# I think my fiancee may not be faithful



## Learning and trying

Hi there, I am 37, my fiancee is 33. We are both women, in a same sex relationship. We are monogamous, engaged and bought a house together about six months ago. We've been together for 3 and a half years.

The relationship isn't perfect but I am committed to her and see myself with her forever. I don't have a wandering eye - I want to settle down.

I need the forum's help please. Over the last couple of months, she's not been the same. Distracted, stressed with work, not affectionate in the same way she used to be. I've talked about this and it hasn't helped - she's told me she needs more space, less talking and needs to focus on her work. 

I have been aware of her being glued to her phone - she takes it to every room in the house - even the bathroom. To be fair, I check my phone a lot too but it's just something I've been aware of. 

Anyway, she went to another city for work and for their work Christmas party. This city is a short flight away. She left on Thursday after work and I didn't hear from her which was strange because usually we text when we take a flight to say we've got there safely. The next day I text her and she texts back saying she missed her flight and had to get a later one. She says she's tired and annoyed but she'll ring me later. 

She does not ring me later. That Friday night she has her work party. On Saturday morning, at about 10am, I ring her and her phone doesn't connect - she turns it on to 'do not disturb' a lot so I think she's probably just sleeping. I send her a text asking her how the party was and to give me a ring when she gets this. I eventually hear from her at 2:45pm. The text says she left her phone at the venue where the party was held and she's just managed to pick it up. She says she's rushing to get to the airport but will ring me from the airport. 

She is booked on a 5pm flight home but she rings me at 6:30pm saying she is still in the city and that she missed her plane because of traffic. She is sounds extremely stressed and she's saying she had the worst luck. She has booked another flight - the last flight of the evening at 10pm. She said she'd going for a walk and a drink to calm down. When I hang up, I get the sense that I am being lied to... but I don't know about what specifically. 

I ring her at 8:30pm and get the same 'do not disturb' call dial so I text her again saying I hope she's at the airport. She rings back at 9:20pm and says she is. She gets home at 1:30am. We chat for a bit and go to sleep.

When I wake up the next morning (which is this morning), I leave her sleeping and check her bag. There is a drinks coaster from a queer bar in the city she was in (I googled the name). The drinks coaster has a woman's writing on it. The message says "To dolphin girl, meet me at the toilets in 15 minutes. Heart Sim" There is a phone number on the coaster too. 

I was just about to wake her up and ask her what the hell this was but then I remembered this site and how people advise you get cast iron proof of cheating before confronting. And the coaster is proof that someone came on to her but not proof of cheating. So I take a picture of the coaster and put it back in her bag. 

We have a normal day but I'm watching her - same deal with the phone. I ask her a few questions about her trip and she says she doesn't want to talk about it - it was stressful and horrible.

Something is obviously up. I want proof - she has an iPhone 6S which is password protected and she doesn't use the password as it has the fingerprint id and she always uses that. She also has a MacBook that is also password protected. I don't know her passwords. What can I do? I really want to look at her phone, at her texts and at her call log to see if she called or texted this woman.

Please, forum, let me know how you would approach this.

*Edit* thank you for all the replies. It seems I am unable to post a response on this thread because my user permissions do not let me. Is there a way I could be granted more access please?

In other news, I googled the phone number and a name came up, she runs a side business so I looked up her business registration and got her last name and then found her private Facebook and Instagram. What to people think about me contacting her and asking what happened?


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## EleGirl

Welcome to TAM, but I'm sorry for what you are going through.

You are right to not confront her until you have strong evidence to prove that she is cheating. If you confront her without solid evidence, she will just lie and get smarter at hiding whatever it is she's up to. Just act like nothing is going on and keep your eyes open. 

Do you have access to her phone bill? That's often the best place to start.

Also here is a thread with all sorts of ideas about how to find out what's up.

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## minimalME

Personally, I wouldn't be with someone I didn't trust, and I refuse to snoop.

Please, do not marry this person until you're confident that you're both wholeheartedly committed.

I would sit down with her and have an open, vulnerable conversation about what you think and how you feel. Both of you have to be able to communicate in a genuine way, so that both of you are heard and understood. You certainly don't have to agree on everything, but people do have to be willing to talk honestly. If you can't, then there is no relationship.


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## MaiChi

No matter what happens, I would never check my husband's phone or Email address. Simply, the minute I find I no longer trust him, I tell him and we discuss the implications of that. I do not expect him to check mine either. 

Due to something that happened a while back, we swap our sim cards every two weeks so callers never know whom they are calling. I am well aware that this does not stop cheating. It just confuses callers, specially those who call about trivial stuff. 

Most cheats have another phone or sim card.


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## EleGirl

Yea, snooping sucks and should only be done to the point that the suspecting person knows 100% that there is, or is not cheating going on. The problem with trusting intuition, and saying that if you don't trust a person you would just leave is that you might be the problem. Intuition is not always accurate.

Another issue with snooping is that those who cheat lie and are often very good at it. With no evidence in hand, the BS often feels unsure and does not know what to believe.

While it might seem like an un-cool thing to do, it's like it told my husband when he complained that I snopped and found out about his infidelity. He told me that since i snooped i would never be able to trust me again. My reply to him what that he could always trust me. He could trust that i would always do what was necessary to protect my son and myself.


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## minimalME

I can protect myself without snooping. 

Intuition may very well end up being wrong, but if the other party is unwilling to communicate (in words or actions), then there's really no basic foundation to a relationship.

And actions can often say a lot more than words - in terms of someone being deceitful. I think most are able to tell if a person is truly available and present. Just like we can usually tell when there's a problem.

It's not for me to prove that my partner should be in a relationship with me. Or not. People give exactly what they want to give. All you have to do is pay attention.


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## oldshirt

EleGirl said:


> .
> 
> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


Set aside some time to read through this thread and do your own investigation (or hire a PI that specializes in adultery) 

The reason people are advising not to confront to early is because if you ask someone if they are cheating they will simply say no and that you are crazy and being paranoid and "controlling" and then they will go deeper underground and cover their tracks better. 

Keep in mind you only need enough evidence so that YOU know they are cheating. You do not need to convince them what they are doing (they already know what they are doing) and you do not have to prove to them what you know; in fact it's better than you do not divulge all your information or where/how you obtained the proof. 

And you do not need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. 

You simply need enough evidence that you know that they are not fully invested in your relationship and are not fully faithful to you. 

You'll probably never know the full truth so don't lose yourself trying to uncover every last detail. You only need enough so that you are aware of what's happening to the point that you can take action on your end.


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## sokillme

You story has all the signs. If you can't get her phone you might want to go the PI route, if you really want to go so far. However there is enough here that I would definitely put of marrying this women.


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## EleGirl

minimalME said:


> I can protect myself without snooping.
> 
> Intuition may very well end up being wrong, but if the other party is unwilling to communicate (in words or actions), then there's really no basic foundation to a relationship.
> 
> And actions can often say a lot more than words - in terms of someone being deceitful. I think most are able to tell if a person is truly available and present. Just like we can usually tell when there's a problem.
> 
> It's not for me to prove that my partner should be in a relationship with me. Or not. People give exactly what they want to give. All you have to do is pay attention.


Have you been in a relationship where your spouse cheated?


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## SunCMars

This much you know....

Her mind is elsewhere, she missed two flights, likely because she is depressed and did not keep track of the time.

Or-

She missed her first flight because she was supposed to go with someone else, who maybe did not show up.
She missed her second flight because she got involved with someone else [or original OP] and did not keep track of the time.

Or- 

She is depressed, not happy with your' relationship. She went to the gay bar and happened to meet a gal [G2]who diddled her in the ladies room.

And or-

She met someone online [G1]who she was supposed to meet up with, she missed her first flight, that person got tired of waiting. She later told this gal [G1]that she finally arrived.
She got stood up by [G1].

G2, the bar gal is real. They likely had {other-then} family relations in one of the toilet stalls. Or out in the open. Dunno, I have never been a a gay bar bathroom.

She would not have kept this glass coaster if it meant nothing. She was careless bringing it home.
Expect more carelessness from her.

She will tip her hand soon.

Put a voice activated recorder in the home VAR; at a place where she normally sits. 

Give her space so that she can make those calls.


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## Learning and trying

Thanks for the replies everyone. VAR has been purchased.


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## MAJDEATH

I know nothing about lesbian relationships or the dynamics. My gay friends/acquaintances/neighbors (males) are frequently in and out of relationships, many at the same time. This may have more to do with their "maleness" coming thru.

If you two are totally committed then it seems odd that she would travel without you to a social event and be sketchy on the details, unless SOs were not invited or she didn't want to deal with homophobes. As others have advised, lay low and observe. You want irrefutable evidence before confronting.


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## Learning and trying

MAJDEATH said:


> I know nothing about lesbian relationships or the dynamics..
> 
> If you two are totally committed then it seems odd that she would travel without you to a social event and be sketchy on the details, unless SOs were not invited or she didn't want to deal with homophobes. As others have advised, lay low and observe. You want irrefutable evidence before confronting.



The trip itself didn’t raise any red flags. Her job requires her to travel - head office is in a different city and she was invited to their Christmas party. I have also been invited to a couple of work Christmas parties without her. I’m not in the US, if that helps for context. Most work parties do not include spouses here. 

However, her behaviour, lack of contacts and lack of clarity around details and flights raised many red flags for me. 

As for lesbian relationships - our relationship really isn’t that different to my heterosexual friends. We both earn similar amounts, are career focused and fairly independent. No kids. Both believe in equality but (usually) loving and affectionate. We both have discussed monogomy. She doesn’t get a pass for being alternative. We’re not alternative at all.


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## Mr.Married

Let's take a nice deep breath and a big step backwards just for a second here .............

EVERYTHING in a relationship is about trust ...... Is this relationship what you define as trustworthy ???

Everything else is just mud in the water.

I think you already know the answer.

The house of marriage never stands long on a bad foundation of trust.


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## Wolfman1968

Does she go to the same city frequently for work? 

Because the coaster with the "dolphin girl" writing, if it is a sign of infidelity, may mean the equivalent of a one-night stand with someone she met at that bar. The comment on the coaster does indeed sound more like a first-time pickup rather than the comment of long-established lovers.

However, you say she has been different for a while, so she may be having routine meetings if she goes to the same city often. Or, maybe the different behavior indicates dissatisfaction in the relationship, and she's now acted on that dissatisfaction by exploring her options at that bar. 


It's hard to tell at this point. You need to collect more evidence. I would recommend Weight Lifter's Evidence post.


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## Learning and trying

Mr.Married said:


> Let's take a nice deep breath and a big step backwards just for a second here .............
> 
> EVERYTHING in a relationship is about trust ...... Is this relationship what you define as trustworthy ???
> 
> Everything else is just mud in the water.
> 
> I think you already know the answer.
> 
> The house of marriage never stands long on a bad foundation of trust.


Clearly, no, I do not trust her. I bought a var today and am writing on this website. 

I think if I confronted her about the beer mat / drinks coaster, she would have called me paranoid, accused me of snooping and shut me down. 

I need to verify what is going on. But 100%, we can't be getting married when things are like this.


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## Learning and trying

Wolfman1968 said:


> Does she go to the same city frequently for work?
> 
> Because the coaster with the "dolphin girl" writing, if it is a sign of infidelity, may mean the equivalent of a one-night stand with someone she met at that bar. The comment on the coaster does indeed sound more like a first-time pickup rather than the comment of long-established lovers.
> 
> However, you say she has been different for a while, so she may be having routine meetings if she goes to the same city often. Or, maybe the different behavior indicates dissatisfaction in the relationship, and she's now acted on that dissatisfaction by exploring her options at that bar.
> 
> 
> It's hard to tell at this point. You need to collect more evidence. I would recommend Weight Lifter's Evidence post.


No, she has gone to that city twice this year. And yes, the coaster didn't suggest an ongoing relationship - definitely a pick up message.

But why was she in a queer bar? I don't actually have an issue with her going to a queer venue but why not mention it to me?
Why keep the coaster? Why not mention that someone tried to pick her up? We are both not unattractive... it does happen sometimes (even to me). 

When we were talking on the phone and she told me she missed her flight home - that coupled with the "I left my phone at the venue" - I just felt like I was being lied to.

I will read the post you suggested.

I also bought a Tile today. Has anyone used them? I was thinking of putting it in her car. She doesn't drive much (we both commute by public transport) but it just another data point. 

Emotionally, I feel like crying. I felt like vomitting at work today.


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## Mr.Married

Something very common to most threads like this is the following:

You may get some information to confirm your thoughts but you may not get 100% of everything. Your desire to have everything answered can go unfulfilled.
Be prepared for that outcome. Settle within yourself you may never know "everything". That in itself is a big factor on being able to move forward.


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## aine

L and T you are doing the right thing by keeping your mouth shut and gathering information to confirm or otherwise the suspicious behaviour. It is definitely suspicious and I think she has had a one night stand and may have done it a few times. I am sorry you are going through this and of course your emotions are all over the place, but keep it together you will fare better in the long run.


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## minimalME

EleGirl said:


> Have you been in a relationship where your spouse cheated?


I was in a sexless marriage for 20 years. 

A lot of people would say he was probably getting it elsewhere. And in a way, he was. He chose pornography and masturbation, but I only know that because during our seperation, he told me.

I never looked on his phone or on his computer. I didn't need to know what kind of pornography he was watching or how much. I didn't grill him with a bunch of questions. And I had no clue at all that he was doing this. 

None of that really mattered.

P & M were _easier_ than doing the harder, grown-up thing - talking to me. P & M were things he could control.

But my main point on this thread is that I wouldn't want to be with someone I felt compelled to spy on. So, if I felt unsure of where I stood with my partner, and they refused to participate in making the relationship better (which is the path my ex-husband took), then I'd simply walk away. 

I wouldn't wind myself up and make myself crazy for someone who didn't care.


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## sunsetmist

Just in case you need this.... Is slow to load.

The standard evidence gathering post...

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ence-post.html


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## Emerging Buddhist

Be sure a VAR is legal where you live... be prepared that any discovery of a snooping device will likely end the relationship as well.

How would you see recovering trust again if all the answers do not come?

This is really your hurdle...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Sorry you're going through this.

Tragically many common actions from your thread are common in a relationship when one SO is cheating or trying to.

If you two bought a house together, how would you work out the selling or splitting finances, in a worst case scenario?

Not saying things are definite by any means but if one has worked out foundational items even if in what if circumstances - it helps when having the tough conversations with SO.

You may have to start watching out for you own future, just in case. 

Best of luck!


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## Tron

Thankfully you aren't married to her yet, so you can get out of this relatively easily. 

With respect to the infidelity, a little more investigation might be in order, but the bottom line is that she was out at a queer bar and brought home someone's phone number. It doesn't sound like she is as committed to you as you are to her. Have you had the monogamy discussion and have you both agreed to it? Or are you open?

Are her complaints of you being needy accurate? Would you consider yourself normally insecure? Clingy?

If not, it doesn't sound like you are being treated respectfully in this relationship...or at least the way you think you should be treated. And if this treatment has being going on for some time, perhaps she isn't the right woman for you.


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## MAJDEATH

The only thing I can think of is maybe she is feeling the pressure of a pending marriage/lifetime commitment and that is causing her great concern - the last sexual partner, forever.


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## Learning and trying

Hey guys, just wanted to update as I hate threads where the OP goes MIA.

Long story short - we’ve broken up. Her heart clearly wasn’t in it and I caught her in another lie a few weeks after my last message. It’s been three weeks till D-Day and I saw on social media a picture of her with the girl she met in in the other city - so she did cheat. 

She denied it vehemently but that’s ok as her word doesn’t mean anything anymore as she had proven herself to be deceitful. 

We are now in the process of starting the house sale. She is being difficult over that so am on course for a tough few months. 

Although I have zero regret about ending the relationship (no choice, she wouldn’t admit to lying or agree to work on the relationship), I just don’t know how I could ever trust anyone again to the level where I would get engaged or buy property. 

I know I will heal and people go on to have second marriages that are successful but life has proven to me that you can feel 100% certainty for someone and go all in emotionally and financially - and then they can just change their mind about you. There are no guarantees in life. I don’t know what I am supposed to do with that lesson.

I am seeing a therapist, catching up with friends, eating healthily and exercising. But life is just grim at the moment - every day is a struggle and I barely sleep except when dosed up on Ambien. I feel like such a cliche. Variations of this story have been told one thousand times and but this one is happening to me and it feels so painful.


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## MattMatt

Learning and trying said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to update as I hate threads where the OP goes MIA.
> 
> Long story short - we’ve broken up. Her heart clearly wasn’t in it and I caught her in another lie a few weeks after my last message. It’s been three weeks till D-Day and I saw on social media a picture of her with the girl she met in in the other city - so she did cheat.
> 
> She denied it vehemently but that’s ok as her word doesn’t mean anything anymore as she had proven herself to be deceitful.
> 
> We are now in the process of starting the house sale. She is being difficult over that so am on course for a tough few months.
> 
> Although I have zero regret about ending the relationship (no choice, she wouldn’t admit to lying or agree to work on the relationship), I just don’t know how I could ever trust anyone again to the level where I would get engaged or buy property.
> 
> I know I will heal and people go on to have second marriages that are successful but life has proven to me that you can feel 100% certainty for someone and go all in emotionally and financially - and then they can just change their mind about you. There are no guarantees in life. I don’t know what I am supposed to do with that lesson.
> 
> I am seeing a therapist, catching up with friends, eating healthily and exercising. But life is just grim at the moment - every day is a struggle and I barely sleep except when dosed up on Ambien. I feel like such a cliche. Variations of this story have been told one thousand times and but this one is happening to me and it feels so painful.


 @Learning and trying Thanks for the update. Sorry she proved to be untrustworthy and not deserving of your love. 

But it's probably you found out about her cheating now, rather than years down the line.

And make sure you have a good solicitor/lawyer/attorney or whatever they call them where you live. Don't let her get away with one penny more than she deserves. She's already proved herself to be untrustworthy, so watch out. Not saying she will, but do be cautious.

We'll be here for you. Stick around, if you want. There's the Social Section for fun and frivolity, too.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Learning and trying said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to update as I hate threads where the OP goes MIA.
> 
> Long story short - we’ve broken up. Her heart clearly wasn’t in it and I caught her in another lie a few weeks after my last message. It’s been three weeks till D-Day and I saw on social media a picture of her with the girl she met in in the other city - so she did cheat.
> 
> She denied it vehemently but that’s ok as her word doesn’t mean anything anymore as she had proven herself to be deceitful.
> 
> We are now in the process of starting the house sale. She is being difficult over that so am on course for a tough few months.
> 
> Although I have zero regret about ending the relationship (no choice, she wouldn’t admit to lying or agree to work on the relationship), I just don’t know how I could ever trust anyone again to the level where I would get engaged or buy property.
> 
> I know I will heal and people go on to have second marriages that are successful but life has proven to me that you can feel 100% certainty for someone and go all in emotionally and financially - and then they can just change their mind about you. There are no guarantees in life. I don’t know what I am supposed to do with that lesson.
> 
> I am seeing a therapist, catching up with friends, eating healthily and exercising. But life is just grim at the moment - every day is a struggle and I barely sleep except when dosed up on Ambien. I feel like such a cliche. Variations of this story have been told one thousand times and but this one is happening to me and it feels so painful.


You have made the right decision. If your ex were honest she would move heaven and earth to prove nothing ever happened, not obfuscate and throw in the towel. 

Although it may not feel like it now ending it now is easier than years down the line. Consider yourself lucky that she showed her true colors early and that you were steadfast in not tolerating her cheating nonsense. 

Rest, clear your head, steady yourself and move on. You will meet someone worthy of your attention. Not everyone cheats. Surround yourself with those that don't. 

As she is making things difficult selling your joint property perhaps just let an attorney handle it. You will not have to see her or be in contact with her and she can waste her own money on her own attorney's fees being difficult. Rising attorneys fees should cure her of obstinance rather quickly.


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