# starting to worry



## hfd273

Need some advice if I should be worrying about this trip my wife wants to take with a couple friends the trip is two weeks away and she went for a botox injection she also got a brazlian wax and is going for a full body spray tan. We have been married for 26 years and have to grown children . should be saying something about this trip or just keep an eye on things.


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## Hope1964

Are the friends male or female?

Does she display any other red flag behaviour?

If this is something she's been planning with girlfriends for a while, that she's been looking forward to, and your relationship is otherwise solid, this in and of itself is not cause for alarm.


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## TAMAT

hfd,

Has she ever had an affair?

Is the waxing and tanning normal or ever occasional for her.

Is her cell phone kept under lock and key.

Tamat


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## jsmart

We definitely need more info. How's your marriage, affectionate with loving sex or distant with occasional duty sex? Has there been a history of cheating on either side? 

Getting all hot looking for a trip with the girls sounds very dangerous. Personally, I don't believe married couples should take separate vacations. That goes for both sexes.


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## Marc878

You don't have enough info to determine anything. All could be normal.

Why else do you ask?


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## Lila

Is the trip to a tropical location?


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## Marduk

I've never heard of a wife getting a Brazilian before a girl's trip and having that be a good thing.


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## Tron

marduk said:


> I've never heard of a wife getting a Brazilian before a girl's trip and having that be a good thing.


Botox and tan, not so bad I guess. 

Brazilian...that one jumped out at me too.


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## 225985

"she went for a botox injection she also got a brazlian wax and is going for a full body spray tan."

Did she tell you she is/was doing these or did you find out other ways? She did not hide it, right?

When she told you she got a brazlian, did you say "cool, i will enjoy that" or "why did you get that?" or did you just say nothing?

Are they going to a nude beach?

Best case your wife just wants to feel sexy and feel good about her appearance. We hope.


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## Lila

marduk said:


> I've never heard of a wife getting a Brazilian before a girl's trip and having that be a good thing.


I do it all of the time before heading on a beach vacation with and without my husband. Nothing nefarious about it.


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## Marduk

Tron said:


> Botox and tan, not so bad I guess.
> 
> Brazilian...that one jumped out at me too.


The other two could be to show off to her fiends and be the hot one. 

A Brazilian is to turn someone else on. And show off. 

I think. Maybe some women will chime in with a different perspective. 

But... Ouchie. And will be growing back in when she comes home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk

Lila said:


> I do it all of the time before heading on a beach vacation with and without my husband. Nothing nefarious about it.


Ok. Why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349

It is called a "bikini wax" FFS, have you seen the size of a Brazilian style bikini? Having your bush hang out of your bathing suit like sideburns is just not a good look.


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## Hope1964

I can see getting a Brazilian before heading out with the girls to a beach, just because there's a chance of being naked where they might see me. Waxing the bikini line might not cut it for some swim suits, or she might just want to look 'cool'. The 'spiffing up' of her appearance isn't a bad sign, in and of itself, especially if this is something she's been planning with the girls for a while and is a special vacation.


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## rzmpf

The location they want to go to would be an important piece of information. Also if that is normal behaviour for her or is she doing that just for this occasion.


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## Hope1964

kristin2349 said:


> It is called a "bikini wax" FFS, have you seen the size of a Brazilian style bikini? Having your bush hang out of your bathing suit like sideburns is just not a good look.


You said it much more eloquently than I did :x


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## kristin2349

Lila said:


> I do it all of the time before heading on a beach vacation with and without my husband. Nothing nefarious about it.



I do too @Lila and now that I am single, (and not currently looking to get laid) I still do.

It is basic upkeep I do for myself, so I know I look and feel my best.


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## Lila

marduk said:


> Ok. Why?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because of this. .....




kristin2349 said:


> It is called a "bikini wax" FFS, have you seen the size of a Brazilian style bikini? Having your bush hang out of your bathing suit like sideburns is just not a good look.


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## Lila

kristin2349 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do it all of the time before heading on a beach vacation with and without my husband. Nothing nefarious about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do too @Lila and now that I am single, (and not currently looking to get laid) I still do.
> 
> It is basic upkeep I do for myself, so I know I look and feel my best.
Click to expand...

I was wondering if I was the lone wolf on that activity, lol. You said it way better than I could have without using the word "pubes"


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## drifter777

This behavior is over-the-top for a married, forty-something woman. A pre-tan is one thing but the botox and waxing? These are massive red flags. I think you should confront her about this and tell her point-blank that you think she is planning on having sex with another man/men on this vacation. If it were me I would tell her if she goes on the vacation I will file for divorce and not be there when you return. If she goes anyway you have your answer.


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## SunCMars

Lila said:


> Is the trip to a tropical location?


I thought the same thing. Going to the beach in a small bathing suit. She does not want any curlies to poke out of the hipster hugger.

The all over tan? Have you ever been to a beach and seen the white whales....that is hurtful...let us say white mackerel snappers. The ones with European lineage. Being as white as a corpse is not attractive.

That being said...put your detective hat on Quick. Read her messages and do whatever it takes to get some of the Birds pre-flight checklist information. Her intentions are sitting somewhere in virtual space or at the tip of her tongue. If you are paranoid like most of us on this Forum you need to install VARs. One in her car and one in the place where she normally sits and talks on the phone in the house or apartment.


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## pineapple

kristin2349 said:


> It is called a "bikini wax" FFS, have you seen the size of a Brazilian style bikini? Having your bush hang out of your bathing suit like sideburns is just not a good look.


Too funny. I almost spit my water out.


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## SunCMars

The Botox usage. 

Women want to look as young as possible. They want to look younger than their friends, even their beach bunny friends.

Her trip may be for fun. No infidelity is planned or anticipated. 

I made it to Life Scout before getting kicked out for pranks. The Boy Scout Motto is be prepared. Do that and take no chances with your most valuable possession....can't say that....your most valuable heartthrob.


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## Starstarfish

As a white mackerel snapper, I apologize on behalf of my people. Some of us can't help it. I was programmed with a blotchy graphics cards that displays only two settings - albino and lobster. 

I've complained, but the manufacturer implies in product guide it's not a flaw but a design feature, something about "his image" or something.


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## LosingHim

I'd love to get Botox. I have forehead wrinkles that are much too large for a 37 year old. I'm very self conscious of them. 

Spray tan? Meh.....I think it looks orange-y. But if I was pale and going on a girls vacation where I knew a lot of pictures would be taken, I may consider it. I loathe being pale. Were going to Vegas and I fully plan on tanning beforehand. I feel better in tan skin.

Brazilian? I wish I had the balls to get it done. I HATE shaving down there. It's the biggest pain in the a$$ ever. I just don't have the guts to show some woman my private arena and have her pour wax on it. Plus if it's a beach vacation, that would be a total plus. If I shave "down there" on consecutive days I end up with horrible rash and if I'm going to be on a beach Id have to shave every day to wear a bathing suit because of how fast all of my body hair grows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hfd273

not a beach trip more of a wine country trip.


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## hfd273

The friend she is going with just got divorced, really no other red flags to speak she doesn't hide her phone or anything things around the house seem fine to me but its the waxing that got me she has never done that before and I really cant see a reason for other then to show it off and as I said its not a beach trip.


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## LosingHim

If there are no other issues or red flags, I wouldn't panic.

I'll be 38 in August and I'm starting to feel like I'm looking older. Skin is sagging where it shouldn't, wrinkles are popping up where they never used to be, my skin isn't as clear and smooth. Even my fake boobs could use a lift. 

Women don't take well to aging. At least most don't. I know I don't like it. Wish I would've embraced the beauty of my youth more than I did. 

It's most likely just that she wants to FEEL good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349

hfd273 said:


> not a beach trip more of a wine country trip.


Wine country is a couples trip, or a real girls trip. It isn't a trip I'd go on to cruise for men.


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## Marduk

kristin2349 said:


> It is called a "bikini wax" FFS, have you seen the size of a Brazilian style bikini? Having your bush hang out of your bathing suit like sideburns is just not a good look.


A Brazilian is all off, right? 

I thought a bikini wax was trimming down the sides.

But I dunno, I'm a dude. If the girls say it's no biggie, trust them. 

I was just curious why you'd go all off if nobody was going to see it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

I don't understand the following:


Why is there a need to go away on vacation without my husband of 26 years. 
Why the need for a Brazilian wax to go to wine country.
Why the need for all over spray tan.
Why go away with a divorced friend.

Other than that, everything is OK.


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## kristin2349

marduk said:


> A Brazilian is all off, right?
> 
> I thought a bikini wax was trimming down the sides.
> 
> But I dunno, I'm a dude. If the girls say it's no biggie, trust them.
> 
> I was just curious why you'd go all off if nobody was going to see it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



A Brazilian is "all off" but generally if you are going to go to the trouble of waxing "all off" is just easier and faster. Otherwise it is like shaping a freaking topiary bush. I'm not a fan of any body hair, I've been lasered within an inch of my life, but I stopped short of getting my bikini area fully lasered off. I had her leave a landing strip, if I don't trim it it ends up looking like a mohawk>


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## chillymorn

ask if you can tag along......just up and say hey I was thinking I would just come along I love wine and I'd like to test out the wax job before it grow in all stubble like Ernest Borgnine's face. Just asked off for the day and it was no problem. 

then sit back and watch her actions . if she all pi$$ed and crappy then say well maybe I'll surprise you guys and catch up with you later. I can"t wait this is going to be sooo cool spending some time together with you and your friend.

red flags all over the place.


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## kristin2349

Wine country may not be a beach vacation, but all of those wine country hotels and B&B's have hot tubs and pools.


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## The Middleman

OliviaG said:


> 1) Just like guys sometimes go on fishing trips and such together (no women), girls sometimes like to go on trips together (no men).
> 
> 2) When going on vacation, you don't know for sure exactly what you'll be doing. You want to be ready for anything. If you're away with girls there's a good chance you may be doing something girly like a spa treatment together. Spa treatments often mean getting naked in front of other women. You want to be well groomed.
> 
> 3) Your girlfriend and you have decided that this is the year you want to try it? It's spring and you haven't had a chance to get any natural tan yet?
> 
> 4) Just because your friend gets divorced doesn't mean she's no longer your friend. You don't shun her.


Maybe ... but it won't be happening in my marriage.


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## chillymorn

The Middleman said:


> Maybe ... but it won't be happening in my marriage.


AMEN


maybe he will come back and post about it after she comes home acting strange with the famous ILYBNILWY.

if it walks like a duck then its usually a skunk.


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## The Middleman

OliviaG said:


> No, outside in the real world this is a regular occurrence and a non-issue.


OK.


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## Sports Fan

All this effort for a wine retreat? The Botox and tanning i could live with but brazillian for a wine retreat would have me concerned.

VAR her car immediately. All should be revealed as to the nature of this trip.

Also a recently divorced single friend can spell trouble for your marriage. They will encourage your wife to do things you would not approve of and help her cover it up.

A wine retreat is an intimate setting. At face value it would appear your wife is preparing as such. The VAR should clarify who she intends to go on this trip with


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## chillymorn

OliviaG said:


> No, outside in the real world this is a regular occurrence and a non-issue.


:surprise: the real world is full of ulgy $hit.

But ignorance is bliss!


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## Imovedforthis

See I was more concerned with the Botox... 
The tanning and Brazilian are pretty normal to have done before a vacation. 
Especially if you are flying, don't want to take razors and then have to buy some. Ya no. 
But the Botox is what's standing out to me as odd. 

It's like she's trying to impress someone with all that. Tanning is a little weird for a wine retreat but maybe she just wants to look her best around her friends. Girls can get competitive and no matter where they end up going will go all out knowing that others will be taking pics.

But the Botox and tanning seem to be a stretch going to a wine retreat with just girlfriends. 
Is there a hot tub they are using or what? Who is gonna even see her in a bathing suit? 
If yes to the above maybe she's feeling a bit insecure to be around the other girls in a hot tub or pool. 

I've known a few female meet ups and some of them went overboard on their looks weeks before trying to impress all the others and make sure they look hot for all their pics they will be posting. 

Hey- speaking of pics- maybe you could have her keep texting you and sending you some so you can kind of see what's going on??? I would lol 


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## Divinely Favored

She has to be ready for anything like Olivia said. She needs to be waxed in case she needs to entertain the guy's buddy that her divorced intoxicated friend wants to hook up with. She is her wing woman ya know. She would not be caught dead getting cozy in one of those hot tubs with her bush out of control. I think she wants to look sexy while they are out cursing for guys. 

I would be worried you will eventually hear, "I did not mean for it to go that far" 

Yeah they do or they would not have traveled that path from the start. I would be very leery of this vacation with divorced friend. 

But me and my wife are best friends and would not go on vacation away from each other like this. If this was with family and she was not getting waxed....ok. Especially the way she intends for it to be seen or it would not be done.


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## Slow Hand

The truth is, it may be all to do about nothing, but the real question is. How is the temperature of the marriage right now? Cold, lukewarm, hot? I'm not sure OP responded to that yet. Another question that I didn't see a reply to was, how did the OP find out about the Brazilian? Did your wife tell you about it?

If your marriage is cold and you haven't had sex in a while or if you only get it a couple of times a month? I'd worry, there's trouble brewing. On the other hand, if your marriage is going great and your wife and you love each other and show it every day? Well then, there's probably nothing to worry about.

If it were me, I would definitely lay down the boundaries, she's with a recently divorced friend who likely won't have any. At the very least, let her know your concern in a positive manner.


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## kristin2349

Divinely Favored said:


> She has to be ready for anything like Olivia said. She needs to be waxed in case she needs to entertain the guy's buddy that her divorced intoxicated friend wants to hook up with. She is her wing woman ya know. She would not be caught dead getting cozy in one of those hot tubs with her bush out of control. I think she wants to look sexy while they are out cursing for guys.
> 
> I would be worried you will eventually hear, "I did not mean for it to go that far"
> 
> Yeah they do or they would not have traveled that path from the start. *I would be very leery of this vacation with divorced friend.*
> 
> But me and my wife are best friends and would not go on vacation away from each other like this. If this was with family and she was not getting waxed....ok. Especially the way she intends for it to be seen or it would not be done.



Jeez, I am the new "divorced" friend in my group....Because my pasty white now Ex husband who never groomed below the belt without being reminded to had an affair with a 29 year old tramp who worked for him. He didn't need a "guys trip" to accomplish this. 

I get Botox, Brazilians and Beach vacations with my girlfriends...I got the shore house in the divorce:wink2:


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## Slow Hand

kristin2349 said:


> Jeez, I am the new "divorced" friend in my group....Because my pasty white now Ex husband who never groomed below the belt without being reminded to had an affair with a 29 year old tramp who worked for him. He didn't need a "guys trip" to accomplish this.
> 
> I get Botox, Brazilians and Beach vacations with my girlfriends...I got the shore house in the divorce:wink2:


This is why the temperature of the marriage is important, if it's cold, I guarantee you she will have less inhibitions when she's with her divorced friend, who just met a real cute guy, who just happens to have a buddy tagging along to keep his new girlfriends friend company. Oh yeah, lets not forget about the wine. :surprise:

I really hope it's nothing, but it has obviously bothered the OP enough to post here, we just don't have enough to go on at the moment.


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## chillymorn

OliviaG said:


> No, not my world...!
> 
> If you've been burned before, I get why you'd be suspicious. But I think that kind of experience can skew your perspective a bit. I understand why, but I don't think it's all that conducive to being happy in your next relationship.


Like I said the world is full of ulgy.
And ignorance is bliss.

These are red flags period.I think it foolish not to look at these and not be suspicious.

That's my opinion. He can do whatever he wants with it.

Teachers having sex with students (male and female)
Hiliary Clinton not in jàil.
Trump 
The erosion of our freedoms
Cancer/disease
Political correctness
Demonization of chtistanity
Muslims ...
religion that kills people who won,t convert is ulgy
War
Corrupt politicians at all levels
Pedifiles
Child abuse
Cheaters
Murderers
Obama care
Unfair taxes

I could go on and on and on

It not a world void of goodness but there is equal ulgy :soapbox:


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## MRR

chillymorn said:


> AMEN
> 
> 
> maybe he will come back and post about it after she comes home acting strange with the famous ILYBNILWY.
> 
> if it walks like a duck then its usually a skunk.


interesting. i got the ILYBINILWY about 3 months after my ex starting spending a lot of time with a gf who was separated and going through divorce. oh, coincidentally, out of the blue she started....you guessed it-- getting the brazilian wax around the same time.


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## adriana

Divinely Favored said:


> She has to be ready for anything like Olivia said. She needs to be waxed in case she needs to entertain the guy's buddy that her divorced intoxicated friend wants to hook up with. She is her wing woman ya know. She would not be caught dead getting cozy in one of those hot tubs with her bush out of control. I think she wants to look sexy while they are out cursing for guys.



Oh, come on! This is patently absurd.... she got the Brazilian because she likes Neymar.


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## 6301

While she's gone, you get a Brazilian and when she comes home and see it and asks why you got one, then turn the tables and ask her why she got one? Eye of an eye. pube for a pube.

Seriously if you saw her new hairless private area then to me she isn't hiding it from you so I wouldn't worry too much. Be completely different if she hid it from you, then you might have to be worried.


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## 86857

I suppose you could always ask her, in a lighthearted tone, "Hey honey. What's with the Brazilian after all these years."
Reasonable question if she hasn't had one in 26 years.


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## SunnyT

How do you hide a lack of pubes? 

Do married people not have sex? Or get dressed in front of each other? Or be naked when showering?


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## Nucking Futs

6301 said:


> While she's gone, you get a Brazilian and when she comes home and see it and asks why you got one, then turn the tables and ask her why she got one? Eye of an eye. pube for a pube.
> 
> Seriously if you saw her new hairless private area then to me she isn't hiding it from you so I wouldn't worry too much. Be completely different if she hid it from you, then you might have to be worried.


Wait, do guys get waxed like that? I think if someone put hot wax on my balls I'd tell them what they want to know.


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## WorkingWife

marduk said:


> I've never heard of a wife getting a Brazilian before a girl's trip and having that be a good thing.


Is a "brazilian" where ALL hair is removed? If so:

1. OUCH.
2. I agree - why would she do that for a trip? Who will see that?

If it's just the bikini line, I still think "ouch" but it makes sense if she'll be in a (hopefully tasteful) bathing suit.


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## Chaparral

LosingHim said:


> I'd love to get Botox. I have forehead wrinkles that are much too large for a 37 year old. I'm very self conscious of them.
> 
> Spray tan? Meh.....I think it looks orange-y. But if I was pale and going on a girls vacation where I knew a lot of pictures would be taken, I may consider it. I loathe being pale. Were going to Vegas and I fully plan on tanning beforehand. I feel better in tan skin.
> 
> Brazilian? I wish I had the balls to get it done. I HATE shaving down there. It's the biggest pain in the a$$ ever. I just don't have the guts to show some woman my private arena and have her pour wax on it. Plus if it's a beach vacation, that would be a total plus. If I shave "down there" on consecutive days I end up with horrible rash and if I'm going to be on a beach Id have to shave every day to wear a bathing suit because of how fast all of my body hair grows.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Try shaving with the grain and then apply cortisone cream. Woks for us0


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## Personal

drifter777 said:


> This behavior is over-the-top for a married, forty-something woman. A pre-tan is one thing but the botox and waxing? These are massive red flags. I think you should confront her about this and tell her point-blank that you think she is planning on having sex with another man/men on this vacation. If it were me I would tell her if she goes on the vacation I will file for divorce and not be there when you return. If she goes anyway you have your answer.


On the other hand @hfd273 could simply enjoy what his wife has done, tell her she looks great and share plenty of sex with her before she goes away.

As to waxing being over the top good for her, I hope she feels good about it. I enjoy the fact that my wife who is now a little closer to 50 than 40, sometimes shaves all of her pubic hair off or gets it waxed instead.


If someone wants to cheat on you they will, if they don't they won't. It's not about you, it's about what they want to do. If someone wants to do it, it's pretty easy to do and doesn't even require a trip away to make it happen.

Putting one's foot down over a trip away will not protect you from infidelity. Threatening divorce because your partner is ageing and wishes she weren't and has done something about it before she goes on a trip with some friends. Does not make for a great relationship and will not protect you from infidelity either.


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## Slow Hand

Personal said:


> On the other hand @hfd273 could simply enjoy what his wife has done, tell her she looks great and share plenty of sex with her before she goes away.


We just don't have enough information at this time, how do you know she would like that? 


> As to waxing being over the top good for her, I hope she feels good about it. I enjoy the fact that my wife who is now a little closer to 50 than 40, sometimes shaves all of her pubic hair off or gets it waxed instead.


It's not for everyone, I don't care for it, I like nicely trimmed bush :wink2:, and my STBXW knows this. If STBXW had ever gotten one, yeah, red flags. 


> If someone wants to cheat on you they will, if they don't they won't. It's not about you, it's about what they want to do. If someone wants to do it, it's pretty easy to do and doesn't even require a trip away to make it happen.


I guess it depends on who they really are as a person. I would never cheat on my STBXW, I guarantee it. I've had ample oppurtunities, heck, a girl tried to take advantage of me when I was drunk off my ass. I still didn't cheat and told her I had a girlfriend as I wasn't married at the time, to my STBXW, but we were living together. I think for me, it's about my word, the vows I made. I will not cheat on her or date other women until we are divorced, probably even a year after the divorce, who knows, I gotta get my stuff together. Cheating is a choice, but not everyone goes that route, my gut and STBXW's behavior seems to indicate that she chose it, that's why I'm terminating this marriage. :|


> Putting one's foot down over a trip away will not protect you from infidelity. Threatening divorce because your partner is ageing and wishes she weren't and has done something about it before she goes on a trip with some friends. Does not make for a great relationship and will not protect you from infidelity either.


That's a whole lot of speculation there, I mean, we really have nothing to go on, the OP hasn't really said much.


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## Personal

Slow Hand said:


> Personal said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand @hfd273 could simply enjoy what his wife has done, tell her she looks great and share plenty of sex with her before she goes away.
> 
> 
> 
> We just don't have enough information at this time, how do you know she would like that?
Click to expand...

I don't know she would like that, for all I know she could loathe her husband to the point that physical proximity to him would make her skin crawl. Yet your red herring is entirely beside the point.

In the absence of evidence that proves infidelity @drifter777's paranoia laced recommendations are highly likely to damage or damage further @hfd273's marital relationship.

So my response which is addressed to @drifter777 tempers @drifter777's hyperbole and offers an alternative approach.



Slow Hand said:


> Personal said:
> 
> 
> 
> As to waxing being over the top good for her, I hope she feels good about it. I enjoy the fact that my wife who is now a little closer to 50 than 40, sometimes shaves all of her pubic hair off or gets it waxed instead.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not for everyone, I don't care for it, I like nicely trimmed bush :wink2:, and my STBXW knows this. If STBXW had ever gotten one, yeah, red flags.
Click to expand...

I'm happy wild, trimmed or bare, my wife didn't go bare on occasion until after she turned 40, before then bikini lined, trimmed or wild was where it was at. An ability to grow with one's partner and embrace new things without being jealous, insecure and irrationally paranoid goes a long way.



Slow Hand said:


> Personal said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone wants to cheat on you they will, if they don't they won't. It's not about you, it's about what they want to do. If someone wants to do it, it's pretty easy to do and doesn't even require a trip away to make it happen.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it depends on who they really are as a person. I would never cheat on my STBXW, I guarantee it. I've had ample oppurtunities, heck, a girl tried to take advantage of me when I was drunk off my ass. I still didn't cheat and told her I had a girlfriend as I wasn't married at the time, to my STBXW, but we were living together. I think for me, it's about my word, the vows I made. I will not cheat on her or date other women until we are divorced, probably even a year after the divorce, who knows, I gotta get my stuff together. Cheating is a choice, but not everyone goes that route, my gut and STBXW's behavior seems to indicate that she chose it, that's why I'm terminating this marriage. :|
Click to expand...

Which is why I wrote "If someone wants to cheat on you they will", it's all about intent combined with capability, absent that intent it won't happen.



Slow Hand said:


> Personal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putting one's foot down over a trip away will not protect you from infidelity. Threatening divorce because your partner is ageing and wishes she weren't and has done something about it before she goes on a trip with some friends. Does not make for a great relationship and will not protect you from infidelity either.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a whole lot of speculation there, I mean, we really have nothing to go on, the OP hasn't really said much.
Click to expand...

Actually there is no speculation at all, if @hfd273's wife has been married to him for 26 years she is evidently ageing. If someone wants to cheat on you threatening them with divorce will not guarantee fidelity whomever you are.


----------



## wmn1

hfd273 said:


> The friend she is going with just got divorced, really no other red flags to speak she doesn't hide her phone or anything things around the house seem fine to me but its the waxing that got me she has never done that before and I really cant see a reason for other then to show it off and as I said its not a beach trip.


if it's not a beach trip, then why is she changing anything ? It's not like she is going to be wearing bikinis at wineries. 

Did you ask her why ?


----------



## wmn1

Sports Fan said:


> All this effort for a wine retreat? The Botox and tanning i could live with but brazillian for a wine retreat would have me concerned.
> 
> VAR her car immediately. All should be revealed as to the nature of this trip.
> 
> Also a recently divorced single friend can spell trouble for your marriage. They will encourage your wife to do things you would not approve of and help her cover it up.
> 
> A wine retreat is an intimate setting. At face value it would appear your wife is preparing as such. The VAR should clarify who she intends to go on this trip with



I agree with this !!

Also, you could spyware her phone.

here is my concern. The divorced friend will test her boundaries.

Why the Brazilian if anyone is not going to see it

My biggest concern is the kids are out of the house and she's in her 40s. If I could get $10 for every spouse (husband or wife) who started affairing in their 40s and when the kids are gone, I would buy myself a new Harley.

Look, VAR and phone spyware. It will give you an idea of what is going on.

yes TAM can be a paranoid place but there's a reason for that and you have to give your gut feeling some credibility here.

Again, how is your overall marriage ? Has she ever cheated before ?

Who are her friends who are going on the trip ?

How long is this trip for ?


----------



## wmn1

chillymorn said:


> Like I said the world is full of ulgy.
> And ignorance is bliss.
> 
> These are red flags period.I think it foolish not to look at these and not be suspicious.
> 
> That's my opinion. He can do whatever he wants with it.
> 
> Teachers having sex with students (male and female)
> Hiliary Clinton not in jàil.
> Trump
> The erosion of our freedoms
> Cancer/disease
> Political correctness
> Demonization of chtistanity
> Muslims ...
> religion that kills people who won,t convert is ulgy
> War
> Corrupt politicians at all levels
> Pedifiles
> Child abuse
> Cheaters
> Murderers
> Obama care
> Unfair taxes
> 
> I could go on and on and on
> 
> It not a world void of goodness but there is equal ulgy :soapbox:


agreed


----------



## G.J.

hfd273 said:


> Need some advice if I should be worrying about this trip my wife wants to take with a couple friends the trip is two weeks away and she went for a botox injection she also got a brazlian wax and is going for a full body spray tan. We have been married for 26 years and have to grown children . should be saying something about this trip or just keep an eye on things.


I really don't get why any spouse would want to go away with a friend for 2 weeks on a holiday...makes no sense to me

With myself and Mrs G.J. this wouldn't even cross our minds and we have lots of great friends

Why the trip..what's behind it or isn't this the first time either has been away with out the other ?

Please don't tell me she's in her 40s


----------



## Omar174

Lila said:


> I do it all of the time before heading on a beach vacation with and without my husband. Nothing nefarious about it.





kristin2349 said:


> I do too @Lila and now that I am single, (and not currently looking to get laid) I still do.
> 
> It is basic upkeep I do for myself, so I know I look and feel my best.


My mind is officially in the gutter.


----------



## alexm

So she's taking a trip with some friends, one of whom is divorced. When one of your friends is now single, it's difficult to include them in couples activities, hence the girls getaway.

While I understand and respect those couples who don't do anything without each other, I also don't see the big deal. Many couples do things with their friends, sans spouse. Especially dudes. We've got our fishing trips, golf weekends, baseball road trips, etc.

These winery tours/weekends are, AFAIK, designed for couples and women. I can't imagine there are a whole lot of straight, single men who's idea of a fun guys weekend is a winery tour and staying at a B&B.

The only concern is the prep work she's doing for it. If botox, spray tans and Brazilian waxing are not things she does even semi-regularly, I'd be a little weirded out, too. That said, if this is her idea of pampering herself in order to enjoy a relaxing weekend with her friends, then all good.

The Brazilan wax thing, though. Perhaps OP can come back and clarify that he knows the difference between Brazilian and Bikini waxing. A few folks here apparently don't know the difference. And if you still don't, then basically a Brazilian is *everything* gone. Usually this is done for the benefit of others, as hair is removed in areas in which one has to be VERY intimate with you to even notice, and you certainly wouldn't even if you're wearing a skimpy bikini.

Anyway, I'll re-iterate - a winery tour and stay at a B&B isn't exactly the prime place to get laid, if that's anybody's goal (ie. the divorced friend). I'm sure it could happen, but it's just about the last place a single woman looking to get laid would have much success.

OP, if you're as paranoid as a few of the folks in this thread are, then perhaps it's worth looking into if they really ARE going to a winery and B&B and not using that as a ruse to spend a weekend clubbing.

I'm certainly not among those who think she's up to no good right off the bat, but if you think something's not right, find a way to confirm her whereabouts, and/or have her check in a few times over the weekend. You don't have to be sneaky about it. Nothing wrong with a spouse making sure their partner arrived safely, is having a good time, or wanting to hear how their day went.


----------



## Personal

wmn1 said:


> if it's not a beach trip, then why is she changing anything ? It's not like she is going to be wearing bikinis at wineries.
> 
> Did you ask her why ?


If away with fellow female friends, my wife relates it's not just about looking good for herself, she wants to look good to them as well.


----------



## samyeagar

If nothing else, if things go sideways, there's no question about it being premeditated. Makes it a lot easier to respond accordingly.


----------



## G.J.

alexm said:


> OP, if you're as paranoid as a few of the folks in this thread are, .


----------



## NobodySpecial

marduk said:


> A Brazilian is all off, right?
> 
> I thought a bikini wax was trimming down the sides.
> 
> But I dunno, I'm a dude. If the girls say it's no biggie, trust them.
> 
> I was just curious why you'd go all off if nobody was going to see it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I, personally, would not bother with a bikini wax without doing a Brazilian. 

Funny joke. Advisor tells George Bush that a Brazilian just died in combat. Bush, Oh God! How many is a brazillion?


----------



## G.J.




----------



## G.J.

Brazilian if she wears skimpy bottoms

Full Brazilian sometimes is 'all gone'.... there for the world to see


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nucking Futs said:


> Wait, do guys get waxed like that? I think if someone put hot wax on my balls I'd tell them what they want to know.


It's not hot.


----------



## G.J.

I suggest a full investigation tonight to see which one :wink2:


----------



## NobodySpecial

If my husband were this paranoid, I would scream. I am not personally into Botox or tanning. A tan would look ridiculous on me. But I get Brazilians all the time. And ... there was a first time "after all those years". And he did not blink an eye. If I went on a trip to wineries with my friends, my husband would be grateful that I was not asking him to go to wineries, kiss me and tell me to have fun. Geez. I wonder how many affairs are actually caused by supposed affair suppression restrictive behavior.


----------



## G.J.

NobodySpecial said:


> If my husband were this paranoid, .


All you paranoid people on this thread :crying:

:surprise:





.


----------



## 86857

NobodySpecial said:


> If my husband were this paranoid, I would scream. I am not personally into Botox or tanning. A tan would look ridiculous on me. But I get Brazilians all the time. And ... there was a first time "after all those years". And he did not blink an eye. If I went on a trip to wineries with my friends, my husband would be grateful that I was not asking him to go to wineries, kiss me and tell me to have fun. Geez. I wonder how many affairs are actually caused by supposed affair suppression restrictive behavior.


I wouldn't call OP paranoid @NobodySpecial. He just asked a simple question & almost all posters agreed they too would be asking the same question. As you said, there was a 'first time after all those years' for you getting a Brazilian. That's not OP's point. His point is why did she get it before going on holiday with some girlfriends. It's the timing. A Brazilian tends to be a 'for you and me babe' thing, not for the world at large.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

NobodySpecial said:


> If my husband were this paranoid, I would scream. I am not personally into Botox or tanning. A tan would look ridiculous on me. But I get Brazilians all the time. And ... there was a first time "after all those years". And he did not blink an eye. If I went on a trip to wineries with my friends, my husband would be grateful that I was not asking him to go to wineries, kiss me and tell me to have fun. Geez. I wonder how many affairs are actually *caused* by supposed affair suppression restrictive behavior.


"Caused by" ? That's quite a weak constitution if someone else causes you to break your wedding vows.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Rubix Cubed said:


> "Caused by" ? That's quite a weak constitution if someone else causes you to break your wedding vows.


Clearly. Let me put it another way. I wonder how many marital issues are caused by insecure partners who are cheat defensive at the expense of other useful marital behaviors.


----------



## NobodySpecial

********** said:


> I wouldn't call OP paranoid @NobodySpecial. He just asked a simple question & almost all posters agreed they too would be asking the same question. As you said, there was a 'first time after all those years' for you getting a Brazilian. That's not OP's point. His point is why did she get it before going on holiday with some girlfriends. It's the timing. A Brazilian tends to be a 'for you and me babe' thing, not for the world at large.


Meh. It's a for me thing for me. And apparently several other women on this thread. He gets to share for sure. There is nothing wrong with feeling clean and pretty. What a happy thing.


----------



## G.J.

Nucking Futs said:


> Wait, do guys get waxed like that? I think if someone put hot wax on my balls I'd tell them what they want to know.


Hot Wax ...arhhhh

No but if your wife/gf shaves you can at least do like wise...women do appreciate it..well most...its never going to win a beauty prize is it but it stops making it look like a pair of coconuts


----------



## Wolf1974

The Middleman said:


> I don't understand the following:
> 
> 
> *Why is there a need to go away on vacation without my husband of 26 years. *
> Why the need for a Brazilian wax to go to wine country.
> Why the need for all over spray tan.
> Why go away with a divorced friend.
> 
> Other than that, everything is OK.


This is where I would land as well. When married,,hell even now with a GF, we travel together. if she wanted to burn all her time on single girl trips then she should be single in my opinion.


----------



## wmn1

G.J. said:


>


yep. My thoughts exactly


----------



## TAMAT

HFD,

Do you think she is in an affair with her just divorced friend.

Tamat


----------



## wmn1

NobodySpecial said:


> If my husband were this paranoid, I would scream. I am not personally into Botox or tanning. A tan would look ridiculous on me. But I get Brazilians all the time. And ... there was a first time "after all those years". And he did not blink an eye. If I went on a trip to wineries with my friends, my husband would be grateful that I was not asking him to go to wineries, kiss me and tell me to have fun. Geez. I wonder how many affairs are actually caused by supposed affair suppression restrictive behavior.


I would hardly call being concerned about 'out of the norm' behavior paranoid.

I personally think OP's concerns are valid considering her history, his knowledge of their relationship and the fact that there is a societal trend for women in their mid 40s to cheat, just like it is for guys in their mid 50s, especially after raising kids. 

It seems to me that your attack on the OP is unnecessary. It's his marriage, he has every right to be concerned/inquire. 

And no, affairs shouldn't be created by 'suppression, restrictive behavior' (which by the way is NOT going on here. There are things called boundaries and discussing things. If someone feels 'restricted', it's called 'let's work this out'. It should never end up resulting in getting laid by another man


----------



## wmn1

TAMAT said:


> HFD,
> 
> Do you think she is in an affair with her just divorced friend.
> 
> Tamat


Interesting spin. Didn't think about that.

But my question is why did this other friend get divorced ?


----------



## TAMAT

But my question is why did this other friend get divorced ? 

Possibly because the friend was in an affair with this guys wife? While all of this is speculation there must be some basis for this anxiety on the part of the H.

Tamat


----------



## NobodySpecial

wmn1 said:


> I would hardly call being concerned about 'out of the norm' behavior paranoid.
> 
> I personally think OP's concerns are valid considering her history, his knowledge of their relationship and the fact that there is a societal trend for women in their mid 40s to cheat, just like it is for guys in their mid 50s, especially after raising kids.
> 
> It seems to me that your attack on the OP is unnecessary. It's his marriage, he has every right to be concerned/inquire.


OP I was not intending to attack you but many of your respondents. And not attack, just voice a different opinion. People tend to get pretty defensive on here. I hope you get the help you need. But focusing on beauty care would not be my first choice of concerns if I were you.


----------



## Hope1964

I love the way TAM goes sometimes. Very entertaining.


----------



## 86857

NobodySpecial said:


> If my husband were this paranoid, I would scream. I am not personally into Botox or tanning. A tan would look ridiculous on me. But I get Brazilians all the time. And ... there was a first time "after all those years". And he did not blink an eye. If I went on a trip to wineries with my friends, my husband would be grateful that I was not asking him to go to wineries, kiss me and tell me to have fun. Geez. I wonder how many affairs are actually caused by supposed affair suppression restrictive behavior.





NobodySpecial said:


> Meh. It's a for me thing for me. And apparently several other women on this thread. He gets to share for sure. There is nothing wrong with feeling clean and pretty. What a happy thing.


What were the signs of your betrayal? Or are you a WS? Or neither? 

Only asking because paying extra attention to ones appearance as OP's W is doing is undisputedly one of the big 'flags' of an A. 
BUT, it is also a sign of many other things, in my case it was turning 40. 
The first question OP was asked by posters was if there are any other signs. 

So many BS are taken by complete surprise by an A. If the cause of betrayal was that they were controlling & paranoid, WS wouldn't have much of a chance to have an A, or would have been caught very early on, heh! heh! . Of course it may be a cause in some cases. There are as many causes as affairs. In this case, I wouldn't regard OP as paranoid. If he was, he would be objecting to W going away in the first place. 

Nobody said there was anything wrong with feeling clean & pretty . And our beauty stuff is always a 'for me' thing, well, it should be. Spouse benefits from it, and others, e.g. guys watching a pretty lady walk by. But they don't admire her Brazilian. That's hubby's department which was my point.


----------



## aine

OP, why can't you ask her about the waxing, you may get an honest and perfectly reasonable explanation. If you don't have a good enough relationship to be open, then I think you have bigger problems than her tanning and waxing.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

aine said:


> OP, why can't you ask her about the waxing, you may get an honest and perfectly reasonable explanation. If you don't have a good enough relationship to be open, then I think you have bigger problems than her tanning and waxing.


 That's what I was thinking . Ask her about your concerns, non-accusingly. If she was planning on cheating and the guilt of you noticing this stuff and mentioning it doesn't stop her, you couldn't have done anything about it anyway. She may go underground with any elicit behavior (if there is any to begin with) but eventually if you monitor she'll slip up. So I'd say ask her about it.


----------



## soccermom2three

I've done all those things and I go on a girls weekend once a year. I've never had an affair. 

So none of the guys here have never gone on a golf, fishing, hunting, etc. trip without their wife? Traveling for work without the wife? Bad things can happen there too.


----------



## Herschel

soccermom2three said:


> I've done all those things and I go on a girls weekend once a year. I've never had an affair.
> 
> So none of the guys here have never gone on a golf, fishing, hunting, etc. trip without their wife? Traveling for work without the wife? Bad things can happen there too.


I usually trim my pubes into a nice heart shape before fishing weekends. You never know when there is an "Oopsies, I didn't realize you were standing on the shore Fred, as I come out of the lake after I take a nude swim." Don't want Fred to think I don't take care of myself.


----------



## Wolf1974

OliviaG said:


> If she wanted to burn "all her time". She's burning "all her time"? Should I threaten to leave my husband the next time he goes away for a golf weekend? Spending "all his time" away from me?


No clue what YOU should do. I know I wouldn't marry someone who chose to spend all their vacation away from me.


----------



## Hope1964

Wolf1974 said:


> No clue what YOU should do. I know I wouldn't marry someone who chose to spend all their vacation away from me.


We don't know if she does this all the time or not.

This poster is just sitting back right now and enjoying all the kerfuffle he's caused. We don't have enough info to know what's going on, yet people are coming on here and freaking out about everything the guy has said.

It's predictable yet still amusing


----------



## Wolf1974

soccermom2three said:


> I've done all those things and I go on a girls weekend once a year. I've never had an affair.
> 
> So none of the guys here have never gone on a golf, fishing, hunting, etc. trip without their wife? Traveling for work without the wife? Bad things can happen there too.


Traveling for work is a seperate issue. You can't always control travel for work

But in answer to the other question I have travelled without my GF before because she couldn't come but I have never planned a trip where she wasn't invited.


----------



## Wolf1974

Hope1964 said:


> We don't know if she does this all the time or not.
> 
> This poster is just sitting back right now and enjoying all the kerfuffle he's caused. We don't have enough info to know what's going on, yet people are coming on here and freaking out about everything the guy has said.
> 
> It's predictable yet still amusing


I'm not lol. I actually don't see the problem with getting a wax before a trip. My GF gets them all the time trips or not.


----------



## 86857

Herschel said:


> I usually trim my pubes into a nice heart shape before fishing weekends. You never know when there is an "Oopsies, I didn't realize you were standing on the shore Fred, as I come out of the lake after I take a nude swim." Don't want Fred to think I don't take care of myself.


@Herschel, you just made my day LOL


----------



## chillymorn

the famous TAM double standard rears its ugly head.


if the man doesn't like giving oral hes a chump if a woman doesn't hes still a chump for wanting it.

if a man start acting strange hes cheating if a woman does the mans paranoid.

I could go on and on but you get the idea.


----------



## eric1

Wen my wife travels with me or with her friends she goes all out grooming/mani/pedi/spa/etc. It's all part of "the event". She LOVES nothing more than dressing up - be it for a vacation like this, a friend's wedding, when we go out, etc. It's just how she rolls, her mom is the same way.

It's absolutely not a red flag to me. Hell, I do the same thing. I just went gambling with my buddies and got a haircut and a shave before I went. It's nice to be presentable.


----------



## BetrayedDad

hfd273 said:


> not a beach trip more of a wine country trip.


A Brazilian for a trip to wine country?!?!?

Your wife is trolling for some strange dude.

Time to grow a mustache and go Magnum PI on her.


----------



## G.J.

Its so when the wine trickles down it doesn't cause an itch 

Its a well known problem :wink2:


----------



## The Middleman

We are all having a little fun with this whole grooming thing and if it's OK to do what she is doing to go to a winery with a divorced GF, but we really haven't gotten a lot of information from the OP. Just 3 hit and run posts.

@hfd273
Have you discussed the vacation with your wife? 
Are you comfortable with her going?
Have you asked why the Botox, waxing and spray tan? If so, what was the reaction?
What are you planing to do?

If you want good feedback, you need to interact a little more with us.


----------



## G.J.

hfd273

Quite a few questions have been asked and you really haven't answered many ?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER




----------



## hfd273

Thank you all for your feed back I am just not that good on a keyboard and that's why I don't say much sorry. While she doesn't take trips without me normally beside the once of twice a year she goes out of town for business,what she is doing to prep for this trip is not the norm for her and you know when that little voice inside of speaks sometimes its hard to ignore . I understand what a lot of people have said here when they say its just part of the trip its normal for women and I like to hear that but I will watch her for the next week and pay attention to her actions to see if I get any other readings


----------



## hfd273

And I havnt really asked her anything about the wax ( and yes to my knowledge it will be the total removal)other then you know like wow and that's different we have never really been the couple to do that we have always been trusting with each other the other stuff I guess I really didn't think about questioning her it wasn't till I sat and thought about it all together is when I started to think something is strange . And a little back ground we are both 47 yrs old we were married at 21 but started dating at 18, she holds an upper management postion in the healthcare field .


----------



## MRR

NobodySpecial said:


> If my husband were this paranoid, I would scream. I am not personally into Botox or tanning. A tan would look ridiculous on me. But I get Brazilians all the time. And ... there was a first time "after all those years". And he did not blink an eye. If I went on a trip to wineries with my friends, my husband would be grateful that I was not asking him to go to wineries, kiss me and tell me to have fun. Geez. I wonder how many affairs are actually caused by supposed affair suppression restrictive behavior.


This is pretty useless

Just because you would not cheat doesn't mean that behavior out of the ordinary should be ignored. OP probably would not have found this website and posted if he didn't have a gut feeling something was wrong, and in trying to describe something vague-- something doesn't feel right and you cannot quite put your finger on it-- he is telling us some of the KNOWN quantities he can physically comprehend and convey to us. 

It hardly means he is paranoid, he is probably worried and concerned about his marriage. 

As I stated earlier, my wife gave me the ILYBINILWY speech around Halloween a few years ago. A couple months before that she suddenly-- and yes SUDDENLY-- started getting waxes. She was SAHM at the time and used our money to do it, didn't have a real good reason as to why but through her actions, it definitely was not for me. A few months before THAT, her good friend moved out of her 'family home' and got an apt and started divorce process, which means, as was noted before, that friend was likely looking to meet guys when they were out-- which I was NOT paranoid about. 

Looking back, pretty sure my wife wanted to feel prettier for other men that she met after she saw her friends new 'lifestyle'. 

Sorry but OP has every right to wonder, and the people who have seen it happen have every right to point out their experiences of 'red flags'. I was totally not paranoid-- like your unknowing husband-- and now I am divorced. (thankfully). I don't think OP wants to be divorced though.


----------



## Be smart

This thread is going to finish in tomorrows newspaper. 

Stop attacking @hfd273 and making fun of him. He asked for our opinions and it is the right decision. He never attacked his wife or called her a cheater or anything like that. This is his wife and they spend 24 years together.

Let me ask you some questions my friend about friend and your wife :

1. is she Divorced for cheating or some other reason
2. is she a good friend of yours and your marriage

3.is this your wifes first time to do this (waxing,taning)


----------



## Lila

hfd273 said:


> And I havnt really asked her anything about the wax ( and yes to my knowledge* it will be the total removal*)other then you know like wow and that's different we have never really been the couple to do that we have always been trusting with each other the other stuff I guess I really didn't think about questioning her it wasn't till I sat and thought about it all together is when I started to think something is strange . And a little back ground we are both 47 yrs old we were married at 21 but started dating at 18, she holds an upper management postion in the healthcare field .


From the bolded statement above it sounds like the tanning, waxing and botox is all stuff she said she _wanted_ to do but hasn't done yet, correct?


----------



## hfd273

1.Yes both her and her husband cheated . 2. I always thought but I have not really talked to her in months , since her separation. 3. Waxing yes first time, Tanning maybe once before, also once before with botox to see what it was like. It was the combo that had me thinking.


----------



## Lostinthought61

perhaps it time to have a talk with her about trust and fidelity and how each of you view that. (look for body language) Is there open transparency between the both of you ? 
and if you are really unsure you could also hire a PI while she is on the trip


----------



## 225985

Why not ask her why the wax? When my wife changes the highlight color of her hair, I ask her - Why that color? Harmless question for you to ask, right? She might have a plausible and real answer.


----------



## Hope1964

Ok, based on this additional info, I would definitely say that you need to have a conversation with her. Not in an accusatory way, but in an inquisitive way. Based on her reactions, you then might want to start sleuthing.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Caught up, so this is based on the friend, Gotcha. I had a feeling infidelity was involved somehow.


----------



## kenmoore14217

Been married 47 years myself. This Brazilian thing @ 47 yrs old out of the blue is a concern however


----------



## smi11ie

If she is not going to the beach, why is she getting a brazilian? This is normal behaviour if she is planning on wearing a bikini and spending time by the pool or on the beach.

Is she planning on wearing swim wear while she is away?

If not then waxing and tan sounds like she is trying to feel sexy. 

Why is she trying to look and feel sexy when she is going on holiday without her husband? 

If she is not going on a swim wear holiday then I think you should hire a PI to check on them.


----------



## ThePheonix

Brazilian this, Brazilian that. In and of itself, its not enough info. I'd have to see pictures before I can make an assessment.


----------



## smi11ie

I think you have enough cause to check her phone discretely and check if there is any text exchange between your wife and her friend about their upcoming adventure.

I can understand your concern about this.

How would she feel if you shaved everything off right before a lads holiday?


----------



## badmemory

hfd273 said:


> The friend she is going with just got divorced, really no other red flags to speak she doesn't hide her phone or anything things around the house seem fine to me but its the waxing that got me she has never done that before and I really cant see a reason for other then to show it off and as I said its not a beach trip.


Uh.. How much do you know about this friend of hers? Just sayin.


----------



## CH

OliviaG said:


> 1) Just like guys sometimes go on fishing trips and such together (no women), girls sometimes like to go on trips together (no men).


This isn't about the trip, it's about her doing some things that are totally out of left field for the OP. He's already stated she has travels for work and has taken some solo trips without him and there has never been any issues.

1st time ever doing a Brazilian wax and for this solo trip
Only second time ever tanning and this time for a solo trip without OP
Botox, done it ONLY once to see what it was like (that OP knows about anyways) and now on this solo trip.

The tanning I could understand, the Botox and waxing, WTF...

If your husband/bf was going on a fishing trip and he suddenly shaves his junk (and he's NEVER done it before) and brings his cologne along, would you just be ok...the fishes like a guy who shaves his junk and smells nice.

These are called red flags.


----------



## Be smart

@hfd273 You have a big problem here my friend. Did you ever hear about Toxic Friend ?

This friend of your wife is a cheater and she is Divorced because of this. Trust me when I say this,she is using this trip to find herself a boyfriend or some boy toy. Your wife will be there and she will not just sit there and watch them.

This is how it starts and in your case your wife knows what is she doing. She want to atract some other man so this is why she went for all hard work.

First time wax is a big Red flag. 

Keep watching her behaviour,mail,facebook,phone and other accounts. 

I would be worry if I was in your shoes too.


----------



## Homer j

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


>



That is priceless.


----------



## chillymorn

if you want to save your marriage you need to act now before she goes off all dolled up to bang some dude or girl. once you find out she did then it might not be repairable.

very real possibility she going to try some fun with her newly divorced girl friend.

If it were me I would flat out tell he I'm not comfortable with you sprucing yourself up out of the blue and going away with this girl. Whats up ......keep questioning until you get an answer and offer to go to counseling to get your marriage back on track. tell her this is important to you and you need her to understand.

if she balks then she not trying anymore.


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## BobSimmons

Had to laugh when men are asking why women would get a brazilian before going to a beach..bikini's would suddenly be a bit too revealing...


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## phillybeffandswiss

That's okay, I laughed at how the OP said nothing and people inserted "beach vacation" on their own.


----------



## CH

BobSimmons said:


> Had to laugh when men are asking why women would get a brazilian before going to a beach..bikini's would suddenly be a bit too revealing...


That's not the issue here. If she's been to the beach thousands of times and never gotten a wax and to one day she's going solo without you and suddenly gets the wax done, red flag.

We did read the part where OP stated that this is the FIRST TIME EVER, EVER that she has done a Brazilian Wax. Unless I read it wrong.

And I'm pretty sure OP would know if she's ever had a wax done before, unless he hasn't seen her naked for a long time.


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## phillybeffandswiss

She decided to do things that other women do. So, yes, before his clarification it was part of the issue. I was siding with the women until I realized he didn't say it was a beach trip. When he came back, fleshed it out, added context and explained why the little voice started talking it moved away from the beach. The beach which was raised by another poster, not the OP.


----------



## bandit.45

hfd273 said:


> 1.Yes both her and her husband cheated . 2. I always thought but I have not really talked to her in months , since her separation. 3. Waxing yes first time, Tanning maybe once before, also once before with botox to see what it was like. It was the combo that had me thinking.


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## thenub

OP, have you actually seen their itinerary? Maybe the winery tour is just a ruse so you wouldn't want to go. Maybe there will be a sudden change of plans the second she walks out the door. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Graywolf2

I have not read all the posts so this may have already been suggested. Put a VAR under her car seat. She is making plans with her friends. You may learn something.

LOOK HERE:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## TAMAT

hfd,

You wrote, *beside the once of twice a year she goes out of town for business*

Another possibility is that your W is in a work affair and this outing is just a cover so her and OM can get together. I happens alot and having friends cover for them does too.

Keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut. 

Tamat


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## The Middleman

@hfd273
Thank you for sharing more information with us, we now have a better picture of what is going on and your thought process.

I think you have a right to be concerned and I think you should discuss it with your wife. On the positive side she is telling you that she wants to do these things and isn't hiding it. On the other side, it is still concerning and you are correct, they are big, waving red flags. Combine those things with a (most likely) toxic friend, this trip would make me very uncomfortable.

I have said here many times, that my wife and I do not take separate vacations. The only exceptions have been when she took several extended weekends away with her 3 sisters over the years, which I was/am totally fine with. A few years ago she did approach me when a friend of her's (whom I know and trust) told her she was going on a cruise with some other girlfriends and my wife should join them. So my wife told me about it and actually asked me if she could go. My reply to her was: "You're an adult, you don't have to ask my permission to go; you can come and go as you please. Do what you want to." She looked at me and I could tell the test was coming. She said, "So you are OK with my going on this cruise." I replied by saying "That wasn't what you asked. You asked if you could go. I would prefer that you not go on a vacation without me. But you are free to go, you don't need my permission." She flashed me one of those looks and said "Well I guess that answers my question." and she never brought the subject up again.

So having told that story, what are the chances that you sit down with you wife and have a slow calm discussion and let her know that you would prefer she not go on the trip. No demands. No losing temper. No loud voices. Just say that you would rather her not go on this vacation with her friend, that you aren't comfortable with it and see what happens. If she insist on going, you say OK and don't make a big deal out of it. Her reaction will be telling. Be totally honest with her about why you feel uncomfortable, and see if she can put your mind at ease. If she gets defensive or angry, then you have a real reason to be concerned about. That would be a big red flag to me.


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## G.J.

hfd273 said:


> Thank you all for your feed back I am just not that good on a keyboard and that's why I don't say much sorry. While she doesn't take trips without me normally beside the once of twice a year she goes out of town for business,what she is doing to prep for this trip is not the norm for her and you know when that little voice inside of speaks sometimes its hard to ignore . I understand what a lot of people have said here when they say its just part of the trip its normal for women and I like to hear that but I will watch her for the next week and pay attention to her actions to see if I get any other readings


Full shave and its her first time coupled with going away with her newly divorced friend it would be very wise to check

See weightlifters standard evidence post link below

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html#post9756666

I do hope its nothing but with a few things and the magic time of 40 something its a time when women can flip over night and start affairs

Oh as shes had the shave her minds made up on what ever adventure she's going into so perhaps that talk after a few days investigation would be wise


----------



## G.J.

Also its very rare the gut lies....its I.M.O. you picking up signals and not taking note consciously at the time and then the sub conscious stores them and it manifests as the gut feeling


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## phillybeffandswiss

This is kind of funny. It reminds me of values deleted thread. People kept adding more and more to the situation, to the point they were arguing their own made up scenarios and nothing his OP and further posts stated.


----------



## Jasel

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This is kind of funny. It reminds me of values deleted thread. People kept adding more and more to the situation, to the point they were arguing their own made up scenarios and nothing his OP and further posts stated.


I've been seeing that a lot lately in several threads. 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## aine

chillymorn said:


> the famous TAM double standard rears its ugly head.
> 
> 
> if the man doesn't like giving oral hes a chump if a woman doesn't hes still a chump for wanting it.
> 
> if a man start acting strange he's cheating if a woman does the mans paranoid.
> 
> I could go on and on but you get the idea.


I think your analysis is a stretch tbh. There is not enough information given by the OP to jump to any conclusion on the OP's wife. It is the same thing as saying a wife should suspect her H because he bought a new t short, aftershave and got a hair cut because he is going on a fishing trip or golf outing with his buddies. 

If the OP had other flags, gut feelings etc then yes. But at the moment the informaion is far too sparse to really conclude.


----------



## chillymorn

aine said:


> I think your analysis is a stretch tbh. There is not enough information given by the OP to jump to any conclusion on the OP's wife. It is the same thing as saying a wife should suspect her H because he bought a new t short, aftershave and got a hair cut because he is going on a fishing trip or golf outing with his buddies.
> 
> If the OP had other flags, gut feelings etc then yes. But at the moment the informaion is far too sparse to really conclude.


So..... His wife never got a wax before, figured botox, and spray tan would be nice when she goes to wine country with her newly divorced friend who got divorced because she cheated!

Red flags:redcard:


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## chillymorn

I would be pi$$ed if she got the wax job and didn't do it for me her freaking husband!

Noooo she did all this for her girlfriend! 


I'd be pi$$ed. 

I would Probably go out and buy a Harley ! F her


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## Spotthedeaddog

hfd273 said:


> Need some advice if I should be worrying about this trip my wife wants to take with a couple friends the trip is two weeks away and she went for a botox injection she also got a brazlian wax and is going for a full body spray tan. We have been married for 26 years and have to grown children . should be saying something about this trip or just keep an eye on things.


This could easily be the flipside of another poster's relationship that came up last week.

You need to take a _Serious_ look at your relationship, and work out whether you're both enjoying it and are on the same page going the same direction.

If you can be a fun person you need to go too. if you aren't or can't then your marriage is in the toxic danger zone.

her Braz and Botx was probably just girl pal stuff (but sith a couple of bottles of wine it doesn't take much more....). However hanging out with her friend is likely to make her realise she's worked for most of her life, and if she sells out and gets her equity now, then she's set for most of her life. travel light, few crafty hobbies, sing, do volunteer work.... she doesn't have the hormone drive for the Big Nest any more. so chances are her priorities are radically different than they were 15 or even 5 years ago. adjust or be left holding the wrapping paper....


----------



## aine

chillymorn said:


> I would be pi$$ed if she got the wax job and didn't do it for me her freaking husband!
> 
> Noooo she did all this for her girlfriend!
> 
> 
> I'd be pi$$ed.
> 
> I would Probably go out and buy a Harley ! F her


Maybe she wants to feel good about herself? Women like to do some prep for holidays, she might be using the pool at the hotel. 
The way some guys are talking here, it's not hard to imagine they would fit very well in a country were women have to wear the hijab, just cover her all up, no exposure, stay indoors then the man will be happy. WTF! 

All we have here is pure speculation. The OP should talk to his wife and ask her why, none of us can presuppose anything.


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## Lila

OliviaG said:


> Yeah, this is the second thread where I'm picturing a bunch of angry men holding torches and demanding a woman's head on a platter.


LMAO....it's the Pube Police.


----------



## The Middleman

The question isn't should a woman should be 'allowed' to wax her privates or not. The issue at hand is that the OP sees a behavior in his wife that is unusual, for her, and he isn't comfortable with it. In a relationship, when something like that happens, it needs to be talked out. If he's is uncomfortable with it, she (in my opinion) is obligated to make him comfortable with it. If not, there will be some kind of fall out that she will have to deal with. There always is a fall out when couples disagree on issues that matter to at least one of the two parties.

This isn't an issue of a woman's right to groom her body the way she wants or his being insecure. It's a matter of uncharacteristic behavior in a spouse that make the other spouse uncomfortable. When that happens in my marriage, it gets discussed.


----------



## chillymorn

OliviaG said:


> Yeah, this is the second thread where I'm picturing a bunch of angry men holding torches and demanding a woman's head on a platter.


thats a pretty good imagination. hyperbole maybe.

questioning new strange out or the norm behavior is equated to pitch forks and a head on a platter.


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## alexm

This place exists so people can ask advice about things like this, which is great. However, 99% of threads like this one are almost pointless, in that the first answer is always "communicate with your partner". Something that one should not have to be told on an internet forum. IMO, this is the biggest problem marriages have these days - lack of communication.

What OP needs to do (or should have done FIRST) is to ask his wife what's going on. Yet it seems like most people these days are so concerned about how they'll appear to their spouse and therefore walk on eggshells.

So if I were in his shoes, my conversation would go like this:

"Mrs. M, while I'm happy you're looking forward to your winery tour weekend with your friend, I'm wondering why you went out and got a wax job, a spray tan and some botox? I'm also a little concerned that your trip partner is a divorced woman with a history of cheating."

"Now while I'm certainly not being in any way accusatory, I'd like you to understand how this looks to ME. I trust you, and I don't have any reason to be concerned because I know you love me, however, is it possible you're over looking the optics of all of this?"

And that's all you really have to say. The rest is in her court.

That's the thing with these types of scenarios. Sometimes there IS malicious intent, unfortunately. But usually one's spouse deserves the benefit of the doubt, at least to start with.

Often, people just don't quite see the optics of what they're doing, ie. how it appears to others, including their partners. They're oblivious, or they get caught up in the moment, yet still have good and honorable intentions.

OP's wifes friend is newly single and interested in a girls weekend, doing girly things. When one is married, these types of girls getaways are few and far between, or even non-existent. And as I said before, wineries and B&B's aren't exactly hot spots to pick up single guys. Part of girls getaways are also, apparently, a little bit of pampering before or during.

So the problem, if there is any, is not necessarily in WHAT OP's wife is doing, but in how it's perceived to her husband. Yet she's not aware of how it could be perceived. Therefore, she needs to know. She may, in fact, hear what he has to say and think twice about it. "Yes, I suppose going away with my newly divorced friend and getting all dolled up beforehand doesn't really look all that good to you, dear. Therefore I'll make sure to call you when I get there and check in a few times to see how you're doing and tell you all about my day."

In short, I'd communicate to her what I felt about this, but give her the benefit of the doubt. This can also help to put the brakes on any further pushing of the envelope, which will no doubt happen thanks to the divorced friend. She'll want to do something else in a few months time, and so on.

The only real danger I see with this, is a married person spending inordinate amounts of time with single/divorced friends. Single life tends to rub off, and also remind one of the days when they were "free". If this type of thing becomes regular, that's when I'd be concerned. That's not to say that married folks shouldn't have single or newly divorced friends - you can't shun someone because of their relationship status. It just means that they need to pick and choose, carefully, the activities they participate in with them.


----------



## G.J.

OP ignore all the in fighting and *do what you think *is the correct course 

You have gone out of your way to find an infidelity forum (which is telling on its own) as your gut is saying some thing is off coupled with a 
sequence of events that only you know at this stage may be some thing more than what's apparent

I commend you for noticing a different behaviour in your wife as a lot of husbands wouldn't even be aware if their wife's went from brunette to blond

Keep us posted on events

take care



.


----------



## wmn1

chillymorn said:


> the famous TAM double standard rears its ugly head.
> 
> 
> if the man doesn't like giving oral hes a chump if a woman doesn't hes still a chump for wanting it.
> 
> if a man start acting strange hes cheating if a woman does the mans paranoid.
> 
> I could go on and on but you get the idea.


amazing, isn't it ?? agreed


----------



## The Middleman

OliviaG said:


> Agreed. I don't think anyone in the thread has framed it that way..


I think a few people have done so over these 10 or so pages (myself included, but it was tongue in cheek with me). There also seemed to be a little righteous indignation about men commenting on the appropriateness of OP wife’s wanting the Brazilian. I think a lot of that was because the OP was very vague with the facts and circumstances until yesterday. 



OliviaG said:


> Okay, we diverge here. I think she's obligated to answer his questions honestly. Whether or not he feels comfortable with her answers is not her responsibility. He may be totally unreasonable in his expectations or suspicions and if so she couldn't possibly make him comfortable.





OliviaG said:


> Agreed that there will be fallout. It might be fallout that he has to deal with. Actually they would both have to deal with it. But the fallout may be much different than what you're imagining.


You make good points and I agree with one exception. I think it is her responsibility to make him comfortable with her answers. That is what a good spouse does when another spouse is struggling with something ... and all of this works both ways … and this is where the fall out comes in. I agree that he might have to be the one to deal with the fall out, but so does she. As with any issue in a marriage, you try to compromise, but sometimes the issue has to be decided either one way or the other; a winner and a looser. Use me as an example. In my earlier post I mentioned the cruise my wife asked me about. I said she can go if she wanted, but I was not OK with it; the choice was hers to make. Now I thought long and hard about what would happen if she went. I know for sure I would be pissed because I said I wasn’t comfortable and I mulled several options in my head about what I would do.


I would certainly be pissed off both before and after the trip and it would show up constantly. I can’t hide these things; it’s not my personality to do that.
I thought about planning my own separate vacation. You know … bigger and better.
I considered to coincidentally book a vacation for myself on the same cruise (I thought that to be my best option and was set to do that) 
I even though about not being home when she returned (that was not likely to happen).

I’m very against separate vacations for married couples. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I would never consider doing it myself, and would have been very hurt if my wife decided to go after I explained how I felt.



OliviaG said:


> I would discuss uncharacteristic behaviour too. I wouldn't assume the worst though, forbid her to go and threaten divorce over it unless there's much more to this than what we've been told. Doing so would be a huge overreaction and would point to huge insecurity on his part as well as a lack of trust in his wife of almost three decades.


Again, this is something that works both ways. Does this burning desire to take a vacation with a divorced GF outweigh the way my spouse of nearly three decades feels about this? Is the vacation worth putting this person that I spent over half my life with through this anxiety for two weeks? Even if it is his insecurity? This is one of those things that there is going to be a winner and a looser. Unless she can make him comfortable with it in one way or another, he will resent this. And I can picture that if she cancels the vacation that she will resent him. My wife knew up front before she asked me about the cruise how I felt about separate vacations so I think she was just testing me. In a marriage these kinds of things should be known up front and discussed before decisions and plans are made.


----------



## wmn1

MRR said:


> This is pretty useless
> 
> Just because you would not cheat doesn't mean that behavior out of the ordinary should be ignored. OP probably would not have found this website and posted if he didn't have a gut feeling something was wrong, and in trying to describe something vague-- something doesn't feel right and you cannot quite put your finger on it-- he is telling us some of the KNOWN quantities he can physically comprehend and convey to us.
> 
> It hardly means he is paranoid, he is probably worried and concerned about his marriage.
> 
> As I stated earlier, my wife gave me the ILYBINILWY speech around Halloween a few years ago. A couple months before that she suddenly-- and yes SUDDENLY-- started getting waxes. She was SAHM at the time and used our money to do it, didn't have a real good reason as to why but through her actions, it definitely was not for me. A few months before THAT, her good friend moved out of her 'family home' and got an apt and started divorce process, which means, as was noted before, that friend was likely looking to meet guys when they were out-- which I was NOT paranoid about.
> 
> Looking back, pretty sure my wife wanted to feel prettier for other men that she met after she saw her friends new 'lifestyle'.
> 
> Sorry but OP has every right to wonder, and the people who have seen it happen have every right to point out their experiences of 'red flags'. I was totally not paranoid-- like your unknowing husband-- and now I am divorced. (thankfully). I don't think OP wants to be divorced though.


thank you for sharing your thoughts, MRR.

I agree with you 100% and I am glad you moved on to better places yourself. Your thoughts are well received here


----------



## Graywolf2

Of all the factors the most concerning is the friend that’s single because both she and her husband cheated. The friend doesn’t think cheating is a big deal, everyone does it. The plans maybe officially innocent now but how is the friend going to entertain herself on the trip. Flirting with guys would be fun but what is your wife supposed to do?

I know of a case where a happily married guy with kids arranged a cruse for himself and his wife for her birthday and their anniversary. At the last minute he couldn’t go because of work. The tickets were not refundable so they gave them to a single female friend of the family. So the wife and the single friend went on the cruise. What do you think the single woman did on the cruse? The wife acted like her wing woman. The two of them spent the week with two guys. 

The wife had the time of her life but felt so guilty when she got back that she confessed. The girlfriend thought the wife was stupid. “What they don’t know won’t hurt them.”


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I always like ironic hyperbole. 

Do I think she is cheating? Nope. Do I firmly believe actions and who you hang around with can lead to trouble? Yes. Do I believe your marriage MUST be "troubled" for an affair to happen? Nope. I'd communicate my misgivings, but be nice in explaining why. As others have said, even some men, communication is important.

It's funny how women can tell a man they don't like one of their friends or demand they not go somewhere with a person under the guise of communication. Yet, men are angry pitchfork carrying jihadist oppressors who want their women to wear burkahs, if they do the same.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

phillybeffandswiss said:


> i always like ironic hyperbole.
> 
> Do i think she is cheating? Nope. Do i firmly believe actions and who you hang around with can lead to trouble? Yes. Do i believe your marriage must be "troubled" for an affair to happen? Nope. I'd communicate my misgivings, but be nice in explaining why. As others have said, even some men, communication is important.
> 
> It's funny how women can tell a man they don't like one of their friends or demand they not go somewhere with a person under the guise of communication. Yet, men are angry pitchfork carrying jihadist oppressors who want their women to wear burkahs, if they do the same.


^ this! ^


----------



## MyRevelation

hfd273 said:


> Thank you all for your feed back I am just not that good on a keyboard and that's why I don't say much sorry. While she doesn't take trips without me normally beside the once of twice a year she goes out of town for business,*what she is doing to prep for this trip is not the norm for her and you know when that little voice inside of speaks sometimes its hard to ignore* . I understand what a lot of people have said here when they say its just part of the trip its normal for women and I like to hear that but I will watch her for the next week and pay attention to her actions to see if I get any other readings


This ^^^ is the most compelling evidence to me. You've been M'd to this woman for 25+ years and her recent behavior in preparing for this trip has your own personal radar on high alert. Combine that with the recently divorced wayward travelling partner, and my mind would likely go where yours is now.

I would definitely be in surveillance mode ... how does she normally communicate with wayward travel buddy?

When my gut started going off, I found my proof in her "sent" folder. She deleted everything else, but forgot her "sent" folder. I'm told this is a pretty common mis-step.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

If I were in the OP's shoes I'd shave my sack, Today. Then make sure that she get's a glance at my "new look" before she leaves for her get-a-way.

When she asks why, I'd just tell her, "For the same reason that you did it... Have a nice trip.".


----------



## turnera

Why don't you just talk to her?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

See, to me, not the norm isn't always a precursor to trouble. You can see the guy is conflicted. At her age, his as well, you start questioning things about your life and confronting your own mortality. We scoff at the term midlife crisis til we get near the corner. Honestly, her wanting to look younger and good for her trip doesn't bother me at all. It's what he added and what he hasn't said which raises red flags. Do I think all divorcees are terrible cheaters who should have no friends? No, not at all. If there is infidelity involved on both sides, including a revenge affair, I'm going to have problems. My wife had single friends, but now she only hangs with them when I can go in most cases. Same goes for me. Does it make them bad people? Nope. Still, their priorities and partying is wildly different than mine. 

Anyway, back to the OP.

Couple of questions hfd:
How's your marriage?
How's your sex life?
Any cheating from you, including inappropriate conversations with women?
Is it the divorced friend and infidelity that bothers you?
Is it where they are going?


----------



## wmn1

OliviaG said:


> Yeah, this is the second thread where I'm picturing a bunch of angry men holding torches and demanding a woman's head on a platter.


or maybe it's one of those threads which a number of female posters call the poor guy paranoid and when his gut feeling turns out right, and something bad happens, and his life is falling apart, those who accused him and the others of being paranoid or being controlling suddenly disappear as to not admit they were wrong. I have seen that before too.


----------



## MRR

OliviaG said:


> Since when can women demand that a man not go somewhere and get no push back? I don't know any men in happy marriages whose wives object to them going away for the weekend (or a week, even) with the guys once or twice a year. The exception being couples with very young children or in exceptional circumstances (like money trouble, marriage trouble, very few vacation days).


Sorry, but you are being of zero use here. Since when can women demand that a man not go somewhere and get no push back? I have no idea, but I do no whatever the answer is has NOTHING to do with the OPs dilemma. 

He would not have come here and posted his scenario if something was not right. You are trying to take everything literally, and completely out of context. 

Not just to appease you-- I don't think is some awful woman who is planning on hooking up with strangers on this trip, or that she should be held home against her will. 

I DO think the H should pay attention to his marriage, the attraction level between them, her behavior/actions and be aware that she very well may be open to the attention of other men. 

I do not know the exact answer but it is somewhere in that gray area.


----------



## wmn1

OliviaG said:


> Could be. Could also be that the guy is pushed into paranoia by what he reads here so that he ends up creating the situation that he fears (not cheating, but marital trouble).
> 
> FWIW, I didn't call the OP paranoid; he doesn't seem to be. I can see though how some of the over-the-top paranoid responses he got might make him feel paranoid - I've had it start to happen to me before here, so I know how easily it can happen.


I think that people are just telling him to talk to her and do some independent checking up on things before it's too late. To me, that sounds reasonable.

That being said, I think there is definitely a big red flag here and I too would be questioning things.

I know you didn't say paranoid. Others did. 

I agree largely with the Middleman in this thread. Though my wife and I have taken a couple trips apart, it is rare and not really our thing to do. Occasional weekends and only 2 big trips where each of us were doing something the other didn't want to do and a small number of weekend trips, though I have been on more (fishing etc..) but again, those were exceptions to the norm and is not encouraged with us.

The OP here needs to act and get to the bottom of things and figure out how to ease his fears IMO


----------



## badmemory

OliviaG said:


> Could be. Could also be that the guy is pushed into paranoia by what he reads here so that he ends up creating the situation that he fears (not cheating, but marital trouble).


I don't think he's paranoid. This is a huge red flag. For what innocent reason would a wife get a "Brazilian", then immediately go on a trip where her husband can't "benefit" from it; where she is not going to be wearing a swim suit, and will be traveling alone with a recently divorced friend?

It's just logical to be suspicious that either:

- She is looking to have sex with that friend

- She is looking to troll for men

- She is hooking up with a man she already knows


----------



## 86857

OP, what she is doing may be no more than the bunch of girls going on a wine trip & because it's the first time they have done it, such some of them have decided to treat themselves by doing fake tan, botox & Brazilian. For your W & others who may have not done it before, they have decided to do it as well for the novelty. It could well be that none of them have done it before. 

From the teenage years, girls do that sort of stuff, global preening for an event for want of a better way of saying it. It's fun. 

The Brazilian is a concern for you because while people will notice the tan & the effects of the botox, no one will notice the Brazilian, except for you. She may have got it done purely out of sheer curiosity since she & likely the others decided to do all the other beauty stuff in advance of the holiday. 

As others have said a winery weekend is usually a girlie or couples thing & not a party, meet heaps of guys w/e. 

As far as the divorcee is concerned, if your W can't stay faithful just because she's in the company of a divorcee, even if there were affairs involved, then it would be a sad day. Being in the company of married people can be just as bad. I know a bunch of married guys who go away on an annual golf weekend. Two of them use the opportunity to have ONS. The other guys know. They turn a blind eye, but don't cheat themselves. I would call out a friend who did that, so not good I know, but that's just the way it is. My point is that the others don't cheat just because they're in the company of those who do. 

I keep saying 'just ask her'. You can do it in a very lighthearted way, *"Honey what's with the Brazilian. People will notice the tan & the botox. Was the Brazilian thrown into the package for me ha ha ."* You get my drift. She's your wife. You should be able to ask her. 

Other than that, you say there are no other red flags. It really doesn't sound as if anything is going on & I can't imagine that she would be so premeditated that she would be getting a Brazilian with the idea of a ONS in mind. She can hardly have an A if she is just going away for a few days. 

Us girls like to look nice for any event & we enjoy getting dressed up etc no matter who will be there or not. The wine w/e is just another event & an excuse to get all dressed up, not for chasing guys, but because we women love the preening thing!

You won't relax until you hear it from the horse's mouth. So ask her but be lighthearted. Don't make a big thing of it. 
My guess is she will say something along the lines of, "Well, I never had one so I thought I'd try it out when I was getting all the other things done for the trip." 

So take her out to dinner this w/e & when's you're both relaxed, bring it up.


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## badmemory

OliviaG said:


> I've already given a few plausible reasons, and I don't think it's been established that she won't be wearing a swimsuit, just that she won't be going to the beach. We don't even know how long she's going away for; it could just be for a weekend and her husband will have ample opportunity to 'benefit' both before and after her trip.


Fair enough.

Perhaps OP, you could fill us in on those details.


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## Divinely Favored

This prep out of the blue for a "girls trip" would be more in line with a guys trip to a popular ski lodge but before he went he tanned, groomed/ new hair style and bought some NEW "all the rage" cologne for a 'GUYS TRIP"

Hell to the no!!!!

Yeah right. How long is this trip? Women's conference or botanical gardens or something I can see. But with a known adultress that will be on the prowl where they will be consuming alcohol. I bet there will be men around as the adultress will see that they make some clubs patrolling for guys.

Has she been to this area with the business trips before. Met some guy therecpreviously? Can you track her phone? Griend finder? You need to get VAR strapped under her seat to get info, listen to plans they may make. pen VAR? I like the app a guy once spoke of that makes phone into listening device.

11pm honey were going to bed now. For next 5 hrs they are at club and another's house. 
Spouses have no business vacation away from each other.


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## The Middleman

turnera said:


> Why don't you just talk to her?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

THIS!


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## Buddy400

OliviaG said:


> I've already given a few plausible reasons, and I don't think it's been established that she won't be wearing a swimsuit, just that she won't be going to the beach. We don't even know how long she's going away for; it could just be for a weekend and her husband will have ample opportunity to 'benefit' both before and after her trip.


I have a great marriage and fully trust my wife.

But if she got a Brazilian Wax (for the first time!) prior to going on a solo vacation, I'd find that a bit weird. 

Certainly she's worn a swimsuit before. If she got one on a regular basis, I wouldn't think anything about it. 

I'd certainly ask her what's up. If I didn't get a reasonable response, it would be disturbing.

I don't think this is something to be overly worried about, but I wouldn't just ignore it either.

If this happened in my marriage, I'd ask her about it. Either I'd get an answer that made sense to me or she'd realize why I thought it was odd and not do it.


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## phillybeffandswiss

OliviaG said:


> Since when can women demand that a man not go somewhere and get no push back?


Where in my post did I say there would be no push back. It's even funnier you snipped out the point where the confusion may lie and still misread my post. You actually addressed the point I was making, but skipped the hyperbole I mentioned.


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## NobodySpecial

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It's funny how women can tell a man they don't like one of their friends or demand they not go somewhere with a person under the guise of communication. Yet, men are angry pitchfork carrying jihadist oppressors who want their women to wear burkahs, if they do the same.


In what way is this a male/female issue? I would never tell my DH whom he could go somewhere with. Nor would he take it if I tried.


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## phillybeffandswiss

NobodySpecial said:


> In what way is this a male/female issue? I would never tell my DH whom he could go somewhere with. Nor would he take it if I tried.


The issue itself is not, a few specific comments were and I addressed them with my opinion.


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## convert

turnera said:


> Why don't you just talk to her?


:surprise:
Whaaaaat
this makes way to much sense:wink2:

I don't think there is to much danger of driving anything farther under ground here.
and OP could gauge her reaction with the talk on what he could do next if anything.


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## Rubix Cubed

@hfd273,
Have you had a chat with your wife yet to at least see if she has a plausible reason?


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## CH

Grabs popcorn before mods start stomping on people in this pissing match. We're here to help the OP and not here to start slinging *bleep* at each other.

The point has been made, let it drop and let's try to help OP with his situation.

Could there be cheating, probably not like alot of people say. But the red flags are cause for concern.

It's pretty easy to find out what kind of trip it is based on what she's packing.

If it's her regular outfits (not dressed to kill or attract flies to crap) then I wouldn't worry to much. If she's throwing in skimpy outfits that haven't seen the light of day around you...

For 2 weeks she should be packing pretty heavy, well most girls I know would. If she's taking a little tote pack with barely enough clothes to last 2 or 3 days that could be a problem also. I do not know of a woman (yes there are some out there that are not part of the norm) that could survive wearing the same couple of outfits over 2 weeks on a vacation. Now a guy, give him 2 shirts, 2 pants (shorts preferred), 2 undies, a pairs of socks, 1 hat, 1 shoe, 1 flip flop and we're good for a month long vacation.

At the end of the day, how much trust do you have in her?


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## phillybeffandswiss

We don't know the length of the trip.


> Need some advice if I should be worrying about this trip my wife wants to take with a couple friends* the trip is two weeks away* and she went for a botox injection she also got a brazlian wax and is going for a full body spray tan.


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## Chaparral

Has she bought new underwear you haven't seen before?


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## alexm

CH said:


> 1 shoe, 1 flip flop and we're good for a month long vacation.


Always make sure you bring one left and one right, otherwise you'll just look ridiculous. :surprise:


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## Finwe

G.J. said:


>


I feel so much smarter. Why don't they teach this is school? I am 45 and I never knew any of this!


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## 86857

OP's unease re timing of Brazilian is entirely reasonable & most on here seem to agree. 

He didn't object to W going in the first place. So what's with all the extraneous general discussion about paranoia & being controlling within marriage with a bit of self-righteousness thrown in. 

OP may be led to believe that W may see him as controlling or paranoid if he asks her. 

OP, your unease is reasonable. It may be nothing & I would think the vast majority of husbands would wonder why the Brazilian now. 

Ignore much of the noise & bickering on your thread & maybe post more info about W's holiday & your marriage & why you were reluctant to ask her.


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## Be smart

Are we going to fight each other now and prove to the OP who is right ???

This man is living with his wife for 25 years and suddenly she is doing things she never did before. Be honest with yourself-this would alarm you too,no matter if you are female or male.

There is other question-would you allow your Husband or Wife to go with a Cheater on vacation??? She is recently Divorced for Cheating. 

I am not saying all Cheaters are bad and we should burn them,people can change,but OP lost all contact with her.

Talk with your wife and check her phone,facebook or whatever she got. Dont feel guilty she is your wife

Stay strong.


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## Dyokemm

Graywolf2 said:


> Of all the factors the most concerning is the friend that’s single because both she and her husband cheated. The friend doesn’t think cheating is a big deal, everyone does it. The plans maybe officially innocent now but how is the friend going to entertain herself on the trip. Flirting with guys would be fun but what is your wife supposed to do?
> 
> I know of a case where a happily married guy with kids arranged a cruse for himself and his wife for her birthday and their anniversary. At the last minute he couldn’t go because of work. The tickets were not refundable so they gave them to a single female friend of the family. So the wife and the single friend went on the cruise. What do you think the single woman did on the cruse? The wife acted like her wing woman. The two of them spent the week with two guys.
> The wife had the time of her life but felt so guilty when she got back that she confessed. The girlfriend thought the wife was stupid. “What they don’t know won’t hurt them."QUOTE]
> 
> 
> uggh....I certainly hope he divorced her.
> 
> To use a cruise meant to celebrate her birthday and an anniversary to go off and spend a week f*cking at least one, if not both, of these POS scumbags is unforgivable in my book.
> 
> I wouldn't give a d*mn how guilty she felt.


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## becareful

Graywolf2 said:


> Of all the factors the most concerning is the friend that’s single because both she and her husband cheated. The friend doesn’t think cheating is a big deal, everyone does it. The plans maybe officially innocent now but how is the friend going to entertain herself on the trip. Flirting with guys would be fun but what is your wife supposed to do?
> 
> I know of a case where a happily married guy with kids arranged a cruse for himself and his wife for her birthday and their anniversary. At the last minute he couldn’t go because of work. The tickets were not refundable so they gave them to a single female friend of the family. So the wife and the single friend went on the cruise. What do you think the single woman did on the cruse? The wife acted like her wing woman. The two of them spent the week with two guys.
> 
> The wife had the time of her life but felt so guilty when she got back that she confessed. The girlfriend thought the wife was stupid. “What they don’t know won’t hurt them.”


Did the betrayed husband divorce his wife?


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## TX-SC

The projection is strong in this one Young Jedi. 

So, if I get this right, she trimmed her pubes so she must be cheating?


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## Marduk

TX-SC said:


> The projection in strong in this one Young Jedi.
> 
> So, if I get this right, she trimmed her pubes so she must be cheating?


Well, I for one welcome a world of full brazilians for all women. But we're getting sidetracked. 

If her behaviour has dramatically changed, that's something to pay attention to. 

If you've been asking her to get a Brazilian and she's been refusing, and then she gets one when she's going away, then look out.


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## bankshot1993

Man, it blows me away just how much debate and banter this subject has given rise to. Honestly I can see both sides. In a happy, healthy, good solid marriage this probably wouldn't raise any issue but let's face it, there are flags in here that we continually tell people to look for if they suspect infidelity so its no surprise that perhaps the poster has a mild concern.

red flags:
*sudden new interest/change in personal grooming, check.
*increase in girls night out/trip (maybe, this is a weekend end trip after all).
*new effort and attention to appearance (botox, tanning) check.
* hanging around single/recently divorced women, check (going on a trip with one).

So here's the rub. if the OP came onto this forum after the weekend trip saying how she was acting weird on her return and he suspects an affair we would tell him he had his head in the sand for missing those flags above not to mention whatever other ones aren't/weren't mentioned. 

My point is lets all keep it in perspective. In my opinion depending on recent events and the health of the relationship as well as the couple's history in general there could be reason for suspicion or not, but considering we can't deny these are flags that we constantly preach to be on the look out for I would say he has reason to be concerned.

I for one would definitely be scratching my head about the timing. Going on a trip to wine country with another woman I wouldn't expect a lot of time to be spent in a bathing suit so I would wonder about the bikini wax. Did she pack swimwear to take? The botox, maybe a midlife thing. maybe feeling a little self conscious about winkles. The tanning, again if this is not something she does every year I would wonder about it.

In the end there is no doubt she is going through some effort to look good with little to no clothes on, on a trip that her husband (the only person that should see her in that state) won't be accompanying her, so I would suggest that the OP could have a reason to be concerned.


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## G.J.

OP Has she purchased any new adventurous underwear recently

Or new cloths perhaps for the holiday that are more revealing than she normally has prior for this holiday


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## 86857

TX-SC said:


> The projection is strong in this one Young Jedi.
> 
> So, if I get this right, she trimmed her pubes so she must be cheating?


Dunno if you saw the earlier part of the thread @TX-SC. 
Not so much getting rid of the pubes, it's actually about getting rid of the pubes, for the very first time right before she goes on a girls only hoilday for 2 weeks. 
Maybe put it another way. "Honey, I'm getting my first ever Brazilian for the girls holiday away to the wineries." 

If I was H, I'd have to say, "Eh?" 

That's all OP is doing.

Though he hasn't posted for 7 or 8 pages. 

Can't say I blame him.


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## chillymorn

Hope the op comes back and tells us how it all played out.


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## The Middleman

chillymorn said:


> Hope the op comes back and tells us how it all played out.


Last time he was on the boards was 5:00 PM yesterday. He's reading but choosing not to participate.

@hfd273 How are things going, give us an update.


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## Slow Hand

NM


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## 86857

Slow Hand said:


> NM


@slowhand What does NM mean? I've seen it before. Thanks.


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## rzmpf

The Middleman said:


> Last time he was on the boards was 5:00 PM yesterday. He's reading but choosing not to participate.
> 
> @hfd273 How are things going, give us an update.


Can't blame him. This childish bickering about the extent and purpose of waxing, making fun of the situation and how it is perfectly normal for some of the women here when it is NOT normal behaviour for OP's wife and a change in grooming habits is often portrayed by the same posters as a potential red flag would have me stopped posting too.


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## syhoybenden

********** said:


> @slowhand What does NM mean? I've seen it before. Thanks.



Never mind.


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## wmn1

Dyokemm said:


> Graywolf2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of all the factors the most concerning is the friend that’s single because both she and her husband cheated. The friend doesn’t think cheating is a big deal, everyone does it. The plans maybe officially innocent now but how is the friend going to entertain herself on the trip. Flirting with guys would be fun but what is your wife supposed to do?
> 
> I know of a case where a happily married guy with kids arranged a cruse for himself and his wife for her birthday and their anniversary. At the last minute he couldn’t go because of work. The tickets were not refundable so they gave them to a single female friend of the family. So the wife and the single friend went on the cruise. What do you think the single woman did on the cruse? The wife acted like her wing woman. The two of them spent the week with two guys.
> The wife had the time of her life but felt so guilty when she got back that she confessed. The girlfriend thought the wife was stupid. “What they don’t know won’t hurt them."QUOTE]
> 
> 
> uggh....I certainly hope he divorced her.
> 
> To use a cruise meant to celebrate her birthday and an anniversary to go off and spend a week f*cking at least one, if not both, of these POS scumbags is unforgivable in my book.
> 
> I wouldn't give a d*mn how guilty she felt.
> 
> 
> 
> I do too. Hopefully she's gone from his life. He's too good for her.
> 
> It is a good story by Graywolf regarding how a single friend in ways can act. Further, the fact that the single friend wanted to bury it and then let the wife and her be fake in front of the husband for the rest of their lives is disgusting.
> 
> I too wonder how this story ended out from the cruise ?
Click to expand...


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## Graywolf2

Graywolf2 said:


> I know of a case where a happily married guy with kids arranged a cruse for himself and his wife for her birthday and their anniversary. At the last minute he couldn’t go because of work. The tickets were not refundable so they gave them to a single female friend of the family. So the wife and the single friend went on the cruise. What do you think the single woman did on the cruse? The wife acted like her wing woman. The two of them spent the week with two guys.
> 
> The wife had the time of her life but felt so guilty when she got back that she confessed. The girlfriend thought the wife was stupid. “What they don’t know won’t hurt them.”



They tried to work it out for the kids. The wife did confess after all. Ultimately they got a divorce. The husband couldn’t handle it. The OM had a better “honeymoon” with his wife than he did.


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## becareful

Graywolf2 said:


> I know of a case where a happily married guy with kids arranged a cruse for himself and his wife for her birthday and their anniversary. At the last minute he couldn’t go because of work. The tickets were not refundable so they gave them to a single female friend of the family. So the wife and the single friend went on the cruise. What do you think the single woman did on the cruse? The wife acted like her wing woman. The two of them spent the week with two guys.
> 
> The wife had the time of her life but felt so guilty when she got back that she confessed. The girlfriend thought the wife was stupid. “What they don’t know won’t hurt them.”
> 
> They tried to work it out for the kids. The wife did confess after all. Ultimately they got a divorce. The husband couldn’t handle it. The OM had a better “honeymoon” with his wife than he did.
> 
> 
> 
> They tried to work it out for the kids. The wife did confess after all. Ultimately they got a divorce. The husband couldn’t handle it. The OM had a better “honeymoon” with his wife than he did.


Ugh, it pains me just to read it. Poor guy, he must have loved his wife very much, but little did he knew that a thoughtful gift to his wife would end his marriage and destroy his family.


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## wmn1

Graywolf2 said:


> They tried to work it out for the kids. The wife did confess after all. Ultimately they got a divorce. The husband couldn’t handle it. The OM had a better “honeymoon” with his wife than he did.


I hope he's in a better place now. Like him, I wouldn't be able to get over it. I will give her credit in admitting it to him and her friend is a complete piece of $hit. However, once she went that route, she didn't deserve him anymore. Poor guy is sleeping at home thinking of her and missing her on a cruise he's supposed to be one and she's doing that to him?? Horrible story but thanks for sharing and linking it in this thread


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