# looking for a way to survive



## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

I will make this as short as possible. Three years ago my husband made plans to visit an old friend he had been searching for for years and had recently found. I bought new clothes, packed his bags and sent him on his way. OOOps. He actually went to see his old fiance ( 23 years past), spent 6 days with her, went to a condo, spent time with her family, and visited an old friend and his wife with her. He had an affair, to which it took 9 months before I finally got the truth that it had been physical. I was lied to, called names, made the "bad" guy in our marriage, and I didn't suspect a thing. He has said many times that this is where he wants to be, he does not have contact with her anymore. But.......... Every night when I go to bed with him I wonder if he did this with her or if she did that, I question why he does or does not do things that he used to. I watch tv and see a movie or a show and in it someone had an affair or reconnected with an old love and it's right there in my face again. She used the term "soulmate" to describe her feelings toward him, makes me ill. I did but do not have contact with her. He lied to her about me and to me about her. But it's been three years, I just cannot keep reliving this over and over. How do you make it stop? I honestly can tell you that it hurts just as bad today as the day I realized it was happening, only then I had the burden of discovery, the hunt to get proof, now I have a reflection in my mirror that I don't know. I went to counseling, found out that I could stand up on my own, but I didn't want that. I want to enjoy my marriage. I want to want to go to bed with my husband, I want to forgive his indiscretion, I want to sit on my porch and grow old with him. I have read, listened, talked, followed advice, done everything I can think of to do. But still every night when I crawl into bed, there it is again. How can I put it away?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You will not get over what he did unless he does a whole heck of a lot more than it sounds like he has! Why do you still have those questions after 3 years?? He should have answered everything a thousand times for you by now. You should be in MC that HE initiated, with someone specializing in infidelity. He should have apologized a million times and offered to serve you his balls on a silver platter if that's what you need to heal.

So, what has he done to help you??


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Unfortunately it doesn’t stop and will be with you for the rest of your life now, like an old friend. How you deal with it is 100% in your control. So take control, do what you must, and find out what and how much you can bear, because the memory and a trigger will always be there. You need to find a way to be at peace with or without H.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He is the one who was unfaithful, but it sounds like he has done very little if anything to make it possible for you to heal. Do you have the whole truth? Has he offered it or made you drag it all out of him? Is he still trickling out the truth? Does he just want you to 'get over it and move forward'?

He needs to work to help you. Counseling and complete openness and patience.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Thanks, his fall back is always " this is where I want to be or I wouldn't be here". I know it's probrably not the right thing, but he has never "confessed" anything, if I ask, he will answer. I want him to just sit down and tell me the whole darn story. I feel like I only know parts and have to guess at the rest. I'm pretty sure I actually know it all, but it has never come from him. Pisses me off. I know that he has to deal with it everyday too, but he's the one that did it! How do I get him to just open up and talk about it? And no, he did not attend counseling, and yes he said he was sorry ( along with "what else can I say" ). URG !!!!!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You tell him that he either starts acting like he is truly sorry or you are filing for divorce.

What does 'truly sorry' look like? Here's a bit about it:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html#post498294

"INDICATORS OF REMORSE
* Actions match words.
* Accepts full responsibility for the affair without blaming the BS, a bad marriage, or other outside factors.
* Expresses sorrow for hurting the BS and the M.
* Shows compassion and actively assists the BS with handling triggers.
* Does not become defensive or shut down when BS brings up affair-related emotions, issues, or questions.
* Answers questions honestly and completely.
* Does not avoid the BS or become frustrated that the BS is not “healing fast enough.”
* Contributes at least 60% of the joint effort at rebuilding the marriage.
* Actively works to understand why he or she made the choice to have an affair and shares insights with BS.
* Does not think solely about himself or herself. Considers how actions impact the BS.

Remorse is so important to R. It's the conerstone that everything else is built on. Without it, the M can not heal.

Remorse involves far more than just saying "I'm sorry." It's conveyed through consistent actions. The above list is not comprehensive, but it is meant to be an example that the FWS's behavior should be clear sign that he or she understands the pain the A caused and is committed to healing the M. Simply hanging around the house is not remorse. And it is not R. "

For me, in our R, this is what my husband does:
He has done everything a truly remorseful wayward needs to in order to reconcile. He realizes what he did and doesn't EVER want to do it again. He reads, attends his group, we both attend MC, we talk. There is VERY little he hasn't done that a WS should and needs to do. He owns his sh!t. He works hard every day to help me recover and to keep our marriage getting better. And he does it all with an attitude of remorse. He doesn't balk at what he needs to do. Even this long past the first Dday I can tell him that something triggered me and he is apologetic and fusses over me. The fact he is this way has meant that I can be that way with him too, when he needs me to be. 

Also print this out and tell him to read it

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/40052-understanding-pain.html#post590281

And the Newbie link in my signature is a must read.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

There are several threads here right now about people whose spouses had affairs and then they were swept under the rug for years. One woman is polygraphing her H 25 years after the affair. Another is divorcing 20+ years after. A man is seriously considering leaving the marriage after his W's infidelity 12 years ago. In all cases, the betrayed spouse tried to soldier on without getting all of the truth.

You can get the truth if you demand it. If you don't do this there's a good chance that it will never be dealt with and you will be in the same position that these others are in.

It sounds like your H decided to meet up with an old flame, spent a week with her, had sex with her and then came home to you, all on his own terms, all his decisions. That's really so much NOT OK that it isn't funny. Are you supposed to be grateful that he 'picked' you after he tested her out after so many years? Sorry. Really not OK.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

so far he's done very little to help


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Wow, you all really do understand ! Sometimes I think that I just sit and think about it so much that I am the one who is stopping the progress of healing. I know what I need and it is so nice to hear you all say the same thing. I'm not crazy. I had no idea that my H was planning to meet his ex fiance, I never once suspected he would have an affair. I believed, loved and trusted. And when it was discovered, again it was me, learning, talking, trying. Is that what this really boils down to? I this the "missing link", him? I realize that I need answers, that I need his imput, but I think what I really need is for him to participate. How do I accomplish that? And yes I guess he does feel that I should be satisfied that he "chose" me, he has never said anything to the contrary.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> You tell him that he either starts acting like he is truly sorry or you are filing for divorce.


This. Plus the rest of my big long post up there


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You can tell him everything that you need, write it down even and give it to him, but since it's been so long since D day he isn't going to take you seriously.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

So now what? If I tell him that I need him to take me thru the affair and he refuses? He really is a good guy, I know that sounds like bs, but he is. I know that he made a mistake. Why ? Well, I only have my theory's, and when I offered those to him, he agreed. He has never , not once, offered, stated, shared, apologized, or discussed his affair without my prompting. I am just at a point where I don;t know if I can keep up this front anymore. I keep hoping that tomorrow will be a better day, that something will change with me so that I can feel better. Tonight I just need to sit down and tell hi m that I need more from him, even if that is only the truth about the affair. It's a place to start.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Patswife said:


> So now what? If I tell him that I need him to take me thru the affair and he refuses? He really is a good guy, I know that sounds like bs, but he is. I know that he made a mistake. Why ? Well, I only have my theory's, and when I offered those to him, he agreed. He has never , not once, offered, stated, shared, apologized, or discussed his affair without my prompting. I am just at a point where I don;t know if I can keep up this front anymore. I keep hoping that tomorrow will be a better day, that something will change with me so that I can feel better. Tonight I just need to sit down and tell hi m that I need more from him, even if that is only the truth about the affair. It's a place to start.


I guess what it boils down to is, are you prepared to live your life the way you have been forever, or are you willing to do what needs to be done to change it?

You can't force him to tell you, but you can tell him what you will do if he doesn't tell you. And then DO it.

If he really is such a great guy, he will jump at the chance to help you. If he doesn't, then there really isn't much more I can say that I haven't already. It's a very sad fact that most waywards act like your husband and few like mine.

Have you read the newbie link in my signature?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Soulmate? I think the term should be A-Soulmate! :issed:


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## SecretTears (Jul 18, 2010)

Hope1964 said:


> I guess what it boils down to is, are you prepared to live your life the way you have been forever, or are you willing to do what needs to be done to change it?


Totally agree with this! You basically have 2 choices:
1) keep wearing a bandage over your heart and let it drive you crazy until you "grow old together", which might take a long time
2) confront him, get yourselves some help and work it out, which will likely be extremely painful at first but it will probably allow you to lead a peaceful life and healthy relationship in the long run. 

You see first hand that you can't keep sweeping your emotions under the rug anymore because it is destroying you emotionally. So what is your plan?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

AM2013 said:


> It was a choice and you WON!


This is how the WS should feel, not the BS. The BS is the one who chooses to R even after what the WS did. Feeling like my WS 'chose' me is like saying I was in some kind of warped competition or something which is bullpucky. HE FVCKED UP. Period. I was and am FAR better than anyone else he cheated with. Thinking of them as my competition is way far beneath me.

Saying to forgive and all is fine, but what has GOT to happen is, he has to step up to the plate here. If he doesn't, he doesn't deserve your forgiveness OR you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Patswife,

Cheaters lie. Remember that. 

Keeping you in my thoughts.

Openminded


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Marriage shouldn't be a 'pick me' game. You shouldn't feel like you are fortunate and grateful that your H is deciding at this particular point in time to be faithful to you. That isn't honoring your marriage vows. He's already broken them very, very badly.

If you're the type of person who feels gratitude that he deigns to choose you, then you'll be fine - eventually, maybe, possibly.... If you want the truth to be able to move on, however, and you want mutual respect, then he needs to do some work to help you.

You think he's a good guy, but a good guy doesn't do what he did. He carefully planned and hid a full vacation with another woman. He slept with her and was clearly thinking about leaving you for her. This isn't honorable behavior. There's a part of this good guy that is not so good. He should face that if he wants you to be his W, in my opinion. The least he could do is offer you the truth of his affair.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Well, I chickened out last night. I asked him to read some of the messages on TAM, and he did. Spent a few hours on it, then I had him read my thread. He got up, let the dog out and we headed to bed. I asked him what his plans for today were, he answered and we went to sleep. This morning, not a mention of it. He knows what I am feeling, he knows what I need. But apparently I have to beg him to discuss it. I just don't know if I really care enough anymore to demand it. If he can't face it, and won't openly discuss it........


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You don't realize it, but you are probably in the process of deciding whether you choose him. You are trying to clarify what you need and what you will accept to continue the marriage. If your H won't take real responsibility for his extremely self-absorbed and hurtful actions, you may have real trouble down the road and I think you are feeling this.

FWIW, you may well have to force the discussion after he's read your thread. You need the discussion. Don't be afraid of being seen as the nag or b!tch by forcing it. For any marriage to work, in my opinion, both people have to choose the other in a very committed manner & the problems you want to discuss are absolutely fundamental. Why would you chicken out on something so important?


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

I feel like I am just pressing an issue that he does not want to. I keep dealing with it, he seems to be able to put it away. Sometimes it feels like there is just something wrong with me for not being able to let it go. He says he is here and that's where he wants to be, end of discussion. But it just isn't enough. I can't help but feel that I still don;t know the whole truth. He says they had sex just once, I've been married to him for 20 years, come on, please ?! He called me names and said some very hurtful things about me, yet can't explain on his own, or denies that he even said anything of the sort. When and if I bring it up it's always the same, I do the talking, I ask the questions, he gives me vague answers that I have heard before or repeats past questions in an answer. Like did you do this because? Yeah that must be it. Being the nag gets old. Makes me feel like I have a problem. I know things are not getting better, he knows things are not better. But it seems easier to just avoid it than get that disgusted "we have to go thru this again" look. And since it really is the same old thing every time, why bother anymore? I don't think he will ever give the truth up. I thought that maybe by reading this thread, and by scouring over the other posts here that he would see, but here is me making another excuse for him, maybe he just needs some time to sort it all out?! Maybe tonight he will be ready to talk? I guess I need to set a deadline, let him know, and then be prepared to follow thru. But ..................
I'm hopeless.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

No, PW, human behavior is very predictable. That's what makes therapy work - therapists study human behavior and are able to use their knowledge to help other people through very difficult times.

Your H is behaving in a standard way. He is what is called rug sweeping. Of course, it's easy for him to just want to forget it and move on because he is the one who did the betraying. He's not the one who was so hurt. And you are the one who can't find peace with the rug sweeping because you are the one who was so betrayed. You follow a common pattern for a hurt, betrayed spouse in your needing certain things from him in order to really reconcile.

If he wants the marriage to work, he will need to work with you on your terms. If he doesn't really care whether the marriage works, he won't help you with this process. 

The reality of reconciliation after a betrayal like this is that the WS doesn't get to call the shots. He may argue with this and he may not like it, but it is what it is. It's simply how these things go.

So, you can choose for yourself what you will live with. You have choices. He has choices. If he's disgusted with the process, he can leave. If you're fed up with his insensitivity, you can leave. No one is in prison.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I see you're reading Granny7's thread. That is really what happens. There are many, many cases like hers. She is not an outlier. Please think carefully before you agree to continue to rugsweep.

BTW, your H shouldn't want this either, in my opinion, but who can tell?


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

There are so many things.......... He was wrong, he lied, he hid things, told half truths. He says he is here because he wants to be. I am reading and learning and seeing things that make me shudder at the thought. Why is it that I feel guilty? How did I let it go this far? Why is it that I get all fired up and ready to make things happen, and then chicken out and leave it alone? Am I really that pathetic? You are right, he is rug sweeping, and so am I. But I am miserable. I can give advise, but I can't take it. I am lost.


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

Patswife said:


> There are so many things.......... He was wrong, he lied, he hid things, told half truths. He says he is here because he wants to be. I am reading and learning and seeing things that make me shudder at the thought. Why is it that I feel guilty? How did I let it go this far? Why is it that I get all fired up and ready to make things happen, and then chicken out and leave it alone? Am I really that pathetic? You are right, he is rug sweeping, and so am I. But I am miserable. I can give advise, but I can't take it. I am lost.


I feel for you. It's so much easier said than done. 

There is nothing wrong with you. It's a _good _thing you feel the incongruousness of it--it shows you're seeing the truth of what's going on. No, he should not be brushing you off like this in my opinion either. He isn't taking responsibility or seeing the pain he's causing in you, obviously. 

The sad fact is, as others have written, you have to decide what you're willing to put up with. Are the good parts of your relationship worth it to you to feel like you do right now periodically for the rest of your life? Are you willing to start over again? Threatening to leave him or going ahead and filing for divorce may shake him up--but then again it may not and then you're left with him calling your bluff. 

Maybe it's a good time to start working on a Plan B so that at least you have your options lined up and don't feel forced into accepting this situation. I know it's so painful--but you're right in everything that you're feeling.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

I just never thought it would be me! I know that everyone on here has said the same thing. I'm not sure that I am ready for "plan B" - sometimes I think it would be easier if he just said enough is enough and walked out the door. I do better in crisis mode anyway !


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

Patswife said:


> I just never thought it would be me! I know that everyone on here has said the same thing. I'm not sure that I am ready for "plan B" - sometimes I think it would be easier if he just said enough is enough and walked out the door. I do better in crisis mode anyway !


I know. It is another form of disrespect that he won't let you go either. You're really caught between a rock and a hard place.

Well, looking on the bright side somewhat, if you do keep letting him hear your point of view, he's likely to make a decision pretty soon one way or the other. Either he will face up to it or run away from it.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

I think about the fun we used to have, all the things we had to deal with, the house, the kids, the folks, our friends. How can it all just go up in smoke? How do you accept that what was is gone and that what is new isn't anything you remotely want anything to do with? I told him that I was having hard time justifying my actions because I do not want to give my children the "wrong" ideas. If my daughter has a boyfriend that cheats, I want him gone, kicked to the curb, end of story. But I let Dad stay? How is that right?! And why did none of these thoughts occur to him before he made the decision to run off and play ? Why is it that he gets to make all the choices and everyone else has to pay for them? If I met him today I would turn and run, but 20+ years makes me want to give it a chance, continue what we had planned. Between rock and a hard place is an understatement ! OOOOH this is all so confusing !!!!!!!!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Patswife said:


> Well, I chickened out last night. I asked him to read some of the messages on TAM, and he did. Spent a few hours on it, then I had him read my thread. He got up, let the dog out and we headed to bed. I asked him what his plans for today were, he answered and we went to sleep. This morning, not a mention of it. He knows what I am feeling, he knows what I need. But apparently I have to beg him to discuss it. I just don't know if I really care enough anymore to demand it. If he can't face it, and won't openly discuss it........


So he knows pretty much entirely how you feel about it and that you are considering divorce over it and he still won't lift a finger to avoid that result.

What does that tell you?

To my mind it's all the info you need to know his true feelings about you.

He doesn't care.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

tacoma said:


> He doesn't care.


Unfortunately I'm beginning to feel you may be right. :banghead:


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

Or he's scared stiff and ashamed and thinks that acting like it's not a big deal will convince you to let it go. 
At the very least he's being extremely selfish.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

So what exactly was the deal with the OW? She was his ex-fiance who he was apparently enthralled with. What happened to their 'love'?


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Ok, I needed that! Bam ! Wake up call no doubt. The OW left him when he was in the service and out to sea. Cleaned out his bank account and that was that. She married and went on, he went his way. skip forward 23 years and they find each other on facebook, she is widowed, and suddenly he is in a bad marriage and has been for years. No one listens to him. That would be me. And he's off on his adventure. Why he came home? I cannot tell you. She stuck by him through most of the d-day crap. She and I had many not so nice words. In the end she came clean, we were never friends, but we both respected what the other had been put through. She wished me well and vanished.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

So now, let me ask a few questions. Either he is scared and ashamed, or he wants out? So I need to confront the issue, but at the same time he might just lie to me some more and of course I will believe him like I always do, not because I really do but because I am trying to keep from being alone? So where does all this land me? Either I am a fool for trying to save this marriage, or I am mean and only believe the worst, because I cannot trust what he does say? Oh God help me !!!!!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Try to remember that he doesn't want to be alone either. You still didn't say why he 'chose' you after Dday. The POSOW was fighting for him, no? The answer to this might help you figure out what's going on with him.

There's a real scourge these days with people reconnecting with exes on fb and then running off with them, completely in the throes of nostalgic fantasy. The vast, vast majority of these cases end up with *very* dashed hopes and extremely dented marriages.

So, what happened? Was it a fantasy that wasn't so great in the real world? Or were there other reasons that he had for staying?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

In my opinion, PW needs to believe that staying in this marriage is worth her while. For me, it would be all about feelings and commitment. If he wasn't committed because of his feelings for me, it simply wouldn't be worth it to me to stay. So, getting to the bottom of what/how he felt then and what is going on in the closed book that he is now would be absolutely essential.


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

> So now, let me ask a few questions. Either he is scared and ashamed, or he wants out? So I need to confront the issue, but at the same time he might just lie to me some more and of course I will believe him like I always do, not because I really do but because I am trying to keep from being alone? So where does all this land me? Either I am a fool for trying to save this marriage, or I am mean and only believe the worst, because I cannot trust what he does say? Oh God help me !!!!!


Oh my goodness, you have no reason to feel guilty. This was his doing and his choice. What he needs to do now is sit down with you and talk it all out to your satisfaction. 

And if he isn't doing that, then that says something, it really does. Whether about his feelings or his maturity level. 

You asked what if your daughter came to you with this same problem. That is a very good way to look at it. From the standpoint of a parent, would it really matter what his motivation is? After 20 years of marriage, I'd guess he must have some feelings for you still. But from an outsider's point of view, it's clear he doesn't have your best interests at heart. That is what would be concerning to anyone who cares about you (and of course you'd want your daughter to have the self-respect too to know she didn't have to settle for this. But that is maybe a selfish point of view; it's your life and you're the one who has to live it). 

And it's true, like it or not, if you daughter were to find out about the affair, this is the example you're setting. It's not fair, you didn't ask to be put into this position, but there it is.

I still say that maybe hounding him until he makes up his mind is not a bad idea.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Well, here is where I am at today - thank you for all of the advice. I was up past 4 this morning talking with my H. I was right when I said I thought I knew just about everything, but the details were fuzzy. Not anymore. He says that he was afraid to tell me because he did not want to hurt me anymore, and that he was ashamed of his actions because he did not have a reasonable explanation for his actions. I buy that. As for the silence, he says that he was afraid to do or say anything for fear that it would make me mad, he did answer the questions that I asked, but did not further explain, he did last night. I understand now a little bit more of how he feels and sees himself, but also let him know that I needed to see that part to know that he is truly remorseful. He promised to try harder. I also found out that reading here on TAM opened his eyes to how he is truly viewed, and he says that it is mild compared to the way he sees himself. We will continue to work on sharing our feelings, we have put sex on hold for a while, he promises to be more attentive and spend quality time with me. We will see if he does. Again, thanks for all the advice, good words, eye openers, etc. You all gave me the strength to stand up and do what needed to be done, for me and for my marriage.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Marriage shouldn't be a 'pick me' game. You shouldn't feel like you are fortunate and grateful that your H is deciding at this particular point in time to be faithful to you. That isn't honoring your marriage vows. He's already broken them very, very badly.
> 
> So, I'm intrigued... you would want your spouse to stay with you/ return to you to honor their vows ( as a form of obligation ) , and not because they chose you over another person ? ( free will :they prefer you, they love you, they choose you).
> Marriage is all about having chosen eachother. And choose eachother again if it must. Aren't you glad you landed them, and not someone else?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> alte Dame said:
> 
> 
> > Marriage shouldn't be a 'pick me' game. You shouldn't feel like you are fortunate and grateful that your H is deciding at this particular point in time to be faithful to you. That isn't honoring your marriage vows. He's already broken them very, very badly.
> ...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Patswife said:


> Well, here is where I am at today - thank you for all of the advice. I was up past 4 this morning talking with my H. I was right when I said I thought I knew just about everything, but the details were fuzzy. Not anymore. He says that he was afraid to tell me because he did not want to hurt me anymore, and that he was ashamed of his actions because he did not have a reasonable explanation for his actions. I buy that. As for the silence, he says that he was afraid to do or say anything for fear that it would make me mad, he did answer the questions that I asked, but did not further explain, he did last night. I understand now a little bit more of how he feels and sees himself, but also let him know that I needed to see that part to know that he is truly remorseful. He promised to try harder. I also found out that reading here on TAM opened his eyes to how he is truly viewed, and he says that it is mild compared to the way he sees himself. We will continue to work on sharing our feelings, we have put sex on hold for a while, he promises to be more attentive and spend quality time with me. We will see if he does. Again, thanks for all the advice, good words, eye openers, etc. You all gave me the strength to stand up and do what needed to be done, for me and for my marriage.


Good luck PW (and P )!

This is very positive. It sounds like you actually communicated and have some answers that you can work with. Best of luck.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Well, I can tell you all that the last two days have been exhausting. My H and I were up again last night till after 3am. At this point I don't know if we are actually solving anything, but it is so nice to just be able to talk about it. I still have many many questions, but he is answering them to the best of his knowledge as they pop into my head. Sounds strange, but the intimate details seem to make me feel the best, maybe because I know that he is not hiding anything from me? Anyway, I feel like this has been a long time coming, lots of why's I still don't get, but I am discovering that some of those he doesn't have an answer for either. But I believe it's not that he is hiding, or dodging, he just doesnt have an answer for me or for himself. I hear so many of you say that I should not settle for being chosen, well I understand and can only come back with I don;t feel like he "chose" me, I feel like he didn't choose her. There is a difference.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

That's all good stuff 

Just make sure he's aware this will go on as long as YOU need it to go on. He doesn't get to put a time limit on things here.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

that is understood. We still have a long road ahead.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Patswife said:


> that is understood. We still have a long road ahead.


Tell him that YOU HAVE NOT MADE YOUR CHOICE YET!


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

TDSC60 said:


> Tell him that YOU HAVE NOT MADE YOUR CHOICE YET!


That sounds a bit harsh at this moment. I think that working and understanding each other, with the goal of recovering this marriage is where I will leave things right now. I don't see that it is fair to add another twist to this drama. Part of recovery is not to give or take "control" - to do this together. We are actually doing that at the moment, I don't want to spoil it.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Just wanted to share. No 3am chats last night, but also no secrets. the affair is no longer "off limits", I asked a question out of the blue last night and he answered without rolling the eyes, I have made sure to consider his feelings thru all of this, seems to be the key. He knows what he did and he has to deal with the disappointment in himself as well as the disappointment I have. I think we are on the right track.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Today we had snow, an of course the plow trucks buried my car, go figure?! So, I called my H at work and asked him if he would stop and pick some things up at the store. He said how about when I get done he come pick me up and we will go together? 20+ years of marriage and he is going to the store with me? AMAZING !!!!! He really is trying !


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

New question? One of the things that my H told me during out talks was that when "they" had sex, that he knew it wasn't going to get any better. I wonder, and maybe I shouldn't, but does that mean that if the sex had been great, he would not have come home? I feel like he had this "fantasy" and the realization that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be, well, I hope that this was the "slap in the face" that woke him up, but still, kinda hard to stomach. Any thoughts?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Of course it was all a fantasy. That's what affairs are. And don't go trying to compare the sex YOU have with him with the sex SHE had with him. I know that is impossible, but just try, because it doesn't really matter.

The book Not Just Friends has a list of questions in it for BS's to ask the WS. I was finally able to put my questioning to rest when we worked through them.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Heading for the bookstore - thanks.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Just an update : I asked him the question, and he said " no and yes". He stated that when the sex was done the thought was that "this relationship" is never going to get better, did the sex really stink? Don't know, but his recall of it does not sound like it was fireworks and wow. Would better sex have made a difference? He says that yes he may have been better able to justify his actions in his own mind, but it just wasn't there, says that this was his "slap in the face" moment. Interesting.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I am interested to hear if you got that book and found the questions I was referring to, and if you asked him them


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Ordered it from Amazon - will let you know when it gets here and I get thru it.


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