# The Light Switch (or Water) Dilemma



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Taken from MEM's post on one of Jonny's threads. Stuck in my head since I read it, so I'm looking for some further discussion.



MEM11363 said:


> Next time:
> her: "I'm sorry"
> you: "full eye contact - "if you are truly sorry go get the light" - do not break eye contact until she does - or unless you hear the distant crackling sound of hell freezing over
> 
> Because you are "still" letting her "words" undo her bad actions. This is a very bad pattern.


Makes perfect sense. Love the part about words undoing actions.



MEM11363 said:


> Next time at the beginning of the exchange. "she gives you a command" instead of a request. You smile and slowly turn your head to her (she will VERY quickly learn exactly what happens next - YOU establish this pattern) and you ask in a soft voice "What did you just say to me"?


Still with you…



MEM11363 said:


> Same thing - unbroken eye contact - let her respond. If she attempts to "escalate" you just get up silently let her say whatever she wants and then smiling "Good thing you are a female and my W - in a totally protected class physically - if a GUY spoke to me like you just did he would be lying in a heap across the room" - then just shrug and walk away.


Two things: 1. I haven’t thrown a punch at a guy in years – probably middle school - seems over the top. 2. Sounds like a veiled threat. I don’t even like the idea of insinuating that I would ever physically harm my wife.



MEM11363 said:


> She does NOT want you to tolerate her bossy/biittchy/tone. Truly she doesn't. This is a test she wants you to pass.


Still wondering how much of this is just personality. I truly believe that my wife just wants me to get up and turn the light out most of the time.

My wife often asks me to get her a glass of water. Depending on my mood, I will sometimes see this as a basic, simple request - its what married people do for each other. Other times, if MY mood is foul, it will seem more like a fitness test.

Its a small thing – getting her a drink. But if I want a drink, or if I want a light on or off, I do it myself 99.9% of the time. Asking others for very small favors just isn’t in my nature.

Is this really where I want to draw the line? Ice water and light switches?



MEM11363 said:


> My W is "conditioned" - when she gets the "what did you say with full on body language" she immediately either:
> 1. goes into submission body language and I chuckle and it is over - whole thing takes 3-5 seconds max and does not alter my blood pressure at all OR
> 2. she gives me that wicked smile which means she WANTS to "spar" and then we do
> 
> Fine by me. I know how sparring ends.....


I always wonder if you – MEM – weren’t always a fairly strong Alpha who attracted a Beta spouse. And maybe I’m closer to a Beta, and therefore attracted a woman who is more Alpha. If so, does your advice still apply? 

Do I stop getting my wife water because she doesn’t always say please and thank you, or do I keep doing it because its minor compared to some of our other issues?

Still trying to find that line between being an A$$hole and being assertive with solid boundaries.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I see the glass of water thing as a test, in as much as a test of “How much of my servant/slave are you prepared to be?”. And in that she's put herself way above you in "standing" in the marriage.

Just ask your W to get you a glass of water and see how she responds. If it’s with “Do you think I’m your servant/slave?” then you’ll know where you stand.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AFEH said:


> I see the glass of water thing as a test, in as much as a test of “How much of my servant/slave are you prepared to be?”. And in that she's put herself way above you in "standing" in the marriage.
> 
> Just ask your W to get you a glass of water and see how she responds. If it’s with “Do you think I’m your servant/slave?” then you’ll know where you stand.


If you are right, then I've been failing this test for about 15+ years now!!! And even so, I'm not convinced she's looking for a man who would tell her "get your own water!"

Is this really a "take a stand" kind of issue?

I will try asking her for a drink sometime...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG,
As usual very insightful. Deep sigh - public board - I should have more sense. I COMPLETELY RETRACT the comment about "if you were a guy". It is:
1. over the top 
2. potentially ambiguous AND about violence - TERRIBLE combo - UGH!!!!

Sometimes I say really stupid things. Thank you for pointing that out in your typically diplomatic fashion. 

In full disclosure: My W is a lark, I am more an owl. Once she gets in bed she is "good to go". Our normal routine - I bring her a couple vitamins and glass of water. She always asks nicely or I offer. Lights on/off - fan on/off - same thing. I am glad to do this - it is 100 percent a non-verbal act of service communication that reads: 
"do you love me - yes I love you"

Not only do I "do it" - I do it with a smile. I WANT to do it. So non verbally it is really more:
"Do you love me"
"YES I love you"

An irritated tone or a command translates non verbally into:
"I don't RESPECT you/our marriage enough to manage my emotions"
And my non-verbal response to that is:
"I CARE enough about our marriage not to follow you down this rabbit hole"

Of course the BEST answer to this is something funny:
Her: Get me a glass of water
Me: Repeating with emphasis "get me a glass of water"?
Me: Remember that night we went to "restaurant" with the kids last month?
Her: What?
Me: The reason it sticks out in my mind is there was a server there looked just like me.
Her: What are you talking about?
Me: Smiling - Clearly you have confused me with him - that server guy looks like me. Funny thing isn't it. Talking to your H as if he is your server in a restaurant - instead of your life partner. 
Her: Irritated - I am NOT talking to you like that, can you PLEASE get me a glass of water
Me: Next time - if you ask nicely I will 
After that I stop talking about this and/or leave the room if need be. 

This has zero to do with a small act of service and 100 percent to do with respect/tone. 







nice777guy said:


> Taken from MEM's post on one of Jonny's threads. Stuck in my head since I read it, so I'm looking for some further discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lowest impact approach:
W: Get me a glass of water (or an irritated request)
H: Say "hey" just to get her to look at him
H: Repeats her statement immediately while making unbroken eye contact "Get me a glass of water" - smile of disbelief?
Followed by silence. 
W: Please get me a glass of water
H: That will work fine next time - smiling 
W: Getting worked up 
H: You cannot possibly expect that right after I have had to remind you "shaking his head" that I am NOT your servant, that I am going to get up and act like I think I "am your servant"
W: More wound up
H: Silent - he has made his point - YES this is not fun - but it takes at MOST 2 cycles to break this habit

Obviously there are a lot of subtle variations to this. My W is very loving to me. I am glad to radiate love at her. She is ASKING me "do you love me"? with her requests. If I felt like there was any element of "I am getting on top of you" then I would either start "softly" declining OR begin to mimic her requests asking HER for these small acts of service. 

As for context - if my W was deprioritizing me in 'general' this late night stuff would change. 




nice777guy said:


> Taken from MEM's post on one of Jonny's threads. Stuck in my head since I read it, so I'm looking for some further discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> If you are right, then I've been failing this test for about 15+ years now!!! And even so, I'm not convinced she's looking for a man who would tell her "get your own water!"
> 
> Is this really a "take a stand" kind of issue?
> 
> I will try asking her for a drink sometime...



I guess it's what you want it to be NG. You mentioned it so I guess it's playing on your mind.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I don't ask my W to bring me water at night. Every once in a while in the morning. This acts of service thing is big in her love langauge. Not in mine. I am physical touch. She saturates me in my love langauge and I saturate her in hers. 

I have very little desire/need for her to get me stuff. Though when I ask nicely she does. If I started asking her to "even" things out she would not like that and I can't say I blame her. This is about "overall" fair not tit for tat.




nice777guy said:


> Taken from MEM's post on one of Jonny's threads. Stuck in my head since I read it, so I'm looking for some further discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> Still wondering how much of this is just personality. I truly believe that my wife just wants me to get up and turn the light out most of the time.
> 
> My wife often asks me to get her a glass of water. Depending on my mood, I will sometimes see this as a basic, simple request - its what married people do for each other. Other times, if MY mood is foul, it will seem more like a fitness test.
> 
> ...


I hope you don't mind my chiming in on the female view of this possibly. When I ask my Dear Hubby to get me a hot chocolate, like MEM says I'm really kind of asking him, "Do yo love me?" and I *ASK* in a way that gives him freedom to say "no" or "in a minute when I've finished this...." I think that's the really important part. Is it a REQUEST. 

If I were saying it as a demand, you are darn tooting I'd expect his response to be "NO WAY JOSE!" I am a healthy, capable person and completely able of making my own hot chocolate! (And by the way, in our marriage, Dear Hubby has CFS so it's not like I don't have sympathy for your wife's health). Thus a demand with no freedom to say "no" (...just polite "Oh I'm sorry dear but no, not this time") means I consider him to be my servant or "Less Than" me. That is the part that doesn't fly--not "who gets whom water" or "who turns the light on or off"? Frankly who cares about that? LOL 

If there is a line drawn it's because of a demand or being treated as "Less Than"--and yep if that is the case, I'd draw that line and expect it to be drawn even over water. On the other hand, if it is a request from one equal to another, there's freedom to say "no" with no repercussions, and it's your decision to do this out of the goodness of your heart as an expression of caring--why that's a whole different ball of wax. Then I would say do what pleases you...which may likely be pleasing her. 

Does that make sense?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

AC,
Like most of your posts this is beautifully put. 

I want to add something here that is really, really important. I LIKE that my W asks me to do stuff for her once she gets in bed. I LIKE that she is asking me "Do you love me" in this way most nights. I LIKE showing her I DO love her by doing something for her she could just as easily do herself. My W is VERY fit and healthy - so this is purely on the emotional plane. 

I think my previous posts completely "missed" that piece of the puzzle. This is not a case of:
- Bad tone/command equals - denial of service
- Nice tone/request equals "cooperation" 

It isn't like that. Nice tone/request = "I WANT to do something nice - I PREFER that she ask me". 

She does a LOT of nice stuff for me. WAY beyond sex - though admittedly that part is wonderful. I WANT to reciprocate. Some nights I anticipate and the water/vitamins are just magically on the night table. 




Affaircare said:


> I hope you don't mind my chiming in on the female view of this possibly. When I ask my Dear Hubby to get me a hot chocolate, like MEM says I'm really kind of asking him, "Do yo love me?" and I *ASK* in a way that gives him freedom to say "no" or "in a minute when I've finished this...." I think that's the really important part. Is it a REQUEST.
> 
> If I were saying it as a demand, you are darn tooting I'd expect his response to be "NO WAY JOSE!" I am a healthy, capable person and completely able of making my own hot chocolate! (And by the way, in our marriage, Dear Hubby has CFS so it's not like I don't have sympathy for your wife's health). Thus a demand with no freedom to say "no" (...just polite "Oh I'm sorry dear but no, not this time") means I consider him to be my servant or "Less Than" me. That is the part that doesn't fly--not "who gets whom water" or "who turns the light on or off"? Frankly who cares about that? LOL
> 
> ...


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I think part of what I'm struggling with is that - at this point - its just kind of expected and therefore no longer feels appreciated.

Has been two months since she's moved back home. Seems like we've all had a lot of germs that we are passing around. Add that on top of her fibro/CFS and it just seems like there has been an abundance of such small requests on her part. And although she doesn't always say please and thank you, it doesn't come across as bossy or demanding - just routine.

She did put something on FB last night about how great I am for having made her some Mac'n'Cheese the night before - she has a sinus infection and it was the only thing that sounded good to her. Thinking I might be a "words of affirmation" kind of guy, as this made me feel a little better about the little things that I think she may sometimes take for granted.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

In general - is she being nice/considerate/loving to you?




nice777guy said:


> I think part of what I'm struggling with is that - at this point - its just kind of expected and therefore no longer feels appreciated.
> 
> Has been two months since she's moved back home. Seems like we've all had a lot of germs that we are passing around. Add that on top of her fibro/CFS and it just seems like there has been an abundance of such small requests on her part. And although she doesn't always say please and thank you, it doesn't come across as bossy or demanding - just routine.
> 
> She did put something on FB last night about how great I am for having made her some Mac'n'Cheese the night before - she has a sinus infection and it was the only thing that sounded good to her. Thinking I might be a "words of affirmation" kind of guy, as this made me feel a little better about the little things that I think she may sometimes take for granted.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I see the glass of water thing as a test, in as much as a test of “How much of my servant/slave are you prepared to be?”. And in that she's put herself way above you in "standing" in the marriage.
> 
> Just ask your W to get you a glass of water and see how she responds. If it’s with “Do you think I’m your servant/slave?” then you’ll know where you stand.


I agree - if she is asking you to get a drink on a regular basis - then it's a test. She is thinking - okay, he is subsurvient and willing to do what I ask - test - big time.

Good idea, ask her to get you a drink (regularly) as often as she does and see what HER response is...be willing to bet AFEH is right.

A drink every once in a while - yes - a drink regularly - test. 

I think in 27 years of being together I might have asked my husband to get me a drink less times than I have fingers on my right hand...


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> In general - is she being nice/considerate/loving to you?


In general, we are treating each other politely - like you would treat a co-worker or a roommate.

Going to start another thread with a little more info - broader scope.


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