# A true lack of desire



## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Recently I had a nice long, very informative talk with my wife of 25 years. As some background, my wife and I have sex maybe 1 or 2 times each month. My wife likely has asperger's and tends to not like physical touch, hugging, kissing, etc. This has grown worse through the years.

As part of our conversation, I have finally determined that my wife may simply be asexual, or close to it. She told me that although she loves me, she has never been sexually attracted to me. She shared that she has never felt that for anyone, including ex boyfriends, movie actors, etc. She finds the thought of lesbianism disgusting and is definately not a lesbian. She does not masturbate, and although she orgasms during our sex, it doesn't increase her desire or any "want" for more sex. She hates oral sex (either way) and refuses to give or receive.

We have two daughters together and I do truly love my wife. I hate the thought of leaving her and she is against me having someone on the side.

The question you will ask is "why" did I marry her? Well, it was a bit of bait and switch. It was only after a couple years of marriage that she finally said no more oral and our sex life dived. I always chalked it up to some aspect of our life causing her anxiety. But now I know that she has always known she wasn't into me in that way.

This is truly a heartbreaking thing to hear. I think every person wants to be loved AND desired. To find out she's just not capable of it hurts my heart. She is against counseling. 

As aside note, I love oral sex, especially giving. I have not been able to for probably 15 years now. I fantasize about it. But she just won't. Even if we were to shower first. Nope.

So, any recommendations other than divorce? Can I do anything?

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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What do you love about her?

she’s unaffectionate.

Lousy in bed.

Told you she was NEVER sexually attracted to you.

damn she must be a helluva good cook.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

TX-SC said:


> Recently I had a nice long, very informative talk with my wife of 25 years. As some background, my wife and I have sex maybe 1 or 2 times each month. My wife likely has asperger's and tends to not like physical touch, hugging, kissing, etc. This has grown worse through the years.
> 
> As part of our conversation, I have finally determined that my wife may simply be asexual, or close to it. She told me that although she loves me, she has never been sexually attracted to me. She shared that she has never felt that for anyone, including ex boyfriends, movie actors, etc. She finds the thought of lesbianism disgusting and is definately not a lesbian. She does not masturbate, and although she orgasms during our sex, it doesn't increase her desire or any "want" for more sex. She hates oral sex (either way) and refuses to give or receive.
> 
> ...


Probably get some counseling, and see what the professionals say. That said, if you have sex a couple of times a month, there is some fulfillment and you perhaps should not have asked the questions you did. Imagine if a woman asked, if you had the opportunity to have sex with someone 25 years younger with no repercussions, would you do it, and then got angry with a truthful answer. 

There's a fair number of women not comfortable with receiving, and I'm not sure you're in the minority here. I think you have a decent sex life, a good relationship otherwise and family, so not sure I'd throw that away.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> What do you love about her?
> 
> she’s unaffectionate.
> 
> ...


I don't know how many more of these I can read...doesn't ANYONE actually care about their partner's sexual needs...?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I personally wouldn’t want a woman who gave me sex because I needed it. I would want her to want me as badly as I wanted her. 
But I agree, apparently there are a lot of couple out there with one sided desire.
I never have experienced it, thankfully, and don’t want to.
It does hurt to read this stuff. What’s even more strange is how people stay with it for YEARS. Tragic.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> What do you love about her?
> 
> she’s unaffectionate.
> 
> ...


The reality is that aside from affection she is a good wife and a great person. I have been with her for 27 years now, married 25. She goes out of her way to at least "try" but as someone else above said, it's difficult when you know your partner is just there for you and would rather be watching tv. She and I have built a life and a business together and we love each other. We have two wonderful daughters together. The lack of desire though is a problem.

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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I suggest you take the bad with the good. A friend who truly loves you is priceless. You say she makes an honest effort. 

I’ve had passionate kisses that curled my toes with a couple of women in my life that in reality never loved me. I’ve had sex with gorgeous women that the sex really wasn’t all that. everything is relative.

I’ve read here that some hormone therapy can really change a libedo. Have you bought about asking her to consider that?
She sounds like she wishes she could be the affectionate wife you hoped for.

Are you being truthful to yourself? Are you fearful of a life alone? A life without her?
Starting over?

Is a friend and roommate and parent enough for you? I’d be scared as hell if I were you. I’ve been divorced a while and although finding a woman isn’t difficult, finding one I feel the way you feel about yours is very difficult. Especially without children of their own, massive debt, mental issues, etc.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> I don't know how many more of these I can read...doesn't ANYONE actually care about their partner's sexual needs...?


I was thinking the same thing as I read this. Marriage is a contract with a person you love and one important aspect of that is a sexual relationship. It's really not a negotiable thing after the fact and can even be cruel if you turn off the tap.
(I have what I want at your expense)

The aspect that saddens me the most is the partner struggling to make things work when they're being denied. My wife and I seriously contemplated divorce after only two years of marriage - now, 35 years and three kids later we are happy, have great, regular sex and are true partners. This is because we worked at it, while some aspects of a relationship may be damaged, the ability and desire to work on issues should remain at the forefront. Along with the denial of sex in these posts, there seems to be a denial of the work involved in maintaining a relationship.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> I suggest you take the bad with the good. A friend who truly loves you is priceless. You say she makes an honest effort.


The counter could be you can have all that without being married to them.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

So I guess what constitutes a marriage to some people is where one partner feels obligated to gratify the others sexual needs. Even if for them it's about as fun as a trip to the dentist. Don't agree.

I've seen a lot of these threads too but there's always a common theme. The guy doesn't seem to be making much effort to turn his wife on. It's all about him. 

It's great if you like giving oral but a lot of women aren't looking for a guy who primarily gets off on that. They want hard penis inside them blowing a big load. Try to figure out what she likes and mix it in with what you like. I don't believe she's asexual for a minute. There's has to be something that gets her going. Maybe she doesn't even know what it is yet. You should try to do some exploring together.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Dude, you’ve been on this site for many years. You’ve seen the countless posts (hundreds) from husbands saying their wives are withholding/withdrawing from sex. You dare ask the question if there is any other way but divorce? I believe you know the answer to that question...


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TX-SC said:


> So, any recommendations other than divorce? Can I do anything?


Cheat on her and be discrete.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

gaius said:


> So I guess what constitutes a marriage to some people is where one partner feels obligated to gratify the others sexual needs. Even if for them it's about as fun as a trip to the dentist. Don't agree.
> 
> I've seen a lot of these threads too but there's always a common theme. The guy doesn't seem to be making much effort to turn his wife on. It's all about him.
> 
> It's great if you like giving oral but a lot of women aren't looking for a guy who primarily gets off on that. They want hard penis inside them blowing a big load. Try to figure out what she likes and mix it in with what you like. I don't believe she's asexual for a minute. There's has to be something that gets her going. Maybe she doesn't even know what it is yet. You should try to do some exploring together.


I think perhaps you have read much into my thread that is not there. I have spent 27 years doing everything I can to make her want sex more often. We have lots of toys, lots of lotions, etc. But as I said, she has indicated that she has never been sexually attracted to anyone. No previous boyfriend, no celebrity, nobody. She says she can acknowledge that someone is attractive and feels that about me, but there is simply no sexual desire. It has nothing to do with "learning what she needs" as I plainly said she orgasms at least once every time we have sex. And yes, she gets a hard penis blowing a big load each time too! 

I have spent years talking to her and asking what I can do. I have spent much time experimenting and I take plenty of time on foreplay. Again, it's NOT about her sexual gratification. It's about her having zero desire for me or anyone else.

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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

RebuildingMe said:


> Dude, you’ve been on this site for many years. You’ve seen the countless posts (hundreds) from husbands saying their wives are withholding/withdrawing from sex. You dare ask the question if there is any other way but divorce? I believe you know the answer to that question...


Well, maybe, but I do love this woman and I do want to salvage the marriage if possible. The best of all possible world's would be for her to say "go find it somewhere else, but no falling in love." But, I would seriously have to consider the ramifications of that too.

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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Cheat on her and be discrete.


I really would prefer not to. 

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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TX-SC said:


> she has indicated that she has never been sexually attracted to anyone.


My wife said she didn't want to have sex with anyone, it wasn't just me. She has mental issues too. I think it's a bit of a cop-out, an easy way out. I understand it and after many years together and children it's difficult to just drop everything. I don't know how old you are or your daughters' age, but, personally, I've had enough. I can't fix this.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

gaius said:


> I've seen a lot of these threads too but there's always a common theme. The guy doesn't seem to be making much effort to turn his wife on. It's all about him.


If THIS is what you are getting from these threads (from men AND women), then you aren't reading the ones I'm reading.
That's almost NEVER what I read as the common theme.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Perhaps, a change in attitude on your part would help. Your wife has no sexual desire for anyone - not just you. She goes out of her way to at least try. That says she truly loves you and wants you to be happy. How about you accept your wife as she is and stop wishing she were something she isn't. If you want sex once a week instead of biweekly, go for it. If you want it twice a week, go for it. 

Don't take her lack of desire personally. She finds you attractive so half of the battle is already fought.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> *I personally wouldn’t want a woman who gave me sex because I needed it. I would want her to want me as badly as I wanted her. *
> But I agree, apparently there are a lot of couple out there with one sided desire.
> I never have experienced it, thankfully, and don’t want to.
> It does hurt to read this stuff. What’s even more strange is how people stay with it for YEARS. Tragic.


That's not what I'm talking about though...I mean, feeling turned on by the fact that I am the only one he wants to express his sexual desires with. It's not just about filling a need - it's about being excited that he has that need FOR ME.
And caring about my partner enough so that when he needs something, I want to give it to him from a place of desire to fill that need FOR HIM.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> And caring about my partner enough so that when he needs something, I want to give it to him from a place of desire to fill that need FOR HIM.


Isn't this what his wife is doing?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> Isn't this what his wife is doing?


Maybe...from the way he described her, I'm not sure if she feels the way I'm explaining, but I could be wrong. If she is, he's in a better place than alot of the other thread starters!

I was actually explaining more specifically to Evinrude's point, less to the OP's wife's specific feelings.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

We had a member who stated that she didn't know if her husband even considered if she was in the mood for sex. He just went for it. Didn't phase her at all. She loves her husband dearly.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Noticed you said she likely has Asperger's. A lot of people think that those with Asperger's, because they are often highly intelligent, don't have many of the same obstacles as others on the autism spectrum. Does she have sensory issues - hate certain auditory, visual or sensory stimuli like bright lights, flashing, crowds, certain foods? If yes, could it be that her aversion to oral and other things are related to sensory issues? If so, you may be able to work around them. Maybe it's the sounds? In which case you could try some sound blocking. People who are on the spectrum growing up are often harshly judged especially because their neurodiversity isn't a visible condition - people might have said mean things, looked at her oddly or otherwise ostracized her. And it's far worse for people who aren't visibly handicapped. Aversion to touch I have seen a lot, although everyone is different. Has she ever been formally diagnosed? If not maybe consider encouraging her to go see the doctor not because there is something "wrong with her" but because it can be cause relief in people who are finally diagnosed to have a reason why she has experienced certain things, and it can help them find coping mechanisms for everyday life, even things like relationships and sex.

Even if the answer is she doesn't have it or, it's not the sensory stuff, you should talk to her about it without shame or judgement. Ask her if she thinks it's possible?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Isn't this what his wife is doing?


Not quite from a place of desire. But she loves him and they are having sex. I would be happy.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Not quite from a place of desire. But she loves him and they are having sex. I would be happy.


The statement was 'a desire to fill the need FOR HIM'. One can't manufacture desire; but, one can make the effort to please. Lots of couples have chemistry but no desire to please one another due to resentments etc. Who is worse off?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> Cheat on her and be discrete.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Just a few generations ago she would have been considered the perfect wife and mother.

Back then it was assumed a decent, healthy woman would NOT have any sexual desire and women that confessed sexual desires to anyone including their doctor were at risk of being locked up in insane asylums and possibly subjected to drowning, shock treatments, lobotomy’s etc. 

Medical school textbooks at that time would spell out to medical students that healthy women were absent of innate sexual feelings and were devoted to hearth and home and the reading of children.

Women with desire were feared, shunned and shamed by polite society. 

A woman that provided sexual release to her husband but had no desire of her own was considered the perfect mate - She kept her H from being on the prowl in society but was considered to pose no risk of being a temptress or adulteress as she had no desire of her own. 

Your great grandfather would have been a fortunate man.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

But that doesn’t help your situation in 2021.

I think after 27 years you two have come to be self-actualized with the situation.

She is what she is. No amount of lotions and portions and choreplay or flowers, vacations or date nights is going to transform her into a porn chick. 

Your choices are limited yet simple - 

- suck it up and live with it.

- or seek it elsewhere if you want to experience actual desire and passion.

Whether you decide to discharge her from her other wifely contributions and go out as a single man vs be discrete and respectful of her concerns while seeking it on the side is a nuance and balance that you would have to determine.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

TX-SC said:


> other than divorce? Can I do anything?


No. Well, I mean, yes, you could get sex "on the side", but I could never recommend that. It will, despite anything you hear to the contrary, hurt your wife, if you do.



TX-SC said:


> I have finally determined that my wife may simply be asexual, or close to it. She told me that although she loves me, she has never been sexually attracted to me. She shared that she has never felt that for anyone, including ex boyfriends, movie actors, etc. She finds the thought of lesbianism disgusting and is definately not a lesbian.


Actually, this is somewhat a relief. My wife is not sexually attracted to me, however, she is to ex boyfriends, movie actors, country-music stars, etc. Makes me feel so inadequate and unworthy.



TX-SC said:


> This is truly a heartbreaking thing to hear. I think every person wants to be loved AND desired. To find out she's just not capable of it hurts my heart. She is against counseling.


I'll bet she IS capable. I'll bet the things she considered axiomatic in her life convinced her that "sex isn't important". It is a huge error. Why is she "against" counseling ??



sokillme said:


> The counter could be you can have all that without being married to them.


Yes. That is the thing that utterly pisses me off. I could take my clothes to a laundry, I have plenty of "friends" for whom I do not have to invest my time and energy so they can mollycoddle their extended family. I could be watching football with my popcorn and my beer on Thanksgiving instead of trying to keep myself awake at someone else's house. I don't need a chauffeur to take me to the doctor. I can drive myself. I damn sure don't need 9 cats and a dog.



oldshirt said:


> She is what she is. No amount of lotions and portions and choreplay or flowers, vacations or date nights is going to transform her into a porn chick.


Thank you for pointing out this complete hogwash which sold millions, maybe billions, of dollars worth of books, CDs, seminars, but didn't transform one single woman into a porn chick, neither did it transform any of their husbands into ex-boyfriends, country-music stars, or Brad Pitt.


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## OddOne (Sep 27, 2018)

TX-SC said:


> So, any recommendations other than divorce? Can I do anything?


No and no.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

TX-SC said:


> This is truly a heartbreaking thing to hear. I think every person wants to be loved AND desired. To find out she's just not capable of it hurts my heart. She is against counseling.


This is the heart of the issue, If she would have more sex and things such as allow oral etc. you would likely still be very bothered by the fact you know she's not doing it because she desires you. It's not the lack of sexual activities but her lack of desire that is the real problem.

With some sex therapy and counseling she could maybe come around to a bit more variety and frequency but she can't fabricate real desire. So it's up to you to see if you can find a way to be happy with what you can get. Just like she can't force herself to develop sexual desire, you can't force yourself with a situation you're not happy with. The sadness you feel as a result of her lack of desire will always rise to the surface. 

One of the big issues is also she doesn't relate to how you feel. If what she has told you is true and she has never had sexual desire for anyone she has no frame of reference to what it is like. So in her mind she hears you love her and probably just wonders what else is there, if you love someone you love them why do you need them to be hot for you if you know they love you too. She just doesn't get it she never will. 

SO I think you need to be completely honest with yourself about your ability to accept it for what it is or not. And then you need to be honest with her about whether or not you can live your life never having a sexual relationship with mutual desire. 

One thing you could try as a last ditch attempt is to get her on some testosterone, something like 20-30mgs injectable a week-10 days. If that doesn't awaken a sexual desire in her after a month or so there is no hope at all.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

TX-SC said:


> I think perhaps you have read much into my thread that is not there.* I have spent 27 years doing everything I can to make her want sex more often.* We have lots of toys, lots of lotions, etc. But as I said, she has indicated that she has never been sexually attracted to anyone. No previous boyfriend, no celebrity, nobody. She says she can acknowledge that someone is attractive and feels that about me, but there is simply no sexual desire. It has nothing to do with "learning what she needs" as I plainly said she orgasms at least once every time we have sex. And yes, she gets a hard penis blowing a big load each time too!


IMHO, this is your problem right here. You've spent the better part of your life trying to change something about someone who sounds like they have no interest in changing it.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

hubbyintrubby said:


> IMHO, this is your problem right here. You've spent the better part of your life trying to change something about someone who sounds like they have no interest in changing it.


The problem is bigger than that. If it was just that she has no interest in changing that would mean it was possible. In this situation It is likely not even possible even if she wants it to change.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

hubbyintrubby said:


> IMHO, this is your problem right here. You've spent the better part of your life trying to change something about someone who sounds like they have no interest in changing it.


I don't think she is not interested... she is just busy dealing with her mental issues, in her head. That's her priority, then the kids. There is no room for her husband.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I don't think she is not interested... she is just busy dealing with her mental issues, in her head. That's her priority, then the kids. There is no room for her husband.


I get that part...but trying to change someone else will always lead to frustration and resentment. It's just delusional at it's core and will and would leave anybody feeling defeated like the OP does now, I'm sure.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

hubbyintrubby said:


> I get that part...but trying to change someone else will always lead to frustration and resentment. It's just delusional at it's core and will and would leave anybody feeling defeated like the OP does now, I'm sure.


We do agree...


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the replies. I can answer more in depth later, but I sincere appreciate the responses.

I do get that she goes out of her way to try and at least make me happy occasionally. I guess the issues that although this is awesome ofher, it's really not the same having sex with someone who really would prefer to be elsewhere. It's like playing a board game with someone who doesn't want to be there. They go through the motions, but there is no desire to be doing it.

I do believe the asperger's is a sensory issue for her. She hates to hug and kiss. I always have to initiate that and she will push me away after just a few seconds. She feels claustrophobic in that regard and doesn't like the proxemity. As for sex, semen is yucky and if she even gets it on her hand she is grossed out. So, I don't doubt that the asperger's is part of that.

The issue I'm trying to relate is simply that it's difficult having a marriage to someone who simply can't feel desire for you. I'm nit sure how else to frame that. And yes, I do try to put myself in her shoes and I have been accommodating HER needs as well, so I hopefolks here can see that I'm not a monster trying to force his wife to be something she's not.

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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LisaDiane said:


> That's not what I'm talking about though...I mean, feeling turned on by the fact that I am the only one he wants to express his sexual desires with. It's not just about filling a need - it's about being excited that he has that need FOR ME.
> And caring about my partner enough so that when he needs something, I want to give it to him from a place of desire to fill that need FOR HIM.


This exactly!

I genuinely could accept a LD partner, as long she was providing at a good frequency and variety - happily, out of love for me and the relationship.

But only once a month; don't do x, y, and z; and communicating clearly that she gets nothing out of it. And then lied about it to boot? No thank you.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Time is always better spent by cultivating a new relationship than trying to fix a broken one.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

She's asexual. I guess she wanted companionship, a family, and loves you as a person, but she's got a disconnect from her Asperger's about sex. It's not on her brain, and for women, it's all about the brain. Honestly, orgasm alone isn't enough for a lot of women. I mean, they can orgasm on their own if they want to. It's sometimes all about affection and love, or having babies. There's nothing wrong with her physically, but she has a brain chemistry problem that is not going to be solved. 

It's normal for autistic people not to like to be touched, from the time they're young. She has no connect between orgasm and love, it sounds like. She doesn't connect the dots. She can love without orgasm. She can orgasm without love, but doesn't sound like she has any interest in it. She can't empathize with your situation because it's not how she is. 

They can have interpersonal relationships otherwise. 

You have to decide if you love her enough to stay or if you love sex too much to stay. I suppose you could have the talk with her about how she feels if you were to have sex on the side some way, a prostitute or whatever. I imagine she'd feel she was going to lose you if you brought it up, though, so better be ready for that because it will likely be a big blowout.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You have an old hound dog but are wanting a race dog. 

You can’t change a hound dog into a greyhound. 

Someone above mentioned testosterone. Yes that may stimulate a libido.

But that is artificially changing someone’s body chemistry through artificial and unnatural means. 

Additionally that has side effects and untoward effects of its own. 

So that and even counseling bring in a whole other set of moral/ethical issues on much you can do to make someone want to do something they do not already want to do.

It’s one thing for you to try to change YOUR appearance and behavior to see if that stimulates a response in someone else.

But it’s a whole other moral/ethical ball of wax to try to change someone else’s body chemistry and hormonal balance for YOUR enjoyment.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

No point in trying hormones. She can already orgasm. She is autistic with Asperger's and all you have to do is google Asperber's and sex and up comes many articles about the lack of sexuality being normal for them. It's not going to change, not with therapy or drugs.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> But it’s a whole other moral/ethical ball of wax to try to change someone else’s body chemistry and hormonal balance for YOUR enjoyment.


If she's willing, then there isn't a dilemma. If she's not willing, then perhaps she can be a good friend, but he could divorce, move on, and find a far better relationship. I did (after 24 years), and have been very happy ever since.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No point in trying hormones. She can already orgasm. She is autistic with Asperger's and all you have to do is google Asperber's and sex and up comes many articles about the lack of sexuality being normal for them. It's not going to change, not with therapy or drugs.


I think hormones could boost her libido, IF she's willing to try.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

TX-SC said:


> ...so I hopefolks here can see that I'm not a monster trying to force his wife to be something she's not.


You may be, with the best of intentions, something of a monster towards yourself, trying to force yourself to be something you are not.

I think your only potential for relief here is to deeply examine why you’ve tilted at this windmill for so many years of your life, and why you were willing to survive on so little crumbs for so long.

I think you could benefit from detaching, and contemplate what you have missed for so much of your life, and whether you, effectively, paid that price just so she could be what? — not inconvenienced by legal separation or divorce, finding her own way alone in life? So you or her can avoid feeling fear of being uncoupled and alone? So you could feel you were doing the right thing, according to some vague notions absorbed in childhood?

Im not saying the answers to questions you have not posed are all relevant or negative. But, I suspect you will never be content where you are if you have not made a conscious choice to understand the current trade offs, and then choose to stay and to give up exactly what you are missing, or choose to leave honoring your own needs. As it is now, you are holding on to something you didn’t choose, merely because you were duped or confused. Do you feel free to reconsider the whole deal, guiltlessly and as a matter of course? If not, why do you suppose you don’t you feel that?

Perhaps you could divorce, but stay in your house together and live as roommates literally and legally. Seems like that would be more humane towards you. You could reevaluate as time goes by.

I feel for you. Lots of similarities to my situation.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, it does sound like bait and switch. Unfortunately, this is who she is and it’s very unlikely she could or would ever change. That leaves you with a choice.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Married but Happy said:


> I think hormones could boost her libido, IF she's willing to try.


I don't. I've been on hormones my entire life. They are not miracle workers on libido. She has a brain chemistry condition and a disconnect. This isn't about her hormones. It's normal for women with autism to not be sexual.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@DownByTheRiver and others,

Of course I don’t speak for the OP and you weren’t talking to me, but IME experience it’s not the sex acts that that are missing and could be supplied by others (prostitutes, fwb, strangers). It is the sexual intimacy/sharing and mutual vulnerability given from a place of love and with a desire to connect. A celebration of connection with the other, a connection that is deep and special and exclusive.

It’s also the awareness that one’s supposed partner in life rejects oneself , and can’t or chooses not to muster what is required to want that connection.

Sure, ****ing is fun. But when one is starved for real nutrition, sugar isn’t much help or satisfying. Nor does it take away the confusing helpless feeling of watching one’s partner feel nothing but indifference to one’s hunger.

Speaking for myself.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

TX-SC said:


> I guess the issues that although this is awesome of her,* it's really not the same having sex with someone who really would prefer to be elsewhere. *It's like playing a board game with someone who doesn't want to be there. They go through the motions, but there is no desire to be doing it.


This is the part I don't get. My wife and pretty much every woman I have been with have orgasmed with their mind more than anything else. If a woman is not into it (wants to be elsewhere), there is nothing I can do that'll make her orgasm. So when you say she orgasms every time, and then write this, it makes me think maybe she's faking it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> I think your only potential for relief here is to deeply examine why you’ve tilted at this windmill for so many years of your life, and why you were willing to survive on so little crumbs for so long.


This is what is so disheartening. So many people (men and women) come here after decades of marriage and want to know how to fix it. Their youth has passed them by and now they want to know what to do. Why? Midlife crisis, maybe. Contemplating their mortality, maybe. The time to do something was twenty years ago.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> The time to do something was twenty years ago.


Very true, however, I also believe in the concept of better late than never, especially if you can have many good years ahead.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Again, thank you to everyone who has responded. To answer a few questions, yes it's the lack of intimacy that is hardest. It's really not JUST the sex. I can masturbate or I can stick my penis in her and have an orgasm. But that isn't intimacy as related to desire and being "wanted". I mentioned that she does not like hugging or kissing either. So, never do I get a random hug from behind while I'm cooking, or a kiss to say thanks, or anything of that matter. 

She also has a hard time expressing emotions. This I know is directly tied to her likely asperger's. The ONLY time she says "I love you" is when I say it first. I can look her in the eyes and say, "I love you so very much sweety!" Her response is ALWAYS "Love you too". No variation. 

On a side note, my daughters (18 and 16) have suffered too. The "typical" family dynamic of the doting and loving mother and somewhat stoic disciplinarian father is totally reversed for us. She never gives hugs or says she loves them unless prompted. I take up that slack by giving them the moral support, love, hugs, etc. that they need. A typical conversation 

"Mom, I made a 91 on my math test!"
"Okay, what did you miss? Why not a 95 or better? You need to think of college!"

"Dad, I made a 91on my math test!"
"That's great! Give me a hug and keep up the great work! Do you know why you missed a few? Might be worth reviewing those, but I'm so proud of you!"

But, with all of this said, she really is a great person and I do love her very much. We have been through a lot and we have built our company from scratch. I'm not the cheating kind and I am also a monogamous person. So, even if she said "go get sex elsewhere" I'm not sure I could do that without the potential for feelings to develop. 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Mybabysgotit said:


> This is the part I don't get. My wife and pretty much every woman I have been with have orgasmed with their mind more than anything else. If a woman is not into it (wants to be elsewhere), there is nothing I can do that'll make her orgasm. So when you say she orgasms every time, and then write this, it makes me think maybe she's faking it.


My wife is not shy about telling me if an orgasm isn't in the cards. Once we get warmed up, she will sometimes say "It's just not going to happen today, so let's concentrate on you". But, usually, if she closes her eyes and concentrates, she'll orgasm. But, what I meant is that it's the whole act of sex that she would just assume avoid. She would much rather be watching tv or working. Once we get started, I can ask her "Try closing your eyes and concentrating" and she usually will. Either way, I know that she's only there for me. And that's good in a way, but most people want to feel like their partner is there because they want that closeness too.

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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Her condition is just getting worse as she ages. Even as children, they don't like to be touched. That would certainly be the biggest problem for me, the lack of affection, but it's sex he's here about, which is usually the case.


Mybabysgotit said:


> This is the part I don't get. My wife and pretty much every woman I have been with have orgasmed with their mind more than anything else. If a woman is not into it (wants to be elsewhere), there is nothing I can do that'll make her orgasm. So when you say she orgasms every time, and then write this, it makes me think maybe she's faking it.


I know that would be true for me, but not everyone is the same and there are instances of women who involuntarily orgasm even during an assault or rape.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I am not sure that there is a solution to this issue that does not entail divorce, separation, or the OP seeking physical pleasures elsewhere. I worked with a woman years ago who was on the Spectrum. I even tried getting with her. Some very blunt but honest conversation told me that she was not wired for that kind of thing. Cuddling... cool. However, she was never going to lust after me and crave my touch. That set the record straight and I moved on within seconds.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> Again, thank you to everyone who has responded. To answer a few questions, yes it's the lack of intimacy that is hardest. It's really not JUST the sex. I can masturbate or I can stick my penis in her and have an orgasm. But that isn't intimacy as related to desire and being "wanted". I mentioned that she does not like hugging or kissing either. So, never do I get a random hug from behind while I'm cooking, or a kiss to say thanks, or anything of that matter.
> 
> She also has a hard time expressing emotions. This I know is directly tied to her likely asperger's. The ONLY time she says "I love you" is when I say it first. I can look her in the eyes and say, "I love you so very much sweety!" Her response is ALWAYS "Love you too". No variation.
> 
> ...


Good for you that you are a faithful man. It sounds as if her aspergers is the key and that cant change. You married her as she was after several years of living together and she is still the same, so not sure what you expected really. You clearly love her and she you, despite the lack of sex, a good strong marriage is far more important than casual sex on the side.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

TX-SC said:


> Again, thank you to everyone who has responded. To answer a few questions, yes it's the lack of intimacy that is hardest. It's really not JUST the sex. I can masturbate or I can stick my penis in her and have an orgasm. But that isn't intimacy as related to desire and being "wanted". I mentioned that she does not like hugging or kissing either. So, never do I get a random hug from behind while I'm cooking, or a kiss to say thanks, or anything of that matter.
> 
> She also has a hard time expressing emotions. This I know is directly tied to her likely asperger's. The ONLY time she says "I love you" is when I say it first. I can look her in the eyes and say, "I love you so very much sweety!" Her response is ALWAYS "Love you too". No variation.
> 
> ...


I guess I'm not sure why you are here NOW looking for help for this...why have you been satisfied enough up to this point?

You must know, after being on this site for a while, and if you read through ANY of the Sex in Marriage threads, that your two options are the ones you've already been told. 

From everything you've written here, it sounds like you've boxed yourself into a corner where you won't accept any of the only options you have without some form of regret...and maybe that's the main thing you need to take away from your situation and all the responses you've received -- no matter which path you choose, you are going to have to face losing SOMETHING. So you need to make the best choice for yourself, and then OWN that choice and the consequences.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

She just doesn't have that capacity. I imagine it took him a long time to rule out other reasons for her behavior and get educated about autism and Asperger's. And I imagine she got worse with age. She wouldn't have married you if she didn't love you to her capacity to the best she can. She obviously cares about you and is trying to work with you on sex at least to some extent but you're in decent enough man that you realize she just as soon not put herself through it. And I guess she wouldn't if she really really didn't want to. She loves you enough to try.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

TX-SC said:


> My wife likely has asperger's and tends to not like physical touch, hugging, kissing, etc. This has grown worse through the years.


This is how she is wired. This is not something that can be changed. She may, with therapy and effort, become more tolerant of touches, but she will never enjoy touching and sexuality the way neurotypicals do.



TX-SC said:


> I have spent 27 years doing everything I can to make her want sex more often. We have lots of toys, lots of lotions, etc. But as I said, she has indicated that she has never been sexually attracted to anyone. No previous boyfriend, no celebrity, nobody. She says she can acknowledge that someone is attractive and feels that about me, but there is simply no sexual desire.


Ok, so you know what you're dealing with here. 27 years, tons of effort, communication on both sides, and no change. Why? Because your wife isn't wired to want touch and sex. She's not. She can't change that. You can't change that. You can either accept as you have been, cheat very discreetly, or leave.



TX-SC said:


> Again, it's NOT about her sexual gratification. It's about her having zero desire for me or anyone else.


Yes, that's exactly right. So, why do you keep trying to find a way to make her desire you? She's not wired for sensuality. She doesn't want sex, not with you or anyone. She has been this way for nearly 3 decades. This is who she is. 



In Absentia said:


> Not quite from a place of desire. But she loves him and they are having sex. I would be happy.


I'd be miserable. Sex with someone who isn't into it is, at best, meh. At best. Very unsatisfying no matter how many orgasms result. I'd rather not have sex at all under those circumstances. It's less frustrating to go without than to have meh sex and be even more frustrated.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She has done considerably more than many in her situation would but she can’t change who she is. So you’ll have to accept her as she is or move on.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

RebuildingMe said:


> Time is always better spent by cultivating a new relationship than trying to fix a broken one.


In his Married Man Sex Life material, Athol Kay states this as, “It’s easier to give birth than resurrect the dead.”


TX-SC said:


> I'm not the cheating kind and I am also a monogamous person. So, even if she said "go get sex elsewhere" I'm not sure I could do that without the potential for feelings to develop.


But it’s the feelings that you are missing and that you say you want.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

She is missing a component that makes other people yearn and desire for others sexually.

This is like trying to get someone born without eyes appreciate a beautiful painting.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Desire is a foreign concept for some. It’s either there or it’s not. And it can’t be learned.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Not sure if you covered this with your wife, but have you sat her down and asked what she is she proposing, if she is telling how she feels and you tell her how important sex is too you, have to asked her what is she proposing and tell her you are not willing to accept her silence on this......and finally ask her if she is not happy with you having a side piece, then is she willing to accept that over divorce or is she willing to accept divorce over you finding someone else?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

I am autistic, two of my children are autistic and my wife may be autistic as well. Now knowing this is new to me. Since if it wasn't for having a child who is afflicted with anorexia and is now diagnosed as being autistic, I would never have found out.

That said I have plenty of sensory issues around touch, taste, texture, smell and noise. When I was a child I loathed most people including my parents touching/hugging me etc. While my wife is the same, in that since as far back as she can remember she doesn't like hugging or kisses on the cheek from anybody either.

We also don't often spend time hugging one another interminably, now we do like hugging each other, yet we keep it short because we both want the other to get off of us and give us space.

Yet I can assure all of you that autistic people aren't a monolith. Our son has always craved physical closeness, hugs and touches and draws comfort from it. While our daughter has always hated being hugged and held since she was a baby.

Yet lots of autistic people find others sexually attractive, love sex, love their sexual partners and love sharing physical affection with their sexual partners.

My wife and I frequently hold hands when out, we often sit close and hold each other. We frequently kiss each other, frequently flirt and we have always shared a tremendous amount of very afffectionate sex together. With missionary being enjoyed a lot, because we can kiss each other with our mouths while doing it. Amongst the many and varied ways that we have richly enjoyed loving each other.

So please let us not write off the collective of autistic people, as not being able to share physical affection and not being desirous of sharing sex.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Autistic people fall somewhere on the scale about sexuality. But it is normal to not like touch. There are also a certain segment who are actually hypersexual. So they're not all the same but the fact remains it's normal and not negotiable for the ones who are asexual.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I am guessing that you are what...in your 50's? Your marriage seems happy and you seem to love each other. You have been together a long time so what do you want to do? If it was me there is no way I would leave or cheat, marriage is about so many things and yes while sex is important, marriages can still be good with not much of it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I am guessing that you are what...in your 50's? Your marriage seems happy and you seem to love each other. You have been together a long time so what do you want to do? If it was me there is no way I would leave or cheat, marriage is about so many things and yes while sex is important, marriages can still be good with not much of it.


You are describing a friendship here, _not a marriage_.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> You are describing a friendship here, _not a marriage_.


Marriage partners are each other best and closest friends. I see that as the foundations of a good strong marriage.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> I am guessing that you are what...in your 50's? Your marriage seems happy and you seem to love each other. You have been together a long time so what do you want to do?


You are describing a relationship one has with their pet, not a marriage.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Eh.....I think some women may not be truthful, when they tell a guy that "it's not just you, I am not into sex period"...One of my best friends said his wife would tell him that(they weren't sexual), yet she'd often make flirtatious and suggestive comments when I was in her presence and he wasn't in earshot to hear it...When they divorced, she was with another guy pretty soon after.. And most guys don't enter into new relationships with known asexual women...

With all the threads you may read about here, and all the sob stories I have heard from guys over the years, I often think these scenarios play out because a lot of women often trade security, stability and other unrelated criteria, over sexual chemistry and raw physical attraction.. Add to the evidence of this being reality is a lot of second timers often report great sexual chemistry and frequency...Perhaps it's because the need for stability and security isn't as much of a necessity? I dunno...the pieces do seem to fit...

I don't know if I ever met a woman that had "no desire"...Not that they don't exist I am sure they do, and for all anyone knows, the OP's wife is one...I just don't think it's as common as you read or hear...Let's face it it's a lot less crushing to a guy to tell him you have zero interest, than tell him he repulses you or is a complete dud in terms of sexual attraction or performance..


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Marriage partners are each other best and closest friends. I see that as the foundations of a good strong marriage.


That's not all there is. That's why there is a difference between FRIEND and SPOUSE.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Marriage partners are each other best and closest friends. I see that as the foundations of a good strong marriage.


Nope, that’s codependency. Marriage should be partners, that compliment each other’s OWN lives. Best and closest friends? Nah...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> marriage is about so many things and yes while sex is important, marriages can still be good with not much of it.


If both partners have no interest is sex and both were perfectly happy without it, I would agree with you.

However that is not the case here. He wants to have mutual desire and passion, but she doesn’t feel that for him. This is causing him distress and dissatisfaction.

She is also likely experiencing a degree of distress and angst as she realizes she isn’t able to provide something important to him and even though he says he isn’t pressuring her, she is likely feeing pressured nonetheless. 

So this friendship-based marriage is not working.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Personal said:


> I am autistic, two of my children are autistic and my wife may be autistic as well. Now knowing this is new to me. Since if it wasn't for having a child who is afflicted with anorexia and is now diagnosed as being autistic, I would never have found out.
> 
> That said I have plenty of sensory issues around touch, taste, texture, smell and noise. When I was a child I loathed most people including my parents touching/hugging me etc. While my wife is the same, in that since as far back as she can remember she doesn't like hugging or kisses on the cheek from anybody either.
> 
> ...





DownByTheRiver said:


> Autistic people fall somewhere on the scale about sexuality. But it is normal to not like touch. There are also a certain segment who are actually hypersexual. So they're not all the same but the fact remains it's normal and not negotiable for the ones who are asexual.


I would not agree with the above statement. I have taught many kids on the spectrum. They are all individuals, hence the saying "if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism." As you can see from the member who shared about their relationship and kids, many people on the spectrum date, fall in love, have sex, marry, and have kids. So I would agree, let's not group people on the spectrum. One of my students LOVES hugs and just craves affection and friendship. Another dislikes physical touch but enjoys verbal affirmation. Everyone is different. 

If I misspoke I apologize. I just mentioned that OP's wife's sensory issues might be a part of her asperger's IF she has been diagnosed, and suggested if she hasn't, that she see a doctor to see if a formal diagnosis can give her some insight, and possibly some resources for help for navigating certain situations if she chooses to. Sometimes support groups for people on the spectrum have been helpful for either the individuals, or for partners of people on the spectrum, so maybe that's one resource she could consider. It's lonely to be neurodiverse sometimes. My son has ADHD which shares some diagnostic criteria with autism but is no longer considered to be part of the autism spectrum. And he felt very lonely and frustrated with himself before he met his tutor, who has ADHD. He felt judged by his peers and teachers sometimes for not acting the same as everyone. My thought was, that perhaps finding someone else or a group of people who are on the spectrum to talk to would giver her some perspective about the amazing ways in which a person's brain can be special and powerful, and some of the challenges that being neurodiverse presents. Sometimes just hearing that others are having difficulty with the same thing helps. And support groups for spouses who are not on the spectrum can give some help about how others have navigated issues like this before.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> You are describing a friendship here, _not a marriage_.


My husband is my absolute best and closest friend and life companion. Thats what our marriage is based on.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> If both partners have no interest is sex and both were perfectly happy without it, I would agree with you.
> 
> However that is not the case here. He wants to have mutual desire and passion, but she doesn’t feel that for him. This is causing him distress and dissatisfaction.
> 
> ...


Well they are still together after many many years and it depends on what you mean by working. They clearly love and respect each other a lot and in all marriages there is compromise about something .


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> Nope, that’s codependency. Marriage should be partners, that compliment each other’s OWN lives. Best and closest friends? Nah...


Being the closest of friends and life companions is absolutely nothing to do with co dependancy and does make us partners who compliment each others lives greatly.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> That's not all there is. That's why there is a difference between FRIEND and SPOUSE.


A spouse should always be your closet friend and companion through life. The rest builds on that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> You are describing a relationship one has with their pet, not a marriage.


Hmm weird comment.
Well I have a pet and my relationship with her is nothing like that of my relationship with my husband.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Well they are still together after many many years and it depends on what you mean by working. They clearly love and respect each other a lot and in all marriages there is compromise about something .


He is stating his chronic dissatisfaction and frustration, and is contemplating divorce or finding someone else. 

That is what I mean by not working.

You are kind of conveniently ignoring reality here. Your premise of a good marriage being based on friendship and goodwill is predicated on both not wanting an intimate relationship or sexuality within the relationship. 

Your assertion here is that as long as he cuts his balls off and puts that silly notion of marital sexuality away and simply enjoy her conversation and company, then all would be well.

The problem is that is NOT the case and he DOES want an intimate relationship, therefor your assertion that a companionate relationship is good enough, simply isn’t applicable here because for him a companionate relationship is NOT good enough.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> My husband is my absolute best and closest friend and life companion. Thats what our marriage is based on.


How nice for you.

Marriage is more than a friendship.

That's why there are different words used to describe _friend_ and _spouse_.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> He is stating his chronic dissatisfaction and frustration, and is contemplating divorce or finding someone else.
> 
> That is what I mean by not working.
> 
> ...


Thats his choice though surely? Especially as she may not be able to help the way she is? He has stayed with her for a long time and loves her and she him. Yes he is free to end the marriage of course if he feels that what they have isnt worth keeping, but he is also free to stay with a woman he loves and who loves him despte not having enough sex. 
He may not even meet another woman who he loves in this way, he may regret ending the marriage, he may realise too late what he did have, thats the risk he must take if he does end the marriage because they dont have sex as much as he would like. There are millions of single people searching for love and cant find it, good partners dont just drop into your lap. The older people get the harder it is because all the good ones are taken. The grass isnt always greener. 
Personally I would never leave my husband if we didnt have sex as much as I would like. I love him far too much to loose such a good man. I know I wouldn't find one who would compare. So the OP needs to decide if loosing his family is worth the risk.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> How nice for you.
> 
> Marriage is more than a friendship.
> 
> That's why there are different words used to describe _friend_ and _spouse_.


Yes its a close intimate friendship. The good marriages I know are ones where they are very close friends first of all.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Thats his choice though surely? Especially as she may not be able to help the way she is? He has stayed with her for a long time and loves her and she him. Yes he is free to end the marriage of course if he feels that what they have isnt worth keeping, but he is also free to stay with a woman he loves and who loves him despte not having enough sex.
> He may not even meet another woman who he loves in this way, he may regret ending the marriage, he may realise too late what he did have, thats the risk he must take if he does end the marriage because they dont have sex as much as he would like. There are millions of single people searching for love and cant find it, good partners dont just drop into your lap. The older people get the harder it is because all the good ones are taken. The grass isnt always greener.
> Personally I would never leave my husband if we didnt have sex as much as I would like. I love him far too much to loose such a good man. I know I wouldn't find one who would compare. So the OP needs to decide if loosing his family is worth the risk.


The term, “loosing his family” is a bit extreme. I dont know if he mentioned the kids age, but I would presume they are young adults. If he wants to have a relationship with them, he can; it’s not like any judges are going to be ordering visitation restrictions on a 22 year old. 

And if they have such a good friendship in all other areas, then is there any reason they can’t maintain an at least amicable and cooperative relationship if not actual friendship if divorced or in open marriage? 

If she doesn’t care about sex and doesn’t care to do it with him, then why should she care if he’s getting it elsewhere?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> The term, “loosing his family” is a bit extreme. I dont know if he mentioned the kids age, but I would presume they are young adults. If he wants to have a relationship with them, he can; it’s not like any judges are going to be ordering visitation restrictions on a 22 year old.
> 
> And if they have such a good friendship in all other areas, then is there any reason they can’t maintain an at least amicable and cooperative relationship if not actual friendship if divorced or in open marriage?
> 
> If she doesn’t care about sex and doesn’t care to do it with him, then why should she care if he’s getting it elsewhere?


He may well find that if he abandons their mother they will take it badly, I would have done if it was my dad who did that.

Well if your husband walks out on you, its not often that you would want to remain friends, especially for something that you cant even help. She may care because she loves him.Open marriges are not for the vast majority.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> He may well find that if he abandons their mother they will take it badly, I would have done if it was my dad who did that.


Absent having any way to share a decent sex life within a marriage. It’s statements like yours, which make cheating one of the the most decent options.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I will answer more later, but my daughters are 16 and 18.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TX-SC said:


> I will answer more later, but my daughters are 16 and 18.


I can see you are torn between leaving and happiness and the duty you feel to stay and look after your wife, who clearly has mental issues and needs help. Not an easy choice. How do you think she would cope on her own?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> Absent having any way to share a decent sex life within a marriage. It’s statements like yours, which make cheating one of the the most decent options.


I think he is a decent man who wouldnt contemplate lies, deception and adultery.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> I can see you are torn between leaving and happiness and the duty you feel to stay and look after your wife, who clearly has mental issues and needs help. Not an easy choice. How do you think she would cope on her own?


Ia autism a mental issue?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Ia autism a mental issue?


You are correct that autism/Asperger's are not mental conditions (they are developmental conditions), but very often they go hand in hand with mental issues. From what the OP described, I think this might apply. But the main problem remains: abandoning your wife with a condition (whatever that is) can't be easy.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> You are correct that autism/Asperger's are not mental conditions (they are developmental conditions), but very often they go hand in hand with mental issues. From what the OP described, I think this might apply. But the main problem remains: abandoning your wife with a condition (whatever that is) can't be easy.


I agree with you, especially as the problems he talks about with her are probably not her fault. Its a hard situation but I wouldnt leave my spouse in this situation.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Personal said:


> Absent having any way to share a decent sex life within a marriage. It’s statements like yours, which make cheating one of the the most decent options.


Yes it brings to the forefront a moral dilemma for which there is no clear-cut perfect option.

Each individual must decide for him/herself which is the lesser of multiple painful options -

- remain in a chronically frustrated and dissatisfied state and eventually become chronically resentful and embittered. 

- incur the expense and heartache of ending a long term relationship and deal with all the potential ramifications of that.

- get certain needs met outside the relationship while trying to keep the primary relationship reasonably intact. 

Neither is going to be a perfect solution for anyone but each individual we need to determine which will be the least bad for him/her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TX-SC said:


> I will answer more later, but my daughters are 16 and 18.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


I’m in the same boat and my kids are 16 and almost 19.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Yes it brings to the forefront a moral dilemma for which there is no clear-cut perfect option.
> 
> Each individual must decide for him/herself which is the lesser of multiple painful options -
> 
> ...


I dont agree that they are the only choices, you can choose to stay, be the best spouse and parent you can, and be always thankful for what you do have and choose not lt let yourself become resentful or embittered. No 3, if you choose this you may well become a much lesser person with no moral fibre, having your ideas of honesty and decency eroded as you lie and deceive the one you claim to love. Either way it would change you for the worse.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I dont agree that they are the only choices, you can choose to stay, be the best spouse and parent you can, and be always thankful for what you do have and choose not lt let yourself become resentful or embittered. No 3, if you choose this you may well become a much lesser person with no moral fibre, having your ideas of honesty and decency eroded as you lie and deceive the one you claim to love. Either way it would change you for the worse.


Sorry, it just doesn’t work that way with deep, innate desires. One cannot will themselves to not be resentful and embittered when they are being denied something that is important to them and critical for their own happiness and well being.

It’s easy for you church ladies to point your fingers at other people and tell them how they ‘should’ feel..... but actual, living, breathing human beings don’t work that way. 

People feel what they feel, want what they want and need what they need to be in a healthy and functional relationship.

People simply can not turn off those feelings, wants and needs to conform to YOUR sense of morality.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Sorry, it just doesn’t work that way with deep, innate desires. One cannot will themselves to not be resentful and embittered when they are being denied something that is important to them and critical for their own happiness and well being.
> 
> It’s easy for you church ladies to point your fingers at other people and tell them how they ‘should’ feel..... but actual, living, breathing human beings don’t work that way.
> 
> ...


I am not a 'church lady,' but a Christian. I havent actually been to church for a long time as it happens.
Simply saying that we are able to choose to be thankful or resentful. Content or discontent. Believe me I have learnt that through some really hard times in my life, we are just as human as you are and go through hard and painful times.
I believe the OP has already said that he doesn't want to committ adultery and I respect him for that.

I think of the many people who are in marriages when one spouse isnt able to have sex, thinking of Christopher Reeve and David Schumaker after their accidents. Of those with cancer or severe disabilities. Many have it far harder than the OP and still manage to enjoy what they do have. In the end it is a choice as to how we deal with things that come our way.

Thinking of an old friend of mine who was my best friend from school who emailed me yesteday saying that her husband has been ill since the New Year and they were told this week that he has terminal cancer and he hasnt got long to live. Se isnt that old, only 64. Her email was full of positivity and thankfullness despite her pain and the pain of their adult children, as I said its a choice. Not saying its easy, but its entirely possible.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

There is a big difference between not being physically able to have sex and simply choosing not to.

When you sign up for monogamy you have a single sex provider and if they decide not to participate; in the absence of anything being wrong (a wide variety of things can be wrong) when the excuse is, “I don’t feel like it, I’d rather play Candy Crush” well then I think the sexual pursuer is justified in dissolving the agreement.

Those conditions I think are fairly rare, there is almost always more to it than someone simply declining. I think if many sexual pursuers really look at their behavior and relationship they can pinpoint other problems. But let’s say there aren’t any and really there is no excuse for the lack of sex other than the sexual distancer doesn’t feel like it.

In that case well I think you’re good to bounce out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> There is a big difference between not being physically able to have sex and simply choosing not to.
> 
> When you sign up for monogamy you have a single sex provider and if they decide not to participate; in the absence of anything being wrong (a wide variety of things can be wrong) when the excuse is, “I don’t feel like it, I’d rather play Candy Crush” well then I think the sexual pursuer is justified in dissolving the agreement.
> 
> ...


I do think that having autism/aspergers as has been said can cause such problems. I do think she loves him and I do think she tries, but she is who she is and she has what she has.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I do think that having autism/aspergers as has been said can cause such problems. I do think she loves him and I do think she tries, but she is who she is and she has what she has.


And he is what he is and he has what he has ..... and what he has may not be good enough for him anymore.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I think of the many people who are in marriages when one spouse isnt able to have sex, thinking of Christopher Reeve and David Schumaker after their accidents. Of those with cancer or severe disabilities. Many have it far harder than the OP and still manage to enjoy what they do have. In the end it is a choice as to how we deal with things that come our way.


Because I love my wife and my love for her is not selfish. I don't want my wife to suffer celibacy if I were unable to have sex with her. So I want her to feel free to have sex with others to meet the shortfall. Of which she is already aware of my thoughts on this and she has expressed the same to me as well.

Likewise if I was unwilling instead of unable to share much or any sex with my wife, I appreciate that my wife would be entirely justified to seek sex elsewhere.

Since imposing a limited marital sex life on ones spouse or no sex life at all in a monogamous marriage. While expecting the denied spouse to not get sex elsewhere is selfish, immoral and especially repugnant behaviour. Of which my wife also shares that perspective as well.

At the end of the day if someone expects sexual fidelity in a monogamous marriage they ought to put out, unless they are unable to.

Then if they aren't able to and aren't selfish, they wouldn't want their spouse to suffer celibacy, so they would be okay with their denied spouse meeting those needs with others.

On the other hand if they were unable to and expected celibacy from their spouse, they would evidently be selfish, and morally bankrupt, so they would deserve to be cheated on.

Also if they were simply unwilling to put out and are unwilling to okay their spouse meeting their sexual needs elsewhere, then they also deserve to be cheated upon. Since they forfeit such consideration, when they have demonstrated no consideration for their own spouse through their denial of sex and demand for sexual fidelity in the face of their denial.

@TX-SC in the face of your wife's choices, you should feel morally free to have your sexual needs met elsewhere through any of the following means. Either through the dissolution of your marriage, choosing an open marriage, or by way of cheating on your wife.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I am not a 'church lady,' but a Christian. I havent actually been to church for a long time as it happens.
> Simply saying that we are able to choose to be thankful or resentful. Content or discontent. Believe me I have learnt that through some really hard times in my life, we are just as human as you are and go through hard and painful times.
> I believe the OP has already said that he doesn't want to committ adultery and I respect him for that.
> 
> ...


Well, the choice to enjoy what you have runs both ways. Also your examples don't include cases of deception.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> Because I love my wife and my love for her is not selfish. I don't want my wife to suffer celibacy if I were unable to have sex with her. So I want her to feel free to have sex with others to meet the shortfall. Of which she is already aware of my thoughts on this and she has expressed the same to me as well.
> 
> Likewise if I was unwilling instead of unable to share much or any sex with my wife, I appreciate that my wife would be entirely justified to seek sex elsewhere.
> 
> ...


I see committing adultery as 'selfish, immoral and especially repugnant behaviour.' and I love my husband too much for him to have to suffer the consequences of doing that. Not that he would anyway. We both know that sex is for marriage and not outside it. I see that telling our spouse to get sex elesewhere as especially selfish, because we know it will all end in tears and pain. Plus you are using others for selfish reasons when you are staying in the marriage.
Honestly sex in marriage is so important, but we really dont die if we dont get it as much as we would like. Honest. I just dont get how anyone who loves and respects their spouse could even think of treating them so shoddily as to committ adultery even if they do give their 'permission'.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DTO said:


> Well, the choice to enjoy what you have runs both ways. Also your examples don't include cases of deception.


Committing adultery on a spouse is deception. Lying is deception.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Committing adultery on a spouse is deception. Lying is deception.


No and nor does the Ops wife's case.
Sleeping with someone outside the marriage is the worst deception.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DTO said:


> Well, the choice to enjoy what you have runs both ways. Also your examples don't include cases of deception.


Regardless of how others act we can still chosoe to act well. marriage isnt all about me me me, much of it is unselfish or should be.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Committing adultery on a spouse is deception. Lying is deception.


So then, isn't leading someone to believe you're "into" (physically attracted) them, when you are not, a lie?

Of course it is. Or, at least it's a lie by omission, which is just as bad. The reality is that men, unless older, consider regular sex with an interested partner to be vital to a good marriage.

Look at it this way: how many men would marry a lady who says "I'm not attracted to you like that"? Very few would: right or wrong, that's just reality. Ladies know this, and some will allow a guy to think they're into it to get him to commit. If that isn't deception I don't know what else you would call it.

The only honorable way is to state your true feelings. I've let go a good lady who wanted to build with me but that chemistry weren't there. She brought a lot to the table so I understand that moving on takes sacrifice. 

I could have just gone with it. But being honest with myself and fair to her demanded otherwise. I would have been every bit a liar if I let things go on a marriage track, but integrity demands otherwise.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

DTO said:


> So then, isn't leading someone to believe you're "into" (physically attracted) them, when you are not, a lie?


In summary what is being peddled is the idea that a man should stay married to a wife in a monogamous marriage, where his wife refuses to have sex with him interminably. Yet he must remain celibate to honour his vows of sexual fidelity, in the face of his wife abandoning her vows by refusing to share sex with her spouse.

In other words the message is, it's perfectly fine for a wife to break her marital vows by refusing sex. While her husband should ignore his wife breaking her marital vows, and suck it up because that is not a valid reason to end his marriage.

That's ridiculous of course, yet some people evidently buy it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> That's ridiculous of course, yet some people evidently buy it.


It really depends on the reason and the degree... in case of autism/asperger's, maybe not, but, as I said, it depends on the degree. If we are here complaining about our partners withholding sex for mental issues/autism, and we've lived for many years with them, then we must know that they are capable of having sex but they won't put the effort in... to me, this is enough to divorce. And also refusing therapy if therapy is a viable option.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> In summary what is being peddled is the idea that a man should stay married to a wife in a monogamous marriage, where his wife refuses to have sex with him interminably. Yet he must remain celibate to honour his vows of sexual fidelity, in the face of his wife abandoning her vows by refusing to share sex with her spouse.
> 
> In other words the message is, it's perfectly fine for a wife to break her marital vows by refusing sex. While her husband should ignore his wife breaking her marital vows, and suck it up because that is not a valid reason to end his marriage.
> 
> That's ridiculous of course, yet some people evidently buy it.


I have not heard anyone here saying its ok for a spouse to never have any sex with their spouse. I dont believe that never having sex is the case here anyway, its less than he would like yes. I also dont believe that not having enough sex for one spouse is breaking the marriage vows, but it is really not a good idea and can cause all sorts of problems. However as we know from this thread, there are situations in life where for whatever reason one spouse cant have sex, or not as much as the other spouse would like, and to me thats where the for better and for worse comes in. If the spouse who wants more sex then goes and cheats, lies and deceives, he is just as bad if not worse and may well implode all their lives. Yes he can end the marriage if he feels that his love for the family and what he has with them isnt worth hanging on to, but there is a big trade off here, not one that I would risk or want if I had an otherwise good marriage with someone I loved.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I have not heard anyone here saying its ok for a spouse to never have any sex with their spouse. I dont believe that never having sex is the case here anyway, its less than he would like yes. I also dont believe that not having enough sex for one spouse is breaking the marriage vows, but it is really not a good idea and can cause all sorts of problems. However as we know from this thread, there are situations in life where for whatever reason one spouse cant have sex, or not as much as the other spouse would like, and to me thats where the for better and for worse comes in. If the spouse who wants more sex then goes and cheats, lies and deceives, he is just as bad if not worse and may well implode all their lives. Yes he can end the marriage if he feels that his love for the family and what he has with them isnt worth hanging on to, but there is a big trade off here, not one that I would risk or want if I had an otherwise good marriage with someone I loved.


I understand and respect your values on this. But two things to point out:

One, for many people (men and women) sex is much more central to the relationship than it might be to you. Without that frequently reinforced bond, those romantic loving feelings dry up. Personally, if you consistently ignore my intimate needs, your needs are going to diminish in priority as well.

And I think that's a big issue in these mis-matches. From reading these anecdotes, a pattern emerges where the lower drive partner wants a pass on providing sex but expects their interactions to be otherwise unchanged.

That is a hard pass for many of us. It's one thing to my partner to have really low drive or mental / emotional issues that make more or different sex unwelcome. But if she wants me to serve her diligently despite the lack of sex, that is a respect issue. You can do or not do as you please, but to expect more out of me than of yourself means you value yourself higher and not as an equal.

Second, not everyone is as risk averse as you. You wouldn't want to break up over it and take your chances. Many folks, me included, believe in ourselves enough to take that chance, and that is also okay.

Three, kids aren't necessarily better off with parents who tough it out. I know my daughter prefers to see me alone and happy, and I'm a better parent without having to deal with an indifferent spouse.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DTO said:


> I understand and respect your values on this. But two things to point out:
> 
> One, for many people (men and women) sex is much more central to the relationship than it might be to you. Without that frequently reinforced bond, those romantic loving feelings dry up. Personally, if you consistently ignore my intimate needs, your needs are going to diminish in priority as well.
> 
> ...


I am not risk averse, I have taken many risks and made many changes in my life(I ended my first marriage of 25 years for example and was a single mum of three for several difficult years). Its not the fear or risk of change that would make me stay, but if I was with a man I loved, and had an otherwise good strong marriage, I would put that above having sex with random people just for the sake of having sex. 
I do think that sex is very important in a marriage but I also think that when things happen that cant always be helped or forseen, its not the time to run away but to think of the vows made and promises made. To love in a selfless way. To think of the children who would be hurt(and they are hurt I have seen so many divorces happen with the children of all ages messed up).
Still we each choose our way in life and we dont all see things the same way.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I am not risk averse, I have taken many risks and made many changes in my life(I ended my first marriage of 25 years for example and was a single mum of three for several difficult years). Its not the fear or risk of change that would make me stay, but if I was with a man I loved, and had an otherwise good strong marriage, I would put that above having sex with random people just for the sake of having sex.
> I do think that sex is very important in a marriage but I also think that when things happen that cant always be helped or forseen, its not the time to run away but to think of the vows made and promises made. To love in a selfless way. To think of the children who would be hurt(and they are hurt I have seen so many divorces happen with the children of all ages messed up).
> Still we each choose our way in life and we dont all see things the same way.


I agree that unforseen and unavoidable changes need to be accepted and dealt with. However, marrying a person to whom you are not physically attracted is neither of those.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I sincerely appreciate all of these posts and most are defining in real terms what my dilemma is and has been. I do feel duped due to the whole bait and switch aspect. I also feel less attractive or desired because my wife readily admits she has never been attracted to me in a sexual way (or anyone else, but still!). By the same token, aside from affection, she is a good friend and partner, and she does try to at least meet some of my needs. 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

TX-SC said:


> I sincerely appreciate all of these posts and most are defining in real terms what my dilemma is and has been. I do feel duped due to the whole bait and switch aspect. I also feel less attractive or desired because my wife readily admits she has never been attracted to me in a sexual way (or anyone else, but still!). By the same token, aside from affection, she is a good friend and partner, and she does try to at least meet some of my needs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Understood. I did a slow burn too 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

TX-SC said:


> I sincerely appreciate all of these posts and most are defining in real terms what my dilemma is and has been. I do feel duped due to the whole bait and switch aspect. I also feel less attractive or desired because my wife readily admits she has never been attracted to me in a sexual way (or anyone else, but still!). By the same token, aside from affection, she is a good friend and partner, and she does try to at least meet some of my needs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


You are feeding yourself a line of crap to justify staying in this relationship. She “tries” to meet “some” of your needs? You have set the bar far too low, brother.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> My husband is my absolute best and closest friend and life companion. Thats what our marriage is based on.


Ugh, I find myself agreeing with Diane again.
Then again, I’ve never had a bad physical relationship, and wish I had the friend stuff better, so I’m biased.

what happens when they’re 10 years older and one or the other or both can’t have sex?
I’d still like to have a friend to talk to. Thing is, OP’s wife doesn’t even like to snuggle. Myself, I can’t make it without lots of snuggling. I think I’ll be ok if I get to be 70 or 80 and can’t have sex, but I still better get some snuggling or I’m out.😊


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Ugh, I find myself agreeing with Diane again.
> Then again, I’ve never had a bad physical relationship, and wish I had the friend stuff better, so I’m biased.
> 
> what happens when they’re 10 years older and one or the other or both can’t have sex?
> I’d still like to have a friend to talk to. Thing is, OP’s wife doesn’t even like to snuggle. Myself, I can’t make it without lots of snuggling. I think I’ll be ok if I get to be 70 or 80 and can’t have sex, but I still better get some snuggling or I’m out.😊


I don’t believe there is such a thing as “can’t have sex.” 

There are quadriplegics on ventilators that have sex lives. They can’t feed or even breathe for themselves yet have sex lives. 

There are a variety of conditions they may prevent someone from having PIV intercourse, but IMHO the only thing that can keep an mentally competent, consenting adult from having a sex life is lack of a willing partner. 

PIV is simply one act in a huge spectrum of human sexuality and sexual expression. 

If someone is not engaging in sexual activity with a willing partner - it is because they do not want to,,,, it is never because they “can’t.”


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