# sex balance is there really a solution?



## Renlec (Nov 7, 2017)

I have read as many posts as I can and this post is repeating I admit. I cannot seem to find a satisfactory response to this relationship issue.
Firstly I wish to set a parameter with which (hopefully) a discussion will occur.
1) The relationship is a happy one where the couple have been together for over 20 years. They are 52 years old.
2) They are committed to each other for the rest of their lives. They have no desire to sperate.
3) When they have sex they both have no problem in having Orgasm in fact the female has multiple orgasms. 
They have no hangups with their bodies or sex.
Okay, so having set up a few rules the not uncommon problem is that they have differeing sex drives.
He wants to have sex 2 times a week, she wants to have sex once a month at most.
They have talked about it, they both understand the problem.
He is desperately frustrated. Having sex is almost a problem because it is a bit like being a heroin addict, when you have it, it makes you want it again straight away. If you go cold turkry, eventually (about 7 weeks) the body acclimitises. But then you are in a relationship with a friend not a wife. And you watch a beautifull woman parading past you every day which arouses you.
She is perfectly happy with the sex life because it occurs when she wishes it to. She feels quite guilty knowing he is unfull-filled but does not believe she has any duty or responsibility to help in this problem. His body, his problem.
Has anyone got thoughts on this?


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Are “they” married?


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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

So, to put the complaint in plain terms, you want more frequent fun, and your wife won't give you a hand. You're right. If that's the way it's going to be, I don't know of a solution. If it's left entirely to you to make up the deficit, I guess you do without or take your problem in hand and apply what Mark Twain called the "majestic diversion." Heck, it was good enough for monkeys, Queen Elizabeth I and Robinson Crusoe. 

It is, though, a little disquieting to hear this talked about as her "duty" or "responsibility." What about one just doing for the other because it's a nice thing to do. It costs nothing. If there are no hang-ups, and you're free to talk about sex, can she not bring herself to do anything for your needs without her being horned up herself?


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## Renlec (Nov 7, 2017)

Not sure it matters after 20 years plus?


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## Renlec (Nov 7, 2017)

Yes the words duty and responsibility carry bad connotations, I agree. The relationship is monogomous and so having sex outside the relationship to "fill in the gaps" is not an option. The man is not prepeared to be unfaithfull due to the associated guilt and feelings of betrayal that would bring to him. So who is left to sexually fullfill each other? I guess that is why i use those 2 words, perhaps there is some type of duty?
Masturbating relentlessly is very very over rated after a few years. As boredom sets in and diss-satisfaction increases it can also lead to more and more fetish type bahaviours to gain arousal. Again not something the man wants to do. So the systematic masturbation thing does not work effectively and if pornography is attached to the equation it can become a problem unto itself. Occasional masturbation is useful though.
The woman does not have a problem giving the man a hand job, the problem is it would have to be 7 or so times every month. That is just not something she would consider. 84 times a year, hmm doing something as a favour? You are not turned onyourself, you can sort of see why that would not be that attractive a proposition for her.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

doodsomedood said:


> Not sure it matters after 20 years plus?


Sure it does. Is there a reason you decided not to marry each other?


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## Renlec (Nov 7, 2017)

not a reason why we did or a reason why we did not grt married. Just not an issue. the relationship has already outlasted so many couples who "committed forever" and became married but divorced. I struggle to see what the line of reasoning is. I am gusessing you are exploring some sort of committment issue or something.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

If you find your sex life wanting and are not inclined to leave or cheat on your partner. Tell her that you are going to seek another, or others to meet your shortfall and do exactly that.

She will either accept that, meet your shortfall or let you go so you can pursue others unencumbered.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Do youn always over analyze every thing?

Insted of answering simple question you say bull **** like I don't know why that would matter blablabla.

Its never going to change.she has set the tone you get once a month and thats just enough to keep you around it has worked for twenty years. I wouldn't be suprised if she masterbating frequently. You might not be as good a lover that you think you are or she has not opened up to you what she really wants/likes. Maybe she embarrassed to really open up.
Does she read tons of romance novels? 

Unless your willing to rattle the cage and make her uncomfortable and fearfull that you might leave things won't change.


So she will help you out with handjobs but only once in awhile? Because she dosen't like doing favors for her man.I'll bet you do plenty of favors for her without making it a big deal


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Is this your relationship OP? If yes then why the talking in 3rd person?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Some problems can't be fixed - this is one of them. Accept it, divorce her, or negotiate an open relationship. I divorced my ex of over 20 years. in large part because of this issue. I am _much _happier now. If you stay it's _your _choice to remain unhappy.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Have either of you openly discussed each other's needs and not just sex? Have you read his needs her needs? A
How is open communication between the both of you?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

doodsomedood said:


> I have read as many posts as I can and this post is repeating I admit. I cannot seem to find a satisfactory response to this relationship issue.
> Firstly I wish to set a parameter with which (hopefully) a discussion will occur.
> 1) The relationship is a happy one where the couple have been together for over 20 years. They are 52 years old.
> 2) They are committed to each other for the rest of their lives. They have no desire to sperate.
> ...


Well, the "easy" solution is to have sex once a week. That's pretty much right in the middle of both your desires.

However, the reality is probably that once a month is already a compromise for her.

My opinion is that people who want sex infrequently, pretty much all fall within the same parameters. Whether it's once a month or once a year - same thing, IMO. The only difference being acquiescence to one's partner.

In other words, you're either sexual, or you're not. There's no exact dividing line in terms of frequency - rather it's just whether sex is at all a priority (even if it's 5th or 10th on the "list").

Whether you enjoy sex or not is actually very irrelevant. I fell into that trap years ago, as well. "But she likes sex, has lot of orgasms, etc." So what? Enjoying sex isn't out of the ordinary, and doesn't mean one is sexual, desires sex, needs sex, etc. It's a physical response - rub this for long enough, and this will happen. There are tons of highly sexual men and women who have difficulty orgasming, but they still crave sex and everything that goes with it. Just as there are tons of non-sexual men and women who can orgasm at the drop of a hat. Physical pleasure and the ability to have a physical response does not = sexuality.

Anyway, my opinion is that people who are sexual... have sex. Not "x-times" a month, or week - just whenever they feel like it. But that's the thing - feeling like it is a regular thing. It's a normal thing.

That said, when it's in the realm of once a month, I'm not convinced it's a desire at that point. Even though I literally just said it's not about a _specific frequency_. When you're in that territory, it's more of a "yeah, I guess so" or "it's been a month, so..." as opposed to "I need sex".

Sex is _supposed to be_, IMO, a 'whenever, wherever' thing. It's supposed to "just happen". Frequency is a fool's measurement, yet one we all so often use to determine a "good" sex life.

So for those of us who have a 'normal' drive - whatever that is - it's not about frequency so much as it is about a feeling. It just happens when it happens. My desire sparks her desire, and vice versa. Sometimes each person feels desire at the same time.

So the "ideal" is when you have two people who can spark that desire in the other. Unfortunately, all of these cases have one thing in common - that doesn't happen. This is from my own experience. I could have written this thread myself, but instead of once a month, it's once a week. But it's the exact same thing. It doesn't "just happen". So while it's once a week, here, and my wife is multi-orgasmic and enjoys sex - just like yours - it's the same story. The frequency is irrelevant.

When you have a low drive, it becomes a thought, IMO. A decision is made to have sex at this frequency. Or simply thinking "it's been a while, we should probably have sex". In other words, it doesn't happen naturally, organically, borne out of desire or need. It's literally a conscious decision.

And the bad thing about that, is when one partner views sex that way, while the other does not. It becomes an inorganic, non-naturally-occurring "thing" that requires some thought on behalf of one partner. And the other partner ALWAYS feels that, regardless of frequency.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

doodsomedood said:


> She feels quite guilty knowing he is unfull-filled but does not believe she has any duty or responsibility to help in this problem.


Does not compute. Someone who truly feels guilty about not meeting their spouse's needs will change their behavior. There's some other hangup here or some issue she's not telling you about. If I were you, I'd really push to get it out in the open. 

The analogy I like to use is back rubs. If your wife told you she needed a back rub 2-3 times a week, what would you do? You'd give her a back rub 2-3 times a week. Why? Because she's your wife and and she asked for it. Not only that, you'd pay close attention to her reaction when you rubbed various parts of her back. Maybe she really liked it when you rubbed her shoulder blade. You'd make a mental note of it and pay extra attention to the shoulder blade next time. Maybe you'd even read up on how to rub a shoulder blade better.

That's how it _should_ work. 

What kind of spouse would say this: "I know you like back rubs, honey, but... sorry, I can only do it once a month. But just to let you know, I feel really guilty about not meeting this need of yours. Have a nice day."


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

All kinds! It gets posted about almost every day!


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

doodsomedood said:


> She is perfectly happy with the sex life because it occurs when she wishes it to. She feels quite guilty knowing he is unfull-filled but does not believe she has any duty or responsibility to help in this problem. His body, his problem.
> Has anyone got thoughts on this?


She may 'understand the problem' but does she understand you are constantly unhappy (if you are)? She needs to be made to understand and it may take some frank language. I found 'once or twice a month SUCKS' eventually got through. Once a week is not too much to ask as a compromise.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

doodsomedood said:


> not a reason why we did or a reason why we did not grt married. Just not an issue. the relationship has already outlasted so many couples who "committed forever" and became married but divorced. I struggle to see what the line of reasoning is. I am gusessing you are exploring some sort of committment issue or something.




Not a commitment issue. A resentment issue. You obviously don’t know as much about her as you think you do. And you’re not willing to exert pressure or put the relationship on the line. I’ve been here 4 years. Never seen sexlessness fixed under those circumstances. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

doodsomedood said:


> She is perfectly happy with the sex life because it occurs when she wishes it to. *She feels quite guilty* knowing he is unfull-filled but does not believe she has any duty or responsibility to help in this problem. *His body, his problem.*
> Has anyone got thoughts on this?



@doodsomedood the wife is correct in that the husband in the marriage has to be responsible for his problems and he should not blame them on her. "Guilt" in a marriage will NOT serve either of the two spouses in any way that is constructive. Guilt will only serve to destroy the relationship. 

Having said that, the husband can be a man and admit that these problems are his to deal with and that ultimately he is responsible for them. He can however ask her to help. 

Asking your spouse for help is something altogether different than blaming your spouse and making that person feel guilty. It is human nature to want to help each other in a marriage and the starting point for making emotionally healthy compromises to help create balance.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Tatsuhiko said:


> Does not compute. Someone who truly feels guilty about not meeting their spouse's needs will change their behavior. There's some other hangup here or some issue she's not telling you about. If I were you, I'd really push to get it out in the open.
> 
> The analogy I like to use is back rubs. If your wife told you she needed a back rub 2-3 times a week, what would you do? You'd give her a back rub 2-3 times a week. Why? Because she's your wife and and she asked for it. Not only that, you'd pay close attention to her reaction when you rubbed various parts of her back. Maybe she really liked it when you rubbed her shoulder blade. You'd make a mental note of it and pay extra attention to the shoulder blade next time. Maybe you'd even read up on how to rub a shoulder blade better.
> 
> ...


That's a pretty good analogy, but still sold a little bit short. 

Not only would you do all those things, at the frequency desired, and do your best to be as good at it as you possibly can (studying, learning, paying attention to her responses, etc) ...

... but you would also ....

... experience joy and great satisfaction in having delivered such pleasure to your loved one. So much so that you would even begin to enjoy the act of its own accord rather than thinking of it as a favor or one-sided experience.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think you are posting in the third person because you are posting about my relationship. The description is spooky close. 

I've failed for 30 years to fix this and finally gave up. 

If your situation is like mine then:

She will *never* understand how important this is to you. You may be able to threaten her into sex under the fear that you will leave but she will never do it because she loves you or wants to make you happy. 

Her behavior will seem selfish because you know all the things you do for her. To her though sex is not like those things. She will remember the phrases "never have sex if you don't want it". and will believe that the statement "you would do XYZ (sex) for me if you loved me" is manipulative and abusive. 

Leave, cheat, live like a monk. Those are your sad choices. You've been at this 20 years, she isn't going to change. 

If you are more comfortable with no sex than with rare sex, then turn her down. Just tell her that you'd rather view her as a sister since she won't act as a wife. 
















doodsomedood said:


> I have read as many posts as I can and this post is repeating I admit. I cannot seem to find a satisfactory response to this relationship issue.
> Firstly I wish to set a parameter with which (hopefully) a discussion will occur.
> 1) The relationship is a happy one where the couple have been together for over 20 years. They are 52 years old.
> 2) They are committed to each other for the rest of their lives. They have no desire to sperate.
> ...


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

experienced yes. but a good friend gave me good advice. "Remember, all cats are gray in the dark"


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

doodsomedood said:


> Has anyone got thoughts on this?


I was a bit surprised to see that you are still trying to figure this problem out after being together so many years. Your wife or girlfriend probably has some good qualities, but being considerate doesn't seem to be on that list. It's also emasculating when you stay without her paying any attention to your sexual needs.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

A spouse who does not care about the sexual satisfaction of their spouse does not love their spouse. Sure, some really out there kinks should be avoided if someone does not like them, so those could be negotiated. But most types of sex should be any time.

That no actually just means I do not like you. No matter how much a spouse may claim otherwise.

That is how my wife and I have always lived.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

A big problem is that she is perfectly happy. You have to change that. Good thing about humans is they change. Hopefully for the better.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Not being married is relevant unless you've specifically discussed it and she's agreed.

We've seen quite a few times here on TAM where a guy in a long term relationship claims that being married isn't an issue and then finds out it is. 

Unless a woman really doesn't want to get married she's probably pissed off that you haven't married her, so why should she make extra effort for you?

That would be her perspective.

Have you discussed not getting married and she's specifically said she doesn't want it?

Also, we see time and time again where a guy doesn't get much sex but claims she has all these orgasms when it happens.

That is unlikely.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Just on this point.

My wife rarely wants sex. When we do, she does appear to have O's. She claims to have O's. She has let me know specific things that get her off and I do them. Sometimes she has O's rather suddenly before she is ready for the session to end (she is once-and-done). 

Its possible that she has been faking and lying for 30 years. If so, I really don't know what to suggest. A woman with a partner who is willing to do anything they want in bed, who fakes O's and won't ask for what she wants really only has herself to blame.


I think though that its possible to have Os and enjoy them, but to not want sex very often. Its also possible to be essentially "selfish" and enjoy O's but not want to go to the effort of doing anything for ones partner. 




lifeistooshort said:


> snip
> Also, we see time and time again where a guy doesn't get much sex but claims she has all these orgasms when it happens.
> 
> That is unlikely.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Just on this point.
> 
> My wife rarely wants sex. When we do, she does appear to have O's. She claims to have O's. She has let me know specific things that get her off and I do them. Sometimes she has O's rather suddenly before she is ready for the session to end (she is once-and-done).
> 
> ...



You could be right, and you certainly can't be expected to read her mind. She really owes it to you to be honest. 

It's just that women fake it all the time, partly because they worry about a guy's ego and partly because they don't know how to ask for what they want.

Assuming they even know what they want.

And sometimes they're just not that into the guy but want to shut him up. That's harsh but it is sometimes the case.

I've been fortunate in that i do orgasm most of the time with my hb, and when I can't he can handle me telling him that it's just not going to happen. But that could be because he gets me there a lot. This kind of deception is bad for marital intimacy.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I wish there were some way to convince people that long term faking is bad for all concerned. I understand someone doing it once in a while - though I think even that is not a good idea, but continuously? It just trains your partner to do all the wrong things.

I *think* in my case my wife isn't faking (or at least only rarely). The pattern is too irregular, occasionally inconvenient. (she gets too sensitive to touch after an O). 

Still its possible. It would be so sad if she gave up a lifetime of good sex that way. 







lifeistooshort said:


> You could be right, and you certainly can't be expected to read her mind. She really owes it to you to be honest.
> 
> It's just that women fake it all the time, partly because they worry about a guy's ego and partly because they don't know how to ask for what they want.
> 
> ...


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Also, we see time and time again where a guy doesn't get much sex but claims she has all these orgasms when it happens.
> 
> That is unlikely.


I have to disagree with this point. You can add me to the list of men who are married to wives who rarely desire sex, but yet have an orgasm when it does happen. In my case, it most often happens with a vibrator. If men were to proud to acknowledge that their wives really didn't climax with them, then many of those same men would also be too proud to acknowledge that their wives don't desire them often.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Also, we see time and time again where a guy doesn't get much sex but claims she has all these orgasms when it happens.
> 
> That is unlikely.


Like many other posters, I find this comment a little odd...

Assuming this is true I think it is more correct to say that time and time again some guys put way too much focus on orgasms while perhaps neglecting other important aspects of intimacy causing a decline in frequency. 

That seems more likely...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Like many other posters, I find this comment a little odd...
> 
> Assuming this is true I think it is more correct to say that time and time again some guys put way too much focus on orgasms while perhaps neglecting other important aspects of intimacy causing a decline in frequency.
> 
> That seems more likely...


Both happen--which is more likely? Impossible to say without serious scientific study.

More than a few women on these boards have responded to threads complaining of lack of frequency with some variation of "is she having orgasms?" so clearly it is important to some women and may be a frequency driver in many cases. 

Moreover, many men on these boards have done all they possibly can in paying attention to "other important aspects of intimacy" and have little to show for it. 

Of course, orgasm (or lack thereof) is an easy target and many guys just seem to naturally gravitate there. But it's only natural to follow the logic train of orgasms are pleasurable--more pleasure means more desire--more desire means more sex. Ergo if sex is lacking, it is the result of lack of pleasure/orgasm. It is, of course, often more complicated than that, but for those who are busting their balls trying to do everything else right, that seems to be the only remaining solution.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Both happen--which is more likely? Impossible to say without serious scientific study.
> 
> More than a few women on these boards have responded to threads complaining of lack of frequency with some variation of "is she having orgasms," so clearly it is important to some women and may be a frequency driver in many cases.
> 
> ...


Generally speaking intimacy never responds well to setting goals, particularly if the goal is to increase frequency.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

doodsomedood said:


> I have read as many posts as I can and this post is repeating I admit. I cannot seem to find a satisfactory response to this relationship issue.
> Firstly I wish to set a parameter with which (hopefully) a discussion will occur.
> 1) The relationship is a happy one where the couple have been together for over 20 years. They are 52 years old.
> 2) They are committed to each other for the rest of their lives. They have no desire to sperate.
> ...


Been there done that. My wife and I are in our late 60's and been married for 46+ years. A few thoughts.

The mind is your and your spouses biggest sex organs and it is easily fooled.

I discovered that Chapman's 5 love languages can make one feel loved and cherished and they really are not about sex. While post orgasmic sex bonding (after care) does make one feel emotionally close to a spouse, there are other ways to become emotionally close or at least help maintain emotional closeness.

There are ways to turn non-sex into a form of sex if both people are into it (not for everyone). There are lots of kinky ways not to have PIV that provide lots of people sexual pleasure (chastity play, tease & denial, one partner verbally encouraging the other to masturbate in front of them, foot/breast sex, etc.). Perhaps there is something that the LD partner can do what would help the HD partner to better cope.

Perhaps the HD partner can masturbate if (s)he needs the endorphine rush you refer to. I know it is not the same, but maybe with more non-sexual cuddling or being loved more in his love languages he can find happiness.

One of the hardest things to learn about my wife was that even though her desire for sex was noticeably less than mine, she still really liked sex, just not as often. There is nothing wrong with her, she just doesn't like sex as frequently as I do. She doesn't need to be fixed or changed. She isn't wrong. It is just who she is. And I am just who I am.

A final thought, from someone who has been there. This couple needs to sit down and really talk about their feelings and desires with no shaming or trying to make the other partner feel guilty. They need to push to reach a new compromise that both can live with. A compromise is not one winning and the other loosing. It is not either of them giving in on a hard boundary. Often times, people need the help and independence of a 3rd party in doing the hard negotiations to get to a compromise. If so, a Sex Therapist might help them both.

Good luck to your friends.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Generally speaking intimacy never responds well to setting goals, particularly if the goal is to increase frequency.


But in many cases, it's the lack goal setting that _follows_ the lack of frequency. You've reversed cause and effect. Whether it's the goal of more frequent sex, or a goal of more frequent orgasms, the relationship doesn't start with these goals. It's only after years of infrequent, unenthusiastic sex that one partner wakes up and realizes what he/she has been missing. Then the thoughts of frequency creep in, as is to be expected.

Even then, it's not usually even active goal setting, just an acknowledgement that the status quo is unsatisfactory (which, of course, is also something intimacy doesn't respond well to, but can not go unaddressed any longer if the relationship is to survive). If it actually evolves into actual goal setting, it doesn't generally do so until the disinterested partner says "So what would be enough for you?" (thus destroying his/her own possible interest in intimacy)

It's a total catch 22. You are getting no frequency or enthusiasm, but asking for those things will prevent getting those things. It's the closest thing I've seen to a real-life Kobiyashi Maru.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> *It's a total catch 22. You are getting no frequency or enthusiasm, but asking for those things will prevent getting those things. It's the closest thing I've seen to a real-life Kobiyashi Maru.*


This is not a catch 22, it is a failure to evolve. When a relationship is new, frequency and enthusiasm have a tendency to revolve around give and take. At a certain point in the relationship these "give and take training wheels" have to come off and intimacy will fall down and hurt emotionally until you get back up and have the courage as a couple to just confidently be yourselves. 

At this point "frequency" and "enthusiasm" are no longer things you can ask to _take_ from the relationship. You can no longer expect to _get_ these things. 

Many people go through this and perhaps experience it as a "bait and switch" once the training wheels of the relationship come off. At that point the relationship gets real and nothing is easy anymore. Does this mean that "enthusiasm" and "frequency" are gone? No, on the contrary those things are still there, but they will now be genuine and will respond to the overall health of the relationship.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

badsanta said:


> This is not a catch 22, it is a failure to evolve. When a relationship is new, frequency and enthusiasm have a tendency to revolve around give and take. At a certain point in the relationship these "give and take training wheels" have to come off and intimacy will fall down and hurt emotionally until you get back up and have the courage as a couple to just confidently be yourselves.
> 
> At this point "frequency" and "enthusiasm" are no longer things you can ask to _take_ from the relationship. You can no longer expect to _get_ these things.
> 
> Many people go through this and perhaps experience it as a "bait and switch" once the training wheels of the relationship come off. At that point the relationship gets real and nothing is easy anymore. Does this mean that "enthusiasm" and "frequency" are gone? No, on the contrary those things are still there, but they will now be genuine and will respond to the overall health of the relationship.


First, you assume symmetry in frequency desire at the start of a relationship, which isn't always the case. 

As for courage, you rightly state "courage as a couple." The problem is that all too often, it's only one half of the couple who chooses to evolve. 

My whole point was that many people do not simply "expect to get these things," but rather that they work constantly at evolving the relationship and still see little to no results. 

And to round this out, many such relationships are perfectly healthy, even exemplary, in every other area. Supportive, caring, loving, quality time, handling finances, moral/spiritual agreement, agreement in parenting, etc. Everything else is absolutely perfect or darn near close to it... and still there can be a huge disconnect in sex.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

*this* is sometimes the central problem. 

My wife is *happy*. She thinks our marriage is great. She does not understand / believe that sex is important. If I stop making her happy, she sees that as a childish response to my wanting something trivial: sex. Being a "strong willed' person, she isn't going to give in to that sort of pressure. If I keep making her happy she thinks everything is OK. 

There is nothing that will make her want sex. She might be threatened into it, but that really isn't the point. 

Everything else is great. 







Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> snip
> 
> And to round this out, many such relationships are perfectly healthy, even exemplary, in every other area. Supportive, caring, loving, quality time, handling finances, moral/spiritual agreement, agreement in parenting, etc. Everything else is absolutely perfect or darn near close to it... and still there can be a huge disconnect in sex.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> And to round this out, many such relationships are perfectly healthy, even exemplary, in every other area. Supportive, caring, loving, quality time, handling finances, moral/spiritual agreement, agreement in parenting, etc. Everything else is absolutely perfect or darn near close to it... and still there can be a huge disconnect in sex.



I disagree...

A "huge disconnect in sex" in an otherwise perfect relationship means that someone is glossing over the big picture to try and paint the perfect relationship that they think they want as opposed to what the relationship actually needs.

That is kind of like saying you have the perfect home that is energy efficient, very clean, functions well for entertaining, everyone has their own space, and it is darn near perfect... still there is a huge disconnect with having any running water. ...so seriously can a home be perfectly healthy, even exemplary without running water? Well, there are many out there that can still make that work somehow as people are adaptable. But at the end of the day running water to drink, and in particular hot water to bathe in each day is what most people say makes a home a home.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

badsanta said:


> I disagree...
> 
> A "huge disconnect in sex" in an otherwise perfect relationship means that someone is glossing over the big picture to try and paint the perfect relationship that they think they want as opposed to what the relationship actually needs.
> 
> That is kind of like saying you have the perfect home that is energy efficient, very clean, functions well for entertaining, everyone has their own space, and it is darn near perfect... still there is a huge disconnect with having any running water. ...so seriously can a home be perfectly healthy, even exemplary without running water? Well, there are many out there that can still make that work somehow as people are adaptable. But at the end of the day running water to drink, and in particular hot water to bathe in each day is what most people say makes a home a home.


Your analogy fits what I'm saying perfectly. (I often use a similar one about a beautiful car with a fine body, luxurious interior, powerful engine, but a faulty transmission, so that it's overall performance is still lackluster at best). When I say everything else about the marriage is exemplary, I do not imply that the marriage itself is exemplary. Indeed, the outstanding disconnect is bound to harm the overall marriage in a significant way. 

No conflict between our posts in any way on this particular point.


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## Renlec (Nov 7, 2017)

I have been working and so now is the first time I have been able to get back to this conversation. Wow, thanks everyone for a great communication. I was really keen to see if anyone had connected to the topic, I was sure it was an old chestnut and possibly done to death already but it is still real in every sense of the word to so many people. Only one mild hater, gotta be happy with that. Much to think about. Thanks LIFE IS TOO SHORT for explaining the relevance to being married or not, it has certainly given me pause to think. We have discussed marriage quite a few times. My understanding is that many women desire sex most when they feel emotionally fully connected so if there is a lingering doubt, be it only in the sub-concious perhaps, then removing that restriction by marrying could possibly open the sex frequency flow just that little bit to at least alleviate the discrepancy in frequency.

Why did I speak in the third person? I was not sure myself but having carefully read, and will reread many times these posts, I realized it was because I am not angry, I wanted to discuss the issue and so presented it as a conundrum if you like. Sort of paint a picture. It is is not man or woman, it is a relationship situation. No hate.
Now that I have read direct replys, I find I must talk in the first person because I am being adressed directly and I can not speak for my partner (not married). That would be foolish and a waste of time.

I feel a kindred spirit towards those people who posted here and others who are living with this issue. They know how debilitating it is and how so many people disregard it as some miniscule issue. The sort yourself out brigade (masturbate) or just get over it type responses.

I also acknowledge those who have had the courage to move on and find new beginnings.

I guess when I met the woman I have spent most of my adult life with I did not understand that sexual frequency is one of the most important compatibility questions to be aware of. I wonder where that is in the marriage manual? 

Finally ! (Turning into a wall of text)
Thanks to "Alexm" for those most usefull observations. 
Thanks also to "young at heart" for his wisdom.
I am the same as so many men. I love my wife/partner, I comprehend what physical intimacy and a nuturing relationship is. It is not all about a hard-on and somewhere to stick it. I continue to evolve. I have so much to learn.
Dont worry I am not going all zen like here, I will wake up tomorrow with an itch that once again wants to be scratched, but not just by me. ( That was an attempt at humour, hope you see that)


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## davep1128 (Oct 3, 2017)

I have thought this a lot. It’s crazy to me. Women love to have this control and it does drive men to looking at others, pornography, masterbation, and the ultimate cheating on their wives. It is not a fair process for a man when married to a woman who lives like this. Sad to say!


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## KatrinaR (Nov 10, 2017)

I agree with a lot of the advice you've gotten: in the end, she's not going to change because it is not important enough to her to change.

When you do have sex, what prompts it? Does she give in? Is it organic and just happens? Is it scheduled?

If organic, maybe try to figure out what lead to the intimacy and try replicating that? If she's simply giving in b/c it's been a while or worse if it is scheduled, I'm not sure what to say other than talk to her and let her know that that is not the kind of life you wish to lead.

Best wishes....


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Tatsuhiko said:


> Does not compute. Someone who truly feels guilty about not meeting their spouse's needs will change their behavior. There's some other hangup here or some issue she's not telling you about. If I were you, I'd really push to get it out in the open.
> 
> The analogy I like to use is back rubs. If your wife told you she needed a back rub 2-3 times a week, what would you do? You'd give her a back rub 2-3 times a week. Why? Because she's your wife and and she asked for it. Not only that, you'd pay close attention to her reaction when you rubbed various parts of her back. Maybe she really liked it when you rubbed her shoulder blade. You'd make a mental note of it and pay extra attention to the shoulder blade next time. Maybe you'd even read up on how to rub a shoulder blade better.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more with this. I've used this very same analogy with my wife.

This is just not how sex is, unfortunately. It's that one thing that you can't use any sort of daily life comparison with. The same rules don't apply to sex. They never do.

For whatever reason, people like my wife, @uhtred 's wife, and many others (husbands, too!) just have this block. Doesn't matter how much logic you use, how much logic they see, how understanding they are, how much they recognize the issue. Even if they actually like and enjoy sex. It's truly bizarre to most of us.

Attempting to figure it out is futile, IMO. Certainly there are cases where this block is due to something such as past trauma, or guilt, or shame - those can be dealt with professionally (if the person is willing, that is). But in many cases, there's no one single 'reason' for it. It just is. To even further complicate matters, sometimes if there was trauma, guilt or shame, the person isn't even aware of it in the first place.

Human sexuality is such a complicated matter that even trained professionals can have a hard time diagnosing. And even then, the person needs to be willing to change in the first place.

I don't ever want to say something is a lost cause, but when it comes to a sexual mismatch... well... the odds aren't good.

I've been running in circles for half a decade now, trying to understand something I likely never will. My wife LIKES sex. She likes sex with me. We've never had _bad_ sex. She can be a freak in bed, and there's not much we haven't tried (and that she's liked).

There's no reasonable explanation, including from her, as to why it's so difficult to get there in the first place.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*If he realized that she was an “8-Weeker” going in to the marriage, then the fault is primarily his because he knew of her unreasonable expectations as well as her unwilling attitude in ever changing them!

If she were more acquiescing in the courtship phase to more freely engage in sex with him, then the fault is solely hers for attempting a “bait and switch” in trying to reel him in matrimonially!

With that being said, this should have all ended way back in their courtship days! This is blatantly placing fear and dishonesty in front of romantic love and passion!*


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

lifeistooshort said:


> Also, we see time and time again where a guy doesn't get much sex but claims she has all these orgasms when it happens.
> 
> That is unlikely.


I'm sure this happens far more than many of us know, but it's also quite the blanket statement, IMO.

This subject was brought up many years ago here, at a time that it didn't occur to me. That made me start to doubt myself.

I obviously can't say for certain that my wife doesn't fake O's (or hasn't), but I'm also confident enough in her, and in me, to believe she doesn't. Apart from our sexual mismatch, obviously, she and I do actually communicate. She knows (I HOPE) that something like not having an O is not going to hurt me. She knows that I don't base my ego on my (real or perceived) sexual prowess.

Basically, whether she has an O, or multiple O's during sex with me is a non-issue, as far as my ego goes. She knows this. Yes, I'm happy if she does, obviously, but it's never, never been about me or my ego. I've made this clear to her. Although I DO focus on her pleasure, it's still very very balanced.

What I HAVE noticed, is that she only occasionally has a truly good, mind-blowing O. I'm experienced enough (and also thanks to TAM) to know that not all O's are equal. I'd say that about 1/4 of her orgasms are like that. I have yet to figure out exactly what triggers those. I'm not sure it's anything specific. They just happen when they happen.

Bottom line - just because a woman doesn't crave sex doesn't mean she's not capable of orgasms. Not all women are equal, either. Orgasms are part physical, part mental. Some women require more of one than the other for orgasms. My wife is far more on the physical side, I think. My ex wife was almost purely mental. No orgasms from me, or anyone else before me. Only through a vibrator, and even then, it could take 20 minutes or more. And I don't ever recall her having much more than a "small" orgasm, at that.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I was thinking more about this and I think its quite possible that women in HD/LD relationships get *more* O's. In a well matched relationship, its easy for someone to become a lazy lover. You see lots of posts here by women who's partners sound like terrible lovers - but they still have sex. 

In a HD/LD relationship the HD is often willing to do / try *anything* to get sex. When they do, they go out of their way to try to make it as good as possible for the LD so that it will happen again. This of course increases the HD's feelings that the sex life is unfair and that they are being taken advantage of. In some cases I expect that they are. 




lifeistooshort said:


> snip
> 
> Also, we see time and time again where a guy doesn't get much sex but claims she has all these orgasms when it happens.
> 
> That is unlikely.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I was thinking more about this and I think its quite possible that women in HD/LD relationships get *more* O's. In a well matched relationship, its easy for someone to become a lazy lover. You see lots of posts here by women who's partners sound like terrible lovers - but they still have sex.
> 
> In a HD/LD relationship the HD is often willing to do / try *anything* to get sex. When they do, they go out of their way to try to make it as good as possible for the LD so that it will happen again. This of course increases the HD's feelings that the sex life is unfair and that they are being taken advantage of. In some cases I expect that they are.


That's an interesting thought. I guess in cases where a LD has limited interest they could still O with a partner who's willing to do anything for them. 

I think that is less likely with one who's not turned on by their partner, which can be mistaken for low drive.

I can see how the former case could make one feel taken advantage of. I doubt it's the intent.....we have to be careful not to evaluate situations bases on our own lens.

Many LD's will make what seems like effort for them, but for hd it's still not enough. Why would ld make any effort at all in such a case? It's tough to reconcile basic incompatibility.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Yes, there is a lot of variation in what people describe as LD/HD and as you say its all to easy to may one's one experience onto other situations .

One form of LD seems to be an interest in very low frequency sex, to still enjoy sex when they want it. This seems to be the case with my wife. I'm willing to do anything she wants in bed and have tried to learn the best ways to please her. She really doesn't want to go to much effort for me. That leads to the question of whether I should stop putting any effort in to please her. That could go either way - she might make more effort for me in order for me tot to back to pleasing her OR she might be content with no sex at all. I suspect the second - which is just a lose all around. 

This leads to the natural imbalance. When the LD can take or leave it, they have all the control. The HD can either give up sex entirely (a lose) or they can go to lots of effort to please the LD and get very little in return (also a lose). The LD is happy either way. 





lifeistooshort said:


> That's an interesting thought. I guess in cases where a LD has limited interest they could still O with a partner who's willing to do anything for them.
> 
> I think that is less likely with one who's not turned on by their partner, which can be mistaken for low drive.
> 
> ...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

uhtred said:


> ... This leads to the natural imbalance. When the LD can take or leave it, they have all the control. The HD can either give up sex entirely (a lose) or they can go to lots of effort to please the LD and get very little in return (also a lose). The LD is happy either way.


Or, the HD can leave. It is _one _solution that _can_ lead to a much better, happier sex life. Of course, there is no guarantee - but at least there is hope.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Yes, that is almost certainly the best approach to improving the HD's sex life. If sex were the only issue, I would have left 25 years ago .





Married but Happy said:


> Or, the HD can leave. It is _one _solution that _can_ lead to a much better, happier sex life. Of course, there is no guarantee - but at least there is hope.


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## davep1128 (Oct 3, 2017)

Exactly what I'm going through and I'm 39.

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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

You can no longer provide her exciting premarital bad boy sex. You traded in your six pack for a keg. She hit the wall but you just want some wet warm place to stick it. Your seed is no longer needed and is quite frankly very messy. She will take everything and the dog in divorce. You play by her rules.

Or you can change it up and put her on defense. But it's easier maintaining the status quo and your hand feel pretty good too.


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