# Wife wants a divorce



## sarnold (Jun 9, 2019)

So, some pertinent details. My wife (31) and I (34) have been together 11 years and married for almost 6. We have an amazing 2.5yr old son, a great yellow lab and a home we absolutely love. We both have good careers and used to be madly in love. The only argument we used to have was who loved who more. Not the case anymore. She's completely apathetic toward me and states she has been processing how to divorce me for the last six months, but states she's been unhappy for about 8 years. I just became fully aware of how bad everything really is about 6 weeks ago. Needless to say communication has been the sentinel issue of our relationship. This has completely destroyed my world. Since finding out how bad everything is, I've really reflected and made some positive changes. I've realized and taken accountability for my faults and contributions to our issues and have taken steps to correct them and make sure they never happen again. I know we can come back from this. 

To me, this is in no way strong enough to destroy what we have and what we have overcome in our relationship. We've been through some hardships with our families in relation to deaths, major sickness, parental divorce, etc. In my mind, this is my wife and my family. I'll never stop fighting for them. Marriage is not something that has a finite amount of effort you put in (unless abusive, which it has never been, nor will be), it is not something you stop trying at. To me, marriage is not the happy good times. Marriage is when things are bad and down in the ditch and you have to work at it with each other to overcome, grow and do better and be better. Marriage is something you have to work at every day. I fully understand that now. Sadly, to my wife, it's too little too late and she states she's too far gone to come back, but I either don't want to believe that knowing that people are redeemable and can come back from anything, or I just can't seem to accept that my marriage is most likely over.

I feel like I know what I need to do, but have absolutely horrible execution of it. I know she doesn't want to talk about us unless in a counseling session. We see a couples counselor as well as individual therapists. I view the couple sessions as a way of working on communication and slowly getting us back to being us, but she views it as a transition to divorce and a way to maintain some respect and civility toward each other for the sake of our son and being good effective co-parents. I don't want to talk about us knowing that it's only pushing her further away and the fact that no woman wants to see a man begging and pleading and seeming desperate as that is in no way an attractive trait, but I can't seem to stop talking about us. I don't know why. I feel like I'm looking for reason or understanding of what happened and why we couldn't simply talk about things. I know I have to pick myself back up and take care of myself and put on a stoic face and act like I'm moving on and ultimately that will be healthier for me in the long run even if it doesn't work out, but I want more than anything for my family to stay intact and my wife and I to love each other deeply like we used to do and for my son to grow up in a happy loving two parent household. She used to say that when we were good, we were great and totally untouchable. She's even said she could see us getting back together in a few years, although lately she says those feelings are leaving now to.

This all hit the fan about a month ago. She was checked out, apathetic toward me and I discovered an affair she had been having for, she says, a couple weeks with a coworker who is also married with a family. An affair I immediately forgave. Never once did it cross my mind that I would leave her. She tried to lie about it at first and then I uncovered lie after lie about it, each worse than the last. About 5 different lies in total, but claims she never slept with him. I caught it before it reached that point, so she says. Originally, she said we would be okay, that we would work on it, but we would get back. Then she would flip flop on that probably half a dozen times. One day saying it's not gonna happen and that we're done and then a couple days later tell me it would be slow, but we would make it. Telling her friends and mother she was happy she decided to stick around and work on things and two days after that back to total coldness telling me she doesn't want it to happen. Feeding me all sorts of false hope, leading me on to believe we could get passed this. It wasn't until this passed Wednesday, June 5th in counseling she admitted she never had any intention of reconciling and that she wants a divorce, but didn't know how to tell me and didn't want to hurt me. This whole time I've been thinking we would make it and it was all a lie she kept letting me believe.

The hardest pill for me to swallow is that couples can and often do come back from these issues. Sometimes it takes years, but you keep working at it and it can produce a love so much deeper than you had before. The problem with this is the work part of it. I feel I have put in tremendous effort and will continue to do so, if for nothing else, my own benefit, but there has been no effort on her part. She says she's so far gone and there's so much resentment on her part that she doesn't even want to try. How can you not want to try to save your marriage and your family. She says she hoped for so many years the man she fell in love with would come back and that if that happened things could be great again. I know who that person is, how he was lost and that he is coming back and is already in the process of it. If what you had hoped would happen for so long finally starts to happen, why then would you throw in the towel?

Like I said before, the problem with us is communication. It all started with my negativity. I was never negative toward her or directed it at her, but she would internalize everything and make it personal. So, me providing a negative atmosphere didn't matter who or what it was about. The negativity in and of itself did it. Next was my tone in the way I talked. I would use a tone with disregard to how it made others feel. That was wrong of me to do. Those were my two major faults to her. She says she would try to talk to me about things, but I wouldn't understand, or dismissed it, or just didn't listen. I don't know if one or if all of those are right, but nonetheless, I should have done better and tried harder. So, instead of trying a different method of talking to me or checking to make sure I truly understood where things were, she would try talking to me in the same ineffective way until she stopped talking to me altogether and then just began building resentment. In the meantime, I would think we were having our normal ups an downs like every relationship had, but would get over it and be fine, but to her the problems were just compounding over time, but also never let me know. I really never thought things were that bad between us. We would have our good days and bad. Just like every couple ever.

So now she wants a divorce and doesn't see us ever being together again and all without having even tried to work on things. Like I said, we both have counselors and a couples counselor, but it's only been a few sessions and she hasn't even seen her counselor yet other than the intake session. If we were able to look each other in the eye and say we gave it 100%, but it just didn't work, I would be okay with that. But I can't imagine giving up without having tried everything. I mean, this is our family, we've spent a third of our lives with each other, this is our marriage and our lives. How do you not fight for something like that? Am I crazy to keep fighting for this? We haven't signed anything or even filed yet. Do I keep fighting till the very end or do I give up knowing I tried 100%? The emotional rollercoaster is taking and has taken it's toll on me already. The devil on my shoulder says run, that this is likely to happen again and why would you stay with someone that doesn't love you? Then the angel on my other shoulder says stay and fight. This is the mother of your child, this is your soulmate, this is your true love, you don't stop fighting for that, you know you two can make it and that she just needs to let go of the resentment and see what an amazing man, husband and father you are, were and will be. That you two can and will find true happiness and this will result in the deepest love. The type of love you cant write a book about.

Needless to say I'm torn, but want more than anything for my family to stay together, my wife and I to love each more than anything and to be awesome parents to our child, watch him grow up and for us to grow old together.

This is very long, sorry about that, but ask any questions you want and say anything you want. All comments and discussion are welcome.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

She has another man probably he guy she was cheating on you with. when she is cold to you they are getting along good, when she says she wants to work things out with you her and him are having problems cause he wont leave his wife. She is 4 steps ahead of you. Sucks but thats what I suspect.

"She's even said she could see us getting back together in a few years, although lately she says those feelings are leaving now to.
This all hit the fan about a month ago. She was checked out, apathetic toward me and I discovered an affair she had been having for, she says, a couple weeks with a coworker who is also married with a family. An affair I immediately forgave. "

Good thing you immediately forgave that, It should all be fine now!!


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

You can't make her want to stay with you. Her perspective is different than yours. 

You CAN stop sucking up to her and not make this easy for her. Like go ahead and serve her divorce papers. Tell her to go ahead and move out, tell her that custody will be 50/50 and that is non-negotiable. If you don't know how you are going to do that while working full time....tell her you will figure it out. Tell her, you are giving her what she wants and that you will figure out your part of it. 

Then, tell the other man's wife what was going on. She's probably lying about it not being physical. 

You can stop the divorce from proceeding once you start it. But you can file the initial "petition for divorce" to let her know that this is real. This part of the divorce doesn't require all the specifics, those are all the papers that come later. This gets it started. Then she has a certain amount of time to respond. 

So I'd file the papers to start it, hand her her copy and tell her to move out. I'd tell her that there will be no more couples counseling if she is not interested in the marriage. That is just spinning wheels.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Speaking as a woman, I can tell you that your wife is done. You are doing all the heavy lifting to make the marriage survive. She is not emotionally invested in saving the marriage. She is already invested in another man.

Salvage your pride and dignity. Respect her desire to leave. Then serve her with divorce papers and show her the door. Trust me, she's done.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

She's in a limerance affair with a married man.

The last thing you should be doing is begging her in any way. You are her husband, not plan B.

You should 180 to detach and tell her that there is no room for three in your marriage. She doesn't get to have a husband and a boyfriend. Her married man will not leave his wife for her.

You should inform the wife of the other man (OM). She has a right to know. There are lots of dangerous STDs around and he is endangering her life by keeping her in the dark.

You should also get checked for STDs.

Do NOT take on blame for this. Sure, your marriage wasn't perfect, but her decision to break your heart and cheat is her own terrible choice. Don't let her think that she is 'torn' between the two of you. She is already married to you. If she wanted him, the time to get that ball rolling was when she sat you down to tell you she was divorcing - which, of course, she never did.

Your W is a liar. You have to start wrapping your mind around that and stop bowing and scraping.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She doesn't care about you or the child.

She only cares about herself.

Lawyer up and get tested for STDs. A DNA check on your child might not hurt, either, now I think about it.

your wife is a cheater so I have moved your thread to Coping With Infidelity.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The thing is.....

And I have so noticed, that a happy marriage can be so happy and then can rapid go south.

Quickly, so quickly, it can deteriorate.

It happens when another body, another head, another personality tells one spouse they are wonderful.

The POSOM fed your wife a line. A line of feel-goods.

But, butter, it made her feel good about the new man, and not feel good about the old, you.

She was very happy with you, in your marriage, until she wasn't.
Until, the POSOM stole her past, your past.

He took your good past from you, ah, no, your' wife gave it to him.
She took your' good past and made it bad. She laid a tarnish that which once shined.

Quickly, so quickly.

In truth, POSOM is a word whisperer and a conjurer.
He put a hex on her, she willingly marked the spot.

A wife will not leave her husband for another man without serious deliberation and without multiple seat of the pants, feelings and rides. It was a physical affair.

Of course she will say you were a bad husband, that you were not attentive and are worthy of dumping.
Of course she will say she has not loved you for a long spell, that her heart for you, is not jumping.

She needs to say this to alleviate her guilt. Sounds like she alleviated more than she did own.
Which is next to none, no interest shown on her marital love loan.

To top it off, she cheats with a married man, ruining two families with one stone....cold heart.
Selfish, yes that.





[THM]- TT I


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

you have given a good perceptive 1st analysis of how your marriage failed and taken a good deal of responsibility for it's demise.

that said, i agree that she has broken her vows and decided to lie and cheat and deceive.

yes of course marriage is worth fighting for to the bitter end, but it takes two to fight. she sounds like she just doesn't want to.

shame on her.

so, i would have to agree with the others. start getting ready for the end, and take care of yourself. seek what's best for you and the kids.

i once faced a similar scenario to yours. i tried desperately to save things, but it came a point, i had to give up.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> *To top it off, she cheats with a married man, ruining two families with one stone*....cold heart.
> Selfish, yes that.
> 
> 
> ...


This is what she has done. It is the opposite of noble. Please don't treat this as if it's understandable or easily forgivable.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sarnold said:


> So, some pertinent details. My wife (31) and I (34) have been together 11 years and married for almost 6. We have an amazing 2.5yr old son, a great yellow lab and a home we absolutely love. We both have good careers and used to be madly in love. The only argument we used to have was who loved who more. Not the case anymore. She's completely apathetic toward me and states she has been processing how to divorce me for the last six months, but states she's been unhappy for about 8 years. I just became fully aware of how bad everything really is about 6 weeks ago. Needless to say communication has been the sentinel issue of our relationship. This has completely destroyed my world. Since finding out how bad everything is, I've really reflected and made some positive changes. I've realized and taken accountability for my faults and contributions to our issues and have taken steps to correct them and make sure they never happen again. *I know we can come back from this. *
> 
> Nope, you don't know anything yet. She's rewriting marital history to justify her actions. Pretty common.
> 
> ...


You got one chance here. Full exposure to try and end her affair. Family, friends, especially the other guys wife. Without warning and all at one. Do not tell Her.

Right now you are acting extremely weak and letting her control the narrative.

If you dont'wake up get strong and take charge you have no chance.

*Wake up!!!!!*


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

What you don't realize is your wife is a very typical cheater. Nothing special about this at all except it's happening to you. All the other bull**** is just her babble which you are concentrating on when you should be trying to endher affair. Which is still ongoing.


All you know at this point is what she's telling you and I might add she's lying out her ass. They all do.


Right now you're mowing your lawn while your house is burning down


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> You got one chance here. Full exposure to try and end her affair. Family, friends, especially the other guys wife. Without warning and all at one. Do not tell Her.
> 
> Right now you are acting extremely weak and letting her control the narrative.
> 
> ...


Finally.....

Finally, I have seen Turnera lose her poop. 

I like this.

Patience is what patience does, the dumb dog continues to lay in the road.
No amount of shouting, or coaching or treats will make him move.

He won't move until a damn truck runs over his bushy, noble tail, now made ignoble and bloody flat.





[THM]- THRD


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## sarnold (Jun 9, 2019)

Thank you all for the comments.

In regard to the other man, and who knows if there's truth to this, but she always claimed it was never about wanting to be with him or pursue any relationship with him. They work in the same building and she's always seen him as someone who looks like he'd be good in bed. Things did get physical between them, but not to the point of sex or anything oral. Again, who knows how much truth there is to any of this coming from her. There's also a weird psychological component she described that I think would be hard to make up. She had this friend in high school who, long story short, committed suicide after what sounds like PTSD from the military. She said she always regretted not sleeping with this friend. The guy she had the affair with is also in the military and is getting deployed in a week for up to a year. That was her end game. So she said, she would sleep with him because he looked like he'd be good in bed and prove to herself that she could seduce someone (crazy weird AF thought process if you ask me, especially for a married mom) , he would get deployed, I would never find out and she would live with this dirty little secret. She equated this man she works with to her friend from high school. After I found out about the affair and she claimed there was never any feelings or desire to be with him, she broke it off the next day and claims it was very easy to keep things professional and hasn't been an issue since, especially on his side. She actually said it was almost weird how easy it was for him because it wasn't as easy for her, which to me says there were some feelings. She also said she couldn't sleep with him now because I ruined it. That made me smile inside to know I did that.

In regard to the divorce and some of you saying serve her and in a way go after her. That was never her intention really, nor would it be mine. I could be hateful and bitter and make things ugly, especially with where I am emotionally and all the hate that I've been experiencing, but that's not the person I am. I am bigger than that and a better person than that. She's always said she wants to keep things amicable and be really great co-parents to our son, which if that's the most I'm going to get out of this and it certainly sounds like it is then I think I would be kind of stupid not to do that for the sake of our child if nothing else. If we're done with no hope, which it really sounds like it is and I just need to find a way to accept that, then the focus shifts entirely to my son and making sure he still has the best life he can with two parents who love him even if we aren't with each other. Turning things ugly toward her in a divorce is not going to make that process any easier. We've already agreed upon most of everything. We're going thru mediation, not lawyers, no child support, joint legal/physical custody, not coming after each other in any way. I'm just having a horribly difficult time accepting my wife wants a divorce without even wanting to try to work on things. It's unfathomable to me and seemingly incredibly grossly out of character for her, although I question that as the days go by. This also sounds like a chemical imbalance and wonder if there is a component of bipolar disorder.

I honestly think she isn't entirely sure what she truly wants, but right now her independence and freedom and a life without me sounds better than a life with me and working on things and being a family and fighting for what we have. I, along with most of our friends and family, some of whom are in psychoanalysis fields, think that she is very confused and hasn't thought this through. She thinks the grass is greener on the other side. It's not. I have a hard time believing most women wouldn't want a man that will do anything for them and make sure they are happy and feel loved, respected and appreciated every day and provide for them and their children and make sure things are taken care of and are quick to forgive and not hold on to grudges and are happy and positive. Women reading this, does that sound horrible to you? Apparently it does to my wife. This is all a pattern for her that she's engaged in her entire life with every relationship she's ever had. When things get tough, shut down and run. I really hope counseling helps her and she learns to let go of these destructive behaviors and I hope for her sake it doesn't come flooding down on her all at once and one day she wakes up and realizes what she threw away and wants me back because there's very little chance I'll be there down the road. I'll be there to support her and help her because she's the mother of my child and if she's not good then that can affect my child negatively, so in a way I'll always be there for her, but she better abide by agreements and play nice.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You can do better, why don't you think so?


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

You realize what is going on here OP, right? Your wife has allowed herself to not only cheat on YOU, but also to be complicit with MM in stepping out on/breaking up HIS marriage and family. Meanwhile MM has no problem cheating on HIS wife and being complicit to breaking up YOUR family. And yet here you are, accepting your wife's rewriting of your marital history painting YOU as the bad guy here, as you beat yourself up for those couple of times in 2014 when you didn't remember to pick up some milk on the way home from work. Doesn't this sound nuts to you too?

If she truly "wasn't happy", why didn't she come tell you? So the way she felt justified in handling her "unhappiness" was to go do a number on you AND her/your son? Good riddance to her!!


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I have a slightly different policy on replying to things like this, which is that as far as I can, I'll go with what the poster *says they want*. Not that I necessarily think the previous posts are mistaken. My angle is just a bit different. 


sarnold said:


> states she's been unhappy for about 8 years.


Which was before you got married? Did you really have no idea she was unhappy all this time? Nothing gave you a clue? She never said anything?



> Needless to say communication has been the sentinel issue of our relationship.


It's amazing to me how, no matter what problems they bring, couples always start by saying "the problem is communications". 



> Since finding out how bad everything is, I've really reflected and made some positive changes. I've realized and taken accountability for my faults and contributions to our issues and have taken steps to correct them and make sure they never happen again.


Well, maybe you've started. It takes a lot longer than 6 weeks. 



> Sadly, to my wife, it's too little too late and she states she's too far gone to come back, but I either don't want to believe that


Start by believing things she says.



> I feel like I know what I need to do, but have absolutely horrible execution of it. I know *she doesn't want to talk about us *unless in a counseling session. ... I don't want to talk about us knowing that it's only pushing her further away and the fact that no woman wants to see a man begging and pleading and seeming desperate as that is in no way an attractive trait, but *I can't seem to stop* talking about us.


You say you want it so much ... and you know what you need to do ... but you don't do it? You keep doing the thing she doesn't want?



> An affair I immediately forgave.


 That doesn't work.



> The hardest pill for me to swallow is that couples can and often do come back from these issues. Sometimes it takes years, but you keep working at it and it can produce a love so much deeper than you had before.


Yes, sometimes. 



> It all started with my negativity. I was never negative toward her or directed it at her, but she would internalize everything and make it personal. So, me providing a negative atmosphere didn't matter who or what it was about. The negativity in and of itself did it.


That makes sense. Nobody wants to be around a negative person. Okay, so what was all that negativity about? You need to fix that, whether it is for her, for your next relationship, or for your children. 



> She says she would try to talk to me about things, but I wouldn't understand, or dismissed it, or just didn't listen.


 Same comment - you need to fix that, whether it's for her or not. 



> Am I crazy to keep fighting for this?


Depends what you mean by fighting. If you mean trying to implement YOUR plan, and ignoring what she says SHE wants, then you are just making it worse. 

And, what she says she wants is the same as what most posters here are advising you to do. But it sounds like you may be making her feel bad for wanting it. 



> she just needs to let go of the resentment and see what an amazing man, husband and father you are


Ouch. Maybe one day you will read that and wince.

(Note - this was composed before OP's second post)


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## Oldtimer (May 25, 2018)

Sarnold, sorry to see you here. There’s a couple things from your posts that I would like to point out.

you’ve been together for 11 years, married for 6, 2.5 yo child. This begs the question that if she was unhappy for 8 years, why did she marry you and have a child with you? I would call bull**** on anything other than she felt safe with a beta. If she tries to come off as being fearful or non imposing, I would call bull**** on that as well. She has no problems telling you this 


“In regard to the other man, and who knows if there's truth to this, but she always claimed it was never about wanting to be with him or pursue any relationship with him. They work in the same building and she's always seen him as someone who looks like he'd be good in bed. Things did get physical between them, but not to the point of sex or anything oral. Again, who knows how much truth there is to any of this coming from her. There's also a weird psychological component she described that I think would be hard to make up. She had this friend in high school who, long story short, committed suicide after what sounds like PTSD from the military. She said she always regretted not sleeping with this friend. The guy she had the affair with is also in the military and is getting deployed in a week for up to a year. That was her end game. So she said, she would sleep with him because he looked like he'd be good in bed and prove to herself that she could seduce someone (crazy weird AF thought process if you ask me, especially for a married mom) , he would get deployed, I would never find out and she would live with this dirty little secret. She equated this man she works with to her friend from high school. After I found out about the affair and she claimed there was never any feelings or desire to be with him, she broke it off the next day and claims it was very easy to keep things professional and hasn't been an issue since, especially on his side. She actually said it was almost weird how easy it was for him because it wasn't as easy for her, which to me says there were some feelings. She also said she couldn't sleep with him now because I ruined it. That made me smile inside to know I did that”.

By the way, I call bull**** on her last comment as well, I also feel that there may be more to her than what you know!

180
Talk to lawyer
STD tests
DNA

Now understand that these are just my thoughts, feel free to take heed or disregard.

I wish the best for you and your precious child.

OT


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sarnold said:


> Thank you all for the comments.
> 
> In regard to the other man, and who knows if there's truth to this, but she always claimed it was never about wanting to be with him or pursue any relationship with him. They work in the same building and she's always seen him as someone who looks like he'd be good in bed. Things did get physical between them, but not to the point of sex or anything oral. Again, who knows how much truth there is to any of this coming from her. There's also a weird psychological component she described that I think would be hard to make up. She had this friend in high school who, long story short, committed suicide after what sounds like PTSD from the military. She said she always regretted not sleeping with this friend. The guy she had the affair with is also in the military and is getting deployed in a week for up to a year. That was her end game. So she said, she would sleep with him because he looked like he'd be good in bed and prove to herself that she could seduce someone (crazy weird AF thought process if you ask me, especially for a married mom) , he would get deployed, I would never find out and she would live with this dirty little secret. She equated this man she works with to her friend from high school. After I found out about the affair and she claimed there was never any feelings or desire to be with him, she broke it off the next day and claims it was very easy to keep things professional and hasn't been an issue since, especially on his side. She actually said it was almost weird how easy it was for him because it wasn't as easy for her, which to me says there were some feelings. She also said she couldn't sleep with him now because I ruined it. That made me smile inside to know I did that.
> 
> ...


Why would she do that? You've already shown her you'll lay down and rollover.

You're either incredibly naive or cowardly. Maybe a combination of both. 

Either way I'm sure you'll justify being (the bigger man). From what you've posted it's just doormatish behavior.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This is all about lying. She is now a dishonest person in your relationship. She is not the person you thought you were married to. Cheating is about manipulating your spouse so that you can get what your ego tells you you are entitled to have.

People, as a species, follow the same behavioral patterns when trying to manipulate to their advantage. They lie (= gaslight), they rewrite the marital history, shift the blame, justify their lies and vow breaking in order to not feel like a pos. She is doing all of this. It is part of the behavioral pattern that is common to infidelity (from The Chumplady):

****************
_"How else to explain the eerie similarities between every cheater?

Seriously, there’s only so many ways to manipulate someone. (... Convince them to doubt their senses (gaslighting), punish them for truth-telling (rage, abuse), divert them with chaos, insist they take responsibility for their own oppression (blame-shifting).

These dynamics are universal to humankind. And it’s not just cheaters — it’s anyone in any system trying to gain unfair advantage over another. “You don’t deserve voting rights, you’re not ready yet.” The entitled will always seek excuses as to why their entitlement is Right and Proper."
....
I do think that many cheaters have huge senses of entitlement that were fed as children. You’re a very special golden child, better than all the other children. They weren’t called out on their selfishness, instead their “superiority” was celebrated and encouraged.

We do children a disservice when we don’t force them to take responsibility for their actions. Every parent knows how hard it is not to rescue or spackle for our kid. “Well, you failed that class because the teacher was a terrible teacher who couldn’t teach!” Instead of letting them learn from consequences — kid takes the failing grade and the humiliation that goes with it.

Will our children grow up to be cheaters? I sure hope not! But of course, part of that answer is US. It’s not just what we say to children, it’s what we DO, what we model, what we tolerate in our lives that teaches them how the world works. If children grow up in a cheater/chump household, who do you think they’re going to want to be? The powerful, “happy” person who gets all the kibbles and advantages, or the sad, put upon chump, resentfully eating **** sandwiches to keep the peace?

You want to teach your kids to be mighty? Push the mean kid off the slide if he won’t take turns. Stand up for yourself. Don’t take crap — and your kids won’t either."_
******************

When you just accept her lying and manipulation, you are modeling weakness and bowing to her assumptions of entitlement. You are also covering for her. You should inform the OM's betrayed wife.

Your posts sound like the excuses that run through our heads when we are first dealing with the shock of betrayal. We understand that, but you need to wake up and start standing up for yourself. If you're divorcing, then do a 180 with your WW and get an attorney to protect your rights. Stop accepting and rationalizing her manipulation. She has put herself in charge of your life, but, correct me if I'm wrong, it's your life that you are living, not hers. You need, first and foremost, to be a good father. That means honorable and honest. These are qualities that she is not modeling. You must do that work.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

If a friend or your brother had told you the tangled web of lies and self justification regarding what she did or didn't do with the co worker that may or may not be deployed soon what would you say?

She is 31 and using a high school missed opportunity crush on a dead guy to explain why she was with a different guy....Sorry friend, she's giving you a snow job.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

sarnold said:


> Thank you all for the comments.
> 
> In regard to the other man, and who knows if there's truth to this, but she always claimed it was never about wanting to be with him or pursue any relationship with him. They work in the same building and she's always seen him as someone who looks like he'd be good in bed. Things did get physical between them, but not to the point of sex or anything oral. Again, who knows how much truth there is to any of this coming from her. There's also a weird psychological component she described that I think would be hard to make up. She had this friend in high school who, long story short, committed suicide after what sounds like PTSD from the military. She said she always regretted not sleeping with this friend. The guy she had the affair with is also in the military and is getting deployed in a week for up to a year. That was her end game. So she said, she would sleep with him because he looked like he'd be good in bed and prove to herself that she could seduce someone (crazy weird AF thought process if you ask me, especially for a married mom) , he would get deployed, I would never find out and she would live with this dirty little secret. She equated this man she works with to her friend from high school. After I found out about the affair and she claimed there was never any feelings or desire to be with him, she broke it off the next day and claims it was very easy to keep things professional and hasn't been an issue since, especially on his side. She actually said it was almost weird how easy it was for him because it wasn't as easy for her, which to me says there were some feelings. She also said she couldn't sleep with him now because I ruined it. That made me smile inside to know I did that.
> 
> ...


If your in agreement on everything divorce wise just have a lawyer write it up and submit it, mediation is unnecessary if you agree on everything. You'll also never in a million years get away with no child support and that's the first thing a mediator will point out. She's playing you right now because she doesn't want you rocking the boat. The affair is still going on btw, it has been going on much longer than you realize. Have you told the om wife about what you know yet?


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

No one has said to blow anything up. In terms of the divorce, just stop fighting the administrative part about it and quit talking about getting back together. She has ALREADY rejected "this version" of you - why do you insist on amplifying it? You need to READ about the 180 and implement. You understand that concept though, you state it in your first few paragraphs. And then proceed to rationalize why you're not going to do it...


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

It's been the same story in every relationship she's ever had.

You say that this is incredibly out of character for her.

Can you explain?


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Here is what you should have said when she told you she wanted a divorce:

Goodbye.




You are a doormat of the highest order. You are in a dysfunctional relationship and so co-dependent you cannot even see it.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

sarnold said:


> My wife (31) and I (34) have been together 11 years and married for almost 6. We have an amazing 2.5yr old son a great yellow lab and a home we absolutely love. We both have good careers and used to be madly in love. The only argument we used to have was who loved who more. Not the case anymore. She's completely apathetic toward me and states she has been processing how to divorce me for the last six months, but states she's been unhappy for about 8 years. I just became fully aware of how bad everything really is about 6 weeks ago.


 She got married to you less than 6 years ago, had a child with you 2.5 years ago, and yet after she cheated on you claims just 6 weeks ago that “she’s been unhappy for about 8 years”. If she was already unhappy with the relationship with you why would she have married you? There was no child bonding the two of you together. Also, if she were so unhappy, why would she then have a child with you? The answer to both questions is she is lying and has reinvented your relationship history in order to rationalize her cheating.

Stop letting her walk all over you as she prepares to leave you for another man. Cheaters always have the upper hand, because while this is all new to you, they have been plotting against you behind your back for a long time. They already have an exit plan and partner, while you are starting from scratch, with the cheater doing it when it is most convenient for them. She has declared war on you and your child’s happiness. You must stand up to her and fight.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Your first mistake was rolling over and forgiving her. You said yourself begging pleading is unattractive. This is in the same category. Take it from me you don't want her to stay unless she changes and wants to stay. My wife told me she didn't love me anymore 17 years ago. ( ILYBNILWY). I begged, pleaded coerced her into staying. This has been the worst 17 years of my life. I wished I would have valued myself more back then. I should have told her go and have a good life, because I know I will.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

This woman, Sarnold's wife, is so off-center, so logically cold, bold, horny and skewed, she could have never just drifted to this, her present thinking condition?

My point?

She was always this way, has always been this, this low boundary (free me from you, person).

She has likely cheated all along, before the ring, throughout your marriage, into to it, now heading out.

This is who she is, has always been. 

Surprise, surprise.





[THM]- THRD


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Give her what she wants, but quickly. Either it will be better and easier for you both, or it will make her reconsider. Win-win.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

sarnold said:


> She says she hoped for so many years the man she fell in love with would come back and that if that happened things could be great again.
> 
> She had this friend in high school ... She said she always regretted not sleeping with this friend. The guy she had the affair with is also in the military and is getting deployed in a week for up to a year. That was her end game. So she said, she would sleep with him because *he looked like he'd be good in bed* and prove to herself that she could seduce someone ... I would never find out and she would live with this dirty little secret.


Reading this, it seems her decision to cheat is completely apart from her decision to leave. She wants to leave because you were not the man you used to be according to her. Her decision to cheat was based on the guy being similar to a guy she wanted to seduce before, nothing about you at all. 

How does the fact that she was disappointed in you have anything to do with her wanting to seduce a fill-in from her high school crush?

Unfortunately I have heard a number of times when women wanted to gift their sex to a guy they deem deserving, make the poor guy happy. I have not heard of a woman carry this forward for years, though I kind of think this isn't the thing women usually are open about. In a way it's good, because it would be so odd. In a way it's bad because she believes that way, and now she actually did tell you about it.

In any event, it seems she's been messed up for a very long time, at least since high school.

Plus, *he looked like he'd be good in bed.*

Could you please relay to me from her how she decides who will a guy be good in bed? Clothes, grooming, attitude, physical attributes?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

sarnold said:


> I'm just having a horribly difficult time accepting my wife wants a divorce without even wanting to try to work on things. It's unfathomable to me and seemingly incredibly grossly out of character for her, although I question that as the days go by. This also sounds like a chemical imbalance and wonder if there is a component of bipolar disorder.


Uh, no, I don't think your wife has any psychological "disorder." What she has is a cheating "disorder." This is most likely her exit affair. She's been unhappy in the marriage for years, and she found a guy who - at the moment - makes her hot and horny.



sarnold said:


> I have a hard time believing most women wouldn't want a man that will do anything for them and make sure they are happy and feel loved, respected and appreciated every day and provide for them and their children and make sure things are taken care of and are quick to forgive and not hold on to grudges and are happy and positive. Women reading this, does that sound horrible to you?


No, it doesn't sound horrible to me. But you are playing your hand from a position of weakness rather than strength. Again, speaking as a woman, I want a man who is confident, self-assured, and won't tolerate crap from me or anyone else. It sounds like you are willing to move heaven and earth to save the marriage. The thing is, your wife has had sexual relations with another man. That in itself is enough to make a strong man go ballistic, see an attorney, and tell her to go pound sand. 

So that's a simplistic explanation of strong vs. weak. 

P.S. - I don't wat a man who will do anything for me. Why? Because that says to me if I tell him to do unreasonable, ridiculous stuff and he always wants to kowtow to me requests, I'd consider him weak. See what I mean?


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## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

You should contact the OM's wife. That should take care of a whole lot of your immediate problems. Let her do the work for you...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

member2012 said:


> You should contact the OM's wife. That should take care of a whole lot of your immediate problems. Let her do the work for you...


This is the best action at this time. He is to affraid to do it so hides behind the "I'm the bigger person" which is just an excuse to avoid conflict.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Speaking as a woman, I can tell you that your wife is done. You are doing all the heavy lifting to make the marriage survive. She is not emotionally invested in saving the marriage. She is already invested in another man.
> 
> Salvage your pride and dignity. Respect her desire to leave. Then serve her with divorce papers and show her the door. Trust me, she's done.


This. 100%.


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## GoldenR (Jan 6, 2019)

There's the way you are believing things, and then there's the truth. 

What she says: She's been out of love with you for 8 months, but just started showing it 6 weeks ago. 

Truth: Everything was fine until 6 weeks ago which is when the A started. At least the EA side of it anyway. 

What she says: They haven't had sex. 

Truth: Started having sex as much as possible shortly before she started talking about D

What she says: Hes not leaving his W.

Truth: This is probably true. Although I would bet it's more of a "Why should I leave my wife when you're still with your husband?!" thing. She thinks she's doingwhat he wants her to do. I doubt he ever leaves his W.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sarnold said:


> I'm just having a horribly difficult time accepting my wife wants a divorce without even wanting to try to work on things. It's unfathomable to me and seemingly incredibly grossly out of character for her, although I question that as the days go by. This also sounds like a chemical imbalance and wonder if there is a component of bipolar disorder.


She doesnt have a damn disorder. She is DONE with you and your marriage. She took the cowardly way out and cheated instead of telling you she wants out. Stop grasping for lame excuses and see this for what it is. 




sarnold said:


> I honestly think she isn't entirely sure what she truly wants, but right now her independence and freedom and a life without me sounds better than a life with me and working on things and being a family and fighting for what we have. I, along with most of our friends and family, some of whom are in psychoanalysis fields, think that she is very confused and hasn't thought this through. She thinks the grass is greener on the other side. It's not. I have a hard time believing most women wouldn't want a man that will do anything for them and make sure they are happy and feel loved, respected and appreciated every day and provide for them and their children and make sure things are taken care of and are quick to forgive and not hold on to grudges and are happy and positive. Women reading this, does that sound horrible to you? Apparently it does to my wife. This is all a pattern for her that she's engaged in her entire life with every relationship she's ever had. When things get tough, shut down and run. I really hope counseling helps her and she learns to let go of these destructive behaviors and I hope for her sake it doesn't come flooding down on her all at once and one day she wakes up and realizes what she threw away and wants me back because there's very little chance I'll be there down the road. I'll be there to support her and help her because she's the mother of my child and if she's not good then that can affect my child negatively, so in a way I'll always be there for her, but she better abide by agreements and play nice.


You are completely minimizing and dismissing her feelings. Is this what you have always done in this relationship? Because that WILL push a woman away emotionally. Stop acting like her feelings are not valid because they dont line up with what you want or how you feel. You are making yourself out to be husband of the year in this post but you arent, clearly, or she would not have been feeling unhappiness for so many years. You mentioned your negativity and tone of disregard when it came to the feelings of others... those are serious issues to live with. Especially the negativity, it is an absolute life suck to live with a negative person. 

She was completely in the wrong to go and have an affair, no matter how unhappy she has been in the marriage though, that choice is on her and no one else. So dont think I am excusing her because I am not. But you sitting here acting as if her feelings and concerns are not real or valid or important is wrong, and sorry but it irks me. 

She wants out. Let her go. Have some dignity and some self respect.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

sarnold, you should read No More Mister Nice Guy and/or Three Marriage Enigmas


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

sarnold said:


> I have a hard time believing most women wouldn't want a man that will do anything for them and make sure they are happy and feel loved, respected and appreciated every day and provide for them and their children and make sure things are taken care of and are quick to forgive and not hold on to grudges and are happy and positive.


You have a hard time believing it because you don't understand women my man. Women want a challenge; not a guy who will do anything for them. The vast majority of husbands on this site whose wife are humping another guy sounds like you. Your biggest problem is believing you're going to somehow make her understand what a wonderful guy you are and she'll just forget about these guys that "look like they'd be good in bed". I can tell from your comments about how she wished she'd banged this guy and seduce that guy that this chick is hot to trot. I'd bet this cat she now has her hooks in, and likely legs spread for, is not her first rodeo.
Here' the thing Dawg, and Prodigal said it in post 4, she's done. Once a woman loses interest in you, it ain't coming back. Set her free my man and save yourself additional heartache. However, if you want to go the "hot wife" route, she may be amenable. Check with her and see.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP when a woman is done, she's done. There's no coming back from that. You begging and pleading, trying to work it out will only push her further away.

She says she's been unhappy for 8 years? Well why did she marry you 6 years ago? And have a child 2.5 years ago? Alot of cheaters tend to rewrite history, to try to justify their cheating. You'll likely find that's what your wife is doing now.

That doesn't mean that you didn't listen when she tried over and over and over again to tell you how she was feeling and what she needed from you. The sad truth is that most men just don't see the marriage is in trouble until it reaches this point, and it's already too late. It literally blindsides them. Doesn't change the fact that she's done.

Man up, file for divorce and have her served. Insist on 50/50 custody and go nuclear on her re child support/alimony the whole shebang. There should be consequences for destroying a family, big ones. And expose her and her POSOM to EVERYONE.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

sarnold said:


> Thank you all for the comments.
> 
> In regard to the other man, and who knows if there's truth to this, but she always claimed it was never about wanting to be with him or pursue any relationship with him. They work in the same building and she's always seen him as someone who looks like he'd be good in bed. Things did get physical between them, but not to the point of sex or anything oral. Again, who knows how much truth there is to any of this coming from her. There's also a weird psychological component she described that I think would be hard to make up. She had this friend in high school who, long story short, committed suicide after what sounds like PTSD from the military. She said she always regretted not sleeping with this friend. The guy she had the affair with is also in the military and is getting deployed in a week for up to a year. That was her end game. So she said, she would sleep with him because he looked like he'd be good in bed and prove to herself that she could seduce someone (crazy weird AF thought process if you ask me, especially for a married mom) , he would get deployed, I would never find out and she would live with this dirty little secret. She equated this man she works with to her friend from high school. After I found out about the affair and she claimed there was never any feelings or desire to be with him, she broke it off the next day and claims it was very easy to keep things professional and hasn't been an issue since, especially on his side. She actually said it was almost weird how easy it was for him because it wasn't as easy for her, which to me says there were some feelings. She also said she couldn't sleep with him now because I ruined it. That made me smile inside to know I did that.
> 
> ...


They do, but those aren't necessarily the same guys they want to have sex with. One generally has nothing to do with the other.



> The hardest pill for me to swallow *is that couples can and often do come back from these issues. Sometimes it takes years, but you keep working at it and it can produce a love so much deeper than you had before.* The problem with this is the work part of it. I feel I have put in tremendous effort and will continue to do so, if for nothing else, my own benefit, but there has been no effort on her part. She says she's so far gone and there's so much resentment on her part that she doesn't even want to try. How can you not want to try to save your marriage and your family. She says she hoped for so many years the man she fell in love with would come back and that if that happened things could be great again. I know who that person is, how he was lost and that he is coming back and is already in the process of it. If what you had hoped would happen for so long finally starts to happen, why then would you throw in the towel?


Not sure where you got this idea, but from what and how you have described this situation in your two posts, it is really the exact opposite of this. Nor will she ever wake up and have some amazing revelation of the wonderful things she threw away. They don't come crawling back, because in most cases, what ever it is that they left, they were actually unhappy with, and aren't going to miss it.

You need to start listening to your wife, and act and plan accordingly.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

After a bit further pondering on this and framing my thoughts, I think the affair is more a side note than anything that just indicates how far gone she is and has been. I think she has been done for such a long time and so completely, that she sees her marriage as something that is actually over, dead, and buried, just lacking the formality of a divorce.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

Sorry Bud- I had a wife like that, and you are done. Our counseling sessions were also me trying to make something work, and her transitioning to divorce. The longer you try and hang on, the worse it will get.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

sarnold said:


> Thank you all for the comments.
> 
> In regard to the other man, and who knows if there's truth to this, but she always claimed it was never about wanting to be with him or pursue any relationship with him. They work in the same building and she's always seen him as someone who looks like he'd be good in bed. Things did get physical between them, but not to the point of sex or anything oral. Again, who knows how much truth there is to any of this coming from her. There's also a weird psychological component she described that I think would be hard to make up. She had this friend in high school who, long story short, committed suicide after what sounds like PTSD from the military. She said she always regretted not sleeping with this friend. The guy she had the affair with is also in the military and is getting deployed in a week for up to a year. That was her end game. So she said, she would sleep with him because he looked like he'd be good in bed and prove to herself that she could seduce someone (crazy weird AF thought process if you ask me, especially for a married mom) , he would get deployed, I would never find out and she would live with this dirty little secret. She equated this man she works with to her friend from high school. After I found out about the affair and she claimed there was never any feelings or desire to be with him, she broke it off the next day and claims it was very easy to keep things professional and hasn't been an issue since, especially on his side. She actually said it was almost weird how easy it was for him because it wasn't as easy for her, which to me says there were some feelings. She also said she couldn't sleep with him now because I ruined it. That made me smile inside to know I did that.
> 
> ...


You are really trying to talk yourself and other people into this working, but it is 100% not going to work out. There are a lot of great guys who get dumped on. The whole idea that they will come crawling back after getting this out of their system is a myth too. She's already out. The rest of your life would be like this if you stay together. Is that what you want?


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## SunWhiskey (May 21, 2019)

sarnold said:


> So, some pertinent details. My wife (31) and I (34) have been together 11 years and married for almost 6. We have an amazing 2.5yr old son, a great yellow lab and a home we absolutely love. We both have good careers and used to be madly in love. The only argument we used to have was who loved who more. Not the case anymore. She's completely apathetic toward me and states she has been processing how to divorce me for the last six months, but states she's been unhappy for about 8 years. I just became fully aware of how bad everything really is about 6 weeks ago. Needless to say communication has been the sentinel issue of our relationship. This has completely destroyed my world. Since finding out how bad everything is, I've really reflected and made some positive changes. I've realized and taken accountability for my faults and contributions to our issues and have taken steps to correct them and make sure they never happen again. I know we can come back from this.
> 
> To me, this is in no way strong enough to destroy what we have and what we have overcome in our relationship. We've been through some hardships with our families in relation to deaths, major sickness, parental divorce, etc. In my mind, this is my wife and my family. I'll never stop fighting for them. Marriage is not something that has a finite amount of effort you put in (unless abusive, which it has never been, nor will be), it is not something you stop trying at. To me, marriage is not the happy good times. Marriage is when things are bad and down in the ditch and you have to work at it with each other to overcome, grow and do better and be better. Marriage is something you have to work at every day. I fully understand that now. Sadly, to my wife, it's too little too late and she states she's too far gone to come back, but I either don't want to believe that knowing that people are redeemable and can come back from anything, or I just can't seem to accept that my marriage is most likely over.
> 
> ...




Reading this, I pretty much could have been the one who wrote it. I'm a few months ahead of where you are at now. Get used to the idea, because you are about to be single. Go find a lawyer ASAP to protect whatever you have. She is checked out, and there is nothing you can say or do that will override her emotions. Throw logic out the window. Trust me on this part.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Are they both in the military?

If so what are the ranks?

Given the timeline in your original post, I would DNA your child.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She has been lying to you and she is still lying. Your story is identical to thousands of threads here. That is how we know you are messing this whole thing up. You have only seen the tip of the iceberg. Your wife and every other cheater follows the same script.

Do what you have been doing never works. It’s called the pick me dance. Read more threads, especially the longer, older threads.

Your wife is still in the affair. They still work together. He’s leaving on a tour. Really? Who told you that? A liar? Talk to his wife. Not letting her know makes you part of their infidelity. She deserves to know. It’s the most important thing that has happened to her marriage and she is blind to it. 

The good news is by doing all the wrong things you will end up minus one cheating spouse. Take charge and get off the hopium pipe. Do not leave your house, make her leave. Go for primary custody. No, cheating women do NOT MAKE GOOD MOTHERS. 

Do the 180. Tell her to take her counseling and plant it where the sun doesn’t shine. At least give her something to respect instead of the whipped puppy dog she’s beating now.

Inform his superiors, he has let his country down.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

You wife does not have a disorder. She is not ill. She is not confused.

Your wife cheated on your and betrayed your vows, and she is rewriting the story of your marriage ti justify it. She is full of crap, to put it bluntly. And every time you beg her, she just does an inward eyeroll and loathes you more.

True forgiveness comes AFTER repentance. She has no remorse. She blames YOU. She is likely till cheating.

The best course of action is to give her the divorce she wants in a manner that is most advantageous to YOU in terms of settlement and custody.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sarnold said:


> Thank you all for the comments.
> 
> In regard to the other man, and who knows if there's truth to this, but she always claimed it was never about wanting to be with him or pursue any relationship with him.


Bull****. You know it is. Nothing major was wrong with your marriage until she had another guy to fall back on. She tried on another guy and she's addicted to the allure of the affair. Cheating creates the same feel-good phermones as a drug addiction; it makes you like, sneak, and hurt people just to keep getting the feel good. I guarantee he strung her along and told her to leave her husband so he could leave his wife.

If you want to save your marriage, you MUST EXPOSE THE AFFAIR. I say this with 10 years of experience helping men in your exact same shoes. Nothing else works when the wife is cheating. Her parents, siblings, or any other important people in her life have to know that she's cheating on you. You call them and say that she's cheating but you want to save the marriage but it can only happen if she gives up the other man. You say that you're willing to look at any issues she may have with you, but none of them were enough to cause her to cheat. You're asking for their support to talk to her and let her know they will not support her fantasy.

She needs to see, hear, and feel that this fantasy she's having will NOT turn out well, she'll be ostracized and looked down upon if she doesn't stop it, admit it was a mistake, and do what she can to make up for the damage she's caused.

Will exposure make her mad? Of course it will. It's supposed to. She has to see that it's a mistake to cheat. And she has to end all contact with the OM so that she stops getting the PEA chemicals in her body that make her feel addicted to him. Once that happens, the 'affair fog' will go away and she will be able to think clearly again. Your marriage can survive her anger; it can't survive another man.

And what have you got to lose? She wants to leave anyway.


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## sarnold (Jun 9, 2019)

All, thank you for the comments. A lot of those were pretty tough to read, but something I need to hear and have heard. I know I need to let go and move on. I know she's done and wants out and has been out. It's really difficult for me to do so because I still love her and love my family. I don't think that makes a me a weak person, or not have any dignity, or make me a doormat. If anything I think that shows strength in me as a person that I'm willing to work on things and forgive and understand it takes a lot of constant effort to make relationships work. I think it shows immense weakness on her part to have an affair and ditch our marriage and family as opposed to sitting down like adults and having a honest conversation. The part where I feel like a sucker is wanting it to work when she clearly doesn't and still hoping she comes to a realization that she might. That is not going to happen anytime in the near future, if ever, despite her telling me she could see us getting back together in a couple years. Which, at this point and time, her saying that is complete BS. If you want out so bad, then be the F out. You don't get to keep me on the back burner and seriously, F you for thinking you can. At the same time though, she has also told me half a dozen times throughout these last six weeks that we would work on it. That she was happy we were working on it and telling all our friends and family she's happy she decided to stay and work on things. So, really, I don't entirely blame myself for wanting and hoping things would work. It would come with the understanding of a lot of counseling and work for both of us individually as well as together and without that, it would most definitely fail and if I'm really being honest with myself and heed the information and comments of others I'd be stupid to go back at all, let alone without that understanding and commitment to work on it all.

There's so many questions I feel I'll never get an honest answer to. One of the biggest ones is, and probably always will be, is why did we have a child almost 3 years ago if you've been unhappy for so long? Why did we get married almost 6 years ago if you're sticking by this 8 year timeline? Why are you still here in June if you reached your point of no return in January? I've asked these questions several times, but don't ever really get a real answer. It's along the lines of "well we had good times", or "I thought it might fix things and you'd be happy", or the most abundant answer I've ever got from her throughout our relationship, the almighty "I don't know". But, like so many of you have said, cheaters do nothing but lie and try to rewrite history to justify their narrative.

I know I haven't been "husband of the year" by any stretch. I have many faults and shortcomings, just like every other person out there. I've been a negative person and won't make any excuses to downplay that. I've identified it, taken accountability for it and am working to improve it through counseling and other ways. I know my tone was wrong and apathetic of others feelings. I'm working to show more empathy to others and watch my tone when I speak. I've been impatient with others and with myself, but am working on it and understand it. My wife has actually acknowledged all the work I've been putting in and changes I've been making several times. It also seems in a sense of "good for you, I'm proud of you", but I don't care. It would probably be easy to say I've been a $hitty person at times, as most people are every now and then, but I'm trying to fix it and am seeking skills and guidance to achieve that. I guess at the end of the day I want to make sure I can look back and say I tried and gave it 100%. I know I played a significant part in creating these problems in our relationship, but I've taken accountability for it and am rectifying it, for myself, if for nobody else. I just can't believe I can't say the same about her and will probably never be able to or understand it. Especially since when we talk and she shows the sadness and pain she's feeling and saying she's going to miss the good times and that she's sorry and knows I don't deserve this and never meant to hurt me (which the more I think about it is BS, she doesn't care she did this to me or us or our family). I'm probably just reading into it and it would be a lot more healthy for me if I just wouldn't, but at times she seems like she thinks about it and wonders if she's making the right decision. Honestly, though, I just need to F-ing stop and not think about it or worry about it. It's not my problem anymore. I really want to stop. I'm sick of feeling like this and giving her so much control. She doesn't deserve any of it. I deserve someone that will love me for me and want to be with me. Not someone that has one foot out the door and is always looking for something better. If you haven't noticed during these posts, I'm quite conflicted. I wish I could shut my brain off.

I feel like it would be a lot easier if we didn't have a child because then I could just erase her entirely, but that's not reality. The reality is I will still have to see her and talk to her damn near daily for the sake of our child. I worry that until I've truly moved on, seeing her and interacting with her is going to prolong the healing and seemingly rip off the scab each time sort of thing. The process is moving forward. Not that it's going to be easy, but the mediation is scheduled and I've found an apartment I'll be moving in to. Everything is separated and the house is going on the market soon. I still just can't believe this happened. The pain and devastation is unreal. Screw her for having an affair and all that, but a lot of it is on me as well. I'm not dismissing her feelings, I know it took a long time for her to get here and I see the avenue I provided for it to get here. A lot of it is on her as well too. She could have tried harder. We both could have done things very different. It's just too bad we won't get a chance to. Oh the beauty of reflection and hindsight. It will always be one of my largest failures not seeing it or understanding it earlier. Had I caught her pain earlier, I can confidently say this could have been avoided and I wouldn't be on this forum. In the end though, I will move forward and find someone great. Life will go on and I'll have this lesson to learn from and improve myself with.


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## SunWhiskey (May 21, 2019)

sarnold said:


> I don't think that makes a me a weak person, or not have any dignity, or make me a doormat. If anything I think that shows strength in me as a person that I'm willing to work on things and forgive and understand it takes a lot of constant effort to make relationships work. I think it shows immense weakness on her part to have an affair and ditch our marriage and family as opposed to sitting down like adults and having a honest conversation.


You are right about her, but here is the kicker. You have to come to terms with what we said. Any "trying to make it work, begging, pleading, being nice, etc." is not going to work. You want her back. It's natural. It's the easiest way to end the pain. It helps to rationalize that you are "stronger" because you were willing to look past the affair. I told myself the same BS. You'll come to terms that this isn't the truth. It's seemingly the easy way out. "Get things back like they were, just by working hard at it." Sorry. Not happening. Harsh reality check.

It takes more strength to let go and move on. But guess what? That is what you have to do. That is what I have to do as well. Let me tell you, it's ****ing hard. I'm a few months ahead in your story, and it does get better. The pain will come in waves. That's ok. It's best to face the grief head on. Cry, vent, break some ****. Remember everything the two of you had together and all the future plans you had. It may seem counter-intuitive, but the more you face the grief head on the easier it becomes. If you are a man, you won't let your friends see you cry, but you will feel better afterwards. 


And when I say I'm a few months ahead in your story, I also have a child who recently turned 3. So I have to keep regular contact. You won't have the strength not to stalk her on social media, so unfollow her, etc. Trust me on this. I only did this recently. You will see that new guy liking the pic she just posted with the "new me, new haircut" BS and it will ****ing hurt. Best not to know because it's no longer any of your business. In my situation, after only a few months, she's dated several guys who have all cheated on her, including the original other man. The karma was only temporarily satisfying.


I've set this quote as the background to my phone. It may do nothing for you, but I like seeing it. It's a constant reminder to stay strong.

"Don't let a wishbone grow where your backbone should be."


I also did my fair share of blaming myself for the times I was negative or could have been a better husband. I also blamed her communication, etc. Here's what you need to focus on. It doesn't matter anymore. Address your issues for your future relationships, but don't get hung up on what should have and could have been.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

SongoftheSouth said:


> She has another man probably he guy she was cheating on you with. when she is cold to you they are getting along good, when she says she wants to work things out with you her and him are having problems cause he wont leave his wife. She is 4 steps ahead of you. Sucks but thats what I suspect.
> 
> "She's even said she could see us getting back together in a few years, although lately she says those feelings are leaving now to.
> This all hit the fan about a month ago. She was checked out, apathetic toward me and I discovered an affair she had been having for, she says, a couple weeks with a coworker who is also married with a family. An affair I immediately forgave. "
> ...


OP,

Be sure and you don't take all the blame for marriage failure. 

Recognize if you start down that road, she'll hang every facet of trouble and all problems on you.

WW will make it so her affair is your fault, which it isn't. 

Her deciding to have an affair and stay unhappy for "years" without saying something to you is on her.

A cheater will use any justification at hand to ease their mind, once they decide to cheat.

Sorry you're going through this but it's very, very, very unlikely this is all your fault. 

She decided to cheat. She, not you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> You wife does not have a disorder. She is not ill. She is not confused.
> 
> Your wife cheated on your and betrayed your vows, and she is rewriting the story of your marriage ti justify it. She is full of crap, to put it bluntly. And every time you beg her, she just does an inward eyeroll and loathes you more.
> 
> ...


And we have a winner!!

To shorten my comment, the above times a million or so.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

sarnold said:


> All, thank you for the comments. A lot of those were pretty tough to read, but something I need to hear and have heard. I know I need to let go and move on. I know she's done and wants out and has been out. It's really difficult for me to do so because I still love her and love my family. I don't think that makes a me a weak person, or not have any dignity, or make me a doormat. If anything I think that shows strength in me as a person that I'm willing to work on things and forgive and understand it takes a lot of constant effort to make relationships work. I think it shows immense weakness on her part to have an affair and ditch our marriage and family as opposed to sitting down like adults and having a honest conversation. The part where I feel like a sucker is wanting it to work when she clearly doesn't and still hoping she comes to a realization that she might. That is not going to happen anytime in the near future, if ever, despite her telling me she could see us getting back together in a couple years. Which, at this point and time, her saying that is complete BS. If you want out so bad, then be the F out. You don't get to keep me on the back burner and seriously, F you for thinking you can. At the same time though, she has also told me half a dozen times throughout these last six weeks that we would work on it. That she was happy we were working on it and telling all our friends and family she's happy she decided to stay and work on things. So, really, I don't entirely blame myself for wanting and hoping things would work. It would come with the understanding of a lot of counseling and work for both of us individually as well as together and without that, it would most definitely fail and if I'm really being honest with myself and heed the information and comments of others I'd be stupid to go back at all, let alone without that understanding and commitment to work on it all.
> 
> There's so many questions I feel I'll never get an honest answer to. One of the biggest ones is, and probably always will be, is why did we have a child almost 3 years ago if you've been unhappy for so long? Why did we get married almost 6 years ago if you're sticking by this 8 year timeline? Why are you still here in June if you reached your point of no return in January? I've asked these questions several times, but don't ever really get a real answer. It's along the lines of "well we had good times", or "I thought it might fix things and you'd be happy", or the most abundant answer I've ever got from her throughout our relationship, the almighty "I don't know". But, like so many of you have said, cheaters do nothing but lie and try to rewrite history to justify their narrative.
> 
> ...


I am going to find you a thread and you need to read it all. ALL OF IT. You need to pay careful attetion to how it starts, similar to you taking all of the blame, then see what happens.


No one is perfect, but DON'T start taking all of the blame.


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## maree (Jun 13, 2011)

“There's so many questions I feel I'll never get an honest answer to. One of the biggest ones is, and probably always will be, is why did we have a child almost 3 years ago if you've been unhappy for so long? Why did we get married almost 6 years ago if you're sticking by this 8 year timeline?”

Your wife is a liar and trying to justify what she did by saying you don’t make her happy. Your wife has no remorse at all. She will do this again, and given she states she doesn’t even want to work on the relationship means that there is no use in reconciling. Regarding agreements, your wife couldn’t even make good on wedding vows she made publicly why would she be able to make good on other agreements? She is a liar and you cannot trust what she says. 

People are not telling you to blow up the affair to be childish or for revenge. They are telling you to do so to protect yourself, your assets, your relationship with your child, and yourself. Making this easier is only in her favor, if course that’s what she wants. She can continue rug sweeping and blame everything on you - to her family, her friends, or any mutual friends. It is all to protect herself and has nothing to do with you or your child. If she was such a caring person you wouldn’t be in this situation. If she was so unhappy 8 years ago she should have told you - but I can guarantee her happiness didn’t decrease until OM came into her life.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> *What you don't realize is your wife is a very typical cheater. Nothing special about this at all except it's happening to you.* All the other bull**** is just her babble which you are concentrating on when you should be trying to endher affair. Which is still ongoing.
> 
> 
> All you know at this point is what she's telling you and I might add she's lying out her ass. They all do.
> ...


All the stories are the same OP, just read a few more posts. Your wife is done, save yourself the pain and get out while she is in limerance with the best financial and child friendly settlement.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Divorce your wife and get a dog, you will have a better life.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

sarnold said:


> *There's so many questions I feel I'll never get an honest answer to*
> 
> * But, like so many of you have said, cheaters do nothing but lie and try to rewrite history to justify their narrative*. -
> *
> I feel like it would be a lot easier if we didn't have a child because then I could just erase her entirely, but that's not reality. The reality is I will still have to see her and talk to her damn near daily for the sake of our child. I worry that until I've truly moved on, seeing her and interacting with her is going to prolong the healing and seemingly rip off the scab each time sort of thing.* .


You will never get an honest answer so just forget it and as for rewriting history keep the real version of events, save text, emails and document everything as you will hear a lot of lies and you will be blamed for everything.

In regards to dealing with her you don't, you can limit all interaction to 100% about kids and keep it to Text/email, I have not spoken to my X for over 2 years in person, every time she has tried I shut it down with a couple one yes/no and done. The key is to have a very clear parenting plan and make sure you stick to it, all my drop offs and pick ups are at school and if she messages me and it is not 100% child related i just ignore, once you cut her out you will feel much better about life, she will just destroy you if you engage with her,


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

All the questions of why she did this and that in the past will never be answered.

Now she is in an affair. YES NOW! Not was. All her apparent sorrow over the past is for her benefit not yours. Allows her to justify what is not justifiable.

She has now decided on her affair partner and you and her current marriage must be forgotten if she is to move forward with him.

She did it because she wanted to do it. It really is that simple.

When someone shows you who they are by their actions, you should believe them - not ask why? You will never get truth from her other than possibly "you did not deserve this".

DNA the child. The affair could have been much longer and more involved than you suspect.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Where the heck is your anger!

Here she is saying that she has been unhappy for 8 years! 

Why the hell did she marry you then? 

Why have a kid if she was unhappy and wanting to leave?

Then she goes and starts ducking another man on top of if all. 

Why would you want to stay with someone like this?

Get the best lawyer you can find. 

Make sure you get 50/50 custody of you kid and go for being the primary caregiver. 

Protect yourself and your son. 

She is not worth staying with. The sooner you realize that fact the better off you will be.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

By the way, if you want to save your marriage you have to be willing to lose it.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

You need to understand one thing. 

Your wife could have come to you when she really was having problems with the marriage instead of blindsiding you with what she has done. 

Your wife could have thought of your son as well and talked with you about her unhappiness. She didn’t because she doesn’t care. 

You staying and trying to save something that is already gone is insanity. 

You need to understand this isn’t the woman you started dating 11 years ago. She is dead and gone. The person that looks like her is someone you don’t even know. 

Last thing. If your wife doesn’t even want to try, there is not a damn thing you can do to save your family or marriage.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

sarnold said:


> All, thank you for the comments. A lot of those were pretty tough to read, but something I need to hear and have heard. I know I need to let go and move on. I know she's done and wants out and has been out. It's really difficult for me to do so because I still love her and love my family. I don't think that makes a me a weak person, or not have any dignity, or make me a doormat. If anything I think that shows strength in me as a person that I'm willing to work on things and forgive and understand it takes a lot of constant effort to make relationships work. I think it shows immense weakness on her part to have an affair and ditch our marriage and family as opposed to sitting down like adults and having a honest conversation. The part where I feel like a sucker is wanting it to work when she clearly doesn't and still hoping she comes to a realization that she might. That is not going to happen anytime in the near future, if ever, despite her telling me she could see us getting back together in a couple years. Which, at this point and time, her saying that is complete BS. If you want out so bad, then be the F out. You don't get to keep me on the back burner and seriously, F you for thinking you can. At the same time though, she has also told me half a dozen times throughout these last six weeks that we would work on it. That she was happy we were working on it and telling all our friends and family she's happy she decided to stay and work on things. So, really, I don't entirely blame myself for wanting and hoping things would work. It would come with the understanding of a lot of counseling and work for both of us individually as well as together and without that, it would most definitely fail and if I'm really being honest with myself and heed the information and comments of others I'd be stupid to go back at all, let alone without that understanding and commitment to work on it all.
> 
> There's so many questions I feel I'll never get an honest answer to. One of the biggest ones is, and probably always will be, is why did we have a child almost 3 years ago if you've been unhappy for so long? Why did we get married almost 6 years ago if you're sticking by this 8 year timeline? Why are you still here in June if you reached your point of no return in January? I've asked these questions several times, but don't ever really get a real answer. It's along the lines of "well we had good times", or "I thought it might fix things and you'd be happy", or the most abundant answer I've ever got from her throughout our relationship, the almighty "I don't know". But, like so many of you have said, cheaters do nothing but lie and try to rewrite history to justify their narrative.
> 
> ...


One of the things your doing is still believing what she says and not looking at what is actually going on. You were there, how "unhappy" did she claim to be a year ago, 3 years ago or 6 years ago? She didn't because she wasnt. You want to take the blame because your refusing to see her for what she is, not what you want to see. Most of us have done this, your not alone. None of us can claim the hubby of the year award and she certainly can't claim wife of the year either. 

Once you allow yourself some distance and pull yourself out of the emotional roller-coaster your on you will start to see this. My ex claimed the whole "unhappy forever" silliness to and I think it's paragraph 2 of the cheater code right after deny deny deny or trickle truth. Yet a month before the meldown shes proclaiming her undying love for me and telling everyone she's the happiest person in the world. They convince themselves the story they want and the one that gives them the less guilt so they justify their behavior and blame you. 

Own your faults in the marriage, we all had them but don't carry hers. 

Much of what people tell you goes against what your heart wants and while it may seem harsh again once you allow some distance you'll see its not. One of the things you need to stop is talking to her and asking questions. Your not going to get real answers and the more you do the more times she spins things the more she can justify it in her head. Silence from you will bother her much more than you trying to engage her. She knows your not going anywhere and has no incentive to change. Your enabling the behavior yet telling yourself your trying to fix the situation.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

maree said:


> People are not telling you to blow up the affair to be childish or for revenge. They are telling you to do so to protect yourself, your assets, your relationship with your child, and yourself. Making this easier is only in her favor, if course that’s what she wants. She can continue rug sweeping and blame everything on you - to her family, her friends, or any mutual friends. It is all to protect herself and has nothing to do with you or your child. If she was such a caring person you wouldn’t be in this situation. If she was so unhappy 8 years ago she should have told you - but I can guarantee her happiness didn’t decrease until OM came into her life.


We are also telling you to expose the affair because the ONLY way you can stay married is if she stops cheating and the only way she stops cheating is if you expose it to her family and friends and his family so they have no choice but to end it. We are telling you to do this because it works.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sarnold said:


> I don't think that makes a me a weak person, or not have any dignity, or make me a doormat. If anything I think that shows strength in me as a person that I'm willing to work on things and forgive and understand it takes a lot of constant effort to make relationships work.
> 
> Nope, you are getting walked on because you are weak, passive and doormatish. You are telling yourself you aren't so you don't have to stand up and call her BS out.
> 
> ...


All you're gonna do is lay in the victim chair. the only one keeping you where you are is you.

Expect this to play out again and again. The Weak passive act is unnattractive. You'll get walked on the rest of your life if you allow it.

Fix yourself or have a really bleak future.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

turnera said:


> We are also telling you to expose the affair because the ONLY way you can stay married is if she stops cheating and the only way she stops cheating is if you expose it to her family and friends and his family so they have no choice but to end it. We are telling you to do this because it works.


I agree with this. I don't think it is 100% obvious that this is an exit affair. Given what you've told us, I think she could commit to trying.

But there is absolutely no guarantee (and likely, if this follows the typical script, not as probable as divorce), but you will have zero chance of keeping the marriage if you don't take a different approach. 

You need to get tough and strong. You need to expose. You need to stop the forgiving. You need to stand up for your own honor. She is a liar. You don't need to treat that with respect. Read the 180 and implement it as much as possible.

If you were my son, I would urge you to stiffen your spine. Don't allow her blameshifting. Don't accept the rewriting of your marital history. Just don't.


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## sarnold (Jun 9, 2019)

Well I had to leave town for work and we actually left on a good note. Didn't talk about anything of substance, just had a nice easy night. A hug goodbye in the morning and off I went. The only angle I have left to play if there is any hope of this marriage being saved, and realistically that's probably less than 5% chance, is to employ the 180 method as much as possible and just show her that I'm fine and I'm moving on and if she wants the divorce it's on her and I'll be more than fine. I'll thrive and prosper. I just landed a new job today, I'll have a new place, a new life and if she wants it, no wife. Even if by some miracle she comes to her damn senses and realizes what she's throwing away, I can't honestly say I'm going to jump right back in. There would need to be some serious work done and some serious changes made if it was going to be a real attempt at getting us back to a good place. I'd be okay if progress was slow, but it would need to be consistent and measurable. But let's be real, she's out, she's done. She wants this divorce as soon as possible. She may have a realization down the road that she made a huge mistake after seeing the grass isn't greener, but she has too much pride to admit that or show it. She's even already gone into her next relationship with the expectation it's going to fail. I asked her if she was going to take her maiden name back, she wasn't sure, so I asked her what about when you get remarried someday? She said she didn't think she would ever get remarried, so I said you're just going to be in a long term relationship and never get married? Why, because it would be easier to get out? She wholeheartedly agreed with that. Who the hell does that? That's not healthy. I really hope she gets the counseling she needs and it's effective.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sarnold said:


> Well I had to leave town for work and we actually left on a good note. Didn't talk about anything of substance, just had a nice easy night. A hug goodbye in the morning and off I went. The only angle I have left to play if there is any hope of this marriage being saved, and realistically that's probably less than 5% chance, is to employ the 180 method as much as possible and just show her that I'm fine and I'm moving on and if she wants the divorce it's on her and I'll be more than fine.
> 
> Nope, your best action is exposure but you're to afraid to take the needed action. All you've done and continue to do is enalble her behavior further.
> 
> I'll thrive and prosper. I just landed a new job today, I'll have a new place, a new life and if she wants it, no wife. Even if by some miracle she comes to her damn senses and realizes what she's throwing away, I can't honestly say I'm going to jump right back in. There would need to be some serious work done and some serious changes made if it was going to be a real attempt at getting us back to a good place. I'd be okay if progress was slow, but it would need to be consistent and measurable. But let's be real, she's out, she's done. She wants this divorce as soon as possible. She may have a realization down the road that she made a huge mistake after seeing the grass isn't greener, but she has too much pride to admit that or show it. She's even already gone into her next relationship with the expectation it's going to fail. I asked her if she was going to take her maiden name back, she wasn't sure, so I asked her what about when you get remarried someday? She said she didn't think she would ever get remarried, so I said you're just going to be in a long term relationship and never get married? Why, because it would be easier to get out? She wholeheartedly agreed with that. Who the hell does that? That's not healthy. I really hope she gets the counseling she needs and it's effective.


All you've done is talk. You can't stop yourself. From what you've posted you'll not be able to 180 either. The time to have started that was upfront. 

Your posts/talk are just meaningless words that accomplish nothing.

At this point divorce is you're only path but she'll take that action while you continue to talk.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

sarnold

Okay. You are an intelligent, logical guy. You believe in your ability to solve problems, that's probably what you do for a living. As such, you can't believe that people would act illogically. It doesn't make sense. Hmm....

You hope that she comes to her senses? Human beings are driven by emotions. Emotions can have no basis in fact. People act based on these things. You are not forcing her to face facts, just taking the logical man's desire to avoid confrontation. It ain't going to happen that way.

Your wife seems to be a bit BI-Polar. Up and down like the waves on the ocean. Hence the change in attitude constantly.

Since you seem attached to her (God knows why) and want to save this marriage, here are the things you need to do:

1. The saying here is* "You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it."* For that to work, you have to convince yourself and her that this is true. *You have to set that tone and knock her out of the driver's seat.*

2. *Lawyer up and file.* Don't warn her, it should come as a bolt from the blue. This can be slowed or even halted as you decide. But from this point on, *YOU* are leaving her! If this shocks her, all the better. She is not used to you calling the shots. That needs to change. Set a tone.

3.* Get STD tested.* She is in an AFFAIR. She is a liar. If she has been allowing some other man to put his bodily fluids in her, well, you don't know where that **** has been. Sets a tone whether you believe her or not.

4. *DNA test your kid, *I don't care if he's the spitting image of you. Sets a tone. You're not playing games here. She says she hasn't been happy for years. Take her at her word.

5. *Absolutely no sex with her till reconciliation if that ever takes place. *A judge would consider that forgiveness on your part. Not the tone that you need to set.

6. *Expose, to everybody that you and she knows.* Exposure is the fastest way to kill an affair. Excellent way to set a new tone.

7.* Keep a VAR on you at all times* as she seems the type to accuse you of abuse when she want's to get down and dirty.

8. *Good luck with the new job.* You need to make a whole new you. Set a new tone in your life. Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and set a new tone in your relationships with others. You need to bring out your inner caveman.

9. *Stop doing any type of "Pick-Me-Dance".* It will totally disgust her. women are attracted to Strength, Courage, & Decisive Action. *Make that the new tone in your relationships.*

10. I'm an old coach. Another old coach once told me, "When you are getting run out of town, make it look like you are leading a parade in your honor!" *Time to get the parade started!*


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

What's coming at you now is your wayward wife and lover will strip you bare in the divorce to give themselves as much financial gain as they can get to set themselves up as much as possible.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

What do you love about this woman? She sounds cold and selfish to the core. It sounds like she has some chemical imbalance, or just a personality disorder. I'd feel bad for her, like maybe she just needs some meds, but if this has always been her pattern then she could have done something to work on herself and get better. I feel very sorry for your child.

Good luck to you I haven't read far enough into this thread to know yet but I think as reality sets in you will start to realize you are lucky to be free of her. Watch your child for signs of mental health issues, especially during and after puberty.

As for you -- it sounds like your wife is 99% the problem here, but for your happy future: Next time, don't be negative all the time (negativity just SUCKS the life out of the room). And really listen and think about it and make sure you understand when your woman tells you she's unhappy about things. Some men can be very dismissive of their woman's complaints and some women will just take it quietly and calmly until one day they just up and walk away. 




sarnold said:


> Thank you all for the comments.
> 
> In regard to the other man, and who knows if there's truth to this, but she always claimed it was never about wanting to be with him or pursue any relationship with him. *They work in the same building and she's always seen him as someone who looks like he'd be good in bed. * Things did get physical between them, but not to the point of sex or anything oral. Again, who knows how much truth there is to any of this coming from her. There's also a weird psychological component she described that I think would be hard to make up. She had this friend in high school who, long story short, committed suicide after what sounds like PTSD from the military. * She said she always regretted not sleeping with this friend. The guy she had the affair with is also in the military and is getting deployed in a week for up to a year. That was her end game. So she said, she would sleep with him because he looked like he'd be good in bed and prove to herself that she could seduce someone* (crazy weird AF thought process if you ask me, especially for a married mom) , he would get deployed, I would never find out and she would live with this dirty little secret. She equated this man she works with to her friend from high school. After I found out about the affair and she claimed there was never any feelings or desire to be with him, she broke it off the next day and claims it was very easy to keep things professional and hasn't been an issue since, especially on his side. She actually said it was almost weird how easy it was for him because it wasn't as easy for her, which to me says there were some feelings. She also said she couldn't sleep with him now because I ruined it.  That made me smile inside to know I did that.
> 
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Best wishes for your new job.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Let's equate your STBXF to a machine.

A machine having rotating parts which spin rapidly.

For the machine to endure it 'needs' these things:

1) lubrication. Verbal and proper health maintenance must be scheduled, and as needed.
2) fuel. Financial, caloric from the financials.
3) energy input. Else it stops rotating. Financials, and fuel supply energy. Verbal prodding assists.
4) waste product ridding. Venting noxious feelings.
5) heat management. Heat must be kept within safe parameters. Venting hot thoughts and feelings
6) balance. Balance is an important thing. Without balance the machine will shake itself apart.

Your wife is severely unbalanced. All the other needs cannot keep her stable and running. She is shaking herself apart.





[THM]- SunCMars


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

Wow,this man will give her everything she asks in the divorce becouse he will think that that will somehow turn her around,and then he will be left with nothing,while his wife and her lover enjoy his house and his money. Just sad...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

My closing comment; do as has been mentioned. 

Get out while the getting is good, so to speak, while she is exhibiting signs of trying to get out without sticking it to you on all fronts.

As time goes on, like spoiled meat, the whole thing will get worse and worse. 

At some point someone will whisper in her ear to start being vindictive and harsh at every turn and the semi friendly circumstance, if you can call it that, will disappear. 

Cross all your legal ts dot Is. 

Now, now, now.

Do not doubt this one iota.

Someone is telling her now to get all she can, and while she be mellow (?) for now, not taking it in, that will change in the blink of an eye.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

turnera said:


> Bull****. You know it is. Nothing major was wrong with your marriage until she had another guy to fall back on. She tried on another guy and she's addicted to the allure of the affair. Cheating creates the same feel-good phermones as a drug addiction; it makes you like, sneak, and hurt people just to keep getting the feel good. I guarantee he strung her along and told her to leave her husband so he could leave his wife.
> 
> And she has to end all contact with the OM so that she stops getting the PEA chemicals in her body that make her feel addicted to him.


I agree with this line of thinking, 100%.

We are bio-chemical creations. 

We do have free-will. 
It is very limited.

To will, or not, depends FIRST on our bodily needs and urges.
Chemical urges are supreme.

Chemical production and response is a delicate thing. 

A *balance* that medical science is always trying to decipher, and manage. 

Control is the dream. 
Side effects are profuse.

Genetics within human are rather decisive in expressed traits.

Genotypes determine phenotypes. 

One's environment and outer 'chance' happenings affect both expressions.

Genetic damage can be hereditary, causing one to act and express 'out of the ordinary'. 

The outer influences can include simple things like drug exposure in the womb, second hand smoke, radioactive exposure (cosmic rays) deteriorating genes, and epigenes, limited gene pools and inter breeding, etc. It can include things in ones liquid and solid diets, allergens, virus and bacterial exposure, accidents to one's body, on and on.

Autism is the result of multiple factors, most uncertain, presently.

It also can include the mental programming one gets from those closest to you when growing up and in midlife.

Logic takes a back seat to the protruding horn on the front of life's saddle we all ride on.

Logic is presently not a dominant need factor in our reproductive imperatives.
It certainly is when mankinds overall survival is considered. But not when picking a mate.
At least not enough.....it seems.

The other factor and other outer influence is one that is not popularly supported on TAM.
Nor, in the civilized world.

That is the influence of the 'rest of the Universe' on us.

We are contain (55 to 75) percent of water. 

Minerals, especially metals are sensitive to all sorts of 'waves'. Water being fluid allows movement within it. Which means that outside forces can affect it.

Our bodily 'ecosystem' is very unstable.

Our brain is made up of 72% water.

What I am saying {and wasting my time} is that we are not separate from the Universe.




[THM]- SCM


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sarnold said:


> The only angle I have left to play if there is any hope of this marriage being saved, and realistically that's probably less than 5% chance, is to employ the 180 method as much as possible and just show her that I'm fine and I'm moving on and if she wants the divorce it's on her and I'll be more than fine.


Or...you could use the advice you came here for and expose the affair.

What are you afraid of?


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## sarnold (Jun 9, 2019)

Maybe I haven't said it during any of these posts, but everyone says expose the affair. There isn't a single person in our circle of family and friends that doesn't know about it. My brother and father know it (mom no longer with us) and have repeatedly said basically to run, that this woman has become unhinged, or always was, who knows. Her family knows. Her mother and sister were and probably still are very disappointed in her. Just yesterday her mom told me she thinks her daughter will eventually regret her decision to divorce me. I honestly don't think her dad cares, he tends to be all business and very little emotion and I'm honestly not positive she told him she had an affair, just that she's divorcing me. Everyone is very sad this is happening and doesn't understand it.

It pisses me off that the other guy gets off scott free in all of this and still wonder about finding out who his wife is, probably through a background check, and contacting her since this POS doesn't have social media. I've looked for him. I do know his name age and phone number though. Probably enough to really find out if I wanted to pay a little money to do so. In reality though, what would that accomplish? Anything positive other than a small amount of satisfaction from the vengeance? Doubtful. Most likely all it would do is make the relationship between my soon to be ex wife and I irreparably toxic and all that will do is harm my son. I really don't care if any of you think I should for my own satisfaction or to harm my wife or anything like that. Anything that has the potential to play out negatively for my son in addition to all the pain and challenges he will statistically already face isn't worth it in any way, so if that's all you want to say then f*ck you, go be bitter and hateful elsewhere. My only concern is my son and his wellbeing. He's all that matters now. If she does have a realization someday and wants to get back together or anything of the sort, whatever, we can sit down and have a conversation like adults. It's not going to happen though. At least not without some serious counseling and changing on her part. She hasn't even began traveling down that road yet, I have. I'm not saying I don't have a lot of work to do as well, but I have begun and am implementing changes already and it does feel good to make positive changes. All of that is not to say I'm better than her either. I'm not going to go down the tit for tat road and point out her failures and my successes. Theres no point to that. Theres no point to giving any of it any more thought. I can't control anything to do with her, so why bother? All I can do is worry about stuff I can control, which is me and continuing down the road to becoming the best version of myself, so I can be the best father to my son. I will still be there to support her and help her if she wants, but strictly from the standpoint of my son and that she is his mother. If she isn't solid as a person, then how can she be solid as a mother to him? She still wants to play nice, so like some of you have said, time to get out while the getting is still good.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

The OM wife deserves to know her husband is a cheating POS. That’s why if you can find her, you need to let her know. Wouldn’t you want the same thing done for you?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think you're confusing them knowing about it with YOU TELLING THEM about it. When YOU expose, you go to them and say "she's cheating on me. I'm willing to look at any issues she may have with me, but we can't work anything out while she is under the addiction of an affair, and I'm asking you to talk to her, and let her know this affair partner won't be a welcome addition, if that's how you feel, so we have a chance to work this out."

That said, if you're ready to divorce, just move on.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP, hugging her, talking to her, indicating your willingness to get back together with her, etc, are all doing one thing; giving her subconscious approval of her actions. What do you think that does to the small modicum of respect she may still possess for you?

The single largest benefit of the 180 is for you to begin healing yourself. The second largest benefit is to communicate, via actions, your overwhelming disapproval of the situation. 

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Reality? She very likely sees you as a weak man (I know I would) and women don't respect weak men. They think weak men can be easily manipulated and they aren't usually wrong. Don't want that? Then give her what she says she wants so you can move on.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Ah the misplaced resentment and anger rears its ugly head.

You can call everyone bitter, but most of the advice is right and stuff you don't want to hear. 
Being there for her has nothing to do with your son.
Supporting her when she didn't support you or her son is not making you strong.

It is called tacit approval. 

You are approving her behavior, by taking your anger out on "bitter" posters while, cuddling, hugging and supporting a cheater who hurt her son. 

You know, the one you are trying to protect at all costs.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Your heading for divorce. You accept that. Then go ahead and file. The reason people are telling you to expose properly is we thought you were still fighting for your marriage. There is no doubt the affair is ongoing no matter what she is telling you. If you tell his wife the typical response is for him to throw your wife under the bus. . This dispels the cheater fog rather quickly as a rule. 

The biggest reason is to let her know her husband isn’t faithful. People die from several different sexually transmitted diseases. One of our members has terminal throat cancer from an std.
You telling her is a life and death call. Your wife is not likely to be his only partner. All of you are at risk. If that doesn’t tick us all off nothing will.

Get a lawyer and protect your self and your son. Not all states are no fault. A lawyer an get his and your wife’s emails etc. He can protect you from what is likely to turn vicious. Experience is the best teacher whether or not you want to believe it.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

It sounds like your still a sucker for her WORDS and discount her ACTIONS.

She is DONE! The sooner you come to understand it the better.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

The other spouse needs to know.! you just being a weak puss that’s on you. So forget about your selfish wife and you not taking any advice and implementing the 180. The other spouse needs to know what a POS she’s dealing with so that she can make her own life decisions.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

sarnold said:


> Maybe I haven't said it during any of these posts, but everyone says expose the affair. There isn't a single person in our circle of family and friends that doesn't know about it. My brother and father know it (mom no longer with us) and have repeatedly said basically to run, that this woman has become unhinged, or always was, who knows. Her family knows. Her mother and sister were and probably still are very disappointed in her. Just yesterday her mom told me she thinks her daughter will eventually regret her decision to divorce me. I honestly don't think her dad cares, he tends to be all business and very little emotion and I'm honestly not positive she told him she had an affair, just that she's divorcing me. Everyone is very sad this is happening and doesn't understand it.
> 
> It pisses me off that the other guy gets off scott free in all of this and still wonder about finding out who his wife is, probably through a background check, and contacting her since this POS doesn't have social media. I've looked for him. I do know his name age and phone number though. Probably enough to really find out if I wanted to pay a little money to do so. In reality though, what would that accomplish? Anything positive other than a small amount of satisfaction from the vengeance? Doubtful. Most likely all it would do is make the relationship between my soon to be ex wife and I irreparably toxic and all that will do is harm my son. I really don't care if any of you think I should for my own satisfaction or to harm my wife or anything like that. Anything that has the potential to play out negatively for my son in addition to all the pain and challenges he will statistically already face isn't worth it in any way, so if that's all you want to say then f*ck you, go be bitter and hateful elsewhere. My only concern is my son and his wellbeing. He's all that matters now. If she does have a realization someday and wants to get back together or anything of the sort, whatever, we can sit down and have a conversation like adults. It's not going to happen though. At least not without some serious counseling and changing on her part. She hasn't even began traveling down that road yet, I have. I'm not saying I don't have a lot of work to do as well, but I have begun and am implementing changes already and it does feel good to make positive changes. All of that is not to say I'm better than her either. I'm not going to go down the tit for tat road and point out her failures and my successes. Theres no point to that. Theres no point to giving any of it any more thought. I can't control anything to do with her, so why bother? All I can do is worry about stuff I can control, which is me and continuing down the road to becoming the best version of myself, so I can be the best father to my son. I will still be there to support her and help her if she wants, but strictly from the standpoint of my son and that she is his mother. If she isn't solid as a person, then how can she be solid as a mother to him? She still wants to play nice, so like some of you have said, time to get out while the getting is still good.



Do you believe allowing a woman to cheat on you and instantly forgiving her is a good example to set that has no potential to negatively impact your son?


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

@sarnold - if you want to find the other man's wife's contact information, pay for a service like beenverified.com or truthfinder.com.

Plug in his information and you'll have all of her contact information in about 3 minutes. 

It will cost you something like $20 a month, maybe less if you Google up a promo code.

***

You say you are concerned with your son's well-being. That is good. 

Evidently, your wife does not share your feelings about protecting your child.

Of course you should expose the affair to the other betrayed spouse. You know that.

And if you don't tell the people you know why you are really breaking up, I guarantee you she will supply her own story. 

And you know how she is with the truth!

Either you keep eating her **** or you make her deal with her own ****.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

sarnold said:


> All, thank you for the comments. A lot of those were pretty tough to read, but something I need to hear and have heard. I know I need to let go and move on. I know she's done and wants out and has been out. It's really difficult for me to do so because I still love her and love my family. I don't think that makes a me a weak person, or not have any dignity, or make me a doormat. If anything I think that shows strength in me as a person that I'm willing to work on things and forgive and understand it takes a lot of constant effort to make relationships work. I think it shows immense weakness on her part to have an affair and ditch our marriage and family as opposed to sitting down like adults and having a honest conversation. The part where I feel like a sucker is wanting it to work when she clearly doesn't and still hoping she comes to a realization that she might. That is not going to happen anytime in the near future, if ever, despite her telling me she could see us getting back together in a couple years. Which, at this point and time, her saying that is complete BS. If you want out so bad, then be the F out. You don't get to keep me on the back burner and seriously, F you for thinking you can. At the same time though, she has also told me half a dozen times throughout these last six weeks that we would work on it. That she was happy we were working on it and telling all our friends and family she's happy she decided to stay and work on things. So, really, I don't entirely blame myself for wanting and hoping things would work. It would come with the understanding of a lot of counseling and work for both of us individually as well as together and without that, it would most definitely fail and if I'm really being honest with myself and heed the information and comments of others I'd be stupid to go back at all, let alone without that understanding and commitment to work on it all.
> 
> There's so many questions I feel I'll never get an honest answer to. One of the biggest ones is, and probably always will be, is why did we have a child almost 3 years ago if you've been unhappy for so long? Why did we get married almost 6 years ago if you're sticking by this 8 year timeline? Why are you still here in June if you reached your point of no return in January? I've asked these questions several times, but don't ever really get a real answer. It's along the lines of "well we had good times", or "I thought it might fix things and you'd be happy", or the most abundant answer I've ever got from her throughout our relationship, the almighty "I don't know". But, like so many of you have said, cheaters do nothing but lie and try to rewrite history to justify their narrative.
> 
> ...


Man... just read the posts on this site. You are not the first or the last to go through this. 

You can martyr yourself or deal with it. Good luck.


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## Unknown123 (Jan 8, 2019)

Your situation sounds nearly like mine , but without the child. My wife has been cheating on me with a co worker for over a year, and when I felt something was wrong, it felt like a tonne of bricks fell on me. I kept asking myself why and wanted answers, but I was never going to get them. She was blaming me for, ( I didn't have contant work and couldn't contribute like I should) and she used that and a few other things to fuel her drive towards resenting me. I was like you, I was good to her, but she just seen me like a peasant, and was looking for greener pastures. Sex stopped along with many other regular things. And that put me off. She was setting me up for failure the way she went about things. But I caught her out. Still till today 6 months after seperation I still hear her blaming me for it( these people don't know she cheated) so she can save her reputation. Once they have clocked out it's impossible for them to come back. Plus do you want all the baggage that comes with a lying wife who has had sex with another man? You will never be able to cope with it day to day


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## Unknown123 (Jan 8, 2019)

By the way your wife sounds abit unstable. Like my wife who got diagonised with bpd.


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## sarnold (Jun 9, 2019)

Not that the anger over all of this hasn't been there, but it's really been rearing it's ugly head lately. I've been holding on to hope that she would change her mindset and see that we could get through this like so many couples do. What a stupid bit of hope to hold on to. She claims that so much of our issue has been communication focused and that's essentially what led to all the other problems. More BS. She has some serious deep seeded issues. She's very immature about all of this and as it turns out about life in general. Relationships are a two way road that take a lot of daily work to maintain and foster, but to her that's not the case. Relationships to her, are all about her. It's quite literally her way or the highway. You better do everything she wants and expect nothing in return because when I look back on it, she hasn't been proactive about anything. She's a completely reactive person. Even when discussing the custody plan or parenting plan she can't give me a straight answer on anything. When asked if she has a thought about it, or is leaning one way or the other, she can't give me anything other than "I don't know", or "we'll see what the mediator says". She literally needs someone to tell her everything. She can't do anything for herself. I should have seen the red flags years ago, and to this day, when she was and still is unable to make a decision about what to order at a restaurant without asking someone else. It's a meal of f***ing food, what does it matter? Even if it sucks, who cares, order something different next time.

She seems to think we're going to be such good co parents and eventually we'll be really great friends and hang out and do joint birthdays and holidays and all that. There's just one little piece of information she's failing to add to that statement. That all only works as long as I foster it. She'll do nothing to cultivate that relationship. That, like our entire marriage, relies solely on me. What a bunch of f***ing BS. The stupid part is that's what will be best for my son and his development, which I have to safeguard since she's doing a lot to screw that one up already. She seems to think our communication will be so great down the road once all of this blows over. What the hell gives her that idea? She thinks our communication will get there, yet we apparently couldn't communicate worth a damn for the last 11 years when we were supposed to love each other and supposed to work on it. She is so delusional about all of this. Not about what she wants, but about how all of this is going to turn out. That's part of what has me really worried about all of this and especially for my son.

The only people that don't know about this are the people she works with. All of our friends and family know what happened and know we're getting divorced and so many of them to this day tell her she's making a really big mistake. It still really pisses me off that he gets off completely free. I'm still struggling about contacting his wife and here's why. What will I gain out of it? Some vengeful satisfaction, hoping his life explodes like mine has? Some satisfaction maybe at the hope my wife gets horribly embarrassed and disciplined and people just talk a lot of sh*t about her to her face and behind her back and all over the building? But then, what do I have to lose by doing that? What if his wife already knows and doesn't care? Vengeful satisfaction gone. What if my wife is embarrassed and something happens and she ends up getting fired because of it? You really think she won't then come after me for alimony and/or child support(she still says she won't), which obviously screws me even harder? It will most definitely cause irreparable harm to our relationship, which then causes additional harm to our son. Sure seems the satisfaction part isn't a given at all, but the other side of it is almost a guarantee in terms of the relationship and harm to my son, which is the most important part of it.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

sarnold said:


> I'm still struggling about contacting his wife and here's why. What will I gain out of it? ....


What if you never found out about your wife's affair? 
If the other spouse knew before you, would you have wanted your wife's boyfriends spouse to have told you that you were living a lie? 
It is not easy but it sort of makes you a supporter of the affair by keeping the truth away from someone who is in your situation.

I know that you want to protect your son, that is your #1 job.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

sarnold said:


> Not that the anger over all of this hasn't been there, but it's really been rearing it's ugly head lately. I've been holding on to hope that she would change her mindset and see that we could get through this like so many couples do. What a stupid bit of hope to hold on to. She claims that so much of our issue has been communication focused and that's essentially what led to all the other problems. More BS. She has some serious deep seeded issues. She's very immature about all of this and as it turns out about life in general. Relationships are a two way road that take a lot of daily work to maintain and foster, but to her that's not the case. Relationships to her, are all about her. It's quite literally her way or the highway. You better do everything she wants and expect nothing in return because when I look back on it, she hasn't been proactive about anything. She's a completely reactive person. Even when discussing the custody plan or parenting plan she can't give me a straight answer on anything. When asked if she has a thought about it, or is leaning one way or the other, she can't give me anything other than "I don't know", or "we'll see what the mediator says". She literally needs someone to tell her everything. She can't do anything for herself. I should have seen the red flags years ago, and to this day, when she was and still is unable to make a decision about what to order at a restaurant without asking someone else. It's a meal of f***ing food, what does it matter? Even if it sucks, who cares, order something different next time.
> 
> She seems to think we're going to be such good co parents and eventually we'll be really great friends and hang out and do joint birthdays and holidays and all that. There's just one little piece of information she's failing to add to that statement. That all only works as long as I foster it. She'll do nothing to cultivate that relationship. That, like our entire marriage, relies solely on me. What a bunch of f***ing BS. The stupid part is that's what will be best for my son and his development, which I have to safeguard since she's doing a lot to screw that one up already. She seems to think our communication will be so great down the road once all of this blows over. What the hell gives her that idea? She thinks our communication will get there, yet we apparently couldn't communicate worth a damn for the last 11 years when we were supposed to love each other and supposed to work on it. She is so delusional about all of this. Not about what she wants, but about how all of this is going to turn out. That's part of what has me really worried about all of this and especially for my son.
> 
> The only people that don't know about this are the people she works with. All of our friends and family know what happened and know we're getting divorced and so many of them to this day tell her she's making a really big mistake. It still really pisses me off that he gets off completely free. I'm still struggling about contacting his wife and here's why. What will I gain out of it? Some vengeful satisfaction, hoping his life explodes like mine has? Some satisfaction maybe at the hope my wife gets horribly embarrassed and disciplined and people just talk a lot of sh*t about her to her face and behind her back and all over the building? But then, what do I have to lose by doing that? What if his wife already knows and doesn't care? Vengeful satisfaction gone. What if my wife is embarrassed and something happens and she ends up getting fired because of it? You really think she won't then come after me for alimony and/or child support(she still says she won't), which obviously screws me even harder? It will most definitely cause irreparable harm to our relationship, which then causes additional harm to our son. Sure seems the satisfaction part isn't a given at all, but the other side of it is almost a guarantee in terms of the relationship and harm to my son, which is the most important part of it.


Wow, there is so much in this post. I hardly know where to start. 

First off, if you are getting a divorce, you really need to stop giving a **** what she thinks. 

Second, the Other Betrayed Spouse has a right to know, in my opinion, it is immoral not to tell the OBS. 

Third, I honestly hope that from this **** show, you actually grow, learn to have some self respect, and at some point figure out what a healthy relationship looks like. Because brother, right now, you have no clue. And at your age, you really should. 

But most of all, the OBS needs to know, because otherwise, you are like all the other people that were complicit in your wife's affair. 

And honestly, you have more morals and compassion for your fellow men and women than they do...Don't you????


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Your wife doesn't have to do a thing. You've shown her no matter what she does you're going to be there for her and do exactly what she tells you or wants you to do. Why would she change anything.

Cake eaters love to eat can and you're feeding her with both hands. You've made it very clear she'll have zero consequences. 

You keep going on about how you must do for the kids. They aren't stupid and if they don't know what's going on yet they will figure it out. What do you think they'll think about you being such a doormat? They learn from you. What do you really think you're teaching them?

IMO you're just using any excuse you can find to do nothing. Respect, self respect is a big thing. You should get some.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

sarnold

you need to inform the other mans wife. here are a few reasons
1. she deserves to know. wouldn't YOU want to know if it was the other way around?
2. expect the other mans life to collapse and the affair to stop. seems unlikely I know, but read up here and see how often that happens.
3. I will guarantee your wife is talking all sorts of $hit behind your back to anyone who will listen and buy into how she is divorcing because you are such a bad husband, and some will believe it. But when the truth comes out and the audience see's she is cheating.....most will stop buying her BS.

the only problem with all this is expect her to go BALSITC on you. that's just the norm to. when she gets upset about it, shrug it off, laugh in her face, and tell her she made her own bed and now gets to wallow in it.

playing nice with her mentality (the fog we call it....something else to read up on here) is a recipe for disaster for you in the long run.


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## scaredlion (Mar 4, 2017)

I read something the other day that may fit your situation.

"When someone leaves, it's because someone else is about arrive."

In any event, you're going to be fine. I do wish you well.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Chaparral said:


> If you tell his wife the typical response is for him to throw your wife under the bus. . This dispels the cheater fog rather quickly as a rule.
> 
> The biggest reason is to let her know her husband isn’t faithful. People die from several different sexually transmitted diseases. One of our members has terminal throat cancer from an std.


I'd want her to remain in a fog until I could get rid of her. Women and men in a "fog" are motivated and easier to negotiate with. If the fog is thick enough, they'll stupidly give away the farm. The biggest reason for me to out her old man is to try to work something out with her myself. (if she was my type and at my age, I ain't that hard to please)


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

sarnold

1. The law of recovering your marriage is *"If you want to save your marriage you have to be willing to lose it."* Its corollary is, *"And she has to believe it." * 

2.* File and have her served at work.* A little shot of reality can go a long way. You can stop it when she gets her head out of her ass. If not, then you're already moving on to healing.

3. *180 technique Religiously. She needs a little dry run of what divorce is really going to be like.* https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/affairrecoveryforum/the-180-t10616.html

4. *STD check.* Don't hide that you are doing this.

5. *Stop doing the pick-me dance.* Man, that makes you look weak and pathetic. Get your balls out of hock.

6. *I read your manifesto on marriage.* Sounds like Socialism - Sounds good but doesn't't work in reality. People are not motivated by sympathy for others but by selfishness. Sympathy can be more powerful, but don't count on it. In the end, they always turn to violence to force everybody into it. 

7. You forgave her right away. You can't save a marriage with one person trying to do it. Both have to do it. *She didn't deserve forgiveness, she deserved divorce papers.*

8. *Your child won't learn much except to watch you go through the agony of dealing with a remorseless wench.* He will watch you eating yourself alive. Don't believe he won't.

9. *Expose to the other man's wife.* She deserves to know, not for revenge but because you care for human decency. It is also the proven fastest way to end an affair. It is not your right to hide their affair from her, which is what you are doing. God Lord man, do the right thing. You are over thinking this.

10. *Women are drawn to courage, strength, and decisive action.** Show that man to your child and your wife*.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I think you are not listening to the good people of TAM, your false compassionate approach is just weakness. True love and consideration also involves boundaries and discipline. 
Your wife needs to have consequences for her actions, not revenge but you need to set the boundaries so that she can ultimately be a good mother when you are divorced. Right now you are like a boat being tossed around on a stormy sea. Take the helm and take control of your life. She is not the one who should be dictating what happens.
In addition if you are a decent man, which you are leading us to believe, please out the OM to his wife ASAP. She has a right to know.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

No,he wont do it. Stop telling him reasons,he just wont do it. He is to afraid. So give the man a break,we are not all born with dignity and self respect. There are all diferent kind of people in this world. Ant to you my good man,you will get through this,one way or another. Wish you all the luck in the world!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He has said he's divorcing. If that's true, he doesn't need to expose as those people will no longer be in his life. I mean, they SHOULD know what she did, but exposure is no longer warranted to wake his wife up.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

What you are getting from her is revisionist history and cheater speak, it just isn't true. If he is married, she is going to get a rude awakening, when she finds he doesn't ditch his family and come running to her. She will figure out she was just his play thing and even if they end of together, what did she gain? She just got a cheater, if he will cheat with you, he will cheat on you. As for her, you need to change the dynamics of the relationship. You need to invest heavily in the 180, limit conversation to necessary conversation such as finance, legal, children, etc. If you haven't already had consultations with the good attorneys in town, do so to thin the herd she can pick from for herself. Look for the best settlement you can get, you can always buy another house, car, furniture. Start spending time with just you and your son to ease the transition that is inevitable. Also there is no problem splitting holidays and parties, they love having extra parties that are all about them. This is all about her and her fulfilling her selfish desires. She is no longer your wife, friend, buddy or pal. Don't be mean or condescending, she is the mother of your child and should be treated with a certain amount of respect for his sake not hers. For her birthday and mothers day, buy her small gifts from him and help him make her a card. This is you helping him to respect his mother and woman in general. 

I also recommend doing things for you. Exercise is good as it helps with the stress, makes a healthier you and will be useful when you are ready to get back in the saddle again. It is also a good time to resume a hobby you may have ignored or start one you have always wanted to try. It is also a good time to evaluate the relationship, so that you can learn from the experience moving forward. You need to get too busy with your life to worry about her crap. It is a Brave New World out there my friend.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

People have a way of figuring things out. Running around, telling everyone what she did, I've heard this advice on here, and it just makes you as the BS, look desperate and petty. (Just how I tend to view it, but everyone has to come to their own choices) Work on your own life, your own healing. Be the best person you can be, for you. It hurts now and will for a long time, so just embrace that for now. But you won't always be in pain. 

Something also, there's really no such thing as ''soul mates.'' As though the universe has one special person planned for us, forever. I say this to you, because it will only keep you locked in misery, if you keep wondering how your ''soul mate'' could have done this to you. 

It sucks that you find yourself in this position, but learn and grow from it all. There's always a silver lining, within the clouds.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> Something also, there's really no such thing as ''soul mates.'' As though the universe has one special person planned for us, forever. I say this to you, because it will only keep you locked in misery, if you keep wondering how your ''soul mate'' could have done this to you.


For what it's worth I read somewhere that psychologists (?) did some kind of study and they determined that for all of us there are approximately 6000 people throughout the world who, if we ever met, we would have an automatic unexpected mutual attraction on a physical, mental and spiritual level. They don't say how long the attraction lasts, could be a lifetime could be a short time...I think I may have met one of my 6000 in jr high. It didn't last forever. the weird thing is about every 14 years our paths intersect and the attraction starts up again until it goes a way. 
It has 11 years since I have seen her...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

With regards to telling the wife....well the same reason I don't stop people from stepping of the curb in front of on coming traffic....what will I gain from it?

I know CPR/first aid.... but what will I gain from helping someone who is choking?

When my old lady was screwing around for years I'm glad no one told me.

Ya I forgot...it's the right thing to do!

TELL THE WIFE!!!!!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dragan Jovanovic said:


> No,he wont do it. Stop telling him reasons,he just wont do it. He is to afraid. So give the man a break,we are not all born with dignity and self respect. There are all diferent kind of people in this world. Ant to you my good man,you will get through this,one way or another. Wish you all the luck in the world!


People who posture, who revel in the idea of beating people up, they have zero genuine self respect.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

I didnt mean to insult him,I realy think that he should do what ever is working for him,and I truly wish him good luck.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

My English is not so godd,I dont know how to write suptile,I dont know the words,so you may think that im trying to insult someone,but that is not my attention.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

I came here many years ago.

Like you, I was told my story had been seen 1000 times before. I didn't believe it.

Like you, I thought ours was the exception. It wasn't.

Like you, I rejected the advice, defended my now ex wife, and allowed her to treat my like a doormat by valuing her above myself (pedestal). It did not help me heal.

What did help, was realising I had nothing to lose by trying. So i tried. I did the 180 for nowhere near long enough, read No More Mr Nice Guy and thought I was good to go.

My intentions weren't completely pure to begin with - I tried to improve myself to win her back. Put in a little work and got real frustrated when it didn't work.

The cycle repeated and every time it was like a fresh heartbreak all over again.

I can't pinpoint exactly when it happened but there came a point when I was truly doing it for me. I began to learn about my own POS Nice Guy tendencies properly. It became less like a divorce and more like a comittment to myself. To get acquainted with and work on my own problems. The change and improvement was genuine and it stuck. 

When my cheating wife approached me to reconcile, I actually didn't want it and refused.

I won't criticise you for being angry. Anger is part of it and you will be told things that you don't want to hear. But when you're feeling angry, before letting it out try taking a second to really observe what you're angry at. 

It will be one of two things, neither of which are the people here.

I know your story, I've lived one very very similar. If you take this as an opportunity to get right with yourself, the story has a happy ending whatever the outcome as long as you work on you.


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## donesies (Feb 15, 2018)

Man up and 180. As hard as it is, if she says she wants a divorce, then use this opportunity to serve her with papers that are very favorable to you. I did it and the outcome could not have been better for me emotionally or financially.

Do not show weakness. Be stoic and neutral on the relationship. She might fight for it back. She might not. But it’s worth nothing if she doesn’t.

You got this.


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## Heart Break (Jul 6, 2015)

It is really hard to realize and understand, but most of the chances are that your wife is no longer in this relationship. I really understand what you are going through, because I was there 4 years ago with my EX husband. I wanted to fight so hard, I was so angry with him that he is not even trying. I was willing to forgive anything he had done. Cheating, lies over and over again. I literally tried everything that I could think of. And you know, we finally tried to reconcile and I was so happy and excited... but this was just one of his lies. After 2 months i recieved massages from the other women, that he is still writing her that he loves her.... So please do not let you wife treat you this way... be sure you did everything to fight for it but is she is no longer wants this relationship, it will not work.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

sarnold said:


> Maybe I haven't said it during any of these posts, but everyone says expose the affair. There isn't a single person in our circle of family and friends that doesn't know about it. My brother and father know it (mom no longer with us) and have repeatedly said basically to run, that this woman has become unhinged, or always was, who knows. Her family knows. Her mother and sister were and probably still are very disappointed in her. Just yesterday her mom told me she thinks her daughter will eventually regret her decision to divorce me. I honestly don't think her dad cares, he tends to be all business and very little emotion and I'm honestly not positive she told him she had an affair, just that she's divorcing me. Everyone is very sad this is happening and doesn't understand it.
> 
> It pisses me off that the other guy gets off scott free in all of this and still wonder about finding out who his wife is, probably through a background check, and contacting her since this POS doesn't have social media. I've looked for him. I do know his name age and phone number though. Probably enough to really find out if I wanted to pay a little money to do so. In reality though, what would that accomplish? Anything positive other than a small amount of satisfaction from the vengeance? Doubtful. Most likely all it would do is make the relationship between my soon to be ex wife and I irreparably toxic and all that will do is harm my son. I really don't care if any of you think I should for my own satisfaction or to harm my wife or anything like that. Anything that has the potential to play out negatively for my son in addition to all the pain and challenges he will statistically already face isn't worth it in any way, so if that's all you want to say then f*ck you, go be bitter and hateful elsewhere. My only concern is my son and his wellbeing. He's all that matters now. If she does have a realization someday and wants to get back together or anything of the sort, whatever, we can sit down and have a conversation like adults. It's not going to happen though. At least not without some serious counseling and changing on her part. She hasn't even began traveling down that road yet, I have. I'm not saying I don't have a lot of work to do as well, but I have begun and am implementing changes already and it does feel good to make positive changes. All of that is not to say I'm better than her either. I'm not going to go down the tit for tat road and point out her failures and my successes. Theres no point to that. Theres no point to giving any of it any more thought. I can't control anything to do with her, so why bother? All I can do is worry about stuff I can control, which is me and continuing down the road to becoming the best version of myself, so I can be the best father to my son. I will still be there to support her and help her if she wants, but strictly from the standpoint of my son and that she is his mother. If she isn't solid as a person, then how can she be solid as a mother to him? She still wants to play nice, so like some of you have said, time to get out while the getting is still good.


A few things:

Paragraphs are cool.

Don't get too pissed off about OM, it's on you to do something about it

OM gets off scot free if you don't tell his wife. Small bit of revenge aside she deserves to know.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

donesies:

How about an update on your life and how it's going?


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

His wife is pribably still with her boyfriend and he is stil shaking his head in disbelief and is asking him self why does she wont be with him any more. And he will be nice to her in the divorce and he will give her the house,the money and everything she asks. Why? Becouse he is hoping that that will somehow wake her up and make her love him again. What a nice dream. But in reality,his wife will clean him in divorce so her and her boyfriend can enjoy each other and his house and money. By the way,DNA the child...


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Hey SArnold, how is it going brother?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Be sure to do a 180. Let your WW know how excited you are to be single again, and how all these hot 20-ish women on online dating apps say they’d like to date men your age. How excited you are to date college age girls after being with her all these years. And you’re grateful that your WW and the OM will be taking full custody, staying at home every night raising your son and watching Netflix while you are out dating, sewing your wild oats and starting a new, real family.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

You need to detach as you have been advised let her know you will be fine without her and tell her not to let the door hit her in the ass on the way out. The 180 is the best technique you can implement. Trust me. It works very well.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Sarnold hasn't been around for awhile. No Longer Lonely , I think you told him some good advice, but I don't think he's going to take it. It nay be that he wants to commiserate here without doing anything about it.


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