# New thread, update to ok, here is my story...



## jerry123

*Jerry123, update to ok, here is my story....*

So i lost it last night...she gets UTI once in a while after sex and has these pills she takes. So part of my investigation to see if she is cheating on me with neighbor is to keep count. Well, we have not had sex in 8 days and i counted them 3 days ago and there were 29. i count last night and there were 24. She did not mention having to take any...

So i make a huge mistake and ask her if she is cheating on me. She gets really defensive and says no. I tell her i've had this bad feeling for a while. I do not tell her who i think it is though. She of course tells me i have no proof. 
I absolutely do not reveal i have a VAR/GPS...
I know i should have waited to get proof but i just could not stop myself from asking her. I knew she would deny it, now if she is then they are going to bury it for a while.


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## Complexity

It's not the end of the world. Infact this will confirm your suspicions if they to decide to cool it off and you hear it on the VAR.


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## keko

She first denied it then said you had no proof?


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## Eli-Zor

keko said:


> She first denied it then said you had no proof?


The word "proof" tells it all
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

keko said:


> She first denied it then said you had no proof?


That is an odd thing to say. It's not what would jump to my mind if I was innocent.

When my husband was denying his affair (for a few months, I had zero proof except his huge distance, no idea who the AP could be), he never said this, even once. He just vehemently denied that there was anyone else.

I'm sorry Jerry. I wish there was a good answer. She still could be innocent even with that comment. You two have been so apart emotionally. It is very hard not to confront when your suspicions are so high. Just about everybody does it, even after getting advice to wait.

I just wish you had some insight into her thinking.


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## Gabriel

How exactly did she come off when she said "you have no proof?" Did she say, "Well, you have no proof" like so there, prove it, a*shole!

Or did she say, "I don't know why you think that, when there's nothing to prove or suggest I've cheated on you."

Big difference.


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## jerry123

keko said:


> She first denied it then said you had no proof?


Yup...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Lay low and don't mention it again. Give her a fake apology and go submarine, keep monitoring and watching.


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## keko

What if it's someone at her work and not the neighbor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien

bandit.45 said:


> Lay low and don't mention it again. Give her a fake apology and go submarine, keep monitoring and watching.


I know that context is everything, but at some point, its not about having to prove to her that she cheated. If she really takes this stance, as opposed to arguing her innocence, the marriage could be long over before the paperwork is started.


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## jerry123

keko said:


> What if it's someone at her work and not the neighbor?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was thinking about that too...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> How exactly did she come off when she said "you have no proof?" Did she say, "Well, you have no proof" like so there, prove it, a*shole!
> 
> Or did she say, "I don't know why you think that, when there's nothing to prove or suggest I've cheated on you."
> 
> Big difference.


Kept denying and got real defensive. Then she said what proof do I have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

The neighbor "might" well be a red herring. It might be someone else. Now she will be extra cautious as if now isn't enough. It will be even harder if she "is" indeed cheating and careful about it. 

Can someone educate me on why one would take UTI pills? I have no idea. Is that sex related?


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## DanF

When I first suspected my wife, I had no proof, just a bunch of red flags. She was able to plausibly deny it.
If I had known then all the stuff that I have learned on TAM, I would have busted her.
Lay low, get proof.


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## jerry123

Urinary tract inf. happens lets say my wife has not cleaned herself down there or if I did not take a shower and I was a little dirty. And during sex he UT can get an infection
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

warlock07 said:


> The neighbor "might" well be a red herring. It might be someone else. Now she will be extra cautious as if now isn't enough. It will be even harder if she "is" indeed cheating and careful about it.
> 
> Can someone educate me on why one would take UTI pills? I have no idea. Is that sex related?


She must be extra-susceptible to infection; female urethras open into the vagina.

But if she's susceptible to UTIs, it can happen other ways. I have had one at a time when my husband and I weren't sleeping together. All that has to happen is bacteria getting in--don't need sex for that. Baby girls often get them if you don't clean them properly.

-------------------------------

I also wondered if there was someone else.

Or maybe the reference to proof means something happened in the past.

We have zero insight into her thinking, still.


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## LovesHerMan

warlock07 said:


> The neighbor "might" well be a red herring. It might be someone else. Now she will be extra cautious as if now isn't enough. It will be even harder if she "is" indeed cheating and careful about it.
> 
> Can someone educate me on why one would take UTI pills? I have no idea. Is that sex related?


Everything you ever wanted to know about a urinary tract infection:

Urinary Tract Infections | UTI | Symptoms, Causes Diagnosis and Treatment from WebMD


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## bandit.45

Yeah, the UTI thing is not really conclusive.

I think you need to back waaaay off of her for a while. You do not want to act like you are going nuts or losing it. She will use that against you if you keep it up.

Stay in control and keep up with the monitoring.


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## jerry123

DanF said:


> When I first suspected my wife, I had no proof, just a bunch of red flags. She was able to plausibly deny it.
> If I had known then all the stuff that I have learned on TAM, I would have busted her.
> Lay low, get proof.


How did u end up finding out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

What if there was something back in Nov with the neighbor but she ditched him soon afterward, maybe he wasnt so good, but she switched to a new person.

Have you considered testing her pantes with a semen kit? If she's getting uti that might mean no protection being used.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> What if there was something back in Nov with the neighbor but she ditched him soon afterward, maybe he wasnt so good, but she switched to a new person.
> 
> Have you considered testing her pantes with a semen kit? If she's getting uti that might mean no protection being used.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will try that...are they only available online?

The pills threw me over the edge because i know i counted them. there are 4 missing. I was thinking she did something or was about to so she took them.


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## WhereAmI

Make sure you have that VAR in place and working. Often times they'll call their AP at the first sign the BS may be catching on. Make a mental note of the time you confronted her and compare her phone records. If she's not using another phone, you may get a clue as to who the guy is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Ping shamwow on the kit he used. They are available online for sure and there are labs that can do validation tests if you get a positive result and want to verify.

This is when you should be really tracking her, she may be spooked enough to contact the OM if there is one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60

jerry123 said:


> I will try that...are they only available online?
> 
> The pills threw me over the edge because i know i counted them. there are 4 missing. I was thinking she did something or was about to so she took them.


Are we talking Urinary Tract Infection (UTI) pills? Non prescription over the counter at any drug store?

If so these things have nothing to do with sex. My wife keeps them around all the time.

This may blow your mind but if my wife goes through a prescription of antibiotics for lets say a sinus infection, it is very likely that she will end up with a minor urinary tract disorder (don't want to say infection) because the antibiotic kills of some beneficial bacteria. Those UTI pills (little red or orange pills) help put things back to normal. I have confirmed all this with my doctor BTW.

I would be more worried about the statement that "You have no proof" than the missing pills.


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## cledus_snow

> She of course tells me i have no proof.


this is all the proof you need, to know _something_ is up.


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## TDSC60

Seems I misunderstood what you were asking in your first post.

If she is in the habit of taking these pills only after sex, then yes, missing pills are a big red flag.

Edit: Then again. Once my wife starts taking these thing, it usually take 4-5 days of 1-2 pill per day for them to have any affect. 

Does she think that taking one of these pill after sex is some sort of preventive measure - kinda like a "Morning After Pill)?


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## ArabianKnight

jerry there is no smoke without fire, a husband wont suspect his wife cheating from out nothing. 
not sure what to tell you here, you didnt do a good job investigating. 
is she a good computer person, I mean knows her way around? if she knows more than you then good luck your chances finding out are slim. 
also, she might be checking your browser history or where you been online and now she is extra careful. 
you need to keep the VAR and GPS for longest time and checking them daily or weekly, if she is cheating she will make the mistake one day and not cover it.


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## Alyosha

Don't drive yourself crazy, Jerry.

By all means, listen to your gut. That is what tipped me off. Your intuition is pretty reliable when it comes to detecting things that just aren't right. My gut told me my wife was having an affair long before I could gather the evidence to conclusively prove it.

HOWEVER, *be* *cool*. Be rational. 

If she is doing something she shouldn't be, you will have real evidence sooner rather than later. If she isn't, you are needlessly putting yourself (and your wife) through mental anguish. Not cool. Not smart.

Keep calm and carry on.


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## jerry123

TDSC60 said:


> Seems I misunderstood what you were asking in your first post.
> 
> If she is in the habit of taking these pills only after sex, then yes, missing pills are a big red flag.
> 
> Edit: Then again. Once my wife starts taking these thing, it usually take 4-5 days of 1-2 pill per day for them to have any affect.
> 
> Does she think that taking one of these pill after sex is some sort of preventive measure - kinda like a "Morning After Pill)?


they are prescip. pills. And she has in the past taken them after sex.


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> they are prescip. pills. And she has in the past taken them after sex.


Then according to your thinking -- she would have has sex 5 times in the last 3 days. Does that sound fesible to you ?? Just asking.


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## Almostrecovered

My question is does she have a legitimate reason to take the pills other than sex?


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Then according to your thinking -- she would have has sex 5 times in the last 3 days. Does that sound fesible to you ?? Just asking.


oh no, there are 4 missing. She only takes 1-2 if she thinks she may get a UTI.


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## Shaggy

So you think she's got a uti at the moment?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

If so then when do you think date wise it would have possibly happened? Within the last week? Any late nights, any days she seemed happier or crabbier?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## river rat

Re UTI: Many women get post coital cystitis. Not really related to hygiene. It is not uncommon for the primary care provider to prescribe antibiotics to take a single dose after intercourse for prophylaxis. Sometimes women are told to take one twice daily for 3days at onset of symptoms. She may have just had a little burning and treated herself. Don't infer too much from this. Lay low and continue surveillance.


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## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> If so then when do you think date wise it would have possibly happened? Within the last week? Any late nights, any days she seemed happier or crabbier?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was mostly thinking she was going to do something in the next few days. not crabby but for the last few months she seems distant.


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## the guy

I just don't get this, you have been all over here business.
Is all this correct?
*VAR=check
*GPS=check
*BB back up=check
*keylogger=check...no computor if I remember correctly


Has she been able to account for her time? Is she coming home on time? Is her pay check smaller? Weres the hidden cell?

If she's cheating, she's good, real read at covering her tracks. In the pat month its only been 2 red flags, the birthday song and now the pills, correct?

Its got be work related, a coworker.

It may be time to call in a pro and hire a PI!

The only senerio I can think of is it a coworker and they use his car at lunch time or half days.

I forgot does she take business trips?

What is missing here? Everything seems covered but yet still no proof....


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## keko

Can you put this (Pen Recording Devices | SPY Digital Voice Recorder | Pen Voice USB) in her purse? Or is your other VAR small enough to be hidden in there?


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I was mostly thinking she was going to do something in the next few days. not crabby but for the last few months she seems distant.


Do you remember a particular date or event that may have triggered this distance? Was she like this before her November trip to the store ?? Did you guys have an argument ?? Distance can be caused by many reasons -- guilt about something included. Not to say she has anything she has to feel guilty about as everything you have investigated so far comes back with nothing. Have you tried to get some alone time with just her -- go on a date -- just have fun ?? Just something totally different for the 2 of you !!


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## Gabriel

jh52 said:


> Do you remember a particular date or event that may have triggered this distance? Was she like this before her November trip to the store ?? Did you guys have an argument ?? Distance can be caused by many reasons -- guilt about something included. Not to say she has anything she has to feel guilty about as everything you have investigated so far comes back with nothing. Have you tried to get some alone time with just her -- go on a date -- just have fun ?? Just something totally different for the 2 of you !!


Yes, this surveillance has been going on for a fair amount of time. Jerry, when was the last time you took your wife out on a date? People are talking about manning up and getting a job, and that's fine, but there is something masculine about telling your wife to get dressed up a bit because you are taking her to dinner. Don't even ask. Just get a sitter and do it. She'll appreciate you taking charge in this manner.


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## keko

I was reading another site, a WW was having an affair with her supervisor for 1 1/2 years during lunch breaks.

Jerry, can you swap cars with a friend see if she goes out with another car?


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## WhoIsIt

the guy said:


> I just don't get this, you have been all over here business.
> Is all this correct?
> *VAR=check
> *GPS=check
> *BB back up=check
> *keylogger=check...no computor if I remember correctly
> 
> 
> Has she been able to account for her time? Is she coming home on time? Is her pay check smaller? Weres the hidden cell?
> 
> If she's cheating, she's good, real read at covering her tracks. In the pat month its only been 2 red flags, the birthday song and now the pills, correct?
> 
> Its got be work related, a coworker.
> 
> It may be time to call in a pro and hire a PI!
> 
> The only senerio I can think of is it a coworker and they use his car at lunch time or half days.
> 
> I forgot does she take business trips?
> 
> What is missing here? Everything seems covered but yet still no proof....


Is it possible that there is no affair so no proof to be had? Two red flags in two months with fairly heavy and fruitless monitoring. 

Yes, she's either very good at hiding her tracks (which means she knows all of Jerry's tricks), or she's not having an affair.

I think Jerry needs to step back and lay low for a while to see if something happens. Women do get UTIs for other reasons, and from my experience they can sometimes feel them coming on. If she had sex with someone, or will shortly, there's no way all this monitoring won't reveal a thing. The GPS and VAR will show her at least in a place or saying something that she shouldn't be.

If they don't, I think it might be time to relax a little.


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## Baffled01

"Can someone educate me on why one would take UTI pills? I have no idea. Is that sex related? "

My wife gets them alot too, but she doesn't take pills for it, just complains about the lower back pain and strong smelling urine. She'll take cranberry juice usually. Reading up on it I discovered
that most UTI's in younger women are caused by sex. Bacteria somehow gets pushed into the urethra, and they say hard sex or alot of sex, or multiple sex partners often causes them. So far when my wife gets them I can attribute it to sex that we have had recently, but I remember my ex-wife got one suddenly when she and her BF ramped up their affair and we hadn't had any sex for three months. Sometimes they can be an indicator that a woman is having alot of sex or has changed sex partners.


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## jerry123

Baffled01 said:


> "Can someone educate me on why one would take UTI pills? I have no idea. Is that sex related? "
> 
> My wife gets them alot too, but she doesn't take pills for it, just complains about the lower back pain and strong smelling urine. She'll take cranberry juice usually. Reading up on it I discovered
> that most UTI's in younger women are caused by sex. Bacteria somehow gets pushed into the urethra, and they say hard sex or alot of sex, or multiple sex partners often causes them. So far when my wife gets them I can attribute it to sex that we have had recently, but I remember my ex-wife got one suddenly when she and her BF ramped up their affair and we hadn't had any sex for three months. Sometimes they can be an indicator that a woman is having alot of sex or has changed sex partners.


It may be a coworker and in that case i have no way of checking.
I just talked to her again and she is so pissed i accused her. She said she will never forget it. She keeps saying she has done nothing. I'm sure it will be a rough road ahead for me now...


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## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> It may be a coworker and in that case i have no way of checking.
> I just talked to her again and she is so pissed i accused her. She said she will never forget it. She keeps saying she has done nothing. I'm sure it will be a rough road ahead for me now...


Like I said. Fake an apology, and back way off. Play it cool for a while. If in the end she's innocent you are going to look like an obsessive freak. 

You need to calm the f*ck down and start thinking.


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## iheartlife

Or, what about this. Ask her if she wants to enter marriage counseling.

You two are miles apart and you are no closer to understanding why.

The main reason most haven't brought it up is because
1. if she's in an affair it will do no good
2. if she was in an affair, it would tip her off that you were on to her.

But I don't see what the downside to that is now.


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## cabin fever

PROCEED WITH CAUTION. 

first time I accused my wife of an affair she got pissed, and defensive. Saying she did nothing, and I have never trusted her. By the end of the argument she had me feeling like an idiot for accusing. 

6 months later I proved she was definitly having an affair, and that was First hint at it. Wish I wasn't so stupid back then. Just thinking about that conversation pisses me off!


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## jh52

iheartlife said:


> Or, what about this. Ask her if she wants to enter marriage counseling.
> 
> You two are miles apart and you are no closer to understanding why.
> 
> The main reason most haven't brought it up is because
> 1. if she's in an affair it will do no good
> 2. if she was in an affair, it would tip her off that you were on to her.
> 
> But I don't see what the downside to that is now.


Here is a unique idea -- why don't you two just TALK !!


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## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> It may be a coworker and in that case i have no way of checking.
> I just talked to her again and she is so pissed i accused her. She said she will never forget it. She keeps saying she has done nothing. I'm sure it will be a rough road ahead for me now...


Jesus, she sounds exactly like my wife "I will never forget it" - God have I heard that line before. It's a total bully thing to say.

Jerry - she is either 1) legitimately appalled at such a notion, or 2) putting on a huge defense to overcompensate for what she's done.

But can you answer my previous question? EXACTLY how did she come across when she said "you have no proof?" See my other post in this thread about that. I think that makes a big difference.

And then, listen to others on here - apologize and back off, and slow your recon down, but don't stop.


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## Gabriel

Or - since the cat is out of the bag anyway, why don't you sit her down and just tell her why you are suspicious?

Don't need to talk about the VAR/GPS, etc, but you can point to what this neighbor has said, etc, all the body language you've read, and just TELL HER. Come at it as accusing the other dude, not her. Tell her you love her and these things set you off because you care.

I mean, it's really too late now to protect what you were trying to protect before. She's already totally on guard now. So why not just let it fly? The rest of it is just games.


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## keko

Gabriel said:


> Or - since the cat is out of the bag anyway, why don't you sit her down and just tell her why you are suspicious?
> 
> Don't need to talk about the VAR/GPS, etc, but you can point to what this neighbor has said, etc, all the body language you've read, and just TELL HER. Come at it as accusing the other dude, not her. Tell her you love her and these things set you off because you care.
> 
> I mean, it's really too late now to protect what you were trying to protect before. She's already totally on guard now. So why not just let it fly? The rest of it is just games.


Asking a "cheater" of his/her affair has a 101% chance of being a lie.


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Here is a unique idea -- why don't you two just TALK !!


I have tried talking to her. She talks for 10 minutes and thinks everything is fine. She told me i am going through a mid life crisis.
Told her i need us to see a therapist, she said she is willing. But keeps telling me i am going through a mid life crisis.


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## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Jesus, she sounds exactly like my wife "I will never forget it" - God have I heard that line before. It's a total bully thing to say.
> 
> Jerry - she is either 1) legitimately appalled at such a notion, or 2) putting on a huge defense to overcompensate for what she's done.
> 
> But can you answer my previous question? EXACTLY how did she come across when she said "you have no proof?" See my other post in this thread about that. I think that makes a big difference.
> 
> And then, listen to others on here - apologize and back off, and slow your recon down, but don't stop.



She keeps saying where is the proof... i know she is trying to bully me and that's why it is making me more pissed. Because now she thinks she has the upper hand.


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## jerry123

cabin fever said:


> PROCEED WITH CAUTION.
> 
> first time I accused my wife of an affair she got pissed, and defensive. Saying she did nothing, and I have never trusted her. By the end of the argument she had me feeling like an idiot for accusing.
> 
> 6 months later I proved she was definitly having an affair, and that was First hint at it. Wish I wasn't so stupid back then. Just thinking about that conversation pisses me off!


I know, i do not want to make that mistake. She is way too controlling for me to just sit back and take it. I need both of us to see a therapist.


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I know, i do not want to make that mistake. She is way too controlling for me to just sit back and take it. I need both of us to see a therapist.


Then tell her what you just said here. That you both need to see a therapist together -- and as a "loving" wife you would hope she would understand this -- so that whatever is going on with "you" can be worked out and the distance you two have can be fixed and your "journey of life together" can get back on track.


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## kenken

jerry,i had chronic UTI back when i was in high school and college,i had to drink prescription pills for that i was a virgin then,my uti stopped when i have experienced sex,weird?yeah i know but thats how i was. and as a woman my advice for you dont be overly suspicious,gather evidences first,its a major turn off for a guy acting this way,trust me been there done that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

keko said:


> Asking a "cheater" of his/her affair has a 101% chance of being a lie.


Sure, she won't admit to an affair, but her words might reveal a whole lot more than she wants them to. Or, she might actually respond well and reassure him.

I'm only suggesting this because he has found nothing at all, and it's possible Jerry has his undies in a bunch for nothing.

Purely speculating here...I think something went a little too far in her conversations with the OM. OM was interested, W enjoyed it, let it go a little beyond flirting. She loved the attention, but realized it was dangerous and cut him off (hence why he isn't around at all anymore). Add to this, the fact Jerry is a SAHD. She doesn't respect Jerry as much as most women respect their husbands as a result (the biology thing people have discussed), and this has created the distance between them. Gender roles are slowly eroding their closeness, because she has slowly lost respect for Jerry, and Jerry is becoming resentful of her power. Because of the distance, Jerry is suspicious, goes right to the guy most outwardly inappropriate first, and when he couldn't find anything, is now wondering if it's somebody at work. It eats him alive. When his methods don't work, he can't help himself and confronts her, and this exacerbates the whole problem.

So now, you tell her you are looking for work, and she has no clue why, all of a sudden, you need to do this. Of course you know, it's because you think she thinks you are less of a man, largely because of what people are saying here on TAM. But she is in the dark about this, and says you are having a mid-life crisis.

You guys need to go to counseling, like yesterday, to deal with all of this. And you need to slow down on the affair stuff for a bit. Not saying to completely let your guard down, but slow way the heck down. Deal with the gender issues, and the distance. Your W may open up in counseling. In fact, she may not even know why her feelings for you have faded.


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## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Sure, she won't admit to an affair, but her words might reveal a whole lot more than she wants them to. Or, she might actually respond well and reassure him.
> 
> I'm only suggesting this because he has found nothing at all, and it's possible Jerry has his undies in a bunch for nothing.
> 
> Purely speculating here...I think something went a little too far in her conversations with the OM. OM was interested, W enjoyed it, let it go a little beyond flirting. She loved the attention, but realized it was dangerous and cut him off (hence why he isn't around at all anymore). Add to this, the fact Jerry is a SAHD. She doesn't respect Jerry as much as most women respect their husbands as a result (the biology thing people have discussed), and this has created the distance between them. Gender roles are slowly eroding their closeness, because she has slowly lost respect for Jerry, and Jerry is becoming resentful of her power. Because of the distance, Jerry is suspicious, goes right to the guy most outwardly inappropriate first, and when he couldn't find anything, is now wondering if it's somebody at work. It eats him alive. When his methods don't work, he can't help himself and confronts her, and this exacerbates the whole problem.
> 
> So now, you tell her you are looking for work, and she has no clue why, all of a sudden, you need to do this. Of course you know, it's because you think she thinks you are less of a man, largely because of what people are saying here on TAM. But she is in the dark about this, and says you are having a mid-life crisis.
> 
> You guys need to go to counseling, like yesterday, to deal with all of this. And you need to slow down on the affair stuff for a bit. Not saying to completely let your guard down, but slow way the heck down. Deal with the gender issues, and the distance. Your W may open up in counseling. In fact, she may not even know why her feelings for you have faded.


I agree...


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## Shaggy

Get in counseling but continue to watch and monitor.

Tell her that it's the neighbor acting really funny around you that has set you wondering, tell her about comments he has made which alluded to him wanting to hookup with her,followed by him being standoffish and weird around you.

Then sit back and say that the horrible communications the two of have been having have left you feeling she was pushing you away, and you are trying to figure out what can be happening here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> Get in counseling but continue to watch and monitor.
> 
> Tell her that it's the neighbor acting really funny around you that has set you wondering, tell her about comments he has made which alluded to him wanting to hookup with her,followed by him being standoffish and weird around you.
> 
> Then sit back and say that the horrible communications the two of have been having have left you feeling she was pushing you away, and you are trying to figure out what can be happening here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ok, will do.


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## keko

Shaggy said:


> Get in counseling but continue to watch and monitor.
> 
> Tell her that it's the neighbor acting really funny around you that has set you wondering, tell her about comments he has made which alluded to him wanting to hookup with her,followed by him being standoffish and weird around you.
> 
> Then sit back and say that the horrible communications the two of have been having have left you feeling she was pushing you away, and you are trying to figure out what can be happening here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im not sure about this, should he really name one person, or just her being cold?


----------



## Shaggy

The best strategy here is to tell the truth since he won't be caught later in a lie that way. But he must not tell her about the checking up he's doing in case it's true.

This gives him the chance to throw it out there and see the reaction, it also might trigger her contacting him and getting it on the var.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

He can also observe the neighbor afterward and see if he acts different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Keko, I think he should not only name the person, but recite all the examples he detailed on this forum. These examples will validate his concerns and his wife will be more receptive to that than him just saying, "you're being cold". I think Shaggy's advice is spot on.

I mean, this all started because of the neighbor's behavior (and hers). So call a duck a duck and let her explain these situations.


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## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Keko, I think he should not only name the person, but recite all the examples he detailed on this forum. These examples will validate his concerns and his wife will be more receptive to that than him just saying, "you're being cold". I think Shaggy's advice is spot on.
> 
> I mean, this all started because of the neighbor's behavior (and hers). So call a duck a duck and let her explain these situations.


I was tempted not to reveal his name to her but i think bringing it all out will justify my suspicions.
She wants me to tell her why i am accusing her. Thing is, it will be weird if he happens to come by and we are on our deck or playing outside with kid. I'm sure she will notice me trying to notice her reaction if he says hello.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I was tempted not to reveal his name to her but i think bringing it all out will justify my suspicions.
> She wants me to tell her why i am accusing her. Thing is, it will be weird if he happens to come by and we are on our deck or playing outside with kid. I'm sure she will notice me trying to notice her reaction if he says hello.


I would suggest telling her when the kid is in bed and you are both alone. If he were to show up then for whatever reason....that would be very suspicious since he has not been over and spoke to you in awhile per your posts.


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## Gabriel

So you agreed with my longer post, but disagree now?

It's your life, but I'm with Shaggy - I think you need to tell her exactly why you were being suspicious because the cat's out of the bag anyway, and you've riled her up. You can't dance around this now. The only thing that will justify your suspicions is to tell her EXACTLY what it was making you suspcious. Did you change your mind now?

Excuse me, but F*CK being weird. Who cares if it's weird. Sh*t, don't you think it's "weird" already? Isn't it weird if he was messing around with your wife? Come on, man, stop making excuses.


----------



## Shaggy

It's already weird with him, but at least if you tell her it's you and her against him, where as right now you are worried that it's him and her against you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

I'm in agreement with Shaggy and Gabriel. Tell her about the neighbor and tell her about her behavior lately. Let her know you see the two of you drifting apart and want to go to counseling to make sure your marriage stays on solid ground. If she disagrees with you ask her if she want to stay married.

And for God's sake stop calling her controlling. Nobody can control anyone else. If she is controlling its because you are letting her.


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## Almostrecovered

Be specific like how she's like a hawk with her phone and it's password protected


----------



## jerry123

Beowulf said:


> I'm in agreement with Shaggy and Gabriel. Tell her about the neighbor and tell her about her behavior lately. Let her know you see the two of you drifting apart and want to go to counseling to make sure your marriage stays on solid ground. If she disagrees with you ask her if she want to stay married.
> 
> And for God's sake stop calling her controlling. Nobody can control anyone else. If she is controlling its because you are letting her.


I know, that will stop right away. Even with her pissed now i will justify why i feel this way.


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## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> So you agreed with my longer post, but disagree now?
> 
> It's your life, but I'm with Shaggy - I think you need to tell her exactly why you were being suspicious because the cat's out of the bag anyway, and you've riled her up. You can't dance around this now. The only thing that will justify your suspicions is to tell her EXACTLY what it was making you suspcious. Did you change your mind now?
> 
> Excuse me, but F*CK being weird. Who cares if it's weird. Sh*t, don't you think it's "weird" already? Isn't it weird if he was messing around with your wife? Come on, man, stop making excuses.


no i agree, just want this feeling like this to end. We do have our issues, and being a SAHD and her thinking she has more control in the marriage just sickens me. It's been going on for years and i know realize it's me letting it keep happening.


----------



## Shaggy

Almostrecovered said:


> Be specific like how she's like a hawk with her phone and it's password protected


Ths is a very fine idea. Put it all out there while you've got this opportunity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

But don't reveal anything that comes from spying like the var and her singing the birthday song or else she will turn the tables really fast and make it about invading privacy


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## snap

Yes, ask her about the phone. It has to be good explanation. If she cites privacy (which she most certainly will), ask her to elaborate what kind of information is so sensitive as to keep it from her faithful husband of N years.


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## Halien

I posted this in you other thread, but I think you have to put an end to the neighbor's sexual innuendo and comments about how your wife looks. Some people do this innocently, but your description of this guy makes him sound like he has a purpose in this. You can stop this without it being over the top confrontational.


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## keko

Some companies require their phones to be password protected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

keko said:


> Some companies require their phones to be password protected.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's my husband's situation. Of course, he found it very convenient.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

snap said:


> Yes, ask her about the phone. It has to be good explanation. If she cites privacy (which she most certainly will), ask her to elaborate what kind of information is so sensitive as to keep it from her faithful husband of N years.


If this is a issued company phone -- having a password to protect emails and other company data is not unusal. The first thing I had to do when I got my company phone was to create a password.

You stated that you got the password from your son -- I assume to play games -- so she didn't hide the password from everyone. Did you ever ask her for the password and she refused ? Just wondering again. Hope the conversation is productive for you both.


----------



## TDSC60

jerry123 said:


> they are prescip. pills. And she has in the past taken them after sex.


Sneak a peek at the name of the drug on the bottle. I am not a doctor but it seems weird to have a prescription that says "Take after sex" unless it actually IS the "Morning After Pill". Usually the dosage and time are on there too. 

Do you guys use birth control?

Let us know what the drug name is.


----------



## Gabriel

Thinking through the reaction to Jerry's accusal more....
My wife has asked me on several occasions during our marriage if I was being faithful. The following is a blend of my reactions to that and what I feel is natural;

1) you asked her once

a) innocent - reaction is of disappointment (maybe even mild anger) in lack of trust, then reassurance, then letting it go if question not repeated

b) guilty with no proof - vehement denial, pissed that despite perfectly covering tracks, he still suspects. Turns to anger. Will not let it go until he backs down, so she feels safe again.

c) guilty with proof - fear, numbness, and/or excuses and blameshifting

2) you ask her repeatedly

a) innocent - increased irritability, questions, suspicions about the asker's fidelity

b) guilty with no proof - complete and total rage, threats of separation or divorce

c) guilty with proof - avoidance, "needs space" to escape blame


If this is remotely accurate, it sounds like she is between 1a and 1b. If she refuses to let it go, even if you drop it, I would see a red flag there.


----------



## lovelygirl

jerry123 said:


> It may be a coworker and in that case i have no way of checking.
> I just talked to her again and she is so pissed i accused her. She said she will never forget it. She keeps saying she has done nothing. I'm sure it will be a rough road ahead for me now...


The fact that she got mad and is pissed means something is up.
This can be considered as a half-proof.


----------



## lovelygirl

jerry123 said:


> She keeps saying where is the proof... i know she is trying to bully me and that's why it is making me more pissed. Because now she thinks she has the upper hand.


She's provoking you because she thinks she was so good at hiding it that there's no way for you to find it.
Sounds like she's overly-secure about her manipulative ways.


----------



## Gabriel

Jerry, how did it go last night? You guys doing okay?


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Jerry, how did it go last night? You guys doing okay?


Talk went well, both of us were calm. She sat through my whole explanation of why I suspect her. Just one thing I noticed is we were sitting on our bed talking and before I started she pulled some covers over her lap and put her hands on her lap with covers over them. That worried me a bit. Since I was hoping to see if she tugged on her ear or moved her hands to her face. I just think she may have prepared herself so she would not do that with her hands. 
She said she had not done anything with him or ever been with him. All the red flags that I mentioned she did not try and come up with excuses. She just sat there calmly and listened. I will be making calls to a MC today. I am still using VAR/gps. 
Thanks for all the help everyone...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

That is about as good as you can hope for. Don't read too much into the hands thing. That's a real stretch. She was probably just nervous.

She didn't make excuses, so that is good. Calm is good. Now you have to check activity to see if she contacts him in any way after this talk. If she is guilty with this guy, she will do this for sure.


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## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> That is about as good as you can hope for. Don't read too much into the hands thing. That's a real stretch. She was probably just nervous.
> 
> She didn't make excuses, so that is good. Calm is good. Now you have to check activity to see if she contacts him in any way after this talk. If she is guilty with this guy, she will do this for sure.


yup, i had it all charged up this morning and ready to go. Should i do individual counc. first or both of us the first time. In your opinion?


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## Tasorundo

Jerry, I have followed your thread from the beginning. First, I want you to know that I am a WH that had a ONS and came here for help to repair my marriage. My wife has never been unfaithful, however there was a time where I thought she might have been.

I was consumed with it, everything I saw, I viewed it through a lense of her potential infidelity. In hindsight, there was nothing she could have done or said that would not have supported my arguments further. I was around people at work that were unfaithful, that lived lives where it was just an acceptable thing. I would think about it all day, leave work early randomly, check up on her, etc. In reality she had done nothing to merit my investigation. Sure, we had issues, but there was nothing to indicate where my mind went. Until I built up a case of wild speculation and circumstantial evidence.

I say this, because I worry about you. In reading your posts, it reads a lot like how I felt then. Everything she does is proof. If she moves her hands, or doesn't move her hands for example. Did she get the blanket because she was nervous, or was it because she is has been reading how to lie and knew it would help? There was no way she could do the right thing. What if her ear actually itched during the talk? Would you have blown up and accused her of lieing?

I feel like you are not giving equal consideration to the possibility that nothing has or did ever happen. I hope that you are.

As far as counseling goes, in my experience, you will see them together and separately. I like having the same person for both, because they know the issues, hear both sides, and can use that to help rebuild your marriage.


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> yup, i had it all charged up this morning and ready to go. Should i do individual counc. first or both of us the first time. In your opinion?


Together - definitely.


----------



## Baffled01

Tasorundo said:


> I was consumed with it, everything I saw, I viewed it through a lense of her potential infidelity. In hindsight, there was nothing she could have done or said that would not have supported my arguments further. I was around people at work that were unfaithful, that lived lives where it was just an acceptable thing. I would think about it all day, leave work early randomly, check up on her, etc. In reality she had done nothing to merit my investigation. Sure, we had issues, but there was nothing to indicate where my mind went. Until I built up a case of wild speculation and circumstantial evidence.


Very good point because it's easy to get carried away with this stuff, especially if you spend alot of time in this forum. I find myself engaging in some 'wild speculation' about my marriage just reading some of the posts here. You really have try to draw line between facts and speculation especially when it comes to human behavior and body movements.


----------



## river rat

jerry123 said:


> yup, i had it all charged up this morning and ready to go. Should i do individual counc. first or both of us the first time. In your opinion?


I agree that you should go together the first time, but don't discount the need for IC, also. You've been dealing w/ a lot of stuff, and all that can be overwhelming.


----------



## jerry123

Tasorundo said:


> Jerry, I have followed your thread from the beginning. First, I want you to know that I am a WH that had a ONS and came here for help to repair my marriage. My wife has never been unfaithful, however there was a time where I thought she might have been.
> 
> I was consumed with it, everything I saw, I viewed it through a lense of her potential infidelity. In hindsight, there was nothing she could have done or said that would not have supported my arguments further. I was around people at work that were unfaithful, that lived lives where it was just an acceptable thing. I would think about it all day, leave work early randomly, check up on her, etc. In reality she had done nothing to merit my investigation. Sure, we had issues, but there was nothing to indicate where my mind went. Until I built up a case of wild speculation and circumstantial evidence.
> 
> I say this, because I worry about you. In reading your posts, it reads a lot like how I felt then. Everything she does is proof. If she moves her hands, or doesn't move her hands for example. Did she get the blanket because she was nervous, or was it because she is has been reading how to lie and knew it would help? There was no way she could do the right thing. What if her ear actually itched during the talk? Would you have blown up and accused her of lieing?
> 
> I feel like you are not giving equal consideration to the possibility that nothing has or did ever happen. I hope that you are.
> 
> As far as counseling goes, in my experience, you will see them together and separately. I like having the same person for both, because they know the issues, hear both sides, and can use that to help rebuild your marriage.



Thanks, yes i understand your point. Just the red flags were a few too much for me.
BTW, does you wife know about your ONS?


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## Tasorundo

Yes she does. My thread is on here, but it didn't have many posts in it. Mostly just me, talking through my feelings and start of R.


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## jerry123

Tasorundo said:


> Yes she does. My thread is on here, but it didn't have many posts in it. Mostly just me, talking through my feelings and start of R.


ok, just read through it...sorry to hear that.

BTW, i am now worried a bit about how our sex life will be after i accused her with no proof. It was a so-so sex life before. I believe once a week and on rare occasions twice. Even in last year it was 2-3 a month. I am reading Married mans guide to sex life now.
I truly believe it was because she though she was the dominating one. I have to change that. I was looking at want ads this morning in front of her. She stills says i should stay home but that is her trying to keep me from being more dominant than herself. I think i have a long road ahead to change that but i need to. Not to say i want sex 4 times a week. But to change years of her thinking will take time. I plan on not initiating for a while and see what happens.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Talk went well, both of us were calm. She sat through my whole explanation of why I suspect her. Just one thing I noticed is we were sitting on our bed talking and before I started she pulled some covers over her lap and put her hands on her lap with covers over them. That worried me a bit. Since I was hoping to see if she tugged on her ear or moved her hands to her face. I just think she may have prepared herself so she would not do that with her hands.
> She said she had not done anything with him or ever been with him. All the red flags that I mentioned she did not try and come up with excuses. She just sat there calmly and listened. I will be making calls to a MC today. I am still using VAR/gps.
> Thanks for all the help everyone...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad it went well and that you are both going to IC and MC together. Just some things to think about -- and maybe discuss this with her. You said she puts you down at home and in public -- tell her you are going to call her out when she does this. The 2nd thing is that you said you guys are going to a party where the neighbor will be there -- no doubt flirting with you wife since he has done this before -- tell her if you see this of hear any of his "sex: talk you are going to tell him off -- not in a confrontational physical manner -- but in a way to stay away from my wife !!! Just my 2 cents....good luck.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> ok, just read through it...sorry to hear that.
> 
> BTW, i am now worried a bit about how our sex life will be after i accused her with no proof. It was a so-so sex life before. I believe once a week and on rare occasions twice. Even in last year it was 2-3 a month. I am reading Married mans guide to sex life now.
> I truly believe it was because she though she was the dominating one. I have to change that. I was looking at want ads this morning in front of her. She stills says i should stay home but that is her trying to keep me from being more dominant than herself. I think i have a long road ahead to change that but i need to. Not to say i want sex 4 times a week. But to change years of her thinking will take time. I plan on not initiating for a while and see what happens.


I would balance Athol (which we have a copy of too) with 5 Love Languages, His Needs / Her Needs, and Love Busters. Start with just 5 Love Languages, you can skim it in an hour. Get her to take the questionnaire. You will have a better understanding of how she perceives love to be expressed from you right away. And she can gain insight into how to show you love, too--win-win.

Show her, teach her, that sex is how you express your deepest love for her (see His Needs / Her Needs). Most women in the U.S. do not know this.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> ok, just read through it...sorry to hear that.
> 
> BTW, i am now worried a bit about how our sex life will be after i accused her with no proof. It was a so-so sex life before. I believe once a week and on rare occasions twice. Even in last year it was 2-3 a month. I am reading Married mans guide to sex life now.
> I truly believe it was because she though she was the dominating one. I have to change that. I was looking at want ads this morning in front of her. She stills says i should stay home but that is her trying to keep me from being more dominant than herself. I think i have a long road ahead to change that but i need to. Not to say i want sex 4 times a week. But to change years of her thinking will take time. I plan on not initiating for a while and see what happens.


Jerry -- if I may be so bold to say -- you two have alot more to work on and fix then worry about then your sex life. Fixing you -- and her fixing her -- will make each one of you better -- then and only then can you fix each other -- which means you two will be able to express you feelings and be more intimate -- which means you two should hopefully connect more in the bed room (or where ever) !!


----------



## Machiavelli

jerry123 said:


> Not to say i want sex 4 times a week.


In that case, contact your doctor and have him run a full T panel on you. what kind of shape are you in?


----------



## jerry123

Machiavelli said:


> In that case, contact your doctor and have him run a full T panel on you. what kind of shape are you in?


I am in great shape now, lost 20 pounds. Weigh 176 and have been lifting weights for 5 months. She does see the change and has told me I look great. But rarely asks for sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> I am in great shape now, lost 20 pounds. Weigh 176 and have been lifting weights for 5 months. She does see the change and has told me I look great. But rarely asks for sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not being physically fit can be a turn off. But being physically fit isn't the only component to being turned on. 

The reason I'm pushing 5 Love Languages is that it is so darn easy. I've said this to you before, I discovered my husband's love languages are words of affirmation and acts of service. Mine are physical touch and quality time.

Just email her the quiz and get it over with.
Love Language Quiz | The 5 Love Languages®


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> Not being physically fit can be a turn off. But being physically fit isn't the only component to being turned on.
> 
> The reason I'm pushing 5 Love Languages is that it is so darn easy. I've said this to you before, I discovered my husband's love languages are words of affirmation and acts of service. Mine are physical touch and quality time.
> 
> Just email her the quiz and get it over with.
> Love Language Quiz | The 5 Love Languages®


ok, i plan on implementing the MMSL tips in the next few weeks. In the mean time i will read that book. I got the message to her about not putting up with her actions around people. And she agreed for me to stop her if i feel any certain way that bothers me.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry -- if I may be so bold to say -- you two have alot more to work on and fix then worry about then your sex life. Fixing you -- and her fixing her -- will make each one of you better -- then and only then can you fix each other -- which means you two will be able to express you feelings and be more intimate -- which means you two should hopefully connect more in the bed room (or where ever) !!


I know...thanks.


----------



## Tasorundo

Jerry, as far as your sex life goes. By working through this stuff together, being open and honest with each other, and seeking outside help, I think it would improve. While my wife and I have not had any sex where bodily fluids are exchanged, what we do have now is better than anything we had before.

There is a deeper connection. We are vunerable with each other and have had a lot of conversations about how we got here. It was really eye opening to have those conversations without holding back.


----------



## lovelygirl

jerry123 said:


> BTW, i am now worried a bit about how our sex life will be after i accused her with no proof. It was a so-so sex life before. I believe once a week and on rare occasions twice. Even in last year it was 2-3 a month..


Who of you used to initiate sex more often? 
If it was you, did she reject you?

At least be dominant in bed if you're not being dominant at home.


----------



## jerry123

lovelygirl said:


> Who of you used to initiate sex more often?
> If it was you, did she reject you?
> 
> At least be dominant in bed if you're not being dominant at home.


I would 75% of time...never rejected. I have been dominant in bed. The last 4-5 times i was being very dominant, but at times i like to use toys on her and she has enjoyed it. But has not asked to use the toys and a few times i said i would get them for her but she said no.
The thing i like is when she would just wake me up if she was still awake at like 11PM. Or if she would lay with me and start rubbing me. That has not happened in 3 months.
But i do agree that a MC will help us communicate more then i can show her i like those things and maybe she will pick up on that. among other things...


----------



## iheartlife

Wow. If she never rejects you, you are waaaay ahead of the game.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry, I know you said she never go on the computer at home, but, she may have set it up to log on remotely, when she started back in Nov. to see if you was suspicious. And she may be still monitoring from her office now. That may be why she was signing the birthday song, knowing about the VAR. just to mind f**k you. That may be why she said you had no proof. And hiding her hands, knowing you would be looking for signs. Can you tell if she log on remotely ?? You said she knows the trouble she would be in if found out, so as smart as she thinks she is, she would not even start something without making sure she could keep watch and be able end run your suspicion. I really am starting to think she is monitoring somehow. Like you said, she thinks she wears the pants and is so smart. So her ego would really get a kick out of this.


----------



## Mario Kempes

OldWolf57 said:


> Jerry, I know you said she never go on the computer at home, but, she may have set it up to log on remotely, when she started back in Nov. to see if you was suspicious. And she may be still monitoring from her office now. That may be why she was signing the birthday song, knowing about the VAR. just to mind f**k you. That may be why she said you had no proof. And hiding her hands, knowing you would be looking for signs. Can you tell if she log on remotely ?? You said she knows the trouble she would be in if found out, so as smart as she thinks she is, she would not even start something without making sure she could keep watch and be able end run your suspicion. I really am starting to think she is monitoring somehow. Like you said, she thinks she wears the pants and is so smart. So her ego would really get a kick out of this.


I agree with what Oldwolf said. I meant to post something similar earlier.


----------



## Tasorundo

Occam's Razor.

While it is possible she is really a master counter-spy setting you up and teasing you with her every choice and movement, it is incredibly unlikely. Would she be so devious and heartless to tease you with vague clues with potential implications? All the while laughing and thinking of the misery she is causing you?

If any of that has the potential to be true, then there is a lot more here to worry about than if she had sex with your neighbor.


----------



## OldWolf57

we've learned on here that many WW get off having one up on the OP, read some threads. She said she must not have as much empathy as most ppl. She may not see it as doing long term harm, then again, WW in fog do really strange things for self grats. What wife puts down her husband in front of other ppl, if it wasn't for ego ?? And she don't have to be a master counter spy. But she is someone who does big $$ deals. So she is a master thinker on her feet, and is always looking for the advantage for counters moves.


----------



## jerry123

OldWolf57 said:


> Jerry, I know you said she never go on the computer at home, but, she may have set it up to log on remotely, when she started back in Nov. to see if you was suspicious. And she may be still monitoring from her office now. That may be why she was signing the birthday song, knowing about the VAR. just to mind f**k you. That may be why she said you had no proof. And hiding her hands, knowing you would be looking for signs. Can you tell if she log on remotely ?? You said she knows the trouble she would be in if found out, so as smart as she thinks she is, she would not even start something without making sure she could keep watch and be able end run your suspicion. I really am starting to think she is monitoring somehow. Like you said, she thinks she wears the pants and is so smart. So her ego would really get a kick out of this.


She is not computer smart...plus if she is using a key logger i heard you can check by hitting Control/alt/delete and checking for (2) winlogin.exe running. There should only be 1.
Also, can't i check with my remote login on computer to see if someone is on?


----------



## Gabriel

Mario Kempes said:


> I agree with what Oldwolf said. I meant to post something similar earlier.


Nah, I don't believe any of that in this case.

His wife has slowly lost respect for Jerry due to the gender roles they play. She says she wants him at home, because it is the least path of resistance, but little does she know, him going to work is going to be good for their marriage, and her feelings toward him.

I kind of relate to her, in a way. He hasn't done anything new to wow her, so she feels more and more ambivalent to him. Other things may excite her a little, like this neighbor. But I think it was just a little excitement, and not a real affair. Now Jerry is taking action, and his wife is watching him in wonderment, not really knowing what to make of it.


----------



## OldWolf57

Gab, you could be right. I'm just not a trusting person. But Jerry, how can she do her job, not being computer lit. ?? What Biz don't require their main ppl to know how to handle them ?? What kind of job does she have, that can pay so much that you can stay home, but don't have to know how to navigate power point, and word ??


----------



## jerry123

OldWolf57 said:


> Gab, you could be right. I'm just not a trusting person. But Jerry, how can she do her job, not being computer lit. ?? What Biz don't require their main ppl to know how to handle them ?? What kind of job does she have, that can pay so much that you can stay home, but don't have to know how to navigate power point, and word ??


Without telling too much, she is a VP in one of the dept. of an well known insurance company. She makes over $220,000 a year. Her job basically has nothing to do with computers. More like getting high skilled geeks to work at company for the risk mgt. of said ins. company so they can better gauge risk for customers.

Funny thing is, after telling her i will be looking for job she keeps saying i should stay home. I tell her this morning i need a change and i can't deal with just talking to a 5 year old all day. I told her i need to get out talk to adults at a job. I can already tell this is breaking down her dominating ways. 

+1 for me so far!!!

Also, i show her on monster.com how my pay scale has gone up 35% since i quit to be SAHD. I secretly show her how excited i am to hear that. Lets' se how this weekend will go. She is close to her period (not till tuesday) but the book MMSG says she still may be horny but during her period you need to scale back because it's a low point of month for her. So, i will not be to dominating but still won't take any crap. That book may just be the help i need other than a MC.


----------



## Gabriel

Jerry, is she an actuary by chance?


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Nah, I don't believe any of that in this case.
> 
> His wife has slowly lost respect for Jerry due to the gender roles they play. She says she wants him at home, because it is the least path of resistance, but little does she know, him going to work is going to be good for their marriage, and her feelings toward him.
> 
> I kind of relate to her, in a way. He hasn't done anything new to wow her, so she feels more and more ambivalent to him. Other things may excite her a little, like this neighbor. But I think it was just a little excitement, and not a real affair. Now Jerry is taking action, and his wife is watching him in wonderment, not really knowing what to make of it.


Yes, she never expected me to tell her i am getting a job. On top of me working out and looking very good (IMHO). Caught her rubbing my muscles this morning. Not to have sex but little things like that can tell me a lot.
Also, she has turned a 180 degrees on being mad/angry about me accusing her but that could mean she is seeing a change in me or she pulled wool over my eyes about my accusation and sees i probably believes her and is just acting. But only time will tell.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Jerry, is she an actuary by chance?


She is not, she just tries and hires them for her company.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Yes, she never expected me to tell her i am getting a job. On top of me working out and looking very good (IMHO). Caught her rubbing my muscles this morning. Not to have sex but little things like that can tell me a lot.
> Also, she has turned a 180 degrees on being mad/angry about me accusing her but that could mean she is seeing a change in me or she pulled wool over my eyes about my accusation and sees i probably believes her and is just acting. But only time will tell.


Jerry -- have a nice weekend. One poster said earlier to stop the obsession -- just like this post "she pulled wool over my eyes about my accusation and sees i probably believes her and is just acting". Focus on the positives and the "new" you and her. I don't know if she is lying to you -- but there is no definite proof except the games your mind is playing on you. I hope that you can trust her 100% again with help and better communication with each other -- and that she has and will remain committed to you, your marriage and your family.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry -- have a nice weekend. One poster said earlier to stop the obsession -- just like this post "she pulled wool over my eyes about my accusation and sees i probably believes her and is just acting". Focus on the positives and the "new" you and her. I don't know if she is lying to you -- but there is no definite proof except the games your mind is playing on you. I hope that you can trust her 100% again with help and better communication with each other -- and that she has and will remain committed to you, your marriage and your family.


I know...just trying to throw a joke or 2 but i feel better already. Have a nice weekend also. 

BTW, i already plan on getting no sex this weekend and won't care. That way if i do get sex, great, if i don't then nothing is lost. My objective is to keep up with job search and let her know there will be changes in this marriage and say it with force and meaning. Then during her "high/horny" time in a few weeks i will implement Alpha on her...thanks to the great book "the married mans sex guide".


----------



## lordmayhem

My guess is that she's an *experienced cheater*. And you don't to be experienced without having a lot of practice at it. She probably goes to those cheater sites too and gets advice on how to cheat without getting caught.


----------



## keko

Jerry, is she going out for her lunch? Same place or different place's?


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Jerry, is she going out for her lunch? Same place or different place's?


don't know, she eats in her office or does meeting lunch. Could be she has someone at work but if she gets caught she knows she can lose her high paying job and be an outcast. plus she knows a lot of human resource policy since she did it years ago for a long time.


----------



## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> My guess is that she's an *experienced cheater*. And you don't to be experienced without having a lot of practice at it. She probably goes to those cheater sites too and gets advice on how to cheat without getting caught.


could be, but if it's ongoing now i truly believe she will slip up. And i told her this is your one chance to come clean...no 2nd chances with me.
I have VAR/GPS to my advantage since she does not know about them.


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry, I hope she was only flirting with the idea back then. But, when was the last time you went to her office ?? Most resumes are submitted on line, or mailed in before interviews are set. If so, she is more pc lit then you think. Not trying to spoil the wknd. have a good one dude, you deserve a break. Especially since she seem to see that you are still the man she married. Back when A**hole, was making sexual comment, she probably started feeling she was only a paycheck, otherwise why didn't you check the dude then.


----------



## jerry123

OldWolf57 said:


> Jerry, I hope she was only flirting with the idea back then. But, when was the last time you went to her office ?? Most resumes are submitted on line, or mailed in before interviews are set. If so, she is more pc lit then you think. Not trying to spoil the wknd. have a good one dude, you deserve a break. Especially since she seem to see that you are still the man she married. Back when A**hole, was making sexual comment, she probably started feeling she was only a paycheck, otherwise why didn't you check the dude then.


Oh, she knows emails and basic stuff. But i doubt she is checking with remote. 
No, i don't go to her office since it is 35-40 minutes away. But i guess i can say some time soon i will drop by and meet her for lunch.
Oh BTW, when i told her about the neighbors sex talk i said i know what he is doing. In the beginning, when he would start sex talk he waits for reaction. With my wife he got it with a laugh or a reply. Which she did. And i also said he did it every time she was around. I told her if he gets a bad reaction from a woman he stops. Yes, he is a player who thinks he is 18 again. I told her if i hear this sex talk again i expect you to react the correct way. If you don't i will!!!


----------



## Shaggy

Also spyware isn't rocket science anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> don't know, she eats in her office or does meeting lunch. Could be she has someone at work but if she gets caught she knows she can lose her high paying job and be an outcast. plus she knows a lot of human resource policy since she did it years ago for a long time.


Not saying she is one but cheaters do take big risk's in their affair's. It might be worth to look where she is during lunch break. Or if she leaves with someone else.


----------



## Almostrecovered

altho more common in men, she could be a "part time" cheater (for lack of a better word). Whereas she views it as just sex and will occasionally get her rocks off outside the marriage, much like some men on business trips or who use hookers a few times a year.


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> altho more common in men, she could be a "part time" cheater (for lack of a better word). Whereas she views it as just sex and will occasionally get her rocks off outside the marriage, much like some men on business trips or who use hookers a few times a year.


yeah, if this is the case then my job of trying to find out is harder. But i have password to her phone and little by little checking her sent/deleted/current emails and texts.


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> She is not, she just tries and hires them for her company.


Ah, ok, recruiter. She must do it well to make that cash. Next time I am looking for a job, maybe I should call her.


----------



## Gabriel

lordmayhem said:


> My guess is that she's an *experienced cheater*. And you don't to be experienced without having a lot of practice at it. She probably goes to those cheater sites too and gets advice on how to cheat without getting caught.


Really Mayhem? This post is a real surprise coming from you.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Oh, she knows emails and basic stuff. But i doubt she is checking with remote.
> No, i don't go to her office since it is 35-40 minutes away. But i guess i can say some time soon i will drop by and meet her for lunch.
> Oh BTW, when i told her about the neighbors sex talk i said i know what he is doing. In the beginning, when he would start sex talk he waits for reaction. With my wife he got it with a laugh or a reply. Which she did. And i also said he did it every time she was around. I told her if he gets a bad reaction from a woman he stops. Yes, he is a player who thinks he is 18 again. I told her if i hear this sex talk again i expect you to react the correct way. If you don't i will!!!


Nice job Jerry -- show her you care and the "new" you. She probably likes the "new" you (touching muscles) -- but will be watching -- not just by your words -- but by your actions.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Ah, ok, recruiter. She must do it well to make that cash. Next time I am looking for a job, maybe I should call her.


sure, just don't talk sex talk with her...LOL


----------



## lordmayhem

Gabriel said:


> Really Mayhem? This post is a real surprise coming from you.


Just speculating is all. 

This one seems to be a little slippery.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Nice job Jerry -- show her you care and the "new" you. She probably likes the "new" you (touching muscles) -- but will be watching -- not just by your words -- but by your actions.


yes...it sucks i have to be this way since i want to be the nice caring guy. but the expression "nice guys finish last" is a well known quote for a reason.


----------



## OldWolf57

Can someone answer Jerry ?? on him being able to see if she logon remotely. I know we have a network for our router. Jerry when I go my document, on the left side there is a list, like my computer, my network places, desktop. When I click my network places, it also show a list of network clicks. One is view network connections, another is show icons for networked UPnp devices. Maybe you can check there to see if she setup a remote link.


----------



## Gabriel

OldWolf57 said:


> Can someone answer Jerry ?? on him being able to see if she logon remotely. I know we have a network for our router. Jerry when I go my document, on the left side there is a list, like my computer, my network places, desktop. When I click my network places, it also show a list of network clicks. One is view network connections, another is show icons for networked UPnp devices. Maybe you can check there to see if she setup a remote link.


Frankly, I think he is fine doing the GPS/VAR thing and taking it down a notch. Work on YOU Jerry, while doing your low-key monitoring. Hypervigilance hasn't been turning anything up. 

The next 1-2 days are critical if she is cheating. She will update the OM on your conversation if she is. If she's totally free and clear for the next few days, you are probably in good shape, IMHO.


----------



## jerry123

OldWolf57 said:


> Can someone answer Jerry ?? on him being able to see if she logon remotely. I know we have a network for our router. Jerry when I go my document, on the left side there is a list, like my computer, my network places, desktop. When I click my network places, it also show a list of network clicks. One is view network connections, another is show icons for networked UPnp devices. Maybe you can check there to see if she setup a remote link.


I just hit show UPnp devises icon...but it started doing something like wait while it processes and said it was done but nothing came up. Now if i hit hide UPnp devise icons it gives me a warning.


----------



## lordmayhem

There is one area that the vast majority of us cannot cover, me included, is the WS work email and work phone. Most cheater websites recommend that all contact be thru these two avenues. The reason that the WS slip up is that they need more contact besides the work email and work phone and will eventually slip up by using a method that you can detect. The fog dictates that the APs need a lot of contact. So eventually she will slip up.


----------



## Halien

jerry123 said:


> Oh, she knows emails and basic stuff. But i doubt she is checking with remote.


At her income level, the last thing her company would want is for her to be spending the time to learn how to set up complex communication tools, but I wouldn't necessarily assume that she doesn't have them these days. At her pay level, the last thing her company would want is for her to spend much time trying to figure out the communication tools that they give her. Times are changing. Smartphones, laptops, card devices for mobile IP phone access, and ipads are all common. Since I work in procurement, and travel, I take everything with me, but most people just lock everything but the mobile phone in their desk at night.

Nevertheless, I'm with the others. Assume that it is a possibility that your worst fears may not habe not occurred.


----------



## jerry123

Halien said:


> At her income level, the last thing her company would want is for her to be spending the time to learn how to set up complex communication tools, but I wouldn't necessarily assume that she doesn't have them these days. At her pay level, the last thing her company would want is for her to spend much time trying to figure out the communication tools that they give her. Times are changing. Smartphones, laptops, card devices for mobile IP phone access, and ipads are all common. Since I work in procurement, and travel, I take everything with me, but most people just lock everything but the mobile phone in their desk at night.
> 
> Nevertheless, I'm with the others. Assume that it is a possibility that your worst fears may not habe not occurred.



That is where i am at now, i am calm/level headed so i can concentrate on "ME". If i change the way i want then she will have no other choice to notice. If she likes the change i win, if she does not like the change, i win because at least I will be happy either way.

+2 for me...
-1 for her, she will lose a great husband.


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry, my computer does the opposite, it warns if i click show icons for UPnp devices. I clicked yes and it took me to the wizard to set it up. It was taking so long, i clicked hide. So it seem as if it was already setup on your pc dude. Try this, click show pc in my network.


----------



## bandit.45

Good attitude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

Or it may mean it won't show icons unless someone logon remote. Oh hell, just forget man, Just have a good wknd. I'm running myself crazy now.


----------



## Shaggy

Do you need a new pc for your job search? Get yourself an iPad or a new laptop thats clean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

OldWolf57 said:


> Jerry, my computer does the opposite, it warns if i click show icons for UPnp devices. I clicked yes and it took me to the wizard to set it up. It was taking so long, i clicked hide. So it seem as if it was already setup on your pc dude. Try this, click show pc in my network.


yes, mine did the same but it only took 1 minute. I guess if someone does login an icon will come up.


----------



## OldWolf57

just relax for now. I was thinking if it wasn't for the b day song, itwas ok. You know him acting weird. Maybe he was hitting on her an she flirted, he went to far, she threatened to tell you, then you gave him the cold shoulder. Its just the D**M song and his drink she hinted at.


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## OldWolf57

Wait, did you write it showed the setup wizard when you hit show icons ? Or did it go right to it but was unpopulated ?? The reason, My pc warned it would have to open a port in the firewall to set it up.


----------



## jerry123

Hmm, I don't remember. Right now if I click on hide those things it warns me something. I am not home now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> I am in great shape now, lost 20 pounds. Weigh 176 and have been lifting weights for 5 months. She does see the change and has told me I look great. But rarely asks for sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did she ever or is that something fairly recent?


----------



## jerry123

Oh, she asked 3 weeks ago and last few months probably 5 times. But that averages 1.2 each month. That's not much. Like I said 25% of the time it's her. She did complain that I wanted BJ's a lot. She said I should not expect BJ's all the time and they should be a treat. Like if I'm good this month I get a treat. "F" her. Once I get my control back I am going to make her beg me for her to give me a Bj!!!'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry, read carefully. When I first clicked show UPnp, it went to the wizard, after warning me about having to open a firewall port. Then it showed nothing. so I clicked hide UPnp icons. So, didyou set up the wizard or was it already setup and saying HIDE UPnp icons ??


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> Oh, she asked 3 weeks ago and last few months probably 5 times. But that averages 1.2 each month. That's not much. Like I said 25% of the time it's her. She did complain that I wanted BJ's a lot. She said I should not expect BJ's all the time and they should be a treat. Like if I'm good this month I get a treat. "F" her. Once I get my control back I am going to make her beg me for her to give me a Bj!!!'
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Careful Jerry. Don't overdo it.


----------



## jerry123

OldWolf57 said:


> Jerry, read carefully. When I first clicked show UPnp, it went to the wizard, after warning me about having to open a firewall port. Then it showed nothing. so I clicked hide UPnp icons. So, didyou set up the wizard or was it already setup and saying HIDE UPnp icons ??


I hit "show UPNP", the wizard started and was doing something. I may have clicked proceed and after it went through wizard it showed nothing. Right now it says "hide UPnp" and if i click it, then a warning comes up "you have chosen to hide UPnP device icons. This will also close the windows firewall ports so that the UPnP device software can no longer discover UPnP devices." but i don't say yes...what happens if i click yes?


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Careful Jerry. Don't overdo it.


LOL, i know. I just get pissed that so many years she has been doing this to me. And she knows it. I can tell by her look yesterday. It took her back and the look was priceless because she knew i meant it.


----------



## OldWolf57

It will close the firewall port. Did you go back to my network places and click view workgroup computers ?


----------



## OldWolf57

Man why don't I check before doing. Jerry UPnp is universal plug N play, sorry guy. I keep a link for PC.net for computer and internet terms, but didn't check befor reply.


----------



## OldWolf57

Forget this stuff for now. Just ENJOY YOUR WOMAN, and get that job. Her mouth is saying stay home, but the new you with tude is starting to get her motor running. So get back to being the you she married. God Bless your Family !!


----------



## jerry123

OldWolf57 said:


> It will close the firewall port. Did you go back to my network places and click view workgroup computers ?


Yes, it just says my computer. Is what I did not good concerning the UPnP thing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

jerry123 said:


> I am in great shape now, lost 20 pounds. Weigh 176 and have been lifting weights for 5 months. She does see the change and has told me I look great. But rarely asks for sex.


Okay, that's an outstanding start. In another six months of dedicated work she'll be running her hands all over your shoulders, back and arms and telling you what a beautiful body you've got. That happens real quick after you start getting validated by other women in public.

I know you're reading MMSL and that's great stuff. I also recommend Roissy.


----------



## jerry123

Machiavelli said:


> Okay, that's an outstanding start. In another six months of dedicated work she'll be running her hands all over your shoulders, back and arms and telling you what a beautiful body you've got. That happens real quick after you start getting validated by other women in public.
> 
> I know you're reading MMSL and that's great stuff. I also recommend Roissy.


Ok, yes. Its happened already. 2 people said something great about how I look right in front of her. Why did I not read that book 6 months ago. LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Yes, she never expected me to tell her i am getting a job. On top of me working out and looking very good (IMHO). Caught her rubbing my muscles this morning. Not to have sex but little things like that can tell me a lot.
> Also, she has turned a 180 degrees on being mad/angry about me accusing her but that could mean she is seeing a change in me or she pulled wool over my eyes about my accusation and sees i probably believes her and is just acting. But only time will tell.


Actually, what she hears when you are accusing her is you saying you're jealous. It may have come to point where things are a bit stale, she's wondering if you are into her like you used to be. She see's you being jealous and that makes you more attractive to her plus those muscles poppin. She's thinkin he sure ain't the Pilsbury dough boy. That's my man. MMSL sounds like a sex guide but you might try a real sex guide for a little adventure. 

How often do you date your wife?

Sorry if this has ben covered, trying to catch up.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> yes, mine did the same but it only took 1 minute. I guess if someone does login an icon will come up.



From a google search;


"You can also install an excellent free antikeylogging program called "SnoopFree Privacy Shield" which is highly effective. It does not use definitions to find keyloggers like antivirus programs do... It basically stops any program that tries to hook to your keyboard or screen, so they cannot see what you are doing or typing. I have personally tested this against 4 keyloggers and it stopped all of them in their tracks.
It got a 5 star rating from Download.com editiors.
http://www.download.com/SnoopFree-Privac…

If you really want to know if you are safe from software keyloggers, then run the AKLT tool -- this is an excellent way to test if a keylogger can see your keystrokes.
http://www.firewallleaktester.com/aklt.h…"


----------



## Machiavelli

jerry123 said:


> Ok, yes. Its happened already. 2 people said something great about how I look right in front of her. Why did I not read that book 6 months ago. LOL


There you are. Outside validation in front of your wife. Your sex rank just went wway up for her. I agree with Chap that the jealousy display is also most likely a positive, also. It's positively cave man.


----------



## Shaggy

chapparal said:


> You can also install an excellent free antikeylogging program called "SnoopFree Privacy Shield" which is highly effective. It does not use definitions to find keyloggers like antivirus programs do... It basically stops any program that tries to hook to your keyboard or screen, so they cannot see what you are doing or typing. I have personally tested this against 4 keyloggers and it stopped all of them in their tracks.
> It got a 5 star rating from Download.com editiors.
> http://www.download.com/SnoopFree-Privac…
> 
> If you really want to know if you are safe from software keyloggers, then run the AKLT tool -- this is an excellent way to test if a keylogger can see your keystrokes.
> http://www.firewallleaktester.com/aklt.h…


Firewallleaktester seems to be on hiatus
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57

click hide the icons, it warns you are closing the hol in the firewall, and won't be able to see icons. but it's only for plug and play. Yo can go to PC.NET and click glossary for the full explanation. Now it does say you can connect over wifi, bluetooth or hardwire different components thru it. So, if you have a game on your phone and the pc you can connect thru UPnP. Thats why checking I think view workgroup computers would be better since she is not pc smart.


----------



## OldWolf57

You know, I really hope you find nothing, and it was just your guts warning you she was pulling away, and you caught it in time. I really hope you caught her just getting close to the fire, and put out the flame with your quick thinking and Alpha tude. Rock On Man !!!!


----------



## OldWolf57

Anyway, it always best to not have many holes in your firewall. So click hide.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Actually, what she hears when you are accusing her is you saying you're jealous. It may have come to point where things are a bit stale, she's wondering if you are into her like you used to be. She see's you being jealous and that makes you more attractive to her plus those muscles poppin. She's thinkin he sure ain't the Pilsbury dough boy. That's my man. MMSL sounds like a sex guide but you might try a real sex guide for a little adventure.
> 
> How often do you date your wife?
> 
> Sorry if this has ben covered, trying to catch up.



I will if my "MAP" works from the MMSG works in the next few months. Great idea BTW...


----------



## jerry123

Hmmmm, now she tells me I should go alone to MC. And is critizing the MC credentials.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> Hmmmm, now she tells me I should go alone to MC. And is critizing the MC credentials.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



sh!t test?


----------



## jerry123

What do u mean...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> What do u mean...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is testing to see if the "new you" is real or fake. Also whether you are serious about the problems in the marriage and your commitment to them, and to fixing them

If you resort to your old self, the "ok dear whatever you want" guy, she will know you aren't serious.

Did you research the MC? Is she/he what you want in an MC?

If this is what you want tell her that. Don't accept anything less.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Hmmmm, now she tells me I should go alone to MC. And is critizing the MC credentials.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You should both pick the MC -- and hopefully not out of the phone book or online. 

My take is that you both should go to the MC the first session and sort of interview the person and decide if both of you are comfortable and like the MC.

Stand up to her and ask her what good is going to MC alone ?? Get her opinion on the another MC -- I believe this is something to do as a couple and someone you both should be selecting. If the 1st MC doesn't work -- change to another.

Also, if she has a part in choosing the MC -- the burden also falls back on her -- which means she really has no reason to say NO. If she continues to say NO -- I would be concerned.

You guys are having trouble as a couple -- and I believe this decision of choosing a MC to fix your marriage should be made together.

How about IC's === do you have individual therapists picked ?? Maybe one and the same -- maybe not the same person.


----------



## jerry123

She seems in a different world after the last few days. She tells me I should go alone now. Forgot to tell u guys, when I accused her she said no and I must be cheating. And then said where is your proof. And was extremely defensive. I'm getting bad vibes like she is feeling guilty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Also, the MC is very close to our house, takes our insurance. Is well qualified. I think she will feel intimidated by a MC. My wife is a highly skilled in what she does and I don't think she will like having being told she has flaws.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp

Why do you wish to remain married to her? If the roles were reversed would she be accepting all of this from you?


----------



## Will_Kane

_when i told her about the neighbors sex talk *i said i know what he is doing.* In the beginning, when he would start sex talk he waits for reaction. With my wife he got it with a laugh or a reply. Which she did. And i also said he did it every time she was around. I told her if he gets a bad reaction from a woman he stops. Yes, he is a player who thinks he is 18 again. *I told her if i hear this sex talk again i expect you to react the correct way. If you don't i will!!!*_ 

If the chance arises for a get together with the neighbors, I would take it. It would give you some insight to see how they react to each other. A complete absence of this type of sex talk from him would be telling. Also, if he does keep it up, your wife's reaction would be telling. And, whether or not she puts him in his place or you have to, the reaction all around would help shed some light for you.


----------



## jerry123

Will_Kane said:


> _when i told her about the neighbors sex talk *i said i know what he is doing.* In the beginning, when he would start sex talk he waits for reaction. With my wife he got it with a laugh or a reply. Which she did. And i also said he did it every time she was around. I told her if he gets a bad reaction from a woman he stops. Yes, he is a player who thinks he is 18 again. *I told her if i hear this sex talk again i expect you to react the correct way. If you don't i will!!!*_
> 
> If the chance arises for a get together with the neighbors, I would take it. It would give you some insight to see how they react to each other. A complete absence of this type of sex talk from him would be telling. Also, if he does keep it up, your wife's reaction would be telling. And, whether or not she puts him in his place or you have to, the reaction all around would help shed some light for you.


Ok, right now she is being a mope around the house. She is really avoiding me. I'm just going to take my son to the store with me and just get away from her today. She is testing me I can tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Ok, right now she is being a mope around the house. She is really avoiding me. I'm just going to take my son to the store with me and just get away from her today. She is testing me I can tell.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Be strong and the "new" you. Anything new on the VAR/GPS ? Did she throw the " you have no proof" line out again today ?? The 1st talk you had when you lost it -- she said you have no proof. The 2nd talk she was more calm and not defensive and you said it went well. Try and back off a little today -- it sounds like you may need to just take a break for a couple of days and have some fun. Remember -- the new you. You have been in this "funk" for a while thinking she is cheating -- she just found out a couple of days ago and is absorbing all of this. Not to make any excuses here -- just trying to see both sides. I know you said you were going to wait to try anything physical -- maybe rethink that plan -- minus the "demand" for the BJ. That would be something the "old" Jerry would ask for.


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> Ok, right now she is being a mope around the house. She is really avoiding me. I'm just going to take my son to the store with me and just get away from her today. She is testing me I can tell.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This could mean one of three things.

1) she realizes her time of being in control is over, and is depressed about it.

2) she's guilty, and because of all of this, had to end it with her OM, and is suffering from the withdrawal of the affair being over/suspended,

3) she's come to the realization the marriage is in real trouble, while at the same time not wanting to admit that (no MC)

If I am you, I demand she come to MC.


----------



## keko

Jerry, if you do leave the houplumage sure to drop a VAR somewhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Jerry, if you do leave the houplumage sure to drop a VAR somewhere.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup, I will just back off. Left the VAR in our bedroom. I will listen to it later. Yes, I think she knows her control is over. And is depressed about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Be strong and the "new" you. Anything new on the VAR/GPS ? Did she throw the " you have no proof" line out again today ?? The 1st talk you had when you lost it -- she said you have no proof. The 2nd talk she was more calm and not defensive and you said it went well. Try and back off a little today -- it sounds like you may need to just take a break for a couple of days and have some fun. Remember -- the new you. You have been in this "funk" for a while thinking she is cheating -- she just found out a couple of days ago and is absorbing all of this. Not to make any excuses here -- just trying to see both sides. I know you said you were going to wait to try anything physical -- maybe rethink that plan -- minus the "demand" for the BJ. That would be something the "old" Jerry would ask for.


Nope, have not brought up my susp. and won't. She has not said "proof" anymore since it is not discussed. She said no and I dropped it. But I can tell she depressed about something and does not even want to talk today. So I left nicely with my son and when I get back I will not fight with her, just go about my day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Oopps, I meant to say house. Lol.

She spends most of her time in the bedroom?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I really wonder if she might have been seeing someone and dumped them because you were getting suspicious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

When the proof thing comes up again. Tell her it looks like you've got it. Then stall for a bit and watch her, and then take her to a mirror an tell her the guilt is wriiten all over her face.

Insist on marriage counseling with the one you picked. Tell her if the two of you don't agree she is any good you can find another. Tell her by not going to MC she is obviously trying to hide something, like an affair.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Nope, have not brought up my susp. and won't. She has not said "proof" anymore since it is not discussed. She said no and I dropped it. But I can tell she depressed about something and does not even want to talk today. So I left nicely with my son and when I get back I will not fight with her, just go about my day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can be a concerned husband and ask her "what's wrong honey?" Stay in as good humor as you can pass off.

VAR is not going to work if she is using a phone you can't crack. A hidden camera might catch her texting as soon as you leave though.


----------



## kindi

She's not interested in going to MC and she's actively avoiding you.

If she's innocent of the affair, then you could conjecture that she is pissed off at the false accusations. 

But if she's guilty, then it's fair to say she wants to continue right on with the affair and you are nothing more to her than an annoyance.


----------



## Gabriel

Shaggy said:


> I really wonder if she might have been seeing someone and dumped them because you were getting suspicious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, this could be it. Or just because she doesn't like the changes that are beginning to form. Her life was in her control, husband taking care of the house while she rakes in the money and does her thing. That little "perfect" life is about to change.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Yes, this could be it. Or just because she doesn't like the changes that are beginning to form. Her life was in her control, husband taking care of the house while she rakes in the money and does her thing. That little "perfect" life is about to change.


yup, she is now sleeping for the 2nd time today. 2 naps and sleeped till 8:30 AM. She won't even talk to me. I am just doing my thing right now. Then if she gets up i will make sure she sees me looking on monster.com.

I kind of think her perfect world is coming down around her...should be an interesting night.


----------



## Chaparral

She hasn't mentioned anything? She just quit talking?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> She hasn't mentioned anything? She just quit talking?


Not much at all other than telling me this morning that she wants me to go alone to MC, and critiqued the MC because of the college she went to. She is trying to be a ***** to me this morning. I just left and then took my son shopping. Now she had been sleeping for a total of 4 hours since 8:30 am. I really think reality is hitting her. And I'm kind of enjoying seeing her feel like I have been for the last month. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Poor Mrs. jerry123, she can't have her cake and eat it too.


----------



## Shaggy

Don't be cruel, but also be mindful of caving too quickly as well.

You are at least getting her attention.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

the guy said:


> Poor Mrs. jerry123, she can't have her cake and eat it too.


That's what I am thinking also. Looks like depression is kicking in. I won't be cruel. Actually I was trying to be nice since this morning. But that's not working.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Also to add, she has not eaten a think all day. 2 cups of coffee that's it, and she is still sleeping. I am just enjoying the day with my 2 kids...Think she will break this weekend?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Not much at all other than telling me this morning that she wants me to go alone to MC, and critiqued the MC because of the college she went to. She is trying to be a ***** to me this morning. I just left and then took my son shopping. Now she had been sleeping for a total of 4 hours since 8:30 am. I really think reality is hitting her. And I'm kind of enjoying seeing her feel like I have been for the last month.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was leaning to the not cheating side of the fence, this makes me start looking in the other direction... Like maybe she thinks a MC would be able to spot her lying and she is depressed now for what she has done.

Sorry don't mean to make you paranoid. I just hate this turn of events. She could be worrying that her actions have cost her her family.

Be confident and act like you know what she has done.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Also to add, she has not eaten a think all day. 2 cups of coffee that's it, and she is still sleeping. I am just enjoying the day with my 2 kids...Think she will break this weekend?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When she gets up ask her if she is OK. This is way out of character, right?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I was leaning to the not cheating side of the fence, this makes me start looking in the other direction... Like maybe she thinks a MC would be able to spot her lying and she is depressed now for what she has done.
> 
> Sorry don't mean to make you paranoid. I just hate this turn of events. She could be worrying that her actions have cost her her family.
> 
> Be confident and act like you know what she has done.


Yes, that is my thinking to the point. Oh I'm not paranoid. I am over that. I am actually glad the way things have turned out. She is feeling my pain right now and I am doing just fine. Karma, got to love it. I think I am going up to wake her. Then ask her what's wrong...you've been sleeping most of the day. :>)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

I think that's a good idea - but when you wake her, don't be over lovey dovey. You can express concern without caving.

You do need to get to the bottom of why she is behaving this way. It sounds like she's not usually very moody, so this is a bit strange. She's probably quite worried about your sudden changes.

I mean, you've accused her of cheating, you've started looking for jobs, and you've changed your demeanor tremendously. It's a lot for someone to deal with in such a short time. Maybe she's depressed that her husband seems like a completely different person, one she can't control and she's scared of the future. 

Or, she's realizing she needs to confess to you something bad, and is having trouble coping with that.


----------



## Gabriel

Frankly, I would flat out ask her why she is so depressed - demand an answer without being mean and nasty, but without caving either. Tough, I realize, but you can do it.

Also, if I'm you, I say her coming to MC is a condition of yours. Non-negotiable. The college thing is an excuse.


----------



## Shaggy

One strategy is to throw a couple of glasses of wine into her while you just sip. Then talk to her. Be prepared but she might just open up. 
No matter what she says be alpha cool and detached. No negative reaction and hopefully she would spill her guts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Frankly, I would flat out ask her why she is so depressed - demand an answer without being mean and nasty, but without caving either. Tough, I realize, but you can do it.
> 
> Also, if I'm you, I say her coming to MC is a condition of yours. Non-negotiable. The college thing is an excuse.


I agree, but i am so cool/calm and she can't even look me in the face. I have to believe it's either she is mad at the new "ME". Or can't look at me because i know what she did. But at the same time she seems so angry at me, not yelling just is in another state of mind.


----------



## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> One strategy is to throw a couple of glasses of wine into her while you just sip. Then talk to her. Be prepared but she might just open up.
> No matter what she says be alpha cool and detached. No negative reaction and hopefully she would spill her guts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She does not drink much and is in no mood to drink now...


----------



## the guy

Leave her alone and when she pokes her head out just inform her you are here if she needs support and leave it at that.

Don't feed her and wait a day more, she might crack and you might get the whole story. LOL
I take the waterboarding didn't reveal anything?

Seriously I think by Monday I would confront her about not eating, the kids are concerned, and send her the the docters.


----------



## Will_Kane

What is her typical routine for a Saturday?


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> She does not drink much and is in no mood to drink now...


You might be surprised.


----------



## Chaparral

How long did it take for this "depression" to set in? What happened timeline wise?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> How long did it take for this "depression" to set in? What happened timeline wise?


Happened around 10:00am, When she said I should go alone to MC. I said no, after talking to MC on phone I told her she said both should go. This day is totally not like her...
I am on the side of her not being able to hold the lies when we talk to MC. I can so tell she does not want to see MC. It's back to my gut feeling....if she does not go with me that is a big red flag, but I will still go. The MC idea is really scaring her. I wonder why?!?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Will_Kane said:


> What is her typical routine for a Saturday?


Not like this day...she has spent most of day in bed sulking. So friggin strange...she will not talk to me. Guilt???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mario Kempes

jerry123 said:


> Not like this day...she has spent most of day in bed sulking. So friggin strange...she will not talk to me. Guilt???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you've broken her, Jerry.


----------



## jerry123

Mario Kempes said:


> I think you've broken her, Jerry.


I think so too...i am going to put kids to bed then tell her i am going to watch a movie down stairs. And see if she comes down to talk later...
Thanks all for the posts...it has helped me more than you can imagine.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> The MC idea is really scaring her. I wonder why?!?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Could be plenty of reason's, but until you find out for sure I would suggest not to push her any further if she start's talking to you. Seem's like she is already messed up, no need to make it worse.


----------



## Shaggy

One option is to give her the come clean now and I promise to do 50% of the working fixing the marriage speech. Tell her you really dont want an ending, but her actions are making you believe the worst. You still her talking to her even though you she is making you believe the worst case. So it now her time to take a lep of faith and tell you what's up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I think so too...i am going to put kids to bed then tell her i am going to watch a movie down stairs. And see if she comes down to talk later...
> Thanks all for the posts...it has helped me more than you can imagine.


Wishing the best. Expect the worst now. Don't know what else to say.


----------



## Chaparral

She isn't stupid, she has to know what this looks like. I think Shaggy's idea is great. She obviously is in a corner and needs a way out. Just telling her some of the things that made you think she was cheating would not have caused her to cheat. I'm always amused when someone suggests I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing. I don't get mad, the situation just makes me laugh. Anyone else do that? This is on the order of "methinks thou doth protest to much"(?).

Is it possible she is just this upset because you have made so many changes? She could truly think you are cheating and getting a job to move out. She may have concluded you will also get custody as you have been the main care provider. Is she sleeping with her phone? Ask her to see it and ask her for the password.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> She isn't stupid, she has to know what this looks like. I think Shaggy's idea is great. She obviously is in a corner and needs a way out. Just telling her some of the things that made you think she was cheating would not have caused her to cheat. I'm always amused when someone suggests I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing. I don't get mad, the situation just makes me laugh. Anyone else do that? This is on the order of "methinks thou doth protest to much"(?).
> 
> Is it possible she is just this upset because you have made so many changes? She could truly think you are cheating and getting a job to move out. She may have concluded you will also get custody as you have been the main care provider. Is she sleeping with her phone? Ask her to see it and ask her for the password.


Oh no, she did accuse me after I said to her I think she is cheating. She does not sleep with phone. Been checking phone while I was home since she has been sleeping. Watching a movie now alone. I will update tomorrow. May be a good or bad night. I will just keep an open mind if it's bad. 

Thank you guys...could not deal with this without you!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

Jerry -- I believe you said in one of your posts that she comes home from work, eats dinner then goes to bed. If that is the case -- she may be suffering from depression -- and now the change in you and asking to see a MC scares her because she has to admit she is in depression before she can be helped. Depression is real -- and a very destructive decease -- but like anything else -- the person suffering from depression --has to admit and accept they are depressed -- and seek help on their own time -- before that help can begin.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry -- I believe you said in one of your posts that she comes home from work, eats dinner then goes to bed. If that is the case -- she may be suffering from depression -- and now the change in you and asking to see a MC scares her because she has to admit she is in depression before she can be helped. Depression is real -- and a very destructive decease -- but like anything else -- the person suffering from depression --has to admit and accept they are depressed -- and seek help on their own time -- before that help can begin.


Yes, you are correct...thanks for the insight.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> She isn't stupid, she has to know what this looks like. I think Shaggy's idea is great. She obviously is in a corner and needs a way out. Just telling her some of the things that made you think she was cheating would not have caused her to cheat. I'm always amused when someone suggests I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing. I don't get mad, the situation just makes me laugh. Anyone else do that? This is on the order of "methinks thou doth protest to much"(?).
> 
> Is it possible she is just this upset because you have made so many changes? She could truly think you are cheating and getting a job to move out. She may have concluded you will also get custody as you have been the main care provider. Is she sleeping with her phone? Ask her to see it and ask her for the password.


Hmmm, the more I think about this I change it around. What would I think if she asked me the same question. Being innocent I would not act the way she did. I am thinking back to the other night. She was so f'in mad and accused me of cheating. If she asked me the same thing I would have calmly said no and asked why would she think that. Not say where is the proof. The more I think about it the more I am 99.9% sure she does not want to see a MC because the truth will be seen by her. My eyes are more wide open than ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Hmmm, the more I think about this I change it around. What would I think if she asked me the same question. Being innocent I would not act the way she did. I am thinking back to the other night. She was so f'in mad and accused me of cheating. If she asked me the same thing I would have calmly said no and asked why would she think that. Not say where is the proof. The more I think about it the more I am 99.9% sure she does not want to see a MC because the truth will be seen by her. My eyes are more wide open than ever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, I forgot she went to bed so early like that. If she is in a bad mental state there is no telling how she would react to anything. Depression or whatever. I would insist on MC and make her go. I would also fore warn the counselor to look for depression. Having said that a lot of WSs here have a history of depression, BSs too. If she is depressed do not press her as she is in a frgile mental state. Ask her if she is in need of anything. Time to bait with sugar not salt.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Actually, I forgot she went to bed so early like that. If she is in a bad mental state there is no telling how she would react to anything. Depression or whatever. I would insist on MC and make her go. I would also fore warn the counselor to look for depression. Having said that a lot of WSs here have a history of depression, BSs too. If she is depressed do not press her as she is in a frgile mental state. Ask her if she is in need of anything. Time to bait with sugar not salt.


I see, about to go up and see if she is awake. This is soooo not like her today. I have a strange feeling it will result in something coming out. Talk to u guys tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Well....anyone want to guess what happened last night? Was it a confession or sex???

You guessed it, sex for 1 1/2 hours....but it went against Alpha rules and MMSG since she will be having her menstrual any day. I read this is a bad time for Alpha and rough sex. But i guess the new "me" flip flopped her desire. I'm mean she wanted it rough...And i got a pretty good BJ to boot.

And i asked her about being in bed all day, she just told me it was the weather and i dropped it.

Also, i know she will be wondering about my views on MC after last night. But i will stick to it and say we need to go. 

Any ideas how i should treat her today, i am thinking just act normal, give a few hugs and kisses and bring up MC tonight while watching tv when kids are in bed so she knows i am still serious.

Ok, got to get some ibuprofen. A little sore from last night...


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Well....anyone want to guess what happened last night? Was it a confession or sex???
> 
> You guessed it, sex for 1 1/2 hours....but it went against Alpha rules and MMSG since she will be having her menstrual any day. I read this is a bad time for Alpha and rough sex. But i guess the new "me" flip flopped her desire. I'm mean she wanted it rough...And i got a pretty good BJ to boot.
> 
> And i asked her about being in bed all day, she just told me it was the weather and i dropped it.
> 
> Also, i know she will be wondering about my views on MC after last night. But i will stick to it and say we need to go.
> 
> Any ideas how i should treat her today, i am thinking just act normal, give a few hugs and kisses and bring up MC tonight while watching tv when kids are in bed so she knows i am still serious.
> 
> Ok, got to get some ibuprofen. A little sore from last night...


Lucky Guy !! Now to clear your head from the fog and bring you back to reality -- one night of great sex does not solve your problems as a couple. I would just enjoy the day -- have fun with her and your kids and not bring up the MC. One or two days -- even till next weekend can be the time to discuss the MC. Try being with her this whole week and not let her eat and go up to bed early. Show her the new you can be strong, sexy, but also a good listener and friend. I also assume the VAR from the last view days show nothing -- you guys had a great one and a half hours -- but not a great day. Something is still wrong -- and it is not the weather -- as this was abnormal behavior for your wife yesterday -- maybe including the sex part. Be happy today -- be aware of everything going on -- just watch and observe the next week. I don't mean from a cheating POV -- but from depression. Sometimes we are too close to even realize what is happening right in front of our eyes.


----------



## lovelygirl

A night of great sex could her be trap so that you can stop thinking that she's cheating.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Lucky Guy !! Now to clear your head from the fog and bring you back to reality -- one night of great sex does not solve your problems as a couple. I would just enjoy the day -- have fun with her and your kids and not bring up the MC. One or two days -- even till next weekend can be the time to discuss the MC. Try being with her this whole week and not let her eat and go up to bed early. Show her the new you can be strong, sexy, but also a good listener and friend. I also assume the VAR from the last view days show nothing -- you guys had a great one and a half hours -- but not a great day. Something is still wrong -- and it is not the weather -- as this was abnormal behavior for your wife yesterday -- maybe including the sex part. Be happy today -- be aware of everything going on -- just watch and observe the next week. I don't mean from a cheating POV -- but from depression. Sometimes we are too close to even realize what is happening right in front of our eyes.


Yeah, VAR shows nothing. Good advice....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Often even if the routine has become bothersome we stick to because change is simply against our nature.

I was litrerally dreading reading your post this morning and look what a good turn it took. Bits and pieces of your thread seem to be matches for what has happened in other threads but that doesn't seem to shed any light on your situation. 

For example, Daily Grind and his wife grew apart and one of the problems was her going to bed early, him late. This grew into a gulf that led to the beginnings of an EA for the wife. Like her your wife may not recognize what the neighbor was plotting. I have no doubt that whether or not anything happened your neighbor was trying to wear your wife down, and there are no doubt many more oppurtunities to do that in the summer than winter. It may be that you have stopped something before it happened. It may also be that you caught something in its beginning stages. 

MC is absolutely a no brainer. Something, depression, infidelity or something else is going on and you need to find it to heal it. Your MC may suggest IC for one or both of you.

Good luck and prayers

Chap


----------



## jerry123

lovelygirl said:


> A night of great sex could her be trap so that you can stop thinking that she's cheating.


Oh I hear ya, but at MC I will bring up I accused her and tell the MC why. And my wife will be there to hear it again. This time the MC will look for signs of my wife being on edge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mtufail

family counseling atlanta


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Often even if the routine has become bothersome we stick to because change is simply against our nature.
> 
> I was litrerally dreading reading your post this morning and look what a good turn it took. Bits and pieces of your thread seem to be matches for what has happened in other threads but that doesn't seem to shed any light on your situation.
> 
> For example, Daily Grind and his wife grew apart and one of the problems was her going to bed early, him late. This grew into a gulf that led to the beginnings of an EA for the wife. Like her your wife may not recognize what the neighbor was plotting. I have no doubt that whether or not anything happened your neighbor was trying to wear your wife down, and there are no doubt many more oppurtunities to do that in the summer than winter. It may be that you have stopped something before it happened. It may also be that you caught something in its beginning stages.
> 
> MC is absolutely a no brainer. Something, depression, infidelity or something else is going on and you need to find it to heal it. Your MC may suggest IC for one or both of you.
> 
> Good luck and prayers
> 
> Chap


Thank you...I will continue to monitor VAR/GPS and her emails on BB. The password is still the same. She has not changed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Thank you...I will continue to monitor VAR/GPS and her emails on BB. The password is still the same. She has not changed it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again not knowing what is going on in her mind -- her not changing her password on her phone is a positive -- as is nothing on VAR.


----------



## Chaparral

You know, after last nights bonding, the fact that you need MC doesn't change. But your approach should still be to insist on it, but to at least attempt to show compassion, love, and concern for your wife and family in doing so. Only resort to a more heavy handed approach if the genuine, loving, concerned approach doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Sugar is a better bait than salt but you still may have to use a 2x4. Hopefully her massive dose of love will have her in a more agreeable mood. Stress teamwork.


----------



## Chaparral

jh52 said:


> Again not knowing what is going on in her mind -- her not changing her password on her phone is a positive -- as is nothing on VAR.


Since she has so many ways to communicate from work the phone issue is moot. Only 1 in 5 affairs are supposedly discovered so hiding one is easier than it should be. Also, another study claims a mans gut feeling is only right 50% of the time. You would not guess that being around here for a while, form these threads it seems more like 95%. A woman's intuition is supposed to be right 80% of the time. That aggravates me.LOL


----------



## jh52

chapparal said:


> Often even if the routine has become bothersome we stick to because change is simply against our nature.
> 
> I was litrerally dreading reading your post this morning and look what a good turn it took. Bits and pieces of your thread seem to be matches for what has happened in other threads but that doesn't seem to shed any light on your situation.
> 
> For example, Daily Grind and his wife grew apart and one of the problems was her going to bed early, him late. This grew into a gulf that led to the beginnings of an EA for the wife. Like her your wife may not recognize what the neighbor was plotting. I have no doubt that whether or not anything happened your neighbor was trying to wear your wife down, and there are no doubt many more oppurtunities to do that in the summer than winter. It may be that you have stopped something before it happened. It may also be that you caught something in its beginning stages.
> 
> MC is absolutely a no brainer. Something, depression, infidelity or something else is going on and you need to find it to heal it. Your MC may suggest IC for one or both of you.
> 
> Good luck and prayers
> 
> Chap


Totall agree here. Neighbor may have detected something in your wife that Jerry -- you have not -- again being too close -- and started his plot/plan. Observe him and her carefully at the next party in a couple of weeks -- my guess you will still see him the agressor with his sex talk -- and see if the "new" her steps up as promised and cuts him off. If she doesn't -- you step in and cut him off. You said your wife would put you down in public -- is she also agressive and confrontational to others when she needs to be? I ask that because if she is not confrontation in nature (except to you !! LOL) then she may not be able to put neighbor in his place. Again observe and listen -- and don't try to interprete one action or word by her.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Totall agree here. Neighbor may have detected something in your wife that Jerry -- you have not -- again being too close -- and started his plot/plan. Observe him and her carefully at the next party in a couple of weeks -- my guess you will still see him the agressor with his sex talk -- and see if the "new" her steps up as promised and cuts him off. If she doesn't -- you step in and cut him off. You said your wife would put you down in public -- is she also agressive and confrontational to others when she needs to be? I ask that because if she is not confrontation in nature (except to you !! LOL) then she may not be able to put neighbor in his place. Again observe and listen -- and don't try to interprete one action or word by her.


Depends on who is around at the parties. If she knows the people well enough she will be. The neighbor knows this so he will focus on her. Next time it happens I will embarrass him in front of people. That should stop it in its track.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Depends on who is around at the parties. If she knows the people well enough she will be. The neighbor knows this so he will focus on her. Next time it happens I will embarrass him in front of people. That should stop it in its track.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After the way he's acted lately, I would expect him to be more sneaky than to say something in front of you.


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## Chaparral

Have you ever noticed if any of the other husbands in your circle have a problem with him?


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## happyman64

Jerry

I am glad you got some.

Keep your eyes and ears open. The weather my ass!!

Good Luck and Do not bend on the MC. Go together!!!!

HM64


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## Shaggy

Jerry, you got some good BUT it was out of character for her wasn't it? Can't help but wonder if it was hysterical bonding on her part based on guilt. Watch her very closely the next few days. I'm worried where this is still going friend. Watch out for other out of character things, such as her wanting s lot of sex suddenly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> Jerry, you got some good BUT it was out of character for her wasn't it? Can't help but wonder if it was hysterical bonding on her part based on guilt. Watch her very closely the next few days. I'm worried where this is still going friend. Watch out for other out of character things, such as her wanting s lot of sex suddenly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes it was out of character but I think now it had a lot to do about her thinking all day about MC, me getting a job, me not backing down. And that got her a bit excited sexually. MMSG says woman eat it up when a guy shows power that she is not used to. But it could be a test to see if I back down, which I did not. And it could have been to deflect if she is cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

Sounds like you are doing the right things Jerry. Keep up the good work and keep staying vigilant without driving yourself nuts. MC is still in order, for both of you.


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## jerry123

Also, This morning I went up to her about a hour after she got up and said last night was fun, I'm glad you can open up and tell me things you like (wanting it rough). Gave her a kiss, then caressed her breast while I was going back to what I was doing.Oh and my son said to my wife, mom are you like 21 years old and she said no. Then I cut in and said but she has the body of a 21 year old. She smiled at that...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Also, This morning I went up to her about a hour after she got up and said last night was fun, I'm glad you can open up and tell me things you like (wanting it rough). Gave her a kiss, then caressed her breast while I was going back to what I was doing.Oh and my son said to my wife, mom are you like 21 years old and she said no. Then I cut in and said but she has the body of a 21 year old. She smiled at that...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great job Jerry. The new you is coming on strong. Just a question -- was last night the 1st time she has ever opened up to you what she wanted sexually ?? If it was -- maybe she has wanted to tell you but was ashamed -- to tell you -- maybe it's a break through. Like before -- just have fun -- watch and observe -- get out of your daily routine - of eating and her going up to bed early -- be strong -- but also respect and listen to her. One point -- really listening is not just hearing/listening.


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## happyman64

Shaggy is right.

Have your VARs ready with fresh batteries for the week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Great job Jerry. The new you is coming on strong. Just a question -- was last night the 1st time she has ever opened up to you what she wanted sexually ?? If it was -- maybe she has wanted to tell you but was ashamed -- to tell you -- maybe it's a break through. Like before -- just have fun -- watch and observe -- get out of your daily routine - of eating and her going up to bed early -- be strong -- but also respect and listen to her. One point -- really listening is not just hearing/listening.


No, she has told me what she likes in the past. But not as direct as last night. Plus she brought up MC today and said she would try and change a week day work schedule so we can go when she gets out early from work. I said great...
With my new "body" I can tell she really used her hands last night all over me. And I tried something new, I stoked my self while she played with her breasts and told her I wanted her to watch me while I did that. I said it made me excited for her to watch me doing that... I think a lot if not most of last night had to do with me being dominating and the recent change in my attitude. At least that's what I have to keep thinking. But still I will watch and listen to see if it was just guilt. She is much better today as to eating and not laying in bed all day. Thanks so much guys...I will update when I have good or bad news.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Shaggy is right.
> 
> Have your VARs ready with fresh batteries for the week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, it will be all ready for this week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

Well, for those of you that have been helping me i appreciate all the advice. Yesterday was somewhat normal. But it's saturday and a few other things that are on my mind. First, when i accused her (last tuesday) she got so defensive and said i must be cheating. Then, the next day we calmed down and i told her you have one chance to tell me the truth "are you cheating"...her answer was "nope" and said where is the proof.

I know i should not dwell on this and i am really not (just popped in mind hour ago). 
I just switch it around and wonder if she asked me those things i would not act the way she did, not at all.
And to others, when you confronted you WS. Did they also accuse you?


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## the guy

During the confrontation,no, fWW didn't accuse me, she just looked at her cell I had set next to her and she just started crying.

I busted her with solid evidence and nothing else really mattered.


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Well, for those of you that have been helping me i appreciate all the advice. Yesterday was somewhat normal. But it's saturday and a few other things that are on my mind. First, when i accused her (last tuesday) she got so defensive and said i must be cheating. Then, the next day we calmed down and i told her you have one chance to tell me the truth "are you cheating"...her answer was "nope" and said where is the proof.
> 
> I know i should not dwell on this and i am really not (just popped in mind hour ago).
> I just switch it around and wonder if she asked me those things i would not act the way she did, not at all.
> And to others, when you confronted you WS. Did they also accuse you?


The next step for you to do is hire a PI. You have no evidence on her cell phone, the VARS or the GPS. She doesn't seem to have changed her coming and going patterns. She has agreed to go with you to MC.


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## Tasorundo

At what point is the right step to actually believe her? What if the PI doesn't find anything? Hire two of them?


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> The next step for you to do is hire a PI. You have no evidence on her cell phone, the VARS or the GPS. She doesn't seem to have changed her coming and going patterns. She has agreed to go with you to MC.


She is back and forth on MC now...so sick of these mind games so i give her a choice to go and if she says no then i just go. I don't act pissed or angry. I keep showing her i am the better person to want and fix this marriage. Just seems she wants to keep it the way it was. I keep being a SAHD, she works and has power over me. 
I am going to visit my old job tomorrow and i let her know that. I know how i want this marriage to be and i will strive for that. By showing her i am sick of her domination over me, and the new "me" she is getting to the point of mood swings. In bed all day saturday, then wanting to have sex with me out of the blue for 1 1/2 hours. Sunday she was somewhat normal, then this morning when i tell her about my old job she acts weird.


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## the guy

I'm just thinking out side the box here but I think she knows what happens at work and the protential to hook up with a coworker and your W would never know/or get proof.
This may explain the wierd behavior?
Not saying you would do this but that this could be were her mind set is.


Back in Nov. she had an A with the nieghbor, that ended but she found it so easy and addicting that after that A she started another with a co worker.

Speculation, I know, but its just my perspective of this whole cat and mouse game you two have going on.


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## jerry123

the guy said:


> I'm just thinking out side the box here but I think she knows what happens at work and the protential to hook up with a coworker and your W would never know/or get proof.
> This may explain the wierd behavior?
> Not saying you would do this but that this could be were her mind set is.
> 
> 
> Back in Nov. she had an A with the nieghbor, that ended but she found it so easy and addicting that after that A she started another with a co worker.
> 
> Speculation, I know, but its just my perspective of this whole cat and mouse game you two have going on.


The funny thing is, i have been thinking the same thing. Could she be turning into a serial cheater and loves the "high" from it. And if i do go back to work she may be thinking i would be around adults and with the new "me" and my physical change for the better.
I know we are going to counc. soon, or at least i am. BTW, I may be having doubts if she actually loves me since my mind has been more clear. Never really says "i love you" not even after i accused, or during sex. She refers to sex as sex and not making love. Has done this for most if not all the time we been married. Sad, i know.


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## gav

jerry123 said:


> She refers to sex as sex and not making love. Has done this for most if not all the time we been married. Sad, i know.


I don't know that I'd read too much into that. My wife loves me without a doubt, and I love her just as much, and neither one of us refers to it as "making love" ... I don't think we ever have.


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## jh52

the guy said:


> I'm just thinking out side the box here but I think she knows what happens at work and the protential to hook up with a coworker and your W would never know/or get proof.
> This may explain the wierd behavior?
> Not saying you would do this but that this could be were her mind set is.
> 
> 
> Back in Nov. she had an A with the nieghbor, that ended but she found it so easy and addicting that after that A she started another with a co worker.
> 
> Speculation, I know, but its just my perspective of this whole cat and mouse game you two have going on.


Now I am confused. You never said she had an affair before with the neighbor or anyone else. Now you state she is a serial cheater. What is the real story ??


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Now I am confused. You never said she had an affair before with the neighbor or anyone else. Now you state she is a serial cheater. What is the real story ??


oh sorry, not confirmed A with neighbor. I was just thinking out of the box also. Probably should not be doing that. I will just keep checking VAR/GPS. Sorry all, i am still going through a lot in my mind. My gut feeling is she did cheat, and i screwed up by not having proof first. 
I hope the MC can see things better than i can.


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## MarriedTex

Jerry,

To play devil's advocate here.....here's what she sees: Husband getting buff, getting ready to go back out in work force, perceives herself as nothing more than a paycheck for the family. She may have drawn the conclusion that you're getting ready to dump her. The big Saturday romp was her way of fighting to keep you. She may see marriage counseling as venue where you're going to drop an "I want a divorce" bomb on her.

I do think you two desparately need to communicate. Might acknowledge that "I'm trying to sort through some of my own changes, but my top priority is for us to be together - and happy together. MC will help in that."


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## jh52

MarriedTex said:


> Jerry,
> 
> To play devil's advocate here.....here's what she sees: Husband getting buff, getting ready to go back out in work force, perceives herself as nothing more than a paycheck for the family. She may have drawn the conclusion that you're getting ready to dump her. The big Saturday romp was her way of fighting to keep you. She may see marriage counseling as venue where you're going to drop an "I want a divorce" bomb on her.
> 
> I do think you two desparately need to communicate. Might acknowledge that "I'm trying to sort through some of my own changes, but my top priority is for us to be together - and happy together. MC will help in that."


Totally agree.

You both have to communicate better -- and have to stop her having dinner then going to bed during the week. You guys need together time every day/night -- which does not mean sex (LOL). I said this before -- when there is no communication between 2 people in a marriage -- we realize this -- don't know how to fix it -- but also our minds wander (like her affair with neighbor) -- VAR and GPS have been clean. I hope to hell she hasn't cheated on you -- but there is nothing I read that says she ever has. We have temptations every day in our life -- but hopefully she has remained strong and faithful to you and your kids.


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## Gabriel

gav said:


> I don't know that I'd read too much into that. My wife loves me without a doubt, and I love her just as much, and neither one of us refers to it as "making love" ... I don't think we ever have.


Yeah, my wife and I are in the same boat.


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> You both have to communicate better -- and have to stop her having dinner then going to bed during the week. You guys need together time every day/night -- which does not mean sex (LOL). I said this before -- when there is no communication between 2 people in a marriage -- we realize this -- don't know how to fix it -- but also our minds wander (like her affair with neighbor) -- VAR and GPS have been clean. I hope to hell she hasn't cheated on you -- but there is nothing I read that says she ever has. We have temptations every day in our life -- but hopefully she has remained strong and faithful to you and your kids.


I know...just called MC to schedule an appt. will keep my thoughts toward getting myself in right frame of mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I know...just called MC to schedule an appt. will keep my thoughts toward getting myself in right frame of mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great. Remember you both should like the MC after the 1st session. Don't get frustrated and read into anything if you wife doesn't. Just pick out another MC -- and another -- and another -- till you are both happy. Good luck !!


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## Chaparral

If she decides not to go to marriage counseling be upfront with her. Ask her if she doesn't want the marriage to work/last? Ask her if she asked you to go to marriage counseling and you said no, would she think you loved her. Then point blank ask her if she loves you. Then ask her why she avoids telling you she loves you.

When she answers, if she looks nervous, stammers, looks down at the floor and says of course she does, tell her her body language is telling a different story. 

If she tells you she loves you, hold out your hands for a hug, tell her you love her too and please go to MC with you. That she and your family mean everything to you.

I don't think either one of you believe the other thinks the sun and moon rises and sets with each other. 

Does your wife answer your questions with clear, nonevasive answers or does she give answers to questions she interprets differently than what you meant? Like she is guessing what you really mean?


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## jerry123

chapparal said:


> If she decides not to go to marriage counseling be upfront with her. Ask her if she doesn't want the marriage to work/last? Ask her if she asked you to go to marriage counseling and you said no, would she think you loved her. Then point blank ask her if she loves you. Then ask her why she avoids telling you she loves you.
> 
> When she answers, if she looks nervous, stammers, looks down at the floor and says of course she does, tell her her body language is telling a different story.
> 
> If she tells you she loves you, hold out your hands for a hug, tell her you love her too and please go to MC with you. That she and your family mean everything to you.
> 
> I don't think either one of you believe the other thinks the sun and moon rises and sets with each other.
> 
> Does your wife answer your questions with clear, nonevasive answers or does she give answers to questions she interprets differently than what you meant? Like she is guessing what you really mean?


Ok, good advice...

It's just been the same old same old for the last few years. I know it has a lot to do with me being a SAHD. So that is what i am changing for "ME". She thinks that going to work and bringing home the paycheck is her way of showing love. It will be interesting when we go to MC. She is not used to having to talk in font of someone about our marriage or any faults she may have.


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## Chaparral

An excellent book for you both would be "the Five Love Languages". There is a website too I think since a quiz is online.

Gives an explanation how different people want love to be expressed and includs a little questionaire for both spouses. Even if you have been together a long time it is usually an eye opener.


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Ok, good advice...
> 
> It's just been the same old same old for the last few years. I know it has a lot to do with me being a SAHD. So that is what i am changing for "ME". She thinks that going to work and bringing home the paycheck is her way of showing love. It will be interesting when we go to MC. She is not used to having to talk in font of someone about our marriage or any faults she may have.


Or faults you may have. Marriage is a partnership --not a dictatorship -- where both partners contribute. 

How was last night ? Did she come home, eat and go to bed -- or did you have together time ?? Just wondering.


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## jh52

chapparal said:


> An excellent book for you both would be "the Five Love Languages". There is a website too I think since a quiz is online.
> 
> Gives an explanation how different people want love to be expressed and includs a little questionaire for both spouses. Even if you have been together a long time it is usually an eye opener.


I agree -- I think it is worth a read -- for you both !!


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Or faults you may have. Marriage is a partnership --not a dictatorship -- where both partners contribute.
> 
> How was last night ? Did she come home, eat and go to bed -- or did you have together time ?? Just wondering.


Yes, I know I have faults. I told her that. 
Last night was good. Instead of me cleaning up after dinner I went upstairs and watch some tv and talked a bit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Yes, I know I have faults. I told her that.
> Last night was good. Instead of me cleaning up after dinner I went upstairs and watch some tv and talked a bit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep up the "new" you,


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## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Yes, I know I have faults. I told her that.
> Last night was good. Instead of me cleaning up after dinner I went upstairs and watch some tv and talked a bit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess most people eat dinner between 6and 7:30, do you guys eat much later than that? Does your wife start work fairly early?


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## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I guess most people eat dinner between 6and 7:30, do you guys eat much later than that? Does your wife start work fairly early?


Yes, eat at 6:30pm, she starts work at 7:00am. "Oh BTW, I have been checking her sent emails. One shows to a coworker about lunch, it says "thanks for lunch today. It was a surprise and a treat. Since I was not on the invite list. " now this is a guy she works with everyday. I am not saying she is going from neighbor to a coworker but it just hit me as a bit strange wording but my frame of mind is still saying she is not being truthful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> Yes, eat at 6:30pm, she starts work at 7:00am. "Oh BTW, I have been checking her sent emails. One shows to a coworker about lunch, it says "thanks for lunch today. It was a surprise and a treat. Since I was not on the invite list. " now this is a guy she works with everyday. I am not saying she is going from neighbor to a coworker but it just hit me as a bit strange wording but my frame of mind is still saying she is not being truthful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jerry, just keep watching the emails. This one, on its own, doesn't seem bad to me. Someone took a group to lunch, she wasn't originally included, then later she got asked along. She thanked him. I see nothing of concern here, but keep watching. Didn't know you had this capability.

So far, Jerry, things are looking pretty good. Lay low but keep your eyes open just in case.


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## keko

What does the GPS show? Did she go with her car or someone else's?


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## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Jerry, just keep watching the emails. This one, on its own, doesn't seem bad to me. Someone took a group to lunch, she wasn't originally included, then later she got asked along. She thanked him. I see nothing of concern here, but keep watching. Didn't know you had this capability.
> 
> So far, Jerry, things are looking pretty good. Lay low but keep your eyes open just in case.


I will, I can't screw this up like I screwed up the accusation. She is back and forth about MC but no doubt she will just try and go to the first one and have me go by myself after that. 

GPS has been normal. Nothing on VAR, the neighbor guy is out of state for another 10 days for work according to his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

Oh forgot to mention. I will be at a friends house this Friday from 8-11 pm. VAR will be charged up and ready to go in our bedroom in case she feels the need to call someone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

Gabriel said:


> Jerry, just keep watching the emails. This one, on its own, doesn't seem bad to me. Someone took a group to lunch, she wasn't originally included, then later she got asked along. She thanked him. I see nothing of concern here, but keep watching. Didn't know you had this capability.
> 
> So far, Jerry, things are looking pretty good. Lay low but keep your eyes open just in case.


Jerry --- I work in a large company as well and this happens alot. I get invited by women as well as men at the last minute because I wasn't on the original invite. Also alot of these lunch things happen after a late morning meeting -- and people who weren't invited to lunch originally are asked to go. No big deal here -- but just watch and observe -- and not get obsessed. You are doing everything you can -- be patient and I hope that this is all in your mind. Have a good night !!


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## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Yes, eat at 6:30pm, she starts work at 7:00am. "Oh BTW, I have been checking her sent emails. One shows to a coworker about lunch, it says "thanks for lunch today. It was a surprise and a treat. Since I was not on the invite list. " now this is a guy she works with everyday. I am not saying she is going from neighbor to a coworker but it just hit me as a bit strange wording but my frame of mind is still saying she is not being truthful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When you ask about her day I hope she tells you about lunch.

A counselor on the radio mentioned that women should not ask a husband about their day until after the husband has had at least a half hour to decompress. Also do not ask "how was your day?" as all you will get is an "It was ok". Questions have to be more specific such as "Any luck with project x or is so and so still giving you trouble?" Since I heard this I try to be more specific with my wife and can tell it works much better.


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry --- I work in a large company as well and this happens alot. I get invited by women as well as men at the last minute because I wasn't on the original invite. Also alot of these lunch things happen after a late morning meeting -- and people who weren't invited to lunch originally are asked to go. No big deal here -- but just watch and observe -- and not get obsessed. You are doing everything you can -- be patient and I hope that this is all in your mind. Have a good night !!


I know, it's taken me a few days to clear my head. Almost there...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

I would assume she has to get up about 5:00 am. That seems like if she is going to bed right after dinner thats still awfully early. Ceratainly limits time with you and the kids, no? Looks like a MC topic as well.


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I will, I can't screw this up like I screwed up the accusation. She is back and forth about MC but no doubt she will just try and go to the first one and have me go by myself after that.
> 
> GPS has been normal. Nothing on VAR, the neighbor guy is out of state for another 10 days for work according to his wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How did you find out he is out of state from his wife? Did you see her outside, call her, wife called -- just wondering. Not that it makes a difference how -- but can you some how some way have a conversation with neighbor wife and not be direct but have an innocent conversation that would include her husband and your wife. I don't want you to trigger on this -- and blow your cover -- but if you can remain cool and probe -- you have nothing to lose. I can't think of a way of going about doing this -- but maybe the folks on the forum may have an idea. Just a thought -- this may be stupid to bring it up -- since everything has been clean.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I would assume she has to get up about 5:00 am. That seems like if she is going to bed right after dinner thats still awfully early. Ceratainly limits time with you and the kids, no? Looks like a MC topic as well.


She gets up at 5:45...gets ready and out the door at 6:45. Dinner at 6:30pm then she usually goes upstairs and watches a few shows. She goes to bed around 9:30/10:00 pm. Myself, I go to bed about same time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I will, I can't screw this up like I screwed up the accusation. She is back and forth about MC but no doubt she will just try and go to the first one and have me go by myself after that.
> 
> GPS has been normal. Nothing on VAR, the neighbor guy is out of state for another 10 days for work according to his wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jerry -- you can't read her mind --so is it fair for you to say she will go to the 1st one -- they have you go alone. If that is indeed the case -- it is up to you to show/tell her how important going to a MC is to you. 

Remember -- talk and communicate every day -- about everything -- you, her, the kids, etc. BTW -- have you setup that date night yet for just the two of you ??


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> How did you find out he is out of state from his wife? Did you see her outside, call her, wife called -- just wondering. Not that it makes a difference how -- but can you some how some way have a conversation with neighbor wife and not be direct but have an innocent conversation that would include her husband and your wife. I don't want you to trigger on this -- and blow your cover -- but if you can remain cool and probe -- you have nothing to lose. I can't think of a way of going about doing this -- but maybe the folks on the forum may have an idea. Just a thought -- this may be stupid to bring it up -- since everything has been clean.


His wife was at bus stop, she told me this without me even asking. I won't say a word to his wife since my last talk with him was the one where I was cold to him for a week or so and when I pulled up next to him on the road he looked like he expected me to come out with what I suspect. That was a big red flag since I was watching his reaction very closely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BoomHower

Jerry

you are spending time, money, etc. why dont you ask your wife just to take poly exam.


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry -- you can't read her mind --so is it fair for you to say she will go to the 1st one -- they have you go alone. If that is indeed the case -- it is up to you to show/tell her how important going to a MC is to you.
> 
> Remember -- talk and communicate every day -- about everything -- you, her, the kids, etc. BTW -- have you setup that date night yet for just the two of you ??


She told me she may go to first one but probably not another. Having flowers delivered for mothers day from me and kids. Date night will be in 2 weeks. I will tell her I made reservations to a nice rest. key thing is I made them on my own and did not ask her first if she wanted me to make them. I just did it on my own...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

BoomHower said:


> Jerry
> 
> you are spending time, money, etc. why dont you ask your wife just to take poly exam.


Hmmm, that is a good idea but only if I get something on VAR that indicates some sort of proof. I will look like an idiot making her do that without proof. I already probably did damage accusing with no proof.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

I'm still on the fence about this cheating scenario. There are _some_ behaviors she is showing that may indicate something happened bewteen her and the POS neighbor, but I keep coming back to the idea that this is all a big power play in her mind.

You are asserting yourself. It scares her and excites her at the same time. She likes your new bod and the way you are carrying yourself, but at the same time your desire to reenter the workforce intimidates her. Once she loses her financial grip on you, you are free to divorce her, or worse, ignore her. 

She's acting no less insecure than a breadwinning husband would act when he sees his sweet little SAHM going back to school and reentering the labor market.


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> I'm still on the fence about this cheating scenario. There are _some_ behaviors she is showing that may indicate something happened bewteen her and the POS neighbor, but I keep coming back to the idea that this is all a big power play in her mind.
> 
> You are asserting yourself. It scares her and excites her at the same time. She likes your new bod and the way you are carrying yourself, but at the same time your desire to reenter the workforce intimidates her. Once she loses her financial grip on you, you are free to divorce her, or worse, ignore her.
> 
> She's acting no less insecure than a breadwinning husband would act when he sees his sweet little SAHM going back to school and reentering the labor market.



Yup, and tonight I will be telling her I went to my old work and talked to the president. Which I did. And also throw out there I may want to go to night school/college to maybe try something different. But after I ask how work went today for her...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> Yup, and tonight I will be telling her I went to my old work and talked to the president. Which I did. And also throw out there I may want to go to night school/college to maybe try something different. But after I ask how work went today for her...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tool and die makers are a rare breed brother. You sure you want to change now? I bet if you snuggled in to the right situation you could earn some serious bread.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> His wife was at bus stop, she told me this without me even asking. I won't say a word to his wife since my last talk with him was the one where I was cold to him for a week or so and when I pulled up next to him on the road he looked like he expected me to come out with what I suspect. That was a big red flag since I was watching his reaction very closely.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Was ther anything odd about how she reacted to you? Like maybe her husband had talked to her about you?

Is there anyone you know that could ask her if her husband had ever cheated?


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Tool and die makers are a rare breed brother. You sure you want to change now? I bet if you snuggled in to the right situation you could earn some serious bread.


They are, but since economy is still not booming it will take time for me to make real money. If the economy comes back I will be able to earn big money. My thought right now is for her to take me seriously. Whether its my old job or a new look on life by me...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> Yes, eat at 6:30pm, she starts work at 7:00am. "*Oh BTW, I have been checking her sent emails. One shows to a coworker about lunch, it says "thanks for lunch today. It was a surprise and a treat. Since I was not on the invite list. " *now this is a guy she works with everyday. I am not saying she is going from neighbor to a coworker but it just hit me as a bit strange wording but my frame of mind is still saying she is not being truthful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This could just be office politics.

Its a *****y world out there.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Was ther anything odd about how she reacted to you? Like maybe her husband had talked to her about you?
> 
> Is there anyone you know that could ask her if her husband had ever cheated?


Nope...she was just talking about regular things. And brought that up. 
And no, if I ask other neighbors they would no doubt bring me asking up at some point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

TorontoBoyWest said:


> This could just be office politics.
> 
> Its a *****y world out there.


I know...if she messes up I have no doubt the VAR will record it. It's like having another set of ears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

bandit.45 said:


> I'm still on the fence about this cheating scenario. There are _some_ behaviors she is showing that may indicate something happened bewteen her and the POS neighbor, but I keep coming back to the idea that this is all a big power play in her mind.
> 
> You are asserting yourself. It scares her and excites her at the same time. She likes your new bod and the way you are carrying yourself, but at the same time your desire to reenter the workforce intimidates her. Once she loses her financial grip on you, you are free to divorce her, or worse, ignore her.
> 
> She's acting no less insecure than a breadwinning husband would act when he sees his sweet little SAHM going back to school and reentering the labor market.


I agree with Bandit.

IMO something could have happened... maybe almost happened but stopped with POS, but I think if she was a serial you would have had alot more clues by now. Regardless of how well women generally hid infidelity.

I think she is just bitter cause her houseb!tch grew his balls back


----------



## jerry123

TorontoBoyWest said:


> I agree with Bandit.
> 
> IMO something could have happened... maybe almost happened but stopped with POS, but I think if she was a serial you would have had alot more clues by now. Regardless of how well women generally hid infidelity.
> 
> I think she is just bitter cause her houseb!tch grew his balls back


That's what I am leaning towards now that my mind has calmed down. Thing is, who knows how long she has felt that way. I could have been a sucker for years and not realized it. My fog has lifted, and she may be in hyper mode to try and juggle 2 lifestyles. But in the end everyone has a breaking point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> That's what I am leaning towards now that my mind has calmed down. Thing is, who knows how long she has felt that way. I could have been a sucker for years and not realized it. My fog has lifted, and she may be in hyper mode to try and juggle 2 lifestyles. But in the end everyone has a breaking point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She would have had to been a secret agent to lead two lifestyles for that long with you noticing nothing.

Regardless of how oblivious you were.

She would have messed up at least once.


----------



## keko

To the lunch, did she go with her car or someone else's?


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> To the lunch, did she go with her car or someone else's?


I will look again to see if the guy/ her CC someone on email.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

TorontoBoyWest said:


> She would have had to been a secret agent to lead two lifestyles for that long with you noticing nothing.
> 
> Regardless of how oblivious you were.
> 
> She would have messed up at least once.


At this point, thinking back the last 6-8 months the way she was treating me anything is possible. I am learning she is a very smart woman and her main smarts is mind games. By me turning a new leaf in myself it is something she is totally not in control of and did not expect. Wow, I just had a moment of complete control over myself and her actions to me in the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> At this point, thinking back the last 6-8 months the way she was treating me anything is possible. I am learning she is a very smart woman and her main smarts is mind games. By me turning a new leaf in myself it is something she is totally not in control of and did not expect. Wow, I just had a moment of complete control over myself and her actions to me in the past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ya. So re-read your post again in those terms.

Controling/mind games =/= infidelity 

Not to say absolutely never, but in your case the facts speak to maybe one time, maybe not.

And a rather large dose of Jerry got his balls back I am fvcked.


----------



## jerry123

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Ya. So re-read your post again in those terms.
> 
> Controling/mind games =/= infidelity
> 
> Not to say absolutely never, but in your case the facts speak to maybe one time, maybe not.
> 
> And a rather large dose of Jerry got his balls back I am fvcked.


Best post since I have joined TAM... I have had many people tell me how she has treated me in past. Only to brush it off as that is how she is, well I brought this up the other day and told her it is going to stop. Things are really coming to light lately....thanks to everyone's help here I am a better person than she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Best post since I have joined TAM... I have had many people tell me how she has treated me in past. Only to brush it off as that is how she is, well I brought this up the other day and told her it is going to stop. Things are really coming to light lately....thanks to everyone's help here I am a better person than she is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do think it's a good thing to be more assertive and to stick up for yourself. The point would be, to bring her down from a step above that she may have put herself on, so that she's at your level. But my concern is that at the same time, you can't be widening the gulf.

I feel like it's going to be an eternity before MC starts for you. And even then I don't see her cracking. And for all we know, there isn't anything more to it than you are wide apart.

Please don't take this the wrong way--but I feel like this is consuming you. Are you sure you're doing the 180? Living life to the fullest as your best self.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Best post since I have joined TAM... I have had many people tell me how she has treated me in past. Only to brush it off as that is how she is, well I brought this up the other day and told her it is going to stop. Things are really coming to light lately....thanks to everyone's help here I am a better person than she is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know about who the better person is, but I'm sure she has only treated you how you allowed her to treat you. Being a SAHD I think you have given upyour natural leadership/equal role in the marriage. Money is power.


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> I do think it's a good thing to be more assertive and to stick up for yourself. The point would be, to bring her down from a step above that she may have put herself on, so that she's at your level. But my concern is that at the same time, you can't be widening the gulf.
> 
> I feel like it's going to be an eternity before MC starts for you. And even then I don't see her cracking. And for all we know, there isn't anything more to it than you are wide apart.
> 
> Please don't take this the wrong way--but I feel like this is consuming you. Are you sure you're doing the 180? Living life to the fullest as your best self.


I have been hearing about the 180, please get me to the link of that. I can't seem to find it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

The Healing Heart: The 180


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> The Healing Heart: The 180


Read it and starting this at the moment....thanks!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

jerry123 said:


> She gets up at 5:45...gets ready and out the door at 6:45. Dinner at 6:30pm then she usually goes upstairs and watches a few shows. She goes to bed around 9:30/10:00 pm. Myself, I go to bed about same time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jerry, when do you teo actually spend time together?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

Date night should be a lot sooner than 2 weeks from now. Ideally you do a date every single week. Even if it is just lunch during the week. It doesn't have to cost any money. Go for a long slow walk in a wooded park for example. You two should be doing something alone just the two of you every week.


----------



## t_hopper_2012

Shaggy said:


> Jerry, when do you teo actually spend time together?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


... and when does she spend time with the kids (and you)? Weekends?


----------



## Chaparral

If you are planning ondoing the 180 it may very well end your marriage. It is designed to help you get your life back ontrack and move on from a bad relationship. If you go 180 on your wife I doubt your marriage will survive. Thats not what its for.


----------



## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> If you are planning ondoing the 180 it may very well end your marriage. It is designed to help you get your life back ontrack and move on from a bad relationship. If you go 180 on your wife I doubt your marriage will survive. Thats not what its for.


I mentioned the 180 more in the sense that it would take his mind off this endless dwelling on what might or might not be. Not to alienate her (you can already drive a truck in the space between them) but to stop spinning his wheels trying to guess what she's thinking and what her motives are with so little insight. Try to live in the moment a little more and enjoy life.


----------



## bandit.45

Jerry its too soon to do the 180. Hold off until things go south or if she says she wants out of the marriage. Right now she's at least somewhat receptive. The 180 is only if she completely checks out and divorce is immanent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity

For some reason I think her affair might have been in the past hence the lack of chatter from the VAR. I also think it might've taken place at work rather than with the neighbor.


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Jerry its too soon to do the 180. Hold off until things go south or if she says she wants out of the marriage. Right now she's at least somewhat receptive. The 180 is only if she completely checks out and divorce is immanent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh yes, I get the 180 when things are bleak. I am doing the 180 and not responding to her laying in bed all day like last Saturday. I still see her depressed some days. With her it's all about work. She is there like 10 hours a day. In meetings most of day. 
And no, there is no us time. Kids are always here. She does not like leaving them with friends or neighbors. We only go out to dinner maybe once every 2-3 months. I know now we both have communication problems. And it's not just me... I think the sex the other night was to try and shut me up. Well it's not going to happen. 
Def playing mind games with me in the last few weeks. Does she not see it affects our marriage when she is controlling...I sure do notice her change when I take the control back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Well, been in contact with MC for the last 2 days trying to figure out a day. MC only has 4 days she is there. Keep asking my wife if she could get home an hour early one day next week so we can go. Get same response from wife that she can't change her work schedule on that day. 
I am sick of waiting so i will just go alone i guess for the first one...

There is something going on in my wife head that i am trying to figure out. I really think she does not want to go because either the MC will pick up on something or my wife is taken back at the new me.
There has been no arguing since last tuesday when i accused. But, she just seems to be in another world. My mind is in a better place ...

I will be telling MC i accused my wife, i think this may help her pick up on any lies my wife may tell when we go together.


----------



## bandit.45

If you go together....

I dunno, this is a serious cold war going on between you two. I would back off on trying to get her to go to MC if she does not want to go. Even if you do get her to go, she will most likely have a bad attitude and will do it only to get you off her back -- not to improve the marriage. Both partners have to be invested 100% in MC or else you are wasting money. 

Take advantage of her insurance and go to IC. Quit asking her and go to improve yourself. Do a 180 "lite", concentrating on the parts of the 180 that focus on you transforming yourself into a better, more emotionally independent you. Go easy on the parts that deal with separating from her: that will kill the marriage for sure. Instead, use the 180 to become a self-validating and self contained man, to the point where if you do prove she has been unfaithful, you will have the mind-set to immediately dissolve the marriage with as little turmoil as possible. . 

Read and embrace the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" book and join that blog. Those are a fun group of guys who have learned to live with controlling wives just like yours. They can give you a lot of pointers on how to live for yourself and be a better man. 

Continue on with the job hunt, and don't take the first job that comes along. Wait for a good job that will pay you enough to support yourself in case your worst fears are realized and you do have to end the marriage. 
Keep working out, get buff, dress nicer, spend money on a good haircut... hell use your wife's insurance to get your teeth fixed! Do what you need to do to become as attractive as you can.

Maybe, just maybe, if your wife sees this transformation occur, her fear of losing you may override her stubbornness and she will give in and go to MC and start to pull her weight in the relationship. Right now it is a one-sided marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Hmmm, email to her during lunch about me going for first time to MC by myself and our comm. problem which we both have to stop denying goes unanswered. Looks like work is more important than our marriage...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

jerry123 said:


> Hmmm, email to her during lunch about me going for first time to MC by myself and our comm. problem which we both have to stop denying goes unanswered. Looks like work is more important than our marriage...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I often don't have time at work to reply to emails. Especially if I'm in a meeting and can't focus on it.


----------



## kenmoore14217

or........she's not at work


----------



## Chaparral

If my wife accused (did you actually accuse her of cheating?) me of cheating and then told me she was going to go get a job, also she was changing the whole dynamic of our relationship, I think my head would be spinning, affair or not. It would be like someone delivering several knockout punches, one right after another.

It seems like she is avoiding MC to avoid the whole issue. If you have to go alone, ask your counselor to give you a list of questions for her to answer. You have come to far tp let her off the hook.

Has her behavior changed? More/less loving? Anger? Apologies for any of the red flags?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> If my wife accused (did you actually accuse her of cheating?) me of cheating and then told me she was going to go get a job, also she was changing the whole dynamic of our relationship, I think my head would be spinning, affair or not. It would be like someone delivering several knockout punches, one right after another.
> 
> It seems like she is avoiding MC to avoid the whole issue. If you have to go alone, ask your counselor to give you a list of questions for her to answer. You have come to far tp let her off the hook.
> 
> Has her behavior changed? More/less loving? Anger? Apologies for any of the red flags?



I know, i have backed off a bit. I will just go to MC first. 

As for being more loving, i don't notice more or less. Had a talk yesterday with her about communication. One thing i told her that if i have a problem with her behavior toward me around people i will call her out on it. I used to just let things go and not want a confrontation. Not anymore....


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I know, i have backed off a bit. I will just go to MC first.
> 
> As for being more loving, i don't notice more or less. Had a talk yesterday with her about communication. One thing i told her that if i have a problem with her behavior toward me around people i will call her out on it. I used to just let things go and not want a confrontation. Not anymore....


That is a start (talking to each other) -- we will see what happens if/when she starts on you around people. That is on her now that you two have talked and you told her how you feel.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> That is a start (talking to each other) -- we will see what happens if/when she starts on you around people. That is on her now that you two have talked and you told her how you feel.


yes, also I am feeling better about myself. Read MMSG and will start "No more mr. nice guy this weekend."

I am amazed how women really view us.


----------



## jerry123

Update: Well, after reading MMSG and starting the MAP it has changed how she looks at me. I'm in great shape, being more Alpha, less Beta which for me is a big switch. 
Reading "No more mr. nice guy" now. (1/4 of the way through) and it sounds like it was written about me exclusively.

I start IC next week and wife said this morning she will go on a saturday with me once the MC has a free weekend appt.

My accusation of her and neighbor has not been brought up by either of us. Last few days it's been talk about us...

Sex for 1 hour last night, which she woke me up at 11:00PM to initiate it. I decided to implement being more dominant during that 1 hour. Spanking, a bit rough sex...but that is not what made her orgasm. It was me being gentle with her, touching her and slightly caressing her breast what got her off. The rough/spanking was after that. And to boot, her initiating for the last 2 times was right before menstrual and right after which surprised me since MMSG says this is the time a woman does not want sex. So it will be interesting in 14-15 days from now.

Thanks everyone for support and advice. It has helped me tremendously.


----------



## jh52

:smthumbup:


jerry123 said:


> Update: Well, after reading MMSG and starting the MAP it has changed how she looks at me. I'm in great shape, being more Alpha, less Beta which for me is a big switch.
> Reading "No more mr. nice guy" now. (1/4 of the way through) and it sounds like it was written about me exclusively.
> 
> I start IC next week and wife said this morning she will go on a saturday with me once the MC has a free weekend appt.
> 
> My accusation of her and neighbor has not been brought up by either of us. Last few days it's been talk about us...
> 
> Sex for 1 hour last night, which she woke me up at 11:00PM to initiate it. I decided to implement being more dominant during that 1 hour. Spanking, a bit rough sex...but that is not what made her orgasm. It was me being gentle with her, touching her and slightly caressing her breast what got her off. The rough/spanking was after that. And to boot, her initiating for the last 2 times was right before menstrual and right after which surprised me since MMSG says this is the time a woman does not want sex. So it will be interesting in 14-15 days from now.
> 
> Thanks everyone for support and advice. It has helped me tremendously.


:smthumbup:


----------



## lovelygirl

jerry123 said:


> this is the time a woman does not want sex. So it will be interesting in 14-15 days from now..


That's totally untrue. Before and after them women are more likely to have sex and are easily turned on.


----------



## Complexity

jerry123 said:


> yes, also I am feeling better about myself. Read MMSG and will start "No more mr. nice guy this weekend."
> 
> I am amazed how women really view us.


Amen. It's the strangest thing ever.


----------



## jerry123

lovelygirl said:


> That's totally untrue. Before and after them women are more likely to have sex and are easily turned on.


Hmmm...I guess Mr. Kay was wrong. Well, since he is a man i guess he is just going by what his wife's menstrual is and what she tells him.

But, from what i read its 14-15 days after the monthly thing...am i wrong or are women horny 24 days a month. LOL


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Hmmm...I guess Mr. Kay was wrong. Well, since he is a man i guess he is just going by what his wife's menstrual is and what she tells him.
> 
> But, from what i read its 14-15 days after the monthly thing...am i wrong or are women horny 24 days a month. LOL


Jerry, a woman's libido does increase around ovulation. At least, it does for me, I've noticed the pattern. Ovulation, however, doesn't happen as if it's on a clock, the hormones leading up to ovulation start gearing up for days before that until they reach a peak. And then they don't immediately subside.

But you know what, if your wife wants it all the time, I'd take that and run with it. Every book you're reading has lots of truth to it but you should be comparing the advice to your life to see if it works because not all of it is going to apply.


----------



## WhereAmI

jerry123 said:


> Hmmm...I guess Mr. Kay was wrong. Well, since he is a man i guess he is just going by what his wife's menstrual is and what she tells him.
> 
> But, from what i read its 14-15 days after the monthly thing...am i wrong or are women horny 24 days a month. LOL


He's right in general. The average date of ovulation is day 14 of a woman's cycle. Obviously women are all different, though. Some even ovulate more than once.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75

jerry123 said:


> And to boot, her initiating for the last 2 times was right before menstrual and right after which surprised me since MMSG says this is the time a woman does not want sex. So it will be interesting in 14-15 days from now.


My husband can easily tell you that I want it more in the few days leading up to my period and even right after... Heck, I want it DURING, but the whole blood/mess thing kinda holds us back lol. And yes, around 15 days after the start of a woman's period, she USUALLY ovulates... but not always. Sometimes it is a week after, sometimes it is a week before. And yes, the hormones surge, making her want sex more. But, like others have said, no two women are exactly alike.


----------



## warlock07

:scratchhead:

Women are so complex..


----------



## lovelygirl

warlock07 said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> Women are so complex..


Men are not less complex though.


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> Women are so complex..


Complex isn't the word, you're going to have to find a more complex word than complex. Maybe cccccooooommmmmppppplllllleeeeeeeeexxxxxxxxxx.


----------



## Chaparral

lovelygirl said:


> Men are not less complex though.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::biggrinangelA:


----------



## Complexity




----------



## Complexity

lovelygirl said:


> Men are not less complex though.


I think the most complicated thing about women is that they want a nice guy, but at the same time they don't want a nice guy..... or should I say, someone "too nice". So we essentially have to find a balance between being jerks to you so that you respect us but also being nice enough so you don't hate us. 

Do you think guys would ever complain if their wife was "too nice" to them.....


----------



## bandit.45

lovelygirl said:


> Men are not less complex though.


Not complex...just chronically dumb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

In many cases women's marital expectations exceed those of men. Not always but certainly enough times to be noticeable.


----------



## ing

Mens and Womens sexuality...









Men are really not complicated at all.


----------



## jerry123

ing said:


> Mens and Womens sexuality...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Men are really not complicated at all.


So true....

Half way through reading NMMNG, it is me to a tee.

Good mothers day with wife and kids. Had a flowers delivered to her and gave her "Fifty shades of Grey" as a gift today.
We have had sex 4 out of the last 7 days. 

Then she is reading "Grey" today, 100 or so pages in she hands the book to me and says "Wow, read this." It's a part where the woman is being told what to do by the guy and the guy is being very dominant... wow...Seems like she will really like that book. She can't put the book down. I will be reading it when she is done.

So, i will take clue from that and try handcuffs in the future. :smthumbup:

I meet with MC for IC friday....


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> So true....
> 
> Half way through reading NMMNG, it is me to a tee.
> 
> Good mothers day with wife and kids. Had a flowers delivered to her and gave her "Fifty shades of Grey" as a gift today.
> We have had sex 4 out of the last 7 days.
> 
> Then she is reading "Grey" today, 100 or so pages in she hands the book to me and says "Wow, read this." It's a part where the woman is being told what to do by the guy and the guy is being very dominant... wow...Seems like she will really like that book. She can't put the book down. I will be reading it when she is done.
> 
> So, i will take clue from that and try handcuffs in the future. :smthumbup:
> 
> I meet with MC for IC friday....


My wife just read that book and showed me passages as well. It usually led to some immediate fun. It's the next book I'm going to read...although it's definitely geared toward the female audience.


----------



## Remains

Complexity said:


> I think the most complicated thing about women is that they want a nice guy, but at the same time they don't want a nice guy..... or should I say, someone "too nice". So we essentially have to find a balance between being jerks to you so that you respect us but also being nice enough so you don't hate us.
> 
> Do you think guys would ever complain if their wife was "too nice" to them.....


No no no no no....why do men think women are so complicated?!! We are not. The nice, is that we want thoughtful, sensitive, caring, helpful. The not overly nice is that we don't want a doormat. Someone who is all the positives but firm in his thoughts and opinions. Someone who will stand up for himself.

Recognise this men? Is that what you like in a woman too? Thoughtful, helpful, caring, considerate, sensitive. Do you want a doormat and a woman whose mind is your mind and not her own? And yes, we like a man who is manly. Just as you like a woman who is womanly.

And when a man meets our needs we find him devastatingly attractive and want to rip his clothes off him at any given opportunity. We will do anything for him in and out of the bedroom. And vise-versa. And thus his needs are met too! A good 2-way relationship based on pretty much the same basic things.

Ideal scenario notwithstanding medical conditions


----------



## SadSamIAm

Remains said:


> No no no no no....why do men think women are so complicated?!! We are not. The nice, is that we want thoughtful, sensitive, caring, helpful. The not overly nice is that we don't want a doormat. Someone who is all the positives but firm in his thoughts and opinions. Someone who will stand up for himself.
> 
> Recognise this men? Is that what you like in a woman too? Thoughtful, helpful, caring, considerate, sensitive. Do you want a doormat and a woman whose mind is your mind and not her own? And yes, we like a man who is manly. Just as you like a woman who is womanly.
> 
> And when a man meets our needs we find him devastatingly attractive and want to rip his clothes off him at any given opportunity. We will do anything for him in and out of the bedroom. And vise-versa. And thus his needs are met too! A good 2-way relationship based on pretty much the same basic things.
> 
> Ideal scenario notwithstanding medical conditions


Is this a movie or a book? 

Sounds like a great plot. Wish I had an imagination that could think up such a block buster!


----------



## Remains

SadSamIAm said:


> Is this a movie or a book?
> 
> Sounds like a great plot. Wish I had an imagination that could think up such a block buster!


Am I really that off the mark sad Sam? Is that not the essence of good relationships and what both sexes want? Or am I in cloud cuckoo? So...where have I gone so wrong? What are the dynamics of a good relationship and the desires of the sexes?


----------



## SadSamIAm

You are correct. That is what people want. They want respect. They want someone to care about their needs and they want to meet all the needs of their spouse.

What you describe is what people strive for. 

Just at my point right now ..... it seems like fiction.


----------



## warlock07

Remains said:


> No no no no no....why do men think women are so complicated?!! We are not. The nice, is that we want thoughtful, sensitive, caring, helpful. The not overly nice is that we don't want a doormat. Someone who is all the positives but firm in his thoughts and opinions. Someone who will stand up for himself.
> 
> Recognise this men? Is that what you like in a woman too? Thoughtful, helpful, caring, considerate, sensitive. Do you want a doormat and a woman whose mind is your mind and not her own? And yes, we like a man who is manly. Just as you like a woman who is womanly.
> 
> And when a man meets our needs we find him devastatingly attractive and want to rip his clothes off him at any given opportunity. We will do anything for him in and out of the bedroom. And vise-versa. And thus his needs are met too! A good 2-way relationship based on pretty much the same basic things.
> 
> Ideal scenario notwithstanding medical conditions



This was so confusing :scratchhead:


----------



## jh52

Good luck in therapy tomorrow !!


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Good luck in therapy tomorrow !!


Thanks...looking forward to it.

My mind has been back where it should be. Finished MMSG and NMMNG books. 

Took 3 days for her to look at me in a different way. Telling her i am going back to work, i am not going to take her belittling me in front of kids and family, i am going to start doing things i want to do. 

Sex has been best in 10 years, got some new toys for us and she finished "50 shades of grey". Turns out she likes me dominating her in bed and out of bed. Not in a mean way, but just letting her know i won't be a doormat.

She even wants me to plan a trip to NYC for fathers day weekend just the two of us. And one of the places she wants to go is a strip joint so i can get a lap dance and her to watch.:smthumbup:

I can take this as guilt from her "maybe" doing something with the neighbor or that she loves the new "me". Right now i am thinking its the latter but i am still watchhfull with VAR/GPS.


----------



## iheartlife

are you going all DailyGrind on us?

I am glad to hear this update.

You can't monitor her forever--at some point you're going to need a plan for phasing that out and accepting the past whatever it may be, if nothing more is revealed.


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> are you going all DailyGrind on us?
> 
> I am glad to hear this update.
> 
> You can't monitor her forever--at some point you're going to need a plan for phasing that out and accepting the past whatever it may be, if nothing more is revealed.


I know...this neighbor has been away for work and will return Sunday. So i have let off a bit on searching for clues but next week i will have my eyes and ears open.

Dailygrind? meaning sex every day?


----------



## Cubby

jerry123 said:


> I know...this neighbor has been away for work and will return Sunday. So i have let off a bit on searching for clues but next week i will have my eyes and ears open.
> 
> Dailygrind? meaning sex every day?


No, DailyGrind is a poster here who was betrayed but now he and his wife have a successful recovery. They seem very happy now.


----------



## jerry123

Oh, I still have no proof of being betrayed. Just a bunch of red flags. If she is trying to make me stop looking for clues it won't work but I am not letting it eat at me everyday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cubby

jerry123 said:


> Oh, I still have no proof of being betrayed. Just a bunch of red flags. If she is trying to make me stop looking for clues it won't work but I am not letting it eat at me everyday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Whether or not she cheated, at least by spending time on this forum and getting outstanding advice, you've learned so much. You're now so much more adept at reading clues and you have a much greater understanding of what makes you attractive to your wife. It's a great feeling to know what you know. (I love this forum!)


----------



## jerry123

Cubby said:


> Whether or not she cheated, at least by spending time on this forum and getting outstanding advice, you've learned so much. You're now so much more adept at reading clues and you have a much greater understanding of what makes you attractive to your wife. It's a great feeling to know what you know. (I love this forum!)


yes, i am really glad i found this site....and the book "no more mr nice guy" was me to a tee...should have read it long ago.


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> yes, i am really glad i found this site....and the book "no more mr nice guy" was me to a tee...should have read it long ago.


That book should be required for every male in America. Even though I am not a "Nice Guy" in the sense that the book described it, I have alot of good friends who are, and I recommended it to them. One of my buddies turned his failing marriage completely around using the steps in that book. His wife worships him now. 

For myself I found alot of good, usable info in there.


----------



## PHTlump

jerry123 said:


> Dailygrind? meaning sex every day?


Dailygrind is another poster who started an epic thread not long ago. He and his wife were distant. I think she was a SAHM. And she started into a mild EA with a neighbor. Dailygrind upped the alpha and put his foot down, she rebelled, and they appeared headed for divorce. At some point after her telling him that it was over, she came around. Now they're doing it like bunnies.

So, happy endings are possible when you get the alpha/beta mix right.


----------



## jerry123

Another book i started to read is "Women's infidelity".

Sad to say, it describes my wife a lot in that book. I am not sitting here sad but a bit happy to have the knowledge to keep my eyes/ears open. If she did have just 1 encounter with this neighbor like i suspect (which would account for nothing on VAR/GPS now) then only she can confess in the future.

Right now if they are still having flings every few months it will be harder for me to find out. But at least i have those 2 monitoring devices. I truly believe she will mess up one day if it is still going on.

All i can do is enjoy what is happening now with my wife and i and just be watchful...


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Another book i started to read is "Women's infidelity".
> 
> Sad to say, it describes my wife a lot in that book. I am not sitting here sad but a bit happy to have the knowledge to keep my eyes/ears open. If she did have just 1 encounter with this neighbor like i suspect (which would account for nothing on VAR/GPS now) then only she can confess in the future.
> 
> Right now if they are still having flings every few months it will be harder for me to find out. But at least i have those 2 monitoring devices. I truly believe she will mess up one day if it is still going on.
> 
> All i can do is enjoy what is happening now with my wife and i and just be watchful...


I know you are going to IC tomorrow by yourself. She at one time said she would go to MC if you can get appointment on weekends. Where does MC for both of you stand now ??


----------



## happyman64

Jerry,

Good for you. You can let up and be ver watchful.

I hope i see you in NYCity. If you need a list of good strip clubs just let me know.

I hope she stipulated that she wants a woman and not a man to do that lap dance for her, i mean you? Ah right?? LOL!!!

Anyway, keep putting smiles on your face and please loosen the brakes on your neighbors tractor. He sounds like a d bag.....

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Yes, MC does do weekends. I have not bugged the wife to go anymore. If MC says she would like my wife to attend I will just ask her to come. Right now my wife is loving the new me and may think her or myself does not need to go. But it can only help at this point. 

I will be bringing up my accusation of my wife possibly cheating to MC. And will tell her my red flags and wife's reaction to me accusing her. If MC is good at what she does, she will discuss that when both of us are there and gauge wife's body language/thoughts to see if my gut feeling is true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Jerry,
> 
> Good for you. You can let up and be ver watchful.
> 
> I hope i see you in NYCity. If you need a list of good strip clubs just let me know.
> 
> I hope she stipulated that she wants a woman and not a man to do that lap dance for her, i mean you? Ah right?? LOL!!!
> 
> Anyway, keep putting smiles on your face and please loosen the brakes on your neighbors tractor. He sounds like a d bag.....
> 
> HM64
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, private message me strip clubs or just post here if u like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Thanks...looking forward to it.
> 
> My mind has been back where it should be. Finished MMSG and NMMNG books.
> 
> Took 3 days for her to look at me in a different way. Telling her i am going back to work, i am not going to take her belittling me in front of kids and family, i am going to start doing things i want to do.
> 
> Sex has been best in 10 years, got some new toys for us and she finished "50 shades of grey". Turns out she likes me dominating her in bed and out of bed. Not in a mean way, but just letting her know i won't be a doormat.
> 
> She even wants me to plan a trip to NYC for fathers day weekend just the two of us. And one of the places she wants to go is a strip joint so i can get a lap dance and her to watch.:smthumbup:
> 
> I can take this as guilt from her "maybe" doing something with the neighbor or that she loves the new "me". Right now i am thinking its the latter but i am still watchhfull with VAR/GPS.


Bravo clap clap clap bravo

Great news

I would forego the strip joint however. After reading so much here, I would not upset the apple cart by going down a slippery s!ut..........I mean slope.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Bravo clap clap clap bravo
> 
> Great news
> 
> I would forego the strip joint however. After reading so much here, I would not upset the apple cart by going down a slippery s!ut..........I mean slope.


She suggested strip clubs...we actually went to one in Vegas in Feb. and wanted me to get a lap dance and she just wanted to watch.


----------



## cledus_snow

sounds like your wife is a bit of a "closet freak." 

hopefully she wasn't _freaking_ like this with the neighbor.


----------



## jerry123

cledus_snow said:


> sounds like your wife is a bit of a "closet freak."
> 
> hopefully she wasn't _freaking_ like this with the neighbor.


I know...going to IC now. Should be interesting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

cledus_snow said:


> sounds like your wife is a bit of a "closet freak."
> 
> hopefully she wasn't _freaking_ like this with the neighbor.


:iagree:

Not that there is anything wrong with being a closet freak...it does make you wonder about what she was capable of. Jerry is doing everything right though. Just stay the course.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> She suggested strip clubs...we actually went to one in Vegas in Feb. and wanted me to get a lap dance and she just wanted to watch.


I understood that, but its still a can of worms. That kind of fantasy has so many pitfalls its just not worth going there.


----------



## jerry123

IC went well, told MC all about accusation with neighbor. Told her red flags...
MC is worried there may be a EA going on or went on in past. She def thinks this guy is a dirt bag and needs an ego boost around women. She wants me to focus on what i would do if i found out and what action in my marriage would i take. Thinks that will relieve anxiety a bit. 

Most importantly right now she thinks my wife is more worried about work than her family. So she wants me to work on getting her to be more involved with kids. 

Next session is just me (MC wanted this) but i can't wait to have her go and ask my wife to talk about my thoughts on neighbor.


----------



## warlock07

> Most importantly right now she thinks my wife is more worried about work than her family. So she wants me to work on getting her to be more involved with kids.


That is a very good observation


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> That is a very good observation


yes...and i do think my wife will be pushing on not going to MC in future since i know MC will be asking some tough questions about a possible EA.

I also won't be discussing much about my IC with my wife, she may ask what i talked about with her but i won't give her the upper hand in knowing i discussed possible affair. I want the MC to come out with it while she is there.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> IC went well, told MC all about accusation with neighbor. Told her red flags...
> MC is worried there may be a EA going on or went on in past. She def thinks this guy is a dirt bag and needs an ego boost around women. She wants me to focus on what i would do if i found out and what action in my marriage would i take. Thinks that will relieve anxiety a bit.
> 
> Most importantly right now she thinks my wife is more worried about work than her family. So she wants me to work on getting her to be more involved with kids.
> 
> Next session is just me (MC wanted this) but i can't wait to have her go and ask my wife to talk about my thoughts on neighbor.


Glad the MC went well. Sounds like you like person you picked. Work on being a new/better Jerry and someone your wife would be crazy to leave. I have not seen anything coming from the VAR in the car and at home -- so that would be good. The "jerk" neighbor comes back soon -- so just watch and observe.

IMO -- I think you mentioned that your wife is a high level VP in a big insurance company. Being in the corporate myself -- I know the pressures a job can take -- and finding the balance of a work and family. Plus she had you to count on as the SAHD -- which is now coming to and end -- so that will force you both to find a balance of work and family. Take care !!


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Glad the MC went well. Sounds like you like person you picked. Work on being a new/better Jerry and someone your wife would be crazy to leave. I have not seen anything coming from the VAR in the car and at home -- so that would be good. The "jerk" neighbor comes back soon -- so just watch and observe.
> 
> IMO -- I think you mentioned that your wife is a high level VP in a big insurance company. Being in the corporate myself -- I know the pressures a job can take -- and finding the balance of a work and family. Plus she had you to count on as the SAHD -- which is now coming to and end -- so that will force you both to find a balance of work and family. Take care !!


VAR is showing nothing but this neighbor has been gone on work related stuff for 2 weeks. He comes back sunday so will keep up with VAR next week.

Yes, balance is the answer according to MC. She mostly listened to me but did say keep up with the NMMNG thing.
She seems very nice and comfortable to talk to.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> VAR is showing nothing but this neighbor has been gone on work related stuff for 2 weeks. He comes back sunday so will keep up with VAR next week.
> 
> Yes, balance is the answer according to MC. She mostly listened to me but did say keep up with the NMMNG thing.
> She seems very nice and comfortable to talk to.


I doubt there is an affair going on. If there was there would still be at least "I miss you" messages going on. She may have a burner phone at work or use work phones etc.

Whenever I was around OM I would be exuding self confidence and secret knowledge to the point of being intimidating.

have you talked to your circle of friends about how they felt about OM, not about with your wife, but in general. They may know somehting that is being kept from you.


----------



## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> Whenever I was around OM I would be exuding self confidence and secret knowledge to the point of being intimidating.


Yeah, practice _your_ smirk in the mirror.


----------



## warlock07

If she wouldn't confess to jerry, why would she confess to the Counselor?


----------



## Chaparral

Because of the counselors mojo of course.


----------



## Gabriel

warlock07 said:


> If she wouldn't confess to jerry, why would she confess to the Counselor?


Because the counselor is there as a buffer to deal with the immediate aftermath.


----------



## cledus_snow

i don't think she'll spill the beans to counselor, either.

if there was an inappropriate relationship- with neighbor, or anyone else for that matter -it looks like she's gonna keep it to herself, unless she gets caught.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I doubt there is an affair going on. If there was there would still be at least "I miss you" messages going on. She may have a burner phone at work or use work phones etc.
> 
> Whenever I was around OM I would be exuding self confidence and secret knowledge to the point of being intimidating.
> 
> have you talked to your circle of friends about how they felt about OM, not about with your wife, but in general. They may know somehting that is being kept from you.


Have confided in a friend a few houses down, he knows how this guy acts and stays away from him.

I am really interested in the thread here on "Did anyone see the signs coming?" Sad thing is, the signs mentioned by a bunch of BS are dead on to what my wife does. 
It's either she is so married to work right now or another guy is in the picture.
I have wrote here that after i told her about the new "me" and accused her of infidelity she has changed (more sex/less demanding) but i come to realize something still is on her mind. 
I will def get her to MC with me in a few weeks...


----------



## Humble Pie

i know people have suggested it already, but have you dug deeper into the option of an affair at her work (co-worker)


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> Have confided in a friend a few houses down, he knows how this guy acts and stays away from him.
> 
> I am really interested in the thread here on "Did anyone see the signs coming?" Sad thing is, the signs mentioned by a bunch of BS are dead on to what my wife does.
> It's either she is so married to work right now or another guy is in the picture.
> I have wrote here that after i told her about the new "me" and accused her of infidelity she has changed (more sex/less demanding) but i come to realize something still is on her mind.
> I will def get her to MC with me in a few weeks...


Jerry,
I think getting her to mc is wise. you know something is "0ff" with her.

Work on you but stay vigilant.

Trust your gut buddy....

HM64


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Have confided in a friend a few houses down, he knows how this guy acts and stays away from him.
> 
> I am really interested in the thread here on "Did anyone see the signs coming?" Sad thing is, the signs mentioned by a bunch of BS are dead on to what my wife does.
> It's either she is so married to work right now or another guy is in the picture.
> I have wrote here that after i told her about the new "me" and accused her of infidelity she has changed (more sex/less demanding) but i come to realize something still is on her mind.
> I will def get her to MC with me in a few weeks...


Hi Jerry. In going back on your thread - the MC also thinks that she may have or is having an EA. She wanted you to focus on what you would do if you found out and what action in your marriage would you take. She thinks that will relieve your anxiety a bit. 

MC also said that right now she thinks your wife is more worried about work than her family. So she wants you to work on getting her to be more involved with kids. 

I hope your neighbor doesn't say anything to his wife -- about your
suspicions. You must have felt you could trust this guy. Having told your neighbor has your anxiety level changed?

Also as my observation -- you are more aware and keen on your wife's words and actions now. Could her "something" on her mind always have been there -- but now the new you is more aware?

Did you share with her in a broad sense what the MC and you talked about? Especially having her get more involved with the family. Not so much the EA.

You have a party next week with the neighbor guy -- maybe you should change things up. You said the neighbor you confided in stays away from jerk neighbor -- does that mean him and his wife don't attend these parties ? If yes -- maybe tell your wife you really don't want to go to this party -- and don't go -- and then watch her reaction and see if she insists on going.

This week the scum bag is back -- so VAR/GPS is in place -- Monday or Tuesday would be when I would expect something to happen.

You guys are going to NYC in a couple of weeks -- maybe that would be the time to try a heart to heart talk if VAR proves nothing.

Just a question -- have you thought what you would do if your wife did indeed have or is having either an EA or PA?

Does you wife travel for work -- and has or had an opportunity to cheat ?

I think you said her schedule is really consistant in that she leaves the same time and gets home the same time from work everyday. Is that correct ?? If so -- then the only time at work would be during business trips or during the business day or at lunch. 

Does she disappear for a couple of hours on the weekend? 


BTW -- I think you stated in an earlier POST that your wife is 42 -- but you told your kids she looks like 21. Do you think she is at that stage of life where she has lived her first half of life -- and is thinking about what she sees/wants to have for her 2nd half. For lack of a better word could she be going through a mid life crisiss -- and loves the attention of another man (scum bag) because it shows her she is still attractive to men -- other than her husband ??

Everything is coming back clean on VAR and GPS -- but I also hate that your gut is telling you something else.

I threw alot out for you to think about and not necessarily to reply with a response.

Have a great Sunday with the wife and kids !!


----------



## Chaparral

How do you mean "off with her" ? Do you think she is acting guilty? Hiding something? Insincere? Sorry to hear this. Does she just act wary around you? Could she be worrying about what you are doing?

A normal woman should not offer to let another woman give him a lap dance. I think there is an ulterior motive for this. Like she is wanting to have you do something with another woman. I asked my wife and she doesn't understand a normal woman wanting to do this either. She even suggested your wife may want a three way.

Whatever, for me her wanting to see you getting off with another woman is a gigantic red alert. She could also hold it over your head.


----------



## Chaparral

It may be time to look into a pocket VAR disguised as a pen. Anyone have experience with those? This brings back the birthday singing incident.


----------



## jh52

chapparal said:


> How do you mean "off with her" ? Do you think she is acting guilty? Hiding something? Insincere? Sorry to hear this. Does she just act wary around you? Could she be worrying about what you are doing?
> 
> A normal woman should not offer to let another woman give him a lap dance. I think there is an ulterior motive for this. Like she is wanting to have you do something with another woman. I asked my wife and she doesn't understand a normal woman wanting to do this either. She even suggested your wife may want a three way.
> 
> Whatever, for me her wanting to see you getting off with another woman is a gigantic red alert. She could also hold it over your head.


I think the lap dance is nothing new. In reading the thread -- they did the strip club/lap dance thing is Vegas this past February.


----------



## Chaparral

jh52 said:


> I think the lap dance is nothing new. In reading the thread -- they did the strip club/lap dance thing is Vegas this past February.


That doesn't negate what I'm thinking, just adds to it. A good wife should be too jealous for that kind of thing. As a matter of fact, the way she had been treating Jerry, its like throwing a dog a bone.


----------



## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> How do you mean "off with her" ? Do you think she is acting guilty? Hiding something? Insincere? Sorry to hear this. Does she just act wary around you? Could she be worrying about what you are doing?
> 
> A normal woman should not offer to let another woman give him a lap dance. I think there is an ulterior motive for this. Like she is wanting to have you do something with another woman. I asked my wife and she doesn't understand a normal woman wanting to do this either. She even suggested your wife may want a three way.
> 
> Whatever, for me her wanting to see you getting off with another woman is a gigantic red alert. She could also hold it over your head.


Hmmm, I have to agree with chap about this.


----------



## jh52

chapparal said:


> That doesn't negate what I'm thinking, just adds to it. A good wife should be too jealous for that kind of thing. As a matter of fact, the way she had been treating Jerry, its like throwing a dog a bone.


Not saying he should negate it -- but it is not something new for the June trip.

Jerry -- question for you. Was February 2012 the 1st time she wanted to go to the strip club and watch you get a lap dance ??


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Not saying he should negate it -- but it is not something new for the June trip.
> 
> Jerry -- question for you. Was February 2012 the 1st time she wanted to go to the strip club and watch you get a lap dance ??


Yes, it was. Which got me thinking she is feeling guilty and wanted this lap dance as a way of justifying her possible A
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Yes, it was. Which got me thinking she is feeling guilty and wanted this lap dance as a way of justifying her possible A
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's why I asked - Another RED flag !! especially with your RED flags from November and December.

In normal converstation - tell her you have picked out the strip show place in NY for the trip in June. In the course of that conversation -- I would ask her why in February see wanted to see you getting a lap dance and observe her carefully. Don't accuse her of anything --- just ask. If she says anthing -- say that was the 1st time you wanted to watch. At least she knows that things still are not right with you and there is something on your mind. Let her have some suspense in her life about you.

In February -- was that the 1st strip place you went to as a couple -- or have you two visited strip places before minus the lap dance ??

I am really jumping here -- but you said your wife has opened up after reading the 50 shades of gray book -- wants to be dominated while still being gentile -- is it possible that her fantasy is to have a 3some with another woman ?? Don't know if you want to approach this or how -- but something has change with her sexual habits recently as you have shared.

God -- I hope I am way off base here and she has never had a EA or PA -- just that you two are communicating better and she is telling you what she likes/wants.


----------



## Gabriel

chapparal said:


> How do you mean "off with her" ? Do you think she is acting guilty? Hiding something? Insincere? Sorry to hear this. Does she just act wary around you? Could she be worrying about what you are doing?
> 
> A normal woman should not offer to let another woman give him a lap dance. I think there is an ulterior motive for this. Like she is wanting to have you do something with another woman. I asked my wife and she doesn't understand a normal woman wanting to do this either. She even suggested your wife may want a three way.
> 
> Whatever, for me her wanting to see you getting off with another woman is a gigantic red alert. She could also hold it over your head.


Once again, Chap is very insightful here. I could see her saying, "Well, YOU had the lap dance, REMEMBER?!"


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Once again, Chap is very insightful here. I could see her saying, "Well, YOU had the lap dance, REMEMBER?!"


OMG, that is what she brings up all the time after the vegas trip. She calls it "One word" which means lap dance and says it to me when we start to argue about random things.

I just thought about it and i'm thinking what a Biach, she is trying to control me with the vegas lap dance and justify a possible EA/PA.

I have a totally clear head now after IC, more focused on keeping the change in myself and asserting what NMMNG book is all about. VAR/GPS may prove something in future.

It's taking a lot of energy keeping the focus of her slipping back in to her control freak mode, then me doing NMMNG thing. Why can't she just STFU and enjoy things?!?!?

Today she tried to be controlling, telling me to only mow front lawn while her parents visited and said it would be rude to do lawn while we all just sat on back deck....I mowed the WHOLE damn lawn just for spite!!


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> That's why I asked - Another RED flag !! especially with your RED flags from November and December.
> 
> In normal converstation - tell her you have picked out the strip show place in NY for the trip in June. In the course of that conversation -- I would ask her why in February see wanted to see you getting a lap dance and observe her carefully. Don't accuse her of anything --- just ask. If she says anthing -- say that was the 1st time you wanted to watch. At least she knows that things still are not right with you and there is something on your mind. Let her have some suspense in her life about you.
> 
> In February -- was that the 1st strip place you went to as a couple -- or have you two visited strip places before minus the lap dance ??
> 
> I am really jumping here -- but you said your wife has opened up after reading the 50 shades of gray book -- wants to be dominated while still being gentile -- is it possible that her fantasy is to have a 3some with another woman ?? Don't know if you want to approach this or how -- but something has change with her sexual habits recently as you have shared.
> 
> God -- I hope I am way off base here and she has never had a EA or PA -- just that you two are communicating better and she is telling you what she likes/wants.



Yes, she has shown an interest in some kind of 3 some
(2 girls/and me) but NEVER actually said it. I am reaching but she may be at a point in her life that sex and fantasies are really coming in to her mind. That may be a good thing but also a bad thing...

So sick of these mind games with her...wish she would just be a wife to me!!!


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> OMG, that is what she brings up all the time after the vegas trip. She calls it "One word" which means lap dance and says it to me when we start to argue about random things.
> 
> I just thought about it and i'm thinking what a Biach, she is trying to control me with the vegas lap dance and justify a possible EA/PA.
> 
> I have a totally clear head now after IC, more focused on keeping the change in myself and asserting what NMMNG book is all about. VAR/GPS may prove something in future.
> 
> It's taking a lot of energy keeping the focus of her slipping back in to her control freak mode, then me doing NMMNG thing. Why can't she just STFU and enjoy things?!?!?
> 
> Today she tried to be controlling, telling me to only mow front lawn while her parents visited and said it would be rude to do lawn while we all just sat on back deck....I mowed the WHOLE damn lawn just for spite!!


IMO you were rude with her parents being there. You have to learn when to pick your battles -- I think this was not one to show the new Jerry. Just sounds like a pissed off Jerry !! You could have cut the rest of the grass another time. It's not like the grass is going anywhere.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> IMO you were rude with her parents being there. You have to learn when to pick your battles -- I think this was not one to show the new Jerry. Just sounds like a pissed off Jerry !!


Yeah!!! after the way she said it in front of them. Biach attitude and telling me to hurry up and cook on grill, after coaching my daughters softball game then coming home and her expecting me to get the cookout going all by myself. 

I was pissed, same old, same old with her when family/friends are around. Ordering me to do things in front of them. 

It so sucks for me to stand up for myself EVERYTIME and that's what shuts her up. I could have easily stuck my tail between my legs and bowed to her commands but not any more!!!!!!!


----------



## keko

Jerry, can you check her pay stubs to see if she had any work day off, from november till now? Keep checking her whereabouts during lunch break or even squeeze in a VAR in her purse.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> IMO you were rude with her parents being there. You have to learn when to pick your battles -- I think this was not one to show the new Jerry. Just sounds like a pissed off Jerry !! You could have cut the rest of the grass another time. It's not like the grass is going anywhere.


I did the grass now since it will be raining here for the next 3 days. 

Seriously, it's just an energy draining experience with this woman. 2 weeks she is fine then the weekend it's back to same old.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Yeah!!! after the way she said it in front of them. Biach attitude and telling me to hurry up and cook on grill, after coaching my daughters softball game then coming home and her expecting me to get the cookout going all by myself.
> 
> I was pissed, same old, same old with her when family/friends are around. Ordering me to do things in front of them.
> 
> It so sucks for me to stand up for myself EVERYTIME and that's what shuts her up. I could have easily stuck my tail between my legs and bowed to her commands but not any more!!!!!!!


IMO -- It's time to call her out on this tonight when you guys are alone. She said she would try -- but hasn't according to what you wrote. Tell her this is the reason she needs to get to MC ASAP -- before the situation in the marriage gets out of hand.
Don't back down now -- you have a perfect example of exactly what you talked about with her.

BTW -- was she at the game with you and your girls ?


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Jerry, can you check her pay stubs to see if she had any work day off, from november till now? Keep checking her whereabouts during lunch break or even squeeze in a VAR in her purse.


Salary pay....Can't put VAR in purse. Don't worry, something tells me the next few weeks will be a interesting VAR listen...


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> IMO -- It's time to call her out on this tonight when you guys are alone. She said she would try -- but hasn't according to what you wrote. Tell her this is the reason she needs to get to MC ASAP -- before the situation in the marriage gets out of hand.
> Don't back down now -- you have a perfect example of exactly what you talked about with her.
> 
> BTW -- was she at the game with you and your girls ?


I will...

Yes, she was. And even tried to tell me how to coach the girls in front of a few parents. Shot her down very fast on that!!!


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> Salary pay....Can't put VAR in purse. Don't worry, something tells me the next few weeks will be a interesting VAR listen...


New work schedule? Travel?


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I did the grass now since it will be raining here for the next 3 days.
> 
> Seriously, it's just an energy draining experience with this woman. 2 weeks she is fine then the weekend it's back to same old.


Jerry do you have VAR in the house in the room she talks on the poine ? I asked about her attending the game -- because I don't want to add to your suspicion -- but the scum bag was gone for 2 weeks and got back today. Could she had called him today while you were coaching the game -- and thus the bi-ch attitude when you got back ?? Just wondering !!!


----------



## bandit.45

jh52 said:


> Jerry do you have VAR in the house in the room she talks on the poine ? I asked about her attending the game -- because I don't want to add to your suspicion -- but the scum bag was gone for 2 weeks and got back today. Could she had called him today while you were coaching the game -- and thus the bi-ch attitude when you got back ?? Just wondering !!!


Good catch. This is possible.


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> New work schedule? Travel?


No new work schedule, travel very rarely.


----------



## jh52

jh52 said:


> Jerry do you have VAR in the house in the room she talks on the poine ? I asked about her attending the game -- because I don't want to add to your suspicion -- but the scum bag was gone for 2 weeks and got back today. Could she had called him today while you were coaching the game -- and thus the bi-ch attitude when you got back ?? Just wondering !!!


Sounds like no call today -- but your wife definitely has people skills issues with you. Sorry to make a joke but hope you are calm. Keep pushing back -- don't lay down and accept this dictator relationship she is asserting on you. Stress the MC -- as it appears you are feed up and had enough. She has to change or otherwise whether she had/has an affair -- you may look to just get out of this marriage at some point in time.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry do you have VAR in the house in the room she talks on the poine ? I asked about her attending the game -- because I don't want to add to your suspicion -- but the scum bag was gone for 2 weeks and got back today. Could she had called him today while you were coaching the game -- and thus the bi-ch attitude when you got back ?? Just wondering !!!


hmmm, not called but maybe email. I checked her text/phone contacts and he is not on there. But still trying to figure out email contacts.


----------



## Will_Kane

*same old, same old with her when family/friends are around. Ordering me to do things in front of them. *

There are many ways to handle this. I don't think you handled it effectively. Don't do things because she told you to. Don't do things to spite her. Be relaxed and be yourself. When she orders you, don't let it bother you. Ignore her comments and act as if she didn't say anything. Engage MIL and FIL in conversation. If she starts ordering you to get the cookout started now, just smile and say, honey, can't you see I'm talking with your parents? What's wrong honey, why are you in such a rush? Wow, you must really be hungry. Don't worry, we'll start the grill up in a minute. Why don't you go inside and have snack while I get going with the grill?

Or just change the subject. Her: Come on, Jerry, we're all waiting, get the grill going. You, with a big smile: No way honey, not unless I get a kiss first.

There are a lot of other ways to sidestep your wife's behavior and some of them might even make her laugh and take her out of her "biatch" mood.

What I'm trying to get at is, don't overreact. Your wife looks a little bad for ordering you around, then you overreact and look even worse. Don't play her game. Generally you can't go wrong if you remain calm and respond with humor, affection, and love, even if her original statements/commands to you are none of those things.


----------



## jh52

Will_Kane said:


> *same old, same old with her when family/friends are around. Ordering me to do things in front of them. *
> 
> There are many ways to handle this. I don't think you handled it effectively. Don't do things because she told you to. Don't do things to spite her. Be relaxed and be yourself. When she orders you, don't let it bother you. Ignore her comments and act as if she didn't say anything. Engage MIL and FIL in conversation. If she starts ordering you to get the cookout started now, just smile and say, honey, can't you see I'm talking with your parents? What's wrong honey, why are you in such a rush? Wow, you must really be hungry. Don't worry, we'll start the grill up in a minute. Why don't you go inside and have snack while I get going with the grill?
> 
> Or just change the subject. Her: Come on, Jerry, we're all waiting, get the grill going. You, with a big smile: No way honey, not unless I get a kiss first.
> 
> There are a lot of other ways to sidestep your wife's behavior and some of them might even make her laugh and take her out of her "biatch" mood.
> 
> What I'm trying to get at is, don't overreact. Your wife looks a little bad for ordering you around, then you overreact and look even worse. Don't play her game.


Totally agree -- worth trying.


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> Yes, she has shown an interest in some kind of 3 some
> (2 girls/and me) but NEVER actually said it. I am reaching but she may be at a point in her life that sex and fantasies are really coming in to her mind. That may be a good thing but also a bad thing...
> 
> So sick of these mind games with her...wish she would just be a wife to me!!!


Jerry,

This could be the worst thing if she is deciding at this stage in her life/marriage to broaden her sexual horizons. After FFM it will be a FMM then she will be doing her own hookups without you. 

Glad you mowed the entire lawn. 

And yes, you deserve a wife that wants to be your wife 100% of the time.

HM64


----------



## jerry123

Will_Kane said:


> *same old, same old with her when family/friends are around. Ordering me to do things in front of them. *
> 
> There are many ways to handle this. I don't think you handled it effectively. Don't do things because she told you to. Don't do things to spite her. Be relaxed and be yourself. When she orders you, don't let it bother you. Ignore her comments and act as if she didn't say anything. Engage MIL and FIL in conversation. If she starts ordering you to get the cookout started now, just smile and say, honey, can't you see I'm talking with your parents? What's wrong honey, why are you in such a rush? Wow, you must really be hungry. Don't worry, we'll start the grill up in a minute. Why don't you go inside and have snack while I get going with the grill?
> 
> Or just change the subject. Her: Come on, Jerry, we're all waiting, get the grill going. You, with a big smile: No way honey, not unless I get a kiss first.
> 
> There are a lot of other ways to sidestep your wife's behavior and some of them might even make her laugh and take her out of her "biatch" mood.
> 
> What I'm trying to get at is, don't overreact. Your wife looks a little bad for ordering you around, then you overreact and look even worse. Don't play her game. Generally you can't go wrong if you remain calm and respond with humor, affection, and love, even if her original statements/commands to you are none of those things.




Ok, i get it. Will try that in future. If she reacts bad then i will chalk it up as "I tried it"


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Jerry,
> 
> This could be the worst thing if she is deciding at this stage in her life/marriage to broaden her sexual horizons. After FFM it will be a FMM then she will be doing her own hookups without you.
> 
> Glad you mowed the entire lawn.
> 
> And yes, you deserve a wife that wants to be your wife 100% of the time.
> 
> HM64


Hmmm, we may need to see a sex therapist after the MC.


----------



## jh52

Jerry:

1) How long has you two been married ?
2) How long have you known each other and dated ?
3) Has she ever had an EA/PA before -- or at least one you suspected?
4) Have you ever has an EA/PA that she knows about or suspected ?
5) 1st marriage for both ?

Just trying to play psychologist here asking a few questions !!:scratchhead:


----------



## Chaparral

Will_Kane said:


> *same old, same old with her when family/friends are around. Ordering me to do things in front of them. *
> 
> There are many ways to handle this. I don't think you handled it effectively. Don't do things because she told you to. Don't do things to spite her. Be relaxed and be yourself. When she orders you, don't let it bother you. Ignore her comments and act as if she didn't say anything. Engage MIL and FIL in conversation. If she starts ordering you to get the cookout started now, just smile and say, honey, can't you see I'm talking with your parents? What's wrong honey, why are you in such a rush? Wow, you must really be hungry. Don't worry, we'll start the grill up in a minute. Why don't you go inside and have snack while I get going with the grill?
> 
> Or just change the subject. Her: Come on, Jerry, we're all waiting, get the grill going. You, with a big smile: No way honey, not unless I get a kiss first.
> 
> There are a lot of other ways to sidestep your wife's behavior and some of them might even make her laugh and take her out of her "biatch" mood.
> 
> What I'm trying to get at is, don't overreact. Your wife looks a little bad for ordering you around, then you overreact and look even worse. Don't play her game. Generally you can't go wrong if you remain calm and respond with humor, affection, and love, even if her original statements/commands to you are none of those things.


Its not surprising that she is backsliding into old tried and true behaviors. Thats where you stay strong and maintain your boundaries. Never show anger when she goes off the rails. A little paternalistic condecension maybe. A look can be more valuable than a thousand angry words. When you get angry in an arguement you have already lost the high ground.

Rome wasn't built in a day and there will be steps backward as well as the many steps forward you have taken.

About the yard mowing incident, like Will Kane says. Another approach that works is an emotionless stare and an 'Is that an order?" But like WK says, try sugar/humor before you use salt.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry:
> 
> 1) How long has you two been married ?
> 2) How long have you known each other and dated ?
> 3) Has she ever had an EA/PA before -- or at least one you suspected?
> 4) Have you ever has an EA/PA that she knows about or suspected ?
> 5) 1st marriage for both ?
> 
> Just trying to play psychologist here asking a few questions !!:scratchhead:


1) 14 years
2) total 17 years, dated and married
3) never to my knowledge or suspected
4) never...I have been caught checking out woman while she was around but that was just looking.
5) yes, she married me at her age 22 and i was 28.


----------



## jerry123

Will be an interesting week...neighbor is back from his trip. I have IC on Friday. She is taking that day off and will be home alone from 9:00am-10:10. VAR will be in bedroom. This was just planned yesterday by her. Funny thing is, this morning she mentioned how i have IC on Friday. She did not ask to come with me even though she will be off work.

Also, she has been slowly going back to controlling ways a bit but i have stayed strong. Sex has been once in the last 7 days. Big change from 3 weeks ago when in the span of 14 days it was sex 7 times...plus she questioned going to NYC in June (just us) because of money. Which money is not a problem with us.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Will be an interesting week...neighbor is back from his trip. I have IC on Friday. She is taking that day off and will be home alone from 9:00am-10:10. VAR will be in bedroom. This was just planned yesterday by her. Funny thing is, this morning she mentioned how i have IC on Friday. She did not ask to come with me even though she will be off work.
> 
> Also, she has been slowly going back to controlling ways a bit but i have stayed strong. Sex has been once in the last 7 days. Big change from 3 weeks ago when in the span of 14 days it was sex 7 times...plus she questioned going to NYC in June (just us) because of money. Which money is not a problem with us.


She is pissed off at you from yesterday. I would think if her and scum bag have something going on -- she will call him today or tomorrow in the car. BTW -- did you mention anything about not going to the party where scum bag will be ??


----------



## Gabriel

Will_Kane said:


> *What I'm trying to get at is, don't overreact. Your wife looks a little bad for ordering you around, then you overreact and look even worse. Don't play her game. Generally you can't go wrong if you remain calm and respond with humor, affection, and love, even if her original statements/commands to you are none of those things.*


*

:iagree:

Your wife sounds a little bit like mine. She's very delegating. My wife got this way due to working with children in her past career. Yours probably due to her position at work. This string here is making me realize I should use some of these tactics as well - considering I probably let this happen too much.

But I agree with Will Kane - don't overreact. That will backfire.*


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> She is pissed off at you from yesterday. I would think if her and scum bag have something going on -- she will call him today or tomorrow in the car. BTW -- did you mention anything about not going to the party where scum bag will be ??


Oh, there was no party at their house. We had a little party at our house last Saturday. And this neighbor was not around anyway. Not that i would have invited him.

Yes, she seems to have changed a bit leading up to him coming back. Which there is no way of her knowing if he was gone. I never told her...
The only way she could know he was away is by him, so this behavior may be a red flag. 

I don't know if many husbands go through this but i never get "I love you" from her, kisses are on lips but for 2 seconds. She stays on her side of bed while sleeping and never does she hold me at night. This has been going on for what seems like years. And thinking back months ago our kisses were pecks on the cheek.


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> Oh, there was no party at their house. We had a little party at our house last Saturday. And this neighbor was not around anyway. Not that i would have invited him.
> 
> Yes, she seems to have changed a bit leading up to him coming back. Which there is no way of her knowing if he was gone. I never told her...
> The only way she could know he was away is by him, so this behavior may be a red flag.
> 
> I don't know if many husbands go through this but i never get "I love you" from her, kisses are on lips but for 2 seconds. She stays on her side of bed while sleeping and never does she hold me at night. This has been going on for what seems like years. And thinking back months ago our kisses were pecks on the cheek.


Given that has been that way for a long time, it's probably not a red flag, more just who she is. I am not a very affectionate person, like to roll over to go to sleep, and I'm not an adulterer. I wouldn't read too much into that.


----------



## jh52

Jerry -- didn't your IC ask that only you come back this week ?

Also, I just decided today to take off this Friday as well because of the holiday here in US on Monday to get a long weekend. Would not read anything into this.


----------



## iheartlife

Gabriel said:


> Given that has been that way for a long time, it's probably not a red flag, more just who she is. I am not a very affectionate person, like to roll over to go to sleep, and I'm not an adulterer. I wouldn't read too much into that.


Yes. You're looking for changes in who she is and how she acts, not comparing her to other people.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry -- didn't your IC ask that only you come back this week ?
> 
> Also, I just decided today to take off this Friday as well because of the holiday here in US on Monday to get a long weekend. Would not read anything into this.


Yes, MC did say that.

I should just stay the course i have been on. Thinking way too much into her every move. 

Thinking back on the Vegas lap dance thing has been burning me up though. If she says the comment "one word" (lap dance) thing i will come out with "Well, you must have enjoyed it also since you were the one that wanted me to have lap dance."


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> Yes. You're looking for changes in who she is and how she acts, not comparing her to other people.


Yes, i see your point.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Yes, MC did say that.
> 
> I should just stay the course i have been on. Thinking way too much into her every move.
> 
> Thinking back on the Vegas lap dance thing has been burning me up though. If she says the comment "one word" (lap dance) thing i will come out with "Well, you must have enjoyed it also since you were the one that wanted me to have lap dance."


I'd say something instead like, 'as time has gone on, when you mention that now, it feels like you set me up. I resent that you won't own up to the role you played in that lap dance and I regret ever doing it. I wish it never happened. You are using it unfairly to keep me at a distance. I love you and you have to drop this.'


----------



## jh52

If you go to NYC -- don't do that 2nd lap dance either. IMO it will be something else she can use/keep over your head and control.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> If you go to NYC -- don't do that 2nd lap dance either. IMO it will be something else she can use/keep over your head and control.


I agree...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Oh, there was no party at their house. We had a little party at our house last Saturday. And this neighbor was not around anyway. Not that i would have invited him.
> 
> Yes, she seems to have changed a bit leading up to him coming back. Which there is no way of her knowing if he was gone. I never told her...
> The only way she could know he was away is by him, so this behavior may be a red flag.
> 
> I don't know if many husbands go through this but i never get "I love you" from her, kisses are on lips but for 2 seconds. She stays on her side of bed while sleeping and never does she hold me at night. This has been going on for what seems like years. And thinking back months ago our kisses were pecks on the cheek.


Sometimes you just have to grab'em and lay a lip lock on them. If you have one hand on the back of her head she can't pull away before you are done. Then say I love you without expecting anything in return. Have you tried to initiate and she turned you down for sex?


----------



## Chaparral

jh52 said:


> If you go to NYC -- don't do that 2nd lap dance either. IMO it will be something else she can use/keep over your head and control.


Stay good humored, the next time it comes up pull out a twenty and tell her the only lap dances you want are from her.

And tease her about her wanting to watch you have a lap dance in Vegas because she's a closet voyeur.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Sometimes you just have to grab'em and lay a lip lock on them. If you have one hand on the back of her head she can't pull away before you are done. Then say I love you without expecting anything in return. Have you tried to initiate and she turned you down for sex?


I did this last night, an hour before bed I was giving her a kiss here and there. Laying in bed 30 minutes before I put kids to bed I was kissing her and rubbing her chest. A few times she stopped me because she thought kids would walk in our bedroom. 
I put kids to bed then locked the door, slowly took her and my clothes off. Did about 20 minutes of foreplay then made her orgasm orally. I made it a point to kiss her, French too (which is rare for us) during the night. She was a bit shocked by this but did not pull away. 
She kept asking me what got into me, she also tried the "I'm tired" thing while the kids were up. That was also when I told her be ready for me tonight. 

I'm not just sitting back and waiting for her to kiss me or approach for sex . If I want sex a certain night I will just go for it. If she rejects then I will just say ok no problem. Good night...

One thing she used to do is while we were sleeping if her foot or leg touched mine during the night she would jerk it away. Well last night she actually kept her feet on mine. And most of the night I held her. 

She is obvoulating now so she should be horny. Not to say she is always horny during this time but according to MMSG this is the peak time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> She is obvoulating now so she should be horny. Not to say she is always horny during this time but according to MMSG this is the peak time.


Getting her pregant would be one definite way of changing the marriage dynamic for a while.


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Getting her pregant would be one definite way of changing the marriage dynamic for a while.


LOL, her tubes are tied.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

So this Friday is the big VAR day? How are you feeling?


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> So this Friday is the big VAR day? How are you feeling?


VAR has been in place everyday she goes to work but yes, VAR will be in bedroom Friday.

I'm feeling pretty good lately, anxiety has been coming and going the last few weeks. 

To help with anxiety, MC said think of what i would do if i found out. I told her depends how i found out. Decided that if she came clean of an A and told me everything i would consider working it out. But if i found out via VAR/someone outing her then it will be over. 

BTW, this neighbor guy texted me last night for a ride to pick up his car at dealership which is getting repaired. I said Ok, text me when you need a ride today. Should be an interesting ride, trying to think of ways to make him very uncomfortable.


----------



## Almostrecovered

smoke a cigar in the car with the windows closed


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> smoke a cigar in the car with the windows closed


LOL....

I was going to say no to giving him a ride, but i think it will be interesting to stare him down and see if he squirms.


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> BTW, this neighbor guy texted me last night for a ride to pick up his car at dealership which is getting repaired. I said Ok, text me when you need a ride today. Should be an interesting ride, trying to think of ways to make him very uncomfortable.


That's an interesting turn of events. I would think he is unafraid if he's asking you for a ride, and that goes against his earlier behavior.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> That's an interesting turn of events. I would think he is unafraid if he's asking you for a ride, and that goes against his earlier behavior.


Yeah, if my wife gave him the news all is clear and i have no suspicions anymore then this is his way of seeing it for himself.

Still, this is just my thinking. I will just sit back and monitor the situation.


----------



## PHTlump

jerry123 said:


> BTW, this neighbor guy texted me last night for a ride to pick up his car at dealership which is getting repaired. I said Ok, text me when you need a ride today. Should be an interesting ride, trying to think of ways to make him very uncomfortable.


What? That's not the way to cut this guy out of your life. The best way to ensure that this guy doesn't have sex with your wife is to keep him away from your wife. That means keeping him away from you, too. You should have told him you're busy.


----------



## cabin fever

agreed. 

the last thing I would do is have ANY more contact with the douche bag neighbor. You told you wife what you think of him. She knows you don't like/trust him, so there should be no reason to have any further contact. 


After that, if she still contacts him, it would be hard to explain. And would be a HUGE red flag IMO. 


If I had to give OM a ride anywhere it would be to a dead end road, and would involve MR Glock 20!


----------



## morituri

Might be a good opportunity for you to tell him to get the f**k off out your lives.


----------



## happyman64

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Jerry,

Just tell him how much you are banging your wife lately and leaving deposits. Sorry for being crude but you should watch his face when you drop that bomb!!

Then listen to the var to see if there is a reaction.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

cabin fever said:


> agreed.
> 
> the last thing I would do is have ANY more contact with the douche bag neighbor. You told you wife what you think of him. She knows you don't like/trust him, so there should be no reason to have any further contact.
> 
> 
> After that, if she still contacts him, it would be hard to explain. And would be a HUGE red flag IMO.
> 
> 
> If I had to give OM a ride anywhere it would be to a dead end road, and would involve MR Glock 20!


Yeah, the more i think about it the more i want to have no contact with him...I told him i was busy. Short and blunt..


Also, I've been trying to think of what to talk about with MC on Friday. I will start with how my wife seems disconnected even after the talk with her and accusation. Yeah she threw me a bone with 8 days of sex in 2 weeks.

There is def something in between us, whether it's the neighbor or a guy at her work,(her co-workers are 70% men) or it could be just she puts work over me and kids. And i'm not talking about last few months, it's more like 8 months. I am going to ask MC that the session after this we both come in...

I am sure MC will have an opinion about bringing up my accusation when we are both there. I'm just wondering if it would hurt or help the situation. Hurt it by her getting all defensive again and shutting down or help it by maybe her just coming clean and letting it out. (Which i doubt will happen)

All in all, i still have no concrete proof. That is what i need, and will continue with eyes/ears open.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Yeah, the more i think about it the more i want to have no contact with him...I told him i was busy. Short and blunt..
> 
> 
> Also, I've been trying to think of what to talk about with MC on Friday. I will start with how my wife seems disconnected even after the talk with her and accusation. Yeah she threw me a bone with 8 days of sex in 2 weeks.
> 
> There is def something in between us, whether it's the neighbor or a guy at her work,(her co-workers are 70% men) or it could be just she puts work over me and kids. And i'm not talking about last few months, it's more like 8 months. I am going to ask MC that the session after this we both come in...
> 
> I am sure MC will have an opinion about bringing up my accusation when we are both there. I'm just wondering if it would hurt or help the situation. Hurt it by her getting all defensive again and shutting down or help it by maybe her just coming clean and letting it out. (Which i doubt will happen)
> 
> All in all, i still have no concrete proof. That is what i need, and will continue with eyes/ears open.


Since you 1st told scum bag you would take him and then said you were busy might get a response on VAR. Does your wife know that scumbag asked for a ride ?? Now you have a phone number for scumbag -- don't delete it. BTW -- how did he get your number to text you ??


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Since you 1st told scum bag you would take him and then said you were busy might get a response on VAR. Does your wife know that scumbag asked for a ride ?? Now you have a phone number for scumbag -- don't delete it. BTW -- how did he get your number to text you ??


Oh, I've had his number for a while and he has had mine. 

My wife knows nothing about him asking me for a ride. Not going to tell her either. 

I know my wife does not have his number on her BB. I did a spoof call and his number came up but it's not in her contact list. Will check email contact also when I get a chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Oh, I've had his number for a while and he has had mine.
> 
> My wife knows nothing about him asking me for a ride. Not going to tell her either.
> 
> I know my wife does not have his number on her BB. I did a spoof call and his number came up but it's not in her contact list. Will check email contact also when I get a chance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not suggesting telling her. But if she knew -- I was going to say don't say anything to her about cancelling. If she slipped and asked you why -- then you would know they had contact. Even now if she slips -- you know for sure.


----------



## Chaparral

happyman64 said:


> Jerry,
> 
> Just tell him how much you are banging your wife lately and leaving deposits. Sorry for being crude but you should watch his face when you drop that bomb!!
> 
> Then listen to the var to see if there is a reaction.
> 
> HM64
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let him know you're wearing it out and she can't get enough! :rofl:


----------



## bandit.45

Man I feel bad that I'm actually looking forward to Friday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> LOL....
> 
> I was going to say no to giving him a ride, but i think it will be interesting to stare him down and see if he squirms.


I know your ears will be pinned back paying attention. He's fishing. 

Try to find out if he got any strange while he was on his trip. In any event I would tell my wife he was bragging about banging some bimbo, waitress, or someone else. Some type of woman your wife can't stand anfd hope his ewife doesn't get any STD's. Just don't go overboard.


----------



## Chaparral

Just caught up. I think taking him to pick up car was a golden oppurtunity. However, keeping your distance has its point. OTOH if something has been going on he will now be wary and careful.....


----------



## jerry123

Found some strange 3 minute talk on VAR while she is driving home from work...it's my wife's voice but i doubt she is on phone since the radio is pretty loud but she may be talking to herself about something. I downloaded Audacity software but i am no sound expert. Messing around with software to see if i can filter out radio.


----------



## TDSC60

jerry123 said:


> Found some strange 3 minute talk on VAR while she is driving home from work...it's my wife's voice but i doubt she is on phone since the radio is pretty loud but she may be talking to herself about something. I downloaded Audacity software but i am no sound expert. Messing around with software to see if i can filter out radio.


Singing along with the radio??

Is your wife in the habit of talking to herself? 

OM gets home and all of a sudden you get a hit on the VAR. 

RED FLAG just went up.


----------



## jerry123

TDSC60 said:


> Singing along with the radio??
> 
> Is your wife in the habit of talking to herself?
> 
> OM gets home and all of a sudden you get a hit on the VAR.
> 
> RED FLAG just went up.


Def not singing...commercials are on radio.

Not known for talking to herself, after 1 month of VAR this is the only time so far with her talking. Trying to boost volume makes radio just louder...


----------



## Mario Kempes

Is there a possibility that she knows about the VAR, that in the car is the only place she can talk to him and has the radio on in the background to prevent you hearing what's being said?


----------



## bandit.45

Mario Kempes said:


> Is there a possibility that she knows about the VAR, that in the car is the only place she can talk to him and has the radio on in the background to prevent you hearing what's being said?


Naw. She could pull off the road at a park, have a smoke and call the OM from some private place. Why go through the risk of calling him in the car if she suspects a bug?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Def not singing...commercials are on radio.
> 
> Not known for talking to herself, after 1 month of VAR this is the only time so far with her talking. Trying to boost volume makes radio just louder...


You also heard her talking to herself on the VAR a month or two ago if I remember your thread. That was one of your 1st red flags. Yesterday you said you checked her phone and scum bag's # isn't in her contact list. Besides if she was on the phone -- she would have lowered the sound or turned the radio off and the conversation would have been longer than 3 minutes since scumbag was gone for 2 weeks. I think this is one of your over thinking. 

But for a test of the VAR in the car -- why don't you call her for any reason while she is on her way home. That way you can check the VAR and you know the conversation. Just a thought.

Besides -- you made her a happy bunny Monday night !!! She is probably in a good mood -- as she only has one day of work left for the week -- off Friday and a long weekend with the holiday. 

Tonight may be a good night to show her the "new" Jerry when kids are in bed -- don't forget to lock the bedroom door !!


----------



## TDSC60

His number not being in her contact list means nothing.
All it means is that his number is not stored in contacts list. Nothing prevents her from dialing the number.

Check cell phone records - see if she called someone or someone called her and what number it went to or came from. You know around what time the call was made/received so that should be easy.

If she has deleted the call record = RED FLAG.


----------



## jh52

TDSC60 said:


> His number not being in her contact list means nothing.
> All it means is that his number is not stored in contacts list. Nothing prevents her from dialing the number.
> 
> Check cell phone records - see if she called someone or someone called her and what number it went to or came from. You know around what time the call was made/received so that should be easy.
> 
> If she has deleted the call record = RED FLAG.


Then why was the radio volume up so hi. 1st thing most people do in a car when they make or receive a phone call is turn down the volume of the radio -- or shut it off. Otherwise you can't hear and you have to yell to drown out the radio.


----------



## jerry123

TDSC60 said:


> His number not being in her contact list means nothing.
> All it means is that his number is not stored in contacts list. Nothing prevents her from dialing the number.
> 
> Check cell phone records - see if she called someone or someone called her and what number it went to or came from. You know around what time the call was made/received so that should be easy.
> 
> If she has deleted the call record = RED FLAG.



Yes, I will check her call record on BB. I know the exact time. Still think its her talking to herself. 

Last month was the birthday song on his birthday. Audacity is pretty neat software. It lets me copy just the 3 minutes of audio and I'm playing around with trying to lower radio sound.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Then why was the radio volume up so hi. 1st thing most people do in a car when they make or receive a phone call is turn down the volume of the radio -- or shut it off. Otherwise you can't hear and you have to yell to drown out the radio.


Correct, it's not a call but her saying something. Could be work related but can't really hear it. Oh well, will just try and use audio software.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60

jh52 said:


> Then why was the radio volume up so hi. 1st thing most people do in a car when they make or receive a phone call is turn down the volume of the radio -- or shut it off. Otherwise you can't hear and you have to yell to drown out the radio.


Could be a function of where the VAR is located and where the speakers in the car are located. I have a car with speakers located low on the door. If the VAR is under the seat - then it would pick up the radio much louder than someone talking. Plus to the person driving the car - the radio might not sound that loud - especially if they had a bluetooth headset.


----------



## jh52

TDSC60 said:


> Could be a function of where the VAR is located and where the speakers in the car are located. I have a car with speakers located low on the door. If the VAR is under the seat - then it would pick up the radio much louder than someone talking. Plus to the person driving the car - the radio might not sound that loud - especially if they had a bluetooth headset.


Valid points -- that's why I suggested he make a call to her tomorrow and test the VAR. That way he can make those adjustments to the placing of the VAR. He will know what the conversation he had and will be able to see if he can hear it on the VAR.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Valid points -- that's why I suggested he make a call to her tomorrow and test the VAR. That way he can make those adjustments to the placing of the VAR. He will know what the conversation he had and will be able to see if he can hear it on the VAR.


Yeah, I think a better place for VAR would be under dash/steering wheel if the is plenty of hiding space. There is actually a filter setting on VAR that lets you filter out background noise. I will have to test it though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

She might have a burner phone which she leaves at work.


----------



## Chaparral

What time of day was the she talking? Could she have been talking to someone outside the car?


----------



## bandit.45

chapparal said:


> What time of day was the she talking? Could she have been talking to someone outside the car?


Yeah... maybe she was at a drive-thru ordering a Wendy's deluxe.


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah... maybe she was at a drive-thru ordering a Wendy's deluxe.


I'm not going to say a thing about a whopper:smthumbup:


----------



## jh52

chapparal said:


> I'm not going to say a thing about a whopper:smthumbup:


Hopefully she got a WHOPPER tonight when she got home :smthumbup:


----------



## TBT

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah... maybe she was at a drive-thru ordering a Wendy's deluxe.


Maybe she was saying "can you hear me now Jerry" Wouldn't that be a b*tch.lol Sorry,j.k.


----------



## ShootMePlz!

Just throwing this oout there about the phone.....Don't just look at the contact names and phone numbers but check out the reminder/note app, in the contact list you can also add info like email or additional ph #. She can just hide his number in those section's....if she is real sneaky. Thats how I place extension numbers etc.


----------



## Humble Pie

Jerry, elaborate on "strange" 3 min talk... what time of day was it, where would your wife be at that time of convo... any change in behavior that day you could notice... any conversations with her that day which could relate to the call... all important aspects


----------



## GTA06

Not to be condescending but I think you suspicions are unfounded .........I mean such a lengthy pursuit and still nothing worthwhile to catch


----------



## jerry123

GTA06 said:


> Not to be condescending but I think you suspicions are unfounded .........I mean such a lengthy pursuit and still nothing worthwhile to catch


I respect your opinion but with all the red flags since last October and only having the GPS/VAR for a month or so I think if anything happened it may have stopped months ago. It was dumb of me to accuse with just red flags. But that gut feeling is still as strong as ever. I'm just not letting it consume me every minute of the day. 

Tomorrow will be interesting, she may see it as an opportunity to start things up again since she will have at least 90 minutes to call or have him over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

jerry123 said:


> I respect your opinion but with all the red flags since last October and only having the GPS/VAR for a month or so I think if anything happened it may have stopped months ago. It was dumb of me to accuse with just red flags. But that gut feeling is still as strong as ever. I'm just not letting it consume me every minute of the day.
> 
> Tomorrow will be interesting, she may see it as an opportunity to start things up again since she will have at least 90 minutes to call or have him over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jerry, yes it was dumb to confront with no real evidence! BTDT. Heck even with strong circumstantial evidence she deflected, blame shifted, and gaslighted. I too think my wife was in an affair which ended before I started snooping. She slipped up and months later I found the circumstantial evidence, but there remains a 0.1% chance the evidence is wrong. Your wife may yet make a mistake which you stumble upon.

Don't let the paranoia consume you. Be vigilant but rational. It is easy to let things get out of control emotionally with the snooping. There are probably many logical explanations of this 3 minute recording which are innocent. Plus of course not so innocent. Does she have a headset for her phone? Is the VAR near the car radio speakers?

At some point you're going to have to decide that there is nothing current going on. At that point you should stop the snooping, or at least throttle it way back. Constant paranoia is not good for you, and if she discovers your snooping it could be very damaging to your marriage. Especially if there has been no affair and she finds you snooping on her, she may be very hurt.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Yes, I will check her call record on BB. I know the exact time. Still think its her talking to herself.
> 
> Last month was the birthday song on his birthday. Audacity is pretty neat software. It lets me copy just the 3 minutes of audio and I'm playing around with trying to lower radio sound.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi Jerry:

What did her BB call record show from Wednesday?
Did you get any more info from Wednesday on VAR ?

Good luck at IC today !!


----------



## jerry123

No call on BB, she was talking to herself. Which is what I suspected. Radio is still too loud. 

Also, VAR is all set in our bedroom. Plus we talked this morning about how she feels with me going to IC. That talk led to, since no kids will be here when I get back from IC I suggested to her be waiting for me since we will have 2 hours alone. She was receptive to that. I hope the only thing on VAR is her and I.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> No call on BB, she was talking to herself. Which is what I suspected. Radio is still too loud.
> 
> Also, VAR is all set in our bedroom. Plus we talked this morning about how she feels with me going to IC. That talk led to, since no kids will be here when I get back from IC I suggested to her be waiting for me since we will have 2 hours alone. She was receptive to that. I hope the only thing on VAR is her and I.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad to hear that. Now that you two have a "date" when you get back -- she will have worked herself up thinking about you.

If everything goes as expected -- post the audio from the var !!
Just kidding !!

Have FUN !!


----------



## Gabriel

jh52 said:


> glad to hear that. Now that you two have a "date" when you get back -- she will have worked herself up thinking about you.
> 
> If everything goes as expected -- post the audio from the var !!:d
> just kidding !!
> 
> Have fun !!


jer-ry! 
Jer-ry! 
Jer-ry!


----------



## jerry123

Well, ready for this?!?!? Told her to be ready for me in some nice underwear when I get back. She was, we did stuff for an hour. Grabbed the VAR after and took a ride to listen. She is picking up and checking her phone quite often, 4 minutes in I hear her laugh and say "Wow, you're so ****ing bad" and repeats the email/text "I wish I had my ****ing apartment there" then laughs and repeats "so ****ing bad" and a few other laughs. Granted she is wearing her underwear I told her to be in when I get home. 

Strange thing is, neighbor does not have an apartment....BTW, as you can tell the asterisk are the "f" word. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity

If the person on the other end wasn't a girlfriend I'd definitely think it's someone from work.


----------



## warlock07

Could be a gf. check the call records on bb


----------



## bandit.45

I wouldn't jump to conclusions until you investigate. Does your wife have an apartment you don't know about? I've heard of waywards who rent places to have lunchtime trysts in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Well, ready for this?!?!? Told her to be ready for me in some nice underwear when I get back. She was, we did stuff for an hour. Grabbed the VAR after and took a ride to listen. She is picking up and checking her phone quite often, 4 minutes in I hear her laugh and say "Wow, you're so ****ing bad" and repeats the email/text "I wish I had my ****ing apartment there" then laughs and repeats "so ****ing bad" and a few other laughs. Granted she is wearing her underwear I told her to be in when I get home.
> 
> Strange thing is, neighbor does not have an apartment....BTW, as you can tell the asterisk are the "f" word.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So this is a email/text she is reading out loud and not talking to anyone on the phone. She is talking to herself ??

Are you sure that she said "my" and not "an" appartment there ?

You need to stay alert but maybe she texted a gf from work about your tryst today with her since she was home today -- and the response from the gf was something "bad". Does she have any work female work colleagues that you know of that she is close with that maybe is on vacation or lives in an apartment that she thinks is really in a special location.


----------



## Eli-Zor

You need to get hold of that phone and if you find nothing load an app to track down what is happening


----------



## Shaggy

Well that's a real turn of events. Sounds like you better be keeping a var in the bedroom from now on. 

Since you know when this went down can you use that to find who it is?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

I am really confused. Jerry, when you have a moment, can you lay this out a little more slowly for us? 

I can't tell what is her talking and what is texting, etc. 

It sounds like she talks to herself more than you think. The apartment comment is so beyond strange and out of left field, but the "you're so f*cking bad" to me is clearly aimed at somebody being "naughty". Could be a GF, or it could be a dude. 

Could it be the neighbor relaying to her a story of something he did while on his business trip?

I smell trouble here, really, for the first time. Dammit.


----------



## jh52

So she had an exchange of words with this person -- and yet you two were together when you got home ?? Anything different happen during -- something new, different request, let's do this from her ??


----------



## jh52

Forgot to remind you -- DO NOT lose your cool and confront. Still nothing in concrete. Hang in there -- especially this long weekend.

If you are starting to lose it -- just walk away.


----------



## vi_bride04

Very suspicious - keep monitoring and DON'T confront...

It could be easily "reasoned" away by her.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Well, ready for this?!?!? Told her to be ready for me in some nice underwear when I get back. She was, we did stuff for an hour. Grabbed the VAR after and took a ride to listen. She is picking up and checking her phone quite often, 4 minutes in I hear her laugh and say "Wow, you're so ****ing bad" and repeats the email/text "I wish I had my ****ing apartment there" then laughs and repeats "so ****ing bad" and a few other laughs. Granted she is wearing her underwear I told her to be in when I get home.
> 
> Strange thing is, neighbor does not have an apartment....BTW, as you can tell the asterisk are the "f" word.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"Strange thing is, neighbor does not have an apartment".

**** --- just remembered this. You really need to read that text or email -- because scumbag just got back from being away for 2 weeks. Do you know if he stayed in an apartment or hotel and where when he was gone. She knew she was going to be alone for 2 hours waiting for you. If it is scum bag -- it defintely is/was an EA. 

I hope it was a gf -- but .......

I just thought of this question as well. When she is at home on a work day -- even though she is on vacation -- does she still check her emails on the phone. I know I do -- and my wife hates it -- but that is me and the job I am in. Could it be she was checking work email and the exchange was with a gf from work ??


----------



## warlock07

> 4 minutes in I hear her laugh and say "Wow, you're so ****ing bad" and *repeats the email/text* "I wish I had my ****ing apartment there" then laughs and repeats "so ****ing bad"


How do you know she was repeating the email.


----------



## jerry123

Ok, yes I am calm. More than I thought. 

I went to IC by myself, put VAR in bedroom. Told her to wait for me in bed with nice underwear. 
Most likely reading a text because I looked for email/text and nothing there. She is reading the text as follows which whomever is texting wrote it. She says outloud " you're so f'in bad" reads" I wish I had my apartment there. " she says "so ****ing bad"

BTW, she has no girlfriends at work or out of work. Surprise, surprise...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vi_bride04

jerry123 said:


> BTW, she has no girlfriends at work or out of work. Surprise, surprise...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Be wary of the woman who has no close girlfriends.....

Woman are social by nature and usually have AT LEAST 1 OR 2 close GFs they can always confide in no matter what.


----------



## jerry123

Can I upload the sound here for you guys to hear it? Just 10-12 seconds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

jerry123 said:


> Can I upload the sound here for you guys to hear it? Just 10-12 seconds.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How about also the part where she was checking the phone before that to give it more context?


----------



## jerry123

And a few whoa's after her reading the texts. I know she has the bra and panty set on because she keeps pulling the strap that is digging in her shoulder. She checks her phone like 10 times Acording to VAR. I know this because I know the sound her case makes when she pulls it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> And a few whoa's after her reading the texts. I know she has the bra and panty set on because she keeps pulling the strap that is digging in her shoulder. She checks her phone like 10 times Acording to VAR. I know this because I know the sound her case makes when she pulls it out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Still confused, but that's okay. Maybe when you see her ask, "So anything exciting happen today?" If she dishes with you about something "bad", then you know. If she says, "nope, nothing exciting", the RED FLAG.

So is it obvious she was reading/quoting a text when she mentioned the apartment? Also, was she kind of enjoying the bad behavior or was the tone more of disgust?


----------



## jh52

Can you get her phone tonight with more time ? In some phones they have a recent numbers file that shows either calls or texts that have been sent or recieved. It wouldn't show an email.


----------



## Thor

I am confused by her actions and what was on the VAR. It really could be something totally innocent. You need more data, such as reading her texts. But be sure it is legal!

Don't get too paranoid. Monitoring can become addictive and unhealthy.


----------



## jh52

Thor said:


> I am confused by her actions and what was on the VAR. It really could be something totally innocent. You need more data, such as reading her texts. But be sure it is legal!
> 
> Don't get too paranoid. Monitoring can become addictive and unhealthy.


Will you be with the neighbors for a cookout or something this weekend ?? Just watch the interaction between scumbag and the wife.

Also, is there a way in normal conversation with anyone -- including other neighbors or scum man's wife where you can find out where he stayed for the 2 weeks he was away for work. (hotel vs apartment) and maybe where - just part of a conversation.


----------



## aug

jerry123 said:


> And a few whoa's after her reading the texts. I know she has the bra and panty set on because she keeps pulling the strap that is digging in her shoulder. She checks her phone like 10 times Acording to VAR. I know this because I know the sound her case makes when she pulls it out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I wonder why she would keep checking her phone? And why would she go back and reread her old texts? And out loud too?

To get herself excited for jerry123?


----------



## jerry123

aug said:


> I wonder why she would keep checking her phone? And why would she go back and reread her old texts? And out loud too?
> 
> To get herself excited for jerry123?


Yup, and she was when I got home. If I get a chance I will write a few other things about today. My only option if it's a guy at work is to get a BB software download on her phone. I just don't know how to reboot a BB phone if I need the program to run. I heard you might have to do this on one of the softwares. 

I did ask her if work was busy today whole she is off. She said no...bit has checked her phone about 50 times that I know of. Did not mention anything at all about work or getting certain text/email. 

I am more calm now than ever since my gut all along may be correct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Her reference to her apartment is down right odd.

Keep that var in the var in the bedroom.

I wonder if a cam in the bedroom might see what she is doing on the phone, what app she uses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I'm so sorry that it's taken ths twist. Your mind must be reeling with what this might mean, but at least you have a little more of the puzzle, your not completely crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vi_bride04

To reboot a blackberry you just pull the battery...but if you do that it will probably ask for the passcode. Do you have that?


----------



## WhoIsIt

From the sound of it, she was reading a text/e-mail/something when referring to the apartment. In that case, it's someone else wishing they had an apartment "there."

We don't where "there" is. Could be a man wishing to live where Jerry's wife lives, or it could be a woman wanting an apartment in San Tropei. The constant checking bothers me, though. She was obviously either sending texts/emails or expecting something to be sent. That is a trigger for me. Ugh...

Jerry, does she usually read things out loud when she's alone? I mean...that would make for easy VAR work, but it just seems a little strange. I can't remember now, but do you have access to the phone records, or was this her work phone?


----------



## Gabriel

WhoIsIt said:


> Jerry, does she usually read things out loud when she's alone? I mean...that would make for easy VAR work, but it just seems a little strange. I can't remember now, but do you have access to the phone records, or was this her work phone?



It's pretty clear this woman talks to herself on a regular basis. VAR should be the perfect thing now. Interesting, Jerry, that this makes you calm. That tells you something. It's almost like you just want this to be over, one way or another. 

Keep us posted and we'll try to help as best as we can. I'll check back in tomorrow.


----------



## Complexity

I'd stop being intimate with her for the time being if she is indeed having an A, who knows what you might catch.


----------



## jerry123

Yes, I am calm because it may just bring my feeling to an end and just know either way. 

BTW, you'll like this. While i am at IC, she is sitting on bed and keeps checking texts, she is taking phone in and out of drawer by bed. Does it like 10 times before I get there. The strangest thing is, her phone (in the drawer) goes off 4-5 times (vibrates) while we are having sex. Thing is, I check her phones text/emails during the one hour sex and you guessed it NOT ONE DAMN TEXT/EMAIL SHOWING ON HER PHONE DURING THAT TIME!!!! Yup, all erased. I should have got up and grabbed her phone during sex and watched her face. 

There are more red flags in one day than in 30 days. I will listen better at apartment thing (an appt. or my appt)I can hear it clear so I just need to turn up volume and try to understand why would someone be sending f words in a text followed by her saying "your so f'in bad". I know for a fact, no one she knows should be texting her those words and she should not be saying those back to anyone!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Complexity said:


> I'd stop being intimate with her for the time being if she is indeed having an A, who knows what you might catch.


I was so thinking of this also...

BTW, should I tell MC about the VAR and what I found on it. When I went today, MC did mention someone at my wife's work could be why my wife is fixated about only work and distants herself from me and kids. We are supposed to go together next Saturday and I was hoping to sneak in a session before Saturday by myself. I could write down all the things I heard and found to be strange.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp

I think it is pretty obvious what is going on. I feel sorry for you.


----------



## jerry123

bryanp said:


> I think it is pretty obvious what is going on. I feel sorry for you.


I have to act normal, but I think she is in such a fog right now she does not know I may be on to her. She is in lala land. 

BB curve 9700...I need the best software to get her red handed with texts. Can't wait to see her face!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Sorry this is happening brother. Hate to see anyone go through this. She really thinks she's got it all under control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

jerry123 said:


> BTW, should I tell MC about the VAR and what I found on it.


No. Wait till you get more concrete evidence.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> So she had an exchange of words with this person -- and yet you two were together when you got home ?? Anything different happen during -- something new, different request, let's do this from her ??


Oh no, this happened while I was at IC. It's what the VAR picked up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

See if www.SpyingBubble.com is what you need -- check it out on youtube.


----------



## Shaggy

You should have reached over to her phone when it kept busing and said you are going to shut it off. I bet you'd be shocked at what you read.

Maybe a coupe more vars need to in the house at other places along with a cam to capture what she's doing.

Maybe arrange to be out for a couple of hours to give her a chance again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Oh, forgot to say... IC today went well. She say wife is massive Alpha woman and to change her and make her give up control is going to take a looooong time. Thinking now, nope, it's just going to take evidence and that's what I will get. Its amazing how calm I am...I am sure it's my mind saying "I was riiiiight"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Well, ready for this?!?!? Told her to be ready for me in some nice underwear when I get back. She was, we did stuff for an hour. Grabbed the VAR after and took a ride to listen. She is picking up and checking her phone quite often, 4 minutes in I hear her laugh and say "Wow, you're so ****ing bad" and repeats the email/text "I wish I had my ****ing apartment there" then laughs and repeats "so ****ing bad" and a few other laughs. Granted she is wearing her underwear I told her to be in when I get home.
> 
> Strange thing is, neighbor does not have an apartment....BTW, as you can tell the asterisk are the "f" word.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm confused..............Your wife comments "Wow,you're so f***ing bad" Then she reads the email out loud and it says I wish I had my effing apartment there" ... then she is laughing as she says again "so f**king bad". She's commenting on what the texts were but only read the one line of texts out loud.

This could be anything, but it sounds like someone in another area that does not live nearby that is saying that they did something nasty or wanted to do something nasty to her. It could be anythiong or nothing. It may not have anything to do with your wife or sex at all. Wish they had an apartment near your wife though is a wild card. Or it might just be they want to be in your city/area for whatever reason.

DoingLife thought his wife had naked pictures of a friend of theirs and it turned out the camera and pictures was of someone who previously owned the camera.

Be wary but really you don't know anything yet.

It seems like she has really been doing a lot to make you/her happy lately. She evidently lounged around in her underwear several hours getting herself worked up for your return. So do not be rash.

Have you thought about the logistics of an affair? When would she have time for one besides when she was supposed to be at work. She doesn't seem to be acting like most cheaters we see here.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> See if www.SpyingBubble.com is what you need -- check it out on youtube.


Thanks, will check it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

Jerry, it looks bad but really don't make any concrete conclusions or decisions until you have good solid information. There could be innocent explanations, and we have seen that kind of thing happen on this forum.

As far as avoiding sex, yeah that is a good idea. There may be something you haven't caught yet from her but could still catch in the future.

If this is a work phone you need to be cautious since it doesn't belong to your family. Be sure you know how to remove and delete traces of whatever you install on it.

Also be careful about what you say and do. If all of this turns out to be a non-affair, you don't want to poison the marriage. As one member her found out recently his wife was having concerns about the marriage but she was not in an affair. The intel can be very useful in healing your marriage if that is the way it goes for you, but if she finds out you've been reading all of her messages she might be very upset.

Remember the cardinal rule if you do find hard evidence of an affair, which is never divulge your methods.

I think telling your IC about what is going on with your wife and what you've heard is ok. I have mixed feelings about the MC. You have to really trust him/her not to spill the beans. Some therapists might have an issue with your spying and could put some unexpected demand on you to continue being your therapist, such as admitting to your wife you are spying.

Telling the therapist about the 4 messages during sex and then it was all erased when you looked later is something which is perfectly fine to tell the therapist. It explains your concerns and suspicions.

FWIW, my wife has never been able to just let a phone ring without answering even during sex! I would know for sure something was amiss if she ignored it.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I was so thinking of this also...
> 
> BTW, should I tell MC about the VAR and what I found on it. When I went today, MC did mention someone at my wife's work could be why my wife is fixated about only work and distants herself from me and kids. We are supposed to go together next Saturday and I was hoping to sneak in a session before Saturday by myself. I could write down all the things I heard and found to be strange.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let's see if she keeps the appointment with you.

BTW -- could she have been talking about next weeks appointment (NOT apartment) on the VAR ?? That would mean someone knows about your IC and MC appointments --Someone with her making fun of the IC and MC -- just wondering


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I'm confuse..............Your wife comments "Wow,you're so f***ing bad" Then she reads the email out loud and it says I wish I had my effing apartment there" ... then she is laughing as she says again "so f**king bad". She's commenting on what the texts were but only read the one line of texts out loud.
> 
> This could be anything, but it sounds like someone in another area that does not live nearby that is saying that they did something nasty or wanted to do something nasty to her. It could be anythiong or nothing. It may not have anything to do with your wife or sex at all. Wish they had an apartment near your wife though is a wild card. Or it might just be they want to be in your city/area for whatever reason.
> 
> 
> Phone goes off 4-5 times while we have sex but I check phone later and not 1 text/email during that hour in her log. She deleted thR
> All
> 
> 4-5 texts while we have sex got an hour...I go check her phone later and alas. Not a text/email showing up in her phone log dusting that hour. She erased them all...
> DoingLife thought his wife had naked pictures of a friend of theirs and it turned out the camera and pictures was of someone who previously owned the camera.
> 
> Be wary but really you don't know anything yet.
> 
> It seems like she has really been doing a lot to make you/her happy lately. She evidently lounged around in her underware several hours getting herself worked up for your return. So do not be rash.
> 
> Have you thought about the logistics of an affair? When would she have time for one besides when she was supposed to be at work. She doesn't seem to be acting like most cheaters we see here.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Let's see if she keeps the appointment with you.
> 
> BTW -- could she have been talking about next weeks appointment (NOT apartment) on the VAR ?? That would mean someone knows about your IC and MC appointments -- just wondering


Nope, she did not know I made the appt for both of us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I would change your behavior right now. Keep on with the sex, if she has something you've already caught it. You want her feeling safe and bold so you can catch her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Oh, forgot to say... IC today went well. She say wife is massive Alpha woman and to change her and make her give up control is going to take a looooong time. Thinking now, nope, it's just going to take evidence and that's what I will get. Its amazing how calm I am...I am sure it's my mind saying "I was riiiiight"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You don't need to change your alpha woman and take control. You just need to asssume equal footing. The thing is you can't do that in anger or being a jerk. You do it with good natured personal, inner and outer strength. For example if she says something that crosses your personal boudaries, Smile and say " I don't think so sweet baby"


----------



## jh52

Shaggy said:


> I would change your behavior right now. Keep on with the sex, if she has something you've already caught it. You want her feeling safe and bold so you can catch her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think Shaggy meant NOT change -- I hope !!


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> I think Shaggy meant NOT change -- I hope !!


I think so also...cool as a cat now. Actuallu more clear minded than ever now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

Has she changed BB password ??


----------



## warlock07

Code:







jerry123 said:


> Yes, I am calm because it may just bring my feeling to an end and just know either way.
> 
> BTW, you'll like this. While i am at IC, she is sitting on bed and keeps checking texts, she is taking phone in and out of drawer by bed. Does it like 10 times before I get there. The strangest thing is, her phone (in the drawer) goes off 4-5 times (vibrates) while we are having sex. Thing is, I check her phones text/emails during the one hour sex and you guessed it NOT ONE DAMN TEXT/EMAIL SHOWING ON HER PHONE DURING THAT TIME!!!! Yup, all erased. I should have got up and grabbed her phone during sex and watched her face.
> 
> There are more red flags in one day than in 30 days. I will listen better at apartment thing (an appt. or my appt)I can hear it clear so I just need to turn up volume and try to understand why would someone be sending f words in a text followed by her saying "your so f'in bad". I know for a fact, no one she knows should be texting her those words and she should not be saying those back to anyone!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Upload the audio clip if you want to..You can bounce some ideas off us


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Nope, she did not know I made the appt for both of us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you tell her about the appointment -- and what did she say ?

If she won't go -- that is another alone opportunity for her -- which gives you a week to get more things in place.


----------



## keko

Is it possible for you to follow her on one of her lunch breaks?


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Upload the audio clip if you want to..You can bounce some ideas off us


Might be Tuesday when I can do this...

Yes, she knows I made that appt for both of us and was not overly happy, but did not say no. 

Password was not changed...Yet, but if she does then BINGO!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

keko said:


> Is it possible for you to follow her on one of her lunch breaks?


Or think about a PI when she is at work for her lunch breaks.


----------



## jh52

Thor said:


> Jerry, it looks bad but really don't make any concrete conclusions or decisions until you have good solid information. There could be innocent explanations, and we have seen that kind of thing happen on this forum.
> 
> As far as avoiding sex, yeah that is a good idea. There may be something you haven't caught yet from her but could still catch in the future.
> 
> If this is a work phone you need to be cautious since it doesn't belong to your family. Be sure you know how to remove and delete traces of whatever you install on it.
> 
> Also be careful about what you say and do. If all of this turns out to be a non-affair, you don't want to poison the marriage. As one member her found out recently his wife was having concerns about the marriage but she was not in an affair. The intel can be very useful in healing your marriage if that is the way it goes for you, but if she finds out you've been reading all of her messages she might be very upset.
> 
> Remember the cardinal rule if you do find hard evidence of an affair, which is never divulge your methods.
> 
> I think telling your IC about what is going on with your wife and what you've heard is ok. I have mixed feelings about the MC. You have to really trust him/her not to spill the beans. Some therapists might have an issue with your spying and could put some unexpected demand on you to continue being your therapist, such as admitting to your wife you are spying.
> 
> Telling the therapist about the 4 messages during sex and then it was all erased when you looked later is something which is perfectly fine to tell the therapist. It explains your concerns and suspicions.
> 
> FWIW, my wife has never been able to just let a phone ring without answering even during sex! I would know for sure something was amiss if she ignored it.


Is this her work phone ?? I forget !!


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Or think about a PI when she is at work for her lunch breaks.


I was wondering how much they cost....they would have to monitor lunches only since I have GPS in car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhoIsIt

The other thing to consider is that she's not using texts but some other app on her phone. Google Talk, I think, and Facebook Messenger are popular chat/msg apps that will buzz your phone but won't show up as texts.

If you can get your hands on it for 15 minutes in the bathroom or something, you could do some digging into her apps.

This could be a good thing or a bad thing. Good because it would explain you not finding anything and so no deleting/hiding. Bad because it means she could be chatting and you'll never know unless you can get into the phone.


----------



## warlock07

jerry123 said:


> I was so thinking of this also...
> 
> BTW, should I tell MC about the VAR and what I found on it. When I went today, MC did mention someone at my wife's work could be why my wife is fixated about only work and distants herself from me and kids. We are supposed to go together next Saturday and I was hoping to sneak in a session before Saturday by myself. I could write down all the things I heard and found to be strange.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Did the MC meet your wife or was it an assumption?


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Is this her work phone ?? I forget !!


Yes, it's a work phone. Something tells me I will only need a few days of software to find out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

MC has not met her yet, but trust me, I told her a lot of my wife's persona (total truth) She also threw out there that my wife may be depressed. But after hearing the VAR, and knowing my wife for a total of 17 years, she should not be saying those things on VAR, and repeating a text while in underwear and hiding phone in drawer while we have sex then getting messages that a few hours later don't show up on log. I would be a complete idiot to let this new evidence go...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

The neighbor might well be a red herring or a one time thing. You were worried about the work place to, right?


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> MC has not met her yet, but trust me, I told her a lot of my wife's persona (total truth) She also threw out there that my wife may be depressed. But after hearing the VAR, and knowing my wife for a total of 17 years, she should not be saying those things on VAR, and repeating a text while in underwear and hiding phone in drawer while we have sex then getting messages that a few hours later don't show up on log. I would be a complete idiot to let this new evidence go...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what I first thought (depression) when you said she just came home and went to bed -- BTW has that changed ??
Agree with your last statement.


----------



## Chaparral

If she is still going to bed early I would put a camera in to see how much she texts and what kind of actions /reactions she was making. You also would not have long to wait on that. Even a hidden camcorder could work for this, tape over any light on it though.


----------



## Chaparral

I explained this all to my wife, she doesn't think it is necessarily a big deal. she gets texts all the time from places like groupon, Reds baseball, weather etc. that she deletes as soon as she has read them.

Someone oanother thread suggested get the wife an Iphone. They are easy to track and get all the texts. Fromthe itunes backup/synch.


----------



## jh52

chapparal said:


> I explained this all to my wife, she doesn't think it is necessarily a big deal. she gets texts all the time from places like groupon, Reds baseball, weather etc. that she deletes as soon as she has read them.
> 
> Someone oanother thread suggested get the wife an Iphone. They are easy to track and get all the texts. Fromthe itunes backup/synch.


This is a work phone from Jerry's response earlier.


----------



## jh52

chapparal said:


> I explained this all to my wife, she doesn't think it is necessarily a big deal. she gets texts all the time from places like groupon, Reds baseball, weather etc. that she deletes as soon as she has read them.
> 
> Someone oanother thread suggested get the wife an Iphone. They are easy to track and get all the texts. Fromthe itunes backup/synch.


Chap -- Not to get you upset but has your wife ever gotten a text/email from these places that she would say:

"She is picking up and checking her phone quite often, 4 minutes in I hear her laugh and say "Wow, you're so ****ing bad" and repeats the email/text "I wish I had my ****ing apartment there" then laughs and repeats "so ****ing bad" and a few other laughs.

I also get texts from sources -- but none have ever made me say those words. Now the question is -- were they wanted words that she was happy to read from someone she knows -- or discuss that someone would say something in a text to warrant a response.

Also -- we don't know the contents of the all the words -- more importantly who sent them.

I hope this is all a misunderstanding and nothing is going on for Jerry's and his kids sake -- I was thinkng that -- until today. Nothing in concrete -- just more questionable responses from his wife.

More flags now than ever IMO.


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> The neighbor might well be a red herring or a one time thing. You were worried about the work place to, right?


Yes, I have a lot to figure out. Just so strange for her to put phone in drawer knowing I would be home soon waiting for her to be in sexy underwear. I was about 10-15 minutes late since session went over and I could tell by timeline of VAR and her constantly checking her phone for text and slipping it back in drawer. BTW, she was attached to phone today, all day!!! And it was supposed to be a day off....way to many red flags. The only path I have is BB spy software.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Yes, I have a lot to figure out. Just so strange for her to put phone in drawer knowing I would be home soon waiting for her to be in sexy underwear. I was about 10-15 minutes late since session went over and I could tell by timeline of VAR and her constantly checking her phone for text and slipping it back in drawer. BTW, she was attached to phone today, all day!!! And it was supposed to be a day off....way to many red flags. The only path I have is BB spy software.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am thinking she heard her phone vibrate while you guys were in session. Did this distract/hesistate for a second when the phone went off ? You asked how her day from work was since she was home and she said not too busy.

Maybe the opportunity has passed but when she said that her day was not busy == I would have asked her why is she constantly checking her phone all day.

Don't be in a confrontational tone -- but in a "i thought it could have been just us for a while today -- something different on a Friday."

Question -- this is also not usual behavior if I remember as she gives her phone to the kids to play games correct ??


----------



## Chaparral

jh52 said:


> This is a work phone from Jerry's response earlier.


Understood, my idea was to get her to use a different phone for her personal use. People fall in love with their iphones and Jerry would be able to see everything that she does on an iphone if he synchs it with his itunes, no?


----------



## Shaggy

jerry123 said:


> I think so also...cool as a cat now. Actuallu more clear minded than ever now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, blame it on the iPad!!! Yes, stay cool and just keep up what you've already been doing.

You know if she was watching a porno I could see he using it to get worked up for when you returned and the comments might make sense, but she was clearly checking her phone over and over - so it's more likely she was texting someone and checking for their replies.


----------



## Chaparral

Why don't you ask her? Say " by the way who was texting so much while I was ponding your brains out?" She didn't have any reaction to the phone going off while you were engaged in coitus? ( Sorry, I've just found BigBang Theory on tv.)


----------



## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> Yes, blame it on the iPad!!! Yes, stay cool and just keep up what you've already been doing.
> 
> You know if she was watching a porno I could see he using it to get worked up for when you returned and the comments might make sense, but she was clearly checking her phone over and over - so it's more likely she was texting someone and checking for their replies.


yes, it is way too clear that this is what she was doing....it is so obvious that i could have not thought about the 4-5 buzz from phone during sex. Thinking it was work stuff, but when she said work was slow and the "You are so ****ing bad" on VAR. C'mon, she only swears during sex or when she is worked up before sex...


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> yes, it is way too clear that this is what she was doing....it is so obvious that i could have not thought about the 4-5 buzz from phone during sex. Thinking it was work stuff, but when she said work was slow and the "You are so ****ing bad" on VAR. C'mon, she only swears during sex or when she is worked up before sex...


Sexing with you and sexting with someone else? Best of both worlds. Hope this isn't the case. 

Gather more intel.


----------



## Shaggy

Does she go up to bed before you ? I'm wondering if she's sexting up there when you are downstairs?


----------



## warlock07

jerry123 said:


> yes, it is way too clear that this is what she was doing....it is so obvious that i could have not thought about the 4-5 buzz from phone during sex. Thinking it was work stuff, but when she said work was slow and the "You are so ****ing bad" on VAR. C'mon, she only swears during sex or when she is worked up before sex...


F*ck!!! Let us hope you are wrong


----------



## Thor

Shaggy said:


> Keep on with the sex, if she has something you've already caught it.


Not necessarily true. That was my theory that I would only give her back whatever she gave to me. Bacterial stuff probably yes he has caught whatever she has. And it is curable with a antibiotics. But Herpes she might have but he hasn't caught it yet. If she has an outbreak then he can catch it. (I'm in that boat apparently right now, waiting until enough time passes to take the blood test.) HIV is somewhat difficult to pass female to male, so he might not have it yet but could catch it in the future.


----------



## jerry123

just downloaded spybubble to her phone, it will send sms/text messages to my control panel....should be an interesting day.


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> just downloaded spybubble to her phone, it will send sms/text messages to my control panel....should be an interesting day.


Good luck. Remember, if you uncover anything damning, please don't go off the rails. Get on TAM and talk to us first before you say or do anything.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> just downloaded spybubble to her phone, it will send sms/text messages to my control panel....should be an interesting day.


I am not sure if it will be today as if this is someone from work he/she may lay low if they have family. If it is someone else -- it could be today. 

Was yesterday the first time she was secretive with her phone ??

Also, take bandit's advice from above -- if you find out -- keep your cool and leave the house if you have to == just to keep it together.

I know you are prepared for the worst -- and think you know how you are going to respond -- but I can only compare this to watching a love one with a terminal desease -- you prepare all you
can/want -- but the day it happens really sucks.

Good luck Jerry.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> I am not sure if it will be today as if this is someone from work he/she may lay low if they have family. If it is someone else -- it could be today.
> 
> Was yesterday the first time she was secretive with her phone ??
> 
> Also, take bandit's advice from above -- if you find out -- keep your cool and leave the house if you have to == just to keep it together.
> 
> I know you are prepared for the worst -- and think you know how you are going to respond -- but I can only compare this to watching a love one with a terminal desease -- you prepare all you
> can/want -- but the day it happens really sucks.
> 
> Good luck Jerry.



Yes, yesterday she was very secretive about phone. Always checking it, and was getting upset that I would follow her into bedroom where her phone was most of day. I can tell she did not want me in there. 
I will be very calm, and gather all text I get. 

I just hope spy buddy can't be detected by her...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Make sure you save and back up those texts to a file she can't access. If what we think is happening is happening, and down the road you confront her, first thing she will do is try to erase all the evidence.


----------



## jh52

"Yes, yesterday she was very secretive about phone. Always checking it, and was getting upset that I would follow her into bedroom where her phone was most of day. I can tell she did not want me in there."

If she is back to her old self today with the phone not being an issue/secretive -- I would say the texts/email were from someone at work -- if I had to guess.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> "Yes, yesterday she was very secretive about phone. Always checking it, and was getting upset that I would follow her into bedroom where her phone was most of day. I can tell she did not want me in there."
> 
> If she is back to her old self today with the phone not being an issue/secretive -- I would say the texts/email were from someone at work -- if I had to guess.


So far, that's what it seems like. Yesterday her phone would require a password after 2 minutes, today it seems she changed that setting to every 15 minutes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

wow, crazy turn of events

this may be the longest investigation since the Zodiac Killer


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> wow, crazy turn of events
> 
> this may be the longest investigation since the Zodiac Killer


LMAO, eventually the zodiac killer was discovered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

jerry123 said:


> LMAO, eventually the zodiac killer was discovered.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


that's exactly what THEY want us to believe!!


in all seriousness, I hope this torture ends for you soon

I even mentioned that your wife may be a "part time cheater" who would be hard to catch and it appears that this could be the case


----------



## happyman64

bandit.45 said:


> Good luck. Remember, if you uncover anything damning, please don't go off the rails. Get on TAM and talk to us first before you say or do anything.



Bandit is right. No matter what you see or hear do not confront. Patience Jerry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Bandit is right. No matter what you see or hear do not confront. Patience Jerry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I did not restart phone though, I actually don't know how to. BB bold 9700. I know her password, would it ask me when I restart it? Or is it a different password...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I did not restart phone though, I actually don't know how to. BB bold 9700. I know her password, would it ask me when I restart it? Or is it a different password...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think you have to restart the phone.

Watch this video on youtube when you got a few minutes alone.

Spy On ANY Cell Phone using SpyBubble - YouTube


----------



## Shaggy

Jerry, 

I was think about the history here in your story. We have the odd behavior with the neighbor, the missing pills, the birthday song, and now the phone.

all very odd, but they will come together to make sense eventually. You're certainly not crazy.

Who ever it was on the other end of the phone, you know they couldn't talk to her outright or they would have called. That says someone at work, or at home with their spouse. 

If it is someone she works with, it's going to be harder to catch since they may only use the phone on days when one of them isn't in the office. 

Maybe you need to pop out for a while this weekend for a couple of hours and leave her alone there. Set it up so she knows she has some safe time.


----------



## Shaggy

Another thought is can you test it by sending her a message yourself, or do you never do that ? If so never mind, you don't want to do anything out of the normal.


----------



## Machiavelli

jerry123 said:


> yes, it is way too clear that this is what she was doing....it is so obvious that i could have not thought about the 4-5 buzz from phone during sex. Thinking it was work stuff, but when she said work was slow and the "You are so ****ing bad" on VAR. C'mon, she only swears during sex or when she is worked up before sex...


Probably sending the guy pix of herself all dressed up in play clothes.


----------



## iheartlife

Machiavelli said:


> Probably sending the guy pix of herself all dressed up in play clothes.


That was my thought.

I'm holding out hope it's a work GF and they were giggling over the demand to wear lingerie. Slim hope, but still there


----------



## Chaparral

I wonder if she was texting someone telling them she someone trlling them what she was doing to get ready for Jerry


----------



## bandit.45

chapparal said:


> I wonder if she was texting someone telling them she someone trlling them what she was doing to get ready for Jerry


Problem is, Jerry says she doesn''t have any girlfriends at work or outside of work. Hopefully its a gay male buddy.


----------



## Almostrecovered

and to boot this is real proof that she actively deletes texts


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> That was my thought.
> 
> I'm holding out hope it's a work GF and they were giggling over the demand to wear lingerie. Slim hope, but still there


Trust me, no girlfriends at work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity

Are you getting anything yet? because if she's messaging through BBM I don't think spybubble will pick them up because the service is encrypted by blackberry.


----------



## jerry123

Complexity said:


> Are you getting anything yet? because if she's messaging through BBM I don't think spybubble will pick them up because the service is encrypted by blackberry.


I could test it one day and text her then delete it. But with spy bubble you have to download each app (text,email, phone calls) but I just started with text. I will watch their video next week. Nothing yet though. Don't expect till weekday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I could test it one day and text her then delete it. But with spy bubble you have to download each app (text,email, phone calls) but I just started with text. I will watch their video next week. Nothing yet though. Don't expect till weekday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Patience my friend - patience !!


----------



## bandit.45

In the meanwhile, tap your wife as many times as she'll let you. I may be crude, but this may be your last hurrah for a while if it goes down like we think it might next week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TBT

jh52 said:


> Patience my friend - patience !!


:iagree:

Though it already seems like he has the patience of Job.lol


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> In the meanwhile, tap your wife as many times as she'll let you. I may be crude, but this may be your last hurrah for a while if it goes down like we think it might next week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am planning on doing just that, funny thing is as I gather more evidence and the fog lifting for me I am finding it easy to not initiate things with her. If she wants to have sex that's fine but I'm not begging for it. 

The VAR from Friday is just strange. Something tells me what I think is going on is just the tip of iceberg. But I am doing my best to act normal. She plans on drinking tonight while we do smores by a Bon fire with kids and a few friends. She rarely drinks so after a few beers and wine I'm sure I could have my way with her tonight. But will hold back since I'm kind of disgusted by her. On the other hand, when she gets drunk she lets me do anything to her. I may have to think of something new tonight. 

Hmmmm , handcuffs and then lose the keys...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Are you saying your wife has no friends? 

She's a VP, who is her assistant? How many people is she over?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Are you saying your wife has no friends?
> 
> She's a VP, who is her assistant? How many people is she over?


She is VP of a division in her work. Would take long to explain. She manages probably 30 people. No girlfriends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

It was a weird VAR recording. But looking at it optimistcally. She could have just been telling a freind what her and Jerry were going to be up to. 

If I remember correctly, she does not know Jerry can/does look at her phone. She doesn't hide it. However, her son plays games on it. She doesn't want her son seeing her texts etc. My wife regularly deletes my emails because my kids will pick up her phone.

Just sayin'. Bang away matey!


----------



## Chaparral

What about relatives?


----------



## jh52

"The VAR from Friday is just strange. Something tells me what I think is going on is just the tip of iceberg."

I would say her hiding the phone is more of a flag since you don't know who/what she was talking about fully. We know she talks to herself alot -- just try and stay positive -- but now for your tip of the iceberg comment.

You first thought it was scum bag neighnor -- have you changed you mind?

Do you have someone else in mind from work or anyone else in her life?

She doesn't travel -- her daily/weekend schedule doesn't change -- just asking if you care to share.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Tap dat ass


----------



## bandit.45

Almostrecovered said:


> Tap dat ass


:rofl:


----------



## warlock07

Stay objective and neutral until you find positive proof.


----------



## bandit.45

warlock07 said:


> Stay objective and neutral until you find positive proof.


Buzzkill....

tap dat ass....tap dat ass...tap dat ass...


----------



## warlock07

Definitely tap that ass ... I was more concerned that he is disgusted with her when he hasn't found any proof yet.


----------



## bandit.45

warlock07 said:


> Definitely tap that ass ... I was more concerned that he is disgusted with her when he hasn't found any proof yet.


Ahhh... gotcha. :thumbup:


tap dat ass....tap dat ass...tap dat ass...:bounce:


----------



## Shaggy

Tap tap tap tap tap.. Get it while you can tap it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

You know I was thinking you should have enough fun with her that if she is cheating you can one up the OM by saying, you know. I did XXX to her, and she loved it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> Definitely tap that ass ... I was more concerned that he is disgusted with her when he hasn't found any proof yet.


Realizing that she is such an Alpha female goes beyond what i want in a wife. Constantly on guard to squash her little comments and her waiting to see what my response will be. Damn, just be a loving and caring wife, and not a wife who is looking to "one-up" her husband. Sometimes i just don't have the energy to deal with her crap day to day...


Yes, i did "tap that azz" last night. I made it all about me though and was not concerned about getting her off. Not like me but in MMSG it says don't be worried about getting her off every time, make it about "me" once in a while. Worked out great!!


----------



## happyman64

Good for you Jerry.

Have a great weekend no matter what........


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> "The VAR from Friday is just strange. Something tells me what I think is going on is just the tip of iceberg."
> 
> I would say her hiding the phone is more of a flag since you don't know who/what she was talking about fully. We know she talks to herself alot -- just try and stay positive -- but now for your tip of the iceberg comment.
> 
> You first thought it was scum bag neighnor -- have you changed you mind?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have someone else in mind from work or anyone else in her life?
> 
> She doesn't travel -- her daily/weekend schedule doesn't change -- just asking if you care to share.



Neighbor has always been my first thought. Funny how this neighbor has not stopped by since he got back. 
If its a co-worker, it will be much harder to find out unless he texts her and I see it. 

Does not travel much, work schedule is same. 

BTW, she is sleeping now and she has a text on her phone but I did not unlock her phone. I will see later if text is still there or if she deleted it. If I unlock her phone now and look at text it will show up as read already. 

Spy bubble is not showing a text so I don't know if it's working correctly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I have to act normal, but I think she is in such a fog right now she does not know I may be on to her. She is in lala land.
> 
> BB curve 9700...I need the best software to get her red handed with texts. Can't wait to see her face!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you sure it is a BB Curve 9700 and not a BB Bold 9700 ??


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Neighbor has always been my first thought. Funny how this neighbor has not stopped by since he got back.
> If its a co-worker, it will be much harder to find out unless he texts her and I see it.
> 
> Does not travel much, work schedule is same.
> 
> BTW, she is sleeping now and she has a text on her phone but I did not unlock her phone. I will see later if text is still there or if she deleted it. If I unlock her phone now and look at text it will show up as read already.
> 
> Spy bubble is not showing a text so I don't know if it's working correctly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's why I asked if you knew where neighbor stayed when he was gone those 2 weeks and if apartment or hotel ??


----------



## jh52

jh52 said:


> That's why I asked if you knew where neighbor stayed when he was gone those 2 weeks and if apartment or hotel ??


You could read it and then delete it yourself or at least see the name and number it came from --- Be prepared

-- but I got a text this morning saying I won something from Target !! I don't even shop at Target or ever entered any contest.


----------



## jh52

jh52 said:


> You could read it and then delete it yourself or at least see the name and number it came from --- Be prepared
> 
> -- but I got a text this morning saying I won something from Target !! I don't even shop at Target or ever entered any contest.


F*** that idea about reading it yourself -- just remain patient and watch - observe.


----------



## bandit.45

jH52, why are you talking to yourself?


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> So far, that's what it seems like. Yesterday her phone would require a password after 2 minutes, today it seems she changed that setting to every 15 minutes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is her password the same ?? If YES

This doesn't make any sense if she is trying to hide something that she would just change the time before the phone locked and then required a password ? Unless when she is at work -- for security reasons -- she has it locked at the 2 minute mark in case she is in a meeting. Since she was home from work on Friday -- she may not have changed it till the weekend ? Have you ever noticed the interval change before -- have you ever looked ??


----------



## jh52

bandit.45 said:


> jH52, why are you talking to yourself?


Hi Bandit:

Because it's early and I had to many margaritas last night !!

Hope you are feeling better .


----------



## bandit.45

jh52 said:


> Hi Bandit:
> 
> Because it's early and I had to many margaritas last night !!
> 
> Hope you are feeling better .


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Neighbor has always been my first thought. Funny how this neighbor has not stopped by since he got back.
> If its a co-worker, it will be much harder to find out unless he texts her and I see it.
> 
> Does not travel much, work schedule is same.
> 
> BTW, she is sleeping now and she has a text on her phone but I did not unlock her phone. I will see later if text is still there or if she deleted it. If I unlock her phone now and look at text it will show up as read already.
> 
> Spy bubble is not showing a text so I don't know if it's working correctly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's probably irritated you didn't take him to pick up his car. I hope he's pouting.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Realizing that she is such an Alpha female goes beyond what i want in a wife. Constantly on guard to squash her little comments and her waiting to see what my response will be. Damn, just be a loving and caring wife, and not a wife who is looking to "one-up" her husband. Sometimes i just don't have the energy to deal with her crap day to day...
> 
> 
> Yes, i did "tap that azz" last night. I made it all about me though and was not concerned about getting her off. Not like me but in MMSG it says don't be worried about getting her off every time, make it about "me" once in a while. Worked out great!!


I think that is something that could easily be worked out especially with MC. She has just gotten into the habbit of trating you/people that way. You let her do that and it no doubt got worse. No more Mr nice guy.You have to amd are reearning her respect. 

Don't blow up your marriage without proof. I truly think the way she has been relating to you she wants you to be her husband and lover. You went a long way in giving up your role as a husband.

Be cool.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Are you sure it is a BB Curve 9700 and not a BB Bold 9700 ??


It's a BB Bold 9700...my mistake when I said curve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

jh52 said:


> Is her password the same ?? If YES
> 
> This doesn't make any sense if she is trying to hide something that she would just change the time before the phone locked and then required a password ? Unless when she is at work -- for security reasons -- she has it locked at the 2 minute mark in case she is in a meeting. Since she was home from work on Friday -- she may not have changed it till the weekend ? Have you ever noticed the interval change before -- have you ever looked ??



if I recall correctly jerry figured out the password without her knowing (may even had his kid do it?), I dont believe she has agreed to transparency either, so it does make sense


----------



## bandit.45

chapparal said:


> I think that is something that could easily be worked out especially with MC. She has just gotten into the habbit of trating you/people that way. You let her do that and it no doubt got worse. No more Mr nice guy.You have to amd are reearning her respect.
> 
> Don't blow up your marriage without proof. I truly think the way she has been relating to you she wants you to be her husband and lover. You went a long way in giving up your role as a husband.
> 
> Be cool.


I agree. The VAR recording is indeed ominous, but it could be totally innocent too. 

Sounds like she is getting totally turned on sexually by her husband's newfound aggressiveness and dominance in bed. 

Jerry needs to take his time and verify every bit of evidence he gathers. Something that may at first look like a smoking gun could end up being a red herring.


----------



## warlock07

Jerry, she has the data plan always turned on right?


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> F*** that idea about reading it yourself -- just remain patient and watch - observe.


I agree, will see if she deleted it. And yes, she gets Walmart/target text also. 

Neighbor stayed at hotel I assume while gone. It was all the way across country.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> Jerry, she has the data plan always turned on right?


Data plan turned on? it's a work phone. Sorry don't understand question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Is her password the same ?? If YES
> 
> This doesn't make any sense if she is trying to hide something that she would just change the time before the phone locked and then required a password ? Unless when she is at work -- for security reasons -- she has it locked at the 2 minute mark in case she is in a meeting. Since she was home from work on Friday -- she may not have changed it till the weekend ? Have you ever noticed the interval change before -- have you ever looked ??


Password is the same...I know for a fact she changed login intervals on Friday because I checked on about 2-3 minutes after she looked at it and it was locked. So far this weekend login interval is much longer than 2 minutes. Seems like she changed it to like 20-30 now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

jerry123 said:


> Data plan turned on? it's a work phone. Sorry don't understand question.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



The spybubble thing requires internet connection on the phone to work. Does she have it on the phone?


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> The spybubble thing requires internet connection on the phone to work. Does she have it on the phone?


Oh yes, that's how I was able to download spy bubble on her BB. It is showing phone in control panel on my PC but says no MMS messages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cledus_snow

i don't know, but it seems her "odd" behavior started up once this guy(neighbor) showed up again.

coincidence?


----------



## jerry123

Update: on VAR from the day i had IC. I was able to listen to it better. Very clear now...

Keep in mind, she is waiting for me wearing the sexy underwear. 

Her reaction from reading text/email: "Ha,Ha..****ing so bad."
Her reading out load the text/email: "Wish i had my college ****ing apartment there"
Her laughing for a few seconds...and saying "so bad"


Strange to say the least, but she does visit colleges as part of her job. If i remember she visited 3 since last year.
I will have to think about this for a while...

BTW, the stupid spybuddy screwed me up with monitoring text. If i goto control panel and access text it sends a notice to her phone saying that web site wants to have access to her phone.She seen that and asked me about it. I said my son might have went on her phone and went to a web site by mistake. Then she question seeing her phone the other day was not asking for password and wondered who went on it. Again i said my son had her phone and may have done it.

Don't know if she bought it but i know she is changing length of how and when phone sits to put in password. That is a red flag for me...Friday it was 1-2 minutes, then she changes it over the weekend to 20 minutes.

After seeing that notice come up she was acting weird, probably wondering if am monitoring her text and if i seen any. VAR is going this morning so if she calls someone instead of text thinking the text are being watched i will hear it...


----------



## warlock07

Well, she knows that you are spying on her. Pretty sure about it.


And how stupid can the software be. Is the name of the software hidden or did it come up as "Spybuddy needs to access the phone"?


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> Update: on VAR from the day i had IC. I was able to listen to it better. Very clear now...
> 
> Keep in mind, she is waiting for me wearing the sexy underwear.
> 
> Her reaction from reading text/email: "Ha,Ha..****ing so bad."
> Her reading out load the text/email: "Wish i had my college ****ing apartment there"
> Her laughing for a few seconds...and saying "so bad"
> 
> 
> Strange to say the least, but she does visit colleges as part of her job. If i remember she visited 3 since last year.
> I will have to think about this for a while...
> 
> BTW, the stupid spybuddy screwed me up with monitoring text. If i goto control panel and access text it sends a notice to her phone saying that web site wants to have access to her phone.She seen that and asked me about it. I said my son might have went on her phone and went to a web site by mistake. Then she question seeing her phone the other day was not asking for password and wondered who went on it. Again i said my son had her phone and may have done it.
> 
> Don't know if she bought it but i know she is changing length of how and when phone sits to put in password. That is a red flag for me...Friday it was 1-2 minutes, then she changes it over the weekend to 20 minutes.
> 
> After seeing that notice come up she was acting weird, probably wondering if am monitoring her text and if i seen any. VAR is going this morning so if she calls someone instead of text thinking the text are being watched i will hear it...



There is an off chance it could be the neighbor - her sharing with him her recruiting stories at the colleges, and him drooling and saying how he'd go after all the tail he could, etc. But this wouldn't be my first guess.

Part of this sounds good and part of it bad. I'll explain.

Since she visits colleges as part of her job, this makes a little more sense to me (remember, I work in the field she recruits for). My friend goes to recruiting trips down to colleges in this field also - there are sometimes some schmoozing of students, going to the bars, etc. It is very possible she is talking either with a coworker, or another recruiter in her industry. My guess is she is swapping stories with someone else in her industry. This person could be male or female. This person is probably talking about he/she wants to "get with" the college students. Your wife then says, "so f*cking bad..." meaning, that is SO wrong, type of thing, but with a devilish laugh. I actually think on the surface, this doesn't indicate cheating, but it's inappropriate and unprofessional. I'm assuming you'd be okay with unprofessional if it meant no cheating. This is my take on part of this sounding good. Of course, I could be off base - this is my take given the VAR context and her field.

The part that sounds bad, to me, is that she appears to be hypervigilant regarding her phone. She questions you right away. She sounds jumpy about that, and it could mean she is hiding something.

Regarding you saying she has no girlfriends at work - this doesn't have to be a close friend. People have acquaintences in their fields, whether at their own company or at other firms. It's impossible to not know anyone, or have banter with absolutely nobody. This person is likely someone in the industry that she knows, or it's somebody else that she knows that is familiar with what she does for a living - your W has definitely shared work stories with this person.


----------



## jh52

warlock07 said:


> Well, she knows that you are spying on her. Pretty sure about it.
> 
> 
> And how stupid can the software be. Is the name of the software hidden or did it come up as "Spybuddy needs to access the phone"?


I would call spybuddy support line and ask. This just doesn't sound right.


----------



## jh52

The part that sounds bad, to me, is that she appears to be hypervigilant regarding her phone. She questions you right away. She sounds jumpy about that, and it could mean she is hiding something.

Gabriel and Jerry:

My take is that she was highly protective of her phone on Friday -- which was a work day -- though she was on vacation. The changing of times the password being locked changes from work days to weekend. The kids use her phone on weekend to play games and she is not protective of her phone on weekends.

As far as asking Jerry about her phone -- of course she will ask. He confronted a couple of weeks ago -- with no proof. 

Now they are both on high alert !!

My 2 cents


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> Well, she knows that you are spying on her. Pretty sure about it.
> 
> 
> And how stupid can the software be. Is the name of the software hidden or did it come up as "Spybuddy needs to access the phone"?


No, it just said www.jada something but she did not write it down and I have not been to control panel since...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

jerry123 said:


> Her reading out load the text/email: "Wish i had my college ****ing apartment there"
> Strange to say the least, but she does visit colleges as part of her job. If i remember she visited 3 since last year.



um, wow could this mean she has a secret apartment near one of the places she visits?


----------



## Chaparral

Wish my college apartment were there sure sounds odd. Could be a recruiter, teacher or student.

But how much does she have to hide if she regularly lets her son play with the phone? If she is getting texts and her son stumbles on one it would be a disaster. Does she delete every text she gets?

Also you don't even know where they were talking about. Everyone is assuming there means near your wife, it could be anywhere they were talking about but you could not hear/see what they were texting about.

This could all be the worst thing in the world or nothing at all. 

I think you should get into some conversations with your wife about her job and the people she deals with and who she knows and why. Over time you might find something out. 

People here using their phones for affairs notoriously hang on to them like their life depended on it. 

I think you are doing great but I haven't seen anything that could not be explained away. Manning up is the way to go. You pretty much left a leadership vacumn which your wife filled and now you are reasserting control. There are bound to be hitches but I am truly surprised its going so smoothly.

Sex is the ultimate bonding tool with hormone/ love exchanges going both ways. Love/bang her into submission. If it were easy it wouldn't be worth it. With confidence and strength though it will be fun.


----------



## Shaggy

chapparal said:


> But how much does she have to hide if she regularly lets her son play with the phone? If she is getting texts and her son stumbles on one it would be a disaster.


Unless the AP knows never to text her on weekends only through the week.


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, whose idea was it for you to become a stay at home dad?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Wish my college apartment were there sure sounds odd. Could be a recruiter, teacher or student.
> 
> But how much does she have to hide if she regularly lets her son play with the phone? If she is getting texts and her son stumbles on one it would be a disaster. Does she delete every text she gets?
> 
> Also you don't even know where they were talking about. Everyone is assuming there means near your wife, it could be anywhere they were talking about but you could not hear/see what they were texting about.
> 
> This could all be the worst thing in the world or nothing at all.
> 
> I think you should get into some conversations with your wife about her job and the people she deals with and who she knows and why. Over time you might find something out.
> 
> People here using their phones for affairs notoriously hang on to them like their life depended on it.
> 
> I think you are doing great but I haven't seen anything that could not be explained away. Manning up is the way to go. You pretty much left a leadership vacumn which your wife filled and now you are reasserting control. There are bound to be hitches but I am truly surprised its going so smoothly.
> 
> Sex is the ultimate bonding tool with hormone/ love exchanges going both ways. Love/bang her into submission. If it were easy it wouldn't be worth it. With confidence and strength though it will be fun.



Yes, i am manning up and taking control...she is going to MC this saturday with me. MC won't bring up accusations unless my wife does.

I may just take a break from TAM for a while but will use all the advice i have gotten here. Will update if i get anything worthwhile...thanks all


----------



## keko

When is the next time she'll be going to a college?

Can you check spybubble if there is a feature to turn off notifications?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> BTW, whose idea was it for you to become a stay at home dad?


It was both of ours, since she made the same as me but had more chance for advancement.

I worked nights and she worked days, we never seen each other.


----------



## jh52

"I may just take a break from TAM for a while but will use all the advice i have gotten here. Will update if i get anything worthwhile...thanks all "

Take Care Jerry !!


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> When is the next time she'll be going to a college?
> 
> Can you check spybubble if there is a feature to turn off notifications?


I don't think anytime soon...

I think it's BB or work firewall doing that notification...as long as i don't go on control panel it does not come up.


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> Unless the AP knows never to text her on weekends only through the week.



Or week nights. It just seems harder and harder to make this look like an affair.

The hardest thing for me, is if she said exactly, 'what proof do you have" instead of "you could not possibly have proof of something I did not do". However, being accused, its hard to say what would come out of your mouth. She may have meant exactly what I said. In the right moment Jerry might ask her why she put it that way but it may not be important at all.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> It was both of ours, since she made the same as me but had more chance for advancement.
> 
> I worked nights and she worked days, we never seen each other.


Major problem with bonding, almost like a long distance relationship. Unless your starving make sure your new job does not conflict with family life. Lots of stories here with work schedule conflicts and long dsitance/traveling conflicts.


----------



## Thor

Another interpretation of the apartment comment is she is thinking back to her days as a college student, and then hears from a coworker some story of epic fun, and so wife thinks it would have been great if back in her college days she had been in that kind of place.

An innocent wishful thought iow.

Jerry, if you can, get that spybubble off of her phone. She might ask tech support at work to look at it thinking she picked up some kind of virus/malware via email.


----------



## jerry123

Thor said:


> Another interpretation of the apartment comment is she is thinking back to her days as a college student, and then hears from a coworker some story of epic fun, and so wife thinks it would have been great if back in her college days she had been in that kind of place.
> 
> An innocent wishful thought iow.
> 
> Jerry, if you can, get that spybubble off of her phone. She might ask tech support at work to look at it thinking she picked up some kind of virus/malware via email.


don't know how to get it off. I guess i can call support.


----------



## Shaggy

Jerry just slow down and chill at this point. Let your agents do their work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> Jerry just slow down and chill at this point. Let your agents do their work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I am. VAR may be my best friend right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Have you googled spybubble problems? You may be in damage control. If you can't get it off her phone you may need to hide your tracks by getting it off your computer. Plus delete any history of spybubble. If nothing is going on, you may blow up your marriage.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Have you googled spybubble problems? You may be in damage control. If you can't get it off her phone you may need to hide your tracks by getting it off your computer. Plus delete any history of spybubble. If nothing is going on, you may blow up your marriage.


took it off computer and my iphone. It is not showing notification on her phone as long as i don't go to control panel.

Also, re-listened to VAR gain.

Her repeating text: I wish i had that college "****ing" apartment there.
Meaning, an apartment used for ****ing.

There is no way she should be talking about a "****ing" apartment to a co-worker/neighbor unless it has a meaning to it.


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> took it off computer and my iphone. It is not showing notification on her phone as long as i don't go to control panel.
> 
> Also, re-listened to VAR gain.
> 
> Her repeating text: I wish i had that college "****ing" apartment there.
> Meaning, an apartment used for ****ing.
> 
> There is no way she should be talking about a "****ing" apartment to a co-worker/neighbor unless it has a meaning to it.


Re-read my last post. They recruit at colleges where there are young, attrative candidates. Your wife probably was talking about what it is like on these visits with the candidates, maybe even saying how hot some of the guys are, and this person wishes he/she had the "apartment".

When she travels to universities, does she stay overnight?


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Re-read my last post. They recruit at colleges where there are young, attrative candidates. Your wife probably was talking about what it is like on these visits with the candidates, maybe even saying how hot some of the guys are, and this person wishes he/she had the "apartment".
> 
> When she travels to universities, does she stay overnight?


I see, and no she does not stay overnight. 

Fact still is, she has deleted those text. And there are no emails that state that conversation. 
Why delete them??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Are you getting her texts today? Or has that failed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

jerry123 said:


> I see, and no she does not stay overnight.
> 
> Fact still is, she has deleted those text. And there are no emails that state that conversation.
> Why delete them??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or you aren't looking at the right application,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> Or you aren't looking at the right application,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, the spybubble sends a notification to her phone if I look at control panel on PC. She seen one of the notifications and showed me it. It did not state spybubble web site. I told her my son may have been on it the last couple days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

jerry123 said:


> No, the spybubble sends a notification to her phone if I look at control panel on PC. She seen one of the notifications and showed me it. It did not state spybubble web site. I told her my son may have been on it the last couple days.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What I meant was you aren't looking at the messaging app that she using on her phone. She may have all the messages still, but you are just not looking in the correct place to see them.

When you caught her on the var, did you hear beeps each time for the messages she was reading? Does the regular MSG app use those same sounds?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Just keep listening to the VARs. you'll get more info. Right now I think she is having some naughty conversations with a coworker or other industry professional about recruiting trips and she doesn't want you or anyone at work seeing them.

You, because you might get the "wrong" idea (if it is indeed wrong), especially since you accused her of cheating already. This would just add fuel to the fire.

Work, because it's unprofessional and inappropriate.


----------



## Complexity

spybubble has to be the dumbest app ever


----------



## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> What I meant was you aren't looking at the messaging app that she using on her phone. She may have all the messages still, but you are just not looking in the correct place to see them.
> 
> When you caught her on the var, did you hear beeps each time for the messages she was reading? Does the regular MSG app use those same sounds?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



No beep, because she ALWAYS keeps her phone on vibrate. 

I've been checking text but I know there is an app for BBM. I hit that app (BBM) and it first asks me to agree to something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Just keep listening to the VARs. you'll get more info. Right now I think she is having some naughty conversations with a coworker or other industry professional about recruiting trips and she doesn't want you or anyone at work seeing them.
> 
> You, because you might get the "wrong" idea (if it is indeed wrong), especially since you accused her of cheating already. This would just add fuel to the fire.
> 
> Work, because it's unprofessional and inappropriate.


Yeah, there were a few "Whoa's" like she was reacting to texts. Within an 1/2 before I got home she checked her BB like 10 times. When I did get home her BB was in drawer. She never did that before, and it went off 4 times. That's how I knew it was in drawer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vi_bride04

jerry123 said:


> No beep, because she ALWAYS keeps her phone on vibrate.
> 
> I've been checking text but I know there is an app for BBM. I hit that app (BBM) and it first asks me to agree to something.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is it just the standard "Data warning" message? Alof of apps now warn you that you will be using alot of data on your cellular network and to make sure you have the appropriate data plan...blah blah blah don't go over your data usage...blah blah blah...or use a wifi network since it using alot of data....

If that's the case, that message will come up every time you open the app no matter what and will be ok to proceed by clicking "I Agree"

Have you found any Facebook messaging apps on her phone? Google Talk? Skype? Yahoo Messenger? MSN?


----------



## jerry123

No other app, yeah I have not opened up the control panel and it has not come up on her phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cledus_snow

i don't think you need an app. to know she's being secretive about something.

spouses don't hide things from each other the way your wife has been doing recently.


----------



## jerry123

cledus_snow said:


> i don't think you need an app. to know she's being secretive about something.
> 
> spouses don't hide things from each other the way your wife has been doing recently.


i agree...


----------



## iheartlife

If my bb is on vibrate, it goes off for everything, texts, emails, reminders for appointments, and calls. There's no way to tell one from the other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Jerry, I was thinking maybe you should get yourself the exact same BB to play with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry, I wish you had stop right in the middle and pulled the phone from the drawer after the 4th time. You knew there was 4 msgs at that time. The only drawback, you would have exposed your suspicions again. Risk/reward, I would have. So next time if the situtiation occur, and you see her acting shady and watching the phone, be ready. But only in the same situtiation when you know she has not had a chance to get to it like then.


----------



## Humble Pie

jerry quick question, you said she has been sneeky with her phone lately, and got upset that/if you follow her to your bedroom (where she usually does her texting), since you are becoming the more dominate figure, why didnt you question this behavior of hers? Also, when her routine is to go up stair after dinner to "watch her shows" why aren't you joining in on this since we now know she is hidding something? Change your routine with her, when she gets mad or upset, and seems like she is seeking privacy, stand your ground.


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> jerry quick question, you said she has been sneeky with her phone lately, and got upset that/if you follow her to your bedroom (where she usually does her texting), since you are becoming the more dominate figure, why didnt you question this behavior of hers? Also, when her routine is to go up stair after dinner to "watch her shows" why aren't you joining in on this since we now know she is hidding something? Change your routine with her, when she gets mad or upset, and seems like she is seeking privacy, stand your ground.


That's just it, I am leaving dishes after dinner. Going up stairs and sitting with her. Last night was a bit of an argument when she seen the dishes sitting there. She thought I left them there for her which i explained I would just do them later or in morning. 

Also, I talked about how there is no intimacy in our marriage. Other than sex she does not hug, kiss, say I love u out of the blue. She tells me that married people don't do that all the time. So I realize I should read that book "5 love languages " I think it's called. 
I realize she thinks there are other ways she shows me love. Hers are just not the way I would like to be shown. 

I also will scale back trying to make her be more intimate. If she does in the future that's fine, if not then I can't make her...

I will stay focused on my goal of changing myself, keeping fit, being more Alpha less Beta. 

I know I said I would take a break from TAM, but there is great advice here. I will just take a break from writing about every little suspicion I get. Hey, there could be nothing going on at all but I truly believe if there is I eventually will find out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> That's just it, I am leaving dishes after dinner. Going up stairs and sitting with her. Last night was a bit of an argument when she seen the dishes sitting there. She thought I left them there for her which i explained I would just do them later or in morning.
> 
> Also, I talked about how there is no intimacy in our marriage. Other than sex she does not hug, kiss, say I love u out of the blue. She tells me that married people don't do that all the time. So I realize I should read that book "5 love languages " I think it's called.
> I realize she thinks there are other ways she shows me love. Hers are just not the way I would like to be shown.
> 
> I also will scale back trying to make her be more intimate. If she does in the future that's fine, if not then I can't make her...
> 
> I will stay focused on my goal of changing myself, keeping fit, being more Alpha less Beta.
> 
> I know I said I would take a break from TAM, but there is great advice here. I will just take a break from writing about every little suspicion I get. Hey, there could be nothing going on at all but I truly believe if there is I eventually will find out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like your plan -- 

Did you get a chance to make an IC appointment for yourself this week before MC on Saturday ?


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> I like your plan --
> 
> Did you get a chance to make an IC appointment for yourself this week before MC on Saturday ?


No, I was going to and talk about what I heard on VAR but decided against it. It does bring up red flags but still no concrete proof. If it were her reading the text and it saying stuff like "I wish I were laying there right now with you" then I would be worried but what she read could be interpreted as many things. 

Trust me, I'm not dumb and the things she said and have done the hour I was gone is not normal. But I have learned to just keep my eyes/ears open till she does mess up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Jerry,

I like your plan to. By the way, my wife does not say I love you much or any outward signs of affection. That is just her way.

But she does convey her love to me in other ways. We actually have conversations by various looks and hand signals. Our 3 daughters get a kick out of these silent conversations.

Then again after being with someone 27 years we better communicate in some fashion.

Just stop looking at every action of your wife's in microscopic detail or you will make yourself paranoid.

Work on yourself, work on your Alpha and keep being the husband and dad you are today.

If your wife is screwing around or having a power trip in her head you will eventually get to the bottom of it.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck jerry

Blind trust has been proven over and over to be false security. The more I see/read, I think most anyone may fall to temptation. Keep working on yourself, get back to work and keep your eyes/ears open. Keep the VAR in her car and one in the bedroom. I really think you should put a camera in the bedroom but that may be a little much.

The Five Love Languages has a test for you both on line that could be fun for you both.

The 5 Love Languages | The 5 Love Languages®

Most of all take back your life and be the husband/ dad you can be.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Good luck jerry
> 
> Blind trust has been proven over and over to be false security. The more I see/read, I think most anyone may fall to temptation. Keep working on yourself, get back to work and keep your eyes/ears open. Keep the VAR in her car and one in the bedroom. I really think you should put a camera in the bedroom but that may be a little much.
> 
> The Five Love Languages has a test for you both on line that could be fun for you both.
> 
> 
> The 5 Love Languages | The 5 Love Languages®
> 
> Most of all take back your life and be the husband/ dad you can be.



Thanks for the link...I did get that mini camera for $15 that someone posted in a thread. It's bare bones but will look at setting it up in bedroom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Just take your time Jerry. As long as you are dominating her in bed and keeping her satisfied, she will continue feeling comfortable doing whatever it is she is doing on the BB. Time is on your side. She will slip up eventually and the VAR, and now the camera, will catch her. If she's innocent, then you still get some nice movies of your wife as souvenirs. 

Stay on the path you are going with the working out, reading and self improvement. Those things will pay future dividends whether your marriage survives or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie

jerry123 said:


> No, I was going to and talk about what I heard on VAR but decided against it. It does bring up red flags but still no concrete proof. If it were her reading the text and it saying stuff like "I wish I were laying there right now with you" then I would be worried but what she read could be interpreted as many things.
> 
> Trust me, I'm not dumb and the things she said and have done the hour I was gone is not normal. But I have learned to just keep my eyes/ears open till she does mess up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes, i agree, this is not solid evidence. If you bring this up there will just be question marks towards you and you would be showing your hand with the spyware... just continue to monitor and something will keep poping up and we will then be able to piece the puzzle together... hopefully


----------



## jerry123

Hi all...

Found how to remove spy bubble from her phone via their web site... 

Blackberry Phones

To uninstall the application from a Blackberry device:

On the Blackberry device:

Step 1:

Press the Blackberry key->Options(wrench)->Applications->Select application to delete->Delete->Restart phone

Step 2:

Press the Blackberry key->Applications->Files->All Files->Locate Log.txt and Rimkey.txt files and delete both.

Step 3:

Remove the battery from the phone for 1 minute then reinsert battery. Phone will restart. If the phone does not restart automatically turn the phone on manually.

Step 4:

Reinstall the desired application by referring to that applications page in your user manual.


Grabbed her phone this morning while she was in shower, did what it says but low and behold...App was not there to delete. Don't know if it is supposed to be hidden but there was no application to delete.

Also, i was able to look on phone because she just checked it before shower. I also believe she may have changed password but if i would go ahead and try password it will show up as it being tried once. Need my son for this in near future...

I've been acting a bit different to her after she questioned me about the notification coming up. Kind of like i know something. She seems a bit nervous the last few days...


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> Hi all...
> 
> Found how to remove spy bubble from her phone via their web site...
> 
> Blackberry Phones
> 
> To uninstall the application from a Blackberry device:
> 
> On the Blackberry device:
> 
> Step 1:
> 
> Press the Blackberry key->Options(wrench)->Applications->Select application to delete->Delete->Restart phone
> 
> Step 2:
> 
> Press the Blackberry key->Applications->Files->All Files->Locate Log.txt and Rimkey.txt files and delete both.
> 
> Step 3:
> 
> Remove the battery from the phone for 1 minute then reinsert battery. Phone will restart. If the phone does not restart automatically turn the phone on manually.
> 
> Step 4:
> 
> Reinstall the desired application by referring to that applications page in your user manual.
> 
> 
> Grabbed her phone this morning while she was in shower, did what it says but low and behold...App was not there to delete. Don't know if it is supposed to be hidden but there was no application to delete.
> 
> Also, i was able to look on phone because she just checked it before shower. I also believe she may have changed password but if i would go ahead and try password it will show up as it being tried once. Need my son for this in near future...
> 
> I've been acting a bit different to her after she questioned me about the notification coming up. Kind of like i know something. She seems a bit nervous the last few days...


I don't get this. You were able to see her phone, but you think she may have changed the password? How did you see the phone then?


----------



## keko

Gabriel said:


> I don't get this. You were able to see her phone, but you think she may have changed the password? How did you see the phone then?


The password kicks in after 10-15mins of it being used.


----------



## lordmayhem

jerry123 said:


> Grabbed her phone this morning while she was in shower, did what it says but low and behold...App was not there to delete. Don't know if it is supposed to be hidden but there was no application to delete.
> 
> Also, i was able to look on phone because she just checked it before shower. I also believe she may have changed password but if i would go ahead and try password it will show up as it being tried once. Need my son for this in near future...
> 
> I've been acting a bit different to her after she questioned me about the notification coming up. Kind of like i know something. She seems a bit nervous the last few days...


I think she knows you're on to her now.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> I don't get this. You were able to see her phone, but you think she may have changed the password? How did you see the phone then?


She changes the allowed login time quite often. Last Friday it was every minute the phone was idle you would need to enter password. That was the day I was at IC and VAR picked up her checking phone 10-12 times in a span of 5 minutes while waiting for me to get back. It also picked up her running down the stairs looking out front door window to see of I was coming up road. Then running back to drawer to get phone and continue checking. Pulling in and out of drawer. The shades were drawn by her and I can tell she did not want to peak through shade in case I might have seen her. So hence, her running down the stairs getting to almost bottom and looking out the small window near our front door. 

Over the weekend the login time was changed to 20-30 minutes...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> I think she knows you're on to her now.


Yup...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## husbandfool

Wow, this has turned into a real cat-and-mouse game!


----------



## jerry123

Yeah, she knows absolutely nothing about VAR and GPS. Which right now is all I have to get proof. 

Funny thing is, we go to MC on Saturday...and the MC agrees that my wife may be a bit scared to face her since if anything is going on the MC may be able to tell by some basic questions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Hire a PI for a day, mostly to check her during lunch break.


----------



## jh52

What has the VAR in the car turned up this week ?

What has the VAR in the bedroom turned up this week -- is she still going to bed early -- and does she take her phone?

Did you install camera in bedroom -- anything on that front ?


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> She changes the allowed login time quite often. Last Friday it was every minute the phone was idle you would need to enter password. That was the day I was at IC and VAR picked up her checking phone 10-12 times in a span of 5 minutes while waiting for me to get back. It also picked up her running down the stairs looking out front door window to see of I was coming up road. Then running back to drawer to get phone and continue checking. Pulling in and out of drawer. The shades were drawn by her and I can tell she did not want to peak through shade in case I might have seen her. So hence, her running down the stairs getting to almost bottom and looking out the small window near our front door.
> 
> Over the weekend the login time was changed to 20-30 minutes...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Got it on the BB thing. But I would think it would be really easy for her to hear you come in, and have plenty of time to put the phone in the drawer before you came upstairs.

Maybe she was just excited for you to get home?? IDK, this whole thing is baffling. Can't figure it out yet.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> What has the VAR in the car turned up this week ?
> 
> What has the VAR in the bedroom turned up this week -- is she still going to bed early -- and does she take her phone?
> 
> Did you install camera in bedroom -- anything on that front ?


Nothing on VAR so far this week...

That camera for $15 is useless. Instructions suck and I can't get it to work. She does not take phone to bed. And not going to bed early....

I have been listening to the VAR from Friday and it's just so strange. Her actions and the little f words indicate its not just her reading a thing about work. There is no way the text/email were work related. I checked emails at the given time and there are none. And checked text, there are no text. She deleted whatever she was reading. I know you guys don't know my wife but I do. The VAR that day picked up some out of ordinary things my wife does. The only reason she would be checking her phone that much was if she was expecting text replys. For the most part emails are not checked every 40 seconds. But I can see texts being checked that often waiting for a response


PI would be expensive even for one day. And he won't be allowed in her building. She does have lunch interviews with potential hires as part of her job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

I think I've said it before but buy one of those pen shaped VARs and put it in her purse for one day. That might be your best chance to confirm or rule out a work place affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

whatever happened to the text extraction program?


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> whatever happened to the text extraction program?


The BB is password protected and he hasn't been able to get the password yet I think. If the BB is password protected, you can't get into the backup logs. My WWs BB wasn't password protected, so I was able to get into them.


----------



## jh52

Jerry -- Saturday is close. Just be cool and patient -- and see what MC brings out on Saturday.


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> whatever happened to the text extraction program?


Yeah, that stupid spy buddy or it could be her BB asking for permission to extract text to the web site. If I go on control panel it sends a notification to her phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> The BB is password protected and he hasn't been able to get the password yet I think. If the BB is password protected, you can't get into the backup logs. My WWs BB wasn't password protected, so I was able to get into them.


I'm sure her phone is firewalled good since its a work phone for a major US company. 

So there are backup logs somewhere? I do have her shower time to look for logs if there are any...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry -- Saturday is close. Just be cool and patient -- and see what MC brings out on Saturday.


I will...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelygirl

jerry123 said:


> Also, I talked about how there is no intimacy in our marriage. Other than sex she does not hug, kiss, say I love u out of the blue.


Sounds like she's having sex just to release it. 
Sex without intimacy sounds worthless. How can she be so cold?




> She tells me that married people don't do that all the time.


Ridiculous.


----------



## happyman64

JH is right. Just be cool.

Savor the fact that you have her running up and down the stairs and that she is hiding her phone in the drawer.

Savor the fact that she is doing something stupid and she knows you are onto her.

Savor the fact that she was waiting in lingerie for you after your IC appt.

Keep up the Alpha and keep sticking it to your wife Jerry. 

Patience. You have all the time in the world.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

lovelygirl said:


> Sounds like she's having sex just to release it.
> Sex without intimacy sounds worthless. How can she be so cold?
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous.


It is ridiculous...i told MC about the intimacy thing.

And forgot to add this, my wife has not wore her ring on her finger in 10-12 years. She told me years ago the gold makes her finger turn green (it's 18K gold)...the MC laughed.

She is very cold, one time i was having a bad day and almost broke down. She would not even come over and give me a hug. I told her a few months later how that made me feel, her reply was "well maybe i don't have as much empathy as most people"


----------



## Albert_32

jerry123 said:


> It is ridiculous...i told MC about the intimacy thing.
> 
> And forgot to add this, my wife has not wore her ring on her finger in 10-12 years. She told me years ago the gold makes her finger turn green (it's 18K gold)...the MC laughed.
> 
> She is very cold, one time i was having a bad day and almost broke down. She would not even come over and give me a hug. I told her a few months later how that made me feel, her reply was "well maybe i don't have as much empathy as most people"


sounds like my stbxw  when I was about to loose it and wanted some sympathy from her she told me to go see a shrink because she couldn't help me


----------



## domah

Basically, if she is already cheating on you, its too late; however, if she hasn't started cheating on you and the thoughts are only beginning to cross her mind, then you have a choice:


Accept that your marriage needs work, and that you will probably have to cater to her emotional needs for the rest of your marriage.
Do nothing, and have her cheat on you and/or leave her.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> It is ridiculous...i told MC about the intimacy thing.
> 
> And forgot to add this, my wife has not wore her ring on her finger in 10-12 years. She told me years ago the gold makes her finger turn green (it's 18K gold)...the MC laughed.
> 
> She is very cold, one time i was having a bad day and almost broke down. She would not even come over and give me a hug. I told her a few months later how that made me feel, her reply was "well maybe i don't have as much empathy as most people"


How long you two been together -- and married ?

Was she always like this -- even when you were dating ??


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> It is ridiculous...i told MC about the intimacy thing.
> 
> And forgot to add this, my wife has not wore her ring on her finger in 10-12 years. She told me years ago the gold makes her finger turn green (it's 18K gold)...the MC laughed.
> 
> She is very cold, one time i was having a bad day and almost broke down. She would not even come over and give me a hug. I told her a few months later how that made me feel, her reply was "well maybe i don't have as much empathy as most people"


My daughter is alergic to the nickle in gold. Find out from an allergy Dr. what metal she can wear. In your alph mode, take her out and give her a new wedding band that she is not alergic to. Platinum, titanium, white gold. Do not take no for an answer. Do you wear your ring?

Does she have a problem with gold post earrings? She should if she can't wear her rings.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> How long you two been together -- and married ?
> 
> Was she always like this -- even when you were dating ??


Total of 17 years dating and married. And oh no, she started this probably 4-5 years ago being an Alpha woman. Most likely me being a SAHD and her earning the money has made her a different person. I should have seen this years ago. MC says it will be very hard for her to give up control she thinks she will always have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> My daughter is alergic to the nickle in gold. Find out from an allergy Dr. what metal she can wear. In your alph mode, take her out and give her a new wedding band that she is not alergic to. Platinum, titanium, white gold. Do not take no for an answer. Do you wear your ring?
> 
> Does she have a problem with gold post earrings? She should if she can't wear her rings.


Does not wear any jewelry. And I don't remember if it actually did turn her finger green.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

domah said:


> Basically, if she is already cheating on you, its too late; however, if she hasn't started cheating on you and the thoughts are only beginning to cross her mind, then you have a choice:
> 
> 
> Accept that your marriage needs work, and that you will probably have to cater to her emotional needs for the rest of your marriage.
> Do nothing, and have her cheat on you and/or leave her.



I know our marriage needs work, but I am done catering to her needs. I am focusing on my needs right now. I am going to IC and MC knows about my suspicions of her. And did say it won't be easy changing her outlook since she has had the easy life for years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> Total of 17 years dating and married. And oh no, she started this probably 4-5 years ago being an Alpha woman. Most likely me being a SAHD and her earning the money has made her a different person. I should have seen this years ago. MC says it will be very hard for her to give up control she thinks she will always have.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, getting a job is in order. And platinum wedding band too. Could she possibly be stonewalling some other dude for a long time, telling him she's not married?

I couldn't stand the coldness - it's like she doesn't care about you. I haven't seen anything in this thread that would indicate she really cares about you much. She takes the sex because it feels good, not because she wants to be close to you or do something for you. Seriously, Jerry, take a minute and think about what has she done FOR YOU in the past several years since you've been a SAHD.

If you asked her, I guarantee she would say she's been bringing home the money for you, isn't that enough? Right? Sorry, but when men are the breadwinners we are expected to be emotionally supportive as well. Just because she's a woman breadwinner doesn't mean she gets to shut off and show you nothing else.


----------



## aug

jerry123 said:


> I'm sure her phone is firewalled good since its a work phone for a major US company.
> 
> So there are backup logs somewhere? I do have her shower time to look for logs if there are any...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She probably got her company's IT person to remove the spybubble from her phone?


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> I know our marriage needs work, but I am done catering to her needs. I am focusing on my needs right now. I am going to IC and MC knows about my suspicions of her. And did say it won't be easy changing her outlook since she has had the easy life for years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, this poster didn't read your whole story, clearly.


----------



## lovelygirl

jerry123 said:


> She is very cold, one time i was having a bad day and almost broke down. *She would not even come over and give me a hug*. I told her a few months later how that made me feel, her reply was "*well maybe i don't have as much empathy as most people*"


I.... I am speechless.

Why on earth would you STILL be with this cold/selfish woman?
How can a wife reply to her husband like that!!
If my husband was having a bad day I would turn the world upside down to make it easier for him. 

What a heartless woman your wife is!!!!

Can you imagine living _the rest of your life_ struggling and trying to win your wife's empathy?
Think about it...a type like her will become older and colder in the next 5, 10, 20 years...
..every single day.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Yep, getting a job is in order. And platinum wedding band too. Could she possibly be stonewalling some other dude for a long time, telling him she's not married?
> 
> I couldn't stand the coldness - it's like she doesn't care about you. I haven't seen anything in this thread that would indicate she really cares about you much. She takes the sex because it feels good, not because she wants to be close to you or do something for you. Seriously, Jerry, take a minute and think about what has she done FOR YOU in the past several years since you've been a SAHD.
> 
> If you asked her, I guarantee she would say she's been bringing home the money for you, isn't that enough? Right? Sorry, but when men are the breadwinners we are expected to be emotionally supportive as well. Just because she's a woman breadwinner doesn't mean she gets to shut off and show you nothing else.


Yup, bingo!! She/we bought me a BMW conv. Last year, a new lawn tractor this year. So to her, buying me "things" is her way of showing she cares. For the longest time it would be pecks on cheek when she went to work. I changed that after reading MMSG to me holding the back of her neck and kissing her on lips.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

lovelygirl said:


> I.... I am speechless.
> 
> Why on earth would you STILL be with this cold/selfish woman?
> How can a wife reply to her husband like that!!
> If my husband was having a bad day I would turn the world upside down to make it easier for him.
> 
> What a heartless woman your wife is!!!!
> 
> 
> That's why MC is in the picture. It will be interesting what she says to her. I will bring up these things Saturday. Something tells me I will be watching my wife win an academy award for her acting during the session.
> Can you imagine living _the rest of your life_ struggling and trying to win your wife's empathy?
> Think about it...a type like her will become older and colder in the next 5, 10, 20 years...
> ..every single day.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

aug said:


> She probably got her company's IT person to remove the spybubble from her phone?


Very possible, funny she did not say a word to me. Or is it funny.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Very possible, funny she did not say a word to me. Or is it funny.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My recollection when I looked at phone spyware is that it doesn't show up on the phone. That is the point. If you look in the bb app store there is a spyware (can't recall the brand) where they say it won't show on the phone. That is so the spy-ee can't see it to remove it. (The funny part is all the reviews angrily saying it doesn't show on the phone, but at least for that app it's right in the description.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kenmoore14217

jerry123 said:


> Very possible, funny she did not say a word to me. Or is it funny.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It guy would notify his superiors if something funny showed up on a corporate phone!! Unless said IT guy is closer to your wife than you know!!


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Yup, bingo!! She/we bought me a BMW conv. Last year, a new lawn tractor this year. So to her, buying me "things" is her way of showing she cares. For the longest time it would be pecks on cheek when she went to work. I changed that after reading MMSG to me holding the back of her neck and kissing her on lips.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How does she respond to the new you -- the good bye kiss and everything else -- leaving the dishes, not taking orders, you telling her when she puts you down immediately in front of family and friends?

After reading more here Jerry -- I think your wife is having an affair with 1) her job 2) her VP position at work 3) her controlling manner of you. 

We all change as we grow and get older -- she changed because of her career -- for the better (VP)-- and changed her home life with you and the kids for the worst (stopped loving and caring).

Saturday will be interesting because she needs to admit this change -- and also must be willing to become the wife and mother that you and the kids need -- while maintaining her strong personality at work. Saturday will be just the start.

Just my 2 cents -- again !!


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> How does she respond to the new you -- the good bye kiss and everything else -- leaving the dishes, not taking orders, you telling her when she puts you down immediately in front of family and friends?
> 
> After reading more here Jerry -- I think your wife is having an affair with 1) her job 2) her VP position at work 3) her controlling manner of you.
> 
> We all change as we grow and get older -- she changed because of her career -- for the better (VP)-- and changed her home life with you and the kids for the worst (stopped loving and caring).
> 
> Saturday will be interesting because she needs to admit this change -- and also must be willing to become the wife and mother that you and the kids need -- while maintaining her strong personality at work. Saturday will be just the start.
> 
> Just my 2 cents -- again !!


Yes, that is one of the things I wondered. She may think work is the most important thing. Still, it's just as damaging to a marriage if work is above family. 

She is taking it somewhat ok. Tried to yell at me for dishes not being done. I squashed that right away. It will not be easy to get her mindset to change. Might take years. She does ask me after parties if she said anything wrong. Most of the time I say yes, something tells me she just can't help herself but I will be letting her know right away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> My recollection when I looked at phone spyware is that it doesn't show up on the phone. That is the point. If you look in the bb app store there is a spyware (can't recall the brand) where they say it won't show on the phone. That is so the spy-ee can't see it to remove it. (The funny part is all the reviews angrily saying it doesn't show on the phone, but at least for that app it's right in the description.)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, strange how it says indectable but in the FAQ part of site it gives me those instructions to remove.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Yup, bingo!! She/we bought me a BMW conv. Last year, a new lawn tractor this year. So to her, buying me "things" is her way of showing she cares. For the longest time it would be pecks on cheek when she went to work. I changed that after reading MMSG to me holding the back of her neck and kissing her on lips.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Since she is a VP I expect there is a lot of pressure on her. I also expect she has had to put up with a lot from men at her job. No doubt she has to look over her shoulder for other prople climbing the ladder. This is almost certainly bleeding over in her personal life. 

I think you might be surprised to find that she can really be an equall partner in your marriage. I found it funny she thought you were leaving the dishes for her to wash the other day. How much does she do around the house? Some domestic help may be in order when you get a job. She might even think its great she doesn't have to play an alpha role in your relationship. You already said she likes you to dominate her in bed. Supposedly many high powered men like to be dominated by women in bed.


One thing that worries me is you seem to be getting angry and assuming she's cheating. So far everything is easily explainable as cheating or something completely innocent. Do not let paranoia ruin your family.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Yup, bingo!! She/we bought me a BMW conv. Last year, a new lawn tractor this year. So to her, buying me "things" is her way of showing she cares. For the longest time it would be pecks on cheek when she went to work. I changed that after reading MMSG to me holding the back of her neck and kissing her on lips.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Many people, according to The Five Love Languages, think buying gifts is the best way to show their love. My mom loved buying people things, I think because times were so tough back in the day. She went to work when most women stayed home to be homeakers. Have youtwo taken the love languages quiz?

If this is irritating you, send me the BEEMER, I already have a new John Deere though.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Very possible, funny she did not say a word to me. Or is it funny.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She would have to be a helluva actress to not give a clue she had to take spyware off her phone. Unless she thinks someone else might be responsible.

Maybe you should put something on your phone to make it look like you have been hacked too. Too obvious? Maybe you could just say your phone hasn't been acting right but you have no clue what might be causing it.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Yes, that is one of the things I wondered. She may think work is the most important thing. Still, it's just as damaging to a marriage if work is above family.
> 
> She is taking it somewhat ok. Tried to yell at me for dishes not being done. I squashed that right away. It will not be easy to get her mindset to change. Might take years. She does ask me after parties if she said anything wrong. Most of the time I say yes, something tells me she just can't help herself but I will be letting her know right away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You should have a prearranged signal to flash her if she says something disrespectful and the same for you. No, not a raised middle finger or a read between the lines. Maybe a Vulcan greeting/departing hand signal.

Not showing love, not showing as much affection is something many if not most couples fall into. It doesn't mean they have stopped loving , it just means they have deveoped bad habits from work, exhaustion, laziness, etc and are taking their partner for granted. Probably one of the biggest problems that sneak up on marriages. Communication is the key and easier said than done.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> She would have to be a helluva actress to not give a clue she had to take spyware off her phone. Unless she thinks someone else might be responsible.
> 
> Maybe you should put something on your phone to make it look like you have been hacked too. Too obvious? Maybe you could just say your phone hasn't been acting right but you have no clue what might be causing it.


The app is draining battery, although i am not going to control panel and checking since notification will pop up. She told me about battery draining this morning and she thinks my son did something to phone since he was playing with it last week...

I can contact spy bubble but they make me fill out a ticket and wait.

If her work can't find anything they may just get her another phone or new battery...by then i hope to have a way to delete app.

She is actually showing more hugging/kissing/snuggle...of course she is on her period now. Don't know if it has to do with MC tomorrow or her actually listening to the new "me".


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> The app is draining battery, although i am not going to control panel and checking since notification will pop up. She told me about battery draining this morning and she thinks my son did something to phone since he was playing with it last week...
> 
> I can contact spy bubble but they make me fill out a ticket and wait.
> 
> If her work can't find anything they may just get her another phone or new battery...by then i hope to have a way to delete app.
> 
> She is actually showing more hugging/kissing/snuggle...of course she is on her period now. Don't know if it has to do with MC tomorrow or her actually listening to the new "me".


Since she is a VP at a large company -- suggest to her to just get a new phone. That should not be a problem for her company.


----------



## happyman64

> She is actually showing more hugging/kissing/snuggle...of course she is on her period now. Don't know if it has to do with MC tomorrow or her actually listening to the new "me".


Probably both Jerry. Do not worry about the app and a new phone might give her better battery power and you can check to see if she adds new apps once she gets the phone in the applications menu.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> The app is draining battery, although i am not going to control panel and checking since notification will pop up. She told me about battery draining this morning and she thinks my son did something to phone since he was playing with it last week...
> 
> I can contact spy bubble but they make me fill out a ticket and wait.
> 
> If her work can't find anything they may just get her another phone or new battery...by then i hope to have a way to delete app.
> 
> She is actually showing more hugging/kissing/snuggle...of course she is on her period now. Don't know if it has to do with MC tomorrow or her actually listening to the new "me".


I can't remember, did you two do the Five Love Languages quiz?

Its an eye opener for most people.


----------



## Chaparral

I still think you should buy her her own iphone. If she's like everyone else she will fall in love with it and you can retrieve her deleted texts by synching it with itunes/icloud. A blackberry won't hold a candle to it although she could still use it for whatever, I think it is unlikely. She would use her iphone mostly.


----------



## Almostrecovered

work phone, she has no choice


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> work phone, she has no choice


I understand she will also have a work phone. My idea is that if she also has an iphone the work phone will most likely collect cobwebs. Would she just use her workphone for affair texts ? I doubt it. I would bet she would quickly use the iphone the most and continue deleting texts on it. However, the iphone texts can be retrieved.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I understand she will also have a work phone. My idea is that if she also has an iphone the work phone will most likely collect cobwebs. Would she just use her workphone for affair texts ? I doubt it. I would bet she would quickly use the iphone the most and continue deleting texts on it. However, the iphone texts can be retrieved.


Trust me, she does not want an iPhone since work pays for BB. Plus I have an iPhone and she thinks it's cool but is used to her BB for work stuff. 

Just thought of this, last December she would grab my iPhone from me for a period of 2-3 weeks and check my FB account and my texts like crazy. I of course never gave it a second thought since I had nothing to hide. Now that I think of it, wonder if she was looking for something to justify something she might have been doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I can't remember, did you two do the Five Love Languages quiz?
> 
> Its an eye opener for most people.


No we have not, but I will bring it up in MC or in a week. It's going to be a long process to change the way she views my job and her job. Right now she comes home to dinner, does not usually help clean up and does her own thing. It's slowly changing. Just like this morning when she questioned the dishes from last night pilled up. I told her that most days I will not be rushing after dinner to clean while she is watching tv. I said I'll get to them at some point and if it bothers her about dishes she can always clean them...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Trust me, she does not want an iPhone since work pays for BB. Plus I have an iPhone and she thinks it's cool but is used to her BB for work stuff.
> 
> Just thought of this, last December she would grab my iPhone from me for a period of 2-3 weeks and check my FB account and my texts like crazy. I of course never gave it a second thought since I had nothing to hide. Now that I think of it, wonder if she was looking for something to justify something she might have been doing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Possible, she may have also been looking for evidence you knew she was up to something. Most likely, something in your actions made her think something was up with you. However, you thinking she was doing something in Nov. may have been sending bad vibes to her which she took for a possible affair. You two just may be chasing each others tails.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> I said I'll get to them at some point and if it bothers her about dishes she can always clean them...


:smthumbup:

Any updates on you going back to "work"?


----------



## jh52

Jerry -- She works for a large company as well as do I and I have options which include what type of phone. We can get a BB or Iphone --I got the Iphone.

Tell her to check with work and see if she has this option. She may not even know this exists. 

Not saying she does -- but she could at least investigate and ask.

BTW --- Wishing you well in tomorrow's MC session.


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> Any updates on you going back to "work"?


Kids are in camp soon so I will have time to look, another idea I ran across her was me going back to school and getting into healthcare field. But going back to work is a no-brainer. I could do school at night then she could watch the kids and put them to bed. That would be a switch...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> No we have not, but I will bring it up in MC or in a week. It's going to be a long process to change the way she views my job and her job. Right now she comes home to dinner, does not usually help clean up and does her own thing. It's slowly changing. Just like this morning when she questioned the dishes from last night pilled up. I told her that most days I will not be rushing after dinner to clean while she is watching tv. I said I'll get to them at some point and if it bothers her about dishes she can always clean them...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey,,,,,,,,,,,,, I was just having an afternoon cup of coffe and this post made me spit coffee laughing!

I am really hoping you two can work all this out. I know other couples have done it here that were way worse off. (Unless something else turns up.)


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> Kids are in camp soon so I will have time to look, another idea I ran across her was me going back to school and getting into healthcare field. But going back to work is a no-brainer. I could do school at night then she could watch the kids and put them to bed. That would be a switch...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep in mind to have similar work hours, otherwise that's going to lead to another set of marriage problems. Good luck.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Jerry -- She works for a large company as well as do I and I have options which include what type of phone. We can get a BB or Iphone --I got the Iphone.
> 
> Tell her to check with work and see if she has this option. She may not even know this exists.
> 
> Not saying she does -- but she could at least investigate and ask.
> 
> BTW --- Wishing you well in tomorrow's MC session.



Thanks!! I will update how it went, I will be watching my wife and how she interacts with MC. My wife is not used to someone like a MC giving advice on how to help a marriage work better. You see, my wife thinks this arrangement is perfect for her. It seems she really does not care if it's not for me. This High Alpha woman is tough to deal with. I've jumped mine up quite a bit and I'm starting to see her back down to me on things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Kids are in camp soon so I will have time to look, another idea I ran across her was me going back to school and getting into healthcare field. But going back to work is a no-brainer. I could do school at night then she could watch the kids and put them to bed. That would be a switch...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell her to work from home a few days a week -- and you two can take a LONG lunch breaks !!! See how she responds to this -- even if she can't WFH. Another idea from the "new" Jerry !!


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Hey,,,,,,,,,,,,, I was just having an afternoon cup of coffe and this post made me spit coffee laughing!
> 
> I am really hoping you two can work all this out. I know other couples have done it here that were way worse off. (Unless something else turns up.)


LOL...What made you spit the coffee up? Here I'll do it again, she has never inserted dishes in dishwasher in 8-9 years. Looks like she will be learning pretty quickly how to use dishwasher in the next few days!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> LOL...What made you spit the coffee up? Here I'll do it again, she has never inserted dishes in dishwasher in 8-9 years. Looks like she will be learning pretty quickly how to use dishwasher in the next few days!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your so effing bad! You should show her how the dishwasher works as if you were teaching a child and see how much she enjoys condecension. 

Glad I finished my coffee but I still had to laugh. Hurt my sunburn though.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Your so effing bad! You should show her how the dishwasher works as if you were teaching a child and see how much she enjoys condecension.
> 
> Glad I finished my coffee but I still had to laugh. Hurt my sunburn though.


I was just thinking of doing that, like I would my 4 year old daughter. Now you put the tablet in here and you push the start button. Veryyyyy easy dear...at least it's a start.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Like my wife says, no no no don't put the dishes in like that. After she arranges them again I can't tell the dif. I know I was washing dishes long before her though.

Of course after you punk her you both can laugh about it.


----------



## jerry123

Forgot to tell you guys, she called me 10 minutes ago and questions if she should come to MC with me tomorrow. I said yes I want you to come. Why wouldn't you. She says " I'm just afraid the MC will make me cry." I said why would she do that. She says "just at some of the questions she might ask or something she might say"

Hmmmm, trying to figure that one out...I told her not to worry, she will be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Instead ask her do you have a reason to cry?


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Forgot to tell you guys, she called me 10 minutes ago and questions if she should come to MC with me tomorrow. I said yes I want you to come. Why wouldn't you. She says " I'm just afraid the MC will make me cry." I said why would she do that. She says "just at some of the questions she might ask or something she might say"
> 
> Hmmmm, trying to figure that one out...I told her not to worry, she will be fine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, that's very touching. Tell her not to worry that she will be with you.

Do not gang up on her. I think she is more vulnerable than you think.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Actually, that's very touching. Tell her not to worry that she will be with you.
> 
> Do not gang up on her. I think she is more vulnerable than you think.


We won't gang up on her, won't even bring up my suspicions. Mostly it will be the MC plan of steps to take toward a goal. MC tells me my wife has had it good for a long time and that is what has to change. I told MC about NMMNG book. When I left she looked up website, read some posts by author/readers and totally agreed a wife who thinks she has control in marriage is NOT a good thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> Kids are in camp soon so I will have time to look, another idea I ran across her was me going back to school and getting into healthcare field. But going back to work is a no-brainer. I could do school at night then she could watch the kids and put them to bed. That would be a switch...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're a tool and die maker! Why the hell would you want to go into the medical field? That's like being an astronaut and going to work for Arby's.


----------



## lovelygirl

jerry123 said:


> Forgot to tell you guys, she called me 10 minutes ago and questions if she should come to MC with me tomorrow. I said yes I want you to come. Why wouldn't you. She says " *I'm just afraid the MC will make me cry.*" I said why would she do that. She says "just at some of the questions she might ask or something she might say"
> 
> Hmmmm, trying to figure that one out...I told her not to worry, she will be fine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her conscience!
Deep down inside she knows there is a reason why the MC could make her cry....


hm. The story is becoming interesting!!


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> You're a tool and die maker! Why the hell would you want to go into the medical field? That's like being an astronaut and going to work for Arby's.


Tool and die is dead where I am. Economy sucks, manufacturing is done in Mexico or china. Healthcare can't be shipped to Mexico or china...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> Tool and die is dead where I am. Economy sucks, manufacturing is done in Mexico or china. Healthcare can't be shipped to Mexico or china...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That sucks.....


----------



## Acabado

> " I'm just afraid the MC will make me cry."


It sounds soooo inmature. She knows she must face some hard truths, she knows she doesn'tr treat you well. Time to face the music.


----------



## Chaparral

I'm guessing your wife isn't as strong as you think. If she was I don't think it would have crossed her mind to admit the MC could make her cry. She has been trying to avoid MC for quite awhile. Maybe you don't know how much she thinks you are considering leaving her. I'll bet to her she thinks she has been seeing this coming a long time. And now things are picking up speed. I think you should spend sometime reassuring her that this will make things better without backing down.


----------



## Machiavelli

jerry123 said:


> Kids are in camp soon so I will have time to look, another idea I ran across her was me going back to school and getting into healthcare field. But going back to work is a no-brainer. I could do school at night then she could watch the kids and put them to bed. That would be a switch...


This doesn't fix the problem short-term. I remember once when I was in grad school 30 years ago, my wife was up and dressed for work 7AM and I was still in bed after staying up to 4am studying. She was absolutely beside herself over the fact that she was having to go to work and I was "sleeping in" until I needed to get up and leave for class 40 miles away. This is standard female thinking, especially when you consider the fact she was the one who suggested I go back and get the master's. BTW, this was when she first started running up red flags, but in those days I was clueless.

Your wife will still be pissed and feel entitled to do whatever.


----------



## Chaparral

Machiavelli said:


> This doesn't fix the problem short-term. I remember once when I was in grad school 30 years ago, my wife was up and dressed for work 7AM and I was still in bed after staying up to 4am studying. She was absolutely beside herself over the fact that she was having to go to work and I was "sleeping in" until I needed to get up and leave for class 40 miles away. This is standard female thinking, especially when you consider the fact she was the one who suggested I go back and get the master's.
> 
> Your wife will still be pissed and feel entitled to do whatever.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## keko

Machiavelli said:


> This doesn't fix the problem short-term. I remember once when I was in grad school 30 years ago, my wife was up and dressed for work 7AM and I was still in bed after staying up to 4am studying. She was absolutely beside herself over the fact that she was having to go to work and I was "sleeping in" until I needed to get up and leave for class 40 miles away. This is standard female thinking, especially when you consider the fact she was the one who suggested I go back and get the master's. BTW, this was when she first started running up red flags, but in those days I was clueless.
> 
> Your wife will still be pissed and feel entitled to do whatever.


Mach have you posted you story? I always enjoy reading your posts.


----------



## Shaggy

So did the lock-time remain long all week and did the constant incoming messaging slow down??


----------



## Machiavelli

keko said:


> Mach have you posted you story? I always enjoy reading your posts.


Glad you like the posts. I never posted my story, mainly cause it makes me look like an idiot. GF of 4 years cheated on me 30 years ago. She dumped me for some unknown reason, then we got back together again (minus her cherry) when she came back. The second time we had a dday, but I had the good sense to not take her back twice. Both times the monkey had her hand on a new vine before she let go of mine.

Got married at 27, went back to grad school a couple years later. My wife used to run up red flags by the dozen when I was in grad school, but I was too stupid to figure it out. If anything bugged me, I would push it out of my mind; I didn't want to be "controlling." I never got proof of anything (no computers or cell phones back then), but if I told you what the flags were, you'd laugh your head off. I've been through this nonsense many times with friends and relatives in the last three decades, so now I know what I was seeing back then. Going to work without panties because it's hot outside? Made total sense to me.

I think she's been good for the last 25 years, but she does travel. She won't get on the computer and she says she'll never have a facebook page. Gee, I wonder why not? "I don't want any guys trying to contact me." 

Enough of this thread jack.


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

The crying thing raised my eyebrows but not necessarily in a "she cheated" way. It is a possibility but for me...

She realizes the jig is up. Jerry being more Alpha. Her world is changing. Her control is leaving the building. It could very well be that she realizes that she has made a mess of the marriage and is feeling guilt. That could explain her checking Jerry's Iphone last winter. "OMG I have treated my H like garbo I wonder if he has had enough of my crap and is seeing some skank". She realizes that she has treated Jerry and the family as a whole like dirt and maternally she feels guilt. She was getting away with things that she knew wasnt right but maybe got off on the power?

I tend to believe in this situation that she may have made some poor choices on this power trip. Maybe a college guy or two.. maybe a workmance... maybe the neighbour. Or not. Maybe it didnt go that far. We don't know for sure yet.

I think that she is scared sh!tless that her world is about to change and she is the one at fault. Jerry has carried her bags and maybe that time has ended. Can she carry her own bags now? She could be thinking that. Scared of that.

Is she by and large intelligent Jerry?


----------



## Chaparral

Jerry,

Hoping and praying your wife goes and can handle MC today. Hope everything goes well and you have one great counselor. To be honest I don't know how counselors are able to do what they do and carry that kind of responsibility.

I think there is a really good chance you two can take your marriage to a higher level with patience and love. Good luck today.


----------



## happyman64

Jerry,

I agree with chap. God Luck in MC today and o ot give your wife a oh ice today. She needs to go to MC today with you.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Thanks all...went well, she cried most of the time. I think it is more of the fact things are going to change and it caught her off guard. She is so used to the lifestyle we had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Take a while to collect your thoughts and tell us your perception of what she was thinking and feeling during the session. This is fascinating.


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Take a while to collect your thoughts and tell us your perception of what she was thinking and feeling during the session. This is fascinating.


I will... I have more to write but have to go get kids. VAR is set up in bedroom just in case she has the need to call someone. I am getting kids by myself. 

Told her about Alpha thing with me and said trust me, you will like it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> I will... I have more to write but have to go get kids. VAR is set up in bedroom just in case she has the need to call someone. I am getting kids by myself.
> 
> Told her about Alpha thing with me and said trust me, you will like it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am glad MC went well. I think it is good she cried. She is definitely feeling emotional. That is far better than a stonewall.

Keep going Alpha Jerry.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Also, would like to get opinions on this. In the next day or so I was thinking of telling her if this is going to work between us I need to know everything that might have went on now or in the past regarding if there was a OM. She will have that one chance to tell me and would never get another if I find out in future. 
I am not expecting a full confession after saying that but it will let her know I am not putting up with a 3 rd person in our marriage. 

I know I am reaching but I think I need to say this...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Also, would like to get opinions on this. In the next day or so I was thinking of telling her if this is going to work between us I need to know everything that might have went on now or in the past regarding if there was a OM. She will have that one chance to tell me and would never get another if I find out in future.
> I am not expecting a full confession after saying that but it will let her know I am not putting up with a 3 rd person in our marriage.
> 
> I know I am reaching but I think I need to say this...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are correct -- you are reaching. You already accused her once without proof -- and now you are going to accuse her again.

What good would it do. You have had the VAR in her car -- with nothing -- you now have a VAR in your bedroom with nothing -- her schedule does not change, she doesn't go out alone for any length of time.

My suggestion would be to continue to talk to your IC -- and your MC as I hope you both continue to go.

Get it out of your mind -- Like others have said here before -- you are obsessed with the neighbor. Don't destroy your marriage over this. 

If neighbor is in your mind -- then cut him out of you life -- don't socialize with him and his wife anymore. 

Why would you say there is a 3rd party in your marriage. YOU HAVE ABSULUTELY NO CONCRETE PROOF.

Fix your self/mind -- before it destroys you, your family and your marriage.

One more thing -- you are giving alot of POWER to your neighbor. You are taking some of the power back from you wife -- please take "ALL" the power back from your scum bag neighbor. Become the best man/husband/father you can be -- and be the man any woman would want. If your wife sees that -- she would be a fool to risk and destroy this relationship/marriage.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> You are correct -- you are reaching. You already accused her once without proof -- and now you are going to accuse her again.
> 
> What good would it do. You have had the VAR in her car -- with nothing -- you now have a VAR in your bedroom with nothing -- her schedule does not change, she doesn't go out alone for any length of time.
> 
> My suggestion would be to continue to talk to your IC -- and your MC as I hope you both continue to go.
> 
> Get it out of your mind -- Like others have said here before -- you are obsessed with the neighbor. Don't destroy your marriage over this.
> 
> If neighbor is in your mind -- then cut him out of you life -- don't socialize with him and his wife anymore.
> 
> Why would you say there is a 3rd party in your marriage. YOU HAVE ABSULUTELY NO CONCRETE PROOF.
> 
> Fix your self/mind -- before it destroys you, your family and your marriage.



Yes, I understand. BTW, neighbor guy has not been around at all. And I have cut him out of our lives. Feels real good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor

jh52 said:


> You are correct -- you are reaching. You already accused her once without proof -- and now you are going to accuse her again.


I agree she will see it as an accusation. BTDT. My motivation was to communicate that my #1 need in a marriage is open honesty. I had already asked her once directly if there had ever been any affairs. This was when I thought there had been an affair but it had ended. Plus some red flags in the far past.

When new suspicions were raised, I told her that if there was anything out there she had not told me, now was her chance. Not just affairs, but anything. If I found out from an outside source it would be a divorce. She took this conversation as a direct accusation.

Your wife should already know that it is a deal breaker if you find out about an affair. Don't tell her again.


----------



## bandit.45

Leave the adulterty questions alone for a while. Continue with the surveillance, but don't accuse your wife of anything while she is in an upset state. 

If MC works, and you get your wife to open up, and your intimacy with one another is renewed, at some point her conscience may start to eat away at her. The more she falls back in love with you, the more her conscience will prompt her to spill the beans about any affair she might have had or was thinking about having.

Let the process play out. Be patient and see where MC takes the two of you. Today might have been a turning point in your marriage.


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Leave the adulterty questions alone for a while. Continue with the surveillance, but don't accuse your wife of anything while she is in an upset state.
> 
> If MC works, and you get your wife to open up, and your intimacy with one another is renewed, at some point her conscience may start to eat away at her. The more she falls back in love with you, the more her conscience will prompt her to spill the beans about any affair she might have had or was thinking about having.
> 
> Let the process play out. Be patient and see where MC takes the two of you. Today might have been a turning point in your marriage.


Yes, I agree. 

BTW, did your wife come clean or did you find out later through proof? Meant for Thor...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

Jerry, it is still uncertain. In my mind anyhow. Friends and my sis say it is obvious she cheated. TAM members said everything from she was "obviously" a serial cheater, to my evidence is weak at best.

I would say I'm 90% sure she cheated from about 3 yrs ago to about 1 yr ago. There may be confirmation in another month when I go for HSV testing (plus the rest of the STD tests) due to what appeared to be a Herpes infection two months ago.


----------



## bryanp

Thor, not to hijack the thread but if you think she gave you something why are you not having her take a polygraph?


----------



## jerry123

Thor said:


> Jerry, it is still uncertain. In my mind anyhow. Friends and my sis say it is obvious she cheated. TAM members said everything from she was "obviously" a serial cheater, to my evidence is weak at best.
> 
> I would say I'm 90% sure she cheated from about 3 yrs ago to about 1 yr ago. There may be confirmation in another month when I go for HSV testing (plus the rest of the STD tests) due to what appeared to be a Herpes infection two months ago.


So sorry to hear that...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

bryanp said:


> Thor, not to hijack the thread but if you think she gave you something why are you not having her take a polygraph?


It comes down to the possibility that she has not cheated. I believe that asking her to do a polygraph would be the death knell to the marriage if she is innocent because of the overall fragile situation. The bottom line is she would refuse the polygraph, with nothing gained for me in the process.


----------



## aug

Thor said:


> I would say I'm 90% sure she cheated from about 3 yrs ago to about 1 yr ago. There may be confirmation in another month when I go for HSV testing (plus the rest of the STD tests) due to what appeared to be a Herpes infection two months ago.


Well she should be tested also, yes?


----------



## Complexity

Jerry you said the MC could tell by asking a few questions whether your wife has cheated or not, what was her opinion?


----------



## jerry123

Complexity said:


> Jerry you said the MC could tell by asking a few questions whether your wife has cheated or not, what was her opinion?


Oh, we did not bring up my accusations. We just talked mostly about the change I want in our marriage. I will write more monday. Busy day, oh and 90 minutes of hard sex last night. I was rough!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Oh, we did not bring up my accusations. We just talked mostly about the change I want in our marriage. I will write more monday. Busy day, oh and 90 minutes of hard sex last night. I was rough!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm impressed. Was your wife? ...................LOL


BTW I agree with the others about not mentioning anything at all about your suspicions right now unless you come up with something indisputable.

It must have been very affecting to see her weep through most of your MC. Seeing my wife break down or my girl friends back in the day just kills me.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I'm impressed. Was your wife? ...................LOL
> 
> 
> BTW I agree with the others about not mentioning anything at all about your suspicions right now unless you come up with something indisputable.
> 
> It must have been very affecting to see her weep through most of your MC. Seeing my wife break down or my girl friends back in the day just kills me.


During/After the MC session i was really surprised how confident and composed i was. Probably seeing her cry most of time brought her Alpha down and mine way up. Not to say i enjoyed seeing her cry but it gave me a boost, hard to explain.

The VAR/GPS are still only known by me.

I have not snooped on her phone for a while now. Waiting for an email back from Spy bubble on a way to remove app. She has not complained about battery being drained for a week now.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> During/After the MC session i was really surprised how confident and composed i was. Probably seeing her cry most of time brought her Alpha down and mine way up. Not to say i enjoyed seeing her cry but it gave me a boost, hard to explain.
> 
> The VAR/GPS are still only known by me.
> 
> I have not snooped on her phone for a while now. Waiting for an email back from Spy bubble on a way to remove app. She has not complained about battery being drained for a week now.


I think the boost you got by seeing her cry -- told you that she is not the cold hearted person who is not itimate most of the time and hopefully you realize that she does LOVE YOU -- sometimes with the day to day pressures we take one another for granted and stop doing the "little" things.

Strong and steady Jerry !!


----------



## RWB

jerry,

My wife had on and off affairs for years. There were times that she would go cold for many months at a time. No emails, no phone calls, no text... no contact with her AP. Why? She told me that, she feared I was suspicious, she was feeling guilty and wanted to stop cheating, whatever. Did it really stop? No. 

Point...I think you need to back off some. She knows you are suspicious. She is not going to confess. Lay low with your ears quietly listening.


----------



## Eli-Zor

RWB said:


> jerry,
> 
> My wife had on and off affairs for years. There were times that she would go cold for many months at a time. No emails, no phone calls, no text... no contact with her AP. Why? She told me that, she feared I was suspicious, she was feeling guilty and wanted to stop cheating, whatever. Did it really stop? No.
> 
> Point...I think you need to back off some. She knows you are suspicious. She is not going to confess. Lay low with your ears quietly listening.


Agree.

I am hoping not however I suspect she is laying low , be patient and keep an eye open.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

You learn to trust your gut around here. However, I read that women are 80% right when they trust their gut. Men are only right 50% of the time. I think this is simply because of a woman's child rearing abilities and mens natural paranoia in the overall scheme of things. 

While this is irritating, women can generally handle multitasking while men have to focus on one thing at a time. And thats even more irritating. Watching women drive and talk on the phone tends to refute this arguement while watching them in the kitchen and handling children at the same time supports it.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> You learn to trust your gut around here. However, I read that women are 80% right when they trust their gut. Men are only right 50% of the time. I think this is simply because of a woman's child rearing abilities and mens natural paranoia in the overall scheme of things.
> 
> While this is irritating, women can generally handle multitasking while men have to focus on one thing at a time. And thats even more irritating. Watching women drive and talk on the phone tends to refute this arguement while watching them in the kitchen and handling children at the same time supports it.



Yes, my head is much more clear now. A few weeks ago I was going over in my head all day how/why/when could she be cheating. I am much for focused on getting any concrete proof and not letting her see I will be still watching and waiting for her to mess up. 

If anything I have learned a lot about myself and if it comes down to she is cheating then I will be done with her and be able to move on with a fit body and mind. 

I've actually been getting hit on by a few women. And had to laugh at the bus full of high school girls waving to me while I drove my BMW comv. the other day. Made me feel 21 again, and oh yes, I waived back to them and had a big smile on my face...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

You have changed the dynamic.

Feels good doesn't it?


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> You have changed the dynamic.
> 
> Feels good doesn't it?


Yes it does....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BigLiam

jerry123 said:


> Oh, we did not bring up my accusations. We just talked mostly about the change I want in our marriage. I will write more monday. Busy day, oh and 90 minutes of hard sex last night. I was rough!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I went to one MC session with my first XW. The guy wanted to hear nothing about infidelity-NOTHING. MY XW never brought it up, and I was still in denial as to it having happened.
But, this MC was truly a quack. His name is Bill D, in Minneapolis.


----------



## MattMatt

BigLiam said:


> I went to one MC session with my first XW. The guy wanted to hear nothing about infidelity-NOTHING. MY XW never brought it up, and I was still in denial as to it having happened.
> But, this MC was truly a quack. His name is Bill D, in Minneapolis.


Maybe he was stunned by the large elephant in the corner of the room?


----------



## jerry123

Update: VAR picked up strange saying by my wife as soon as she left for work yesterday. We had a normal discussion right before she left, can't remember exactly what it was.

She gets in car, sits on seat and laugh's(snide laugh) then says "oh yeah, i'm beating him"

Which i can only think it was her laughing and thinking she still has the upper hand in this new "me". And she thinks by beating me at "something" is keeping the old way it used to be...

I am trying to think back at what we talked about in the morning. But, my gut tells me she is trying her hardest to shut me up and look as if she is giving me what i want in this marriage but at the same time playing that power game of things are not going to be different.
If she is doing this, my wife is a very strange, power hungry woman.


----------



## keko

Be rougher then usual, next time you have sex with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

jerry123 said:


> Update: VAR picked up strange saying by my wife as soon as she left for work yesterday. We had a normal discussion right before she left, can't remember exactly what it was.
> 
> She gets in car, sits on seat and laugh's(snide laugh) then says "oh yeah, i'm beating him"
> 
> Which i can only think it was her laughing and thinking she still has the upper hand in this new "me". And she thinks by beating me at "something" is keeping the old way it used to be...
> 
> I am trying to think back at what we talked about in the morning. But, my gut tells me she is trying her hardest to shut me up and look as if she is giving me what i want in this marriage but at the same time playing that power game of things are not going to be different.
> If she is doing this, my wife is a very strange, power hungry woman.


She's either bragging to a toxic friend, or to the OM. So now you know she's trying to play you. Doesn't this make you furious?


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

lordmayhem said:


> She's either bragging to a toxic friend, or to the OM. So now you know she's trying to play you. Doesn't this make you furious?


Re read what jerry said. She said this as soon as she got into the car.

She said it to herself. She is not trying to play him.

SHe is trying to beat him.

That is worse IMO.


----------



## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> She's either bragging to a toxic friend, or to the OM. So now you know she's trying to play you. Doesn't this make you furious?


She was not on phone, I believe she was just talking to herself and reassuring herself that she still has the upper hand. 

And yes, it makes me furious to think this is all a big joke to her. So F'in sick of these power games.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cubby

That's certainly a mystery as to what "Oh yeah, I'm beating him" means. One possible explanation: She's cheating and feels you're hot on the trail, but you're not quite capable of catching her and she's enjoying what she sees as your futile attempts.


----------



## jerry123

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Re read what jerry said. She said this as soon as she got into the car.
> 
> She said it to herself. She is not trying to play him.
> 
> SHe is trying to beat him.
> 
> That is worse IMO.


Yup, I think I am dealing with a woman who craves to have all the power in this marriage. 

She does not have toxic friends, because I know she does not have girl friends!! Which someone mentioned that is not a good sign.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cubby

Cubby said:


> That's certainly a mystery as to what "Oh yeah, I'm beating him" means. One possible explanation: She's cheating and feels you're hot on the trail, but you're not quite capable of catching her and she's enjoying what she sees as your futile attempts.


Of course all of us here on TAM disagree with her thoughts and are betting on you, Jerry! :smthumbup:


----------



## jerry123

Cubby said:


> Of course all of us here on TAM disagree with her thoughts and are betting on you, Jerry! :smthumbup:


Thanks!!! But you guys now see what I am up against. It so friggin energy draining dealing with this crap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

jerry123 said:


> Thanks!!! But you guys now see what I am up against. It so friggin energy draining dealing with this crap.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is it worth it living in the hell of limbo like this?


----------



## warlock07

Wait, did she say you name? She could be talking about some work competition. Or it could be totally innocent. We don't know the context. We can interpret many things from the single statement. 

Remember, you don't have any proof. Be cautious, be wary but don't treat her guilty yet


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> Yup, I think I am dealing with a woman who craves to have all the power in this marriage.
> 
> She does not have toxic friends, because I know she does not have girl friends!! Which someone mentioned that is not a good sign.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Stay vigilant Jerry. If we are starting to see her true colours, this is a woman who will NEVER confess. She will look at that act as a loss. And, simply put, she will abhor the thought of losing even one point to you. Take it from experience, she won't confess on that point alone.

I go back to my post thinking that she might have some guilt with regards to how she treated you. I wonder if that was all an act.

And I wonder if she is BPD? I am not completely familiar with that. Maybe someone who is in this thread can shed some light?

Going from crying about the marriage to wanting to beat your ass in one week is either an Oscar worthy performance or signs of serious issues.


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

warlock07 said:


> Wait, did she say you name? She could be talking about some work competition. Or it could be totally innocent. We don't know the context. We can interpret many things from the single statement.
> 
> Remember, you don't have any proof. Be cautious, be wary but don't treat her guilty yet


I think it is safe to draw the conclusion that this was about Jerry.

Discussion with Jerry>walking to car>sitting in drivers seat>"ya I'm beating him"

Unless Jerry is meaningless to her and she was thinking about work during the convo, she was running what happened thru her mind as she walked to the car.


----------



## jerry123

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Stay vigilant Jerry. If we are starting to see her true colours, this is a woman who will NEVER confess. She will look at that act as a loss. And, simply put, she will abhor the thought of losing even one point to you. Take it from experience, she won't confess on that point alone.
> 
> I go back to my post thinking that she might have some guilt with regards to how she treated you. I wonder if that was all an act.
> 
> And I wonder if she is BPD? I am not completely familiar with that. Maybe someone who is in this thread can shed some light?
> 
> Going from crying about the marriage to wanting to beat your ass in one week is either an Oscar worthy performance or signs of serious issues.


Yup, she shed the tears at MC like niagra falls. Then get in car and does not say a word for the 15 minute drive home. 

I will look up BPD, thanks. 

It was not work comp., i can totally see her saying that about me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

lordmayhem said:


> Is it worth it living in the hell of limbo like this?


I wonder this too.

The Roman army is down at the bottom of the hill.

Its you and a few others. Is it worth it to charge down there? 

At some point you have to wonder if it is a fight worth pickin.


----------



## WhoIsIt

My first thought was that she sat down in the car, looked at the clock, and thought about when she was going to get to work. Does she compete with anyone for parking and/or bragging rights on punctuality?

I guess without the context of your "normal discussion" it's really hard to say that she was talking about you. Did you walk away from the discussion with any sense of defeat?


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We can come up with 1000 reasons why she said what she said.

Good ole Slick Willy of Ockham hit the nail on the head imo.


----------



## WhoIsIt

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> We can come up with 1000 reasons why she said what she said.
> 
> Good ole Slick Willy of Ockham hit the nail on the head imo.


That's all good, but remember that we only have the context of Jerry coming here to talk about this. Of course the very first conclusion we jump to will be the worst. It's the standard practice here, because that's all we talk about.

If you step back for a second, you realize that there is no reason to assume that given what we know. That's why I asked for more context of the discussion. If they were just talking about the dinner menu or the Wisconsin election, why would she think she was "beating him?"


----------



## jerry123

WhoIsIt said:


> My first thought was that she sat down in the car, looked at the clock, and thought about when she was going to get to work. Does she compete with anyone for parking and/or bragging rights on punctuality?
> 
> I guess without the context of your "normal discussion" it's really hard to say that she was talking about you. Did you walk away from the discussion with any sense of defeat?


No, it was totally about me. I am racking my head to figure out exact discussion.

And she is back to her same old ways. Comes home, eats, goes upstairs. Does not offer to help.

She even told MC that her job is to go to work and my job is to stay home and do what i do.
Then she tells the MC that she does not expect me to come to her job and do her work, so i should not expect her to do my job....what a nice/kind wife i have!! NOT!!!


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Discussion with Jerry>walking to car>sitting in drivers seat>"ya I'm beating him"





WhoIsIt said:


> That's all good, but remember that we only have the context of Jerry coming here to talk about this. Of course the very first conclusion we jump to will be the worst. It's the standard practice here, because that's all we talk about.
> 
> If you step back for a second, you realize that there is no reason to assume that given what we know. That's why I asked for more context of the discussion. If they were just talking about the dinner menu or the Wisconsin election, why would she think she was "beating him?"



My above quote distills down the events to pretty much, obviously I wasnt there, the essense of what happened.

One could argue that the topic of discussion is irrelevant if one side believes it is a battle of wills.

If she does think that, they could have been talking about tiddlywinks. She "won" the conversation.

She "beat" him.

That is all that matters for competitive sorts.

Believe me. I had a competition once revolving around who could get their (hockey) skates tied up faster. :rofl:

We can be sick individuals at times.


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> No, it was totally about me. I am racking my head to figure out exact discussion.
> 
> And she is back to her same old ways. Comes home, eats, goes upstairs. Does not offer to help.
> 
> She even told MC that her job is to go to work and my job is to stay home and do what i do.
> Then she tells the MC that she does not expect me to come to her job and do her work, so i should not expect her to do my job....what a nice/kind wife i have!! NOT!!!


Not to play the gender card here...

BUT 

If a man in this day in age said that he would be castigated.


----------



## lordmayhem

Yeah, he would be labled some knuckle dragging neanderthal who is stuck in the 50s or some controlling jerk. And notice the MC didn't mention it.


----------



## jerry123

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Not to play the gender card here...
> 
> BUT
> 
> If a man in this day in age said that he would be castigated.


Basically, she has it set in her mind things are not going to change...so since i have control over only myself then i am working harder to change me. 
Will she choose to go along with "me"?... that's only a choice she can make.


----------



## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> Yeah, he would be labled some knuckle dragging neanderthal who is stuck in the 50s or some controlling jerk. And notice the MC didn't mention it.


I will be mentioning this friday when i go to IC!!


----------



## jh52

Jerry - If she just left home -- and got in her car in the garage or driveway -- it had to be you. If she said it driving to work after a period of time -- or once she arrived at work -- then I would say it would be open. My 2 cents !!


----------



## bandit.45

This woman is a card carrying narcissist. Sheesh!


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> This woman is a card carrying narcissist. Sheesh!


Hotchkiss' seven deadly sins of narcissism

Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:[6]

*Shamelessness*: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.
*Magical thinking*: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.
*Arrogance*: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
*Envy*: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
*Entitlement*: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
*Exploitation*: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
* Bad boundaries*: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.


My wife to a tee!!!!

The other day we are talking about vacation in July, she tells me that she will take naps, and wants me to nap with her. Then she said, when she is "done" with me (sex), she is going for walks on the beach. I was speechless...


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> Hotchkiss' seven deadly sins of narcissism
> 
> Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:[6]
> 
> *Shamelessness*: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.
> *Magical thinking*: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.
> *Arrogance*: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
> *Envy*: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
> *Entitlement*: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
> *Exploitation*: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
> * Bad boundaries*: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.
> 
> 
> My wife to a tee!!!!
> 
> The other day we are talking about vacation in July, she tells me that she will take naps, and wants me to nap with her. *Then when she is "done" with me (sex), she is going for walks on the beach.* I was speechless...


In general..

Has this always been your wife?

Or is this a recent change?


----------



## jerry123

TorontoBoyWest said:


> In general..
> 
> Has this always been your wife?
> 
> Or is this a recent change?


Thinking back, probably for years or since i became a SAHD. She was not like this our whole time dating or 5-6 years into our marriage. But then again, we both worked. We both did chores.

Last month when i asked her about not hugging me when i had a bad day...Her answer was "Maybe I'm not as Epithetic as other wives"


----------



## cabin fever

My buddy had this same problem with his wife that you have. 

He stayed home, and she worked. Thought when she got home that it was "ok" for her to relax cause she "worked" all day. 

what he did was this. 

NOT A F'n THING! when she got home, dinner wasn't ready, laudry stopped. Everything stopped when she got home. 

You see, yes she was at work during the day, but so was he. So he basically told her when you get off work, so do I. We can either figure it out together, or you can take your money hungry, power seeking azz, and go find someone else to be your little biotch boy!. Took a couple weeks, but she finally came down off her high horse. 

Even though you probably do quite a bit around the house. It doesn't matter. In her world you are just the puppet on the string. You need to knock her azz down HARD! It won't be easy, cause YOU have let it go this far. (not trying to be a ****, but you did put up with it thus far enabling her behavior) 

Just my .02 but I don't think she is cheating. I think she thinks since she makes the $$$$$$ you should do what she wants. 

Good luck.  But changing yourself isn't the only change you are gonna have to make.


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> Thinking back, probably for years or since i became a SAHD. She was not like this our whole time dating or 5-6 years into our marriage. But then again, we both worked. We both did chores.
> 
> Last month when i asked her about not hugging me when i had a bad day...Her answer was "Maybe I'm not as Epithetic as other wives"


Wowzers. :scratchhead:

Ok, so going back to something LM said and I agreed with, I think the question still stands...

Is this really something you want to fight over? At what point do you need to ask yourself if throwing in the towel isnt the smartest, healthiest choice.

It seems to me thru your posts that part of you is saying enough is enough......


----------



## Wanting1

Jerry,

I had a friend once. Just as we were getting to the point of being BFF's she made a confession to me about how she conducted all her relationships. She had this thing where she had to be "On Top." Those were her words. It was a power thing. If she felt the power had somehow shifted in the relationship, she would manipulate the other person in such away that she got back "On Top." It took me a couple of years to realize that she conducted our friendship in the same way. I witnessed her manipulate and control everyone in her sphere of influence. I dumped the toxic friend and hindsight gave me a very clear picture of all the crappy things she did to me during our "friendship" that I let slide. 

Your wife's "beating him" comment just brought that memory right back to me.


----------



## Acabado

Just sending strenth.
Stick to your plan for yourself, she will be forced to change or run away. You will be OK nonetheless.


----------



## jerry123

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> Jerry,
> 
> I had a friend once. Just as we were getting to the point of being BFF's she made a confession to me about how she conducted all her relationships. She had this thing where she had to be "On Top." Those were her words. It was a power thing. If she felt the power had somehow shifted in the relationship, she would manipulate the other person in such away that she got back "On Top." It took me a couple of years to realize that she conducted our friendship in the same way. I witnessed her manipulate and control everyone in her sphere of influence. I dumped the toxic friend and hindsight gave me a very clear picture of all the crappy things she did to me during our "friendship" that I let slide.
> 
> Your wife's "beating him" comment just brought that memory right back to me.


Yes, this makes sense. After going to MC Saturday with her and her little helps on weekend has turned into weekday being back to the way it was months ago before i told her things are going to change.

And the sex life better was just a "shut up" now to me. Makes me not even want to have sex with her.

Been reading narcissist disorder for the last 2 hours. It's all coming together like a mixed up puzzle. 

Thing is, the writings say a narcissist will continue to cheat (don't know if they meant affairs) as long as they think they will get away with it.


----------



## Halien

jerry123 said:


> Yes, this makes sense. After going to MC Saturday with her and her little helps on weekend has turned into weekday being back to the way it was months ago before i told her things are going to change.
> 
> And the sex life better was just a "shut up" now to me. Makes me not even want to have sex with her.
> 
> Been reading narcissist disorder for the last 2 hours. It's all coming together like a mixed up puzzle.
> 
> Thing is, the writings say a narcissist will continue to cheat (don't know if they meant affairs) as long as they think they will get away with it.


One think to keep in mind is that some experts say that NPD and BPD behaviors represent a sliding scale that we all fit within, to some degree. Those who are diagnosed just slide over to the extreme in those behaviors. Just saying that your wife might be displaying some traits that fit the pattern, but I'd urge caution about trying to peg her behavior on a specific disorder. You might become more fixated on proving that she has a problem than on fixing the behaviors in yourself that you wish to change, in the worst case. Unfortunately, it kind've looks like she turned her high earning status, and your stay at home status into a pecking order, of sorts, over time. When she begins to look down on you and your role in the marriage, it can become deeply entrenched. Even if her problems are not diagnosable, you could still be facing a challenge of taking years to reverse her role assumptions.


----------



## jerry123

Halien said:


> One think to keep in mind is that some experts say that NPD and BPD behaviors represent a sliding scale that we all fit within, to some degree. Those who are diagnosed just slide over to the extreme in those behaviors. Just saying that your wife might be displaying some traits that fit the pattern, but I'd urge caution about trying to peg her behavior on a specific disorder. You might become more fixated on proving that she has a problem than on fixing the behaviors in yourself that you wish to change, in the worst case. Unfortunately, it kind've looks like she turned her high earning status, and your stay at home status into a pecking order, of sorts, over time. When she begins to look down on you and your role in the marriage, it can become deeply entrenched. Even if her problems are not diagnosable, you could still be facing a challenge of taking years to reverse her role assumptions.


I hear ya...I've calmed down a bit but I am done playing this power game with her. I'm just going to work on myself right now. Get tips from IC and keep my eyes and ears open.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Not to play the gender card here...
> 
> BUT
> 
> If a man in this day in age said that he would be castigated.


And to many BH here, it was the reason their wives cheated


----------



## Complexity

warlock07 said:


> And to many BH here, it was the reason their wives cheated


Exactly. For all the talk of gender equality women _instantaneously_ lose respect for a SAHD. Whether it's something evolutionarily or psychological, women do not like being the primary breadwinners. And despite what they say, and I believe Jerry and his wife had an agreement about him giving up his career to become a SAHD, sooner or later nature kicks in.

Women are mysterious creatures indeed.


----------



## jerry123

Complexity said:


> Exactly. For all the talk of gender equality women _instantaneously_ lose respect for a SAHD. Whether it's something evolutionarily or psychological, women do not like being the primary breadwinners. And despite what they say, and I believe Jerry and his wife had an agreement about him giving up his career to become a SAHD, sooner or later nature kicks in.
> 
> Women are mysterious creatures indeed.


It took me a while but it is so true...

It was an agreement to leave my career 8 years ago, but more of a disagreement 5 weeks ago about me going back to work. She even told MC that she prefers me to stay home.


----------



## jh52

Then the playing field will be level and this will force her to be a better mom and wife !!


----------



## bandit.45

Hard part for Jerry is that he had a lucrative career before becomin a SAHD, but because of the economy his particular skill set is no longer in demand. Now he has to start over. He can't just leave the marriage. Sucks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cabin fever

jerry123 said:


> She even told MC that she prefers me to stay home.


Of course she does. She can keep dangling that carrot in front of your head. 

If you get a job, she doesn't have one up on ya.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Then the playing field will be level and this will force her to be a better mom and wife !!


I will see...

You should hear how snide that comment was the VAR picked up...it was like she was enjoying saying it and almost had a climatic sound to it. Friggin biatch!!


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Update: VAR picked up strange saying by my wife as soon as she left for work yesterday. We had a normal discussion right before she left, can't remember exactly what it was.
> 
> She gets in car, sits on seat and laugh's(snide laugh) then says "oh yeah, i'm beating him"
> 
> Which i can only think it was her laughing and thinking she still has the upper hand in this new "me". And she thinks by beating me at "something" is keeping the old way it used to be...
> 
> I am trying to think back at what we talked about in the morning. But, my gut tells me she is trying her hardest to shut me up and look as if she is giving me what i want in this marriage but at the same time playing that power game of things are not going to be different.
> If she is doing this, my wife is a very strange, power hungry woman.


She could have been talking about a guy at a stop light, stop sign, changing lanes , anything. Sounds like something I would say if I thought someone was dissing me or I was trying to get away from a light and change lanes.

There is no way to take this comment while driving a car to be taken personally. Jerry, you are becoming to willing to jump to conclusions. Occams razor is right, in a car its most likely to be a driving situation. Y

Your convo was evidently so innocuous you don't remember it but you think it set her off.:scratchhead:


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> She could have been talking about a guy at a stop light, stop sign, changing lanes , anything. Sounds like something I would say if I thought someone was dissing me or I was trying to get away from a light and change lanes.
> 
> There is no way to take this comment while driving a car to be taken personally. Jerry, you are becoming to willing to jump to conclusions. Occams razor is right, in a car its most likely to be a driving situation.
> 
> Your convo was evidently so innocuous you don't remember it but you think it set her off.:scratchhead:



She said comment while getting in car right after we talked in morning. I can confirm that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Seawolf

And yet the conversation was so meaningless you can't even remember the subject. How in the world could a pointless chat trigger the response you believe you have recorded? I would urge caution here pal, the fact is that over weeks of investigation you have nothing other than two, difficult to interpret sentences muttered to no one in particular. I'm sure glad my wife isn't recording my personal thoughts and then jumping to conclusions. The fact is, you have shaken up her world and this may be just one small way she is keeping herself together as she adjusts. 

You. Just. Don't. Know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> She said comment while getting in car right after we talked in morning. I can confirm that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would not say you are wrong and I haven't used a recent model VAR. How does the timing mechanism work? How do you know,for example, the time anything in particualar is said. I assume you heard the door slam. Car start and her remark. How do you know how much time has elapsed between events?

Doesn't the VAR start and stop when it detects sound?

In any event, if its about you, ask her this. " Honey you seemed upset with me this morning when you left. I can't remember what I even said can you remind me? I really did not mean to hurt your feelings." Say this with strength and self confidence but not with condecension.

BTW, if you want a hug go get one. I don't think of hugging my wife if she said she had a bad day but we do hug a lot.


----------



## MattMatt

jerry123 said:


> Update: VAR picked up strange saying by my wife as soon as she left for work yesterday. We had a normal discussion right before she left, can't remember exactly what it was.
> 
> She gets in car, sits on seat and laugh's(snide laugh) then says "oh yeah, i'm beating him"
> 
> Which i can only think it was her laughing and thinking she still has the upper hand in this new "me". And she thinks by beating me at "something" is keeping the old way it used to be...
> 
> I am trying to think back at what we talked about in the morning. But, my gut tells me she is trying her hardest to shut me up and look as if she is giving me what i want in this marriage but at the same time playing that power game of things are not going to be different.
> If she is doing this, my wife is a very strange, power hungry woman.


Or this was her thinking of a work colleague?

Or would that be wishful thinking on my part?


----------



## MattMatt

jerry123 said:


> No, it was totally about me. I am racking my head to figure out exact discussion.
> 
> And she is back to her same old ways. Comes home, eats, goes upstairs. Does not offer to help.
> 
> She even told MC that her job is to go to work and my job is to stay home and do what i do.
> Then she tells the MC that she does not expect me to come to her job and do her work, so i should not expect her to do my job....what a nice/kind wife i have!! NOT!!!


_*So the children are not her responsibility?*_ 

Wow! That's kind of F***ed up, IMO!

Seems to me she might not be having an affair, if only because she loves herself too much to bother!


----------



## bandit.45

Does your wife spend any time with the kids Jerry? Does she help them with homework, tuck them in bed, ...anything?


----------



## t_hopper_2012

bandit.45 said:


> Does your wife spend any time with the kids Jerry? Does she help them with homework, tuck them in bed, ...anything?


My question exactly. When during the week does she interact with them? How much is she involved with the kids on the weekends?


----------



## Chaparral

I think what everyone is wondering is whether or not she is a good mom.


----------



## OldWolf57

[QUOTE=Complexity; Whether it's something evolutionarily or psychological, women do not like being the primary breadwinners. And despite what they say, sooner or later nature kicks in

I agree. and she has developed it into a power game where she has to be on top. She may have cheated in the pass, but it seem her whole focus is only on control. Manipulating where she can, or relenting a little to "shut you up", until she can go back to having things her way. The sex,,, thats a bonus for her now,but also for you, so don't cut off your nose to spite your face. You both are winning in that regard. Look at that way she's gone back to her normal evening. She give a little help on the weekend, go MC, let you take her anyway you want, and says, Yeah I'm Beating Him. If she cheated, it was nothing more than another one up in the overall power trip. You probably didn't even mention going back to work the whole weekend, or at least since the MC session, so feel she is still winning. Did you look at the job ads this weekend ?? It is just not normal for a woman not to have a few friends, or work friends. It seem her whole focus is on you two


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

jerry123 said:


> She said comment while getting in car right after we talked in morning. I can confirm that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In Jerry's (and I guess mine by extension) defense with believing that the wife's comment was directed at him...

This is what is missing from the argument that it could be anything.

Jerry stated that the comment was made "as soon as she got in the car" to paraphrase. Not down the road. Or after a stoplight.

In taking that into consideration, it is not unreasonable to conclude that it was directed at him. I understand the idea that it could have been anything when taken out of a true context.

That is why I linked Slick Willy Ockham...

what is the simpliest hypothesis when

Discussion with Jerry>leaving house and walking to car>get in car> "oh yeah i've beaten him"

is taken into consideration as her next movements. 

If that is taken as the true course of events..

what else could it be that beats the "it was about Jerry" hypothesis?


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

Seawolf said:


> And yet the conversation was so meaningless you can't even remember the subject. How in the world could a pointless chat trigger the response you believe you have recorded? I would urge caution here pal, the fact is that over weeks of investigation you have nothing other than two, difficult to interpret sentences muttered to no one in particular. I'm sure glad my wife isn't recording my personal thoughts and then jumping to conclusions. The fact is, you have shaken up her world and this may be just one small way she is keeping herself together as she adjusts.
> 
> You. Just. Don't. Know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will say this again.

For an ultra competitive person...

*The basis of the conversation does not matter.*

It could have been about ants. Tiddlywinks. Bird dogs. [email protected] Sex. Doesn't matter.

The win is the important thing. It's all about the W.

She "won" the arguement/conversation/chat.


----------



## bandit.45

I agree with Wolf, Jerry.

Don't stop the dominant sex. Right now that is the ONLY positive that seems to be occuring in your relationship right now. Milk it for what it's worth while you can. 

The VAR is going to reveal alot more. Stow this last episode away and wait some more. If she is having an affair, she will screw up and reveal it.


----------



## OldWolf57

you see Jerry, it wasn't about the chat in the morning, I believe she thinks she is still winning after all you have done. The morning chat was normal, so she see it as meaning no more demands from you during the weekend. So all systems are go. Or, since you didn't mention cheating or separating at the MC, she is still winning. BUT, you know what ??? THATS ALL GOOD !!! That mean she figure its safe to hook up, so that gives you more chances to BUST her A**. So be on our toes this week, maybe find a reason or two to show up to take her to lunch or something. Or just be in the general area at lunch time and see if she goes out. This really could be the week, since she is so confident. Especially if you just happen to see that neighbor in the area since he is back.


----------



## Humble Pie

Jerry did you ever directly ask her why she was crying during the MC (sorry if you did mention it). I do remember you assuming it was because she feels like her "power" is shifting a bit. But did you get the real reason, her reason.

Also, you are committed to changing yourself, have you made a step in that direction (i.e. job hunted, enrolled in school, etc.)


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> Jerry did you ever directly ask her why she was crying during the MC (sorry if you did mention it). I do remember you assuming it was because she feels like her "power" is shifting a bit. But did you get the real reason, her reason.
> 
> Also, you are committed to changing yourself, have you made a step in that direction (i.e. job hunted, enrolled in school, etc.)


She told me she was crying because she was worried what MC might say to her. The thing is, if the years were real then I can only assume she thinks our marriage was just fine in the past. And now that I am shaking things up it is making her think that a change in me is not good for her since she will have to step up and do more than just go to work. 

To answer some questions in other post: She is at work from 7:00-6:30. She drives to a bus (state operated) that takes her into the city so she does not have to pay for parking which would cost $250 a month if she drove to city to park. Then bus takes her back to parking lot and she drives home from there. 

Then when she gets home, dinner is ready and then she goes upstairs to watch her shows. Does not help with clean up, dishes, homework, baths. She did help like 3-4 weeks ago but has drifted back to her old ways. 

As for getting a job now, kids will be done with school soon so it's more like sept for me to start. Schooling would also be an option but not till sept.

And as for VAR picking up that comment, I can only assume even if it was a normal conversation that morning in her mind things are going back to how they were. So I am now going to have to step up and make sure things don't go back to the way they were. It's so friggin draining for me to have to take care of kids, make dinners, laundry, pick up house and on top of it worry if my wife is a power hungry woman. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie

Jerry sorry, I am a bit confused so I must ask again. Your wife was crying DURING the MC session because she was worried WHAT the MC MIGHT say to her? The MC didn't say anything to her to make her cry but she was just crying as a defense mechanism to not be asked questions/talked to? 

Age of children?


----------



## Humble Pie

She told you that she was crying because she was worried what the MC might say to her? I could ask her a million questions based on this, did you give her any follow up questions from this reasoning?


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> Jerry sorry, I am a bit confused so I must ask again. Your wife was crying DURING the MC session because she was worried WHAT the MC MIGHT say to her? The MC didn't say anything to her to make her cry but she was just crying as a defense mechanism to not be asked questions/talked to?
> 
> Age of children?


She started cry the moment she sat down. So MC did not even start talking other than day nice to meet you. Most likely the anticipated questions made her cry. 

She also said that what we are talking about is very personal things and I believe she is emotional talking about our life to a total stranger. 

our kids are 4 and 10...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie

She cried the moment she sat down. And this whole time she has been refusing to go to MC. That in itself says a whole lot. 

Jerry, what are her season's why you both are in MC: communication issues, lack of respect, etc? What are your reasons for wanting MC? Another thing, is she open or is going to another session?


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> She told you that she was crying because she was worried what the MC might say to her? I could ask her a million questions based on this, did you give her any follow up questions from this reasoning?


She would not say a word to me on the drive home, but stopped crying the minute we were done with MC. Later that day I told my wife that she should not be upset that I am going to a MC, I am doing it to strengthen our marriage. 

The MC asked a funny question, she asked me if I were jealous that my wife goes to her high profile job and I don't do that. I said nope, I am more "jealous" of the fact she gets to come home and her day is done where as my job is not till kids go to bed. 

I made it clear to MC and my wife that for years I have given everything for them and nothing for myself but that is one of the first things that will change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie

jerry123 said:


> She would not say a word to me on the drive home, but stopped crying the minute we were done with MC. Later that day I told my wife that she should not be upset that I am going to a MC, I am doing it to strengthen our marriage.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What did your wife say to this response, "I am doing it to strenthen our marriage", didn't she know the reason before hand? Again what are her thoughts on why you both are in MC, I am questioning why she got so defensive and emotional going into the session. Why does she feel it is an attack on her? Am I missing something...


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> She cried the moment she sat down. And this whole time she has been refusing to go to MC. That in itself says a whole lot.
> 
> Jerry, what are her season's why you both are in MC: communication issues, lack of respect, etc? What are your reasons for wanting MC? Another thing, is she open or is going to another session?


She has no reasons for going to MC, she thinks we are just fine the way we were. 
At first my reason was communication with her, but now I see it as I can communicate fine now with her but things that I want to change only happen for 1 week then back to same old. 

At some point in near future my wife will go back with me. But I need to do IC to help myself stay focused and on track.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> What did your wife say to this response, "I am doing it to strenthen our marriage", didn't she know the reason before hand? Again what are her thoughts on why you both are in MC, I am questioning why she got so defensive and emotional going into the session. Why does she feel it is an attack on her? Am I missing something...


She said she understands that, but if she thought our marriage was fine before then why would she "understand" it. It's because she knows she has it easy with me being a SAHD. (her having power, no help with kids and chores). Feeling like an attack on her maybe because I am not happy with this arrangement anymore and things will be changing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie

If everything is fine the way they are, why the tears? I know you can't answer that but man the whole thing is so confusing. I have a social worker, counseling back ground (psychology/social work degree) and just that two conflicting aspects are intriguing me.

So do you remember what the conversaiton was the other morning you had with your wife, with her response we caught on the VAR?... also have you been spending more time with your wife when she goes upstair for her "shows"? Is the Var still in the bedroom to pick up on her actions (ie. texing, talking) as you were able to determine last Friday when you were at IC?


----------



## Humble Pie

jerry123 said:


> She said she understands that, but if she thought our marriage was fine before then why would she "understand" it. It's because she knows she has it easy with me being a SAHD. (her having power, no help with kids and chores). Feeling like an attack on her maybe because I am not happy with this arrangement anymore and things will be changing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Jerry, as others have asked, how much interaction does your wife have with the kids, does she tuck them into bed, get them prepared for the next day, homework, etc. Or is that all on your plate? 

Is she a happy woman Jerry? What is her moods like on a usual day to day basis?


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> Jerry, as others have asked, how much interaction does your wife have with the kids, does she tuck them into bed, get them prepared for the next day, homework, etc. Or is that all on your plate?
> 
> Is she a happy woman Jerry? What is her moods like on a usual day to day basis?


Not much interaction at all, it's all on me. She was helping a few weeks ago but not at all now. It's all about work for her. I am seeing she is more married to work than she is to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> I made it clear to MC and my wife that for years I have given everything for them and nothing for myself but that is one of the first things that will change.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't mean to rub it in, but here is the deal I finally struck, my husband comes home around 7:30 pm and he takes over with the kids.

He does not do the dishes or clean up, except to set the table so we can eat dinner together the 2 of us and then clears the dishes to the kitchen. (We eat together very late. A compromise I finally made after you-know-what.)

But he takes the kids upstairs, gets them in their PJs or supervises bathtime, brushes their teeth, reads bedtime stories, and then puts them to bed. Sometimes I go upstairs and put clean clothes away while he is doing all those things, or help find a set of clean PJs or what have you, but he handles bedtime.

The biggest reason for this is he doesn't see the kids otherwise except on weekends. When the kids were younger, this issue was a point of stress because he at least wanted help from me, but when I had a year of recovering from a severe leg injury, he HAD to take over. 

Maybe once or twice a week I put the kids to bed because he can't quite get home on time.

I'm not suggesting this arrangement to you, just pointing out that there are different ways of slicing the cake. And no, I don't do the dinner dishes which can get pretty disgusting, but basically I'm "off" for the night and done cleaning as soon as the kids go to bed and that's just the way it is. (Sometimes I'll do laundry while watching TV, but only if it's really stacking up, and it's kind of relaxing and not much of a chore.)


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> .
> our kids are 4 and 10...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has a 4 year old and has zero interaction with the child when she gets home? I could see the 10 year old being more self-sufficient, but sheesus, a four-year old is still a baby. Holy crap! 

Um....just why are you remaining married to this woman? 

.


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> If everything is fine the way they are, why the tears? I know you can't answer that but man the whole thing is so confusing. I have a social worker, counseling back ground (psychology/social work degree) and just that two conflicting aspects are intriguing me.
> 
> So do you remember what the conversaiton was the other morning you had with your wife, with her response we caught on the VAR?... also have you been spending more time with your wife when she goes upstair for her "shows"? Is the Var still in the bedroom to pick up on her actions (ie. texing, talking) as you were able to determine last Friday when you were at IC?


Can't remember what conversation was about the other morning. We were not argueing. 

I do go upstairs at night but she is more interested in her shows. 

I only put VAR in bedroom if I am out and she is home by herself. Her cell is in her briefcase most of the time she gets home from work. 

Still can't figure out the texting/comment from when I went to IC that Friday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Humble Pie

yea is a bit disturbing, why no interaction, is her job that mentally draining... but still. Has this ever been a topic of discussion, "why she doesnt seem interested in interacting with them, and more so her television". Break the damm television upstairs Jerry!!


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> She has a 4 year old and has zero interaction with the child when she gets home? I could see the 10 year old being more self-sufficient, but sheesus, a four-year old is still a baby. Holy crap!
> 
> Um....just why are you remaining married to this woman?
> 
> .


That's one of my biggest things with her....And i am giving this marriage some sort of hope but in the mean time i am making myself stronger(body and mind) in case it does not work. I have no doubt i can find another woman, but that will be something i do if our marriage does not work.


----------



## Subi

i really do feel for you jerry. You need to step up here. Housework is very boring and strenious. She needs to help more. Try telling her openly how you feel about it all. I can see that you are slightly weary of upsetting her and not really sure how to go about it. Just tell her you feel exploited and not appreciated enough. She whether she would understand yo predicament and help out say with kids bed time. Am surprised she is not jealous of just how much interaction you have with the kids. She would be scampering to catch up on lost time. Her nurturing skills aint too good either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> yea is a bit disturbing, why no interaction, is her job that mentally draining... but still. Has this ever been a topic of discussion, "why she doesnt seem interested in interacting with them, and more so her television". Break the damm television upstairs Jerry!!


She thinks it is her down time to watch tv and relax in bed.

And to say again, she thinks her job ends when she comes home and my job does not.


----------



## Humble Pie

weekends, since she is off work, how does she spend her days?


----------



## jerry123

Subi said:


> i really do feel for you jerry. You need to step up here. Housework is very boring and strenious. She needs to help more. Try telling her openly how you feel about it all. I can see that you are slightly weary of upsetting her and not really sure how to go about it. Just tell her you feel exploited and not appreciated enough. She whether she would understand yo predicament and help out say with kids bed time. Am surprised she is not jealous of just how much interaction you have with the kids. She would be scampering to catch up on lost time. Her nurturing skills aint too good either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks...

She is a high Alpha woman with low Beta i would assume...

She knows i want help with things, MC told me that don't expect a change overnight since she has been living the easy life for so long.


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> weekends, since she is off work, how does she spend her days?


She does spend some weekends doing things with kids, and the funny thing was before all this talk about change and helping out she would take 2 hour naps in the afternoons on weekend. 

It's all about her, when it comes to who she should focus on. When i read in detail about people with high narcissistic behavior it gave me chills...it is her right down to the last detail.


----------



## jh52

When was the last time she had a physical exam? If this just started 4 years ago (I think that is what you said before) I wonder if she has something that is not right with her hormone/blood levels. She also shows signs of depression -- at least IMO.

Not excusing her behavior -- but can you think of when she started acting like this -- was there any significant occurence in her life ?? Is that when you became a SAHD ??


----------



## Shaggy

jerry123 said:


> She thinks it is her down time to watch tv and relax in bed.
> 
> And to say again, she thinks her job ends when she comes home and my job does not.


Her job dioes end. Her being a member of the family doesnt. 

Her spending time with the kids, helping put them to bed, and things around the house is part of being a participating member of the family. 

It's her family commitment that she is shirking
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

Hey Jerry,

I have a radical suggestion for you.

Throw her F-in TV out the damn window right in front of her.

Then take her hand and bring her downstairs to sit on the couch with you and the kids on a week day nite.

Have some popcorn ready!!

Tell her this is her new downtime.

Then walk out the door and on the way out tell her to put the kids to bed by 8 or 9!!!!

Do that a few times and see if she gets the message.

No More Mr. Mom Nice Guy Jerry 123.......

HM64


----------



## bandit.45

Shaggy said:


> Her job dioes end. Her being a member of the family doesnt.
> 
> Her spending time with the kids, helping put them to bed, and things around the house is part of being a participating member of the family.
> 
> It's her family commitment that she is shirking
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Parenting is a joint venture between husband and wife, its not a job. She should WANT to interact with her children when she gets home. That's a motherly instinct. Something is seriously wrong with this woman.


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Parenting is a joint venture between husband and wife, its not a job. She should WANT to interact with her children when she gets home. That's a motherly instinct. Something is seriously wrong with this woman.


She had a yearly exam at OBGYN. 

Yes, we have gotten into this rut and will take time but she has got to want to change and help out more. Me yelling at her will only make her throw up shields and think I am doing this to spite her. That is her thinking. So I've been asking her to get bath ready and read to the kids. Not sitting there and screaming at her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhoIsIt

jerry123 said:


> She had a yearly exam at OBGYN.
> 
> Yes, we have gotten into this rut and will take time but she has got to want to change and help out more. Me yelling at her will only make her throw up shields and think I am doing this to spite her. That is her thinking. So I've been asking her to get bath ready and read to the kids. Not sitting there and screaming at her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you nailed that. Screaming at her to help isn't going to do anything but piss her off and give you a sore throat.

To be honest, she sounds like the husbands of a lot of SAHMs I know. They come home from work, eat dinner, crack a cold one, and jump on the XBox or PC for the night. Their wives don't ask them to help but they complain about it to their girlfriends. I've never really understood this mentality, but it seems really common among men (and the reaction is common among women).

I think you're handling that aspect just perfectly, though, Jerry. Instead of letting it build and build until you just blow up and leave, you're putting your foot down now. Keep it up!


----------



## MattMatt

Why would someone cry at an MC session, yet stop crying immediately after?

Worried that some tough questions might be asked? 

Like what? How about...

"Are you a bad mother?" "Bwahhhhh!"
"Are you having an affair? "Sob!"
"Exactly how happy ARE you in your high power, high income job?" "Boo-hoo!"

There's something wrong. It might be that your wife is suffering from a depressive illness. Post Natal Depression is one thing that comes to my mind. And yes, it can still impact on a woman when the child is 4 or even older.

Your wife might be suffering and somehow blaming you for her problems. (Well, you DID get her pregnant, after all...)


----------



## WhoIsIt

I thought the crying was pretty weird, too.

Timer starts, here come those tears.
Timer stops, tears dry up.

Jerry, has she been known to be manipulative with someone's emotions in the past? Is she a good actress?


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## MattMatt

WhoIsIt said:


> I thought the crying was pretty weird, too.
> 
> Timer starts, here come those tears.
> Timer stops, tears dry up.
> 
> Jerry, has she been known to be manipulative with someone's emotions in the past? Is she a good actress?


Or it was a defence mechanism? Hard questions might be asked, so the crying started. MC over = no hard questions, crying stops!

It's possible she might not have done it consciously.


----------



## jerry123

WhoIsIt said:


> I thought the crying was pretty weird, too.
> 
> Timer starts, here come those tears.
> Timer stops, tears dry up.
> 
> Jerry, has she been known to be manipulative with someone's emotions in the past? Is she a good actress?


In the past, hmmm...I've know her for 17 years. She was not always like this. 

And yes, I think she should have won an award for the MC day performance. 

Even MC said depression could be a factor from my description of her the second time in IC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

MattMatt said:


> Or it was a defence mechanism? Hard questions might be asked, so the crying started. MC over = no hard questions, crying stops!
> 
> It's possible she might not have done it consciously.


I agree...

Can't wait for my IC tomorrow...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> In the past, hmmm...I've know her for 17 years. She was not always like this.
> 
> And yes, I think she should have won an award for the MC day performance.
> 
> Even MC said depression could be a factor from my description of her the second time in IC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is there any chance she hates her job but she knows she can't quit? And that she doesn't want to stay home, either? That she feels trapped (although some people would kill for a trap like this).


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> Is there any chance she hates her job but she knows she can't quit? And that she doesn't want to stay home, either? That she feels trapped (although some people would kill for a trap like this).


She has mentioned a few things about her job. She has meetings all day, and has made a comment that she had been talking to people all day and just wants to come home and go upstairs and it to be silent.
Well, I've had my 4 YO all day and not one adult conversation. I would like quiet time also but I make an effort to talk to my wife. 

I know roles are totally reversed to the norm. There is a lot of pressure to be the breadwinner. But I'm seeing more and more that she sees my role as much less important than hers. And that's not good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> She has mentioned a few things about her job. She has meetings all day, and has made a comment that she had been talking to people all day and just wants to come home and go upstairs and it to be silent.
> Well, I've had my 4 YO all day and not one adult conversation. I would like quiet time also but I make an effort to talk to my wife.
> 
> I know roles are totally reversed to the norm. There is a lot of pressure to be the breadwinner. But I'm seeing more and more that she sees my role as much less important than hers. And that's not good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is the crux of the problem. She sees her role as more important. That is the perception you need to change.

Damn Jerry, i am going to start helping my wife with the kids homework more often......

Even I take my wife for granted sometimes. Never too old to learn I guess.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> That is the crux of the problem. She sees her role as more important. That is the perception you need to change.
> 
> Damn Jerry, i am going to start helping my wife with the kids homework more often......
> 
> Even I take my wife for granted sometimes. Never too old to learn I guess.
> 
> HM64
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL...

If my wife is depressed or shows high level of narcissistic behavior then i have a long way to go...


----------



## Shaggy

Kerry I think you need a job. It will redefine the dynamic entirely. 

Hire a nanny if you need too .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> LOL...
> 
> If my wife is depressed or shows high level of narcissistic behavior then i have a long way to go...


I totally agree. NPD is a [email protected] to deal with in a spouse.

I might have a link or two on NPD. I will dig up some info and if it pertains I will share it with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> Kerry I think you need a job. It will redefine the dynamic entirely.
> 
> Hire a nanny if you need too .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I know...my kids will be full time school in sept. I am going to look in summer for a job or school in sept.


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> I totally agree. NPD is a [email protected] to deal with in a spouse.
> 
> I might have a link or two on NPD. I will dig up some info and if it pertains I will share it with you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thanks!!


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> She has mentioned a few things about her job. She has meetings all day, and has made a comment that she had been talking to people all day and just wants to come home and go upstairs and it to be silent.
> Well, I've had my 4 YO all day and not one adult conversation. I would like quiet time also but I make an effort to talk to my wife.
> 
> I know roles are totally reversed to the norm. There is a lot of pressure to be the breadwinner. But I'm seeing more and more that she sees my role as much less important than hers. And that's not good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You and I share certain parallels. I was (am) the SAHM and my H the breadwinner. We also had certain role-reversals in terms of gender stereotypes--I am the one with the more forceful, direct personality; my H is the one who is non-confrontational, less direct. I NEVER let him forget that my job was just as hard as his, that I worked just as long as he did and that it continued after he got home. (And that I was also a former professional with a thriving career before I quit.) And look where that got me...he found an escape from that dynamic, and good.

Have you ever looked into forums for SAHD's? I can't believe they don't discuss this issue up one side and down the other and how they've learned to handle it. Or are all the SAHDs fulfilling THEIR gender stereotypes and suffering in silence in isolated islands in their own homes?


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> You and I share certain parallels. I was (am) the SAHM and my H the breadwinner. We also had certain role-reversals in terms of gender stereotypes--I am the one with the more forceful, direct personality; my H is the one who is non-confrontational, less direct. I NEVER let him forget that my job was just as hard as his, that I worked just as long as he did and that it continued after he got home. (And that I was also a former professional with a thriving career before I quit.) And look where that got me...he found an escape from that dynamic, and good.
> 
> Have you ever looked into forums for SAHD's? I can't believe they don't discuss this issue up one side and down the other and how they've learned to handle it. Or are all the SAHDs fulfilling THEIR gender stereotypes and suffering in silence in isolated islands in their own homes?


did a quick check and not too much SAHD forums that talk about infidelity. Will look more later.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

jerry123 said:


> did a quick check and not too much SAHD forums that talk about infidelity. Will look more later.


Look into maintaining balance and respect in general. These appear to be issues you have now (with infidelity not as clear cut), so you may find useful information about dealing with at least that.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> did a quick check and not too much SAHD forums that talk about infidelity. Will look more later.


I wasn't thinking infidelity, but rather, how do you (as a SAHD) handle a wife who starts to look down on your role and it changes the dynamic of your marriage.


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> I wasn't thinking infidelity, but rather, how do you (as a SAHD) handle a wife who starts to look down on your role and it changes the dynamic of your marriage.


I see, I will google that tomorrow. Got a IC appt in the morning. Trying to think of all the things I need to bring up. Can't wait to hear what MC thinks of the day we both came in and the tears were flowing from my wife. And how they shut off the minute we left.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> She had a yearly exam at OBGYN.
> 
> Yes, we have gotten into this rut and will take time but she has got to want to change and help out more. Me yelling at her will only make her throw up shields and think I am doing this to spite her. That is her thinking. So I've been asking her to get bath ready and read to the kids. Not sitting there and screaming at her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yelling and screaming just makes you look like a b!~tch. She is retreating upstairs to escape this, among other things. BTW if she was in an affair she would be taking her phone with her. Are you certain there is no burner phone?

Now you have put off looking for a job.

Your wife basically is coming home to a male nanny. She has a high powered job and she comes home to some one she has lost respect for and probably can't relate to anymore. If you don't get off the stick she is gioing to dump you for someone she respects.

You need to reread this thread and be aware of how your tone has changed. You're sounding needy,b!tchy and weak. And now it sounds like she has reverted to escaping her home life as well.

If it was you she was talking about beating, it looks true from my end.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Yelling and screaming just makes you look like a b!~tch. She is retreating upstairs to escape this, among other things. BTW if she was in an affair she would be taking her phone with her. Are you certain there is no burner phone?
> 
> Now you have put off looking for a job.
> 
> Your wife basically is coming home to a male nanny. She has a high powered job and she comes home to some one she has lost respect for and probably can't relate to anymore. If you don't get off the stick she is gioing to dump you for someone she respects.
> 
> You need to reread this thread and be aware of how your tone has changed. You're sounding needy,b!tchy and weak. And now it sounds like she has reverted to escaping her home life as well.
> 
> If it was you she was talking about beating, it looks true from my end.


Oh I don't yell and scream. I tell her how it's going to be. 

I've not put off looking for a job, kids are out for summer and my plan all along was to look in August/sept. she knows this. 

She does not come home to yelling/screaming. She retreats to upstairs because she thinks her day is done and she thinks all she has to do is go upstairs and not worry about the family. This is what I have to change. I know it's been like this for a while so breaking it will be a long road ahead.

Not sure about a burner phone. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Oh I don't yell and scream. I tell her how it's going to be.
> 
> I've not put off looking for a job, kids are out for summer and my plan all along was to look in August/sept. she knows this.
> 
> She does not come home to yelling/screaming. She retreats to upstairs because she thinks her day is done and she thinks all she has to do is go upstairs and not worry about the family. This is what I have to change. I know it's been like this for a while so breaking it will be a long road ahead.
> 
> Not sure about a burner phone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jerry, what about creating an environment where she wants to be with you because she hasn't seen you all day? How long has it been since you've had that? You'll have to forgive me, but what is the point of "winning" this cold war so that she shares some of the duties--if she isn't doing it from a perspective of loving compromise in the marriage? Or is this what you're doing, you're just holding firm to your (very understandable) position about how she should be contributing to family life for at least one hour in the evenings but doing it in a loving way.

Do you have a family dinner time during the week?


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

iheartlife said:


> Jerry, what about creating an environment where she wants to be with you because she hasn't seen you all day? How long has it been since you've had that? You'll have to forgive me, but what is the point of "winning" this cold war so that she shares some of the duties--if she isn't doing it from a perspective of loving compromise in the marriage? Or is this what you're doing, you're just holding firm to your (very understandable) position about how she should be contributing to family life for at least one hour in the evenings but doing it in a loving way.
> 
> Do you have a family dinner time during the week?


Jerry I think all of the posts like these share a common theme just under the surface...

What value does this marriage hold right now?

Right now, in all honesty, you are her cabana boy. She has two children ages 4 and 10 that she has little to no interaction with. She brings little to nothing to the table other then her paycheque. Her running off to hide away in the bedroom because her "job" is done for the day? Unbelievably selfish and self centred and to be honest should be a deal breaker in and of itself. Regardless of gender.

What, if anything, is worth salvaging in this situation?

I am not trying to be a Negative Nancy here...

But what is left of this marriage that is worth holding onto?


----------



## jerry123

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Jerry I think all of the posts like these share a common theme just under the surface...
> 
> What value does this marriage hold right now?
> 
> Right now, in all honesty, you are her cabana boy. She has two children ages 4 and 10 that she has little to no interaction with. She brings little to nothing to the table other then her paycheque. Her running off to hide away in the bedroom because her "job" is done for the day? Unbelievably selfish and self centred and to be honest should be a deal breaker in and of itself. Regardless of gender.
> 
> What, if anything, is worth salvaging in this situation?
> 
> I am not trying to be a Negative Nancy here...
> 
> But what is left of this marriage that is worth holding onto?



Totally agree...

IC went great, we talked about her being more a member of family after her "job". Got some good advice to spin it as a plus for her to join us. 

MC also wants me to bring up to my wife the possibility of her being depressed. But not till I impliment some positive Changes for her and us to have more family time. 

We both talked about her being married to her job. She is there more hours than she is home. 

Plus, if my wife is cheating whether it's at work or neighbor, it will be hard for her to keep both lives going if she is to once again spend more time as a family. That is what I will be looking for in her attitude. If she refuses to be a part of this family then there has to be a reason. 

And no, I won't be in this type of marriage if she refuses my thoughts of what a family is. 

I'm done being a doormat, and yes it's 50% my fault I allowed it to get to this point. 

Thanks all...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Jerry,

It is great seeing you be so positive.

That is the key. Use IC to improve yourself.

And you know what you want, your wife involved in the marriage and family.

Once you know what you want the rest is just time and hard work.

Keep going Jerry123.

HM64


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Totally agree...
> 
> IC went great, we talked about her being more a member of family after her "job". Got some good advice to spin it as a plus for her to join us.
> 
> MC also wants me to bring up to my wife the possibility of her being depressed. But not till I impliment some positive Changes for her and us to have more family time.
> 
> We both talked about her being married to her job. She is there more hours than she is home.
> 
> Plus, if my wife is cheating whether it's at work or neighbor, it will be hard for her to keep both lives going if she is to once again spend more time as a family. That is what I will be looking for in her attitude. If she refuses to be a part of this family then there has to be a reason.
> 
> And no, I won't be in this type of marriage if she refuses my thoughts of what a family is.
> 
> I'm done being a doormat, and yes it's 50% my fault I allowed it to get to this point.
> 
> Thanks all...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like you have a good counselor. I also like this plan as I think she is depressed and "married to her job" since she is a VP and at work 12 hours a day !!


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Sounds like you have a good counselor. I also like this plan as I think she is depressed and "married to her job" since she is a VP and at work 12 hours a day !!


Oh forgot to mention, she has a work dinner next week and wanted to take my car to it. I asked why since it will be sitting in a garage downtown all day. She did not give me a direct answer. She just said "oh probably not, I don't know yet". 

Hmmm, her group is taking intern (college students to dinner). Hmmm again, VAR picked up texting 2 weeks ago. 

Her saying: so f'n bad
Reading text: I wish I had that college f'n appt. there. 
Her saying: you're so bad

Looks like next week the VAR will be a very interesting listen to. 

Why would she be so interested in taking a BMW conv. to a dinner. To show off the car or impress someone.?!?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Oh forgot to mention, she has a work dinner next week and wanted to take my car to it. I asked why since it will be sitting in a garage downtown all day. She did not give me a direct answer. She just said "oh probably not, I don't know yet".
> 
> Hmmm, her group is taking intern (college students to dinner). Hmmm again, VAR picked up texting 2 weeks ago.
> 
> Her saying: so f'n bad
> Reading text: I wish I had that college f'n appt. there.
> Her saying: you're so bad
> 
> Looks like next week the VAR will be a very interesting listen to.
> 
> Why would she be so interested in taking a BMW conv. to a dinner. To show off the car or impress someone.?!?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would let her have your car and put the VAR in it. Just act as is -- and don't act suspicious. Who cares what her reasons are for taking your car -- but if you have the VAR in the car -- you may find out. 

Don't read into anything yet -- you need concrete proof. Letting her have your car with the VAR is one way to find out if she is up to something.

How sure are you that it an intern dinner ?? We do the same every year so if you are sure -- that is not suspicious.

Ny 2 cents !!


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> I would let her have your car and put the VAR in it. Just act as is -- and don't act suspicious. Who cares what her reasons are for taking your car -- but if you have the VAR in the car -- you may find out.
> 
> Don't read into anything yet -- you need concrete proof. Letting her have your car with the VAR is one way to find out if she is up to something.
> 
> How sure are you that it an intern dinner ?? We do the same every year so if you are sure -- that is not suspicious.
> 
> Ny 2 cents !!


She told me and it's on calendar. 

I know, i will just say go ahead...and smile.


----------



## vi_bride04

Maybe she is starting to feel very comfortable now. Like when she said she "I'm beating him"...feels she's ahead of the game and now might start to screw up. 

Let her take your car and put the VAR in it.

I drive a BMW...who the hell WOULDN'T want to take a BMW convertable out


----------



## Eli-Zor

> Why would she be so interested in taking a BMW conv. to a dinner. To show off the car or impress someone.?!?!


A thought, with the hood down you will not pick up anything on the var due to background noise.


----------



## jerry123

vi_bride04 said:


> Maybe she is starting to feel very comfortable now. Like when she said she "I'm beating him"...feels she's ahead of the game and now might start to screw up.
> 
> Let her take your car and put the VAR in it.
> 
> I drive a BMW...who the hell WOULDN'T want to take a BMW convertable out



Ha,ha. You're absolutely right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Eli-Zor said:


> A thought, with the hood down you will not pick up anything on the var due to background noise.


Actually, it picks up pretty good. I do hear the wind but Olympus model is very nice. Just does not do good with damn radio blaring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Perfect time to place a hidden camera in your car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Perfect time to place a hidden camera in your car.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know, brickhouse has a pen camera for $100 i think.
any suggestions?


----------



## happyman64

No suggestions but I agree with Keko.

Why waste a good opportunity.

Or Jerry, you could bang your wife's brains out the night before throw in a few wrestling moves that night so she can barely walk the next day.

Problem solved!!!LOL


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> No suggestions but I agree with Keko.
> 
> Why waste a good opportunity.
> 
> Or Jerry, you could bang your wife's brains out the night before throw in a few wrestling moves that night so she can barely walk the next day.
> 
> Problem solved!!!LOL


Will do...

Tonight I will be out till 11pm, told her to wait up for me. Going to do some 50 shades of grey to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Will do...
> 
> Tonight I will be out till 11pm, told her to wait up for me. Going to do some 50 shades of grey to her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have the VAR in the bedroom ?? Can you get home at 10PM -- just as a surprise because she will expect you at 11PM ??


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> You have the VAR in the bedroom ?? Can you get home at 10PM -- just as a surprise because she will expect you at 11PM ??


It's a poker game, so I could be home at 9 or latest 11. But I will set up VAR anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> I know, brickhouse has a pen camera for $100 i think.
> any suggestions?


How about those dashboard cams? You might place it just behind the rear seats/headrests so to not draw too much attention?

I'll do a little searching in a sec.


----------



## keko

Jerry have a look at this, Black Box Micro Camera | Turn Any Object into a Hidden Camera

The pen style only has 75mins on one charge while this has 24 hours. But the problem is do you have a decent spot in your car to get the occupants faces and not be seen.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you spoken to your IC about the possibility your wife may be cheating?


----------



## Subi

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Jerry I think all of the posts like these share a common theme just under the surface...
> 
> What value does this marriage hold right now?
> 
> Right now, in all honesty, you are her cabana boy. She has two children ages 4 and 10 that she has little to no interaction with. She brings little to nothing to the table other then her paycheque. Her running off to hide away in the bedroom because her "job" is done for the day? Unbelievably selfish and self centred and to be honest should be a deal breaker in and of itself. Regardless of gender.
> 
> What, if anything, is worth salvaging in this situation?
> 
> I am not trying to be a Negative Nancy here...
> 
> But what is left of this marriage that is worth holding onto?


Her paycheck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Pull the fuse on the radio, or figure out away to disable it. Especially in the Beamer, she won't be the wiser.


----------



## jerry123

Subi said:


> Her paycheck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Could care less about the paycheck...money does not buy a happy marriage. Plus, I work just as hard as she does, even longer hours and I don't get a check after the week is over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Have you spoken to your IC about the possibility your wife may be cheating?


First time I went to IC I brought it up. Have the red flags and MC though it could be starting out as a EA. 

Funny how this neighbor has not been by since I accused wife back in April. Also, drove by his house last night and he was out side with his kid. He seen me driving by and turned the other way in his Driveway and did not say a word or a wave. Yelled out "d1ck head", don't know if he heard me, sure he did...i am 90% sure something was up with a EA/PA in some sort but no proof. But his/her actions tell volumes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

He was with his child and you called him a d!ckhead?!


----------



## Chaparral

I think you should innocently ask your wife why she thinks he is acting/acted so strange to you? Tell her she is the only one who knows you suspected him and her and see how she reacts.

(If I remember correctly you did mention him)

Did you mention him as a suspect to any other friend?


----------



## Subi

best to stay out of trouble jerry. You never know what he is capable of. Even though you feel compelled to. If you read juicers thread you ll know how the victim can quickly turn into the villain. So keep yo coool and dignity more especially now that you got no proof. Good luck


----------



## the guy

Thank god you only called the niegbor a d*ckhead, can you imagine the drama his kid would have had if you beat his daddy in front of them.
If it was me, I would have light a paper bag full of dog crap and set the firey bag on his door step and knocked on his door and ran.

Nothing says vengence like watching a guy stomp on firey bag of dog crap.


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> He was with his child and you called him a d!ckhead?!


Oh, I made sure to see his kid at far end of driveway. Neighbor was 5 feet from road,kid could not possibly have heard me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NewM

Sorry I red some parts of this thread few days ago(and probably skipped some posts) so I don't remember everything,but what happened to your spyware program on her phone did you see all the messages and are you still seeing every message of hers?

I remember she complained about battery drain and you not being able to use it for some reason but after that I forgot what happened.


----------



## jerry123

NewM said:


> Sorry I red some parts of this thread few days ago(and probably skipped some posts) so I don't remember everything,but what happened to your spyware program on her phone did you see all the messages and are you still seeing every message of hers?
> 
> I remember she complained about battery drain and you not being able to use it for some reason but after that I forgot what happened.


Went on phone but can't find program in applications. I will ask her in a few days if her battery still drains. 

Everytime I tried to access control panel a notification came up on her phone. I'm sure it's the firewall they have for her work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie

Hi Jerry, sounds like you had a good meeting/session with the IC, when are you going to have a chat with your wife about the changes to make her more family oriented? And it is really good you have advice on the approach, a non-confrontational one I assume!


----------



## Chaparral

Jerry, there is a short article in Mens Health,, "Why She'll Cheat on You"

Why She Cheats | Men's Health

In a graph, one of the headings is "Befriend the enemy" 20% (graph is not dislplayed at online edition May 2012)

Does your wife know you never cared for the way your neighbor acted around her?

Could she have any reason to be jealous?

Does she have any self esteem issues?

When she tells you she talks all day tellher you don't care to talk about business unlees she wants to talk about somehting in particular. In everything I read talking to your wife boils down to just listening, getting her to talk and God forbid you offer any solutions, they have to come up with their own answers.


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> Hi Jerry, sounds like you had a good meeting/session with the IC, when are you going to have a chat with your wife about the changes to make her more family oriented? And it is really good you have advice on the approach, a non-confrontational one I assume!


Already did, it's more the fact that she thinks my job is all housework since I am a SAHD. I got her to do some housework this weekend. Not by yelling, but by her knowing I needed help with things. I can ask her all day to help but by her just doing it without asking was a plus for me. 

MC is pushing more family time. Especially after she gets home from work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Jerry, there is a short article in Mens Health,, "Why She'll Cheat on You"
> 
> Why She Cheats | Men's Health
> 
> In a graph, one of the headings is "Befriend the enemy" 20% (graph is not dislplayed at online edition May 2012)
> 
> Does your wife know you never cared for the way your neighbor acted around her?
> 
> Could she have any reason to be jealous?
> 
> Does she have any self esteem issues?
> 
> When she tells you she talks all day tellher you don't care to talk about business unlees she wants to talk about somehting in particular. In everything I read talking to your wife boils down to just listening, getting her to talk and God forbid you offer any solutions, they have to come up with their own answers.


She knows now, explained to her how this guy operates. The sex talk and telling me my wife looks good for not working out was something I should have stopped a long time ago. Never will happen again. 
This neighbor has not stopped by for 2 months. Coincidence that he has not stopped by since I accused her. 

Stupid is as stupid does, if he were smart he would have acted normal and still came over as usuall. Now it just solidifies I know he/she did may have done something in past. If it went underground I am prepared to wait till she thinks I am not suspicious, which I have been working real hard at. She knows absolute nothing about VAR/GPS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> She knows now, explained to her how this guy operates. The sex talk and telling me my wife looks good for not working out was something I should have stopped a long time ago. Never will happen again.
> This neighbor has not stopped by for 2 months. Coincidence that he has not stopped by since I accused her.
> 
> Stupid is as stupid does, if he were smart he would have acted normal and still came over as usuall. Now it just solidifies I know he/she did may have done something in past. If it went underground I am prepared to wait till she thinks I am not suspicious, which I have been working real hard at. She knows absolute nothing about VAR/GPS.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have also acted differently towards him since this started. You were supposed to take him to pick up his vehicle at the garage( I believe). Then you bailed on him. A lot of people would be a bit ticked off at that. Then you yelled at him the other day. ROTFLMAO

NOt saying anything but once again everything could be interpeted in more than one way. Frustrating. No?


----------



## NewM

You should try again with that text spying program,but this time first try it out on your own phone to see how everything works.

I checked their website and its supposed to send all her messages to your email.

Try it out on yourself and then install it again on her phone when you know exactly how it works.


----------



## jh52

NewM said:


> You should try again with that text spying program,but this time first try it out on your own phone to see how everything works.
> 
> I checked their website and its supposed to send all her messages to your email.
> 
> Try it out on yourself and then install it again on her phone when you know exactly how it works.


The problem may be that her phone is for work of a large corporation which is behind a firewall and may be causing the issue.


----------



## NewM

jh52 said:


> The problem may be that her phone is for work of a large corporation which is behind a firewall and may be causing the issue.


Maybe but that is why I am suggesting that he tries installing spy on his own phone and sees if same problem comes out and then he can see how to work that problem out without having to worry if his wife will get notifications.

Maybe he just has to allow notification to connect to spy programs website one time and then no more notifications will come up.He can see if that is the case when he installs it on his phone.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> The problem may be that her phone is for work of a large corporation which is behind a firewall and may be causing the issue.


Exactly...she has a BB work phone with a tough firewall. I have a personal iPhone. Two different things. 

I just have this feeling the neighbor knows I know something. He used to come around every weekend. Now it's been 6-7 weekends and not even a stop by. I'm no dummy, there is more to this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

They may have had an EA, maybe even a ONS. But its probably done and over or you would have found something. 

My guess is she is grooming one of her recruited students.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

bandit.45 said:


> My guess is she is grooming one of her recruited students.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Either that or a coworker. In those cases she has a burner phone which she leaves at her work or another location.

Jerry can you go into her workplace?


----------



## Chaparral

There simply isn't any evidence pointing to an affair. That doesn't mean there isn't one. And the family dynamic has been one that could easily result in one. 

Jerry , although his wife wants things (she thinks) to stay the same, has lost respect for her husband. Actually, both of them are vulnerable to an affair.

It is actually very weird reading this thread because so often, Jerry's post sound like they are being written by a woman.

I don't personally know any SAHDs, I can't imagine how the social dynamics work in the neighborhood events but I know for sure many men are thinking Jerry's wife is totally ripe for picking. I can only imagine what her coworkers, clients and colleagues think when they find her husband is "sitting" home minding the kids. There is no way they can hide the disrespect for him from her.

That reveals itself in her dissing him in public and neighbor boy dissing him in his remarks to his wife in front of him.

The first thing Jerry needs to work on is his cold dead stare and the second thing is he needs to work on an outside job 24/7 until one is found.

The sh!t has already hit the fan, now its time to clean up and get things back to the way they were supposed to be.

An example, when Jerry said he may be going into the health care field, on second thought it should be a good idea(except for how long it will take, by then it may be too late) but my first thought was, oh my God, now he wants to be a nurse! I wonder if his wife thought that as well?


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

They cant stop. It's like a drug. If you can, check her text messages. If not at least check you phone bill online. You'll be able to see the long phone calls and texts to the same number. look that most frequent number up on Spokeo and you may at least find out who it may be. Then try to remember the times she was unaccounted for and match those times to the texts and phone calls. Also, after the long conversations with her BF the guilt makes her call you. Also, consider it may be a close friend of yours. Awful, but probable.


----------



## lordmayhem

chapparal said:


> I don't personally know any SAHDs, I can't imagine how the social dynamics work in the neighborhood events but I know for sure many men are thinking Jerry's wife is totally ripe for picking. I can only imagine what her coworkers, clients and colleagues think when they find her husband is "sitting" home minding the kids. There is no way they can hide the disrespect for him from her.
> 
> That reveals itself in her dissing him in public and neighbor boy dissing him in his remarks to his wife in front of him.


This type of marriage is more common in the military. There are only three types of women in the military, the single parent, the female married to another active duty member, and the one married to a civilian. If the woman stays in the military, the roles are reversed, and the husband is the one taking care of the kids, giving up his job (if he works) whenever the wife gets orders to be stationed at another military base and the whole family has to move.

I knew a few SAHDs, one where the wife was one of my coworkers when I was in the Air Force, she being the active duty member, and him being the dependent. The stuff she would say about him openly at work, referring to him as the "bum", etc, etc. But he was going to school so that he could become an officer. The amount of disrespect she showed him while she was at work was enormous. 

At another base, same thing, the wife was a coworker and the SAHD was the civilian staying home to take care of the kids. Same treatment. And of course, my female coworkers would agree with her treatment of her husband. 

And the last one was in recent years. The husband retired from active duty, had paid off all the bills, and was living off his retirement pay while his wife continued to work. He took care of the house and everything, yet she b!tched to everyone who would listen, including my wife, about him, that he was lazy, etc, etc. He was really a good guy and the life of the party everytime that I saw him. Her own family would always talk about what a good guy he was. But she no longer respected him, even though he worshipped the very ground she walked on. Still, she left him and he was crushed. He never recovered, and he took his life a couple of years ago. Tragic story.

These three situations have led me to believe that women DO NOT ever respect a SAHD, he may as well be a eunuch in their eyes. Sure, there may be women out there that do, I haven't seen it with my own eyes yet.


----------



## bandit.45

I don't believe such women exist. The double standard is appalling.

Makes one want to go out and start a full on, locked and loaded gender war.....

Guess who would win.....:FIREdevil:


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> I don't believe such women exist. The double standard is appalling.
> 
> Makes one want to go out and start a full on, locked and loaded gender war.....
> 
> Guess who would win.....:FIREdevil:


I don't think you can change the biological nature of human beings with an artifical social construction and political correctness. As a matter of fact I conciously tried to turn my daughter into a bit of a Tom boy. I bought her cars and trucks, tools, balls, karate lessons etc. etc. All I got was a 110% little girl and a million Barbies and other assorted dolls. So I make sure she has pepper spray.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I don't think you can change the biological nature of human beings with an artifical social construction and political correctness. As a matter of fact I conciously tried to turn my daughter into a bit of a Tom boy. I bought her cars and trucks, tools, balls, karate lessons etc. etc. All I got was a 110% little girl and a million Barbies and other assorted dolls. So I make sure she has pepper spray.


Great post here from this weekend. Can't wait to respond...

A no, just because I say heSlthcare field I don't mean a nurse. LOL

And I agree, I told the MC the same thing. You can't change millions of years of evolution in 20 years. My wife thinks society should accept SAHD's. But at the same time she does not realize the lack of respect she had for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

lifeisnotsogood said:


> They cant stop. It's like a drug. If you can, check her text messages. If not at least check you phone bill online. You'll be able to see the long phone calls and texts to the same number. look that most frequent number up on Spokeo and you may at least find out who it may be. Then try to remember the times she was unaccounted for and match those times to the texts and phone calls. Also, after the long conversations with her BF the guilt makes her call you. Also, consider it may be a close friend of yours. Awful, but probable.


That's what I've always thought about but maybe a ONS is the "drug" for her. She shows little, if no emotional side of her. She always has to in control of herself. 

Just this past Friday I come home after poker and she is waiting up for me. I am using restraints on her and still she is fighting that I have control. Would not let me dominate her, had to keep saying that she is in control while restrained. Could have been role playing on her part but I got the sense she did not like giving up the power. 

All in all, I still am looking to get proof of something, and I'm doing a good job at letting her know my suspicions are in check. 

Getting a lot from IC by staying focused on myself. My wife asked me yesterday how long I will be going for IC. I said I don't know, I guess it depends on how long I need to. She is trying to support IC but it kills her that I don't come home after and tell her everything we talked about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

> Getting a lot from IC by staying focused on myself. My wife asked me yesterday how long I will be going for IC. I said I don't know, I guess it depends on how long I need to. She is trying to support IC but it kills her that I don't come home after and tell her everything we talked about.


I would have answered her " I will keep going until you tell me the truth to my questions and admit your power struggle issues" And then you should left her tied up until it was time for breakfast.

I guess you can tell what I did for our gov't huh!

I bet she eventually would have started talking Jerry.

On a side note, keep going to IC until you know she cannot convince you that you are crazy and have an over active imagination.

HM64


----------



## jh52

"Getting a lot from IC by staying focused on myself. My wife asked me yesterday how long I will be going for IC. I said I don't know, I guess it depends on how long I need to. She is trying to support IC but it kills her that I don't come home after and tell her everything we talked about."
Posted via Mobile Device 

I love she is NOT in control of your emotions at IC. She must be a real control freak. She is afraid to act like a human and show emotions as it is shown as to her crying during the entire MC. She needs to get some help herself in IC -- but she won't because to her -- everything is just fine and SHE has to be in CONTROL.


----------



## allthegoodnamesaregone

bandit.45 said:


> I don't believe such women exist. The double standard is appalling.
> 
> Makes one want to go out and start a full on, locked and loaded gender war.....
> 
> Guess who would win.....:FIREdevil:



It makes one wonder what people think. I was a sahd, but ran a full time business at the same time out of my home office. I worked around ferrying the kids to school, the wife to work appointments, cooking dinner etc... I don't think it would have made any difference in the end whether I had an office somewhere else, as we both would have had to work harder to pay for daycare....Seems no matter what you do...you're screwed.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> "Getting a lot from IC by staying focused on myself. My wife asked me yesterday how long I will be going for IC. I said I don't know, I guess it depends on how long I need to. She is trying to support IC but it kills her that I don't come home after and tell her everything we talked about."
> Posted via Mobile Device
> 
> I love she is NOT in control of your emotions at IC. She must be a real control freak. She is afraid to act like a human and show emotions as it is shown as to her crying during the entire MC. She needs to get some help herself in IC -- but she won't because to her -- everything is just fine and SHE has to be in CONTROL.


Exactly, this is what I deal with everyday. 

As to the post about me being vulnerable to an affair myself, I see their point since I've had woman notice me more in the past 4 months. It feels good but I have to remember not to cave and get myself in that position. 
Yesterday a beautiful blond came up to me at softball game while I was coaching. I seen my wife watch her talk to me, could tell she was wondering why this woman just came up to me. Turned out that she was a parent offering to go get ice cream for kids and asked me if it was ok. But just to see my wife watching and not knowing made me feel good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> It makes one wonder what people think. I was a sahd, but ran a full time business at the same time out of my home office. I worked around ferrying the kids to school, the wife to work appointments, cooking dinner etc... I don't think it would have made any difference in the end whether I had an office somewhere else, as we both would have had to work harder to pay for daycare....Seems no matter what you do...you're screwed.


Did your wife look at you different for being a SAHD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

DXG said:


> Jerry, you might have thought of this . Remember when you confronted her about having an A then shortly after she gets depressed and sleeps all day sat and then gives you hot sex that night. Don't you think she stopped the A because you were suspicious and she was dealing with the loss of her lover., and now is laying low till she feels it is safe to continue.


Yes, first thing that crossed my mind. But, if something was going in with neighbor it was not a weekly thing. All the red flags I found made me think it may have been 1-2 times since October 2011. But the kicker is, since accusation this guy has NOT been around where in the past (pre-accusation) he would stop by 1-2 times a week. 
Oh well, just glad he does not stop by. But I know my accusation may have stopped any possible A or it went underground for a while. I'll find one day, I truly believe that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

jerry123 said:


> Did your wife look at you different for being a SAHD.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was a SAHD for a while, about 3 years during a career change. I was working part time weekends and some early am. She had finished her Ph.D., and per our agreement it was my turn to pursue a change. I was not earning anything meaningful

So 90% I was SAHD.

The lowest event in our marriage occurred during this time when she overtly used her income and my lack of income as blackmail.

I think it is definitely something written into human DNA that a woman looks down on a sahd.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Exactly, this is what I deal with everyday.
> 
> As to the post about me being vulnerable to an affair myself, I see their point since I've had woman notice me more in the past 4 months. It feels good but I have to remember not to cave and get myself in that position.
> Yesterday a beautiful blond came up to me at softball game while I was coaching. I seen my wife watch her talk to me, could tell she was wondering why this woman just came up to me. Turned out that she was a parent offering to go get ice cream for kids and asked me if it was ok. But just to see my wife watching and not knowing made me feel good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Too bad you didn't reach back in your pocket and give her the money for the ice cream -- and say thanks == you might have got a thank you and maybe a hug. Either way -- your wife would have definitely noticed the exchange of money which would have made it seem like you knew the blond better.


----------



## bandit.45

You'll find out the truth Jerry. Just be patient. 

And the next time you have her restrained and she tries the power struggle thing, hold her down by the throat or if your behind her push her face down into the pillow and hold it there...and don't be nice about it. Its the old wrestling creed: "If you control the opponents head, you control the body.". 

It would do your wife good to go to work the next day with a sore neck. Every time she rubs it she'll remember you got the best of her. 

I know I'm going to get slammed for it but I see your wife like a young filly or colt being broken. When you are breaking a horse YOU CANNOT LET THEM WIN. If they buck you off you get right back on. If they kick you you get up and get right back on. You never, ever let them think they have one, even if you come out of it torn and bleeding. That's the attitude you must have with a wife of this kind. She's a control freak and the only way she will respect you is if you fight her tooth and nail in every aspect of your marriage. 

Question is: is this how you want to live your life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

bandit.45 said:


> You'll find out the truth Jerry. Just be patient.
> 
> And the next time you have her restrained and she tries the power struggle thing, hold her down by the throat or if your behind her push her face down into the pillow and hold it there...and don't be nice about it. Its the old wrestling creed: "If you control the opponents head, you control the body.".
> 
> It would do your wife good to go to work the next day with a sore neck. Every time she rubs it she'll remember you got the best of her.
> 
> I know I'm going to get slammed for it but I see your wife like a young filly or colt being broken. When you are breaking a horse YOU CANNOT LET THEM WIN. If they buck you off you get right back on. If they kick you you get up and get right back on. You never, ever let them think they have one, even if you come out of it torn and bleeding. That's the attitude you must have with a wife of this kind. She's a control freak and the only way she will respect you is if you fight her tooth and nail in every aspect of your marriage.
> 
> Question is: is this how you want to live your life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How do you compare a human being to a horse ? I would hope to hell you never treated your ex like this or the new friend in your life. 2 wrongs do not make a right.


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## Thor

bandit.45 said:


> You'll find out the truth Jerry. Just be patient.
> 
> And the next time you have her restrained and she tries the power struggle thing, hold her down by the throat or if your behind her push her face down into the pillow and hold it there...and don't be nice about it. Its the old wrestling creed: "If you control the opponents head, you control the body.".
> 
> It would do your wife good to go to work the next day with a sore neck. Every time she rubs it she'll remember you got the best of her.
> 
> I know I'm going to get slammed for it but I see your wife like a young filly or colt being broken. When you are breaking a horse YOU CANNOT LET THEM WIN. If they buck you off you get right back on.


I don't recall if Jerry's wife may have a history of sexual abuse or assault. If so, this kind of physical restraint is going to be dangerous and harmful.

Being physically alpha dominant can be fun and it can be sexually exciting to a woman. One must be careful though if there is a possibility of abuse/assault.


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## jerry123

Thor said:


> I don't recall if Jerry's wife may have a history of sexual abuse or assault. If so, this kind of physical restraint is going to be dangerous and harmful.
> 
> Being physically alpha dominant can be fun and it can be sexually exciting to a woman. One must be careful though if there is a possibility of abuse/assault.


Hmmm, come to think of it, she has told me in the past (one time) that a new boyfriend back in high school forced himself on her. I think they only dated a month but she did not say he raped her but that could be a defensive mech. on her part so she did not have to call it rape.


----------



## Thor

If there was a rape it could explain a lot of her psychology. Which is not relevant from the standpoint that her behavior is what matters, not what she is thinking. But understanding her psychology can answer some questions and bring you some peace.


----------



## bandit.45

jh52 said:


> How do you compare a human being to a horse ? I would hope to hell you never treated your ex like this or the new friend in your life. 2 wrongs do not make a right.


Don't be foolish...

No I never did treat my wife like this by the way. I treated her like a queen. But Jerry's wife has transformed herself into a full bore b*tch. I'm trying to show Jerry the mindset his wife has. She sees her marriage as a fight. And I ask him again... is this how he wants to spend the rest of his life?


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> You'll find out the truth Jerry. Just be patient.
> 
> And the next time you have her restrained and she tries the power struggle thing, hold her down by the throat or if your behind her push her face down into the pillow and hold it there...and don't be nice about it. Its the old wrestling creed: "If you control the opponents head, you control the body.".
> 
> It would do your wife good to go to work the next day with a sore neck. Every time she rubs it she'll remember you got the best of her.
> 
> I know I'm going to get slammed for it but I see your wife like a young filly or colt being broken. When you are breaking a horse YOU CANNOT LET THEM WIN. If they buck you off you get right back on. If they kick you you get up and get right back on. You never, ever let them think they have one, even if you come out of it torn and bleeding. That's the attitude you must have with a wife of this kind. She's a control freak and the only way she will respect you is if you fight her tooth and nail in every aspect of your marriage.
> 
> Question is: is this how you want to live your life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know what you mean, but i could do this for years and it may only keep going back and forth with both of us vying for control. I am not saying i want to control her life. I want control of my life and to make choices i want. 

She has been this way for years and even MC said it will take time. She is at the top of a roller coaster right now, and why would she give that lifestyle up when she is happy the way it is now. 

And no, i am not going to live like this forever. I am giving this marriage a chance to work. By changing myself i can always move on down the road with a understanding of who i am and who i always want to be. And if i find a woman who respects that then all the better.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone

jerry123 said:


> Did your wife look at you different for being a SAHD.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She used to brag me up, ( I overheard her) I know a lot of the girls where she worked were a bit envious, maybe even resentful of the fact she had it so easy at home. they were all amazed when they found out she cheated...


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## jerry123

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> She used to brag me up, ( I overheard her) I know a lot of the girls where she worked were a bit envious, maybe even resentful of the fact she had it so easy at home. they were all amazed when they found out she cheated...


Wow, I'll have to read your story. 

Yes, all the woman that find out I am a SAHD are envious. Men are not...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## allthegoodnamesaregone

jerry123 said:


> Wow, I'll have to read your story.
> 
> Yes, all the woman that find out I am a SAHD are envious. Men are not...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think I've posted my whole story here on Tam, I wouldn't want to make this forum anymore depressing than it already is ;~) I don't want to hijack the thread, but here's the short form.

The long and short of it is we were together for 24 years, married for 22 with two kids, 19 and 13. We'd had all the usual ups and downs, but seldom fought about anything, anything we decided on doing was very much mutual. 

Both of us always worked, but early on the daycare costs ate up about half of one salary. The nature of my business was it could allow me to work from a home office and save use a huge amount of money, so we decided it made good sense for me to be the main care giver as far as the kids were concerned. It also allowed us to pay off our mortgage in 20 years.

Well last spring she began to exhibit all the signs of an affair, I didn't notice much of it as that at first as she was having problems with peri menopause and fibroids. Her behavior finally got so out of character by July I snooped her facebook and found out she was talking about leaving me with one of her oldest girlfriends from Highschool. I called on on it and she simply said she " wanted out" no reason given and left three days later. I found out late last fall she'd been having an EA to PA since the late spring, which matched when her change in personality started.

She's gone full MLC, has very limited contact with the kids ( they are both with me) has been seeing the OM on weekends ( he lives over 100 miles away). The kids tell me she will likely be moving in with him when her lease is up in August.


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## happyman64

jh52 said:


> Too bad you didn't reach back in your pocket and give her the money for the ice cream -- and say thanks == you might have got a thank you and maybe a hug. Either way -- your wife would have definitely noticed the exchange of money which would have made it seem like you knew the blond better.


Jerry,

Next time a pretty lady comes up to you and is speaking with you please tell your wife this if she inquires what you two were talking about:

" Well Honey, that young lady has a truck load of wood she is dropping off at our house. She was giving me options on how I can work off the "wood" with her....."

And just walk away from her Jerry.

I think your pretty smart bossy wife will get the meaning of your comment.

Please try to take a picture of her jaw dropping to the ground with your cell phone while she is contemplating your message.

HM64


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## t_hopper_2012

Jerry123,

You had mentioned earlier that you were considering a career change - possibly healthcare. Is this something you are still considering? I know that another poster commented (with dismay) that you might be thinking of a career in nursing.

I'm asking because there are great opportunities in being either a Physical Therapy Assistant or an Certified Occupational Therapy Assistant. Both careers require something like two years of full time education, a state-issued license and ongoing continuing education to stay licensed. In addition to helping people live better lives, both fields have a couple advantages: the jobs cannot be off-shored and, if you work in a rehab setting, the demographics in this country work in your favor. All of those baby boomers are aging and the need for therapy staff will go up accordingly.

If this is something you'd consider, you really need to get going on it *now*. The programs will start up in the fall and they tend to follow a set track - rather than being something that allows you to pick up a class here or there. If you want to do this, you should be talking to program directors (verifying the job prospects and wage expectations for graduates); filling out applications and, most importantly, arranging for child care since you'll be at school.

Imagine, as well, how this course of action would change the dynamic at home. You would go from "wife has job outside home, Jerry's job is to take care of everything else" to "Jerry and wife both have jobs outside the home (being a full time student is just as time-consuming as a job) and now they will divide the tasks of raising the kids and maintaining the home between them".

Rather than looking for a job when the summer ends, you can grab this bull by the horns right away!

Good luck.


----------



## the guy

Restraints are fun but along with this kind of role play there has to an emotional element...like not letting "complete". A teasing that lets her know you can control the sitch and leaving her in a frusturated state is just as powerful as the act it self.

Spilling water on her lap in a resturant is also a good tactic, she will have to gling to you as you walk out, as she trys to hide her ambarassment of looking like she peed her pants. 

Arousing my fWW and walking away makes for a fun evening the folowing day, if chastity belts weren't so dam expenceive I would love to put that on my fWW!

Back to point, the mind game can be just as effective as the act its self.

Stay alph brother and work the angle, she knows what she did and if she willing to get tied up she has it in her to take alot more. Just remember there is a responsiblity you have in showing your wife the same amount of rough love as caring love.


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## jaffab

Jerry,

Excuse me for butting in, as you will see, I have only just found this board and have just read the 'war and peace' of this discussion. Just a few observations - I hope they help.

One of the biggest causes of pain to the mind and soul - is doubt. Doesn't matter if its deciding on a job, deciding on a home to live in, whether to make a purchase, or anything in relationships. It is far (FAR) better to make a decision or have an answer than have our minds flip-flop. 

When it comes to relationships and women, we cant read their minds - and those blasted women JUST WONT TELL US - so when there is doubt, our minds wander, and invent. And when it comes to matters of women and the heart, those ideas can hurt a lot.

It seems to me that you have a lot of red flags from the past, but nothing recent. And you are now stuck in this loop of trying to find the evidence - which may never appear. If your wife has stopped the EA because you accused her, you are looking for stuff that is no longer there. 

Now I feel your pain - and I am in a slightly similar position. My wife has a boss who I find.... inappropriate. He will now and again send her text messages/skypes which are equivilant to your neighbours comments (mixed in with work stuff) - but I am sure that their is nothing going on between them - its just inappropriate. My position is that I cant have it out when him - it could risk her job - and if something happened to her job because of me - well it would be a relationship killer.

Seems to me that IF (a big IF) anything was going on, you have warned them both off - and there is no evidence that you have found to support an EA in play at the moment - so all you are doing now is to hurt yourself. 

I am convinced that when anybody is having an affair, the signs are there and grow large as time progresses, so if something starts up again, you will know what to look for and will see them, and thats when to kick in with the surveillance. As I say, i have been there (Google latitude is a great thing for tracking peoples phone movements, and logging in to skype using their credentials will allow you to see all their historical conversations).

It seems you are doing the same as me (and why I was browsing this forum in the first place), and 'manning up' - using either the "Alpha Game", MMSL, or NMMNG options - and your wife seems to be responding in a very positive way (love the shades of Grey idea - must get my wife that book as well... now do I just buy her the book and leave it by her bedside one night, or suggest it to her, or.....).

Anyway, just trying to put another slant on it. If it was me, I would draw a line in the sand, sit her down (again) and say something like....

"Look, you know that I think you had an affair, and I think it was with {xxxxxx} and at the moment I cant prove it. Regardless, the things he said around you were inappropriate which is why (strong terms) he is no longer welcome in either of our lives in any way, and if he comes around again for any reason or I find one shred that you have been in communication, I will cause him pain and your ass will be on the sidewalk. You cant prove you were not having an affair, and I cant prove you were, but you gave signals which caused me to doubt you, and that has caused us both pain. From now on, I will be watching, but right now we will move on and as part of this you WILL ....." (and your demands - MC, BJ, whatever).

As I say, just thought it would be worth adding this to the equation, your thought process, and hopefully allow you to move on.

Hope it helps

Jaffa


----------



## jerry123

jaffab said:


> Jerry,
> 
> Excuse me for butting in, as you will see, I have only just found this board and have just read the 'war and peace' of this discussion. Just a few observations - I hope they help.
> 
> One of the biggest causes of pain to the mind and soul - is doubt. Doesn't matter if its deciding on a job, deciding on a home to live in, whether to make a purchase, or anything in relationships. It is far (FAR) better to make a decision or have an answer than have our minds flip-flop.
> 
> When it comes to relationships and women, we cant read their minds - and those blasted women JUST WONT TELL US - so when there is doubt, our minds wander, and invent. And when it comes to matters of women and the heart, those ideas can hurt a lot.
> 
> It seems to me that you have a lot of red flags from the past, but nothing recent. And you are now stuck in this loop of trying to find the evidence - which may never appear. If your wife has stopped the EA because you accused her, you are looking for stuff that is no longer there.
> 
> Now I feel your pain - and I am in a slightly similar position. My wife has a boss who I find.... inappropriate. He will now and again send her text messages/skypes which are equivilant to your neighbours comments (mixed in with work stuff) - but I am sure that their is nothing going on between them - its just inappropriate. My position is that I cant have it out when him - it could risk her job - and if something happened to her job because of me - well it would be a relationship killer.
> 
> Seems to me that IF (a big IF) anything was going on, you have warned them both off - and there is no evidence that you have found to support an EA in play at the moment - so all you are doing now is to hurt yourself.
> 
> I am convinced that when anybody is having an affair, the signs are there and grow large as time progresses, so if something starts up again, you will know what to look for and will see them, and thats when to kick in with the surveillance. As I say, i have been there (Google latitude is a great thing for tracking peoples phone movements, and logging in to skype using their credentials will allow you to see all their historical conversations).
> 
> It seems you are doing the same as me (and why I was browsing this forum in the first place), and 'manning up' - using either the "Alpha Game", MMSL, or NMMNG options - and your wife seems to be responding in a very positive way (love the shades of Grey idea - must get my wife that book as well... now do I just buy her the book and leave it by her bedside one night, or suggest it to her, or.....).
> 
> Anyway, just trying to put another slant on it. If it was me, I would draw a line in the sand, sit her down (again) and say something like....
> 
> "Look, you know that I think you had an affair, and I think it was with {xxxxxx} and at the moment I cant prove it. Regardless, the things he said around you were inappropriate which is why (strong terms) he is no longer welcome in either of our lives in any way, and if he comes around again for any reason or I find one shred that you have been in communication, I will cause him pain and your ass will be on the sidewalk. You cant prove you were not having an affair, and I cant prove you were, but you gave signals which caused me to doubt you, and that has caused us both pain. From now on, I will be watching, but right now we will move on and as part of this you WILL ....." (and your demands - MC, BJ, whatever).
> 
> As I say, just thought it would be worth adding this to the equation, your thought process, and hopefully allow you to move on.
> 
> Hope it helps
> 
> Jaffa


Yes, i was just going over this in my head today.

The red flags do come up in my mind and this neighbor not coming around all of a sudden after i accuse her really makes me think even more.

Her/I have not brought my accusations up once since i accused her. Not even during our conversation that night did she say I can see your concern with red flags...instead she says, "I have never touched him" and "If i were cheating i would tell you" :scratchhead:

Yeah, that's got to be a classic answer.


So, anyway i am trying to just go about the days with eyes/ears open and live my life as well as i can. 

The books have helped me but being a SAHD has taken years away from my "Alpha" self. I could see how it would, kids to bring up, diner, chores, cleaning up after everyone. While my high Alpha wife goes to her VP job 12 hours a day. 
It will take a long time to get things back to how i want them to be....the question is, is it worth the struggle.

I am trying to figure out if i love my wife enough to fight for this marriage. With her showing no emotion, lack of respect, and outright refusal to spend more time with kids just makes me think she is not worth it.
Yeah, sex has been better and more often and that is a result of me changing. 

Thanks for your input...


----------



## bandit.45

Yep, sometimes you have to step back and ask yourself if it is worth it. That is the question I have when I mentally put myself in your place. That is the big blue elephant in the room for you right now. 

Good luck Jerry.


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## jaffab

jerry123 said:


> Her/I have not brought my accusations up once since i accused her. Not even during our conversation that night did she say I can see your concern with red flags...instead she says, "I have never touched him" and "If i were cheating i would tell you" :scratchhead:
> 
> Yeah, that's got to be a classic answer.


Actually, the denial is good. 

When you accuse anybody of anything that they have actually done, the GUILTY (acceptance of being caught) response will be based around deflection such as "Now why would you say that?" or "what have I done to make you ask this?" or "would I ever do something like that?" - or even worse is a push back such as "you are out of your mind to think that" or "If you even have to ask me that...." or the final "Dont be stupid!"

A NOT-GUILTY response to an accusation is "NO" or "Never" or "I have never done that" or as in your case "I have never touched him"


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## Thor

I read an article on detecting lies which said the word "never" can be a red flag for deception. It depends how it is used. If you ask her if she's ever been to Joe's Bar & Grill, a categorical denial such as "I have never been to Joe's Bar & Grill" is probably true. But if she says "I would never go to a place like Joe's Bar" it is likely a sign of deception. There is room for creative torture of the meanings of words in the second statement.

The problem with the word "never", and really with any denial, is the rationalizations which go with it. Jerry's wife's statement that she "never touched him" could be rationalized away in her mind as he touched her. Or, she never touched him with her big toe (but she did with every other part of her body).

Of course a denial can be a total lie. And I agree that the other parts of the conversation such as push back or counter accusations are suggestive of guilt.

My counselor advised me to avoid the accusation, but it is ok to ask questions. For example, I asked my wife if there had ever been any affairs, physical or emotional, with any man or woman. What I did not do is say to her that I believe she had an affair with Joe or Jane.

When there isn't solid proof it is better to ask about a red flag than to make an accusation. In many cases from what we see on this forum it is better to STFU, say nothing at all, and observe for further clues.


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## jaffab

Agreed - "I would never..." is deflection... "would" is a future term so the words are twisted. "Have" (as in "I have never been") is present/past is denial.

But (added after thought), but to my original thought.... how long should you go on torturing yourself, sneaking VARs into cars, checking phones, thinking the worst? And what happens when she has to brake suddenly and the VAR slips from its hiding place into the footwell and she finds it - then the merry-go-round starts all over again.

Whereas, there are more common signs - phones that never leave peoples side, more time than normal spent from home etc. Maybe waiting for this change in behaviour is better, wait for these to happen (or not happen), and just get on with life/alpha-ing up?


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## Chaparral

"So i make a huge mistake and ask her if she is cheating on me. She gets really defensive and says no. I tell her i've had this bad feeling for a while. I do not tell her who i think it is though. She of course tells me i have no proof. "

I always thought this was on odd way to put it. "She of course tells me i have no proof." Instead of say, "why in the world would you think that?" after she denied it.


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## Chaparral

"The red flags do come up in my mind and this neighbor not coming around all of a sudden after i accuse her really makes me think even more." I can't remember the sequence. She doesn't know who you think she may have had an affair with or now she knows you suspect the neighbor?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> "The red flags do come up in my mind and this neighbor not coming around all of a sudden after i accuse her really makes me think even more." I can't remember the sequence. She doesn't know who you think she may have had an affair with or now she knows you suspect the neighbor?


Oh, on the night I first accused her I did not say who I thought it was. She got pissed right away, first saying "what, are you serious. What proof do you have. " 

I did not say I suspect neighbor at that point. She would not even talk to me the whole night. She keep saying I will never forget you asking me that. I said good, I don't ever want you to forget. 

The next night after we both calmed down I told her all the red flags. That's when she put her hands up in the air (like It was a stick up) and said "I have never touched him". 


Now that I think of it, when I accused she never did say with who. But just asked what proof I had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> Oh, on the night I first accused her I did not say who I thought it was. She got pissed right away, first saying "what, are you serious. What proof do you have. "
> 
> I did not say I suspect neighbor at that point. She would not even talk to me the whole night. She keep saying I will never forget you asking me that. I said good, I don't ever want you to forget.
> 
> The next night after we both calmed down I told her all the red flags. That's when she put her hands up in the air (like It was a stick up) and said "I have never touched him".
> 
> 
> Now that I think of it, when I accused she never did say with who. But just asked what proof I had.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See Jerry. You just proved to us that she tries to maintain control at all times.

You should stay vigilant and keep up the Alpha behavior.

HM64


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry, as long as you are relaxed enough to lay low, keep doing it. Yeah, her cheating would put you in a bad place, but I see her whole personality, "emotionlessness, topdog no normal daily maturnalness " are the big issues. It would be interesting if you was to ask one day, if she talked to neighbor about your accusation. If she say no, then you could comment, how he don't come around since then. The only thing is, it would show you are still watchful. And right now, she thinks she is still beating you, so she maybe will try to sneak one in. I could see her using the dinner as a chance to hookup with neighbor, and use your car to get her lil extra kick as payback. This may be your best time to bust her as* if you could get someone to watch the kids after she left.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Now that I think of it, when I accused she never did say with who. But just asked what proof I had.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you think this means she had no idea who you were talking about or was taking it for granted who you were talking about. Was she surprised when you told her about the redflags and who you thought she was having an affair with?

Any more thoughts on why she was depressed enough to stay in bed all day? Has she ever done that before?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Do you think this means she had no idea who you were talking about or was taking it for granted who you were talking about. Was she surprised when you told her about the redflags and who you thought she was having an affair with?
> 
> Any more thoughts on why she was depressed enough to stay in bed all day? Has she ever done that before?


I think she knew right away who I was talking about...and when I did bring him up with red flags she listened to my who story. 


As for being depressed, I don't know for sure. 

Right now I am in good mindset of bringing on more Alpha which is what she responds to. 

We will be going on a NYC trip next weekend, just the two of us for 3 days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

OldWolf57 said:


> Jerry, as long as you are relaxed enough to lay low, keep doing it. Yeah, her cheating would put you in a bad place, but I see her whole personality, "emotionlessness, topdog no normal daily maturnalness " are the big issues. It would be interesting if you was to ask one day, if she talked to neighbor about your accusation. If she say no, then you could comment, how he don't come around since then. The only thing is, it would show you are still watchful. And right now, she thinks she is still beating you, so she maybe will try to sneak one in. I could see her using the dinner as a chance to hookup with neighbor, and use your car to get her lil extra kick as payback. This may be your best time to bust her as* if you could get someone to watch the kids after she left.


Yeah, I'm being very relaxed about everything now. As for her having to beat me at things just makes me shake my head. 

She went to a work function last night, GPS confirmed it and will listen to VAR today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I think she knew right away who I was talking about...and when I did bring him up with red flags she listened to my who story.
> 
> 
> As for being depressed, I don't know for sure.
> 
> Right now I am in good mindset of bringing on more Alpha which is what she responds to.
> 
> We will be going on a NYC trip next weekend, just the two of us for 3 days.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good to hear. I remember you saying she was hesitant to go after telling you yes. Remember no strip clubs and lap dances -- so she can't throw that in your face !!


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Yeah, I'm being very relaxed about everything now. As for her having to beat me at things just makes me shake my head.
> 
> She went to a work function last night, GPS confirmed it and will listen to VAR today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did she have your car ??


----------



## jerry123

Nope, never asked to take it again. Was strange thing to ask that one time. It would have been sitting in a garage the whole time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Good to hear. I remember you saying she was hesitant to go after telling you yes. Remember no strip clubs and lap dances -- so she can't throw that in your face !!


I know, she does want to go to museum of sex though. Should be interesting...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I know, she does want to go to museum of sex though. Should be interesting...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I now have to google museum of sex !!!:lol:


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> I now have to google museum of sex !!!:lol:


It sounds interesting, did some research last week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57

Like the way you doing this Jerry. Either way this go, you will be the example for many we can point to. You and HH, are handling your problems very well for the situtiations being what they are. Have a GOOD DAY!!


----------



## Chaparral

If you think she knew who you were talking about with out giving her any clues and he has started acting squirrelly since, that is pretty damning. Although now that I think about it, he didn't act squirrrelly until you brought him up by name. Like she did not know who you were talking about.. ONTH it still looks like she may have contacted him after you accused him. Unless he was reading your actions. How confusing can it get?

Maybe you should look into miniature VAR for her purse.


----------



## Chaparral

I apologize if I have fed any suspicions. I still think (hope?) she isn't having an affair.


----------



## bandit.45

Oh I think she has had several affairs. 

She's just not sure which one he knows about. I wouldn't trust this woman as far as I could stretch her handcuffs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

Deleted, wrong post quoted


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Oh I think she has had several affairs.
> 
> She's just not sure which one he knows about. I wouldn't trust this woman as far as I could stretch her handcuffs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I also have thought the same thing, the red flags with neighbor and the VAR picking up her texting when i was at IC. Her repeating the college appt text to herself.

If having affairs gets her off, then me confronting her about neighbor stopped that because i was on to her. Then now possibly meeting someone at one of her college tours for work.

Thing is, i believe at some point she can't keep this up and stayed married to me. If she is in a "fog" and confident she won't get caught then that will be the time she messes up.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> If you think she knew who you were talking about with out giving her any clues and he has started acting squirrelly since, that is pretty damning. Although now that I think about it, he didn't act squirrrelly until you brought him up by name. Like she did not know who you were talking about.. ONTH it still looks like she may have contacted him after you accused him. Unless he was reading your actions. How confusing can it get?
> 
> Maybe you should look into miniature VAR for her purse.


Will look into that, she has a big briefcase for work so i will try and find a good place to hide one.


----------



## jerry123

Just had a divine thought...

My wife keeps asking me what i talk about in IC, i've only been to 3 but next time she asks i will say this.

We talked about how i am making myself a better person for ME, how i have both eyes wide open to what is/was happening in our marriage. (not an accusation)

How in the past you would disrespect me and it could have been something you were doing on purpose or not even realizing it.

Also, tell her that IC is really making me the man i should be in this marriage.

No one has to respond to this, just thought i would write down what came to my mind and how this is helping me...

Thanks

Edited to add: Wow, my story has had almost 50,000 views. I guess my life is exciting to some people. LOL


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Just had a divine thought...
> 
> My wife keeps asking me what i talk about in IC, i've only been to 3 but next time she asks i will say this.
> 
> We talked about how i am making myself a better person for ME, how i have both eyes wide open to what is/was happening in our marriage. (not an accusation)
> 
> How in the past you would disrespect me and it could have been something you were doing on purpose or not even realizing it.
> 
> Also, tell her that IC is really making me the man i should be in this marriage.
> 
> No one has to respond to this, just thought i would write down what came to my mind and how this is helping me...
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Edited to add: Wow, my story has had almost 50,000 views. I guess my life is exciting to some people. LOL


I think you should write things down -- like you did here.

But at this moment -- I wouldn't say a word about your IC.
IMO -- this is one area you are "winning" and have the advantage -- and my guess it is "killing" her not being in control.

Also, I would imagine that this topic will come up during your 3 days trip with her to NYC. I would bet you a beer on this :lol:

Just my 2 cents !


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> I think you should write things down -- like you did here.
> 
> But at this moment -- I wouldn't say a word about your IC.
> IMO -- this is one area you are "winning" and have the advantage -- and my guess it is "killing" her not being in control.
> 
> Also, I would imagine that this topic will come up during your 3 days trip with her to NYC. I would bet you a beer on this :lol:
> 
> Just my 2 cents !


Yes, that is what i plan on bringing up during our trip.

And that is the exact thought i had.."winning"


----------



## Acabado

Is interesant how she brings the power trip she's displaying to the sexual relationship, the lap dances suggestions, the resistance in bed to your new ''dominant'' mindset, now the sex musseum suggestion...


----------



## jerry123

Acabado said:


> Is interesant how she brings the power trip she's displaying to the sexual relationship, the lap dances suggestions, the resistance in bed to your new ''dominant'' mindset, now the sex musseum suggestion...


Yeah, I'm seeing my wife is a highly sexual person. Which most men would love but that can turn out to be a bad thing also. I have never turned down one suggestion she has had. 

Even asked her to get crotchless panties (idea from a thread i read on TAM) this morning, told her Victoria secrets may have them. She said they probably don't but we could look in NYC when we go next week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

Do you like her most as dominatrix or submisive?
A soft bondage kit might make the deal.


----------



## jerry123

Acabado said:


> Do you like her most as dominatrix or submisive?
> A soft bondage kit might make the deal.


Oh, submissive of course but she has a hard time giving up power. I'm slowly trying to change that. 

I bought a starter restraint kit. That's what I used last week, she was into it but fought me when I tried dominating her. I think she was worried about giving up even any kind of power. 

Then that night she role played herself being a hooker and me screwing the hooker and then coming home to my wife and screwing her. That was a shocker but I went along with it. Probably not the best thing to do since it may be her way of justifying things she may have done in past and by getting me to play along in her mind I was cheating. LOL, I may be over thinking that though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

^ 


:FIREdevil:


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> Oh, submissive of course but she has a hard time giving up power. I'm slowly trying to change that.
> 
> I bought a starter restraint kit. That's what I used last week, she was into it but fought me when I tried dominating her. I think she was worried about giving up even any kind of power.
> 
> Then that night she role played herself being a hooker and me screwing the hooker and then coming home to my wife and screwing her. That was a shocker but I went along with it. Probably not the best thing to do since it may be her way of justifying things she may have done in past and by getting me to play along in her mind I was cheating. LOL, I may be over thinking that though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It may justify it in* her *mind, but not when or if you do find out she has been cheating on you. Don't let her use that kinky fantasy-play as a weapon to say you would have cheated too if given the chance.


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> It may justify it in* her *mind, but not when or if you do find out she has been cheating on you. Don't let her use that kinky fantasy-play as a weapon to say you would have cheated too if given the chance.


Or try to turn it round so she can say: "But you can see from this role playing that my husband was heavily into fantasies about affairs. He _made_ me have the affairs! _sob!_ And... and... he tied me up, your honour!" !


----------



## jh52

Why don't you turn the fantasy around and role play where she picks you up as a stranger and has sex -- then goes home to her husband and gives him the "BEST" sex he ever had.:lol:

If you read enough of this forum -- that fantasy above is not really a fantasy!!


----------



## bandit.45

jh52 said:


> Why don't you turn the fantasy around and role play where she picks you up as a stranger and has sex -- then goes home to her husband and gives him the "BEST" sex he ever had.:lol:
> 
> If you read enough of this forum -- that fantasy above is not really a fantasy!!


Yeah, yeah!! And dress up like your neighbor!


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, yeah!! And dress up like your neighbor!


Oh! _I_ know! Get some special effects model firm to make a mask of your neighbour so you can dress and look exactly like him!

But can you pass toxic gas like he can? Better eat lots of chilli and beans to be able to do that!:rofl:


----------



## Shaggy

Have her call by the neighbors name or alternatively call her the neighbors wife's name.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Jerry,
The museum of sex is interesting. Your wife will like it.

Let me know the days you will be in NYC and I will give you be or two suggestions for a club or show that you and your wife will find interesting.

Better than strip clubs as there are only 2 or 3 worth going to in Ny that are worth the time And money.

But it depends on what nights you 2 are in town.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Jerry,
> The museum of sex is interesting. Your wife will like it.
> 
> Let me know the days you will be in NYC and I will give you be or two suggestions for a club or show that you and your wife will find interesting.
> 
> Better than strip clubs as there are only 2 or 3 worth going to in Ny that are worth the time And money.
> 
> But it depends on what nights you 2 are in town.
> 
> HM64
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks man!!!

We want to see book of Mormons on broadway. But I heard it is hard to get tickets. We are going next Friday, Saturday, Sunday. 

There is a strip club I want to try that supposed to serve good steaks. I don't have the name now but I will google it. I think we may hit a strip club but no lap dance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

MattMatt said:


> Oh! _I_ know! Get some special effects model firm to make a mask of your neighbour so you can dress and look exactly like him!
> 
> But can you pass toxic gas like he can? Better eat lots of chilli and beans to be able to do that!:rofl:


You guys are brutal!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

Did you get a chance to check the VAR from her work function night ??


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Did you get a chance to check the VAR from her work function night ??


Yes, nothing out of ordinary. 

She has another next Monday. 

These are the functions that have the interns from college.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

couple of items at brickhouse:

Cell Phone Recon: Mobile Phone Tracker Monitors Messages, Calls & More

Voice Activated Audio Recorder | Record the Conversations that Matter

Smart phone device and VAR pen


----------



## warlock07

There are other major problems in the marriage but there isn't any proof of infidelity. I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions here without any proof. It is poisonous to jerry's marriage. 

His wife is in a lose-lose scenario. If she is cheating, jerry is right and if she isn't, she is hiding it better. The gut feeling might well be a red herring


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> There are other major problems in the marriage but there isn't any proof of infidelity. I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions here without any proof. It is poisonous to jerry's marriage.
> 
> His wife is in a lose-lose scenario. If she is cheating, jerry is right and if she isn't, she is hiding it better. The gut feeling might well be a red herring


I agree to a point, the major problem (other than a possible A) is her disconnect from me and kids. Working on that, but she is married to her job. She is there longer than she is at home.

The damn power thing is driving me crazy, that alone takes so much energy out of me. The lack of emotion and lack of empathy toward me is just crazy...

This is what gets me, no matter how hard i try and get things to work, going to IC, being more Alpha, changing myself, if there is a 3rd person in this marriage all is for nothing. 

That is where i am at now. I see a change in here for a few days, then back to the same old her. And that VAR recording of her saying "oh man, i'm beating him" shows me it is all a f'in game to her, not a marriage but a GAME and she has to win.


----------



## Almostrecovered

don't worry, you'll get to the bottom of this

















in 2015


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> I agree to a point, the major problem (other than a possible A) is her disconnect from me and kids. Working on that, but she is married to her job. She is there longer than she is at home.


Do you ever text her during the day, just to ask how it's going? I found that touching base at least 2-3x during the day really helped my H and I reconnect (that and eating lunch near his office 1 to 2x every couple of weeks). The plus was that my H can answer back most of the time even when he's on conference calls or in meetings.

Did you ever get her to take a Her Needs questionnaire and the 5 Love Languages quiz? Also the Love Busters quiz. I am so curious what she ranks as important on those. Sorry if I missed that in your 2nd thread that has over 1,000 posts...


----------



## Almostrecovered

just to ask, have you ever brought up the subject of transparency?


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> Do you ever text her during the day, just to ask how it's going? I found that touching base at least 2-3x during the day really helped my H and I reconnect (that and eating lunch near his office 1 to 2x every couple of weeks). The plus was that my H can answer back most of the time even when he's on conference calls or in meetings.
> 
> Did you ever get her to take a Her Needs questionnaire and the 5 Love Languages quiz? Also the Love Busters quiz. I am so curious what she ranks as important on those. Sorry if I missed that in your 2nd thread that has over 1,000 posts...


If i don't email her during the day i would get nothing from her. Not a call, not a email. She says her day is too busy, meetings all the time.

I feel if i give that questionnaire to her or other marriage books, i will get these looks from her like stop being a pu##y. 

The roles are so reversed in our marriage and that is what kills me. I have changed being a SAHD and i hate it. I am changing myself though but i feel she is just trying hard to push me back since losing the control means her losing...

It's hard to describe unless you are in my shoes...but i do appreciate all the advice here.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> If i don't email her during the day i would get nothing from her. Not a call, not a email. She says her day is too busy, meetings all the time.
> 
> I feel if i give that questionnaire to her or other marriage books, i will get these looks from her like stop being a pu##y.
> 
> The roles are so reversed in our marriage and that is what kills me. I have changed being a SAHD and i hate it. I am changing myself though but i feel she is just trying hard to push me back since losing the control means her losing...
> 
> It's hard to describe unless you are in my shoes...but i do appreciate all the advice here.


That is pretty heart-breaking.

I am a rather dominant woman. That is probably half our marriage problems in a nutshell right there. I had to make a decision that I married who I married, and I was going to have to meet him from where he was coming from. That it didn't make me weaker, or him less of a husband or man, if I used some tenderness instead of a steamroller now and again. Actually, I put the steamroller away. I know how to use it, what's the point? I'm done being always right and needing the upper hand. In many ways, it's a sign of weakness and lack of self-confidence, rather than the other way around.

The only way around this is to get it to come from the marriage counselor, rather than you. I totally get that you asking her these questions makes you the GF instead of her Man. The MC seems willing to work with you this way.


----------



## vi_bride04

iheartlife said:


> That is pretty heart-breaking.
> 
> I am a rather dominant woman. That is probably half our marriage problems in a nutshell right there. I had to make a decision that I married who I married, and I was going to have to meet him from where he was coming from. That it didn't make me weaker, or him less of a husband or man, if I used some tenderness instead of a steamroller now and again. Actually, I put the steamroller away. I know how to use it, what's the point? I'm done being always right and needing the upper hand. In many ways, it's a sign of weakness and lack of self-confidence, rather than the other way around.
> 
> The only way around this is to get it to come from the marriage counselor, rather than you. I totally get that you asking her these questions makes you the GF instead of her Man. The MC seems willing to work with you this way.


Thanks for giving me something to think about here. I am also quite a dominant woman...I don't want to bring some of these qualities into my next serious, committed relationship as it does throw off the balance of male/female "power"


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> That is pretty heart-breaking.
> 
> I am a rather dominant woman. That is probably half our marriage problems in a nutshell right there. I had to make a decision that I married who I married, and I was going to have to meet him from where he was coming from. That it didn't make me weaker, or him less of a husband or man, if I used some tenderness instead of a steamroller now and again. Actually, I put the steamroller away. I know how to use it, what's the point? I'm done being always right and needing the upper hand. In many ways, it's a sign of weakness and lack of self-confidence, rather than the other way around.
> 
> The only way around this is to get it to come from the marriage counselor, rather than you. I totally get that you asking her these questions makes you the GF instead of her Man. The MC seems willing to work with you this way.


 
It is heart breaking since she was not always this way. 

To be honest, after reading someones post here about how they can see me having an affair some day really hit me hard. I also can see myself being drawn to a woman who actually cares about me. No, it has not happened and I'm really trying to change the dynamics of my marriage so I won't stray. I keep telling myself I can't think about finding another woman unless I am single. 

Trust me, I've gotten so many compliments from woman/friends about the way i look and it feels good to hear these things. 

Even With the lack of emotion from her and the constant power trips I find it amazing that I can still have the strength to try and make my marriage going strong and stay faithful. 

A lesser man would have caved by now and would be looking for a woman to meet their needs. And the funny thing is, sex is not the problem in my marriage. It's the lack of respect I feel from her that is eating at me. I became a SAHD for my kids and so my wife can accelerate in her career. And this is what I get in return.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> If i don't email her during the day i would get nothing from her. Not a call, not a email. She says her day is too busy, meetings all the time.
> 
> I feel if i give that questionnaire to her or other marriage books, i will get these looks from her like stop being a pu##y.
> 
> The roles are so reversed in our marriage and that is what kills me. I have changed being a SAHD and i hate it. I am changing myself though but i feel she is just trying hard to push me back since losing the control means her losing...
> 
> It's hard to describe unless you are in my shoes...but i do appreciate all the advice here.


 Not being able to bring up the books and communicating with your wife ( after she ahs a little time to decompress after work) is being afraid and literally BEING a pu$$y. Do the opposite ie., no fear. Anytime she treats you like you are a pu$$y is a great time to show her you are not a pu$$y and that is exactly why things are (not have to) going to change. As a matter of fact I would bait her (occasionally) into situations where she might pull that sh!t and then let her have it. Is she with you and the family or is she against you and family life.

Quite frankly, I think she is somewhat overwhelmed by her job and the demands of her family. I don't think she is as much a controlling person as much as she is afraid everything is going to go to hell. Spending a day in bed is not something a confident person would do after a major conforntation.

You have to lead your family but you have to use your intelligence not a stick.


----------



## Chaparral

iheartlife said:


> That is pretty heart-breaking.
> 
> I am a rather dominant woman. That is probably half our marriage problems in a nutshell right there. I had to make a decision that I married who I married, and I was going to have to meet him from where he was coming from. That it didn't make me weaker, or him less of a husband or man, if I used some tenderness instead of a steamroller now and again. Actually, I put the steamroller away. I know how to use it, what's the point? I'm done being always right and needing the upper hand. In many ways, it's a sign of weakness and lack of self-confidence, rather than the other way around.
> 
> The only way around this is to get it to come from the marriage counselor, rather than you. I totally get that you asking her these questions makes you the GF instead of her Man. The MC seems willing to work with you this way.


Thinking you have the upper hand/last word, just means the other person has given up on you, NOT that you have won an arguement but that you have lost by default.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> It is heart breaking since she was not always this way.
> 
> To be honest, after reading someones post here about how they can see me having an affair some day really hit me hard. I also can see myself being drawn to a woman who actually cares about me. No, it has not happened and I'm really trying to change the dynamics of my marriage so I won't stray. I keep telling myself I can't think about finding another woman unless I am single.
> 
> Trust me, I've gotten so many compliments from woman/friends about the way i look and it feels good to hear these things.
> 
> Even With the lack of emotion from her and the constant power trips I find it amazing that I can still have the strength to try and make my marriage going strong and stay faithful.
> 
> A lesser man would have caved by now and would be looking for a woman to meet their needs. And the funny thing is, sex is not the problem in my marriage. It's the lack of respect I feel from her that is eating at me. I became a SAHD for my kids and so my wife can accelerate in her career. And this is what I get in return.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does your wife know you are getting compliments frome other women? If not why not?


----------



## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> Not being able to bring up the books and communicating with your wife ( after she ahs a little time to decompress after work) is being afraid and literally BEING a pu$$y. Do the opposite ie., no fear. Anytime she treats you like you are a pu$$y is a great time to show her you are not a pu$$y and that is exactly why things are (not have to) going to change. As a matter of fact I would bait her (occasionally) into situations where she might pull that sh!t and then let her have it. Is she with you and the family or is she against you and family life.


Thank you for saying that.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Does your wife know you are getting compliments frome other women? If not why not?


Yes, i tell her every compliment i get...

BTW, had a great IC session today. Opened my eyes a lot to why i am where i am in this marriage.

Told MC about this neighbor not coming around since i accused my wife. She had a smile on her face and said yup, isn't that strange. 

I have so much confidence right now going into fathers day weekend.


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> Yes, i tell her every compliment i get...
> 
> BTW, had a great IC session today. Opened my eyes a lot to why i am where i am in this marriage.
> 
> Told MC about this neighbor not coming around since i accused my wife. She had a smile on her face and said yup, isn't that strange.
> 
> I have so much confidence right now going into fathers day weekend.


Have a great Fathers Day Jerry! Let us know how it went.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Have a great Fathers Day Jerry! Let us know how it went.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks!!!

I have a clear mind now...should be an interesting weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Thanks!!!
> 
> I have a clear mind now...should be an interesting weekend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Any particular reason this weekend should be interesting ?? 

All your recent weekends have been -- what I will call eventful -- and I know next weekend will be the most intersting yet.

Hope she and the kids do something special for father's day for YOU!!


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Any particular reason this weekend should be interesting ??
> 
> All your recent weekends have been -- what I will call eventful -- and I know next weekend will be the most intersting yet.
> 
> Hope she and the kids do something special for father's day for YOU!!


I'll explain after this weekend. She has planned nothing. Probably because we are going to NYC next week. Actually she asked me what I wanted to do, I have a idea about going on a picnic with all of us to this park that has waterfalls. 

And yes, all my weekends should have been the way they were the past 8 weeks. It's only when I've stepped up the Alpha and told her about the changes I want that the weekends have been better. Most likely it's me taking charge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> I'll explain after this weekend. She has planned nothing. Probably because we are going to NYC next week. Actually she asked me what I wanted to do, I have a idea about going on a picnic with all of us to this park that has waterfalls.
> 
> And yes, all my weekends should have been the way they were the past 8 weeks. It's only when I've stepped up the Alpha and told her about the changes I want that the weekends have been better. Most likely it's me taking charge.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep up the "new" Jerry.

Glad she at least asked what you wanted to do -- shows she isn't the "tin man" quite yet.

A picnic at a waterpark sounds like a great family think to do.

One more reason to go to water park -- show off that new bod and have the other women check you out as your wife watches !! Just kidding -- I think.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Keep up the "new" Jerry.
> 
> Glad she at least asked what you wanted to do -- shows she isn't the "tin man" quite yet.
> 
> A picnic at a waterpark sounds like a great family think to do.
> 
> One more reason to go to water park -- show off that new bod and have the other women check you out as your wife watches !! Just kidding -- I think.



LOL, actually MMSG says there is nothing wrong with getting compliments and stares from other woman. As long as you know how to handle them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> LOL, actually MMSG says there is nothing wrong with getting compliments and stares from other woman. As long as you know how to handle them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right now I don't think anyone of this board is worried about you being unfaithful !!:smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## Acabado

> Keep up the "new" Jerry


Ditto!!!


----------



## Chaparral

Happy Fathers Day

Have you thought if there is any other reason/reasons neighbor boy may be avoiding you? Was the last time you had a convo when you pulled up beside him at a stop sign? Could he have gotten some attitude from that?

Also even if nothing happened sexually your wife might have told him you thought there was. Just wondering.

Heard some people talking about their fathers on Focus On the Family this morning, it was amazing/eye opening. I'm sure your kids think they have an amazing Dad. Keep it up.

Good luck and prayers this weekend 

Chap


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Happy Fathers Day
> 
> Have you thought if there is any other reason/reasons neighbor boy may be avoiding you? Was the last time you had a convo when you pulled up beside him at a stop sign? Could he have gotten some attitude from that?
> 
> Also even if nothing happened sexually your wife might have told him you thought there was. Just wondering.
> 
> 
> Heard some people talking about their fathers on Focus On the Family this morning, it was amazing/eye opening. I'm sure your kids think they have an amazing Dad. Keep it up.
> 
> Good luck and prayers this weekend
> 
> Chap



Funny thing is, that's the last conv. I have had with him. Seriously, it can't be coincidence that 1 week later I accuse her after the stop sign talk and wahla, he never comes around. 

You don't need to be Forest Gump to know "stupid is as stupid does...". Biggest red flag since the beggining of suspicion. 

Thanks, happy dads day to all the faithful fathers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Soone ror later you are going to have to ask your wife why neighbor boy quit coming around/calling as soon as you accused him. Just like he was warned or something and then see what she says , how she reacts.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Soone ror later you are going to have to ask your wife why neighbor boy quit coming around/calling as soon as you accused him. Just like he was warned or something and then see what she says , how she reacts.


Bingo, I am waiting for the right time for that. I am trying to think of the best time to spring it on her. It's got to be a surprise thing since her reaction will tell me a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Bingo, I am waiting for the right time for that. I am trying to think of the best time to spring it on her. It's got to be a surprise thing since her reaction will tell me a lot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not before a weekend. Like a Tues night, right after she has gone up to bed. Or in the morning at coffee. People aren't usually as prepared early in the morning.

And tell her the timing was just to damn obvious.


----------



## happyman64

Jerry,
Just enjoy the weekend with your wife and kids.

Keep being Alpha and take charge of your family.

Decide what you want to do and where you want your life and marriage to go.

Then make it happen.

Kep inviting your wife on the journey. Sooner rather than later you will get your answer.

Make yourself happy.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Bingo, I am waiting for the right time for that. I am trying to think of the best time to spring it on her. It's got to be a surprise thing since her reaction will tell me a lot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jerry you tried this once when you accused her of having an affair with nothing concrete. 

Just keep up what you are doing. You are going to win this by being the "new" you --and going to IC.

If you want to get a better plan --- about neighbor --- ask your IC. She is getting to know you better -- and met with your wife once.

Confronting her now with no evidence will do nothing but set you back.

The key is letting your wife think you are letting your guard down -- when in reality you are not -- that is if she is cheating !!!

This is a marathon at the moment and not a sprint.

If something did happen -- it will all come out eventually.

Did you ever think neighbor is not coming around because he has his sites set on another neighbor/woman -- or is in an affair with another neighbor/woman? 

Just stuff to think about -- without dwelling on anything.


----------



## Thor

jh52 said:


> Confronting her now with no evidence will do nothing but set you back.
> 
> The key is letting your wife think you are letting your guard down -- when in reality you are not -- that is if she is cheating !!!


If she is cheating, she will not suddenly tell the truth. You may get some kind of suspicious reaction, but you will still have nothing concrete. If she was cheating before but is no longer, you will not get her to suddenly confess her prior affair.

If she is not cheating, multiple accusations can be harmful. There is obviously something wrong, but it it isn't cheating you don't want to sabotage a possible rebuilding of your marriage.

She needs to lower her guard before she will make a mistake which gives you proof positive of an affair (if one is going on).

Even with a fairly strong yet still circumstantial case of her cheating you will not have certainty yourself and you will not "force her" to confess. Really. BTDT myself this past year. And then it escalates to her being upset about me repeatedly accusing her of cheating. In reality I have asked once in private at home, then she brought up my question to our MC the next week and I was asked to say what the red flags were. And then I asked her about the razor I found in the car a few months later.

If anything, my wife's red flags are stronger than what your wife exhibits. I have actual smoking gun evidence with the razor, just minus the CSI lab DNA test for ownership. And I am still not 100% certain about affairs or OM identities. She has wiggle room to deny and to bludgeon me.


----------



## t_hopper_2012

This thread has never been so quiet.


----------



## Humble Pie

Jerry is in NYC... i think


----------



## Almostrecovered

going to strip joints with Happyman?


----------



## t_hopper_2012

If so, he's having a hot time - it got up to 96 yesterday.


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> Jerry is in NYC... i think


Going tomorrow afternoon...

I've held off updating until there was more interesting things going on. One thing i am finding out is she values her job more than our marriage.
She was afraid to tell me about a new role she is taking on at work, sort of a promotion but no pay increase yet. She knew i would say something about her and her job if she mentioned it to me.

She already spends 11 hours a day there, and said "Well, if you want us to keep this lifestyle up i have to deal with her more concentrated with work."

I said i won't sacrifice our family time for the lifestyle we live. Not in a way to start a fight but to let her know she needs to concentrate on family while she is at home.

Going to NYC for 3 days, museum of sex is first thing we are stopping by. She asked about strip club, i said we will see. She wants to try Ricks Cabaret, it is supposed to be known for a good steak and hot women.

She has not mentioned me getting a lap dance yet, but probably will when we get there. 

Thanks everyone for getting me to this point, i still have not found anything with VAR/GPS....it might be her "job" that is the wedge between us.


----------



## happyman64

Very funny AR but Happyman is happily married to a woman that would kill me if I went into a strip club and paid for a lap dance when I can have one at home for free.

Also with three young daughters (18,13, 11) at home I honestly do not feel good going into strip clubs and have not done so in over ten years. Maybe I am getting old but all the young guys I work with tell me where the good place are. Hell, seen one and you have seen them all is my motto.

So no, Jerry is on his own with his wife in NY.

But I am going to give him a few suggestions where he can take his wife for some terrific views and if she really gets frisky I might even tell him where to go and tie her up.

Hell, he might get more answers to his questions if he ties her up the right way and in the right room!!!!

So fear not Jerry, info is on the way and I will enjoy living this weekend through you.

By the way it is hot as hell in NY so dress lightly.....

HM64


----------



## jerry123

Ok, thanks. I will...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mario Kempes

jerry123 said:


> *She has not mentioned me getting a lap dance yet, but probably will when we get there.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Careful, Jerry! If she does something with an OM over the next few weeks, and you find out, you don't want her to be able to try to justify it by saying . . . "Well, you had a lap dance in New York . . ."


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Going tomorrow afternoon...
> 
> I've held off updating until there was more interesting things going on. One thing i am finding out is she values her job more than our marriage.
> She was afraid to tell me about a new role she is taking on at work, sort of a promotion but no pay increase yet. She knew i would say something about her and her job if she mentioned it to me.
> 
> She already spends 11 hours a day there, and said "Well, if you want us to keep this lifestyle up i have to deal with her more concentrated with work."
> 
> I said i won't sacrifice our family time for the lifestyle we live. Not in a way to start a fight but to let her know she needs to concentrate on family while she is at home.
> 
> Going to NYC for 3 days, museum of sex is first thing we are stopping by. She asked about strip club, i said we will see. She wants to try Ricks Cabaret, it is supposed to be known for a good steak and hot women.
> 
> She has not mentioned me getting a lap dance yet, but probably will when we get there.
> 
> Thanks everyone for getting me to this point, i still have not found anything with VAR/GPS....it might be her "job" that is the wedge between us.




You sure she doesn't have any girl friends? Get HER the lap dance! Insist upon it and take a picture. But under no circumstance let her get you one. That's what bosses do for their hired help.

LOL Have a good time.


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry,does this promo involve more travel or hours ??


----------



## vi_bride04

Mario Kempes said:


> jerry123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *She has not mentioned me getting a lap dance yet, but probably will when we get there.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Careful, Jerry! If she does something with an OM over the next few weeks, and you find out, you don't want her to be able to try to justify it by saying . . . "Well, you had a lap dance in New York . . ."
> 
> 
> 
> I instantly thought the same thing. Maybe she is trying to convince you to go in the VIP room. That would totally justify cheating in her mind...if she is indeed cheating or thinking about it....
Click to expand...


----------



## jerry123

vi_bride04 said:


> Mario Kempes said:
> 
> 
> 
> I instantly thought the same thing. Maybe she is trying to convince you to go in the VIP room. That would totally justify cheating in her mind...if she is indeed cheating or thinking about it....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, VIP room is way too expensive. And yes, I told her I want her to get a lap dance during sex last night. Of course she said she would but that could have been sex talk.
> 
> 
> Been doing a lot of thinking last few days, realize to get respect I need to respect myself and stay strong. Seems to me when I show her I am strong and confident she notices it but at the same time she tries to bring me down. It's sad, pathetic, and no way a wife should treat her husband that way.
> 
> No, promo does not include more travel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


----------



## Chaparral

Some people are always testing. I think it has to do more with their own insecurities. I think women like to wrap men around their fingers but don't like it when they do. As a matter of fact, I don't doubt it. That's why guys that are too nice get walked on and walked out on.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Some people are always testing. I think it has to do more with their own insecurities. I think women like to wrap men around their fingers but don't like it when they do. As a matter of fact, I don't doubt it. That's why guys that are too nice get walked on and walked out on.


So true, I also need to look at myself and think back when she used to really beat me down and I just let her get away with it. I never wanted to make waves. 

She knew this and took advantage of it. I just can't fathom why would someone who is supposed to love their spouse do stuff like that. I would beat myself up thinking this, just to realize later I let this happen. 
Knowing this now I am changing it and it's not going to happen again. 
She sees this and it's scares her and feels like its her losing power. 

I am doing things now that are for me and giving myself the respect I so desperately lacked in the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> So true, I also need to look at myself and think back when she used to really beat me down and I just let her get away with it. I never wanted to make waves.
> 
> She knew this and took advantage of it. I just can't fathom why would someone who is supposed to love their spouse do stuff like that. I would beat myself up thinking this, just to realize later I let this happen.
> Knowing this now I am changing it and it's not going to happen again.
> She sees this and it's scares her and feels like its her losing power.
> 
> I am doing things now that are for me and giving myself the respect I so desperately lacked in the past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I think she will come around. Its the natural order of things. She will have to believe you can maintain you rebirth however.

Keep studying MMSL and NMMNG. At least thats what I recommend. The respect will come when she sees she can't push you around and you are as strong as anyone else.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> I think she will come around. Its the natural order of things. She will have to believe you can maintain you rebirth however.
> 
> Keep studying MMSL and NMMNG. At least thats what I recommend. The respect will come when she sees she can't push you around and you are as strong as anyone else.


I have those 2 books on my iPhone kindle. I've re-read them 2 times. It helps me keep up the new me. I do find myself slipping at times. That's when my guard is down and she sees that, tries to capitalize on it and the cycle starts again. But I know better now...


I won't lie, it's hard work juggling the things I have to do and on top of that making sure I get the respect I deserve from her. Being a SAHD is just the hardest thing I have done in my life. I sometimes tell myself it is not worth it but then I look at my kids and to know they are safe and in good hands I say to myself, yes it is all worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

chapparal said:


> You sure she doesn't have any girl friends? Get HER the lap dance! Insist upon it and take a picture. But under no circumstance let her get you one. That's what bosses do for their hired help.
> 
> LOL Have a good time.


youll get thrown out for taking pictures in a strip club


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> youll get thrown out for taking pictures in a strip club


Yes, all strip joints say absolutely no pictures.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MarriedTex

Maybe it's just me and my prudish Midwestern values. But I think lap dance is a hugely bad idea unless she gets something naughty at the strip club, too. 

The better response to this is "The only lap dance I want is the one you're going to give me when we get back to the hotel."

If you've read NMMNG, you know the concept of sh*t tests. I think this is one of those. If you take the lap dance, you're setting yourself up for problems down the line.


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> youll get thrown out for taking pictures in a strip club


You know too much about strip clubs! :slap:


----------



## anonymouskitty

he speaks the truth, i was indeed thrown out of one 17 years ago


----------



## Chaparral

Didn't she read "Fifty Shades of Grey"? How did that turn out?


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> Yes, all strip joints say absolutely no pictures.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure you can get pictures. Hire 2 girls for the dance and have one of them take the pictures. Am i the only NY'r who knows this???


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry, I remember you saying she kept bringing up that last lap dance. Don't put yourself out there for her to feel she has something else over your head. Any lap dance you get, she's the one dancing for you.


----------



## Acabado

She's the one to give the lap dance.
And don't forget to have some bucks for her.


----------



## Almostrecovered

chapparal said:


> You know too much about strip clubs! :slap:



wife and I aren't strangers to them, but have given them up- such a waste of money


----------



## Almostrecovered

happyman64 said:


> Sure you can get pictures. Hire 2 girls for the dance and have one of them take the pictures. Am i the only NY'r who knows this???



hell, I've been to places where you have to coat check your phones


----------



## happyman64

I have been to places where you have to coat check all your clothes. Awkward.

But believe me the pictures I got of the vendor at the strip club enjoying an all nude lap dance paid dividends for my business !!!

I never let him forget..... Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Ricks cabaret Friday night, great dinner there and had a hot blond give her a lap dance. My wife commented how soft the dancers legs were. They talked about skin cream and exchanged ideas about smooth legs during the lap dance. Oh boy...LOL

Made my wife give me a lap dance after we got back to hotel. Gave her dollar bills like someone suggested. Now we are even I told her, ha,ha...great move on my part. Museum of sex was great, weather was great, shows were great!!!

Too much drinking though...it brought us back to when we were dating with no kids. 

Snap back to reality....oh then neighbor guy texted me on way home today. Something about "hey, what's up. How's things". My wife seen text, she says "hmmm, he has not been around". I say, yeah very strange don't you think?" then went into 180 mode after that. Not full 180 mode but a sort of sh$t test. She started being all lovey dovey and kept Checking if I was going to text back. Did not want to ruin weekend but keep my ground. Felt good, still don't know if anything happen but she knows I suspected something and her actions could have been from that day months ago but does seem strange he is texting me now. 

did not reply to him...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jibril

He texted _you_? That _is_ weird.


----------



## iheartlife

How many times has he ever texted you? Odd coincidence doesn't begin to describe that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Neighbor texts you- okay weird coincidence

Wife gets lovey dovey and inquisitive about it? Not such a coincidence


----------



## MattMatt

Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear.

Maybe he found out from a mutual friend or other neighbour that you were away together, or realised you were away at the same time and decided to try to jive you?

Or is he such an utter clueless idiot that he really saw nothing wrong in sending you a text?


----------



## jerry123

MattMatt said:


> Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear.
> 
> He found out from a mutual friend or other neighbour that you were away together and decided to try to jive you?
> 
> Or is he such an utter clueless idiot that he really saw nothing wrong in sending you a text?


Things are getting curiouser and curiouser...

backed of 180 move and acting as things are normal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Things are getting curiouser and curiouser...
> 
> backed of 180 move and acting as things are normal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Welcome back --- and be cool and the new improved Jerry !!


----------



## jh52

MattMatt said:


> Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear.
> 
> Maybe he found out from a mutual friend or other neighbour that you were away together, or realised you were away at the same time and decided to try to jive you?
> 
> Or is he such an utter clueless idiot that he really saw nothing wrong in sending you a text?


Did the kids stay at your house with parents or babysiter ??

Maybe he saw them outside playing and didn't see your two -- and asked whomever where you two were.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Did the kids stay at your house with parents or babysiter ??
> 
> Maybe he saw them outside playing and didn't see your two -- and asked whomever where you two were.


Nope, 3 towns away the kids were. 

And yes, keeping up with new Jerry. Hit the gym at hotel for 2 hours each day. Boy did I get some good looks from NY women!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

You showed disdain for him as mentioned in your earlier posts. So your neighbor knows you dont like him. But your wife have no such disdain.

The simplest answer is that your neighbor was texting your wife and got her work cell number mixed accidentally with your home phone number.


----------



## Jibril

Maybe he has something important to tell you? About your wife, maybe...?

He could simply want a favor from you, but it seems a bit odd, considering how you two haven't really been in contact for a while. Maybe he was trying to reach your wife?

Maybe respond with a "Fine. What's up?" and see what he wants?


----------



## the guy

Hotel sex is so much better then regular,at home sex. I'm glad you guys had a good time to bad POS nieghbor screwed it up.


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> Neighbor texts you- okay weird coincidence
> 
> Wife gets lovey dovey and inquisitive about it? Not such a coincidence


Yet again there were plenty of other reasons for her to belovey dovey. 

OM is fishing. Jerry, you should text back to see what he is fishing for. Unless you are scared. LOL Tell him you and wife have been on sex trip to NY where you banged her silly and she can't walk. ( No, make that neither of you can walk!) Show your wife the text after you send it.

"Ricks cabaret Friday night, great dinner there and had a hot blond give her a lap dance. My wife commented how soft the dancers legs were. They talked about skin cream and exchanged ideas about smooth legs during the lap dance. Oh boy...LOL"

You could not have made this up. Did they actually have time for the dance? How did she react to a woman? Sounds like my girlfriend idea is dead.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Things are getting curiouser and curiouser...
> 
> backed of 180 move and acting as things are normal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think he is just nosey and figured out you were gone. He is just another person you will now demand respect from.............or else.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Yet again there were plenty of other reasons for her to belovey dovey.
> 
> OM is fishing. Jerry, you should text back to see what he is fishing for. Unless you are scared. LOL Tell him you and wife have been on sex trip to NY where you banged her silly and she can't walk. ( No, make that neither of you can walk!) Show your wife the text after you send it.
> 
> "Ricks cabaret Friday night, great dinner there and had a hot blond give her a lap dance. My wife commented how soft the dancers legs were. They talked about skin cream and exchanged ideas about smooth legs during the lap dance. Oh boy...LOL"
> 
> You could not have made this up. Did they actually have time for the dance? How did she react to a woman? Sounds like my girlfriend idea is dead.


Swear on my life I did not make this up. I laughed so hard hearing them talk about moisturizer while my wife rubbed this hot blonds legs. 

The hot blond then told us to go back to hotel and screw all night. I said, ok...

Will never forget that night. 

And neighbor did not mess weekend up at all...I am totally in control. Weekend is not over yet!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> Swear on my life I did not make this up. I laughed so hard hearing them talk about moisturizer while my wife rubbed this hot blonds legs.
> 
> The hot blond then told us to go back to hotel and screw all night. I said, ok...
> 
> Will never forget that night.
> 
> And neighbor did not mess weekend up at all...I am totally in control. Weekend is not over yet!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL at weekend not over !! Sounds like you both had a great time and hopefully she has connected back with you on an emotional level.

Tomorrow will be a test for you when she goes back to work and comes back home -- hopefully she will spend family time with you guys.

Have a good night -- as I am sure you will.


----------



## happyman64

Hey Jerry I am glad your weekend went well in NY.

I thought I heard a thunderstorn Friday night but maybe it was you and the wife getting busy!!!:smthumbup:

Good for you and "F" the neighbor. 

Keep him where you want him. Under your thumb.

HM64


----------



## ShootMePlz!

Since when have you and neighbor/OM been on texting terms?? :scratchhead:


----------



## jerry123

ShootMePlz! said:


> Since when have you and neighbor/OM been on texting terms?? :scratchhead:


Thanks everyone....we are not on texting terms and have not been for 3-4 months. Out of the blue he texted me. 

Thunderstorm did roll through city with some heavy lightning Friday night. Crazy city though, love to visit but just too many people for me to deal with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Do you know if he has ever hit on anyone else's wife?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Do you know if he has ever hit on anyone else's wife?


Thinking back, yes. He has this way about him that when he meets a couple in the neighborhood and he feels comfortable to talk with wife then that's when he acts like an 18 year old. Example, starts with sex jokes, sexual references. 
He did that with my wife over a 1 year period. Not at first though, but when he seen he could hook her in by the way he acts it was his persona all the time. Then a few times he would make sexual references to me about a few other woman around us.

Like, he would ask me if I would "do" these two woman who live near us. I would say no, since I am friends with their husbands and I am also married. 

I am a laid back guy so at the time seeing my wife laugh and giggle I did not think much of it. My wife is not a stuffy person and thought it was all in fun and laughter. Little did I realize at the time what he may be trying to do. I should have stopped it right away...but thing is, I never had to deal with a neighbor like that. Other than him all the other husbands are not that way. 

Seems he is trying to get back in to my life with the text, but I am a bit confused since if he did anything with her he could not possibly have the balls to try again. Or maybe the fact is he was close to doing something but I caught on to him and he stopped.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I think he is fishing with the text. He may have known you went out of town with your wife and is wondering if she told you anything - or possibly fishing to see if she's doing "fun" things with you behind his back?


----------



## Mario Kempes

jerry123 said:


> Swear on my life I did not make this up. *I laughed so hard hearing them talk about moisturizer while my wife rubbed this hot blonds legs.*
> 
> The hot blond then told us to go back to hotel and screw all night. I said, ok...
> 
> Will never forget that night.
> 
> And neighbor did not mess weekend up at all...I am totally in control. Weekend is not over yet!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just a random thought after reading the above, Jerry.... Is there any chance that the OM might be an OW? Has she ever displayed any bi- or lesbian leanings?

As I said, just a random thought....


----------



## jerry123

Mario Kempes said:


> Just a random thought after reading the above, Jerry.... Is there any chance that the OM might be an OW? Has she ever displayed any bi- or lesbian leanings?
> 
> As I said, just a random thought....


Another poster asked the same thing. Hmmm, anything is possible. She has absolutely no girlfriends that I know about. There are woman at her work but if it were the case she was bi I would be shocked. But next time we are having some kinky sex talk I will bring up if she has ever thought about being with a other woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mario Kempes

jerry123 said:


> Another poster asked the same thing. Hmmm, anything is possible. She has absolutely no girlfriends that I know about. There are woman at her work but if it were the case she was bi I would be shocked. But next time we are having some kinky sex talk I will bring up if she has ever thought about being with a other woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or you could ask her if the lady in NY turned her on..........


----------



## jerry123

Mario Kempes said:


> Or you could ask her if the lady in NY turned her on..........


Yes, Thought of that. Trust me, this blond stripper was a 10. 

I think what turned my wife on was the fact her legs were so smooth. 

Anyway, will be interseting to see if neighbor still tries to text me. Come to think of it, he still is on my FB as a friend. And I did post a pic of us in times square. 

Looks like I need to de-friend him now...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mario Kempes

jerry123 said:


> Yes, Thought of that. Trust me, this blond stripper was a 10.
> 
> I think what turned my wife on was the fact her legs were so smooth.
> 
> Anyway, will be interseting to see if neighbor still tries to text me. Come to think of it, he still is on my FB as a friend. And I did post a pic of us in times square.
> 
> *Looks like I need to de-friend him now...*_Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe you should not de-friend him, Jerry. You know, "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer."

Still "having him around" might draw him out into the open quicker, .......... if he's the guy.


----------



## Thor

Is it possible he texted the wrong number? Either he thought he was texting your wife or maybe someone else named Jerry?

I would say don't come to any conclusions at all about the text, because there is no way to know the real story. It is a mystery to be kept in mind as one of the pieces of the puzzle, but no more at this time.


----------



## jerry123

Thor said:


> Is it possible he texted the wrong number? Either he thought he was texting your wife or maybe someone else named Jerry?
> 
> I would say don't come to any conclusions at all about the text, because there is no way to know the real story. It is a mystery to be kept in mind as one of the pieces of the puzzle, but no more at this time.


Oh, when i did not respond the first time he texted again this morning about borrowing a powerwasher. I told him i was in NYC...

And yes, keeping my enemy closer is what i have in mind. Make him believe i have no suspicions any more. Told him to go and grab the powerwasher since i was not home.

Lets see when he decides to return it, my guess is when my wife gets home from work.


----------



## Almostrecovered

tell him he can use the power washer to give himself an enema


(kidding!)


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry, he knew you guys was gone. If he can see your house from his, he knew. All this time, now he contacts you, after he heard you call him an Ahole. Don't let it bother you. He is just trying to reestablish contact. friends close, enemies closer. Laid back, eyes and ears open. Man, if only she could just get over her control issues. You guys could have it all.


----------



## jh52

OldWolf57 said:


> Jerry, he knew you guys was gone. If he can see your house from his, he knew. All this time, now he contacts you, after he heard you call him an Ahole. Don't let it bother you. He is just trying to reestablish contact. friends close, enemies closer. Laid back, eyes and ears open. Man, if only she could just get over her control issues. You guys could have it all.


Totally agree with OldWolf here !!


----------



## jerry123

OldWolf57 said:


> Jerry, he knew you guys was gone. If he can see your house from his, he knew. All this time, now he contacts you, after he heard you call him an Ahole. Don't let it bother you. He is just trying to reestablish contact. friends close, enemies closer. Laid back, eyes and ears open. Man, if only she could just get over her control issues. You guys could have it all.


Oh he can't see my house, but I'm sure he knew we were in NYC. Because his neighbor/friend of mine commented on a FB post. 

I won't be all buddy buddy with him, that would give my wife all the ammo to look down on me after all the red flags I told her about. She will think to herself, why is my husband being all nice to a guy he thinks I was messing around with. Not giving my wife any ammo to throw back at me in future...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

"Lets see when he decides to return it, my guess is when my wife gets home from work."

2 things here:

1) When does neighbor return the powerwash ??

2) Watch wife's reaction -- you should have him bring it back when she is upstairs away from the family. When he gets there tell her the "jerk" is here and you are going to put the powerwasher away with him. See if she comes down from her room.

Just a couple of thoughts.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> "Lets see when he decides to return it, my guess is when my wife gets home from work."
> 
> 2 things here:
> 
> 1) When does neighbor return the powerwash ??
> 
> 2) Watch wife's reaction -- you should have him bring it back when she is upstairs away from the family. When he gets there tell her the "jerk" is here and you are going to put the powerwasher away with him. See if she comes down from her room.
> 
> Just a couple of thoughts.



I have volleyball for an hour tonight, I will set up VAR near door while I'm gone just in case he decides to return it while I am gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## karter

jerry123 said:


> The app is draining battery, although i am not going to control panel and checking since notification will pop up. She told me about battery draining this morning and she thinks my son did something to phone since he was playing with it last week...
> 
> I can contact spy bubble but they make me fill out a ticket and wait.
> 
> If her work can't find anything they may just get her another phone or new battery...by then i hope to have a way to delete app.
> 
> She is actually showing more hugging/kissing/snuggle...of course she is on her period now. Don't know if it has to do with MC tomorrow or her actually listening to the new "me".


Btw, messing with spy wares, I finally found out that my phone was tapped. Try this one: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.antispycell.free
Scans your Android phone for free against spywares. Not quite sure if it was my boss or wife, but it's a little bit shocking when you find then someone tries to mess with your privacy ...


----------



## Almostrecovered

update?


----------



## OldWolf57

he said he would when he had something. he is posting on others thread, so nothing coming thru from her actions or VAR must be.


----------



## Chaparral

I wondering if they have seen the neighbor? If they have cut him off that must be causing some simmering gossip in their neighborhood.


----------



## jerry123

Hi friends...

Been taking a break from TAM since i went on vacation with the wife and kids.
Prior to vaca there has been nothing from GPS or VAR. 

Neighbor has not been around, and funny thing you should mention gossip since friends down the street who know nothing of my suspicion have said to my wife it's strange this "guy neighbor" has not been to my house for parties.

Anyway, on vaca a few things i noticed about my wife tends to lead me to think about the type of person she is. 
A guy around 28-30 years old was staying in a condo right next to us, he was well built and of course i am sure he got a lot of looks from younger woman.
Well, his balcony was about 20 feet from ours and i noticed my wife made several trips to our balcony when this guy was hanging out there. I looked over a few times from inside the condo and noticed her sitting there and peeking over a few times to try and get his attention.

He did see me and kids so he knows she was probably married, he never tried to get my wifes attention but i am sure he could see she was peeking over since it was obvious. I did surprise her once by going out on balcony and saying to her "what are you looking at". She was surprised i seen her and quickly made up some story.

Well, as we were packing up to leave and loading the car this guy was doing the same. I was up in condo and she at car putting stuff in our car and kept peeking over to see when this guy would be walking back to his condo. That is when she started walking back at same time. 
I noticed her looking at her outfit (tight shirt and short skirt) making sure it looked good and walking slowly by him all the time looking over at him. He of course made no move toward her and did not try and talk to her.

She of course did not see me watching her but it was pretty clear she was trying to get his attention. Maybe not in a way to talk to him but probably wanted him to notice her.

It really spoke volumes to me just seeing her do this.

Yeah, i peeked and a few pretty girls with nice bodies but never entered my mind to try and get their attention. 

So i am thinking my wife at age 37, pretty and nice body is at a point in her life where she likes attention and wants to be noticed not only by me but other guys. That can be a huge problem since if a guy ever did act on it she may not know what to make of it. 

Sex was good and often on vaca but during each time in bedroom she liked to keep blinds a bit open and kept looking over toward his balcony. hmmm, how can she possibly think i did not notice that.


----------



## warlock07

> Sex was good and often on vaca but during each time in bedroom she liked to keep blinds a bit open and kept looking over toward his balcony. hmmm, how can she possibly think i did not notice that.


huh? It is kinda f*cked up if it is true


----------



## Chaparral

Because she is so much smarter than you, rotflmao.


----------



## ShootMePlz!

Then you have to wonder who she was thinking about while having all that sex during the vacation!!! I would have called her on it.....it just shows that she is still wayward deep down in some respects.


----------



## happyman64

Damn Jerry!

That would drive me insane watching my wife carry on like that.

That woman has serious self esteem issues or her estrogen is out of whack!

Keep an eye out. What a shame you could not video tape her and play it back to her so she cannot deny what she saw.

Glad to see the POSON (n=neighbor) keeping his distance.

Stay sharp buddy. I hope the vacation was great anyway.....

Hm64


----------



## jerry123

I agree...i've only started to monitor since late April. So who knows what could have happened before that. And my biggest mistake was accusing in April without proof.

I still feel no matter how smart she thinks she is, if she is a WS i will find out sooner or later and i know that if she cheated in past i will never, and i mean never get a confession from her.

Still going to IC, but have stopped implementing a few suggestions from her.
The MC told me to be more open about what i am feeling and what i want with her. Tried that, backfired since she sits there and looks at me like chump.

Her being a high Alpha woman makes me stay high Alpha but as you can tell it does not mix.
She will never "talk" about her feelings because that would break this wall she has and leave her open to feel weak in a sense.


Read the respect thread on TAM, brings to mind how little she has for me. And that is her way of thinking by showing lack of respect keeps her power trip alive. 

MC says it will take time to get her off her high horse, she has had it good for a long time. Just not sure the fight is worth winning...


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Damn Jerry!
> 
> That would drive me insane watching my wife carry on like that.
> 
> That woman has serious self esteem issues or her estrogen is out of whack!
> 
> Keep an eye out. What a shame you could not video tape her and play it back to her so she cannot deny what she saw.
> 
> Glad to see the POSON (n=neighbor) keeping his distance.
> 
> Stay sharp buddy. I hope the vacation was great anyway.....
> 
> Hm64



Yeah, she is a piece of work. I've done some research on women in their mid late 30's. Also, figured out the narcissistic tendencies in her make for a tough marriage.


----------



## happyman64

Funny Jerry.

She really has shown very little respect for you.

And it definitely is a power trip for her.

But I don't agree with one thing you said.

You might get a confession and it would be if you D your wife. Because someone with an ego that big might just admit that they lost just once.

I bet this really makes you re-think your marriage.

Stay strong and be wary. And at the same time go find a job and let her worry about the kids for a change.

Amazing how money and power change people, even in marriage.

HM64

PS

You are not alone Jerry. The only difference is this guy has the evidence.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52399-trapped-marriage-cheater-no-way-out.html


----------



## Thor

jerry123 said:


> And my biggest mistake was accusing in April without proof.
> 
> I still feel no matter how smart she thinks she is, if she is a WS i will find out sooner or later and i know that if she cheated in past i will never, and i mean never get a confession from her.


You're not the first to confront too soon!

You may or may not ever find out if she cheated. Even if you find something suspicious there is always a potential legitimate explanation, other than say stumbling across a porn video of her and posom. But finding a condom wrapper in the car or other seemingly good evidence can always have a slight chance of not being conclusive.

You are right, though, that you will never ever get a voluntary confession out of her.


----------



## OldWolf57

Jerry, not to worry you, but with the new promo, will she be interviewing more young guys at night now ?? After seeing how she acts around buff young guys, even with you there in the condo, your wait time may be getting closer. So keep that VAR an GPS going on those nights.


----------



## bandit.45

Have you started schooling in that medical field you were talking about?


----------



## Chaparral

Are you still using a VAR? GPS?


----------



## Gabriel

From this latest episode, it's pretty clear your wife is just flat out bored, and needs the excitement of male attention. 

It also sounds like you didn't say anything to her when you noticed this. I think this was a bad move. If you want her to respect you as an alpha, you should have nipped that in the bud immediately instead of passively spying on her actions. 

During sex, regarding the balcony, you should have manned up and just told her, "WTF are you doing watching that other guy! Show me some respect!" She's already exhibited borderline behavior in this regard. Call her on it right away - show her you aren't going to put up with it.

Is it possible that deep down, she has major closeted self esteem issues? That she needs constant attention to feel worthy? Think hard about that before you spit out the answer about how much money she makes in her "power job". That has nothing to do with it.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Are you still using a VAR? GPS?


Yes, we just got back from vaca so i will have to see if anything comes up soon.

Nothing much before vaca...she is only in her car for a 10 minute ride to bus then 10 minute ride home.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> From this latest episode, it's pretty clear your wife is just flat out bored, and needs the excitement of male attention.
> 
> It also sounds like you didn't say anything to her when you noticed this. I think this was a bad move. If you want her to respect you as an alpha, you should have nipped that in the bud immediately instead of passively spying on her actions.
> 
> During sex, regarding the balcony, you should have manned up and just told her, "WTF are you doing watching that other guy! Show me some respect!" She's already exhibited borderline behavior in this regard. Call her on it right away - show her you aren't going to put up with it.
> 
> Is it possible that deep down, she has major closeted self esteem issues? That she needs constant attention to feel worthy? Think hard about that before you spit out the answer about how much money she makes in her "power job". That has nothing to do with it.


I hear ya...i did say something when i caught her on balcony looking over there. She fumbled her words then made up a story.

As for self esteem issues, it is very possible she has them. She has told me in the past she is a high maintenance person. Not my thing to be catering to a wife who says that. I have 2 kids who want my attention all the time.

In IC, the woman told me to tell her about my wife's childhood and a lot of answers came out when the counc. said it is probably from her upbringing. A mother that showed little or no love and affection could have made my wife into the person she is.

My Alpha has kicked up a lot in the last 4 months, but i think it gets shot down when i try and open up to her about my feelings. 

So all in all i have a high Alpha wife with possible self esteem issues who needs constant attention. Is a bit narcissistic, and craves power in the marriage...i have a ton of work to do to fix this, but the question will always be, is it worth a fix.


----------



## Almostrecovered

jerry123 said:


> i have a ton of work to do to fix this, but the question will always be, is it worth a fix.



even without infidelity she has to work to fix this as well, you can't fix it by yourself


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> even without infidelity she has to work to fix this as well, you can't fix it by yourself


I totally agree, the thing i am learning is she will need to recognize the problems and want to have to change. And the high horse she has been on for so long is not easy to get off to an even level.

I know i can't make her change, but i can do everything in my power to change me and not put up with the Bull ****e. 

Boundaries need to be made, and i need respect from her to have any chance for this to work. But something tells me the respect is long gone and i wonder if it can ever return...


----------



## Almostrecovered

tough spot jerry, I wish you the best


----------



## Sbrown

jerry123 said:


> I hear ya...i did say something when i caught her on balcony looking over there. She fumbled her words then made up a story.
> 
> As for self esteem issues, it is very possible she has them. She has told me in the past she is a high maintenance person. Not my thing to be catering to a wife who says that. I have 2 kids who want my attention all the time.
> 
> In IC, the woman told me to tell her about my wife's childhood and a lot of answers came out when the counc. said it is probably from her upbringing. A mother that showed little or no love and affection could have made my wife into the person she is.
> 
> *My Alpha has kicked up a lot in the last 4 months, but i think it gets shot down when i try and open up to her about my feelings. *
> Talk about your feelings? DUDE! I don't think alphas talk about their feelings. If something is wrong or someone disrespects them, they point it out and demand it doesn't happen again.
> So all in all i have a high Alpha wife with possible self esteem issues who needs constant attention. Is a bit narcissistic, and craves power in the marriage...*i have a ton of work to do to fix this, but the question will always be, is it worth a fix.* Seriously?


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> I totally agree, the thing i am learning is she will need to recognize the problems and want to have to change. And the high horse she has been on for so long is not easy to get off to an even level.
> 
> I know i can't make her change, but i can do everything in my power to change me and not put up with the Bull ****e.
> 
> Boundaries need to be made, and i need respect from her to have any chance for this to work. But something tells me the respect is long gone and i wonder if it can ever return...


You may be right. And it is better to be prepared if this happens by having a job out of the house.

It also puts some of the child rearing responsibility back on your wifes shoulders where it belongs.


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> You may be right. And it is better to be prepared if this happens by having a job out of the house.
> 
> It also puts some of the child rearing responsibility back on your wifes shoulders where it belongs.


So true, i think her lack of child rearing comes from her upbringing.

Both kids will be in school full time in sept, i am looking at going back part time or even full time if the job hours are manageable. 

Also looking at online degrees...


----------



## Shaggy

Jerry, it might be time to pull the resume together to be ready to apply. Better to get start than put if off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> Jerry, it might be time to pull the resume together to be ready to apply. Better to get start than put if off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, doing that this week...

Also, had a talk with wife a few weeks back. When telling her about me going back to work she made a comment "That's fine, but you will never be able to make as much as me"

My reply was, that's because i gave up my career to stay home with kids so she could further hers...her answer was "That is so selfish to say"

:scratchhead:


----------



## Complexity

Wow


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Yes, doing that this week...
> 
> Also, had a talk with wife a few weeks back. When telling her about me going back to work she made a comment "That's fine, but you will never be able to make as much as me"
> 
> My reply was, that's because i gave up my career to stay home with kids so she could further hers...her answer was "That is so selfish to say"
> 
> :scratchhead:


I'm sure this has been discussed in your thread before months ago, but how does she line up when you look at NPD traits? Just curious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Have you discussed who'll handle what chores when you go back to work? When you do, don't ask her; tell her.


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> I'm sure this has been discussed in your thread before months ago, but how does she line up when you look at NPD traits? Just curious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Out of the 10 or so NPD traits, I would say 90% of them. 

I actually told her about a month ago she has Narsassitic traits. She was shocked I said that...she does not think so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

turnera said:


> Have you discussed who'll handle what chores when you go back to work? When you do, don't ask her; tell her.


Oh yes, she thinks I will be doing the same chores and working. Told her I don't think so...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Seawolf

Gabriel said:


> From this latest episode, it's pretty clear your wife is just flat out bored, and needs the excitement of male attention.
> 
> It also sounds like you didn't say anything to her when you noticed this. I think this was a bad move. If you want her to respect you as an alpha, you should have nipped that in the bud immediately instead of passively spying on her actions.
> 
> During sex, regarding the balcony, you should have manned up and just told her, "WTF are you doing watching that other guy! Show me some respect!" She's already exhibited borderline behavior in this regard. Call her on it right away - show her you aren't going to put up with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it possible that deep down, she has major closeted self esteem issues? That she needs constant attention to feel worthy? Think hard about that before you spit out the answer about how much money she makes in her "power job". That has nothing to do with it.


_Posted via Mobile Device_

Right idea but wrong implementation as this is still beta behavior. A true alpha would have called her on the cracked blinds and instead of asking for respect, opened them further and said, "let's let him see how well I take care of you!". I guarantee she would have found this exciting and developed deeper respect for Jerry. An alpha knows not to ask, and when his female wants to play, the alpha always ups the ante.


----------



## Gabriel

Seawolf said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Right idea but wrong implementation as this is still beta behavior. A true alpha would have called her on the cracked blinds and instead of asking for respect, opened them further and said, "let's let him see how well I take care of you!". I guarantee she would have found this exciting and developed deeper respect for Jerry. An alpha knows not to ask, and when his female wants to play, the alpha always ups the ante.


Well played.


----------



## Seawolf

Thank you sir
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> I hear ya...i did say something when i caught her on balcony looking over there. She fumbled her words then made up a story.
> 
> As for self esteem issues, it is very possible she has them. She has told me in the past she is a high maintenance person. Not my thing to be catering to a wife who says that. I have 2 kids who want my attention all the time.
> 
> In IC, the woman told me to tell her about my wife's childhood and a lot of answers came out when the counc. said it is probably from her upbringing. A mother that showed little or no love and affection could have made my wife into the person she is.
> 
> My Alpha has kicked up a lot in the last 4 months, but i think it gets shot down when i try and open up to her about my feelings.
> 
> So all in all i have a high Alpha wife with possible self esteem issues who needs constant attention. Is a bit narcissistic, and craves power in the marriage...i have a ton of work to do to fix this, but the question will always be, is it worth a fix.


Your kids/family are worth the fix if possible. 

Was she texting during vaca? Do you ever borrow her phone/checking it?

I still think you should check out the pen VAR to see if it is plausible. Maybe email them. I think it works as a real pen.


----------



## Chaparral

Seawolf said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Right idea but wrong implementation as this is still beta behavior. A true alpha would have called her on the cracked blinds and instead of asking for respect, opened them further and said, "let's let him see how well I take care of you!". I guarantee she would have found this exciting and developed deeper respect for Jerry. An alpha knows not to ask, and when his female wants to play, the alpha always ups the ante.


Yes I think you need to invest more time studying alpha behavior. At this point, you should not mention anything relating to your feelings. I think you have good intentions but you backslide.

Use the Socratic method. As in, "you get off on looking at young guys?" Just look at her with a cold stare whatever she answers like you do not believe she did that. No discussion, show her your back. Then later when you have the chance, look at a woman and say " Nice a$$." Show her what disrespect is and do not back down.

If she gives you any sh!t, give her a dead stare with a smile and tell her, " You're gonna miss me when I'm gone." There is a country song I used to put on with that line for my wife when she tried to act ugly. :rofl:

Anyone remember the site where beta guys are working on being alpha?

Very little is gonna change till you get a job and reclaim your independence however.


----------



## Alyosha

LOL.

Yeah. Everyone's an "alpha"......except that ......they're not. 99% of these 'Married Man Sex Life' 'alphas' are just normal, chump betas affecting behaviors some other beta chump directed them to affect. Ahahahahahaaha.

Granted, this might work to fool some women but really.... what the holy hell is the point of having to act like something you are not just to con a woman into wanting to stay with you?

It's insanity.

Be yourself. Live your own truth. If your wife finds that boring....well... find someone who doesn't. Someone you can live a GENUINE life with rather than spend the rest of your days as a constantly insecure play actor.

Real men are comfortable in their own skin.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Your kids/family are worth the fix if possible.
> 
> Was she texting during vaca? Do you ever borrow her phone/checking it?
> 
> I still think you should check out the pen VAR to see if it is plausible. Maybe email them. I think it works as a real pen.


She was doing things on her phone everyday during vaca. But before we left she told me she would need to check emails so she would not be backed up when she for back. I still check her phone once in a while. I don't have a lot of time to look for emails/texts but she could easily delete them if she wanted to. 

To be totally honest, with the few things I got from VAR like when I went to IC by myself and heard her repeat the text/email and the "whoa" repeats (which makes me think of sexting after the comment she repeated) the total lack of respect she gives me are red flags slapping me in the face. Her actions on vaca with her keep peeking at this guy and purposely walking by him slowly and looking over at him makes me realize the kind of person I am married to. 

A spouse who respects the other does not do these things...

Yeah, I messed up by revealing my suspicions of the neighbor with no proof. So if anything has or is happening with him or anyone else she has learned to bury it so deep Underground that it has made it almost impossible to find out. Alas she knows nothing about VAR/GPS so those are my saving grace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Alyosha said:


> LOL.
> 
> Yeah. Everyone's an "alpha"......except that ......they're not. 99% of these 'Married Man Sex Life' 'alphas' are just normal, chump betas affecting behaviors some other beta chump directed them to affect. Ahahahahahaaha.
> 
> Granted, this might work to fool some women but really.... what the holy hell is the point of having to act like something you are not just to con a woman into wanting to stay with you?
> 
> It's insanity.
> 
> Be yourself. Live your own truth. If your wife finds that boring....well... find someone who doesn't. Someone you can live a GENUINE life with rather than spend the rest of your days as a constantly insecure play actor.
> 
> Real men are comfortable in their own skin.



Ha,ha...love that post. Thing is, I was not this Beta all my life. There lies the fact that being a SAHD changed me. I even told IC this and she totally agreed with me. My wife used to brag how my role was much tougher than hers. Still she showed me little to no respect. 

Funny thing is, the times I am Alpha and stand up to her she does back down. Then I go back and just be myself she sees this and finds the chance to disrespect and thR cycle starts again. 

Hey, I'm a great dad, a faithful husband who is here for his family and to my wife i am probably a boring husband. Would she rather I go out to bars with friends and stay out till 2am. Not help around the house. Not pay attention to kids. 
If that were me i would still be a horrible husband. Just can't win!!!

And yes, I've been told by friends that there are women who would appreciate a person like me. So one of my decisions will have to be if I want this life with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vi_bride04

Alyosha said:


> LOL.
> 
> Yeah. Everyone's an "alpha"......except that ......they're not. 99% of these 'Married Man Sex Life' 'alphas' are just normal, chump betas affecting behaviors some other beta chump directed them to affect. Ahahahahahaaha.
> 
> Granted, this might work to fool some women but really.... what the holy hell is the point of having to act like something you are not just to con a woman into wanting to stay with you?
> 
> It's insanity.
> 
> Be yourself. Live your own truth. If your wife finds that boring....well... find someone who doesn't. Someone you can live a GENUINE life with rather than spend the rest of your days as a constantly insecure play actor.
> 
> Real men are comfortable in their own skin.


Great post!!!


----------



## turnera

It's great...except for not acknowledging the changes that occur in people after being married. Every interaction results in a little bit of 'adjustment' of your self worth and your attitude, based on who you're facing. Someone who was carefree and fun-loving 20 years ago might now be more sensitive, or timid about upsetting the other person, etc.

The trick is in figuring out who the 'real' you is.


----------



## Chaparral

vi_bride04 said:


> Great post!!!


He didn't used to be boring. He's trying to get his mojo back.

Hell, anyone can rest on their past laurels, who wants that?


----------



## bandit.45

There isn't a man on this earth who can satisfy Jerry's wife fully. This is because at her core she is as mysandrous and male-hating as they come. Men are objects to her... they are there soley for her pleasure and to bolster her self esteem.

Jerry is the closest thing to a perfect husband she could ever have. She knows this, and that's why she does juuuuust enough to keep him satisfied and quiet... and nothing more. 

She gives him nothing but what she thinks he absolutely needs in order to stay and raise her children and keep house for her. 

This is not love.


----------



## Albert_32

:iagree:

what he said.


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> There isn't a man on this earth who can satisfy Jerry's wife fully. This is because at her core she is as mysandrous and male-hating as they come. Men are objects to her... they are there soley for her pleasure and to bolster her self esteem.
> 
> Jerry is the closest thing to a perfect husband she could ever have. She knows this, and that's why she does juuuuust enough to keep him satisfied and quiet... and nothing more.
> 
> She gives him nothing but what she thinks he absolutely needs in order to stay and raise her children and keep house for her.
> 
> This is not love.


OMG, this post is what i really needed to read. I've thought about the exact same thing for a long time but probably could not face the truth that my wife of 14 years could actually turn out like that.


----------



## TDSC60

jerry123 said:


> Yes, doing that this week...
> 
> Also, had a talk with wife a few weeks back. When telling her about me going back to work she made a comment "That's fine, but you will never be able to make as much as me"
> 
> My reply was, that's because i gave up my career to stay home with kids so she could further hers...her answer was "That is so selfish to say"
> 
> :scratchhead:


She is rubbing your face in the fact that she makes all the money and at the same time is dismissing all that you gave up and did to allow her to advance in her career. Man, that is a cold hearted woman. No respect for you at all. No wonder she needs attention from other men. In her eyes, attention from you is worthless. You are her house keeper, baby sitter, gardener, and handyman. You are "paid" by HER providing all the money. Your contribution is meaningless to her.

Edit: OK - Bandit said it better (although I had to look up "mysandrous")


----------



## bandit.45

TDSC60 said:


> She is rubbing your face in the fact that she makes all the money and at the same time is dismissing all that you gave up and did to allow her to advance in her career. Man, that is a cold hearted woman. No respect for you at all. No wonder she needs attention from other men. In her eyes, attention from you is worthless. You are her house keeper, baby sitter, gardener, and handyman. You are "paid" by HER providing all the money. Your contribution is meaningless to her.


Spot on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gpa

Yes. Bandit is back with takeoff power. He nailed a lot today.


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> Yes, doing that this week...
> 
> Also, had a talk with wife a few weeks back. When telling her about me going back to work she made a comment "That's fine, but you will never be able to make as much as me"
> 
> My reply was, that's because i gave up my career to stay home with kids so she could further hers...her answer was "That is so selfish to say"
> 
> :scratchhead:


That is F'D up of her to say to you.

Narcissist all the way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Look at it this way: If you divorce her, she will have to pay YOU child support.


----------



## Complexity

I still can't get my head around why she sulked after your first accusation. It would be a miracle for a person with her traits not to have cheated.


----------



## Gabriel

bandit.45 said:


> There isn't a man on this earth who can satisfy Jerry's wife fully. This is because at her core she is as mysandrous and male-hating as they come. Men are objects to her... they are there soley for her pleasure and to bolster her self esteem.
> 
> Jerry is the closest thing to a perfect husband she could ever have. She knows this, and that's why she does juuuuust enough to keep him satisfied and quiet... and nothing more.
> 
> She gives him nothing but what she thinks he absolutely needs in order to stay and raise her children and keep house for her.
> 
> This is not love.


Damn, that is some good stuff.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> OMG, this post is what i really needed to read. I've thought about the exact same thing for a long time but probably could not face the truth that my wife of 14 years could actually turn out like that.


If you believe this, you should makit as a list, set her down, and discuss the list. Doesn't really matter what she says but how she says it and how she reacts that will tell you what the truth is.

But until you get out of the house and working you are not going to have the self respect or her respect that you need.

I feel you are avoiding the key to all this.


----------



## Gabriel

I thought a lot about this last night.

See, Jerry, you are in a different situation than most on TAM. You aren't in a position where you need to take action to save your marriage. With no action, your marriage will undoubtedly carry on just as it has with no threats to its demise.

Rather than save your marriage, your goal is save yourself from a future of a loveless relationship with your partner. And you have made some nice steps in this direction.

Thing is, in order to save your relationship from being loveless, the actions you need to take are very drastic, because of who your wife is. These actions will not be comfortable for you. And there really is no promise of reward from your W. She might just not have much of a heart to love with.

At this point Jerry needs to think about Jerry. Jerry needs to get himself a job, lift weights, and act like he doesn't give a flying f*ck about what his wife thinks.

I honestly think that's the only way any permanent change can take place. Maybe if your W thinks she has to chase you, she actually will.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> I thought a lot about this last night.
> 
> See, Jerry, you are in a different situation than most on TAM. You aren't in a position where you need to take action to save your marriage. With no action, your marriage will undoubtedly carry on just as it has with no threats to its demise.
> 
> Rather than save your marriage, your goal is save yourself from a future of a loveless relationship with your partner. And you have made some nice steps in this direction.
> 
> Thing is, in order to save your relationship from being loveless, the actions you need to take are very drastic, because of who your wife is. These actions will not be comfortable for you. And there really is no promise of reward from your W. She might just not have much of a heart to love with.
> 
> At this point Jerry needs to think about Jerry. Jerry needs to get himself a job, lift weights, and act like he doesn't give a flying f*ck about what his wife thinks.
> 
> I honestly think that's the only way any permanent change can take place. Maybe if your W thinks she has to chase you, she actually will.



I appreciate you taking the time to write in my thread and also with not even knowing me you are thinking about my situation and giving great advice. 
In fact all the advice I have gotten from people her has been helpful. 

I have spent way too much time thinking of ways to change her. I now realize there is no way for me personally to do that. She has got to want to change. When I first started talking to her back in April about my accusations and how things with her and I are not how I want our marriage to be she sat there and said in her eyes things are great. 

Yeah, in her eyes they were but as I talked about the way she treats me she did not flinch. Did not give a crap about how I felt. 

I was doing good with the Alpha back then, seen some improvement but it was only a sh&t test. Like the post yesterday, I truly believe she is doing just enough for me to hang on. She is very scared I will leave her and take the kids. She did not tell me that but I know it. 

I am making myself a better person for me, keeping a fit 180lbs, lift weights every day. Gotten tons of compliments from friends and family. 

MC told me to open up to her and talk about my feelings and what I want from her. At the time I thought it can't hurt but I've done that 3-4 times and it's backfired on me. She sits there just looking at me like I'm a chump for doing that. I actually wish my IC was not a woman, but I've gotten some good insight how women think. 

So I will need a new approach, and I've sort of done that in the last few days. She was so used to me talking about things and now I've just stopped pouring myself out to her. 

And yes, I have been on job posting sites for the last few days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60

Being open and honest with her only got you contempt from her - no real indication that she even cares about how you feel. Definitely time to change tactics.

Focus on you and your children. Do not acknowledge her. Let her go her own way and you go yours. Take the kids to the park or movies and be gone from the house when she gets home. Make her track you down. Make her put some effort into chasing you for a change.

You may find out that you and the kids are just fine or maybe better without her.


----------



## Gabriel

TDSC60 said:


> Being open and honest with her only got you contempt from her - no real indication that she even cares about how you feel. Definitely time to change tactics.
> 
> Focus on you and your children. Do not acknowledge her. Let her go her own way and you go yours. Take the kids to the park or movies and be gone from the house when she gets home. Make her track you down. Make her put some effort into chasing you for a change.
> 
> You may find out that you and the kids are just fine or maybe better without her.


This.

The contempt is coming because she doesn't like being told she's wrong or behaving in a way Jerry doesn't like. She's one of those people who is always right. Any argument to the contrary will just piss her off.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> This.
> 
> The contempt is coming because she doesn't like being told she's wrong or behaving in a way Jerry doesn't like. She's one of those people who is always right. Any argument to the contrary will just piss her off.


Yeah...i googled NPD and got to a forum on it.

I have always thought she was a bit narcissistic but after reading stories about women and men going through this it hit me like a ton of bricks.

Sad thing is, if she is full blown NPD it is almost impossible for them to change. No matter what i can do it will be for nothing if that is what i am dealing with.

Only thing that differs is she is not physically abusive. Probably more men than women are. And NPD tends to be seen in men much more than women...


----------



## Acabado

NPD lash out badly when they have their self image treatened.


----------



## bandit.45

Jerry...being macho stud Alpha male will only make YOU feel better about yourself. 

If she is NPD, it wont make a dent in her. House-husband stuff aside, you could be built like the Rock, have a face like Brad Pitt, have the agression of an MMA fighter, and make more money than Steve Jobs, and she would still find ways to disrespect you and power trip. 

I like the idea of you concentrating on yourself and your kids and taking the focus away from her. You have done what you could to improve the marriage and she is not budging, if anything she is dug into her own groove and is not deviating off her track.


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Jerry...being macho stud Alpha male will only make YOU feel better about yourself.
> 
> If she is NPD, it wont make a dent in her. House-husband stuff aside, you could be built like the Rock, have a face like Brad Pitt, have the agression of an MMA fighter, and make more money than Steve Jobs, and she would still find ways to disrespect you and power trip.
> 
> I like the idea of you concentrating on yourself and your kids and taking the focus away from her. You have done what you could to improve the marriage and she is not budging, if anything she is dug into her own groove and is not deviating off her track.


I will, actually that is the one thing in the past 4 months that has made me feel good.

And you are correct, i lost 24 pounds and lifted weights in the last 6 months and i had to tell her and show her my results because she never seen it. 
When her family started telling me how good i looked her answer was "I see him every day so i really did not notice"


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> I will, actually that is the one thing in the past 4 months that has made me feel good.
> 
> And you are correct, i lost 24 pounds and lifted weights in the last 6 months and i had to tell her and show her my results because she never seen it.
> When her family started telling me how good i looked her answer was "I see him every day so i really did not notice"


Jesus. Going from 204 to 180 and packing on muscle and she didn't notice? I call BS. This is her again not willing to:

1) realize she was wrong for not saying something/noticing, and
2) give you any credit for anything


----------



## Thor

jerry123 said:


> Yeah...i googled NPD and got to a forum on it.
> 
> I have always thought she was a bit narcissistic but after reading stories about women and men going through this it hit me like a ton of bricks.
> 
> Sad thing is, if she is full blown NPD it is almost impossible for them to change. No matter what i can do it will be for nothing if that is what i am dealing with.
> 
> Only thing that differs is she is not physically abusive. Probably more men than women are. And NPD tends to be seen in men much more than women...


Women who were sexually abused as children or suffered sexual assault can become NPD or BPD. But I think that also a lot of them show _similar_ behaviors without actually being NPD or BPD. The self-protective psychological mechanisms can manifest in a way that seems NPD-ish or BPD-ish but the underlying cause is different. 

Still, you are left dealing with a particular behavior no matter what the root cause.


----------



## jerry123

Thor said:


> Women who were sexually abused as children or suffered sexual assault can become NPD or BPD. But I think that also a lot of them show _similar_ behaviors without actually being NPD or BPD. The self-protective psychological mechanisms can manifest in a way that seems NPD-ish or BPD-ish but the underlying cause is different.
> 
> Still, you are left dealing with a particular behavior no matter what the root cause.


That really makes me think...I have suspected something may have happened to her when she was young. Never asked her about it though. How could one ever start a conversation about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> Jesus. Going from 204 to 180 and packing on muscle and she didn't notice? I call BS. This is her again not willing to:
> 
> 1) realize she was wrong for not saying something/noticing, and
> 2) give you any credit for anything


Word, she's not blind, scared maybe, she noticed everything.


----------



## Chaparral

She doesn't act like any of the BPD people I've read about here.

Worry about you and avoid express your feelings more than an I love you or whatever. If she brings it up, turn it around and ask her how she feels. 

Did she go to any more MC sessions?


----------



## Thor

jerry123 said:


> That really makes me think...I have suspected something may have happened to her when she was young. Never asked her about it though. How could one ever start a conversation about that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:slap::banghead:

The number of times the specter of sex abuse or assault comes up astounds and saddens me. I have suspected it from what you wrote but honestly I could not remember if we had covered it somewhere in the 78 pages of this thread.

It isn't something easy to bring up, and I think there needs to be a specific reason to do so. If she was abused/assaulted, and she hasn't said anything to you before, and if she has not dealt with it through good therapy, it is likely a _big deal_ psychologically. It is not like asking her something a bit embarrassing or like catching her in a lie. This is a deep fear and a deeply suppressed topic for her.

Furthermore, suggesting she has psychological issues as a result of the abuse is going to be extremely threatening to her. Her deepest issue is going to be shame, and her deepest fear is that the shame is justified. CSA/assault survivors seem to have difficulty separating what was done to them vs the side effects caused by it. So the admission on any level that she has a pysch side effect can be taken by her as confirmation of the validity of her shame.

From what you've written about her, I would not ask her at this time.


----------



## Sbrown

jerry123 said:


> How could one ever start a conversation about that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You don't! FOCUS ON YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN!


----------



## jerry123

Thor said:


> :slap::banghead:
> 
> The number of times the specter of sex abuse or assault comes up astounds and saddens me. I have suspected it from what you wrote but honestly I could not remember if we had covered it somewhere in the 78 pages of this thread.
> 
> It isn't something easy to bring up, and I think there needs to be a specific reason to do so. If she was abused/assaulted, and she hasn't said anything to you before, and if she has not dealt with it through good therapy, it is likely a _big deal_ psychologically. It is not like asking her something a bit embarrassing or like catching her in a lie. This is a deep fear and a deeply suppressed topic for her.
> 
> Furthermore, suggesting she has psychological issues as a result of the abuse is going to be extremely threatening to her. Her deepest issue is going to be shame, and her deepest fear is that the shame is justified. CSA/assault survivors seem to have difficulty separating what was done to them vs the side effects caused by it. So the admission on any level that she has a pysch side effect can be taken by her as confirmation of the validity of her shame.
> 
> From what you've written about her, I would not ask her at this time.



I don't plan on ever bringing that subject up...

MC did tell me she thinks a lot of my wife's issues stem from childhood and as for not being the motherly type comes directly from her mother and how she was brought up. Not being shown love from the mother just translated into not bring able to show it to our kids. Though I believe she loves our kids deep down, she just can't show it with attention. 

One thing I do know, she has a younger sister and her dad favored my wife most of all through childhood. 

Another thing I just remembered is my wife told me 1-2 years into dating that her first sexual experience was not good. A guy took advantage of her at 15 years old. The guy was 17 or 18, she did not call it rape but I don't think she wanted to go all the way with him. I believe she just thought it was going to be kissing. But at that young age girls are all to easily manipulated and are probably to scared to stop when things are going too far.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> I don't plan on ever bringing that subject up...
> 
> MC did tell me she thinks a lot of my wife's issues stem from childhood and as for not being the motherly type comes directly from her mother and how she was brought up. Not being shown love from the mother just translated into not bring able to show it to our kids. Though I believe she loves our kids deep down, she just can't show it with attention.
> 
> One thing I do know, she has a younger sister and her dad favored my wife most of all through childhood.
> 
> Another thing I just remembered is my wife told me 1-2 years into dating that her first sexual experience was not good. A guy took advantage of her at 15 years old. The guy was 17 or 18, she did not call it rape but I don't think she wanted to go all the way with him. I believe she just thought it was going to be kissing. But at that young age girls are all to easily manipulated and are probably to scared to stop when things are going too far.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This first sexual experience may very well be the smoking gun to her behavior. Doesn't sound like it's the parents. My W was the un-favored sibling in her family and it totally screwed her up, to the point I have a real beef with her parents. Being the favored sibling doesn't result in an unloving person.

Have you ever had the talk with her about each of your past sexual experiences and relationships, and gotten real deep with how they affected you both? Some of my W and I best discussions have been sharing our learning experiences from former girlfriends/boyfriends.

My guess is that first time has affected her way more than you think, and way more than she'll ever admit. It's probably why she feels she needs to have power over men.


----------



## TDSC60

jerry123 said:


> That really makes me think...I have suspected something may have happened to her when she was young. Never asked her about it though. How could one ever start a conversation about that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now is not the time for you to try to ask about that.

If it is indeed the case, it will take a professional to help her sort it out. It has to be her choice and at the moment it is all about her power trip.


----------



## jerry123

TDSC60 said:


> Now is not the time for you to try to ask about that.
> 
> If it is indeed the case, it will take a professional to help her sort it out. It has to be her choice and at the moment it is all about her power trip.



Oh I agree, won't go there. She won't ever seek help. 

She even makes fun of my going to IC. Asks me once in a while "so when is the next time you are going to see your shrink"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sbrown

jerry123 said:


> Oh I agree, won't go there. She won't ever seek help.
> 
> She even makes fun of my going to IC. Asks me once in a while "so when is the next time you are going to see your shrink"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope your response was a smug grin....


----------



## jerry123

Sbrown said:


> I hope your response was a smug grin....



Yes, it was. 

That's how she looks at me going there, as a joke.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> Yes, it was.
> 
> That's how she looks at me going there, as a joke.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can I ask you something Jerry? Do you even want to be married to this woman? Put the kids aside for a minute and focus just on your wife. 

If if so, why?


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Can I ask you something Jerry? Do you even want to be married to this woman? Put the kids aside for a minute and focus just on your wife.
> 
> If if so, why?


Honestly?? Nope....

Who would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

jerry123 said:


> Honestly?? Nope....
> 
> Who would.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Well then, are you preparing yourself financially for a separate life?


----------



## Gabriel

aug said:


> Well then, are you preparing yourself financially for a separate life?


Right, I think we have been assuming that the ultimate goal here is for Jerry to work on himself, and hopefully his wife will notice and show him more love, etc.

But Jerry, it doesn't look like that's going to happen, and it sounds like neither of you are ringing each other's bell. I mean sexually it seems things have improved, but there isn't really any love going on.

So if she is who she is and isn't noticing Jerry's new changes, what's really here to salvage? His wife makes a ton of money, so it's not like Jerry is going to suffer financially if they split. He could get a job, have primary custody, and get child support from his would-be ex wife. 

Do you know how marketable single dads are? It would be a feeding frenzy for Jerry. He could actually fall in love with someone, and have her love him back. The kids would still see their mom every other weekend. She could go about commanding attention from men all she wants without Jerry's questions.


----------



## Complexity

Gabriel said:


> Right, I think we have been assuming that the ultimate goal here is for Jerry to work on himself, and hopefully his wife will notice and show him more love, etc.
> 
> But Jerry, it doesn't look like that's going to happen, and it sounds like neither of you are ringing each other's bell. I mean sexually it seems things have improved, but there isn't really any love going on.
> 
> So if she is who she is and isn't noticing Jerry's new changes, what's really here to salvage? His wife makes a ton of money, so it's not like Jerry is going to suffer financially if they split. He could get a job, have primary custody, and get child support from his would-be ex wife.
> 
> Do you know how marketable single dads are? It would be a feeding frenzy for Jerry. He could actually fall in love with someone, and have her love him back. The kids would still see their mom every other weekend. She could go about commanding attention from men all she wants without Jerry's questions.


I don't think she'll challenge the custody issue. She knows Jerry would look after the kids better than she could.

Gabriel raises an important issue as well. It's all well and good that Jerry is making changes, but his wife has to reciprocate some changes as well. Most of the changes have been to reclaim your respect from her but you can't live on your toes for the rest of your life. 

She evidently has issues with asserting power over the people in her life and as soon as Jerry goes a little beta (I hate these terms), you'll be back to square zero. You essentially can't let your guard down with your wife, that's horrible way to live in all honesty.


----------



## jerry123

Complexity said:


> I don't think she'll challenge the custody issue. She knows Jerry would look after the kids better than she could.
> 
> Gabriel raises an important issue as well. It's all well and good that Jerry is making changes, but his wife has to reciprocate some changes as well. Most of the changes have been to reclaim your respect from her but you can't live on your toes for the rest of your life.
> 
> She evidently has issues with asserting power over the people in her life and as soon as Jerry goes a little beta (I hate these terms), you'll be back to square zero. You essentially can't let your guard down with your wife, that's horrible way to live in all honesty.



Well said, and explains my situation exactly. 

Went to IC today, she asked me that maybe in a way my wife does not want to be married to me. I found that interesting. Could be its her way of telling me without actually telling me. 

I have started to put in place an exit strategy. Just in case...I'll have time with no kids in a week to visit a lawyer and see what my rights are. I'm no doubt in titled to half her 401k, savings, house and alimony plus child support. She knows this, and would just kill her to give that up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> Oh I agree, won't go there. She won't ever seek help.
> 
> She even makes fun of my going to IC. Asks me once in a while "so when is the next time you are going to see your shrink"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You should have answered her " I will keep going until I am strong enough to dump your selfish ass and find a woman with feelings!".

Just a thought anyway.

Keep working out no matter what. And you know what, when your kids are older and they all turn to you for the answers your wife is gonna feel that and see it too!


----------



## Gabriel

happyman64 said:


> You should have answered her " I will keep going until I am strong enough to dump your selfish ass and find a woman with feelings!".


Wouldn't it be great if he really said this?

Way in the beginning I thought Jerry's wife was just enigmatic, a lock where the right key would open all the necessary doors. But now I think this woman is all about herself, and Jerry is just a convenience.


----------



## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> Well said, and explains my situation exactly.
> 
> Went to IC today, she asked me that maybe in a way my wife does not want to be married to me. I found that interesting. Could be its her way of telling me without actually telling me.
> 
> I have started to put in place an exit strategy. Just in case...I'll have time with no kids in a week to visit a lawyer and see what my rights are. I'm no doubt in titled to half her 401k, savings, house and alimony plus child support. She knows this, and would just kill her to give that up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Smart thinking Jerry. 

And you know, sooner or later you will see something or hear something that will set you off. And you are gonna be wondering if you might be better off without her as your wife.

Sad but true. And that is when you sit her down and have a real conversation about your future together.


----------



## jerry123

Hi friends...

Well, I've stepped up the Alpha in the last week. That is one thing she resonds to so I may have to learn to do that every day. Seems pretty easy since I am looking good and kept off weight. 

Also, I am signing up for classes to get my real estate license. It seems my best course of action since I can make my own hours and a friend who owns an agency will sponser me and let me be his agent with a 60% take for me on any commission. 

Told my wife this and she was trying in a subltle way to reconsider. LOL, that shows me that she will lose part control over me. 

Showing her my confidence is in full swing. I talk about these real estate classes almost every day. 

Side note, (i don't mean to get gross) had sex Monday night. She got up Tuesday morning with no shower. Came home Tuesday night and put her clothes on floor. I don't check her underwear at all but noticed a stain on panties because they were right there in middle of floor. I could assume the stain was from me since there was no shower in morning. 

Sad to say but at this point I may have to check them when we don't have sex. 

Been reading up on tons of narssasistic behavior disorder and I feel she is prime canadate for it. I can be Alpha, look like mr. America and it won't change a thing in her eyes. But I won't let up because I am seeing it keeps her in check when I like myself. 

Also (lol) her boss may be leaving the company for early retirement. And it may look like in near future she will get a huge promotion. What an ego trip for a NPD person. She also said that the person who she would work under expects email replys as late as 9pm. So I thinks she is priming me for her to be working even at home. So much for family time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Just keep working on you Jerry.

I like the Alpha you.

Is your wife's current boss a man?

Will the new boss if she gets the promotion be a man or a woman?


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Just keep working on you Jerry.
> 
> I like the Alpha you.
> 
> Is your wife's current boss a man?
> 
> Will the new boss if she gets the promotion be a man or a woman?


current boss is a guy (62yo)..new boss would be a woman, this woman expects fast replys to emails and take charge work ethis. My wife tells me the woman boss is like her, and don't know if that is a good mix she says...


----------



## iheartlife

jerry, our fav SAHD, thought of you when I saw this

(Hope the link works)

NYT: Dads Are Taking Over as Full-T
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScubaSteve61

So, Jerry, its been 3 months... Have you made any progress?


----------



## Mario Kempes

Jerry was here recently with this . . . . .

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/58635-need-advice-reverse-phone-number-lookup.html


----------



## Louise7

jerry123 said:


> So i lost it last night...she gets UTI once in a while after sex and has these pills she takes. So part of my investigation to see if she is cheating on me with neighbor is to keep count. Well, we have not had sex in 8 days and i counted them 3 days ago and there were 29. i count last night and there were 24. She did not mention having to take any...
> 
> So i make a huge mistake and ask her if she is cheating on me. She gets really defensive and says no. I tell her i've had this bad feeling for a while. I do not tell her who i think it is though. She of course tells me i have no proof.
> I absolutely do not reveal i have a VAR/GPS...
> I know i should have waited to get proof but i just could not stop myself from asking her. I knew she would deny it, now if she is then they are going to bury it for a while.


...


----------



## jerry123

Progress on VAR the other day. She got in her car and was looking at phone. Said "ha,ha I love keeping secrets" to herself. Spoke did not yield many results. Checking her phone but nothing from emails or texts. 

Still argue about her role and my role in marriage. She thinks her day ends after work. Which means no helping pick up with dishes or even getting kids baths. Told her other day to read my daughter a book and she stomped out with a hissie fit but did it. 

She is dead set that my "job" is from 7am-9:30 pm. I get kids up, feed breakfast, get them to school. Help out in their school 3 days a week. Shuffle them to activities. Make dinner, clean up. Going to start taking a different approach now. Tonight I am going out with the guys. She has to worry about dinner and getting them to bed. 

We had a talk the other day about how she feels not appreciated for being the one that works. I told her of course I am very appreciative of her. That's why I do these things. But I guess it's never enough!!

I am looking into classes for next year. My plan is to begin a new career and if things don't get better then I will consult a lawyer and see if I would get custody of kids down the road. Can't deal with this crap. Should not have to. 

So damn sick of this Alpha attitude she has. During early summery MAP was working great. Sex 3 times a week, she had a better attitude, still did not help much around house but things were ok. Seems that was just a shut up ploy. 


So now: sex 1 time a week and its only Saturday night. Sometimes 2x on weekends but rare. I initiate every time. No hugs, luv you's, 1 kiss in morning. BTW, back in beggining of year that one kiss was a peck on cheek because she always turned her head. That changed when I let her know how weird it was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Louise7 said:


> I am sorry you are having such a terrible time. I could be missing the point (apologies if I am) but there are lots of reasons women get a UTI and I know you say it's after sex but with repeated infections that can happen without the usual trigger. I'm just trying to give a little balance in that I don't think a UTI is confirmation. I do agree that gut instinct is a good indicator. Been there, got the teeshirt and now I seem to be going there again.
> 
> I'm sorry you are hurting.



Thanks for the post...

I actually googled it and seems pretty common. Thing is, I take shower every single day. Clean up good. She cleans up good. 

It's not everytime that it happens. She thinks its from the c-section when my daughter was born. She has been to drs. And they did the test where they stick the tube up there and probe. Everything came out fine. She never just gets the UTI, it's probably only 3-4 x a year. She takes the pills right after as a precaution.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScubaSteve61

jerry123 said:


> Progress on VAR the other day. She got in her car and was looking at phone. Said "ha,ha I love keeping secrets" to herself. Spoke did not yield many results. Checking her phone but nothing from emails or texts.
> 
> Still argue about her role and my role in marriage. She thinks her day ends after work. Which means no helping pick up with dishes or even getting kids baths. Told her other day to read my daughter a book and she stomped out with a hissie fit but did it.
> 
> She is dead set that my "job" is from 7am-9:30 pm. I get kids up, feed breakfast, get them to school. Help out in their school 3 days a week. Shuffle them to activities. Make dinner, clean up. Going to start taking a different approach now. Tonight I am going out with the guys. She has to worry about dinner and getting them to bed.
> 
> We had a talk the other day about how she feels not appreciated for being the one that works. I told her of course I am very appreciative of her. That's why I do these things. But I guess it's never enough!!
> 
> I am looking into classes for next year. My plan is to begin a new career and if things don't get better then I will consult a lawyer and see if I would get custody of kids down the road. Can't deal with this crap. Should not have to.
> 
> So damn sick of this Alpha attitude she has. During early summery MAP was working great. Sex 3 times a week, she had a better attitude, still did not help much around house but things were ok. Seems that was just a shut up ploy.
> 
> 
> So now: sex 1 time a week and its only Saturday night. Sometimes 2x on weekends but rare. I initiate every time. No hugs, luv you's, 1 kiss in morning. BTW, back in beggining of year that one kiss was a peck on cheek because she always turned her head. That changed when I let her know how weird it was.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Man, Jerry... I was really hoping that you would have progressed one way or the other by now... Solid proof that she either is or isn't cheating...


----------



## jerry123

ScubaSteve61 said:


> Man, Jerry... I was really hoping that you would have progressed one way or the other by now... Solid proof that she either is or isn't cheating...


Yeah, me too. Just when I start to think things were all in my head I hear that on VAR. could mean a lot of things but what secrets does she keep...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Remains

If you found what you did on the VAR, that is weird! Have you got spyware on the phone? If she is cheating and communicating with another then I would say that it is through some kind of app or instant messaging. Spyware will find that.

Just watch out because the settings...if not right...can give the game away.


----------



## jerry123

Remains said:


> If you found what you did on the VAR, that is weird! Have you got spyware on the phone? If she is cheating and communicating with another then I would say that it is through some kind of app or instant messaging. Spyware will find that.
> 
> Just watch out because the settings...if not right...can give the game away.


Did that with spybubble, when i tried to access online a message came up on her phone asking to allow this web site access. She showed me it but i blamed my son going on her phone.

Her server at work probably picked it up as spam/virus and asked for permission.


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## turnera

Ask a friend to follow her. With a camera.


----------



## vi_bride04

I can't believe there is still really no evidence. Its been months!

Can't even imaging how you feel about all this and the whole "secrets" comment. Has to irk you to no end. 

I do like turneras idea and having someone follow her. Have you tried that at all yet?


----------



## Speed

Jerry,

I have followed your post from the beginning. There was a point where I was actually hoping you would find some concrete evidence just so you could break free from this mess. Personally I don't think it is going to happen.

Do you really want to continue to live this way? She has stated that she has no respect for you. She knows that you aren't going anywhere so why should she have to put in any effort?

I really think you need to re-evaluate your current situation. She undervalues you and if you do end up leaving hopefully one day she will realize it.


----------



## tom67

Speed said:


> Jerry,
> 
> I have followed your post from the beginning. There was a point where I was actually hoping you would find some concrete evidence just so you could break free from this mess. Personally I don't think it is going to happen.
> 
> Do you really want to continue to live this way? She has stated that she has no respect for you. She knows that you aren't going anywhere so why should she have to put in any effort?
> 
> I really think you need to re-evaluate your current situation. She undervalues you and if you do end up leaving hopefully one day she will realize it.


I think speed summed it all up right there! How much more of the blatant disrespect are you willing to put up with I mean you have put forth the effort but it's never enough.


----------



## turnera

I may be wrong, but if you're the SAHD and have been for some time, isn't it a good bet that you can take her to court and make HER pay YOU child support while the kids stay with you?


----------



## Speed

turnera said:


> I may be wrong, but if you're the SAHD and have been for some time, isn't it a good bet that you can take her to court and make HER pay YOU child support while the kids stay with you?


Yes, and he could easily get alimony.


----------



## Chaparral

Cell Phone Recon: Mobile Phone Tracker Monitors Messages, Calls & More

Bluetooth Mobile Phone Recorder-Audio Surveillance-More to Explore

Digital Voice Recorder Pen | Covertly Record Audio w/ the Pen Recorder

Ha Ha they also have voice changing gizmo. You could use it like they do on the war of the roses radio show. One of their tricks is to call a suspected cheater and pretend to be the health dept. They tell them they have been listed as a sex partner to a person who has tested positive for a STD. Then they ask for the first name of all their sex partners in the last 6 mos to see if that matches the info they have been given. This is the trick that works best on the show. One dude listed six people......more than busted.


----------



## Shaggy

Jerry, 

You had planned to get a job at the end of summer. Don't keep putting it off. I think you'll find that when you backed off and went back to SAHD that undermined the map big time.


----------



## Chaparral

Stay at home dad, successful working wife. Jerry, you get what you pay for.


----------



## Machiavelli

Here's a nice page on frequent UTI issues.
"almost 80 percent of premenopausal women with a UTI have had sex within the previous 24 hours."

Sure, she could be the 20%. she's sure not doing it with you, though.

More: "She's most at risk the first time she has sex with a new partner. Frequent sex increases the risk of developing a UTI, too, as does having more sex partners."

Why no PI?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Stay at home dad, successful working wife. Jerry, you get what you pay for.


Chapparal- not to be a wise arse but a working husband who bust his butt 60 hrs a week who gets cheated on does not deserve it. Neither does a SAHD working 100 hours a week (7 days may I add). 

Even if I get a job my wife's Alpha style will not change. At this point if i were working full time, she still would be expecting me to make dinner, clean up, help kids homework, do baths and put them to bed. That's the type of person she is. As of now we are barely speaking since for the last 3-4 days I have been manning up big time on things. Fine by me, I spend time with kids. Watching football, had a nice night out with friends Friday while she stayed home and put kids to bed. 

I'm done trying to play nice, keep things smooth so she can strut he arse around the house with her nose in the air and barking commands at
Me and kids like we are one of the people who work under her. 

Start school next year and begin a new career is my focus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

But you keep kicking the can down the road. 
What I meant is you are being treated the way she percieves your value, not what you "deserve". She values you as a servant because that's what you have allowed yourself to become.

What happened to this year?


----------



## jerry123

Machiavelli said:


> Here's a nice page on frequent UTI issues.
> "almost 80 percent of premenopausal women with a UTI have had sex within the previous 24 hours."
> 
> Sure, she could be the 20%. she's sure not doing it with you, though.
> 
> More: "She's most at risk the first time she has sex with a new partner. Frequent sex increases the risk of developing a UTI, too, as does having more sex partners."
> 
> Why no PI?


I bought a pen recorder and it is actually something I should have gotten a while ago. PI would be $900 for 3 days/3 hours a day. And they would not be able to follow her at work since its a secure building. The pen recorder is working great. 

To be honest, I don't even know if she is in an EA/PA with someone. It's just the signs and red flags are there along with the 3 weird VAR talking to herself. She could possibly be the type of woman that has no emotional connection with AP. just wants it to be PA with NSA. That's the toughest part for me, is for the fact there could be no lovey dovey fog associated with a new partner. But that gut feeling is there. 

She is traveling Thursday and Friday. I would like to have the pen recorder going but don't know if airport security would X-ray it and question the inside of pen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Might as well keep the pen in there and take a chance wth.


----------



## Chaparral

Call your supplier, they should know if it is safe.


----------



## happyman64

Who cares if the airport picks up on it. Deny, deny, deny.

You have nothing to lose Jerry other than your mind.

And I doubt security would care about something that small.


----------



## turnera

jerry123 said:


> Even if I get a job my wife's Alpha style will not change. At this point if i were working full time, she still would be expecting me to make dinner, clean up, help kids homework, do baths and put them to bed. That's the type of person she is.


Then you understand how this isn't HER problem. It is YOUR problem.

She can expect you to do A, B, and C until the cows come home.

Doesn't mean you have to do it.

But you do.

So she continues to expect it.

I'm not telling you to stop taking care of your house and kids. Just understand that she can't get anything from you that you don't give. THAT is where beta comes from.


----------



## Thor

As an airline captain, and not as a TSA expert, I really doubt TSA will blink at the pen. They see all kinds of electronics go through the x-ray machine all day long. They want laptops out of the bag but they never worry about iPods, cell phones, electronic car key chains, etc.

If you think she will not notice the different pen in her briefcase or purse I would just put it in there.


----------



## Machiavelli

happyman64 said:


> Who cares if the airport picks up on it. *Deny, deny, deny.*
> 
> You have nothing to lose Jerry other than your mind.
> 
> And I doubt security would care about something that small.


Where have I heard that before? Nice for the good guys to get to try that out.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> But you keep kicking the can down the road.
> What I meant is you are being treated the way she percieves your value, not what you "deserve". She values you as a servant because that's what you have allowed yourself to become.
> 
> What happened to this year?


Yes i get what she thinks and she does disrespect me. But i don't let her get away with it anymore... The Sh&t test are in full gear the last few weeks by her. I told her I will be starting a path to a new career. I told her that means more help from her with kids and house. 

I went out Friday night, before I left she tells me to come to stairs and shows me a sexy pink bra and panties she was wearing and proceeds to say "if you were not going out tonight I would wear this for you". I proceed to say, well I'm going out but have it on for me when I get home. Of course it was her demented way of telling me the only way she is wearing it is if I stay home. Totally her way of trying to control sex in our marriage. 
You would think a loving and respectfull wife would say, go out have fun since you deserve it and I will be waiting for you. But nope, I come home at 1am and she is fast asleep and not wearing the bra and panties. So I just shrug it off and goto bed. Next day it comes up and I say why were you not waiting up for me. She says "because you went out". I can tell she wants me to get all pissed and cave. I don't !! I say, we'll that's too bad for you since it would have been a wild night. 

So all weekend I could tell she will be this b!tch since I did not let her actions get to me. So I turn up the Alpha and tell her while I'm watching football I need her to make dinner. She does, but has to throw in that she actually likes making dinner. I say good, how about you make dinner on weekends from now on. She stays silent...

See, this is my daily routine with her. I have to Alpha up and show her I will not be disrespected. It pisses her off but I have to stick with it because that is the type of person she is. It may be because I am the SAHD or it may not. Plenty of wives are like her to working husbands. I worked years ago and she has always been this type of woman. Thing is, in the past I never put my foot down. Now I am and she does not like it. 

Well my thinking is tough Sh&t! And I can totally see she will be using sex as her next power trip to "punish" me. But I can't let it bother me or she wins. I can only stay the course and get to school to show her I have the power to make my own money and leave if it comes down to that. 

BTW, we had sex last night. I had to initiate though. But we did have sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Starting to get somewhere...


----------



## jerry123

turnera said:


> Starting to get somewhere...


It's baby steps I guess....

Seriously though, what the heck makes a woman act like that. I think, why does she just leave me and kids and the answer is...no one will put up with that. And she has stayed because in the past I have. I still think she has some sort of NPD. 

So far pen recorder has not come up with anything. Only been 2 days though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

My H works with a young woman who is pretty, and she just literally asks men (like their boss) for what she wants. "I can't afford gas this week, boss. I need some money." Boss (speaking with his other brain): Here, take my business card.

Her ex took their son out in a car when the son was a baby (he's about 4 now), and he was drunk, and they had an accident. She pressed charges on him, sent him to prison, divorced him, and now that he's out, she's getting said boss to help her pay for a lawyer to fix it so the dad can never see his son again. Living with one man but, when she got hired on, shifted her focus onto said boss, they do everything together, even though she's all but married. I told H today that since she's pretty she just grew up understanding that, as a pretty woman, you use that to get what you want from (dumb) men.


----------



## giashasa2012

jerry123 said:


> She is traveling Thursday and Friday. I would like to have the pen recorder going but don't know if airport security would X-ray it and question the inside of pen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



If I would be you ,I would test it not just ask the supplier .

Take a short trip somewhere with plane and the first time through the control don't say anything , just wait if something happens . 
The second time (flight back ) ask them if it shows on their monitor and everything else that you can think of an may need to know.


----------



## jerry123

giashasa2012 said:


> If I would be you ,I would test it not just ask the supplier .
> 
> Take a short trip somewhere with plane and the first time through the control don't say anything , just wait if something happens .
> The second time (flight back ) ask them if it shows on their monitor and everything else that you can think of an may need to know.



I did not put it in her purse for this trip. Wish I did because she has gotten worse with this attitude lately. 

Been bad for the last week, not talking much, takes 3 hour naps on weekends. No intimacy, no sex...not helping with kids or housework. 

Well I had enough, made dinner last night after she slept from 1-4pm. After dinner she gets on iPad and does not even offer to help clean up so I just go and watch my show. She yells down to me, "what are you doing". I say watching my show. She gets all pissed and picks up dishes but refuses to put in dishwasher. Goes to bed all mad. 

I've had enough of this crap, I can't deal with a wife like this. I'm good looking, loyal, great dad, and she just can't see through her blind fold. 

I told her I'm not her F'in maid or butler. This marriage is supposed to be 50/50. She just looked at me and shook her head. 

I am just taking off by myself for the day, saying bye to kids and just leaving.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Jerry

Your wife takes naps for what?

Why is she always tired? Is being a B!TCH that much work?

Enjoy your day off.

HM64


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Jerry
> 
> Your wife takes naps for what?
> 
> Why is she always tired? Is being a B!TCH that much work?
> 
> Enjoy your day off.
> 
> 
> 
> HM64




I really don't get it!!

Maybe she is depressed, who knows. I'm done anyway. 

Actually the no intimacy and sex has not bothered me. Her attitude and the way she treats me is so unattractive. I have no desire to even touch her. Just thinking of doing the 180 at this point. I've given too much and it has not worked. So makes sense to check out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

She does it because YOU LET HER!

You get upset and you go watch tv. You get upset and you leave the house.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Why should she care how you feel? You're a Grade A doormat.

Man up, go home, and tell her to move out.


----------



## Gabriel

Jerry, go blow off some steam to calm down. Then, later today, go home and tell your wife that on the weekends you expect her to pitch in 50%. That she should not expect you to be the housemaid all weekend - you need some time off too, and the attitude of expectation is pushing you out of this marriage.

If I were you, I would get a job, ANY job, a couple nights a week, just to get out of the house. Go lift boxes at a warehouse or something and exert some energy, or work the counter at some store to interact with other adults. Forget the money, just for a release.


----------



## vi_bride04

Gabriel said:


> Jerry, go blow off some steam to calm down. Then, later today, go home and tell your wife that on the weekends you expect her to pitch in 50%. That she should not expect you to be the housemaid all weekend - you need some time off too, and the attitude of expectation is pushing you out of this marriage.
> 
> If I were you, I would get a job, ANY job, a couple nights a week, just to get out of the house. Go lift boxes at a warehouse or something and exert some energy, or work the counter at some store to interact with other adults. Forget the money, just for a release.


Great idea.

It is holiday season...should be quite easy to find a stocking/warehouse type job


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Jerry, go blow off some steam to calm down. Then, later today, go home and tell your wife that on the weekends you expect her to pitch in 50%. That she should not expect you to be the housemaid all weekend - you need some time off too, and the attitude of expectation is pushing you out of this marriage.
> 
> If I were you, I would get a job, ANY job, a couple nights a week, just to get out of the house. Go lift boxes at a warehouse or something and exert some energy, or work the counter at some store to interact with other adults. Forget the money, just for a release.



Her and I have talked about this millions of times. She just thinks working all week is her only duty. I have told her about the 50% part and she thinks her job is the 50% part. That's it.

Listen, I don't let her get away with this crap. That's why she is so pissed at me. I am standing up for myself and she does not like it. 

I am not acting mad or pissed, I'm just not doing certain things. 

I'm done opening up to her, like you said she does not care how I feel. So why should I care how she feels. 

Getting a job at night won't change one thing, I could work 5 jobs and her attitude will not change. 

Look, I know my wife. I know how she operates. She is not going to change. She is a control freak. No one including myself can change her. She can only want to change herself. 

If I worked full time and did only the minimal at home she would still be the same. 

I do what I do right now for my kids. 

My only option is to get schooling and start a new career. Support myself and kids, find someone that respects me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

I like your last sentence. But that's long term. In the meantime, take some of HER money, and hire a housekeeper if she refuses to cooperate.

Who controls the money/bills?


----------



## jerry123

turnera said:


> I like your last sentence. But that's long term. In the meantime, take some of HER money, and hire a housekeeper if she refuses to cooperate.
> 
> Who controls the money/bills?


I do all the bills, she has her own checking account and so do I. I have a budget and set amount I transfer when her check goes in bank. 


One thing we never fight about is money. She has always said all our money and possessions are ours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Great! 

Your job tomorrow is to hire either a housekeeper, a cook, or a nanny. Do it.


----------



## Thor

jerry123 said:


> Getting a job at night won't change one thing, I could work 5 jobs and her attitude will not change.
> .
> .
> .
> If I worked full time and did only the minimal at home she would still be the same.
> .
> .
> .
> My only option is to get schooling and start a new career. Support myself and kids, find someone that respects me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jerry, most of your post was about her, what she thinks, and how she feels. I don't see where _you_ fit into _your_ priorities.

You getting a job in the evenings won't change _her_ but it may be good for _you_. Do what makes you happy and what reduces your upset. Don't have any regard for what she might think of what you do. 

Long term yes your plan on schooling seems the right solution for you. Short term I think you should put some emphasis on reducing your stress wrt your wife. Establish some of your own territory by maybe getting that evening job or taking up an interest which might require some weekend time. Look at her anger as an indication you are doing something right.


----------



## jerry123

Hi everyone!!!
A member suggested I update my status. 

Well, it's been a long road to where I am now. I've mostly been visiting MMSG forum to stay focused on my MAP. I do visit TAM once in a while to comment on certain threads. 

My wife and I had been on a few vacations alone in the past few months (Poconos, Vegas) and had a great time. Lots of communication and tons of sex. 

Although lately, last few weeks, I've become bitter and resentful to the massive sh*t tests from her. I know I should maintain my frame but its been hard. I tend to fight off the tests easily but I basically become distant from her and silent. 
It's difficult to show affection to her when she starts up those sh*t tests because I've read don't reward for bad behavior. And it's been really bad in the last few weeks. 

But the sex has still remained 2x a week. And it's been pretty good sex, meaning I've been able to preform up to 3x a night with her. 

I've learned she enjoys watching porn. She woke me up a few times during the night after watching soft porn channels. And if I want another romp in bed after sex, I can just turn the soft porn channel on and it seems to get her ready again. 

As for any new developments on cheating/affairs there is none. I've become a pretty darn good observer to things. And with talks between her and I, she knows how I feel about any cheating. We will absolutely divorce if infidelity happens. 

I stay busy helping with sub work at my kids school and coaching my daughters softball soon. Also, I am doing some eBay stuff for a friend and making 20% sales comish. It's relatively easy work for easy money. 

I had a woman at grocery store follow me around for like 30 minutes last week. It was a great confidence boost. She was smoking hot also, took a lot for me to maintain myself. She not only took off her coat to reveal a stunning body and a huge rack right in front of me but also made it a point talk to me and smile a lot. After I checked out she was already in parking lot and I could see her looking me up and down and trying to make eye contact. Oh man, to be single again!!

One thing I have to work on is to not engage her in arguments or fights. We've had a few this year where I would say some nasty things to her. I know, just STFU and move on. But it's hard. 

I stay focused on my work out which helps me in body and mind. Had a full physical and blood work. My doctor told me I'm the healthiest 46 year old he has seen. My T levels are at 675, which I think pretty good!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Good update, but I gotta ask: are you not discussing these sh*t tests with her and explaining what they are and why she needs to stop them? Seems like that should be part of your MAP.


----------



## jerry123

turnera said:


> Good update, but I gotta ask: are you not discussing these sh*t tests with her and explaining what they are and why she needs to stop them? Seems like that should be part of your MAP.


In a round about way, without mentioning the book or forum I have. I know you don't personally know my wife but she is high strung and is not good at controlling her anger. She has many outburst at the kids for mundane things. I discussed that with her and she says that she should be allowed to vent her anger at home and I should ignore it and let her do that. 

Not only that, she has 7-8 people who report to her at work and she expects perfection. In turn she comes home and expects the same from me and kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

jerry123 said:


> In a round about way, without mentioning the book or forum I have. I know you don't personally know my wife but she is high strung and is not good at controlling her anger. She has many outburst at the kids for mundane things. I discussed that with her and she says that she should be allowed to vent her anger at home and I should ignore it and let her do that.
> 
> Not only that, she has 7-8 people who report to her at work and she expects perfection. In turn she comes home and expects the same from me and kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry she is keeping up with the sh!t tests I'll just throw it out there maybe try 1 or 2 sessions of ic.
Boy those grocery stores are dangerous.


----------



## happyman64

Jerry

HowWhy do you test your "T" levels?

HM


----------



## turnera

jerry123 said:


> In a round about way, without mentioning the book or forum I have. I know you don't personally know my wife but she is high strung and is not good at controlling her anger. She has many outburst at the kids for mundane things. I discussed that with her and she says that she should be allowed to vent her anger at home and I should ignore it and let her do that.
> 
> Not only that, she has 7-8 people who report to her at work and she expects perfection. In turn she comes home and expects the same from me and kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What are you doing to change that? I assume you ARE doing something to keep your children sheltered from that?


----------



## tom67

She really needs to separate the job from the home I guess you may have to remind her again.
She is probably too stubborn but she could use ic also.

Does she make time to work out?
If not well it couldn't hurt.


----------



## lordmayhem

jerry123 said:


> In a round about way, without mentioning the book or forum I have. I know you don't personally know my wife but she is high strung and is not good at controlling her anger. She has many outburst at the kids for mundane things. I discussed that with her and she says that she should be allowed to vent her anger at home and I should ignore it and let her do that.
> 
> Not only that, she has 7-8 people who report to her at work and she expects perfection. In turn she comes home and expects the same from me and kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It seems like emotional abuse. Have you thought of starting a career, because it seems as a SAHD, she doesn't respect you. Do you stand up to her?


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## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Jerry
> 
> HowWhy do you test your "T" levels?
> 
> HM


Just out of curiosity. Never in my life have i had it done.


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## lordmayhem

turnera said:


> What are you doing to change that? I assume you ARE doing something to keep your children sheltered from that?


Nothing it seems. :slap:



jerry123 said:


> One thing I have to work on is to not engage her in arguments or fights. We've had a few this year where I would say some nasty things to her. I know, just STFU and move on. But it's hard.


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## jerry123

tom67 said:


> She really needs to separate the job from the home I guess you may have to remind her again.
> She is probably too stubborn but she could use ic also.
> 
> Does she make time to work out?
> If not well it couldn't hurt.


She had issues as a child...she has a younger sister and they both grew up in a household that never seen mother and father show affection to each other. plus the parents used to fight a lot.

She was the one that told me that. And admitted it might play a role in how she is.


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## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> It seems like emotional abuse. Have you thought of starting a career, because it seems as a SAHD, she doesn't respect you. Do you stand up to her?


I do, that is the difference from years ago. I never used to but now that i do she sees it as losing power and me gaining so that results in her getting mad that i push back.

And by STFU, i mean saying nasty things to her in fights. I can hold up my end on fights but i have to stop name calling...it's childish.


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## lordmayhem

If you and the kids want to walk on eggshells around her the rest of your life because you fear her wrath, then that's on you. IMHO, that's no way to live.

Just like the boiling frog syndrome, you've gotten used to it and even seem to be justifying her behavior. 

Good luck with that. I'm outtie.


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## jerry123

Lord: my life has turned 180 from a few years ago. I ran my MAP, look and feel awesome. I'm not saying she is like this every day, but lately she is. 

I don't condone her behavior. I let her know that. 

She works out because she sees me working out. But not nearly as much as I do. 

I do bring in money, subbing and ebay stuff brings in more money for me than what I used to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

If your wife yells at your kids, you need to stop her. Your children are growing up in an emotionally abusive household and they will either become abusive themselves or find a partner who treats them just as poorly. You are the only part of this equation that has the ability to save your kids from this future. Will you?


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