# Tough Love



## bluezone

Hi all,

Looking for some advice especially from alcoholics who have been able to get sober or other families who have dealt with this.

We have been dealing with my brother, a chronic severe alcoholic, for numerous years...too many to count.

Just this past month my 84-year-old dad had to file a restraining order against him because he was living with my father and continuing to drink. My dad is too old to deal with this shyt. My father had a rough time doing this as this is his son, but he knew it was the right thing to do and we all encouraged him.

My brother went into a homeless shelter, and started to get into an organization that helps homeless people get back on their feet again. We have pretty much cut off all communication with him, except for a few texts back and forth from me to him.

From those of you who know the mind of an alcoholic, is it better to cut off communication completely? He recently started drinking again and got kicked out of the homeless place. 

He is reaching out to me, but I feel like the only way he is going to try and beat this is if he stops relying on family and does this himself. We have given him help over the years, tried rehabs, different programs etc.

About 6 months ago he was taking medicine to help him with alcohol cravings which was really helping, but of course he wasn't compliant. Bottom line is he still wants to drink, and I guess his life hasn't gotten bad enough to stop him. I guess being homeless isn't enough???!!!

Anyway thanks in advance for any advice on the "tough love" deal.


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## Kivlor

It's unbelievably hard, watching a family member crawl into a bottle. Sorry to hear you're going through that.

We tried tough love on my cousin, without success. Dropped him off at the shelter, and cut ties primarily. (one family member stayed in contact) He drank himself into the grave at the age of 38. 

Tried a more gentle approach on my dad and that was a failure too.

AlAnon has the same success rate as quitting cold turkey. 

If you've got the money, the inclination, and if your brother is willing, I've heard there are some great inpatient programs. If the alcoholic won't go to the program and stay, then it's a waste of time.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

It's heartbreaking. The power of alcohol over an alcoholic is mind blowing. If he wants to drink and has no intention of stopping, it'll eventually kill him. When you say that he's reaching out to you, what are his intentions exactly? If you have a family of your own, inviting him into your home will reek havoc on you and your family members. I don't see anything wrong with keeping limited contact but be prepared to get disappointed over and over again. Be prepared to get lied to as well. Do not enable. You can not save him. Let him feel the consequences of his drinking. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## bluezone

Kivlor said:


> It's unbelievably hard, watching a family member crawl into a bottle. Sorry to hear you're going through that.
> 
> We tried tough love on my cousin, without success. Dropped him off at the shelter, and cut ties primarily. (one family member stayed in contact) He drank himself into the grave at the age of 38.
> 
> Tried a more gentle approach on my dad and that was a failure too.
> 
> AlAnon has the same success rate as quitting cold turkey.
> 
> If you've got the money, the inclination, and if your brother is willing, I've heard there are some great inpatient programs. If the alcoholic won't go to the program and stay, then it's a waste of time.


Hi Kivlor, 

So sorry about your cousin and your dad. Drinking to his grave is exactly where my brother is headed and he knows it. He has already suffered seizures from withdrawals, and recently one of his organs started failing. Again...what does it take to get them to stop? Where is his "rock bottom"? Soooo frustrating and completely depressing. 

We have paid for my brother to go to rehab. He has been through at least 4-5 places. We paid for one...he got into the others through welfare, etc. He has NO money, no job, no healthcare other than Medicaid. Can't drive because of multiple DUIs.


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## bluezone

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> It's heartbreaking. The power of alcohol over an alcoholic is mind blowing. If he wants to drink and has no intention of stopping, it'll eventually kill him. When you say that he's reaching out to you, what are his intentions exactly? If you have a family of your own, inviting him into your home will reek havoc on you and your family members. I don't see anything wrong with keeping limited contact but be prepared to get disappointed over and over again. Be prepared to get lied to as well. Do not enable. You can not save him. Let him feel the consequences of his drinking.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Thanks tropical. Yes...the power of alcohol over an addict is something I will NEVER understand. 

I don't know what his intentions are, other than he is lonely and wants to keep his foot in the door to his family. 

Yes I have a family of my own (including kids) and inviting him to live here or be here is NOT an option.


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## Acoa

We went through it with my dad. He eventually got sober, but he had to lose a lot before he decided he wanted help. 

Always blamed his problems on others. Never accountable for his actions, and very willing to lie and manipulate. 

You can stay in contact, but do it with terms. You won't support him. So, he has to have a place or means to communicate (shelter, apartment, phone, whatever, but something.). Don't let him into the home, even to visit until you have regained some trust in him maintaining sobriety. When you do talk, it's only if he is sober.

With my dad, If I could smell booze or visibly tell he was intoxicated, then I would leave or hang up. Wound up going over a year without talking to him. But eventually he reached out to me from an inpatient program. 

He has been sober now for 20 years. But we still have a somewhat distant relationship. He has a lot of toxic guilt and shame and to this day hasn't figured out how to process it. He has his routine, and he is managing his life. But it's a long road, and he has had his share of relapses.


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## Kivlor

bluezone said:


> Hi Kivlor,
> 
> So sorry about your cousin and your dad. Drinking to his grave is exactly where my brother is headed and he knows it. He has already suffered seizures from withdrawals, and recently his kidneys started failing. Again...what does it take to get them to stop? Where is his "rock bottom"? Soooo frustrating and completely depressing.
> 
> We have paid for my brother to go to rehab. He has been through at least 4-5 places. We paid for one...he got into the others through welfare, etc. He has NO money, no job, no healthcare other than Medicaid. Can't drive because of multiple DUIs.


It _may_ be the case that there is nothing you can do. Especially if he's been to several programs, and still drinking. You can't control him, and if he won't be enticed... I don't know what else you could do. Tough love sounds like your last hope. (and just because it didn't work for us, doesn't mean it won't for him)

I'd consider this option, if you're going the tough love route: Don't threaten, notify. Meet with your brother, and explain to him "Brother this behavior is killing my family. It's hurting my dad, and he's too old for this. It's breaking my heart, and I can't have my family go through this. If you decide to clean up, and can keep clean, then we can revisit this. But I've got to stop talking to you until you can find a way to do that."

Then follow through. And sit with your kids, and explain to them that they absolutely must not do what their uncle is doing, and if they ever find a day that think they _need_ a drink, what they _need_ is to never drink again.

It may be that you can at least make this a teachable moment for your kids.

Maybe someone else here will have some better ideas


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## Kivlor

To add to my previous post: I would do something akin to the 180 on your brother. Not to snap him out of it, but to limit the damage he is doing to your family. If he comes back, and cleans up, then great. If not, you'll be in a better emotional state to handle that too.


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## Herschel

I am a firm believer that 9 times out of 10, alcoholism isn't the disease but the symptom. Watching my wife continue to drink to escape reality makes me think that most alcoholics do it because the reality of life isn't worth being sober for. What was he like before he started drinking so much? Did he have other, possibly undiagnosed issues? What does he have in this world to quit drinking for?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bluezone

Kivlor said:


> It _may_ be the case that there is nothing you can do.
> 
> Then follow through. And sit with your kids, and explain to them that they absolutely must not do what their uncle is doing, and if they ever find a day that think they _need_ a drink, what they _need_ is to never drink again.
> 
> It may be that you can at least make this a teachable moment for your kids.
> 
> Maybe someone else here will have some better ideas


Yes, I know that there is probably little to nothing I can do at this point. I told my brother the other day I have run out of sympathy for him. 

As far as my kids, they have seen enough to recognize that their uncle has a lot of problems and his life is out of control because of it. One of my kids already told me he will never drink like his uncle.


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## CantePe

As an adult child of an addict (alcohol, drugs, gambling) the only thing you should be texting back is:

I will no longer enable your alcoholism. I will not support your behaviors while you are an active addict and cannot help you if you will not help yourself.

Until you are actively sober and clean I cannot help you.

That's it, do not enable him. Do not help him. He must help himself, that's the only way he will get and remain sober. It hurts to do to a family member, it'll feel like the sh##iest thing to do but it must be done and you cannot...CANNOT waver from it. Stay the path. You can't help him, he has to help himself.

By the way, I had to disown my father. Haven't spoken to him in 8 years. He is still an active addict. I don't have a father.

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## bluezone

Herschel said:


> I am a firm believer that 9 times out of 10, alcoholism isn't the disease but the symptom. Watching my wife continue to drink to escape reality makes me think that most alcoholics do it because the reality of life isn't worth being sober for. What was he like before he started drinking so much? Did he have other, possibly undiagnosed issues? What does he have in this world to quit drinking for?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Herschel, he started drinking in high school....probably to try and fit in? I guess. I know in high school he used to make fun of other people all the time...maybe to feel better about himself?

He is now late 40's...old enough to stand on his own two feet. 

I'm sure he probably drinks now because life doesn't seem worth it...but he doesn't seem to try that hard to me. He is always complaining...."How can I get a job? I can't drive, etc etc." I have pointed out to him that plenty of people get around without a car and that there are more jobs than what he limits himself to. 

He doesn't have much to quit drinking for, and that's part of the problem. No girlfriend, no kids. Depression and loneliness a part of this, along with not so great social skills.


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## Chris Taylor

Herschel said:


> I am a firm believer that 9 times out of 10, alcoholism isn't the disease but the symptom.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, no. It's a disease.

I wasn't running away from anything. I liked drinking. I'd drink to celebrate anything... birthdays, weddings, sun coming up in the morning, sun setting at night. Life was great. I didn't need alcohol to get through the day. It was my buddy who I wanted to be with, despite having a great family, great job and lots of friends.

OP, he has to do this on his own. Hit the bottom before bouncing back up and only he knows where the bottom is. Willing to detox again, willing to face the issues that alcohol bring. That means tough love from your family.


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## Herschel

A lot of personality and mental disorders seem to manifest itself during puberty and whatnot. I am not saying ta the case, but he may have always felt like something felt wrong and alcohol helped him escape.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bluezone

CantePe said:


> As an adult child of an addict (alcohol, drugs, gambling) the only thing you should be texting back is:
> 
> I will no longer enable your alcoholism. I will not support your behaviors while you are an active addict and cannot help you if you will not help yourself.
> 
> Until you are actively sober and clean I cannot help you.
> 
> That's it, do not enable him. Do not help him. He must help himself, that's the only way he will get and remain sober. It hurts to do to a family member, it'll feel like the sh##iest thing to do but it must be done and you cannot...CANNOT waver from it. Stay the path. You can't help him, he has to help himself.
> 
> By the way, I had to disown my father. Haven't spoken to him in 8 years. He is still an active addict. I don't have a father.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Thank You, CantePe. *THIS is what I need to hear.*

*So sorry* that this disease has taken away your father. 

Yes...it really does feel sh##ty, and I struggle with it when he tries to call or text me. But I know he has no hope except to find the strength and the will within himself to deal with this.


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## CantePe

Self medicating with addiction is a symptom of another disease.

Why is my dad an addict? Because he chooses to be.

His mother was a very cold, bitter and violent mother. On top of that self depreciation and self blame for his brother's death (brain cancer, a few years before the diagnosis he and his brother were in the bush and his brother ended up with a purely accidental blow to the head that caused severe closed head trauma - the brain cancer was never my father's fault).

He chooses it. My brother in law...he chose to replace a drug addiction with alcoholism.

He has lost his license, his vehicle was impounded, he has numerous infractions and charges and fines. He lost his job, nearly lost his wife and two children. Isn't even allowed to sit in a driver's seat to turn on the radio (must sit in passenger seat to do it, part of his conditions).

Yet, he continues to choose to drink. I believe he is self medicating for emotional trauma in childhood (have it on good word from another family member there was some hefty child sexual and physical abuse that they all grew up with).

Now, I'm a child sexual assault survivor. I don't drink (at all), don't do drugs, don't party...two very extreme ends of the spectrum of dealing with trauma. It's a choice to self medicate.

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## tropicalbeachiwish

Trying to figure out why a person drinks like that is chasing your tail. It's something that a non-alcoholic can't understand because they simply don't have the addiction. When an alcoholic drinks, it makes them feel differently than a nonalcoholic would feel when they drink. The alcohol reacts differently in their body. 

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## bluezone

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Trying to figure out why a person drinks like that is chasing your tail. It's something that a non-alcoholic can't understand because they simply don't have the addiction. When an alcoholic drinks, it makes them feel differently than a nonalcoholic would feel when they drink. The alcohol reacts differently in their body.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Yes tropical, I have read that they get a much different "high", a stronger one than non-alcoholics, who just get a buzz. I'm sure there is no comparison.


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## 225985

Kivlor said:


> It's unbelievably hard, watching a family member crawl into a bottle. Sorry to hear you're going through that.
> 
> 
> 
> We tried tough love on my cousin, without success. Dropped him off at the shelter, and cut ties primarily. (one family member stayed in contact) He drank himself into the grave at the age of 38.
> 
> 
> 
> Tried a more gentle approach on my dad and that was a failure too.
> 
> 
> 
> AlAnon has the same success rate as quitting cold turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> If you've got the money, the inclination, and if your brother is willing, I've heard there are some great inpatient programs. If the alcoholic won't go to the program and stay, then it's a waste of time.




Please call it AA. The vast majority of readers will be confused because you are using non standard abbreviations for these organizations. AA is not AlAnon. AlAnon is for OP to attend.


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## 225985

bluezone said:


> Hi Kivlor,
> 
> So sorry about your cousin and your dad. Drinking to his grave is exactly where my brother is headed and he knows it. He has already suffered seizures from withdrawals, and recently one of his organs started failing. Again...what does it take to get them to stop? Where is his "rock bottom"? Soooo frustrating and completely depressing.
> 
> We have paid for my brother to go to rehab. He has been through at least 4-5 places. We paid for one...he got into the others through welfare, etc. He has NO money, no job, no healthcare other than Medicaid. Can't drive because of multiple DUIs.



Is it his liver that is failing? If so he wont get a transplant if still drinking and he will die from this.


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## candle100

If he reached out to you and you have the money to send him to inpatient rehab, it might be a way to go. It's terribly heartbroken to have a family member like that, but we cannot choose who to be our blood.


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## bluezone

blueinbr said:


> Is it his liver that is failing? If so he wont get a transplant if still drinking and he will die from this.



Blue it was his kidneys last time he was in hospital. I'm pretty shocked his liver HASN'T failed yet.


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## bluezone

candle100 said:


> If he reached out to you and you have the money to send him to inpatient rehab, it might be a way to go. It's terribly heartbroken to have a family member like that, but we cannot choose who to be our blood.


Candle we have paid to send him before, unfortunately it didn't work. He has been in rehab probably 4-5 times at least.


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## 1111volcano

My bf is going to detox ttomorrow for 5 days for alcohol. Idk if it will work but i hope it does. Im tired of seeing it all the time and he is not a good influence for my kids. Im so ready ro be over this. He use to breath in a machine like 3 or 4 years ago and that never worked. Hes finally saying after 5 years hes ready to get help. But wants to get drunk before he goes. I think its all bull what hes saying. Im about to evict him because im tired of it

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## bluezone

Volcano I'm sorry to hear about your bf. Yes that seems to be the common MO of alcoholics going in for treatment: one last binge before they go. My brother has said this before going in... In fact if he's not totally drunk on a tear he doesn't want to go in. I hope you get some help/counseling for yourself in all this. 

He can go to detox for five days, but then what? What is his long-term plan to stay sober? That's always the issue I have with my brother. When he starts being on a better path, he has no long-term plan for his sobriety.


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## bluezone

So the latest is that my brother started calling my father after the restraining order was in place. My dad, who is elderly, picked up the first time because he didn't realize who it was. Then he told my brother not to call him. 

My sister was visiting with my dad, and over the course of two days my brother called 14 times. (they did not pick up) My sister called the cops, who came to the house and filled out a report. 

Now my brother is texting me telling me he is trying to get into a homeless program, but he has a message on his phone from the police, telling him to turn himself in. It never f-ing ends. He wanted me to ask my father/sister to speak to the police and "get him out of it". I texted him that what's done is done. He shouldn't have called my father. He is acting like he doesn't remember calling my dad...that he must have "blacked out". Total BS. 

So I struggle with hating him and then feeling sorry at times. But I'm sick and tired of the merry go round. Who else constantly makes their problems everyone else's?


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Do you have the ability to put a block on your brothers number so he can't call your father? I know he could easily get around that pretty quickly but it would give your father a little break before your brother figures it out. Or how about changing his number?

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## bluezone

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Do you have the ability to put a block on your brothers number so he can't call your father? I know he could easily get around that pretty quickly but it would give your father a little break before your brother figures it out. Or how about changing his number?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


That's a good idea to block the number. I will check into it. Thanks ;-) 

I don't think my dad would want to change the number as he's had it so many years, etc.


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## 1111volcano

bluezone said:


> Volcano I'm sorry to hear about your bf. Yes that seems to be the common MO of alcoholics going in for treatment: one last binge before they go. My brother has said this before going in... In fact if he's not totally drunk on a tear he doesn't want to go in. I hope you get some help/counseling for yourself in all this.
> 
> He can go to detox for five days, but then what? What is his long-term plan to stay sober? That's always the issue I have with my brother. When he starts being on a better path, he has no long-term plan for his sobriety.


Hes on felony probation and after the 5 days detox his po is going to put an alcohol monitor on him for 120 days. So idk how to injest all of this. I can't live w/ this, I love him but I need to do what I need to do for me and my kids I just don't know where to start?

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## tropicalbeachiwish

1111volcano said:


> Hes on felony probation and after the 5 days detox his po is going to put an alcohol monitor on him for 120 days. So idk how to injest all of this. I can't live w/ this, I love him but I need to do what I need to do for me and my kids I just don't know where to start?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


You should start your own thread so not to thread jack. Sorry you're dealing with this. If I would have known that my husband would become an alcoholic, I wouldn't have married him. 

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## bluezone

So just to update, my brother was arrested last night because he violated the restraining order by calling my dad. Now my siblings are arguing over whether police should have been notified that he contacted my dad (because he was drunk, I guess?)

Don't know anything else...how long he will be in jail, etc. I know the court does not take restraining orders lightly.

All I know is that he has NO idea how his life causes us all to suffer. They never do.


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## SunCMars

bluezone said:


> Bottom line is he still wants to drink, and I guess his life hasn't gotten bad enough to stop him. I guess being homeless isn't enough???!!!


HE is gone. You have a fuzzy facsimile of him.

HE does not want to drink, he has to drink.

He is gone. He is gone.

My answer would be difficult and illegal.

Take him out into the desert. Lock him in a comfortable cage, keep him sedated until the alcohol and the delirium tremens DT's subside. A few weeks, as I understand.

Then keep him locked up until his spinning chaotic mind comes to a halt.

He is gone.

Oh, you could frame him for some crime that would net him 3 or 4 years in jail. They know how to deal with alcoholics. He would be supervised 24/7.

Sh!t.....your hands are tied. 

He is gone.

Sorry you are here.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

bluezone said:


> So just to update, my brother was arrested last night because he violated the restraining order by calling my dad. Now my siblings are arguing over whether police should have been notified that he contacted my dad (because he was drunk, I guess?)
> 
> Don't know anything else...how long he will be in jail, etc. I know the court does not take restraining orders lightly.
> 
> All I know is that he has NO idea how his life causes us all to suffer. They never do.


He has to feel the consequences of his actions. What would have been the point of the restraining order if it wasn't enforced? He has to learn that he cannot contact your father. They're holding him accountable. Good. I hope no one bails him out. 

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## bluezone

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> He has to feel the consequences of his actions. What would have been the point of the restraining order if it wasn't enforced? He has to learn that he cannot contact your father. They're holding him accountable. Good. I hope no one bails him out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Tropical you are right...thank you.

The problem is that my siblings are in disagreement over how this should be handled. 

I was even unsure as to whether or not he should go to jail, but then I started thinking maybe it's a good thing. Maybe, just maybe...this could be his rock bottom. He knew that he shouldn't have contacted my dad...I texted him that night and told him to stop. Drunk or not. If he was so drunk that he didn't realize he was calling my dad...then that's a lesson in itself.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

bluezone said:


> Tropical you are right...thank you.
> 
> The problem is that my siblings are in disagreement over how this should be handled.
> 
> I was even unsure as to whether or not he should go to jail, but then I started thinking maybe it's a good thing. Maybe, just maybe...this could be his rock bottom. He knew that he shouldn't have contacted my dad...I texted him that night and told him to stop. Drunk or not. If he was so drunk that he didn't realize he was calling my dad...then that's a lesson in itself.


This is about protecting your father. It really doesn't matter why he was calling him or if he was drunk or not. Bottom line is-He was not permitted to contact him and he violated that rule. You did the right thing. He must be held accountable and have consequences. If there are no consequences, then y'all are enabling him. Also, if there are no consequences, then the situations will escalate because he'll walk all over everyone. Hang in there


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## 225985

1111volcano said:


> My bf is going to detox ttomorrow for 5 days for alcohol. Idk if it will work but i hope it does. Im tired of seeing it all the time and he is not a good influence for my kids. Im so ready ro be over this. He use to breath in a machine like 3 or 4 years ago and that never worked. Hes finally saying after 5 years hes ready to get help. But wants to get drunk before he goes. I think its all bull what hes saying. Im about to evict him because im tired of it
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



Codependents can recognize each other. Please go for IC to understand why you put up with that crap. Start with Al-anon.


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## 225985

bluezone said:


> So just to update, my brother was arrested last night because he violated the restraining order by calling my dad. Now my siblings are arguing over whether police should have been notified that he contacted my dad (because he was drunk, I guess?)
> 
> Don't know anything else...how long he will be in jail, etc. I know the court does not take restraining orders lightly.
> 
> All I know is that he has NO idea how his life causes us all to suffer. They never do.




At least he cannot drink now. And don't bail him out. Contact the jail and find out if they offer any alcohol counseling to inmates. 

Remember this thread title.


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## Ms. GP

I agree with @blueinbr . Jail Is probably the best place for him right now. He's being fed, has a place to sleep, and (hopefully) no access to drugs and alcohol. I hate to say it but I would much rather him be in jail right now. He could easily give himself alcohol poisoning in a homeless shelter. The judge may sentence him to a state funded long term rehab facility. I've heard many a sober alcoholic say going to jail was the best thing that ever happened to them, because it allowed them to hit bottom and realize that no one was going to bail them out anymore.


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## bluezone

Just to update again. 

My brother got out of jail...still not sure how that happened, but could have been my sister bailed him out....? Not sure.

He has been calling me for the past couple of days and I haven't been answering. 

Finally today I picked up. He is drinking again...which means he is out of the shelter (homeless program) and likely at a hotel. He is telling me he misses his family, etc etc. and crying.

I told him to get into individual counseling and try and get back on the medications he was taking previously to help with the alcohol cravings. When he was compliant with the medications, it did help him. 

What a nightmare. I feel like he is going to die in a hotel room or in the woods...and not a DAMN thing I can do about it. Can anyone who has been there done that explain why he would choose to drink when he is homeless, no job, family cut him off, etc? It is so frustrating.


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## karole

You haven't really cut him off, OP. Let him go and let him face the consequences of his own choices and actions. He will sink or swim, his choice. There is NOTHING anyone can do for him unfortunately until he really wants to quit drinking. I hope and pray he wakes up before it's too late.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

bluezone said:


> Just to update again.
> 
> My brother got out of jail...still not sure how that happened, but could have been my sister bailed him out....? Not sure.
> 
> He has been calling me for the past couple of days and I haven't been answering.
> 
> Finally today I picked up. He is drinking again...which means he is out of the shelter (homeless program) and likely at a hotel. He is telling me he misses his family, etc etc. and crying.
> 
> I told him to get into individual counseling and try and get back on the medications he was taking previously to help with the alcohol cravings. When he was compliant with the medications, it did help him.
> 
> What a nightmare. I feel like he is going to die in a hotel room or in the woods...and not a DAMN thing I can do about it. Can anyone who has been there done that explain why he would choose to drink when he is homeless, no job, family cut him off, etc? It is so frustrating.


The power of the addiction is so strong, he cannot just quit on his own. He is beyond that. It's heartbreaking, but there isn't anything you can do. 

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## emmasmith

Mental disorders seem to manifest itself during puberty.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

emmasmith said:


> Mental disorders seem to manifest itself during puberty.


Do you think alcoholism is a mental disorder?

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## jimrich

bluezone said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Looking for some advice especially from alcoholics who have been able to get sober or other families who have dealt with this.
> 
> We have been dealing with my brother, a chronic severe alcoholic, for numerous years...too many to count. Why is he an alcoholic now? What happened to him? Where, when and who did this start? I know how I got started drinking, just like my dad, and why we both did. My dad was emotionally damaged as a kid and so was I!
> 
> Just this past month my 84-year-old dad had to file a restraining order against him because he was living with my father and continuing to drink. My dad is too old to deal with this shyt. My father had a rough time doing this as this is his son, but he knew it was the right thing to do and we all encouraged him. Did the dad do the RIGHT THING when the son was young?
> 
> From those of you who know the mind of an alcoholic, is it better to cut off communication completely? I would and did!
> 
> He is reaching out to me, but I feel like the only way he is going to try and beat this is if he stops relying on family and does this himself. We have given him help over the years, tried rehabs, different programs etc. They have to help them selves along with a Higher Power.
> 
> About 6 months ago he was taking medicine to help him with alcohol cravings which was really helping, but of course he wasn't compliant. Bottom line is he still wants to drink, and I guess his life hasn't gotten bad enough to stop him. I guess being homeless isn't enough???!!!
> 
> Anyway thanks in advance for any advice on the "tough love" deal. He doesn't need "tough love" (which isn't love at all!), he needs to understand WHY he drinks and then HOW to heal the old, unresolved childhood wounds that MAKE him drink. In other words, he needs to break out of DENIAL about his past.


A's very rarely go for help until after things get extremely difficult and serious so wish him the best and hope for the best after he hits bottom a few times.


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## bluezone

jimrich said:


> A's very rarely go for help until after things get extremely difficult and serious so wish him the best and hope for the best after he hits bottom a few times.


Hi jimrich. Thanks so much for your post. It helps to hear from someone else who has been there, done that. To answer your questions...

If I had to guess why he is an alcoholic, I would probably guess that he drinks to deal with social situations, which he is not good at. Also because of depression. I'm not sure why he started drinking, but he started young and kept going. There is some history of alcoholism in the family (not immediate family). There has been mention of sexual abuse by a person (not a relative) when he was young...not sure of all the details. So this is probably the emotional damage you speak of.

Did the dad do the RIGHT THING when the son was young? Sorry not sure what you mean by this...my dad did the best he could with raising us. 

I know they have to help themselves (he has attended AA meetings, has a sponsor etc.) He will go a while without drinking and then he just goes on a binge for weeks, then ends up in hospital. I can't tell you how many times he has done this vicious cycle in the past 5 years. 

He needs to understand WHY he drinks and then HOW to heal the old, unresolved childhood wounds that MAKE him drink. In other words, he needs to break out of DENIAL about his past. 

This makes a lot of sense. The problem is getting him to do this. We have told him he needs counseling, etc. but getting HIM to realize this is the most important thing...how do you do that, especially since we have cut off communication and only have minimal contact with him?


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