# Does my Ex have Borderline Personality Disorder?



## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Hi everyone,
I was married for 12 years and have 3 small children with my ex. We divorced in April of this year. I had never heard of Cluster B personality disorders until searching for answers why my ex did what she did to me. 

There seem to be common traits associated with BPD. My ex exhibits some of them, but in many ways, she is totally different than the 'standard' BPD individual. 

Her background:
Her mom and real dad divorced when she was 2. He basically threw her away; in the 12 years we were together I only met him twice. She never talks to him. Her mom re-married and my ex was abused by her stepdad at age 5 for approx. 6 months. Here's what I think really messed her up: HER MOTHER DIDN'T BELIEVE HER, BELIEVED HER HUSBAND INSTEAD. She went to live with her grandmother for a year, then back home. She said she was never abused by him again. They get along now, but she isn't close to him. She's not close to her mother either.

She started dating the same guy since age 12; got married to him at 19; divorced 9 months later. Right after the divorce was final, had her boyfriend move in with her. 4 months later, I met her; we were married 9 months after that.


1) Found out during our divorce that she cheated on her 1st husband before and during the brief marriage. She told me "Once I experienced other men, I knew I shouldn't have gotten married, but it was the right thing to do".

2) She then told me the same thing about her live-in boyfriend: "When he used to go to work at night, I used to go to the bars, bring guys home, and F*ck them". When I told her that she had told me she never cheated, she said "I lied".

3) We were married for 12 years. At the 10 year point, she started going out to the bars. Told me one day 5 weeks later: "Do you mind if I have sex with other men? 
It's only a physical act, there's no emotional ties whatsoever".

4) She also told me: "How can anyone have sex with the same person for 10 years".

She was very controlling. I could only go out with my friends if she was there, too. She said she didn't trust anyone. She told me once "There's no such thing as love". She started cheating on me at our 10 year point, stopped for 9 months, then started up again. Stopped until our divorce was final, then had sex with 14 different guys in 4 months. 

Other traits: She lacks empathy. Extremely jealous. Never admitted she was wrong (I asked her once if, during our entire marriage, she had ever been wrong. Her answer "Not that I can think of". Hardly ever affectionate. Everything she ever told me about her past was one big lie. She uses sex for power and control. She said a couple of times "My biggest fear is being alone". She says she doesn't trust anyone.


Here is why I think she is different from the standard BPD individual:

1) She was always very responsible and reliable. For the 1st 10 years, she was almost the perfect wife. We got along great, hardly ever fought, and did everything together. 

2) Our sex life was great. She never, ever withheld sex for any reason.

3) She was a great mom. After the divorce and throughout the summer, she was very selfish. Her needs first, kids second. But now that school has started, she has become the good mother that she was again. Has the kids involved in sports, always makes sure they do their homework, etc. (BTW, we share joint custody).

4) She NEVER harasses me. She makes sure we get along because of the kids.

5) She never calls unless it's about the kids. Leaves my personal life alone. Never interferes. Definitely not a "Hoover".

6) She never humiliated me. She was never impulsive or filled with rage. Still isn't. Never demoralized me in any way. 

7) When I have to talk to her on the phone because of the kids, she is always respectful. Always willing to work with me about scheduling conflicts. I've never had a problem with her after our divorce.


******After she dumped her first husband, she never spoke of him again unless I brought him up. Same with her live-in boyfriend. Probably the same with me. SHE HAS THE UNCANNY ABILITY TO MOVE ON WITHOUT EVER LOOKING BACK. *******

So my question is, does she have a Cluster B personality disorder? She exhibits many of the traits, but from what I've read, she doesn't exhibit some of the MAJOR traits that are associated with this disorder, either.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Psychiatric disorders should be diagnosed by a professional, in person and not by a bunch of forum folks.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

She doesn't think she has any issues and would never, ever go.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Then neither of you will ever know. Seriously, you're referencing serious conditions that only a professional can diagnose and treat.

Why so much time and attention on the past? Focus on you, the present and the future.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Moulin said:


> Then neither of you will ever know. Seriously, you're referencing serious conditions that only a professional can diagnose and treat.Why so much time and attention on the past? Focus on you, the present and the future.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Because 3 younger children are involved and I'd like to know how her behavior is going to affect them. When my 9 year old sees a belly button ring at the mall that says "Do Me", then turns around to Mom and says "You ought to get that for all your boyfriends", you can say I'm a little concerned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

guitardude said:


> Because 3 younger children are involved and I'd like to know how her behavior is going to affect them. When my 9 year old sees a belly button ring at the mall that says "Do Me", then turns around to Mom and says "You ought to get that for all your boyfriends", you can say I'm a little concerned.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well if you want to know, go get a diagnosis. Otherwise you're speculating.

Be a good parent to your kids. That's all under your control, not your ex's behavior.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...she won't be getting a diagnosis.
...and does sound a bit messed up.
...why worry?
...technically, if you look at diagnostic criteria, probably not, not that it matters.

Regarding your children, yes, their mom is odd...but you can't do much about that. The best you can do is model sane behavior.

--Argyle


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

guitardude said:


> Because 3 younger children are involved and I'd like to know how her behavior is going to affect them. When my 9 year old sees a belly button ring at the mall that says "Do Me", then turns around to Mom and says "You ought to get that for all your boyfriends", you can say I'm a little concerned.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can't fix her or her behavior. If it becomes an issue with the kids, document exactly what happened and then file for an amendment for custody.

The diagnosis is irrelevant.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

guitardude said:


> Does my Ex have Borderline Personality Disorder? Does she have a Cluster B personality disorder?


Dude, I agree with others who have told you that you cannot diagnose your W. Only a professional can do that. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the warning signs for personality disorders (PDs) if you take time to learn what red flags (i.e., symptoms or traits) to look for. There is nothing subtle about traits such as extreme jealousy, absence of empathy, and intense selfishness.

Indeed, hundreds of the very best hospitals and mental health institutions have been trying to educate the public about these PD symptoms by placing descriptions of them on their websites. They know that people are far more likely to seek professional help -- and will do so far more quickly -- when they are able to recognize the symptoms of a disorder.

I agree with you that it is important to know what you and your three kids are dealing with. One reason is that, if your W has a Cluster-B disorder, she may treat your children very badly when they enter puberty and start having independent minds of their own. It is common for high functioning PD sufferers to do well with young kids because they do not pose a threat to the parent's fears. That can greatly change, however, when the children enter early adolescence.

A second reason to know what you're dealing with is that, if she does have a PD, there is some risk it will be passed onto one of your children genetically. A third reason to know is so, in the event you divorce your W, you don't go running into the arms of another woman just like her. 

To protect yourself, it is important to learn what red flags you should be looking for. Otherwise, you are at risk of repeating your toxic relationship with another woman like your W. I therefore suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion (based on your descriptions of her behavior).

As to your question about BPD, the behaviors you describe are inconsistent with BPD traits. Granted, several of the traits you describe (e.g., jealousy and lack of empathy) do overlap some BPD traits. Keep in mind, however, that not all BPD traits are equal. Emotional _instability_ is such a key BPD trait that, when it is missing, you are NOT describing a pattern of BPD traits. Indeed, of the ten PDs, the only one having "instability" as a trait is BPD. Hence, because you are describing an essentially stable W, you are NOT describing a pattern of BPD symptoms.

In contrast, the other two Cluster-B PDs -- narcissism and sociopathy -- are characterized by _stability_ (not instability). Significantly, the behaviors you describe -- the jealousy, hating to be alone, lack of empathy, selfishness, strong feelings of entitlement, black-white thinking, blameshifting, and attention-seeking (through serial cheating) -- are classic symptoms of narcissism.

I caution that all PDs are considered to be "spectrum disorders," which means that everyone has all of the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is NOT whether your W has narcissistic traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she has narcissistic traits at a moderate to strong level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. 

I nonetheless am confident that you easily learn what red flags to look for in order to spot strong occurrences of NPD traits. As I said, hundreds of the leading medical institutions describe these symptoms on their websites. See, e.g., the Cleveland Clinic website at Narcissistic Personality Disorder. And Kathy Batesel's blog provides an excellent overview at Narcissism: Recognizing, Coping With, and Treating It.

I also caution that, if you decide your W has strong NPD traits, it seems extremely unlikely she would have full-blown narcissism if what you say is true. Having full-blown NPD would imply she is incapable of loving anyone, which would contradict your description of her as loving your three children (and perhaps you too at some time). Take care, Dude.


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## rabbcfga (Sep 12, 2013)

Psychiatric disorders should be diagnosed by a professional


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks for the detailed reply, Uptown. I will take your advice and talk to a psychotherapist that specializes in these disorders. There is definitely something wrong with her; just can't pinpoint it.


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

guitardude said:


> So my question is, does she have a Cluster B personality disorder? She exhibits many of the traits, but from what I've read, she doesn't exhibit some of the MAJOR traits that are associated with this disorder, either.


No one here can answer that question for you. Only a psychiatrist can make such a diagnose. Even they can't make a diagnose without seeing and talking with your wife.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Guitardude, there are some people who don't fit neatly into a category. Does she have narcissistic traits? Yes. Is she a narcissist? Doubtful. Does she have BPD traits? I didn't see many in your description. Honestly, sometimes people who do not fit ANY criteria just do hurtful things to other people. Does she exhibit traits commonly associated with sexual abuse survivors? Yes, to a "tee." This means she might or might not have other diagnoses, but I'm not seeing any clear cut indications of anything other than sexual abuse survivor, which are often learned behaviors. 

While we might want to understand, the truth is we might never get any closure or understanding. But we have a duty to ourselves and our kids to go forward and find a healthy, productive life. 

Instead of trying to attach a label to her past behaviors, I would encourage you to stick to what may affect your children today. If you believe they are likely to be harmed by her behaviors, seek legal advice.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks Kathy. I know you remember me  I had a long talk with my oldest son yesterday. Of course he loves his mom, but from the conversation, I think that the love the kids have is not returned by her. 
His own words: I don't know if she loves us that much, she spends every minute of every day texting on the phone, she is not happy unless she has a boyfriend, "I don't care if your dad takes full custody"; she sneaks out of the house at night and leaves us by ourselves, she smokes in the car and when we ask her to stop, she says "Don't tell me what to do!".

I think that she is at the very least incredibly selfish and has always been so. Her needs have always come first, and that looks like it is continuing. From the conversation, she has done a complete 180 of what she was like when we were a family. I was shocked at some of the things he told me. She portrays herself as a responsible parent and loving mother. I think Uptown is correct that as the older they get and see things more clearly, she will turn against them.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

This is a really complex issue.

Some people have traits but are not diagnosed... but on traits alone that are not "good" people.

But yes, you do have kids.. so I would get educated and learn what to watch out for.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Not all BPD show all traits. She is an extreme case, what you described is what I went through to a T except mine was very volatile. Sex was a tool to control men. I would be very surprised if yours didn't cheat the first 10 yrs they can hide the emotion very well. And man could she lie. I luckly got out early, mine has done this game 3 more times since and 3 more D.yours is not finished either. Mine started having sex at 13 and saw nothing wrong with it. When she was 14-17 she claims her mother would let her take guys up to her room and screw them while and she would be yelling with the parents down stairs. Sick and she saw nothing wrong here. She never matured beyond 13! I didn't know any of this until later and it worried me. She had to control all men - father her boss any man like it was a game. Oh could she flirt but if I talked to a girl she would explode in public. She had an older sister and had to do what ever the sister did. When the sister got pregnant she wanted to be too. I moved a way to get away from her, she would send a friend to talk to me (since I stopped all communication with her) to try to get me back and try again. I said NO! Then 9 months after she stopped trying to contact me she married another guy with my same name. That M lasted 18 months. When we separated I was physically afraid of her. She changed my life!! I know exactly what you are going through and she will continue this – she will set bad examples for your kids. _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Good chance she is, it would need to be diagnosed but probably at least BPD - Cluster B refers to extreme cases where they show multiple characteristics but not necessarily all, across several PDs - antisocial, histrionic, narcissistic, and BPD – sex a common theme.


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## Boottothehead (Sep 3, 2013)

Unless you have an incredibly compelling, documented reason, you can't get her to even be examined by a mental health professional. And if she does have BPD, it will be a crazy uphill battle. Like others have said, DOCUMENT. And be there for your kids.


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