# Literally weeks of silence during which he will not talk to me...



## Suffering In Silence (Apr 22, 2012)

Truly, I am at my wits end. I have tried everything I know how to do during our 23 years of marriage...faith based spiritual retreats, four different "stints" with marriage councelors, I've had him read books, I've cried my eyes out, begged on my hands and knees, and once tried giving him a taste of his own medicine by refusing to talk to him. That memorable occassion lasted for six weeks thru the Christmas holiday season back in 1998. As in all cases it is I who must "break" the silence, pretending nothing has happened in order for things to go back to a senblence of normalcy. Nothing ever gets resolved, and the pattern repeats, on average about twice a year.
What you may ask, precipitates the silences? They are ALWAYS preceeded by my refusal to bear the cronically abusive, disrespectful, disdainful, hostility he displays when speaking to me. I would never use the words or tone of voice he uses even to respond to such innocuous questions like "...What would you like for dinner?" It is a rare and wonderful treat when he speaks to me in a civil tone! Our marriage has lasted as long as it has ONLY because I have learned to ignore the verbal abuse. But the truth is I am suffering greatly. I feel so lonely and alone, so helpless and hopeless. Financially, divorce is not an option. I can't fix him.
I must somehow fix me before all self respect is gone...


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

Six weeks?? He sounds like an immature bully. I'm glad he's not mine, I'd end up in prison. 
You've allowed him to treat you this way for 23 years. Why? Was he always this abusive??


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## Ittakestwo (Apr 22, 2012)

I am so sorry for your pain and the loneliness of living in silence with the man that you are supposed to be connected to and living life together, with. 

You most definitely must set some boundaries. When he talks to you with 'that tone' decide if you are going to leave the room with or without a response to his crassness. 

Sometimes people say things to get a 'rise' out of others... 


As I have found and it has been stated many times... people treat us the way we allow them to treat us.

I don't have an abusive husband verbally or otherwise... but there are things that he does or doesn't do because I have allowed it... 

then we get angry at them because they keep doing it... "insanity"

We cannot change our spouses... only ourselves but this is easier said than done. if I had it all together I wouldn't be posting on this forum.

I understand your longing to be in a loving relationship with your husband... isn't that the way it was supposed to be?!

I have also attempted more things than I can count spiritually based to work on my marriage.... but all my attempts so far included some partial agenda to change my husband and much to my dismay... I don't have any power to make him change... 

I must do what I need to do to keep my self respect, a postive prouctive life and if it means to do it without him (even if we remain married) then so be it... I want to embrace life, don't you? 

When we answer for our lives we cannot use our husbands as excuses as to why we didn't get up each day and live with purpose. It is sad and I don't think that God intended for marriage to make us happy and I can say if that's the case HE has done his job! But i also believe that God intended on two people uniting and learning to love and cherish and work life out along the way - TOGETHER... we are only responsible for ourselves... it hurts, it sucks... but it is the truth. 

I am in no way wanting this to come across as 'harsh' believe me as I type it I am preaching to myself... and I don't like it.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Suffering In Silence said:


> Nothing ever gets resolved, and the pattern repeats, on average about twice a year. ... cronically abusive, disrespectful, disdainful, hostility he displays when speaking to me. It is a rare and wonderful treat when he speaks to me in a civil tone! I can't fix him.
> I must somehow fix me before all self respect is gone...


I don't know the details of your marriage. Was you husband verbally abusive when you were dating? Have you worked during the course of your marriage? Divorce may not be financially viable at this point in time, but if you can get a free consultation with a family law attorney, you might be able to get out of this. You have a marriage that has lasted over 23 years, and the law considers that a marriage of "longevity."

Yes, you are absolutely correct that you cannot fix him. Do you have friends you can visit? Places you can go? Chronic abuse wears down our self-esteem. You need to be around people who treat you well and speak to you with respect.

Does your husband speak to others in a disrespectful manner, or does he save all his "lovely behavior" just for you?


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

So sorry to read your story... i don't know how you have endured this for so long.

Being given the silent treatment is a deal breaker in relationships to me... my mother used to do it when I was a kid and I've had one friend who was a sulker. You were sent to the doghouse and ignored and told not to cotact her until she decided to be 'nice' again. 
She came to my dance class for an entire term and stood in front of me but refused to speak to me or look at me...it was bizarre.. she was in her 40's not a kid.

Mum has grown up :smthumbup: and stopped doing it now ( after being confronted by my sister and I as adults) but the friend had so little in the way of communication skills and this was her 'default' position after any disagreement that I ended the friendship and told her not to come back to class next term.

It's an immature power play, your being punished... only YOU can stop him doing it to you. These people feel great anger and don't know what to do with it.

Is this how he grew up? Both of the people I knew who did this had parent/s who did it so it was how they learnt to deal with conflict..

Not sure if your man can grow up and learn some new skills...my mum did and she was no spring chicken at the time.
I guess it all comes down to how much he wants to save his marriage and just be a better man.

all the best.


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## Suffering In Silence (Apr 22, 2012)

I am just blown away by the gererousity of spirit and compassion that leads folks like you to take the time and effort to consider my plight, and write down your thoughts How comforting this is to me! I have never before done such a thing as this (ie solicited advice from total strangers via a blog...is this what it's called?). Desperation drove to to it, but not without much trepidation. I'm so glad I took the plunge. The feelings of isolation are somewhat mitigated just knowing you're out there somewhere. I simply can't thank you enough.
Yes, Mrs. T. he's always been an immature bully, and I've allowed this behaviour to continue because of repeated promises to change. He says he loves me. He says he wants the marriage to work. He says he is willing to do whatever is necessary to stop his abusive behaviour. When it reaches a critical point, he will do whatever, read whatever, talk to whomever, go wherever I insist, and for a period of several months, his attitude will improve. But it never lasts. He invariably reverts back to a sullen vicious anger as Waiwera so wisely diserned. Yes, he came from a very troubled background. Yes, he simply cannot apologize and make things right with me. That has ALWAYS been out of the question with him. So he uses this immature power play/avoidance mechanism. He stays "in control" and I suffer in silence as he will not allow any resolution, any satisfaction, any completion. 
Prodigal in addition to giving good advise, asks if he reserves this behaviour for me alone. Other than his family of origin, all of whom are now deceased, yes, I alone am the recipient of his lovely behaviour. Everyone else see him as helpful, easy going, quiet, a man of few words. He is a retired career military officer, and in his defense I must say that he is a good provider, dependable, does not drink or run around, is very handy anound the house, and we have many of the same beliefs and values. This is a second marriage for us both. We are in our mid 60's. 
The thought of fighting this same fight (and losing) just defeats me, while the thought of starting out again...alone...at my age (I have no children, no close relatives) horrifies me.
I just don't know or understand how to be married to someone who won't connect with me in any way that feeds my soul.


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## lucina (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh my gosh this is almost my life. With the exception that he never apologizes or feels wrong. It’s always my fault. After 27 years I started standing up for myself which has made our marriage a true living hell.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SIS, the behaviors you describe -- verbal abuse, blame-shifting, icy silence, and very controlling actions -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Only a professional can determine whether your H's BPD traits are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. 

Yet, for the purposes of deciding whether your H can sustain a marriage, you don't need to know whether his traits meet the diagnostic threshold. Even when those traits fall well short of that threshold, they can make your life miserable and destroy a marriage. Moreover, strong BPD traits are easy to identify when occurring in a man you've been married to for 23 years. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about behaviors such as verbal abuse, icy silence, and always having to be "right." 

Significantly, I don't know whether he is a BPDer (i.e.,whether he has most BPD traits at a strong level). I am confident, however, that you can spot the red flags (i.e., strong occurrences of BPD traits) if you take time to read about them. I therefore suggest that, if you are still reluctant to walk away from him, you read about BPD traits so you know how to recognize the danger signs.


> [Silences] are ALWAYS preceeded by my refusal to bear the cronically abusive, disrespectful, disdainful, hostility he displays when speaking to me.


Verbal abuse is one of the hallmarks of having strong BPD traits. It occurs because BPDers carry enormous anger inside them, right under the skin, since early childhood. You therefore do not have to do anything to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing to TRIGGER the anger that is always there. 

If your H is a BPDer, there are two things that will trigger his anger. One is anything that triggers his great fear of abandonment. The other is anything that is very intimate, which will trigger his great fear of engulfment (i.e., of being suffocated by your strong personality).


> He says he loves me. He says he wants the marriage to work.


If he is a BPDer, he likely does love you. But there are two problems with the way he loves. One is that he loves only in the very immature way that a four year old is able to love, where "I love you" largely means "I desperately need you to love ME." Yes, it is real love. But it is not the mature form of love that is essential for sustaining an adult relationship.

The second problem with his love, if he is a BPDer, is that he COMPLETELY loses touch with it very often. Because BPDers cannot tolerate experiencing strong mixed feelings, they "split off" the other feelings so they are in touch only with one set of feelings at a time.

This likely is why your H can flip -- in ten seconds -- from adoring you
to devaluing you (or even to hating you). And then he can flip back again just as quickly. This all-or-nothing type thinking is called "black-white thinking." It is most evident in the way a BPDer categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad." Moreover, he will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in only ten seconds -- based solely on an innocuous remark or minor infraction.

B-W thinking occurs in BPDers because they are extremely uncomfortable with ambiguities and mixed feelings and with cognitive dissonance (where one part of your mind believes something contradicting what is believed in another part of your mind). A BPDer therefore shoehorns his perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations into a B-W dichotomy -- not seeing that real people live in the gray area in between those polar extremes. 

This is why strong BPD traits are said to constitute a "thought distortion." This is true to a lesser degree, by the way, for all of us. Every time you get intense feelings (e.g., infatuation or anger) your judgement of other peoples' intentions becomes distorted -- which is you try to wait until you cool off before making decisions or taking actions.


> He says he is willing to do whatever is necessary to stop his abusive behaviour. When it reaches a critical point, he will do whatever, read whatever, talk to whomever, go wherever I insist, and for a period of several months, his attitude will improve. But it never lasts.


On rare occasions -- when their worlds are crashing down on them -- BPDers will be forced to confront some of the problems they are creating. These unusual times are called "moments of clarity." When this happens, a BPDer typically will promise to fix himself and to stop the abuse. And he likely will be very sincere when doing so. Yet, because a BPDer is emotionally unstable, anything he promises at one point in time means absolutely nothing at another.


> I have tried everything ...faith based spiritual retreats, four different "stints" with marriage counselors.


If your H is a BPDer, his emotional problems are far more severe and difficult to treat than a simple lack of communication skills. Until that damage to his emotional core is treated -- likely requiring years of weekly meetings -- going to MC likely will be a total waste of money. Certainly, that was my experience. I took my BPDer exW to two MCs and accomplished nothing.


> The pattern [of silent treatment] repeats, on average about twice a year.


Typically, a BPDer does not give you the silent treatment. The vast majority of the time he will direct his anger outward in the form of temper tantrums and verbal abuse -- behavior that is called "acting out." Far less frequently, however, a BPDer will turn his anger inward when his anger is triggered. During those times, he will "act in." 

This does not mean you escape punishment, however. Rather, you will be punished with passive aggressive remarks or icy withdrawal and silence. It therefore is common for a BPDer to flip back and forth between acting out and acting in -- but the former is far more likely to occur. (A small portion of BPDers -- called "quiet borderlines" -- predominantly do the "acting in.")


> He came from a very troubled background.


In a recent large scale study (pub. 2008), 70% of the BPD sufferers reported having been abused or abandoned in childhood. The current theory is that such abuse and/or genetics can combine to stunt the child's emotional development, freezing it at about age four.


> So he uses this immature power play/avoidance mechanism.


If he is a BPDer, "immature" is an understatement. It would be more accurate to say he has the emotional development of a four year old. This would explain, then, why you are seeing the temper tantrums, self-centeredness, lack of empathy, and hissy fits so characteristic of a young child.


> Yes, he simply cannot apologize and make things right with me. That has ALWAYS been out of the question with him.


Except for the rare "moments of clarity" mentioned above, BPDers are notorious for refusing to accept responsibility or admit to mistakes. One reason for this, which I discussed above, is the black-white thinking. Significantly, a BPDer applies such distorted thinking to himself as well as to others. This means that, if he is a little bit bad, he is "all bad" because -- for him -- the gray area does not exist. He therefore suffers great shame and pain when recognizing he has made a mistake.

This is one reason a BPDer keeps a death grip on his false self image of being "The Victim," always The Victim. Your primary role in the marriage, then, is to keep "validating" that false image by serving as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of every misfortune to befall him.


> I alone am the recipient of his lovely behaviour. Everyone else see him as helpful, easy going, quiet, a man of few words.


High functioning BPDers -- as the vast majority of BPDers are -- usually interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and complete strangers. The reason is that NONE of those people can easily trigger his two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned. And there is no intimacy to cause engulfment. Heaven help those folks, however, if they ever make the mistake of drawing close to him.

This is why it is common to see a high functioning BPDer be generous and caring all day long to total strangers -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love him. And this is why high functioning BPDers often can succeed in demanding professions such as being doctors, nurses, and social workers.


> He is a good provider, dependable, does not drink or run around, is very handy around the house, and we have many of the same beliefs and values.


If he is a BPDer, this is not surprising. As a group, BPDers have the same morals and high standards of any other major group of people. The BPDer's problem is not being immoral but, rather, emotionally immature and unstable.


> He stays "in control" and I suffer in silence.


Due to his great fear of abandonment, a BPDer typically is extremely controlling. But he will project that attitude onto his mate, believing that SHE is the controlling one.


> He will not allow any resolution, any satisfaction, any completion.


It is often said that a BPDer "is not interested in finding solutions but, rather, only in creating drama." This occurs largely because -- after suffering a childhood full of invalidation of his feelings -- he has a great need to be validated. Moreover, he wants to be validated as "The Victim." His self image is so fragile that "being the victim" may be the closest thing to a self image that he has -- never mind that it is a false self image.


> I can't fix him. I must somehow fix me before all self respect is gone...


I'm glad you see that so clearly, SIS. Caregivers like us naturally become so focused on fixing the loved one that we easily lose ourselves, i.e., have difficulty telling where our problems leave off and where our mate's problems begin. This is why I found it so helpful to acquire an understanding of my exW's BPD issues. By understanding her better, I was able -- through subtraction -- to get a clearer view of my own issues (codependency). 

I therefore suggest you read more about the BPD traits to see if your H exhibits most of them at a moderate or strong level. An easy place to start reading is my description of them in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, SIS.


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## eowyn (Mar 22, 2012)

Suffering In Silence said:


> I am just blown away by the gererousity of spirit and compassion that leads folks like you to take the time and effort to consider my plight, and write down your thoughts How comforting this is to me! I have never before done such a thing as this (ie solicited advice from total strangers via a blog...is this what it's called?). Desperation drove to to it, but not without much trepidation. I'm so glad I took the plunge. The feelings of isolation are somewhat mitigated just knowing you're out there somewhere. I simply can't thank you enough.
> Yes, Mrs. T. he's always been an immature bully, and I've allowed this behaviour to continue because of repeated promises to change. He says he loves me. He says he wants the marriage to work. He says he is willing to do whatever is necessary to stop his abusive behaviour. When it reaches a critical point, he will do whatever, read whatever, talk to whomever, go wherever I insist, and for a period of several months, his attitude will improve. But it never lasts. He invariably reverts back to a sullen vicious anger as Waiwera so wisely diserned. Yes, he came from a very troubled background. Yes, he simply cannot apologize and make things right with me. That has ALWAYS been out of the question with him. So he uses this immature power play/avoidance mechanism. He stays "in control" and I suffer in silence as he will not allow any resolution, any satisfaction, any completion.
> Prodigal in addition to giving good advise, asks if he reserves this behaviour for me alone. Other than his family of origin, all of whom are now deceased, yes, I alone am the recipient of his lovely behaviour. Everyone else see him as helpful, easy going, quiet, a man of few words. He is a retired career military officer, and in his defense I must say that he is a good provider, dependable, does not drink or run around, is very handy anound the house, and we have many of the same beliefs and values. This is a second marriage for us both. We are in our mid 60's.
> The thought of fighting this same fight (and losing) just defeats me, while the thought of starting out again...alone...at my age (I have no children, no close relatives) horrifies me.
> I just don't know or understand how to be married to someone who won't connect with me in any way that feeds my soul.


You seem to be a nice lady and I hope things get better for you and your husband. I tried to break down your problem in three parts while trying to understand your situation..

1. Anger Management for your Husband (Root Cause)
Try to handle your husband's anger without getting emotionally affected as much possible. My husband had the habit of getting angry as well. I figured that if I let it hurt me things get worse. So I am trying to "anger-proof" myself and trying to analyze it and how we can get rid of this anger once and for all. Do not feel 'belittled' when he gets angry.. on the contrary think that he needs your help in overcoming this bad habit. This is nothing different than smoking or drinking. I thought about the underlying sequence (point of irritation >> hasty conclusions >> outburst), put that into a slide/diagram and showed it to him. Also talked to him calmly about the causes and consequences if this is not fixed. He agreed with it and with his consent I am going to laminate the diagram/summary of our discussion and pin it somewhere so he remembers it sub-consciously and makes the change gradually. So, what I am saying is.. appoint yourself as his anger management counselor and help him deal and fix the issue with your guidance. That will also give you a sense of empowerment.

2. Silent Treatment from your Husband (Behavior) 
If you think you are not at fault and he goes silent on you, make sure you do not lower your position in anyway by apologizing, being soft, trying to make him talk etc. This will not give him a chance to realize his mistake. On the contrary he will think that you are at fault and will go deeper into silence. Again, when things are cool tell him how it affects you. Come up with a trigger word (a funny one if possible) and have an agreement that when you say that trigger word he needs to come out of his kingdom of silence and give you a nice warm hug. If he doesn't do that there will be a punishment. Try to handle this with humor if possible. Healthy Humor (i don't mean sarcasm) can sometimes make complicated things much easier than they would otherwise be. 

3. Taking care of yourself and your self esteem (Effect)
Jot down a list of things you can do in general that can keep you happy - books, hobby, pets, friends, movies, walks, praying. The most important thing is to develop a perception where your husband's anger or silence do not affect you at all.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Suffering--my heart goes out to you and I am sorry for your pain.

This is emotional abuse, as you well know. You've also said he's verbally abusive and a bully. Not surprising. 

You say that financially, divorce isn't an option--but honey, where there is a will, there is a way.

If you choose to stay, then all you can do is tolerate his abuse. But you absolutely have a choice in the matter.

The "sulking" threads are VERY near and dear to me because my ex husband was a MASTER sulker. He also would go days/weeks w/o saying a word to me. The last time it lasted it did for 1 1/2 months before I moved out. He would do this every 2 months, like on a cycle. It was very frustrating, especially sinc eI told him how it hurt my feelings and he kept the charade up.

You cannot change him or fix him. You can only decide what is best for you.

After 23 years of being this way to you, he's not going to change.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ittakestwo said:


> You most definitely must set some boundaries. When he talks to you with 'that tone' decide if you are going to leave the room with or without a response to his crassness.
> 
> Sometimes people say things to get a 'rise' out of others...


This is fine and great to remove yourself from their presence, but it doesn't do anything with re: to the other person continuing to emotionally abuser and sulk. I know. I've been there. 

Until someone has lived the silent torture, you have NO clue how much it fvcks with your head. It makes you feel like a ghost in your own house and you start thinking something is wrong with you.

Thing is, it's not normal or healthy behavior. A loving partner would never do this to someone they care about. OP, think about that--would you EVER treat him the way he does you or sulk as long as he does? 6 weeks is a LONG time. UGH. I feel for you! 

Do you have kids? If you do, they are seeing this also and that is not a good thing.

Emotional abusers generally get way worse over time.


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## Suffering In Silence (Apr 22, 2012)

Dear "Uptown", et al,
Again I am amazed at the level of care and concern you have all shown me. It has quite taken my breath away. I truly never expected the quantity and quality of input you've given me. Your suggestion that BPD may be playing a role in my husbands abusive behaviour has opened my eyes in so many ways that I am literally reeling. Just knowing that there is a name, an identity, a recognizable set of parameters for what has been, for nearly a quarter of a century, a mish-mash of bizarre, frightening, utterly incomprehensible moods, cruelties, hostilities, and withdrawals that I've suffered at his hands is enormously relieving. It's not me! I did not "make" him behave this way.
Deep in my heart of hearts I guess I've known this for some time, however the nurturing, encouraging, fixer in me kept hoping to help him learn how to cope better with his anger by channelling it in more constructive ways. As I mentioned in previous posts, when his irrational anger manifested in a constant tone of voice that was consistantly hostile, disrespectful, derogatory, dismissive of my needs, and generally abusive, and I threatened to leave unless things changed, he would do whatever it was that I suggested. And so thru the years we've had Pastoral Christian marriage counceling, marriage retreats, read numerous "communication" books (and workbooks), been "treated" by several marriage councelors, etc, etc, which were "successful" in that he always acknowledged that I did nothing to deserve the treatment he peppered me with, and that he would do better in the future by practising some little formula like "...think befor you speak," or go for a walk if you feel yourself losing control.
All of this completely misses the point.
So, of course, the pattern keeps repeating.
And so too, thanks to you "Uptown" I have much to weigh and consider.
It has been 8 days since he has last spoken to me. In that time, instead of tearfully sinking into a depression and taking to my bed, which is my too frequentl way of (not) coping, I have determined hold on and LIVE. I've sought help from you...a very major (and scary) step. Based on your insightful and caring response, I was strengthened and encouraged. I started reading reading the "strings" and books you suggested, which led me to other web sited and books. I've made an appointment with (and already seen) a marriage councelor who my H and I saw together a couple of years ago. I'm not sure she will be helpful, but she's a start. She is a L.C.S.W., L.M.F.T.
I told her what I discovered via this website, and that is was both a great relief and a great vexation; a relief to know my H's behaviour was not my fault, and a vexation because I clearly needed help with my codependant personality.
As we talked, my doubts about her knowledge of both my situation and of the BPD grew as she had no memory of, nor had she taken the time to research previous meetings with my H and I.
Which is why I must prevail upon you to clarify a few issues that puzzle me after having read thumbnail descriptions of the nine signs (of which 5 must be present for a positive primary I.D.). Yes, my H's anger is always there, just under his skin. It will flash out with absolutly no provocation. He does not scream at me or call me names or threaten me outright. However, in every way a person can be (tone of voice, body language, choice of words) he is hostile, provacative, resentful, disrespectful, vicious, rude, surly, obnoxious, infantile. He does not tolerate criticism well, especially from me, and he reads almost everything I say as a criticism. For example, this latest "silence" began last week as we drove to dinner after seeing a Doctor. I had asked the Dr. an important question that was ( I felt) answered in a very round about way. I asked my H "...Do you think Doc. understood my question, Sweetie?"
He responded in a bit more than the usual gruff, irritable manner with "...Yessss! He understood you. He answered your question! "Well, I was just wondering" said I. It seemed like he was answering a slightly different question. Just wanted to check with you." "...Well I told you!!! Now stop asking me the same question three times when I already told you, damn it!!!
I believe that after that I said "I'm sorry for asking such a stupid question", which was of course facitious. Those were the last words spoken, and if history repeats itself, it will be I that "breaks the silence" at which point things will go back to the way they were. The incident will not be brought up, just "back pocketed" like all the thousands of previous "incidents." Nothing ever gets resolved...and it's choking me...
But the worst part, the part I truly don't understand, and dosen't seem to fit the picture of a "typical" BPD is this; if I don't "break the silence" WE MAY NEVER SPEAK AGAIN! He seems perfectly content to live with me under the same roof and have nothing to do with me whatsoever. As I've said previously, the longest I've been able to hold out was about six weeks during the Christmas Holidays a dozen or so years ago. I suffered greatly. The memory of it brings tears even now. He, on the other hand, seemed perfectly fine with the arrangement.
As I write these words, such anger is whelling up in me that my hands are shaking! Anger at him for torturing me, and more...at myself for allowing it.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

This is going to sound pretty unconventional, so ignore it if you choose, but first let me explain why I propose what I'm going to. 

First, he is extremely abusive to you emotionally. Second, you're fairly codependent to have put up with it for so long. Third, you said divorce isn't a financial option, but sounded like this is something you'd consider. Fourth, counseling, retreats, etc. rarely work in situations like yours. Last, he says he will "do anything" to make things better, but as you've seen it's merely a ploy to enable him to get back into control once he feels he has lost control. 

The next time he agrees to "fix" things, try this: Tell him you will be fining him each day that he goes without speaking at least one nice or neutral thing to you, maybe $5 or $10. Make it an amount that will hurt, but not break his back. Explain to him that each time he "buys" his silence, you'll be better able to accept it because you'll feel like you're providing him a service and that you'll be regarding this as your new job. Instead of feeling hurt and sorry for yourself, you'll be able to appreciate what he's doing FOR you with his silences. 

Do NOT back down - he said he would do whatever it takes, right? Don't accept excuses, insults, or threats to let him avoid agreeing to do it, and once he has agreed, MAKE it happen. If you have a joint credit card, you can calmly explain that if he doesn't pay the fine, you will use the credit card for that amount. Make this clear during your initial discussion where you set the groundwork for this arrangement. 

Even though this is highly unconventional, I have used this method with two people who routinely lied - a behavior I feel is disrespectful and hurtful - and had EXCELLENT results both times. 

For your situation, I think it will be especially effective: 

- He will be forced to choose between silence and keeping the bills paid. It sounds like he is probably concerned with how others see him, so I'm thinking he'll opt to pay the bills. (You won't be coming to the rescue with the money you get, by the way. You'll be putting it away to afford a divorce if he doesn't change his ways. You can choose whether to let him know this or not.)
- It tangibly demonstrates to him that his bad choice hurts him, too. The madder he gets, the more he pays. He's a big boy and can figure out how to do something different if he doesn't want to pay.
- You will feel better about it when he elects not to talk. After all, you *are* providing him a service, and getting paid for it. You've made a choice again and again to tolerate this behavior. You will have turned that bad choice into one that has an actual measurable value. 
- If the behavior continues, you will be able to put away enough to leave. (By the way, there are resources that can help you get out on your own even if you have no job or savings. Also, what others said about consulting an attorney is good advice, because you can still get spousal support in most states.)

As I said, feel free to chalk this up as a "crazy" idea if you want to. I know it has worked for me when there were ongoing power struggles that could be pinpointed to a single behavior, but it's certainly not for everyone.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> The next time he agrees to "fix" things, try this: Tell him you will be fining him each day that he goes without speaking at least one nice or neutral thing to you, maybe $5 or $10. Make it an amount that will hurt, but not break his back. Explain to him that each time he "buys" his silence, you'll be better able to accept it because you'll feel like you're providing him a service and that you'll be regarding this as your new job. Instead of feeling hurt and sorry for yourself, you'll be able to appreciate what he's doing FOR you with his silences.


This would never work with an emotional abuser like the one she writes about. Someone that can blank you for almost 2 months does. not. care. They just continue to ignore and ignore until they feel they are ready to talk again. Her feelings don't meet d!ck to him. If they did, he wouldn't be ignoring her for 2 months.

Suffering, you have to decide whether you will tolerate this or not. If you do, then you have to just learn to live with it. You cannot change him at all or make him do anything. The sulking problem is his issue, not yours. 

Most people who habitually use the silent treatment, like your husband, do not stop this behavior. That is why counselling hasn't worked. Because he doesn't care about it or the way it's effecting you. It's his way or the highway.

My ex never ever changed and would sulk, just like yours. It drives you absolutely bonkers. He even cheated & still NOTHING hurt me more than him blanking me all the time, randomly, at times w/o provocation, for weeks on end. It's so invalidating when someone does that to you. Especially after you've told them repeatedly how much it hurts and they are aware of that fact and continue to do it.

It's his way or no way.

It's no way to live.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I respectfully disagree, for the reasons in bold inserted into your quoted post: 



Jellybeans said:


> This would never work with an emotional abuser like the one she writes about. Someone that can blank you for almost 2 months does. not. care. They just continue to ignore and ignore until they feel they are ready to talk again. Her feelings don't meet d!ck to him. If they did, he wouldn't be ignoring her for 2 months. *That's exactly why it will work. It stops being about her feelings, so he won't feel like she is "imposing" on him with her pouting, pleading, etc. She will take back that power, and *that* will absolutely mean something to him because he does care about himself and having things his way. The point about her saying it will help her not be so hurt is *her* reason, but he'll be backed into a corner because he must keep up a charade of caring.*
> 
> Suffering, you have to decide whether you will tolerate this or not. If you do, then you have to just learn to live with it. You cannot change him at all or make him do anything. The sulking problem is his issue, not yours.
> 
> ...


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

others have given you good advice, all I will say is there's nothing I hate more than a sulker, he sounds like an immature d*ck who doesn't give a toss about you or your feelings. All about him and trying to make you feel like sh*t

it's easy to say 'ditch him' but you deserve a man who treats you with respect. I used to have a boyfriend who did this - thank god I dumped him because apparently he's still like it with his wife now 15 years later


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## Suffering In Silence (Apr 22, 2012)

Thank you both KB & JB! KB You've offered a very unique proposition in "fining" my H for each day of silence. I must think hard about this because, at first glance it seems like it may up the anti so to speak, causing him to cancel credit cards, and hide money. He keeps me in the dark about our financial situation as it is, although I do know we have significant debt. By the way, he too is a career military officer, now retired.
JB, you seem to know EXACTLY what it's like to be married to someone who is not married to you except in a legal sense. The kind of pain people like us have live with (or are living with) is beyond words to adaquatly describe. Physical pain will end either via a cure, a pill, a level of adaptation, or death; but this kind of emotional pain is bottomless. I'm in a very deep hole, but I'm trusting there's enough of me left to live whats left of my 65 year old life in something less than misery.
Again, thanks beyond words to say, for your help.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Suffering In Silence said:


> He keeps me in the dark about our financial situation as it is, although I do know we have significant debt. By the way, he too is a career military officer, now retired.


I was afraid you'd say that. If you can't do something that breaks the pattern, then that attorney consultation may be the way to go, or else start attending a Coda (Codependents Anonymous) group to get shared experience, strength, and hope from people who have lived with codependence issues. It might feel awkward for you though, since most of these issues stem from alcohol and drug abuse rather than emotional abuse in relationships.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SIS, I am glad to hear you found the BPD information helpful.


Suffering In Silence said:


> Just knowing that there is a name, an identity, a recognizable set of parameters ... is enormously relieving. It's not me!


Yes, it is so relieving to find validation that we are not going crazy. Significantly, of the ten PDs, BPD is the ONLY ONE that is notorious for making the _partners and spouses_ feel like they may be losing their minds. This is why the tag lines at BPD websites targeted to the spouses are expressions like "Welcome to Oz."


> When...I threatened to leave unless things changed, he would do whatever it was that I suggested.


That quick flip-flop is evidence that your H has control over his behavior when he has an incentive to do so -- even when he may appear to be "out of control."


> I have determined hold on and LIVE. I've sought help from you...a very major (and scary) step.


SIS, I applaud your decision to take charge of your life and to reach out for help for _yourself_ -- an action that is especially difficult for caregiver/fixers like us.


> I made an appointment with (and already seen) a marriage councelor ...As we talked, my doubts about her knowledge of both my situation and of the BPD grew....


As I said, my experience is that MCs are a waste of time and money when one spouse has strong traits of a PD. While I realize you are trying to limit the cost, I strongly encourage you to see a clinical psychologist -- for at least a visit or two on your own -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with.


> My H... does not scream at me or call me names or threaten me outright. However, in every way a person can be (tone of voice, body language, choice of words) he is hostile, provacative, resentful, disrespectful, vicious, rude, surly, obnoxious, infantile.


As I said earlier, you are describing the cold, punishing behavior of quiet BPDers. A.J. Mahari, who calls them "quiet borderlines," describes their passive-aggressive behavior at Borderline Personality - The Quiet Acting In Borderline and The Silent Treatment - Nons - Borderline Personality Disorder Inside Out. 

Therapist Shari Schreiber, who calls them "waif borderlines," describes this behavior at BORDERLINE WAIFS AND UNSUNG HEROES; Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved.. Of these two articles, the Mahari article seems closer to what you are describing.


> But the worst part, the part I truly don't understand, and dosn't seem to fit the picture of a "typical" BPD is this; if I don't "break the silence" WE MAY NEVER SPEAK AGAIN! He seems perfectly content to live with me under the same roof and have nothing to do with me whatsoever.


I agree with you that this trait -- though partly explained by the "quiet borderline" literature -- is too extreme to be explained by BPD traits alone. Please keep in mind, however, that if your H has strong traits of BPD, he likely has strong traits of another disorder too. I say this because studies have found that most folks suffering from one PD also suffer from one or two others also. 

This happens because PDs do not constitute separate diseases. Indeed, they are not diseases at all. Instead, they are only groups of dysfunctional behavioral symptoms that therapists have often observed occurring together in their patients.

One reason I am encouraging you to see a psychologist is that he can tell you whether your H has strong traits of any other PDs in addition to those of BPD. If I had to guess, I would say AvPD (Avoidant PD) and "secret schizoid" (i.e., secret SPD) are likely candidates. Secret schizoids socialize quite well with casual friends and business associates but, when they go home, they like to withdraw into themselves and be alone. In contrast, avoidants have a strong desire for a close relationship but have an excessive preoccupation with being criticized or rejected.

I caution that all PDs are _spectrum_ disorders. This means that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all traits of every PD, albeit at a low level if they are emotionally healthy. At issue, then, is NOT whether your H has BPD, AvPD, and SPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether he has any of those traits at moderate to strong levels -- i.e., at levels where the traits are seriously undermining his ability to attach to you and be empathetic.


> As I write these words, such anger is whelling up in me that my hands are shaking! Anger at him for torturing me, and more...at myself for allowing it.


Again, you are demonstrating remarkable insight and self awareness. As you see so clearly, the toxicity in your marriage is not something HE is doing to you. Rather, it is something you BOTH are doing to each other. That is, it takes TWO willing partners to sustain a toxic marriage for 23 years. His contribution to the toxicity is easy to see. 

Yours is much more difficult to see because it is your "enabling" behavior -- i.e., your enabling him to continue behaving like a spoiled four year old and GET AWAY WITH IT -- that is harming him. It is harmful because, when you keep protecting him from suffering the logical consequences of his own dysfunctional behavior, you are preventing him from having an opportunity to confront his issues and learn how to manage them.

The way to stop enabling his dysfunctional behavior is to stop walking on eggshells, i.e., put an end to hiding your true self when you are around him. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the partners) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._

I suggest that, in addition to reading that book, you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com, which is the largest and most active BPD website I've found that is targeted solely to "Non" partners and ex-partners like us. Your problems with your H are so common that BPDfamily attracts about 20 new members every day and already has eight message boards. The board that seems most appropriate for you likely is the "Staying" board. 

And, while you are there, please check out the insightful "articles" pages. My favorite is Article 9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York. Another article (#13) addresses a topic close to our hearts (codependency). Take care, SIS.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

I live with a BPDer and she also posts here. I read a book called I hate you- Don't Leave me. It helped me understand a little of what runs around in her head.


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## domen (Apr 26, 2012)

Right now I am going through something very similar. It feels good to know that I am not the only one living in this weird universe. 
My husband and I have been together for 9 years. We have gone a few days without talking but this last year something changed. He goes weeks without talking to me. This past Christmas he went a whole month. It was strange Christmas morning being ignored by my own husband on a holiday when you are supposed to be with people who love you the most.

Right now its been two weeks since we've talked. I was seeing a counselor a few years ago and have been debating going back. I feel like I can't change him and getting counseling for myself may not change his behaviors. I can say that in the past he told me to do things for myself and things that I want to do . 
I just posted about this a few days ago and reading your story sounds very similar to mine. My husband doesnt apologize either. I am to blame for everything. I feel like we are constantly going in circles. I have been getting support from my friends. I am trying to live for myself more. I don't know what else to do .
I wish you the best. Thanks for writing on here. You give me comfort.


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## Suffering In Silence (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm glad that I'm some comfort to you, although it's one heck of a price we pay for so small a reward. But if my pain, and the telling of my story brings a measure of comfort to others knowing they're not alone, then it's not altogether in vain.
In fact, I too am comforted in knowing that others are in a similar position. In fact I find myself wishing that we could talk at length, in greater detail about the genesis of this particular bizarre behavior began, how it plays out in your everyday life, how you cope...and dozens of other questions.
I've just finished reading "The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder" by Randi Kreger. I am about to start "Stop Walking on Eggshells" also by Ms. Kreger and Paul T Mason. I have learned a great deal about the disorder...but now have many questions needing answers. I do not want to put words in anyone's mouth but if you too have "suffered in (and from) silence imposed by your mate, a great deal of the advise offered in the above mentioned books, as well as referenced articles do not seem to apply because the other party simply will NOT engage at any level, raging or otherwise. I am dealing with a living, breathing WALL. Nothing seems to touch or move him...but yet he can be the most loving, attentive, and perceptive care taker to out 2 little dogs. He knows what they want and need before they do, and the only time I have seen him cry is when we've had to put down a pet.
I don't want to end the marriage, but I don't want to live like this either. The thought of living under the same roof with a "husband" who knows very well what little he needs to do to restore a level of peaceful co-existence (something as simple as "Let's talk" would do, while an actual apology would put me over the moon!), but who stubbornly refuses to do it, is just beyond my comprehension. He says I am the most important thing in his life, and his life is rich and full because of me (so say countless cards signed signed "Love you Always and Forever." 
How do I put up limits to this abuse? Yes, of course, I'm terribly codependant, aware of that, and working on my issues with a therapist. But in the meantime I'm living with a ghost who spends his days on the computer or watching TV in his den, who grabs whatever he finds in the pantry or fridge and takes it to his den to eat, who dosen't tell me about phone messages, and who comes and goes without telling me. Actually, I've taken to doing the same which is an extream departure from my usual behavior Normally I would tell him if I were going out to fetch the mail, but lately I've stayed away on two occasions from 8am till 10pm hoping to provoke some concern on his part. Nothing. I mostly drove around, sat on the beach and read, sat in my car and cried, drove around some more, cried some more. But the important thing is I didn't give into the ALMOST overwhelming urge to "break" the silence, which is the usual pattern. He knows the suffering his silence imposes, and he knows it will eventually break me and spare him having to do any of the "work" needed to fix himself and/or our relationship. This time I am vowing to stay strong. When I am home and know he can hear me, I make sure he hears me laughing and playing joyfully with the dogs, enjoying phone conversations with friends, enjoying one of my crafting hobbies. Inside I'm "SIS", but this time he must not see the usual pitiful, broken down, weak, powerless, sniveling women he's used to manipulating.
Could I be on to something?


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