# What to do?



## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Talk me off the ledge:
Sorry this is long. I tried to sum it up.

My story is like so many on here. HD/LD mismatch. Didn’t know that until 5 months ago. 50 y.o. male married 26 years with 2 kids. Let years pass by consuming myself with work, parenting, managing a household, exercising and life in general. Knew my sex life wasn’t what I wanted it to be but after a few early years of complaining, decided to try to love her unconditionally, as she does me and just masturbate the years away. We typically had sex once a month and I masturbated 5-10 times per week. 

But, 5 months ago, something happened that changed it all. An attractive female employee, who over time had told me more personal stories, vented to me that she was dissatisfied with her sex life. Newly married and 33 y.o., she was not having sex nearly as much as she wanted and that when they did it was very “vanilla”. Over time, I learned more, and one day she talked about how she once had a stripper pole to dance for a boyfriend, that she and one boyfriend once did it 13 times in one day, that she was mad because her new husband didn’t know how to use her toys, that she needed sex at least several time per week and maybe even a couple of times per day. She assured me that she knew lots of women who felt the same as she about sex and that she and some friends even competing for a rubber duck trophy that went to whoever had the most erotic experience. And, no she wasn’t hitting on me. She was confiding in me as her boss.
I was fascinated, stunned, frustrated, aroused, awakened and angry but determined to do something about it. I was on an emotional roller-coaster for weeks trying to comprehend what went against everything I had tried to believe; that all men wanted sex more than women and that no women really wanted sex. That my situation was how it had to be. It brought my issue to the surface and along with mid-life crisis and an impending empty nest syndrome, I couldn’t repress it anymore.
I did my research about my own habits, my desires, my drive and looked into the whole HD/LD scenario. I became confident that I was perfectly normal and that wanting a better sex life was fair. I learned about pity sex, duty sex and that I was justified being angry about being rejected 29 out of 30 days for decades. 
I “had the talk” with my wife. It lasted months. It took her a long time to accept what I was telling her. I can’t say that she understands. But, she has tried to accommodate me. At first I thought I just needed sex more often. We agreed to more frequent encounters. That was not satisfying knowing she didn’t really want to but was doing it for me. Then, I thought I needed sex to be more sexy. We bought a toy. Fun, at first, but not the solution. I then believed that the issue was her lack of desire. She loves me unconditionally, a very admirable quality. She is willing to have sex with me because she loves ME. I wanted her to have sex with me because she wants SEX. She took DHEA talked to her Ob/Gyn. No better. After over four months, little has changed. More so, I now have reflected on, thought about and dissected the issue to where I don’t think I find sex with her to be desirable. The more I think about it, the more I am realizing that I just don’t find my wife very desirable, because I know she does not find me desirable.
Now, I am thinking I need someone who desires sex like I do. I want someone who needs to have sex. I want someone who wants to have sex with me because they love sex. 
I hesitated for months to write this, but I just can’t get it out of my mind. I am consumed by this day and night. I have become totally obsessed with the employee. She has grown more and more attractive to me as I get to know her better. And now that I know she craves sex and is not satisfied either, I am fearful of acting on my obsession and embarrassing myself. Every day, I look at her and want to tell her everything that I have been thinking, pondering and wondering. I question if my obsession with her is really with her or is it with sex. Bear in mind, I don’t believe she considers me anything but a confidant, a colleague, a boss and someone to listen. But I can’t help but wonder if there could be a great sexual experience waiting to happen. I think I finally got around to posting this because I just felt I needed to talk to someone. To get this out there and see what advice I can get from people who have been on either side of this situation. 
I have contemplated the full gamut of options from 
1.	Do nothing. Love your wife unconditionally. Return to being the best husband you can be. Sacrifice any hope of sexual satisfaction for her happiness. Continue to pretend that she satisfies me. Be a “good” man.
2.	Continue to talk to her and try to mold her into something that she can not be. She is LD (or no desire). Continue to stress her out that she is not fulfilling my needs or expectations. Continue to hurt her, to diminish her self-esteem for my sexual satisfaction.
3.	Act on my feelings toward my employee. Tell her how I feel. Risk my job, my career, my reputation, my life, my marriage, my respect, my kids for the slimmest of possibilities that she would ever even consider the idea as anything other than ridiculous. Or maybe talk to her just to rule out possibilities in order to diffuse the obsession.
4.	Seek a sex buddy. Find someone through one of these sites that caters to those wanting an affair. Justify that I would be unburdening my wife by doing so. Justify that it would not be cheating because cheating implies that the other spouse would feel cheated out of not having sex.
5.	Tell my wife I need more. End something that most would consider me fortunate to have for the improbability of finding something better.
What do I do? Or What should I absolutely not do.
Talk me off the ledge.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Option 5 is your first and best option. 
Option 6 is counseling with a sex therapist. 
Option 7 is to ask for an open marriage. 
Option 8 is to divorce and seek a good relationship that includes sex for the *next 20 years or more*.

Options 1 and 2 would be your choice if you are unwilling to upset the apple cart, and you would simply have to live with the situation as I doubt that option 2 will ever change things - they haven't changed or been different previously, after all. Options 3 and 4 aren't ethical or wise - and they could lead to sexual harassment suits or losing big in a divorce if your wife discovers it.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Conceal, 
My experience would mirror yours in many respects. However, the last couple years (been married 23 years) I have had the best sex of my life. It's so good, I cannot even imagine it getting much better.
I think one of the most important things was to learn to be a great lover. I'm talking about kissing every part of your wifes body, taking your time and letting your own O be an out of body experience that you're willing to share with your wife.

It took a good two years for my wife to come around. At first we did the exact same thing you did. More sex, but it was crappy sex. Little by little I kept eating her up, giving her better and better orgasms to where now I can tell she wants me, she craves me. Not as often as you may imagine, but at least twice a week to once a week I can tell she wants it as much as me.

I simply made our bed a relaxing get away where she could leave everything outside the door and just have fun with me. It's a complicated process that I'm still learning.

I will tell you this. As inviting and tempting as you think your coworker may be, it's not worth it. Giving away everything for one night of over the top pleasure is not worth it. Stay here and learn. You'll be amazed at how good it can get, even with your wife of 26 years.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I am in the same boat!!!!

I think our only real options are to do:

1)

or

Divorce


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Your wife has been open to trying...for you. Not for herself but for you. I urge you not to over look that very important fact.

There might be a way for to increase her sexual desire level and there might not be. I think your first step is to make a firm decision and share it with your wife once made.

Are you willing to end your marriage in order to find a relationship that meets your sexual needs as well as your other emotional needs?

I'm not minimizing your sexual needs at all. Once you learned that your previously held belief that "men want sex and women don't so you just have to deal with it," was wrong, you could not put that genie back in the bottle. There is nothing wrong with saying that your need to have a fulfilling sex life with reciprocal desire is very important to you, so important you cannot stay in a marriage in which that is absent.

Once you've made that decision, you gently take it to your wife and seek out specialized counseling together. You owe it to your wife to turn every stone to try to save your marriage.

You post doesn't mention if your wife ever seems to enjoy sex or not. Your post doesn't mention your wife's understanding about sex, nor her ability to fully express herself. She may be a truly low to no desire woman or she may be terribly repressed, or she may be sexually ignorant. This leads me to wonder if your wife has a basic understanding of what you want from her, if she could be adequately educated to better grasp the components of desire and how to foster it along, or if she simply lacks passion in all areas of life.

You haven't tried everything, so get going.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> Conceal,
> My experience would mirror yours in many respects. However, the last couple years (been married 23 years) I have had the best sex of my life. It's so good, I cannot even imagine it getting much better.
> I think one of the most important things was to learn to be a great lover. I'm talking about kissing every part of your wifes body, taking your time and letting your own O be an out of body experience that you're willing to share with your wife.
> 
> ...


I wish I could give this more than one like!


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> Option 5 is your first and best option.
> Option 6 is counseling with a sex therapist.
> Option 7 is to ask for an open marriage.
> Option 8 is to divorce and seek a good relationship that includes sex for the *next 20 years or more*.
> ...


First of all, thank you all so much for replying. It is so good to hear from people about this, to talk about it. One thing I didn't mention is that I am a work-aholic, exercise addict and have few friends. I literally have no one to share this with...until you.

I do think I am very reluctant to upset the apple cart. She is a wonderful person. I, for 26 years, have tried to put her feelings ahead of mine. I would rather her be happy and me not. I am glad to hear such harsh comments on options 3 and 4. I needed that.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

UMP said:


> Conceal,
> My experience would mirror yours in many respects. However, the last couple years (been married 23 years) I have had the best sex of my life. It's so good, I cannot even imagine it getting much better.
> I think one of the most important things was to learn to be a great lover. I'm talking about kissing every part of your wifes body, taking your time and letting your own O be an out of body experience that you're willing to share with your wife.
> 
> ...


UMP, This is great advice. We have, over the last few months, revisited much of what you describe above. She struggles with letting sex be a get away. I can't imagine her ever wanting it as much as I, but I do agree that I have just begun to learn about my own desires, let alone hers. I just don't know if I can put in the effort. 

As far as the coworker, my crazy fantasy is that it would not be ONE night of over the top pleasure, but rather once a day really good sex for all of eternity...


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

SadSamIAm said:


> I am in the same boat!!!!
> 
> I think our only real options are to do:
> 
> ...


I was kinda hoping these would be the consensus replies. I think I mostly need to be talked out of options 3 and 4. I don't think divorce is an option as I just think I can't do that to her.
Why isn't there a pill to heighten sex drive in women?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

You have been given really great advice so far. I hope you choose to follow those options and shut this inappropriate relationship with your employee down.

Save yourself a lot of grief and money. This woman is not an innocent who is sharing her discontent. She is a predator. She has nothing to lose getting you all worked up sharing the details of her high sex drive. You don't share some amazing connection, she is playing the obvious odds. You have been married a long time, the sex life gets stale, and you radiate it...This isn't the basis for some amazing relationship.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

CDF-- 

I am going to focus on the career thing because I think there is a VERY straightforward answer there. 

From the sound of it, you have already set yourself up for a sexual harrassment suit.

You have an underling who you have talked about very intimate things with. What happens if your relationship sours? She could tell a very interesting story. 

This is NOT worth the risk.

You need to have a serious conversation with her right away. Tell her that you've given it a lot of thought and you think things have gotten a little too personal between you. You need to be very careful about how you phrase this-- if it comes off as you shaming her, it could cause the very backlash you need to avoid.

If she brings up personal things again, find a way to change the subject back to work.

Do not interact with her more than necessary.

If you have a good network, try to find a way to help her elevate her career that gets her out from under your supervision. That way it is a win for both of you.

THIS WILL END BADLY FOR YOU IF YOU DON'T STOP NOW. 

Figure out a way out of this relationship that allows you both to save face.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You are walking a dangerous line in talking to a female subordinate about your sex lives.

Especially since you are now obsessed with her.

Sadly, the reality is that you should get rid of this employee. You are not going to get out of this unscathed now that you've crossed this line. What you are doing is called sexual harassment in the workplace.

I think you should contact an attorney that deals with employment law and ask how best to let her go (with severance, a glowing recommendation, and unemployment if she seeks it).


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Your wife has been open to trying...for you. Not for herself but for you. I urge you not to over look that very important fact.
> 
> There might be a way for to increase her sexual desire level and there might not be. I think your first step is to make a firm decision and share it with your wife once made.
> 
> ...


I haven't overlooked the fact that she has been willing to try things for me. I admit, she is the far better person. I struggle with my guilt over this. I know even posting on here is a violation of her trust. I have written and deleted my initial post before because I tried to swallow this whole situation. But it keeps resurfacing. I can't put the genie back in the bottle.

I don't think I am willing to end my marriage over this. But, I have no idea if I could find anyone that would fulfill my emotional and sexual needs, as I have never tried. I know that the more I analyze the situation, the more I realize we are not as compatible as I once thought. We really share very little interests, other than what we have built over 26 years, which is a lot. And you are correct, I owe her a lot. 

My wife does enjoy it, once I get her to participate. But a huge part of this is that I am just so tired of having to initiate every time and being rejected almost every time.

Part of our education over the past few months has been trying to get her to understand that it is OK to enjoy it, to want it, to open up, relax. I have tried to uncover why she is low desire; if it is biological, psychological, sociological, or religious. She had never masturbated. I tried to encourage her to take time for herself and do so. She said she tried it once. She "doesn't like to talk about it" (sex). It's hard to have open communications about something she is uncomfortable talking about. We have discussed her low energy and passion in all areas of life. Her Ob/Gyn prescribed an anti-depressant. She took it for just one week and stopped. 

Over the years, I have tried a range of tactics. I have done the 180. I have waited and waited for her to initiate. I have masturbated until I was bleeding to try to stifle my desires, therefore, my advances and therefore, my rejections. We have discussed fantasies. She has none. I have tried to get her to watch porn; nope. I have asked her if she is attracted, sexually to any celebrities; nope. In these recent talks, she has explained to me that she does not find guys physically attractive. She doesn't think of them like that. Which really made me realize that all my years of exercise and diet to maintain a good physique were certainly not doing anything for her. That also helped me understand why she has never exercised or dieted despite my pleading, encouraging, insisting and supporting...over the years. She doesn't find others physiques attractive, so she doesn't bother to keep herself attractive. 

I have become more bold lately and indicated she really should start to loose weight and exercise. I have asked her to wear perfume to wear lipstick. I have let her know that her physical appearance does matter to me. I have asked her to shave (down there). She is against that. I don't know why. She dismisses me if I try to bring it up.

Sorry, I'm rambling. Again, feels good to vent. To know someone is actually reading this.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> UMP, This is great advice. We have, over the last few months, revisited much of what you describe above. She struggles with letting sex be a get away. I can't imagine her ever wanting it as much as I, but I do agree that I have just begun to learn about my own desires, let alone hers. I just don't know if I can put in the effort.
> 
> As far as the coworker, my crazy fantasy is that it would not be ONE night of over the top pleasure, but rather once a day really good sex for all of eternity...


I also felt this way. I got a check up and was given testosterone cream and Viagra to help. I put more effort in dating my wife 20 years into our marriage as compared to when we first met.

Essentially, I was RE-courting my wife. I started from scratch, got myself together as best as I could and started dating my wife ALL OVER AGAIN. Along the way, routine, life troubles, parents, sickness, children, money, etc. etc. etc. ALL get in the way of marriage. It took me two years to win my wife back. It's not that I cheated or did anything overtly wrong. I just became the typical out of shape, angry, wear anything, tv slob husband that is so common. That is NOT what my wife is attracted to.

Date your wife. Take her out and win her heart again. Keep the sex interesting and fun. Learn how to make her orgasm each and every time. Reclaim your wife. Once you reclaim her, NEVER let go. Keep up the work and never look back again.
It's worth the effort.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Also wanted to add that I haven't disregarded her feelings in all of this. As we have talked over the last few months, I have asked her what she wants from me, what she needs, what can I do to make her happier.

She struggles with stress, low energy, depression, sense of purpose (as we all do). I have listened to her and I have texted or called almost daily just to say hi or I love you. I have brought her a single rose each Friday this year (as both a reminder of my love and commitment, but admittedly as a reminder to her, too of our talks and what I expect, or at least what I am thinking.)

I have offered her neck rubs, back rubs, held her hand on walks and tried to be there more for her. I have helped more with "chores" that she usually does. I have tried to be a better friend. Admittedly, I am not doing a very good job of this lately.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> We have discussed fantasies. She has none. I have tried to get her to watch porn; nope. I have asked her if she is attracted, sexually to any celebrities; nope. In these recent talks, she has explained to me that she does not find guys physically attractive. She doesn't think of them like that.


Exactly what my wife said.

Every woman is different. Just because she "says" that she has no fantasies does not mean they do not exist. You just have not been able to access that part of her brain. Maybe she can't even access it. That is your job. You need to crack her code.

At first, I think my wife "tried" to be more in to sex, for me. However, along the way something flipped inside her head that told her "hey, this is way more fun than I thought it would be."

Before I knew it, she was shoving a vibrator up my anus during a BJ. I NEVER asked for it, never even hinted for it. She just did it. She never used to writhe in pleasure, but now she does. Sex is SUPPOSED to be fun. Who does not like to have fun? Make sex fun for her and she will eventually get into it. I am not saying it will happen over night and I am not saying there will not be bumps in the road. I AM saying that it is a road worth travelling.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> You have been given really great advice so far. I hope you choose to follow those options and shut this inappropriate relationship with your employee down.
> 
> Save yourself a lot of grief and money. This woman is not an innocent who is sharing her discontent. She is a predator. She has nothing to lose getting you all worked up sharing the details of her high sex drive. You don't share some amazing connection, she is playing the obvious odds. You have been married a long time, the sex life gets stale, and you radiate it...This isn't the basis for some amazing relationship.





Anon1111 said:


> CDF--
> 
> I am going to focus on the career thing because I think there is a VERY straightforward answer there.
> 
> ...


Kristin, Anon,
I agree with you completely. I did take action months ago. The conversations did escalate over months, primarily once she remarried. They did reach a point where I couldn't handle what she was sharing. I did then, admittedly, embarrass myself to her. I immediately apologized. We both realized that we should not have these types of conversations given our professional relationship. We agreed that any conversation that had to be whispered or couldn't be said in front of others, shouldn't be said. We have not revisited the topic since (5 months). The problem is not her. It is me. I can't imagine that there are women who want sex and are not having it, while there are men ready and willing. It just seems like a social constraint that shouldn't exist.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

UMP said:


> Exactly what my wife said.
> 
> Before I knew it, she was shoving a vibrator up my anus during a BJ. I NEVER asked for it, never even hinted for it. She just did it. She never used to writhe in pleasure, but now she does. Sex is SUPPOSED to be fun. Who does not like to have fun? Make sex fun for her and she will eventually get into it. I am not saying it will happen over night and I am not saying there will not be bumps in the road. I AM saying that it is a road worth travelling.


Boy did I need to read that. :lol:
Yikes, I have to admit, that's not something I want. 

Might I ask, how old are you and your wife? I am wondering about the whole menopause thing (that my wife is going through).


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Also wanted to add that I haven't disregarded her feelings in all of this. As we have talked over the last few months, I have asked her what she wants from me, what she needs, what can I do to make her happier.
> 
> She struggles with stress, low energy, depression, sense of purpose (as we all do). I have listened to her and I have texted or called almost daily just to say hi or I love you. I have brought her a single rose each Friday this year (as both a reminder of my love and commitment, but admittedly as a reminder to her, too of our talks and what I expect, or at least what I am thinking.)
> 
> I have offered her neck rubs, back rubs, held her hand on walks and tried to be there more for her. I have helped more with "chores" that she usually does. I have tried to be a better friend. Admittedly, I am not doing a very good job of this lately.


Be careful with all the "nice" stuff. I am not saying not to be nice and not do nice things for your wife. However, don't stray too far from who you are and who she married. Speaking about my wife, because she is really the only woman I now know, if I started doing laundry she would wonder what the hell was wrong with me. I do plenty of nice things for my wife, but I also stand firm when I need to.

Years ago, when I started this transformation, I told her that I wanted and needed sex at least twice a week. Not starfish sex, REAL, into it, great sex is what I was after, with HER and only her. I was willing to do whatever it took, but I needed her to be on board and also told her that if we were unable to achieve this, I was going to leave.

Be nice, but be yourself and FIRM at the same time.

Keep in mind, when you ask your wife for great sex or you are leaving, providing all her parts work and she is physically able, you're not asking for the moon, you're asking for something reasonable to ask from your mate.
I acknowledged that I was part of the problem and was going to fix myself with vigor. I also wanted her to put in the same effort. She says she has no fantasies, well at least "try" to make me your fantasy and see what happens. It's something you both have to work on. Demanding an effort from your wife is NOT unreasonable. If we were living in government housing and I was sitting on my asss all day, I do NOT think it would be unreasonable for my wife to sit me down and say "honey, I love you but this is not working for us. You need to get a better job and take care of your family or I am leaving."


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Kristin, Anon,
> I agree with you completely. I did take action months ago. The conversations did escalate over months, primarily once she remarried. They did reach a point where I couldn't handle what she was sharing. I did then, admittedly, embarrass myself to her. I immediately apologized. We both realized that we should not have these types of conversations given our professional relationship. We agreed that any conversation that had to be whispered or couldn't be said in front of others, shouldn't be said. We have not revisited the topic since (5 months). The problem is not her. It is me. I can't imagine that there are women who want sex and are not having it, while there are men ready and willing. It just seems like a social constraint that shouldn't exist.


OK, you're smart enough to realize you are in trouble.

You won't be out of the woods until she no longer works for you.

Next time she is up for a raise and doesn't get it, will that be when she decides it's convenient to use her leverage?

Next time there is an office party and you've had a couple of drinks, can you really trust yourself?

You know this: This woman is just a SYMBOL of what you could have. It's not HER. But yet you have given her this power over you that you really can't take back.

Find another woman to fixate on sexually, even if it's not your wife.

And figure out a smart way to get this woman out of your environment that does not expose you.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Boy did I need to read that. :lol:
> Yikes, I have to admit, that's not something I want.
> 
> Might I ask, how old are you and your wife? I am wondering about the whole menopause thing (that my wife is going through).


Me 53 wife 49 and going through menopause.
Married 24 years in August.
3 kids, oldest severely mentally handicapped.
I am in a business that drops me in front of REALLY good looking HOT transient MILFS who stay in hotels. They would make your co - worker look like Aunt Bee.

If I can stay happily married and have great sex, with ONLY my wife, anyone can.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Kristin, Anon,
> I agree with you completely. I did take action months ago. The conversations did escalate over months, primarily once she remarried. They did reach a point where I couldn't handle what she was sharing. I did then, admittedly, embarrass myself to her. I immediately apologized. We both realized that we should not have these types of conversations given our professional relationship. We agreed that any conversation that had to be whispered or couldn't be said in front of others, shouldn't be said. We have not revisited the topic since (5 months). The problem is not her. It is me. I can't imagine that there are women who want sex and are not having it, while there are men ready and willing. It just seems like a social constraint that shouldn't exist.



There are plenty of women & men that are not getting the sex they want in their marriage. The reasons for that are varied and complicated.

Sharing your mutual frustrations with this young employee was not only dangerous to your career it was a betrayal of your marriage.

Your wife would probably lose all interest in having sex with you if she were to find out the truth. Normally I would say she has a right to know. But in your case I wonder what good it would do.

Have you considered that your Emotional Affair (and that is what is was by most peoples definition) only amplified your dissatisfaction with your sex life? This makes it that much harder for your wife to compare to the fantasy you have now jointly constructed with this chick. You can't engage in that sort of thing and not treat her differently and feel much more dissatisfied and annoyed. You were getting all worked up at work then coming home to no sex. I'm sure she sensed something different.

Buy the book "His Needs Her Needs"


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I haven't overlooked the fact that she has been willing to try things for me. I admit, she is the far better person. I struggle with my guilt over this. I know even posting on here is a violation of her trust. I have written and deleted my initial post before because I tried to swallow this whole situation. But it keeps resurfacing. I can't put the genie back in the bottle.


Posting here is not a violation of your wife’s trust. This is anonymous. No one here knows who you or your wife are. Think of this as an extension of your own mind… thinking out loud. But this time the “voices” answering back are not your own. (LOL) 
It is far better that you post here and get some feedback that will help you work through this than you react and have an affair.



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I don't think I am willing to end my marriage over this. But, I have no idea if I could find anyone that would fulfill my emotional and sexual needs, as I have never tried. I know that the more I analyze the situation, the more I realize we are not as compatible as I once thought. We really share very little interests, other than what we have built over 26 years, which is a lot. And you are correct, I owe her a lot.


A lot of the compatibility issues you mention here can be fixed. You two share few interests… well fix that. Find something that the two of you are interested in and do it. The best thing you can do is to find something that requires that you two learn something together. This means practicing together. 

Things like scuba diving, dancing, are wonderful.. they are physical activities that can be worked into your life.

For example a couple I know took up scuba diving to bring some non-sexual intimacy into their marriage. They took classes. For the last 15 years it’s been central in their lives. They take most of their vacations in the Caribbean area.. scuba vacations. They have made friends with other couples who do this. They all meet up on vacations, hire boats and go out exploring the ocean. They also have purchased underwater camera equipment. I love going over to their place and watching their vacation videos.

Other couples I know took up dancing. At first they were taking classes. Now they also teach. The travel to dance conventions, enter competitions, and have a ball (pun intended). 

The fact that the two of you now have little in common is as much your doing as it is hers. It’s something that you can work with her to fix.



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> My wife does enjoy it, once I get her to participate. But a huge part of this is that I am just so tired of having to initiate every time and being rejected almost every time.


This is something that the two of you can find tune. It sounds like your wife has responsive desire. Is she mostly turning you down because of the timing of your initiating? This happens often I think. Have you tired scheduling sex? Yea it sounds not very romantic. But it can be very romantic. When people date… its planned sex. The anticipation leading up to the date is part of the excitement of dating. 

Plan a weekly date.. a full out date without any kids around. It does not have to cost a lot. Going out for expensive dinners is not necessary all the time. Here where I live, a romantic walk along the river, a picnic basket is very romantic. Or a date right at home…. Lock your bedroom door. Have finger foods, wine, music. Dance naked and go from there. There are so many things you can do on a weekly date that would make scheduling sex very good.

And that brings up the question, how many hours a week do you and your wife spend doing date-like things, just the two of you? 



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Part of our education over the past few months has been trying to get her to understand that it is OK to enjoy it, to want it, to open up, relax. I have tried to uncover why she is low desire; if it is biological, psychological, sociological, or religious. She had never masturbated. I tried to encourage her to take time for herself and do so. She said she tried it once. She "doesn't like to talk about it" (sex). It's hard to have open communications about something she is uncomfortable talking about. We have discussed her low energy and passion in all areas of life. Her Ob/Gyn prescribed an anti-depressant. She took it for just one week and stopped.


Have you considered going to a marriage counselor who is also a sex therapist? They have techniques that they can teach you both. A sex therapist could even work just with you to teach you things that could get your wife’s motors going. I used to have a book with some of these.



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Over the years, I have tried a range of tactics. I have done the 180.


Do you mean that you did the 180 like the one linked to in my signature block below? If that’s what you did, it would not make her want to have sex with you. It would make her not want to have sex with you. 

The purpose of that 180 is for you to detach so that you an divorce more easily.



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I have waited and waited for her to initiate. I have masturbated until I was bleeding to try to stifle my desires,


Is this metaphorical or do you really mean bleeding?



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> therefore, my advances and therefore, my rejections. We have discussed fantasies. She has none. I have tried to get her to watch porn; nope. I have asked her if she is attracted, sexually to any celebrities; nope. In these recent talks, she has explained to me that she does not find guys physically attractive. She doesn't think of them like that. Which really made me realize that all my years of exercise and diet to maintain a good physique were certainly not doing anything for her. That also helped me understand why she has never exercised or dieted despite my pleading, encouraging, insisting and supporting...over the years. She doesn't find others physiques attractive, so she doesn't bother to keep herself attractive.


 How much counseling have you and your wife had with someone who knows how to deal with this? You need the help from someone who knows what they are doing. 



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I have become more bold lately and indicated she really should start to loose weight and exercise. I have asked her to wear perfume to wear lipstick. I have let her know that her physical appearance does matter to me. I have asked her to shave (down there). She is against that. I don't know why. She dismisses me if I try to bring it up.


You are trying to make your wife into who you want her to be and you are getting frustrated because she is not taking orders from you. I get that you are frustrated with her lack of interest in sex. But you cannot make her into someone else.

Let’s look at this from a different angle. Can you tell us what your wife’s love language is?



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Sorry, I'm rambling. Again, feels good to vent. To know someone is actually reading this.


For the idea of an affair with your work subordinate. She might like sex but she’s not a good person. Any woman who shares that kind of detail with her boss (another man) has some screws lose. She is either setting you up so that she can profit from a sexual harassment law suit, or she’s just not very bright and not a good wife. 

How much of your personal sexual issues have you shared with her?

At any time right now she could completely destroy everything you have worked for your entire life.

the next time she starts to "share" with you tell her that you feel badly that she is unhappy in her marriage but that she needs to get a counselor who can help her. You have come to realize that her sharing is not appropriate.

I would also be praying that she finds a new job and quits.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Also wanted to add that I haven't disregarded her feelings in all of this. As we have talked over the last few months, I have asked her what she wants from me, what she needs, what can I do to make her happier.
> 
> She struggles with stress, low energy, depression, sense of purpose (as we all do). I have listened to her and I have texted or called almost daily just to say hi or I love you. I have brought her a single rose each Friday this year (as both a reminder of my love and commitment, but admittedly as a reminder to her, too of our talks and what I expect, or at least what I am thinking.)
> 
> I have offered her neck rubs, back rubs, held her hand on walks and tried to be there more for her. I have helped more with "chores" that she usually does. I have tried to be a better friend. Admittedly, I am not doing a very good job of this lately.


How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you, doing things that you both enjoy?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

He said he and the coworker haven't talked about this for months. 

It's a dangerous situation, to be sure. However, I feel like I know where you are coming from OP. You didn't seek the coworker out to talk about sex. However when she did it opened your eyes and shocked you. You didn't know there were women who enjoyed sex and wanted sex. Now understandably it's in your head that there are. 

A similar thing happened to me here on this board. I honestly didn't realize there were men who desired a woman's orgasm. I thought the only women lucky enough to have orgasms were just physically inclined to get one during the act. The rest of us were out of luck and that was that. 

Once your mind adjusts to this new reality there are deep feelings of regret for what you have missed out on in life. There are feelings of anger. I went through a period where I wanted to hurt my DH because his years of sexual apathy had hurt me so much and taken so much away from me that I could have been enjoying in life. 

In any case I can't offer you solutions, just empathy. I don't think you are a bad person for your feelings, even the feelings of considering cheating. I honestly never thought I was the type to consider cheating. I thought those people were awful and without morals. But I see it in a different light now. It's just a human feeling, these all are human feelings.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

UMP said:


> Be careful with all the "nice" stuff. I am not saying not to be nice and not do nice things for your wife. However, don't stray too far from who you are and who she married. Speaking about my wife, because she is really the only woman I now know, if I started doing laundry she would wonder what the hell was wrong with me. I do plenty of nice things for my wife, but I also stand firm when I need to.
> 
> Years ago, when I started this transformation, I told her that I wanted and needed sex at least twice a week. Not starfish sex, REAL, into it, great sex is what I was after, with HER and only her. I was willing to do whatever it took, but I needed her to be on board and also told her that if we were unable to achieve this, I was going to leave.
> 
> ...


I think I am being myself. Just trying to help more with things around the house, hoping to reduce her stress and give her more energy.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> OK, you're smart enough to realize you are in trouble.
> 
> You won't be out of the woods until she no longer works for you.
> 
> ...


I am constantly still debating these points. Especially the couple of drinks situation. I don't know that I could trust myself with any attractive woman in this situation.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

UMP said:


> Me 53 wife 49 and going through menopause.
> Married 24 years in August.
> 3 kids, oldest severely mentally handicapped.
> I am in a business that drops me in front of REALLY good looking HOT transient MILFS who stay in hotels. They would make your co - worker look like Aunt Bee.
> ...


Do you find your wife attractive? have you always? How do I find her attractive again? If I ever did.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Posting here is not a violation of your wife’s trust. This is anonymous. No one here knows who you or your wife are. Think of this as an extension of your own mind… thinking out loud. But this time the “voices” answering back are not your own. (LOL)
> It is far better that you post here and get some feedback that will help you work through this than you react and have an affair.
> 
> 
> ...


Lots of good points.
We have not had any counseling.
I would love it if she would scuba dive. She hates water. Won't even swim. She won't drink wine. conflicts with blood pressure meds. Would love to get her to "lock" the door. She won't have sex unless all conditions are just right. Kids must not know what we are doing so either they have to be gone for sure or asleep. Yes, I am frustrated.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you, doing things that you both enjoy?


There are so few things we enjoy together. And now that seems even more exaggerated that I am frustrated. We watch TV together, although she falls asleep around 8p on couch. So, I watch alone. We go out to dinner once per week...with her sister. That's all we do together other than managing life.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> There are plenty of women & men that are not getting the sex they want in their marriage. The reasons for that are varied and complicated.
> 
> Sharing your mutual frustrations with this young employee was not only dangerous to your career it was a betrayal of your marriage.
> 
> ...


My wife does know. I told her all the details. I was unsure if this was the best thing for her. but, I was aware of the dangers to my career from the discussions. That is what opened the door to discussion with my wife about how important a better sex life was to me. Yes, I realize this EA is exactly what lead to the greater dissatisfaction with my sex life. 

But now, I am not sure how to make the fantasy go away.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

MissScarlett said:


> He said he and the coworker haven't talked about this for months.
> 
> It's a dangerous situation, to be sure. However, I feel like I know where you are coming from OP. You didn't seek the coworker out to talk about sex. However when she did it opened your eyes and shocked you. You didn't know there were women who enjoyed sex and wanted sex. Now understandably it's in your head that there are.
> 
> ...


YES, YES, YES, YES...exactly how I feel.

Thank you all so much for the responses. I do like the idea of thinking of this as an extension of my mind with the luxury of someone other than me responding.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

There are a lot of women who aren't getting as much sex as they want from their partners. Google Sexless Marriage and Dead Bedroom and it's about half women and half men complaining they aren't getting enough sex or not the kind they want on the forums. It was a surprise to me too as I thought I was the only one. 

I think tiptoeing around the situation and not upsetting the applecart is not the best way to approach this. You deserve to be fulfilled sexually and not have to live this way for the rest of your life. You should continue to talk to your wife about it, maybe suggest counseling. Don't have an affair or get a sex buddy and cut off all personal contact with your co worker. If your wife wants to stay married she needs to take this seriously and get out of her comfort zone.

From reading the forums I have mentioned there isn't a high success rate of couples staying together. Resentment builds and after not having sex for months or years some just loose the desire and think of their spouses as more of a roommate/friends Some are just staying married until their children are out of the house and then plan to divorce. If your wife depressed and/or overweight? She sounds like she may have body issues and or low self esteem. If things don't change and you can't accept the situation your only choice may be to divorce but try everything you can before you get to that point to try to change the situation with your wife.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> My wife does know. I told her all the details. I was unsure if this was the best thing for her. but, I was aware of the dangers to my career from the discussions. That is what opened the door to discussion with my wife about how important a better sex life was to me. Yes, I realize this EA is exactly what lead to the greater dissatisfaction with my sex life.
> 
> But now, I am not sure how to make the fantasy go away.


You telling her was really brave, I think it also really shows a desire to improve your relationship with your wife. I'm impressed by your honesty.

As for how to make the fantasy go away. Well, that is tough. When it comes to fantasizing about the employee. You are a grown up. Put that genie back in the bottle. Realize it was a fantasy that is much better in your head than it ever would be in the cold light of day. 

The stories your employee was telling you were meant to get you worked up. It was a game for her, a power trip. And you fell for it and acted on it. Even if every word were true, the nature of your relationship, and the fact that you are both married makes it seem more like a manipulative ploy than genuine sharing.

It is healthy to have a fantasy life that fuels your sex life in an appropriate way. You know that it is not appropriate. It sounds like there is a lot of work to be done to get your marriage to the point where you can share fantasies and have your wife be an involved interested partner in your sex life. 

I know that is not a quick fix answer to anything. I wish I could give you that. What I can say is that you are to be commended for the way your are handling this. Honestly, my 20+ year marriage is over because of his workplace affair with a subordinate. 

Read the advice you have been given. Read the books that have been recommended.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> There are so few things we enjoy together. And now that seems even more exaggerated that I am frustrated. We watch TV together, although she falls asleep around 8p on couch. So, I watch alone. We go out to dinner once per week...with her sister. That's all we do together other than managing life.


I am right there with you, buddy.

I wish I had a great answer for this.

My theory is that you've got to treat her as if you're starting a new relationship. Have fun with her, but don't go overboard on the romance (you wouldn't if you were casually dating someone other than her).

Do some new fun things. Invite her along. If she doesn't want to go, then go by yourself.

Let her see that you are having a fun life and that she can join in.

She has to be willing to have fun too.

If she can't even tag along in a fun way, then I think she's given up the chance of keeping you. You can't drag her along, just give her the chance in a new context.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Also- I understand how you got into the situation with the woman at work. If that happened to me, I can't say I would be able to resist indulging it either.

However, your wife certainly lost trust for you because of this. So if she has some initial reluctance to you when you reach out to her, you've got to cut her some slack for this.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> But now, I am not sure how to make the fantasy go away.


You're not going to be able to until you go no contact, which is the same advice other people having affairs are given all the time. You are in the fog. Ever heard of it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> There are so few things we enjoy together. And now that seems even more exaggerated that I am frustrated. We watch TV together, although she falls asleep around 8p on couch. So, I watch alone. We go out to dinner once per week...with her sister. That's all we do together other than managing life.


None of that counts as couples quality time.

So she does not like water.

What about dancing? 

What about even gardening together?

There are a lot of things that a couple can do.

.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Happilymarried25 said:


> There are a lot of women who aren't getting as much sex as they want from their partners. Google Sexless Marriage and Dead Bedroom and it's about half women and half men complaining they aren't getting enough sex or not the kind they want on the forums. It was a surprise to me too as I thought I was the only one.
> 
> I think tiptoeing around the situation and not upsetting the applecart is not the best way to approach this. You deserve to be fulfilled sexually and not have to live this way for the rest of your life. You should continue to talk to your wife about it, maybe suggest counseling. Don't have an affair or get a sex buddy and cut off all personal contact with your co worker. If your wife wants to stay married she needs to take this seriously and get out of her comfort zone.
> 
> From reading the forums I have mentioned there isn't a high success rate of couples staying together. Resentment builds and after not having sex for months or years some just loose the desire and think of their spouses as more of a roommate/friends Some are just staying married until their children are out of the house and then plan to divorce. If your wife depressed and/or overweight? She sounds like she may have body issues and or low self esteem. If things don't change and you can't accept the situation your only choice may be to divorce but try everything you can before you get to that point to try to change the situation with your wife.


You are right that I have been trying not to upset the apple cart, tiptoeing around it, until 5 months ago. This is now the focal point of the marriage. My youngest will be leaving for college next fall. That scares me. That we have stayed together because of the kids. That without them to tend to, we will realize we have been cohabitating for many years. I think my big problem now is, despite all the sound advise, I am not sure I feel like trying anymore. I am not sure the effort is worth it.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> You telling her was really brave, I think it also really shows a desire to improve your relationship with your wife. I'm impressed by your honesty.
> 
> As for how to make the fantasy go away. Well, that is tough. When it comes to fantasizing about the employee. You are a grown up. Put that genie back in the bottle. Realize it was a fantasy that is much better in your head than it ever would be in the cold light of day.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the compliment of thinking me brave. It was a really difficult conversation. But, I do think it forced the issue and at least brought the issue to the surface.

I can honestly say that the fantasy has lessened in the past couple of days thanks to the replies I have received. They are helping to remind me of what is truly important in life.

But in defense of my employee, she really wasn't telling me these things to get me worked up. She was venting and my questions encouraged her to tell more. She didn't realized how naive I was sexually, despite being more experienced many other areas of life. She had no idea she was seducing me. She has never since ventured down that road, nor have I. But we do still share personal information.

I am sorry for you to hear that your husband did act on his fantasy. I hope you are happier now than before.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> I am right there with you, buddy.
> 
> I wish I had a great answer for this.
> 
> ...


I feel like I have already done this time and time again. Over the years, I have proposed numerous activities for us both. I have tried to find her interests. Nothing has lasted. I have gone my own way to have my own fun.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> Also- I understand how you got into the situation with the woman at work. If that happened to me, I can't say I would be able to resist indulging it either.
> 
> However, your wife certainly lost trust for you because of this. So if she has some initial reluctance to you when you reach out to her, you've got to cut her some slack for this.


yeah, I still worry that if my wife didn't trust me and decided to set me up...say by sending some hottie to hit on me...even if I KNEW that it was a set up, I probably couldn't stop myself.:scratchhead:

It did take a few weeks after we had the first few talks 5 months ago, for her to be able to feel comfortable enough to be intimate again. It took a few more weeks for things to get back to normal or to try new things.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Zanne said:


> CDF, I've been reading your thread with interest and here's why...
> 
> I have been involved with a married man for the past two years (I am married as well) and I imagine that he could have written your original post. Very similar issues. But let me tell you this: an affair will NOT solve your problem. It is a temporary fix - like a drug - for your sex starved spirit. DO NOT DO IT!!
> 
> ...


Wow! This hits hard...in a good way. I do feel sex starved. I have thought of my employee as a drug. Might feel good at first but dangerous later. I want so badly for that partner who prioritizes, values, is passionate about sex like I am. 

I do think much about what my kids would think. I know you are correct about the order of things. I just can't even think about the D word. I wish I was Shallow Hal and could just be hypnotized into thinking everything was perfect.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Thank you for the compliment of thinking me brave. It was a really difficult conversation. But, I do think it forced the issue and at least brought the issue to the surface.
> 
> I can honestly say that the fantasy has lessened in the past couple of days thanks to the replies I have received. They are helping to remind me of what is truly important in life.
> 
> ...


I am doing pretty well considering, thank you.

My situation was different, because our sex life was still pretty good. I was certainly available and open to it if he wanted more. I keep myself in great shape and I took great care of the home and finances. 

His mistress/employee confided in him the same way. She flat out offered him a "no strings" affair. There were strings of course, and I found out and threw him out of our home and filed for divorce.

If he had just talked to me first, I would have done whatever I could to save our marriage. If I still could not make him happy I would have parted as his friend. Instead I had to pull the knife out of my back.

Keep taking the high road and remain honest with your wife. I wish you much happiness in the future, whatever that holds. 

Keep us posted.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> You're not going to be able to until you go no contact, which is the same advice other people having affairs are given all the time. You are in the fog. Ever heard of it?


Haven't heard of "the fog" but I can imagine what that means. I honestly think just the past couple of days of the TAM forum has greatly helped. I have reflected on some of the things I have been thinking even planning (i.e. opportunities to have more casual encounters with my employee) and now realize how stupid that would be. 

I will say though, that I am not planning on NO CONTACT. She is a valued employee and having a crisis of her own. AND again, not at all interested in me. We have a professional relationship (as we have had for all except a few days when this issue came up) like we have had for her 3 years of employment.

OK, now you can bash me for how dumb I am for thinking that.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> You are walking a dangerous line in talking to a female subordinate about your sex lives.
> 
> Especially since you are now obsessed with her.
> 
> ...


I think that you would be in more trouble if you let her go. Right now there is no sexual harassment, only conversation. Nothing can happen to you for doing that.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> None of that counts as couples quality time.
> 
> So she does not like water.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know there are a lot of things that couples can do. But we have found too few. During this "crisis" I started a journal. I was logging my thoughts, soul searching, research, plans etc. every couple of days. Maybe that's not a good thing because it lead me to also itemize the things we both like or don't like together. I have since deleted the journal and list as I had one day of clarity a few weeks ago where I saw it as only destructive. 

My point, however, is that although I can't recall the entire list right now, I know that the list of common likes was very short. The list of things I like that she doesn't was really long. 

For example, we are planning a cruise vacation for the summer. I want to ride ATVs, jet ski, snorkel, swim with turtles, take a mud bath, hike etc. She wont do most of that but will do scenic historic tours by bus. 

To her credit ,she doesn't stop me from doing what I like, she just doesn't want to do it with me. She has even gone as far as saying "I don't like to do that, but I like that YOU like to do it." I thought that was cute for a so long.

Now, I wonder what it would be like to have a partner who WANTED to do those things with me...26 years of things...including the one of most significance to these boards...SEX.

What must it be like to have someone who at the end of a stressful day, NEEDS to, WANTS to, is EXCITED to intertwine, entangle, rub, and get lost in an erotic world escaping those stresses, not being paralyzed by them?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

UMP said:


> Conceal,
> My experience would mirror yours in many respects. However, the last couple years (been married 23 years) I have had the best sex of my life. It's so good, I cannot even imagine it getting much better.
> I think one of the most important things was to learn to be a great lover. I'm talking about kissing every part of your wifes body, taking your time and letting your own O be an out of body experience that you're willing to share with your wife.
> 
> ...


Can you talk to my husband? ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

You need to pull back from relationship with valued employee. If she questions, just say you need to maintain professional relationship for the good of the company.

As you and others have said, you cannot put genie back in the bottle. You know there are women who want sex. Can you stay married for the rest of your life to current spouse knowing that?

Not a rhetorical question. I am staying married to my zero interest spouse (at least with me) despite knowing. But I am not trying to be happy. I an trying to pay for kids college which is not possible if we divorce while they are in school. You have to decide what your goal is. If it is happiness, good chance that cannot happen with current wife. Tough choices, but as Rush said "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Haven't heard of "the fog" but I can imagine what that means. I honestly think just the past couple of days of the TAM forum has greatly helped. I have reflected on some of the things I have been thinking even planning (i.e. opportunities to have more casual encounters with my employee) and now realize how stupid that would be.
> 
> I will say though, that I am not planning on NO CONTACT. She is a valued employee and having a crisis of her own. AND again, not at all interested in me. We have a professional relationship (as we have had for all except a few days when this issue came up) like we have had for her 3 years of employment.
> 
> *OK, now you can bash me for how dumb I am for thinking that*.



It isn't "dumb" but the problem is that without going no contact, you won't be able to stop fantasizing about her. If you want to lie and say you have stopped doing that, ok, but I'm sure it isn't true. I'm glad you realized that your contriving to make time alone with her wasn't a good idea, but your mind isn't going to stop with the rest of the fantasies.

You had specifically asked "how do I stop having these fantasies" and that was what I responded to. If you want to ignore this advice, you are likely going to end up screwing up big time somehow.

I'm sad for your employee that she is going through a crisis and her boss is having sexual fantasies about her. It really isn't fair to her and it is harassment, whether you think it is or not. Not wanting to let her go because she's a good employee is just your selfishness in disguise.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Now, I wonder what it would be like to have a partner who WANTED to do those things with me...26 years of things...including the one of most significance to these boards...SEX.
> 
> What must it be like to have someone who at the end of a stressful day, NEEDS to, WANTS to, is EXCITED to intertwine, entangle, rub, and get lost in an erotic world escaping those stresses, not being paralyzed by them?


These thoughts are normal, but since you've wrapped them all around your employee they become an emotional affair. If they were not tied to a particular person, they would be something you could use to motivate yourself toward change. But since you are hung up on the employee, you are just going to keep trying to find ways to put her in your sex life (in your mind at least).


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm sad for your employee that she is going through a crisis and her boss is having sexual fantasies about her. It really isn't fair to her and it is harassment, whether you think it is or not. Not wanting to let her go because she's a good employee is just your selfishness in disguise.


she came to him and talked about her sex problems. Come on, she is not a baby, she knew what and why she was doing it


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> I think that you would be in more trouble if you let her go. Right now there is no sexual harassment, only conversation. Nothing can happen to you for doing that.


I agree- definitely don't fire her.

I dont agree that nothing can happen short of that.

All she needs to do is tell one person in the office and then rumors start.

Or she tells her husband and he tries to f- with OP.

If push comes to shove, she will lie to make herself look like a victim. That's what people do.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

CDF- I feel you on the not having any common interests thing.

Consider this though: 

Does it just feel like you can't enjoy anything together (because your relationship is so bad) or can you actually not enjoy anything together?

I wonder if you could find a way to grow closer if your wife would start to want to branch out and do more things with you just to be with you.

Maybe not, but worth considering.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> she came to him and talked about her sex problems. Come on, she is not a baby, she knew what and why she was doing it


Guess what a judge would say to her if she filed a sexual harassment suit against him?

"You win!" not "oh come on, you are not a baby".

By the OP's own admission, she WASN'T trying to flirt with him or get him to have sexual fantasies about him. She was confiding in him as a friend. He is the one who then became obsessed with her....these are his own words.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> She was confiding in him as a friend. He is the one who then became obsessed with her....these are his own words.


not buying this. confiding private, sexual problems to her male supervisor? At least she was enjoying the attention, and was doing this on purpose, toying with him. She is not innocent party here. He took the bait - and that's a potential problem.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Guess what a judge would say to her if she filed a sexual harassment suit against him?
> 
> "You win!" not "oh come on, you are not a baby".
> .


Correct.

There is an inherent power inbalance.

It really doesn't matter how OP interprets it. It happened and she can easily spin it in a way that makes her into a victim.

Maybe she's really a victim or maybe not, but to a third party the power inbalance is what will draw the focus.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> not buying this. confiding private, sexual problems to her male supervisor? At least she was enjoying the attention, and was doing this on purpose, toying with him. She is not innocent party here. He took the bait - and that's a potential problem.


I'm not sure why you feel the need to sl*t shame her, but a judge would not see it that way at all, and neither did the OP. The OP acknowledges that HE was out of line.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> But, 5 months ago, something happened that changed it all. An attractive female employee, who over time had told me more personal stories, vented to me that she was dissatisfied with her sex life. Newly married and 33 y.o., she was not having sex nearly as much as she wanted and that when they did it was very “vanilla”. Over time, I learned more, and one day she talked about how she once had a stripper pole to dance for a boyfriend, that she and one boyfriend once did it 13 times in one day, that she was mad because her new husband didn’t know how to use her toys, that she needed sex at least several time per week and maybe even a couple of times per day. She assured me that she knew lots of women who felt the same as she about sex and that she and some friends even competing for a rubber duck trophy that went to whoever had the most erotic experience. *And, no she wasn’t hitting on me. She was confiding in me as her boss.*
> 
> (snip)
> 
> ...


From the OP's first post.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not sure why you feel the need to sl*t shame her, but a judge would not see it that way at all, and neither did the OP. The OP acknowledges that HE was out of line.


this is not shaming anyone. Just assigning responsibility to an adult person, that's all.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Zanne said:


> BTW, what's the story behind your username? Can you explain the significance of the words "Conceal Don't Feel"? Just curious.


Well I am, admittedly, a huge Disney fan. It's from Frozen and I feel it relates to the fact that I have been hiding my true feelings. I have been, and will likely continue to, place her happiness, the family, my children ahead of my own happiness. It's like Holdingontoit says in post #52. My happiness is not the most important goal right now.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> CDF- I feel you on the not having any common interests thing.
> 
> Consider this though:
> 
> ...


I don't think the relationship is bad. We don't fight. We are both very passive. She is an exceptional caring, loving, compassionate and tolerant person. I have said to many people that she could have stayed married to anyone. It's certainly NOT that I don't enjoy her company. I mean I am not annoyed just by being with her. I like her. We just don't enjoy the same interests.

Now that I am unable to repress my sexual frustration, I think I am dissecting all aspects of our relationship; reflecting on how little we really do together.

This is a new piece to the story. Since we talked openly about everything, she is now aware of how important sex is to me and she is, therefore, more inviting. That's admirable, I realize.

But, I am now even less attracted to her. Why? I am not sure.

I think maybe that before (when I didn't have a good understanding of what is possible) I repressed my frustration feeling it wasn't her fault that I wasn't having regular sex. Now, I think I blame her. 

I also know that my lower attraction to her is largely physical. This may be brutally honest, but since she has been more inviting, that included some early evening opportunities (before dark). I find fat to be very unattractive. We had not been intimate for decades in the light of day. She "feels' better than she looks. I struggled to finish and last time this happened, I couldn't finish. That has never happened to me before.

I strongly suspect that if she would even just loose weight and take a greater interest in her physical appearance that would help.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I “had the talk” with my wife. It lasted months. It took her a long time to accept what I was telling her. I can’t say that she understands. But, she has tried to accommodate me. At first I thought I just needed sex more often. We agreed to more frequent encounters. That was not satisfying knowing she didn’t really want to but was doing it for me. Then, I thought I needed sex to be more sexy. We bought a toy. Fun, at first, but not the solution. I then believed that the issue was her lack of desire. She loves me unconditionally, a very admirable quality. She is willing to have sex with me because she loves ME. *I wanted her to have sex with me because she wants SEX*. She took DHEA talked to her Ob/Gyn. No better. After over four months, little has changed. More so, I now have reflected on, thought about and dissected the issue to where I don’t think I find sex with her to be desirable. The more I think about it, the more I am realizing that I just don’t find my wife very desirable, because I know she does not find me desirable.


I've never quite gotten the bolded part. So, some guys don't want a woman to have sex with them because a woman loves them? They want women to have sex with them because the women want SEX? But, if it's just the SEX they're after, there are probably other, better looking, more attractive guys out there for them to have sex with. She's likely to have sex with anyone she feels attracted to. If that's how it's going to work then the top 10% of guys will be servicing 10 women apiece and the other 90% of the guys will have to go solo.

Sorry, I'll take "sex because she loves ME".


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> I've never quite gotten the bolded part. So, some guys don't want a woman to have sex with them because a woman loves them? They want women to have sex with them because the women want SEX? But, if it's just the SEX they're after, there are probably other, better looking, more attractive guys out there for them to have sex with. She's likely to have sex with anyone she feels attracted to. If that's how it's going to work then the top 10% of guys will be servicing 10 women apiece and the other 90% of the guys will have to go solo.
> 
> Sorry, I'll take "sex because she loves ME".


I understand and respect your point. I have lived for 30 years accepting and appreciating that. Since I don't have 10 women lined up, I am sure I am not in the top 10%. I have realized that for a long time. I am lucky to have a woman who loves me. Let alone one who loves me and is willing to do things with me that she really doesn't want to do.

But, having recently being exposed to alternative perspectives (through these forums and other sources), can't I have both?

Can't I have a woman who both loves me and desires me?

That's why I am exploring these boards for opinions. I have never had both. Some of you have. I am listening to your experiences and trying to learn from them.

Would I rather have a woman who loves me but does not have sex with me?
OR women who will have sex with me, but don't love me?

Which is better?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Can't I have a woman who both loves me and desires me?
> 
> Would I rather have a woman who loves me but does not have sex with me?
> OR women who will have sex with me, but don't love me?
> ...


You can definitely have both.

Maybe you can have both with your wife, maybe not.

I think there are two key questions:

1. Are you willing to settle for something other than both? Is that what you are doing now?

2. If you're not willing to settle for something less, what are you going to do about it?

If you choose to do nothing, then you are basically settling.


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