# Where is the line between a male friend and an EA?



## Wyrd One

My wife is a surgical resident and works probably 80+ hours a week. Her only friend, her roomate from college, moved to DC years ago. They still talk on the phone every now and then, but aside from her the only other person in my wife's life that is not a work acquaintance, is me. She's literally always either at work or home, and once in awhile when she has a day off we'll go out to eat or play some tennis together, but she's been fairly limited in what she can do and has complained about feeling a bit isolated in her life right now.

About two weeks ago she had a party with some of her fellow residents and got to talking to one of her male coworkers. She found that they got along well and they can vent about work, and talk about coffee and she's has decided to make him a new friend in her life. So now they've started hanging out more and are texting and going out for coffee, and having read a lot about EAs lately I wanted to know what I should be watching out for here, or should I be actively watching at all, maybe that's too paranoid?

I do have trust and jealousy issues from a past relationship that I never really dealt with, and this new friendship is bringing a lot of that back up in me. I need to figure out whether I'm worrying needlessly, he's just a friend who happens to be male, or if she's unconciously seeking out his company because I'm lacking in some important way.

I've talked with her about it, and she said if it truly bothers me she would drop all contact with him, which I appreciate, but that she would feel isolated again with no friends in the area. I don't feel like I can ask that of her. She said I'm a wonderful part of her life that she values greatly, but at the same time I can't expect to be all things to her to the point where she doesn't need any other friends. We have a great relationship and get along so well, but that doesn't mean she doesn't need contact with other people.

If he weren't a single man I'd have zero issues with this at all, so I don't think there's any *real* need to be concerned beyond my own possesiveness and jealousy, but I just wanted a sanity check I guess.


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## Mavash.

This would not be okay for me or my husband. However we readily admit to being jealous types. 

When I worked I did have close male friends however I did NOT hang out with them outside of work and rarely talked to them on the phone. I worked in a male dominated field and I shared an office with men early on in my career. The closest I came to hanging out with them was I did go out to lunch with them on occasion. That was just expected at the firms I worked at and I couldn't get out of it.

I did NOT pursue a friendship beyond work with any of these men. That was a boundary I didn't cross.


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## Maricha75

I think the key things to watch out for when in these situations:

- Does she hide any of the conversations?
-Is she completely open to you on everything? Aside from patient names, etc. that is.
-Does she make up excuses to talk to/see him?
-Does she spend more time outside work with him than with you?

Basically, it CAN work for SOME people. But I wouldn't be ok with my husband spending a lot of off time with an opposite sex work colleague/friend. That wouldn't work for us. 

You can look up signs of EAs and just keep them in mind. Don't hound her constantly about it, but if something doesn't feel right about the friendship, don't ignore the feeling.


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## In_The_Wind

I feel that you should reconsider this friendship although at the moment it might be nice and innocent it normally isnt a good idea for opposite sexs that are married to be friends with a single perrson come on this is normally how affairs start just be honest with your spouse and ask her how she would feel if you had a single female friend while she was working these 80 plus hours a week ?? and again this isnt going to be forever maybe a year or two ?? its just temporary also why cant she be friends with some of the other females ?? 

however its your life go with what you think you can handle and Good luck


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## Chris Taylor

"If he weren't a single man I'd have zero issues with this at all"

Don't fool yourself. Married or single, an emotional or physical affair is still possible. Nothing may be going on now, but it could certainly develop into something more.

Establish your boundaries now, without being controlling.


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## wiigirl

Maricha75 said:


> I think the key things to watch out for when in these situations:
> 
> - Does she hide any of the conversations?
> -Is she completely open to you on everything? Aside from patient names, etc. that is.
> -Does she make up excuses to talk to/see him?
> -Does she spend more time outside work with him than with you?
> 
> Basically, it CAN work for SOME people. But I wouldn't be ok with my husband spending a lot of off time with an opposite sex work colleague/friend. That wouldn't work for us.
> 
> You can look up signs of EAs and just keep them in mind. Don't hound her constantly about it, but if something doesn't feel right about the friendship, don't ignore the feeling.


This....hiding thing especially.








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TBT

Are all of her fellow residents male,and if not what's wrong with making female friends? Sounds like your gut is telling you to be concerned but you're trying to talk your way out of it.Right now,any free time not spent with you(which by your admission isn't very much)is spent with him.She's going to bond with him as she spends most of her time in a very stressful environment with him.Who will she start leaning on more? Btw,how often are these resident parties and do you attend? Hope things go the way you want,but I know personally I would be concerned to some degree.


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## Wyrd One

Maricha75 said:


> I think the key things to watch out for when in these situations:
> 
> - Does she hide any of the conversations?
> -Is she completely open to you on everything? Aside from patient names, etc. that is.
> -Does she make up excuses to talk to/see him?
> -Does she spend more time outside work with him than with you?
> 
> Basically, it CAN work for SOME people. But I wouldn't be ok with my husband spending a lot of off time with an opposite sex work colleague/friend. That wouldn't work for us.
> 
> You can look up signs of EAs and just keep them in mind. Don't hound her constantly about it, but if something doesn't feel right about the friendship, don't ignore the feeling.


She doesn't hide things from me that I'm aware of. She does text with him and unless I start snooping and giving into jealous behaviors I guess I don't *really* know what she's saying, but that's where trust comes in. I could easily let myself spiral into dark, sinister thoughts; "oh my god she got a text, it's probably him. Maybe they're secretly talking about me, etc.." but that's a psychotic way to live and would only serve to make me depressed and push her away.

She doesn't make up excuses to see him. She'll usually ask me if I mind if she meets him for coffee, and they'll hang out for an hour or two.

She definitely doesn't spend more time with him outside of work than me. She'll meet him for a coffee like 2 or three times a week so they can blow off some steam about work. It's incredibly stressful having people's lives in your hands and while I can offer some sympathy, he's a co-worker doing the same level of work and can understand what she's going through.

So it seems like the consensus is that every male/female friendship eventually ends up in romance or infidelity. Can it ever work? Does anyone have a healthy relationship with a friend of the opposite sex, or does that just not happen?


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## Wyrd One

TBT said:


> Are all of her fellow residents male,and if not what's wrong with making female friends? Sounds like your gut is telling you to be concerned but you're trying to talk your way out of it.Right now,any free time not spent with you(which by your admission isn't very much)is spent with him.She's going to bond with him as she spends most of her time in a very stressful environment with him.Who will she start leaning on more? Btw,how often are these resident parties and do you attend? Hope things go the way you want,but I know personally I would be concerned to some degree.


She has several female residents she works with, but they're just work friends. I have female work friends too, but they're not someone I would talk about things with. I guess she just didn't relate to her female residents as easily as she does him.

"Any free time not spent with me is spent with him" is definitely not true. If that were the case I'd obviously be worried. 

They're in different stages of different surgical fields, so she doesn't actually work directly with him at all. They will see each other occassionally in passing, but the only time she really sees him is when they go out for coffee.

I go with her to most resident events, but I was not at this particular one.


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## underwater2010

If you are uncomfortable with the "friendship" then you need to make sure she knows. Maybe set some ground rules ie hanging only at work, open email accounts, being able to view texts between the two of them. I would not be comfortable with the situation at all, even before the affair. 

If I am not included in coffee, dinners or lunches then that person is not a friend of our relationship.

I would start scheduling alot of time together with her and see how she reacts. Let us know. 

My husband had a EA with a female friend from HS. I was never even made aware that they were going for coffee, texting, emailing, chatting and sending naughty pics.

Also, as a woman my male coworkers and I do not go out alone for drinks and such. We also do not text each other unless it is about work. We do have alot of fun and talks while at work, but it is left at the door.


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## Maricha75

Have you ever met this guy? I don't mean at the resident events, but like once in awhile, go with her when they meet up for coffee? 

And, what I meant about the texting thing...I don't mean for you to be freaked out about every text lol. I mean if you wanted to see/use her phone at any given time, would she let you with no problem, or would she fight you on it?

Look, I'm not saying she is having an EA with the guy. I'm not even suggesting that it is headed that way. BUT, you asked about the line between friendship and EA. Well, the things we have said give clues to something being up. Again, that doesn't mean there is something going on between your wife and this friend of hers. 

I would suggest spontaneously suggesting you go along once in awhile tho. Her reaction to that could be an indicator as well. If she does anything/everything she can to keep you from going...I would wonder why.

For some people, OSF works. For some, it doesn't. I was one who used to think OSF was just fine. And then, both my husband and I had EAs. Since then, we do have SOME OSF, but not close friends, and even the ones who are opposite sex... we are BOTH friends with them. And, if there is a strange "vibe" about the friendships, they end. But that is OUR choice, OUR situation.


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## Wyrd One

Maricha75 said:


> Have you ever met this guy? I don't mean at the resident events, but like once in awhile, go with her when they meet up for coffee?
> 
> And, what I meant about the texting thing...I don't mean for you to be freaked out about every text lol. I mean if you wanted to see/use her phone at any given time, would she let you with no problem, or would she fight you on it?
> 
> Look, I'm not saying she is having an EA with the guy. I'm not even suggesting that it is headed that way. BUT, you asked about the line between friendship and EA. Well, the things we have said give clues to something being up. Again, that doesn't mean there is something going on between your wife and this friend of hers.
> 
> I would suggest spontaneously suggesting you go along once in awhile tho. Her reaction to that could be an indicator as well. If she does anything/everything she can to keep you from going...I would wonder why.
> 
> For some people, OSF works. For some, it doesn't. I was one who used to think OSF was just fine. And then, both my husband and I had EAs. Since then, we do have SOME OSF, but not close friends, and even the ones who are opposite sex... we are BOTH friends with them. And, if there is a strange "vibe" about the friendships, they end. But that is OUR choice, OUR situation.


Very soon after she met him she asked me to go to dinner to meet him and see who he was. She's been very open about that, she's not hiding him from me or anything. I never go for coffee with them because I don't like coffee.

I think she would let me view her phone, but would be insulted that I felt I needed to. Me asking if I can check out her text log with him is basically me saying "I know you told me nothing is going on but I don't believe you and I need to look at your text log before I'll believe you/trust you". That doesn't sound healthy to me.

The "me freaking out about every text" is kind of the way my brain wants to go. I have deep-seated jealousy issues that I never dealth with that makes this whole sitauation a lot more complicated. I need to be careful to differentiate between jealous fantasies I've concocted myself, and real, valid feelings. If I go with the jealous fantasies too often I will become a suspicious jerk and that's not going to be good for either of us.

I did suggest to her last night that maybe I should go with her a little more often, just to get to know this guy better and see their dynamic and all that.


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## donders

Wyrd One said:


> She doesn't hide things from me that I'm aware of.


Well, it naturally follows that you wouldn't be aware of things that are hidden from you. 



Wyrd One said:


> She does text with him and unless I start snooping and giving into jealous behaviors I guess I don't *really* know what she's saying, but that's where trust comes in.


You need to keep tabs on her given the likelihood that this could escalate to something more. You can never, ever trust another person completely, you never know what they're capable of. Sometimes people let themselves fall into something that they never intended to happen. 



Wyrd One said:


> I could easily let myself spiral into dark, sinister thoughts; "oh my god she got a text, it's probably him. Maybe they're secretly talking about me, etc.." but that's a psychotic way to live and would only serve to make me depressed and push her away.


It appears you are already having those thoughts. It's quite understandable and probably unavoidable.


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## Maricha75

Wyrd One said:


> Very soon after she met him she asked me to go to dinner to meet him and see who he was. She's been very open about that, she's not hiding him from me or anything. I never go for coffee with them because I don't like coffee.


Not liking coffee is just an excuse. But, it's good that she is open about this friendship.



Wyrd One said:


> I think she would let me view her phone, but would be insulted that I felt I needed to. Me asking if I can check out her text log with him is basically me saying "I know you told me nothing is going on but I don't believe you and I need to look at your text log before I'll believe you/trust you". That doesn't sound healthy to me.


I didn't say that you just say "I want to check your texts". What I meant was does she have it password protected? And, if she DOES, did she give the code to you? IDK, it seems that the things we are telling you, you seem to come up with excuses as to why you "can't" do it. 

My husband was in the early stages of an EA. I learned by accident. My son brought me his cell to log onto World of Warcraft for him. After doing that, I was curious. I had no reason, at that time, to snoop. Again, I was curious because he was texting a girl we BOTH knew. I had no issue with OSF at that time. But the texts I saw... there were a bunch missing and he NEVER deletes texts. Ever. There wasn't anything alarming, except he called her "beautiful"... but I hadn't heard that word from him in a LONG time. I confronted him, we agreed to be open in everything...and he told the OW about my finding the texts. How did I know that? A couple days later, I went in and picked up his phone. He tried to keep me from reading at first. I handed the phone back to him and said "that tells me what I wanted to know. You have something to hide."... He handed the phone right back to me. I read the texts. I was right. He was still calling her beautiful, sexy, and the text were full of sexual innuendo. So... I told him that was it. Her or me. And he dropped her immediately without a look back.

I don't check his texts all the time. I don't even ask for his phone. But the OPTION to look is there. And the OPTION for him to look is there as well...cell, email, everything. That's what matters, for us anyway. We CAN look if we choose.



Wyrd One said:


> The "me freaking out about every text" is kind of the way my brain wants to go. I have deep-seated jealousy issues that I never dealth with that makes this whole sitauation a lot more complicated. I need to be careful to differentiate between jealous fantasies I've concocted myself, and real, valid feelings. If I go with the jealous fantasies too often I will become a suspicious jerk and that's not going to be good for either of us.


Hmmm... with these jealousy issues, have you seen a therapist about them? If not, have you thought about it? It might be an option if you think this could possibly cause problems in your marriage.



Wyrd One said:


> I did suggest to her last night that maybe I should go with her a little more often, just to get to know this guy better and see their dynamic and all that.


What was her response to that?


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## Wyrd One

> It appears you are already having those thoughts. It's quite understandable and probably unavoidable.


I do have those thoughts. I've had those thoughts for the past 17 years because the first 2 girls I went out with and thought I loved were actually treating me terribly and using me, and walking all over me. I grew suspicious of them and for good reason. I snooped on them and found tons of evidence of deception. After those 2 relationships ended I never faced my jealousy and just tucked it away in the back of my brain so it could rear its ugly head at the first sign of anything that could remotely be interpreted as negative. 

My current wife, however, is not a deceptive, evil person. She is open and honest with me and I feel the most likely situation is that I'm projecting these past experiences onto her unfairly. She has not, in the past 10 years we've been together, demonstrated any reason to doubt her or be suspicious of her actions.



> You need to keep tabs on her given the likelihood that this could escalate to something more. You can never, ever trust another person completely, you never know what they're capable of. Sometimes people let themselves fall into something that they never intended to happen.


I think I'd rather choose trust. If she does fall out of love with me and leave me for this guy, which I honestly don't foresee happening, then she was going to do it whether I was trusting and happy, or suspicious and intrusive. 

Actually I feel like "keeping tabs on her" would more likely cause her to escalate things. Who wants to spend time at home with their husband that's constantly trying to control them, questioning who they were with, what was said, not trusting them or giving them any benefit of the doubt.

I always try to put myself in the reverse role. Say I had a female friend that's purely plutonic, couldn't dream of having a relationhsip with her, but every time I go home my wife is asking all these paranoid questions and generally feeling no self-worth, and never believeing anything I tell her, needing constant reassurance. That would definitely push me away from my wife. Not into the arms of this female friend, but I'd discover my wife is so paranoid I can't live my life under her constant vigil and doubt.


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## Wyrd One

Maricha75 said:


> I didn't say that you just say "I want to check your texts". What I meant was does she have it password protected? And, if she DOES, did she give the code to you?


Her phone is password protected because she's on the hospital's Exchange server, but the password is just our home phone number and she told me that the day her work applied it to her phone.


> My husband was in the early stages of an EA.... he called her "beautiful"... He tried to keep me from reading at first. I handed the phone back to him and said "that tells me what I wanted to know. So... I told him that was it. Her or me. And he dropped her immediately without a look back.


My jealousy compelled me to check her texts and there was never anything in there like that. It was all fairly innocuous stuff, which is why I'm leaning towards my concerns being jealousy-borne. 

I did ask her what if I felt very uncomfortable with her friendship and it truly bothered me, and she said she would drop him and cut off all contact because she loves and respects my feelings, but she would be confused because she truly sees no threat to our marriage there.


> I don't check his texts all the time. I don't even ask for his phone. But the OPTION to look is there. And the OPTION for him to look is there as well...cell, email, everything. That's what matters, for us anyway. We CAN look if we choose.


She knows I'm working through my jealousy and it's not going to just go away tomorrow. I'm working to establish some boundaries as to what I'm comfortable with and telling her I may be compelled to check her texts might be a good option to include.



> Hmmm... with these jealousy issues, have you seen a therapist about them? If not, have you thought about it? It might be an option if you think this could possibly cause problems in your marriage.


I have never even tried to deal with the jealousy until all of this started 2 weeks ago. Visiting a therapist has definitely crossed my mind. It's a big issue and I'm not certain it's something I can cure on my own just by thinking about it. It truly is a poisonous emotion.



> What was her response to [you coming along to coffee or dinner with them]?


She said that'd be great and said she thought if I got to know him better I'd probably feel a lot better about everything.


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## Maricha75

I think she's right that you should meet this guy. Seeing how they are together MAY alleviate some of your fears. The thing is, while you may trust HER, it doesn't mean that HE is trustworthy. This is why we advise erring on the side of caution. Ultimately, you will do what you feel is best for you and your marriage. As far as feeling "controlling" and all the other things you mentioned...you do realize that cheaters quite often say that about the spouse they are betraying, right? The betrayed spouse is controlling, as far as the cheater is concerned...but the reason they feel that way? Because they are not loyal!

Anyway, I wish you the best in this. I think you SHOULD see someone about the issues you have. But don't just keep absolute loose boundaries. Find boundaries that work for both of you. Go to coffee with them..invite the guy over for dinner or go out to dinner and invite him along. But definitely make yourself known (not that she never mentions you lol). And if something seems off in their interaction, tell your wife that it bothers you. Keep communication open.


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## Miss Taken

Maricha75 said:


> I think she's right that you should meet this guy. Seeing how they are together MAY alleviate some of your fears. The thing is, while you may trust HER, it doesn't mean that HE is trustworthy. This is why we advise erring on the side of caution. Ultimately, you will do what you feel is best for you and your marriage. As far as feeling "controlling" and all the other things you mentioned...you do realize that cheaters quite often say that about the spouse they are betraying, right? The betrayed spouse is controlling, as far as the cheater is concerned...but the reason they feel that way? Because they are not loyal!
> 
> Anyway, I wish you the best in this. I think you SHOULD see someone about the issues you have. But don't just keep absolute loose boundaries. Find boundaries that work for both of you. Go to coffee with them..invite the guy over for dinner or go out to dinner and invite him along. But definitely make yourself known (not that she never mentions you lol). And if something seems off in their interaction, tell your wife that it bothers you. Keep communication open.


:iagree:

I think you should try to befriend the friend as well. Go out for coffee for crying out loud. Drink tea, soda, water instead! 

I would be more comfortable if your wife did have more same-sex friends though. I'm not saying your wife is like this, but women who are incapable of developing friendships with other women are usually more than a little off. Same goes for men. If you can't get along with your own gender, there's usually a negative reason for it.


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## being the best me

When you are in a marriage you should be looking to spend as much time together and do things that the both of you mutually enjoy, especially considering that she work 80+hrs a week, were does she find the time to not be spending it with you but she can spend a few hours over cofee with the other man.

I personally belive there should be no oposite sex friends in a marriage especially single men, men only think about one thing (i am a man). In my marriage i have no female friends and i only talk to the wives of our mutual, friends of the marriage, friends.

Also i don't think you have jealousy issues being burnt in the past and you are only looking to protect your relationship with your wife, nothing wrong with that.


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## Wyrd One

Miss Taken said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think you should try to befriend the friend as well. Go out for coffee for crying out loud. Drink tea, soda, water instead!
> 
> I would be more comfortable if your wife did have more same-sex friends though. I'm not saying your wife is like this, but women who are incapable of developing friendships with other women are usually more than a little off. Same goes for men. If you can't get along with your own gender, there's usually a negative reason for it.


She's never been good at making friends. Her best friend in the world is her old college roommate, a female, that she used to spend all kinds of time with. But her friend moved away about 7 years ago and my wife has been esentially friendless since then. All she has had these last 7 years is 80+ hours of hard, stressful work every week, and then me. And while I'm great and all :smthumbup: I think adults need more than 1 person in their life. I know I would never want to give up my basketball or tennis teams. I wouldn't want to give up my two best friends that I've known since high school who live nearby. I have those friends in my life I can go hang out with, while she has had literally no one. Unfortunately she doesn't have time for outside activites like sports or clubs, which makes it all the harder for me to simply ask that she give up her new friend and go back to being, essentially, alone again.


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## Jellybeans

Chris Taylor said:


> Establish your boundaries now, without being controlling.


Advice on how he can do that?


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## Wyrd One

Jellybeans said:


> > Establish your boundaries now, without being controlling.
> Advice on how he can do that?


I think I need to do it without being *too* controlling, as any bonudary is establishing that "I am allowing you to do this, but I am not allowing you to do that."

I have been crafting a list today and I think I would like to ask her to respect the following boundaries:
- Just stick to going out to coffee with him. I'm not comfortable with them going to dinner alone together, or going to his apartment or our house when I'm not around.
- If she does want to have dinner then I should come along.
- While I'm working on my jealousy issues I would like to have the option to be able to ask to look at her phone, for piece of mind, even if the sub-text of that request is that I am not trusting her right now and I just need to see for myself.
- Don't discuss our relationship, or any marital concerns with him. That topic should be out of bounds.

Apparently he has a suicidal ex-girlfriend back in Spain that is coming to visit him at the end of the month. That is frequently the topic of their discussions as he is having a hard time dealing with that, as anyone would. They can discuss that all they want, but her talking about our marriage or issues she may be having with me feels like it's over the line.


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## Entropy3000

Per your other thread you have a history of not having good boundaries as it pertains to other men being weith you GF / wife :

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...alousy-will-ruin-my-marriage.html#post1056133

The bottom line is that this relationship she has started up with this guy is going to be part of what ultimately detroys your marriage. All PC stuff aside.

Some folks on here think a woman having a very close unmarried friend that they hang out with and drink with is ok. I call that dating and that is not acceptable to me. But considering your background of accomodating this stuff remember this:

If you always do what you do, you always get what you get. So while you are in a new relationship it seems you have not adjusted your own boundaries on what you will accept. So you are going to continue to get what you got in previous relaionships. This is especially the case here as she is alreasy distancing herself from you and striking up with an available man in the same line of work as she is.

I think you should strive for more one on one time with her and not the three of you. The longer this goes on the more of an emotional bond she will have with him. 



> I've talked with her about it, and she said if it truly bothers me she would drop all contact with him,


You are out of your ever loving mind if you do not take her up on this.
This is a TEST. One way or another. Saying this is ok is saying "go ahead and bond with this guy. I am too worried about appearing jealous, insecure and controlling to be the man that you really need me to be".

You can be assured that the other guy will be more decisive about what he wants from her. He is single. He is investing time in your wife. Her husband is afraid to intervene. Sounds like a free pass.




> My wife and I, married 10 years, have had some recent turmoil and it's driving me up the walls with worry.
> 
> Some back story:
> My first real girlfriend growing up was a long distance relationship. She was verbally abusive and didn't treat me very well. We went out for nine months and it wasn't great, but I was a 16 year old kid who thought he was in love.
> 
> Then I met a new girl at school, who lived much closer, and ended up breaking up with the first girl to go out with the second. This second girl is the root of my jealousy issues I believe.
> 
> The first month I was very happy with her. She seemed great compared to the first girl. Then we went to the Rocky Horror Picture Show together. It's a very "free love" experience there and I was just a nieve kid. She was kissing other people and ignoring me. That very night she met another guy she liked there and from that point forward she was trying to choose between him and me. This continued on for 2 more months and the cast of "other guys" rotated and grew and shrank. At one point she had 4 boyfriends she was trying to choose between. She strung me along for those 2 months, dangling the promise of us being exclusive together in front of me and then snatching it away, until I finally grew a little backbone and broke up with her. I kept a journal during this period of my life and the whole time I would sign off each entry with "but I love her so much".
> 
> At the end of the 3rd month immediately after I broke up with the 2nd girl, I met another girl, Crissy, and everything went from being dark and depressing to wonderful. She and I were happily together for 4.5 years, and we lived together for 2 of those. I thought everything was going great, but near the end I learned she had been drifting away from me for awhile. She met a guy at her work she really liked, and we were broken up before I knew what happened. To be fair she was only 15 and a half when we started dating and she'd never been with anyone else. It wasn't likely to last, I just wish the end hadn't been so abrupt.
> 
> I don't think I ever dealt with any of this. I moved so quickly from the awful situation with my 2nd girlfriend to the happy times with my 3rd that I just never really faced what I'd gone through I think. It's just been buried in some corner of my mind for 17 years.
> 
> My Current Story
> I was single for a year and a half after my last grilfriend broke up with me, which was a good thing for me I think. Then I met my current wife at the college book store where I worked. We hit it off, started dating, and have been together for 10.5 years now.
> 
> It was nothing but happyness for me. I could be myself and she loved me for it. I didn't have to put a lot of effort into things, we simply got along great and had a lot of fun together. We never really fought and on the rare occassions we did it was a reasoned discussion about things. Life was pure bliss for 10 years and I loved every minute of my time with her.
> 
> She's a surgical resident who is at work 80-90 hours a week, and while there she's making major decisions and can literally have people's lives in her hands. On the other hand I'm a programmer and I really have no conflict or turmoil in my life. Everything always seems to go my way and I loved it. Because of this difference she has matured quickly, and a lot more than I have, and she recently revealed she feels like this is causing us to grow apart a bit. She wanted to bring it up now so we could repair it before the gap gets to wide, which I definitely appreciate.
> 
> So there's that I'm contending with. On top of that, she recently had a party with her fellow residents while I was out of town, and the last person to leave was a guy named Louie. They were drinking and talking together late into the night and now she says she really connects with him and can talk to him easily. She hasn't really had any real friends in the area for the last 10 years. Her closest friend moved to DC and they talk on the phone every now and then, but she can't hang out with her. So now she has decided to invite Louie to be her new closest friend. They've started hanging out and texting and I find myself becomming incredibly worried about this new development.
> 
> The combination of her saying she feels we've grown apart a bit, plus her finding this new close male friend is truly scaring me. The fact that he's a single male just makes it a hundred times worse. If her new friend was a woman I would have zero concerns and be happy she has a friend in the area she can hang out with and talk to again. She has told me over and over again she has no romantic interest in him and he's just a close friend she can talk to about work and seafood and coffee and other things I don't share her interest in.
> 
> So I don't know what to do or think about all of this. On the one hand, she's an adult and has every right to have a friend, even a male friend. On the other, I feel like it's really weird that my wife is starting to hang out with and talk to another man.
> 
> She's trying to invite him to go out to a nice dinner with her this week, and I know I'm just going to be sitting at home alone, fuming, and letting my brain spiral into darker and darker scenarios, and by the time she gets home I'm probably going to be livid with her for things she likely didn't even think or do.
> 
> I need help. I need to know if this situation is normal for an adult couple, or if her starting to spend some of her very limited free time with another man is a bad sign.
> 
> I also need to get over this jealously because she's gone so much, and when I can't talk to her I just start to let my mind run wild and completely freak myself out. She has also pointed out that she feels a little smothered by me, that I'm too possessive. I can see that I think. I don't want to share her, I don't want her to have fun, interesting, deep conversations with another man. I don't even want her to have negative thoughts about me, but I can't control her, I don't own her, and it's not fair for me to restrict her or impose my will upon her too much. Then again, I don't want to be a doormat again like my previous relationship and just let her take advantage of me.
> 
> One good thing that's come of this is that I've never been good at dealing with confrontation. In the past if my wife told me negative things, or was mad, I would just retreat into my shell, clam up, and just be sad, like a scolded little puppy. I'm getting better now though. This whole situation is forcing me to face this head on and we've spent nearly every night of the past 2 weeks having adult conversations about what's happening and how we might fix it. I just don't know if we can fix this and cure my jealousy, or if I need more help. I don't really have anyone to talk to about all of this except her.
> 
> So thank you if you've taken the time to read all of that. If you have any words of wisdom I sure could use them right now. I'm so scared I'm going to lose the love of my life, I want to do whatever I can to make things okay again. I want to go back to being happy with her again, but maybe that time of our life/relationship is gone forever?


----------



## Entropy3000

Wyrd One said:


> I think I need to do it without being *too* controlling, as any bonudary is establishing that "I am allowing you to do this, but I am not allowing you to do that."
> 
> I have been crafting a list today and I think I would like to ask her to respect the following boundaries:
> - Just stick to going out to coffee with him. I'm not comfortable with them going to dinner alone together, or going to his apartment or our house when I'm not around.
> - If she does want to have dinner then I should come along.
> - While I'm working on my jealousy issues I would like to have the option to be able to ask to look at her phone, for piece of mind, even if the sub-text of that request is that I am not trusting her right now and I just need to see for myself.
> - Don't discuss our relationship, or any marital concerns with him. That topic should be out of bounds.
> 
> Apparently he has a suicidal ex-girlfriend back in Spain that is coming to visit him at the end of the month. That is frequently the topic of their discussions as he is having a hard time dealing with that, as anyone would. They can discuss that all they want, but her talking about our marriage or issues she may be having with me feels like it's over the line.


Why do you continuously say you have jealousy issues when in reality you do not listen to your gut? In the past you have not listened to your feelings and instead let disaster happen. You are on that road now.

The jealousy issue you have is not being confident in yourself and not having enough self esteem to have good boundaries. This looks very weak to a woman.

A man who has no fear about being a man and not allowing other men to take their mate from them is strong. They do not look at themselves as being jealous. They look at themselves as having value.


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## Entropy3000

Jellybeans said:


> Advice on how he can do that?


IF they had done His Needs Her Needs and had done the boundary setting in the first place maybe this situation would have not started. 

Now he is trying to put the genie back in the bottle ... again. 

She works a lot of hours. Therefore her "free" time needs to be centered around her husband. Not this other guy. She can befriend a female that she has thing in common. Yes she can. She offered to cut the guy loose. 

For some unexplained reason the OP wants this other guy in his wifes life. He is afraid to establish his own boundaries for fear of ... something.


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## MaritimeGuy

I'm of the camp married people can have friends of the opposite sex. If either one of a couple can't be trusted around single people of the opposite sex there is something wrong. 

I agree with joining her and this friend from time to time. Get to know him and let him get to know you. I would only be concerned if she starts trying to keep things about him from you.


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## Ten_year_hubby

The question you really want answered is "How long does it take before a close male-female relationship becomes an EA?"

The answer is "From now until you have your next really big disagreement".

The problem here is that your wife's new friendship is a time bomb waiting to go off. No one can say they never have marital disagreements. It is natural to discuss your problems with a close friend and confidant. When this person is the opposite sex, they sympathize like a friend should and now they look more attractive than one's spouse. A little chemistry, a little kiss and next thing you know the landscape is littered with collateral damage. That's why so many on this forum are so against these relationships from the git go


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## jfv

Wyrd One said:


> She has several female residents she works with, but they're just work friends. I have female work friends too, but they're not someone I would talk about things with. *I guess she just didn't relate to her female residents as easily as she does him*.
> 
> "Any free time not spent with me is spent with him" is definitely not true. If that were the case I'd obviously be worried.
> 
> They're in different stages of different surgical fields, so she doesn't actually work directly with him at all. They will see each other occassionally in passing, but the only time she really sees him is when they go out for coffee.
> 
> *I go with her to most resident events, but I was not at this particular one*.


The parts in bold made my hair stand up. Why would she relate to him easier than the females unless there was some sort of connection between them? And the only type of connection there is in this situation is the kind that will lead to the fracturing of your relationship. By the way, do you think its a coincidence that she made this connection at one of the parties you didn't attend with her?. I'm not saying this was planned or that she was conciously seeking it, but what i am saying is that she seems to be ripe for something inappropriate to develop at some point and you are making yourself a non factor when in fact you should be the biggest [email protected] blocker in her life. Start being more Alpha. (read: TERRITORIAL) Establish a precedent. Take her up on her offer to end the friendship. oh yeah and listen to Entropy.


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## Shaggy

Red alert red alert.

You need to be worried here, not out of jealousy but out of fear.

He's in the same situation as her-long hours, not a lot of time for a social life, common stress etc.

She is pretty much his perfect woman. He's got blood in his veins, and he will continue to pursue her. He's already pursuing her: at the party he spent effort chatting her up, showing how much they have in common etc. he's freed up his limited social time to chat, text, meet up with her.

Don't be naive, he is very much pursuing her.

He needs to go.


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## jfv

Shaggy said:


> Red alert red alert.
> 
> You need to be worried here, not out of jealousy but out of fear.
> 
> He's in the same situation as her-long hours, not a lot of time for a social life, common stress etc.
> 
> She is pretty much his perfect woman. He's got blood in his veins, and he will continue to pursue her. He's already pursuing her: at the party he spent effort chatting her up, showing how much they have in common etc. he's freed up his limited social time to chat, text, meet up with her.
> 
> Don't be naive, he is very much pursuing her.
> 
> He needs to go.


Thats right. The fact that she was alone at the party was his opportunity to game her. Have no doubt that he plans to make the most of his time with her. He is your competition. Act like it.


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## Entropy3000

Ten_year_hubby said:


> The question you really want answered is "How long does it take before a close male-female relationship becomes an EA?"
> 
> The answer is "From now until you have your next really big disagreement".
> 
> The problem here is that your wife's new friendship is a time bomb waiting to go off. No one can say they never have marital disagreements. It is natural to discuss your problems with a close friend and confidant. When this person is the opposite sex, they sympathize like a friend should and now they look more attractive than one's spouse. A little chemistry, a little kiss and next thing you know the landscape is littered with collateral damage. That's why so many on this forum are so against these relationships from the git go


There is a lot of truth in what you say about the disagreement, BUT it does not wait for that. That is just a critical point where things can get crazy real fast. The groundwork is done prior to that.

The thing is that we do love our friends. This is normal. They provide is with oxytocin. We care about them. We are emotionally binded to them. If we spend time with them we grow close rand closer and closer. You ac watch people bond. You can tell yourself this feel wrong but everything is innocent. Yet it is the innocent time that builds the affair.

The thing is that to the spouses, there is nothing inappropriate. They are just friends. It "feels" ok. In fact it feels great. They cannot wait to chat with each other. To see the other smile. It is awesome.
Outsiders can see it though for what it is becoming.

So now add to this the stresses of working with someone. That makes people bond like rabbits I mean like crazy. It is them against the world. They can really communicate with each other. The stress and time together really brings them close. Then add to that meeting each other outside of work and drinking and then being alone together. What a c0cktail for an affair. Work place affairs are the most common.


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## Maricha75

Wyrd One said:


> I think I need to do it without being *too* controlling, as any bonudary is establishing that "I am allowing you to do this, but I am not allowing you to do that."
> 
> I have been crafting a list today and I think I would like to ask her to respect the following boundaries:
> - Just stick to going out to coffee with him. I'm not comfortable with them going to dinner alone together, or going to his apartment or our house when I'm not around.
> - If she does want to have dinner then I should come along.
> - While I'm working on my jealousy issues I would like to have the option to be able to ask to look at her phone, for piece of mind, even if the sub-text of that request is that I am not trusting her right now and I just need to see for myself.
> - Don't discuss our relationship, or any marital concerns with him. That topic should be out of bounds.
> 
> *Apparently he has a suicidal ex-girlfriend back in Spain that is coming to visit him at the end of the month. That is frequently the topic of their discussions as he is having a hard time dealing with that, as anyone would. They can discuss that all they want, but her talking about our marriage or issues she may be having with me feels like it's over the line*.


Sigh.... apparently, you don't realize that this opens it up for her to say "well, with my husband and I...." and it slips out EVEN WHEN YOU SAY NOT TO DISCUSS THE MARRIAGE! Had I read your previous thread, I would be saying the same things Entropy is saying.


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## Shaggy

#1 way to worm your way in with a married coworker... Could I talk to you about my relationship with my SO, followed soon after by, gee, if only my SO was as easy to talk to and saw things as clearly as you, your SO must be so grateful to have you....


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## Maricha75

shaggy said:


> #1 way to worm your way in with a married coworker... Could i talk to you about my relationship with my so, followed soon after by, gee, if only my so was as easy to talk to and saw things as clearly as you, your so must be so grateful to have you....


bingo!!


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## Entropy3000

Shaggy said:


> #1 way to worm your way in with a married coworker... Could I talk to you about my relationship with my SO, followed soon after by, gee, if only my SO was as easy to talk to and saw things as clearly as you, your SO must be so grateful to have you....


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## costa200

Entropy3000 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


Got to get myself one of those T-shirts...

To the OP. Your biology just told you what is going on. Now your upper brain stem must decide what to do. But i'm telling you mate, you go with that politically correct emasculating BS and you have a countdown clock clicking until you return to the board to post in the infidelity section.


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## LastUnicorn

Wyrd One said:


> She has several female residents she works with, but they're just work friends. I have female work friends too, but they're not someone I would talk about things with. I guess she just didn't relate to her female residents as easily as she does him.
> 
> "Any free time not spent with me is spent with him" is definitely not true. If that were the case I'd obviously be worried.
> 
> They're in different stages of different surgical fields, so she doesn't actually work directly with him at all. They will see each other occassionally in passing, but the only time she really sees him is when they go out for coffee.
> 
> I go with her to most resident events, but I was not at this particular one.


She doesn't work with him at all in the same field, so they don't really have a big common area of talk here. She does have work girlfriends but chooses not to deepen any of these friendships. He has a relationship in trouble and asking for her advice and shoulder to snuggle.
Why do you suppose they bonded so quickly when they first met? Because whether they admitted it or not, they are attracted to each other. 

I bet if this continues it won't be long before she is hearing "oh why can't my stbxgf be more like you? You are wonderful!" Her ego will be stoked, he's just a friend, a very good friend, exchanging hugs and compliments is OK right? 

Nothing good will come from this. If you want to make sure this stays in the friend department you need to be there.


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## MaritimeGuy

Again I'm in the minority here but I see nothing wrong with your wife having male friends. The bottom line is either you can trust her or you can't. No amount of temptation will steal her away from you unless she allows it to. 

One of the first steps people in dysfunctional relationships take is to seperate their spouse/partner from family and friends in order to isolate them and remove support systems. I don't think this is healthy. 

My position is you stay fully engaged with your spouse at all times. Make sure they know you are interested in and desire them. Get to know their friends and what is going on in their lives. At the same time make it clear you respect and trust them. Self confidence is very attractive.


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## Entropy3000

MaritimeGuy said:


> Again I'm in the minority here but I see nothing wrong with your wife having male friends. The bottom line is either you can trust her or you can't. No amount of temptation will steal her away from you unless she allows it to.
> 
> One of the first steps people in dysfunctional relationships take is to seperate their spouse/partner from family and friends in order to isolate them and remove support systems. I don't think this is healthy.
> 
> My position is you stay fully engaged with your spouse at all times. Make sure they know you are interested in and desire them. Get to know their friends and what is going on in their lives. At the same time make it clear you respect and trust them. Self confidence is very attractive.


Marriage is based on Love and Respect. Trust is a by-product. For some reason it is very trendy to attack a spouse if they are uncomfortable with their spouses extramarital relationships.

Your position totally ignores bonding and the resultant EAs. It does not take into account the damage done to the primary relationship.

She should indeed trust her husband that he sees this as a problem. So I am turning your trust comment around. In a true partnership, each partner needs to trust the other as they are looking out for the marriage. We also trust our partner to not get into these situations.

To just blindly trust is ambivalent and naive at best. It shows a total lack of understanding of the male / female mechanisms for bonding.

If the marriage is the #1 priority then these situations can be readily handled. This is a boundary issue. 

When your spouse puts themselves and the marriage at risk by acting single, drinking and hanging out with OSFs they are effectively dating other people and NOT putting the marriage first.

So again, the attacking of spouses for protecting their marriage is counter-productive to monogamous marriage. There seems to be some aganda here, by those wishing to bash people who love their spouse by calling them jealous, insecure and controlling. 

Some folks are ok with spouses dating others. It is one thing to have OSFs, it is another to have close OSFs where the spouse is effectively dating the other person. Yes, hanging out, sharing intimacies however innocent appearing, drinking and whatever is dating. This is energy and intimacy not shared with the spouse. That is a level of unfaithfulness. A level of emotional if not physical cheating.

Obviously the answer is that he cannot trust her not to bond with the OSF. To say that someone needs to trust their spouse while they hangout and drink with them alone is absurd at best. At least in a monogamous relationship.

I very much respect thos in ant LTR. However, marriage is a level of commitment much deeper IMO. 

You are certainly entailed to your opinion and to state it openly.


----------



## Entropy3000

LastUnicorn said:


> She doesn't work with him at all in the same field, so they don't really have a big common area of talk here. She does have work girlfriends but chooses not to deepen any of these friendships. He has a relationship in trouble and asking for her advice and shoulder to snuggle.
> Why do you suppose they bonded so quickly when they first met? Because whether they admitted it or not, they are attracted to each other.
> 
> I bet if this continues it won't be long before she is hearing "oh why can't my stbxgf be more like you? You are wonderful!" Her ego will be stoked, he's just a friend, a very good friend, exchanging hugs and compliments is OK right?
> 
> Nothing good will come from this. If you want to make sure this stays in the friend department you need to be there.


They work in different stages of the surgical field so they mat very welll have a lot in common and while they may not work with each other daily their work seems to have brought them together. No? 

He is a progammer and she works long hours in the medical field. I understand the work get togethers even if it takes away form marital time. However, her drinking and being alone with this other guy and bonding with him is a RED FLAG. This alone time was when the OP was out of town. So who knows what really happened. Assuming they just bonded it was still very inappropriate at the least. 

It is unclear where this alone time was. Was it at a bar or was it at her home? Trust me on this if my wife or I ever entertained an OSF late at night alone in our home while the other was on a trip it would be a deal breaker for me. Would my wife divorce me over this? Possibly. I do not wish to find out. It would not be faithful no matter what occured.
Years ago my wife was none too pleased when she found out for a two week period I was working late at night in the lab with a young female college coed. You know we just worked but I can tell you we did some bonding too. Naively so. It is what men and women do. HELLO!!!


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## Entropy3000

> *The combination of her saying she feels we've grown apart a bit, plus her finding this new close male friend is truly scaring me. The fact that he's a single male just makes it a hundred times worse.* If her new friend was a woman I would have zero concerns and be happy she has a friend in the area she can hang out with and talk to again. She has told me over and over again she has no romantic interest in him and he's just a close friend she can talk to about work and seafood and coffee and other things I don't share her interest in.
> 
> So I don't know what to do or think about all of this. On the one hand, she's an adult and has every right to have a friend, even a male friend. On the other, *I feel like it's really weird that my wife is starting to hang out with and talk to another man.*
> 
> *She's trying to invite him to go out to a nice dinner with her this week, and I know I'm just going to be sitting at home alone,* fuming, and letting my brain spiral into darker and darker scenarios, and by the time she gets home I'm probably going to be livid with her for things she likely didn't even think or do.


Seems like a problem to me. I would say that the OP has a history of conflict avoidance and too much blind trust even though his gut is sounding an alarm.


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## Entropy3000

I was talking with my wife this past weekend about this topic. It was brought on by a lady she works with admitting to them she had been the OW in a relationship for many years. She was this guys close friend.

So many if not most women think in terms of friend zoning guys and so on. Many of us guys insist that while a guy may not push for sex he is basically available for it if the situation arises. Whether he indulges or not is indeed regulated by his other commitments and character and so on.

At first she was not so sure about that and then I asked her. Of all her BFs and just male friends she had before we married, how many would have accepted any sex offerred. She thought about it for a bit. And said she was pretty sure that all of them would have been open to have sex with her. Then she said. Ok I see your point.

I mean a guy can have many female friends. He can offer to have sex with them. Some will and some will not. But to be sure men will not invest time in a woman they do not find attractive one way or another. They are there for those women. if the women have probelms with their significant other those guys are there. Waiting and willing to comfort her. So this is a factor when one allows their spouse to date other people.


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## costa200

> So I don't know what to do or think about all of this. On the one hand, she's an adult and has every right to have a friend, even a male friend.


You're missing a side here. You are also in your right to not like it. And express it. And if she ignores your discomfort it is also your right to up the stakes. If she places this boy friend in front of her marriage then you know all you need to know.


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## Entropy3000

costa200 said:


> You're missing a side here. You are also in your right to not like it. And express it. And if she ignores your discomfort it is also your right to up the stakes. If she places this boy friend in front of her marriage then you know all you need to know.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is called a marriage. This is why I like the Policy Of Joint Agreement on these things.

The fact that she indocated she would cut the guy loose and he argues against that with himself is very bothersome to the well being of his marriage.

Now dod she volunteert this knowing he would not grab it? Idunno.

I see this as a fitness test at the least and he is failing it.

Some women see this as a man not loving them enough. Others that their man shrinks from their side when another man approaches. Not a good thing.


----------



## hello86

Wyrd One said:


> My wife is a surgical resident and works probably 80+ hours a week.  Her only friend, her roomate from college, moved to DC years ago. They still talk on the phone every now and then, but aside from her the only other person in my wife's life that is not a work acquaintance, is me. She's literally always either at work or home, and once in awhile when she has a day off we'll go out to eat or play some tennis together, but she's been fairly limited in what she can do and has complained about feeling a bit isolated in her life right now.
> 
> About two weeks ago she had a party with some of her fellow residents and got to talking to one of her male coworkers. She found that they got along well and they can vent about work, and talk about coffee and she's has decided to make him a new friend in her life. So now they've started hanging out more and are texting and going out for coffee, and having read a lot about EAs lately I wanted to know what I should be watching out for here, or should I be actively watching at all, maybe that's too paranoid?
> 
> I do have trust and jealousy issues from a past relationship that I never really dealt with, and this new friendship is bringing a lot of that back up in me. I need to figure out whether I'm worrying needlessly, he's just a friend who happens to be male, or if she's unconciously seeking out his company because I'm lacking in some important way.
> 
> I've talked with her about it, and she said if it truly bothers me she would drop all contact with him, which I appreciate, but that she would feel isolated again with no friends in the area. I don't feel like I can ask that of her. She said I'm a wonderful part of her life that she values greatly, but at the same time I can't expect to be all things to her to the point where she doesn't need any other friends. We have a great relationship and get along so well, but that doesn't mean she doesn't need contact with other people.
> 
> If he weren't a single man I'd have zero issues with this at all, so I don't think there's any *real* need to be concerned beyond my own possesiveness and jealousy, but I just wanted a sanity check I guess.


Would she have issues with you all hanging out together. If she does I would think something fishy is going on. I am a jealous person too and I would worry about this new friend becoming someone she would be with if you 2 ever are in a fight. People need someone to talk to but if she is ever angry at you and withdraws herself from your situation only to spend time with "her friend" then things can shift fast.


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## ajb3313

I've never liked that line in the sand where people in committed relationships aren't allowed to make new friends of the opposite gender. I've always felt like if you feel an obligation to tell your partner who they can and cannot be friends with, then you have much bigger problems. Also, it's healthy for people to have friends. Personally, my job is one that's very difficult to explain to other people, so there are times when I need to vent but can only do so with a co-worker who understands the situation. It sounds like maybe your wife is in a similar boat. But I can certainly understand why people go down that route.

Having said that, it also sounds like your wife has made it a point to be transparent with you. I certainly think working 80 hours a week and still finding an hour or two at a clip two or three times per week to hang out with this guy is a bit much though. I mean, that's a lot to hang out with a female friend given the relative amount of free time she has to work with. I'd also be wary that, if they're hanging out that much, things could progress quickly (if they are to progress at all). For now though, you'd seem to have very little to worry about. If she's offered you to come along with them and is honest that she's going out with him, then she's probably not hiding too much. Not only that, but because she's been so open with you about it, it seems like you could certainly broach the subject with her again. Jealousy -- or whatever you want to call how you feel -- aren't things that can be controlled. No one has ever chosen to be jealous.


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## Entropy3000

I mean who hangs out with opposite sex friends without their spouse? Really? Why? How is this justified? I am talking about alone time.

Is this an age thing? Is this a throwback to being in college and hanging out with friends? 

Do people who have been married for a while and have raised children hang out with OSFs? Alone? And drink with them? While their spouse is on a trip?

Huh? Who thinks this is ok?


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## The Middleman

Your jealousy is not unjustified, it's a defense mechanism. I think your past experiences have actually taught you something about relationships and human behavior; don't discount your gut. I suggest that you AND she read "Not Just Friends" together and discuss the book and then you two should define clear bounderies if you are going to allow this "friendship" to continue.

Having said that, I don't believe opposite sex friends have any place in a marriage. If it were my wife, I would ask her to end the relationship. Absolutely no good can come from it.


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## hello86

Take a second and stop analyzing your wife and analyze the guy. Put yourself in his shoes.

He's single right? What single guy really likes spending all of his free time with a married woman? Shouldn't he be putting time into finding his own relationship? I'm willing to bet that when/if he finds a relationship of his own he'll either drop your wife completely (because his new girl will probably think its weird) or at the very least he'll stop hanging out with her as much because he'll be investing so much time into his own relationship.

In my mind its a lose lose for the both of you. If his intensions are bad you lose and if he really just wants to be friends with your wife she'll lose when he is no longer able to spend all that time with her.


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## Entropy3000

hello86 said:


> Take a second and stop analyzing your wife and analyze the guy. Put yourself in his shoes.
> 
> He's single right? What single guy really likes spending all of his free time with a married woman? Shouldn't he be putting time into finding his own relationship? I'm willing to bet that when/if he finds a relationship of his own he'll either drop your wife completely (because his new girl will probably think its weird) or at the very least he'll stop hanging out with her as much because he'll be investing so much time into his own relationship.
> 
> In my mind its a lose lose for the both of you. If his intensions are bad you lose and if he really just wants to be friends with your wife she'll lose when he is no longer able to spend all that time with her.


Indeed a single guy like this IS investing time in his wife. This is a huge red flag. This is NOT a situation that the OP should feel good about.

Do I think he will eventually dump the wife. Perhaps. But after he has had a sexual realtionship with her. He is interested or he would not put in the time.


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## MaritimeGuy

I believe that if the only way you can trust your partner is to eliminate opportunities for them to cheat you are married to the wrong person. I believe you work at having a relationship that even when presented with an opportunity to cheat your partner will choose not to.

I personally have no problem with my partner having male friends. She will have coffee with them when I'm not there. She doesn't hide it from me. I don't worry myself about it. She knows if she ever crossed the line with anyone and I found out about it she would be out the door so fast it would make her head spin. 

I was cheated on once before but I refuse to let that define me. It was a failure on my ex's part not mine. Yes there were aspects of the marriage I could have and should have done better but that doesn't make me responsible for the affair. 

I do think there's a fine line between trust and complacency. It's not always an easy one to manouevre and can be misinterpreted. I agree with the others in that if you're perceived as being complacent your partner may feel justified in crossing the line. By the same token they will resent not being trusted. I think that's the issue and each of us will deal with it in a different way. The bottom line is communication is key. You and your partner need to be in agreement on these issues...preferrably before you engage in a committed relationship.


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## MrK

Wyrd One said:


> - Just stick to going out to coffee with him. I'm not comfortable with them going to dinner alone together, or going to his apartment or our house when I'm not around.


I don't know where the line is, but this is WAY past it. And somewhere you said she knows you are working on your jealousy issues. She is pushing that for all it's worth. She's going to play that card BIG TIME when there's an overnight weekend event that they both want to go to. "Don't worry, there are two beds in the room. You've REALLY got to get over those jealousy issues we talked about. Now where is that nighty I bought..."


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## Decorum

I cant tell you the number of times (here onTAM) that an ea/pa begin with a caring wife helping a single guy trying to deal with a relationship.

IMO opposite sex friends should never proceed from casual to intimate (non romantic) friendship, it a crossd boundry and the lines become less clear after that.

By the time you SEE the signs it is aleady a BIG problem!!

Many wifes in an ea/pa try to get their husband to "hang" with their affair partner it gives them more cover, not saying that is the case here, just dont want you to think there is ANY security in that, it can still go ea/pa!

You insecurities may keep you from seeing REAL red flags!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

There is no line. There should be a wall.

My husband and I made an agreement early in our marriage that there was to be no friendships of the opposite sex outside of work hours.

This does not include the once a year going away group parties or the annual Christmas party. This includes email, phone calls, texts, outside of work and work hours. 

It's worked out well for both of us in the last 12 years.


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## Decorum

IILWMH above has it right!
You are making a list of guidlines because you recognize the danger, but you dont want to look controling and your insecurities make your doubt your own judgment.

Your wife knows she is at least close to the line. Because she is being so careful, if this goes ea/ pa it will happen right under your nose.

If she knows it or not they are in the early stages of dating!

Ask her to cut off all non work contact with him ( as she also offered)
If she baulks, you already have a bigger problem, check back here for more help at that point.

This is not your problem (dont buy that) , trust your gut i think it is right so far.

Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

As suggested above read the book Not Just Friends
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy

Wyrd One said:


> I've talked with her about it, and she said if it truly bothers me she would drop all contact with him, which I appreciate, but that she would feel isolated again with no friends in the area. I don't feel like I can ask that of her. She said I'm a wonderful part of her life that she values greatly, but at the same time I can't expect to be all things to her to the point where she doesn't need any other friends. We have a great relationship and get along so well, but that doesn't mean she doesn't need contact with other people.


 Every emotional affair (EA) begins as them just being friends. In almost every case the spouse is given the chance early on to end it but does not because they do not want to be jealous or controlling. Once it does become an EA and they do ask the spouse to end it, it is often too late. Read the book "Not Just Friends" and do this today.

As for you wife needing this other man (OM) because she has no other friends, that is pure bull. Other women are at her work and she has chosen not to make the effort to be their friend. These women are not trying to get into her pants and thus it requires real effort for friendship with them that a man that is trying to get into her pants does not.

Bottom line, end the friendship right now while you still can. You will regret not doing this while you still have the option.


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## Jellybeans

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> There is no line. There should be a wall.


:iagree:


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## Gunthar

Jellybeans said:


> :iagree:


I doubly agree after seeing this type of thing happen firsthand...

Maybe should be a wall with a moat!


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## Wyrd One

I'm back with an update on the situation.

You bastards were right. I didn't like what I was reading, didn't want to accept it, and stopped coming to the site since it was making me extremely anxious. 

Shortly after my last post she told me she thought what would be best for us would be a separation. We've been working towards that for the past month or so, she spends most nights looking for an apartment to move into, and we're transitioning all of our accounts over to me and the house I will be keeping.

As for the "friend"... after several comments hinting at it, she did finally admit she liked this guy as more than a friend. She confessed this to him, and he said in no uncertain terms that he does not feel the same way about her. He would be her friend but wants nothing more. 

I confirmed this by checking her text messages. She would often text him and he simply wouldn't reply. I think she was simply coming on too strong when he wasn't interested.

Has anyone read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy"? That book describes me almost perfectly. I ended up wrapping myself, my indentity, and my strength into her so tightly that I pushed her away. She said she felt smothered, like I needed her to be happy or I couldn't be happy. I wasn't being the man she needed at all, I was just her caretaker and support system and she told me she feels like she has fallen out of love with me. Then she meets this new guy who has his own strength, opinions, and isn't afraid to upset her and she just jumped at it.

I think it's great that he's rejected her. She rejected me, he rejected her, and now she's going to move into her own apartment and be utterly alone. That's what she wanted, and now she's getting it in spades. 

In the meantime I'm trying to find my own "self" again. Rebuild so I can stand on my own two feet without havign to lean on her anymore. I've been seeing a therapist for nearly two months and that's helping a lot. The book I mentioned is amazing and is causing me to ask myself questions I've been afraid to answer for a very long time. It's scary how well the book describes why I do what I do.

It's going to take a long time, and it's going to be hard and lonely, but I think I'm on the right path now. I had an amazing 10 years with my wife, but that time is over now and I have to let go. That will come with time too I think. 

Thanks for your frank and honest answers, even if I wasn't ready to hear them. I just couldn't believe, (refused to believe), that she could simply fall out of love with me and be attracted to this European douche who carries a man-purse.


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## tom67

Karma bus coming!


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## moco82

If I get jealous, I know jealousy is my issue, not my partner's. If I can't deal with her having male friends, I should move on.


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## fetishwife

I would never let me wife go out alone with a male unless it was clearly work related and required for work and during work hours...or a VERY young man or VERY old man....(like 18 or less or 75 or more !!!!)

..(other than something like when she has interviewed a high school student for a college application or something along those lines...).


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## costa200

> You bastards were right. I didn't like what I was reading, didn't want to accept it, and stopped coming to the site since it was making me extremely anxious.
Click to expand...

Usually plays out that way. I think we are all sorry to have been correct. Stay strong dude...



> that she could simply fall out of love with me and be attracted to this European douche who carries a man-purse.


That's why he rejected her... His interests are probably more hmmm... manly...


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## fetishwife

Ok totally NON PC post...

I read the whole thread...really sorry about this situation...

Listen....get away from females like this...! Give me a break...80 hour a week surgical resident! She has issues to start! UGH...how can a woman like that emotionally and sexually support her man anyway?

Get yourself a nice submissive woman and practice changing from Mr Nice Guy into Mr Alpha stand up for yourself guy ....and bang away at her until her heart bursts with passion.

In your case, you deserve it!


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## moco82

Amen! Kinder, Küche, Kirche.


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## barcafan

Sucks that you are going through this, I wish you well.

Don't ever make an argument based on trust again. The only person you should trust is yourself. Even that one can be debatable sometimes. The trick is to let em fight for your trust but never let them have it...

Hope you find a new good woman.


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## Decorum

Wyred One,
Im sorry to hear that, I hope you stick around here through this.

Yes the NMMNG book is one we recomend all the time.
Also the Married Mans Sex Life (MMSL) is a must read, its mis-named its not about sex its about staying attractive to a woman after settling down.

Imo a seperation is just an opportunity for a spouse to sleep aroung without letting you go, please dont agree to that, if she will not stay in the relationship to work on it, divorce her!

Dont be a support to her, if she moves out, emotionally detatch and go dark on her, let the lawyers do your talking, or talk business only in a non emotional way.

If you havent done so go to the coping with infidelity section and read the newbie thread, you must kearn about the 180 to get past this nice guy status.

I hope you will follow through on these things and work on yourself.

I wish you well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround

Sorry that you are in this position Wyrd. And I hope you find good resolution.

I have some thoughts that might not help you now, but might help you and others later.

As far as husband and wife going out with others, I also think that it should not be a threesome. I can think back to some problem women with whom my exH and I would go out with. Now I'm wondering what on earth was I thinking. If my partner is going to have a female friend, then the only way we would go out with her is to insist on a 4th person and preferably a guy.

The other issue with OSFs that lead to inappropriate relationship then to EA, is that even if you can trust your spouse, you can't trust that third party. They may have seriously fallen for your spouse or that may not have, but when the sh!t hits the fan, given all the inappropriate activity that has gone on, it's easy for them to feel justified that your spouse has led them on.

And of course, where does that leave you? I remember my fiancé saying that he felt that he led on his EA when she accused him of -- well, leading her on. I asked him, did you ever think about how you were leading me on?

Also, when your partner makes offers, take them. The last few text messages that they ever exchanged, he told me he would respond any way I wanted him to. I took the offer because of course, if I didn't like the way he responded, how could I be mad at him then.

Also, Wyrd, do not put up with women who insist that they cannot make women friends. Just as I stopped putting up with my fiancé claiming he had no other friends in this city but his EA and their friend in common. I told him to go out and make some new friends.

There are a lot of women who are medical doctors now; a lot of professional societies for them; and other special interest groups. Moreover, IMO, it's not a satisfying social life to be dependent on just one friend.

Good luck with your future relationships.


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## t_hopper_2012

Wyrd One,

I'm very, very sorry to hear that you and your wife have reached this state. 

As you consider moving forward, do you see any chance of R? If not, what thought have you given to financial arrangements?

Your wife is a surgical resident - this means she's been through 4+ years of medical school and any number of years of low-paying residency. During these years, have you been the primary financial support? Also, isn't it interesting that now, given that she's much closer to the $$$ payoff of being a surgeon, she has decided she can live without you? You might want to consider talking to a lawyer about what you might be able to expect in the way of financial compensation for your years of support as she trained for a high-paying career.

You can look up upon this research as another step in your process of moving away from being the needy, Mr. Nice Guy.


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## Wyrd One

Thank you for your support everyone. I think this was a situation I knew in my gut was happening, but just couldn't accept. It's still hard to accept that she'll be moving out won't be there any more.

I do want to try to make this work. When it was working we were ridiculously happy together. There is great potential there. But I'm only half the equation and if she has no interest in making it work then there isnt much I can do but try to move on. We're going to begin marriage counceling, which I believe means we're both willing to work on things. How that goes should answer a lot of questions as to the viability of reconciling. 

For now I'm trying to let her go. My problem was that I wrapped myself up too tightly with her, so that is going to take some time. One layer at a time I guess. But the process has begun and I am already feeling stronger. More able to stand on my own two feet. Less dependant on her presence, approval, and moods to define how I'm feeling. More like an individual again. I know this will be good for me in the end. It's just looking like a hard road ahead.


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## fetishwife

Wyrd One,

Also READ..Married Man Sex Life Primer
Also READ..ebooks by Calle Zorro...

Also take it form me...get as much IC as you can afford and GET YOUR SELF ESTEEM BACK.....maybe date around a bit.

Making these changes as described (read the books, get the IC, man up, work out and get as buff as you can and FLAT abs seem to go miles with women.., dress hip and cool, try shaving your head and wearing cool hats..works for me never had ever considered it). Mainly its 80% your personality and 20% your looks...we are way better off than women as far as picking ourselves up and getting back in the game...

Im telling you...she is going to have a tough time finding a man willing to deal with her 80 hour week unless she is just HOT and he does not care about her never being around...the type that will cheat ON HER!

Either if you get back with this one...or next time you will be more likely to keep your woman.

Make sure you dont wimp out..get her out of your life, cut off contact with her.....

Her trying to have an affair is inexcusable...unless you really think you are a total loser...find another woman.


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## fetishwife

And next time make it CLEAR....

You are MY woman...NO MALE PALS.that is not controlling and jealous that is manly and territorial....like a lion

..and AFFAIR EQUALS GOOD BYE AND GOOD LUCK!


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## tom67

costa200 said:


> Usually plays out that way. I think we are all sorry to have been correct. Stay strong dude...
> 
> 
> 
> That's why he rejected her... His interests are probably more hmmm... manly...


ehummm hence the "manpurse" whateverrr!


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## Jellybeans

Wyrd--sorry to hear how it played out. But at least you now know that you gut was spot on. Where there is smoke with these things, there is usually fire.

If she wants out, let her go. Don't cling. Respect yourself. Get into new hobbies, meet up with old friends, buy some new cologne.

It does take time but eventually 1 day you will look back and thank the stars she did you this favor.

You deserve so much better.



NextTimeAround said:


> Also, Wyrd, do not put up with women who insist that they cannot make women friends.


Ya know, some women will disagree with me but I think it's REALLY weird when a woman has no female friends. It is something that makes no sense to me. Especially the ones who say "I'm not friends with women cause they are so much drama." Um, perhaps YOU are the dramatic person if you can't make any female friends.


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## Gunthar

Jellybeans said:


> Wyrd--
> Ya know, some women will disagree with me but I think it's REALLY weird when a woman has no female friends. It is something that makes no sense to me. Especially the ones who say "I'm not friends with women cause they are so much drama." Um, perhaps YOU are the dramatic person if you can't make any female friends.


:iagree:

Ha,ha! 

This is my wife exactly!

It isn't that she does not like women and does not want to have female friends.......it's that women do not like my wife for as soon as they see her true side they run for the hills! :lol:


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## Jellybeans

I feel sorry for you then, Gunthar.


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