# love vs. attachment



## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

I am codependent, my stbxh a person of bad character (dishonest about some things, selfish, irresponsible, etc.) We have been separated 7 weeks. It occurred to me today...what if I don't actually love him? What if my codependent mind thinks it is in love, but is really actually attached? Any thoughts on the differsnce between the two?
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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

MyselfAgain said:


> I am codependent, my stbxh a person of bad character (dishonest about some things, selfish, irresponsible, etc.) We have been separated 7 weeks. It occurred to me today...what if I don't actually love him? What if my codependent mind thinks it is in love, but is really actually attached? Any thoughts on the differsnce between the two?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After a conversation I had with a good friend last night and some posts on TAM, I am wondering about the same thing as well.

Why do love someone who doesn't love me back, who really does not have my back or best interests at heart? 

Sounds familiar?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Over-attachment to anything and anyone is a bad idea.
Think of it in terms of if you were your own best friend or ideal mentor, and you really cared about yourself. That is, picture yourself as someone not yourself who cared a great deal about you. From that person's perspective, would you really want yourself involved with your partner, and what advice would you give regarding the relationship. Be honest!
Co-dependence is serious stuff.
I'm reading a book entitled "The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships" by Harriet Lerner, PhD. It has a lot of good stuff in it, including some of the reasons why women give in to men and how the anger just builds but can be entirely subconsciously repressed and can feed into health problems, problems with rage that percolates to the surface every once in a while, etc. I tend to be a peace-keeper and my driving force, which is not unique, is guilt along with shame. In my new relationships (friends with guys, etc.) I tend to make sure I am not asking for too much, and communicate when I am uncomfortable about a balance of power issue, such as with one friend who always picks up the tab for dinner. This does wonders for alleviation of any kind of guilt that could occur. As for shame, some of the stories these guys tell me about their past, it's about equal and sometimes worse than my own stories. There is no judgement, just understanding. 
Anyway, I recommend the book, it will help you connect with any feelings of anger you might have been suppressing, once you deal with anger and stuff that feeds anger, and get that out of the way, you can decide if what is left is love. It's hard to tell if you love someone if you have anger at them...too confusing, as you've already pointed out. Because of course even people who are love-able can hurt feelings or act like a jerk sometimes. That's why it's important to be in touch with when you feel slighted or angry. Once it piles up, it's just a huge pile of manure you have to dig through or blast away to try to get to the underlying truth. As you know, it is a lot of work, so grab a shovel and get started.


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## Andy968 (Apr 29, 2012)

I've been asking myself the same questions. I think I felt safe and comfortable in a routine relationship, that gave little in return. Maybe I was willing to sacrifice my needs to maintain status quo and avoid the fear of a divorce and future relationships. I don't know if this is it. It's hard to get my head around.


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## enorevlap (May 14, 2012)

You know, when I first found out about this website, I discovered I'm "not alone" and in fact the very words my STBEXW uses to me, others have said the same thing. It's creepy really.

So, this too is something I contemplate. I have absolutely every reason to accept my wife's forcing of our divorce, heck her A alone and refusal to leave the OM should force me to tell her to go away, but I still cling on with hope that we can work it out, to me for the kids (let's not debating the right/wrong way to stay in a marriage).

Why do I still cry for this woman, and wait for her to sign in (we're over 5,000 miles away, one of the main causes of her A (she chose this for work reasons, not me.)).

It's been 43 days since the discovery of her big A against me and my children, and it's been 103 days since she wanted D but gave me no reason (the very same time she had been seeing the OM but always denied he existed until I discovered it).

Someone please help me figure this out *cries*


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

enorevlap said:


> You know, when I first found out about this website, I discovered I'm "not alone" and in fact the very words my STBEXW uses to me, others have said the same thing. It's creepy really.
> 
> So, this too is something I contemplate. I have absolutely every reason to accept my wife's forcing of our divorce, heck her A alone and refusal to leave the OM should force me to tell her to go away, but I still cling on with hope that we can work it out, to me for the kids (let's not debating the right/wrong way to stay in a marriage).
> 
> ...


I think some of the guys have a thread for exactly this sort of thing going on over in the clubhouse or somewhere like that. Basically I was quoted as saying they gave away their identity/selves in the pursuit of p*ssy. Apparently it is a common thing to do. There is a thread about co-dependency. I think for men it doesn't happen initially the way it does for a lot of women...it kind of comes up gradually and is masked behind things that are requests for manliness, and so more insiduous. Like spending your time fixing up something around the house, planting extra decorative shrubs, suddenly getting a pool and needing to do the maintenance, etc. To the extent that your friends and personal time suffer. With women, it's different, they get involved initially in giving sex, which works out great for the guys...but after a while they get bored with the attention as it doesn't make them really feel any better, just used, then they hate the guy for it/how they feel. 

From either perspective, co-dependency leads to misery.

When I get tired of being a woman and dealing with myself 24x7 I take myself to the movies and hide in the dark for a couple hours. I can't talk to myself. I can't listen to myself. No problems, no co-dependency, no history, just tune into someone else's life/story/issues/drama/comedy. When I come out I usually feel refreshed. I think anyone who suffers from co-dependency should have a few activities up their sleeve that they know are all-encompassing in terms of their attention, and remember to go do those activities when they are feeling 'lost'.


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## enorevlap (May 14, 2012)

What the problem has been since this is going on is most of the things I enjoy doing would trap me into my thoughts and they would spin around and spiral around and make it worse.

I really need to get back in shape, regardless on whether or not my heartless STBEXW is doing what she has done. My activity is cycling, and it would not be the best for me. 

Everyone says focus on yourself, and as much as I agree it's a matter of figuring out how to love yourself again I am most struggling with. I blame myself, because I know there were key areas I could have been a better husband, and those things will haunt me. I agree it takes two to tango, and arguments and situations are not usually one sided. 

I just look forward to the time it doesn't hurt anymore.




Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I think some of the guys have a thread for exactly this sort of thing going on over in the clubhouse or somewhere like that. Basically I was quoted as saying they gave away their identity/selves in the pursuit of p*ssy. Apparently it is a common thing to do. There is a thread about co-dependency. I think for men it doesn't happen initially the way it does for a lot of women...it kind of comes up gradually and is masked behind things that are requests for manliness, and so more insiduous. Like spending your time fixing up something around the house, planting extra decorative shrubs, suddenly getting a pool and needing to do the maintenance, etc. To the extent that your friends and personal time suffer. With women, it's different, they get involved initially in giving sex, which works out great for the guys...but after a while they get bored with the attention as it doesn't make them really feel any better, just used, then they hate the guy for it/how they feel.
> 
> From either perspective, co-dependency leads to misery.
> 
> When I get tired of being a woman and dealing with myself 24x7 I take myself to the movies and hide in the dark for a couple hours. I can't talk to myself. I can't listen to myself. No problems, no co-dependency, no history, just tune into someone else's life/story/issues/drama/comedy. When I come out I usually feel refreshed. I think anyone who suffers from co-dependency should have a few activities up their sleeve that they know are all-encompassing in terms of their attention, and remember to go do those activities when they are feeling 'lost'.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

I had this same thing cross my mind many times. Here is the convo I had with my counselor...

Counselor: If you met someone new, right now, that did the things your husband does, and treats you the way your husband treats you, would you start or continue a relationship with them?

Me: Heck no! I don't want to go through this ever again.

Counselor: Ok. So what is it you love about your husband?

Me: I just have all of these memories of how things used to be, and it's hard to let go.

Counselor: How things used to be? Are you referring to the alcohol fueled arguments? The times he pushed you or slapped you? Or do you mean when he was drunk and would show you physical affection?

Me: I know, I know...but I'm just sad that things have turned out this way... that our marriage is over...

Counselor: I think you are mourning the death of the fantasy you created. You spent the majority of your relationship thinking you could help him and fix him. You fell in love with who he could be not who he was. He is still who he has always been.

And that's the thing... I was in love with who I thought my husband could be...who I wanted him to be... I romanticized every screwed up interaction we ever had.

I don't love him. I never loved him. I loved the idea of him.


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## enorevlap (May 14, 2012)

That's about dead on, but you know it's funny, as much as I agree with those things, I still wait for her to talk to me, to sign in when she wants to talk to our girls, and I expect her to actually care about me.

One of the hardest parts is the fact she _doesn't_ care about me anymore, and as much as her words say otherwise, her actions clearly tell me she does not care what is best for our children.

I still shake my head in disbelief that after I asked her to consider the children, what she will tell them, how will she explain why she doesn't love their daddy any more and doesn't want to be with him again, and ultimately who is this guy she now gives her love to... What will she say?

She says "I know the kids will hurt. But time heals everything."

Is it just me, or is that a load of crap? Seriously? As true as it may be, but we as parents have to _reduce_ the amount of pain and suffering we give our children, and make an effort to eliminate it completely.

(Sorry, I don't want to go off topic)



Kearson said:


> I had this same thing cross my mind many times. Here is the convo I had with my counselor...
> 
> Counselor: If you met someone new, right now, that did the things your husband does, and treats you the way your husband treats you, would you start or continue a relationship with them?
> 
> ...


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

canguy66 said:


> After a conversation I had with a good friend last night and some posts on TAM, I am wondering about the same thing as well.
> 
> Why do love someone who doesn't love me back, who really does not have my back or best interests at heart?
> 
> Sounds familiar?


Heh, sounds familiar! Deep down I think my stbxh does love me...I think he does not love himself, and is projecting his difficulties in life onto me. Sound familiar? 
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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Andy968 said:


> I've been asking myself the same questions. I think I felt safe and comfortable in a routine relationship, that gave little in return. Maybe I was willing to sacrifice my needs to maintain status quo and avoid the fear of a divorce and future relationships. I don't know if this is it. It's hard to get my head around.


Andy, I am sure that is part of it, for me too. I am quite sure that fear has been my dominant issue in the relationship, keeping me from kicking my stbxh out when he disappointed me in the beginning. It just got harder as the years passed.
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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Kearson said:


> I had this same thing cross my mind many times. Here is the convo I had with my counselor...
> 
> Counselor: If you met someone new, right now, that did the things your husband does, and treats you the way your husband treats you, would you start or continue a relationship with them?
> 
> ...


Wow. 

I am going to meditate on this.
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