# Abuse of Process



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Still observing. Still @50,000 feet. Still discouraged.

I hear plenty of good things. I hear things like this, "I know I've always loved you, but I haven't always acted like it."

This is followed by the demand that I get off this forum. I negotiate the shared account. Win = win agreement? Right?

Not really. Instead of practicing the forgiveness she preaches is in her heart, the joint account is shut down because I violated her trust. I freely admit. I was skeptical. I held back. Sadly, I was proven largely correct. The attempt to isolate me from support was made. I resisted. We hammered out an "interim" type of agreement that neither of us liked.

She started to backtrack on that. I told her to fvck off. Yes, I used those words. I'm not about to give her the veto on my friends that I've sought (for both of us) for six years.

She came to the table and wanted to reconcile.

Again... we had a "good" 10 days to 2 weeks. She's had many issue with her business and friends letting her down. I've been supportive. I've been struggling with my daughter. She's been supportive. She really has.

We went out last night. I sing karaoke. I'm good. She's been suggesting wardrobe changes and song selections. I'm ok with this. I'm hoping we can share the activity. I did a Hootie & Blowfish number. It was actually pretty ok. I could tell by the audience reaction.

Her reaction? "It was flat"

I responded. "I'm starting to get aggravated now. I'm changing this formula so we can share this activity and get close. I'm not doing this for harsh judgement."

(You see, I can bring down the house anytime I want. I don't need her approval.)

She says, "Did you ever consider the fact that you just aren't that good.?"

So, the pattern continues.

A week or two of good times, good vibe, good sex, and those feelings you could conquer the world together and it will all be ok.

Then, the encroachment. As pidge says,.... emasculate him, cut him down, make him feel bad about him so he'll stay.

Sadly, the reverse is true.

Continued abuse ensures we will not make it.

No matter how much I love you Janie.

As I said on text today, "I am not able to fix mean."

And I won't try.


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## coachman (Jan 31, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Still observing. Still @50,000 feet. Still discouraged.
> 
> I hear plenty of good things. I hear things like this, "I know I've always loved you, but I haven't always acted like it."
> 
> ...


I will say this as eloquently as I can..

What a cvnt


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

coachman said:


> I will say this as eloquently as I can..
> 
> What a cvnt


It hurt. No doubt about it.

The work I've done on myself has been to stop the volcanic type of eruptions such a hateful comment would get in the past. To stop the abusive blameshifting profanity and aggressive retribution.

I wasn't able to remain detached, but I didn't blow.

I took her back to the house - without yelling.

Went to the basement to watch a movie (Damn, I love Secretariat) with my daughter.

I invited her to join us.

She went back to her apartment.

Now she wants to know if I want to talk.

I asked her, "How were your comments helpful"?

You see, abused broken people need to put their partners "in their place"

We cannot be getting attention and accolades. That's not about them. The world must be about them.

So, they will employ whatever means are necessary to put us in our place.

I'm not up for that.

AND... I'm not up for going over there to smooth things over. As I said, I'm not able to fix mean.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Was she drinking?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Was she drinking?


No

I was just mean.

Sadly, not all that uncommon.

You have no idea how much I WANTED to post that things were better.

But, being superstitious, I didn't dare.

Been down this road way too often.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

You were?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> You were?


My bad - typo.

I was writing, "It" was just mean spirited.

It really was. She went on to accentuate her point that I should try songs that do not require vocal range.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

She does this all the time? Is it low self esteem and jealousy of your confidence? What did she say when you asked if the comment was productive?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> She does this all the time? Is it low self esteem and jealousy of your confidence? What did she say when you asked if the comment was productive?


Said she did not wish to discuss this via text. If I want to talk, I'm to go over there.

I countered with:

"So, if I hurt you, I'm to seek you out to apologize. If you hurt me, I'm to seek you out to apologize"

It usually takes 10 days/two weeks after a major "connection" for this stuff to start.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I agree with not discussing it via text. Don't get into the triangle though.

"I'm not ok with going over to your place so you can apologize to me"


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I agree with not discussing it via text. Don't get into the triangle though.
> 
> "I'm not ok with going over to your place so you can apologize to me"


I agree with the "no text" part.

But, we have an agreement that we will talk within 24 hours of a falling out. This has always meant me initiating contact.

I wanted to let her know I won't be doing it.

I am not able to fix mean.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I didn't think you wanted to "fix" her at all. Is she financially secure on her own?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I didn't think you wanted to "fix" her at all. Is she financially secure on her own?


Of course not.

That's why she was telling me earlier in the day that she was going to start cleaning houses to make ends meet.

She figures that divorced middle-aged men are her target market. And, she's even going to do laundry and start a crock pot dinner so they can feel "cared for" as part of her idea.

I dryly remarked I would have appreciated that sort of care.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

On a humerous note, I warn Canguy66 about "Day 100" with his new squeeze.

I can't even make it past Day #10


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I can't even get to day 10, but that's ok too. Your commitment and moral values will be rewarded someday. I have posted the standers affirmation on Locke's and Muskrat's thread for a reason. It doesn't mean that you will R, but it's a commitment to yourself that you will do what you know is right.

You can go to bed tonight and every other night for that matter at peace with yourself. You don't need Janie to be there to be ok because you know you are doing the right thing and that you aren't losing the battle due to anger, lack of self control and many other things that a lot of us on here struggle with.

You are ok with yourself and that's all that matters!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I can't even get to day 10, but that's ok too. Your commitment and moral values will be rewarded someday. I have posted the standers affirmation on Locke's and Muskrat's thread for a reason. It doesn't mean that you will R, but it's a commitment to yourself that you will do what you know is right.
> 
> You can go to bed tonight and every other night for that matter at peace with yourself. You don't need Janie to be there to be ok because you know you are doing the right thing and that you aren't losing the battle due to anger, lack of self control and many other things that a lot of us on here struggle with.
> 
> You are ok with yourself and that's all that matters!


Finally


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

So...just curious...how many 10-day good stretches are you going to have? You see the pattern, I would assume you even anticipate it...so...how long are you going to keep playing into the same old song-and-dance? Or have you just accepted her and these conditions as they stand?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SoVeryLost said:


> So...just curious...how many 10-day good stretches are you going to have? You see the pattern, I would assume you even anticipate it...so...how long are you going to keep playing into the same old song-and-dance? Or have you just accepted her and these conditions as they stand?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not going over there.

So, it's possible this was the last one.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

It's not the last one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SoVeryLost said:


> It's not the last one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe not.

I'm observing.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

You lack the conviction because you love her. 

Enough will never be enough for you. 

You will be observing for a very long time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Without sounding harsh.

"Where are those 2x4's" ??


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

Conrad:

You have the patience of Jobe !!


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

SoVeryLost said:


> You lack the conviction because you love her.
> 
> Enough will never be enough for you.
> 
> ...


I think I pointed that out to him a while ago...

To her, he is no different then any of the other exes she hangs around still.

Other than his continuous need to learn off of her "mistakes"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SoVeryLost said:


> You lack the conviction because you love her.
> 
> Enough will never be enough for you.
> 
> ...


Perhaps.

I have to be able to face myself in the mirror.

What you didn't see was the conversation I had with my daughter today and the fabulous motorcycle ride we had in the bright sunshine. Who do you think the catalyst was for our bond?

Did she have something to teach me? Oh, yes indeed.

Am I grateful? Oh, yes I am.

My cup overflows with abundance.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

2x4s have no effect because the person in need of one cannot see the reality of their situation as it exists. They are blinded by emotions that negate the possibility of viewing matters objectively. No lumberyard in the world could ever hold enough of them. They are ineffective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Without sounding harsh.
> 
> "Where are those 2x4's" ??


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SoVeryLost said:


> 2x4s have no effect because the person in need of one cannot see the reality of their situation as it exists. They are blinded by emotions that negate the possibility of viewing matters objectively. No lumberyard in the world could ever hold enough of them. They are ineffective.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And who among us can make that call for another?


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Oh, Conrad.

Out of deep and great respect for you, I will somewhat bite my tongue in my response.

If I'm walking on the sidewalk and a passerby with a dog stops as our paths cross and his dog sh!ts on my foot, he's taught me to keep walking when a dog stops near me.

Find another catalyst. This one isn't helping and isn't healthy. You're just afraid to admit that because that means you have to face the reality that whatever you two had in the past just isn't working anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Conrad said:


> And who among us can make that call for another?


I'm not making any calls for you. From what you have said it's simply clear that your judgment is clouded when it comes to your own situation. 

I always read your posts and wonder what you would have to say to the person if it were someone else writing what you do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

SoVeryLost said:


> Oh, Conrad.
> 
> Out of deep and great respect for you, I will somewhat bite my tongue in my response.
> 
> ...


You also hold a lot of respect in this forum as well.

You have openly admitted to enjoying being able to help others on here with your experiences.

Is there a part of you, if even subconsciously that feels you would no longer have that "foundation" to base your wisdom on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SoVeryLost said:


> I'm not making any calls for you. From what you have said it's simply clear that your judgment is clouded when it comes to your own situation.
> 
> I always read your posts and wonder what you would have to say to the person if it were someone else writing what you do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I want to put it out there because I'm human too.

Did you see what I wrote about my daughter?

My head's on straight and I realize that I'm rewarding her mean behavior simply by not ditching her.

I'm "lifting" and detaching. I could give you a play-by-play, but it's not helpful.

Of course I'm losing hope. How could I not be?

What she did last night was disgraceful.

If I really thought she was correct - instead of just broken and hateful?


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

The truth is, a play-by-play isn't necessary. We can all guess how it transpired. The same way it's going to again a couple of weeks from now. I'm exhausted for you. You've given so much to everyone here. I just want to make things good and right for you. But I can't own your situation - you have to get to the point where you'll see her as she is and tell yourself you've had enough. I just worry you never will. And that makes me sad for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You guys should be more appreciative. If he hadn't walked down this path he wouldn't have been able to help any of you.

Think about it. 

We teach what we most need to learn and he is no exception to this rule. I for one have faith that he knows what he's doing. From personal experience I know these things can't be rushed. It takes time to detach, heal and learn. There are no shortcuts. The journey is just as important as the destination.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

I'm extremely appreciative of Conrad. I think everyone here would say the same. Had he not challenged me the way he had when I first arrived here, I'd still be walking around with my eyes wide shut. 

He just seems to "get" all of us, so subsequently it's hard to see him struggle with his own demons.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

SoVeryLost said:


> He just seems to "get" all of us, so subsequently it's hard to see him struggle with his own demons.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah but don't you see this is how it works. Those who are on the path to enlightenment first see it in others then themselves.

The fact that he 'gets' all of you is only because he's just a bit ahead in this process. The only ones who get this are those who have suffered this type of pain.

This really is a good thing. I've personally learned more from helping others than I did in all my years in therapy. Seriously.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SoVeryLost said:


> The truth is, a play-by-play isn't necessary. We can all guess how it transpired. The same way it's going to again a couple of weeks from now. I'm exhausted for you. You've given so much to everyone here. I just want to make things good and right for you. But I can't own your situation - you have to get to the point where you'll see her as she is and tell yourself you've had enough. I just worry you never will. And that makes me sad for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


SVL,

I wasn't born this way.

I stumbled on this forum in August of 2010 - from SNOOPING

I was as needy and pathetic as any nice guy husband on here. I truly love these guys. Of course, I won't name them because I would leave one of them out and they'd wonder why they weren't included on the A list of "needy and pathetic" nice guys

I was CERTAIN my wife had to go to therapy because we were destiny's darlings. I mean, this attractive vivacious high-spirited irish gal simply had to be my soul mate - right? She was hotter than July, smart, quick-witted, sarcastic, and overtly sassy.

Couldn't live without her.

You think she didn't sense my weakness?

Imagine being her now.

Her world has been turned - literally - on its head.

I could walk - tomorrow - into a relatively easy life. Many women at work and elsewhere have made it abundantly clear that the changes in my bearing are overwhelmingly attractive and enduring.

What's the rush?

I remember my personal "rock bottom". November of 2010. It took me a full year. With the help of counselors and TAM friends, that year concluded with me recognizing my own blame shifting and anger. My head in my arms at work... sobbing uncontrollably at the piece of shix I realized I was.

I was fully awake.

I see people talk all the time about the "next one"

Like hell.

I am going to learn every single thing I can about what a pathetic codependent piece of excrement I was before I even THINK about something else. Much less something else with kids.

Yes, I'm observing.

Yes, I still approach each day with hope.

Yet, with each let down, I'm "less down" than the time before.

If you see my thoughts about detaching and "lift", you'll see where I'm heading with this.

Of course I love her. I likely always will.

Does that mean I'm like James Garner in the Notebook reading his life story for 10 seconds of recognition every 2 months or so?

It might mean that today.

I guarantee you it won't mean that forever.

Life is wonderful.

There truly is no rush.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

I can't understand, but that is my own problem.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Everyone makes their own time limit to detach. We will know when that time is. Won't we?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SoVeryLost said:


> I can't understand, but that is my own problem.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck on your journey.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In time, I think you will.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Everyone makes their own time limit to detach. We will know when that time is. Won't we?


What takes one person six months may take another six years.

And - just for you SVL - my current state of mind indicates barring something truly amazing, I'll be much closer to 6 months than 6 years.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Conrad said:


> In time, I think you will.


No. I am not like any of you. The longer I participate on TAM the more clear that becomes. But your stories intrigue me, and that's why I stay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SoVeryLost said:


> No. I am not like any of you. The longer I participate on TAM the more clear that becomes. But your stories intrigue me, and that's why I stay.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't be so sure

Life has a way of being very humbling.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

What fascinates me is the ability of so many of you to love and to trust and to so fiercely stand by your partners. I've never felt that -- not for or from anyone. It's so commonplace around here. It boggles my mind. Does that really happen? Huh. It's so foreign to me.

Anyway, enough on that from me. It's your journey. 6 months, 6 years, or 6 decades ... It's your journey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

SoVeryLost said:


> What fascinates me is the ability of so many of you to love and to trust and to so fiercely stand by your partners. I've never felt that -- not for or from anyone. It's so commonplace around here. It boggles my mind. Does that really happen? Huh. It's so foreign to me.


It really happens when you are able to see the little child in another person. It's very hard, sometimes impossible to not love that child no matter how much the adult in that person hurts you. It's okay and healthy to walk away, but the love doesn't die. That's why when they show you glimpses of the child again, you can fall back very quickly. If you are a 'fixer/rescuer' personality, you're pretty much f***ed for life. It doesn't go away unless you're self-aware 100% of the time which is quite impossible.

It's not a bad thing. It's what true love is based on. The ability to love the vulnerable side of an otherwise functional adult human.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Conrad,

You said it best yourself: "I can't fix mean"

No you can't.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

Conrad said:


> On a humerous note, I warn Canguy66 about "Day 100" with his new squeeze.
> 
> I can't even make it past Day #10


Conrad, very sorry things are not progressing the way you'd hoped. It has been good to see you two show some promise after you've spent to much time helping others. 

One of the most difficult steps I've had to take in my process is to realize I was flogging a dead horse. I felt I tried everything possible, both before and after the separation.

Sometimes the best thing to do is to accept we have to let go. Love is one thing, a healthy dynamic is quite another. Only you can decide what is right for you.

In my case, things continue to go well with the new woman in my life. I am realizing I need to gear back a bit and remember to enjoy the courtship. It's kind of like driving a car down a road. I just want to slow down and enjoy the scenery, but I am very comfortable with the destination.

I wish you the very best.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I am headed out with my children.

We are going to sing.

We are going to sing well.


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