# Found Out Husband Had an Affair



## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

4 days ago I found out my husband was having an affair with a woman he works with who he has been very close friends with over the last year or so. The physical side only started about a month ago, but 2 months ago I confronted him about his friendship with her and he confessed he thought he loved her. We talked and he said he knew it was wrong and it would pass, he wanted to refocus on us, so he cut off contact with her and really seemed like he was putting himself into our marriage. Things were really on track it seemed until a month ago when he became distant.

He told me he wants to leave to be with her, but I basically begged him to stay. So over the last 4 days he's been here, sleeping on the couch, playing with the kids, and treating me like a roommate. After the kids go to sleep he leaves and comes back only after I've gone to bed and sleeps on the couch.

Yesterday after he got home I confronted him and laid down some ground rules which included ending the affair, not communicating with her, and either she quits or he transfers in the company to the location near his family. He hasn't told me what his thoughts were with that, just contested some things I said I'd do to help ensure he was accountable, like tell his family or his boss. He hasn't left yet, but he hasn't said he'd stay either. He hasn't given me much of any answers besides he wants to leave and be with her. Anything he has said is classic affair fog stuff and rewriting our history together. I did try to initiate sex last night and he refused. 

I spoke to a counselor today who said I need to take the first steps to show I'm willing to move on, to be honest and less emotionally closed off. I've been told by others on another forum I should do a 180, kick him out, and start the process to divorce, but I'm not into that. The 180 wouldn't work for him and I don't want to divorce. I want to fight for our marriage.

I'm hoping to talk to him tonight, see what his thoughts and feelings are and if he will give us and our marriage the chance it deserves. But right now, I don't know how to talk to him about it. I'm thinking about contacting her husband too, but I'm not sure that won't have the opposite effect. If she's not laying her head down on a pillow with her husband, that means she is laying her head down on a pillow next to mine. I am working on an email to her to confront her about it.

He's supposed to be home any minute, but I don't know how to talk to him about what's going on. Any advice on reconciliation without 180 or divorce is appreciated.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Filing for divorce is not what will end the marriage. Finalizing a divorce will. Him choosing to not want to continue the marriage will.

Your job is to kick him off the fence. If you are unwilling to take any measures to do so, he will continue to blow off your demands because he knows the are empty.

In the meantime, you are continuing to enable his fence sitting.

Sorry you are here.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I don't think I'm enabling fence-sitting. I told him yesterday he had to cut off communication, she or he had to quit, and I'd tell his boss if he didn't. I'm crystal clear I want him to stay and so far he is in only the most technical sense. If anything he was off the fence and headed to a greener pasture but I convinced him to stay. 

I'm just not sure what to do now that he's still here. I don't know how to talk to him about what he's doing or if he's sticking to what I asked. I'm not sure how to get the ball rolling.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

You can't get the ball rolling. It is HIS choice whether he wants to be with you or her. Just like it is YOUR choice whether you want to tolerate being with a man like that. You can't do anything to control him or make his decision, and vice versa. If I were you I'd discuss with a counselor what you want for a marriage and if he isn't displaying those characteristics then I'd file for divorce. Thinking you can change his behavior by rationalizing and setting ground rules that he doesn't care about won't work.

Sorry you are here!


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

_"He told me he wants to leave to be with her, but I basically begged him to stay. So over the last 4 days he's been here, sleeping on the couch, playing with the kids, and treating me like a roommate. After the kids go to sleep he leaves and comes back only after I've gone to bed and sleeps on the couch."_

Why are you begging? Do you not see how that comes across as weak and desperate especially after your partner has said very clearly that he wants to leave. You need to be objective about the way you interact with your husband going forward. Nobody wants to be with someone who comes across as needy and desperate ESPECIALLY when they have some other hot body they're much more interested in. Yes you have a family and a long history together but if that were enough to get him back, you wouldn't be in this position now. 

_"Yesterday after he got home I confronted him and laid down some ground rules which included ending the affair, not communicating with her, and either she quits or he transfers in the company to the location near his family. He hasn't told me what his thoughts were with that, just contested some things I said I'd do to help ensure he was accountable, like tell his family or his boss. He hasn't left yet, but he hasn't said he'd stay either. He hasn't given me much of any answers besides he wants to leave and be with her. Anything he has said is classic affair fog stuff and rewriting our history together. I did try to initiate sex last night and he refused." _

You laid down ground rules. Do you really think he's going to take you seriously when you are begging him to stay? You're the one who's begging, why in the world would he care about your rules? You tried to have sex with your husband who has cheated on you, is ready to leave you and is not remorseful. Your actions come across as someone who has lost their own self-respect and is desperate for things to go back to the way they were. Again, objectivity will help you see your approach is extremely counter-intuitive. 

_"I spoke to a counselor today who said I need to take the first steps to show I'm willing to move on, to be honest and less emotionally closed off. I've been told by others on another forum I should do a 180, kick him out, and start the process to divorce, but I'm not into that. The 180 wouldn't work for him and I don't want to divorce. I want to fight for our marriage."_

You got excellent advice from a professional and others who likely have some experience with what you're dealing with right now. Fighting for your marriage does not equal to grovelling for a man who tells you he wants to leave. You are showing all the signs of weakness when you need to be displaying strength.

_"I'm hoping to talk to him tonight, see what his thoughts and feelings are and if he will give us and our marriage the chance it deserves. But right now, I don't know how to talk to him about it. I'm thinking about contacting her husband too, but I'm not sure that won't have the opposite effect. If she's not laying her head down on a pillow with her husband, that means she is laying her head down on a pillow next to mine. I am working on an email to her to confront her about it."_

You're going to write to her and tell her what exactly, I know you're sleeping with my husband, stop it? So she can go back to your husband and they can have an inside joke about your desperation? 
_
"He's supposed to be home any minute, but I don't know how to talk to him about what's going on. Any advice on reconciliation without 180 or divorce is appreciated."_

If you find any example of successful reconciliation with an unremorseful cheater or a visibly desperate betrayed spouse or without the 180 or any real threat of divorce, please share it and enlighten us. There seems to be no such monkey...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I do not understand why you still want him.

If my husband said those things to me, I would be on the phone to his parents and mine letting them know exactly what was going on. I would then file for divorce and plan on selling the house. 

Geez, OP. Have a little pride.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I'd respond to this thread, but you clearly wouldn't listen to what I'd have to say. 

One thing: 
Thousands of others have tried your plan, including me.
Have I mentioned I'm divorced?
And I doubt I would be if I'd have been a stronger person.

Either way I'm better off without the cheating anchor around my neck. You will be, too.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

Again, I've chosen to try and reconcile. I'd like some advice on that, not to be told I shouldn't want to and have no pride if I want him to stay.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Trust the process here. It may or may not result in your marriage being saved. But I think the right answer it to either have a good solid marriage or a good healthy divorce. Your kids deserve to be in a happy household whether it be with both parents or only one. Saving your marriage but being perpetually unhappy is not a good outcome imho.

Two things need to be done since your goal is to end the affair and save your marriage.

1) Expose. This makes the affair difficult for both of them. It puts other eyes on them, and it takes away some of the carefree fun. Exposure also has the OW's husband applying pressure, which helps end the affair.

2) File for divorce. Your state likely has free forms online you can use. Filing will shock him into the reality, maybe. In any case it makes the situation very clear to him that you won't stay in a marriage with a cheater. You can always stop the divorce process at any point. My recommendation is you consult with an atty to be sure you get your bases covered, especially since there are kids involved. Your filing becomes the baseline for any separation or divorce agreement, including financials and custody. You need to do the first filing properly, thus you need an atty. You can hire one by the hour just to advise and review paperwork.


If you don't do these things he has little motivation to end the affair or to work on the marriage. When he fears losing daily access to his kids and paying large amounts for child support then he may start to feel some reality.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I'd contact her husband. He won't be happy and might do his part to stop it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Fairchild said:


> Again, I've chosen to try and reconcile. I'd like some advice on that, not to be told I shouldn't want to and have no pride if I want him to stay.


Fairchild, JLD hasn't experienced the pain of infidelity and doesn't know you're neck deep in screwed up, horrible emotions. 

I'm not surprised at her comment, but were the genders reversed, she'd be asking you what you did to drive your spouse to cheating on you, lol.

The people that are advising you to file for divorce know you want to reconcile. They know how you feel, believe me. What you don't see is that detaching, filing for divorce, and being super strong and kicking your husband out and exposing him and his AP to everyone is the only chance you have of a true reconciliation.

Your plan, I hate to say, has been proven over and over again to be ineffective. One plain and simply CANNOT nice them back.

Listen. Listen. Listen some more.
Everything your emotions will make you do will drive your husband farther away from you. 
You begging him to stay is validating his subconscious idea that he's too good for you.

I'm so sorry this happened, but how you deal with it may define you for a few years.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

He's fence sitting. You have no chance of saving your marriage unless you do what the counselor recommended- be very clear in exactly what he will have to do to remain married to you, or you will move on.

There is no in between. There is no "asking his feelings" on the subject. This man is abusing you in the worst way possible. He is betraying his family. He does not care how you feel right now. He cares about himself and his ego kindles he's getting from the OW.

Tell him to tonight that in order to remain married to you he must:
-Send the OW a no contact letter.
-Send his boss and/or HR a transfer request effective immediately.
-Give you full transparency to ALL of his devices and whereabouts.
-Agree to never contact the OW again.
- Agree to no nights apart.

You must expose to family and close friends to get their support for you and your marriage. Expose to the OW family and friends. This will bring the affair into the light and help ensure it's ending- affairs thrive on secrecy. It also sends a very clear message that you are not a woman who will bear his deceit in your marriage and/or protect him from his shameful acts against you and your families.

This is the recommended course of action from Surving an Affair by Dr. Harley. I'd highly suggest downloading the book today. 

Depending on your children's ages, you may want to let them know in an age-appropriate way what is going on, especially if they see Dad on the couch. 

If your husband refuses or violates any of the above requirements, he must move out of the home so you can protect your mental health. In this case, you must explain why to your children so your husband cannot rewrite history and try to blame you.

"Dad has a girlfriend and it's not ok to be married and have a girlfriend at the same time."

I'm sorry you're going through this.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

It's going to be a very one-sided fight, and I'm sorry to say that at the moment you are on the losing team. 

He made his choice. The best thing you can do, for your own sanity and self-respect, is to honor it and kick him out. 

He's the OW's problem now.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

If reconciliation is the path that you will choose, I think that the consensus is that you have to be willing to lose it all to get it back .

Immediate necessity is to end the affair, fastest way to do so is:

1. Expose. Contact OW's husband. Expose to his family. Expose to his employer.
2. File. This will force him to react. Single fastest way to get him back. You don't have to finalize if he comes back.

No need to beg for him to stay etc... just end the affair first and then you can deal with how to (and if) you will reconcile.

There is probably way way more going on than you currently know.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Fairchild said:


> Again, I've chosen to try and reconcile. I'd like some advice on that, not to be told I shouldn't want to and have no pride if I want him to stay.


You may want to reconcile but you can't force your WH to do it. You can't reconcile on your own. I think what many are telling you is that if you do 180 and stop trying to win him back, he might just realize what he is going to miss out on. If you continue to do the pick me dance, he is never going to want to come back to the marriage.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Fighting for the marriage with a cheater is like tying your genitals to a southbound train and running north down the tracks.

It's a losing battle from the start and gets painful very fast.

The cheater gets the ego stroke of having two people wanting them. Why would they stop?

Think about how crazy you are about your husband when you were first dating and he asked for your hand. Nothing could keep you apart. You thought about him from the time you awoke until the time you went to bed. This is how he feels about the AP right now.

I disagree with the tell him what it takes to stay married thing. He wants out. Have him leave with your boo print on his ass. He'll respect you a helluva lot more.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

He's in a fog right now. Exposure brings chesters back to reality very quickly but the key is exposing both your husband and the OW. 

You need to act quickly before they spin their story first, managing to blame you.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I don't think I'm enabling fence-sitting. I told him yesterday he had to cut off communication, she or he had to quit, and I'd tell his boss if he didn't. I'm crystal clear I want him to stay and so far he is in only the most technical sense. If anything he was off the fence and headed to a greener pasture but I convinced him to stay.
> 
> I'm just not sure what to do now that he's still here. I don't know how to talk to him about what he's doing or if he's sticking to what I asked. I'm not sure how to get the ball rolling.


Is he staying for the right reason, though? Do you want your husband to stay with you, but his heart/mind is elsewhere? 

Making a lot of demands and threats might scare him to stay, but is that the kind of marriage you want? Those are the questions you need to ask yourself. 

I'm sorry this is happening in your life.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I don't care what his reasons are for staying right now. If he leaves I have zero chance of working with him on reconciling. Like the counselor said, if he's out the door and we've settled into the separation routine, it will be harder to get any meaningful face time with him. He will be gone.

If he stays, it means he's there and we can work on things. He doesn't have to like me right now, I expect we will both hate each other at various points. But in 5, 10, 20 years, hopefully we will be able to look back and say he came back for the wrong reasons but stayed for the right ones. 

Jessica and Re have good feedback. I'll admit I was thinking that exposing it wouldn't do much, but maybe it will. If he says he had contact with her today then I'll start screaming from the rooftops what's going on.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

"If he leaves I have zero chance of working with him on reconciling. Like the counselor said, if he's out the door and we've settled into the separation routine, it will be harder to get any meaningful face time with him."

No, this isn't true if you follow the steps outlined in Surviving an Affair. Exposure crashes the fantasy world cheaters live in pretty quickly. He'll soon realize that staying with the OW means he'll be dealing with a pile of trouble. Right now it's all fun and ego kibbles.

And if your goal is to keep your husband at any cost to yourself, including "share" him with the OW, then I can't help there.

But if you want to save your marriage, he must come to you hat in hand. It won't happen any other way. He will not see you as a prize to win if you play the pick-me dance and sacrifice any more of your self-respect.

You have to get him out of his fog. You should never have to convince someone to love you, but if you blow up his affair you have a shot at making him realize how destructive he's being. Otherwise, his affair can just continue underground.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Seeing him go hurts like hell. OP is willing to do anything to prevent that. 
Doing so will ensure he leaves. 

Serve him papers.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Sorry, but it sounds as if he's got you exactly where he wants you!

Methinks that he will now take his cheating activities far, far "underground!"

And even if it's still a remote possibility that you want to reconcile, he has to know that you mean business by your enlisting of a good family attorney and filing for divorce! 

By filing, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to follow through however, perchance things start to vastly improve between the two of you!*


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I don't think I'm enabling fence-sitting. I told him yesterday he had to cut off communication, she or he had to quit, and I'd tell his boss if he didn't. I'm crystal clear I want him to stay and so far he is in only the most technical sense. If anything he was off the fence and headed to a greener pasture but I convinced him to stay.
> 
> I'm just not sure what to do now that he's still here. I don't know how to talk to him about what he's doing or if he's sticking to what I asked. I'm not sure how to get the ball rolling.


I would just say to him, I want your answer to what I said. 
Personally I wouldn't put up with him living with me while seeing her and cheating. I would give him the choice, me or her and if he stays then he doesn't go out and see her and asks for an immediate transfer and tells his boss why. He can then ask for leave until the transfer happens. 
I also agree that her poor husband needs to be told. if they have children then maybe, just maybe, she wont leave him(unless he throws her out). 

I think you are being very strong. I have no idea how people can do this, especially when they have children. :crying: 

Its hard to see how he can leave to be with her when she is also married, unless she is also going to leave her family. People are such selfish idiots.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It's all about their "happiness"....
They've got to be "true to their feelings". Vomitting.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Please... idk anyone who won their spouse back by chasing them like you are. You can't make him stop. Your best chance at saving your marriage is to expose and file. Your husband has no respect for you. Have some respect for yourself at least.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

He came home and I asked him if he had any thoughts on what I said yesterday. He said no. He said he still wanted to leave. When I asked if he had seen her today, he said he hadn't. Then I said we needed to solve this and the affair had to end. I asked him if he'd stay to give us a chance, a few weeks, a few months, something. He said no. Our marriage was over for awhile and he couldn't get past our issues. I told him I didn't accept that and that I wasn't ready to share our kids with her and I didn't want our kids to lose their family. He broke down and said I'd it wasn't for the kids he would have left awhile ago, he wasn't happy but he didn't know what to do about the kids.

After some back and forth he said he'd stay for the kids and agreed to what we talked about yesterday and the other stipulations somebody mentioned earlier. I told him that it meant he had to not see her and break off all contact and she'd have to quit or he'd have to transfer. He said that wasn't reasonable but he'd break things off with her. I said if he was serious he'd do it right then and there over the phone in front of me, which he did. I'm working on a letter to send her and her husband. I already told my family and his and I called them both out on Facebook so everybody knows.

He's home, he didn't go out (he wasn't going out to be with her anyway just avoid me and dealing with this), but after his call with her he didn't have much to say to me. He's in the spare room because he said he needs space. He's really upset so that's how I know this is real and final. He'll be sleeping in our bed tonight, the first time in about 6 or 7 months. He gave me his passwords to his iPad, forums, and email so I'm going through to find their texts and messages.

He's really taking this seriously, I can tell by how he's acting. I think if we can just get her out of work or move then we will have a real fighting chance.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I hope that it's going to be this easy. If he keeps no contact, he's an exception.

I will agree that if there's no contact, there's a chance for your marriage.
I do think once she's out of his head, he will see things differently.

I think the exposure is something you did right.
Youve made it hard for the affair to work now. 

That he called her and broke it off and gave you passwords and such is good, too.

However, she's at his job.
And, he has plainly said he Durant want to be in the marriage anymore.

It will be interesting how this progresses.

I do wish you the best of luck.

You do realize there's a chance they discussed this already and planned this outcome?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> I hope that it's going to be this easy. If he keeps no contact, he's an exception.
> 
> I will agree that if there's no contact, there's a chance for your marriage.
> I do think once she's out of his head, he will see things differently.
> ...


Yes to all of the above. He should have sent a No Contact letter that you previewed and agreed to, stating that he wants to work on his marriage with his wife and save his family.

His attitude of "only willing to stay for the kids" and staying in the spare room does not bode well, OP.

He is not coming to you remorseful and desperate to save your marriage. He's still working with the OW.

Is this really what you want? A marriage with a man who does not feel badly for abusing you? Can you really live knowing that he's not staying for you? 

I'd pack his bags now and change the locks. He needs to convince YOU this marriage is worth saving.

Again, I'm so very sorry.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> It's all about their "happiness"....
> They've got to be "true to their feelings". Vomitting.


yes totally sickening. :frown2:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> He came home and I asked him if he had any thoughts on what I said yesterday. He said no. He said he still wanted to leave. When I asked if he had seen her today, he said he hadn't. Then I said we needed to solve this and the affair had to end. I asked him if he'd stay to give us a chance, a few weeks, a few months, something. He said no. Our marriage was over for awhile and he couldn't get past our issues. I told him I didn't accept that and that I wasn't ready to share our kids with her and I didn't want our kids to lose their family. He broke down and said I'd it wasn't for the kids he would have left awhile ago, he wasn't happy but he didn't know what to do about the kids.
> 
> After some back and forth he said he'd stay for the kids and agreed to what we talked about yesterday and the other stipulations somebody mentioned earlier. I told him that it meant he had to not see her and break off all contact and she'd have to quit or he'd have to transfer. He said that wasn't reasonable but he'd break things off with her. I said if he was serious he'd do it right then and there over the phone in front of me, which he did. I'm working on a letter to send her and her husband. I already told my family and his and I called them both out on Facebook so everybody knows.
> 
> ...


This wont work unless they dont see each other any more, so one of them must leave their work place. I admire you, you are being strong and fighting for your marriage. Marriage counseling may help a lot.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

He didn't sleep in the spare room or the couch last night. He slept in our bed. We also were intimate last night and this morning which is a really good sign.

I agree that he has to totally break things off with her, and he said he would. On their breakup call he said he was recommitting to me and the kids and there was no way their relationship could continue. I thought about them working this out together beforehand, but with how that call went and how genuinely gutted he was, I don't think they did. I've only seen him cry a few times and I've never seen him fall apart like he did on that call. The ending of it was very real to him. 

I know he's staying for the kids right now and that's ok. Staying for the kids gives us a chance to fix things so that eventually he stays for me because he's back in This marriage. The affair fog would have made it impossible for him to pick me as a reason for staying. They only thing that breaks through that is the kids. 

We will do counseling, he said he would. I've already seen somebody on my own. 

Today I'm sending her a letter and telling her husband and my husband is ag work and knows I'm contacting her, but not outing it to her husband. He says he won't see her and avoiding her should be really, really easy. I can't get him to agree to a transfer though since he'd be taking a pay cut and moving to a more expensive region. He says we just can't afford it. Looking at apartments last night and I did see they cost almost twice what we pay now for ours. I think it doesn't hurt to check. Once his boss knows, it may make it easier to go. 

I went through a lot last night and other than what I found before, I'm not finding anything really incriminating. Maybe he deleted stuff but their discussions don't seem disjointed at all and they only talked back and forth on one email chain. 

My emotions are all over the place but I feel better after last night. I think there's a real shot here and he seems committed to not contacting her. And everybody knows now so it'll make it harder for them to have moments alone like they did. I'm still on the fence on how much to ask him though. Is it better to know everything, the basics, or to move on?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You can't force him to choose.

You can help make the OW a less desirable option.

That said, it is apparent you are unwilling to pursue any course of action that risks a marriage that is already dead.

One more thing: get tested for STD's. Affairs are notorious for unprotected sex.

Good luck, OP.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Fairchild said:


> He didn't sleep in the spare room or the couch last night. He slept in our bed. We also were intimate last night and this morning which is a really good sign.
> 
> I agree that he has to totally break things off with her, and he said he would. On their breakup call he said he was recommitting to me and the kids and there was no way their relationship could continue. I thought about them working this out together beforehand, but with how that call went and how genuinely gutted he was, I don't think they did. I've only seen him cry a few times and I've never seen him fall apart like he did on that call. The ending of it was very real to him.
> 
> ...


When my wife had her affair I asked for no details whatsoever. Having see the heartache and misery of some TAM members who did ask for full disclosure and who got exactly what they thought they wanted, well... I'm glad I did not ask for details.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I'm at a point now where things have settled down and I have a chance to think. I have so many questions, but I worry asking will cause him to reminisce about the experience. I want answers, but not if it means he starts thinking about what happened fondly.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Fairchild said:


> I'm at a point now where things have settled down and I have a chance to think. I have so many questions, but I worry asking will cause him to reminisce about the experience. I want answers, but not if it means he starts thinking about what happened fondly.


Just knowing my wife had her affair was enough for me.

However, we are still together.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Until he can see that all the suffering was caused by his errant desires and poor choices, the other path will always be tempting. Somewhere, some way, he needs to see that his "not happy for a long time" is more about his fall, than the marriage's fall.

Humility is an incredible 2x4... once seen at face value, he will have an incredible amount of remorse to deal with, anybody conscious of the extent of pain they delivered like that will. In order to grow from such, we have to work through it as it stands. You may feel you want to try to soften it for him because you will see his pain in it as well, but it may be best to remember that while you both hurt, there is ownership in his actions and he needs to be able to come to terms "un-sugarcoated" so he can fully understand how detrimental the way he went about his desire was.

I applaud your forgiving heart, please remember that in our own humility that we cannot set aside some pride without reinforcing it with something else, such as boundaries. You have set them well to start, but there may be a time he falters as he juggles his emotions why he stumbled to begin with... if he cannot see your boundaries as clearly as you, and the outcome of crossing them, then his line of unmindful departure may trip, and trip again as he relearns to respect himself.

Respect is so important here... if he cannot have it for himself, he cannot have it for you and I see this as a first hurdle. If you can work together to show it's value, that it is always available with the right mind, that we can all be worthy of it even in times of coming to terms and understanding our incredibly poor choices, then there will be clarity of all he has to commit to fix this.

It can be done... we all fall, it's how we pick ourselves up that makes the difference.

Peace be with you.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Fairchild said:


> I'm at a point now where things have settled down and I have a chance to think. I have so many questions, but I worry asking will cause him to reminisce about the experience. I want answers, but not if it means he starts thinking about what happened fondly.


You are relieved now because he's back in your bed, but unfortunately you are in a false R. You rationalize that this is better than risking your marriage by taking the advice you've been given. But the advice was meant to give you the best chance for the optimum "outcome" for you. Either divorce or R with a fully committed, genuinely remorseful husband. 

As time goes by and your relief dissipates, you will likely realize what a false R means for you. 

Never the less, I hope you are one of those rare BS's who can defeat the odds and eventually wind up with a healthy, happy marriage. If so, come back and tell us about it. We don't see it very often.

Best of luck.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

The odds are strongly against this working out long term, but I wish you lots of luck.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> He didn't sleep in the spare room or the couch last night. He slept in our bed. We also were intimate last night and this morning which is a really good sign.
> 
> I agree that he has to totally break things off with her, and he said he would. On their breakup call he said he was recommitting to me and the kids and there was no way their relationship could continue. I thought about them working this out together beforehand, but with how that call went and how genuinely gutted he was, I don't think they did. I've only seen him cry a few times and I've never seen him fall apart like he did on that call. The ending of it was very real to him.
> 
> ...


You are a strong lady, good for you. 
I would be very unhappy that they are still working together, surely one of them could move to another department or something? It will be very hard to do this if he is seeing her daily, and how can you trust them if they are working in the same place and can go for lunch together etc? Maybe his boss can suggest something? 

Its up to you if you want to know the details. Personally I am the sort of person who cant accept things and move on unless I know the full truth, but some people seem to prefer not knowing. I so hope that he keeps his word, but the MC may well help keep things on track. 

I do think her husband needs to know what sort of woman he is married to. He may of course end their marriage which may make her more determined to have your husband, but he may also stay with her if the affair stops. Either way he will be devastated. We can only hope she leaves her job.

Does she also have children? 
I also think that you both need to get tested for STD's asap. If she has done this once she may have done it before.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Not outing the OW to her husband? 

That is such a completely bad idea. You should out her to her husband because it's the right thing to do. He has a right to know, just like you do.

And you need him as an ally to put a stop to this affair. 

Your thoughts on how "gutted" he is..................... YOU ARE WRONG.

He's gutted in front of you, he's gutted because he's missing her. Guess what, he misses her and he's going to see her again. Especially since you won't out the affair to her husband.

There is almost a 100% chance that there will be no real reconciliation here. 2 reasons: He doesn't love you anymore, and the affair is going to continue. He is still protecting her. He's still working with her. He still LOVES her (or thinks he does). 

Why do you think he doesn't want you to tell her husband? It's so he can still see her.

Blow this thing up. This woman broke up your family. This woman betrayed her family.
He has a right to know, and you need him to keep his cheating wife away from your husband.

I adamantly advise you to tell her husband.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

The odds are worse if I don't try.

I think it's far too early to call this a false reconciliation. It's been only just over 12 hours since he broke things off and recommitted to us. I don't expect that overnight things are back the way they were before this. We have to overcome a lot. I have to overcome my trust issues with him and he says he needs help overcoming trust issues with me. We both have starting points and that's what we need to move forward.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> Not outing the OW to her husband?
> 
> That is such a completely bad idea. You should out her to her husband because it's the right thing to do. He has a right to know, just like you do.
> 
> ...


She is telling the husband but her husband doesn't know this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> The odds are worse if I don't try.
> 
> I think it's far too early to call this a false reconciliation. It's been only just over 12 hours since he broke things off and recommitted to us. I don't expect that overnight things are back the way they were before this. We have to overcome a lot. I have to overcome my trust issues with him and he says he needs help overcoming trust issues with me. We both have starting points and that's what we need to move forward.


Why does he need to overcome trust issues with you?


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## MancMan (May 5, 2016)

Wow I feel so bad for the OP for 2 reason. firstly because she is here, it must be awful knowing the truth. Secondly because there is a belief that papering over the cracks will work.

Like many have said, I sincerely hope it does work, but in reality its going deep underground and you won't know it. If they continue to work together, see each other, chat, make time to be alone, it will continue.

To get him to realise what he's done wrong and fix it he needs to lose it. At least if you won't do that please out him to the OMW, she deserves that and it will improve your odds of it working, even if only slightly. Doing nothing and allowing him to get away without any consequences will merely help him continue without fear.

Good luck.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I am telling her husband. I'm just not sure how to do it. I'm not friends enough to call him and I was thinking about texting, but I don't want him to get it when he's working. Maybe an email is best. I go back and forth. I don't want to be the one who sends the news but I don't want to do it in a way that's insensitive.

Honestly I'm not sure how far that will even get me. Their marriage has a really weird dynamic. It's hard to explain. He's a standoffish guy. They don't have any kids. They tried for a number of years. She can't get pregnant and they stopped trying about a year ago. Her infertility thing is no secret.

He has trust issues with me, so he says, from some circumstances a few years ago. It's something we worked through at the time that he likes to bring up to deflect from himself and project onto me. He only brings it up when it's convenient to him because there isn't much he can say to explain it rationally beyond "that's what I feel."

Working together is an issue and I'm hoping it's uncomfortable enough that she will quit. Everybody knows what the deal is and to not see each other there will be extremely easy. I have many friends there so it'll be easy to know if they do spend time together. Like I said, I'm hoping the shame of it all just makes her leave since my husband needs the job, she doesn't.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I am telling her husband. I'm just not sure how to do it. I'm not friends enough to call him and I was thinking about texting, but I don't want him to get it when he's working. Maybe an email is best. I go back and forth. I don't want to be the one who sends the news but I don't want to do it in a way that's insensitive.
> 
> Honestly I'm not sure how far that will even get me. Their marriage has a really weird dynamic. It's hard to explain. He's a standoffish guy. They don't have any kids. They tried for a number of years. She can't get pregnant and they stopped trying about a year ago. Her infertility thing is no secret.
> 
> ...


It will be easy not to see her there, but also easy to see her.They can have the same lunch hour and met away from there. After all they have done this for ages. 

Email is the method I would use. Of course she will deny it to him, but you can tell him that your husband has admitted it. 

Did you cheat before?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

There is only one approach in this, the most direct route. Call him and meet him in person. Lay it all out for him and tell him to keep his wife the hell away from your husband. One or both of them must leave the job.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Fairchild said:


> The odds are worse if I don't try.
> 
> *If you're determined that you must avoid divorce at any cost; then yes, your approach may increase the odds of avoiding a divorce - at least for now. But if you take divorce off the table, it's like taking a knife to a gun fight. Your husband holds all the power in your relationship and has little or no motivation to demonstrate remorse; or even to stop cheating.*
> 
> ...


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## MancMan (May 5, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I am telling her husband. I'm just not sure how to do it. I'm not friends enough to call him and I was thinking about texting, but I don't want him to get it when he's working. Maybe an email is best. I go back and forth. I don't want to be the one who sends the news but I don't want to do it in a way that's insensitive.
> 
> Honestly I'm not sure how far that will even get me. Their marriage has a really weird dynamic. It's hard to explain. He's a standoffish guy. They don't have any kids. They tried for a number of years. She can't get pregnant and they stopped trying about a year ago. Her infertility thing is no secret.
> 
> ...


Stop worrying about the dynamics of their marriage and worrying about when/how he gets the message. Worry about your own. Call him (he doesn't need to be a friend) and lay it out for him. Tell him the lot and that it was your husband that told you.

As for work, easy to avoid? I'm sure it is IF HE WANTS TO but I really don't think he will. And there will be shame if others know which is why so many say expose.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Fairchild said:


> I am telling her husband. I'm just not sure how to do it. I'm not friends enough to call him and I was thinking about texting, but I don't want him to get it when he's working. Maybe an email is best. I go back and forth. I don't want to be the one who sends the news but I don't want to do it in a way that's insensitive.


With most hard decisions the best choice is to just be quick and direct (think of it like pulling off a bandaid...you just yank it off quickly and then it's over). You can't sugarcoat this. Just call him and say: "I don't know if you are aware of the situation yet but your wife and my husband are having an affair. I've already confronted my husband and yesterday he said he would break it off. I'm sorry to have to tell you this. Goodbye."

When I caught my XWW cheating I confronted her then immediately called the OM's wife and said I had to come over that day to speak with her about something important. I then came by and told her everything directly and asked if she wanted copies of the VAR or not. Then I left. She appreciated the honesty. I also knew there was nothing I could do to spare her feelings, but I also knew that her feelings being hurt were solely the result of her husband deciding to cheat.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> My emotions are all over the place but I feel better after last night. I think there's a real shot here and he seems committed to not contacting her. And everybody knows now so it'll make it harder for them to have moments alone like they did. I'm still on the fence on how much to ask him though. Is it better to know everything, the basics, or to move on?


It sounds like you're at least started on the right track. He may still decide he wants to leave the marriage, but if he does so it won't be in the fog of an affair.

How much to ask? You should ask for the things you really need to know. My take on it is you should perhaps look at tiers. The first tier would be the very basic stuff. Then if you have more questions, ask those. Then if you need more info, ask for it. Pause for a few days if necessary between tiers to think about whether the answers really make a difference or if they would become barriers to recovery. You know they had sex, do you really need to know all the dirty details? What is the drive behind a curiosity? 

Some good reasons to ask questions is to see if he will be fully honest. Will he push through his own embarrassment and pain to give you a complete and honest answer? Will he fully capitulate? If he won't fully capitulate, he is still protecting himself or the OW in some way. You might be asking for more info than you really need, but getting him to capitulate and be fully honest with you might be a valid reason to go there.

You really do need for him to write out a timeline of the affair. This is the first step of capitulation.

One thing to be aware of is that affair sex tends to be less restrained than marital sex. Affair partners frequently do things they have refused their spouse. This is part of the nature of affairs.

I highly recommend the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. There are some other similar books which folks here recommend but which I have not read.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

good luck.


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I don't think I'm enabling fence-sitting. I told him yesterday he had to cut off communication, she or he had to quit, and I'd tell his boss if he didn't. I'm crystal clear I want him to stay and so far he is in only the most technical sense. If anything he was off the fence and headed to a greener pasture but I convinced him to stay.
> 
> I'm just not sure what to do now that he's still here. I don't know how to talk to him about what he's doing or if he's sticking to what I asked. I'm not sure how to get the ball rolling.




He isn't a child and you are forcing him to do things he doesn't want to do. Why beg him to stay? Why threaten him to keep him in the home? You should notify the other woman's husband and let the chips fall where they may. Even if things don't work out for him with the other woman, let him figure that out but don't wait around for him to figure that out. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Don't beg him, don't sleep with him as he is having sex with someone else, try and be strong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I don't care what his reasons are for staying right now. If he leaves I have zero chance of working with him on reconciling. Like the counselor said, if he's out the door and we've settled into the separation routine, it will be harder to get any meaningful face time with him. He will be gone.
> 
> If he stays, it means he's there and we can work on things. He doesn't have to like me right now, I expect we will both hate each other at various points. But in 5, 10, 20 years, hopefully we will be able to look back and say he came back for the wrong reasons but stayed for the right ones.
> 
> Jessica and Re have good feedback. I'll admit I was thinking that exposing it wouldn't do much, but maybe it will. If he says he had contact with her today then I'll start screaming from the rooftops what's going on.


Have you read the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley? You are basically trying to work the plan in the book. I suggest you read it because it will fill you in one some details that you are missing.... helpful details.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> He came home and I asked him if he had any thoughts on what I said yesterday. He said no. He said he still wanted to leave. When I asked if he had seen her today, he said he hadn't. Then I said we needed to solve this and the affair had to end. I asked him if he'd stay to give us a chance, a few weeks, a few months, something. He said no. Our marriage was over for awhile and he couldn't get past our issues. I told him I didn't accept that and that I wasn't ready to share our kids with her and I didn't want our kids to lose their family. He broke down and said I'd it wasn't for the kids he would have left awhile ago, he wasn't happy but he didn't know what to do about the kids.
> 
> After some back and forth he said he'd stay for the kids and agreed to what we talked about yesterday and the other stipulations somebody mentioned earlier. I told him that it meant he had to not see her and break off all contact and she'd have to quit or he'd have to transfer. He said that wasn't reasonable but he'd break things off with her. I said if he was serious he'd do it right then and there over the phone in front of me, which he did. I'm working on a letter to send her and her husband. I already told my family and his and I called them both out on Facebook so everybody knows.
> 
> ...


What you put in that letter is very important. You might want to post it here so that we can give you feed back. The thing is HE, not YOU, need to write here a no contact letter. I'm concerned about what you are going to write as it could really blow things up. Sending a no-contact letter is discussed in that book I suggested. I has a chapter on what has to go into the letter and what cannot be in it.

If you write a letter to the OW and her husband, it gives her way too much power. You need to ignore her, she's nothing to you. All of your beef is with your husband since he is the one who vowed to be faithful. Now you can expose her to her husband. But that's you talking to her husband, not you talking to her and sending her a letter.

You writing a letter is useless in breaking up the affair. If anything it makes it look like you are controlling and that he has nothing to do with this... basically. When it comes to ending the affair, what matters is what he says and does, not what you say and do. 

Below is a sample no contact letter. 

============

OW,

I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that {wife's name} did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay {wife's name} for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I love my wife and family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship. 

Sincerely,


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

badmemory said:


> Fairchild said:
> 
> 
> > The odds are worse if I don't try.
> ...


This is very true, OP. Please keep this in mind.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I didn't cheat, no. The circumstances around the conception of our second son is something he has an issue with. 

Basically I got baby fever and was ready for another baby, and he wasn't. He said we weren't in a good place and we couldn't afford it and he wasn't ready. I told him I was tired of the headaches on the pill and was going off of it and if he didn't want to have another baby it was up to him to prevent it. He says that he thought I meant I was eventually going off, not that I was going off immediately. Apparently the pill killed my sex drive and going off of it, I ended up initiating a lot. He didn't do anything to prevent getting pregnant so I thought he'd worked through to wanting a baby. I got pregnant very quickly and when I told him he said I had tricked him and because our first child wasn't planned, he accused me of intentionally getting pregnant then too. 

It was a rough patch but by the time our second was born he said he had worked through it, but we had gone from having sex 2-5 times a week to once every few months. It didn't bother me really because my hands were full, but he said the reason he stopped wanting sex is because he didn't trust I wouldn't get pregnant again. I think he was even still worried about it when we were intimate yesterday and today because he wouldn't "finish."

I've talked to him about it over and over and he's agreed to try and trust me on that again, but he never really seems to stick with it. He also has some distrust over my handling of finances. 

I'd thought about the sex they had and I'll admit I'm kind of dwelling on it now. Really though there's nothing she could have done with him that I haven't done already with him. He has a super high drive and before our second was born, we were really active and open to try a lot of different things. I'm more worried that it wasn't just sex. If that's the case it doesn't matter what they did sexually but what it meant. That's worse.

With their work, it's actually harder for them to see each other than it is to avoid each other. Their employer is really large and they work in totally opposite parts of the building. Because of where her office is (basically a bank vault behind 3 sets of locked doors), be has absolutely no reason to be there. He'd have to go out of his way to find her and he'd have to do it in front of half a dozen people all of whom know. They don't even lunch at the same time. Plus their hours don't overlap all that much generally. Most of the time they saw each other as friends was outside of work or on those days they shared hours and they sought each other out. That doesn't mean that he can stay or she can stay there, but he can keep his promise to not see her really easily. Especially with everybody watching. Hopefully she will agree to quit or he will get a transfer. Family will help us financially I think if we move to save the marriage. Obviously the faster we can do this the better.

I don't want to meet her husband. I think an email and text will be enough. I'm just really thinking about how because he's about to get told something that I found out Monday. I would kill to have found out in a way that wasn't so shocking. They have no kids so there's that, but I don't want to come in like an elephant with the news either. I'll send out something short and to the point that tells him and tells him to keep her from us.

I haven't heard from her yet.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I am telling her husband. I'm just not sure how to do it. I'm not friends enough to call him and I was thinking about texting, but I don't want him to get it when he's working. Maybe an email is best. I go back and forth. I don't want to be the one who sends the news but I don't want to do it in a way that's insensitive.
> 
> Honestly I'm not sure how far that will even get me. Their marriage has a really weird dynamic. It's hard to explain. He's a standoffish guy. They don't have any kids. They tried for a number of years. She can't get pregnant and they stopped trying about a year ago. Her infertility thing is no secret.
> 
> ...


Is your husband her peer? Or is he higher up in the company than she?


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

He broke up with her over the phone and said basically all that. He owes our marriage and me a chance, he made vows to me, he's ashamed he broke them, so on. He said from that point he wouldn't talk to her, so sending her a letter in top of that when he said his conversation was the end seems counterintuitive. I almost feel the letter has less impact than him sayoingnout of his mouth to her hears what his intentions are. The letter she could say I wrote and he copied or signed. There's wiggle room there for both of them. The phone call though? That's harder. Anything he says can't be taken back without damaging the trust he says they shared. He'd have to say he lied then or didn't mean it or whatever. 

I did send her the email already. It wasn't long and I didn't beg with her. I just laid out we were focusing on our marriage and if she intruded again that she was hurting children and risking public shaming as I'd bring every email and text and picture out for the whole world to see. And I said that for how he said what they had was special, the first sign of real resistance and he gave her up and resumed marital intimacy hours later. So at the very least she has questions about how special what they shared truly was since I'm sure she knows we weren't having sex that frequently.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Fairchild said:


> The odds are worse if I don't try.
> 
> I think it's far too early to call this a false reconciliation. It's been only just over 12 hours since he broke things off and recommitted to us. I don't expect that overnight things are back the way they were before this. We have to overcome a lot. I have to overcome my trust issues with him and he says he needs help overcoming trust issues with me. We both have starting points and that's what we need to move forward.


It isn't, Fairchild. Many spouses like you want to forget and forgive and move forward, believing they can love their W spouse back to them. This isn't how it works. You need to get Surving an Affair and follow the plan to a T. It's written by a licensed psychologist who has had great success recovering marriages going through exactly what you're going through. It will give you a concrete plan to follow that will allow you to keep your dignity while giving your marriage the best chance possible. Right now you're thinking with hysterical emotion. Anyone in your situation would be. You can't rely on your judgement right now. You need outside help, which is why you're here, but instead of piecing our advice together, and looking into things like the OW's marital dynamics, you should be checking items off a checklist from a plan that actually works to end affairs and give a marriage suffering infidelity a fighting chance.

I know you're scared. You have children. I would be too, anyone would be in your position. But for their sake and yours, stop trying to work this out yourself. You're far to emotional. Follow a plan and take the emotion out of it.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

He's not higher up or a peer. It's hard to explain. They work at the same place and share the same boss, but that's where the overlap ends.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Please don't do anything else right now until you get a plan in place. You're going about this wrong. You should not be contacting the OW directly. There is so much more you need to know...your husband will need to change his contact info (cell number, etc.). One text from the OW 2 weeks from now will restart the whole affair. Your husband will be grieving the loss of the OW. 

There is so much more you need to know.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> He broke up with her over the phone and said basically all that. He owes our marriage and me a chance, he made vows to me, he's ashamed he broke them, so on. He said from that point he wouldn't talk to her, so sending her a letter in top of that when he said his conversation was the end seems counterintuitive. I almost feel the letter has less impact than him sayoingnout of his mouth to her hears what his intentions are. The letter she could say I wrote and he copied or signed. There's wiggle room there for both of them. The phone call though? That's harder. Anything he says can't be taken back without damaging the trust he says they shared. He'd have to say he lied then or didn't mean it or whatever.


Well the phone call is done and over with. So right now, no letter is need. You brought up writing a letter to her and her husband and that was after he broke it off over the phone. I was addressing that. What a letter, if there is one, needs to look like, who writes it. And if it is written he signs it and the two of you both mail it together.

He could also tell her that you made him make that phone call. It happens all the time. They could very likely take the affair underground now. Telling her husband would have the added benefit of having the two of you keeping your eyes on them.

One reason for the letter is that it’s hard to end contact, with contact. A phone call is contact. He tells her that his affair was a terrible thing that he did to YOU? Did he tell her that he is committing to you and your children? This is an important aspect of the letter, that only talks about you and that he hurt you. That he never mentions anything about his feelings for her? Did he mention his feelings for her in the phone call? Did he tell her that he would miss her or anything like that?

Often, a cheater will say that they want to tell their affair partner in person. That’s a disaster waiting to happen. They go off somewhere to tell the affair partner, and it turns into a blubbering “l love you so much but need to end the affair” fest and often ends with sex and plans to take it underground.



Fairchild said:


> I did send her the email already. It wasn't long and I didn't beg with her. I just laid out we were focusing on our marriage and if she intruded again that she was hurting children and risking public shaming as I'd bring every email and text and picture out for the whole world to see. And I said that for how he said what they had was special, the first sign of real resistance and he gave her up and resumed marital intimacy hours later. So at the very least she has questions about how special what they shared truly was since I'm sure she knows we weren't having sex that frequently.


Well it’s done. Except for telling her husband, ignore her in the future. 

And please read the book I suggested.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> He's not higher up or a peer. It's hard to explain. They work at the same place and share the same boss, but that's where the overlap ends.


OK, I get it. It's a big corp and their work it not related. 

My concern was if there is any way that when she gets angry, and she most likely will, if she could bring sexual harassment charges against him. But if he has no authority over her then that's not an issue.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I didn't cheat, no. The circumstances around the conception of our second son is something he has an issue with.
> 
> Basically I got baby fever and was ready for another baby, and he wasn't. He said we weren't in a good place and we couldn't afford it and he wasn't ready. I told him I was tired of the headaches on the pill and was going off of it and if he didn't want to have another baby it was up to him to prevent it. He says that he thought I meant I was eventually going off, not that I was going off immediately. Apparently the pill killed my sex drive and going off of it, I ended up initiating a lot. He didn't do anything to prevent getting pregnant so I thought he'd worked through to wanting a baby. I got pregnant very quickly and when I told him he said I had tricked him and because our first child wasn't planned, he accused me of intentionally getting pregnant then too.


I don't blame him for having issues with this. It's pretty ****ed up. Having a child should be a mutual decision and it wasn't.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

He did mention the kids too, but I'm trying to kind of keep them out of online discussions. I'm speaking in generalities on them and specifics on the adults. Elsewhere mentioning them too easily steered the discussion towards talking about them in ways that made me uncomfortable.

Sexual harassment charges aren't a worry. 

I'll for sure grab the book. Follow the plan in there as best I can.


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## LadybugMomma (Apr 28, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I don't care what his reasons are for staying right now. If he leaves I have zero chance of working with him on reconciling. Like the counselor said, if he's out the door and we've settled into the separation routine, it will be harder to get any meaningful face time with him. He will be gone.
> 
> If he stays, it means he's there and we can work on things. He doesn't have to like me right now, I expect we will both hate each other at various points. But in 5, 10, 20 years, hopefully we will be able to look back and say he came back for the wrong reasons but stayed for the right ones.
> 
> Jessica and Re have good feedback. I'll admit I was thinking that exposing it wouldn't do much, but maybe it will. If he says he had contact with her today then I'll start screaming from the rooftops what's going on.


Have you given any thought to the fact that he might be seeking a lawyer to get the divorce rolling, but is staying because it's a place to stay till the OW bails on her husband? Just a thought. You have to be on you toes, bring your A game and be ready and prepared for the worst.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Abc123wife said:


> You may want to reconcile but you can't force your WH to do it. You can't reconcile on your own. I think what many are telling you is that if you do 180 and stop trying to win him back, he might just realize what he is going to miss out on. If you continue to do the pick me dance, he is never going to want to come back to the marriage.


Or he could decide to keep seeing the OW since if you do the pick me dance. He'll figure that since you still want him back after finding out he had an affair that he can still get away with it.


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## LadybugMomma (Apr 28, 2016)

Jessica38 said:


> Yes to all of the above. He should have sent a No Contact letter that you previewed and agreed to, stating that he wants to work on his marriage with his wife and save his family.
> 
> His attitude of "only willing to stay for the kids" and staying in the spare room does not bode well, OP.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly. He should be begging OP for forgiveness and be so far up her behind that he can't see light of day, much less need to go in another room to sulk.


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## Grapes (Oct 21, 2016)

There is no way for you to be certain he isnt in contact with OW still. They work together.. 5 days a week. During the week he spends more time with her then you. You seem to think you can control your husband and his behavior but the truth is you cant. He is going to do what he wants. And he loves her.

You think 2 adults in love and in close proximity have a change of heart because someone said so? Come on!

wake up.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Grapes said:


> There is no way for you to be certain he isnt in contact with OW still. They work together.. 5 days a week. During the week he spends more time with her then you. You seem to think you can control your husband and his behavior but the truth is you cant. He is going to do what he wants. And he loves her.
> 
> You think 2 adults in love and in close proximity have a change of heart because someone said so? Come on!
> 
> wake up.


This.

I'd say to really think on this for a while, like others have suggested. Taking him back too soon or leaving too soon, might both not be in your best interest, right now. Look out for you in this, and don't chase your husband. Let him come back to you, let him work towards making amends. You can't make amends for him, and you can't demand amends. You want your marriage to work right now, but you can't do his part. He has to do it, and if his heart is not in it, that's another decision you may have to make, but it doesn't have to be made right now. I hope things get better for you.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

LadybugMomma said:


> Jessica38 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes to all of the above. He should have sent a No Contact letter that you previewed and agreed to, stating that he wants to work on his marriage with his wife and save his family.
> ...


OP, do you realize that you need to shake him up here, make him rethink seriously what he's doing? Making him leave your home will give him a very serious reality check of what he will lose if he continues his fantasy of being with the OW. 

He should not be given the opportunity to behave this way after betraying you and your children. He's acting like a teenager who's mommy took away his toy. Stop enabling him.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Fairchild said:


> He didn't sleep in the spare room or the couch last night. He slept in our bed. We also were intimate last night and this morning which is a really good sign.


Did you remember to thank him for any std's he might have given you?

My ex wife betrayed me 24 years ago and I've been a student of the subject of marital infidelity ever since. For the life of me I'll never comprehend why betrayed spouses can't figure out that saving a marriage at the cost of their dignity always back fires. 

OP, I'm sorry you are going through this.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Maybe you are just in shock. Hysterical bonding. 
Someone told me to give it 6 months before making any decisions. 
Months 1-2 I was hopeful for our marriage. On month 4 now and I hate him. 

You might feel differently in a few months.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I get a lot of you think I should leave, but I've already said I'm not going to give up on our marriage just yet. You guys don't have to understand it, but if you could at least accept it that would be helpful. I don't need to be scolded and shamed because I'm not willing to give up on him or what we've made together.

I don't think what's happened is beyond fixing. That's all that matters considering it is my husband, my marriage, my family, and my life. If I'm wrong that's fine, but I'm not any worse off. If I'm right then I have a marriage and if I'm wrong I'm divorced anyway. I've got nothing to lose by fighting.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I understand it, but you can't fix your husband. Only he can fix himself, and I hope he chooses you as much as you're choosing him, that's all. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Fairchild said:


> I get a lot of you think I should leave, but I've already said I'm not going to give up on our marriage just yet. You guys don't have to understand it, but if you could at least accept it that would be helpful. I don't need to be scolded and shamed because I'm not willing to give up on him or what we've made together.
> 
> I don't think what's happened is beyond fixing. That's all that matters considering it is my husband, my marriage, my family, and my life. If I'm wrong that's fine, but I'm not any worse off. If I'm right then I have a marriage and if I'm wrong I'm divorced anyway. I've got nothing to lose by fighting.


You really need to get this "fighting" attitude out of your head. YOU chasing him by satisfying his every need for food, sex, and affection---- that will do nothing but drive him further away from you emotionally.
Every single person that ever uses this "fighting for their marriage" statement has ruined what little chance they had by chasing.

This husband of yours is not remorseful in ANY way for what he has done, which is horrible.
IF he actually cuts contact with his AP, which we all know he isn't, he is going to build resentment toward you for ruining his chance at "true love" with his AP.
He will come to see you as a woman that he can have anytime, and he will want MORE.

You have got to blow up the affair, which you have done. Bravo!!!!!!
Now you have to totally wreck his idea that he's too good for you, that he has you at his whim. You are not to be trifled with. You are his wife and deserve his respect.
You should have zero respect for him, and he should be willing to move heaven and earth to get it back.
He's only willing to stay for his kids!
He even denied you sex! That would have put me into a rage...... like YOU are the one that isn't worthy of his ----.

I hope this works out for you, but we e all seen this a hundred times and reconciliation just has no chance with an unrenorseful cheating spouse. If you busted his affair up and chunked him out of the house and blew his world up, there might be a chance he'd appreciate you again and strive to make things right.

I see him actually becoming resentful over you ruining his chance at his "soulmate", and him just slowly starting the hate being with you.

So that's what I worry about for you.
Don't want to see it happen.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I get a lot of you think I should leave, but I've already said I'm not going to give up on our marriage just yet. You guys don't have to understand it, but if you could at least accept it that would be helpful. I don't need to be scolded and shamed because I'm not willing to give up on him or what we've made together.


There are some people here on TAM who think that the only way to handle infidelity is divorce. You are hearing a lot from them on this thread. There are other who believe that it's completely possible to recover from infidelity. IMHO, no one should be telling you what you have to do. And no one should be trying to shame you into either leaving or staying. It's your life. That's your choice. We should be supporting you in your decision.

A good number of people do recover their marriages after infidelity and go on to have a good marriage for the rest of their lives. I know people in my real life who have done this. About 50% to 80% of marriages do recover from infidelity.

You want to try to recover your marriage. Then that's what you do. You can always change your mind it things are not working out. 



Fairchild said:


> I don't think what's happened is beyond fixing. That's all that matters considering it is my husband, my marriage, my family, and my life. If I'm wrong that's fine, but I'm not any worse off. If I'm right then I have a marriage and if I'm wrong I'm divorced anyway. I've got nothing to lose by fighting.


I agree that your marriage is not beyond fixing. Any marriage can be fixed if the couple does the right things.

You are right, you will not lose by fighting. You can always change your mind.

(The book, did you get the book? It's a quick read. Once you read it you will understand why I keep bringing it up.)


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I didn't cheat, no. The circumstances around the conception of our second son is something he has an issue with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I hate to say this but you are really fooling yourself. You have forced him to say things to you possibly only to get you off of his back. You have everything planned out to a t as to when he can see her at work, etc. Please don't comtinue to live in a fantasy world. Be realistic about your husband and the situation. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> There are some people here on TAM who think that the only way to handle infidelity is divorce.


I think at times the "T" in TAM is "Trigger"...

Been there, not proud I've done that....


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I get a lot of you think I should leave, but I've already said I'm not going to give up on our marriage just yet. You guys don't have to understand it, but if you could at least accept it that would be helpful. I don't need to be scolded and shamed because I'm not willing to give up on him or what we've made together.
> 
> I don't think what's happened is beyond fixing. That's all that matters considering it is my husband, my marriage, my family, and my life. If I'm wrong that's fine, but I'm not any worse off. If I'm right then I have a marriage and if I'm wrong I'm divorced anyway. I've got nothing to lose by fighting.


I know several marriages that survived affairs, so its worth a try.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Fairchild said:


> I get a lot of you think I should leave, but I've already said I'm not going to give up on our marriage just yet. You guys don't have to understand it, but if you could at least accept it that would be helpful. I don't need to be scolded and shamed because I'm not willing to give up on him or what we've made together.
> 
> I don't think what's happened is beyond fixing. That's all that matters considering it is my husband, my marriage, my family, and my life. If I'm wrong that's fine, but I'm not any worse off. If I'm right then I have a marriage and if I'm wrong I'm divorced anyway. *I've got nothing to lose by fighting.*


Regarding the bolded, I politely disagree, when the situation is one-sided in terms of heavy lifting, as I believe yours is. There's a lot you stand to lose by being the only one really "fighting" when that's HIS job:

Your time. 
Your energy. 
Your sanity. 
Your self-respect. 
Your dignity.
Your youth.
Your ability to heal from the emotional pain. 
Your ability to learn resilience.
Your ability to trust. 
Your ability to see what is. 

I could go on. I'm not even talking monetary things. I'm talking about things that can erode your confidence and your spirit. 

If I thought by your posts that he was demonstrating adequate remorse and damage control, I would not even be posting at all, nor would many others. I'm a realist but I do believe in trying to heal the relationship first before just letting it go. That is, if both parties are doing what is necessary. When you're the person doing the majority of the work, or trying to twist yourself into a pretzel so that his life is easier, many of us know that this is not a good sign. I look one layer deeper and know that it also hurts you down to your very core.

It is your life and your choice and only you can choose. Some people prefer to learn on their own, to be completely sure of their decisions. I can respect that. Rather than see posters as scolding you (the moderators would crack down if they thought anyone went to far), I'd offer that you try to see the genuine advice that lies beneath some of their hurt. All the best.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

Again, it has been just over 24 hours since I sat and listened to him break things off with her. There's only so much I can demand he does to prove himself in 24 hours. To get here took longer than 24 hours so to get back will take longer too. Honestly if he had gone to wanting to be gone to licking my boots in 24 hours then I'd feel that's less authentic. 

He thinks he loves her and maybe he does. I can't ignore that. Knowing that, any groveling or begging would have seemed like a lie to get me off his back. This is harder to accept but at least believable. If he were anything but sad then is think it was an act.

He came home yesterday and he didn't see her and he spoke to his boss about transferring. There isn't anything available where we want to go in his pay grade but he's on the list and stuff opens quickly. He came straight home and spent the whole evening with us. He said it was a hard day with a lot of questions he didn't want to answer and mostly didn't. What surprised me was a lot of what I heard back was from people who had already assumed they had an affair. People weren't as surprised as I thought. I haven't heard from her and what I did hear from her husband wasn't helpful. He won't be a resource in this at all. My husband has said nothing about me contacting her or her husband.

Today I feel weird. Because of how I found out, I pretty much have the timeline of what happened and how they reacted to it. I want to talk about it, get a timeline, ask a thousand questions, but I'm waiting to get that book. So far he's stuck with everything I've asked and things I haven't, like staying off the computer and leaving his phone unlocked and face up on the charger while we are at home.

Look, I'm a realist. I'm not expecting things to be alright in a week, two weeks, or even a year. I'm absolutely sure there will be setbacks or he will see her or talk to her. I don't think he went from planning on leaving a week ago and in love to out of love and invested in us and she's out of his head. The best I can do is one day at a time and deal with what happens on that day. It's going to be hard for both of us and that's ok. I just want to be able to say I was dealt this hand and I did the best with it I could. I'm tired of hearing about what I deserve and what I don't deserve and how to save my pride and dignity. I can decide what I deserve and honestly life isn't about getting what you deserve, it's trying to make the best of what you get. And I don't think that if telling my husband I'd love him forever two weeks ago meant I had no dignity, I lose my dignity by saying it now. Just like how he feels about her isn't going to end overnight, how I feel about him won't either.

This is a weird time for us and we are just doing the best we can right now. His best doesn't look like much and maybe my best looks like too much. Best we can do is a day, a thought, a feeling, an action at a time.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Does he love you? That'd be the only question worth him answering, in my opinion.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

Right guy now? He says no. He says he never loved me like he loves her, but that's classic affair fog stuff. He's rewriting years of history to accommodate one month of an affair. Honestly I don't expect him to say he loves me right now. He's caught in an affair. He has a whole thought process he's used to rationalize the irrational.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So why are you here?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I read what you wrote about how things were in your marriage and kid number 2. Is that what he says made him look elsewhere? For future reference, when you know your man has a 'super high drive' and he's not doing you most days...that's your hint that something is drastically wrong and needs to be solved.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

Why am I here where? This forum? For support and people to talk to about it. I have nobody to talk to IRL who has experience with this.

I did know that there was an issue but it started exactly when our youngest was born. Up until that week we were intimate 2-5 times a week. He had said that it was because of his trust issues, which makes sense for his line of thinking. I was tired anyway with two kids and all that comes with it so I didn't pursue intimacy as actively as I could have, but when I did it all went back to not wanting to get me pregnant since I wasn't on birth control.

Their affair started a month ago.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So why does he say it happened? The affair I mean.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

What did her husband say when you told him?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

what I think is going to happen:

Resentment builds from him listing soulmate. Gross.

He stays a while until the OW divorces her husband--- its obvious she is according to how you describe him.

He's going to say "I tried" to make himself feel better about leaving, and you will be devastated.

My suggestion: When they tell you they don't love you--let them go. I assure you that you are going to have to eventually,because he's going to leave you.
He's not staying for the kids. He's staying because he likely can't afford the divorce.

Fact: you are in too much pain to see the truth. 
You are in family-preservation mode and are incapable of taking advice (I recognize it because I was where you were once).

You can't fight for a person. They will fight back. You can't will a person to love you. You can't make his home comfortable enough to not make him want his feel-good kick he gets from the OW.

Realize that every glimpse he gets of her puts him right back to wanting her.

I am not being negative, it's just the truth.
Your husband is not going to fall back in love with you. Even if you rocked his world with divorce, he probably wouldn't love you again.

It's just how it is. You are going to be in tremendous pain until you accept that you have to move on. 

I know this is falling in deaf ears, but eventually you will understand I'm trying to help you avoid extended pain.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

He just said that she started as a friend, somebody he had a lot in common with, who was cool and fun to be with. Then he noticed that he looked forward to seeing her and would seek her out. Somewhere along the line he interpreted their close friendship as love. He didn't say specifically what triggered it except for how he felt. He alluded to them having more in common and he trusts her whereas we have very little in common and we have trust issues on both sides now.

Her husband just emailed back and said to mind my own business and to leave him and her alone.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Fairchild said:


> He just said that she started as a friend, somebody he had a lot in common with, who was cool and fun to be with. Then he noticed that he looked forward to seeing her and would seek her out. Somewhere along the line he interpreted their close friendship as love. He didn't say specifically what triggered it except for how he felt. He alluded to them having more in common and he trusts her whereas we have very little in common and we have trust issues on both sides now.
> 
> 
> 
> Her husband just emailed back and said to mind my own business and to leave him and her alone.




Are you cool and fun to hang out with? Do you have a career? Can you get more in common with him?


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

At this point the extended pain comes in not trying and divorcing. This way I can say I tried to make it work. The guilt would haunt me forever if I didn't.

Right now he's here and he's trying. That's all I asked. I'm not expecting miracles in a week. We are taking the baby steps to get to where we need to. That's all I can do and that's all he can do.

And if he can fall out of love with me and in love with her then I can put in the same work and time to have him fall out of love with her and in love with me. It'll be a long process, I'm sure. It's not impossible though. People do it. Monday will be a week since I found out. I'm 48 hours past our come to Jesus talk. Repairing this will take time.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I'm trying to find more we can have in common. I've tried to dive into his passions (board games, video games) and have him teach me things, but I feel like it's frustrating to him so I stopped. I asked him today to teach me a few simple games and when I started to irritate him, I backed off. I'm trying to find other ways to connect with him. It's hard. We are making plans to go out, that helps.

I work but I only work part time around his schedule because we can't afford daycare for two kids. My job is just basic retail stuff, nothing really interesting. Just something I could get that had flexible hours.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It's sad that you're assuming this was somehow your fault, that your husband sought out another woman. You twisting into a pretzel to become someone you're really not to gain your husband's attention will not help your situation, and in fact, it will cause you to eventually resent him.

If your marriage is to work, you might need to take a step back and stop trying so hard to please him because you're blaming yourself. Your husband might have a very unrealistic view of marriage, and when things became slightly tense with you, he turned his attention elsewhere. If that part of him remains, he will cheat again, is my point, and it has nothing to do with you. 

I hope you don't lose yourself in all of this, because you matter, too.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> He just said that she started as a friend, somebody he had a lot in common with, who was cool and fun to be with. Then he noticed that he looked forward to seeing her and would seek her out. Somewhere along the line he interpreted their close friendship as love. He didn't say specifically what triggered it except for how he felt. He alluded to them having more in common and he trusts her whereas we have very little in common and we have trust issues on both sides now.
> 
> Her husband just emailed back and said to mind my own business and to leave him and her alone.


Oh dear he is in denial. The thing is that it is your business because his wife has been sleeping with your husband.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> Right guy now? He says no. He says he never loved me like he loves her, but that's classic affair fog stuff. He's rewriting years of history to accommodate one month of an affair. Honestly I don't expect him to say he loves me right now. He's caught in an affair. He has a whole thought process he's used to rationalize the irrational.


You are right that what he is saying is classic affair fog. So is re-writing history. 

The affair fog is caused by being 'in love'... that infatuation that happens when a person first falls in love. For humans, "in love" means that your brains are producing and up taking a lot of feel good chemicals like dopamine and oxytocin. Oxytocin is called the amnesia hormone because it is the hormone that makes a person who is in love blind. Once he is away from her long enough, the hormones will subside and he will not even know why he was in love with her. Basically he's on a hormone induced high, much like a junky. 

He has you to fill a subset of his emotional needs and he has her to fill the rest. What a lucky guy!! Right? Not!!

If he stays away from her, he'll come out of the fog and then wonder why he did this. You are right that it will take a while, hopefully not too long.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> He just said that she started as a friend, somebody he had a lot in common with, who was cool and fun to be with. Then he noticed that he looked forward to seeing her and would seek her out. Somewhere along the line he interpreted their close friendship as love. He didn't say specifically what triggered it except for how he felt. He alluded to them having more in common and he trusts her whereas we have very little in common and we have trust issues on both sides now.


That's about how most affairs start. It's why it can be dangerous for men and women to be friends. There is a book here that a lot of people suggest when an affair starts as 'just friends'. I've not read it. But a lot speak highly of it. 

Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity by Shirley P. Glass and Jean Coppock Staeheli



Fairchild said:


> Her husband just emailed back and said to mind my own business and to leave him and her alone.


Well, at least he knows. Do you think she has him convinced that you are just making this up?

If you hear anything more like this from him, or if you want to replay to him, I suggest a short reply: "Your wife screwing my husband is my business. "

If you have solid evidence, I'd add a sentence telling him that you would be glad to email copies of the emails, etc etc that prove the affair.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> At this point the extended pain comes in not trying and divorcing. This way I can say I tried to make it work. The guilt would haunt me forever if I didn't.
> 
> Right now he's here and he's trying. That's all I asked. I'm not expecting miracles in a week. We are taking the baby steps to get to where we need to. That's all I can do and that's all he can do.
> 
> And if he can fall out of love with me and in love with her then I can put in the same work and time to have him fall out of love with her and in love with me. It'll be a long process, I'm sure. It's not impossible though. People do it. Monday will be a week since I found out. I'm 48 hours past our come to Jesus talk. Repairing this will take time.


I completely understand your desire to do all that you can. Giving this a good try is worth it. Knowing that you did all that you could do is important... at least it is to some people.

I know that this is hard. But there is a huge chance that he will come fully back into the marriage. Just keep at it for now.

I am also sure that some of the posts here are harsh and hard on you. Please take the useful input and let the rest go. Don't let this chase you off.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I'm trying to find more we can have in common. I've tried to dive into his passions (board games, video games) and have him teach me things, but I feel like it's frustrating to him so I stopped. I asked him today to teach me a few simple games and when I started to irritate him, I backed off. I'm trying to find other ways to connect with him. It's hard. We are making plans to go out, that helps.


You are on right that finding something that the two of you can do together is important. Learning something together does help to bring a couple together. Is there just one thing, one game, that he could teach you? Instead of asking about many games? The idea is to get it so that the two of you spend at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of you.

Dating, going out is good too.



Fairchild said:


> I work but I only work part time around his schedule because we can't afford daycare for two kids. My job is just basic retail stuff, nothing really interesting. Just something I could get that had flexible hours.


That's good.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I completely understand your desire to do all that you can. Giving this a good try is worth it. Knowing that you did all that you could do is important... at least it is to some people.
> 
> I know that this is hard. But there is a huge chance that he will come fully back into the marriage. Just keep at it for now.
> 
> I am also sure that some of the posts here are harsh and hard on you. Please take the useful input and let the rest go. Don't let this chase you off.


Agreed.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I'm not twisting myself in a pretzel to conform to his interests and I don't think this affair is my fault at all. This was a wake up call to me though that we really have absolutely nothing in common and I don't ever try to involve myself in his interests when, to his credit, he really does involve himself in mine.

For her it's easy to be fun when you have no kids to worry about. I realized that I spent so much time in survival mode. Wake up, manage kids and all that comes with it, the household, a marriage, a job, and then just trying to make it to the finish line of bed at the end of the day, frazzled and exhausted. In trying to survive all my obligations, making time for each other and I made no effort to do anything with him beyond my todo list and parenting. That's not me when we were dating. I tried all sorts of things just because it meant time together. He never stopped, even when things were bad. He definitely went 3/4 of the way to my 1/4. Changing that is something I need to do. It's not me conforming or losing myself, it's a basic fact in the dynamic of our marriage. It's not good.

With her husband I'm not surprised I got the response I did. I sent him the evidence but he's a really closed off, brash guy. He doesn't like me or my husband. I didn't expect him to be a resource really. I don't want to get into a war of words with him because, really, he has no control over what she does. What's the point of burning him down in an email fight over something he has no control of? She's her own women for better or worse and I have only so much energy for so many battles. I'd rather focus on mine than trying to send him on his. 

Thank you for the support guys. It's hard to talk to people IRL. I feel like most of them don't want to help or support me, they just want gossip from the horses mouth to discuss over the water cooler. I don't trust anybody at this point. The thing I can't shake is if so many people knew or suspected, why would they come to me now for details and to give sympathy? Wouldn't they have done it earlier if they cared as opposed to wanting to spread gossip? At least with my husband I know where stuff stands because I can lay out what I need and my expectations and set a pathway for accountability. I can't with other people. I don't want to add chasing down gossip to my list of concerns. 

In that way I wish I'd kept it quiet. I didn't realize so much of the focus and attention would come back on me. Silly, right?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Fairchild said:


> This was a wake up call to me though that we really have absolutely nothing in common and I don't ever try to involve myself in his interests when, to his credit, he really does involve himself in mine.
> 
> For her it's easy to be fun when you have no kids to worry about. I realized that I spent so much time in survival mode. Wake up, manage kids and all that comes with it, the household, a marriage, a job, and then just trying to make it to the finish line of bed at the end of the day, frazzled and exhausted. In trying to survive all my obligations, making time for each other and I made no effort to do anything with him beyond my todo list and parenting. That's not me when we were dating. I tried all sorts of things just because it meant time together. He never stopped, even when things were bad. He definitely went 3/4 of the way to my 1/4. Changing that is something I need to do. It's not me conforming or losing myself, it's a basic fact in the dynamic of our marriage. It's not good.


There are a lot of husbands out there, myself included, who wish their wives would have this kind of revelation. I think you're on the right track. I know I can almost never convince my wife to engage in any of the things I like to do. You end up feeling lonely and like you're not really on the same team. About the most we do "together" is go out to dinner. But none of the really fun stuff. None of what I would consider the core parts of my self identity.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I've known that was an issue for awhile. I always said to myself "tomorrow I'll make time" or "tonight after the kids go to bed" but then something happens and it's easier to just say "tomorrow" again. I've got years and 2 kids worth of tomorrows behind us. I always meant to try harder there but never really did it.

Meanwhile, every movie I wanted to see and he didn't, he watched. Every restaurant I wanted to try and he didn't, he did. Every vacation, daytrip, special event was always him doing my stuff. I never did anything like that for him and I used to.

So I don't see it as molding myself into what he wants, just picking up a ball I knew I dropped years ago and never picked up. 

I don't want him to think I've got this list of demands and I'm doing nothing to show I can help rebuild too. I don't want this affair to be the excuse behind everything. Part of showing I can move on is showing I know I did things that hurt our marriage too. It doesn't justify or excuse the affair but it does show I'm willing to do hard work to move on too.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I'm not twisting myself in a pretzel to conform to his interests and I don't think this affair is my fault at all. This was a wake up call to me though that we really have absolutely nothing in common and I don't ever try to involve myself in his interests when, to his credit, he really does involve himself in mine.
> 
> For her it's easy to be fun when you have no kids to worry about. I realized that I spent so much time in survival mode. Wake up, manage kids and all that comes with it, the household, a marriage, a job, and then just trying to make it to the finish line of bed at the end of the day, frazzled and exhausted. In trying to survive all my obligations, making time for each other and I made no effort to do anything with him beyond my todo list and parenting. That's not me when we were dating. I tried all sorts of things just because it meant time together. He never stopped, even when things were bad. He definitely went 3/4 of the way to my 1/4. Changing that is something I need to do. It's not me conforming or losing myself, it's a basic fact in the dynamic of our marriage. It's not good.
> 
> ...


Only after I filed for divorce did I find out that everyone but me knew that my husband was cheating. Even a couple of my close female friends knew. One of them told me that they suspect as much since his car was always parked overnight at the home of some nurse who lived down the street from her. My husband was an MD doing his residency. He was telling me that he was at the hospital all the time... clearly he was not.

But why didn't she tell me before I filed? Whey didn't she tell me every morning when we walked for 4 miles after dropping our children off at school? There were others who told me similar things. I could not be friends with anyone of them again after knowing that they knew so much for so long and just kept quiet about it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> There are a lot of husbands out there, myself included, who wish their wives would have this kind of revelation. I think you're on the right track. I know I can almost never convince my wife to engage in any of the things I like to do. You end up feeling lonely and like you're not really on the same team. About the most we do "together" is go out to dinner. But none of the really fun stuff. None of what I would consider the core parts of my self identity.


I suspect that there are a lot of women out there who feel the same way about their husbands. They wish he'd do things together with them, things that they enjoy. Both men and women tend to get bogged down in work and family after marriage and forget about doing those things that made them attractive to their spouse when they were dating.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> At this point the extended pain comes in not trying and divorcing. This way I can say I tried to make it work. The guilt would haunt me forever if I didn't.


A counselor told me she sees a lot of people who fight for the marriage but eventually divorce. They almost always say they stayed too long, _but that is probably a good thing because they know they did all they could_. When there are children and other complications involved, the negatives to divorce are real. It is worth making the effort.

Moderation is the key here. Give it a good solid effort, but don't drag it out if it becomes clear he is not truly in the marriage. That is probably the difficult thing to judge, when there is no more reason to hope for a successful reconciliation.

Best of luck to you.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I'm trying to find more we can have in common. I've tried to dive into his passions (board games, video games) and have him teach me things, but I feel like it's frustrating to him so I stopped. I asked him today to teach me a few simple games and when I started to irritate him, I backed off. I'm trying to find other ways to connect with him. It's hard. We are making plans to go out, that helps.
> 
> I work but I only work part time around his schedule because we can't afford daycare for two kids. My job is just basic retail stuff, nothing really interesting. Just something I could get that had flexible hours.


Just to be clear, there are two separate issues here. One is recovering from his betrayal, the other is building a new relationship with him. You cannot ignore either one if you are to have a successful reconciliation. Yes, you are early in the process, but I just wanted to be sure you don't gloss over the affair in your quest to build a good new marriage.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I'm certainly not glossing over the affair, but as the counselor said, I'm only control of myself and my actions and reactions in the marriage. Instead of focusing on all he should be doing and controlling that, I should do things that I can control that will help move the process along either to rebuilding the relationship. One of them is identifying things I want to improve to see if I can improve them and if I can do it in a way that shows I'm open to reconciling when he takes ownership for his stuff.

He said one of the things that hurts during reconciliation is a complacency that the betrayed spouse takes on, where they feel that the response to everything is "well yeah, but you had an affair." He said an important exercise for me that will show I'm in a place where I can move forward is by trying to fix my end and see if putting in the work is tinged with the resentment of "well you had an affair."

Honestly it's harder than I thought. There's been more than once where I feel like I can use that as an excuse to not try. But every time I do that, I'm telling him I say I can move past it but I can't, and I'm not dealing with my resentment which means I can't move past it either. Like the counselor said, I can't let what he did that was awful turn into an excuse I willingly lean on because then we will never move forward. 

Getting to a spot where I can take him back was easy but getting to a spot where I can start to think about how move on is really darn hard. It just controls my thoughts all the time it feels like. I don't want it to dominate me and how I behave myself but that's so much easier said than done. 

A lot of what's happened is really sinking in. I don't regret begging him to stay or trying to make it work at all. I really don't. But thinking of all the work is starting to make me feel, I don't know. Anxious? Cagey? It's hard to describe. It's more depressing than feeling overwhelmed but not as awful as feeling defeated. 

Before what was making me crazy was the sex. Him touching her and her touching him and all that just made me ill. Now it's strange. That doesn't bother me half as much as the idea they were genuinely intimate on a deeper level. 

Before we got married, I had a history sexually. It wasn't like a shocking number, but it wasn't nothing. Some of those were encounters that didn't mean much on an emotional level beyond friendships (a true FWB sort of thing), it was just young me experimenting with my sexual nature. He only had 2 partners (unless we count oral too, then it was 3), one of whom was me and he's a year older than I am. With a religious background, he didn't want to experiment sexually despite having a strong drive unless he was in a committed relationship that was marriage-bound. 

So sex in a FWB situation, I get how that doesn't tug on you emotionally. It's still sex which isn't ok, but in the context of an affair, it's not as hard an issue to resolve for me mentally as sex with emotion behind it. Knowing that he was 24 with only 2-3 partners because he wanted sex to mean something and knowing he had sex with someone else, that's yanking on me mentally. There's sex, which is sex, then there's making love. One is way easier and way less scary to face than the other.

I want to ask him what it all meant but I'm scared this is where trust issues leak in. Whatever he says, I won't believe. If he said he didn't love her, then I'll think it's a lie because I know his conditions for having sex. If he says he did, I'll think it an unintentional lie built from the affair fog and rewriting our history to something bleaker than it was. 

Sorry for the ramble. Like I said, I have nobody to talk this out with that I trust. I feel like everybody wants gossip or front row seats to him or me or her or all of us falling on our faces.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild,

I get what you are saying about just sex vs sex+love. There is a huge difference. 

But there are a few things that you might want to contemplate.

Are his feelings for her really love? I don't think so. She was not filling all of his emotional needs. 

Marriage Builders calls it the love bank. Most people in marriage have a partially filled love bank because no one person can fill all of another person's needs. so generally there is about 3/4's of the love bank filled. Now along comes the affair partner and a relationship slowly develops. The AP is now filling that last 1/4 of the love bank... or 1/4 of his emotional needs.

Now he's in an emotional high we call the affair fog.

If you were to kick him out, the affair would die off pretty quickly. Why? Because you would no longer be filling the 3/4's of his love bank. Now he would be relying on her to do that. And that was not what she signed up for. Only about 3% of affair last very long at all once the couple is in a position to depend on each other only to meet each other's needs.

An affair is a fantasy that is built on and requires that the spouse continue to be in the picture. That's why people work so hard to keep affairs hidden. On some level they know that the affair is just a fantasy. They need their spouse. 

All studies that I have seen, men rarely leave their wife for an affair partner. It's because it's their wife who they need/love.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

There's what I think and there's what he thinks and what I think doesn't matter until he realizes it too. I think it's 100% affair fog. I don't know that he'd say the same. I could say it until I'm purple, but until he realizes it, it doesn't matter what I know or you know or anybody else knows.

If I were to kick him out I don't know if it would end or not but I do know he wouldn't come back. He says he had girlfriends pull a game of "relationship chicken" with him and it instantly turned him off. I believe that too since the girl before me, the other girl he slept with, told him to commit or she'd break up with him. He said he couldn't right then so she dumped him and he said that killed any chance at a future they had. I almost made the same mistake and I saw how pushing him to the door in the hopes he'd crawl back almost blew everything up. Considering our trust issues, I can't risk it.

Even then, I also know the affair would go on for at least awhile and I couldn't take him back after throwing him out knowing I gave him unfettered access to her and is only back now because I'm his in case it doesn't work plan. I don't want him back after he gets it out of his system or it falls apart. It feels too much like putting the marriage on pause so he can explore and then picking up again after his options have run out. I'm not his choice then, even if he does come crawling back. I'm his backup plan because it's easier to go back than start over alone. 

Plus the mental stuff that is have to shovel through while our marriage was paused would be just too much for me to even deal with. Especially if he goes over thinking and planning us being done and that's his new forever they enter into financial obligations together, like an apartment together or God forbid a pregnancy. 

I can deal with a slip up and a correction, even if I force the ball rolling on the correction. An all out pause that's basically a breakup where he puts their life on a trial basis to see if it'll hold water or not and wandering back if it doesn't? It wouldn't matter how remorseful he was. I couldn't do it.

This really is the best option figuring in what I know about him and what my own limits are. I'd rather he says in a year he didn't want to end his affair but I forced him to and now he's starting to see through the fog into reality and eventually maybe he's glad for the tough love, than him saying in a year I kicked him loose and he tried it and it didn't work and he wants to come back. Or worse, I kicked him loose and now we are over regardless because I gave up first and didn't want to try and the ember that's clearly there in him now that's willing to try is totally squashed.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

And the other thing, I get what you're saying that I'm filling 3/4 of the tank and she's filling 1/4 and when she has to fill it all up she'll bolt because that's not what she signed up for.

It what if it is what she signed up for? 

I still don't know if this was a plan between both of them, my husband's response to being caught and avoiding consequences, something that he was doing in the hopes she would eventually do to, or something else. I haven't heard from her at all and I haven't asked him because we are only supposed to tackle triggering issues in front of the counselor until I can get my negative self talk and self defeating monologue under control. I don't k is what their investment in each other was, just what his lack of investment in us was. He said he was leaving for her, but I'm not sure what her circumstances were. Ready and waiting? Leaving after he left? Empty promise she thought she'd keep but couldn't? Empty promise she had no intention of keeping?

I hate thinking about it because it leads me in mental circles, but I only know what one half of the plan was, and even then only very superficially. I don't know the whole plan. I feel like it shouldn't matter, but it does. If she had no intention of truly being with him, yes it would die quickly. But if she did? 

I guess it doesn't matter because as soon as I kick him out, he's not coming back. Even if she didn't intend on leaving.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> And the other thing, I get what you're saying that I'm filling 3/4 of the tank and she's filling 1/4 and when she has to fill it all up she'll bolt because that's not what she signed up for.
> 
> It what if it is what she signed up for?


The affair is formed on the existing condition.. that she met the 1/4 of his needs. That is the reality of it. It's like banking an applesauce cake and leaving out the applauses... you can call it an applesauce cake all you want after it's baked, but thee ain't no apple sauce in that cake. (I use this exampled because I did this once as a teen... left the applesauce out of the applesauce cake.) This is why 97% of affairs never make it in the long run.



Fairchild said:


> I still don't know if this was a plan between both of them, my husband's response to being caught and avoiding consequences, something that he was doing in the hopes she would eventually do to, or something else. I haven't heard from her at all and I haven't asked him because we are only supposed to tackle triggering issues in front of the counselor until I can get my negative self talk and self defeating monologue under control. I don't k is what their investment in each other was, just what his lack of investment in us was. He said he was leaving for her, but I'm not sure what her circumstances were. Ready and waiting? Leaving after he left? Empty promise she thought she'd keep but couldn't? Empty promise she had no intention of keeping?


If she was going to leave her husband, she would have done it. It's not hard to do these days.

If he was going to leave you, he would have done it.



Fairchild said:


> I hate thinking about it because it leads me in mental circles, but I only know what one half of the plan was, and even then only very superficially. I don't know the whole plan. I feel like it shouldn't matter, but it does. If she had no intention of truly being with him, yes it would die quickly. But if she did?


If she was going to leave her husband, she would have. When a person really wants to end a marriage, it's not hard at all.



Fairchild said:


> I guess it doesn't matter because as soon as I kick him out, he's not coming back. Even if she didn't intend on leaving.


Ok, don't spend a lot of time mulling over all the what if's. Deal with what exists today.

It takes 2 to 5 years for a betrayed spouse to heal from infidelity. You have your work cut out for you. He has a lot of work to do to. That's where your focus needs to be.. on the work that you need to do right now. Hopefully you get that book soon. Once you have read that, there is more. But that book I step one.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is some reading for you. It's in line with the book. It talks about Plan A and Plan B. You are in Plan A right now.

What Are Plan A and Plan B?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> He said one of the things that hurts during reconciliation is a complacency that the betrayed spouse takes on, where they feel that the response to everything is "well yeah, but you had an affair." He said an important exercise for me that will show I'm in a place where I can move forward is by trying to fix my end and see if putting in the work is tinged with the resentment of "well you had an affair."


The book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring covers a lot of these kinds of aspects for both the betrayed and the betrayer. Both of you will have issues the other won't expect.

This is a process which takes time. While it may be smart to not beat him over the head about having the affair, there comes a point where you need to know that he understands the enormity of what he did and he repents. Again this is about the 2 different parts of what has to happen. The infidelity must be healed (Part A), and then the new relationship must be built (Part B).

I think when you get into the "well yeah, but you had an affair" dynamic it could indicate you are feeling he _just doesn't get it yet_. He is blame shifting onto you for his affair. You were a bad wife because you ABC, and then the unstated subtext is that is why he wasn't happy and it led to his affair. This shows that you need more healing from his betrayal, and it shows he hasn't yet fully owned what he did.

What might be true and fair is that you did something less than perfect as a wife and it caused him to feel disconnected or unsatisfied in the marriage. This is good stuff for Part B where you work on building a better marriage. We are all imperfect spouses, so let's do our best to have a positive attitude and not get too hurt when discussing how to improve as a spouse.

But that has nothing to do with his decision to cheat. He has to own that, which means he doesn't blame shift or minimize what he did.

It also means it should be clear within the discussion whether you are working on Part A which is healing from his infidelity or you are working on Part B which is learning to be a better couple. Sometimes things get mixed up where one of you is talking a Part A issue while the other is talking a Part B issue.

(Note Part A and Part B are not at all related to the Plan A and Plan B Ele linked to above)


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

"A slip up and a correction, even if I'm forcing the correction".

This isn't reality talking, this is hopefulness and emotional distress thinking.

He had an affair and told you he wants to leave, that he never loved you like her and doesn't want you anymore.
You are disregarding the fact that he doesn't even want to reconcile, certainly not remorseful.
You are listening closely to people who are telling you what you want to hear. You want to think you can work this out.

I am hoping you and they are right, but I doubt it.

The smart move is to ask him to leave and file papers. Let him come to you with a changed heart or not at all. Just because YOU want to rebuild your marriage, doesn't mean it's possible with these circumstances. I hate to see you waste time in pain.

The people like me who have been through what you're experiencing are being run down because we supposedly are biased and pro-divorce because we have been cheated on and divorced.
I didn't want divorce, I was like you. I chased my ex wife and tried to nice her back. As I said, I'm divorced, lol.
Take what advice you want to take and ignore mine. I know it feels better to listen to people that think you have a workable plan. I don't.
I think it's going at the problem from a position of weakness and will blow up in your face and you will cause yourself extended pain.

But I do wish you the best of luck and success at whatever you choose. I just mostly hope that even if he stays for years, it's because he finds live for you again.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I'm excited to get the book, I'm just waiting until Monday when he goes back to work. I want to chance to read it without him there. I kind of want this to be in my toolbox and not something for mutual consumption. 

Thank you for the feedback and the validation that I'm feeling like I feel for a reason. It's nice to not feel alone sometimes. 

Again, I appreciate the concern but I'm not considering divorce or separation.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Thor said:


> The book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring covers a lot of these kinds of aspects for both the betrayed and the betrayer. Both of you will have issues the other won't expect.
> 
> This is a process which takes time. While it may be smart to not beat him over the head about having the affair, there comes a point where you need to know that he understands the enormity of what he did and he repents. Again this is about the 2 different parts of what has to happen. The infidelity must be healed (Part A), and then the new relationship must be built (Part B).
> 
> ...


I don't think he's blame shifting, from what's been posted here about him. It seems like he's been up front with his feelings for the OW, even if he is in an ''affair fog,'' he told his wife he never loved her the way he loves the OW. I don't think it's realistic to compare an affair with a marriage, however, because the day to day responsibilities and details of life, etc is not as exciting as an affair with someone who allows the person to escape from all of that for a while. But, still. I don't see him as blame shifting, I see him as being pretty honest with his feelings, and it sounds like the only reason he may stay married, is because he can't have the OW. (because she's married) Or he fears divorce, etc.

I've read threads on here where affairs can change betrayed spouses for the better in terms of self respect. They sometimes seem to start out chasing the wayward spouse, in hopes that the marriage can be saved at all costs, but as time goes on, they learn more about themselves, and they grow stronger for it. Even if an affair ruins a marriage, it can still be a good turning point for betrayed spouses to learn that they are stronger than they once thought.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Fairchild said:


> He just said that she started as a friend, somebody he had a lot in common with, who was cool and fun to be with. Then he noticed that he looked forward to seeing her and would seek her out. Somewhere along the line he interpreted their close friendship as love. He didn't say specifically what triggered it except for how he felt. He alluded to them having more in common and he trusts her whereas we have very little in common and we have trust issues on both sides now.
> 
> Your husband has poor boundaries around women. If he wanted to do more things with you, he could have come to you with suggested activities instead of enjoying the ego kibbles of a female "friend." He's a married man. Married men don't get to date, which is what he was doing.
> 
> Her husband just emailed back and said to mind my own business and to leave him and her alone.


I'm sorry to hear that a grown man would say such a hurtful thing to a betrayed wife who's trying to save her family and has been humiliated enoug. This guy sounds awful.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think the h has been honest, except for the months of cheating he did. I personally think the word honesty associated with a cheater is an oxymoron lol. 
At least he did own up to all of it and try to be straightforward.

Things hapoen. Maybe there's a chance it will go better than most cases.....


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@Fairchild, for what it's worth I think you're a really mature and emotionally bright woman.

All I would offer at this point is that you try to keep your responsibility to the relationship compartmentalized from your responsibility to heal from the affair. Healing from the affair is your husband's job to help nurture and encourage. I understand what you meant earlier about picking up a ball that you'd dropped long ago. That is you trying to pick up your 50% of responsibility toward the health of the relationship. Your husband is still 100% at fault for the affair, regardless of whether you believe your negligence led him to it. The man still has a brain, an ego, and private parts and he let all of these things decide for him. You did not make him do anything he did not decide to do himself. I just want you to be sure that you are not charging yourself with fault that is more than your due.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I'm excited to get the book, I'm just waiting until Monday when he goes back to work. I want to chance to read it without him there. I kind of want this to be in my toolbox and not something for mutual consumption.
> 
> Thank you for the feedback and the validation that I'm feeling like I feel for a reason. It's nice to not feel alone sometimes.
> 
> Again, I appreciate the concern but I'm not considering divorce or separation.


I agree that you would do best to not let him see what you are reading. Sometimes the WS reads the book and then thinks that the BS is just playing games. It's not games. So keeping your plan to yourself is best at this point.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I think if he had said it to be malicious, then yes, it would be an awful thing to say. But one of the hardest things I have to face is that while my brain wants to hear it as a dig or attack, it's really not. He's answering with an honest but painful statement that was the thread of a thought process to his not only having an affair but justifying it in his mind.

I know you guys won't believe this but truly, this isn't him as a person. He is a good guy. Yes we but heads but even at or worst before this I can honestly say I never stopped thinking he was a good guy. He's a wonderful father and provider. Even when it was hard he was emotionally attentive. This is such a personality fluke that to hard to even believe it's the same guy. I know everybody says that, it's stupid and cliche at this point. In this case it's really true. 

The more we meet with our counselor the more understand how his perceived trust violations on my side really messed with him. I'm not saying this as an excuse and neither is he. I guess it's that I now have a deeper understanding of a lot of what was wrong with our marriage: we're crap at communicating. That has given us both opportunities to really fail at our marriage with the affair being the straw that broke the camels back. The thing we couldn't ignore and had to deal with.

I'm really aware this isn't my fault and I'm not taking the blame on this. I know he has work to do. I'm just trying to focus on what I can control. So much of this feels totally beyond my control. I really feel a lot of sanity in working my own checklist. It feels like not so much depends on him and anticipating success to not have my expectations met or dwell on the failures. This way even if everything falls apart I can look at myself in the mirror and say I truly tried without pinning everything on him.


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Fairchild,

My situation was very similar to yours. My husband had what he claimed was just an emotional affair, but in reality it's highly likely the affair had become physical. This was 4.5 years ago now. Like you, I could not even fathom divorce. I was so emotional, hysterically begging him to stay with me. Like your husband, mine said that he wanted to leave me. He didn't specifically say it was for the OW but of course that was what he was thinking at the time. We have one child. I work and would have done okay financially if we split. Especially with child support too. But the overwhelming emotions I felt at that time, wow, I was so blinded.

He decided he needed a weekend away to think. He went to see a college friend and his wife out of state. That I can verify, it wasn't to see the OW. He came back and told me "okay, let's give it a try." Wow, what a ringing endorsement of our 10 year marriage at that point. I went to IC, but he refused MC or IC. He supposedly went no contact with the OW, but I was not privy to that phone call. I felt such relief though, such amazing relief that he had "picked me." 

The OW was not a direct coworker, but in his line of work and someone he could run into at meetings. I got access to his work email and phone. In the following years I saw that OW had called him at least twice at work. When I confronted on this, he said they were just hang up calls. She also wrote him one email referring a client. That's what I know. 

He has since articulated, once, maybe twice, that that whole incident was the worst mistake of his life. And he has said things like "I'm so happy we're all together" (meaning with our child too) quite often. But other than that, he does not want to revisit the affair at all. Rugswept. He has generally treated me well, compliments me, says he loves me, but he works very long hours and is not home a lot. He also at times can have a temper and mood swings (pre-dated the affair), and as a result can be a verbally abusive jerk. 

Long story short, like another poster (Bad Memory I think) said here, the relief you feel from having him "choose" to stay dissipates. Then I realized "what the [blank] just happened?", but he was way into insisting on rugsweeping at that point. That's when resentment sets in. The resentment has become a part of who I am. Yet, like you, I see my husband's good qualities as well and have been weighing the good versus the bad this whole time. Part of me thinks it would be unfair for me, after all this time, to just say "you know what, I can't get over what you did." That makes me wish I had ended it at the time.

For me, our marriage has not recovered and never will. Like other TAM members in "false" reconciliations, I have hung in there. Maybe for our child, maybe out of fear. I don't know. Part of me thinks I'm just waiting till our child is grown. Part of me thinks I will catch him in another affair, giving me a "better" reason to end it than I just can't get over what happened in the past. I know that's crazy.

I just wanted to share this with you so you can see what it looks like when a marriage limps along. Like another poster (Deidre) said about some betrayed spouses, I have learned a lot about myself during this period, but obviously I am still very much conflicted. And my husband got away with something with no consequence.

I wish you all the best.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I think if he had said it to be malicious, then yes, it would be an awful thing to say. But one of the hardest things I have to face is that while my brain wants to hear it as a dig or attack, it's really not. He's answering with an honest but painful statement that was the thread of a thought process to his not only having an affair but justifying it in his mind.
> 
> *I know you guys won't believe this but truly, this isn't him as a person.* He is a good guy. Yes we but heads but even at or worst before this I can honestly say I never stopped thinking he was a good guy. He's a wonderful father and provider. Even when it was hard he was emotionally attentive. This is such a personality fluke that to hard to even believe it's the same guy. I know everybody says that, it's stupid and cliche at this point. In this case it's really true.
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying. People have affairs for different reasons. There is a subset of cheaters who are good people who, for some reason, lose their way. Sometimes I think of it was some sort of emotional breakdown. Those are the once who can come back into a marriage and even make the marriage better than it was before.

I know some people like this in my real life. Guys who cheated and who were able to return to their marriage. They never cheated again. One in couple in particular has been married now 17 beyond the affair. They are one of the strongest couples I know.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I get your wholehearted desire to make this marriage work and it is laudable that you now see your role in the possible demise of your marriage. You indicate that his affair is solely his responsibility but I can't help but see from an outsiders point of view your haste in rushing into a reconciliation when you haven't really absorbed fully the enormity of where your marriage is or where in fact your WH is emotionally and mentally. 
You come across like a victim in shock, you are constantly rushing forward, hastening for solutions when the reality has not sunk in. In doing so, you are bearing the burden for his affair, your words say one thing but your actions are all saying something else entirely. I am concerned that in your haste you will crash and burn at some point when it finally hits you. You cannot nice this man back, you have to be prepared to lose this marriage to save it. Counter intuitive as it seems, you are currently swimming upstream against very strong currents and are not taking the time to be self aware and actually reflect inwardly instead of outwardly. Your focus is on him, it is laudible that you want to fix yourself but it is fixing yourself in relation to him only. This is not the way to go, you have to fix yourself whether he stays or leaves the marriage, there is a huge difference. If he leaves, what are you left with? That is why some here recommened the 180


Fairchild said:


> alshere's what I think and there's what he thinks and what I think doesn't matter until he realizes it too. I think it's 100% affair fog. I don't know that he'd say the same. I could say it until I'm purple, but until he realizes it, it doesn't matter what I know or you know or anybody else knows. But what matters to you as an individual does matter
> 
> If I were to kick him out I don't know if it would end or not but I do know he wouldn't come back. He says he had girlfriends pull a game of "relationship chicken" with him and it instantly turned him off. I believe that too since the girl before me, the other girl he slept with, told him to commit or she'd break up with him. He said he couldn't right then so she dumped him and he said that killed any chance at a future they had. I almost made the same mistake and I saw how pushing him to the door in the hopes he'd crawl back almost blew everything up. Considering our trust issues, I can't risk it.So you are going to hold onto him at all costs? That does not sound like a great plan
> 
> ...


 Your approach could also mean he thinks my wife will be there regardless, I am fed up with her again, let me go and check out what else is on offer. Maybe he is done, have you thought of that?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I get what you're doing and it's an interesting approach. Your narrative describing problems you created in the marriage is revealing.

You seem to be approaching this the same way you've dealt with things in the past - very self-focused, single minded, and with little apparent empathy.

I'm evaluating your self described behavior rather than critiquing your character BTW

You wanted to go off birth control so you just did. Obviously you didn't close the loop with your H because he didn't get the same message.

You spent time with the kid, exhausted yourself and saved no energy for your marriage.

Now you've plotted a course to drag hubby kicking and screaming back into the marriage and cancelling his play dates.

It may work if he's allowed you to bulldoze his wants and needs with yours in the past - and it sounds like he has allowed it.

If you are able to keep him tied to mast long enough, the allure of the sirens' song may well fade and he may get over the "distraction".

When he does you will want to show him with your actions that you prior self-focused ways are on the mend as well.

Good luck


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Fairchild said:


> Again, I've chosen to try and reconcile. I'd like some advice on that, not to be told I shouldn't want to and have no pride if I want him to stay.


You have stated this very clearly. You want to reconcile, but this is not about YOU therefore YOU can't fix it. If reconciliation in not a card offered and accepted by both parties, then you can't put that out there. It will get ignored like it has by YOUR spouse.

Learn to fold and let go. You are being stubborn with this attitude. Channel your willingness for fight in order for you to be healthier and better and not for a marriage that has been killed. *You can't beat a dead horse back to life* 

((((hugs))))

The sooner you allow your brain to take over and shut down your heart, you will start healing. If you don't do this, you will be in pain much longer than is necessary and the end result will be the same.

May you get the peace you so desperately need real soon!


You have accomplished nothing except wasting precious years on a dead marriage. It was probably dead a while back but you just can't let it go. I feel sorry for all involved. What a terrible fate awaits.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

You need to separate the issues- many women want more children while their husbands are reluctant and a second child is not excessive or unusual, IMO. Yes, you both should have had better communication about birth control but that's his responsibility as well.

Cheating on you is an entirely separate issue. I know MANY women in real life who pushed for that 3rd child and their husbands did not use it as an excuse to run out and have an affair.

Stop feeling guilty for your husband's lack of appropriate boundaries around women.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I'm not at the point where I want to think the worst of him or this process. I get people would leave or ask him to leave or do 180, but that's not for me and I'm nowhere near thinking that it is. Maybe he'll go back to being the man I married, maybe he's yucking it up with her about how stupid I am. I don't know, but I'm not going to assume the worst until I have a reason to. Even if they are, this is genuinely one of those situations where it says way more about them than me. 

I'm now one week past finding out. It feels strange that in just a week it feels like this has been a part of my life forever. So far he's stuck to everything I've asked and he's making efforts towards fixing things. He hasn't shot down joining me at counseling, it's just finding the gap where we can go together consistently is a challenge. But I settled into the new normal of things. 

I'm in this spot now where I feel like I have so much to share and talk about and ask, but when I go to talk about it, I've got nothing. I am struggling though with my need for his openness and my need for privacy and how that conflicts with what I'm asking. I am trying to balance a private space to work through things (here, books), but I don't want him to have the same. I'm worried this is a mixed message and against my promise to the counselor and myself to work on my openness. There's a line there, but I don't know where. 

I'm also getting back to some of my old hobbies and interests. It has frustrated me more than I thought I would. I've also signed up for some classes. It feels nice to have things to look forward to that aren't something productive.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I know this is against TAM mantra that the BS shouldn't take the blame, but....

Maybe you can start by talking about what YOU wish you hadn't done. Show the way. Apologize for ending up pregnant when he didn't know that was a possibility. Own that failure to really listen to him and understand where he was coming from. Frankly I think that is the core of his resentment. 

Take that bullet. Make no excuses.

Then ask him how he feels about it. And listen.

Give him a chance to be heard.

Only after he has been heard and you have listened without defending yourself or your actions, and have accepted his anger... ask him to talk to you about what has happened to him and how he feels about that.

This is nonstandard advice but you are approaching this "backward" from many people's perspective anyway. Why not be vulnerable to him first and see if he responds?


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> I'm not at the point where I want to think the worst of him or this process. I get people would leave or ask him to leave or do 180, but that's not for me and I'm nowhere near thinking that it is. Maybe he'll go back to being the man I married, maybe he's yucking it up with her about how stupid I am. I don't know, but I'm not going to assume the worst until I have a reason to. Even if they are, this is genuinely one of those situations where it says way more about them than me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I hope you know what you are doing because as you said, it's only been a week yet you are back to your old hobbies and have aigned up for classes. This to me sounds like you are not being realistic about your true feelings. Any normal person would still be in shock and dealing with the trauma, not working on hobbies or classes.


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## dianaelaine59 (Aug 15, 2016)

You're in denial ....


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

No, there's only so much time I can spend wallowing in this. Some of my most self defeating thoughts happen when he's at work and I'm at home with just the kids. Instead of giving into it, I'm putting the energy into something constructive. I'm creating a discussion that we can have that doesn't center on kids.

I want him to get better. I want him to get better. Finding ways to occupy myself, picking long lost hobbies during times I'd be spiraling seems a good idea. These aren't old hobbies from two weeks ago. They're hobbies pre-kids, things that made me interesting and happy when we were dating. Things we bonded over but stopped making time for because I was focused on kids, house, job, money, marriage, and all the other adult things.

If it's a question of understanding what it all means and feeling hurt, angry, and 1,000 other feelings, just me, I've got them. It's just I don't have the energy or strength right now to give into those feelings all the time. I want to do something besides feel miserable, wonder about my friends, and feel like I'm always being watched and judged.


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> No, there's only so much time I can spend wallowing in this. Some of my most self defeating thoughts happen when he's at work and I'm at home with just the kids. Instead of giving into it, I'm putting the energy into something constructive. I'm creating a discussion that we can have that doesn't center on kids.
> 
> I want him to get better. I want him to get better. Finding ways to occupy myself, picking long lost hobbies during times I'd be spiraling seems a good idea. These aren't old hobbies from two weeks ago. They're hobbies pre-kids, things that made me interesting and happy when we were dating. Things we bonded over but stopped making time for because I was focused on kids, house, job, money, marriage, and all the other adult things.
> 
> If it's a question of understanding what it all means and feeling hurt, angry, and 1,000 other feelings, just me, I've got them. It's just I don't have the energy or strength right now to give into those feelings all the time. I want to do something besides feel miserable, wonder about my friends, and feel like I'm always being watched and judged.




Why are you trying to "fix" yourself for him? You are trying to bring back all the "pre-kid" things back (all in a week's time) so you can bond. You really are in denial about the stuff that is truly happening. You may not see it but everyone else does. You are giving 150% while he just follows along most likely to get you off of his back. I can guarantee you that nobody changes overnight. 

Read your sentence "things that made ME interesting." Once again, he is responsible for the affair. STOP trying to fix yourself for him.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I know this is against TAM mantra that the BS shouldn't take the blame, but....
> 
> Maybe you can start by talking about what YOU wish you hadn't done. Show the way. Apologize for ending up pregnant when he didn't know that was a possibility. Own that failure to really listen to him and understand where he was coming from. Frankly I think that is the core of his resentment.
> 
> ...


I think this can be done but it has to explicitly be the Part B that I mentioned earlier, where the couple works on building a new better relationship. Talking about past mistakes is part of that. But it must be very clear that this is not extending any blame to OP for the affair. Yes, she is to blame for her part of the marital dysfunctions, but not for the decision to cheat. That is the danger here of her bringing up the unexpected pregnancy.

My wife did something similar, getting pregnant without my assent. Yes, it severely damages trust and love. It is a big issue which needs to be dealt with. I don't know that I would bring it up nearly this soon in MC though. The WS needs to get out of the fog and own his affair before the BS starts taking blame for her own mistakes.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I'm not trying to fix myself for him. I'm fixing myself for me. One of the things I don't like about myself is that I used to be a more well rounded person. I had diverse interests and abilities and hobbies. Somewhere along the way between young kids, finances, time, babysitters, and being an adult I lost those things. I decided that I can keep going like I was or I can make some changes. I know sitting around at home every day except for work and practical shopping is something that doesn't make me happy. I also know that it's a stumbling block in my self-narrative. So I'm fixing it. It makes me happy to look at my planner for the week and seeing something that isn't work, kids, house, kids, staying home, kids. 

Doing that is one of the things that made me interesting and I was proud of that. I was proud of how I used to sit at a table of strangers and be able to talk to them about how I spend my time and my interests. I liked that I had enough of them that it seemed no matter who I met or what friends I met, I had something to talk to them about. The fact that it gives me something besides kids to talk about and do with my husband is a bonus.

I honestly didn't think of him at all signing up for things. I thought about what I liked, thought about the times of the day that are hardest for me and how I can help myself, and I signed up for what fit our finances.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

He brought it up as something he thinks of as a turning point in the marriage. We discussed it together briefly but the topic as a whole is something that came up in my solo sessions. Right now we're getting the eagle eye view of what's going on with the counselor so we know where to start. I have a basic plan, he has a basic plan. That's all.

One of the terms of our sessions is we don't talk about it deal with this without the counselor to mediate it.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

One person says I'm in denial and molding myself to please him.

The next person sees that and says the opposite, I'm selfish. 

There's no pleasing everybody, which is why I'm worried about a small group of core people and their needs.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> One person says I'm in denial and molding myself to please him.
> 
> The next person sees that and says the opposite, I'm selfish.
> 
> There's no pleasing everybody, which is why I'm worried about a small group of core people and their needs.


I'm not sure where that 'you sound selfish' comes from. Nonsense. That is not helpful input at all.

Again, please take the input you feel is helpful and try to over look the rest. I know it's hard.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Fairchild 

If you feel that there is a poster whose input is not helpful or even hurtful, you can ask them to not post on your thread.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> No, there's only so much time I can spend wallowing in this. Some of my most self defeating thoughts happen when he's at work and I'm at home with just the kids. Instead of giving into it, I'm putting the energy into something constructive. I'm creating a discussion that we can have that doesn't center on kids.
> 
> I want him to get better. I want him to get better. Finding ways to occupy myself, picking long lost hobbies during times I'd be spiraling seems a good idea. These aren't old hobbies from two weeks ago. They're hobbies pre-kids, things that made me interesting and happy when we were dating. Things we bonded over but stopped making time for because I was focused on kids, house, job, money, marriage, and all the other adult things.
> 
> If it's a question of understanding what it all means and feeling hurt, angry, and 1,000 other feelings, just me, I've got them. It's just I don't have the energy or strength right now to give into those feelings all the time. I want to do something besides feel miserable, wonder about my friends, and feel like I'm always being watched and judged.


Like you said, you are only one week out. It takes 2-5 years to heal from infidelity. You are still taking baby steps.

I’m sure that half the time you feel like you are losing your mind.

You are actually doing great for the place you are at.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> @Fairchild
> 
> 
> 
> If you feel that there is a poster whose input is not helpful or even hurtful, you can ask them to not post on your thread.




True but that won't necessarily result in that person not posting. I believe I told her that a particular post she made seemed selfish.

It was based on her own posts where she explicitly called out all the times she didn't consider either the marriage or her H in her decisions ( I think but I'm getting old and it may not have been me or may not have been that issue)

I think it's important to get feedback from different perspectives. I have not been through infidelity and I have a stable, very LT relationship with someone who considers me in all decisions and vice versa. So I have no triggers and no ax to grind.

Selfish behavior, in particular, is often overlooked by the actor. It's common among moms - who interpret their behavior only (or primarily) though the view as a mother. What looks self sacrificing can also be very selfish from the view of the H. Most H don't want to feel that way so they ignore, suppress, etc but still build resentment. In fact, "motherhood" behavior can be very selfish to the H and marriage because most moms I know WANT to fully commit to motherhood and CONSCIOUSLY put other needs out of their mind. When days are filled 24/7 with work,housework, childrearing because the mom CHOOSES to meet her own needs and her perception of her childrens' needs this way as a mother, they can be shocked to later learn of the damage this has caused to their relationship.

So I don't expect OP to hear this but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be said.

BTW I am an equal opportunity poster - I post when I see positive behavior as well as questionable behavior. I would prefer to be wrong most of the time if it provides a TAM poster in distress help or insight sone of the time.

Also... I don't NOT support her approach here even though it's unconventional. (I can't say I support it because I honestly don't know if it will work and haven't been through this before)



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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jessica38 said:


> You need to separate the issues- many women want more children while their husbands are reluctant and a second child is not excessive or unusual, IMO. Yes, you both should have had better communication about birth control but that's his responsibility as well.
> 
> Cheating on you is an entirely separate issue. I know MANY women in real life who pushed for that 3rd child and their husbands did not use it as an excuse to run out and have an affair.
> 
> Stop feeling guilty for your husband's lack of appropriate boundaries around women.


Agreed. If he is using this as a excuse as to why he cheated that is wrong.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I commend you for sticking to your guns with wanting to make this work, but is your gut telling you anything? How do you feel to know that your husband no longer loves you and has slept with another woman? Are you fairly competitive by chance? Are you certain you can win him back?

I guess that if you want advice on how to keep trying, I would get myself into therapy, and start seeing a couple's counselor with my husband. This is going to take a lot of work, and if I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath on it working. I'm one of those women who've fallen out of love with my husband, and I not only don't know if it can be gotten back, nor if I want to keep trying. It's an awful feeling, and it feels like if I keep trying, eventually I'll just end up settling. Do you really want your husband to say to you, "okay fine I'll stay; you'll do". Some people are OK with that; I think my husband is one of them, and I think you might be too.

One other thing I'd do if I were you is start separating out some finances for yourself form your joint accounts before he separates ALL of it out for himself. I would also talk to a lawyer just in case. It's better to cover your butt and have things work out, then to not cover your butt, and be left empty-handed. 



Fairchild said:


> Again, I've chosen to try and reconcile. I'd like some advice on that, not to be told I shouldn't want to and have no pride if I want him to stay.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I wasn't consciously putting the kids and the rest before my husband and excluding him and I already said that I realize to the extent I was doing it and that I was trying to fix it. It's one of the reasons I'm taking classes. In the process of being a mom I didn't nurture him or myself like I did. 

Slapping back with my candid admission this is a mistake by writing a post calling me selfish isn't helpful, it's just a low blow. It's doubly hurtful to interject that you're not married, you're in a happy trigger-free relationship, but feel it necessary to call me names and insult me.

I didn't do these things consciously, it was gradual changes that happened over time. Do you have kids? If not I suspect understanding how this happens might be hard to do. 

I've already identified this is where I dropped the ball and how I'm working to change it. Restating what I already said I'm changing in a negative way and attacking me for it is not what I need right now and it's not helpful.

As for what my gut is telling me, I'm not getting a lot. I'm not a very strong gut thinker. I'm analytical and emotional, but not great on instinct. Or not great enough to base major decisions off of it. I'm a cautious person. 

How do I feel? It changes moment by moment. Sometimes I'm heartbroken, angry, jealous. Other times I feel dead inside when I hear it. It changes all the time. Sometimes I'm so upset I can't breathe, other times I look forward to the distractions on my horizons that will make it easier to deal with for an hour or so. I'm really trying to not let this swallow me whole. 

Winning him back. I'd like to think I can. Only time will tell. I just want a chance. I'm happy with a chance. I want to fix it but if it doesn't fix at least I want to say I did all I could. I couldn't live with myself if I just walked. No Im not a competitive person. I know what you're asking here and I honestly don't think of her a lot. Is that wrong? I did on that first couple of days, but not now. Maybe that will change as things progress, but right now I'm just me, kids, him.

The lawyer is a good idea but I'll think about it. Not sure how comfortable that makes me. Finances I'm not worried about. He would never take them and if he did, my family is close by and comfortable. They have stated they'd help.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

Also that isn't an excuse he uses. He's given me very few excuses. Just what happened and that it was his fault. He hasn't blamed me other than to say he'd fallen out of love with me. That hurts but it's not an excuse. It's how he feels.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

"I didn't do these things consciously, it was gradual changes that happened over time. Do you have kids? If not I suspect understanding how this happens might be hard to do."

I have kids. I empathize with you. I'd be very hurt, insecure, and scared in your position. Your husband is telling you the worst imaginable, IMO.

My advice is coming from a place to try to help you save your marriage based on what I know from the learning I've done. I had a situation with my husband that hurt me and made me feel insecure in our marriage, though it was not an affair. It was a red flag and a crossing of my boundaries though. I learned after talking to a marriage coach that I had to simply set a very clear boundary with the intention of separating if my husband was unable to respect it. As soon as I did this, our marriage greatly improved. I know my situation is minor compared to what you're going through, but I do know that unconditional love is not always possible in marriage. Boundaries are important.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I have 5 kids and have been married a long long time. Pointing out how you come off at times isn't slapping back or being insulting. You are being defensive. If you read my comments in the non emotional way they were written and intended then you might hear them differently.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The OP is going through enough already. Can yo try to post with more compassion? Of course she's emotional right now. Look at what she's going through.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

There's no way to interpret a post that simply says "you're selfish" in a different way. Since the post is gone I think I'm not the only one who thought it was rude.

If you have nothing helpful to share please don't post. Attacking me for a flaw I already identified and am trying to fix isn't helpful. I copped to it and I'm working to change it. Focusing on it and twisting it to sound like I'm negligent isn't helpful.

He'd, I agree unconditional love isn't always possible. I just never thought we'd be here. I agree about making boundaries and sticking to them. That's where I am right now. Clear boundaries. Clear expectations. I'm sure more will come once we get into counseling we will have more.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Simple question:

What consequences are you willing to enforce if clear boundaries are broken.

The problem some, including myself, have with your plan is that the only consequences you are enforcing as a result of your husband cheating and telling you he no longer loves you are for you to work on yourself and be more attentive to his needs.

We know you are hurting. People make mistakes when they are in a traumatic experience.
You have a lot of strength and perseverance. I just think its misdirected toward giving yourself consequences and none for your husband. I believe this to be a road you shouldn't take.
Trying to bring this to your attention.

Again, what are the consequences if he crosses your boundary?

I don't think there is a consequence, therefore there is no boundary, hence my fear he will continue seeing the other woman.
The other woman's husband is clearly a person of dubious character. I don't think he is of any assistance in reining his wayward wife in. I suspect she is a serial cheater, even.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I wasn't consciously putting the kids and the rest before my husband and excluding him and I already said that I realize to the extent I was doing it and that I was trying to fix it.


This happens to a lot of couples. Regardless of what happens with this marriage, learning all you can about your imperfections will help you in the future.



Fairchild said:


> I want to fix it but if it doesn't fix at least I want to say I did all I could. I couldn't live with myself if I just walked.


Perfect! Especially since there are kids involved. You are free to pull the eject handle at any time in the future if you decide it isn't working. It is way too soon to give up since he is seemingly on board with trying to save the marriage.

You are a bit unconventional considering that your H has said he was all checked out in the past. Normally that is not the case, and thus normally the strong move is to file for D. At least for this early part of the process I think you are making the right choice not to file. It may yet become what you have to do.




Fairchild said:


> The lawyer is a good idea but I'll think about it. Not sure how comfortable that makes me. Finances I'm not worried about. He would never take them and if he did, my family is close by and comfortable. They have stated they'd help.


Definitely see a lawyer to at least get accurate information about how things work where you live with your kinds of factors.

I would not recommend taking money from joint accounts, but I would be set up to do so if filing D becomes a possibility. I would set up an account in just your name. You can do it at your current bank. Personally I don't worry about him getting access to that account though many will say don't use the same bank. If he fraudulently gets access you can hammer the bank to reimburse you for their screw up! Anyhow, be set up to immediately transfer 50% of the funds where he can't take them. Also, a credit card in just your name.

Once you separate or file for D, you will need and want your own separate finances. It will take months to untangle everything even if you both cooperate.

As long as you don't try to hide assets there is nothing wrong with having your own accounts.

Your state website likely has divorce forms online. You should look at these to get an idea of what info you will need. You should gather all of this info now. Locate the kids' birth certificates, everyones' social security cards, passports, medical records, marriage certificate, deeds to property, titles to the cars, etc. It is stuff you should have hard copies of in your home fireproof safe or (locked) file cabinet anyway.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Oh, and I do agree you made clear you were cognizant of selfishness in the past.
People are just frustrated because you only want support for what they believe to be a proven ineffective solution to an affair;
and you have a self described history of ignoring input from others. 

We are all eager for you to have success in saving your marriage.
I think he must be a willing participant, and fear he isn't.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

He does have consequences for breeeching boundaries again. Depending what it is, he has to move out. From there we talk about separation and divorce. I just really don't want to go that route and I really don't want to focus on it with him sticking to the boundaries as we've described. I'm trying to focus on what I can do, because I can only control me. 

I just want to work on and fight for the marriage. Idk t want to immediately separate or divorce or 180 without trying to save what we have.

I have solo counseling and maybe I'll ask the counselor about the process to divorce. I just feel like if I call a lawyer, it will look like I'm expecting him to fail and send the wrong message. I just don't want to ask him to stay while I do things that make it look like I'm planning to leave. Same with the bank account. If we filed I wouldn't have to worry about money as I have family resources. I don't think he'd take the money either. We have almost no assets. 

I get what people are saying but I was straight forward that divorcing or 180 wasn't something I was entertaining from the beginning. When people gave that advice anyway and I said no, people got frustrated. I get that people think I should leave or pretend to leave to get him to stay, but I want to try to save this marriage more proactively. If he's not into it then time will tell and I will deal with it.

I'm not sure if the issue is that I'm not open to advice, or people here aren't open to giving anything beyond one type of advice and take it too personally when it isn't followed.

Either way, I don't want to keep restating my reason for doing what I'm doing or continue hearing I'm doing everything wrong. I want to focus on my marriage post affair and share progress and get support in line with the values and goals I have. I don't want to keep harping on what people think I'm doing wrong or why I'm to blame for what's going on.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

That's just it, NIBODY is blaming you for him cheating....
Nobody!

We have been through what you're experiencing. Nobody is arguing with your values, and most people believe in saving a marriage here. But, not at all costs. 

Usually the route you're taking doesn't work.
What you're doing is trying to work on your problems and hope he falls back in love with you. We all hope you're in the group of extremely rare people that happens to.
The route that also seldom, but more often works, is to file for divorce and ask then to leave and only attempt reconciliation if the cheater is remorseful and WANTS to come back to the marriage.

What you have is the worst possible combination--- a husband with no remorse and no love. 

We all see this as a situation that is irreconcilable. 
You are emotionally traumatized right now or you likely would, too.
Your values demand you stay married for life , and whereas I find that admirable, I see the pitfalls of your spouse knowing you will tolerate what you have. No judgement here. I wanted to reconcile with my cheating wife who didn't love me, also. I tried to nice her back (although I didn't know she was cheating at first, and kicked her out when I found out and she continued the behavior--- but I'd have taken her back if she would have wanted that, like a fool.). It failed miserably and cost me untold extra pain. Hence, my fear for you as well.

So....,.....

I think you making him move out and filing if he breaks no contact is wise. Also, I think your exposure was good. The OW's husband is a nut job. "None of your business" lol, ok. I translate that into " my wife cHeats all the time, your h is just the next in line, I'm a cuckold and am embarrassed-- bug off".

I hope I'm wrong about the chain of events I foresee.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> I'm not sure if the issue is that I'm not open to advice, or people here aren't open to giving anything beyond one type of advice and take it too personally when it isn't followed.


Typically the cheater doesn't want their marriage to end. Typically what we see is the cake-eater who wants their family plus their fun on the side. When they get caught they don't want divorce. They play all kinds of games to keep the betrayed from divorcing them, meanwhile trying to keep the affair humming along somehow.

Which is why exposure is so critical. In the typical case it makes it very difficult to keep the affair going, and it takes the illicit fun out of it. If the AP is married, exposure may result in the AP withdrawing from the affair.

Filing for divorce has the power of Shock and Awe. The cheater suddenly sees the fantasy world evaporating. They will lose access to their kids, they will suffer financial hardships, they'll face the possible stigma of divorce. They know they can't keep cake-eating. They have to decide either to work to save the marriage or to gamble on their AP. If they stay, they have to do A+ work to try to stop the divorce. If the BS doesn't file, the WS only has to do D- work, just enough to keep the BS from filing. Enter trickle truth, underground affairs, blame shifting, etc.

So that is the background on why you're getting so much pressure to file. It really is the best move for the typical case. We see lots of those here, and we see lots of BS really screw it up and cause themselves much more pain than necessary by not filing and trying to Nice their spouse back.

But your case is somewhat atypical imho for the specific reason that your H has said he was emotionally done with the marriage and was prepared to leave. Filing on him would risk him just saying ok, see ya later. Imho you are on the right track with boundaries and consequences, along with MC. You have to ensure he has ended all contact with OW. See the Plan A and Plan B which Ele linked to earlier.

The caution I offer is your timeline should be short. I would suggest 60-90 days commitment from both of you to really work on it, with an open door no begging at the end of that time if one or the other of you decides it isn't working to just amicably split up. Even after those 60-90 days I would then suggest something like another 6 months to see big improvements. Time is burning away, so I wouldn't waste any if you just aren't seeing good happy times before long.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> He broke up with her over the phone and said basically all that.


And the very next morning, the moment he was out of your sight, he called her and apologized for that blunt, hurtful phone call he was forced to make by YOU, and told her he didn't mean any of it and that they'd have to be more careful going forward so they're not caught again as he's appeasing you.

But if you REALLY think they 'broke up' and he's gone NC with her, you'd be very wrong.



> ...the first sign of real resistance and he gave her up and resumed marital intimacy hours later. So at the very least she has questions about how special what they shared truly was since I'm sure she knows we weren't having sex that frequently.


He'll lie about that to her too. Either he'll tell her he forced himself to do it and made sure it was over as fast as he could make it, or he'll tell what most married liars tell their girlfriends - that he never touched you and* hasn't* since the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Don't put any faith in this liar.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

He told his own wife he didn't love her and that he wanted to leave her. That he's never loved her like he did this other woman. So I don't know that the breakup with her wasn't honest. But like you, o think there's a 99.9% chance that this affair is NOT over. If it was, OP's h would be totally depressed and sick. OP doesn't describe him that way. So I expect it's ongoing


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Fairchild said:


> He does have consequences for breeeching boundaries again. Depending what it is, he has to move out. From there we talk about separation and divorce. I just really don't want to go that route and I really don't want to focus on it with him sticking to the boundaries as we've described. I'm trying to focus on what I can do, because I can only control me.
> 
> I just want to work on and fight for the marriage. Idk t want to immediately separate or divorce or 180 without trying to save what we have.
> 
> ...


I understand as best as I can, but you posted something earlier about ''dropping the ball'', that you dropped the ball in the marriage, and while that's not to blame for his affair, you still stated that. So, suppose you drop the ball again? Will he cheat again? Cheating isn't a reaction to you dropping the ball, it's a character defect, and he's told you he never loved you like he loves the OW. That isn't a response to you dropping the ball, and when I read your story here, and others like it, I just worry for you and others that you're so fearful of the unknown, that you just settle for someone who treats you badly, than examine where your fears are actually coming from.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Fairchild said:


> He does have consequences for breeeching boundaries again. Depending what it is, he has to move out. From there we talk about separation and divorce. I just really don't want to go that route and I really don't want to focus on it with him sticking to the boundaries as we've described. I'm trying to focus on what I can do, because I can only control me.
> 
> I just want to work on and fight for the marriage. Idk t want to immediately separate or divorce or 180 without trying to save what we have.
> 
> ...


Fairchild, I really hope that the work and effort you put in pans out for you. It is not that people have vastly different values than you, I for one believe in marriage and working at it. i think what people are trying to tell you is that no-one was ever able to nice a wayward back into a marriage and usually the scorched earth approach shakes them into reality, the latter approach has been proven time and time again. 
Many people go your route but end up with another A and the rug sweeping ends up destroying the trust so that many years later the couple are miserable.
I hope this does not happen and that you yourself are ok. I worry about you as you are very outward focused.


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## Fairchild (Mar 23, 2017)

I haven't mentioned that my husband is depressed and sad because last time I did, I got a chorus of "who does he think he is for moping, he should. E kissing your feet."

I never said that me dropping the ball on one aspect of the marriage was an excuse for his cheating. He didn't even say that. 

I want to work on my marriage, I'm called a doormat, I'm scared, I'm this, I'm that. I'm not. I'm a woman who was in a marriage that was fine two weeks ago and off the rails a week ago who can't just flip off like a switch how I feel about the father of my children and my partner of more than half a decade.

He shows no evidence of talking to her or breaking any of the boundaries we had set. But if I say that I'm told I'm wrong, the affair is still going on, and imply I'm too naive to know. 

I say that I don't want to jump to threatening divorce or leaving or do a 180, I'm told that's wrong and even though I've said repeatedly I won't, people keep hammering me with it over and over. Then when I don't want to do that, I'm told I don't listen, I'm wrong, or I'm browbeaten with another post about why I should do it. Maybe I am wrong. Even if I am I don't lose anything I wasn't losing already. I'm not out anything doing what I'm doing, but have more to gain.

Frankly, I don't have the energy to keep explaining myself and defending myself. People tell me to find a hobby, which I did and it helps, but then I'm selfish or not adequately sad. He shouldn't mope, he has to man up, but I don't say he's moping and it's because he's still cheating. It's exhausting.

I really wanted to find people who were in my boat, hear some stories, support each other. I feel like I have to do more defending of myself than is reasonable because I didn't drop everything to go the route people think I should. The only times I've ever felt like this affair was my fault was reading comments on here. I'm not sure it's particularly good for what I'm going through.

Thanks to those who helped and shared and gave advice. It was nice to not feel like the only one in the world who'd dealt with this. It was nice to not feel alone. I wish you the best and I hope you wish the same for me. Take care, friends.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fairchild said:


> He does have consequences for breeeching boundaries again. Depending what it is, he has to move out. From there we talk about separation and divorce. I just really don't want to go that route and I really don't want to focus on it with him sticking to the boundaries as we've described. I'm trying to focus on what I can do, because I can only control me.


You are 100% correct in your approach here. You can only control yourself. If he is going to mess up again, that’s 100% on him. But right he’s not messing up again so you go with that.


Fairchild said:


> I just want to work on and fight for the marriage. Idk t want to immediately separate or divorce or 180 without trying to save what we have.


If you want to save your marriage, then divorce makes no sense, does it? Not as long as he is at home and working on recovery with you.

Separation is also not the solution right now because again, he’s doing what you requested of him. If you separate, the chances of divorce and no recover go exponentially.

Also, it makes no sense to do the 180 right now (the 180 linked to below in my signature block). The 180 clearly states that this is the way you interact with a spouse who is actively cheating. You follow the 180 until the cheating spouse goes no-contact with their affair partner, ends the affair and agrees to work on the marriage.


Fairchild said:


> I have solo counseling and maybe I'll ask the counselor about the process to divorce. I just feel like if I call a lawyer, it will look like I'm expecting him to fail and send the wrong message. I just don't want to ask him to stay while I do things that make it look like I'm planning to leave. Same with the bank account. If we filed I wouldn't have to worry about money as I have family resources. I don't think he'd take the money either. We have almost no assets.


Sometimes people see a lawyer just so that they know what their rights are in divorce. You don’t have to see a lawyer to find that out. The info is all over the internet. There are books with the info for each state. And each state has a self-help divorce website to get that info. 


Fairchild said:


> I get what people are saying but I was straight forward that divorcing or 180 wasn't something I was entertaining from the beginning. When people gave that advice anyway and I said no, people got frustrated. I get that people think I should leave or pretend to leave to get him to stay, but I want to try to save this marriage more proactively. If he's not into it then time will tell and I will deal with it.


Here on TAM, most of the advice is to divorce and end the marriage if there is infidelity. That’s the advice you are getting here. You want to save your marriage. Stick to your guns. Did you read the book yet?


Fairchild said:


> I'm not sure if the issue is that I'm not open to advice, or people here aren't open to giving anything beyond one type of advice and take it too personally when it isn't followed.
> 
> Either way, I don't want to keep restating my reason for doing what I'm doing or continue hearing I'm doing everything wrong. I want to focus on my marriage post affair and share progress and get support in line with the values and goals I have. I don't want to keep harping on what people think I'm doing wrong or why I'm to blame for what's going on.


It’s that a lot of people on TAM are not open to giving you the kind of advice that you need for your stated goals. If you have read the book yet, you would know that you are on the right path. I am certainly open to giving you support with the path you have chosen. A few others probably are as well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Fairchild

Please check your PMs (private message)


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

.. Carry on then


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Fairchild said:


> I*'m in this spot now where I feel like I have so much to share and talk about and ask, but when I go to talk about it, I've got nothing. I am struggling though with my need for his openness and my need for privacy and how that conflicts with what I'm asking. I am trying to balance a private space to work through things (here, books), but I don't want him to have the same. I'm worried this is a mixed message and against my promise to the counselor and myself to work on my openness. There's a line there, but I don't know where.*
> 
> I'm also getting back to some of my old hobbies and interests. It has frustrated me more than I thought I would


Well... you'd better find your voice and ask all of the questions you have, and to express all your feelings. If you dont, this whole thing will get swept under the rug and never resolved. He will never do the heavy lifting required to earn your trust and fix the marriage. Which by the way, is required of the WS, and if he has no remorse over what he's done, and you act like its all ok, your R will be 100% false. And you will find yourself right back in this same situation. He doesnt sound remorseful to me, just regret at getting caught. 



Fairchild said:


> He brought it up as something he thinks of as a turning point in the marriage. We discussed it together briefly but the topic as a whole is something that came up in my solo sessions. Right now we're getting the eagle eye view of what's going on with the counselor so we know where to start. I have a basic plan, he has a basic plan. That's all.
> 
> *One of the terms of our sessions is we don't talk about it deal with this without the counselor to mediate it*.


How in the hell are you supposed to fix it then?? You cant pretend nothing is going on and expect that in a single hour every week or every other week that ALL your issues can possibly be addressed! Not to mention that you have to actually get him there in a session with you to begin with.


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

Yout marriage was not fine two werks ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> True but that won't necessarily result in that person not posting.


In a thread like this one where the OP is asking for input on something personal, the OP can ask that a user not post anymore on their thread. And sure, technically the user has the ability and software permissions to post on the thread. But the moderators will enforce the OP’s request by deleting posts and/or giving the user who keeps posting at the objecting the OP a time-out ban or worse.

Now a third party on a thread cannot tell another poster not to post on that thread (unless that 3rd party is a moderator.)


TheTruthHurts said:


> I believe I told her that a particular post she made seemed selfish.


Not that is not what you posted. Here is your entire post:


TheTruthHurts said:


> Sorry but you sound selfish


Nowhere does it mention a particular post, or why you might come to this conclusion. There was nothing helpful in the post, only an attack on the OP.


TheTruthHurts said:


> It was based on her own posts where she explicitly called out all the times she didn't consider either the marriage or her H in her decisions ( I think but I'm getting old and it may not have been me or may not have been that issue
> 
> I think it's important to get feedback from different perspectives. I have not been through infidelity and I have a stable, very LT relationship with someone who considers me in all decisions and vice versa. So I have no triggers and no ax to grind.
> 
> ...


The OP is here on TAM only 1 week after what is probably the worst day of her life, the day she found out that her husband was cheating. She is bearing her soul here. Few BS’s come on TAM and are that introspective. 

Most marriages where there are children go through a period of time when the parents so overly focused on the children, earning a living and the business of raising a family. It’s not only the SAHM (or women) who tend to lose their way. Men (or the breadwinner) often does as well. I have no doubt that the her husband’s behavior could be dissected as well and he would come up short too (this is other than the affair). In most marriages that have problem, both spouses contribute to the problem.

I am sure that you are not perfect and would bet that if you honestly listed your contributions to problems in your marriage, you too would come off looking selfish or some other negative descriptive word. 


TheTruthHurts said:


> BTW I am an equal opportunity poster - I post when I see positive behavior as well as questionable behavior. I would prefer to be wrong most of the time if it provides a TAM poster in distress help or insight sone of the time.
> 
> Also... I don't NOT support her approach here even though it's unconventional. (I can't say I support it because I honestly don't know if it will work and haven't been through this before)


Actually, her approach is very conventional. It’s the approach used by many, if not the vast majority, of people who help marriages that experience infidelity recover from infidelity. It’s the method used by Marriage Builders and Divorce Busters…. Two groups that are very successful in helping couples recover from infidelity.

It might not be the usual approach on TAM, but TAM is made up of self-selected lay people who have no formal training and no experience in actually helping marriage recover from infidelity.

We on TAM are not here to tell people what they must do. We are here to give support in what they have chosen to do. It’s the OP’s right to choose to first try to save her marriage. As she has said, she will give this a chance. If it does not work then she will look at other alternatives.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I'm sorry the collective wisdom here wasn't what you want so badly to hear. Not sure if you're still reading here or not but I'm still going to post this.

The majority of people who replied to you thread have SEEN your story played out *thousands* of times. Many of us have LIVED your story, as well. You mistakenly think your situation is somehow unique and 'no one understands' but what YOU don't understand is that most members have *already* walked in your shoes or seen this situation played out so many times that we can tell you exactly how it ends. What you were being given is the collective wisdom of those who *made* all the mistakes you're making right now and are trying very hard to persuade you to change your course so you DON'T suffer the consequences of a false reconciliation.

Since very few here will delude you and simply tell you what you want to hear, your best bet is probably SI (SurvivingInfidelity). The members on the Reconciliation board will pat you on the back and tell you anything you want to hear because a lot of them swallowed their pride and dignity a LONG, LONG time ago "to save their marriages," and they still live with serial cheaters and/or disrespectful spouses who have continually **** all over them while they smile and accept it. 

Good luck to you.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'd also suggest you also visit SI, if you haven't already. It's just a different environment and community and its very likely the posters there will not browbeat you as much as you feel we have done. 

In all honesty, this site is the strong medicine you don't want but many think you need. Maybe SI with its more of a "spoonful of sugar" approach is more in line with what you need at this time. 

I'm absolutely not being snarky or sarcastic, I mean what I write. You will find supporters here, as @EleGirl wrote, but you will also find many who feel a bit triggered by your efforts. They hope those efforts are NOT in vain, but their own experiences have told them repeatedly that a common result is imminent. They do not wish that upon you. 

I'll bow out of your post and I wish you all the best.


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## mikky (Mar 29, 2017)

@Fairchild, You are a strong woman,i applaud your efforts 

Sent from my Infinix HOT 4 using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@EleGirl you've interpreted my posts in a way that is convenient to your perspective but is inaccurate. My post directly followed hers and is self explanatory. I did not call her selfish. You are too emotional to read what I have written without adding your own emotional content. That's ok if you want to but it doesn't represent what I said.

That said I have made my points which I believe offer insight though I suspect it will be overlooked or discarded which is fine with me. So unless something changes I see no need to post further on this thread. I might respond if my posts are misrepresented again but probably not 


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Satya said:


> I'd also suggest you also visit SI, if you haven't already. It's just a different environment and community and its very likely the posters there will not browbeat you as much as you feel we have done.
> 
> In all honesty, this site is the strong medicine you don't want but many think you need. Maybe SI with its more of a "spoonful of sugar" approach is more in line with what you need at this time.
> 
> ...


Actually, I think that the Marriage Builder forum is the place that would help her the most. She's basically doing what MB suggests but needs some guidance in doing it. MB works very well.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Has anyone pointed out that the 180 isn't supposed to fix your marriage, it's supposed to be for YOU, to improve your outlook on life and build strength in YOU. OP, you said in your first post that the 180 wouldn't work ON HIM, so I wanted to point that out.

I hope you're still reading here. I've been accused of running people off of TAM because I truly believe in what I post and sometimes I get a bit enthusiastic about it  It upsets me that SO MANY people think they can beg and plead and 'nice' their way into a storybook reconciliation, when it NEVER works. Anyone that does it and then thinks they're happy is delusional. Anyone that says they've been through a lot and that they need to work on the WS's trust issues with them 12 hours after finding out is just too inexperienced to know better. Any WS who isn't offering themselves up as a human sacrifice isn't worth the time and should be booted to the curb on their ass.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Any WS who isn't offering themselves up as a human sacrifice isn't worth the time and should be booted to the curb on their ass.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I sympathize with the OP, because in this type of thing, NOBODY wants to hear the truth. 
She's totally closed off to any advice that is negative toward her actions or toward her decision to reconcile with a husband that has told her he doesn't love her and is so unremorseful that he's even telling her he wants to leave the marriage.
What she's doing is going to most likely not just fail, but waste a lot of her life and cause her extended pain. 

But, it's do fresh that she is just unable to listen. I get it.
It's still a shame to be unable to take advantage of the experience others are sharing.

I probably shouldn't have posted on this thread, especially since her cheating husband is devoid of remorse and devoid of love for his wife. There is zero chance of reconciling with that scenario.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

The frustrating thing is there is zero chance of truly reconciling in this scenario because of how the OP is handling it. She's going by her emotions and in this situation, you can't do that. I agree that Marriage Builders is the best option for her since she badly wants to save her marriage. It has worked for many couples in her situation but dragging her husband uphill will not work long term.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

How are things Fairchild?


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