# Going through R but back to old habits.



## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

I ignored her needs and resorted to porn for sex do to a perceived LD on her part. She strayed. I moved out and we almost did the amicable D. She dated him while I was out of the house and was prepared to basically leave me for him - suppose she did at this point. We have two kids - 2 and 4. I got to the point where I was cool with a D since I questioned my love for her from the beginning (I know long story but I felt pressure for marriage and things moved fast) but balancing the kids got me to realize the portion of their lives and memories I'd never see. So I made a last ditch effort to R before papers were signed. She said no. Then a week later she had a change of heart (I suspect the "fun" dating phase with the guy came to an end and she saw his faults). So we decided to sell our house, move about 1hr away, and she got a new job. Basically try a fresh start. So that's the background. In her new job she's always getting dressed up and she has this friendly personality that many males find intriguing I think because she's hot and she talks to them. So basically the entire time I've been with her, she's told me about men flirting with her. Some are zero threats - fat geeks. Others like her affair partner are threats. Basically I think it's a matter of time before she strays. We are back to how things were only with less fighting. Sex is about 1x every 2-3 weeks. The sex is fun but its been the same for 10 years. Heck I've only got about 6-7 bj''s since we've been together - which resulted in me eliminating going south on her. We stopped saying "I love you" and are roommates with rare benefits. I think she is HD but its lots of work doing the prep work to meet her emotional needs so I can get laid - and have it be routine sex at that. Yes we've talked about this but I guess neither of us are motivated to change. And yes I am lazy and selfish. If I'm going to put all this prep work in I keep thinking - why not do that for some strange? I know what I'm getting with her and she had the exciting affair sex. Also realize that I'll never be real close to a female again. I was good at displaying no emotion before and now I'm more so. I can't emotionally attach to anyone again, so for me it's really about sex. And currently that source is basically my hand and porn since the sex I so get is good but not worth the effort - like I'm cool with getting it maybe once every week or two. It can supplant my other time. If it were sex with someone new and exciting I bet I'd barely if ever want the porn since the sex would be awesome. So now I'm wondering if R is the right move. I love everything about my family life. In-laws are awesome the times we get together with my siblings and their kids is nothing short of pure joy. But without the kids I'm not sure what's left in the marriage. Don't get me wrong, I'm not horribly miserable but rather just sort of going through the motions and settling. I don't want to gamble what I do have for a worse situation. Anyone have a crystal ball that can tell me the right move? How about some other perspectives?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

herblackwings said:


> I ignored her needs and resorted to porn for sex do to a perceived LD on her part. She strayed. I moved out and we almost did the amicable D. She dated him while I was out of the house and was prepared to basically leave me for him - suppose she did at this point. We have two kids - 2 and 4. I got to the point where I was cool with a D since I questioned my love for her from the beginning (I know long story but I felt pressure for marriage and things moved fast) but balancing the kids got me to realize the portion of their lives and memories I'd never see. So I made a last ditch effort to R before papers were signed. She said no. Then a week later she had a change of heart (I suspect the "fun" dating phase with the guy came to an end and she saw his faults). So we decided to sell our house, move about 1hr away, and she got a new job. Basically try a fresh start. So that's the background. In her new job she's always getting dressed up and she has this friendly personality that many males find intriguing I think because she's hot and she talks to them. So basically the entire time I've been with her, she's told me about men flirting with her. Some are zero threats - fat geeks. Others like her affair partner are threats. Basically I think it's a matter of time before she strays. We are back to how things were only with less fighting. Sex is about 1x every 2-3 weeks. The sex is fun but its been the same for 10 years. Heck I've only got about 6-7 bj''s since we've been together - which resulted in me eliminating going south on her. We stopped saying "I love you" and are roommates with rare benefits. I think she is HD but its lots of work doing the prep work to meet her emotional needs so I can get laid - and have it be routine sex at that. Yes we've talked about this but I guess neither of us are motivated to change. And yes I am lazy and selfish. If I'm going to put all this prep work in I keep thinking - why not do that for some strange? I know what I'm getting with her and she had the exciting affair sex. Also realize that I'll never be real close to a female again. I was good at displaying no emotion before and now I'm more so. I can't emotionally attach to anyone again, so for me it's really about sex. And currently that source is basically my hand and porn since the sex I so get is good but not worth the effort - like I'm cool with getting it maybe once every week or two. It can supplant my other time. If it were sex with someone new and exciting I bet I'd barely if ever want the porn since the sex would be awesome. So now I'm wondering if R is the right move. I love everything about my family life. In-laws are awesome the times we get together with my siblings and their kids is nothing short of pure joy. But without the kids I'm not sure what's left in the marriage. Don't get me wrong, I'm not horribly miserable but rather just sort of going through the motions and settling. I don't want to gamble what I do have for a worse situation. Anyone have a crystal ball that can tell me the right move? How about some other perspectives?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's into other men and you're into porn. And topping it all off you have two young kids.

I think you should have finalized the divorce.


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## MambaZee (Aug 6, 2013)

Since you seem to have completely emotionally detached, I don't see why you'd want to stay. I know you have kids, and I'm a parent, too, so I understand when people say they want to stay together for the kids' sake, but this sounds like a very unhappy, non-fulfilling marriage. Marriage shouldn't be so miserable. Yes, we're going to have ups and downs, but do you really want to live out the rest of your life like this? You need to think about that and then decide whether you're willing to fight for this or not. No one here can tell you the future, but can you say you've put 100% of your effort into this and it still didn't work? If you can, then maybe you can walk away. I'd at least try MC or IC before throwing all of this away.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Take a hard look at yourself. Think about what kind of man you should be. For your wife and your kids. Them become that man. 

Or you could continue to kill your M...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you failed to actually change anything when you moved other than location.

Why didnt either of you learn about what it takes to actively build a better marriage and then do it.

You are right that if you keep dong the same junk as before you are going to get the same results.

So now that you see that - change!


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

So are awsome marriage common? To me, I often prefer to do my own thing when time permits. For instance if no prior plans are established for a Friday night, I get excited to play some Xbox or watch a mindless movie that she would hate or both all night. If after the kids are in bed, and "my time" is about to start; she says "hey let's do something or want to watch a
Movie?" Immediately I'm bummed and reluctantly say yes to avoid a fight. Thing is, I think this way about 90% of the time. Occasionally ill get excited to do a date night or something (which 90% of the time ends in no sex and me jerking it - ditto all anniversaries and birthdays). So I don't know - I figure after your with someone for so long things become boring and routine and you sort of do your own thing. I can't grasp some of the marriage stories on her where people are so crazy for each other after so long. The situation is comfortable now financially and in the fily setting. The marriage isn't awsome and I've never felt like marriage was anything specacular - it's just something you did. And with kids I think it's essential. Now I realize that if you don't want kids then its archaic, financially dangerous, and unneseccary. My opinion of course. MC didn't do much for me. At first I felt like doing 100% to save it but now I'm at about 25% or whatever the bare minimum is. Again it's really the marriage that's not great - all else is good to very good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Then why are you still married????? Seriously.


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> Then why are you still married????? Seriously.


Kids and finances. And we fight way less so I'm not nearly miserable as 2 years ago
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

herblackwings said:


> So are awsome marriage common? To me, I often prefer to do my own thing when time permits. For instance if no prior plans are established for a Friday night, I get excited to play some Xbox or watch a mindless movie that she would hate or both all night. If after the kids are in bed, and "my time" is about to start; she says "hey let's do something or want to watch a
> Movie?" Immediately I'm bummed and reluctantly say yes to avoid a fight. Thing is, I think this way about 90% of the time. Occasionally ill get excited to do a date night or something (which 90% of the time ends in no sex and me jerking it - ditto all anniversaries and birthdays). So I don't know - I figure after your with someone for so long things become boring and routine and you sort of do your own thing. I can't grasp some of the marriage stories on her where people are so crazy for each other after so long. The situation is comfortable now financially and in the fily setting. The marriage isn't awsome and I've never felt like marriage was anything specacular - it's just something you did. And with kids I think it's essential. Now I realize that if you don't want kids then its archaic, financially dangerous, and unneseccary. My opinion of course. MC didn't do much for me. At first I felt like doing 100% to save it but now I'm at about 25% or whatever the bare minimum is. Again it's really the marriage that's not great - all else is good to very good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good marriages don't just "happen." They take a lot of work. Work you are not currently putting into yours. Are you willing to do the work? If not, get used to the way things are or move on.


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

It sounds like you don't want a relationship, you want sex on demand. Unless you're happy with random hook-ups, that formula typically doesn't exist, and certainly not in a long-term relationship.

If a marriage is "awesome" as you put it, it's because both partners are invested in each other, make spending time together a priority, and continually engage in activities to foster an emotional and physical connection.

Are you attempting to initiate sex and she is denying you? Or are you assuming she doesn't want to have sex? What energy are you offering to elevate sex beyond "routine"? Have you had an open conversation with her regarding the state of your relationship, or do you just disappear after your parenting duties for the day are done and then wonder why your partnership is suffering?

She is a person, just like you, with independent wants, needs, and hopes - not just a parent or housekeeper or employee. When was the last time you both chose to engage with each other as people? 

No marriage is "awesome" by chance. It takes effort and focus to ensure your romantic relationship is a priority, and you both are selfless enough to focus on your spouse, recognizing and trusting that your partner will be there to fulfill you in return.

You can both change your path, if you choose to. She doesn't have to choose an affair, and you don't have to choose to marginalize her when it's convenient for you. If you're not going to pursue a better relationship with each other, then divorce.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

You seem to be saying that your marriage sucks, but not as bad as it used to but you are not prepared to do anything about it.

Sounds like everyone is happy - so what question are you asking?

Try harder at your marriage. If it doesn't improve things, tell your wife to buck up or get lost.

Easy peasy.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

For the kids. So they can grow up and see first hand what a dysfunctional family is like, with a mother who's an adulteress and with parents who do not respect each other.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

herblackwings said:


> Kids and finances. And we fight way less so I'm not nearly miserable as 2 years ago
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



If you do intend to stay together now, you'll also have to fight your mind movies of her with her lover.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Ovid said:


> Take a hard look at yourself. Think about what kind of man you should be. For your wife and your kids. Them become that man.
> 
> Or you could continue to kill your M...


This.

It sort of sounds like you are a tit-4-tat scorekeeper type. That is resulting in passive aggressive traits like the "I won't do this because she doesn't do that." Try flipping things in your head. You want a bj every now and again. She can or she can not, but that is her choice. The next issue is you need to decide if you want to go down on her or not; That’s your choice. Don’t let the other issue cloud why you should or shouldn’t. It should really be a question of “do you want to or not?”

Then keep expanding it throughout your life. Instead of making excuses and talking yourself out of stuff, just look at it as a simple question of ‘do I want to or not?”.

I’d also suggest stopping porn for a bit. Sounds like you are trying to replace sex with it, and they aren’t the same thing at all. Pick up some hobbies, particularly social ones with other people. Get out and do stuff. And stop treating this as a ‘marriage’. Treat it as ‘dating’. I found that helped me drop expectations I might have for the role of wife (as well as expectations for myself of what a good husband is). You might find a bit more success that way.


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

aug said:


> If you do intend to stay together now, you'll also have to fight your mind movies of her with her lover.


That bothered me at first but she's human and I get her reasons. It's just sex - she did it before I knew her and will likely again if we stay married or not. Years ago that "movie" would've enraged me and drove me insane. I'm detached from that. I'm not normal in that sense and the close buddies I've consulted with dont understand my passive view on it. They thought I should dismember the guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

Mrs_mathias and Racer - thanks for the thought provoking responses. I need to think about your words more. This is why MC didn't work for me. 3 different councilers and hundreds of $$ spent when there are people here who have as much (and likely more) wisdom/advice than the "professionals"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

herblackwings said:


> That bothered me at first but she's human and I get her reasons. It's just sex - she did it before I knew her and will likely again if we stay married or not. Years ago that "movie" would've enraged me and drove me insane. I'm detached from that. I'm not normal in that sense and the close buddies I've consulted with dont understand my passive view on it. They thought I should dismember the guy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Sizing this up. You really don't care about your marriage and she doesn't either. Staying in the marriage for the kids isn't healthy for none of you. Both of you are just going through the motions and the kids DO pick up on that. I would just end it if your not happy and you know that she's going to do it again.


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> It sounds like you're detached from your wife, not just the mind movies thing.
> 
> Chicken and egg - do you have a bad marriage because you are detached, or are you detached because you have a bad marriage?
> 
> ...


Do you have kids? Without them the answer is clear to me. The amount of effort/work to make this a great marriage seems scary when I could likely move onto something new. But the breaking of the family is not something I think I can handle right now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

herblackwings said:


> I'm not normal in that sense and the close buddies I've consulted with dont understand my passive view on it. They thought I should dismember the guy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why? Did he rape her? No. She banged him willingly and often. Probably gave OM all the things she never gave you, including multiple BJs on command. That's how affair sex is. She gave him what she wouldn't give you. 

This resentment has resulted in you detaching from her. Like you said, she got her fun, and you got nothing. She never had any real consequences from her affair, so she is probably doing it again or is about to do it again. Your gut is usually not wrong.

How long do you want to live in limbo like this? Sure, it doesn't suck as bad as last time, but think about it: You aren't happy or satisfied with your marriage either.


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2012)

herblackwings said:


> Kids and finances. And we fight way less so I'm not nearly miserable as 2 years ago
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then this may be all you get out of marriage.

Plenty of people have stayed together for children. As long as your wife is civil, decent to the kids, takes care of her areas of responsibility (whatever they are) and isn't making you miserable, it sounds like a livable situation.

You want something more? Like companionship, happiness, togetherness, bonding? You will both have to put in more effort. 

MC is key. You two don't sound that interested in each other. What brought you together in the first place?

best of luck.
-FH


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

aug said:


> For the kids. So they can grow up and see first hand what a dysfunctional family is like, with a mother who's an adulteress and with parents who do not respect each other.


I agree if things are even remotely hostile. That's not the case we barely fight or argue even. So I'm not sure thee is any damage being done. We do get funny looks on the very rare occasion that we hug/kiss more than just a peck on the lips. Maybe that will impact their marriage someday - who knows since most marriages are unique.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> Why? Did he rape her? No. She banged him willingly and often. Probably gave OM all the things she never gave you, including multiple BJs on command. That's how affair sex is. She gave him what she wouldn't give you.
> 
> This resentment has resulted in you detaching from her. Like you said, she got her fun, and you got nothing. She never had any real consequences from her affair, so she is probably doing it again or is about to do it again. Your gut is usually not wrong.
> 
> How long do you want to live in limbo like this? Sure, it doesn't suck as bad as last time, but think about it: You aren't happy or satisfied with your marriage either.



You are right - she did all that and maybe more. I really can't trust her and am detached - I suppose the answer is clear but I seriously saw negative impact on the kids while I moved out for 2 months. Not much but it wasn't good. Plus she mentioned taking them camping - bam it was an eye opener as I realized all the things I'd miss. So yeah I keep going back and forth in my mind on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

Foghorn said:


> Then this may be all you get out of marriage.
> 
> Plenty of people have stayed together for children. As long as your wife is civil, decent to the kids, takes care of her areas of responsibility (whatever they are) and isn't making you miserable, it sounds like a livable situation.
> 
> ...


Happiness is relative and as far as the closeness/bonding - those arnt something I've ever really desired. I'm sort of intrigued by successful marriages that have that. Not because its what I want but it incomprehensible to me. I don't see that happening. And I view this as neither bad nor good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Why? Did he rape her? No. She banged him willingly and often. Probably gave OM all the things she never gave you, including multiple BJs on command. That's how affair sex is. She gave him what she wouldn't give you.
> 
> *This resentment has resulted in you detaching from her. *


I beg to differ here, he wasn't invested from the very beggining, he was already detached or better he never attached himself enough to beging with.
He himself wrote this.
This is way mind movies never bothered him nor the betrayal itself. He likely felt releaved at the end of the marriage at first, later changed mind for the kids.
The thread title says it all, "old habits", he's in the same routine as before the affair becasue it's how he feels like doing. He stopped loving her way before she cheated.

Trying R was a mistake. No MC will work for him as he's not "into it", into saving the marriage.

Man, get out of that funk, hit the gym... whatever, wake up and decide whether to give your marriage a honest try ot start a new life. I suspect you believe if you divorce you will carry a similar life only that divorced. You seem depressed and coasting life, with no drive to improve it at any level. "just" divorcing won't change anything the same way that moving away didn't change anything. The change needs to come from within.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

You just brush over the details of her A, but to me it sounds like there was a fair amount of rug sweeping and that she's not truly remorseful.

If she was, her attitude toward sex with you would be improved. She should want to show you that she loves you by meeting your sexual needs - especially in the weeks and months following Dday.

It's hard for a BS to be motivated to be a better partner, when in the aftermath of an A, the WS doesn't demonstrate the remorse needed for a successful R.

If she can't or won't show you that she is remorseful, you're destined for continuing this marital limbo. Your choice is to demand it with the ultimatum of D, or to accept business as usual and continue to live in this purgatory. 

That's your decision. But all I can tell you is the latter option wouldn't be something that I could accept - from a wife who broke her marriage vows.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

So, every night when my H gets into bed, I look at him and think how attractive he is and how much I love him and want to be close to him. Every night. Even the nights I'm angry with him. And when he turns toward me and props himself up on his elbow and gets that dreamy look in his eyes, I wouldn't think of 'not being interested.' And when we later fall asleep holding hands, I feel very safe and secure.

So, marriage can be good. I've been fighting the good fight for many decades now and it's been worth it. If you love your W, you find ways to show her. She deserves to have you express your love, just as you deserve to feel it from her. Sex is a huge part of that. If you want the other good parts - the kids, family, etc. - then make the effort to establish some real loving intimacy. Do it for her, not for what you will get out of it. If she feels it from you, the chances are good that she will give it back to you.

Right now, neither one of you sounds invested in the marriage. She cheated and you are oddly unmoved by that. If you want to keep the family unit together, you have to find an intimate, emotional meeting point for the two of you.


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

Acabado said:


> I beg to differ here, he wasn't invested from the very beggining, he was already detached or better he never attached himself enough to beging with.
> He himself wrote this.
> This is way mind movies never bothered him nor the betrayal itself. He likely felt releaved at the end of the marriage at first, later changed mind for the kids.
> The thread title says it all, "old habits", he's in the same routine as before the affair becasue it's how he feels like doing. He stopped loving her way before she cheated.
> ...


Impressive. This is all true. When she told me of the A I was very shocked but even more shocking was my reaction -I had to leave because I couldn't even fake anger, cry, or emotion other than surprise. So I grabbed a bag and quickly left because i felt weird about it. 

Living along for 2 months was great - spent time with my kids and had my own time to work out and hang with friends or watch mindless guy movies. But moving back in was also great taking family trip to visit my family and to see the kids all the time again. But now it's routine again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> So, every night when my H gets into bed, I look at him and think how attractive he is and how much I love him and want to be close to him. Every night. Even the nights I'm angry with him. And when he turns toward me and props himself up on his elbow and gets that dreamy look in his eyes, I wouldn't think of 'not being interested.' And when we later fall asleep holding hands, I feel very safe and secure.
> 
> So, marriage can be good. I've been fighting the good fight for many decades now and it's been worth it. If you love your W, you find ways to show her. She deserves to have you express your love, just as you deserve to feel it from her. Sex is a huge part of that. If you want the other good parts - the kids, family, etc. - then make the effort to establish some real loving intimacy. Do it for her, not for what you will get out of it. If she feels it from you, the chances are good that she will give it back to you.



That seems like a Lifetime movie to me. I'm happy for you. I think what you have is rare.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

herblackwings said:


> Happiness is relative and as far as the closeness/bonding - those arnt something I've ever really desired. I'm sort of intrigued by successful marriages that have that. Not because its what I want but it incomprehensible to me. I don't see that happening. And I view this as neither bad nor good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Begs the question why you bothered getting married in the first place.

Mindless movies, porn and video games; all that escapism is such a waste. You behave as if you don't value what little time you have on the planet.


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

azteca1986 said:


> Begs the question why you bothered getting married in the first place.
> 
> Mindless movies, porn and video games; all that escapism is such a waste. You behave as if you don't value what little time you have on the planet.


I was young and there was pressure. Regarding the later, I could say the same about people wasting their lives watching sports or anything else I deem boring. I don't exclusively do those activities. If I have some down time at the end of the night or feel like a lazy Friday night - then yep and it's extremely entertaining.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Alright. You can have a relationship with this woman. It is complex as hell, but a relationship none the less. Sounds sort of like the situation I’m in. I put a link to my story in my signature. The basic gist of it is that it does not meet my ideals of what a marriage is. That dream is dead. So it’s just two individuals living our lives together and enjoying what each other brings to the table. Where we want to go in our lives happens to follow the same path more or less. We just have different ways of getting there. 

So with my perception swap, I expect very little. Sort of the stuff I might expect when dating someone. What she chooses to give I appreciate and visa-versa. So we do fun stuff together like go out, flirt, chat, etc. There is enough that I wish to continue the relationship. 

But I know I am on my own and thus it is where my head is at. I do things I want to do or think I should be doing just because it is the right thing (using my own moral and ethics compass for life). There is a serious detachment from her and the outcome of this relationship. I let the relationship and her be what they want to be instead of trying to force it one way or the other.

It works more or less. It’s that detachment that does it for me. The relationship is not secure, nor do I act like it’s something it isn’t. The basics; We all want to be loved and accepted. Instead of demanding it, be a person worthy of it. That insecurity in the relationship does mean she works on her end of things instead of just expecting it should be a certain way. She lost that and I made her well aware of that fact. Now how I see her isn’t clouded by how I want to see her. And how I treat her so she is aware of how she is acting.

So always start by looking in the mirror. Who is the man you see and where does he need improvement? Don’t consider what your wife wants... consider only what you want out of your life and your expectations for yourself. Then get to work. Show and share with her how you are doing it and why you want to do this for yourself... lead. She may follow or get left behind, but that is her choice to make. As you grow and change, things get better. Even if the relationship doesn’t work out, you’ll find others like this new you.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

herblackwings said:


> I was young and there was pressure.


Weren't we all young once 



> Regarding the later, I could say the same about people wasting their lives watching sports or anything else I deem boring. I don't exclusively do those activities. If I have some down time at the end of the night or feel like a lazy Friday night - then yep and it's extremely entertaining.


Watching sports is escapist, but it's a shared passion; it's tribal nature and sense of belonging make it very different in nature to the other activities you mentioned as there are actual people to interact with. More hassle, more effort - more rewarding.

I've nothing against porn or video games, btw (won't do 'mindless' movies - my time's too precious), just wouldn't do them exclusively.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

herblackwings said:


> Do you have kids? Without them the answer is clear to me.


Yeah......


Chris989 said:


> We have 2 children, 15 and 10.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris989


You already made an erroneous assumption, please don't further it by going the age route.




> The amount of effort/work to make this a great marriage seems scary when I could likely move onto something new. But the breaking of the family is not something I think I can handle right now
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are breaking the family, that's the part you refuse to grasp.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> So, every night when my H gets into bed, I look at him and think how attractive he is and how much I love him and want to be close to him. Every night. Even the nights I'm angry with him. And when he turns toward me and props himself up on his elbow and gets that dreamy look in his eyes, I wouldn't think of 'not being interested.' And when we later fall asleep holding hands, I feel very safe and secure.
> 
> So, marriage can be good. I've been fighting the good fight for many decades now and it's been worth it. If you love your W, you find ways to show her. She deserves to have you express your love, just as you deserve to feel it from her. Sex is a huge part of that. If you want the other good parts - the kids, family, etc. - then make the effort to establish some real loving intimacy. Do it for her, not for what you will get out of it. If she feels it from you, the chances are good that she will give it back to you.
> 
> Right now, neither one of you sounds invested in the marriage. She cheated and you are oddly unmoved by that. If you want to keep the family unit together, you have to find an intimate, emotional meeting point for the two of you.


this is a pretty good post but here's where I disagree - 

_She deserves to have you express your love, just as you deserve to feel it from her. Sex is a huge part of that. If you want the other good parts - the kids, family, etc. - then make the effort to establish some real loving intimacy. Do it for her, not for what you will get out of it. If she feels it from you, the chances are good that she will give it back to you._

she deservED to have you express your love. she no longer deserves anything from you. she cheated; in my book that means you now owe her nothing. she destroyed the foundation of the marriage when she did this.

OP - detachment is exactly what you should be feeling for her, which allows the BS to succesfully move on from the WS, which I think is the best thing for the WS in most cases - i.e. Divorce. But something else is going on with you; something unrelated to her cheating, because as I read your posts "detachment" seems to be a natural state of being for you - sounds more like emotional 'numbness' Are you generally sad, or depressed? have you ever done IC, or considered it?


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

I think we should stop implying that his wife cheated. Sounds like she didn't do anything wrong. Her husband liked porn more than he liked her, so they separated. She started seeing someone else. It's no different than the guys here telling a newly separated guy to go get laid by a much younger hotter female than his wife to help with his ego boost. 

If you aren't going to pay attention to your wife, she deserves to have someone who does want too. Stop the banking your f#cking chain long enough to save your marriage...or don't. But make a decision and stick to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Okay, nevermind I missed the "she strayed" part. Never an excuse for cheating. But there isn't an excuse for your porn dependency either.


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> this is a pretty good post but here's where I disagree -
> 
> _She deserves to have you express your love, just as you deserve to feel it from her. Sex is a huge part of that. If you want the other good parts - the kids, family, etc. - then make the effort to establish some real loving intimacy. Do it for her, not for what you will get out of it. If she feels it from you, the chances are good that she will give it back to you._
> 
> ...


I'd say more bored than depressed. Actually I felt happier living apart but I'm not sure how long term that would be considering the kids and lack family time. I tried IC but it wasn't helpful. Perhaps the counciler wasn't the best. I don't know, but $100 a pop, I'm not going to keep trying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

lisab0105 said:


> I think we should stop implying that his wife cheated. Sounds like she didn't do anything wrong. Her husband liked porn more than he liked her, so they separated. She started seeing someone else. It's no different than the guys here telling a newly separated guy to go get laid by a much younger hotter female than his wife to help with his ego boost.
> 
> If you aren't going to pay attention to your wife, she deserves to have someone who does want too. Stop the banking your f#cking chain long enough to save your marriage...or don't. But make a decision and stick to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> ...


From the get go, she was LD (or so it seemed) and the little sex we did have was routine. Porn was just as fulfilling with less work. I did convey my unhappiness of our lack of a good sex life, but nothing changed. So her needs weren't met either and she expresses that to me many times and in tears. I ignored the pleas and so she got her needs met elsewhere. I get it. I'm not blaming myself nor do I fault her to the degree some might. But my struggle now is to take a hard look at what the next 10-15 years will be like. We work well together in raising our children but our marriage is loveless. I think of us as business partners trying to build successful kids and financially stable family unit. Once kids are out I'm not sure there will be anything left. I'm sure a D is obvious to most, but we arnt hostile and both want the same for the kids and financially. So we have similar goals and paths to get there. Im getting as little sex as I ever have. She's detached from me so seems to be doing much better emotionally but I'm sure would like to do that emotional closeness/bonding stuff that women seem to need. So things arnt completely broken here. But it's not a good marriage either.

I do appreciate all the responses though. Talking through stuff with people i know sucks so i avoid it. I feel judged or that they judge her. MC's have a financial interest in seeing me. Here I can get the good, bad and ugly with no liability.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

herblackwings said:


> Do you have kids? Without them the answer is clear to me. The amount of effort/work to make this a great marriage seems scary when I could likely move onto something new. But the breaking of the family is not something I think I can handle right now
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My kids are now 16 and 11 (phillyandbess got the quote from my original story in May '12).

My point is - although I didn't express it very well at all - that our family is now more broken than it was in many ways; broken very directly by my ex wife's betrayal that began in Autumn 2009. 

I did try to fix our marriage before her betrayal, but gave up. Maybe you tried once too and now you've given up. It _sounds_ as though you didn't try - at least not for long - but that is a moot point.

We are where we are, though, and a family isn't something you can "repair", you can only renew at best.

It is oft quoted on this forum, although I don't necessarily buy into it, but they say _it is better for children to come from a broken home than to live in one_.

I have, so far, taken a very deliberate and measured decision to stay. My ex wife is absolutely remorseful and trying everything she knows how to make things work. I effectively brought our children up in many ways and my relationship with them is stronger than my ex wife's.

I should have divorced her in Jan 2007 when I knew she was having what I now know of as an emotional affair with the POS she ended up betraying us for; I would have been 6 years down the line rebuilding my family and would have avoided the pain we all went through after her betrayal, but them's the breaks...


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

After reading all of your responses, I have to confess that you are the most puzzling BS I have ever read or heard about.

You are so emotionally detached, and apparently have been since before the M ever occurred, that I am led to wonder if you have ever been diagnosed with any emotional disorder by a physician.

You almost seem detached even from yourself. Like you could have been the character inspiration for Spock to Gene Roddenberry.

Are you not afraid that your kids, as they age, will notice the odd interaction and obvious emotional distance you and your WW display and internalize it as a model for a good relationship?

There is more to good parenting and a healthy family environment than mere physical comfort and vacation time for the kids IMO.

Also, if you are this uncaring towards your W, and apparently always have been, you are doing her and you no good to stay in this desolate wasteland of a M. 

End the limbo. File for D and go through with it this time.


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> My kids are now 16 and 11 (phillyandbess got the quote from my original story in May '12).
> 
> My point is - although I didn't express it very well at all - that our family is now more broken than it was in many ways; broken very directly by my ex wife's betrayal that began in Autumn 2009.
> 
> ...



That sucks. There is no clear cut answer. We've made big changes
Recently - moving etc... It'd be too much on the kids for me to leave (again). I'm almost certain that in time with her new job, some dude will be hitting on her and the cycle will repeat. I might just prep for that day to make an exit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

lisab0105 said:


> I think we should stop implying that his wife cheated. Sounds like she didn't do anything wrong. Her husband liked porn more than he liked her, so they separated. She started seeing someone else. It's no different than the guys here telling a newly separated guy to go get laid by a much younger hotter female than his wife to help with his ego boost.
> 
> If you aren't going to pay attention to your wife, she deserves to have someone who does want too. Stop the banking your f#cking chain long enough to save your marriage...or don't. But make a decision and stick to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> ...


Maybe he's "dependent" on porn because he doesn't get laid.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

herblackwings said:


> Also realize that I'll never be real close to a female again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WOW!. Hit the nail on the head. If I stay in this loveless sexless marriage of mine any longer, that is the price I will pay. And not only will I never be close to a woman again, but it has been 20 years since i have been close to one, and I don't think it was ever her.

My one regret for choosing to stay is that I will never be close to a woman again.

Ladies, please don't marry for safe. You will eventually need passion, and "Safe Man" isn't going to ever give it to you.


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> OP,
> 
> After reading all of your responses, I have to confess that you are the most puzzling BS I have ever read or heard about.
> 
> ...



Lol - yeah you are reading my unfiltered thoughts...well to an extent. What can I say, I'm unique. I'm sure it'd be easy to envision the fat, uneducated, unemployed, lazy, porn addicted husband who leaches off the hard working wife. I can assure you that's not the case. I do well enough, women want me, men want to be me, and ninjas fear me. Seriously though, I think it would be worse to have the kids in a broken home than to think its strang for mom and dad to make out or give random acts of affection to each other. And no I'm not emotionally unstable like that and do not need psychological exam. Thanks though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

You're detached and apathetic about your marriage. Do you think your wife is going to be okay with this, say, 5 years later?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

aug said:


> You're detached and apathetic about your marriage. Do you think your wife is going to be okay with this, say, 5 years later?


I always think these kinds of answers are a bit naive... Don’t get me wrong, because someone well adjusted with themselves and relationships would think like that. But that isn’t who you are dealing with. A wayward couldn’t leave the marriage through divorce; They didn’t have “that strength” even though it has always been an option. 

It’s a kind of ‘power’ the BS has. What choice would the WS have? The history is they will not divorce and will remain in a loveless marriage (ILYBNILWY). That is “normal” in their heads. As long as it doesn’t become a abusive relationship, it’s kind of hard to push a wayward into divorce. I’ve seen a lot of people who’ve tried doing nasty RA’s, getting violent, and verbally abusive. Still, most waywards won’t go even when folks are advising them to run cause it has gotten really ugly; They still don’t want to be ‘the one’ to file. 

Do you really think a “pretty fun friend with benefits & co-parent / roommate” type relationship is gonna become a dealbreaker? For a normal person.. It might. For someone carrying a ton of issues... business as usual. 

Even if she gets her head on straight, there will be guilt over her past and a sense she owes him making the choice that much harder.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

I wasn't implying you were emotionally unstable or any of the other descriptions such as fat, lazy leach, etc., either.

You do not seem crazy/insane to me at all in the sense of unpredictability or odd, off the wall behavior.

In fact you seem very lucid and mentally balanced.

But to be so emotionally dead strikes me as not normal behavior, especially since you admit that it has been this way since the beginning of the relationship, so its obviously NOT a case of detaching after an affair and dealing with an unremorseful spouse.

And I'm not trying to insult or hurt you in any way either, OP.

It just strikes me as so uncommon. 

There are indeed people who suffer from emotional disorders that do not allow them to communicate or connect normally with others.

I'm not even trying to say or diagnose you as having one, but your level of detachment to your entire life and M just reminds me of the descriptions I have read about people who suffer from them.

Like I said, you seem to put Spock to shame.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

lisab0105 said:


> I think we should stop implying that his wife cheated.


I didn't. I said he is breaking the marriage. So, if he is detached, it is time to go.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

lisab,

He said she strayed and then he left and they separated. 

So she did cheat.

OP did not really make it clear if the OM was the same guy she continued seeing while they were separated.


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