# Hello from another sexless marriage



## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

Just wanted to drop by and say hello from yet another sexless marriage. Been lurking here off and on for a few years now and figured it was time to start posting. 

My wife and I have been married for 14 years now. Actually just celebrated our 14th anniversary yesterday. No sex of course. Tried a little bit of flirting and touching while we went out last night and immediately got shot down. 

It will be four years in August since we have had sex. Starting to think we probably never will again.

Our sex life has always been lackluster at best. We have in the past gone for up to three years between having sex. And we didn't have sex for the first year and a half that we got married, not even on our wedding night. And yes, we were both virgins when we got married. And on the rare few times that we do have sex, it's not that great. I always have to initiate, she doesn't like kissing or being touched at all really. 

Anyway, I'll just hang out here and commiserate with other sexless married people.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Wow! That's extreme . Is it painful for her? Why did you wait a year and a half after getting married? Did you try at all during that time?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

More detail, please?

How could you not have sex the first year and a half you were married?


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

Like all young couples we got married because we loved each other. We were friends for almost two years before we started dating and then dated for a year before we got married. 

We tried to have sex after we go married. But...I guess it's not as easy as it looks in the movies. I guess it was a little painful for her and I wasn't willing to cause her any more pain than necessary. After awhile we just sort of dropped it for awhile as it was becoming frustrating for both of us. Then it finally happened one night.

After that, sex was far and few between...we would have sex two or three times and then go months, even years between. We have probably not had sex more than 25 times in our whole marriage. 

I've tried to talk to her about our sex life. She doesn't want to talk about it, and thinks that when I try to talk about it that it's just going to make things worse. She just doesn't seem to have any desire to have sex at all. 

She doesn't like cuddling, or kissing, or touching. And she can't tell me what kinds of things I should do to turn her on. Often times she even sleeps on top of the covers and facing the other end of the bed. Not sure what that is about, but it makes it really hard to even put my arm around her when we sleep (which she doesn't like either). 

We have an otherwise good marriage. No fighting and very little arguing. We have both been faithful. And have a beautiful 10yo daughter. 

It's just frustrating to not have one of the most important aspects of a marriage.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Dragunov said:


> Like all young couples we got married because we loved each other. We were friends for almost two years before we started dating and then dated for a year before we got married.
> 
> We tried to have sex after we go married. But...I guess it's not as easy as it looks in the movies. I guess it was a little painful for her and I wasn't willing to cause her any more pain than necessary.


Define "a little."

If the pain actually is enough to stop sex... it's doctor time, because something's not right.

Did you do that? Why not?



> After awhile we just sort of dropped it for awhile as it was becoming frustrating for both of us. Then it finally happened one night.
> 
> After that, sex was far and few between...we would have sex two or three times and then go months, even years between. We have probably not had sex more than 25 times in our whole marriage.


Why is this acceptable for either one of you?
Girls tend to like sex as much (or more!) than boys do.


> I've tried to talk to her about our sex life. She doesn't want to talk about it, and thinks that when I try to talk about it that it's just going to make things worse. She just doesn't seem to have any desire to have sex at all.


Again, doctor time. This isn't OK unless you're making a conscious choice that it's OK.



> She doesn't like cuddling, or kissing, or touching. And she can't tell me what kinds of things I should do to turn her on. Often times she even sleeps on top of the covers and facing the other end of the bed. Not sure what that is about, but it makes it really hard to even put my arm around her when we sleep (which she doesn't like either).


She sounds traumatized.


> We have an otherwise good marriage. No fighting and very little arguing. We have both been faithful. And have a beautiful 10yo daughter.


How? Literally, sex 25 times in > 11 years? How do you have a kid?


> It's just frustrating to not have one of the most important aspects of a marriage.


It's a line in the sand time, dude. Get to MC, get to doctors. 

Nobody deserves to live a sexless life. And I'm including her in that.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Your wife has some serious intimacy and sexual issues. What do you know of her childhood?


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Your wife has some serious intimacy and sexual issues. What do you know of her childhood?


I know alot about her childhood. 

Our families actually knew each other since I was very young, 5 or 6 maybe. She's a little bit older than me. There's no abuse in the family. And she was never assaulted that I know of by anyone else. And I'm pretty certain that she would have said so if she was. 

I agree that she has some intimacy issue, just don't know how to go about helping her to fix them.


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

I thought I had an otherwise good marriage without sex too. Then I arrived here. Your wife is selfish. Are you prepared to live the rest of your life without sex?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You must also have an extremely low drive to have stayed in this situation this long.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Sounds like you have a roommate and probably a dependent. If being a wife was a felony, what evidence might a prosecutor use to convict her?


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> You must also have an extremely low drive to have stayed in this situation this long.


No. I have a relatively high sex drive. 

But I'm not going to force her to have sex with me and I'm not going to cheat on her.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> Sounds like you have a roommate and probably a dependent.


I often feel like we are very close roommates.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Dragunov said:


> No. I have a relatively high sex drive.
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm not going to force her to have sex with me and I'm not going to cheat on her.


Never mind. Good luck.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

You'd think she'd have a clue.

well, she probably does and just doesn't care


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I too am in a sexless marriage but it hasnt always been that way.

Personally, despite what various religions etc might say, I think all couples should see how sexually compatible they are BEFORE marriage than to find out after marriage?

In many cultures divorce is not an option... 

OP...if you could turn the clock back now, would you have rather found out about your sexial incompatability before you married your wife?

We are all entitled to happiness in this life....if you are perfectly happy being in a sexless marriage for whatever reason (children) then that is your choice and your rants, raves, letting off steam etc here on TAM will be fine - lots of us do it!

I don't know whether to admire you for being so adamant about not seeking sexual solace outside your marriage or suggest you get your head looked at!
You do what is right for you...this is your only life...this is it, the real thing, the real McCoy....


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Just because you are compatible before you are married it doesn't mean you will always be that way. Stress, children, aging, health, resentments all come into play and sex usually declines with one partner. That's when it becomes a problem. I do think that when the women is a virgin before marriage she tends to be LL throughout the marriage and just wants vanilla sex.

It's great that you haven't cheated but I would be surprised is you don't have some resentment towards your wife. If you can accept that you will live in a sexless marriage for the rest of your life and enjoy other parts of your marriage than sex then I don't see a problem, most men in your position could not.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

You're asking yourself the wrong question, man.

The question you need to be asking yourself is this one:

Just because my wife wants a sexless marriage doesn't mean I have to live a sexless life, right?

It's an unreasonable expectation. She will either see this, or she won't.

If she won't, you need to ask yourself another question: do I want a life of enforced celibacy, do I want to talk to her about getting your needs met elsewhere, or do I want to pull the pin on it, part as friends, and find someone with similar wants as mine?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Dragunov said:


> I know alot about her childhood.
> 
> Our families actually knew each other since I was very young, 5 or 6 maybe. She's a little bit older than me. There's no abuse in the family. And she was never assaulted that I know of by anyone else. And I'm pretty certain that she would have said so if she was.
> 
> I agree that she has some intimacy issue, just don't know how to go about helping her to fix them.


Dragunov;

I've got to say, this is one of the more brutal sexless marriage situations i've read on TAM. It goes beyond the typical script.
that is; 'lots of great sex before marriage, then declines after wedding and then even more after kids, to almost non-existent.'

nevertheless, i hope you are happy and content in other aspects of your life. Keep posting brother. Being on TAM can be very therapeutic.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You and she were friends and now it appears you still are. I wouldn't confuse the issue by characterizing the relationship as a marriage, though. Kissing, hugging, hand-holding are not painful acts, so whatever alleged pain she has during sex isn't her primary problem. It isn't physically painful for married couples to discuss things, either.
What is she getting out of this relationship? Financial support? Perhaps more importantly, what are you getting out of it? You could be living as a complete human being but you choose to remain with a woman who is indifferent, if not completely hostile to your very reasonable need for intimacy. She'd prefer to watch you trudge through the rest of your life as an unhappy, half-human than to endure the inconvenience of a a little hugging, kissing, talking, or (heaven forbid) sexual intercourse. 
You get one life. If you don't live this one as a complete human being, when were you planning on being one? You can divorce her and still pay her bills and you can still be buddies. She agreed to be a wife but she isn't, she hasn't, and she very likely never will.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Why were you both virgins?

If you wanted to spend every dime of every paycheck every month, would your wife be willing to talk about finances?

You're going to have to force this issue. I'm not talking about forcing her to have sex. 

You've been giving her very clear signals that her aversion to all things intimate is something you are okay with. Some people might avoid forcing a discussion in order to avoid hearing unpleasant things. And you will probably hear unpleasant things.

She likely gets no pleasure from sex.
Considering how infrequently you've had sex, you no doubt haven't developed love making skills that might change her mind about sex.
She doesn't want sex and therefor she doesn't want to be touched at all. If she allows any touching it might make you want to have sex.

You're going to have to tell you you will not live a celebrate life. You insist that the both of you attend couples counseling for the purpose of learning how to make your sex lives better or learning how to divorce amicably.

Your wife will not change unless not changing is more painful than changing. And even then, she will never be a woman who sees any value in sex.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You tired to have sex but it didn't work? Please be more specific here? Talk more about it being "a little painful for her." Has she ever discussed this with a doctor? Does she know anything about vaginismus? Did she deliver your daughter vaginally? Did she have an episiotomy, did she tear?

If you told your wife that you just want to hold her and kiss her and nothing else, what would she say?

Was she raised in a strict home non which sex was a shameful thing? Do you know if she ever masturbates? Has she ever talked to your daughter about sex? Has she talked to your daughter about periods? Has she ever discovered your daughter masturbating and if so how did she handle it?

Im worried about your daughter. Being raised by a woman such as your wife your daughter is also likely to grow up thinking sex is shameful, touching herself is wrong, talking about sex is just not done, and ultimately your daughter will also be sexually repressed and have a marriage much like yours. That's what's shameful!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Listen to Anon and get to marriage counseling, now.
The first thing I would do is sit down with your wife and tell her that "we" have a problem and "we" need to fix this or "I" cannot live this way.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

What cultures are both of you?


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

A lot of questions and comments here. I'll try to get to them later on this evening when I have some free time. 

But briefly, yes, our abstinence before marriage is based on our religious belief that the proper place for sex is inside of the marriage. 

As for the pain during sex, I don't think I would characterize it is really painful. Maybe more just discomfort on her part. I'm not sure really. It wasn't like she was screaming and crying when we tried to have sex. We got her a toy that she used for a couple of months to stretch out with and then used some extra lube and we were finally able to have intercourse. 

I don't know if she has addressed the physical aspects with her doctor or not. She may not think that it was a problem. And now when we have sex there is not the pain or discomfort that she had initially. Though I don't think she gets as much pleasure out of it as I do. 

I mean, not having any experience with any other women, I don't have much to compare our experiences with, so I'm not sure what else to say. 

I'll try to answer more of the questions later on.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

john117 said:


> What cultures are both of you?


I would characterize us as solidly American. Her family background is German and Irish and mine is German, Swiss, and American Indian.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

So your nickname is a Call of Duty reference 

What you describe is strange for the culture mix indicated... I would try to focus the direction of the relationship towards self discovery and counseling - not more tangible actions.

I she receptive to IC or MC?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Dragunov said:


> A lot of questions and comments here. I'll try to get to them later on this evening when I have some free time.
> 
> But briefly, yes, our abstinence before marriage is based on our religious belief that the proper place for sex is inside of the marriage.
> 
> ...


Sorry to be graphic, but do you have any skills in pleasing a woman outside of actual intercourse? Do you know anything about that?


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

john117 said:


> So your nickname is a Call of Duty reference


No, not really. But it is a reference to a Russian firearm. My usual anonymous screen name was already taken. 



> What you describe is strange for the culture mix indicated... I would try to focus the direction of the relationship towards self discovery and counseling - not more tangible actions.
> 
> I she receptive to IC or MC?


It may be strange for the generalized culture mix for Americans. But not so much for our religious background which trancends national, racial and cultural norms.

I think she would be open to at least individual counseling. I don't know about marriage counseling. I don't think she would feel comfortable talking about our sex life with anyone else though.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Sorry to be graphic, but do you have any skills in pleasing a woman outside of actual intercourse? Do you know anything about that?


Sure. But she doesn't like oral sex or manual stimulation either (in either direction). And no I have not done those things with any other women either. So I'm sure that I am somewhat inexperienced with those also.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

That Russian firearm (sniper rifle) is indeed in Call of Duty. Good stuff tho relatively hard to find as the game goes on.

Religion / culture / upbringing intimacy issues are tough to crack without intervention. Is she interested in working towards solving the issues or content with the status quo?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> Sure. But she doesn't like oral sex or manual stimulation either (in either direction). And no I have not done those things with any other women either. So I'm sure that I am somewhat inexperienced with those also.





john117 said:


> That Russian firearm (sniper rifle) is indeed in Call of Duty. Good stuff tho relatively hard to find as the game goes on.
> 
> Religion / culture / upbringing intimacy issues are tough to crack without intervention. Is she interested in working towards solving the issues or content with the status quo?


If your religion taught you to stay chaste until marriage, and you didn't have testosterone flooding your system to counteract the shame tactic generally driven home in order to prevent premarital sex, you'd be left with a general aversion to sex and a specific self denial of arousal. You may try to arouse her, but her internal shame prevents her from feeling it, so it doesn't build, so she doesn't orgasm, so she gets nothing out of sex, and now there is a conflict about sex and she'd rather the whole thing go away.

A POX on religions that use hellfire and damnation shame tactics to keep their daughters virginal! Because dude....YOU cannot counteract that indoctrination. Your preacher whoever won't be able to either because she's simply learn to spread her legs on command but never learn to actually become aroused and enjoy sex!

What needs to happen is education, honest communication in the most graphic of terms, and a desensitization of all things sex in order to remove the shame.

1. Learn all the names of all the female lady parts... It's more than two body parts. Lost ALL of the slang words and be comfortable saying a few of them out loud.
2. Learn the purpose and process of sexual arousal.
3. Learn to be comfortable touching yourself and allow those feelings to flow.
4. Examine your body in minute and intimate detail and learn to take pride and pleasure in the softness, curves, angles, hills, valleys and peaks. Treat the skin on your body gently.
5. Take a mirror and examine your own lady parts. Find your clitoris, the clit hood, the labia, the vulva, the perineum, and the anus. See how they change shape when touched and rubbed, feel the difference when touched with lubricant and when touched without lubricant.
6. Examine your breasts, find the parts that send arousal signals to your brain. Keep touching until you know exactly how your breasts best respond to what kind of touch. You could pinch, pull, twist, rub, and pat at different spread and strengths, find all the combinations that feel the best.

I could go on and on nut bottom line is both you and your wife need to learn one another's bodies as well as your own.

I notice you've been rather circumspect with regard to specifics so I'm thinking you too might benefit from desensitizing the shame from sexual exploration.

Anything done win the confines of a committed marriage with consent of both spouses, for the betterment of the relationship, is a very very good thing. Ditch the shame.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> A POX on religions that use hellfire and damnation shame tactics to keep their daughters virginal! Because dude....YOU cannot counteract that indoctrination. Your preacher whoever won't be able to either because she's simply learn to spread her legs on command but never learn to actually become aroused and enjoy sex!


Our religion does not preach hell and damnation for anything, including sex. And we do not shame those who choose to engage in extra-marital sex either. We also have no clergy, so there's no one to promote that condemnation or shame. 

We also expect the young men to remain chaste just as the young women do. There's no double standard. But everyone is responsible for making their own life choices and the consequences that come with them.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

Some other background information.

Our current dry spell started four years ago in August. My wife had started a new teaching job. A week or two after she started the job, she started suffering from ocular migraine headaches. After a visit to urgent care, our GP and a neurologist she was on a couple of different migraine meds whose names escape me at the moment. 

Around the same time, she had a big argument with her sister in which her sister basically accused her of being a prude and and that she (my wife) doesn't even know how to have sex. 

I'm sure both of these episodes had a detrimental effect on our sex life. But she is also taking birth control pills, so I have to assume that she intends to have sex at some point, right? 

I may have exaggerated on the only having sex 25 times in our marriage, but not by much. Maybe 30 or 40? Certainly not more than 50 times. Which still falls well below the general definition of a sexless marriage.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Does she know anything about vaginismus? Did she deliver your daughter vaginally? Did she have an episiotomy, did she tear?


No. She had a C-section. I don't know if she knows anything about vaginismus. Nor do I. I will ask her if she has ever addressed that with her OB-GYN.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Dragunov said:


> Like all young couples we got married because we loved each other. We were friends for almost two years before we started dating and then *dated for a year before we got married. *
> 
> *We tried to have sex after we go married. But...I guess it's not as easy as it looks in the movies. I guess it was a little painful for her and I wasn't willing to cause her any more pain than necessary. After awhile we just sort of dropped it for awhile as it was becoming frustrating for both of us. Then it finally happened one night.
> 
> ...



I've been married for over 15 years and did you marry my wife???

I am a God fearing man but that has nothing to do with my sex drive. I am HD adventurous and my love language is Physical rating 12 followed by Quality Time rating 7.

I am open to pretty much anything, even another woman, anything to get Mrs.CuddleBug out of her shell and get a healthy adventurous sex drive and I've told her this.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> Our religion does not preach hell and damnation for anything, including sex. And we do not shame those who choose to engage in extra-marital sex either. We also have no clergy, so there's no one to promote that condemnation or shame.
> 
> We also expect the young men to remain chaste just as the young women do. There's no double standard. But everyone is responsible for making their own life choices and the consequences that come with them.


Hmm, I'm curious what religion are you? FTR, I have no issue with any religion, but I have a HUGE issue with sexual shaming in order to promote chastity.

I never said there was a double standard. I mentioned, badly I admit, that testosterone helps boys and young men counteract the sexual shame. Because you have your sex drive fueled by a highly potent hormone, all the shame in the world wouldn't stop most young men from getting erections and wanting to ejaculate. But women's bodies don't work that way, so that shame has to be unlearned.

Perhaps I failed to make my point clear. Girls who are taught and expected to remind chaste until marriage are indeed generally shamed by their parents regarding their changing bodies, dressing a certain way so as not to attract sexual attention, behaving in a way so as not to attract sexual attention, and ignoring the signals their bodies are giving them regarding sexual activity. Ask your wife if her mother ever taught her all the names of her girl parts. Ask your wife if her mother ever discussed masturbation, discharge vs lubrication, and ask your wife if her mother ever discussed what an orgasm was. We keep our daughters completely ignorant in order to keep them ashamed of what is happening and then we expect the wedding ring to magically instill a whole new attitude about her body, nudity and sex.

your wife, I believe, doesn't want her lady parts touched because she sees no point in it and thinks it's disgusting. How does she do with regard to touching your penis? Is she okay with that? How does she do with blow jobs, is she okay with that? My bet is she wants nothing to do with your man parts her her lady parts. She doesn't feel pleasure there and she can't comprehend the pleasure you feel. It simply does not compute for her.

She needs therapy to unlearn sexual shame and she needs to reeducate herself on what a healthy sexual response is.

I wanted to add, my heart breaks for you but mostly your wife. Going through her whole life without experiencing the fantasicness of great sex and fabulous orgasms is just so sad.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

This is such a sad thread . I don't even have any advice to give, but just want to sympathize with the OP. I hope you can figure out how to get your wife to at least WANT to want to enjoy sex.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Drag, you're going to have to take the lead on this and insists your wife learn to love her body as much as you love her body. You're going to have to teach her to open up, relax, let go, and enjoy all the wonderful things her body can do.


http://www.amazon.com/Womens-Anatom...=1432346062&sr=8-1&keywords=Women's+sexuality

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Matters-W...=1432346062&sr=8-2&keywords=Women's+sexuality

Things Your Mother Never Told You: A Woman's Guide to Sexuality: Kim Gaines Eckert: 9780830843091: Amazon.com: Books


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> This is such a sad thread


Reading back through this thread, now _I'm_ depressed.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Dragunov said:


> No. She had a *C-section*.


So you two had a child through immaculate conception?:scratchhead:


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

morituri said:


> So you two had a child through immaculate conception?:scratchhead:


Huh? What are you talking about? Do you know what a Caesarean section is?


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Dragunov said:


> Huh? What are you talking about? Do you know what a Caesarean section is?


Dude, you don't have sex with your wife and she gives birth through a C section? WTF is up with that?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Dogbert said:


> Dude, you don't have sex with your wife and she gives birth through a C section? WTF is up with that?


He hasn't said that they have NEVER had sex. Obviously one of the time they managed to have sex, she got pregnant.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> Huh? What are you talking about? Do you know what a Caesarean section is?



He's kidding with you.


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

Dragunov said:


> Just wanted to drop by and say hello from yet another sexless marriage. Been lurking here off and on for a few years now and figured it was time to start posting.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 14 years now. Actually just celebrated our 14th anniversary yesterday. No sex of course. Tried a little bit of flirting and touching while we went out last night and immediately got shot down.
> 
> ...



I feel for you man. 
Another fellow Okie here, in the same boat. Except we've been married 34 years, too many years in, to be able to afford to do anything about it. I don't see it getting any better for you at this point.
I just wish I'd known 33 years ago it wasn't normal. 

Oh, and if it's true, "the accorn doesn't fall too far from the tree", I've seen first hand the effects of it..... FIL had an affair.......at 65 yrs. old!..


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Maybe she is not sexually attracted to men or simply to you. Have you asked her if she is attracted to women?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Dragunov said:


> Around the same time, she had a big argument with her sister in which her sister basically accused her of being a prude and and that she (my wife) doesn't even know how to have sex.


This is not an accusation as you describe it. It is probably your sister-in-law seeing your wife piss her marriage away and trying to do an intervention. That in turn means that your wife may be complaining to her sister about the state of your marriage.

My ex's friend tried to do a similar intervention (we've chatted some since the divorce), so I know how it goes.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Hi Dragunov,

What really stuck out at me is the extended period of friendship you guys had before marriage. The way I read your posts, you and your wife were friends for a couple of years outside of the family relationship. Then you dated, and then you got married?

My point is that is a very long time to pass for romantic feelings to make themselves known. Why, after knowing each other for so long, did it take two years to start dating? Were either of you in another relationship? Was there a distance issue?

A critical question: did you guys struggle to remain chaste before marriage? By that I mean was SHE struggling with wanting YOU, or did she breeze through the engagement?

You sound like the safe guy with good family values whom she felt would be a good provider for the family and father to her child? Under those circumstances (no real lust for you) sex probably would never be good. Then you add the first night discomfort and awkwardness, and it's game over.

ETA: How old are each of you? Having been married 14 years, if you are past your mid-30s then it's likely she experienced a fair amount of dating failure with her outlook on sex.

Also, what do you do for a living? Does she work outside the house and if so what does she do?


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

DTO said:


> This is not an accusation as you describe it. It is probably your sister-in-law seeing your wife piss her marriage away and trying to do an intervention. That in turn means that your wife may be complaining to her sister about the state of your marriage.
> 
> My ex's friend tried to do a similar intervention (we've chatted some since the divorce), so I know how it goes.


Trust me. My wife and her sister are not nearly that close. Her sister is bat **** crazy and is in an abusive relationship and actually HAS been sexually assaulted by her current husband (who is a dead beat dad to two OTHER women, a criminal, and an overall loser who won't get a job and tried to commit suicide a few months ago), and a former boyfriend.

Her sister made these statements to try to hurt and embarrass my wife, as if not being a **** is some kind of insult. 

Her sister is a whole other story that I don't really want to get into.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

DTO said:


> Hi Dragunov,
> 
> What really stuck out at me is the extended period of friendship you guys had before marriage. The way I read your posts, you and your wife were friends for a couple of years outside of the family relationship. Then you dated, and then you got married?
> 
> ...


I am 36 and she is 43. We both never really had many other serious dating relationships until we met. I work in the entertainment industry. Subsequently I work lots of long hours, lots of nights and weekends. She is a teacher by profession, but is currently unemployed. So she is a stay at home mom now.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Greeting from another team member. You like me are actually in a non-sex marriage. A 'sexless marriage' is defined by frequency of fewer than 10 times per year. Sounds like a lot right? Sexless sounds awesome to me. I think I'm now just at a year - I can't even remember it was either mid May or mid July but after 9 months you can't even remember anymore. I would be elated to know ever couple months would be a reward but instead my dog gets all the attention 'I love yous', attention, dinner and general affection. So yeah sucks being a broom (that how I see myself)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## autopilot (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this relative to your religious convictions. God created us as sexual beings for a reason. There is nothing sinful about our sexuality or sexual desires. If He had wanted us to be sexless creatures, He would have made us all humanoids rather than man and woman with sexual organs. You and your wife need to recognize that and treat your sexuality with much greater respect.

Another thing to consider: have either of you been tested for hormonal deficiencies? It sure sounds like one or both of you have a significant hormonal imbalance to be able to go throughout your entire marriage with nearly no sex. That is quite abnormal. If you are hormonally deficient, there are some very easy medical remedies for it that have profoundly positive effects.

I really feel sorry for you and your situation. I cannot imagine anything remotely like you describe, thank goodness.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Meh, some people have plenty of sex but have a butt load of crap in other areas of their marriage. Sex is only one part of a good relationship.

The good news is it sounds like you guys are best friends, get along well, and don't want to lose each other. Also that neither of you have other partners. *This means she is likely to be willing to work with you.*

"Work with you" means understand what you need, and do the best she can (what ever that may be) to meet those needs.

I'm assuming you have been taking care of your needs on your own. Is she aware of this? Have you ever asked her to help out? 

Talk with her. Tell her how important this is to you and ask her to join you. Tell her it would really mean a lot to you if she did. Tell her she doesn't even have to touch you... just be there. Remember timing is everything.

If she agrees I guarantee this will rock your world, and embolden you to seek more. Build on it. Be gentle and considerate of her feelings. It's ok, actually even better, to take it slow.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

AlmostYoung said:


> I'm assuming you have been taking care of your needs on your own. Is she aware of this? Have you ever asked her to help out?


I don't know if she is aware. I have to believe that she is not stupid. 

I...uhhh...don't know if I would be comfortable with that. It would be really weird for me, to say nothing of her.

I have gotten a list of Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists from my insurance provider. I need to contact some of them and see if this is an area that they deal with and try to talk to her about scheduling an appointment for us. What I am finding in my research for a marriage counselor or sex therapist is that many of them seem to only deal with abuse or trauma issues, or sex addiction, often as part of substance abuse; which isn't really what we are dealing with.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Dragunov said:


> I...uhhh...don't know if I would be comfortable with that. It would be really weird for me, to say nothing of her.


So start slower. Baby steps. Does she ever see you naked? Partially naked? A walk by with only a tee shirt or towel after a shower?


But first you have to have The Talk, where you let her know how important this is to you.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Therapists will only work if your wife is on board. Your job is to make sure she's there first...


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

I highly recommend Sex Starved Marriage by Michele W Davis. It explains both sides of this sexless marriage equation, and gives excellent guidelines on how to best move forward.



Dragunov said:


> I...uhhh...don't know if I would be comfortable with that. It would be really weird for me, to say nothing of her.


So maybe you have some level of sexual repression/guilt too. Most of us were raised with it. Get comfortable with your sexuality, and gently allow her to see that you are. 

She will likely be able to "work with you" long before she is comfortable with allowing you to work on her. This is fine, as it gives you something fun and exciting to build on!



> I have gotten a list of Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists from my insurance provider. I need to contact some of them and see if this is an area that they deal with and try to talk to her about scheduling an appointment for us. What I am finding in my research for a marriage counselor or sex therapist is that many of them seem to only deal with abuse or trauma issues, or sex addiction, often as part of substance abuse; which isn't really what we are dealing with.


Usually the spouse not interested in sex doesn't see it as a problem, and so is not interested in fixing it or "being fixed", so don't attempt to do that. You might suggest it, but I would not push for therapy. It easily could backfire and make tensions worse. 

I believe Michele offers the best plan for dealing with this in SSM.


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## Kristisha (Apr 29, 2013)

Having sex a few times per year that would catalogued as a sexless marriage , but yours it's in a league of its own, it's that extreme. And the fact that the last time you had sex with your wife was 4 years ago and yet you still initiate sex it's mind boggling.

In a marriage you have to make compromises and to take care care of each other needs but obviously your wife doesn't . I mean it's okay for her not have sex but what about you..? To be honest I don't she will change so you have to think hard if it's worth it at 36 years old to be in a sexless marriage maybe for the rest of your life.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

Kristisha said:


> ... so you have to think hard if it's worth it at 36 years old to be in a sexless marriage maybe for the rest of your life.


I have already made that decision. I will not leave her just because of the lack of sex. 

My parents went through a particularly brutal divorce (that lasted more than 2 years, and another 5 years of custody fights) when I was in my teens and my younger sister and brothers never really handled it well. There's no way that I will put my daughter through that. 

I'm willing to put up with the frustration of no sex to protect her from that misery. But, hopefully we can get some counseling or medical help and revive our sex life.


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## Kristisha (Apr 29, 2013)

Good luck with that!


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## rafael999 (Jun 1, 2015)

OP - I know many men in your situation who see hookers on the side and they are quite happy. If you are not prepared to end things and move on it would be a solution providing you know how to go about undetected.

I would never recommend this option otherwise but if she is denying you something she contracted to when you married - you have a good reason to find satisfaction elsewhere.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

rafael999 said:


> OP - I know many men in your situation who see hookers on the side...


:scratchhead: :rofl: :wtf:


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Dragunov--serious question:

How often does your wife tell you she loves you, and does it sound sincere? How often do you tell her?

Would you say you two have any emotional intimacy? 

Can you communicate openly with each other about any topic?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Your wife is 43 years old. If she hasn't felt revved up over sex by now, I doubt she'll ever have that epiphany at 43 or older. Sorry to see you go through this pain. Just an observation, but IMHO you took all the wind from your sails in regards to your negotiations with your wife to improve the sex life. If you don't let her know that you will NOT tolerate a lack of sex in the marriage anymore, and that ANYTHING is on the table as a means for you to remedy the situation (i.e., divorce or her becoming "female cuckold") then nothing will change. Regardless, it's grossly unfair for her to assume that you should be celibate just because she chooses to do that.


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## Papillon (Jun 26, 2013)

I sure wish my H were as understanding and nice and you seem to be. My H had an affair and blames me because he said we weren't having enough sex, when I was initiating with him in extreme ways almost every day. To him, sex 3 times a day would maybe be sufficient. 

That said, even with my history of sexual abuse (rape) as a teenager and even as a married woman at the hands of my H (in the form of him not accepting no for an answer, not abuse as in anything physically painful), I STILL enjoy sex. I would enjoy it more at the frequency of about once a week, but I still enjoy it. 

I second the opinion that she should see a doctor. Maybe if you let her know how important it is to you, and reassure her that you won't push her into anything she finds uncomfortable, but that you feel you need more intimacy and closeness in your marriage, she will love you enough to work for a solution?

If I had a husband as kind as you, I would do anything for him.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

You are 36. Still very young. You are coming into your prime. I think the only thing to do is divorce in this case. Very sad that there is a 10 year old child involved, but I don't really think there is anything even remotely resembling a "marriage" here. Good luck with whatever you decide. I really feel for you.


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

Two months later: I wish I had positive news to post as an update. But just more of the same. 

Tired talking to her about our issues several times over the last two months. She just makes some flippant remark and brushes it off. One time I asked her if she wanted to have sex, to which she replied "no". I asked, "what if _I_ want to have sex?" and she said that I should get one of those fake vagina sex toys. 

I've tried to find a therapist but my insurance doesn't cover marriage counseling, and the sex therapists that I have contacted charge between $120-$150 per hour, which we can't afford. 

Last night I tried. It was a perfect night. I was home early, our daughter was off with her uncle and his gf and her daughter who is the same age. The house was quiet and neither of us had to get up early today. We watched a movie together and cuddled some, I spent two hours rubbing her back and stroking her hair. She didn't reciprocate in any way. Told her I loved her and she didn't reply at all. 

When we finally went to bed I tried to touch her more intimately and she just pushed me away and said she wanted to go to sleep. She wouldn't even kiss me. 

I was so pissed off at her that I couldn't even get to sleep for another couple of hours. 

I didn't talk to her before I left for work today and haven't talked to her since. 

I'm so frustrated. I don't know what to do.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> she said that I should get one of those fake vagina sex toys.


You sound a lot like this other dork married to this rotund woman who never wanted to give it up. In any case, what are you willing to do?
If you admit it, you're one of these cats that wants to vent but will never do anything but be used by this woman who saw him coming. 
The bottom line is this my man. If you want sex with something beside yourself, get one of those fake vaginas, hire a hooker, or find a girlfriend on the side. One things for sure; your old lady ain't puttin out (at least not for you). And ain't a damn thing your going to be able to do to change it. Get that through your head.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

I am just reading this entire thread for the first time. It brings tears to my eyes. I am so sad to hear this story. 

This sounds like more than denial of sex. She appears to have shut you out completely. It's time to step it up with her. This is emotional abuse!

You say you don't want to cause harm to your daughter by divorcing, but think about what your daughter is observing. A mother who ignores her father and shows no intimacy. THIS is more damaging than the child having two homes. She is teaching her daughter how to treat her future husband. And you are teaching your daughter that a man will accept this type of behavior. Something to think about. 

I am sorry you are here. I don't know anyone who would tolerate this. You would not be selfish by leaving her. Your wife is the selfish one.


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## AlphaMale74 (Oct 15, 2014)

I don't know how you men in sexless marriages stay married! Sex is the one main thing that separates a marriage from any other relationship. 4 years?! I would be out of that marriage and move on.
You and she need to read "The Sex-Starved Marriage" by Michelle Weiner-Davis.
So, she won't have sex with you, but expects you to be faithful to her? How hypocritical. If she wants to be the only game in town, then she needs to be game my friend.


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Dragunov said:


> Two months later: I wish I had positive news to post as an update. But just more of the same.
> 
> Tired talking to her about our issues several times over the last two months. She just makes some flippant remark and brushes it off. One time I asked her if she wanted to have sex, to which she replied "no". I asked, "what if _I_ want to have sex?" and she said that I should get one of those fake vagina sex toys.
> 
> ...


On the contrary I suspect you do know exactly what to do. Its the puling of the trigger and putting this marriage out of its misery that is hard for you. Look this behavior on her part is just plain cruel. I don't know how you guys got to a point where she thought such behavior was tolerable by you but to not even kiss you! Sheesh, this is not just crappy action on her part but that she thinks this is okay to do to you is even worse. That is what would make me the most mad. Heck, I am angry for you!
Begin to bring this sadistic dance to an end right now. Get thee to a lawyer ASAP!


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> Two months later: I wish I had positive news to post as an update. But just more of the same.


What do they say about the definition of insanity? 



Dragunov said:


> Tired talking to her about our issues several times over the last two months. She just makes some flippant remark and brushes it off. One time I asked her if she wanted to have sex, to which she replied "no". I asked, "what if _I_ want to have sex?" and she said that I should get one of those fake vagina sex toys.


Well, what is it about this message that you don't understand? She ain't interested in you bub. 



Dragunov said:


> I've tried to find a therapist but my insurance doesn't cover marriage counseling, and the sex therapists that I have contacted charge between $120-$150 per hour, which we can't afford.


Has she even agreed to go to counseling? If not, you are wasting your time.



Dragunov said:


> Last night I tried. It was a perfect night. I was home early, our daughter was off with her uncle and his gf and her daughter who is the same age. The house was quiet and neither of us had to get up early today. We watched a movie together and cuddled some, I spent two hours rubbing her back and stroking her hair. She didn't reciprocate in any way. Told her I loved her and she didn't reply at all.


There you go. She doesn't love you. You're her B!TCH!



Dragunov said:


> When we finally went to bed I tried to touch her more intimately and she just pushed me away and said she wanted to go to sleep. She wouldn't even kiss me.


Pathetic approach considering the fact that she essentially told you she didn't love you and it wasn't going to happen earlier in the evening. Why would you think a couple hour back rub is going to change that? Covert contract BTW. Not attractive.



Dragunov said:


> I was so pissed off at her that I couldn't even get to sleep for another couple of hours.
> 
> I didn't talk to her before I left for work today and haven't talked to her since.
> 
> I'm so frustrated. I don't know what to do.


Why do you want to be with someone who doesn't love you?

Leave her already!!!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Dragunov said:


> I didn't talk to her before I left for work today and haven't talked to her since.


In other words, you're giving her exactly what she wants.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

I'm all for saving a marriage and working through hard times...and keeping in mind the effects divorce has on children...but wow.

I've been gone from my wife for more than a week...and keeping my hands off myself...and it is nothing but hard...pun intended. 

I will say that when we had our issues, it killed a lot of the desire. So there is a definite root issue there.

If you can afford any kind of counseling, I would try but maybe she does need her life shaken a bit. All she knows is what you've allowed and it's worked out okay for her.

You all deserve a better life. Preferably together but this is one situation where I just wouldn't blame you. 

I'm also not one for labeling everything abuse as an excuse...but this situation would seem to justify it as much as anything.

Good luck!


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## Tito Santana (Jul 9, 2015)

Dragunov said:


> Two months later: I wish I had positive news to post as an update. But just more of the same.
> 
> Tired talking to her about our issues several times over the last two months. She just makes some flippant remark and brushes it off. One time I asked her if she wanted to have sex, to which she replied "no". I asked, "what if _I_ want to have sex?" and she said that I should get one of those fake vagina sex toys.
> 
> ...


Wow. Sorry man. It appears she doesn't love you. No chance she is cheating?

That's no way to live life... Deep down, you know what to do though- Divorce.

There are plenty of good women out there, who will give you the attention you deserve.

Good luck.


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## autopilot (Mar 16, 2012)

She doesn't care what you want or need. Knowing what you need and desire from her and willfully withholding it from you is reprehensible. It just shows how little she values you as a person.

If you don't move on from this situation, you're just enabling her and feeding your own devaluation and poor self-esteem.


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