# Emotionally lost



## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

My wife and I have been married for nearly 15 years. This is the second marriage for me and the third for her. She does not work outside the home but does do transcription work from home and makes some income, more or less when she wants to. 

My family has been under a great deal of stress for several years. The death of my father, uncle as well as two adult kids who have had a hard time finding their way in life, and a younger son that has had periodic violent fits. The list goes on and on. We had not gone to church in several years and about three years ago we began to go again. Due to fits from our younger son in which he would throw things, yell and become totally uncontrollable (starting about 10 yrs of age), we began to see our pastor for counseling. He and his wife had become friends that we had socialized with and I had learned that his Master’s degree was in Marital and Family therapy from a recognized program. As we became closer to them, he and my wife began to text. He began to joke in front of me and others at the church about how often they texted. She began to invite scores of people to church and he began to praise her from the pulpit. We were in a couples Sunday School class and I thought it would help us grow together and deal with the stress. The pastor asked her to teach a children’s class and she agreed without talking to me. She also signed up for a Sunday night study at the pastor’s home. She started volunteering for the church at the food bank twice a week and at the church often, all without taking my feelings or our financial position into consideration. The church is about 20 miles from where we live and every trip costs a couple of gallons of gas. 

I began to occasionally (every few months) drink to excess and tell her what I thought about her and the pastor. That I thought he was running our home and had more say than I. I would get angry and call her names. I would yell and slam doors and tell her how I resented the sex life we had lost. The pastor told her that the next time I did that she should take the kids and spend the night at his house. She did. I posted on facebook that he was having an emotional affair with my wife. She went into my FB and deleted the posts. I think she withdrew from me more emotionally and this was my fault, but I didn’t feel like there was much left for me. 

Our sex life had also gone away. Not totally, but mostly. It was waning before I drank too much and became angry with her. We own many types of vibrators and I have always made it a priority to please her first. We had been having regular sex, but also frequently had oral sex and a couple of times a month we would even have anal sex and my wife had began to orgasm from clitoral stimulation during anal and tell me she was really beginning to enjoy it. The oral and anal stopped. She began to keep the ringer on her cell phone turned off. She began to confer with the pastor about things that she previously would have consulted me about concerning the rearing of our children. I felt like she was totally withdrawing from me emotionally. She volunteered to work with children on Wednesday night, adding to her commitments away from me. 

Before all of this we had purchased a nice fifth wheel and traveled some weekends. Now, it is harder to plan a weekend to go and it has been sitting since June 2012. I think it has only been out a couple of times in the last two years.

We are now in counseling with a psychologist and things are better, but I think she is emotionally available to me more as a friend. She no longer goes to church on Sunday night and works in the church office less. She still teaches on Sunday and Wednesday and volunteers for the church at the food bank. 

She has been telling me for the last year that she no longer texts the pastor often, only his wife. At the same time, she would omit mentioning the times she would see him and visit with him. She began to delete texts from her cell phone. She goes through my cell and asks about every conversation I have with anyone, yet she is hiding her relationship with him. I had asked several times for the password to our cell account and she always ignored the request. About a month and a half ago, I was able to get it. They text to or from about 330 times a month and have about 20-30 short conversations a month on her cell. This made me extremely ill. I drank and posted on FB again that the pastor was having an emotional affair with my wife. Stupid behavior. I just don’t know where to turn. My wife admitted to me that she has had her emotional needs met by him, that she does things like invite people to church just to tell him about it and get his praise. But, when we met with our counselor a week later, she denied having told me that and has changed her story. 

Sex has gotten a little better, we have vaginal sex here and there and occasionally oral, maybe once a month. She isn’t interested in trying anal and more often than not, she usually won’t let me use a vibrator on her or go down on her. She doesn’t seem to want to be pleased herself and that puzzles me. She often brings up sex and seems to be initiating, but only when the kids are around or it isn’t a possibility. On week nights, she will delay going to bed and wait until I give up on sex and am exhausted. I don’t trust her emotionally. 

She isn’t interested in visiting other churches or in ending the relationship with the pastor and his wife. I think he is still her “go to guy” for issues with the family and I should be that person. I take responsibility for my drinking too much. The blame for that lies on me. We just came back from a cruise and took our kids. I don’t feel any better coming back than when I left. I don’t think she is mine emotionally. Any suggestions?


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## SecretTears (Jul 18, 2010)

I think you both need to go into proper counseling, both individual and MC and NOT with the pastor/church. Doesn't sound like your current counselor has been very helpful. There seem to be a lot of unresolved and undiscussed issues that are leading to both of you resenting each other and her feeling that you are not meeting her emotional needs. While there may have been an affair that is obviously causing a lot of problems in your M, from your post there seem to be a TON of other issues that you both need to deal with (seems like you resent that she isn't making enough money but is spending time and money volunteering, that you don't have a good sex life anymore, you acknowledge that you drink and it seems that you both need help coping with the deaths in the family and the kids. 

Good luck!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Read Married Man Sex Life and do the 180.

Expose more than you have already. Speak to the pastor and tell him you are going public with the affair.

STOP DRINKING. You need to keep the moral high ground during this and getting drunk won't help.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

No decent counselor or pastor would suggest a troubled wife come spend the night at his place. Totally inappropriate. I even have trouble with an alleged counselor getting and receiving frequent text messages from a client. This guy either has designs on your wife or he has deplorable judgement.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

There is no pastor on the planet that A) should be getting in the middle of a family like this. B) No pastor should ever invite another mans wife due to issues like the above unless there is abuse involved. Was there abuse involved.
c) No pastor should be singling out one woman from the pulpit that's not what it is about. If your whole family is recovering then yes you bring up the whole family. 

It is obvious that there is atleast and Emotional Affair going on here. and that The pastor is likely a dangerous person for her to be around. There is likely a good chance this guy could be doing this to other people. You need to stop drinking though. That is not going to help you or your family. You have a marriage to save and adding drunken fits to the mix is not going to help you out. You need to be calm, cool, and level headed. You need to tell your wife that you appreciate what the pastor did to help the family in the past. But at this point the man has become toxic and is ruining your marriage. 
Pastors are just men with collars they can get in over there head just like anyone else. They can have affairs just like anyone else. The only problem is people get it in their heads that pastors are these holy men that are incorruptible. That is far from the truth. 

You need to leave this church and you need to tell your wife that it is you or him. You need to tell her that what this pastor is doing is wrong. That if she will not listen to you that you will be forced to go to the elders of the church (if they have them) or to the executive pastor ( the pastor that basically runs the church business) and explain the situation. If you get these men involved it will be very beneficial as they can usually call the for the pastors resignation or at least tell him to knock it off or there will be consequences.
You don't have to be the center of the churches attention and the matter can be resolved. Be sure to bring evidence with you to these men as they won't just take your word for it.
for example text message records, phone records, any inappropriate and any evidence that you can dig up. Right now you need to start really digging because the EA, i think probably PA, at this point will not stop. 
Gather as much evidence as you can right now. Because I agree you are not crazy and something sinister is definitely going on.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Sorry for being blunt, but how do you know it's only your wife's "emotional needs" and not physical ones being met by this pastor? He sounds like scum and your wife's antics seem more like those of someone who is physically cheating. But I could be wrong.

Is any of her time unaccounted for? Is she at church events w/o you a lot?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

There was another pastor thread some months ago.

I hope you wake up and do all the things necessary to save your marriage.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

There's way more into this.
Become a PI; keylogger, GPS, specially VARs.

But man, I don't get that MC, after all this, how can possible allow her to keep doing it right under your nose, at plain sight. It's incredible. But worse is you keep swalling the cool aid. Man, better draw the line in the sand:
- NC letter
- Quitting the church altogether
- Complete transparence 
- Full disclosure
... or divorce.
No barganing, no time to think, no grey areas...

This or wake up of the denial state and fully embrace the cuckold lifestly.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

I do have to quit getting drunk, I agree. I only had two drinks on one night on the cruise. I can go for weeks or months or forever without it, I think I have used it to get back at her. She also drinks, more often than I, but the pastor doesn't get that.

I think our counselor is good, but he is hard to get into and expensive. We have only been to him about five times over several months and I think things are unfolding for him.

I don't resent that my wife doesn't work. I do resent when she volunteers at the food bank and the church and doesn't have time to cook or clean or keep up with our bills when she spends so much time in things that would please the pastor instead of taking care of the home. I wind up planning the meals and cooking most of them and I have a full time occupation. I would rather she get a full time job than immerse herself in things associated with this church and not have time to take care of the family. But, she does very well transcribing from home when she does it and I only want our family to be her first priority again

There has not been any physical abuse in our marriage. 

I don't think that he would involve himself with her physically nor that she would with him. His wife is not a priority for him, not treated special, I don't think my wife would want him. I know I could be wrong. She does go to church a lot without me. And is involved in church things here and there during the week and on my workday.

I couldn't go public. The fb posts were not there long, but I received no support and some backlash. I rely on that small community for my business. I would lose a ton of important accounts if I went public with what I have. I would be better off ending my marriage - at least I could support myself. The town is only about 3500 people and this is the largest church.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

DallasCowboyFan said:


> I don't think that he would involve himself with her physically nor that she would with him. His wife is not a priority for him, not treated special, I don't think my wife would want him.


That is *A HUGE ASSUMPTION*! Based on just the little info you've given thus far, I can't see how you could possibly come to that conclusion.

Let's take what we know:

1) Your sex life has gone downhill
2) She's lying to you about her secret communications w/him
3) She spends lots of time w/him w/o you around
4) She's emotionally replaced you w/him
5) She lied to the MC
6) She stayed with him.

As far as affairs go, this looks really bad. He is a man with urges. She is a woman with lots of free time emotionally connecting with him (self admittedly) ... this is what typically drives women's sexual desire btw. You need to wake up!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

There are certain things you must do and must think about in order to quash this situation and bring it to a head...to bring it to it's natural conclusion. There are patterns of behaviour that we all fit, to a tee, whether we are the betrayer or the betrayed. And the way you deal with this will ensure the best outcome possible for whichever conclusion this takes. 

First you need to think if you want the truth of what is going on. If so, it is time to get into spy mode. First, where is she when she has these conversations with him? Plant a VAR, voice activated recorder, in the room, car, wherever. Make sure it is well hidden. And test it 1st to make sure your settings are correct etc. 

You have the number of texts, can you install spyware on the phone to then discover the content? Settings again must be set so not to arouse suspicion. What phone is it? You may be able to retrieve deleted texts. 

This is also a tricky situation as it seems whatever they ate conducting, it is either in his home or in the church. Hopefully more ideas from others will come. 

Big one: Do NOT show your hand, do NOT tell her ANYTHING you find until it is absolute proof. 

I have to go now so cannot get into further detail but this is a good start. 

You will get good advice here, listen to it if you want to move forward and discover what is going on. 

If a post has many 'likes' on it, definitely listen to it. There are certain experts on here, knowledgeable. Listen to them. Please don't end up like so many others who failed to listen to what other more experienced people could see so clearly. And this set their situation back MASSIVELY.

I have a couple of threads in mind. I will try and post them so you can read and see and learn from their experience.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

DallasCowboyFan said:


> I do have to quit getting drunk, I agree. I only had two drinks on one night on the cruise. I can go for weeks or months or forever without it, I think I have used it to get back at her. She also drinks, more often than I, but the pastor doesn't get that.
> 
> I think our counselor is good, but he is hard to get into and expensive. We have only been to him about five times over several months and I think things are unfolding for him.
> 
> ...


You are 100 percent right the family comes before church. If she spouts off some garbage about I am doing God's work then please tell her that she is using the bible to justify actions. The bible tells us the the family is very important. That the only thing that comes before family is God not the church or the food bank , and God wouldn't cause harm to a marriage. 
Your wife is obviously in a fog.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

badbane said:


> You are 100 percent right the family comes before church. If she spouts off some garbage about I am doing God's work then please tell her that she is using the bible to justify actions. The bible tells us the the family is very important. That the only thing that comes before family is God not the church or the food bank , and God wouldn't cause harm to a marriage.
> Your wife is obviously in a fog.


Doing "GOD's" work is fulfilling your duty to your spouse, your family and to your employer.

Then again, I pertain to no denomination or sect, I'm catholic, so I'm very biased against other religions/sects and the use of "church" ambiguously. I do understand your point BB.


Dallscowboyfan, 

This seems all good and innocent on the outside, but it feels dark and evil on the inside. You need to do as previously suggested. 

The Healing Heart: The 180

Gather your thoughts, strengths, find your weaknesses and work on them.

Avoid alcohol at all times.

Alcohol affects your testosterone, besides the rest that you know of like temper, mood, judgement, etc etc. as it is a completely negative way to cope. 

Find positive ways to cope like, cooking/grilling a new meat dish, working out, running as fast as you can for as long as you can and repeat.

Keep working hard on yourself, focus on yourself and perfect yourself so that you may know thyself and your weaknesses.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

What in the world did the text messages say ? You seen them.. But what did they say ?

Were they sexual in nature ? Was there any dirty talk ?


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> What in the world did the text messages say ? You seen them.. But what did they say ?
> 
> Were they sexual in nature ? Was there any dirty talk ?


It sounds like an EA, quasi PA.
:scratchhead:


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

I didn't see the text messages. Only the billing summary. It shows what messages were sent to and from and when. About 2/3rds are from my wife to the pastor. About 1/3rd from him to her. If I knew what they said I could figure out much more
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

With some phones you can retrieve the content of the deleted messages. Like the iphone.

Getting the content of the texts is a big piece of the puzzle.

I agree with everyone else. Stop the drinking. You have to control your temper. From now on you have to be cool, confident, decisive. Being perceived as a raving lunatic has zero benefit to you. It just pushes her further away and gives her more justification that what she's doing is okay.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The "pastor" doesn't pay much attention to his wife. He, however, invites your's to spend the night and exchanges text messages with her frequently. Presumably, this man has a penis. As he is a man, every straight man on earth can relate to what goes on between his ears. Rather than rule out the possibility that another man would like to have sex with your wife, it's safer to assume that most would do so, given the chance. Ok, so you've been drunk before. That description applies to most adult males and to basically the entire population of some European nations. There has only been one perfect man on this planet and they crucified him. The rest of us have flaws. If your wife requires a flawless husband to be faithful, she might as well fling herself from the nearest bridge or resign herself to being a spinster. Her bad choices are her responsibility and can't be laid at your feet.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Cowboy Fan

You need to listen to her phone conversations. Put a VAR in her car. Hide it well.

Also what type of cell phone does she use?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Well it certainly sounds like she's slipping away from you. Why did her two previous marriages fail? Do you know? (I mean actually know for a fact - rather than know 'because she said so')

You have to have come to Jesus talk with her. She is either in your marriage or she's out. Tell her that from your view she seems to want to be out. Tell her to stop playing games - like the game she plays of "wish we could have sex tonight but the darn kids are up" - 

She may or may not be having sex with the pastor. My guess is she is - but you don't seem to think so. I'll take you at your word. 

Regardless, she is very deeply emotional with him - that usually leads to sexual gratification. If it hasn't happened yet - it's on the drawing board. 

You need to do as Acabado suggested: VAR in the car. Gather evidence quietly - stop accusing and keep your eyes and ears open. Institute the 180 for your own betterment. 

Make a plan on what you want to do once the evidence is in - and I do believe you will find enough to establish she is on her way out - if she is, then help her along. But make a plan and stick to it.


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