# Tech experts - need up to date evidence collecting advice



## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

Firstly - Have been reading extensively, particularly the evidence collecting thread. Have taken a lot of it on board, however, the advice from many years ago applies to older technology. 

Advice here always seems to be “file for divorce!” as soon as a spouse locks everything. I’m not doing anything until I have concrete evidence, so any responses indicating instant divorce will be ignored. Kids, property and business are involved, so no hasty decisions. I’m here purely for evidence gathering suggestions. I have tried the subtle talking approach to work out what is going on and got nowhere, so I’m now ‘mouth shut, eyes open’…and will make plans according to what is found. 

SO keeps iphone always on person, always locked, two factor authenticated. Only puts it down to sleep or shower, I think it has a touch ID too? SO spends a lot of time on phone, always turned away from me or when I’m further away. I can never see screen.

Only other source of info is a mac mini - again, always locked.

An iPad is kept unlocked and is squeaky clean - only work email, no socials - which I suspect is to throw me off the scent. 

I suspect EA or inappropriate online behaviour, as the only suspicious activity is on electronics. I can track SO’s location via findmyphone connected to children’s devices (not mine), so haven’t seen any evidence of strange/unexplained locations. 

Problems. 
Can’t use a hardware keylogger as mac mini keyboard USB port faces user and is obvious! No idea which software keyloggers are legit and would need one to be sent via email (no idea how) 
Can’t unlock computer or phone to add keylogger or spyware. 
VAR is useless as SO never calls anyone, always emails/texts/messages
No access to personal emails, internet history etc

Access I do have 
Computer access all through day, but don’t have password
Apple ID credentials 
Could grab phone at night, but locked…so can’t achieve much.

Am I doomed to be kept in the dark? Is there anything I can do that I haven’t thought of? I do have a few other ideas in my head, but would be curious to know how to find out info in 2022 without a PI.

Would a PI even be useful for tech stuff? 

Feel free to DM if you don’t wish to post here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What location do you think he's at when he's doing the things you suspect him of doing?


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> What location do you think he's at when he's doing the things you suspect him of doing?


At home, sometimes in front of me (screen always facing where I can’t see it) or when I’m in a different room or out of view. Wouldn’t be possible at work, due to nature of work. Looks like he’s sending chat messages a lot, heaps of typing on phone that seems to be ‘secret’. If I move closer when he’s on the phone, I can tell he’s closed an app or browser. 

Using phone in living room (in fave chair) or on computer in communal living room when I’m not there. Late at night in bed when I’m asleep & he moves to another room. We do sometimes sleep separately as he’s a bad sleeper.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

graciegracie said:


> Firstly - Have been reading extensively, particularly the evidence collecting thread. Have taken a lot of it on board, however, the advice from many years ago applies to older technology.
> 
> Advice here always seems to be “file for divorce!” as soon as a spouse locks everything. I’m not doing anything until I have concrete evidence, so any responses indicating instant divorce will be ignored. Kids, property and business are involved, so no hasty decisions. I’m here purely for evidence gathering suggestions. I have tried the subtle talking approach to work out what is going on and got nowhere, so I’m now ‘mouth shut, eyes open’…and will make plans according to what is found.
> 
> ...


Not all physical affairs involve sneaking away, especially at first. The phone thing is very suspicious. You are right to put your antenna up and pay attention.

Does he work in an office with a lot of females in close quarters? Does he go to the gym and work out? Any hobbies where there might be any females involved? As i found out, it can be carried out right under your nose... until that becomes not enough and more time is needed away. Then the excuses and 'emergencies' start happening with work and friends and there are a lot of meetings, overtime and friends who are in desperate need of help and company. 

What does his work and extracurricular activity look like right now?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The one thing I can think of are some spy cameras that might be able to see his screen depending on where he is. Maybe in the room where he sleeps as well. If you do this, make sure they also pickup sound.

You also need to check the laws in your state as you don't want to get in trouble legally.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> Not all physical affairs involve sneaking away, especially at first. The phone thing is very suspicious. You are right to put your antenna up and pay attention.
> 
> Does he work in an office with a lot of females in close quarters? Does he go to the gym and work out? Any hobbies where there might be any females involved? As i found out, it can be carried out right under your nose... until that becomes not enough and more time is needed away. Then the excuses and 'emergencies' start happening with work and friends and there are a lot of meetings, overtime and friends who are in desperate need of help and company.
> 
> What does his work and extracurricular activity look like right now?


Female dominated workplace - but without giving away too much info, he’s always infront of many clients (male and female) all at once. It’s not a typical office job as such. Anything suspect would get back to me very quick (and potentially have him fired). I have no reason to suspect foul play there, but I could be wrong? Always home on time, never any red flags about whereabouts (phone and watch location are visible, always). The only thing I may be missing, isif phone and watch were left behind?

Has home gym. Plays sport once a week, but having tracked that too, can’t see that being lied about as I know teammates and it’s not an excuse to get out of the house.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

graciegracie said:


> Female dominated workplace - but without giving away too much info, he’s always infront of many clients (male and female) all at once. It’s not a typical office job as such. Anything suspect would get back to me very quick (and potentially have him fired). I have no reason to suspect foul play there, but I could be wrong? Always home on time, never any red flags about whereabouts (phone and watch location are visible, always). The only thing I may be missing, isif phone and watch were left behind?
> 
> Has home gym. Plays sport once a week, but having tracked that too, can’t see that being lied about as I know teammates and it’s not an excuse to get out of the house.


Ok well doesn't seem to be too much going on there... I'm sure you'll be paying close attention regardless if that starts to change.

Pretty hard to get info from a phone unless you have access to it, which he seems very paranoid with so that's probably not going to happen. You can do one of those nanny cams somewhere and try to get a peek at what he is texting on the computer, phone, or tablet. Maybe he doesn't talk to the person, but would he talk about this with one of his friends? Perhaps a VAR would be helpful in that kind of situation, in a vehicle. 

Your sex life normal as ever?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Do you think maybe he has a porn habit and is trying to hide that from you? Just a thought.
I second using cameras positioned to capture his PIN/Password being typed, and of course any screen/audio.

Do you have access to the phone records for his phone (like are you on the plan?). Try to look at your phone bill for #'s he calls, number of texts, etc..


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

I am leaning towards a nanny cam, have a few ideas of what I might be able to do. 

He does use porn, I wouldn’t say in an obsessive way that I’ve noticed - I’m not totally against that and he knows I’m not prudish (and am an occasional user myself). It’s not likely to be worth being so secretive about, as I wouldn’t kick him out over porn. 

Sex life is the same. Although he seems more keen than usual. Might be reading too much into that?

I don’t see the phone plan. It goes to his emails….(here we go again).

I’m leaning towards EA or, at the very least, an inappropriate friendship that he’s scared of me finding out about. He’s not at all into confrontation, so it may well be a storm in a teacup. Or, I could find something a lot worse….


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

graciegracie said:


> I am leaning towards a nanny cam, have a few ideas of what I might be able to do.
> 
> He does use porn, I wouldn’t say in an obsessive way that I’ve noticed - I’m not totally against that and he knows I’m not prudish (and am an occasional user myself). It’s not likely to be worth being so secretive about, as I wouldn’t kick him out over porn.
> 
> ...


For the phone bill, can you go to a local phone company store and ask if you can get a hard-copy of last months bill?
Tell them the online one was deleted by accident.... MAYBE that will work (but if HE is primary on the account, you may need to know HIS pin there also...)


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

I was reading a story in here somewhere, the person caught their spouse by putting one of those WiFi website and activity trackers on their router. Mostly used to see what kids are doing… and you can track what’s happening on the WiFi network. Maybe that’s an option, though you’ll have to figure out how to install it secretively.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

QuietRiot said:


> I was reading a story in here somewhere, the person caught their spouse by putting one of those WiFi website and activity trackers on their router. Mostly used to see what kids are doing… and you can track what’s happening on the WiFi network. Maybe that’s an option, though you’ll have to figure out how to install it secretively.


That can work. I used one a few years ago to get his computer password. Then, once on his computer I installed a keystroke tracker that sent all the data to a website where I could get the data.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

Soooo….interestingly, he changed his phone to a different provider. It was so we could get rid of landline and by having 2 providers, meant we have coverage if there is a network outage (common issue here). 

Now I think about it, it’s a bit sus. I didn’t even question it. 

I am terribly tech unsavvy. He used to be an IT technician. :/


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> That can work. I used one a few years ago to get his computer password. Then, once on his computer I installed a keystroke tracker that sent all the data to a website where I could get the data.


Would like to do this, but our router is where everyone can see it. And he set up and configured our wireless home connection. If I even tried to tamper with it, it would be very obvious.

I’m feeling very dumb here.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

What does he say when you ask him why he is so secretive? if you ask him if you can be open with each others electrical devices?


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

You could go old school. Disguise yourself as a plant or a bush, try to follow him around and get behind him when he's on his phone. 

Just make sure to first tell him you bought a new plant or bush, show him your disguise without you in it, and then tell him like how a lot of women do, you might be moving it around until you find the perfect spot for it. So he'll be none the wiser.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> What does he say when you ask him why he is so secretive? if you ask him if you can be open with each others electrical devices?


I asked and get fobbed off for various reasons why things are locked. Usually about kids not seeing stuff or messing up his settings. I once took his phone as I was so sick of the secrecy (this isn’t new) and he went off his dial about it (I couldn’t see anything). 

I haven’t asked again.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

So I very gently asked again about his over-the-top cyber security and was fobbed off again with excuses about work needing everything locked instantly (hmm, I didn’t mention that the computer in question never even goes to work!!). I didn’t press the point, or demand he hand over his devices or passwords. That’s not for today. Could see his relief when I said I didn’t expect him to share everything with me….(I wanted to tear him to shreds).

Kept my cool and am biding my time so he doesn’t delete everything that may be evidence. I hate snooping, but am not going to get clarity on the matter from him. Have a few ideas on how I may be able to get an idea of what’s going on.…

If I check things out and can’t find any evidence, then I come forward and suggest it’s time to be open with passwords and only hide things that kids don’t need to see. If I find inappropriate ‘secret’ content, then it’s time to reconsider this relationship. One day at a time…


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

Yeah, a nanny cam that looks directly to a place he normally sits is your best bet.

Or, a simple conversation that starts wtih, "Listen, we both know you're doing something I won't like with that phone. The only difference is, you know exactly what it is. This doesn't end well if I figure it out without you telling me and we work on this together..."


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

graciegracie said:


> So I very gently asked again about his over-the-top cyber security and was fobbed off again with excuses about work needing everything locked instantly (hmm, I didn’t mention that the computer in question never even goes to work!!). I didn’t press the point, or demand he hand over his devices or passwords. That’s not for today. Could see his relief when I said I didn’t expect him to share everything with me….(I wanted to tear him to shreds).
> 
> Kept my cool and am biding my time so he doesn’t delete everything that may be evidence. I hate snooping, but am not going to get clarity on the matter from him. Have a few ideas on how I may be able to get an idea of what’s going on.…
> 
> If I check things out and can’t find any evidence, then I come forward and suggest it’s time to be open with passwords and only hide things that kids don’t need to see. If I find inappropriate ‘secret’ content, then it’s time to reconsider this relationship. One day at a time…


He is now on _high alert._
He knows he is being shady and you are _on to him._
He may now go into the loo to get on with his smick.

Cease and desist being visibly suspicious.
Let him become comfortable again....if possible!

The fact that he continues this behavior (under your watch and disapproval) shows it is compulsive and important to him.
I sense he is a clever Yowie, in mens' clothing.

Let me think on this....



_Prince Robbie-_


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> He is now on _high alert._
> He knows he is being shady and you are _on to him._
> He may now go into the loo to do get on with his smick.
> 
> ...


I think you are correct. I will pretend the conversation never happened and be sweet as pie for next few days. Make him relaxed. 

Methinks cracking the computer will lead to a trove of info that will uncover what’s going on. If I can work out PW, reckon I might need to investigate for a while to work it out. Possibly months. Or he might possibly be more stupid than I thought and have it all very easy to find. 

On a mission, I don’t give up easily. 

I’ve tried the nice “let’s talk about this” approach - it doesn’t work. He turns it around to make me the badguy everytime for not trusting him. 

I could just ditch him, I know. But there is a lot at stake here, it doesn’t just impact me…so I need to be sure.

Going a bit stir crazy.…!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

graciegracie said:


> I think you are correct. I will pretend the conversation never happened and be sweet as pie for next few days. Make him relaxed.
> 
> Methinks cracking the computer will lead to a trove of info that will uncover what’s going on. If I can work out PW, reckon I might need to investigate for a while to work it out. Possibly months. Or he might possibly be more stupid than I thought and have it all very easy to find.
> 
> ...


I get the stir-crazy bit...

With you, the _Covid 19 lockdown_ restrictions, with some of us, way, way, up North, it is this winter we are _now_ experiencing.

Some of us have the four seasons.

In winter, if not the snow and ice, it is the normal cold that gives us our hibernating Cabin Fever.

You need a secure place to hide your camera; inside a book, or some spot he would not normally check out.

It is the passwords that need finding.

Those initial keystrokes.

Once captured on video, slow motion playing would certainly help.

You would need to charge (pay for) these items on a credit card he cannot see and have the items mailed to some other location if he were to intercept the mail.

I am sure you folks also are having supply chain issues. This makes it harder to control the process of buying and receiving in a timely, and ordered manner.

Here are some possibilities for cameras.









Best Hidden Cameras In 2022 [Buying Guide] – Gear Hungry


Have you decided it's time to invest in a spy camera either for inside or outside of your home? Check out our best hidden cameras guide!



www.gearhungry.com


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

A couple times you mentioned that if he was doing something that things would "get back to you". Remember, you might be cool with his friends, but they are HIS friends and probably won't rat him out.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Sometimes the simplest solution is the most elegant.

Say honey, I've been a little insecure lately and worried about some things and I'd like to see your phone to ease my mind. If he says no, you have your answer. If my wife asked to see my phone I'd hand it over to her no problem. But she has my pin anyways so I don't care. People having phones on lock-down from their partner is a HUGE RED FLAG.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

A hidden / small cam to either see what he is looking at on phone or to see him put his computer password in is likely your best bet.

Stop false confronting, it will only make him be more careful to hide his actions (if something is actually happening). You've done this multiple times already and it is not getting you anywhere - don't do it again.

Trust your gut, most of the time, gut feelings are correct.


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## recovering2018 (Sep 9, 2021)

Any chance you could get him drunk and grab his finger to unlock the phone after he passes out?

I then installed an app on my PC called Imazing, connected the phone via USB and authorized the PC connection on the phone. Imazing now runs a backup in the middle of the night over the house wifi. I didn't have to install an app on the iPhone and it leaves no notification. You can browse through the backups on the PC, and while it won't give you everything, I do get imessage/chat, pictures, phone logs, Safari history, Apps list and file cache/remnants from many of the apps. I'll add that the backup jobs have been reliable and survived an iphone/icloud password change.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Have you looked for evidence in other places? Such as papers he takes notes on? 

I found a lot of stuff on paper notes at his desk; in his car (search even the spare wheel well; his dresser; his clothing pockets. I found a lot in his trash can as well.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

I dont think anyone should do this. I am just typing random thoughts in my head. 😀

Friday or Saturday night at the bar with lots of liquor and beer. Come home and take some nighttime pain relief to avoid the morning headache. While he sits in his recliner, his very eager wife goes down on him and really takes her time make sure he is deep asleep for the night

I was working with some JB Weld epoxy putty the other day. Great stuff that can be purchased at any hardware store. But I broke off a chunk and rolled it around until it was very smooth. I lightly pressed my thumb into it until it made an indentation and noticed it made a full 3d impression model of my fingerprint, very cool! The stuff also doesn't shrink and hardens like steel within an hour..... I bet if I took that mold of my fingerprint, put a very very thin coat of something slick like ky jelly or olive oil, just thin enough to keep something from sticking. I could fill the impression with elmers glue or even blue rtv gasket maker that can be purchased from any autoparts store. Let me tell ya, blue rtv gasket maker feels just like a rubber dildo or human skin when dry, very cool stuff! But when the glue or rtv sealant is dry and you pull it from the mold. I bet it would really resemble a real human finger 

Ohh, I was browsing online today and see that they now have software you can buy and install on phones that is undetectable. It records text messages, social media activity, phone records, photos, gps location, etc. It can even use the microphone to record surroundings as well as take pictures.... what cool technology!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Ohh, I was browsing online today and see that they now have software you can buy and install on phones that is undetectable. It records text messages, social media activity, phone records, photos, gps location, etc. It can even use the microphone to record surroundings as well as take pictures.... what cool technology!


The ones I know about require that the a person have access to the phone to install the software.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

Al_Bundy said:


> A couple times you mentioned that if he was doing something that things would "get back to you". Remember, you might be cool with his friends, but they are HIS friends and probably won't rat him out.


Ahh, but in the setting he works, his colleagues would rat him out. 

I’ll still be watching…..

And yes, playing it cool.

I’m not leaving someone who just won’t share passwords. Need something a bit more concrete.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If you suspect an affair, instead of breaking the law and invading his privacy, there are at least a couple of things you can do in real life.

One is make your presence known at his work. Say for example he's got some woman up there that he's been telling his marriage is bad and there's something wrong with you and that's why he's getting attached or going to cheat. By showing up at his work and bringing him a surprise lunch or sending him flowers or going up there and taking him to lunch and always showing up at company parties such as Christmas parties, you can do a whole lot to bust up anything that might be going on. You might even get some gossip in a party setting.

If there's someone at work or elsewhere that he spends a lot of time talking to, you can invite them over for dinner. See how they act around each other.

You can just start demanding more time from him to do fun things, go places, take vacations and do hobbies. All these things send a message to anyone who might be flirting with him that your marriage is solid and that he might just be a liar if he's implying otherwise. Or if they're just flattering and let's say it's just all one way but they're flirting, it certainly can make them give up and pick on somebody else.

Throw him a surprise birthday party and call the office receptionist and ask her to covertly invite everyone to attend. You can quickly find out if something's going on if you get the guilty parties around you and can watch their actions. 

Keep a high wife profile. Spend more time with him. Anyone questionable, bring them into the fold so you can keep an eye on them and get a feel for what's up.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> I get the stir-crazy bit...
> 
> With you, the _Covid 19 lockdown_ restrictions, with some of us, way, way, up North, it is this winter we are _now_ experiencing.
> 
> ...


I’m on it. _wink_ Have own CC, work from home & collect mail. I’m in a position to do this thoroughly. 

If I find more clues, might just turn up at work one day.…or get enough info to trip up any plans. He rarely socialises (neither do I) so his movements are fairly easy to detect. Or should be. 

I know I should just ask for PW, but he’s never going to give them out. Or, he’d only give them out after deleting anything that he feels the need to protect. 

He got a password to a utilities account for me the other day. When doing that, saw a glimpse massive list of saved passwords in a keychain. That and the trash bin will be useful, I feel.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

graciegracie said:


> I asked and get fobbed off for various reasons why things are locked. Usually about kids not seeing stuff or messing up his settings. I once took his phone as I was so sick of the secrecy (this isn’t new) and he went off his dial about it (I couldn’t see anything).
> 
> I haven’t asked again.


Has he always been like this?


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

You are going to get caught using a spy camera. They are not as discreet as you may think. He is going to notice a camera in his own house. 

Those little cameras require some kind of battery source.... They are great for monitoring a babysitter or someone watching your house.

I think what I wrote earlier would be your best bet. He seems to be clearly hiding something that is making you feel uneasy. But I feel the use of a spy camera will get you busted.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

recovering2018 said:


> Any chance you could get him drunk and grab his finger to unlock the phone after he passes out?
> 
> I then installed an app on my PC called Imazing, connected the phone via USB and authorized the PC connection on the phone. Imazing now runs a backup in the middle of the night over the house wifi. I didn't have to install an app on the iPhone and it leaves no notification. You can browse through the backups on the PC, and while it won't give you everything, I do get imessage/chat, pictures, phone logs, Safari history, Apps list and file cache/remnants from many of the apps. I'll add that the backup jobs have been reliable and survived an iphone/icloud password change.


Tell me more about this. I need to unlock phone to install, yes? 

If it looks like a possibility, hmm….let’s stay in and have drinks honey


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> You are going to get caught using a spy camera. They are not as discreet as you may think. He is going to notice a camera in his own house.
> 
> Those little cameras require some kind of battery source.... They are great for monitoring a babysitter or someone watching your house.
> 
> I think what I wrote earlier would be your best bet. He seems to be clearly hiding something that is making you feel uneasy. But I feel the use of a spy camera will get you busted.


I know where I can plant them discreetly. If I get busted - I will wear that. Things are obviously ****e, or I wouldn’t do this.


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## recovering2018 (Sep 9, 2021)

graciegracie said:


> Tell me more about this. I need to unlock phone to install, yes?
> 
> If it looks like a possibility, hmm….let’s stay in and have drinks honey


I just have to warn you that this could be against the law where you live. Privacy laws vary.

I did not have to install anything on the iPhone, but it did need to be unlocked.

I installed the iMazing app that morning so as to minimize the time window I needed with the phone. When I got the unlocked phone, I launched iMazing and connected the phone via USB cable. The iphone put up a prompt asking if it was okay to trust the PC. I clicked yes. The backup then ran... it took about 15 minutes, this was on a 64GB iphone. I imagine it could take 30-45 minutes on a full larger capacity iphone. After it completed, I had the option of scheduling daily wifi backups. I think the default was to run them at 3am which was perfect. They've been running reliably ever since. There is no notification on the phone.

Now, I'm not a regular user of an iPhone, but I can tell you that somewhere in the iPhone, it will maintain a listed of trusted computers. If your wayward is ultra-paranoid, he could regularly check that setting in his phone and figure out that the computer became trusted on a certain date (Most normal people don't check this often). I don't know how he'd react, so proceed with caution, or don't do this if he could become violent. I also changed the name of the PC to resemble the name of the owner to give it some camouflage.

If you have a friend with an iPhone or access to an old one that you can unlock, the best thing is to do a dress rehearsal with that phone first. Then you'll work out most of the potential kinks ahead of time and understand how it works.

I think iMazing has a free trial, long enough to verify that it works before you buy.


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## recovering2018 (Sep 9, 2021)

One other thought. Have you noticed if he ever uses dictation (the little microphone instead of typing) on his iPhone? I use it less when near people, but use it frequently when alone. It would be far simpler to plant VARs in his car and near his favorite spot at home, and make a point of not being around.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

recovering2018 said:


> One other thought. Have you noticed if he ever uses dictation (the little microphone instead of typing) on his iPhone? I use it less when near people, but use it frequently when alone. It would be far simpler to plant VARs in his car and near his favorite spot at home, and make a point of not being around.


You have just hit on a pertinent point. He may well be texting via voice to text in car. I never thought of this! VAR goes on shopping list.

Someone asked earlier if he’s always been like this. Since the advent of smartphones, yes. It was around that time we stopped using a shared home computer too, once we each got our own for work.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Are you posting on TAM using a PC/laptop, tablet, or smartphone?

I have a specific reason for asking.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you suspect an affair, instead of breaking the law and invading his privacy, there are at least a couple of things you can do in real life.
> 
> One is make your presence known at his work. Say for example he's got some woman up there that he's been telling his marriage is bad and there's something wrong with you and that's why he's getting attached or going to cheat. By showing up at his work and bringing him a surprise lunch or sending him flowers or going up there and taking him to lunch and always showing up at company parties such as Christmas parties, you can do a whole lot to bust up anything that might be going on. You might even get some gossip in a party setting.
> 
> ...


Stop being reasonable and making sense.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

GusPolinski said:


> Are you posting on TAM using a PC/laptop, tablet, or smartphone?
> 
> I have a specific reason for asking.


Tablet. Not connected to home internet.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

harperlee said:


> Stop being reasonable and making sense.


I’ve tried being reasonable. Didn’t work.

Besides, I’m 40 odd miles from his workplace. Can’t just drop in. It’s a large office in the middle of nowhere, no shops etc. There’s no reason for me to be there.

I don’t suspect a PA. More like EA, sexting, inappropriate online activity.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

graciegracie said:


> Tablet. Not connected to home internet.


Nice.

Check the DNS settings on your tablet — are the IP addresses associated with your carrier or are they OpenDNS, Cloudflare, etc?


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

graciegracie said:


> I don’t suspect a PA. More like EA, sexting, inappropriate online activity.


Welp, that would be enough for me. Take a deep breath and be still a minute. 
You want to tie yourself into knots when you already know.
Great info gathering post, I wish we had forums when I was an undergrad. We had to interview people; those were the days.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

I have given you excellent advice with no response. I wonder if this thread is even real.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

GusPolinski said:


> Nice.
> 
> Check the DNS settings on your tablet — are the IP addresses associated with your carrier or are they OpenDNS, Cloudflare, etc?


My data is only for this device & I have bluetooth and hotspotting disabled. 
I think I know where you going with this.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I have given you excellent advice with no response. I wonder if this thread is even real.


Sorry, missed replying. I like what you said, just not sure I can do it.…ETA. I don’t drink. lol. Buuuuut. Maybe I can pour him a drink or two, know what I’m saying? 

PS. Oh, this is real. Very real.


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## Hans68 (Dec 3, 2016)

I feel for you. I went down this detective rabbit hole years ago....ended in divorce.
As you said, a few years ago you could use iCloud back ups and programs to read them, as far as I know that's finished.
I agree with the post that stated that if you are genuinely concerned about your marriage and then ask your partner to help by sharing their online activity, refusal would be a huge warning. 
Also stop searching/questioning half heartedly. As soon as they become suspicious your job becomes immeasurably more difficult.
One ray of hope is that they will eventually make a mistake, if you can handle the wait and the suspicion, then your vigilance and silence will usually pay off. 
You are obviously heavily invested in this relationship but can I ask, is there love on both sides? If not the rest is not really important.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

OP is asking for (and receiving) advice on how to commit a federal crime. Some responders have even described how they’ve committed the same crime with instructions. 

Flame me, but it’s true.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Married-Man said:


> OP is asking for (and receiving) advice on how to commit a federal crime. Some responders have even described how they’ve committed the same crime with instructions.
> 
> Flame me, but it’s true.


Giving advice on a forum is not a crime.... The only way it could be a crime is if she actually did something and it was proven.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

I didn’t say it was  just observed that op appears to be soliciting advice on how to commit one. And interestingly, some of the responders have admitted to and described how they’ve committed the same crime op is seeking advice on how to commit.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Married-Man said:


> I didn’t say it was  just observed that op appears to be soliciting advice on how to commit one. And interestingly, some of the responders have admitted to and described how they’ve committed the same crime op is seeking advice on how to commit.


I gotcha now 👌 lol... Well, light is faster than sound and explains why some people appear bright until you hear them speak 🤔


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

Yep… Feel bad for anyone that’s in a position where they feel tempted to or anxious enough for consider illegally spying on someone. Sad. Please don’t violate privacy laws OP (or anyone else).


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## recovering2018 (Sep 9, 2021)

It would also be helpful if the know-it-alls on this forum didn't jump to conclusions about laws being broken. For example, if in my previous post on how to back up the iPhone, I did this on my minor child's phone that I own and pay for, I'm not breaking the law in my jurisdiction, and would probably not be in most.

OTOH, if we're discussing VARs, they are almost always illegal except when used in public places (unless disclosed to the parties first). But they've been discussed on this forum for as long as I can remember.

It's pretty much illegal to spy on any adult regardless of marital status unless you already have free access to the device or they have no expectation of privacy. So I think the administrators can shoot these topics down if they see fit.


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## graciegracie (12 mo ago)

Married-Man said:


> Yep… Feel bad for anyone that’s in a position where they feel tempted to or anxious enough for consider illegally spying on someone. Sad. Please don’t violate privacy laws OP (or anyone else).


I have read advice but done nothing, thanks for your concern. Having said that, my observation powers are pretty good and I think the info I seek can be uncovered without commiting any crimes. 

As for my anxiety, well…yes it’s up there as I lost someone close to me with terminal illness recently. My blinkers had been on for the past 6 months with all that was going on. I think, given enough rope, if SO is up to anything untoward, he’ll hang himself without my help. On the surface, things seem fine, but niggling women’s intuition and all that….


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

graciegracie said:


> I have read advice but done nothing, thanks for your concern. Having said that, my observation powers are pretty good and I think the info I seek can be uncovered without commiting any crimes.
> 
> As for my anxiety, well…yes it’s up there as I lost someone close to me with terminal illness recently. My blinkers had been on for the past 6 months with all that was going on. I think, given enough rope, if SO is up to anything untoward, he’ll hang himself without my help. On the surface, things seem fine, but niggling women’s intuition and all that….


Very sorry you’re going through this OP. I hope you’re able to find peace of mind/closure and stay safe in the process.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

recovering2018 said:


> It would also be helpful if the know-it-alls on this forum didn't jump to conclusions about laws being broken.
> 
> So I think the administrators can shoot these topics down if they see fit.




Maybe you haven’t read/understood some of the responses here. Some that appear to describe perpetrated crimes are from mods.


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## Hans68 (Dec 3, 2016)

Niggling woman's intuition...that's the gut feeling everyone talks about and it's true. It knew what was happening long before my rational side did.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Married-Man said:


> Maybe you haven’t read/understood some of the responses here. Some that appear to describe perpetrated crimes are from mods.


People install things on routers all the time in their own homes, they are perfectly legal. You can check the history on the router itself on many of them. People log into public WiFi connections all the time, and when you share domicile, bills and internet connections… you have no guarantee of your own discreet slice of that connection. It’s not really the most secure way to browse the Internet, which is why VPN exists, and I don’t know of any laws which protect your privacy when accessing the Internet. So no. I don’t think it’s a crime or what the mod was speaking about being a crime… no more so than looking at a phone bill, or a credit card Reciept.

Are there some potentially illegal things being asked about? Maybe. We don’t know what her state’s privacy laws are. The responsibility is on the person implementing said measures. She asked, suggestions were given, I think the OP is very well aware of what is or is not lawful in her state and can act accordingly.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

graciegracie said:


> I have read advice but done nothing, thanks for your concern. Having said that, my observation powers are pretty good and I think the info I seek can be uncovered without commiting any crimes.
> 
> As for my anxiety, well…yes it’s up there as I lost someone close to me with terminal illness recently. My blinkers had been on for the past 6 months with all that was going on. I think, given enough rope, if SO is up to anything untoward, he’ll hang himself without my help. On the surface, things seem fine, but niggling women’s intuition and all that….


I'm sorry for a person passed in your life gracie.
There's no need for spying or debasing yourself to 'get to the truth.' The truth is already in front of you. Trust yourself.
I wish you well, condolences for your loss.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

QuietRiot said:


> People install things on routers all the time in their own homes, they are perfectly legal. You can check the history on the router itself on many of them. People log into public WiFi connections all the time, and when you share domicile, bills and internet connections… you have no guarantee of your own discreet slice of that connection. It’s not really the most secure way to browse the Internet, which is why VPN exists, and I don’t know of any laws which protect your privacy when accessing the Internet. So no. I don’t think it’s a crime or what the mod was speaking about being a crime… no more so than looking at a phone bill, or a credit card Reciept.
> 
> Are there some potentially illegal things being asked about? Maybe. We don’t know what her state’s privacy laws are. The responsibility is on the person implementing said measures. She asked, suggestions were given, I think the OP is very well aware of what is or is not lawful in her state and can act accordingly.


I’m referring to illegally accessing your spouse’s computer and installing spyware on it. 

There is an anecdote shared earlier in this thread where someone obtained a password to their spouse’s pc by grabbing it from their wifi router logs. From there, they used the surreptitiously obtained credential to gain access to their spouse’s computer. From there, they installed spyware/keylogger on the victim’s computer which stole and transferred the victim’s sensitive private data to some web service which the hacker had access to. Criminal.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Married-Man said:


> I’m referring to illegally accessing your spouse’s computer and installing spyware on it.
> 
> There is an anecdote shared earlier in this thread where someone obtained a password to their spouses’d pc by grabbing it from their wifi router logs. From there, they used the surreptitiously obtained credential to gain access to their spouse’s computer. From there, they installed spyware/keylogger on the victim’s computer which stole and transferred the victim’s sensitive private data to some web service which the hacker had access to. Criminal.


If I were a lawyer I’d begin arguing community property and the rights to privacy within that property… maybe criminal, probably not.

*Also, not saying you’re wrong. But most people are never really held accountable for any of this stuff even when it is in violation of some law. I don’t think law enforcement has caught up with the technology.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Depending on where you are, recording a conversation that you are a part of is perfectly legal even IF the other party doesn't know you are doing it (1-party consent).


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

QuietRiot said:


> If I were a lawyer I’d begin arguing community property and the rights to privacy within that property… maybe criminal, probably not.
> 
> *Also, not saying you’re wrong. But most people are never really held accountable for any of this stuff even when it is in violation of some law. I don’t think law enforcement has caught up with the technology.





QuietRiot said:


> If I were a lawyer I’d begin arguing community property and the rights to privacy within that property… maybe criminal, probably not.
> 
> *Also, not saying you’re wrong. But most people are never really held accountable for any of this stuff even when it is in violation of some law. I don’t think law enforcement has caught up with the technology.


Not disagreeing with you, but the fact of the matter is that unauthorized access of a computer, surreptitiously installing spyware on a computer and monitoring someone’s private communications without their consent all violate various computer and privacy laws (depending on jurisdiction). Who knows if it would actually be prosecuted - but it is at least highly unethical and at worst illegal. 

Hopefully that and someone’s decency/integrity/self-respect/dignity are enough of a deterrent to prevent these activities. 

There’s precedent for this: Oakland County Prosecutor: Leon Walker charged for hacking, not snooping on cheating spouse


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Married-Man said:


> I’m referring to illegally accessing your spouse’s computer and installing spyware on it.
> 
> There is an anecdote shared earlier in this thread where someone obtained a password to their spouse’s pc by grabbing it from their wifi router logs. From there, they used the surreptitiously obtained credential to gain access to their spouse’s computer. From there, they installed spyware/keylogger on the victim’s computer which stole and transferred the victim’s sensitive private data to some web service which the hacker had access to. *Criminal.*


How so?

And in which jurisdictions?

Wouldn’t a spouse’s PC be considered marital property?


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> Wouldn’t a spouse’s PC be considered marital property?


Surely, unless it was employer-provided.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Zedd said:


> Surely, unless it was employer-provided.


Yeah, I wouldn’t touch an employer-provided PC, email, etc.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

GusPolinski said:


> Yeah, I wouldn’t touch an employer-provided PC, email, etc.


True, but on the flip side of that, the cheat would have to explain why there is affair communication, pictures or other things on their work computer while trying to get their spouse in trouble for busting them…awkward. (Don’t think that would happen too often either.)


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> How so?
> 
> And in which jurisdictions?
> 
> Wouldn’t a spouse’s PC be considered marital property?


Sure the computer could be marital property. However, accessing someone else's email or social media accounts or any other computer system or services that one is not authorized to access violates the law (depending on the jurisdiction).

Here are just a few handy examples California: Illinois: New York: It's well-established law. 

If anyone is interested in seeing a state-by-state breakdown of computer laws: State Computer Crime Laws - FindLaw

Whether or not it would be prosecuted -- that's up to the legal system. But these laws exist to protect people's privacy rights.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

OP doesn’t appear to be in the U.S.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

Openminded said:


> OP doesn’t appear to be in the U.S.


Yes probably from U.K. (based on “fobbed off” and “behaviour” and such). Privacy laws aren’t universal but most “Western” countries have similar laws - including in the U.K/E.U. of course.


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## recovering2018 (Sep 9, 2021)

This will vary by jurisdiction (especially country), but for many of us, a PC purchased with marital funds in the house is going to be community property. The information physically stored on the PC (like on the hard drive, flash drive) may be fair game.
Where you definitely cross the line is when you intercept communications between the PC and the outside world or if you access information stored on outside systems (like iCloud, GMail, Facebook, etc.) without authorization.
There is more grey area... The PC applications that access these outside systems (usually the web browser) can leave history and fragments (often referred to as cache) of information behind on the PC. A skilled forensic technician can often retrieve these fragments and piece together a story.

Those who are advised to carry a VAR for protection... as long as you preannounce to the other party(s) they are being recorded, you probably aren't running afoul of the law.
The problem with planting a VAR is that you don't know who or what you'll be recording. Recording a phone call without consent is almost always criminal.

Obviously check with a lawyer if you're worried about it.

As far as the ethical arguments... cheating is unethical. If we already know that the other side is cheating, and we're just collecting evidence, oh well I say...


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

QuietRiot said:


> True, but on the flip side of that, the cheat would have to explain why there is affair communication, pictures or other things on their work computer while trying to get their spouse in trouble for busting them…awkward. (Don’t think that would happen too often either.)


This brings up a good point if you have company provided cell phones or laptop. You can almost with 100% certainty guarantee it has monitoring software on it. That software....

Has access to every file.
Can turn on camera and take pics/videos anytime
GPS tracking
Record conversations
Monitor conversations
View texts
Monitor web use
Remotely lock and wipe phone clean

I have seen cases and heard of people being fired because of the phone. I HIGHLY recommend you do not even take a company phone into your home. Do not have conversations of anything you want to remain private around the phone. And put a little sticker over the front and back canera.
.
It sounds like paranoid thinking, but its not. These companies like to spy on employees and learn what they can about you... If you get assigned company equipment and have to sign a waiver of privacy, then you can bet it has Spyware installed. Another sign is if you notice the phone suddenly getting slow, battery getting warm, and the battery level dropping faster than normal.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

If your spouse is cheating on you, is it unethical to take _whatever_ steps necessary to find out / catch them? Not in my book. Avoiding steps to find out the truth is simply putting your head in the sand.

I get that this may be a different opinion from the rule followers, and I respect their opinions and advice also, but my advice is do whatever it takes.


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## Chaparralredux (Apr 21, 2021)

Check Amazon among others for disguised surveillance cameras. They come in a wonderful array of working devices. There are also online companies with unlimited ways to catch a cheater.
As far as workplace affairs go they are the hardest to detect. Long lunches, leave work early/late, take the day off, closets/storage/ empty rooms etc.

As far as legality goes, never give up sources or explain how you get your info. Besides lying to a cheater is simply self defense against an abuser.


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## JLCP (Aug 18, 2021)

re16 said:


> If your spouse is cheating on you, is it unethical to take _whatever_ steps necessary to find out / catch them? Not in my book. Avoiding steps to find out the truth is simply putting your head in the sand.
> 
> I get that this may be a different opinion from the rule followers, and I respect their opinions and advice also, but my advice is do whatever it takes.


I had opportunity to do “whatever it takes” and decided against it. I was looking at installing some software or downloading info as I had the passwords. However, I saw posts that much of the software to do this is from companies in China and I was worried about opening a door for hackers. Since we are near retirement and have significant assets, I did not want to risk hackers getting into accounts. No point in ruining both of our retirements by someone emptying out an account. I really wanted to know the truth but thought financial security in retirement takes precedence. However, the old fashioned VAR can be done without those worries. I am also interested in monitoring the router but I guess the Archer router he set up is not good for that purpose. Hopefully I can find a way to do that. I am interested in doing the pinhole camera but fear he would notice. I am thinking about installing it for a few days only and then removing it for a time and then reinstalling. 
of note is that VARs can provide useful info about the usual habits of a person. Then it makes it more obvious when something unusual is done.


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## CoupleUpForTrouble (9 mo ago)

graciegracie said:


> I am leaning towards a nanny cam, have a few ideas of what I might be able to do.
> 
> He does use porn, I wouldn’t say in an obsessive way that I’ve noticed - I’m not totally against that and he knows I’m not prudish (and am an occasional user myself). It’s not likely to be worth being so secretive about, as I wouldn’t kick him out over porn.
> 
> ...


You need to get that phone bill. Tell him that you are looking at changing plans and you need to go over the last 3 months.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

What is the update? Have you been able to collect any evidence Grace?


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