# Apparently I am the Exception



## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

Ok, so my wife is LD and I am HD. Not at all unusual here. It creates a lot of frustration in our marriage.

Interestingly, when she IS in the mood, she is really turned on by sex and really enjoys it; it just needs to happen on HER terms, which might be twice in one night followed by a month of no interest or anything in between. 

More to the point of this post, I seem to be one of the only guys on the forum who has fewer (a lot fewer) orgasms than his wife (not counting masturbation). When she is in the mood for sex, she is very turned on and focused on her own stimulation. She can orgasm quite easily and typically will cum a few minutes after penetration (or similar with finger or tongue stimulation). I am not that fast, so I would say about 80% of the time she cums first. And when she cums, she is done. She even once, about a month ago, came first while on top, rolled off and said, "I am done, going to sleep" and was out in 30 seconds. I brought it up the next day and she thought it was funny. 

I have tried to discuss this with her, but I can't make her see that its an actual issue. She just has no interest in any part of sex (giving or receiving) after reaching orgasm.

Similarly, while I really enjoy eating her out (in fact I would do it more often, but she is only occasionally in the right mood for it), she won't give oral, and has no interest in manual stimulation unless she is receiving as well.

So basically I find myself sexually frustrated. I really enjoy all aspects of sexual relations, whether it leads to orgasm or not, but the "orgasm gap" is taking a toll on me. I know that if I don't have one during a given encounter, it might be week(s) before it happens again.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
That sounds depressingly like my situation a few years ago. It took a number of serious - and to her upsetting conversations about how unfair this was to get where we are now - which is not great, but a lot better than it was. Sex is now less common than I would like but she tries to make the encounters fair.

One problem with LD/HD is that strangely the HD can end up as the sex slave of the LD. The HD wants sex, any sex with their partner, so they will give in to pretty much anything the LD wants. The LD can have sex whenever and however they want so the don't have to put in any effort. In some cases they may not even realize how unbalanced things are.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

went through the exact same. enjoying one of the side effects of the med that the doc put me on for fibro which lows sex drive. 

don't worth, those weeks will stretch into multiples of months eventually


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## PAPS18 (May 17, 2012)

I always try to get my wife to orgasm first and then we go for mine, I can't imagine your situation-I am sorry. It is just amazing to read stories of women on these boards and other sites I have visited before, talking about how they have multiple O's etc, and then women like yours (and mine) have one and that is it-end of story. There have been times when I have had a quick trigger (when I go without sex for a 3-4 weeks, I don't last that long) and try to keep kissing/touching-even at my age I can get ready again with 20 minutes, but she shuts it down-one and done. I don't complain because I appreciate her efforts in allowing the one and done. 

As for advice, I am sure soon there will be someone ready to call you beta and you need to be more alpha. I will just tell you, you are not alone and it is very common in my world-I hang out with a lot of beta guys, we all share our frustrations when we get together.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Does she care about your needs? My wife definitely comes first and hard, but will make it her mission to make sure I finish. She will never let me not finish, even if I don't want to for whatever reason, like I slip a disk or break a finger. Maybe you should focus on building up and finishing as fast as possible. Maybe pull out and fire hose her. Then go to sleep and laugh about it tomorrow.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Tell her this is unacceptable.

Tell her you expect a healthy sexual relationship- not one just at her convenience or whim.

IF she is unwilling, then you have two decisions:
1) Stay and suffer (and no longer complain because you are choosing to put yourself in misery)
2) divorce and find a compatible person that is interested in sex as much as you are.

It's funny - you read over all the threads of HD/LD incompatibility and the solution is so simple that most people can't wrap their mind around the answer.

In the business world, if you fail to uphold your end of a deal/contract, you get penalized (this can be anything from reprimand to being fired). Sexual relationships are almost always handled so delicately that the problem is never truly addressed and one partner suffers. 

If you communicate and handle this issue more directly without using kids gloves (i.e. talk and lay down expectations and consequences) most couples could either save their sex life or go their own way in order to pursue more compatible partners.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Your wife is a selfish lover. Time to make some serious changes or this will be your life indefinitely. You need to tell her you are not ok with how this is going and that conversation needs to come with a consequence.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

sscygni said:


> Ok, so my wife is LD and I am HD. Not at all unusual here. It creates a lot of frustration in our marriage.
> 
> Interestingly, when she IS in the mood, she is really turned on by sex and really enjoys it; it just needs to happen on HER terms, which might be twice in one night followed by a month of no interest or anything in between.
> 
> ...


I recommend that you get yourself worked up as much as possible before penetration so you can beat her to the punch.

Then say "I'm done", roll over, and go to sleep.

See how she likes it.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Too nice.


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## Capster (Jun 10, 2014)

What would happen if you keep going? Or if she can't keep going, straddle her and grab her hand and put it on your **** and say "I'm not finished with you yet." Or take maters into your own hand and finish over her yourself?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

sscygni said:


> Ok, so my wife is LD and I am HD. Not at all unusual here. It creates a lot of frustration in our marriage.
> 
> So basically I find myself sexually frustrated. I really enjoy all aspects of sexual relations, whether it leads to orgasm or not, but the "orgasm gap" is taking a toll on me. I know that if I don't have one during a given encounter, it might be week(s) before it happens again.


There is a disconnection that is apparent, when I read your post.

As such, I am not surprised there is a LD issue, with your wife. The problem here, is that there is no real line of communication. If any difficult subject is brought up, (in this case) it is just dismissed- instantly.

I say this, because you are not going to make any ground, unless you work in a low-key manner and re-establish the connection with her. If you really think about it, it is a sad predicament to be in. You are married and your partner is in the (temporary) mindset that she won't expend a bit of energy to please her husband.

The tough pill to swallow, in my opinion, would be for you to put that on the backburner, for a bit, and work strictly on reconnection. Otherwise, any discussion of this will not lead anywhere meaningful.


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## PAPS18 (May 17, 2012)

Snerg-

You can't compare business with marriage-or maybe you can. The divorce rate last I heard was over 50%, so more people are taking your advise than are not it seems. People will get divorced now instead of settling for less than they want or potentially trying to work together on a variety of issues in their marriages to save it or make it better. 

The thing with starting over, you have no guarantee you find someone that over time meets your needs better than your current partner. I have said to my friends that are divorced after having the kids they want, why get married again?? I know for a fact I would never marry again if I became single. I married once and that is all I ever wanted, I have two great kids and have no reason to ever marry again if something happened to my wife. Doesn't mean I wouldn't date/have a serious relationship but too many things change when you get married. Just my two cents.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

That sounds crappy. Surely if she's so tired she has to go to sleep she can take care of you the next day? 

That's what we do when that happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

sscygni said:


> I have tried to discuss this with her, but I can't make her see that its an actual issue. She just has no interest in any part of sex (giving or receiving) after reaching orgasm.


Sounds to me like you might need to learn the fine art of extending her pleasure! 

Start here: http://www.amazon.com/Slow-Sex-Fulfilling-Sustainable-Sexuality/dp/159477367X/



> Review
> “. . . Slow Sex is making tantric concepts truly accessible to people with no experience with (or inclination to study) eastern philosophy and practices. By using simple language, with this broader audience of readers is comfortable with, and by giving readers permission to explore at their own pace, she opens the door for the exploration of diverse sexual experiences which will enhance and nourish body, mind, and spirit.” (Anna Jedrziewski, New Age Retailer, January 2011)
> 
> “. . . Richardson offers step-by-step guidance, and even former skeptics swear by it's value--physical, emotional and spiritual. We know sex is important to our pleasure; this kind is also essential to our well-being.” (Whole Life Times, January 2011)
> ...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Okay, so the sex is problematical, even when you get it. Why, exactly, are you choosing to stay in this relationship?


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

PAPS18 said:


> Snerg-
> You can't compare business with marriage-or maybe you can. The divorce rate last I heard was over 50%, so more people are taking your advise than are not it seems. People will get divorced now instead of settling for less than they want or potentially trying to work together on a variety of issues in their marriages to save it or make it better.


That's my point - communication - if you don't communicate, you can't even begin to correct the issue.



PAPS18 said:


> The thing with starting over, you have no guarantee you find someone that over time meets your needs better than your current partner.


And my point about leaving - the needs aren't being met, so no matter whom you connect with, it will be at least equal to but more than likely better than what you currently have (realty wise, you're not going to get with someone who has same or less desire for sex than the person you are leaving)


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

As a female... I've never been tired after an orgasm... my husband, however (it's a running joke)...I know he's going to be OUT quickly after, could be just walking to the bathroom & back (at night anyway)...If I want him to watch a movie with me.. no sex before hand!...

Our dynamics are ... he is always holding on / on the verge... till I get mine, then he lets loose and we ride the waves together.. this is the great majority of the time.. those times where I get mine 1st & he didn't ....he gets to do me any way he wants.. 

It fulfills me to give him his too... or I'd be disappointed, thinking he wasn't into sex.. that would upset me far more. 

She is most definitively a *"selfish lover"* and should get a taste of her own medicine...to wake her up.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

snerg said:


> Tell her this is unacceptable.
> 
> Tell her you expect a healthy sexual relationship- not one just at her convenience or whim.
> 
> ...


Option 1 is not sustainable for any normal person with a normal sex drive: strike that right off the list.
Option 2 is definitely viable.
You missed Option 3: communicate with her, honestly and openly, about your legitimate sexual needs, and how these are not being met. Ask her if she would agree to meet your completely reasonable needs. If she says "NO" let her know that because she sees sex as such a low priority, it should not be a problem for her when you go elsewhere to meet these needs. Then be silent, and if she starts to protest, go back to asking her to meet your legitimate needs.


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

SimplyAmorous is exactly right. The wife is being extremely selfish. Not only is she not putting out unless SHE'S in the mood, but she doesn't have the forethought of letting you gets yours when she is in the mood. Something definitely has to happen in order for her to see this as a "problem". She "could" be totally unaware that it is a problem for you because you are simply not demanding it. The "talk" hasn't done any good in getting through to her, so it is time you show her exactly what it feels like from your end by doing this to her.

Get worked up so much before sex that getting there will be extremely quick. Then, as hard as it is, roll over and go to sleep. She likely won't just "let" you get away with it without voicing her frustration, but make her actually FEEL what it feels like. Maybe, just maybe, you'll get through to her. It's worth a try for sure.

Either way, you will definitely have to take full and complete charge of the "O" gap until your own satisfaction is met. Your needs are just as important as hers.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

PAPS18 said:


> Snerg-
> 
> The thing with starting over, you have no guarantee you find someone that over time meets your needs better than your current partner.


OMG...I have been saying the EXACT SAME THING for several years now! 

Relationships are NOT stagnant; they CHANGE over time. The chances of finding someone who is ALWAYS going to match your wants, your 'needs', your likes, your moods, your desires is slim to none. Know why? One reason is because YOU _CHANGE_ TOO!

If we base an entire relationship on something that probably WILL change (such as sex, looks, body type, job, etc.), we are setting ourselves up to FAIL.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

snerg said:


> Tell her this is unacceptable.
> 
> Tell her you expect a healthy sexual relationship- not one just at her convenience or whim.
> 
> ...


I am not sure if you have kids, but I am guessing not. Your advice may be fine for a childless couple, but once kids are involved, particularly young kids, the nuclear option (divorce) is really not much of an option anymore.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

SimplyAmorous said:


> As a female... I've never been tired after an orgasm... my husband, however (it's a running joke)...I know he's going to be OUT quickly after, could be just walking to the bathroom & back (at night anyway)...If I want him to watch a movie with me.. no sex before hand!...


I have joked with her that she is the man when it comes to sex; she comes first and goes to sleep after.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

SimplyAmorous said:


> She is most definitively a *"selfish lover"* and should get a taste of her own medicine...to wake her up.


I understand the "eye for an eye" mentality, but how often has that actually helped anything? For reference she was brought up in a sexually repressed culture, which makes it difficult for her to speak openly about sexual issues. I can pretty much guarantee that if I followed some of the advice here (grabbing her and finishing whether she likes it or not) she would just cry and say that I made her feel like a ***** and that would be it for a month or two. 

We are actually more or less in that place now -- I was on travel for much of last week, and the night before I returned I sent her an email which included an "R" rated sexual fantasy with her. It was pretty benign by most standards, but her reaction was pretty poor to say the least; her immediate response was something to the effect of that I am always thinking about sex and we should see a counselor to discuss it (which I am 100% in favor of actually), followed by no sex and a throwaway comment that she feels like a *****.

Bottom line is that, while she enjoys sex when she is in the mood, she inherently is conditioned to see it as evil and dirty, and I am sure feels guilty about enjoying it. This makes frank conversations very difficult because unless she is in the right place they immediately devolve into "my obsession."


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

tommyr said:


> You missed Option 3: communicate with her, honestly and openly, about your legitimate sexual needs, and how these are not being met. Ask her if she would agree to meet your completely reasonable needs. If she says "NO" let her know that because she sees sex as such a low priority, it should not be a problem for her when you go elsewhere to meet these needs. Then be silent, and if she starts to protest, go back to asking her to meet your legitimate needs.


This is where I am right now, but I am wondering if it would be better to have this discussion facilitated by a therapist. She has opened the door to this option, and I am hoping that a therapist might help her to see that I am not a deviant who thinks about sex 24/7; that my needs are normal for a male of the human species.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Do it. She needs outside perspective regarding her views on sex.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sscygni said:


> I understand the "eye for an eye" mentality, but how often has that actually helped anything? For reference she was brought up in a sexually repressed culture, which makes it difficult for her to speak openly about sexual issues. I can pretty much guarantee that if I followed some of the advice here (grabbing her and finishing whether she likes it or not) she would just cry and say that I made her feel like a ***** and that would be it for a month or two.


 I don't think what I am suggesting is that.. in fact.. I WISH my husband had made me suffer a bit when we were younger.. as his drive was always higher.. he was ALWAYS ready to go.. *and basically I took that for granted*.. so had he gave me a dose of my own medicine.. making me WAIT when I was horny... then spoke to me about how that feels.. as I can get pretty aggressive, not backing down when I want it... I feel I would have "felt" and understood more what men go through... it's surely worth a heart to heart about it... 

Yes... one would have to be more delicate with the "sexually repressed".. one of my 1st threads here was dealing with this issue actually.. I certainly had some hang ups myself.. But I can't say I ever didn't want sex, or felt it was wrong in marriage.. though I wasn't comfortable with certain acts.. as I associated them with Porn.. seeing some hard core porn in our youth was a huge turn off for me... I didn't see "LOVE" in that.. 



> We are actually more or less in that place now -- I was on travel for much of last week, and the night before I returned I sent her an email which included an "R" rated sexual fantasy with her. It was pretty benign by most standards, but her reaction was pretty poor to say the least; her immediate response was something to the effect of that I am always thinking about sex and we should see a counselor to discuss it (which I am 100% in favor of actually), followed by no sex and a throwaway comment that she feels like a *****.


 I'm sorry you are going through this.. even as a woman , I would find this highly frustrating.. I don't even think I could stay with someone who I couldn't openly talk about sex with .... I would suggest this book to you & her..... (if she is a christian)...not sure if religion is a part of the hang up, or what faith you may be.... but it speaks to the emotional & physical, even spiritual beauty of sex shared between married couples.. personally I find that more beautiful than anything created.. but there is a time & a place for such beauty.. 

Sheet Music: Uncovering the Secrets of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage: Kevin Leman: Books

How about an article like this..

For the BEST SEX EVER Emotional Intimacy is key..here's why!


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

sscygni said:


> I am not sure if you have kids, but I am guessing not. Your advice may be fine for a childless couple, but once kids are involved, particularly young kids, the nuclear option (divorce) is really not much of an option anymore.


once you remove divorce as an option - no matter what your child situation may be, you pretty much limit yourself to how you will go forward.

Like I said before, communicate. You have to communicate in order to attempt to fix this issue.

However, if you communicate and she still refuses, and divorce isn't an option, where do you go?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

sscygni said:


> I have joked with her that she is the man when it comes to sex; she comes first and goes to sleep after.


There's part of the problem right there, the joking about it. My wife cracked the old joke about no bj's after marriage a few times, until I shut that down, and I'm not an Alpha male (I wouldn't say I'm totally Beta, either). It didn't change anything in that regard, but it made it clear that I wasn't on board with that mentality.

One thing that has yet to be mentioned is that perhaps she's doing this on purpose, or even subconsciously. Maybe she's had one too many experiences where the man finished first, didn't care about her pleasure, and rolled over. Or otherwise she's been made to feel used by past partners and is therefore turning the tables. The fact that she seems to find it amusing shows her lack of empathy when it comes to this, and that's not uncommon when someone has been in the same boat, previously.

It's certainly selfishness, but is she actually a selfish lover by nature? I'm not so sure. I am actually wondering if this is a conscious or subconscious response to prior experiences and feelings of worthlessness when it comes to sex. And unfortunately, you essentially let her do this, which only reinforces her desire to do it.

Basically, I'm thinking she's getting a sense of satisfaction from doing this. Not necessarily to YOU, but perhaps to men, in general.

On the flip side, being an LD woman, it's possible she doesn't "get" sex. My wife is also LD, and although she always ensures I enjoy myself, too (she'd never leave me hanging, ever), there's also an element of "once sex is done, it's done". There's no "round two" or "let's do that again tomorrow". There's no afterglow, or anticipation for the next time (which could be a week or two away). There's no mention of it the next day ("That was amazing!"). Basically, in between sex sessions with my wife, there's no mention of sex, period, no flirting, anticipation, or feelings of being closer with me, no desire to do it again soon. Sex is sex. It starts, it ends, it's over with for the time being.

It's possible your wife simply doesn't understand that it's a mutual experience. Maybe she thinks you get your orgasms through masturbation during your dry spells, and that the only goal of sex is to have an orgasm. In her mind you get yours, and every week (or two or three) she gets hers.

I hate to bring up the topic of asexuality, but as I understand it, this type of mindset towards sex isn't that uncommon in that area. Contrary to what many people think, many asexual people still have that physiological urge to orgasm. But that's all it is. For the rest of us, sex is both a physical AND a mental urge. Asexuals, with varying degrees, lack the mental aspect of sexuality, but many don't lack the physical aspect. For many, they don't quite compute the mental side of things, especially in terms of how it relates to their partners. Therefore, in her mind, an orgasm is the only goal, on the occasions she has that urge, and she gets one. It's a total shot in the dark, and probably unlikely, but it's another avenue to think about.

But it sounds like she's using you as a masturbatory aid. There's no foreplay (including on her), it only occurs every few weeks, she seems to put no effort into it, and she finishes quickly (sometimes in less than minute, I think you said?) then she's done. This is essentially masturbation for most people. I guess some folks make a big to-do about it, but most of us just go to town and get off, and get on with our lives.

Does she masturbate that you know of? If she does, then perhaps sex with you is just a "different" way of doing it every now and again. If she doesn't, then this is her masturbation, essentially.


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## PAPS18 (May 17, 2012)

It all comes back to priorities, we all have them and it impacts how we live our life. For the LD folks, sex is not a priority plain and simple. My wife has told me that-and even though I tell her it IS for me, it isn't for her. Her work is not only her job-and her paycheck, but it is a priority for her. It takes on major importance for her-and while my job is also a priority, when I leave the office for the most part I am not in work mode-well, I am on call but rarely do I have to work from home. Kids are another of her priorities-same with me. We both volunteer and are heavily involved with our children's activities. Our house, meaning home projects, also a priority for the wife-less so for me-my priorities are doing most of the household duties like laundry, cleaning dishes etc, and all the outside stuff like grass cutting, planting etc. She likes projects like painting and other projects-me not so much but I will help. Point being, we all have priorities in life and for the LD person, sex is very low on the list. It is one of the items that can be bumped easily if something else comes up-even being tired. It is just sex after all. For the HD or MD (medium drive like me), it is a higher priority and I would NEVER bump it off as a priority. The problem is, the LD is likely never going to think of sex as anything more than a low priority-it is why sometimes if a person has a big fight about sex, the LD partner WILL have sex for a few weeks like the higher drive person prefers, but given a week or two, or month, they go right back to the norm. 

The interesting thing is, the LD partner in most cases made sex a MUCH higher priority in the early stages of the relationship. Why is that-well the new factor of course, but also when you are younger and have less responsibility, the spouse/partner can be a higher priority. Over time, other things move the spouse lower and lower on the totem pole. As a kid, I remember some of my friends going away to college and their parents getting a divorce-I thought, WHY would parents get a divorce after all those years but now I see it clearly. Women these days are the ones that tend to file for divorce more and more even as the kids are young-because the system is set up for them to win-they get kids, house, child support. They lose some financial support obviously but they essentially get rid of the "problem" which is the spouse. BUT, when the kids leave the house for college or just move out, that is when more men seek divorce-why, because they have been staying for the kids. Sorry, don't mean to potentially hi-jack the post, just pointing out that with the OP, it is clear to me that sex is not a priority for his wife and what is even more concerning is his pleasure is not a priority. I have made posts here about my wife and her lack of drive, her being selfish or sexually naive, but she would never leave me hanging like this, to me that borders on being a spiteful person.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

alexm said:


> There's part of the problem right there, the joking about it. My wife cracked the old joke about no bj's after marriage a few times, until I shut that down, and I'm not an Alpha male (I wouldn't say I'm totally Beta, either). It didn't change anything in that regard, but it made it clear that I wasn't on board with that mentality.


I agree with you whole-heartedly. I have let some things slide or laughed them off that matter and now I need to dig in and re-open those conversations. Its just a fine line between asserting my needs and making her feel like she has an obligation to me, which is understandably a huge turnoff.



alexm said:


> One thing that has yet to be mentioned is that perhaps she's doing this on purpose, or even subconsciously. Maybe she's had one too many experiences where the man finished first, didn't care about her pleasure, and rolled over. Or otherwise she's been made to feel used by past partners and is therefore turning the tables. The fact that she seems to find it amusing shows her lack of empathy when it comes to this, and that's not uncommon when someone has been in the same boat, previously.


Interesting theory, worth exploring. I know that sex with her ex husband was unsatisfying to her. It would certainly not be a conscious thing. She generally starts lovemaking very much in mutual pleasure mode, it just seems that as she becomes more aroused her focus pulls into herself.



alexm said:


> On the flip side, being an LD woman, it's possible she doesn't "get" sex. My wife is also LD, and although she always ensures I enjoy myself, too (she'd never leave me hanging, ever), there's also an element of "once sex is done, it's done". There's no "round two" or "let's do that again tomorrow". There's no afterglow, or anticipation for the next time (which could be a week or two away). There's no mention of it the next day ("That was amazing!"). Basically, in between sex sessions with my wife, there's no mention of sex, period, no flirting, anticipation, or feelings of being closer with me, no desire to do it again soon. Sex is sex. It starts, it ends, it's over with for the time being.
> 
> It's possible your wife simply doesn't understand that it's a mutual experience. Maybe she thinks you get your orgasms through masturbation during your dry spells, and that the only goal of sex is to have an orgasm. In her mind you get yours, and every week (or two or three) she gets hers.


I don't think this is entirely accurate. She perhaps has a distorted view of sexual pleasure, but she definitely 'gets' it. She very much enjoys foreplay (I did not mean to say we don't engage in that, we certainly do, sometimes for 10-20 minutes, and she is usually the one who wants to move onward). She is big on the romantic aspects, candles, flower petals, etc. as well. She loves romantic kissing, spooning, all of those sorts of things. She SAYS that orgasms are actually not important to her, and I know that she almost never masturbates (the last time I know of was last summer when we were apart for 6 weeks). However once she is on the path toward orgasm something changes and she becomes very focused on achieving it.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'm sorry you are going through this.. even as a woman , I would find this highly frustrating.. I don't even think I could stay with someone who I couldn't openly talk about sex with .... I would suggest this book to you & her..... (if she is a christian)...not sure if religion is a part of the hang up, or what faith you may be.... but it speaks to the emotional & physical, even spiritual beauty of sex shared between married couples.. personally I find that more beautiful than anything created.. but there is a time & a place for such beauty..


Thanks for those links she is nominally Christian, but not active. Brought up Eastern Orthodox, which is the source of the "sex is evil" mentality. She has successfully thrown off most of the thinking of the church, but there are certainly parts that are dug in deep.

I think that is the biggest part of the problem. We DO talk about sex sometimes, but like I said, it can only happen as a centered discussion when she is in a specific mood. During those times, she says that she enjoys it, but feels that having it "too often" is decadent. She likens it to animal instinct, and as humans we have the power to override our animal instincts and act in a more civilized way. I think that part of her enjoys denying herself sexual satisfaction the same way a recovering sugar addict can get pleasure by refusing desert. A self-demonstration that her thinking brain is the one in control, not the animal pleasure seeking sub brain.

We have discussed the clear and obvious fact that we have different levels of desire. She understands, but insists that having sex any more than we do would make her resent it, and resent me. Based on our history when I have been very active with initiation, I believe that to be the case.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I'm not a fan of the therapist route.

If your wife is at all stubborn, she will reject any therapist who suggests she has a problem.

Conversely, you could easily end up with a therapist who tells her everything on her end is OK and that YOU need to jump through a series of hoops before you should reasonably expect a better sex life.

At the end of the day, this is between you and her. Have one serious, calm discussion about this. Make sure it is clear to both of you that there is a problem. Don't fight about it, just present the issue. 

Then shut up about it and watch what she does. If she continues on the same path, start to pull back on the relationship. No more dates, flowers. Keep up your end of the bargain on maintaining the household, but pull back on all of the couples stuff. That is for people who are in mutually satisfying relationships, not pretend relationships. 

Make an effort not to do this in a passive aggressive way. It is just a natural consequence of the distance she has put between you. You're just not interested in stoking a relationship with someone who is not very interested in you. 

This will either get her attention or her indifference. If it's indifference, you've got to decide whether you're OK with a lower key type of marriage where you mostly aren't a real couple.

But that is a couple of steps away from where you are now.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

sscygni said:


> We have discussed the clear and obvious fact that we have different levels of desire. She understands, but insists that having sex any more than we do would make her resent it, and resent me. Based on our history when I have been very active with initiation, I believe that to be the case.


Then you need to explain to her that you now Resent her. Because that is now in deed, the truth.

The Book the sex starved marriage explains it this way. When you tell me you love me but refuse to care for my needs, or give me the things that make me happy, it is very hard for me to believe that you do love me. To expect me to remain faithful to you when you are not faithful to my needs would be foolish.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It sounds like you do a lot of tiptoeing around her 'moods.' Moods to talk, moods to have sex, probably moods about a lot of other things, things you're careful not to upset.

Which leads me to believe you have, possibly unwittingly, become a Nice Guy. And women do not, cannot, respect a Nice Guy, and women typically get more and more angry and disrespectful of Nice Guys. Guys who are afraid to upset the apple cart.

If this is the case, that's the first thing you need to address.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

turnera said:


> It sounds like you do a lot of tiptoeing around her 'moods.' Moods to talk, moods to have sex, probably moods about a lot of other things, things you're careful not to upset.
> 
> Which leads me to believe you have, possibly unwittingly, become a Nice Guy. And women do not, cannot, respect a Nice Guy, and women typically get more and more angry and disrespectful of Nice Guys. Guys who are afraid to upset the apple cart.
> 
> If this is the case, that's the first thing you need to address.


You may very well be on to something. She has been through a lot; when we met she was going through a painful divorce and also dealing with a serious health problem, a year into our relationship she lost her job, last year she lost her father. All of these things kind of put me into protector mode right from the start; the guy who sacrifices himself endlessly for his partner. I don't regret helping her through tough times at all, but I now believe that it has become the basis how what she expects from me - silent self sacrifice.

How do I address the fact that that is not the role I want to play for the next 30 years without coming off as an *******?


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> I'm not a fan of the therapist route.
> 
> If your wife is at all stubborn, she will reject any therapist who suggests she has a problem.
> 
> ...


I understand your reasoning, but without a third party, it really is just my views against hers. From her perspective, I am the "deviant" with the unreasonable demands; why then should she be the one to change her ways? Plus, I know from experience that there is no satisfaction on either side if she feels pressured into sex. The last thing I want is more sex, but with my wife not involved and enjoying the experience. That would be worse than where we are now. So from that perspective I don't see that demands / ultimatums / guilt trips will really have satisfactory outcomes for us.

I think this is a crucial nugget of truth in HD/LD relationships. I don't get the sense at all that she is not into me. She is loving, close, caring outside of the bedroom. She does not appear to have sexual interest in anybody other than me. She is very interested when she is in the mood. Its just at a frequency much lower than I would like, and with a her first mindset that I would like to address.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> Then you need to explain to her that you now Resent her. Because that is now in deed, the truth.


Unfortunately, you are correct. I do hold some resentment toward her. Thank you for putting it succinctly enough that it sunk in for me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sscygni said:


> How do I address the fact that that is not the role I want to play for the next 30 years without coming off as an *******?


By starting small. Pick small things that rub you the wrong way. Envision yourself as you were when you were dating. What things would you have not put up with back then? Be that person again, and when you catch yourself bending your morals, or feeling wrong about something, stop. Just stop. If you feel like a doormat when she tells you to run to the store and get you a new batch of ice cream, kiss her, hug her, and say 'babe, I'm really busy tonight. You mind going to get it yourself?' And see what happens.

Keep doing that sort of thing. Start small, make tiny changes to get back to who you used to be, and she'll start reacting in subtle ways.


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