# Mom6547 and everyone else time outs not working!



## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Am I doing this wrong? 3 years old - this scenario just happened! He is standing on chair looking out window pushing on and ripping screen. Me: please don't do that you're tearing screen. He looks at me and keeps on. Me: you can look outside just don't push on screen. He looks at me and keeps on. Me removing him from window: until you stop, you can't be at window. Then the fit starts. He screams no, tries to bite my thigh. I put him on time out steo. He keeps trying to get up. I hold him on time out step. He spits in my face. I hold him til he calms and I let him loose after 3 minutes and tell him why he was on time out. Is this right? My other two were NOT like that! I don't know where he gets the biting and spitting from. He's not in daycare.
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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

According to Supernanny - you shouldn't hold him on the 'naughty' step. You should place him there over and over every time he gets up and then you walk to another area of the room or house where you can still see him, but you don't engage with him. It can take HOURS sometimes based on the show, but they eventually all give in and sit there. If you are holding him down there, its not really putting him in time out - he still has your full attention. 

At the end you re-explain why he is there, he has to apologize before getting up and then hug and kiss and Mommy loves you.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> Am I doing this wrong? 3 years old - this scenario just happened! He is standing on chair looking out window pushing on and ripping screen. Me: please don't do that you're tearing screen. He looks at me and keeps on. Me: you can look outside just don't push on screen. He looks at me and keeps on. Me removing him from window: until you stop, you can't be at window. Then the fit starts. He screams no, tries to bite my thigh. I put him on time out steo. He keeps trying to get up. I hold him on time out step. He spits in my face. I hold him til he calms and I let him loose after 3 minutes and tell him why he was on time out. Is this right? My other two were NOT like that! I don't know where he gets the biting and spitting from. He's not in daycare.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yikes! 

I will rewrite the interaction. Damaging property is in the BIG category to me. 

ME: You do not have the right to damage property. Stop now or I will remove you. <-- Set the operational parameter. Give desired action and failure consequence right off the back.

He continues.

You remove him to his room where you either have a half door or a baby gate or can safely shut the door. You leave. You return when his fit is over. Make sure his time out space is 
- safe
- inescapable
- does not require you - remove the temptation to get to you

He has no recourse but to get over the tantrum. It may take a while.

Compare this to a minor situation like coloring on the floor

- The floor is not for coloring. Would you like paper and crayons or the chalk and chalkboard? <---- limited choices

This book is a super easy read and might be helpful to you.

Amazon.com: Setting Limits: How to Raise Responsible, Independent Children by Providing Clear Boundaries (Revised and Expanded Second Edition) (0086874512122): Robert J. Mackenzie: Books


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

TNgirl232 said:


> According to Supernanny - you shouldn't hold him on the 'naughty' step. You should place him there over and over every time he gets up and then you walk to another area of the room or house where you can still see him, but you don't engage with him. It can take HOURS sometimes based on the show, but they eventually all give in and sit there. If you are holding him down there, its not really putting him in time out - he still has your full attention.
> 
> At the end you re-explain why he is there, he has to apologize before getting up and then hug and kiss and Mommy loves you.



Yah that is why I prefer a time out space that is enclosing. Gets the power struggle out of the picture.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Yah that is why I prefer a time out space that is enclosing. Gets the power struggle out of the picture.


I can't do power struggle! I have a 6 month old. I used to do the playpen in bedroom but he can crawl out now. I will do the baby gate. Do I wait til he stops freaking before time out starts? I really appreciate this - my older two were mild mannered and rarely had tantrums. This little guy is speech delayed so that might be part of frustration. We start therapy next week so hopefully that helps.
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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> I can't do power struggle! I have a 6 month old. I used to do the playpen in bedroom but he can crawl out now. I will do the baby gate. Do I wait til he stops freaking before time out starts? I really appreciate this -


No.. The time out is not a punishment. It is his time to get his tantrum under control.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> No.. The time out is not a punishment. It is his time to get his tantrum under control.


All right - digging out my old gate. Wish me luck!
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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Make sure to keep us posted on how the counseling goes. You said you were going? Is this family counseling? I can't remember.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Make sure to keep us posted on how the counseling goes. You said you were going? Is this family counseling? I can't remember.


It is IC for H to deal with childhood trauma but the plan is to evolve it to family counseling including 19 and 15 year old when he is ready. Speech therapy starts on the 7th of June - so we'll see if some frustration releases with ability to communicate better. I have never been at wit's end with a child before. When he spit at me I instinctively raised my hand to slap his face. I stopped and didn't do it but it scared the hell out of me as I'm not a spanker or hitter. I was very close to losing control. I have gate up and I can get away from him now where he's safe and I can get my bearings. I will keep you updated for sure. Thank you.
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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Have you tried the Limit Setting book? Another good one is How to Talk so Your Kids Will Listen. 

It is the challenging kids that make us need to learn the best parenting techniques because without them, we go insane!


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Have you tried the Limit Setting book? Another good one is How to Talk so Your Kids Will Listen.
> 
> It is the challenging kids that make us need to learn the best parenting techniques because without them, we go insane!



Short trip! I will look them up for sure. Big challenge but big snuggle buuny - extremes in everything!
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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Yah you need to get your strategies rock solid. My challenge was a big snuggle bunny as well. (He is the only kid in his class still willing to hug Mom hood bye in front of the school. ) 

I would bet a dollar that if you did a little self study with the three books I am always posting, you will see real peace descend on your household. You will have tools to reduce conflict, by understanding the barriers to cooperation you did not even know you were sending!

Your son is small, so he probably has not had a chance to develop a sense of being a Bad kid. But if you can't find a good strategy and a toolbox full of good techniques, that is likley to happen. Then each time he acts out, he is only being true to himself. 

If you can get skilled then his self esteem will only get better and better. AND your easy children will benefit as well.

Good luck!


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> Am I doing this wrong? 3 years old - this scenario just happened! He is standing on chair looking out window pushing on and ripping screen. Me: please don't do that you're tearing screen. He looks at me and keeps on. Me: you can look outside just don't push on screen. He looks at me and keeps on. Me removing him from window: until you stop, you can't be at window. Then the fit starts. He screams no, tries to bite my thigh. I put him on time out steo. He keeps trying to get up. I hold him on time out step. He spits in my face. I hold him til he calms and I let him loose after 3 minutes and tell him why he was on time out. Is this right? My other two were NOT like that! I don't know where he gets the biting and spitting from. He's not in daycare.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You seriously NEED some parenting classes or something to teach you how to parent! Looks like at least one other person is giving you good leads and tips. good luck - YOUR KID NEEDS IT!


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

jimrich said:


> You seriously NEED some parenting classes or something to teach you how to parent! Looks like at least one other person is giving you good leads and tips. good luck - YOUR KID NEEDS IT!


What's your story Mr. Perfect? Asking for help is a positive step. So is willing to learn. I have successfully raised a 19 and 15 year old who are top students and kind volunteers as well as part-time employees. Different kids - different temperment. I am open to suggestions but I've seen several of your posts, 'go to parenting classes' - so in other words you don't have a clue and just throw that out there because that's all you got I guess.
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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

'go to parenting classes' 
>> Ever been to one?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

jimrich said:


> 'go to parenting classes'
> >> Ever been to one?


You're obviously a children's advocate but your delivery really sucks.
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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

I happened to be at a friends house when her 3 ½ year old son started throwing a tantrum. (My son was same age, so it was about 7 years ago.) My friend’s son started throwing a nasty tantrum over a toy. He initially threw a toy at my son’s face. When she tried to make him apologize he began screaming at her, pulled her hair, hit and kicked at her and a few other nasty tantrum behaviors. 

Her brother is actually a school psychologist (high school) and suggested she take this action. My friend calmly picked up her tolder son, walked down the hallway, remaining calm while he hit and pulled her hair the entire way. Without hesitating, she walked over to the shower, turned on the water (obviously cold) and put him in, clothes and all. His fit immediately stop. She never once yelled at him. Although he was soaking wet, she held him close while she picked him up out of the shower. She explained to him she was sorry she had to put him in a cold shower and the reason she had done so was because his actions were physically hurting others and they needed to stop immediately. He never had a nasty tantrum like that again. He is about 10 years old now and is actually a good kid.

I know some of you parents will think that was very mean or almost abusive of her to do. However, she was also becoming extremely worried he might cause serious harm to another toddler due to his tendency scratch and throw things at their faces.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore said:


> I happened to be at a friends house when her 3 ½ year old son started throwing a tantrum. (My son was same age, so it was about 7 years ago.) My friend’s son started throwing a nasty tantrum over a toy. He initially threw a toy at my son’s face. When she tried to make him apologize he began screaming at her, pulled her hair, hit and kicked at her and a few other nasty tantrum behaviors.
> 
> Her brother is actually a school psychologist (high school) and suggested she take this action. My friend calmly picked up her tolder son, walked down the hallway, remaining calm while he hit and pulled her hair the entire way. Without hesitating, she walked over to the shower, turned on the water (obviously cold) and put him in, clothes and all. His fit immediately stop. She never once yelled at him. Although he was soaking wet, she held him close while she picked him up out of the shower. She explained to him she was sorry she had to put him in a cold shower and the reason she had done so was because his actions were physically hurting others and they needed to stop immediately. He never had a nasty tantrum like that again. He is about 10 years old now and is actually a good kid.
> 
> I know some of you parents will think that was very mean or almost abusive of her to do. However, she was also becoming extremely worried he might cause serious harm to another toddler due to his tendency scratch and throw things at their faces.


Bet she got his attention! There was a lady on Dr. Phil who used the cold shower but she left him in close to 10 minutes. I don't know how I feel about that. Better than screaming or hitting that's for sure. Speech therapy tomorrow - hopefully that reduces some of his aggression and frustration.
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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

Surprisingly, my friend remained calm the entire time he was throwing this fit. She did not leave him in the shower long at all. She was very motherly and loving while taking him out and immediately began changing his clothes. 

He had been to daycare some and possibly where he picked up that behavior. She and the rest of her family are not physically aggressive like that at all.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore said:


> Surprisingly, my friend remained calm the entire time he was throwing this fit. She did not leave him in the shower long at all. She was very motherly and loving while taking him out and immediately began changing his clothes.
> 
> He had been to daycare some and possibly where he picked up that behavior. She and the rest of her family are not physically aggressive like that at all.


The lady on Dr. Phil ridiculed and screamed at the poor kid. That was heartbreaking. Calmly is a different story - not sure if I could, but your friend obviously had success. Some kids temperment... He's an extreme kid. He's also very loving to his baby brother - just hates the word no.
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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> The lady on Dr. Phil ridiculed and screamed at the poor kid. That was heartbreaking. Calmly is a different story - not sure if I could, but your friend obviously had success. Some kids temperment... He's an extreme kid. He's also very loving to his baby brother - just hates the word no.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Ok, so I Googled story of the lady on Dr. Phil who put her child in the shower. If it is the same lady you are referring to, there was a video where she puts hot sauce in child’s mouth first before making him take a cold shower. That lady on Dr. Phil was mean and being a bully to that poor little boy. Video made me want to beat that lady with the hot sauce bottle.

I definitely need to clarify that my friend’s incident was not like that. He was so busy pulling her hair that he didn’t even realize he was in the shower until the cold water hit him. His screaming fit stopped, he was silent for a split second, then his cry changed to more of a ‘I need you’ cry and she immediately took him out. He was hugging her as she took him from the shower vs. the hitting and pulling of her hair which he had been doing just a few short seconds prior to that.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore said:


> Ok, so I Googled story of the lady on Dr. Phil who put her child in the shower. If it is the same lady you are referring to, there was a video where she puts hot sauce in child’s mouth first before making him take a cold shower. That lady on Dr. Phil was mean and being a bully to that poor little boy. Video made me want to beat that lady with the hot sauce bottle.
> 
> I definitely need to clarify that my friend’s incident was not like that. He was so busy pulling her hair that he didn’t even realize he was in the shower until the cold water hit him. His screaming fit stopped, he was silent for a split second, then his cry changed to more of a ‘I need you’ cry and she immediately took him out. He was hugging her as she took him from the shower vs. the hitting and pulling of her hair which he had been doing just a few short seconds prior to that.



I wasn't comparing the two. And ya - that's the lady - with the really bad hair! I wasn't under impression that your friend did it that way.
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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

jimrich said:


> You seriously NEED some parenting classes or something to teach you how to parent! Looks like at least one other person is giving you good leads and tips. good luck - YOUR KID NEEDS IT!


Wasn't THAT helpful toward someone who is actively studying exactly that.

Golfergirl this comes super highly recommended

Save $250 (72%) on our Exclusive Home Program — Parenting On Track


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Wasn't THAT helpful toward someone who is actively studying exactly that.
> 
> Golfergirl this comes super highly recommended
> 
> Save $250 (72%) on our Exclusive Home Program — Parenting On Track


Thank you! We did our first speech therapy today and it went well. He LOVED the therapist. She has good tips on things to work on between appointments. Our little guy has great focus and attention span so that will help him. I am hopeful with this and the recommended books.
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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Nice! Keep us posted.


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