# testosterone poisoning and other musings



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Disclaimer: I don’t believe you can be a good H unless YOU are capable of honestly and accurately “self assessing” and in the process realizing both your overall weaknesses and the mistakes you make in specific situations. When my W and I have conflict I start with me and my piece of the puzzle. If I realize I am partly/fully to blame I give an “unqualified apology for my part” AND promise to make a good faith effort to handle the situation properly if it comes up again in the future. Unless you are doing that, you cannot expect your W to do better. 

I do not however apologize just to make “peace” and never, ever apologize because I am hoping to get laid in the near future and don’t want a “silly argument” to jeopardize my shot at having sex. If you have “this stuff” down pat, read on.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
Definition: A “poke” is a message delivered in a style that would anger/offend/insult a typical adult of either gender. The content “may” be valid. Often it isn’t. That said a poke is a disrespectful behavior which can eventually erode the foundation of a LTR. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>

You are going about your day - everything seems "fine" and without any warning at all your W who you truly love - POKES you. The "how" and "why" don't matter. What DOES matter is that there is no warning and while her POKE isn't hateful it is carefully placed. 

You respond in anger. She POKES you for doing so. You proceed to lose it. FWIW your particular version of losing it does not matter. The truth is you have now done or said something that in the cold, harsh light of day is simply not defensible. 

The follow up to this is that most if not all the focus is on your "over reaction". And so you apologize even though she started it. Sound familiar?

The result of this conflict is very simple. In the span of 10 minutes her respect for you has decreased and your respect for her has increased. Repetition of this process over time produces the following result:
W pokes you – you immediately apologize. 

Congratulations – you have now compressed the time to reduce her respect for you and increase your respect for her from the 10 minutes mentioned above down to under 1 minute.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Disclaimer: I don’t believe you can be a good H unless YOU are capable of honestly and accurately “self assessing” and in the process realizing both your overall weaknesses and the mistakes you make in specific situations. When my W and I have conflict I start with me and my piece of the puzzle. If I realize I am partly/fully to blame I give an “unqualified apology for my part” AND promise to make a good faith effort to handle the situation properly if it comes up again in the future. Unless you are doing that, you cannot expect your W to do better.
> 
> I do not however apologize just to make “peace” and never, ever apologize because I am hoping to get laid in the near future and don’t want a “silly argument” to jeopardize my shot at having sex. If you have “this stuff” down pat, read on.
> 
> ...


MEM - I would swear you were writing about some undiscovered tribe of Eskimo's in the North Pole if this stuff didn't hit so close to home!


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## bluesky (Jan 29, 2011)

Truer words have never been spoken.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

So, do you ignore the initial poke?

What if its one of those pokes that has some basis in the truth? Do you poke back? Let her know she's out of bounds and walk away?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The self-assessment is necessary to know how you cope with and handle 'pokes'.

I think what MEM is saying is: "Know thy self."

Being able to tell if the poke is playfully provocative, a passive aggressive cheap shot, or an attempt to deflect or pull you into her own emotional tempest is part of the assessment. 

Being able to identify it may certainly help you to execute an appropriate response. But ... overall a poke is generally meant to inflame. 

Knowing whether you need to break out a fire extinguisher, or 'get low, and go' is part of taking ownership of yourself.

Yelling at the fire is seldom a good way to extinguish it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

W comes home from work. I have cooked a nice dinner. Kitchen is a little messy (which she dislikes). She very quickly pokes me about the "mess".

I smile and say "nice to see you to darling. Hey lets try this: Thanks for making me a nice dinner, and doing the laundry"

She will quickly apologize when that happens. 

And I will then promise to make more effort on reducing the "mess" going forward.

If however I am just clearly in the wrong - and the poke is really solid in substance but rough in delivery style: I just suck it up and say "fair point - I am sorry - I will fix it".

When I am flat out in the wrong on the subtance - it is "blameshifting" to try to change the focus to her "delivery style". 





nice777guy said:


> So, do you ignore the initial poke?
> 
> What if its one of those pokes that has some basis in the truth? Do you poke back? Let her know she's out of bounds and walk away?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

If a snub or criticism is a poke, my H does it all the time.
I respond by acting like I don't care.
Exhibit A:
"geez honey, you just shove things into this cabinet like you just don't care."
me: "well then it's a good thing you're so good at organizing it."
exhibit B: 
"why does your backpack *always* end up in front of the couch?"
me: "because I live here."
exhibit C:
"why is it that when you wash the dishes, the glasses never get clean?"
me: "because they're made of clear glass."

I don't know if it's the "right" way to handle a poke, but I know it doesn't lead to a fight, and I do not take the defensive.
I know that I don't do that crap to him; I don't like the way he loads a dishwasher, but if he does it, I just let him know I appreciate that he does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

Judging by what you describe as the poke is an interesting way of putting it together... But if one is looking too much into it they obviously will fall for it everytime... Well with me I will be honest, I'm a bit of a jerk... I will sometimes snap at the poke, but I never apologize because it's real and raw emotions... But my wife boggles my mind, I know that I must have unintentionally poked her... But she laughs it off, then we go on with our day...


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## TrueGentleman (Apr 29, 2009)

MEM, you have once again described my life with an uncanny degree of accuracy. She does this all of the time

Would you consider a poke to be a minor s#!t test?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LOL - priceless.

"Yelling at the fire is seldom a good way to extinguish it."






Deejo said:


> The self-assessment is necessary to know how you cope with and handle 'pokes'.
> 
> I think what MEM is saying is: "Know thy self."
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG,
I think I would call this a **** test. 




TrueGentleman said:


> MEM, you have once again described my life with an uncanny degree of accuracy. She does this all of the time
> 
> Would you consider a poke to be a minor s#!t test?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

It's a chance to practice emotional judo.



Deejo said:


> The self-assessment is necessary to know how you cope with and handle 'pokes'.
> 
> I think what MEM is saying is: "Know thy self."
> 
> ...


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> So, do you ignore the initial poke?
> 
> What if its one of those pokes that has some basis in the truth? Do you poke back? Let her know she's out of bounds and walk away?


In the early years of my marriage, my wife claimed that it was an act of disrespect, but I usually just preteneded that she never said anything. Did it on purpose. I asked if she could see the irony in that.

Eventually, I responded, but the results didn't go over well. She tends to think the the great comebacks much later, when it doesn't matter. It might help if I mention that I had a really embarrassing run in with a law enforcement officer in the town where the creator of Star Trek grew up while driving to our honeymoon, so the theme became a basis of our joking. So, if she asked if I just enjoyed making such a mess when I cooked, I would usually respond with something like, "so, is this the episode where someone kidnapped Lt. Ohura and replaced her with an evil clone?"

Hours later, she would reply with something like, "Captain Kirk is an a$$."

In the end, though, I felt like a jerk for replying in kind, so it seemed to take the fun out of poking for her.

In the embarrassing run in with law enforcement in Cairo, Ga, we had been driving for hours, and I was nodding off at the wheel. When the deputy pulled us over, I woke my wife and told her to pick up the map and act like we were lost. The deputy noticed that she was holding it upside down and gave me a fat ticket, then escorted us out of town.


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## OOE (Mar 17, 2011)

:iagree:

Towards the beginning of my past marriage, the pokes would always build into a HUGE argument ending with her crying and me apologizing. I didn't really apologize for an action, but for "making her cry."

The tears were one of her controlling tools.

Eventually, yes, she'd poke, I'd apologize. By then, I had "WELCOME" tattooed on my forehead.

She's also very intelligent and extremely quick with the jabs and pokes. The battles were exhausting, so it became easier to just concede at the front end "to keep the peace."

That pattern became so ingrained that my current GF had to break me of the habit. It took months of her reminding me to stop apologizing.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Opening episode of the Sopranos.

Tony's mother - quite a catch that one.

An associate asked Tony how his father handled being married to her all those years.

"At the end, he was nothing more than a whimpering gerbil"




OOE said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Towards the beginning of my past marriage, the pokes would always build into a HUGE argument ending with her crying and me apologizing. I didn't really apologize for an action, but for "making her cry."
> 
> ...


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## wanttobehappy56 (Mar 31, 2011)

Man this is sooooooooooooooo familiar, why was I always apologizing for everything. It became exhausting to fight with her because formulates arguments in her head so fast that I don't have time to think of an appropriate response. So I just conceded the fight before it got started, which made me lose my confidence and self-respect, which is probably why she thinks she can still boss me around even though we are separated. 

And I let her, that's the crazy thing.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Yes my wife is constantly 'teasing' by her own admission. The rest of the world, the normal part of it, would call it relentlessly psychotic abuse that approaches sadism.


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

Used to get "poked" and tested all the time. Too bad i didn't know what those were back then. Since manning-up and shaking things up a little it's be a really quiet on that front. Makes you wonder ?


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

My wife must be an alien because I don't get these pokes or at least I'm too dumb to notice them  I've never been one to keep the peace just for the sake of keeping the peace so maybe this happened early on and I didn't react in a way that would keep the pattern up.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Kobo said:


> My wife must be an alien because I don't get these pokes or at least I'm too dumb to notice them  I've never been one to keep the peace just for the sake of keeping the peace so maybe this happened early on and I didn't react in a way that would keep the pattern up.


Kobo,

They are talking about something I am not familiar either. 

I don't like to play games, I don't like to fitness test my man, I don't poke him either! 

I used to react with anger if something he did or said bothered me. Now we understand each other so well, we don't do things or say things to make the other one upset anymore. I know what he doesn't like me to say, so I just don't say those silly things anymore. I know what he likes me to do, so I just do things he likes! And my husband is the same.

I don't enjoy all the fights and conflicts couples have. I don't like feeling bothered! That really gives me a heavy chest. I do my best to avoid having heavy chest!


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Kobo,
> 
> They are talking about something I am not familiar either.
> 
> ...



My wife tested me in other ways. Never in the manner of rude/disrespectful comments. At least not yet. We're in our mid-30's, 11 years into marriage so this may be something to come.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kobo said:


> My wife tested me in other ways. Never in the manner of rude/disrespectful comments. At least not yet. We're in our mid-30's, 11 years into marriage so this may be something to come.


You'd have heard them if they were coming.

So, you can relax.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

This stuff is very real. I must say my son mostly has it down to a T. He has a lovely partner who at times will playfully “poke” him with a criticism. He responds first with body language as though he’s considering what’s been said and then he’ll come back with humour, sometimes aimed at himself. On the other hand I have seen him respond with anger when the criticism is aimed at one of his strongly held values and is unfounded.

But this poking can be really serious, deviant stuff. I could see my wife was having an EA with a supposed buddy. He was “easy to talk to” and she’d wear revealing clothing whenever we were to get together. He was living by himself, I played tennis with him and started asking him round for meals. The last time he was round my wife had set the table up very differently. Usually it was two of us on one of the long sides of the table and the other on the other side. This time, it was my wife at one short end, me at the other and the guy in the middle between the two of us. The table’s quite long.

It felt very strange and I wondered why she’d set the table that way. I was soon to find out. My wife started poking me to antagonise me from the other end of the table, with the guy between the two of us.

Historically my wife had learnt this form of poking of husbands from one of her friends who did it to her husband. When she did it to me the first time I said something like “I’m not “Fred” I don’t take that stuff from anybody, let alone my wife. I don’t see the humour in it”. But she went and did it again sometime later. So next time we were out in company I poked my wife. I can tell you she was not a happy bunny, unsurprisingly she just could not see the humour in it, the supposed “funny side”.

I’m quite pleased with myself that I’d actually noticed the dining table had been set up differently. I didn’t respond at all to her poke and just carried on with conversations. But while I sat there I thought my goodness, she’s set all this up for confrontation while supposed buddy is having dinner with us.

I don’t believe supposed buddy was part of a “conspiracy” with my wife because of his body language. I saw his jaw drop in surprise and his head go down as he turned round to look at me after my wife said what she said, after she’d poked me.

Bob


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

AFEH said:


> This stuff is very real. I must say my son mostly has it down to a T. He has a lovely partner who at times will playfully “poke” him with a criticism. He responds first with body language as though he’s considering what’s been said and then he’ll come back with humour, sometimes aimed at himself. On the other hand I have seen him respond with anger when the criticism is aimed at one of his strongly held values and is unfounded.
> 
> But this poking can be really serious, deviant stuff. I could see my wife was having an EA with a supposed buddy. He was “easy to talk to” and she’d wear revealing clothing whenever we were to get together. He was living by himself, I played tennis with him and started asking him round for meals. The last time he was round my wife had set the table up very differently. Usually it was two of us on one of the long sides of the table and the other on the other side. This time, it was my wife at one short end, me at the other and the guy in the middle between the two of us. The table’s quite long.
> 
> ...


Bob

I believe a lot of women like to play games so they can get their men's attention! 

They say things or do things on purpose to make you jealous of other men. They say things this way and expect you to figure out that's what they really want. 

I am not this kind of woman. I am very direct and forward. My mind can be written on my face. This is who I am, this is what I want, this is what you do to make me happy. It is very easy for my husband to figure me out! I don't like to play mind games, never played mind games.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Bob
> I am not this kind of woman. I am very direct and forward. My mind can be written on my face. This is who I am, this is what I want, this is what you do to make me happy. It is very easy for my husband to figure me out! I don't like to play mind games, never played mind games.



I'm the same way GP.

I don't believe my wife was trying to get my attention. She was stirring it up to get the other guy's attention. I believe she thought he was her ticket out of the marriage.

Bob


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I'm the same way GP.
> 
> I don't believe my wife was trying to get my attention. She was stirring it up to get the other guy's attention. I believe she thought he was her ticket out of the marriage.
> 
> Bob


I guess she didn't get the ticket! 

I think people who like to play games are difficult to live with! At least for me! 

I hate that I have to spend time to figure out what he really wants! 

Just tell me what you want, then I know what to do!


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## CrystalPalace (Apr 7, 2011)

There's a disturbing amount of material in this for me to think about. My wife 'pokes' ALL THE TIME. She thinks it's sassy and she really values it as a quality. It is usually playful. And when she's with not-close friends I'm sure it is (if she's with other males, it's actually a flirty thing). But when you've been married for 10 years it's seldom flirty with me. For example, yesterday morning I was sharing some pretty serious emotional stuff with her. When I called her last night (I'd left on travel) she said "any residual craziness?" Talk about a poke--I'm trusting her with intimate stuff, and she's making light of it later as "craziness."

I feel like with her it's a challenge of my manliness. "Aw, come on--don't be a wimp about it--I was just kidding." If I respond like a sensitive guy (i.e, "I dont' appreciate you saying that, it's hurtful.") then I'm a wussie? If I respond like a neanderthal and put her in her place, then...?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

In my case I think it's pretty dark. It's picking a fight with someone for no obvious reason at all. I mean how MUCH can one person vent? Doesn't it get tiring being that pissed off ALL the time? Well I can you my mom had that martyr complex thing down cold. World class. Nag and needle until she got the reaction she wanted which was an excuse for her to act the aggrieved party. 

Didn't they ever hear that if they're the only one laughing at the joke it's not funny?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> In my case I think it's pretty dark. It's picking a fight with someone for no obvious reason at all. I mean how MUCH can one person vent? Doesn't it get tiring being that pissed off ALL the time? Well I can you my mom had that martyr complex thing down cold. World class. Nag and needle until she got the reaction she wanted which was an excuse for her to act the aggrieved party.
> 
> Didn't they ever hear that if they're the only one laughing at the joke it's not funny?


Runs,

There was one couple I knew who kept on fighting all the time. It was my ex's parents. 

They didn't live together since they couldn't stand each other. Whenever they saw each other, they started yelling and shouting right away. They didn't talk, they yelled. And the wife was always nagging and complaining, she had and has a lot of resentment towards her life, I don't think the husband was in any wrong. He was a very nice man. The wife came from a wealthy family, but he was a poor man. She resented the fact that she married this man. Now she is at her 80's, but he passed away many years ago. I forgot how old he was when he passed away. I remember he was a very nice man. 

My own mother has a lot of resentment towards my father, but she didn't dare to challenge my father. But now my mother think it is because of her, they get to have wonderful children to support them at their old age, she is being difficult for my father now. My mother is struggling with her insecurity issue because my father cheated on her. Now he isn't anymore, but she can get very suspicious even though they are at their late 70's. My father has to give all the keys to my mother so they can have peace in their household. I love my mother, but I can't live with my mother, my mother makes me feel sad by telling me how bad her life is. I guess my father has to suffer, he was the cause of all this! 

Only about this, I don't know much about others. I know that my sisters fight a lot with their husbands. I know my sisters-in-law are not happy with my brothers. I live in a different country, so I know very little about their life. 

I don't like to fight or argue. Like you said, having that heavy chest feeling is tiring. I didn't like it. 

So a couple of years ago I immersed myself in the Bible and life wisdom. Now I have a clear mind about life and what I want, I have stopped letting small things bother me, and it is a great feeling that you don't feel bothered all the time!


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