paid to do it.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

honcho said:


> A friend of mine ferrys planes all over the country for customers for a living. He loves it. He's gotten to fly just about every plane built over the years and gets paid to do it.


Sounds like a dream job!


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Did you ever read ReGroup's thread?


Holy sheit! Mrs. Regroup is my stbx on steroids! I guess that gives me a glimpse of what to expect... thankful though for not having kids involved and having physical distance. 

I have the heaves from laughing. I cannot get the words "ass notch" out of my mind... I'm going to have my whole town using that one!

The quote below from ReGroup is right on and applies 100% to my situation...

"I let her Cake-Eat, I allowed myself to be a doormat, I did not put my foot down, etc… This is all on me. I’m no victim. I allowed her to do this before and during our separation. Now it’s time to do something different. I want to understand what happened and prevent it from happening again."

From my original post on this thread.

Now I have the answer and its clear as freaking day: I let her do it. I gave her all the power. I didn't value myself or what I brought to the table. I felt like a piece of crap, therefore she treated me like a piece of crap."


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Had a great day today. Got enough sleep last night after the flight. Got up. Got things done. 

I helped stbx's girlfriend get a permit today that she's been after for months. I used to be in public service and know all the people and rules involved, so it took some phone calls and some assertiveness, but I got it done. The friend said - "wow, you deal with those people so well, calm and assertive, that's got to be part of what attracted Mrs. Pwnc." I just smiled, but I was thinking... hmmm... if only I had been calm and assertive and persistent to get what I wanted. In the end, I was the opposite with the stbx - I was a needy doormat. I can make things happen, get people to move, and not take [email protected]#, and still be very nice in my professional life, BUT not when it came to stbx. Lesson I gotta learn when it comes to relationships.

So the friend is elated and posted some stuff on her FaceBook about seeing me in action how thankful she is. Well, guess whose phone has been ringing since then.

BTW, I felt more confident today than I have in a long time. It's amazing how attracted people are to confidence. I felt attractive for the first time since I don't know when.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You became complacent. Happens.... you acknowledge it and are correcting it.

Complacency leads to the Weeds of Co-D.

Short threads from Conrad....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155305-weeds-codependence.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/68411-submitting-truth.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/69908-war-stories.html


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Holy sheit! Mrs. Regroup is my stbx on steroids! I guess that gives me a glimpse of what to expect... thankful though for not having kids involved and having physical distance.
> 
> I have the heaves from laughing. I cannot get the words "ass notch" out of my mind... I'm going to have my whole town using that one!
> 
> ...


One hell of a thread, isn't it.

Amazing how it feels to step out of the victim chair...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I'm not sure what triggered it, but I'm in breakdown mode this morning. I had trouble getting up and have one of those hide from the world feelings. Just went outside, sat down and got uncontrollably emotional. I feel so sad. Strange thing is I can't pin point it. Even though I feel lonely, I'm glad no one is around to see me right now. 

I don't know what this is, it's been an hour and it's not stopping.. just comes in waves. 

Locusts buzzing in the summer is one of my favorite sounds. The sound means it's finally summer here. It brings back so many memories of growing up... good memories. But today, it also made me really sad. 

If I didn't have tons of work I'm behind on, I think I'd stay in bed and hide out today. Wow, such a dramatic change from the way I was feeling yesterday.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It's the roller coaster. Perfectly normal. Embrace the pain. The sooner you do so, the less it will hurt the next time it happens. If you need to weep, do so. But don't hide it, bury it, or avoid it. It only prolongs the agony.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I have found this exercise to be helpful. Maybe it will help you too.
"A study done by Positive Psychology further elaborates on the effects of using positive words. A group of adults aged 35-54 were given a nightly task of writing down three things that went well for them that day, including an explanation of why. The following three months showed their degrees of happiness continued to rise, and their feelings of depression continued to decline. By focusing and reflecting on positive ideas and emotions, we can improve our overall well-being and increase functionality of our brain."
Speak With Kindness: How Your Words Literally Restructure Your Brain | Spirit Science


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Sat down outside some more to try to breakdown the breakdown. It's making a little more sense to me. It's a combination of things making me sad.

- My work and studies. I'm still so behind, not only because I was so focused on working on the marriage before, but also because I've been so focused on working on me lately. And days like this don't help either. My job requires a lot of focus and concentration, a lot of writing, and a lot of interaction with people, all of which are impossible when I'm in breakdown mode. Of course my studies also require concentration and focus. Then there's also outside work here that I haven't kept up with. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I can feel the need to refresh - like getting in the truck and going up on the mountain and sitting by a cold creek for a while - but, the weight of everything I need to do would follow me. 

- The slowness of getting to indifference. Although I've detached from any future with stbx, I'm still not there in terms of indifference. She's still in my thoughts and I still, for some unknown reason, care. You would think, after all she's done, that I would be angry and not give a d#$n. Still giving a d#$n makes me feel like an "ass notch." I end up sad about how I'm not focusing on myself when I give a d#$n and mad at myself. I mean how much abuse and disrespect does it take?! And, although I know it's best for me to ignore the phone calls and texts - which I do, it makes me sad that she a person I dread talking to. I miss the her that I loved talking to, that I couldn't wait to talk to.

- The sadness of loss. I guess this one takes a while. As you all have advised, I allow myself to feel it. I feel it for the marriage, but I'm feeling that for my family as well. We used to be a really big, really tight mountain family. But lot's of them have died and those left have such busy lives. The sense of loss also includes the dreams we had together. They were beautiful dreams. We accomplished some and were on our way to accomplishing others. The evidence is all around me at home and at work. 

- Money. I'm in debt for the first time in years. I mean, I've had a mortgage and car payments before, but now I'm in extra debt because we spent so much the past year and a half while trying to fix the marriage (travel, building a house for her family, overspending). Normally, I can come up with a strategy and take on extra contracts to get out of it. Eventually that's what I'll do, but my lack of focus is keeping me from it right now. It's weighing on me.

- The papers. I have the papers. They need minor edits, but they're ready to send to her. I dread sending them because I know it's going to lead to another big episode for which I don't have the energy. I don't feel ready. I want to be ready so I can deal with this in a way that I can feel good about myself. I don't want to be drawn in. I don't want to give in. At the same time, I don't want to be a butt. I want to prioritize my needs and be firm while also being compassionate. I don't hate her, nor do I want revenge or punishment.

Understand that I don't feel like a victim in all of this. In fact, it's the opposite. I have to keep fighting the thought that somehow this is my karma.

Highs and lows. I'm glad I can vent here. I don't want her or my family to see me like this.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> I have found this exercise to be helpful. Maybe it will help you too.
> "A study done by Positive Psychology further elaborates on the effects of using positive words. A group of adults aged 35-54 were given a nightly task of writing down three things that went well for them that day, including an explanation of why. The following three months showed their degrees of happiness continued to rise, and their feelings of depression continued to decline. By focusing and reflecting on positive ideas and emotions, we can improve our overall well-being and increase functionality of our brain."
> Speak With Kindness: How Your Words Literally Restructure Your Brain | Spirit Science


Thank you CynthiaDe.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I don't think you need down time. I think you need to find your focus and get moving. You know you can do it. You've done it countless times before. Find your focus today. Make a plan and stick to it. Include time to care for yourself in that plan, then focus like crazy on each item as you complete it. 

You can do this.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Chuck works for a large PR firm in Chicago. He started while in college as a part timer. He stayed on after graduation. He climbed the ladder. Chuck is now 41, 20 years with company, three steps from the top. Well respected, highly influential. 

While on a high end corporate retreat Chuck gets in on with a higher up's daughter. She was 16. Guess what happens? Even though Chuck did a great many things for the company.... he gets fired.

I'm sure your W did many a great things for you over the years.... so did mine. More great things than bad... Every time you start getting sentimental... just recall her walking out on you and shacking up with MDF. 

But... but she did so many things without me asking. Well.... she wouldn't give up POSOM when you did ask... more than once.

We can see good in anyone.... if we try, just as we can see bad in any one if we try. A BS will opposite what the WS does. The WS re-writes history, blame shifts, sees every thing the BS does as hideous. Whereas the BS sees everything the WS did in the good times, not exactly re-writing history but more of an omittion of history.

When you think of the great things she did.... counter with one of the bad ones. Recall when she was laid up with him, spending your money, laughing at you while you were going through an emotional he!!.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> - The papers. I have the papers. They need minor edits, but they're ready to send to her. I dread sending them because I know it's going to lead to another big episode for which I don't have the energy. I don't feel ready. I want to be ready so I can deal with this in a way that I can feel good about myself. I don't want to be drawn in. I don't want to give in. At the same time, I don't want to be a butt. I want to prioritize my needs and be firm while also being compassionate. I don't hate her, nor do I want revenge or punishment.
> 
> 
> Highs and lows. I'm glad I can vent here. I don't want her or my family to see me like this.


Get the papers sent out. You will find once you do this most of your other procrastination problems will fall to the wayside. The not doing this is weighing on you more than you realize. She will pull a big episode? Maybe but you can't control that and your probably never going to be fully ready.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

I got the most pressing work done that I needed to get done today... things due tomorrow. Still lots to do. 

I've decided on the changes, minor ones, I want on the separation papers. I want to send them tomorrow... just bite the bullet. It's most likely going to be messy, so might as well get it over with. 

On another note, stbx's friend is getting a little too close. She's being nice and grateful for my help with her permit - brought me some food and such. That's nice, but she's texting a lot and already assuming that we will spend time together this weekend. I'm going to be clear to her that we won't be spending time together. No relationships. I'm not in the right place for it. I need time for myself. And I'm still married. It would feel like cheating at this point. Not to mention, a little weird that she's sbtx's friend.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

See why Mickey wanted Rocky to stay away from women in the original Rocky?


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OP I read your story. Rough. Just remember one thing The Sooner You End It The Sooner You Will Get Better. Think of it like this, you have cancer and you can't start to heal until you get it cut out of you. You need to clean the infection. 

After that I suggest you start working on why you are picking woman like this last one. I only say that because this is your second divorce. I mean no offense but I would do that before I move to the next relationship. Something is up, you are interpreting something wrong about these woman. Again no offense. 

Hang in there man. You can do this. 

TSYEITSUWGB


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

pwnc said:


> I got the most pressing work done that I needed to get done today... things due tomorrow. Still lots to do.
> 
> I've decided on the changes, minor ones, I want on the separation papers. I want to send them tomorrow... just bite the bullet. It's most likely going to be messy, so might as well get it over with.
> 
> On another note, stbx's friend is getting a little too close. She's being nice and grateful for my help with her permit - brought me some food and such. That's nice, but she's texting a lot and already assuming that we will spend time together this weekend. I'm going to be clear to her that we won't be spending time together. No relationships. I'm not in the right place for it. I need time for myself. And I'm still married. It would feel like cheating at this point. Not to mention, a little weird that she's sbtx's friend.


It is good you realize and don't need the attention to make you feel good about yourself. Keep to what you said here, be honest with her and you will feel better about your goals for yourself.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

sokillme said:


> After that I suggest you start working on why you are picking woman like this last one. I only say that because this is your second divorce. I mean no offense but I would do that before I move to the next relationship. Something is up, you are interpreting something wrong about these woman. Again no offense.


Yes, I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Another reason I want to take my time. It's my second divorce (something I said I would never do), plus there was another 9 year live-in relationship in between the two marriages.... number 1 - crazy drama, number 2 - boring, number 3 - crazy drama.

Once I get through this one, it's definitely something I'm working on.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> It is good you realize and don't need the attention to make you feel good about yourself. Keep to what you said here, be honest with her and you will feel better about your goals for yourself.


I was invited out this weekend by the friend. I told her no and that I'm not in any condition to go out, even casually. I did say that I'd be up for hanging out in mix groups of friends, but no dates, no alone time.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

The drama train left the station last night, but pwnc did not ride. 

I sent the papers yesterday. Got a message back with a couple of demands, one reasonable, two others not. I can see this is going to be a longer process than I thought, but I feel good that it's moving. 

So, last night, stbx texts asking if she can call. Assuming it was to talk about the papers, I said, "yes after my classes." Then, I get four missed calls from OM Mr. Police Reports. Of course, I didn't answer. Classes were four hours. Didn't have the phone with me. After classes, I have some text messages from stbx. "He wants me to call you to come pick me up." Remember, she's about 500 miles away. Then, according to the time stamp, an hour later, "never mind, he's going to help me get on my feet. Sorry to have messaged you about this." Then later, "don't worry about me. I'm fine."

What would the old doormat pwnc have done? He would have gotten in the car, driven all night only to discover that stbx and Mr. Police Reports had already made up by the time he arrived and stbx no longer needed his services. 

What did the new pwnc do?

I didn't do a d#$n thing! No reply, nothing. Tuned the phone off and went to sleep. Felt so good to stay off that ride!


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Life is good at 50k feet.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

pwnc said:


> OM Mr. Police Reports.


Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode "he is a loathsome, offensive brute, yet I can't look away"


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> The drama train left the station last night, but pwnc did not ride.
> 
> I sent the papers yesterday. Got a message back with a couple of demands, one reasonable, two others not. I can see this is going to be a longer process than I thought, but I feel good that it's moving.
> 
> ...


Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't SHE trying to fix HIM?

That's like asking a meth tweeker to play freeze tag.

MPR is starting to realize she won't be his bankroll any more. They won't last long. Awww po ba ba

It's like I told AFPhoenix... the first time you face "Vader" it's scary as he!!. Each time you face

her and win, gets easier and easier. You're climbing.... keep on 'a climbin'


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> The drama train left the station last night, but pwnc did not ride.
> 
> I sent the papers yesterday. Got a message back with a couple of demands, one reasonable, two others not. I can see this is going to be a longer process than I thought, but I feel good that it's moving.
> 
> ...


I wish I could "Like" this a hundred more times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> It's like I told AFPhoenix... '


I wonder how he and BOFA are doing. I had a young fella read his thread since his life was so similar. I wonder if Raider is still with the dude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Absurdist said:


> I wonder how he and BOFA are doing. I had a young fella read his thread since his life was so similar. I wonder if Raider is still with the dude.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He started a LaD thread but then vanished like a fart in a baking soda factory.

I doubt Raider Baiter and Jack Schit are still together but, if they are LMAO... they're peas in a pod.

Always loved his posts about his D16 and her long distance b/f.... they mirrored the two main 

characters in one of my books to the point it was jaw dropping


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't SHE trying to fix HIM?
> 
> That's like asking a meth tweeker to play freeze tag.
> 
> ...


Her friend tells me that MPR is already tired of her mooching. It won't last long. Then, on to the next victim. 

Meanwhile, I'm a climbin'.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Four more 1 am calls last night. One more text. "Please don't worry about me. I'm ok."

Phone off. Ignored. Back to sleep.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Her friend tells me that MPR is already tired of her mooching. It won't last long. Then, on to the next victim.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm a climbin'.


Have a plan in place for when she shows back up on your doorstep.

And if you haven't changed locks yet, do that ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> Her friend tells me that MPR is already tired of her mooching. It won't last long. Then, on to the next victim.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm a climbin'.


Paradise rarely lasts forever and right about the time official paperwork is ready to be signed the new mr/miss perfect realize they could get stuck with the ws. They had their fun, they want no real responsibility so it's time to dump.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Her friend tells me that MPR is already tired of her mooching. It won't last long. Then, on to the next victim.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm a climbin'.


A moocher can not co-habitat with another moocher. Their moocherness collide.

Re-affirm your boundaries.... when MPR boots her.... guess where she will look to.. to be saved.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Four more 1 am calls last night. One more text. "Please don't worry about me. I'm ok."
> 
> Phone off. Ignored. Back to sleep.


You are doing fantastic. There is no reason to ever speak to her again about anything other than divorce related. You are no longer her friend. She made herself into you enemy. Always remember who she really is - your enemy. That will help you to stay out of her drama.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Have a plan in place for when she shows back up on your doorstep.
> 
> And if you haven't changed locks yet, do that ASAP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I changed the locks a week after she left this time. 

Because of her lack of transportation, money, and the distance I haven't seen it as a real possibility that she would show up here. I still think it's highly unlikely she'll show up. But just in case, I would take suggestions on a plan. She has no where to stay if she comes back here and she can't stay at my house.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Stand still.......

What if.... is just borrowing trouble. Proceed with your life.

Down the road, if needed, obtain a RO.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pwnc said:


> I changed the locks a week after she left this time.
> 
> Because of her lack of transportation, money, and the distance I haven't seen it as a real possibility that she would show up here. I still think it's highly unlikely she'll show up. But just in case, I would take suggestions on a plan. She has no where to stay if she comes back here and she can't stay at my house.


Her problems are not your problems. Don't take her problems on.
Do not act like you have anything to do with her problems.
If she contacts you for advice, ignore her. 
The only contact you should have with her should be business matters. That's it. If she wants to talk about something else, ignore. 
If she thinks you might be an option for her, she'll likely start small by contacting you for chit chat or advice and then suck you in. Don't even let your little finger get sucked in.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Any time you feel down...... imagine if you and her had a few kids.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Stand still.......
> 
> What if.... is just borrowing trouble. Proceed with your life.
> 
> Down the road, if needed, obtain a RO.



I was answering Gus' question about a plan for if she shows up. I hadn't thought about it because I can't see that happening. 

Otherwise, I'm proceeding on with life. Working hard, enjoying being single and living in the DFZ, drama free zone. 

All has been quiet and it sure is nice.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> All has been quiet and it sure is nice.


The quiet, it becomes a welcome relief but be mindful of games your brain will play on you....you'll start to be worried it's been too quiet and wonder what stunt she will pull. They rarely just go quietly into the night.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Stand still is best practice but as I told another guy... also "be ready"

Desperate people do desperate things.... things normal, sane people wouldn't.

On TAM and in person, I've seen some crazy stuff happen, totally unpredicted.... 

As you said yourself, you can't put anything past her


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Been really quiet the last few days. Stbx tried to call once. Texted to ask if I'm ok and that's it. Seems to be losing interest, haha.

I've heard that she's found a job in her new town. 

Single life and peace and quiet is getting awesome.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Wow, I had a great weekend. Spent the whole weekend with family and friends. So many good people in my life. I am thankful and grateful. How did I ever have time for all that other stuff?

One of my best buddies got a shock today. He got engaged just a few weeks ago. His fiance drove 5 hours to get here to see him. When she got here, she broke it off. Says she's not feeling it in her gut... needs time to figure out what her gut is telling her. They've been dating for years... trade out weekends driving to see each other. She doesn't have a history of lying, cheating, drama or anything like that. She's level headed, straightforward, professional, and shows her love and affection for him. It's a shocker. Devastating for him. He plans on giving her time. After my experiences, I can't help but being a little suspicious.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Wow, I had a great weekend. Spent the whole weekend with family and friends. So many good people in my life. I am thankful and grateful. How did I ever have time for all that other stuff?
> 
> One of my best buddies got a shock today. He got engaged just a few weeks ago. His fiance drove 5 hours to get here to see him. When she got here, she broke it off. Says she's not feeling it in her gut... needs time to figure out what her gut is telling her. They've been dating for years... trade out weekends driving to see each other. She doesn't have a history of lying, cheating, drama or anything like that. She's level headed, straightforward, professional, and shows her love and affection for him. It's a shocker. Devastating for him. He plans on giving her time. After my experiences, I can't help but being a little suspicious.


Might need to show that guy the 180 link....


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Well, I screwed up tonight. I got caught up in text drama with stbx. She wanted me to resend the separation papers, so I did. 

When I did, she said it was "trickery," I was trying to "trick her, take everything." So, my mistake was answering. I told her,"no, it's not trickery, it was written by my lawyer and we can write it however we agree to write it". I said, "you know me better than that." I mean, I can't believe she would think I would be into tricking her. Not something I would do. 

She said "yes, I'm getting to know you really well now. I don't trust you. I don't trust your lawyer. The way you're doing this has broken me." I said, "no one is forcing you to do anything. You're the one who wanted separation and divorce." Then, I get the mind-screw. She says, "you're saying you don't want separation or divorce? You should have thought of that before you did something to ruin the marriage. Well, too bad. You don't have to struggle. I still hurt. I always have to hurt an struggle. You get to be happy. You should be happy."

Ugg. I worked so hard for the marriage. I sacrificed work, money, health. Meanwhile, she chose another man over her marriage. She's hurt!?!?!?

Dang, I wish I hadn't gotten sucked in. For sure she won't be signing any papers now.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Wow, I had a great weekend. Spent the whole weekend with family and friends. So many good people in my life. I am thankful and grateful. How did I ever have time for all that other stuff?
> 
> One of my best buddies got a shock today. He got engaged just a few weeks ago. His fiance drove 5 hours to get here to see him. When she got here, she broke it off. Says she's not feeling it in her gut... needs time to figure out what her gut is telling her. They've been dating for years... trade out weekends driving to see each other. She doesn't have a history of lying, cheating, drama or anything like that. She's level headed, straightforward, professional, and shows her love and affection for him. It's a shocker. Devastating for him. He plans on giving her time. After my experiences, I can't help but being a little suspicious.


It ain't exactly rocket science.

Odds are she's eyeing someone a bit closer to home. Hell, she may have been eyeing him for a while and only just now cinched him. Soft landing assured, time to bail.

Or maybe not. Maybe she's on the level and is genuinely rethinking things due to all the logistics involved.

Either way, don't let him re-engage her -- at _any_ level -- w/o both eyes open.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pwnc said:


> Well, I screwed up tonight. I got caught up in text drama with stbx. She wanted me to resend the separation papers, so I did.
> 
> When I did, she said it was "trickery," I was trying to "trick her, take everything." So, my mistake was answering. I told her,"no, it's not trickery, it was written by my lawyer and we can write it however we agree to write it". I said, "you know me better than that." I mean, I can't believe she would think I would be into tricking her. Not something I would do.
> 
> ...


You're in a long race, not a sprint -- you're going to stumble. Get up, shake the dirt off, and get back to it.

Talk w/ your lawyer tomorrow to keep him in the loop in case you need to change tactics.

Wherever it is that you're documenting everything, BACK IT UP. Think "Cloud". If you've not yet changed passwords to e-mail, social media, etc, do so ASAP. Set up a Canary or Dropcam just in case she happens to drop by unannounced.

And just in case no one has said it yet, read @ReGroup's thread for some tips/tricks on dealing w/ your STBXW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks Gus. That'll be my plan. Dusting off. Getting back up.

I keep everything she sends. It's all recorded as we don't talk on the phone any more. I changed all of the passwords the day after she left. 

I'll check out the cam. 

I did read ReGroups thread a couple of weeks ago. I could use him as a coach.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Dude, repeat after me:

"I am sorry you feel that way."

Then go dark.

And yes, read @ReGroup thread. It will show you exactly how to deal with her.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Whoa. Big, quick turn around. Stbx just texted that she's sorry she was emotional. Says she wants some changes, but will cooperate and sign, so we can get through the separation. 


Meanwhile, I'm climbing back to 50k.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Good. That includes losing the $hits you have to give over her responses, whether emotional or apologetic. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> Whoa. Big, quick turn around. Stbx just texted that she's sorry she was emotional. Says she wants some changes, but will cooperate and sign, so we can get through the separation.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm climbing back to 50k.


It's not a big turnaround, see accomplished her goal and that was to get you to engage her. The whole texting thing really had nothing to do with the papers. This "big turnaround" has nothing to do with the papers. It's to keep you answering her texts.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

honcho said:


> It's not a big turnaround, see accomplished her goal and that was to get you to engage her. The whole texting thing really had nothing to do with the papers. This "big turnaround" has nothing to do with the papers. It's to keep you answering her texts.


You're right. It worked until I pulled my head out of my *@s.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> You're right. It worked until I pulled my head out of my *@s.


We've all taken the bait at some point


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Well, I screwed up tonight. I got caught up in text drama with stbx. She wanted me to resend the separation papers, so I did.
> 
> When I did, she said it was "trickery," I was trying to "trick her, take everything." So, my mistake was answering. I told her,"no, it's not trickery, it was written by my lawyer and we can write it however we agree to write it". I said, "you know me better than that." I mean, I can't believe she would think I would be into tricking her. Not something I would do.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> Well, I screwed up tonight. I got caught up in text drama with stbx. She wanted me to resend the separation papers, so I did.
> 
> When I did, she said it was "trickery," I was trying to "trick her, take everything." So, my mistake was answering. I told her,"no, it's not trickery, it was written by my lawyer and we can write it however we agree to write it". I said, "you know me better than that." I mean, I can't believe she would think I would be into tricking her. Not something I would do.
> 
> ...


The moment you stop taking the bait..... the dumps stop. She's pizzed at MPR and guess who

she dumps it on.... She's used to you taking her anger dumps because you did for years.

She's gone, the M is over, no kids.... no reason to engage. That's why you pay your lawyer.

For every anger dump.... ignore three texts. "You need to contact my attorney about the D."

My XW did that.... for a very short time. I turned it around on her and was baiting.... Yeah she went ballistic....

I was done with her, no kids, I kept all properties. I was amused at her actions. YOU will reach that 

point one day. 

By directing her to go through your attorney she thinks you can't handle her dumps.....LOL

The half wolf half Ger Shep my BiL left with me would catch moles.... toss them up in the air, they'd run,

he'd chase them down, same thing.... few times then kill and eat.

The dog is sadistically playing with the mole's head, just like you let her do to you.

Until.... you turn the tables..... your STBXW isn't through with you by a long shot.

Time to learn.....


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

@Chuck71 , I've been doing so good lately, not taking bait, ignoring everything. I thought yesterday that I had an opening to get the separation papers finally taken care of. That's what got me sucked in. 

I wish I would have handled it differently. But I became the mole. 

I can see now that the separation papers are not going to happen. My lawyer tells me this morning to play nice and try to squeak out as unscathed as possible, meaning according to my state, no fault, she's entitled to stuff. So, he thinks I should give in on some things just to get her to sign. But I can see now that every time I give in on something, it's going to lead to something else and this is going to drag out. One year before I can file for divorce. It's got me thinking that maybe the separation papers ain't worth it. Maybe just go dark and wait until I can file for divorce. I can't make her sign separation papers. 

It's so da%$ confusing talking to someone like her. Nothing is reasonable. I mean, we can't even work out how we want to separate. And she plainly said that she will not talk to my lawyer. 

So, I don't know. I'm at the point of saying screw it and just wait for divorce. 

Here I am off course again.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

If you give her an inch, she will take a mile. Your lawyer wants you to do his work. Have him do his job

or fire his Gdamn ass. A year until you can file.... WAFJ..... 60 days here, 90 with kids if 100% agreement.

If she won't go through your lawyer, drop it and wait for D. She wants to take everything she can.

Another attempted mindfvck.....


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ha! I have missed the lumber

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> @Chuck71 , I've been doing so good lately, not taking bait, ignoring everything. I thought yesterday that I had an opening to get the separation papers finally taken care of. That's what got me sucked in.
> 
> I wish I would have handled it differently. But I became the mole.
> 
> ...


I've never understood the year wait foolishness.

Getting an agreement sooner rather than later will be best for you. Once her Lil perfect world with the new guy implodes the deal will get much harder and worse for you. Since you've talked to a lawyer already you pretty much know potentially what your on the hook for.

She isn't serious about an agreement because she doesn't believe your done. She has your proposal, tell her to send any counters to your lawyer. She can claim she won't deal with the lawyer but it's not true. She will when your no longer an option.


----------



## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Here is what you do:

Never answer or text her again...then if nobody has suggest it yet, go read the book " No more mr. nice guy"

Your actions this whole time shout "I love you and want to keep this marriage. No matter what"

Her actions are "How can I keep manipulating him because he loves me and wants to keep this marriage."


Every time she texts you and you have the urge to respond...go get a hammer and hit the finger you use for texting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

We've now reached an agreement on the separation agreement. She will supposedly sign tomorrow and send them back on Friday. I had to give on sharing an investment, but that's not a big deal as there is no guarantee that it will ever pay out. The big deal is I will have everything that was mine prior to the marriage back in my name.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

It ain't over until the delusional "lady" sings.....

Cross your fingers.....


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pwnc said:


> We've now reached an agreement on the separation agreement. She will supposedly sign tomorrow and send them back on Friday. I had to give on sharing an investment, but that's not a big deal as there is no guarantee that it will ever pay out. The big deal is I will have everything that was mine prior to the marriage back in my name.


I sincerely hope she signs. Please let us know how it turns out.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

No word yet. Meanwhile, my life is more and more awesome and awesomer.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Did your STBXW ever go flying with you?

Sure fire way of having her sign.....

Just kidding......

ok, no I'm not


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Did your STBXW ever go flying with you?
> 
> Sure fire way of having her sign.....
> 
> ...


Haha! Funny!


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

It's been two weeks and she hasn't sent the papers back. No calls, texts or anything for a week which is great! 

Meanwhile, I've spent some time with her friends. The more I learn about the lies she was telling them the more my dislike for her is bordering on hate and disgust. Now I wish I could go back in time and kick my own [email protected]@. 

I've also been out with a girl a couple of times. It's been fun, relaxed and eye opening. She's independent, goal-driven and hard working. She has her own life and doesn't need anyone. It's helped me see just how screwed up my so called marriage was, how much of a needy user my ex was. 

My work has really taken off lately too. I've put in some really long days lately, getting a lot done and still feeling lots of energy from it.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

pwnc said:


> It's been two weeks and she hasn't sent the papers back. No calls, texts or anything for a week which is great!
> 
> *Deep down I bet you knew this would happen. Proceed forward with your life. Your concern for her should be as much as yours is for me making sure to watch American Ninja Warriors tonight.*
> 
> ...


When I broke things off with 4th love.... I asked myself "is she here to help me or hinder me"

If hinder, kick those people to the curb. Surround yourself with positive people. Negative people will 

pull you down to their schit level. Kick 'em to the curb.

Date women and try to simply take sex out of the equation for awhile. You'd be amazed at what is 

out there.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

@Chuck71

"Deep down I bet you knew this would happen. Proceed forward with your life. Your concern for her should be as much as yours is for me making sure to watch American Ninja Warriors tonight."

I have zero concern for her. As far as the papers, I'd rather get that over with now, but in the end it don't matter. I can just file for divorce next May 8th. Yeah, a part of me figured she wouldn't sign. She rarely follows through with anything. And I'm sure she'll try to pull something at some point. I don't give a rat's...

"She had to have an excuse to park her "much used" arse in the victim chair. Re-writing history 101. When her actions bring you hate, much work you have to do. Remember Luke in Empire Strikes Back, the swamp, Yoda..... "let go Luke""

Yes, I do have work to do. I've let go of everything except regret that I pissed so much away on her. Ain't nothing I can do about it now, but it does chap me that I allowed that to happen. 


"Bandaged people can do a great job disguising but the truth always comes out. I do hope you took your Mr. Fixer and KISA jeans and burned the MFs."

Burnt! I'm only taking care of me now. Working hard, playing hard, spending time with family and friends, being thankful for all I have.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> When I broke things off with 4th love.... I asked myself "is she here to help me or hinder me"
> 
> If hinder, kick those people to the curb. Surround yourself with positive people. Negative people will
> 
> ...


I allowed myself to be hindered and pulled down so long. Now that ex is out, I can see how many positive, loyal people there are out there who sincerely care for me - givers, not takers. I neglected those relationships while I had my head up ex's [email protected]@. But I'm making up for lost time. Good friends and family. Nobody demanding or needing anything. 

As far as dating, I had forgotten that there were women out there who won't suck up all your life and money until you're dry. And dang it feels good to be focused on me and not some relationship or some made up neediness.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Great and unexpected news! I have received the signed and notarized separation papers. I keep everything that I've worked so hard for. Didn't have to give anything.

In the past two weeks, I've learned about another boyfriend she had, a bus driver in her home country who she used to see when she was there staying in the house we built there. And, I have learned from some of her coworkers that she had an elaborate story about how I abused her and treated her like a slave. Although, the other boyfriend wasn't really that shocking, the slap on my reputation stung a little. Fortunately, people knew better. So, good riddance!

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying life! Yay for the papers! I really thought it was going to be a problem and a fight. All that's left is for my attorney to file them, change the deeds, and change the ownership of my consulting business. Then, done!


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

APs are usually much lower on the "sex rank." Hence the ego boost for the WS.

Be VERY thankful you never had children with her.

Many WS justify their self esteem by notches on the bed post. Ever heard a success story from that? Neither have I.

Forward and never look back. Brighter days. You avoided Bespin (Empire Strikes Back).

Learn, train, soak in Yoda's knowledge. Let the world see the best fvcking PWNC possible.....


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

pwnc said:


> Great and unexpected news! I have received the signed and notarized separation papers. I keep everything that I've worked so hard for. Didn't have to give anything.
> 
> In the past two weeks, I've learned about another boyfriend she had, a bus driver in her home country who she used to see when she was there staying in the house we built there. And, I have learned from some of her coworkers that she had an elaborate story about how I abused her and treated her like a slave. Although, the other boyfriend wasn't really that shocking, the slap on my reputation stung a little. Fortunately, people knew better. So, good riddance!
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm enjoying life! Yay for the papers! I really thought it was going to be a problem and a fight. All that's left is for my attorney to file them, change the deeds, and change the ownership of my consulting business. Then, done!


Congrats on getting the papers. Don't let the slap on the reputation bug you, it's common and the stories will likely get more outlandish as time goes on. 

Just keep putting her in the rear view mirror.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

PWNC............ how's life treatin ya these days??


----------



## WhiskeyVictor (Sep 13, 2016)

Cut her off please. She is selfish, irresponsible and not ready to be married. Someone should only have one time to walk out of your life; shock her and don't let her back in this time. She is taking advantage of you because she knows she can and go as she pleases. Close the door and let her figure out the rest for herself and find someone that genuinely loves you, when you're ready.


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> PWNC............ how's life treatin ya these days??


Hey Chuck,

Things are going great. Been working on a new life. I haven't talked to the ex in weeks. She's tried to contact me several times. Nothing left to talk about. Got the papers. Life is quiet. There have been ups and downs, regular family and work stuff, all part of life, but nothing like the [email protected]#t I was going through with the ex. 

I still get a little down every now and then about how long it took me to get my life back under my control, but I can say that my life is better now than it's been in years. Couldn't have made it without this forum - all the experience and support.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Egh... what we're here for. 

No more never would with always could


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It's so good to see that you have broken free. Great job on not responding her attempts at communication.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

How's life???


----------



## Honda750 (Feb 12, 2015)

Brother you have trouble on your hands but listen up ......... My W of 24 years and two kids , ended up on course headed for the slammer after she was found out , to be embezzling funds from her work and she ran up credit cards accounts to the hilt ........... I was ambushed by this behavior and I had no idea she was doing this for years !!! I had to face her boss and CPA and the Boss wife ......... talk about stress !!! 
I had to act quick and get her psych evaluated , which I found out she is Bi Polar type 1 , had to hire a criminal defense attorney to help me with her embezzlement case and successfully worked out a lump sum payment to satisfy the Boss and Boss wife , then I hired an attorney to get a legal separation with emphasis on financial protections for me and she willingly signed off on all of it ......... we are still separated , separate finances and still living together but it has been tough on me for sure ........... I'm telling you now , you don't have kids , don't let love blindside you on this one .......... get your act together and get out of this marriage , you don't have as much to lose as I have and believe me this has cost me a fortune to deal with it .......... Good luck and don't look in the rear view mirror


----------

