# Wife violated No Contact with EA partner again after 8 months



## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

This has been a crazy ride to say the least. First of all I'd like to thank the people on this forum. I've learned a lot about EA's and the insidious nature their effects on marriage. I'd like to offer some background info:

Been married 13 years, two children, ages 7 and 4

D-Day was 18 months ago

EA partner lives 2,500 miles away (thank God)

He was a family friend that had expressed feelings for my wife in teen years, feelings were not reciprocated at the time

She reconnected with EA partner after 16 years

Started as let's catch up, ended up with thousands of texts, hours of phone calls, gifts and money sent. From her to him. And professed feelings from both

She broke no contact 5 times, 2 after formal no contact letter

I left the home for 8 months after 5th violation

I came back after 8 months because I missed my kids immensely and she said she had broken all contact

We haven't fully reconnected in the 3 months since I've been back

3 weeks ago, she broke contact again 


She doesn't seem truly remorseful. She says she loves me and says she is just being a friend because this guy supposedly has no one. As soon as I threaten to leave again, she says she's truly done with this guy. I want to believe her. But deep inside, I don't. I'm tired of being hyper vigilant. The last time, before I left, I had an emotional breakdown and pretty much lost my mind. I don't have the time, energy, or sick time to deal with this again. The horrible thing about ultimatums is that you have to follow through.I appreciate any advice


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Sorry you are here.

But you are right - an ultimatum is exactly that. Otherwise, it's just an idle threat.

You have given her way too many chances, so many that now she feels entitled to subsequent "do-overs". She doesn't believe you that you will actually end it. So far she's been right.

Life is way too short to spend it trying to make a person love you enough to remain faithful.

File and set yourself free.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Don't bother with no contact letters.

He isn't going to respect them at this point, and he isn't even going to take them seriously.

He will read the letter and think "ya, he wrote this and she is just humoring him..."

And your wife doesn't respect them either.

Don't bother with a no contact letter.

She has to be fully transparent with you, and share all communication lines she uses, 24 x 7.

You need to have a heart to heart with her about the effects of divorce on children.

She clearly does not care/understand how this impacts you, but you can try to educate her on what she's doing to her children.

That may shake her up enough to do this right.

I assume OM is single?

Are you sure that after eight months of you not policing her those two haven't had sex?


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

Thanks. Inland and Allen. 

Yes OM is single.

She tells me it's not romantic talk just friendship. 
I told her she forfeited her privilege for any kind of contact when they both crossed the line

She says I'm over reacting and if I leave over this, that I'm going to scar my kids forever. It was so difficult to be away the last time even though I saw them 3 times a week


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## MyTurn (Oct 27, 2013)

Sorry you are here,
it's time to show her you mean what you say,file for divorce without
telling her and do the 180 . This will show her that you are done with the lies and that you will not be a doormat.If she real wants this to work she will snap out of the fog .


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> Thanks. Inland and Allen.
> 
> Yes OM is single.
> 
> ...


Your mistake is letting her set the terms of the debate. Never let the enemy set the time and place for battle.

The argument isn't over the nature of their relationship.

The argument is that she is having one at all. The argument is that she's a damn liar.

DO NOT let her manipulate you with the kids. Kids are worse off in a dysfunctional home than they are with divorced parents.

(As an aside, my God, the Nice Guy Syndrome is an epidemic.)


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Does she delete the messages?

How did you catch her again?

Is it possible that contact never stopped, just that there were gaps between when you actually were able to catch her?

What is her status with you? Is it all about the kids? Sex? "I love you"? Affection? Time spent alone with each other? Closeness? What is your relationship like with your wife?

When it got inappropriate with other man, was it "I love you" and "I want to have sex with you" and "we will be together someday soon"?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MyTurn said:


> Sorry you are here,
> it's time to show her you mean what you say,file for divorce without
> telling her and do the 180 . This will show her that you are done with the lies and that you will not be a doormat.If she real wants this to work she will snap out of the fog .


Sadly this is probably the only thing that will wake her up at this point. You've tried NC letters, you've tried separation, you've tried just about everything else. She needs to see that this is where she loses everything. You can stop the divorce at any point but until she WANTS this marriage and more importantly WANTS you R will not work. Have you exposed this to family and friends? If not why not? Have you exposed to his family and friends? Shouldn't they know that he's breaking up a family and hurting children? Are you sure this hasn't already gone physical? That may be why its so difficult to end.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Emosapped said:


> She says I'm over reacting and if I leave over this, that I'm going to scar my kids forever. It was so difficult to be away the last time even though I saw them 3 times a week


Well, it's difficult to see that she's interested in keeping the marriage. Since she is not interested in an exclusive relationship with you, then perhaps it's time to let her go. She's then free to explore her love for the other man.

Tell her she's free to go live with him. Leave the kids here. Give her what she wants.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

What does her family and your family think of her risking her marriage and the grandkids' stability over contact with some guy she knew 20 years ago as a teenager?


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## MyTurn (Oct 27, 2013)

<<She tells me it's not romantic talk just friendship. 
I told her she forfeited her privilege for any kind of contact when they both crossed the line

She says I'm over reacting and if I leave over this, that I'm going to scar my kids forever. It was so difficult to be away the last time even though I saw them 3 times a week>>

This = I want my cake and eat it.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Sorry you're going through this.

It doesn't sound like she's going to stop. Being hyper vigilant and anxious all the time will take a toll on you. Soon enough you will develop a strong dislike/disgust/hatred toward her. You will resent her presence. 

You should probably file for divorce and get as much custody of your children as possible. The fact that she goes for long periods of time with NC just to start back up again will make it impossible for you to ever have peace. You'll always be worried that it's going to start again.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Emosapped said:


> She says I'm over reacting and if I leave over this, that I'm going to scar my kids forever. It was so difficult to be away the last time even though I saw them 3 times a week


And did you buy that line of bullsh1t?

I don't know how you handled exposure the last time, before you left, but the time has come to expose and stigmatize both of them, in my opinion. Did you save the texts and e-mails? Perhaps it's time to build a web page or Facebook page dedicated to their EA and start "shaming" both of them publicly. Sorry but she really has not suffered any consequences for her actions and has turned you to a doormat. It's time to turn the tables around and make everyone see her for what she has become.

Edit: Also, confusedFather gave you good advice, it's time to start filing and get nasty.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Where is he located? If OM is in diving distance from my home I will go have a conversation with him and put a stop to this right now.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

She uses the children to keep you tame. "You will scar them" my azz.

Goes to show what kind of a person your wife is.

Time to get nasty.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

Wow. I'm grateful for all the responses. Really.

This a**hole actually lives 3k miles away. He's in Stamford CT.
She swears that she cut all contact for 8 months and that I don't give her credit for that.

Honestly, I have no way of finding out if she uses work email to contact this guy. I caught her because she used the cell phone under a different number in the same area code. She used to be such a bad liar. It's crazy how having an emotional affair will make someone an amazing liar.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

We're in California.


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

Why did you leave and not her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Your wife needs to be told she's choosing some jerk she chats to on the internet over the welfare of her children.

If she is going to allow him to continue what he's doing you need to throw her out.

You need to confront this guy on the phone and tell him to get lost.

Do it with her in the room on a conference call. Get her parents involved as well.

Expose this train wreck waiting to happen fast.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

File for divorce. She is the one that is doing this to the kids.

Have her leave, you did not cheat. She did.

Ask her how she would feel if you had the affair. 

Do the 180, and do not contact her. Tell her to start getting rides across the country to go see lover boy.

Get her out of your life.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You simply have no credibility whatsoever. If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would be putting up with this from you.

She sends him money? Unbelievable. How many more times does she she need to humiliate and disrespect you. My guess is that she sees you as a nice guy and that you are all bark and no bite.
There seems to be very little consequences to her actions. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

The fact that you have constantly moved out and then back in with her and she still continues this disrespectful behavior says a great deal where her priority lies. She simply does not believe you.

By slapping her with divorce papers it will hopefully produce such a wake up call that she gets her head out of her butt. Otherwise nothing is going to change. Her stating he is just a friend is ludicrous. Her willingness to destroy her marriage over this and her total disrespect for you says it all. IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

@ Movinon ....I actually left for my own sanity. I didn't want to be around her and the kids are really attached to her. We were arguing constantly even in front of the kids. So I had to remove myself from that situation.


The emotional connection is strained. Sex and affection are very rare. She doesn't say I love you. But then again, neither do I.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> This has been a crazy ride to say the least. First of all I'd like to thank the people on this forum. I've learned a lot about EA's and the insidious nature their effects on marriage. I'd like to offer some background info:
> 
> Been married 13 years, two children, ages 7 and 4
> 
> ...


My first recommendation is not legal, so I will not go there on here.

Recommendation #2
You can VAR the conversation where he accepts your offer to get paid to go away. 
Of course give him nothing, but it would be fun to have that on record to play for her.

Seriously, is there any real way to lift her out of this fog. She truly seems to enjoy it. She has no respect for you.
She needs to go away. So make that happen. There is no happiness for you with her.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Recommendation #2
> You can VAR the conversation where he accepts your offer to get paid to go away.
> Of course give him nothing, but it would be fun to have that on record to play for her.


Offer to pay the guy to leave your wife alone?

That's just silly.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> Thanks. Inland and Allen.
> 
> Yes OM is single.
> 
> ...


 And your reply should be to her, "Next time anyone leaves, it's going to be you along with all your belongings and you'll here the details about the divorce from my attorney".

There is no reason for you to leave. Your not the one creating this mess. She is. She has to be held accountable for her actions and by you leaving doesn't do squat. Let her feel the wrath of her inexcusable behavior. She's a liar and a cheat. Let her see what it's like to have to find another place to live BY HERSELF and not being able to be with her children.

She know that your Achilles heel is your kids and you can bet your ass it's her's too. IMO, I would seek an attorney about divorce and have her served at work, let the families know. If the OM has a wife, fill her in on what's going on and box her ass in to the point that she has no wiggle room. if she decides to pull her head out of her ass and start acting like a responsible wife and mother you can stop the divorce.

This has happened 5 times so far and 2 NC letters and she continues so what is it that makes you want to keep her around. She lies like a rug and it's apparent you cant trust her as far as you can throw her so why do you want to put up with this.

If your only keeping this marriage going for the kids, then you better realize that kids can and have survived broken marriages just as long as the parents are there for them. It's a lot harder for them to live in a broken marriage.

Time for you to take the gloves off and start playing hard ball with her. it's the only thing she will understand.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Offer to pay the guy to leave your wife alone?
> 
> That's just silly.


Not when he accepts the offer


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

6301 said:


> And your reply should be to her, "Next time anyone leaves, it's going to be you along with all your belongings and you'll here the details about the divorce from my attorney".
> 
> There is no reason for you to leave. Your not the one creating this mess. She is. She has to be held accountable for her actions and by you leaving doesn't do squat. Let her feel the wrath of her inexcusable behavior. She's a liar and a cheat. Let her see what it's like to have to find another place to live BY HERSELF and not being able to be with her children.


Except for the minor detail that he has no legal right to force her out of her home, at least in most jurisdictions.

In fact, by him leaving and finding an alternative residence for 8 months and her presumably being the primary caregiver, she'd have a strong case to evict HIM.

It's a typical scenario. Wife cheats on loyal, faithful hard working husband. They separate and divorce, he gets booted from his home while cheating wife stays home with the kids and lives off the support, sometimes to add insult to injury the other man moves into the betrayed husband's former home and cuts the grass using his mower and becomes a surrogate father to his kids and actually sees them more than dad does.



nogutsnoglory said:


> Not when he accepts the offer


And then ultimately says he knew it wasn't a real offer and was just playing along. 

Its a pointless, meaningless, almost pathetic gesture. Wife and OM will laugh at the idea that BS tried to pay the guy to go away.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Offer to pay the guy to leave your wife alone?
> 
> That's just silly.


Lenzi the point is to incriminate him and reveal who he is to his wife, not to pay the guy.

Did you not read the post?


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

The writing is on the wall. It's always the case that the person affected most is the last one to see reality. I know what I have to do. It's just so difficult. I have to grow a pair and just file. Enough is enough. Thanks for your time. All of you folks are great for taking the time to reply


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

You may find that filing for a divorce will shock your wife into some reality. That does sometimes happen... but you do have to file and mean it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well at least she is working also so you won't get totally screwed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your wife is very, very selfish.

She doesn't care if she causes you pain. If she loved you truly, she would not want to cause you such pain. It doesn't matter whether she thinks he's a 'friend' or not. What matters is that one human being shouldn't knowingly inflict this on another human being, most especially someone specially selected as a life partner.

You have to decide: Either you will continue to live with her emotional abuse and selfishness & you stay full-time with your children, or you stop acquiescing in her selfishness and resign yourself to being a divorced dad with shared custody.

I would be done at this point if I were you. She thinks she has an inherent right to pursue her 'friendship' no matter the emotional cost to you. That's not OK.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

It is foolish to do the same thing over and over (keep giving her chances) and expect a different outcome.

She is not going to give this guy up. She will always reconnect with him sooner or latter. She has no respect for you or the marriage or your kids for that matter. 

Do not let her use the kids to blackmail you into staying. The kids will do fine if they have a strong, honest, self confident father. You cannot be the best father to your children while being emotionally attacked and stressed by her. 

Time to end this for the sake of your children and yourself.

She is a lost cause - divorce.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Except for the minor detail that he has no legal right to force her out of her home, at least in most jurisdictions.
> 
> In fact, by him leaving and finding an alternative residence for 8 months and her presumably being the primary caregiver, she'd have a strong case to evict HIM.
> 
> It's a typical scenario. Wife cheats on loyal, faithful hard working husband. They separate and divorce, he gets booted from his home while cheating wife stays home with the kids and lives off the support, sometimes to add insult to injury the other man moves into the betrayed husband's former home and cuts the grass using his mower and becomes a surrogate father to his kids and actually sees them more than dad does.


 Maybe not but I'll bet the house that it would scare the hell out of her. She also works so in fact their both primary caregivers. The problem is she wants both words and by taking one away she either has to fish or cut bait.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> Your wife needs to be told she's choosing some jerk she chats to on the internet over the welfare of her children.
> 
> If she is going to allow him to continue what he's doing you need to throw her out.
> 
> ...


Combine this with a hard 180 and you might be able to salvage your marriage. Also, file for divorce, as Alan recommended, for as a real wake up call for her.

But only if you think you will regain her trust. You said she claims you don't give her credit for going NC for 8 months. It's the fact that she went NC for 8 months then contacted the POS again that is so horrible. This is what will haunt you if you try to R; you'll be thinking when will she start again.

Since you said the marriage is mostly sexless and affectionless it may not be worth it to try and R. If those things change as well as true NC, that's the only way I see it working.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Filing is good but if you want to see if reconciliation is a possibility then filing while simultaneously exposing is even better. If you just file she might just get stubborn and tell everyone that its your fault. If you expose then she can't shift the blame onto you and others may be able to bring her to her senses.

If you want to expose just say this "We are divorcing because my wife has professed her love for another man. I've seen the conversations and she refuses to break contact with her lover. I cannot be in a marriage that has more than two people in it."

Then if anyone asks for more detail just tell them to talk to your wife.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Did you expose the affair? No transparency, no remorse, no sex, no ILY means the affair just went underground...she just got sloppy and got caught with the call. Expose to all that will hold her accountable!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

I exposed this two months in. The family knows what's going on. Though many of them don't understand what an EA is. They think as long as no PA happened, then it's not real cheating. This guy and my wife promised they'd end contact. Honestly, I don't think they've ever fully stopped. They may have taken months off, but it has never stopped. 

What hurts the most is not even the EA anymore. What's hurts is that she can't stop. She cries, and says she tries everyday. But she hasn't stopped.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

You are dealing with two liars who have no regard for your feelings. Your so called wife is not doing anything to help this get better. So far you haven't given her any real consequences at all for continuing. Saying he has "no one else" but she can't stop? Even if she were to magically snap out of this fog, your marriage needs major work. She doesn't sound like she is up to the challenge.

Sorry, you won't scar your children by showing them you have self respect. She is a manipulator and you have been enabling her. At least you now know that she does not value your marriage at all. 

You need to start a 180 please read up on that. You should have been doing that long ago but its not to late for you to wake up an extract yourself from this mess.

Good luck, she's not worth fighting for. Sorry.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> What hurts the most is not even the EA anymore. What's hurts is that she can't stop. She cries, and says she tries everyday. But she hasn't stopped.


Then she's gone....sorry. You know what you must do to save yourself more heartache.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

While you were separated for 8 months did you date?

Have you resumed sexual relations with your
wife?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

It never stopped for months. Maybe it stopped for weeks. Maybe one week. Maybe a couple of days. But there hasn't been a month that went by without them being in contact.

I am guessing here, but it is an educated guess based on your posts, your wife's behavior, my personal experience, and the threads here. My guess is that deep down your wife believes this other guy is her star-crossed soul mate, that they are destined to be together, that she made a mistake by not accepting his advances in high school, if only she had then she would be married to him now, and that is really what her life was meant to be. She really truly believes this.

"Just a friend" who she stays in touch with because "he has no one else"? No, not just a friend, you don't risk your marriage, your reputation with your family, the stability of your children's home - AN 8-MONTH SEPARATION FROM YOUR HUSBAND - for just a "friend" from 20 years ago, just because he "has no one else." There are a lot of people in dire straits, in need of help, and a lot closer to your home, yet she is not all that concerned with them.

You know the truth.

You have done pretty much all you can do. You exposed. You separated. There is only one thing left. Divorce and let her go. Send her to him. She must find out for herself that other man is NOT her soul mate. Other man is not who she has built him up into in her mind. When she goes to him and lives the reality, then she will want to come back to you, then she will be telling you how much she loves you, then she will be begging for a another chance. Problem is, you probably won't want her back at that point. By that time, your give-a-sh1t will be broken.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


The only problem I see with this otherwise very well written piece, is that the poor guy who was cheated on, who was the breadwinner, is very likely to end up living in a small apartment or on the couch of a relative, enjoying very limited visitation with his children, who live in the former marital home with the cheating wife, while paying most of his disposable income in support and helplessly watching while some other guy moves in and replaces him. Or, conversely a woman who was cheated on who gave up a career to raise children, who is left with little to nothing to live on because the cheating husband is a loser who hides income or otherwise finds a way to get out of supporting her (and any minor children). 

Sometimes it's more complicated than "I love you so go have a great life".


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

lenzi said:


> The only problem I see with this otherwise very well written piece, is that* the poor guy who was cheated on, who was the breadwinner, is very likely to end up living in a small apartment or on the couch of a relative, enjoying very limited visitation with his children, while paying most of his disposable income in support and helplessly watching while some other guy moves in and replaces him*.
> 
> Sometimes it's more complicated than "I love you so go have a great life".


An attorney should be able to tell him how the finances will break down and the custody likely will play out.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Wife violated No Contact with EA partner again after 8 months*



lenzi said:


> The only problem I see with this otherwise very well written piece, is that the poor guy who was cheated on, who was the breadwinner, is very likely to end up living in a small apartment or on the couch of a relative, enjoying very limited visitation with his children, who live in the former marital home with the cheating wife, while paying most of his disposable income in support and helplessly watching while some other guy moves in and replaces him. Or, conversely a woman who was cheated on who gave up a career to raise children, who is left with little to nothing to live on because the cheating husband is a loser who hides income or otherwise finds a way to get out of supporting her (and any minor children).
> 
> Sometimes it's more complicated than "I love you so go have a great life".


And the alternative is to stay with a cheating spouse in a one way open marriage? I don't see that as much of an alternative.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

bfree said:


> And the alternative is to stay with a cheating spouse in a one way open marriage? I don't see that as much of an alternative.


Me neither. I'm just saying it's not as simple as saying "If you love them let them go, and you will both live happily ever after".

Sometimes both alternatives suck big time.

When you get married you are putting yourself totally at the mercy of a person you don't really know as well as you really think you do. Marriage is a financial, contractual agreement, by exchanging vows and rings and signing on the dotted line you are giving all of the power to your spouse and the courts. And you never, ever know what another person might do. 

Spoken by a man who has been married and given the shaft once, and will never, ever put himself in that position again and can't fathom why anyone else who has been through it ever would.




Will_Kane said:


> An attorney should be able to tell him how the finances will break down and the custody likely will play out.


Sure. But so what? Consulting with an attorney and getting the bad news doesn't change anything. Just tells the poor betrayed partner how badly they're going to get screwed.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

Again, thanks to all of you and the person that advised the 180 thanks @Will... Thanks for the Letting Go piece
A few more questions.

How do you break away from such a manipulating individual that you're in love with?

This has been the pattern, I threaten to leave, she cries, says she's sorry, we have amazing make-up sex. All is well for a few days and the distance/monotony/betrayal cycle happens again. 

I'm such a sucker for her BS


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

lenzi said:


> The only problem I see with this otherwise very well written piece, is that the poor guy who was cheated on, who was the breadwinner, is very likely to end up living in a small apartment or on the couch of a relative, enjoying very limited visitation with his children, who live in the former marital home with the cheating wife, while paying most of his disposable income in support and helplessly watching while some other guy moves in and replaces him. Or, conversely a woman who was cheated on who gave up a career to raise children, who is left with little to nothing to live on because the cheating husband is a loser who hides income or otherwise finds a way to get out of supporting her (and any minor children).
> 
> Sometimes it's more complicated than "I love you so go have a great life".


It's ALWAYS more complicated than "I love you so go have a great life." But it is not so complicated that someone cannot weigh the options and choose what they believe is the best choice. Just let them go is one choice. Stay married and eat the sh1t sandwich is another. Divorcing and coming out on top financially is a very real possibility. Please don't start telling me what is likely and not likely based on your own experience, as I have my own experience, also, and we will just disagree.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

Does letting go have to mean encouraging her to continue her EA, or can I just cut all contact that's not child focused?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Emosapped, stop having sex with her first off... She's just using that to mess with your head.

Both of you need to handle the situation like adults, and "amazing make-up sex" is not an adult solution to this, particularly given there are children involved.

Sex is not going to solve this, whether it's you or OM, put the sex off the table for BOTH of you until this is resolved in an adult manner.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> Does letting go have to mean encouraging her to continue her EA, or can I just cut all contact that's not child focused?


Cut all contact that is not custody or parent related.

I would strongly suggest you hold a conference call with your wife's family members and OM and tell him to get lost with her family there to witness the call.

If he knows you are shaming him to her whole family he may realize his long term days are now numbered and he may back off.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> Again, thanks to all of you and the person that advised the 180 thanks @Will... Thanks for the Letting Go piece
> A few more questions.
> 
> How do you break away from such a manipulating individual that you're in love with?
> ...


By doing the 180!!! Take the focus off her and redirect it to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

She is trying to maintain the stasis of her cake-eating behavior. She is walking on the razor's edge here...and her stupidity in thinking that she could maintain contact with this man...even after already been through an 8 mos separatation shows that she never dealt with the problem...believes you are the one that has the problem. Complete picture of immaturity here...and in total denial about the destruction she had caused.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Emosapped said:


> How do you break away from such a manipulating individual that you're in love with?
> 
> This has been the pattern, I threaten to leave, she cries, says she's sorry, we have amazing make-up sex. All is well for a few days and the distance/monotony/betrayal cycle happens again.
> 
> I'm such a sucker for her BS





Emosapped said:


> Started as let's catch up, ended up with thousands of texts, hours of phone calls, *gifts and money sent*. From her to him. And professed feelings from both



Why is she sending him money?

Given what you have written, it appears she's really into him.

Looks like she's even paying him to stay interested.

You cant be in love with someone who's really interested in another. It'll sap your soul.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Emosapped said:


> Again, thanks to all of you and the person that advised the 180 thanks @Will... Thanks for the Letting Go piece
> A few more questions.
> 
> *How do you break away from such a manipulating individual that you're in love with?*
> ...


That is your weakness. She can only manipulate her if you let her. If you let her hurt you enough, you will reach the point where you will leave. Certainly it's much easier to leave if she is completely unrepentant in both word and deed. She is repentant in word, but not in deed.

I would hate to see your marriage break up over her gullibility in believing that some guy she hasn't seen in 20 years is the thing she needs to be happy.

At the heart of this, there probably is something missing in your marriage. You mention "monotony." A lot of marriages, especially after having kids, go stale. Become routine. You know, when you first met, you didn't have kids and it was all about each other, and you probably came on hot and heavy romancing her. Then you moved to the next stage, had kids, and it became all about the kids. You started to take each other for granted. Then along comes other man and he starts courting her like you did pre-marriage, and all of a sudden she starts questioning her relationship with you, thinking you are more like roommates or friends with benefits and other man is her romantic partner.

She compares you to other man, he hasn't seen her in 20 years and still is hot for her, meanwhile you seem to just treat her like a business partner in the business of raising children and running a household. That's how it starts. Maybe this is not your case, but if it is, if there are other issues in your marriage, then it is not enough for you just to give her the stop-all-contact or else ultimatum, it is not enough to just have hot make-up sex for a few days, it has to be a lifestyle change, where you start going on date nights, getting some time together, and you maybe go away for a few weekends now and then just the two of you. Also, each day, you be more romantic with each other, not just after the kids are in bed at night, but throughout the day, when you leave for work in the morning, when you message each other during the day.

Of course, she has to end contact with other man, but she has to replace it with contact with you. So if she sincerely goes through a stage where she tries to give up other man, you have to help her, too. If you think she is not sincere in trying to give up other man, and has no intention to give him up, and is just giving you lip service, then it's a different story.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

@WillKane
You pretty much summed up exactly the disconnect that has occurred here. The biggest problem is that it's impossible to reconnect when she's secretly mourning the loss of this EA. She must see for herself that this a**hole doesn't give a s*it about her. His own ego and emotional needs are being serviced, at the cost of her marriage


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Wife violated No Contact with EA partner again after 8 months*



Emosapped said:


> @WillKane
> You pretty much summed up exactly the disconnect that has occurred here. The biggest problem is that it's impossible to reconnect when she's secretly mourning the loss of this EA. She must see for herself that this a**hole doesn't give a s*it about her. His own ego and emotional needs are being serviced, at the cost of her marriage


Did you expose the affair to HIS family and friends? Did you put him on Cheaterville? Did you make his participation in this affair unpalatable? If you do that chances are likely he will drop your wife and throw her under the bus.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> Does letting go have to mean encouraging her to continue her EA, or can I just cut all contact that's not child focused?


The whole point of letting go is to send the message: "I do not need you." That's not to say you don't care for her or want a life with her, but it takes away her most potent weapon, which is that you will put up with anything to avoid the end of the marriage.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

I have no idea about this guys family and friends. He lives in Connecticut and he works two jobs and has a daughter he hasn't seen in 5 years because his ex wife left him. I think he's a deadbeat that preys on women. My wife is under his spell. I'm sure she's not the only one


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It looks to me like you have two choices here: file for divorce and see if she snaps out of it or just accept that she's going to do what she wants (which she is). Chasing and nagging her is only going to make you sick and not accomplish anything. If anything it makes you look weak and less attractive because you bark but have no bite. Besides, if your wife respected you and the marriage she'd cut him off the minute you asked, so the fact that she's called your bluff says a lot about what she thinks of you and the marriage. Sorry, it really sucks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Emosapped said:


> I have no idea about this guys family and friends. He lives in Connecticut and he works two jobs and has a daughter he hasn't seen in 5 years because his ex wife left him. I think he's a deadbeat that preys on women. My wife is under his spell. I'm sure she's not the only one


Find out where he works, put him on Cheaterville and anonymously send the link to his boss and human resources.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

180 does not mean you encourage her EA. It means that you make it plain that you can survive and have a happy life without her. Hard to do I know. But when start acting like a self confident man who will not tolerate a wife who is more concerned about the feelings and needs of some man more than 2,000 miles away than she is about the well being of her own kids, husband and family, she may snap out of it. You have to show her you are serious about ending the marriage. Do not let fear hold you back. You will mourn the death of your marriage for a while. But always remember that you did what you could to save it. Your wife is the one who killed your marriage and continues to dig the hole deeper.

You have given her the "him or me" speech and left for eight months. Now it is time to be a man of your word and file for divorce since she can not get over him and continues to be drawn back in. No self respecting man would tolerate this behavior time after time.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Emosapped said:


> I have no idea about this guys family and friends. He lives in Connecticut and he works two jobs and has a daughter he hasn't seen in 5 years because his ex wife left him. I think he's a deadbeat that preys on women. My wife is under his spell. I'm sure she's not the only one


Look and see if he has a Facebook account. Check your WW's browsing history as well to see if anything pops up there.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Start with the 180 as advised. This will help you detach and the 'in love' feeling that is warring with your rational self will start to wane. 

This is the problem with 'being in love' with someone who is not good for us. It overrides good sense and we know it but feel that we can't help ourselves.

We can help ourselves, though. It is just hard and painful. The 180 helps to retrain you so that you are more and more able to do what you know is healthy for yourself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> ...because this guy supposedly has no one.


*NEWSFLASH!!!*

*That is no concern of your wife!*


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Sit down with her and read "Not Just Friends" together.

If she walks away, she can sign the divorce papers before she leaves the room.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife violated No Contact with EA partner again after 8 months*



Emosapped said:


> I exposed this two months in. The family knows what's going on. Though many of them don't understand what an EA is. They think as long as no PA happened, then it's not real cheating. This guy and my wife promised they'd end contact. Honestly, I don't think they've ever fully stopped. They may have taken months off, but it has never stopped.
> 
> What hurts the most is not even the EA anymore. What's hurts is that she can't stop. She cries, and says she tries everyday. But she hasn't stopped.


Exactly how do you know it hasnt gone PA? Because it sounds very likely that it has. Dont you realize that distance means nothing, especially if you're in the same country? OM could have easily flown into town, stayed at a hotel, then your WW could have went over to bang him!


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> Again, thanks to all of you and the person that advised the 180 thanks @Will... Thanks for the Letting Go piece
> A few more questions.
> 
> How do you break away from such a manipulating individual that you're in love with?
> ...


 Yes you are and that's why your suffering needlessly! She sheds a few tears and no doubt she has an onion hidden in her purse to bring on the tears and then throws you pity sex with a bunch of lies and your good for another couple of months while she continues. The when you get pissed again, the onion come out, the pants come off and once again your at square one. Your like Pavlov's dog with her and she know it. She has this routine down to a science friend and you keep falling for it.

File for a divorce. let her know that her routine has run it's course and let her feel the pain for a change. She wants the security of a marriage and the freedom of a single woman. Reality check. Can't have both yet your giving her the best of both worlds. 

Your the only one that can do something about this and until you wake up and smell the roses you in for a real lousy life and you have no one to blame but yourself.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

OK, so, her family knows. why on earth are you getting into a debate with them about what cheating entails?

Just invite them to confront him along with you so that this won't go somewhere unhealthy for the two of you.

Don't get hung up on the word cheating. All they need to realize is that she's gotten involved with this guy to the point where she will put her marriage and children into divorce to keep up contact with the guy.

Surely her family will agree that's not a good thing?

The guy is causing a lot of trouble. That's all they need to acknowledge.

Are they willing to watch a short video that may help educate them?


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

My XW actually had a PA. 
But she displayed actual remorse for it, and tried to make it up. 
And because she was such an excellent wife before the affair, and her remorse, and my love for her, helped me eventually try and reconcile. And we would probably still be married today. 

But she got a little email from the OM around this time last year. All I knew was that I hadn't been told about it. I didn't care why, I didn't want to know. I didn't ask for her reasons, or her excuses, I divorced. 
I told her that if he ever contacted her and she didn't tell me, I would divorce her. I didn't care if it killed me, I would divorce her. And I did. 

Your wife is dumb enough to think she can live in this fantasy. 
Want to know the best way to shatter the fantasy? It is called filing for divorce. 
And it is what you need to do. After this last email, you should have already called a lawyer.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Can you explain what this part means : 



> Started as let's catch up, ended up with thousands of texts, hours of phone calls, gifts and money sent. From her to him. And *professed feelings from both*


Do you have that email or proof?

By "professed feelings" you mean she's exchanging "i love you's" with the guy?

You show this to her family and they don't think anything of that?

Seriously?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Haven't been compelled to post in awhile, but man, do I relate to this issue you are having.

As background, my wife had a 20 year friendship with a guy that was "harmless" until 2011. Then they fell in love. I caught it, they didn't speak for 1 year, then my wife broke NC. They were emailing often for 6 months until I caught it the 2nd time. The lies were unbearable.

I flat out told her, eventually (after stupidly trying to let them have email communication I could read), that if she refused to go NC with him I would leave her. Said it plain as day, as simply and as serious as I could. She believed me. 

We've done pretty well since. I scared the living sh&t out of her. That's your only play if you want to keep the marriage. Otherwise, she may already be a lost cause and you need to file.

It's very hard to break an EA like this. Friends since they were kids - developed into love while you are married to her. I totally have been there. It took time and intense fear to break her. And even now, there is probably a 10% chance she found some other hidden way to communicate with him. I'll never know for sure and neither will you. It took 2 1/2 years for me to lose the urge for hypervigilence. It was very freeing. Never thought I would get there, but it finally happened a couple of months ago.

Good luck.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Haven't been compelled to post in awhile, but man, do I relate to this issue you are having.
> 
> As background, my wife had a 20 year friendship with a guy that was "harmless" until 2011. Then they fell in love. I caught it, they didn't speak for 1 year, then my wife broke NC. They were emailing often for 6 months until I caught it the 2nd time. The lies were unbearable.
> 
> ...


Nice work, Gabe. Your experience has some similarities to mine, and shows how these friendships, even when they are actually innocent, are in fact ticking time bombs.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Emosapped said:


> @WillKane
> You pretty much summed up exactly the disconnect that has occurred here. The biggest problem is that it's impossible to reconnect when she's secretly mourning the loss of this EA. She must see for herself that this a**hole doesn't give a s*it about her. His own ego and emotional needs are being serviced, at the cost of her marriage


Then something along the lines of "just let her go" sounds like it might be your best approach.

It is good that you are coming clearer on what needs to be done and where you stand. There is only so much advice we can give, hopefully we help you to see this thing from various angles and then you can decide what is the best way to attack this thing.

If she is so far into it that you can't get through to her, if she is harboring resentment toward you because of you "forcing" her to give up her friend, if you have had enough of the "cycle," that you've been on, then it might be time to try something different.

Problem is, sometimes the way to deal with these things is counterintuitive. Definitely, being nicer doesn't work. Time and time again, if you look at the threads on this forum, you will see you can't nice them out of the affair. By the same token, being nasty doesn't work, either. If you can start to detach, and move on with an air of peace and confidence that you will be OK with or without her, you will start to feel a lot better about the situation, you will feel more in control of your own destiny, no matter what she does. 

Detach from her. Be pleasant, but keep it superficial. Like you are talking to an acquaintance who you are not very emotionally invested in. Talk to her only about the kids and essential household issues. Let her know you have had enough, you are moving on, if she wants to come back, she knows what she has to do, but you offer no guarantees that you will be willing to take her back.

If you want to, for effect, call up other man in front of her and tell him, you've won, she's yours, I will be buying her a ticket for the plane as soon as she's ready, and packing her off to you with all her baggage. Tell her, go ahead, pack your bags, I'll buy the ticket, if you want other man so much, if I mean that little to you that you are willing to throw the marriage away for him, you should go and be with him. I have no interest in staying married to a woman who is not in love with me. If you are in love with him and not me, go be with him and leave me to find someone better than you. I hear from my single and divorced friends that good loyal men are in short supply and there is high demand, I should be able to find someone better than you within six months.

Don't make threats you are not willing to follow through on. Try to control your temper. You may notice after a few days of you doing what we call the "180," she may act out and try to get you to react angrily. Often times, the cheater who has been caught but still wants to continue the affair develops a teenager mindset, and looks at their spouse who is trying to impose limits as the parent who they are rebelling against. If that happens, try not to react.

See an attorney. Find out what your options are. See if there is anything you should do to solidify your position financially or custody-wise before filing for divorce.

The one thing that jumped out at me about your particular situation is that she let you leave the house for 8 MONTHS - that's a long time and shows a great level of detachment from you just to keep in touch with a guy who she just got back in touch with a couple of years ago and hasn't met in 20 years.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Haven't been compelled to post in awhile, but man, do I relate to this issue you are having.
> 
> As background, my wife had a 20 year friendship with a guy that was "harmless" until 2011. Then they fell in love. I caught it, they didn't speak for 1 year, then my wife broke NC. They were emailing often for 6 months until I caught it the 2nd time. The lies were unbearable.
> 
> ...


Stories like this are invaluable to you Emosapped. Others have been down your path before, they have done things that you have done so far, with the same results, and they are telling you what works and what doesn't.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

Wow Gabe. Thanks for sharing your story. I just don't trust her at all. I should have done what you did a year ago. It's scary how someone can have such a hold on a person. Uneffingbelievable
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

Thanks WillKane. The info and insight you've provided is priceless
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Emo, I'm going to whack you a little, because... well you deserve to be whacked. 

Your wife reestablished contact because she never experienced any consequences the first time around. 

1) YOU moved out of the home. Huh? :scratchhead: Why should you have done that? Because that's what betrayed men in the movies do? During that time was she having a physical affair with the other man? Did she ever once beg you to come home? 

She is the one who should have left, and she should be the one to leave now. 

2) She never expressed true remorse. She probably said "sorry" , and you accepted that and gave her forgiveness without her asking for it or doing anything to deserve it. 

3) You essentially moved back so she could resume her comfortable lifestyle at your expense. 

It is no wonder she has no respect or love for you. 

Sorry friend, but you blew it. I'm not going to blow sunshine and warm fuzzy feelings up your skirt like some here are doing. Until you get mean and determined, and start standing up for your rights as a husband, she will continue to walk all over you. 

Read _*No More MR. Nice Guy*_. Read it, apply it, live it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You seem to know very little about the other man.

Google his name and locale. Check his phone number on sites like spokeo.com.

Where did you get what information you have on him? If your wife is the source, none of it may be true. For example, does his area code corespond with CT?

How have you verified he is divorced? Spokeo may help with that? Spokeo sometimes lists close relatives. Criminal record? 

Why didn't you insist on total transparency on her phone, emails, texts facebook etc.?

Instead of moving out, put the house up for sale and do the 180

Download the two books linked to below.

Download the free version of NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY. Google it. I don't have the link on my Nook.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

1st no matter what stay in your home---in calif--in a D settlement--you will get your butt kicked in a courtroom for ABANDONMENT---so no more away from the home

In fact you might kick her out--tho she has a complete right to stay in the home---kick HER OUT OF THE MARITAL BEDROOM--put her and all her belongings, in a small room somewhere in the house.

You MUST stop being nice---you have to threaten or file for D

Let everyone including your kids know what is going on---in fact tell her since she refuses to stop her EA---you are going to file, and you and her need to tell the kids, what is gonna happen to them---that being, that from now on they will live in split homes, and go back and for the every 3 or 4 days---and they just might lose their friends, over all of this

Let your wife know you are going to an atty---do the free consult---but when you come home leave the blank Calif D packet on the table where your wife can find it---same with the blank custody packet---You can find those packets on line under c=Calif legal documents---PRINT THEM OUT---If that doesn't wake her up---then your mge has no hope---and you might just tell her---to get out and go be with him in Conn

Take all marital finances---put them in an acct---with your name only on the acct---cancel ALL of her CC's---see if she is able to get new ones on her own----tell her from this day forward---she is responsible for half of each an every bill your mge. incurs---that to include--mtg payment, car payment, all insurances---all property taxes---all utilities, and everything having to do with living necessities

Tell her family since she won't stop her EA---you are going to be forced to file for D

You will get nowhere till you bring the big guns into play----STOP BEING NICE---do NOT do a 180---go completely DARK ON HER---Converse only if it is necessary for day to day living, or has to do with kids----do not TOUCH her physically

Basically your mge, is shot----and at this point you are trying to shove REALITY DOWN HER THROAT---if she does not accept what you are doing---filing for D---is what MUST BE DONE


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## MyTurn (Oct 27, 2013)

<<@WillKane
You pretty much summed up exactly the disconnect that has occurred here. The biggest problem is that it's impossible to reconnect when she's secretly mourning the loss of this EA. She must see for herself that this a**hole doesn't give a s*it about her. His own ego and emotional needs are being serviced, at the cost of her marriage>>

The problem is that she isn't mourning the loss of the EA ,she is stil in the EA.You on the other hand are still in love with your wife as you knew her,but she isn't that wife any more.Once you convince your self that she is no longer your wife but someone who looks,talks and walks like your wife , then you will be able to do the wright things to protect you and your family.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Bfree is right. Play the cards hard and OM will fold. Play with uncertainty and the BS will not end.

You can have sex but don't cuddle her afterwards. Don't tell you love her.just say it was great.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

OP you are getting a ton of great, consistent advice here.

As we all said, your mistake was in not having actual consequences for her actions in the past. I think it's crystal clear that you need to ratchet up the consequences this time, and mean it.

Remember that divorces take time - filing doesn't by any means require you to go through with it in the end. But you should file with the resolution that it is already over, and have a very short and specific list of things that she can do to get you to withdraw your petition.

When you first come here, the advice can feel like you are trying to drink the ocean with a teaspoon. Most of us have been where you are already, even if the specifics are different. Stay long enough, though, and you'll see patterns in these stories. 

For most of us, the only way the affairs ended, no matter how the marriage finally resolved itself, was by giving our spouses their final, real choice: the AP or me. When we take control of the situation (though not our partner's final choice - we can't control that), and reduce the entire affair (and all of the justifications and rationalizations that come with it) down to a simple binary decision that our WS is finally forced to make, that is when the affair dies.

In some cases, the spouse chooses the AP, and there is nothing you can do about it except move on, as painful as that process is. The 180 is for that purpose. Do it! It's not a ploy to keep your wife hanging on - it is a way to begin to become just YOU again after a long time of being "US".

Affairs are not games. They are life- and family-altering exercises in bad character, poor boundaries and selfishness. Games do not have real life consequences, which is why your wife still sees this as harmless. There MUST be consequences in the real world to shatter that illusion.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

jnj express said:


> 1st no matter what stay in your home---in calif--in a D settlement--you will get your butt kicked in a courtroom for ABANDONMENT---so no more away from the home
> 
> In fact you might kick her out--tho she has a complete right to stay in the home---kick HER OUT OF THE MARITAL BEDROOM--put her and all her belongings, in a small room somewhere in the house.
> 
> ...


You have a detailed action plan above. Start today!

Well done JE! :smthumbup:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Be sure to explain to her that she knew you would divorce her if she did not go NC and continued her adultery. Do not pull your punches, make her feel her decisions are real. Tell her when she made contact it was the same thing as choosing him over her family and you. Tell her that what she chose was divorce, it wasn't your choice its all on her.

Any time you talk about it, keep repeating that she picked divorce not you. Do not let her deny it, make her own it. When talking to friends and family about it keep referring to the situation as her wanting to be divorced.

Have you been able to get a picture of him off facebook or anywhere else? It helps a lot when you put him on CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know which , by the way, is your strongest club right now. Be sure to send him the link and let him know how it comes up anytime his name is googled.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I still think some effort to educate her family about the threat this relationship poses would help. There are a lot of great videos on youtube that are less than 20 mins long that they could learn a lot from. Getting her family supporting you will make a huge difference. And when they support you, that gets them against OM.

If he knows her whole family already hates him he won't want anything to do with her.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Philat said:


> Nice work, Gabe. Your experience has some similarities to mine, and shows how these friendships, even when they are actually innocent, are in fact ticking time bombs.


They absolutely are. Time bomb is a great analogy. I had a talk with a single male friend of mine that has several close female friends. He said that once he gets married, he plans on maintaining those friendships, but only in group settings. No more 1-on-1 outings, etc. This is the right play.

In emosnapped's case, the OM is on the other side of the country. So the 1-on-1 time is done via email, phone, etc. There are so many ways. What makes his (and mine) so hard is they were friends BEFORE she met emosnapped. So she feels she has a right to keep it. If they could be just friends before, they should be able to do so now. But once you cross the line, you can NEVER go back. Ever. This is a lesson some people can't learn.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> Any time you talk about it, keep repeating that she picked divorce not you. Do not let her deny it, make her own it. When talking to friends and family about it keep referring to the situation as her wanting to be divorced.


This. My wife did this too. She said I was the one deciding to break up the family over her "friendship" that was back to being just a friendship and nothing more.

Don't believe this garbage. You have to keep it very simple. You have to say that every marriage needs mutual respect and she is disrespecting you in the worst way a wife can. No marriage can exist this way, and she is the cause, not you.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> *NEWSFLASH!!!*
> 
> *That is no concern of your wife!*


This could not be more true. IT's very common in these kinds of EAs for a part of the issue to be about her sympathy for the OM. 

"He doesn't have anybody, he's my friend and is all alone. Blah Blah Blah" This is another thing I had to deal with as my wife's OM was/is also single.

It's a lot harder to deal with a single OM. There is no OMW to deal with to help you. Frankly, in a case like this 100% of the effort has to be with your wife. Not much you can do to a single OM 2,500 miles away. And really, who cares? If you wife won't play ball you are screwed no matter what you do to the OM.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Emosapped said:


> She must see for herself that this a**hole doesn't give a s*it about her. His own ego and emotional needs are being serviced, at the cost of her marriage


Wrong. All you're saying here is that she didn't find the right other man. The problem is that she should not care about any man enough to jeopardize her marriage. He may be a morally bankrupt scumbag, but your wife is the problem. He is a symptom. Now it could be that without him she might never have crossed the line, but it's too late to go back. She is now untrustworthy and you will always wonder if she is lying or not. She exposed her poor character and you can't "un-know" what you now do. 

I'll never understand these "me or him" situations. The minute my wife gets involved inappropriately with another man, the die is cast. We will be done. She already knows what is acceptable and what is not. If there is ever another man to choose, the choice has been made.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

zookeeper said:


> Wrong. All you're saying here is that she didn't find the right other man. The problem is that she should not care about any man enough to jeopardize her marriage. He may be a morally bankrupt scumbag, but your wife is the problem. He is a symptom. Now it could be that without him she might never have crossed the line, but it's too late to go back. She is now untrustworthy and you will always wonder if she is lying or not. She exposed her poor character and you can't "un-know" what you now do.
> 
> I'll never understand these "me or him" situations. The minute my wife gets involved inappropriately with another man, the die is cast. We will be done. She already knows what is acceptable and what is not. If there is ever another man to choose, the choice has been made.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't buy the "symptom" argument, but the rest sounds pretty good.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> I don't buy the "symptom" argument, but the rest sounds pretty good.


The symptom part is true, but it's incomplete. There is something inherent in a person who decides to cheat, but clearly this OM has specific pull for her, given their history.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> The symptom part is true, but it's incomplete. There is something inherent in a person who decides to cheat, but clearly this OM has specific pull for her, given their history.


I understand there are problems in the marriage itself, but I don't buy this "symptom" business. Men preying on your wife's vulnerabilities is a problem itself, as is her allowing it.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> I understand there are problems in the marriage itself, but I don't buy this "symptom" business. Men preying on your wife's vulnerabilities is a problem itself, as is her allowing it.


His wife made a vow to him, not some other guy. His behavior is reprehensible, but SHE is the one who betrayed him. He is a symptom because she decided to cheat. He was a catalyst that exposed the wifes poor character. If not him it could have been any number of other men. I know it is satisfying to turn the rage on the OM, but it ignores the root of the problem. She does not value the relationship or her husband's feelings. She is selfish and immature. That's the problem to focus on.

If someone steals your car, he is the problem. The car is not complicit. A cheating wife pursues the other man. She is complicit. What is a betrayed husband going to do? Chase away every scumbag who would sleep with his wife or focus on the wife that pursues them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

zookeeper said:


> His wife made a vow to him, not some other guy. His behavior is reprehensible, but SHE is the one who betrayed him. He is a symptom because she decided to cheat. He was a catalyst that exposed the wifes poor character. If not him it could have been any number of other men. I know it is satisfying to turn the rage on the OM, but it ignores the root of the problem. She does not value the relationship or her husband's feelings. She is selfish and immature. That's the problem to focus on.
> 
> If someone steals your car, he is the problem. The car is not complicit. A cheating wife pursues the other man. She is complicit. What is a betrayed husband going to do? Chase away every scumbag who would sleep with his wife or focus on the wife that pursues them?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Going off topic and covering ground that has been trod multiple times.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Philat said:


> Going off topic and covering ground that has been trod multiple times.


Thanks for the heads up. Good thing every thread here is fresh and has never been touched on before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Philat said:


> Going off topic and covering ground that has been trod multiple times.


Yes thank you. I already have a running thread open to discuss this, and all those arguments posted have been countered already.. many many times. No need to re-hash here.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> This. My wife did this too. She said I was the one deciding to break up the family over her "friendship" that was back to being just a friendship and nothing more.
> 
> Don't believe this garbage. You have to keep it very simple. You have to say that every marriage needs mutual respect and she is disrespecting you in the worst way a wife can. No marriage can exist this way, and she is the cause, not you.


:iagree:

For me it would be no more NC letters, they don't mean a thing in your wife's case. It would be NC period. I would say to her, if there is any further contact, by any means, then I take it you want a D. If you send him a penny, then I take it that you want a D. If you text him, then I take it you want a D. If you have not already blocked him on FB, all your emails, phones, etc, then I will take that as you want a D. If you have a thought about him in your head, I will take that as you are fine with D.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

lenzi said:


> ....the poor guy who was cheated on, who was the breadwinner, is very likely to end up living in a small apartment or on the couch of a relative, enjoying very limited visitation with his children, who live in the former marital home with the cheating wife, while paying most of his disposable income in support and helplessly watching while some other guy moves in and replaces him.....


Well this guys wife works. Also, that's the wrong way to look at it. There is more to life than money, and a worse situation is all of that going on behind the guys back, for years. He could leave, pay his child support (every man should pay to support his own kids) and have a good life without the cheating wife. He can show his kids that you don't stay and put up with a lying cheater for the rest of your life. There are plenty of good women out there, why stay with this one, who doesn't respect or appreciate him?



Emosapped said:


> @WillKane
> You pretty much summed up exactly the disconnect that has occurred here. The biggest problem is that it's* impossible* to reconnect when she's secretly mourning the loss of this EA. She must see for herself that this a**hole doesn't give a s*it about her. His own ego and emotional needs are being serviced, at the cost of her marriage


If you know it's impossible, then why bother? He means more to her than you do...you just said so yourself. What are you hoping for, second fiddle? She's not gonna see the guy how you see him...even after the 8 months apart from you, she risked it all again and went back to him, so he is much more important and valuable to her than you are. Accept the truth and reject the cheater. 

You should be first, EVERY TIME. If you're not, why stay married to her? Someone else would happily put you first, every single time...without the lies and infidelity. 



lordmayhem said:


> Exactly how do you know it hasnt gone PA? Because it sounds very likely that it has. Dont you realize that distance means nothing, especially if you're in the same country? OM could have easily flown into town, stayed at a hotel, then your WW could have went over to bang him!


Especially since she's been sending him money...you may have even helped finance the guys trip to bang your wife. Not like you'll ever know the whole truth...she keeps secrets, lies, and can't be trusted. Not someone you'd want as a partner in business or life.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

What I want to know is how on earth you have verified that there was no contact in the eight months you were gone?

Just her say so? Is that all you have to go on?

If all you have is her say so, then you must assume there was no break in contact.

Is this your first time dealing with this? Do you know how many cheating spouses ask for/are given space to get their head straight only for them to exploit the additional freedom to do more damage.

I don't think I have encountered one single case study, after hundreds of cases, where after a spouse had space and more freedom during an EA or PA where they made constructive use of it.

Every single time. Every single time a cheating spouse I have read about ever got more freedom or space they just did more damage instead.

So I ask again.. what evidence do you have to support this idea that she went no contact for eight months other than just her say so?

I think it's time for you to be realistic and admit that you don't have 20/20 view into what's going on in her private life, despite what you may think is going on.

You really are basing most of your intel on just what she says aren't you?


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> Sorry you are here.
> 
> But you are right - an ultimatum is exactly that. Otherwise, it's just an idle threat.
> 
> ...


perfect...I have nothing more to add...onward and upward my friend....this time do NOT move out, kick her ass to the curb and expose this to everyone you know


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> What I want to know is how on earth you have verified that there was no contact in the eight months you were gone?
> 
> Just her say so? Is that all you have to go on?
> 
> If all you have is her say so, then you must assume there was no break in contact.


What's more, if you were out of the house, just how certain can you be that she didn't make a quick 2,500 mile trip while you had the kids?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> What's more, if you were out of the house, just how certain can you be that she didn't make a quick 2,500 mile trip while you had the kids?


Yes, more or less what I am suggesting is that he needs to stop thinking that he knows what's going on in her life anymore.

He has to assume that for every rat he's seen, there are fifty he hasn't.

And I honestly don't think he realizes that yet.

I have been there myself. At some point you just have to admit you probably only know at best 10% of the story and assume the other 90% ain't good.

And then act based on that.

Assume she's been on contact with him for the eight months.
Assume she's had phone sex, internet sex, sent intimate photos
Assume she's had sex with him

Once you assume all of that, NOW decide when and what to do.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

I realize that the "TRUTH" doesn't fully exist for me and it never will in this situation. There's been so much deception and so much left out. Deleted photos, texts, emails, will always haunt me if I don't put this behind me. I'd bet everything I own that there was contact the entire time. She was just able to conceal it. The scary thing is the neurotic person I've become. I went to great lengths and did things no man should ever have to do to check on his wife. Countless attempts to guess passwords, trying to hack her work email, and realizing how impossibly difficult a task retrieving deleted messages on an iPhone really is. Hell, these are just a few examples. This ordeal has taken a huge toll on my physical and mental health. But it won't defeat me.

As in all EA's on this site, there's so much to my individual story that has been left out. Details and tidbits of info that may provide useful insight like red flags, coulda, shoulda, woulda bull****. The crazy thing is, no matter how different each story is, there are so many striking similarities to countless experiences on here. All EA's, when stripped of their individuality and obvious unique details, contain the same basic DNA. At their insidious, soul crushing core, EA's are nothing more than crossed boundaries, fantasy, deception, and pain.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Ask your wife if she would accept a one way airplane ticket for Christmas to go see the her boyfriend. Her reaction should be very telling.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Emosapped said:


> I'd bet everything I own that there was contact the entire time. She was just able to conceal it.


Emosapped, what happened during the eight months that you were gone from the house? I am guessing that you spoke to your wife very frequently during that time. What were your conversations like? Did you talk to her about her being in contact with other man during that time? How often did you talk about it? Did she admit she stayed in contact with him "as just a friend" or did she deny any and all contact?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Emosapped, have you considered using a voice-activated recorder in your wife's care and in the house where she is likely to use the phone when you are not around? Other posters have had success with detecting continued infidelity or uncovering the truth by using voice-activated recorders.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Have you decided what you must do? What course is best for you, and your kids' future? It certainly can not include a woman whose mind, thoughts, and love are directed at someone 2,500 miles away.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

A lot happened in the 8 months I was gone. I put the house up for sale and it sold quickly. However, realtor commission ate up my savings and I rented a room from my sister. The wife got an apartment and we shared custody 50/50. She promised transparency and everything under the sun. I told her it would take time and effort if R would ever be a possibility. After 8 months of being away, constantly shuffling the kids back and forth, I decided to give it another go. She was transparent, she quit Facebook and I had no proof that she continued contact. I thought she was done. We all wanted the family back together. She asked me to move into the apartment with her so we could save money and give it a go. 3 months after I came back, I discovered a 44 min phone call that was what prompted me to post. I don't want to ruin Christmas for my kids so as soon as the holidays are over, I'm gone


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> A lot happened in the 8 months I was gone. I put the house up for sale and it sold quickly. However, realtor commission ate up my savings and I rented a room from my sister. The wife got an apartment and we shared custody 50/50. She promised transparency and everything under the sun. I told her it would take time and effort if R would ever be a possibility. After 8 months of being away, constantly shuffling the kids back and forth, I decided to give it another go. She was transparent, she quit Facebook and I had no proof that she continued contact. I thought she was done. We all wanted the family back together. She asked me to move into the apartment with her so we could save money and give it a go. 3 months after I came back, I discovered a 44 min phone call that was what prompted me to post. I don't want to ruin Christmas for my kids so as soon as the holidays are over, I'm gone


Take the time you need if you are sure R is now off the table. Separate your finances. Seek an attorney to draft the paperwork. You can pull the trigger any day you wish, but load the proverbial gun now.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Did you confront her about the 44min call?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Emosapped said:


> I realize that the "TRUTH" doesn't fully exist for me and it never will in this situation. There's been so much deception and so much left out. Deleted photos, texts, emails, will always haunt me if I don't put this behind me. I'd bet everything I own that there was contact the entire time. She was just able to conceal it. The scary thing is the neurotic person I've become. I went to great lengths and did things no man should ever have to do to check on his wife. Countless attempts to guess passwords, trying to hack her work email, and realizing how impossibly difficult a task retrieving deleted messages on an iPhone really is.



Yep - a kindred soul here, brother. I did all of this and got to be an amazing sleuth. Skills I never wanted to learn. Even though we are okay right now, sometimes I think back to the lies, etc, and it just blows my mind. I do know that I would never fight through that again. I would be gone.

Does your wife know that you know about the 44 min phone call? Does she think you are reconciling?


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Yep - a kindred soul here, brother. I did all of this and got to be an amazing sleuth. Skills I never wanted to learn. Even though we are okay right now, sometimes I think back to the lies, etc, and it just blows my mind. I do know that I would never fight through that again. I would be gone.
> 
> Does your wife know that you know about the 44 min phone call? Does she think you are reconciling?


Man do I relate to that. My wife knows for certain - she's got one chance at R. I don't have it in me to do this twice.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> I don't want to ruin Christmas for my kids so as soon as the holidays are over, I'm gone


I respect this reasoning. Now, you'll just have to wait for the "we just had to settle things" BS.

I wish the outcome was different, but at least you know she can't let him go.


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## Boricha (Sep 29, 2013)

This EA has absolutely devastated your family-mentally, physically, financially. You must have loved her and your kids a lot to give it another shot.

Before you leave again, are you sure that you won't return again? Unfortunately, you're either going to accept her EA or get a divorce. One thing for sure, your wife will not give this person up. How does the OM not have anyone? Have you ever contacted him directly? What do you know about this guy? I would let all his family, friends, and co-workers know. You need to win this fight.

Hopefully, it didn't go PA yet(probably due to distance). 

Can your wife ever face up to the consequences of her actions?


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

I sure did confront her about the 44 min. phone call. It took all I had not to pack my shi* up that second. I actually stayed at a cousins house for a day or two because I didn't want to argue in front of the kids.

The last time I left I was fuming while packing my bags. This time, I don't want to be angry while moving out. I want to keep a level head. I want to be as rational, and as calm as possible. And this time I'm sure she'll know that there's no turning back.


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## Boricha (Sep 29, 2013)

Why don't you contact the OM instead? Obviously, he's not threatened by you. I would make his life a living hell. Tell him that you will expose him if this does not stop. You not being able to man up contributes to this ongoing EA.

This EA is selling everyone short. Your wife is a piece of work. Why go through this EA when the OM is so far away? In most EAs, the 2 parties see each regularly(via work,etc), and have an emotional affair. Your so called wife is giving all this up for some loser 2500 miles away? This doesn't make any sense. I am sure there is talk about being together some day.

You really need to handle this better. Turning into a emotional wreck does not help. You need to turn it off. 

Living a great life w/o her is the best revenge. Is there any changes that you would like to make? Go for it.

If something is toxic-wouldn't you stay away? There is nothing to salvage at this point. You have co-dependency issues that need to be addressed. Your happiness does not depend on her as you subconsciously believe. 

When you sold your house at a loss, and had to move in with family-that should have been a deal breaker. 

Good luck.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Sorry you're here 

I've read this now and you sadly are not going anywhere forward with her in this 

Coming through your postings increasingly is the strong sense that nomatter what your heart may want to do, you, in your head know exactly what to do

You know what needs to be done here already 

It's sitting down formulating the process, the time schedule in your head and getting on with it 

There's comes a point when the details, remorse, although important in a closure type way actually don't matter any more 

Getting past the way she has dealt with the aftermath is harder than getting past any betrayal in the first place

Most don't get past it.

The stages of infidelity are many - it's not just "she cheated - I'm hurt !"

It's 
manipulation 
rejection
little respect 
deceit 
the act itself 
the continued betraying 
the treachery.

getting caught 
(not confessing)

then the 'real' sh!t starts 

trickle truthing 
zero respect 
lying 
gaslighting 
even less respect

then the 
blame shifting
the re writing of marital history
the justification 

That's not to mention the effects upon the rest of your family kids other families etc etc (and that's just off the top of my head - there's things I've missed)

I now know that when any of these aspects show up in a significant way the chances of a reconciliation are almost nil, any given one or combination of any is enough to shoot the whole marriage into the abyss.

I reconciled or tried to had various dddays but now when I look at my efforts considering that little list I must have been mad stupid or both.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Emosapped said:


> I sure did confront her about the 44 min. phone call. It took all I had not to pack my shi* up that second. I actually stayed at a cousins house for a day or two because I didn't want to argue in front of the kids.
> 
> The last time I left I was fuming while packing my bags. This time, I don't want to be angry while moving out. I want to keep a level head. I want to be as rational, and as calm as possible. And this time I'm sure she'll know that there's no turning back.


Um, why would you leave? You should instead pack a bag for her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tell her to pack a bag and you will take her to the airport. Tell her you won't stand in the way of her one true love. Tell her she deserves to be happy and you deserve to be happy with a faithful wife that only loves you.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Yeah I don't get this. Whis is Emo the one who has to move out? 

Emosapped why are you the one moving out? You aren't the transgressor here. Tell us your logic.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

The grass is always greener on the other side syndrome...worse than heroin...I just dont get how a woman can get her head so wrapped around how much better another situation would be and suddenly how crappy their current situation is

In my mind, a woman who does this will do it again...certatinly NOT worth living my life waiting and wondering when she will start this crap again, how many more om's there might be...how easy it is for her to go to some website and meet a plethora of "chat buddies"...lmao..."chat buddies"...go on craigslist personals, strictly platonic, and look at all the married women looking for "chat buddies"...

there is no shortage of people out there who simply can NEVER be happy in whatever situation they are in...they will always wonder if "this is it"...or "am I destined for more"...sadly you are married to one of these people...YOU cant fix her...MAYBE you can get a few bandaids on her, things might even go well for a while...but eventually it comes back...

if you are prepared to live like this, then try and ger her into counseling, do the 180, initiate divorce in the hopes youll scare her straight...for now..

or, if you want something better for you and your kids, do the 180, initiate divorce, move her **** into the spare bedroom, and tell her its over...tell her you want her to move out...you cant MAKE her...and with kids in the house you cant make living there hell for her (I would if there were no kids)...but you can definitely stop doing thing for her, do your own laundry...cook meals for you and the kids...blah blah blah...make her change her own light bulbs LOL...but if you want better, then get out...

in your case, there are greener pastures out there...
in HER case, the pastures will NEVER BE GREEN ENOUGH


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

And for the sake of your kids, DONT move out...courts consider that abandonment...

Moving out because its "too hard" living there with her is NOT for the kids, its selfish and your doing it for yourself...talk to a lawyer and I bet money they tell you to stay put...

divide the house, move into the basement or move her into the spare room...do you have a guest room or man cave...


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> A lot happened in the 8 months I was gone. I put the house up for sale and it sold quickly. However, realtor commission ate up my savings and I rented a room from my sister. The wife got an apartment and we shared custody 50/50. She promised transparency and everything under the sun. I told her it would take time and effort if R would ever be a possibility. After 8 months of being away, constantly shuffling the kids back and forth, I decided to give it another go. She was transparent, she quit Facebook and I had no proof that she continued contact. I thought she was done. We all wanted the family back together. She asked me to move into the apartment with her so we could save money and give it a go. 3 months after I came back, I discovered a 44 min phone call that was what prompted me to post. I don't want to ruin Christmas for my kids so as soon as the holidays are over, I'm gone


Whoa...so the family home was sold, and you now share an apartment...and yet she continues to purse this douche bag??

Dude, seriously...she chose her chat buddy over you and the family home...who effing does that???

If your name isnt on the lease, then maybe its best you find your own apartment..but its complicated...you NEED to lawyer up NOW, YESTERDAY...sepparate the finances NOW...I hope you arent paying the cell phone bills for her to sext with her om...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Definitely talk to an attorney before you move out. Some areas will construe that as abandonement and totally mess you up when it comes to custody.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Boricha said:


> Why don't you contact the OM instead? Obviously, he's not threatened by you. I would make his life a living hell. Tell him that you will expose him if this does not stop. You not being able to man up contributes to this ongoing EA.
> 
> Good luck.


What's the point? So the OM's life becomes a living hell, and she just moves on to the next one. There's an infinite supply of affair partners out there.

The key issue is how the OP feels. I believe him when he says he's done. In my opinion then he should just move on. No revenge, no get-evens, nothing. I'd not advise descending to the revenge level. It might make the OP feel good for 10 minutes but that's no real gain.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

sidney2718 said:


> What's the point? So the OM's life becomes a living hell, and she just moves on to the next one. There's an infinite supply of affair partners out there.
> 
> The key issue is how the OP feels. I believe him when he says he's done. In my opinion then he should just move on. No revenge, no get-evens, nothing. I'd not advise descending to the revenge level. It might make the OP feel good for 10 minutes but that's no real gain.


Actually, from the feedback we get here on things like cheaterville, people that don't take it lying down do a lot better than the ones that decide to take the high road and slink off. Maybe its just another case of alpha vs beta.


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

The apartment we all live in right now is in her name, so telling her to leave isn't going to work. She said she wouldn't fight 50/50 custody but I'm going lawyer up no matter what. I have a consultation appointment next week


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Emosapped said:


> The apartment we all live in right now is in her name, so telling her to leave isn't going to work. She said she wouldn't fight 50/50 custody but I'm going lawyer up no matter what. I have a consultation appointment next week


So now she wants a divorce so she does not have to give up OM? WOW.

Pack it in and go back to renting a room at your sisters. Please tell me you had a divorce in the works and separated finances 8 months ago when you sold your house.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

This is from F-102. It shows how contacting an ex can lead to an affair. They start talking about:

Their lives since they parted
Their relationships since they parted
Their families
Their spouses
You
How you're a great husband
How you're an excellent father
How you're a wonderful guy
Your job
How your job keeps you busy
How your job keeps you away
How she sometimes feels lonely when you're away
How she sometimes feels a little overburdened at home
How she sometimes feels a little taken for granted
How she feels you don't ALWAYS listen to her
How she feels you don't ALWAYS understand her
How she sometimes feels like you're not "there" for her
How...okay, you're not ALWAYS such a wonderful guy
How she loved hearing from him again
How she loves talking to him again
How she looks forward to his texts/calls/e-mails now
How she feels young again
How she feels appreciated again
How she feels attractive again
How it's been so, so long since you made her feel that way
How her eyes have now been opened
How she now realizes what she truly wants and needs
How she now realizes that you could never give her that
How she now realizes that she "settled" for you
How insensitive you can be sometimes
How selfish you can be sometimes
How you can be a real jerk sometimes
How she wonders if they would have stayed together
How she now realizes that she never really loved you
How she now realizes that she really loved him all along
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How you're the biggest a**hole she's ever known
How you're standing in the way of her true happiness
How you ruined her life
How she made a big mistake marrying you
How she made an even bigger mistake letting him go
How they were really meant to be together
How she desperately has to get away from you
How she's definitely going to leave you
How she's been secretly talking to divorce lawyers
How they're going to live happily ever after...

...get the picture?


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## Emosapped (Nov 30, 2013)

Finances have been separate for almost a year.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> The apartment we all live in right now is in her name, so telling her to leave isn't going to work. She said she wouldn't fight 50/50 custody but I'm going lawyer up no matter what. I have a consultation appointment next week


Why are you even discussing this with her?

Just do it and stop giving her warnings or heads up.

Just show up with the paperwork and let shock do its work.

When people lie, cheat, and exploit you, you don't give them a warning that you are fighting back.

You just do it.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Not much to say but sorry for your troubles.. I truly feel for you.. I am sorry you are going through all of this..

I am glad you are a strong man to handle this stuff.. I wasn't.. 

It eventually gets better but it is hard to see that right now as we both can imagine and understand..

I hope whatever you decided it goes your way..


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Emosapped said:


> Finances have been separate for almost a year.


Good!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Emosapped said:


> The horrible thing about ultimatums is that you have to follow through I appreciate any advice.


I wish I had some to give but you answered your own question.

You GAVE her every chance you could to make amends. This crap about the kids being scarred is on HER head not yours. SHE broke your marriage vows not you. Don't let her guilt trip you. Your conscious is clear and you've been more than generous with your terms. 

Have her served, you can always back out later if she has a change of heart. If nothing else maybe it will be a wake up call. You need to take the reprecussions to the next level cause she's not getting the message. You HAVE to be prepared to follow though if she doesn't though. Sorry, I know it sucks.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

One more time, put the OM on cheaterville.com and send him the google link.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> One more time, put the OM on cheaterville.com and send him the google link.


To accomplish what again?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Wife violated No Contact with EA partner again after 8 months*



Allen_A said:


> To accomplish what again?


To make further contact unpalatable?


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Also some need the self satisfaction.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I think he already knows what to do. I think he is right to wait until after the holiday for the kids. I would walk away as well. If she did not stop on her own in eight months with him being out of the house she sure is not going to stop now. I do agree with the statements of how much to tell her but honestly for me it would be purely business at this point. I would not give her any signs that I loved her or any affection at all. If she approached me in that fashion I would simply tell her our relationship is over with and I will be leaving after the holiday. I would not be mean about it. There is no real reason for the kids to see this. 

Walk away from her and just focus on the kids. I would probably do a no contact with her for a while as well just to set the tone. 

Clay


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> I would simply tell her our relationship is over with and I will be leaving after the holiday. I would not be mean about it. There is no real reason for the kids to see this.
> 
> Walk away from her and just focus on the kids. I would probably do a no contact with her for a while as well just to set the tone.
> 
> Clay


I don't think it's a good idea to give your spouse any heads up at all about how you feel or your plans. Why give her any warning? She will just screw you over with it.

Just shut up and make an exit happen. Talk to a lawyer in secret about how to make that happen.

Tell her the relationship is over? Why, to give her the go ahead to bone the guy over the holidays?

I would not tell her any thing is over. I would not give her a heads up about anything at all.

_Any information she is given she will just use to hurt you if she can._

_Once you decide to exit a toxic situation, you *do NOT announce* that decision. You just do it quickly and quietly.
_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> I don't think it's a good idea to give your spouse any heads up at all about how you feel or your plans. Why give her any warning? She will just screw you over with it.
> 
> Just shut up and make an exit happen. Talk to a lawyer in secret about how to make that happen.
> 
> ...


Normally I would totally agree with you on this. Its clear he left for 8 months. Its not like its brand new and it sounds honestly like he half expected she was still doing it. 

So honestly there is no real reason to be vile. Just leave on a good note for the kids sake. Show them he can deal with this and it will promote security with them. I would simply just put her in her place. She is no longer his partner so she will be treated as such. Is she entitled to all the details no. 

For me its black and white. I would simply tell her when I left. 

Don't Call. 
Don't Write. 
We are not friends. 

Keep communication through the kids unless of emergency. 

Clay


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Xenote said:


> Did you confront her about the 44min call?


What does it matter at this point? He needs to get to the point that he doesn't care there was a 44 minute phone call except as a data point that she was very hurtful to him and hence can't be trusted.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Finances are good? Okay. Go apartment shopping.

Speak to her when something important comes up.

Make no plans except for holiday ones. Don't do anything 'as a family' together, i.e. If you need to go to your folks or in laws together, fine. If she says 'hey...we should take the kids to X' be very careful about that. Don't say no, but question her motives in your head.

Don't show affection.

Make your own plans in life. There are a dozen things you've wanted to do but didn't because you had a family. Well, now you don't. You have kids. Start by going to Hooters or the Tilted Kilt for dinner one night.

If she talks about fixing the relationship, say 'fine'. Let her do all the heavy lifting.

If she offers phone records or asks if you want to check anything or ask any questions, express indifference. That ship has sailed.

Things can STILL be fixed, but not by you.

Find a nice apartment, pick out a few hobbies and overindulge a bit in gifts for the kids. The money you save can come out of HER gifts.

Check out a few women near work whom you might want to say hello to. Just as a bit of mental exercise. "I don't have her, so who ELSE is out there...?"

You need to stop caring about her. This is easier with distance so minimize the time you spend with her.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

As a comparison, I had an EA. Two years this January with no contact and with minimal oversight by the wife.

It CAN be done. It is very hard.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Emosapped said:


> This has been a crazy ride to say the least. First of all I'd like to thank the people on this forum. I've learned a lot about EA's and the insidious nature their effects on marriage. I'd like to offer some background info:
> 
> Been married 13 years, two children, ages 7 and 4
> 
> ...




She has broken her word and faithfulness many times over and doesn't seem to care how it effects you, the kids and your marriage. This is on going to this day. You are a nice guy and nice guys get walked over and finish last. You must tell her, do this one more time, I am filing for divorce and follow through this time, instead of doing nothing and she knows you will never do anything, and she will take advantage of you forever. 

OR.....tell her, I am having an Emotional Affair myself starting right now because you have for so long!!! See how she reacts to either situation. Either she grows up, mature's and stops the texting EA to this other man or you ditch the ***** and move on already. 

Women like this make me sick.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Wife violated No Contact with EA partner again after 8 months*



JCD said:


> What does it matter at this point? He needs to get to the point that he doesn't care there was a 44 minute phone call except as a data point that she was very hurtful to him and hence can't be trusted.


Very true


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