# Do I deserve my wifes affair?



## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

I recently discovered my wife of nearly 16 years and the mother of our 3 children has had a 15 month relationship –affair- with a man she met through our business. I discovered when I went to look at a joke on her phone and saw saved texts. She quickly deleted all of them.

It started with what they call innocent texts which became phone calls. They say those were innocent too although for 2 married people to talk during his work day while she was watching our children for 52 minutes does not seem innocent to me. They say within about 2 months the texts, photographs, and calls became sexual and escalated to very sexual over the next 6 months to the point where they traded sexually explicit photographs and had phone sex including mutual masterbation up to 12 times(neither is certain how many times there were).

She tells me it all happened because I did not say enough nice things to her. She wanted hear she was pretty and sexy and she just got caught up in that. For 15 months!

She has told me that my visits to strip clubs on work trips, which I told her I would not do, and a 1 time visit to an old girlfriends apartment shortly after we were married are the same as her affair. 

I did not hide the strip club trips of which there have been very few but I did tell her I would not go again and did. Very wrong on my part.

I visited the girl I had pursued for a number of years before I met my wife. I tried to date her but ended up being a long term shoulder to cry on for her though I wanted more. She had implied she felt like she let me get away and I wanted closure. It got late and I spent the night fully clothed on her couch. We hugged fully clothed in the morning and I left. My wife found out at the time and we had an argument. I gave her full disclosure and we moved on, I thought. 

Are my indiscretions/mistakes the same as an affair? I want to stay with her but it took 6 weeks and my getting solid proof for her to even admit there was sexual texts and I finally called the man and he confirmed everything I suspected and more. 

Obviously like everyone else thing are not perfect with us but 3 major arguments in 16 years must be above average.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

Don't accept it, she's blaming you to divert the blame from herself. What you did earlier may have given your wife insecurity, but she alone was responsible for what she did.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

First off, I'm not really buying the sleep over description, but even if I did, it would still be out of line.

And I'm not sure what the strip club visits entailed, but if there was any gratification of course it was cheating!

But your wife has to own her own sh!t

You two need professional help to get past this destructive life you're pursuing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks.

She told me when I first confronted her and most of the evidence was gone that I misread what I saw and that they only traded jokes. 

I tried to believe it but I knew what I saw.

She mentioned his name in conversation when we were returning from a business trip of mine last week that I was able to bring her on. The natural way it came up was the last straw. I looked up some phone records and confirmed they had been in contact starting over 15 months ago and I called him.

He confirmed it all and more. 

She and I have had 2 dicussions before I had proof and 2 since and she brought the strip club and girlfriend visit into it every time. It took until the fourth conversation to get her to call it an affair.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your actions, while maybe not the same as an affair, were both violations of intimacy. Doesn't matter who is more wrong. Neither your actions or her's were designed to strengthen the marriage. Sixteen years is a lot of investment to toss away and both of you must have something to offer each other or you wouldn't still be together. In my opinion, you both were wrong and there can be no good guys or bad guys in a marriage. There are only flawed people struggling to make something difficult work. If it works, you're both win. If it fails, you both lose and both will be to blame.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

understand you question the overnight just as wife did. It was as i decribed and she said she accepted that 15 1/2 years ago when it happened.

The strip club visits have been few and with my bosses co-workers. No gratification. STILL WRONG I KNOW! but the same as a 15 month affair? They discussed meeting as recently as last week before our trip.


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## Anonymous_Female (Apr 16, 2011)

Not only are they not "the same," they are also completely unrelated in my opinion. 

I have to admit this post made me chuckle. You know what my stbxh likens his 1.5-year affair (of a 4.5-year marriage) to? My telling another guy he's hot in front of my husband--when we'd been dating a few weeks, I was about to move overseas and at that point we had no plans to continue the relationship after I left.  They will always find something (anything!) you've done to justify their actions; it eases their guilt. I hope they're at least fooling themselves, right? ;-)


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Ignore her blame shifting , has the affair stopped and have you verified this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

she says it stopped.

There were texts up until last week before iIhad solid evidence. She told me about 2 jokes and then got very angry with me when i told her their communication made me very uncomfortable. She said in was the same as all her guy freinds she trades jokes with. Obviously is was not!!

I have been in contact with the man and told him I will notifiy his wife with evidence and file a formal complaint with his employer if there is ANY contact. He answered my questions and said he understood. 

They but call it a stupid mistake.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Your on track the only way you marriage can survive and start to recover is if there is permanent no contact. It is highly likely your wife is going to contact him or try contact him again, she does not sound remorseful and will not be inclined to accept she has done anything wrong. Her blaming you is par for the course.

I suggest you do some reading and formulate a plan of next steps , assume the worst and do not trust her . Read the book " surviving an affair" by Harley and search the posts for the 180 thread , the 180 will give you some guidance on how to behave if she carries on the affair.

As for the OM's wife , get her details and out him to her, she can then monitor him, going forward never make deals with your wife or OM and do not ever tell her what you are doing. 

Be very prepared to fight and fight hard , things like securing the finances and outing her affair to her family are part of the package as is you filing and making separation finacialy and socially unpleasant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Do some reading on the marriagebuilders.com site for tips on recovery, the journey is going to be hard especially if your wife is not accepting her role in the affair and not expressing remorse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

lol, no they are not the same. 

I would just parrot what Eli-Zor and Anonymous_Female said...

"They will always find something (anything!) you've done to justify their actions; it eases their guilt." and Ignore her blame shifting"


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Her sayign her relationship with the OM are like all her friendships--wow. So did you ask if her if that means she masturbates mutually with other men too in those friendships?

Either way you both have done wrong.

I would call his wife anyway. Don't tell him or her. She isn't owning it yet and is deflecting. That is no good.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

I have done wrong, too. For sure. Not wanting to point only to her. I had to be lacking for her to do this right.

She defends him as not forcing her even though he initiated and persued her. She has some abuse in her background(childhood) and I am certain he found her vulnerable. 

She accepted and is saying it was an affair and wrong now after I have hard evidence.

Says everything they did together she wished it was me. /?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You still do not trust her, out the OM to his wife. I will state again until she fully accepts what she has done, shows remorse your marriage will not recover. You need to set some marriage boundaries, such as: there is no more one to one communication between her and any man, you have access to all passwords , mail accounts and her phone. She will say you are controlling, no, these are some of the precautions to protect your marriage, she is the one who had the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Eli-Zor: very good advice. She will not accept the no one on one. Says she needs people contact as a stay at home mom and most of her friends are men. Almost all are friend or at least aquantincies of mine.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Heartbrkn said:


> She defends him as not forcing her even though he initiated and persued her.


This is actually a good thing, IMO. That means she isn't saying he is the reason it happened and forced her, blah blah blah. He may have pursued her but she played right into it.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Heartbrkn said:


> Eli-Zor: very good advice. She will not accept the no one on one. Says she needs people contact as a stay at home mom and most of her friends are men. Almost all are friend or at least aquantincies of mine.


She need to cultivate female friendships. I hear it is possible to do.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> This is actually a good thing, IMO. That means she isn't saying he is the reason it happened and forced her, blah blah blah. He may have pursued her but she played right into it.


Good point. She is breaking down bad right now via text.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Text to who?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What is she saying to you?


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> What is she saying to you?


Texting me; "all my fault" "i'm only responsible for my actions. this is not something I wud typically do. never thought I would do. Never thought i would be so weak and worthless"...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Why do the innocent suffer? Ask God. That WAS your question.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

heading home to her. pray for us.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

No you aren't to blame. But prepare for a very messy, uncertain situation for the foreseeable future.

Here's why:

RIghtly or wrongly, she got attached to another man and enjoyed the attention and excitement. It's like a drug. You've taken that drug away from her and now she feels bad about herself, guilty, angry at you for taking the drug away, and ashamed.

So she's shifting the blame to you as she processes. 

She won't likely be able to see if for what it really is until the withdrawl is over. Meaning she'll continue to be angry at you, blame you, and will probably try to break no contact. 

After she is through that stage, there is a chance she'll realize what a huge betrayal this is, and will make amends.

You have a few choices:

1. Leave.
2. React to your strong feelings
3. Decide to stay with open eyes. 

If you do want things to work out, you're going to have to let her work through mourning the loss of that relationship. It's going to suck for you. Really, really suck. But at the end of it, you'll come out like a prince. During that time, you'll need to enforce some boundaries. As in, "I'll stay while you get your head straight on the condition that there is no contact. If you break no contact, I'm out."

The boundaries are for you to have some personally safety.

Sorry this has happened. It sucks. It's very common. And her actions don't reflect on you.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

PS: During the withdraw she'll vacilate all over the place. I love you, I hate you, I'm responsible, you're responsible, we were never -----, we got married too young, blah, blah, blah....

Don't listen to any of it. She's a mess of emotions and can't think straight.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

14.5 years ago and one visit was wrong but long gone. Her's way above that. Her's was an affair no matter how you look at it. An EA for sure and I would doubt it's not actually a PA. Treat it like an affair in any event. NC letter to him from her sent by you registered return receipt mail so that if he doesn't give up you can pull a restraining order and have her sign it. Full transparency - phone, emails and fb or chat accounts - you do the same. Out him to his wife, period - she deserves to know and shouldn't be kept in the dark. Also check out the book "NOt Just Friends" and listen to the teleseminars on beyondaffairs.com look for the seminars tab, click it then click the teleseminars tab. She should follow the same expectations required for any wayward spouse (WS).

I'm sorry but I don't buy strip clubs as cheating. Since she has a problem with them, stopping going there is respectful and OK. But it's not cheating any more than looking at playboy or penthouse or her looking a womans nude man magazine or going to an all male strip club.


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

"She tells me it all happened because I did not say enough nice things to her."- Here we go again- TELL ME HOW YOU FEEL FOR GOD'S SAKE!


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Here is something i posted on another thread about my own requirements of my wife. It was written to a woman about her husband so replace him with her:


His past reactions are the past and what he needs to correct. Never expect yourself to forget. The goal is to find a new standard of behaviour you can be happy with. I made it very clear to my wife when she finally decided to reconcile - first and foremeost this was not going to be trying, it had be all in or never mind. Secondly, with regards to the dishonesty and the affair, I told her the new deal had to be first a no contact letter we agreed on and I sent and that anytime anyone started flirting or with sexual banter, she was to tell me immediately including who it was and she must walk away from whomever after tellling them what they were doing was inappropriate and unwelcome. As far as the OM, say nothing more than get away from me and call me immediately if it was face to face or a call. If was text or an email - don't delete it, don't respond and call me immediately with the address or number. These rules were not open for interpretation, I didn't want to worry or hurt you or I just thought type of responses. They were 100% non-negotiable if she wanted me to start to rebuild trust and faith in her. Honesty was the MOST important thing. If she had any feelings about contacting the OM or about anyone else, she was to let me know and we would discuss it - obviously after I cooled down. I told her it was critical we build these types of boundaries for me to feel safe and secure after what she had done. There was no way I could START to have trust in her otherwise. I also told her it was a zero tolerance policy. If I ever discovered anything it was divorce. I expected her to divorce me before ever proceeding with anyone else again.

To me, and she agreed, this was where the affair took her completely off track and ruined what we had built. Yes it was a severe screw up on her part and she owned it 100%. The only way I could even consider reconciling was if I could begin to trust my heart wouldn't be torn out again and handed back to me as hamburger.

I also made it a condition that she see a Psychiatrist/therapist to get herself stable on meds becuase of her ongoing depression and to figure out how and why she was able to completely disregard me and my love for her and do this. She couldn't explain why and we both needed to understand it so we could be sure to prevent it in the future.

There were other things, but those were the most important. I'm sure you have you own to add. Again - present them to him writing so you don't forget anything. Answer questions about what you ahve written only - do not discuss it. Tell him that he needs to think seriously and then respond, perferrably in writing so you can be sure he has throughly thought it out.

Just my 2 cents worth to START to make peace - not even a guarantee of reconciling. That can't happen unitl you see the actions to match the words!

To add to the above, there was no such thing as an opposite sex friend unless I was with her. Even in crowd of people with her talking alone with him! She will just have to get over her same sex friends when your not around. PERIOD!


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> 14.5 years ago and one visit was wrong but long gone. Her's way above that. Her's was an affair no matter how you look at it. An EA for sure and I would doubt it's not actually a PA. Treat it like an affair in any event. NC letter to him from her sent by you registered return receipt mail so that if he doesn't give up you can pull a restraining order and have her sign it. Full transparency - phone, emails and fb or chat accounts - you do the same. Out him to his wife, period - she deserves to know and shouldn't be kept in the dark. Also check out the book "NOt Just Friends" and listen to the teleseminars on beyondaffairs.com look for the seminars tab, click it then click the teleseminars tab. She should follow the same expectations required for any wayward spouse (WS).
> 
> I'm sorry but I don't buy strip clubs as cheating. Since she has a problem with them, stopping going there is respectful and OK. But it's not cheating any more than looking at playboy or penthouse or her looking a womans nude man magazine or going to an all male strip club.


Thanks for this one. She has admitted using porn and obviuosly the nude pics and vids from him are porn and way more intimate than strip clubs-which, by the way I will NEVER go to again.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> No you aren't to blame. But prepare for a very messy, uncertain situation for the foreseeable future.
> 
> Here's why:
> 
> ...


You have been through it. You described our current state word for word.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> 14.5 years ago and one visit was wrong but long gone. Her's way above that. Her's was an affair no matter how you look at it. An EA for sure and I would doubt it's not actually a PA. Treat it like an affair in any event. NC letter to him from her sent by you registered return receipt mail so that if he doesn't give up you can pull a restraining order and have her sign it. Full transparency - phone, emails and fb or chat accounts - you do the same. Out him to his wife, period - she deserves to know and shouldn't be kept in the dark. Also check out the book "NOt Just Friends" and listen to the teleseminars on beyondaffairs.com look for the seminars tab, click it then click the teleseminars tab. She should follow the same expectations required for any wayward spouse (WS).
> 
> I'm sorry but I don't buy strip clubs as cheating. Since she has a problem with them, stopping going there is respectful and OK. But it's not cheating any more than looking at playboy or penthouse or her looking a womans nude man magazine or going to an all male strip club.


She really has a problem with the no contact. 

Her "not fair her actions hurt him too" "don't matter you called him-doubt he would talk to me anyway".

I asked if she loved him.

Her "absolutley not I have told you that it meant nothing, you dont believe me. Why would you ask me that"


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

She is really against me telling his wife. She knows I threatened him with that to get the truth but says she hurt so many people she does want more hurt.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

another huge red flag this morning started a fight/meltdown(for her). Her phone was turned off and hidden. It NEVER is. She said it was in the drawer because the battery was dead. 
She had it when we went to bed and she told me she didnt sleep-she was asleep when I got up.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

As someone who has cheated on their wife, here's my thoughts...

Don't tell his spouse (yet). But make it very clear that ANY further contact will result is disclosure to her.

Demand full transparency in all things. Credit card statements, cell phone, all electronic passwords, key logger installed... It's very easy to set up new channels, so watch for that.

You likely contributed to damaging the relationship to the point she even considered seeking attention from another man. But even then, she had options. So her affair is entirely her decision. And I say that as someone who made that same bad decision as her.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bs193 (Jan 2, 2011)

At this point she is not going to accept responsibility and change. She is not motivated to do so. Personally, I would file for divorce or at least talk to a divorce lawyer and make sure she knows it. Two outcomes here. It will serve as the catalyst for her "wake up call" or it will end the marriage. One thing is for certain, you can't be happy in a marriage with someone who's beliefs of right and wrong are so distorted. She chose to have the affair, it all falls on her shoulders. NONE of it falls on yours.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Oh, and the reason I say not to tell his spouse is because right now, it can be used as a threat. Once you tell, you no longer have that club. And his relationship with his spouse doesn't need to be your concern, if he stays away from your spouse.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

PBear said:


> As someone who has cheated on their wife, here's my thoughts...
> 
> Don't tell his spouse (yet). But make it very clear that ANY further contact will result is disclosure to her.
> 
> ...


I know and have told her I accept the things I did wrong or did not do but I did not make her have the EA. She said she agrees but cannot yet say it without point out the things I did.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

It's very hard for you to NOT react aggressively at this point. But a strong word of warning - go cool yourself down when you feel the anger driving you out of control BEFORE you say anything. If you want her to open up, you have to be calm and think first before opening mouth. If you don't she will get defensive and withdraw. Is that what happened? It's very tough to maintain your composure when your hurting and upset. BUT YOU MUST. Most WS take a while to withdraw from what they see as place of safety and someone who will listen and it gets drawn out if the LS attacks and makes them feel worse in their guilt. Get it! She won't stop telling you half truths or what she thinks you want to hear until she can do it in an environment of safety. You know she is doing these things and all you should say is that hurts me and is unacceptable to me - then shut up. Only she can change her behavior. You can't force her to
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

The black brush she is painting your actions with is the only defense she has. Ignore those comments. She will eventually regret saying them when she finally takes ownership. Don't argue those points. Just show her you can be the better man by working on the relationship problems you can. Be the better choice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't agree with Pbear (Hi, Pbear!.. ::waves:



Heartbrkn said:


> She is really against me telling his wife. She knows I threatened him with that to get the truth but says she hurt so many people she does want more hurt.


She's against you telling because:

1. She knows the affair is wrong & is ashamed she now has to face the consequences
_2. This will surely end all her contact with him if his wife finds the truth out._

You may thing the 2nd point is strange but my bet is eventhough she said she ended all contacted, she prob still wants to reach out to him. And if his wife finds out, she knows, their affair isn't a secret anymore and an affair isn't the same ever again after it's exposed. Affairs are secrets. A secret isn't a secret if someone else knows about it. 

You dig? 

*TELL HIS WIFE TODAY. DO NOT AT ALL LET YOUR WIFE KNOW BEFOREHAND.*

WHY???? 

Because she will contact OM to warn him in advance and they can get their stories straight. Because OM is going to deny ti's true saying you are just an angry/insecure/jealous husband who mistook their professional relationship and want to take your anger out on him and his marriage cause things aren't going so well in your marriage.

I can promise you that is going to happen if you let your wife know beforehand. And actually you already have. Her phone being off--red flag. 

Tell his wife today.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

PBear said:


> Oh, and the reason I say not to tell his spouse is because right now, it can be used as a threat. Once you tell, you no longer have that club. And his relationship with his spouse doesn't need to be your concern, if he stays away from your spouse.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


that is my logic for not telling yet. Plus it is incentive for my wife to be truthful as she has been adamant about not hurting him.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> The black brush she is painting your actions with is the only defense she has. Ignore those comments. She will eventually regret saying them when she finally takes ownership. Don't argue those points. Just show her you can be the better man by working on the relationship problems you can. Be the better choice!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks! that was my next question, do I push her on the responsibilty? She says all her fault, her decision not my fault or his but then always comments about me or my thoughts or actions.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I don't agree with Pbear (Hi, Pbear!.. ::waves:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*I do have hard evidence unless she would not recognize a pic her own husbands [email protected]%$!*


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

TELL his wife , hard evidence or not you tell her what you saw and that you spoke to her husband who confirmed the affair. Stop looking for reasons to do what you must do to protect your marriage. Man up take the fear of losing your wife and use this to save your marriage. His wife has a right to know and her knowing gives another set of eyes to keep vigilant. Send her the photo , she will track his phone messages down and confirm in her own mind what he has been doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Heartbrkn said:


> that is my logic for not telling yet. Plus it is incentive for my wife to be truthful as she has been adamant about not hurting him.


I totally understand this logic, but it's not accurate. Remember she is in drug withdrawal - addicts say and do illogical things. As long as OM's wife doesn't know, YOUR wife can justify contact in a number of ways. It's only leverage to the degree she feels she'll be caught by you. 

This is also one of those situations where you tell, not ask, preferably after the fact, as in: "I called OM's wife and told her." 

Same with boundaries. Boundaries are statements, not requests, as in: "This is my boundary around no contact - if you contact him, I'm initiating separation. If he contacts you and you don't tell me, I'm initiating separation. If I find you delete history on your phone or the computer, I'm initiating separation. If you..."


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> I totally understand this logic, but it's not accurate. Remember she is in drug withdrawal - addicts say and do illogical things. As long as OM's wife doesn't know, YOUR wife can justify contact in a number of ways. It's only leverage to the degree she feels she'll be caught by you.
> 
> This is also one of those situations where you tell, not ask, preferably after the fact, as in: "I called OM's wife and told her."
> 
> Same with boundaries. Boundaries are statements, not requests, as in: "This is my boundary around no contact - if you contact him, I'm initiating separation. If he contacts you and you don't tell me, I'm initiating separation. If I find you delete history on your phone or the computer, I'm initiating separation. If you..."


\

I know you are right but I've told her I will not leave her a number of times from the first time I questioned her until D Day. I fear pushing her over the edge and she runs and I cant save marriage.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Heartbrkn said:


> \
> 
> I know you are right but I've told her I will not leave her a number of times from the first time I questioned her until D Day. I fear pushing her over the edge and she runs and I cant save marriage.


Yes, I know the fear well. The irony is that the more firm you are in what you'll accept, the more likely to save the marriage. Also, most guys do not leave their wives when caught. They turtle back. So disclosing to the OM's wife, increases your odds that he's not a safe harbour for her if you were to leave. It works in your best interest.

Oh, and getting past that fear is really the silver lining in this for your life. It breaks the enmeshment that is common for some many of us in marriage and you become more of your own person. It's one positive in generally sh*tty expereince.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Heartbrkn said:


> Thanks! that was my next question, do I push her on the responsibilty? She says all her fault, her decision not my fault or his but then always comments about me or my thoughts or actions.


She knows the responsibility. Her comments on your actions are her excuses or justification. Just ignore them. She will change her tune when R really starts and she finally accepts it was all hers. You can't force her to do that and arguing goes nowhere.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> She knows the responsibility. Her comments on your actions are her excuses or justification. Just ignore them. She will change her tune when R really starts and she finally accepts it was all hers. You can't force her to do that and arguing goes nowhere.


am really hurt and angry. she is saying is her fault and hates herself. She only brings up my faults when I have questions about events or lies.

Still don't know about telling OM's wife...


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Heartbrkn said:


> \
> 
> I know you are right but I've told her I will not leave her a number of times from the first time I questioned her until D Day. I fear pushing her over the edge and she runs and I cant save marriage.


IF you want to reconcile and have it stay together forever, there has to be hard line boundaries WITH SEVERE CONSEQUENCES for inappropriate actions. You are NOT "threatening" to leave IF she does what she is supposed to do. What will you do if she stays in contact and starts going to hotels or other places to have frequent sex? Are you going to lay around and wait for her come back at her own discretion? I certainly hope not. Are you going to let it slide if she keeps communicating with him and wants an open marriage to do as she pleases?

Being gallant and telling her you will work it out with her is far different than being wishy washy and letting her think she can do whatever she wants without the risk of losing you..


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

when I left for work she was crying hard and said she hoped she could make it through the day. Now she just sent me a blow-joke via text?? WTH? is this normal?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

SHe is deflecting and shifting blame Heart. If you can't tolerate listening to it, tell her - your actions were 100% your decision and I will NOT tolerate you blaming YOUR decision on me. IF you continue doing that, we are done talking until you can talk to me respectfully without blaming me. I did not dial the phone for you.

As far as the OM's wife, my wife said the same thing about not wanting to hurt her. Horse hockey, she is protecting him. I told my wife I couldn't in my own conscience not tell her as if it were me in her shoes, I would want to be told. I also told her I could not let this a$$hole get off scott free with no consequences for what he did to our marriage and his own. IN my case, she ultimately agreed I could tell her. In yours, I'm not sure she would ever agree. You know her better than any of us.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> Yes, I know the fear well. The irony is that the more firm you are in what you'll accept, the more likely to save the marriage. Also, most guys do not leave their wives when caught. They turtle back. So disclosing to the OM's wife, increases your odds that he's not a safe harbour for her if you were to leave. It works in your best interest.
> 
> Oh, and getting past that fear is really the silver lining in this for your life. It breaks the enmeshment that is common for some many of us in marriage and you become more of your own person. It's one positive in generally sh*tty expereince.


Last line is powerful!! I have no life outside of my marriage. No friends that are mine not ours. Wife, Kids Work, and our business. FEEL REALLY ALONE NOW AFTER A!


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Heart - if she is attacking back when you ask questions, you must be being too
aggressive. Go listen to this, it's really directed at women with husbands who were cheating but the same basic concepts apply to women being questioned.
http://beyondaffairs.com/MP3s/TS-2010-Feb-26.mp3


This one talks about lying by the WS
http://beyondaffairs.com/MP3s/TS-2010-May-17-Q&A.mp3

THere are tons more here - look around and listen to them
Beyond Affairs Teleseminars


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> This is also one of those situations where you tell, not ask, preferably after the fact, as in: "I called OM's wife and told her."


Me personally, I wouldn't even tell wife that I told the OM's wife. I would tell the OM's wife what I know and that they had/are having an affair that's detrimental to my marriage and keep mum.

Once your wife finds out... and SHE WILL, you will KNOW it by her actions. KNOW that. She is going to get really pissed off. But that is just the reaction you want  It's basically having her drug dealer arrested so she can't get to the candy/drug anymore. Win-win.

Re: your wife saying he doesn't want to hurt OM's wife... that is BS. She did not care about her feelings at all when she hooked up with OM. So don't buy that line now. Also, it goes with the fact she doesn't want the affair discovered because she is now just starting to see the gravity of her decision to cheat AND the fact you telling will put the kabosh on the entire thing. Win-win again.



Heartbrkn said:


> I know you are right but I've told her I will not leave her a number of times from the first time I questioned her until D Day. .


This was your first mistake.
Actually, your first and ongoing mistake has been not telling the OM's wife. So you need to correct that problem and fast. *Tell her now. *

Your second ongoing mistake is guaranteeing her you'll be there for her. See, she has no incentive to end the affair. Take it away. Tell her you have been thinking a lot about your marriage to her and the affair and want to think things over... but you know for certain that if any reconciliation is possible (FOR YOU), she needs to end it with OM. Yesterday. You must absolutely NOT guarantee her that you will be there for her, the fallback guy. HELL to the NO!



Heartbrkn said:


> I fear pushing her over the edge and she runs and I cant save marriage.


This is your third problem. Fear is useless. Fear makes you a doormat. Sorry to sound harsh. But lose the fear. Once you stop FEARING you can start LIVING.If she knows you fear losing her, then it goes with your 2nd mistake... if she knows you fear losing her and guarantee being her fallback guy, she has NO reason at all to end the affair. 

Get it?? 

And, another thing.. you can't see it right now cause you're in the beginning and thick of this mess...you can't see it now but the thing is...if you state your boundaries (affair must end and if not, I'm gone) and she runs anyway...then she wasn't committed to you truly. She didn't care enough about your marriage.

NEVER fear losing someone who doesn't want to be with you in the first place. You won't see that last point til you're a few months out from now, and also depending on how good your self-esteem is, but you WILL see it eventually. 

So take it from someone who's been there--the sooner you let her know the possibility of losing you is very real, the better your chances are for reconciliation. 

Every time.

See, she should be sweating you right now, not the other way around. She should be going out of her 
got damn mind right now thinking she may lose her husband, family, home, everything she's built all because she had an affair.

You should not be afraid. She should. 

Oh and check your poll out... every single person that has voted has voted for telling OM's wife... they don't tell us we know wth we're talking about for nothing. I'm just sayin'. 



Heartbrkn said:


> am really hurt and angry. she is saying is her fault and hates herself. She only brings up my faults when I have questions about events or lies.
> 
> Still don't know about telling OM's wife...





Heartbrkn said:


> when I left for work she was crying hard and said she hoped she could make it through the day. Now she just sent me a blow-joke via text?? WTH? is this normal?


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Jelly I think you are right but am I hurting his wife and kid more by telling. don't give a s#%& bout him.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Actually you're hurting his wife by NOT telling her. She has a right to know about the truth of her marriage. And every day you don't tell her, you're hurting your marriage. Know why? Because every day you keep the secret for them, you're enabling the affair.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Damn heart - if you didn't know and she did, would you rather stay blind and happy and have it continue or be told?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

IF you would rather be blind and happy, tell your wife go ahead - do whatever you want. I'll be waiting for you.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

SOrry, I'm going to stop reading this thread for awhile, I'm getting pissed.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

8years you are right. gotta tell her.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> SOrry, I'm going to stop reading this thread for awhile, I'm getting pissed.


And rightly so. I wish the OW had a husband I could tell.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

YOU MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION, I'm not going to abandon you just becuase your making up your own mind, I was just getting out of line and needed to cool off a little. You will find that happening to you a lot going through this.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sexuallyfustrated said:


> And rightly so. I wish the OW had a husband I could tell.


You're too kind. I wish the OW in my case gets married some day and her husband cheats on her following the exact way it happened in my situation. Hope she also gets all the gritty details too. :smthumbup:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> YOU MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION, I'm not going to abandon you just becuase your making up your own mind, I was just getting out of line and needed to cool off a little. You will find that happening to you a lot going through this.


LOL look at you, all over the place. 

It's funny cause when you type in all caps, I imagine your Animal avatar screaming the words out.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

8years-no worries, hard to hurt or offend me in my current state. you are farther into the process than me.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

I assure you, you NEED to tell his wife. This is not some petty tit-for-tat he said-she said, this is a persons life who needs to be able to make some honest decisions in the best interests of herself and her family. 
You holding back the information is akin to you allowing the affair. Trust us, take control of your life and make decisions that suit you, not her. When the fog clears and she sees you moving on with your life it'll earn you a ton of respect. And cause her to panic some.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

thanks badger. still in a fog.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Do it fast. The longer the affair is kept a secret, the worse chances for your marriage.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Yep Jb that's why it's my nickname!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I view your actions as being as bad as each others. 

She did not do it though because of what you did, but it may have helped her rationalize it at the time.

If my SO went to strip clubs I would be disgusted and if he slept over at an ex girlfriends, sex or not, that would be cheating to me.

You have been very dishonest and have not treated her well at all.

You both have not treated your marriage the way you should have nor put each other first.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> You're too kind. I wish the OW in my case gets married some day and her husband cheats on her following the exact way it happened in my situation. Hope she also gets all the gritty details too. :smthumbup:



:lol:.....Sometimes I think I am being to nice about the for the most part. I told my husband that if he and I din't work out and he ended up with her I would let her know that under NO circumstances would I allow her to be happy with him. I would be a bigger pain in her ass than she is thorn in my side. Because while he tells her that he is seeing his kids he'll really be in bed with me. And when he gets up to leave in the middle of the night saying he has to go ck on his kids something happens(something he has never ever done with me), he'll be coming because I called him. He laugh and said although that sounds good to him he knows me enough to know that I'll NEVER do that because it's just not me. I replied no it's not but I will make her feel every bit of pain I felt and more.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

His wife has a right to know---if this were reversed and the other betrayed knew and didn't tell you---would you think that was not very fair---she has a right to all the information available about her life---and that includes a cheating H.---she is entitled to full knowledge in making decisions about the rest of her life----also she will be any ally in case your wife is still in contact, or her H. is still trying to contact

If the outcome of your situation is R.---things you must do, are to help find things for your wife to do---day after day as she sits home, bored to death---and gets into trouble by talking with all her male friends

The male friends gotta go---it is inappropriate for a married woman to have a bunch of male friends

Also you are gonna have to spice up your married life---things are very boring for her, and she will get herself into trouble again---if her lifestyle doesn't change


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

I think you're more afraid of your wife's reaction on the issue of exposure, than the OM's family. You seem to think that by outing OM, your wife is going to get angry and leave you- SO BE IT! If she really wanted this to work, she would have no problem with your intentions upon saving the marriage. You need to tell BW.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Syrum said:


> I view your actions as being as bad as each others.
> 
> She did not do it though because of what you did, but it may have helped her rationalize it at the time.
> 
> ...


Fair statements and I will not say I was not wrong. 

I did tell her exactly what happened when asked about the strip clubs and the ex-visit. 
FYI the ex-visit was closure for me to clear baggage(thoughts/feelings) I had that I should have cleared before I said my vows. Wanted ex to say she missed her chance and she did say it. Wife and I discussed it at the time(fall '95) and I have never seen ex since.

Strip clubs- I went with my bosses and or co-workers. I did not use it for sexual satisfaction, did not make efforts to hide it and did not lie at all when asked.

WW has done EVERYTHING you can think of except PA with the OM and there was much discussion of a PA. 600 miles separation and 3 kids are probably waht stopped that.

So NO I will not accept that it is the same or that 2 wrongs make a right.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> I think you're more afraid of your wife's reaction on the issue of exposure, than the OM's family. You seem to think that by outing OM, your wife is going to get angry and leave you- SO BE IT! If she really wanted this to work, she would have no problem with your intentions upon saving the marriage. You need to tell BW.


Actually you may be partially correct. I believe I received the whole truth form my wife last night. BUT the other reason I have not outed the OM is I fear losing the threat I have over him regarding no contact.

My wife has admitted it is an addiction and I fear relapse if I do not have the ammo against him.

Still only 6 days from (confirmed) D Day so I may be all wrong.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Your logic is twisted and hiding behind your sense of fear. The OM and your wife know they can go underground because you are facilitating the affair, expose the affair to his wife and stop waffling , analysing and looking for every reason not to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> . The OM and your wife know they can go underground because you are facilitating the affair, expose the affair to his wife and stop waffling , analysing and looking for every reason not to.


Exactly. Every minute that goes by that you don't expose it, you are actually *helping* them continue their secret affair.

Good luck.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Sent OM's wife an e-mail and will follow up with a call. Let the chips fall.

My wife has told mean what she calls the whole truth last night although she keeps finding additions corrections today. Pretty specific details so we may be getting there.

She agreed to NC. I told her he breaks it I need to know immediately, she breaks it I'm gone.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Good move, once you have confirmed the OM's wife knows the truth you can focus on your marriage. Be aware his wife may already know, be in denial or chose to ignore the truth. All you do is be honest with her , let her know your wife has acknowledged the affair , talk about permanent NC and offer the evidence thereafter it is for her to deal with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Good move, once you have confirmed the OM's wife knows the truth you can focus on your marriage. Be aware his wife may already know, be in denial or chose to ignore the truth. All you do is be honest with her , let her know your wife has acknowledged the affair , talk about permanent NC and offer the evidence thereafter it is for her to deal with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife says OM wife suspected last fall after she saw a non explicit crotch pic of my wife on his phone but bought his BS story. My wife says they cooled it for a few weeks to let it blow over.

M considering nailing him at his work too as most of his efforts were on work time and all on work cell.


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## findingmyway (May 25, 2011)

Depending on who his employer is, he could get in a bunch of do-do I would imagine.

Good luck, and to answer your initial question. No you do not deserve it.

FMW


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Assuming you have the evidence including if these were sent in work time you can, should he not back off write a note to his employer stating misuse of company time and equipment. You do not lose anything by preparing, obtain the contact details incase. I would tell his wife that this is a consideration on your side. It gives her ammo over him as well.



_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Your wife is trickling the truth to you, it could be intentional or it could be she is trying to bury it to forget what she had became and has done. Try the approach with your wife where you ask her questions and give her time to write down the answers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Your wife is trickling the truth to you, it could be intentional or it could be she is trying to bury it to forget what she had became and has done. Try the approach with your wife where you ask her questions and give her time to write down the answers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good idea thanks. I think there is some trickle truth. I do believe she is remorsefull and ashamed but I also feel at high risk for relapse. 

She says she wont contact him because I threatened to out him and leave her-not because it is over.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Heartbrkn said:


> Sent OM's wife an e-mail and will follow up with a call. Let the chips fall.
> .



Good. You did the right thing. Do not tell your wife at all that you told his wife. If she is still in contact with OM, you WILL hear about it, trust me. And you will know how that shook out. 



Heartbrkn said:


> She agreed to NC. I told her he breaks it I need to know immediately, she breaks it I'm gone.


Great boundary. Now you have to uphold it.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

In bad place today. Wife cannot have discussion about the A with aludeing to this thread's title. She says it a few different ways but so far makes it clear she chose to do it BUT was tempted because I didn't say this, do that...


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

8 Days from fully confirmed D Day.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Mate, I don't believe in guilt, I believe in action and consequence ONLY - or I try to anyways.

I hate the word 'deserve'. Hell karma dictates that I should be dead (just cause I'm just a prick), but I'm not dead, therefore karma doesn't exist!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I totally believe in guilt. It is a motherf-cker.

If you do something bad/wrong and don't feel guilt over it, I think there may be something wrong with you. (you meaning, anyone who does something awful and doesn't feel bad).


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

RandomDude - Too small a sample and too short a timeline. 

I believe Karma manifests in the energy you attracted and repel. If you consistently act selfishly, lie, use people, that's the energy you put out and no one will consistently stay around, so you cycle through people constantly, which works while you are young and active, but burns you in the later part of your life. 

Now, people make mistakes and life is largely an exercise in forgiveness. But if you take a selfish path, you'll end up alone.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

And if you take a shellfish path, you may end up with red blotches


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## Dave_nz (Apr 22, 2013)

wow, sounds like the excuses my wife used...thought I did not love her anymore, I did not pay enough compliments etc... still not 100% sure why. good luck


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Upon reading the title "Do I deserve my wife's affair ?" , I was like, what the hell ...no one deserves their spouses affair, regardless of the situation. What you did was wrong, but was long ago, you told her about it and stopped it. Even if you had a PA, once you agreed to R, that means you're BOTH recommited to M. If she can't do that, if your marriage became a battle of revenge affairs then it's no longer a marriage !

Should you tell the OMW? Like, yesterday ! I don't get why you feel that you would lose leverage, like you need bribe the OM to stay away by not telling his wife. On the contrary, you ensure he stays away by telling his wife - she'll make sure of that !
Another problem I see is you telling your wife you will not leave her as soon as you confronted her. Now she knows there will be no serious repercussions for her actions. You should have made her squirm for a while, be worried, beg for forgiveness...you've been too soft.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

"Look Sherman, someone's found our Way back machine"










#ZOMBIE THREAD


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## Single Malt (May 2, 2013)

Only people that deserve to be cheated on are the cheaters themselves. Now question is, is going to strip clubs considered cheating? Its a matter of opinion, but it is my opinion that its pretty damn close to cheating. Disrespectful to say the least.

Since she likes to cheat and you like to go to strip clubs, perhaps you both simply are better off not married to each other.


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