# Am i wrong to travel without him?



## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

I am really torn about my problem. Let's go back to the beginning. My GF has been wanted me to go with her to her home country for years and this year the opportunity came up.
This trip is for almost 5 weeks and halfway around the world.
Well the night of the final booking decision my hubby was drunk (which is freqent) and told me to do what you want. We booked - now the last month has been like living a nightmare.
He has gotten so crazy about me going and is now hinting (he won't actually say the words) that I have to make a decision, either the trip or him. Am I wrong in taking a girls trip without my husband?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

A 5 week trip without him seems excessive, to be honest. Whether it's grounds for an ultimatum is another thing...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

PBear said:


> A 5 week trip without him seems excessive, to be honest. Whether it's grounds for an ultimatum is another thing...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree 5 weeks is a long time. I wouldn't want to go that long without seeing my spouse either. Is their no other shorter option for like a week?


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## DoktorFun (Feb 25, 2014)

torn up said:


> I am really torn about my problem. Let's go back to the beginning. My GF has been wanted me to go with her to her home country for years and this year the opportunity came up.
> This trip is for almost 5 weeks and halfway around the world.
> Well the night of the final booking decision my hubby was drunk (which is freqent) and told me to do what you want. We booked - now the last month has been like living a nightmare.
> He has gotten so crazy about me going and is now hinting (he won't actually say the words) that I have to make a decision, either the trip or him. Am I wrong in taking a girls trip without my husband?


*Yes!*


girls trip without my husband... so obvious. :scratchhead:


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

torn up said:


> I am really torn about my problem. Let's go back to the beginning. My GF has been wanted me to go with her to her home country for years and this year the opportunity came up.
> This trip is for almost 5 weeks and halfway around the world.
> Well the night of the final booking decision *my hubby was drunk (which is freqent) and told me to do what you want.* We booked - now the last month has been like living a nightmare.
> He has gotten so crazy about me going and is now hinting (he won't actually say the words) that I have to make a decision, either the trip or him. Am I wrong in taking a girls trip without my husband?


I'd say 5 weeks without your husband is a long time to echo what others have said. I highlighted something that interests me in your OP. You hint at marital problems, interpreted based on how you phrased the above in bold. If your marriage was strong, would you consider a 5 week long trip halfway around the globe without your husband?

Can you modify the return trip and stay for 2 weeks only? That could be another option to help salvage this.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

When my friend goes home the length of the trip is alway 4-5 weeks. The travel time alone is about 27 hours. She would go with me or without me, it doesn't matter. I don't expect her to change her plans because of me. There have been a lot of plans made for the time we are there and payments are made too.

I guess too what it really boils down to is that it's kind of a battle of wills. If I cancel I will be upset that I am losing out on a trip of a lifetime because of him and then of course will I lose my marriage because of this trip.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

torn up said:


> *This trip is for almost 5 weeks and halfway around the world.
> Well the night of the final booking decision my hubby was drunk (which is freqent) and told me to do what you want. We booked - now the last month has been like living a nightmare.*


Seems to me that your husband set you up.

Whilst i agree that five weeks is a long time , why does he think it is ok to tell you " do what you want " and then change his mind halfway through, in addition to suddenly start issuing ultimatums ?

Is this what normally passes for communication in your marriage?

I suspect that the problem is deeper than this trip.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I agree with some of the other posters... It seems that there's a lot more broken than just this trip.

Having said that... From my perspective, the concerns would be the cost, time away from spouse, a reduction in the holidays spent WITH the spouse, etc. Heck, my SO of three years just asked me if it was ok for her to go on a girl's weekend, much less a 5 week trip. While I can't say I'd break up with her over a long trip like that, I also don't think it would even come up in conversation, because she respects our relationship too much to do that.

C


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you were taking 5 week trips without him all the time, I'd say that you it's not a good idea. But like you say, this is a once in a lifetime trip. Surely, for one time in your entire marriage he can live without you for 5 weeks.

In a way he did set you up by saying yes and then now changing his mind. That's not good at all.

He's a grown man and should be able to live 5 weeks without you there. Will you have skype available where you are going? perhaps you can calm him down by setting up a schedule when you will Skype with him, email often, phone a lot if your phone plan allows that.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> why does he think it is ok to tell you " do what you want " and then change his mind halfway through, in addition to suddenly start issuing ultimatums ?


"Do what you want" usually means "I don't want you to do this, but you won't listen to me." It's typically said by a passive-aggressive partner to a stubborn one.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Is there a reason you asked him when he was drunk?


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. It seems like a 50/50 split.

Let me say this. I love my husband very much and we have been together going on 20 years. This trip is for my friend to visit with her family, so we will spend the whole time with one sister, then the other sister and then with her parents. We will be doing some travelling around, but always with family. 
I do intend to call home through Skype video calling as much as possible, I would say that probably a few times each week.

We are not some young chicks going with the intention of hooking up with any guys. Why would we want to??????

It interests me that several of you feel there are bigger problems in our marriage. I don't know if I really want to delve deeper into that for fear of what I might find. I do know that I am content and have somewhat accepted some of the problems.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

Becasue that is most of the time.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

John Lee said:


> Is there a reason you asked him when he was drunk?


 That is more often than not


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

torn up said:


> Becasue that is most of the time.


If your husband was not an alcoholic, would you feel differently about this trip?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

You don't have to go for the whole length of her trip -- there's no reason you can't fly back on your own.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

torn up said:


> Thanks for the replies. It seems like a 50/50 split.
> 
> Let me say this. I love my husband very much and we have been together going on 20 years. This trip is for my friend to visit with her family, so we will spend the whole time with one sister, then the other sister and then with her parents. We will be doing some travelling around, but always with family.
> I do intend to call home through Skype video calling as much as possible, I would say that probably a few times each week.
> ...


If you're not going to delve into the problems, you're not likely to find any solutions. So I hope you enjoy your situation as it degrades over time. Which is what will happen as resentments and frustrations fester. The "bad things" like this situation will keep piling up, and any good things will be forgotten.

C


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

IF he's a drunk then you have a problem in your marriage.

But, under normal circumstances one should not take a 5 week vacation away from their spouse.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

MSP said:


> "Do what you want" usually means "I don't want you to do this, but you won't listen to me." It's typically said by a passive-aggressive partner to a stubborn one.


So then, there_ is _something wrong with the communication dynamic between them.

One seems passive aggressive and the other seems headstrong.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If your husband was not an alcoholic, would you feel differently about this trip?


Not at all.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

torn up said:


> Thanks for the replies. It seems like a 50/50 split.
> 
> Let me say this. I love my husband very much and we have been together going on 20 years. This trip is for my friend to visit with her family, so we will spend the whole time with one sister, then the other sister and then with her parents. We will be doing some travelling around, but always with family.
> I do intend to call home through Skype video calling as much as possible, I would say that probably a few times each week.
> ...


The problem might nit really the trip or the length of time.
But it might lie in how both of you are approaching this issue , after 20 years of marriage.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> The problem might nit really the trip or the length of time.
> But it might lie in how both of you are approaching this issue , after 20 years of marriage.


What do you mean - how we are approaching this issue?


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

It IS a long time to be away. I wouldn't want to leave my husband for 5 weeks, or vice versa. BUT, if it was for the trip of a lifetime, then both of us would understand and let the person go. Not without missing them like crazy though. 

My husband was away for a week during winter and I missed him terribly during the night time. During the day though, it was like I was living on my own again! 

Still, your husband should not be making your life hell because you are going away on a trip. You should both be planning how you will be keeping in touch, (skype, email, ect) and making a plan for how you will survive being away from each other for 5 weeks. He shouldn't be making your life hell though, that isn't healthy or fair to you.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

Hicks said:


> IF he's a drunk then you have a problem in your marriage.
> 
> But, under normal circumstances one should not take a 5 week vacation away from their spouse.


I suppose a part of the problem is that personally I don't see anything wrong with it. My parents have been happily married for over 50 years and my Mom has taken many holidays without my Dad. I remember that she went to England with my Aunt for a month. They never considered it a problem, so I don't either.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

torn up said:


> What do you mean - how we are approaching this issue?


Like an earlier poster suggested, him saying " do what you want" in response to you when you brought the idea to him was a passive aggressive move , whether he was drunk or not.

But it seems that both of you are on polar opposites on this issue, and neither willing to compromise .
Do you see any room for compromise in this issue?
Are you willing to compromise?

What about him, do you think he would be willing to accept some other arrangement or is he totally against this trip?
If so , why?
If not, then what do you think is bothering him?


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

My husband and I do not take separate vacations. He wouldn't mind me going on a girls' getaway but not for more than a week or two. He would miss me too much.

I work evenings now and my husband hates having to go to bed alone, as well as eat dinner by himself. He loves coming home to his wife. I make up for it by spending a lot of time with him on his days off.

The passive aggression and drinking are the real issues in the OP's marriage.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

Ashalicious said:


> It IS a long time to be away. I wouldn't want to leave my husband for 5 weeks, or vice versa. BUT, if it was for the trip of a lifetime, then both of us would understand and let the person go. Not without missing them like crazy though.
> 
> My husband was away for a week during winter and I missed him terribly during the night time. During the day though, it was like I was living on my own again!
> 
> Still, your husband should not be making your life hell because you are going away on a trip. You should both be planning how you will be keeping in touch, (skype, email, ect) and making a plan for how you will survive being away from each other for 5 weeks. He shouldn't be making your life hell though, that isn't healthy or fair to you.


Thank you - that is exactly my thoughts too.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Maybe he was shocked that she actually went through with it? 

Judging his actions after the fact, he wanted her to chose him over the trip. When she chose the 5 weeks away from him, he snapped.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous for a married person to take a 5 week pleasure/leisure trip without their spouse. 

Can I ask how old you guys are?
How long have you been married? 20 yrs you say?
How is your husbands relationship with your travel friend?
How is your relationship with your husband, otherwise?
Do you travel with your husband?
Do you both work?

I find it odd that you would want to spend 5 weeks away from your husband. If you are working, surely that would be all of your annual vacation time, spent with another person. I don't get it.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Ashalicious said:


> It IS a long time to be away. I wouldn't want to leave my husband for 5 weeks, or vice versa. BUT, if it was for the trip of a lifetime, then both of us would understand and let the person go. Not without missing them like crazy though. ....


Really??

Shouldn't the "trip of your lifetime" be taken WITH your spouse?


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> Like an earlier poster suggested, him saying " do what you want" in response to you when you brought the idea to him was a passive aggressive move , whether he was drunk or not.
> 
> But it seems that both of you are on polar opposites on this issue, and neither willing to compromise .
> Do you see any room for compromise in this issue?
> ...


Am I willing to compromise? I can't see it. I am very stubborn and headstrong as was suggested. I will also tell you that this trip was a gift from my parents for helping out so much after my Mom's recent surgery. I will never get this opportunity again.
A fully paid trip to Africa is like a dream come true.

Why is he so against this trip? Good question.
I don't know what other arrangement would work.
He doesn't get to go seems to be a big part of it. He has been coming up with some really crazy ideas though, like first he kept saying that the incidence of rape in Aftrica is huge, them it was that Cape Town was full of gays and would create a problem. Next it is the dangerous animals. He even went onto the internet and was all concerned about a news bit he read that HIV is on the rise in South Africa.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

tulsy said:


> Maybe he was shocked that she actually went through with it?
> 
> Judging his actions after the fact, he wanted her to chose him over the trip. When she chose the 5 weeks away from him, he snapped.
> 
> ...


I am in my 50's and he's in his 60's. We travel quite a lot together, usually 2 or 3 times a year. He has a great relationship with my friend and we have travelled severl times with her and her husband. We both work (although he has been laid off several times of the last 3 years) and I still have some time left for us to go on another vacation together this year.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

torn up said:


> Am I willing to compromise? I can't see it. I am very stubborn and headstrong as was suggested. I will also tell you that this trip was a gift from my parents for helping out so much after my Mom's recent surgery. I will never get this opportunity again.
> A fully paid trip to Africa is like a dream come true.
> 
> Why is he so against this trip? Good question.
> ...


Well I guess if I had an opportunity to go to Africa like this , I too would be very excited.
Also great that your parents facilitated it as a thank you gesture.
Definitely , you are a lucky woman and this is the trip of a lifetime!

I highlighted the last paragraphs of your posts because his excuses made me chuckle.
Do you think jealousy might be playing a part in all of this?

Would you be willing to maybe reduce the time spent away from 5 weeks , lets say to 3 weeks?
Or is it that you feel you need a little break from him because the other conflicts in the marriage and issues in life are sucking the life out of you?

How is your relationship outside of this issue?


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> Well I guess if I had an opportunity to go to Africa like this , I too would be very excited.
> Also great that your parents facilitated it as a thank you gesture.
> Definitely , you are a lucky woman and this is the trip of a lifetime!
> 
> ...


These excuses made me chuckle at first too, but I'm not chuckling anymore. I cringe everytime I hear the word Africa on the TV for fear that he will erupt in a tirade again. I think he proably is extremely Jealous as would be expected, I would be too. I just wonder if he will get to the point of acceptance or if he will drive me away with his outbursts.

I'll give you an example. Saturday night around 3 in the morning, I was sleeping and all of a sudden he turned the lights on in the bedroom and ripped the blankets off me and threw them on the floor. He yelled, "if I'm up you're up too". He then proceed to start slamming doors and yelling at me. Well to say the least, that did my nights sleep in. Then an hour or so later he calmed down and HE went back to bed. I couldn't.

I just don't know how long I can keep living with this.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Five weeks is about right for a trip that takes 27 hours, visas, cost of travel, and family visit time as well as tourism time. 

It sounds like you could use a break from him. I know I could. If he's drunk all the time, then that's his issue. He will have to live with himself while you're away. Maybe he is just not looking forward to having to look after himself. 

If he wanted to take a trip with his friend, and it was for 5 weeks, I'm sure you would be fine with it. 

Just go. He agreed to it, he's a big boy. 
But make sure your documents at home, your valued possessions, and your equity in any joint holdings are locked up tight before you go. Maybe see an attorney to tidy things up before a trip like that, especially if you think there are marital issues it will push over the tipping point. (If it's not this, it will be something, sounds like he's just framing things for an altercation, in other words, picking a fight.)

I went overseas for 5 weeks last summer, my kids loved me enough to understand it was a great opportunity, and allowed me to go even though they missed me. That's what family does. A partner is family, there is no special dispensation just cause they're going to go without sex for 5 weeks. Geesh.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

I wonder if sex has anything to do with it. Funny you mentioned that because all of a sudden he seems to want it ALL the time.
He also said to me that if I go can he go off somewhere and get a hooker. A couple of times he said can I rent him a wife for 5 weeks.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

torn up said:


> These excuses made me chuckle at first too, but I'm not chuckling anymore. I cringe everytime I hear the word Africa on the TV for fear that he will erupt in a tirade again. I think he proably is extremely Jealous as would be expected, I would be too. I just wonder if he will get to the point of acceptance or if he will drive me away with his outbursts.
> 
> I'll give you an example. Saturday night around 3 in the morning, I was sleeping and all of a sudden he turned the lights on in the bedroom and ripped the blankets off me and threw them on the floor. He yelled, "if I'm up you're up too". He then proceed to start slamming doors and yelling at me. Well to say the least, that did my nights sleep in. Then an hour or so later he calmed down and HE went back to bed. I couldn't.
> 
> I just don't know how long I can keep living with this.


So in the span of two hours, you've gone from being "content and somewhat ok with some of the problems" to not knowing how long you can live with the situation...

Personally, I'd probably go on the trip. But I'd like to think I'd also deal with the real problems in your marriage, instead of just trying to sweep them under the rug. But what do I know... We're only getting one side of the story here, and I doubt it's the complete and unbiased side. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

PBear said:


> So in the span of two hours, you've gone from being "content and somewhat ok with some of the problems" to not knowing how long you can live with the situation...
> 
> Personally, I'd probably go on the trip. But I'd like to think I'd also deal with the real problems in your marriage, instead of just trying to sweep them under the rug. But what do I know... We're only getting one side of the story here, and I doubt it's the complete and unbiased side.
> 
> ...


Don't get the wrong. The "situation" is only the raving on about this trip. He's driving me crazy. Up to now we would have the rare argument about the drinking, but that's about it. Otherwise we have had a good marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

torn up said:


> I wonder if sex has anything to do with it. Funny you mentioned that because all of a sudden he seems to want it ALL the time.
> He also said to me that if I go can he go off somewhere and get a hooker. A couple of times he said can I rent him a wife for 5 weeks.


As much as I think that a once in a lifetime 5 week trip is not a big deal in a marriage, I think that if you go you are going to have major problems.

Your husband is acting out terribly. 

Your going on this trip is not equivalent to him getting a hooker or cheating while you are gone. But he's busy justifying it in his head.

He seems to be being abusive with his waking up you in 3am to yell and rant.

What do you think would calm him down other than you not going on the trip?

Is he capable of fixing his own meals, getting his own clothing ready for work, etc?

who does the housework in your home? Do you or do the both of you?


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

You are right, he is being very hurtfuly when he talks about cheating as this is the furthest think from my mind. As I have told him that I love him very much and I wouldn't want anyone else.

He is more than capable of taking care of himself. He is home before I am and starts our dinner before I get there. He does laundry and housework from time to time as well.

I was kind of hoping that I might get some suggestions on how to calm him down and get him to accept this. But as much as I am relieved to be talking about it I am no further ahead yet. 
Keep the posts coming. Any suggestions might help.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

I kinda see his point, 5 weeks apart is a big deal in a marriage, at least imo. He is coming across self-ish, passive/aggressive, insensitive and pretty crappy though. If my wife wanted to do this, i would be pissed, but I would be more open and honest about it. The fact he is talking cheating and the STD discussion leads me to think he is insecure about you hooking up while on the trip.

I agree with the other poster that stated a trip of life time should include your spouse.

No other real advice.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

torn up said:


> I wonder if sex has anything to do with it. Funny you mentioned that because all of a sudden he seems to want it ALL the time.
> He also said to me that if I go can he go off somewhere and get a hooker. A couple of times he said can I rent him a wife for 5 weeks.


This is because he feels the need to mark his territory. Like me, your husband assumes you'll be cheating for most of the time you're away. The fact that you could leave him for this long would certainly be a deal breaker for me.

I also wonder about your finances. Do you work? If so, how are you able to take so much time off? If not, do you think it's fair that he stay home and fund your joint life while you go traveling for 5 weeks? Anyway, this whole thing seems wrong. I doubt you'd be happy if he went away for over a month with his buddy's, a la "The Hangover".


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> I agree with the other poster that stated a trip of life time should include your spouse.


Exactly. Are you married or not?

I'm not really against separate travel per se. In fact my wife has gone to Hawaii with a girl friend twice (2 different friends) and to Mexico with her sister and mother. But these were week long trips, not 5 weeks in Africa with no way for him to contact you and no idea, frankly, what you're up to.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

tulsy said:


> Personally, I think it's ridiculous for a married person to take a 5 week pleasure/leisure trip without their spouse.





WorkingOnMe said:


> Like me, your husband assumes you'll be cheating for most of the time you're away. The fact that you could leave him for this long would certainly be a deal breaker for me.


I laugh when I hear these kind of responses. I'm in the military and I've deployed several times, for up to a year. *5 weeks is nothing, when you are married to someone that you plan to spend the next 50 years with!* 

I remember one woman on TAM saying her marriage would be permanently damaged if she took two weeks away from her husband. Sheesh! If anything, I think our time apart has strengthened our marriage. The only real regret I have is the time I had to spend away from my children while they were growing up, but that's another issue. 

WorkingOnMe, not every spouse is a cheater. And if a spouse is going to cheat, they will do it whether they go on a vacation or not. Married couples have to trust each other at some point - they can't live their lives as prisoners to the worst case scenario. You might stay together that way, but you will be miserable together.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Theseus said:


> I laugh when I hear these kind of responses. I'm in the military and I've deployed several times, for up to a year. *5 weeks is nothing, when you are married to someone that you plan to spend the next 50 years with!*
> 
> I remember one woman on TAM saying her marriage would be permanently damaged if she took two weeks away from her husband. Sheesh! If anything, I think our time apart has strengthened our marriage. The only real regret I have is the time I had to spend away from my children while they were growing up, but that's another issue.
> 
> WorkingOnMe, not every spouse is a cheater. And if a spouse is going to cheat, they will do it whether they go on a vacation or not. Married couples have to trust each other at some point - they can't live their lives as prisoners to the worst case scenario. You might stay together that way, but you will be miserable together.


Oh ya, deployment. lol I was in the Navy and I remember well all the "sea widows" flooding the clubs after every ship left.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

I think I would get sick of by girlfriends by the end of 5 wks. Let alone be VERY horny for hubs...just me though.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

OP, does your H have friends or family that he is close with? Just asking as if he does maybe you can tell him he can use that time to hang out and do stuff with them that maybe he has put off for awhile. 

For me I travel a lot so I would not feel right getting mad at my wife for going away on a trip. As long as it was talked to me about it first and not told to me that it was happening. I guess it comes down to trust. If your spouse is going to cheat they can do it down the street as easy as going to Africa.

Over20 I had to laugh at your post on getting sick of your gf's. I remember a friend telling me once that if you want your wife to stop seeing any of her gf's you dont like send them away together for more than 3 days.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Theseus said:


> I laugh when I hear these kind of responses. I'm in the military and I've deployed several times, for up to a year. *5 weeks is nothing, when you are married to someone that you plan to spend the next 50 years with!*
> 
> I remember one woman on TAM saying her marriage would be permanently damaged if she took two weeks away from her husband. Sheesh! If anything, I think our time apart has strengthened our marriage. The only real regret I have is the time I had to spend away from my children while they were growing up, but that's another issue.
> 
> WorkingOnMe, not every spouse is a cheater. And if a spouse is going to cheat, they will do it whether they go on a vacation or not. Married couples have to trust each other at some point - they can't live their lives as prisoners to the worst case scenario. You might stay together that way, but you will be miserable together.


Problem with this is that deployments are part of the military lifestyle. Both spouses know that going in so you have no room to complain.. And spouse who cheat while their husband or wife is over seas in some sand box defending us makes you less than **** in my book.

But she isn't going on a deployment she is going on the vaca of a lifetime...and without her husband. Makes no sense to me. Marriage is about spending time and sharing those types of moments. It's clear the OP doesn't want him to come but I'm not clear yet as to why.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> OP, does your H have friends or family that he is close with? Just asking as if he does maybe you can tell him he can use that time to hang out and do stuff with them that maybe he has put off for awhile.
> 
> For me I travel a lot so I would not feel right getting mad at my wife for going away on a trip. As long as it was talked to me about it first and not told to me that it was happening. I guess it comes down to trust. If your spouse is going to cheat they can do it down the street as easy as going to Africa.
> 
> Over20 I had to laugh at your post on getting sick of your gf's. I remember a friend telling me once that if you want your wife to stop seeing any of her gf's you dont like send them away together for more than 3 days.


You are correct ...cheating can happen any where, any time, any place..I do know that struggle.

I love my GF's but anything longer than 4 days and the fun starts to where off, and they start to get catty  and gossip about everyone, including their husbands bad habits and issues. Then all I can think about is getting home!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Problem with this is that deployments are part of the military lifestyle. Both spouses know that going in so you have no room to complain.. And spouse who cheat while their husband or wife is over seas in some sand box defending us makes you less than **** in my book.
> 
> But she isn't going on a deployment she is going on the vaca of a lifetime...and without her husband. Makes no sense to me. Marriage is about spending time and sharing those types of moments. It's clear the OP doesn't want him to come but I'm not clear yet as to why.


Very simple. Financial.

This trip is a gift with strings. Wife and GF can travel about in one hotel room or bedroom with GFs family very easily. Add a man and another hotel room and costs mount. If they have pets or need a house sitter, that is very expensive.

Maybe GF doesn't like hubby. Someone not liking a screaming, semi employed, semi alcoholic? UNTHINKABLE!

A last minute plane ticket like that can easily run to $4,000.

So asking them to easily fork over $6,000 for his feelings seems reasonable to address, the more so since he is behaving so horribly. Imagine bringing THAT on your trip of a lifetime?

He might want to just ruin it out of pique.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

JCD said:


> Very simple. Financial.
> 
> This trip is a gift with strings. Wife and GF can travel about in one hotel room or bedroom with GFs family very easily. Add a man and another hotel room and costs mount. If they have pets or need a house sitter, that is very expensive.
> 
> ...


Yeah well 6 k gets chewed up in divorce court as well.

And that's not the point anyway. My question is why would you plan at trip of lifetime without your partner not why can't you add him now

Now maybe he didn't want to go...can't say Africa is really a top destination for me either. And if he didn't want to go then is the issue that he doesn't want to be without her for 5 weeks or he is just simply controlling or what.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Yeah well 6 k gets chewed up in divorce court as well.
> 
> And that's not the point anyway. My question is why would you plan at trip of lifetime without your partner not why can't you add him now
> 
> Now maybe he didn't want to go...can't say Africa is really a top destination for me either. And if he didn't want to go then is the issue that he doesn't want to be without her for 5 weeks or he is just simply controlling or what.


Or option number 3: she was invited. He was not because the GF is HER friend, not HIS friend.

The GF is allowed to make any offer she wishes to. The wife had the responsibility to accept or reject it. In her eyes, there is nothing wrong with taking this trip.

Her husband disagrees...after he sort of agreed in a chemical stupor. 

Madam...do you feel bad at all that you sprung this on him drunk to get an agreement? That he later wants to invalidate this shouldn't be terribly surprising. You took an opportunity and want to make the most out of it. I get that. But unfortunately, by pulling it this way, you need to take the bitter with the sweet.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

JCD said:


> Or option number 3: she was invited. *He was not because the GF is HER friend, not HIS friend.*
> 
> The GF is allowed to make any offer she wishes to. The wife had the responsibility to accept or reject it. In her eyes, there is nothing wrong with taking this trip.
> 
> ...


And he is her husband which is > than her friend, and suppose to be in all things. Is the friend toxic to the relationship and causing the problem...maybe. If my friend invited me on something and said deliberately your wife can't go cause I don't like her...well for certain I wouldn't go and that very well maybe the end of that friendship as well.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

My SO and I could never go 5 weeks without physical contact.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> And he is her husband which is > than her friend, and suppose to be in all things. Is the friend toxic to the relationship and causing the problem...maybe. If my friend invited me on something and said deliberately your wife can't go cause I don't like her...well for certain I wouldn't go and that very well maybe the end of that friendship as well.


And if he said "Hey...this is a guys vacay to the woods. She really wouldn't like it and it would be a pain to bring a hair dryer and we both know she doesn't like the woods" it would be a lot less overt. Probably just the way the friend addressed it.

Besides, the point is moot. Her parents, who ALSO don't seem to like this guy, gave HER a single trip to Africa.

So if you want to point fingers, are you going to also call her parents toxic...or informed of their son in law?

I am not going to lambast him, but there are two sides here and being 'toxic' to an alcoholic who behaves like a child isn't always a bad thing.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

All I know is that if my wife said that she was going away for 5 weeks for a vacation without me .... after I asked her not to ... I would implement the 180 until she left. When she comes back, it would be to an empty house .... both figuratively and literally. No furniture and cleaned out bank accounts. 

Some might say it is the hight of selfishness for him to ask her to give up the "trip of a lifetime" but it's also extremely cruel of you to continue with your plans to go when you know this is upsetting him this way. So let me ask you, is this trip that important to you? Is it worth possibly permanently damaging your marriage?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

JCD said:


> And if he said "Hey...this is a guys vacay to the woods. She really wouldn't like it and it would be a pain to bring a hair dryer and we both know she doesn't like the woods" it would be a lot less overt. *Probably* just the way the friend addressed it.
> 
> Besides, the point is moot. Her parents, who ALSO don't *seem* to like this guy, gave HER a single trip to Africa.
> 
> ...



Well keep up the assumptions as much as you want, I asked a simple question which was why he wasn't invited. No clue why this is seemingly so personal to you and I could care less. I am making no assumptions I actually........you know....asked a question instead of assuming I know everything. The OP said that despite this trip fiasco her marriage was in good order. So my question remains

Guys trip to the woods and no hair dryer.... Lol not all women are only Hilton room service girls. My girl and I go camping all the time so ......again....... Why wouldn't she be invited?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> All I know is that if my wife said that she was going away for 5 weeks for a vacation without me .... after I asked her not to ... I would implement the 180 until she left. When she comes back, it would be to an empty house .... both figuratively and literally. No furniture and cleaned out bank accounts.
> 
> Some might say it is the hight of selfishness for him to ask her to give up the "trip of a lifetime" but it's also extremely cruel of you to continue with your plans to go when you know this is upsetting him this way. So let me ask you, is this trip that important to you? Is it worth possibly permanently damaging your marriage?


There is this cultural meme that women need to defend their independence. They are, after all, only a generation or two from what they consider something approaching bondage (though it is a curious form of bondage)

So while I am diffident to that meme, I understand their point as much as I am able.

She is taking a risk as you say. It would be very hard to turn down, even to me, who does not like Africa at all.

If she truly loved him, she wouldn't go. If he truly loved her, he'd let her.

See how that goes both ways?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Well keep up the assumptions as much as you want, I asked a simple question which was why he wasn't invited. No clue why this is seemingly so personal to you and I could care less. I am making no assumptions I actually........you know....asked a question instead of assuming I know everything. The OP said that despite this trip fiasco her marriage was in good order. So my question remains
> 
> Guys trip to the woods and no hair dryer.... Lol not all women are only Hilton room service girls. My girl and I go camping all the time so ......again....... Why wouldn't she be invited?


No assumptions needed.

Her parents bought a single ticket for her. They know she is married. So somehow, either they thought he'd be okay with this, they couldn't afford two tickets and figured he be understanding, OR...they don't like him very much and wanted to slip the needle in.

Perhaps she will tell us.

And yes, she said her marriage was 'okay' but she also stated VERY DISTINCTLY that he is frequently drunk...and laid off...for three years.

So even a glimpse between the lines says there is probably a little trouble in paradise.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

JCD said:


> No assumptions needed.
> 
> Her parents bought a single ticket for her. They know she is married. So somehow, either they thought he'd be okay with this, they couldn't afford two tickets and figured he be understanding, OR...they don't like him very much and wanted to slip the needle in.
> 
> ...



Yes single ticket .....he isn't going .....my question was why wasn't he invited originally ? Was it only because they, the parents, could afford one ticket? Can they, the couple, not afford him to come? Can he not miss work? Could be anything and you know no more about it than I which is why I asked why he couldn't go to the OP. I already understood that he can't now 

Seriously it's not that hard just can't answer if it's unreasonable to travel without him without that information. Cause maybe she is perfectly in the right to go


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Yes single ticket .....he isn't going .....my question was why wasn't he invited originally ? Was it only because they, the parents, could afford one ticket? Can they, the couple, not afford him to come? Can he not miss work? Could be anything and you know no more about it than I which is why I asked why he couldn't go to the OP. I already understood that he can't now
> 
> Seriously it's not that hard just can't answer if it's unreasonable to travel without him without that information. Cause maybe she is perfectly in the right to go


I'd like to hear the answer too, though I am suspicious.

I think it is she just wants to go alone.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

JCD said:


> If she truly loved him, she wouldn't go. If he truly loved her, he'd let her.
> 
> See how that goes both ways?


Oh I get it

I know that if I were in his shoes, there is a good chance I won't be there when she comes back.

Now if I were in her shoes, I might resent him the rest of my life ... but I wouldn't go.

My wife and I don't take separate vacations. But there was this one time my wife said that friends of hers were going to Aruba for a week and asked me how I would feel if she went with them. I said that she is an adult and can come and go as she pleases (but knowing me, I would try to stop her). However, I said that I strongly preferred that she didn't go. So the next question that came up was: "What happens if I go?" I said "Go .... and find out."


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> My wife and I don't take separate vacations. But there was this one time my wife said that friends of hers were going to Aruba for a week and asked me how I would feel if she went with them. I said that she is an adult and can come and go as she pleases (but knowing me, I would try to stop her). However, I said that I strongly preferred that she didn't go. So the next question that came up was: "What happens if I go?" I said "Go .... and find out."


That's an incredibly passive aggressive way to manipulate your wife, chain her to the house, and isolate her from her friends. 

That's probably not how it looks to you, but that's the path you are going down.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Theseus said:


> That's an incredibly passive aggressive way to manipulate your wife, chain her to the house, and isolate her from her friends.
> 
> That's probably not how it looks to you, but that's the path you are going down.


One person's 'strong marital bonds' is another person's 'strong marital bondage...without the safe word.'

This is one of those 'one size doesn't fit all' that you are usually discussing. If they are both okay with that, more power to them.

Though I agree it is passive aggressive.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

The Middleman said:


> Oh I get it
> 
> I know that if I were in his shoes, there is a good chance I won't be there when she comes back.
> 
> ...


So was this a girls only week trip then? Were none of her friends married? Why not have a couples week in Aruba? Or was that just not an option?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Here is one thing that both Wolf and Middleman don't seem to get: the benefit of alone time and venting.

I am suspicious of it too. What if she finds someone else during 'alone time'? What will her friends tell her to do about her marriage?

But if it is a strong marriage, it will be alright. If it is a weak marriage...well..I'd fear alone time too.

I am guessing this wife has a lot on her mind. And she can 'be herself' around her friend in ways she can't 'be herself' around her husband. How do I know? She obviously wants to take this trip very badly and she has to sneak up on him while drunk to get the answer she wants.

That is NOT a transparent relationship. Hubby should have been mature enough to listen to her in a non threatening manner, not playing games with blankets.

He is raising the price of honesty too high, imo.

I would allow my wife to go on a weeks vacation with the right friend (some of the drunken ones she knows are non starters...but she doesn't like them very much).

FIVE WEEKS? That is a bit much for even a pretty secure spouse to stomach. I think ANY husband would look askance at that long a period.

That being said, my wife and I have had to separate for lengthy periods of time with no oversight due to work. We have survived. Longer than 5 weeks.

We don't like it. But we survive it.

He can survive this one time too...


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP have your husband and parents had issues in the past? It just seems odd that they would give only you a ticket to go for a trip of a lifetime without him.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

JCD said:


> I would allow my wife to go on a weeks vacation with the right friend (some of the drunken ones she knows are non starters...but she doesn't like them very much).
> 
> FIVE WEEKS? That is a bit much for even a pretty secure spouse to stomach. I think ANY husband would look askance at that long a period.


:iagree:


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Oh I get it
> 
> I know that if I were in his shoes, there is a good chance I won't be there when she comes back.
> 
> ...


She tested you and although I do see your point, I don't thoroughly agree with your rigid reaction.
Being so strict for ONLY ONE week is a bit over the top, to be honest.

What if it was work-related and she HAD TO go? What would you do? 
Probably nothing and you'd end up accepting it.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> So was this a girls only week trip then? Were none of her friends married? Why not have a couples week in Aruba? Or was that just not an option?


Truth of the matter is I think she was just testing me. We've never, ever have taken separate vacations with the exception of her going away for a few weekends over the years with her 3 sisters. She knows how I feel about the subject of separate vacations and I can't figure out why she would bring it up unless it was just a test. I don't really care what other couples do in their marriage, separate vacation don't work for me.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

JCD said:


> Here is one thing that both Wolf and Middleman don't seem to get: the benefit of alone time and venting.


JCD, I do get it and understand what you are trying to say ... but the whole concept of seperate vacations doesn't sit well with me. I think a couple can go away together and still get enough time alone for blow off the necessary steam.

In this case where the OP is saying "I'm going, like it or lump it" just might be a deal breaker for me.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Theseus said:


> That's an incredibly passive aggressive way to manipulate your wife, chain her to the house, and isolate her from her friends.
> 
> That's probably not how it looks to you, but that's the path you are going down.


That passive aggressive term get thrown around here way to much; it's loosing its meaning as a result. Also, your "chaining her to the house" statement is so outlandish it invalidates your entire comment.

What if I said "I prefer you don't go" or just "I'm not OK with it" or just "No" when she asked. What would that make me then? Controlling? Let's face it, for many people here any answer other than "Sure, go and have a good time" would make me controlling, passive aggressive or isolating. Understand this: for me a separate vacation is close to a deal breaker and I'm not sure how I would react if she went on that trip after I asked her not to. I'm not trying to isolate her from her friends, I just don't want here going away to some tropical paradise without me.

Also, I was being honest with her:


She is an adult and I can't really stop her from going if she really wanted to. I can make my displeasure very known, like the OP's husband. I can make it difficult. But I can't physically stop her.
I didn't want her to go .... period. I said exactly what was on my mind.
The truth is is I really don't know how I would react if she went on that vacation without me after I asked her not to. When I said "Go and we'll find out", that was a very honest statement. For me that could have been a deal breaker and there was a good chance that I might not be there when she got back. Or I might go away myself on a something bigger and better. What I do know is that it would change my feeling towards her and the dynamics of the marriage, if I stayed. (and we've been married 30 years)
So I ask you, what would you do when your wife is asking you if she could do something that could be a deal breaker for you?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> What if it was work-related and she HAD TO go? What would you do?
> Probably nothing and you'd end up accepting it.


You are correct, business is different. I would only make an issue of it if there was some evidence of "Hanky Panky", in which case there is no telling what would happen. She doesn't take business trips, but I do ... and I can tell you that mine are no vacation.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> JCD, I do get it and understand what you are trying to say ... but the whole concept of seperate vacations doesn't sit well with me. I think a couple can go away together and still get enough time alone for blow off the necessary steam.
> 
> In this case where the OP is saying "I'm going, like it or lump it" just might be a deal breaker for me.


Here is the deal. How often is she going to have 'free trips to Africa' fall into her lap? I am still waiting for the vacation fairy to drop that into my lap. She was lucky enough to actually GET it.

So her 'attitude' is the fact that this 50 year old woman had a trip of a lifetime land in her lap. How often do you think that is going to happen to her in her twilight years? SHE HAS NO CHOICE. It is literally 'now or never.'

Imagine that your wife was offered a church tour of every single Cathedral of Europe. Paid. Single person because she won some stupid contest on a whim. Two weeks on the road with a bunch of strangers (mostly retirees from Florida)

You are perfectly valid to feel that separate vacations 'don't work for you', but if you actually LOVE your wife and want good things for her, you should at least feel a twinge at denying her this sort of 'dream'.

This guy doesn't feel it. His selfish desires are making him act like an a-hole. Instead of being happy something very nice is happening to someone he supposedly LOVES, he is sullen and working his ass off trying to ruin it for her. He is saying 'You are only allowed to be happy if *I* am also happy." What. A. TOOL.

There is room for reasonable people to disagree, but he should be SAD he is denying her something nice. 

I would hope that you love your wife enough to maybe consider a bit of bending if something this nice happened to her.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> So I ask you, what would you do when your wife is asking you if she could do something that could be a deal breaker for you?


Maybe you need to reexamine your deal breakers.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> That passive aggressive term get thrown around here way to much;


I agree it is overused on TAM. But when your exact words were: "_I said that she is an adult and can come and go as she pleases (but knowing me, I would try to stop her)._"

And that is pretty much a textbook definition of passive aggression. 





> _What if I said "I prefer you don't go" or just "I'm not OK with it" or just "No" when she asked. What would that make me then? Controlling? _


Yes, but at least then you would be open and honest about trying to control her, not PA under the table. 



> _So I ask you, what would you do when your wife is asking you if she could do something that could be a deal breaker for you?_


How about just telling her you want to discuss your concerns with it, instead of issuing black/white ultimatums?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

JCD said:


> Maybe you need to reexamine your deal breakers.


As you point out so often, everyone is different. Separate vacations are something that doesn't sit well with me and that's not going to change. *I'm not asking anything of my wife that I'm not doing myself. There is no double standard here.*

In the OP's case her husband could possibly be considered selfish (but not by me) but she is equally selfish. I get the feeling that she doesn't care how he feels about this issue, she wants this trip and is going. This isn't going to end well, even if they stay together; this marriage is going to permanently change.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> As you point out so often, everyone is different. Separate vacations are something that doesn't sit well with me and that's not going to change. *I'm not asking anything of my wife that I'm not doing myself. There is no double standard here.*
> 
> In the OP's case her husband could possibly be considered selfish (but not by me) but she is equally selfish. I get the feeling that she doesn't care how he feels about this issue, she wants this trip and is going. This isn't going to end well, even if they stay together; this marriage is going to permanently change.


Never accused you of a double standard, though I note YOU are allowed business travel and she doesn't go. One wonders if she got a new job which DID travel, how well that would sit with you.

She is selfish because she wants to accept freely given nice things from her parents and friends? God Forbid she be tempted to want to do a once in a lifetime nice thing.

She has cooked his meals, done his laundry and had sex with him for decades...and she is selfish.

Tell me...what are your thoughts on how HE is acting?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

JCD said:


> Here is one thing that both Wolf and Middleman don't seem to get: the benefit of alone time and venting.
> 
> I am suspicious of it too. What if she finds someone else during 'alone time'? What will her friends tell her to do about her marriage?
> 
> ...


Thanks is for telling me what I don't get lol. 

Seems what you don't get is that not everyone shares your opinions on the matter. If you're ok with taking trips of a lifetime without your spouse and they don't care then good for you. I didn't get married to have separate vacations......you know I actually wanted to spend time with the Mrs.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Can he come for part of the trip? Maybe fly down for 2 weeks in the middle? I don't understand why he hasn't even been considered for inclusion.

You both work, it doesn't sound like finances are a real issue, certainly he could afford the plane ticket. It sounds like you are mostly staying with friends so accommodations wouldn't cost a fortune.

Why hasn't he been included or at least invited for part of the trip? Maybe he is just feeling royally left out.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Thanks is for telling me what I don't get lol.
> 
> Seems what you don't get is that not everyone shares your opinions on the matter. If you're ok with taking trips of a lifetime without your spouse and they don't care then good for you. I didn't get married to have separate vacations......you know I actually wanted to spend time with the Mrs.


I am NOT okay with separate vacations as a matter of course. And it ALWAYS necessitates a LONG conversation.

I also care for my wife and want her happiness. These two attitudes sometimes come into conflict.

So, if she came to me with a generic "I want to go to France for a week by myself", I would say 'no'.

BUT...if an all expense paid trip to tour the Boudreaux region came up and it was POSSIBLE for her to go and it was a rare (forget once in a lifetime) opportunity...

Well...sometimes marriage means you need to take one for the team. In a case like that, I wouldn't be HAPPY for myself, but I would try to be happy for her. 

And even if I said 'no' with cogent reasons beside 'I don't wanna', I would certainly behave like an adult with some dignity, even if I was flaming mad at her and intended to divorce her as soon as her foot hit the ground back in America.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

JCD said:


> Never accused you of a double standard, though I note YOU are allowed business travel and she doesn't go. One wonders if she got a new job which DID travel, how well that would sit with you.


If she got a job that required travel then I wouldn't (and couldn't) have an issue with it. The only exception would be if I had good (evidenced) reason to believe that there may be some form of infidelity going on, then there is no telling what would happen. She has always had jobs that didn't require travel.

As far as my business travel is concerned, I do what I have to do to earn a living and I do it for her and our children. For the record, we have a strong marriage and she doesn't let me get away with any sh1t either.



JCD said:


> She is selfish because she wants to accept freely given nice things from her parents and friends? God Forbid she be tempted to want to do a once in a lifetime nice thing.
> 
> She has cooked his meals, done his laundry and had sex with him for decades...and she is selfish.


Yes, I do think that she is selfish and she should find a way to bring him along. That's how I feel.



JCD said:


> Tell me...what are your thoughts on how HE is acting?


While I see his point of view, he should stop behaving like an ass. He need to inform her know that he either doesn't want her to go or wants to go with her and he needs to find the cash to do it. If she continues with the trip, he needs to do some soul searching as to the future of their marriage. It's all a matter of wat he/she can live with, not me. I only know what I might do if I were put into his situation.

Some want to make me feel like a Neanderthal for my opinion on this matter. I just take a more traditional point of view on matters of marriage and separate vacations, GNOs/BNOs and opposite sex friends don't fit into that view. No amount of debate is going to change that. If someone on this board asks for advice, that's the point of view they are going to get from me. I think there would be a little less infidelity if more people adopted that point of view. When one gets married, they are no longer the most important person in the room.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Some want to make me feel like a Neanderthal for my opinion on this matter. I just take a more traditional point of view on matters of marriage and separate vacations, GNOs/BNOs and opposite sex friends don't fit into that view. No amount of debate is going to change that. If someone on this board asks for advice, that's the point of view they are going to get from me. I think there would be a little less infidelity if more people adopted that point of view. When one gets married, they are no longer the most important person in the room.


TM, no one is trying to change your view on this. Actually, as I said earlier, *I agree with you 99.9%* regarding this issue. 
I respect your opinion and I see where you're coming from. Sure as hell I'd act the same way.....
..... BUT at the same time I think JCD's opinion is A BIT more reasonable when he says that ONLY FOR RARE OPPORTUNITIES, one should not be as strict as in normal/random situations. 

If my parents/friend paid me a ticket to visit a place in Africa, then I'd be very grateful and thankful if my husband allowed me to go because chances like this come only ONCE in life. 
It's not something that happens on daily basis, or every weekend/month. It's not like GNOs or frequent separate vacation.
I would appreciate if my SO understood the situation enough to let me go.

On the other hand, it depends on the timeline. 5 weeks could be too much, but 1 week? 

There's gotta be some level of tolerance, especially when your partner has been faithful throughout the marriage and hasn't give you a reason to doubt in them.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

I think the OP really needs to understand where her hubby is coming from. Why is he so insecure. I also think her husband is like me and middleman, 5 week separate vacation is out of bounds. Until she understands these two things, she won't be able to have a constructive discussion or resolution to it. He is very put out by this and won't cave. The OP needs to understand this to come to a mutual agreement unless this is such an issue that she wants to risk D over it.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Seems to me that your husband set you up.
> 
> Whilst i agree that five weeks is a long time , why does he think it is ok to tell you " do what you want " and then change his mind halfway through, in addition to suddenly start issuing ultimatums ?
> 
> ...


Exactly, The husband pulled the old "Do what you want" while thinking "you better do what I want and not get this test wrong". 

Some spouses (both men and women) think that when you put a ring on, suddenly their spouse has a link into their mind and should know EVERYTHING that they want without ever communicating it. It's absurd.

I'll be honest, if my wife came up to me and ASKED me if she could go on a 5 week trip, I'd be somewhat disappointed, because the simple fact she want's to be gone for 10% of the year away from me would make me pause. Knowing my wife, her response would be trying to shorten the stay even before she asked me. But I'd state what was on my mind and my thoughts, I wouldn't take a dismissive approach and get mad after the fact because the "wrong choice" was made, even though i didn't say there was a wrong one.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I agree. If he is so torqued at this, he should sack up, find the cash, and say "I don't believe in separate vacations so I found the cash to go."

Her response after that would be telling.

It's HIS problem. He should fix it.

And frankly, this situation really smacks of a sh!t test on his wife, just like that one where the wife tried to talk her husband into an open marriage...and then pulled a 'fooled you' on him.

Whatever his reasons, his behavior is just off the charts.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> Yes, I do think that she is selfish and she should find a way to bring him along. That's how I feel.


If he wanted to go along, he should have said so when she first asked him about it. 

If he doesn't really want to go along, but just wants her to stay home and not go, then he is being selfish.

If he wants to go along, acting like an ass and waking her up in the middle of the night just to be an ass is not the kind of approach that will lead her to wanting him to come along. Talking about hiring hookers and cheating also makes him an ass, and is just going to upset her _and _make her dig her heels in instead of considering whether it might be fun if he joined them.

My SO loves scuba diving. If he got a free trip from his mother to the Great Barrier Reef for a couple weeks, followed by a couple more weeks of diving off a liveaboard in Palau, I'd be ecstatic for him. Trip of a lifetime, he lives for that. Go, have fun, show me the fish pictures when you get back. I hope he does one day get a chance to do exactly that, whether I am with him or not.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

norajane said:


> *If he wanted to go along, he should have said so when she first asked him about it.
> 
> If he doesn't really want to go along, but just wants her to stay home and not go, then he is being selfish.*
> 
> ...



Bolded is perfect.

His actions indicate that he doesn't want to go. He just wants HER not to go without him actually putting any skin in the game by SAYING this. "AIDS...Rapes...carjackings...Tarzan run amok...tsetse flies..."

Middle, I apologize for suggesting you were passive aggressive. This guy is horribly so.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

To all the people who are riding the OP about separate vacation.
Let's keep in mind that when people get drunk, they are not really THERE for their spouse. Oh, they are physically present, but they are choosing to be ABSENT, whenever they please, without asking permission first, no passport, visa or plane ticket needed. Just checking out as they like, depriving spouse of promised time together. Sure, he's on the sofa, but if she asked him to stop drinking for 5 weeks to spend time with her in "I am here with my mind as well as my body" would he agree to it? I wonder.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> ...If my parents/friend paid me a ticket to visit a place in Africa, then I'd be very grateful and thankful if my husband allowed me to go because chances like this come only ONCE in life. ...


"If my parents/friend paid me a ticket to visit a place in Africa", my very first thought would be how to get my significant other a ticket to join me. No question about it.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

tulsy said:


> "If my parents/friend paid me a ticket to visit a place in Africa", my very first thought would be how to get my significant other a ticket to join me. No question about it.


:iagree:

But life sometimes is unfair.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

tulsy said:


> "If my parents/friend paid me a ticket to visit a place in Africa", my very first thought would be how to get my significant other a ticket to join me. No question about it.


I understand your point, but if the ticket is VERY expensive, I *don't expect my friend to pay for my husband as well.*
I thank her for thinking about me to begin with. Not every friend does that.


I'd do the same, why would I pay for her husband???
I'd pay for us (me and her). Let's be honest. Call me selfish, but I don't think you'd pay for yourself, your friend and HIS wife for an alone trip with said friend.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> I understand your point, but if the ticket is VERY expensive, I *don't expect my friend to pay for my husband as well.*
> I thank her for thinking about me to begin with. Not every friend does that.
> 
> 
> ...


To be fair, HER parents are paying for the ticket. All her friend is offering is accommodations and interior travel for free.

Here is a different question: would you willingly welcome an alcoholic into your families home, particularly one who behaves as he does?

That answers why the friend gave a rather...limited offer. And maybe that answers why the parents didn't offer a ticket for two...


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Traveling with an alcoholic is embarrassing and horrible. You usually spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to replace the host's diminished stock of alcohol. Memories of staying with a host family at the Consulate in Tokyo, my husband had begged me to use my savings to buy him a ticket from Beijing so he could "see his new son" he proceeded to drink all the available beer and I had to beg the small commissary to let me have enough to replace it (it was rationed, as had to be imported) and also wanted me to spend time at the pool (ummmm, I am bleeding from childbirth and nursing a newborn, it's August in Japan, child is a redhead...I think not?!) Never again will I travel with anyone with an alcohol problem. In THEORY it all sounds great, in PRACTICE you might as well have stayed home. This is a VACATION, not a re-enactment of one of Dante's 7 Levels of H*ll. I wonder why the parents of OP are willing to pay for the trip, and why the friend invited her to spend time with her presumably intact and functional family....I am suspecting "intervention."


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Interesting to me how some are focusing on if he is/isn't an alcoholic and others focus on is a 5 week separated from spouse vacation a good thing. 

In my view both are wrong, but not mutually exclusive. You don't punish an alcoholic by running away.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> To all the people who are riding the OP about separate vacation.
> Let's keep in mind that when people get drunk, they are not really THERE for their spouse. Oh, they are physically present, but they are choosing to be ABSENT, whenever they please, without asking permission first, no passport, visa or plane ticket needed. Just checking out as they like, depriving spouse of promised time together. Sure, he's on the sofa, but if she asked him to stop drinking for 5 weeks to spend time with her in "I am here with my mind as well as my body" would he agree to it? I wonder.


Well this is still what I am waiting for...why couldn't he go. I'm hopeful that the OP will return and answer. The over the top speculation is crazy in this thread. For all we know he just doesn't want to go and so the issue isn't that it's a separate vacation, It's that he doesn't want her away for 5 weeks. So let's hope we get more information.

For my personal life I am ok with a BNO or GNO here and their. But one of my personal passions in life is travel. So not spending that with my SO would be a deal breaker. Not all are the same and that's fine. It was certainly something that was discussed before becoming exclusive with now GF.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

OP didn't like what she heard and left the building. She was hoping for the choir and got the mob instead.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> I understand your point, but if the ticket is VERY expensive, I *don't expect my friend to pay for my husband as well.*
> I thank her for thinking about me to begin with. Not every friend does that.
> 
> 
> ...


No, I wouldn't expect the friend to pay for the spouse...that's ridiculous. What I'm saying is if I got the free trip, I would be thinking how I could get my spouse to join me, regardless the cost...I would pay for it out of our household income. Anyway you slice it, it would still be a 2-for-1 trip.


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## torn up (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi All
Thanks for the replies that have been sent . I haven't left the building, I have been lurking and reading and thinking and thinking and thinking. I seems that there really is no easy answer to this. I will admit I was really hoping that most people would see things as I do and think it is ok for me to go, but you have made me realize both sides of the story have justifications for feelings that are being expressed.
Also, some of the posts really have me questioning a lot of things other than just this trip. I will admit that maybe I am acting selfishly about this. But I think that he is acting selfishly as well.
I like to think that if he were offered this opportunity that I would be upset but happy for him. My GF's husband was originally going to go on the trip but when my parents offered me to go he was happy for me and gave up going as he said that this will probably never be offered to me again. He said to me that now he is jealous but happy that I can go and knows that we will have a very good time. Why can't my husband feel the same way my friends does?

Homemaker Numero Uno hit the nail on the head about travelling with an alchoholic. It can be very embarrassing and stressful overall and you are right, I would be very concerned about taking him to my friends families homes. Also, my friend did not extend the invitation to my husband as she has seen some of his antics on previous vacations that we have taken as well as the majority of other times that we have gotten together at their home or ours. She has a feeling that he would just ruin the trip for us and I (deep down) don't disagree.
Drinking has over the years distanced both of us from both friends and family. Maybe the bigger question is that if I find him such an embarrasment, why stay together? Comfort, familiarity, financial ??????
I guess I have a lot more thinking to do.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Thanks for coming back and clarifying OP. 

So he is an embarrassment and she doesn't want him, nor do you want him to go. Yes then I would say that your problems do stem far beyond this trip. If I had a spouse that I was embarrassed to go places with I wouldn't be with them. He of course has a right to be hurt and left out as well even if it is of his own doing.

In so far as going that is personal decision for you. I can understand it both ways and maybe some time to think would do you some good. Just realize he also will have to evaluate what is right for him. He may make a strong decision to leave you or maybe even clean up is act.

In any case good luck


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

torn up said:


> Hi All
> Thanks for the replies that have been sent . I haven't left the building, I have been lurking and reading and thinking and thinking and thinking. I seems that there really is no easy answer to this. I will admit I was really hoping that most people would see things as I do and think it is ok for me to go, but you have made me realize both sides of the story have justifications for feelings that are being expressed.
> Also, some of the posts really have me questioning a lot of things other than just this trip. I will admit that maybe I am acting selfishly about this. But I think that he is acting selfishly as well.
> I like to think that if he were offered this opportunity that I would be upset but happy for him. My GF's husband was originally going to go on the trip but when my parents offered me to go he was happy for me and gave up going as he said that this will probably never be offered to me again. He said to me that now he is jealous but happy that I can go and knows that we will have a very good time. Why can't my husband feel the same way my friends does?
> ...


That is because both sides have some important truths.

On his side, he feels rejected because he wasn't tacitly invited, either by the parents or the friend. He was considered to be persona non grata.

How much this is his own fault doesn't change how he FEELS about this.

Additionally, maybe he worries about this distance. If you go away and 'can survive' without him for 5 weeks...you might decide to extend that time frame indefinitely. So he is also concerned about his marriage.

Five weeks is a LONG time for even a strong marriage and it will also be a blow financially. This is a valid concern. Few budgets can stand five weeks of vacation spending, which is VERY different from day to day spending. You, after all, will want to take advantage of this opportunity.

These are VALID concerns quite apart from his concerns of tsetse flies with HIV biting you.

So, you might try to address these concerns in a valid way to allay his concerns.

On your end, you are offered a VERY nice thing and you, unfortunately, have a graphic comparison of a mature man vs. an immature man. It is quite okay for your husband to be against this, but not the way he is acting.

And not wanting your husband's alcoholism and negativity to RUIN a once in a lifetime trip is also understandable.

Maybe you use this as a spring board into a conversation about how he appears to the outside world and to deal with his alcoholism. Something to strengthen your marriage.

But I wish you the best however you decide.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

JCD said:


> To be fair, HER parents are paying for the ticket. All her friend is offering is accommodations and interior travel for free.


Probably their parents don't like her husband and never had.
Still, this is not a good reason to cancel the trip. 
Although, I still think 5 weeks is too much. 



> Here is a different question: would you willingly welcome an alcoholic into your families home, particularly one who behaves as he does?


I know my parents WOULD NOT so that's why her parents didn't pay a ticket for him. 




> That answers why the friend gave a rather...limited offer. And maybe that answers why the parents didn't offer a ticket for two...


Exactly.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

torn up said:


> Hi All
> Thanks for the replies that have been sent . I haven't left the building, I have been lurking and reading and thinking and thinking and thinking. I seems that there really is no easy answer to this. I will admit I was really hoping that most people would see things as I do and think it is ok for me to go, but you have made me realize both sides of the story have justifications for feelings that are being expressed.
> Also, some of the posts really have me questioning a lot of things other than just this trip. I will admit that maybe I am acting selfishly about this. But I think that he is acting selfishly as well.
> I like to think that if he were offered this opportunity that I would be upset but happy for him. My GF's husband was originally going to go on the trip but when my parents offered me to go he was happy for me and gave up going as he said that this will probably never be offered to me again. He said to me that now he is jealous but happy that I can go and knows that we will have a very good time. Why can't my husband feel the same way my friends does?
> ...


OP, why did you wait so long to end things with him?
Also, was he ever sent to rehab?


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

You know what they call spouses who take separate vacations for weeks at a time?

DIVORCED!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

scatty said:


> You know what they call spouses who take separate vacations for weeks at a time?
> 
> DIVORCED!


So...I am by force of work frequently away from my spouse for weeks at a time. I have long weekends off and free trips to exotic places.

I am still married. 

Other posters have said they have had current spouses on vacations as well. 

How does this fit into your theories?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

JCD said:


> So...I am by force of work frequently away from my spouse for weeks at a time. I have long weekends off and free trips to exotic places.
> 
> I am still married.
> 
> ...


:iagree:
Long weekends are one thing.
Five weeks is going to be a real test.
Tough one.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I agree with those that have said you are asking the wrong question here and focussing on the wrong problem. You have a serious problem with your husband. If you didn't this whole issue would be viewed in a different light.

Your husband is an alcoholic and the two of you have a troubled (to say the least) relationship. You have a chance to visit South Africa and someone is helping you and you took it (although 5 weeks in South Africa for me is rather long - 3 days in Cape Town, 2 days in Durban, 5 days touring and Natal, 1 day in Pretoria, never go to J'burg and you are done). I think you also see it as a chance to be away from him.

Now if the two of you had a better relationship, then the answer to your question would be yes you are wrong to go on this trip without him for this long.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> I agree with those that have said you are asking the wrong question here and focussing on the wrong problem. You have a serious problem with your husband. If you didn't this whole issue would be viewed in a different light.
> 
> Your husband is an alcoholic and the two of you have a troubled (to say the least) relationship. You have a chance to visit South Africa and someone is helping you and you took it (although 5 weeks in South Africa for me is rather long - 3 days in Cape Town, 2 days in Durban, 5 days touring and Natal, 1 day in Pretoria, never go to J'burg and you are done). I think you also see it as a chance to be away from him.
> 
> ...


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

so he being an alcoholic = she treats the marriage as a sham? don't follow manfrom....


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

JCD said:


> manfromlamancha said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with those that have said you are asking the wrong question here and focussing on the wrong problem. You have a serious problem with your husband. If you didn't this whole issue would be viewed in a different light.
> ...


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> Now if the two of you had a better relationship, then the answer to your question would be yes you are wrong to go on this trip without him for this long.


I would pose the exact opposite. That if they had a good, strong relationship, traveling alone, even on a trip this long, wouldn't be nearly as big an issue. I wouldn't begrudge my SO a trip of a lifetime. I'd be happy for him, and yes, I can certainly manage on my own without him for 5 weeks without a worry.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> so he being an alcoholic = she treats the marriage as a sham? don't follow manfrom....


So instead of worrying about seeing South Africa for the first time she should be asking:


What is making my husband drink and how do we solve the alcoholism problem ?
Am I getting everything I need/want from this relationship ? Is my husband ?
What do I need to do to either make things better or dissolve this relationship ?
And then finally, depending on the answers to the other questions, is it worth my while going on this trip given that I have an alcoholic husband & a troubled marriage AND I have decided to try and make things better OR I have decided to call it a day ?

Simply asking if it is wrong to travel without him is the very last question that needs to be answered given the burning deck they are standing on.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

norajane said:


> I would pose the exact opposite. That if they had a good, strong relationship, traveling alone, even on a trip this long, wouldn't be nearly as big an issue. I wouldn't begrudge my SO a trip of a lifetime. I'd be happy for him, and yes, I can certainly manage on my own without him for 5 weeks without a worry.


The point I was making here is that if they had a strong relationship then she would see that perhaps 5 weeks is a bit too long given that it is unnecessary given the location. If she were off to explore Australia and the far East then yes, 5 weeks is right. If she is going to South Africa and she loves him as he loves her then going off for a couple of weeks would be enough and she would see this. It sounds like she is trying to get away from him (understandably to some degree).


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> The point I was making here is that if they had a strong relationship then she would see that perhaps 5 weeks is a bit too long given that it is unnecessary given the location. If she were off to explore Australia and the far East then yes, 5 weeks is right. If she is going to South Africa and she loves him as he loves her then going off for a couple of weeks would be enough and she would see this. It sounds like she is trying to get away from him (understandably to some degree).


:iagree:
If he does not want help for his problem and not even trying, it is understandable if she wants out of the m.
It will only get worse if not treated and will result in his death more than likely.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

The basis of all marriage is respect. A spouse should respect the other. She should respect his desire she doesn't go. He should respect how good an opportunity this is for her.

However...one thing very much ignored on TAM is being WORTHY of respect. Can anyone say that this man is acting in such a manner? I can't.

So I would outline it something like this to him:

"I very much want to go on this trip. It is a wonderful opportunity, it is costing us almost nothing, and I will never be offered something like this again."

"Your feelings are hurt because you know our marriage is weak and you were possibly excluded by my parents and my friend. Now...you can throw this in their faces about how they were big meanies. Or you can think about your antics with alcohol which causes me to miss a nights sleep because you are acting like a maniac!"

"I know you are sorry for behaving like that. But 'sorry' isn't good enough anymore. You need to NOT DO THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. I love you and not just because you have a job. You are a great guy. When you have a bottle in your pocket, you are NOT a great guy. I want that great guy back."

"I am not looking for some strange men. I want to see elephants and hyenas and tribesmen. I'll get my vaccines and I'll be careful. I will stay escorted. XXXX's husband is okay with her going."

"When I get home, I want to work on our marriage. This starts by cutting back on the drinking. I will Skype you every day that you are available. We can even set up a time."

"I don't LIKE doing this without your approval, but you aren't even asking me to cut back on the time. ANY moment away from you is too much. Well...sitting in your shadow when you are drunk is just as bad for our marriage as me being away at this point."

"Let's work through this together. Because if you don't start stepping up, you MIGHT lose me. But I don't want that either."

Maybe this works, Maybe it doesn't. It's a start to a conversation which is LONG overdue.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

He doesn't respect himself so it's hard for her to respect him.
He doesn't impose and demand respect...
He's the first to ignore this part...and I'm sure, if she respected him she would think twice about going to that trip.

At this point, no, he's not worthy of respect!


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