# My wife is at a crossroads, I could use an outside perspective.



## ch123 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

Not sure how to proceed but I will give this a try. Me and my wife have been married for 15 years. We have 2 girls 5 and 7 years old. The last ten have been different. do to having kids, building a house and having it burn down after we just moved in. Then rebuilding and moving back in. All of which consumed about 7 years of our lives. The last three we have been living in the new house. 

During that time we grew apart because the kids slepted in our bed and I could not sleep in a crowded bed like this. This affected our love life dramatically. Basically making us roommates. Finally, my wife started to make the kids who are older now sleep in there own beds. This brought me back and made me feel like I could try and get close to my wife again.

So I started to reconcile with her on her birthday. Only to find out that there was some deep anger issues she had with me. I started to sleep in our bed again and we started sleeping together again. But something was very different. So said I felt like a stranger and got mad at me for thinking I could flip a switch and come back into her life. 

I really felt that something was weird about this so I ask her if she was seeing someone esle. She denied it! I did not believe her so I began to investigate her phone bills and found many text messages and calls to the same number. I put a track on her phone and in August caught her with a guy. Turned out to be a co-worker all hell broke loose. He is also married. 

That night we talked about this and she gave me the laundry list of issues she had with me. She agreed that we get therapy to help us work this out. the therapist discovered that my wife has deep anger and resentment towards me. And said that this was a crisis and we both will need to get individual therapist to work out our own issues while our couples therapist works on us.

It's December now, alot has happened during this rebuilding process. Many ups and down times. Like a roller coaster. My wife has been struggling to get close to me and for since August I have been instructed to give her space while she is sorting herself out. During this time we have been working hard we have fun together have taken trips. getting along great! Except for her continued distance. She is not distant all of the time but seems to not be as affectionate as I know she can be. She does not touch me during the day very much but will give me a kiss in the morning and night. She does say she loves me. Even received flowers on our anniversary with a very nice card. saying she loves me. This was a first in a very long time.

The problem is me too. I am having trust issues. Very hard to believe that someone could be nice to you to your face and be cheating on you at the same time.

My wife has discoved that she has some serious personal issues which go back to when she was a child and how she was raised. Basically raised in a household of fear. Anyway, I don't know why I can't just feel good about where we are at right now. Everything seems like we are on the mends. Even my wife says that now I am doing everything right and me feeling her pail is helping her heal.

So why don't I trust her. How do I stop feeling like she is going to come home one day and say we are done. 

We finally got together the other night and made love again. She was really uptight and nervous and told me she was. Said, she was nervous because it has been so long and she was emotional about it. Also some of the stress is brought on with us having to decide that we can not afford to live in this house and either have to walk away or short sale. This is not helping our relationship for sure. I'm stressed about it too.

Don't get me wrong my wife seems to be doing all the right things too. She even offered to take my mom shopping. This was new to me. My therapist says that she would be be doing any of these things if she was not planning to stay. But I cannot convince myself completely. 

I asked her that I would like to talk about how I could please her more in the bedroom. Since we have never had that discusion. But he said she is just not ready to do that right now. 

Let me know what you think about ll of this. I'm sorry it's not well written.

Thanks,
ch123


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

So, what has your wife done to ensure that the reconciliation is going in the right direction? Is she now transparent with her email, phone and social media? Does she tell you where she is going, i.e. account for her time when you two are apart. Most importantly, is she no longer in contact with the other man? Are you verifying that no contact is being enforced by her? 

Was this a physical affair or purely emotional? If you caught the 2 of them together, I'm assuming it went physical? You bear no responsibility for her cheating on you. That is 100% her. You two share the problems in the marriage up until the time she decided to engage in an EA/PA.

I know you two want to be great parents, but at the end of the day the two of you need to see each others as lovers first, not as mother/father of my children. If the reconciliation is going well, I hope the two of you learned this. You cannot let your kids get in the way of your marriage. Easier said than done, but you have to figure out a way.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Nothing in your post makes me think your wandering wife is remorseful. Nothing. Look, you can't chase her back. It's not enough for you to want her back. No remorse = no reconciliation. Based on that alone, unless I'm missing something, I don't see that you've even started the reconciliation process.

What "actions" has she done to demonstrate remorse? I'm not talking about tearful words. Actions....


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

1st things 1st, Is she still in contact with the co-worker? if so how do you know it ended?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

In terms of kids sleeping in the same bed I am in the same boat you were. I even tried to take over that part and teach them to sleep in their own rooms myself but my wife stopped it cause she couldn't take the crying...so they start out in one room and end up in ours by some time during the night pushing us both to the edges..

Mine hasn't cheated though but it does create a rift. Do not accept blame for it. And if I were you I would not accept childhood experience as an excuse for what she did either. Living in a house of fear? To some extent we all did so I don't know what that has to do with cheating on you.

Sorry for the sports analogy but it seems like she has you on the ropes when you should have her on the ropes. She is resentful of you for leaving the crowded bed? Or is there something more?


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## ch123 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hi Plan 9,

She is seeing a therapist every week. Also we are seeing a couples Therapist who says we are doing great. I have access to her phone records and facebook pages. so far nothing since Dday. But that's nothing because she knows I have access. She tells me everytime what she is doing. Un fortunately she is still in contact because she works for him. She has pulled me aside and told me she is working on a transfer to a different department and it should take about 6 months.
I brought the issue of her working with her ex in one of our Therapy sessions and the Therapist said it is not a big deal. To let the birdie fly so to speak. Let her workout her issues. My therapist has said the same thing. Also adding that everything she has seen and heard about our situtation does not point to my wife still being in the affair. In fact the therapist said that everything points to her working to get back to me.

It's just it all seems to good to be true. She was lied to me in the past so what is the difference now? She is doing all the little things to show me she loves me. And tells me so. 

Yes, it was Phisical She said I have made up there relationship t be bigger than what it was. But how do I really know that?


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

ch123 said:


> Hi Plan 9,
> 
> She is seeing a therapist every week. Also we are seeing a couples Therapist who says we are doing great. I have access to her phone records and facebook pages. so far nothing since Dday. But that's nothing because she knows I have access. She tells me everytime what she is doing. Un fortunately she is *still in contact because she works for him.* She has pulled me aside and told me she is working on a transfer to a different department and it should take about 6 months.
> I brought the issue of her working with her ex in one of our Therapy sessions and the Therapist said it is not a big deal. To let the birdie fly so to speak. Let her workout her issues. My therapist has said the same thing. Also adding that everything she has seen and heard about our situtation does not point to my wife still being in the affair. In fact the therapist said that everything points to her working to get back to me.
> ...


She has to go no contact MAN!!! no other way around it!!!


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## ch123 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hi sinnister,

No abuse involved. Just neglect on my part. She is geting over it slowly.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Has she quit her job?
Has she stopped all contact with the coworker?
Did you blow up the affair to everyone in the family so they know you are not the bad guy? 
Has she displayed any real remorse? Sounds more like she was trying to decide between you and the coworker. And she shouldn't be given a choice. She should be given a kick in the rear, and see if the coworker will catch her. 
Have you told the coworker's wife?

Most importantly:
Why are you reconciling with a woman that is not into reconciling with you 100%? 
She sounds more like a fence sitter. Hoping the coworker will come back to her, but if he doesn't, well, she has plan B in the wings ready to scoop her up. (and plan B is you)


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

START HERE READ IT, READ ALL OF IT, SLOWLY AND THEN READ IT AGAIN

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Also read Not Just Friends and get a new MC, the one you have is a quack...NO WAY should she be working with him


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

WTF! 
She is still in contact with the coworker? 

No wonder she is putting <50% effort into reconciling with you. She is putting the rest of her effort into showing the OM what a great catch she is to him! 

Dude, your wife needs to quit her job, or she can quit the marriage. Forget what your counselor says. 
For her to keep going to work and see the OM everyday, is like, your kidnappers wanting to stay in contact with you after they let you go.


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## ch123 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hi Struggling,

My therapist recommended that i do not commit relationship sewer side by exposing the affair at her work. This would in the end hurt me more and everyone else. So i have standed down for now. I do not have any proof of the affair continuing. Just my wife telling me she loves me and working with the Therapist.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

She works "for him"? And you believe it's over? Oh, man.

Is she having sex with you again yet? Or is she remaining faithful to her affair partner? Did you expose? Is he married, and if so, did you tell his wife?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You have a bad therapist. You have a "rug-sweeping" therapist.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

ch123 said:


> Hi Struggling,
> 
> My therapist recommended that i do not commit relationship sewer side by exposing the affair at her work. This would in the end hurt me more and everyone else. So i have standed down for now. I do not have any proof of the affair continuing. Just my wife telling me she loves me and working with the Therapist.


Think about what you are saying here, She has a PA with a co-worker, her boss in fact...how in the hell can she tell you she loves you and continue to work with a guy she banged...oh yeah thats love alright....Read the newbie link...please read it.
You dont have to expose, just demand she quit...
"It's him or me babe, him or me" you dont have to stand down, by doing so, you appear weak in her eyes, if your weak how could you be attractive to her?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ch123 said:


> Hi Plan 9,
> 
> She is seeing a therapist every week. Also we are seeing a couples Therapist who says we are doing great. I have access to her phone records and facebook pages. so far nothing since Dday. But that's nothing because she knows I have access. She tells me everytime what she is doing. *Un fortunately she is still in contact because she works for him. She has pulled me aside and told me she is working on a transfer to a different department and it should take about 6 months.*
> I brought the issue of her working with her ex in one of our Therapy sessions and the Therapist said it is not a big deal. To let the birdie fly so to speak. Let her workout her issues. My therapist has said the same thing. Also adding that everything she has seen and heard about our situtation does not point to my wife still being in the affair. In fact the therapist said that everything points to her working to get back to me.
> ...


1) That is not good. There needs to be ZERO contact, no exceptions.

2) Sexual Harassment Lawsuit. Your wife was sleeping with her boss? Well...if HR finds out he would get canned. Are you pursuing this? Is there any evidence that proves the boss was sleeping with your wife? I'd see an attorney. If your wife tries to defend the boss, then you know she's not over him. But if she throws him under the bus it does not necessarily mean that she is remorseful either.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

She cheated...but it sounds like the roles are reversed here. She's the one showing anger. 

You, the betrayed spouse, seem to be the one eating shyte, showing remorse, putting out extra effort to fix the marriage, settling for scraps, etc.

Tell your wife to choose - the marriage, or her job with her PA boss. It will not be both.


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## ch123 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hi WorkOnMe,

She has had several break downs telling me she loved me and that she was sorry. I thought I was going to need to call 911 one night. If I go into her work to the HR department. I will have know chance my both the couples and my Therapist believe this. She says she is very sorry. Which has me frozen.


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## ch123 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hi WorkingOnMe,

Yes we are having sex, I have not contact his wife yet. Have been focusing on us.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

ch123 said:


> She has had several break downs telling me she loved me and that she was sorry.





ch123 said:


> She says she is very sorry.


No matter how tearful, no matter how sincere they sound, these are JUST WORDS. People are asking about her ACTIONS. Her words mean nothing. NOTHING. 

So, what exactly has she done? Has she wrote a no-contact letter? Has she exposed? Has she quit? No she hasn't done any of these things. She shed a couple of tears, but has done nothing.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

IMO your money is being wasted with this therapist. I'm astounded that your wife was reluctant to have sex with you because she felt weird. Bet she didn't feel weird the first time with the OM. 

That was a slap to the face.


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## ch123 (Dec 10, 2012)

We have had sex finally. everything just seems to neat. In my opinion.


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## ch123 (Dec 10, 2012)

She been nice and telling me when she is depressed or feeling down. Been going on date nights seems to slowly be coming around. Much better than the previous months. telling me the kids have blossimed because of my involvmnet now with the family. Just seems to neat.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

ch123 said:


> Hi WorkingOnMe,
> 
> Yes we are having sex, I have not contact his wife yet. Have been focusing on us.


Did she get an STD check 1st??


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

ch123 said:


> We have had sex finally. everything just seems to neat. In my opinion.


Neat? Wait until you get herpes or HIV.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

> She said I have made up there relationship t be bigger than what it was


If your therapists agreed with this they're worthless as therapists. 

AND neither sees an issue with her continued contact with the OM. 

un-frickin-believable!

Yeah, I can see why she's much happier now. But it's your life, the kids seem more content, you seem to be accepting it. So be it. Be well and maybe I'm just a moron.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Wait...wait....your wife still works with the Dbag OM and your therapist says that it's "No big deal"?!?!?! The same person that she had a physical and intimate relationship outside of the marriage and they see each other everday and it's no big deal.....really.

Where the hell are these therapists getting their degree's from? An online course with the University of Costa Rica?

I would tell the OMW(firstly, because she has a right to know) and if your therapist asks why you did that, I would say, "Well, you thought it wasn't a big deal that they are working together, so what's the big deal of letting his wife know what's going on in her marriage. It shouldn't have been a big deal, right? By the way, I gave her your number so you can tell her that her husband working with my wife isn't a big deal either so now we'll all be on the same page."


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Gawd, the things I want to say.

But I can't I know I'd get my first ban if I typed what I thought.

My blood is boiling at the thought of this. Dude, you need to grow a pair, seriously.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> No matter how tearful, no matter how sincere they sound, these are JUST WORDS. People are asking about her ACTIONS. Her words mean nothing. NOTHING.
> 
> So, what exactly has she done? Has she wrote a no-contact letter? Has she exposed? Has she quit? No she hasn't done any of these things. She shed a couple of tears, but has done nothing.


Right. Exactly.

Does the OM's wife know? If not, you need to let her know. She deserves to know her husband cheated with his employee.
If anything is still going on (and deceivers can't help themselves from going underground IF they aren't remorseful 100% and willing to do whatever it takes to repair the marriage) then you exposing to his wife will help nip it in the bud -- at least give you a better shot at it. Nobody's gonna be happy -- but you'll cut out the cake-eating.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

crossbar said:


> Wait...wait....your wife still works with the Dbag OM and your therapist says that it's "No big deal"?!?!?! The same person that she had a physical and intimate relationship outside of the marriage and they see each other everday and it's no big deal.....really.
> 
> Where the hell are these therapists getting their degree's from? An online course with the University of Costa Rica?
> 
> I would tell the OMW(firstly, because she has a right to know) and if your therapist asks why you did that, I would say, "Well, you thought it wasn't a big deal that they are working together, so what's the big deal of letting his wife know what's going on in her marriage. It shouldn't have been a big deal, right? By the way, I gave her your number so you can tell her that her husband working with my wife isn't a big deal either so now we'll all be on the same page."


:iagree:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I suspect that the reason she's being tearful and pretending to be remorseful is so she can protect her affair partner.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I am very sorry but this is not going to end well, please watch your back. David


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ch123 said:


> Hi Plan 9,
> 
> She is seeing a therapist every week. Also we are seeing a couples Therapist who says we are doing great. I have access to her phone records and facebook pages. so far nothing since Dday. But that's nothing because she knows I have access. She tells me everytime what she is doing. Un fortunately she is still in contact because she works for him. She has pulled me aside and told me she is working on a transfer to a different department and it should take about 6 months.
> I brought the issue of her working with her ex in one of our Therapy sessions and the Therapist said it is not a big deal. To let the birdie fly so to speak. Let her workout her issues. My therapist has said the same thing. Also adding that everything she has seen and heard about our situtation does not point to my wife still being in the affair. In fact the therapist said that everything points to her working to get back to me.
> ...


Did she have sex with someone else? If yes, can you get past this? Is *she* willing to help you get past this?

I did, after my wife's affair, but it's not easy.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

The moment you let your cheating non-remorseful wife to be back in the marriage, she has lost whatever respect she had for you. It will happen again (if not already happening) and at the end of the day you will be left with only the ashes of your marriage. Take the suggestions from people who have been there. The cheaters' manual is the same for every WS, only the names, ages, and colors change.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

ch123 said:


> Hi WorkingOnMe,
> 
> Yes we are having sex, I have not contact his wife yet. Have been focusing on us.


You are going to regret not telling the OMW sooner, you need to put this on your to-do list.

I'm with the rest, this sounds like a false R . She is not going to really want to be with you and work on the M until she thinks she has already lost you (or will lose you).

If she doesn't seem into the M (or is faking it to hide the A that went underground?) then pull out. Don't waste you time with a W that doesn't love you like a W should.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

ch123 said:


> I have not contact his wife yet. Have been focusing on us.


You are trying to nice guy your way out of this, and you're probably going to end up getting trampled. 

Contact his wife and tell her what you know. If you want to blow up this affair, you need to make it uncomfortable for the two lovebirds. Your wife and the OM boss are probably giggling at work about how they dodged a bullet, and how this is so easily blowing over.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> You are trying to nice guy your way out of this, and you're probably going to end up getting trampled.
> 
> Contact his wife and tell her what you know. If you want to blow up this affair, you need to make it uncomfortable for the two lovebirds. Your wife and the OM boss are probably giggling at work about how they dodged a bullet, and how this is so easily blowing over.



Unfortunately - his IC and MC won't approve. CH you really need to drop these two. Shop around for therapists that are trained in infidelity. 

Right now the counselors are patting themselves on the back because they've calmed you down and made her very happy by not having to own up. They'll list you as a success - when in reality they just provided a great big rug to sweep everything under. 

I have this image of her boss chortling under his breath every time he thinks about it. A charmed life indeed.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Unfortunately - his IC and MC won't approve. CH you really need to drop these two. Shop around for therapists that are trained in infidelity.
> 
> Right now the counselors are patting themselves on the back because they've calmed you down and made her very happy by not having to own up. They'll list you as a success - when in reality they just provided a great big rug to sweep everything under.
> 
> I have this image of her boss chortling under his breath every time he thinks about it. A charmed life indeed.


Yep and smirking every time he sees WW and congratulating himself on getting the panties off some 'chumps' (as he no doubt views it) wife.

I suspect that the WW wouldn't have sex with the OP and only begrudgingly later as she was being faithful to her AP.
And OP this isn't just me, it is a well known phenomenon.

I think the whole reason you are having problems with this is that deep down your gut tells you that all this has been handled wrong.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I understand you are following your therapist's advice. He or she is a professional with a degree and certifications. You know that there are doctors and lawyers and therapists that are not good at what they do? How did you pick your therapist? How do you know he or she is any good other than the fact thar they seem to have credentials?

Some of us seemed to be in a similar situation as you but received much different advice from the therapist.

How do you know your wife and other man don't occasionally have a moment of weakness and have sex with each other?

Does the other man's wife have any clue that the affair took place?

What did you do specifically that was so bad that your wife harbors such anger and resentment against you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

CH123,

I feel for you. You're probably sitting in your most vulnerable and painful time of your life. At these moments, it's almost imperative to be able to rely on someone else to help you keep your head screwed on straight. 

You've turned to your therapists and it's really hard to know what the right answer is. All you can do is put faith in these "professionals" and almost close your eyes and blindly follow what they say with this thought that "it'll all be okay". 

Unfortunately, 50% of all professionals graduated in the bottom half of their class. Remember that ANY time you're getting important advise. Secondly, are you going to counselors who SPECIALIZE in your issues. 

To me it sounds like your wife has A LOT of issues and your the one doing A LOT of work. It seems like the affair was brushed aside (which is very common with counselors who don't specialize in it). You need to seek out a counselor who SPECIFICALLY in trained in infidelity.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Your therapist is almost as terrible as your wife.

Almost.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

I agree with the others. It sounds like the therapist that you're seeing would make Oprah and Dr. Phil very proud.

I would look for a therapist that specializes in infidelity. This quack doesn't have a clue.......no big deal.....really?!?! I'm still hung up on that.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

CH123...here's the deal, man. You've heard/read it from a bunch of people here. Well...you're gonna hear it one more time (at least).

1. Fire the therapist. Period. He/She sucks moose balls at this. Seriously. Our former therapist once told my wife that she should tell me if I keep asking questions that she's going to leave. Yep. My wife told me as soon as she got home because she was so angry and is fully on board with knowing what she needs to do.

2. The chick you're married to ain't your wife. She stopped being your wife when she decided that banging another guy was an okay decision. Deal with that and see her fully for who she is...not who she was on that wedding day. If you can come to grips with it, then fine. If you can't...well, that's fine too.

3. You are in serious, serious pain right now. I don't know if you have even been allowed to show that in therapy. It doesn't sound like you'd be able to anyway with your crack-head shrink. You need to get in touch with that anger.

4. If you truly want to reconcile with her, then understand the old negotiator tactic that the one who is fully willing to walk away from the table is the winner. Do NOT let her dictate what she is gonna do. Hell, man...I had my wife toss out her ENTIRE dresser of panties and bras right after Dday along with the $120 pair of boots she was wearing that night.

Point being...reconciliation is on YOUR terms. Not hers or even some idiotic f'ng counselor. YOUR terms. F'ng Period!


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

ch123 said:


> Hi Plan 9,
> 
> She is seeing a therapist every week. Also we are seeing a couples Therapist who says we are doing great. I have access to her phone records and facebook pages. so far nothing since Dday. But that's nothing because she knows I have access. She tells me everytime what she is doing. Un fortunately she is still in contact because she works for him. She has pulled me aside and told me she is working on a transfer to a different department and it should take about 6 months.
> I brought the issue of her working with her ex in one of our Therapy sessions and the Therapist said it is not a big deal. To let the birdie fly so to speak. Let her workout her issues. My therapist has said the same thing. Also adding that everything she has seen and heard about our situtation does not point to my wife still being in the affair. In fact the therapist said that everything points to her working to get back to me.
> ...


Excuse me, but your therapists, need their heads' examined, collectively or individually. 

It is NOT okay for your straying wife to be working for her AFFAIR PARTNER. 

If they actually said this, you need to find some that are very experienced with infidelity. 

It is NOT okay that she is alone with him every day. 

That is likely the reason for the distance you sense.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Shoot...I forgot to bring up your "wife" working for the OM.

Ummmm. Yeah. That's so not f'ng cool.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

You have a bad therapist. Fire her.

Chances this affair is on going and has gone on a lot longer then you think. I bet your WW kept the kids in the bed so she would stop your advances so she would be faithful to her OM/boss.

WW reluctance to have sex with her BH is an indication that her affair is still on going. Also that she will not leave her job because she needs to have her OM fill her needs while at work. Also being that she won't let you expose the OM at work is because she is still in love and is putting protecting the OM first before her marriage and her BH.

You need to expose this affair to WW parents and siblings, and OMW.

Then you need to send a letter to the CEO or owner of the company, Board of Directors, and the Head of Human Resources.
Do not send the letter anonymous they will not treat is serious or act upon the letter.

Simply state that your WW has been harassed by her OM to have a sexual relationship with him. What is the company going to do about it.

Send the exposure letters out today.

Next get a copy and paste of OM FB list. Then send out exposure letter to everyone on the list. Only send out one message each minute because FB will think you are spaming and then will block you.

Exposure must be done completely in one day and with out telling your WW before hand.

Exposure will make sure OMW keeps her eyes open to keep her OM away from your WW and will stop OM and WW from working together any more.

Affairs create a chemical reaction in the brain that is an addictive high. To break your WW addiction to the OM there must 100% NC/no contact with your WW and the OM.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> 50% of all professionals graduated in the bottom half of their class.


:iagree: Love this...


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

old timer said:


> :iagree: Love this...


It's true. But never forget: a students make great researchers. B students make great litigators. And C students make.....partner.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

ch123 said:


> Hi Plan 9,
> 
> She is seeing a therapist every week. Also we are seeing a couples Therapist who says we are doing great. I have access to her phone records and facebook pages. so far nothing since Dday. But that's nothing because she knows I have access. She tells me everytime what she is doing. Un fortunately she is still in contact because she works for him. She has pulled me aside and told me she is working on a transfer to a different department and it should take about 6 months.
> I brought the issue of her working with her ex in one of our Therapy sessions and the *Therapist said it is not a big deal*. To let the birdie fly so to speak. Let her workout her issues. My therapist has said the same thing. Also adding that everything she has seen and heard about our situtation does not point to my wife still being in the affair. In fact the therapist said that everything points to her working to get back to me.
> ...


The therapist is an idiot. She cannot separate her feelings from this man as long as she is in contact with him. You my friend are in false R. She is still in the affair. They are just confining it to work and being more careful.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

That's the thing. You're giving her distance. The OM is not. He likely continues to pursue her. And he does it with impunity. He does not fear you in the slightest. Because he has already seen that you will allow it without confrontation or consequence.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Unfortunately - his IC and MC won't approve. CH you really need to drop these two. Shop around for therapists that are trained in infidelity.
> 
> Right now the counselors are patting themselves on the back because they've calmed you down and made her very happy by not having to own up. They'll list you as a success - when in reality they just provided a great big rug to sweep everything under.
> 
> I have this image of her boss chortling under his breath every time he thinks about it. A charmed life indeed.


Did your wife's boss find these therapists?


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

ch123 said:


> I brought the issue of her working with her ex in one of our Therapy sessions and the Therapist said it is not a big deal. To let the birdie fly so to speak. Let her workout her issues.


 Unfreakingbelievable! Did this jerk get his or her diploma from the bottom of a cracker jack box?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Maybe edubs should send his copy of Not Just Freinds to this therapist. Sounds like she needs it.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

ch123 said:


> Hi Struggling,
> 
> My therapist recommended that i do not commit relationship sewer side by exposing the affair at her work. This would in the end hurt me more and everyone else. So i have standed down for now. I do not have any proof of the affair continuing. Just my wife telling me she loves me and working with the Therapist.


Your therapist is an idiot. The affair is probably still going on. Just an afternoon lunch break is enough. Or a possible second phone etc. Expose the affair at work if you can afford it financially. 

And she had sex with you to calm you down because you were getting restless and suspicious. So she threw you a biscut to keep you off her back. 

And you don't realize something. She neglected you too. But she is choosing to blame the whole thing on you and you ate it up. You are also being misled by your counselors. get some new ones.

Look at how things turned out. She had an affair.(How long was the affair going on ?). She blamed you. She was angry at you so that she could justify her affair. She never had to face any consequences. She has no incentive to change when things are going so well. You need to tell her parents what happened.

You also need to expose to the OM's wife .


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I hope you haven't disappeared due to the barrage of 'advice' you have been given. All, most, TELLING you what you MUST do. That is not helpful. Especially as most giving the advice have been through this most painful of experiences and not reacted in the way they should in order to get the best results in the swiftest amount of time. Most of us have had the confusion, the inability to do what must be done due to the inability to see clearly. All is mud, and it tastes like sh*t. 

Your wife seems remorseful to some extent, but what is worrying is that this reconciliation is all about her hurt, what you have done to her, and how you are going to make her feel better. This attitude kind of cancels out all her remorse. This is her avoiding her actions. And you MUST NOT take the heavy load of this. Were the problems pre-affair all yours and none hers? Did she voice her unhappiness? Has she asked you for a very long time to fix what she was feeling neglected about? Did she meet all your needs, give and give, while you just took and took and took. While giving nothing of meeting her needs also? You need to weigh that up 1st and foremost.

If her post affair complaints are different to her pre affair complaints then she is rugsweeping, and using avoidance tactics and manipulation. 

If her pre affair complaints were just kind of small annoyances that we all have about our partner, same as above. Manipulation and avoidance. 

If she has been expressing her deep unhappiness and neglect for a very long time, and you have done nothing, then more fool you! But much bigger fool her for 'solving' this problem with an affair instead of dealing with it the correct way and choosing separation before embarking on another relationship. What she did was wrong. Totally. 

I would imagine from your post that the final scenario is not the correct one. 

You should not be the one on the back foot. You should not be the one making all the concessions. All the effort. The giving. While she sheds tears yet tells you what it is that you have to do, what you have to put up with, how it is that you are making her feel! When is she going to deal with how you feel? When is she going to deal with what she has done to you and how SHE is going to make it better? 

You need to demand it. Because you are not getting it. And she will know that you are a walkover while you allow her to have the power and control in dealing with what SHE has brought to the relationship. And it will happen again. Because even if she never wants it to happen again, she has felt no consequences, so as soon as the circumstances arise again, the unhappiness and the attractive man, she has no stop mechanism that tells her not to. That tells her that she will lose everything, face pain, if she goes there again.

You really need to assert yourself here.

And you need to fire the therapist. Any therapist that says it is fine to be in close proximity and remain in close proximity to a person that represents the ending of a marriage and family, that that is fine, needs their own therapist. And a huge dose of reality and education. Get another. And be sure to tell them how sh*t they are and why before you leave. Tell them to go get a proper education.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Oh, and BTW, due to your wife trying to shift the blame to you = lack of remorse, it is difficult to believe she has really stopped the affair. You really need to verify this. You can use different spyware to do this. Voice Activated Recorders, Spyware on the phone, other things.

And it really would be advisable to expose this to his wife. It will hopefully give you an extra set of eyes on the other half of your problem. Him. 

Exposing does not ruin things. It brings them out in the open. It brings reality to the situation. The real life affair and solving the problem of it. Facing it. And it hurries along a conclusion of your wife helping you or doing what will eventually happen anyway which is leave. And if there is any hint of backlash from your wife, that gives a massive sign that she continues her affair. If she is protecting him rather than helping you, she continues her affair.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I don't know bud.....

Your wife isn't fitting the classical psychology of a remorseful wayward wife.

You should have went through a period of her being extremely remorseful. Almost begging you to stay, or at least give you a true heart to heart. Then, you would have went through a period of what is called "hysterical bonding", where your wife does you like there's no tomorrow, and you can do no wrong.

Instead, it seems like she's continuing to string you along and making you wait for her to decide if she wants to be with you or not.

Look. She either wants to be with you. Or she doesn't. Simple. There's no reason for you to wait on her decision like your in the running for the second choice. It's time to man up and take the lead.

It's time for you to decide what you want.

Btw....your therapist sounds like an uneducated loser. All the wrong advise in my opinion.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Ch123, I really hope you didn't run away. At the very least, please read the advice that we're giving you. We've all been in that dark place where you currently find yourself. Naturally, you want to save your marriage and the life that you and your family had before your wife's betrayal. However, the wife that you thought your knew so well is DEAD. Yes, let me repeat that: she is D-E-A-D!!

The woman living with you now is an alien life form. She despises the very ground that you walk on. She will walk out on you and the kids if it means fulfilling her fantasy of being the the OM (trust me, I know.)

First thing, expose to everyone - including the OMW. Send a letter to HR informing them of what the OM has done. (I think you might have grounds for a lawsuit - or at the very least get his azz fired.) Second, fire the MC and the IC - they're both quacks. Finally, start educating yourself on infidelity. In about a year's time, I learned a lot more about infidelity that I every wanted to know. But you know what - it was worth it. I read books and became a regular on this forum. I learned that my ex did not have affairs because of me - she had affairs because she's a broken woman. I also learned that I'm a much stronger person than I realized. I don't need another person to make me happy. I can be happy all by my lonesome.

Please stick around. We're here to help you make it through this difficult time.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Finally, start educating yourself on infidelity. In about a year's time, I learned a lot more about infidelity that I every wanted to know. But you know what - it was worth it.


Yes, same here. About 9 months to a year. Totally educated on the subject and I feel more expert than many 'experts'. As for advice from friends.....they can and do, an extreme disservice to anyone going through infidelity. 

I would not have stayed the length I did I don't think had it not been for the 'advice' of my ill educated friends.

I absolutely believe I would have given up instead of trying or 'waiting' to see.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

And the advice of your therapists is worse than that of an ill educated friend!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Elvis is probably already in the process of being scared out of the building, but here we go anyway...



ch123 said:


> Me and my wife have been married for 15 years. We have 2 girls 5 and 7 years old.


So, you've had at least one kid in your bed since the onset of the 7 year itch?



ch123 said:


> The last ten have been different. do to having kids, building a house and having it burn down after we just moved in. Then rebuilding and moving back in...During that time we grew apart because the kids slepted in our bed and I could not sleep in a crowded bed like this.


Let me guess; your wife was already working with her OM when the kids moved into your bed.



ch123 said:


> This affected our love life dramatically. Basically making us roommates.


We had the kids in the bedroom for the first year or so in each of their lives and it never stopped us from doing anything. The roommate business was a result of her not wanting sex with you. After all, you weren't turning her down, she was turning you down. She didn't want sex with you because she was being loyal to her affair partner(s) or she found you sexually repulsive or both.



ch123 said:


> Finally, my wife started to make the kids who are older now sleep in there own beds. This brought me back and made me feel like I could try and get close to my wife again.


So, exactly how long did she freeze you out? The longer you let her get away with that, the more contempt she has for you.



ch123 said:


> So I started to reconcile with her on her birthday.


Do you mean you brought up the subject in a conversation or do you mean you made a move on her and was rejected?




ch123 said:


> Only to find out that there was some deep anger issues she had with me.


What deep anger issues? Did you cheat on her? What? That's what I figured. A big nothing. She was putting up a penis deflection screen so she could stay loyal to her OM.



ch123 said:


> I started to sleep in our bed again and we started sleeping together again.


Sleeping together or copulating? It ain't the same thing.



ch123 said:


> But something was very different. So said I *felt like a stranger* and got mad at me for thinking I could flip a switch and come back into her life.


She had gotten used to sex with OM, so you were the stranger. She wanted to keep it that way out of loyalty to OM.



ch123 said:


> I really felt that something was weird about this so I ask her if she was seeing someone esle.


See, you do have good instincts! Bravo! It's tough for guys between 25 and 60 to utilize their instincts because they have been fed a load of crap about the true nature of women. Older guys were never fed it and younger guys in the upcoming generation never bought it.



ch123 said:


> She denied it!


That shouldn't be surprising.



ch123 said:


> I did not believe her so I began to investigate her phone bills and found many text messages and calls to the same number. I put a track on her phone and in August caught her with a guy. Turned out to be a co-worker all hell broke loose. He is also married.


Very well done. Bravo! You can't believe how many guys resist taking just these steps. They would prefer to keep themselves in the dark. You conducted a successful investigation on your own and caught her to where you could not be gaslighted. This is rare indeed and I can't commend you enough for pulling this off. Outstanding work.



ch123 said:


> That night we talked about this and she gave me the laundry list of issues she had with me.


Every bit of that list was bullsh!t except for the things she in it that she had already brought up to you in discussions prior to her starting her first adulterous relationship. BTW, how long has this particular affair been going on?



ch123 said:


> She agreed that we get therapy to help us work this out. the therapist discovered that my wife has deep anger and resentment towards me.


About what? Being passive for the last seven years and then busting up her affair? That resentment is just her trying to blame you for her affair(s). It's so common it has a name: rationalization hamster. See, women hate cheating and they hate cheaters. Your wife, even though she's guilty, hates cheaters, too. And that's why she has to come up with lots of good reasons you forced her to become an adulteress. Those reasons are the ones on her list. That list of grievances make her adultery all your fault. The "therapist" is helping her sell it. Don't buy it.

See, the first time she had sex with an OM she asks herself "why oh why, did I let that happen?" And what she comes up with is the idea that if you were really her "soul mate", the ONE she was really meant to be with, this would not have happened. She would not have done all these forbidden sexual things with others if you were really the ONE. Her doubts about you, which were created by her own actions in the first place (they never existed before she committed adultery) get rationalized into justification for her adultery. This is how they justify their easy betrayals of their loved ones with their alleged value system.



ch123 said:


> It's December now, alot has happened during this rebuilding process. Many ups and down times. Like a roller coaster. My wife has been struggling to get close to me and for since August I have been instructed to give her space while she is sorting herself out.


Space? What does that mean? No Sex?



ch123 said:


> During this time we have been working hard we have fun together have taken trips. getting along great!


She's happy with all that, because she doesn't have to sexually interact with you.



ch123 said:


> Except for her continued distance. She is not distant all of the time but seems to not be as affectionate as I know she can be.


Space puts distance between you, distance means no sex with you. That's why she needs space.



ch123 said:


> She does not touch me during the day very much but will give me a kiss in the morning and night.


That's because anal sex is reserved for the OM(s). As is every other kind of sex, be it ordinary or kinky.



ch123 said:


> She does say she loves me. Even received flowers on our anniversary with a very nice card. saying she loves me. This was a first in a very long time.


Wow. That was a mighty tasty bone she tossed you. Just her way of saying thanks for being such a swell guy and letting her continue to bang the OM during working hours. Do you let her go out at night and on weekends, too?




ch123 said:


> The problem is me too. I am having trust issues. Very hard to believe that someone could be nice to you to your face and be cheating on you at the same time.


Believe it. She's doing it right in front of you. Of course, she can't believe you're letting her do it, either.



ch123 said:


> My wife has discoved that she has some serious personal issues which go back to when she was a child and how she was raised. Basically raised in a household of fear. Anyway, I don't know why I can't just feel good about where we are at right now.


Because you can't make progress as long as she's banging or even just seeing the OM. See, your wife is high all the time on highly addictive sex chemistry. The chemicals PEA, norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, testosterone, etc. all make sex with new guys totally addictive for women and your WW loves it and wants more. She's totally addicted to the "crack" of wild sex with strange men and maybe more. You've done very well at suspecting and uncovering the affair, but you probably don't know the half of it and she wants to keep it that way.



ch123 said:


> Everything seems like we are on the mends. Even my wife says that now I am doing everything right and me [filling] her pail is helping her heal.


Yeah, and OM fills her other thing and that makes her happy.




ch123 said:


> So why don't I trust her. How do I stop feeling like she is going to come home one day and say we are done.


Because it's just a matter of time until that happens. Unless you change your approach and get her away from OM. 



ch123 said:


> We finally got together the other night and made love again. She was really uptight and nervous and told me she was. Said, she was nervous because it has been so long and she was emotional about it.


First time cheating on OM made her emotional. How long was your dry spell?



ch123 said:


> Don't get me wrong my wife seems to be doing all the right things too. She even offered to take my mom shopping. This was new to me. My therapist says that she would be be doing any of these things if she was not planning to stay. But I cannot convince myself completely.


There's no reason for her to go anyway. You're paying the bills and OM is hauling her ashes. You let her see him every single day and haven't even told his wife. No need to leave, just yet. 




ch123 said:


> I asked her that I would like to talk about how I could please her more in the bedroom. Since we have never had that discusion. But he said she is just not ready to do that right now.


There's no need for that discussion, somebody else already has all that under control. Thanks for asking, though.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

ch123 said:


> We have had sex finally. everything just seems to neat. In my opinion.


How many times?

Look, you need to get rid of your idiot counselors. They're incompetent. You also need to try to build some sexual attraction with your wife. Here's how to do it:

1) Turn OM in. Tell his wife about the affair. Don't warn your WW you're going to do it.

2) Tell WW to quit her job and follow through with it.

3) Out her to her family.

4) Tell her you're going to DNA the kids and do it.

5) I've got a feeling you're not in very good physical shape. Probably because you project a low testosterone level over the internets. Start a bodybuilding program and get your waist down to 32" ASAP. That gut is a huge turnoff to women.

6) Put a VAR under her car seat.

7) Upgrade your wardrobe or change it somehow.

8) Change your haircut to something completely different. It doesn't matter what, just change it radically.

9) Violating The Sixteen Commandments seems to come naturally to you. Quit violating them.

10) Find out where you are on the Male Hierarchy.

11) Find out how to build attraction in marriage by reading this book and blog. The price of the book is the best money you'll ever spend.

It's a tall order. Good luck.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow, wow, wow.

You've been played bigtime by your wife and the OM. I wonder what your wife said to the therapist to convince them to lie to you and let her stay working for her OM and seeing him for hours each and every day. Alone. With no transparency.

The poster who said this has gone on for much longer than you know is right. That's why the kids where kept in your bed for as long as she could - to prevent her from betraying her OM by having sex with you.

And six months to transfer? No, it takes a couple of phone calls and a decision to do it. 6 months is effectively forever, and I think you'll find the plan is really either:

1. For the OM to have 6 months to get his ducks in a row and then D his wife, so your's can be with him. 

or

2. you're wife has given you 6 months to change her mind about being with her OM forever. At the end , if you haven't done it, she's going to dump you and divorce you.


I understand why you didn't initially expose to HR, but why not the OM's wife? You let him completely have access to your wife daily to change her mind, or worse continue to have sex at work, without any consequence at all.

Please tell his wife tomorrow. She has a moral right to know, and it will be a true test of your wifes supposed loyalty.

That resentment she's got for you - it's 100% because you and the kids are reason she is having trouble being with her OM every night permanently. You're continued existence is the one thing that is keeping them apart. And each and everyday she goes into work and spends 9 hours in close contact with him, reinforces that feeling - that you are the thing that is keeping her from being happy.

Your therapist is an idiot if they don't recognize that having any on going contact with the AP, just reinforces the affair chemicals in her brain that drives her to push you away and to be with him. 

I think you'll find you've been in a totally false R, and by allowing your wife these months of daily contact with the OM, and by protecting the OM by not telling his wife, your wife sees you as a weak fool who she's lost all respect for entirely.

I also think you'll find the recent sex is her last attempt at giving you a chance to change her mind.

This whole thing is totally upside down - She's the CHEATER. She's the one that betrayed you, and yet you are the one jumping through hoops, and letting her continue to cake eat for months, and giving her space she needs to be with the OM. 

that's not a remorseful spouse set of actions. A cheater who wants to save their marriage would be begging forgiveness. They would be doing everything the could to earn a second chance. And they certainly would have had the common sense to dump the OM out of their life.

Sorry, but the real reason why your marriage hasn't begun to heal, is that your in a totally false R because you wife is cake eating.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> How many times?
> 
> Look, you need to get rid of your idiot counselors. They're incompetent. You also need to try to build some sexual attraction with your wife. Here's how to do it:
> 
> ...


This plus read: Married Man Sex Primer by Kay Athol


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> This plus read: Married Man Sex Primer by Kay Athol


:iagree:

And some P90X wouldn't hurt either.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

OP, I was you for more than two decades. I could be steered into thinking there were plenty of reasons that I was being denied any affection. The only problem is those reasons later became fabricated excuses and I was being played like a worn out fiddle.
Are you even certain that your children were fathered by you?
I was sure about "our" two and yet it turned out that neither of them were mine.
If you are searching for why your wife is "angry" with you, I can only point you toward the way you cater to anything and everything she says she demands of you and she has absolutely NO respect for you.
She obviously is "in love" with her boss.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

hookares that is so harsh. So sad. What she robbed from you! That is unbelievable and shocking. That is the kind of thing people end up going to prison for! Their reactions to something like that. Unbelievably cruel.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It's true. But never forget: a students make great researchers. B students make great litigators. And C students make.....partner.


Good point. 

The bottom line is not what grade they earned, but how good they are at what they do.

Nevertheless a good grade is a starting point and one of the few concrete ways a laymen can make any initial judgment at all.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

hookares said:


> OP, I was you for more than two decades. I could be steered into thinking there were plenty of reasons that I was being denied any affection. The only problem is those reasons later became fabricated excuses and I was being played like a worn out fiddle.
> Are you even certain that your children were fathered by you?
> I was sure about "our" two and yet it turned out that neither of them were mine.
> If you are searching for why your wife is "angry" with you, I can only point you toward the way you cater to anything and everything she says she demands of you and she has absolutely NO respect for you.
> She obviously is "in love" with her boss.



You do an old fiddle injustice, sir! Old fiddles are to be caressed and handled with care and caring! And played with only the deepest sincerity! She SHOULD have treated you like an old fiddle!


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

My God I feel sick reading this thread, yet another one where the betrayed husband is so WILLFULLY clueless that it beggars belief.

OP, you should absorb every word that Machiavelli says, that guy knows his stuff. Though I won't be holding my breath.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Excuse me, but your therapists, need their heads' examined, collectively or individually.
> 
> It is NOT okay for your straying wife to be working for her AFFAIR PARTNER.
> 
> ...


Go to remorsefulstrayer's public profile (the poster who wrote this) and look at his profession. He knows what he is talking about. Follow his advice.


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## ch123 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hello Everyone,

I didn't disappear. been reading and absorbing it all in. I want to first thank all of you for your inputs. I plan to make some moves hear real soon. So stay posted.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

ch123 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I didn't disappear. been reading and absorbing it all in. I want to first thank all of you for your inputs. I plan to make some moves hear real soon. So stay posted.


I hope one of the thing you do like hookares said is to DNA the kids in front of her because you can't believe a word she says.


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