# What a Counselor will never tell you



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I was browsing around and found this short article from What Your Marriage Counselor Doesn
I'm not a big fan of counseling to try and help the marriage. I think it enables more then it is productive. This psychotherapist listed a few things to help your marriage that she says you'll never hear from a therapist: 


Sixty-nine percent of all arguments between you and your partner will never be resolved. So don’t try so hard.

A couple that doesn’t fight is in trouble.

Having a “good enough” marriage is the most couples can expect and is actually quite an accomplishment.

Letting go is sometimes better than discussing everything to death.

Respect, not sex or money, is the most important factor in a happy marriage.

There are marital breaches worse than an affair.

A therapist cannot teach, train, or guide you to “be happy.” That is not a reasonable outcome to expect from therapy.

For me applying 2, 4, 5, and 7 have helped me the most. I found that respect is the most important thing in marriage and I often feel it's more meaningful to say I respect my H and not that I love him. I feel like the word "love" is too ambiguous and is almost a selfish term these days. But if you respect your spouse then a potential fight will be reduced to a disagreement and you wont debase him/her. 

And I think letting go is key to having a good marriage. Counseling strongly encourages talking as problem resolution but I dont think it works. I actually had a poster on this forum tell me to "stop trying so hard" and that advice helped turn things around for me. But the catch is you have to learn to let go without becoming resentful or playing the martyr (obviously if you're resentful you haven't let go). That is where i think boundaries come in to play.

Not really sure how i feel about 1, 3 or 6. I cant really think of anything worse then enduring an affair. And settling for an OK marriage does not seem like an accomplishment. Also, in regards to #1, I do think most issues in marriage are solved just not the way we think they should be. I think that the issues are almost never solved by talking about them. Usually applying the fourth concept of not arguing it to death is part of what helps to solve an issue, particularly very emotional ones.


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## stuckinlimbo (Oct 20, 2011)

I can't think of anything worse than an affair either. It is the most destructive thing that has ever happened to me.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I've been recognizing lately that so many counselors just chalk everything up to "communication" but in reality I think #5, respect, is the underlying condition - when respect (attraction) is lost I think its the fear of causing pain in your loved one that prevents this issue from being addressed... it looks like a communication issue, but it is really fear of facing the truth or acknowledging that respect/attraction can come and go.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Abuse, physically or mentally is worse than an affair.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Kobo said:


> Abuse, physically or mentally is worse than an affair.


An affair is just another form of abuse.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Kobo said:


> Abuse, physically or mentally is worse than an affair.


It could be argued that an affair is like mental abuse to the BS! it certainly feels like it at times!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trlsntribs (Oct 24, 2011)

Interesting post; I agree with all of them except 3 & kinda 6. Maybe a 'good enough' marriage is an accomplishment to some couples & they're content with it. The life of a marriage is constantly evolving and changing; good times and bad. Both partners usually want to strive for a 'good' marriage and it's not unattainable.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Kobo said:


> Abuse, physically or mentally is worse than an affair.


I would argue that an affair is emotionally, and potentially physically abusive. To me an affair is emotionally abusive on so many levels and if one contracts a disease I would also consider that physical abuse.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> *Sixty-nine* percent of all arguments between you and your partner will never be resolved. So don’t try so hard.


Wow, well ain't that just the magic number hehe ;D


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

wifeofhusband said:


> A big mistake I think people make when going to counseling is expecting that the counselor will 'fix' them or their situation. Doesn't work like that. The client has to do the hard work. Counselor's just facilitate it.


Completely agree. But I also think the majority of counselor's do more harm then good. Most of them just want you to talk it to death and nothing productive comes of it. I just left a counselor I saw for four sessions; he just wanted to hear me ramble while he sympathized. Waste of my time and money.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

RandomDude said:


> Wow, well ain't that just the magic number hehe ;D


LOL ya i saw that, too. kind of random...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

_A couple that doesn’t fight is in trouble._

Oh I have heard this one before!! I think it's true.

And #5 is spot freaking on!


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Jellybeans said:


> _A couple that doesn’t fight is in trouble._
> 
> Oh I have heard this one before!! I think it's true.
> 
> And #5 is spot freaking on!


#5 is spot on and I think respect should be emphasized much more then love. 

One adage that never worked well for my marriage, though, was not to go to bed angry. It usually helps me to cool off for awhile and sometimes the fighting happens at night so i need to let it go 'til the next day.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

wifeofhusband said:


> It can take a while to find the right counselor for you so, if the first one isn't right, try someone else. This is where word of mouth from friends who have used counselors and who they have found helpful can come in.


This guy was my fifth or sixth counselor. I had a religious counselor once who said he brought a rock for me from a "sacred grove" and told me that if i just held it when i was angry it would help calm me down...:scratchhead: Ummm....i'm thinking if i hold a rock when i'm ticked off i'll probably throw it!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

> [*]Sixty-nine percent of all arguments between you and your partner will never be resolved. So don’t try so hard.


While I agree with the spirit of this I`d love to see the "scientific" method that came up with that percentage point.


> [*]A couple that doesn’t fight is in trouble.


Hmm...Why?
My wife and I rarely and I mean rarely ever fight.
What is the basis for this statement?


> [*]Having a “good enough” marriage is the most couples can expect and is actually quite an accomplishment.


Could that statement be any more subjectively worthless?
As if "good enough" were a single consistent standard across all humanity.


> [*]Letting go is sometimes better than discussing everything to death.


I`ll agree with that one.


> [*]Respect, not sex or money, is the most important factor in a happy marriage.


There`s another one I`m on board with.


> [*]There are marital breaches worse than an affair.


Well..duh.


> [*]A therapist cannot teach, train, or guide you to “be happy.” That is not a reasonable outcome to expect from therapy.


That's good as it`s highly unlikely I`ll ever find myself talking to a therapist


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> An affair is just another form of abuse.


An affair is a form of abuse, but...psychological abuse and physical abuse can damage the spirit really badly and when those are combined with infidelity, I'm inclined to believe that the wounds are somehow worse because the underlying message being given and deeply reinforced is that the betrayed spouse is worthless. Sometimes, affairs happen and the wayward spouse isn't emotionally battering the spouse that is being betrayed. Sometimes, the betrayed spouse is betrayed, but has enough sense of self in-tact to be able to recognize that he/she shouldn't be treated this way. With abuse, this distinction is more difficult to make. 

I'm not trying to be combative, just offering another perspective. I do agree with you that affairs are a kind of abuse and disrespect.


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## trlsntribs (Oct 24, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Wow, well ain't that just the magic number hehe ;D


Funny! :lol:


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Respect to me is the most important thing. Nothing unreasonable should happen to the relationship if there is respect.

A few have disagreed with #3. "Having a “good enough” marriage is what most couples can expect and is actually quite an accomplishment."

I agree with this. I never entered my marriage blindly thinking it was going to be all peachy the whole time. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce, any expectations better than a label of "good" must be a rarity. Something to strive for, but good is not bad. It is Good!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

There is a Despair.com poster for 'Consulting' where the tagline would be just as appropriate for Counseling.

Counseling: If you're not a part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem.

I also agree that 'Respect' is the lynch-pin. Without it, everything eventually comes apart ... quite spectacularly.


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## onsyde (Aug 2, 2011)

There seem to be two approaches in counseling. The predominant one seems to be to ignore the history and concentrate on building a fresh relationship with all sorts of exercises and lots of "communication" (which can be a euphemism for one person taking a back seat). I'd venture that an example of this is:
Marriage Retreat - How to Fix Your Marriage

The other approach is to root out all the underlying issues and lay them bare for understanding and resolution. For example:
marriage seminar marriage retreat marriage boot camp dr phil

My guess would be that the latter is far more difficult for the counselors to perform, but far more likely to succeed. Two very reasonable people in a marriage probably will never need outside help. But if one or both spouses have buried personality disorders, refreshing the relationship without dealing with those issues is like building a house on sand.


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## SadieBrown (Mar 16, 2011)

Kobo said:


> Abuse, physically or mentally is worse than an affair.


:iagree::iagree:


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

wifeofhusband said:


> Dealing with some of the most immediate issues and then dealing with past stuff works well. Rarely is the presenting problem 'the' problem.


I partly agree with you. I do agree that understanding the past can be helpful; however, what I have found by listening to Earkhart Tolle's The Power of Now is that there usually is no problem in the first place. I have never had a counselor that didnt want to hone in on the past, which when I was younger was all I talked about with counselors. It was destructive and not productive at all. I think it's way over-done and does more damage then good. But on a very limited basis I can see how it would be necessary. 

When I go to a counselor now I have to redirect them to the present. I am a big fan of Earkhart Tolle. I listen to his audio tract and it has decreased my stress levels immensely. I still have some unresolved issues with my H and they are things that happened in the past (and maybe unresolved issues from childhood), but I dont think it's productive for me, or my marriage, to talk about the past or try and figure out what might "really" be the problem. Tolle says to ask yourself this question, "What problem do you have right now?" What problem do you have this very moment? Not five minutes ago or tomorrow, but right this moment? When I think of it that way usually I have no problem at all, particularly with my marriage. Then I can let it go. This works for about 98% of things that I perceive as problems. I happen to believe men are in this mind set all the time. 

That's not true in all cases. There was one particularly dysfunctional cyclic fight that my H and I would get into and in that case the only way I was able to break the cycle was realizing that the trigger that set me off was from my childhood. But I never actually talked about it. Once I made that connection I was able to stay in the Now. 

There's a lot more to it then that, more then I care to go into here. Tolle certainly advocates addressing a problem when that problem is in the Now and he talks about ways of handling it. He does advocate talking about the past in limited amounts, also. And I'm not entirely resolved on whether I should dig up the past or live completely in the Now (if that's even possible); or even how much of the past is Now and so it's appropriate to react to it. There's always the risk of it building 'til someone explodes. I'm not sure how one would check to make sure that is not happening. But after being to numerous counselors who only want to dig up the past and then have nothing else to offer, I'm inclined to go with Tolle's principle of staying in the Now. I think 98% of the things that I think are problems are worth dropping completely. That seems to be helping.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

tacoma said:


> Hmm...Why?
> My wife and I rarely and I mean rarely ever fight.
> What is the basis for this statement?


Some people believe that if you never fight then there's not a real connection and you'll just drift apart. Men are particularly apt to think that no fighting is a good sign. I've heard it from guys time and again on here that they "never saw the divorce coming." I've heard it once or twice from a girl. 

But you two do fight (read your post) so that doesnt seem to apply to you. The article was targeted at individuals that never fight, not those who seldom or rarely fight.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Blanca said:


> Some people believe that if you never fight then there's not a real connection and you'll just drift apart. Men are particularly apt to think that no fighting is a good sign. I've heard it from guys time and again on here that they "never saw the divorce coming." I've heard it once or twice from a girl.


Ok, that makes sense to me.



> But you two do fight (read your post) so that doesnt seem to apply to you. The article was targeted at individuals that never fight, not those who seldom or rarely fight.


Yes and it only ever happens when we have a problem that seems to be getting ignored.
One of us will finally open up that subject that we`ve been avoiding because we know it`s eventually going to lead to something irreparable.

Thanks for the clarification!!


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

This is me said:


> A few have disagreed with #3. "Having a “good enough” marriage is what most couples can expect and is actually quite an accomplishment."
> 
> I agree with this. I never entered my marriage blindly thinking it was going to be all peachy the whole time. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce, any expectations better than a label of "good" must be a rarity. Something to strive for, but good is not bad. It is Good!


This is a good point. Maybe people have unrealistic expectations so a marriage that is good enough is just plain good. I had very poor boundaries and unrealistic expectations going in to my marriage which made it feel like a horrible marriage. Currently my marriage is good enough, but that some how doesnt feel, well, good enough.


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## BuckeyeAlum (Dec 28, 2012)

stuckinlimbo said:


> I can't think of anything worse than an affair either. It is the most destructive thing that has ever happened to me.


Neither my husband nor I have had an affair (to my knowledge) and our lack of respect for each other has done much more damage than I think an affair could have at this point.


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## BuckeyeAlum (Dec 28, 2012)

Blanca said:


> This is a good point. Maybe people have unrealistic expectations so a marriage that is good enough is just plain good. I had very poor boundaries and unrealistic expectations going in to my marriage which made it feel like a horrible marriage. Currently my marriage is good enough, but that some how doesnt feel, well, good enough.


Bianca, are you in the same marriage now as the marriage you mentioned was horrible? If it is, how did you get from the mindset of "horrible marriage" to "good enough"?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

stuckinlimbo said:


> I can't think of anything worse than an affair either. It is the most destructive thing that has ever happened to me.


I would not say there is anything worse than an affair necessarily. But there are other betrayals just as bad.

My ex withholding sex was just as bad. The standard is to provide sexual satisfaction for me (her husband) and me alone. All ways of willfully falling short of that standard are equally bad (withholding or cheating).

Or, how about serious financial misconduct? I know a lady who's husband spent every penny they had (even took out loans and spent that), then left her. AFAIK she had to file for bankruptcy, move in with family, and start over. Now, affairs suck, but they don't threaten one's ability to feed and house one's family.


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## Mahogany (Jan 2, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> _A couple that doesn’t fight is in trouble._
> 
> Oh I have heard this one before!! I think it's true.
> 
> And #5 is spot freaking on!


If there was any advice I'd seek ought on this forum (newbie) is references to what healthy arguing looks like firsthand. Any good movies, tv shows, or other examples in video medium (visual learner).


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

My marriage is "good enough"...

...and that's good enough for me.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

My mother and stepfather never fought, to the best of my knowledge, and were very happy. But he was a very wise man and she was very good-natured.


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## DrDavidCOlsen (Oct 7, 2012)

Good marital therapist will quickly help a couple understand their interactional patterns. They will not focus on details, but will quickly and directly help couples identify and shift dysfunctional patterns.
A good marital therapist will also help you understand that you can not change your partner - only yourself and your contributions to the problem
David Olsen, PHD, the Couples Survival Workbook


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

BuckeyeAlum said:


> Bianca, are you in the same marriage now as the marriage you mentioned was horrible? If it is, how did you get from the mindset of "horrible marriage" to "good enough"?


Hi Buckeye. I am in the same marriage. It's going from 'good enough' to what I had always hoped it would be. I got to that mindset extremely slowly and painfully and it involved changing the way I valued the existence of other people who are in my life - That and doing a lot of boundary work. It also involved being willing to walk away if my H didn't also make some changes.


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