# Looking for advice



## Confused-d (Jan 15, 2020)

My wife and I have been married for 9 years. Two kids(18 months and 3 yrs). Our sex life leaves a lot to be desired but it’s not because of the kids. Our sex life has been about the same for the entire marriage and I’ve just tolerated it. My wife is always willing to have sex but never shows emotion during. Dead fish. I enjoy performing oral sex on her and do so regularly. I have to ask for it from her and it’s either “no” or 30 seconds of bad oral. She’s non-adventurous with sex as well. Missionary, occasional doggy if I ask, sometimes on top but refuses to do anything. She absolutely despises lingerie and says it makes her feel like she’s not good enough. She has never initiated sex. When I’ve tried to talk to her, she gets defensive and it goes nowhere. I don’t know where to go or what to do. Therapy? Just live with it? I do love her and I believe she loves me but I desire something more intimately. I’ve tried weekend romantic trips without the kids and it just seems like sex is a act she’s willing to perform but only because of the trip and that’s limited to once on the trip. I don’t know, someone tell me something. Maybe I’m the problem. Do I want too much?


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Confused-d said:


> My wife and I have been married for 9 years. Two kids(18 months and 3 yrs). Our sex life leaves a lot to be desired but it’s not because of the kids. *Our sex life has been about the same for the entire marriage and I’ve just tolerated it.* My wife is always willing to have sex but never shows emotion during. Dead fish. I enjoy performing oral sex on her and do so regularly. I have to ask for it from her and it’s either “no” or 30 seconds of bad oral. She’s non-adventurous with sex as well. Missionary, occasional doggy if I ask, sometimes on top but refuses to do anything. She absolutely despises lingerie and says it makes her feel like she’s not good enough. She has never initiated sex. When I’ve tried to talk to her, she gets defensive and it goes nowhere. I don’t know where to go or what to do. Therapy? Just live with it? I do love her and I believe she loves me but I desire something more intimately. I’ve tried weekend romantic trips without the kids and it just seems like sex is a act she’s willing to perform but only because of the trip and that’s limited to once on the trip. I don’t know, someone tell me something. Maybe I’m the problem. Do I want too much?


Sadly, this is the best you're going to get. Based on your own claims, your sex life has always been like this. You are essentially asking your wife to change into someone she's never been. 

If you want to stay married, rather than focusing on the negatives, you should focus on the positives. What was it about her that made you fall in love and marry? Is your family life good aside from the sex? Do you have fun with your wife outside the bedroom?


----------



## Confused-d (Jan 15, 2020)

I say that it has always been like this but that’s not entirely true. I used to travel for work a lot and she would greet me in lingerie when I came home from a long trip. The sex wasn’t wild but it was good. I guess what I hope for is that she acts like she wants to have sex. Maybe a birthday blowjob that last more than 30 seconds and without asking. I don’t expect her to turn into someone she’s not. Both of us are probably in better physical condition than when we started dating so we haven’t “let ourself go”. Still asking for too much?

To answer the question, we have fun outside the bedroom together. Other than driving me up the wall occasionally, everything is good. She’s the same beautiful, caring woman that I dated 10 years ago.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you asked her what she wants/needs to be into sex?


----------



## Confused-d (Jan 15, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> Have you asked her what she wants/needs to be into sex?


I’ve attempted to have “sex” talks multiple times and it’s always a disaster. She gets defensive, accuses me of not loving her, cries, etc. I’ve read blogs/articles prior to broaching the subject. Do it outside of the bedroom, not before/after sex, not while the kids are around, etc. None of that works. It’s like talking about sex is taboo. Sex is utilitarian. Sending a flirty text insinuating sex later? Ignored. Making comments of a sexual nature about an upcoming trip? Cut eyes and ignored. I feel like we are adults and talking about anything should be easy. It’s not. We can talk about just about anything else but not that.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Confused-d said:


> I say that it has always been like this but that’s not entirely true. I used to travel for work a lot and she would greet me in lingerie when I came home from a long trip. The sex wasn’t wild but it was good. I guess what I hope for is that she acts like she wants to have sex. Maybe a birthday blowjob that last more than 30 seconds and without asking. I don’t expect her to turn into someone she’s not. Both of us are probably in better physical condition than when we started dating so we haven’t “let ourself go”. *Still asking for too much?*
> 
> To answer the question, we have fun outside the bedroom together. Other than driving me up the wall occasionally, everything is good. She’s the same beautiful, caring woman that I dated 10 years ago.


Yeah, I think you're still asking for too much. There are seasons to marriage just as there are to life. You are in the "baby raising" season of life. I don't think you should give up having sex with your wife but I do think you should lower your expectations of her. 

If she is open to it, you two can seek assistance from a marriage counselor who specializes in sex therapy. They may be able to get her to talk about sex without feeling pressure.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

I'm with Lila, therapy is probably the best right now. Things are going to get worse if needs are not met. Whether that is between you two, or you agree to an open marriage, depends on what you two are like and agree to. Another tool to try might be a passion chart. Lookup A Touch Of Flavor. While the site is geared towards poly and kink, relationships are relationships, and most tools work well regardless of mono or poly. 

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Confused:

There are indeed seasons to a marriage.

Perhaps you do need to lower your expectations.

However, there is nothing that says you have to deliver a high level of service for your wife (assuming you, in fact, are) when she effectively refuses the same.

Have you ever told your wife "no, I don't really feel like it" to something she asked you to do for her? Not the kids, not the house, not within the purview of your responsibilities...but specifically for her?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Everything about your marriage seems happy and normal except for the sex based on what you have said.

I would first say keep that in mind always. That being said , sex is a big part of closeness in a marriage. It sure seems like she has some sort of apprehension about doing it and talking about it. Therapy would seem to be the best option at this point


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

What ever you do - do *NOT *lower your expectations.

When you lower the bar and allow less, that becomes your new standard.


----------



## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Confused-d said:


> I’ve attempted to have “sex” talks multiple times and it’s always a disaster. She gets defensive, accuses me of not loving her, cries, etc. I’ve read blogs/articles prior to broaching the subject. Do it outside of the bedroom, not before/after sex, not while the kids are around, etc. None of that works. It’s like talking about sex is taboo. Sex is utilitarian. Sending a flirty text insinuating sex later? Ignored. Making comments of a sexual nature about an upcoming trip? Cut eyes and ignored. I feel like we are adults and talking about anything should be easy. It’s not. We can talk about just about anything else but not that.


Odds are good she had trauma in her past and never dealt with it. If that is the case, 0% chance you can resolve it just between the 2 of you. She needs professional help. But the first step is for her to admit what happened, and that it had a long term impact on her views toward sex, physical and emotional intimacy, vulnerability, etc. If she won't admit that the abuse changed ehr for the worse, odds are she will never change. 

The people who have success generally adopt the attitude "I am not going to allow the abuser to win. I am not going to let them occupy space in my head. I am not going to let them dictate my behavior (remember, rape and abuse are much more about power and control than about sex or sensation). I am not going to let them interfere with my marriage or other intimate relationships". If she won't admit to herself that the abuse happened, or that it changed her (for the worse), then she cannot possibly get into the mindset that she needs to fight back against it.

Sadly, there are many victims who think they can short-cut the process by declaring "the abuse had no lasting impact on me. I am fine as I am." Even though their behavior screams out that this statement is false. If they will not admit to their internal inconsistency, and keep insisting that "this is just who I am", then there is very little chance that they can participate in a mutually satisfying sexual relationship.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Libidos and ranges of sexual interest vary a lot between people. It sounds like she used to flirt more (lingerie etc), but maybe was never into more extensive / adventurous sex. 

Its deeply unfortunate, but it may be that what you are getting is all you can get. What you want is not unreasonable in general, but may be unreasonable for *her*. It may just be a fundamental sexual mismatch. 

Believe me, I know from experience how depressing / frustrating this sort of thing can be - after >30 years married in a similar situation.

So - all I can suggest is that you change your expectations and be happy with what you do have - which may make sex more fun for both of you. Or leave. I don't see much chance that she will change.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Confused:
> 
> There are indeed seasons to a marriage.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. Having been reading about relationships on this forum for years, time after time husbands are here posting about their unsatisfactory intimate lives (scenarios in which their wife just isn't interested in putting time, energy, enthusiasm into their sex life together, don't give a rat's that her  husband is unhappy, don't care, and even shame him) while at the SAME TIME he is personally treating her like royalty... what a twisted message that sends. That only she matters. That he doesn't matter much. That what he feels doesn't matter.


----------



## Confused-d (Jan 15, 2020)

I rarely tell her no to anything. If she asks me to do something around the house, I find time to do it. If she asks for something(present or just because) she gets it. I regularly take her on trips, which may just be 1-2 nights away from the kids but also might be 3-4 days. So no, she doesn’t get told no often about anything.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Confused-d said:


> I rarely tell her no to anything. If she asks me to do something around the house, I find time to do it. If she asks for something(present or just because) she gets it. I regularly take her on trips, which may just be 1-2 nights away from the kids but also might be 3-4 days. So no, she doesn’t get told no often about anything.


Following up on what @Holdingontoit said, how much do you know about your wife's past? Did you have a vetting period prior to marriage, where you asked questions about each other and determined the degree of privacy each of you felt was needed for your history? And privacy going forward? We are products of our history, and her expectations for sex may be based on her life prior to you. If someone was looking for sex to be a wildly orgasmic ride and orgasms turned out to be elusive at best, they might totally miss out on the idea that sex represents a degree of intimacy, not just a physically wild ride, that is shared only between husband and wife.

Then again, is it possible that you're looking for something unrealistic? Maybe you're looking for that wild ride and missing out on intimacy yourself. Maybe your past was such that you associate sex with the physical act and not the feeling that comes from spending the night cuddled up with the woman you love after you'd made love. Sometimes wild monkey sex doesn't afford that type of feeling.

Perhaps we write off our wives as being not into sex enough because we're trying to connect with the wrong type of sex. A small bit of compromise might find a sex life that's more frequent and more passionate than you thought possible. Maybe the thrashing about gets replaced by longer moments of exchanged pleasant memories and thoughts of the future.

You have something many don't. Your wife is apparently not repulsed by sex. She may have inhibitions that actually do need to be addressed, especially if based upon past guilt. But it's possible it's simpler than that and the solution is at hand.

I think we need not just the 5 Love Languages, but perhaps the 5 Ways to Experience Sex. I don't know about the number, maybe it's 3? But point being, if we don't understand what meaningful sex means to our wife, how do we expect her to happily anticipate sex with us?


----------



## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

A couple of thoughts having been in a similar boat I can tell you that...

1) She’s probably in “mom mode” which means she is consumed with kids. Even if you help out, you can’t turn off her brain. She likely sees you as another child to take care of WRT sex.

2) Could be abuse but there are plenty of other reasons why women turn sex-negative after marriage and especially after kids. Is she on anti-anxiety or depression meds?

3) Took 18 years for my wife to admit to something that happened to her. Women are far more likely to experience negativity towards sex based on past experience.

4) Some women just aren’t comfortable expressing themselves sexually. Especially if they find out their partners are using porn. I’m here to tell you that you can’t create desire from guilt, shaming or manipulation.

5) Women HATE sexual panhandling so the more you complain about it the worse things will get. You need to be a little more aloof about sex. If she’s starfishing you, just quit in the middle and tell her it’s not doing anything for you.

6) You really need to “man up.” She sees you as a beta male and while women love to have a guy serving them they don’t find it sexually attractive. Hit the gym, go out and do guy stuff. Check out Mating in Captivity by Ester Perel.

7) Most women think sex is only about ejaculation for men which is far from the truth in marriage. Someone (a therapist) needs to convey that it is how you connect to her.

Bottom line - work on yourself before you try to bring her into therapy. Get counseling and quit begging or working so hard for sex.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> ...
> 3) Took 18 years for my wife to admit to something that happened to her. Women are far more likely to experience negativity towards sex based on past experience.
> ...
> 7) Most women think sex is only about ejaculation for men which is far from the truth in marriage. Someone (a therapist) needs to convey that it is how you connect to her.
> ...


I think your #3 example, past bad sexual experience, is so much more common than people realize. It's not just "rape" or some other type of molestation. When we're looking for something traumatizing, we probably make it worse when we think well, you must have had something terrible happen like you were raped, because you inadvertently make it seem like the only thing that could have traumatized her was being raped. Our MC was even convinced my wife must have been "raped" which threw her off the trail for some time. The woman who wasn't raped, at least by her definition, thus feels like whatever she went through, it must not have been that traumatic.

Bad early sexual experiences can include submitting, either willingly or by coercion, to sex that they instantly came to regret. Perhaps they became reactionary, for a short time, to their upbringing. Perhaps the sex itself was hugely disappointing and they saw that as evidence of punishment by guilt. 

This type of thing may not come up through normal pre-marital discussions because they feel shameful about it. Matters are much, much worse if they didn't have a close friend to talk with about the experience. It never gets processed on a rational level, just raw emotions that could remain jagged pieces of glass each time she has sex in the future. Vaginismis could result.

I know nothing of this first-hand... no, nothing at all...

#7 is also very important. And again, this could be from early experience with sex, where in many cases maybe it was all about the guy getting off, and then it was over and he was gone. No long term cuddling afterward. Intimacy in marriage can be a very different thing, because sex when married is something shared only with your husband or wife. It's more than just a way to keep a partner interested in seeing you again. It's a connection to their soul. Or can be.

And the therapist. I'll bet most everyone who's been to a therapist has come to the realization they should have done it years previously. Get to it now. It will quite possibly make things worse for a while, before things get better. It's an investment in the forever thing.

And lastly- revisit your marriage, your vows, your promises and dreams to each other, a job review almost, on a regular basis. Stop being afraid to talk about where you are, what's disappointed you, what's been good.


----------



## Confused-d (Jan 15, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Following up on what @Holdingontoit said, how much do you know about your wife's past? Did you have a vetting period prior to marriage, where you asked questions about each other and determined the degree of privacy each of you felt was needed for your history? And privacy going forward? We are products of our history, and her expectations for sex may be based on her life prior to you. If someone was looking for sex to be a wildly orgasmic ride and orgasms turned out to be elusive at best, they might totally miss out on the idea that sex represents a degree of intimacy, not just a physically wild ride, that is shared only between husband and wife.
> 
> I do know that she was married previously and that he was a piece of garbage. Drank a lot, drugs, cheated but I do not believe there was physical abuse. Mental abuse, very possibly. Possibly verbal berating so that she felt inadequate. I’m speculating but I don’t think that it’s out of the question. Maybe that’s what needs to be addressed.
> 
> Again, I’m not really expecting that she completely change and turn into some kind of nymphomaniac. It would just be nice to know that she wants to have sex too rather than just knowing that she’s willing to have sex. An occasional blowjob without asking, slipping into the shower unexpectedly, lingerie for anniversary, just a little something occasionally. I guess some type of mental abuse could cause her to repress doing those things.


----------



## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Its combination of Mommy mode and past history.
I would seriously recommend IC and MC with a sex therapy slant.
This will not get better on its own and you are over compensating for her lousy previous relationship.
You need to find your voice, and she needs to find some closure.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Confused-d said:


> I rarely tell her no to anything. If she asks me to do something around the house, I find time to do it. If she asks for something(present or just because) she gets it. I regularly take her on trips, which may just be 1-2 nights away from the kids but also might be 3-4 days. So no, she doesn’t get told no often about anything.


When she asks you to do things around the house, are they chores/repairs/maintenance that you should be doing anyways? Make sure you recognize the difference between doing things that solely benefit her and doing things that have to be done (by someone) for the benefit of the family. There's a difference between "can you take out the trash/cut the lawn/clean dishes" and "will you remodel the bathroom because I like the color green".

Are those weekend getaways away from the kids time spent with you or is it her going away alone while you take care of the kids? If it's the former, do you enjoy these getaways? Would you do them if she didn't suggest them?

Aside from sex, does she reciprocate with the gifts or doing nice things for you just because? Does she show gratitude when you do things for her or give her gifts, or does she feel she's entitled to them?


----------



## Confused-d (Jan 15, 2020)

Lila said:


> When she asks you to do things around the house, are they chores/repairs/maintenance that you should be doing anyways? Make sure you recognize the difference between doing things that solely benefit her and doing things that have to be done (by someone) for the benefit of the family. There's a difference between "can you take out the trash/cut the lawn/clean dishes" and "will you remodel the bathroom because I like the color green".
> 
> Are those weekend getaways away from the kids time spent with you or is it her going away alone while you take care of the kids? If it's the former, do you enjoy these getaways? Would you do them if she didn't suggest them?
> 
> Aside from sex, does she reciprocate with the gifts or doing nice things for you just because? Does she show gratitude when you do things for her or give her gifts, or does she feel she's entitled to them?


First, all of the above. I take out the trash, load the dishwasher, wash a load of clothes here and there, etc. I don’t usually get asked to do any of that. She sits the trash by the door, I take it out. The grass starts growing, I just cut it. We haven’t done anything like a remodel because our house is 3 years old but if she asks for it, normally it happens.

Second, normally us without kids. Every now and then it’s her with a couple girls and I’ll keep the kids. Thats 2-3 times a year and I normally go somewhere with the guys a couple of times a year too. She doesn’t suggest the trips/getaways but they’re fun and I know she needs an occasional break from the kids/house/etc so I’ll just plan something and line up the grandparents to keep the kids. Then I’ll tell her we have plans. It’s nothing major, just a trip an hour or two away. 

Third, she does very thoughtful things for me. I’ll mention something and she will take it upon herself to figure that out and do something for me. For instance, she recently designed and had a sign made for our farm. Very thoughtful and something I loved but hadn’t even mentioned.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Confused-d said:


> First, all of the above. I take out the trash, load the dishwasher, wash a load of clothes here and there, etc. I don’t usually get asked to do any of that. She sits the trash by the door, I take it out. The grass starts growing, I just cut it. We haven’t done anything like a remodel because our house is 3 years old but if she asks for it, normally it happens.
> 
> Second, normally us without kids. Every now and then it’s her with a couple girls and I’ll keep the kids. Thats 2-3 times a year and I normally go somewhere with the guys a couple of times a year too. She doesn’t suggest the trips/getaways but they’re fun and I know she needs an occasional break from the kids/house/etc so I’ll just plan something and line up the grandparents to keep the kids. Then I’ll tell her we have plans. It’s nothing major, just a trip an hour or two away.
> 
> Third, she does very thoughtful things for me. I’ll mention something and she will take it upon herself to figure that out and do something for me. For instance, she recently designed and had a sign made for our farm. Very thoughtful and something I loved but hadn’t even mentioned.


All of this sounds good. I'm just trying to figure out if what @farsidejunky suggested would work for you. Is there anything that she asks you to do that you do as a favor just for her that isn't necessarily reciprocated (i.e. it's not something for the benefit of the family or you) or something you do that you don't necessarily enjoy doing but do it because she's asked you to do it?


----------



## Confused-d (Jan 15, 2020)

Lila said:


> All of this sounds good. I'm just trying to figure out if what @farsidejunky suggested would work for you. Is there anything that she asks you to do that you do as a favor just for her that isn't necessarily reciprocated (i.e. it's not something for the benefit of the family or you) or something you do that you don't necessarily enjoy doing but do it because she's asked you to do it?


Not that I can think of but if you threw out an idea then it might make me think of something. I mean, I don’t like unloading the dishwasher but I do it. That’s not what you’re referring to though


----------



## Confused-d (Jan 15, 2020)

Another consideration that may matter one way or the other is that she’s a SAHM which I know can be a full time job. However, both kids go to preschool/daycare three days a week so they’re around other kids often. She’s not balancing a career and a household.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Confused-d said:


> Not that I can think of but if you threw out an idea then it might make me think of something. I mean, I don’t like unloading the dishwasher but I do it. That’s not what you’re referring to though


The examples that typically come up are visits to see her family, listening to her talk about her day, providing emotional support when she needs it, watching a TV show or movie that you may not really enjoy. 

Is there anything you don't do because she'd be upset that you were doing it without her? Example spending time with friends or working on hobbies?


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I see two options on what is happening....

1. In general, she cares about you, but just is feeling defensive about her inadequacy in this area, and transitioning to being mom really did get her sideways. This could get better with discussion and / or therapy.

2. In general, she is not into you / attracted to you / doesn't think your "needs" matter. She needs you around for your chores and paycheck and trickles out enough faux affection to string you along.

Either way, don't chase her around or accept pity sex. Man up, start focusing on yourself, your interests, your health / shape. This might fix both scenarios above.

If you have already discussed this, continuing to beg / ask looks weak.

What would happen if you just didn't initiate for a while. Might be a good experiment. You'll figure out if you are dealing with option #1 or #2.

If she eventually asks why you stopped initiating, she is probably #1, you can ask about how it feels when someone doesn't initiate....and push for change.

If she doesn't say anything and just goes about things the same, actually enjoys not being burdened with your requests, you know it is #2, and you have a bigger issue to deal with.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Confused-d said:


> Casual Observer said:
> 
> 
> > Following up on what @Holdingontoit said, how much do you know about your wife's past? Did you have a vetting period prior to marriage, where you asked questions about each other and determined the degree of privacy each of you felt was needed for your history? And privacy going forward? We are products of our history, and her expectations for sex may be based on her life prior to you. If someone was looking for sex to be a wildly orgasmic ride and orgasms turned out to be elusive at best, they might totally miss out on the idea that sex represents a degree of intimacy, not just a physically wild ride, that is shared only between husband and wife.
> ...


----------

