# 10 Things Your Cheating Spouse Doesn't Want You To Know



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

10 Things Your Cheating Spouse Doesn't Want You To Know

01/03/2017 11:16 EST | Updated 12/13/2017 13:42 EST 

Finding out that your husband or wife has been unfaithful isn't just a time of profound heartbreak and shock, it's also a time of intense confusion. There are so many unanswered questions and so many overwhelming emotions.

Most unfaithful partners are deeply committed to saving their marriage. They are honest, forthcoming with information and willing to do whatever it takes, for as long as it takes, to help heal the heart they have broken. They'll answer questions put to them. They'll acknowledge what they've done and how it's hurt their partner. They'll show true remorse. They'll have patience with their emotional spouse. They'll end the affair and cut all contact with the other person, and they'll be transparent with their phone, whereabouts and so on to help regain their partner's love and trust.

Unfortunately, not all unfaithful partners will react with honesty, humility or empathy when their betrayal is discovered. Not all will work collaboratively with their spouse to rebuild the marriage. These folks aren't focused on the marriage -- they're focused on themselves and how they can get through this with the least amount of drama and personal inconvenience.


* Remember: those who have nothing to hide hide nothing.*

What follows are ten things an insincere spouse would prefer you didn't know:

1. *They are fully aware their actions were a betrayal*. Their attempts to deny, deflect or downplay their actions, or to draw you into a debate (i.e. "I just sent him a naked picture, I didn't sleep with him!" or "Texting isn't cheating!"), are simply their way to muddy the waters so you cannot see the situation clearly.

2. *There's more to the story than they've told you*. Statements like, "It was only one time," or "We never met in person" or "We always used a condom," are often misleading. It is very common for extra information and revelations to trickle in after the affair or indiscretion is first discovered.

3. *They enjoyed having all the power*. Infidelity is in many ways a power imbalance in the marriage. The person who is being unfaithful has the power. They know the secret. They can choose whether to end it, continue it or reveal it. And like any kind of power, it can be intoxicating -- and a lot of fun.

4. *Their phone is proof of guilt.* When they accuse you of being "paranoid" or "controlling" when you ask to look at their phone, it is because they are hiding something and want you to stop asking. They know that nobody wants to be "that wife" or "that husband" who is meant to feel insecure or controlling, so they use that to their advantage. Remember: those who have nothing to hide hide nothing.

5. *They're doing their best to pin it on you. *Their attempts to transfer blame onto you (i.e. "I wouldn't have had to have sex with her if you'd be more available!" or "I wouldn't have had to turn to him if you'd just talk to me once in a while") are deflections meant to take the spotlight off their behaviour. Yes, pre-existing marriage problems may have factored into the infidelity; however, there were other options available to your partner. He or she did not have to secretively become emotionally or sexually intimate with this other person. Only they are to blame for that choice.

6. *They want you to stop whining about it.* Their impatience with your questions or pain, or their statements like, "Get over it already!" or "I already said I was sorry, what else do you want from me?!" usually mean that they are unwilling to invest the time, energy and emotion into regaining your trust and affection. Translation: they want you to shut up about it so they can watch the game in peace.

7. *They made a choice to do it.* There's no such thing as "It just happened." Similarly, a spouse who says, "It's impossible to be with just one person!" isn't addressing their betrayal, they are trying to justify it. The truth is, many couples have enjoyed long-term, devoted, loving marriages. It may not always be easy, but it comes down to personal choice and how you want to live your life.

*These behaviours often mark the difference between a spouse who wants to save their marriage and a spouse who just wants to save themselves.*

8. *They are not trustworthy.* No matter how many times they say, "You have to trust me," you do not and should not. A spouse who has engaged in any kind of secretive behaviour -- whether it's sexual or financial -- is not trustworthy. They can regain your trust; however, this is done through actions, not words.

9. *It may not be the last (or first) time.* While it isn't necessarily true that "once a cheater, always a cheater," it is often true that infidelity can become a pattern in marriage on the part of one or both spouses.

10. *They know exactly why they did it.* A spouse who answers the question, "Why did you do it?" by saying, "I don't know," isn't telling the truth. The truth may be "deep" (i.e. "I thought I was in love with him/her") or it may be "shallow" (i.e. "It was fun and I didn't think I'd get caught") but either way, they know exactly why they did it.

It's worth mentioning that even motivated spouses can and do show elements of these behaviours. For example, a sincere spouse may say "I don't know why I did it" to avoid further hurting their partner. A sincere spouse may try to downplay their actions to try and stabilize the situation.

Nonetheless, these ten points should be red flags to you if your partner has been unfaithful,* particularly if they are prolonged or delivered with a belligerent attitude.* These behaviours often mark the difference between a spouse who wants to save their marriage and a spouse who just wants to save themselves.

Of course, infidelity is complex. One blog cannot comprehensively cover all the ways a "difficult" spouse may react to being found out. If you're facing an episode of broken trust in your marriage and your spouse is not supporting you as he or she should, you should reach out for help.

I created my Overcoming Infidelity // For Betrayed Spouses audio crash course to deal with higher-conflict partners like this; however, there are many other resources out there, too. There are ways to motivate them to sincerely recommit to you. So don't be fooled by their behaviour. At the same time, don't give up on your marriage without giving it all you have.

Visit DebraMacleod.com for more info.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Interesting find.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

This hits the nail exactly on the head. We’ve all said this. The one thing missing is that waywards say that their infidelity doesn’t define them as a person. YES, IT DOES!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Just reading this list pretty much says all there is about why a wayward spouse will unconscionably resort to cheating ~ it's strictly for their very own pleasure and power!

And without the least hint of remorse for their legitimate partner, their family members, and their social community!

Sadly, it's all about them!*


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

A bunch of "Well, duh!"


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

How nice to *finally* see someone call a spade a spade:



> 10. *They know exactly why they did it.* A spouse who answers the question, "Why did you do it?" by saying, "I don't know," isn't telling the truth. The truth may be "deep" (i.e. "I thought I was in love with him/her") or it may be "shallow" (i.e. "It was fun and I didn't think I'd get caught") but either way, they know exactly why they did it.


Of course they do. But none of them are going to be stupid enough to ADMIT to their BS that they did it because they wanted to and because they enjoyed it.

But BS's can't accept that the overwhelming majority of the time, the opportunity for 'strange' - sexual variety and something new and exciting and different *WAS* the reason their spouse cheated on them. 

So they insist the cheater go to IC because they must be 'broken' and they _*need*_ to find that ever-elusive 'why' for what they did. And sure enough, said therapist comes up with some bull****, contrived reason that usually involves "FOO" issues (that one is so overused) or some kind of bogus 'sex' or 'porn' addiction, some kind of personality disorder, or a supposed 'trauma' the cheater suffered in 8th grade. I've often wondered if these therapists have an excuse wheel in their office that they spin and whatever it lands on, _that's_ the 'affliction' they'll assign the cheater for why they did what they did. 

I guess whatever gets you through the night. :awink:


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> How nice to *finally* see someone call a spade a spade:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This right here....they dig and dig for a reason any reason to excuse their desire for sexual adventure outside of marriage...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> This hits the nail exactly on the head. We’ve all said this. The one thing missing is that waywards say that their infidelity doesn’t define them as a person. YES, IT DOES!


If you behave in a bad way that makes you a bad person. Can a person change - sure they can. But while they are having an affair and for as long as they fail to take responsibility for it - they are bad people.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Just reading this list pretty much says all there is about why a wayward spouse will unconscionably resort to cheating ~ it's strictly for their very own pleasure and power!
> 
> And without the least hint of remorse for their legitimate partner, their family members, and their social community!
> 
> Sadly, it's all about them!*


The power imbalance jumped right out at me. Of course the Ws has all the power - and if they get to R they continue to have a majority of the power. They got their fun and now get to keep their marriage. If a Ws has a LTA or is a serial cheater and now declare there must be boundaries in their shambles of a marriage - who has the power? The power imbalance is never really discussed here. But it does exist and it is mostly in the WSs favor.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> How nice to *finally* see someone call a spade a spade:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*The cheater's mantra is strictly that they want to have the sheer power of being able to lasciviously spread their loins anywhere and anytime with anyone who they deem worthy!

And to hell with whatever sordid ramifications might befall their innocent victims, family members, or anyone remotely attached to their situation! *


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *The cheater's mantra is strictly that they want to have the sheer power of being able to lasciviously spread their loins anywhere and anytime with anyone who they deem worthy!
> 
> And to hell with whatever sordid ramifications might befall their innocent victims, family members, or anyone remotely attached to their situation! *


And when they cry I never thought it would do this much damage - well what the **** did you think cheating was going to do?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I've often wondered if these therapists have an excuse wheel in their office that they spin and whatever it lands on, _that's_ the 'affliction' they'll assign the cheater for why they did what they did.


There's probably an app for that. Spinning a physical wheel is so last century.



Truthseeker1 said:


> This right here....they dig and dig for a reason any reason to excuse their desire for sexual adventure outside of marriage...


"I met someone I was attracted to and I wanted to have sex with him/her, so I did." is just too simple. The non-cheater doesn't understand. The reason must be complex, because it just doesn't make any sense to the BS's way of thinking, so they want to dig their way to China looking for that non-existent complex answer that will make it all make sense. What the majority of BS's don't get is that their WS's simply do not think the way they do. The average WS and BS have different ways of viewing the world. They may use the same words as each other, but the meanings are different.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> "I met someone I was attracted to and I wanted to have sex with him/her, so I did." is just too simple. The non-cheater doesn't understand. The reason must be complex, because it just doesn't make any sense to the BS's way of thinking, so they want to dig their way to China looking for that non-existent complex answer that will make it all make sense. What the majority of BS's don't get is that their WS's simply do not think the way they do. The average WS and BS have different ways of viewing the world. They may use the same words as each other, but the meanings are different.


Agreed 100%. Which is why I doubt remorse from WSs happens as often and as deeply as portrayed by both the Bs and Ws in marriages effected by infidelity.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> There's probably an app for that. Spinning a physical wheel is so last century.
> 
> 
> 
> "I met someone I was attracted to and I wanted to have sex with him/her, so I did." is just too simple. The non-cheater doesn't understand. The reason must be complex, because it just doesn't make any sense to the BS's way of thinking, so they want to dig their way to China looking for that non-existent complex answer that will make it all make sense. What the majority of BS's don't get is that their WS's simply do not think the way they do. The average WS and BS have different ways of viewing the world. They may use the same words as each other, but the meanings are different.


Yep, it's in their nature. Loyalty never crosses their mind.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Yep, it's in their nature. Loyalty never crosses their mind.


Yeah loyalty is not high on their list and they cant see that. They also have betrayed their kids as well as their spouse. They cheated on everyone.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I note the original article said



> *Most *unfaithful partners are deeply committed to saving their marriage. They are honest, forthcoming with information and willing to do whatever it takes...
> 
> Unfortunately, not all unfaithful partners will react with honesty, humility or empathy


I get the feeling that some of you are not reading it that way.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Yeah loyalty is not high on their list and they cant see that. They also have betrayed their kids as well as their spouse. They cheated on everyone.


Even themselves. Say they really do love one of the people they are sleeping with. Then because they stay marred the can only offer themselves half of the time. It's not a healthy relationship in anyway. It prevents them from having a fully developed relationship because the settle for 2 haves or one.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

11 - The sex was super hot. Way hotter than with you. They even did that thing you’ve been begging for and not getting. 


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> 11 - The sex was super hot. Way hotter than with you. They even did that thing you’ve been begging for and not getting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've seen that more than once. I've seen Bs reconcile into a low sex or sexless marriage - that I do not get!


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> If you behave in a bad way that makes you a bad person. Can a person change - sure they can. But while they are having an affair and for as long as they fail to take responsibility for it - they are bad people.



One small disagreement, I think it defines them long after remorse.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> *And when they cry, I never thought it would do this much damage - well what the **** did you think cheating was going to do?*


*Then I'd have to say that you're most fortunate!

In two failed marriages, both coming apart due to covert wifely infidelity, I never once saw, nor heard, any of those cascading cheaters tears, much less hearing any apologetic verbiage! Only self-centered silence, denial, and emptiness!

Remorse was and is simply not anywhere to be found on their agenda! 

And to this very day, it still is not prevalent! At least, not to yours truly!*


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> One small disagreement, I think it defines them long after remorse.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think it scars the marriage relationship for life. IMO there is no "new marriage" but merely a refurbished one.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Then I'd have to say that you're most fortunate!
> 
> In two failed marriages, both coming apart due to covert wifely infidelity, I never once saw, nor heard, any of those cascading cheaters tears, much less hearing any apologetic verbiage! Only self-centered silence, denial, and emptiness!
> 
> ...


You had two remorseless WWs...I am skeptical of remorse form many WSs.,..but that is just me lol


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> And when they cry I never thought it would do this much damage - well what the **** did you think cheating was going to do?


People downplay the resulting effects because they feel it makes them better people somehow. 

Just something I realized over the years. " Yes, I screwed up your life but why can't you just get over it? Move on already."


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Malaise said:


> Just something I realized over the years. " Yes, I screwed up your life but why can't you just get over it? Move on already."


That's when the BS says, 'I am moving on, without you. You spineless POS! "


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> You had two remorseless WWs...*I am skeptical of remorse from many WSs*, but that is just me lol


*My friend, let's just say that remorse itself is the marked exception, much rather than the rule!*


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *My friend, let's just say that it is the marked exception much rather than the rule!*


I dont think Wss really get it until they get betrayed in some way..they simply dont get it...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I dont think Wss really get it until they get betrayed in some way..they simply dont get it...


Most don't have the emotional stuff to get it, it's why they do it in the first place.


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

arbitrator said:


> *Then I'd have to say that you're most fortunate!
> 
> In two failed marriages, both coming apart due to covert wifely infidelity, I never once saw, nor heard, any of those cascading cheaters tears, much less hearing any apologetic verbiage! Only self-centered silence, denial, and emptiness!
> 
> ...


What plenty of cheaters don't seem to see, which I get it's inconceivable to grasp for them is that one day you'll be old a gray trap with you're thoughts. They'll replay everything they torn apart over and over, guilt gets to every one at a moment of clarity! 

My ex called me one time bawling uncontrollable asking for forgiveness about 10 years after she felt the need to bang some low life.
Our oldest boy got into a car accident and was in the hospital, we didnt know how bad it was. She threw out finding God, how much she's been helping others, how better she is as a person, etc. 

I Was only concern about my boy, even though the devil was crying. I believe the worst is yet to come for her.

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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Suspicious1 said:


> What plenty of cheaters don't seem to see, which I get it's inconceivable to grasp for them is that one day you'll be old a gray trap with you're thoughts. They'll replay everything they torn apart over and over, guilt gets to every one at a moment of clarity!
> 
> My ex called me one time bawling uncontrollable asking for forgiveness about 10 years after she felt the need to bang some low life.
> Our oldest boy got into a car accident and was in the hospital, we didnt know how bad it was. She threw out finding God, how much she's been helping others, how better she is as a person, etc.
> ...


What did you say to your ex?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> What did you say to your ex?


*I know all too well what it is that I would have said!

And if they ever find the cajones to remorsefully apologize, my lines of retort have already been more than well rehearsed!*


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *I know all too well what it is that I would have said!
> 
> And if they ever find the cajones to remorsefully apologize, my lines of retort have already been more than well rehearsed!*


at that point the apology is more about their own peace than yours...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> at that point the apology is more about their own peace than yours...


*And my reply would definitely speak to that with some very well-chosen words!

But, in reality, their mere utterance probably wouldn't matter a tinkers damn to them by simply falling on inattentive ears and hardened hearts!*


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *And my reply would definitely speak to that with some very well-chosen words!
> 
> But, in reality, their mere utterance probably wouldn't matter a tinkers damn to them by simply falling on inattentive ears and hardened hearts!*


Do you see any of your XWWs?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed 100%. Which is why I doubt remorse from WSs happens as often and as deeply as portrayed by both the Bs and Ws in marriages effected by infidelity.


 And it almost never/very, very rarely seems to happen BEFORE they get caught. 
Is it a result of being caught, or just a ruse to salvage their fallback plan?

e.t.a. It's a good basic list, but like the other one posted it's a HuffPo ad for the author's services.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rubix Cubed said:


> And it almost never/very, very rarely seems to happen BEFORE they get caught.
> Is it a result of being caught, or just a ruse to salvage their fallback plan?
> 
> e.t.a. It's a good basic list, but like the other one posted it's a HuffPo ad for the author's services.


A spouse who gets caught as opposed to an uncoerced confession has that much more to prove - since there is no indication the A would have stopped or they were sorry until they got caught....


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Truthseeker1 said:


> What did you say to your ex?


Not too sure I said anything, I just listened as it was via phone my mind was mainly on my Son situation.

I do know she goes through episodes of violent remorse every so often when we were together. 

Besides the effing all the lying, deceit, stolen property I'm sure she wakes up in cold sweats every so often. 

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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Suspicious1 said:


> Not too sure I said anything, I just listened as it was via phone my mind was mainly on my Son situation.
> 
> _*I do know she goes through episodes of violent remorse every so often when we were together.
> *_
> ...


Is she remarried? Are you remarried? What does she expect to get form this? From you?


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Is she remarried? Are you remarried? What does she expect to get form this? From you?


Yes both remarried,

Not sure but I suspect her Catholic faith guilts her every so often. 
She prides herself for being a good human being, so I think forgiveness is important to her.

Unless me being quiet on the phone that one time was enough for her to go through life guilt free 

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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Suspicious1 said:


> Yes both remarried,
> 
> Not sure but I suspect her Catholic faith guilts her every so often.
> She prides herself for being a good human being, so I think forgiveness is important to her.
> ...


Is she waiting for you to say I forgive you? She needs to live wiht the burden of knowing she destroyed her family...I dont care how "good" a person she is supposed to be now - that can never be undone and what kind of example did she set for your kids? Did she marry her ap?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I dont think Wss really get it until they get betrayed in some way..they simply dont get it...


I think many people aren't concerned with loyalty. They don't see it as a significant part of a relationship. In the case of my wife, her belief was always that whatever I didn't know about wouldn't hurt me. She compartmentalized.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> I think many people aren't concerned with loyalty. They don't see it as a significant part of a relationship. In the case of my wife, her belief was always that* whatever I didn't know about wouldn't hurt me.* She compartmentalized.


That drives me nuts - like lying about ones past to get a spouse and hoping the truth never comes out...I dont know how people like that live with themselves - they have no conscience...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> That drives me nuts - like lying about ones past to get a spouse and hoping the truth never comes out...I dont know how people like that live with themselves - they have no conscience...


In the case of my xw, she truly believes that what another person doesn't know about won't harm them. As long as she was not doing or saying things in my presence which would harm me, she figured everything outside of the compartment I lived in was inconsequential to me.

It is a less extreme version of the traveling salesman who has two complete families in different cities who have no idea the other family exists.

My xw would describe herself as a caring and honest person. It is accurate except for within a close personal relationship. Her brain is not wired to understand loyalty.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Do you see any of your XWWs?


*XW#1 only! And that's only because she's the mother of my grown sons! She has noted Bipolar tendencies, so I can't really stand to be around her for any great period of time!

I cannot stand or stomach my RSXW, so the answer there is a resounding "No!" If she were to show up at any gathering I was at, I would leave post haste!

I just do not want to be anywhere near her obnoxiousness and blatant dishonesty! *


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Thor said:


> In the case of my xw, she truly believes that what another person doesn't know about won't harm them. As long as she was not doing or saying things in my presence which would harm me, she figured everything outside of the compartment I lived in was inconsequential to me.
> 
> It is a less extreme version of the traveling salesman who has two complete families in different cities who have no idea the other family exists.
> 
> My xw would describe herself as a caring and honest person. It is accurate except for within a close personal relationship. Her brain is not wired to understand loyalty.


I met a girl at a show one night when I lived in NY,she was seriously hot and we spent the night in my apt.The following morning when we got up I asked her did she want to go somewhere for breakfast,she said no as her fiancé or one of his friends might see us.I wasn’t too happy to know she had a boyfriend and I asked her why she wasn’t faithful to him.I have never forgotten what she said.
She said she had been faithful,lots of times.


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Is she waiting for you to say I forgive you? She needs to live wiht the burden of knowing she destroyed her family...I dont care how "good" a person she is supposed to be now - that can never be undone and what kind of example did she set for your kids? Did she marry her ap?


The last time I spoke to her was 7 years ago, as she's incredibly difficult to speak to so if she's truely waiting on me to say you're forgive then she has to show some true remorse which I doubt she has it in her. 
She might be someone totally different person today. 
So I agree 100% about living with knowing she effed up royally, it's one of the reasons I probably spoke to her less than half a dozen times in the last 15 years. So we're not friends, and we'll never be friends ever again.

Not sure what example the kids took from their mother as they're great kids, I do know they learn never to take any crap from anyone if they try to make a fool out of you. 

I gave her an ultimatum after watching her acting differently for the first week or two. Cut off the guy she claim they were friends, she did not. Within a day I was gone, she took it as I gave her permission to do what ever she wanted. 

No that guy turned out to be a scammer, and an abuser, ran throught our cash. He told her he was a computer programmer, he wasn't. She would call me crying, I would tell her this is what you wanted no? And hang the phone.

She married some spineless dude, who she can doormat him to her heart contend. I wonder from time to time what he got himself into knowing she's less than garbage as I pretty much told him.

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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Andy1001 said:


> I wasn’t too happy to know she had a boyfriend and I asked her why she wasn’t faithful to him.I have never forgotten what she said.
> She said she had been faithful,lots of times.


That really took my breath away. Amazing thought process she had going on!


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Thor said:


> That really took my breath away. Amazing thought process she had going on!


I lump statements like that in with those like this...

_"Don't I get any credit for all the years I *was* faithful?"
_
The kind of logic that makes your head asplode..


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> I met a girl at a show one night when I lived in NY,she was seriously hot and we spent the night in my apt.The following morning when we got up I asked her did she want to go somewhere for breakfast,she said no as her fiancé or one of his friends might see us.I wasn’t too happy to know she had a boyfriend and I asked her why she wasn’t faithful to him.I have never forgotten what she said.
> *She said she had been faithful, lots of times.*


*That is beyond sad!*


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## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

So when my prostitute using (3 years out of 19) recently discovered (8 months ago) "x" partner spends an evening with me, and at the end of the evening the discussion leads to his infidelity, and when he laments "can't we just spend ONE night together without dragging through all this?" and then when a follow up phone call ends up with his saying Good Night and hanging up in my ear because he's tired and done with the emotions and conversation - you think that may make him a bad bet? .... This is all tongue in cheek. I welcome your reply, but I already KNOW it makes him a bad bet. Now he is cringing and lamenting that he will try harder in the future, because I have slammed the door in his face. What a self centered idiot I seem to have here. A real gem. Hard to believe it took me so many years to discover that.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

DoneIn said:


> So when my prostitute using (3 years out of 19) recently discovered (8 months ago) "x" partner spends an evening with me, and at the end of the evening the discussion leads to his infidelity, and when he laments "can't we just spend ONE night together without dragging through all this?" and then when a follow up phone call ends up with his saying Good Night and hanging up in my ear because he's tired and done with the emotions and conversation


Have you considered telling him you'll happily shut up about it while spending an evening in his company, but if you have to pretend he'll have to pay you the same hourly rate he was paying the hookers to pretend? >


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Suspicious1 said:


> What plenty of cheaters don't seem to see, which I get it's inconceivable to grasp for them is that one day you'll be old a gray trap with you're thoughts. They'll replay everything they torn apart over and over, guilt gets to every one at a moment of clarity!
> 
> My ex called me one time bawling uncontrollable asking for forgiveness about 10 years after she felt the need to bang some low life.
> Our oldest boy got into a car accident and was in the hospital, we didnt know how bad it was. She threw out finding God, how much she's been helping others, how better she is as a person, etc.
> ...


She’d likely convinced herself that your son’s accident was God punishing her for the infidelity.

If that sounds crazy it’s because it is.


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> She’d likely convinced herself that your son’s accident was God punishing her for the infidelity.
> 
> If that sounds crazy it’s because it is.


You know that's the first time I've seen it that way, obviously in retrospect. 

At the time I could not capitalized in her misery as i was worry about my son's health.
Now thinking about it more clearly, her wording was more to as I had the power to over my own son's fate. She was going on about how good of a kid his etc as if I didn't already know.

Strange

Great catch!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Suspicious1 said:


> What plenty of cheaters don't seem to see, which I get it's inconceivable to grasp for them is that one day you'll be old a gray trap with you're thoughts. They'll replay everything they torn apart over and over, guilt gets to every one at a moment of clarity!
> 
> My ex called me one time bawling uncontrollable asking for forgiveness about 10 years after she felt the need to bang some low life.
> Our oldest boy got into a car accident and was in the hospital, we didnt know how bad it was. She threw out finding God, how much she's been helping others, how better she is as a person, etc.
> ...


*Even Satan can cry the wettest and most sympathetic of tears, in order to win lost souls for his kingdom... as well as for his very own personal amusement and lascivious, heartless usage!*


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## Robbie1234 (Feb 8, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> I met a girl at a show one night when I lived in NY,she was seriously hot and we spent the night in my apt.The following morning when we got up I asked her did she want to go somewhere for breakfast,she said no as her fiancé or one of his friends might see us.I wasn’t too happy to know she had a boyfriend and I asked her why she wasn’t faithful to him.I have never forgotten what she said.
> She said she had been faithful,lots of times.


Is this the same girl who said when she has sex with other men she thinks about her boyfriend so it's not really cheating.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Robbie1234 said:


> Is this the same girl who said when she has sex with other men she thinks about her boyfriend so it's not really cheating.


Yes the very same.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Yes the very same.


*That line of thought seems kind of shallow! She doesn't really give a tinkers damn as to who she hurts!*


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Suspicious1 said:


> Not too sure I said anything, I just listened as it was via phone my mind was mainly on my Son situation.
> 
> I do know she goes through episodes of violent remorse every so often when we were together.
> 
> ...


How long ago was this?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

3putt said:


> I lump statements like that in with those like this...
> 
> _"Don't I get any credit for all the years I *was* faithful?"
> _
> The kind of logic that makes your head asplode..



Realizing you're married to someone like this - and always have been - is an absolute mind****.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> In the case of my xw, she truly believes that what another person doesn't know about won't harm them. As long as she was not doing or saying things in my presence which would harm me, she figured everything outside of the compartment I lived in was inconsequential to me.
> 
> It is a less extreme version of the traveling salesman who has two complete families in different cities who have no idea the other family exists.
> 
> My xw would describe herself as a caring and honest person. It is accurate except for within a close personal relationship. Her brain is not wired to understand loyalty.


Wow...people like her are dangerous partners....they come across as "normal" but are poison in relationships...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Suspicious1 said:


> *She married some spineless dude, who she can doormat him to her heart contend. I wonder from time to time what he got himself into knowing she's less than garbage as I pretty much told him.*
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I've seen this with an XWW of a friend. Her 2nd husband seems to be under her thumb. Dont htink she is cheating but she is certainly in control. There is a sucker born every minute. Rule #1 should be never marry a person whose last marriage ended because they cheated - too tainted IMO.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> I met a girl at a show one night when I lived in NY,she was seriously hot and we spent the night in my apt.The following morning when we got up I asked her did she want to go somewhere for breakfast,she said no as her fiancé or one of his friends might see us.I wasn’t too happy to know she had a boyfriend and I asked her why she wasn’t faithful to him.I have never forgotten what she said.
> *She said she had been faithful,lots of times*.












The way cheaters rationalize, compartmentalize and blame shift is truly astounding. They are the perpetrator but when caught they want to be the victim too. They want the spotlight on them at all times. It is always about them Even a "hall pass" is about them and controlling the situation post dday. Sadly in many cases the cheater has more power in the reltionship.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Suspicious1 said:


> The last time I spoke to her was 7 years ago, as she's incredibly difficult to speak to so if she's truely waiting on me to say you're forgive then she has to show some true remorse which I doubt she has it in her.
> She might be someone totally different person today.
> So I agree 100% about living with knowing she effed up royally, it's one of the reasons I probably spoke to her less than half a dozen times in the last 15 years. So we're not friends, and we'll never be friends ever again.
> 
> ...


Who has primary custody of your kids?


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

sokillme said:


> How long ago was this?


She had the A late 1998, but my Son's accident was 2010 around his birthday so 7 years ago. 

My current wife was pregnant with our first daughter.

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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Who has primary custody of your kids?


She was, I was pretty much homeless. She end up moving to R.I which was good for my mental health.

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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> The way cheaters rationalize, compartmentalize and blame shift is truly astounding. They are the perpetrator but when caught they want to be the victim too. They want the spotlight on them at all times. It is always about them Even a "hall pass" is about them and controlling the situation post dday. Sadly in many cases the cheater has more power in the reltionship.


As @Robbie1234 mentioned above this girl first of all tried to justify her cheating by telling me that while we were having sex she was thinking about her boyfriend so it wasn’t really cheating.When I looked so incredulous she came out with the being faithful lots of times comment.
Without trying to thread jack,this girl was a model and as I allready said she was seriously hot,but her IQ was about the same as her waist measurement.I lived with and beside people who were involved in the fashion industry and we were always being invited to fashion shows and I always attended enthusiastically.A lot of these girls modeled to pay their way through college and fair play to them.Some of them however had grown up constantly being told how beautiful they were and they intended using their god given attractions to get a rich boyfriend/husband and didn’t see the need to get an education or a job.They also didn’t see the need to stay loyal to anyone.Their sense of entitlement was unreal and everything was about them.
God help the guys who marry these shell people.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> The way cheaters rationalize, compartmentalize and blame shift is truly astounding.


Cheaters _have_ to be good at rationalizing and compartmentalizing in order to reconcile the conflicting thoughts and feelings that are going on in their heads.



> Sadly in many cases the cheater has more power in the relationship.


It kind of makes sense to me that the cheater would have more power in the relationship. How else would they not be afraid of what the consequences might be?


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I've seen this with an XWW of a friend. Her 2nd husband seems to be under her thumb. Dont htink she is cheating but she is certainly in control. There is a sucker born every minute. Rule #1 should be never marry a person whose last marriage ended because they cheated - too tainted IMO.


Something that made me laugh out loud when it happened, and still makes me chuckle when I think about it.
I was with my kids after a day out with them, I'm bring them back to their grandparents apartment when I hear muffled yelling down the dark lit street I noticed two figures at a distance. I recall that voice, and I feel my daughtet grabbing me telling lets go the other way, I cross the streets and see my ex screem at the top of her huge lungs some obscenities to her brand new bf. We were too close to our final destination to go around them. I told my daughter who was terrified not too worry your mother does not have any control over me and I smilled. My son seem to see it as it was business as usual. She stop yelling and tried to act cusual when she saw us, but it was too late. 
I had a big ol grin, but mostly happy I was out of her life.

Great feeling ever. 

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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Yep, it's in their nature. Loyalty never crosses their mind.


What a load of simple-minded self congratulatory horse****. 

Y'all having fun with the back slapping and high fives? Good. As long as you can dehumanize someone, I guess you win.

But you guys aren't even trying very hard. To wit -

We eat puppies whenever possible
I shot JFK. Granted, I was only a couple of months old, but still...
I give AIDS to babies
I'm cheating on you right now, and I like it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> As @Robbie1234 mentioned above this girl first of all tried to justify her cheating by telling me that while we were having sex she was thinking about her boyfriend so it wasn’t really cheating.When I looked so incredulous she came out with the being faithful lots of times comment.
> Without trying to thread jack,this girl was a model and as I allready said she was seriously hot,but her IQ was about the same as her waist measurement.I lived with and beside people who were involved in the fashion industry and we were always being invited to fashion shows and I always attended enthusiastically.A lot of these girls modeled to pay their way through college and fair play to them.Some of them however had grown up constantly being told how beautiful they were and they intended using their god given attractions to get a rich boyfriend/husband and didn’t see the need to get an education or a job.They also didn’t see the need to stay loyal to anyone.Their sense of entitlement was unreal and everything was about them.
> *God help the guys who marry these shell people.*


*Please keep in mind that I married at least one of them!

Just a nagging hunch, but you'd have one hell of a time in trying to convince "yours truly" that it's not already gotten to the point that the populous number of the "unfaithful" hasn't already well-exceeded that of the "faithful!"

Which greatly leads me to the question, "Would I have the unfettered right to ask any new love interest as to whether or not they've ever cheated on a spouse or significant other before?"
*


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> As @Robbie1234 mentioned above this girl first of all tried to justify her cheating by telling me that while we were having sex she was thinking about her boyfriend so it wasn’t really cheating.When I looked so incredulous she came out with the being faithful lots of times comment.
> Without trying to thread jack,this girl was a model and as I allready said she was seriously hot,but her IQ was about the same as her waist measurement.I lived with and beside people who were involved in the fashion industry and we were always being invited to fashion shows and I always attended enthusiastically.A lot of these girls modeled to pay their way through college and fair play to them.Some of them however had grown up constantly being told how beautiful they were and they intended using their god given attractions to get a rich boyfriend/husband and didn’t see the need to get an education or a job.They also didn’t see the need to stay loyal to anyone.Their sense of entitlement was unreal and everything was about them.
> God help the guys who marry these shell people.


It's like marrying a rock star or pro athlete for a women.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Cletus said:


> What a load of simple-minded self congratulatory horse****.
> 
> Y'all having fun with the back slapping and high fives? Good. As long as you can dehumanize someone, I guess you win.
> 
> ...


Ha, so what are they misunderstood? Loyalty does come into their mind?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Ha, so what are they misunderstood? Loyalty does come into their mind?


I can't speak for others, but I know that my xw truly does not understand loyalty.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> I can't speak for others, but I know that my xw truly does not understand loyalty.


I wonder how shed respond if she was betrayed.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Mine actually said at one time "I'm not a bad wife!"
I said "You lied, cheated and stole from me. So what makes a bad wife?"
I just got a stare.....


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Thor said:


> I can't speak for others, but I know that my xw truly does not understand loyalty.


Interestingly, my ex-husband does seem to have some understanding of loyalty, even though that understanding is a little warped. He considers himself loyal. He likes for other people to see him as being loyal. He insists on loyalty from others. 

However, his perception of reality is so ego-protective as to not really allow him to process other people having differing viewpoints from his own. So, if there's something wrong, it's always a problem with the other person. In other words, if you think he's betrayed you, it's because you're confused, are misunderstanding, are crazy, are overreacting, are delusional, are being difficult, or are simply wrong. The possibility that he's actually being disloyal simply never enters the equation.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> Mine actually said at one time "I'm not a bad wife!"
> I said "You lied, cheated and stole from me. So what makes a bad wife?"
> I just got a stare.....


What you should have said was “Compared to who”


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Suspicious1 said:


> She was, I was pretty much homeless. She end up moving to R.I which was good for my mental health.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Did she take the kids with her?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

toblerone said:


> It kind of makes sense to me that the cheater would have more power in the relationship. How else would they not be afraid of what the consequences might be?


They claim not to have thought about the consequence but I find that hard to believe also. Some have said something like "I thought my spouse would be angry/hurt but not like this" which shows me they thought their spouse was a doormat form the beginning. Which is why I think most WSs deserve to feel that at some point - then they will finally get it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> They claim not to have thought about the consequence but I find that hard to believe also. Some have said something like "I thought my spouse would be angry/hurt but not like this" which shows me they thought their spouse was a doormat form the beginning. Which is why I think most WSs deserve to feel that at some point - then they will finally get it.


*In reality, they'll never get it!

Once they cheat, they know the layout of the playing field all too well, and it certainly won't be all that difficult for them to repeat their crime with yet another covert partner!*


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *In reality, they'll never get it!
> 
> Once they cheat, they know the layout of the playing field all too well, and it certainly won't be all that difficult for them to repeat their crime with yet another covert partner!*


Many get R with never having to feel that betrayal..they get away with it..


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I’m suprised they left off How cheaters have a repeated pattern of cheating. Sure for everything is a first time however from what I have seen cheaters cheat and cheat on every relationship that continues to come. 

My x cheated on every single relationship she ever had. That’s her nature because that’s what she is.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> Mine actually said at one time "I'm not a bad wife!"
> I said "You lied, cheated and stole from me. So what makes a bad wife?"
> I just got a stare.....


Ah yes the self justifying. Let me guess next came that this was all your fault and you were a bad husband lol. Cheater script 101


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Did she take the kids with her?


Yes, along with her enabling parents!

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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Suspicious1 said:


> Yes, along with her enabling parents!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


how can she legally take the kids? are you happily remarried?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Many get R with never having to feel that betrayal..they get away with it..


*Perhaps out of the BS' sheer desperation of ultimately losing them!*


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Reading these responses has me recalling micro nuances in her behavior. I'm proud how I handled things considering the hell my kids and I went through.

But my Ex must had been stinking drunk with power. 
She had gain some weight after the kids, 5, 6 years later she started to work out got a breast reduction, found her confidence back. Hitting her original weight class I guess that's when the looks and attention twisted her mind.

I never saw her so, um liberated, empowered? She was having lots of fun, and extremely cocky attitude! I'm pretty sure she sampled a few taboo sex stuff.
As she was scandalous as to hinting at what she was up to at any giving time! 

So power is something that the wws certainly has but you can use it to see them as what they truely are. It was one of the reason that help me realized never to go back no matter how bad it got for me.

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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Suspicious1 said:


> So power is something that the wws certainly has but you can use it to see them as what they truely are. It was one of the reason that help me realized never to go back no matter how bad it got for me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I think they get off on being wanted by two men - a ego boost. Imagine if a WS had an affair for 2, 5 or 10 years and got to keep their marriage - imagine how powerful they must feel?


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## welldusted (Oct 5, 2015)

The one about the power trip really resonated with me. I see that so much in my wife right now. It is almost like a teenager power trip, like she is showing her dad she can do what she wants. She resents that she feels dependent on me because I make the bigger income and she knows life would be harder without me, but I don't think she really appreciates me or wants to be with me, or at least she doesn't realize how good she has it.


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

The other thing cheaters try tp rationalise is the removal pf the wedding band, magically they're no longer married and all vows are out the window!

Perplexing.

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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *Which greatly leads me to the question, "Would I have the unfettered right to ask any new love interest as to whether or not they've ever cheated on a spouse or significant other before?"
> *


A useless question, unfortunately. You could ask it, but you'd be hardpressed to tell a truthful answer from a lie. If they cheated, they're gonna lie.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

welldusted said:


> The one about the power trip really resonated with me. I see that so much in my wife right now. It is almost like a teenager power trip, like she is showing her dad she can do what she wants. She resents that she feels dependent on me because I make the bigger income and she knows life would be harder without me, but I don't think she really appreciates me or wants to be with me, or at least she doesn't realize how good she has it.


Always give defiant people what they want. It rarely works out the way they expect.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> Mine actually said at one time "I'm not a bad wife!"
> I said "You lied, cheated and stole from me. So what makes a bad wife?"
> I just got a stare.....


I do think many cheaters do believe on the whole they are good spouses. They do that cheater math - we were married for x amount of time and I only cheated for y amount of time. so in their minds X-Y=the time they were good spouses. I think many BSs buy into this equation as well. It sh!tty math IMO.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> A useless question, unfortunately. You could ask it, but you'd be hardpressed to tell a truthful answer from a lie. If they cheated, they're gonna lie.


You are right. IMO a person who cheated on past partners is a non starter for a relationship. They are a bad bet.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

> Which greatly leads me to the question, "Would I have the unfettered right to ask any new love interest as to whether or not they've ever cheated on a spouse or significant other before?"





Hopeful Cynic said:


> A useless question, unfortunately. You could ask it, but you'd be hardpressed to tell a truthful answer from a lie. If they cheated, they're gonna lie.


Oh, there are ways of asking. You don't just ask that bald question. Over time, you ask about previous relationships and how they were and how they ended. Without stating strong views on the subject. And listening out for the "tone" as well as the words. And/or you talk about someone else who "strayed", maybe a work colleague, maybe using a neutral word like that - what do they think about it?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> Oh, there are ways of asking. You don't just ask that bald question. Over time, you ask about previous relationships and how they were and how they ended. Without stating strong views on the subject. And listening out for the "tone" as well as the words. And/or you talk about someone else who "strayed", maybe a work colleague, maybe using a neutral word like that - what do they think about it?


I think it takes TIME to get to know someone. Whirlwind romances that lead to marriage seem risky. Also analyze their friends and family - try to find out if the have a best friend who has cheated. That can also indicate their attitude towards infidelity. You need to focus on the persons whole world and not just some words they mutter to get you to like them more. Its not fool proof but it does stack the odds a bit better in your favor. I dont take phrases like" i hate infidelity" at face value coming from a person look for clues about how they actually live. Who is going to say hey cheating is fun!!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Laurentium said:


> Oh, there are ways of asking. You don't just ask that bald question. Over time, you ask about previous relationships and how they were and how they ended. Without stating strong views on the subject. And listening out for the "tone" as well as the words. And/or you talk about someone else who "strayed", maybe a work colleague, maybe using a neutral word like that - what do they think about it?


Ugh. Sounds exhausting.

Seriously, who wants to put in that kind of time?

Hey... let’s just tattoo waywards!

:lol: :rofl:


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## Walloped (Feb 14, 2018)

Truthseeker1 said:


> IMO a person who cheated on past partners is a non starter for a relationship. They are a bad bet.


Make that singular (one partner not multiple) and while I hear you, I disagree.

Take a divorced remorseful WS (yes, they exist). They’ve done the hard work, they know what they did, they understand the destruction they caused and they’ve learned about and developed themselves as well as now having the tools to check their tendencies, combat issues, etc. I’d much rather have that person than someone who is clueless about themselves. Relationships are a crapshoot. You can marry someone with no history and that’s not a guarantee they won’t betray you. And you can marry someone who did betray someone and they won’t even come close to doing it again.

Like in many things, due diligence is key.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

Walloped said:


> Make that singular (one partner not multiple) and while I hear you, I disagree.
> 
> Take a divorced remorseful WS (yes, they exist). They’ve done the hard work, they know what they did, they understand the destruction they caused and they’ve learned about and developed themselves as well as now having the tools to check their tendencies, combat issues, etc. I’d much rather have that person than someone who is clueless about themselves. Relationships are a crapshoot. You can marry someone with no history and that’s not a guarantee they won’t betray you. And you can marry someone who did betray someone and they won’t even come close to doing it again.
> 
> Like in many things, due diligence is key.


I don't think I can agree with this. It's one of those things BH's tell themselves to try to justify R ... much like "we can build an even better M" and "they always affair down". There are much better options available ... mainly women that have always been faithful. To get comfortable with what you are suggesting would require getting inside the other person's head ... otherwise your just "trusting" that someone has changed, and when it comes to prior waywards "trust" isn't where you would start in that relationship. I understand many BH's R with their WW ... I'm in that subset myself, but I've never deceived myself into believing we were going to get back to "better than before" and after 10 years "trust" in her fidelity still isn't there although I'll put our overall relationship in the top 10%, because I've accepted that it was foolish of me to put the kind of unconditional trust in her that I once did. I've simply accepted that our relationship is what it is, rather than what I originally thought it was or what I wish it could have been.

However, if I did find myself back in the dating pool and I would discover that my new lady friend had been unfaithful in the past ... "Check, please", I'm outta here. With a lot more of my life in the rear view mirror than is in the windshield, I simply refuse to gamble on a WW changing that I would have no other ties with at that point.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Walloped said:


> Make that singular (one partner not multiple) and while I hear you, I disagree.
> 
> Take a divorced remorseful WS (yes, they exist). They’ve done the hard work, they know what they did, they understand the destruction they caused and they’ve learned about and developed themselves as well as now having the tools to check their tendencies, combat issues, etc. I’d much rather have that person than someone who is clueless about themselves. Relationships are a crapshoot. You can marry someone with no history and that’s not a guarantee they won’t betray you. And you can marry someone who did betray someone and they won’t even come close to doing it again.
> 
> Like in many things, due diligence is key.


Depends on how you see it. I seem WS as more like alcoholics so to me they are like the fokes they call recovering, they are still alcoholics. There is still a risk as they are only really one drink away from blowing up their life again. Maybe it won't be cheating next time but spending money. Now I am not talking about the ONS type of person, but the person who could live a double life and lie to all their love ones for long periods of time. To be able to do that you need to be some severe emotional problems. Changing that takes a monumental and usually a life time of work. First of all most people don't have that kind of work in them, though there are some rare ones. Lots of people say they have it in them though but don't do the work. It also doesn't' mean the patterns are still there for life and they have to make a conscious effort not to fall back into them. 

I mean it's not a either or choice. Yeah you are right that someone who is self aware is a good choice to marry. Yes much better then someone who is clueless. What you leave out is it's even better to be married to someone who is self aware because they were raised right and have very good character to begin with then someone who has sever emotional problems, blew up theirs and their families life and is now self aware because of that. Again I say that because they still have emotional problems and patterns that take a life time of diligence to stay on top of. Where as the healthy person can be self aware and just not have any of that. They are just easier. 

Also people who self destruct like this usually have other issues not just with sex, it's also problems with telling the truth and handling stress, dissociating, magic thinking and all myriad of stuff. Because what they really have are character issues, the cheating is just a manifestation of those issue. So just because they learned not to cheat doesn't mean there isn't other manifestations of such issues. 

That's not to say some people don't truly reform. I'm just saying I see it as a risk.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Remember: those who have nothing to hide hide nothing.

Interesting, I'd like to schedule a tour of your house. Or do you have something to hide?

Mike Royko was a legendary newspaper columnist and on some occasion a politician was declining to reveal something. Readers would call the editorial department and express opinions, a popular one being "Why won't he reveal it, unless he has something to hide?" Royko would thank them for their opinion, then ask for their name and address(this is normal for newspapers). He would then continue asking questions like how much money they had and after a few of these they would angrily shout at him or hang up or both. Apparently they all had something to hide.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Walloped said:


> Make that singular (one partner not multiple) and while I hear you, I disagree.
> 
> Take a divorced remorseful WS (yes, they exist). They’ve done the hard work, they know what they did, they understand the destruction they caused and they’ve learned about and developed themselves as well as now having the tools to check their tendencies, combat issues, etc. I’d much rather have that person than someone who is clueless about themselves. Relationships are a crapshoot. You can marry someone with no history and that’s not a guarantee they won’t betray you. And you can marry someone who did betray someone and they won’t even come close to doing it again.
> 
> Like in many things, due diligence is key.


I have to disagree - prior infidelity is a red flag..I agree there are no guarantees but cheating in a previous relationship is definitely a BIG disqualifier for most...most cheaters never get it - do exceptions to the rule exsit sure - but I dont want to be the one I choose is that exception


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Walloped said:


> Make that singular (one partner not multiple) and while I hear you, I disagree.
> 
> Take a divorced remorseful WS (yes, they exist). They’ve done the hard work, they know what they did, they understand the destruction they caused and they’ve learned about and developed themselves as well as now having the tools to check their tendencies, combat issues, etc. I’d much rather have that person than someone who is clueless about themselves. Relationships are a crapshoot. You can marry someone with no history and that’s not a guarantee they won’t betray you. And you can marry someone who did betray someone and they won’t even come close to doing it again.
> 
> Like in many things, due diligence is key.


How awesome for that person. (Seriously, insert golfclap here.)

Still a bad bet for anyone else.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MyRevelation said:


> However, if I did find myself back in the dating pool and I would discover that my new lady friend had been unfaithful in the past ... "Check, please", I'm outta here. With a lot more of my life in the rear view mirror than is in the windshield, I simply refuse to gamble on a WW changing that I would have no other ties with at that point.


Agreed. It is about risk management. Some things are high risk, and I have no need to take on those risks. While this may result in good individuals being rejected, I would rather take my chances with better prospects.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

This rings so true. My ex gf cheated on me and her friends and family were shocked as I made sure I told everyone I knew.

She has told me during the year together. Luckily we had not moved in together yet

I saw a text and that opened up my eyes to what was going on. She wasn't even deleting texts so I got the whole thing without a lot of digging. 

She denied everything even when I was confronting her. She says the texts meant nothing etc. Except I called the guy and he admitted it and said he did not know she had a boyfriend. I actually believe the guy as he was shocked and denied nothing.

My ex gf makes #2 and #4 are spot on for her. Even after seeing the phone she accused me of violating privacy.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@arbitrator said:


> Which greatly leads me to the question, "Would I have the unfettered right to ask any new love interest as to whether or not they've ever cheated on a spouse or significant other before?"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm going to wade into this WS bash-fest and say one thing. Arb, I see no reason you shouldn't be able to ask this question, however as @Hopeful Cynic says, if someone is a liar, they will lie with their answer. Liars lie. What kind of drives me nuts though would exactly be someone like me--the few and far betweeen. I cheated on my Dear Hubby and had an EA, and I learned from it and we reconciled and had about 12 more years of a loving, faithful marriage. So in your WS bashing, what happens to a person such as myself who eventually did learn and grow? Without even so much as a "Well howdy" you've already just passed on by. 

Does it take time to tell if someone is lying in their answer or not? Yes, but love takes time and takes effort. Will you pass by some who grew up and learned how to be better people? Maybe not a ton of 'em, but yes. 

Carry on with your bash-fest.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Affaircare said:


> Yes, I'm going to wade into this WS bash-fest and say one thing. Arb, I see no reason you shouldn't be able to ask this question, however as @Hopeful Cynic says, if someone is a liar, they will lie with their answer. Liars lie. What kind of drives me nuts though would exactly be someone like me--the few and far betweeen. I cheated on my Dear Hubby and had an EA, and I learned from it and we reconciled and had about 12 more years of a loving, faithful marriage. So in your WS bashing, what happens to a person such as myself who eventually did learn and grow? Without even so much as a "Well howdy" you've already just passed on by.
> 
> Does it take time to tell if someone is lying in their answer or not? Yes, but love takes time and takes effort. Will you pass by some who grew up and learned how to be better people? Maybe not a ton of 'em, but yes.
> 
> Carry on with your bash-fest.


First off - hope you are well. You ar enot the type of wS that is being discussed here..Ive said this many, many times to you. Specifically - serial cheaters, those in LTAs, etc are the category most mean..


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> Yes, I'm going to wade into this WS bash-fest and say one thing. Arb, I see no reason you shouldn't be able to ask this question, however as @Hopeful Cynic says, if someone is a liar, they will lie with their answer. Liars lie. What kind of drives me nuts though would exactly be someone like me--the few and far betweeen. I cheated on my Dear Hubby and had an EA, and I learned from it and we reconciled and had about 12 more years of a loving, faithful marriage. So in your WS bashing, what happens to a person such as myself who eventually did learn and grow? Without even so much as a "Well howdy" you've already just passed on by.
> 
> Does it take time to tell if someone is lying in their answer or not? Yes, but love takes time and takes effort. Will you pass by some who grew up and learned how to be better people? Maybe not a ton of 'em, but yes.
> 
> Carry on with your bash-fest.


Now you know I love you. But you are the very rare exception, and you had already been working on this stuff even before you had the affair I believe right? So you are most definitely not the norm. 

I just look at the rate of recidivism in the US as an example that past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior.  I think this is just human nature. Since this is a message board I take the belief that you should post in general terms as you can't really know individual situations from a few posts. 

Didn't you even post an article that confirmed "once a cheater always a cheater".

But even I, ME the DarthKillMe says there are people I would be willing to take a chance on, but they would be under scrutiny and would they be willing to put up with that? I DO believe people can change. 

Hope you are doing well by the way. Your voice is really missed on here! I like a gentle voice who will tell me I am full of it every once and a while. Too many crabby men around here.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> Yes, I'm going to wade into this WS bash-fest and say one thing. Arb, I see no reason you shouldn't be able to ask this question, however as @Hopeful Cynic says, if someone is a liar, they will lie with their answer. Liars lie. What kind of drives me nuts though would exactly be someone like me--the few and far betweeen. I cheated on my Dear Hubby and had an EA, and I learned from it and we reconciled and had about 12 more years of a loving, faithful marriage. So in your WS bashing, what happens to a person such as myself who eventually did learn and grow? Without even so much as a "Well howdy" you've already just passed on by.
> 
> Does it take time to tell if someone is lying in their answer or not? Yes, but love takes time and takes effort. Will you pass by some who grew up and learned how to be better people? Maybe not a ton of 'em, but yes.
> 
> Carry on with your bash-fest.


*Not exactly bragging, AC, but I seem to have the uncanny ability to intently read people's eyes whenever I pose a question to them! Let's just say that they ain't real hard to read as I can read them like a book!

I just wondered if they would get ultra-pi$$ed off by having that question posed to them, and then clam up in classic form, thus laying waste to any potential romantic relationship!*


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

One of the main reasons I bought the book "Spy the Lie" was to learn to read people for deception. Asking point blank if someone ever cheated is not a good tactic all by itself, but after getting a feel for their history it could work. One technique is to "normalize" the behavior. Set it up that lots of people have cheated and you just want to know what they've learned from the experience if they've done it. This makes them think the consequences of confession are not bad. Most people actually don't want to lie. They'd rather deflect or answer a different question, or they give a partial answer. So the cheater may do those things, or they may just admit to the cheating because you've told them it is a normal thing people do.

Of course then if they admit to the cheating I would almost certainly end the relationship. If I didn't move on, I would be extra vigilant and be more cautious about getting in deeper.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> Of course then if they admit to the cheating I would almost certainly end the relationship. If I didn't move on, I would be extra vigilant and be more cautious about getting in deeper.


Agreed. i would never feel comfortable or trusting with someone who cheated meaning lta, serial cheating even a short term PA

nothing is guaranteed but id steer clear of someone who was unfaithful


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

arbitrator said:


> *Not exactly bragging, AC, but I seem to have the uncanny ability to intently read people's eyes whenever I pose a question to them! Let's just say that they ain't real hard to read as I can read them like a book!
> 
> I just wondered if they would get ultra-pi$$ed off by having that question posed to them, and then clam up in classic form, thus laying waste to any potential romantic relationship!*


 @arbitrator, 

Speaking from experience, I had that question asked of me, and I did not get pissed off. The person asking has a right to know and a right to make up their own mind. And yeppers I answered truthfully because it's the biggest regret of my life. 

Here's my guess: some folks who didn't learn from it would lie; some folks who didn't learn from it would be "How DARE you suggest such a thing" and act high-n-mighty; and some folks who DID learn from it would answer honestly. 

Then you can figure out if you wanna proceed, right?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Affaircare said:


> @arbitrator,
> 
> Speaking from experience, I had that question asked of me, and I did not get pissed off. The person asking has a right to know and a right to make up their own mind. And yeppers I answered truthfully because it's the biggest regret of my life.
> 
> ...


But an EA is not the same thing as a multi year pa or serial cheating etc...

i even try to specify what i mean now so as not to insult people like yourself and other folks who i do not put in that category..


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

sokillme said:


> Now you know I love you. But you are the very rare exception, and you had already been working on this stuff even before you had the affair I believe right? So you are most definitely not the norm.


Respect ya back. 



> <snip> Didn't you even post an article that confirmed "once a cheater always a cheater".


LOL I didn't post that to "confirm" once a cheater always a cheater  I posted that because it was relevant discussion for TAM and thought it would be interesting to discuss the science involved. 



> But even I, ME the DarthKillMe says there are people I would be willing to take a chance on, but they would be under scrutiny and would they be willing to put up with that? I DO believe people can change.


Ah therein lies the rub, I think. As someone who actually reformed (that is to say, I changed me on the inside) I would absolutely be willing to be under scrutiny as it's warranted. I would welcome it, in fact, because in order to earn trust a person has to actually be trustWORTHY and the best way to demonstrate worthiness of trust to actually have your words and actions match. Thus scrutinize away and you'll soon see I'm where I say I'm going to be, as long as I say, with whom I say, doing what I said I'd be doing...and your own scrutiny would prove that. 

Perhaps that's a key to this whole thing. 



> Hope you are doing well by the way. Your voice is really missed on here! I like a gentle voice who will tell me I am full of it every once and a while. Too many crabby men around here.


Thanks--I think I'm doing medium, though having never been a widow before I don't really have a way to tell. I'll try to get on and tell you you're full of it more often


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I believe some people can change and probably learn. I may listen to someone who cheated but I don't think I could trust that person as Ive been cheated on before so not worth the risk.



Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed. i would never feel comfortable or trusting with someone who cheated meaning lta, serial cheating even a short term PA
> 
> nothing is guaranteed but id steer clear of someone who was unfaithful


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> First off - hope you are well. You are not the type of WS that is being discussed here..Ive said this many, many times to you. Specifically - serial cheaters, those in LTAs, etc are the category most mean..


 @Truthseeker, 

First off, thanks for hoping I'm well. I think I'm doing okay, although like I told sokillme, how would I know? LOL I am still carrying on and I have things in life I enjoy so I think that's progress, don't you? 

Second, I do get it that you are specifically talking about serial cheaters, LTAs, etc. And you have always been most kind and talked with me very maturely about our varying opinions. Seriously we have no beef, other than this one thing: here on TAM we tend to hear from people in their hardest, darkest, most painful moments. When things are better...they go away. Thus those of us who "hang here" may start to believe that all people are like this, and all marriages are like this, and all women or men are like this. We never, ever hear from the people who are doing good or have a happy marriage. They have no need to come here! 

Likewise, what reason would there be for a WS to come here, bare their soul, and explain how much they learned from behaving so badly? None. I am with you--I think the majority don't take the time to learn or deliberately choose not to learn. I think some more just rugsweep it. But I don't want everyone to just generically say "All WS are ___" because they aren't anymore than "All BS are ____" 

Here on TAM no WS would ever, EVER get away with a BS bash-fest like this for more than a post or two and the whole place would be aflame.  I guess what I'm saying is "Hey let's be kind here."


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> But an EA is not the same thing as a multi year pa or serial cheating etc...
> 
> i even try to specify what i mean now so as not to insult people like yourself and other folks who i do not put in that category..


I appreciate your thoughtfulness there--I personally consider infidelity infidelity and don't distinguish, because in the end you betrayed someone who trusted you and whom you swore to love and protect. Still unfaithful, right? BUT I also understand your view that there are like levels to the depth of the betrayal and more time unfaithful is also a deeper wound and more egregious...that kind of thing. Is that right?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Affaircare said:


> I appreciate your thoughtfulness there--I personally consider infidelity infidelity and don't distinguish, because in the end you betrayed someone who trusted you and whom you swore to love and protect. Still unfaithful, right? BUT I also understand your view that there are like levels to the depth of the betrayal and more time unfaithful is also a deeper wound and more egregious...that kind of thing. Is that right?


Correct my view is generally (I know there are exceptions)

Online EA<EA<ONS<Brief Affair<LTA

So if someones spouse had an online EA vs an affair that was physical and spanned years I think the second one is WAY worse. I dont view all infidelity as equal since the longer and deeper the affair the more red lines that get crossed. 

I've never looked at you or losinghim in the light of the types of cheating most frequently discussed - they are simply not the same thing in my view.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed. i would never feel comfortable or trusting with someone who cheated meaning lta, serial cheating even a short term PA
> 
> nothing is guaranteed but id steer clear of someone who was unfaithful


After my fiasco I swore I'd never date or get into a relationship with someone who cheated yet I did end up dating a woman who did. I never asked her if she had cheated, she voluntarily told me before our first date actually. She was I felt candid and honest about it at the time, she didn't have to tell me anything considering we hadn't even been on one date yet. We dated for a few months and then the relationship fizzled out and we parted ways.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

honcho said:


> After my fiasco I swore I'd never date or get into a relationship with someone who cheated yet I did end up dating a woman who did. I never asked her if she had cheated, she voluntarily told me before our first date actually. She was I felt candid and honest about it at the time, she didn't have to tell me anything considering we hadn't even been on one date yet. We dated for a few months and then the relationship fizzled out and we parted ways.


Would you have trusted her to make a commitment to her? like marriage?

I will concede there are exceptions to every rule..


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

honcho said:


> After my fiasco I swore I'd never date or get into a relationship with someone who cheated yet I did end up dating a woman who did. I never asked her if she had cheated, she voluntarily told me before our first date actually. She was I felt candid and honest about it at the time, she didn't have to tell me anything considering we hadn't even been on one date yet. We dated for a few months and then the relationship fizzled out and we parted ways.


Telling you straight out would be a better sign then if you have to ask.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Affaircare said:


> Here's my guess: some folks who didn't learn from it would lie; some folks who didn't learn from it would be "How DARE you suggest such a thing" and act high-n-mighty; and some folks who DID learn from it would answer honestly.
> 
> Then you can figure out if you wanna proceed, right?


So there are three responses to the question "have you cheated?"

1) No (and the person is telling the truth)
2) No (and the person is lying)
3) Yes (and the person learned from the experience)

I think there would also be several reactions, based on if the person asking has ever been cheated on before, and how good they are at discerning lies


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## Robbie1234 (Feb 8, 2017)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> So there are three responses to the question "have you cheated?"
> 
> 1) No (and the person is telling the truth)
> 2) No (and the person is lying)
> ...


The problem is some people just do not accept that they are cheats. My ex wife had a hundred excuses as to why she slept with her boss but none of them showed her in a bad light. It was impossible for her to admit she was a cheater and to this day she insists she didn't do anything "really" bad, she was as much a victim as me and the kids.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

There are many truths in this list. The thrill of something on the side and having a secret shared with someone else, the sense of empowerment, and so on. I think it is also true that persons having an affair lie about it, minimize, attack as a defense mechanism, and so on. This is one side of the equation. In my case, I think my wife did not contemplate the damage done and to this day is not willing or able to recognize it. I went through hell. I think she enjoyed and giddily twisted the knife as much as she could taking satisfaction in every turn. I did not feel I could leave as we had 4 young daughters whose lives would be turned upside down. Stepping back from the bashing, there is also the truism that no one is entirely good and no one is entirely bad. I would not wish on anyone the hell I went through or the consequential and permanent damage. As time as passed, I have less interest in the history. Our marriage was ruined and our girls have suffered, but I believe she felt she had her reasons and still does. That does not bring us closer and certainly was not enough to fix what was broken. I think nothing will be. But, we can get along sometimes and have to maximize the getting along for the sake of our daughters and each of our sanity. No one is entirely good and no one is entirely bad. Having an affair is a major and life altering f*ck up. I don't think my wife will ever appreciate the extent of the damage. She does not want to or cannot look at it, in my view. But that is my view. There is nothing to be gained from rehashing the sh*t or sifting through the debris. There were happy times that I can look back on now and then and I can appreciate that she has positive qualities and loves her children.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Harken Banks said:


> There are many truths in this list. The thrill of something on the side and having a secret shared with someone else, the sense of empowerment, and so on. I think it is also true that persons having an affair lie about it, minimize, attack as a defense mechanism, and so on. This is one side of the equation. In my case, I think my wife did not contemplate the damage done and to this day is not willing or able to recognize it. I went through hell. I think she enjoyed and giddily twisted the knife as much as she could taking satisfaction in every turn. I did not feel I could leave as we had 4 young daughters whose lives would be turned upside down. Stepping back from the bashing, there is also the truism that no one is entirely good and no one is entirely bad. I would not wish on anything the hell I went through or the consequential and permanent damage. As time as passed, I have less interest in the history. Our marriage was ruined and our girls have suffered, but I believe she felt she had her reasons and still does. That does not bring us closer and certainly was not enough to fix what was broken. I think nothing will be. But, we can get along sometimes and have to maximize the getting along for the sake of our daughters and each of our sanity. No one is entirely good and no one is entirely bad. Having an affair is a major and life altering f*ck up.


Why do you stay? I will never get it. Any thoughts that she did and didn't worry about the damage because she knew you would stay? I personally believe a lot of WS know exactly what they are doing, they just know their spouses are going to put up with it.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Why do you stay? I will never get it. Any thoughts that she did and didn't worry about the damage because she knew you would stay? I personally believe a lot of WS know exactly what they are doing, they just know their spouses are going to put up with it.


Because (i) I was in disbelief and thoroughly confused and (ii) I thought it would turn my daughters' lives into a messy hell. She probably discounted the possibility that I would leave and we got to that point, but she put forward just enough for me not to leave with other things considered. It would have been complex. In retrospect, it is clear I should have said that was it on the first day I became aware. But I did not. I committed to keeping the family together.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Harken Banks said:


> Because (i) I was in disbelief and thoroughly confused and (ii) I thought it would turn my daughters' lives into a messy hell. She probably discounted the possibility that I would leave and we got to that point, but she put forward just enough for me not to leave with other things considered. It would have been complex. In retrospect, it is clear I should have said that was it on the first day I became aware. But I did not. I committed to keeping the family together.


And now are your kids grown up?


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

sokillme said:


> And now are your kids grown up?


No. 16, 14, 11, and 8. As much as I take interest in the topic, I don't want to make this thread about me. I know I have a tendency to do that. I have insight mostly into my own experience and observation and wanted to acknowledge that the voices on this site are mostly those who have been hurt by infidelity as the BS. Over time, I have come to appreciate more that what leads to infidelity, the behavior of the WS, and the fallout is often complicated. I am not a saint and my wife is not the devil. The infidelity and subsequent behavior played out by the book. The WS generally does not appreciate the carnage that will result from the affair and wants to avoid and minimize that. That explains some of the behaviors in the list. It is not necessarily because they are evil or cruel, although that can be the case. They are also human. That doesn't fix the damage, damage the extent of which they may never appreciate. But no one is entirely good and no one is entirely bad. I buy my wife Valentine's Day gifts and if schedule allows we will have lunch or dinner. Everyone deserves a Valentine's Day and this is especially so with women, in my view. I could live without it. It means nothing to me. But not doing something for your wife or girlfriend on Valentine's is like forgetting to feed your dog. No big deal to you. The dog won't starve. But it means a lot to the dog to have dinner. It shows someone cares and cares about your day and how you are doing, even if you just pooped on the Persian.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I haven’t read through the thread yet, so not sure if this was brought up by someone earlier....

But I bet it has by some of the veteran’s.....

IMO....the number 1 thing a WS doesn’t want their BS to know.....

There are millions of better people out there waiting, once the BS gets rid of their traitorous a**.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Back to the title


That your smaller than him
That you suck in bed
That you make more than him
That she wants to cake eat
THAT shes been doing it much longer than you realize

That she never loved you she was just affraid nobody else would marry her
That shes not sorry
That if you forgive her she will cheat again
That she will say or do anything to keep the status quo
That shes not sure if the kids are yours


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> Because (i) I was in disbelief and thoroughly confused and (ii) I thought it would turn my daughters' lives into a messy hell. She probably discounted the possibility that I would leave and we got to that point, but she put forward just enough for me not to leave with other things considered. It would have been complex. In retrospect, it is clear I should have said that was it on the first day I became aware. But I did not. I committed to keeping the family together.


*And If that's indeed the case, as soon as the kids are graduated, I wouldn't bet against the prospects that you're probably "out of there!"*


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *And If that's indeed the case, as soon as the kids are graduated, I wouldn't bet against the prospects that you're probably "out of there!"*


We'll see. I could leave next week and I think about that a lot or we could grow old and boring together. The kids are the focus now and I am never certain what to do best by them other than love and provide and to the best of my ability nurture. Anyway, the whole thing about infidelity can be complex and a broad brush does not always paint the picture. Some who have read my story will seem me as weakening. I'm just growing old.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Would you have trusted her to make a commitment to her? like marriage?
> 
> I will concede there are exceptions to every rule..


I don't know about marriage, we didn't date that long but I do feel she was trying to earn my trust and not just expect I trust her. When she told me you could tell she was nervous and scared and most likely expected me to not react well and reject her. I do feel she took a "leap of faith" in telling me so I did agree to go out to dinner. 

I do believe she carried a great deal of regret over her affair, I can't speak at all about remorse as I wasn't her husband or kids. One thing I do know is when she divorced her husband she could have cleaned him out including 15 years worth of alimony in my state and all she asked was to split the retirement accounts and walked away from everything else. She had even agreed to time filing the divorce so child support wouldnt be an issue as her youngest turned 18 before the divorce was final. Her affair was a couple years before she decided to divorce so it wasn't like she had Mr perfect waiting in the wings to take care of her.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

honcho said:


> I don't know about marriage, we didn't date that long but I do feel she was trying to earn my trust and not just expect I trust her. When she told me you could tell she was nervous and scared and most likely expected me to not react well and reject her. I do feel she took a "leap of faith" in telling me so I did agree to go out to dinner.
> 
> I do believe she carried a great deal of regret over her affair, I can't speak at all about remorse as I wasn't her husband or kids. One thing I do know is when she divorced her husband she could have cleaned him out including 15 years worth of alimony in my state and all she asked was to split the retirement accounts and walked away from everything else. She had even agreed to time filing the divorce so child support wouldnt be an issue as her youngest turned 18 before the divorce was final. Her affair was a couple years before she decided to divorce so it wasn't like she had Mr perfect waiting in the wings to take care of her.


Why did she cheat? Did her BH not want to R?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Why did she cheat? Did her BH not want to R?


Someone paid attention to her, she started to eat it up and wanted more. On that end the usual story. She is very much an introvert and had/has self esteem issues. She hated her marriage but never blamed her marriage for her affair. She filed, he thought they had reconciled and didn't want a divorce. He never thought she would go thru with it. 

He wanted to fight the divorce but every lawyer told him he won't stop it and he was getting the deal of a lifetime, take the deal and don't screw it up.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> We'll see. I could leave next week and I think about that a lot or we could grow old and boring together. The kids are the focus now and I am never certain what to do best by them other than love and provide and to the best of my ability nurture. Anyway, the whole thing about infidelity can be complex and a broad brush does not always paint the picture. Some who have read my story will seem me as weakening. * I'm just growing old.*


*Hell, Harken! We're all doing a little bit of that!*


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

honcho said:


> Someone paid attention to her, she started to eat it up and wanted more. On that end the usual story. She is very much an introvert and had/has self esteem issues. She hated her marriage but never blamed her marriage for her affair. She filed, he thought they had reconciled and didn't want a divorce. He never thought she would go thru with it.
> 
> He wanted to fight the divorce but every lawyer told him he won't stop it and he was getting the deal of a lifetime, take the deal and don't screw it up.


Why did she hate her marriage?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@Harken Banks - remember you have one life to live so find your happiness man. Have your adventure and dont waste your years by waking up everyday with someone you dont want to be with. Good luck!!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Hell, Harken! We're all doing a little bit of that!*


Very true..which makes time even more precious so dont waste it on unremorseful cheaters..


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Why did she hate her marriage?


Her ex is an alcoholic and is kind of a dictator. His was the only way. She felt like a servant than a partner. I met 2 of her kids who were in there 20's who pretty much told me the same things about him. As I said before she was an introvert and she had a tendency to internalize everything so I can see how resentment grew in her over the years. 

She needed to learn how to express herself much more and not keep everything inside, she was doing the same when I was dating her. She had built some big walls over the years.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

honcho said:


> Her ex is an alcoholic and is kind of a dictator. His was the only way. She felt like a servant than a partner. I met 2 of her kids who were in there 20's who pretty much told me the same things about him. As I said before she was an introvert and she had a tendency to internalize everything so I can see how resentment grew in her over the years.
> 
> She needed to learn how to express herself much more and not keep everything inside, she was doing the same when I was dating her. * She had built some big walls over the years.*


Im not surprised - addiction is tough on families - both spouses and children..so it seems her A was an exit A them?


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Interesting reading through this thread and thinking about my own situation. My H was a serial cheater who blamed me and trickle truthed for decades. Then when I had an affair, his reaction was self righteous hypocrisy. That's the short version of the story.
Yet, he's not a horrible person. He just treated me horribly for a period of years and then reacted like most cheaters do. His lizard brain kicked in and what become most important was for him not to lose the life he has with his children and wife. 
While I was in the thick of my own affair, I wasn't honest with him either, for many of the same reasons. It's what people do when they risk loss. 
The switch went on for me when I realized I was in danger of turning into him. So last month I told him we had to separate for real. We've had an informal in house separation for the past three years after I found out the extent of his cheating. 
He's heartsick over it now. Gives me long hugs, pleads with me not to leave. It doesn't change anything. I don't hate him, in fact I care about him deeply. But what he did and then what I did, changed me, and left me feeling like damaged goods. His cheating hurled our marriage into a slow death agony. I think that's the case more often than not.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

This applies to some situations of cheating but not to others. While I am married and have never cheated, let me give you a list which would apply to a friend's situation I know (I am just an understanding observer, not involved with her). 

1. I tried to make the marriage work and undertook this only as a last resort. 

3. I did enjoy redressing power imbalance where my spouse was the dominant person. I liked putting my needs first for a change. 

5. In my friend's situation, she tried repeatedly to talk, compromise, address problems, but he would not change. Ultimately tried infidelity, and went back to the 80/20 relationship she had where she would accomodate his moods, and compromise to meet his goals for the sake of the children. 

9. She is a trustworthy person. Most people are surprised about how much she tolerated. Her husband is not a particularly likable guy. 

There is two different types of cheating, 

A. Chronic cheater, has nothing to do with spouse, (some political figures seem to fit here). 

B. Understandable decent person, tolerated a lot unresponsive or emotionally abusive spouse, little or no sex, etc. 

People have to take a hard look at whether they a or b. If b, then working on the marriage and acknowledging fault and the need for change is part of making the marriage work, rather than telling him or her the next 500 times about how much a betrayal this was. 
Obviously some reasonable monitoring makes sense, phone, change access to the cheating person, but this board seems to overemphasize this and not discuss the need for real change in some situations.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Im not surprised - addiction is tough on families - both spouses and children..so it seems her A was an exit A them?


I'm sure part of it was the exit angle but she was just trying to escape her own reality. Her mom was dying from cancer, her one son had just been sent to the middle east on his first tour of duty and a bad marriage. Instead of facing the issues she ran so to speak.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Of course, infidelity is complex. One blog cannot comprehensively cover all the ways a "difficult" spouse may react to being found out. If you're facing an episode of broken trust in your marriage and your spouse is not supporting you as he or she should, you should reach out for help.
> 
> I created my Overcoming Infidelity // For Betrayed Spouses audio crash course to deal with higher-conflict partners like this; however, there are many other resources out there, too. There are ways to motivate them to sincerely recommit to you. So don't be fooled by their behaviour. At the same time, don't give up on your marriage without giving it all you have.
> 
> Visit DebraMacleod dot com for more info.


Where do you find these crazy authors and pseudo-professionals. I know you discovered this click bait on HuPo but why can't any of your "finds" be from normal people instead of some Canadian Lawyer and her husband setting who obviously set up a slick professional appearing website with canned books and generic headlines to prey upon desperate betrayed and hurting spouses looking for real solutions for their marriages.

Debra has a BA, LL.B. which they use as credentials many times on the website to make it appear she is reallya professional of some kind and the letters look odd so it must be some kind of therapist degree when it's just a Bachelors degree {English} and a Canadian common law degree {not even a Juris Doctorate}. Another stupid lawyer that can write a lot but know very little. Her experience with divorce is having worked as a mediator in alternate dispute resolution matters and her experience with infidelity is probably due to her husband {Don Macleod} and her having Co-authored a bunch of sex books including 50 Ways to Play: A beginners Guide to BDSM  {LINK TO BOOK}
 as well as a book about oral sex. 

It is interesting that the link I found is amazon dot ca dot com whereas on amazon dot com proper only her husband is listed as the author of that book. She's distancing herself from their fetish books that nobody bought hoping to cash in with a more professional image. 

I did not register or buy any of the crap offered on their website to really review it because, after looking at so many of these type of canned websites the scams are easy to spot. I just find it odd and hypocritical for the original poster to be knocking websites like SI dot com {with whom I have fundamental disagreements with as well} but then turn around and promote these predator author websites like this Debra woman. I get that any content the OP can find to bash waywards with is good content to him but these fake "professional" reconciliation websites are the worst of the worst as far as trapping betrayed spouses in "membership" marital limbo {notice you have to "sign in" on her content page}.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

honcho said:


> I'm sure part of it was the exit angle but she was just trying to escape her own reality. Her mom was dying from cancer, her one son had just been sent to the middle east on his first tour of duty and a bad marriage. Instead of facing the issues she ran so to speak.


Sounds like a real emotional mess for her all around.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blahfridge said:


> Interesting reading through this thread and thinking about my own situation. My H was a serial cheater who blamed me and trickle truthed for decades. *Then when I had an affair, his reaction was self righteous hypocrisy.* .


How so? If he was hurt that is understandable but if he tries a morally superior attitude - no way. I could not stand that. I wonder if your RA helped him understand infidelity better now that he was on the receiving end of it?


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Very true..which makes time even more precious so dont waste it on unremorseful cheaters..


Interstate love song.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> Interstate love song.


No one can tell you what to do - but just keep in mind you have one life to live and live it being true to your values and beliefs....


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> blahfridge said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting reading through this thread and thinking about my own situation. My H was a serial cheater who blamed me and trickle truthed for decades. *Then when I had an affair, his reaction was self righteous hypocrisy.* .
> ...


I never considered it a revenge affair, but maybe he did. It was more a reactive affair. But in answer to your question, yes I think it helped him understand what it felt like to have your spouse cheat on you. But he was still convinced that his cheating was justified and less egregious because it was physical while mine was emotional. It was crazy how he behaved - spying on me with keyloggers, angry and then tearful over my horrible behavior knowing all the while that he had not one, but multiple affairs. It didn't begin to hit him until he finally admitted it all - when he said it out loud and saw my reaction. I think as long as it was still inside his head, he was able to justify it and excuse it. That's why I now see the necessity of exposure. It forces the cheater back to reality. He's lucky, I never told the children or more than a few of my close friends and family. He says he knows that, but he doesn't really believe it. Lucky to him would be if I never knew or continued to rug sweep and stayed in the marriage.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blahfridge said:


> I never considered it a revenge affair, but maybe he did. It was more a reactive affair. But in answer to your question, yes I think it helped him understand what it felt like to have your spouse cheat on you. But he was still convinced that his cheating was justified and less egregious because it was physical while mine was emotional. It was crazy how he behaved - spying on me with keyloggers, angry and then tearful over my horrible behavior knowing all the while that he had not one, but multiple affairs. It didn't begin to hit him until he finally admitted it all - when he said it out loud and saw my reaction. I think as long as it was still inside his head, he was able to justify it and excuse it. That's why I now see the necessity of exposure. It forces the cheater back to reality. He's lucky, I never told the children or more than a few of my close friends and family. He says he knows that, but he doesn't really believe it. Lucky to him would be if I never knew or continued to rug sweep and stayed in the marriage.


Waywards can say they sympathize all they want but they dont truly "get it" until they truly "feel it" - some are incapable of ever feeling it even if they get cheated on but many do finally get it. I've seen some folks say RAs are worse tan the first affair because the BS knows what is like ot feel it and does it to their WS anyway. SMH. I hope you do find happiness and your WH becomes a better man for himself and your children.


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## Kerf (Apr 22, 2017)

Bobby5000 said:


> 1. I tried to make the marriage work and undertook this only as a last resort.



A last resort that will make a bad situation worse.Great thinking there.




> 3. I did enjoy redressing power imbalance where my spouse was the dominant person. I liked putting my needs first for a change.


But that's one of the most popular excuses.And it's usually bs.The WS often engages in rewriting of marriage history when their affair is exposed.



> 5. In my friend's situation, she tried repeatedly to talk, compromise, address problems, but he would not change. Ultimately tried infidelity, and went back to the 80/20 relationship she had where she would accomodate his moods, and compromise to meet his goals for the sake of the children.


LOL "Ultimately tried infidelity" I mean, what the hell?How would infidelity fix things?It may work with a doormat that will blame himself for her affair and will try to save the marriage at all cost.But with someone who is controlling and/or emotionally abusive, it could backfire horribly.



> 9. She is a trustworthy person. Most people are surprised about how much she tolerated. Her husband is not a particularly likable guy.



No she's not.And if her husband is that bad, she should divorce him.Not do things that could make him fly off the handle.




> There is two different types of cheating,
> 
> A. Chronic cheater, has nothing to do with spouse, (some political figures seem to fit here).
> 
> B. Understandable decent person, tolerated a lot unresponsive or emotionally abusive spouse, little or no sex, etc.



What?No they are not only those types of cheaters.

Look at Mrs Walloped for example.She cheated only once because of her own emotional issues and insecurities stemming from childhood.While she tried to blame her husband at first, she now takes the full blame and is working hard to reconcile.



> People have to take a hard look at whether they a or b. If b, then working on the marriage and acknowledging fault and the need for change is part of making the marriage work, rather than telling him or her the next 500 times about how much a betrayal this was.
> Obviously some reasonable monitoring makes sense, phone, change access to the cheating person, but this board seems to overemphasize this and not discuss the need for real change in some situations.


Sorry, but you either have it in you to cheat or you don't.No matter how bad the marriage is/was.I've been in toxic relationships.I've also seen them.I've seen many BS getting abused by their WS, infidelities flaunted in their face etc etc.They still don't "try infidelity" as a fix.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Kerf said:


> Bobby5000 said:
> 
> 
> > There is two different types of cheating,
> ...


Yeah, no, nobody 'decent' cheats on their spouse. They get divorced first, if the marriage is that intolerable.

I'd say the two kinds of cheaters would be

A) someone who does it on purpose, sometimes over and over, doesn't care who it hurts as long as they feel good, keeps it secret as long as possible

B) someone who does it once, maybe thoughtlessly, then realizes it's a terrible mistake and admits it and faces the consequences


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## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

My guess is this woman has been badly hurt herself. She is striking back by striking out.


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