# Don't know what to do - can you give some advice?



## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

First off I should say I know this is going to be a very long post, and I hope that you will bear with me and read to the end. Second, I know that I am at fault for the problems my marriage is having. That is not the question. I was wrong, I cause the issues. I know that I probably deserve every harsh word, disparaging comment, and negative thought that people give, both here and in "real life". I simply beg again, please read to the end. 

My husband and I have been married for 7 years, together for 13. We have two children together, and I from my previous marriage. We are in our late 30's. Just for history and understanding, I should say that my previous marriage was very abusive both verbally and physically. In the past I have had issues telling the truth. I do not condone this behavior in anyway and do not try to make excuses for it. The only thing I can say is that when faced with confrontation I try to say what I think will stop the fight. 

In August of 2016 text messages were discovered on my phone by my husband. A large portion of these messages had been deleted, only a few remained. They were from a younger man whom I had met and started talking with. He worked at a local store that I frequented. We began talking just because we passed it other often in the store. The text messages lasted only a few days, with the majority being the first. They were relatively innocent, with only some mild flirtatious tones. I deleted them because I knew I should not be having the conversation at all. I knew I was in the wrong. When I was approached about this I lied. I made up a story about why I was talking with the person and why the messages were deleted. It didn't take long for that to crumble and the lie was discovered. The truth was that I had been talking online to several men. Some old friends from high school, an old boyfriend (whom I had been asked not to contact anymore), and a few random people I met through social media. There was flirting, and conversations that I would not have been comfortable seeing my husband have with another woman. In the case of the ex-boyfriend we met a total of three times for coffee/lunch. There was no sex, and no physical contact other than a hug at any of these meetings. However, my husband had forbidden me to speak to this person again, so I hid this contact as well. 

When things started to come out, I did not want my husband learning that I had been talking to these people. I was embarrassed of my actions, ashamed, and knew that it was wrong and didn't want him to find out the extent of what probably should be called emotional affairs. So again I lied. I initially said that I had some innocent contact with only a handful of people. I made up names and situations that never happened, in the hopes that he would believe this and not dig further to find out the extent of the calls and messages. One person was local and he wanted to go talk to him. I had to reveal at that point that I had made that encounter up and that it never happened. My phone records were accessed and it showed many many messages and calls to several numbers. He continued to press me for "what else" happened. I said nothing, but he did not believe me. We had many long, sleepless nights of fighting and going back and forth. The more he pressed me, the more lies I told. I made up stories about physical affairs that never happened. I said I sent pictures to people that never existed. All the while knowing it was not true. As this continued family and friends started to get involved. They were all told the same stories of the things I claimed I did. Somewhere in my mind, if I said something bad enough I believed that he would eventually believe me. Everyone, including my husband kept saying just tell everything and we will get through it. Just tell the whole truth and we will work it out. But I just kept lying because when I would say something he would be hurt, but he would say that it was getting better because I was telling him things he could believe. 

At some point everything started to get worse. My husbands attitude toward me changed. Daily I was being called names, and was told how much of a terrible wh*[email protected] and s#*! I was. I accepted this because I had lied and I knew that I deserved whatever it took for him to get his anger out. And I had lied so much, asked other people to lie for me to match my stories, that I did not see a way to come back from it. How would be believe me now if I said I had made it all up. I worked very hard to tell everyone the same things. And even though the stories didn't exactly line up at times, and kept changing when I was questioned, I just kept digging this Grand Canyon sized hole. At one point he asked me to say it was all a lie and that he would believe me and I saw my way out. I told him yes that it all was a lie, that I had made it up because he kept pushing and pushing and never believed me when I said there was nothing else to tell, and for a while it seemed that he did believe me. Then one day he started asking questions again about why I said this or that, or why I would have ever thought that telling him I had slept with someone was better than saying that I was talking to other men. I tried to explain that I just wanted him to stop screaming at me and that when I said something be believed the yelling stopped. I never meant for it to get so far or so deep. 

So now we sit, quickly coming up on a year, and nothing has changed. Now I am a lying wh*[email protected] and s#*! and he says that I have ruined his life. I have maintained that I was lying and that it was all made up and of course he does not believe it (and I cant really blame him). He says he wants proof that I lied and that's the only way he will ever believe me again. Until then I will continue to be just the lying wh*[email protected] that he has to live with to raise the kids that he does not even believe are his anymore. I don't know how to prove to him that I was lying. He has spoken to three of the men. 2 of them told him the truth and said he talked, and only talked but he thinks I told them what to say. The third person, the ex that is the hardest for him to deal with, I did ask to lie for me and he did. So my husband believes his story is the truth. The only physical evidence were the phone records showing the conversations. I attempted to get transcript printouts of these but the service provider says that is impossible. I have changed my phone number at the suggest of a mutual friend so now even the records we did have are gone. I have deleted every social media account and email address at the suggestion of this same friend, which my husband agreed to, in an effort him that I am truly sorry and am giving up talking to these people. I have stopped all contact with everyone other than people that he approves of, close friends and family. Every day I am trying to show him that I am sorry for my actions and that I love him, and he says that he does not believe me. He says that if I ever loved him I would never had made up the lies and that he does not think they are lies and for the rest of his life he will think they are the truth. 

He seems to tell me one thing, but tell mutual friends something else. He tells them he wants to trust me, and he loves me, and that I need to talk with people and that going and doing things with a mutual girlfriend will help to start building trust. But he tells me that if I go out make sure I "wash the funk" away before I come home. And that he knows I am just going to sleep with whoever I can find because he doesn't make me happy so he does not care what I do or who I do it with. I don't understand why he says two totally different things. It gives me hope that maybe he is just angry with me and that in time it will pass after he believes I have paid enough for what I did. That's why I'm still here. 

As for why I was speaking to these other people in the first place - I could make excuses but I wont. I was lonely and wanted attention. I did not feel that my husband *wanted* to talk to me. In my eyes I thought I was an inconvenience or a bother to him, and that I only ever made mistakes that upset him. He says that this is insane and that I should have known how much he loved me and that I was blowing everything out of proportion. And I guess he is right. I probably did take comments and things that happened a bit to much to heart. I didn't mean to. At any rate, the things that happened are my fault, and my fault alone because I chose to speak to these men. And everyday my husband and I argue about it and how until I can provide proof of my innocence that I will be nothing to him. I want to give him proof but he will not accept the words of others - because he thinks the will lie for me, and I can not give him phone transcripts, and all of my email accounts and social media have been deleted - I have no proof to give. I don't know what to do. I love my husband with all my heart. I love my family and I am willing to do anything to make things right again. So here I am - asking people who had been though this sort of thing - will his anger ever go away? Is there a way to get past this? Have I done too much damage? Should I simply accept that I ruined my marriage and walk away myself and leave him to hopefully be happy without me? I don't know what to do anymore. 

Again, I know this is my fault and I deserve all of the blame, but ask that, if you can, please share a little advice. Thank you for taking the time to read this.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

You're in a situation where you can never prove you didn't go further than text messages and no sex lunch meetings. Here's the problem that you know, your husband knows, and I know. You were seeking out "conversations" and meet up with these other guys because you felt him and your marriage was not fulfilling. You wanted more excitement than your lifestyle with him provided. I wouldn't exactly say its your fault because what you want out of life is inherent in you. If you were happy with him, you wouldn't desire these outside interest. (and you may as well face the fact that he knows that when a woman, or a man, need friendships with the opposite sex to satisfy a need they ain't getting at home, its just a matter of time before sex enters the picture.)


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

you really need to get into IC about lying way too much for an adult and you need to learn what you want out of life. You need MC, because you have breached his trust so bad, it probably won't ever come back on its own. Based on what your H knows, he has to be thinking that you did have sex with multiple OM and if you put yourself in his shoes, you would probably agree that he has to assume that is the case. Based on what you wrote, he truly has to be considering filing for a D. You could discuss options, like polygraph, to help show that you did this and not that, but he may be too far gone for that. He says multiple different things because he is on a roller coaster of emotions, primarily because he doesn't know the truth and is having a hard time reconciling the you he knew and the you, you apparently really are (or he believes you are)

Good luck...


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Polygraph with questions he sets and individual counselling for you.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

LostLove1 said:


> Again, I know this is my fault and I deserve all of the blame, but ask that, if you can, please share a little advice. Thank you for taking the time to read this.


For your husband, resentment has replaced the initial anger. Building back trust not only takes a lot of time and effort, but requires both parties to be part of the process. Your husband is not ready yet because he doesn't know if he has the full truth regarding both what happened and your motivation for your past actions. He also doesn't trust you now and never will trust you again at the same level as before this all happened. You should ask him if he is willing to go to marriage counselling with you. The counselors won't have any answers that you don't already have, but they do seem to help referee the discussions that you and your husband need to have.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

LostLove,

Your H needs to contact the man you met for lunches wife or girlfriend and tell her what's up. Along with the other people you were talking to.

Tamat


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> LostLove,
> 
> Your H needs to contact the man you met for lunches wife or girlfriend and tell her what's up. Along with the other people you were talking to.
> 
> Tamat


I believe he would have, but shortly after all this came out he and his wife moved overseas (back to her home). He has all of the contact information, which I willingly gave him from the people I was talking to. I only know of a few people he has spoken to, of course I may not know everything.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Maybe you should write down everything good and bad on paper. Then tell him you're willing to take a polygraph on everything you wrote and whatever else he deems necessary. Trust is crucial for a healthy marriage.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

naiveonedave said:


> you really need to get into IC about lying way too much for an adult and you need to learn what you want out of life. You need MC, because you have breached his trust so bad, it probably won't ever come back on its own. Based on what your H knows, he has to be thinking that you did have sex with multiple OM and if you put yourself in his shoes, you would probably agree that he has to assume that is the case. Based on what you wrote, he truly has to be considering filing for a D. You could discuss options, like polygraph, to help show that you did this and not that, but he may be too far gone for that. He says multiple different things because he is on a roller coaster of emotions, primarily because he doesn't know the truth and is having a hard time reconciling the you he knew and the you, you apparently really are (or he believes you are)
> 
> Good luck...


As far as divorce goes, it was talked about in the beginning. He even packed his things a couple of times and left but he came back. This gives me some hope that maybe its not too far gone, but at this point I don't know. I understand that I have dropped a bomb on our lives and that time and work on my part are what it will take, assuming he still wants to be here. I had not though of a polygraph before. Is this something I need to get a lawyer or someone to have it done? 

I have looked into counseling, individual and couples. He went with one session at the MC with me. He said that he did not feel it would help because the MC could not make me be honest anymore than he could. We never went back. I could see the same person individually, but I am not sure that it would help. I know the reason for my lying. I just have to figure out how to make it stop. I am a chicken$7*t when it comes to any time of confrontation. I have to learn to stand up and not be afraid of what will happen. until recently this man never harmed me, so I should have no reason to be afraid of his reaction. I just have to keep telling myself that.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I am going to say that your only hope here is to polygraph and pray that he accepts the results. Why, in the name of all that is holy would you lie and say your affairs were physical? Am I stupid? Have I missed something? What would be accomplished by saying this to a spouse unless you are/were suicidal/self-destructive/fubar/???!!!???. I'm sorry, but you committed marital suicide. The only way to resurrect the corpse is full and total truth in a polygraph situation.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

Taxman said:


> I am going to say that your only hope here is to polygraph and pray that he accepts the results. Why, in the name of all that is holy would you lie and say your affairs were physical? Am I stupid? Have I missed something? What would be accomplished by saying this to a spouse unless you are/were suicidal/self-destructive/fubar/???!!!???. I'm sorry, but you committed marital suicide. The only way to resurrect the corpse is full and total truth in a polygraph situation.


I know that it does not make sense. That's part of what he keeps asking me - Why I would say something that wasn't true - All I can say is when I first opened my mouth a lie came out. And after that it just kept getting bigger. I tried to stop it and say there was nothing else to tell, but he kept on and he was so angry and I was scared. That's no good excuse - I know that, but its all I can say. 

I will try to look into how to have a polygraph test done, and ask him if that would be proof enough for him.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Let him pick out the polygraph provider. Or better yet go on Maury Povich.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Your husband shouldn't meet any of the men you may or may not have met with. He may be violent with them.

This is your fault. I agree with you. You really messed up.

My wife is a compulsive liar. She has had a lot of counseling, but she is a compulsive liar and cannot get over it. The counseling was not to address the lying, oh well. We do have a lot of systems in place to deal with her. I do keep track of her very closely.

For instance, my wife would not have had the opportunity to have a lunch meeting with an ex-boyfriend. Besides the fact she does not have an ex-boyfriend, I know where she is more closely than that, and I control were she goes. Yes, I am very controlling. She seems to thrive on that, though. She actually requires it. Perhaps it's all some weird package deal.

She says to point out we have been married 43 years.

When I first discovered my wife lies, it was tense. She just cannot tell the truth, really. She will always say what she thinks is required, with no concern for truth. The concept of truth was beaten out of her when she was young. She was taught to just say what she was supposed to say. So every question is a test to see if she can figure out what she needs to say.

I will say in my wife's case she never lies in any consistent pattern. Every question is it's own frightening universe to her. So what answer I get depends how I ask.

But I do know the anger and disappointment, pain and utter hopelessness that your lying has created in your husband. Without truth, what is there, really?

For me to accept my wife's bend of reality I had to rethink reality. Just what matters, what really is anything? Very metaphysical. I know, crazy stuff. But I did want a solution. In the end I decided the only thing I could ever really know was what I saw with my own eyes, anyway. Even if she told me the absolute truth, would it mean I knew it, unless I had seen it myself? Yes, this is metaphysical stuff, top of the mountain garbage.

That's what it took for me to come to terms with it.

In the end the only thing I can know is what I can see, taste, touch, feel, with my own body, my own senses. Anything else, everything else, could be a lie. So what? The whole world could be a stage set up to fool me! So what? As long as what I have when I need it is there, and I can have all I need, that is what I need.

Yeah, very metaphysical ****. 

My choice was to find a way to accept my wife as she is, or move on. I love my wife. 

But I keep track of her, I control her, I micromanage her. I own her every move. For some reason she likes that. It gives her comfort to know I am always keeping track of her. Somehow we have found a reasonable compromise for us. 

The important thing is I have learned to not worry about the things I cannot see. That, I did. That was on me.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Let him design the questions and pick the provider. Do not do anything that would in his mind compromise the test. Put it to him this way: I want to alleviate your fears, anger and beliefs. I did not have any physical relations with the men I originally told you. In order to help you believe me, I want to take a lie detector test like they have on TV. Here is the page in the yellow pages. I would like to do this as soon as possible. I know you don't believe me, and it is hurting us. I hope this test proves to you just how stupid I am in this regard.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

By the way. Lie detector tests could be useful if your husband will believe it.

You might suggest hypnosis. One of Mary's two psychiatrists used hypnosis, and I think the results were good. It was after that her shrink told me about her past in regards to her compulsion to lie, and the belief she was not going to be able to be cured of it any time soon, if ever.

If your husband is willing to allow you two to keep trying to find a way forward, it will be long and hard. Good luck.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

LostLove,

You should also be honest with your H about your emotional state during this time, you may have lost all love for your H during this time and felt obsessed and ascribed all kinds of good virtues to these men you were talking to. 

It's likely you were in an emotional affair and your feeling for your H may not have returned for him even now. He may sense it and that may be the cause of his despair. 

Tamat


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Your husband shouldn't meet any of the men you may or may not have met with. He may be violent with them.
> 
> This is your fault. I agree with you. You really messed up.
> 
> ...


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> You should also be honest with your H about your emotional state during this time, you may have lost all love for your H during this time and felt obsessed and ascribed all kinds of good virtues to these men you were talking to.
> 
> It's likely you were in an emotional affair and your feeling for your H may not have returned for him even now. He may sense it and that may be the cause of his despair.
> 
> Tamat


My emotional state - I felt alone and like I was a bother to him and I wanted someone to talk to that listened to me. And instead of coming to him and telling him my feelings I was afraid I would upset him, and that he would be mad at me, so I started talking to the others. I will admit that talking to people that seemed to care made me feel better I agree that I probably gave these people good virtues. 

He often says that he is not what makes me happy, they do, and that they are what I want. I have tried to explain that's not it. That I do want him and he does make me happy but..again with the trust issues. I think that even when I was talking to the others, I always wanted things to be right at home. I wanted so much to make things right with him, but I didn't know how and we kept drifting apart and these people were here and offering friendship. I read one of the sticky posts here about boundaries (on the main page) and it made a lot of sense to me. 

I know that I love my husband. I always have and always will I think, even if this doesn't work out the way I want.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife thrives on directions. Do this, do that, then the other thing.

But if I ask a question, she sometimes just goes into shock. It can be as simple as did she get gas for the car while she was out. Yes/No. But she can end up collapsing and crying, if I'm not careful.

I think every time I say be here, be there, be the other place, she feels loved. I expect her to take 1 hour at the store, and be back with these specific groceries, and she is all smiles, and jumps into my arms when she arrives home on time. If she is 15 minutes late she pages me to check in and explain. And she loves it.

We were married in 1973, she started counseling with a certified psychologist in 1979. The first time I met with them was to have the psychologist explain to me the importance of stepping up and taking control of Mary. Mary actually put her counselor up to that.

I have no idea how the lying fits into all of it. I do know a sad time was when I came home to Mary crying because our little girl had told our son to not listen to Mary because mommy always lied. And the trouble was, our daughter was right. Mary tries so hard, but no matter what, she just can't simply tell the truth. Damn the torpedoes, full truth ahead. 

She goes through that whole checklist of why did someone ask, and how will people take the answer, and what is the best answer to make everyone happy, that you described. And in Mary's case, she can actually believe the answer she gives. Sometimes she has no clue she is lying. She gets confused about what was real and what was made up. It makes it very tough. Or used to.

Now, I just don't care. We cope, and I take care of her. I own her, and she owns my heart.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

LL,

One thing to keep in mind is that the state of the marriage was 50% you and 50% him. Your contact with these people was 100% on you so try not to mix the two. 

The fact that you were communicating with someone you were once intimate with, if that is the case, makes it very difficult to believe nothing physical happened from a man perspective.

Tamat


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Lostlove1

I may have missed this, but this has been one year since your husband found out, correct? For how long have you talked to your ex, and for how long after you were supposed to stop? How long did you converse with the other men? 

Destroying trust is easy to do, yet you went on some sort of rampage and lied for possibly years. You then thought that wasn't enough and coerced others to help you lie. Now you have how many liars lying to your husband? Has anyone told him the actual truth? Do you see why he is not even able to believe anything as now multiple people have lied? Does conspiracy against your husband come to your mind yet? I'm not trying to be harsh, but how would you react to this? Would you not feel like your picture is next to the word fool in the dictionary? 

Your only hope is a lie detector, and you cannot set this up, you coerced enough people to betray him. Ask him to set it up, ask him to set the questions you will be asked. Don't even do a search for lie detector agency's in your area, if he sees the search he will think you searched for how to best one. You have enough going against you, don't lose out on your possible only chance to prove you're now telling the truth. 

Get yourself into individual counseling, set up marriage counseling next. Best of luck to you.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife, Mary, says to add that she especially identifies with this statement of yours:

"But if I could live the rest of my life without someone ever having to question my actions for something again I would be very happy."

My wife's stated wish, often stated, is to have me never again ask her a question. Ever. About anything.

And, I do try to remember, really, I do. But sometimes I slip up, and make mistakes. Then she gets that deer in the headlights look, and I apologize, and grab her and hold her, and hope she is okay.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

LostLove1 said:


> As far as divorce goes, it was talked about in the beginning. He even packed his things a couple of times and left but he came back. This gives me some hope that maybe its not too far gone, but at this point I don't know. I understand that I have dropped a bomb on our lives and that time and work on my part are what it will take, assuming he still wants to be here. I had not though of a polygraph before. Is this something I need to get a lawyer or someone to have it done?
> 
> I have looked into counseling, individual and couples. He went with one session at the MC with me. He said that he did not feel it would help because the MC could not make me be honest anymore than he could. We never went back. I could see the same person individually, but I am not sure that it would help. I know the reason for my lying. I just have to figure out how to make it stop. I am a chicken$7*t when it comes to any time of confrontation. I have to learn to stand up and not be afraid of what will happen. until recently this man never harmed me, so I should have no reason to be afraid of his reaction. I just have to keep telling myself that.


Your H is not ready for MC yet, as he still thinks you are lying to him. I think a good 1st step would be to arrange polygraph. Google it for where you live (stay away from lawyers, it may make your H think you are pursuing D). A second good step would be to show him that you are going to IC to 'learn' how to not lie. I think your lying is bigger than you do, so does your H. He won't let you into his inner circle until he can trust you again. Overcoming this pack of lies is not going to be easy. 

Other good steps would be to start being much more transparent about what think and feel....


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Let me add, but not to be pessimistic, realistic.

Mary was in counseling from 1979 to 1987, with a psychologist and then 2 different shrinks. Her main issue was panic attacks, which she did learn a lot about and made some progress toward solving during that time. They did work on her lying. She attended about 100 sessions.

None of the counselors held out much hope she would be able to get over her compulsion to lie. The suggestion was for me to learn coping mechanisms, and her to accept whatever was needed. I am sure our coping mechanisms went much farther than any of us imagined, but once we were started down that road, and Mary showed her response, I figured why not.

Please be well.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

drifting on said:


> Lostlove1
> 
> I may have missed this, but this has been one year since your husband found out, correct? For how long have you talked to your ex, and for how long after you were supposed to stop? How long did you converse with the other men?
> 
> .


This all came out in August of 2016, so not a year yet but getting close. When my husband and I met in 2003 I was still very good friends with the ex who had moved overseas. He would call and we would talk occasionally. This upset my husband and he told me to chose one or the other. I picked him and didn't talk to the ex for many many years. In the first part of 2015 the ex moved back into the states and sent me an email. We started talking, slowly at first then more. We saw each other two times in 2015 and once in early 2016. We continued to talk but I refused to see him again because I felt like things were getting to deep and going somewhere I didn't want to go. 

As for the other people, they were mostly old friends that I reconnected with on social media. Conversations with any specific person spanned for a few days to a few months, depending, but it all took place between 2015 and mid way through 2016. So about a year and a half in total. 

As far as getting others to lie to him, I did ask one person to lie for me. Of the rest I have made sure I have had zero contact with them. In fact for the most part I had stopped talking to the majority of them before this came out. The bulk of the conversations were late 2015 early 2016 according to the phone records. I understand how and why he does not believe anything I say. You are not being overly harsh - you are being truthful and I deserve it. I asked for help and knew what that would involve. Judgement being first and foremost.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

naiveonedave said:


> Your H is not ready for MC yet, as he still thinks you are lying to him.


... and her BH is likely correct. No sane H would believe that his WW was lying when she admitted to PA's. We all understand that a WW's likely first instinct is to minimize, so when she admits up front that it was a PA, then it was likely more than one and often. Sorry LL, but your story is just not believable and your BH isn't buying what you are selling.

The others are correct ... probably the only chance you have is passing a polygraph test, but even then, he will always have doubts and will never trust you again.

The posters here are giving you the benefit of the doubt ... I can just imagine what the responses would be if it were your BH here posting his side of the story and asking for advice if you were believable.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

LostLove1 said:


> This all came out in August of 2016, so not a year yet but getting close. When my husband and I met in 2003 I was still very good friends with the ex who had moved overseas. He would call and we would talk occasionally. This upset my husband and he told me to chose one or the other. I picked him and didn't talk to the ex for many many years. In the first part of 2015 the ex moved back into the states and sent me an email. We started talking, slowly at first then more. We saw each other two times in 2015 and once in early 2016. We continued to talk but I refused to see him again because I felt like things were getting to deep and going somewhere I didn't want to go.


I am 100% sure your H is 100% sure that you and your ex did the deed the 3 times you met. he is probably having mind movies of the porn star life you lived during those occasions, even if it never happened. 

History, extensive messaging, being adults, being exes and being together, it would be insane to think nothing physical happened. it is what adults in love (EA=lurve) do.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

naiveonedave said:


> A second good step would be to show him that you are going to IC to 'learn' how to not lie. I think your lying is bigger than you do, so does your H.
> 
> Other good steps would be to start being much more transparent about what think and feel....


I can contact someone about IC again and see what happens. I worry that he will not believe that I am with a councilor unless he is there, so that is an issue. In the past he knew I had an issue with lying. He never understood it, but he knew it was there. Maybe it is bigger than I think - I just worry that I walk into IC and suddenly everything I do today is because of A B and C that happened when I was a kid. That feel like is sort of dodging the problem and trying to blame someone else, and I don't want anyone to think I am doing that. 

I am trying to be more open about how I feel. Its very hard for me to express things. I get tongue tied and frustrated and then he gets frustrated with me because I am shuttering and looking like an idiot. So I started writing things down. It gives me time to think about what I want to say and how to word it without him interrupting me. It seemed to work for a while then I stopped writing because he said I was just saying the say things over and over. But I can try again.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

He likely doesn't believe that you've not physically cheated w/ any of these guys.

Hell, I don't.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

The writing does not work for Mary.

Two things.

One, she has too long to consider what to write, so is able to construct what to write to effect. In other words, lie.

I would never believe anything she writes, because of the above.

So, I suspect at this point, and forever more, your husband will view anything you write as just better, more thought out, contrived lies.

There was a time I had her write many things down, and seal up what she wrote in envelopes. I would keep them and then later when she said something contradictory, I would have her write that down, then pull out the old note, unseal it in front of her, have her read both notes side by side, and try to explain. That went over like a lead balloon. That was my idea. That was a very bad idea. Confronting Mary with the truth never worked, for us. I never really knew which version was the truth anyway.

All it ever achieved was Mary would run away with both copies, burn them, and cry her heart out for hours. 

That was back in the seventies. I still would not believe anything she writes, today. Unless it's meant to be fantasy.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

So, you got your ex to lie to your husband. I think you're lying to us to be honest. I think you did more than "hug." Of course your husband won't believe you, can you blame him? I don't know how you survive this. If the marriage was great to begin with, then your only hope is expensive and time consuming marriage counseling. If the marriage sucked before this, then just call it a learning lesson and marry another lier next round. Free your husband from his pain and misery.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

MyRevelation said:


> ... and her BH is likely correct. No sane H would believe that his WW was lying when she admitted to PA's. We all understand that a WW's likely first instinct is to minimize, so when she admits up front that it was a PA, then it was likely more than one and often.
> 
> The posters here are giving you the benefit of the doubt ... I can just imagine what the responses would be if it were your BH here posting his side of the story and asking for advice if you were believable.


Maybe I should clarify - I did not say I had a physical affair in the very beginning. I admitted to talking to a few people, and flirting. He pressed me for more information, I tried to say there was nothing else. He didn't believe me and got phone records. So then I had to explain those, and I lied a little about them, trying to make it seem less than it was but eventually came out with all the names. He continued to ask "what else" and I would say nothing and he would get upset and say I was lying. We would fight for hours, sometimes all night about it, him threatening to leave if I didn't tell him something else right then, or threatening physical harm to himself if I didn't tell him everything. That's when I started making things up. And the stories never matched up so the lies kept getting more and more complex and he kept asking more questions and the lies kept coming.

Yes I lied in the very beginning on day one, because I was trying to make it sound less than it was. Trying to get him not to see the extent of who I had talked to. Particularly the ex because I knew that would be a very big deal. I thought if I gave a little information, even if it wasn't true, that it would be bad for while then it would blow over. I had already stopped talking to him and pretty much everyone else so it would just go away and I could finally start making things right. 

I am sure what people would say if he was posting: "She is lying, get out now. What are you still there? She is an evil person who only did this to hurt you, why else would she put you though this. You deserve better, take your kids and everything you can and never look back. You should have called a lawyer in August." I know how it looks, I know why its hard to believe.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> Of course your husband won't believe you, can you blame him? .


No I can't. What is why I came here, to try and get an outside, anonymous opinion on what I should do next. I'm tired of hurting him, and want to fix it one way or another.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> The writing does not work for Mary.
> 
> 
> So, I suspect at this point, and forever more, your husband will view anything you write as just better, more thought out, contrived lies.
> .


I can see that.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

I've been in your husbands shoes OP and I can tell you you've pushed him to the verge of insanity. You have to play a tight game (oh yes with military precision) but let that slip and you're not only fighting them, but everyone else they're manipulating against you.

I commend WilliamM for sticking it out and I know exactly those irresistible glassy dilated pupils just before the malfunction. I took to clapping to snap her out but it failed in the end.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

It is my opinion, as the recipient of lies, once someone has lied such as you have, and do, you have to face the fact there are some bridges you cannot mend.

Personally I accept why you do what you do. As I tell my wife, I do not understand it, but I accept it. 

I am bald. She would rather I had a full head of hair. She accepts that about me. I am also a very narcissistic ego maniacal genius. Mary has to put up with that, too. 

Every marriage has it's problems. People say you have to be able to trust your spouse or you can't love them. I do not agree. Mary is a compulsive liar. Since she lies so much, I cannot trust her. But I love her, with all my heart I love her. I try to keep her out of situations such that I might feel a need to question her about anything.

Luckily for me, she seems to have better boundary control than you, but she is swaddled much more closely than you are. So perhaps she feels very secure. 

All of Mary's counselors felt her compulsive lying should not make me love her less. They did understand it means I cannot trust her.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

TAM2013 said:


> I've been in your husbands shoes OP and I can tell you you've pushed him to the verge of insanity. You have to play a tight game (oh yes with military precision) but let that slip and you're not only fighting them, but everyone else they're manipulating against you.QUOTE]
> 
> I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand part of your post. You mean if he slips or if I slip? The manipulating part is what confused me. I'm sorry.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

No matter what get some IC to help you issues. Something is wrong that your first instinct is to lie in the way that you did. You may thing you have it under control now but that doesn't mean you will forever without some coping strategy.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> It is my opinion, as the recipient of lies, once someone has lied such as you have, and do, you have to face the fact there are some bridges you cannot mend.


So it kinda sounds like the general opinion is I have crossed the point of no return. And if my some "grace of god" miracle I can get him to agree to accept a lie detector as proof that is my single and only salvation.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

*will his anger ever go away?*
Not without some MAJOR changes in BOTH of you.


*Is there a way to get past this?*
You rejected him and replaced him and you proved that he was not your one and only. You being with your ex did major damage. There is a way to get better; what you have done he will never forget.

*Have I done too much damage?*
NO, but BOTH of you will have to get LOTS of good help then DO IT for a long time You can recover to a degree

*Should I simply accept that I ruined my marriage and walk away myself and leave him to hopefully be happy without me?*
You should do everything you can (polygraph, intense long term counseling, Do what good counselling advices, get yourself built back up, make your husband number one to the extreme, etc.). If your husband is able to gain a LOT more trust in you and decides that he is going to do everything that he can to make your marriage work better, then your marriage can be good, do not expect a great marriage, that is gone. If all that fails then walk away and continue to work on yourself.


*What is your plan and what are you doing right now?*


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

sokillme said:


> No matter what get some IC to help you issues. Something is wrong that your first instinct is to lie in the way that you did. You may thing you have it under control now but that doesn't mean you will forever without some coping strategy.


Its not a bad idea I guess. I just have never been a "go to counseling" type of person. I guess I will be now, one way or another.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LostLove1 said:


> As for why I was speaking to these other people in the first place - I could make excuses but I wont. I was lonely and wanted attention. I did not feel that my husband *wanted* to talk to me. In my eyes I thought I was an inconvenience or a bother to him, and that I only ever made mistakes that upset him. He says that this is insane and that I should have known how much he loved me and that I was blowing everything out of proportion. And I guess he is right. I probably did take comments and things that happened a bit to much to heart. I didn't mean to. At any rate, the things that happened are my fault, and my fault alone because I chose to speak to these men. And everyday my husband and I argue about it and how until I can provide proof of my innocence that I will be nothing to him. I want to give him proof but he will not accept the words of others - because he thinks the will lie for me, and I can not give him phone transcripts, and all of my email accounts and social media have been deleted - I have no proof to give. I don't know what to do. I love my husband with all my heart. I love my family and I am willing to do anything to make things right again. So here I am - asking people who had been though this sort of thing - will his anger ever go away? Is there a way to get past this? Have I done too much damage? Should I simply accept that I ruined my marriage and walk away myself and leave him to hopefully be happy without me? I don't know what to do anymore.
> 
> Again, I know this is my fault and I deserve all of the blame, but ask that, if you can, please share a little advice. Thank you for taking the time to read this.


Thank you for posting. It takes a lot of courage to come on to TAM and face this crowd. We are tough, as you may have noticed, but hang in there. 

I want to call b.s. on the above paragraph. You didn't cheat on your husband with these men because you were lonely...BUT you did want attention. You seem to be the kind of person who needs constant ego gratification and feeding from several men at once. The reason for this is because you lack a sense of identity and personal worth. You don't value yourself, so you crave value from others, except the value you get from these men, including your ex, is false value, because in the end all they want is to get down your pants. 

It is going to be very difficult for us to help you since you have already admitted you are a pathological liar. If this is truly the case, then you have a lot of work to do in I.C. Lots of work. And yes it is unfortunate that your husband doesn't believe anything you say, and so it is going to make your recovery 10x more difficult. Digging deep within yourself for your "whys" are going to be the biggest chore, and hard, brutal honesty from this point onward is the only thing that is going to have a chance at saving your marriage. 

My advice to you is work on yourself for you, not for your husband or anyone else. But do not hold out hope for reconciliation. If I were your husband we would already be divorced. If I were him I would not believe for one second you did not have sex with the ex when the two of you hooked up on those three occasions. Really, I honestly believe this to be impossible. No human beings talk about sex, take great pains in meeting up, and then not go through with sex. Quit lying to us. 

That's the first thing you need to do. Quit lying. It's obvious, it's silly and it makes you look like a fool. And that's to a bunch of strangers. Imagine what your husband thinks. 

Please stick around and talk to us. Just stop the lying.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

*What is your plan and what are you doing right now?*[/QUOTE]

What am I doing right now? I spend my days trying to talk to him. Trying to show him that I love him. There is a lot of hurt and anger and a lot of very mean things get said and done. I accept it all, knowing that I deserve it, and hoping that me staying proves that I want to be there. I do my best to show as much affection as possible. Every time he mentions one of the other guys in any way (and it does happy daily) I explain how wrong I was and how sorry I am. I kind of wake up each day hoping that today will be the day I figure out how to make him believe me again. And hoping its not the day he walks out. I spend time reading books, posts, anything I can find on how to repair a marriage. I try to make sure that everything out of my mouth is true. Even if I mess up and answer wrong to start with, I go back and change it immediately, to try and show that I'm working on changing. 

A plan? I didn't have one until people here mentioned polygraph. I want to try that. I want to see if he will even accept it and the ask him to set it up so he doesn't think I am trying to pull something over. I should look in counseling, even if he refuses to go with me. I am not sure it will help but I keep hearing it a lot. From a lot of different places, so it cant hurt I guess.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

LostLove1 said:


> So it kinda sounds like the general opinion is I have crossed the point of no return. And if my some "grace of god" miracle I can get him to agree to accept a lie detector as proof that is my single and only salvation.


He may not accept a lie detector test result, either. A compulsive liar can beat a lie detector. A lie detector is to sense the desire to deceive. If your desire is to please, and you become tense by simply having the questions asked, it essentially becomes useless.

That was why hypnosis was used on Mary.

And while you may not want your childhood brought up as your reason for why you are as you are, that is what they told me is Mary's reason.

Then the choice was for me to abandon her, or learn to cope with it.

I am not sure I ever learned the truth about anything. I am not sure Mary knows the truth about anything. 

Sometimes I think it may be like coping with an addiction. I keep her away from temptation by never asking her questions. I never allow her to get into any situations that make me feel the desire to ask any questions.

Even if I did wish to ask questions, I know it would be useless. She would freeze up, and if she did manage to not break down crying, all she would tell me is exactly what she thinks I want to hear. There is no chance she would tell me the truth. She would just go through that checklist, why am I asking, what do I want to hear, how might I interpret something she might say, etc, etc, etc. Truth? Never. 

All of this is a small price to pay for the love and honor she gives me every moment we are together.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You seem to be the kind of person who needs constant ego gratification and feeding from several men at once. The reason for this is because you lack a sense of identity and personal worth. You don't value yourself, so you crave value from others, except the value you get from these men, including your ex, is false value, because in the end all they want is to get down your pants.


This nails it but why would anyone lie about trivial stuff? Stuff that wasn't trying to cover this up?


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

LostLove1 said:


> No I can't. What is why I came here, to try and get an outside, anonymous opinion on what I should do next. *I'm tired of hurting him, *and want to fix it one way or another.


If the above bolded part is true, then set him free. Give him a D on his terms ... as long as they're reasonable ... and let him find someone that he can trust.

I know that's not what you say you want, (although you're actions have told a different story) but it is the result of what you caused. We've all made major life screw-ups that we have to endure, because we can't change the past no matter how much we wish we could. Just accept the consequences of your own actions and try to do better the next time.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LostLove1 said:


> What am I doing right now? I spend my days trying to talk to him. Trying to show him that I love him. There is a lot of hurt and anger and a lot of very mean things get said and done. I accept it all, knowing that I deserve it, and hoping that me staying proves that I want to be there. I do my best to show as much affection as possible. Every time he mentions one of the other guys in any way (and it does happy daily) I explain how wrong I was and how sorry I am. I kind of wake up each day hoping that today will be the day I figure out how to make him believe me again. And hoping its not the day he walks out. I spend time reading books, posts, anything I can find on how to repair a marriage. I try to make sure that everything out of my mouth is true. Even if I mess up and answer wrong to start with, I go back and change it immediately, to try and show that I'm working on changing.
> 
> A plan? I didn't have one until people here mentioned polygraph. I want to try that. I want to see if he will even accept it and the ask him to set it up so he doesn't think I am trying to pull something over. I should look in counseling, even if he refuses to go with me. I am not sure it will help but I keep hearing it a lot. From a lot of different places, so it cant hurt I guess.


This is all good. Make sure he gets written verification of everything you plan or do. 

From now until the foreseeable future, you need to act like you are on probation and hubby is your P.O. I do hope you did not take the affairs physical, and that the polygraph will prove it. 

Definitely get into counseling..... and not just feel-good counseling. You need to find a counselor who will make you work your issues, give you homework, hold you accountable and call you on your bullcrap.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

TAM2013 said:


> This nails it but why would anyone lie about trivial stuff? Stuff that wasn't trying to cover this up?


Conflict avoidance. Plain and simple. She cannot handle conflict.

Or better said...she was never taught how to argue with people in a constructive manner...or to stand up for herself and tell people how she is really feeling. My guess is OP is a people-pleaser who tries to keep everyone calm and satisfied.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> It is going to be very difficult for us to help you since you have already admitted you are a pathological liar.
> 
> Quit lying. It's obvious, it's silly and it makes you look like a fool. And that's to a bunch of strangers. Imagine what your husband thinks.
> 
> Please stick around and talk to us. Just stop the lying.


I actually excepted worse when I decided to write this out in a forum like this. No one has been nearly as bad as what I thought I would get. So I should be thankful for that. I know that its going to be hard from anyone to believe me given the story, and harder for anyone to want to help me. 

As for my reason for craving attention - that reason sounds a s good as any other. Not to sound rude or anything. I just really cant tell you why I felt the need to talk to so many different people. I can tell you that you are right about my sense of worth. I didn't think I was a great person to begin with, and now I am convinced that there is probably not anyone lower in the world. 

As to my lying to you, there is not much I can say to that. I am trying to very honest so that I can get real true help to repair the damage I have done. If you don't believe that I sat in a coffee shop for a hour and talked about the past with a ex twice, and at the mall for lunch once - you are in the majority. I will freely admit that each time we met it got more tense, flirting increased, and by the end of the 3rd trip I knew if I saw him again it would lead to sex. That's why I didn't see him again even though he asked.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

TAM2013 said:


> This nails it but why would anyone lie about trivial stuff? Stuff that wasn't trying to cover this up?



I honestly cant answer that. I don't know. I have always been that way. I just don't want anyone to be mad, or upset. I want to give the right answers and make everyone happy.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> Conflict avoidance. Plain and simple. She cannot handle conflict.
> 
> Or better said...she was never taught how to argue with people in a constructive manner...or to stand up for herself and tell people how she is really feeling. My guess is OP is a people-pleaser who tries to keep everyone calm and satisfied.


That is probably the trust statement anyone could ever say about me. I do whatever it takes to make other people happy.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LostLove1 said:


> I honestly cant answer that. I don't know. I have always been that way. *I just don't want anyone to be mad, or upset. I want to give the right answers and make everyone happy*.


You are a conflict avoider and people pleaser. Many wayward spouses share this trait. Don't feel bad. Millions of people are this way. 

Did you come from a family with violence or lots of fighting? Did you have a domineering parent?

The good news is that this trait is very fixable. Counseling with a counselor who knows how to deal with conflict avoidance is a big step. Also, there are seminars everywhere all the time where you can go and actually have professionals teach you how to be assertive, express yourself and argue your case without resorting to fighting. Its all part of learning to be brutally honest.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> He may not accept a lie detector test result, either. A compulsive liar can beat a lie detector. A lie detector is to sense the desire to deceive. If your desire is to please, and you become tense by simply having the questions asked, it essentially becomes useless.
> .


Well I really hope that's not the case, if so I don't have much at all.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

> The third person, the ex that is the hardest for him to deal with, I did ask to lie for me and he did.


What did he lie about exactly?

You know that even if you didn't do all the stuff you said you did you still had and emotional affair? That is bad enough.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You are making progress already LL.... keep talking to us. 

Remember, you can be honest with us. You are not going to run into us at work. You won't see us at the store. You don't have to look us in the eyes. There is no reason to be ashamed or avoidant with us. We are blips on your computer screen. 

And I for one think that what you did to your marriage is fixable, and I very often am the first to recommend divorce. But not in your case. Keep doing what you are doing, but get into counseling ASAP.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LostLove1 said:


> Having a question asked that I don't know the answer to is terrifying. It could be as simple as "Who adjusted the Air Conditioner?" and even if I didn't do it, I immediately feel responsible because someone touched it and I didn't know, that somehow I should have fixed it before it had to be mentioned, and how upset is this person about it being adjusted and what is their reaction going to be? How upset or angry the person is has a direct relation to how I am going to respond. I always feel I need to respond with what is expected or what they want to hear. I am sure that makes no sense to anyone. But if I could live the rest of my life without someone ever having to question my actions for something again I would be very happy. I do well in situations where things are laid out in a military like manner - do this, then do this, then go here and do that. I feel like when I am given choices I make the wrong ones. Anyway...


Yeah you need some help with this. What was your childhood like? Was bad news frowned upon in your childhood? Were you rewarded for lying?


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> You are a conflict avoider and people pleaser. Many wayward spouses share this trait. Don't feel bad. Millions of people are this way.
> 
> Did you come from a family with violence or lots of fighting? Did you have a domineering parent?
> 
> The good news is that this trait is very fixable. Counseling with a counselor who knows how to deal with conflict avoidance is a big step. Also, there are seminars everywhere all the time where you can go and actually have professionals teach you how to be assertive, express yourself and argue your case without resorting to fighting. Its all part of learning to be brutally honest.


My family sucked. There was a lot of fighting, a lot of mental, physical, and sexual abuse, and a lot of just general dysfunction. My father got what he wanted, when he wanted it, and it didn't matter what that was. I learned how to not upset him so that everyone had a better day. But saying that is why I am the way I am today is a copout isn't it? I know the difference between right and wrong. I know its wrong to lie. Sometimes I mean to tell the truth and before I can stop myself I'm saying something else. Then I don't want to get into trouble, or make someone mad so I just go with it. One of the biggest things my husband used to get upset about was me letting people walk all over me. He couldn't understand why I never stood up for myself. I kept trying to tell him it just wasn't worth the fight. He still doesn't understand what I was trying to say.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

sokillme said:


> You know that even if you didn't do all the stuff you said you did you still had and emotional affair? That is bad enough.


Yes I know that the emotional affair is bad enough. Maybe in some ways worse. Because a PA could be just physical - no emotional attachment. And while I don't think I loved any of the people I talked to - I had an emotional attachment to them.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

LostLove1 said:


> My family sucked. There was a lot of fighting, a lot of mental, physical, and sexual abuse, and a lot of just general dysfunction. My father got what he wanted, when he wanted it, and it didn't matter what that was. I learned how to not upset him so that everyone had a better day. But saying that is why I am the way I am today is a copout isn't it? I know the difference between right and wrong. I know its wrong to lie. Sometimes I mean to tell the truth and before I can stop myself I'm saying something else. Then I don't want to get into trouble, or make someone mad so I just go with it. One of the biggest things my husband used to get upset about was me letting people walk all over me. He couldn't understand why I never stood up for myself. I kept trying to tell him it just wasn't worth the fight. He still doesn't understand what I was trying to say.


NOT A COP OUT, OP. THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM.

Does your husband know all this?


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Keke24 said:


> Polygraph with questions he sets and individual counselling for you.


Theres your answer. Not really complicated. Call his bluff and set it up.

If you're lying to us here about no physical sex, no advice here is going to help you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

WilliamM said:


> Let me add, but not to be pessimistic, realistic.
> 
> Mary was in counseling from 1979 to 1987, with a psychologist and then 2 different shrinks. Her main issue was panic attacks, which she did learn a lot about and made some progress toward solving during that time. They did work on her lying. She attended about 100 sessions.
> 
> ...


This is a very difficult life though. I doubt most people would want to live like this. OP I think a better approach would be to try your damnedest to change, because honestly I think this kind of relationship described here is one in a million. I think if you go to him and basically say, well we have to have a relationship where you can never question me because I will never tell the truth, I doubt he is going to want to stay with that.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

LL,

Does your H have anyone he can confide in for support?

Oftentimes men cannot bear the shame of having their wives cheat on them and they hold it all in which is very unhealthy without an outlet. 

He has you to talk to, but in this circumstance it's like having your rapist for your therapist. 

Tamat


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

LL,

Even if your H doubts the efficacy of polygraphs your willingness to do so may help him. 

Have you written out a timeline for what went on it may help him solidify the order of events in his mind rather than having a mixed collection of details.

Tamat


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LostLove1 said:


> My family sucked. There was a lot of fighting, a lot of mental, physical, and sexual abuse, and a lot of just general dysfunction. My father got what he wanted, when he wanted it, and it didn't matter what that was. I learned how to not upset him so that everyone had a better day. But saying that is why I am the way I am today is a copout isn't it? I know the difference between right and wrong. I know its wrong to lie. Sometimes I mean to tell the truth and before I can stop myself I'm saying something else. Then I don't want to get into trouble, or make someone mad so I just go with it. One of the biggest things my husband used to get upset about was me letting people walk all over me. He couldn't understand why I never stood up for myself. I kept trying to tell him it just wasn't worth the fight. He still doesn't understand what I was trying to say.


This doesn't excuse you for doing wrong but knowing and learning how to cope with this can help you not do wrong in the future. Just like learning to live with some other sort of impediment.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LostLove1 said:


> Yes I know that the emotional affair is bad enough. Maybe in some ways worse. Because a PA could be just physical - no emotional attachment. And while I don't think I loved any of the people I talked to - I had an emotional attachment to them.


You never answered the first question in this post.



> The third person, the ex that is the hardest for him to deal with, I did ask to lie for me and he did.


Maybe this was answered somewhere else but what did you ask your ex to lie about exactly? If so have you cleared up that this was a lie too?


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## Thestarsarefalling (Apr 16, 2017)

Seems like you were getting some needs meet in a dysfunctional way. You then tried to make it go away in a dysfunctional way. You need to get into IC and figure out why you were doing this. Feeling sorry and guilty doesn't seem to lead to real change alone so you will likely go back to the same behavior or replace it with more dysfunction. 

It's really up to your H if he is going to give up the marriage or not. The only person you can control is yourself.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Hope you write out the timeline of everything and tell him you will take a polygraph on the timeline.

How would you feel if your H had several emotional and or physical affairs?

Would that bother you?


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Can't help but think that the OP possibly lied about things getting physical to gauge the H's reaction, and depending on the reaction, has a coupon for some physicality? Or possibly sharing the "story" here and forgetting the computer logged in for the "truth" to be read.

Just two scenarios that popped in my head while I skimmed through the thread.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LostLove1 said:


> My family sucked. There was a lot of fighting, a lot of mental, physical, and sexual abuse, and a lot of just general dysfunction. My father got what he wanted, when he wanted it, and it didn't matter what that was. I learned how to not upset him so that everyone had a better day. But saying that is why I am the way I am today is a copout isn't it? I know the difference between right and wrong. I know its wrong to lie. Sometimes I mean to tell the truth and before I can stop myself I'm saying something else. Then I don't want to get into trouble, or make someone mad so I just go with it. One of the biggest things my husband used to get upset about was me letting people walk all over me. He couldn't understand why I never stood up for myself. I kept trying to tell him it just wasn't worth the fight. He still doesn't understand what I was trying to say.


Lord almighty....

Okay. Yeah. I think this might have something to do with your issues here LL....

You need to get into some serious deep, deep counseling with a therapist who deals in Childhood Sexual Abuse (CSA) and get to work on this stuff. You waited way too long and now you are in a pickle from your bad coping skills.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

manwithnoname said:


> Can't help but think that the OP possibly lied about things getting physical to gauge the H's reaction, and depending on the reaction, has a coupon for some physicality? Or possibly sharing the "story" here and forgetting the computer logged in for the "truth" to be read.
> 
> Just two scenarios that popped in my head while I skimmed through the thread.



I'm a great fan of lateral thinking.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I think there is always hope.

I think you definitely deserve love.

But you need to be realistic. Getting over compulsive lying, if you can, is not something you do easily. It's not something you can wish away. It will take years of dedicated psychiatric care.

Perhaps Mary was more broken than you. She was subjected to church sponsored conversion therapy in 1969. It was mental and physical torture. She was 14 years old. That was what she finally learned from her therapy. She couldn't handle what she learned, at first, and stopped therapy. After 3 more years, with a lot of effort on my part, she did finally overcome that issue. Her panic attacks stopped. She is completely cured of those.

I majored in biology, and minored in psychology, at university. I studied psychology extensively so I could continue helping my girl. I have continued studying.

We still can't solve her compulsion to lie. If I come at her with the slightest hint of anger in my voice, she will completely crash out. Even when we discuss doing it as a test before hand and she is prepared. Even if I school her on the answers she should give!

She is happy with the protocols we have in place. They are adequate for me. 

Most psychologists today think compulsive lying is associated with other disorders, and does not stand alone. So they look for other issues to solve, and hope to solve compulsive lying that way. In Mary's case, every other potential disorder was discounted. She doesn't fit their current standard models. She won't go back to the shrinks.

If your husband will try, you can be happy. I know you want to be. I know you can be. The trouble is you dug yourself into such a deep hole before your husband realized the problem you actually have. 

Consider: If he had known you were a compulsive liar before all this happened, what could you two have done to avoid this? You would have needed to put some coping mechanisms in place to keep your lying in check. You will need to do that now. Saying you need to stop lying is just futile nonsense. You can't just stop. As much as you may want to. As soon as the pressure is on, it will happen again. 

Please be well. Compulsive lying is actually not uncommon. From what I have read, millions of people suffer from it, and many thousands find their spouses are willing to help them with this problem.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> My family sucked. There was a lot of fighting, a lot of mental, physical, and sexual abuse, and a lot of just general dysfunction
> I should look in counseling, even if he refuses to go with me.* I am not sure it will help *but I keep hearing it a lot. From a lot of different places,* so it cant hurt I guess.*





*The bold above tells me that you are really naïve or you are trying to cop out of facing your problems and having to do something about them*.

You have many years of your destructive personality and behavior with just your abilities. The results have been disastrous.

Stop avoiding you getting professional help and any other help so that can get better. You are not going to improve much with you doing half of what you need to do. You have already told us that you cannot handle conflict and have conflict avoidance but that does you no good at all unless you face reality and take actions to stop your destructive behavior.* Either you are going to go and get the right help and then YOU TAKE THE ACTIONS ADVISED or you will continue to be miserable and not get any better.*

You have over 50 posts on this thread and many are telling you the same thing. Do not pacify yourself with getting some relief by you venting on this forum and getting responses. We on this forum can only help you so much. Many on this thread are giving you good advice but YOU MUST TAKE ADDITIONAL ACTIONS!...*Are you going to get professional help and then DO IT?*


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You do need professional help. That is certain. You cannot equivocate on that.

Your psychiatrist may help you speak with your husband, and help him come to understand you. Believe it or not it was an incident similar to yours which started in 1978 and made me realize Mary had a major problem with lying. Her therapy was to address her panic attacks, but they certainly did address her compulsive lying. In 1981 her shrink invited me to a session, with her blessing I assume, to explain her to me. It did help tremendously. 

Her professional care continued for another 6 years. It was very important. It helped her. If she had been willing, it would be continuing still. 

I think a large part of the reason I came to accept Mary is because of that meeting with her shrink. He talked about my wife, about why she was the way she is, about the possible reasons, about the fact she wasn't displaying any of the potential disorders they had explored. They would continue with her treatment for the panic attacks, but he held out little hope of finding a cure for her compulsive lying. He asked if I felt I could accept her, and suggested various coping mechanisms.

Professional help is necessary.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Lostlove1

Based upon your posts, your history as a child, and the men involved with you in your life, you definitely need counseling. This should be a very high priority for you, yet I'm not sure you will do it. Your father was abusive, your ex husband was abusive, and now you are abusing your husband. Your current husband is also abusing you verbally by the name calling he is using. This must also stop for any real healing to take place. 

Next you stop lying, tell the truth, and yes sometimes the truth hurts. But there's a difference, if you tell truth and it hurts, so be it, telling the truth in a vindictive manner is different. Next, stop trying to please people, that is actually a more hurtful way to try and cope. This will only hurt you in the long run, and if you say you can handle that hurt, you're wrong. Not only will you hurt, but you will lose your self respect and self esteem, which down the road builds resentment. 

Next you need to understand that nobody is perfect, not even you. I don't suspect your marriage was all that bad, but it was suffering and not in a healthy place. In fact there is no way your marriage could have been good, I think there was neglect from both sides. From you, you weren't vulnerable to your husband, you didn't share your true thoughts and feelings, but I think you did with your ex boyfriend. Your husband based upon what you posted seems to be codependent, and they is bad for a marriage too. I'm getting that from how he tells his friends one thing and you something different. He is trying to appear strong for his friends but when he talks to you, it's the opposite. 

With all the lies you've told, contacting an ex when it was decided you should stop, and then meeting that ex in person, caused quite a bit of damage. From my perspective, if you were told to back off then met three times, hugged each time, I would be furious. But what cuts even deeper is the fact that you showed with actions that you couldn't care less about your husband or his feelings. You needed validation and took any means to get it. That is bad, especially since your husband was vulnerable in telling you how he felt about your contact with your ex. That vulnerability was met with a huge slamming of a door in his face, and that was by you. To top it off, you then proceed to contact others. You need to understand vulnerability in a relationship, you need to be open about your feelings, but from what I see you are a closed book without any chance of opening up. 

Now it's true you have been abused, but you could leave your abusive marriage any time you want. I'm talking about your ex husband here, you could have walked any time you wanted. There are so many resources available to you, yet it didn't seem like you took any for quite a while. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think your self esteem and lack of self respect kept you from leaving. Get into counseling to get those back.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

YOu definitely must go to therapy, compulsive lying could be a symptom of childhood abuse, or a personality disorder which needs to be diagnosed.

Then get a poly done for the benefit of your H, so that he can know the truth

Then work from there, perhaps continue therapy/IC and then get into MC. The more your H knows the truth about what you did and about what causes you to lie then you can come up with a plan.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

I wanted to thank each and every one of you for taking the time to read and respond to this. I will contact my primary care doctor and see if she can recommend someone I can see for IC. It seems that everyone thinks its very important, and if things are not changing with me trying them maybe talking to someone will help. 

I mentioned the lie detector test last night and he did not really respond either way, of course we had a good bit going on last night as well with the kids and stuff. I am hoping that he will give it some thought today and we will be able to discuss it more tonight. Even if he doesn't agree to it, maybe me at least bringing it up will help somehow.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

manwithnoname said:


> Can't help but think that the OP possibly lied about things getting physical to gauge the H's reaction, and depending on the reaction, has a coupon for some physicality? Or possibly sharing the "story" here and forgetting the computer logged in for the "truth" to be read.
> 
> Just two scenarios that popped in my head while I skimmed through the thread.


No - both of those thoughts are incorrect. I have not logged onto this website from my home computer. I have not mentioned to him yet that I posted here looking for advice. I would not say this is a secret being kept from him, but it's nothing something he knows about.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> LL,
> 
> Does your H have anyone he can confide in for support?
> 
> ...


He has several friends that he talks to. I know that in the beginning he talked to a lot of them but I am not sure he talked to them about this much now. He has a couple of friends that he goes fishing with almost everyday that I he could talk to if he wanted.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Consider: If he had known you were a compulsive liar before all this happened, what could you two have done to avoid this? You would have needed to put some coping mechanisms in place to keep your lying in check. You will need to do that now. Saying you need to stop lying is just futile nonsense. You can't just stop. As much as you may want to. As soon as the pressure is on, it will happen again.
> 
> Please be well. Compulsive lying is actually not uncommon. From what I have read, millions of people suffer from it, and many thousands find their spouses are willing to help them with this problem.


That is sort of the loop we have been in for a while now. He has known I have had an issue with lying, but it has always been "small stuff". He is a huge person for honesty. He does not believe that he lies, and he doesn't really like people that do. So that puts me at an even great disadvantage. But the point is something would happen, I would lie, he would find out, huge fight would happen, I would say I'm sorry and that I will stop and it wont happen again. I do good for a while, then the cycle starts all over again. 

I really don't want to be this way. I don't want to hurt people, Especially my family, because of my actions. I just keep screwing up, no matter how hard I try.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

TAM2013 said:


> NOT A COP OUT, OP. THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM.
> 
> Does your husband know all this?


He knows a little. He knows that there was some sexual abuse and the family members it came from. He knows that about my ex to a certain extent. He knows that he was an heavy drinker and abusive but not everything that went on in that time frame. None of it is something I have ever really be comfortable talking about to anyone. Hell my own Mother does not know the whole truth about the abuse from my father.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

LostLove1 said:


> That is sort of the loop we have been in for a while now. He has known I have had an issue with lying, but it has always been "small stuff". He is a huge person for honesty. He does not believe that he lies, and he doesn't really like people that do. So that puts me at an even great disadvantage. But the point is something would happen, I would lie, he would find out, huge fight would happen, I would say I'm sorry and that I will stop and it wont happen again. I do good for a while, then the cycle starts all over again.
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't want to be this way. I don't want to hurt people, Especially my family, because of my actions. I just keep screwing up, no matter how hard I try.




I was pretty cruel to my wife at times before I studied the issue. There were times I considered getting rid of her. It was the same cycle you describe. 

We got married in '73 when I was 19 and she was 18. I went back to school later and got my degree in '78. By then I knew a little about Mary's history and was trying to help her. I knew she was a compulsive liar and couldn't stop herself from lying. She also had panic attacks. We had some things in place to deal with her lying. 

As soon I went back to work and we got back on our feet I started her in counseling. After the meetings with her counselors we've never had another fight. Their words, their recognition of Mary's problems, completely erased all the anger in me that I felt towards her. 

And I did have a lot of anger at one time. I understand how your husband feels. But I do think you two can find peace together. 

It's going to take hard dedicated work. 

Be well.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Welcome to TAM. Belive me this is the best place you can find on the Internet. It helped a lot of people.

It takes a lot of courage to speak about this. You made a big first step-admitting your Affairs and lies. 

Your Husband is still with you which is a good sign for you. Even after a Year he is sticking with you. Trust me when I say this,he loves you and tries so hard to belive you but it is hard,you know that. He tells other people about how much he loves you and cares about you and then goes defensive when you are alone. He is trying to defend himself,scared to get hurt even more. 

Write him two letters. Make it handwriting,dont use Computer. It has a different message. In the first one you tell him all about your Affairs. Dont skip anything,even if some of the truth could hurt him. 
In the second one tell him about your first Husband,his physical abuse,your Father abuse. Be an open book for him. He is your best Friend.

After he reads it send your Kids to your Mother and make sure you two are alone. Ask him if he has any questions. This is what he is going to hear/read for the rest of your lives if he decides to stay. Tell him you made appointment with a Therapist.
No secrets anymore.You give him paswords for everything. There should not be any secrets in Marriage after all. 

Every single Friend that lied for you,covered up for you needs to go from your life. They are not your Friends and they dont respect your Husband or your Marriage.

Be there for him and dont pressure him. Dont you dare and say something like "its been a year,we should move on". It takes Years and Years to heal and rebuild the trust. If he asks some questions over and over again dont get impatient or worse mad. 

I wish I can help you more. 

Stay strong my Lady.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

Be smart said:


> Your Husband is still with you which is a good sign for you. Even after a Year he is sticking with you. Trust me when I say this,he loves you and tries so hard to belive you but it is hard,you know that. He tells other people about how much he loves you and cares about you and then goes defensive when you are alone. He is trying to defend himself,scared to get hurt even more.
> 
> Write him two letters. Make it handwriting,dont use Computer. It has a different message. In the first one you tell him all about your Affairs. Dont skip anything,even if some of the truth could hurt him.
> In the second one tell him about your first Husband,his physical abuse,your Father abuse. Be an open book for him. He is your best Friend.
> ...


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

Talk is cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey!!!

Did you offer up the polygraph last night?

If not, then you're just typing a bunch of empty words to get attention from anonymous internet posters.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

MyRevelation said:


> Talk is cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey!!!
> 
> Did you offer up the polygraph last night?
> 
> If not, then you're just typing a bunch of empty words to get attention from anonymous internet posters.


Yes I did. I asked him if he would be willing to accept a polygraph as the proof he is looking for. I also said that if he agreed I would like him to pick the location and the questions used. He really didn't answer. We did have a lot going on last night and not a lot of time to talk without interruptions. I am hoping that while he is home alone today he will give it some thought and we can talk about it more tonight. 

He didn't say no right off the bat, so I guess that is a good thing. He did ask how much something like that would cost and I told him I didn't know, but whatever it was I would try to take care of it with my own spare (not used for living expenses) money. He shook his head to that because he knows I almost never have leftover money, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

LostLove1 said:


> I would love to tell him everything - no that not true. I would not remotely even like to speak about it. I would love to never mention it again, but apparently that is not an option. I will tell him everything because it is necessary, but at this point I am really afraid he is going to do one of two things:
> 
> 1- Tell me that I am lying to get sympathy and something that I can use as a cop-out excuse for being the way that I am.
> 2- Laugh at me and tell me "once a [email protected]%e always a [email protected]%e", and that if he had known all of this year ago he never would have gotten involved with me in the first place. I mean, he has said a lot of things like that already.
> ...


You can't expect anything from him right now, his emotions are all over the place and he knows that you lie all the time, so he can't believe what you say. You need to a) stop lying, like never lie to him again, like ever. b) start showing him this is going to be the case (poly shows this, being open with devices shows this) c) get IC (this again shows that you are trying.

What happened may end up a deal breaker, but if you really want to save this, you need to show, especially via actions, that a) you are remorseful, b) trying to change and c) willing to do what it takes to be the W he deserves, you may have a chance. If you don't, you won't have a chance.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

LostLove1 said:


> Yes I did. I asked him if he would be willing to accept a polygraph as the proof he is looking for. I also said that if he agreed I would like him to pick the location and the questions used. He really didn't answer. We did have a lot going on last night and not a lot of time to talk without interruptions. I am hoping that while he is home alone today he will give it some thought and we can talk about it more tonight.
> 
> He didn't say no right off the bat, so I guess that is a good thing. He did ask how much something like that would cost and I told him I didn't know, but whatever it was I would try to take care of it with my own spare (not used for living expenses) money. He shook his head to that because he knows I almost never have leftover money, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.


If that is true, then I apologize for swinging the 2x4 at you. 

I'm not usually a poly advocate, but in your case, that may be your one and only shot at salvaging something.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

QUOTE]

I would love to tell him everything - no that not true. I would not remotely even like to speak about it. I would love to never mention it again, but apparently that is not an option. I will tell him everything because it is necessary, but at this point I am really afraid he is going to do one of two things: 

1- Tell me that I am lying to get sympathy and something that I can use as a cop-out excuse for being the way that I am. 
2- Laugh at me and tell me "once a [email protected]%e always a [email protected]%e", and that if he had known all of this year ago he never would have gotten involved with me in the first place. I mean, he has said a lot of things like that already. 

Even if that is not the response I get, I seriously doubt I am going to get anything that resembles kindness or compassion. Maybe I should not expect that. Maybe I should expect doubt and see what I get. Maybe that's just my fear talking. I am very very afraid. I know what I need to do, and it makes sense. And I am very thankful that I have found people here willing to give advise to someone like me, But when I say just reading that I need to talk to him about this immediately made me cry I am not kidding.[/QUOTE]

I can understand your fear,would he leave you,but your Marriage is already in big trouble.
Really,if you want to make things better only truth can save you. If you tell more lies or refuse to tell the whole truth then dont expect him to stick with you. If you keep doing the wrong things then he deserves better and not someone who constantly lies. 

Think about him and what he needs. Just for a second. Forget about yourself and put yourself in his position. You will give everything to know the truth,right ??? 

He needs his Wife to come clean once for all. He needs to see that you are sorry and will NEVER do this again. Talk is cheap,your actions speak more. 

Stay strong.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

naiveonedave said:


> You can't expect anything from him right now, his emotions are all over the place and he knows that you lie all the time, so he can't believe what you say. You need to a) stop lying, like never lie to him again, like ever. b) start showing him this is going to be the case (poly shows this, being open with devices shows this) c) get IC (this again shows that you are trying.
> 
> What happened may end up a deal breaker, but if you really want to save this, you need to show, especially via actions, that a) you are remorseful, b) trying to change and c) willing to do what it takes to be the W he deserves, you may have a chance. If you don't, you won't have a chance.


I am trying. He has access to my phone at all times. We share an iTunes account so he knows what apps I have. My phone has no password or anything like that. I have deleted all social media, and all emails. I have two email accounts now, well technically three. 1 that is his and mine that is used for personal stuff. One that was given to me by my school that only has to do with my college courses and one for work - which has to do with only work. He has the password and access to everything except the work email. I could give him access to the work email but I don't know how the boss would feel about that. 

Thank you for all of your advice and help.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

Be smart said:


> QUOTE]
> 
> I would love to tell him everything - no that not true. I would not remotely even like to speak about it. I would love to never mention it again, but apparently that is not an option. I will tell him everything because it is necessary, but at this point I am really afraid he is going to do one of two things:
> 
> ...


I can understand your fear,would he leave you,but your Marriage is already in big trouble.
Really,if you want to make things better only truth can save you. If you tell more lies or refuse to tell the whole truth then dont expect him to stick with you. If you keep doing the wrong things then he deserves better and not someone who constantly lies. 

Think about him and what he needs. Just for a second. Forget about yourself and put yourself in his position. You will give everything to know the truth,right ??? 

He needs his Wife to come clean once for all. He needs to see that you are sorry and will NEVER do this again. Talk is cheap,your actions speak more. 

Stay strong.[/QUOTE]

I get that the trouble is already there, and there is a good chance that no matter what I will have the face the very real consequences of what I said and did by him leaving. I am trying to tell him the truth. I am not lying to him about what I did now and I try very hard not to lie. Every question that he asks I try to take a breath and calm down and answer simply as possible. I want to be t he person he deserves - more than that I want to be the person he wants.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Lovelost1*
> I asked him if he would be willing to accept a polygraph as the proof he is looking for. I also said that if he agreed I would like him to pick the location and the questions used.
> He has access to my phone at all times.
> My phone has no password or anything like that. I have deleted all social media, and all emails
> He has the password and access to everything except the work email.



CONGRATULATIONS LoveLost! You are not all talk and are taking bold steps to get better. Do not fail to get IC even though I know it may be painful for you. You are showing that you are a brave person and you need to keep doing what you know will help you.* You are a valuable person no matter if your husband says different. Your children need you even if your husband stays or goes away.*
Your actions so far are impressive!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My opinion.

He should have the work email address password, too. If he does not, it will eat away at your credibility.

Even I give my wife my work email address password. Why would you keep it secret from him? Very dangerous, considering what you are trying to achieve. You can say, oh it shouldn't matter. But trust me on this, it does matter. 

When I discovered my wife was lying, if she had tried to keep a work email address password secret from me I would have given her the choice of quitting work or me leaving her. Period. Or, I would have simply left. The mere thought of her keeping anything for any reason outside my reach was reason enough for me to explode when it hit the fan back then.

I was so anal about lies I wouldn't even brook white lies to save people's feelings, like telling her that dress didn't make her butt look big.

That one password matters. One lock, anywhere on anything, matters. It could destroy everything you are trying to fix.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

LL1, when someone else drops something on the floor, do you pick it up for them?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

That's a silly question.

But I'll bet she does.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

WilliamM said:


> That's a silly question.


Maybe. But if she has to, making sure she only picks stuff up for her husband is a good start.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

TAM2013 said:


> LL1, when someone else drops something on the floor, do you pick it up for them?



Yes I do -


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

TAM2013 said:


> Maybe. But if she has to, making sure she only picks stuff up for her husband is a good start.


I think I might be missing the point. If someone drops something, like a friend, co-worker, one of the kids I should not pick it up? And I should only pick up something if he drops it? I mean I can do that, but I am not sure I understand


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> My opinion.
> 
> He should have the work email address password, too. If he does not, it will eat away at your credibility.
> 
> ...


I can provide him the webmail link and password to the account. I created a book with accounts and how to access them and gave it to him. Not just my accounts, but every account we have that I know the information for. I do not think he is looking at them, but they are there for him at any times if he wants them. Saying that makes me realize that he does not have access, or even know about this account. I should probably add it to the book. 

He is much the say way - he does not tolerate lies in any way. Not the spare feelings of anyone (me or the kids included) 

If I could quit my job and say home I would in a heartbeat but that is not an option financially. As it is we are kind of "paycheck to paycheck". I was out of work for several month already because I quit my previous job that required I travel every other month, sometimes more. He could not trust what I was doing while I was away. I tried Skyping with him so he could see and he everything I was doing, but the boss didn't like it. So I decided to quit the job rather than have him think I was doing something behind his back. 

I will add the work email information to everything else that he has tonight.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

Mr Blunt said:


> CONGRATULATIONS LoveLost! You are not all talk and are taking bold steps to get better. Do not fail to get IC even though I know it may be painful for you. You are showing that you are a brave person and you need to keep doing what you know will help you.* You are a valuable person no matter if your husband says different. Your children need you even if your husband stays or goes away.*
> Your actions so far are impressive!


Thank you. 

I have not really started work on the IC thing yet. I made one call to my doctor. I have a few names she gave me, but have not contacted them yet. As far as the email passwords and such, he has had those for months. I willingly gave everything so that he could monitor my actions, but I don't think he really uses any of it - except the "Find my phone" app which I know he uses often. 

He says some hurtful things, but I don't blame him for any of that. He is angry and hurt and probably wants me to hurt too. I think that's a very common reaction for some people. 

At any rate, thank you again.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

Just a quick update, I mentioned the poly testing again last night and I am not sure it went over as well as I had hoped. He asked what good it would do and ended up just saying "whatever 'my full first name' " which he never calls me. I will let it sink in a few days before I say anything else. I don't want to seem pushy. 

Today seemed like a pretty good morning, so that was positive. 

Again, that you all for your comments, suggestions, and thoughts. Even the ones that don't say what I want to hear and helpful and nowhere near as harsh as I expected. I see why so many come here to talk.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

LostLove1 said:


> Just a quick update, I mentioned the poly testing again last night and I am not sure it went over as well as I had hoped. He asked what good it would do and ended up just saying "whatever 'my full first name' " which he never calls me. I will let it sink in a few days before I say anything else. I don't want to seem pushy.
> 
> Today seemed like a pretty good morning, so that was positive.
> 
> Again, that you all for your comments, suggestions, and thoughts. Even the ones that don't say what I want to hear and helpful and nowhere near as harsh as I expected. I see why so many come here to talk.


Remember have him write a timeline.
Then he takes a poly on the timeline.
Not just a straight up poly. 
Straight up poly without a timeline is much less reliable.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LostLove1 said:


> Just a quick update, I mentioned the poly testing again last night and I am not sure it went over as well as I had hoped. He asked what good it would do and ended up just saying "whatever 'my full first name' " which he never calls me. I will let it sink in a few days before I say anything else. I don't want to seem pushy.
> 
> Today seemed like a pretty good morning, so that was positive.
> 
> Again, that you all for your comments, suggestions, and thoughts. Even the ones that don't say what I want to hear and helpful and nowhere near as harsh as I expected. I see why so many come here to talk.


LL just go and take the test. Just pay the money and go and do it. Don't tell him you are going. Just do it. Then show your husband the printed results. 

_1) "Are you still in contact with your affair partner?"
2) "Did you have sex with the OM?"
3) "Have you ever had sex with other men while married to your husband?" 
4) "Have you ever cheated on your husband with any other men other than this OM._" 

These are the kind of affair related questions you can have the tester ask you. If your husband doesn't believe you, or the validity of the test, you can always take another one.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My problems with Mary were in 1978. There were few internet things then. As in, none.

What she did provide me, keys, information, I demanded, had to have. But I will say I didn't bother to actually ever access any of them, other than to check that all the keys actually worked and all the information was accurate. The act of giving me the access was what I had to have. 

Taking a lie detector test may or may not help. The act of offering to, being willing to, is important. It may actually be all your husband wants. Your willingness to do it. 

There were times I had to leave the home for fear of doing harm to my wife. When I would get home I would shake with rage when I saw her. I pride myself on my self control, and this issue destroyed my self control for a while. You are doing well, I think.


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## arobk (Mar 17, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> Remember have him write a timeline.
> Then he takes a poly on the timeline.
> Not just a straight up poly.
> Straight up poly without a timeline is much less reliable.


SS you might read the thread before you post on it.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

LostLove1 said:


> I think I might be missing the point. If someone drops something, like a friend, co-worker, one of the kids I should not pick it up? And I should only pick up something if he drops it? I mean I can do that, but I am not sure I understand


No. They dropped it, they pick it up. Next time it happens, just stand there and feel what it's like not to need someones affirmation for a minute. Go from there and apply it to EVERYTHING.

The only exception (for the time being) is your husband. You have some damage to repair there. Make a point you only do it for him.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Something that came to mind today was something I have observed during the years I have dealt with this illness. I have not found my wife to lie when I have not questioned her.

When I have been patient, and waited, and just let her tell me what she tells me, nothing she has told me has born out to be a lie. When I question her, many things, if not most things, she answers are subsequently found to be lies. I have many protocols in place to verify anything she says. But I have never found anything she says to be a lie when she has volunteered the information without being questioned.

I know many people think dealing with this illness it too weird to tolerate. But personally I don't see it as being very different than dealing with any of many addictions. Spouses of alcoholics and gambling addicts have to help their loved ones cope. Do they they just throw up their hands and dump their loved ones in the garbage? I hope not. I will not do that to Mary.

Yes, I am a wild child of the 60's. But, when it comes down to it, I do believe, as odd as it may sound for someone like me who is pretty adamantly anti religion, that once I chose to get married, I am married for life. And I will do everything I can to make this work. I will not surrender.

So, yes, Mary has an illness. She has been to certified psychologists and psychiatrists. She has more problems than I could ever have imagined anyone could have. Among her problems is this , pathological lying. I have dealt with it for 37 years. I will not give up on her. I will never give up on her. I will never give up on our marriage.

In those 37 years I assure you I have had ample opportunity to verify, in many ways, she does not lie if I do not question her. I just have to be patient.

Edit: We have been married for 43 years. But I was unaware of her illness for the first 6 years. I was aware of her lies. It did cause major problems. Horrible, horrible problems which pain me to remember.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Something that came to mind today was something I have observed during the years I have dealt with this illness. I have not found my wife to lie when I have not questioned her.
> 
> When I have been patient, and waited, and just let her tell me what she tells me, nothing she has told me has born out to be a lie. When I question her, many things, if not most things, she answers are subsequently found to be lies. I have many protocols in place to verify anything she says. But I have never found anything she says to be a lie when she has volunteered the information without being questioned.
> 
> ...


You are a very strong man, and you must love your wife very very much. I don't really think that many people would be willing to go to the lengths you have to stay in a marriage. You wife is lucky to have you. 
I wont say I *only* lie when questioned. There have been times when I have lied that he was not questioning me, but these were also instances that I knew that I or the kids had done something (or not done something) and I was trying to prevent anyone from getting into trouble. 
It wont make much sense to many people but with me - You can ask me a question, but you can't question me. You can ask me how my day was or what I am making for dinner and I am fine. No lies. 
If you ask me anything at all that I can think your going to be upset about, that's when I lie. Did you call the doctors office for me - if I forgot to do it chances are I am going to lie about it. Hell even if I did call but didn't get an answer I might lie about it until I get the information that's needed. 

At this point I am not sure that anything I do will matter. I have offered the poly again and he laughed in my face. He says that he does not love me and that he never will love me to way he used to. He says that I don't love him, if I did I would never have lied to him and I would do ANYTHING he says to prove I love him. Some of the things seem to much, and I just cant do it. Then he gets mad again. This morning he said he would be packed and gone before I got home from work. I don't know - I just feel lost.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

LostLove1 said:


> At this point I am not sure that anything I do will matter. I have offered the poly again and he laughed in my face. He says that he does not love me and that he never will love me to way he used to. He says that I don't love him, if I did I would never have lied to him and I would do ANYTHING he says to prove I love him. Some of the things seem to much, and I just cant do it. Then he gets mad again. This morning he said he would be packed and gone before I got home from work. I don't know - I just feel lost.


He will need time to get over this. And probably counseling.

you need counseling on why you lie. And you need to show him through words, but really mostly actions that:
a) you are done lying
b) you are 'safe' for him
c) this needs to be consistent over time.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

naiveonedave said:


> He will need time to get over this. And probably counseling.
> 
> .


He will not go to counselling. He considers it a waste of time and money. He says its fine for other people but he thinks its just a way for people to get money off you and make you believe things are wrong with you when you are perfectly fine. 

But I will go if that's an option. I am doing my best to show him, or at least I think I am. He says I am not. So I need to find another, better way.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

LostLove1 said:


> He will not go to counselling. He considers it a waste of time and money. He says its fine for other people but he thinks its just a way for people to get money off you and make you believe things are wrong with you when you are perfectly fine.
> 
> But I will go if that's an option. I am doing my best to show him, or at least I think I am. He says I am not. So I need to find another, better way.


ask him what you could do to show that you were trying to be honest?


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

naiveonedave said:


> ask him what you could do to show that you were trying to be honest?


I have done this and he said the only thing he will believe is an email, which I no longer have access to. He says without that there is nothing I can do, but there is no way for me to get that. Shy of hiring a hacker to break into my former employers email servers and hoping that its still there somewhere.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Contact your former employer and explain the situation.

See if someone could email it to you.

worth a try. Hope you get out of this hole you dug.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Note in my story, my life with Mary, I sent her to a certified psychologist. Then a psychiatrist. Later, another psychiatrist. I choose them. It was not marriage counseling. It was specifically to address her panic attacks, but also her lying.

When I started her going, I had not yet actually realized she was lying so much. But the choice of therapist was correct for both issues. Although the psychiatrist I choose as her second therapist was specifically chosen as a specialist in trauma treatment with experience with chronic lying.

In our case Mary does not lie when I do not question her. But she also does not talk with me very often. She was punished harshly as a child for "lying", by being beaten with a belt since as far back as she can remember, and occasionally having her mouth washed out with lye soap. She learned to only answer what they wanted to hear, and just never speak unless she was forced to answer. Every question was a trap, meant to give her abusers a chance to hurt her more.

So, Mary does not talk to me much at all. She does enjoy talking about totally meaningless things to people who have no power over her. She shows me she loves me in plenty of quiet ways to satisfy me. Every day, many times a day.

Hey, I talk to you guys more than anybody ever needs to talk, anyway. It's fun to listen to her occasional comments about my posts to this site. Which is all that keeps me posting, really.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> In our case Mary does not lie when I do not question her. But she also does not talk with me very often. She was punished harshly as a child for "lying", by being beaten with a belt since as far back as she can remember, and occasionally having her mouth washed out with lye soap. She learned to only answer what they wanted to hear, and just never speak unless she was forced to answer. Every question was a trap, meant to give her abusers a chance to hurt her more.
> 
> So, Mary does not talk to me much at all. She does enjoy talking about totally meaningless things to people who have no power over her. She shows me she loves me in plenty of quiet ways to satisfy me. Every day, many times a day.
> .


Lying in my home was very harshly punished, but I can not say that it was a physically abusive place. Mental and sexually - physically not so much. My first marriage was physically abusive, and I relearned very quickly give the right answer - regardless of truth. I have started saying very little. It seems to be safer that way. If I don't talk, then I cant lie.


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## LostLove1 (May 10, 2017)

harrybrown said:


> Contact your former employer and explain the situation.
> 
> See if someone could email it to you.
> 
> worth a try. Hope you get out of this hole you dug.


Would it still be there, even after several months (was originally sent in September) and they have deleted my account with them. And I am sure the computer has been reformatted for a different user. I did not think that asking was even an option anymore.


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## thedope (Jan 3, 2017)

You should consider a divorce


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LostLove1 said:


> Would it still be there, even after several months (was originally sent in September) and they have deleted my account with them. And I am sure the computer has been reformatted for a different user. I did not think that asking was even an option anymore.


My ex employer never reformats any computer. I think they still have my profile on "my" computer! 

So, ask them. They can only say no.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

We don't do it either, and often when a new machine is purchased, a copy of the old machine's hard drive is kept. In some cases, I will junk an old machine, but I retain the hard drive. They do not take up much space and they can reveal an awful lot. It is possible your old employer still has that machine, and it has not been reformatted.


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