# Does the hatred for the AP stem from the love bank theory??



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I was just pondering this and wondering if the whole hatred and resentment of the AP stems from this theory?

I think it all has to do with the whole love bank idea discussed in some of the recovery books (have read so many can't remember exactly who coined the idea and which it appeared in). The premise I think holds true for the AP just as it as it does for the WS. The idea that the AP deposits into the WS love credits throughout the A and after the A is ended, have not had time to make sufficient withdrawals. This balance makes the A easily resumed in the future and the WS always carries some sort of torch for the AP until wronged so heinously that the account sustains huge withdrawals causing the WS to no longer have love for the AP.

Do most think that the opposite, a sort of hate bank, exists for the AP and the WS as well. The WS also has an account but through the constant contact and attempts to right the wrong of the A, the hate bank is depleated for the WS while the AP is removed from the situation and always maintains a high hate bank balance. The only way that this balance is lowered is for the AP is for them to suffer some sort of pain or setback (loss of job, spouse, family, freedoms, and/or life).

The more I think about this it makes sense as to why we would despise the AP for so long and hold a grudge against them until they are wronged themselves??

Any other views or thoughts on this theory??


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

It could be that the AP is seen as a bank robber. They've robbed the love bank making the BS feel emotionally bankrupt and suspicious about future banking. Unlike real banks, there's no insurance to cover your losses, so it's a case of having to rebuild a healthy balance again...

It should be borne in mind, though, that the robbery was an inside job and couldn't have taken place without the cooperation of the WS. Sometimes, perhaps, it's easier to believe that it was an armed robbery and therefore the WS is somehow less guilty than the AP!


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

I go with a simple theory: he's a POS. He took advantage of my wife (not taking any of the responsibility away from the WW), cheated on his long time, live-in girlfriend and disrespected me in numerous ways. My wife has cried and apologized and done everything she can to make this up to me. The POSOM won't even face me like a man and apologize (So I guess he ain't stupid, just a chickens!t). No I'll stick with the POS theory.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I think Cosmos sums up my thoughts perfectly. The love units I was owed were going to someone else, so in a way I feel robbed. Still, I actually don't care about the other women all too much. (He had virtual affairs online dating profiles etc. so women is plural) I know they were lied to too and they didn't pursue my ex so they were victims in a way or just objects of his arousal/need for ego kibble. He also slept with women while we were separated. The women he met then were also lied to about me and eventually he realized the grass wasn't greener and tried to come home so I'm sure they were hurt too.

I don't and won't forget though that it was an inside job. He chose to cheat and give affection to others instead of me. 

I think it's normal to be mad, hateful, dislike the AP but sometimes people put too much weight and anger on AP instead of WS. My guess is to protect the love they have for WS. If they put more onus on them, they might not be able to love them enough to R. Even though I think it's despicable to sleep with a married/committed person and that it's okay to be mad at that. Other than the fact that the AP should have better morals and judgment, the AP owes the BS nothing and it's nothing personal. If it wasn't your WS, it would have been someone else's so investing too much in the AP doesn't make sense to me when it's the WS that promised to be faithful and broke that promise.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> I think it's normal to be mad, hateful, dislike the AP but sometimes people put too much weight and anger on AP instead of WS. My guess is to protect the love they have for WS. If they put more onus on them, they might not be able to love them enough to R. Even though I think it's despicable to sleep with a married/committed person and that it's okay to be mad at that. Other than the fact that the AP should have better morals and judgment, the AP owes the BS nothing and it's nothing personal. If it wasn't your WS, it would have been someone else's so investing too much in the AP doesn't make sense to me when it's the WS that promised to be faithful and broke that promise.


Would you still feel the same way that they owed you nothing and share the same sentiment if the AP was someone that you trusted and actually thought was a friend to you (until you found out otherwise)?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

The Love Bank theory explains how the OM bagged my W pretty well. Made all the right deposits in the categories that she is vulnerable to. It's so obvious it's kind of embarrassing. 

MrsM claimed being 'in love' with both of us, because I was still doing a passable job of making deposits even when she was FalseR-ing me. Because they had to go underground his deposits had pretty much dwindled to the kind that comes in a condom, so his 'Love Bank' account was getting low. I think when WW found out he'd been telling people about them, and had been very actively trying to get back with his ex-gf too, he was on the 'Love Buster' train. 

I've never thought about hatred of OM being tied with the idea that he still has a 'bank account'. Interesting. 

OM treated my W like a streetwalker, and while that pisses me off because I don't want her treated that way, that's more on her than me. I pretty much hate OM for hugging me a couple hours after feasting on my W, borrowing our car, staying in our house, and not least being a dolt house-sitter and killing some of my outdoor plants. 

I'll finally know if there's a God next time I encounter him


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## Blacksmith01 (Aug 12, 2013)

I like that Idea. What I don't like is the fact that when You find out that all your deposits have not been posted to your account for x number of months/years because the bank was to busy taking care of the new customer. Then you find out that you are over drawn and they refuse to issue you a line of credit even though you have good credit and have been a valued customer for years. They then turn around and give the new customer free checking/ savings account with no min balance and overdraft protection.
The other thing that makes you made is that for years you had a private deposit slot; just to find out that they also let the new person use it too without so much a deposit bag.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

I don't know but I hate the OM more then any other person I have ever known.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> Other than the fact that the AP should have better morals and judgment, *the AP owes the BS nothing *and it's nothing personal.


See, I don't agree with what is *bolded*. I believe that we ALL have a responsibility _toward_ one another. It's part of what "having morals" is all about. 

If *I* was in AP's shoes, and a man who I knew was 'taken' approached me, I would have turned him down. I would have turned him down because I know that if I accepted his 'offer', *I* would have been hurting his wife. My morals tell me that I have a responsibility toward others NOT to (knowingly) hurt them.

Unfortunately, the AP had this attitude: That she '*owed*' ME nothing. This attitude is what enabled her to pursue my ex...and to eventually have him.

The principle of the Golden Rule (Do unto others...) applies to *EVERYONE*; not ONLY our spouses, friends or people we 'know'. 

Edited to add: I also like the idea of the Love Bank. I've used the analogy before. 


Vega


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I like the twists on the love bank theory posed here by the others. Put a smile on my face for the first time today. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Would you still feel the same way that they owed you nothing and share the same sentiment if the AP was someone that you trusted and actually thought was a friend to you (until you found out otherwise)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No. If it was a friend, I'd feel betrayed by the friend as well. I'd still feel more betrayed by my WS than the AP though. The standard of care is higher for a spouse than a friend. 

If it was someone in my immediate family - my sister or mother for instance then I'm sure my pain/the betrayal and forthcoming angry would be very similar because family is supposed to be thicker. 


This is all hypothetical though. In my case, the AP(s) were and I were strangers and I feel fortunate for that. I didn't know and still don't know the women he cheated with online or while separated with. Overcoming a betrayal sucks as it is. I imagine a double-betrayal is worse.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

One of my WWs AP was someone that I thought was a friend. She was so kind to me as well, because when I found out he had been pursuing her for years and finally got her. I asked why she never said anything all of that time (as she claimed she hated it), and she sad she didn't want to hurt me and destroy our friendship as I have so few friends. Really?? I have so few friends for a reason and she let me think he was one of them while groping and pursuing my wife for years and then succeeding. I don't believe her about all of these facts but will never get the truth. This is why I hate the AP. Another was supposed to be getting me a job. Then I found out he was bedding my wife and the only reason he was "getting" me a job was to have her closer. 

She had made me a laughing stock and the butt of many jokes and this is why I hate the APs so much. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Early on when I felt all the anger I didn't know where to direct it. So a target was this mysterious AP of FWW. 

I am glad I didn't know, and now no longer care. 

Within a few months though I didn't feel that burning anger anymore. And now I no longer care who he is or where he's from. 

I think when you get to that point you're in a better place.

If it wasn't this guy it would have been a different one. The AP is interchangeable.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

awake1 said:


> Early on when I felt all the anger I didn't know where to direct it. So a target was this mysterious AP of FWW.
> 
> I am glad I didn't know, and now no longer care.
> 
> ...


Easy to say when you have no details. Would you be singing the same tune if you found out that it was a good friend or relative that your WW was cheating with? What if they got together and laughed at you, made jokes and belittled you all at your expense (as that is what they were doing)? I think this is sort of a defeatest attitude to just accept that without consequences (we all expect the BS to have them so why not the AP as well?). If you are willing to say "if not him then it would have been someone else", then you might as well also say that your wife is a **** or *****, as that is the ideal at play here. It just sounds that there was nothing special here and she would have just found someone else to fill her void. That hole she needed filling. Giggity.


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## Roddy (Mar 4, 2013)

This is an interesting take. Some say if it wasn't this POSOM, it would just be another. Maybe, maybe not. In my case if it had been someone unknown to me, I would find it easier to come out of my betrayed fog. His “hate bank” would fade over time. But he has been bold and clever. He was a friend of mine. I owned a golf shop that was being sold and was stuck helping the new owners run events for a few weeks. It is also the place all my friends hang out and play golf. He was sent a no contact letter asking that he not approach me while I am stuck there. First Friday night scramble in front of everyone, (everyone knew of the affair), he walks right up to me in front of 50 people and I am forced to take his bets. Three days later I stop by for coffee and he is in a card game with my friends, then it is out to the first tee for a golf game. He understands that only one of us can continue at this course and he is forcing the issue.

My idiot friends, for the most part, are enabling him to force me away from the course. The course I have played for 25 years, where all my friends play, the course I play for free as part of my sale agreement. So this has very little to do with the affair at this point, it is a slap in the face every day. His bank is so far in the red, I can't see how I could ever let it go. All he had to do was leave me alone and I would let him be. But as it is, I WILL find a way to fark him up.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Easy to say when you have no details. Would you be singing the same tune if you found out that it was a good friend or relative that your WW was cheating with?


Well the 8 or so EA partners I do have names, pictures etc. I don't hate them either. Actually there's a few I felt bad for. It's obvious by reading the painful things they wrote just how inept they are. 

The one confirmed PA guy is the mystery man. 

They were rather pathetic. 



Squeakr said:


> What if they got together and laughed at you, made jokes and belittled you all at your expense


I assume that's exactly what was going on with a few. That sort of goes with the territory. 

For her to cheat, I would have to be torn down in her eyes anyways to justify it. But I no longer view that as a reflection of me. 

I understand that her decision to cheat does not mean I'm a bad person, or ugly, or anything. 

By looking at other affair partners, i've seen it's often a case of the wayward spouse trading down. From a logical perspective it's probably true in my case as well. 

In my case, ridicule came from her face to face as well. I am no longer offended by it, and haven't been for some time. Why would i be? 

I've been called worse by better men. And these APs are not better men.





Squeakr said:


> I think this is sort of a defeatest attitude to just accept that without consequences (we all expect the BS to have them so why not the AP as well?). If you are willing to say "if not him then it would have been someone else", then you might as well also say that your wife is a **** or *****, as that is the ideal at play here. It just sounds that there was nothing special here and she would have just found someone else to fill her void. That hole she needed filling. Giggity.




I believe in most cases if a man or woman is prone to cheating, and the right circumstances exist (the right AP, the right marriage issues etc.) then they probably will. 

From all i've read when it comes to cheating wives, it's generally the first guy who pays her attention. Once she's getting that attention fix, she'll justify his worth in her eyes to keep the high flowing. (Which would explain why many, if not most, wives "trade down") 

For men I think it's more about sex. And probably why they too, sleep with one of the first women to offer it. And why they too often trade down. 

The affairs partners can be fat, skinny, good looking, ugly. It doesn't seem to really matter. 

The WS needs the justification or desire to cheat in form of relationship issues, emotional issues etc. Then they need the opportunity in the form of an available affair partner. I think once those two conditions are met the standards are lowered to a reasonable level to allow for the affair to take place. They then pick the "best" of the available APs. I don't believe attachment or feelings factor into anything until all these conditions are met. I think the attachment or love comes after the AP is accepted, not before. If that makes sense.

And they generally have to lower their standards, because no well adjusted individual is going to sleep with a married woman or man. An individual with prospects probably wouldn't either. A well desired man or woman wouldn't go for a married partner because they don't need to.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Would you still feel the same way that they owed you nothing and share the same sentiment if the AP was someone that you trusted and actually thought was a friend to you (until you found out otherwise)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A spouse is even closer than a friend - they're family - yet they are not only just as guilty as the friend, but they've also broken their marriage vows...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> A spouse is even closer than a friend; they're family - yet in this scenario they would have not only done as much betraying as the friend, they would have broken their marriage vows...


Yes but it is a given that the WS is despised and hated by the BS for a while, whether admitted out loud or not. If that wasn't the case then there would be no need for punishments and consequences.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> It could be that the AP is seen as a bank robber. They've robbed the love bank making the BS feel emotionally bankrupt and suspicious about future banking. Unlike real banks, there's no insurance to cover your losses, so it's a case of having to rebuild a healthy balance again...
> 
> It should be borne in mind, though, that the robbery was an inside job and couldn't have taken place without the cooperation of the WS. Sometimes, perhaps, it's easier to believe that it was an armed robbery and therefore the WS is somehow less guilty than the AP!


Bank Robber? For me it's more like the AP has an account at another love bank. The AP tricked/seduced/convinced the WS into making deposits/withdrawls from this other bank (or the converse, the WS seduced the AP). While the WS is doing this, they are making the absolute minimum deposits into the BS's love bank, hence the feeling of emotional starvation. The WS seem extremely adept at determining the minimum love deposit necessary such that the BS will not rebel. 

The problem is, emotional connection is like a drug. Deposits in the AP's bank get larger while deposits in the WS's bank get smaller. The results are predictable, hence we have the cheater's script.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Any other views or thoughts on this theory??


Like most situation, the injured party has to have a villain who took advantage of the W/S. Most cannot reconcile unless they can offload a good bit of the responsibility for the "indiscretions" on to a third party.
A more realistic analogy is a spouse who goes Vegas and loses the down payment on the planned new house. Do you forgive the spouse and hold the "POS" casino responsible?


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> It could be that the AP is seen as a bank robber. They've robbed the love bank making the BS feel emotionally bankrupt and suspicious about future banking. Unlike real banks, there's no insurance to cover your losses, so it's a case of having to rebuild a healthy balance again...
> 
> It should be borne in mind, though, that the robbery was an inside job and couldn't have taken place without the cooperation of the WS. Sometimes, perhaps, it's easier to believe that it was an armed robbery and therefore the WS is somehow less guilty than the AP!


QFT. Cosmos sums it up perfectly. The AP is like a "love thief" in the eyes of the BS.

In reality though, they are more like a scavenger animal who came across a free meal (aka: the WS). It's natural to hate this animal if it is "your" meal they are eating though. It is also easy for the BS to demonize and hate the AP even moreso than probably deserved because it is difficult to comprehend how the WS could be so vile and cause them so much pain. This is the angel you were to spend your life with, remember? 

It's easier to think of the WS as a "victim" .. many BS take this line of thinking because it is easier to process the pain this way. There is just no way their "perfect angel" could have done this all on their own, right??? There is a word for this ... DENIAL.


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## Roddy (Mar 4, 2013)

> Like most situation, the injured party has to have a villain who took advantage of the W/S. Most cannot reconcile unless they can offload a good bit of the responsibility for the "indiscretions" on to a third party.
> A more realistic analogy is a spouse who goes Vegas and loses the down payment on the planned new house. Do you forgive the spouse and hold the "POS" casino responsible?


My wayward is at fault in this mess. But I don't care if she stood around with no pants for a year, my ex-friend is responsible for the total disrespect since. She is doing all she can to make it up to me and he is trying to get his ass kicked.


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

My hatred for the AP stems from the visceral response to a low-life trailer park pig attacking my family, then running like a scared little b***h when he found out I knew.

It's easy, and righteous, to hate cowardly pigs.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

All too often on these boards you see this demonization of the APs by the BS while the WS gets treated with kid gloves as if they were the victim of a sexual assault.

I guess I can somewhat understand in that they sometimes want to salvage their relationship. However, the "nice guy" approach rarely if ever works.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

I just hate her more than I have ever hated another person. My WS is more to blame, he was married/took vows. She knew he was married, she knew we have been together over 16 years, she knew how it felt to have a husband cheat on her, she knew it was wrong but yet she found a weak spot and happily moved right in, becoming his every fantasy. They used to date in HS and she has wanted him all these years. I HATE her and want the karma bus to roll over her big time.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Yes but it is a given that the WS is despised and hated by the BS for a while, whether admitted out loud or not. If that wasn't the case then there would be no need for punishments and consequences.


I agree with you, Squeaker. But all too often we have spouses who seem to condemn the AP more than they do the WS - almost as though the WS were a helpless victim of a predator. Perhaps they have to do this in order to give them a second chance. I don't know...


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Jung_admirer said:


> Bank Robber? For me it's more like the AP has an account at another love bank. The AP tricked/seduced/convinced the WS into making deposits/withdrawls from this other bank (or the converse, the WS seduced the AP). While the WS is doing this, they are making the absolute minimum deposits into the BS's love bank, hence the feeling of emotional starvation. The WS seem extremely adept at determining the minimum love deposit necessary such that the BS will not rebel.


:iagree: But this tends to assume that the AP instigated the robbery, which is not always the case.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Like most situation, the injured party has to have a villain who took advantage of the W/S. Most cannot reconcile unless they can offload a good bit of the responsibility for the "indiscretions" on to a third party.
> A more realistic analogy is a spouse who goes Vegas and loses the down payment on the planned new house. Do you forgive the spouse and hold the "POS" casino responsible?


No because the casino is a neutral entity. It doesn't "seduce" gamblers, and "take" all of their money. The casino doesn't have a choice to be a casino or to be an apartment building. 

The AP and the WS BOTH have the choice to enter into an affair...

...or *not*. 

Vega


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> A more realistic analogy is a spouse who goes Vegas and loses the down payment on the planned new house. Do you forgive the spouse and hold the "POS" casino responsible?



I don't agree with this analogy, as the POS Casino only took your money. It didn't belittle you, take your self esteem, and threaten your very being. The W didn't get together with it and do things that you would never get all the while the Casino and her laughing at you. The Casino was a gamble (and a bad one at that) but it is possible that things could have turned out very profitable as well. Name one A that had the initial intention or probability of being good or ever having a good outcome for the BS??


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I agree with you, Squeaker. But all too often we have spouses who seem to condemn the AP more than they do the WS - almost as though the WS were a helpless victim of a predator. Perhaps they have to do this in order to give them a second chance. I don't know...


I think it's natural too because of the emotional investment we have in our BS's. Even if we're not reconciling. It's easier to demonize the AP (and yes, their actions are evil) more than the WS for the affair because we have history and love or at least used to love the WS. Even if the AP was a supposed friend, the love for our WS's is stronger than the affinity we had for the back-stabbing friend so it clouds some of the anger towards them and the anger has to go somewhere.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I contend the hatred of the AP is because the BS can't (or more likely won't) channel their anger where it truly belongs, with the WS. Lots of reasons for the BS to do that, but none of them are really good reasons. The anger and revenge belongs with the WS; too few BS's get this right.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Easy to say when you have no details. Would you be singing the same tune if you found out that it was a good friend or relative that your WW was cheating with? What if they got together and laughed at you, made jokes and belittled you all at your expense (as that is what they were doing)?"

I think the POS would be eating his meals through a straw if I ever got a hold of his a** in this case.

See how much this want to be 'alpha' is laughing then.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

This whole CWI scared the crap out of me. I don't hate my WW or the AP, but had there not been remorse, I would have laid waste to their worlds (not physically, but in every legal way) This would have necessarily meant hurting people I love dearly as collateral damage. I had never seen this vengeful side of myself before. I am not a religious man, but I thank God for my WW turning back toward the marriage, and for the caring support of my therapist. I now understand how people can commit horrific acts when trespasses are not acknowledged and repaired. I was almost one of them, looking directly at my shadow and wondering where that guy came from. He will never be in control (I wonder if that pisses him off?).


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I contend the hatred of the AP is because the BS can't (or more likely won't) channel their anger where it truly belongs, with the WS. Lots of reasons for the BS to do that, but none of them are really good reasons. The anger and revenge belongs with the WS; too few BS's get this right.


This is sooooooooo true. You see it time and time again on these forums. Not saying the AP deserves zero blame, just that the BS is not married to the AP, they are married to the WS ... that is where the vast majority of the blame truly lies.

I guess in the fog of fresh betrayal, many BS don't want to believe it.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ironman said:


> This is sooooooooo true. You see it time and time again on these forums. Not saying the AP deserves zero blame, just that the BS is not married to the AP, they are married to the WS ... that is where the vast majority of the blame truly lies.
> 
> I guess in the fog of fresh betrayal, many BS don't want to believe it.



I disagree and believe that it belongs to both the AP and the WS, equally. Why is it that if the marriage is going bad the BS is supposed to shoulder 50% of the burden and responsibility for this, but then when it comes to the affair the WS is supposed to be 100% responsible and the AP gets to skate away free with statements like "if it wasn't them it would be someone else". They took part and made the decision just like the WS, so they too have a responsibility in this as well. 

By this logic, if someone is a cheater, then the BS should never be responsible for anything within a relationship if the Ws has ever cheated before in their life, as once a cheater always a cheater and the BS was just the next victim and if it wouldn't have been them it would have been someone else, right??


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I disagree and believe that it belongs to both the AP and the WS, equally. Why is it that if the marriage is going bad the BS is supposed to shoulder 50% of the burden and responsibility for this, but then when it comes to the affair the WS is supposed to be 100% responsible and the AP gets to skate away free with statements like "if it wasn't them it would be someone else". They took part and made the decision just like the WS, so they too have a responsibility in this as well.


(Applauding) :iagree: 

No one held a gun to the WS's or the AP's head and forced them to cheat. They both knew what they were doing was WRONG. If either the WS OR the AP had declined the "invitation" to cheat, no affair would have taken place. 

Cheating is _*voluntary*_. 

Vega


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

An AP that KNEW the WS was married is just as guilty, but the TYPE of injury is different.

As a result, their consequences are, and should be different.

The WS should lose their entire relationship and be kicked to the curb hard. Period.

Even if the BS decides to get back with them after they show true remorse and desire to try again, it should be on the basis of building an entirely new M. The WS killed the old one and it is completely dead.

The AP did not have vows, so the way they are handled is differently, IMO.

This is a stranger who came in and purposely screwed with another person's family and life. The BS and children had never done a thing to this POS, but they blew apart their lives.

I see it this way. Just as I OWE a person the obligation not to rob them, assault them , etc, without cause, I also owe it to them to stay the F out of their M.

If I violate that, I should expect to be treated just like a person who robbed, assaulted, etc, that person and their kids.

What would you do to someone who assaulted your kids?

Personally, I'd ruin their life in any way possible and if I got the chance to get a hold of them, I would beat them silly.

Any AP that knows his lover is married should expect the same.

They are not innocent bystanders who owe the BS and the family nothing.

F them. They are pieces of human excrement who deserve any and all retribution the BS can rain down on their lives.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> One of my WWs AP was someone that I thought was a friend. She was so kind to me as well, because when I found out he had been pursuing her for years and finally got her. I asked why she never said anything all of that time (as she claimed she hated it), and she sad she didn't want to hurt me and destroy our friendship as I have so few friends. Really?? I have so few friends for a reason and she let me think he was one of them while groping and pursuing my wife for years and then succeeding. I don't believe her about all of these facts but will never get the truth. This is why I hate the AP. Another was supposed to be getting me a job. Then I found out he was bedding my wife and the only reason he was "getting" me a job was to have her closer.
> 
> She had made me a laughing stock and the butt of many jokes and this is why I hate the APs so much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A male who takes your wife really does "SON" you! Not good.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> "Easy to say when you have no details. Would you be singing the same tune if you found out that it was a good friend or relative that your WW was cheating with? What if they got together and laughed at you, made jokes and belittled you all at your expense (as that is what they were doing)?"
> 
> I think the POS would be eating his meals through a straw if I ever got a hold of his a** in this case.
> 
> See how much this want to be 'alpha' is laughing then.


Please don't get me wrong. The AP is a supreme POS and deserves anything bad they get, and then some. I do not contend that they should get a pass by any means and I'm sorry if it came across that way. What I'm getting at is that when it comes to the desire for hatred and revenge it seems to me that the WS is not getting their fair share. And, IMO, this is especially true when the BS is a guy; too much focus on the AP and not enough on the WS.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> An AP that KNEW the WS was married is just as guilty, but the TYPE of injury is different.
> 
> As a result, their consequences are, and should be different.
> 
> ...


Oh Dyokemm. *sniff, sniff* Reading this post had me in _TEARS_. This is so close to how I really feel. I see the WS and the AP both as "moral criminals" of sorts. 

And yes, they BOTH _DESERVE_ the BS's "wrath". Just because the AP didn't have a legal obligation, doesn't mean that their _social obligation _toward the BS was any _less_ important. 

Vega


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

So should the AP that is married then be held to a harder standard than the single AP, as the married AP does have vows (even though they are not with the WS or BS, they have vows that they violated just as well so does that not put them on the level of a WS?


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> I was just pondering this and wondering if the whole hatred and resentment of the AP stems from this theory?
> 
> I think it all has to do with the whole love bank idea discussed in some of the recovery books (have read so many can't remember exactly who coined the idea and which it appeared in). The premise I think holds true for the AP just as it as it does for the WS. The idea that the AP deposits into the WS love credits throughout the A and after the A is ended, have not had time to make sufficient withdrawals. This balance makes the A easily resumed in the future and the WS always carries some sort of torch for the AP until wronged so heinously that the account sustains huge withdrawals causing the WS to no longer have love for the AP.
> 
> ...




The LB deposits remain after the affair. That is why there must be NC for life. Contact causes the LB deposits to be remembered making the restarting of the affair easier.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

That's exactly what I said in the first paragraph??


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> So should the AP that is married then be held to a harder standard than the single AP, as the married AP does have vows (even though they are not with the WS or BS, they have vows that they violated just as well so does that not put them on the level of a WS?


IMHO, cheating is cheating is cheating. If two people have an agreement to *exclusively* be dating/having sex with ONLY each other--_whether they're married or not_--if one of them cheats, it will hurt. BADLY. So to me, it doesn't matter if the AP was married, had a live-in b/f or g/f, was engaged, exclusively dating someone or 'single'. 

The AP wasn't merely an 'accomplice' in the act of cheating. An accomplice to the act would be any of the people (if any)who _knew_ about the cheating ahead of the BS knowing. But the AP was a _FULL *PARTNER* in it! _

If the AP knew FULLY WELL that the WS was otherwise in a committed relationship, then (s)he is _just as culpable _for the cheating as the WS.

Vega


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Vega,
I like your style!!


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Vega,
> I like your style!!


Awwwww, shucks, Squeakr.  *draws aimlessly in sand with big toe*. Thanks. I was editing while you posted this, so you may want to re-read what I added. Hopefully, you'll still like it! :smthumbup:

V


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I posted after the edit, as it was all there when I posted.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

i think the hatred stems from the simple fact they(AP's) are a total POS.

then again, it was the WS that chose this path so they're just as much a POS as their AP.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I disagree and believe that it belongs to both the AP and the WS, equally. Why is it that if the marriage is going bad the BS is supposed to shoulder 50% of the burden and responsibility for this, but then when it comes to the affair the WS is supposed to be 100% responsible and the AP gets to skate away free with statements like "if it wasn't them it would be someone else". They took part and made the decision just like the WS, so they too have a responsibility in this as well.
> 
> By this logic, if someone is a cheater, then the BS should never be responsible for anything within a relationship if the Ws has ever cheated before in their life, as once a cheater always a cheater and the BS was just the next victim and if it wouldn't have been them it would have been someone else, right??


I guess we have to agree to disagree then. Blame on AP and WS equally??? Nope. The AP is not your spouse and didn't take vows to be loyal to you. Are they still a POS, yeah .. in cases where they KNEW they were messing with a married person who had no intentions of getting divorced. They are akin to someone who stole something from you, in my opinion. But that's it.

The WS on the other hand, is guilty of betrayal on several different levels. Betrayal as a legal spouse, as a lover, and to family. What really gets me is the broken vows part of it. I hate that.

As far as the "if it wasn't this AP it would've been someone else" argument ... there is some truth to that. A person looking to cheat is going to find an outlet sooner or later.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Okay maybe not equally. I just threw that out there as the WS chose to cheat but we are supposed to be equally responsible for everything but the cheating so it only seemed to me fair that the AP shoulder some blame as well. I don't agree with the if not them then someone else theory. Yes my WW cheated and destroyed my world and our family but I don't think she was set on cheating and choosing the first swinging d!ck that strolled by (lucky him). This was someone my wife dated in high school and took her virginity so he had a big history in her life and wasn't just mr lucky to be in the right spot at the right time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

Still, all that hate does wear a body down, and it's just not healthy physically, emotionally, or spiritually to allow such hostility to fester.

Whenever that hate becomes a burden, and I need some relief, I recite a personal prayer to balance my heart, mind and soul, and bring a little peace back into my existence.

I'd like to share the prayer with this forum, hoping that it can also bring your troubled souls a measure of peace. Here it is:

_*MY SERENITY PRAYER*
Got grant me the serenity to formulate a successful ambush (like the one he executed on my family), the strength to snap his ribs like crab legs in a vise (so he can experience for himself what it’s like to hurt for every breath for months at a time), and the wisdom to plan it so that I get away with it, forever and ever. Amen._


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

I don't think it's okay for a single person to fish for a married person. If they do, and the married person bites, the AP shares some blame. 

I don't think it is always 'if not the specific AP, it would be someone else.' Yes, some people know they're not happy and seek out an affair, however others slip into it gradually and might not have ever taken the step to advance the affair. Some people are submissive. They might not stop it, but they won't start it. 

You can't have an explosion without flammable material, air, and a spark. 

I may be naive and one of those BS that don't want to vilify the WW out of hand and rain the hate, but I feel pretty confident in thinking the A wouldn't have gone physical if the POSOM hadn't made the first move to kissing and oral. She may have _wanted_ it consciously (denied of course) but *I don't think she'd take that step first*. People have said in my thread that the older woman is always the aggressor, etc. but that's an absolute I'm not buying into. I don't think my viewpoint makes it 'better' or keeps MrsM on a pedestal, or displaces the blame, or means she isn't getting her fair share of comeuppance. It just means she was more weak willed than I thought, and that one set of flaws is exchanged for another. I think a person in an affair is either ignorant and powerless to stop themselves, or cruel. Unaware or aware. Neither is good. 

I'm certain my WW is entirely to 'blame' for the EA though, and without that...


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

MrMathias said:


> I don't think it's okay for a single person to fish for a married person. If they do, and the married person bites, the AP shares some blame.
> 
> I don't think it is always 'if not the specific AP, it would be someone else.' Yes, some people know they're not happy and seek out an affair, however others slip into it gradually and might not have ever taken the step to advance the affair. Some people are submissive. They might not stop it, but they won't start it.
> 
> ...


The POSOM in my situation pursued my wife for 2 full years before the affair went physical. He's 12 years younger than us.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

JustGrinding,

If I remember right, didn't your WW protect POS's identity long enough for him to transfer to a different region to avoid facing consequences/exposure from you?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I don't agree with this analogy, as the POS Casino only took your money. It didn't belittle you, take your self esteem, and threaten your very being. * The W didn't get together with it and do things that you would never get all the while the Casino and her laughing at you. * The Casino was a gamble (and a bad one at that) but it is possible that things could have turned out very profitable as well. * Name one A that had the initial intention or probability of being good or ever having a good outcome for the BS??*


Actually yours. You realized you were married to a second rate spouse in a substandard marriage. If you done what you need to do, you dumped that individual and got out of futures years where you were little more than a meal ticket. When a woman (or man) does things to another they won't do to you it means they rate you way down on the totem pole and think of you as unworthy of their "affections".


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Actually yours. You realized you were married to a second rate spouse in a substandard marriage. If you done what you need to do, you dumped that individual and got out of futures years where you were little more than a meal ticket. When a woman (or man) does things to another they won't do to you it means they rate you way down on the totem pole and think of you as unworthy of their "affections".


As much as I can see your point I think, not truly sure but still trying to see it. I don't think your tact or approach was anything but insulting and hurtful. One, it is not my A, never was and never will be!!! That is forever my WW's action to own and will never be mine whether R or D happens. I said what A had an *initial intent *to be those things. None ever does, No one goes into an A thinking that the BS is going to benefit from greatly from this action (in fact they don't think about the BS at all). I also don't think it is fair to judge things as second rate and substandard and generally attack me (or at least that is how it feels) when you have no knowledge of the actual situation and the people involved. Just because I don't agree with cheaters actions and despise them, I would not insult someone by calling their cheating W a wh0re, or their cheating H an a$$hole. I feel that some decorum is appreciated and necessary. Did you feel that making it personal was really necessary???

The whole nature of this thread was a discussion of thoughts and ideals not a declaration of personal issues and a chance to be beat up over them.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I wasn't trying to make it personal per se. In my opinion, if a spouse discovers they are not foremost and their spouse favors another with their affections, (as you put it, does with another what they will not do with you) the discovering spouse is a "winner" by not wasting another moment with that individual. I'm second in a lot of things in life. My marriage ain't going to be one of them.
Additionally, too many on this site, again in my opinion, tend to let the WS off the hook by blaming the other person as if they were the drunk driver that caused the accident.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> I wasn't trying to make it personal per se. In my opinion, if a spouse discovers they are not foremost and their spouse favors another with their affections, (as you put it, does with another what they will not do with you) the discovering spouse is a "winner" by not wasting another moment with that individual. I'm second in a lot of things in life. My marriage ain't going to be one of them.
> Additionally, too many on this site, again in my opinion, tend to let the WS off the hook by blaming the other person as if they were the drunk driver that caused the accident.


I feel what you just said was a lot more diplomatic and acceptable than the prior statement. You didn't need to talk down to me and about status levels or such and pass judgements. Those judgements don't exist in this version which was much more diplomatic. When you said "yours." you made it personal whether intended or not. And once again, just because the BS might come out a winner due to truths being revealed (this is side effect/ bonus), the *INITIAL INTENT* (which was what I specifically asked about) was not trying for the win to happen. When someone gambles that id the INITAL INTENT, to win and not lose everything (If people had no chance of ever winning they wouldn't play).

I am stopping now, as I am not out to be insulted further.

PS, when someone says it is hurtful, whether your INITIAL INTENTION was that or not, apologies still go a long way. Saying that is not what was intended is not an apology, but more of a rug sweep.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Ok, Squeakr, I see your point. I tend to come on a little to strong at times. This was one of those times. You're right; I don't know your situation and I was judging it in generic terms. I apologize for offending you.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Thanks, TP. Now to move on from this. No harm no foul apology accepted. To many triggers today and I may have taken it all out on you. Sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> That's exactly what I said in the first paragraph??


Yes you did though that does not match up with your title and that is what I responded to.

Love bank has nothing to do with hating the OM.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I agree with you, Squeaker. But all too often we have spouses who seem to condemn the AP more than they do the WS - almost as though the WS were a helpless victim of a predator. Perhaps they have to do this in order to give them a second chance. I don't know...


78% of all marriages survive an affair. To do so requires forgiving the WS.

People keep forgetting this simple fact that the BS can not recover the marriage and hate their WS.

The BS does not hold the WS blameless falling to a predator.

They hate the AP because they should. They do not get over hating the AP because there is no need to forgive the AP to recover their marriage with their WS.

Talk about thick heads.

Recovering from an affair has nothing to do with being fair to all involved.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> I contend the hatred of the AP is because the BS can't (or more likely won't) channel their anger where it truly belongs, with the WS. Lots of reasons for the BS to do that, but none of them are really good reasons. The anger and revenge belongs with the WS; too few BS's get this right.


Again an affair was nothing about being fair.

Recovery is not about being fair. Anger is placed by all BS on their WS. They must let it go to recover their marriage.

Too few posters get this.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

theroad said:


> Yes you did though that does not match up with your title and that is what I responded to.
> 
> Love bank has nothing to do with hating the OM.



I said *Love Bank Theory*, you know the ideal behind it. If you read the actual Love Bank creator's theory about it in their published works, they specifically address the AP as it does deal with them. They state the idea that the AP also has a Love Bank account with the WS, and the A makes many deposits into that account. Since the A never has the dull monotony of day to day, withdrawals do not happen and the account always has a positive balance (even log after the A is ended). BEcause the account always is positive (and never gets closed, as accounts only get closed when they go into the negative), NC must be made forever, otherwise the A can pick up immediately and continue on (and possibly stronger) as before.

I was just hypothesizing that maybe that is why we hate the AP so much. We have a Hate Bank (so to speak) and we hate the WS and AP. With the WS depleting her account by doing good things for us and positives toward reconciliation and recovery (and with our good memories both newer, recently created ones and fond memories from the past), however the AP disappears from our life and the hate bank account still exists. It never depletes, as we never get a chance to make withdrawals from that account since no positives are made to deplete the account and we have no dealings or memory of the AP (in most cases) to lessen their account balance. 

This was the ideal I was getting at with this post, but maybe I didn't explain it clear enough? As most think we have such hatred for the AP and not hatred for the WS (which they believe is where it should be). I wonder though if my hypothesis isn't a possibility why this happens?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

theroad said:


> 78% of all marriages survive an affair.


That figure is incorrect. Studies suggest that only 31% of marriages make it through infidelity, with 69% of marriages not surviving an affair...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

100% of statistics are generally only good for backing your viewpoint!!!


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