# Porn and Christianity



## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

Ok..The two words probably should never be put in the same sentence..at least not with the way I was raised..in a very conservative..christian home..
but still..I find myself more horny than most people out there..always been tempted to look at porn but have felt guilty because of christian beliefs..
Got married...now feel guilty if I think of watching porn because of both, our marriage and christian beliefs..
But..a part of me says..if a couple is Married..and if a couple watches Porn TOGETHER and it is ok with both husband and wife...would it still be wrong under christian beliefs?
This is where hypocritism comes in..
I guess I should ask then, is it ok to be a pornstar if you have christian beliefs?
The answer most people would give is No..its not ok..we are supposed to be pure..sex should stay within the confines of a marriage, etc. etc..

I probably just answered my own question..

What say you fellow talkaboutmarriage.com members?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

You had to open that can of worms didn't you. LOL!! I became a christian 12 years ago and took all these women's bible studies where they say porn is wrong in fact they say even a soap opera is soft porn. And don't even think about looking at a Victoria's secret catalog...

Just in the past few weeks of being here on TAM I've changed my opinion. I no longer have a problem with porn as long as it enhances my marriage and doesn't become addictive. The other night my H watched some adult tv on HBO but came to bed to ME. That I'm okay with but getting himself off while watching porn no (remember he's the low drive one). Not unless I'm watching that is. 

In fact I think I might check one out tonight after the kids go to bed (I've never seen one) since my H is out of town. He says he's not interested in porn but I think he's lying.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

haha, yup had to open that can of worms..
Me and My wife tried watching porn once..after about 30 minutes we shut it off..
Everytime I looked at her she had this disgusted look on her face..like she was looking at a pile of poop, and vomit mixed together...and she got teary eyed and said..-why are you so excited to see this?-
I wasnt that excited at all..and didnt have an erection once..it honestly felt like watching a movie with my mom that has alot of sex in it...you just cant enjoy it..
My wife told me..-that is so disgusting..how can somebody be a pornstar? I am NEVER gonna do that...that is SOOO gross-

And we didnt have sex for a few days after...


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Pornography comes from a greek work meaning writings about harlots. The greek term used in scripture often translated "fornication" is porneia which is a broad category including all forms of immoral and sexual acts. It is pre-marital sex and adultery; it is abnormal sex, all kinds of sexual vice.

With that being said, don't feel bad because this is something that I've had to recently come to grips with myself. The passage of scripture that made it clear to me that pornography was more than just lust, but adultery in the heart, was Matthew 5:27-28 (NASB) 
{27} "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery '; 
{28} but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 

It may not actually be a physical act but God is really more concerned about the condition of your heart. The physical act as well as the mental act are both equally wrong in the eyes of God and they are both adultery.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Christian or not, I don't believe porn is healthy for any body, not the women in the porn nor women or men who watch and consume it.

It does nothing but set ridiculous expectations, and studies show it's highly addictive, makes people WORSE in bed and changes the way men view women.

I do believe it's highly hypocritical for christians to view porn, and any body who claims to care about the well being of women.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

marksaysay said:


> Pornography comes from a greek work meaning writings about harlots. The greek term used in scripture often translated "fornication" is porneia which is a broad category including all forms of immoral and sexual acts. It is pre-marital sex and adultery; it is abnormal sex, all kinds of sexual vice.
> 
> With that being said, don't feel bad because this is something that I've had to recently come to grips with myself. The passage of scripture that made it clear to me that pornography was more than just lust, but adultery in the heart, was Matthew 5:27-28 (NASB)
> {27} "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery ';
> ...



I always wonder if the same applies if both husband and wife agree on it..


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> {28} but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


But I can assure you my H is NOT lusting after the woman on tv when he watches a sex scene on a movie not even porn. It's me he lusts after not her. God knows my heart and knows I lust after no one but my H and he feels the same way about me. I no longer fear porn.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

marriedguy said:


> I always wonder if the same applies if both husband and wife agree on it..


The answer to your question would be yes. Some type of sexual arousal is usually the intended result of watching porn or reading erotic literature. That arousal is the result of both parties allowing their minds to be influenced by images or words that are based on another person outside of the marital relationship.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

This is one of the many reasons I no longer attend church or identify myself with any religion. I can't reconcile my own beliefs with those of the church at this point. 

I have....issues. With Christianity. And there goes my blood pressure. Must.Stop.Reading.This.Thread.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

marriedguy said:


> I always wonder if the same applies if both husband and wife agree on it..


I think it matters. I'd be upset if I knew my H did it on a regular basis without my blessing. I'm not naive to think he hasn't watched some skinemax when I wasn't there (I've caught him a time or two) but overall I think he has tried to respect my wishes. Or maybe he was just very discreet about it. Either way I was okay not knowing.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

Your answers make sense...maybe its the cold..hard..truth...I always wondered what the word fornification means..

Which leads me to another question..I have always wondered this..I need to be pretty graphics to explain it though..

I have always wondered if it is wrong to...

-Have doggy style sex
-Oral Sex
-Anal Sex
-Boob Penetration sex
-Doing facials
-doing 69
-Using Sex toys
-etc
-etc
-etc

I mean, if those things are all fornification...that is a little conservative..at least compared to what Im used to..
I always think that if husband and wife both agree on it..as long as its between them two that there is nothing wrong with it...the way you(or the bible) explain it..it sounds like anything but missionary underneith a blanket is a sin..
Some people view anal sex as a sin..but what if a wife wants to receive sex this way from her husband, because she knows how much he would like her this way sometimes..is that not showing love? Is that impure by the husband to do it that way?

Wow..what a turn off it is to talk about sex in such a conservative way...

Or does god want us to have fun in our marriage beds...enjoying each other in infinate ways just like we do in other parts of our marriage?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MGirl said:


> This is one of the many reasons I no longer attend church or identify myself with any religion. I can't reconcile my own beliefs with those of the church at this point.
> 
> I have....issues. With Christianity. And there goes my blood pressure. Must.Stop.Reading.This.Thread.


Was thinking the same thing. I quit going to church over a year ago when I saw the damage that whole submissive crap was doing to my marriage. I still believe in God but think people read too much into the bible. Don't even get me started on this subject or my blood pressure will rise too....


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

marriedguy said:


> Wow..what a turn off it is to talk about sex in such a conservative way...


Tell me about it. I have a friend who won't do bj's because in the bible it says you aren't supposed to "spill the seed" or something like that. She's catholic so they don't believe in birth control either. Guess I'm in trouble because my H is snipped.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

marriedguy said:


> Your answers make sense...maybe its the cold..hard..truth...I always wondered what the word fornification means..
> 
> Which leads me to another question..I have always wondered this..I need to be pretty graphics to explain it though..
> 
> ...


Those things you listed above are not "fornication" or "adultery". They are things that involve nothing more than you and your wife. They don't involve you reading literature or watching other people have sex. They are just ways you two have decided to spice up the sex between the 2 of you. As long as it just involves the two of you, it's not wrong. Stories and videos involve other people.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

magnoliagal said:


> Was thinking the same thing. I quit going to church over a year ago when I saw the damage that whole submissive crap was doing to my marriage. I still believe in God but think people read too much into the bible. Don't even get me started on this subject or my blood pressure will rise too....


Sometimes I start thinking this way too..but then I remember it saying that there will be many people oppose to the bible..many people will mock it..laugh at you..true believers will be in the minority..

None of those are direct quotes from the bible..but it says that in one way or another...
This is when I continue to believe in it..but man its a struggle...feels like we just arent supposed to enjoy life at all..but instead live completely sheltered from any danger or lust..excitement..
Some religions in that believe in christianity do this really well..they shut themselves off from the world..others will live in normal cities..do normal work..but preach the bible..making them look like hypocrites...
Our marriage would be even more conservative, boring than it already is in the bed if we were to shut us off completely from temptation and lust..

I always wonder..is there sex in heaven? Can we at least enjoy it there?

I guess is there will be no Marriages..Hormones..or sex in Heaven..


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

marksaysay said:


> Those things you listed above are not "fornication" or "adultery". They are things that involve nothing more than you and your wife. They don't involve you reading literature or watching other people have sex. They are just ways you two have decided to spice up the sex between the 2 of you. As long as it just involves the two of you, it's not wrong. Stories and videos involve other people.


I hope your right..cuz if not I might be going to hell..

Me and My wife havent enjoyed watching porn together yet..like Ive said..we have tried but she was disgusted by it..however she was interested in viewing a form of porn directed more towards women..
Still makes me wonder..can porn not be treated just like a sex toy? To spice things up?
I mean, most of us dont get turned on staring at a sex toy..but yet we get turned on by watching two people have sex...so I understand the difference..

I know couples who are watching porn together and theyre marriage and sex in their marriage has never been better..

Like I said..I think Im fighting it too hard..maybe I should just let it go and accept..not sure if I ever will though..


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## Tempted6119 (Apr 29, 2011)

marriedguy said:


> Sometimes I start thinking this way too..but then I remember it saying that there will be many people oppose to the bible..many people will mock it..laugh at you..true believers will be in the minority..
> 
> None of those are direct quotes from the bible..but it says that in one way or another...
> This is when I continue to believe in it..but man its a struggle...feels like we just arent supposed to enjoy life at all..but instead live completely sheltered from any danger or lust..excitement..


 I think when God forbids something it is not to keep us from enjoying it but to keep us from the consequences of those things which eventually hurt us. It may seem like fun momentarily, but in the end I think it hurts rather than helps.

[/QUOTE]
I always wonder..is there sex in heaven? Can we at least enjoy it there?
[/QUOTE]
This made me laugh. I don't know if that was your intent but it did make me laugh. Which is a good thing. I needed that.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Tell me about it. I have a friend who won't do bj's because in the bible it says you aren't supposed to "spill the seed" or something like that. She's catholic so they don't believe in birth control either. Guess I'm in trouble because my H is snipped.


The "spill the seed" reference needs to be considered in the proper context. (Genesis 38:9,1). According to the levirate law it was the duty of the “levir,” the husband’s brother, to provide his widowed sister-in-law with an heir. The custom was in vogue also among non-Israelites. Onan refused to comply with its demands therefore he had sex with his sister-in-law but "spilled his seed" on the ground because he knew the child would not be considered his child, but his dead brother's.

It was not wrong to "spill the seed" in general terms. It was wrong to "spill the seed" and avoid the obligations that were dictated by the law AT THAT TIME. This is no longer an acceptable practice, nor is it an obligation that a brother-in-law is supposed to fulfill.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

marriedguy said:


> I always think that if husband and wife both agree on it..as long as its between them two that there is nothing wrong with it...


:iagree: 

This is what I believe. Unfortunately, the church does not agree and I'm tired of being made to believe I am sinner for believing so. Maybe my skin just isn't thick enough at this point to brush it off and not be bothered. I hope someday I'll be able to let it go. Right now I'm still trying to fight the brainwash effect out of my system and it's making me very angry.

The problem is, I wasn't just a person who sat in church each week. I was *actively* involved. I served as the Children's Ministry leader for several years and then my pastor pushed me into the position of Youth Pastor for awhile as well. I preached to the church congregation several times. This stuff is *engrained* in me. I was never given a choice to believe anything else. I don't even think I knew it was a possibility to believe anything else. I never questioned the church's staunch positions on sex. I studied it, taught it, preached it. And all the while, I hated myself for wanting it. I literally felt like I should repent every time I kissed my boyfriend(now husband). The guilt was overwhelming. I couldn't breathe. So I shut myself down to sex emotionally because I couldn't deal with the guilt. I started having self-hate issues because I could never be good enough, I couldn't shut down my sexuality completely like I was taught to. 

So yeah. I have issues. I may appear to have a good sex life, but it's a struggle every single day. I feel guilt on a daily basis. I'm still emotionally shut down. I have setbacks, I have breakthroughs. But mostly, I hold a lot of resentment and anger at being made of believe that my hormones were actually Satan, that desire is sin, and that anything sexual related is black and white.

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic. I just needed to vent. This seemed to be an appropriate thread to do so in.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

[/QUOTE]
I always wonder..is there sex in heaven? Can we at least enjoy it there?

This made me laugh. I don't know if that was your intent but it did make me laugh. Which is a good thing. I needed that.[/QUOTE]

Yeah it was kinda meant to be a sarcastic joke..but kinda serious too..I have wondered that many times...think in one religion theyre taught that in heaven they will be greeted with 40 virgins or something...definitley a nice incentive to do your work here on earth..haha, how earthly, and worldly I think...

But in all seriousness I think Heaven will have everything we need and we wont crave what we crave here...but I have wondered how beautiful it would be to be surrounded by beautiful women everywhere who want sex all the time..its my earthly hormones that make me feel like this I guess

MGirl..
I dont mind the venting..thats what I do here all the time..I love my wife and our marriage is pretty good..but I vent like crazy because I gotta let crap out...if I dont..my wife gets it, and that makes it worse..

It always seems like the Pastors or Youth Leaders have it all figured out..and that theyre never tempted sexually..but really I think they do a great job of sugar coating anything they say...they sound too perfect..I know someone who is very involved in the church..youth leader and all..young guy..seems like he has never lusted for a woman..seems like alot of them want to live just like Jesus did (like we are supposed to) and Jesus wasnt married..didnt feel lust towards women (not that we know of at least)...but in the end everybody gets tempted..has hormones...some of us act on it some of us dont..either way we feel guilty about it...its why so many turn on Christianity..they cant take it anymore..
I am not sure how conservative we need to be about it.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

marriedguy said:


> It always seems like the Pastors or Youth Leaders have it all figured out..and that theyre never tempted sexually..but really I think they do a great job of sugar coating anything they say...they sound too perfect..I know someone who is very involved in the church..youth leader and all..young guy..seems like he has never lusted for a woman..seems like alot of them want to live just like Jesus did (like we are supposed to) and Jesus wasnt married..didnt feel lust towards women (not that we know of at least)...but in the end everybody gets tempted..has hormones...some of us act on it some of us dont..either way we feel guilty about it...its why so many turn on Christianity..they cant take it anymore..
> I am not sure how conservative we need to be about it.


I'm not so sure that they have it all together. It's just that they are obligated to teach what the bible says. I will have you know that I am a minister who has battled and toiled with a pornography addiction. It's not that I'm perfect or that I've ever claimed to be. It's that I'm human just like everyone else. It is not uncommon for ministers and pastors to fall victim to the same things that the average laymember is victimized by. They are still just flesh and blood and descendents of Adam just like everyone else.

As I continue what seems to be an ongoing biblical discussion, in scripture, the same Greek word is translated into English as two different words, temptation and test, and their use depends on the context. 

Temptations are what Satan puts in front of man to steer him away from God and his standards of living. Tests are what God uses to see how committed you are to staying true to his word and in trusting him. 

The interesting thing specifically about the temptations is that, while God doesn't tempt us, he does PERMIT the devil to do so with specific stipulations on what is allowed. Read the Job 1:6 thru 2:7 and you'll understand what I mean.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't want to be surrounded 40 virginal women nor do I care to be surrounded by beautiful. I think it is funny that kind of haven seems like a male porn sex fantasy. What is haven like for women in this theory. I bet there is no description of haven that would appeal to woman. I am repulsed by organized religion because all of the law and beliefs are geared towards the earthy powerful and their earthly pursuits. .

I think what goes on in the bedroom between two people is up to them. I dont think religion belongs in the bedroom as long as there is mutual respect, mutual pleasure, no 3rd parties. I have to add that I don't think that women should be expected to do anal for their husbands enjoyment as one poster said. there are so many sex acts that are not primarily geared towards a woman's pleasure that it is foolhardy to go with an attitude that women should have to pleasure men. The sex would be all about men which I suspect happens in some marriages and may be one reason a woman may lose interest. 

- that list of MG -Have
doggy style sex - many women can't orgasm and pain is more frequently a problem
-Oral Sex - 70 % of women are theoretically able to cum from oral sex /clitoral stimulation from a skillful lover 
-Anal Sex - painful, can cause damage to anus, women do not orgasm unless accompanied by clitoral stimulation 
-Boob Penetration sex - there are no holes in the boobs I doubt if a wen could get an orgasm anyway
-Doing facials - useless degrading and stupid act from porn, like someone peeing on your face
-doing 69 - I can't concentrate on anything with this rather have twice the funand do each separately. 
-using Sex toys I'd would not use a toy to get off when I having sex with my husband I want to feel him touch me - toys are when he is not around. I would not ask him to use a fake vagina while I sit and watch so I am certain he understands. 

Out of the 7 things listed, 4 rarely give a woman an orgasm and 2 will with a skilled lover and 1 is very reliable but does not need the presence of man . All give the man pleasure. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that perhaps the spike in women losing interest in sex is correlated with the increased demands for sex acts that a man expects his wife to do for him which is exactly what one poster said. This is a boneheaded approach to an intimate act that involves hopefully love and concern for mutual pleasure. If woman are always required to do for the man would that not get tiresome? A man with a list in his head does not a good lover make. 

I was inhibited when I first got married due to religion. I matured slowly with my husbands gentle guidance. He never got angry impatient, coercive, entitled and if he had a list of act he expected me to perform I never knew it. 

He made it out to be that I was special and what ever we did was about me and him not a list of sex acts he was expecting me to perform. I think that's one sucessful way to coax an inhibited woman out of her shell. Presenting her with a list makes it seem as if you were waiting aroung for a set of hole to stick your jimmie into. It would be desaterous to let the idea that she is a convient article for a man's pleasure she will shut up shop for sure. 
-
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Oh man. I could hold my tongue... NOT. The problem is not with the porn...


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## daison (Mar 3, 2011)

There is a forum on the website The Marriage Bed that talks about ALL these issues - including submission and headship. It is VERY open and discusses all things in a strictly biblical sense and I think it would answer a lot of peoples questions/issues regarding what the bible says about these topics.

I don't personally feel that porn belongs in any marriage/relationship whatsoever. But sex with your partner alone, provided both parties agree to the acts involved, could be as kinky as you like.

And submission is not just wife to husband...there's a "vice versa" involved  Equal importance, different roles.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> I think what goes on in the bedroom between two people is up to them. I dont think religion belongs in the bedroom as long as there is mutual respect, mutual pleasure, *no 3rd parties.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Killjoy.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mom you are a naughty lady.... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Mom you are a naughty lady....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am feeling all kinds of troublesome today.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Why
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

It's the weekend. It is fun. The sun is shining. Life is grand.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I guess it depends on what you believe. Some people say that looking at other naked people, is a sin in itself, so if you do not believe that, then I guess you do whatever you feel works best for you and your spouse. 

People who love porn, will usually justify it anyway they can to make it ok in their minds, to watch it christian or not.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> Killjoy.


I'm with you if it wasn't for third parties (this forum for example) I might not be so happy today. Gotten a lot of great ideas here and so I'm not looking at pictures I sure do have some visuals in my head.

I also agree if someone wants to look at porn they will justify it (myself included). It's human nature.


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## roymcavoy (Apr 15, 2011)

Thank you, marriedguy for bringing this up. I am in the process of re-thinking my position on many of these issues myself.

BTW...I've been in evangelical churches and small groups most of my life, and so has my wife. She is NOT interested in progressing beyond the accepted "rules" of the Bible...as they've been explained over the years. But I'm asking the same questions as you. 

The conclusion I've reached is this: If it's good with her, and it's good with me -- together -- without another "live" person involved, then it's not the business of anybody else. What WE do in the confines our bedroom is entirely up to US -- as long as we both agree & participate together.

She agrees in principle...but, is VERY fearful and hesitant to explore. I WILL say this...years ago, we watched a porn movie together in our hotel room because it was FREE (why not?) She LOVED it...and we enjoyed the BEST sex of our marriage that night. She's felt guilty and shameful about it ever since.


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## surfergirl (Jan 27, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> The other night my H watched some adult tv on HBO but came to bed to ME.


He came to bed with you...but who was he making love to? I mean obviously physically you...but who in his mind?


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

roymcavoy said:


> She agrees in principle...but, is VERY fearful and hesitant to explore. I WILL say this...years ago, we watched a porn movie together in our hotel room because it was FREE (why not?) She LOVED it...and we enjoyed the BEST sex of our marriage that night. She's felt guilty and shameful about it ever since.


Thats what I think can be a problem..people over analyzing things..why not just enjoy things..if your both up for it then why not? I mean..it can be dangerous..eventually people wanna hook up with a third person (stranger) because two is not enough..there never seems to be a limit..I guess thats what is mean by Sexual Immorality..
But I think with people who really do have their priorities straight..are mature about it..trust each other..why not enjoy a porn movie in the bedroom together? Laugh a little..put up some mirrors or even make your very own porn for just the two of you to watch...its fun..kinda kinky..different...why not?

The problem I think with porn is when one spouse isnt comfortable with it..they then feel insecure..meanwhile the other will expect things that the one spouse cannot do..

For our marriage..at least Right Now..porn is Not a good idea, as my wife isnt open enough about some of the more erotic things..

I try not to have a list in my head of different things that me and my wife have to do..but I automatically fantasize about them..even before I ever saw porn I was fantasizing about different positions..different erotic ways to have sex with a woman...I dont think theres anything wrong with wanting to explore them one day when your married..

Reason I would like to do facials is because I think its erotic...
I dont orgasm when I piss..piss and sperm are two completely different things...just like if a woman squirts..its not gross for the male lover..if she actually pees in his face, it could be a little odd for me..

Anal Sex..can be very enjoyable for some women..me and my wife have played around with it..of course she was turned off by the idea at first and still is shy about it..but..she says the one thing she likes about trying it is that she knows I like it..
As for how it feels? LIke it being too painful?
I think its one of those things that needs lots of time..your not going all the way the first time or you could hurt someone...me and my wife are very gentle with each other this way...she wanted me to know what it felt like so shes used toys to experiment..and honestly it can be very pleasurable for both..as long as you do it the right way (take your time..use lots of lube, listen to your partner, etc)

69, is another position that I think is just erotic and sexy...yeah its harder to concentrate..but so what? Its not like its that hard to do..why not do it if your partner craves this? This is why I cant understand why my wife doesnt want to do this anymore..just cuz its harder to orgasm this way, if she knows I like it..then why not just do it every once in a while?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I don't want to claim myself a Christian, but I was baptized. 

I don't want to let any religion dictate my mind. 

I accept the good things they are teaching, but I turn my back to the ridiculous stuff they try to instill. 

Reading more other stuff helps us more open-minded. I am also heavily influenced by Buddhism. 

My attitude is the same as several other posters, as long as it is only husband and wife involved, let's explore, let's enjoy our bodies, let's have fun! 

My husband was raised as a witness, and they are extremists. I am glad that my husband is not inhibited in sex part. He does a lot of reading, he is open-minded. He has been exploring my body ever since we started having sex, we have tried indoor and outdoor sex, we have done doggy, oral, anal, swallow, we enjoy what we are doing. We don't feel any guilt, we don't feel ashamed. Other people want to reserve their bodies and restrict their fun, I don't object. But I sure don't want to let their attitude towards life affect my thinking!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Porn & Christianity - You are funny Married Guy. You won't win this one with fellow believers -at least not out in the open.

This is what I find really fasinating, I still go to Church once in a while but I don't hide the fact I no longer consider myself a christian, if others want to judge me & put me on their prayer lists, I've come to expect it & just smile.  I have many issues I simply can not reconcile in the faith, enough to write a book about it ~~but it never ceases to amaze me when I open up about MY issues or differences (enjoying a little soft porn is one of them) -- they often start telling ME their 'pleasurable" sins in this area! You would be surprised how many seemingly good christians watch a little porn ! Don't kid yourself. Not all are as "clean" as they would have you believe. 


My church also views Soap Operas as a form of sinning as well. And let's be honest, IF you are a conservative Evanglical believer who takes Matt 5:28 literally, There is no excuses. I am not going to try to make them. You need to repent if your eyes have ventured there willingly , or your mind. To even entertain the idea of watching another couple naken in passion , positions , to allow a fantasy of another women enter your head, you have sinned against your Maker, and your wife. REPENT REPENT REPENT. The shame & guilt is God given to set you back on course. 

The Higher Test you are -likely the Hornier you are , Lust is like a gravitaional pull, then if you add the Frustration of not getting fullfilled, the more drawn to these things you will be also -how unfortunate is this! Why did GOD give man 10% more testosterone, it is a cruel joke you may ask! Then we have the unrelenting hamster wheel of guilt & shame to look forward too every day, might as well jump on, hang on for your life, it never stops, at least if you are a THINKER & take these things seriously. 

I have NO regret in this life MORE SO than my allowing religious puritan thinking to ROB me of exploring more spice & passionatate excitement in the bedroom with my husband. I feel I have lost near 19 years of his BEST years becaues of these things. See my "Awakening" thead. Many links within dealing with Religion and SEX, how they are at odds, it messes with our enjoyment and pleasure. 

Christian women struggle alot with this : Sexual Guilt

Sometimes I hop over to the Christian Sex forum -out of pure curisity - http://www.boards.themarriagebed.com/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=80e1d57fae7222f14b201ca24e09a4e3 just to read how FAR some take this purity thing - this guy feels guilt ridden before God becaues of holding hands for Goodness sakes, His FIANCE says Physical touch is her love language and she is miserable & feels like dying. How sad is this!  - one has to ask, what is THIS man hearing in the Church pew! I seen another one on there where the finace is masterbating -touching his butt asking if it was sin. One of his answers -only if you are thinking about your finacie when you are doing it ! 

I think we all need to draw our lines in the sand, but be careful not to REPRESS our sexuality in that process. Many do this trying to honor god, and it hurts their marrage bed.

I'll say this, if My husband was such a goody goody and forbade me a little porn when I was wanting to go there these last few years, or was against a little secular sexual learning, exploring, lusting after me, It would have destroyed our marraige. Thank the Lord he was not that UP TIGHT and puritanish. 

We enjoy watching some porn, we have learned from it, all a GOOOOOOOOOD experience for this once REPRESSED , very vanilla couple. Couldn't be happier today, we count it all a joy. It works for us, but we do not call ourselves christians. Just decent people who love and crave many forms of sexual expression. But vow to always remain Monogomous. We both agree a little fantasy is pleasurable! Many christians would call it sin.


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## roymcavoy (Apr 15, 2011)

Excellent! ↑↑


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## Sara Ann (Aug 27, 2010)

Enjoy pleasure, arousal, God. Love. Love. Love. 

Love those who watch porn or enjoy baking or fishing. If they like it, who cares? I don't eat meat, however I don't care if you do. Why would I??

When I am in a place that I care what you do, I have to ask what is going on with me that makes me so interested in your life?

I am not aroused by hard porn made for men. It is just fake. I am not aroused by panting women. I am aroused with real arousal, desire, passion, ie soft porn.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> You would be surprised how many seemingly good christians watch a little porn ! Don't kid yourself. Not all are as "clean" as they would have you believe.


My pastor came out and said he had a porn addiction. As he told his story I knew exactly what went wrong. He was raised so that his mom thought looking at the sears catalog was a sin. Then it became the forbidden fruit and he wanted it. And you would cringe if I told you his sermon on purity was about. Even in the context of marriage he thought some things were simply off limits. Really? How incredibly sad I thought. I no longer go to that church.

One of my friends husbands was addicted to hard core porn and she's quite the uptight religious type. Again he craved the one thing she said he couldn't have.

To me this is no different than if I told my kids they could no longer have sugar. They'd soon be craving it, hiding it, binging on it every chance they got.

This is why I no longer fear porn. If it's not forbidden and not shamed then it's power is taken away. Does that mean my H will never watch it? No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying by giving my permission it won't be abused.

So I too think more Christians watch porn than they admit. They appear clean yep but if they were all so clean then why are we having so many issues these days with priests. I just don't think this "everything is a sin" mentality promotes cleanness I think it promotes the exact opposite.

Just my .02 though. I do have a tendency to think many christians are hypocrites though. What they say and what they do are sometimes two entirely different things.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

magnoliagal said:


> My pastor came out and said he had a porn addiction.


Funny thing, the very 1st sermon I heard from my Paster - a good 17 yrs ago now was admitting he had a former Pornograghy addiction -from the Pulpit . So with God all things are possible. This type of admittance DREW me in because I LOVED his OPENNESS on such a Taboo subject, but as the years rolled past, you get to see just HOW stringent he was in everything related to sex... 

His children were not allowed to be alone with the opposite sex at all, practically till their wedding day. They were only allowed in groups. IF men in Leadership (or any position in the church) so much as gave a hug to a woman within church walls, he would get a call to the Office for a talking. No one holding any church positions is allowed to drive a single woman home or take a ride from a single woman, even if a 2 minute drive down the road. 


I don't think many Christians realize the same man who officially got the "Original Sin" idea associated with the book of Geneisis etc (St Augustine), was the same MAN who GREATLY associated SEX WITH SIN -- he was a who**mongering womanizer in his YOUTH ! So it stands to reason how he too did what many of these smaller examples of ours DID. Going to a far FAR extreme on the subject. 

http://www.patriarchywebsite.com/bib-patriarchy/deception-augustine-love-sex.htm

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/lithum/gallo/jeff2.html

I am with You magnoliagal !!


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## chingchang (Sep 21, 2010)

marriedguy said:


> Ok..The two words probably should never be put in the same sentence..at least not with the way I was raised..in a very conservative..christian home..
> but still..I find myself more horny than most people out there..always been tempted to look at porn but have felt guilty because of christian beliefs..
> Got married...now feel guilty if I think of watching porn because of both, our marriage and christian beliefs..
> But..a part of me says..if a couple is Married..and if a couple watches Porn TOGETHER and it is ok with both husband and wife...would it still be wrong under christian beliefs?
> ...


My wife and I watch it together on occasion and enjoy it! Nothing is hidden. I think of porn like alcohol. You need to be cautious. Some people can't handle it...it lowers their self esteem or they become "addicted". Others...like my wife and I...watch it together about twice a month and have a great time. Watching people have sex is exciting and fun...to us. We talk about it and it turns us on! 

CC


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## luckyman (Apr 14, 2011)

These are great posts. 

I don't think refraining from viewing porn is a Christian issue, but rather a personal, moral one.

I feel that men and women who participate directly in pornographic media are making a mistake that they may later regret, that aside, I believe that it is not psychologically healthy to watch pornography.

Pornography is an act of voyeurism that many find so intriguing that they develop an ongoing interest which (at times) encourages the viewer to view more, different, and progressively more specific, detailed and graphic material. 

The ability to click quickly from picture-to-picture observing graphic and sensual, emotionally-tinged images creates an obsession in many people. This obsession can lead to collecting large amounts of porn pictures and movie files and leads to more habitual viewing. In this way it can become an addiction.

These images are different than say looking at pictures of cars, or beautiful landscapes because sexual images appeal to our sensual, emotional, psychological interests. The images take on a much more important role in the viewer's life as a result. Combining the pornographic viewing with masturbation creates a neurochemical connection to the images. Each time a person masturbates to porn a connection is made, endorphins are released and the mind makes a very real connection: pornography is exciting, it brings me pleasure.

I don't know about you, but this is not a healthy process for me. Pornography is not psychologically healthy for me, so I don't view it. There have been a few (and I mean three or four) occasions where my wife and I looked at it, but these turned into more of a discussion of what is sexy, and what is just nasty. I can understand how viewing porn can help some people, but for me, I tend to stay clear of it.

I also don't think pornography is healthy for our society. It models sexually irresponsible behavior, encourages outrageous fantasy behavior and is a very poor teacher of healthy (or even functional) relationships. 

I go to great pains to try and protect my two boys from learning about sex via porn sites. I shudder to think that at the ages of 11 and 13 that they may have already seen such material at a friends house. I would hate to think that they developed a view that "this is what you do with a girl."

I don't have to bring God or Christ or any other religious belief into my reasons for not viewing.


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## bunnybear (Jan 13, 2011)

I'm Christian and I'm totally ok with porn as long as me and hubby watch it together only for fun


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## roymcavoy (Apr 15, 2011)

Good for you, bunnybear! I'm with you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

SA your amazing! I don't know how you can keep up with so much info, I have followed so many of your links and learned a great deal. Thank you so much for sharing many people are helped I am certain. 

When we were first married, my husband asked me to watch porn to learn how to do some things. I looked for a while but I became depressed and tearful. I wondered who the porn actresses were and what they were feeling. 

I dont dislike porn from a religious standpoint but a simple human standpoint. My husband watches and the only thing I asked was that he keep it private and make absolutely sure that there is no danger of the kids finding it. Otherwise, it is his private business what he watches.


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## rppearso (Feb 4, 2011)

marriedguy said:


> haha, yup had to open that can of worms..
> Me and My wife tried watching porn once..after about 30 minutes we shut it off..
> Everytime I looked at her she had this disgusted look on her face..like she was looking at a pile of poop, and vomit mixed together...and she got teary eyed and said..-why are you so excited to see this?-
> I wasnt that excited at all..and didnt have an erection once..it honestly felt like watching a movie with my mom that has alot of sex in it...you just cant enjoy it..
> ...


Sounds like you married an ultra prude, seriously you dident have sex for a few days because she was so disgusted?

All I can say is im sorry, you likely have a nightmarish path ahead of you with her, unless you were watching some child porn or something.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Pandakiss said:


> and if both people are ok with porn together, then its all good. if you watch porn, or read a raunchy book, you may be turned on, but you only want the one you are with. you dont know those people in the movies or in books, you have no connection to them.


I just want to say I agree with this. 

Coming from someone who is very very shy & backwards about another touching me, but at the same time I am HIGHLY affectionate/a physical toucher to the max -- I have never gotten a massage from a stranger, I have had opportunites, even for free , a demonstration at my "Mops" group by a Certified Massage Therapist, but I passed. I am just not comfortable with that at all. To have someone else touch me, oh no!! I have never kissed another, never held another's hand since I have been married. No desires to go there at all- but I LOVE a little sensuous porn. It is all about learning, arousing the senses but envisioning those things with the one you love. 

I *NEED* the emotional connection too, nothing else would do for me.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Pandakiss said:


> hi all--
> 
> in my mind, church and what happends in the bedroom should not be brought together....
> 
> its just the human condition, when you see sex, it stirs you, and it normal...church has no business telling you that turns you on, that turns you off...


Unfortunately, as a Christian myself, this is the type of attitude that has caused Christianity to lose it's affectiveness in being able to transform lives. Too many Christians treat the bible like a piece of chicken, they only chew on and digest the soft meat (the easy part to handle), but the hard bone (the difficult stuff that is hard and challenging), they simply discard.

This bible, if you are a Christian, is what should govern EVERY part of your life. Yes, sex between a husband and a wife is their business, but pornography, according to the bible, is wrong. 

Yes, I do understand the nature of man and that it is born with evil and carnal desires, but the bible also teaches that those who confess a faith in Christ are "a new creature". Yes, there are going to be battles with the old nature and the new nature because they are opposites and want dominance in one's life, but the one that prevails is the one that is "fed" the most. 

If a Christian continues to feed the natural nature and starves the spiritual, new nature, of course, carnality will rule. But if it feeds the spiritual, carnality will fade. It will not disappear but it's affects on the life of the Christian will not be as damaging.


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## roymcavoy (Apr 15, 2011)

marksaysay: I'm curious what your perspective is concerning the use of alcohol. I know many Christians reject it altogether because of "the appearance of evil"...AND, to avoid the possibility of substance abuse and drunkenness, which is clearly condemned in the Bible.

The reason I ask is this...it seems to me, the use of alcohol and pornography (together only...in the context of marriage) are predicated on self-control, which is listed as a "fruit of the Spirit." Without strong self-control...I'd hesitate to recommend the use of EITHER alcohol or porn (again, TOGETHER only, in marriage).

However, if a couple possesses the ability to control themselves, and carefully limit their consumption -- so as NOT to be overtaken by alcohol or porn -- are they not free to enjoy them fully (with discretion), making sure their behavior doesn't offend, or lead someone else (with less self-control) down a dangerous path?

Self-control seems like the critical linchpin in this regard.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Alcohol consumption in itself is not a sin, it's the overindulgence or lack of self-control. There is no scripture that states that drinking is a sin. But there is scripture supporting the fact that pornography (lusting, being aroused by literature, videos, etc. is lusting after someone or something not your spouse. It causes impure thoughts) is wrong. It is adultery. While it may not be outwardly, it is inwardly. God is as concerned about if not more concerned about the condition of the heart which is where all evil springs because of our naturally depraved nature.


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## roymcavoy (Apr 15, 2011)

Fair enough.

Just to clarify though, you don't believe it's acceptable to use porn AT ALL -- even for a few minutes, for it's aphrodisiac effect -- within the context of marriage?


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

luckyman said:


> These are great posts.
> 
> I don't think refraining from viewing porn is a Christian issue, but rather a personal, moral one.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I view porn as very bad for sex and relationships, and for women in society in general.

From a moral standpoint I believe it's very wrong to view it, it's exploitative and I do believe it makes men bad in bed. JMO.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> pornography, according to the bible, is wrong.


Yes, it is wrong for a Christian to watch porn. 

I won't debate with this. 

I just accept the fact I am a human being, I am not perfect, I make mistakes. 

At least the kind of mistakes I make don't hurt others, it only contaminates my body and my brain. I am not doing any harm to other people, much better than those who harm others. 

Some people are greedy, some people are haughty, some people are abusive, some people like to complain, some people like to judge, some people like to criticize others, etc etc etc. All these types of people are condemned in the Bible. According to God's standards, all of us are sinners, no one can say they are meeting all of God's requirements.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

roymcavoy said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Just to clarify though, you don't believe it's acceptable to use porn AT ALL -- even for a few minutes, for it's aphrodisiac effect -- within the context of marriage?


I had to chuckle at this post. This reminds me of a joke I heard a few years back. 

There was a deacon who was seen by his pastor ogling a scantily clad woman as she walked by. The pastor says, "now you know what the bible teaches about lust. It says if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out.". 

The deacon quickly covers one eye and continues to look and says, "well, I can risk one eye!"

Understand that I've dealt with a porn addiction and have been delivered from it. What helped me was being strongly convicted that any form of porn, be it erotic literature or movies or magazines etc is considered adultery. I'm married, although separated right now, but the fact that I'd classified porn simply as lust and not as adultery against God and my wife was enough for me. Any is wrong. There is no getting around it unfortunately.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I just accept the fact I am a human being, I am not perfect


The difference with a true follower of Christ is that they don't "just accept" the fact they make mistakes. They are actively trying to pursue holiness meaning they try to eliminate as much of the sin in their lives as humanly possible. The effort is futile as sin will remain but it doesn't stop them from trying. 

It's okay to fall. But it's not okay to fall and make the choice to not get back up. 

Additionally, by saying that your sin is not as bad as others means nothing to God other than the fact that you have attempted to elevate yourself based on worldly standards. With God, there are no big sins or little sins. All are equally sin. An unconverted killer and and unconverted lier both get the same punishment, eternal damnation. The world classify Sins by saying this one is more harmful than that one, but God doesn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Here's my thoughts on religion in general.

There are so many different religions - each one has chosen to believe that their interpretation of the bible "IS" what God intended and those who do not believe "them" are destined for an eternity in hell.

What if we/they are ALL WRONG? Think about it.

I dream of the day when we reach heaven and we're all sitting at the dinner table and the Jew is sitting next to the Protestant, the Protestant has a front row seat next to the Catholic and they are all sitting across from the Muslim saying to each other - what the HELL are you doing here?

That helps me keep my perspective.

We could ALL be right and then again we could ALL be wrong - only time and death will tell.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> What if we/they are ALL WRONG? Think about it.
> 
> I dream of the day when we reach heaven and we're all sitting at the dinner table and the Jew is sitting next to the Protestant, the Protestant has a front row seat next to the Catholic and they are all sitting across from the Muslim saying to each other - what the HELL are you doing here?
> 
> ...


I won't get into a debate about who is right or wrong. There are some that don't follow "the bible" at all. But I will say that I am a Baptist who really doesn't consider himself to be "religious" but as a "follower of Christ". I study the bible in it's original languages of Hebrew, Greek, and some Aramaic. I don't allow people to convince me of what the bible says. I study it for myself. I've learned that much of what people have said the bible teaches has been inaccurate because of the lack of understanding of particular words from the bibles original language and the meanings they carry. 

We each have to give an account of what we did and did not do. I would much rather follow the bible the best I can including expressing faith in the risen Christ and find out that He nor God exists than to not believe and find out he does exist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Personally, I feel that - generally speaking - religion is far more insidious and harmful than porn. Too much divisiveness and "We're right, everyone else is wrong" mentality, regardless of the particular "flavor" of religion one might subscribe to, and all wrapped up in the guise of being benevolent.

But, that's just my two pennies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> The difference with a true follower of Christ is that they don't "just accept" the fact they make mistakes. They are actively trying to pursue holiness meaning they try to eliminate as much of the sin in their lives as humanly possible. The effort is futile as sin will remain but it doesn't stop them from trying.
> 
> It's okay to fall. But it's not okay to fall and make the choice to not get back up.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on that. If you want to be a Jesus' follower, you do your best to repent and strive to do the good. 

And I also agree in God's eye, all sins are sins, there are no big or small. 

I guess I can never become a Christian.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I agree with you on that. If you want to be a Jesus' follower, you do your best to repent and strive to do the good.
> 
> And I also agree in God's eye, all sins are sins, there are no big or small.
> 
> I guess I can never become a Christian.


You can become a Christian. It's not hard. Confess him as Savior and believe that God raised Him from the dead. That's it. Living as a Christian is not easy. I make mistakes daily. Heck, I dealt with a porn addiction forever but I continued to try to fight it until it was gone. I didn't and couldn't just accept it. 

I am not a better human being than you or anybody else. As a song once said, "I'm just a nobody trying to everybody about somebody who can save anybody."


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> You can become a Christian. It's not hard. Confess him as Savior and believe that God raised Him from the dead. That's it. Living as a Christian is not easy. I make mistakes daily. Heck, I dealt with a porn addiction forever but I continued to try to fight it until it was gone. I didn't and couldn't just accept it.
> 
> I am not a better human being than you or anybody else. As a song once said, "I'm just a nobody trying to everybody about somebody who can save anybody."


I guess we will just accept the fact that we are human beings and we all have our sins to deal with!  

Jesus will forgive us, he knows we are weak humans!  

Hey, he forgave Peter and he let the woman wash his feet!


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## chingchang (Sep 21, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> But there is scripture supporting the fact that pornography (lusting, being aroused by literature, videos, etc. is lusting after someone or something not your spouse. It causes impure thoughts) is wrong. It is adultery. While it may not be outwardly, it is inwardly. God is as concerned about if not more concerned about the condition of the heart which is where all evil springs because of our naturally depraved nature.


Did you lust for your wife before you were married to her? Was it a sin then? Just curious.

CC


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

chingchang said:


> Did you lust for your wife before you were married to her? Was it a sin then? Just curious.


I would like to hear the answer to this also as MANY christians feel this is blatant SIN and in need of repentence before a Holy God. 

Here is the purity rule>> we can are masterbate, but let us think of a chair, the ceiling , maybe the ocean, really ANYTHING -but NOT A WOMAN , even your finance. 

Read this: Teens and Masturbation This is the boundary


> Philippians 4:8: "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things."


 Some men would say that women are lovely. I personally don't think God would condemn -but that is ME.

Even my christian son who is a worship Leader, wanna be Youth Paster, has never been with a woman (by choice, he is holding out for one) - We talked about this , he told me "MOM, I can't do that !" and he does not understand how ANY MAN can. (don't be alarmed, he is going to be a psychologist, we talk about everything!) And ya know what, I know this is the main reason he is humbled in life, because other than this, he is a shining example of a Christian in all ways. 

Once he used Satan in the same Sentence as masterbation. I was like - HOLD ON BUDDY! You are now taking Christianity WAY TOOOOOO FAR. He got a nice Reality talk on Testosterone that day & it's effects on men & their minds, this is NATURAL - NORMAL , and expected to want and desire women. 

If one wants to be THIS RIGID in thier beliefs, God Bless them, but to judge others who use a little fantasy. You are going against Nature my friend. I feel it is an insult to our MAKER personally. 

Beliefs like this REPRESS our sexuality. IF you desire to become a MONK, go for it, otherwise, use what God gave you to enjoy life a little. *Balance* and *self control *should be maintained in ALL things, including our fantasy life , but why take all the spice out of it, it takes the LIFE out of living, reduces believers to a stick in the mudd, a Saltine Crackerish way of viewing anything half enjoyable. I know, I used to be one! 

The lead singer for Creed was raised by strict Christian parents, he grew up in FEAR , alot of guilt & shame in his childhood, he rebelled in his teens, everything was sinful, a revolving door of repentence. He wrote this beautiful song when he learned he would have his own son YouTube - Creed - With Arms Wide Open -he did NOT want him to grow up like he did, it only hindered his enjoyment of life, I caught his story on an MTV special one night . 

Part of that song goes


> If I had just one wish
> Only one demand
> I hope he's not like me
> I hope he understands
> ...


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## joelmacdad (Jul 26, 2010)

As an active Christian in a local church this post both disturbs and pleases me.

I am disturbed because of the posts that detail how being religious has caused sexual repression and guilt. I do not believe at all that God created sex simply for procreation. He created it for pro-pleasure between a husband and wife as "they become one flesh." How that husband and wife wants to create that pleasure is up to them. I believe Song of Solomon details perfectly the sexual relationship between husband and wife and even includes description of oral sex believe it or not. And 1 Corinthians 7:2-5 pretty clearly states that sex is for pleasure and withholding sex is a sin as well.

This post pleases me because I agree with those discussing porn from a self-control and human dignity standpoint. Most "porn" does not portray any amount of human dignity and respect. On the other hand there are videos that portray sex from a standpoint of education and learning. If a couple wants some education and they can be in control I believe that is okay.

Here is a book from the 70's written for Christians and sex:
Amazon.com: Intended for Pleasure: Sex Technique and Sexual Fulfillment in Christian Marriage (9780800719371): Ed M.D. Wheat, Gaye Wheat: Books

God views one sin as bad as another. I can just as easily lose self-control with porn as I can being at the beach or local water park. I can lose it by watching a movie full of foul language and violence. I can lose it by getting drunk. I can lose it by spending too much money and going into debt.

So to me it does boil down to self-control, but self control is not easy with porn or many other things.


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## roymcavoy (Apr 15, 2011)

joelmacdad said:


> So to me it does boil down to self-control, but self control is not easy with porn or many other things.


I've heard the "fruit of the Spirit" (Gal. 5:22-23) described as a progressive ladder to maturity...with self-control being the final rung. So, I'd agree...the quality of self-control is never "easily" or "lightly" possessed. Neither is it easy to retain. 

However, armed WITH a right sense of self-control -- it would seem to me that *some* porn (as you point out), could be appropriately utilized by consenting spouses -- together -- within the context of marriage.

(....just trying to sort this out...)


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

joelmacdad said:


> On the other hand there are videos that portray sex from a standpoint of education and learning. If a couple wants some education and they can be in control I believe that is okay.


I love this and I agree wholeheartedly.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

joelmacdad- Your post is a breath of fresh air. 

Husband and I were just talking about Song of Solomon the other day and how I've never heard a pastor go within 100 feet of it. I'm going to assume that conservative Christians have ripped it out of their Bibles, in that it is clearly erotic material *gasp*


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## joelmacdad (Jul 26, 2010)

Appreciate the positive comments.

A couple of years ago our pastor taught a class on marriage communication and Song of Solomon was our primary book. There was also much discussion on porn in marriage and porn addiction in marriage. It was eye-opening to say the least with the end result about respect, dignity, and self control as has been mentioned.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

joelmacdad said:


> Appreciate the positive comments.
> 
> A couple of years ago our pastor taught a class on marriage communication and Song of Solomon was our primary book. There was also much discussion on porn in marriage and porn addiction in marriage. It was eye-opening to say the least with the end result about respect, dignity, and self control as has been mentioned.


This is wonderful to hear and makes me hopeful that there are churches that aren't afraid to talk about real issues, rather than making them hush hush and shove them under the carpet like dirt.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

joelmacdad said:


> On the other hand there are videos that portray sex from a standpoint of education and learning. If a couple wants some education and they can be in control I believe that is okay.


Here is 1 just example of such >> Bought this at the beginning of me & husband's adventures to start Spicing it up, living what we missed - after all those "vanilla" years of repressed sexuality ~~~ Amazon.com: Better Sex Video Series: Sexplorations - Volumes 1, 2, 3 DVDs + FREE Music CD "Journeys" DVD/music CD Set: Dr. Linda Banner, Ph.D., Dr. Eli Coleman, Robin Millhausen, Dr. Eusebio Rubio-Aurioles, MD, Dr. Mark Schoen: Movies & TV 

We found this helpful, delightful, many new ideas, scenarios, positions, just plain FUN, all good, I would call respectable- put together by certified Sex Therapists. Bought a ton of books too but my husband is not a reader- this was something where I could get a break from yaking my latest discovery & we could relax, watch, enjoy, even pause & talk about. 

I am all for morality to save people from harming their lives, marraiges & hurting others. *Self control*, *Love & Resepect *for your partner, *Understanding* and *Balance* is the key in all enjoyments of life & living. Including Pleasure & Passion in the marital bed ! 

Like Joelmacdad alluded to, many many things have the potential to be taken TOO far , leading to addictions or destructive behaviors where clearly SIN has a Reign on a person. These are never permissable and go against self-control, Love and all things "Godly".


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## rppearso (Feb 4, 2011)

To be certian God desires mercy not sacrafice. The dos and donts are to protect us but when "self control" is used as a tool to force unbiblical sacrafice it crosses the line. Self control is not to be used as a tool to manipulate people which it often times is.

If I have a contract and I want execution of that contract, I dont lack self control nor am I impatient i simply want to get something done. There is a line in the sand where people try to use self control to get others to unnessicarily suffer and that is evil.

In regards to sex, if I want sex but my wife is doing the dishes then we do it later that night. However if it goes into the next day (unless we talk about it and agree) then thats not a self control issue on my part.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

chingchang said:


> Did you lust for your wife before you were married to her? Was it a sin then? Just curious.
> 
> CC


I would have to say yes i did. It is also something that I've realized was wrong, in addition to the premarital sex and have asked for forgiveness of those things. 

Not to use it as an excuse, but at 23, i was not as spiritually mature as I am now and did a lot of things that I wouldn't do now. I was also in my partying/drinking/smoking weed mode, so I guess you could call it a package deal. I did it all back then. Not so now....


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

marksaysay said:


> I would have to say yes i did. It is also something that I've realized was wrong, in addition to the premarital sex and have asked for forgiveness of those things.


You know this subject just about kills me. Do you REALLY think your fiance would have even *LIKED* you had you not showed some sexual "desire" for her. Honest to God , I would RUN for the freaking hills if a boyfriend had THAT MUCH restrait, and felt it was a SIN before his Holy God to bestow that on me. What a pure kill joy, sucking the pure life out of passion. 

I understand the waiting, dont get me wrong. (I waited but I also lusted- and it was GRAND -other than the shame & guilt merry go round!) BUt a little lust from your fiance - God YES !!


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> You know this subject just about kills me. Do you REALLY think your fiance would have even *LIKED* you had you not showed some sexual "desire" for her. Honest to God , I would RUN for the freaking hills if a boyfriend had THAT MUCH restrait, and felt it was a SIN before his Holy God to bestow that on me. What a pure kill joy, sucking the pure life out of passion.
> 
> I understand the waiting, dont get me wrong. (I waited but I also lusted- and it was GRAND -other than the shame & guilt merry go round!) BUt a little lust from your fiance - God YES !!


:iagree::iagree:

This whole "Thou shall not desire" business is the precise reason I denied my husband sex for 4 1/2 years and why I am now in therapy to try to remove the brainwashed notion from my repressed and guilt-stricken brain.

It's why I started having panic attacks when I finally came out of my shell, sexually. It's why I still fight with extreme anxiety at times. It's why my therapist thinks I'm actually going through the stages of grief that I've missed out on the first several years of my marriage due to intense repression/religious guilt.

I can't ever go back to believing that desire is sin because living like that was a living nightmare for me. I've been depressed for at least since my son was born 3 years ago, but you know when the depression really started? When I started dating my now-husband. I found some journals the other day and reading them was just flat out painful. I was really struggling with desire, with lust. And because I was a youth leader and strongly active in church, I knew it was wrong. I knew I was sinning. But.I.Couldn't.Stop. My sex drive was _too high_. So I hated myself. I literally felt like something was wrong with me. I was taught that that desire, that lust came straight from Satan, tempting me. I felt sick that I could be so weak. And I wrote and wrote and wrote and prayed and prayed and prayed. The guilt was too much and I must have tapped into something deep inside one day and shut myself down. I still remember the day with clarity. I woke up, went to go visit my fiance. He grabbed me and gave me a big kiss and I knew right then it was gone. No desire. No drive. I felt nothing. I almost felt emotionally dead. I'd snapped. And we married 2 months later. Talk about a great start to a marriage.

Perhaps Christians should re-think how beneficial the "thou shalt not desire" mantra is. I wish the churches and people who believe desire is sin would pull their heads out of the sand and acknowledge how damaging some of these teachings can be.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

MGirl said:


> Perhaps Christians should re-think how beneficial the "thou shalt not desire" mantra is. I wish the churches and people who believe desire is sin would pull their heads out of the sand and acknowledge how damaging some of these teachings can be.


As long as maintaining that kind of control over their congregation's collective mind keeps them coming back for their next "fix" of religion (and, by extension, filling the church's coffers), I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

Grayson said:


> As long as maintaining that kind of control over their congregation's collective mind keeps them coming back for their next "fix" of religion (and, by extension, filling the church's coffers), I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.


Yup, fully aware of that, precisely why it's a wish and only a wish.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> I won't get into a debate about who is right or wrong. There are some that don't follow "the bible" at all. But I will say that I am a Baptist who really doesn't consider himself to be "religious" but as a "follower of Christ". I study the bible in it's original languages of Hebrew, Greek, and some Aramaic. I don't allow people to convince me of what the bible says. I study it for myself. I've learned that much of what people have said the bible teaches has been inaccurate because of the lack of understanding of particular words from the bibles original language and the meanings they carry.
> 
> We each have to give an account of what we did and did not do. I would much rather follow the bible the best I can including expressing faith in the risen Christ and find out that He nor God exists than to not believe and find out he does exist.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And that WAS exactly my point.

We all think we're right and everyone else is wrong when it comes to religion.

I think we're all wrong and when we get to heaven (keeping MY fingers crossed), we'll all figure it out.

For me it's about God itself, not everyone else's interpretation of what he did/didn't say or what he meant.

So I don't judge those who think they're the only ones "going" to heaven and that I'm destined for hell because I don't buy into their interpretation of what God wants.

Hence the reason for my post - I keep it in perspective and don't care or worry about what others think in this respect - I believe what I believe and you can believe what you believe.

I'll see ya at the dinner table!


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Grayson said:


> As long as maintaining that kind of control over their congregation's collective mind keeps them coming back for their next "fix" of religion (and, by extension, filling the church's coffers), I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.


On the flip side it's why many of us leave. We see the damage this type of thinking does to a marriage. After following several bible studies on marriage which only led to me feeling worse that's when I began to question their logic. I just think you have to be careful because infallable humans are the ones interpreting the bible. It's a human that's the pastor. And as a CPA that used to audit churches yes many times they do get too caught up in their bottom line. They've many times got debt and bills to pay just like the rest of us.


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## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

In my opinion, it isn't God's desire that Christians use porn:

- porn often objectifies and depersonalizes sex
- porn can torque healthy desires and expectations, making satisfaction more difficult to achieve in the long term
- porn removes the natural boundary of physical privacy which God intended to separate people who are not married

I'm not judging but merely offering explanations for why Christians such as myself believe porn isn't a good idea. As another poster commented, God's motivation is PROTECTION NOT KILLJOY. No, I do not judge others who choose to view porn.


That said, I grew up with the opposite problem in my conservative Christian upbringing: sexual guilt. Being only attracted to fit, confident, sensual women seemed to be at odds with my religious beliefs. As a result I suffered serious depression on and off for years. Instead of being honest with myself about what I truly needed in a wife, I played it safe and married a "good girl" I had no attraction for. It has wrecked my life and made for an impossibly difficult and lonely marriage. 


I guess what I'm saying is, somewhere is a middle ground. When interpreting Scripture, it's important to understand not just God's words but also his motivations. That helps us discern doctrine from dogma, and it provides us a way to avoid becoming a casualty on the battleground of love. 


-seahorse


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

seahorse said:


> . When interpreting Scripture, it's important to understand not just God's words but also his motivations. That helps us discern doctrine from dogma, and it provides us a way to avoid becoming a casualty on the battleground of love.
> 
> 
> -seahorse


When interpreting Scripture, it's equally important to remember that the words you read are not words written by the deity you believe in, but by human men who lived approximately 2000 years ago and had their own agendas. Those words have further been (mis-?) translated, re-translated, (mis- ?) interpreted and re-interpreted by other human beings, also with their own agendas.

Assuming the deity in question exists, it's unlikely that the words in the Bible bear any resemblance to his intentions for the little science experiment he has going on here on our little blue marble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I won't get into the Christian dogma on pornography. Marksaysay covered that pretty well.

The other religious posts remind me of the Daniel Tosh quote, "When a woman tells me, 'I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual.' I reply, 'I'm not honest, but you're interesting.'"

That said, here is a nonreligious/nonspiritual reason to avoid pornography. Strippers and porn actresses are usually not working their way through law school. They are typically drug addicts who were abused as children. When you watch porn, you are watching the result of child molestation. That's just not sexy to me.

Also, porn actresses typically sign away the rights to their work. Some performers leave the industry and are unable to shut down websites named after them (MyName.com) in order to prevent people from viewing the movies they made in the past.

Pink Cross Foundation has some information on how adult industry (porn & prostitution) workers and consumers are harmed by the industry.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

surfergirl said:


> He came to bed with you...but who was he making love to? I mean obviously physically you...but who in his mind?


For some darn reason women always think this. As a guy married for 18 years, and a recovering porn viewer, I have never (and cannot) make love to virtual images. Porn just ramped up the juices. Watching people having sex has a way of doing that. Those images were of complete strangers, many of whom were not nearly as beautiful (or even as young) as my wife. And even if they were supermodels, I had no feelings of love or affection for them at all because they don't know me and wouldn't give me the time of day even if they did know me. Men (in general) are not as sexually integrated as women. I wish women could understand this, but since they have the tendency to be much more integrated sexually, so this just doesn't make any sense to them. I never once, when viewing porn, compared anyone to my wife physically. The real thing is a zillion times better and isn't fantasy; so there simply isn't anything to compare. What I was guilty of, however, was wishing that my wife and I had the passion that I saw between total strangers. I wanted our sex life to be fun and alive. I wanted us to have a ton of fun and pleasure. That is what I longed for. At times, we have had way better sex than any porn scene I've ever seen. Even having simultaneous orgasms that were absolutely heavenly. But those times were becoming more rare and I found myself wanting to experience passion vicariously through porn in much the same way a woman might want to live vicariously through a romance novel or a soap. Some women are sometimes so jealous of the looks of other women and can't fathom the idea that when a man looks at porn they are not necessarily comparing her to those "other women". I could get turned on watching flabby 50 year-olds have passionate sex, even if the woman was as homely as can be. 

To stay somewhat on topic, I'm a Christian. I have never felt guilty for having any kind of sex with my wife. I've never felt guilty for feeling attraction to women. I've never heard any sermons at the churches I've attended that think sex is somehow dirty or anything of the sort. The opposite is true for me. Leaders at my church have always said to me that sex is a gift from God and He created our bodies to experience sexual pleasure in the best context for it: Marriage. My wife and I are 1% of the population these days. We both married as virgins at age 23 and 22. We know each other very well sexually and have grown in our sexual relationship together. We aren't perfect, and we have had our share of sexual problems like just about every married couple I know. No infidelity, so we have lots of trust in each other sexually (and in other areas, too).

Being a Christian (my wife is, too) has enhanced our sex life, not diminished it. I'm sorry to hear that some have experienced sad things from "well-meaning" church leaders regarding sex. My wife and I have not had that experience, however.


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