# A question for people in a sexless marriage



## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

Before I ask my question, I just want to say that reading some of the posts on here make me sad, and they make my heart hurt. I would never wish some of the things I have learned that fellow TAM members are going through, on anybody. 

My question for those in a sexless marriage is - Has your marriage always been sexless, or did this happen over time? What was life like before you got married, or while you were newlyweds? 

Thank you in advance for answering my questions, I really appreciate it.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Before the trap sprang, there was cheese.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm out of my sexless marriage now, but the decrease in sex evolved over time. Even before the wedding, I felt something wasn't right but he assured me it was stress and all would be fine.

Month by month, year by year, the sex became less and less frequent. Til eventually it was none at all. Then it becomes so awkward to even try to rekindle the flame, there's just no turning back.

It is a sad, sad state to be in. That's why I eventually got out.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Are you married or about to be married? Is that why you ask? Remember that people come to TAM with problems. They don't represent married people in general.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I agree it is sad reading the stories, especially the one where the wives aren't giving their husbands sex and in some cases affection. These women don't realize how lucky they are to have a man who wants to and is able to have sex.

I'm thinking in most cases the sex drindled in the relationship over time. I can't imagine someone would want to get married knowing they will be in a sexless marriage.

In my case I have been married for 25 years. The first 17 we had a normal sexual relationship. Eight years ago my husband developed a low T count and ED (do to diabetes and hypertension). We haven't had sex because of this. We still love each other and kiss and hug but he doesn't like getting too passionate because it's too frustrating for him because he can't complete the act. It's frustrating for me too because I'd like to be more passionate. There is nothing I can do to change the situation, it's up to him. 

Despite this I love being married to him and have no plans to have an affair or leave him. He is a great husband and Father and everything else in the marriage is great.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

All sexual behavior disappeared at the birth of our first child, and did not reappear until at least seven or eight months later. It was a reluctant re-apperance.

Has not been the same since. On average, I'm guessing four times a year. At it's peak during that time, maybe a few times a month.

Attempts to understand what was going on, and how we might address it, continued for fourteen years or so.

The peak was a period of months about five years ago where my wife was more available, sexually. Turns out she was having an EA with her first lover, her high-school sweetheart.

She and I had sex after about three months of dating. She had sex with an "old boyfriend" about two months into our dating life together, despite promises not to.

I was a virgin when I met her. Our first sexual activity together was her performing oral sex on me (also at about 3 months into our dating). She would not let me touch her body intimately at all at that night, not even see or touch her breasts. Looking back, I wonder why -- was she using sexuality to control me even then?

Frequency and the "adventure level" was never ideal for me. I told myself maybe I was just too zealous having gotten a late start in my sexual life (I was 26 or so), and she had already had ten or so lovers; maybe the novelty had worn off for her by now.

Lately, she has told me it has always been awkward with me, that she "connected" with others during sex before, but not with me. Twenty years into our relationship, 15 of those married and about 4 more engaged, those were not the words I had hoped to hear.

I don't see myself having sex with her again. I don't see myself even kissing her, having been rejected in trying to kiss her too many times this year.

Unless a miracle occurs, I am done, and will take steps soon to end my marriage.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Nothing before marriage; she was a virgin. Then three years of reasonably good sex, with her initiating quite a lot. Then six years of her avoiding sex and me getting duty sex when it did happen (once a week to once every two weeks). After that, nearly two years of in-house separation and no sex at all. 

Then I figured out how to have her chase me again. We still have obstacles, but they are in other areas, mostly.


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> I'm out of my sexless marriage now, but the decrease in sex evolved over time. Even before the wedding, I felt something wasn't right but he assured me it was stress and all would be fine.
> 
> Month by month, year by year, the sex became less and less frequent. Til eventually it was none at all. Then it becomes so awkward to even try to rekindle the flame, there's just no turning back.
> 
> It is a sad, sad state to be in. That's why I eventually got out.


I'm glad you did what you had to do, and I hope you are happier now.


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Are you married or about to be married? Is that why you ask? Remember that people come to TAM with problems. They don't represent married people in general.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I married the man of my dreams on March 8th, 2014.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sex dropped off from daily to once a month if i was lucky within months of getting married. it stayed that way for several years.

im no longer in a sexless marriage though. back up to daily for the most part.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MSP said:


> Nothing before marriage; she was a virgin. Then three years of reasonably good sex, with her initiating quite a lot. Then six years of her avoiding sex and me getting duty sex when it did happen (once a week to once every two weeks). After that, nearly two years of in-house separation and no sex at all.
> 
> *Then I figured out how to have her chase me again.* We still have obstacles, but they are in other areas, mostly.


How did you figure out how to have her chase you, MSP?


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

I've been with my H for 20 years and married for 14. The first 6 years were great until I got planned pregnant with our second child. He started sleeping in another part of house for my entire pregnancy. When he came back to bed, I heard no for the next 10 years. Just recently found out one of the reasons was because he was afraid if getting pregnant again. I have had a couple of conversations with him regarding this, but it definitely put more effort into the intimate side of our relationship.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

jld said:


> How did you figure out how to have her chase you, MSP?


One day I'll post a whole thread with the summary of that journey. I've been compiling notes on what works for years, but never put it into practice until certain things came together for me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks, MSP. Also, you posted once that you do not encourage marriage counseling. I am not sure if you ever posted why.

I know it seems like I am picking your brain today, but that is because I think there are some interesting things in there that we could all learn from.


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

Ashalicious said:


> I married the man of my dreams on March 8th, 2014.


That's what we all thought, in the beginning.


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

Tango said:


> Just recently found out one of the reasons was because he was afraid if getting pregnant again.


I don't buy it. Even if you have religious beliefs against birth control, if the desire is there, a person won't say no to all sexual activity for ten years.


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> It is a sad, sad state to be in. That's why I eventually got out.


Any children?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

jdoe said:


> That's what we all thought, in the beginning.


Not all of us. I had some reservations. I just wasn't strong enough and honest enough to give them the attention they deserved.


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

I knew she was not as experienced as me, but had no idea anyone could have no sex drive. Almost 15 years later it's worse than in the beginning as she's even less interested in oral or manual now. I can get duty sex if I try, but I'd rather not anymore. Divorcing when I'm ready.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Ashalicious said:


> Before I ask my question, I just want to say that reading some of the posts on here make me sad, and they make my heart hurt. I would never wish some of the things I have learned that fellow TAM members are going through, on anybody.


I wish I'd found TAM earlier in my marriage. It helped me understand my husband in way I hadn't been able to for 24 years. Sometimes I cannot bear to think of what he went through for those years; we both had our hand in the erosion of our intimacy, but he suffered more than I did because while my formerly HD desire for him tanked, his desire for me did not. 



Ashalicious said:


> My question for those in a sexless marriage is - Has your marriage always been sexless, or did this happen over time? What was life like before you got married, or while you were newlyweds?


It happened after we got married, had kids, bought a house, and my husband's career got demanding. Basically, lots of life changes at once. We didn't address or pay attention to the problems as they built. Eventually resentment set in, and it was a downward spiral after that. We'd had a great sex life for the ten years before this. Then it dwindled to a few times a month, intimacy eroded, and it took us ten years to dig out of that quagmire. Thankfully, neither of us cheated, so we were able to repair our marriage and move on.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

We can never be 100% certain...but I think when we stand at the altar (or wherever) the vast majority of us are 99% certain that this is the one.

After the 'honeymoon' period where you bonk atleast once a day we all tend to settle into a 'comfortable' routine.
Then the first baby pops out and the husband (rightly) gets relegated to the the bottom. However it should only be for the first couple of months.
The husband has to accept that for the first few months baby comes first.

However, the wife must remember that she also has a husband with needs.

As sex is, in general, far less important to a woman than it is to a man, once the baby making is done alot of women have no need or desire for sex.

My sex life was never brilliant but it was OK...then the children came along and my wife simply lost interest in sex and wasnt interested in what my sexual needs were or indeed that I wanted to make love to HER because I loved HER and that was how I wanted to show her. 
I slowly began to resent her for ignoring my sexual needs and we drifted apart to the point we are at now; I have no sexual interest in her..infact no interest whatsoever. We still share a house and a (very large) bed, we don't argue but neither do we really talk and I stopped asking for or trying to instigate sex years ago.
The worst thing is that she hasnt even noticed...or if she has it doesnt bother her.

I do more than most husbands do in the house...I do 95% of the cooking, pay all the bills, call plumbers etc and run my own company.

I crave both physical and sexual intimacy. I want someone to want to be with me, someone who will laugh at my jokes, want to have sex (make love to me)...and someone who will let me and WANT me to do the same to them.
But if I ended up having an affair it would all be my fault...what a dreadful husband I am...how dare I etc etc.

I am thirsty...there is nothing to drink at home....if someone offers me a drink.........??? I'll cross that bridge if and when I get to it.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Ashalicious said:


> I'm glad you did what you had to do, and I hope you are happier now.


Thank you. And I AM happier now, in fact, deliriously happy in my current relationship of nearly 4 years. After being in a "normal" relationship now, it's hard to imagine why I ever stayed so long.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

askari said:


> I do more than most husbands do in the house...I do 95% of the cooking, pay all the bills, call plumbers etc and run my own company.


Why?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I married CSA survivor. For the sake of being Christian, I waited until after we were married at her behest.

Then found out she was a CSA and also her ex husband beat her and was abusive in every way and she was terrified of sex.
she told me later, her husband beat her up on their wedding night!!!
She trapped me. I was extremely dissapointed, frustrated to say the least, but I was LD, so I put up with it for 3 years until she cheated (not PA, but several EA's). 

Thank the Lord i'm done with that and now with the sweetest woman I've ever known. And HD too!! What a kick!


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

jdoe said:


> I don't buy it. Even if you have religious beliefs against birth control, if the desire is there, a person won't say no to all sexual activity for ten years.


I complete agree. There are lots of ways of addressing the fear of pregnancy. If I was both afraid of more children and yet full of desire for my wife, I wouldn't simply hide in another room. I would say that with the vast majority of couples most sex most of the time is not for procreation.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

We had fairly regular sex before we got married - dropped off some after marriage, but was still OK (not a lot, but enough). In the past three and a half years, we've had sex three times (last time about a year ago). Like a lot on here, she puts all of her effort into the kids, and I'm just there to share expenses, help with the kids, and get nitpicked to death on little stuff. Sex doesn't even cross her mind (she's always too tired, needs a drink to relax herself but won't drink as she's afraid she'll need to attend to the kids, etc). I don't even bother initiating - what's the point? She will probably go along, but she won't be into it and will try to hurry me along. 

I have no desire to cheat, but being married to a woman that doesn't enjoy sex is not what I bargained for.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

We had great sex for the first few years. I would even guess it was better than average. Intense, often and adventurous. We went from that to nothing. We have gone years without having sex.


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

jdoe said:


> That's what we all thought, in the beginning.


Plenty of marriages are successful. Just because yours isn't, doesn't mean mine wont be. You shouldn't be so negative.


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## utah987654321 (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm back...and every time I sign on I feel I want to express my feelings only to realize I know the answers. About 8 months pregnant and things haven't changed with my husband. He and I are still pretty much roommates. He told me before I got pregnant that he thought I would be so beautiful pregnant...well he has never initiated sex since. He tells me that I'm sexy in a way where it feels like he's telling me We need Milk from the grocery store. Totally robotic and out of duty because he knows that I am craving intimacy. This is a stupid detail, but I've gained weight from the pregnancy in my booty and thighs. Nothing crazy, but definitely some added pounds. He refusing to touch me there and won't get close to me. I told him how I felt and that I was noticing his actions and then last night when we went to bed he told me his legs are so skinny and that there's not even a pound of fat on them...it was so weird. I felt like he was a *****y girlfriend from high school trying to make me feel bad. I have no idea why he said that. He tried to cuddle with me afterwards, which was unusual and I told him (for literally the first time) that it just felt awkward being close to him. He didn't say anything, rolled over and went to sleep. Today I am full of questions...we haven't even been married 1 year and his sex drive has taken a nose dive. I can't really say it's the marriage as this started about 8 months after we started dating. We've been together for about 3 years so pretty much, this issues has been there. I have continually told him how I feel and then he will (out of duty) initiate sex...but it lacks intimacy and feels so forced. I don't know what to do and I feel like, after reading these posts, it's just to continue to get worse and pretty soon pitter out all together.


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## ericthesane (May 10, 2013)

For me: in hindsight, it was clear that the old stereotype of the best cure for a woman's high libido is wedding cake is and was an ugly truth.

With the arrival of kids, and house, and work and books and movies and all the other things in life; it became the last thing on her mind. (now 20 months since last time and counting).

Based on having read so many stories, it seems close to impossible to know beforehand. In the two years before getting married it was frequent, adventuresome, trusting and oftentimes past exhausting.

to the OP: I really wish the best for you, and hope that you will not be here, or in a similar forum 15 years from now. (s)he who dares not..... Keep in mind, most of the people in these forums have so many issues in their marriage. Those truly happy and passionate marriages out there are seldom talked about, but they ARE out there, and with the things that you CAN learn from these forums, yours can be one of them.

Congratulations


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

jld said:


> Thanks, MSP. Also, you posted once that you do not encourage marriage counseling. I am not sure if you ever posted why.
> 
> I know it seems like I am picking your brain today, but that is because I think there are some interesting things in there that we could all learn from.


I'm not sure that I should disparage marriage counselling in a forum that receives income from promoting said activity. I'll PM you. That way we can pretend that I'm actually in favour of it. (I'm not fully against it, by the way).

(As an aside, it would be good to be notified when someone has quoted your posts, like being notified of a liked post, so I'd know to return to reply).


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

utah987654321 said:


> This is a stupid detail, but I've gained weight from the pregnancy in my booty and thighs. Nothing crazy, but definitely some added pounds. He refusing to touch me there and won't get close to me. I told him how I felt and that I was noticing his actions and then last night when we went to bed he told me his legs are so skinny and that there's not even a pound of fat on them...it was so weird. I felt like he was a *****y girlfriend from high school trying to make me feel bad. I have no idea why he said that. He tried to cuddle with me afterwards, which was unusual and I told him (for literally the first time) that it just felt awkward being close to him. He didn't say anything, rolled over and went to sleep.


Could he have possibly been saying he is too skinny?


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

jdoe said:


> I don't buy it. Even if you have religious beliefs against birth control, if the desire is there, a person won't say no to all sexual activity for ten years.


You're absolutely right...I just didn't consider that the 4-5 times a year he did say yes was as accurate as he said no for 10 years...and the only reason it happened that often is because I refused to give up and just continued to make a fool of myself...he did not ask me for sex in any way shape or form for at least 10 years. Only very recently has he initiated once or twice.


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

Lionelhutz said:


> I complete agree. There are lots of ways of addressing the fear of pregnancy. If I was both afraid of more children and yet full of desire for my wife, I wouldn't simply hide in another room. I would say that with the vast majority of couples most sex most of the time is not for procreation.


What is so hard to believe....that people live in the same house with their spouse and don't have sex....that's such a foreign concept here....the man never once from the time he left our bed up until maybe 6 months ago asked me for sex. Is it the length of time that passed that makes you question my story? I just don't understand what's so difficult to believe. He refused to get fixed, didn't like condoms....so obviously he had no desire for me. Pretty sure he was taking care of himself.


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## Getbusylivin (Dec 23, 2012)

Ash, when women give birth, sometimes it screws them up in many ways,, I saw this happen with each of my 3 kids,, third sealed our sex life for good.. That is not entirely the cause by no means but most women just accept it and don't work towards over coming there condition,, so basically they don't care enough about there husbands or marriage to make the effort,, But they expect the man to completely adjust to them and there wishes and blame him when he doesn't.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Tango said:


> What is so hard to believe....that people live in the same house with their spouse and don't have sex....that's such a foreign concept here....the man never once from the time he left our bed up until maybe 6 months ago asked me for sex. *Is it the length of time that passed that makes you question my story?* I just don't understand what's so difficult to believe. He refused to get fixed, didn't like condoms....so obviously he had no desire for me. Pretty sure he was taking care of himself.


I should let people speak for themselves, but I think there is some misunderstanding developing.

Fwiw, I didn't take what the other posters said to mean they do not believe facts (how long, etc.) from your story, but are just skeptical that your analysis of your spouse's motivation, or your spouse's stated reasons, might not be the whole truth.

I thought you implied the latter, when you said "one of the reasons....", which suggests to me you realize there are probably other reasons as well. (So, I was a bit confused by some of their comments that followed.)

In any case, there are couples here that have gone for months or years without having sex at all. That's all to real for some of us.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

Tango said:


> What is so hard to believe....that people live in the same house with their spouse and don't have sex....that's such a foreign concept here....the man never once from the time he left our bed up until maybe 6 months ago asked me for sex. Is it the length of time that passed that makes you question my story? I just don't understand what's so difficult to believe. He refused to get fixed, didn't like condoms....so obviously he had no desire for me. Pretty sure he was taking care of himself.


Perhaps you misunderstood me. What I didn't believe was his excuse not the lack of sex. I know all too well from personal experience that you can live in the same house and even share the same bed without having sex for years.

I meant that if the only issue was truly about pregnancy then he would have raised it directly. There is something else at work that accounts for his sustained loss of interest.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

In reply to the OP's question - I've been married for 15 months now. We got married about 9 months after meeting. During those first nine months we had fairly regular sex. Then we got married - no sex on the honeymoon and we've had sex about a dozen times since. We're both in our fifties and have both been married before. It's looking more and more likely that my husband has low T and he has a fairly unhealthy lifestyle. I'm fit as a fiddle, not overweight (perhaps slightly under, if anything) and active. He's always tired, is on meds, drinks a couple of bottles of whisky a week and does no exercise at all. I'm a strict vegetarian, follow a wholefood diet and make sure that every meal is healthy - he eats mostly sausage sandwiches, chicken or scrambled eggs - very little in the way of vegetables, even when I prepare really delicious dishes that he could eat with meat. Haven't had sex for 10 weeks (with an 8 week gap before that and another 8 week gap before that). We've had the 'talk' several times - he knows how upset, humiliated and inadequate I feel, but just says that he never thinks of sex and never gets hard. He makes no effort to do anything about this - we don't have anything sexual going on at all but he says he fancies me and wants me, but just has no desire to have sex. So, this isn't a situation that's taken years to develop - we've been together for 2 years and most of that has been practically sexless.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

doobie your situation is unusual that his sex drive would go down so quickly after you got married. All the unhealthy stuff you mentioned is something you knew about before you got married so you really have no reason to complain about that. It sounds like he might need to have a checkup to see if his t count is low to see is that's why he isn't thinking about sex.

If he refuses to see a Dr or doesn't think there is a problem then you have a decision to make. If you don't want to stay in this type of marriage give him an ultimatum. You are in a position that most of us aren't in in that you are in a new marriage and there are no kids so I would think it would be easier to divorce that those of us in long marriages with children (like myself)


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> I should let people speak for themselves, but I think there is some misunderstanding developing.
> 
> Fwiw, I didn't take what the other posters said to mean they do not believe facts (how long, etc.) from your story, but are just skeptical that your analysis of your spouse's motivation, or your spouse's stated reasons, might not be the whole truth.
> 
> ...


Thank you! It sometimes so hard to get across what you want to say with words alone. Yes, that was one BIG reason he has given me. It will be interesting going forward.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Ashalicious said:


> Plenty of marriages are successful. Just because yours isn't, doesn't mean mine wont be. You shouldn't be so negative.


Hear ! Hear! And the fact that you are here I think is a positive sign that you are one of the proactive ones who come here because they want to learn and because they want to have a good marriage. Don't feel bad about what joe said - I thought his comment was unfair and pessimistic also.

Someone else said that the representative class here was skewed toward those with problems in their marriage - I don't know if that is true or not - In life there are many many couples who have problems and they never seek help. There are many who seek help for even the slightest thing. And there are many who are in good marriages now who were in bad relationships before and they want to keep the good relationship going.

I fall into that last category - and that is one reason why I am here. I was also part of the problem - in a way - and I sometimes speak about that also.

Anyways, yours is one of the voices that I draw inspiration from - a young woman in a good relationship who has questions and is actively concerned about keeping her marriage successful.


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## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

I read the sexual challenges that folks have here and truly, my heart goes out to all of you. Both my wife are blessed when it comes to intimacy. Neither of us have had sex with others and we did wait until the vows were repeated before we consummated our marriage. I am not boasting --- just sharing some insight to our marriage.

We have always experienced attraction for each other (except when I screwed up BIG time-read in another post) Maybe not earth shattering as we were both learning. Unfortunately, it wasn't until I learned how to really please my wife did things improve even more. 

I please her first and ensure that she does reach an orgasm (She never wants to try for more --- I have no idea why not). Then it is my turn and we are both satisfied at least 99% of the time (No, we don't keep track by putting notches on the bed post.) Truth be known, our sex has reached an even higher level the past 5 years; maybe she could but I could not be without it; it is that good even at our age (f-71 & m-73).

Okay, let me be honest here, I apply a testosterone cream every day (medication did my "T" in) and for the same reason, I did receive a penile implant. One of the best things that I have ever done.

I can't fathom how those who get to enjoy sex only a few times a year can hold them selves together. I know that I would fall apart. I sincerely wish you all the very best.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Typical story for me. All was fine until I do.

Then it slowed down (her choice). Then the first kid came and everything stopped. I mean everything. Hot sex became 2 minutes of missionary while she counts down the seconds till its over. That happened once or twice per year until number 2 came. Since then its been non existent. Maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 4 years. 

I'm 35. Still to young in my mind to not have sex anymore. I've become bitter around the house. Happy and jovial at work. Which means I will be leaving. The question is when. While the girls are still young Im not going anywhere. Self inflicted torture...I understand but I have to do this. So for now Ill be the whinny little B that complains about his horrible existence.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

sinnister said:


> Typical story for me. All was fine until I do.
> 
> Then it slowed down (her choice). Then the first kid came and everything stopped. I mean everything. Hot sex became 2 minutes of missionary while she counts down the seconds till its over. That happened once or twice per year until number 2 came. Since then its been non existent. Maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 4 years.
> 
> I'm 35. Still to young in my mind to not have sex anymore. I've become bitter around the house. Happy and jovial at work. Which means I will be leaving. The question is when. While the girls are still young Im not going anywhere. Self inflicted torture...I understand but I have to do this. So for now Ill be the whinny little B that complains about his horrible existence.


Your story is just like mine except you're getting it 3 to 4 times a year more than me.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

MSP said:


> One day I'll post a whole thread with the summary of that journey. I've been compiling notes on what works for years, but never put it into practice until certain things came together for me.


I'm all ears.


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## sthsthzhen (May 3, 2014)

Thank you in advance for answering my questions, I really appreciate it.


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

intheory said:


> Your sex drive will probably go through higher and lower phases in marriage. Stress from work, having children, taking on enormous financial responsibilities (mortgage plus two car payments).
> 
> I think you should initially have a strong physical attraction to your spouse. I have had friends who chose "a good provider", then agonized because having sex with this person was repulsive to them.
> 
> ...


This is very sound advice, and I agree with you 100%.


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

Getbusylivin said:


> Ash, when women give birth, sometimes it screws them up in many ways,, I saw this happen with each of my 3 kids,, third sealed our sex life for good.. That is not entirely the cause by no means but most women just accept it and don't work towards over coming there condition,, so basically they don't care enough about there husbands or marriage to make the effort,, But they expect the man to completely adjust to them and there wishes and blame him when he doesn't.


I think there are ways to be intimate without actually having sex, and it is important, as a woman, to never forget that sex is a man's biggest, natural need, and he will always need satisfying. If I get to the point in my marriage where I cannot meet my husbands needs sexually, then how is it fair for me to say he cannot go have his needs met elsewhere?


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

4x4 said:


> Almost 15 years later it's worse than in the beginning as she's even less interested in oral or manual now.


Sorry if I am a prude, but what is manual sex? Like handjobs and stuff?


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

People change Ash and you find out things about them over time - stuff you could never see up front. It cuts both ways.

My partner and I had strong physical attraction. What I didn't know was that she also had that for other men. This was not apparent, right up until I busted her affair - though she had always been a bit of a flirt which kind of angered me at times but not much.

I mention this because it underpinned our highly diminished sex life, particularly after our children were born. Otherwise we had had a very good sex life for the first year or two.

You can put down a reduced sex life to many of the usual things mentioned here post children, but I had also let myself go. I think that once it became clear that my size and my health was not heading in the right direction the wheels fell off - over time, a lot of time.

And the rest is history. She defaulted to an affair which has I later discovered had been a default position for her in her past before me. I put the pieces together after the fact. She responded to unhappiness and stress etc by having an affair to make herself feel better.

This is obviously not always the case when your sex life starts to dry up. But for me it took this experience to learn about what is healthy and what is not. Not the affair - but the way a relationship unfolds if you do not nurture it. 

Though it will be argued that despite the best nurturing, my partner would still have cheated due to her mind set. I can't argue against that. But with some smarts I might have seen what lay ahead and might have seen that our bonding was an unhealthy choice. Hard lesson but there it is.


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

Ashalicious said:


> I think there are ways to be intimate without actually having sex, and it is important, as a woman, to never forget that sex is a man's biggest, natural need, and he will always need satisfying. If I get to the point in my marriage where I cannot meet my husbands needs sexually, then how is it fair for me to say he cannot go have his needs met elsewhere?


Wow! This is so impressive that you understand this concept. You are right that sexual fulfillment is a man's biggest emotional need. His Needs, Her Needs talks about that and it is so true. I have tried to get my wife to understand this and it falls on deaf ears. She used to love physical intimacy. It didn't drop off slowly, it just ended one day. I was never given a reason. I thought we would get a divorce but my wife has slowly become less withdrawn over the years and now says she wants to be close. But there is no intimacy and she has no desire for it. I stayed because there were so many other outside issues that I just wasn't ready for divorce. The lack of intimacy has destroyed me in a way, though. I told my wife that I don't think she loves me, even though she says she does. It gets harder every day to live with someone who you feel does not really care about your happiness.

There are so many men on this forum that would give anything to have a wife that understands male nature as you do. I tell my wife that a man knows his wife loves him when she shares her body and she thinks that is the man's view. Well, it is not the man's view. It is basic biology and I am sure that more than 90% of men will not feel loved if their wife consistently withholds intimacy, no matter how good everything else in the marriage is.

With your understanding of male nature, I feel very good about your marriage, provided your husband understands you as well.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

Ashalicious said:


> My question for those in a sexless marriage is - Has your marriage always been sexless, or did this happen over time? What was life like before you got married, or while you were newlyweds?


Married 14 years and we've always struggled in this area. There were some spikes here and there where we do do something a little crazy but those were far and few between. 

First year or so of marriage was a couple times a week. I don't think we ever had sex two days in a row since our honeymoon.

After that things dwindled to a couple times a month until it got more infrequent around year 5. We had gone 6 months without anything. I demanded counseling or else so she went and things got a little better, every other month. I think the following year was once a month. 

Since then we have maintained 10-12 times a year. 

I think one big cause for us was her use of anti-depressants killed her libido. 

She was very religious before we got married and so would tempt me to do stuff beyond kissing then beat me up emotionally the next day with guilt. I should have ended the relationship then but I was young and stupid.


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## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

Hilarious!



unbelievable said:


> Before the trap sprang, there was cheese.


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## jay1365 (May 22, 2013)

There are two basic outlines for sexless marriage stories. One is the bait and switch, and the other is hoping the partner will "come around" after pledging undying love for each other at the alter.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Lionelhutz said:


> We had great sex for the first few years. I would even guess it was better than average. Intense, often and adventurous. We went from that to nothing. We have gone years without having sex.


Wow! I can't imagine going years. Have you asked why the change? Have you ever said anything like "remember when our sexlife was so intense, adventurous, and often? Do you miss that? Do you have fond memories of it? Would you like to get back to that?" 

Just curious how she explains the change. I guess this question goes out to others too in sexless situations.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Tango said:


> What is so hard to believe....that people live in the same house with their spouse and don't have sex....that's such a foreign concept here....the man never once from the time he left our bed up until maybe 6 months ago asked me for sex. Is it the length of time that passed that makes you question my story? I just don't understand what's so difficult to believe. He refused to get fixed, didn't like condoms....so obviously he had no desire for me. Pretty sure he was taking care of himself.


There's no sex in our house - DW says that sex is too much like work and she's always too tired anyway (but it's OK that she stays up late to play games, watch TV, etc). On the rare occasions that sex is discussed, she will say that I could initiate, and my reply is "why would I?" All I hear is how tired she is, how she has a headache, how stressed out the kids make her, etc. Why would I want to initiate sex? If she did acquiesce, then she'll just lay there trying to hurry me along. 

In those times when I'm in the mood, I just wait until I'm in the shower in the morning and take care of myself then. I'm not going to bother trying to have sex with a woman that claims that it's too much work to have sex and that she's rather sleep. 

The point of this is that there are homes where married couples live and sex is practically a foreign concept. I would love to have sex with my wife much more often (I also think this would help clear up some issues), but it takes two to tango.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I have seen a few posts where the men in sexless marriages have plans to leave their wives once the children are out of the house. I would be curious if this is what most of the men here are thinking or are their some who plan to stay in the marriage even if it does remains sexless? I would think that would be difficult knowing you would never have sex again (assuming you don't have an affair) and if I was in that position where my spouse was choosing not to have sex with me I would probably be planning to leave once my children were grown.


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## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

I guess that if I were in your situation of no or very little sex in my marriage, children or not, I would leave. Cruel --- not really as there was a "We" long before there was "Us". 

I probably will receive a lot of flack on this but if repair or reconciliation is not a reality, then why prolong the agony for the both of you.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

seahorse said:


> Hilarious!


It's not funny if you're the mouse.


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## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

I am staying. However I believe most men would leave if they thought things wouldn't change.



Happilymarried25 said:


> I have seen a few posts where the men in sexless marriages have plans to leave their wives once the children are out of the house. I would be curious if this is what most of the men here are thinking or are their some who plan to stay in the marriage even if it does remains sexless? I would think that would be difficult knowing you would never have sex again (assuming you don't have an affair) and if I was in that position where my spouse was choosing not to have sex with me I would probably be planning to leave once my children were grown.


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

Ashalicious said:


> If I get to the point in my marriage where I cannot meet my husbands needs sexually, then how is it fair for me to say he cannot go have his needs met elsewhere?


Very few women would be OK w/ this.


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

Married but not happy said:


> Wow! This is so impressive that you understand this concept. You are right that sexual fulfillment is a man's biggest emotional need. His Needs, Her Needs talks about that and it is so true. I have tried to get my wife to understand this and it falls on deaf ears. She used to love physical intimacy. It didn't drop off slowly, it just ended one day. I was never given a reason. I thought we would get a divorce but my wife has slowly become less withdrawn over the years and now says she wants to be close. But there is no intimacy and she has no desire for it. I stayed because there were so many other outside issues that I just wasn't ready for divorce. The lack of intimacy has destroyed me in a way, though. I told my wife that I don't think she loves me, even though she says she does. It gets harder every day to live with someone who you feel does not really care about your happiness.
> 
> There are so many men on this forum that would give anything to have a wife that understands male nature as you do. I tell my wife that a man knows his wife loves him when she shares her body and she thinks that is the man's view. Well, it is not the man's view. It is basic biology and I am sure that more than 90% of men will not feel loved if their wife consistently withholds intimacy, no matter how good everything else in the marriage is.
> 
> With your understanding of male nature, I feel very good about your marriage, provided your husband understands you as well.


Thank you for the compliment. You made my evening!


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

:
Originally Posted by askari 
I do more than most husbands do in the house...I do 95% of the cooking, pay all the bills, call plumbers etc and run my own company. 

Why? 


Because I'm sucking ftupid....You know the old saying; if you want something doing, do it yourself.

No milk in the fridge....'Sorry, I fell asleep and forgot to go to the store'

If only - 'The cops have just stopped me for no insurance'...'Sorry, I had a snooze and forgot to renew it'..... Y E S!!


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

jdoe said:


> Very few women would be OK w/ this.


Yes, I agree, which is why I think that Ashalicious has a good chance of a successful marriage. She seems to understand that sexual fulfillment is a man's number one emotional need. If more women understood this, there would be far less infidelity and divorce. I am not ignoring a woman's needs. A man needs to understand a woman's needs as well.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Happilymarried25 said:


> I have seen a few posts where the men in sexless marriages have plans to leave their wives once the children are out of the house.


I'm one of those... although I'm not strictly in a sexless marriage (we have sex once a month - is that sexless?), I'm planning to leave when the "little" one (13) goes...

My wife told me two years ago that things will never change. She also said she would understand if I left. The thing is, our marriage is ok, it's just the sex and the intimacy now missing...

And it didn't just happen. It started going downhill after our second child was born. Then my wife started having psychological problems, got on the ADs and that was it... zero sex drive.

At the beginning, it was sex every day... after a couple of years sex was once a week, after 5 twice a month... now, I don't care anymore!

I understand the psychological issues, but these can be fixed with therapy. Unfortunately, my wife refuses to go, so there is no way out... hope this answers your question...


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I'm one of those... although I'm not strictly in a sexless marriage (we have sex once a month - is that sexless?), I'm planning to leave when the "little" one (13) goes...
> 
> My wife told me two years ago that things will never change. She also said she would understand if I left. The thing is, our marriage is ok, it's just the sex and the intimacy now missing...
> 
> ...


I give you props for staying in the marriage until the children are grown and for not having an affair like some men in your situation do. Sounds like you have given your wife every opportunity to make your marriage better and if she has no interest in doing that then I can see why you would want to leave. It sounds like now you two are on a friendly level and together to raise your children.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Happilymarried25 said:


> I give you props for staying in the marriage until the children are grown and for not having an affair like some men in your situation do. Sounds like you have given your wife every opportunity to make your marriage better and if she has no interest in doing that then I can see why you would want to leave. It sounds like now you two are on a friendly level and together to raise your children.


yes, I've done all I could... until 2 years ago (after almost 30 years together), when I realised there was no point... I understand my wife's fears, but destroying our marriage without even trying is heart-breaking... And yes, we are just two friends raising our children now...


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## martin 329 (Apr 4, 2013)

Ashalicious said:


> Before I ask my question, I just want to say that reading some of the posts on here make me sad, and they make my heart hurt. I would never wish some of the things I have learned that fellow TAM members are going through, on anybody.
> 
> My question for those in a sexless marriage is - Has your marriage always been sexless, or did this happen over time? What was life like before you got married, or while you were newlyweds?
> 
> Thank you in advance for answering my questions, I really appreciate it.


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## martin 329 (Apr 4, 2013)

Well Hi from the UK, mine is sexless, she makes all sorts of reasons.. 

However we have a strange arrangement.. about three years ago I suggested to spark things up, we went swinging..I had been chatting to the lady.'she chatted a little to the guy.. well anyway we all met up had a meal.. it was not easy, and in the end my wife had penetrative sex with the guy, nothing like that happened with me, just a bit of play.. after that she arranged without my knowledge to meet up with him.. I was asked about her meeting for dog walks as well .. thought nothing of it.. A new girl friend popped up who got free holidays.."stupid me".. this has been going on for some time now 2 1/2 years many holidays barbados twice most of europe at least 8-10 times per year.. dont know wht to do.. I also have a couple of Irish Setters who are a complication.. 

She now goes away at a moments notice.. and wont ever answer her mobile.. and now we sleep seperately..

What to do ?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

martin 329 said:


> What to do ?



The word "divorce" springs to my mind...


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## GIM003 (Feb 5, 2014)

Ashalicious said:


> I think there are ways to be intimate without actually having sex, and it is important, as a woman, to never forget that sex is a man's biggest, natural need, and he will always need satisfying. If I get to the point in my marriage where I cannot meet my husbands needs sexually, then how is it fair for me to say he cannot go have his needs met elsewhere?


You are wise beyond your years and your husband is one lucky guy. It is far better for you to start thinking about these things early on in your marriage before things start to drift. This is not a project for you by yourself but rather for both you together. Each of you has to be open to the others needs and be sensitive to how they might change over time.

As for me, we are in a pretty good place now, but it has required effort on both out parts to get there (and in fairness, to other posters, we never reached the depths of despair that others describe).


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## Whome? (May 17, 2014)

Our sex life has had many ups and downs. :rofl: we've been married for 18 years tomorrow and have 2 kids. Sex has always been more important (a need) for my husband but not for me.
He uses porn when I am not getting him off. It's saddens me that that's how I feel. We used to use it together but now it just disgusts me. I use to do everything to please him but I just felt cheap and like a *****. Not a wife. 
I have definitely changed over the years. My sex drive is almost nothing now. (46) I'm thinking it is because I don't feel valued. He needs it to feel love and I need to feel love first. And around and around it goes.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> My wife told me two years ago that things will never change. She also said she would understand if I left. The thing is, *our marriage is ok*, it's just the sex and the intimacy now missing...


This phrase struck me. Actually, your marriage is NOT okay. It's an empty shell that still has the label.

What you have is a decent friendship and business partnership that works pretty well. That is NOT the same thing as a marriage. You can have these things with someone you don't love, and with whom you're not intimate in ways expected in marriage.

So, why not divorce and keep the friendship and partnership?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Whome? said:


> I have definitely changed over the years. My sex drive is almost nothing now. (46) I'm thinking it is because I don't feel valued. *He needs it to feel love and I need to feel love first. And around and around it goes*.


Someone has to make the first move to break the downward spiral. Things got worse over time, probably? You may be most aware of the problem so it may fall on you to initiate a solution if you really want one.

Actually, it will be more than just the first move. It means being the first to change your attitude and work consistently over time to improve the sexual aspect of your marriage while also working on communicating your needs for love and non-sexual affection. When he sees you are making positive changes, he will probably respond and be open to working with you on your needs as well.


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## GIM003 (Feb 5, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Someone has to make the first move to break the downward spiral. Things got worse over time, probably? You may be most aware of the problem so it may fall on you to initiate a solution if you really want one.
> 
> Actually, it will be more than just the first move. It means being the first to change your attitude and work consistently over time to improve the sexual aspect of your marriage while also working on communicating your needs for love and non-sexual affection. When he sees you are making positive changes, he will probably respond and be open to working with you on your needs as well.


:iagree:
Whome, MbH is right. Either you or your husband needs to break the cycle, and right now it's you. I said this in another thread yesterday and I'll say it again: You have a relationship problem with sex-related symptoms. You need to make sure that he understands this as well since both of you need to make changes for this to work. If he sees this a problem about sex and you act to increase sex, then he might see the problem as solved. You need to be clear on what you need from him-- communication and action go hand in hand.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It comes down to "If I really have to explain this to you like you're stupid then there's no point." Because either you are stupid, or you're a bully. Pick one.


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

JustARandomGal said:


> Apart from this one little part of our relationship things are good.


Is it? Why does your H desire you less now? What's different from the early years of your marriage, in the way he feels about you? I'm not saying that you've necessarily done something wrong, or that what you're experiencing is unusual. Just saying that if his desire for you has essentially died, maybe it's just not just an isolated issue in your relationship; that there is some larger issue.


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

sparkyjim said:


> Anyways, yours is one of the voices that I draw inspiration from - a young woman in a good relationship who has questions and is actively concerned about keeping her marriage successful.


Thank you. It is reassuring to know that I have found a safe place where I am able to ask questions and obtain honest answers from people who are (for the most part) non judgmental.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Carolyn Hax answers a letter from a woman who has a higher sex drive than her husband: 
Carolyn Hax: Coping with a husband’s seemingly diminished interest in sex - The Washington Post


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Not all men need sex! Hence the reason why there are woman in sexless marriages also. Same goes for woman, not all woman hate sex!


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

ladybird said:


> Not all woman hate sex!


Hallelujah!


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

Runs like Dog said:


> It comes down to "If I really have to explain this to you like you're stupid then there's no point." Because either you are stupid, or you're a bully. Pick one.


I'm sorry, WHO are you calling a bully?


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Runs like Dog? 

His bark is worse than his bite. 

And the rash from the collar his wife put on him decades ago is acting up.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My first marriage it started out with great sex. Then over the years he started to add rules.. like no noise during sex, then no touching him, then don't move.. and so on... then he announced that our sex life was over. So it turned into 7 years of sexless marriage. There is a story about our son and legal issues as to why I did not leave earlier.

After that I married again. Things were great for about 5 years. Then he had a breakdown. He claimed to be ED, would not see a doctor about it. I know he's not ED.. he just turned to porn and online affairs. We are now divorced.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jdoe said:


> Is it? Why does your H desire you less now? What's different from the early years of your marriage, in the way he feels about you? I'm not saying that you've necessarily done something wrong, or that what you're experiencing is unusual. Just saying that if his desire for you has essentially died, maybe it's just not just an isolated issue in your relationship; that there is some larger issue.


Don't you think that the same holds when a woman loses desire for her husband?


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> My first marriage it started out with great sex. Then over the years he started to add rules.. like no noise during sex, then no touching him, then don't move.. and so on... then he announced that our sex life was over. So it turned into 7 years of sexless marriage. There is a story about our son and legal issues as to why I did not leave earlier.
> 
> After that I married again. Things were great for about 5 years. Then he had a breakdown. He claimed to be ED, would not see a doctor about it. I know he's not ED.. he just turned to porn and online affairs. We are now divorced.




Same thing going on here Elegirl, except affairs that I know of! Wont get checked out by a dr for ed, wont get his T levels checked. Heading for divorce. Its to the point now I no longer want to have sex with him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ladybird said:


> Same thing going on here Elegirl, except affairs that I know of! Wont get checked out by a dr for ed, wont get his T levels checked. Heading for divorce. Its to the point now I no longer want to have sex with him.


I can understand why you are getting to the point of not wanting to have sex with him. If he will not do what is needed to address ED and low T, then he does not care enough about your marriage or you. It's a huge rejection.

About 20% of marriages are sexless. Half the time it's the husband choosing to not have sex.


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Don't you think that the same holds when a woman loses desire for her husband?


Yes!


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> About 20% of marriages are sexless. Half the time it's the husband choosing to not have sex.


And the other half of the time...?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jdoe said:


> And the other half of the time...?


Well the answer to that is obvious.

The point is that women do not have a monopoly on withholding sex. We just hear about women doing this more as it seems that men talk more about it. Women are less likely to talk openly about their husbands' doing this.


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Well the answer to that is obvious.


OK, I see what you mean. It wasn't obvious to me because I wasn't thinking simply in terms of which partner is withholding. I was focused on the word "withholding," and was thinking there are many ways that sexless marriages happen. I'm sure in some cases a partner withholds sex willfully, but in many (most?) others it's not so willful, it kind of happens in a complex way, where desire evaporates from various frictions that arise from negotiating a shared life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jdoe said:


> OK, I see what you mean. It wasn't obvious to me because I wasn't thinking simply in terms of which partner is withholding. I was focused on the word "withholding," and was thinking there are many ways that sexless marriages happen. I'm sure in some cases a partner withholds sex willfully, but in many (most?) others it's not so willful, it kind of happens in a complex way, where desire evaporates from various frictions that arise from negotiating a shared life.


Yes there are different levels of withholding... if a person says no to sex once in a while because they are truly tired or sick... I don't think it's an issue and not what we are talking about here.

Even when over a period of time, a person's desire starts to evaporate, if they withhold sex often or all the time it is a willful action/choice.

When we marry, we promise to not have sex with anyone but our spouse. Sex is a normal part of life. It is normal for a person to expect sex in marriage. 

When a person constantly or permanently refuses sex with their partner they are willfully doing so. There are many things that a person can do to get their desire back and to rekindle their sex life. It's a choice to not do what is needed to fix things.

We often read on this forum that when a woman loses desire for sex with her husband she still has a duty to have sex with him. Most posters will say that she has to put out or she's a bad wife. 

Do you think that a man should have to accept being constantly rejected by his wife and never have sex again if his wife choses to reject him?


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## jdoe (Apr 22, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> There are many things that a person can do to get their desire back and to rekindle their sex life. It's a choice to not do what is needed to fix things.


Can you please talk to my wife...?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jdoe said:


> Can you please talk to my wife...?


I'd be more than glad to. I do not get people, men or women, who do not understand that sex is an important part of a healthy marriage.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I'd be more than glad to. I do not get people, men or women, who do not understand that sex is an important part of a healthy marriage.


I agree, unless it is a mutually happy decision.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jld said:


> I agree, unless it is a mutually happy decision.


Of course... if both parties agree then it's marital bliss


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## jay1365 (May 22, 2013)

" I tell my wife that a man knows his wife loves him when she shares her body and she thinks that is the man's view. Well, it is not the man's view. It is basic biology and I am sure that more than 90% of men will not feel loved if their wife consistently withholds intimacy, no matter how good everything else in the marriage is. "

A small quibble. It is not basic biology. It is psychology. Biologically, males are engineered to "spread their seed" across an area as vast and wide as possible with as many partners as possible. It is our brains that make the deal with our bodies to trade our biological impulses for a "sure thing".


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I don't think that you can make case for the above any more than you can make a case men are genetically programmed to pick up a tree branch and nail anything moving and furry in their general direction.

In fact, considering that the institution of marriage has been around in its current form for a while only gives credence to the OPPOSITE... 

Humans evolve much faster than we give them credit for. Also, local customs and cultures influence this as well. You don't see Iraqi women for example sleeping around with many men even tho the male population was devastated since the 1980's.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I'd be more than glad to. I do not get people, men or women, who do not understand that sex is an important part of a healthy marriage.


Ehh.. In defense of a ld mindset(totally devils advocate here) it is likely tgat some women or men sincerely don't see sex as part of a marital bond. This is why if sex is important, the conversation needs to be had before engagement. And both parties need to be honest. As honest as a couple should be regarding how many kids they want or where they want to live or how in laws are to be handled.. Etc. If an agreement is made then it is easier to define and decide on the future of a marriage when one of these topics arises. 

It's not the same, but imagine if your lender never made you sign a payment agreement. They would have no right to take action if you stopped paying. It's all about communication and alignment. Without both, no dice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But BB, what you and many men are asking for is genuine, heartfelt, passionate sex, not just availability. She could promise you that for a lifetime, and really mean it at that time. She does not know how she is going to feel later. 

At some point, some of the men seem to throw up their hands and say it is her problem, her responsibility to fix it, and if she cannot, they're done.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

That is where positive role models are critical. J2 for example considers her late mother (certified BSC) a "strong woman" such that "her father was afraid of her "... 

In reality her father did a superb job of not living with her all that much during J2's formative years. Due to his job he lived in many cities around the country. In pure luxury of course but sans BSC mom. And moving every year.

This ended up fvcking up J2's mind to levels that 4 BPD's worth could not have. No ability to develop social skills or close friends, bad role models of an irrelevant BSC mom raising kids in the capital city, and of course her fathers work ethic (mid 80s still works part time) 

So, the marital bond becomes a parody, the spouses intentionally set up to skrew each other and their kids up, and absolutely no positive role model of what a non dysfunctional marriage looks like.

At least BSC mom got her karma's worth. Towards the last few years of her life her father pretty much took little care of her when she was sick, spent little time with her, and she basically died pi$$ed off with everyone else in the family. Depending on whom you believe he's now rooming with his housekeeper, a 50's widow . Go Grandpa!!!

BB is 100% right here, all these conversations need to happen early and often, and be repeated frequently for affirmation otherwise the spouses will have no common goals or points of reference.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John, did you read my post at all?


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

jay1365 said:


> " I tell my wife that a man knows his wife loves him when she shares her body and she thinks that is the man's view. Well, it is not the man's view. It is basic biology and I am sure that more than 90% of men will not feel loved if their wife consistently withholds intimacy, no matter how good everything else in the marriage is. "
> 
> A small quibble. It is not basic biology. It is psychology. Biologically, males are engineered to "spread their seed" across an area as vast and wide as possible with as many partners as possible. It is our brains that make the deal with our bodies to trade our biological impulses for a "sure thing".


What I meant when I said basic biology was in reference to how a man feels loved. Without the physical intimacy, a man will not feel loved (at least I believe most men feel that way). I don't feel that most women judge a man's love for her by his willingness to be physically intimate. But a man does feel that way and I believe it is in a man's nature. That is what I meant by basic biology. A woman can do everything for a man except be intimate and he will not feel loved. Let's say she doesn't cook, clean., iron his clothes, any of that, but she is kind and loving and intimate. He will feel loved.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> John, did you read my post at all?



I certainly did! And what triggered my response was the "she does not know how she is going to feel later" part. That's exactly where stereotypes and role models come into play.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

What do you mean?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

People formulate responses to situations following a number of ways, a hierarchy actually.

All this information comes from a variety of sources, classroom to family room. Since a lot of it is not always intuitive we often borrow from others experiences and external knowledge to formulate our responses. 

Role models and cultural stereotypes are the two primary sources of such external knowledge since stuff like that is not generally taught in more formal settings.

Having a reasonable and meaningful discussion about such basic topics early on establishes the framework which will be used later in the marriage to make decisions.

Or the lack of a framework. If one partner refuses to discuss or compromise that's a very valuable red flag early on. 

So you have to have such discussions early not because you will decide then and there how many kids you want but because you want to see how you decide on things together, manage conflict or disagreement, etc.

If you see that regardless of your arguments all you get is the cultural or family role model party line then you may want to reconsider future plans.

You don't marry the culture or family but the individual. If they can't differentiate then that's your answer.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Even then it isn't a guarantee. Young people often fall into the habit of subordinating their desires for the one they love. Only later do they build the strength required to be honest.

Nice guys... Girls that just want a ring... Low self esteem...

Someone who holds their ground may or may not be a better choice. It is situational.


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## JuJuBee (Jul 2, 2014)

I've been married now for just over 10 years. I have 5 children, 3 with my current husband and 2 from a previous relationship..the father of my first 2 children was a sex addict, I was constantly having to tell him no, because he wanted it multiple times a day every day, and it just got to be too much. I would even catch him at night masturbating above me while I was sleeping, or I would wake up with him already inside me. After 8 years with him, and dealing with his addiction to other things as well as sex I called it quits and moved on. When I first met my current husband everyone kept telling me he was either gay or a virgin, he was 30 and they never knew of him dating anyone or even talking about girls.. I figured maybe he was just shy so I started flirting with him and we went on a few dates.. It took 5 dates before he got up the nerve to even kiss me.. We finally had sex a few months into dating, it wasn't very good, but I figured it was something that could be worked on..I talked to him a bit about what kind of experiences he had before me (big mistake). He admitted the only experience he had ever had before me had been PAID for... He wasn't very adventurous sexually, but I was, he didn't mind being the recipient of sexual favors but didn't seem to like to return the favor. Again something I figured we could work on... After dating for about 6 months we were married, we started trying for children right away.. The sex still wasn't very good, but at least it was happening a few times a week.. But once I got pregnant the sex all but stopped.. I figured it was because he was a little freaked out about possibly hurting the baby, even though I tried to assure him it was fine.. Once the baby was born sex didn't pick back up right away, he started talking about wanting to have another baby right away.. This was my 3rd and I wasn't really too excited about the whole idea of it.. After I told him I wasn't ready to try again, he really lost interest in me. It went from once every week or so, to once every month or so until eventually 4-6 months would go by and nothing.. Now don't think I wasn't still interested and trying but he would constantly tell me how tired he was, or how much his back hurt, or his knees hurt, or he didn't feel like it..At first I was okay with it, but then I found out he was still masturbating to porn and jacking off in the shower almost daily.. That hurt, to know he would rather play with himself then with me. I got so depressed constantly being turned down that eventually I got to the point I stopped trying.. About 7 years into our marriage I did the unthinkable and cheated on him with a man I met on the internet.. I don't think my husband ever knew what I did, but I think he must have sensed something because all of a sudden he was interested in me again and wanting to have sex.. We got to talking and decided to start trying for another baby.. I stopped seeing my internet friend and and focused on trying to get pregnant with my husband... unfortunately it only took about a month of trying before I was pregnant again.. during this pregnancy I would say we probably only had sex about 2-3 times. When the baby was born it was a boy, we had hoped for a girl since we already had a boy together, and again he started talking about wanting to try again as soon as possible, but I wasn't ready..A few weeks after the baby was born he moved out of the bedroom and onto the couch. He said it was because the baby was keeping him up to much at night.. Just before the baby turned a year old we took a trip out of town without the kids to attend one of his work conventions, we had sex about 3 times that weekend it was the first time in a long time we had done it more than once in the same month, let alone the same week, I was so happy, but a month later I found out I was pregnant again, this time we only had sex once during the pregnancy, that was in April of 2013... My daughter was born in August 2013 and to this date we still have not had sex.. It's been over a year now, and I don't know what to do.. Neither one of us want any more children as 5 are more than we can handle. He has now moved into a different room in the house, and we have not slept in the same bed for almost 3 years now. Recently I have found myself visiting chat rooms and internet sites, today I visited a sex shop and bought a couple toys, I even told him I bought them, he just went to his room and shut the door. I am worried that if something doesn't change soon that I may either step out again or call it quits all together.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

JuJuBee said:


> I've been married now for just over 10 years....


Hello JuJuBee,

I found reading your post extraordinarily difficult, could you consider using paragraphs in you next post.

I am sorry you have had a bad run with your first husband.

Please realise it's never too late, so if you do find yourself in a relationship that just doesn't work and is irreconcilable you should consider letting that person go. Since you married him and had children with him I feel it is such a shame you have cheated on him and are even considering doing it again.

At the end of the day it was pretty obvious that he was not going to be a great sex partner yet you settled and thought things could be worked on. Which seldom works, we are who we are and can only change ourselves. It was highly unlikely he was going to become a better sex partner over time, yet you still married him despite this.

You then shamefully chose to cheat on him, the decent thing would have been to simply end the relationship yet you chose to egregiously betray him with another man. You are not the better person here, you should have simply ended the relationship and sought other partners, or reached agreement with him to have an open marriage. You also seem to have no remorse about this, although I may have missed it if you do, since you haven't used paragraphs. You aren't going to win much sympathy here for such behaviour (cheating).

You should probably leave him, so that he can find a better mate than you. Since you chose the man you have, with your eyes open and then cheated on him.

If you want to save your marriage you have a lot of work to do, you are simply not the victim here.

Good luck with your life and birth control, your husband deserves better.


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## Sporto (Jun 18, 2012)

Ashalicious said:


> I think there are ways to be intimate without actually having sex, and it is important, as a woman, to never forget that sex is a man's biggest, natural need, and he will always need satisfying. If I get to the point in my marriage where I cannot meet my husbands needs sexually, then how is it fair for me to say he cannot go have his needs met elsewhere?


Will you marry me!


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## RichieBanks (Jul 4, 2014)

I'm new here and only skimmed through all of these but, to answer the original question...

We met on a blind date and the girl who introduced us told me that my wife was wild. I had a reputation for only dating girls who weren't virgins or who were inhibited.

We had sex the third day we knew each other and regularly after that. I had one incident that gave me pause though. After a month long trip, she didn't want sex immediately. Red flags did go up but they were ignored after the first good sex!

We were married only three months after that blind date. For the first ten years we probably averaged sex twice a day and then once a day for the second 20. Then we became more normal and probably five times a week until about 5 years ago.

I always thought that our sex life would improve when we both retired but it seems the opposite. It seemed to drop off to once a month, then three or four times a year, and now it's been over two years.

When I tried to talk about it she said that she wasn't as lubricated and it was uncomfortable. But she doesn't want to seek medical help and that she's fine without intercourse anyway.

We tried playing but with no intercourse. She seemed to enjoy that but it was sure frustrating for me so now all we do, intimately, is hug and kiss (not passionately) every morning.

I asked her is she was interested in role-playing for fun and she said she didn't really like to do things like that. I just wanted to find something more than we have.

At my age, 66, and hers, 61 am I expecting too much? I just don't think that I'd want to consider an affair. There's just way too much potential for drama. I find some consolation with a bisexual friend I have online but it's just not fulfilling enough. Oh, and yes, she's aware of him so it's not like I'm cheating.

I just don't know if I really want to live that much longer with no hope for good sexual pleasures.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Ashalicious said:


> Before I ask my question, I just want to say that reading some of the posts on here make me sad, and they make my heart hurt. I would never wish some of the things I have learned that fellow TAM members are going through, on anybody.
> 
> My question for those in a sexless marriage is - Has your marriage always been sexless, or did this happen over time? What was life like before you got married, or while you were newlyweds?
> 
> Thank you in advance for answering my questions, I really appreciate it.





My husband and I went on blind date. He dated my cousin first who was kind of a "floozie" and he was not into that kind of thing. My aunt then set me and him up and because he desired a more respectable woman. So everyone assumed we were a perfect fit. He appears mannerly, appreciative, respectful, and like a great provider to everyone that knows him. I will get back to that in a moment. 

Prior to meeting my H, I was raped as a young teen by an older bf, i had a history of CSA (child sexual abuse). My uncle thought it was his job to educate me about sex at the age of 10 by showing me porn. I was raised in a strict christian family. I remembered throwing up and being sick for days after seeing this triple X movie. 

When I met my H things went ok. This was the first man I had been with that didn't make me so nervous I was sick. I used to throw up all the time form nerves. But not with him I was completely unafraid. He was kind, helpful, opened doors, pulled out chairs, respectful in all ways. We got engaged to be married after a 6 mo courtship. We had sex before we were married, but only after the engagement. 

I had spent a life time I suppose trying to forget about the CSA, the rape, and all the other things that I told no one about. When we started having sex I begin to wonder "What is wrong with me" This sex stuff is no fun, what is so great about sex that everyone is talking about. I didn't have O's. Sex didn't interest me to much. I knew it interested my H so I continued to let him have sex with me. After 6 mo of sex, I begin to dislike it very much. I protested and didn't want to do it. But he pushed and begged and pleaded and cohered until I agreed. (much like my rapist did in the past) My H got to the point where he would wine and dine me and I felt like it was partial payment for services that WERE going to be rendered. We would go to a hotel and I felt like a wh*ore. I had been bought. My services had been bought. I remember crying a few times when we had sex or crying afterwards. It was all I could do to keep from throwing up sometimes. I was young. I never thought about the past issues causing this problem in particular. I'd cry knowing this is what I was going to have to do to keep him around. I loved him so I did it. I didn't want to lose him, ya know. 

We got married. Things were going pretty smooth. 

The first year was great, no arguments, no ill words or anything. The next few years we had sex on a regular basis, once a week 
I suppose. Sometimes I would agree to it with no concerns. Other times he would beg, plead, question me, drill me, and just like the rape it was easier to give in then to continue to fight with him. So he got a lot of duty sex. 

Then 4 years later we had our first child. My sex drive went from zero to completely non existent. I lost 40 lbs from extreme morning sickness. After our child was born I went for my 6 week checkup and asked the Dr. to PLEASE PLEASE!!! write something saying I was not able to have sex at this time, I needed more healing time. He did, but he also told me, you don't ever have to have sex if you don't want to. But he didn't know what I knew. When that next 6 weeks was up I was so afraid. But we had sex and it was nothing monumental but it was alright, things continued that way. 

In the next 2 years, my H become abusive. In every way except physically. He never hit me. But all other ways you name it, he did it. I begin to suffer from depression and anxiety. He had OCD which I never new existed. I couldn't meet his OCD demands, his sexual needs, his needs of any kind in any way. I gave up on life. We did manage to have another child in the next two years. That complicated things greatly. I become a single mother of 2, with a man who came home expecting sex in return for the bills being paid. I was more like a live in nanny who had sex with the man with the paycheck from time to time.

Things deteriorated and we lived in a shell of a marriage for another 10 years. I had duty sex pretty much when ever my H asked. He had become very controlling, demanding, and was not doing that great of a job of taking care of our needs. We were cold at night, cold during he day. Our house was mainly a shelter. It kept us dry. I had no money, and no way to provide for my kids and myself. I should have left then, but I was so beaten down mentally I couldn't fathom leaving. In the duty sex we were having, I got pregnant again. (8 years after the last one) I didn't think things could get worse, but they did. 

The last child was indeed a blessing. The Lord opened a door and made an answer possible. After she was born everything compounded and I got misdiagnosed with postpartum depression and was given anti depressants. At the time the meds gave me my life back. But the real issues still existed. My H was angry I took meds. After 2 years I was demanded to get off of them by my H. So I went back to the doctors office. I remember crying my heart out at the Dr's office. Being the lost, not knowing how to deal with a crying woman kind of doctor that he was. He patted me on the knee and asked me "Had I considered counseling" He told me he would help me arrange it and the T could help me stop meds if that was what we thought was best. So I told my H and started T. I gained a lot of insight and a lot of personal growth, but never got off the meds. 

3 years later my H and I were seeking marriage T. One of the older kids had gotten in trouble in school. It was court ordered marriage T. This T just happened to specialize in Trauma's. (again the hand of the Lord) She knew something was going on. After a year of marriage T and individual T for me with her, I trusted her enough to tell her the whole truth. I was being abused by my H, I had a history of rape and my H didn't know. Hell I didn't know that it would follow me forever like it did. She helped me tell him what happened so long ago. For 18 years he didn't know. 

It has now been a little over a year since telling him. We just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary. Things are not good. Things are a constant struggle. But we are still in T, and we are still working on improving our relationship. We have days of ups and downs. He is no longer abusive, I am getting over 15 years of abuse from him. I am getting over Rape, I am getting over CSA. He has since gotten a diagnosis of Aspergers syndrome, an autistic disorder. Which my middle child has as well. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, depression, anxiety, and HSP issues (highly sensitive personality) I have a lot of work to do to fix me and he has work to fix him as well. Hopefully this marriage can be fixed and we can continue to remain married. 

No one ever said marriage was easy. People think it is going to be so easy for some reason. Just keep trying, and do the best you can do to make your self the person you want to be some day, and be the person that your spouse needs you to be as well. If you both try to do that then you will succeed. 

Best of luck to you. I am sorry this response was so long. I obviously had a lot of stuff I needed to say. Be careful what you ask huh. Someone just might take the time to answer.  (Like a lot of folks here have.)


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