# Lack of sex



## amana1982 (Jun 7, 2015)

Hi everyone I need to vent. I have been married almost a year now and together 3 years. I love my husband but we are having intimacy issues. When we first started dating I knew he didn't have much experience in the bedroom and I was fine with that. He had never ejaculated during sex before we started dating. We tackled that and that's not an issue anymore. Another issue we started having after we moved in together was that his lack of confidence sometimes affected his performance meaning he would loose his erection during sex, we also tackled that issue and it's not a problem anymore. Our sex was never great but it was improving and I love him so it was very fulfilling for me. The issue now is that we are barely having sex, I have a high sex drive and it's difficult for me to only have sex once a week or even 2. In the last couple of months I find myself having to take care of business on my own and my mind has started drifting thinking about an ex. I haven't cheated and will not cheat on him I love and respect him way too much. I have tried talking to him and telling him that most of the time he always has an excuse, he's either tired, too full from dinner, just doesn't want too etc. It's affected my self-esteem his constant turn downs that I don't even try to initiate anymore. We don't have children and it scares me the way things are headed. It also doesn't help that the ex that I have been somewhat fantasizing about started texting me (the ex lives in a different state) he knows I'm married. We haven't crossed any lines but I fantasize about him the sex between him and I was out of this world the best I've ever had. What do I do? How can I get my husband to wake up and get him more interested? Thanks


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

he needs a big time wake up call.

knock him out of his comfortable chair and tell him to attend to you more often or things will go bad.

oh, and stop texting your ex. stop it yesterday. it will lead to cheating. don't kid yourself. end of story


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

The internet is filled with men complaining about lack of sex so this is interesting. I think sex therapy is in order because things like this rarely get better with time. I am just going to throw this out there, but your husband's behavior is much like the husband's of my two cousins. Their husbands are gay but were in denial. Most men are aroused by any naked girl willing to have sex with them, full of food or not. I have had sex while recovering from surgery in bed. It is not uncommon for gay men to marry women. I have seen this more than a handful of times in my lifetime. 

You need to communicate well with your hubby and find out what the problem is. I faced a similar situation with my wife. Over the years she had been repressing her bisexuality and after she finally came out, she found that she prefers sex with women more than men. It helps that she shared her girlfriends with me. Now we are old and have sex once or twice a week instead of daily, but we now know what buttons to press on each other. My wife prefers women for sex but that does not mean she does not have intense orgasms with me too. It is just that she does not like penetration and once we removed that worry from her, things got better fast.

Of course he may not have sexual identity issues but merely a low libido but even that may be fixable. Low Testosterone perhaps or even something he does not like to do that he feels he must do like performing oral sex on you. Growing up being taught that sex was dirty causes issues too but unless you ask or convince him to see a professional, you will never fix your problem and I know from experience that if you are not being sexually satisfied, you will go elsewhere. When it comes to sex, people make bad decisions all the time. 

I twice told my wife point blank that if she does not have sex with me at least once or twice a week, I will assume that I am free to go elsewhere and she is OK with it because a marriage without sex is just friends without benefits. She saw the light. Good luck to you but I urge you to get to the bottom of this before your hoo-hoo makes your decisions for you, and it will. I know because I have been the other guy a few times for women with husbands like yours. They feel that they are forced into cheating as the lesser evil to getting a divorce from a man that they otherwise love.

Good luck but ask your husband to be frank with you because you cannot live without sex and if he will not provide it, you are going to assume that it is OK for you to discreetly have sex with others. If that is not OK with him, let him suggest a solution. If he has none, that is a problem.


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## amana1982 (Jun 7, 2015)

I forgot to mention that I traveled for 3 days came back last night we went to dinner after he picked me up at the airport, before bed I tried to initiate things and he said tomorrow. What the heck I was so upset..... I missed him and wanted to be intimate but it has to wait.. I don't understand..


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You had an ex who had a series of qualities (sex was good, other things were bad) so he became an ex. You found a man who had another series of qualites (many were good, sex was bad). 

You are now finding that for you sex is quite important in your marital relationship. I think that's important information for you to use in your life choices.

You are already cheating on your husband, by the way.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Better to lose three years of your life than four. Every day you spend trying to cajole and pry a bit of affection from your android is 24 hours you could be spending in a real relationship. At least you don't have kids.


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## amana1982 (Jun 7, 2015)

Hicks said:


> You had an ex who had a series of qualities (sex was good, other things were bad) so he became an ex. You found a man who had another series of qualites (many were good, sex was bad).
> 
> You are now finding that for you sex is quite important in your marital relationship. I think that's important information for you to use in your life choices.
> 
> You are already cheating on your husband, by the way.


After reading other member's post I have deleted the ex from my phone. Yes sex is very important for me and he knew that when we started our relationship. I love him and only want to be with him, I don't care that our sex isn't the best I love him so it's fulfilling for me. You are totally correct the ex was great in bed but nothing else and that is why he's an ex I am not interested in any way being intimate with anyone else other than my husband.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Whether the guy is sexually compatible or not is rather irrelevant in my estimation. What's more telling is that he seems indifferent to your needs and fixated on his own. Why would you hang with a guy who would rather watch you twist in frustration than devote a few minutes of his spare time to give you a little relief? Would he be more attentive to your needs if you were sick, frightened, heartbroken, disabled? At some point you are very likely to be all of those. If you can't trust him to meet your reasonable, basic, very human needs when it costs him not a damned thing, he's not required any sacrifice or risk, what good is he going to be to you (or any future kids) when he is called upon to take risks and make real sacrifices?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Your husband is either no or low drive. You are high drive. You are not compatible. 

Your options are:

1) You understand that sex is very low priority to your husband and accept that you will not be having sex often enough to satisfy your needs, part of this acceptance is also accepting that you may (probably will) end up in a totally sexless marriage at some point in the future

2) You end the marriage and seek out a partner that is compatible with you overall, including sexually

3) Or you cheat in order to have your needs met while staying married

I highly recommend #2


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Whether the guy is sexually compatible or not is rather irrelevant in my estimation. What's more telling is that he seems indifferent to your needs and fixated on his own. Why would you hang with a guy who would rather watch you twist in frustration than devote a few minutes of his spare time to give you a little relief? Would he be more attentive to your needs if you were sick, frightened, heartbroken, disabled? At some point you are very likely to be all of those. If you can't trust him to meet your reasonable, basic, very human needs when it costs him not a damned thing, he's not required any sacrifice or risk, what good is he going to be to you (or any future kids) when he is called upon to take risks and make real sacrifices?


 @unbelievable has hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't incompatibility; your husband isn't just neglecting your needs, he is flat-out refusing to meet them.

How much you love him doesn't matter if he treats you poorly, because unless there is some SERIOUS intervention, it's not going to get better. 

You guys have been married a year. You're young, with no kids. You should be fvcking like bunny rabbits. There is something seriously, SERIOUSLY wrong with him and your marriage. Whether he's gay, has low testosterone, or has some emotional/psychological issues hanging him up, whatever it is, it's a big problem, and it's going to hurt YOU more and more if it's not addressed.

If you're not on birth control, get on it NOW. Make sure you're not getting pregnant with this man; you don't want that attachment if you ultimately have to end this marriage.

Which you may have to do. He vowed to honor, respect, love you... and he isn't doing any of those things right now. Are you willing to live like this for the rest of your natural life? Probably not, otherwise you wouldn't be here.

You need to find a marriage counselor who is an expert in sexual dysfunction, and who is sex-positive (I'm hoping those two would go hand-in-hand). And you need to start thinking about what you're going to do if this can't be fixed. Because there's a good chance that it can't be fixed. You've been "fixing" him from the very beginning of the relationship, and relationships aren't supposed to be this hard. Yes, they say that relationships take work. But this isn't what they're talking about. It shouldn't be this difficult, especially not when you're newlyweds.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Whether I really feel like it or not, if my wife needs or wants something and it's in my power to meet that desire, I do my best to provide it. That would be especially so for basic physical needs and emotional needs. That's the biggest part of the job description of being a husband. People who can't stand horses have no business being jockeys. I wouldn't spend much time trying to persuade a jockey to ride a damned horse. They either like to ride or they applied for the job fraudulently. Sex is a natural part of marriage. He can be happily celibate by himself.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> Your husband is either no or low drive. You are high drive. You are not compatible.
> 
> Your options are:
> 
> ...


Me too. :iagree:

I married an LD, low/no-interest-in-sex man. (He sure fooled me when we were dating!)

I hung in there for 20 years, raised two kids with this man, and watched my self-esteem plummet from +90 to -250!! (Yes, minus 250!) I was young-looking for my age, fit as a fiddle, smart, educated, relatively pretty, men hit on me constantly, and YET.... my husband wanted NOTHING to do with me!!

I learned WAY too late, WAY after my self-esteem was shattered, that this was HIS problem, not mine.

You are in a sexually mismatched marriage. Toss this fish back... there are many men out there who are just SALIVATING at the chance to meet a well-grounded, HD woman who wants to explore all the beautiful mysteries of an intimate relationship.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> You are in a sexually mismatched marriage. Toss this fish back... there are many men out there who are just SALIVATING at the chance to meet a well-grounded, HD woman who wants to explore all the beautiful mysteries of an intimate relationship.


And, the flip side, there are many women out there who have low drives and who would love to be married to a man who doesn't "bother" them for sex.

There's a lid for every pot.

If you leave, your husband can find a woman he is truly compatible with and you can find a man you're truly compatible with.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

It won't get better if he is not willing to work on it. And if it doesn't get better, it gets much much worse over time. Thank him for helping you learn how important sex is to you. Thank him for showing you love. Then do both of you a favor and free yourselves from this prison.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Sexual incompatibility is a HUGE problem, even if the husband is gladly meeting her sexual needs, while having none of his own. I could not stand a marriage where my husband was mostly "servicing" me, while having very little desire for me! The pain would be UNBEARABLE.
> 
> Sure, there are times in a marriage when your needs are not perfectly in sync, and yes, you need a partner who will take a few moments out of their day to "take care of you" even when they feel no desire at the time themselves. But having a partner that doesn't feel a baseline compatible level of lust for you? No, that's a deal-breaker. It's vitally important, IMO.


THIS POST contains the nuts and bolts as to why sexual problems begin to surface in many relationships. It demonstrates a serious lack of self confidence on behalf of @OliviaG to feel loved while helping a partner potentially struggling with long term anxiety. This post is identical from what you find in most men because it is often much more difficult for a women to achieve sexual satisfaction and orgasm via procreational lovemaking. 

The OP did say her husband could get an erection and climax but that she needs him to be more enthusiastic. This desire for enthusiasm comes from HER lack of self confidence. 

When perfectly healthy women experience problems achieving pleasure during lovemaking, it is often the *SELF CONFIDENCE* of the male that becomes shattered. The wife struggling will still put forth an effort to please him, but then he will go into a frustrated temper tantrum and demand she enjoy herself. Then he will attempt to FORCE her to orgasm as a misguided attempt to prove to himself that she loves him. If and when she experiences this, there will be minimal or no pleasure from it, and she may cry afterwards feeling as though the love is gone. 

In the case of the OP she seems to have mild issues with her own self confidence and may be trying to force her husband to enjoy sex. 

While sex will be different in this scenario than her ex, she needs to learn to be very confident. Teach her current husband to please her, and allow him to respond to that on his own terms. It may be wise for her to NOT allow him to orgasm until he is the one that forces her to allow it to happen during sex.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> I don't know what's causing his issue, but it seems likely to be his biology since during 3 years of patience and understanding from his wife the problem still exists.


THIS POST contains the nuts and bolts at the NEXT thing that destroys a sexual relationship in most relationships. A person struggling with self confidence issues while forcing his/her spouse to enjoy sex often concludes that the other person is somehow BROKEN and can not see how it is their own lack of self confidence destroying the relationship. 

Men often trying to force wives to enjoy sex, will claim that the wife has hormonal problems and send them to a doctor. This now erodes her self confidence and destroys even more chances that the couple can fix her problems when the doctors can NOT find anything wrong. She is 100% healthy and just needs a confident husband that can share his overall happiness and sexual gratification with her in order to her to respond on her own terms. 

Since the problem here in the Original Post is the man's desire and years have progressed, odds are the "honeymoon" phase of the relationship is over and IMO the next "nurturing" phase for newborn children should be beginning but there are no children. Regardless of who you marry, remembering sex from the past will always seem exciting because it was full of additional hormones from BOTH partners. 

If I were to throw a wild guess at the REAL problem, I would say he is 100% healthy and has one of the following issues:

• Sex with his wife ends up in her complaining and making him feel inadequate, which in turn makes sex stressful instead of pleasurable. For an inexperienced male (I used to be one), learning how to please a woman is a very AWKWARD process to go through. He may very well be traumatized if she has ever bragged about her previous sexual experiences and compared that to him. 
• His career is threatened or is NOT what he wanted it to be and he is under too much stress.
• He may very well masturbate chronically and hide it in the relationship. This makes sexual intercourse numb for him if he is ashamed and/or still in his refractory period.

Now IF one of those were the REAL problem, imagine being told by your wife that something is WRONG or BROKEN with you biologically! 

Regards, 
Badsanta

PS: @OliviaG I am not attacking you personally, but you make the perfect case to help illustrate a few things since you actually seem very confident and likely take this for granted. 

PPS: Men and women actually ARE THE SAME! We are all made up of the same parts and this is why men have nipples! However, everyone is put together differently and experience things in their own unique way. If you were to be born a man, your clitoris would have grown into a penis while you were a fetus. There are some women that take male hormones for whatever reason, and guess what start to happen to their clitoris?


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## mitchell (May 19, 2014)

Are you just pouncing on him and demanding sex?

Men need a lot more non-sexual physical interactions during the day if you want him to have sexual feelings for you later. Just grabbing him and telling him you want sex is not going to work.

Try complimenting him through the day. Maybe even help him with chores around the house. Offer to do the dishes after dinner and have him go and take a nice relaxing bath before bed.

When you get into bed, don't just hop on him and expect him to be ready for sex. Men like some teasing and foreplay. A nice long, slow BJ might work wonders before you start penetration.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about the dastardly things that the OP is doing wrong here, (complaining about him sexually, making him feel inadequate, bragging to him about past lovers and comparing him to them, calling him "broken", forcing him to enjoy sex) but to be fair, you did say that you were making a wild guess.


TRUE, I can only make assumptions. I do so offering a glimmer of hope! If my assumptions are correct and the OP will be able to reflect on this, then the problems will have to be resolved in a DIFFERENT way. Instead of asking him to enjoy sex, she can ask him to help work on her self confidence so that she will KNOW that he loves her.



OliviaG said:


> PS You can't be serious that we really are all the same, men and women. You just can't, so I won't go there...


Emily Nagoski, Ph.D. in Health Behavior with a minor in Human Sexuality from Indiana University.

"Come As You Are" ISBN 9781476762098



> ...the male and female genitals are made of exactly the same parts, just organized in different ways...
> 
> (fetal diagrams of genitalia development similar to this one shown)
> 
> ...


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Get rid of him, and be thankful you don't have children.
And it doesn't sound like this is going to be a problem, but whatever you do, don't get pregnant!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Okay, but these two are significantly beyond six weeks into their gestations...lol.. And what about their differing hormone profiles, brain wiring, socialization, etc., etc.?


Well...

Take two identical twins for example. They are actually made up of all the SAME parts put together in the SAME way. Hypothetically lets assume one is extremely sexual with very active libido while the other is very frigid with no libido. Both are physically healthy and happen to have the exact same levels of hormones, upbringing, and social circles.

The ONLY thing that sets the two apart was competition early in life for the same mate. One had excessive sexual access to a mate, while the other had no companionship during a critical development period for sexual self confidence.

Then they swap later in life and this desired mate goes on to marry the other twin. How do you now help the one with the low libido as well as this mate that was used to getting much better sex? Assume they will have to stay married and exclusive. Do you force him to have more sex and compare him to his twin brother? Or do you love and accept him for who he is and share with him your own happiness and desires from within so that he can eventually respond to this love and acceptance all on his own?

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

intheory said:


> @badsanta
> And we don't know what her husband actually is all about. Shouldn't he be making some moves on his own oomph?


Correct!

But if she has always taken the lead sexually and never given him the chance to make his own moves, IMO it is as if sexuality in the relationship takes on a right hand / left hand relationship in which one person's sexuality is dominant over the other one. The subdominant sexuality will tend to look to the other for when to respond. Once this precedent has been set into place, it is as difficult to change as learning how to write your own name with your left hand. 

How many times have you signed your name with your left hand? You could do and and start changing, but it will take patience and *confidence* that you will eventually be able to do it.

Badsanta

PS: Your right and left hand are also made up of all the same parts! Both are equally as healthy and capable. (This is me being an ass by the way!!!)


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## Lloyd Dobler (Apr 24, 2014)

amana1982 said:


> I forgot to mention that I traveled for 3 days came back last night we went to dinner after he picked me up at the airport, before bed I tried to initiate things and he said tomorrow. What the heck I was so upset..... I missed him and wanted to be intimate but it has to wait.. I don't understand..


Amana,

do you know if your husband is using porn? I'm guessing that he was using porn while you were away and didn't want to try anything when you came back for fear of things not working. I used to do this with my wife when I was using porn, so this rang a bell with me.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@badsanta

I've read a bit about men and women damaging their genital nerves due to masturbation technique. Vibrator on too high or pushed into the flesh too hard for women and death grips or tugging the head too hard for men seem to be the most common. Apparently, if the behavior is stopped or modified, usually the damage is short term. 

For men, the recommendation is to NOT masturbate by laying on the stomach and pressing into a pillow or mattress often and to use varying strengths of grip along the head and shaft. For women, to not use the most intense setting regularly and to move their fingers or device around rather than stimulating only one spot.

Beyond the physical, there is a bit of psychological conditioning. You get used to reaching orgasm in a certain way and it becomes a lot more difficult to reach orgasm in another way.

So, one of the first things I thought when I read OP's H had NEVER ejaculated during sex and then had issues maintaining erections, I wondered if maybe those problems stemmed from him masturbating over a long period of time in such a way that made his penis less sensitive along with making his body and mind unused to being aroused and reaching orgasm through PIV.

Of course, having sexual difficulties makes a man feel less confident. Of course, being married to a man with sexual difficulties and/or LD would make a woman feel less confident.

He doesn't initiate and makes excuses when she does. Why doesn't matter nearly so much as the H seems content with things the way they are and has seemingly no interest in working on their sex life despite being aware that the frequency is a problem for his wife.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> @badsanta
> 
> Of course, having sexual difficulties makes a man feel less confident. Of course, being married to a man with sexual difficulties and/or LD would make a woman feel less confident.


Correct! 

One should NOT make a partner responsible for his/her own self confidence, but yet we are ALL strongly impacted by how we "think" the other person feels about us! Odds are we are loved by our partners, but any lack of self confidence will persuade us otherwise and that we are not worthy of being loved anymore. 

My wife might tell me NOT to get my hopes up that she is NOT in the mood tonight. I'll just look at her and smile with a very devious grin, and tell her, "don't worry, I can work with that!" Her reaction is to smile uncontrollably (knowing I love her) and become very receptive! In the past, I would throw a temper tantrum and get upset at her for not even trying...

Badsanta




amana1982 said:


> I forgot to mention that I traveled for 3 days came back last night we went to dinner after he picked me up at the airport, before bed I tried to initiate things and he said tomorrow. What the heck I was so upset..... I missed him and wanted to be intimate but it has to wait.. I don't understand..


Perhaps @amana1982 you would have had a much different experience had looked at you husband with a devilish grin and told him, "don't worry, I can work with that!" and pulled him into the bedroom anyway!


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i still don't get what is so difficult about all of this for men and women.

my mom or dad never had a talk with me about the birds and the bees.
sex education in H.S. was a joke and just talked a bit about the biology and how to avoid STD's and pregnancy not about marriage.
i was a naive young dude that probably knew less than most my age and certainly less than kids today.
lot's of my buddies would talk about lurid sexual stuff and their conquests (real or imagined) and it would go over my head.
i didn't have my first kiss or intimate relations until way after most guys my age.
i was a dumb young guy when it came to women.

but i knew instinctually and just plain common sense, that if i ever got married it would mean having frequent sex and needing to please your partner.

what is it about some people out there that just don't get maybe the most fundamental premise of marriage??????


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

mitchell said:


> Are you just pouncing on him and demanding sex?
> 
> Men need a lot more non-sexual physical interactions during the day if you want him to have sexual feelings for you later. Just grabbing him and telling him you want sex is not going to work.
> 
> ...


Did I fall asleep at lunch and wake up in The Twilight Zone?


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't know if the OP will come back to this thread and read this, but my guess is that the root cause of the problem is either 1) a chronic masturbation habit where he now prefers or needs to use his own hand, or 2) low testosterone. 



badsanta said:


> A person struggling with self confidence issues while forcing his/her spouse to enjoy sex often concludes that the other person is somehow BROKEN and can not see how it is their own lack of self confidence destroying the relationship.
> ...
> 
> If I were to throw a wild guess at the REAL problem, I would say he is 100% healthy and has one of the following issues:
> ...


 @badsanta, we cannot yet conclude that OP's husband is 100% healthy. Yes, it might be a porn/masturbation overuse problem, but there's still the possibility of low testosterone. If he had a average to strong sex drive (and isn't masturbating), awkwardness or work stress wouldn't cause him to avoid and turn down sex for months on end.

I used to be in OP's situation and I think it is almost unavoidable for a woman's confidence in her desirability to slowly erode. Most women find it unnatural to usually be the initiator unless their H loves it and responds eagerly. If you get turned down more often than not, it is gets increasingly difficult to initiate confidently. Flirting 'with a devilish grin' would have been impossible for me due to numerous past turndowns, so I stuck with approaches like offering a backrub.

OP's lack of confidence is the result of being turned down, but thereafter it does becomes part of the problem. However, the root cause of the issues in OP's marriage isn't her lack of confidence, it is the H's lack of desire for her.

True, the OP needs to be careful not to phrase things as if her H is 'broken', but her H does need to proactively take action to address his issues or the marriage will erode and possibly end. 

I suggest that OP do the following:

1) For a few days, do some investigating on your H's computer and phone history to look for signs of porn use. Begin with investigating rather than asking him since if he has an addiction, he is not likely to admit it. Eventually, ask him and if you think chronic masturbation is his problem, maybe seek help from a sex therapist. Also, encourage mutual masturbation sessions and sessions where he teaches you to touch him in the ways he likes. Due to his fairly low sex drive and ED and avoidance of partner sex problems, he needs to completely avoid taking care of things solo and save up all of his energy for mutual activities only.

2) Strongly encourage your H to get his total testosterone, free testosterone, and estradiol measured. OP I suggest you spend time coming up to speed on the testing and treatment issues. Many doctors are not aware they need to test for free testosterone as well as total, and many doctors don't offer to treat unless a man is in the lowest 2.5% of the range. Look at the specific numbers in your H's test results and look at the online charts and information to find out where his numbers fall compared to a healthy young male. The free testosterone number is more important than the total testosterone but the range varies on the lab doing the testing and test technology. For total testosterone, the numbers and technology is more standard, and your H should be in the range of 500-850 nanograms/dL. If a man is at about the 400 ng/dl level, the libido can be quite low and treatment should be considered if there are symptoms of low libido (assuming the person is otherwise healthy, no heart disease/cancer etc.)

I suggest reading the book 'Testesterone for Life' by Morgentaler. Also read the articles on testosterone at the Life Extension Foundation's web site, e.g. male hormone restoration

My husband's libido greatly increased after he started testosterone shots. My H self-injects testosterone cypionate twice a week (it's not a good idea to do it only once a week or less since you can get a roller coaster effect). It is inexpensive for us since it is not a patented drug and covered by many insurance plans. Note that viagra and cialis do not increase libido, testosterone is needed for that.

My H used to avoid being alone with me, came to bed after I was asleep, and avoided showing me affection. I think it probably was because 1) he didn't want to have sex, and 2) their was an absence of bonding hormones which sex provides so he didn't have the same emotional feelings for me that he felt when we were first dating. 

This treatment solved our issue and things are so much better now. I'm very thankful we got the testing done, did our own reading on the tests and treatment options, and found a good urologist who showed my H how to do his injections.

A woman's hormonal imbalance is harder to solve since you cannot just flood a woman with testosterone (without causing side effects), but for man, it can sometimes be this simple.

In our case, it wasn't my 'lack of confidence' at the root of our issue, it was a physical/hormonal problem. It may or may not be the same for OP's husband.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

amana1982 said:


> He had never ejaculated during sex before we started dating. We tackled that and that's not an issue anymore. Another issue we started having after we moved in together was that his lack of confidence sometimes affected his performance meaning he would loose his erection during sex, we also tackled that issue and it's not a problem anymore. Our sex was never great but it was improving and I love him so it was very fulfilling for me. The issue now is that we are barely having sex


Your husband needs a DOCTOR ASAP. This is some kind of erectile dysfunctional issue. It's not mental. There is something seriously wrong with his plumbing. I mean, never ejaculated during sex? How is that POSSIBLE for a man?!? You might not recognize the seriousness of it because its normal (though sad) for some women to not cum during sex but don't apply those standards to men. You married a sexual dud in the sack and you need a doctor who specializes in penis's to figure out what it is (I forget what they are called).

Good Luck.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> I really don't want to get into the "men and women are different" thing with you again, but...
> 
> *Women often have responsive desire,* right? *Men do not.* Women tend to be more submissive sexually, men more dominant.


 @OliviaG The whole concept of a "mistress" is as follows:



> *mis·tress*
> [ˈmistris]
> NOUN
> *a woman in a position of authority or control:*
> ...


Ask yourself "why" a man would desire a sexually confident and authoritative woman? The answer is that men have responsive desires as well. It can be a huge turn on for a man to give up control and allow the woman to take the lead in the bedroom!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> Sexual incompatibility is a HUGE problem, even if the husband is gladly meeting her sexual needs, while having none of his own. I could not stand a marriage where my husband was mostly "servicing" me, while having very little desire for me! The pain would be UNBEARABLE.
> 
> Sure, there are times in a marriage when your needs are not perfectly in sync, and yes, you need a partner who will take a few moments out of their day to "take care of you" even when they feel no desire at the time themselves. But having a partner that doesn't feel a baseline compatible level of lust for you? No, that's a deal-breaker. It's vitally important, IMO.


That's not the way the human mind works. Humans must justify to themselves every action they take. If he "serviced" her often enough, his brain would actually physically change and sex would become something he wanted to do. By the same token, each time he refuses her, he must justify that to himself, reinforcing in his own mind that sex is an undesirable chore and that she is unworthy, unattractive, oversexed, etc. Each of us decides who we will be and we get to decide whether we are attracted to our spouse or whether we will remain that way. 

I can take 50 eighteen year olds who hate being told what to do, hate to run, hate to do pushups, and in eight weeks, at least 45 of them will be doing these things even when they aren't required to. 
In eight weeks their minds drastically change. 

Love is a choice. Contentment is a choice. Whether I love my home, my job, or my wife depends entirely on how I choose to think about any of them. Infatuation can just happen. Lust can just happen but love and devotion are choices.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> I agree: Love and devotion are choices. The problem is that LUST is not. *If you don't have adequate sex hormones you will not feel lust. Period.*


I will agree with you on hormones, but I actually do think that one can choose to or choose not to lust for something. While the lust you are thinking of is that which occurs spontaneously and naturally, it is possible to condition one's behavior so that ample hormones are produced and lust can be someone mentally induced at will.

An example might be a couple struggling to determine methods of family planning during an interim period in which hormones should not be used (problems with high blood pressure for example). The best viable option may be temporarily using condoms for which that kills any pleasure and desire for the male to desire sex if he has to use condoms. 

A possible solution might be to make an effort for condoms to become highly erotic, by creating playful sexual scenarios or exploring latex kinks. After a certain amount of exploration what was once a huge turn off can be "cultivated" into a huge turn on. 

At the same time, there are many simple things men can do to boost testosterone. Sexual teasing, exercise, delaying or avoiding orgasm during sex or masturbation, etc, etc. 

Much like Pavlov training a dog to associate ringing a bell with food to cause a dog to salivate, we can actually condition ourselves to associate something rather sexually inert into eliciting a very strong sexual response that one would normally identify as lust.

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> A woman who takes the lead in the bedroom and initiates frequently makes him feel less and less manly because *HE IS FREQUENTLY UNABLE TO RESPOND.* He wishes he could respond, but his body does not follow his command. This is very demoralizing for him, (and also for his partner, which makes him feel even worse). It puts a vicious cycle in motion. You probably can't relate to this, as you've never suffered from low desire.


I've been in situations before when my wife was pregnant that her libido skyrocketed while mine plummeted from stress at a new job.

*I strongly agree with you*, that the situation you described can "easily" create a vicious cycle. 

*Perhaps the OP and her husband can continue to work through it, but it takes patience and devotion, as well as learning to be self confident.*

Badsanta


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> I agree: Love and devotion are choices. The problem is that LUST is not. If you don't have adequate sex hormones you will not feel lust. Period.


Everyone has to experience feelings but we don't have to act on them.
If the average man acted on every lustful thought you and most other women would be afraid to go out in public. 

I have no particular hormones that make me feel like doing most things my wife finds important. My choice to be in a relationship with her meant I would make her priorities mine. I now have a pet bunny and four dogs and feed wild birds, squirrels, and stray cats. That's not because I'm Dr. Dolittle. I love her, she loves animals, so now we both love animals. 

People all over the world get married without ever even knowing each other before the wedding. Those marriages typically are quite strong and satisfying. Somehow, those couples manage to behave like loving, committed, sexual married couples regardless of any expectations they previously had for a mate. 

I just don't believe it's all that complicated or problematic. Just do what you said you'd do. If you don't naturally like it, talk yourself into liking it. Parents feed their kids whether they have an abundance of feeding hormone or not. I don't know that I have a proper level of work hormone but I trot myself to work every day.
If you sign up for a position where sex is a reasonable expectation, then knock boots. The words "if I feel like it" haven't appeared in any marriage vows I've ever heard.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

First, stop any and all communication w/ your ex. That's noise that you don't need. That you're in contact w/ him at all is inappropriate, and it has the potential to explode into something far worse.

Next, try eating dinner earlier. Who prepares dinner? If it's you, get in the habit of preparing a bit less of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

amana1982 said:


> Hi everyone I need to vent. I have been married almost a year now and together 3 years. I love my husband but we are having intimacy issues. When we first started dating I knew he didn't have much experience in the bedroom and I was fine with that. He had never ejaculated during sex before we started dating. We tackled that and that's not an issue anymore. Another issue we started having after we moved in together was that his lack of confidence sometimes affected his performance meaning he would loose his erection during sex, we also tackled that issue and it's not a problem anymore. Our sex was never great but it was improving and I love him so it was very fulfilling for me. The issue now is that we are barely having sex, I have a high sex drive and it's difficult for me to only have sex once a week or even 2. In the last couple of months I find myself having to take care of business on my own and my mind has started drifting thinking about an ex. I haven't cheated and will not cheat on him I love and respect him way too much. I have tried talking to him and telling him that most of the time he always has an excuse, he's either tired,* too full from dinner*, just doesn't want too etc. It's affected my self-esteem his constant turn downs that I don't even try to initiate anymore. We don't have children and it scares me the way things are headed. It also doesn't help that *the ex that I have been somewhat fantasizing about started texting me* (the ex lives in a different state) he knows I'm married. We haven't crossed any lines but I fantasize about him the sex between him and I was out of this world the best I've ever had. What do I do? How can I get my husband to wake up and get him more interested? Thanks





GusPolinski said:


> First, stop any and all communication w/ your ex. That's noise that you don't need. That you're in contact w/ him at all is inappropriate, and it has the potential to explode into something far worse.
> 
> Next, try eating dinner earlier. Who prepares dinner? If it's you, get in the habit of preparing a bit less of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





OliviaG said:


> @GusPolinski : *wrong thread?*


Oh no, right thread.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> @GusPolinski : wrong thread?


Don't think so.

I was replying to OP's initial post, though... didn't see the 3+ pages of replied until after I'd already posted that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I do hope you go to a sex therapist with your H and marriage counseling.

Communication is very important, make sure he hears what he is about to lose, if he does not change.

Good luck to you and your H.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> If there's info available about modulating your hormones adequately through some kind of cognitive conditioning, I will delve into learning about it with everything I've got.


 @OliviaG , will your H agree to have his hormones tested (free T, total T, and estradiol)? It seems to me the first step is determining if there is a low testosterone issue. If there is an issue, I think self-injections are the best way to go (testosterone cypionate is a very inexpensive prescription since it is just the biodentical hormone and not patented). Some men use Androgel gel (more $$$ due to patented formulation), or compounded creams (harder to get insurance to pay for compounded items). I wouldn't recommend a form like pellets since it is hard to adjust the dosage and your H wouldn't know his correct dosage until a few months of treatments and follow up blood tests to evaluate if the T level in his blood stream is within the proper range. Blood tests should be done a few weeks after every dosage change since you really don't want the levels to be either too high or too low.

There are some men who cannot take testosterone e.g. if they have prostate cancer so the PSA test and a prostate exam should be done also before starting hormone therapy.

If the couple is planning to get pregnant, the man cannot take testosterone alone, either needs supplemental HcG or just HcG without testosterone (this gets a bit more complicated).

If a man has very low testosterone, it is usually a permanent thing (not just a minor dip that could be caused by stress), and usually the testosterone therapy is needed for the rest of his life. Usually a doctor will order a follow up test a couple weeks after a low reading just to confirm before starting any treatment.

I recommend finding a good urologist or endocrinologist for your H.

If it is confirmed (via blood tests) to be a case of low testosterone, treatment has the potential to help much more and be easier than repeated discussions (often making H feel a failure or anxious/angry/pressured), sex therapy, marriage counseling, cognitive conditioning, lifting weights, diet changes, or forcing himself to act like he has desire for your sake. (My H already worked out with cardio and weights every day for years and had a great diet, and he still had low T.)

In my case, my H did really try to step up when I asked him to before he started treatment, sometimes with great energy, but then soon it would revert to a couple weeks going by in between (I had given up initiating myself due to turn-downs). He still would mostly avoid being alone with me (come to bed late) except on nights he decided to initiate, and there was no flirting or interest outside of those nights. So just having your H decide to step up using his force of will is just not the same as his having a stronger libido and spontaneous desire of his own.

At first after starting treatment, the dosage was too high for my H and he started initiating in his sleep which was kind of funny but also a bit weird for me (I wondered whether to awaken him) and it was disruptive to my sleep. Now that he has found his proper dosage (via adjusting and follow up blood tests), everything seems natural and just like I'd hoped for. The testosterone treatment also made him more sensitive (i.e. he physically felt more sensation/pleasure), he was interested in more variety, sex now crossed his mind at random times, got morning erections again, etc..

@badsanta, I agree patience and confidence is helpful, but I think I was too patient, I wish I would have encouraged my H to get tested years earlier.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> If you have references for this, I would love to read them.
> 
> PS, I'm not being sarcastic, I really have never heard that. If there's info available about modulating your hormones adequately through some kind of cognitive conditioning, I will delve into learning about it with everything I've got.


Much of the reading out there is "tantric sex" "hot yoga" "chakra" "tease & denial" "semen retention" that is mostly mumbo jumbo that will probably conjure the image of some hippy swinger trying to sell you a three day seminar to come watch him have sex with his wife and then invite students to participate. So if you want to skip all that and get down to brass tacks...

• One needs a positive way to encourage the mind to fantasize about sex. Once you can arouse yourself with a sexual fantasy or meditation, the body begin producing sexual hormones that will build until released in a sexual act. A husband should be encouraged to fantasize and nothing should be off limits or shamed. Exploring a fantasy can help one learn about themselves as well. Tantra people may call this a "*sexual meditation*."
• Sexual muscles should be exercised in both men and women! Wait a minute, some women have orgasms during yoga classes? Yogasm! Whaaaat. Basically men should do kegels too! 

You may also find some of the articles on Reuniting | Healing with Sexual Relationships about semen retention and why to avoid orgasms to be an interesting read. Personally I find this website goes to the extreme of saying that monogamous people should give up orgasms indefinitely, and IMO the practices discussed should ONLY be for a playful and *educational exploration of tantric sex which allows testosterone to build*.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> Thanks again for sharing your experience @Kari . H has had a blood test but they just tested for total T. It came back well within the lab's normal limits but after checking out the site you recommended and some others it seems that it is low for his age. He's 58 and T is ~ 475 ng/dl. We will try to find a good specialist now as you recommended.
> 
> He is working out to try to raise it naturally; it's unclear to me how likely that is to make a significant enough difference though. It sounds as though you think it won't? He's always stayed in shape but is using more weight now and modifying his routine. He also is just coming out of a period of unprecedented stress at work. Can that cause a temporary depression in T levels? If so, do you know how much of a drop in T can be attributed to stress of that nature and how long it takes to resolve?
> 
> I'm certain he has sleep apnea, have been telling him this for a couple of years now, but do you think I can convince him of that? He will not entertain that thought whatsoever. I see that it is often connected to low T levels as well. Not sure whether as cause or effect or if there's just a correlation for unknown reasons. I can't wait to get my hands on the book you recommended. He is very resistant to the idea of taking supplemental T though. I really have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach about this situation.


 @OliviaG , It sounds like your H's testosterone might be slightly higher than many doctors would treat (some treat at around 400 ng/dl but I think the AMA guidelines are now 350 ng/dl). Still the free T level is more important since some of the total testosterone may be 'bound' and unusable, so if things don't improve over the next few months, maybe he should be tested again for free T.

Yes, stress and lack of sleep can have a very big effect on testosterone. If your H has had unprecedented stress at work, once it abates, he may really bounce back. As far as exercise goes, the ones that are supposedly best at raising T levels are squats (affect the largest muscles) and very short high intensity intervals (with weights, or sprints, or jumps etc). Long runs or slow jogs don't help and can actually decrease T levels, and so can overtraining.

Sleep apnea is very important to diagnose and treat since it increases the risk of heart problems and diabetes: Sleep apnea Complications - Mayo Clinic . Does your husband snore loudly? If so, I recommend putting a VAR (voice activated recorder) in your bedroom, and then play it back to him. Hopefully that will convince him to go to a hospital or sleep clinic for a sleep study (most insurance plans will cover at least part of the cost). He may need a CPAP machine, but for testosterone improvement in men with sleep apnea, studies show that losing weight works better than a CPAP. Some people can recover from sleep apnea and no longer need to use a CPAP machine at night once they have lost 20 pounds. 

I think your case is hopeful since 1) based on your posts, your H's drive isn't super low although it is lower than yours nowadays and lower than it used to be, 2) your H is under work stress and maybe things will improve somewhat when it is reduced, and 3) if your H can lose some weight and maybe use a CPAP machine he will sleep better and his drive will increase.

Regarding your spike in drive, have you talked with @SimplyAmorous who had a similar experience? Her peri-menopausal massive increase in libido only lasted several months and then went back to a more livable level (it did not drop down to nothing).

If you ever do have libido issues yourself someday in the future, you could try low dosages of bioidentical hormones or relatively less systemic estrogens such as topical creams or Estring. It is true that hormone therapy is more complicated for women than for men. Testosterone does not increase risk of prostate cancer (although can make existing cancer worse if he already has it), in fact testosterone reduces the risk of prostate cancer. But for women, taking estrogen can slightly increase the risk of breast and ovarian cancer and stroke. The risk may or may not be lowered by using bio-identical hormones only (some people speculate that some of the bad results were found when women took non-bio-identical forms like Premarin or took in pill form) . Some women choose to take testosterone supplements also after menopause. You need to weigh the risks and benefits for yourself. I choose to take estrogen and testosterone replacement myself because my blood levels tested very low and I had low bone density, hot flashes, low libido after menopause. I take a compounded sub-lingual lozenge (troche) once per day containing estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone.

Edited to add: There are *zero* large, peer-reviewed, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials on bio-identical hormone replacement for women, so no one can accurately claim what the risks or benefits are. The WHI study did not use bio-identical hormones. It is not substantiated by any proven studies, but many people today speculate that 1) non-bioidentical forms might be more dangerous, 2) taking estrogen in pill form (metabolized through liver) is a bad idea, and 3) giving hormones to women who have been post-menopausal for many years already is more dangerous than HRT for younger women or women who have been on HRT continuously since menopause. We may never know the truth unless large controlled studies are done using bio-identical hormones but that might not happen since most studies are funded by drug companies and there is no financial incentive to study non-patented compounded hormones. Drug companies are heavily lobbying the FDA to put restrictions on compounding pharmacies (and would like to make them illegal for their own financial benefit).


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> For about 6 months now, he's had some extra weight that he's having a hard time losing; abdominal fat. He's never had this before in his life and never had a struggle with his weight in general. It's not a lot of weight, but still bothers him and it's stubborn to get off. Because of this I'd really like to see his estradiol levels in addition to free T, after doing some reading.
> 
> The VAR is a great idea, thanks! Although he can't stand the thought of a CPAP machine or of having sleep apnea, maybe it would be the lesser of two evils in his mind in comparison to T replacement. Maybe he'll consider it. I'll talk to him about it again noting the connection. He definitely has major problems with sleep; has been complaining about it almost daily for a number of years now.
> 
> ...


Continuing this side convo since OP has not been back, but maybe it will be helpful if she does come back....

Sleep apnea can increase risk of abdominal fat accumulation, metabolic syndrome, insulin insensitivity, etc., so your H needs to take it more seriously. I know a CPAP is no fun but you get used to it and if he loses weight, he eventually might not need it. I don't know a whole lot about apnea (although I have several friends who have it) but I assume you'd need to further diagnose whether it is the 'obstructive' type of apnea in order to determine the type of treatment. From what I've read, apnea can be worsened by allergy or diet factors also.

Maybe buy your H a book on sleep apnea, the most scientific one you can find. Maybe one of these?: Robot Check 

This book might scare your H into getting the sleep study: Robot Check


I had edited my earlier post to add:

There are *zero* large, peer-reviewed, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials on bio-identical hormone replacement for women, so no one can accurately claim what the risks or benefits are. The WHI study did not use bio-identical hormones. It is not substantiated by any proven studies, but many people today speculate that 1) non-bioidentical forms might be more dangerous, 2) taking estrogen in pill form (metabolized through liver) is a bad idea, and 3) giving hormones to women who have been post-menopausal for many years already is more dangerous than HRT for younger women or women who have been on HRT continuously since menopause. We may never know the truth unless large controlled studies are done using bio-identical hormones but that might not happen since most studies are funded by drug companies and there is no financial incentive to study non-patented compounded hormones. Drug companies are heavily lobbying the FDA to put restrictions on compounding pharmacies (and would like to make them illegal for their own financial benefit).

Personally for myself, I have decided to accept the risk of using bio-identical hormone replacement for several reasons, e.g. my hot flashes were interfering with my sleep and work, and with my bone density and my cholesterol/blood pressure/weight/etc, I feel I have a higher risk of osteoporosis than I do of having a stroke.

I think it's a good idea for you to not initiate with your H at this time but ensure he knows you would love it if he would energetically initiate with you a couple times per week. Maybe tell him you are going thru a period of skyrocketing libido due to peri-menopause and maybe ask him if sometimes he would help you out by just holder a vibrator or something like that when he's tired. I suggest phrasing it as asking him a favor.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> I introduced some toys but these are offensive to him, so am making sure he never sees them again. He tried to be a good sport about them but eventually hints of his true feelings started to show. We had a conversation about them and I got the truth - he has pretty negative feelings about their introduction. After he told me how he felt about them they more or less lost their appeal to me too. I don't even use them when I'm alone anymore. Realizing that I'd bought something that turns him off made me feel kind of ill.


I can relate to your experience with toys, my husband doesn't like them either. It is nice to read posts by some husbands on TAM who don't mind incorporating toys. It would be nice if more men realized that sometimes women need a bit more help to O and it doesn't mean the H has a lack of skill. Maybe you are stuck with using your right or left hand in private to supplement.

I just searched and found a couple of fairly objective medical journal articles on hormone replacement.

Off Label Use of Hormones

and 

Comprehensive Review For this one, click on the Full Text Link to download the PDF file of the full article.

It is difficult to find articles on HRT that don't seem biased, most seem to have a dog in the fight. Many articles say 'Since there are no large controlled studies on bio-identical HRT for women, we must assume the risks are the same as for the non-human (e.g. horse urine etc) hormones.' I don't agree that we 'must assume' that. 

Some articles imply that pharmacists should not be providing these compounded hormones because the facts and studies 'don't substantiate the claims' and 'there is no evidence to support' that bio-identical HRT is safer. That is true, but it misleadingly leaves out the other side, that the facts and studies also do not *contradict* the claims since there have been no large controlled studies on bio-identical HRT in women.

Many doctors tend to be conservative and will only do what the AMA currently recommends because that way they feel more secure and are less likely to be sued. AMA will not recommend long-term HRT for women after the WHI results, and there may never be a big study conducted using bio-identical HRT. Thus, even if you are suffering from hot flashes and low libido, many will not want to prescribe HRT.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

Kari said:


> @OliviaG , will your H agree to have his hormones tested (free T, total T, and estradiol)? It seems to me the first step is determining if there is a low testosterone issue. If there is an issue, I think self-injections are the best way to go (testosterone cypionate is a very inexpensive prescription since it is just the biodentical hormone and not patented). Some men use Androgel gel (more $$$ due to patented formulation), or compounded creams (harder to get insurance to pay for compounded items). I wouldn't recommend a form like pellets since it is hard to adjust the dosage and your H wouldn't know his correct dosage until a few months of treatments and follow up blood tests to evaluate if the T level in his blood stream is within the proper range. Blood tests should be done a few weeks after every dosage change since you really don't want the levels to be either too high or too low.
> 
> There are some men who cannot take testosterone e.g. if they have prostate cancer so the PSA test and a prostate exam should be done also before starting hormone therapy.
> 
> If the couple is planning to get pregnant, the man cannot take testosterone alone, either needs supplemental HcG or just HcG without testosterone (this gets a bit more complicated).


All good info (ditto previous posts). I'd add or emphasize a few points:

1. hCG isn't simply a fertility hack, but keeps testes from atrophy & aching by continuing their native T production (which the pituitary would otherwise shut down in the presence of high exogenously derived T levels). 

2. If conceiving a child is in the offing, you want to be careful about TRT, which can significantly lower or crash sperm counts even with auxiliary hCG. More indirect methods are sometimes applicable (hCG standalone, as you mentioned, or Clomid to hack the pituitary, e.g.) and you should talk over strategies carefully with a fertility specialist. It's possible to delay TRT, or freeze sperm in advance, but definitely not something to gloss over and have resentments crop up later. 

3. Estradiol (E2) forms from T via the aromatase enzyme found in fatty tissue. The more overweight/obese the subject, the more prone to overproducing E2 when injecting T. That can lead to suppressed libido, gynecomastia, and generally feeling like crap despite optimal T levels. This can be countered by taking an aromatase inhibitor (AI) such as Arimidex/anastrozole in very small doses (typically 0.25mg/week or so, far less than the on-label dose for breast cancer prevention in women) to maintain a low (NOT zero!) level of E2. This needs to be titrated, not guessed at. 

4. Optimal injection timing for T cyp is 2x/wk as you pointed out...coordinates with the half-life of cypionate ester cleavage. Also, although almost no one will say so officially, T cyp really does not need to be injected deep intramuscular (IM) with huge pigsticker needles...it works fine subcutaneously (SQ) with tiny insulin pins (31g 1/2"). This is common practice on TRT & bodybuilder forums. In medical literature, there is a 2006 pilot study and several subsequent clinical studies to support this, and no obvious mechanistic argument against it (T and its esters are fat soluble; the slow-release pellets are deliberately implanted in SQ fat.) IM is the way the injections were tested and approved, and there just isn't the motivation to go thru the process again on a cheap drug like bioidentical T...so you must act on your own initiative, but you'll have a lot of company. Same goes for hCG injections, BTW. 

5. Outside anti-aging and male health clinics that offer specific focus on the area, general practitioners, urologists and even endocrinologists chosen at random are NOT guaranteed to understand what the state of the art treatment has become (ie, closely-spaced self-administered T injections coupled with hCG and an AI, titrating to HIGH normal T level target such as ~800 ng/dL). You will find plenty of "old school" docs refusing to treat suboptimal levels (like the AMA's 350ng/dL, more typical of an 80 year old man) on the grounds that they're "normal"/"within range", or insisting on giant IM shots in their offices at 2-4wk intervals (during which your levels fluctuate all over the shop), or being completely unsympathetic to side-effects and ignorant about AI/hCG co-therapies.

Unless you are very lucky, you have to be prepared to become your own expert and advocate for best practices with your physician and insurer. I recommend the TRT forum at T Nation as a good repository of info.


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

happy as a clam said:


> Me too. :iagree:
> 
> I married an LD, low/no-interest-in-sex man. (He sure fooled me when we were dating!)
> 
> ...


Has the sex life been better since you left?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Kilgoretrout said:


> Has the sex life been better since you left?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't speak for happy as a clam, but my marriage was similar, minus the kids and about 14 years... I didn't stick it out as long as she did.

The first guy I dated after the divorce last less than two months, but in that time period, I had more sex (and much better sex) than I had in all the years of my marriage combined. Since my divorce, I've had the best mind-blowing sex I've ever had in my entire life.

Given that I haven't found a LTR partner yet, it's not as frequent as I would like, but it's still been a helluva lot better than what I had in my marriage.


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> I can't speak for happy as a clam, but my marriage was similar, minus the kids and about 14 years... I didn't stick it out as long as she did.
> 
> The first guy I dated after the divorce last less than two months, but in that time period, I had more sex (and much better sex) than I had in all the years of my marriage combined. Since my divorce, I've had the best mind-blowing sex I've ever had in my entire life.
> 
> Given that I haven't found a LTR partner yet, it's not as frequent as I would like, but it's still been a helluva lot better than what I had in my marriage.


That's good news. We don't have sex as much as we would like bc we have small kids and are wiped out. But when we do - especially the last few months - I feel like it is better than ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Kilgoretrout said:


> Has the sex life been better since you left?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


YES! Most folks here on TAM know that I hit the relationship jackpot after divorcing my husband!! 

I am in a LTR (5+ years) with the absolute love of my life, hunkiest, sexiest man I've ever laid eyes on . Five years later and I still practically drool every time I look at him. We are a perfect-compatibility match... similar temperaments, hobbies, interests, sense of humor, and sex drives. We are both in great physical shape and enjoy working out together, hiking, riding motorcycles, shooting guns, and of course shooting my compound and cross bows. We have a great life together.

And our sex life is off the charts! :hop:


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Kilgoretrout said:


> Has the sex life been better since you left?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


YES! Most folks here on TAM know that I hit the relationship jackpot once I decided to divorce my husband!! 

I am in a LTR (5+ years) with the absolute love of my life, hunkiest, sexiest man I've ever laid eyes on . Five years later and I still practically drool every time I look at him. We are a perfect-compatibility match... similar temperaments, hobbies, interests, sense of humor, and sex drives. We are both in great physical shape and enjoy working out together, hiking, riding motorcycles, shooting guns, and of course shooting my compound and cross bows. We have a great life together.

And our sex life is off the charts! :bounce: 
Some powerful chemistry and a deep love connection...


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

happy as a clam said:


> YES! Most folks here on TAM know that I hit the relationship jackpot once I decided to divorce my husband!!
> 
> I am in a LTR (5+ years) with the absolute love of my life, hunkiest, sexiest man I've ever laid eyes on . Five years later and I still practically drool every time I look at him. We are a perfect-compatibility match... similar temperaments, hobbies, interests, sense of humor, and sex drives. We are both in great physical shape and enjoy working out together, hiking, riding motorcycles, shooting guns, and of course shooting my compound and cross bows. We have a great life together.
> 
> ...


Wow. That is great. What a wonderful second act
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Note-This (May 27, 2016)

Fantacies (yours, his, or both. Old or new) hand written with romantic lead ins (i.e."M y cherished loved one")-- fold them over, put them in small envelopes. Decide on a night to have a drawing. Choose another day for the holder to open the envelope. Take your partner somewhere and make the fantacy come true. Whether its the car in the garage, a secluded field, a hotel, a hill top, a out of town neighbor's deck or an unused community pavilion wait at least until you get there to show him the envelope. Prepare for it. Put a bag together of some kind. Decide a head of time how many edgings will proceed the first orgasm. What you expect from him. The words total cooperation. A man's second but first pure fantacy is forced (that is dominated sex). Have fun and tell him just to trust you. You may have tobe satified with just a dry rub orgasm until you get him in the habit of seeing and enjoying the freedom of a sanctified relationship. Good luck. I'm praying for you. Be patient. Let him know you want to play and enjoy him in a fun way. Kiss his neck and ears. Give him a full body massage. Tell him you have to have physical contact, affection and gratification. Patience and persistence are a must. Ask him if you can hand cuff fim and then kiss his chest and neck. Shower together and give him a good exfoliation. Oral sex doesn't have to end with an orgasm in the mouth. It could just be an enticement to the opportunity of asking for a pony ride. Communication even with delicate subjects is critical.


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