# Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions plz



## Derryn Hunch (Feb 25, 2014)

*Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions plz*

Hey,
Several years ago, I made the mistake of confronting before getting my head straight and gathering all available evidence. The result of course was a "mass sanitize and delete evidence" campaign the next morning - dunno whhere my head was at but I am still unable to comprehend how on earth I managed to just totally not even think of the obvious things immediately there and then that night while she promised her version of events to my nieve face...

Shock I guess. Inexplicably, I didn't immediately demand access to her work laptop (email, office communicator) or blackberry (sms's of course seperate to her private phone) right there and then on the spot... Let alone have the bloody sense to commandeer her "old" phone, which I had discovered all be it unndeniable but far from telling evidence on. I could have forensically recovered so so much had I known then what I know about that stuff now  

Point is, I basically gave her the opportunity to destroy, wipe, delete and remove to the pages of unrecoverable history every last bit of evidence of the affair in the next 24hrs, and being a data recovery/forensics expert - she didn't mess around in ensuring the job was done well. 

Like many, I am still suffering massive triggers and basically ptsd crazyness now due to being smart enough to know when things don't add up and the weight of the facts known are sitting firmly against her story, well... Shame on me if I don't finally take off the rosey coloured glasses and at least call bull**** on what I see is the likely reality here.. 

After months of my suspicion (to the point of obsessive searches every time she left the house) starting from the week we moved in together (the affair began pretty much the week before we moved in together as it turns out - as evidence from phone bill records I have since pulled) - to the day I finally found the evidence 6 months later (timeline late may 2011 to confronting on Nov 14 2011) when I found her recently replaced for upgrading to newer model Galaxy S2 stashed away in the back of her dresser draw, I finally found the evidence to justify my gut feeling and maniac behavior. Thank god I wasn't really crazy!

Although deleted from primary call/sms logs, I could see a number that had appeared multiple times in the secondary sms log. So, clearly deleted and the only number of such circumstances... So it was obvious that there had been at least one month that I could see at that point of sms's from that number purposefully deleted. Unfortunately thew was no text remains - so apart from seeing the number of sms's (approx 50 in last 4 weeks) - I had nothing. Called the number, confirmed a male voice with south african accent and then waited for the missus to return home from the music gig she was out with friends at that night. It was soon to finishh and I expected she would be home within 20/30mins... So I waited. 

Shortly though, she calls me to tell me she was going to stay out a little longer etc... When I gave her the good news that she best come home instead, we needed to talk. I didn't tell her what the problem or issue was at this point though, as I was at least thinking clearly enough to keep her in th dark until I hit her with the evidence - rather than let her think up a cover story or contact this POS on her way so as to cover their tracks form a story etc. Just wish that sense of mind had been a little better than that though ...damn! 

So went through my confrontation and teeth pulling for admission plan... A few questions I had answers to, a "lets call the number and see what happens" type plan include in that (which got the admission finally that it was a guy from work and they were just friends blah blah and it was summed up with a nice little sugar coating that I took hook line and sinker at the time - "I deleted the messages cos u are so paranoid and I didnt want u to think the wrong thing so I just decided to hide the fact that despite you being perfectly accepting of the fact that I have 4-5 very good male friends that u have never had a problem with before, I just decided that you would have lost your **** for no reason previously evidenced about his guy and that's why I kept my communication with him secret..." Which I swallowed like a gullible sucker  

Turns our the little break up we had for a 5 days in July (15th 2011 weekend) was smack bang in the middle of their most intense period of communication - which I now see is textbook events timeline for a developing affair relationship that basically turns the WS against the BS... And I asked her back then in a very diplomatic way many times, hoping she would see that I was calm, rational and communicating honestly with her like should be done in a relationship, and just give me the bad news so at least I was then able to put reason to the out of the blue split and rather than hassle her to try and fix things, I would have at least had a reason to accept for our relationships sudden demise, and possibly just let it go. She was adamant that she and I were over by the Sunday night (split happened wed night and I went to stay with mates for a few days to allow her to think and consider if she did still love me... Another familiar theme you all no doubt know!) But events over the weekend (i caught her out lying about the fact she was with a male sat night cos her phone pocket dialed me as they were driving!) And the cover story that was in turn supported by two of her toxic to our relationship (i hates them they hated me from day one) friends had me living in blissful denial about the incident and choosing to just accept her story and be happy that I finally came to my senses and came home to insist that we try and sort things out - which after much groveling and patheticness on my part, she eventually promised to give her all and effort towards also. Well... Phone records show that not only was there indeed someone else in the picture at the time of that July split, they didnt miss a single beat in their communications pattern after this "defining moment" - and sms records show that there was in fact slightly more than 550 sent by her in the following half of July and all of August... June/july same time frame was about 500 sms's .... So clearly she hadnt even attempted to break it off at this point... 

They worked in the same office... So saw eachother daily where they would have lunch and coffe together sometimes several times a day - and when working at their seperate desks, would make do with office communicator chat (like msn/fb chat - live, open real time chat program that runs via exchange/outlook basically) and of course email and work mobile phones. 

Over the entire time, aside from the office/workplace communications (which I can't see as the chat logs were deleted as were emails, then the exchange backups requested for deletion citing "full data file, housekeeping needs" as her reason to the admins...) There was about 750-800 smses sent by her to him (and apparently he sent her many more than she replied to etc she says) plus her work phone (she admits there was also smses on that, but again I couldn't see any details due to my haste and the fact it's a work account which I can't access records of) plus words with friends that unbeknownst to me at the time, was not being played obsessively due to her love of scrabble, rather it was the love of it's covert message system and it's perfect pass off if I asked who she was messaging with "no one, playing scrabble!" As she would flash the phone toward me and show me a scrabble game in action. Bah. So angry at the betrayal of things like that... But moving on 

What I would like to hear from you guys is, given the above details, the volume and ease of access to communication and in person face to face time they had in this timeline and the things like complete deletion of all sms message email content and history (which to me says "you deleted it cos it was of a highly inappropriate nature... Cos there is no reason to delete innocent friennly banter, no matter how much volume ... And no one elses messages were deleted so it wasn't a case of running out of space on ur laptop/phone!") Plus a few other significant incidents that show development of the relationship to a point where it reached that point of her being in the fog so deep that our relationship did the textbook breakdown with textbook script - I aren't sure how I feel anymore /still love you line.... Am I right to call a firm bull**** on her story that they were: 

Just good friends
They might have sent a few flirty messages sometimes
But
They never did anything - nothing, nada... Just good friends who had pet names for eachother and that is ALL.... ?

She insists and has maintained since the incident/confrontation in Nov 2011 that is the honest truth, and stuck firmly to her story - which has more holes than a fishing net imo... And has even gone as far as to say "i've told u everything, I don't know why o deleted the only evidence that if it is how I say it was would exonerate me and I am not going to just tell you something happened when it didnt to appease you. Nothing happened, get over it!" Time and time again ever since... 

There are other. Little red flags that I will elaborate on if there are those of you who are on the fence with this one being an EA or PA... But your opinions appreciated... 

EA or was this almost certainly a PA in your view, to the point where I should accept nothing less than a confession of one in this timeline letter from her?


----------



## Derryn Hunch (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

Apologies for the grammar/paragraph structure, typed that whole thing on my HTC phone.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*



Derryn Hunch said:


> Apologies for the grammar/paragraph structure, *typed that whole thing on my HTC phone.*


Damn. Between your post (haven't read it all yet) and ^that, I'd say that you're a masochist.


----------



## Derryn Hunch (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*



GusPolinski said:


> Damn. Between your post (haven't read it all yet) and ^that, I'd say that you're a masochist.


LOL :rofl: yeh I'm ashamed at the sentence structure in that post - a result of being unable to see the whole leading paragraph due to limited screen size


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

Not seeing any mention of kids. How old are the two of you? How long have you been married?


----------



## Derryn Hunch (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*



GusPolinski said:


> Not seeing any mention of kids. How old are the two of you? How long have you been married?


We got engaged Feb 2012 (yeh crazy I know, I was still waaay in the bliss of denial fog at this stage I can only assume) and married Nov 12. I bought the ticket, so I gotta ride the ride I know... But that insane fact aside, I would like to try and get past this and work on strengthening up the marriage we are now in, which is moving from strength to strength apart from the times I trigger and stew angrily on this.

It's a classic case of "as long as I feel like your still lying to me, then I can't completely accept that you really are in this marriage with everything it should be. Married people communicate. Married people don't lie to eachother..."

That's a side issue though really... I'm not asking if I should have got married or if I should divorce her right now... I'm asking if my feelings and reasoning of facts above is logical and justfied in my belief this went Physical/sexual - and therefor not accept anything less than admission of such in this letter. I either have to accept her timeline letter as fact or fiction - and move on from there. There is no evidence left and like everyone else, I'm tripping up on what I don't know and can't prove. Missing the peices of the puzzle. So I need to accept that she is being totally honest with me from here on, or I need to act


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

One can get a good idea of the future by looking at the history. And her history is poor, very poor. So, get ready for an interesting life.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

IMO you're not being paranoid. If her comms w/ other men were indeed platonic, there would be no need to hide them from you.

I find myself saying this more and more often here lately...

No kids? Run! GTFO!


----------



## CASE_Sensitive (Jul 22, 2013)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

You could always request a polygraph.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

*Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions plz*

Lying, cheating, gas lighting, rug sweeping...

Yeah, I'm sure she's being honest.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

If you are in the US, you do not need a reason to divorce. If I were you one thing I'd seriously consider is filing for divorce. You don't have to give her any reason at all. If she complains (and she will, because I'd bet she's not getting any promises of support if she leaves you) just tell her to come clean, and no, you are not going to tell her what you know and what you don't know.

The odds are that something bad is happening. Note that everyone who has posted so far thinks that. And so does your gut feeling.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*



Derryn Hunch said:


> ......... that is the honest truth, and stuck firmly to her story - which has more holes than a fishing net imo... And has even gone as far as to say "i've told u everything, I don't know why o deleted the only evidence that if it is how I say it was would exonerate me and I am not going to just tell you something happened when it didnt to appease you. Nothing happened, get over it!" Time and time again ever since...
> 
> There are other. Little red flags that I will elaborate on if there are those of you who are on the fence with this one being an EA or PA... But your opinions appreciated...
> 
> EA or was this almost certainly a PA in your view, to the point where I should accept nothing less than a confession of one in this timeline letter from her?


I'll be honest Derryn, this is the first time I have read through a post like this ( I read all of it) and not separated the comments and responded with the relevant advice that I would personally give. 

Why? because I'll not be arsed with the details - get the fvck out of that and do yourself a favor. I'm, I would would assume, a 'vet' on here and my 'vet' advice is that's she fking you over from top to bottom

Don't waste another second of your life on it 

You already know what is what is here so learn and move on


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

You knew all this before you got engaged or married her. Really why would she ever be truthful now as she has been rewarded for what she did. She has no fear of consequence and you already know inside it was much more than what she told you. 

The whole evidence story is now a futile discussion and rehashing the woulda/coulda at this point is useless. The fundamental problem is you don’t believe her and you never will. She has told the story so many times now a polygraph is useless as in her head she probably does believe it now. 

Even if she told you everything you wanted to hear tomorrow, then all your going to do is just question everything about her more because she hid this for so long from you. If your looking for an excuse to get out of the marriage just get out because just about everything you wrote sounds more like your looking for a reason to go than the quest for the truth to truly move on.

If you didn’t get the answers you wanted before you got married, it’s a little late to hope for them now.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

I don't know what more you need. It's a fact that she never respected you or the marriage and had help with her affairs. She lied and cheated before and during your relationship with her.

There isn't really anything you need to discuss with her except when she's leaving. That's about it.


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

Save yourself untold hours of agony and simply assume it was a PA, and make your decisions based on this. Tell her you assume it was a PA. With all traces of evidence gone she could string you along with trickle truth or outright lying for years.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

I'm in a very similar position. Yeah PA, assume it is so. And yeah, get over it or leave. I suggest leave and find someone more trustworthy. You will probably never get the truth...can you move on as a couple knowing that?


----------



## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

Personally, I wouldn't bother. Use the energy and run. Especially with no kids.


----------



## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

how do you know that she has ever stopped contacting the OM?

If you had an affair, would she want to know?

has she been tested for stds?

Why did you stay with her? you will never get the truth. 

When you were gone,(for the several days) they probably had more sex than you would want to know.

How do you know that she has not taken this underground? Does she still work with him? Have you told the OM's wife about the number of text messages?

PA for sure. 

Run and run fast.


----------



## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

Sounds like an EA at least, but probably a PA. 

If someone deletes something, they sure have a reason to do it. 

the vast majority of these stories (all, at least from my memory) that start with "did she/he have an affair?" generally end up, 20 pages later lamenting how they finally know the truth. Your story could be unique, but YOU are the best judge to know when something is off.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

*Re: Have requested "timeline/details/truth" letter from WS - would like some opinions*

So, you want to know whether we think this was a PA.

I do, yes. Too many texts, too much deception, too much opportunity.

Yet, you married her. What to do now? If she admits this was a PA, will you be satisfied? What then? Unless you tell us otherwise, I'll just assume that you just want the truth and that you'll stay with her and try to work it out.

But if she hasn't confessed by now, she likely won't. You've got 3 options as I see it.

1 - Tell her you believe she had a PA and you are no longer able to accept her lying about it. If she will confess the truth, you feel that you can get beyond what happened, but not otherwise. If she doesn't confess or take and pass a poly, you'll be divorcing her.

2 - Accept that you made mistakes in the process. Accept that you married her when you probably shouldn't have. Try to put this behind you, get counseling to help you, and work on your marriage. Continue to monitor her as you feel necessary.

3 - Divorce her unconditionally.


My opinion? Since you married her knowing this, I'd go with number 2.


----------

