# Is this even infidelity?



## tokyo_life (Nov 3, 2011)

First of all, apologies that I'm even here on this board as I'm not married. But I'm just looking for a little advice from people perhaps with more experience than me. 

I met a woman around 2 months ago. She is 36. I am 38. Both never married. We hit it off immediately. She told me a few weeks later that she had very recently just broken up with her boyfriend (only a week before we met) and that she still wasn't over him as it was a very deep relationship. He is married with 2 kids. I am a big believer in fidelity and although this put me off at first I remained open and was willing to let it go, as we all make mistakes and I didn't want to judge. 

During that conversation, she asked me how I felt about her and I basically said it was too early to say and that I was unsure.

We spent the next 4-6 weeks with each other almost every day and night and I started to develop feelings for her, but I still wasn't sure about making a commitment so I never spoke about my feelings.

Recently I returned to my home country (I live in Japan, she is Japanese), and the moment I stepped on the plane until the moment I came back to Japan (2 weeks later), she was all I could think about. I then realized I had developed strong feelings for her and that I wanted to commit.

I naively thought she must be feeling the same way and so must be losing the feelings she had for her ex. In hindsight, this was a self-centered way to think.

When I came back to Japan, she admitted she had spent the night with her ex. I was shocked and hurt. But she said that we didn't have a commitment and that she thought I wasn't that interested in her since I'd never told her the way I felt or asked for a commitment or even asked once about the way she felt about her ex despite her telling me she still had feelings for him. She told me it was in no way cheating since we didn't even have a relationship. Is this a matter of opinion? Are the words "let's commit" that important or can a relationship just naturally evolve? I guess every person is different. To me, it felt like we already had some sort of relationship, which means being faithful. She was of the mind that we didn't yet have that level of commitment so were free to do whatever.

When I told her the way I felt and that I planned to make a commitment upon my return to Japan, she said she wished I had told her earlier or at least given some sign so that she knew. Now that she knows this, she is desperate for me not to leave. She obviously still has feelings for her ex who has been promising to divorce his wife and marry her for the past 8 months but says it's difficult because of the child situation. I think she's being naive. 

Anyway, I realize I was only seeing the situation from my perspective and failed to see it from her side in that she needed to hear my feelings and level of commitment, which may have stopped her jumping into bed with her ex. 

Part of me says to let it go and give it a try with her. I'm confident that if we are in a committed relationship, she wouldn't cheat. Or is that being naive? Another part of me is saying to steer clear and move on. Does the fact that she has been messing around with a married man without care of potentially destroying another person's happiness point to a particular character trait?

Advice?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, she isn't over her ex.

You had no commitment so she is free to do what she pleases. However, spending a night with her ex is kinda reiterating that she isn't over him.

If you decide to stay with her, and commit, she could be faithful, but she may pine for her ex since she's not over him-- which will hurt your relationship in the long run.

My advice is to date her if you so choose, but keep yourself uncommitted for now and see where it goes.

Or just cut your losses now and find someone completely emotionally available 

I'd probably do the second option. I'm too old for drama and I don't want to compete with any ex. Ever.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

If you didn't have a discussion about being exclusive, and you'd been seeing each other for less than 2 months, I'd say your expectations are a little high, with regards to her not seeing anyone else.

But it seems obvious that she's not over the other guy, since apparently she got under him while you were apart. So if you're looking for someone to give your heart to, I think you might want to give her more time to get that out of her system.

To summarize... No, I don't think she cheated on you. But I don't think she's relationship material, at least not yet.

C


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## lht285 (Aug 25, 2011)

Are morals in Japan different? I would have reservations about a woman who is dating a married man to begin with. I would find someone else. I don't think she cheated due to the fact that you never made it exclusive, but I still find her to be morally bankrupt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

She is having sex with a married man (her boyfriend). She obviously do not consider marriage important.

You know she's a cheater.

If you want an interesting future, continue seeing her.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

lht285 said:


> Are morals in Japan different? I would have reservations about a woman who is dating a married man to begin with. I would find someone else. I don't think she cheated due to the fact that you never made it exclusive, but I still find her to be morally bankrupt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Morals are no different in the US, Europe, Asia or anywhere. If I can recall even US women sleep with married man, so please refrain from making a racist statement.

As to the OP, don't do it, you're taking on a girl with baggage and you're a meal ticket for her. The married man is a sugar daddy, if you can replace that then she can replace him.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I am not so sure it is racist. In other cultures, it is somewhat acceptable that husbands have a gf.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You are behind the 8 ball with this woman before you even start

1st she is a cheater, and homewrecker herself, as she is helping her lover cheat on his wife---so her morals are for sh*t to start out with

2nd if someone is really, truly in love---even tho she allegedly left him, her feelings just don't end, cold turkey---she still is heavily "into" him, and that probably won't go away anytime soon

You will do as you wish---but this woman, probably is not the best material for a serious relationship----she will hurt you again, and everytime her lover shows up don't be surprised if she goes to him, no matter what her relationship is with someone else!!!!!!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes it is. The big thing you should worry about is that she doesn't feel disgusted with her lover for being a married cheat. Which means she won't have any problem or guilt with herself one day bring the cheater.

Run away from her.

You said you didn't want to judge her. That's a bad choice. When selecting someone to date, you absolutely should be judging them by their words and actions, and rejecting the ones who do not share your values and beliefs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tokyo_life (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses. I think now that I probably expected too much considering the circumstances and have reacted out of jealousy. I presume she has been seeing us both all along anyway.

So she has asked to meet and talk. I'll keep an open mind until I hear her out. My biggest concern is actually her feelings on fidelity, particularly in marriage. 

I won't jump to any conclusions until I hear what she has to say about the matter. I don't know any background to her story yet, so I think it's better that I don't prejudge. There may possibly be more than meets the eye. 

Either way, if her values don't align with mine on the subject, I will most definitely recalibrate i.e. move on.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Since she has been seeing the OM all along it would be wise for you to get tested for STD's.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

You can hear her out, but I wouldn't invest any more time or emotion in this relationship. For her to have the desire to sleep with another man while dating you shows a lack of interest in you and your future relationship. If I was really into a guy and saw him almost daily for 2 months, I would remain exclusive even without the words being spoken. I wouldn't want to risk the relationship by sleeping with someone else, so I would rather error on the side of caution and stay faithful. 

As far as sleeping with a married man and father of two, she should be judged. There's no acceptable reason to be pursuing and continuing a relationship with a married man. She shows no indication that the entire relationship was wrong in the first place. This woman wants the OM to leave his wife and kids for her, which shows she's self centered and selfish with no moral compass. She's also blaming you for her sleeping with the OM while you were away. I call bu11$#!t, she would've slept with the OM regardless, because she's not over him and if given the choice would pick him over you.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Tokyo, yeah count your blessings you saw her true ways, she seems to have no ethical qualms about adultery. If you would have "committed" to her she likely would have betrayed you sooner or later anyways.

I think jumping into a relationship looking specifically for a committment is overlooking so many things about new relationships. If I were you I'd not worry so much about seeking a committment - it sounds to me you have the "nice guy syndrome" like me where you believe to get sex you need to go to all sorts of great lengths to please this woman emotionally first, but as she outright told you, she thought you weren't interested. Next time you meet a woman just try to get some sex and let her control the emotional agenda, but beware to not get strung along like you probably usually do!


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Tokoyo, I made the very same mistake, twice. Both my XW had histories of involvementss with married men. They both seriallycheated in the marriages. Do not minimize the importance of this. You have a window into her thoughts on the sanctity of marriage, and, hopefully, her view is very different than your own.

On my own , now, out in the dating world, I have had to have very strict, arbitrary criteria regarding getting into a relationship. This is because, in the past, i let attraction override my values. I will never date anyone , knowingly, that has had any history of infidelity, either as a cheater or an OW.
I have been burnt, twice, by thinking that peole make mistakes, people change etc. Thye may very well change, but i cannot take another hit. So, I do not take the chance.
In you case, this woman has not ven acknowledge that what she is doing is wrong,let alone made any effort to change.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Im just going to piss in the wind since you have obviously developed strong feelings for this women and you are likely going to give her an opportunity to rationalize and justify her relationship to this married man. Deep down, you probably want a reason to understand and minimize her behavior...

But, for what it's worth, You've been warned. 

This women is poison. Toxic. 

You won't change her. Your going to get hurt. You have no idea how badly.

Enjoy the ride.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Pit is so F'ing right. And, we are probably powerless to stop you. Just about every guy dealing with this thinks :"Not with me. I am different. etc" It's a combo of naivety and hubris.
It is like watching a train wreck coming. Just cannot stop it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Im just going to piss in the wind since you have obviously developed strong feelings for this women and you are likely going to give her an opportunity to rationalize and justify her relationship to this married man. Deep down, you probably want a reason to understand and minimize her behavior...
> 
> But, for what it's worth, You've been warned.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## tokyo_life (Nov 3, 2011)

I understand the warnings and the potential danger. But I will still hear her out. My bs radar is on high alert. If she has played any part in the destruction of this marriage, I walk. Simple as that. It doesn't fit with my philosophy of never harming another person, in whatever way, shape or form. But I least need to hear her story first. 

I feel I am a strong enough person to walk away and never look back if need be. Although truth be told I'm feeling a bit vulnerable at the moment. I've spent the last three years single and waiting to meet someone. The physical attraction probably got the better of me this time around. 

I am worried about STDs, especially because I did the unthinkable for me and slept with her unprotected. Foolish I know but the situation got the better of me and she assured me she would only sleep with someone unprotected if she was in it for the long haul. That statement obviously doesn't fit with her actions, so more lies it seems. Although she did promise that this was the only "indiscretion" with her ex and that once he put the condom on, she stopped him, so there was no penetration. I have my doubts. And that doesn't exclude a whole other range of STDs anyway. 

Anyway, she is out of town at her parents and back next Tuesday, when we will meet. I hope to follow up in this forum then and seek more advice. 

You have all been great. Having just arrived back in a foreign country with few close friends to confide in yet, you have been super support. Thank you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She's been having an affair w a married guy for about 8 to 10 months or more. It sounds like its not over either if she had sex w him again. You said they'd only broken it off for a week before u started hanging out. She wasn't and is still not over him. You're only two months in so my advice is to cut your losses now and move on. Emotionally she is not in a good place right now since the affair isn't over and she is prob sorting out her feelings. And yes...by participating in an affair w the married guy, she has helped destroy his marriage. This wasn't a short or one time thing. Its been a year if not more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

tokyo_life said:


> If she has played any part in the destruction of this marriage, I walk.


Then start walking. If you've spent any time reading these threads, you know that her affair has played a big part in the destruction of his marriage. Everything she tells you, will be the lies, half truths, re-written history, and general bu11$#!t he told her about his marriage. You have to know she will try to spin it in some way to make her sound blamefree. I'm guessing she will go the victim route, and will somehow make it sound like he preyed on her naivety or something. 

Regardless of what she says, how can you believe her? She lied about having sex with someone condomless only if she was in it for the long haul. That completely contradicts her statement that she didn't know you were exclusive. How can you be with someone for the long haul, but not exclusive? 

If she didn't use a condom with you, I would question if she used a condom with the OM. Many people in long term affairs don't use condoms. She wanted this man to leave his wife for her, sounds like a long haul to me. Did she say she was on birth control too? If she is, it's highly doubtful she used a condom with the OM, because they probably stopped using one long ago in their 8 months together.

She has put you at risk for STD's. She has also put the OMW at risk for STD's since she most likely had unprotected sex with the OM. I doubt she disclosed to the OM she had unprotected sex with you. I have no clue how this woman can possibly redeem herself, but I understand your need to hear her story.

Good luck and stay strong.


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