# One of the MAIN reasons I don't cheat....



## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Aside from it just being wrong and a deep large knife in the back of your spouse, to me I have always thought that if you are a cheater what are you really about and what do you stand for and the answer is..........*nothing*.

A good husband or wife - *no*

A good father or mother - *not really*(because you are fooling around on your child's mom or dad and stabbing them in the back too)

Someone that is loyal or can be trusted - *no*


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

To me it's like someone who robs banks and convenience stores and justifies that it's "ok" because it provides for their family.


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## Rizoma (Jun 11, 2012)

Great topic. I was just talking about this with my cheating bf recently.

I told him that I did not cheat on him, not only because of how much I knew it would hurt him and our relationship, but because I don't want "cheater" on _my_ permanent record. Even if I was the only one who would ever know. I am accountable to myself for all of my actions, first and foremost.

For me, not cheating, lying, and being selfish is just as much about _my self-respect_ as it is about my respect for my partner.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> To me it's like someone who robs banks and convenience stores and justifies that it's "ok" because it provides for their family.


Actually i can see a guy getting desperate enough to do that for his family, exhausted all other venues. I accept it more than cheating. 

Cheating is one of the most selfish things you can do.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

i dont even understand cheating. if you dont want to be with your spouse, well then why are you? If you are so miserable you are cheating, you are pretty much ending it.

why not just end it for real?

i dont comprehend it.

and the excuses people come up with for cheating on a husband or wife, then say lack of communication blah blah.

well it seems communicating with your spouse might be easier than hiding a love affair.

i would think a love affair would require more work than the communication or just ending the relationship.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> well it seems communicating with your spouse might be easier than hiding a love affair


But cheating is apparently much more fun...


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Unhappy2011 said:


> I see it as one of those differences between people who have ethics and are of good character and those who don't.
> 
> Some people do the right thing because they want to. Others do it because they don't want to get caught.


I think that's why MC is of limited value. It may work in a few cases were there is real remorse, but most cheats don't have it. Otherwise they wouldn't have done it in the first place.

As someone wise once said " NO amount of counseling can fix someone of no morals or charcter"


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

I couldn't achieve that level of intimacy and/or commitment with anyone else. (Same reason I'll never have a 3some)

My H means the world to me and is my Best Friend.


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## Rizoma (Jun 11, 2012)

bribrius said:


> i dont even understand cheating. if you dont want to be with your spouse, well then why are you? If you are so miserable you are cheating, you are pretty much ending it.
> 
> why not just end it for real?
> 
> ...


That's my line of thinking as well, and the reason I personally will just end my relationship if I ever feel the temptation of getting close to another man. If I'm open to something else, it means I don't want what I have, and need to end it if I can't fix it. Then I can look elsewhere all I want, with a clean conscience.

But some people don't have the self-awareness to know this or the boundaries to avoid dangerous situations, and they slide down a slippery slope that leads to cheating.

And some people cheat for other reasons. Even people in happy, fulfilling relationships can cheat. My bf cheated just for sex, in the moment it was offered to him. It was purely an impulse. And I can relate to that even less than if he had been emotionally involved or unhappy with me. I can't even imagine myself in a position where I would be that selfish and reckless. I feel like a different species than him.

As far as I can understand, cheating is all about selfishness, low self-respect, weak personal boundaries, and cowardice. I don't like to think of any people as "bad people" (I'm far from perfect myself; everyone has flaws), but cheaters certainly have work to do on the self in those areas.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Jimena said:


> I couldn't achieve that level of intimacy and/or commitment with anyone else. (Same reason I'll never have a 3some)
> 
> My H means the world to me and is my Best Friend.


My WW said this, then years later... cheated.


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## Encore DT (May 29, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Aside from it just being wrong and a deep large knife in the back of your spouse, to me I have always thought that if you are a cheater what are you really about and what do you stand for and the answer is..........*nothing*.
> 
> A good husband or wife - *no*
> 
> ...


I would also add - a good mother/father figure to your kids...NO


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I've always said that in the end I wanna say I stood for _something_ without being a total goody two shoes, and so if I was running around on my wife it would just cancel out soooo many things that I would like to stand for.


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> My WW said this, then years later... cheated.


I'm sorry to hear that, but I doubt I share any qualities with your ww.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

costa200 said:


> But cheating is apparently much more fun...


Good point and I get the sarcasm. 

The other issue is that there is absolutely no consequence to cheating in the court or in society, and too many times the loyal spouse takes the cheater back.

So hey, the loyal spouse gets to improve the marriage without the fun of an affair and the cheater gets cake and does far less work to improve the marriage than do most loyal spouses.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> My WW said this, then years later... cheated.


My STBEH said this to, but then cheated. 

I said it, and would never cheat. I don't want that as part of my life history.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Aside from straight up being a murderer or molesting a child, there has to be something else that each one of us finds horrific and hurtful enough to end the marriage with no second chances. Mine just happens to be infidelity and physical abuse is a close second; and as I wrote before that with my ex once she started striking me hard on 3 different occasions that was the deciding factor on quickly ending that relationship.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I don't cheat... because I'm not a selfish pr!ck.

I care about how I treat others, as I can usually put myself into
someone else's shoes pretty easily. What others (especially who I'm committed to) think of me matters.

It's about respect. Respect for myself and my partner.

If I commit to something, it's until the day I die.

To others, it's just a game (show).


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Aside from straight up being a murderer or molesting a child, there has to be something else that each one of us finds horrific and hurtful enough to end the marriage with no second chances. Mine just happens to be infidelity and physical abuse is a close second; and as I wrote before that with my ex once she started striking me hard on 3 different occasions that was the deciding factor on quickly ending that relationship.


I always assumed infidelity would be enough for me to call it quits, without losing a wink of sleep.

And look at me now.... look at me now...


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> I always assumed infidelity would be enough for me to call it quits, without losing a wink of sleep.
> 
> And look at me now.... look at me now...


Yeah for me knowing exactly how I am it would be best for everyone to end it if my wife cheated, because I would be so incredibly disgusted over it and there would no longer be any respect on my part in the marriage from that point on. She would have to constantly live in my shadows and stay out of my way and that's not going to be good for anyone involved.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I hope that one day Cee Paul does not find himself in the situation that I found myself in, 15 years ago.

I cheated. Why? I was in a very dark and lonely place. My wife had cheated on me several years earlier and I had not addressed the problems it caused to me. I know now that I rug swept the issue.

As far as everyone knew, we were the perfect couple.

I confessed to my wife and as a consequence of my betrayal of not only myself, but of my wife, I nearly destroyed myself.

We worked our way through the issues it caused.


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

i think it comes down to morals and character, honesty and integrity. 

If I don't have any of those, then my main reason for not cheating on my wife is because of my upbringing (broken home) and hurt I was as a child to hear stories of my mom and dad infedelity to eachother.

From that experience, I have always told myself that I wouldnt be cheating on my wife, I would be cheating on my children. I hope I never go a day without putting them to sleep at night because of my actions against my wife.


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## diamond76 (Jun 26, 2012)

I've never cheated but I have had an unfaithful H. we've been married for 10 years and last year I discovered my man had another woman, or more than one. It was very hard for me to go on and forgive... and I discovered he was cheating on me the worst way. I had already suspected that he cheated on me, because of his strange behavior... so I decided to *spy his pc *through a system I found on an Italian site Endoacustica. I discovered he had conversation with several “female friends” and that *he had met most of them*. In his Facebook messages he also wrote the details!!! I was shocked, angry, I wanted to leave him. He promised me that he would never do it again. But... how can I believe him?
IMO, once a cheater, always a cheater. we are still married but something has irremediably changed. Probably our relationship is coming to an end. I cannot forgive him... not know, probably I need more time to forget what I read when I spied his pc... and I even don't know if it'll be possible. i feel so angry!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I think of the practical reasons that you shouldn't cheat.

1. You never know what kind of wild card you are fooling around with. Even if they are not a bunny boiler (remember Fatal Attraction?) they may not be as discrete as you would like for them to be.

2. your friends and associates may not see the positive in this (ie, you still have in you or somesuch) and as mentioned on another thread could lose your job, your campaign for elected office, and your social circle.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Why do you people feel the need to come on the CWI forum and rub your self righteous attitudes in the faces of people who are 
COPING WITH INFIDELITY!!!!

Yes we are all entitled to our opinions but us BS spouses are doing our best to piece our lives back together and we dont need your holier than thou attitudes!

Pop over to the Social Spot and have your fun.
Dont you think we all feel like crap already!!


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> I always assumed infidelity would be enough for me to call it quits, without losing a wink of sleep.
> 
> And look at me now.... look at me now...


Don't be too hard on yourself.

I, too, said that cheating would be a marriage deal breaker, but I stayed and tried to reconcile for almost 7 months. 

The second Dday with photographs of him going to get lap dances was the final straw.

It wasn't the lap dance, it was the deception. It was another lie and something my STBEH always claimed he would find degrading and demeaning. 

Yet, I learned he has been frequenting such places since the day we married.

He also claimed to think that men who dated women half their age or had affairs with young women were "old fools" those were his words. 

Yet his OW was young enough to be his daughter at half his age. 

So, the questions are? Who is my husband, and how can I ever trust another word that leaves his mouth?

There were other lies, too, like making contact again two weeks after claiming to end the affair. Lies about closing his secret bank account when he had not, the same for a secret credit card.


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## Kathrynthegreat (Apr 23, 2012)

I think the main reason neither one of us ever cheated was because, over the course of our 11-year marriage, we gave each other firearms for every major gift-giving occasion and frequently went to the range together. You just don't cheat on a woman (or man) that has that many guns and is very good with them.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I hope that one day Cee Paul does not find himself in the situation that I found myself in, 15 years ago.
> 
> I cheated. Why? I was in a very dark and lonely place. My wife had cheated on me several years earlier and I had not addressed the problems it caused to me. I know now that I rug swept the issue.
> 
> ...


Matt Matt:

I have said this in many posts prior, and I will say it again. 

You had a revenge affair. Revenge affairs are the only type, IMO, that should be quickly forgiven. 

You had a reason born of trauma. I don't advocate revenge affairs. Still, they are at least understandable given the trauma and ensuing self esteem issues a betrayed spouse experiences.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Kathrynthegreat said:


> I think the main reason neither one of us ever cheated was because, over the course of our 11-year marriage, we gave each other firearms for every major gift-giving occasion and frequently went to the range together. You just don't cheat on a woman (or man) that has that many guns and is very good with them.


I know you are simply introducing some levity into the situation. 

Still, just saying', We both have weapons, and go to the range frequently. 

I keep them in a gun safe. 

I must obviously be a very rational sane person because the thought of shooting my Cheating spouse never crossed my mind. 

Prison is not a pretty place to live.


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

There's nothing wrong with discussing somthing Positive in a relationship.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I hope that one day Cee Paul does not find himself in the situation that I found myself in, 15 years ago.
> 
> I cheated. Why? I was in a very dark and lonely place. My wife had cheated on me several years earlier and I had not addressed the problems it caused to me. I know now that I rug swept the issue.
> 
> ...


I have heard the term "you are either a cheater.....or you're NOT" from many different people, and so I guess I've always fit into the "not" category.

Now with that being said am I a cheater - NO; but there are many times that I have been a loud obnoxious jerk to my wife and have gossiped about her like I do on here which is wrong, so I am not without my own set of faults and are guilty of other things that don't involve a _third party._

And one biiiiig factor for not cheating that I left out is whomever you cheat with, unless it's an anonymous prostitute type of thing, you may as well hand them the keys to your house and your life because they now OWN you with this dirty secret of yours in their pocket they can destroy you with.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I have heard the term "you are either a cheater.....or you're NOT" from many different people, and so I guess I've always fit into the "not" category.
> 
> Now with that being said am I a cheater - NO; but there are many times that I have been a loud obnoxious jerk to my wife and have gossiped about her like I do on here which is wrong, so I am not without my own set of faults and are guilty of other things that don't involve a _third party._
> 
> And one biiiiig factor for not cheating that I left out is whomever you cheat with, unless it's an anonymous prostitute type of thing, you may as well hand them the keys to your house and your life because they now OWN you with this dirty secret of yours in their pocket they can destroy you with.


I like and agree with most of your post. 

However, venting about a spouse anonymously on a support forum is not the same as an emotional affair. 

The difference is one is intimate and professing love and getting to know each other on a personal level with intent to meet, if meeting is not already taking place. 

A support forum or a psychologists office is a healthy place to vent. 

Finding another person to vent to and revealing detail of your life and your spouses life with intent to meet or eventually have sex is different.


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## Kathrynthegreat (Apr 23, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I know you are simply introducing some levity into the situation.
> 
> Still, just saying', We both have weapons, and go to the range frequently.
> 
> ...


I know. . . just a joke. Haha.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I like and agree with most of your post.
> 
> However, venting about a spouse anonymously on a support forum is not the same as an emotional affair.
> 
> ...


Well I'm definitely not looking to hookup with anyone online and I am pretty much anonymous on here - and wanna stay that way, but at some point my wife and I are going to have to get some serious counseling or we'll be in divorce court by the end of this year I'm afraid.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> "And one biiiiig factor for not cheating that I left out is whomever you cheat with, unless it's an anonymous prostitute type of thing, you may as well hand them the keys to your house and your life because they now OWN you with this dirty secret of yours in their pocket they can destroy you with."


I think in most cheating cases this fact gets lost during the heat of passion, or maybe people don't really care about someone having that much control over them.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Why do you people feel the need to come on the CWI forum and rub your self righteous attitudes in the faces of people who are
> COPING WITH INFIDELITY!!!!
> 
> Yes we are all entitled to our opinions but us BS spouses are doing our best to piece our lives back together and we dont need your holier than thou attitudes!
> ...


I don't get where you're coming from... can you explain?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Why do you people feel the need to come on the CWI forum and rub your self righteous attitudes in the faces of people who are
> COPING WITH INFIDELITY!!!!
> 
> Yes we are all entitled to our opinions but us BS spouses are doing our best to piece our lives back together and we dont need your holier than thou attitudes!
> ...


No one's attacking the loyal spouse daisy, I think you misunderstood the OP's intentions.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Well I'm definitely not looking to hookup with anyone online and I am pretty much anonymous on here - and wanna stay that way, but at some point my wife and I are going to have to get some serious counseling or we'll be in divorce court by the end of this year I'm afraid.


Well a divorce is a saner option than cheating if you have marital difficulties. 

I am glad you have made a conscious choice to NOT cheat.


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## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

Lack of integrity, lack of respect and self-respect, no accountability, immature, selfish, bad wife, bad mother/role model, CHEATER, liar...
Right after DDay, I would have indignantly defended myself from about half of these accusations. BUT, they're all correct, and it was, in part, empathy that led me to that conclusion. I only hope that, one day, I'll be able to say, "Those things are who I was.". Is that even possible? (I don't know why I kept reading this thread, but as painful as it was, I couldn't tear my eyes away, hope you're not offended by me adding my $.02)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

sayjellybeans said:


> Lack of integrity, lack of respect and self-respect, no accountability, immature, selfish, bad wife, bad mother/role model, CHEATER, liar...
> Right after DDay, I would have indignantly defended myself from about half of these accusations. BUT, they're all correct, and it was, in part, empathy that led me to that conclusion. I only hope that, one day, I'll be able to say, "Those things are who I was.". Is that even possible? (I don't know why I kept reading this thread, but as painful as it was, I couldn't tear my eyes away, hope you're not offended by me adding my $.02)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, not at all.... thank you for sharing your thoughts.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

If you are not COPING WITH INFIDELITY, why are you in here posting about what a perfect person YOU are because you will NEVER cheat?!?!?

Good lord.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> If you are not COPING WITH INFIDELITY, why are you in here posting about what a perfect person YOU are because you will NEVER cheat?!?!?
> 
> Good lord.


Amen!
Seems like his marriage isn't so perfect after all though!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

sayjellybeans said:


> Lack of integrity, lack of respect and self-respect, no accountability, immature, selfish, bad wife, bad mother/role model, CHEATER, liar...
> Right after DDay, I would have indignantly defended myself from about half of these accusations. BUT, they're all correct, and it was, in part, empathy that led me to that conclusion. I only hope that, one day, I'll be able to say, "Those things are who I was.". Is that even possible? (I don't know why I kept reading this thread, but as painful as it was, I couldn't tear my eyes away, hope you're not offended by me adding my $.02)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes one day it will be possible. Do everything on your power to put things right. You made bad choices, but you can repair the damage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

cantthinkstraight said:


> I don't get where you're coming from... can you explain?


As I said. The self righteous attitude of the person who will NEVER cheat coming onto this forum where people are in a lot of emotional turmoil seeking help because of their spouses infidelity. Spouses who swore that THEY would NEVER cheat! It just smacks us in the face! And yes I probably am a bit sensitive about it, but I just don't get it!? I don't understand . No one is immune from infidelity! Absolutely no one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

People who have cheated aren't all the same. There are some who have a temporary "brain explosion" and live to regret their actions for the rest of their lives. They show true remorse. There are a few on this forum.

At the other end of the spectum, there are the sociopathic types who really don't care about anyone but themselves & their own selfish needs. They don't care about the damage they do to their BS, their children, their AP's BS and children. 

The sad thing is, in all the reading I've done on this and other sites, and my own personal observations in my own real day to day world, there seems to be a greater proportion of the second group. 

I was raised a Catholic, but no longer follow any religion. I consider myself a spiritual person. But in my life, in everything I do, every decision I make, I live by "do unto others as you would have done unto you". To me, it's the golden rule for life. When you look at the 10 commandments, it's really the same commandment, with specific examples. Don't kill you're neighbour, don't hump his wife, don't steal his BMW etc. Also, it's my understanding that, in all religions in the world, that the "do unto others..." law is the only theme, common to all of them.

It's not rocket science. Do people who carry on affairs, the lies, the sneaking, the risks of STD's to themselves & BS, really think that it's okay. If they could just think for a moment, "would I be happy if my BS did this to me?". I think that most of them don't. They just don't care. And I think it's sad there are so many like that.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Vegemite said:


> People who have cheated aren't all the same. There are some who have a temporary "brain explosion" and live to regret their actions for the rest of their lives. They show true remorse. There are a few on this forum.
> 
> At the other end of the spectum, there are the sociopathic types who really don't care about anyone but themselves & their own selfish needs. They don't care about the damage they do to their BS, their children, their AP's BS and children.
> 
> The sad thing is, in all the reading I've done on this and other sites, and my own personal observations in my own real day to day world, there seems to be a greater proportion of the second group.


I agree. This is not a bitter observation on my part as a betrayed spouse. It is simply a realistic observation. 

Most cheaters reoffend and then tend to be either narcissistic or sociopathic, by my observation and research.

The cheater appears to be living in a world of compartmentalization, disassociation and displacement of their anxieties, hostilities or their aggressions.



> I was raised a Catholic, but no longer follow any religion. I consider myself a spiritual person. But in my life, in everything I do, every decision I make, I live by "do unto others as you would have done unto you". To me, it's the golden rule for life. When you look at the 10 commandments, it's really the same commandment, with specific examples.
> 
> Don't kill you're neighbour, don't hump his wife, don't steal his BMW etc. Also, it's my understanding that, in all religions in the world, that the "do unto others..." law is the only theme, common to all of them.


In the catholic religion cheating is grounds for divorce and the church advocates apprising the affair partner's spouse as the right thing to do because the BS has a right to know his spouse is coveting another person's spouse or lying.

I am no longer a practicing catholic. I consider myself spiritual, but I still abide by the ten commandments because you are right, they seem to be basic tenets of all religions.



> It's not rocket science. Do people who carry on affairs, the lies, the sneaking, the risks of STD's to themselves & BS, really think that it's okay. If they could just think for a moment, "would I be happy if my BS did this to me?".
> 
> I think that most of them don't. They just don't care. And I think it's sad there are so many like that.


Again, I think this is on target. There are too many cheaters, in general, and too many who reoffend without conscience or care for the pain they are inflicting. 

Most cheaters hate the thought of being cheated on. I see this time and again when the BS engages in a revenge affair. 

I am far from being a perfect human being. I don't think any human is perfect. 

Nevertheless there are things that to my mind are just out of bounds. 

Lying to your spouse about a cheating which requires an extensive secret life and web of lies, and exposing the spouse to an STD, some of which are not curable, is one of the things I think is way out of bounds. 

The sad thing is that society seems to sanction it and almost encourage it.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I agree. This is not a bitter observation on my part as a betrayed spouse. It is simply a realistic observation.
> 
> Most cheaters reoffend and then tend to be either narcissistic or sociopathic, by my observation and research.
> 
> ...


Sara, seems like you and I are on the same wavelenghth. I certainly don't claim to be perfect, but there are some bare minimums to being a human in society. Honesty, surely has to be near the top of the list. I just don't get why it's so uncommon. Yes, society does seem to encourage it. Don't get me started on politicians


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

For those offended by this thread I am sorry, but I have been cheated on a long time ago so I too know how it feels and at least this thread is staying on topic and with the theme of this entire section..............."infidelity".


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

So so many types of affairs you can only lump together by definition of the word affair. Beyond that the reasons, length, degree of hurt, intensity, type, frequency, etc etc are all so different I just don't see how they are comparable as a few have said here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> If you are not COPING WITH INFIDELITY, why are you in here posting about what a perfect person YOU are because you will NEVER cheat?!?!?
> 
> Good lord.


Because Cee Paul is whistling in the dark? Does he fear that he could wake up one day in the bed of another woman and think: "S**t! Is this ME?"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh, by the way, Sara, I know what I think your husband is. A loser. How so? He lost you.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Because Cee Paul is whistling in the dark? Does he fear that he could wake up one day in the bed of another woman and think: "S**t! Is this ME?"


Spot on Matt!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> My WW said this, then years later... cheated.


Funny how some who say they wouldn't tolerate any cheating from their spouse... , go and cheat later. 


This immense level of hypocrisy leaves me speechless.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> Funny how some who say they wouldn't tolerate any cheating from their spouse... , go and cheat later.
> 
> 
> This immense level of hypocrisy leaves me speechless.


I think it's more naivety than hypocrisy. I think people like to toot their own horn with egocentric superiority and forget they too are susceptible to poor judgement.

Life is short yet at the same time life is long. Feelings change, we age, our ideals get shattered, goals left unmet, hardship, our spouses change, etc etc. To say so many things as absolutes especially something as common as a affair is naive to me.


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## Rizoma (Jun 11, 2012)

I am also sorry if any of my comments earlier have offended anyone who is here trying to heal from infidelity. I have nothing but compassion for what you are going through.

I too am trying to heal, and I made my comments coming from the position of being recently blindsided by a serial cheater/compulsive liar who says he did only want me the whole time and was never dissatisfied with our relationship. I am at the stage where most of what I am feeling is "Why did he do this to me, when I actually _was_ unhappy during the relationship, but I didn't choose to cheat?!" I have not yet forgiven him. Maybe my comments make more sense now in the context of my particular struggles?

For the record, I do not think I am perfect or immune to cheating (or that anyone else is). The reason I think it's so unlikely that I will ever cheat is because I _know_ I'm not perfect, therefore I have made it a point in life to remain self-aware at all times and maintain strong personal boundaries. I have made many mistakes and I have learned my own vulnerabilities through them. I have an idea of what types of situations would most likely make me susceptible to cheating, and that is why I avoid those situations. I'm one of those obsessively careful types of people who thinks 20 moves ahead before I decide on my first one. I can usually catch myself very early on from going down a path there would be no going back from if I continued. And my main motivation for my self-discipline is that I don't want to end up compromising my values and not being able to respect myself in the end. I also know it is hardest to forgive myself when my mistakes hurt people I love.

Everyone has their own individual vulnerabilities to every type of cheating. But despite their human flaws, many people will never end up cheating. Right now, I just wish my former fiance was one of them. He only thought about the consequences after he'd already done it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> I think it's more naivety than hypocrisy. I think people like to toot their own horn with egocentric superiority and forget they too are susceptible to poor judgement.
> 
> Life is short yet at the same time life is long. Feelings change, we age, our ideals get shattered, goals left unmet, hardship, our spouses change, etc etc. To say so many things as absolutes especially something as common as a affair is naive to me.


I agree affairs are common, too common and therein lies the problem.

As for anyone changing their core values enough to have an affair. 

I call Bull donkey. 

Core values are just that. Cheaters lack core values to begin with an that is what allows them to become vulnerable to cheating. 

the only exception, IMO, is a revenge affair which is a reactive response to trauma. (i don't support revenge affairs, but I do understand them more than cheating for no reason other than one is claiming to be bored or anxious or stressed.

Some studies show a cheater gene and a monogamy gene. 

I agree with that science. 

I have always been monogamous. Even when dating. I could only date one person at a time. 

I could only have sex with someone I saw as a potential long term mate. 

Some people date many people at once and also have sex with more than one person while dating. 

I think that says something about their core values.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

And to those that have been cheated on who are taking shots at me - that's crazy, because I am the one ON YOUR SIDE about how wrong it is for your spouse or significant other to have cheated on you. My sister's husband has cheated on her 3 times over the past 20 years that she knows of and she's continuously taken him back, and I was in her corner the first time and was supportive when she took him back then because other than infidelity he's a really nice guy & always has been. But after the 2nd and 3rd times I backed out and told her she's on her own and that if he cheats a 4th - 5th - and 6th time, she has allowed it all to keep happening so she shouldn't be surprised & won't get any sympathy from me.

And some of you sound like you're mad at me because I'm NOT a cheater and maybe should be; but for the record I turned down one opportunity to cheat in this marriage with a co-worker(that's still there), and turned down an opportunity with one of our neighbors in my previous marriage as well.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

In MC our C made the standard comment, "given the circumstance everyone is vunerable"... my fww nodding. she looks at me, I looking at both of them in disgust. "You just dont get it do you... 30 years of MC, and dont get it". If marriage is bad enough to cheat, then divorce. Wow, what a novel idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RWB said:


> In MC our C made the standard comment, "given the circumstance everyone is vunerable"... my fww nodding. she looks at me, I looking at both of them in disgust. "You just dont get it do you... 30 years of MC, and dont get it". If marriage is bad enough to cheat, then divorce. Wow, what a novel idea.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But what if the marriage isn't bad enough to cheat? But it still happened?

OK, I will admit, maybe my circumstances are, if not unique, fairly rare, my wife cheated on me, but due to her circumstances, she failed to understand that her actions would hurt me. Yes, she was sorry when she saw the effect it had on me.

I became depressed and cheated as a result of that depression.

But was our relationship bad? No, in general, it wasn't. And we are still together.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm a BS who divorced but never cheated.The reason is because I have the same expectations of myself as I do of the person with whom I'm in a relationship.I expect to be held up to the same light and held accountable when I'm lacking.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

My H had an A and we are still married. He is truly remorseful and ashamed of his actions. 
For 18 years he was honest and faithful. Hated cheaters. Swore he would never do that to me. Scum of the earth bastards!
Just saying!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Vegemite said:


> Sara, seems like you and I are on the same wavelenghth. I certainly don't claim to be perfect, but there are some bare minimums to being a human in society. Honesty, surely has to be near the top of the list. I just don't get why it's so uncommon. Yes, society does seem to encourage it. Don't get me started on politicians


Vegemite. 

Politicians....arrrrrrghhhhh!

BTW: I love Australia and vegemite, too. 

Some say it tastes bitter, but I like it spread on toast.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Vegemite.
> 
> BTW: I love Australia and vegemite, too.
> 
> Some say it tastes bitter, but I like it spread on toast.


Definitely an acquired taste. I'm glad you like.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

RWB said:


> In MC our C made the standard comment, "given the circumstance everyone is vunerable"... my fww nodding. she looks at me, I looking at both of them in disgust. "You just dont get it do you... 30 years of MC, and dont get it". If marriage is bad enough to cheat, then divorce. Wow, what a novel idea.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How many times have we heard this? What an insult to the BS with a clean slate in a long marriage. Assuming they've studied, have a degree, and 30 years of MC experience, and they come out with that SH!T!!! Is she that stupid, that she thinks that a general statement like that, that has no basis, insults you, just to make your CS feels better, could any way be helpful.

And your MC has been doing this for 30 years?:scratchhead:


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Sara8 said:


> I agree affairs are common, too common and therein lies the problem.
> 
> As for anyone changing their core values enough to have an affair.
> 
> ...


You are mixing words is it science or core values? I think ultimately it is core values not science, but that doesn't mean that tendecies cannot be greater in some people than others.

Look at the studies they are now doing in pedophilia and gay/lesbian community!! The more they dig the more they see it's chemical/genetic meaning YOU ARE DEFINITELY born that way 9 times out of 10.

I think the more science progresses the more we will all see the DEMONS AND SICK people in this world have chemical/genetic differences that cause them to think the way they do....

That's a topic for another day!!

Back to cheaters there are still so many different kinds it's not all the same. The wife/husband who never ever ever cheated then got drunk at a vulnerable time and kissed someone is far different than the business man who sees prostitutes every month, or the wife who has a EA for 2 years, or the etc etc. They are all so very different!!


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> You are mixing words is it science or core values? I think ultimately it is core values not science, but that doesn't mean that tendecies cannot be greater in some people than others.


Science is always in flux. 

One of the problems is nature or nurture. That debate has been going on for years. 

Is it only chemistry, likely no. Is it only core personality traits, no. It is likely a mixture of chemistry and an inability to use self control or poor coping skills. 

The answer to nature or nurture presently is that both influence a person's behavior. 

It would take extensive therapy to even diagnose a personality disorder. They are very difficult to diagnose because with something like narcissistic personality disorder, the person can be very charming and totally different in public with strangers than with family.

Sometimes a person with NPD can even fool and experienced psychologist.

So, a spouse is certainly easily fooled.

I agree that a one nighter is different from an long term affairs, and so is using a prostitute. 

Still, they speak to core personality traits, values, and self control issues


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Could I have cheated? I suppose! I don't really think that it's all that difficult to do. But there's a part of me that when I make a commitment to a spouse, I not only make that commitment to them; I make it to my family and the rich pride, heritage, and joy that they have so provided me with; I make it to the spouses family, to foster security in them; I make it to the world, to let them know how much I love that person and am willing to commit myself exclusively to them for all the world to see.

But most importantly, I make that vow to God, who richly ordained it, knowing full well that He would richly question my conscience for having violated that vow while I am on this earthly plane; but more importantly, that He might come to question me about it face-to-face when I finally stand before Him one day, knowing full well that He knows the absolute truth and I cannot lie, cajole, or make excuses about it!

If more people subscribed to that theory, then I feel that you would have far less infidelity in the world today. But in retrospect, I would greatly feel that my viewpoint is byfar the exception rather than the rule!


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Now as someone who only gets sex from his wife about every 4 months or so would I like to cheat or have a "quickie" with someone - yes, but would I do that and be able to live with it and pull off the whole charade - no.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I believe anyone can cheat. Fidelity is conditional. Every person has their breaking point where it’d be ‘ok’ to cheat. A lot of you wrote what I’d call conditions. Example: I couldn’t hurt her like that. All it’s going to take is a bit of push to kick in some strong vindictive feelings and not caring (or even wanting to hurt) and you’ve now made it “ok” in your head. Enter the idea that a RA isn’t as bad. Keep self-soothing those ‘negative’ feelings and next thing you know, you’ll even think this is a good thing for you. 

Where that conditional bar is set is an individual thing; Some are high, some are low. Its also very hard as an individual to really figure out what your conditions are; We all like to talk tough, but when it comes down to it, you don’t know until placed in that situation. At best, we have a vague idea of where it is as defined by our ideas of ‘right and wrong’. So, when I look at other people’s stories, I review them against my own ideas.... Sometimes, I think adultery is “ok” in my head. I know my wife thinks like this too.... But our bars are set so very differently.

And why I can’t cheat? There’s zero promises there... I can cheat. I have consistently chosen not to even when I can fully justify it in my head. Can my wife stop me from cheating? Nope. She can influence it though IF she steers clear of my conditions of fidelity. Since she had affairs, and that was a large part of my condition, she’s right to worry.... I feel I’m now justified to have an affair without a large conflict of sparing my wife’s hurt... Still doesn’t mean I have to choose that path though.


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## TheOnceler (Jul 3, 2012)

Anyone is capable of cheating. Or lies. Or assault. Anyone.

It is all a matter of degree. Many of the folks who posted here noted how they could or would never lie. Really? Never? I'd say that it is literally impossible to live without telling lies. Overt lies, or 'little white lies', or lies of omission. There are many flavors.

Still, the point is still somewhat valid. I would say that there is a difference between telling your wife 'No, those jeans don't make your butt look fat.' versus concealing an illicit affair.

But, to be clear, either can be a lie. And once you can lie about something insignificant, and we all can, then it is merely a matter of degree before you lie about something significant.

Does that mean that all of us, of YOU, will someday cheat? No, of course not. But it is a reason to NOT feel so superior in your own righteousness.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

TheOnceler said:


> Anyone is capable of cheating. Or lies. Or assault. Anyone.
> 
> It is all a matter of degree. Many of the folks who posted here noted how they could or would never lie. Really? Never? I'd say that it is literally impossible to live without telling lies. Overt lies, or 'little white lies', or lies of omission. There are many flavors.
> 
> ...


Are you sure they said they can never lie. 

Or did they say they could never cheat or look their spouse in the eye and lie about going out to get buck naked and have sex with another person outside the marriage?

Of course everyone lies by degree. 

It's the type of lie and to whom that makes the difference.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Racer said:


> .
> 
> And why I can’t cheat? There’s zero promises there... I can cheat. I have consistently chosen not to even when I can fully justify it in my head. Can my wife stop me from cheating? Nope. She can influence it though IF she steers clear of my conditions of fidelity. Since she had affairs, and that was a large part of my condition, she’s right to worry.... I feel I’m now justified to have an affair without a large conflict of sparing my wife’s hurt... Still doesn’t mean I have to choose that path though.


Revenge affairs are a totally different animal. I think it's normal to entertain an RA after being cheated on in a long term marriage where you trusted your spouse.

A revenge affair is a reactive response to a severe trauma. The original cheating spouse has not such excuse. 

I don't support RA's and I did not engage in one. But, truly, I could not fault someone for engaging in an RA after learning of a long term EA/Pa. 

I however do not support cheating simply because after 20 years sex with your spouse has become more comfortable than exciting. 

Or for any other silly reason most cheating spouses who have duped trusting spouses usually proffer.

Also a spouse who is the recipient of an RA after their infidelity is exposed is not blindsided by the RA, typically they expect and are on alert for it, as they should be. 

It has been said that the more you trust a spouse the harder it is to cope with and process the cheating. 

A cheater knows he may get hit by the karma bus cause the spouse may be driven to cheat by their cheating


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## TheOnceler (Jul 3, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Revenge affairs are a totally different animal. I think it's normal to entertain an RA after being cheated on in a long term marriage where you trusted your spouse.
> 
> A revenge affair is a reactive response to a severe trauma. The original cheating spouse has not such excuse.



A good friend 'cheated' on her husband. She slept with a friend, a man she had known for years. Was it a revenge affair? You might call it that, although her husband had committed no infidelity.

What he had done was to fail to be present in their marriage, to choose alcohol and late nights at the bar over her. He had dismissed repeated pleas at counseling. He had rationalized away his drinking problem, even after losing his license for repeated DUIs. He basically left her at home, alone in a sham of a marriage.

Was she 'right' to have sex outside of her marriage? Well, no. Was it justified or understandable that in her loneliness and desperation she gave in to the temptation of feeling close and wanted? That is not so easy to answer, is it?


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Sara, that is one thing I have said to my H...is that he kind of screwed himself because he was always a little jealous if I was talking to another guy, etc. and now after this EA. He cannot say a word because it would be so hypocritcal now of him to make a comment to me about talking to some guy after what he did....

We would be at work functions of his and if an attractive male coworker of his would be talking to me..and H was talking to someone else..he would always ask me so what were you guys talking about, (I could tell that it bothered him that I was talking to this one guy) Now, if that happens again, I can turn to him now and say just "idle chit chat"....(I use that term because that is how H described the emails between him and his OW...yet I love you and I miss you was used frequently). I can't wait for that opportunity to say that to him.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Once in a while something slips out that I regret saying, something that can be construed as a 'dig' at hubby, I suppose, for cheating. But I don't think it bodes well for the relationship if the BS looks forward to doing such things. I don't look forward to saying or doing things to rub it in his face at all. I look forward to making love with him, going away with him, sitting on the deck with him and enjoying the weather, watching football with him, grocery shopping with him. I miss him when we aren't together.  I woke up this morning and it was so blissful to just lay there naked with him for a while before we had to get up for work. And I told him so. I don't have to stifle a feeling of anger or revolt when I find myself in his arms, I don't have to fake it just to make him think everything's fine. It really IS fine.

If that wasn't true I wouldn't be with him.


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## TheOnceler (Jul 3, 2012)

highwood said:


> Sara, that is one thing I have said to my H...is that he kind of screwed himself because he was always a little jealous if I was talking to another guy, etc. and now after this EA. He cannot say a word because it would be so hypocritcal now of him to make a comment to me about talking to some guy after what he did....
> 
> We would be at work functions of his and if an attractive male coworker of his would be talking to me..and H was talking to someone else..he would always ask me so what were you guys talking about, (I could tell that it bothered him that I was talking to this one guy) Now, if that happens again, I can turn to him now and say just "idle chit chat"....(I use that term because that is how H described the emails between him and his OW...yet I love you and I miss you was used frequently). I can't wait for that opportunity to say that to him.


I think that, for a person who can justify committing any sort of infidelity, it is quite easy to worry that their spouse might do the same. Especially after the original infidelity comes to light.

In contrast, it is the fact that most trustworthy people assume the same trustworthiness in others which makes infidelity so easy to get away with in the first place.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

To me he lied many times...right to my face before DD#2 telling me "I am over that..it is not worth it", he sounded so convincing the whole time...all the while keeping in contact with her via email. So if at times I sound a little bitter yes I probably am. I was basically lied to for 6 months between DD#1 and DD#2. Understand too that in his mind because his EA was strictly online that to him it didn't seem so bad...however to me it was just as upsetting and devestating.

So if the guy once in a while gets a little something thrown back at him..to me he deserves it. He knows I love him and I know he loves me but sometimes it does feel good to get a little bit off of your chest.

Because I do not think that the WS can truly understand what the BS is going thru until they experience some of the same feelings, jealousy, insecurity, etc.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Now as someone who only gets sex from his wife about every 4 months or so would I like to cheat or have a "quickie" with someone - yes, but would I do that and be able to live with it and pull off the whole charade - no.


And then after having an affair, most folks are usually forced to go into the lying or denial mode about it.

A college philosophy professor used to always tell us that it's never good to intentionally lie, because when you tell the truth, it's over and done with; but when you tell a lie, you will usually be forced to tell a dozen others just to attempt to cover your story.

There's a heck of a lot of truth to that!


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

Please do not mention poedphiles and homosexuals in the same sentance unless it also includes "TOTALLY DIFFERENT"


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

TheOnceler said:


> A good friend 'cheated' on her husband. She slept with a friend, a man she had known for years. Was it a revenge affair? You might call it that, although her husband had committed no infidelity.
> 
> What he had done was to fail to be present in their marriage, to choose alcohol and late nights at the bar over her. He had dismissed repeated pleas at counseling. He had rationalized away his drinking problem, even after losing his license for repeated DUIs. He basically left her at home, alone in a sham of a marriage.
> 
> Was she 'right' to have sex outside of her marriage? Well, no. Was it justified or understandable that in her loneliness and desperation she gave in to the temptation of feeling close and wanted? That is not so easy to answer, is it?


You make a good point. But she had other options. She could have left him, which would have been a lot more noble than cheating. 

And could anyone cheat given the right circumstances? I look at it this way. Could I have done what my CW did to me? There is no way on this planet and that I am confident of.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The BS is NEVER to blame for the WS cheating. I don't care what scenario you come up with, the WS ALWAYS has a choice. Always.

WS and BS are equally to blame if they have a bad marriage. Saying the bad marriage contributed to the cheating is a slippery slope. Many (most??) WS's will jump on that as an excuse.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Hope1964 said:


> The BS is NEVER to blame for the WS cheating. I don't care what scenario you come up with, the WS ALWAYS has a choice. Always.
> 
> WS and BS are equally to blame if they have a bad marriage. Saying the bad marriage contributed to the cheating is a slippery slope. Many (most??) WS's will jump on that as an excuse.


I'll argue back that if you treat your spouse that way you are opening yourself up to a affair. I hit my wife weekly and she finally has a affair do I run back and say:

"You have no right blah blah blah"

Or like Oncelot scenario left at home night after night week after week month after month:

"You have no right blah blah blah"

Gambling, alcoholism, abuse, destroying credit, lack of respect, etc etc if one spouse treats the other this way for a long enough period what do you think will happen? 

The difference is on this forum there is no worse act than a affair no matter how the other spouse treated the WS. I disagree you reap what you so goes both ways. To say "Well get a divorce first then move on" is stupid that's like saying "Quit your job before you find another one" 

Just not smart in reality!! Thank gosh most affairs aren't so complicated and most of the time it is just raw selfishness etc, so you don't have to split hairs.

All I"m saying is if you treat your spouse like **** long enough don't act shocked if they go cheat!! It's pretty simple to figure out!!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't cheat because I truly love and respect my husband.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Again just for the record I would like to state that I have been cheated on many years ago and it totally SUCKED when it happened, so I do know and understand that feeling. And I have also had two legit chances and/or opportunities to cheat on my current and my ex-wife with two different women(and both were really cute), but without a second thought I chose NOT to both times because of many different reasons I already mentioned.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OhGeesh said:


> I'll argue back that if you treat your spouse that way you are opening yourself up to a affair. I hit my wife weekly and she finally has a affair do I run back and say:
> 
> "You have no right blah blah blah"
> 
> ...


If you cheat rather than leave, that's the choice you made. If someone's marriage is THAT BAD, why are they even in it? There's no reason they can't leave, yet they choose not to.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> Funny how some who say they wouldn't tolerate any cheating from their spouse... , go and cheat later.
> 
> 
> This immense level of hypocrisy leaves me speechless.


And my wife and her family are all Catholic, so go figure.

Me?

I treat others as I would expect to be treated.

My religion? Sports and Music.

It's gotten me this far... and in the end, at least I can say
that I was never a religious, finger pointing zealot.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

My thinking has always been that when you marry, you marry for life. Obviously that isn't possible in many situations but when you are going into the marriage, that should be the minset. As such, you have to do everything you can to nurture it and keep it alive since this is the only marriage you are going to have. 

I mean, why wouldn't you want the one and only marriage to be the best marriage possible. Once you have kids, you take it a step further because you now have the obligation to create the most peaceful and harmonious existence possible for them.

If you agree and accept what I just wrote, and both husband and wife are on the same page then your marriage can be wonderful and lasting.

Cheating is the opposite of all of this.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Paulination said:


> Once you have kids, you take it a step further because you now have the obligation to create the most peaceful and harmonious existence possible for them.


That's why I left. For my child to live a peaceful life and not live in an abusive environment. Cheating and abuse is a horrible example to the children. By leaving, I am setting an example that I'm to be respected and not treated in any other way.

My husband was married prior to me. If he didn't divorce, we'd never been married. I thank God everyday he's in my life. He did not have children prior to us marrying. My husband and I are a great couple. We have a very strong and fulfilling marriage.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I have seen and heard many many many cases where the 2nd or 3rd time around was the charm for them, and with me I am 0 for 1 so far with a biiig question mark on my 2nd marriage at the moment.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> And my wife and her family are all Catholic, so go figure.
> 
> Me?
> 
> ...


As I've already said in another thread, coming from a religious family doesn't make a you a better person than someone who doesn't follow any religion. If you have it in your blood to cheat, you will cheat whether you're Catholic/Muslim or whatever.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Cee Paul - I admire you for the strength you've shown when you had the chances to cheat on your wife but you didn't!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I have seen and heard many many many cases where the 2nd or 3rd time around was the charm for them, and with me I am 0 for 1 so far with a biiig question mark on my 2nd marriage at the moment.


Well, CP, I am well on my way to being a "two-time loser" myself. But in my heart, I'm just not quite ready to give up.

The two women that I've married both filed their divorce suits on me simply on the grounds of "irreconcilable differences," which I greatly think is a cop-out, catch-all, type of divorce plea. Conversely, I counterfiled with adultery in the first marriage, and will be doing so in the present one, primarily because there's substantive evidence of such activity there!

I am extremely proud, honored, and blessed to be a Christian. I am not one of those who will force my ideology on you and will discuss it with anyone only right up to whatever their comfort level might be. I do not believe in becoming a political activist because I don't even think that Christ would have done that. 

The women I married represented themselves as Christians, but did not have his teachings in their heart. And that's where the core is~ it is in one's heart and soul. 

They may think that while being a Christian might absolve them from their sins by adhering to the "free-ride" theory, that basically implies that they firmly believe that the Heavenly Father, will just look the other way during their sinful acts and then later on, they'll kneel down in prayer to Him, seeking His forgiveness, is somewhat paradoxical. In time, the adulterers will be called to task to offer up an explanation to Him on how their sinful acts of adultery, lying, and deception actually helped to further the mission of God.

It is not religion, but much rather one's conscience that richly dictates whether one wants to hurt themselves, their spouses, their children, their extended families, and their friends through some finite period of self-gratification where they place their own emotional and carnal pleasure way higher up the food chain than the other attributes that should rightfully be there.

I just know that if there is going to be a No. 3 for me, that I will pray that I will come to fully know her conscience and heart, just as I would expect her to come to know mine!


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