# stuck in limbo, not sure what to do???



## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

It's been 6 months since I found about my husband of 18 year's affair and I'm not sure what to do. Right after dday I so wanted to divorce him and I met with an attorny. But, for the sake of our kids (14 & 11) I haven't followed through and want to try to see if our marriage can be saved. Since dday he has been living in the guest bedroom & the kids aren't aware anything is wrong. He is remorseful and is doing everything a wayward spouse should be doing - we talk kindly to each other but I am reluctant to talk about the marriage. He often asks me if I'd like to talk but I just don't "feel it" right now so we haven't talked about the marriage in some time. We did a few marriage counseling appointments a few months back but they didn't do much for me so we haven't had any counseling since then.

My main issue right now is I just can't stand the thought of being intimate with him at all, to the point where I don't want him anywhere near me (no hand holding, hugging, kissing, etc.) This frustrates him as he really wants to give me a hug, but knows how I feel and respects that so he doesn't ask anymore. I can't picture me ever getting to the point where I want to get close to him, so I'm basically stuck in this limbo between not wanting him out of my life yet and wanting to be close to him again. Any advice on what can I do to get out of being stuck would be great as this isn't something I want to be in for months and months -thank you!


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Yes if you have absolute proof go see an attorney....See where things will fall if you kick him out

Has he stopped cheating ?


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## Leavingyou (1 mo ago)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's been 6 months since I found about my husband of 18 year's affair and I'm not sure what to do. Right after dday I so wanted to divorce him and I met with an attorny. But, for the sake of our kids (14 & 11) I haven't followed through and want to try to see if our marriage can be saved. Since dday he has been living in the guest bedroom & the kids aren't aware anything is wrong. He is remorseful and is doing everything a wayward spouse should be doing - we talk kindly to each other but I am reluctant to talk about the marriage. He often asks me if I'd like to talk but I just don't "feel it" right now so we haven't talked about the marriage in some time. We did a few marriage counseling appointments a few months back but they didn't do much for me so we haven't had any counseling since then.
> 
> My main issue right now is I just can't stand the thought of being intimate with him at all, to the point where I don't want him anywhere near me (no hand holding, hugging, kissing, etc.) This frustrates him as he really wants to give me a hug, but knows how I feel and respects that so he doesn't ask anymore. I can't picture me ever getting to the point where I want to get close to him, so I'm basically stuck in this limbo between not wanting him out of my life yet and wanting to be close to him again. Any advice on what can I do to get out of being stuck would be great as this isn't something I want to be in for months and months -thank you!


If you have any hope or want to continue the marriage try a different therapist or counselor. It seems like the one you had you didn’t connect with. A good one can really help.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

You have to talk. One way or the other, you have to talk. Perhaps a MC can help you find the words to process your feelings & help you find a path forward, together or apart. But talk.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Divorce. This won’t work. You’re done with him and kids heal


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sorry you find yourself here.

How did you find out that he was having an affair, and how did he end it? Do you trust your husband, now? Does your husband want to save the marriage?


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> Yes if you have absolute proof go see an attorney....See where things will fall if you kick him out
> 
> Has he stopped cheating ?


Yeah I've got proof, have all the disgusting chats emails, and photo's he exchanged - he has stopped cheating...at least I think so as he's been accountable since dday.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Sorry you find yourself here.
> 
> How did you find out that he was having an affair, and how did he end it? Do you trust your husband, now? Does your husband want to save the marriage?


I opened a chat app on his phone and everything was there - he ended it right after I confronted him. I do believe he isn't cheating, and I also believe he wants to stay married.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Yeah I've got proof, have all the disgusting chats emails, and photo's he exchanged - he has stopped cheating...at least I think so as he's been accountable since dday.


Was this a physical affair, or solely online/emotional affair?

If you really can't ever see being affectionate to him again, that what are you really accomplishing by staying together for the kids? You are their example of how marriage works and right now they see a mommy that has no love for daddy. Is that what you really want? I'm not saying it has to be over, you can choose to stay. If you choose to stay though, you need to make an effort to restore your marriage to something at least resembling happy and healthy.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Yeah I've got proof, have all the disgusting chats emails, and photo's he exchanged - he has stopped cheating...at least I think so as he's been accountable since dday.


I honestly think that you may never want to be physical with him again after the awful betrayal. I may well feel the same. 
Not sure where that leaves you as far as staying or leaving but it's possible the damage is too great.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I opened a chat app on his phone and everything was there - he ended it right after I confronted him. I do believe he isn't cheating, and I also believe he wants to stay married.


Okay. Do you trust him, now?

Putting myself in your shoes for a moment, there'd be a part of me that would feel like I'm settling, if that makes sense. I wonder if that is what happens in the aftermath of affairs, and spouses are trying to reconcile. Like, you didn't cheat and he did, so there's this imbalance. It may be difficult to see your husband as the man you once knew before the affair, or the person you thought he was before the affair, and that has made you guarded. Totally understandable, and probably a good therapist could help you sort out some of those feelings.

As far as your kids go, they see your husband sleeping in another room, so they must know something is up. I think many people who don't divorce ''for the kids,'' don't realize that their kids are more perceptive than they let on, and it may actually do them a disservice. Not saying you should divorce, but if you honestly can't move forward to a point where you look at your husband and marriage in a healthy way, then you really should move on, for all of your benefits.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> You have to talk. One way or the other, you have to talk. Perhaps a MC can help you find the words to process your feelings & help you find a path forward, together or apart. But talk.


I like the idea of trying a different counselor to help figure out what direction is best for me instead of just being stuck.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Divorce. This won’t work. You’re done with him and kids heal


This is tough..if we didn't have kids I'm pretty sure I would have divorced him right after I found out.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Was this a physical affair, or solely online/emotional affair?
> 
> If you really can't ever see being affectionate to him again, that what are you really accomplishing by staying together for the kids? You are their example of how marriage works and right now they see a mommy that has no love for daddy. Is that what you really want? I'm not saying it has to be over, you can choose to stay. If you choose to stay though, you need to make an effort to restore your marriage to something at least resembling happy and healthy.


It was a brief physical affair, busted him after he was in it for a month - they had sex twice, really hurts though as once was in our house - thought of that makes me sick still!


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## maggie1385 (2 mo ago)

I am so sorry it happened to you.
I emotionally cheated on my husband with a single coworker and he did not want to even try to save the marriage because he can’t think of ever being intimate with me.
I disclosed the affair, tried to make things right and was very remorseful but he just can’t. And I respect that. I still love him but I screwed up and have to pay the consequences and learn from my bad choices.
It’s really just you who knows if you can carry on or not. My husband was set on getting a divorce as all his feelings were gone but you seem conflicted. I would just give myself time, try to heal, and not force anything. It seems like you still have feelings for your husband so maybe it’s worth giving it a chance.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So he'd still be at it if you hadn't caught him
....not a good prospect.

How do you know he ended it? That's awfully convenient timing.....he may have just taken it underground. And if not he was apparently willing to trash your marriage for someone unimportant enough to dump right away. Think about that.

I tried mc too when I found out about my ex's trashy ex gf on the side but it didn't help. Counseling is good for communication issues but when there's cheating it's often used to ******** and blameshift. I knew that I'd never look at my ex the same way again. We did have sex after that but I got nothing out of it and eventually divorced him.

Right now there's a good chance yours is in damage control mode.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It was a brief physical affair, busted him after he was in it for a month - they had sex twice, really hurts though as once wa in our house - thought of that makes me sick still!


I know in your shoes I would be sick to my stomach. I would have to purge my house of everything and anything that the AP could have touched. The mental images would be too much for me to bear. I'm not sure I would even be able to remain living in the house. What I'm saying is this kind of thing can cripple you and make you into a different person. You may not ever be able to get over that. And if you can't your marriage is likely to be very toxic. If you want you can try counseling, both individual and couples, but if you can't get over the resentment to the point you would feel comfortable being intimate with him again, then I think it is a big mistake to try and hold the marriage together. Sooner or later the lack of intimacy will get to him and resentment will build in him too. This isn't conducive to a good environment for kids. Unfortunately your husband's choices blew up your family, it is on him. Don't feel that it is you that is breaking up the family if you decide you can't get your marriage back to a healthy and happy state.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

I still do have feelings for him, so I like the idea of giving it more time and not "forcing" myself to move forward right now...just not knowing how much time & when the time is right to try is the most frustrating part of where I'm at right now.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I still do have feelings for him, so I like the idea of giving it more time and not "forcing" myself to move forward right now...just not knowing how much time & when the time is right to try is the most frustrating part of where I'm at right now.


I suggest you try to be honest with your husband about this. His response could be telling about his commitment to reconciliation. If he really wants to remain married and faithful he will make the short term sacrifice for the long term success and stick it out. If he becomes impatient and pushes you he is back to think of himself and probably isn't fully in on reconciliation.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Sometimes those feelings are borne out of panic thanks to the prospect of your life as you know it blowing up. Take your time here....in time the panic will wear off and you'll see him for who he is and contemplate life without him. For me once the panic wore ofd I realized that I didn't like or respect my now ex


But you may feel differently and want to reconcile. You won't really know until you have time and space away from him. And the time will allow you to see whether he's really remorseful or whether he's sorry he got caught.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It was a brief physical affair, busted him after he was in it for a month - they had sex twice, really hurts though as once wa in our house - thought of that makes me sick still!


So if you hadnt caught him it might still be going on. Are you convinced this was his first and only? How could he earn your trust ever again? Does he still have access to her? 

IMO staying “for the kids” is just a pathway to more misery. You can coparent without being married to him. Yes, maybe try another counselor but they are expensive and take a lot of time and money at best. If you file, the process takes time and you can always halt it along the way.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Was this a physical affair, or solely online/emotional affair?
> 
> If you really can't ever see being affectionate to him again, that what are you really accomplishing by staying together for the kids? You are their example of how marriage works and right now they see a mommy that has no love for daddy. Is that what you really want? I'm not saying it has to be over, you can choose to stay.  If you choose to stay though, you need to make an effort to restore your marriage to something at least resembling happy and healthy.


 IT was a physical affair, he said she meant nothing to him, said it was just a form of masturbating (not even close!) As far as the kids go when we are around them things seem "nomal" to them as we talk and joke around like we always have so they think everything is ok between he and I - it's real tough to carry on like this though.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It was a brief physical affair, busted him after he was in it for a month - they had sex twice, really hurts though as once was in our house - thought of that makes me sick still!


Yuk, that is just disgusting. At the very least I would have to get rid of the bed. 
Who was she? Someone from work? Are you sure it has stopped? How can you be sure it was just twice?


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> So if you hadnt caught him it might still be going on. Are you convinced this was his first and only? How could he earn your trust ever again? Does he still have access to her?
> 
> IMO staying “for the kids” is just a pathway to more misery. You can coparent without being married to him. Yes, maybe try another counselor but they are expensive and take a lot of time and money at best. If you file, the process takes time and you can always halt it along the way.


He said he was done with the affair before I caught him as he was feeling guilty - maybe he's just saying that but if I hadn't caught him, based on the disgusting emails leading up to me busting him I have a hard time seeing him breaking it off with her. No other affairs (that I know of), but last spring he was involved in a weird & gross online thing where he was chatting with a married couple where they wanted him to join them - never led to anything & seemed he broke it off. I know this as I also found all of that gross $hit in his email.


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

After 6 months your still having issues with dealing with his affair but still have feelings for him. For 6 months there has been no intimacy between you both. To be honest it may take easily a year to 2 years for you to start dealing with his affair. 
Question his can your husband deal with no intimacy for the length it takes for you to come to terms with this...
He may either start cheating again or ask for divorce first. The fact that you see him everyday reminds you of what he has done.. 
Have you thought about separation for awhile. Giving you space . You need to heal before any Reconcile can take place.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> IT was a physical affair, he said she meant nothing to him, said it was just a form of masturbating (not even close!) As far as the kids go when we are around them things seem "nomal" to them as we talk and joke around like we always have so they think everything is ok between he and I - it's real tough to carry on like this though.


All cheaters say those things, it's their way of trying to minimize what they did. If she meant nothing then why risk the marriage to have sex with her?
I know you are desperate to stay, but if you can't even bear him touching you at all after 6 months you may be one of those who just can't get past it. And why should you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> He said he was done with the affair as he was feeling guilty - maybe he's just saying that but if I hadn't caught him, based on the disgusting emails leading up to me finding them I have a hard time seeing him breaking it off with


Yes he is just saying that, they all do.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

All cheaters say “they meant nothing.” It was just sex, etc…

But it meant something. He may have just been using her but that too paints a different picture of the man you thought you had married. He was using another woman for sex while going behind your back to do it.

It’s totally understandable why you’re not attracted to him. Leaving would be difficult but I’ve always viewed reconciling after something like this to be more difficult.

I echo that he could be in damage control. Not wanting to go through a divorce and wanting to be married, are not the same thing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> All cheaters say “they meant nothing.” It was just sex, etc…
> 
> But it meant something. He may have just been using her but that too paints a different picture of the man you thought you had married. He was using another woman for sex while going behind your back to do it.
> 
> ...


So basically he treated both women terribly. Doesn't say much for the way he views women.

I agree with what another poster said, have a set time of separation, say 3 months and see how you feel after that time.


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## maggie1385 (2 mo ago)

I think 6 months is too short to take any kind of decisions even if you can’t be intimate with him at the moment. It’s still very fresh. It hurts. My husband still can’t look me directly in the eyes a year after my emotional affair. We’re finalizing the divorce in January and I hope that will bring him some kind of closure and help him heal. 
If you don’t believe him, make him take a polygraph test. He should agree to it if he has nothing to hide.
I offered one to my husband to make sure he believed me there was no sex involved in my affair but he refused since he didn’t want to reconcile.
Do you think some time apart would do you any good?
If you’re worried about kids, you could keep them in the same house and get an apartment and take rotations without having to move kids around. And just explain to them that you are trying to figure some things out.
I don’t think seeing him every day is a good thing. Maybe taking some distance and time for reflection will bring you some clarity. Also, being apart will help you to decide faster if you want to fight for the marriage or not.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Okay. Do you trust him, now?
> 
> Putting myself in your shoes for a moment, there'd be a part of me that would feel like I'm settling, if that makes sense. I wonder if that is what happens in the aftermath of affairs, and spouses are trying to reconcile. Like, you didn't cheat and he did, so there's this imbalance. It may be difficult to see your husband as the man you once knew before the affair, or the person you thought he was before the affair, and that has made you guarded. Totally understandable, and probably a good therapist could help you sort out some of those feelings.
> 
> As far as your kids go, they see your husband sleeping in another room, so they must know something is up. I think many people who don't divorce ''for the kids,'' don't realize that their kids are more perceptive than they let on, and it may actually do them a disservice. Not saying you should divorce, but if you honestly can't move forward to a point where you look at your husband and marriage in a healthy way, then you really should move on, for all of your benefits.


I do trust him now as based on his guilt and remorse I don't believe he'd step out again. I don't ever think I could look at him again without feeling some bitterness - marriage counseling would be great, but right now I feel like I would be forcing myself to go and my heart wouldn't be in it. 

As far as the kids I don't think they know he's sleeping in another room as it's downstairs and he makes the bed - if they do bring it up the "story" is my and his snoring keep us both up at night, and when we are together hopefully everything seems normal to them..not a great way for me to live though.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> So basically he treated both women terribly. Doesn't say much for the way he views women.
> 
> I agree with what another poster said, have a set time of separation, say 3 months and see how you feel after that time.


I agree about the separation if it wasn't for the kids -they love their dad, not sure I do after what he did to our marriage, but they love him and he's been a really good father, even more so since I busted him being a POS cheater.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I agree about the separation if it wasn't for the kids -they love their dad, not sure I do after what he did to our marriage, but they love him and he's been a really good father, even more so since I busted him being a POS cheater.


And that doesn't strike you as phony damage control?

Why would he be a better father after you caught him and he's worried about being divorced? Why wasn't he that good of a father before?


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I know in your shoes I would be sick to my stomach. I would have to purge my house of everything and anything that the AP could have touched. The mental images would be too much for me to bear. I'm not sure I would even be able to remain living in the house. What I'm saying is this kind of thing can cripple you and make you into a different person. You may not ever be able to get over that. And if you can't your marriage is likely to be very toxic. If you want you can try counseling, both individual and couples, but if you can't get over the resentment to the point you would feel comfortable being intimate with him again, then I think it is a big mistake to try and hold the marriage together. Sooner or later the lack of intimacy will get to him and resentment will build in him too. This isn't conducive to a good environment for kids. Unfortunately your husband's choices blew up your family, it is on him. Don't feel that it is you that is breaking up the family if you decide you can't get your marriage back to a healthy and happy state.


They had sex on our boat in the garage, not in the house...while my son was inside sleeping no less, what a fuking piece of $hit, what if he walked out in the garage?!?!? I loved our family boat but I can't picture being on it ever again. He offered to try selling it but I told him not right now. I do agree about the counseling, need to think of my needs too as well as the kids.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> They had sex on our boat in the garage, not in the house...while my son was inside sleeping no less, what a fuking piece of $hit, what if he walked out in the garage?!?!? I loved our family boat but I can't picture being on it ever again. He offered to try selling it but I told him not right now. I do agree about the counseling, need to think of my needs to as well as the kids.


You absolutely have to think of your needs too. If mom isn't happy and healthy the kids will suffer.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> So if you hadnt caught him it might still be going on. Are you convinced this was his first and only? How could he earn your trust ever again? Does he still have access to her?
> 
> IMO staying “for the kids” is just a pathway to more misery. You can co-parent without being married to him. Yes, maybe try another counselor but they are expensive and take a lot of time and money at best. If you file, the process takes time and you can always halt it along the way.


Besides the gross online 3some thing he said this is the only time he cheated. He does not have access to her, but I'm not sure I can every trust him again - - -who's to say he didn't create a new email account and is chatting with that ***** right now?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Besides the gross online 3some thing he said this is the only time he cheated. He does not have access to her, but I'm not sure I can every trust him again - - -who's to say he didn't create a new email account and is chatting with that *** right now?


So he has cheated twice then?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Besides the gross online 3some thing he said this is the only time he cheated. He does not have access to her, but I'm not sure I can every trust him again - - -who's to say he didn't create a new email account and is chatting with that *** right now?


Did I miss something? He had an online affair too?

ETA: Diana beat me to it


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I do trust him now as based on his guilt and remorse I don't believe he'd step out again. I don't ever think I could look at him again without feeling some bitterness - marriage counseling would be great, but right now I feel like I would be forcing myself to go and my heart wouldn't be in it.
> 
> As far as the kids I don't think they know he's sleeping in another room as it's downstairs and he makes the bed - if they do bring it up the "story" is my and his snoring keep us both up at night, and when we are together hopefully everything seems normal to them..not a great way for me to live though.


All cheaters appear sorry after they get caught, but he wasn't sorry enough not to go back a second time and not sorry enough to stop it himself. Not sorry enough not to expose you to possible std's either.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Yuk, that is just disgusting. At the very least I would have to get rid of the bed.
> Who was she? Someone from work? Are you sure it has stopped? How can you be sure it was just twice?


It actually was in the boat in the garage, f-ing gross. She was someone he met on Ashley Madison - I'm pretty confident he ended it right after dday. As far as knowing it was "just" twice, I have all his gross emails and chats describing everything.....can't get the images out of my head, makes me sick to think about.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> All cheaters appear sorry after they get caught, but he wasn't sorry enough not to go back a second time and not sorry enough to stop it himself. Not sorry enough not to expose you to possible std's either.


That is a good point, if he was "wracked with guilt" why did he go back? As far as STD's we never had sex after he was with her, and he did do a STD test that came back clean.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It actually was in the boat in the garage, f-ing gross. She was someone he met on Ashley Madison - I'm pretty confident he ended it right after dday. As far as knowing it was "just" twice, I have all his gross emails and chats describing everything.....can't get the images out of my head, makes me sick to think about.


So he actually went searching on a site for married people who want sex. He doesn't have the excuse of getting too close to someone at work and not planning it. 
Sorry, for me that's just too much. He didn't even feel remorseful after having done it once. 
You may want to get a lie detector test because he may well have met someone that way before.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

TheGodfather said:


> After 6 months your still having issues with dealing with his affair but still have feelings for him. For 6 months there has been no intimacy between you both. To be honest it may take easily a year to 2 years for you to start dealing with his affair.
> Question his can your husband deal with no intimacy for the length it takes for you to come to terms with this...
> He may either start cheating again or ask for divorce first. The fact that you see him everyday reminds you of what he has done..
> Have you thought about separation for awhile. Giving you space . You need to heal before any Reconcile can take place.


I'm not sure he could deal with no intimacy for 2 years - he says he can wait for as long as it takes, but I have a hard time seeing him waiting that long. A separation is something I've thought about...if it wasn't for the kids I would have asked for at least a separation.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> So he actually went searching on a site for married people who want sex. He doesn't have the excuse of getting too close to someone at work and not planning it.
> Sorry, for me that's just too much. He didn't even feel remorseful after having done it once.
> You may want to get a lie detector test because he may well have met someone that way before.


He offered to take one, that doesn't mean he hadn't done it before though so that's worth thinking about again. In one of his emails he told her this was his 1st time stepping out...could have easily been lying to her too.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I'm not sure he could deal with no intimacy for 2 years - he says he can wait for as long as it takes, but I have a hard time seeing him waiting that long. A separation is something I've thought about...if it wasn't for the kids I would have asked for at least a separation.


I doubt he would deal with it either, considering he had sex with someone else when you thought things were good. 

I get why people don't run out to divorce, I do. But it's forever a dealbreaker for me...not because I wouldn't be able to forgive, and move forward...but because I wouldn't be the same. I'd become someone else, an untrusting worried wife, and no man is worth it to me. I love my husband but he's not worth all of that stress. 

If you're staying for the kids, you could say that to him. Maybe that's why he's staying. Someone doesn't go from having sex with someone outside of the marriage, to suddenly becoming dedicated to the marriage.

You probably should have some conversations, even if they get heated.


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## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

I would suggest you find a good individual counselor for yourself to help you process the emotions. There is no rush to make the final decision. Do not stay just for the kids. They will know something is wrong sooner or later. Reconciliation can be successful, but sometimes infidelity is just a dealbreaker. That is ok. In this day and age, co-parenting can be very successful. You and the kids can end up being very happy whether you stay together with your husband or not.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> He offered to take one, that doesn't mean he hadn't done it before though so that's worth thinking about again. In one of his emails he told her this was his 1st time stepping out...could have easily been lying to her too.


Cheaters lie. Also Ashley madison has several pay options and is used by escorts. So on top of his 2 infidelities and doing it in your house/boat while your son is sleeping, Have you looked into the finance side? Do you have access to finances?

And yes he could be lying to the other woman as well. THey often do. Here's some standard ones

My wife and I are separated and getting divorced but we live together now due to the kids....
My wife never sleeps with me and she's mean to me I just want to feel loved.....

ETA: you say he's remorseful but more he's sorry he got caught. How is he showing actual remorse?


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Cheaters lie. Also Ashley madison has several pay options and is used by escorts. So on top of his 2 infidelities and doing it in your house/boat while your son is sleeping, Have you looked into the finance side? Do you have access to finances?
> 
> And yes he could be lying to the other woman as well. THey often do. Here's some standard ones
> 
> ...


I have access/run all of our finances as he's clueless about money matters, disn't see anything out of the ordinary. As far as his potential lies to the other women I didn't see anything about me at all really or wanting to be loved...was just all about sex. 

I'm sure he's real sorry he got caught, but it does also seem like he's showing actual remorse. Immediately after DDay he quit going out to bars (I know a big ask right), started helping out more around the house, does most of the cooking, involved with the kids alot more, will do do pretty much anything I ask him to without hesitation. He rights me poems and leaves me notes, hasn't done it in awhile though as he said he feels like he is smothering me. It does feel like he is more remorseful then just regretful of being caught..


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I would think of it this way... he effectively ended the marriage when he decided to sleep with someone else (multiple times).

Ask for a written timeline of everything he has done related to cheating, then polygraph him. There is probably more to this. When you realize he is still lying, how will you feel?

The fact that he downplayed it, means he thinks it is not a big deal, and that increases the likelihood that he would do it again as the greatest predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Are you worried about how to make it on your own? There really is not a solid reason to stay with him.... you would just be showing your kids that is ok to accept cheating.... what would your advice be to your child if this happened to them?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

When you reconcile with a cheater, you should never trust as completely as you once did. You never know what will happen going forward. Some will never cheat again but unfortunately there’s no way to tell if that’s who you have. That’s the reality of reconciling.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I do trust him now as based on his guilt and remorse I don't believe he'd step out again. I don't ever think I could look at him again without feeling some bitterness - marriage counseling would be great, but right now I feel like I would be forcing myself to go and my heart wouldn't be in it.
> 
> As far as the kids I don't think they know he's sleeping in another room as it's downstairs and he makes the bed - if they do bring it up the "story" is my and his snoring keep us both up at night, and when we are together hopefully everything seems normal to them..not a great way for me to live though.


so he is chatting sexually with another couple, then has a physical affair that may still be going on if you hadn't found it (and may still be going on anyway), but you have convinced yourself he would never have an affair again?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I have access/run all of our finances as he's clueless about money matters, disn't see anything out of the ordinary. As far as his potential lies to the other women I didn't see anything about me at all really or wanting to be loved...was just all about sex.
> 
> I'm sure he's real sorry he got caught, but it does also seem like he's showing actual remorse. Immediately after DDay he quit going out to bars (I know a big ask right), started helping out more around the house, does most of the cooking, involved with the kids alot more, will do do pretty much anything I ask him to without hesitation. He rights me poems and leaves me notes, hasn't done it in awhile though as he said he feels like he is smothering me. It does feel like he is more remorseful then just regretful of being caught..


All this stuff will last until he thinks you have decided to stay. It's him trying to manipulate you into staying. That's why a separation is so helpful as he can't do that. You can have the time and space to think and find out what you really want to do.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's been 6 months since I found about my husband of 18 year's affair


So he has been celibate for 6 months? Yet one woman ( you ) wasn't enough to keep faithful before that?



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> the kids aren't aware anything is wrong


IMO the kids (14 & 11) know way more than you may ever know until they are grown. Did the neighbors see him bring the escort into your garage? 



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I can't picture me ever getting to the point where I want to get close to him


So at a bare minimum he ( and you ) are going to be celibate for a long time to come. How likely is he to manage that?



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It was a brief physical affair, busted him after *he was in it for a month - they had sex twice*


I will only say that what cheaters admit to is what the betrayed already know. Sorry, but they probably had sex twice on the boat during the same session. Not that it really matters if he was at it one month or a year or a decade. Or if they had sex twice of twice a week. Just know that he is lying if his lips are moving. He just doesn't want spousal and child support and attorney fees to eat his income and begin living in a cheap flat on peanut butter sandwiches with no money for escorts or dating.



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> last spring he was involved in a weird & gross online thing where he was chatting with a married couple where they wanted him to join them - *never led to anything*


How do you know this? Because he told you?



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> *Besides the gross online 3some thing he said this is the only time he cheated*. He does not have access to her, but I'm not sure I can every trust him again - - -who's to *say he didn't create a new email account and is chatting with that * right now?*


So besides scheduling a MFM and doing a hooker in the family boat in your garage ( I assume while you were away earning a living ), all( that you know of ) in the last 18 months, those are the only times in 18 years he has cheated? Maybe he just started escapades last Spring, but IMO it is just you became aware then. I bet if you think back over the last 18 years there are plenty of other suspicious situations that he 'splained away and you believed. 



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> *I'm not sure he could deal with no intimacy for 2 years* - he says he can wait for as long as it takes, but *I have a hard time seeing him waiting that long.* A separation is something I've thought about...if it wasn't for the kids I would have asked for at least a separation.


Me neither. In fact, I would just about guarantee he hasn't been celibate since you busted him. The temptation is more than he could handle.



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Immediately after DDay he quit going out to bars


So elaborate on this a bit. How often did he go out to bars? How long was he gone? Male only bars as in no women went there? 

It is very sad at this stage of your life to be dealing with this. And as others have said, you have all of the time you need. Will only say that were the genders reversed, the men on here including me would be saying file for separation first with divorce to follow ASAP. Too much disrespect and dishonesty. If you hadn't busted him, would he have been intimate with you after doing his hooker GF, exposing you to perhaps deadly STD?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> All this stuff will last until he thinks you have decided to stay. It's him trying to manipulate you into staying. That's why a separation is so helpful as he can't do that. You can have the time and space to think and find out what you really want to do.


Agree, but the only problem with that, is he could easily cheat while they're separated, as he will be on his own a lot more.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Yeah I've got proof, have all the disgusting chats emails, and photo's he exchanged - he has stopped cheating...at least I think so as he's been accountable since dday.


Why on earth people stay with a cheater is beyond me. See an attorney asap. Get tested for STD.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

maggie1385 said:


> I am so sorry it happened to you.
> I emotionally cheated on my husband with a single coworker and he did not want to even try to save the marriage because he can’t think of ever being intimate with me.
> I disclosed the affair, tried to make things right and was very remorseful but he just can’t. And I respect that. I still love him but I screwed up and have to pay the consequences and learn from my bad choices.
> It’s really just you who knows if you can carry on or not. My husband was set on getting a divorce as all his feelings were gone but you seem conflicted. I would just give myself time, try to heal, and not force anything. It seems like you still have feelings for your husband so maybe it’s worth giving it a chance.


Wise man.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Agree, but the only problem with that, is he could easily cheat while they're separated, as he will be on his own a lot more.


And what does it really matter? Cheaters gonna cheat. It is in their DNA isn't it? She needs at a minimum a separation so she doesn't see his mug every day and have to wash his underwear. Time to process her own pain without having to listen to him flap his jaws.

The kids already know way more than their parents think they know. They might as well know sooner than later their home will never again be the same. Their father saw to that cuz he couldn't keep his attentions confined to the woman he swore to forsake all others for, the woman who gave him children..


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I still do have feelings for him, so I like the idea of giving it more time and not "forcing" myself to move forward right now...just not knowing how much time & when the time is right to try is the most frustrating part of where I'm at right now.


I set an arbitrary deadline. 3 months. By then, I was sure.
Felt much relief once I set the deadline. I could not endure it for longer.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> He said he was done with the affair before I caught him as he was feeling guilty - maybe he's just saying that but if I hadn't caught him, based on the disgusting emails leading up to me busting him I have a hard time seeing him breaking it off with her. No other affairs (that I know of), but last spring he was involved in a weird & gross online thing where he was chatting with a married couple where they wanted him to join them - never led to anything & seemed he broke it off. I know this as I also found all of that gross $hit in his email.


You can bet that you know only the tip of the iceberg. Most affairs go undetected forever. You have busted him twice now.
What are the odds you just fortuitously discoverd these two? 
Has he been tested for STDs? Does his girlfriend have a husband or boyfriend? If so, he needs to be informed.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> And what does it really matter? Cheaters gonna cheat. It is in their DNA isn't it? She needs at a minimum a separation so she doesn't see his mug every day and have to wash his underwear. Time to process her own pain without having to listen to him flap his jaws.
> 
> The kids already know way more than their parents think they know. They might as well know sooner than later their home will never again be the same. Their father saw to that cuz he couldn't keep his attentions confined to the woman he swore to forsake all others for, the woman who gave him children..


I completely agree, but it's easier for us to suggest these things, because we're not in it. It's a dealbreaker for me, you, and many others, but it's not for everyone. 

In the end, it just seems like a really steep mountain to climb. 😓


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

re16 said:


> I would think of it this way... he effectively ended the marriage when he decided to sleep with someone else (multiple times).
> 
> Ask for a written timeline of everything he has done related to cheating, then polygraph him. There is probably more to this. When you realize he is still lying, how will you feel?
> 
> ...


I'll ask him about doing a timeline and tell him he needs to get polygraphed - who knows that alone may cause him to "fess up" other unfaithful $hit he's done over the years -I'm really hoping it's "only" these two recent betrayals. I'm sure I could make it on my own just fine, have looked at houses in the area...on this note he actually accussed me of intentionally leaving my phone out for him to snoop on (which he did) - he found my recent house searches and was all upset. I told him he has no f-ing idea what upset is compared to when I found the $hit on his phone - I actually sent him a few of the screenshots I took off his phone, some explicit ones he and his **** were exchanging - told him to stfu about anything on my phone, I think he got it. I would tell my daughter to leave the cheating bastard as I want her to be happy...just not ready to decide yet..this limbo sucks.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> I set an arbitrary deadline. 3 months. By then, I was sure.
> Felt much relief once I set the deadline. I could not endure it for longer.


I like the idea of a deadline as that really would seem like a relief - just not sure how long to set it...like 3 months from today?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I'll ask him about doing a timeline and tell him he needs to get polygraphed - who knows that alone may cause him to "fess up" other unfaithful $hit he's done over the years -I'm really hoping it's "only" these two recent betrayals. I'm sure I could make it on my own just fine, have looked at houses in the area...on this note he actually accussed me of intentionally leaving my phone out for him to snoop on (which he did) - he found my recent house searches and was all upset. I told him he has no f-ing idea what upset is compared to when I found the $hit on his phone - I actually sent him a few of the screenshots I took off his phone, some explicit ones he and his **** were exchanging - told him to stfu about anything on my phone, I think he got it. I would tell my daughter to leave the cheating bastard as I want her to be happy...just not ready to decide yet..this limbo sucks.


Maybe say that if the lie detector test shows that there has been more cheating he hasn't told you about before the test, the marriage is over. This may make him open up if there is more to tell.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> You can bet that you know only the tip of the iceberg. Most affairs go undetected forever. You have busted him twice now.
> What are the odds you just fortuitously discoverd these two?
> Has he been tested for STDs? Does his girlfriend have a husband or boyfriend? If so, he needs to be informed.


He has been tested and was clean (gave me the results). As far as busting him twice, not that it matters, but it was "only once", as I found out about the MFM and his physical affair at the same time. His former **** is married, or was at the time anyway. He said she let him know but not 100% for certain of course..don't want anything to do with her or her poor spouse, just want that chapter of this $hitty book closed as I can't stand thinking about that *****.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> He has been tested and was clean (gave me the results). His former *** is married, or was at the time anyway. He said she let him know but not 100% for certain of course..don't want anything to do with her or her poor spouse, just want that chapter of this $hitty book closed as I can't stand thinking about that ****.


Does her spouse know? If not don't you think he deserves to know?


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> so he is chatting sexually with another couple, then has a physical affair that may still be going on if you hadn't found it (and may still be going on anyway), but you have convinced yourself he would never have an affair again?


The only thing I am somewhat confident in is that he is done at least physically cheating as since I decided not to divorce him we have Life360 and he tells me every move he makes...who knows what the future looks like though...


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I'll ask him about doing a timeline and tell him he needs to get polygraphed - who knows that alone may cause him to "fess up" other unfaithful $hit he's done over the years -I'm really hoping it's "only" these two recent betrayals. I'm sure I could make it on my own just fine, have looked at houses in the area...on this note he actually accussed me of intentionally leaving my phone out for him to snoop on (which he did) - he found my recent house searches and was all upset. I told him he has no f-ing idea what upset is compared to when I found the $hit on his phone - I actually sent him a few of the screenshots I took off his phone, some explicit ones he and his **** were exchanging - told him to stfu about anything on my phone, I think he got it. I would tell my daughter to leave the cheating bastard as I want her to be happy...just not ready to decide yet..this limbo sucks.


I think that would be very telling if you ask him to take a polygraph, and see his reaction. Most likely, he'll be offended that you don't believe him. Meh, who cares. That ship has sailed...

I've never heard of polygraphs being taken by cheating spouses, until coming to TAM. lol I always thought they were only for people who've been accused of crimes.

Be prepared though, he may share a lot more ...but that would make your decision easier.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Does her spouse know? If not don't you think he deserves to know?


Nothing's 100% but I emailed her as she used her real email in a few messages (what a dumb *****), she emailed my husband to tell him she was going to proactively tell her husband before I did...I never did reach out to him though


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

i am curious if he cheated on you again, would you still stay in the marriage for your children?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> ,,, he found my recent house searches and was all upset. I told him he has no f-ing idea what upset is compared to when I found the $hit on his phone - I actually sent him a few of the screenshots I took off his phone, some explicit ones he and his **** were exchanging - told him to stfu about anything on my phone, I think he got it.


The thing is you had to call him on ^^this.^^ It seems to me, he tipped his hand. Remorseful? I think not. He's got the nerve to be bent out of shape because you are considering moving on? After what he did? 

What strikes me is (1) he's manipulating you, and (2) he's basically nothing more than a cake eater.

If you choose to stay, that's fine. It's your life to lead as you see fit. Me? Nope. Cheating is a complete deal breaker.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Kids know when something is off with mom and dad...

Have you asked him why ? There must have been some dynamic that was missing in your marriage before he cheated. 

Identifying the root cause could be helpful if you plan to R


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

TheGodfather said:


> i am curious if he cheated on you again, would you still stay in the marriage for your children?


not a chance in hell


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> not a chance in hell


you said in a reply to one my suggestions you didn't want to separate because of children. do you really believe in your heart he will be faithful to you? whether he cheats on you 1 time or 100 times your answer should be the same. you deserve better


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> The only thing I am somewhat confident in is that he is done at least physically cheating as since I decided not to divorce him we have Life360 and he tells me every move he makes...who knows what the future looks like though...


Sounds too exhausting.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> Kids know when something is off with mom and dad...
> 
> Have you asked him why ? There must have been some dynamic that was missing in your marriage before he cheated.
> 
> Identifying the root cause could be helpful if you plan to R


Where did you come up with this? Missing dynamic. Complete BS.
What was missing is character and integrity and empathy in her husband.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Nothing's 100% but I emailed her as she used her real email in a few messages (what a dumb ***), she emailed my husband to tell him she was going to proactively tell her husband before I did...I never did reach out to him though


Huh? You believe her? I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Some STDs show up months later. Although I am sure a woman he met on Ashley Madison is hygienic.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I like the idea of a deadline as that really would seem like a relief - just not sure how long to set it...like 3 months from today?


In retrospect, 3 months was too long.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> So he has been celibate for 6 months? Yet one woman ( you ) wasn't enough to keep faithful before that?
> 
> - I believe he hasn't had sex in 6 month, and apparently I wasn't enough
> 
> ...


- I bet he would have, so I guess it was "good" that I busted him before he had a chance to potentially infect me, the thought of him having sex with me after being with her makes me sick to even think about.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

If you never want sex with him leave. Because he’s going to go right back to cheating. He will not remain celibate, if he even is.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> Kids know when something is off with mom and dad...
> 
> Have you asked him why ? There must have been some dynamic that was missing in your marriage before he cheated.
> 
> Identifying the root cause could be helpful if you plan to R


The only thing we argued about in our marriage was intimacy. He has a higher sex drive then me and would get frustrated with me from time to time about it..no one put a gun to his head to force him to cheat though, this is all on him.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> Huh? You believe her? I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.


maybe it's bad but I don't care about this cheating ***** one bit or her husband.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Why do you give your husband a pass. Because horny guys need it and women should accept that? He’s just as much in the wrong.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> The only thing we argued about in our marriage was intimacy. He has a higher sex drive then me and would get frustrated with me from time to time


That is why I am VERY incredulous that he hadn’t been with anyone in 6 months. And that he is “ok” without sex for however long. What is his work schedule? I dont know what this 360 thing is but am betting he is still hooking up with someone. Why isnt he “frustrated” now? I would be climbing walls after six weeks, let alone six months.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jimi007 said:


> Kids know when something is off with mom and dad...
> 
> Have you asked him why ? There must have been some dynamic that was missing in your marriage before he cheated.
> 
> Identifying the root cause could be helpful if you plan to R


Some cheat no matter what is or isn't wrong in the marriage because they have no integrity.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> If you never want sex with him leave. Because he’s going to go right back to cheating. He will not remain celibate, if he even is.
> [/Q





snowbum said:


> Why do you give your husband a pass. Because horny guys need it and women should accept that? He’s just as much in the wrong.


 He's not getting a pass, just not sure what I want to do...trying to figure out if I even want to try to see if there is anything worth saving in our marriage or go ahead with the divorce


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

If sex with him disgusts you marriage is dead


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> That is why I am VERY incredulous that he hadn’t been with anyone in 6 months. And that he is “ok” without sex for however long. What is his work schedule? I dont know what this 360 thing is but am betting he is still hooking up with someone. Why isnt he “frustrated” now? I would be climbing walls after six weeks, let alone six months.


He's a high school guidance counselor (the irony I know), so he's either at work, home, or running a quick errand. Life360 tracks his phone movements so I always know where he is if I want to check and it keeps a log of where he's been...so far he's been exactly where he says he's going to be..nothing's foolproof I know but I just don't see how he could have met up with anyone...I've been fooled before though. Also, not that this matters or "counts" for anything but he did share that since I found out he no longer grooms down there, something he has done everyday since I've known him, I guess in a effort to show me he's not using it - I'm like whatever. He has no choice but to be frustrated while I'm trying to figure things out, don't feel too bad for him.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

He could be telling the truth. But the question is, do you want to live like this for the rest of your life? Or for years? Wondering, questioning, anxious, waiting to see if it happens again? That’s the problem with these things. Even if the cheater stops and truly tries to change, it’s hard to believe it will never happen again.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

In the end, you’re going to have to trust him (at least _mostly_) for your marriage to work and you to be happy.

How insurmountable does that sound?

The best way to get trust going in the right direction is seperation (so you can see clearly), full confession that you believe is true (or you can substitute a polygraph), and time.

And he needs to be moving heaven and earth to fix himself, the damage he’s done, and the relationship. (Mostly by leaving you alone though at this point).

If any of that is not happening or you shortcut it, chances of reconciliation drop and you might as well divorce right now and save yourself the heartache.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It’s a huge leap of faith to reconcile with a cheater. I did and lived to regret it. You may be successful but the problem is that you will never know if things will change. That was true from the day you met him but you don’t fully absorb that until you get burned.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

A little tough love here. 

I am getting a feeling you are basically sitting on the sidelines here waiting for him to decide what to do. You're not packing up and leaving,,,, but you're not making any effort to reconcile either. 

You're not taking any action to inform the other husband or kick the other woman's ass but you're not really doing anything to reconnect with your WH either. 

You're not drawing up divorce papers, but you're not participating in marital counseling either. 

You say you'll leave for sure if you find out there is more infidelity,, but you are not looking into it or investigating to see if there is anything else that you are not currently aware of. 

You say you're staying "for the children", but you really aren't doing anything in effort to make it happy, loving marriage and home for them to be in. 

You are sleeping in separate rooms and you say you have no desire for him, but you aren't packing to leave and move on but nor are you doing anything in attempt to reconnect as a couple. 

From what you've described, you're basically marking time and not really doing anything except continuing to eat and breathe and pay bills and make some kind of fruitless effort at appearing normal to the children ( who already know 100 times more than you think they do) 

Are you trying to run out the clock somehow? Are you waiting for him to leave so that you can blame him for cheating AND claim that he left you?? If so, you're probably going to be successful soon. He may be a cheater, but he doesn't have to live like this. He would be within his right to tell you to either pack bags and go or address the issues and try to work through it. Sht or get off the pot. 

Is this a big test for him for which he will never be able to pass? 

If you are trying to force his hand, it's probably going to happen sooner rather than later. 

Without putting blame on the kids as your excuse for your inaction, why are you still there? Are you trying to punish him by staying and preying on his guilt but also not putting forth any effort to try to make things better? Are you wanting him to be the one to file for divorce and him to pack up and leave? Are you trying to get him to pay the bills and support your faux lifestyle until the kids turn 18 and then walk away? 

What is your actual objective, game plan and strategy here??


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## karmagoround (Aug 27, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> The only thing we argued about in our marriage was intimacy. He has a higher sex drive then me and would get frustrated with me from time to time about it..no one put a gun to his head to force him to cheat though, this is all on him.


Were you already halfway there, as far as not physically wanting him? Affection is a big deal. How long did that go on and what did you do to try and fix the very important intimacy issues? Just go without dude, it's your problem... is not a solution. 

This might be presumptive and if so, disregard this reply. But if affection was a big problem for him before, how can you ever be enough for him? He may never cheat again, but I'm his mind, he'll always want what he can't have. He'll want to be desired. If that's always going to be impossible then be merciful and let him go find someone more affectionate, and you someone who can do with less affection.

The most wonderful thing in the world is love with affection. It's a shame y'all are missing out. 

You could divorce and find another man. But then you would be with be with a man again. If yours is any good, you might as well keep the one you got. But you'll have to find a way to keep him buttered up. This of course after his sincere repentance which would include everything it takes to help you heal... Perhaps a lifelong task. 

May you both find your way out of purgatory soon.


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## karmagoround (Aug 27, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> maybe it's bad but I don't care about this cheating *** one bit or her husband.


She might have said that to make you think that her H knows in hopes that you won't disclose. The point being is that the other BS should know so that he can keep an eye on his end. Shed light everywhere and darkness goes away.


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## karmagoround (Aug 27, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> He has no choice but to be frustrated while I'm trying to figure things out, don't feel too bad for him.


Did you feel bad for him before, when you were having conflict over intimacy? What do you think it felt like to him?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Without putting blame on the kids as your excuse for your inaction, why are you still there? ?


On a separate note, you need to reevaluate your assertion that you are staying, "for the children."

Are your intentions truly noble and virtuous, or are you making them responsible for you living in a house of smoke and mirrors and deception?

If you and your husband were to divorce, would one of both of you abandon the children or neglect them or abuse them? Would one or both of you stop loving them and supporting them and continue to be parents to them because you would no longer be married and no longer in the same house? Do houses and marriage licenses have so much power and influence that either or both of you would no longer love and support and nurture them??? 

What often happens when people stay "for the children" is they make 'the children' responsible and to blame for their own unhappiness and dysfunction and that is a responsibility that no child wants, deserves or should ever be expected to shoulder. 

You say you are staying for the children, but I don't see that you are doing anything to insure that they have an actual stable household with two loving and committed parents in home. You've been doing a good job of play-acting that all is well so far but how long is that going to last? How long can you both continue to play this charade? 

I can not advise you whether to stay and attempt reconciliation or whether to divorce. Only you or he can make that decision. 

But what I can advise you is that you need to sht or get off the pot and do one or the other. This state of marital purgatory you've created will not last, it will come down like a fake house of cards at some point. 

You have valid grounds for a divorce and to move on with your own life. It is justified. 

If you want to try to work things out and reconcile as a couple, you can do that as well. 

But either of those options will take work and effort and tears and heartache and soul-searching and change. Either option will be hard. But you can't avoid the hard and avoid the tears by pretending this isn't happening and all is well. You will have to choose your hard. It's like being obese. Being obese is hard and difficult to live with. But dieting and exercise is hard too. In the end you will need to chose your hard. Doing nothing is also a choice, but if you do nothing, then here you are. 

Realistically, how long is your H going to sit in purgatory? How long before he says he tried and he made the offer but you chose to sit on your hands and do nothing? How long before he decides he's been punished enough and it's time to move on with his own life? How long before he decides he has pleaded and begged and negotiated and offered and put up with enough? How long before he wants to live again? How long before his guilt and shame fades and he starts to see you as the asshole? 

I can't tell you whether you should leave or try to reconcile. But I can say that this is not living for either one of you and both of you are probably suffering and living in angst and distress and it's all taking a toll on you. 

You may be able to do some hard work and soul searching and heavy lifting and reconcile and go on to live a happy, healthy and productive life with reconciliation. It does happen and some people are able to do it. 

There's a very good chance you can go on to live a happy, healthy and productive life if you divorce and move on with your own life. 

But either one of those will require the decision and the work and the effort to do it. Doing nothing is going to get you what you have right now.


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## lmucamac (4 mo ago)

i just read the first paragraph and stopped. “the kids don’t know anythings wrong”…. I’m sure your kids know there are major issues in your marriage. Stop fooling yourself.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> He's a high school guidance counselor (the irony I know), so he's either at work,


You ought to read some of the threads on here by husbands whose wives "worked" in education and were very active at the school with the male gym teacher, male administrator, male whatever. One husband's wife was involved in a group of women who were all doing the gym teacher. Your "husband"s workplace is a "fertile field" with a high ratio of women to men, so he could be a "prize" where he works. I am very surprised he hasn't been getting it on over the years where he works. Just saying people's character rarely changes. His true character that you discovered last Spring is who he actually has always been. Maybe he just got lazy hiding who he was, or maybe unconsciously wanted to get caught.

Also, FWIW, he can leave his phone in the desk drawer while going off campus for a quick "lunch" break. Or he can easily buy a "burner" phone you know nothing about and leave the one you track in his car. People sneaking around can find a way over any fences. 

BTW I am betting his "grooming" was never about being "attractive" for you. Personally find the whole concept rather strange for a monogamous male. I thought that was a female "thing".


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> we talk kindly to each other but I am reluctant to talk about the marriage. He often asks me if I'd like to talk but I just don't "feel it" right now so we haven't talked about the marriage in some time. We did a few marriage counseling appointments a few months back but they didn't do much for me so we haven't had any counseling since then.


If you opt for a divorce, you can do everything through the lawyers and the courts and you won’t have to speak to him. It will cost you most of the marital assets in court costs and lawyer fees but it can be done. 

However if you are to live a somewhat peaceful and functional life together under the same roof and have a healthy environment for the kids, you are going to have to speak to each other and address the issues whether you “feel it” or not. 

You’re going to “feel” bad at times. There will be times you “feel” hurt, angry, sad, disappointed, worried etc etc 

You will “feel” those things whether you reconcile, divorce or continue to live in purgatory. You’ll have unpleasantness regardless of which path you go down so pick your hard. 

Your refusal to face issues and difficult topics is one of the factors that has gotten you into this situation and Velcroing your ovaries back on and facing realities whether they are pleasant or not is the only way you can get yourself out of it.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Marriage requires intimacy. If you refuse sex you’re in a babysitting situation and your kids know that.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> That is why I am VERY incredulous that he hadn’t been with anyone in 6 months. And that he is “ok” without sex for however long. What is his work schedule? I dont know what this 360 thing is but am betting he is still hooking up with someone. Why isnt he “frustrated” now? I would be climbing walls after six weeks, let alone six months.


I can believe he can stay celibate that long and longer.
Regardless, I do not think she knows his entire history re cheating. I cannot believe she happened to discover his only forays.
Nor can I imagine ever being able to trust him again. Some people do , however, stay and regain some level of trust, I guess.
People have a wide range of tolerance for cheating. Key is to figure out one's tolerance.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> I can believe he can stay celibate that long and longer.


I am judging him from the lens of my personal experience. I am an old man, and can't imagine going without for months.


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## CTPROF (6 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> Huh? You believe her? I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.


I agree with Megaforce. Cheaters lie. Period. End of story. I'd bet that her husband will hear nary a word from her. He deserves to know and you are the only person who can give him the straight-up goods. 
And marriage counseling will not help if there are marital issues.
This is a personality issue and a marriage counselor who can help with cheating is rare. You and your husband need individual counseling. 
As for the children, I agree with others who have posted. Your kids already know something is wrong. They are perceptive and staying in a marriage just for the kids sends them a bad message about what is and what is not acceptable. It is better to divorce than to have them see an unhappy mother in an unfulfilling marriage.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> He's a high school guidance counselor (the irony I know), so he's either at work, home, or running a quick errand. Life360 tracks his phone movements so I always know where he is if I want to check and it keeps a log of where he's been...so far he's been exactly where he says he's going to be..nothing's foolproof I know but I just don't see how he could have met up with anyone...I've been fooled before though. Also, not that this matters or "counts" for anything but he did share that since I found out he no longer grooms down there, something he has done everyday since I've known him, I guess in a effort to show me he's not using it - I'm like whatever. He has no choice but to be frustrated while I'm trying to figure things out, don't feel too bad for him.


What difference does it make if you can track him and everything seems on the up and up? He disgusts you (for good reason) and your marriage is nothing. You won't sleep with him, he is a cheater-- which means he will find that somewhere else. So...yeah... keep tracking him on Life360 or move on with your life. Surely you have higher goals.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> He could be telling the truth. But the question is, do you want to live like this for the rest of your life? Or for years? Wondering, questioning, anxious, waiting to see if it happens again? That’s the problem with these things. Even if the cheater stops and truly tries to change, it’s hard to believe it will never happen again.


That's a big question for me - if I decide to stay and work things out will I be happier 5 years, 10 yeasr from now with him, or without him? I wish I had a crystal ball..or a time machine.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> A little tough love here.
> 
> I am getting a feeling you are basically sitting on the sidelines here waiting for him to decide what to do. You're not packing up and leaving,,,, but you're not making any effort to reconcile either.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this, it really sums up what's going on in my head pretty accurately & the purgatory my marriage is right now. A plan I am now thinking about is that after the holidays is to begin trying to reconcile with him..maybe start Jan 1st..(new year, new marriage?), and put a decide date of 2-3 months from then. I really feel I need to stay in "limbo" to get through stressful Christmas's with my family and his family. What are your thoughts on this plan? Thanks again.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> That's a big question for me - if I decide to stay and work things out will I be happier 5 years, 10 yeasr from now with him, or without him? I wish I had a crystal ball..or a time machine.


Yea, it’s really a difficult choice. For me, it’s always been a dealbreaker for reasons I’ve mentioned (it would change me into this worrier etc) but also because I know that there would be other men out there who would treat me far better and would never cheat.

To put all that work into someone who hurt me like that, I don’t see the incentive. Your husband wouldn’t have stopped unless you caught him. So, that is what would also play in my mind.

Look at all the time you’ve wasted thinking and pondering and wondering about your husband and what to do next. Is he worth it? Idk. You have memories of him that probably keep you there but he’s not that guy anymore.

That’s just how I see it, but you have to figure out what you actually can see yourself living with. And is it worth it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> That's a big question for me - if I decide to stay and work things out will I be happier 5 years, 10 yeasr from now with him, or without him? I wish I had a crystal ball..or a time machine.


That’s always the question when you reconcile with a cheater. You take a chance — sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. Mine ultimately didn’t work so I tend to be skeptical about any reconciliation succeeding but my experience definitely isn’t universal. What I regret is not getting out sooner than I did but for years I felt I would regret leaving so I stayed. Big mistake but obviously I didn’t know that then.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> You ought to read some of the threads on here by husbands whose wives "worked" in education and were very active at the school with the male gym teacher, male administrator, male whatever. One husband's wife was involved in a group of women who were all doing the gym teacher. Your "husband"s workplace is a "fertile field" with a high ratio of women to men, so he could be a "prize" where he works. I am very surprised he hasn't been getting it on over the years where he works. Just saying people's character rarely changes. His true character that you discovered last Spring is who he actually has always been. Maybe he just got lazy hiding who he was, or maybe unconsciously wanted to get caught.
> 
> Also, FWIW, he can leave his phone in the desk drawer while going off campus for a quick "lunch" break. Or he can easily buy a "burner" phone you know nothing about and leave the one you track in his car. People sneaking around can find a way over any fences.
> 
> BTW I am betting his "grooming" was never about being "attractive" for you. Personally find the whole concept rather strange for a monogamous male. I thought that was a female "thing".


Good points about his job, seems like I've been pretty naive thinking that there's no chance he could possibly be cheating now.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

lmucamac said:


> i just read the first paragraph and stopped. “the kids don’t know anythings wrong”…. I’m sure your kids know there are major issues in your marriage. Stop fooling yourself.


I could be naive on this one too but it really doesn't seem like they sense anything is different. We get along well like normal in front of them, he tucks our son in at night and wakes him up in the morning. Yesterday morning our daughter knocked on my door to ask him a question, thinking he was still in bed - he was downstairs but was up in a second; they know he gets up earlier then me so nothing out of the ordinary there.....could be wrong though.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

What's scary about your husband is he probably did all of that during the timeframe when he was cheating. So, he's quite good at wearing a mask...even one that you didn't detect.

It's not just about the cheating, it's that to carry on like that to the point that no one in the house suspected a thing, is very chilling. That means, he wasn't uneasy about what he was doing, at all. He doesn't want his lifestyle to go away, to have to pay child support, etc.

I wish divorce wasn't so challenging, because I'm of the opinion that many people stay because they stand to lose a lot, in terms of finances and time with their kids.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Good points about his job, seems like I've been pretty naive thinking that there's no chance he could possibly be cheating now.


Never think there’s not an opportunity to cheat. My exH was home every night at 7 pm and never went anywhere except work and the gym but those are two prime places to find AP’s.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

karmagoround said:


> Were you already halfway there, as far as not physically wanting him? Affection is a big deal. How long did that go on and what did you do to try and fix the very important intimacy issues? Just go without dude, it's your problem... is not a solution.
> 
> This might be presumptive and if so, disregard this reply. But if affection was a big problem for him before, how can you ever be enough for him? He may never cheat again, but I'm his mind, he'll always want what he can't have. He'll want to be desired. If that's always going to be impossible then be merciful and let him go find someone more affectionate, and you someone who can do with less affection.
> 
> ...


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Your husband could have left you, OP. He didn't ''need'' to cheat. So, you'll get a mixed bag of responses, some trying to blame you for why he cheated. He cheated because he lacks character. Many men would have perhaps told you that this isn't working for them, and would have divorced you. Or threatened to divorce you, and you would at least have been given the opportunity to improve things. 

Intimacy and sex _is_ very important in a marriage, but there are other options that people have than to resort to cheating, lying, and betraying their spouse and kids. 

So, if your husband lost his job and you need money to live, that would be okay to cheat as well? See, we could play that game in reverse. 

If someone isn't happy with the level of intimacy in their marriage, they should speak up about it, and not resort to going outside of the marriage. Because that will never solve the problem, anyway and will cause more problems, if anything.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Thank you for this, it really sums up what's going on in my head pretty accurately & the purgatory my marriage is right now. A plan I am now thinking about is that after the holidays is to begin trying to reconcile with him..maybe start Jan 1st..(new year, new marriage?), and put a decide date of 2-3 months from then. I really feel I need to stay in "limbo" to get through stressful Christmas's with my family and his family. What are your thoughts on this plan? Thanks again.


Keep in mind there will always be something. 

After Christmas will come New Years. After New Years will come Presidents Day. After Presidents Day will come Ground Hod Day. After Ground Hog Day will come Valentines. After Valentines will come St Patrick's Day......

And life will go on and life events will always keep coming as well that will give you an excuse for inaction. The kids will need braces, Someone will get a bad grade at school. Someone will get Covid. Your Aunt Petunia will fall and break her hip and need help around the house. The cat will need a tumor removed. The car will break down. There will be job stresses, there will be family stresses, your parents will get sick, his parents will get sick. All of these things are going to keep on going and if you are looking for excuses to sit on your hands doing nothing, then all of them will keep you from taking action. 

Your ultimate question here was how to get out of limbo. You get out of limbo and you get out of marital purgatory by standing up, pulling up your Big-Girl britches and taking action. 

Morgan Freeman said it best in the Shawshank Redemption - Get busy living or get busy dying. 

You two might be able to make reconciliation work and you might be able to go on to live a happy and healthy life. 

You two can definately make divorce work and each of you go on to make a new life for yourself on your own. 

But both of those things are going to take decision making and blood sweat and tears. The blood, sweat and tears are going to come no matter what you do. 

Either option is going to involve facing your demons, rolling up your sleeves and start digging in and doing the work. 

You are hiding behind your kids and placing the blame on them and that is not fair to them. YOU are responsible for your avoidance and your refusal to face the facts and take action. 

Your H has been accommodating and playing nice so far. How long do you think that will last? How long before his guilt wears off and he wants to live life again and simply leaves you behind in your own inaction? 

You can make excuses or you can make progress and make a life for yourself. The excuses will always be there. So it's your choice and your decision.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Thank you for this, it really sums up what's going on in my head pretty accurately & the purgatory my marriage is right now. A plan I am now thinking about is that after the holidays is to begin trying to reconcile with him..maybe start Jan 1st..(new year, new marriage?), and put a decide date of 2-3 months from then. I really feel I need to stay in "limbo" to get through stressful Christmas's with my family and his family. What are your thoughts on this plan? Thanks again.


It is fine, but, whatever you do, do not get marriage counseling. He is the problem, not the marriage. You go to marriage counseling and you are likely to hear you contributed to the cheating, much like one poster's comment about deficient dynamics.
Your husband will buy into sharing the blame with you big time if he hears some" expert" placing some responsibility on you. Avoid this bogus profession.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

karmagoround said:


> Did you feel bad for him before, when you were having conflict over intimacy? What do you think it felt like to him?


Regardless, he did not need to cheat. That is a dishonorable way to handle dissatisfaction. Plus, it is emotionally abusive and puts both her mental and physical health a t risk.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Keep in mind there will always be something.
> 
> After Christmas will come New Years. After New Years will come Presidents Day. After Presidents Day will come Ground Hod Day. After Ground Hog Day will come Valentines. After Valentines will come St Patrick's Day......
> 
> ...


It is early on. Many are still figuring out what way to go at this point. Nothing wrong with a little contemplation and planning.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I am judging him from the lens of my personal experience. I am an old man, and can't imagine going without for months.


You get used to it. It was worse when I was young and married. They say single men have more sex than married. Think there was a study done. True for me, anyway.
Always wondered why, if the Catholic church was insistent on celibacy for priests, it did not insist they marry 😊


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> maybe it's bad but I don't care about this cheating *** one bit or her husband.


You should rethink this from a fundamental fairness perspective. The old " Do unto others" deal.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> It is early on. Many are still figuring out what way to go at this point. Nothing wrong with a little contemplation and planning.


I would agree with the contemplation and planning if she was actually contemplating and planning something.

But what she is describing here is indecision, inaction and making appearances that all is well. 

The word she used is limbo and it is an accurate word. We achieve limbo through indecision and inaction. 

Contemplation and planning are action words. But they achieve nothing if not put into action.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

messed up trying to quote karmagoround, post is below


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> karmagoround said:
> 
> *Were you already halfway there, as far as not physically wanting him? Affection is a big deal. How long did that go on and what did you do to try and fix the very important intimacy issues? Just go without dude, it's your problem... is not a solution.*


It's been an issue for us for a long time. It's not that I'm not physically attracted to him, but his libido is way higher then mine. He literally needs (or needed) to have an orgasm every night. I usually helped him with BJ's and helping him with HJ's (have arthritis in elbow so I can't physically do the whole thing), but we wouldn't have sex as much as he wanted. Often times he would just come to bed a little later then me, taking care of himself before coming to bed. Sometimes we have gone months without intercourse - we must have had a long dry spell back in 2016 as a couple of months ago he forwarded me an email he sent me back then on "how to survive a sexless marriage". I'm sure he did that to try to put some blame on me about his affairs

So, I just don't know how intimacy would look for us. The only thing I do know for sure is that he is going to want to do something with me, or it, every night (does he have a problem with having to have an orgasm every night?) I just don't know how things would work in the bedroom to where we both can be happy. I could "step my game up" and have sex on a regular basis as I enjoy it when I'm not tired, but the every night thing he says he "has to do" has worn on me, to the point where I almost didn't mind him taking care of things in the basement. Any advice would be great as this is a major hang-up for me in deciding what to do.[/QUOTE]


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's been an issue for us for a long time. It's not that I'm not physically attracted to him, but his libido is way higher then mine. He literally needs (or needed) to have an orgasm every night. I usually helped him with BJ's and helping him with HJ's (have arthritis in elbow so I can't physically do the whole thing), but we wouldn't have sex as much as he wanted. Often times he would just come to bed a little later then me, taking care of himself before coming to bed. Sometimes we have gone months without intercourse - we must have had a long dry spell back in 2016 as a couple of months ago he forwarded me an email he sent me back then on "how to survive a sexless marriage". I'm sure he did that to try to put some blame on me about his affairs
> 
> So, I just don't know how intimacy would look for us. The only thing I do know for sure is that he is going to want to do something with me, or it, every night (does he have a problem with having to have an orgasm every night?) I just don't know how things would work in the bedroom to where we both can be happy. I could "step my game up" and have sex on a regular basis as I enjoy it when I'm not tired, but the every night thing he says he "has to do" has worn on me, to the point where I almost didn't mind him taking care of things in the basement. Any advice would be great as this is a major hang-up for me in deciding what to do.


[/QUOTE]

The issue of intimacy is what Chump Lady calls the Turd Sandwich for people trying to reconcile. 

Your disgust and repulsion at the thought of being intimate with him is certainly understandable and normal.

But in order to remain together long term in a somewhat healthy and happy relationship, the WS has to actually want to remain there and their wants and needs will have to be addressed at some point. You can’t expect them to be punished and deprived forever and have a remotely functioning relationship. 

Does that mean you have to have sex with him every day just because he wants to? No of course not. But it does mean that in order for someone to stay in a long term relationship and have any semblance of a functional married life, their needs are going to need to be addressed and if you cannot get past being revolted by him and continue to reject him undefinately and refuse to address it, He is in his right to move on.

That is a bitter pill to swallow, hence the term Turn Sandwich. 

Some people simply can’t do it and can not reconnect. That’s the risk the WS takes when they step out. 

If you are considering reconciling, that is one of the many things that will need to be discussed and addressed.

He is simply not going to just accept that he had his fun and now he will just have to live without forever.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Does that mean you have to have sex with him every day just because he wants to? No of course not. But it does mean that in order for someone to stay in a long term relationship and have any semblance of a functional married life, their needs are going to need to be addressed and if you cannot get past being revolted by him and continue to reject him undefinately and refuse to address it, He is in his right to move on.


He is simply not going to just accept that he had his fun and now he will just have to live without forever.
[/QUOTE]


I need to make an important distinction and clarification here. I am not saying you have to start laying him like tile today or he will for sure walk. This is going to be a long, hard process and it may be many months or longer before you even start to hold hands legitimately. 

The actual critical point here is not that you are not having an active sex life at this time. The real deal breaker would likely be that you are refusing to talk about it and refusing counseling etc etc. 

People can usually accept that their sexlife may be on hold for awhile during a crisis,, especially a crisis that was of their own making and due to the own bad behavior. 

But it's the refusal to address it and refusal to talk about and refusal to seek professional assistance for it that will rightly and legitimately throw in the towel and start packing up. 

Your H is probably staying and accepting this out of guilt and his own avoidance at the moment. The question though is for how much longer?

If I were in your H's shoes and I had cheated and my wife was remaining in the house and acting like everything hunky dory to the kids and to the public but behind the scenes couldn't stand to be in the same room with me, refused to discuss it or address any of the issues and refused to go to professional assistance, but yet just expected me to keep on acting like everything was A-OK and expected me to just live in the basement indefinitely and just kept me around to help pay rent and pay utilities and portray some kind of public image of a family,,,,,,,, the answer would be nope, notta, no how. 

I'd probably act guilty and sit in the corner in my naughty chair for a few weeks. But if I was being met by a refusal to take any definitive action one way or another and a refusal to even discuss it or address issues or seek professional counseling - I would take that as my invitation to pack my own bags and carry on with my own life without her. 

Even though I may have been the one committing the initial offense, I would see her refusal to address anything as her declaration of the marriage's demise and that she didn't want to be the one to dig the grave and dispose of it's rotting corpse. 
- Exit Stage Left. 

So TLDR, the lack of wild monkey sex every night is likely not going to be deal breaker and most rational people will understand it will take a lot of work and a lot of heavy lifting for quite some time before a functional sex life resumes. 

But a refusal to even discuss or address issues and refusal to take any constructive means to address very serious problems is a very rightful reason to close up shop and move on.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@husbandruinedeverything99 - Your holding pattern will not keep things in limbo as things presently stand. Rather, it is sending a message to your husband that there's really nothing he can do to change the outcome- that being, a marriage in which intimacy is gone. You have really good reasons for feeling repulsed about intimacy with your cheating husband. But you've moved on. It's not really a marriage if there is no feeling that he can earn his way back into an intimate relationship with his wife. We all, you included, want to make the best of the situation we're given. What's the best he can hope for here?

You have, I suspect, very little time to get your tail in gear and choose. Otherwise, the choice he makes is a foregone conclusion, because you have stepped out. Again, that's fine, but be honest about it. Tell him the marriage is over, and it's time to divorce, because your new boundaries preclude an intimate relationship. 

Is that what you want? He's a cheater so by definition a terrible person. But you can't expect him to put his life on hold much longer. From what you say, he's done an admirable job so far, assuming that he's not still cheating. And if you want to make sure he's not still cheating, you can put a VAR in his car and find out if he's got a burner phone he's talking to an AP with. You could even hire a PI. If you could put your mind at rest, know that he's not cheating, that's he's just treading water waiting for you... then what? That can't continue. Do. Something.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> If I were in your H's shoes and I had cheated and my wife was remaining in the house and acting like everything hunky dory to the kids and to the public but behind the scenes couldn't stand to be in the same room with me, refused to discuss it or address any of the issues and refused to go to professional assistance, but yet just expected me to keep on acting like everything was A-OK and expected me to just live in the basement indefinitely and just kept me around to help pay rent and pay utilities and portray some kind of public image of a family,,,,,,,, the answer would be nope, notta, no how.


It's weird, when we are alone together we chat just fine, I really don't mind being in the same room with him..it's kind of awkward but we carry on just fine, just can't think about being intimate with him is the biggie. I agree I do need to try to get out of this limbo, it's not good for either one of us. I wish I had discovered TAM earlier as this is the best advice I've gotten by far, & whoever came up the turd sandwich analogy really knew what they were talking about...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> He literally needs (or needed) to have an orgasm every night.


Do you really think his needs have changed?!? IMO his needs are even more urgent now.



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> The only thing I do know for sure is that he is going to want to do something with me, or it, every night


Yes



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I just don't know how things would work in the bedroom to where we both can be happy.


So there you have it. The problems that already existed he has made infinitely worse by going outside of the marriage. Now you can't even contemplate being intimate with him. 

I think @oldshirt captured one of the major issues. And it isn't going to improve with time, which is what you need for yourself. I recall reading that Reconciliation is a 2-5 year process. Maybe you ought to have a heart-to-heart surrounding how the two of you can ever accomplish that. IMO it is a bridge too far.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Did you ever ask him why he had an affair, most people have a reason even if it is illogical or delusional.

No doubt other will claim it is because he is of low moral, entitled, etc,

I have walked the cliff edge of infidelity and I am aware of how easily I could have fallen.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> I recall reading that Reconciliation is a 2-5 year process. Maybe you ought to have a heart-to-heart surrounding how the two of you can ever accomplish that. IMO it is a bridge too far.


But she hasn’t decided if she even wants to step foot on that bridge. If she’s ambivalent, she should just exit now. Making R work is tough and requires commitment, not resignation.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

Kput said:


> Did you ever ask him why he had an affair, most people have a reason even if it is illogical or delusional.


Yeah, he said he was bored and sexually frustrated - he did say he should have communicated with me & dealt w/ his boredom and frustration in a better way (ya think?).


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> The only thing we argued about in our marriage was intimacy. He has a higher sex drive then me and would get frustrated with me from time to time about it..no one put a gun to his head to force him to cheat though, this is all on him.


I wonder what your response would have been if instead of cheating, he had told you that he wanted a divorce because he didn't want to be in a sexless marriage anymore? 

After reading your posts, I am not sure that there is much hope for restoring your relationship. You seem detached and avoidant, even before the cheating. You actually said you went MONTHS with no sex, and didn't seem like you paid much attention to your husband's needs at all, even knowing he was very unhappy. 

Now you haven't been willing to do anything to reconcile after his infidelity. You didn't sound comfortable with physical or emotional intimacy before he cheated, so now it's going to be even harder for you to connect. You seem to want to keep the status quo (because you are satisfied with it), and aren't willing to do any work or make any changes in your comfort level to improve your marriage or to include your husband in it with you. This is a BAD indicator of where your relationship is headed, unless you are willing to open up and do the hard work to be more intimate in every way.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

No offense but it appears to me that you want things to remain as they are so you can continue (rightly or wrongly) to punish him.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Kput said:


> No offense but it appears to me that you want things to remain as they are so you can continue (rightly or wrongly) to punish him.


It feels a bit like the punishment isn’t new, it’s a continuation. Again, we can’t excuse the husband; it was his responsibility to suggest options and discuss before taking unilateral action.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> It feels a bit like the punishment isn’t new, it’s a continuation. Again, we can’t excuse the husband; it was his responsibility to suggest options and discuss before taking unilateral action.


Just a thought but I wonder how long it takes to go from trying to "energise" the sexual relationship to giving up and finding an alternative.

I AM NOT saying it was the case in this thread but it makes you wonder.

I do not have the "black and white" thinking of some posters and can see shades of grey.

Understanding infidelity does not mean condoning it or for that manner condemning it.

I personally know of two adulterers and am aware of their reasons, I like both of them quite a lot and in their position would maybe have done the same.

Walk a mile in their shoes.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

My apologies for the t/j


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> I wonder what your response would have been if instead of cheating, he had told you that he wanted a divorce because he didn't want to be in a sexless marriage anymore?


That is an interesting hypothetical...I probably would have said let's try to work on things, at least for the kids sake. I would feel that would be selfish of him to blow up the family just because he wasn't getting it enough.



Casual Observer said:


> It feels a bit like the punishment isn’t new, it’s a continuation. Again, we can’t excuse the husband; it was his responsibility to suggest options and discuss before taking unilateral action.


My intent isn't to punish him, I'm just not ready to try to work towards repairing the damage he did to our marriage...not sure I'll ever be, but I do need to try as this limbo isn't sustainable.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> That is an interesting hypothetical...I probably would have said let's try to work on things, at least for the kids sake. I would feel that would be selfish of him to blow up the family just because he wasn't getting it enough.
> 
> 
> 
> My intent isn't to punish him, I'm just not ready to try to work towards repairing the damage he did to our marriage...not sure I'll ever be, but I do need to try as this limbo isn't sustainable.


Did you talk about this (your lack of desire) much? Or did he bring it up and you told him what he wanted was unreasonable and that was that? Did you truly love him or was it a situation where he was a good dad and you were happy with the arrangement even if he wasn’t?

There are three entities in a marriage. The two spouses individually, and the relationship/marriage. My wife was happily married, whether I was or not. That’s not how it works. Either of you should have great concern over the other’s happiness, and accept that it’s a bit of a facade you present to the world when you think the “family” is more important than your relationship with your spouse.

Neither gets to say “I’m ok with this; it’s your problem” and expect resentment not to build.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> eah, he said he was bored and sexually frustrated - he did say he should have communicated with me & dealt w/ his boredom and frustration in a better way (ya think?).


His answer can't have been a surprise. You said that this had been a major issue for a long time. You mentioned 2016 and an email about living in a sexless marriage as his shot across the bow so to speak.



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I would feel that would be selfish of him to blow up the family just because he wasn't getting it enough.


And that is exactly what he did. Blew up his family because he wasn't getting enough. The flesh is weak though the spirit may be willing. So if he had filed for divorce the result would have been the same and been as selfish I suppose. 

It would have been the honorable way forward for him to have said back in 2016 "This isn't working for me, I didn't take a vow of celibacy. Here are the papers, my attorney will be in contact with yours to work out the details of support and custody". Both of you would have already been living your new lives in better direction. Instead you are both six years older and in the same exact place.

Nothing unusual here. If you peruse the pages of this forum you will see this a lot from both genders. People who weren't getting enough of what they needed blowing up their families and lives. Sex, attention, listening to them, validation, all kinds of things.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> This is a BAD indicator of where your relationship is headed, unless you are willing to open up and do the hard work to be more intimate in every way.


The problem is that the cheater is 100% responsible for fixing the relationship. The hard work has to be on the part of the person who broke it. @husbandruinedeverything99 can tolerate being in the same room with her "husband", but can't stand the thought of him touching her, certainly not in an intimate way. His drive hasn't gone to zero just because he is a no good low life cheating whatever. So there is no way he can even begin to try to repair the damage. Their marriage wasn't rainbows and unicorns before he tried to set up the MFM and took his GF for ride in his boat. He burned it to the ground. 

It really doesn't matter what decision @husbandruinedeverything99 makes or when. IMO husband will bail before much more time goes by. He might as will be living in a cheap flat eating PB sandwiches as living in the basement.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's weird, when we are alone together we chat just fine, I really don't mind being in the same room with him..it's kind of awkward but we carry on just fine, just can't think about being intimate with him is the biggie. I agree I do need to try to get out of this limbo, it's not good for either one of us. I wish I had discovered TAM earlier as this is the best advice I've gotten by far, & whoever came up the turd sandwich analogy really knew what they were talking about...


I don't know if the concept of the Turd Sandwich precedes the Chump Lady website but I give her credit for it's introduction. 

But anyway, the fact that you have been in this limbo for 6 months following a bombshell and potentially life-changing event, leads me to believe that the reason you have remained in this limbo is because you are in fact benefiting from it. 

Is it possible that the benefit is that now you can have all the benefits of marriage such as financial resources, shared parenting, division of household chores, someone to kill spiders etc etc, but now you have your reason to sleep in separate rooms and he is being cooperative and compliant in a sexless marriage????

Has his cheating given you your excuse to not be intimate with him at all now without any argument from him? 

Is the reason you are now seeking input after 6 months because deep down you know that his sense of guilt and compliance will soon be wearing thin and that he will soon be (rightly) wanting you to come out and state whether you want to split up and go your separate ways or make full attempt for a real reconciliation? 

Don't get me wrong, we all understand your disgust and anger and loss of desire for him in the aftermath of his infidelity. No one is questioning that. 

But your lack of action one way or another whether it be divorce vs reconciliation leads me to believe that you are actually benefiting from this state of limbo in some way and that it is of benefit to you to keep him hanging on in the home. Keep him doing chores and favors for you, keep him paying bills and coparenting the kids and killing spiders,,, but yet now you are able to keep him at arm's length and have him keep his hands to himself and you are able rebuff him sexually without his protest. 

Am I completely wrong here?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I wonder what your response would have been if instead of cheating, he had told you that he wanted a divorce because he didn't want to be in a sexless marriage anymore?





husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> That is an interesting hypothetical...I probably would have said let's try to work on things, at least for the kids sake. I would feel that would be selfish of him to blow up the family just because he wasn't getting it enough.


Was this truly a hypothetical question though? Or has he tried to address the intimacy issues prior to his affair over the years? 

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that he did not explicitly state he was going to divorce you over it, but did he make any sincere efforts to address his dissatisfaction but you weren't "feeling it" (your term) and didn't want to discuss it or told him it was his issue for him to take care of on his own? 

I'm not trying to gang up on your or say that his cheating is on you. His cheating was his choice (as opposed to leaving you which a lot of people think he should have done instead) 

What I am getting at here is to take an honest and realistic look at what you want out of this marriage vs what really do not want and if the dichotomy in those two things are what is keeping you in this state of limbo. 

Honest question - are you actually happier now with him in the basement and being all pleasant and cooperative and compliant and not trying to get in your knickers all the time than you were before the affair and he was wanting to have sex with you? 

Is this the reason it has gone on for 6 months with no meaningful attempt to rock the boat or challenge the current status quo by either facing divorce or facing attempt at a full reconciliation?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I would agree with the contemplation and planning if she was actually contemplating and planning something.
> 
> But what she is describing here is indecision, inaction and making appearances that all is well.
> 
> ...


The whole process of coming here, seeking advice constitutes action. I do not think a mere six months to recover and think about things is extreme.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> No offense but it appears to me that you want things to remain as they are so you can continue (rightly or wrongly) to punish him.


Punishment or benefit? 

From what she is describing, their current relationship sounds pretty cordial and companionate if not actually, dare I say...pleasant. 

That doesn't exactly sound like she's raking him over the coals or making him pay to me. 

I'm beginning to wonder if the reason this has been going on for 6 months without any progress towards D or R or even her digging any further into the details or factors of the affair or giving any thought to kicking the OW's ass or disclosing to the OW's BH or actually doing much of ANYTHING, is because she is benefiting from the current status quo and current domestic lifestyle. 

I'm beginning to wonder if the reason she is here is asking how to get out of limbo is not so much because the uncertainty is driving her crazy or that she is miserable not knowing what is going to happen next or that she is pulling her hair out with indecision - but rather she is realizing that he is not going to live with this forever and that he will soon be putting her feet to the fire to make a choice one way or another or he will.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> But she hasn’t decided if she even wants to step foot on that bridge. If she’s ambivalent, she should just exit now. Making R work is tough and requires commitment, not resignation.


After only 6 months? I am of the opinion that the trauma is so great that it is pretty normal at this point to be unsure. 6 months is not a long time.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> The whole process of coming here, seeking advice constitutes action. I do not think a mere six months to recover and think about things is extreme.


Recovery could take years. No one is questioning the time required to recover. 

I'm questioning the time she's taking to do anything.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Was this truly a hypothetical question though? Or has he tried to address the intimacy issues prior to his affair over the years?
> 
> I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that he did not explicitly state he was going to divorce you over it, but did he make any sincere efforts to address his dissatisfaction but you weren't "feeling it" (your term) and didn't want to discuss it or told him it was his issue for him to take care of on his own?
> 
> ...


Where did LisaDane come up with the idea they had a sexless marriage pre affair? The way it is described, sounds like what they had is on the high end of activity in an 18 year marriage with two kids. Why does his libido Trump hers? Perhaps he should have been the one doing the accommodating or compromising. 
Perhaps she should have cheated because his drive did not match hers. Maybe look for a more compatible match, like he did.
This puke cheated and could have killed his wife with an STD. Seems if he really is remorseful and desirous of changing, 6 months is a minimal investment. How much real change could he have undergone in that time.
Plus, he is still in the incubation period for certain STDs. Think she should risk it already? Who knows what she will contract. This was an Ashley Madison deal. Think someone on there might just be a touch promiscuous?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Recovery could take years. No one is questioning the time required to recover.
> 
> I'm questioning the time she's taking to do anything.


Right, and in 6 months after already had some marriage counseling and now she has taken it a step further and come here. Sounds relatively active for a severely traumatized person. On some sites and publications, it is recommended to do nothing for 6 months except focus on your healing. Many folks are sleep deprived and have undergone massive weight loss in that period. Folks are so disoriented in the first year or so, I' d say she is more proactive than many victims.
Does getting counseling and seeking advice here count for nothing?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Right, and in 6 months after already had some marriage counseling and now she has taken it a step further and come here. Sounds relatively active for a severely traumatized person. On some sites and publications, it is recommended to something for 6 months except focus on your healing. Many folks are sleep deprived and have undergone massive weight loss in that period. Folks are so disoriented in the first year or so, I' d say she is more proactive than many victims.
> Does getting counseling and seeking advice here count for nothing?


Nothing, not som


oldshirt said:


> Punishment or benefit?
> 
> From what she is describing, their current relationship sounds pretty cordial and companionate if not actually, dare I say...pleasant.
> 
> ...


What benefit does she derive. She now has a problem with physical intimacy whereas before she enjoyed sex with her husband, just not as frequently as he desired. Now she, rightfully, feels no attraction whereas before she did and enjoyed sex with him.
So, exactly how is she benefitting?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> Where did LisaDane come up with the idea they had a sexless marriage pre affair? The way it is described, sounds like what they had is on the high end of activity in an 18 year marriage with two kids. Why does his libido Trump hers? Perhaps he should have been the one doing the accommodating or compromising.
> Perhaps she should have cheated because his drive did not match hers. Maybe look for a more compatible match, like he did.
> This puke cheated and could have killed his wife with an STD. Seems if he really is remorseful and desirous of changing, 6 months is a minimal investment. How much real change could he have undergone in that time.
> Plus, he is still in the incubation period for certain STDs. Think she should risk it already? Who knows what she will contract. This was an Ashley Madison deal. Think someone on there might just be a touch promiscuous?


They may not have technically had a true sexless marriage, but intimacy was clearly a point of contention before and by the OP's own statement there were times they would go months without having sex.

No one is arguing that he was a choir boy or that what he did was not wrong. In fact the egregiousness of it coupled with the fact that she has not really done anything about it makes me even question her true motives for remaining in limbo that much more. 

When I read her posts and look at the questions she is actually posing, it is not how to find out if he is still cheating. It is not whether she should or should not confront the OW or tell the OW's BH. She does not talk of her heartbreak or sense of betrayal. She does not question what the OW offered that she doesn't have. She doesn't talk of wondering how she could afford attorneys or how she would come out financially in a divorce or what her post-divorce lifestyle would look like. She does not fret over how this impact the children or talk of the dread and heartache of not being with the kids half the time. 

But nor is she asking how to find it in herself to forgive or how to move on or asking for any nuts and bolts advice on how to reconcile or reconnect. 

When I read her posts, sure she is pi$$ed and disgusted that this occured. But I get a sense that things are actually working kind of well for her in the current state of him living in the basement and them having a polite and companionate and coparenting yet sexless relationship. 

I'm not questioning her feeling disgusted by the thought of them being intimate, I get that. 

I question why she hasn't packed bags and left. 

I question why since they are getting along so well now and she says she wants to remain together that she is fighting off any attempts to address the issues and strive for an actual reconciliation. 

I question the dichotomy and contradiction and wonder what the motivation behind 6 months of limbo and marital purgatory is.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> Nothing, not som
> What benefit does she derive. She now has a problem with physical intimacy whereas before she enjoyed sex with her husband, just not as frequently as he desired. Now she, rightfully, feels no attraction whereas before she did and enjoyed sex with him.
> So, exactly how is she benefitting?


Read her posts. Meet her where she at and not where you or even i or any of the others may want her to be. 

Background: Intimacy and sexuality was a point of contention and discontent in their marriage prior to the affair. So saying she “enjoyed” it is not contextually accurate. 

But the actual point I want to make here is look at her actual questions and what she is actually seeking here.

She is not asking what to do about the affair or about her WH. She is not asking whether she should D or R. She is not asking for guidance on how to D or how to R and reconnect with WH. 

She’s asking is how to deal with this state of limbo. 

Answer - you fix the limbo by making a decision and taking positive steps to achieve the decision.

BUT, she’s not at that point to make a decision yet now is she.

WHY???

I can not speak for @LisaDiane, but what I think she was getting at was not to imply that the sexual status of their marriage prior to the the affair was the cause of the affair or assigning blame, but rather challenging her to ask herself why she has settled into this state of limbo so readily and why she is seemingly reluctant to break out of it and if she in fact WANTS to maintain the status quo. 

(These are my words and my interpretation of Lisa’s post, but I concur) 

So my subsequent posts are basically asking the the OP to search her feelings and do some deep critical thinking and determine what her true motives and wishes really are.

Is she actually benefiting in some way from this state of domestic cooperation and cordiality but no expectation for an intimate relationship?

Does she actually want this current lifestyle to continue but knows on an intellectual level it is not sustainable?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> They may not have technically had a true sexless marriage, but intimacy was clearly a point of contention before and by the OP's own statement there were times they would go months without having sex.
> 
> No one is arguing that he was a choir boy or that what he did was not wrong. In fact the egregiousness of it coupled with the fact that she has not really done anything about it makes me even question her true motives for remaining in limbo that much more.
> 
> ...


You are right, it was not a sexless marriage, technically or otherwise. She mentioned one drought for some months in 18 years of marriage. Got that, 18 years? I take her at her word that she was attracted to her husband and enjoyed sex with him. Contextually accurate? What basis do you have to conclude she is lyingl
?

And, of course she is pissed and disgusted. Most of us were and I' d venture it lasted a lot longer than 6 months.

Do you really believe they are " getting along so well" now? Who would be after discovering two instances of cheating a mere 6 months ago? They are cordial, that is an incredible achievement at this point.

I think some folks did not read their backstory carefully. She never said the marriage was sexless. There was one drought in 18 years and less frequency than he would have liked at times. 

Did you not see that she was providing BJs and HJs ( to the point of epicondylitis, no less)to augment PIV? How many married guys are still getting those? My guess is not a lot. Did you miss that?

And the suggestion that she is deriving a benefit? I repeat, exactly what benefit has she derived? Her once active sex life is gone. Trust is destroyed. Security is threatened. Yeah, some benefit.

Some folks, erroneously, made the jump to 8t having been a sexless marriage. Perhaps projecting what they have experienced. I would suggest it is absurd to characterize a sex life with BJs, HJs, and intercourse as sexless. Absolutely ridiculous.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> You are right, it was not a sexless marriage, technically or otherwise. She mentioned one drought for some months in 18 years of marriage. Got that, 18 years? I take her at her word that she was attracted to her husband and enjoyed sex with him. Contextually accurate? What basis do you have to conclude she is lyingl
> ?
> 
> And, of course she is pissed and disgusted. Most of us were and I' d venture it lasted a lot longer than 6 months.
> ...


I appreciate that you are strongly advocating for the OP and standing up for her.

But I am asking @husbandruinedeverything99 to soul search and ask herself if she is deriving benefit from their current lifestyle and see if that can help her make decisions based on her own well being.

I am not asking you if you believe she is benefiting from it.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I appreciate that you are strongly advocating for the OP and standing up for her.
> 
> But I am asking @husbandruinedeverything99 to soul search and ask herself if she is deriving benefit from their current lifestyle and see if that can help her make decisions based on her own well being.
> 
> I am not asking you if you believe she is benefiting from it.


Right. But, I think your expectations for a person so traumatized a mere 6 months ago are unrealistic. As I mentioned, a lot of the advice folks get off infidelity sites and books etc. is to do nothing, make no decisions for 6 months or even more.
And, you are ignoring the fact that not only has she already sought counseling as well as coming here. You make it sound like it has been years and she has done nothing.
There is no urgency here. Her husband can keep beating off as he has always done for a while. If that is too much for him, how committed is he?

Benefit? Please explain what benefit you think she could possibly be getting? You think that the guy being slightly more attentive and solicitous, nicer to the kids etc is an equal tradeoff for the type of trauma inflicted? Trust is shattered. Enjoyable sex life vanished. Probably having physical symptoms, too, if she is typical. So, what is the upside you refer to?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> Benefit? Please explain what benefit you think she could possibly be getting? You think that the guy being slightly more attentive and solicitous, nicer to the kids etc is an equal tradeoff for the type of trauma inflicted? Trust is shattered. Enjoyable sex life vanished. Probably having physical symptoms, too, if she is typical. So, what is the upside you refer to?


It doesn’t matter what I think. 

Ask her those questions. She’s the one that’s been in limbo for 6 months.


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## husbandruinedeverything99 (1 mo ago)

I can't thank everyone enough for sharing your opinions and advice - this has been so productive in helping me move forward, one way or another. I feel I need to take a mental break for a while as the last two days have been heavy on me as I haven't thought about the tough decisions I need to make soon. I want to move foreward, with your help if needed (thank you in advance), but I just need to take a breather for a minute. You don't know how helpful you have been, I can't thank you all enough!


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I can't thank everyone enough for sharing your opinions and advice - this has been so productive in helping me move forward, one way or another. I feel I need to take a mental break for a while as the last two days have been heavy on me as I haven't thought about the tough decisions I need to make soon. I want to move foreward, with your help if needed (thank you in advance), but I just need to take a breather for a minute. You don't know how helpful you have been, I can't thank you all enough!


Good luck. Get some rest. Rely on your friends and family for support.
Enjoy your " benefit" ( what an insulting, absurd notion).


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Where did LisaDane come up with the idea they had a sexless marriage pre affair? The way it is described, sounds like what they had is on the high end of activity in an 18 year marriage with two kids.


That idea came from the following response to a question.



husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> *Sometimes we have gone months without intercourse* - we must have had a long dry spell back in 2016 as a couple of months ago he forwarded me an email he sent me back then on "how to survive a sexless marriage".


They had a very long dry spell six years ago, that OP doesn't recall as she mentioned "we must have had a long dry spell".

She also said the following:


husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's been an issue for us for a long time. It's not that I'm not physically attracted to him, but his libido is way higher then mine.





husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> Often times he would just come to bed a little later then me, taking care of himself before coming to bed.





husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> So, I just don't know how intimacy would look for us.


They have been mismatched in this department, maybe for their entire marriage. Would have been less pain and problems for both of them if her husband would have handled that properly by divorcing. So it it 100% on him. He failed to deal with the issue properly, so now the end result is almost certainly going to be what should have happened at least six years ago. The only difference is OP suffers way more trauma from being betrayed.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> I can't thank everyone enough for sharing your opinions and advice - this has been so productive in helping me move forward, one way or another. I feel I need to take a mental break for a while as the last two days have been heavy on me as I haven't thought about the tough decisions I need to make soon. I want to move foreward, with your help if needed (thank you in advance), but I just need to take a breather for a minute. You don't know how helpful you have been, I can't thank you all enough!


Wishing best to you and peaceful holidays through this difficult time.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> That idea came from the following response to a question.
> 
> 
> They had a very long dry spell six years ago, that OP doesn't recall as she mentioned "we must have had a long dry spell".
> ...


Exactly, a less active sex life than he would have liked. But, no where near sexless. She was giving BJs, and HJs in addition to PIV. 
A mismatch is no reason to cheat. I would say divorcing, while honorable, is too extreme, too in light of the accommodations she was providing. But, that is up to him, of course.
This " sexless marriage " label is inaccurate and thrown about haphazardly, IMO. I would wager many marriages go through occasional dryspells like she described but would not be seen as sexless.
How folks ignoredher description of what their sex life consisted of and called it sexless is baffling. He wanted it every single day for 18 years. Maybe he, rather than her, is the outlier in terms of what is average.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

So, one dryspell six years ago, plus some months with no intercourse but orgasms from other activities is a good reason to divorce?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> It doesn’t matter what I think.
> 
> Ask her those questions. She’s the one that’s been in limbo for 6 months.


Right, a mere 6 months during which she went to counseling and has sought advice. Now, she is deriving a benefit from being unable to be intimate?
And, as mentioned, the guy was doing a woman from Ashley Madison. He has had only one STD test. Some of these STDs incubate and do not show up on testing for quite some time. Why has he not had repeated tests. That is on him. Would you put yourself at risk?


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## karmagoround (Aug 27, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's been an issue for us for a long time. It's not that I'm not physically attracted to him, but his libido is way higher then mine. He literally needs (or needed) to have an orgasm every night. I usually helped him with BJ's and helping him with HJ's (have arthritis in elbow so I can't physically do the whole thing), but we wouldn't have sex as much as he wanted. Often times he would just come to bed a little later then me, taking care of himself before coming to bed. Sometimes we have gone months without intercourse - we must have had a long dry spell back in 2016 as a couple of months ago he forwarded me an email he sent me back then on "how to survive a sexless marriage". I'm sure he did that to try to put some blame on me about his affairs
> 
> So, I just don't know how intimacy would look for us. The only thing I do know for sure is that he is going to want to do something with me, or it, every night (does he have a problem with having to have an orgasm every night?) I just don't know how things would work in the bedroom to where we both can be happy. I could "step my game up" and have sex on a regular basis as I enjoy it when I'm not tired, but the every night thing he says he "has to do" has worn on me, to the point where I almost didn't mind him taking care of things in the basement. Any advice would be great as this is a major hang-up for me in deciding what to do.


[/QUOTE] He was smothering you then. That's too much for many woman, even physically. Like the infidelity, where was his empathy for you? Is he selfish in other ways as well?. IC for him with a male therapist that can help him control his fire. 
It's good of you that you're okay with him taking care of it himself, even helping him. What many men get is an elbow in the ribs with disparaging comments. 
If he's using ED medication, he should back off of it. 
If you're seriously thinking about keeping him, then perhaps you should take steps to find out if there is more. That might help you make a decision quicker, thus find a better happiness sooner.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> Right, a mere 6 months during which she went to counseling and has sought advice. Now, she is deriving a benefit from being unable to be intimate?
> And, as mentioned, the guy was doing a woman from Ashley Madison. He has had only one STD test. Some of these STDs incubate and do not show up on testing for quite some time. Why has he not had repeated tests. That is on him. Would you put yourself at risk?


You are getting way too upset over things that people are not actually saying and talking about things that the OP was not asking about. 

No one is accusing the OP of any wrongdoing or placing any blame of his affair on her.

Nor is anyone saying that her WH was a good guy or that he should not be accountable for his actions.

But none of that is what the OP was asking about. 

Lisa, Rus, Kput and I et al are not talking about the origins of the affair or assigning any blame or judgement against anyone. 

We were discussing her limbo issue, which was the topic of her post and the issue for which she was seeking input. 

She does not need defending for she is not being attacked. 

She was offered some things to consider and some questions to examine herself in regards to her state of limbo.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> You are getting way too upset over things that people are not actually saying and talking about things that the OP was not asking about.
> 
> No one is accusing the OP of any wrongdoing or placing any blame of his affair on her.
> 
> ...


I am not really upset. Just somewhat stunned that her pre- affair marriage was characterized as sexless and that despite all she has done and is endeavoring to do, she is asked if she feels she is benefitting by her current status. It has been 6 mo this, for God's sake.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> I am not really upset. Just somewhat stunned that her pre- affair marriage was characterized as sexless and that despite all she has done and is endeavoring to do, she is asked if she feels she is benefitting by her current status. It has been 6 mo this, for God's sake.


I've read through this thread.
Tomorrow is not promised. Sh*t or get off the the pot.
In simple terms, Megaforce, it takes two. Marriage isn't good person/bad person.
It isn't cops and robbers.
Two people love and respect each other to go another round or not.
If I were OP, I wouldn't, but I'm not her.
Life is short, you don't get points for stupid.
Yep, the two includes the OP.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

harperlee said:


> I've read through this thread.
> Tomorrow is not promised. Sh*t or get off the the pot.
> In simple terms, Megaforce, it takes two. Marriage isn't good person/bad person.
> It isn't cops and robbers.
> ...


In this case, it clearly is a decent person vs someone who engaged in what many consider the most egregious form of emotional abuse. So, whether she ****s or gets off the pot requires some time to contemplate and recover.
Life is indeed short. So, it makes sense to avoid rash decisions that may cause one to squander time. You think an instant resumption of love and respect after such a betrayal is possible? Right???
And, in simple terms, it take just one of the partners to wreck a marriage, Harper. She has two kids and an 18 year investment. Not getting off the pot in a mere 6 months is just fine. It's advisable.
Folks act as if her reaction to this abuse is strictly voluntary, a variation on the oft heard( mainly from folks who have not experienced this) " get over it". Maybe with a lobotomy one could do it.
Maybe you should try it on for size and see where you would be at in terms of resuming physical intimacy in 6 months after your spouse was having sex 
with some rando from Ashley Madison.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> A mismatch is no reason to cheat.


There is no excuse for cheating, full stop. Which is what I said. He should have filed for divorce and found someone else.



Megaforce said:


> I would say divorcing, while honorable, is too extreme, too in light of the accommodations she was providing.


Fair enough. I would say life is too short to put up with six months of nothing in a marriage, and a lot of "dry spells", otherwise. Remember, wife and I went for a period where we used other means because of my physical problems. And believe me I was very concerned about my wife's tolerance for that situation would not have been surprised or blamed her if she had filed for divorce.



Megaforce said:


> I would wager many marriages go through occasional dryspells like she described but would not be seen as sexless.


Judging from all the misery posted about on TAM, there are certainly many so suppose you are correct. And I guess the scientific definition of sexless is less than 10 times in a year, so there is that. 



Megaforce said:


> He wanted it every single day for 18 years. Maybe he, rather than her, is the outlier in terms of what is average.


Maybe he is an outlier. Which would make a lot of people both male and female outliers. We usually don't get what we want in this life. But we all have the right and agency to want what we want. We just need to be ethical how we seek what we want. 

I read the average is once a week. Would never work for me or a lot of other people of both genders. Outlier or otherwise,


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> There is no excuse for cheating, full stop. Which is what I said. He should have filed for divorce and found someone else.
> 
> 
> Fair enough. I would say life is too short to put up with six months of nothing in a marriage, and a lot of "dry spells", otherwise. Remember, wife and I went for a period where we used other means because of my physical problems. And believe me I was very concerned about my wife's tolerance for that situation would not have been surprised or blamed her if she had filed for divorce.
> ...


Our vows did not include a caveat that all bets are off if there is a mismatch, or a dryspell here and there.
Best to discover/ disclose one's requirements prior to marriage.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47, if you got prostate cancer, you feel,your wife would possibly divorce you? That is tough.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> And, in simple terms, it take just one of the partners to wreck a marriage, Harper. She has two kids and an 18 year investment. Not getting off the pot in a mere 6 months is just fine. It's advisable.


We like to think so when one person in a partnership has done something egregious, but I disagree that this is true.
Anyway, I hear where you are coming from Megaforce and I do think that every person posting in this thread has much compassion for OP.
Planking is the only way to make the world stop. Life waits for no one. A gentle nudge to action is all that is being conveyed.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Rus47, if you got prostate cancer, you feel,your wife would possibly divorce you? That is tough.


I had prostate cancer. The prostate was removed. I had ED because of nerve damage for a year. My wife didn't sign up for no intimacy, so I did my best to satisfy her by other means. There are MANY men whose marriages don't survive prostate cancer treatment. There are some men who end their lives rather than live through that. And honestly, I had a period early in my walk where considered that. Being a Christian is all that stopped me. There are a lot of men on TAM who have gone through the treatment with similar worries. There are a lot of women whose cancer diagnosis and treatment ends their marriage.

Tough, but those are just the facts. I know the vows are in sickness and health. But until put to the test we don't know how things will actually go. BTW, OP's problems had nothing to do with sickness, both she and husband were healthy.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

They're not separated. They're living very much as a family, and the OP has indicated that she and her husband have been laughing, and doing everyday things together, as a family. It's the intimacy that's been put on the shelf. And that may take time.

Marriage does take two, but it only takes one to destroy the trust, not necessarily the marriage. I think she is just wondering, can I trust him, again? He has the choice to leave, as well, if this ''waiting period'' is too much for him. He made the choice to cheat. He has the choice to stay, and she has the choice to move forward or end the marriage.

But, I don't think that she lives each day as though she were holding a grudge towards her husband. Six months may seem like a long time, but all it took was one month for her husband to destroy her trust. It's not an easy decision. 😞


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Six months may seem like a long time, but all it took was one month for her husband to destroy her trust. It's not an easy decision. 😞


IMO, OP's husband is not in a holding pattern awaiting her decision. After six months I am betting he is meeting his needs with someone or elses, which is why he tells her he is willing to wait "as long as it takes". If he was fine whacking the mole in the basement he wouldn't have been taking strange women for ride in his boat six months ago and lining up MFM sessions.

The best that could happen for OP is for her husband to make the decision to file for divorce, that would take the decision to go or stay out of her hands. Unfortunately, suspect her husband is ok with things as they are because he doesn't have to pay a bunch of money, he has a roof overhead, food to eat, someone to wash his underwear, and he is getting his needs met elsewhere. He can go on indefinitely in that mode.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> IMO, OP's husband is not in a holding pattern awaiting her decision. After six months I am betting he is meeting his needs with someone or elses, which is why he tells her he is willing to wait "as long as it takes". If he was fine whacking the mole in the basement he wouldn't have been taking strange women for ride in his boat six months ago and lining up MFM sessions.
> 
> The best that could happen for OP is for her husband to make the decision to file for divorce, that would take the decision to go or stay out of her hands. Unfortunately, suspect her husband is ok with things as they are because he doesn't have to pay a bunch of money, he has a roof overhead, food to eat, someone to wash his underwear, and he is getting his needs met elsewhere. He can go on indefinitely in that mode.


Hmm, I hadn't considered all of this as a possibility. I believe that the OP said she has been able to track her husband's different places he goes, and it has all been checking out so far. 

I suppose at some point, if a betrayed spouse is willing to reconcile, he/she needs to cope with the ongoing paranoia and doubts that probably seep in. If a wayward spouse is truly remorseful and is doing most of the heavy lifting to show that remorse and not just remorse, but change...then, if you're willing to reconcile, you have to give that person a chance to prove themselves. But, intimacy would still be challenging. There's a certain amount of vulnerability in being intimate with our spouses...and that's probably the hardest part.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> The best that could happen for OP is for her husband to make the decision to file for divorce, that would take the decision to go or stay out of her hands. Unfortunately, suspect her husband is ok with things as they are because he doesn't have to pay a bunch of money, he has a roof overhead, food to eat, someone to wash his underwear, and he is getting his needs met elsewhere. He can go on indefinitely in that mode.


I suspect this is largely what is taking place with the OP as well. They have both reached a strange state of comfortable stalemate with neither taking any definitive action to either move forward with the marriage or call it quits. 

(Que in Pink Floyd’s “I I I I have become comfortably numb” )

She too is getting the benefits of marriage and in-house coparenting and no legal expenses or moving expenses of divorce, but she also has the added benefit of keeping him at arm’s length physically while he waits on her hand and foot trying to get in her good graces. 

What makes me think she is good with this arrangement deep down is she isn’t snooping into his business trying to see if he is still in contact with OW or doing anything other than whacking the mole in the basement, she isn’t doing anything to contact the OW’s BH, she isn’t further contacting attorneys or looking into divorce or moving out - 

Nor is she taking any steps towards an honest reconciliation such as MC or even talking to him about anything in regards to their relationship going forward or coming to a close. 

In short, she is good with the current status quo and does not want to rock the boat by either discussing the issues or packing up and leaving.

She has him in the house being pleasant, cooperative and compliant, he’s paying bills, keeping up appearances, taking care of the kids and domestic chores and slaying spiders, but she now no longer needs to touch his winkie and he is not bugging her for that - all is well. 

I think where she is at now is she is good with the current status quo, but is smart enough to realize that this stalemate of comfort WON’T really last forever. 

Her question to the group was not really, “should I stay or should I go?”

But rather how to reconcile her wanting to have a domestic and coparenting arrangement in the home with him while not wanting to have an intimate or physical relationship with him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> My main issue right now is I just can't stand the thought of being intimate with him at all, to the point where I don't want him anywhere near me (no hand holding, hugging, kissing, etc.) This frustrates him as he really wants to give me a hug, but knows how I feel and respects that so he doesn't ask anymore. I can't picture me ever getting to the point where I want to get close to him, so I'm basically stuck in this limbo between not wanting him out of my life yet and wanting to be close to him again. Any advice on what can I do to get out of being stuck would be great as this isn't something I want to be in for months and months -thank you!





oldshirt said:


> I think where she is at now is she is good with the current status quo, but is smart enough to realize that this stalemate of comfort WON’T really last forever.
> 
> Her question to the group was not really, “should I stay or should I go?”
> 
> But rather how to reconcile her wanting to have a domestic and coparenting arrangement in the home with him while not wanting to have an intimate or physical relationship with him.


I’m reposting this for those in the back that have lost sight of what the original question and concern is.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> The best that could happen for OP is for her husband to make the decision to file for divorce, that would take the decision to go or stay out of her hands.


So circling back to this, an earlier poster stated she seemed detached and avoidant. This is where I believe her avoidance is manifesting. She does NOT want him to throw in the towel and divorce her and does not really want that choice taken out of her hands. She’d have to kill her own big scary spiders if he leaves. 

BUT, she also can’t stand the thought of a physically intimate relationship with him and she knows on an intellectual level that intimacy will be a requirement of his in order to remain in the house long term. 

So she basically wants him as a housemate and coparent in the home, but does not want to pay his price of admission for an ongoing marriage and she knows his guilt and patience will be wearing thin at some point. 

Her dilemma is trying to reconcile wanting him as a housemate and coparent and to keep up appearances for the kids and community, but can no longer stand the thought of touching him which she knows will be his price of admission for continued marriage.

So how do we reconcile two contradictory wants vs diswants in our head? 

Answer = therapy. 

In her case my recommendation is Individual therapy and counseling first to help identify and prioritize her own wishes and values and come up with the giblets to be able to state her own wants and advocate for her own best interests.

The reason she’s been avoiding MC is because she knows if she admits that she doesn’t want to touch him, he will throw in the towel.

Continued later……


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I had prostate cancer. The prostate was removed. I had ED because of nerve damage for a year. My wife didn't sign up for no intimacy, so I did my best to satisfy her by other means. There are MANY men whose marriages don't survive prostate cancer treatment. There are some men who end their lives rather than live through that. And honestly, I had a period early in my walk where considered that. Being a Christian is all that stopped me. There are a lot of men on TAM who have gone through the treatment with similar worries. There are a lot of women whose cancer diagnosis and treatment ends their marriage.
> 
> Tough, but those are just the facts. I know the vows are in sickness and health. But until put to the test we don't know how things will actually go. BTW, OP's problems had nothing to do .with sickness, both she and husband were healthy.


Sorry to hear that. You guys must have taken the contingent vows, I guess. Mine did not include an escape clause for issues beyond my control.
If your finances tanked, your career was impacted by factors beyond your control, you get in an accident, would you be ok if your wife divorced you? How about when you get old? Warehousing you in some hell hole ok?
The reason we take vows,IMO, is that there is a realization that misfortune is bound to enter the picture at some point. These vows are considered sacred by many, me included. 
If a vow is meaningless when times are tough, what is its value.
This view sort of reminds me of the philosophy some AP' s apparently take as regards their obligation toward a BS. They do not respect the vows of others and feel no moral duty to abide by them. Some claim that without an explicit vow between them and the BS, there is absolutely nothing wrong with interloping.
They lead their lives this way. Find a wallet with money on the street: it is now theirs. They promised nothing to the owner. Get the wrong change back from a cashier, in their favor: mums the word.
See it all the time.
Anyway, hope things are back on track for you, Rus47. My best friend just had his prostate removed about a year ago, and has ED, at least for now. We are both about 70 but he tells me his wife is angry at him due to this. 
This shocks me. I cannot believe she would feel he was justified in feeling angry if the roles were reversed and she had some physical problem impacting their sex life. 40 years together and this is who she is. Sad, pathetic, actually.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> So circling back to this, an earlier poster stated she seemed detached and avoidant. This is where I believe her avoidance is manifesting. She does NOT want him to throw in the towel and divorce her and does not really want that choice taken out of her hands. She’d have to kill her own big scary spiders if he leaves.
> 
> BUT, she also can’t stand the thought of a physically intimate relationship with him and she knows on an intellectual level that intimacy will be a requirement of his in order to remain in the house long term.
> 
> ...


So many things are wrong in this analysis, IMO.
This completely ignores some important facts and assumes facts not in evidence. 
First, this is 6 months out. She has participated in several marriage counseling sessions( probably not a great idea as to many in that profession subscribe to the shared blame philosophy re affairs).
Second, she has already explicitly stated that it is her desire to get passed this. She came here seeking advice on how to do this. So, she is not avoiding addressing that. 
She has never intimidated she wants her husband as a housemate etc on a permanent basis. She explicitly expressed this.
This completely ignores the oft recited timeline for recovery. 6 months is nothing. In that short period of time she has already established reasonably cordial communication. That is huge. Many are still raging at this point, calling names, yelling etc.
This whole point of view shows impatience about recovery. It minimizes the extent of trauma(" well, it's been 6 months. My husband betrayed me and our family. He may be a human Petri dish for STDs having banged a woman from Ashley Madison on our premises. Guess my desire is long overdue to have returned. After all, about 160th of my life has elapsed since I found out.") Get real.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Hmm, I hadn't considered all of this as a possibility. I believe that the OP said she has been able to track her husband's different places he goes, and it has all been checking out so far.
> 
> I suppose at some point, if a betrayed spouse is willing to reconcile, he/she needs to cope with the ongoing paranoia and doubts that probably seep in. If a wayward spouse is truly remorseful and is doing most of the heavy lifting to show that remorse and not just remorse, but change...then, if you're willing to reconcile, you have to give that person a chance to prove themselves. But, intimacy would still be challenging. There's a certain amount of vulnerability in being intimate with our spouses...and that's probably the hardest part.


Right. And it has been 6 months. 6 months. I could do that standing on my head if I cheated and was sincere about wanting to reconcile. No one is saying the guy has to remain celibate forever. 
I think my drive is at least average. My appearance affords me opportunities to get laid as did my earnings. I could easily go 6 months or longer if I had F' d up like this guy and wanted back in the ma.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

L


harperlee said:


> We like to think so when one person in a partnership has done something egregious, but I disagree that this is true.
> Anyway, I hear where you are coming from Megaforce and I do think that every person posting in this thread has much compassion for OP.
> Planking is the only way to make the world stop. Life waits for no one. A gentle nudge to action is all that is being conveyed.


I have no idea how you cannot grasp that one person alone could destroy a relationship. I am sure we could think of dozens of acts that a spouse could do t
hat would accomplish that. 
She came here seeking advice. Is that not taking initiative. 
And, once again, this is only the 6 month mark.
Perhaps we view the passage of time ( to quote Kamala) differently. Statistically, this is about 170th of an average women's s life. 
Sorry, I do not know what planking is.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> In her case my recommendation is Individual therapy and counseling first to help identify and prioritize her own wishes and values and come up with the giblets to be able to state her own wants and advocate for her own best interests.
> 
> The reason she’s been avoiding MC is because she knows if she admits that she doesn’t want to touch him, he will throw in the towel.
> 
> Continued later……


So my take is she has been digging having him be all compliant and cooperative out of his sense of guilt and in trying to appease her and has put his sexual demands on hold while he tries to get back into her good graces. 

The reason she has been avoiding MC and any meaningful discussions about their issues and the relationship is she is afraid to rock the boat and disrupt their current status of domestic and parental collaboration. 

But she knows this can’t go on forever and that he will eventually want to have a marital sex life if they are to remain together….. and the thought of that repulses her. 

But in order to address her lack of desire for him, she will in essence have to admit to her sexual repulsion of him and she likely fears that once he actually hears her degree of repulsion out of her own mouth, he will toss in the towel, call up the OW and be out the door.

She is in kind of a catch-22. Possibly even a Catch-23 or Catch-24.

She openly admits she wants him in the home and marriage. She’s smart enough to know in order for the marriage to have any kind of duration, that she will need to address the sexual issues. 

But, admitting to and and addressing the sexual issue will probably send him packing and into someone else’s bed. 

No matter what action she takes, it will rock the boat and upset the current status quo.

Again, this is what Chump Lady calls the Turd Sandwich and it is a very bitter morsel to choke down.

My recommendation is Individual counseling/Therapy for herself. 

This is so she can work through her own priorities and determine what is in her best interests and develop the coping skills and giblets to stand up for herself and her own best interests as well as strengthen her resilience and adaptability for when things do go bad.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> IMO, OP's husband is not in a holding pattern awaiting her decision. After six months I am betting he is meeting his needs with someone or elses, which is why he tells her he is willing to wait "as long as it takes". If he was fine whacking the mole in the basement he wouldn't have been taking strange women for ride in his boat six months ago and lining up MFM sessions.
> 
> The best that could happen for OP is for her husband to make the decision to file for divorce, that would take the decision to go or stay out of her hands. Unfortunately, suspect her husband is ok with things as they are because he doesn't have to pay a bunch of money, he has a roof overhead, food to eat, someone to wash his underwear, and he is getting his needs met elsewhere. He can go on indefinitely in that mode.


Wait, you are of the opinion that the guy is still cheating? That is quite the assumption. Is it based on anything.
See, this type of thinking is exactly why I never trusted the jury system when I was trying cases. People just assume things with no basis. Essentially, they project their own proclivities.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> It feels a bit like the punishment isn’t new, it’s a continuation. Again, we can’t excuse the husband; it was his responsibility to suggest options and discuss before taking unilateral action.


Huh? Where did you come up with this? She never mentioned any punishing either before or after the cheating. What evideis there of punishment pre cheating in particular?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Megaforce said:


> Wait, you are of the opinion that the guy is still cheating? That is quite the assumption. Is it based on anything.
> See, this type of thinking is exactly why I never trusted the jury system when I was trying cases. People just assume things with no basis. *Essentially, they project their own proclivities.*


Right...just like you have been doing as well. 
That is where people come up with the advice and opinions that they share, and it's part of the benefit of asking a wide range of people what they think about something. Everyone's different life experiences gives them a different perspective that you can either incorporate into your own thinking, or disregard completely.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> So many things are wrong in this analysis, IMO.
> This completely ignores some important facts and assumes facts not in evidence.
> First, this is 6 months out. She has participated in several marriage counseling sessions( probably not a great idea as to many in that profession subscribe to the shared blame philosophy re affairs).
> Second, she has already explicitly stated that it is her desire to get passed this. She came here seeking advice on how to do this. So, she is not avoiding addressing that.
> ...


I’m sorry but you are the one not seeing the forest for the trees. 

You are trying to cheer the hero and boo the villain without facing the realities of the world or addressing the actual dilemma for which she is seeking perspective. 

No one is arguing that she has been handed a very raw deal. No one is assigning blame for his affair on her or condoning his actions.

We’re simply trying to meet her where she is currently at and help her through the dilemma for which she is currently struggling.

No one is saying she should have everything all wrapped up all nice and purdy with a bow on top at the six month mark. Some of us have expressed what we believe is how she has arrived at this limbo at this time. And we’ve offered our ideas on how to get out of that limbo. No more, no less. 

Where I do think you may be missing the mark is in your assertion that she has “participated in counseling.”

Has she really??? She showed up, but did she “participate.” 

She has openly admitted she doesn’t “feel” like talking about it. 

This is avoidance. She is avoiding and distancing herself from addressing not only past issues but also the current state of their marriage, but more importantly she is avoiding any discussions of the FUTURE of their relationship or where things go in either their marriage or in their divorce.

This is key. She has been avoiding anything that is not pleasantries and play-acting for the children that all is well.

She is not just avoiding MC due to pre-affair issues. She is avoiding discussions of the PRESENT AND FUTURE that HAVE to take place whether they ultimately try to reconcile or divorce.

Read those last few paragraphs again and again until it starts to sink in. 

No one is saying she has to have this wrapped up at six months. No one is saying she should have a clear path at six months or a definitive plan in place.

She is the one that said she was stuck in limbo and knows she has to move out of it in way way or another but is stuck between several choices that will all carry a foul tasting sandwich that she will have to choke down one way or another.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Megaforce said:


> Right. And it has been 6 months. 6 months. I could do that standing on my head if I cheated and was sincere about wanting to reconcile. No one is saying the guy has to remain celibate forever.
> I think my drive is at least average. My appearance affords me opportunities to get laid as did my earnings. I could easily go 6 months or longer if I had F' d up like this guy and wanted back in the ma.


Well, there you go. lol It's not an impossible feat! 

Who knows? Maybe he is 'abstaining,' but he brought this entirely on himself. I get that there was a lull in their sex life, but he still decided to cheat. I think if we're honest too, the first few months was probably just processing things to even be able to have normal everyday interactions with her husband. Now, she's past that, so she's settling in to wondering if intimacy is possible. It's been six months_ since discovery_.

It's not a process that can be rushed, although, I get what others here are saying, too. It's so hard, either way! 😌


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> They may not have technically had a true sexless marriage, but intimacy was clearly a point of contention before and by the OP's own statement there were times they would go months without having sex.
> 
> No one is arguing that he was a choir boy or that what he did was not wrong. In fact the egregiousness of it coupled with the fact that she has not really done anything about it makes me even question her true motives for remaining in limbo that much more.
> 
> ...


Al these things you list thatvshe has not questioned or investigated etc. are no indication that she is not interested in reconciling. Rather, they indicate that she trusts he is no longer cheating. They are irrelevant to her, perhaps because she realizes the futility of pursuing them, as many of us have also concluded in our situations.

Not talking about her heartbreak or sense of betrayal? Isn't it sort of understood that she, of course feels this. What do you think is causing her lack of desire for intimacy? All the warm fuzzy feelings she now has having been betrayed and potentially exposed to deadly or life changing STDs. Does she explicitly have to state that she is having heartbreak and feeling betrayed? Pleeeeeze. That is absurd.

I am truly amazed at what you expect a mere 6 months into this. 
And, I saw some poster, perhaps you but I am not sure, characterize her husband as " waiting on her hand and foot" or something to that effect or being overly solicitous and compliant. She merely stated he as being very considerate and a better father. Why the exaggeration?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I’m sorry but you are the one not seeing the forest for the trees.
> 
> You are trying to cheer the hero and boo the villain without facing the realities of the world or addressing the actual dilemma for which she is seeking perspective.
> 
> ...


Right, 6 months and some are already suggesting divorce or suggesting she is punishing her husband or deriving some " benefit". This completely ignores the extent of the trauma.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Well, there you go. lol It's not an impossible feat!
> 
> Who knows? Maybe he is 'abstaining,' but he brought this entirely on himself. I get that there was a lull in their sex life, but he still decided to cheat. I think if we're honest too, the first few months was probably just processing things to even be able to have normal everyday interactions with her husband. Now, she's past that, so she's settling in to wondering if intimacy is possible. It's been six months_ since discovery_.
> 
> It's not a process that can be rushed, although, I get what others here are saying, too. It's so hard, either way! 😌


Right, I would give it 7.837 months, then I would realize that I could never get passed it. Maybe 8.453 months if I am feeling optimistic.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> Right...just like you have been doing as well.
> That is where people come up with the advice and opinions that they share, and it's part of the benefit of asking a wide range of people what they think about something. Everyone's different life experiences gives them a different perspective that you can either incorporate into your own thinking, or disregard completely.


Right and your life experience, apparently, enables you to pronounce that there was a sexless marriage despite her having described nothing of the sort. 
I have no problem with the expression of a wide range of opinions. But, I do take issue with misrepresenting facts.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Megaforce said:


> Right and your life experience, apparently, enables you to pronounce that there was a sexless marriage despite her having described nothing of the sort.
> I have no problem with the expression of a wide range of opinions. But, I do take issue with misrepresenting facts.


Her marriage was sexless based on HER comment, and based on the clinical definition of sexless.

But it's not really going to be productive to discuss any of this with you....you seem to be willfully misunderstanding what I and other people have written, and deliberately not hearing what you don't want to hear. You have repeated the same lines and points multiple times. 

Also, I don't engage in conversations with people who are snarky and sarcastic to me.

I don't mind that you disagree with me, my post wasn't to YOU, it was to the OP. I am open to discuss it with her if she ever comes back.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

That is complete fabrication. You have no knowledge of the frequency with which they had sex.
If you cannot handle a simple difference of opinion, let's discontinue. I have no interest in the ad hominem style.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> Right and your life experience, apparently, enables you to pronounce that there was a sexless marriage despite her having described nothing of the sort.
> I have no problem with the expression of a wide range of opinions. But, I do take issue with misrepresenting facts.


Sometimes people say they are having a migraine even though they have not been officially diagnosed by a neurologist - but everyone knows what they are going through anyway.

Sometimes we need to use common language to describe general concepts that do not necessarily fall within a technical definition.

The clinical description of a “sexless marriage” is often used to describe where a couple has sex 10 or less times per year. 

Since we do not know exactly how many times per year they had sex, we cannot write an actual diagnosis of sexless marriage. 

But let’s use a little bit of emotional intelligence here and apply some real-world interpretation to the OP’s writing and we can clearly see that sexuality within the marriage was an ongoing point of contention.

She did not define whether they had sex 10 times in one year (clinical definition of a sexless marriage) or 11 times per year (NOT a clinical sexless marriage) 

And yes there were perfunctory BJs and HJs and such. 

But we can gather from her verbiage and tone that their sexual life was a long standing point of contention. 

She stated that there were in fact timeS (plural) that they would go monthS (also plural) without having full contact sex. 

And she also had a strong tone that she was performing the HJs and BJs out of more less duty to shut him up and she also stated relief that he was frequently spanking to porn and not bugging her about it. 

So whether they had sex 9 times or 11 times per year is purely academic. 

They may or may not have met the actual clinical definition of a sexless marriage. 

But in the context of the larger picture and troubled background, does it really matter? 

Sometimes we have to use a concise term to describe a bigger concept that may not meet the technical definition of that term.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Sometimes people say they are having a migraine even though they have not been officially diagnosed by a neurologist - but everyone knows what they are going through anyway.
> 
> Sometimes we need to use common language to describe general concepts that do not necessarily fall within a technical definition.
> 
> ...


My feeling is that it is important to be accurate is describing these things, not just casting about terms like" sexless marriage " haphazardly. 
You editorialize characterizing the other activities as perfunctory in an effort to support your position. But, you have no knowledge of the enthusiasm involved. You presume.

They had a mismatch in drives . There is no dispute. But, you exaggerate it for some reason.

You also suggested she is deriving some benefit from the current status. When she described her husband as being more considerate etc. , you, once again, exaggerated the lengths to which you assume he is going and suggested she was " digging it". 

I would suggest you employ some " emotional intelligence " here. You could not discern that she had heartbreak and felt betrayed, merely because she did not explicitly state it.

You completely ignored her having gone to counseling and having come here for advice in characterizing her as having done nothing.

Have you undergone this type of betrayal? If so, our experience and its impact is very different.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

See, there it is again, the hyperbole" whether it was 9 or 11 frequency.". This suggests that it was close to the definition of a sexless marriage when you have no clear knowledge of frequency.

In an attempt to make your points, you exaggerate or assume things.You have zero idea how close their sex life was to meeting the definition of a sexless marriage. Making things up, assuming all the things you have does not indicate to me " emotional intelligence".
Why not simply have asked her if there sex life met the definition. Misusing a term is not being concise, as you allege. Do you know she wanted him to " shut up". Perhaps she was fatigued yet still participated in activities known to be highly pleasurable. 

I feel you have been insensitive toward someone in pain, ignoring efforts that are greater than what we typically see from a traumatized person in the 6 month aftermath. You have mischaracterizes her efforts subsequent to the affair. You have questioned if she is benefitting from the trauma she has suffered. She is not years down the road, wallowing. Nor is she in the guys face,,yelling, insulting, playing private investigator( which you seem to feel means she is not invested or something.
Maybe she is like a lot of BS and wants no part of investigating . Who knows? Maybe her activities were performed perfunctorily. Who knows? 
By her husband's desires (365 days a year) maybe 299 times is a sexless marriage. Who knows?
She asked how to overcome her current feelings. That is taking action. She has restrained herself from verbally attacking him. That is huge.
She has never indicated that she will not discuss the marriage at some point. Maybe just not at six months, which is not uncommon based on my reading. In fact some of these sites and authors recommend that.
I hope she comes back and has not felt attacked by this stuff. She is in a world of hurt.
Her husband can be patient if he wants to stay married. He had a boatload fun at her expense.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> My feeling is that it is important to be accurate is describing these things, not just casting about terms like" sexless marriage " haphazardly.
> You editorialize characterizing the other activities as perfunctory in an effort to support your position. But, you have no knowledge of the enthusiasm involved. You presume.
> 
> They had a mismatch in drives . There is no dispute. But, you exaggerate it for some reason.
> ...


The OP came here, described her situation and what she was stuck on and asked for input on how to unstuck herself from her current status.

I read her story through my own lens of experience and perspective and suggested she do a deep dive into her own feelings and thoughts as to why she was remaining in this state of limbo and to explore what benefit she was getting from remaining in the current status quo vs taking vs taking other steps one way or another.

And I have suggested that she seek individual counseling/therapy to untangle her web of conflicting agendas and help her establish priorities and help her work though the things that will be most beneficial for her. 

Some other have suggested some similar things and some have suggested different things based on their perspective and experience.

So I will ask you - other than saying the rest of us are wrong, what have YOU offered the OP in regards to suggestions on how she get herself out of this state of limbo???

What have you offered to HER? What advise and suggestions have offered to her? 

You have said many times that we are wrong, so in your opinion what is the right thing that she should be doing to address her current situation and to address the actual questions she is asking?? 

Other than saying we’re wrong, what is your solution?


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> Sorry, I do not know what planking is.


It's a position if held properly makes every second feel like an eternity.



LisaDiane said:


> Right...just like you have been doing as well.
> That is where people come up with the advice and opinions that they share, and it's part of the benefit of asking a wide range of people what they think about something. Everyone's different life experiences gives them a different perspective that you can either incorporate into your own thinking, or disregard completely.


Thank you.
We all project but to be aware of this is a bit better.
I know that when I post here I am talking to myself; as are every person here, if being honest.
Every post is an expression/reflection of a person's lived experience.

The OP will make choices (not making is also a choice) and she will live this way.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> The OP came here, described her situation and what she was stuck on and asked for input on how to unstuck herself from her current status.
> 
> I read her story through my own lens of experience and perspective and suggested she do a deep dive into her own feelings and thoughts as to why she was remaining in this state of limbo and to explore what benefit she was getting from remaining in the current status quo vs taking vs taking other steps one way or another.
> 
> ...


The " rest of us" ? I do not think there is a consensus on either whether she was in a sexless marriage or whether she is " diggibg" this and deriving some" benefit". Are you exaggerating again?
I have offered her support for the proposition that she has taken steps and is very much normal to still be uninterested in intimacy and needs more time.
Unlike you, I have not intimated that her marriage was sexless and that her husband's s desire to have sex every single day needs to be accommodated for the marriage to survive or that imminent cheating is about to happen because he is dry for 6 months now.
Completely ignoring her having gone to counseling as well as seeking advice here at only 6 months out and characterizing this as inaction is wrong. 
You have never addressed the latent STD issue, assumed the frequency of sex must be in the 9 to 10 times per year range with absolutely no evidence, assumed her providing HJs and BJs to augment intercourse is done perfunctorily and to shut him up vs caring about him. Where on earth do you come up with this stuff? Emotional intelligence? More like justcassuming acwhole lot of things with zero evidence.
I find it hard to believe you have ever experienced being betrayed in a marriage. My "SOLUTION" is to give herself some time, talk to her friends and relatives and/ or an individual therapist, avoid marriage counseling for now, if not forever, and do not believe she is deriving some benefit or that she has to worry about her husband imminently cheating.
I would recommend she realize this is one very big traumatic deal and that being at her point 6 months out is very normal.
I would advise her that at this early juncture, it is absurd to believe she is deriving some benefit or secondary gain from having lost desire.
I would tell,her that her drive is not low and her husband's is extremely high and I would praise her for all she has done to try to met his needs despite her fatigue and having sustained an injury to her arm.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Even if it was a 100% sexless marriage, no sex whatsoever, why couldn't he just express to his spouse how unhappy he was with the situation, and then if nothing changed at all after 'x' amount of time, ask to separate or divorce? Why cheat?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

harperlee said:


> It's a position if held properly makes every second feel like an eternity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Projection is one thing. Making up facts, another.

If, as old shirt says, tthe clinical definition of a sexless marriage is 10 or fewer times per year, why claim she was in a sexless marriage without knowing the frequency?
Of course she will make a choice, she is in the process of getting advice in order to make it. If doing that requires 170th of her normal life expectancy, I do not view that as squandering a substantial amount of time.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Even if it was a 100% sexless marriage, no sex whatsoever, why couldn't he just express to his spouse how unhappy he was with the situation, and then if nothing changed at all after 'x' amount of time, ask to separate or divorce? Why cheat?
> I think the answer is that it was nowhere near a sexless marriage; he wanted variety; it stroked his ego; and he did not think he would get caught . Pretty much the same thing we see in most of these.
> Some people just are not fully committed to their vows. One poster even felt, despite the sickness and health provision, he was at risk of having his wife divorce him because he had prostate cancer. How' s that for commitment?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Anyway, hope things are back on track for you, Rus47. My best friend just had his prostate removed about a year ago, and has ED, at least for now. We are both about 70 but he tells me his wife is angry at him due to this.


Things have been back to normal for a long time ( 20 years ). Actually we engage in PIV at least every day. Use it or lose it. My wife hung with me through the whole thing. She was never angry at me. But she is a one in a thousand. I don't buy lottery tickets because already won the big one in the game of life. 

Your friend's experience and his wife's reaction is more the norm I believe. The problem is the doctors care about treating the cancer but don't explain the ramifications for a married couple before the treatment. They focus on saving a persons life even if it won't be worth living afterward. Your friend needs to see the guy who removed it and find our what his options are. He should have done that about a year ago, but better later than never.

Anyway, this is for sure a thread jack. DM me if you want to discuss further.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

*Deidre* said:


> Even if it was a 100% sexless marriage, no sex whatsoever, why couldn't he just express to his spouse how unhappy he was with the situation, and then if nothing changed at all after 'x' amount of time, ask to separate or divorce? Why cheat?


I'm not chasing you about the board, promise. 
Is this a rhetorical question? Are you asking this question seriously?
I'll assume that you are being antagonistic. 
People are not perfect; as much as everyone would like a brilliant hallmark ending to their relationships, alas/sigh.



Megaforce said:


> Projection is one thing. Making up facts, another.
> 
> If, as old shirt says, tthe clinical definition of a sexless marriage is 10 or fewer times per year, why claim she was in a sexless marriage without knowing the frequency?
> Of course she will make a choice, she is in the process of getting advice in order to make it. If doing that requires 170th of her normal life expectancy, I do not view that as squandering a substantial amount of time.


You are correct Megaforce. The universe has been waiting and thank everything that you are here.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

harperlee said:


> I'm not chasing you about the board, promise.


I believe you.



> Is this a rhetorical question? Are you asking this question seriously?


 Yes, I'm asking it seriously. Why don't people leave their marriages, if they're that miserable? Why cheat?



> I'll assume that you are being antagonistic.


 You assumed wrong.



> People are not perfect; as much as everyone would like a brilliant hallmark ending to their relationships, alas/sigh.


 It's not about perfection, and I don't believe in fairy tales.



Anywho, I've offered my insights and thoughts to the OP, but it is ultimately her decision to make. I hope whatever you choose OP, you do it for the right reasons that make sense for you. Just not out of fear. 😔


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Things have been back to normal for a long time ( 20 years ). Actually we engage in PIV at least every day. Use it or lose it. My wife hung with me through the whole thing. She was never angry at me. But she is a one in a thousand. I don't buy lottery tickets because already won the big one in the game of life.
> 
> Your friend's experience and his wife's reaction is more the norm I believe. The problem is the doctors care about treating the cancer but don't explain the ramifications for a married couple before the treatment. They focus on saving a persons life even if it won't be worth living afterward. Your friend needs to see the guy who removed it and find our what his options are. He should have done that about a year ago, but better later than never.
> 
> Anyway, this is for sure a thread jack. DM me if you want to discuss further.


Amazing. Most of the guys I know that had the surgery were greatly impacted. Of course many of us were pro golfers, so sex always took a backseat in terms of providing satisfaction and meaning to life 😊. Given the choice between teeing it up and sex with Elizabeth Taylor say, we would be grabbing our golf bags.
You must have had a good surgeon. Robotic?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

harperlee said:


> I'm not chasing you about the board, promise.
> Is this a rhetorical question? Are you asking this question seriously?
> I'll assume that you are being antagonistic.
> People are not perfect; as much as everyone would like a brilliant hallmark ending to their relationships, alas/sigh.
> ...


I think the universe is probably oblivious to my existence. My kids all like me, however.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Even if it was a 100% sexless marriage, no sex whatsoever, why couldn't he just express to his spouse how unhappy he was with the situation, and then if nothing changed at all after 'x' amount of time, ask to separate or divorce? Why cheat?


This is exactly what he should have done in 2016. Instead of filing for divorce he sent her an email about their having a sexless marriage. And then went out looking for strange 6 months ago ( as far as she knows). He is 100% to blame for all of it.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Amazing. Most of the guys I know that had the surgery were greatly impacted. Of course many of us were pro golfers, so sex always took a backseat in terms of providing satisfaction and meaning to life 😊. Given the choice between teeing it up and sex with Elizabeth Taylor say, we would be grabbing our golf bags.
> You must have had a good surgeon. Robotic?


Nope. Robotic was an option but it wasn't that developed two decades ago. I tried in my 20s golf but hated it.

Again this is T/J. Apologies. The OP's husband doesn't have ED ( obviously ).


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> This is exactly what he should have done in 2016. Instead of filing for divorce he sent her an email about their having a sexless marriage. And then went out looking for strange 6 months ago ( as far as she knows). He is 100% to blame for all of it.


I completely agree. And if he had come here in 2016 talking about how he wasn't sexually satisfied in his marriage, he would have been advised to divorce his wife by a great number of posters here.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> I think the universe is probably oblivious to my existence. My kids all like me, however.


The universe isn't, knucklehead. I'm here.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I completely agree. And if he had come here in 2016 talking about how he wasn't sexually satisfied in his marriage, he would have been advised to divorce his wife by a great number of posters here.


Life is way too short to put up with BS from either direction. I said it before they would both have been 6 years down the road living the best life they could make for themselves instead of making one another miserable for six years.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> The " rest of us" ? I do not think there is a consensus on either whether she was in a sexless marriage or whether she is " diggibg" this and deriving some" benefit". Are you exaggerating again?
> I have offered her support for the proposition that she has taken steps and is very much normal to still be uninterested in intimacy and needs more time.
> Unlike you, I have not intimated that her marriage was sexless and that her husband's s desire to have sex every single day needs to be accommodated for the marriage to survive or that imminent cheating is about to happen because he is dry for 6 months now.
> Completely ignoring her having gone to counseling as well as seeking advice here at only 6 months out and characterizing this as inaction is wrong.
> ...


You do realize that most of what you are telling ME of what you ‘would’ say is what I have already said to her right? 

The one thing you are correct on is I have not said anything about STIs, that is true, I haven’t talked about STIs. And that’s because she didn’t ask about STIs. If she were to ask if they should have testing, i would say yes. But that was never her question. 

You’re also hung up on the word “benefit.” 

I suggested she do some soul searching to see if she was getting some kind of benefit from their current status in order to see if that may be contributing her remaining in this state. 

Is that not what you are also suggesting above????? 

You are telling her, and I quote - “ do not believe she is deriving some kind of benefit..”

You are telling her to not believe she is getting benefit.

I recommended she soul search and figure out for herself why she believes it is of benefit to be in this situation. 

What’s going to be more effective, a stranger on the internet telling her she is getting no benefit…… or searching her own motives and feelings and beliefs and determining for herself why she is doing what she is doing and deciding for herself if it is truly in her best interests or not? 

And as I said previously, to my knowledge not one single person has indicated that she should have a clear cut plan in place at this point or even insinuated that she is falling behind any kind of schedule. Nobody is trying to rush her or demand an answer by a specific period of time. You are getting waaay too bent out of shape trying to defend her about the timeline when not a single person has criticized her about it. 

Her dilemma and the things she’s asked about is about her feeling of being in limbo and that is what many here are addressing. 

In regards to their pre-affair sexlife, it may not have ever been a technically sexless marriage in the official sense of the term - but she stated it was an ongoing point of contention between them and one of their main sources of contain, so it is a fair topic for discussion and is relevant whether term was technically proper or not. 

And as I have said numerous times, no one has pointed a finger at her saying that she is at all to blame for his affair and no one is saying that she should be screwing him every night. You are making accusations of things that no one has ever said. 

She herself has acknowledged that if they are to remain together long term, that sexuality is a significant issue that they will need to address. 

And i have in very clear and plain English recommended that she seek individual counseling/therapy to sort all these things out within herself before trying any kind of MC or anything. 

So there really isn’t a whole lot that you say you would tell her that I and a number of others have not already said. You say I am wrong but yet you’d actually say much the similar 🤔 

Now where YOU are exaggerating is in your assertion that her arm was injured by giving him a hand. Not only is that plain silly, but what she said was she has arthritis in her elbow. 

So if your going to accuse people of hyperbole and exaggeration, at least don’t do it so glaringly yourself.


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## karmagoround (Aug 27, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> In regards to their pre-affair sexlife, it may not have ever been a technically sexless marriage lf.


Read more and rant less and you would read the OP states her H needed a release every day, which was a bit too much for her.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

......................


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## melissaberard49 (3 mo ago)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's been 6 months since I found about my husband of 18 year's affair and I'm not sure what to do. Right after dday I so wanted to divorce him and I met with an attorny. But, for the sake of our kids (14 & 11) I haven't followed through and want to try to see if our marriage can be saved. Since dday he has been living in the guest bedroom & the kids aren't aware anything is wrong. He is remorseful and is doing everything a wayward spouse should be doing - we talk kindly to each other but I am reluctant to talk about the marriage. He often asks me if I'd like to talk but I just don't "feel it" right now so we haven't talked about the marriage in some time. We did a few marriage counseling appointments a few months back but they didn't do much for me so we haven't had any counseling since then. My main issue right now is I just can't stand the thought of being intimate with him at all, to the point where I don't want him anywhere near me (no hand holding, hugging, kissing, etc.) This frustrates him as he really wants to give me a hug, but knows how I feel and respects that so he doesn't ask anymore. I can't picture me ever getting to the point where I want to get close to him, so I'm basically stuck in this limbo between not wanting him out of my life yet and wanting to be close to him again. Any advice on what can I do to get out of being stuck would be great as this isn't something I want to be in for months and months -thank you!


 In 2010 I was right where you are now! We have 4 children and at the time my youngest was 12. Devastated is an understatement! I had no idea and some of that is b/c I was checked out. I wasn't paying attention b/c looking back there were signs I should have seen. You are going to have to decide...the ball is in your court. I know you don't want intimacy right now but if you decide to stay your gonna have to come to terms with it. I was a freakin basket case for over a year, it's all I wanted to talk about with him. He answered everything I asked and I asked over and over!!! I was a chain smoking wreck! We went to a marriage counselor when I told him I couldn't do this. Cost a fortune and really didn't get to the root of anything. There was an issue I had brought up to me by a friend that told me people don't cheat in happy marriages. Ours wasn't good. Between work and 4 kids, a house, small business, I was forced to look at my role. NOOO...I'm not saying this is your fault, what I'm saying is look at your husband as a partner...I decided to give my marriage a second chance. We did a lot of talking, a lot of crying, I rode my husband with the non-stop questions for over a year and he gave me everything I asked for. Obviously your husband wants to try....do you have any love for him anymore? Is his real nature to be deceitful? This was one of the hardest things I've ever done and I did it alone! I didn't tell anyone what was going on in case I decided to stay...I didn't want to hear the ****! I know it's a lot but what you wrote struck such a chord...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

karmagoround said:


> Read more and rant less and you would read the OP states her H needed a release every day, which was a bit too much for her.


Yeah we all got that. 

Doesn’t change anything I’ve said.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

melissaberard49 said:


> I decided to give my marriage a second chance


For benefit of @husbandruinedeverything99, how long after you found out did you decide to try to reconcile? And how long after that did it take before you could stand to be intimate with him? How long before you trusted him? Do you still have triggers that flash you back to day zero?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> This is exactly what he should have done in 2016. Instead of filing for divorce he sent her an email about their having a sexless marriage. And then went out looking for strange 6 months ago ( as far as she knows). He is 100% to blame for all of it.


Or discussed it vs sending an email.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> You do realize that most of what you are telling ME of what you ‘would’ say is what I have already said to her right?
> 
> The one thing you are correct on is I have not said anything about STIs, that is true, I haven’t talked about STIs. And that’s because she didn’t ask about STIs. If she were to ask if they should have testing, i would say yes. But that was never her question.
> 
> ...


You are really grasping at straws. You cannot admit ther÷ is a distinction between calling it a sexless marriage and there having been a frequency issue. You think using that term, sexless marriage vs describing it accurately, was done because it is more " concise". Using the wrong term is anything but concise.
And, I wonder if you read all the comments. One poster suggested she " **** or get off the pot". Another suggested delaying intimacy has probably caused her husband to continue cheating. These are of the top of my head.
Again, she said she was attracted to her husband, and they had a fair amount of sexual activity. You 8gnored this and claimed she had a sexless marriage. You ignored the steps she has already taken. You ignored how fa r out she is, 6 months. 
" Benefit" yeah, okay. Why don't you tell us what potential benefit you perceive her getting from this.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah we all got that.
> 
> Doesn’t change anything I’ve said.


Doesn't t change your labeling it a sexless marriage or implying that they had sex 9 to 11 times a year? You are too entrenched in trying to be right.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> One poster suggested she " **** or get off the pot".


That would be me, killer. How much sleep have you had in the past 24 hrs.? Serious question.


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## karmagoround (Aug 27, 2021)

For OP, my experience was different in that I didn't lose the physical desire, but from the affair on, we lost the a close intimacy in our affection that helped keep us strong. 
We're all seeking that special connection with someone. For some, it's the most precious pearl in life. There is a reason that's why they call it making love, for the blessed that can make it come true. 
Your psyche might be trying to tell you something. You might be picking up more signals than just what you've seen and heard. I can remember being in denial about so many things. Later to trickle truth myself having to face obvious conclusions. It seems that your eyes have been opened.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> You are really grasping at straws. You cannot admit ther÷ is a distinction between calling it a sexless marriage and there having been a frequency issue. You think using that term, sexless marriage vs describing it accurately, was done because it is more " concise". Using the wrong term is anything but concise.
> And, I wonder if you read all the comments. One poster suggested she " **** or get off the pot". Another suggested delaying intimacy has probably caused her husband to continue cheating. These are of the top of my head.
> Again, she said she was attracted to her husband, and they had a fair amount of sexual activity. You 8gnored this and claimed she had a sexless marriage. You ignored the steps she has already taken. You ignored how fa r out she is, 6 months.
> " Benefit" yeah, okay. Why don't you tell us what potential benefit you perceive her getting from this.





Megaforce said:


> Doesn't t change your labeling it a sexless marriage or implying that they had sex 9 to 11 times a year? You are too entrenched in trying to be right.


Dude! Go back and read through all of my posts. 

I have not only never said they had a sexless marriage but at no point have I even said ANYTHING about how much sex they were or were not having.

I have said that per her own report, that sexuality has been a point of contention in their marriage. She herself said that sex had been an issue between them.

That means that whether they had sex once in 18 years or whether they did 5 times a day , it was an issue between them regardless of the exact number. 

Again, contextually it was an an issue and one of the significant points of contention in their marriage.

I did not at any time claim they had a sexless marriage. 

Another poster used that term generically to indicate that they had underlying issues sexually and when you jumped on that person, I said that contextually it was a fair reference even though it may not have been technically accurate per strict clinical definition.

Let it go. No one is accusing her of anything. No one is accusing her of placing him into a sexual wasteland or saying she was to blame for his affair. 

We are simply taking her at her word that this has been a point of contention regardless of the actual number of times they have had sexual contact.


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## melissaberard49 (3 mo ago)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's been 6 months since I found about my husband of 18 year's affair and I'm not sure what to do. Right after dday I so wanted to divorce him and I met with an attorny. But, for the sake of our kids (14 & 11) I haven't followed through and want to try to see if our marriage can be saved. Since dday he has been living in the guest bedroom & the kids aren't aware anything is wrong. He is remorseful and is doing everything a wayward spouse should be doing - we talk kindly to each other but I am reluctant to talk about the marriage. He often asks me if I'd like to talk but I just don't "feel it" right now so we haven't talked about the marriage in some time. We did a few marriage counseling appointments a few months back but they didn't do much for me so we haven't had any counseling since then.
> 
> My main issue right now is I just can't stand the thought of being intimate with him at all, to the point where I don't want him anywhere near me (no hand holding, hugging, kissing, etc.) This frustrates him as he really wants to give me a hug, but knows how I feel and respects that so he doesn't ask anymore. I can't picture me ever getting to the point where I want to get close to him, so I'm basically stuck in this limbo between not wanting him out of my life yet and wanting to be close to him again. Any advice on what can I do to get out of being stuck would be great as this isn't something I want to be in for months and months -thank you!





Rus47 said:


> For benefit of @husbandruinedeverything99, how long after you found out did you decide to try to reconcile? And how long after that did it take before you could stand to be intimate with him? How long before you trusted him? Do you still have triggers that flash you back to day zero?


We are still together and honestly, over time it did get better. At this point I don't throw it in his face (wguessing as wellid


Rus47 said:


> For benefit of @husbandruinedeverything99, how long after you found out did you decide to try to reconcile? And how long after that did it take before you could stand to be intimate with him? How long before you trusted him? Do you still have triggers that flash you back to day zero?


It probably took a year....And it was hard! But if he was willing to give me what I needed...ANSWER my questions (I was relentless), don't smother me, support me, then I just went through it. Trust me I had a lot of 2 nd guessing. We are still together, still not perfect, but we made a commitment and it's not always good. At this point time and understanding is all that's going to help. When you realize he's not going anywhere it will help and time and correct actions are the only way to get there.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

harperlee said:


> That would be me, killer. How much sleep have you had in the past 24 hrs.? Serious question.


I am on seasonal layoff. So, pretty rested. Weather is bad today, so I am a little too unbusy. Putting off cleaning the bathroom, my dear.


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## SilverSiren (Nov 8, 2011)

Apologies, I am not taking the time to read this entire thread. Book recommendation for betrayed and conflicted/confused spouse here: 

"Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft.

Also read his "Daily Wisdom for Why Does He Do That?" This book has daily bite-sized nuggets of wisdom and it is probably the easier read.

All the books by Lundy Bancroft are great. He specializes in partner abuse- he's worked extensively with thousands of abusers and he knows their games. Expect his books to blow your mind with insight. He boils down all the controlling, manipulation, selfish entitled partner's antics (including cheating of course) and leaves the injured spouse with gold nuggets of clarity and empowerment. He also wrote an entire book on how to decide whether or not to stay in a relationship. 

Seriously, read Lundy Bancroft. 

Good luck!


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's been 6 months since I found about my husband of 18 year's affair and I'm not sure what to do. Right after dday I so wanted to divorce him and I met with an attorny. But, for the sake of our kids (14 & 11) I haven't followed through and want to try to see if our marriage can be saved. Since dday he has been living in the guest bedroom & the kids aren't aware anything is wrong. He is remorseful and is doing everything a wayward spouse should be doing - we talk kindly to each other but I am reluctant to talk about the marriage. He often asks me if I'd like to talk but I just don't "feel it" right now so we haven't talked about the marriage in some time. We did a few marriage counseling appointments a few months back but they didn't do much for me so we haven't had any counseling since then.
> 
> My main issue right now is I just can't stand the thought of being intimate with him at all, to the point where I don't want him anywhere near me (no hand holding, hugging, kissing, etc.) This frustrates him as he really wants to give me a hug, but knows how I feel and respects that so he doesn't ask anymore. I can't picture me ever getting to the point where I want to get close to him, so I'm basically stuck in this limbo between not wanting him out of my life yet and wanting to be close to him again. Any advice on what can I do to get out of being stuck would be great as this isn't something I want to be in for months and months -thank you!


I certainly understand the loss of desire for a cheating spouse, and I know I would never have that desire for them again, nor would I have any trust whatsoever and would not try that again either. When I stayed for the children that didn’t work either. When people cheat I think they are wanting out of their marriage. If they wanted to stay in the marriage, why harm the marriage? Adultery does not bless a marriage, contrary to popular belief.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

husbandruinedeverything99 said:


> It's been 6 months since I found about my husband of 18 year's affair and I'm not sure what to do. Right after dday I so wanted to divorce him and I met with an attorny. But, for the sake of our kids (14 & 11) I haven't followed through and want to try to see if our marriage can be saved. Since dday he has been living in the guest bedroom & the kids aren't aware anything is wrong. He is remorseful and is doing everything a wayward spouse should be doing - we talk kindly to each other but I am reluctant to talk about the marriage. He often asks me if I'd like to talk but I just don't "feel it" right now so we haven't talked about the marriage in some time. We did a few marriage counseling appointments a few months back but they didn't do much for me so we haven't had any counseling since then.
> 
> My main issue right now is I just can't stand the thought of being intimate with him at all, to the point where I don't want him anywhere near me (no hand holding, hugging, kissing, etc.) This frustrates him as he really wants to give me a hug, but knows how I feel and respects that so he doesn't ask anymore. I can't picture me ever getting to the point where I want to get close to him, so I'm basically stuck in this limbo between not wanting him out of my life yet and wanting to be close to him again. Any advice on what can I do to get out of being stuck would be great as this isn't something I want to be in for months and months -thank you!


I have been in the exact same position as you. Unfortunately I just could not be intimate with him after his affair. We tried counselling etc but eventually divorced.
I’ve never been happier tbh just me and my dog.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

SilverSiren said:


> Apologies, I am not taking the time to read this entire thread. Book recommendation for betrayed and conflicted/confused spouse here:
> 
> "Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft.
> 
> ...


For the male victims, just reverse the pronouns.


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