# Got Separation Papers & Will not sign!!!



## ERR71 (May 6, 2010)

Here we go. At the end of April I got hit with the "Legal Separation papers"!!! I have since challenged what she is asking, which is my right. I have asked to talk with her about what we can agree on, and been shunned twice. It is starting to make me angry. I am NOT going to be a part time father... I am NOT giving up my home... I will give $$$ for my kids and the needs of my home. That's it. This separation is HER idea and I don't agree with what she wants. Is it me or isn't an agreement supposed to be arrangement that we BOTH agree on? I love her with all of my heart and continue to hold out hope for us to get back together, however, I will not give up what is rightfully mine just to satisfy her wants right now. I have read posts and feel bad for all the people that have to go through this. Whether you are the husband or the wife, noone should be treated unfairly and left alone questioning everything you do or have done. I am taking steps to improve myself as a person, father and husband, IN THAT ORDER!!!! I am sorry about the rant, but I am losing my mind. Am I wrong for not signing what she is asking?


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

DON'T SIGN ANYTHING YOU DON'T AGREE WITH YOU WILL FOREVER REGRET IT!!!!

Did she do this through a lawyer? If so you need to get a lawyer even if you plans are to reconcile or she is just going to drag you through the mud and it will be very very unfair.l


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Here we go. At the end of April I got hit with the "Legal Separation papers"!!! I have since challenged what she is asking, which is my right.


It is your right to challenge, especially if this is your first notice. Just think of this as her "first offer."



> I have asked to talk with her about what we can agree on, and been shunned twice.


That is her right, to not interact with you and only through her attorney, but it's an expensive proposition on her part because every letter she sends is $250 minimum. My advice is to communicate minimally through attorneys. It's rather pointless. Just go get advised on your rights and go from there.



> It is starting to make me angry.


Don't get angry. It's just a business transaction. That's all.



> I am NOT going to be a part time father... I am NOT giving up my home... I will give $$$ for my kids and the needs of my home.


Okay, let's give you some Divorce 101 here.

1. Divorce sucks. I'm sorry you are going through this and hopefully you reconcile but I am assuming not.
2. The money is directed at who is the custodian of the kids. Now, that is usually the mother but not always. Joint "physical" custody can be anything that's arranged or what a judge rules, whatever is in the best interest of the children. I do think the courts will give you and her "part-time" physical custody, if it's best. No matter if you have them 182.5 days/year or 1 day, year, you are not a "part-time father", you are always their father.
3. Based on #2, if you divorce, you WILL be a part-time parent. Refer back to #1.
4. The house usually, usually operative word, goes to who the primary parent is, because that's where the kids reside. 



> That's it. This separation is HER idea and I don't agree with what she wants.


From a legal standpoint, it doesn't matter if she's the complainer or the complaintant (I think those are the terms). . .what she wants or is entitled really usually mostly centers around the kids. I left my wife but she was the one who files. It doesn't matter.

Remember. . .the judge doesn't care if she slept with the NY Yankees and you slept with the Las Vegas Rockettes. They want to make sure the children are cared for. (in no fault states it doesn't matter - infidelty which is what most states are going towards).

They just won't care about your drama or her drama. They've heard it all.



> Is it me or isn't an agreement supposed to be arrangement that we BOTH agree on?


That's probabably what will happen but if you can't agree, than it's what a judge rules in which case you have a binding court order.



> I love her with all of my heart and continue to hold out hope for us to get back together, however, I will not give up what is rightfully mine just to satisfy her wants right now.


As you shouldn't.



> I have read posts and feel bad for all the people that have to go through this. Whether you are the husband or the wife, noone should be treated unfairly and left alone questioning everything you do or have done. I am taking steps to improve myself as a person, father and husband, IN THAT ORDER!!!! I am sorry about the rant, but I am losing my mind. Am I wrong for not signing what she is asking?


No, in fact, I really doubt a judge would certify such a thing unless you had been duly legally advised anyway. Remember, divorce attorneys try to rattle your cages and they rattled yours sucessfully.

IT was just a first offer. Tell her you reject it.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

I sort of wanted to sort of add on to the great advice scangraud gave you. Right now me and my H are sperated and we did agree on shared custody of our kids but I pretty much am getting to raise the kids in the home with everything in the house. I got pretty much took the savings(I have been a SAHM and he took the cars) he also is paying all daycare cost and health care(for the kids and me) I am also getting a good amount of child support. 

Don't consider yourself a PT father. I definitely the primary parent but I allow my H to have access to the kids when ever he wants even if it is a quick stopping by to kiss the kids good night. I am pretty lucky because when it comes to the kids he is an amazing day. I hope are able to still remain a great relationship with your kids.


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## ERR71 (May 6, 2010)

Thanks for all of the advice. To answer a few questions; Yes she went through a lawyer. I told her that I would not talk to her through a lawyer. I told her that if she was not adult enough to sit and talk about this, that I would fight her every step of the way for the house, kids, support, alimony, etc... She does not have the money to keep going to this lawyer. I was in such bad shape at first, I guess she figured I would just give in and let her have what she wanted. I guess she thought I would think if I did that I could have her back. Not so fast my friend... I have been advised to protect what is rightfully mine. However, I do not want this to turn ugly because I DO want to reconcile. The kids deserve to have us give it a shot...


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

I see where you are coming from I honestly do. I also believe that after 11 years our children deserve us to at least try therapy but he is in his own fantasy world right now so all I can do is really sit back and let things happen. 

Don't let her bring anger out in you.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

ER,

It is her right to use an "agent" to discuss all matter regarding the divorce. You can't force her to the table to talk.

I would just instruct your attorney that every time she sends a "negotiation letter" to just discard it or file it, especially if her demands are unreasonable.

Frankly, you haven't even discussed what she is demanding. If she wants the house, maybe it's because she plans to raise the kids there.

That's a good reason. You get a "buy-out" then.

In effect, your divorce outcome is already "predetermined" depending on your circumstances and law. Having an attorney act as a "liason" is expensive and an attorney can't change the law.

There is the law which has guidelines on who gets the house, who gets the kids (it will be the one more suited to parent, which in my case was my wife, who wanted to, and that's fine), who gets child support and so on.

"Fighting" for it will do little good.

In other words, if you work nights, and she has always been the primary parent, then why would a judge grant you the house, custody and the kids?

"Fighting for it" would be ludicrious.

Better question - why would you want it?

And anger won't help towards reconciliation. Just remain businesslike when it comes to property and the children. That's what marriage is - a business. Divorce is the final transaction and even then, there will be evolutions in your partnership as time progresses, modifications to parenting and so forth.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

By the way, everyone feels "screwed" in a divorce but it's really not been proven out to be the case.

Many men complained that they thought the courts were biased in that they granted custody to women more often than men. The problem was when the proved it out, and examined the particulars of the case, it was really most of the time the men weren't suited to be the primary parent.

It doesn't mean that they would be bad non-custodial parents; it's just that their circumstances didn't allow for it.

Probably the courts if it's a close call would tip towards the woman (and with the kids, so goes the house) but more than not, it was shown most of the time, correct ruligns are being handed down.

Use the law.

Usually there is a reason behind it. Remember, you aren't the first to divorce and certainly won't be the last.

There may be actually a bonafide reason she wants the kids and house. You may NOT be suited to raise kids by yourself. I really wasn't with my work schedule and actually do appreciate my stb-x's effort and sacrifice in that regard.

I would hope she appreciates I give her post-dated checks for child support, so she never has to ask or go without, and work extra to make that support but my suspicion is she doesn't appreciate it. I try to make child support a "primary" obligation. All she focuses on is kind of like what you are focusing on - what you are losing. Remember the responsiblity she (and you - supporting 1.33 households) is assuming by being the steward of the kids and the house.

I am just suggesting to just think before you act rash.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> I am just suggesting to just think before you act rash.


QFT:iagree:


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

By the way, regarding parenting (which again, so goes the house - not with her - with the kids). . .my stb-x and I had a discussion on who would be best.

Her pros and cons - she was more stable, more 9 to 5, and made more money. Con - she was very impatient with them and yelled at them a lot.

My pros - more patient, perhaps a better disiplinarian and all around better with the boys but less stable.

I offered to be the custodial parent though and told her I would sacrifice a lot with my career if she didn't want to. She said no and here we are.

I think if this progresses, you need to have an honest discussion and whether you really can be the custodial parent. MOst men can't. I don't even think most men can do the 50/50 thing. I don't even agree with the 50/50 King Solomon thing, which is the latest fad I know. . .I don't think kids should be put in a "purgatory" with their home.

*Anyway, it's really okay if you aren't awarded primary physical custody*

You are 100% their father.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

ERR71 said:


> Here we go. At the end of April I got hit with the "Legal Separation papers"!!! I have since challenged what she is asking, which is my right.


If by "challenged what she is asking for" you mean that you responded to the court to her legal separation within the certain period of time in which to respond--then yes you do have that right. 

If you don't agree to the provisions set forth in the petition you have the right to file a counter-petition. You do not have the right to force her to talk to you, to talk to you without representation, or to just "yell at her" about what you disagree with. And if you don't file something within the certain period of time (usually 30 days or something) then her petition WILL go into effect. 



> I have asked to talk with her about what we can agree on, and been shunned twice.


If you are going to her directly and trying to "make" her talk to you about agreeing, and she has stated she will not talk to you, talk to her attorney--they I would suggest that you stop talking to her and talk to her attorney. Here's why. You can represent yourself if you so desire, but she will get billed for every moment you speak to her attorney and for every reply he has to make. She will run out of legal money sooner. 

If you continue to push her and try to "make" her talk to you after she's stated "talk to my attorney" you will be treading VERY, VERY close to a restraining order, and I guarantee you--once you get even a temporary RO you will be required to move out of the house, leave the kids there where you can't go, and will not be able to contact her in any way ... or it will become permanent. 



> It is starting to make me angry. I am NOT going to be a part time father... I am NOT giving up my home... I will give $$$ for my kids and the needs of my home. That's it. This separation is HER idea and I don't agree with what she wants.


Then use your energy toward stalling the separation and working the system to your advantage rather than working against yourself and what you really want. There is no reason in God's green earth you can't file a counter-offer petition that says YOU get the primary custody and the house and if she doesn't like it SHE can move out. Soooo...file that formally. Then she'll have so many days to respond to your counter-petition and then you can stall by rescheduling, etc. The point is that using your energy for anger will not get you want you want--and chances are about 100% that you participated in the marriage issues that got you to this place. So be wise and use your energy wisely. 



> Is it me or isn't an agreement supposed to be arrangement that we BOTH agree on?


This is actually a very common mistake people make. There is MORALLY and there is LEGALLY and they are not the same. Morally the right thing to sit down together and reach a mutual understanding that considers both parties respectfully. Legally think of marriage as a business contract. He contributes this and this and in return receives this; she contributes that and that and in return receives that. You want this to legal separation to be morally and for someone to tell her "You did wrong so you don't get everything you want" but from a business contract point of view, she is merely ending the contract and suggesting how she proposes to separate the business assets. Make sense? 



> I love her with all of my heart and continue to hold out hope for us to get back together, however, I will not give up what is rightfully mine just to satisfy her wants right now.


 And therein no doubt may be some of the trouble. The house is not YOURS. The kids are not YOURS. (They are also not hers, but she's not the one running around saying she won't let you have them.) Every advantage you have is due in some way to a contribution she made that maybe you didn't see as valuable. Did she work while you went to college "back in the day"? Yeah--you have higher, better earning power now because of that...you got value. Was she a SAHM while you climbed the corporate ladder? You didn't have to pay maid and child care because of that and you got value. Sort of see what I'm saying? You weren't the only one contributing but she may feel like that's how you see it. That's certainly how you express it! So without actually taking anything from you at all--she is 100% literally entitled to it--she can have up to 1/2 of everything you two have built together. That is hers, free and clear, to take. 

So before you get all freaked out, you may want to consider that she may be requesting what is rightfully hers to request. Now is it moral? No she made a vow to be faithful to you until she was dead. But legal business contract? You tell me.



> Am I wrong for not signing what she is asking?


 If you disagree don't sign. Counter-petition. Then you go back and forth on that for a while. Then go to court-ordered mediation. Go back and forth on that for a while. Then the judge will decide for you.


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## ERR71 (May 6, 2010)

Thanks to all for the advice. I have not yelled or forced a talk with the W. She has asked that if there were things I didn't agree with in the paperwork to let her know. This is where the problem arises. I have expressed to her that I want to talk about what we can do to have an agreement without lawyers. She did say she would like that. However, has yet to act on it, which is why I am getting a little angry. She is staying in our home with our kids and I am on outside looking in. Not harassing her or bugging her. I still take the kids to their activities during the week. Because of this, me and the W see each other too much. Each time I see her I miss her greatly. I don't want animosity towards either one of us. We were best friends and now we are not. I miss it all. However, I will not allow my emotions get the best of me and give in to her at this time. Again, thanks for the help.


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