# New here and needing some unbiased opinions!



## Yogi_bear

Hi All, I am new here and looking for some thoughts on best way to handle this situation.

A few years ago now (pre pandemic) my husband went to a strip club on a work trip in Vegas. It was a lap dance bar and I found out he had multiple lap dances there. Wasn’t super happy about it. Today we were talking about it, as ever since then I’ve struggled with body image issues with my breasts - I’m a cup size A after having and Brest feeding 3 babies. I was always smaller (b cup) but even smaller since babies. The reason the topic came up so many years later was because he is always pestering me for nude pictures. I have sent him some and tried to keep things spicy in our relationship, but he keeps asking for more and honestly I feel it's harder for me to do sexy photos on my own due to my lack of cleavage and the like, so I was telling him that.

So I was explaining to my husband how it made me feel crappy to know he was touching (yes he confirmed he was touching and fondling) other women's big breasts - something I lack and I felt this was disrespectful and crossed a line in our marriage. I never had issues with my breasts in our relationship until I found out he went to the lap dance bar and spent hundreds on lap dances. He also lied to me about it initially and slowly things came out. So this triggered my past insecurities (years of dealing with mens comments and opinions - my boyfriend before I met my husband argued that he wanted me to get implants and it really ruined our relationship - among other things! 

Move forward a few hours and he brings up me getting breast implants. He started researching and finding pictures of them to show me, without me asking. Also knowing I’m deathly afraid of any surgery and also have mixed feelings about them as I’ve known ppl who got implant illness and ultimately had to remove the implants to regain better quality of life. Anyway, my husband has a friend he works with whose wife had breast augmentation surgery last year. He told me he messaged him and he said they were “only 13k”. I didn’t say much to it as I didn't even say I wanted them. Later I saw on his phone this conversation, as it was open. I read that he told his friend that I want breast implants because my boobs "never grew to their full natural size” because I played sports and my coaches "trained me too hard". His friend was encouraging of me getting them. Then he went on to talk about how we will have hot tub parties with our wives with big boobs once it’s done. This really upset me for many reasons- first, I’m pretty sure my boobs DID grow to their natural size, it’s just smaller than most. I am a smaller person as well. Second, it upset me that when I bring up how it affected me he was touching these other girls breasts, the first thing he goes to is making mine the same as theirs. Thirdly, I didn't ask him to tell his friend ANY of that, it was a private conversation between us and a personal issue that I deal with. I don't even talk to my closest friends about it (often, I have brought it up occasionally when dealing with assholes, or after having kids etc). Also, telling his friend that I WANT them because I didn't grow to my natural size. Like WTF? I have so many thoughts and feelings about this comment. I had told him how some guys made you feel like you had a deformity unless you were a certain size. Well, this comment almost was along the same lines to me - something that didn't form properly. Also, I have no intention of getting a boob job, for many reasons, and now he has told his friend that I am so I feel that will make things a bit awkward between us when we all hang out - he will no doubt tell his wife, and who knows who else as this friend has a big mouth (loves to talk about others). I also feel a little betrayed that my husband would turn to a friend to share my most personal insecurity with. This is a guy who my husband was worried to tell that other companies were trying to poach him, because he was worried that he would tell others in his company before he made his decision on what to do. Yet, he has no problems sharing this very personal issue with him without even discussing it with me first.

I have so many feelings about this and would like others input about the situation. I don't want to talk about it to our friends as I try to keep our "dirty laundry" between us. So thought an anonymous board might be the way to go. 

I can't deny my feelings about it but his first reaction when I talked to him about the texts between his friend about me was to get angry at me. He says I'm ridiculous and anytime he tries to "help me" with this issue (my small boobs) it causes problems. I didn't think I wanted help with it, just to talk about how it made me feel. Am I being ridiculous?


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## Mr. Nail

.


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## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> Hi All, I am new here and looking for some thoughts on best way to handle this situation.
> 
> A few years ago now (pre pandemic) my husband went to a strip club on a work trip in Vegas. It was a lap dance bar and I found out he had multiple lap dances there. Wasn’t super happy about it. Today we were talking about it, as ever since then I’ve struggled with body image issues with my breasts - I’m a cup size A after having and Brest feeding 3 babies. I was always smaller (b cup) but even smaller since babies. The reason the topic came up so many years later was because he is always pestering me for nude pictures. I have sent him some and tried to keep things spicy in our relationship, but he keeps asking for more and honestly I feel it's harder for me to do sexy photos on my own due to my lack of cleavage and the like, so I was telling him that.
> 
> So I was explaining to my husband how it made me feel crappy to know he was touching (yes he confirmed he was touching and fondling) other women's big breasts - something I lack and I felt this was disrespectful and crossed a line in our marriage. I never had issues with my breasts in our relationship until I found out he went to the lap dance bar and spent hundreds on lap dances. He also lied to me about it initially and slowly things came out. So this triggered my past insecurities (years of dealing with mens comments and opinions - my boyfriend before I met my husband argued that he wanted me to get implants and it really ruined our relationship - among other things!
> 
> Move forward a few hours and he brings up me getting breast implants. He started researching and finding pictures of them to show me, without me asking. Also knowing I’m deathly afraid of any surgery and also have mixed feelings about them as I’ve known ppl who got implant illness and ultimately had to remove the implants to regain better quality of life. Anyway, my husband has a friend he works with whose wife had breast augmentation surgery last year. He told me he messaged him and he said they were “only 13k”. I didn’t say much to it as I didn't even say I wanted them. Later I saw on his phone this conversation, as it was open. I read that he told his friend that I want breast implants because my boobs "never grew to their full natural size” because I played sports and my coaches "trained me too hard". His friend was encouraging of me getting them. Then he went on to talk about how we will have hot tub parties with our wives with big boobs once it’s done. This really upset me for many reasons- first, I’m pretty sure my boobs DID grow to their natural size, it’s just smaller than most. I am a smaller person as well. Second, it upset me that when I bring up how it affected me he was touching these other girls breasts, the first thing he goes to is making mine the same as theirs. Thirdly, I didn't ask him to tell his friend ANY of that, it was a private conversation between us and a personal issue that I deal with. I don't even talk to my closest friends about it (often, I have brought it up occasionally when dealing with assholes, or after having kids etc). Also, telling his friend that I WANT them because I didn't grow to my natural size. Like WTF? I have so many thoughts and feelings about this comment. I had told him how some guys made you feel like you had a deformity unless you were a certain size. Well, this comment almost was along the same lines to me - something that didn't form properly. Also, I have no intention of getting a boob job, for many reasons, and now he has told his friend that I am so I feel that will make things a bit awkward between us when we all hang out - he will no doubt tell his wife, and who knows who else as this friend has a big mouth (loves to talk about others). I also feel a little betrayed that my husband would turn to a friend to share my most personal insecurity with. This is a guy who my husband was worried to tell that other companies were trying to poach him, because he was worried that he would tell others in his company before he made his decision on what to do. Yet, he has no problems sharing this very personal issue with him without even discussing it with me first.
> 
> I have so many feelings about this and would like others input about the situation. I don't want to talk about it to our friends as I try to keep our "dirty laundry" between us. So thought an anonymous board might be the way to go.
> 
> I can't deny my feelings about it but his first reaction when I talked to him about the texts between his friend about me was to get angry at me. He says I'm ridiculous and anytime he tries to "help me" with this issue (my small boobs) it causes problems. I didn't think I wanted help with it, just to talk about how it made me feel. Am I being ridiculous?


I'm sorry but I really don't like your husband very much, particularly on this topic. Maybe he's great in other areas, idk.

I didn't see how old you were or how long you've been together?

My main 'baseline' thinking is that he married you for you. (or should have).
Any kind of self-improvement ideas between the both of you should not involve such drama between you two. If it does, he should move on and forget it!
Good for you for now going down a road you're uncomfortable with.

I don't get the focus on one body part. I (m58) totally get admiring a woman's body but comparing my wife to something I see in others? Not on your life.

OP be proud of who you are and don't let hubby push you around. Good on you for doing it so far.
Stand your ground and tell him to keep his **** in his pants and stop lusting over another pair of tits unless he wants to do it after you leave him.

With a man like him, strippers should be 100% off limits and I'd be real concerned about any lady friends, including his friends wife. Don't trust him.

OP I'm sorry you're here with this problem and I wish you the best.

if you don't get many comments in this "welcome" forum you might try reposting in the "General Relationship" forum.








General Relationship Discussion


Although anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## BeyondRepair007

Mr. Nail said:


> If your husband pops into here we will have plenty more advice to him.


Amen to this. Pleeeease invite him


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## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I'm sorry but I really don't like your husband very much, particularly on this topic. Maybe he's great in other areas, idk.
> 
> I didn't see how old you were or how long you've been together?
> 
> My main 'baseline' thinking is that he married you for you. (or should have).
> Any kind of self-improvement ideas between the both of you should not involve such drama between you two. If it does, he should move on and forget it!
> Good for you for now going down a road you're uncomfortable with.
> 
> I don't get the focus on one body part. I (m58) totally get admiring a woman's body but comparing my wife to something I see in others? Not on your life.
> 
> OP be proud of who you are and don't let hubby push you around. Good on you for doing it so far.
> Stand your ground and tell him to keep his **** in his pants and stop lusting over another pair of tits unless he wants to do it after you leave him.
> 
> With a man like him, strippers should be 100% off limits and I'd be real concerned about any lady friends, including his friends wife. Don't trust him.
> 
> OP I'm sorry you're here with this problem and I wish you the best.
> 
> if you don't get many comments in this "welcome" forum you might try reposting in the "General Relationship" forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> General Relationship Discussion
> 
> 
> Although anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.talkaboutmarriage.com


Thank you for commenting. I appreciate your perspective. I don't get focusing on one body part either but have dealt with it in other relationships too (worse). We have been together for 12 years, have 3 kids, and he will be 40 this year (mid life crisis?).


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## ShatteredKat

Hello

I find saying anything without using a lot of negativity to be beyond my pay grade.

I will say you have a very

*disrespective*


spouse who has some serious boundary problem(s).

Also some suspicion that he doesn't think much of you as a person - regardless of your married status (to him.)


He needs some "counseling" with someone who understands what it is like to have your physical being negatively criticised and especially so as it is "what nature bestowed on you."


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## Talker67

guys are not allowed to touch women's breasts as they get a lap dance. there are a couple big bouncers, named Bruno and Stitch, who insure that policy is strictly followed in all topless bars.

as far as breast implants....i can see if he has a big breast fetish (some guys do) how he would want you to get them. but how do YOU feel about it? its your body. feel free to tell him to jump into a lake if you do not want them.


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## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> Hi All, I am new here and looking for some thoughts on best way to handle this situation.
> 
> A few years ago now (pre pandemic) my husband went to a strip club on a work trip in Vegas. It was a lap dance bar and I found out he had multiple lap dances there. Wasn’t super happy about it. Today we were talking about it, as ever since then I’ve struggled with body image issues with my breasts - I’m a cup size A after having and Brest feeding 3 babies. I was always smaller (b cup) but even smaller since babies. The reason the topic came up so many years later was because he is always pestering me for nude pictures. I have sent him some and tried to keep things spicy in our relationship, but he keeps asking for more and honestly I feel it's harder for me to do sexy photos on my own due to my lack of cleavage and the like, so I was telling him that.
> 
> So I was explaining to my husband how it made me feel crappy to know he was touching (yes he confirmed he was touching and fondling) other women's big breasts - something I lack and I felt this was disrespectful and crossed a line in our marriage. I never had issues with my breasts in our relationship until I found out he went to the lap dance bar and spent hundreds on lap dances. He also lied to me about it initially and slowly things came out. So this triggered my past insecurities (years of dealing with mens comments and opinions - my boyfriend before I met my husband argued that he wanted me to get implants and it really ruined our relationship - among other things!
> 
> Move forward a few hours and he brings up me getting breast implants. He started researching and finding pictures of them to show me, without me asking. Also knowing I’m deathly afraid of any surgery and also have mixed feelings about them as I’ve known ppl who got implant illness and ultimately had to remove the implants to regain better quality of life. Anyway, my husband has a friend he works with whose wife had breast augmentation surgery last year. He told me he messaged him and he said they were “only 13k”. I didn’t say much to it as I didn't even say I wanted them. Later I saw on his phone this conversation, as it was open. I read that he told his friend that I want breast implants because my boobs "never grew to their full natural size” because I played sports and my coaches "trained me too hard". His friend was encouraging of me getting them. Then he went on to talk about how we will have hot tub parties with our wives with big boobs once it’s done. This really upset me for many reasons- first, I’m pretty sure my boobs DID grow to their natural size, it’s just smaller than most. I am a smaller person as well. Second, it upset me that when I bring up how it affected me he was touching these other girls breasts, the first thing he goes to is making mine the same as theirs. Thirdly, I didn't ask him to tell his friend ANY of that, it was a private conversation between us and a personal issue that I deal with. I don't even talk to my closest friends about it (often, I have brought it up occasionally when dealing with assholes, or after having kids etc). Also, telling his friend that I WANT them because I didn't grow to my natural size. Like WTF? I have so many thoughts and feelings about this comment. I had told him how some guys made you feel like you had a deformity unless you were a certain size. Well, this comment almost was along the same lines to me - something that didn't form properly. Also, I have no intention of getting a boob job, for many reasons, and now he has told his friend that I am so I feel that will make things a bit awkward between us when we all hang out - he will no doubt tell his wife, and who knows who else as this friend has a big mouth (loves to talk about others). I also feel a little betrayed that my husband would turn to a friend to share my most personal insecurity with. This is a guy who my husband was worried to tell that other companies were trying to poach him, because he was worried that he would tell others in his company before he made his decision on what to do. Yet, he has no problems sharing this very personal issue with him without even discussing it with me first.
> 
> I have so many feelings about this and would like others input about the situation. I don't want to talk about it to our friends as I try to keep our "dirty laundry" between us. So thought an anonymous board might be the way to go.
> 
> I can't deny my feelings about it but his first reaction when I talked to him about the texts between his friend about me was to get angry at me. He says I'm ridiculous and anytime he tries to "help me" with this issue (my small boobs) it causes problems. I didn't think I wanted help with it, just to talk about how it made me feel. Am I being ridiculous?


Your husband is a self-serving a hole. You should be blowing up over this crap, all of it. Especially the way he's spreading stuff about you and your breasts not developing normally. What horse crap. And how insulting. And to go and talk to other people about that. You should ream him over that and not listen to any of his responses trying to gaslight you about it and make it your fault after he's the one that's manufactured this whole problem. 

You are a normal and normally formed woman whose husband cheated on you by getting lap dances in a strip club. And now he thinks the most important thing is that his penis is happy and what now makes his penis happy is looking at huge boobs that are not normal and are not normally formed at all but manufactured. 

He does not deserve one iota of consideration in this. I don't know how you can even stand to still sleep with him after all these insults and trying to act like you're some kind of freak when he's the one that's the freak with the problem. 

I am so sorry if you feel like you have to stay with him for some reason. You certainly deserve better. Every woman does.


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## BeyondRepair007

DownByTheRiver said:


> Your husband is a self-serving a hole. You should be blowing up over this crap, all of it. Especially the way he's spreading stuff about you and your breasts not developing normally. What horse crap. And how insulting. And to go and talk to other people about that. You should ream him over that and not listen to any of his responses trying to gaslight you about it and make it your fault after he's the one that's manufactured this whole problem.
> 
> You are a normal and normally formed woman whose husband cheated on you by getting lap dances in a strip club. And now he thinks the most important thing is that his penis is happy and what now makes his penis happy is looking at huge boobs that are not normal and are not normally formed at all but manufactured.
> 
> He does not deserve one iota of consideration in this. I don't know how you can even stand to still sleep with him after all these insults and trying to act like you're some kind of freak when he's the one that's the freak with the problem.
> 
> I am so sorry if you feel like you have to stay with him for some reason. You certainly deserve better. Every woman does.


I normally don't agree with 'harsh' reactions, I tend to support a softer approach in relationships.

But in this case @DownByTheRiver is spot on.
100% agree.

@Yogi_bear you should let loose on his ass with both feet.


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## DownByTheRiver

You should let your parents and any siblings know about all this because at some point you may need some support at the drop of a hat. Your friends, too. You also might tell his mother. He already breached the "too personal to share with others" rule, so he can't now object if now you do. You shouldn't keep this between you and him. He needs to know that anytime he acts like a horrible person, everyone in your life is going to know. Then maybe he'll think twice before being a shallow jackass.


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## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Amen to this. Pleeeease invite him


I have asked him to come to therapy with me in the past, but he refuses.


Talker67 said:


> guys are not allowed to touch women's breasts as they get a lap dance. there are a couple big bouncers, named Bruno and Stitch, who insure that policy is strictly followed in all topless bars.
> 
> as far as breast implants....i can see if he has a big breast fetish (some guys do) how he would want you to get them. but how do YOU feel about it? its your body. feel free to tell him to jump into a lake if you do not want them.


he absolutely DID touch them and said the women out his hands there as he didn’t think he could touch either. I have heard of others being able to touch in this specific bar as well.
I made it clear how I feel about it- I don’t want them. I just feel like him sharing this info with his friend was a violation and shouldn’t have been shared- also I feel it’s totally made up based on his own idea of what happened. Eg. “She MUST not have developed properly because she is only an A cup so must have been the sports she played growing up”.

just not sure where to go with it now as I’ve shared how I feel, he got upset. Sulked for a day and then apologized but it feels insincere. Only that he’s sorry that it’s affecting him and his sex life and not how it’s actually made me feel?


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## Openminded

Your husband’s a jerk (but I’m sure you already know that). He’s not the right person to have talks with about sensitive subjects since he can’t be trusted not to blab every word you say to the world — and he’s not actually sympathetic anyway. As to his big boob wish, if that’s what he had to have then he should have married someone else. Don’t let him talk you into something you don’t really want.


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## Openminded

Now that there are tons (literally) of fake boobs out there, people tend to forget that natural boobs come in all sizes and an A cup isn’t unusual. Your husband really is a very stupid person if he actually does think you didn’t develop “normally” because of sports. I’d be wondering why I was with him if he had a problem with my body type.


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## Diana7

This man has had sexual contact with several women so he is a cheat. That would have been more than enough for me to end the marriage. 
Now he wants you go through surgery you don't need with the all the many risks involved for his sake. Then he shares deeply personal issues with another person. 
It's hard to see why you would want to stay with this man.


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## DownByTheRiver

Talker67 said:


> guys are not allowed to touch women's breasts as they get a lap dance. there are a couple big bouncers, named Bruno and Stitch, who insure that policy is strictly followed in all topless bars.
> 
> as far as breast implants....i can see if he has a big breast fetish (some guys do) how he would want you to get them. but how do YOU feel about it? its your body. feel free to tell him to jump into a lake if you do not want them.


Oh, that's BS. They rub their boobs all over them, but guys are not allowed to use their hands, but everyone knows strippers do more in the back room and that lap dances are sitting on the man, putting your boobs in his face and grinding on his erect penis until he gets off or tips you, whichever happens first. It's prostitution. Plus many of those strippers do sex work afterhours. In Las Vegas, I don't even think there ARE any rules. It's prostitution everywhere.


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## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> I have asked him to come to therapy with me in the past, but he refuses.


Yeah. People who know they're wrong never want to go to therapy. They'd rather just see how far they can get bullying their spouse into submission.


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## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> I have asked him to come to therapy with me in the past, but he refuses.
> 
> he absolutely DID touch them and said the women out his hands there as he didn’t think he could touch either. I have heard of others being able to touch in this specific bar as well.
> I made it clear how I feel about it- I don’t want them. I just feel like him sharing this info with his friend was a violation and shouldn’t have been shared- also I feel it’s totally made up based on his own idea of what happened. Eg. “She MUST not have developed properly because she is only an A cup so must have been the sports she played growing up”.
> 
> just not sure where to go with it now as I’ve shared how I feel, he got upset. Sulked for a day and then apologized but it feels insincere. Only that he’s sorry that it’s affecting him and his sex life and not how it’s actually made me feel?


Of course it's insincere, because he still wants big fake boobs to make his penis happy. This man is not thinking with his head brain. I don't see how this will ever work out. He's cheated once and he's probably cheated other times and/or gone to local strip clubs doing the same thing, and if he can't have the big boobies he wants, he'll take that as justification to just keep right on cheating -- because his priorities are ALL wrong. 

Tell him if he wants big fake boobs so much, to go get himself a pair on his own chest and he can stare and play with them all he wants and that way, he won't miss having sex with you so much.


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## Openminded

It may be vanity surgery but it’s still surgery and with it comes risk. When I was much younger, a friend of a friend had that surgery and didn’t wake up. Eventually, she was moved into long-term care and then I lost track of my friend so I don’t know the outcome but certainly no one expected her to wake up one day and go about her life and she very likely didn’t. When you have to have surgery, the risk is mitigated by necessity but vanity surgery is another story. Important enough to risk not waking up? Not for me.


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## EleGirl

@Yogi_bear

I merged your two threads into this one. it's better to have only one thread on a topic. You will get better input this way.


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## BeyondRepair007

Openminded said:


> It may be vanity surgery but it’s still surgery and with it comes risk. When I was much younger, a friend of a friend had that surgery and didn’t wake up. Eventually, she was moved into long-term care and then I lost track of my friend so I don’t know the outcome but certainly no one expected her to wake up one day and go about her life and she very likely didn’t. When you have to have surgery, the risk is mitigated by necessity but vanity surgery is another story. Important enough to risk not waking up? Not for me.


Regardless of risk, body shaming is body shaming. Even if it was zero risk, I still applaud her saying no.

He's her husband for crying out loud, he should be her champion not her ridiculer.
Sorry, I'm not coming off at you @Openminded ... just him. The risk he wants to expose her too just makes everything even worse.

He annoys me and she deserves better from a husband.


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## Zedd

1. your hubby is kinda a bag of ****s for doing this
2. small chested women are hot too. Kristen Bell - Hot. Ariana Grande - Hot. Natalie Portman - Hot. 

Get over your insecurity and own it. My ex-wife was a 36D. My current wife is a 32A. My wife was super-jealous of my ex (they're very good friends now.) I finally told her to knock it off and we went and got her hooked up with someone that helped her pick out stuff that was flattering and super sexy for her body type. Now, they're both jealous of what the other can wear on a night out on the town. A lot of "love that, wish I could pull it off" in both directions.

Just own what ya got and tell him to f-off and be a man.


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## Openminded

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Regardless of risk, body shaming is body shaming. Even if it was zero risk, I still applaud her saying no.
> 
> He's her husband for crying out loud, he should be her champion not her ridiculer.
> Sorry, I'm not coming off at you @Openminded ... just him. The risk he wants to expose her too just makes everything even worse.
> 
> He annoys me and she deserves better from a husband.


Yes, she deserves a lot better. And if I were her I’d be seriously thinking about that.


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## Yogi_bear

Openminded said:


> It may be vanity surgery but it’s still surgery and with it comes risk. When I was much younger, a friend of a friend had that surgery and didn’t wake up. Eventually, she was moved into long-term care and then I lost track of my friend so I don’t know the outcome but certainly no one expected her to wake up one day and go about her life and she very likely didn’t. When you have to have surgery, the risk is mitigated by necessity but vanity surgery is another story. Important enough to risk not waking up? Not for me.


ABSOLUTELY! This is one of my main fears of surgery in general! I’m supposed to get surgery on my thyroid and I keep pushing it (with doctors approval) because of this unknown- we don’t know what will happen. I take surgery very seriously. My mum had spinal surgery and almost didn’t wake up.
Getting the surgery is not a possibility. I just am hurt he shared all this with a guy who is a friend but not super close to. I feel he also insulted me with his comments. I just feel there’s so much to unpack here. He claims he wanted the surgery for me however I got hair dye a few months ago because I have a few strands coming in and I wanted to dye my hair to make me feel better- low risk, cheap not invasive! He hid the box of dye and I can’t find it. He said I don’t need it and don’t need to change. However, talking about this and he’s researching and messaging a friend about major surgery that costs 13k and I never said I wanted it? Possibly because it would benefit him more? I struggle with this all.


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## Diana7

Openminded said:


> It may be vanity surgery but it’s still surgery and with it comes risk. When I was much younger, a friend of a friend had that surgery and didn’t wake up. Eventually, she was moved into long-term care and then I lost track of my friend so I don’t know the outcome but certainly no one expected her to wake up one day and go about her life and she very likely didn’t. When you have to have surgery, the risk is mitigated by necessity but vanity surgery is another story. Important enough to risk not waking up? Not for me.


Plus even if you survive many are left with terrible scars and deformities after surgery went wrong.


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## Diana7

Yogi_bear said:


> ABSOLUTELY! This is one of my main fears of surgery in general! I’m supposed to get surgery on my thyroid and I keep pushing it (with doctors approval) because of this unknown- we don’t know what will happen. I take surgery very seriously. My mum had spinal surgery and almost didn’t wake up.
> Getting the surgery is not a possibility. I just am hurt he shared all this with a guy who is a friend but not super close to. I feel he also insulted me with his comments. I just feel there’s so much to unpack here. He claims he wanted the surgery for me however I got hair dye a few months ago because I have a few strands coming in and I wanted to dye my hair to make me feel better- low risk, cheap not invasive! He hid the box of dye and I can’t find it. He said I don’t need it and don’t need to change. However, talking about this and he’s researching and messaging a friend about major surgery that costs 13k and I never said I wanted it? Possibly because it would benefit him more? I struggle with this all.


You seem less worried that he sexually cheated with several women. To me that is just as bad if not worse.


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## Talker67

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh, that's BS. They rub their boobs all over them, but guys are not allowed to use their hands, but everyone knows strippers do more in the back room and that lap dances are sitting on the man, putting your boobs in his face and grinding on his erect penis until he gets off or tips you, whichever happens first. It's prostitution. Plus many of those strippers do sex work afterhours. In Las Vegas, I don't even think there ARE any rules. It's prostitution everywhere.













i agree though, if you are in a brothel, all bets are off


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> ABSOLUTELY! This is one of my main fears of surgery in general! I’m supposed to get surgery on my thyroid and I keep pushing it (with doctors approval) because of this unknown- we don’t know what will happen. I take surgery very seriously. My mum had spinal surgery and almost didn’t wake up.
> Getting the surgery is not a possibility. I just am hurt he shared all this with a guy who is a friend but not super close to. I feel he also insulted me with his comments. I just feel there’s so much to unpack here. He claims he wanted the surgery for me however I got hair dye a few months ago because I have a few strands coming in and I wanted to dye my hair to make me feel better- low risk, cheap not invasive! He hid the box of dye and I can’t find it. He said I don’t need it and don’t need to change. However, talking about this and he’s researching and messaging a friend about major surgery that costs 13k and I never said I wanted it? Possibly because it would benefit him more? I struggle with this all.


Every time you post, I like hubby less and less.


Find your strength, don't let him do stupid stuff to you.

And keep posting here. There are a TON of smart people here that can help you though just about anything.


----------



## Anastasia6

Your husband is being unreasonable and disrespectful.

1st touching other women is a dealbreaker for me. The strip club is also a dealbreaker unless some reallllllly good explanation. The couple hundred on lap dances is a dealbreaker for me.

I would divorce him just on those things. This is something he chose. I don't want to be married to someone like that.

But you chose to stay. So let's deal with the next parts.

Trying to change you when he knows you are not going to change. Telling his friend you want them and such. Very disrespectful and frankly it bodes to the future. His plan is now to just wear you down. He thinks he's getting implants in you. You see you aren't a real live person but his Barbie doll to dress up or change how he wants. You are the same person he married with small boobs now he's convinced himself he needs bigger boobs. We've had several men stop by TAM and whine about how they can't even get turned on anymore by their wives with small boobs and trying to figure out how to get implants. He seems no different.

So as to the conversation. I have to say the part about talking to his friend about the topic didn't really bother me. People need outlets. I would be concerned about him telling his friend you didn't grow to your natural size. I would be concerned about him saying you want them. I would be concerned about how the spa party is going. I would be concerned that next he'll want to wife swap or something. It's hard to tell if he just wanted to be in the big boob wife club or if there was some _wink wink_ going on there.

Frankly I'll get bashed here but I'm curious does he watch porn? What is he all of a sudden un happy with your bra size?

Lastly I"d like to say. I'm sorry. I hate to see when people are terribly ill-suited to each other and I don't see much way forward. I think you could do all kinds of things and I think you could stay married another 10 years or so..... But I don't see it going well. Mainly because he doesn't respect you and the sanctity of the marriage. He doesn't respect you or your body autonomy. He isn't going to be happy if he doesn't get his way and soon he'll have to explain to his friend he lied or he'll have to bug you into it. Let's say you don't get them and he stops bugging you. Will you ever feel safe and secure in the relationship? Will you ever not have body issues? Will this lead to less sex and then him being mad about that and your building resentment. I just don't see how in the long run this is going to work. So might as well start the pain of divorce and the joy of dating while you are still young and fit and petite and can build and enjoy life with someone who loves you and respects you.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Talker67 said:


> View attachment 83819
> 
> 
> 
> i agree though, if you are in a brothel, all bets are off


I can assure you there are at a minimum, BJs in the champagne room many places, but it isn't legal. What a shock they would do it anyway. Sometimes they take it offsite.


----------



## Yogi_bear

Diana7 said:


> Plus even if you survive many are left with terrible scars and deformities after surgery went wrong.


Yes and I’ve known a few who had implant illness and had to have them removed years later anyways. My health is wayyy too important for that. I have 3 small children to raise plus a daughter who had a birth defect and I also want to send strong messages to her about positive body image. I feel an unnecessary surgery kinda negates that, personally.


----------



## Anastasia6

Yogi_bear said:


> just not sure where to go with it now as I’ve shared how I feel, he got upset. *Sulked for a day and then apologized but it feels insincere. Only that he’s sorry that it’s affecting him and his sex life and not how it’s actually made me feel*?


Yep and remember. He isn't really sorry. He's sorry you didn't cave. He's sorry it's affected his sex life. But he'll be back. He won't leave you because he'll have a hard time finding the next barbie doll and of course she won't be perfect either. But he won't stop wanting to change you because he hasn't done anything that shows he is sorry or that he no longer wants big boobs. He is just sorry you are are mad and he isn't having fun.

So would counseling change that? Or just make him settle for small boobs? Are you ok with that?


----------



## Yogi_bear

Diana7 said:


> You seem less worried that he sexually cheated with several women. To me that is just as bad if not worse.


Definitely not. This is how this conversation began in the first place. It’s been years of me trying to work through this issue. I’ve been told I’m overreacting, it’s not cheating- he doesn’t feel it’s cheating and wouldn’t care if I did the same. He’s encouraged me to but I don’t want to. I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall with that issue but it does keep coming up.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> Yes and I’ve known a few who had implant illness and had to have them removed years later anyways. My health is wayyy too important for that. I have 3 small children to raise plus a daughter who had a birth defect and I also want to send strong messages to her about positive body image. I feel an unnecessary surgery kinda negates that, personally.


Arguably the most powerful motivator of all. Doing right by your kids. Love it.
Too bad hubby doesn't share that desire.


----------



## Yogi_bear

Anastasia6 said:


> Your husband is being unreasonable and disrespectful.
> 
> 1st touching other women is a dealbreaker for me. The strip club is also a dealbreaker unless some reallllllly good explanation. The couple hundred on lap dances is a dealbreaker for me.
> 
> I would divorce him just on those things. This is something he chose. I don't want to be married to someone like that.
> 
> But you chose to stay. So let's deal with the next parts.
> 
> Trying to change you when he knows you are not going to change. Telling his friend you want them and such. Very disrespectful and frankly it bodes to the future. His plan is now to just wear you down. He thinks he's getting implants in you. You see you aren't a real live person but his Barbie doll to dress up or change how he wants. You are the same person he married with small boobs now he's convinced himself he needs bigger boobs. We've had several men stop by TAM and whine about how they can't even get turned on anymore by their wives with small boobs and trying to figure out how to get implants. He seems no different.
> 
> So as to the conversation. I have to say the part about talking to his friend about the topic didn't really bother me. People need outlets. I would be concerned about him telling his friend you didn't grow to your natural size. I would be concerned about him saying you want them. I would be concerned about how the spa party is going. I would be concerned that next he'll want to wife swap or something. It's hard to tell if he just wanted to be in the big boob wife club or if there was some _wink wink_ going on there.
> 
> Frankly I'll get bashed here but I'm curious does he watch porn? What is he all of a sudden un happy with your bra size?
> 
> Lastly I"d like to say. I'm sorry. I hate to see when people are terribly ill-suited to each other and I don't see much way forward. I think you could do all kinds of things and I think you could stay married another 10 years or so..... But I don't see it going well. Mainly because he doesn't respect you and the sanctity of the marriage. He doesn't respect you or your body autonomy. He isn't going to be happy if he doesn't get his way and soon he'll have to explain to his friend he lied or he'll have to bug you into it. Let's say you don't get them and he stops bugging you. Will you ever feel safe and secure in the relationship? Will you ever not have body issues? Will this lead to less sex and then him being mad about that and your building resentment. I just don't see how in the long run this is going to work. So might as well start the pain of divorce and the joy of dating while you are still young and fit and petite and can build and enjoy life with someone who loves you and respects you.


Sorry I should have clarified, the part that bothered me is WHAT he told his friend- the part that I didn’t develop properly and now want implants. Complete bull crap! And it seemed like he was committing to it for me so now how does one explain it when I don’t have them?
He does watch porn. He’s also been really into the idea of threesomes lately. I am not. I did all that when I was younger and now im married and content (or was). He blames it on never having those experiences when he was younger. I don’t really care.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> ABSOLUTELY! This is one of my main fears of surgery in general! I’m supposed to get surgery on my thyroid and I keep pushing it (with doctors approval) because of this unknown- we don’t know what will happen. I take surgery very seriously. My mum had spinal surgery and almost didn’t wake up.
> Getting the surgery is not a possibility. I just am hurt he shared all this with a guy who is a friend but not super close to. I feel he also insulted me with his comments. I just feel there’s so much to unpack here. He claims he wanted the surgery for me however I got hair dye a few months ago because I have a few strands coming in and I wanted to dye my hair to make me feel better- low risk, cheap not invasive! He hid the box of dye and I can’t find it. He said I don’t need it and don’t need to change. However, talking about this and he’s researching and messaging a friend about major surgery that costs 13k and I never said I wanted it? Possibly because it would benefit him more? I struggle with this all.


He's the only one it would benefit. He's being totally self-serving here. He's not thinking of you at all. He thinks risking your life is worth it for big boobs. 

If you want to dye your hair, do it. He's given up all rights to determine your appearance by showing it's all about him and not you at this point.


----------



## Diana7

Yogi_bear said:


> Definitely not. This is how this conversation began in the first place. It’s been years of me trying to work through this issue. I’ve been told I’m overreacting, it’s not cheating- he doesn’t feel it’s cheating and wouldn’t care if I did the same. He’s encouraged me to but I don’t want to. I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall with that issue but it does keep coming up.


You and he have very different moral values. For many people sexual touching is definitely cheating and is a deal breaker. Do you think that maybe you are enabling it by not giving him any consequences? By staying with him despite the cheating?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> Yes and I’ve known a few who had implant illness and had to have them removed years later anyways. My health is wayyy too important for that. I have 3 small children to raise plus a daughter who had a birth defect and I also want to send strong messages to her about positive body image. I feel an unnecessary surgery kinda negates that, personally.


Yes, and the message your send your children are very important. It will form who they are.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> Sorry I should have clarified, the part that bothered me is WHAT he told his friend- the part that I didn’t develop properly and now want implants. Complete bull crap! And it seemed like he was committing to it for me so now how does one explain it when I don’t have them?
> He does watch porn. He’s also been really into the idea of threesomes lately. I am not. I did all that when I was younger and now im married and content (or was). He blames it on never having those experiences when he was younger. I don’t really care.


He sounds like a spoiled child. I hope you have your own money just in case you need it.


----------



## Yogi_bear

Diana7 said:


> You and he have very different moral values. For many people sexual touching is definitely cheating and is a deal breaker. Do you think that maybe you are enabling it by not giving him any consequences? By staying with him despite the cheating?


I don’t feel I’m enabling it. Divorce is easier said than done for a lot. We have 3 children and a special needs child. I am very isolated in terms of support. He does provide support and help me with our kids a lot and is a good dad. Outside of these issues he does treat me well. Sounds weird I know, which is why when these things come up I am so thrown off. I do feel we view things VERY differently and he’s just not understanding where I’m coming from which is why I thought therapy might help. When the Vegas thing happened I spoke to a few friends and it was 50/50 on those who didn’t think it was an issue and those who thought it was crossing the line/borderline cheating. I felt it was full on cheating but was made to feel like a prude because of it (not just by him but others too) so I felt unsettled with that issue but not convinced it was a hill to die on especially if he never did it again. However, this issue feels like a huge violation to the trust in our relationship and im embarrassed by what he said to his friend about my boobs. He has moved into the basement of our home now. I am figuring stuff out. His parents are to come stay with us at the end of this year (they’re from Australia) and I’m considering telling his mum what’s going on, so they won’t be surprised when they get here if things are very very different.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes, and the message your send your children are very important. It will form who they are.


Not to mention you have a lot more important things to keep you occupied than this trivial thing, and SO SHOULD HE.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> I don’t feel I’m enabling it. Divorce is easier said than done for a lot. We have 3 children and a special needs child. I am very isolated in terms of support. He does provide support and help me with our kids a lot and is a good dad. Outside of these issues he does treat me well. Sounds weird I know, which is why when these things come up I am so thrown off. I do feel we view things VERY differently and he’s just not understanding where I’m coming from which is why I thought therapy might help. When the Vegas thing happened I spoke to a few friends and it was 50/50 on those who didn’t think it was an issue and those who thought it was crossing the line/borderline cheating. I felt it was full on cheating but was made to feel like a prude because of it (not just by him but others too) so I felt unsettled with that issue but not convinced it was a hill to die on especially if he never did it again. However, this issue feels like a huge violation to the trust in our relationship and im embarrassed by what he said to his friend about my boobs. He has moved into the basement of our home now. I am figuring stuff out. His parents are to come stay with us at the end of this year (they’re from Australia) and I’m considering telling his mum what’s going on, so they won’t be surprised when they get here if things are very very different.


Wow, great guy. Still.

So what’s this about the basement? Did he move there because of a fight about the boobs or the cheating or both? Or something else? Are you two talking about separation or divorce? Or is this a typical hissy fit?

Strippers, porn, pushing for threesomes and boobjobs… yea. Mr Wonderful.
Talking nonsense about you to his friends. I think he’s gone off the rails.

Was he always weird like this or only recently? How was the first part of your marriage?

Brace yourself, this sounds like it will get a lot worse before it gets better.


----------



## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Wow, great guy. Still.
> 
> So what’s this about the basement? Did he move there because of a fight about the boobs or the cheating or both? Or something else? Are you two talking about separation or divorce? Or is this a typical hissy fit?
> 
> Strippers, porn, pushing for threesomes and boobjobs… yea. Mr Wonderful.
> Talking nonsense about you to his friends. I think he’s gone off the rails.
> 
> Was he always weird like this or only recently? How was the first part of your marriage?
> 
> Brace yourself, this sounds like it will get a lot worse before it gets better.


No hissy fit. I just am having a hard time sleeping next to him after this. I feel it’s a combo of all the above. The strippers and then talking to his friend about my boobs and them basically not developing properly so I want to get a boob job. This all just happened yesterday so I’m trying to figure stuff out - what’s salvageable and is it worth it? Would therapy help? I feel like he has a lot of work to do to make this up to me but not sure what or if it will work. I work full time and am the primary caregiver for my 3 kids. 
He was a great guy at the start of our relationship. Everything was about me in terms of him always being there for me and what made me comfortable etc. super supportive at the start and never once mentioned my boobs being too small. It is something I opened up to him about a few years ago because my bf before him told me to get a boob job and I wouldn’t. Our relationship inevitably ended.
He moved countries without hesitation because I wanted to, left behind his childhood friends and family. Our oldest son is adopted (within family adoption) and he didn’t hesitate to agree as it was us or foster care for him and he took him in like he was biologically his and never looked back. This is our special needs child so there are some wonderful qualities about him as not every man could/would do that especially as we were just starting our marriage together. It’s been stressful for sure! Our life has not been easy. Not everyone’s is, but we’ve also had extra challenges because of this.
The last few years - as he’s approached 40- he has changed slightly in the fact I feel he is unhappy with our sex life or me and is always trying to spice things up. However lately I’m left feeling more like I’m not good enough for him anymore than I did at the start of our relationship. Not sure if this is a mid life crisis or what but it’s still not cool to me and needs addressing.


----------



## Jeffsmith35

I find small boobs hot. But I'm not a "boob man". Interestingly, I wasn't breastfed as a baby - so perhaps that's why 🤔


----------



## snowbum

Ok. A lot to take on. 

1. Your husband spent hundreds on lap dances and fondling boobs he lied about? Strike 1. 
2. He actually said you developed abnormally? To another guy? strike 2
3. Insisting on a boob job for his benefit that you don't want ? Strike 3
4. Not feeling he did anything wrong? He's beyond out
5. You earn the money- WTH do you care if he's around?

He's not a good dad. Good dad's love their children's mom's. Men who love their wives don't act like this. A 40 year old acting like this is ridiculous. Leave his sorry ass.


----------



## Anastasia6

Yogi_bear said:


> No hissy fit. I just am having a hard time sleeping next to him after this. I feel it’s a combo of all the above. The strippers and then talking to his friend about my boobs and them basically not developing properly so I want to get a boob job. This all just happened yesterday so I’m trying to figure stuff out - what’s salvageable and is it worth it? Would therapy help? I feel like he has a lot of work to do to make this up to me but not sure what or if it will work. I work full time and am the primary caregiver for my 3 kids.
> He was a great guy at the start of our relationship. Everything was about me in terms of him always being there for me and what made me comfortable etc. super supportive at the start and never once mentioned my boobs being too small. It is something I opened up to him about a few years ago because my bf before him told me to get a boob job and I wouldn’t. Our relationship inevitably ended.
> He moved countries without hesitation because I wanted to, left behind his childhood friends and family. Our oldest son is adopted (within family adoption) and he didn’t hesitate to agree as it was us or foster care for him and he took him in like he was biologically his and never looked back. This is our special needs child so there are some wonderful qualities about him as not every man could/would do that especially as we were just starting our marriage together. It’s been stressful for sure! Our life has not been easy. Not everyone’s is, but we’ve also had extra challenges because of this.
> The last few years - as he’s approached 40- he has changed slightly in the fact I feel he is unhappy with our sex life or me and is always trying to spice things up. However lately I’m left feeling more like I’m not good enough for him anymore than I did at the start of our relationship. Not sure if this is a mid life crisis or what but it’s still not cool to me and needs addressing.


Look I totally get what you are saying. I mean special needs kids a more than many can take. So I get this is hard.
I will say I still wouldn't live like this as is. I most likely would bid my time but build up a support system and look at ways to increase income or find care that you can afford. Then I'd leave.

However, I believe we all make our choices so if you are going to stay. At a minimum I would let him know it's me or the porn. I feel porn increases / exacerbates men's unhappiness. That being said you and he need to have sex if you cut of that sexual outlet. Is he at least a good lover? Do you orgasm frequently? Of course he'll probably just lie to you about it anyway. He does seem to be lacking in character when it comes to sexual boundaries.

Next I would make counseling a requirement.

Third. I don't care what anyone says touching another women's breast is cheating. They don't get to make those decisions for you. A marriage contract is written between the two people involved. You and him. No one else gets a vote. Are the majority of people who think it's no big deal men, his friends or family? Not that it matters. Only you matter and if he can't see that again. I'd be out of there. It might take time but I'd be gone.

Yes I would call his mom. She deserves not to walk into this mess. 

Lastly. NO MATTER what don't compromise yourself for a threesome. If you want a threesome have at it. But don't let him bully you or sulk you into one.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> No hissy fit. I just am having a hard time sleeping next to him after this. I feel it’s a combo of all the above. The strippers and then talking to his friend about my boobs and them basically not developing properly so I want to get a boob job. This all just happened yesterday so I’m trying to figure stuff out - what’s salvageable and is it worth it? Would therapy help? I feel like he has a lot of work to do to make this up to me but not sure what or if it will work. I work full time and am the primary caregiver for my 3 kids.
> He was a great guy at the start of our relationship. Everything was about me in terms of him always being there for me and what made me comfortable etc. super supportive at the start and never once mentioned my boobs being too small. It is something I opened up to him about a few years ago because my bf before him told me to get a boob job and I wouldn’t. Our relationship inevitably ended.
> He moved countries without hesitation because I wanted to, left behind his childhood friends and family. Our oldest son is adopted (within family adoption) and he didn’t hesitate to agree as it was us or foster care for him and he took him in like he was biologically his and never looked back. This is our special needs child so there are some wonderful qualities about him as not every man could/would do that especially as we were just starting our marriage together. It’s been stressful for sure! Our life has not been easy. Not everyone’s is, but we’ve also had extra challenges because of this.
> The last few years - as he’s approached 40- he has changed slightly in the fact I feel he is unhappy with our sex life or me and is always trying to spice things up. However lately I’m left feeling more like I’m not good enough for him anymore than I did at the start of our relationship. Not sure if this is a mid life crisis or what but it’s still not cool to me and needs addressing.


I tend to be pro-marriage so I won't be in the crowd chanting 'leave him' right away.
You know your boundaries and your children are to be treated with care for sure. You'll know when the time is now.

You say your marriage was great until something changed.
Maybe it is MLC, maybe he's having an EA with an online hooker, or a local streetwalker, maybe maybe maybe who knows.

In my unprofessional opinion, he needs a real strong wake up call from you that his family is in jeopardy. I'm not sure he's getting it.
Even stronger than the basement, I assume he will be back to his old ways in no time.

The strongest of strong wake up calls is divorce papers. That's a slap no one can ignore (and it can be stopped if he cleans up)
You have to wake him up from this 13 year-old fantasy world that he's living in.

Have you thought about exposure? Tell all far and wide to EVERYONE. Shine a bright freakin light on his dirty little secrets. The truth shall set you free and all that.
That would wake me up.
Then he MUST get into counseling for him to fix what he has broken.


----------



## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I tend to be pro-marriage so I won't be in the crowd chanting 'leave him' right away.
> You know your boundaries and your children are to be treated with care for sure. You'll know when the time is now.
> 
> You say your marriage was great until something changed.
> Maybe it is MLC, maybe he's having an EA with an online hooker, or a local streetwalker, maybe maybe maybe who knows.
> 
> In my unprofessional opinion, he needs a real strong wake up call from you that his family is in jeopardy. I'm not sure he's getting it.
> Even stronger than the basement, I assume he will be back to his old ways in no time.
> 
> The strongest of strong wake up calls is divorce papers. That's a slap no one can ignore (and it can be stopped if he cleans up)
> You have to wake him up from this 13 year-old fantasy world that he's living in.
> 
> Have you thought about exposure? Tell all far and wide to EVERYONE. Shine a bright freakin light on his dirty little secrets. The truth shall set you free and all that.
> That would wake me up.
> Then he MUST get into counseling for him to fix what he has broken.


I agree. Thank you for your input.


----------



## Mr.Married

Give him a taste of his own medicine and casually mention he is a bit thin and short in the manhood department compared to your others.


----------



## CrAzYdOgLaDy

If my husband said he wasn't happy because my boobs are too small, and told friends, and then touching and grabbing women with big boobs, he would now be an ex husband. Tell him his penis is too small and ugly. Tell him to get surgery to enlarge his penis because he doesn't satisfy you, and Tell his friends and your friends too. Let everyone know your husbands penis is the smallest you've seen and he is bad in bed. See how he feels.


----------



## rugswept

I felt so bad for you reading your story that I had to stop reading it. 
He's so disrespectful and is now planning boob parties in the hot tub. 
Yikes. 

When the hell did you sign up for that? 
Instead of you going to the chop shop so he can have his hot tub party, he should have the implant: his brain should be removed and replaced with a big fake silicone boob. 
Maybe you should suggest that for him. 
Sickening.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> No hissy fit. I just am having a hard time sleeping next to him after this. I feel it’s a combo of all the above. The strippers and then talking to his friend about my boobs and them basically not developing properly so I want to get a boob job. This all just happened yesterday so I’m trying to figure stuff out - what’s salvageable and is it worth it? Would therapy help? I feel like he has a lot of work to do to make this up to me but not sure what or if it will work. I work full time and am the primary caregiver for my 3 kids.
> He was a great guy at the start of our relationship. Everything was about me in terms of him always being there for me and what made me comfortable etc. super supportive at the start and never once mentioned my boobs being too small. It is something I opened up to him about a few years ago because my bf before him told me to get a boob job and I wouldn’t. Our relationship inevitably ended.
> He moved countries without hesitation because I wanted to, left behind his childhood friends and family. Our oldest son is adopted (within family adoption) and he didn’t hesitate to agree as it was us or foster care for him and he took him in like he was biologically his and never looked back. This is our special needs child so there are some wonderful qualities about him as not every man could/would do that especially as we were just starting our marriage together. It’s been stressful for sure! Our life has not been easy. Not everyone’s is, but we’ve also had extra challenges because of this.
> The last few years - as he’s approached 40- he has changed slightly in the fact I feel he is unhappy with our sex life or me and is always trying to spice things up. However lately I’m left feeling more like I’m not good enough for him anymore than I did at the start of our relationship. Not sure if this is a mid life crisis or what but it’s still not cool to me and needs addressing.


Why you're starting to feel like you're not good enough for him is because this is what abuse does to a person. It lowers their self-esteem. If they can get you to feel like you're not good enough, then they have more control over you. 

I'm glad he's in the basement. 

I worry about if you start having teenage daughter's friends around since he's crossed so many boundaries here. He's getting off in left field. They start seeing all the crazy stuff on porn or in strip clubs and get focused on it and then start trying to bring it into real life.

You really should go ahead and let some people know about this because it all may blow up as he realizes he's not going to get his way. There's a saying that you don't ever really know someone until you see them when they're not getting their way. I'm sorry to hear that you don't have a support system of relatives. But I'm real glad you're working. If you two did split, he could share custody half and half and that will leave you some free time you've probably never had. 

Stay strong. I wish I could tell you that I thought marital counseling would help but I'm not sure it helps when the issue is sex and the man has become so focused on it that it becomes such a priority and it's not like this is brand new. 

What he really needs is a kick in the pants, and I was hoping you would have a big brother or a dad or someone who could have a word with him about disrespecting you like this. He can't say a word about it whoever you share it with because he's already crossed that boundary with someone who's not even close to you.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Well, this was absolutely awful to read. 

Soooo.... does your husband have actual good qualities? 

He has no business touching other women. Period. He has no business spending marital assets on other women. Period. 

Next, why is he so quick to talk to his friends about private matters? Especially about personal things you are not comfortable with? Have you asked him why he married you if chest size was a problem? Was it always his plan to "fix" you even before you got married?

The level of disrespect here... naw. Hell naw.


----------



## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why you're starting to feel like you're not good enough for him is because this is what abuse does to a person. It lowers their self-esteem. If they can get you to feel like you're not good enough, then they have more control over you.
> 
> I'm glad he's in the basement.
> 
> I worry about if you start having teenage daughter's friends around since he's crossed so many boundaries here. He's getting off in left field. They start seeing all the crazy stuff on porn or in strip clubs and get focused on it and then start trying to bring it into real life.
> 
> You really should go ahead and let some people know about this because it all may blow up as he realizes he's not going to get his way. There's a saying that you don't ever really know someone until you see them when they're not getting their way. I'm sorry to hear that you don't have a support system of relatives. But I'm real glad you're working. If you two did split, he could share custody half and half and that will leave you some free time you've probably never had.
> 
> Stay strong. I wish I could tell you that I thought marital counseling would help but I'm not sure it helps when the issue is sex and the man has become so focused on it that it becomes such a priority and it's not like this is brand new.
> 
> What he really needs is a kick in the pants, and I was hoping you would have a big brother or a dad or someone who could have a word with him about disrespecting you like this. He can't say a word about it whoever you share it with because he's already crossed that boundary with someone who's not even close to you.


Nope no dad or brothers in the mix unfortunately. I did share with his parents. My daughter is only 3 so we’re a ways away from teenage years still.


LATERILUS79 said:


> Well, this was absolutely awful to read.
> 
> Soooo.... does your husband have actual good qualities?
> 
> He has no business touching other women. Period. He has no business spending marital assets on other women. Period.
> 
> Next, why is he so quick to talk to his friends about private matters? Especially about personal things you are not comfortable with? Have you asked him why he married you if chest size was a problem? Was it always his plan to "fix" you even before you got married?
> 
> The level of disrespect here... naw. Hell naw.


I agree about the touching other women. He doesn’t see that as a problem though. I considered it cheating. You take away the money (which masks it as “entertainment”) and it would 100% be cheating.
He says he loves my boobs, he was just doing it for me to make me happy. Even tho I’ve NEVER said I wanted a boob job. Do I wish sometimes I had a bigger rack and more cleavage? Hell yeah! But I wouldn’t go as far as to have surgery for that.
He thinks he was doing it to make me happy. Doesn’t add up in my brain. I wanted to dye my hair to cover a few stray gray hairs and he hid the box on me. Yet I mention it made me feel bad when he got the lap dances and he’s researching and talking to his friend about boob implants. Also upset me that he told his friend I didn’t develop normally. That’s his opinion. He wants to fix this and I do believe he loves me. He’s just an ass sometimes and doesn’t think. He’s also stubborn and doesn’t see how to actually work on our relationship. He comes from a long line of p who sweep issues under the rug. That’s qhT he tries to do everytime we have an issue but I won’t do it anymore.


----------



## In Absentia

Yogi_bear said:


> However, this issue feels like a huge violation to the trust in our relationship and im embarrassed by what he said to his friend about my boobs.


Obviously, you two have completely different moral stands and it's a shame you are finding out now. I can see how a dissatisfying sex life can tip the balance, but it's no excuse. No excuse to touch strippers' boobs, ask you for an operation and talk about it with his friends. Also, in my opinion, when the trust is broken it is very difficult to repair the relationship. I would ask for marital counselling as a condition to move the marriage forward.


----------



## Diana7

I honestly don't think counseling will make any difference to the fact that his moral values are low or that he thinks it's ok to cheat with multiple women. 

That alone would mean the end of the marriage for many. The fact is that he is still there and hasn't faced any consequences. He is totally unrepentant and sees nothing wrong with cheating. I can't see what choices you have except end the marriage or stay and accept his terrible behaviour.


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> I honestly don't think counseling will make any difference to the fact that his moral values are low or that he thinks it's ok to cheat with multiple women.
> 
> That alone would mean the end of the marriage for many. The fact is that he is still there and hasn't faced any consequences. He is totally unrepentant and sees nothing wrong with cheating. I can't see what choices you have except end the marriage or stay and accept his terrible behaviour.


I believe in giving people a chance. His "crimes" are bad but the situation can be repaired, especially with 3 small children and one with special needs. I guess it's up to the OP.


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> I believe in giving people a chance. His "crimes" are bad but the situation can be repaired, especially with 3 small children and one with special needs. I guess it's up to the OP.


Unless


In Absentia said:


> I believe in giving people a chance. His "crimes" are bad but the situation can be repaired, especially with 3 small children and one with special needs. I guess it's up to the OP.


I would agree if he was repentant and understood that his behaviour was way out of order. Sadly he isn't repentant and can see nothing wrong with sexual contact with many women.


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Unless
> I would agree if he was repentant and understood that his behaviour was way out of order. Sadly he isn't repentant and can see nothing wrong with sexual contact with many women.


That's why they need counselling...


----------



## bobert

Yogi_bear said:


> I feel it’s a combo of all the above. The strippers and then talking to his friend about my boobs and them basically not developing properly so I want to get a boob job. This all just happened yesterday so I’m trying to figure stuff out - what’s salvageable and is it worth it? Would therapy help?


In my experience (of making probably worse small boob comments), once those things are said they can never be unheard or taken back. You will probably be forever uncomfortable around him and have those comments pop up whenever he touches you, looks at you, etc., _if_ you even let him. Therapy won't help with the comments unless there was a huge communication error, which seems unlikely but we're only getting one side of the story. Therapy could help him with certain things, like boundaries and communication, but it most likely won't change his preferences unless they were rooted in some sort of trauma or something. It could help him learn to maybe accept certain things or be happy with what he does and doesn't have, but that's about it.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

bobert said:


> In my experience (of making probably worse small boob comments), once those things are said they can never be unheard or taken back. You will probably be forever uncomfortable around him and have those comments pop up whenever he touches you, looks at you, etc., _if_ you even let him. Therapy won't help with the comments unless there was a huge communication error, which seems unlikely but we're only getting one side of the story. Therapy could help him with certain things, like boundaries and communication, but it most likely won't change his preferences unless they were rooted in some sort of trauma or something. It could help him learn to maybe accept certain things or be happy with what he does and doesn't have, but that's about it.


You might be right, now that the truth is out this will forever be a stumbling block in their marriage.

I just can’t reconcile current behavior with previous behavior. OP says everything was great before recently. And he married those small boobs, but he didn’t like them? And waited 12 years to mention it? It just doesn’t quite add up for me.

I don’t know but I get the feeling this is reversible once his “stupidity fog” lifts. I’m leaning towards MLC and OP needs to shock him out of it.


----------



## Always Learning

So let me see if i have this straight

He went to a strip club and fondled other women's breasts while getting lap dances.
Says he is ok with you doing same. The equivalent would be going to see male strippers and jerking them off.
Tells another guy you developed abnormally and *YOU *want implants.
Discusses a topless hot tub party with same guy and his wife.
Starts bringing up possibilities of threesomes.

Do you see a pattern here. Well the first pattern is a total lack of respect for you and your marriage. I do not know any person male or female that would think it OK for him to get a lap dance or to touch another women's breasts. Going to the strip club is even borderline.

I'll never understand the desire for implants, (that's just me) I'll take natural A cups over implants of any size. The size is not as important as who they belong to. Your husband is pushing the boundaries of your marriage further and further until he ruins it. he is displaying a pattern of behavior that is destructive to your marriage. You need to put and end to this stuff and slam these doors shut in his face.

How would he feel if someday your daughter comes to him for relationship advice because she is in the same situation. I'll bet he would be quite upset with the man that showed his daughter that her value was in her chest size. I just don't get why people pull this stuff.

I wish you well as you sound like a good partner that most men would love.


----------



## bobert

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You might be right, now that the truth is out this will forever be a stumbling block in their marriage.
> 
> I just can’t reconcile current behavior with previous behavior. OP says everything was great before recently. And he married those small boobs, but he didn’t like them? And waited 12 years to mention it? It just doesn’t quite add up for me.
> 
> I don’t know but I get the feeling this is reversible once his “stupidity fog” lifts. I’m leaning towards MLC and OP needs to shock him out of it.


I have been with my wife for 19 years (married a bit less) and I didn't make comments or even really think about it until I did. It wasn't an issue, until it was I guess. In my situation, a lot of the comments were said to hurt her so that's different, but what got me really thinking about it was my cheating. Which seems to be the same for this guy. The strippers body probably didnt put the idea in his head, but probably did bring the thoughts to the forefront. Or maybe he'd claim that he didn't know what he was missing until he had it, who knows.


----------



## In Absentia

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You might be right, now that the truth is out this will forever be a stumbling block in their marriage.
> 
> I just can’t reconcile current behavior with previous behavior. OP says everything was great before recently. And he married those small boobs, but he didn’t like them? And waited 12 years to mention it? It just doesn’t quite add up for me.
> 
> I don’t know but I get the feeling this is reversible once his “stupidity fog” lifts. I’m leaning towards MLC and OP needs to shock him out of it.


Totally agree.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

bobert said:


> I have been with my wife for 19 years (married a bit less) and I didn't make comments or even really think about it until I did. It wasn't an issue, until it was I guess. In my situation, a lot of the comments were said to hurt her so that's different, but what got me really thinking about it was my cheating. Which seems to be the same for this guy. The strippers body probably didnt put the idea in his head, but probably did bring the thoughts to the forefront. Or maybe he'd claim that he didn't know what he was missing until he had it, who knows.


In your case, was the change in your heart permanent? Would you still make those comments today?

Or did you go through an ‘oh crap what have I done’ period and pull everything back?
Sorry, I’m not familiar with your backstory. 
And this might be relevant for this OP.


----------



## In Absentia

I did say horrible things to my wife when I was angry (sex life problems) and she never forgave me.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

*


Yogi_bear said:



So I was explaining to my husband how it made me feel crappy to know he was touching (yes he confirmed he was touching and fondling) other women's big breasts - something I lack and I felt this was disrespectful and crossed a line in our marriage.

Click to expand...

*I don't think I've ever heard of a strip bar that LEGALLY allows the patrons to touch the stripper's breasts, even in those private rooms (unless they're paying A LOT more for the privacy). But I'm sure the "hundreds" he spent that night likely *weren't *for 'lap dances,' but for the 'extras' one can purchase from the dancer of their choice in the back room. OP, you need to stop being so naive.

*



Later I saw on his phone this conversation, as it was open. I read that he told his friend that I want breast implants because my boobs "never grew to their full natural size” because I played sports and my coaches "trained me too hard". His friend was encouraging of me getting them. Then he went on to talk about how we will have hot tub parties with our wives with big boobs once it’s done.

Click to expand...

*You truly married a disrespectful idiot. But you know that, don't you?

*



This is a guy who my husband was worried to tell that other companies were trying to poach him, because he was worried that he would tell others in his company before he made his decision on what to do. Yet, he has no problems sharing this very personal issue with him without even discussing it with me first.

Click to expand...

*Of *course* he has no problem with telling others your private business and lying about you - and your "underdeveloped" breasts - to your friends. That's because he doesn't RESPECT you. That is painfully, PAINFULLY obvious. That's why I have no doubt a hell of a lot MORE went on behind the scenes at the lap dance bar that night than what he's admitted to you. He's an arrogant, self-entitled douche bag with ZERO respect for you as a wife, a woman, and a human being, so why you would _expect_ this assclown to have a shred of decency or morals where your marriage is concerned when he's out at a nudie bar where he can pay for whatever he wants?

*



I can't deny my feelings about it but his first reaction when I talked to him about the texts between his friend about me was to get angry at me.

Click to expand...

*At the risk of repeating myself, I'll say it again. That's because he doesn't RESPECT you. That is painfully, PAINFULLY obvious. He's ALL about trying to make you feel lesser-than, and body-shaming you into getting implants because he obviously prefers big breasts.

Good luck with this assclown. Read my signature line - I hope one day you FINALLY realize your worth.


----------



## Talker67

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I don't think I've ever heard of a strip bar that LEGALLY allows the patrons to touch the stripper's breasts, even in those private rooms (unless they're paying A LOT more for the privacy).


it varies from state to state in the USA, AND varies greatly overseas.

in New England, you ain't touchin nuttin


----------



## bobert

BeyondRepair007 said:


> In your case, was the change in your heart permanent? Would you still make those comments today?
> 
> Or did you go through an ‘oh crap what have I done’ period and pull everything back?
> Sorry, I’m not familiar with your backstory.
> And this might be relevant for this OP.


Would I still make those comments? Only if I'm in the mood to be a **** and hurt her, which is different than the OP's situation. It is a stupid and destructive thing to do, regardless of the intentions. Maybe he will realize that eventually. 

My preferences have always been my preferences, so I wouldn't say that changes. Probably 98% of the time it wasn't and isn't a problem for me or thought on my mind. When it is on my mind, it's because memories that I shouldn't have are as well. So whenever her husband makes a comment about her chest size, it's possible he's thinking about the other boobs he's been "entertained" with (strippers, porn, whatever).

Or maybe he just wants a more sexually confident wife, thought he found a quick way to fix it, and jumped on it. He's an idiot either way.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

I have to admit...if my wife said "your shlong is small and I'd like it to be bigger" that would NEVER leave my head.

ug.
what a jerk


----------



## Talker67

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I have to admit...if my wife said "your shlong is small and I'd like it to be bigger" that would NEVER leave my head.
> 
> ug.
> what a jerk


expecially when there are so many things he COULD suggest that are easily within her control. having major medical surgery is not easy, nor risk free.


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> That's why they need counselling...


I can see the point of MC so it can be established if his values and hers are in anyway workable. I don't see any point in counseling for him alone.


----------



## Yogi_bear

bobert said:


> I have been with my wife for 19 years (married a bit less) and I didn't make comments or even really think about it until I did. It wasn't an issue, until it was I guess. In my situation, a lot of the comments were said to hurt her so that's different, but what got me really thinking about it was my cheating. Which seems to be the same for this guy. The strippers body probably didnt put the idea in his head, but probably did bring the thoughts to the forefront. Or maybe he'd claim that he didn't know what he was missing until he had it, who knows.


The part I struggle with is he says he loves my boobs the way they are. However his actions kinda say the opposite. Like I mentioned before, boob size wasn’t an issue (not an insecurity or topic I. Our relationship) until he went to the strip club which was well into our marriage. I do believe he loves me, but gets carried away with the idea of improving me. I don’t think he realizes how those comments make me feel. For example he’s trying to get a 6 pack for me. I tell him I could care less if he had one or not, I care more about him being healthy so we can have a long happy marriage together and so he is around for his kids (he has type 1 diabetes so we have been through lots of health scares with him In the past). He focuses too much on the physical right now. He didn’t seem to be like that before.


----------



## ConanHub

Yogi_bear said:


> Hi All, I am new here and looking for some thoughts on best way to handle this situation.
> 
> A few years ago now (pre pandemic) my husband went to a strip club on a work trip in Vegas. It was a lap dance bar and I found out he had multiple lap dances there. Wasn’t super happy about it. Today we were talking about it, as ever since then I’ve struggled with body image issues with my breasts - I’m a cup size A after having and Brest feeding 3 babies. I was always smaller (b cup) but even smaller since babies. The reason the topic came up so many years later was because he is always pestering me for nude pictures. I have sent him some and tried to keep things spicy in our relationship, but he keeps asking for more and honestly I feel it's harder for me to do sexy photos on my own due to my lack of cleavage and the like, so I was telling him that.
> 
> So I was explaining to my husband how it made me feel crappy to know he was touching (yes he confirmed he was touching and fondling) other women's big breasts - something I lack and I felt this was disrespectful and crossed a line in our marriage. I never had issues with my breasts in our relationship until I found out he went to the lap dance bar and spent hundreds on lap dances. He also lied to me about it initially and slowly things came out. So this triggered my past insecurities (years of dealing with mens comments and opinions - my boyfriend before I met my husband argued that he wanted me to get implants and it really ruined our relationship - among other things!
> 
> Move forward a few hours and he brings up me getting breast implants. He started researching and finding pictures of them to show me, without me asking. Also knowing I’m deathly afraid of any surgery and also have mixed feelings about them as I’ve known ppl who got implant illness and ultimately had to remove the implants to regain better quality of life. Anyway, my husband has a friend he works with whose wife had breast augmentation surgery last year. He told me he messaged him and he said they were “only 13k”. I didn’t say much to it as I didn't even say I wanted them. Later I saw on his phone this conversation, as it was open. I read that he told his friend that I want breast implants because my boobs "never grew to their full natural size” because I played sports and my coaches "trained me too hard". His friend was encouraging of me getting them. Then he went on to talk about how we will have hot tub parties with our wives with big boobs once it’s done. This really upset me for many reasons- first, I’m pretty sure my boobs DID grow to their natural size, it’s just smaller than most. I am a smaller person as well. Second, it upset me that when I bring up how it affected me he was touching these other girls breasts, the first thing he goes to is making mine the same as theirs. Thirdly, I didn't ask him to tell his friend ANY of that, it was a private conversation between us and a personal issue that I deal with. I don't even talk to my closest friends about it (often, I have brought it up occasionally when dealing with assholes, or after having kids etc). Also, telling his friend that I WANT them because I didn't grow to my natural size. Like WTF? I have so many thoughts and feelings about this comment. I had told him how some guys made you feel like you had a deformity unless you were a certain size. Well, this comment almost was along the same lines to me - something that didn't form properly. Also, I have no intention of getting a boob job, for many reasons, and now he has told his friend that I am so I feel that will make things a bit awkward between us when we all hang out - he will no doubt tell his wife, and who knows who else as this friend has a big mouth (loves to talk about others). I also feel a little betrayed that my husband would turn to a friend to share my most personal insecurity with. This is a guy who my husband was worried to tell that other companies were trying to poach him, because he was worried that he would tell others in his company before he made his decision on what to do. Yet, he has no problems sharing this very personal issue with him without even discussing it with me first.
> 
> I have so many feelings about this and would like others input about the situation. I don't want to talk about it to our friends as I try to keep our "dirty laundry" between us. So thought an anonymous board might be the way to go.
> 
> I can't deny my feelings about it but his first reaction when I talked to him about the texts between his friend about me was to get angry at me. He says I'm ridiculous and anytime he tries to "help me" with this issue (my small boobs) it causes problems. I didn't think I wanted help with it, just to talk about how it made me feel. Am I being ridiculous?


You've already gotten some good input and I honestly had a hard time getting through this post because my anger level was making it hard to think. (I'm an angry barbarian. LoL!)

I think you are an amazing woman who has given your husband three children and you have a good head on your shoulders about unnecessary surgery and societal pressure.

Your husband has done so many bad things to you that I don't know where to start and you seem so incredibly patient with him.

I would have gone nuclear and probably started to network about his small penis and see if any of the network of friends knew how to make it bigger through surgery or other means and take a girls trip to a male review and maybe even sent your dear husband a selfie of your pretty little face next to a thong that was stretched to the breaking point.

I'm very much in favor of turnabout if you can't tell.😈

Do you feel he is endangering your marriage by messing with strippers and undermining your trust with his friend and pushing you into unnecessary surgery?

Maybe he needs to understand that he is damaging his marriage and needs to invest in counseling, both individual for himself and maybe marital with you?

Has your marriage been good until he started losing his damn mind?

P.S. I married a little woman and loved everything about her. She eventually wore me down to get augmentation but I wish she felt like you.

I eventually got use to the differences after her augmentation but it was very hard on me.

I really do hope you do not put up with his very poor treatment of you and I hope you insist on definitive corrective measures.


----------



## Always Learning

Yogi_bear said:


> The part I struggle with is he says he loves my boobs the way they are. However his actions kinda say the opposite. Like I mentioned before, boob size wasn’t an issue (not an insecurity or topic I. Our relationship) until he went to the syrup club which was well into our marriage. I do believe he loves me, but gets carried away with the idea of improving me. I don’t think he realizes how those comments make me feel. For example he’s trying to get a 6 pack for me. I tell him I could care less if he had one or not, I care more about him being healthy so we can have a long happy marriage together and so he is around for his kids (he has type 1 diabetes so we have been through lots of health scares with him In the past). He focuses too much on the physical right now. He didn’t seem to be like that before.


As far as insecurities go I once heard a great statement, don't remember from who. "no one can make you feel inferior without your permission" never ever forget that.

He doesn't want a six pack for you he wants so you will worship him! follow his actions not his words.


----------



## Openminded

It might sound good for him to say he’s doing that for you (so maybe you should do something for him) but be careful believing everything he says.


----------



## ConanHub

Yogi_bear said:


> ABSOLUTELY! This is one of my main fears of surgery in general! I’m supposed to get surgery on my thyroid and I keep pushing it (with doctors approval) because of this unknown- we don’t know what will happen. I take surgery very seriously. My mum had spinal surgery and almost didn’t wake up.
> Getting the surgery is not a possibility. I just am hurt he shared all this with a guy who is a friend but not super close to. I feel he also insulted me with his comments. I just feel there’s so much to unpack here. He claims he wanted the surgery for me however I got hair dye a few months ago because I have a few strands coming in and I wanted to dye my hair to make me feel better- low risk, cheap not invasive! He hid the box of dye and I can’t find it. He said I don’t need it and don’t need to change. However, talking about this and he’s researching and messaging a friend about major surgery that costs 13k and I never said I wanted it? Possibly because it would benefit him more? I struggle with this all.


He stole your hair dye and hid it while telling you he knows best for you?

How have you put up with this control freak for so long?

How is he with your kids?

I'm really worried about you and your children, because his behavior will negatively impact their development as well as being a huge pain in your derriere.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> For example he’s trying to get a 6 pack for me.


Given his other behaviors, I wonder if this is true.

He's getting a 6 pack to be more attractive to the opposite sex for sure. Is that you? Or the stripper. Or the best friend's wife. Or....

Question everything. He's not a good guy right now. Maybe never will be again, it's too early to tell.


----------



## ConanHub

Yogi_bear said:


> Sorry I should have clarified, the part that bothered me is WHAT he told his friend- the part that I didn’t develop properly and now want implants. Complete bull crap! And it seemed like he was committing to it for me so now how does one explain it when I don’t have them?
> He does watch porn. He’s also been really into the idea of threesomes lately. I am not. I did all that when I was younger and now im married and content (or was). He blames it on never having those experiences when he was younger. I don’t really care.


I was wondering about porn use and he is following a pattern with wanting to bring others into your bedroom.

I think you should get a consultation with a lawyer and see where you would be in a divorce.

Do not discuss the consultation with your husband, he is not being your husband. He is not trustworthy and he does not have your best interests anymore.


----------



## Yogi_bear

ConanHub said:


> You've already gotten some good input and I honestly had a hard time getting through this post because my anger level was making it hard to think. (I'm an angry barbarian. LoL!)
> 
> I think you are an amazing woman who has given your husband three children and you have a good head on your shoulders about unnecessary surgery and societal pressure.
> 
> Your husband has done so many bad things to you that I don't know where to start and you seem so incredibly patient with him.
> 
> I would have gone nuclear and probably started to network about his small penis and see if any of the network of friends knew how to make it bigger through surgery or other means and take a girls trip to a male review and maybe even sent your dear husband a selfie of your pretty little face next to a thong that was stretched to the breaking point.
> 
> I'm very much in favor of turnabout if you can't tell.😈
> 
> Do you feel he is endangering your marriage by messing with strippers and undermining your trust with his friend and pushing you into unnecessary surgery?
> 
> Maybe he needs to understand that he is damaging his marriage and needs to invest in counseling, both individual for himself and maybe marital with you?
> 
> Has your marriage been good until he started losing his damn mind?
> 
> P.S. I married a little woman and loved everything about her. She eventually wore me down to get augmentation but I wish she felt like you.
> 
> I eventually got use to the differences after her augmentation but it was very hard on me.
> 
> I really do hope you do not put up with his very poor treatment of you and I hope you insist on definitive corrective measures.


Absolutely! I said we needed counselling after the strip club incident but he refused. He knows now the only way to save our marriage after this is counselling. I came home from work last night and he was on the couch reading my “5 love languages” book. 🙄 I told him he needs more than a self help book to get him out of this one! I do believe he is a good guy under it all. He has been poorly influenced as his friends, his trade in general objectifies women (carpenter) and his parents are constantly pushing important issues under the rug and not dealing with them (always smiling, life’s good- it’s all good!). I told his parents about the strip club and his comment to his friend about my underdeveloped breast and his push for implants - to make ME feel better of course 🙄. I haven’t heard a word back and I know they’ve read it. They live in Australia. Anyway, I doubt I will and I even wrote that “I know you will prob disagree with me and my decisions because he’s your son and you guys seem to often ignore major issues in favour of just getting along, but enough is enough and I have children to think about. I don’t want my sons learning this is ok to read women this way. My daughter needs to positive body image role models.” Still. Crickets!
Interesting your wife got implants and you didn’t like it. My experience has only been with men who were indifferent to it or my ex before my husband was gonna pay for me to get them. I ended that relationship. It was way too toxic with very little good…and we didn’t have 3 kids together which always complicates things. My husband was very good to me before all this and there’s still times he is. It’s like he’s 2 ppl or dissatisfied in some way. I’ve tried hard to keep our sex life spicy but I also won’t compromise my own comfort level for that. So if that’s what he’s looking for I told him he needs to find someone else, it ain’t me!


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Always Learning said:


> As far as insecurities go I once heard a great statement, don't remember from who. "no one can make you feel inferior without your permission" never ever forget that.
> 
> He doesn't want a six pack for you he wants so you will worship him! follow his actions not his words.


He may only be wanting a six pack so that other women want him.


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> I can see the point of MC so it can be established if his values and hers are in anyway workable. I don't see any point in counseling for him alone.


yes, I was talking about MC.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> Absolutely! I said we needed counselling after the strip club incident but he refused. He knows now the only way to save our marriage after this is counselling. I came home from work last night and he was on the couch reading my “5 love languages” book. 🙄 I told him he needs more than a self help book to get him out of this one! I do believe he is a good guy under it all. He has been poorly influenced as his friends, his trade in general objectifies women (carpenter) and his parents are constantly pushing important issues under the rug and not dealing with them (always smiling, life’s good- it’s all good!). I told his parents about the strip club and his comment to his friend about my underdeveloped breast and his push for implants - to make ME feel better of course 🙄. I haven’t heard a word back and I know they’ve read it. They live in Australia. Anyway, I doubt I will and I even wrote that “I know you will prob disagree with me and my decisions because he’s your son and you guys seem to often ignore major issues in favour of just getting along, but enough is enough and I have children to think about. I don’t want my sons learning this is ok to read women this way. My daughter needs to positive body image role models.” Still. Crickets!
> Interesting your wife got implants and you didn’t like it. My experience has only been with men who were indifferent to it or my ex before my husband was gonna pay for me to get them. I ended that relationship. It was way too toxic with very little good…and we didn’t have 3 kids together which always complicates things. My husband was very good to me before all this and there’s still times he is. It’s like he’s 2 ppl or dissatisfied in some way. I’ve tried hard to keep our sex life spicy but I also won’t compromise my own comfort level for that. So if that’s what he’s looking for I told him he needs to find someone else, it ain’t me!


They might not ever respond to you but maybe they will say something to him although it may not be the right thing.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> Interesting your wife got implants and you didn’t like it. My experience has only been with men who were indifferent to it or my ex before my husband was gonna pay for me to get them. I ended that relationship


Put me in agreement with Conan.
If my wife wanted them I would freak out on her. NO
Having said that, I'm sure I would relent if she kept at it but I would NOT be in favor.

Good for you about the email. His parents sound like real gems. But parents will always support their children so don't expect too much there.
Now send it to your whole contact list. All his friends, your whole family, etc.


----------



## jlg07

Yogi_bear said:


> No hissy fit. I just am having a hard time sleeping next to him after this. I feel it’s a combo of all the above. The strippers and then talking to his friend about my boobs and them basically not developing properly so I want to get a boob job. This all just happened yesterday so I’m trying to figure stuff out - what’s salvageable and is it worth it? Would therapy help? I feel like he has a lot of work to do to make this up to me but not sure what or if it will work. I work full time and am the primary caregiver for my 3 kids.
> He was a great guy at the start of our relationship. Everything was about me in terms of him always being there for me and what made me comfortable etc. super supportive at the start and never once mentioned my boobs being too small. It is something I opened up to him about a few years ago because my bf before him told me to get a boob job and I wouldn’t. Our relationship inevitably ended.
> He moved countries without hesitation because I wanted to, left behind his childhood friends and family. Our oldest son is adopted (within family adoption) and he didn’t hesitate to agree as it was us or foster care for him and he took him in like he was biologically his and never looked back. This is our special needs child so there are some wonderful qualities about him as not every man could/would do that especially as we were just starting our marriage together. It’s been stressful for sure! Our life has not been easy. Not everyone’s is, but we’ve also had extra challenges because of this.
> The last few years - as he’s approached 40- he has changed slightly in the fact I feel he is unhappy with our sex life or me and is always trying to spice things up. However lately I’m left feeling more like I’m not good enough for him anymore than I did at the start of our relationship. Not sure if this is a mid life crisis or what but it’s still not cool to me and needs addressing.


First of all, your boobs are the size they are supposed to be, not "stunted". Second there are MANY things you can do to spice up the br that don't involve a third party. He needs to understand how hurtful him talking to his friend about YOUR personal private issues are, and he needs to stop that asap. If you don't want a boob job, that should be end of the story. 

Btw, there are tons of great looking women who don't have d cup boobs. He needs to enjoy what he has, and not do fantasy


----------



## In Absentia

Yogi_bear said:


> Absolutely! I said we needed counselling after the strip club incident but he refused. He knows now the only way to save our marriage after this is counselling. I came home from work last night and he was on the couch reading my “5 love languages” book. 🙄 I told him he needs more than a self help book to get him out of this one! I do believe he is a good guy under it all. He has been poorly influenced as his friends, his trade in general objectifies women (carpenter) and his parents are constantly pushing important issues under the rug and not dealing with them (always smiling, life’s good- it’s all good!). I told his parents about the strip club and his comment to his friend about my underdeveloped breast and his push for implants - to make ME feel better of course 🙄. I haven’t heard a word back and I know they’ve read it. They live in Australia. Anyway, I doubt I will and I even wrote that “I know you will prob disagree with me and my decisions because he’s your son and you guys seem to often ignore major issues in favour of just getting along, but enough is enough and I have children to think about. I don’t want my sons learning this is ok to read women this way. My daughter needs to positive body image role models.” Still. Crickets!
> Interesting your wife got implants and you didn’t like it. My experience has only been with men who were indifferent to it or my ex before my husband was gonna pay for me to get them. I ended that relationship. It was way too toxic with very little good…and we didn’t have 3 kids together which always complicates things. My husband was very good to me before all this and there’s still times he is. It’s like he’s 2 ppl or dissatisfied in some way. I’ve tried hard to keep our sex life spicy but I also won’t compromise my own comfort level for that. So if that’s what he’s looking for I told him he needs to find someone else, it ain’t me!


He doesn't sound very mentally stable. To be honest, by your descriptions, he comes across a bit of an idiot. No offence.


----------



## Yogi_bear

ConanHub said:


> He stole your hair dye and hid it while telling you he knows best for you?
> 
> How have you put up with this control freak for so long?
> 
> How is he with your kids?
> 
> I'm really worried about you and your children, because his behavior will negatively impact their development as well as being a huge pain in your derriere.


He says he hid it because I don’t need it, I’m beautiful the way I am. Which is why I’m confused with the implants comment. He really makes my head hurt. He tells me he is stupid now and didn’t want to hurt me yatta yatta. He messaged his friend last night to say he shouldn’t have said what he did, I’lbefore and I love my body and I def don’t want implants. I’m sure his friend is like wtf? And has t replied back but whatever. He tells me is stupid and says dumb **** but part of me wonders if someone can be THAT stupid without there being some truth under it all. Some desire for him to want me to have bigger boobs.
He is good with our kids. He struggles with our special needs son but he is a challenge and prefers me to anyone else anyway. He wakes up with the kids every weekend so I can sleep in as I work full time and wake with them all week long during the night as needed (my middle son is a terrible sleeper and always has been). My daughter is super important to him and he already jokes about getting a gun to protect her from assholes.
With the strip climb, I don’t think he thinks it’s cheating because it’s entertainment. He would be fine with me doing the same and encouraged me to so we could be even. However to me it’s NOT the same thing and I equate it to me having sex or being sexual in some way with another man. If I go to a male syrup club with my friends 99% chance we are doing it as a joke and would laugh the whole way through, not have intimate thoughts or get turned on. He denies getting turned on at the club but that infuriated me because I know he’s lying. Unless his penis doesnt work. His work buddies get away with a lot worse so I think he feels this is all innocent. I don’t think he will ever step into another strip club again, but I can’t shake the feeling of betrayal it’s left in me. I also recognize all of this is triggering terrible experiences with ex’s for me (being cheated on, comments from men about small boobs equating to self worth). I’m getting therapy for myself to work on those issues however I also think we need therapy if this marriage continues.


----------



## ConanHub

Yogi_bear said:


> Absolutely! I said we needed counselling after the strip club incident but he refused. He knows now the only way to save our marriage after this is counselling. I came home from work last night and he was on the couch reading my “5 love languages” book. 🙄 I told him he needs more than a self help book to get him out of this one! I do believe he is a good guy under it all. He has been poorly influenced as his friends, his trade in general objectifies women (carpenter) and his parents are constantly pushing important issues under the rug and not dealing with them (always smiling, life’s good- it’s all good!). I told his parents about the strip club and his comment to his friend about my underdeveloped breast and his push for implants - to make ME feel better of course 🙄. I haven’t heard a word back and I know they’ve read it. They live in Australia. Anyway, I doubt I will and I even wrote that “I know you will prob disagree with me and my decisions because he’s your son and you guys seem to often ignore major issues in favour of just getting along, but enough is enough and I have children to think about. I don’t want my sons learning this is ok to read women this way. My daughter needs to positive body image role models.” Still. Crickets!
> Interesting your wife got implants and you didn’t like it. My experience has only been with men who were indifferent to it or my ex before my husband was gonna pay for me to get them. I ended that relationship. It was way too toxic with very little good…and we didn’t have 3 kids together which always complicates things. My husband was very good to me before all this and there’s still times he is. It’s like he’s 2 ppl or dissatisfied in some way. I’ve tried hard to keep our sex life spicy but I also won’t compromise my own comfort level for that. So if that’s what he’s looking for I told him he needs to find someone else, it ain’t me!


I was also wondering about poor influence. He is showing signs of adopting bad behavior from his friends.

Mrs. C is 5' nothing and petite. She had very small breasts and I loved every part of her.

Many years into our marriage, she really started pushing for the surgery. She was never satisfied with her size and always felt insecure about it. She has five sisters and they all have large breasts. I think it really affected her image of herself when she thought it was her turn to grow into womanhood and sprouted an A cup while her sisters were all large C and D's.

I basically think all woman body types are attractive and Mrs. C has always been fit and trim and she has never failed to turn me on.

I actually had to struggle to feel close to her physically after the surgery because it felt like I was with a different woman.


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> yes, I was talking about MC.


He probably could use his head examined.


----------



## ConanHub

Yogi_bear said:


> He says he hid it because I don’t need it, I’m beautiful the way I am. Which is why I’m confused with the implants comment. He really makes my head hurt. He tells me he is stupid now and didn’t want to hurt me yatta yatta. He messaged his friend last night to say he shouldn’t have said what he did, I’lbefore and I love my body and I def don’t want implants. I’m sure his friend is like wtf? And has t replied back but whatever. He tells me is stupid and says dumb **** but part of me wonders if someone can be THAT stupid without there being some truth under it all. Some desire for him to want me to have bigger boobs.
> He is good with our kids. He struggles with our special needs son but he is a challenge and prefers me to anyone else anyway. He wakes up with the kids every weekend so I can sleep in as I work full time and wake with them all week long during the night as needed (my middle son is a terrible sleeper and always has been). My daughter is super important to him and he already jokes about getting a gun to protect her from assholes.
> With the strip climb, I don’t think he thinks it’s cheating because it’s entertainment. He would be fine with me doing the same and encouraged me to so we could be even. However to me it’s NOT the same thing and I equate it to me having sex or being sexual in some way with another man. If I go to a male syrup club with my friends 99% chance we are doing it as a joke and would laugh the whole way through, not have intimate thoughts or get turned on. He denies getting turned on at the club but that infuriated me because I know he’s lying. Unless his penis doesnt work. His work buddies get away with a lot worse so I think he feels this is all innocent. I don’t think he will ever step into another strip club again, but I can’t shake the feeling of betrayal it’s left in me. I also recognize all of this is triggering terrible experiences with ex’s for me (being cheated on, comments from men about small boobs equating to self worth). I’m getting therapy for myself to work on those issues however I also think we need therapy if this marriage continues.


I mentioned what I did about a male review and spreading humiliating information about your husband to hit him like he hit you.

It sounds like he is backpedaling pretty quickly though.

You work full time too?

I think he really scored with you and I hope he gets some help to straighten his head out.

He did cheat regardless of what he would like to label it.

The Five Love Languages is a pretty good book for people in a healthier situation than you two are.

He needs help.


----------



## Diana7

Yogi_bear said:


> Absolutely! I said we needed counselling after the strip club incident but he refused. He knows now the only way to save our marriage after this is counselling. I came home from work last night and he was on the couch reading my “5 love languages” book. 🙄 I told him he needs more than a self help book to get him out of this one! I do believe he is a good guy under it all. He has been poorly influenced as his friends, his trade in general objectifies women (carpenter) and his parents are constantly pushing important issues under the rug and not dealing with them (always smiling, life’s good- it’s all good!). I told his parents about the strip club and his comment to his friend about my underdeveloped breast and his push for implants - to make ME feel better of course 🙄. I haven’t heard a word back and I know they’ve read it. They live in Australia. Anyway, I doubt I will and I even wrote that “I know you will prob disagree with me and my decisions because he’s your son and you guys seem to often ignore major issues in favour of just getting along, but enough is enough and I have children to think about. I don’t want my sons learning this is ok to read women this way. My daughter needs to positive body image role models.” Still. Crickets!
> Interesting your wife got implants and you didn’t like it. My experience has only been with men who were indifferent to it or my ex before my husband was gonna pay for me to get them. I ended that relationship. It was way too toxic with very little good…and we didn’t have 3 kids together which always complicates things. My husband was very good to me before all this and there’s still times he is. It’s like he’s 2 ppl or dissatisfied in some way. I’ve tried hard to keep our sex life spicy but I also won’t compromise my own comfort level for that. So if that’s what he’s looking for I told him he needs to find someone else, it ain’t me!


You call it going to a strip club, but was so much more that that.


----------



## Diana7

Yogi_bear said:


> He says he hid it because I don’t need it, I’m beautiful the way I am. Which is why I’m confused with the implants comment. He really makes my head hurt. He tells me he is stupid now and didn’t want to hurt me yatta yatta. He messaged his friend last night to say he shouldn’t have said what he did, I’lbefore and I love my body and I def don’t want implants. I’m sure his friend is like wtf? And has t replied back but whatever. He tells me is stupid and says dumb **** but part of me wonders if someone can be THAT stupid without there being some truth under it all. Some desire for him to want me to have bigger boobs.
> He is good with our kids. He struggles with our special needs son but he is a challenge and prefers me to anyone else anyway. He wakes up with the kids every weekend so I can sleep in as I work full time and wake with them all week long during the night as needed (my middle son is a terrible sleeper and always has been). My daughter is super important to him and he already jokes about getting a gun to protect her from assholes.
> With the strip climb, I don’t think he thinks it’s cheating because it’s entertainment. He would be fine with me doing the same and encouraged me to so we could be even. However to me it’s NOT the same thing and I equate it to me having sex or being sexual in some way with another man. If I go to a male syrup club with my friends 99% chance we are doing it as a joke and would laugh the whole way through, not have intimate thoughts or get turned on. He denies getting turned on at the club but that infuriated me because I know he’s lying. Unless his penis doesnt work. His work buddies get away with a lot worse so I think he feels this is all innocent. I don’t think he will ever step into another strip club again, but I can’t shake the feeling of betrayal it’s left in me. I also recognize all of this is triggering terrible experiences with ex’s for me (being cheated on, comments from men about small boobs equating to self worth). I’m getting therapy for myself to work on those issues however I also think we need therapy if this marriage continues.


Would that be to protect your daughter from assholes like him? 
Watching a stripper is one thing, having prolonged sexual contact with women who are gyrating on your lap is another. He says it's ok because it's 'entertainment'???????. Wow.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Once I have crossed the line and desire another woman sexually, even if it’s just in my head, I’ve committed infidelity.

To @Diana7 point, I can see watching a woman strip and not crossing that mental line. But when she’s in my face with all her goodies… yea, it’s not likely that a line would exist unless she put it there.

Most loyal husbands won’t put themselves in that position in the first place.
The ones that do aren’t loyal and are looking for a hookup.


----------



## ConanHub

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Once I have crossed the line and desire another woman sexually, even if it’s just in my head, I’ve committed infidelity.
> 
> To @Diana7 point, I can see watching a woman strip and not crossing that mental line. But when she’s in my face with all her goodies… yea, it’s not likely that a line would exist unless she put it there.
> 
> Most loyal husbands won’t put themselves in that position in the first place.
> The ones that do aren’t loyal and are looking for a hookup.


Watching a woman strip for an audience is sexual.

The only circumstance I can envision otherwise is emergencies like medical for example.

I've had women disrobe, helped them and cut their clothes off their unconscious bodies and gotten very up close and personal with their chests and pelvis for emergency medical treatment.

The only thing on my mind at the time was the health and life of the patient.

Sitting back with a drink while a woman dances, disrobes and then plays around while on my lap are all sexual in nature.

I'm not sure about the "line" being discussed but it's all about sex with strippers.

They aren't selling the guys insurance.😉


----------



## Openminded

Yeah, he’s stupid — no doubt about that — and he’s backpedaling now but he still meant what he said.


----------



## Openminded

He wanted you to be even so you no longer had the moral high ground. Like my husband did when I caught him cheating — I got a hall pass for whatever I wanted to do. Nope.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Watching a woman strip for an audience is sexual.
> 
> The only circumstance I can envision otherwise is emergencies like medical for example.
> 
> I've had women disrobe, helped them and cut their clothes off their unconscious bodies and gotten very up close and personal with their chests and pelvis for emergency medical treatment.
> 
> The only thing on my mind at the time was the health and life of the patient.
> 
> Sitting back with a drink while a woman dances, disrobes and then plays around while on my lap are all sexual in nature.
> 
> I'm not sure about the "line" being discussed but it's all about sex with strippers.
> 
> They aren't selling the guys insurance.😉


For me both are no no's but as I see it actual one to one up close sexual contact is even worse than watching a stripper.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> For me both are no no's but as I see it actual one to one up close sexual contact is even worse than watching a stripper.


Well, like I said, those ladies are selling something and it isn't insurance.😋


----------



## Diana7

I have to wonder if this is the one and only time he has been to a club like that. Especially as you said that his mates do this a lot.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Well, like I said, those ladies are selling something and it isn't insurance.😋


Agreed.


----------



## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Put me in agreement with Conan.
> If my wife wanted them I would freak out on her. NO
> Having said that, I'm sure I would relent if she kept at it but I would NOT be in favor.
> 
> Good for you about the email. His parents sound like real gems. But parents will always support their children so don't expect too much there.
> Now send it to your whole contact list. All his friends, your whole family, etc.


He corrected himself to his friend and said he shouldn’t have said that, he loves my body and of course it developed properly and is gorgeous. He was wrong for assuming I’d want implants. His friend responded with “did you get in trouble for saying that bro?” Obviously because even his friend, who is way worse at objectifying women than my husband, sees that is a no no In a relationship and his wife (who is so insecure she dropped a friend that her husband said was attractive) would have gone ballistic if he said that about her to another man.
His parents need to know because when they come over here to visit later this year things might look very different than they are now. They need to know I’m not standing for this crap. I know parents will always stand up for their children but I said if a woman our boys were married to said our sons were exhibiting similar behaviour and comments, my advice to my son would be a slap over the head and a huge wake up call! I would feel like I failed them as a parent for them to have such skewed morals and values.


----------



## MiaMia0930

Yogi_bear said:


> Hi All, I am new here and looking for some thoughts on best way to handle this situation.
> 
> A few years ago now (pre pandemic) my husband went to a strip club on a work trip in Vegas. It was a lap dance bar and I found out he had multiple lap dances there. Wasn’t super happy about it. Today we were talking about it, as ever since then I’ve struggled with body image issues with my breasts - I’m a cup size A after having and Brest feeding 3 babies. I was always smaller (b cup) but even smaller since babies. The reason the topic came up so many years later was because he is always pestering me for nude pictures. I have sent him some and tried to keep things spicy in our relationship, but he keeps asking for more and honestly I feel it's harder for me to do sexy photos on my own due to my lack of cleavage and the like, so I was telling him that.
> 
> So I was explaining to my husband how it made me feel crappy to know he was touching (yes he confirmed he was touching and fondling) other women's big breasts - something I lack and I felt this was disrespectful and crossed a line in our marriage. I never had issues with my breasts in our relationship until I found out he went to the lap dance bar and spent hundreds on lap dances. He also lied to me about it initially and slowly things came out. So this triggered my past insecurities (years of dealing with mens comments and opinions - my boyfriend before I met my husband argued that he wanted me to get implants and it really ruined our relationship - among other things!
> 
> Move forward a few hours and he brings up me getting breast implants. He started researching and finding pictures of them to show me, without me asking. Also knowing I’m deathly afraid of any surgery and also have mixed feelings about them as I’ve known ppl who got implant illness and ultimately had to remove the implants to regain better quality of life. Anyway, my husband has a friend he works with whose wife had breast augmentation surgery last year. He told me he messaged him and he said they were “only 13k”. I didn’t say much to it as I didn't even say I wanted them. Later I saw on his phone this conversation, as it was open. I read that he told his friend that I want breast implants because my boobs "never grew to their full natural size” because I played sports and my coaches "trained me too hard". His friend was encouraging of me getting them. Then he went on to talk about how we will have hot tub parties with our wives with big boobs once it’s done. This really upset me for many reasons- first, I’m pretty sure my boobs DID grow to their natural size, it’s just smaller than most. I am a smaller person as well. Second, it upset me that when I bring up how it affected me he was touching these other girls breasts, the first thing he goes to is making mine the same as theirs. Thirdly, I didn't ask him to tell his friend ANY of that, it was a private conversation between us and a personal issue that I deal with. I don't even talk to my closest friends about it (often, I have brought it up occasionally when dealing with assholes, or after having kids etc). Also, telling his friend that I WANT them because I didn't grow to my natural size. Like WTF? I have so many thoughts and feelings about this comment. I had told him how some guys made you feel like you had a deformity unless you were a certain size. Well, this comment almost was along the same lines to me - something that didn't form properly. Also, I have no intention of getting a boob job, for many reasons, and now he has told his friend that I am so I feel that will make things a bit awkward between us when we all hang out - he will no doubt tell his wife, and who knows who else as this friend has a big mouth (loves to talk about others). I also feel a little betrayed that my husband would turn to a friend to share my most personal insecurity with. This is a guy who my husband was worried to tell that other companies were trying to poach him, because he was worried that he would tell others in his company before he made his decision on what to do. Yet, he has no problems sharing this very personal issue with him without even discussing it with me first.
> 
> I have so many feelings about this and would like others input about the situation. I don't want to talk about it to our friends as I try to keep our "dirty laundry" between us. So thought an anonymous board might be the way to go.
> 
> I can't deny my feelings about it but his first reaction when I talked to him about the texts between his friend about me was to get angry at me. He says I'm ridiculous and anytime he tries to "help me" with this issue (my small boobs) it causes problems. I didn't think I wanted help with it, just to talk about how it made me feel. Am I being ridiculous?


I have literally (no seriously this is literally what I’ve been through) been there. Guess what, I got the boob job…why because I told him “anything you do, I do” at the beginning of our relationship. So, he fondled some ladies tits and now I get to give that same thing to another man. Is he happy about it? Nope. But, it’s teaching him a lesson he’ll remember for the rest of his life. Sometimes, men have to be shown what it feels like. Men like to say, “oh, I wouldn’t mind you going to a male strip club” right, but that’s not the same. We can’t stroke their penis and pecks are far from appealing. They don’t grope our breasts or rub our bodies..So, it’s not getting us even slightly aroused. It’s comedy, at most. The only way it’s equal is for the woman to do the same to another man. If it “means nothing” then it should be no biggie?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> He says he hid it because I don’t need it, I’m beautiful the way I am. Which is why I’m confused with the implants comment. He really makes my head hurt. He tells me he is stupid now and didn’t want to hurt me yatta yatta. He messaged his friend last night to say he shouldn’t have said what he did, I’lbefore and I love my body and I def don’t want implants. I’m sure his friend is like wtf? And has t replied back but whatever. He tells me is stupid and says dumb **** but part of me wonders if someone can be THAT stupid without there being some truth under it all. Some desire for him to want me to have bigger boobs.
> He is good with our kids. He struggles with our special needs son but he is a challenge and prefers me to anyone else anyway. He wakes up with the kids every weekend so I can sleep in as I work full time and wake with them all week long during the night as needed (my middle son is a terrible sleeper and always has been). My daughter is super important to him and he already jokes about getting a gun to protect her from assholes.
> With the strip climb, I don’t think he thinks it’s cheating because it’s entertainment. He would be fine with me doing the same and encouraged me to so we could be even. However to me it’s NOT the same thing and I equate it to me having sex or being sexual in some way with another man. If I go to a male syrup club with my friends 99% chance we are doing it as a joke and would laugh the whole way through, not have intimate thoughts or get turned on. He denies getting turned on at the club but that infuriated me because I know he’s lying. Unless his penis doesnt work. His work buddies get away with a lot worse so I think he feels this is all innocent. I don’t think he will ever step into another strip club again, but I can’t shake the feeling of betrayal it’s left in me. I also recognize all of this is triggering terrible experiences with ex’s for me (being cheated on, comments from men about small boobs equating to self worth). I’m getting therapy for myself to work on those issues however I also think we need therapy if this marriage continues.


Oh trust me, he's the one who wants bigger boobs. This nonsense about doing it because he thinks you want them or feel bad about yourself is just lies. I mean get real. Doesn't he think if you yourself wanted bigger boobs that you yourself would have looked into it? Of course he does. He knew you were never going to so he wanted to see if he could spin the message in such a way as to get you to accept it.

He may be stupid but he's not too stupid to totally try to manipulate you into something that only he wants. What he is is unempathetic and disloyal and doesn't understand the meaning of the word cheating.


Plus his communications with that guy clearly show that he's aiming at getting into a swinger lifestyle with those hot tub comments but not until after he gets you big impressive huge fake boobs.

I doubt seriously that he truly wouldn't mind if you went to a male strip club and got the equivalent of a lap dance or sex. He's only saying that because he knows you would never do that.

And he's also saying that because if by some miracle you did do it, then he would feel that would give him license to cheat and start living that swinging lifestyle he's wanting now.


----------



## MiaMia0930

Talker67 said:


> guys are not allowed to touch women's breasts as they get a lap dance. there are a couple big bouncers, named Bruno and Stitch, who insure that policy is strictly followed in all topless bars.


Sorry, but they do allow touching in many establishments. My husband and I went through this same thing.
Hopefully, OP decides to get them for herself and see how empowering it makes her feel. Because since getting mine, I went from the jealous one to him being the jealous one. Now I have the idgaf attitude. While he’s graveling at my feet. (Just another reason I don’t link sex and emotions)


----------



## ConanHub

MiaLancer69 said:


> I have literally (no seriously this is literally what I’ve been through) been there. Guess what, I got the boob job…why because I told him “anything you do, I do” at the beginning of our relationship. So, he fondled some ladies tits and now I get to give that same thing to another man. Is he happy about it? Nope. But, it’s teaching him a lesson he’ll remember for the rest of his life. Sometimes, men have to be shown what it feels like. Men like to say, “oh, I wouldn’t mind you going to a male strip club” right, but that’s not the same. We can’t stroke their penis and pecks are far from appealing. They don’t grope our breasts or rub our bodies..So, it’s not getting us even slightly aroused. It’s comedy, at most. The only way it’s equal is for the woman to do the same to another man. If it “means nothing” then it should be no biggie?


How do you go about giving the same thing to another man?

Enquiring minds want to know...😉

P.S. I know a lot of ladies, my wife included thankfully, that love touching pecks and muscles.

It actually got a friend of mine in trouble and eventually divorced because he didn't mind his wife going to male reviews where touching was part of the show.


----------



## MiaMia0930

ConanHub said:


> How do you go about giving the same thing to another man?
> 
> Enquiring minds want to know...😉
> 
> P.S. I know a lot of ladies, my wife included thankfully, that love touching pecks and muscles.
> 
> It actually got a friend of mine in trouble and eventually divorced because he didn't mind his wife going to male reviews where touching was part of the show.


Go to a strip club with ya man, then ask a rando guy if he’d like a show outside. Give him that show after leaving the club, all groping allowed.
Perhaps for some women, but most of us (that I know) find the thought of male strippers comedy lol . Seriously, every time I’ve seen one of the shows, it was non stop laughing. Most certainly different than a female strip club, which is sensual and seductive.


----------



## Yogi_bear

MiaLancer69 said:


> I have literally (no seriously this is literally what I’ve been through) been there. Guess what, I got the boob job…why because I told him “anything you do, I do” at the beginning of our relationship. So, he fondled some ladies tits and now I get to give that same thing to another man. Is he happy about it? Nope. But, it’s teaching him a lesson he’ll remember for the rest of his life. Sometimes, men have to be shown what it feels like. Men like to say, “oh, I wouldn’t mind you going to a male strip club” right, but that’s not the same. We can’t stroke their penis and pecks are far from appealing. They don’t grope our breasts or rub our bodies..So, it’s not getting us even slightly aroused. It’s comedy, at most. The only way it’s equal is for the woman to do the same to another man. If it “means nothing” then it should be no biggie?


So this is EXACTLY my argument with my husband. Going to a male strip club is comedy. My girls and I would laugh and have a good time but def NOT get aroused or have fantasies about it. I don’t find super muscley men hot, I prefer a much more subtle physique. So most of those places don’t even appeal to me from an attractive perspective.
I told my husband yesterday that the only equivalent would be ME straddling some dude 3/4 naked and letting him fondle MY breasts and me grinding on him until he’s erect. I could tell from the look on my husbands face just picturing that was a problem for him. However he still thinks it’s different. He still stands by his claim that he only suggested, researched and asked his friend about the implants because he thought it would make ME feel better. I still argue that he went into action about something I NEVER mentioned I wanted very fast, following a conversation about how him fondling other womens breasts brought up past insecurities about my chest size and it makes me feel uncomfortable.
I hope you’re ok with having the implants? I would never do anything that drastic for a man unless I was also wanting it or on board, so at the very least I hope this was the situation in your case.


----------



## Yogi_bear

ConanHub said:


> How do you go about giving the same thing to another man?
> 
> Enquiring minds want to know...😉
> 
> P.S. I know a lot of ladies, my wife included thankfully, that love touching pecks and muscles.
> 
> It actually got a friend of mine in trouble and eventually divorced because he didn't mind his wife going to male reviews where touching was part of the show.


Your friend got divorced because he didn’t mind his wife going to the shows? Oh, so he thought it was the same for him and she didn’t think so?


----------



## Yogi_bear

MiaLancer69 said:


> Go to a strip club with ya man, then ask a rando guy if he’d like a show outside. Give him that show after leaving the club, all groping allowed.
> Perhaps for some women, but most of us (that I know) find the thought of male strippers comedy lol . Seriously, every time I’ve seen one of the shows, it was non stop laughing. Most certainly different than a female strip club, which is sensual and seductive.


Definitely. This is what my husband fails to understand. If I went with my girls it would be for laughs. I’m actually uncomfortable with the thought of some sweaty half naked man grinding on me lol I can think of 100 things I’d rather do with my time (and money).


----------



## Yogi_bear

MiaLancer69 said:


> Sorry, but they do allow touching in many establishments. My husband and I went through this same thing.
> Hopefully, OP decides to get them for herself and see how empowering it makes her feel. Because since getting mine, I went from the jealous one to him being the jealous one. Now I have the idgaf attitude. While he’s graveling at my feet. (Just another reason I don’t link sex and emotions)


Wouldn’t it be beautiful to have that same “I don’t give a ****” attitude and NOT have to change my body with major surgery to do so though? That’s what I hope for in my daughter. I will never get implants for many reasons. I’m not the problem. Certain Men and society are.


----------



## MiaMia0930

Yogi_bear said:


> So this is EXACTLY my argument with my husband. Going to a male strip club is comedy. My girls and I would laugh and have a good time but def NOT get aroused or have fantasies about it. I don’t find super muscley men hot, I prefer a much more subtle physique. So most of those places don’t even appeal to me from an attractive perspective.
> I told my husband yesterday that the only equivalent would be ME straddling some dude 3/4 naked and letting him fondle MY breasts and me grinding on him until he’s erect. I could tell from the look on my husbands face just picturing that was a problem for him. However he still thinks it’s different. He still stands by his claim that he only suggested, researched and asked his friend about the implants because he thought it would make ME feel better. I still argue that he went into action about something I NEVER mentioned I wanted very fast, following a conversation about how him fondling other womens breasts brought up past insecurities about my chest size and it makes me feel uncomfortable.
> I hope you’re ok with having the implants? I would never do anything that drastic for a man unless I was also wanting it or on board, so at the very least I hope this was the situation in your case.


I’ve always wanted implants, because I was born with a deformity that restricted my breast growth (that can’t happen from sports, so don’t let him fool you. My sister has 36DD and she played all sports). So, I definitely wanted them for me. However, I wasn’t necessarily in a rush to get them, as I wanted it to be out of self love and self care rather than insecurities. So, I learned to love my body first, as it was. It just so happened that as I learned to love me, that’s when he went to the club, and that’s when I had just made my consultation, haha! things just seemed to align. I’ve always been a bit petty and also hold true to my promises. He’s not all that happy about it, but I wasn’t happy with what he did, either.


----------



## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh trust me, he's the one who wants bigger boobs. This nonsense about doing it because he thinks you want them or feel bad about yourself is just lies. I mean get real. Doesn't he think if you yourself wanted bigger boobs that you yourself would have looked into it? Of course he does. He knew you were never going to so he wanted to see if he could spin the message in such a way as to get you to accept it.
> 
> He may be stupid but he's not too stupid to totally try to manipulate you into something that only he wants. What he is is unempathetic and disloyal and doesn't understand the meaning of the word cheating.
> 
> 
> Plus his communications with that guy clearly show that he's aiming at getting into a swinger lifestyle with those hot tub comments but not until after he gets you big impressive huge fake boobs.
> 
> I doubt seriously that he truly wouldn't mind if you went to a male strip club and got the equivalent of a lap dance or sex. He's only saying that because he knows you would never do that.
> 
> And he's also saying that because if by some miracle you did do it, then he would feel that would give him license to cheat and start living that swinging lifestyle he's wanting now.


Sadly I agree with everything you said.


----------



## MiaMia0930

Yogi_bear said:


> Wouldn’t it be beautiful to have that same “I don’t give a ****” attitude and NOT have to change my body with major surgery to do so though? That’s what I hope for in my daughter. I will never get implants for many reasons. I’m not the problem. Certain Men and society are.


Oh, I definitely didn’t do it for him. I love myself very much and did it 100% for me. It’s just nice to see how the roles have reversed. It’s no longer me “chasing him” it’s him chasing me. I no longer care what he does, because as I said, “whatever he can do, so can I.”


----------



## ConanHub

Yogi_bear said:


> Your friend got divorced because he didn’t mind his wife going to the shows? Oh, so he thought it was the same for him and she didn’t think so?


Unlike you and @MiaLancer69 , his wife got incredibly turned on by the muscular male strippers and my friend was basically farming her sexuality out. He really liked her coming home as hot as a firecracker, ready to explode but it certainly wasn't him stirring her flames. I warned him it was unhealthy but by then I think it was too late.

She cheated on him and left.


----------



## MiaMia0930

ConanHub said:


> Unlike you and @MiaLancer69 , his wife got incredibly turned on by the muscular male strippers and my friend was basically farming her sexuality out. He really liked her coming home as hot as a firecracker, ready to explode but it certainly wasn't him stirring her flames. I warned him it was unhealthy but by then I think it was too late.
> 
> She cheated on him and left.


Almost like what women keep telling men will happen if they continue with lap dances? They eventually won’t be turned on by their wives because they’ll always need something new…which will eventually lead to cheating…just as in the case with your friends wife.


----------



## Yogi_bear

MiaLancer69 said:


> I’ve always wanted implants, because I was born with a deformity that restricted my breast growth (that can’t happen from sports, so don’t let him fool you. My sister has 36DD and she played all sports). So, I definitely wanted them for me. However, I wasn’t necessarily in a rush to get them, as I wanted it to be out of self love and self care rather than insecurities. So, I learned to love my body first, as it was. It just so happened that as I learned to love me, that’s when he went to the club, and that’s when I had just made my consultation, haha! things just seemed to align. I’ve always been a bit petty and also hold true to my promises. He’s not all that happy about it, but I wasn’t happy with what he did, either.


Are you guys still together?

I absolutely know my smaller chest size didn’t come from playing sports lol.However my sister has DD and my mum is a generous c cup. I am the smallest framed woman in my family. Everyone including cousins and aunts and nieces all have c cup and up. So I think in his mind he believes IMUST not have formed properly. I used to be a small B cup then got really large while breast feeding (which he loved and I hated Cos it was sore) and after breast feeding they went down to an A cup which IS disappointing but I don’t think it’s enough to push me to get surgery. I’m deathly afraid of surgery and also afraid of implant illness (I’ve known 2 ppl personally to go through this, one had a deformity where boobs were different sizes but she still chose to take them out and just learn to love herself for her because she was that sick with them in). Also we don’t have 13k laying around to do it so would need to take out a loan? We’re left with high medical bills from mysons treatments and we live in the most expensive city in North America. Even with both of us working full time. It’s just not feasible without A loan


----------



## MiaMia0930

Yogi_bear said:


> Are you guys still together?
> 
> I absolutely know my smaller chest size didn’t come from playing sports lol.However my sister has DD and my mum is a generous c cup. I am the smallest framed woman in my family. Everyone including cousins and aunts and nieces all have c cup and up. So I think in his mind he believes IMUST not have formed properly. I used to be a small B cup then got really large while breast feeding (which he loved and I hated Cos it was sore) and after breast feeding they went down to an A cup which IS disappointing but I don’t think it’s enough to push me to get surgery. I’m deathly afraid of surgery and also afraid of implant illness (I’ve known 2 ppl personally to go through this, one had a deformity where boobs were different sizes but she still chose to take them out and just learn to love herself for her because she was that sick with them in). Also we don’t have 13k laying around to do it so would need to take out a loan? We’re left with high medical bills from mysons treatments and we live in the most expensive city in North America. Even with both of us working full time. It’s just not feasible without A loan


We are still together. He eventually came around and saw it as “equality” because that’s the only way it could possibly be equal. He know holds himself to the same standard that he holds me to.
I’m not sure about your area, but I shopped around and found a doctor close to me that does them and is world renowned for TUBA implants (they are the safest and quickest surgery and recovery). Mine were $5500. It wasn’t the cheapest I found but not the most expensive either (cheapest was $3200 and most expensive was $10,000). I was worried about implant illness, so I spoke to my doctor at the consultation (which in my area is free because it’s just them giving you info and trying on sizes) and he said that there hasn’t been a proven link between the two, but that it could possibly come down to the type and/or manufacturer of the implants and how each person reacts. He’s been doing this for 30 yrs and his father did it for 40yrs. In that time, they never had any patient present and symptoms of implant illness.
If it’s something you’re interested in or might be, I would suggest just researching as much as you can. You don’t have to go with the same surgeon as his friends wife did. You can and should choose who and what you feel comfortable with. I spent 5 years casually researching then another year heavily researching.


----------



## Yogi_bear

ConanHub said:


> Unlike you and @MiaLancer69 , his wife got incredibly turned on by the muscular male strippers and my friend was basically farming her sexuality out. He really liked her coming home as hot as a firecracker, ready to explode but it certainly wasn't him stirring her flames. I warned him it was unhealthy but by then I think it was too late.
> 
> She cheated on him and left.


Yikes! I can see how that would end up going down that path.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> Are you guys still together?
> 
> I absolutely know my smaller chest size didn’t come from playing sports lol.However my sister has DD and my mum is a generous c cup. I am the smallest framed woman in my family. Everyone including cousins and aunts and nieces all have c cup and up. So I think in his mind he believes IMUST not have formed properly. I used to be a small B cup then got really large while breast feeding (which he loved and I hated Cos it was sore) and after breast feeding they went down to an A cup which IS disappointing but I don’t think it’s enough to push me to get surgery. I’m deathly afraid of surgery and also afraid of implant illness (I’ve known 2 ppl personally to go through this, one had a deformity where boobs were different sizes but she still chose to take them out and just learn to love herself for her because she was that sick with them in). Also we don’t have 13k laying around to do it so would need to take out a loan? We’re left with high medical bills from mysons treatments and we live in the most expensive city in North America. Even with both of us working full time. It’s just not feasible without A loan


Honestly, after you said "I don't want to do it" nothing else matters. No justification is needed and anyone that thinks otherwise is WRONG.


----------



## ConanHub

Yogi_bear said:


> Yikes! I can see how that would end up going down that path.


Yup. Traded him in for a younger model even.

If it wasn't for his young daughter, I would say good riddance to bad rubbish.

His overall mental health has improved since she left though.


----------



## Yogi_bear

MiaLancer69 said:


> We are still together. He eventually came around and saw it as “equality” because that’s the only way it could possibly be equal. He know holds himself to the same standard that he holds me to.
> I’m not sure about your area, but I shopped around and found a doctor close to me that does them and is world renowned for TUBA implants (they are the safest and quickest surgery and recovery). Mine were $5500. It wasn’t the cheapest I found but not the most expensive either (cheapest was $3200 and most expensive was $10,000). I was worried about implant illness, so I spoke to my doctor at the consultation (which in my area is free because it’s just them giving you info and trying on sizes) and he said that there hasn’t been a proven link between the two, but that it could possibly come down to the type and/or manufacturer of the implants and how each person reacts. He’s been doing this for 30 yrs and his father did it for 40yrs. In that time, they never had any patient present and symptoms of implant illness.
> If it’s something you’re interested in or might be, I would suggest just researching as much as you can. You don’t have to go with the same surgeon as his friends wife did. You can and should choose who and what you feel comfortable with. I spent 5 years casually researching then another year heavily researching.


Of course the plastic surgeon won’t say there is a link lol I personally feel the causation is from autoimmune reactions so is very individualized however there is a small (5%) chance that I could have my vocal cords cut with thyroidectomy surgery as well (something I needed) and never speak again but to me that was too great a risk so I chose another option, which also had risks but I felt were smaller. Our area is quite expensive and you would NEVER find implants of any kind for $3200 here. She didn’t even need implants as she was already a c cup and it cost her $13k to go up 1 size and get a lift. The cheapest I have heard of in my area is 8k. Not that it matters.


----------



## Yogi_bear

ConanHub said:


> Yup. Traded him in for a younger model even.
> 
> If it wasn't for his young daughter, I would say good riddance to bad rubbish.
> 
> His overall mental health has improved since she left though.


Well I’m glad something good came out of it for him!


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> Are you guys still together?
> 
> I absolutely know my smaller chest size didn’t come from playing sports lol.However my sister has DD and my mum is a generous c cup. I am the smallest framed woman in my family. Everyone including cousins and aunts and nieces all have c cup and up. So I think in his mind he believes IMUST not have formed properly. I used to be a small B cup then got really large while breast feeding (which he loved and I hated Cos it was sore) and after breast feeding they went down to an A cup which IS disappointing but I don’t think it’s enough to push me to get surgery. I’m deathly afraid of surgery and also afraid of implant illness (I’ve known 2 ppl personally to go through this, one had a deformity where boobs were different sizes but she still chose to take them out and just learn to love herself for her because she was that sick with them in). Also we don’t have 13k laying around to do it so would need to take out a loan? We’re left with high medical bills from mysons treatments and we live in the most expensive city in North America. Even with both of us working full time. It’s just not feasible without A loan


The couple of women I've known who had them then had to live with back aches for the rest of their lives.


----------



## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> The couple of women I've known who had them then had to live with back aches for the rest of their lives.


I don’t need to invite anymore backache into my life lol already have enough of that and boob size doesn’t even factor in lol


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> I don’t need to invite anymore backache into my life lol already have enough of that and boob size doesn’t even factor in lol


I have a friend who completely ruined her back for life just by toting around a three year old. There sometimes has to be follow-up operations as well because different things can go wrong. When this woman I know who used to be a stripper was about late 40s, she said she was needing to have some kind of corrective surgery on hers. And of course if you get in a car wreck or something and they get smashed, it can cause all kinds of problems.


----------



## MiaMia0930

Yogi_bear said:


> Of course the plastic surgeon won’t say there is a link lol I personally feel the causation is from autoimmune reactions so is very individualized however there is a small (5%) chance that I could have my vocal cords cut with thyroidectomy surgery as well (something I needed) and never speak again but to me that was too great a risk so I chose another option, which also had risks but I felt were smaller. Our area is quite expensive and you would NEVER find implants of any kind for $3200 here. She didn’t even need implants as she was already a c cup and it cost her $13k to go up 1 size and get a lift. The cheapest I have heard of in my area is 8k. Not that it matters.


Oh my, yeah, if I had needa lift (thankfully I didn’t) it would have been $7500. I have 10 friends who have them and thus far don’t seem to have issues, aside from one that went to a pretty shady doctor, but her problem was more about scarring. Most of them have gotten theirs within the past 5 years, but one has had them 15 years and another one for 22 years.


----------



## Yogi_bear

MiaLancer69 said:


> Oh my, yeah, if I had needa lift (thankfully I didn’t) it would have been $7500. I have 10 friends who have them and thus far don’t seem to have issues, aside from one that went to a pretty shady doctor, but her problem was more about scarring. Most of them have gotten theirs within the past 5 years, but one has had them 15 years and another one for 22 years.


Wow you have 10 friends who have them? It’s so normalized. I don’t know why, but that makes me sad. I’m glad they’ve all mostly worked out well for them and they are happy.


----------



## MiaMia0930

Yogi_bear said:


> Wow you have 10 friends who have them? It’s so normalized. I don’t know why, but that makes me sad. I’m glad they’ve all mostly worked out well for them and they are happy.


Yeah, it’s definitely more common in my area, I believe. Though, you’d be surprised at how many people have them, but look so natural you can’t tell. Some people don’t like the fake look, while others do. I wanted a natural look lol so when I meet new people they are surprised to hear they’re implants.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Once you get them, you have to wear a very supportive bra just all the time. You can usually tell fake ones just by how compacted they look on someone kind of the same way a sports bra makes you look. The doctor may even tell you to sleep in it for best results. And then unless you're a back sleeper, you have to find new positions to sleep in because side and stomach sleep is no longer comfortable. 




__





After Breast Augmentation: Should I Wear a Bra During Sleep - Dallas, TX


Many breast augmentation patients wonder if wearing a bra to sleep will prevent their implants and boobs from sagging. Dr. Paul G. Pin answers those questions.




www.paulpinmd.com


----------



## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> Once you get them, you have to wear a very supportive bra just all the time. You can usually tell fake ones just by how compacted they look on someone kind of the same way a sports bra makes you look. The doctor may even tell you to sleep in it for best results. And then unless you're a back sleeper, you have to find new positions to sleep in because side and stomach sleep is no longer comfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After Breast Augmentation: Should I Wear a Bra During Sleep - Dallas, TX
> 
> 
> Many breast augmentation patients wonder if wearing a bra to sleep will prevent their implants and boobs from sagging. Dr. Paul G. Pin answers those questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.paulpinmd.com


Yeah sounds too high maintenance for me lol 

my husband messaged his friend to correct the comment he made. His friend said “did you get in trouble?” And he said yes and his friend replied with “your wife is beautiful Bro, you’re a very lucky guy. She shouldn’t be worried about her body” I was like geez even he gets it, and I’d say in his younger years he frequented strip clubs and objectified women more, but he’s grown up lots in the past few years. Maybe one day my husband will too!


----------



## TexasMom1216

MiaLancer69 said:


> Yeah, it’s definitely more common in my area, I believe. Though, you’d be surprised at how many people have them, but look so natural you can’t tell. Some people don’t like the fake look, while others do. I wanted a natural look lol so when I meet new people they are surprised to hear they’re implants.


Same.


----------



## In Absentia

Yogi_bear said:


> Yeah sounds too high maintenance for me lol
> 
> my husband messaged his friend to correct the comment he made. His friend said “did you get in trouble?” And he said yes and his friend replied with “your wife is beautiful Bro, you’re a very lucky guy. She shouldn’t be worried about her body” I was like geez even he gets it, and I’d say in his younger years he frequented strip clubs and objectified women more, but he’s grown up lots in the past few years. Maybe one day my husband will too!


bloody hell… sorry about the language


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> Yeah sounds too high maintenance for me lol
> 
> my husband messaged his friend to correct the comment he made. His friend said “did you get in trouble?” And he said yes and his friend replied with “your wife is beautiful Bro, you’re a very lucky guy. She shouldn’t be worried about her body” I was like geez even he gets it, and I’d say in his younger years he frequented strip clubs and objectified women more, but he’s grown up lots in the past few years. Maybe one day my husband will too!


For him to unfocus on it, it's going to take effort on his part, not watching porn, not going to strip clubs, etc. Which I'm sure he will kick back on. And it's not like you can erase what's in his brain. He's 40 years old. He should have gotten over this a long time ago. I will be anxious to see if you ever hear if he hears anything from his parents.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

*


Yogi_bear said:



The part I struggle with is he says he loves my boobs the way they are.

Click to expand...

*Come on, OP. Stop trying so hard to eat the **** sandwich he's served up to you.

*



I do believe he loves me, but gets carried away with the idea of improving me.

Click to expand...

*To benefit HIMSELF. You honestly think his desires are altruistic with your HEALTH in mind? Stop trying so hard to eat the **** sandwich he's served up to you.

*



For example he’s trying to get a 6 pack for me.

Click to expand...

*Sure he is. It's all for *YOU* because he wants nothing more in this world than to please YOU. It has nothing to do with wanting female attention, no sir. Stop trying so hard to eat the **** sandwich he's served up to you.

Self-delusion will get you nowhere.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

He wants those abs so he can get in the hot tub with his buddy he talks about your boobs with, because apparently big fake boobs and a six pack are the price of admission. Guys start doing that middle age so they can convince themselves they're still hot, mostly not for their wives, and certainly not in this case, where he's actively putting you down trying to make you feel like you're not enough and doing things that would make a lot of women leave. They start thinking (and in his case, he knows he deserves it) Hey, what if my wife left me, could I still get hot women? Imma get me a six pack. Don't know who's going to see it since he'll mostly have a shirt on over it, but they'll see it in that hot tub.

The one good thing that might come out of him talking to that guy about how much his wife's boobs cost might be that knowing your husband is salivating over his wife's boobs might just make the guy not want to have anything to do with him around his wife unless they are in this together.


----------



## TexasMom1216

DownByTheRiver said:


> He wants those abs so he can get in the hot tub with his buddy he talks about your boobs with, because apparently big fake boobs and a six pack are the price of admission. Guys start doing that middle age so they can convince themselves they're still hot, mostly not for their wives, and certainly not in this case, where he's actively putting you down trying to make you feel like you're not enough and doing things that would make a lot of women leave. They start thinking (and in his case, he knows he deserves it) Hey, what if my wife left me, could I still get hot women? Imma get me a six pack. Don't know who's going to see it since he'll mostly have a shirt on over it, but they'll see it in that hot tub.
> 
> The one good thing that might come out of him talking to that guy about how much his wife's boobs cost might be that knowing your husband is salivating over his wife's boobs might just make the guy not want to have anything to do with him around his wife unless they are in this together.


He’s running her down to justify cheating, right? Those guys, we all know them.


----------



## ConanHub

Can we turn this into another penis thread?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ConanHub said:


> Can we turn this into another penis thread?


We already did. You missed it. You were late to the party.


----------



## Yogi_bear

ConanHub said:


> Can we turn this into another penis thread?


What’s a penis thread? Lol


----------



## ConanHub

Yogi_bear said:


> What’s a penis thread? Lol


It's a TAM insider joke. Stick around long enough and one will pop up.😉


----------



## Yogi_bear

ConanHub said:


> It's a TAM insider joke. Stick around long enough and one will pop up.😉


Ah ok. Looking forward to it? Lol 😬


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> Ah ok. Looking forward to it? Lol 😬


No matter what the thread is originally about, they usually eventually morph into a select few different things people are passionate about and discuss ad nauseam. I already made the penis comments, so hopefully that will be the end of that.

Actually your post is kind of a rare bird because everyone is in agreement about it and on the same side which is very rare because it can be very polarized sometimes, and that's when things devolve.


----------



## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> No matter what the thread is originally about, they usually eventually morph into a select few different things people are passionate about and discuss ad nauseam. I already made the penis comments, so hopefully that will be the end of that.
> 
> Actually your post is kind of a rare bird because everyone is in agreement about it and on the same side which is very rare because it can be very polarized sometimes, and that's when things devolve.


Except for the girl convincing me to get a boob job of course? Lol


----------



## ConanHub

Yogi_bear said:


> Except for the girl convincing me to get a boob job of course? Lol


Always good to have a few differing perspectives.

She was coming from a different place but it's interesting to read about her experience.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> Except for the girl convincing me to get a boob job of course? Lol


Oh, yes. Forgot about that. Here, fix your relationship with these!


----------



## Yogi_bear

ConanHub said:


> Always good to have a few differing perspectives.
> 
> She was coming from a different place but it's interesting to read about her experience.


Definitely nice to hear different perspectives but I kinda cringed when she said “I hope OP does get them so she can feel empowered” I think it’s great for others to do so if that is the right thing for them, however, I don’t think it’s the ONLY way for a woman with a smaller chest to feel confident and good in her body. My goal also isn’t to make my partner (whomever that is) jealous and worried all the time that I will leave him Cos I’m so hot. It’s to actually have a healthy relationship where everyone feels happy and secure. If that’s possible _shrug_


----------



## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh, yes. Forgot about that. Here, fix your relationship with these!


Yeah, not the best advice I’ve been given but I take it with a grain of salt lol worked for her, sorta lol


----------



## Casual Observer

Yogi_bear said:


> Yeah, not the best advice I’ve been given but I take it with a grain of salt lol worked for her, sorta lol


If you're on the fence, I'd suggest not having them done, because you don't want them tainted by issues with your relationship.

On the other hand, if you get to the point where you're absolutely going to split, and you want to be just a tiny bit nasty, then sure, let your husband think he talked you into it, spare no expense (make sure he pays for it), and then file afterward. Maybe have some sexy lingerie delivered just prior.


----------



## Talker67

DownByTheRiver said:


> The couple of women I've known who had them then had to live with back aches for the rest of their lives.


this is thinking a little out of the box, but they make exoskeletons now for workers in factories to be able to pick up enormous loads without hurting their backs. they are made of carbon fiber (very light) and have battery assisted motors. it is all very tiny, straps to your back, and probably could be concealed under a blouse.

i was wondering if such an exoskeleton would cancel the bending moment of the heavy front side?

it might be the sort of thing you wear in the privacy of your own home to keep your spine from getting messed up. 

here is one for if you need to wear a lead shield apron 






shieldX | suitx







www.suitx.com


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Talker67 said:


> this is thinking a little out of the box, but they make exoskeletons now for workers in factories to be able to pick up enormous loads without hurting their backs. they are made of carbon fiber (very light) and have battery assisted motors. it is all very tiny, straps to your back, and probably could be concealed under a blouse.
> 
> i was wondering if such an exoskeleton would cancel the bending moment of the heavy front side?
> 
> it might be the sort of thing you wear in the privacy of your own home to keep your spine from getting messed up.
> 
> here is one for if you need to wear a lead shield apron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shieldX | suitx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.suitx.com


Exoskeletons for front-loaded women? Hmm. That’s a pretty long way out of the box for me. I think if it was that bad I might be in support of breast reduction surgery for my lady.

But to your point, I’ve worked in a factory before and it’s common to have back support devices of various types for peeps who bend or lift a lot.


----------



## Diana7

Yogi_bear said:


> Definitely nice to hear different perspectives but I kinda cringed when she said “I hope OP does get them so she can feel empowered” I think it’s great for others to do so if that is the right thing for them, however, I don’t think it’s the ONLY way for a woman with a smaller chest to feel confident and good in her body. My goal also isn’t to make my partner (whomever that is) jealous and worried all the time that I will leave him Cos I’m so hot. It’s to actually have a healthy relationship where everyone feels happy and secure. If that’s possible _shrug_


I actually hate all this 'empowered' nonsense but if you have get a boob job to feel 'empowered' then something is wrong. Accepting yourself as you are is far more 'empowering' surely? 

I love it when people like you stand up against all this cosmetic surgery that is sadly becoming so common now.
I would never get cosmetic surgery. If a guy I was with suggested it he wouldn't be the man for me.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Yogi_bear said:


> Wouldn’t it be beautiful to have that same “I don’t give a ****” attitude and NOT have to change my body with major surgery to do so though? That’s what I hope for in my daughter. I will never get implants for many reasons. I’m not the problem. Certain Men and society are.


Now you are making a logical statement my good lady. I, as a man, find your husbands actions to be unacceptable across the board. Why do you stay with him? From your posts he sounds like he has zero class and zero respect for you.

i am of the school of thought that plastic surgery should only be for medical reasons or for accident related surgery. I am not a fan of surgically enhanced breast.


----------



## AVR1962

Have you done any research on breast implants? We want to hope all will turn out well but it does not for all women. I have a lady friend who does not want to be seen with her bra off as now one of her nipples points down. These things develop leaks and all kinds of issues. If it is something you want be careful. If this is something your husband wants, my response is "NO!" I can see how you might feel unsettled learning your husband paid for lap dances at a strip club however, have you seen the women in some of these strip clubs? And by the way, men are not supposed to touch the women, just so you know. I am assuming your husband was drinking and his judgement was impaired, exciting at the time for sure. Normally though, is he seeking you or is he seeking strip clubs and porn? Something to think about. If this man is all about other women, leave his sorry self and move on with a life you want for yourself, one in which someone has the opportunity to love and support you. You do not have to live like this.
Background: 24 year marriage to a man who was all about porn, strip clubs and fantasizing & obsessing over other women. It does not stop, you do not win. They are addicted just like a person is addicted to drugs. You will always wonder what is wrong with you. Fast forward: been with a man for 2 1/2 years that communicates well, we talk about our sex life together and all those strip clubs, porn, obsession do not exist. He wants me and he makes that known. He has been a huge support in all of my efforts. He has been a very positive influence in my life.


----------



## Yogi_bear

Diana7 said:


> I actually hate all this 'empowered' nonsense but if you have get a boob job to feel 'empowered' then something is wrong. Accepting yourself as you are is far more 'empowering' surely?
> 
> I love it when people like you stand up against all this cosmetic surgery that is sadly becoming so common now.
> I would never get cosmetic surgery. If a guy I was with suggested it he wouldn't be the man for me.


Thank you!!! I never was thinking of getting implants so am unsure why I’m getting comments encouraging it to help me feel better about myself or ppl saying “if you’re on the fence…” I’m not. Lol I have chosen my side. Just frustrated at what my husband said especially considering I am on the side against surgery. It makes me sad that surgery is so normalized like it’s nothing. It honestly makes me worried for my daughter, who was born with a birth defect (she doesn’t have a belly button as a result but she’s beautiful and strong and vibrant!) I love diversity and feel that should be celebrated more as beautiful rather than fitting into some screwed up norm that men decided a long time ago was the ideal of beautiful.


----------



## Yogi_bear

AVR1962 said:


> Have you done any research on breast implants? We want to hope all will turn out well but it does not for all women. I have a lady friend who does not want to be seen with her bra off as now one of her nipples points down. These things develop leaks and all kinds of issues. If it is something you want be careful. If this is something your husband wants, my response is "NO!" I can see how you might feel unsettled learning your husband paid for lap dances at a strip club however, have you seen the women in some of these strip clubs? And by the way, men are not supposed to touch the women, just so you know. I am assuming your husband was drinking and his judgement was impaired, exciting at the time for sure. Normally though, is he seeking you or is he seeking strip clubs and porn? Something to think about. If this man is all about other women, leave his sorry self and move on with a life you want for yourself, one in which someone has the opportunity to love and support you. You do not have to live like this.
> Background: 24 year marriage to a man who was all about porn, strip clubs and fantasizing & obsessing over other women. It does not stop, you do not win. They are addicted just like a person is addicted to drugs. You will always wonder what is wrong with you. Fast forward: been with a man for 2 1/2 years that communicates well, we talk about our sex life together and all those strip clubs, porn, obsession do not exist. He wants me and he makes that known. He has been a huge support in all of my efforts. He has been a very positive influence in my life.


I haven’t researched implants because I don’t want them lol not sure why ppl are getting confused with this one.
The club my husband went to, the girls looked very nice actually. It was spearmint rhino in Vegas and I think it’s supposed to be one of the best? Not sure, just what I’ve heard and read- he also said the girls put his hands there otherwise he wouldn’t have touched as he thought no touching was allowed, I guess unless the girls put your hands there? Doesn’t change the fact it’s wrong in my eyes. I did research that and did confirm touching happens there. I am an attractive woman but in more of a cute way and less sexy? Lol I can’t hold a candle next to those ladies but again I’m sure most of them are manufactured as well (not all). It’s the only time my husband has gone to. Strip clib since we’ve been married and he said he will never do it again. It just always sticks with me because before he left I asked him not to go (it was a work trip so he went with work mates and was supposed to go for conferences etc). Not sure about the porn. It’s so easy to access these days he can easily do it on his phone and I’d never know. My issue I guess is more that he said I didn’t fully develop to his friend and that I’d like implants. That’s not true at all. Say he had a small penis, which sadly he doesn’t, but if he did and I told a friend that he didn’t fully grow and now I’m looking for ways to make it bigger. I think he’s be upset with that.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Yogi_bear said:


> I haven’t researched implants because I don’t want them lol it sure why ppl are getting confused with this one.
> The club my husband went to, the girls looked very nice actually. It was spearmint rhino in Vegas and I think it’s supposed to be one of the best? Not sure, just what I’ve heard and read- I did research that and did confirm touching happens there. I am an attractive woman but in more of a cute way and less sexy? Lol I can’t hold a candle next to those ladies but again I’m sure most of them are manufactured as well (not all). It’s the only time my husband has gone to. Strip clib since we’ve been married and he said he will never do it again. It just always sticks with me because before he left I asked him not to go (it was a work trip so he went with work mates and was supposed to go for conferences etc). Not sure about the porn. It’s so easy to access these days he can easily do it on his phone and I’d never know. My issue I guess is more that he said I didn’t fully develop to his friend and that I’d like implants. That’s not true at all. Say he had a small penis, which sadly he doesn’t, but if he did and I told a friend that he didn’t fully grow and now I’m looking for ways to make it bigger. I think he’s be upset with that.


Honestly, it doesn’t sound like if you got the implants that he’s stop with the other women. This is a problem with him, not with you.


----------



## Openminded

For decades I have resisted a reduction because I could never convince myself it was worth the risk. We all make choices but they should be our decisions and not someone else’s.


----------



## Yogi_bear

TexasMom1216 said:


> Honestly, it doesn’t sound like if you got the implants that he’s stop with the other women. This is a problem with him, not with you.


Absolutely agree. His problem. Definitely never want implants. I’ll say it loud for those in the back I DONT WANT IMPLANTS! 😆


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> I haven’t researched implants because I don’t want them lol it sure why ppl are getting confused with this one.
> The club my husband went to, the girls looked very nice actually. It was spearmint rhino in Vegas and I think it’s supposed to be one of the best? Not sure, just what I’ve heard and read- I did research that and did confirm touching happens there. I am an attractive woman but in more of a cute way and less sexy? Lol I can’t hold a candle next to those ladies but again I’m sure most of them are manufactured as well (not all). It’s the only time my husband has gone to. Strip clib since we’ve been married and he said he will never do it again. It just always sticks with me because before he left I asked him not to go (it was a work trip so he went with work mates and was supposed to go for conferences etc). Not sure about the porn. It’s so easy to access these days he can easily do it on his phone and I’d never know. My issue I guess is more that he said I didn’t fully develop to his friend and that I’d like implants. That’s not true at all. Say he had a small penis, which sadly he doesn’t, but if he did and I told a friend that he didn’t fully grow and now I’m looking for ways to make it bigger. I think he’s be upset with that.


Just in this comment hubby violated your trust 3 times, violated your privacy by sharing intimate details, lied and body shamed you all while trying to manipulate you.

So other than that, how are things with hubby today?
Is the basement getting chilly?
Is he repenting and trying make things right?


----------



## TexasMom1216

Yogi_bear said:


> Absolutely agree. His problem. Definitely never want implants. I’ll say it loud for those in the back I DONT WANT IMPLANTS! 😆


I have implants. But, I was single when I got them and in my late 20s. I got them for myself, for my own reasons. You should NEVER make a change like that for someone else. I’m sorry you were told he was right to make those demands. He wasn’t, he isn’t, and frankly he sounds like a selfish user. I’d run for the hills; I haven’t read the whole thread, I hope kids aren’t involved and if not, RUN before there are. He won’t change, this will just get worse.


----------



## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Just in this comment hubby violated your trust 3 times, violated your privacy by sharing intimate details, lied and body shamed you all while trying to manipulate you.
> 
> So other than that, how are things with hubby today?
> Is the basement getting chilly?
> Is he repenting and trying make things right?


I absolutely agree. Not sure how he repents for that? He’s messaged his friend to correct what he said. He’s sucking up majorly to me and respecting my wish to be given space. He cleaned the entire house yesterday, waiting on me for everything which is nice but again, still doesn’t undo what he said and did in the past. He’s said it’s all him and he needs to change and will (not sure I believe that one but this is the first time he has acknowledged that the strip club incident was cheating and it was never his intention). He’s doing all the laundry, took the kids out for a bit yesterday so I could have some “me” time, which I NEVER get. He’s reading my book “5 love languages” front to cover finally but I also don’t feel like that’s enough and we still need counselling and he agrees but will see if he actually goes. His parents told me they were very disappointed and sad to hear everything I told them and they would talk to him. They tried phoning him last night and he ignored their call which pissed me off because he has a history of avoiding things that make him uncomfortable. I told him this is part of facing the music and taking responsibility for his actions. Apparently he didn’t sleep all night feeling sick about things how he’s treated me etc and plans to call his parents today but again, we will see. These issues aside, he is a decent man and father. My friends and family always tell me how “lucky” I am to have him because he is such an active participant in our kids lives and takes good care of me. However, they don’t know about these other incidents which obviously have upset even his parents. My husband says he is fully aware that I could make it on my own without him (honestly financially I couldn’t do it because cost of living here is stupid high, most expensive place in North America to live and it’s only getting worse. Why stay here? Only place I have any support and with a special needs kid support is a lifeline!!) however if I were in a fully abusive relationship, it wouldn’t be a deterrent to leaving. In his eyes, he is trying to make things right.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> I absolutely agree. Not sure how he repents for that? He’s messaged his friend to correct what he said. He’s sucking up majorly to me and respecting my wish to be given space. He cleaned the entire house yesterday, waiting on me for everything which is nice but again, still doesn’t undo what he said and did in the past. He’s said it’s all him and he needs to change and will (not sure I believe that one but this is the first time he has acknowledged that the strip club incident was cheating and it was never his intention). He’s doing all the laundry, took the kids out for a bit yesterday so I could have some “me” time, which I NEVER get. He’s reading my book “5 love languages” front to cover finally but I also don’t feel like that’s enough and we still need counselling and he agrees but will see if he actually goes. His parents told me they were very disappointed and sad to hear everything I told them and they would talk to him. They tried phoning him last night and he ignored their call which pissed me off because he has a history of avoiding things that make him uncomfortable. I told him this is part of facing the music and taking responsibility for his actions. Apparently he didn’t sleep all night feeling sick about things how he’s treated me etc and plans to call his parents today but again, we will see. These issues aside, he is a decent man and father. My friends and family always tell me how “lucky” I am to have him because he is such an active participant in our kids lives and takes good care of me. However, they don’t know about these other incidents which obviously have upset even his parents. My husband says he is fully aware that I could make it on my own without him (honestly financially I couldn’t do it because cost of living here is stupid high, most expensive place in North America to live and it’s only getting worse. Why stay here? Only place I have any support and with a special needs kid support is a lifeline!!) however if I were in a fully abusive relationship, it wouldn’t be a deterrent to leaving. In his eyes, he is trying to make things right.


Well that's good news, at least he recognized he f'ed up and is trying to make it right.

My opinion at this point:
- Don't trust his words, watch the actions. It will stay that way for a while, it takes time to rebuild your trust.
- Make him face his parents. He has to own his ***
- Counseling is a MUST. He never should have hurt you and put your marriage in jeopardy like this. He needs a professional to figure that out make sure it doesn't happen again.

Best of luck to you OP, I'm sorry you had to go through this but super-glad you're on a better track.
Plus you've got a whole crowd of people (TAM) cheering you on.


----------



## Cynthia

It often takes confrontation and anger at bad behavior before someone finally recognizes and admits that they are the problem. It's good that you are holding your husband's feet to the fire. You have set a new boundary. Keep it steady and never give back that ground. I'm not saying to stay angry. I'm saying that once you set a boundary, do not let it slide. This is the new normal. That includes your husband taking the responsibility for the kids and for you to be able to have time to yourself, as does he. Marriage is supposed to be where both parties get their needs met by working together. Both of you need to give each other a break. His selfish behavior has damaged your relationship and he should make amends, but it doesn't stop there. In order to have a healthy relationship, he needs to step up permanently. It sounds like you've made that clear to him.


----------



## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Well that's good news, at least he recognized he f'ed up and is trying to make it right.
> 
> My opinion at this point:
> 
> Don't trust his words, watch the actions. It will stay that way for a while, it takes time to rebuild your trust.
> Make him face his parents. He has to own his ***
> Counseling is a MUST. He never should have hurt you and put your marriage in jeopardy like this. He needs a professional to figure that out make sure it doesn't happen again.
> 
> Best of luck to you OP, I'm sorry you had to go through this but super-glad you're on a better track.
> Plus you've got a whole crowd of people (TAM) cheering you on.


Thank you! I wanted a place of smart, more rational ppl to chat with about this that didn’t have a bias (knew my husband or I as that might skew their opinion of the situation) some boards I’ve seen regarding these issues seem, different. Such as a lot don’t consider the fondling at a strip club cheating and I’ve read some pretty damaging recommendations in those groups. I feel this was a good place to post to get some sound advice and opinions. So I appreciate everyone’s input and conversation about the matter! 

He definitely acknowledged he messed up and he said he saw it in my eyes that I was serious and would leave him this time unless things changed. I’m fairly certain he is undiagnosed ADHD (not an excuse) so often talks/acts without thinking. Based on that alone I’ve told him he needs some professional help. Now it’s involved our marriage and it’s not a suggestion anymore but a stipulation. We have a long way to go to see if this can work out. I’m not letting him off the hook easily. There’s work that needs to be put in here. We’ve only been married 9 years (together 12) and if we’re gonna make it the rest of the way, things have to change. He is phoning his parents this afternoon (time difference, has to wait til they’re awake now) but he wants me to be there with him for the conversation. Part of me thinks this is good because he can’t weasel his way out of what happened (change the narrative to make him look better) but I also don’t want him to lean on me to get through it. He is NOT looking forward to speaking to them about this issue. Either way it is happening.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

I'm glad his parents are speaking up. He has to realize his little buddies aren't the best barometer of what is good and normal and acceptable, so the more on your side, the merrier. Yes, he must go to counseling. No, ADHD is no excuse for a lap dance and lying to a friend about you and your boobs, none at all. I mean, if he doesn't know right from wrong, then you do have a problem on your hands, but because he snuck around on both these things, he knew they were wrong. So the insanity plea doesn't work in this case. Hopefully counseling will make him realize not just that he's in trouble (which is how he's playing it right now hoping to smooth things over) but maybe give him a glimmer of what it's like to have empathy for you and not just be narcissistic and think of himself and that his desires trump everything or even anything else, because they shouldn't.

Realistically, he can't make this right. That was the real him doing what the real him has it in him to do. Nothing will change that, not even therapy. So it will eventually come down to deciding if he's enough or not.


----------



## Openminded

Keep in mind that temporary change is always the easy part. Permanent change is another story. It takes time and energy and effort for that and there’s a high failure rate. I was married to a serial cheater and I stayed decades beyond when I should have gotten out. I believed in marriage and I believed all his promises to change. More fool me. Be careful not to let your situation get to that point because it’s easy to do. The longer you’re married the more difficult it is to get out. I wish you the best.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Openminded is right. Permanent change is rare. He is who he is. You've kicked up about the lap dance before, and probably all that did was make him hide stuff more. He's still got some ideas that don't fit into marriage in his head that he needs to forget about and get serious about his family. I'm happy to hear he's been a good dad, but remember that he's also their role model, and kids don't miss anything. If he has a weird boundary about other women, they'll pick up on it, or boobs or is self-serving, they know it and either decide that's fine or rebel against it, if you're lucky.


----------



## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> Openminded is right. Permanent change is rare. He is who he is. You've kicked up about the lap dance before, and probably all that did was make him hide stuff more. He's still got some ideas that don't fit into marriage in his head that he needs to forget about and get serious about his family. I'm happy to hear he's been a good dad, but remember that he's also their role model, and kids don't miss anything. If he has a weird boundary about other women, they'll pick up on it, or boobs or is self-serving, they know it and either decide that's fine or rebel against it, if you're lucky.





TexasMom1216 said:


> I have implants. But, I was single when I got them and in my late 20s. I got them for myself, for my own reasons. You should NEVER make a change like that for someone else. I’m sorry you were told he was right to make those demands. He wasn’t, he isn’t, and frankly he sounds like a selfish user. I’d run for the hills; I haven’t read the whole thread, I hope kids aren’t involved and if not, RUN before there are. He won’t change, this will just get worse.


Do I wish my boobs were bigger and could fill a swimsuit better? Absolutely! Do I wish that regular bra companies could make proper bras for A cup women? Definitely! Am I willing to risk surgery to make that happen? Nope. Again for my own reasons and also I’m a bit of a rebel and feel like getting them for those reasons are giving into “societal expectations” even bra companies can’t make bras properly for women who aren’t a B/C cup or more. At the end of the day we make pros and cons liars and decide which is


DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm glad his parents are speaking up. He has to realize his little buddies aren't the best barometer of what is good and normal and acceptable, so the more on your side, the merrier. Yes, he must go to counseling. No, ADHD is no excuse for a lap dance and lying to a friend about you and your boobs, none at all. I mean, if he doesn't know right from wrong, then you do have a problem on your hands, but because he snuck around on both these things, he knew they were wrong. So the insanity plea doesn't work in this case. Hopefully counseling will make him realize not just that he's in trouble (which is how he's playing it right now hoping to smooth things over) but maybe give him a glimmer of what it's like to have empathy for you and not just be narcissistic and think of himself and that his desires trump everything or even anything else, because they shouldn't.
> 
> Realistically, he can't make this right. That was the real him doing what the real him has it in him to do. Nothing will change that, not even therapy. So it will eventually come down to deciding if he's enough or not.


so his parents face timed him. I sent the kids away so they could talk privately but I was around as my husband wanted me to hear things so there was transparency. I’m SO disappointed in the convo. They essentially were like “we love you guys and your family means so much to us so you need to talk and work this out.” Then they said their solution was for my husband to fly to Australia for 3-4 weeks as “then it will give us a chance to miss each other because we’re always together and need a break” like…what? Yeah that’s what the problem is. I just need to miss him or he needs to miss me to realize he’s been an ass. Also, why does he get a break without the kids with an Aussie vacation for one month? I told him he can go but that will prob push me in thebother direction. One month without him while I balance full time work with 3 little kids while he enjoys a stress free vacation? who are we punishing? Him or me? His mum said “I miss you and your brother and want us to be together again” his mother said “awww sweetly you’re just like dad” I looked at my husband and was like omg they’re excusing such terrible behaviour. They went on about how life is short and we need to just talk about things. This was so invalidating for me. However, it also confirms where he got this thinking from. He says he doesn’t want to be like his dad or continue how he’s been and wants to change. I guess we will see. This conversation with his parents was pointless.


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## TexasMom1216

I think you have your answer. I’d wait til he’s down there and tell him not to come back. Pack his stuff, ship it to Australia and file for divorce. You’re on your own with your kids, clearly. I’m so sorry.


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## DownByTheRiver

Yogi_bear said:


> Do I wish my boobs were bigger and could fill a swimsuit better? Absolutely! Do I wish that regular bra companies could make proper bras for A cup women? Definitely! Am I willing to risk surgery to make that happen? Nope. Again for my own reasons and also I’m a bit of a rebel and feel like getting them for those reasons are giving into “societal expectations” even bra companies can’t make bras properly for women who aren’t a B/C cup or more. At the end of the day we make pros and cons liars and decide which is
> 
> so his parents face timed him. I sent the kids away so they could talk privately but I was around as my husband wanted me to hear things so there was transparency. I’m SO disappointed in the convo. They essentially were like “we love you guys and your family means so much to us so you need to talk and work this out.” Then they said their solution was for my husband to fly to Australia for 3-4 weeks as “then it will give us a chance to miss each other because we’re always together and need a break” like…what? Yeah that’s what the problem is. I just need to miss him or he needs to miss me to realize he’s been an ass. Also, why does he get a break without the kids with an Aussie vacation for one month? I told him he can go but that will prob push me in thebother direction. One month without him while I balance full time work with 3 little kids while he enjoys a stress free vacation? who are we punishing? Him or me? His mum said “I miss you and your brother and want us to be together again” his mother said “awww sweetly you’re just like dad” I looked at my husband and was like omg they’re excusing such terrible behaviour. They went on about how life is short and we need to just talk about things. This was so invalidating for me. However, it also confirms where he got this thinking from. He says he doesn’t want to be like his dad or continue how he’s been and wants to change. I guess we will see. This conversation with his parents was pointless.


Oh I seriously doubt if he goes. Doesn't he have a job?


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## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> Do I wish my boobs were bigger and could fill a swimsuit better? Absolutely! Do I wish that regular bra companies could make proper bras for A cup women? Definitely! Am I willing to risk surgery to make that happen? Nope. Again for my own reasons and also I’m a bit of a rebel and feel like getting them for those reasons are giving into “societal expectations” even bra companies can’t make bras properly for women who aren’t a B/C cup or more. At the end of the day we make pros and cons liars and decide which is
> 
> so his parents face timed him. I sent the kids away so they could talk privately but I was around as my husband wanted me to hear things so there was transparency. I’m SO disappointed in the convo. They essentially were like “we love you guys and your family means so much to us so you need to talk and work this out.” Then they said their solution was for my husband to fly to Australia for 3-4 weeks as “then it will give us a chance to miss each other because we’re always together and need a break” like…what? Yeah that’s what the problem is. I just need to miss him or he needs to miss me to realize he’s been an ass. Also, why does he get a break without the kids with an Aussie vacation for one month? I told him he can go but that will prob push me in thebother direction. One month without him while I balance full time work with 3 little kids while he enjoys a stress free vacation? who are we punishing? Him or me? His mum said “I miss you and your brother and want us to be together again” his mother said “awww sweetly you’re just like dad” I looked at my husband and was like omg they’re excusing such terrible behaviour. They went on about how life is short and we need to just talk about things. This was so invalidating for me. However, it also confirms where he got this thinking from. He says he doesn’t want to be like his dad or continue how he’s been and wants to change. I guess we will see. This conversation with his parents was pointless.


Pleeeeease tell me he stood up for you in that call when the parents tried to minimize everything!

I think you’re right, if he goes that will only push you farther away. I hope that puts fear in his soul but I didn’t hear you say that


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## DownByTheRiver

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Pleeeeease tell me he stood up for you in that call when the parents tried to minimize everything!
> 
> I think you’re right, if he goes that will only push you farther away. I hope that puts fear in his soul but I didn’t hear you say that


Well she needs for him to stay there and get to the bottom of all this before she would be able to make any big decisions. Surely he has a job that would prevent him from leaving for a month, but if he really thinks running from it is the right thing to do for his marriage then I'm afraid what we have is a man that is dead wrong for at least the third time.


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## Yogi_bear

TexasMom1216 said:


> I think you have your answer. I’d wait til he’s down there and tell him not to come back. Pack his stuff, ship it to Australia and file for divorce. You’re on your own with your kids, clearly. I’m so sorry.


He doesn’t want to go. My frustration was with his parents and how they minimized the behaviours. He said if anything he wants to go on a family vacation and spend time with us, not away from us. He won’t go to Australia without me. I’m frustrated his parents thought that was the solution 🙄


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## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh I seriously doubt if he goes. Doesn't he have a job?


He does have a job. We both work full time and we earn the same amount of money.


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## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well she needs for him to stay there and get to the bottom of all this before she would be able to make any big decisions. Surely he has a job that would prevent him from leaving for a month, but if he really thinks running from it is the right thing to do for his marriage then I'm afraid what we have is a man that is dead wrong for at least the third time.


He told his parents that he was in the wrong and is going to do everything to rectify what he has done. He told his mum that while he may have been like his dad in the past he is working to change that because he doesn’t want to ruin his marriage. His mum took offence to that because she thinks they have a great marriage. He doesn’t want to go to Australia without me and the kids and his parents won’t pay for us all so he’s not going. I was just frustrated that was their solution to the problem. Honestly, my husband said this is what he expected from them because they avoided any difficult conversations growing up and he learned nothing important from them. He knows if he left he wouldn’t be coming back, not as my husband anyway. I don’t think he’s leaving my side ever to be honest. I’ve never seen him so scared of losing his family and me.


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## DownByTheRiver

Well, hopefully this pulls his head out of the clouds. At least he's gone from trying to fix you to trying to fix the marriage. I just hope he has it in him.


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## Yogi_bear

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, hopefully this pulls his head out of the clouds. At least he's gone from trying to fix you to trying to fix the marriage. I just hope he has it in him.


Time will tell I guess.


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## In Absentia

Yogi_bear said:


> Time will tell I guess.


What did his dad do?


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## TexasMom1216

Yogi_bear said:


> He doesn’t want to go. My frustration was with his parents and how they minimized the behaviours. He said if anything he wants to go on a family vacation and spend time with us, not away from us. He won’t go to Australia without me. I’m frustrated his parents thought that was the solution 🙄


Oh I see. Well that is MUCH better, I’m glad to hear that. I was pretty mad at him when I thought he wanted to go. 😡😉😜


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## BeyondRepair007

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh I see. Well that is MUCH better, I’m glad to hear that. I was pretty mad at him when I thought he wanted to go. 😡😉😜


After this update it seems to me like he's really finding the right footing and making better choices.
It's good to me that he's not leaving and even better that he's not aligning with his parents and against OP. That would really tick me off.


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## Yogi_bear

In Absentia said:


> What did his dad do?


No idea specifically. I asked my husband if he thinks his dad did similar things and that’s what his mum meant by “you’re just like your dad?” He said he didn’t think so. I think she meant that my husband is bad at communication and dealing with emotional issues like his dad. I mean honestly listening to the 3 of them have a conversation was painful. A lot of “yeah, you know, it’s not good. Just talk and yeah, mmm” 🤦‍♀️ I couldn’t stand listening to it anymore.


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## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> After this update it seems to me like he's really finding the right footing and making better choices.
> It's good to me that he's not leaving and even better that he's not aligning with his parents and against OP. That would really tick me off.


Me too. However I DO kinda wish that he would have told his parents openly that he was wrong and needs to change and just started those convos because his parents are crap at talking about anything. It was a painful conversation to hear. In the end I said “why did I have to ask to kids to leave for that? There was nothing sensitive said in that conversation!” They are notorious for sweeping things under the rug and that’s been my inside joke with my husband since we first got together. They don’t deal with any issue head on. I thought this would be different but my husband wasn’t surprised. He thinks they’re “fruit loops” and wishes they spoke to him more about relationships and these kinds of things growing up. He feels he wouldn’t have made as many stupid mistakes along the way. Which is why I take a different approach with our kids, but hope he will also step up to change that cycle.


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## Yogi_bear

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh I see. Well that is MUCH better, I’m glad to hear that. I was pretty mad at him when I thought he wanted to go. 😡😉😜


He knows if he went that would be the nail in our relationship coffin lol he left me once with the kids at home (to get the lap dances in Vegas etc) and that started this whole thing. At least he learns a bit lol


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## Casual Observer

Yogi_bear said:


> Me too. However I DO kinda wish that he would have told his parents openly that he was wrong and needs to change and just started those convos because his parents are crap at talking about anything. It was a painful conversation to hear. In the end I said “why did I have to ask to kids to leave for that? There was nothing sensitive said in that conversation!” They are notorious for sweeping things under the rug and that’s been my inside joke with my husband since we first got together. They don’t deal with any issue head on. I thought this would be different but my husband wasn’t surprised. He thinks they’re “fruit loops” and wishes they spoke to him more about relationships and these kinds of things growing up. He feels he wouldn’t have made as many stupid mistakes along the way. Which is why I take a different approach with our kids, but hope he will also step up to change that cycle.


If your husband is willing to allow you to help teach him what a healthy relationship should be, you're in a pretty darned good place. It's beginning to sound like you're finally having conversations you should have had ages ago. I would suggest, while he's in this "teachable" place, you set aside some time with him, away from the kids, to talk about what a good marriage looks like. And where you're are, and where you're not. Be as open to his feelings (about what is missing) as he should be about yours.

And maybe think about the fact that it's normal for him not to want to throw his parents completely under the bus. Try and allow him to separate the fact that he loves his parents from the wrong things they did and still do. In other words, don't waste time wishing he dealt with his parents differently. Instead, praise him for recognizing what hasn't been right and that he's forging his own path.


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## BeyondRepair007

Casual Observer said:


> And maybe think about the fact that it's normal for him not to want to throw his parents completely under the bus. Try and allow him to separate the fact that he loves his parents from the wrong things they did and still do. In other words, don't waste time wishing he dealt with his parents differently. Instead, praise him for recognizing what hasn't been right and that he's forging his own path.


@Yogi_bear , @Casual Observer made really great points.
I especially want to mention this last part.

My 2 cents:
His parent are his parents and I would encourage you to leave that alone. Don't get upset, try to make him respond a certain way, or take certain stands with them as long as they aren't influencing him negatively. He has to maintain that relationship while also not hurting you and sometimes that won't be easy. Don't give him a pass on behavior, but you have to understand your zone of control better. The relationship with his parents are not in it.

Family stuff is complicated you shouldn't make things worse by trying to force a certain position with them or even change their behavior. As long as he maintains integrity (doesn't speak out of both sides of his mouth by agreeing with them and then do something else) then I'd leave that relationship alone and just focus on him.


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## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> @Yogi_bear , @Casual Observer made really great points.
> I especially want to mention this last part.
> 
> My 2 cents:
> His parent are his parents and I would encourage you to leave that alone. Don't get upset, try to make him respond a certain way, or take certain stands with them as long as they aren't influencing him negatively. He has to maintain that relationship while also not hurting you and sometimes that won't be easy. Don't give him a pass on behavior, but you have to understand your zone of control better. The relationship with his parents are not in it.
> 
> Family stuff is complicated you shouldn't make things worse by trying to force a certain position with them or even change their behavior. As long as he maintains integrity (doesn't speak out of both sides of his mouth by agreeing with them and then do something else) then I'd leave that relationship alone and just focus on him.


Fair enough. Makes sense.
His parents were supposed to come here this Christmas but seem they want my husband to go to them. This disappoints me as they haven’t met their granddaughter yet and she’s 4. Can’t change them though. I will focus on what I can control. Thanks for all the input. Really helped.


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## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> Fair enough. Makes sense.
> His parents were supposed to come here this Christmas but seem they want my husband to go to them. This disappoints me as they haven’t met their granddaughter yet and she’s 4. Can’t change them though. I will focus on what I can control. Thanks for all the input. Really helped.


His parents seem wonderful.
I have grandkids....just try stopping me from seeing them the _day_ they were born. let alone 4 years.
wonderful people those GP.

But, yes, you can wear yourself out trying to change a rock into a carrot.
Let the rock be a rock and manage around it (after you've sufficiently yelled at the rock that is  )


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## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> His parents seem wonderful.
> I have grandkids....just try stopping me from seeing them the _day_ they were born. let alone 4 years.
> wonderful people those GP.
> 
> But, yes, you can wear yourself out trying to change a rock into a carrot.
> Let the rock be a rock and manage around it (after you've sufficiently yelled at the rock that is  )


I can’t imagine not seeing my grandkids either. Honestly his parents and I have never seen eye to eye. I just don’t relate to them.


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## BeyondRepair007

@Yogi_bear just checking in. How are things? Hopefully everything (marriage-wise) is getting back on track and all the boobjob nonsense is behind you? Hubby is walking the straight and narrow as they say? Washing your feet and running your bath for you?


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## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> @Yogi_bear just checking in. How are things? Hopefully everything (marriage-wise) is getting back on track and all the boobjob nonsense is behind you? Hubby is walking the straight and narrow as they say? Washing your feet and running your bath for you?


Yeah he’s def changing. It’s a very big change across the board. I’m still skeptical it will stick but he swears it will. Time will tell. I still have a lot of hurt and resentment toward him (from 12 yrs of things adding up not just the two things mentioned here) so I think counselling even just for me will be beneficial.


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## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> Yeah he’s def changing. It’s a very big change across the board. I’m still skeptical it will stick but he swears it will. Time will tell. I still have a lot of hurt and resentment toward him (from 12 yrs of things adding up not just the two things mentioned here) so I think counselling even just for me will be beneficial.


Thanks for the update. I’m glad it’s going in the right direction.

About a year ago I went through a thing with my wife where we both needed to make changes. Even had an MC stamp of approval.

It failed miserably (and explosively).

We were both making changes to our behavior but they were superficial changes and we hadn’t yet addressed the root cause. I suspected it would fail when we tired of the extra work without the extra motivation of a changed heart.

Anyway, we fixed it and it’s all good now.

Point is I can relate to your “concern” and just hope that the root cause of his bad behavior is also being properly addressed. Fake it till you make it can work…but it’s tough. Tackling the root cause will make all the other changes seem natural.

Best of luck OP. I’m super-glad you’re in a better place.


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## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Thanks for the update. I’m glad it’s going in the right direction.
> 
> About a year ago I went through a thing with my wife where we both needed to make changes. Even had an MC stamp of approval.
> 
> It failed miserably (and explosively).
> 
> We were both making changes to our behavior but they were superficial changes and we hadn’t yet addressed the root cause. I suspected it would fail when we tired of the extra work without the extra motivation of a changed heart.
> 
> Anyway, we fixed it and it’s all good now.
> 
> Point is I can relate to your “concern” and just hope that the root cause of his bad behavior is also being properly addressed. Fake it till you make it can work…but it’s tough. Tackling the root cause will make all the other changes seem natural.
> 
> Best of luck OP. I’m super-glad you’re in a better place.


What helped in your situation?
I’m not sure what would get to the root cause of my husbands issues when it’s just been his world view based on how he was raised and the work environment he has been in (very toxic toward women).
He has a history of getting on bandwagons and trying to make changes (with diet, exercise, even beer making lol) and not seeing them through. It will take a while of these sustained changes for me to come around I think.


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## BeyondRepair007

Yogi_bear said:


> What helped in your situation?
> I’m not sure what would get to the root cause of my husbands issues when it’s just been his world view based on how he was raised and the work environment he has been in (very toxic toward women).
> He has a history of getting on bandwagons and trying to make changes (with diet, exercise, even beer making lol) and not seeing them through. It will take a while of these sustained changes for me to come around I think.


In my case, I was 'unsettled' with the way things were going so I was watchful and in constant analysis mode.
I was already thinking toward the real root cause and was ready to act when the superficial changes failed. Sort of a self-diagnosis that I largely credit to reading on TAM.

I gave the whole "wrong" thing a chance because MC was onboard and hey, they should know this stuff. But once things fell apart I took over and made the changes in myself and invited wife to join based on my observations. She did and it and it worked wonderfully.

That's one important point I should mention, when there's 'misalignment' as I call it in a marriage, it's rarely one-sided.
Both partners have some contribution to the less-than-perfect environment so both partners need to consider what the impact of that is and possibly adjust.
(not being accusatory here, just saying what I think)

Good counseling is the real right answer hereto get to the root cause and adjust for it. Or post on TAM I suppose 

I hope you find something useful in that drivel.


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## Cynthia

I agree with @BeyondRepair007, that you have to get to the root of the problem. It requires a change of heart and a change of how you think. Our behaviors come out of what we believe. Nothing is sustainable if we don't believe it. My husband and I were a couple of messed up kids when we got married. We have had to do a lot of deep introspection as well as learning about what is healthy. If you don't know that what you are doing or how you are thinking is the actual problem, you will keep thinking and doing the same things over and over. You may even try harder to do what you believe will work, in order to solve the problem, only to find that what you are doing is either the root cause of the problem or is making it worse.
An example of this is codependence. Enabling another person in their dysfunction makes things worse, but codependent people think they are sacrificing for the other and are being loving, when in fact they are not.
There is some belief that has caused your husband to think his words and actions were okay. Maybe, after you schooled him, he realizes that his thinking was messed up and he's changed it. That's what it's going to take. A new way of thinking and believing. A change of heart.


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## Yogi_bear

BeyondRepair007 said:


> In my case, I was 'unsettled' with the way things were going so I was watchful and in constant analysis mode.
> I was already thinking toward the real root cause and was ready to act when the superficial changes failed. Sort of a self-diagnosis that I largely credit to reading on TAM.
> 
> I gave the whole "wrong" thing a chance because MC was onboard and hey, they should know this stuff. But once things fell apart I took over and made the changes in myself and invited wife to join based on my observations. She did and it and it worked wonderfully.
> 
> That's one important point I should mention, when there's 'misalignment' as I call it in a marriage, it's rarely one-sided.
> Both partners have some contribution to the less-than-perfect environment so both partners need to consider what the impact of that is and possibly adjust.
> (not being accusatory here, just saying what I think)
> 
> Good counseling is the real right answer hereto get to the root cause and adjust for it. Or post on TAM I suppose
> 
> I hope you find something useful in that drivel.


Thanks for sharing your experience. I definitely agree that I also need to adjust as I know I am holding onto resentment and hurt from past things and it will be hard to move forward with that. It’s also toxic to hang onto so I am getting my own counselling to address it.
I’m sure I will post on here again, or even reading other peoples posts who may be struggling with similar issues can be helpful I feel. So much wisdom and experience here!


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