# Never Thought I'd Ask Myself



## SoThisIsIt (Jan 30, 2011)

First off, I have been reading the posts and threads on this board for quite some time but, have never posted before. Today, however, I find myself needing to post in the hopes that I will receive some good feedback and insight, like I have seen with others.

I'll start with some background information. My wife and I have been together for 17 years (I'm 40, she's 43) and we have three fabulous children, all in grade school. Over the past 7 years we have had the textbook definition of a sexless marriage, averaging a brief interlude about every 4 to 5 months. This has been a problem for me but, not for her. Over the years I have asked to seek counseling (she won't go), tried to put romantic evenings out together, provided her "time off" from parenting, acquiesced to her statements of "if you do this then it will get better" (it never did), etc. She has a difficult time talking about sex and eroticism and mostly ignores my attempts at initiating the conversation. At one point she said to me "welcome to married sex" and ended the conversation.

I have asked her on numerous occasions how we can make our relationship better and she has asked, in return, "is there a problem? I don't have one." To which I usually respond that if one of us has a problem then we both do and our marriage does; which gets a half sympathetic acknowledgement and a change of topic. I have, in no uncertain terms, told her how important intimacy and sex is to me and how I feel it should be integral part of a thriving, successful marriage but, all I get in return is "the look" and the very seldom "leave me alone but don't leave me" sexual encounter.

This brings me to where I am today. After 7 years of a marriage devoid of sex, intimacy and a partner who is not receptive to my wants, needs and desires nor a willingness to fully acknowledge or address the problem, I found myself asking questions I never thought I'd be asking myself:

"Can intimacy be brought back to our marriage?" and "Am I able to feel intimate with her after such a long time of being shut out, denied and frustrated?"

Can anyone provide input, guidance, suggestions, opinions, etc.?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why would you bother to ask those questions? She's not going to change anyway. She's made it pretty clear where she stands. You could try the manning up in the men's forum, but if you can turn her around, I'd nominate you for man of the year.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoThisIsIt (Jan 30, 2011)

Pbear - I ask those questions because I do love my wife. I just do not love/like what our marriage has become and where it is at. I may be inching toward one of a few possible actions/outcomes so I have to ask myself those questions.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

what do you love about your wife?


I hear it all the time I really love my wife/husband and then theres a whole list of crap they have been eating while being married.

so really what do you love about your wife.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

SoThisIsIt said:


> First off, I have been reading the posts and threads on this board for quite some time but, have never posted before. Today, however, I find myself needing to post in the hopes that I will receive some good feedback and insight, like I have seen with others.
> 
> I'll start with some background information. My wife and I have been together for 17 years (I'm 40, she's 43) and we have three fabulous children, all in grade school. Over the past 7 years we have had the textbook definition of a sexless marriage, averaging a brief interlude about every 4 to 5 months. This has been a problem for me but, not for her. Over the years I have asked to seek counseling (she won't go), tried to put romantic evenings out together, provided her "time off" from parenting, acquiesced to her statements of "if you do this then it will get better" (it never did), etc. She has a difficult time talking about sex and eroticism and mostly ignores my attempts at initiating the conversation. At one point she said to me "welcome to married sex" and ended the conversation.
> 
> ...


Dude, you need to shock her out of her complacency. There are a lot of ways to do this, but they all have the same effect: making her realize, perhaps for the first time, that your mutual sex life and your cozy, comfortable life you have together are connected in some way.

First, ignore "the look". If she isn't giving it up to you anyway, why are you worried? For the sake of the Children? Having an unhappy couple of parents isn't going to make them any better people, and if you have boys then you do them a disservice in demonstrating that a man is essentially an appendage of a woman, to be used at her discretion, not a full partner in a married relationship. So ignore "the look". She's using it to control your response. If you let her, then you've already ceded the war before the battle has begun.

Secondly, you need to get her attention. Forget "wining and dining" -- you need a weekend away, just the two of you, that you arrange, plan, and pay for. Arrange for the kids to stay at a sitter for the weekend, pre-book the room, and then come Friday you tell her "Pack a weekend bag. We're going on a little trip." Don't give her any more information than that, and if she persists in demanding answers (and she likely will) you give her a long, thoughtful stare and say, "If you value our marriage, then you will quit asking questions, pack your bag, and get in the car."

This has a number of benefits: a) it shows her that you are competent and capable, both good Alpha traits you might want to whip out a little more regularly. b) It demonstrates that you take this so seriously that you are willing to make all of the arrangements yourself, without consulting her, which will raise a red flag in her mind right there. c) It will demonstrate to her that her MARRIAGE is in jeopardy. The fact that you won't say any more until you get to the hotel/b&b/campground/whatever will keep her nervous, off-balance, and will make her mind automatically look for the Worst Case Scenario.

SO . . . you get her up to that snug little cabin/picturesque Bed & Breakfast/luxury hotel, and you still don't talk -- you ask her to dress for dinner, and then you go out.

Once you are at dinner (someplace nice), then you can talk. You're in a public place, on "a date", and that's a perfectly proper place for a married couple to discuss their sex life.

Then you tell her: "married sex" as she envisions it is not acceptable to you. It's causing you to doubt the solidity of the relationship and her commitment to you, personally. That you find her rejections hurtful and her attitude towards your (mutual) and your (individual) sex lives humiliating. That her attitude is making you doubt yourself as a man, and that is going to have an inevitably profound affect on how you comport yourself as a husband and father. You tell her that you could be out having an affair right now, but that you felt compelled to talk to her about this very serious, very mutual problem instead before you did anything rash. This is you talking to her. What can you (plural) do to fix this unfortunate problem?

No ultimatums. You tell her how you feel, from the heart, and you invoke her assistance in working through this little problem. If she freaks out on you -- possible -- then you are prepared for that, and whatever scene she tries to make in the restaurant. If she breaks down crying and calls you names and makes it all your fault, then you sit their stoically and wait for her tirade to end. If she stomps off angrily, you finish your meal in peace, then retire to the bar for a nightcap before going to bed.

But you'll get a reaction. You'll get a response. The issue will be on the table like a rotting fish head, and until its addressed your relationship will have no hope of running smoothly. She may berate you, she may emasculate you, she may try to humiliate you, but she can't deny that there's a problem. That's what she's doing right now. Because if it was a problem, then when you brought it up she wouldn't be changing the subject.

That's a place to start.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Have you gone through the Men's Clubhouse to see whether any of these things resonate with you: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Or does this apply to your situation? http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

How willing are you to shake things up in your marriage? Because it may take some shaking up for her to come to her senses.

God Bless.


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## SoThisIsIt (Jan 30, 2011)

Chilly - I still look at my wife and think "Wow, what a magnificent person" and I can still see myself growing old with her. Her smile, her eyes, her figure our shared interests, goals, ambitions and beliefs are all great.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I think you'll find three broad types of advice:

1. 180 or threaten divorce and bring this to a head. She'll either make you more important when she realizes she can lose you, or you'll know where you stand.

2. Man up. Which in this case is probably stop being passive, and don't let her emasculate you in whatever ways that is happening. You newfound manliness may start to turn her on. Start to focus on your OWN life - gym, male friends, your own pursuits. This can be combined with #1.

3. Meet her needs and maybe she'll meet yours using the marriage builders needs checklist. 

Personally, I'd go with 1 and 2. But in reverse. Start making your own life that doesn't involve her - gym, sports, friends, hobbies. Things that take you out of the house. There's a concept from Dr Glover of No More Mr Nice Guy - make your life the cake, the woman the icing.

And while you do that, start to let her know that you don't view this marriage as permanent. That you are unhappy, you're making personal changes, and considering your options.


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## SoThisIsIt (Jan 30, 2011)

seeking - I tend to agree with you about the three things that are most likely to be suggested. To what you have suggested - #3 doesn't work, been there, done that. For #2, started that process a year or so ago. I go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week and have spent a good deal of time pursuing my interests. #1 seems to be what I'm wrestling with right now. I'm the type of person that does not make idle threats so I need to come to grips with following through if it does not work out - which I want it to.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

SoThisIsIt said:


> seeking - I tend to agree with you about the three things that are most likely to be suggested. To what you have suggested - #3 doesn't work, been there, done that. For #2, started that process a year or so ago. I go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week and have spent a good deal of time pursuing my interests. #1 seems to be what I'm wrestling with right now. I'm the type of person that does not make idle threats so I need to come to grips with following through if it does not work out - which I want it to.


You'll never know until you try. Don't consider it a threat . . . consider it an observation of what you are likely to do when your patience is gone.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She told you it's not a problem for her. Whether her lack of sexual interest is her own choice or she suffers from a medical or psychological condition, you need to make the problem "her" problem, too. She's getting what she wants out of the marriage whether you get anything or not. At present, she has no reason to change or to seek help.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

SoThisIsIt said:


> seeking - I tend to agree with you about the three things that are most likely to be suggested. To what you have suggested - #3 doesn't work, been there, done that. For #2, started that process a year or so ago. I go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week and have spent a good deal of time pursuing my interests. #1 seems to be what I'm wrestling with right now. I'm the type of person that does not make idle threats so I need to come to grips with following through if it does not work out - which I want it to.


Part of the whole manning up idea is to remove attachment to outcome, sort of buddism, really. It's d*mn hard to do but it is the highest aspiration of leading a higher ideal life. If you get to a place where you state your need, tell her what you are willing to do, without it being a threat, just a statement of fact as noted in a previous post, then you've done what you can do. And the chips will fall as they may. 

It's tough. Do you have a group of guy friends you can lean on if it goes badly?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

You need to change her attitude about you.
You`re just another piece of furniture to her.

CHANGE YOURSELF!!

Get a new hair style
Buy a new cologne
Get some new clothes
Start going to the gym
Start spending more time away from home(New hobby, beach, movies, whatever)
Change your daily schedule around
Pay much less attention to her (Less "I love you`s", less affection in general)
Start being out with friends more often, make sure these friends are texting you/calling you often to see what`s up.

You want to make her wonder what`s going on why you`re doing all of this.
You want to make her feel as if you think of her and care for her less.
The will hit her jealousy bone while making you more attractive as a new man.

Read this...

Married Man Sex Life: Sex Rank

Give it a shot


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Stop talking to her about it for now, and just start working out and getting into good physical shape.

Also Tacoma recommends a fabulous website.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

First of all your primary issue can be summarized this way:
- You have prioritized her above all else in your life
- She has deprioritized you to an extreme degree

And the way you know that is simple. If you say "X is necessary for me to be happy" and she says "I am fine". That translates to: "Your feelings are not important because I know you are going to keep doing most everything I want". 

Read the post on the thermostat - link above. The best thing about managing the amount of "warmth" you radiate at her is that it avoids any type explicit threat. And make no mistake you are radiating warmth, commitment and their twin sister "commitment" by INITIATING saying "ILY", complimenting her, hugging her, buying her gifts, etc. 

And you can cut back on all that slowly and steadily without making any threats. 

Meaning that you can completely stop initiating "ILY". You can even cut back on reciprocating when she says it. This is WAY better than a 180 - which is a hostile extreme - and WAY better than threatening divorce. 






SoThisIsIt said:


> seeking - I tend to agree with you about the three things that are most likely to be suggested. To what you have suggested - #3 doesn't work, been there, done that. For #2, started that process a year or so ago. I go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week and have spent a good deal of time pursuing my interests. #1 seems to be what I'm wrestling with right now. I'm the type of person that does not make idle threats so I need to come to grips with following through if it does not work out - which I want it to.


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## SoThisIsIt (Jan 30, 2011)

A lot of suggestions being made here - I appreciate that. As some have suggested, I have turned to focusing on myself by going to the gym 3 to 4 nights a week (I'm i the best shape of my adult life), have and do pursue my own interests and have slowly withdrawn the WARMTH. It is the withdrawal of WARMTH that led me to my initial questions, "Can intimacy be brought back to our marriage?" and "Am I able to feel intimate with her after such a long time of being shut out, denied and frustrated?" The withdrawal, which has been ineffective, has lead me to ask if it or I can feel the WARMTH again. I wrote three statements this morning that I intend to give her:

1) I need intimacy and sex. It is important to me and critical to our marriage.
2) I am not happy or satisfied with our intimate and sexual relationship, and am unwilling to continue to live a sexless existence devoid of intimacy.
3) Something needs to and will change.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

SoThisIsIt said:


> Chilly - I still look at my wife and think "Wow, what a magnificent person" and I can still see myself growing old with her. Her smile, her eyes, her figure our shared interests, goals, ambitions and beliefs are all great.


You have to rid yourself of this attitude. It's unattractive and holding you way back. Hold her accountable to the standard you hold yourself accountable to. You hold yourself accountable to being a good husband who works hard to meet her needs. With these thoughts in your head, you look to her like a loser and doormat.

Regarding your entire question... You don't want to threaten her with divorce (i.e. Don't say if you wont have sex with me I will divorce you). Reading all these other posts, in your attitude with your wife you want to get her to recognize that SHE is making the choice not to participate in your marriage, and give her what she wants (no marriage). Very different way of discussing things.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

SoThisIsIt said:


> I wrote three statements this morning that I intend to give her:
> 
> 1) I need intimacy and sex. It is important to me and critical to our marriage.
> 2) I am not happy or satisfied with our intimate and sexual relationship, and am unwilling to continue to live a sexless existence devoid of intimacy.
> 3) Something needs to and will change.


All good points, but you need to add one more. You should tell her that she has checked out of this marriage and that it will not work unless she checks back in.

The first three are mostly about you. The one that I added is all about her.


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## siipode (Sep 20, 2011)

This is you talking to her. What can you (plural) do to fix this unfortunate problem?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

SoThisIsIt said:


> Chilly - I still look at my wife and think "Wow, what a magnificent person" and I can still see myself growing old with her. Her smile, her eyes, her figure our shared interests, goals, ambitions and beliefs are all great.


give it time and resentment will make all thoes things fade away and you will be left hurt and bitter.

her cold attitude to whats important to you will eventually change the way you see her.


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