# Am I psycho jealous or do you think my suspicions are normal?



## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

This is longer than I thought but theraputic to write it out. 


Here are the scenarios:
**He and one of his girlfriends were friends when we met. They stayed friends when we got married. She would call the house, etc. I had no problem. About 8 months into our marriage (when I had just gotten pregnant no less), she sent all the love letters he ever wrote her to me as a wedding present. I stormed and stewed but made it clear that I thought it was in poor taste on her part not him. My only real jealousy was I wish he wrote me letters lol. Anyway, after about 10 nasty letters that I wrote to her and tore up, I finally made peace and wrote her one that I did send -one that thanked her for putting all the love he had for her into back to my hands. A couple years later when we were in her area of the country, we had lunch with her.
**He had another female friend. He told me that he once had a crush on her but she didn't ever feel the same. Fine, they talked on phone on occasion and we would meet her for lunch when we were in town and we went to her reunion. My husband told me that he had to end their friendship because of my jealousy. I told him I had no idea what he was talking about because I had never said anything negative about his friendship. He said I gave them a weird look when he kissed her at the reunion and she felt uncomfortable because I was jealous. I said I didn't even know he kissed her (and I didn't -I may have saw it but it didn't dawn on me to be concerned kwim?). Anyway, I called her and apologized for any misunderstanding and she had no idea of what I was talking about. In her view, they drifted apart because he was married and she was single, two different states, and always going to get around to calling but never doing it.
**One year into our marriage, I logged into my husband's email by accident. We had same password at that time and I didn't realize he was signed in. First thing I see is email from other woman with "hugs and kisses" as signature but otherwise seemed harmless. I was upset (probably due to pregnancy hormones) and told him that it wasn't that he had female friends but that he had ones I didn't know about and was emailing them on Valentine's Day when he had told me 10 minutes before he sent the email that he didn't have time to talk (he was in Norway and I was at home). I told that in the future, to please keep his internet relationships in the open so that it doesn't look like something it is isn't.
**Over years he meets another girl online in an adult chat room for singles and she became our hair dresser for awhile. Never batted an eye.
**He went to plenty of strip clubs while in reserves and with his business outings. I never cared until two years ago when he was going multiple times a week spending money we didn't have and then went by himself and our marriage was on the rocks.
**He chatted with some female that he used to work with in the Marines and we even talked about adopting her child. (Never had an issue but in hindsight I think I should have as I don't think it was who he said it was but the later "other woman")
**He made friends with a secretary of one his customers. I would join them for lunch sometimes and I went to her house a few times. We sent her flowers when she had a baby and bought gift baskets to help her side business.

Now 9 years into our marriage, I did have a problem. We were having your typical marriage issues –not spending enough time together he with work and I with kids, financial difficulties from a layoff and two businesses going bankrupt after taking our money, special needs kids, his family hating me, etc. It got to point he was sleeping on couch, not saying I love you or even I love you too when I said it. He came home extremely late with a scratched up back one night after a company outing at a local minor league ball game that I was not allowed to attend since it was “employees only.” Apparently the reason he was late was his secretary’s boyfriend got mad at her because she got drunk and left her (mmm, secretary’s boyfriend can come but partner’s wife can not????) and he was going to take her home but she got mad because he took her keys but somehow she ran over his foot. I really found that one too odd and too full of holes to believe, especially since the girl kept her job for another few months. However, there was not much I could do about it without further info which is hard to get (computer laptop goes to and from work, company phone, passwords to all things unknown). I started working on me, taking the plank out of my eye. I got him back to sleeping in our bed (the excuse had been the dogs would fight if someone wasn’t down there with them so I got rid of one of the dogs). Things seem to improve in some areas but he was away on business a lot and when home at late meetings a lot and at strip clubs due to work 2-4 times a week. It was never his fault –always his partners. The only other issue in those months was he bizarre behavior over Easter. First, he was “too sick” to come to my parents house for the big family gathering (and had done the same the Thanksgiving before and spent Christmas up in our room). Then on Easter Sunday, he would make a move for sex and then fall asleep, make a move and then fall asleep. So when kids got up, THEN he wanted to actually have sex but I got up to see them get their baskets and then went to church. When I got home, it was silent treatment to me and the kids. 

Then we get to where I thought I’d lose my mind. My husband goes out of town for two days. He comes home and he is mad at me the minute he walks into the house. He walks in, doesn’t say hello or anything. It’s automatic silent treatment for 3 days. When he finally talked, he said it was because house was a mess. The house was messy but has been messier before and messier since with no issue. The mess was kitchen mess from dinner which kids were eating and some camping gear in the living room. I had spent the whole day upstairs redoing my daughters room (one handed no less as I had injured the other hand badly and it was stitched up). I was in process of fixing vacuum cleaner with his friend. My daughter even asked him first thing to come see what we did to her room but he would not even go upstairs and look. So I don’t believe it was ever about the house. The night before and earlier that day, I couldn’t ever get a hold of him. He said phone coverage was bad and was in shower, etc. However, I did find out later when I finally got credit card statement that he had gone to a strip club by himself. He says it is because they have the best hamburger in town. 

He finally started talking to me casually but had to go out of town. He was out of town for my birthday but his credit card showed he went to dinner at a restaurant for $50. He says he took 3 of his employees to dinner. He never mentioned this until I confronted him. Then I went out of town for my annual trip to my mothers for a week. My husband was at home that week. Again, he was acting weird. He kept saying he had the employees over to hang out but he’s never hung out with the guys in our home before or since. One of those times, he said the guy’s female roommate was dropped off by someone else but my husband had to drive her home across town. It was very weird story that sent up flags. Between that, his being very distant and irritable, etc. I asked him if he was having an affair. I had asked this once before years before when one of his stories sounded off and he had reacted nicely then and was concerned that I thought that and was glad I asked and if I ever thought that, I should ask, etc. This time, I got different response. He was angry and told me that he was offended I would even ask such a question. He was also supposed to come down to my mom’s to see kids but said he had to do things around the house like mow the yard. Then he ended up leaving before I got home because his grandmother died. I got home and he had done the things he said he was doing (like yard had not been mowed at all). As soon as he returned from that, he was back out of town on business. During that trip, he sent me an email that basically said “I don’t know who I am anymore. I need some time to find myself. We have nothing in common but great sex and the kids. I am glad I have all these business trips going on right now but I am NOT having an affair: However, you can leave if you want and don’t call me to talk about it.” He then refused to answer any calls or emails that I sent for remainder of trip. 

When he got back from trip. He was sitting on the couch chatting on IM. I sat down beside him to talk it out. He shuts screen and sends me on errand. This happened twice about 2 hours apart. I ask who is talking to and he say it was a mutual friend. I pointed out that this friend would not have such a girly name and I went to my computer and sent request for him to put me on his IM list. It was turned down. I asked my husband why that would be and he said our friend was logged into his wife’s account. I said that couldn’t be true because the IM name has the name of this guy’s ex-wife and she would not have that name. Then, it was that our friend was at home and jumped on his sister’s laws account to be quick. I pointed out that he had not had the time to get home as he just left our city before and had to drive to a different state. He says the guy stopped at customer site and needed to get on IM real quick. I questioned why a computer tech would need to use someone else’s account and password and he said that he didn’t know but I could call our friend to verify that he was speaking the truth. I picked up phone and my husband stormed out of house yelling that I don’t trust him. He didn’t leave because our dd chased after him crying. However, the next day, he told me he had to take our mutual friend half way to the other state because friend had turned around due to the weather and friend’s wife would pick him up there. Why someone would drive 4 hours back instead of 4 hours forward is beyond me. It turned out that halfway point and place he said he had to go is where OW lived.

Later, our friend verified that he had been the one on the IM but I could tell he was lying because he was so nervous, sweating, and shaking. I decided then to kick my husband out. I sent him an email telling him that since he couldn’t make up his mind, I would make it up for him and get out or seek counseling. He stayed away for two days and then had me meet him so he could see kids and he gave me a letter. He swore it was our friend on the IM but the account belonged to some girl who had been his friend before me and he had remembered her password all these years. I didn’t believe it and said that was unethical to use her account behind her back. Later, it came out that it really was her. She was a friend married to a fellow Marine and they hung out before me. No reason why they stopped hanging out when he met me though we hung out with other friends and the male of that couple was still in town because I did meet him once and there was no sign of real friendship between the two –just two people who were acquaintances. I did find out that this was a lie by having a friend check admin records and it showed no marriage at any point. Later, the OW told me she had no idea who this person was when I brought up his name. My husband who does not know that I have evidence against his story still maintains that. Anyway, I found that he had forwarded the email I sent telling him to leave to her and she responded “I can’t talk right now but you are a good man and I can prove it to you.” There was another email where she had forwarded a poem about lost loves to him. Then one night, his phone buzzed on vibrate and he didn’t hear it as he was sleeping. During all this, my DH was never away from his phone. He even took it to the bathroom in the mornings to text. He wore it on the clip when he was in the house. I seized my chance and grabbed the phone and saw that she sent a text that said “Goodnight sweetheart”. She would later claim she does that to all her friends. So I texted back from his phone that he had decided to stay with me. I told him what I did when he woke up and he said good that she had been stalking him since she thought I was leaving. However, that night, it was back to silent treatment and eventually that I am jealous and he can’t have friends and I don’t trust him. I did talk to OW and she swore they were friends and only friends, that they met online around March 1999 (a few weeks after I told him to keep things open), and she had only met him in person one time and he told her that he was separated from me when he came and it was only to see her because she was upset her father died. We had never been separated –he plays semantic game and said it was when I was at my moms and he thought that meant I was leaving him. However, I go to my mom’s every year for same week. This had been planned and discussed months in advance. At that point, I was only starting to figure out something was going on. Also, we talked on phone everyday. Anyway, her timeline of the visit was much later. 

So to back up a bit. During all this time, other issues popped up. I found a lot of porn downloaded to his computer (he said he took it off partner’s computer and was holding it as evidence). I found that he signed up to a singles dating site (he said he signed up to play a joke on another friend. I just found out last week that joke was never made known to that friend). I found a tag for $30 bouquet of flowers in his car (he said he had no idea and then later claimed it was for secretary’s day which had been months prior) Also, he would not hold me at night (as had for 9 years straight and has again since we go over major hump) but when I asked what was going on, he said I was over-reacting and nothing was different. We went on vacation and one night, he was all about sex with me and then the rest of vacation, he gave me cold shoulder and would stay asleep in room while I took kids to pool, etc. One of those nights, he had to go back to car to get something. I remembered I needed something and tried to catch him in hall but elevator had left. I got to parking lot. He was hiding behind some other cars talking on phone to a woman. He was telling her that he would take her to go car shopping. When I approached, he didn’t hang up. Afterwards, we had a fight about it. He swears he wasn’t hiding, that it was a customer (one I never heard of before or after). I asked why would a female customer that you are not friends with call you on vacation at 11:00 at night to discuss buying a car. I got she was calling to leave a voice mail and didn’t expect me to answer. 

Anyway, we had counseling. Things got better. We never resolved this cheating thing though. I could never get it discussed. I did set a boundary of “No strip clubs and no contact with this other woman and no more secret relationships.” This spring, I found a credit card receipt from a year before (right after the worst of the issues but still in counseling and had made no strip club promise specifically for this trip). It was for $2300 in dancer bucks and $300 tip. There was a paragraph of how this can only be used for dancers and not food or drinks. It was signed by my husband in his handwriting on his personal credit card. This was a trip for the 4 business partners. He told me that two of them went to strip club and two of them went sight seeing. When I approached him with receipt, he said that a particular partner must have signed it but that was same partner who was supposedly with him. I didn’t push anymore. I figured he went out of peer pressure but lied because he knew I would be mad and we were in counseling and he didn’t want to make waves. Then last month, we were out at his game and my daughter and I were not feeling well, so went to car. We had been in there almost an hour, when my dd mentioned that his phone was showing same time the whole time had been there. So I picked it up and hit a button to see if I could fix it and out pops a text from him to a stripper (now supposedly ex-stripper) that he had met when I bartended her club. I forgot why he had given her his number years ago but now she was listed under her real name with her yahoo im and email listed. He’d always mentioned her calls before but it had been years and years. Anyway, he told me that she called because she hurt her foot and needed advice. I asked why someone would call a barely known computer tech for medical advice? Later the story changed to she was looking for work for her husband. That may have been true before the texts but the texts started with my husband texting her to see how her day was and asking about her foot and other non-professional stuff. I dropped it. We had argued several times that week and no point in making it worse. A few days later, I sent him an email asking for good dates for us to schedule a maintenance counseling appointment since it had been a year since we’d been and I was off that following week. It had been on my mind for a few months and I wasn’t thinking about stripper issue. He came home that night with the silent treatment. I pushed and he exploded that I was psycho jealous and he wasn’t living with me and my issues anymore. He stormed out. He came back later to get some stuff but left without a word. This time I didn’t go after him nor did I call the next day. He came the next late afternoon to get our son for camping trip. I asked him intentions and he said he was still leaving me. I said fine and asked to work out details. He said later so I went in other room. He came in and apologized and said that he “needs me to trust him.” I said we still need to talk about it. We could not get alone that weekend or following week. We were supposed to have a date to discuss it that following Friday but he canceled saying he didn’t feel well. Since then, we have not a good alone time and our counselor was out of town. Then last week, he left his phone at home. I have a new phone and haven’t put my numbers in so I had to look in his directory to get co-worker’s number to call and let him know. Well co-worker (also best friend and our roommate) name starts with R and my husband puts people in contacts by first name. OW’s last name starts with R and he had her there. He had her under first name before but deleted per our agreement. So I was shocked to see her back in there. I looked at the texts and sure enough, there was a series of texts from June. She apparently had called or emailed because he started the texts with “I’ve been thinking of you tons lately. What’s your surprise? She told him she was getting married and thought he ought to know. He said he was glad he told her and it made him happy but sad at same time. She said she knew the feeling. He said “Don’t let that get in your way of happiness and….. think of me.” She said “will do” and then he said “You are still my friend, nothing will change that”. Then a few more texts from him to her and her only reply was she was busy. Then he texted her on her wedding day to tell her to have a good day. It seemed stalker like to me.

I have not told him I found those texts. I’m waiting to confront him at counselor’s before he can come up with a good story to tell counselor. I can't deal with another rage and leaving and then pretending everything is okay.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Well he doesn't seem to be out and about healing the sick and feeding the homeless does he. Get a keylogger software installed on his computer and watch to see how high the BS piles up before making a decision.


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

I thought about that. However, he is a computer tech and would probably find it. He changes his laptop often for work related reasons.

He's a hard person to track
-cell phone is a company phone so I have no way of seeing bill. It rarely leaves his side.
-credit card bill does not come to house. I think it's online and I don't have password.
-only computer is laptop that he takes to work. He changes them often (pulls out hard drive to give customer his when their laptop breaks
-All his passwords are gibberish nonsense so I can't figure them out
-Has upteem email addresses, user names, etc that I can't keep up.
-Has me permanently seeing him offline when he is on Yahoo.
-His normal couch position makes it hard to walk by and see anything or even sit beside him.
-He keeps his office door locked at work (only one in office to do so) and even locks himself in when he's working (we occasionally work together).
-He travels a lot so a GPS tracker wouldn't prove to useful.

It's only been luck and diligence that I have what I have.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

In no way am I defending your husband - but it seems like you are caught up in trying to 'catch' him at something instead of dealing with the core issue: your marriage is in the tank - and he isn't terribly invested in fixing it.

So what's the point of trying to prove that he is straying? You know he _is_ straying. You have grown apart.

Do you want him around? And if yes, why?


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## Betty (Nov 18, 2009)

Deejo said:


> In no way am I defending your husband - but it seems like you are caught up in trying to 'catch' him at something instead of dealing with the core issue: your marriage is in the tank - and he isn't terribly invested in fixing it.
> 
> So what's the point of trying to prove that he is straying? You know he _is_ straying. You have grown apart.
> 
> Do you want him around? And if yes, why?


I agree with Deejo to an extent. I agree with that instead of trying to prove he is straying now, since you obviously know it, focus on getting more help, as in counseling, and figuring out if you want to make your marriage work. At the same time, however, don't shut down your instincts and ignore signs that he is giving you because that may lead you to "get used to" ignoring it, which will not help your marriage at all.

I am sorry you have to go through this and wish you the best of luck. Also, you are not a psycho- you are just feeling with your gut is telling you.


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

Oh I really don't "need" anything more evidence. I know it in my gut. I have more of a need to know that I am not crazy -that the majority of women would have issues with this. We had counseling for a year. He will admit nothing and repeats same lies he told me (except by time he sees counselor, he has his details straight). Everything is me blowing things out of proportion because I'm psycho jealous and he wouldn't have to sneak simple friendships if I wasn't so crazy and would just trust him. In his opinion, I'm the only woman in the world who have issues with the things I have issues with. I am abnormal in his opinion. Anyway, I have appointment with counselor on Friday and we both have one with same guy on Monday.

It's not the cheating that bothers me so much as the lies and the rages/leaving for spells when mad and the accusations that i am psycho.

As for why stay. Well, I am a homeschooling mother of two children. It would be EXTREMELY detrimental to put my kids in school (special cases and school can't meet academic needs for them. We tried). The kids, especially my Aspergers son, are very close to their father and he's a good dad. It would be devastating for all of us financially and emotionally. 

I do love this man. I have no idea why. He has good qualities deep down and we have a lot in common and our lives are so intertwined, it would be difficult to unwind the pieces. However, I think he needs help. I don't know why he has this need to seek female friendships that he hides for me. I suspect it is ego related. He has a strong need to always be right, always be the hero to every damsel in distress on the planet (except me. I'm not allowed to have problems), always be the expert. There is nothing he hasn't done and hasn't done better than everyone else. He's had every job, been everywhere (or is going to go soon), knows everything. He was always prone to exaggeration but now I never know when he's going to tell the truth. His best friend from 4th grade (who lives with us) told me that DH has changed in past few years and he doesn't know him anymore. Internet relationships seem to be his fave thing and I think that is because he can be the superstar as these women are not seeing his weak points -temper, pack rat tendencies, slobbiness, etc. Before me, he could never get the girl as he was always "too nice" and girls would reject him. He had one one night stand before me. That's it. His friends thought he was gay because he could get dates but could never close the deal. I was the bad girl, he was the nice guy. Who would have thought, it would turn out the opposite?


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

One of the things I am having trouble with is the anger and blame that is thrown in my direction.

FOr example, My husband is a slob. He is the messiest person I know. He procrastinates everything. He cleaned out his car for a vacation on 9/21 of this year. It is still sitting there today. He's always got an excuse why he can't move it. This is typical. It will likely be here in 6 months unless I move it or someone important to him (My family, friends, kids friends and parents of kids friends don't matter) comes to visit. Given that, I am supposed to except that he was so angry that he didn't talk to me for 3 days because the camping gear was still in living room after 2 days and I had not cleaned up from dinner while kids were still eating dinner and I was fixing vacuum. He so angry at the messy house that he refused to come and see what I spent the whole day doing (one-handed no less due to the injured hand).


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## Betty (Nov 18, 2009)

You are not abnormal. Many people have problems dealing with opposite sex relationship with their spouses. Stop putting the blame on yourself. Obviously your husband is doing something that causes you feel this way and you two just have not figure out how to help ease your feelings.

Did he come from a home where wife cleans and husband works? The reason I ask is about the slobbiness and his reaction to you not having a clean home. It sounds like he comes from a home where his mother was the 'housewife' and took care of her husband, household, and him as well.

Glad to hear you have a counseling appointment!! You're taking the first step to a healthier you and relationship and I applaud you for that.


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

We went to the counselor. I told him I knew he had spoken with OW. He denied. I told him that I just spoke to her that day. He continued to denied. I told him to give me his phone and pulled up the texts. His excuse was he forgot about that. He had some excuses for some of the items but others, he had no idea why he said it. I told him I knew of this lie (he ignored I said it) and he slipped up and revealed that he had seen her more than the one time that they both admitted to a few years ago. Finally someone other than me saw the lies.

He still denies it was an emotional affair. I don't know what else you call a 9 year relationship that started when you were in a adult chat while married, kept secret from your spouse the whole time, lied to your wife in order to go visit this woman over many years and lied to OW when you went (that he's separated, lied to your wife about this woman when discovered, includes term of affections like sweetheart, hidden email and IM accounts for communicating, taking phone to the bathroom to text, and discussing his marriage and her problems intimately while ignoring me. 

He has no compassion for my hurt.
He is still lying.
These relationships are not important to him, he doesn't even think about them. He gets the call in the day and forgets to tell me when he gets home. They're nothing to him.
He swears I don't let him have any female friends (or any friends at all now). Pointing out that he has plenty of female friends that I am okay with and that he goes out with his male friends way more than I go out with my female friends is pointless.
He says I said things I have never said. Apparantly if I ask a question in regards to a female, I mean he can't talk to that person again but he doesn't do that when I ask about his male friends. Asking a question is interpreted as me going psycho ballistic.
He tried the "You do it too" because he can't see the difference between a hidden relationship that is lied about and personal and one that is out in the open (no IM, cell, or email involved) and kept to academic discussions that he can view at anytime.
He has decided he will just sit in his office and not work until time to go home because a client might be female.
He can't understand why I don't trust him.

But he wants to stay married.

Counselor told him he had a lot of hard work ahead of him.


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## iwillsurvive (Mar 4, 2009)

It sounds like to me he is unwilling to change.

He wants to keep his marriage (or at least the person who cleans his house, does his laundry, takes care of his kids, etc)- the person who knows the REAL him, the person who knows his weaknesses and shortcomings AND he wants to have these other "relationships" and "friendships" where he can be the conquering hero, flirt, get an ego boost, etc. 

What it comes down to is what are YOU willing to live with? If he isn't willing to come clean or change then are you willing to live with him treating you this way? Calling you psycho? Leaving his mess everywhere? Telling you lies?

If you aren't, then you need to start making a plan. A plan that is best for you and your kids, both physically & emotionally. Tell your husband that you don't believe him and if he wants to work on his marriage he needs to take a polygraph to prove to you that he is telling the truth. If he refuses, put your plan into action and either kick him out or leave. As long as he thinks he can have the best of both worlds he will. 

Sadly, he won't admit it (even when caught) and he will put the blame on you. Personally I think the way he treats you and acts towards you is somewhat emotionally abusive, but that's only based on what I read, so I recognize that I could be wrong. But if this is the type of person he is, is it really worth staying married to him?


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## frozensprouts (Aug 1, 2009)

Biscuitmom,
you sound a lot like me ( I have two three kids- youngest with autism, oldest has aspbergers), my husband is a "computer techie"- except mine is one for the army, not self employed- this makes "catching them" doing stuff on the computer really hard, both our husbands have had "female friends" in the past and we've been okay with it, etc.).

One thing that I have noticed ( at least in my situation, which is different from yours) is that, in the end, getting eaten up with suspicion and paranoia can be really hard on you. My husband cheated, we got back together but he deployed for six months before I had gotten to a place where I felt I could really trust him again. After my kids went to bed and te house was quiet, i would drive myself crazy on the interent trying to see if I could find out if he and the woman he had cheated on me with were still seeing each other. it got so bad I almost hacked his GMail account, but I realized that I was really hurting myself by being so paranoid- and I didn't like the person I was turning into.

I am not saying that you shouldn't be suspicious of your husband, or that you shouldn't "snoop" or that your paranoia and fear have gotten the best of you. Only you can answer that. Just don't let yourself get the way I was- I couldn't eat, sleep or enjoy my kids anymore because I was so paranoid. i finally had to make myself stop.
( the good thing is it actually turned out that he wasn't in contact wirh her at all)


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks Everyone. I am still trying to figure out what I can live with. I could forgive him for messing up if he would actually confess and quit having secrets.


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

Well we are in a one step forward, two steps back phase.

Good
_He finally admitted to going to the strip club with the guys and spending $2600. This was after 4 different versions of the story and he swears only there an hour and sat in corner with hands crossed.
-He gave me all the passwords to his emails

Bad
-There were no emails from the woman he had EA with except where she forwarded jokes. I have a hard time accepting that one is friends with someone (Can tell her everything type of friend) and have no emails.
-Lots of invites from another girl to join various social networking sites. Google search of her name and IM shows that she is mostly on dating sites. This girl is 13 years younger than he and lives in my hometown and is a nursing student. He swears he has no idea of who she is. 
-Two messages in his sent box from June 2008 where he answered personnels on Craigslist. THey were not pickups but just comments about fantasies (nurse/cheerleader/threesome fantasy and a girls flashing guys on the road comment). They were made on same day that I know for a fact he worked posted an ad for work on Craigslist. He swears he did not send these and someone must of hacked into his yahoo email to do this or one of the guys at work knew his yahoo password (very unlikely) and did it. The one about flashing guys on the road started "From a guy who drives 50,000 miles...." which he says can't be him since he only drives 30,000 miles a year (but no one at work drives as much as he by any means). He swears he has no cheerleader fantasies or nurse fantasies.
-His secretary who was fired in 2007 was still in his yahoo IM list and had sent some social networking requests to him. There had been some rumors of affair with her at work and she is one who scratched up his back when he allegedly tried to keep her from driving drunk after company party. There is some proof to back that up (she emailed all employees to apologize). I just thought it odd that she was still on there and other secretaries who had come and gone had been removed. He says oversight and that could be but of all ones to have oversight on, kwim.
-He is still a member of swingers group though on no-mail. Now we both joined this together years ago when we were exploring fantasies but had decided to keep it at fantasy level and I deleted my membership shortly after. The only thing I see him talking about was answering some polls back in 2004 during that time frame. He may have forgotten that he is a member as it is only yahoo group he belongs too.


I think what bothers me most is I am a relatively open-minded woman. I used to be a stripper way before I met him so I know guys are visual etc. I don't care if he goes to strip clubs a couple times a year with the guys and gets dances. I only think it's a problem when you are going on a weekly basis or going by yourself and hiding it from your wife. Heck, I went to a strip club with him and had him come to the one I waitressed at and offered to buy him a lap dance or get one myself. I have stripped for him in past and would do so anytime. If he wants to watch a porn movie, pop in. I would watch it. Heck, I would make one with him for his private viewing. There is no need to sneek it but we've never watched one together because he says he's not into that. I bought him Playboy subscription for first years of our marriage and we used to race to find the bunny and read and laugh at jokes. I only stopped because of budget issues and well now kids are too old to have it come in mail box. You want a nurse, a cheerleader, etc. I would dress up in heartbeat and have begged for years for some roleplaying fun but he swears he's not in to that. He doesn't have any fantasies but a threesome (and only watching me and another at that). You want to look at personnels just to see what people are doing -fine as long as we do it together. I just don't like it being done behind my back while you claim that you are not into it. I've told him numerous times that I am open to just about anything except bringing a 3rd party in (physically), and some of the more out there stuff like golden showers and mutilation. I have shared many fantasies with him and he doesn't want to do them. You want to talk and get female perspective, talk to me. You need more than I can give, at least keep the friendships in the open so I know that it's really just friends. I don't like him talking to someone else all day at work or all night after I go to bed and ignoring me when you are home. 

Then there is blaming me for his not having friends. It's true, I don't care for his co-workers. They are all alcholics and cheaters. He doesn't really like them but they are only ones he knows since he doesn't go to church with us, interact with the other dads at kid's activities (He sits in corner and reads and yells at me if I talk more than 10 minutes to someone), and won't go out and talk with neighbors, etc. However, he still goes out on a regular basis (at least once a month) and I only get upset when he is getting home later than he says (like he will tell me he is going to bar around corner with 1 guy and be home at 10 and he ends up in a bar in next town over with all the guys and home at 4 AM and mad because I called at 11 to ask if I should wait up or go on to bed or when he gets home at 5AM after driving 4-5 people home all over city and then next day spent making sure the kids and I tiptoe around house while he sleeps all morning and then he's off in the afternoon taking them to get cars). He goes out socially way more than I do (bars, strip clubs, hockey games, lunches, dinners, movies, arcades, business partners weekends, poker games, etc. compared to my meet the girls once a month at Panera/Christian coffee shop/someones home and back by 11 at the latest, church, and whatever chit chat happens with ohter parents at the kid's activities). He won't socialize outside his work circle that he hates, won't help fix up the house so we can have people over, and doesn't care to do anything with me but our one monthly date that is dinner only or occasional movie -all planned by me, child care arranged by me, etc. and I'm the one to blame that he has no social life and that is why he has to sneak friendships with only girls behind my back.


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

I am really at the end of my rope. I just don't know what to do next. I can not take the lying and the sneaking. I won't ever get the truth from him. He will deny, lie, and blame and only own up to what he has to own up to because he's faced with evidence and even then try to twist that.

I love him and I want what is best for my kids but honestly, I don't know how much more I can take. I can not move forward without absolute truth. I just can't build our marriage back up on lies and deception. We tried it once and we are back where we started.

Sigh. It's probably a good thing it's Christmas. I don't have the heart to ask for a divorce right before Christmas because it's not a memory that I want for myself, for him, or for the children.


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

We had a meeting with counselor today. Counselor finally acknowledge to DH that what he had was an affair and that he knew that going into it because I had said years before when I caught him before that I felt that secret internet friendships with opposite sex were affairs. He knew that and hid it and lied a bout it. My husband said he didn't care what I thought about the relationship, he didn't nothing wrong, and he doesn't care if it hurt me or not.


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## GlowinWish (Sep 10, 2010)

I am sorry you had to hear this from him but glad you are getting the absolute truth you have been wanting, even if it's not desirable. You got it "straight from the horse's mouth" that he does not care what you think or if what he does hurts you. What have you done since your last post? It is so sad that there are too many men out there who are simply too selfish, ill-willed, prideful, and too much of a coward underneath it all to do what's right with their lives and to realize and understand the value of the loyalty women like you give to their undeserving bodies. I hope you have gotten what you needed to muster up the strength to free yourself and never again allow for someone else, especially a coward like him, to define you as something you are not (jealous, psycho, etc), when you are truly just a woman following your very true and honest female intuition that he just wasn't right and wasn't right for TOO long.


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## Anonny123 (Aug 11, 2010)

Biscuit - I think my husband is a lot like yours and my therapist has pointed out that I need to get away from the obsession of "catching him" - bottom line is he's disrespecting you. 

Deejo hits ot on the head - seek the reason this is going on - you've probably grown apart. Ask yourself if you can live with a man like. I have learned that I can't. Just having a hard time letting go of my obsession to catch him and figuring out how to tell him it's over. 

best of luck!


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