# Need advice, husband has a new female friend



## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

I hope I am posting in the right place, I have never started a post here before. I apologize if it isn't the right place 

I need some advice. My husband and I have been together for 13 years, married for 7. The last year or so have been really rough. I recently had to take a really extended stay back home due to health issues with my mom. He came to visit twice in that time period but we were apart for a while. That made things worse and I feel as if my marriage is in serious trouble. We both do.

Unfortunately what has put flames on the fire for me is that since we have had some issues in the marriage I have been feeling extremely insecure in it and trying my hardest to work on things. Him...not so much. In fact he has made a new "friend" at work. A female one. I have never heard of her, he has never mentioned her before. I used his phone since mine is not working and saw texts from her. I asked him he said it was a friend. Then I see that the other day he deleted texts from her. Obviously so I wouldn't see. In the midst of that discussion/argument he admitted she is attractive and that if he was single he would do something about it. Then he tells me the texts that he deleted were her asking him if he was going bowling for the work fundraiser since if he was going she would go too. They have had lunch outside of work but he claims it was with 2 other people. Unfortunately my husband does not see anything wrong with this. Thinks I am being unreasonable and crazy. He twists it around onto me and deflects deflects deflects. I don't think that is a good thing to be doing in a healthy marriage, let alone one in the midst of a crisis. There is so much more but I have already typed a novel. I just need to know if I am being irrational or if I have ever right to be upset.

Sorry if this is jumbled my mind is all over the place right now.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

You can ask a moderator to move this post to Coping with Infidelity if it makes you feel more comfortable.

I believe your husband might be in the beginning stages of an Emotional Affair (EA). During this time, he will probably deny anything is wrong with his friendship with the other woman.

This is in no way, shape or form healthy, specially since he thinks you are being unreasonable and crazy.
I suggest you have a calm converstation with him, tell me the reason it bothers you that he has this female friend who he has admitted to being attractive and also admitted that he would definitely pursue the relationship if he was single.

ALso, if you think it would be helpful. Find out the definition of an Emotional Affair and show it to your husband. He may not realize he setting himself and your marriage for failure if he continues with his behavior.

Finally, have you considered counseling? 
Good luck


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## marshmallow (Oct 15, 2013)

ne9907 said:


> You can ask a moderator to move this post to Coping with Infidelity if it makes you feel more comfortable.
> 
> I believe your husband might be in the beginning stages of an Emotional Affair (EA). During this time, he will probably deny anything is wrong with his friendship with the other woman.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

So he would be fine with you having lunch with some young man, texting your male friend and doing things with this friend without him there? 

I do not think so. Ask him if he is okay with you going swimming with the local college swim team, but he can't come.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

As the other poster said, your H is having an EA.

He thinks your marriage is in trouble, yet he is spending time with a woman that is good looking, flirting with him and if he was single, he would do something about it.

He is deflecting because he is enjoying the emotional high he is getting from this and doesn't want to admit that he has crossed the line, because then he would have to stop.

You need to put your foot down and demand he stops all contact with this woman. He may need to get another job. This will lead to a full on physical affair (PA) if things continue.

I am truly sorry.......


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

Thank you for all your responses. I am pretty sure I knew all of this even if I didn't want to admit it. I did "try" to talk to him about it. I even explained that even if it was not a physical thing nor an emotional thing yet, it was and is still inappropriate behaviour. he was still just defensive angry and defelcting. It really is pointless at this point. He has checked out so much in this marriage that it really only makes it worse. There is so much more wrong with us right now that this whole new thing is not surprising or the worst....sadly.

I guess I am literally at the point of figuring out whether or not I want to continue to try to make it work. If his attitude about this, everything else and his behaviour lately is even worth fighting for. I believe I am still in love with the man he used to be and just now getting to know the man he has become.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Get the book "Not just Friends", and both of you should read it. Try to bring it up in a non-judgemental way, and see where things go from there.

C


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

This may already be a PA. Have divorce papers served even if you don't follow through. I have been through this and it's HIGHLY disrespectful.

People at his work should know too. Expose this woman.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What kind of phone does he have? There are ways to download even the deleted texts from most cell phones.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Please read this thread:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

makelle817 said:


> He has checked out so much in this marriage that it really only makes it worse. There is so much more wrong with us right now that this whole new thing is not surprising or the worst....sadly.


Tell him you're sorry he chose his new little girlfriend over you as you walk out the door. "no, there's too much water over the dam to fix things. Sorry it had to end this way. I'll send for the rest of my stuff."

That will get his attention. Men need a kick to the gut. It's not the girlfriend problem that needs to be knocked into him. It's the "so much more wrong with us" that needs to be addressed.

And read up on the 180.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

PBear said:


> Get the book "Not just Friends", and both of you should read it. Try to bring it up in a non-judgemental way, and see where things go from there.
> 
> C


:iagree: Can't emphasize the importance of this book enough. Check out any number of threads in the Coping with Infidelity section for stories that started out like yours. I hope you can turn things around.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

When you saw the first bunch of texts, did you actually read the content of the messages? Or did you just see that there were texts, but you don't know what they talked about? I think it's important to know just where his friendship with the attractive woman is right now. 

If it's just friendly banter back and forth, then implementing the 180 or filing for divorce would be too harsh. It's too bad you confronted him right away before finding out more. Try to look at his cell phone records and find out just how many calls and texts. You can go online and find out that information. Look at his emails, facebook, etc.

At the very least, both you and your husband have to read "Not Just Friends" by Shirly Glass. Unless it's already gone physical....then the only reading he needs to do is the divorce papers. But first find out what's going on and do it quietly, without him knowing.


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## Haru2013 (Oct 23, 2013)

> In the midst of that discussion/argument he admitted she is attractive and that if he was single he would do something about it. Then he tells me the texts that he deleted were her asking him if he was going bowling for the work fundraiser since if he was going she would go too. They have had lunch outside of work but he claims it was with 2 other people.


It's so terrible to hear, ... she's attractive and so on, the above, .... frankly, he appears to me he's in love with this woman whether there is pysical intimacy or not. 

I have no idea whether there is a kid or no kids at all between you and your husband, however you need to think about kids who must be more than anything else between you, both. 

Talk calmly about your hurtful feelings when things a bit calm down, like during watching TV and other things he's doing after the work. 

If his response is not lucid enough on this issue, then you might need some professional help to sort things out. Please do not rush trying to end the marriage, because you never know the next guy is worth more than the current guy, your husband.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

makelle817 said:


> They have had lunch outside of work but he claims it was with 2 other people. Unfortunately my husband does not see anything wrong with this. Thinks I am being unreasonable and crazy. He twists it around onto me and deflects deflects deflects. I don't think that is a good thing to be doing in a healthy marriage, let alone one in the midst of a crisis. There is so much more but I have already typed a novel. *I just need to know if I am being irrational or if I have ever right to be upset.*
> 
> Sorry if this is jumbled my mind is all over the place right now.


Makelle,
The answer is a resounding NO.
You have every right to be very upset. 
He went before a witness and promised to love only you whilst forsaking all others, remember those vows?
Your husband will try to tell you that you are controlling and that your being insecure doesn't make you appealing or " look sexy " to him.

Do not buy any of it. He's trying to eat his cake and have it at the same time. 
Chances are that if this ends up in a physical affair [ sex] he would also blame you for pushing him away into her arms.

You need to lay down the rules and put your foot down on this emotional affair.

Demand that he looks for a new job or get a job transfer away from her.
That is your right as his wife.


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## Eden1973 (Sep 9, 2013)

" I recently had to take a really extended stay back home due to health issues with my mom. He came to visit twice in that time period but we were apart for a while."

Hey OP, can you give a bit more detail on this. How long where u two apart? Did you both mutually agree on this decision? How often did you two interact during this time? Are you two back living together now? 

You mentioned being insecure? Why are you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

Again, thank you so much for everyone's responses.

I have already been to the courthouse and gotten the paperwork for a divorce. Turns out it is not that complicated since we do not have children and I don't want anything from him. Not the house or even half of it. Nothing.

It may seem drastic to some, but it seems that this is the only direction I can go while still keeping my dignity and any form of self esteem. It has also been a long time coming. This latest BS is just the final push I needed. 

We had so much against us when we met. Initially it worked for us, now it works against us. I was living in vancouver Canada and he was in south florida when we met. We are also from two completely different cultures and quality of lives. I ended up quitting my job and leaving everything behind to be with him, without hesitation, which I think was my first mistake. I left everything familiar and a family I am extremely close to to be with him. I went from not having to worry about money to living at his brothers with nothing but a futon and struggling pay cheque to pay cheque. For the year I could not work while waiting for paperwork to be done. Then it was pretty much impossible to find a decent job. I didn't mind though. He/us was worth it. I was willing to do anything for him. I slapped a smile on my face and did what I could to help and tried to not let any of that bother me. I had a hard time meeting new people. it is extremely difficult to make friends when not meeting them through mutual friends, work or some form of schooling. His social life was and is completely based around his family. He has only (6)brothers and only one has a wife or serious girlfriend (who I did become friends with) There was no buddies with wives who I could meet or connect with. As I said before his culture is very different from mine so it was also a case of nobody having interests similar to mine (besides him) At first I was okay. I was young and in love and we could make it through ANYTHING, right? Then we tried to have children and were not successful. I have had 3 miscarriages, the last one being extremely scary and traumatic. I have not been ready to try again. In between all of that I became depressed. I felt worthless and pathetic. When I would go back home to visit I would feel wonderful and my old self again, but as soon as I got on that plane I felt the weight come back on me. I still wanted it though. I thought things would get better. We both did. The other hard part is that I turned into a very sensitive person. Really emotional. It is kind of expected. I was depressed, lonely and feeling so lost. My husband is not the most sensitive. He is strong and sturdy in many ways but he is not sensitive and has a hard time sharing emotion. This combined with my neediness at the time was like a wedge getting bigger and bigger. things just got completely messed up. We fought all the time and my husbands fighting style is very verbally abusive. It made things even worse. I still tried to hang on to the man I knew before and the woman I knew before, not these new ones we had become.

about two years ago I was back home visiting and worked helping my dad out for a while. I used to work for him as well. I remembered how amazing it was to feel productive and doing a job I love as well as getting fantastic pay. When I got on the plane to go home to my husband I cried the entire 5 hours. I missed him for sure, but I knew what an emotional misery I was going back to. My father seeing this offered me a job as well as my husband. After my two best friends saw/heard me like that, their husbands also offered my husband a job. I and most of my family/friends were worried about my mental health and thought it was maybe time for my H to try living in Canada for a while. It would not only improve our lives financially but I was falling apart at the seems and I thought he would jump at the chance to better our lives but also give me a chance to really thrive both emotionally and professionally. It turned into a fight from hell from then to now to even get him to agree. A year ago I had to go home to be with my mother while she had a bunch of surgeries. It was then that I decided I was moving back regardless of whether he was coming or not. I was not going to sacrifice everything anymore for someone who was not even willing to try it for me. I told him that and we separated. Not legally but I said I was staying up there and he refused to consider moving. I stayed where I was. I left it alone and finally called him and asked for something legal. I did not want to live in limbo anymore. He balked and decided he wanted to make it work. He would move. And we would work on everything. I came back to Florida under the impression that he had done as much soul searching and growing as I had. That we would take 6 months to to sell the house, pack everything up, spend time with his family and then be on our way. That is was we agreed upon. I flew back with such high hopes. I was ecstatic. The man I married had decided to make a return. Instead I came home to someone who had not grown at all and seemed to be sabotaging everything including the relationship. We had not seen eachother let alone been intimate in while. We tried to make love twice but he could not get aroused. I tried not to read into it and instead try to talk about it. He told me that he needs more sexually. That I am boring in bed and that he needs to be visually stimulated and that I am too dominant in the bedroom. WTF?? I was confused since any trips to sex shops or anything remotely fun in the bedroom had been my doing...BUT I was trying to grow and be an understanding person. So I thought maybe me being in pajama pants and t shirts all the time is not the best. I AM some what of a bossy person, docile I am not. So I went out and bought some new sleep wear and lingerie and tried to be less dominant. It kind of worked. We had sex, good sex, but all that he had said and the fact that he blamed me entirely for it kept playing in my head. Then I found the texts, found out he had made no strides in getting ready to move, and everything starting to make sense and fall into place.

It is over. If I stay in this marriage the way that it is it will destroy me. I will have no self esteem or mind. I will lose it all.

I sat there last night ready to break into his email, facebook and go over his phone with a fine tooth comb and I stopped and asked myself why. I don't need to know more. I don't want to know more. I am sure there is, but I no longer care. Regardless of whatever I would find, there is plenty of reason to walk now. And all that me finding more will do is give me more need for therapy to recover from this marriage. Instead I turned of the laptop and started packing.

Sorry for the epic post. I wanted everyone to really get the situation as well as get it all out for me.


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## Eden1973 (Sep 9, 2013)

Hooray for you!!! I'm not one to bark up the divorce tree but you appear clear & that's what matters. I wish you the best & hope you go & find the type of relationship you desire. Given all you've said, don't look back. Don't stay on this rollercoaster. Get healthy & be happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

I am sorry for your situation, but I do wish you the best of luck in building your life back up. Keep us posted on your progress.


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## Kaci (Mar 11, 2013)

Sorry you are going through this. Keep us posted and we're here for you!


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## never was (Oct 28, 2013)

1. Ask him if he honestly still loves you, and not like a relative. If he answers yes, that's a great start.

2. Does he care enough about your relationship, because you do, to work together, to stay together for all the right reasons.

3. Maybe the most important step................Let him vent his emotional frustrations on what he feels the problems are and ask him if he can explain what he feels his responsibilities are. He might very well tick you off during this. If he does, please try and not show it. Don't try to fix anything or ask any questions regarding what he shares with you. Just listen. He's telling you his feelings. If you love and care for him, now's the time to tell him this. Tell him your sorry for your part in whatever you did or didn't do that led to this point in your marriage even if you cant think of anything you did or didn't do. Only you can answer that. Think about what he's confiding in you and find the agreeable answer to the problems. Don't give up, Its there. You will have plenty of time to share your concerns if he hasn't ask you already. 

Every person is different in personality and character. Some spouses take the easy way out. They just don't care anymore. I am a victim of this....twice. I seriously doubt I will ever marry again. I married twice for life and I'm 0 for 2. I would be happy with some friends. Honest, loyal good friends. I wish you the best and hope everything works out : )


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## never was (Oct 28, 2013)

Guess I'm a little to late with my post. Stay strong!!!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

makelle817 said:


> *I ended up quitting my job and leaving everything behind to be with him, without hesitation, which I think was my first mistake.* I left everything familiar and a family I am extremely close to to be with him. I went from not having to worry about money to living at his brothers with nothing but a futon and struggling pay cheque to pay cheque.



Yup ,
BIG mistake.
It's a dynamic i have seen quite a few times before.
I haven't read all of your other posts, but did you two meet online?
I ask this because in each of the other cases I 've known like yours, they initially met online, migrated down here to the Caribbean and then trouble started.
And yes, all of the cases were women leaving everything behind, coming here to meet men.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Absolutely NO. You are NOT being irrational and have EVERY right to be upset.

This is not on. Your husband needs to choose now - his "friendship" or his marriage. It's that simple.

If he chooses the marriage he needs to find another job. This may mean that you're the breadwinner for a time, but if it saves your marriage it will be worth it.

As Carribean Man said, demanding the above is your right as his wife.


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## Haru2013 (Oct 23, 2013)

> It may seem drastic to some, but it seems that this is the only direction I can go while still keeping my dignity and any form of self esteem. It has also been a long time coming. This latest BS is just the final push I needed.


 I totally agree with you, .... keep dignity and self-esteem, particularly you sound under age 40 years old. In order to move to the next step, you certainly need those important factors to cope with bad experience with your husband who appears to me 'won't change' style. Rather, he's starting to look for another person to fill in his happiness. You're right about divorce, seeing he has no effort to solve the problem and improve the marriage. 

Be careful and make sure NOT miss him after the divorce, because sounds like you still have some sort of loving feelings towards your husband, seeing you had a good sex with him even difficulty of the marriage. 

It's sad, ... but you still young and attractive person to pursue another, wonderful life you deserve. Before that, try to get a good counseler who listens and guide you to a brand new happy life. 

Good Luck to you!


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

So, a kind of update....

I bought a plane ticket for the 22nd, started packing and purging everything. I know it may seem sudden to some but it was/is a long time coming. I felt we had hit a roadblock that was not able to be moved. H seemed not interested in trying or working on things. I couldn't stay with things the way they were.

So anyways, yesterday he came home from work and pretty much sat me down and told me to ask him anything I needed to know and he would try his best to answer honestly and constructively. I asked what I needed and he answered. He got more indepth into the texting and who exactly this woman was. his answers were completely satisfying in that I do not believe there is anything happening, but that I do still think this woman has come onto him and he has enjoyed the flirting so he allowed some lines to be crossed. He acknowledged that and apologized. Said he will not speak to her unless it is work related, anything else he will ignore and let this woman know that there are boundaries he needs to keep out of love and respect for his wife. He also pulled out a piece of paper with names of therapists in the area that he had looked up while at work. He asked if I would be willing to try therapy.

13 years. I have been with this man for 13 years and I feel as if I owe it to not only him and my marriage but also myself to try and see if we can be happy again. I don't want to "make it work" I want it to just work. Like it used to. My heart is telling me YES! lets try whatever we can, but my head is just so tired and so sad and so.....scared. Scared that I will once again open up, allow myself to trust in him and us and then be completely devastated all over again. I honestly don't know what to do.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Marriage takes work. You can't avoid that. With him, or with someone else. So stop wishing it would 'just work'.

Did you get Not Just Friends and read it? Even if you are not staying, do so. It is THE best book about EA's ever written. And your husband should read it too.

If you decide to stay, there is NO way that it will work out between the two of you unless your husband becomes completely and totally 100% transparent. This is where you are going to wish you HAD snooped. He's had time to delete stuff now, and you may never know the extent of his relationship with this woman. But from here on out he has to give you complete and total access to his phone, emails, computer, bank accounts, everything. And he MUST do so with a smile on his face. From here till eternity. This does not have a time limit.

If you end up in counseling and your counselor poo poos the transparency, get another counselor STAT. Again, read the book. 

And your husband must either quit his job or the OW must. There is absolutely no way your marriage will survive him continuing to work with her.

When you present all this to your husband, his reaction will tell you whether there's hope or not. If he balks at ANY of it, proceed with D. He should be falling over himself to prove to you he means what he says right now. His actions will speak for him. As will his attitude. If he keeps throwing it in your face that he can't quit his job or give you his passwords, that's because he isn't truly sorry.

Good luck with your decision.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Yes, give it another try.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm a great believer in marriage and second chances...but don't let him do this to you again.

You know the signs now...trust but verify.

See a counsellor read everything you can on infidelity. The Shirley Glass book mentioned above by Hope is THE book to read on this.

Goodluck!


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Being strong willed might just pull this marriage back. I agree with trust but verify. Here is why: she is all fun and games. To get your marriage back on track will take effort and at times be very painful. His desire to feel better will make her compelling to him.

Total transparency. No deleted texts. No alternate chat or text programs that cant be tracked. All passwords shared. If you both have FB or the like and you cant live without it, only keep a shared acct.

How does he intend to enforce boundaries at work? If there are activities outside of work, are you allowed to attend? If not, will he continue to go?


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

He has agreed to total transparency in all ways. I had his facebook password and email password before. He also had mine. Not for any "trust" issues we just needed to access each others accounts from time to time. I also knew the code for his phone. There never was any keeping me locked out of anything. I have no issues with that. I have also checked the history on his lap top and there are no "new" sites or emails he is going to.

As far as boundaries at work, she does not work in his department, but he is willing to change shifts so as to not see her at all at work. As far as activities outside of work I am invited to all of them (he usually never goes anyways) but if there is something, than either we go together or he doesn't go.


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## Eden1973 (Sep 9, 2013)

I wish you the best. I believe that you are at the point where things really have to change or you walk. Given all you wrote in your "epic" post, you have places to start in counseling. 

List out the issues & be willing to confront & face them head on. It can & probably will be hard but not impossible if both are committed to working on it. I pray it's a valid attempt on his part & no more time is wasted.

Keep us up to date . BEST WISHES!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You sound hopelessly insecure and irrational to me, OP. He has a friend at work, has had a few work-event related texts, and had lunch with her and others, and you're ready to divorce him? Or is there something else I'm missing, other than you've got problems in your marriage unrelated to this friend?

I've had a good (divorced) female friend (very attractive) at work for the past 8 years. For a few years we shared an office, so got to know everything about each other's lives. We sometimes went to lunch, sometimes had drinks after work, even went for walks on the beach at lunch, and it was all completely platonic and above board. Sometimes she'd join my wife and me for dinner. She loaned me her car once when mine was in the shop, and has done other things a friend will do for a friend - and vice versa. If I'd been single, I might have seen if we could be more than friends - but I wasn't.

Two weeks ago we attended her wedding to a great guy we've gotten to know over the past two years, and they are becoming our best friends locally. Six years ago she was the witness at our wedding.

Many people can handle opposite sex friends and still observe boundaries. Are you saying your husband can't or didn't?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> You sound hopelessly insecure and irrational to me, OP. He has a friend at work, has had a few work-event related texts, and had lunch with her and others, and you're ready to divorce him? Or is there something else I'm missing, other than you've got problems in your marriage unrelated to this friend?
> 
> I've had a good (divorced) female friend (very attractive) at work for the past 8 years. For a few years we shared an office, so got to know everything about each other's lives. We sometimes went to lunch, sometimes had drinks after work, even went for walks on the beach at lunch, and it was all completely platonic and above board. Sometimes she'd join my wife and me for dinner. She loaned me her car once when mine was in the shop, and has done other things a friend will do for a friend - and vice versa. If I'd been single, I might have seen if we could be more than friends - but I wasn't.
> 
> ...


Maybe you didn't read this:

".._Unfortunately what has put flames on the fire for me is that since we have had some issues in the marriage I have been feeling extremely insecure in it and trying my hardest to work on things. Him...not so much. In fact he has made a new "friend" at work. A female one. I have never heard of her, he has never mentioned her before.* I used his phone since mine is not working and saw texts from her. I asked him he said it was a friend. Then I see that the other day he deleted texts from her. Obviously so I wouldn't see. In the midst of that discussion/argument he admitted she is attractive and that if he was single he would do something about it. *Then he tells me the texts that he deleted were her asking him if he was going bowling for the work fundraiser since if he was going she would go too. They have had lunch outside of work but he claims it was with 2 other people. *Unfortunately my husband does not see anything wrong with this. Thinks I am being unreasonable and crazy. He twists it around onto me and deflects deflects deflects. I don't think that is a good thing to be doing in a healthy marriage, let alone one in the midst of a crisis. *.._"

And you're saying absolutely nothing is wrong in his attitude towards her and that she's the insecure one ?
Hers is not an open marriage, she doesn't want another woman in her marriage , and she has every right not to ,especially when there are so many other parallel issues causing stress in the relationship.

She gave up her life , left her family , migrated to another country to marry this man, and you are saying that she's jealous and controlling for asking him to help her feel more secure in the marriage at a crucial time like this?
Even if the marriage was strong and healthy, she's well within her right to ask him to get rid of that woman friend.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I read her post, including your bolded emphasis, and see nothing in what's stated that warrants her extreme response. It isn't necessary to have an open relationship to allow opposite sex friends, and while I'm in one, I never made an approach to my work friend. Is her husband actually untrustworthy, or is she simply untrusting?

I will agree that he could make some attempt to relieve her fears, in hopes of fixing the marriage, but he should not be required to give up a platonic-only friend completely because of her insecurities. There will always be another insecurity if that's the issue, and he will never be able to have friends of the opposite sex if that's true. *If* it's above board, he _should _do what he can to help things, without caving to irrational demands.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

She simply wants her husband's UNDIVIDED ATTENTION at this time, which he refused initially to give her,and tried to gaslight her, until she gave him an ultimatum.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> You sound hopelessly insecure and irrational to me, OP. He has a friend at work, has had a few work-event related texts, and had lunch with her and others, and you're ready to divorce him? Or is there something else I'm missing, other than you've got problems in your marriage unrelated to this friend?
> 
> I've had a good (divorced) female friend (very attractive) at work for the past 8 years. For a few years we shared an office, so got to know everything about each other's lives. We sometimes went to lunch, sometimes had drinks after work, even went for walks on the beach at lunch, and it was all completely platonic and above board. Sometimes she'd join my wife and me for dinner. She loaned me her car once when mine was in the shop, and has done other things a friend will do for a friend - and vice versa. If I'd been single, I might have seen if we could be more than friends - but I wasn't.
> 
> ...


I am very intrigued by this MarriedbutHappy. I am a firm believer that a person should be happy with her/himself instead of seeking their happiness from their spouses/significant others.
I am also a believer that most male and female friendships do not end well.

My ex had a good female coworker friend. I saw nothing wrong at all with that. Until almost two years down the road that she totally ignored my ex (best friend) and looked at me with disgust. I asked ex the meaning and he said "she disliked me because she thought my ex could do so much better than me"

trust in male-female friendship until proven wrong? 
Trust blindy, or not trust at all?
What made this woman friends of yours more reliable and trustful than a male counterpart?

Feel free to PM, I really am intrigued. 

(I apologize for hijacking your thread)


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> You sound hopelessly insecure and irrational to me, OP. He has a friend at work, has had a few work-event related texts, and had lunch with her and others, and you're ready to divorce him? Or is there something else I'm missing, other than you've got problems in your marriage unrelated to this friend?
> 
> I've had a good (divorced) female friend (very attractive) at work for the past 8 years. For a few years we shared an office, so got to know everything about each other's lives. We sometimes went to lunch, sometimes had drinks after work, even went for walks on the beach at lunch, and it was all completely platonic and above board. Sometimes she'd join my wife and me for dinner. She loaned me her car once when mine was in the shop, and has done other things a friend will do for a friend - and vice versa. If I'd been single, I might have seen if we could be more than friends - but I wasn't.
> 
> ...



I appreciate your observation....and opinion, but it is always easy to make "observations" when you're not in the situation or only know a tiny fraction of the facts.

I admitted openly that I have been feeling insecure. I am not nor have I been more insecure than the average person in my life. Some of the reasons for my insecurity are in face my own fault, some of it is due to the collision course my marriage has been in.

If you did read my original post I am sure you also read where I said this was not even the largest problem in my marriage. That there is a lot more going on and has been going on. I did not elaborate on all of that since this thread was about my husband having a new female friend. Not all the other issues. The continuing talk on divorce is not simply because he has a female friend. Contrary to what you got out of my OP our marriage was not wonderful and healthy then this happened and I am leaving. 

I stress the part where I said new female friend. My husband has friends of the opposite sex, as do I. I am fine with that. Most of them are people we knew before meeting each other. The others are ones we met while together but they also befriended each of us and there was no sneaking around. I am glad for you that you have/had such a close friend at work. Even better the fact that your wife knew her, and was also close enough to her to have those moments and memories with her. I don't/didn't. That's what I have the issues with. The fact that this friend was a "secret" friend. The fact he deleted texts from her, and his responses. The fact that I have never met her, nor even heard of her. The way he got completely defensive when I mentioned her. Lets not bypass the fact that my husband has since recognized that his behaviour was not appropriate and that he allowed boundaries to be crossed that shouldn't have as well as admitted that if the situation was reversed he would be completely suspicious and angry as well.

So, while I appreciate your opinion and observation I think you are completely off base.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

OP,
Why do I feel you are being sucked into a black hole? Your husband agreed to the Canadian move, to a new properous life for both of you; but, that agreement turned out to be nothing but a lie. Now you are swayed by the promise of a few visits to a counselor and "answers" your husband finally gave you.

I wish you well. Good luck. I think you will need it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I'd VAR his car and monitor his phone statement for deleted text just in case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

This has nothing to do with the female friend at work. It's not all about her husband either.

Get some IC and fix yourself first.


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## talk123 (Apr 15, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> You sound hopelessly insecure and irrational to me, OP. He has a friend at work, has had a few work-event related texts, and had lunch with her and others, and you're ready to divorce him? Or is there something else I'm missing, other than you've got problems in your marriage unrelated to this friend?
> 
> I've had a good (divorced) female friend (very attractive) at work for the past 8 years. For a few years we shared an office, so got to know everything about each other's lives. We sometimes went to lunch, sometimes had drinks after work, even went for walks on the beach at lunch, and it was all completely platonic and above board. Sometimes she'd join my wife and me for dinner. She loaned me her car once when mine was in the shop, and has done other things a friend will do for a friend - and vice versa. If I'd been single, I might have seen if we could be more than friends - but I wasn't.
> 
> ...



To me #1 difference in Married but Happy's friend and makelle817 H's "friend" at work is secrecy. " I have never heard of her, he has never mentioned her before. "

"Then I see that the other day he deleted texts from her. Obviously so I wouldn't see. "

" Then he tells me the texts that he deleted were her asking him if he was going bowling for the work fundraiser since if he was going she would go too." If completely platonic why would he need to delete the above text? So none of this sounds like the transparent relationship Married but Happy's friend had.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

What she did is called "nipping it in the bud," kuddos to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I am surprised at the ppl saying she has a problem. 

I have had many male co-worker friends over the years. My husband was aware of our social activities. He was occasionally able to join us, though most were lunches which he could not attend. 

The only time I was out alone with a fellow after our other colleagues left my husband was upset. He was not aware that i was going to be out alone with another man. Imagine how he would have felt if I did not tell him about it and he found out in his own? 

What if i refused to see his side and told him it was nothing and I had no intention of not going out with my buds from work and if this guy and i happen to end up alone again i was not going to leave just because my husband was jealous/upset. 

Nothing was going on. There were no secrets. And yet I understood why my husband was upset and agreed not to do something like that again. 

I don't think my husband was unreasonably jealous or controlling. In fact, there are other times I can think of where I felt his lack of concern was weird. He probably chose the wrong guy to be worried about, but he was standing up for our marriage and that is cool 

So if you guys are saying you would tell your spouse that you have no intentions of halting these outings because you think they are paranoid or jealous, more power to ya. But I read that as being more about your issues with being controlled than about your partner's "jealousy".

If a partner denied you any friends it would be different. This isn't what happened here. Secrecy. Lying. Deleting. The girl was fishing and the married man was not shutting it down. That is called preserving opportunity for something to happen even if it isn't happening now.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

makelle817 said:


> I appreciate your observation....and opinion, but it is always easy to make "observations" when you're not in the situation or only know a tiny fraction of the facts.
> 
> I admitted openly that I have been feeling insecure. I am not nor have I been more insecure than the average person in my life. Some of the reasons for my insecurity are in face my own fault, some of it is due to the collision course my marriage has been in.
> 
> ...


Check out Married but Happy's relationship status in his public profile for some context surrounding his views.


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

Another sort of update....and many more thanks for everyones thoughts and advice 


So, tomorrow we have our first marriage counselling app. We have two initial app set up for two different therapists. We'll go to each app and then decide if we are comfortable with them to continue.

I would be lying if I didn't say that this does fill me with a lot of hope. I don't WANT to walk away, but I also don't want to be in a marriage that is this much work. To touch down on what someone else said...I am totally aware that marriage is hard work and it takes a lot of care. I know it doesn't magically just work, but it is not supposed to feel unnatural in making it work. That's what I had meant. My husband and I have hit a seriously deep rut. We have not been connected emotionally in the truest way in a long time. I want the want to happen naturally. I don't want to feel forced, or him feel forced to want it. I wish it would be back the way it was, when neither one of us could imagine life without the other and that regardless of the arguments we were always connected. Always in this together. Lately it seems when one is in, the other is out, and vice versa.

As hard as it has been to deal with everything lately, I do feel it was something that had to happen and maybe is a blessing in disguise. My husband is not the most emotional person. Passionate, yes, but he has a hard time with feelings and expressing them. A lot of men do. I am total opposite. I can not only verbally express myself but I am also really emotional and totally in touch with expressing all sorts of emotions. So, while I have been able to talk about things, cry about things blah blah blah...he is a keeper inner and let it fester. 

To back up a bit....I was gone for a year, I left in August of 2012 for what was supposed to be a normal length visit. Life happened and I had to post pone my return twice. My mother and my father who are both on the olderish side as far as ages of my peers parents... both had health issues. My mothers was far more serious and I basically stayed to nurse her and help her. My husband while not happy supported this. Regardless of all of that though we were apart for a year and sadly in that time I did completely take him for granted. I can admit that. I had already started taking him for granted before that. Hence the separation while I was gone.

He had a whole crap load of feelings bottled up, I was pretty much ignoring him and his needs and soley focused on myself and what I wanted/needed. Then I get back in Sept and the s**t hits the fan. After sitting in it for a while I am not in the least bit surprised by anything that has happened.

Now, I'm not condoning his stupid judgement and how he handled his "feelings." He was an idiot. BUT I do fully and completely believe that he has not literally cheated. Neither physically or emotionally. I think he was treading on a very thin line, and made really risky stupid decisions, but he did not "cheat".

Now, why I think all of this is a good thing? It forced me, as well as him to seriously face our issues and problems. Both individually and as a couple. We could no longer sweep it under the rug for another day. We had to lay it all out and actually deal with everything. It made him open up, and made me actually listen. It showed us both the seriousness of our problems and that if we didn't deal with it we could lose each other and this marriage. We have talked and talked and talked, cried and hugged and had moments where we needed to take a breather, BUT we are fully communicating and being completely vulnerable.

I love him. I have loved him for 13 years. He loves me, I have no doubts about that. We both want this to work and now we are finally at the point where both of us are willing to do whatever it takes to try to get back to where we were, or even better than before.

I don't know what is going to happen. But right now we are both focused on loving each other and trying to repair the damage we both let go on for way too long.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit (Sep 14, 2013)

makelle817 said:


> Another sort of update....and many more thanks for everyones thoughts and advice
> 
> 
> So, tomorrow we have our first marriage counselling app. We have two initial app set up for two different therapists. We'll go to each app and then decide if we are comfortable with them to continue.
> ...


I'm so glad things are working out, I went through the same situation, she tells me I'm the crazy one, insecure, etc....... and is her life, so I'm taking thing into my own hands and working on me........lets see what happen.... Keep up the faith.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

No offense to those in open marriages who want to give advice, but please understand that those who want monogamous relationships are going to disagree vigorously with you!

As someone getting over my H's EA, I feel for the OP. Yes, we had some issues before the EA but he plowed ahead with his inappropriate friendship all on his own. As I have explained to him many times since DDay, I am more hurt from the deception. My H has always been very friendly with women, and a little flirty. I always accepted and allowed it because he had always maintained appropriate boundaries. 

H O W E V E R, once he overstepped those boundaries, he lost my trust and my acceptance of these friendships. I no longer want him to have close friends of the opposite sex besides ones who have stood the test of time and are friends of both of us, as a couple. Sorry, but if a middle aged man feels he needs to have lengthy phone calls, private meals or walks on the beach with someone other than his wife...that is now a deal-breaker for me and we can go our separate ways. Luckily, my H agrees with me and we are moving forward. We are BOTH working on being better to each other, but the EA was all him and him alone...and there are consequences for that.

Good luck to you! Fighting for the marriage will be hard, but worth it if you can make it work.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Seems to me that those in open marriages might just feel a little superior to those of us who believe in monogamy. And not mentioning it in a post where you proclaim that the OP is the one with the problem is a part of that arrogance. 

Back to the topic. I think it would be good for you to explore your belief that marriage should always come naturally and not require effort.it probably goes hand in hand with your independence.

Feelings come and go so its commitment that hold a relationship together while the two people bounce around in their feelings. Love without commitment probably isn't truly love.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Good luck with your appointments today!


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## Eden1973 (Sep 9, 2013)

Thanks for the update & you both are trying & that's all you can do. You are putting forth it seems an open & honest effort & that's what matters. Hey & if for whatever reason something happens or old patterns won't die at least you can walk away knowing you really tried & owned your part in this marriage.

Good luck on your appointments & I wishing you the very, very best !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Seems to me that those in open marriages might just feel a little superior to those of us who believe in monogamy. And not mentioning it in a post where you proclaim that the OP is the one with the problem is a part of that arrogance.


:iagree:

And I've seen it here on TAM a couple of times recently and even in the past.
I have no problem with those who chose an open marriage , but at least they should disclose that to the OP, when they're giving advice in these type of situations.
Not everyone wants an open marriage nor believes in it.

The dynamics of an open marriage is entirely different to the monogamous construct ,it's a different value system.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Seems to me that those in open marriages might just feel a little superior to those of us who believe in monogamy. And not mentioning it in a post where you proclaim that the OP is the one with the problem is a part of that arrogance.


I guess we'll disagree, and no, I don't feel superior. I was in a truly monogamous relationship for over 25 years, so I know that way of thinking and living. Been there, done that, believe me. We have also had significant periods of happy monogamy in this marriage, although our mindset isn't monogamous overall.

However, even during those extensive monogamous years, having opposite sex friends was not an issue or a problem, and the behavior the OP described would have merited a yawn at most. Given the information in the OP's first post, there was nothing there to indicate any substantive reason to think other than what I though, or respond other than I responded. I stand by that.

_Subsequently_, the OP revealed that there were other, and more significant problems, and more details about the stated issue. I am in agreement now that there is very likely a deeper, more serious problem, and that she has good reason to be upset. I'm glad that she is taking appropriate steps to deal with this.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I wonder if having OS friends matters of your general philosophy is non- monogamous. You could end your monogamous time with one of them. No big deal. So I'm not sure it is comparable. 
The OP took the bull by the horns and he seems receptive. She got there in time. I've read too many stories where the BS didn't find out about the other person until the bond was too strong to break. It drags out, goes underground, the EA turns into a PA because the new level of secrecy pulls them even closer.

Look, there are friends where the girl really is one of the guys. Doesn't mean she isn't attractive. Just means she doesn't see herself as a woman when she is with the guys. They share interests or work. It seems good at first but since guys want someone to play with as well as have sex with, her view of herself doesn't matter. The guy still gets feelings for her. 

Close male-female friends generally end up with some form of more than just friends feelings from one side or the other. That's experience as one of the guys. It doesn't take but a weak moment to do something you can never take back. 

I've slept with two best male buds and regretted one but not the other. I didn't want a relationship like that with the one i didn't regret. But something about it was ok from an emotional standpoint. I can't explain it. 

It can happen so easily when there is no intention. The girl was interested. It takes even less to go there when she looks pretty much like easy pickings. 

There are statistics that say a lot of happily married men cheat. So problems or no problems doesn't indicate safety. 

Monogamous people need to guard themselves and their marriage/spouse. Sometimes it is necessary to do it for your spouse when their head isn't on straight. You can't force anything. But you can make what you see clear and indicate your boundaries. The spouse on thin ice will be grateful when they best some distance from the other person and put that energy back into their marriage. 

Storm weathered. Crisis averted. 

Gotta trust your spidey senses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

These posts were so long ago. It is like a different lifetime. I finally found the strength and courage to come back and do a final update.

Everything I knew then or he told me then were complete lies. I feel so dumb and so naive.

I found out the truth that same year (2013) about a month after my last post. it is only recently that I have found my way above water so to speak.

In the end it was not the "friend" from work who he was having an affair with. It was an ex girlfriend. It began in October 2012, (I only know that date from our bank statements but I know they had to of been in contact previously. I just don't know exactly when.) I found out on Dec 2 2013, and it ended completely (only because of me) in May 2014.


Turns out he had a Facebook account that I did not have access to. He never used email or his phone. Just facebook to communicate with her. 

I tried for so long to make it work, or re build. There was just too much deceit. He basically was a complete narcissistic a**hole for most of the "healing" period. Especially initially. It was a total nightmare. I often found myself sitting there completely unable to even recognize this man sitting in front of me and saying the things he was saying. It was the most humiliating and degrading time of my life...so far. And the worst part? I stayed. I stayed through it all. Tried desperately to fix it. Became pathetic and completely not who I am.

I am back in Canada now. Been here since March. I am making moves to completely stop contact and finally legally separate. He now tries really hard to "do better" "knows he has a lot to make up for" blah blah blah. But it basically only lasts until I dare say anything about the affair or ask him anything. Then he is back to being this entitled angry selfish jerk with a mean mouth. 

I seriously don't know why I can't just say f**k you and leave.


So...yes. All was not okay and I became exactly who I never used to understand. It's funny...you truly don't know how you will react until it actually happens.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

thanks for the update after so long! 

it's always good to hear from people that have moved on from destructive, abusive relationships, when there is no repairing them and yours sounds like one.
don't take his overtures to be occasionally nice, 'nice' his way back into your life.
some people unfortunately are so deeply flawed they are just not marriage material.

just out of curiousity and nothing more, how did you meet him originally?

it's too bad it took so long (13 years) to realize who he really was. but you're young and have another whole life ahead of you.

and good luck to you and keep us updated.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

makelle817 said:


> These posts were so long ago. It is like a different lifetime. I finally found the strength and courage to come back and do a final update.
> 
> Everything I knew then or he told me then were complete lies. I feel so dumb and so naive.
> 
> ...



It takes us this long isnt it .

Your dates are almost similar to mine .

I am done n divorced . N happier . No more lies n deceit .


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Thank you for the update. Hope your head clears.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

makelle817 said:


> I tried for so long to make it work, or re build. There was just too much deceit. He basically was a complete narcissistic a**hole for most of the "healing" period.
> 
> 
> It was a total nightmare. I often found myself sitting there completely unable to even recognize this man sitting in front of me and saying the things he said .
> ...


I understand . Been through that . You see clearer out of the fog .


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> thanks for the update after so long!
> 
> it's always good to hear from people that have moved on from destructive, abusive relationships, when there is no repairing them and yours sounds like one.
> don't take his overtures to be occasionally nice, 'nice' his way back into your life.
> ...


Thanx for your words 

I met him online. Funnily enough, not on a dating website, but completely randomly. I am not sure if that has affected my opinion on online dating or not!


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

tripad said:


> It takes us this long isnt it .
> 
> Your dates are almost similar to mine .
> 
> I am done n divorced . N happier . No more lies n deceit .


 So happy you are through it and happier! I hope I can find myself there eventually too.


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

In the midst of moving on...it's a lot harder than I ever thought it would be. I was so judgemental to others in the past, in what I knew were terrible and hopeless relationships. 


It really did take that long because he was nothing like this in the past. Absolutely nothing like this. I think that's why I stayed. I was literally in shock. He had completely turned into someone I didn't know. At times I thought he was even suffering from an undiagnosed mental illness because it was so out of character for him. He was such a wonderful man up until this point. I was completely and totally fooled for so long. Looking back now, hindsight is always 20/20 but there was nothing in his behaviour previously that told me he would turn out this bad or make those choices. Obviously I can see bits of **** moves when we fought, or glimpses of selfishness, but nothing overtly obvious to me or anyone else. I as well as everyone who knew us, including his family were completely shocked by it all. I do not blame myself at all for him choosing to cheat. But I also know there was a lot that happened between us for a long time before it reached the point it had gotten too. I was not a very nice person during that time or a wife in many ways. I myself was selfish and a real *****. I was going through some things and had started to feel resentful towards him and take it all out on him. Before that he basically had me on a pedestal and treated me amazing. I believe we both reached our boiling point and he basically completely turned against me in every single way. In his own words "I stopped giving a f**k about you or us since you obviously didn't" I see now it was a slow leak in our marriage, and when I left for Canada for that long period it exploded. I have forgiven him for the actual cheating, and have healed and come to terms with that, well maybe not completely. ..but I am on my way. It is the aftermath and behaviours I am unable to move past. He...we were so unconnected and broken and he had turned so far away and against me that it was pretty much impossible for him to feel the feelings he needed to feel in order to heal us. We had some terrible terrible rows that only added to the distance. Plus his pride and ego, as well as his new selfish mindset...the damage that ended us really happened after the cheating. 

We did improve on the connection side of things to a degree, but his views and thoughts on everything still got in the way. He was still very much about himself and what he needed, wanted, and was comfortable with. He often said things that were so insensitive and completely selfish. If I said I didn't trust him, he said that was my problem, I shouldn't be with him then. Or if I tried again to talk about certain things that I had hoped he had changed views on (to do with the affair or just in general) he would become angry, defensive and really rude. Never kind, or sensitive. In his good moments he would say he knew he had a lot to make up for, and had let me down, and all the other things...but that would only last until I tried to talk about anything to do with the affair or us. Then he was back to a**hole and completely cold. Any and all healing was done basically with him in mind. What he liked, needed, wanted and was comfortable with. He would actually say things like "this does nothing for me" and refuse. It was mind boggling and completely backwards to any advice I had gotten. 

It became clear that there was no way I would ever be able to heal from this, nor be one of those couples that makes it through infidelity. He was not a willing participant and going on two years of trying was enough. 


Sorry for the novel. There is just so much I need to express after keeping everything bottled up for so long. I didn't say much to friends and family as I was trying to fix it and didn't want to cause more damage and judgement. I just want to get it all out!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

If you're such a b!tch to deal with why does he want you back?

You're right that it will always be about him and his wants and needs. You don't want to live like that. Let his ex have the prize that is him.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Makelle

Sure sounds like my ex . My counselor said he may have personality disorder . So i read up on narcissistic personality disorder and it descibes it .

I too hung on to the man i thought i married and is still inside this "stranger" . Trying n hoping . 

I read up and realised like you and me , we married a fake . They pretended to be someone we would like and treated us like we were the "prize" . Once married , shortly hell starts and you wondered what had happened .

When you give up at times , he gives you a glimpse of the old guy by treating you nice .

My ex even said he had sex just to make me happy . I later read that NPD spouse will think sex and helping with home n kids is "doing you a big favour ". 

I am glad i am out .


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

it's good that you are introspective and trying to own up to your own mistakes and flaws.

keep sifting and going through your thoughts. not to beat yourself up, but to learn about yourself.
your strengths, weaknesses, temptations, hopes and aspirations. you will become a better, stronger person, and someday, the right person will come along and
you will be ready for a forever relationship.

i count my blessings every day for the good and the bad and everything iv'e gone through.


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

tripad said:


> Makelle
> 
> Sure sounds like my ex . My counselor said he may have personality disorder . So i read up on narcissistic personality disorder and it descibes it .
> 
> ...


I've read up on NPD as well. It is an awful situation to be in with someone like that. At times I wondered about my ex. At the same time though, I think he just turned into a bitter resentful man who already had a hard time expressing himself or finding his sensitive side. After all that happened he just became worse. I did honest work on myself and got help. He thought he was, but he wasn't. I don't see him as having NPD, but I do see a man who is emotionally immature, and due to some aspects of his culture as well as family dynamics ...see's cheating or infidelity a lot different than I did/do. He also has huge problems with owning and working on flaws and mistakes. As well as humility and "falling on one's sword" so to speak. I also feel his culture and family dynamics plays a role in that. I had a lot of patience at first, but began to recognize there was a lot more wrong than could be fixed.

I am so glad you're out too!


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## makelle817 (Oct 27, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> it's good that you are introspective and trying to own up to your own mistakes and flaws.
> 
> keep sifting and going through your thoughts. not to beat yourself up, but to learn about yourself.
> your strengths, weaknesses, temptations, hopes and aspirations. you will become a better, stronger person, and someday, the right person will come along and
> ...


Thank you for such great advice. I have been seeing a counselor and have done much self reflection. He and I were together for a lot of years and a lot of things and factors played a role in all that happened. I will never condone what he chose to do, but I do need to own my part in the marriage as well. It's really hard to do sometimes though! Anger, blame, and bitterness is so much easier...but it also started to suck the life out of me!


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## Coachme (Sep 9, 2015)

The best way to make a mark would be to visit your husband at his work. Mark your territory, surprise him and bake him his favourite cookies and make a trip into his work to give them to him. Meet him at his work at lunchtime. Introduce yourself to all his work colleagues. Praise him in front of his colleagues, about how great he is at being your husband and how much you admire him and love him.


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