# Dear Prudence: Husband caught her cheating and now wants an open marriage.



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Prudence gives the reader good advice, the reader really seems to lack remorse. 

____________________________________________

Q. Husband Wants an Open Marriage: A few months ago, my husband uncovered an affair I was having with an old flame. He moved out and initiated divorce proceedings, but in the time since, I was able to convince him that I am truly repentant and to give our marriage another chance for the sake of our children. The problem I have now is that he says that if we are to stay married, he wants it to be an open marriage. I've tried to tell him that I've gotten that out of my system and I don't want to be with anybody other than him, but he says there just isn't any way he can ever trust me again, he doesn't feel an obligation to be faithful to me anymore, and at least this way we're being honest about it. Prudie, it makes me ill to think about him being with another woman. I just want things to go back to how they used to be. How can I convince him that we need to be completely committed to each other in order for this to work?

A: I assume you were the little girl who wouldn't let anyone else play with your toys, but you insisted on hogging everyone else's. I agree that couples can have various understandings about fidelity, but the key is being in agreement. It's perfectly understandable that the betrayed partner in a formerly monogamous relationship might want to step out him or herself. But this kind of score-settling is unlikely to heal the breach. But you have some nerve demanding that "things go back to how they used to be." You strayed and only found religion upon being discovered. It sounds as if without the affair being revealed you would have been perfectly happy with a seemingly placid marriage and a reignited flame on the side. Whatever happens, things will never be just as they used to be, and that is the first lesson you need to truly absorb. Especially when there are children involved, I don't think the dissolution of a marriage should be the natural consequence of a single instance of infidelity. But you seem to want no consequences for your actions. It could be that you and your husband should simply be separated for a while—without the threat of divorce hanging over your heads—to see how each of you feel about this new status. While you do that, I will naturally recommend couples counseling. It sounds as if you both need a third party to help you communicate and to hold a mirror up to the consequences of each of your actions.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Female imperative writ large.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Yeah, but does he get to fool around while they are separated? Prudence dodged that bullet.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

She had an affair and got caught. Now he needs to decide whether he wants to forgive her and stay monogamous (the whole point of a marriage) or move on. Sounds like he would rather move on. I agree with Prudence that they should try MC, but it sounds like the H just wants to get with other women. The marriage sounds over.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

First I'll start by saying boo hoo you had an affair your husband found out and now you want to go back in time pre adultery lol please sounds like what she really wants to do is sweep this whole thing under the rug but she can't because her husband want some extra-marital fun too and we can't have that can we....

It never ceases to amaze me the logic that cheaters have they have no problems rationalizing throwing away their marriage and shacking up with someone else but the minute their spouse what's do the same there the bad guy as well I'm sorry dear cheater but you waive the right for a monogamous relationship with your decision to screw other people if she doesn't like then she should do the honorable and decent thing for a change by filing for divorce letting her husband free 

Just my 2 cents/rant


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Yeah, but does he get to fool around while they are separated? Prudence dodged that bullet.


From the way the reader phrased things it sounds more like her husband is trying to punish her verbally than actually have an affair. In my experience the guys who talk the loudest usually do the least. If he was serious about having an affair he would have pulled the trigger without consulting anyone. His "open marriage" tirade is just hot air IMO. The wife however sounds like a real piece of work using terms like "its out of my system".


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I've tried to tell him that I've gotten that out of my system and I don't want to be with anybody other than him, but Prudie, it makes me ill to think about him being with another woman.


 The above is the killer. She got it out of her system and she gets ill thinking about her husband with another woman.

Maybe if she would have gotten ill about thinking about having another man in her bed and kept her knees together, she wouldn't be in this situation.

I think the guy should just move on rather then create more turmoil in the marriage.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

6301 said:


> The above is the killer. She got it out of her system and she gets ill thinking about her husband with another woman.
> 
> Maybe if she would have gotten ill about thinking about having another man in her bed and kept her knees together, she wouldn't be in this situation.
> 
> I think the guy should just move on rather then create more turmoil in the marriage.


:iagree:

Talk about an entitled princess.


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

Yeah she got it out of her system all right so now her husband just should trust her and move on. What's he saying ? The pain, humiliation, the mind movies, gaslighting and lies ? Forget those stuff and let's pretend it never happen cause i'm a changed woman 

She shows no empathy at all with EQ as low as 0. Hope her husband knows about this letter. It'll make it easier for him to leave


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"The wife however sounds like a real piece of work using terms like "its out of my system"."

Yep....that's a statement worthy of instant walking papers in my book.

If I were her BH, I'd let her know that what I wanted out of my system was any thought or emotion even remotely tied to her.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

See it's ceases like these where im in favor of revenge affairs some people don't understand playing with fire is dangerous tell they get brun and understand fully how it feels.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

ariel_angel77 said:


> She had an affair and got caught. Now he needs to decide whether he wants to forgive her and stay monogamous (the whole point of a marriage) or move on. Sounds like he would rather move on. I agree with Prudence that they should try MC, but it sounds like the H just wants to get with other women. The marriage sounds over.


Sexual monogamy from the _female_ is the whole point of marriage. Of course the H wants other women. The expectation of sexual monogamy on the part of the H is an innovation. The wife broke the marriage contract where the H agreed, to his modern detriment, to be sexually monogamous. That contract is toast, why would he want to go back to it?

If I was that guy, I would say, "Honey, meet Tiffany, your new sister-wife."


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

xakulax said:


> See it's ceases like these where im in favor of revenge affairs some people don't understand playing with fire is dangerous tell they get brun and understand fully how it feels.


I would have zero sympathy for the wife if the husband went out and bedded down the entire squad of Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

6301 said:


> The above is the killer. She got it out of her system and she gets ill thinking about her husband with another woman.


How else could it be, in our new feral world. The woman has a fundamental drive to mate with the highest ranking (most attractive) man she can in order to produce the most viable offspring. She has a beta-provider husband to provide for her bastards, but she does not want the beta-provider inseminating other potential mothers whose offspring might draw his resources away from her own offspring, thus limiting their children's options. This is pretty fundamental stuff.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I would have zero sympathy for the wife if the husband went out and bedded down the entire squad of Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders.



:iagree:



And before any one asks I feel the same way if genders where reverse


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

xakulax said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> 
> And before any one asks I feel the same way if genders where reverse


:iagree: The best course of action would be to be done with the wife and then do what he wants.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ariel_angel77 said:


> She had an affair and got caught. Now he needs to decide whether he wants to forgive her and stay monogamous *(the whole point of a marriage)* or move on. Sounds like he would rather move on. I agree with Prudence that they should try MC, but it sounds like the H just wants to get with other women. The marriage sounds over.


It's a point of most marriages but it's not the definition of marriage. The guy in this story's saying, he doesn't trust his wife enough to consider reconciliation. Who knows, he may build trust over time and this will be his way of rationalizing not leaving until he figures out if he can or not.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

It was only a few months since hubby learned of the affair. He isn't punishing her. He is still trying to come up with a way to save it and find equity. Just cause that way hurts doesn't mean it is to punish.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> It's a point of most marriages but it's not the definition of marriage. The guy in this story's saying, he doesn't trust his wife enough to consider reconciliation. Who knows, he may build trust over time and this will be his way of rationalizing not leaving until he figures out if he can or not.


With the way his wife talks about wanting things to go back to the way they were before and that it is out of her system I do not know how he lives with her.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> It was only a few months since hubby learned of the affair. He isn't punishing her. He is still trying to come up with a way to save it and find equity. Just cause that way hurts doesn't mean it is to punish.


And she is definitely not helping matters.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Phuck that chick...she doesn't like the fact that her old man wants to bang other chicks!!!!!
From were I'm sitting the b1tch is a cake eater and unremorseful. I mean when I was going thru this crap my old lady was willing to take the consequences in me screwing another women...but no way in hell I'm going to let her off that easy....

If the women in the artical has to be in a open marriage or walk around in a leather collor that has "slave" on it...it will be her choice to except the consequences for her actions.

And if one can't face the consequences for their actions , well then how remorsefull are they?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> With the way his wife talks about wanting things to go back to the way they were before and that it is out of her system I do not know how he lives with her.


Because she convinced him to come back "for the sake of our children." He missed his kids. Assuming they're his kids, of course. Big assumption.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I would have zero sympathy for the wife if the husband went out and bedded down the entire squad of Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders.


San Diego Chargers have better cheerleader IMHO

In fact my old lady would like to watch me try bedding down a squad...hell she knows given the op I'd give it my best shot1

Point being we both know *it* will never be the same....Mrs the-guy knows it and I know it.

The women in the artical is a fool...just like so many other waywards.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> Because she convinced him to come back "for the sake of our children." He missed his kids. Assuming they're his kids, of course. Big assumption.


Wait a minute....the guy in the articial had the balls to tell his old lady to phuck off I'm going to bang other chicks.

"coming back" is not exactly what this BS is doing IMO...I think he is rewriting the rules and being honest about it and the WW can take it or leave it.

The poor guy could have kept his pie hole shut and had a RA.

BTW were is MATT.
Cuz this arttical has RA written all over it.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

the guy said:


> *San Diego Chargers have better cheerleader IMHO*


I'm going to have to put my vote with USC..


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

the guy said:


> Wait a minute....the guy in the articial had the balls to tell his old lady to phuck off I'm going to bang other chicks.
> 
> "coming back" is not exactly what this BS is doing IMO...I think he is rewriting the rules and being honest about it and the WW can take it or leave it.


Remember, the guy moved out and filed D on her ass. Then she talked him back in "for the kids" and he agreed with the open marriage stipulation. She probably figured she could talk him out of that, but my guess is he's holding firm.



the guy said:


> The poor guy could have kept his pie hole shut and had a RA.


No, I like his way: this is the new marriage contract, take it or leave it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

xakulax said:


> I'm going to have to put my vote with USC..


The Chargers cheerleaders are just too old. These girls are at their peak.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> With the way his wife talks about wanting things to go back to the way they were before and that it is out of her system I do not know how he lives with her.


You know the script TS. He wants to believe her and she probably even believes what she's saying.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> The Chargers cheerleaders are just too old. These girls are at their peak.


screw you Mach....

I'll take an "older" squad versus a skinny little cricket squad

BTW whens presession


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Thundarr said:


> You know the script TS. He wants to believe her and she probably even believes what she's saying.


aint that the truth


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> You know the script TS. He wants to believe her and *she probably even believes what she's saying.*


Yes. Right now he's the got the power so she's attracted to him. If women start picking him up, she's going to be panting after him. When he gets it out of his system and decides to settle back down, she'll lose attraction and start the cycle again.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

the guy said:


> screw you Mach....
> 
> I'll take an "older" squad versus a skinny little cricket squad
> 
> BTW whens presession


Don't know. I got over my NFL addiction instantly the day Hillbilly Jones bought the Cowboys.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> . The wife however sounds like a real piece of work using terms like "its out of my system".



"System" is obviously some kind of euphemism for things like "vagina and mouth, etc". 

She had a hankerin' for some strange. But now she is sated. Until the next opportunity arises, and then pesky things like spouses, families, and so on won't stop her. Because it's all about how she happens to be feeling at the time. Right now, hankerin' non-existent.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

the guy said:


> screw you mach....
> 
> i'll take an "older" squad versus a skinny little cricket squad
> 
> *btw whens presession*




sun, aug 3 Buffalo at NY Giants Hall of Fame


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

I hope I'm not posting in the guy zone, I followed a specific member over here from another post he made that I found intriguing. Anyway, I fully agree with the sentiments expressed here. I think she is attracted to him again because he has the power, and if he backs down, she will be unsatisfied and want to stray again. He needs to keep her on a leash. 

But on a side note, is there a way for a guy who is an alpha with friends and at work but a beta with a wife who craves submitting, to learn to be more dominating? I am weak when I think of submitting, I am so sick of being the initiator. I stop initiation and we stop having sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I do not believe that reconciling for the sake of the kids is always best, sometimes maybe. However, getting back together and setting the example of an open marriage for the kids to be raised in... yuck.


If he cant forgive- then D and move on with life.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> She had an affair and got caught. Now he needs to decide whether he wants to forgive her and stay monogamous (the whole point of a marriage) or move on. Sounds like he would rather move on. I agree with Prudence that they should try MC, but it sounds like the H just wants to get with other women. The marriage sounds over.


Wife had affair..Must blame the husband somehow..


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

TimeHeals said:


> "System" is obviously some kind of euphemism for things like "vagina and mouth, etc".
> 
> She had a hankerin' for some strange. But now she is sated. Until the next opportunity arises, and then pesky things like spouses, families, and so on won't stop her. Because it's all about how she happens to be feeling at the time. Right now, hankerin' non-existent.


:iagree::iagree:


Which is the primary reason why I feel the monogamous portion of the marriage should be voided or the marriage terminated one of the other.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Im guessing she misunderstood what his idea of an open marriage is going to be.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Yes. Right now he's the got the power so she's attracted to him. If women start picking him up, she's going to be panting after him. When he gets it out of his system and decides to settle back down, she'll lose attraction and start the cycle again.


Couldn't it be argued that someone like this isn't even worth R to begin with?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> How else could it be, in our new feral world. The woman has a fundamental drive to mate with the highest ranking (most attractive) man she can in order to produce the most viable offspring. She has a beta-provider husband to provide for her bastards, but she does not want the beta-provider inseminating other potential mothers whose offspring might draw his resources away from her own offspring, thus limiting their children's options. This is pretty fundamental stuff.


 I agree if were all a bunch of dinosaurs or animals on the Serengeti but were supposed to be civilized human beings that have brains that were made to be used to reason and think.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

6301 said:


> I agree if were all a bunch of dinosaurs or animals on the Serengeti but were supposed to be civilized human beings that have brains that were made to be used to reason and think.


Except for cheating spouses...were the phuck are there brains when they screw around on us....were is there civility when they break their vows?

Cheaters are animals...brainless POS that should die of thirst on the Serengeti!

I made my self laugh again.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

=9588714]:iagree::iagree:


Which is the primary reason why I feel the monogamous portion of the marriage should be voided or the marriage terminated one of the other.[/QUOTE]

:iagree:

For me you hit it right on the head. Once they find out, the BS should declare the fidelity vows void, on the spot. I think all R should be undertaken on that basis. This will give the BS time to think about what they ultimately want to do but in the meantime keep the family intact on terms that are fair to both partners.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Godot said:


> But on a side note, is there a way for a guy who is an alpha with friends and at work but a beta with a wife who craves submitting, to learn to be more dominating? I am weak when I think of submitting, I am so sick of being the initiator. I stop initiation and we stop having sex.


How old are you two?

What's his taste in porn?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Im guessing she misunderstood what his idea of an open marriage is going to be.


LOL. She thought she_ already had_ an open marriage. Just on her gate.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Couldn't it be argued that someone like this isn't even worth R to begin with?


That's why I say, if no kids, go straight to divorce with any WW. The only reason to even consider R is for the kids. But, as we see, nothing makes a BH hotter, quicker in the eyes of his WW like making D papers magically appear out of thin air at the snap of his fingers.

I think the BH in the story has exactly the right handle on the situation if his definition of "open marriage" is closed for her and open for him. She'll be in heaven with all the drama and the thrills and spills she can look forward to her as she fights for her newly high status super attractive man that all the other women want. If he doesn't go overboard and actually learns good harem management, she'll love him like never before.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Is there a good book on "good harem management"?

Please tell me !!!!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

6301 said:


> I agree if were all a bunch of dinosaurs or animals on the Serengeti but were supposed to be civilized human beings that have brains that were made to be used to reason and think.


We are mammals whose primary function on this planet is to reproduce. Our sex lives are driven by the limbic brain, which controls the four "F"s: Feeding, Fighting, Fleeing, and Fookin'. The prefrontal cortex can act as a brake on this drive and that's why we call it Free Will. You either use your brakes or you don't. As we know, about half the married women like to drive fast, sooner or later.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

the guy said:


> Is there a good book on "good harem management"?
> 
> Please tell me !!!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> "The wife however sounds like a real piece of work using terms like "its out of my system"."
> 
> Yep....that's a statement worthy of instant walking papers in my book.
> 
> If I were her BH, I'd let her know that what I wanted out of my system was any thought or emotion even remotely tied to her.


What about when it gets back in her system again?:scratchhead:


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> What about when it gets back in her system again?:scratchhead:


:iagree: Her attitude makes reconciliation near impossible. After cheating things can't go back to the way they were nor should they. I really don't think the reader realizes the full extent of what she's done.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Godot said:


> . I think she is attracted to him again because he has the power, and if he backs down, she will be unsatisfied and want to stray again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I firmly believe that you should not make a threat unless you intend to follow through on it. If you don't you will look foolish and weak. Best to keep your mouth shut and plan for what YOU want to do then hurl threats you don't intend to follow through on.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> How old are you two?
> 
> What's his taste in porn?


I don't want to derail the thread, I have one I started a few months back, if you want to post there. 
35 (me) and 40. He is into barely legal, milfs, according to his internet searches... BJs, big floppy boobs, We don't watch porn together because I don't think it is hot.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Godot said:


> I don't want to derail the thread, I have one I started a few months back, if you want to post there.
> 35 (me) and 40. *He is into barely legal, milfs, according to his internet searches... BJs, big floppy boobs,* We don't watch porn together because I don't think it is hot.


These things kind of oppose each other.

Barley legal and MILF is odd. Usually "MILFs" are in their late 20's in to their 40's. And "big floppy boobs" would be more likely found on an older than "barely legal" gal.

I feel for you young lady. I'm always surprised when I hear a Wife saying that their Husband doesn't initiate sex enough. I just don't understand it.

I have to wonder if he's looking a porn a little too much and it's now skewed what he finds desirable in a woman physically...


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## Singleton (May 30, 2013)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Barley legal and MILF is odd. Usually "MILFs" are in their late 20's in to their 40's. And "big floppy boobs" would be more likely found on an older than "barely legal" gal.


I think that this guy simply likes women of all ages. He searched "big floppy boobs" because he has not heard of GILFs  

Regarding the original post: I'd let the cheating wife go. She will quickly find what her true market value is. Husband should not waste money on MC. He should save it to get a new car.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Singleton said:


> I think that this guy simply likes women of all ages. He searched "big floppy boobs" because he has not heard of GILFs
> 
> *Regarding the original post: I'd let the cheating wife go. She will quickly find what her true market value is. Husband should not waste money on MC. He should save it to get a new car.*


:rofl:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


>


Actually Mach, the Koran would be a better choice.

Abraham sucked as the leader of a harem...he knocked up Rachel's handmaiden and then cast her out in the desert when Rachel finally had a baby. 

Issac, Jacob and David were all piss poor managers of their wives and concubines....


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Singleton said:


> I think that this guy simply likes women of all ages. He searched "big floppy boobs" because he has not heard of GILFs
> 
> Regarding the original post: I'd let the cheating wife go. She will quickly find what her true market value is. Husband should not waste money on MC. He should save it to get a new car.


Yes. A very fast, cool sports car.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Yes. A very fast, cool sports car.


The reader's husband needs to do things for himself to heal - whatever that may be and with whoever it may be with . She wants her old life back after she had her fun - he'd be a fool to allow her to have her old life back.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> Sexual monogamy from the _female_ is the whole point of marriage. Of course the H wants other women. The expectation of sexual monogamy on the part of the H is an innovation. The wife broke the marriage contract where the H agreed, to his modern detriment, to be sexually monogamous. That contract is toast, why would he want to go back to it?
> 
> If I was that guy, I would say, "Honey, meet Tiffany, your new sister-wife."


If I were that guy I'd leave her in the dust and go find a quality woman worthy of trust and respect.

Why have people in your life that aren't?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"What about when it gets back in her system again?"

Matt,

My point was that her BH should remove her from his system by dumping her ASAP after an attitude like that...hence my reference to walking papers.

After kicking her to the curb, who gives a f*ck what desires she ever has in her system ever again.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> That's why I say, if no kids, go straight to divorce with any WW. The only reason to even consider R is for the kids.


:iagree:

My feelings as well. This is my formula:

*C < 0 = ID*

Where C = Children, and ID is for immediate divorce.

No ifs, not pleading, no R. Just D. There's plenty of fish in the ocean.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> My feelings as well. This is my formula:
> 
> ...



I honestly think most cases of reconciliation are due to kids quite frankly remove that from the equation and divorce is the likely out come.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

xakulax said:


> I honestly think most cases of reconciliation are due to kids quite frankly remove that from the equation and divorce is the likely out come.


I'd argue that most cases of marital infidelity occur because of kids too. If you're unhappy with your spouse, don't think things will get better and you don't have kids together, then I'd say the couple likely divorces instead of cheat. However, if kids are factored in, I'd say people cheat as a way to escape a poor marriage, and that the alternative of divorce is undesirable due to the distaste for being a part time parent.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

xakulax said:


> I honestly think most cases of reconciliation are due to kids quite frankly remove that from the equation and divorce is the likely out come.


That is an interesting point. I wonder in how many cases where there are no children the BS would just throw in the towel and move on. With children it is so messy since you have to deal wit the other person for the rest of your life. Also the thought of your spouse bringing home new boyfriends/girlfriends and introducing them to the kids - that has to be awful as well.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Actually Mach, the Koran would be a better choice.
> 
> Abraham sucked as the leader of a harem...he knocked up Rachel's handmaiden and then cast her out in the desert when Rachel finally had a baby.
> 
> Issac, Jacob and David were all piss poor managers of their wives and concubines....


Those stories tell you what works and doesn't work in a story form. Even a kid (an intelligent kid) reading it for the first time, can go "dumb move" even before he knows how it's going to turn out. The example you cite of Abe is a good one: all these guys had pretty low impulse control, but Abe sent Hagar and Ishmael away per God's instructions. However, you are correct that Abe should have kept Sarah on a much tighter reign. Also, Abe lent her out a couple of times, so his Alpha status was not what it should have been.

BTW, Abe's primary wife was Sarah.

As for the Koran, it caps full wives at four, although it's true that there are no limits on concubines and slave girls; _"those captives that your right hands possess."_


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

marduk said:


> If I were that guy I'd leave her in the dust and go find a quality woman worthy of trust and respect.
> 
> Why have people in your life that aren't?


Generally, this is true, but it all depends on the kid situation; age, number, sensibilities. That all has to be balanced against the standard WW's particular mix of bipolar, borderline, NPD, sexual depravity, and general shrewishness.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'd argue that most cases of marital infidelity occur because of kids too. If you're unhappy with your spouse, don't think things will get better and you don't have kids together, then I'd say the couple likely divorces instead of cheat. However, if kids are factored in, I'd say people cheat as a way to escape a poor marriage, and that the alternative of divorce is undesirable due to the distaste for being a part time parent.


In the younger age ranges, I've known many women without kids who wanted to play around and many young couples without kids who divorced after sexual betrayal.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> That is an interesting point. I wonder in how many cases where there are no children the BS would just throw in the towel and move on. With children it is so messy since you have to deal wit the other person for the rest of your life. Also the thought of your spouse bringing home new boyfriends/girlfriends and introducing them to the kids - that has to be awful as well.



Very true one of my best friends since high school is staying in his dysfunctional marriage for that very same reason he loves his kids and doesn't want some stranger rising them I think both male and female betrayed spouses weights this when making the decision to reconcile think about it when was the last time you heard a betrayed spouse reconcile with a wayward who was a bad parents and also a bad provider/care giver..


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Couldn't it be argued that someone like this isn't even worth R to begin with?


Ahhh, but this is the conundrum isn't it? What makes her "the one" who shouldn't have a chance at reconciliation? 
Is it the spouse who had a drunken one night stand?
Is it the one who only had an emotional affair?
Is it the one who only engages in sexting?
Is it the serial cheater who shows huge remorse?

All affairs can be argued for or against reconciliation, it is up to the parties involved to make a decision. If the betrayed wants a ridiculous stipulation, then the cheater needs to decide if they can handle the request. Yes, this includes normal or outrageous stipulations.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

xakulax said:


> Very true one of my best friends since high school is staying in his dysfunctional marriage for that very same reason he loves his kids and doesn't want some stranger rising them I think both male and female betrayed spouses weights this when making the decision to reconcile think about it when was the last time you heard a betrayed spouse reconcile with a wayward who was a bad parents and also a bad provider/care giver..


I could see staying at least until the kids turn 18. It must be an agonizing situation to be in.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> Generally, this is true, but it all depends on the kid situation; age, number, sensibilities. That all has to be balanced against the standard WW's particular mix of bipolar, borderline, NPD, sexual depravity, and general shrewishness.


As a kid raised by divorced parents, I'd rather be raised by two happy people that are apart than two unhappy people that were together.

9/10 marriages that I've seen people try to stay together because of the kids it's been out of a lack of courage and willingness to be a victim and 10/10 times it didn't last more than a few years.

I'm watching the 10th unravel as we speak.

Funny how the kids don't seem to matter so much when one unhappy person calls it quits... then it's war time and the kids are the pawns.

Sigh.

When you're done, be done. For the SAKE of the kids.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> In the younger age ranges, I've known many women without kids who wanted to play around and many young couples without kids who divorced after sexual betrayal.


As I was saying to my wife the other weekend...

Men seem to find a reason to cheat, and then do so.

Women seem to cheat, and then find a reason why they did.

But that's me.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

marduk said:


> As I was saying to my wife the other weekend...
> 
> Men seem to find a reason to cheat, and then do so.
> 
> ...


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

marduk said:


> As a kid raised by divorced parents, I'd rather be raised by two happy people that are apart than two unhappy people that were together.
> 
> 9/10 marriages that I've seen people try to stay together because of the kids it's been out of a lack of courage and willingness to be a victim and 10/10 times it didn't last more than a few years.
> 
> ...


Kids don't need mom and dad pretending for them anyway. They grow up and handle life better when they had a realistic childhood where everyone's life doesn't revolve around them. A lot of people really cripple their kids by not thinking.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Re: Dear Prudence: Husband caught her cheating and now wants an open marriage.*



marduk said:


> As a kid raised by divorced parents, I'd rather be raised by two happy people that are apart than two unhappy people that were together.
> 
> 9/10 marriages that I've seen people try to stay together because of the kids it's been out of a lack of courage and willingness to be a victim and 10/10 times it didn't last more than a few years.


My mom put me in preschool when I was 3yo at the local JC so that she could start college. She wanted to get a degree so that she could leave my dad and still have a way to support her 4 kids - I am the youngest. My dad's affair started my junior year... then my senior yr they had an especially explosive argument. The next day my dad was gone- moved in with his AP who lived a couple blocks away. The fought a lot, we're emotionally unavailable, and completely unreliable for anything beyond a place to sleep. They worked opposite shifts for years to avoid interaction.

Parents that stay that long (and can't live as friends) for the kids do them a tremendous disservice. 

This woman is ridiculous.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> My mom put me in preschool when I was 3yo at the local JC so that she could start college. She wanted to get a degree so that she could leave my dad and still have a way to support her 4 kids - I am the youngest. My dad's affair started my junior year... then my senior yr they had an especially explosive argument. The next day my dad was gone- moved in with his AP who lived a couple blocks away. The fought a lot, we're emotionally unavailable, and completely unreliable for anything beyond a place to sleep. They worked opposite shifts for years to avoid interaction.
> 
> Parents that stay that long (and can't live as friends) for the kids do them a tremendous disservice.
> 
> *This woman is ridiculous*.


Yeah she truly does not understand what she has done.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Yeah she truly does not understand what she has done.


Oh, I think she does.

She just doesn't care.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

marduk said:


> Oh, I think she does.
> 
> She just doesn't care.


Bingo!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Oh, I think she does.
> 
> *She just doesn't care.*


Good point she sounds like a cake eater...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

marduk said:


> Funny how the kids don't seem to matter so much when one unhappy person calls it quits... then it's war time and the kids are the pawns.
> 
> Sigh.


:iagree:

Tell me about it. I have to deal with this freaking stuff every day, 365 days of the year. But most especially Fridays thru Mondays.

When the other parent has the kids, then it's

"He's/She's doing drugs!" - So they use the police to harass the other parent. Mostly women call this in.

"He's abusing the kid(s)!" - Again, mostly women call this in

"He/She won't give me back my kid(s)!" - Both men and women call this in, but the majority are women.

"He's/She's late returning MY children! I want him/her arrested!" -The vast majority of the time, it's the woman that calls this in.

"I want the police there when I get my kid(s) because he's violent!" - Guess who calls these in.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Tell me about it. I have to deal with this freaking stuff every day, 365 days of the year. But most especially Fridays thru Mondays.
> 
> ...


Cheaters seldom think about w3hat they are doing to their children. I know this first hand.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> Sexual monogamy from the _female_ is the whole point of marriage. Of course the H wants other women. The expectation of sexual monogamy on the part of the H is an innovation. The wife broke the marriage contract where the H agreed, to his modern detriment, to be sexually monogamous. That contract is toast, why would he want to go back to it?
> 
> If I was that guy, I would say, "Honey, meet Tiffany, your new sister-wife."


Hah! I cant like this enough dude! +1


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

The BS shouldn't undervalue themselves which is hard when your partner cheats. The readers husband needs to get his self-worth back before he can even begin to decide on what to do with her and their marriage.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

It is interesting because I'd love to hear his side. The "open marriage" comment sounds like things people have said here on TAM. Makes you wonder if dude is posting somewhere on the net.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I didn't go rah rah on the open marriage concept, because in my experience an open marriage is usually the wife getting boned by 5 new dudes a week and the guy maybe hooking up every six months.

Casual sex is a lot easier to come by for women, in general. Hence open marriages are a real raw deal for dudes. Plus the husband gets to help provide, babysit, and all the junk that comes with being a single dad... with a side order of watching your wife walk out the door to do some random guy.

Seen two close up and personal. Both chicks racked up double digits of new guys a year. And that's what they would admit to.

Both ended up in total flaming disaster of course.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> I didn't go rah rah on the open marriage concept, because in my experience an open marriage is usually the wife getting boned by 5 new dudes a week and the guy maybe hooking up every six months.
> 
> *Casual sex is a lot easier to come by for women, in general. Hence open marriages are a real raw deal for dudes.* Plus the husband gets to help provide, babysit, and all the junk that comes with being a single dad... with a side order of watching your wife walk out the door to do some random guy.
> 
> ...


:iagree: That is why I think the reader's husband is just blowing hot air about the open marriage.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

It comes up here as a subtle threat, not as any real choice or Idea. Spouse comes here upset, betrayed shows zero remorse, actually says something like "it's over, move along" and someone here suggests "ask if they want an open marriage, then watch their reaction."

If the question is asked, more often than not, the reaction is exactly like the letter writer. They show indignation, rage and "how dare you even think about.....cheating." LOL.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

marduk said:


> I didn't go rah rah on the open marriage concept, because in my experience an open marriage is usually the wife getting boned by 5 new dudes a week and the guy maybe hooking up every six months.
> 
> Casual sex is a lot easier to come by for women, in general. Hence open marriages are a real raw deal for dudes. Plus the husband gets to help provide, babysit, and all the junk that comes with being a single dad... with a side order of watching your wife walk out the door to do some random guy.
> 
> ...





Not true you could try swinging that evens the odds in the husband favor you can also make the stipulation that he can see who ever he wants and she can't or it's divorce ville If the wayward spouse doesn't like then they can sign the divorce papers and go on their marry way for the betrayed spouse is win win for the wayward its consequences for breaking the marital contract...



PS: Oh And by the way the whole banging Five Guys a week could be a good thing because I don't think custody court judges like having kids living with people who enjoy gang bangs..


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree: That is why I think the reader's husband is just blowing hot air about the open marriage.




Yeah I must agree with you on that few months ago I read a post on other form site with a similar story in that case the husband was saying something about open marriage and escorts then he settle for a lap dance at strip club came home and cry like a little girl because of it...



I'm reminded of a quote from a classic movie " If your going to shoot shoot don't talk"


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

xakulax said:


> Yeah I must agree with you on that few months ago I read a post on other form site with a similar story in that case the husband was saying something open marriage and escorts then he settle for a lap dance at strip club came home and cry like a little girl because of it...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm reminded of a quote from a classic movie " If your going to shoot shoot don't talk"


Wait - his wife cheated he got a lap dance and he came home upset? :rofl:


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wait - his wife cheated he got a lap dance and he came home upset? :rofl:



Sadly yes this guy finds out his wife had a drunk ons in the backseat of his car with a guy she barley know at a bar parking lot lied about it for 6 month then tells everything because of "gilt" when hubby found out he threatens divorce then change his mind then he wants an open marriage with escorts but after his WS crying and whining he settle for a lap dance at a strip club.....seriously no backbone 



That was the story to push me over the edge with LS haven't been back there since.. There were some things in that story that to this day still make me sick.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

xakulax said:


> Sadly yes this guy finds out his wife had a drunk ons in the backseat of his car with a guy she barley know at a bar parking lot lied about it for 6 mouth then tells everything because of "gilt" when hubby found out he threatens divorce then change his mind then he wants an open marriage with escorts but after his WS crying and whining he settle for a lap dance at a strip club.....seriously no backbone
> 
> 
> 
> That was the story to push me over the edge with LS haven't been back there since.. There were some things in that story that to this day still make me sick.


He should have followed through or kept his mouth shut and reconciled without doing anything. This just makes him look silly.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

xakulax said:


> Sadly yes this guy finds out his wife had a drunk ons in the backseat of his car with a guy she barley know at a bar parking lot lied about it for 6 month then tells everything because of "gilt" when hubby found out he threatens divorce then change his mind then he wants an open marriage with escorts but after his WS crying and whining he settle for a lap dance at a strip club.....seriously no backbone
> 
> 
> 
> That was the story to push me over the edge with LS haven't been back there since.. There were some things in that story that to this day still make me sick.


Sadly, he only managed to likely ensure her continued infidelity in the future.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

OptimisticPessimist said:


> Sadly, he only managed to likely ensure her continued infidelity in the future.


Hollow threats make you look weak and indecisive. By not following though or better yet keeping his mouth shut he looked weak.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

You guys have no idea how bad it was to read.. The worst part about this whole thing was when he asked his ws was the other guy bigger than him what does his wayward wife say *"yes he was quite large actually but I couldn't feel a difference thought"* :scratchhead: I nearly broke my keyboard with my face when I read that If you're wondering what the husband did will he gets up says okay thanks for telling me the truth all shaky and nervous gets in his car drives to a bar and cry's that's it cry's No divorce no open marriage no escorts no consequence just crying 



Sun Tzu, teachings say “Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” this guy appeared weak because he was weak..


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

xakulax said:


> You guys have no idea how bad it was to read.. The worst part about this whole thing was when he asked his ws was the other guy bigger than him what does his wayward wife say *"yes he was quite large actually but I couldn't feel a difference thought"* :scratchhead: I nearly broke my keyboard with my face when I read that If you're wondering what the husband did will he gets up says okay thanks for telling me the truth all shaky and nervous gets in his car drives to a bar and cry's that's it cry's No divorce no open marriage no escorts no consequence just crying
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Tzu, teachings say “Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” this guy appeared weak because he was weak..


And sometimes the path to true strength is realizing you were weak.

He could come to this realization and turn around his life in a heartbeat.

Give the guy a chance. No need to mock him. If my wife came home and told me she just screwed some guy in a car that she just met with a big D I'd be a freaking train wreck too.

I hope I'd do like my buddy did though and move out the next day, draw up separation papers the day after that, and be in Hawaii with my new 22 year old blonde girlfriend the next weekend.

I've never seen a cheating wife more desperate to get her betrayed husband back, and more distraught and shocked that she got left in the dust.

The first day though, he was bawling at my place with me and my wife and a mess. His wife treated the whole thing like it was no big deal and thought it would blow over.

Until he was in Hawaii with this PYT and she came over crying in shock that "he won't even work on it for the sake of the kids and doesn't love me any more!"

To this day, a year or two later, she's still a train wreck and feels like she's somehow the victim in all this (of course her _married_ boyfriend dumped her and ran back to his wife when it all came out).

My buddy is building his new place, has a great hot girlfriend, built a new company, and is all smiles all the time.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Couldn't it be argued that someone like this isn't even worth R to begin with?


Absolutely. Someone like the wife isn't worth attempting R for.

Seriously though, if he were to do this, he now becomes no better than her.

The part that got me was when he suggested it, she thinks she gets to go out, F another man, then say, "but I got it out of my system" thereby saying, "you don't get the same opportunity to get it out of your system"

Not saying revenge affairs are a good idea or should be condoned. Just commenting on her entitlement thinking.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Absolutely. Someone like the wife isn't worth attempting R for.
> 
> Seriously though, if he were to do this, he now becomes no better than her.
> 
> ...


Her tone is definitely one of entitlement - she was entitled to the affair and now she feels entitled to a reconciliation with no consequences.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Her tone is definitely one of entitlement - she was entitled to the affair and now she feels entitled to a reconciliation with no consequences.


I can't remember where I read it, either here or another forum, a WW was forgiven, allegedly, by her husband for cheating.

But then he had a revenge affair, while a piss poor character choice and not condonable, and she wants to divorce him.

"Forgive me for something I won't forgive you for" Now THATS entitlement to the nth degree.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

vellocet said:


> I can't remember where I read it, either here or another forum, a WW was forgiven, allegedly, by her husband for cheating.
> *
> But then he had a revenge affair, while a piss poor character choice and not condonable, and she wants to divorce him.*
> 
> "Forgive me for something I won't forgive you for" Now THATS entitlement to the nth degree.


I'm not surprised - her ego can't handle the blow. I bet a lot of WS's egos could not handle the blow of a RA. I have zero sympathy for her though. The husband should have separated from her and did what he wanted - that would have been preferable. Did people get on her for being a hypocrite?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
I admit I didn't read the entire thread, but I'll comment anyway:

I think that it is only worth being in a relationship with someone you trust and love. 

If that trust is violated, I think the only reasonable options are to leave, or to forgive completely. It is up to the aggrieved party which they want to do. I do not think it makes sense to stay in a relationship where you are suspicious and resentful. 

There may sometimes be practical reasons for staying in a marriage where you are unhappy, but I think that it is rare that doing so will actually make your life better.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

marduk said:


> As I was saying to my wife the other weekend...
> 
> Men seem to find a reason to cheat, and then do so.
> 
> ...


:iagree: So True !!!


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

richardsharpe said:


> If that trust is violated, I think the only reasonable options are to leave, or to forgive completely. It is up to the aggrieved party which they want to do. I do not think it makes sense to stay in a relationship where you are suspicious and resentful.


All great in theory. Academically.

But real life doesn't really work that way a lot of the time.

Humans are messy. You may think you've forgiven and forgotten, and then some random thing triggers you and you're emotionally right back at the beginning. You may forgive but still be worried and insecure. 

Or, in my personal case, you may no longer be in that relationship, and you can have triggers that hit you in your next one and catch both you and your spouse off guard decades later.

There's no "clear your cache" button for the human mind.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> All great in theory. Academically.
> 
> But real life doesn't really work that way a lot of the time.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree: Absolutely just when you think you have cleared the wreckage you are back in the middle of it. With or without the cheater in your life - the scars will ultimately be yours to tend to. Infidelity sucks.


----------



## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

vellocet said:


> I can't remember where I read it, either here or another forum, a WW was forgiven, allegedly, by her husband for cheating.
> 
> But then he had a revenge affair, while a piss poor character choice and not condonable, and she wants to divorce him.
> 
> "Forgive me for something I won't forgive you for" Now THATS entitlement to the nth degree.



"All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others"--George Orwell, Animal Farm.

It also points out the can of worms that gets opened once boundaries are revealed to be pourous and insubstantial for even one partner.

Better to not go there, but it doesn't surprise me that a partner who cheated and then "reconciled" might feel entitled to fidelity from their partner: they're "more equal", ya know. I think that would describe the vast majority of cheaters who eat cake or choose to reconcile.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

vellocet said:


> I can't remember where I read it, either here or another forum, a WW was forgiven, allegedly, by her husband for cheating.
> 
> But then he had a revenge affair, while a piss poor character choice and not condonable, and she wants to divorce him.
> 
> "Forgive me for something I won't forgive you for" Now THATS entitlement to the nth degree.


I've seen that in real life.

A friend of my buddy's wife has had 3-4 affairs in her 4-5 year marriage. Nice, right?

So he figures something's not right, freaks out, and has a ONS himself.

She up and leaves him. Of course, my buddy and his wife were like WTF to her... and she said that she would never tolerate being married to a cheater!

Meh. People.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

TimeHeals said:


> "All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others"--George Orwell, Animal Farm.
> 
> It also points out the can of worms that gets opened once boundaries are revealed to be pourous and insubstantial for even one partner.
> 
> Better to not go there,* but it doesn't surprise me that a partner who cheated and then "reconciled" might feel entitled to fidelity from their partner: they're "more equal", ya know.* I think that would describe the vast majority of cheaters who eat cake or choose to reconcile.


I think that there is a sense that someone who found a counterparty to an affair must be hot sh!t. ergo, they're the hotter property in the relationship.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

NextTimeAround said:


> I think that there is a sense that someone who found a counterparty to an affair must be hot sh!t. ergo, they're the hotter property in the relationship.


Sexual power play dynamics 101.

More people find me hot than find you hot = I have more options, and therefore have more power. So watch out.

People try to equalize this in all sorts of ways, not just with affairs.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> I've seen that in real life.
> 
> A friend of my buddy's wife has had 3-4 affairs in her 4-5 year marriage. Nice, right?
> 
> ...


I'm not surprised. That woman is one thing - DAMAGED GOODS. I hope your buddy's wife had the good sense to kick her out of their lives.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

marduk said:


> I've seen that in real life.
> 
> A friend of my buddy's wife has had 3-4 affairs in her 4-5 year marriage. Nice, right?
> 
> ...




*Cheater logic *


*Wayward spouse* has affair devices and lies about it to BS then after getting caught miraculously rediscovers there love for there BS and the importance of the family and expect to reconcile 


*Betrayed spouse* at the deep end of emotional shock in turmoil has an extra marital indiscretion but come clean about right away and wants to work on the marriage response from wayward spouse I cant live with a cheater and divorce papers filed :scratchhead:



Cheater logic do unto others but just don't do it to me


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

xakulax said:


> *Cheater logic *
> 
> 
> *Wayward spouse* has affair devices and lies about it to BS then after getting caught miraculously rediscovers there love for there BS and the importance of the family and expect to reconcile
> ...


Oh no it wasn't even that.

She was still OPENLY cheating on him when he had the ONS.

Then she left him because she couldn't be with a cheater. But her affairs were justified.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

marduk said:


> Oh no it wasn't even that.
> 
> She was still OPENLY cheating on him when he had the ONS.
> 
> Then she left him because she couldn't be with a cheater. But her affairs were justified.




Wow just wow talk about selfish, self centered, and delusional


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

xakulax said:


> Wow just wow talk about selfish, self centered, and delusional


And yet...

Such scum are everywhere. They are a plague.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

marduk said:


> Oh no it wasn't even that.
> 
> She was still OPENLY cheating on him when he had the ONS.
> 
> Then she left him because she couldn't be with a cheater. But her affairs were justified.


Poor girl. How could he do that to her :rofl:


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Poor girl. How could he do that to her :rofl:


This woman is off the charts screwy. Sheesh.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Cheaters seldom think about w3hat they are doing to their children. I know this first hand."

Unfortunately, neither do fearful and co-dependent BSs who stay in horrible and dysfunctional M's because they can't muster the strength to fight for themselves.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"More people find me hot than find you hot = I have more options, and therefore have more power. So watch out."

This is why the most powerful move for a BS is to immediately and completely kick the cheater to the curb and file for D.

Utter rejection is a powerful blow to the ego, and I think it hurts all but the most self-centered and delusional of WSs.

After all, they like to think they are the prize who the BS was lucky to ever have...they EXPECT to be begged and pleaded with because they over-value themselves.

Being instantly dumped with a good dose of contempt and disgust shatters that little fantasy fast.

I do not have any problem with RAs if a BS decides to R for basically the same reason...it shows the WS two can play this game and they are nothing special or irreplaceable.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

Dyokemm said:


> "More people find me hot than find you hot = I have more options, and therefore have more power. So watch out."
> 
> This is why the most powerful move for a BS is to immediately and completely kick the cheater to the curb and file for D.
> 
> ...


I completely agree. Nothing like a little crisis to snap the delusions of a cheater..


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> "More people find me hot than find you hot = I have more options, and therefore have more power. So watch out."
> 
> This is why the most powerful move for a BS is to immediately and completely kick the cheater to the curb and file for D.
> 
> ...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> "More people find me hot than find you hot = I have more options, and therefore have more power. So watch out."
> 
> This is why the most powerful move for a BS is to immediately and completely kick the cheater to the curb and file for D.
> 
> ...


Rejection is a powerful tool. RAs though can sometimes have the opposite effect and free the cheater of any guilt, so an RA can backfire. In general this is a gut thing for me - I don't view a person who has an RA as harshly.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"RAs though can sometimes have the opposite effect and free the cheater of any guilt"

You are right...this is a distinct possibility, but I think it still gives the BS very valuable info on the path to take IMO.

If a WS reacts this way, then I think they were never going to have the empathy and remorse to make R possible anyway...and if they react by feeling it justifies them to reengage in their cheating ways, well that was probably going to start up again in the future anyway if they are so unable to self-reflect on how their sh*tty choices have made a mess of the M.

If the BS sees either of those reactions from the WS after the RA, they should accept that the R was very likely to fail anyway cause the WS just doesn't 'get' it and they should file and move on. (and I do not think an RA should ever be done secretly...it should be done soon after and directly exposed to the WS as a demonstration that their cheating will have retaliatory consequences)


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> "RAs though can sometimes have the opposite effect and free the cheater of any guilt"
> 
> You are right...this is a distinct possibility, but I think it still gives the BS very valuable info on the path to take IMO.
> 
> ...



:iagree::iagree:



The wayward spouse would understand there actions have consequences and also understand their actions brought their betrayed spouse to this position


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> "RAs though can sometimes have the opposite effect and free the cheater of any guilt"
> 
> You are right...this is a distinct possibility, but I think it still gives the BS very valuable info on the path to take IMO.
> 
> ...


I think that is an interesting perspective and we had a couple of posters on another thread write that the RA in fact HELPED not hurt how they felt. I know that defies TAM orthodoxy but it is interesting to hear other view points. I've said this before I don't view people who have an RA in the same way I view the original cheater. Few if any WS ever experience the pain they caused their BS by cheating.


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