# The cycle of no sex



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I see post after post describing a viscous cycle of sexlessness...

The husband initiates sex...

The wife refuses/deferrs (later honey)...

The husband feels resentment/frustration...

The wife picks up on it, and feels pressured/unappreciated....

The husband sees this as more rejection, and with no sex begins to feel more frustrated.....(He still has his origional erection)...... 

He later initiates again.....

By now she is pi$$ed and refuuses more forcefully...

Does anyone see a happy outcome to this senario???

THIS IS NOT A HEALTHY ATMOSPHERE......

At this point, one selfless act, an unexpected roll in the sack, a quick BJ, or HJ would defuse the situation, but at this point, the cycle of sexlessness is pretty much self sustaining...sort of like a neuclear chain reaction...

I propose to break that cycle in my relationship...

I told my wife last night I would no longer innitiate sex with her...and from now on if my bedroom door was closed, please knock before entering...

She was not at all happy, but I was trying to prevent a Christmas divorce.....

She seems to feel that if she is not taking care of my sexual needs I shouldn't either.....

Well I'm a pretty good dog, but you have to pet me once in a while or it will be hard to keep me under the porch.....

We will see how things work out.....


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Sounds like you're trying to detach. As far as avoiding a Christmas divorce, it's sort of like moving deck chairs on the titanic. It's sinking, man. Find a lifeboat.


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

I have to say I've never understood this...
Telling a ld/refusing spouse that you won't bother them with asking for sex.

Isn't it like telling a child that hates spinach,
That they will never get another plate of spinach?

Seems like weird reverse psychology where you still lose and she still "wins"




Woodchuck said:


> I see post after post describing a viscous cycle of sexlessness...
> 
> The husband initiates sex...
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Sounds familiar.

I'm afraid what will happen is that your not initiating sex is playing into her hands of not wanting to have sex. She wins.

Then, months from now when you complain about not having sex, she'll come back with "Well, you haven't tried to have sex with me in months." She wins again.

Meanwhile, you will become more resentful and frustrated that despite having a wife that is physically and mentally capable of having sex, you need to resort to taking care of yourself. Masturbation is good for a hold-over, but not as a substitute for an intimate, fulfilling sexual relationship in a marriage.

And you're sleeping in separate bedrooms? Doesn't help.

Assuming that you have been meeting her needs while she has not met yours, you need to stop and let her know why.

"Honey, in order for me to meet your needs, this marriage needs to include an intimate, fulfilling sexual component in order to work. If it doesn't, I can't meet your needs and the marriage will fail."

It was funny how my wife gave me all the reasons why we couldn't have sex... she wasn't interested, she was "old", she was tired, etc... When it looked like we were going to divorce and she wanted to try to save the marriage, one thing I told her was that sex needed to be part of the relationship. It's funny how that old, tired, uninterested lady found a way to become sexual again.

We also wanted to avoid a "Christmas divorce" so I didn't tell her she had to change "today" but told her that come January 1, if things weren't better we'd move forward then. I also started looking for a place to live and let he know I was.

If you want to live in separate bedrooms, in a sexless marriage, that's your choice. But it won't change until your wife realizes that it has killed the marriage.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I hear you! 

My wife and I had sex last Saturday as I was going away on Sunday. The sex happened after I initiated Thursday, Friday and Saturday night only to be rejected. Finally Saturday morning she rejected me again, but I stayed in bed and kept approaching her. Eventually she warmed up to me. We had a great couple of hours of making love and talking and being close. 

I left for a week long golf trip. I sent her a message thanking her for the great time on Saturday morning. She responded with, "It makes me feel so great about us." 

I got back late Friday. Have been trying to initiate since I got home. She is pissed that I am pressuring her. Told me last night, "It has only been 8 days".

I am so tired of being a charity case.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I hear you!
> 
> My wife and I had sex last Saturday as I was going away on Sunday. The sex happened after I initiated Thursday, Friday and Saturday night only to be rejected. Finally Saturday morning she rejected me again, but I stayed in bed and kept approaching her. Eventually she warmed up to me. We had a great couple of hours of making love and talking and being close.
> 
> ...


Man, too much frickin work.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

aribabe said:


> I have to say I've never understood this...
> Telling a ld/refusing spouse that you won't bother them with asking for sex.
> 
> Isn't it like telling a child that hates spinach,
> ...


Wow, you mean if I don't initiate I don't get sex ????

How is that different ???? 

At this point there is no such thing as LESS sex....

I find many women, my wife included, to be hard wired for "wierd reverse psychology"

How many times have you seen a woman refuse to take YES for an answer ? It's in their genes......

See my posts "Not having sex tonight" and "Had a wonderful night???" to put things in context.....


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I do think its important to stop meeting her needs if she isn't meeting yours. You have to be willing to do that to affect change.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

If you never initiate you are running the white flag up the pole. I would recommend you initiate three times as often and consider it a numbers game much like a batting average. In order to get the sex you desire forecast how likely you are to hit safely and then schedule your number of at bats on that premise. Also, with this mindset you can deal with an "out" as it is all part of picking up your bat and having a swing.

I only get lucky about twice/week but I speak of sex, refer to our later sex, text about sex, tell her its off limits tonight because I'll be whitening my teeth (joke) basically every day.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I hear you!
> 
> My wife and I had sex last Saturday as I was going away on Sunday. The sex happened after I initiated Thursday, Friday and Saturday night only to be rejected. Finally Saturday morning she rejected me again, but I stayed in bed and kept approaching her. Eventually she warmed up to me. We had a great couple of hours of making love and talking and being close.
> 
> ...


I was scheduled for prostate surgery, and told my wife a couple of weeks in advance that it might leave me unable to perform....She managed to squeeze me in the night before.....

See my post Not having sex tonight because...... It will give you some idea of her levil of deciet....


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

It goes the other way too. My drive is much higher then my husbands. I want to respect him like he has me in the past. The only time we were sexless was after I broke my neck. It took me 8 months to accept my disability and pain to get on with life. This is the only time we were truly sexless(abstinence). Otherwise it was average and now above average before my major injury. Not once was he angry. His drive is average to above average. Mine is really off the scale high in the last year or so.

My husband has never shown his disappointment or frustration with a rain check when I was completely healthy. I knew he was disappointed too, I could see it by the look on his face. Neither should I get angry with rejection for the night. He gives me rain checks too, which I fully understand. Some months/weeks were less times then others. I seriously do get frustrated and will take care of myself if I have to, which is okay.

We talk about it more now then we did before. Maybe it's because I keep bringing up the issue. This is a pretty important and to many it's a touchy subject.

What really helps us become more attracted to each other is being positive and acknowledging each other. I appreciate my husband providing for us and he appreciates what I do at home. We always compliment each other. Of course we do have our off days, especially when stress levels are high with daily life. My drive hit the roof when I realized how much my husband was doing for me and his enormous amount of support with my neck injury/disability. He's going to stand by my side for life. He shows it everyday and often reassures me. With his positive attitude I want to give him my all. I want to please him in every possible way I physically can.

Talk, talk, talk. Communicating in a nice way is so important. If my husband was hounding me or getting pissed of because I rejected, I'd be very low drive. 

You being angry at her could be working against you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Pester every day to play the averages? Really?


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Sounds like you're trying to detach. As far as avoiding a Christmas divorce, it's sort of like moving deck chairs on the titanic. It's sinking, man. Find a lifeboat.


:iagree:








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

My husband has never shown his disappointment or frustration with a rain check when I was completely healthy. I knew he was too, I could see it by the look on his face. Neither should I. He gives me rain checks too, which I fully understand. Some months/weeks were less times then others. I seriously do get frustrated and will take care of myself if I have to, which is okay 

My wife never honors rain checks...The BJ raincheck to celebrate recovery from a 4 month long ordeal of surgery and 28 days of IV antibiotics..Is mow 4 1/2 weeks past due......Thats not a rain check, it's a lie.......


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> You being angry at her could be working against you


These are wise words. Keep it light, be positive and use the presumptive close, i.e. of course we will be having sex, just a question of when and where.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It's great advice. If you have a spouse who loves you.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> Pester every day to play the averages? Really?


Absolutely. My wife is LD and claims that it never enters her thoughts. I make sure it does. If I am thinking about what I want to do to her, I tell her and create some anticipation. Pestering is weak, all day foreplay and presuming success is not.

The other positive by product is I can actually get her to initiate if I spend time during the day cranking her up.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It's great advice. If you have a spouse who loves you.


Plenty of spouses love the other but are just not interested in sex. Not understanding what it means in a relationship doesn't mean they don't love you, it's just that they don't understand.

But once it is explained, THEN it's a matter of enough love to meet their needs.

I'm assuming OP is already there.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Read the OPs posts. Not much evidence of love there.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Cre8ify said:


> These are wise words. Keep it light, be positive and use the presumptive close, i.e. of course we will be having sex, just a question of when and where.


Not to contradict my suggestion of keeping on trying to initiate, but eventually, whether it's light and playful or insistent, you will get the "I don't like being forced and pressured to have sex." argument.

That's why she needs to know there are consequences to what she is doing.

Also, all this assumes you have no issues contributing to all of this. If you don't, then it's HER problem to solve, not yours and she should realize that.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

So many different angles presented here and they are all valid to one extent or another.

My relationship with my wife can vary greatly and as now we are about once every 3 weeks or so, on the weeknd. I'd be thrilled with 2x a week at our age (married 27 years).

Yeah, she loves me. She knows that men need to feel loved through the physical act of sex (we've talked about it, read the books and did a little counseling) but then it's just a matter of time and she falls back into her old ways.

After reminding her through texts, slaps on the butt and other things, it just gets too tiring when you're rejected time after time.

True, you can view it as a game of averages or odds but when it starts to feel like the huse is stacked against you, why bother? It just leads to more hurt and self-doubt about yourself.

My wife would probably tell you (she's told me) that I've always made her feel loved and desired REGARDLESS of how she's looked over the years, whether she was a size 14 or a 6 (where she is now) or pregnant with one of our kids. In the past year and a half, she's made me feel that way maybe twice. She often wishes we had enough spare cash for her to get a boob job. I have always thought she was fine the way she is but it's always been an issue for her and it comes up every now and then to this day. To be honest, it is difficult sometimes to keep my mouth shut as mind says "A boob job? Why would I pay for that? I hardly ever get to see em anyway!" So far, I've been successful not letting my mouth get my azz in trouble but one of these days.....


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

True. None of the improvement to our situation would have happened without being on the brink of oblivion as I had one foot out the door.


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## needguidance (Aug 17, 2012)

Just stop meeting her needs, plain and simple. Now mind you, are you meeting her needs? You should find out what they are currently because peoples needs tend to change daily. They aren't the same forever due to life and maturing. You might be meeting the wrong needs hence why you are not getting your need met.

On the other hand, if you are meeting her needs then its best to do the complete opposite if you want to use reverse psychology. If she likes quality time with you, start becoming distant. If she likes when you compliment or encourage her, dont acknowledge change or the good things you notice. If she likes gifts, dont buy her any and this is a perfect time (Christmas right around the corner)! If she likes when you do things for her around the house (make sure you continue to take the trash out, that is a man's job) as far as cooking, dishes, cleaning or laundry (clean your stuff and not hers), stop. Obviously physical touch is not in her needs. You'd probably both be equally satisfied if you had the same need for physical touch. Thats funny though. Shes expecting stuff on Christmas morning and nothing there. "Well honey, my needs aren't being met so you're on the naughty list". I'd buy her one gift. A box with gift wrapped with lumps of coal in it lol. Man you have to fight fire with fire.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Toffer said:


> To be honest, it is difficult sometimes to keep my mouth shut as mind says "A boob job? Why would I pay for that? I hardly ever get to see em anyway!" So far, I've been successful not letting my mouth get my azz in trouble but one of these days.....


My wife wants a tummy tuck and Breast reduction. I told her exactly what you've tried not to tell your wife.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> My wife wants a tummy tuck and Breast reduction. I told her exactly what you've tried not to tell your wife.


And how did that work out for you?

God knows I've been tempted but it seems even more passive/aggressive than I usually am!


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Cre8ify said:


> Absolutely. My wife is LD and claims that it never enters her thoughts. I make sure it does. If I am thinking about what I want to do to her, I tell her and create some anticipation. Pestering is weak, all day foreplay and presuming success is not.
> 
> The other positive by product is I can actually get her to initiate if I spend time during the day cranking her up.


If I send my wife suggestive texts, she tells me that is all I think about. Says that it turns her off and wants to be with me even less.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Toffer--It is the only way. She will not decide to become a sexual being without you driving it. Look at it like a salesperson who has to endure many rejections to get to the next yes. Each rejection brings you closer to yes, simple regression to the mean.

Maybe the important part to realize is she is not rejecting to hurt you. She just needs to discard yesterday, not worry about tomorrow, and find her way into the moment. Try to dust yourself off, get back up and show her strength and resolve.

At some point you will string some things together and the pair bonding chemicals will put some wind at your back.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> Toffer--It is the only way. She will not decide to become a sexual being without you driving it. Look at it like a salesperson who has to endure many rejections to get to the next yes. Each rejection brings you closer to yes, simple regression to the mean.
> 
> Maybe the important part to realize is she is not rejecting to hurt you. She just needs to discard yesterday, not worry about tomorrow, and find her way into the moment. Try to dust yourself off, get back up and show her strength and resolve.
> 
> At some point you will string some things together and the pair bonding chemicals will put some wind at your back.


I have to admire your tenacity, lol. I don't agree with you, but I certainly give you credit for having a game plan.

T


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> If I send my wife suggestive texts, she tells me that is all I think about. Says that it turns her off and wants to be with me even less.


This is complete and utter BS. What woman does not want to be pursued and treated as desirable, beautiful and sexy. What you have there is not a natural state and I can't imagine apologizing for finding my woman attractive and alluring... WTF.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Cre8ify said:


> If you never initiate you are running the white flag up the pole. I would recommend you initiate three times as often and consider it a numbers game much like a batting average. In order to get the sex you desire forecast how likely you are to hit safely and then schedule your number of at bats on that premise. Also, with this mindset you can deal with an "out" as it is all part of picking up your bat and having a swing.
> 
> I only get lucky about twice/week but I speak of sex, refer to our later sex, text about sex, tell her its off limits tonight because I'll be whitening my teeth (joke) basically every day.


I disagree. Begging and playing the odds makes him look desperate and needy. I agree with Working On Me. If you show that you no longer care about meeting their needs, it will hit home. Sexual deniers are selfish people who typically get all their needs met with little concern for their partner. They cannot comprehend that their needs won't be met (because we continue to do so) and therefore view yours as a bother. Stop meeting their needs and they may or may not wake up. If they don't, have you lost anything really? You maintained your dignity and self worth. 

This Christmas will be the first time I don't buy my husband a gift in 19 years of marriage. He loves cufflinks and watches and every year I bought him something he would love, went out of my way all year to find the perfect gift, even had some links custom made. Not this year and I told him such. He looked stunned and asked why? I flat out told him (last Sunday) that my needs are not being met and I will no longer meet his. I am not using this as a power play, I just no longer have any desire to cater to him when he does little to meet my needs. What have I lost by telling him this? To me, not much. Either he wakes up or he doesn't. The ball is in his court and it doesn't compromise my dignity.


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> It was funny how my wife gave me all the reasons why we couldn't have sex... she wasn't interested, she was "old", she was tired, etc...



Wow, I thought I was only one who was handed the "I'm too old" line.


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I hear you!
> 
> My wife and I had sex last Saturday as I was going away on Sunday. The sex happened after I initiated Thursday, Friday and Saturday night only to be rejected. Finally Saturday morning she rejected me again, but I stayed in bed and kept approaching her. Eventually she warmed up to me. We had a great couple of hours of making love and talking and being close.
> 
> ...



She was 'tagging' you. She was worried that you might cheat while away. So she (reluctantly) gave you a little taste and, now that you're back home and 'safe', she's closed up shop again.


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> If I send my wife suggestive texts, she tells me that is all I think about. Says that it turns her off and wants to be with me even less.


It's the chasing dynamic. The more you pursue, the more she pulls away. 

Lay off for a few weeks. TELL her that you're laying off for a few weeks.

She's feeling pressured for sex, let her decompress.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

This is very intuitive except it equals detachment and my wife senses it immediately. I have tried it and it leads to ugliness and makes intimacy look like currency.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

Women need to recognize and admit that there is a problem that they have a low sex drive. Until then, you'll be banging nothing but your head on the wall and the Fleshlight you ordered for yourself. 

Sit her down and explain it nicely and as diplomatic as possible. Then get her to say she wants to change for the better like things used to e when you were dating. 

DHEA supplements have worked good for my wife, but I believe that most of it is mental. If she wants to get back to having more frequent sex, then she will stop saying no- most of the time.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> This is very intuitive except it equals detachment and my wife senses it immediately. I have tried it and it leads to ugliness and makes intimacy look like currency.


Cre8ify,

But there are many cases here where the approach you suggest leads to chore sex. Don't get me wrong, any type of sex is great (for a while) but after all is said and done, who really wants to be one more item that needs to be checked off on the TO DO list?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> Look at it like a salesperson who has to endure many rejections to get to the next yes. Each rejection brings you closer to yes, simple regression to the mean.
> 
> *After 27 years of marriage, why do I have to keep selling it? You know, sometimes after you try and sell something for 27 years you begin to think that "Maybe I'm not cut out to be in sales"*
> 
> ...


*From your mouth to God's ears!*


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> This Christmas will be the first time I don't buy my husband a gift in 19 years of marriage. He loves cufflinks and watches and every year I bought him something he would love, went out of my way all year to find the perfect gift, even had some links custom made. Not this year and I told him such. He looked stunned and asked why? I flat out told him (last Sunday) that my needs are not being met and I will no longer meet his. I am not using this as a power play, I just no longer have any desire to cater to him when he does little to meet my needs. What have I lost by telling him this? To me, not much. Either he wakes up or he doesn't. The ball is in his court and it doesn't compromise my dignity.


While I am sorry that you have reached this point, I do believe this course of action is necessary. It aligns your actions with your words and helps avoid resentment.

Another way of looking at it is making your partner internalize thier behavior. If you continue to do nice things for your spouse when they fail to meet your needs, they can ignore the negative consequences, because there are none for them. By withdrawing and not doing things for them, they now must internalize those costs. I really like how TRBE verbally explains why she is doing (or not doing) it. He now has a very clear message, delived both by words and actions, that things are wrong and she is unhappy.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

I hear you Toffer. Everyone has their own unique situation. I think the beauty of this place is there can be so much truth in an anonymous forum. I share what I know has worked...but only for me and I realize that might not translate for everyone.

Attraction is still at the heart of it and I would still be at the starting line if I did not make major changes.

As to the chore sex, that would royally suck and I wouldn't want it either.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

MrHappyHat said:


> It's the chasing dynamic. The more you pursue, the more she pulls away.
> 
> Lay off for a few weeks. TELL her that you're laying off for a few weeks.
> 
> She's feeling pressured for sex, let her decompress.


And then after she decompresses for 6 months or so.........


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

MrHappyHat said:


> It's the chasing dynamic. The more you pursue, the more she pulls away.
> 
> Lay off for a few weeks. TELL her that you're laying off for a few weeks.
> 
> She's feeling pressured for sex, let her decompress.


I agree. I need to lay off for a few weeks. 

But I would I have to 'lay off' for a few weeks, every time we have sex. This means having sex once every few weeks, which to me is unacceptable. 

For me, sex twice a week would be ideal. I could get by with once every 4 or 5 days.


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## needguidance (Aug 17, 2012)

And according to MMSL, you shouldnt go no more than five days without sex because scientifically you're suppose to fill your spouse up with your semen to keep some level high (I'd have to go back and read it for exact information). That's why logically two days a week at minimum is doable if you consider the five day maximum. I personally would prefer every other day, 3-4 times a week. Will I get it eventually? Who knows. I know the first thing is to get her off of BC, thats been the thing I think that has plagued her drive since day 1. You need to start asking more questions and both of you need to pick the point where this downfall began. You never know. Could be something you did, could be something that caused her to see you in a different light, could be medication she got on, could be BC*, could be resentment, or is there any stress? Maybe depression? Analyze!


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## needguidance (Aug 17, 2012)

Find out why she is less receptive to your advances. Be sure to tell her to be radically honest, no point if she's going to give you the soft version of the truth.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MrHappyHat said:


> It's the chasing dynamic. The more you pursue, the more she pulls away.
> 
> Lay off for a few weeks. TELL her that you're laying off for a few weeks.
> 
> She's feeling pressured for sex, let her decompress.


This can be useful if done the right way. Backing off and turning down the thermostat can be helpful, as some spouses feel smothered by too much affection or pursuit. But you can't lay off indefinitely and I would not even tell her. Rather, pull back slightly to give her some room and then observe. Give it 2-3 weeks and see if she attempts to reach out in her way.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

40isthenew20 said:


> Women need to recognize and admit that there is a problem that they have a low sex drive. Until then, you'll be banging nothing but your head on the wall and the Fleshlight you ordered for yourself.
> 
> Sit her down and explain it nicely and as diplomatic as possible. Then get her to say she wants to change for the better like things used to e when you were dating.


Or you could stop with generalizing women and realize that many women love sex and it is only yours who does not. Food for thought young grasshopper.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Or you could stop with generalizing women and realize that many women love sex and it is only yours who does not. Food for thought young grasshopper.


That just pisses you off even more though.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> That just pisses you off even more though.


Agreed! I met my wife when I was in college and only nineteen. There was a girl I dated the year before that who probably really liked sex (judging by the weird places we did it) but we were terrible together...very stormy. I had no idea it was ever anything other than pulling f**king teeth until I landed here and the likes of bright eyes helped the scales fall from my own eyes.

Ignorance was bliss.


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