# Red pill and MGTOW



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

As much as people question these groups, recent topics on TAM have proven the exact reason these groups exist. So many divorced people are their own worst enemy, even years after their divorces are final. There is a reason these groups are very popular within the screwed over single dad population. Dads rights matter, no matter who tries to minimize that or even take it away unilaterally, as one poster here suggests. 

This is the exact reason that dads coming off a divorce are far less likely to jump into another relationship. Hypergamy is in full effect, so be careful out there.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> As much as people question these groups, recent topics on TAM have proven the exact reason these groups exist. So many divorced people are their own worst enemy, even years after their divorces are final. There is a reason these groups are very popular within the screwed over single dad population. Dads rights matter, no matter who tries to minimize that or even take it away unilaterally, as one poster here suggests.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the exact reason that dads coming off a divorce are far less likely to jump into another relationship. Hypergamy is in full effect, so be careful out there.


What has happened to make you feel this is true? 

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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Someone makes the unilateral decision to keep their kids from their dad due to virus and social distancing. Gets tremendous support on TAM (of course) for pulling the rug out from her ex. I hope that dad calls his lawyer tomorrow. However, I don’t want to break any rules for talking about another thread here. So if I am, I’ll delete this.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I appreciate your feelings on it and I sympathize with many in the movement.

I'm not part of it or affected by it but I feel bad for those that are.

What do you think some solutions could be?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> Someone makes the unilateral decision to keep their kids from their dad due to virus and social distancing. Gets tremendous support on TAM (of course) for pulling the rug out from her ex. I hope that dad calls his lawyer tomorrow. However, I don’t want to break any rules for talking about another thread here. So if I am, I’ll delete this.


I'm interested. Which thread?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Someone makes the unilateral decision to keep their kids from their dad due to virus and social distancing. Gets tremendous support on TAM (of course) for pulling the rug out from her ex. I hope that dad calls his lawyer tomorrow. However, I don’t want to break any rules for talking about another thread here. So if I am, I’ll delete this.


IIRC, the OP on that thread DID NOT make a unilateral decision to keep her kids from their dad. What she DID do was start a thread sharing her concerns regarding the Coronavirus, asking if others shared her concerns, and asking if her thoughts on possibly asking to temporarily keep the kids with her, with agreement from her ex, during the pandemic. 

I understand you are struggling with your own issues arising from your divorce but please try not to project those issues onto others. Try to look at the picture in front of you with unbiased eyes. 

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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Lila said:


> IIRC, the OP on that thread DID NOT make a unilateral decision to keep her kids from their dad. What she DID do was start a thread sharing her concerns regarding the Coronavirus, asking if others shared her concerns, and asking if her thoughts on possibly asking to temporarily keep the kids with her, with agreement from her ex, during the pandemic.
> 
> I understand you are struggling with your own issues arising from your divorce but please try not to project those issues onto others. Try to look at the picture in front of you with unbiased eyes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


So, let me get this straight. She doesn’t talk to her ex about it, comes on a public forum in support of “limiting” her children’s time with their dad. How is that not unilateral? On top of it, it’s referred to as “visitation” not shared time with their dad. 

Sorry, I’m not projecting. I see this control stuff disguised as ‘best interests of kids’ all the time. Sounds to me that it is in her best interests.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Never mind. I found it. I don't see in her what you do.

It would appear you are possibly taking out your frustration and bitterness from your own situation,(and I'm not claiming your feelings are unwarranted) on her.

I really do not think she fits what you are describing.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> So, let me get this straight. She doesn’t talk to her ex about it, comes on a public forum in support of “limiting” her children’s time with their dad. How is that not unilateral? On top of it, it’s referred to as “visitation” not shared time with their dad.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I’m not projecting. I see this control stuff disguised as ‘best interests of kids’ all the time. Sounds to me that it is in her best interests.


She did say using the word "visitation" was in poor taste and corrected herself.... And her later posts did acknowledge that she would speak with the dad before making such a decision - that is not unilateral. Iirc, she even brought up the option of leaving her kids with the ex but due to circumstances with their living situation and issues with her eldest, she didn't think he'd agree to that. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the projection. You're entitled to your feelings but they certainly aren't facts. 

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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> So, let me get this straight. She doesn’t talk to her ex about it, comes on a public forum in support of “limiting” her children’s time with their dad. How is that not unilateral? On top of it, it’s referred to as “visitation” not shared time with their dad.
> 
> Sorry, I’m not projecting. I see this control stuff disguised as ‘best interests of kids’ all the time. Sounds to me that it is in her best interests.


I come on here all the time and discuss very intimate and private things before going to my wife about it and sometimes this wonderful sounding board helps me realize there wasn't anything to bother with to begin with.

It's Anonymous for a good reason.

She wasn't doing what you are saying. 

She has legitimate concerns that we are all experiencing now and she was not trying to deprive family time. That wasn't her goal.

She doesn't even have that much power in her life but was getting advice and input.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

It could be possible that I misread it. Anything’s possible. But it sure stuck a nerve with me for some reason. Not too many posts , if any, do. This one did.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RebuildingMe said:


> It could be possible that I misread it. Anything’s possible. But it sure stuck a nerve with me for some reason. Not too many posts , if any, do. This one did.


Something to remember is that after a divorce, communication with ex's is often very difficult. It's not like in this sort of situation, talking through all angles of a situation with an ex is difficult at best and impossible at worse. When this is the case, it's often wise to really think things through the issue before bringing it up so that you are sure to have though through as many aspects that you can come up with.

My take on that thread is that this is what the OP is doing. She does not want to keep the children from their father. She wants to protect the children from a very bad illness. 

It sounds to me like she's gotten good input and will end up talking to their father and hopefully come up with a good solution. My bet is that this is a big problem with a lot of families right now. It's tragic.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> It could be possible that I misread it. Anything’s possible. But it sure stuck a nerve with me for some reason. Not too many posts , if any, do. This one did.


It probably struck a nerve because you're in the thick of a contentious divorce. You're in that mental mode, tunnel vision for lack of a better description. High stress situation where your every move is being observed and can be used against you. 

It's not easy but try not base your opinion on all women on a select few. Not only now (while you're in divorce mode) but while dating. 

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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> It could be possible that I misread it. Anything’s possible. But it sure stuck a nerve with me for some reason. Not too many posts , if any, do. This one did.




Using the word Visitation is offensive and I get how that struck a nerve with you. It’s the same for me when men say they have to babysit their kids.... ah drives me nuts. 

Sometimes we are more sensitive about things because of what we are going through and/or went through in life. But when you surround yourself with other “victims” like the red pills and MGTW group... you become more and more delusional and more and more angry, and you see what you want to see which is basically women constantly screwing men over. It’s a bad way to live.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So I read the thread. I am assuming its the one -

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/439873-would-you-limit-parental-visitation-social-distancing.html

I think you might be a little sensitive because of your own situation. Speaking as a man I didn't see anything or anyone on there advocating for keeping kids away from their Dads just a difficult situation with someone looking for help. In fact some female posters came out very strongly against using this as an excuse for keeping kids away from their parents. No doubt there are bad people (both men and women doing this).

*Long diatribe warning, but whatever I am stuck in the house for like 18 months now or whatever so I got time. AND YOU HAVE TIME TO READ IT! *:wink2:

I am not accusing you of anything I write here I am just stating my belief. 

Look there is Misandry and misogyny and both suck. I don't support Redpill because it's stupid. First of all it judges men by their sex count and sees ****ing women (and I use that word for effect because Redpill thinks about it just as crass) as a way to judge ones worth. In a sense it gives this twisted and corrupt view of women the ultimate power over these men. I mean in the one hand they say how awful women are but in the next they judge themselves by how many of them they can manipulate into having sex with them. It's stupid. 

MGTOW, I see no problem with that but I have to be honest haven't looked into it as much. If you don't want to have relationships with women don't it's your life. Enjoy Fortnite on your 75 inch TV. If I was a single guy I would be thinking great less competition. I think they are making a mistake though. It's kind of like throwing the baby out with the bath water as far as I am concerned. I'm married and for the most part I think it has been good for my life. Any difficulties I might have are not because of marriage. Even in my marriage we have difficulties even some very hard ones at times because we are two people trying to live and share a life together. It's not and never was Disney. And you know what if we couldn't get over them we would divorce. But then again I married well, and that was on me. I married a decent person. I also choose someone who had priorities and goals so I know that even if we divorce she will be making her own money she has her own career that she cares about, makes comparable money so I am not going to get screwed. I always stated I am against a spouse being a stay at home parent for a longer then period when the kids are very young. Again that has noting to do with a persons gender, that's about who you marry. If she cheated that would suck, but I am a good husband and there are plenty of other women out there. 

My point is having a bad experience in a relationship is because of who you had a relationship with not the gender of the person you had a relationship with. And I got to be honest some of the *******s some of the men (women too but we are talking about men) who come on her decided to have relationships with have me scratching my head. Look there are people you have fun with and people you marry. If you choose to marry an ******* don't be surprised that they continue to be an ******* when you divorce them. All these movements are big on personal responsibility but they never talk about the personal responsibility of marrying someone who already had a ****-ton of problems. Most of these guys who do that are suffering from White Knight syndrome. 

But I got to be honest I chalk most of that up to no Father in the home (both for men and women). For 50 years men have failed to accept responsibility for this. As I see it a good father stamps that **** out when the kid is 15 and ****ing around with some POS, but even before that he should be talking to his sons and daughters about what they want in a marriage what their role will be if they are a son, what will be important for their husband if they are a daughter. The way bad men think, the way good men think for both. How you shouldn't judge yourself by the amount of people that choose to have sex with you. How as a man you should judge yourself by your honor in doing the right thing, taking responsibility, supporting your family, making your wife your priority (not your car, or your looks, or your game, or you team, how much money you make, or even your job), and generally being a provider (and that means both financially but also emotionally to a certain extent.) Finally if you do that you can be confident about your worth, and if you are confident make no mistake women will flock to you. And this is the guy who your daughter should be looking for. It ain't about playing games or your frame, or it least it doesn't have to be. Besides most wise men don't want a women who can be so easily manipulated at least not to marry, but hey if your life is about ****ing then yes Redpill works. 

That's not to say there isn't some good things. Working hard and making money is good. Being ambitious is good. Taking care of your appearance is good, being confident when you talk to a women is good. But being confident in YOURSELF even if yourself is a nerd; talking to a potential mate and having her respond is a much better thing because it's real and it gives you the potential to have a relationship built on truth. Lifting weights should be done by all men as far as I am concerned as someone who got into it late. There is just something about pushing iron. Crazy but true. Yes ****ing take pride and joy in being masculine but that doesn't mean suppressing your emotions and being tough, it means strong enough to be soft when it is necessary or when it will help someone you care for, with your wife. It means being in control of your emotions. 

Yes it's hard being a man (and I that doesn't mean I am saying it's not also being a women) and it's a ****ing goddamn privilege. Being a man is the most important Job/Role you will ever do and can ever do in your life, and you get the chance to do that every ****ing day. Thank God for that! 

Let's start that ****ing movement. I will champion that to every young man around. 

Finally I have to say from my work, I'm sorry but the Men have got to step it up. I am always constantly impressed by the young women I work with, many of them Mothers, some who I can tell are also having to take too much care of their husbands because of their off handed complaints. They work their asses off, lots of times because have to. Some of them end up doing a lot more work then they should. It is a far smaller pool of men who I see do the same thing. I'm sorry I am just being honest. And if you think I am some kind of modern feminist then you don't read my posts. I think the latest wave of feminism and identity politics and all that is "misguided" to be polite. I could write a whole post about that too. 

What I am is someone who believes in women because I have a good Mother, and good Sisters, and good friends and colleagues who I am with every day and they consistently show me how awesome they are. Even many of the poster here, some who I don't agree with a lot and some who I admire greatly. A majority of women in this country (and probably in the world) are ****ing awesome! Yes they are different then us in general and thank God! That is part of what makes them wonderful. 

What I would say to all these guys in these groups is first - STOP THINKING OF THEM AS A PATH TO ETERNAL HAPPINESS. Second - STOP LOOKING AT THEIR DESIRE FOR YOU AS A JUDGMENT OF YOUR WORTH. Third - STOP LOOKING AT THEM AS *ONLY* A MEANS TO GIVE YOU PLEASURE. Try getting to know them, talk to them, see how they think what they care about, how it's different and how it's the same. If for no other reason that it's fun, but also you can learn from them. You will soon grow to love and respect them if you don't. And you will respect them more if you already do. That is how you find a good partner. They are really one of the best things of this world that God created for all of us. We as men have to stop blaming them for our failures. We ****ing stormed the beaches at Normandy. We ****ing eradicated smallpox. We went to the moon. We wrote Clair De Lune, and The Silmarillion. We need to start acting like men, and that means taking responsibility for this world that we have created. Frankly who cares what women or other men think. Compete, lead, make it better! 

I'm sorry some men have had ****ty times with their wives, but that has nothing to do with all women or marriage. 

Women ****ing Rock!!!

End of one crazy diatribe from someone who has been working nonstop for 10 days and facing the prospect of being stuck the house for the rest of my life.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Also when the dust settles let the other partner give you that extra time with your kids and then reflect at least I have my kids and they remained healthy. Others my not be as fortunate.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> Someone makes the unilateral decision to keep their kids from their dad due to virus and social distancing. Gets tremendous support on TAM (of course) for pulling the rug out from her ex. I hope that dad calls his lawyer tomorrow. However, I don’t want to break any rules for talking about another thread here. So if I am, I’ll delete this.


#1 response from women......"Who hurt you? What happened to you for you make feel this way?"

The reality is Red Pill is truth. It's been around for centuries.
Watch how the inter-sexual dynamics change under these new life brought on by Covid19..

SMV curve will always be the same....
Personally I have no need for MGTOW. I love women too much.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> RebuildingMe said:
> 
> 
> > It could be possible that I misread it. Anything’s possible. But it sure stuck a nerve with me for some reason. Not too many posts , if any, do. This one did.
> ...


Its a pushback against feminism. When one group infringes on another's rights, there is always opposition. I don't see a dime's worth a difference between the two, honestly. They are both hate groups.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> RebuildingMe said:
> 
> 
> > It could be possible that I misread it. Anything’s possible. But it sure stuck a nerve with me for some reason. Not too many posts , if any, do. This one did.
> ...


Its a pushback against feminism. When one group infringes on another's rights, there is always opposition. I don't see a dime's worth a difference between the two, honestly. They are both hate groups.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> #1 response from women......"Who hurt you? What happened to you for you make feel this way?"
> 
> The reality is Red Pill is truth. It's been around for centuries.
> Watch how the inter-sexual dynamics change under these new life brought on by Covid19..
> ...


How do you think inter-sexual Dynamics will change under Covid 19? 

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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> How do you think inter-sexual Dynamics will change under Covid 19?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


I'm seeing some interesting things.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I'm seeing some interesting things.


Like what?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> Like what?


A marked increase in interest from women. I would have to guess as to why.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Just as certain sects of feminism are trying to swing the pendulum too far, Red Pill effectively does the same thing from the other side.

If that which you are endorsing attempts to enforce the wrongs of the past by taking its pound of flesh from the present, then you are not for equality.

Putting lipstick on a pig does not make it a princess.

That said, projection and triggering is a mighty nasty combination. If something elicits a strong emotional reaction, then it is likely one or both. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> #1 response from women......"Who hurt you? What happened to you for you make feel this way?"
> 
> The reality is Red Pill is truth. It's been around for centuries.
> Watch how the inter-sexual dynamics change under these new life brought on by Covid19..
> ...


Are you suggesting that statement is akin to, "There there, darling" with a pat on the head, followed by handing her shopping money?

If so, there is some truth to it in that it likely dismisses the actual problem in favor of a stereotype. 

However, that does not make everything in RP gospel, either. There is plenty of pseudoscience and bovine excrement intermingled with it's truths. 

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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> A marked increase in interest from women. I would have to guess as to why.


I can see women being more forthright with showing their interest in attractive, fit men in times like these. If this is the beginning of the end, might as well try to get it on with a hottie.

I just don't foresee women doing the same for the average shmoe. 

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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > Like what?
> ...


They want your quality baby breeding genes before Armageddon comes.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> I can see women being more forthright with showing their interest in attractive, fit men in times like these. If this is the beginning of the end, might as well try to get it on with a hottie.
> 
> I just don't foresee women doing the same for the average shmoe.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Maybe financially strong shmoes will be getting more attention too?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Its a pushback against feminism. When one group infringes on another's rights, there is always opposition. I don't see a dime's worth a difference between the two, honestly. They are both hate groups.




Feminism was much needed. And it was a push back on misogyny and just plain unequal rights. I understand how some feel that they took it too far. But to me red pill is not making things equal it’s bringing back misogyny.
So instead of everyone meeting in the middle we are creating two opposing extreme groups. It’s stupid and not the answer.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Maybe financially strong shmoes will be getting more attention too?


Maybe but it's too early to tell right now. Once the dust settles on the economic impacts, we'll see who still is "financially strong". 

Based on what I'm seeing right now, I'm thinking it's immediate sexual attraction and gratification that's driving women to be more forward. 

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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> > Lila said:
> ...


Or your stockpile of Quilted Northern


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> Feminism was much needed. And it was a push back on misogyny and just plain unequal rights. I understand how some feel that they took it too far. But to me red pill is not making things equal it’s bringing back misogyny.
> 
> So instead of everyone meeting in the middle we are creating two opposing extreme groups. It’s stupid and not the answer.


That said, I think that the vast majority of western society does not agree with the extremes of either point of view.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Or your stockpile of Quilted Northern


Nothing like a man with a shiny hiny!:grin2:


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Numb26 said:
> 
> 
> > Or your stockpile of Quilted Northern
> ...


Those that can feed and shelter will be the new "financially strong" if things continue they way they are


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Are you suggesting that statement is akin to, "There there, darling" with a pat on the head, followed by handing her shopping money?
> 
> If so, there is some truth to it in that it likely dismisses the actual problem in favor of a stereotype.
> 
> ...


No and no there's not.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> As much as people question these groups, recent topics on TAM have proven the exact reason these groups exist. So many divorced people are their own worst enemy, even years after their divorces are final. There is a reason these groups are very popular within the screwed over single dad population. Dads rights matter, no matter who tries to minimize that or even take it away unilaterally, as one poster here suggests.
> 
> This is the exact reason that dads coming off a divorce are far less likely to jump into another relationship. Hypergamy is in full effect, so be careful out there.


Well, I would say it is understandable to anyone who has had to go through a divorce, possible child custody battle, possible alimony payments....etc. to choose not to be legally, financially, property wise tied to any human ever again and to choose only to date casually. Date, fall in love possibly for as long as she is willing....but never move in together and never legally bind each other together. 
If a separation ever comes....each can just walk away with no issues, no shared property, no shared dwelling, no shared income or accounts.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Its a pushback against feminism. When one group infringes on another's rights, there is always opposition. I don't see a dime's worth a difference between the two, honestly. They are both hate groups.
> ...



Key word "was".


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> IIRC, the OP on that thread DID NOT make a unilateral decision to keep her kids from their dad. What she DID do was start a thread sharing her concerns regarding the Coronavirus, asking if others shared her concerns, and asking if her thoughts on possibly asking to temporarily keep the kids with her, with agreement from her ex, during the pandemic.
> 
> I understand you are struggling with your own issues arising from your divorce but please try not to project those issues onto others. *Try to look at the picture in front of you with unbiased eyes. *
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Oh, my Dear...

Do those unbiased eyes even exist?

Yes, those who have no dog in the fight, well, a mellow maybe, can be acknowledged.

But, even those folks will have preconceived feelings on this, actually on most everything. 

They may have a cooler head. 
I concede that.
Yes, that.

If a person were truly unbiased on any given subject, what weight would you give their opinion?
Are not the most valued opinions, those which have made it through the thorny thicket?

Ground up, and barfed up.......at last. Ugh!

An opinion detached from the present issue being bally-ed about. Um, maybe belly-ed, bellowed about!

MGTOW are those creatures created by their home life, by the village, by interacting with the female sex, by/with society at large, and it often acting small.

The red pill is found and taken readily in at the end of the road for those felt disparaged, abused and misunderstood.

And by/for those men not having the mental equipment needed to handle the really prikly sex possessor.


THRD-


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> As much as people question these groups, recent topics on TAM have proven the exact reason these groups exist. So many divorced people are their own worst enemy, even years after their divorces are final. There is a reason these groups are very popular within the screwed over single dad population. Dads rights matter, no matter who tries to minimize that or even take it away unilaterally, as one poster here suggests.
> 
> This is the exact reason that dads coming off a divorce are far less likely to jump into another relationship. Hypergamy is in full effect, so be careful out there.


I believe you are conflating Father's rights/Men's right in divorce with the other things. 

RP and MGTOW, are frankly about weak men that cannot get or keep a woman interested. 

Yeah they will say that they are not, they are, sorry. 

The reality is that men need to learn not to be weak, not to put people and woman on a pedestal, learn the you are a human being and you deserve to be treated like one. 

That is all. 

Understand your worth, love yourself so you can actually love others, be a strong person, say what you mean, and mean what you say. 

How it ever got to the place it is I have no idea...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> The reality is Red Pill is truth. It's been around for centuries.


Yes there is some truth but it's not the only truth. Just like you can choose to be a leader by strength of force or you can choose to be one through strength of character and inspiration.



> RP and MGTOW, are frankly about weak men that cannot get or keep a woman interested.


100% this.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lila said:


> I can see women being more forthright with showing their interest in attractive, fit men in times like these. If this is the beginning of the end, might as well try to get it on with a hottie.
> 
> I just don't foresee women doing the same for the average shmoe.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Don't be the average schmoe.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lila said:


> I can see women being more forthright with showing their interest in attractive, fit men in times like these. If this is the beginning of the end, might as well try to get it on with a hottie.
> 
> I just don't foresee women doing the same for the average shmoe.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


The irony is that men have been chasing the hottest woman they could get for ages, and since women had no power they had to go along with it.

How many of these so called nice guys want nice women? Nope...they want to be judged by different standards then they are using.

Now that women can do the same they get pissed off.

I tell my boys that they aren't entitled to anything or anyone. Improve yourself and see who is interested, then see if one interests you.

Average schmoes can get average Janes. The issue that a lot of average people (women included these days) think they're entitled to above average people.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> Oh, my Dear...
> 
> Do those unbiased eyes even exist?
> 
> ...


Hey, I didn't say it was easy. I just said "try". 

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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Don't be the average schmoe.


Easier said than done. By definition, the vast majority of us (women and men) are average schmoes. 

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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> sokillme said:
> 
> 
> > Don't be the average schmoe.
> ...


And most people who think they are "above average" really aren't.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> And most people who think they are "above average" really aren't.


Ain't that the truth. Lol

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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> I believe you are conflating Father's rights/Men's right in divorce with the other things.
> 
> *RP and MGTOW, are frankly about weak men that cannot get or keep a woman interested. *
> 
> ...


Yes, the majority are weak. And ill-trained/prepared at home and in high school. Boys are given such mixed messages.
Excel in sports and maybe also at academia.

What of the rest of life?
Boy, keep your head down, and your hands at your sides (maybe in your ripped out front pockets). Boy, let ladies be ladies, you, just be.... afraid.

A few men, those who are really strong and see not the need of any of what is served up to them, by ladies; these men have less interest in women, other than for sex. 
Many are cads.

And a few who give up on women altogether, and go to their own gender for respect, love and sex. 
From what I gather, these men rarely feel uplifted for the effort.
What type of pill should this last set of men take when these relationships fail?

Ah, hopefully, not cyanide.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Yes there is some truth but it's not the only truth. Just like you can choose to be a leader by strength of force or you can choose to be one through strength of character and inspiration.
> 
> 
> 
> 100% this.


Interesting...

I have never believed in the RP BS... It has always been dumb to me. I have always believed that if you treat people well, are interesting, and genuinely want to share your joy with people and seek to see their joy, people will be attracted to you. I don't seek out relationships and never have. I just end up with them. For the past couple years, I politely decline because my life has no room for more romantic partners... Of course, the red pill people would tell me that I was gifted with good genetics, circumstance, blah blah blah...

The reality is that I am just a skinny white guy who isn't very tall. I'm only 5'7" and weigh 130 pounds. I was born with a hairline that looks like it is receding, even though it isn't, and I grew up extremely poor for American standards...

All that said, I am a paid member of a MGTOW forum site. In fact, I pay more than your typical MGTOWer... I regularly donate money to keep their website going. 

Nobody likes to think of themselves as weak. I don't think I am, but if I am, well... that's ok too. 

I don't really like red pill because to me, it misses so much... 
I do like MGTOW though, for one thing: it's focus is self determination. And that is something I can get behind. 

It doesn't really matter where people learn the philosophy of self determination. If they learn it, it helps them. 

And that is why I am a married, polyamorous, MGTOWer.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Just as certain sects of feminism are trying to swing the pendulum too far, Red Pill effectively does the same thing from the other side.
> 
> *If that which you are endorsing attempts to enforce the wrongs of the past by taking its pound of flesh from the present*, then you are not for equality.
> 
> ...


OP...... read my 3rd signature.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lila said:


> Easier said than done. By definition, the vast majority of us (women and men) are average schmoes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Depends on your criteria.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

sokillme said:


> ...
> 
> *Long diatribe warning, but whatever I am stuck in the house for like 18 months now or whatever so I got time. AND YOU HAVE TIME TO READ IT! *:wink2:
> 
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Nice diatribe @sokillme

Several good points.

Took me a while to get around to reading it.:smile2:


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Yes there is some truth but it's not the only truth. Just like you can choose to be a leader by strength of force or you can choose* to be one through strength of character and inspiration.*
> 
> 
> 
> 100% this.


That's what Red Pill is all about.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> That's what Red Pill is all about.


 And sexcount.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> Or your stockpile of Quilted Northern


I saw this today and thought of your comment. Yep. That's the new Alpha.









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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Everyone is throwing out all this MGTOW stuff. 

From what I understand about it...it just boils down to live, date, have sex, have relationships....
just never marry anyone. Never move in with anyone, never have kids with anyone...never legally join your income, accounts, retirement, investments with another person and put yourself in the position of losing your stuff and having a court come in and tell you you must give up half your 401K or pay for another full grown adult...who is no longer in your life. 

Just as simple as that. 
Date...just don't marry or put yourself in a common law marriage situation. 

Unless one has the dream of marriage...that sounds pretty common sense and rational. 
From what I understand many from this view have already been married and had courts and fake "abuse" claims have their kids for the most part taken away and they have to pay alimony. 
As one who believes alimony is 100% immoral and ethical....when 2 adults go their separate ways then each is responsible for themselves and no other adult on earth is responsible to pay them to exist, I can understand paying alimony would make you plan to never marry again. 
Do nothing but date and have different households and finances and incomes and to never go any further than that. 
80 years ago you couldn't do that easily but after the sexual revolution and all the sleeping around, casual sex, and loose values....it is pretty easy.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hinterdir said:


> Everyone is throwing out all this MGTOW stuff.
> 
> From what I understand about it...it just boils down to live, date, have sex, have relationships....
> just never marry anyone. Never move in with anyone, never have kids with anyone...never legally join your income, accounts, retirement, investments with another person and put yourself in the position of losing your stuff and having a court come in and tell you you must give up half your 401K or pay for another full grown adult...who is no longer in your life.
> ...


All that works well until you have kids.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

hinterdir said:


> Everyone is throwing out all this MGTOW stuff.
> 
> From what I understand about it...it just boils down to live, date, have sex, have relationships....
> just never marry anyone. Never move in with anyone, never have kids with anyone...never legally join your income, accounts, retirement, investments with another person and put yourself in the position of losing your stuff and having a court come in and tell you you must give up half your 401K or pay for another full grown adult...who is no longer in your life.
> ...


It is more than that. Some of it drifts into hatred for women, all women, not cool. Some of it drifts of into sleeping around like you are saying... But here is the kicker... 

Any of the guys that actually do this, I mean, if you don't get tired of it at some point there may be something wrong with you. 

Not saying in every case, but a lot. And if you drift off into the pickup artist part of it, I think that is just wrong. 

I have done some of it, not the PUA, but the sleeping around, it gets old. 

I think most people at some point want to be IN LOVE and share their lives with another.

Another part just drifts in to staying away from women all together, no way that I could do that...

I think it is just a maladjusted group of men that are not doing it right... from my perspective.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> It is more than that. Some of it drifts into hatred for women, all women, not cool. Some of it drifts of into sleeping around like you are saying... But here is the kicker...
> 
> Any of the guys that actually do this, I mean, if you don't get tired of it at some point there may be something wrong with you.
> 
> ...


Well all the stuff I've ever seen on it, it was men who used to be married who were screwed in the divorce settlement and have limited custody of their kids. 
It wasn't 20 year olds. 
I think they have normal relations...they just won't marry. So if the woman really wants marriage that relationship is probably doomed. 

I'm not really sure what red pill is....other than Morpheus's option to Neo.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I think what a some of these guys have to get their head around is Women are just people. I know it sounds crazy that they don't think that way but when they were with there wives they were goddesses who they couldn't understand and could do no wrong, and then when those wives divorce them they are demons who are out to eat men's souls. 

At the end of the day maybe you just married and ******* or maybe you were the ******* and she left you. But that doesn't mean that is how it has to be or how it is for everyone. But it's the same kind of extreme thinking.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

If your middle aged (or older like me) you already have your kids, you have your family, there is no reason to marry again. Once bitten, twice shy. 

Would you ever invest your entire life savings into a stock that has a 50/50 chance of going bankrupt? Would you put a loaded gun in your mouth with 3 live rounds in it? That’s marriage and there’s little upside for a divorced male who has his kids already.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> If your middle aged (or older like me) you already have your kids, you have your family, there is no reason to marry again. Once bitten, twice shy.
> 
> Would you ever invest your entire life savings into a stock that has a 50/50 chance of going bankrupt? Would you put a loaded gun in your mouth with 3 live rounds in it? That’s marriage and there’s little upside for a divorced male who has his kids already.



There is statistical truth to this. 

That said, somewhere in the mix of those statistics is the need for personal accountability in mate selection. I would say that a lack of ability to fix ones ‘picker’ inevitably leads some men this direction as well. 

Sure, there are plenty of dysfunctional people...but...

You show me a divorce from a nut job woman, and I’ll show you a man who made the mistake of thinking she was a good selection for marriage. 


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> If your middle aged (or older like me) you already have your kids, you have your family, there is no reason to marry again. Once bitten, twice shy.
> 
> Would you ever invest your entire life savings into a stock that has a 50/50 chance of going bankrupt? Would you put a loaded gun in your mouth with 3 live rounds in it? That’s marriage and there’s little upside for a divorced male who has his kids already.


Yes there is truth in a lot of what you write. 

And there is truth that, for some reason, some of us don't know how to pick the right person to marry. 

I am not sure what the solution is...


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I like this post lots. This basically me. 

I don't know the details of either of these "ideas" and not interested in labels and little interest in the details of either and won't waste time, bother looking into. 

What I do know. I will never chance mixing my assets with another again. And from a little of this I read, none of my feelings is a concern to me to want them. I do. In my life I've had little issue of them wanting me.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> If your middle aged (or older like me) you already have your kids, you have your family, there is no reason to marry again. Once bitten, twice shy.
> 
> 
> 
> Would you ever invest your entire life savings into a stock that has a 50/50 chance of going bankrupt? Would you put a loaded gun in your mouth with 3 live rounds in it? That’s marriage and there’s little upside for a divorced male who has his kids already.




I think whoever makes more money is why there is little upside for divorce. Especially if you aren’t having kids with the person. It isn’t a male or female difference, it’s a Income difference.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Bottom line, it has to be viewed as a business transaction, especially later in life. I just don’t think I’ll be looking for a partner I’d want to go into business with and that’s okay.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

RebuildingMe said:


> Bottom line, it has to be viewed as a business transaction


I think that's how marriage always has been viewed, throughout history, except for the last hundred years or so.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> If your middle aged (or older like me) you already have your kids, you have your family, there is no reason to marry again. Once bitten, twice shy.
> 
> Would you ever invest your entire life savings into a stock that has a 50/50 chance of going bankrupt? Would you put a loaded gun in your mouth with 3 live rounds in it? That’s marriage and there’s little upside for a divorced *female* who has *her* kids already.


Fixed that for ya. 😎


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

The only *upside *to marriage after you already have your kids is if you are getting married as a money grab. I’ve seen this also.
Personally, I will come out of this divorce okay financially, so the desire to never marry again is almost a certainty.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

I was talking about this thread with my girlfriend the other day... She pointed something out that I did not know:. The matrix was, in large part, about transgender. 

I didn't know that until she mentioned it. So, the whole red pill thing comes from a movie created by trans gender women, and it was largely about being transgender. Kind of ironic isn't it? 

Anyway, MGTOW has a lot of people with different views, but the core of it is basically this: "I don't what society says I am supposed to be doing, I am going to live my life to best suit me". 

For people who have had the court system take their stuff and give it to someone else, it means never putting themselves into a position where that can happen again. For people who don't like the anxieties that often come with mixing your life with someone else, that means living alone and only having friends instead of life partners. 

There are also those, like myself, who do not believe that governing bodies(nor anyone else) have the right to tell me who I should or should not love. So, I am polyamorous. 

And yes, I do get flak from some individuals because I am willing to risk finances and freedom in order to live the way I want. Yes, one of my partners could file a false claim against me. Yes, I could get a divorce and lose my things. But those are things that will not crush me to lose. 

I grew up without anything, so I know I can be just fine without any of it. Fear of losing my freedom does not stop me from signing it away every time I re enlist. Fear of death does not stop me from going into combat. 

I am MGTOW because I really don't give a crap about how anyone else thinks I should live my life, certainly not other MGTOWers. I will simply live my life the way I see fit. 

Oddly enough, this seems to make me more attractive. Just last night i had a very attractive Latina woman start flirting with me as we were discussing some of the philosophies taught by Anthony DeMello... 

Everyone always has something to say about the way I live. For instance, I recently gave a homeless alcoholic a couple thousand dollars to help him get started again. He lived with me for a month and I managed to get him sober. The second he left, he went back to drinking. He is a pretty mean drunk, so nobody is willing to talk to him right now. The isolation and feelings of abandonment are scaring the crap out of him right now, which is just something he is going to have to deal with. He is also in a different country and cannot come back because of coronavirus.

I am willing to pay for his lodging for about half a year. Maybe more if it's needed. Most people tell me I am being hustled. But what is the problem? I can support him indefinitely and still grow my bank account. I can pay both of our ways for a year off of what is in my checking account alone, even if I don't get another pay check. So what is the problem? It isn't hurting me financially. It isn't hurting my family. 

Everyone will have some things that they believe people shouldn't do. Some people believe it's wrong for men to refuse to marry. Some people believe it's wrong to support(they call it enable) mentally unstable addicts. Some people believe it's wrong to multiple romantic partners. 

But seriously, who gives a crap?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> The irony is that men have been chasing the hottest woman they could get for ages, and since women had no power they had to go along with it.
> 
> How many of these so called nice guys want nice women? Nope...they want to be judged by different standards then they are using.
> 
> ...


I think the divorce laws have done a lot to change that.

Before a an older man could sweep up a pretty young thing, she'll have a baby with him to cement the connection but, in the olden days, she would have to grow old with him to get benefited materially from the relationship. These days, if a pretty young thing decides that the two of them "have different goals in life" she can leave with the child, child support payments and if she has a good lawyer, some assets of his.

Since my mother has become a widow, she's dated two really nice widowers. Both have adult children. Of course, she's not going to have any more kids that would ruin their father's plans in his will. Not to mention the fact, it looks pretty embarassing when they leave. Poor Clint Eastwoood, whose 40ish wife a few years ago left him because he didn't want to be a part of her reality show "Mrs Eastwood and Friends" and she took off with the University Assistant Coach. Perhaps the moral to that story is, stay in your lane.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Maybe financially strong shmoes will be getting more attention too?


That's an interesting premise. It seems women put a high priority on a stable provider and protector.

I think it's likely. I don't think ladies who genuinely prefer being single will suddenly rush to get a man. But I do think that we will see some sort of values shift. With the last recession it was less cool to consume conspicuously and more cool to shop for deals and leave a smaller footprint, for instance. And a lot of that has persisted.

This time, unless things turn around quickly, I think we'll see certain changes (not sure about how much). People will be happier with quiet, down time. You may see less kids having tons of extra-curriculars. People with bad relationships might improve them or get out. Happy singles might see a glimpse into older age and decide they don't want to be single forever.

And yeah, the type of partner you choose might shift as described above.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Lila said:


> Easier said than done. By definition, the vast majority of us (women and men) are average schmoes.


If we are talking about looks, intelligence, athleticism, and so on yeah I agree. You are born the way you are and there's only so much you can do to change it.

But for finance, I don't think it's hard to stand out from the pack. Look at how many people can't cut a $500 check for an emergency. Lots of people work low wage jobs and scramble to cover regular stuff like rent increases, car repairs, etc.

If you're a single person (no kids), you can knuckle down and get ahead. Do the following for a year:

Upgrade your main job to at least the median if you're not there.
Get a side gig or second job
Get (or be) a roommate
Live frugally

You'll not be spectacular, but you'll have bills under control and $$$ in the bank. And that will make you stand out in a world with so many folks just paycheck to paycheck. It takes no special talent, just hard work and sacrifice.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

RebuildingMe said:


> If your middle aged (or older like me) you already have your kids, you have your family, there is no reason to marry again. Once bitten, twice shy.
> 
> Would you ever invest your entire life savings into a stock that has a 50/50 chance of going bankrupt? Would you put a loaded gun in your mouth with 3 live rounds in it? That’s marriage and there’s little upside for a divorced male who has his kids already.


Who says you have to put everything at risk in a subsequent marriage? That's what prenups are for if you need one.

I decided how I'll approach this issue. Whatever we had before us we keep separate; everything after is 50/50. I'd cover household expenses, have life insurance, and make her the beneficiary of my retirement. No alimony in a divorce. 

If that isn't enough, then she's not interested in building with me and that makes her a poor choice for a partner.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DTO said:


> Who says you have to put everything at risk in a subsequent marriage? That's what prenups are for if you need one.
> 
> I decided how I'll approach this issue. Whatever we had before us we keep separate; everything after is 50/50. I'd cover household expenses, have life insurance, and make her the beneficiary of my retirement. No alimony in a divorce.
> 
> If that isn't enough, then she's not interested in building with me and that makes her a poor choice for a partner.


Well, that's pretty much how it is these days even without a prenup! Assets you had before a marriage are pre-marital assets and are kept by original owners. Assets aquired during the marriage are split 50/50.

I think a lot of men complain about and are against splitting assets _completely aquired during a long first marriage_, because they somehow view them as only theirs and label it as someone taking "half of their stuff". 

That attitude sucks. If it was aquired during the marriage, it should be split in a divorce. Why wouldn't it be? If you didn't think your partner was pulling their weight in the relationship in various ways (which is the only reason I can imagine people would think a 50/50 split isn't fair, right?), then you either should have done something to change that inequity, or ended the relationship when you started feeling that way.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

DTO said:


> Who says you have to put everything at risk in a subsequent marriage? That's what prenups are for if you need one.
> 
> I decided how I'll approach this issue. Whatever we had before us we keep separate; everything after is 50/50. I'd cover household expenses, have life insurance, and make her the beneficiary of my retirement. No alimony in a divorce.
> 
> If that isn't enough, then she's not interested in building with me and that makes her a poor choice for a partner.


ahh, if I need a prenup someone’s trying to tell me not to do it again. Besides, I would imagine a prenup will just ‘hang’ over the marriage like a black cloud. The only saving grace I would ever have if I went back for #3 would be no kids together. That would boost the odds quite a bit IMO.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

DTO said:


> If we are talking about looks, intelligence, athleticism, and so on yeah I agree. You are born the way you are and there's only so much you can do to change it.
> 
> But for finance, I don't think it's hard to stand out from the pack. Look at how many people can't cut a $500 check for an emergency. Lots of people work low wage jobs and scramble to cover regular stuff like rent increases, car repairs, etc.
> 
> ...



I find it sad to read that having a stable job and being financially responsible is now considered "above average". I seem to do it without much trouble and consider myself to be the norm.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Well, that's pretty much how it is these days even without a prenup! Assets you had before a marriage are pre-marital assets and are kept by original owners. Assets aquired during the marriage are split 50/50.
> 
> I think a lot of men complain about and are against splitting assets _completely aquired during a long first marriage_, because they somehow view them as only theirs and label it as someone taking "half of their stuff".
> 
> That attitude sucks. If it was aquired during the marriage, it should be split in a divorce. Why wouldn't it be? If you didn't think your partner was pulling their weight in the relationship in various ways (which is the only reason I can imagine people would think a 50/50 split isn't fair, right?), then you either should have done something to change that inequity, or ended the relationship when you started feeling that way.


Not sure if you agree or disagree with my attitude, but it's strictly to protect myself and my child. For instance, I own a home with a bunch of equity. Even though it's mine separately, I don't want a lady to say, for instance "yeah but we worked on it while together and I deserve some of that". That and the desire to not pay alimony are reasons enough to have a pre-nup.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Lila said:


> I find it sad to read that having a stable job and being financially responsible is now considered "above average". I seem to do it without much trouble and consider myself to be the norm.











40% of Americans don’t have $400 in the bank for emergency expenses: Federal Reserve


Almost 40% of American adults wouldn’t be able to cover an $400 emergency with cash, savings or a credit-card charge that they could quickly pay it off, a Federal Reserve




abcnews.go.com





Not trying to derail here, but the numbers speak for themselves. I was surprised to see it too. A couple of observations:

First, I know nothing about your financial status; you could have a good job and few bills. But that we find this fact surprising points to how much this is about attitude rather than some innate ability. Attitude is much easier to change and you can improve your standing here readily, which is my point to begin with.

Second, there are people who don't thrive professionally, due to the types of jobs out there. I think attitude matters more (at least for a lot of us) but this certainly doesn't help. And I think that those of us blessed to have good or even great jobs can lose sight of this (me included).









Almost half of all Americans work in low-wage jobs


The low-wage workforce is part of every local U.S. economy, but it takes the biggest toll in the South and West.




www.cbsnews.com





Overall, if you live without roommates, are current on bills, and have a rainy day fund, you're looking good.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DTO said:


> Not sure if you agree or disagree with my attitude, but it's strictly to protect myself and my child. For instance, I own a home with a bunch of equity. Even though it's mine separately, I don't want a lady to say, for instance "yeah but we worked on it while together and I deserve some of that". That and the desire to not pay alimony are reasons enough to have a pre-nup.


That's a good point. I too own a home with a lot of equity and I wouldn't be interested in that pre marital equity going to someone else.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

DTO said:


> 40% of Americans don’t have $400 in the bank for emergency expenses: Federal Reserve
> 
> 
> Almost 40% of American adults wouldn’t be able to cover an $400 emergency with cash, savings or a credit-card charge that they could quickly pay it off, a Federal Reserve
> ...


So true. I sometimes take it for granted that not everyone has as well a paying job as I do. I need to count my blessings more often.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I’ll tell you for me, it’s a complete non starter if the woman doesn’t have a career, or at the very least, a job and is independent and self sufficient. If they don’t work and live off of alimony and/or child support, it’s a next.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

RebuildingMe said:


> I’ll tell you for me, it’s a complete non starter if the woman doesn’t have a career, or at the very least, a job and is independent and self sufficient. If they don’t work and live off of alimony and/or child support, it’s a next.


You need to hold your line. It's a complete non starter if it's a woman. Maybe I'm just weird. I don't see the point of Dating if you have no intention of entering a committed long term relationship. I'm slowly softening on that but it still sticks in my throat. 
Oh and also if She's still got it is watching, I'm not interested in men either.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

RebuildingMe said:


> I’ll tell you for me, it’s a complete non starter if the woman doesn’t have a career, or at the very least, a job and is independent and self sufficient. If they don’t work and live off of alimony and/or child support, it’s a next.


Mostly agree - I'm not hung up on what she has or (by extension) what she does. This is because it is hard to get ahead especially when you have kids (as do most women in my age range). For me it's about drive and attitude: will she contribute when she can, is she committed to self-sufficiency, does she strive to improve herself.

I dated someone (briefly) who was struggling yet didn't strive to improve herself.. It sucked for multiple reasons - never again.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Someone makes the unilateral decision to keep their kids from their dad due to virus and social distancing. Gets tremendous support on TAM (of course) for pulling the rug out from her ex. I hope that dad calls his lawyer tomorrow. However, I don’t want to break any rules for talking about another thread here. So if I am, I’ll delete this.


If the reason for divorce was related to recklessness then the spouse who was stable should do everything to protect the children from the reckless one. Some individuals are not really worth having children with or even having a relationship with. but once you realise your mistake (be it too late) you need to protect your children from such a person, (male or female) It is not about gender but about behaviours. 

In UK there are groups that campaign for rights of fathers. Nothing wrong with that as long as they recognise the rights of mothers too. But we need to accept that there are a lot of women who use pregnancy as a tool
1 to trap a man into marriage
2 to get social benefits
3 to get housing from councils 
4 To avoid having to look for a career or a job

The man that she has sex with is as foolish as she is in that he should be using a condom till h is sure he wants babies. Sex causes babies and even the village idiot knows that. So we have these issues because both men and women are foolish. The way round it is to charge them exorbitant amounts when they was courts to sort their affairs out. Paternity costs should be very high and not be paid by the state. Let those interested pay.


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