# Trust



## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Trust....will it ever come back?

He's trying so hard, but I need so much from him...I begin to wonder if it will ever come back?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

It won't just come back, it needs to be earned and it will take some time to regain.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Thank you,

He's doing so very much, looking after me, giving me all access to emails, texts, face book, phone...you name it, i have it covered..but he has to go away from home and stay overnight for meetings and its wearing us both down.

Its been 2 years of R and we were making some serious headway when he's recently had to stay away from home, up late in a hotel with female colleagues (how he previously cheated) and he kept in touch but didn't do the one thing I asked him to. Phone/message me from your room when you're going to bed.

I had his iphone tracked and messenger placing him...I just wanted him to message me from his room at end of night and he says he fell asleep....and he probably did...but I don't know that! and he doesn't get that!

He just doesn't get it! I've gone back to the start!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Like I said it needs to be earned. Where it was once given freely it will now have to be earned and achieved and this might not ever be able to happen. I hope that it works out for you, but can tell you it didn't for me. Even though my STBXW was transparent with everything, she was reluctant to be forthright with everything and I had to work for the information and truth. I know how this is and after a while it just becomes too much especially when they don't get it (and after a while it becomes an issue that they will accuse you of controlling, snooping, and invading privacy at which time it becomes too much for most people). I wish you the best but if after 2 years he doesn't get it, I don't think he probably ever will.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

so are you saying he didn't do it lunch or that he never does it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> Thank you,
> 
> He's doing so very much, looking after me, giving me all access to emails, texts, face book, phone...you name it, i have it covered..but he has to go away from home and stay overnight for meetings and its wearing us both down.
> 
> ...


Quite personally there is no excuse..and I'm not trying to rile things up but it is the one thing you asked he do..he could have done it as soon as he walked in the room. 

So what was his priority? What was the first thing on his mind? Did he forget you or did he just relegate it, ranked it as not so important, he had to brush his teeth first etc etc

It's usually not what is done when the person is around you..around you they will be good as gold, maybe even heck sincerely act and believe whole heartedly in R and healing but when they are away.. like your husband, with the women, the old habits start creeping back, then he "forgets" to do the one thing you needed him most to do.

If he always going to be in this job, and will in the future have opportunities to go on these trips, you'll always be stuck wondering when he "forgets" or falls asleep


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

I had to give up. There was no way after 4 years of trying that I was going to spend the rest of my life living like that. The mistrust won out over trust. No matter how trustworthy he portrayed himself to be, my gut just would not allow me to stay with him one second more.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It took time, several years, in fact.

But it never came back 100%. 90%, yes. But maybe unwavering, blind trust is not a good thing, anyway?


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Calibre1212 said:


> I had to give up. There was no way after 4 years of trying that I was going to spend the rest of my life living like that. The mistrust won out over trust. No matter how trustworthy he portrayed himself to be, my gut just would not allow me to stay with him one second more.


Wow C1212, that's tough to read. Are you happy now?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LR does your FWH generally lack the capacity for understanding or empathy 

Is he that callous or obtuse?

The others are spot on He just does not get it.

The question is .....What now ?

55


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Rugs said:


> Wow C1212, that's tough to read. Are you happy now?


I am happy to be rid of that lifestyle. I am happy to rediscover who I truly am minus the hypervigilance that broken trust demands. Thanks for asking Rugs


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Two years isn't much time when it comes to being traumatized. You're still going to trigger - probably will, when he travels, for many years to come. 

Have you both read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by MacDonald? I think it really helps with the "getting it" part.

And MattMatt is right - I would never expect to get to 100% trust again. How could you? Getting to much better than zero - which is where we all start at on D-Day - is what we should aim for. Percentage-wise, high 90's is a realistic goal, but after what you've been through don't ever think you should trust 100%. And for your healing, he NEEDS to work on "getting" that.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

LRgirl

I have wondered and asked myself this same question. At almost nine months out from d-day I can say WW will not ever get the level of trust she had. In fact I think I was wrong to trust WW unconditionally. I have trust issues to begin with so I'm having difficulty trusting her again. So for me it's trust and verify. Occasionally I will look through her phone Facebook and email but I don't want to be a warden either. WW needs to rebuild my trust in her. WW has been transparent and I have all passwords. If I had to put a number on the level of trust I would say the highest WW could achieve would be 80%. WW isn't happy about my trust in her but understands. Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

drifting on said:


> LRgirl
> 
> I have wondered and asked myself this same question. At almost nine months out from d-day I can say WW will not ever get the level of trust she had. In fact I think I was wrong to trust WW unconditionally. I have trust issues to begin with so I'm having difficulty trusting her again. So for me it's trust and verify. Occasionally I will look through her phone Facebook and email but I don't want to be a warden either. WW needs to rebuild my trust in her. WW has been transparent and I have all passwords. If I had to put a number on the level of trust I would say the highest WW could achieve would be 80%. *WW isn't happy about my trust in her *but understands. Good luck to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is exactly why. 9 Months out and she isn't happy about your trust in her? She should be ecstatic that you haven't given up on her and she still has a chance and not being worried about her happiness in your trust in her.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

The things with trust: 1) The deceit and pre-mediation required at the onset of betrayal of the marriage 2) the deceit and meditation required for the maintenance of betrayal of the marriage in order to sustain the affair 3) the deceit, pre-meditation and meditation required on and after DD for the "benefit" of the WS & sometimes the AP. These 3 harsh realities are VERY difficult for the BS to recover from.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> This is exactly why. 9 Months out and she isn't happy about your trust in her? She should be ecstatic that you haven't given up on her and she still has a chance and not being worried about her happiness in your trust in her.


I agree but my trust issues have held me up several times. I'm not saying I should trust WW more but I trust much more slowly than most people. MC has also identified me having trust issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

@ DO... & rightfully so. We are talking about gross violations of trust from the person closest to you. If your therapist is avoiding that fact, that's another story. What are they trying to say? Past experiences made you a magnet for untrustworthy people?


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

If I am having issues with a GF that NEVER cheated on me because of what my ex wife did, I can only imagine being with the cheating spouse.. 

I had my Ex look to cheat and then finally cheat. I can clearly and honestly tell you looking to cheat and cheating are 2 totally different worlds.. It's like almost getting shot and getting shot..

looking to cheat and catching them still gives you some sense of power and worth if you get what I mean.. You still have some control. 

But when they cheat... WOW... You just finally come to the realization that you have zero control anymore.. There just isn't a way to put the genie back into that bottle. It totally fvcking sucks massive moose c0ck..

You're looking for a warranty or guarantee that is impossible to have. No matter how much you say, don't cheat on me again, don't hurt me again. You just know it means sh!t since they did it once already.. 

I don't believe in god or religion, because if I did I would be praying to the devil for some unholy revenge.. 

This sh!t just doesn't affect you or the both of you. It fvcking hurts anyone else your with afterwards. No matter how much time you're alone, the minute you're with someone else you just don't know how you will react until something triggers you. And unless that other person is a very understanding person or has been in your shoes, you will be looked at nothing short of crazy for your reactions.

I thought I was okay and I have come to realize I'm sadly not..


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I agree but my trust issues have held me up several times. I'm not saying I should trust WW more but I trust much more slowly than most people. MC has also identified me having trust issues.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't feel bad about it and don't let MC make you feel ashamed of your time frame. Everyone heals in their own way and time and a good counselor should recognize that. It can also be extended out even more depending on how heinous the betrayal was.Wow, sounds like your MC is right on top of it, to identify that someone whom has experienced a betrayal by the love of their life would have trust issues (bet this took lots to identify). Bet if they dig deep they will also find out that you loved your WW deeply and gave yourself unconditionally to her as well hence the problem with trusting again after such devastation.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

@ HTH: You are okay. You will be okay...It is YOUR choice. 

I refuse to allow my experience to change my perception of what good love is. I absolutely refuse to allow that cheater to ruin the rest of my life. I haven't started dating yet, but I do know what I am looking for in the future, and if I can't find it or it can't find me? I am content to love myself and stay celibate. I will accept no alternative or derivative. Lessons learned minus the baggage.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

OP. Im 3.2 yr out... I still dont trust. When the door to the tv room is closed a bit and he's sitting there w his phone in hand, argh.... my gut just dies... when he walks the dog, and I see him answer his phone, I die inside too, and live DDay all over again. Whenever a txt comes through, I ask right away, who is it from? When he is out, I ask now, where are you going, how long are you going... 

He travels for work all of the time, he also has his own apt as his job keeps him away from our house, he lets me know 24/7 his life, he really is trying too in a lot of ways, but I dont have his passwords, as I would have to give him mine, and I have a lot of D inform coming on mine that if he knew, it would anger him, & undermine his promise to never abandon me emotionally or $... how sick is that ???? 

~sammy 

But maybe in another 5 yrs if were still together the trust will come back...


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I believe there are different kinds of trust that are effected by cheating.

- The trust that they won't cheat again.

- The trust that they are not just "settling" for you for convenience or security.

- The trust that they truly regret what they did rather than regret being caught.

- The trust in your own heart; to overcome the hurt and become emotionally available again.

- The trust that you made the right decision to stay.

With today being the third anniversary of Dday, and still in R; I can't say that any of those don't still effect me; particularly my emotional availability. I don't ever expect to regain the trust that once was. But one thing I've discovered, is that having a remorseful and caring WS can help compensate.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Calibre1212 said:


> @ DO... & rightfully so. We are talking about gross violations of trust from the person closest to you. If your therapist is avoiding that fact, that's another story. What are they trying to say? Past experiences made you a magnet for untrustworthy people?


MC hasn't avoided trust at all. In fact she found the cause, my job. As a result of my employment I don't trust many people. In fact I believe people are always lying to me. I would say that probably 85% of the people I deal with are in fact lying to some degree. MC pointed out how I didn't trust her either. So I admit I have trust issues to work on. Infidelity hasn't helped these issues in case anyone was wondering!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Don't feel bad about it and don't let MC make you feel ashamed of your time frame. Everyone heals in their own way and time and a good counselor should recognize that. It can also be extended out even more depending on how heinous the betrayal was.Wow, sounds like your MC is right on top of it, to identify that someone whom has experienced a betrayal by the love of their life would have trust issues (bet this took lots to identify). Bet if they dig deep they will also find out that you loved your WW deeply and gave yourself unconditionally to her as well hence the problem with trusting again after such devastation.


Squeakr
Thanks for understanding! MC has actually been a big help to me with the trust issues. I have no timetable as to when I will heal from this betrayal. I only hope I get back to the person I was. Our MC has actually been outstanding. I took your comment above as sarcastic but she has been great. Don't need to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to figure out I don't trust my WW. WW has worked hard to earn that trust back. I know I would have trust issues in any relationship, even if I divorce WW, in the future. Infidelity destroyed that for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

If you don't have trust you don't have nothing. I have nothing.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Squeakr
> Thanks for understanding! MC has actually been a big help to me with the trust issues. I have no timetable as to when I will heal from this betrayal. I only hope I get back to the person I was. Our MC has actually been outstanding. I took your comment above as sarcastic but she has been great. Don't need to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to figure out I don't trust my WW. WW has worked hard to earn that trust back. I know I would have trust issues in any relationship, even if I divorce WW, in the future. Infidelity destroyed that for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes it kind of was tongue in check sarcasm. I just get tired of MC always trying to find fault with the BS in such ways as this by pointing out the obvious about trust issues and expecting it to be overcome easier than it has been going, as they view it as a road block. They have a knack of making the BS feel bad for having a human reaction to the infidelity and expecting them to put emotions and feelings aside until the root of the problem can be reached (which lots of times that is the root for the BS as they thought all was fine) which translates to we need to find out why the WS was unhappy and this essentially alienates the BS by telling them their feelings aren't as important as they more than likely are the true source of the issues (have a way of blaming it all on the BS and making the WS feel fine for their reaction while the BS is wrong for theirs).

I don't know how many times I heard during sessions (until I stopped going and looked for another MC) that we needed to put my issues off until we reached the root of these problem otherwise we could never heal and therefore we needed to focus on why the STBXW was unhappy in the marriage. It essentially made it feel like my issues didn't matter and hers were more important, which is alienating the BS and trying to blame them some how for the WS problems. We can't focus on my healing until she was healed and happy and then we would focus on my issues (had a MC tell us that directly in a session, of course the WS used that against me as she would throw it in my face saying I must have been the source of these martial issues and even the MC saw it). So how does that help the M by only focusing on one aspect of the M every time (which meant her issues solely, so I saw no reason to go if I was never really involved in the therapy except as a scapegoat, as I was never even addressed during the sessions except to verify her stories)? 

I didn't want you to feel that you were supposed to feel bad or responsibilities for your trust issues and the time it takes to heal, as a good counselor won't put you on a time frame or schedule. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

My H did make an immediate and urgent call to Marriage Guidance the day I asked him to pack his bag and spend at least a night away from me. He got an emergency appointment but I didn't go, he went to a second appointment, again I did not go. My gut feeling was that I would be in some way held responsible for his infidelity.

Instead we both sat night after night looking back, talking, analysing what went wrong and we did this between us. We got quite a long way on our own, counselling ourselves without some 3rd party possibly making me feel worse than I already did.

I get the impression from what my H said about his meetings that the counselor wanted to dig into his childhood and there is where she laid blame....not very helpful really.

It was obvious from our own talks what had gone wrong....he felt unattractive and unwanted and on some level unimportant in my life. The problem here is if one partner feels this way and looks outside for the ego boost or gap to be filled we end up with that spouse having an affair or infidelity, as my H did.

So now he is happy, probably happier than ever before on most levels as he can see how much I love and need him....all at my expense...and the expense of my forever trust.

So because he has 'changed' because 'he knows' he wont cheat again I am just expected to believe him?!

I would be very surprised if he cheated again having seen my devastation and almost loss of his family...but the WS must always realise that the damage is permanent, the trust is lost even if they never stray or put a foot wrong ever again.

Someone said in a post on this thread, trust and verify...this is exactly what I have been doing and it has worked very well...I have access to emails, I have access to face book, to his phone and even his work log in, I can see everything I need to keep me reassured he is indeed changed.

However, this all falls apart as soon as WS forgets, even briefly that the BS still need 100% clarity and verification...of 'I am where I say I am' or whatever it might be.

In my case all my H needed to do for me was send me Instant Messenger message which would pin his location that he was back in his hotel room at a reasonable time and that he stayed with his phone should I wish to call him.

It broke down because he says he knows where he was, and he's kept in touch with me during the evening, and because he knows he wont ever cheat on me again ...he seems shocked and surprised I have an issue that he didn't send me that message from his room. He gets frustrated that I don't trust him now.

Saying 'why would i cheat on you?'

Saying ' why would we go through the last 2 years if I was going to cheat on you?'

I say 'why, because you did it before and I never in a million years thought you could do that to me'

I have told him quite frankly, I probably will never fully trust him ever again, and probably no body else either unfortunately. The damage is so great when someone destroys trust to the point where you don't trust your own gut feelings any longer.

Like others have said, it is a matter of how long I can do this for now. I feel quite strongly that even though day to day we are happier than ever before, if he lets me down like this again with the 'trust/verify' we will be over for my sanity sake if nothing else.

Thanks for all the feedback, so good to not have members being very negative and automatically jumping on the 'he probably cheated on you again' bandwagon, which has previously put me off posting on TAM for quite a long time.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

LRgirl: I completely understand where you are coming from. 

Once trust is destroyed, it never comes completely back, no matter how long it is. The incident, i.e. cheating, lying etc., has built a little room in your brain. The door is closed when the WS does the proper things but pops open when something happens. Because of the disrespect that the WS showed you anything opens the door.

Others may say when you tell them that He did not texted you before going to bed " Oh my spouse does that all the time, it is nothing." but because of your history, it is not nothing, it is a trigger. 

My thoughts, the WS wanted to "R" to save what they had thrown away. The WS knows that they had destroyed the Trust they know they need to do "MORE" (i.e. texted from room before going to bed) 
Yes, to me this is something they need to do this is asking them to RESPECT YOU. You are not asking him to wear Sack cloth, you are asking him to do something for you to make you feel better as a sign of Love and Respect from him.


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## Want2StayMarried (Oct 14, 2014)

LR i haven`t dealt with a sexual affair before (before anyone jumps on me i said dealt with not that one might not be going on), and i understand you love him or you definitely would not be sticking around to deal with all that, and i get that you do not trust him... but is there no other way to keep tabs on him or something so that you don't have to do all of that? For years? I am not judging how you do things or anything I am just worried about you and from the sounds of it its not working very well. I think you should either find another way to monitor his activity if that is what you need to do or be more firm with him about doing what he is supposed to do! It is not acceptable to not do the things he knows he has to in order for you to stay. Make that clear whatever way necessary. It is not fair for you to be worrying and panicking because he can't check in. that is bullcrap!


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## Want2StayMarried (Oct 14, 2014)

Also, ask him why exactly you are supposed to trust him if he doesn't respect you enough to do something so simple as checking in? If you don't want to know i do! There is no wonder there are serious trust issues when he isn't following through.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Want2StayMarried said:


> Also, ask him why exactly you are supposed to trust him if he doesn't respect you enough to do something so simple as checking in? If you don't want to know i do! There is no wonder there are serious trust issues when he isn't following through.


This is the thing, without having gone through this you can't understand just how much different the mindsets are, especially when you find out that they were doing something lie opening apps and different email accounts to conduct their business (as one starts to wonder if even though the account are transparent, are these the only accounts in existence and have they started opening new ones again to include burner phones, apps, accounts and Facebook accounts under hidden names, as all of these happen easily enough and are almost impossible to track, which destroys the trust further, as i know with the STBXW doing all). I am to trying to jump on you, just give you possibly an understanding of what a BS goes through and how tiring it can be to run through all of these things time and again. Short of a tracking bracelet like criminals wear, tracking is hard (and even then it wouldn't stop them from internet/online/phone encounters).

When they "just forget" they usually meant nothing and figured it harmless, but you are triggered back into the devastation you felt when the issue was discovered and your mind starts thinking about all the things they have done. Generally the WS is able to compartmentalize and move on not letting it destroy their everyday life, whereas the BS is not able to do the same and this destroys any trust that has been regained. It makes it worse when you need to constantly check and verify that what they "should" be doing is what they "actually" are doing.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Hi want2staymarried,

Believe me I am firm...and one of those married people that say right from day dot that infidelity is not something I would ever tolerate. However, when you find out something that happened way back the lines get blurred, or mine did!

On DD I made it clear to my H that in order for us to save our marriage I would need access to all texts, emails, phone, face book, none of which were ever pass worded any way...they had always been there quite open I just never thought to look.

Now he has an ipad which he leaves at home, this shows all texts, incoming, outgoing and trashed mails. It shows face book and face book messages and instant messenger messages. I have access to his work log in and can acivate that when ever I want. I can even access to recover any deleted trash. I have iphone tracker via the ipad to his phone, and instant messenger is used when he is away so I can pinpoint literally where he is when he sends the message. Up until this recent blip he has not let me down...in any way that I can see.

So the night in question he was doing everything possible, except that one most needed 'check in' at the end of the night. When he arrived at the hotel which was 3.5 hour drive away he messaged me from his room and again where he was spending the evening so that I could see where he was and also using the iphone tracker could check on his movements. We spoke on the phone and he messaged me often.

He does not stay away from home for conferences, or any where female colleagues are and drinking, but this was a last minute pre-conference meeting for the conference the following day. He did drive home after the conference and got up early the next morning (4am) to drive back for the second day. It was unrealistic to expect him to drive home both Wednesday and Thursday evenings to go back again for Friday.

He has offered that i go with him, but I decline as not very practical when i also have work and the children...

I can't begin to understand why he let me down so badly, but as I've said before I think he just doesn't 'get it' because he knows what he's doing and he knows he wont cheat he expects me to 'know' this too.

He knows now if he does it again,...has me crippled in panic at home while he's asleep I will snip his bits off and send him packing!

Thanks for the support x


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I think your husband's job and his requirement to travel may be the crack in your R that breaks it. 

By 2 years my hyper-vigilance really tapered off and I don't get the urge to check up at all nowadays. Part of the reason is that she quit her job and moved into a different career that enables me to feel much more comfortable and able to verify and therefore trust her. Thus whenever he goes to travel you are faced with a trigger and the subsequent fear and doubt and when he slips up on something he should be doing to help you feel better then all hell breaks loose with you. (and understandably so)

He really needs to get his requirement to travel changed or get another job or else he will have a good chance to lose you.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Hi almostrecovered,

I have considered this long and hard, but I feel it wouldn't matter where he works, even if he worked from home. 

Trust is always going to be an issue.

I imagine, but don't know for sure,obviously, that there are many BS who have thrown in the towel, and I fully understand why...the pressure is so great, the paranoia sets in one too many times,.....They leave their WS......but in the next relationship is the trust renewed in the new partner? I doubt it. 

Once bitten! 

If I leave my H and meet another, would I trust them 100% No, I doubt it very much.

It sucks for sure but I will never trust 100% ever again.

Somebody once told me I was naive to believe a man wouldn't cheat if it was offered on a plate. I truly believed my H was one that could be trusted. Now I feel if 'he' could cheat on me, any man could cheat on any woman. Reality? Probably? Maybe?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> I think your husband's job and his requirement to travel may be the crack in your R that breaks it.
> 
> By 2 years my hyper-vigilance really tapered off and I don't get the urge to check up at all nowadays. Part of the reason is that she quit her job and moved into a different career that enables me to feel much more comfortable and able to verify and therefore trust her. Thus whenever he goes to travel you are faced with a trigger and the subsequent fear and doubt and when he slips up on something he should be doing to help you feel better then all hell breaks loose with you. (and understandably so)
> 
> He really needs to get his requirement to travel changed or get another job or else he will have a good chance to lose you.



:iagree:

55


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> Hi almostrecovered,
> 
> I have considered this long and hard, but I feel it wouldn't matter where he works, even if he worked from home.
> 
> ...


LRG Remember my Winston Churchill comment in our PM ?

Have you tried IC for your trust issues? They are not misplaced but they need to be managed for you not for him. 

It's his job to rebuild this brick by brick

His lack of empathy i.e. not calling you when you requested is no small oversight.

I will ask again is has he always been so callous and obtuse ?

Serious character flaw in a relationship with a spouse or family member.

He really needs to get to the bottom of this.

55


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

You asked him to do something for you, and he agreed that he would. Then he failed to do it. He let you down. He broke a promise. It being a minor promise makes it worse. How can you trust him with something big like not cheating again if you can't rely on him for something small like phoning you?

He doesn't understand that he's making the big picture worse with small failures. If he doesn't want to understand, won't make the effort even with the small promises, then maybe reconciliation isn't going to work.

And yes, I can't imagine that you're going to magically trust a future new partner if you do decide to break up with your spouse. In my experience, once your rose-coloured trust glasses have been broken by one person, you look at everybody differently after that.

So your choices are not fully trusting your spouse, and not fully trusting a future partner. It really all hinges on your spouse's character. Do you think he's repenting and trying hard to regain your trust otherwise, with occasional failures? Or is this small failure emblematic of his overall attitude?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I don't know how many times I heard during sessions (until I stopped going and looked for another MC) that we needed to put my issues off until we reached the root of these problem otherwise we could never heal and therefore we needed to focus on why the STBXW was unhappy in the marriage. It essentially made it feel like my issues didn't matter and hers were more important, which is alienating the BS and trying to blame them some how for the WS problems. We can't focus on my healing until she was healed and happy and then we would focus on my issues (had a MC tell us that directly in a session, of course the WS used that against me as she would throw it in my face saying I must have been the source of these martial issues and even the MC saw it). So how does that help the M by only focusing on one aspect of the M every time (which meant her issues solely, so I saw no reason to go if I was never really involved in the therapy except as a scapegoat, as I was never even addressed during the sessions except to verify her stories)? 

I didn't want you to feel that you were supposed to feel bad or responsibilities for your trust issues and the time it takes to heal, as a good counselor won't put you on a time frame or schedule. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Squeakr

Focus has been on me at MC. Almost wish it wasn't some days. I appreciate your words about MC. Many therapists aren't real good but my WW hit a home run with who she found for MC. I try to trust my wife more than I did yesterday today. That has been my goal for trust. Yes I did love her unconditionally and I thought she felt the same towards me. Don't understand how I missed that one with her.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By LRgirl
> I have considered this long and hard, but I feel it wouldn't matter where he works, *even if he worked from home*.
> 
> Trust is always going to be an issue.
> ...




If I understand this situation right your husband has been faithful for two years and you have excellent access to all his devises and he is monitored very well. Your husband failed to contact you when he was away once and of course that was a violation of your agreement with him. *Am I right?*

If he has two years and is clean then that is a good start. I made my WS prove herself for 4 years before I trusted her to a high degree again. However, after two years I was not as upset as you are when an incident happened that failed to comply with everything that I demanded. I am not about to tell your to back off but sooner or later you are going to have to start adding more trust in him if you are going to stay with him. 


You are right in that you will never have 100% trust in him and it is safe not to not have 100% trust in anyone. However you will have to have around 90-95% trust in him if you are going to save the marriage. Your reaction tells me that you have a lot less than 90% trust in him at this point. *Am I anywhere close to being correct?*


I am a BS and I do not want to ever give a WS an excuse but if you do not achieve at least 90% trust in your husband he may start thinking that he is such a bad person that he will get seriously depressed. You know him better than I do so you will have to make that judgment. 

You may have been so hurt, because you trusted 100%, that you may need more help not getting so upset when you think that he is not guilty of anything. You sated that you do not think that he did anything wrong except he assumed that you were assured that all was ok and did not call. Your words on your last post seem to indicate that you are really upset and hurt to a high degree. *Do you think that you may have overreacted just a little bit?*

I do not believe that two years is enough time to get 90-95% trust back for most people but two years clean and his actions that you described seem to say that he is doing a lot better than most that I read on this forum.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

This issue is why I almost always advocate divorce. I simply do not believe that full trust is ever recovered. There will always be some underlying mistrust. I think it is a permanent fixture in the marriage, post affair.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> LRG Remember my Winston Churchill comment in our PM ?
> 
> Have you tried IC for your trust issues? They are not misplaced but they need to be managed for you not for him.
> 
> ...


Hi 55

I have always thought my H was sensitive to my needs, but not overly demonstrative with words....but in actions yes. He looks after me amazingly and has changed so very much over the past few years....I can see a new man.

We have had an amazing marriage this past couple of years, for more reasons that him working very hard at R. Money issues improved, kids being older, us spending so much quality time together...both of us making every effort to show love and attraction and care etc... all the reasons he probably cheated are dealt with and i do feel 98% sure I can trust him.

His every day actions allow me this trust.

He has had to stay away over night over the past 2 years but never with a group and in particular with female colleagues present...and we have to remember this is how he cheated in the past. Extremely drunk and ended up in a colleagues room x2 once in 2005 and once in 2011.

This is my biggest fear and that is why it meant so much for me that he checked in. The very fact he did not do this thing knowing how fragile I was about this night away is what I cant get my head around.

He is a very good H now, he isn't insensitive to my needs on any level and shows his love for me in many ways.

I know realistically he let me down because on some level he is assured all is well and so feels I have the same assurance....this and this alone I feel is the problem at hand.

The main reason I started this thread was because I wanted to understand how others have dealt with trust when their WS has changed and done everything right but feels its time to move forward in the trust area before the BS is ready.

This recent lack of judgement on his part has unsettled me because on some level I feel he is becoming irritated by my lack of trust.....where I believe this is his only important job i the world if he wants to keep us together.


He knows he isn't ever going to cheat again, so I should.

He knows he was asleep in his hotel room, so I should.

But he isn't looking through my eyes...I don't actually know anything. I need him to prove this to me.

I really don't want to imply or be misunderstood that i don't trust my H and R isn't working. I do mostly trust him because I have no reason not to...and our R is going strong....

How can a WS ever truly understand how every action counts, how important it is to trust / verify and allow that for as long as it takes without rushing or expecting anything too soon.

This night away was the first where female colleagues would be present so yes a massive trigger for me. He knew how sad and worried I was about him having to go...so my reasons for being so upset are simply this; why would he allow me this current pain and the trust to be driven back down the scale from 98% to 50% for a simple requirement from me. To contact me from his room at the end of the night.

He let me down and now I feel like he can't understand why this is so important to me, for us.

When I try to explain it, for some reason right now I feel like he's becoming irritated and impatient. Like I keep saying, I feel like he just doesn't get it! When he acts like this I get edgy and worry he's possibly keeping something from me again, which is maybe paranoia on my part, but the trigger has taken me back to a year of him lying and being defensive...so his actions have caused me serious mistrust.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> If I understand this situation right your husband has been faithful for two years and you have excellent access to all his devises and he is monitored very well. Your husband failed to contact you when he was away once and of course that was a violation of your agreement with him. *Am I right?*
> 
> If he has two years and is clean then that is a good start. I made my WS prove herself for 4 years before I trusted her to a high degree again. However, after two years I was not as upset as you are when an incident happened that failed to comply with everything that I demanded. I am not about to tell your to back off but sooner or later you are going to have to start adding more trust in him if you are going to stay with him.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

You got it right....two years of nothing to mistrust at all really,, but the problem was this one night was a trigger for me and he knew it before he went.

The situation so similar to the nights he betrayed me. So I really needed, and expected him to do the right thing for me.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

I gave blind trust.....will never happen again!!!


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

*From your description you husband is doing GREAT.* I do think that he should have done what you wanted because this is the first time that he was away and in the company of women. However, *I do think that you are a little paranoid.* My wife got into an affair when she was going to Night College. After two years she again started going to Night College, in the company of other men, and I was not upset like you. She had gained a lot of my trust back; around 95%.



> So my reasons for being so upset are simply this; why would he allow me this current pain and the trust to be driven back *down the scale from 98% to 50%* for a simple requirement from me. To contact me from his room at the end of the night.


I really do not think that your 98% trust in him is very solid. If you got so upset over his assuming that you should trust him because he knew that he was loyal and that he assumed you trusted him, then your 98% is fragile. What he failed to do did not warrant your trust going from 98% down to 50% IMO. *Dropping that much over the incident tells me that your trust is either not really 98% or it is very fragile*. I would not say this to a couple that has only been in average R for one year but your husband has been way above average for over two years according to your posts!


Since your post is asking us about trust then I think that you are just little paranoid and the result is that your husband is getting irritated and impatient with your lack of trust. I think that you are just a little to absorb with your hurt feelings considering what you have told us. Your description of your WS husband positive actions is one of the best that I have ever read!

I know I will probably be blasted for seemly taking up for the WS but that is what I see in your situation. If I did something very wrong and then I proved very strongly that I was determined to change for over two years, and presented that truth to the one I offended, but then made an error by not calling,* I could not help feel dejected and irritated that she had so much doubt in me.*

In my case when my wife went crack to Night College I had been working on myself to get stronger for two years. When she went back to college I had got myself into the condition that I was not going to be so worried and be a cop monitoring her every move. *I did not want to live like that. I was strong enough and could make it in my life if she fell back into her weakness. *

I sincerely wanted to make it with her but I was not going to have my emotions rattled to that extent anymore. I made it very clear that I had gained a lot of trust in her, based on her proven actions for two years, but that her future actions were no longer going to dictate my life. If she cheated gain I would eventually find out and that would send me on my way as a single man. Her actions will determine our future together and I am not going to get upset and act unless there is a proven situation where she has cheated again. 

*My wife did a very good job in the first two years and we have now had over 20 years of successful R*


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> *From your description you husband is doing GREAT.* I do think that he should have done what you wanted because this is the first time that he was away and in the company of women. However, *I do think that you are a little paranoid.* My wife got into an affair when she was going to Night College. After two years she again started going to Night College, in the company of other men, and I was not upset like you. She had gained a lot of my trust back; around 95%.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you sincerely.

Who on earth could slate you for that response?!

I have to agree with you 100%

He has proven himself for over 2 years, and he is doing everything right, except for this blip.

Its so bloody hard being a BS.... when can I call myself a former betrayed spouse?

Maybe I just expect too much....in a nut shell, and in my defense, I guess I'm not as ready as you in my 2 years post DD.

I feel weak in some areas and strong in others and I want to R 100% so I am doing the best I can at this moment in time and he is also....but its such a bloody shame he didn't send me the message because we'd still be at 98% trust and moving forward.

He has read this thread today and knowing that helps me greatly. Him seeing that others from a similar situation can verify why I feel as I do must surely help him to reassess. 

Being 2 years on in R is something to be proud of I feel, and I'm very protective of it, but I'm still very fragile too and this is what he needs to be aware of.

Many thanks x


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

LRgirl said:


> Thank you sincerely.
> 
> Who on earth could slate you for that response?!
> 
> ...


I don't think your trust is fragile, necessarily. It's just that in two years, it had NEVER yet been tested under the same circumstances in which it was broken the first time. He knew that the circumstances had you feeling extra nervous and you had asked for extra reassurance to help you deal with it. Then he forgot, or decided not to provide it. Then of course your mind started racing; not only had he failed to do something he promised he would, you had to wonder and ruminate over WHY he broke that promise. Was he forgetful? Was he lazy? Was he not in the hotel room? Was he with a colleague? Was the cheating starting again? Etc.

Any betrayed spouse understands completely that you were a pile of nerves that whole evening and it just got exponentially worse when the expected phone call time came and went.

And now that you know he just chose to skip the call when he clearly knew it was important, you have to wonder what made getting to bed sixty seconds sooner more important to him than your peace of mind and the ongoing reconciliation?

If he clues in and wholeheartedly understands and apologizes, reconciliation can resume despite the setback.

If he keeps trying to shrug it off or blame it on you for still being too paranoid, then you know how little importance he places on his role in reconciliation.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

It's often said that it takes 2 to 5 years for a BS to start to feel somewhat "normal" again. Everybody's journey is different, so where one couple is at when they reach the 2 year mark isn't necessarily where another couple will be. I think your reaction is completely understandable.

I think most people who have been traumatized understand why triggers can make it seem like we are reliving the pain and fear of trauma related events as if they happened just today. We don't want it to be that vivid, but it is. We don't want to need constant reassurance and frequent check-ins, but we do. And we want our spouses to "get it" and to understand that they made us this way, and because of that, we want them to be more than willing to do whatever it takes to help us to feel comforted and to prevent as many triggers as possible. 

That's why I highly recommend Linda MacDonald's book How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair, as well as Shirley Glass' book NOT Just Friends. Both help explain the very real trauma that we experience, how the healing takes literally years, and how when reconciling, the unfaithful spouse has to get very good at empathy in order for us to truly heal.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

hopefulgirl said:


> It's often said that it takes 2 to 5 years for a BS to start to feel somewhat "normal" again. Everybody's journey is different, so where one couple is at when they reach the 2 year mark isn't necessarily where another couple will be. I think your reaction is completely understandable.
> 
> I think most people who have been traumatized understand why triggers can make it seem like we are reliving the pain and fear of trauma related events as if they happened just today. We don't want it to be that vivid, but it is. We don't want to need constant reassurance and frequent check-ins, but we do. And we want our spouses to "get it" and to understand that they made us this way, and because of that, we want them to be more than willing to do whatever it takes to help us to feel comforted and to prevent as many triggers as possible.
> 
> That's why I highly recommend Linda MacDonald's book How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair, as well as Shirley Glass' book NOT Just Friends. Both help explain the very real trauma that we experience, how the healing takes literally years, and how when reconciling, the unfaithful spouse has to get very good at *empathy* in order for us to truly heal.


LR IMO I believe your H is grossly lacking in this.

55


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> LR IMO I believe your H is grossly lacking in this.
> 
> 55


Empathy....yes I have wondered about this recently. 

I think there is a real lacking here, strangely only something I am beginning to realise this past few weeks.

I have said over and over 'put yourself in my shoes' and this frustrates him...I have said 'you just don't get it' so many times recently too.

I am naturally very emphatic so I find it hard he is lacking here.

In over 20 years of being together and 20 years married next year this is only just registering with me.

This is probably the main reason why people have RA 

I don't want to find myself on that path, but can understand why BS do this.

Thank you


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## rustytheboyrobot (Nov 20, 2013)

hopefulgirl said:


> It's often said that it takes 2 to 5 years for a BS to start to feel somewhat "normal" again. Everybody's journey is different, so where one couple is at when they reach the 2 year mark isn't necessarily where another couple will be. I think your reaction is completely understandable.
> 
> I think most people who have been traumatized understand why triggers can make it seem like we are reliving the pain and fear of trauma related events as if they happened just today. We don't want it to be that vivid, but it is. We don't want to need constant reassurance and frequent check-ins, but we do. And we want our spouses to "get it" and to understand that they made us this way, and because of that, we want them to be more than willing to do whatever it takes to help us to feel comforted and to prevent as many triggers as possible.
> 
> That's why I highly recommend Linda MacDonald's book How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair, as well as Shirley Glass' book NOT Just Friends. Both help explain the very real trauma that we experience, how the healing takes literally years, and how when reconciling, the unfaithful spouse has to get very good at empathy in order for us to truly heal.


I think about stuff like this a lot. Often. What you R people are going through. There was no R in my case. Just d-day and the next day when I spoke with WW and got some trickle of reality that made the horror so much worse. She didn't know what I knew and thought I knew other stuff so I did get a big chunk of new knowledge. Today I know that the rabbit hole goes far deeper then I can see when I stick my head in it. How deep does it go? I no longer want to find out.

Are you better off or am I? I don't have to worry about what WW is doing anymore, even though I do worry, but the limited contact helps. I do not get to see my son very much. I want to see him and he wants to see me but that's not how it works. Unfortunately.

When I made my first post last year he didn't talk. He didn't walk. Now he talks to me and climbs into our treehouse by himself. Gives me big hugs and kisses 

Oh what I would give to have a real family... but not like you have. I wouldn't do that. I won't do that. I feel like just popping into every thread and saying "it's time to D!" But the what if's drive me wild! What if WW would have done everything I needed to feel safe, yet I never felt safe anyway? What if she said and did all the right things and that wonderful feeling of trust and love I used to have came back? What if I could _go back there?_

I'd give anything to go back there. But it was never real. I just believed it was real. Is it better if I could go back and never have d-day? If we could all go back and just make things different? Or she could lie to me better... she told me that was her plan if I caught her. She would lie to me better.

Today. After a year. If I could go back two years ago to when I believed her lies... was I happier? I was *so* happier. I was so much happier. But was it real? It was never real. What a bitter pill. None of it was ever real.

Oh I wish all you R'ing spouses so much happiness. But if I could go back and accept her terms and try to R or do what I did and leave immediately and file immediately? I'd still file. I want a real life.

Good luck to all of you. I'm always wishing you the best.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

rustytheboyrobot said:


> I think about stuff like this a lot. Often. What you R people are going through. There was no R in my case. Just d-day and the next day when I spoke with WW and got some trickle of reality that made the horror so much worse. She didn't know what I knew and thought I knew other stuff so I did get a big chunk of new knowledge. Today I know that the rabbit hole goes far deeper then I can see when I stick my head in it. How deep does it go? I no longer want to find out.
> 
> Are you better off or am I? I don't have to worry about what WW is doing anymore, even though I do worry, but the limited contact helps. I do not get to see my son very much. I want to see him and he wants to see me but that's not how it works. Unfortunately.
> 
> ...


Wow, you have described exactly my fears if I had filed for D on DD.

When I saw my H face on realising I knew what he had done, when he saw my devastation he was as heart broken as I was. Neither of us slept or ate for what seems like weeks. We had a period of serious 'bonding' which in some ways probably saved us in the early days....but mostly I think because I found out 2 years after the first incident. He spent another year lying to me to cover up the fact he had also messed up two other times, once in 2005 and once early 2011.

So after finding out the first incident, although i was sure there was more to be confessed....he changed so much...I mean transformed himself...so a year later he confessed two other incidents (not affairs, sexual encounters without full intercourse)

I was beside myself, but finally had what I'd wanted, the truth! Not pleasant, but he sat and told me in as much detail as I required, which was complete full detail. I threw him out and he made an emergency call to MC so I knew he was serious about making the right choices for the future.

He has done everything I need to help me trust him, except for this recent blip....and so rationally I am happy with our R to date.

2 years in we are happier than ever before. We have both made a lot of changes. We both could see what went wrong in our relationship and we both decided it was worth another go.

I posted somewhere on this thread that I have to learn to trust my H again....and I know if I had filed I would be in the same boat with another partner...with or without reason on their part, but because I will never trust blindly again.

My H is pretty much perfect now...but I will always have one eye open, I'd be stupid not to.

You know your wife better than anyone else, maybe you made the absolute correct decision for you both.


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## rustytheboyrobot (Nov 20, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> Wow, you have described exactly my fears if I had filed for D on DD.
> 
> When I saw my H face on realising I knew what he had done, when he saw my devastation he was as heart broken as I was. Neither of us slept or ate for what seems like weeks. We had a period of serious 'bonding' which in some ways probably saved us in the early days....but mostly I think because I found out 2 years after the first incident. He spent another year lying to me to cover up the fact he had also messed up two other times, once in 2005 and once early 2011.
> 
> ...


That's great! No my WW was not sorry, she told me she wasn't sorry, and has never shown any remorse. I just like to imagine the what if's if she had. She did not plan on stopping having affairs. She just planned on lying to me better. Even if I did want to try to R by the time of d-day she had graduated to a secret burner phone, multiple secret facebook accounts, and was using online dating at work. Using Words With Friends to text..... Having an affair with her married boss as well.

After I exposed that A to his wife the WW wanted to reconcile again. I used it as an opportunity to get more information and tried to get more time with my son. All I got was TT though. That and more gaslighting.

I'm glad your d-day went different from mine! One of the things I read was that if you are truly going to rebuild you need to spend a minimum of 15 hours a week alone with each other. And that more is better. Have you done anything like that?


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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

How painful trust that has been breached is!!

I applaud you for even attempting to trust again. You are a very strong person for that.

IMHO, though trust isn't something that CAN be re-gained. It simply is there - completely and unwavering - until it is destroyed. When it is destroyed, it can't be reconstructed. 

Again, just my opinion.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

rustytheboyrobot said:


> That's great! No my WW was not sorry, she told me she wasn't sorry, and has never shown any remorse. I just like to imagine the what if's if she had. She did not plan on stopping having affairs. She just planned on lying to me better. Even if I did want to try to R by the time of d-day she had graduated to a secret burner phone, multiple secret facebook accounts, and was using online dating at work. Using Words With Friends to text..... Having an affair with her married boss as well.
> 
> After I exposed that A to his wife the WW wanted to reconcile again. I used it as an opportunity to get more information and tried to get more time with my son. All I got was TT though. That and more gaslighting.
> 
> I'm glad your d-day went different from mine! One of the things I read was that if you are truly going to rebuild you need to spend a minimum of 15 hours a week alone with each other. And that more is better. Have you done anything like that?


I'm sorry your wife had no remorse, that must be the most painful response to finding out your S has cheated

Yes almost right away we both made big changes in our lives and dedicated so much time to one another.

Each Saturday we now spend together, nothing gets in our way, that is our day. We cycle, hike, walk or climb and it has been great....getting fit and being together and talking so much while we are at it. This was very important for my H....us spending recreational time together....before I simply refused to do or go anywhere always saying I was too busy. I was, to be fair. So now we share house chores and I have dropped my working hours so that we can have weekend time that isn't merely spent doing house jobs.

It has made all the difference.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

lonelyhusband321 said:


> How painful trust that has been breached is!!
> 
> I applaud you for even attempting to trust again. You are a very strong person for that.
> 
> ...


It is the most painful thing about R, because it wasn't the actual cheat that crippled me, but the lying and the lost trust.

I know how important trust is to me, it is more important than anything else....absolutely top of my list.

So this is hard for me.......trust can be re-built so far but never again will it ever be taken for granted and i'm sorry to say, no I wont ever trust him like I did before.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I'm sorry your wife had no remorse, that must be the most painful response to finding out your S has cheated


I can say exactly that this is the worst feeling. There is nothing in my opinion that is more cold than your WS looking you into the eyes cold and callously and stating that yes they did the deed and regret nothing of it and you deserve the pain that they are now bestowing on you.

I hope it works out for you.


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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

LRgirl said:


> It is the most painful thing about R, because it wasn't the actual cheat that crippled me, but the lying and the lost trust.
> 
> I know how important trust is to me, it is more important than anything else....absolutely top of my list.
> 
> So this is hard for me.......trust can be re-built so far but never again will it ever be taken for granted and i'm sorry to say, no I wont ever trust him like I did before.


I completely feel where you are coming from about the lying and the lost trust. THAT was what hurt the most for me, too.

To trust someone absolutely and completely, and then to find out all the lies and deceit is crushing.

Trust (for me, anyway) is sort of like a commodity. Once it is gone, it's gone. I'm glad you're able to regain at least a measure of it.


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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

rustytheboyrobot said:


> I think about stuff like this a lot. Often. What you R people are going through. There was no R in my case. Just d-day and the next day when I spoke with WW and got some trickle of reality that made the horror so much worse. She didn't know what I knew and thought I knew other stuff so I did get a big chunk of new knowledge. Today I know that the rabbit hole goes far deeper then I can see when I stick my head in it. How deep does it go? I no longer want to find out.
> 
> Are you better off or am I? I don't have to worry about what WW is doing anymore, even though I do worry, but the limited contact helps. I do not get to see my son very much. I want to see him and he wants to see me but that's not how it works. Unfortunately.
> 
> ...


It is a bitter pill indeed, but the bitterness is at least real...

Hang tough!!


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## j1974 (Oct 9, 2014)

LRgirl said:


> Yes almost right away we both made big changes in our lives and dedicated so much time to one another.
> 
> Each Saturday we now spend together, nothing gets in our way, that is our day. We cycle, hike, walk or climb and it has been great....getting fit and being together and talking so much while we are at it. This was very important for my H....us spending recreational time together....before I simply refused to do or go anywhere always saying I was too busy. I was, to be fair. So now we share house chores and I have dropped my working hours so that we can have weekend time that isn't merely spent doing house jobs.
> 
> It has made all the difference.


as someone who is on the verge of probably losing her marriage and wishing we had what you and your H have going on right now with each other .. don't let it go! trust is huge, but the fact that you and H decided that R was worth it, you will get it, just live in the moment and love the changes you are seeing and sharing together .. some people really do change and make it, just allow yourself to rebuild and trust based upon all he has done over the last 2 years .. good luck!


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## Imstrong123 (May 18, 2013)

It is the huge rock those who are betrayed must carry forever. Blind trust will never come back. Forgiveness is a BIG word (I can forgive someone spilling wine on my couch, but this huge betrayal??), I can learn to LIVE with this, accept it happen, accept this man was not who I thought he was, that he lied, and hurt me more than anyone else will ever hurt me....I can accept he is flawed, but I can not turn a blind eye to the fact that he stopped because he wanted to and not because I caught him...(also, it would have been a lot easier to move past this, if he had come forward and confessed instead of trying to hide it, and forget about it, but he had stopped all communication 7 months prior), the fact that he never wanted, or intended to find someone else, to the fact that these last two years he has been every bit the man I thought I married and maybe......we can start creating a new "history" with this new man...but blind trust? Should never have been there, will never be there again. And I will not be able to forget it either...maybe that is HIS rock, the one he needs to carry...all of a sudden mine seems a lot lighter!


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Imstrong123 said:


> It is the huge rock those who are betrayed must carry forever. Blind trust will never come back. Forgiveness is a BIG word (I can forgive someone spilling wine on my couch, but this huge betrayal??), I can learn to LIVE with this, accept it happen, accept this man was not who I thought he was, that he lied, and hurt me more than anyone else will ever hurt me....I can accept he is flawed, but I can not turn a blind eye to the fact that he stopped because he wanted to and not because I caught him...(also, it would have been a lot easier to move past this, if he had come forward and confessed instead of trying to hide it, and forget about it, but he had stopped all communication 7 months prior), the fact that he never wanted, or intended to find someone else, to the fact that these last two years he has been every bit the man I thought I married and maybe......we can start creating a new "history" with this new man...but blind trust? Should never have been there, will never be there again. And I will not be able to forget it either...maybe that is HIS rock, the one he needs to carry...all of a sudden mine seems a lot lighter!


:iagree: completely.

I love my H and we are mostly doing great in R but this R will last a lifetime, and i doubt I will ever forgive him, its too big to ever forgive and I think he knows it. He's never once asked me to forgive him, although he does kind of expect me to trust him more than I do...but I wont ever trust him again.

The thing is when you break your vows, they are broken. End of!

So the marriage wont ever be 'whole' again. It can be better in many ways, than it was before, because cheating doesn't happen for no reason. Either a character flaw in the cheater or a flaw in a marriage, even at a specific time line in the marriage...with a lot of changes on both sides I believe a marriage can become stronger, but to forgive, to forget to trust? No.

I think my H realised when he cheated on me that if I ever found out he would be out of my life, so he has had to work extremely hard to stay in it. He simply would not be in it now if he hadn't proven himself daily, every day since.

Unfortunately I'm not one of those people who can 'move on' and not bring it up. It lives with me daily, hourly even. I can't let him forget if I remember it so often. It isn't punishment, its how it is.

Maybe that will change one day, but for now my H has his own rock to carry.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> :iagree: completely.
> 
> I love my H and we are mostly doing great in R but this R will last a lifetime, and i doubt I will ever forgive him, its too big to ever forgive and I think he knows it. He's never once asked me to forgive him, although he does kind of expect me to trust him more than I do...but I wont ever trust him again.
> 
> ...


LRG....Really digging your inner strength.You seemed to have regained some composure here.The tenner of your posts lately have reflected that.

Please continue to share your thoughts and express your growth.
I hope the days of your hit and run threads are behind you.

You are making progress in my eyes. I hope you see that as well

Trust.....That's something you need to feel in yourself.

I think you are getting there.

55


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> It took time, several years, in fact.
> 
> But it never came back 100%. 90%, yes. But maybe unwavering, blind trust is not a good thing, anyway?


Trust is one of the most fragile and in essence the easiest thing to give into once the initial fear or commitment is taken. Children, for example, can and eventually do trust the people who they are taught to depend on as well as thru experience, such as friends and family. I can toss my youngest son, like all my children when they were tots, up in the air, and catch him with giggles aplenty. But that one time I miss, by accident of course, he will require efforts and a lengthy rebuilding process afterwards to reestablish it was an unintended consequence. 

But lets say I did it on purpose knowing full well what would happen? Then that just makes me an a55hole. That blind trust I had in him didn't erode, it evaporate completely and I will never be able to attain that same level of trust or even come close to doing so.

This is no different when it concerns a cheating spouse. The mistrust will always be there, but initially what did we have to go on to facilitate even the chance of betrayal? Nothing, so our trust is solidified by our intentional vulnerability to our loved ones, especially our SO since relationships and marriage is based on choice, not the cycle of life as family or parent/child relationship. 

The mistrust though is never able to be relieved, but suppressed and with great effort as things cannot be unremembered and the impact or ability of suppressing these feelings can only be dictated by the efforts ones Wayward or hopefully former wayward can muster and deliver. I wouldn't dream of leaving my children behind with the trauma and stigma of telling them the reason that I left was cause they didn't make me feel X,Y,Z. They would never be able to trust a living soul again, and in many ways I feel this is the way adults cope with adultery, ever wondering if they can trust another or even themselves since the WS made it clear that the BS was indeed the reason, and sole reason, the relationship failed, the betrayed then have to wonder if this was true, that they truly sucked, and some may never be able to trust themselves enough to realize it wasn't.


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