# Digging for Gold



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

On several threads/comments when a guy talks about how a man should develop himself to his fullest potential (in all areas, including financial) to have the best options someone will usually respond with the notion those additional options are somehow bad. Usually a few gold-digger comments will be thrown around as well.

Meanwhile in other threads, we are telling women they can "do better" than the loser they married. 

You gals can't win! Go after a successful man, you're a gold-digger. If you date the guy who is a fry cook, you're wasting your time and you should do better.

For myself, I don't have an issue with digging for gold. My issue is unrealistic expectations. If you qualify to be in the same weight class as the men's heavyweight boxing champ but you have a list a mile long of what a man needs to bring to the table, that's a problem. 

Thoughts, comments, complaints??


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

No clue... I was highly educated when I was searching for a wife and had my own apartment and a fairly new vehicle so apparently the, “Hey baby. I have a car AND a job.” line was a winner for me.


----------



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Well, some men and women are rotten; others aren't. 

I think when good people are in a bad relationship we _should_ tell them they can do better. Right?

I read some of the threads here about how a man should develop himself to his "full potential," and the criticisms .... I think the disconnect develops here because the "fullest potential" described was incredibly subjective. Maybe even a little shallow or immature?

Like yeah, when I was a teenage boy, I might have listened to a guy telling me my goals in life should be to have a six-pack, make $100K a year, and nail every woman he wants... but guess what? by my late 20's every idiot I knew who aspired to that kind of shallow existence had flamed out in their career for one reason or another (usually because they couldn't actually DO anything in the office besides talk about themselves), and was going through or headed to some kind of mental breakdown because the world was very different than they wanted to believe it was. 

and $100K doesn't go as far as people think it does, trust me...


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

TomNebraska said:


> Well, some men and women are rotten; others aren't.
> 
> I think when good people are in a bad relationship we _should_ tell them they can do better. Right?
> 
> ...


Very true, I was saying I could see in general how there's a dual message on larger scale of gold digging bad, but don't settle.

I think your first line covers that, some people are rotten. I think those are good goals to start because along the way a guy would hopefully realize it's actually the process of becoming better in those areas. For every office idiot who can't shut up there are probably 2 or 3 other guys who are quietly killing it and never speak a word because they're just living their lives.

Agreed, 100k is middle class. I'd argue it's a dangerous number, it's enough for most to be comfortable with one stream of income (job) and not keep pushing.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

From my personal experience I can tell you that the meaning of a good career, money and such in my 20's is much different then it was in my 40's. 

And you are right 100k does not go that far


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I'll give you a different perspective...I don't think there is anything wrong with guys dating gold diggers, with one caveat - don't be blind. By definition, it's the 'gold' these people find attractive. Don't assume their declaration of love and devotion has anything to do with "you" as a person. 

On the other side, i advise young women to avoid becoming a gold digger because they'll earn every penny on their backs.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Ugh...


----------



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Al_Bundy said:


> Very true, I was saying I could see in general how there's a dual message on larger scale of gold digging bad, but don't settle.
> 
> I think your first line covers that, some people are rotten. I think those are good goals to start because along the way a guy would hopefully realize it's actually the process of becoming better in those areas. For every office idiot who can't shut up there are probably 2 or 3 other guys who are quietly killing it and never speak a word because they're just living their lives.
> 
> Agreed, 100k is middle class. I'd argue it's a dangerous number, it's enough for most to be comfortable with one stream of income (job) and not keep pushing.


I think shooting for "$X,000" salary is a little ridiculous. Quality of life is dependent on so much more than that. 

Before grad school, and student loan debt, I thought "_$100K per year... MAN! If I had that, the possibilities would be endless!_"

Then after I got my first salaried position, after a year of toiling in the "temp worker" mines, when I was finally making close to that, I was like... "_Oh. It's $100K... MINUS state and federal tax withholding, minus social security, Medicare, Medicaid, health insurance premiums, and whatever I plan to put away for retirement... so more like $72,000. Then divide that by 26 for bi-weekly payperiods. I'll have $2,750/paycheck. And from that I have rent, car payments, insurance, food, internet, and have to pay back these student loans. Better not spend it all in one place..._"

I was doing well, don't get me wrong, but far from feeling like a big spender. I realized how you can't look at personal goals as ends in themselves, but have to think in multi-year phases of your life.

I just don't think there's anything inconsistent between telling women (or men) here "You can do better than the loser you're with" and at the same time, telling some of the "Rock Hard Abs & 6' Foot Beefcake" guys that their self improvement goals aren't going to lead them to the promised land or whatever.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

I think what it comes down to is doing what makes YOU happy, whatever that may be. I was happy without the 6 pack, car, house, etc. And I am happy having all those things..... But one thing I can say is that you best bet is to stay away from the gold diggers and the lunkheads.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> On the other side, i advise young women to avoid becoming a gold digger because they'll earn every penny on their backs.



Seeing all the posters here that haven’t had sex in literally years, that makes me think that they aren’t even holding up that end of the bargain.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

TomNebraska said:


> I think shooting for "$X,000" salary is a little ridiculous. Quality of life is dependent on so much more than that.
> 
> Before grad school, and student loan debt, I thought "_$100K per year... MAN! If I had that, the possibilities would be endless!_"
> 
> ...


This reminded me of a clip I saw of Shaq talking about getting his first NBA paycheck and wondering where the rest of his money was. Who's FICA?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm just glad Mrs. Conan and I were doing our thing nearly thirty years ago. I've been paying more attention since TAMmers have been talking about it and it's gotten weird out there!


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I have no problem at all with gold diggers. People act like a woman insisting that her man makes X amount of dollars is a bad thing, but compared to every other criteria people have in dating, it's not all that bad. At least if she is a so-called gold digger, she is likely going to provide a better life for her future family, unlike the woman who just blindly follows chemistry and has 3 kids with a broke dude who won't pay child support. 

I also don't think it is a coincidence that like 99% of the exceptionally attractive women I have met end up with very successful guys. I wouldn't even call them gold diggers, they just have better options.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Al_Bundy said:


> My issue is unrealistic expectations. If you qualify to be in the same weight class as the men's heavyweight boxing champ but you have a list a mile long of what a man needs to bring to the table, that's a problem.


That really doesn’t have anything to do with gold digging, that is simply hypergamy. 

The male equivalent of that is the fat, unkempt guy that sits in his sweatpants and pit-stained T-shirt playing video games in his mom’s basement all day thinking he should be able to score with a hot chick.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> I have no problem at all with gold diggers. People act like a woman insisting that her man makes X amount of dollars is a bad thing, but compared to every other criteria people have in dating, it's not all that bad. At least if she is a so-called gold digger, she is likely going to provide a better life for her future family, unlike the woman who just blindly follows chemistry and has 3 kids with a broke dude who won't pay child support.
> 
> I also don't think it is a coincidence that like 99% of the exceptionally attractive women I have met end up with very successful guys. I wouldn't even call them gold diggers, they just have better options.


This goes along with the thought that having money does open up more attractive people into your dating pool


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> On several threads/comments when a guy talks about how a man should develop himself to his fullest potential (in all areas, including financial) to have the best options someone will usually respond with the notion those additional options are somehow bad. Usually a few gold-digger comments will be thrown around as well.
> 
> Meanwhile in other threads, we are telling women they can "do better" than the loser they married.
> 
> ...


You been watching Kevin Samuels?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> This goes along with the thought that having money does open up more attractive people into your dating pool


More attractive gold diggas!😉


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> More attractive gold diggas!😉


Truer words never spoken!


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I don’t think there’s anything fundamentally wrong with gold digging, sugar babying or even outright prostitution as long as it is between consenting adults where each know the score.

Where things go off the rails is not when women get with a guy because he has money.

Where things go off the rails is when the guy thinks she is into him because she is hot for his bod and hot for his d!ck like he is hot for her bod....... and then he is completely lost and clueless what do do when she stops screwing him and has one excuse after another. 

With a sugar baby or actual hooker, it is a known transactional relationship going into it and when she no longer has it in her to have sex with him or starts trying to raise the rent exponentially, he terminates the contract and moves on to the next.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> This goes along with the thought that having money does open up more attractive people into your dating pool


In my experience it does. There is a lot of that going on here at the beach. Just PRETENDING you have money here is enough to score you plenty of beautiful ladies. I knew an old guy in his 60's that was dating 20 year old models because he lied and said he had money. I am sure he gave them cash here and there but he was far from rich.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Enigma32 said:


> In my experience it does. There is a lot of that going on here at the beach. Just PRETENDING you have money here is enough to score you plenty of beautiful ladies. I knew an old guy in his 60's that was dating 20 year old models because he lied and said he had money. I am sure he gave them cash here and there but he was far from rich.


Even if you are rich, if you go shelling out cash for 20 year old models, you ain’t gonna be rich for long. 

But even if you aren’t rich, if you are in your 60s and can still get it up, what else are you going to want to shell your money out on? Doctor bills? Your kid’s inheritance? Pfffttt!!

You can do it and can get what you believe to be your money’s worth out of it - go for it!!

And if the chicks are getting what they think is a fair shake for their efforts,,, that’s just free enterprise as far as I’m concerned.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> In my experience it does. There is a lot of that going on here at the beach. Just PRETENDING you have money here is enough to score you plenty of beautiful ladies. I knew an old guy in his 60's that was dating 20 year old models because he lied and said he had money. I am sure he gave them cash here and there but he was far from rich.


It would come out eventually, I would imagine. Especially when she starts asking for that ring or the BMW


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Even if you are rich, if you go shelling out cash for 20 year old models, you ain’t gonna be rich for long.
> 
> But even if you aren’t rich, if you are in your 60s and can still get it up, what else are you going to want to shell your money out on? Doctor bills? Your kid’s inheritance? Pfffttt!!
> 
> ...


Reminds me of a quote and I don't know who said it but it goes. "I don't pay her for sex, I pay her to leave"


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Al_Bundy said:


> On several threads/comments when a guy talks about how a man should develop himself to his fullest potential (in all areas, including financial) to have the best options someone will usually respond with the notion those additional options are somehow bad. Usually a few gold-digger comments will be thrown around as well.
> 
> Meanwhile in other threads, we are telling women they can "do better" than the loser they married.
> 
> ...


Depends what kind of gold digging.

If you are gold (whatever that means to you) then you don't care if your girl was digging for it.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Seeing all the posters here that haven’t had sex in literally years, that makes me think that they aren’t even holding up that end of the bargain.


I had an internal chuckle when I read this. Do we have that many men reading TAM who married gold diggers?


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> I also don't think it is a coincidence that like 99% of the exceptionally attractive women I have met end up with very successful guys. I wouldn't even call them gold diggers, they just have better options.


That's interesting. In my experience, the unattractive and attractive women I know have had about the same level of success ending up with successful guys. The only difference is that my majority of my attractive friends were not successful in their own right before meeting their partners. My less attractive friends were. Sadly, divorce statistics are what they are. Half of us are divorced. Take a wild guess which husbands/ long term partners were happier in the long haul.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> I had an internal chuckle when I read this. Do we have that many men reading TAM who married gold diggers?


Only after I caught her cheating and divorced her LOL


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> That really doesn’t have anything to do with gold digging, that is simply hypergamy.
> 
> The male equivalent of that is the fat, unkempt guy that sits in his sweatpants and pit-stained T-shirt playing video games in his mom’s basement all day thinking he should be able to score with a hot chick.


Actually @oldshirt I think the equivalent would be the fat, unkempt guy, socially inept guy that think he should score the hot chick because he makes good money. He's the target audience for gold diggers.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> Only after I caught her cheating and divorced her LOL


Sorry that happened to you. 

I don't have an issue with gold diggers or sugar babies or even age gap relationships between men and women but unless the men are cold hearted, they rarely work out right.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> Sorry that happened to you.
> 
> I don't have an issue with gold diggers or sugar babies or even age gap relationships between men and women but unless the men are cold hearted, they rarely work out right.


I agree


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

There are qualities that will get you laid and qualities that will attract a good wife and qualities that will attract gold diggers.

I don't have problems with marriage for non romantic reasons as long as everyone is up front and honors their vows.

It is also happens less but some men are gold diggers too.

I just saw a video that had a large woman (very unhealthy range) that was a millionaire who got this scraggly guy. I don't think she got her money's worth.....


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I just saw a video that had a large woman (very unhealthy range) that was a millionaire who got this scraggly guy. I don't think she got her money's worth.....


if I had that much money, you better believe i would be investing in lap band surgery followed by cosmetic surgery to lift, nip, and tuck every body part. Different priorities I guess.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> if I had that much money, you better believe i would be investing in lap band surgery followed by cosmetic surgery to lift, nip, and tuck every body part. Different priorities I guess.


She was big big. You could tell she just liked to eat. I still think she could of, and should of, gotten more bang for her buck but she might have deluded herself that it was purely love and natural attraction. Who knows.... Maybe it was but he looked like a heavy metal band rock star without the star quality.😁

I might have been clumsy here.😳


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I think the label of gold digger is one that is primarily given by other women. You don’t here men calling people gold diggers that often.

Women will call a women that is mostly drawn to a man’s money a gold digger.

Men will just call her a woman, wife, GF, whatever. 

I think men kind of instinctively know that women will be drawn to men with money. It’s what motivates physically unattractive men to strive for fame and fortune. They know their looks and physical presence are not going to cut it. 

It’s probably what motivated Todd Rungren to learn to sing and Steve Forbes to go into publishing LOL


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> if I had that much money, you better believe i would be investing in lap band surgery followed by cosmetic surgery to lift, nip, and tuck every body part. Different priorities I guess.


I think this is another example of hypergamy at play and I’m willing to bet many fat and unattractive would do exactly that. 

The reason I say it’s an example of hypergamy is regardless of how financially successful a woman becomes, she will still want a man that is MORE successful than her. 

And simply aren’t attracted to monetary wealth in women like women are to men.

The men that are more successful than the woman in question here will be looking towards slimmer and prettier women so for the fat but rich woman, she will still have to increase her physical beauty to get a more successful man.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I think this is another example of hypergamy at play and I’m willing to bet many fat and unattractive would do exactly that.
> 
> The reason I say it’s an example of hypergamy is regardless of how financially successful a woman becomes, she will still want a man that is MORE successful than her.
> 
> ...


I’m not sure of her current status, but at one time the richest, nonroyal, single woman was Oprah Winfrey. 

How many rich, powerful men were knocking on her door or offering to fly her to their yacht in the Mediterranean vs 21 year Swedish bikini models?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I think this is another example of hypergamy at play and I’m willing to bet many fat and unattractive would do exactly that.
> 
> The reason I say it’s an example of hypergamy is regardless of how financially successful a woman becomes, she will still want a man that is MORE successful than her.
> 
> ...


The gal I'm talking about got a scraggly bum I think...


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I think this is another example of hypergamy at play and I’m willing to bet many fat and unattractive would do exactly that.
> 
> The reason I say it’s an example of hypergamy is regardless of how financially successful a woman becomes, she will still want a man that is MORE successful than her.
> 
> ...


Whoa, that's a big leap. I never said I would do that to attract a more successful man. Actually I didn't say I would do that to attract ANY man. I'm not sure of her age, but I'd do it to look better than all of my girlfriends. 

Seriously, not everything women do when it comes.to enhancing beauty is to attract a man.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> Whoa, that's a big leap. I never said I would do that to attract a more successful man. Actually I didn't say I would do that to attract ANY man. I'm not sure of her age, but I'd do it to look better than all of my girlfriends.
> 
> Seriously, not everything women do when it comes.to enhancing beauty is to attract a man.


It also just feels good to look good. Nobody can say otherwise.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I’m not sure of her current status, but at one time the richest, nonroyal, single woman was Oprah Winfrey.
> 
> How many rich, powerful men were knocking on her door or offering to fly her to their yacht in the Mediterranean vs 21 year Swedish bikini models?


Oh come on now. You know that saying " there's no such thing as a free lunch" applies to that 21 year old being flown to the Mediterranean. I hope she likes the guy cause she'll be paying for her trip on her back. 

Oprah doesn't need a free flight anywhere. She probably owns her own yacht in the Mediterranean, one which she can use to lure a man (or woman) for good times.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

This is the woman I was referring to.









Gabourey Sidibe And Her Boyfriend Brandon Frankel Are Officially Engaged


"My BFF proposed and now I get to hold him forever."




www.buzzfeed.com





Here is a Kevin Samuels video where he talks about her marrying down.

I don't agree with everything Kevin talks about but I think he has some good points.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> She was big big. You could tell she just liked to eat. I still think she could of, and should of, gotten more bang for her buck but she might have deluded herself that it was purely love and natural attraction. Who knows.... Maybe it was but he looked like a heavy metal band rock star without the star quality.😁
> 
> I might have been clumsy here.😳


Conan you’re maybe not wrong about the heavy metal aspect.

As a heavy metal type of guy myself I have to say that maybe twice it has resulted in me having some interest from women who were out of my league looks wise. You gotta know your role.

Especially if said woman hears you play guitar or better yet sees you perform with a band. Such is the genesis of shirts like “Come get the” and then a chord box diagram of a D chord. I would never wear such a crass shirt myself, but I can say it is a thing.


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Gold digging, money... ehhhh.

Things ebb and flow, money means very little because in life your financial situation fluctuates from month to month, let alone over a lifetime!

What seems like a big salary isn’t always permanent, and the poor man might know how to manage his money better and be really content with who he is. And then he might blow his savings anyway.

Nothing is permanent, especially the figures in someone’s bank account.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I used to be the long haired, heavy metal type guy when I was younger too. It definitely helps a guy score with ladies that would otherwise be out of his league. It won't appeal to all ladies, or even most ladies, but the ones it does appeal to, they really, really like it. A guy doesn't have to attract all women as long as a few thinks he's the best thing ever.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Conan you’re maybe not wrong about the heavy metal aspect.
> 
> As a heavy metal type of guy myself I have to say that maybe twice it has resulted in me having some interest from women who were out of my league looks wise. You gotta know your role.
> 
> Especially if said woman hears you play guitar or better yet sees you perform with a band. Such is the genesis of shirts like “Come get the” and then a chord box diagram of a D chord. I would never wear such a crass shirt myself, but I can say it is a thing.


On second thought, I don't think that guy looks tough enough to be a heavy metal star.....

Just kinda scraggly.😉


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Conan you’re maybe not wrong about the heavy metal aspect.
> 
> As a heavy metal type of guy myself I have to say that maybe twice it has resulted in me having some interest from women who were out of my league looks wise. You gotta know your role.
> 
> Especially if said woman hears you play guitar or better yet sees you perform with a band. Such is the genesis of shirts like “Come get the” and then a chord box diagram of a D chord. I would never wear such a crass shirt myself, but I can say it is a thing.


I was told by Andy that I looked like a roady for Bon Jovi when I was 19.😆


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

So...here's the thing. I am not interested in dating anyone right now. But I have always gone for guys who care about family first, and money only insofar as it supports stability, because I find very mercenary people to be offputting. I like people who have passion for what they do. And I have dated guys who have seemed self-sufficient and then down the line attempted to mooch off me in some way or another. I have had enough of that. I wouldn't mind going dutch if I ever got back out there again. But I do see self-sufficiency as even more important now. I made dumb mistake in my last relationship co-signing a car loan for my then-long-term-boyfriend's son, who was also living with us. He needed it to get to school because we lived so far away, but I deeply regret getting financially entangled. It complicated everything and made me question later whether BF was just in it for the money. I think that's always an issue. I don't have an enormous income, but I have a few assets and some investments. And that created resentment too. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't choose to become involved with someone who has less money than me because it makes things really complicated. And sadly it seldom works out if the stats are to be believed.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Call me old fashioned but I always paid for everything (and still do). I like paying and expect to pay. I like that my wife wants me to pay and is/was happy when I paid.

I give her all the money I make for the most part and just keep a small amount for investment. My only stipulation is if I go to buy normal petty cash stuff the checking account doesn’t overdraft.

I do keep my stock though, although if she wants money from those accounts she just tells me how much to transfer to the accounts she manages. Ex. paying taxes or paying for an expensive trip, etc...

It worked for my parents who have been married closing in on 50 years so I just copied it.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

I fully agree as far as gold digging or sugar arrangements as long as the guy doesn't think she's into him as a person or that he craves her thoughts on politics, they will be fine. 

There always has been this slight undercurrent, probably from other women, that if a guy goes after a women with looks that he'll be sacrificing getting a "good woman". I've even heard people tell a guy after a breakup that he was thinking with the wrong head just because she was hot. Like ok, fat chicks don't cheat? No telling what tubby would do for a free up-size.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> That really doesn’t have anything to do with gold digging, that is simply hypergamy.
> 
> The male equivalent of that is the fat, unkempt guy that sits in his sweatpants and pit-stained T-shirt playing video games in his mom’s basement all day thinking he should be able to score with a hot chick.


Very true, they still have it even though they can't act on it. I guess I'm saying there was a time when they knew they couldn't act on it. Now you have women who weigh almost what I bench who firmly believing they are entitled to a top tier guy.


----------



## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

I have to say - I find this discussion disappointing. I thought I would find a new, proper set of vows.

"I promise to honor, love, cherish, obey, and clean my man's snout, 'til death do me part."


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Seems to me if you judge your value by how much money you make, you will probably end up with a women who sees your value the same way. I mean if you use that to judge yourself you shouldn't have a problem if she does too. You better never lose ground then either. 

If you see your value by your character, which of course, a part of that includes making a decent living you will find a women who feels the same way. Seems a lot safer and more healthy way to see life.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My ex-wife stuck with me when I didn't have a full time job, no career, no education, no prospects. Yet I always kept my head above easily, and became sole provider immediately working 84 hrs a week until I succeeded in my own business. Fast forward divorce and years later, I was on the verge of financial suicide when I met my now partner, then the 'rona threw me off the cliff regardless 

Yet here I am now, living quite humbly, without my boat and gliders after selling them, and back on the drawing board on my next big thing. Reaction from my partner? None, because that's not what is important. I still support myself and my daughter as well as always having a comfortable income (fine, not quite financial suicide yet  ), no debts, transportation and roof over my head, and I consider that the essential financial standard any woman should have. But all the luxuries are from a previous life and I probably won't have them again. For a woman to love me like this, well, that's a standard I have as well


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> No clue... I was highly educated when I was searching for a wife and had my own apartment and a fairly new vehicle so apparently the, “Hey baby. I have a car AND a job.” line was a winner for me.


I also think it very much depends on which culture you are from. In the anglo-american culture, love trumps all apparently. However in east asia women look out for the 5 c's Cash, Car, Credit card, Condominium and Country club membership. Go figure.


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

An wealthy old guy was dating a twenty year old when one of his friends asked him what the hell he was doing. 
He said “at my age I prefer to smell perfume than linament”.
As far as good diggers go, most men don’t give a damn anyway. The richer you are the less the money matters so why not have a hot girlfriend, someone has to feed them.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> An wealthy old guy was dating a twenty year old when one of his friends asked him what the hell he was doing.
> He said “at my age I prefer to smell perfume than linament”.
> As far as good diggers go, most men don’t give a damn anyway. *The richer you are the less the money matters so why not have a hot girlfriend, someone has to feed them.*


I actually have no issue with any of that. Where I have a problem is those same wealthy "old" men who after getting used/hurt by said gold diggers, use that experience to judge all women. Nope, enjoy the hot girlfriend - use her for everything she's worth - but don't delude yourself that it means anything beyond "she likes your money". 

I would also like to use my soapbox to warn wealthy older men who date younger hot women.......Don't walk but RUN to the vasectomy clinic. I don't know how common it is but I seem to attract guys who divorced a long term marriage with grown kids then hooked up with the young, hot girlfriend and now are the reluctant fathers to toddlers. I can only assume it's because after the fun and wild ride with hot and fun, boring and responsible me (blessed with a lucrative career, financial independence, my house, my health, and a healthy son who has grown into a happy, smart young man) is all of a sudden attractive. Uhm, nope. I'm actively planning my empty nest life. It does not include young children.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> Oprah doesn't need a free flight anywhere. She probably owns her own yacht in the Mediterranean, one which she can use to lure a man (or woman) for good times.


When I was first starting to date my wife, she was employed and self supporting and could have easily afforded dinners and movies and picnics and concerts etc, but I took her to those things anyway. Not because she couldn’t afford them on her own but because I wanted to. 

So my point was the reason men richer and more powerful men aren’t asking out Oprah is not because she can afford her own, but because they don’t want to. 

They’d rather invite the Swedish bikini model.

And in the age of Only Fans, the bikini models may soon be richer than not only Oprah, but the shipping tycoons and Hollywood producers themselves.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> When I was first starting to date my wife, she was employed and self supporting and could have easily afforded dinners and movies and picnics and concerts etc, but I took her to those things anyway. Not because she couldn’t afford them on her own but because I wanted to.
> 
> So my point was the reason men richer and more powerful men aren’t asking out Oprah is not because she can afford her own, but because they don’t want to.
> 
> They’d rather invite the Swedish bikini model.


That all may be true which is why I strongly encourage the women I mentor to focus on their success and financial and social independence. It's the only thing they have control over. The likelihood is strong that they'll be dumped for younger and hotter eventually. 



> And in the age of Only Fans, the bikini models may soon be richer than not only Oprah, but the shipping tycoons and Hollywood producers themselves.


I actually think this is sad. Why would men pay the bikini models to follow them on fan only. Seriously dude...get out of the house. Mingle with real women.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Perfect song for this thread


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Surprised the thread made it this far without the song link.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> I actually think this is sad. Why would men pay the bikini models to follow them on fan only. Seriously dude...get out of the house. Mingle with real women.


The men dropping money on OnlyFans aren't going to get a date if they do go out and mingle with real women. The only men I know of personally spending money on that garbage never get laid anyway.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

The reason men complain about gold diggers is because the gold digger probably didn't hold up her end of the deal. Instead, she chose to try and take the dude for everything she could. I know of women going through divorce now trying to get alimony, child support, and assets they never paid for. They're basically going to ruin some guy's life for the next decade or more.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> That all may be true which is why I strongly encourage the women I mentor to focus on their success and financial and social independence. It's the only thing they have control over. The likelihood is strong that they'll be dumped for younger and hotter eventually.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually think this is sad. Why would men pay the bikini models to follow them on fan only. Seriously dude...get out of the house. Mingle with real women.


“A fool and his money are soon parted.”


----------



## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

Funny how we're not talking about the search for a sugar mama. It's tough being middle class. I can think of 2 guys trying to mack me in the past. 

One of them was Mr. InBetweenMarriage. He started off wining and dining me. Then talked marriage; moving to London where i was living. The the smack down came in a series of steps. one, he accepted a job that was half his current salary. It was the first company he interviewed with. Then he wanted to move in with me. I felt like I was suffocating.

I mentioned that I had looked at conferences located in his town related to my business. He then offered to not sell his house so that I could use his house as an office. He never talked about how much that would cost or who would pay for it. This was a 3 story house. I'm sure renting a desk in someone's office in the business district would have been more reasonable. But he had nerve to call me a second time about it.......ie Now, I need to hurry and make a decision as to whether I sell the house or not ....(in annoyed tone of voice. Excuse me?)

Now I shudder at the thought. imagine him refusing paying me for living in my place because he feels that I owe him money. This is why I would rather live in the guy's place. So I can leave when I feel like it. 
My female friends thought I was treating him badly, "to move in with you is a big deal." Who knows he may have been working to secure a sabbatical so that he could have a London / Europe tour and go back to the US without being tied to a lease. Or maybe he could figure out a way to become a squatter in my home. Squatter's get lots of rights. Sorry, but I don't come that cheap. And I'm amazed at the low standards that some women have.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> The men dropping money on OnlyFans aren't going to get a date if they do go out and mingle with real women. The only men I know of personally spending money on that garbage never get laid anyway.


Same goes with men who drop money on strippers


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> Same goes with men who drop money on strippers


I dunno man lol. I did used to hit up the strip clubs in my 20's and I always had women after me back then. It was just something else fun to do on the weekend. I kinda became friends with a few of the girls after a while.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NTA said:


> Funny how we're not talking about the search for a sugar mama. It's tough being middle class. I can think of 2 guys trying to mack me in the past.
> 
> One of them was Mr. InBetweenMarriage. He started off wining and dining me. Then talked marriage; moving to London where i was living. The the smack down came in a series of steps. one, he accepted a job that was half his current salary. It was the first company he interviewed with. Then he wanted to move in with me. I felt like I was suffocating.
> 
> ...


Come on sugar mamma! You know you want to pay for this!😉


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> I dunno man lol. I did used to hit up the strip clubs in my 20's and I always had women after me back then. It was just something else fun to do on the weekend. I kinda became friends with a few of the girls after a while.


I am not a prude or a puritan by any means but never understood the appeal of strippers LOL


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Come on sugar mamma! You know you want to pay for this!😉
> 
> View attachment 75380


Is that the "before" picture???


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> I am not a prude or a puritan by any means but never understood the appeal of strippers LOL


No one knows how to party more than a group of strippers. If you get in good with the girls at a club, you will have a good time, guaranteed.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> No one knows how to party more than a group of strippers. If you get in good with the girls at a club, you will have a good time, guaranteed.


If you could get a DJ gig then you were golden.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> The men dropping money on OnlyFans aren't going to get a date if they do go out and mingle with real women. The only men I know of personally spending money on that garbage never get laid anyway.


I wonder when that market will (or may already be) become over-saturated? No pun intended.


----------



## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

Men in search for a sugar mama have to clean up well.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Al_Bundy said:


> I wonder when that market will (or may already be) become over-saturated? No pun intended.


The market is already over-saturated. I know a few females on there now. They're happy to find a couple guys stupid enough to pay for pics here and there. Most ladies on OnlyFans don't make squat. The ones making money are making ALL the money. 

I never did work at a strip club. My cousin and I just used to hang out at one of them all the time so we got to know people. My cousin actually dated one of the girls full-time for a while but that was never my thing.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> The reason men complain about gold diggers is because the gold digger probably didn't hold up her end of the deal. Instead, she chose to try and take the dude for everything she could. I know of women going through divorce now trying to get alimony, child support, and assets they never paid for. They're basically going to ruin some guy's life for the next decade or more.


And yet many do set themselves up for it by brandishing their wealth to attract a certain type of woman  It is even what they are taught women are attracted to, how wealth is far more important, etc etc.

Like someone else mentioned already on this thread, it can be a cultural thing, like holy smokes Singapore! BTW it's no longer the 5Cs, its the *B*s!

I don't need a _CAR_, but I want a *B*MW
I don't need a _CONDO_, but I want a *B*UNGALOW
I don't need a _CREDIT CARD_, but I want a *B*ILLIONAIRE
I don't need you to have _CASH_ but I want you to own a *B*ANK
I don't need you to have a _CAREER_ but I want you to be a *B*OSS


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I went on a first date once a long time ago when I was newly single and the guy was like offering to take me to Iceland and talking about his fancy car and frankly it's offputting. He was short, but well-dressed, attractive, kind, pulled out my chair, took me to a nice cocktail bar and then dinner, but frankly it's offputting to have someone use their wealth to try and reel you in. If anything it made what seemed like a nice, intelligent, well-read man seem really, really unattractive. I don't trust someone who is comfortable taking a complete stranger on vacation with them. I have to wonder if at a certain point people who lead with their money attract the very kind of people they claim they don't want - gold diggers. I never saw him again.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Looks for men is equal to money for women. 

But I defend women. What one does for a living and how they spend/save their money says a lot about who they are. I personally would take an engineer with a steady job making $70k over that stupid my pillow guy that made millions. What do I care about? A respectable, steady job. A job that the person is clearly passionate about. 
Yea there are those annoying women who just want millionaires, because they just want to live this rich lifestyle that is all about what they are wearing and driving in. These women have no depth to them and they will move on to the next best thing if it ever presents itself. 

I personally need a man with a respectable job that he loves.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

All men care about is looks. They get mad that they aren’t getting the women they want (again what she looks like), and they complain and turn it around on women being the problem having too high expectations. 

Being born beautiful has nothing to do with who the person is. Nothing. I understand that some women do the best with what they have... meaning they put the effort in. They workout, wear makeup, dress nice, eat good etc. but just to let you men know... it takes a lot of money and effort to look good. And I don’t think men realize the upkeep some of these beautiful women have, especially as their age.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

And also what age are we talking about here? When I read the post I immediately think of 20year olds. Why are we even talking about 20 year old issues? OP are you trying to date 20 year olds and mad that you can’t? 

Everyone should be established in their 30s. Meaning, they should be in the career path that they want. I understand things change. 

Don’t date women who can’t afford her their own lifestyle. It’s that simple.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Lila said:


> That's interesting. In my experience, the unattractive and attractive women I know have had about the same level of success ending up with successful guys. The only difference is that my majority of my attractive friends were not successful in their own right before meeting their partners. My less attractive friends were. Sadly, divorce statistics are what they are. Half of us are divorced. Take a wild guess which husbands/ long term partners were happier in the long haul.


I would like to know what makes them attractive vs unattractive. Is it traits they are born with or effort they put in?


----------



## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

Yeah, but then there should be a like for like exchange unless one doesn't care. I get really tired of women trying to "sell" the beauty of excess weight, for example. And what a lot of women want in male looks have more to do with genes than with self discipline, ie height, hair.......


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> Looks for men is equal to money for women.
> 
> But I defend women. What one does for a living and how they spend/save their money says a lot about who they are. I personally would take an engineer with a steady job making $70k over that stupid my pillow guy that made millions. What do I care about? A respectable, steady job. A job that the person is clearly passionate about.
> Yea there are those annoying women who just want millionaires, because they just want to live this rich lifestyle that is all about what they are wearing and driving in. These women have no depth to them and they will move on to the next best thing if it ever presents itself.
> ...


GP, if you advertised how much money you make, you would have a boatload of buttheads trying to woo you. Don't ever let on how much dough you bring in. I know that just about every guy on this forum makes over 6 figures (🤣🤣🤣); but, that doesn't translate to the real world.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

NTA said:


> Yeah, but then there should be a like for like exchange unless one doesn't care. I get really tired of women trying to "sell" the beauty of excess weight, for example. And what a lot of women want in male looks have more to do with genes than with self discipline, ie height, hair.......


Well we can’t change the way we look in terms of what we were born with. But we can max out our potential though. 
I see beautiful women all the time that are overweight, wearing sweats, hair in pony tails and they have the most beautiful face, the most beautiful SHAPE and curves and hair. Then I see women who are less beautiful, have severe facial features, large noses etc and they dress nice, stay fit, have stylish haircuts... and overall they look way more attractive then the naturally born beauty that the other girl was. 

It’s the same for guys. “The clothes make the man” is a real thing. And I think it’s the same for men and women. We need to stop complaining about not having the perfect jawline, or hairline, or shape or boobs, or hips or whatever, and we need to do the best with what we have.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Well we can’t change the way we look in terms of what we were born with. But we can max out our potential though.
> I see beautiful women all the time that are overweight, wearing sweats, hair in pony tails and they have the most beautiful face, the most beautiful SHAPE and curves and hair. Then I see women who are less beautiful, have severe facial features, large noses etc and they dress nice, stay fit, have stylish haircuts... and overall they look way more attractive then the naturally born beauty that the other girl was.
> 
> It’s the same for guys. “The clothes make the man” is a real thing. And I think it’s the same for men and women. We need to stop complaining about not having the perfect jawline, or hairline, or shape or boobs, or hips or whatever, and we need to do the best with what we have.


Being a fat lazy F who doesn’t care about their clothes automatically drops your hotness scale down 5 points. And Being well dressed, and in shape, and standing up tall and carrying yourself a certain way automatically increases your hotness scale by 5. 

How we present ourself is huge.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

There are insanely beautiful young women and super rich attractive men... who cares about these people they are like 1% of the population.

Then you have the poor, super lower middle class, and those that are struggling to pay pills, and support their family’s. These people have different priorities then looking attractive and finding a quality partner. 

Then we have the people below that 1% but they are still upper middle class. I’m pretty sure more people like to think they belong in this category that actually do. I’m sure there is maybe one of us on this forum that does fit in the category.

Then we have people who are above that lower middle class, those that can pay their bills and have a little extra $ left over. 

My point is everything is on a spectrum. Many men and women think they are higher on that spectrum then they really are. We all need to come down to earth.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

My ex husband was such a jerk, he use to walk in a target or whatever and be like, ew normies. We don’t fit in with normies. He would judge everyone based on how they dressed and presented themselves and their jobs blah blah blah. He really did a Number on my psyche.

Growing up my dad would make fun of fat people all the time. Now he is over weight. My dad dresses like a fat mechanic. He still talks down on people. 

It blows my mind how unaware people are about themselves. I use to be like dude your fat dad. He still looked down upon people and thought he was different. I don’t know how people get this inflated sense of self.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

He’d get straightened out where I live. Ultra wealthy people dress like slobs and drive Priuses (sic)?

I took my wife on a date last night to a moderately expensive place (least expensive entree over $50) for the area and there were guys wearing really bad gray jogging hoodies.

They just seat them outside.

Inside wasn’t much better.

I debated wearing a tie as my wife put on a lovely dress but instead I went for one of my go to older pattered shirts, a President blazer, and khakis. We were by far the most dressed people in there and no tie! No suit!


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> My ex husband was such a jerk, he use to walk in a target or whatever and be like, ew normies. We don’t fit in with normies. He would judge everyone based on how they dressed and presented themselves and their jobs blah blah blah. He really did a Number on my psyche.
> 
> Growing up my dad would make fun of fat people all the time. Now he is over weight. My dad dresses like a fat mechanic. He still talks down on people.
> 
> It blows my mind how unaware people are about themselves. I use to be like dude your fat dad. He still looked down upon people and thought he was different. I don’t know how people get this inflated sense of self.


Self perception. Your dad doesn't see himself as fat - his mirror automatically deducts 30 lbs.

I have a friend whose sister insists she doesn't gamble. She also likes to brag about how much money she got off the slots. But, no, she doesn't gamble and she hates gambling. Just gotta shake your head.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> He’d get straightened out where I live. Ultra wealthy people dress like slobs and drive Priuses (sic)?
> 
> I took my wife on a date last night to a moderately expensive place (least expensive entree over $50) for the area and there were guys wearing really bad gray jogging hoodies.
> 
> ...


My home is the least square footage in the development and goes for over $900,000. All of my neighbors dress like they're going to work on their cars EVERY where they go. Damn libs (lol).


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

One more thought on this. My dad wore a suit and tie every day to work.

If we go out with him and the place takes reservations I wear a suit and tie 💯. My mom loves it because she normally sees me in Slayer shirts and has to lower her head in shame.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> My home is the least square footage in the development and goes for over $900,000. All of my neighbors dress like they're going to work on their cars EVERY where they go. Damn libs (lol).


Hmm... My exact neighborhood I think the usual dress is sportswear. I can’t complain as that’s what I wear around town however I have some manners and will go appropriate dress for the venue. 

Here people think that you take street wear and add a Hermès bag or a watch that costs more than a car then you’re dressed up and oddly you mostly get treated that way. Maybe it’s all of California?


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I used to dress nicely before I owned a home and a dog. Now I know I'm gonna be walking the dog or working in the yard or doing DIY I would probably wear leggings, a t shirt and sneakers unless I was going somewhere like a museum or a restaurant or something.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> One more thought on this. My dad wore a suit and tie every day to work.
> 
> If we go out with him and the place takes reservations I wear a suit and tie 💯. My mom loves it because she normally sees me in Slayer shirts and has to lower her head in shame.


My Mom still reminds me repeatedly if we're going out to lunch to wear lipstick, brush my hair and change into "something nice" lol. Now I haven't been able to see her due to covid for a couple of years and I actually miss it because I haven't seen her in ages.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

joannacroc said:


> I used to dress nicely before I owned a home and a dog. Now I know I'm gonna be walking the dog or working in the yard or doing DIY I would probably wear leggings, a t shirt and sneakers unless I was going somewhere like a museum or a restaurant or something.


My neighbors wouldn't know how to wash a car let alone work on one - they have a mobile service come to their homes to wash the cars. Yardwork? Get outta here. I swear, they must pay someone to rag up their clothes.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I would like to know what makes them attractive vs unattractive. Is it traits they are born with or effort they put in?


I would say that the majority of my attractive friends were born with good genes. I have known several since college; they were my sorority sisters. Mind you I went to an engineering college and these women graduated with engineering degrees but, like me, they married their college sweethearts. Unlike me, they immediately started having kids and never worked in their degree fields.


----------



## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> *And also what age are we talking about here? When I read the post I immediately think of 20year olds. Why are we even talking about 20 year old issues? OP are you trying to date 20 year olds and mad that you can’t?*
> 
> Everyone should be established in their 30s. Meaning, they should be in the career path that they want. I understand things change.
> 
> Don’t date women who can’t afford her their own lifestyle. It’s that simple.


Just catching up with this thread. 
Older men who won't date women their own age is an immediate turn-off to me. You see it on dating sites all the time, a divorced guy in his 50's, 60's who lists the age range he'll date as 25-35, after he describes how successful and active he is. Am I the only one who finds this somewhat pathetic? I understand wanting to be with someone you're attracted to, but for some men having a younger woman is definitely a status thing. 
I've never been attracted to men that are much younger than me, can't imagine what we'd have that much in common as partners. But money does talk, for both men and women. Look at Madonna dating a guy in his 20's.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> Looks for men is equal to money for women.
> 
> But I defend women. What one does for a living and how they spend/save their money says a lot about who they are. I personally would take an engineer with a steady job making $70k over that stupid my pillow guy that made millions. What do I care about? A respectable, steady job. A job that the person is clearly passionate about.
> Yea there are those annoying women who just want millionaires, because they just want to live this rich lifestyle that is all about what they are wearing and driving in. These women have no depth to them and they will move on to the next best thing if it ever presents itself.
> ...


How is a guy with a safe secure job working for someone else more passionate than a guy who builds his own company? I understand the security part but you're off on the passion part.


----------



## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Al_Bundy said:


> How is a guy with a safe secure job working for someone else more passionate than a guy who builds his own company? I understand the security part but you're off on the passion part.


Why are you assuming they aren't?

Is building a business the only thing that you can be passionate about? What about building bridges, or reducing pollution, etc.?


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Al_Bundy said:


> How is a guy with a safe secure job working for someone else more passionate than a guy who builds his own company? I understand the security part but you're off on the passion part.


That security is an illusion. That career company guy is only as safe and secure as that company's CEO, or owner. They can both be equally passionate about the business. 

So a woman who can lock him down might as well go for the CEO. If you're digging for that gold, at least the CEO has a golden parachute. Company guy gets locked out of his employee stock plan while the company goes down in flames.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Why are you assuming they aren't?
> 
> Is building a business the only thing that you can be passionate about? What about building bridges, or reducing pollution, etc.?


In general the founder is going to be more passionate about the company than the employees. Not saying there aren't passionate employees but nobody is going to be as invested in your dreams than you.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

DownButNotOut said:


> That security is an illusion. That career company guy is only as safe and secure as that company's CEO, or owner. They can both be equally passionate about the business.
> 
> So a woman who can lock him down might as well go for the CEO. If you're digging for that gold, at least the CEO has a golden parachute. Company guy gets locked out of his employee stock plan while the company goes down in flames.


Very true. It's the same "security" you get from marriage.


----------



## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Al_Bundy said:


> In general the founder is going to be more passionate about the company than the employees. Not saying there aren't passionate employees but nobody is going to be as invested in your dreams than you.


Not all dreams revolve around owning a business... That really shouldn't need to be said to be honest. Being passionate about what you do doesn't require you to own your own company. There are many people who are highly passionate about their professions who draw paychecks from others.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> All men care about is looks. They get mad that they aren’t getting the women they want (again what she looks like), and they complain and turn it around on women being the problem having too high expectations.
> 
> Being born beautiful has nothing to do with who the person is. Nothing. I understand that some women do the best with what they have... meaning they put the effort in. They workout, wear makeup, dress nice, eat good etc. but just to let you men know... it takes a lot of money and effort to look good. And I don’t think men realize the upkeep some of these beautiful women have, especially as their age.


.
A person might be born with beauty but they are 100% in charge of their body. Just about anyone can have a hot body. It doesn't require vast amounts of money, just plain old work and commitment. A fit body has to be built. It can't be bought. Yes you can buy parts, but that's easy to spot. Like a 89 Honda with faded paint and brand new rims.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Not all dreams revolve around owning a business... That really shouldn't need to be said to be honest. Being passionate about what you do doesn't require you to own your own company. There are many people who are highly passionate about their professions who draw paychecks from others.


I was responding to her post about a guy who mails it in for 70k at a secure job. And yes there are some employees who are passionate, but the owner is probably more passionate because they cared enough to start the company. As you said, this shouldn't need to be pointed out


----------



## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Al_Bundy said:


> I was responding to her post about a guy who mails it in for 70k at a secure job. And yes there are some employees who are passionate, but the owner is probably more passionate because they cared enough to start the company. As you said, this shouldn't need to be pointed out


Sorry, don't think you get what I am talking about. 

I guess it is hard when you are brought up in a culture that values business ownership and entrepreneurship above everything else to see that people can be very passionate and driven in what they do with that being directly linked to the passion they have for the company they work for. I guess that is why you think that a guy in a nice, secure engineering job must be 'mailing it in' rather than the possibility that this guy has found a job where he can focus on what he is passionate about e.g. building bridges or whatever and gets enough money to be comfortable. The reality is we can't actually know who is more passionate without asking "passionate about what?"


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Not all dreams revolve around owning a business... That really shouldn't need to be said to be honest. Being passionate about what you do doesn't require you to own your own company. There are many people who are highly passionate about their professions who draw paychecks from others.


And yet, the ladies aren't exactly lining up for the Willy Lomans of the world.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> GP, if you advertised how much money you make, you would have a boatload of buttheads trying to woo you. Don't ever let on how much dough you bring in. * I know that just about every guy on this forum makes over 6 figures* (🤣🤣🤣); but, that doesn't translate to the real world.


I know I do. As long as you count the numbers after the decimal point.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

AGoodFlogging said:


> I guess that is why you think that a guy in a nice, secure engineering job must be 'mailing it in' rather than the possibility that this guy has found a job where he can focus on what he is passionate about


I would call it having no ambition other then being a spoke in someone else's wheel.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> I would call it having no ambition other then being a spoke in someone else's wheel.


Which unfortunately is what was a lot of us were taught growing up. Entrepreneurs used to be made fun of saying it was a fancy word for unemployed. A "good man" gets the_ secure_ job and works for 30 years, collects his gold watch then is put out to pasture.


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

What you call "passion", I think is better termed "competence". The attractive part is being good at what you do.

Nobody thinks the passionate guy who sucks at his passion is attractive.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Al_Bundy said:


> Which unfortunately is what was a lot of us were taught growing up. Entrepreneurs used to be made fun of saying it was a fancy word for unemployed. A "good man" gets the_ secure_ job and works for 30 years, collects his gold watch then is put out to pasture.


I can't imagine living a life like that


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Al_Bundy said:


> Which unfortunately is what was a lot of us were taught growing up. Entrepreneurs used to be made fun of saying it was a fancy word for unemployed. A "good man" gets the_ secure_ job and works for 30 years, collects his gold watch then is put out to pasture.


Back in those days you could work for a nice company, make a good wage, and retire with a gold watch pretty easy. Most of those jobs got shipped overseas.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> Back in those days you could work for a nice company, make a good wage, and retire with a gold watch pretty easy. Most of those jobs got shipped overseas.


I bought my own gold watch. Gold watches are highly underrated these days. Everyone wants their stainless steel Rolex sports watches and they pass right by the classic President. Same thing with Royal Oak, Nautilus, etc...


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> I bought my own gold watch. Gold watches are highly underrated these days. Everyone wants their stainless steel Rolex sports watches and they pass right by the classic President. Same thing with Royal Oak, Nautilus, etc...


All beyond my pay grade. I have a couple Ball watches. Most money I ever spent on a watch. I don't make enough to justify Rolex purchases. Probably why I need not fear gold diggers. They only digging for fool's gold here.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> All beyond my pay grade. I have a couple Ball watches. Most money I ever spent on a watch. I don't make enough to justify Rolex purchases. Probably why I need not fear gold diggers. They only digging for fool's gold here.


That particular watch I have reminds me of the Trinidad James song “All Gold Everything”. Only play it ever got was a barista at Starbucks, “nice watch”.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Al_Bundy said:


> .
> A person might be born with beauty but they are 100% in charge of their body. Just about anyone can have a hot body. It doesn't require vast amounts of money, just plain old work and commitment. A fit body has to be built. It can't be bought. Yes you can buy parts, but that's easy to spot. Like a 89 Honda with faded paint and brand new rims.



This made me laugh. I prefer to consider myself a refurbished 1957 Cadillac DeVille. Lots of work, sweat, and tears went into being able to afford the parts and I purchased the very best.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Here is what is tough, as a female I am a small business owner and doing better financially than some men I have dated, that does not work! At the same time I have dated men with status that are about as cheap and protective of their money. Not that I need, or want, support but I do find it almost offensive when I am lumped into a group that I "could be" a gold digger so beware just because I am female. It is like I have to prove who I am and that just does not seem right.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I would call it having no ambition other then being a spoke in someone else's wheel.


I tried being a spoke but kept getting rejected.😵


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> Here is what is tough, as a female I am a small business owner and doing better financially than some men I have dated, that does not work!


Why doesn't it work?


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Lila said:


> This made me laugh. I prefer to consider myself a refurbished 1957 Cadillac DeVille. Lots of work, sweat, and tears went into being able to afford the parts and I purchased the very best.


A restored classic is a work of art.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I've made at or near six figures for most of my adult life. Low six figure incomes aren't really that much. We have always had enough and sometimes enough to have a lot of fun but it isn't exactly easy street all the time.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

AVR1962 said:


> Here is what is tough, as a female I am a small business owner and doing better financially than some men I have dated, that does not work! At the same time I have dated men with status that are about as cheap and protective of their money. Not that I need, or want, support but I do find it almost offensive when I am lumped into a group that I "could be" a gold digger so beware just because I am female. It is like I have to prove who I am and that just does not seem right.


This would be a great topic on it's own. I have heard similar stories from other female business owners.


----------



## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Numb26 said:


> Reminds me of a quote and I don't know who said it but it goes. "I don't pay her for sex, I pay her to leave"


I think it was Charlie Sheen. 

Not sure how well that actually worked out for him, though.


----------



## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Numb26 said:


> From my personal experience I can tell you that the meaning of a good career, money and such in my 20's is much different then it was in my 40's.
> 
> And you are right 100k does not go that far


Ha! Sounds like Latrell Sprewell, the former NBA player :

"When the Timberwolves offered him a $21 million contract extension in 2004, Sprewell uttered his most infamous quote: "I have a family to feed ... If Glen Taylor wants to see my family fed, he better cough up some money.""

Sprewell quote (and coach choking)


----------



## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

DownButNotOut said:


> And yet, the ladies aren't exactly lining up for the Willy Lomans of the world.


Yet they all seem to be married and easily find someone to remarry after divorce...


----------



## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> I would call it having no ambition other then being a spoke in someone else's wheel.


Suffice to say I disagree.

I find it amazing that we now live in a world where ambition is boiled down to just making dollar and starting your own business. I believe it is a source of many of society's ills these days. Total lack of respect for expertise and the skill, drive and dedication it takes to obtain it.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Suffice to say I disagree.
> 
> I find it amazing that we now live in a world where ambition is boiled down to just making dollar and starting your own business. I believe it is a source of many of society's ills these days. Total lack of respect for expertise and the skill, drive and dedication it takes to obtain it.


 Your assumption is wrong. Only way to start and have a successful business is to have the expertise, skill, drive and dedication to do it. That is what separates the clock punchers from the rest.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Why doesn't it work?


I think it threatens men, they want to be the provider and I think when the woman makes more money it throws off that balance.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> I think it threatens men, they want to be the provider and I think when the woman makes more money it throws off that balance.


So in your case, you don't have any problems dating a man who makes a good deal less than you?

I'm data mining a bit here. I know from experience that some women don't mind. When I was in high school and just after, I had serious offers from a couple of women that were pretty well off and went on to become very well off and I was just scraping by at the time.

Data gathered from many areas of the free world shows that possibly the majority of women don't want to date men who make less than them.

I'm positive other factors are certainly influencers. I might not have been making much but I stood out in a crowd, for example.

I personally don't care how much a woman makes. Other factors go into the decision making process for me.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Your assumption is wrong. Only way to start and have a successful business is to have the expertise, skill, drive and dedication to do it. That is what separates the clock punchers from the rest.


Maybe most really don't realize the heat and pressure you have to be willing to endure and overcome to start and run almost any business.

That is on top of having the expertise, skill and drive to do it.

I've done it a few times on a small scale and it was fun, expensive, stressful and the first two failed. The third one was working and I was even making some good money but I was working all the time and gone more than home.

I had a talk with myself and changed gears and started contracting and getting paid to travel and it probably extended my life. LoL!


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> So in your case, you don't have any problems dating a man who makes a good deal less than you?
> 
> I'm data mining a bit here. I know from experience that some women don't mind. When I was in high school and just after, I had serious offers from a couple of women that were pretty well off and went on to become very well off and I was just scraping by at the time.
> 
> ...


Maybe I don't have the dating experience of most people but I have never found salary to even come up. Maybe because I have not seriously dated yet


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Maybe most really don't realize the heat and pressure you have to be willing to endure and overcome to start and run almost any business.
> 
> That is on top of having the expertise, skill and drive to do it.
> 
> ...


Which are the same reasons I took the path I did after my D!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> I was working all the time and gone more than home.
> 
> I had a talk with myself and changed gears and started contracting and getting paid to travel and it probably extended my life. LoL!


Yeah thats why I'm not as torn up about the financial nuke of covid as I should be. I have my feet up now and rather enjoying my new pace 

Not sure I can go back and my partner supports extension of my life - likely due to our age difference


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I agree with the above. I don’t have the hustle I had as a younger man. I have some because I hate losing, but now I want the younger folks to show the same kind of hustle while I phone in from the back nine. I could easily go do a bunch of work this morning like a world beater but instead I’m enjoying my coffee.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

AVR1962 said:


> I think it threatens men, they want to be the provider and I think when the woman makes more money it throws off that balance.


This has been my experience. Between that and the schooling/education thing, I feel I'm in a no win situation.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> This has been my experience. Between that and the schooling/education thing, I feel I'm in a no win situation.


How does this come up? I've never dealt with this so it strikes me as weird that men would even be really worried about how much a dating partner makes or her education level.

I can see getting at least in awe if she takes a guy out on her 100 meter yacht for a weekend but not with the majority of us that have our feet a little closer to earth.

When I dated, it was about the sweet seduction dance and most of the women I dated back then were both better educated and easily financially more well off than me. My partner's education and financial situation was never a talking point when it came to us dating but, now that I'm thinking about it, did come up when we were enjoying time together and she would tell me about her interests, hobbies and what her plans were for the future.

So you don't mind dating a less educated and lower earning man but they don't want to date you and you think it's do to them being lower earners and less educated?

I'm positive (know for a fact) there are significant groups of women who don't date men who make less than them. I do know that there are groups of men who don't want to date women who make more but I'm not sure how large these groups are.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

AVR1962 said:


> I think it threatens men, they want to be the provider and I think when the woman makes more money it throws off that balance.


Could you (or women in general) respect a man who makes less? If you're crushing it and he's perfectly happy with 40k a year for the rest of his life would that be a deal breaker? Not judging, just asking.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> How does this come up? I've never dealt with this so it strikes me as weird that men would even be really worried about how much a dating partner makes or her education level.
> 
> I can see getting at least in awe if she takes a guy out on her 100 meter yacht for a weekend but not with the majority of us that have our feet a little closer to earth.
> 
> ...


Most of the education stuff comes up as general conversation, getting to know you. 

You may not believe it but in my experience, level of education seems to be a big issue for many people. Many highly educated woman will only date highly educated men. Not sure if this has affected many of the guys with only high school degrees, but I have dated several, and more often than not, they carry a chip on their shoulders the likes of which is impossible to overcome, even if they are financially successful. Level of education means diddly squat to me, but then again, I tend to avoid the academics. Just not my cup of tea. 

As to the money thing that @AVR1962 mentioned, I can only say that I've worked hard to be able to afford nice things. I don't splurge but I do drive a luxury vehicle (new, my son is driving my old luxury vehicle) and have a "quaint" home in a high income suburb. A few men I went out with couldn't let it go. The worse.one was the dude that implied my ex-husband must have been financially raped in the divorce. Whatever.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm having technical difficulties replying but I have to say good grief about the wingnuts who can't handle a financially successful woman.

I have looked at a lot of data to back your observation about educated women in general @Lila


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Lila said:


> Most of the education stuff comes up as general conversation, getting to know you.
> 
> You may not believe it but in my experience, level of education seems to be a big issue for many people. Many highly educated woman will only date highly educated men. Not sure if this has affected many of the guys with only high school degrees, but I have dated several, and more often than not, they carry a chip on their shoulders the likes of which is impossible to overcome, even if they are financially successful. Level of education means diddly squat to me, but then again, I tend to avoid the academics. Just not my cup of tea.
> 
> As to the money thing that @AVR1962 mentioned, I can only say that I've worked hard to be able to afford nice things. I don't splurge but I do drive a luxury vehicle (new, my son is driving my old luxury vehicle) and have a "quaint" home in a high income suburb. A few men I went out with couldn't let it go. The worse.one was the dude that implied my ex-husband must have been financially raped in the divorce. Whatever.


Level of education means a lot to me. I actually always put it on my filter on dating apps. I value education.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Al_Bundy said:


> On several threads/comments when a guy talks about how a man should develop himself to his fullest potential (in all areas, including financial) to have the best options someone will usually respond with the notion those additional options are somehow bad. Usually a few gold-digger comments will be thrown around as well.
> 
> Meanwhile in other threads, we are telling women they can "do better" than the loser they married.
> 
> ...


Oh, don't worry about us women. We can go make our own money. It is true that if a man's main asset is financial and he's looking to date someone he normally wouldn't attract, that someone is likely to be attracted to his money more than him. 

There's people out there who haven't bothered to improve themselves much and still expect to attract people better looking than them and can't get over it, and I think a lot of times that is the context of that advice and comments. 

But it is true women are more attracted to just someone who has some interests and is ambitious in some way. But there are those who have no requirements.....so......


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> Level of education means a lot to me. I actually always put it on my filter on dating apps. I value education.


There is no wrong or right answer. Everyone is entitled to their preferences. 

I only date smart and successful men but level of education doesn't enter into the equation.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm 68 and no man has ever paid a bill for me unless it was dinner.


----------



## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

I'm concerned about a date's behavior and level of conversation. It's awful when someone says some remark, trite maybe and then they have that officious look of satisfaction as if they have said something profound.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> There is no wrong or right answer. Everyone is entitled to their preferences.
> 
> I only date smart and successful men but level of education doesn't enter into the equation.


I didn't graduate high school but it didn't slow my options at all. 

I had a pretty wide spectrum to choose from.

Reality is organic and always has exceptions and alternate routes.


----------



## A.Dora.Belle (May 5, 2021)

I didn't marry my husband for his income or earning potential, although some of the responses on my thread seem to make it look like people think I did. I married him because he was intelligent, fun to be with, had a great sense of humor, we had a lot in common and because we clicked emotionally to a very strong degree. Maybe our relationship is non traditional but we were extremely happy together until our financial situation forced us to move in with his parents. 

However I didn't marry him expecting to be supporting him and paying his bills while he worked a dead end job, either, or to be stuck living with my in-laws for over 4 years. I have a degree in non profit management and I work in legal advocacy for the poor. Not exactly a career with high earning potential but at least I'm trying to make a difference in the world and I feel good about what I do for a living because I'm helping people! And it would have been nice if he would have made an effort to get a job in his field of study as well. Or at least find a job that pays better than a gas station clerk that would allow us to get a place of our own.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Al_Bundy said:


> Could you (or women in general) respect a man who makes less? If you're crushing it and he's perfectly happy with 40k a year for the rest of his life would that be a deal breaker? Not judging, just asking.


It would be a deal breaker for me. I am used to a certain lifestyle and still plan to live that. I know at 40k a year even with mine included out lifestyle is not going to be what I want.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Lila said:


> As to the money thing that @AVR1962 mentioned, I can only say that I've worked hard to be able to afford nice things. I don't splurge but I do drive a luxury vehicle (new, my son is driving my old luxury vehicle) and have a "quaint" home in a high income suburb. A few men I went out with couldn't let it go. The worse.one was the dude that implied my ex-husband must have been financially raped in the divorce. Whatever.


I used to drive a Mercedes convertible, had a beautiful home. One of my ex's best friends said, "Must be nice to be a *__* (husband's career)," in reference to my car. I let him know that I paid for my own car, the car was not bought for me. Had the car for 10 years, had lots of fun with it!


----------



## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> On several threads/comments when a guy talks about how a man should develop himself to his fullest potential (in all areas, including financial) to have the best options someone will usually respond with the notion those additional options are somehow bad. Usually a few gold-digger comments will be thrown around as well.
> 
> Thoughts, comments, complaints??


IMO, this should be advice for women as well. For anyone. We should all develop ourselves to our fullest potential, whether it's for personal satisfaction or for success or to attract the type of partner we want. The guy sitting in his parents' basement slamming beers, playing videogames and wondering why he can't get a hot chick is the same as the girl sitting in her parents' living room, slamming ice cream and watching reality TV and wondering why a successful man doesn't come sweep her off her feet. If you work on yourself, regardless of gender, you're more likely to attract the partner you want.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Chaotic said:


> IMO, this should be advice for women as well. For anyone. We should all develop ourselves to our fullest potential, whether it's for personal satisfaction or for success or to attract the type of partner we want. The guy sitting in his parents' basement slamming beers, playing videogames and wondering why he can't get a hot chick is the same as the girl sitting in her parents' living room, slamming ice cream and watching reality TV and wondering why a successful man doesn't come sweep her off her feet. If you work on yourself, regardless of gender, you're more likely to attract the partner you want.


I'd agree with that. I know some guys would argue that the man has to "become" the man while the woman just has to not screw up what what she was born with. I say the burden of performance is supposed to be on the man, we're supposed to be competent and fight off the slings and arrows of life for our fair lady.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Level of education means a lot to me. I actually always put it on my filter on dating apps. I value education.


Level of education is code for money. My uncle has a degree in just about every useless subject, could school you in jeopardy, but he is perpetually jobless and broke. God Bless his wife because he wouldn't be able to find a poodle to give him affection.


----------

