# Wife can't forgive me



## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

Hello all,

I have been reading the forum for a while now. Figured I would post my story since you guys have been a voice of comfort for so many people. I find myself just we had been dating for 4 years and married for 3-1/2. Through this time we never really grew as a couple. We transitioned from dating to marriage without much of a thought. 

We had sex before we were married which realistically is not a big deal. However, due to her religious upbringing she began to feel guilty about this. So we stopped having sex and stopped really having any passion in between us. I had trouble going from having sex in the relationship to having no sex at all. We stopped kissing and stopped fooling around in general because it would always lead to sex while we were dating.

We had somewhat a poor sex life when we got married. She felt uncomfortable with me touching her anywhere basically during sex. From the start it was pretty much just sex no foreplay. It was okay but at the same time I felt that she wasn’t enjoying it all and it wasn’t bringing us together at all. I want to have that connection with my wife and feel that she also wants to be with me. I thought that the other stuff in the relationship would make this okay but really it did bother me. I did bring it up to her how this made me feel, however neither of us really discussed how to improve the situation.

Through our marriage I supported us basically. She worked helping out her family, and I think I somewhat grew resentful of that. I am not super close with my family at all. We both had such big plans for after college, I didn’t think that she was going to just be working like she was. It’s hard to say anything about financial stuff when you are doing okay with money, however. Especially because she was helping her family with their business. I started to expect that she would take care of everything at home. Sadly I think I started to treat her more like my mother then my wife. When I lived at home I never had to take care of anything, and I basically continued that trend when we got married. 

In the fall she mentioned that she wanted to separate and I got angry because I didn’t understand the reasoning. There was no discussion of her really being unhappy previously; no hey we can work on this, just I am leaving we should go to counseling. I said she was being selfish because she was doing this with such a cavalier attitude. I had a big project due in the next couple of days and if she was that unhappy why didn’t she wait a day or two. I realize that was a huge mistake and the absolute wrong thing to say at the time. I don’t know if I have anger issues really, she did mention that she feels that she had trouble talking to me. I also felt bad talking to her about issues because I did not want to see her upset. For the most part I think I am usually a very calm person and easy to talk to. When I get upset I do tend to get angry. I don’t yell however I do talk louder and quicker. 

We went to marriage counseling in Oct, and stopped going in Dec. In marriage counseling it did not go great. At the end of marriage counseling she basically said that she doesn’t see us being happy together and she wasn’t sure if she could work on the marriage right now. She felt that she had lost her self in this marriage and became someone she wasn’t happy with. She couldn’t commit to working on this relationship.


It took a while but she basically said that she felt she was the only one who was making an effort in this relationship. Due to travel for work we would only hang out on the weekends. We didn’t really talk. We both mentioned that we felt that we had lost the passion in the marriage. However, I did not know how to fix it. I still don’t.

I realize that I was withdrawing from the relationship prior to her leaving. I wasn’t happy with it, however I wasn’t communicating why I wasn’t completely happy with the relationship. I was putting other things first in my life like work and school. I would work all week, usually out of town. We would hang out with friends on the weekends usually Friday and Saturday and Sunday she would hang out with her friends. I never really made an effort to hang out with her friends. I would make excuses that I was tired, I had work to do.

In hindsight I realize that I wasn't the caring person I should have been towards her. I traveled a lot for work, and wouldn't call her or talk to her as much as I should. I realize that I hurt her probably to much to repair. She loved me and trusted me and I did nothing with her trust. I took her for granted. She simply says that she doesn’t even miss me and doesn’t think she can forgive me neglecting her. Basically that she feel relief with this marriage being over.

She is seemingly much happier without me now. She got her own place at the start of the year. We only communicate because I ask to. She has mentioned that because we talked so little during the relationship that she feels no desire to talk to me. She said I need to work on being happy with myself. I will get over her if I hadn’t already because it’s not like I included her in my life.

I will say one thing about myself. I realize that I have horrible self control. I easily get distracted from doing things that I need to. I often jump around from item to item. I can sit and watch tv for hours at a time when realistically there are better things I can be doing with my time. Projects around the house go unfinished for the longest time. I have a hard time motivating myself to get them done and to actually do the work. Like organizing the garage or that kind of stuff. 

I am currently going to IC however I am not sure if it is going great. I seem to mainly be talking about the relationship and not how I need to improve myself. I guess I don’t even know how to improve myself. I have been reading a lot of the self help books recommended by the people on this site and they seem like they have good information though.

I guess my question is how I work on these problems that she brought up. I would like to work on my issues with her, however as I said she doesn’t want to talk to me. I know that I should have paid more attention to her, that I should have tried harder to make a connection with her. I am not good at communicating my feelings, and I am general not an overly emotional or needy person. I can’t blame her for wanting out of the marriage, she wasn’t satisfied with it. At the same time I was just making myself busy so that I wasn’t really unhappy with the marriage but it wasn’t in the fore front of my mind.
I feel like I made a huge mistake having this person trust me and feel that they wanted me and I let it slide away due to neglect.

I feel some what guilty about even posting about these details on the website. I had posted this originally and deleted it because I feel guilty. However I feel that I need to be able to vent and discuss this one. I wish I would have read about this site prior to our marriage falling apart. Try to work on things before they got so bad they couldn’t be fixed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does our wife recognize the things that she did wrong in the marriage? I can see many things. Yet all you talk about here is what you did wrong. 

Now it's healthy to be able to admit our faults. It's the only way we can start to improve. But your entire posts sounds like you beating yourself up.

You married a woman who has little to no interest in sex with you thinking that it would improve after the wedding. It did not. There is no way on earth the two of you were going to bond and form a good marriage with the way things went with your sex life. Sex, good sex, is essential for bonding. 

I'm not going to list the rest of thing things that I picked up on in your post because I would like you to address them. Surely you are aware of them.

She said that she was the only one working on the marriage? How was she working on the marriage?


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi Elegirl,

Thanks for reading my post and replying. I tried reading through my post a couple more times, to see what I was describing poorly. I know its somewhat hard to get a clear picture of a relationship in the span of a couple paragraphs.

Just to clarify we had a decent amount of sex before marriage and realistically it was alot of fun for the both of us. We did a lot of fooling around and we had a good time with each other and that probably lasted a year or so. She began to feel guilty because we had a scare where she thought she got pregnant. Even the few weeks before we got married we fooled around again and we both had fun with it. We didn't have sex but we did mess around and have a good time with each other. However once the official marriage happen it was as discussed above.

We both recognized that we didn't communicate well with each other. That we didn't explain what was making us unhappy to the other person. I tried talk to her about the physical stuff, tried being more romantic. I felt she was doing it out of obligation, so gave up on it. 

I feel some of it was that she was unhappy with how things were going with her life and she kinda just associated that unhappiness with me. I don't think she wanted her life to be going the place that it was going either.

To clarify its not that she felt she was the only one working on the marriage, it was that she was the only one who was wanting to spend time with each other. I was okay with not going out to see her friends. However, we would still hang out on the weekends see the friends I thought we both had. I know I am somewhat of a homebody I like being at home and relaxing. I don't feel Like I always need to be going places to be happy. I would come home from working out of town hang out with group of friends including her. I would relax most of Saturday and we would hang out during the night. We didn't make the effort to connect with each other, to spend more then just random passing time with each other.

I realize what I would of liked out of the marriage that she stopped providing, but I also am guilty of them somewhat. I would have liked a lot more physical contact, and not just sex. This experience kinda made me realize that I don't know myself all that well. I guess I am mentioning what is wrong in the relationship from my point of view. I know I don't need a ton emotionally in a relationship. I did not however feel appreciated or respected, and thats not something I want either.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I understand that in your OP you were talking about your own failings in the marriage. From what you have written it was definately a two way street.

What I see is a wife who does not understand the important of physical intimacy, both sexual and non-sexual, in a marriage. Withhold sex, or giving obligatory sex is considered a form of emotional spousal abuse. It's down right cruel unless there are significant reasons such a illness or things like abuse in the relationship. Your marriage quite honestly had little to no chance of surviving with that issue. From what you have said you wife does not even acknowledge her part in this really. Maybe she does on a superficial level but it does not appear that she realizes that she has such a huge responsibility for the failure of the marriage.

Another topic is her working for her family while instead of for your marrital community. Doesn't she know from her religion that a man and woman are to leave their parents and become one? It was wrong of her to put so much effort into something outside of the marriage without your 100% agreement. Your being unhappy with that is well warrented. 

Now for spending time with her and friends (or her spending time with you and friends).

To maintain a passionate marriage, a couple needs to spend at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of them doing date-like things... going for walks together, having tea/coffee and conversing, going on a weekly date.. etc. Without this time the will grow apart.

You were gone a good part of the week. Your wife had plenty of time during the week to spend with family and friends. On the weekends spending time with you, just the two of you, should have been the priority. You are a home body.. well homes a great place to do a lot of fun things. And maybe there should be been more date nights with just the two of you. 

But if your wife spent much of the weekend with her friends how could she have expected you to keep a bond with her? To me it sounds like things outside your marriage were more important to her than you were.

This is of course my take on your situation from the little you have told here. What is bothering me is that it seems you are mostly being held responsible for the marital failure. But I it seems that she was at least equally at fault if not more so. Assigning blame is not the point here. The point is that while you need to take responsibility for where you could have done better, you need to stop taking the bulk of the fault. And in order for the two of your to rebuild your marriage, she would need to take responsibility for where she was at fault.. part of which seems to be piling most of the blame on you.

If you want to know what to do to repair your marriage or how to do better next time you might want to read the boos linked to in my signature block below for building a passionate marriage. The first book is a good over view. The other two are specific, detailed guidelines on what/how to do. 

In my own life I wish that I had read those books long before I married.


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## thing1 (Jan 20, 2012)

I agree with everything Ele said. It sounds a lot like my situation. Basically, you both have to admit fault and apologize, then forgive one another. Once that is done, you're off to a good start. As with mine, it appears to be a major lack of communication and intimacy that is at fault. This will take some time to heal, I still haven't spoken to my wife on the phone or seen her in two months so I know this. 

I recommend also reading Five Love Languages and for her or you both, Hope for the Separated. The latter is more religious and goes into describing the biblical views of marriage while the former is just a great book for all couples. It sounds like her love language was Quality Time and yours is Physical Touch. You both need to know that about each other and start there. But, as I'm sure you've heard before, she has to be willing to work on the marriage too. Stay consistent, stay calm, stay on course and don't give up.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

At times one has to give up. More so if its the wife who doesnt want. Their minds are usually made up. You have gone to a bad start and I cant see anything improving. You havent told us everything for instance what her family thinks of you. Most likely not favorable and very likely causing the dissent. I am also sure money features a lot more in your 'quarrels'. I think youre really better off without her.


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

From my understanding her parents and her friends don't agree with the separation / divorce, feel that we have issues that need to work on. However, they are her friends and her parents and are going to be there for her.

Its really been the past couple of weeks that I have been able to contact her without sounding desperate. I am doing better each day, however I would still like to work on it. I am at the point where I have explained I would like to work on this marriage, however I realize that it can't just be one person wanting to work on the marriage. If she does not want to work on the marriage we really can't go forward. My not contacting her isn't an indication that I don't want to work on the marriage, its just I know we can't do anything if we both don't want to work on it. I told her that I would not be calling her again. I realize that this is easier said then done. 

Is there anything wrong with calling in a month or two to see how she is doing?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

HTFIO,

What was her childhood like?


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

Overall she had a good childhood I believe. She is very close to her family and extended family. She only has one sibling which is a sister. Her sister and her mother have trouble getting long and would constantly get in fights. Nothing physical just loud yelling matches. She kinda got in between the two of them to smooth things out. She was never really one to fight with her parents for the most part. I would say that her parents get along well with both of the kids now though. Prior to this she talked to her parents a ton, however they don't seem to be talking to her as much. Her parents are still together and married happily, I would say when she was a kid though her parents often had fights about money and other matters. I remember her talking about how she felt her mother didn't really respect her father.

She cut out a lot of the friends that we used to have together, mainly because they took my side in the split. Or felt that we should try and work on the marriage. I don't blame her for not wanting to deal with those friends, she wants someone who will support her decisions. 

I guess what bothers me the most is I can see areas were we can improve our relationship and work on this stuff. However, it doesn't matter because I am realizing this stuff to soon. I should have started looking more into solving the problem when she was at least interested in the relationship. Now I am stuck trying to fight a losing battle it feels like because she doesn't have any feelings for me anymore.


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

How are you guys able to stick to the 180 and not contact your significant other? This is one of the harder parts for me, this is constantly stuck on my mind. I try to distract myself but my thoughts keep coming back to the same place, her not being there any more. If I hang out with friends or family I end up thinking about her.

Lately I have been having some pretty depressed thoughts. I don't plan on ever doing it, but if I am walking near a train track or something the thought crosses my mind of stepping in front of it. Or if I am walking in my building at work, its got glass windows, just imagining myself running into and through one of the windows? I have had these thoughts and I wouldn't say that they have increased in frequency since she left. They are just passing thoughts like a second or two. The only problem is I am somewhat nervous about talking to my therapist about those thoughts as I am not sure if it could have an effect on my job.

I feel like alot is my fault do me neglecting my wife towards the end. I thought we had a pretty good marriage to start with. She basically already told me all I needed to know about where this relationship is going. She said throughout the counseling and the talks on the phone. That she can't see us happy together in the future. That she knows she made the right decision when she left. She has not missed me since she left.

Its unfortunate that you don't know and appreciate what you have until its gone. Whats sad is that I hope that she still takes money out of our joint account so I could feel like she somewhat needs me. Sadly it doesn't seem like she has any need for me.


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

I will say one thing, I recognize that we did not talk about a lot of things in our marriage. I tried to talk to her about it, but she has to have some sort of desire for me for a marriage to work. I am not sure if she really had a sexual desire for me, or if sex to her was just something that she felt I needed. I know what her enjoying sex used to look like, and when we married, there was maybe two times through our sex life that I felt she actually enjoyed what was going on. Otherwise I was pretty happy in the marriage. I liked being around her and being around her made me honestly happy. When I would get in the car with her after work, I would honestly smile when I saw her.

Is it wrong of me to feel neglected sexually after four years of being together that I am not allowed to touch her at all during intercourse. I know I shouldn't have carried that over into the none sexually portion of the relationship, but I felt rejected. I realize that I am probably not the best lover either, but its hard when all you can is have sex and not do much in the way of foreplay. I feel that it was more then just not letting me touch her during sex that it was a rejection of me. Is it wrong to think about the sexual part of the relationship being a problem. I mean I realize it was to me, but to her I think she felt she was doing her part because she was having sex.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

howtofigureitout said:


> Is it wrong of me to feel neglected sexually after four years of being together that I am not allowed to touch her at all during intercourse.


How are you having intercourse if you aren't touching?

And yes, you are right to feel neglected if she's not meeting your sexual needs.

Talk to her and tell her how you feel. Either she steps up to the plate or she won't. If she won't, decide whether you want to have a marriage with the status quo.


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

Well this went quicker then I thought, we discussed splitting financial assets. She is planning on filing for divorce. This was way to quick for me. Been together 8 years and it is completely over in less then 5 months. I don't want this.

She keeps saying that if either of us gave a damn about the relationship we would have made it work originally. I don't understand that logic. Its like saying you can't make mistakes and work on them. We both realized we did stuff wrong in the marriage. I feel it is more my fault then hers, mainly due to my massive low self-esteem. You realize where you made those mistakes and you imrpove on them, you work on them. You let the other person know what you consider acceptable and unacceptable. 

This is freaking brutal.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I am sorry to hear about that. 

You need counselling for your self-esteem. Get into individual therapy. 

No one person is ever at fault for a marital breakdown (mostly). If she watns out that badly, she was never that committed to your marriage.

Get a lawyer and protect yourself. You are better off alone than with being with someone who won't make an effort to maintain and restore your marriage. 

Trust that.


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

Yah I am in IC right now, and it is helping, trying to work through a lot of my issues. Really didn't realize I had that many issues to begin with. I feel like I just rant about alot of issue in IC, mainly the relationship, but am working on some of my other issues as well.

On a plus note, I still plan on reading and finish the marriage books I have been reading. It will give me a sound basis for the future, what ever that maybe.

We are splitting somewhat amicably with regard to finances. But then again, I am the only one who brought in money for us for the years we were married. She helped out her family. 

Glad I found this board, just wish I would have found it sooner. Good information and good people on this board with helpful information. Wish you all the best.


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

Well that was quick for finances we discuss it on Tuesday, more then half of the bank account cleared out by Thursday. I was contributing to that account for the 5 months we were separated she was not. At least she is not going after my retirement fund I guess. I am somewhat young but still like to somewhat plan for the future.

I was reading some information about how the dumper is also hurting because they didn't want the relationship to end that they are also grieving. I wish I had any sort of idea that she was at least hurt that this is not working out. It seems like she is perfectly happy being away from me. She will sometimes cry when I talk to her about wanting to work this out. But she is sticking to her guns about not being able to get past the fact that it didn't work. I know I didn't put enough effort into it to start. I just want to get a chance, to know what is wrong and what I can do to work on it. It doesn't seem like that is going to happen for me. Normally I feel like stuff tends to work out for me in life. This is the big one that is definitely not going to work out.

The worst part is, I come to realize I don't have a lot of interest / hobbies. So I have all this free time now, and I have absolutely nothing to fill it with. I am trying to find new things to do, but really I have no motivation. I don't have much going on other then work and school, and its hard to focus on either


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

Well she dropped off the papers on Saturday, She said she wasn't sure how to do it, whether to bring them in person or not. That she was going to drop them off when I was not home. 4 Years married and she wasn't sure if she should just drop them off. I just don't understand what is going through her head. 

I understand that it is difficult for her, but how can she not see how much more painful it is to me. She drops of the papers and then goes out with a group of friends like its a small thing that just needs to be taken care of. 

This whole time I tried to talk to her I get slow responses or no response. Now she is responding as soon as I send at text about the divorce or the split.

She is sticking to her word about the finances she really doesn't want anything from me. I just wish it didn't have to end this way. 

It felt like I got hit in the chest with a hammer. I knew it was coming, I did but I still had that glimmer of hope that she would give me a chance, that she would choose a life with me. That was the longest day I have ever had. I still have feelings for her, I miss her a ton. I realize she won't be in my life at all anymore, her parents, who were always good to me will be gone as well. The two dogs we had together are gone for me as well. I travel with work, and I don't feel I can take care of them on my own.

I was doing good not contacting her. I haven't spoke to her in about a month, but I still thought about her a lot. I feel like I just don't understand the point of this anymore. What am I working for, I was working for us. Why should I care about this house? Its just filled with memories, which most of them are good but they are tainted with sadness now.


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## DailyGrind (Jun 27, 2010)

Are you sure there isn't someone else?


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## howtofigureitout (Feb 9, 2012)

Dailygrind, not sure but I don't believe there is someone else. It was all pretty sudden for me. Basically came home in October, said she was unhappy and went to her parents. January she had her own place and stopped talking to me really. Don't know where she lives and don't really talk to her, because she doesn't want to talk to me.

I know on this site especially I shouldnt say this, but I don't think she would be the type of person who would do that. I think she would leave before she cheated but she is acting so weird and pushing for this so hard. I am not even sure how I would find out if there is anyone else. At this point though is there even a reason to find out? 

The splitting of the assets is more then fair in my behalf. I think she honestly wasn't happy with a lot of things, as part of her working towards being happy I am getting lumped in with the un-happiness in her life. I am not saying we didn't have problems, its just problems I would always think we would be able to work though.


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## marriedat19 (Mar 28, 2012)

howtofigureitout said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have been reading the forum for a while now. Figured I would post my story since you guys have been a voice of comfort for so many people. I find myself just we had been dating for 4 years and married for 3-1/2. Through this time we never really grew as a couple. We transitioned from dating to marriage without much of a thought.
> 
> ...


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## marriedat19 (Mar 28, 2012)

Honestly, I think that your wife has made up her mind. You need to accept it, and move on. If you couldn't have great sex (or even okay sex) and were not able to talk to each other.. it wasn't the marriage either of you really wanted or needed. AN EXAMPLE I am a very extremely blunt person I just say what I mean when I mean it because it is what I am thinking at the time, now if I am with a man that is super shy and has his feelings hurt all the time, or super extreme and doesn't like my boldness.. I tend to change too, and the person I become I do not like because it's not the best version of myself. If she feels like she is not the best version of herself then that really only leads you to find the best version of yourself and to find someone that truly brings that out in you.


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