# Been Tryin' To Get Down To the Heart of the Matter



## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

It's been a while since I posted, and in addition to living my life, I've been doing some soul-searching, looking inward. I did a little bit deeper dive than I did before, and I think I may have figured out what my issues are. I am interested to hear your opinions, and also hear your suggestions and personal stories as to how you overcame what I'm going through.

I have issues with insecurity. Watching your ex-wife sext another man, then leave you, will do that. While I've done my best to get over insecurity, it's still prevalent in my interactions with Partners today.

Also, it appears I lack intimacy, meaning I'm not really opening myself up to my partner. A lot of this comes from former partners telling me about it, but I hadn't really been sure what this meant. For example, the girl I recently dated said that it was a problem I did not share what I was doing on the days I was not with her. She let me know everything that was going on, no matter when it was happening. While I figured she was just over sharing, I now realize it was very important to her. But part of my problem is I am not exactly sure what opening up means. I'm worried that if I get to open, if I share too much, become to vulnerable, I will turn my partner off. I am at an age, where I'm not entirely sure I can deal with another massive heartbreak of a divorce or being cheated on by longtime lover. So I'm sure that's why I hold back. But, regarding his last relationship, I personally didn't feel the need to share every little thing I was doing. In my mind, when we did get together, this provided as amplifier for discussions, debate, and sharing. Now I see this was very important to her.

What I am wondering, and would like some insight on, is what sort of emotional intimacy do you look for? What sort of opening up do you do? What goes too far? I feel that I need to get better with this if I'm to have a long, loving relationship. I turn 40 soon, and as I hit this milestone, I want to hit the ground running, and give all of myself to my next partner. I welcome any and all inside, and thank you for taking the time to read this long post.


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

You need to find either a partner that has similar personality traits as you, or one that is different but appreciates your reserved demeanor and the reason(s) for it. The girlfriend you mentioned sounds like she was just very interested in you, which is normal and good, but you got scared. And that's okay too. There is another current thread from the talkative lady's perspective, asking why her new Bo won't talk more. 

Why are you so timid? I understand the cheating ex-wife bit (been there), but were you quiet and reserved before that? if so then maybe you need to force yourself to interact with people more. Strike up conversations with strangers, people at coffee shops or bars, etc.. If you used to be outgoing but the ex really messed you up and made you timid, then you need to work on healing and re-affirming your confidence in yourself. I don't know man - I've always been able to walk up to a pretty stranger at a club and dance with her all night.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Did your ex-wife go on to be with the POSOM ? If I remember correctly, he was unemployed and living with his wife and her boyfriend. I was just wondering because it seems that split (understandably) hugely impacted your thinking and fears. It would be satisfying to know that the relationship did not work out in the end.

Also have you managed to still maintain a good relationship with your kids ? That in itself should be reassuring and building your confidence in yourself.

Believe it or not, your life so far has not been too different to many men I know - not all have had their oats sown before marriage etc. And many have had their confidence shaken. But you seem to have bounced back well and are, at least, asking the right questions.

Take care.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

Jayg14 said:


> I'm worried that if I get to open, if I share too much, become to vulnerable, I will turn my partner off.


I've thought the same thing. One of the basic tenets of human interaction in any relationship is that you have to know when, how, and how much to share.

Rather than going with your own conclusions, you might want to talk to a professional about your feelings of insecurity. I'm not saying that "you need help," but that it's helpful to have somebody qualified and experienced to guide you along the right path with your conclusions. A good counselor can also help you understand what "sharing" is and what's healthy and appropriate for you. You might find out that your date's idea of sharing isn't the most emotionally intelligent way to go about it. Some of us men tend to defer to women as naturally knowing these things, but they aren't necessarily the authorities that we buy into them being. Give their input appropriate consideration, but don't ever let them train you. Train yourself.


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## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

Maxwedge 413 said:


> You need to find either a partner that has similar personality traits as you, or one that is different but appreciates your reserved demeanor and the reason(s) for it. The girlfriend you mentioned sounds like she was just very interested in you, which is normal and good, but you got scared. And that's okay too. There is another current thread from the talkative lady's perspective, asking why her new Bo won't talk more.
> 
> Why are you so timid? I understand the cheating ex-wife bit (been there), but were you quiet and reserved before that? if so then maybe you need to force yourself to interact with people more. Strike up conversations with strangers, people at coffee shops or bars, etc.. If you used to be outgoing but the ex really messed you up and made you timid, then you need to work on healing and re-affirming your confidence in yourself. I don't know man - I've always been able to walk up to a pretty stranger at a club and dance with her all night.


I'm not timid as far as going up to talk to girls. I read a lot that I should be able to open to a partner, show *SOME* vulnerability, but oversharing kills attraction. I can, and have, talked to plenty of women; that's not the issue.

A bit more of a background: I don't personally feel the need to share what I'm doing constantly with my GFs. It gives us something to talk about when we are together, plus it allows both of us our space to be independent. For me, often, it's last minute when things pop up. I'm not gonna be like: "Heck yeah, man, let's go. Oh wait, I have to text the lady to let her know. What? No, she's not coming, she just wants to know where I am."


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## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

manfromlamancha said:


> Did your ex-wife go on to be with the POSOM ? If I remember correctly, he was unemployed and living with his wife and her boyfriend. I was just wondering because it seems that split (understandably) hugely impacted your thinking and fears. It would be satisfying to know that the relationship did not work out in the end.
> 
> Also have you managed to still maintain a good relationship with your kids ? That in itself should be reassuring and building your confidence in yourself.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I appreciate this. That relationship lasted all of about 3 weeks, lol. She dated one guy since, that we both know (he's a cool dude), but that fizzled after a month. She's done no dating since (she tells me, as if I care, lol). 

My kids are great. My eldest starts college in 3 weeks. He's 18 and too cool for me, but we're actually having nice, deep conversations and fun times together (when he's not working or hanging with his buds, that is). My daughter and I are getting along great. Having one-on-one time has made us closer.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Kudos on self examination. We all wish we had more insight into the human psyche.

It is normal to guard oneself from hurt. Often time is needed and connection must be there before true intimacy.

In my opinion this is more natural for women than men. It is so important to really LISTEN in a relationship--with ears and eyes (body language) and touch (how does she react?). Be genuine and caring and see how that works for you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You need to find something in your life that you can improve and feel some satisfaction for accomplishing.

You need to stop worrying about being “vulnerable” and “working in intimacy”.
You just have to be patient and find the right one. A relationship is easy with the right person, impossible with a poor match.

Develop some confidence. Insecurity only goes away when you start accomplishing things that show you why you are a valuable person.

And I think you’re right.... there is zero need to tell your partner every single thing that happens. You should be having fun talking about whatever. 

Just be you, start building a better life for yourself. Accomplish something. You’ll feel differently.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

When a woman says you need to share more it's usually that there is some underlying issue that she wants to address so you need to ask probing questions to figure out what it is. As others have said...in a healthy relationship there is no need to talk all the time and tell all of your whereabouts and activities. During the day you should be busy pursuing your career and shouldn't be available to talk to your GF, and she should respect you for that. If she were to contact you during your work day the standard response is "hey babe, I'm super busy at work again, but I'm thinking about you and can't wait to see you later!" and then you continue on with your day. If you become too available there is no challenge and then you become boring and predictable. 

To get over your insecurity you need to find success in whatever avenue is bothering you. If it is relationships then you need to date several different women to gain some experience in learning what you like/want and also to learn that you have options. Nothing destroys your insecurity more than knowing that you can swap out a poor partner for a better one with little effort.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm curious, was the issue not sharing information or not contacting her. If the latter, you can't do that...gotta let them know you are still there and thinking about them.

If the former, then I am confused by your posting. Emotional intimacy is not about sharing information about what you did during a routine day, it is about sharing details of your personal life. Surely small talk about your daily routine does not make you vulnerable, so your "issue" has to be more than that...it must be about sharing your personal history. In that case, your level of emotional intimacy should be based upon your level of comfort and trust with the person you are talking to. Have you considered that maybe you weren't comfortable enough sharing details of your history with her? Nothing wrong with that.

I think you are wise to keep your personal history and emotional weaknesses to yourself until you are sure that you feel comfortable discussing them with another woman. It's YOUR private life. How long were you with this woman who said you weren't opening up?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

When @Emerging Buddhist and I first considered dating, we had some issues along this line too, and I think our perspectives were similar to where you find yourself now. I was interesting in hearing what he was up to and how his day was shaping up, etc. because I liked the man...and he was not used to being either noticed or interesting! In fact, he was a little more used to being ignored and left to just do whatever. It threw me for a loop because he'd go "radio silent" for several hours and I'd wonder what happened...having no frame of reference to even guess. 

One thing that helped us a TON was for him to realize it wasn't a control or insecurity thing, but more like interest. It also immensely helped me when I followed him around at work on one of his "typical days" (I put that in quotes because there is no such thing), and then I realized "Oh this is what his life is like and why the radio silence." So I had a frame of reference, and he knew I was expressing curiosity and attention.

Now, as to your questions, you asked: 


> What I am wondering, and would like some insight on, is what sort of emotional intimacy do you look for? What sort of opening up do you do? What goes too far?


Here the sort of emotional intimacy I would aim for:
1. Love your own self--don't expect me to "make you feel ___". You are responsible for your own feelings.
2. Be able to identify your own emotional needs. You need to know what they are.
3. Be able to verbalize what your emotional needs are. I can't read your mind.
4. Be able to have needs met in and out of our relationship. Have friends and family and co-workers in your life.
5. Be able to identify and address unmet needs (yours and mine). 
6. Be able to make a clear, articulate request. It's not a request if I can't say "no"...that would be a demand.
7. Respond to requests with "yes", "no" or "I want to talk about how I can meet that request." You don't need to explain or talk me into seeing it your way--yes and no are fine all on their own. And maybe it's not a full-on "no" but a bit of a negotiation or a change. That's good too.
8. Be able to make and keep agreements. Don't go off and do things without consideration, and if you do agree, do what you say. 
9. Be able to NOT blame or shame if you do not keep an agreement. Everyone fouls up sometimes, but if you do, don't blame another or shame someone. Admit it and don't do it again.
10. Be able to address issues in the relationship without going in circles. Resolve things. Face them head on.
11. Be able to have honest conversations without fear or "punishment." Don't reward honesty with yelling. 
12. Be able to identify and share your fears. You need to know yourself and open up enough to share it. 
13. Be able to listen. Most people think about how they are going to respond instead of putting down THEIR opinion and listening. 
14. Be able to take personal responsibility.

As far as opening up, I actually hold myself to all those same standards and think of openness as transparency. What I mean is that I believe you let your partner SEE THE REAL YOU. You don't hide behind masks or let them continue believing a false impression, but rather, you willing share what is on your mind or heart. Likewise being open is INCLUSIVE, meaning that you include your partner in your day-to-day thoughts and actions, you consider how something might affect them, you include them in your life and activities. They aren't shut out. 

What goes too far? Hmmm...That is hard to define over the internet because one person may think "showing them my phone" is completely cool and another would feel it's an absolute violation of personal privacy! Different strokes for different folks! 

I would say it's up to the couple to define to a degree. I mean, if there are obvious trust issues from the past, it may well be worth it to acknowledge that you'd appreciate being able to trust AND verify...while also acknowledging to yourself that this new person isn't your ex and didn't burn you and you need to work on re-establishing trust within yourself. 

Too far would also probably be determined by how long you've been together. I mean first date and your all asking for whereabouts is a little much...two years together and it may be more reasonable. As you are together longer, I would think you'd open up more and more until finally there just is nothing "closed."


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## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

BigToe said:


> I'm curious, was the issue not sharing information or not contacting her. If the latter, you can't do that...gotta let them know you are still there and thinking about them.
> 
> If the former, then I am confused by your posting. Emotional intimacy is not about sharing information about what you did during a routine day, it is about sharing details of your personal life. Surely small talk about your daily routine does not make you vulnerable, so your "issue" has to be more than that...it must be about sharing your personal history. In that case, your level of emotional intimacy should be based upon your level of comfort and trust with the person you are talking to. Have you considered that maybe you weren't comfortable enough sharing details of your history with her? Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> I think you are wise to keep your personal history and emotional weaknesses to yourself until you are sure that you feel comfortable discussing them with another woman. It's YOUR private life. How long were you with this woman who said you weren't opening up?


There are 2 days a week I have my child with me, and i would not see her. She wanted to know what I was doing on those days I was with my daughter. She got mad if my kid and I did something and she didn't know about it. I thought that was a little extreme.


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## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

Affaircare said:


> When @Emerging Buddhist and I first considered dating, we had some issues along this line too, and I think our perspectives were similar to where you find yourself now. I was interesting in hearing what he was up to and how his day was shaping up, etc. because I liked the man...and he was not used to being either noticed or interesting! In fact, he was a little more used to being ignored and left to just do whatever. It threw me for a loop because he'd go "radio silent" for several hours and I'd wonder what happened...having no frame of reference to even guess.
> 
> One thing that helped us a TON was for him to realize it wasn't a control or insecurity thing, but more like interest. It also immensely helped me when I followed him around at work on one of his "typical days" (I put that in quotes because there is no such thing), and then I realized "Oh this is what his life is like and why the radio silence." So I had a frame of reference, and he knew I was expressing curiosity and attention.
> 
> ...


This post articulates what I've been wondering very well. Thank you for sharing!


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

That is a great template for maintaining a relationship. Some of it requires a great deal of insight into oneself, particularly when dealing with the mask. That will take a lot of work for some people (not said judgmentally, but just an observation).


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Jayg14 said:


> It's been a while since I posted, and in addition to living my life, I've been doing some soul-searching, looking inward. I did a little bit deeper dive than I did before, and I think I may have figured out what my issues are. I am interested to hear your opinions, and also hear your suggestions and personal stories as to how you overcame what I'm going through.
> 
> I have issues with insecurity. Watching your ex-wife sext another man, then leave you, will do that. While I've done my best to get over insecurity, it's still prevalent in my interactions with Partners today.
> 
> ...


*I'm pretty much in the same boat, @Jayg14 ~ except that I'm fearful of approaching potential partners thinking that if I succumb to them, that I'll end up worse off than my two prior cheating wives left me!

And then when the time avails itself where I'm in the formative stages of a relationship, I simply feel like "opening up," to them would be perceived as a n overt sign of weakness, leading to yet another painful bout of rejection! 

Either way, a lose-lose proposition!*


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