# Can I Change Myself to End the Chaos?- LONG!!



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Hi, I am new to the forum and I am turning to "the internet" because I am an isolated stay-at-home mother who doesn't get out much... and I have no one to talk to. I am 33, my husband is 36 and our daughter is 18 months old. We've been together 11 years and married 9 years; none of which have been easy. We have a tendency to argue… a lot. It gets really ugly sometimes. Both of us have misbehaved and said things we shouldn’t have. I don’t know how all of that started and I very much want it to end. But, we seem to be stuck in a cycle. 

Things were okay for about 8 or 9 months. Now, because of the circumstances of the past week, I’m stuck in a “fear response” (meaning I am stuck in a place of anxiety and fear) and I’m sort of walking on eggshells, fearful that anything I say or do will anger my husband and spiral out of control into another one of his hateful rants.

My husband is a man of extremes; it’s all or nothing. This extreme approach to life is applied to both work and our relationship. We are either blissfully happy and joined at the hip or he avoids me at all costs and we fight frequently. There is no balance in our lives, no normalcy, no in-between. 

Right now, we’re going through a phase where my husband doesn’t feel the need (or desire) to tell me anything about what is going on in his life. That’s right- HIS life. Not “ours”… *he kind of lives a separate life*. It’s not always that way… but every now and then, he gets stressed out, bored or frustrated and it seems like he pulls away from me and does what he wants to do for a while. That’s what is going on right now. My husband is working late 5 or 6 nights out of the week; frequently not coming home until 2 or 3 a.m. & sometimes even later. Of course, this is very stressful for me. We own a business and the business isn’t doing well. There is a lot of stuff that needs to be done to keep the business afloat.

We’ve talked about divorce several times in the past year, most recently just a few days ago. We ultimately decided that’s not what we want. 

However, after this most recent round of arguments, *I gave him an ultimatum: we divorce or we go to marriage counseling.* I was hoping that couples therapy or marriage counseling would help him see what he is doing to harm our marriage and teach us to “fight fair”. He agreed (reluctantly) to do 1 hour of therapy (nothing can be accomplished in one hour, I hope I can convince him to 1 hour a week). And, when I say he “agreed” to therapy…. he said he’d go, but that I wouldn’t like it and said: “You think you’re sad now? Just wait until you hear what I have to say. You’re not going to like it. You have no idea”, implying that I am crazy, off-my-rocker looney who behaves erratically. I responded with “Well, since you’re perfect, therapy should be a breeze for you, then!” 

I feel bad for bringing up divorce again and *I regret those words came out of my mouth*. Often. I don’t know if I could really follow through with it if it came down to it. I love him. Sometimes, I understand why he is angry with me but I wish he could control his anger and refrain from screaming, calling me names and saying horrible things about me. 

In addition to his explosive temper, *my husband is not very understanding or empathetic*. He tells me he doesn’t have time to listen to my problems or concerns. He doesn’t have the “luxury” of thinking about “feelings”. He tells me to “get over it” when he’s done something that bothers me. He spends hours in the bathroom each day (looking at pornography though he denies it), he doesn’t get up in the middle of the night to help out with our daughter. He sleeps in every morning and leaves me to take care of our daughter’s morning routine. Even if I’ve had little sleep the night before, if I ask him to pitch in in the mornings, he refuses and says he needs to sleep because he is the one who has to work all day. *He stays out late to work* but treats himself to drinks and sit-down meals at local restaurants before or after he works (meanwhile, I eat cereal for dinner or nothing at all). *He doesn’t make time to converse with me* because he says he doesn’t “want to have to recite the day’s events” to me and there is nothing that I need to know. He is polite to all other people throughout the day… *he has no patience for me*. He is abrupt on the phone and often says “Can’t talk right now” and just hangs up or quickly says “Gotta go. Love you, bye” and hangs up. *He tells me I am the most stressful thing in his life and that I am making him miserable. *

If I ask my husband to not work so late, he is rude. For example, one night last week, I BEGGED him not to leave. I explained I am not handling his long absences night after night very well, that we are not connecting and that I need him home. He got VERY angry with me, said “you aren’t making things easier for me”, “are you going to go do all the work I need to do?” “are you going to go make the money?”, then when I tried to retaliate, he called me the “**** cherry” on top of the “**** sundae” that is his life. He left angry. He has used the “**** sundae” analogy many times this week. He also e-mailed me several rude e-mails after yelling at me on the phone. In one e-mail, he said “shove your fist up your own ass”. 

In an attempt to get us back on course, I have pathetically attempted to lure him home with sex. We’ve had more sex in the past week than we have in a month. Last night, he came home early (11:45 p.m.) and was “too tired” to shower and have sex. When I asked him to come to bed around an hour later, he said he’d be right up… but then didn’t come to bed until 5:00 a.m. He said this morning that he was “worked up” and anxious about not being at the business doing work. I told him I was going to try to make him less anxious.. but that he didn’t come to bed with me so I couldn’t. I’m guessing he was looking at porn. A few nights ago, I was a little intoxicated and he was unable to finish. He essentially said it was a turnoff that I was drunk. That has never been a problem before. We have NEVER had any kind of an issue with him not being “into it” before. Granted, this is only once in 11 years… it’s freaking me out. FYI, the obvious thought did cross my mind… but I do not think he is cheating on me. We did talk about it and he was sincere when he said "I'm not putting my **** in anyone" (I know, how sweet, right?)

In sum, my husband and I each have issues (as everyone does). Our individual "issues" have been creating this pattern of chaos in our lives. I want to break the pattern!!! I will turn myself inside out to keep my marriage intact. 

I want to save my marriage. We fell hopelessly in love… but I don’t think our relationship has ever been healthy. I don’t know if it ever can be; but I desperately want it to be. I want my husband to love, honor, respect & cherish me. I want him to tell me I’m beautiful (and I am!) not just sexy. I want my husband to want to be with me. I want my husband never to yell at me again. I want to know that I am loved because I am shown love. I want to FEEL loved- all the time. I want my husband to kiss me (he never kisses me- nothing more than a peck)!!! Is there hope? By changing myself, can I show him that change is possible? Do verbally abusive men ever change before it’s too late?


----------



## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

If you are going to make ultimatums or issue red lines you have to be willing to enforce them. I let my wife know if she cusses at me again I am leaving. And I would.

Your marriage sounds rocky to me. I think you and your husband definitely need counseling. There is no reason that he should be speaking to you as brutally as he is, no matter what you say. 

I am curious how big a part alcohol plays in your life. Alcohol has the potential to be very damaging to relationships.

Why will your husband not attend counseling?

In short changing yourself may not end the chaos from your husband, but it may enable you to stand back and and asses how abusive your husband really is. Do not threaten divorce unless you are prepared to undertake such an action.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

lancaster said:


> If you are going to make ultimatums or issue red lines you have to be willing to enforce them. I let my wife know if she cusses at me again I am leaving. And I would.
> 
> Your marriage sounds rocky to me. I think you and your husband definitely need counseling. There is no reason that he should be speaking to you as brutally as he is, no matter what you say.
> 
> ...


I do not disagree with you; my marriage is VERY rocky. I realize I issued an ultimatum then stated I don't know if I could follow through. Somewhere inside, I know I allow too much misbehavior and I don't know what it will take for me to follow through. 

When I ask my husband to go to therapy, he tells me "the only thing wrong in this relationship is you" and that he is "too busy" or doesn't have time for therapy. He is too busy trying to make our business a success to attend to nonsense things like my feelings and emotions. He tells me to get over myself. He DID agree to therapy last week- only because he wants me to realize how "crazy" I am. 

Thank you for your response.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

lancaster said:


> I am curious how big a part alcohol plays in your life. Alcohol has the potential to be very damaging to relationships.


I hardly drink at all anymore. We used to be social drinkers and would go out together frequently up until I became pregnant. I can barely finish a glass of wine these days (makes me sleepy). However, with this new round of arguing (over my insecurity and trust issues, I guess), I drank a full bottle of bubbly one night last week when my husband was out all night and had 2 mixed drinks at a restaurant (with dinner) 3 nights later. 

I drank to calm my nerves because I have been having panic attacks. I recognized that as self-medicating and went to my GP right away. I was given Zoloft yesterday. Have only taken 2 pills and hate it- feel very sleepy and still anxious. 

My husband has been having frequent drinks, it seems, at local bars and restaurants as he is out working late. I have only learned of his frequent "tastings", as he doesn't tell me when he's going out. He rarely drinks to excess. He has a "finger" or two of whisky or scotch or bourbon or gin probably nightly. I wouldn't really know anymore, as he's not around.


----------



## Mrs Chai (Sep 14, 2010)

skinamarink said:


> I do not disagree with you; my marriage is VERY rocky. I realize I issued an ultimatum then stated I don't know if I could follow through. Somewhere inside, I know I allow too much misbehavior and I don't know what it will take for me to follow through.
> 
> When I ask my husband to go to therapy, he tells me "the only thing wrong in this relationship is you" and that he is "too busy" or doesn't have time for therapy. He is too busy trying to make our business a success to attend to nonsense things like my feelings and emotions. He tells me to get over myself. He DID agree to therapy last week- only because he wants me to realize how "crazy" I am.
> 
> Thank you for your response.



It's very good you got him to agree to do therapy but it sounds like just one session for one hour. What is going to happen when he goes, hears what he doesn't want to hear, and refuses to continue to go to counseling?

What is your plan then?


People can change, but they very rarely do. Because it's hard. The need to change must come from themselves (as much as we wish people would change for us, they need to want the change for themselves as well).

That being said, what are you going to do to change yourself?

What are you going to do when he doesn't support your changes - because they will be for the better for YOU and it sounds like everything is about him.


I would recommend giving this a read when you have a moment:

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for Those Affected by Infidelity


EDIT: I'm not sure if it's time for the full 180, but it's definitely got some good suggestions for you to look at right now.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Your husband could have another family entirely and you'd have no clue, based on how often you see him.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Can I Change Myself to End the Chaos?- NOW SHORTER*



Mrs Chai said:


> It's very good you got him to agree to do therapy but it sounds like just one session for one hour. What is going to happen when he goes, hears what he doesn't want to hear, and refuses to continue to go to counseling?
> 
> What is your plan then?


I haven't gotten that far yet. He has agreed to counseling 3 times in the past 2 years and when push comes to shove, he refuses to go on the grounds he is too busy and he has no problems; I am the only problem in our relationship. 




Mrs Chai said:


> That being said, what are you going to do to change yourself?


I am going to get out of the house! I have been figuratively held captive in my own home for the past 2 years (bed rest 5 months during pregnancy, "forced" to be stay at home mom after husband "fired" me from business- and we only have 1 car). I am going to deal with the depression I've been in for a long time- already going to counseling and trying different meds. I am going to exercise and start feeling better. I am going to try to be the "perfect" wife my husband wants. That way, he has nothing to complain about. I am going to cook and clean and coddle him and cater to his every sexual desire. If that doesn't change his attitude toward me, I don't think anything will. 



Mrs Chai said:


> I would recommend giving this a read when you have a moment:
> 
> SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for Those Affected by Infidelity
> 
> EDIT: I'm not sure if it's time for the full 180, but it's definitely got some good suggestions for you to look at right now.


Thanks, I took a look at it. Sounds like a good way to start moving forward with making myself a more independent person. I hope my husband starts acting like a husband soon.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Your husband could have another family entirely and you'd have no clue, based on how often you see him.


I guess it certainly appears that way, yes. His time away from home has only increased in the past 6 weeks. Before that, we were together every night, being couch potatoes and totally bored with one another to the point of apathy. The past 6 weeks, he has been trying to make our business work. We're in a lot of debt. Just got our tax return back and it's not good at all. I think he's just dealing with the stress in a different way... and not including me in what is going on. That doesn't mean he should feel entitled to dine out, go to bars, make friends with waitresses, etc. But, he does. It makes me nervous and uneasy but I don't think he would do anything to risk losing his daughter. If he cheats and throws away our marriage... he'd lose us. I really don't think he wants that. I think he is playing with fire by behaving the way he has been behaving but I also think he is clueless as to how bad it looks. Or maybe he doesn't care because he knows I won't leave.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

skinamarink said:


> maybe he doesn't care because he knows I won't leave.


ding ding ding


----------



## Mrs Chai (Sep 14, 2010)

*Re: Can I Change Myself to End the Chaos?- NOW SHORTER*



skinamarink said:


> I haven't gotten that far yet. He has agreed to counseling 3 times in the past 2 years and when push comes to shove, he refuses to go on the grounds he is too busy and he has no problems; I am the only problem in our relationship.


You have no set boundaries for this man. He has no consequences. There is no respect, on multiple fronts here, none for your needs, your kids, or your marriage.

So how can we implement these boundaries for him? You can start with the counseling. What is his consequence, THIS TIME, for not going to counseling? We are going to plan now based on his actions from before, that he will do the same (because why wouldn't he at this point? He's gotten away with it with you THREE TIMES already). _The difference is, you are changing_. And you are going to start by not letting him be disrespectful and *make time for counseling*.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Also, being his sex slave isn't going to get you anywhere. Talk about rewarding him for bad behaviour!! What man in his right mind is going to change when he gets everything he desires and then some?? I am not advocating that you cut him off, but just stop with the "I am going to cook and clean and coddle him and cater to his every sexual desire." Seriously.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Also, being his sex slave isn't going to get you anywhere. Talk about rewarding him for bad behaviour!! What man in his right mind is going to change when he gets everything he desires and then some?? I am not advocating that you cut him off, but just stop with the "I am going to cook and clean and coddle him and cater to his every sexual desire." Seriously.


Yeah, I guess it does make me sound pretty sick in the head to say that, doesn't it? Just goes to show I am desperate, _*truly *_desperate, to get my marriage to work. I'm sick about it.


----------



## Baablacksheep (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm a man [no really] and maybe I can see what he's feeling. Could he be feeling like a failure because of the business problems? We men take the provider role seriously. And if he's staring bankruptcy in the face that has to be discouraging[BTDT]. Why were you "fired" from the business ? One of my thoughts was to offer to help at the business ? I know I felt resentment at my stay at home wife for 'just spending my hard earned money'.

My .02 is he's feeling a lot of pressure from the struggles of the business, your feeling pressured from his withdrawing from you. And both of you are driving the other away. [BTDT too] 

Maybe instead of ultimatums and conditions would getting him to open up relieve that pressure he's feeling ? I'm just a stranger on the internet but I'm gonna offer a prayer for you and your husband if that's OK ? I'm rooting for you two to face your battles in a way that draws you 2 together not driving you apart.


----------



## jane1213 (Aug 10, 2012)

I think from his side it is totally a different story. How long have you been stay at home wife/mom ? Have you worked before and contributed financially to the household? 

He apparently does not enjoy spending time with you . I am wondering why do you eat cereal for dinner ? Why not cook a good meal and enjoy it ? If he is eating out so be it . You don't need this victim mentality. Also, why do you expect him to help with the kid morning routine? If he works late at night ,I think this is unreasonable.

He is emotionally abusive to you. I am pretty much sure his abuse is affecting your self esteem. So he thinks YOU are to blame for all the problems in your marriage. You seem to have internalized his messages and you are coming her to fix YOU. I think you should do the 180 . Focus on your daughter , get a job, socialise with friends , work on your business... keep yourself busy. Don't argue for a while. Let things calm down.

I just read your other thread. I know how it must feel with anxiety/panic attacks. Don't drive yourself crazy over this. I really think you should get in IC for yourself . Just to learn techniques to calm down your emotions. You can read books on this. You can't blame your anxiety and overreaction on your "stupidity". You were emotional. You overreacted.

Don't overreact. Distance yourself emotionally from him. I am not saying hate him but you need some emotional distance. You need to protect yourself. When you distance yourself from him and get busy, things will calm down. You need months of no arguing if you want him back. You will attract him with calmness and not sex. 


Sorry to hear your going through this.


----------



## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

I feel for you. 

It sounds like your marriage has gone down a very negative spiral of disrespect for one another in terms of actions and words. This situation can be hard to reverse.

This is going to be an unpopular opinion here, but if you have failing business, going to a therapist is going to add stress to your husband because going to see a therapist on an ongoing basis is expensive. If you start going out more, you could also add stress to your marriage by starting to spend more money on coffees with friends, etc. This doesn't seem like something you can afford right now.

I would concentrate on doing things that you make you feel good that don't cost very much money.

Next, I would think about ways I can help contribute financially. Can you start a home business? Or, find a job, and send your kids to daycare? If you start contributing financially to the household income, you will not only reduce your husband's stress about money, but you will start to feel better about yourself and become less needy, which would in turn relieve more of his stress.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Baablacksheep said:


> Could he be feeling like a failure because of the business problems? We men take the provider role seriously. And if he's staring bankruptcy in the face that has to be discouraging[BTDT]. Why were you "fired" from the business ? One of my thoughts was to offer to help at the business ? I know I felt resentment at my stay at home wife for 'just spending my hard earned money'.


We opened the business as a couple; as a team. I was "fired" from the business because I was the naysayer; the "Debbie Downer", always reminding him that we couldn't afford what he was wanting/ trying to do. I tried to be a voice of reason and he chose to ignore me. He spent recklessly and now we are in a tough position.



Baablacksheep said:


> My .02 is he's feeling a lot of pressure from the struggles of the business, your feeling pressured from his withdrawing from you. And both of you are driving the other away. [BTDT too]


Yes, exactly. I want so much to be included in the business. I am, after all, the one with 3 degrees (one in business); he has none. I think he feels emasculated when I try to tell him the "proper" way to do something (i.e. paying bills on time) and this led to tension in the business. I have learned to keep my mouth shut but this has led to lots of past due accounts and no business plan, which is not a good place to be. 



Baablacksheep said:


> Maybe instead of ultimatums and conditions would getting him to open up relieve that pressure he's feeling ? I'm just a stranger on the internet but I'm gonna offer a prayer for you and your husband if that's OK ? I'm rooting for you two to face your battles in a way that draws you 2 together not driving you apart.


Yes, Thank you. We had a good night tonight talking. I finally got him to come home. I think he is feeling tremendous pressure and is too proud to admit he needs my help. I am the organizer of the the family... and he needs me but has been refusing my help. I am going to work with him the next few weeks to help him get caught up and am so grateful he is willing to accept my help. I will finally feel useful. Thank you so much for your thoughtful response.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

jane1213 said:


> I think from his side it is totally a different story. How long have you been stay at home wife/mom ? Have you worked before and contributed financially to the household?


I was the sole breadwinner for the first year or so of our marriage. The house was in my name only and I worked hard for what I earned. He was fired in 2008 for noncompliance and from 2008-2010, my salary is what funded the business. I was taking out paycheck advances twice a month just to get by, as he wasn't earning any revenue. 

We "expanded" and relocated "his" business in 2011, which by that time became OUR business because I had been laid off from my position. I took part in special training to be able to perform tasks specifically related to our new business venture. I was "ousted" from my position as co-owner when I was put on bed rest for complications during my pregnancy in 2012. I was asked not to return to the business because, to be honest, my husband prefers not to have to answer to me (or anyone) regarding (poor) financial decisions. 



jane1213 said:


> He apparently does not enjoy spending time with you . I am wondering why do you eat cereal for dinner ? Why not cook a good meal and enjoy it ? If he is eating out so be it . You don't need this victim mentality. Also, why do you expect him to help with the kid morning routine? If he works late at night ,I think this is unreasonable.


No, my husband apparently does not enjoy being with me, you are correct. He has Tourette's and ADHD. I don't know to what degree that influences his adulthood but I have a sneaking suspicion it does more than he will admit. I am attractive. I am intelligent. I am a good wife and mother. I work a part time job (get this: as a THERAPIST!). I don't know what else to say. I don't much feel like preparing a meal for myself in the evenings when home alone. I expect him to help with the "kid morning routine" because we chose to have a child together. At the time, we were both involved full-time with the business. It was NEVER discussed that I would be a stay-at-home-mom. That was the ONLY thing I specified I NEVER wanted to do. We agreed I would be at the business after the baby was born. He finds it easier when I am not there to remind him to keep within a budget. The SAHM thing is NOT by choice. I am a worker-bee. It's what I do best. I'm going crazy not being "allowed" to help when I know I could make a difference. 

Thank you for your thoughts and your time.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Can I Change Myself to End the Chaos?- NOW SHORTER*



Mrs Chai said:


> You have no set boundaries for this man. He has no consequences. There is no respect, on multiple fronts here, none for your needs, your kids, or your marriage.


I do not disagree.



Mrs Chai said:


> So how can we implement these boundaries for him? You can start with the counseling. What is his consequence, THIS TIME, for not going to counseling? We are going to plan now based on his actions from before, that he will do the same (because why wouldn't he at this point? He's gotten away with it with you THREE TIMES already). _The difference is, you are changing_. And you are going to start by not letting him be disrespectful and *make time for counseling*.


I have been scouring the internet for MALE in-network providers within an 1-mile radius. My husband has stated that he will not see anyone that is not within 1 mile of the business (for he is far too busy to travel further) and I know he is a bit of a chauvinist and will not respond to a female therapist. What is the consequence? I don't know. I will schedule an appointment every week until he commits. I will not back down. We need help!


----------



## lovelorn_wife (May 10, 2014)

It was a struggle to convince my husband to see a therapist. He finally went after I told him if he didn't like it he didn't have to go. He has bipolar and would refuse to take any medication for it saying meds dumb him down. He used to be verbally abuse (not all the time but on "down" days). He is regularly seeing a therapist and taking his medication and he says he feels a lot better. We are now working on our relationship which had gone downhill. Lack of communication is our big issue and my tendency to over analyze/micro manage everything. I am working hard to change the negative aspects in my life.

I truly wish the best for you and your husband


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

loveadvice said:


> I feel for you.
> 
> It sounds like your marriage has gone down a very negative spiral of disrespect for one another in terms of actions and words. This situation can be hard to reverse.
> 
> ...


I do not disagree with anything you have said. However, I am not needy. I am educated and employed. My husband will not "allow" me to go to my JOB on a frequent basis. Granted, it is a part time position, I get $25/ hour as a bedside therapist in a hospital. I am allotted 10 hours a week as per the grant specifications I was awarded.. and my husband is frequently PREVENTING me from going to work because the needs of the business are greater than mine. I have an MA and I am wasting it. 

We also have a warehouse location, where we do strictly online sales. This facility and the LLC is in my name only. My husband refuses to "allow" me to conduct business at this facility, as I "do not have the aptitude" to do so. He ran the operations on his own during the winter months and now is doing nothing with the space because he is preoccupied with the brick and mortar business. I have been working on ways to get the online portion of our business up and running but that has been next to impossible, since my husband has bankrupted every aspect of our businesses. Bank accounts are overdrawn for months, our Paypal account is overdrawn, we have no operating capital and we're behind on rent. 

I'm trying to think of ways to get us caught up... but that is difficult to do when he has ruined our credit and I can't get financing for our business. He is also subconsciously sabotaging my part-time job by telling me weekly that I "can't go in" because he is too busy to care for our child. And, NO, we cannot afford childcare. 

Additionally, I am seeing a therapist who offers a sliding scale and has allowed me to pay $25/ session, which comes out of my (measly) paycheck.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Baablacksheep said:


> One of my thoughts was to offer to help at the business ? I know I felt resentment at my stay at home wife for 'just spending my hard earned money'.


I have to address this. I _have_ offered help. My husband is a control-freak. There is no other way to put it. He specifies how I should fold a paper bag, it is that bad. I don't "just spend" his hard-earned money. On the contrary, it is HE who was spending my hard-earned money for 2 years as he got the business up and running. Then, I was laid off from my position after 6 years, we relocated and expanded our business. I was 100% part of the planning &, implementation of the business. 

I don't get any kind of "allowance", therefore I am NOT spending his "hard-earned money". I have had to go 3+ weeks without groceries. I get no clothing budget- my mother in law has been giving me her old hand-me-downs so I can look semi-professional at my part-time job. I don't get my nails done like many women. I had my hair cut and styled a week ago for the first time in 9 months. I buy undergarments once a year if that. I have fewer than 6 pairs of shoes (and that includes my snow boots!). I am NOT frivolous with money.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

I just can't seem to win. After making love, I told my husband something I thought was sweet (that we used to say often): "I want you and only you; always." He told me "Insecurity isn't sexy." He refused to say it back to me. We ended up getting in a fight over it. How hard is it to repeat something back that you mean? It shouldn't be. Yet, he refused. Instead, when I asked him to please say it back to me, he said "Are you serious?! You ****ing idiot!! We just had sex and I'm trying to sleep! What the **** is wrong with you? Shut the **** up- just SHUT the **** UP!"

I am now sleeping on the sofa.


----------



## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

skinamarink said:


> I just can't seem to win. After making love, I told my husband something I thought was sweet (that we used to say often): "I want you and only you; always." He told me "Insecurity isn't sexy." He refused to say it back to me. We ended up getting in a fight over it. How hard is it to repeat something back that you mean? It shouldn't be. Yet, he refused. Instead, when I asked him to please say it back to me, he said "Are you serious?! You ****ing idiot!! We just had sex and I'm trying to sleep! What the **** is wrong with you? Shut the **** up- just SHUT the **** UP!"
> 
> I am now sleeping on the sofa.


OMG...that's awful! 

I think his disrespectful attitude is really bad.

However, I do agree with him that you shouldn't ask him to say your sweet words to him back because to him it may seem controlling. Also, I think it would be better if you just said the sweet words to him just because you feel them and don't have an expectation of reciprocation. It's more natural when you do that. I say I love you to my boyfriend and tell him how handsome he is all the time. However, I say them and don't expect him to reciproate. Most of the time, he does. If he doesn't, I don't care. 

However, there is no excuse for his outburst and swearing.

BTW, when I said that you are needy in my prior post, I meant emotional neediness. This incident illustrates how you need him to say your words back to you because you are insecure about the relationship. I don't need my boyfriend to tell me that he loves me back when I tell him that I love him because I'm confident about his feelings for me. I understand that you are not confident about his feelings for you, and that's why you are sensitive to his non-reciprocation. However, it is true that neediness is not sexy. Try to hold your need for him to reassure you and concentrate on gaining confidence in yourself.


----------



## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

skinamarink said:


> I do not disagree with anything you have said. However, I am not needy. I am educated and employed. My husband will not "allow" me to go to my JOB on a frequent basis. Granted, it is a part time position, I get $25/ hour as a bedside therapist in a hospital. I am allotted 10 hours a week as per the grant specifications I was awarded.. and my husband is frequently PREVENTING me from going to work because the needs of the business are greater than mine. I have an MA and I am wasting it.
> 
> We also have a warehouse location, where we do strictly online sales. This facility and the LLC is in my name only. My husband refuses to "allow" me to conduct business at this facility, as I "do not have the aptitude" to do so. He ran the operations on his own during the winter months and now is doing nothing with the space because he is preoccupied with the brick and mortar business. I have been working on ways to get the online portion of our business up and running but that has been next to impossible, since my husband has bankrupted every aspect of our businesses. Bank accounts are overdrawn for months, our Paypal account is overdrawn, we have no operating capital and we're behind on rent.
> 
> ...


Here's another probably unpopular opinion on this board: I don't think a therapist is a good way to go in your situation. Of course, if you had lots of extra savings to spend on it, and want to go, then you should go. However, $25 a session is equal to your $25 a hour job. I wouldn't spend 100% of my income on therapy. In fact, I don't find going to therapy any more helpful than talking with friends and/or googling my issue online and finding what others in similar situations have to say about it, and/or asking for help on advice boards such as this one. At least you would get more than one person's opinion on your issue. 

If I were in your situation, with a failing business and a looming divorce situation, I would find a way to make sure that I have an income source to fall back on in case of divorce, and I would spend the $25 I make an hour, paying a sitter to come to my home for two hours to watch my kids while I build my career back up again. I wouldn't spend it on going to a therapist.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Every day you choose to remain married to someone that treats you like sh!t and makes it clear they have disdain for you is on you. Heck, the fact that you're still there having sex with him despite the way he treats you probably makes you look needy and unattractive in his eyes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

It sounds like all he felt when you told him you loved him after sex was disdain. That's a terrible sign of how he's feeling towards you.

Why does he have so little respect for you? Is it because you keep trying to 'save him' while your own house is falling down around you (you're on antidepressants and won't even look after yourself)? You're trying to save a business for a man that shouldn't even own a business because he just not smart enough to make it work, plain and simple. You won't stand up for yourself, you chase him around like a puppy dog, you tell him how much you love him after he's said things like, 'shove your fist up your own ass', you offer him sex constantly when he couldn't give a rats about you. 

He doesn't want you to save him. Let it go bankrupt. Just let it happen. Nothing you can do will make him good at owning a business, let it fail. Life goes on after failure. You live and you learn and I think he needs to learn that he's not cut out to run a business.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

My last post was probably a bit harsh, but this husband of yours needs a clip around the ears. So in light of your original question, what can YOU do to change yourself? Well, think back on how you were when you and he met and fell in love. You mention you had a job, had your own house etc. You sound like you were motivated, independent, interesting, in love with life and trying to get the most out of it. I bet he felt lucky to get your attention, and you knew that if he didn't pan out that you'd move on and it wouldn't be the end of your life, just a bump in the road. What a catch! Compare how you were then with how you are now. Desperate, dependent (and having a child can force this upon you and I really feel for you that he's not making you feel safe and secure while you are looking after your child), needy, boring, depressing. 

What can you change? Your outlook. You won't shrivel up and die if this man leaves. You were a strong woman, an independent woman, and all that is still there inside you. You need to look after you and your child. He can look after himself since he's chosen to separate himself from your family. You don't need him.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

skinamarink said:


> We've been together 11 years and married 9 years; *none of which have been easy*.... we've been stuck in a cycle.


Skinny, an important issue is whether his explosive rages are a temporary problem arising from his struggles to save your family business or, rather, from a lifetime condition that was in place before you started dating him. The latter seems to be suggested by your comment that this unhealthy cycle has been going on for 9 or 11 years.



skinamarink said:


> For the past 8 or 9 months, we've been "so in love" and now he's telling me I make him miserable. This happens on and off and has been cycling for 10+ years. Can a verbally abusive spouse change? [From your other thread.]


Skinny, the two most common causes of mood changes are a hormone change (e.g., puberty) and drug abuse. Because you apparently have ruled those changes out, I note that the two remaining common causes of emotional instability are bipolar and BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). The lack of obvious mania does not rule out bipolar because, with bipolar-2, the mania phase can be subtle and not pronounced. 

Yet, if I had to guess, I would say the temper tantrums and severe verbal abuse you describe are much closer to the warning signs for BPD than those for bipolar. For example, whereas bipolar mood changes are caused by changes in body chemistry and thus often appear in a regular cycle, BPD mood flips are not caused by body chemistry changes. Instead, they are *triggered by events*, e.g., a minor thing you say or do that triggers a sudden release of anger he's been carrying since early childhood. Hence, when a man has moderate to strong BPD traits, his temper tantrums should be somewhat irregular and unpredictable because they are event triggered. 

That is, you don't have to do a thing to CREATE his anger. Because a BPDer has been carrying it since early childhood, you only have to do or say some minor thing that TRIGGERS a sudden release of anger that is always there deep inside. If you're interested, I describe the differences I've seen between the typical behaviors of bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and BPDers (e.g., my exW) in my post at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences. 



> He has Tourette's and *ADHD*.... I have a sneaking suspicion it does more than he will admit.


Your suspicions about his "adult ADHD" diagnosis may be warranted, Skinny. It is common for BPD to be mistaken for adult ADHD because they share some similar clinical features -- e.g., impulsivity, emotional dysregulation, and cognitive impairment. Indeed, some researchers have suggested that adult ADHD and BPD may even be two aspects of the very same disorder (see, e.g., Adult ADHD).

ADHD in _childhood_ has been reported to be highly associated with the diagnosis of BPD in _adulthood _and adult ADHD often co-occurs with BPD. One of the dilemmas with treating someone having both BPD and ADHD is that ADHD medications can actually make the BPD symptoms worse.

In this regard, Psychiatrist Robert Friedel says _"It is not uncommon for... adults with borderline disorder who have some symptoms of ADHD to be misdiagnosed with only ADHD."_ He notes that ADHD occurs in at least 25% of people with BPD -- 5 times more often than it does in the general population. He also say that, when BPD and ADHD co-occur, _"...patients often do worse when treated for ADHD if they first receive a medication for the symptoms of ADHD."_ See Adult ADHD -- Friedel.

Another problem, if your H suffers from both of these disorders, is that therapists routinely withhold the BPD diagnosis and mention only the ADHD diagnosis to the client. Generally, therapists are loath to tell a BPDer client -- much less tell his wife -- the name of his disorder. Instead, they will list the diagnosis as including only the co-occurring "clinical disorders" such as ADHD, bipolar, GAD, PTSD, or anxiety. Therapists often withhold this information from the client (and her insurance company) in order to protect the client -- for several reasons I've discussed in my post at Loath to Diagnose. 

Hence, when BPD is a strong possibility, your best chance of finding out about it is not to ask your H's therapist but, rather, to see your own psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion. Significantly, your H's therapist is _not your friend_. It therefore is prudent to see a professional who is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not his.



> I’m sort of *walking on eggshells*, fearful that anything I say or do will anger my husband and spiral out of control into another one of his hateful rants.


That is exactly how you would be feeling if you've been living with a BPDer (i.e., person with strong traits) for 11 years. This is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called *Stop Walking on Eggshells*.



> My husband is a man of extremes; it’s all or nothing.


This behavior is called "black-white thinking" (aka "splitting") and is one of the classic warning signs for having strong BPD traits (or NPD traits as well). Because a BPDer's emotional development likely stopped at age four, he never learned how to integrate the good and bad aspects of his own personality. That is, he never reached the point of realizing he is an essentially good boy even though he occasionally does bad things. 

BPDers therefore are very intolerant -- throughout their adult lives -- of ambiguities, uncertainties, dualities, strong mixed feelings, and all the other grey areas of interpersonal relationships. The result is that a BPDer will categorize everyone (including himself) as "all good" (i.e., with me) or "all bad" (i.e., against me). And he will recategorize someone -- in just ten seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other, based solely on a minor comment or infraction. 



> This extreme approach to life is applied to both work and our relationship.


Perhaps so. Yet, if your H actually does exhibit strong BPD traits, you should be noticing that his "approach to life" is very different (between work and your relationship) in one important respect. Namely, he rarely will exhibit the rages and loss of control in front of his business colleagues, casual friends, customers, or strangers. 

The reason is that NONE of those people pose a threat to his two fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship to be abandoned and no intimacy to cause a suffocating feeling of being controlled and engulfed. This is why high functioning BPDers can be generous and caring all day long to total strangers and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love them.



> We are either blissfully happy and joined at the hip or he avoids me at all costs and we fight frequently. There is no balance in our lives, no normalcy, no in-between.


This is another example of B-W thinking. It will be evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "you NEVER..." and "you ALWAYS...." It also will be evident in rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you, or even hating you). BPDers are able to make these flips in just ten seconds because, when they are experiencing strong mixed feelings (e.g., love and hate), they instantly put the conflicting feeling completely out of reach of their conscious minds. This is why a man who deeply loves you is capable, in less than a minute, of cursing you and hating you. Although the love is still there, it is out of reach of his conscious mind.



> Every now and then, he gets stressed out, bored or frustrated and it seems like he pulls away from me and does what he wants to do for a while. That’s what is going on right now.


One of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship is a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back. If your H is a BPDer, this cycle will occur because his two fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at opposite ends of the VERY SAME spectrum. Hence, as you back away from him to avoid triggering his engulfment fear, you necessarily are drawing closer to triggering his abandonment fear. If you are interested, I discuss this source of a BPDer's instability in greater detail at the Maybe's Thread link I provide below.



> My husband is not very understanding or empathetic.


Generally, BPDers tend to be very empathetic while they are splitting you white but have no empathy whatsoever while splitting you black. Hence, if your H has strong BPD traits, he likely can turn his empathy on or off like a switch, depending on how he is feeling at the moment. (If he totally lacks affective empathy at all times, you would be describing a red flag for narcissism or sociopathy, not BPD.)



> He tells me I am the most stressful thing in his life and that I am making him miserable.


Being emotionally stunted, a BPDer has a fragile, fractured sense of who he really is. To the extent he has any lasting, firm self concept, it is the false self image of always being "The Victim." Because it is the closest thing to a self image that the BPDer has, he will hold onto it with a death grip. He therefore will seek frequent validation that it is true. This is accomplished, while he's splitting you white, by regarding you as his Rescuer. 

As long as you are "rescuing" him, he is convinced he must be a victim or you wouldn't be working so hard to save him. While splitting you black, however, he will perceive you to be "The Perpetrator," i.e., the bane of his existence and the source of all his unhappiness. In this way, he is able to sustain the fiction of being "The Victim," which implies he is "all good" rather than "all bad."



> I gave him an ultimatum: we divorce or we go to marriage counseling.


If your H has strong BPD traits, MC likely will be a total waste of time until he has had several years of IC. The reason is that a BPDer's issues are far more serious than a simple lack of communication skills (which MCs are very good at teaching). Another reason is that an untreated BPDer almost certainly will use MC sessions as a stage on which to play out his role of being "The Victim." I therefore suggest you read about BPD warning signs to see if most sound very familiar. 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult has all the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits these traits. Of course he does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits these traits at such a strong and persistent level that they are distorting his perceptions of your intentions. Not having met him, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are able to spot any red flags that are occurring in a man you've been living with for 11 years.

Of course, you won't be able to diagnose your H's issues. Only a professional can do that. You nonetheless are capable of learning to spot the BPD warning signs because there is nothing subtle about behavior such as strong verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and always being "The Victim."

An easy place to start reading about them is my list of BPD red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of these signs ring a bell, I suggest you also read the more detailed description of them in my post at Maybe's Thread. If that description sounds very familiar, I would suggest you see a psychologist (not a MC) -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

loveadvice said:


> I do agree with him that you shouldn't ask him to say your sweet words to him back because to him it may seem controlling.


It used to be that one of us would say something sweet and the other would repeat it. That was our thing. It was our way of connecting. We used to do this all of the time. He'd say "You are my one and only" and I'd repeat it. I didn't realize we'd gotten to the point where he wouldn't say it back. I guess I need to learn to express what I am feeling and not have the expectation of reciprocation, like you said. Thank you. 



loveadvice said:


> BTW, when I said that you are needy in my prior post, I meant emotional neediness. This incident illustrates how you need him to say your words back to you because you are insecure about the relationship.


True. I am emotionally needy and I don't know how to overcome that. I don't know if I have always been emotionally needy or if it is a product of my marriage.. or the circumstances of the past few years. I sometimes feel as if my husband has intentionally isolated me from the world; like he wants to hide me away from the world in shame. First, I was told I was not welcome in our business (because he can't stand to be around me, I guess), and now I'm stuck at home all the time. With only one car, I am stuck at home 95% of the time. I have to justify reasons for wanting to use the car and they have to be good enough reasons for him to "allow" me to use the car. If I ask for the car, he often becomes argumentative about it, telling me all of the reasons I _don't_ need the car. (i.e. "You don't need to run errands today and drag our daughter all over the place. She doesn't need to be in the car all day.") With all of the horrible things he often says to me (and about me), I have found it quite difficult to not start to believe them. He is eroding my self-esteem. Most healthy, confident (normal) women would walk away from a man who treats them as my husband treats me. Because I naively (stupidly?) stick around, hoping I can somehow fix this man I love... I guess that makes me emotionally needy.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Every day you choose to remain married to someone that treats you like sh!t and makes it clear they have disdain for you is on you. Heck, the fact that you're still there having sex with him despite the way he treats you probably makes you look needy and unattractive in his eyes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Thank you for your response. I have nothing to say to refute what you have said. Not easy to hear.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

breeze said:


> It sounds like all he felt when you told him you loved him after sex was disdain. That's a terrible sign of how he's feeling towards you.


Yes. It felt pretty terrible, too. 



breeze said:


> Why does he have so little respect for you? Is it because you keep trying to 'save him' while your own house is falling down around you (you're on antidepressants and won't even look after yourself)?


I guess that is the million dollar question. I guess he doesn't respect me because I never taught him that he had to. Yes, I keep trying to save HIM and our marriage... but never myself. The antidepressants- yeah, that's not going to last. 3 days in and I feel like I'm in a fog. I'd rather feel "mostly" normal and have my panic attacks than feel in a fog. Can't refute the "won't even look after yourself" bit. I don't even want to eat. 



breeze said:


> You're trying to save a business for a man that shouldn't even own a business because he just not smart enough to make it work, plain and simple. You won't stand up for yourself, you chase him around like a puppy dog, you tell him how much you love him after he's said things like, 'shove your fist up your own ass', you offer him sex constantly when he couldn't give a rats about you.
> 
> He doesn't want you to save him. Let it go bankrupt. Just let it happen. Nothing you can do will make him good at owning a business, let it fail. Life goes on after failure. You live and you learn and I think he needs to learn that he's not cut out to run a business.


Thank you.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

lovelorn_wife said:


> It was a struggle to convince my husband to see a therapist. He finally went after I told him if he didn't like it he didn't have to go. He has bipolar and would refuse to take any medication for it saying meds dumb him down. He used to be verbally abuse (not all the time but on "down" days). He is regularly seeing a therapist and taking his medication and he says he feels a lot better. We are now working on our relationship which had gone downhill. Lack of communication is our big issue and my tendency to over analyze/micro manage everything. I am working hard to change the negative aspects in my life.
> 
> I truly wish the best for you and your husband


Thank you. I, too, analyze and micro manage everything, which doesn't make things easier. Best of luck to you and your husband as well.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

breeze said:


> My last post was probably a bit harsh, but this husband of yours needs a clip around the ears. So in light of your original question, what can YOU do to change yourself? Well, think back on how you were when you and he met and fell in love. You mention you had a job, had your own house etc. You sound like you were motivated, independent, interesting, in love with life and trying to get the most out of it. I bet he felt lucky to get your attention, and you knew that if he didn't pan out that you'd move on and it wouldn't be the end of your life, just a bump in the road. What a catch! Compare how you were then with how you are now. Desperate, dependent (and having a child can force this upon you and I really feel for you that he's not making you feel safe and secure while you are looking after your child), needy, boring, depressing.
> 
> What can you change? Your outlook. You won't shrivel up and die if this man leaves. You were a strong woman, an independent woman, and all that is still there inside you. You need to look after you and your child. He can look after himself since he's chosen to separate himself from your family. You don't need him.


I _was_ in love with life. Thank you for reminding me. I used to be so excited for each new day that I would literally be tingling with anticipation. I was bold, determined and thoughtful. I mattered. I thought I was going to make a mark on the world. I can't even say that I'm a shadow of my former self. My former self has been completely obliterated. All I know of myself today is what my husband tells me; that I am selfish, incompetent, a hinderance, a burden. 

Yeah, I think I am having some issues with depression. Yes, I am boring. I guess depressed people tend to not be so engaging and exciting. Yes, I am needy. My husband's absence on a 24/7 basis for the past 6 weeks or so has exacerbated my anxiety... which led to some bickering... which led to him pulling away even more.. and so on. That is not to excuse his horrible rants....but I can see how the whole situation unfolded. It's not just him; I do play a part as well. That's why I started the thread and asked how I can improve myself... so I essentially remove myself as part of the problem. If I am "perfect" in my husband's eyes, then he has nothing to complain about. (No, I'm no SO low on self-esteem that I think I really need to be perfect to please my husband. I am being pseudo-sarcastic.) I know I need to work on myself for me.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I hope your husband goes to therapy with you the first time and then decides to continue as I think this is probably the best thing you could do. he doesn't listen to you, he is distant and angry. If he refuses to go beyond the one session you need to look at keeping your word about getting out of this marriage. I know it is not easy to raise a child alone. I was a single mom with 2 little ones, it is possible. I think too many women stay in unhappy marriage for the sake of the child and/or security....this is no way to live. Think what is best for you.


----------



## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

skinamarink said:


> It used to be that one of us would say something sweet and the other would repeat it. That was our thing. It was our way of connecting. We used to do this all of the time. He'd say "You are my one and only" and I'd repeat it. I didn't realize we'd gotten to the point where he wouldn't say it back. I guess I need to learn to express what I am feeling and not have the expectation of reciprocation, like you said. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> True. I am emotionally needy and I don't know how to overcome that. I don't know if I have always been emotionally needy or if it is a product of my marriage.. or the circumstances of the past few years. I sometimes feel as if my husband has intentionally isolated me from the world; like he wants to hide me away from the world in shame. First, I was told I was not welcome in our business (because he can't stand to be around me, I guess), and now I'm stuck at home all the time. With only one car, I am stuck at home 95% of the time. I have to justify reasons for wanting to use the car and they have to be good enough reasons for him to "allow" me to use the car. If I ask for the car, he often becomes argumentative about it, telling me all of the reasons I _don't_ need the car. (i.e. "You don't need to run errands today and drag our daughter all over the place. She doesn't need to be in the car all day.") With all of the horrible things he often says to me (and about me), I have found it quite difficult to not start to believe them. He is eroding my self-esteem. Most healthy, confident (normal) women would walk away from a man who treats them as my husband treats me. Because I naively (stupidly?) stick around, hoping I can somehow fix this man I love... I guess that makes me emotionally needy.


I'm sorry to hear about your situation.

I was there in your place in a similar situation when I was married. 

In my opinion, even though you don't want your world to turn upside down if you divorce, and you worry about your little one, I think it would be best for your DAUGHTER's self-esteem and your well-being if you leave this marriage.

I would advocate staying in your marriage if your husband seems to be a man of good character, but he swears at you and doesn't seem to think about what's good for the both of you, just about what's good for himself. 

You are still young, and have an education and you can start over again, and build yourself back up, and be a good role model for your daughter because at least she will see that Mom isn't being sworn at and lacking self-esteem and acting helpless. That's what I did. It may seem overwhelming, but you can do it. You need to do it for your daughter and for yourself. 

After I divorced, I found a wonderful man to spend the rest of my life with. He is a man of good character. I also have a flourishing law practice, and two great kids who have adjusted wonderfully to the divorce because I left their father when they were very young and they don't know a different way of life than the one I lead now. 

If I were you, I would leave your husband now while you are still young and your daughter is still young so that there is a lesser possibility of messing up your daughter's psyche. I'm sorry that you chose the wrong man to marry.


----------



## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

skinamarink said:


> I _was_ in love with life. Thank you for reminding me. I used to be so excited for each new day that I would literally be tingling with anticipation. I was bold, determined and thoughtful. I mattered. I thought I was going to make a mark on the world. I can't even say that I'm a shadow of my former self. My former self has been completely obliterated. All I know of myself today is what my husband tells me; that I am selfish, incompetent, a hinderance, a burden.
> 
> Yeah, I think I am having some issues with depression. Yes, I am boring. I guess depressed people tend to not be so engaging and exciting. Yes, I am needy. My husband's absence on a 24/7 basis for the past 6 weeks or so has exacerbated my anxiety... which led to some bickering... which led to him pulling away even more.. and so on. That is not to excuse his horrible rants....but I can see how the whole situation unfolded. It's not just him; I do play a part as well. That's why I started the thread and asked how I can improve myself... so I essentially remove myself as part of the problem. If I am "perfect" in my husband's eyes, then he has nothing to complain about. (No, I'm no SO low on self-esteem that I think I really need to be perfect to please my husband. I am being pseudo-sarcastic.) I know I need to work on myself for me.



You are not boring to someone who will love you the way you are.

I thought I was boring. My boyfriend finds me fascinating. I find him fascinating too.

Accept yourself for who you are. 

You don't need to change, except if you are insulting or doing something wrong to your husband. But, you don't need to work on being a different person, or becoming exciting.

You need to leave this man, and go stay with your parents for a while. 

In the meantime, go find yourself a FULL-TIME job and put your daughter in daycare. Find some way to get to work, perhaps through public transportation. Once you file divorce, your husband will need to pay for half of daycare and will need to support your daughter financially.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

I know I am bringing up an old topic that I never really worked through but I was afraid people would be mad at me for starting a new thread, when it is regarding the same marital problems I've always had. 

I had a HUGE, monumental breakdown with my husband. I'm not sure what happened. We were watching t.v. He went upstairs to get snacks. He was gone for a long time. I went up to check on him. He was at the kitchen window with a camera. I asked him what was going on. He SSHed me and opened the window (which was loud). I asked what was going on... he got all weird, said he saw someone then went up to the bedroom window. He said he was using the camera to look at the person, because it looked like they were messing with a car. He said the camera wouldn't focus. I grabbed the camera and attempted to turn it on and take a photo. It would not take a photo because the memory card wasn't in it. I asked where the memory card was because I knew my husband had just put it back in there after it had been missing for a long time. 

He said he had it at work... Anyway. I walked upstairs to find the memory card and my husband was in the doorway. I noticed he had a tightly clenched fist and I asked if he found the card, he said yes. I said, "Oh, good" and attempted to grab it. He clenched his fist tighter. I asked what he was doing... he refused to give me the card. I asked him what he was up to... what is going on? What have you been doing? He said nothing.. and that I was crazy. I said ok, just give me the card. 

Long story short. I said some things that I was afraid of. I said "You wouldn't want to hide the card from me if there wasn't something on it you didn't want me to see" He told me I was insane and said "I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of giving you the card and justify your behavior" I then said some crazy ****. I told him (in a calm and loving voice) I knew what he was up to, that he was taking pictures of women or something and that we could figure it out. I told him I think he has a problem and that whatever it is, we can work through it. I asked if he was taking pictures of his **** or something. He said I was insane. (He was twice arrested for voyeurism years and years ago, but told me one was a childhood prank and the other was a misunderstanding- knocking on women's windows... I believed him.) I told him I didn't trust him and he said he knew that... and that he wasn't going to justify my being irrational by showing me what was on the card.

He took the card and put it in his computer. I tried to calmly get him to talk about things. I said, "Okay, lets say I am crazy. If you love me, you will sit down with me and SHOW me I'm crazy by showing me I am making something out of nothing. THEN, and only then will I believe you are rational in telling me I am "crazy". Again, he refused. He held his hand over the card in his computer to keep me from getting it. 

It got really nasty.... it got physical. Me grabbing at his hand, trying to pry his fingers open... him twisting my arms away, pushing me away, etc. It was ugly. No hits exchanged but some serious tug-of-war/ arm wrestling **** like on an elementary playground. It was very bad. I was stuffing my hands in his pockets looking for the card and he was telling me to get the **** off. 

He left in our only car with the card and his computer. 

He called a little while later and said he couldn't believe what I had done. He said he was really mad about all of the horrible things I said... He said, "Now that I know what you really think about me, do you want to know what I think? I think that you are a ****ing drug ***** and that you used to suck **** for drugs; that's why you stayed with that boyfriend for so long so you could get your drugs. That's probably why you used to have your tongue pierced, too, so you could suck **** to get drugs." He hung up.

He called again to tell me he was going to come home soon and we were going to live as roommates for a while. He told me to pick a bed. I chose the master bed. He said he didn't want to see me when he came home.

He called again and asked if there was anything else I needed to say. I was totally calm and described how shocked I was by his strange behavior about giving me the card. He told me he didn't know where it was, I went to look for it and couldn't find it... came back to find he had it and seemed to be hiding it in his fist. 

Anyway, he ended the conversation by, again telling me I am a drug ***** who used to suck **** for money. (SO far from the truth it's really quite hilarious.) He hung up. 

He called back. Said he was sorry for hanging up and that it wasn't fair to end the conversation. He said that is how he knows how to deal. We tried to be cordial and I tried to tell him how far off base he was by saying those things about me and tried to rebuff his comments with fact. (FACT: I had a rough period when I was 20-21 with an older "more mature" boyfriend. I thought he was the one. He introduced me to marijuana. He would occasionally give me stimulant to keep me up all night so I could party with him. I stupidly took them a few times. I was never an addict and I stopped using marijuana after 8 months because it made me paranoid. I was with the boyfriend for a year and a half. We ended because he stood me up and refused to stop smoking marijuana and popping pills.) SO, my husband wouldn't listen to the FACTS. Told me I was wasting my breath talking and he was holding his phone away from his ear. He grew angry and irritated and again said he didn't care about anything I had to say, that I was a drug ***** who sucked **** for drugs. (Again, and I state with a GREAT deal of emphasis; I was NOT a drug ***** and I NEVER sucked **** for drugs.) He hung up. 

Um, Yeah. I know this is really, REALLY...
REALLY bad. 

Thoughts would be helpful, but please don't be mean to me. I've had enough of that in my life. I'm not stupid. I'm stuck in a not-so-nice situation with a person that I love very much. I'm not sure how we got to this point. I am scared. Not for my safety... but for my sanity and the future of our relationship. I feel totally hopeless and helpless.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

lancaster said:


> I am curious how big a part alcohol plays in your life. Alcohol has the potential to be very damaging to relationships.


I responded to you once before and told you it was not a big part of my life. That may have been a partial truth. I use alcohol as a coping mechanism to deal with stress. When I'm a little stressed, I have a gin and tonic. That leads to two gin and tonics.. then three. I get pretty numbed out and then I'm good to go (to bed!). 

My husband and I drank regularly through the winter (2 drinks a night 4 nights a week) because it was a rough winter, we were stuck inside all the time and there was nothing to do. I felt icky all the time so I stopped drinking. Besides, I never got drunk, so what was the point? 

A week ago something terrible happened. I don't really understand what happened, to be honest, and I think I may have been careless with a new prescription medication.. and combined that with drinking alcohol. I am not sure if that is what happened or not, as I don't recall taking an anti-anxiety pill that morning, but it is possible. Regardless, went on date night with husband... things were wonderful- we were having fun.... I was at a bar having a good time and then... I woke up naked in the ER 5 hours later. I remember NOTHING. This is NOT normal. Nothing like this has EVER happened to me before. Sure, I may have gotten carried away and had too much to drink but I have never blacked out, not even for a few minutes. The problem is, I woke to my husband telling me "Wake the **** up. Wake the **** up." I think he may have said some other things I feel as if he called me "trash" or "garbage" or something... but it's hazy. It was mean. Mean enough for a doctor to ask me if I was safe to go home with him. I said yes. 

My husband came to a screeching halt in front of our building and said "get the **** out". I did. I was wearing blue hospital scrubs and a hospital t-shirt with no bra and hospital socks. I was a mess. My husband just took off and left me there like I was garbage. My mom was there with our child for the weekend and was SO angry that my husband left me there like that. He said he was trying to find a parking space. 

I have vowed to never drink again. However, the urge is already there. If I have an urge, that might just mean I do, in fact, have a problem. Instead of drinking away my troubles, my GP was kind enough to give me a prescription for Ativan, something he says is less harmless. I've had 3 tonight. (Yes, timed properly according to the label on the bottle, NOT all at once!)


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I didn't read all the replies, but honestly, I think therapy would not help you even IF you could locate someone with the ridiculously specific requirements he's laid out there. 

The answer to your solution is very simple, but very difficult: 

STOP DRINKING AND STOP TOLERATING BULLSH*T.

Do not engage with him at any level. Yes, you've probably been too critical, and that should stop anyway, but you should also stop participating with ANYONE who treats you badly. 

If this doesn't fix the problem, go to plan B and file for divorce. 

Yes, it really is that simple and that hard.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Can you please tell us what the eff you are doing with this piece of garbage you call a husband?!?!?!

Sorry, I know you said not to be 'mean', and that is mean, but I am sitting here reading what you wrote and I am in total disbelief. Surely you can read what you wrote? Have you tried reading it as if it were a friend of yours telling you all of this? What advice would you give your friend?


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

I know exactly where u are coming from. I work out of my house, and except for the ocassional Skype video conference with a customer, or the ocassional consultant coming here for a couple days to work on a project, I am on my own. My wife travels a lot, so often its just me and the dog. When wife comes home, I am all over her until she says "give me some space" and "boy, you need to get out more".

So I am trying to get out more. Gym, some continuing education classes, some Meetup type groups (hiking, outdoors). I suggest you try the same...if you have more outside interests, you will not be so overly attached to your husband when he does come home. A little space goes a LONG way!


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Can you please tell us what the eff you are doing with this piece of garbage you call a husband?!?!?!
> 
> Sorry, I know you said not to be 'mean', and that is mean, but I am sitting here reading what you wrote and I am in total disbelief. Surely you can read what you wrote? Have you tried reading it as if it were a friend of yours telling you all of this? What advice would you give your friend?


I have a serious codependency problem.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

KathyBatesel said:


> I didn't read all the replies, but honestly, I think therapy would not help you even IF you could locate someone with the ridiculously specific requirements he's laid out there.
> 
> The answer to your solution is very simple, but very difficult:
> 
> ...


Thanks.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

skinamarink said:


> I have a serious codependency problem.


ok..........so what are you doing about it?


----------

