# New development.. so discouraged.



## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

While I've been here trying to catch up on my last post, I just noticed my latest cell bill email. I opened it and looked at the usage. I don't know if I should have done this, but I looked at a few recent numbers she had called. I googled them, and my fears have been recognized. They were to apartment complexes. I was afraid I was going to get blindsided by this. I feel I probably shouldn't have looked at the numbers, but I just am having such a hard time not knowing anything. We literally haven't even had one straight face to face conversation since she left. Am I wrong to think that 11 years should at least be worth a conversation for some closure? I mean, she did tell me she was done, but I've been holding on to some tiny hope that she would feel differently after she had some time to reflect and get some peace. I at least hoped she would give me some warning before she started looking for a place and moving forward with specifics. I'm feeling so hopeless in this moment. I just can't get over that. It's as if I took it so far that a switch flipped and she is going to despise me forever. I hate this so much.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She was in so much pain, lost. She took so many emotional beatings. 

If you can earn back her trust, though, there may be hope.

Have you tried to contact her? Have you sent your letter?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

There may not be any hope for life with this women, but you are wrong your life is not hopeless. You can an will have joy again. Now is the time to start accepting that it's over man. Accept the pain and part of the grieving process but also start to have hope for a better future. YOUR LIFE IS NOT OVER!


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

jld said:


> She was in so much pain, lost. She took so many emotional beatings.
> 
> If you can earn back her trust, though, there may be hope.
> 
> Have you tried to contact her? Have you sent your letter?


I had tried to contact her earlier on, sparingly. She really just wanted to be left alone. I finally told her that I would respect her wish and give her the space. Tomorrow is day 3 no contact at all. I have the letter saved, but I don't know when I should send it. I was waiting for her to contact me first, so that I don't violate her need for space at all. When is it a good idea to send it? It seems like it would be something that would help to vindicate how she must be feeling, but I don't want to assume that either. I worded it very carefully, so as not to seem as though I were telling her how she feels, but rather suggesting the things that made a lot of sense to me and seemed to fit. I wrote that if it did fit the bill, I hoped it would help her to gain some peace. I just don't know what to do at this point, I'm so torn. I want to express my feelings to her, but I know it's only going to make it worse. I already have.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> There may not be any hope for life with this women, but you are wrong your life is not hopeless. You can an will have joy again. Now is the time to start accepting that it's over man. Accept the pain and part of the grieving process but also start to have hope for a better future. YOUR LIFE IS NOT OVER!


I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. I just mean I feel hopeless as for any chance of her coming back. I know my life isn't over, I just think it's going to be huge challenge to get there, and it's just not what I want at all. I want that happiness to be with her in my life so bad. I need a mulligan this one time. At the end of the day, I've spent the last several days really trying to prepare for the worst and trying to focus on the changes I need to make for me, which I will have to make if she comes back or not. That's the mentality that's keeping me going. I hope my efforts will win her trust back, but even if it doesn't I'll be better prepared to move forward and start to think about how I'm going to be able to move on with someone else some day. That thought scares me to death. I'm about to turn 39 this year. We moved to a new city 10 months ago, and I really don't know anyone here. I don't do bars and clubs anymore. I don't really have a job that allows me to meet people. It's definitely going to be a challenge.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lost_without_her said:


> I had tried to contact her earlier on, sparingly. She really just wanted to be left alone. I finally told her that I would respect her wish and give her the space. Tomorrow is day 3 no contact at all. I have the letter saved, but I don't know when I should send it. I was waiting for her to contact me first, so that I don't violate her need for space at all. When is it a good idea to send it? It seems like it would be something that would help to vindicate how she must be feeling, but I don't want to assume that either. I worded it very carefully, so as not to seem as though I were telling her how she feels, but rather suggesting the things that made a lot of sense to me and seemed to fit. I wrote that if it did fit the bill, I hoped it would help her to gain some peace. I just don't know what to do at this point, I'm so torn. I want to express my feelings to her, but I know it's only going to make it worse. I already have.


I hear your sincerity, lost. I am so sorry things have come to this. 

I would send the letter. 

I just do not see how she could resist a humble, contrite heart from you. Surely it would move her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you want to start getting out and meeting people take a look at meetup.com It's not a dating site. It's a site that people create meetups and other go. For example here where I live there are meetups for kayaking, hiking, car enthusiasts, book clubs, artists, musicians, and on and on. Just find things that look interesting and go. You will meet both men and women. it's not a dating or hookup site.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I read your other thread. Here is what I suggest and if you actually do this, you will begin to feel a little better and a little better...and there might be hope for your marriage.

Take your wife's lead and take your own space. Which means, do like she is doing: She has stopped worrying about what you want and think and feel, and has started looking at what she wants and thinks and feels.

You need to do the same. Your process with understanding how you behaved and the detrimental effect of it was a good start in self awareness. But there is so much more to YOU that you should learn and explore. Detach from her (which doesn't mean a permanent detachment) and just look at yourself. Remove her from your processes for now, for a little while. Like she is doing.

She is trying to re-balance herself. You should be doing the same. I do totally hear the pain and angst in your posts, because you truly love her and want another chance and fear there won't be one...I am not dismissing your heartbreak or how incredibly hard this is for you. But for now, for a few weeks at least, just put those things out of your mind and focus on yourself and not her. I know it will be hard and the thought of her will keep creeping back into your mind. But you must be firm with yourself that NOW is the time you must become a balanced person internally, and that really only has to do with you. You have made a good start at this, but the aim of your heart is still to win her back. Try whatever you have to do to change the aim of your heart into loving yourself. Love yourself so much that you will go through all processes necessary to balance yourself. Your emotions being tossed around are your sign that you are not very balanced. When you can think of her and feel a momentary sadness, but then change your thoughts about her to something loving toward her and then let it go, you will know you are rounding the corner.

You'll have to examine or somehow learn to mitigate your anger issues. They are yours, not hers. But at the same time, don't do it by beating yourself over and over for what you've done to her (you've done that enough now, time to just accept the past and not keep dwelling so much on the misery of it all). Face your anger issues with love and compassion for yourself and work through them. IMO, this doesn't necessarily have to happen by long term therapy or by parading out every moment of your childhood and all of life's disappointments that led to your anger. It can actually happen just by taking time to read about anger and the philosophy behind it...which is that our anger is always our choice. It is never thrust upon us (something that angry people literally cannot believe when they first hear it). Once you understand that you own something and can drop it when you are ready to, this alone can make you ready to drop it and never look back.

If you and she do talk within the next couple of weeks, please keep your distance and be determined not to run to her, but instead, run to yourself for safety. I mean by this, agree to the separation willingly, because you acknowledge that you need it too. Don't chase down any snif of a hint of reconciliation, for a few weeks at least. Don't try to soothe yourself with the possibility of it. Instead, soothe yourself by knowing that this time you are both taking is a necessary adjustment that may allow you both the happiness you deserve. Just know that you can't get back with her and be happy together until you go through this process willingly, and take space yourself to do it.

If you both take this time to individually regroup, then after a short time you may find reconciliation is on the table, being offered to her from her balanced self, and she's offering it to your balanced self. You can both authentically choose from there. Nothing will be done by guilt or desperation or fear or regret or angst or because they were bullied into it. It will be done from the real heart, the place you've both moved away from and need to individually center on again.

ETA: If she really is getting an apartment, I assume she will have to contact you about something, getting furniture or her other stuff or moving funds around or something. When she does, do not panic. Act like this is ok and is what you both need. Ask her what help she needs. But then I'm not saying you should be her moving company and be around her like that...you should help in a tangent way if you can, or help by calling an actual moving company or just discussing a budget for these things. Show her that you too want the separation to work on yourself. Resist the urge to ask her about her intentions for now, but if she shares them with you, just be open. Brace yourself for her possibly saying that she wants a divorce or has filed. Just know this might be coming, but that if you stay backed off and don't chase her or panic, you may be able to talk more and eventually, change the tide of this thing. I suggest you go ahead and show your fear or disappointment on your face, because that would be authentic. But then just get ahold of yourself and say something like "wow, ok, I heard you, but it is shocking to me to consider right now, can we please schedule a time to discuss it in the future, maybe in a week or two". 

If that doesn't happen....instead after a few weeks or months, I would reach out to her just once to say you have a heartfelt letter you'd like her to read, and to let you know when she is open to reading it. Then only send it when she asks you to.

Good luck....stay as calm and loving to yourself as possible.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

jld said:


> I hear your sincerity, lost. I am so sorry things have come to this.
> 
> I would send the letter.
> 
> I just do not see how she could resist a humble, contrite heart from you. Surely it would move her.


Thank your for your kind words. I'm sure sorry they have too, I really truly am. I'm on the fence with the letter. I need to go back and reread what I sent over the first couple of days. I sent a couple of emails, and one of them was more or less very similar to my reconciliation letter. I just think right now anything I say is being either ignored or discounted. I know I'll have the opportunity to see her eventually when she comes to pick up her things, so I may wait until then. I'm just not sure. But I do sure hope that you're right, and she'll be moved in some way. I at least hope it helps her to find closure, and maybe will open her up to a friendship. We will have to communicate in the future so she can see my son. Thanks again. Always appreciated.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> If you want to start getting out and meeting people take a look at meetup.com It's not a dating site. It's a site that people create meetups and other go. For example here where I live there are meetups for kayaking, hiking, car enthusiasts, book clubs, artists, musicians, and on and on. Just find things that look interesting and go. You will meet both men and women. it's not a dating or hookup site.


Thank you for the suggestion. I like the sound of that. I think it would help me to get out and meet some people. I'll definitely check that out.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Under no circumstances should you send the letter.
The last guy JLD recommended to send a letter, found it crumpled up on the cot he was being forced to sleep on in the basement.

It absolutely will cement in her mind that she is right to do what she is doing and will even feel better about leaving you.

The letter will :
Be read, scoffed at, and trashed, while cementing your self described badness in her mind.

Not be read, and trashed.

Be read and somehow she will make it known to you that she thinks you're a POS, and that there's no way you are ever getting another chance, and that the letter is just a tool used by you as a manipulative tactic to get her back.

I'm willbot be received in the manner that you wish it would be.

Follow the advice above and detach from her. It's your only chance at happiness. Do NOT wallow in self pity and stew in your own misery.

Your only chance to get her back is to be a strong person who can handle himself.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> I read your other thread. Here is what I suggest and if you actually do this, you will begin to feel a little better and a little better...and there might be hope for your marriage.
> 
> Take your wife's lead and take your own space. Which means, do like she is doing: She has stopped worrying about what you want and think and feel, and has started looking at what she wants and thinks and feels.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for all of your insight and for taking the time. It is really helpful. I wish I could figure out how to turn my thoughts away from her. I know I need to. I know I need to take the time for me and to learn to love myself again, but it just seems so impossible. My thoughts are consumed with her. I have been running around like crazy trying to distract myself with so many activities. But honestly, I just cannot gain much focus. I haven't been able to engage in a tv show or really concentrate on anything. I'm just not finding any enjoyment right now, but I'm really trying. I know I have to remember that it's not impossible and work towards refocusing on myself. I can't dwell forever. Right now, you all are my lifeline, and I'm grateful for your advice. 

I really haven't loved myself for a long time. How and when that came to be, I'm not sure. There are a lot of things about myself I'm not happy with, as you can tell. I have felt inadequate for a long time. I held a lot of resentment toward her for that. I should have been worried about the things I didn't like about myself. 

That sounds like great advice, as far as the separation, etc.. I have acknowledged to her that I accept the separation, and I have also acknowledged to her that I accept that she is done completely, according to her words a few days back. It's been incredibly hard to swallow, but I wanted her to know that I love her enough to let her go if that's what will really make her happy. Unfortunately, I've already made several attempts at reconciliation early on. I told her a few days ago I would stop bothering her, and I haven't tried again to contact her since. Very hard to do. I will stay strong and wait for her lead. 

As for my anger issues, I think that I can find some effective outlets and reading to guide me. I do intend to seek a counselor as well. Having trouble getting in right now, but eventually I do want to get at least a couple of sessions. I think I have felt enough humility over what my anger has brought me that I'm going to be literally afraid to get angry from now on. Hopefully, that part will be a downhill battle from here. 

I really do hope the option comes back on the table at some point. I just don't think I'll ever allow myself to believe that it's impossible, but I don't want it to consume me either. I guess this all shouldn't feel so abrupt, but it just does. I just never could have imagined a scenario that we wouldn't at least have a civil conversation about our life before moving on to this point. I have offered to help her and be there for her if need be. I hope she will allow me to. It seems like she's pretty intent on rejecting my involvement, but we'll see. I'll definitely keep my cool and try to keep my distance. Thanks so much again for your advice. It sounds like you know your stuff. I need all the help I can get right now. Take care.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Any attempt you make this get her back dill push her away faster.
All your are doing big is firmly placing in her mind that she is too good for you--- that you're too weak to move on, that you are trying to manipulate her, etc.

You have zero choice but yI move on. In doing so, you may garage n enough strength that become attractive to her again, but as least your husband will be attractive to someone. YOU can't do anything right now to change her mind, other than act like you're a man of steel and can be fine as wine without her. A woman doesn't react well to chasing.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Under no circumstances should you send the letter.
> The last guy JLD recommended to send a letter, found it crumpled up on the cot he was being forced to sleep on in the basement.
> 
> It absolutely will cement in her mind that she is right to do what she is doing and will even feel better about leaving you.
> ...


Agreed. Keep it, read it to yourself, but don't send it. Go no contact, and work on your self. You'd just come across as needy and weak if you sent it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Under no circumstances should you send the letter.
> The last guy JLD recommended to send a letter, found it crumpled up on the cot he was being forced to sleep on in the basement.
> 
> It absolutely will cement in her mind that she is right to do what she is doing and will even feel better about leaving you.
> ...


This is the thread Evinrude is referencing:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/376337-she-kicking-me-out.html

The OP has not updated for a few weeks, so we do not know what may have happened since. 

I do believe that a sincere, heartfelt letter can soften a woman's heart. There was a man here a few years ago whose wife came back to him after he wrote such a letter to her. His name was Stillkeepinghopeful, I believe. I will look for his thread.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

His name is Stillkindofhopefull:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...home-i-doubt-she-will-like-advice-please.html


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My opinion is that once a woman has months or years of detaching and building anger or resentment, a letter will do nothing but bolster her resolve to get out of the marriage. He wants her back. He's going to write a letter telling her all the misdeeds he committed and how he is sorry and is going to change. She expects this. It's going to make her feel manipulated and secure in her decision to leave since he is admitting he treated her horribly wrong. Even if he wasn't that bad, he will fall on the sword just to try to soften her heart toward him.
It just doesn't work.

When they get to this point.......
All you can do is move on and hope they have a change of heart on their own.

God, I wish it wasn't true. But it is.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Let her go, brother.

You have too much work to do on your self to try and bother hanging on to somebody who will continue to stunt your healing.

I can think of few things worse than an insecure person trying to heal while involved with a partner who hides the fact that she talks to multiple men online. You know this doesn't work, either.

Time for a reading assignment, brother. Read this through the prism of who you are, not who she is.

https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> My opinion is that once a woman has months or years of detaching and building anger or resentment, a letter will do nothing but bolster her resolve to get out of the marriage. He wants her back. He's going to write a letter telling her all the misdeeds he committed and how he is sorry and is going to change. She expects this. It's going to make her feel manipulated and secure in her decision to leave since he is admitting he treated her horribly wrong. Even if he wasn't that bad, he will fall on the sword just to try to soften her heart toward him.
> It just doesn't work.
> 
> When they get to this point.......
> ...


Unless you can see into her heart, you do not know any of this.

Lost, I think being as sincere as possible in life shows character, regardless of how other people react to it. Your regret over mistreating your wife is admirable. 

I certainly understand the need not to be pushy. If she is done with you, her decision should certainly be respected. But if there still is love in her heart, your respectful, but loving, contact will not go unnoticed.

I know which side I would err on . . .


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Unless you can see into her heart, you do not know any of this.
> 
> Lost, I think being as sincere as possible in life shows character, regardless of how other people react to it. Your regret over mistreating your wife is admirable.
> 
> ...



Nope, nope, nope. 

She moved out last Friday! Less than a week ago. Leave her alone! 

I've been where you are, OP. Several of us have been there (except jld, IIRC). The VERY few of us that got it 'right' did so by giving the space that was needed. No contact, no letter, nada. You both need to FEEL that separation. That sense of loss. That life has changed. 

And she WILL feel it. 

But not if you're pulling on that string. The invisible one that connects you. You both have to feel that the string has been cut. Or this 'separation' isn't real. 

And you have to do the same, when she pulls on it. And she will.

If at all practicable, agree to go No Contact with each other for a month. Except bills, kids etc. But otherwise, silence. 

Get your headspaces cleared, both of you. Work solely on yourselves. Exercise, counselling, self reflection.

Give her the letter later, maybe. WAY later. If you want to share with her how you felt at the time. They (ladies) love it when you let them in, to your feelings. It'll probably mean a lot more at that time, rather than now, when she's still still upset, confused... and angry.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

A heartfelt, contrite letter from a man I once loved would work on my conscience, however I might react to it at first. 

No contact at all might confirm my suspicions that he really did not care about me.

YMMV, lost.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I have never once in my five years on TAM ever seen a letter accomplish the goal of the writer.

DO NOT SEND SOME LETTER SHE CAN READ, DISCARD AND THEN MENTALLY LAUGH AT YOU.

LET HER GO!


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

DayOne said:


> Nope, nope, nope.
> 
> She moved out last Friday! Less than a week ago. Leave her alone!
> 
> ...


You've all been very helpful, and you've all made some good points on both sides regarding the letter. I think I like DayOne's perspective on this, and let me tell you why. If you missed it, I kind of already messed up the opportunity to do this right. I already spent the first couple of days begging, apologizing, and pleading that I was a changed man. I was as serious as I've ever been, but she didn't buy a word of it. In her position, so early on, she thought it was 100% BS. I poured my heart out, but she definitely didn't see it that way. So at least in my case, I think Day is right. I would hate if I never said anything and she left without even hearing my true feelings, so I don't really regret that I did it, since it was the truth. That being said, I hope that it didn't seal my fate with her forever. I have now accepted the separation, and we're on to day 3 of no contact at all. I just hope that it can still have the same benefits even after I already spilled the beans. Is that likely?


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

You've not 'spilled any beans'. As she won't have 'heard' you. For a very good reason. It's not real.

Yes, you're 'feeling' contrition, regret, loss. But right now it's due to your life being turned upside down. So NOW is when you take the time to let that initial feeling of panic pass. Then breath, and move forward.

Make it clear, when the opportunity arises, or when she questions why you're not 'there' (at the other end of the string). That you're respecting the need for space. That you agree it needs to happen, for both of you. 

No fate is sealed. But equally, no-one can predict how this will end up. All we, on TAM, can do is suggest to you what worked for us, at the point you're at in this time. And perhaps advise what course you may take as this progresses. 

I wish you well.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ButtPunch said:


> I have never once in my five years on TAM ever seen a letter accomplish the goal of the writer.
> 
> DO NOT SEND SOME LETTER SHE CAN READ, DISCARD AND THEN MENTALLY LAUGH AT YOU.
> 
> LET HER GO!


It worked for Stillkeepinghopefull.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lost_without_her said:


> You've all been very helpful, and you've all made some good points on both sides regarding the letter. I think I like DayOne's perspective on this, and let me tell you why. If you missed it, I kind of already messed up the opportunity to do this right. I already spent the first couple of days begging, apologizing, and pleading that I was a changed man. I was as serious as I've ever been, but she didn't buy a word of it. In her position, so early on, she thought it was 100% BS. I poured my heart out, but she definitely didn't see it that way. So at least in my case, I think Day is right. I would hate if I never said anything and she left without even hearing my true feelings, so I don't really regret that I did it, since it was the truth. That being said, I hope that it didn't seal my fate with her forever. I have now accepted the separation, and we're on to day 3 of no contact at all. I just hope that it can still have the same benefits even after I already spilled the beans. Is that likely?


Show her by your actions that you are changing. Any interaction you have with her should be respectful, the way you would want your own daughter treated by a man.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

jld said:


> It worked for Stillkeepinghopefull.


Just ignore the part in his thread where his wife had an affair while she was having her 'me time'...


And NOT sending letters, but instead writing and keeping them and instead giving her her space worked for me and my lady.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lost_without_her said:


> You've all been very helpful, and you've all made some good points on both sides regarding the letter. I think I like DayOne's perspective on this, and let me tell you why. If you missed it, I kind of already messed up the opportunity to do this right. I already spent the first couple of days begging, apologizing, and pleading that I was a changed man. I was as serious as I've ever been, but she didn't buy a word of it. In her position, so early on, she thought it was 100% BS. I poured my heart out, but she definitely didn't see it that way. So at least in my case, I think Day is right. I would hate if I never said anything and she left without even hearing my true feelings, so I don't really regret that I did it, since it was the truth. That being said, I hope that it didn't seal my fate with her forever. I have now accepted the separation, and we're on to day 3 of no contact at all. I just hope that it can still have the same benefits even after I already spilled the beans. Is that likely?


Day ONe's perspective is the 100% correct one. You are wise in listening to that, I believe.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

DayOne said:


> Just ignore the part in his thread where his wife had an affair while she was having her 'me time'...
> 
> 
> And NOT sending letters, but instead writing and keeping them and instead giving her her space worked for me and my lady.


It was an EA, much like lost's wife.

Stillkeepinghopefull read the link I gave you, lost. The letter he subsequently wrote his wife was part of the reason she gave the marriage another chance.

He returned a year or so ago and said they were continuing to improve. He was glad he did not give up on his marriage when times were hard.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Just after posting the above, my Lady called me to say hi (and let me know how her leg is doing). So I asked her for her opinion on whether to send the letter, as she was in exactly the same place as your Wife, after our D-Day (when she left).

She said to NOT send it. That she, at the time, would have needed the space. As your lady does. Without the distraction or guilt of MORE pleading. 

She agreed with my "Nope, nope, nope." post. That it summed up where we were, 2.5 years ago. 

So, let her breath, think, repair and heal.

And you do the same.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lost_without_her said:


> You've all been very helpful, and you've all made some good points on both sides regarding the letter. I think I like DayOne's perspective on this, and let me tell you why. If you missed it, I kind of already messed up the opportunity to do this right. I already spent the first couple of days begging, apologizing, and pleading that I was a changed man. I was as serious as I've ever been, but she didn't buy a word of it. In her position, so early on, she thought it was 100% BS. I poured my heart out, but she definitely didn't see it that way. So at least in my case, I think Day is right. I would hate if I never said anything and she left without even hearing my true feelings, so I don't really regret that I did it, since it was the truth. That being said, I hope that it didn't seal my fate with her forever. I have now accepted the separation, and we're on to day 3 of no contact at all. I just hope that it can still have the same benefits even after I already spilled the beans. Is that likely?


I don't think you sealed your fate when you begged and pleaded. It's if you continue that stuff and don't be strong that it WILL be sealed, because it will push her away. The ONLY way that she will ever truly reconcile is if you leave her alone and let her choose to come back. Then, when she is in a different state of mind toward you, would she be receptive to an apology letter or anything else from you.
I personally think you should let her go. DO NOT stay in limbo worrying if there's hope. It's counterproductive. Waiting for her and hoping will keep you in the same frame of mind you're in now. Weak, insecure, heartbroken, desperate. That is NOT going to attract your wife back to you. Having a steady job, a fun and exciting life, being happy, those things if she sees them WILL likely attract her back. But most likely she'll have a boyfriend within 6 months of moving out.

Best chance of getting her back long term----- totally move on with your life and forget about her. Only then will she possibly send out a tentacle and you can choose to be receptive or not.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don't think you sealed your fate when you begged and pleaded. It's if you continue that stuff and don't be strong that it WILL be sealed, because it will push her away. The ONLY way that she will ever truly reconcile is if you leave her alone and let her choose to come back. Then, when she is in a different state of mind toward you, would she be receptive to an apology letter or anything else from you.
> I personally think you should let her go. DO NOT stay in limbo worrying if there's hope. It's counterproductive. Waiting for her and hoping will keep you in the same frame of mind you're in now. Weak, insecure, heartbroken, desperate. That is NOT going to attract your wife back to you. Having a steady job, a fun and exciting life, being happy, those things if she sees them WILL likely attract her back. But most likely she'll have a boyfriend within 6 months of moving out.
> 
> Best chance of getting her back long term----- totally move on with your life and forget about her. Only then will she possibly send out a tentacle and you can choose to be receptive or not.


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## JBTX (May 4, 2017)

Do Not Send The Letter!! 

That is contact. You're three days into no contact and now you want to contact by letter? No! Don't make things worse with the letter! 

If anyone makes contact it should be her. Stay Backed Off. 


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Given the state of things it seems like checking out apartments is normal.

Stop stalking her calls.....stalking and smothering isn't going to do anything but make you crazy. And its creepy.

You have ample evidence that she isn't going to give you what you need to stop bullying and raging


Either because she can't or won't, I don't know which one. 

It's not healthy for either of you. 

Get some help and start fresh with a new partner.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Given the state of things it seems like checking out apartments is normal.
> 
> Stop stalking her calls.....stalking and smothering isn't going to do anything but make you crazy. And its creepy.
> 
> ...


You're right. I do feel guilty that I looked at the numbers. I did right away. I was doing really well, and then the email notification came up. Temptation got the better of me. I know the answer to my anger issues lies within myself. I've been watching videos about anger management. I spent the last hour making an Anger ID map to identify the things that made me so angry throughout my life. It was a desperate moment, and I let it take my focus away. I wish I could get into therapy sooner. Going to be weeks. Seeking all the other outlets I can in the meantime. Thank you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jld said:


> This is the thread Evinrude is referencing:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/376337-she-kicking-me-out.html
> 
> ...


FAT CHANCE if she is done. Usually when we get to the point that we leave in the way that OP's wife left, we are so far DONE nothing is going to change it. His letter would only serve to further disgust her. She will have WAY more respect for him if he continues to give her space and give the marriage an amicable end. 

I have BEEN that done. There was not a single thing he could have done or said that would have made me stay, NOTHING. The crying and begging and emoting only made me more determined to get as far as fast as I could, and made him look pathetic.


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## JBTX (May 4, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> FAT CHANCE if she is done. Usually when we get to the point that we leave in the way that OP's wife left, we are so far DONE nothing is going to change it. His letter would only serve to further disgust her. She will have WAY more respect for him if he continues to give her space and give the marriage an amicable end.
> 
> 
> 
> I have BEEN that done. There was not a single thing he could have done or said that would have made me stay, NOTHING. The crying and begging and emoting only made me more determined to get as far as fast as I could, and made him look pathetic.




100% agree. The letter will make her feel negative emotions toward the OP at this point. The OP does not need that. And neither does his wife. 

OP think about the letter like this: Compare it to a love letter from an admirer at school when you were growing up that you had no interest in whatsoever. It's that feeling you had then only times 1000 for your wife. 


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

JBTX said:


> 100% agree. The letter will make her feel negative emotions toward the OP at this point. The OP does not need that. And neither does his wife.
> 
> OP think about the letter like this: Compare it to a love letter from an admirer at school when you were growing up that you had no interest in whatsoever. It's that feeling you had then only times 1000 for your wife.
> 
> ...


I will definitely reserve the letter for a time that she indicates she could appreciate it, if such a time ever comes. That being said, it's a very specific reconciliation letter based on a link that was shared. The article is actually a pretty interesting read, and I think the approach could be effective for less severe cases. Not mine, but maybe for someone. It has worked for some. It is a genuine letter showing only interest in acknowledging how she must feel, letting her know that I know her feelings are valid. Nothing more. It's not intended to reconcile the marriage really, it's intended to help with healing and closure. I think it's more about reconciling any chance to have a peaceful coexistence. We will have to interact going forward when she comes to see my son, so even if it doesn't ever make her think it's possible to work things out, I want us to be able to be friendly going forward. I do hope some day she will be receptive to the letter, whether we try again or not. I think I would appreciate such a letter myself. In general, I'm flattered when someone pursues me with a letter in some way. I get what you're saying, but I think there are quite a bit of gray areas with this. It was a good exercise for me to write the letter, I feel. It helped me to reflect with real empathy for how she likely is feeling. I would recommend writing one whether you send it or not. Hopefully one day she might appreciate it. I've ID'd my anger issues over this last week, but in all honesty, she has anger issues too. She wasn't reactive about her anger issues like me, she bottled them in. Always has. My actions made that even worse. I hope it might help her to forgive me one day and let go of the anger she has toward me. Maybe that will never be the case.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lost_without_her said:


> I will definitely reserve the letter for a time that she indicates she could appreciate it, if such a time ever comes. That being said, it's a very specific reconciliation letter based on a link that was shared. The article is actually a pretty interesting read, and I think the approach could be effective for less severe cases. Not mine, but maybe for someone. It has worked for some. It is a genuine letter showing only interest in acknowledging how she must feel, letting her know that I know her feelings are valid. Nothing more. It's not intended to reconcile the marriage really, it's intended to help with healing and closure. I think it's more about reconciling any chance to have a peaceful coexistence. We will have to interact going forward when she comes to see my son, so even if it doesn't ever make her think it's possible to work things out, I want us to be able to be friendly going forward. I do hope some day she will be receptive to the letter, whether we try again or not. I think I would appreciate such a letter myself. In general, I'm flattered when someone pursues me with a letter in some way. I get what you're saying, but I think there are quite a bit of gray areas with this. It was a good exercise for me to write the letter, I feel. It helped me to reflect with real empathy for how she likely is feeling. I would recommend writing one whether you send it or not. Hopefully one day she might appreciate it. I've ID'd my anger issues over this last week, but in all honesty, she has anger issues too. She wasn't reactive about her anger issues like me, she bottled them in. Always has. My actions made that even worse. I hope it might help her to forgive me one day and let go of the anger she has toward me. Maybe that will never be the case.


There are other good articles on that site, too, including one on the timing of giving the letter: 


_When is the best time to give your wife the letter?

A common question I receive relates to the timing of a letter. For example, some guys wonder if they should give it to their wife on a special day, ie: “Should I wait for our anniversary? ...Mother’s Day? ...birthday?” ...etc. Some guys feel that they have to get it to their wife quickly in order to stop her from going forward with the divorce: “Our divorce is final next week. Please hurry and critique the letter, so I can give it to her before we go to court.”

These kinds of questions and requests are understandable. However, they come from the wrong perspective. *Such comments are only made if a man forgets that the primary goal of his letter is not to win his wife back, but to facilitate healing in her heart. Yes, he wants to restore his marriage, but that may only happen as a side effect of helping his wife’s heart to heal.*

Brother, if you have come to a fresh understanding about how you wounded your wife and how she continues to suffer because of your wounds, then there would be no possible way you would consider waiting until a special day to give her your letter. Waiting for a special moment to give her the letter would be like stepping on someone’s bare foot and then writing a note of apology to read to them when the time is right. You wouldn’t do that. In fact, as soon as you hear them cry out in pain and see the tears in their eyes, you pull your foot back and give them your attention. You would help them find a seat or call for someone to bring ice to quell the swelling. Their pain causes you to immediately respond to bring comfort or healing. 

*In the same way, if you have come to a new awareness of how much in pain your wife is in from wounds you have inflicted, you won’t want to postpone playing a part in her healing.* You won’t wait for a special moment to present your wife with your letter or give it to her tucked into a romantic card, because it will appear to her that you don’t really get it. *In her mind, if you really understood how you hurt her, you would rush to her side to care for her wounds with words of empathy and compassion.*

When a guy submits to me a letter to be critiqued, the turnaround time is typically from 3 days to 3 weeks, depending on my travel schedule and how many submitted letters I have in the cue. On occasion it may be longer if I am traveling doing conventions. This wait presents a problem for a guy who sees his wife pulling further and further away with every passing day. If you are one of those guys who wants to hurry and get your letter to your wife before she takes the next step in divorce or separation, don’t forget that your primary goal is not to restore the relationship. That will be a possible outcome if you are able to bring healing to your wife. If you think you must hurry, you will do something desperate and foolish, and it is likely you will further alienate her. More than a few guys, who submitted to me their letters, didn’t want to wait for me to return them, so gave their wives their uncritiqued letters. Unfortunately, the letters were weak or full of damaging statements, so instead of helping, these guys hurt their chances of restoration. It is hard to be patient when we think that the more time passes, the less likely we will see reconciliation. So a guy must remember that his goal is to craft a letter that will help his wife heal from the emotional wounds he inflicted over the years. 

One man wrote back that in the 5 days he waited for his critiqued letter, his final divorce hearing had taken place. He thought that since he was now officially divorced that it was too late and the letter was no longer needed. *The fact that a divorce has taken place does not remove your wife’s need for her heart to be healed. She still needs healing and it is not impossible for a divorced woman to once again desire her husband. In fact, if it wasn’t possible, I couldn’t do this ministry. *I have heard testimonies from many couples who remarried after the divorce was final. One couple was married 30 years before the wife filed for divorce. They were apart 3 years before they got back together and remarried. I get reports all the time of couples restored after being separated or divorced for months or years. *One man struggling to keep together his second marriage told me that he had changed so radically since visiting UltimateHusband.com, that his first wife saw the change and was starting to pursue him to restore their marriage.*

The key to remember is that God is involved with healing of hearts and healing of marriages._


The Ultimate Husband


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Here is another beautiful one:

_*I gave her my letter. Now what?*

It is critical to remember that the goal of your letter is not specifically to get your wife to reconcile with you, but to help her heal from the wounds you inflicted over the years. The letter is not magic and may not change anything. *Your wife may have cried as she read it – if she was willing to read it.* She may have been impacted and softened towards you, and may even thank you. Or she may have grown angry and said, “Too little, too late.” *If she sensed your empathy in the letter, she may now be open to trusting you again, and will start watching your life to see if your life matches your words.*

*The real evidence of a heart change is if you stay consistent despite your wife’s present reactions.* She may watch you for months to see if your profession of repentance is genuine. She may antagonize you to see how you respond. One thing I can promise -- if you are frustrated by your safety-seeking wife, you will not be able to hide it. In her mind, you owe her greatly, and any frustration on your part will demonstrate to her that you are not aware of the depth of your offense or the significance of her hurt condition. She will also view any obsessiveness, intensity, and pushiness towards her as evidence that you have not changed. The more you maintain frustration toward her, the more you diminish your chances of regaining her heart. 

*Don’t broach the subject of reconciliation with her unless it is obvious that her heart is softening and she is interested in restoration.* She invested for years in your marriage and doesn’t casually throw it all away. If she sees genuine change, you will be attractive to her and she may desire restoration without you bringing it up. And if she doesn’t bring it up, in your heart you can’t blame her, since you want her to feel safe as much as she does. *If in your heart you are genuinely distressed at yourself for treating her the way you have, then you will have no temptation to do anything but protect her – especially from yourself.*

What if she responds with silence to the letter?

If your wife responds with silence to the letter and doesn’t mention it, it may be for several reasons:

1. She didn’t read it.

2. She read it and may have been touched by it, but is still angry so doesn’t want to give you the pleasure of seeing her respond or at all.

3. She wants to feel justified in her decision to break up the family and is committed to her path, so needs you to be angry or antagonistic because she wants to continue the direction she is going. She may even try to push your buttons and start a fight with you, just to feel better about herself. (Therefore, you must refuse to be drawn in. Let your compassion for her bitter condition filter your reactions.)

4. She was touched by the letter, but feels that if she softens, then she loses her power position in the relationship. Remember that she felt out of control for a long time, and her decision to separate was a move to keep herself safe, so she won’t easily want to relinquish her position of safety. 

5. She has reached the final stage of bitterness, so thinks you are as evil as Darth Vader. She despises you so much that she will find fault with everything you do. 

6. It is possible you didn't have your letter critiqued by me and she was so offended by it, that she was convinced you are hopeless and not worth speaking to about it.

What if she refuses to read the letter?
If your wife refuses to read your letter, ask her if she is willing for you to read it to her in person or over the phone. If she still refuses, then assure her it is a letter that she will like and suggest that she have someone close to her read it first and decide if she would want to read it. If you think she may be likely to refuse your letter, you may even want to write that suggestion on the outside of the envelope. 


What if she accuses me of having someone else write the letter?
Tell her the truth -- that you submitted your letter to your counselor for help with ideas and sentence structure.


That’s all you can do. Remember that the exercise of writing a letter was to help you learn how to understand and communicate with your wife. Take to heart the following tips:

1. Don't press her for a response – at all.

2. Continue to educate yourself about becoming the Ultimate Husband. If you haven’t heard them yet, it would be time to listen to the series Captains Through the Storm.

3. Don’t fall back into the habit of trying to woo her with romance. Romantic expressions are intended to draw attention back to oneself and don’t restore trust. Don’t forget that a tender manner and concern for her well-being will make you far more attractive than a dozen roses and a coupon for a day at the spa.

4. In your interactions with her, don’t talk about how you are doing, unless she asks. Even if she asks, be careful. It would probably be best to respond, “I’m doing okay, but you’re the one who’s been through so much. I just want you to be doing well.”

*If the words in your letter genuinely reflect your heart, and you are now a man of understanding who is not just trying to regain what you've lost, you'll wait and interact with your wife patiently. It could take weeks or maybe even months, if she softens at all. Just remember that you are not being patient and compassionate for the purpose of winning her back – you are being different, because you ARE different. You have new insights and new values now.*

You’ve sought to make amends with her, so continue to do what’s right. Since you are hoping for restoration, from a human standpoint you’re doing all that you can do._


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Not only do I think it's useless and inappropriate, sending the letter would also amount to disrespecting her wish to be left alone. 

So go put it in a box, tie it to a balloon and watch it float away, burn it, or bury it. But don't send it.


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