# Ugh. Please tell me it's not hopeless.



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

So dumb.

We went out with friends. 
At bar, I got annoyed with something he did. (not huge, but struck me rude; socially clumsy)
Let him know; ok.
Left bar.
Walking home, I brought it up again, said "I'm not mad at you, just tell me you understand that I felt this way."
he did. But...I'm not sure how, but somehow got to the point where he maxed out and yelled "F you."
"F you" = over my boundary.
So I stay as calm as I can, we get home.
I try what had worked before, asking "what do you need from me?" and then let him know I don't like how he talked to me and I want an apology for it.
He apologizes.

It turns out he is much more drunk than i've ever seen him, EVER.
This becomes apparent to me quickly.
Stumbling, slurring, says he feels puke-ish----I've seriously never seen him this intoxicated.

Can I just chalk this debacle up to the damn alcohol?
Can i just blame it on his being basically drunk and therefore very low in his inhibitions?

Please someone, I need some encouragement here.
I was feeling so much better in the past few days.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lunalady (Aug 11, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Can I just chalk this debacle up to the damn alcohol?
> Can i just blame it on his being basically drunk and therefore very low in his inhibitions?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I honestly think you can blame it on the alcohol. The times when my husband got drunk, he was way different from his usual self. He said things he shouldn't have said and I know he didn't mean them - it was the alcohol speaking. And I was even a bit afraid of him when he was like that - when sober I know 100% he would never shout or hit me; when he was drunk he shouted, which was so out of his normal self...

I also know from other experience with alcohol that yes, it makes people very low in their inhibitions. That's why I don't particulary like it 

So don't be too hard on your husband


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

I'm a heavy drinker. Not dependent, I just like it a lot.

From my experiences with myself and others, alcohol does not "change" a person. It doesn't make people mean, it doesn't make them cheat, it doesn't make them depressed.
It allows the true person to emerge with no inhibitions, manners or second thoughts.

That "F--- You" came from the heart.

Thankfully, I am a really happy person!


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Sadly...I've heard "F you" without alcohol, but with anger.
I'm not ok with that.
He knows that I'm not ok with it. That is the problem---he knows.
That said...I guess the alcohol made him more reactive and prone to do exactly what I don't like.
I've been talking such a big talk, how I'm in emo temp "cool to room temp," doing so great, blah blah blah.
I really was feeling better. Then this stupid fight.
It just doesn't have to be this way.
How...and when...does the cycle...ever....change?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nibiru (Jan 26, 2011)

It was the booze.
Case closed.

p.s. Try not to be so judgmental - rightly, or wrongly, he feels like you've got him under a microscope the whole time you're with him. He was perfect for you when you met him - or did you look at hm and think, "Hmmm, good raw material here, with a bit of work, I can mold him into my ideal man :smthumbup: "


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

N, just curious...have you read any of my other posts?
(thanks for replying, either way.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nibiru (Jan 26, 2011)

Nope, sorry - why do you ask?
Just running on what you wrote this time around.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Nibiru said:


> Nope, sorry - why do you ask?
> Just running on what you wrote this time around.


I guess the overall context of my problems with my H, and this incident in that context.
Such as: he's said it before when *not* under the influence of alcohol.
Such as: just a week ago, I had to deal with a raging temper tantrum that was caused by his perception and interpretation of the "vibes" I was sending out, wordlessly.
Such as: we've been "embroiled in conflict so long" we've "lost the forest for the trees."

Also, because you're right---he does feel like he's under a microscope and is always screwing up in my eyes.
So with all that considered...still just the booze?

It should be said I was buzzed too, and more reactive and sensitive than normal.
But I still didn't cuss or yell at him, drunk or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nibiru (Jan 26, 2011)

"_Drunk men tell no lies_" - It was the booze.

You're looking for perfection from the ONE guy YOU chose from ALL the rest available to you, as being THE ONE.
And now, you feel HE has let you down because of a few minor ****-ups you think he made, while he was unde your scrutiny.
Right?
:iagree:

Chances are, no-one else noticed.....or maybe they did - those people who, to YOU are important....and YOU felt disappointed, didn't you.
Not in him, but in yourself, because YOU chose HIM, and you were worried that your friends/acquaintances, would say "Told you so!"
They won't.
He got p!55ed,and he might have even played that card to its fullest 


> It turns out he is much more drunk than i've ever seen him, EVER.
> This becomes apparent to me quickly.
> Stumbling, slurring, says he feels puke-ish-


feeling embarrassed, and that he let you down.

Have a talk about it with him....gently, and constructively - and then make mad, crazy LOVE with him, because The Attraction is there, and when everyone else has gone home, you BOTH still have each other. :smthumbup:


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## Ophelia19 (Jan 24, 2011)

Some what same incident happened with me a month ago. We were on a vacation around Christmas and visited a bar there. He was drunk that day more than i ever seen him. We were having some conversation there and it was heated up. As we are from different origin, people sitting around was not able to understand our fight. From there i get into a silent mode and end up any type of talk with him. when we were returning to our hotel he apologized and said it was because of alcohol. But i think alcohol lessen the hesitation and made him more frank and open. what he can't do when he is conscious he can easily execute when he is drunk and afterward he has a magic line too "I was Drunk" to overcome from his guilt and your anger.
But after that he try to control himself & not get that much drunk.


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## lunalady (Aug 11, 2010)

"Drunk men tell no lies" - While I think this is true, they also babble a lot. So whatever your husband said or did that you didn't like (apart from that f-word) was just like you described - clumsy, but not neccessarily deliberate or "him".


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Nibiru said:


> "_Drunk men tell no lies_" - It was the booze.You're looking for perfection from the ONE guy YOU chose from ALL the rest available to you, as being THE ONE.
> And now, you feel HE has let you down because of a few minor ****-ups you think he made, while he was unde your scrutiny.
> Right?:iagree:Chances are, no-one else noticed.....or maybe they did - those people who, to YOU are important....and YOU felt disappointed, didn't you.
> Not in him, but in yourself, because YOU chose HIM, and you were worried that your friends/acquaintances, would say "Told you so!" They won't.
> ...


I hate the F-ing and blinding like the next person, and(but) definitely feel 'in vino veritas' so yes you possibly should deal with the yelling at you BUT without making TOO much of it because of the drink; as to whether or not you needed to raise the issue which caused the problem in the first place, well I probably would have, but we have conflicts surrounding 're-discussing' stuff so that may be something of a sideline. Anyway, I don't think it's hopeless because of one episode of booze-fueled nastiness.

However Niburu's last observation, to talk about it then leap off to bed? No could do.... name-calling/conflict and sex are incompatible in my book whatever the attraction, and depite many well-constructed and well-meant posts I've not seen one that can truly get inside my head & change my thinking on that one!


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Also, because you're right---he does feel like he's under a microscope and is always screwing up in my eyes.
> So with all that considered...still just the booze?
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> So dumb.
> 
> We went out with friends.
> At bar, I got annoyed with something he did. (not huge, but struck me rude; socially clumsy)
> ...


I am going to try to say this in the nicest way possible. Still and all it won't sit well.

If I were your DH, I would be so sick and tired of all the things I did that annoyed you, *I* would tell you to stick it in no uncertain terms. Can he do ANYTHING right? Do you have to beat each and every little thing he says to death with endless deep relationship discussions? It seems like it is daily.

To be completely honest, if you don't get over yourself a little and learn to like the guy you married, yes it is hopeless.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

When your focus is on correcting his behavior rather than accepting it, yes all will be lost. If you did something socially awkward would you want him trying to point it out to you twice? People make mistakes and their spouse has to be a person that accepts you warts and all and gives unconditional love and support.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> I am going to try to say this in the nicest way possible. Still and all it won't sit well.
> 
> If I were your DH, I would be so sick and tired of all the things I did that annoyed you, *I* would tell you to stick it in no uncertain terms. Can he do ANYTHING right? Do you have to beat each and every little thing he says to death with endless deep relationship discussions? It seems like it is daily.
> 
> To be completely honest, if you don't get over yourself a little and learn to like the guy you married, yes it is hopeless.


I need to hear this. It sits just fine with me.
The LEAST HELPFUL thing would be someone telling me he's 100% wrong, a jerk, and ain't nothing gonna change no matter how much I try (to lighten up, get over myself, whatever).
THIS implies that some things are within my power to change.

But...here's a part of last night that i didn't share:

As we were walking home, I pulled my hand out of his to put in my pocket, and my college ring fell off and into the snow.
We started looking around on the ground for it to no avail.
H wanted to STOP ME in the middle of the road to tell me "nobody even wears their class ring anymore except you!" but I kept walking because I didn't want to be stopped and scolded.
THAT'S when the "F you" came out.
It was NOT because I was pushing a deep relationship discussion.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

4sure said:


> credamdóchasgra said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, growing anger and resentment. You make him feel inadequate, that he doesn't measure up. You correct his behavior in public in front of friends, how embarrassing for him. If it wasn't a big deal why didn't you let it go until you got home, then discuss it the next day. He lashes out by saying F-U knowing it hurts you, because you are hurting him. He feels like a child that is being scolded, and shamed for his behavior. He apologizes not because he feels he's wrong, he doesn't want a long drawn out "what is wrong with him" speech, so he ends it by apology.
> ...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I need to hear this. It sits just fine with me.
> The LEAST HELPFUL thing would be someone telling me he's 100% wrong, a jerk, and ain't nothing gonna change no matter how much I try (to lighten up, get over myself, whatever).
> THIS implies that some things are within my power to change.
> 
> ...


Last reply. What I read here is

I want to hear the things I can do differently BUT

It wasn't me, wasn't my "fault". It's him.

He has built up his own resentment. Change the dynamic. But you don't REALLY want to hear that. You want to hear that you are right and that he is wrong. I foresee that unless you get that really out of your mind, which you have not really accepted with anything other than Yah BUT... your relationship is hopeless.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Hicks said:


> When your focus is on correcting his behavior rather than accepting it, yes all will be lost. If you did something socially awkward would you want him trying to point it out to you twice? People make mistakes and their spouse has to be a person that accepts you warts and all and gives unconditional love and support.


I get it.

The "socially awkward/rude" thing was kind of directed at me, but I admit that's how I perceived it...and I could've perceived it in a COMPLETELY different way that wouldnt' have led to any problems.

I felt pushed out of a conversation by him, because basically he took over it, as I got sidetracked by another conversation.

But I didn't have to see it this way; I could've seen what he was saying in a positive, appreciative light.

I also could've re-entered the conversation instead of sitting there watching him with increasing annoyance.

Yup. 
I had my beer goggles on too, and it made him look and sound WORSE to me. 
vt is right on one major point: if I don't learn to like the man I married, we're screwed.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> I want to hear the things I can do differently BUT
> 
> It wasn't me, wasn't my "fault". It's him.
> 
> He has built up his own resentment. Change the dynamic. But you don't REALLY want to hear that. You want to hear that you are right and that he is wrong. I foresee that unless you get that really out of your mind, which you have not really accepted with anything other than Yah BUT... your relationship is hopeless.


It's not that I want him to be "wrong."

It's that in the bad moments, I still feel hurt, discouraged, angry, and frustrated. 
That's not to "blame" him. They're just the bad feelings.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Update...and I don't know if I handled this right, but here's how I did:
said to H: "I asked you to apologize to me, but I owe you an apology too. I'm sorry I criticized and scrutinized you and made you feel like you were doing something wrong. I don't want you to feel like I only see things wrong with you. You've been good to me all week and I want you to know I appreciate it and I love you. It was a really dumb fight that shouldn't have happened and we weren't clear-headed."
basically, as usual, i made peace.
then I suggested we just don't talk about any grievances, problems, issues, when we are drinking. He agreed.
He said "I'm sorry I'm a jerk."
we talked a little bit about not wanting to fight so much, nothing revolutionary.
then we had "makeup sex."
then he made me lunch.
Now I need to readjust my emo thermostat again.

now I guess we're starting "fresh."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Great Job! When you show approval and appreciation, that is what you will get back. Now what will happen when you do this consistently for 1,2,3 months.. Then the mode of your marriage will be one of mutual appreciation.

When you say "as usuual I made peace"... I would say it takes a conscious effort by one party to lead the marriage out of the hole.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Hicks said:


> Great Job! When you show approval and appreciation, that is what you will get back. Now what will happen when you do this consistently for 1,2,3 months.. Then the mode of your marriage will be one of mutual appreciation.
> 
> When you say "as usuual I made peace"... I would say it takes a conscious effort by one party to lead the marriage out of the hole.


thanks for your support, Hicks.
Along with showing approval and appreciation, though, I still am trying to be conscious of not overdoing it, and puttng more emotional energy in "chasing" him all the time.
He needs to see someone confident and secure, not clingy.
I posted about this as the "thermostat/temperature" idea.
Idk...it is a challenging balance.
I guess I wanted to strike this stupid drunk fight from our record and go back to the slow steady progress I thought we mightve been making...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> It's not that I want him to be "wrong."
> 
> It's that in the bad moments, I still feel hurt, discouraged, angry, and frustrated.
> That's not to "blame" him. They're just the bad feelings.


Who owns these bad feelings?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Who owns these bad feelings?


I do.
They're not as bad as they used to be, though.
I get bad feelings when my H is mean or unreasonable.
My H is mean and unreasonable when we argue.
We argue when one of us isn't happy with something.
Usually that person is me---yes, I see the connection and root cause.
Yes, I see it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Totally separate question:
- How high is his sexual desire for you
- How high is yours for him

How often does he "initiate"
How often do you initiate

How often does one of you reject the others sexual overtures?




credamdóchasgra said:


> I do.
> They're not as bad as they used to be, though.
> I get bad feelings when my H is mean or unreasonable.
> My H is mean and unreasonable when we argue.
> ...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I do.
> They're not as bad as they used to be, though.
> I get bad feelings when my H is mean or unreasonable.


It IS his fault.

You don't own your feelings. You have bad feelings when HE. I am not saying he is a prince among men. I am not saying he isn't. I have no idea. His point of view is impossible to imagine from here. But I am saying you don't really want to own your own feelings and insecurity, harpiness. You SAY you do. But you don't. 

You don't get to define reasonable and unreasonable for him. If the problem is really HIM being unreasonable and mean then the answer is to leave HIM. And that may well be a big part of the problem. 

In the meantime, you are doing yourself a disservice (and obviously him) by being this uptight over his every utterance. One has to imagine that you guys used to actually like to be together. You got married. 




> My H is mean and unreasonable when we argue.
> We argue when one of us isn't happy with something.
> Usually that person is me---yes, I see the connection and root cause.
> Yes, I see it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yah. Sorry. I don't think you do. 

I remember the pain in the ass woman who did this to me. Bless her heart. I thank her every day for my marriage! Ok there are days I don't remember.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MEM: mutual attraction. Mutual occasion of initiating, maybe him a little more.
But I'm more often the rejector---though only about 1/3 the time.

Vt.....
Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Thank you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It continues to by my strong hope that things work for you the way that is best for you. Even if I sound like a huge b!tch.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> It continues to by my strong hope that things work for you the way that is best for you. Even if I sound like a huge b!tch.


What I'm thanking you for, is saying exactly what HE says to me (to a degree).
Because when he says it, I don't trust it, I feel like he's being self-serving, unreasonable, doesn't want to own his part, etc
but when I hear it from someone else, it gives it more credence and helps me own my own part.
After all, wth is your incentive for telling me to get over myself, know what I mean?!?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rsted222 (Jan 27, 2011)

You can blame this one on the booze, but let him know he was a jackass. I don't really think when you're drunk you say what you mean, I just think you can be mean when you're mad/drunk.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

P.S. He ordered a metal detector online so we can look for my ring in the snow. It made me smile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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