# Can abusive men change?



## Natalie789 (Aug 24, 2013)

This question is more geared toward the ladies, but of course guys can answer, too. Has anyone here ever been in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship where the abusive man was able to change and stop being abusive? If not, do you know of anyone first hand? I'm looking for first hand accounts or at least stories about someone you know well, not something you heard through the grapevine or read on the internet.

The reason I'm asking is because I am afraid for my close friend. She is in her late 20s, and got married to her husband very quickly after meeting him. They have been married for 5 years and he has been physically abusive to her for about 4 of those years. I just found this out recently and I am overwhelmed with shock. I don't know how I didn't know and how she kept it a secret for so long.

During the course of their relationship during arguments, he has slapped her, punched her in the arms and legs, hit her with different objects, choked her, and other things like that. The abuse hasn't been so bad that she has been hospitalized, but obviously any abuse is bad enough! 

Last summer, I saw a huge bruise on her arm. It was nearly the size of a softball. She explained it away as a sports injury, which I believed because she is a very physical person who is always running, hiking, playing sports, paint balling, etc. I now know the bruise was from him punching her repeatedly. I never saw anything else. I feel like such a terrible friend for not noticing.

He has promised to stop before and of course hasn't. The most recent promise was 3 weeks ago, and he said he wants to change and go to counseling. He has not been physical with her in the past 3 weeks since the promise and he points to that as evidence that he has changed and is now "cured". However, they have gotten into a few bad arguments where he has been emotionally abusive (calling her stupid, retarded, a b*tch, a w*ore, etc) and where he has threatened to hurt her ("I'm going to slam your head against this counter until your face is covered in blood"). He also spit in her face after she exploded on him and said something nasty after an entire day of being picked on emotionally.

I have personally never heard of a man that was able to stop being abusive. I am hoping to show her this thread so she can get some advice or hear from other people's experiences. 

Thanks all.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

In my opinion,
No.

It is very rare that an abusive man changes whilst in a relationship , because he views his partner as weak and not his equal.

Saying sorry and promising to change is also part of the cycle. Like a pendulum, it goes back and forth.
It goes from point A where things are " normal " then swings through a range of emotions and ends up at point B ,extreme anger and abuse where it goes back to point A.

The only way abusive treatment stops is when the victim leaves . If the abuser seeks professional help, then he might change . But I've never seen it .

A similar dynamic exist with women who are emotionally abusive , and only external, professional help might work.
But these types of personality traits run deep and most times have its roots in early childhood trauma.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Not unless they're dedicated and totally committed to changing. This entails removing themselves from the abusive relationship and undergoing _ intensive, lengthy_ counseling. Even then, apparently the success rate is pretty low. As CM said:-



> But these types of personality traits run deep and most times have its roots in early childhood trauma.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I used to push my old lady around and I didn't like who I became.

your old man has to change for him self and not for you. get out now.

I can tell you one thing is for sure that it does progress.

I started yelling, that went to faking a punch, to grapping her, to throwing her!!!!

And at the end of the day looking at Mrs. the-guy curled up on the floor with snot running out of her nose I knew this was not me!

My point is you can't do sh1t about what your old man does to you except get out.

You can't chnage him...its up to him!

I suggest you leave and then watch from a far.....you may find that he continues to some other chick or you may find that he take action in fixing his @ss and gets help.

But at the end of the day never let him know your watching he has to do this on his own.

the-guy that *used* to beat his wife.

PS
It took 52 sessions of anger managment to stop fighting not only with my old lady but the @sswipe that pissed me off at the store,gas station,highway, or even at my kids school. 

I was not a nice man!

Again this crap will get worse until your old man gets help.


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## fix this (Nov 14, 2012)

My dad used to be one. He was both emotionally and physically abusive to my mom. But he did change overtime, even though it took him about 20 years to become a normal husband, who treats his wife like a partner, rather than a doormat. People are capable of change, but there certainly has to be something to push them towards it, to motivate them, to make them want to change, and i believe it depends on the individual, the kinds of things that would affect them, and make them see things in a different light. For my parents, it had to be my mom walking out on my dad, finding someone else. That made him re-evaluate everything, and he begged for her not to leave him. I'm sure a lot of men wouldn't react that way, some might get even more abusive, some might just go ahead and let a woman go, you need an individual approach in every individual case.


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## txfreespirit (Aug 21, 2013)

I am in a very mentally abusive marriage. It has only gotten worse as time has gone by. I don't see him ever getting better in fact I think he will be physically abusive before long if I don't get out. I don't think it's worth waiting to find out if there is hope he could change.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

txfreespirit said:


> I am in a very mentally abusive marriage. It has only gotten worse as time has gone by. I don't see him ever getting better in fact I think he will be physically abusive before long if I don't get out. I don't think it's worth waiting to find out if there was hope he could change.


I'm sorry to hear that... The only thing that changes in abusive relationships is that they get worse. Don't wait around for it to become physical. You're already feeling the threat that things are escalating, so get out before it does.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Im a Christian, and I try not to be too preachy, but I have seen many men who were abusive, and generaly awful people become wonderful caring men after they gave their life to God.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Thound said:


> Im a Christian, and I try not to be too preachy, but I have seen many men who were abusive, and generaly awful people become wonderful caring men after they gave their life to God.


That's called an " epiphany."
Outside of that its extremely rare that these men change.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I've never seen one change.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I think it is possible BUT it does have to come from them (they don't want to be that person vs they have to change to get what they want). 
While staying in a abusive relationship gives a abuser something/someone to blame and reflect their actions on (if he/she didn't do this I would do that ect) rather than take whole responsibility for their actions, so on the whole abuse gets worse.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

My stbxh is very emotionally abusive. He has only gotten worse with time. I think the only thing that will change him is if a group of really big men beat him within an inch of his life.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> In my opinion,
> No.
> 
> *It is very rare that an abusive man changes whilst in a relationship , because he views his partner as weak and not his equal.*
> ...


:iagree: with CMan.

Abusers are capable of change but rarely when still with the partner they've abused. In this case, your friend has been abused yet is stayed with him. She's marked her price tag really low which is the worse thing she can do if she wanted him to change.

If he's capable of changing then that change won't happen until he's with someone who will not take the abuse. That means she has to change too if they are to do better together.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

SaltInWound said:


> My stbxh is very emotionally abusive. He has only gotten worse with time. I think the only thing that will change him is if a group of really big men beat him within an inch of his life.


I had the same thought.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I don't think they can change. My ex was emotionally abusive for many of our 24 years together. I was young when I met him, and had no idea what abuse was. I thought he was just looking out for my best interests all the time, but it was a way of controling me.

Being in a "normal" relationship now, I don't see any evidence of abuse, but it's been hard to feel "ok" even after 9 months, I keep waiting for something to happen, or sometimes over analysing things he says.

Your friend needs to get out, it probably won't change. And it will destroy her self-esteem.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> :iagree: with CMan.
> 
> Abusers are capable of change but rarely when still with the partner they've abused. In this case, your friend has been abused yet is stayed with him. She's marked her price tag really low which is the worse thing she can do if she wanted him to change.
> 
> If he's capable of changing then that change won't happen until he's with someone who will not take the abuse. That means she has to change too if they are to do better together.


I agree with this, I was young when I met my ex, and had no experience in relationships, I set the bar pretty low. My ex would never change while he was with me, we just had a terrible dynamic anyway. His relationship with another woman seems to be healty (but who knows), she's the type that doesn't take any crap, just what he needed.


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## kezins (Aug 25, 2013)

Change is always possible, but when it comes to character issues, people who do actually change are often faking it to get what they want. The vast majority of abusers are lost causes in my opinion.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I am a former battered spouse. My ex husband started with put downs. It escalated to yelling and all the emotional abuse and manipulation that comes with it.

He eventually started hitting. The interesting thing was, the dynamic wasn't the usual hit-forgive-hit again. He never apologized for socking me. In fact, he justified sucker punching me in the eye by coming up with some completely off-the-wall story that I was cheating on him. I was not. Heck, I was afraid to breathe around the guy. Cheating? Didn't even cross my mind.

Escaping, however, DID cross my mind. The last two years I was in that living hell, I was making plans. I got a better job. I got my financial ducks in a row. And I kept my mouth shut. I was pleasant, but remained detached and distanced myself when I was home. 

Him? He was completely confused. I stopped engaging in the dynamic that fueled his rage. 

The night I left, I had discovered he had an unregistered hand gun in his office. I managed to get out with my cat, most of my clothes, my files, and my life. However, he decided at the last minute that I wasn't going anywhere and followed me out to my car.

I had just gotten into the driver's seat, when he grabbed my hair and attempted to drag me out of the car. I managed to get the car started, slammed it into reverse, and floored it. That threw him off and got me free.

I went to court three days later, got a restraining order, and had his a$$ escorted out by three police cruisers so I could pack my remaining stuff. 

This sounds like something out of TV soap opera. Dramatic? Yeah. But true. And I never went back. I filed for divorce a year later, because I was living in a state where I couldn't file any sooner.

He quickly moved on to a new victim. Narcissist in the most fundamental meaning of the word. Funny thing is, he died alone in bed back in '08. The next door neighbor discovered him after not seeing him come out of the house for several days. 

Me? I stood up to him the night I left. My anger at taking the abuse he dished out for over five years propelled me out the door and out of that awful marriage. 

Suggest your friend get her finances in order, visit a good family law attorney, and plan a quiet exit strategy. Also, have an "escape kit" in the trunk of the car and the whereabouts of the nearest DV shelter for women.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

working_together said:


> I agree with this, I was young when I met my ex, and had no experience in relationships, I set the bar pretty low. My ex would never change while he was with me, we just had a terrible dynamic anyway. His relationship with another woman seems to be healty (but who knows), she's the type that doesn't take any crap, just what he needed.


The crap doesn't usually start until the abuser has somehow managed to isolate their victim from family, friends and support systems, which is usually a slow and insidious process. Up to this point, abusers can be model spouses / partners - because this is how they operate... They are very adept at portraying themselves as the 'ideal' partner, but the warning signs are usually there right from the beginning if you know what to look for (which I didn't). 

Once the trap has been sprung, it can be very difficult for a victim to escape, particularly if the abuser has managed to take charge of the finances (which they usually do). At this stage, standing up to the abuser can be pretty dangerous - no matter how strong a person you are. Carefully and meticulously planning an escape strategy is the only way to go once you've fallen into the clutches of one of these predators.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> The crap doesn't usually start until the abuser has somehow managed to isolate their victim from family, friends and support systems, which is usually a slow and insidious process. Up to this point, abusers can be model spouses / partners - because this is how they operate... They are very adept at portraying themselves as the 'ideal' partner, but the warning signs are usually there right from the beginning if you know what to look for (which I didn't).
> 
> Once the trap has been sprung, it can be very difficult for a victim to escape, particularly if the abuser has managed to take charge of the finances (which they usually do). At this stage, standing up to the abuser can be pretty dangerous - no matter how strong a person you are. Carefully and meticulously planning an escape strategy is the only way to go once you've fallen into the clutches of one of these predators.


I agree by the way Cosmos. I just want to point out that there's no abuser/manipulator handbook and that the dynamics you mentioned play out over and over due to similar character flaws of abusers. Most are not very smart. They get too much credit for being master this or master that. In reality they are slaves to their low character and human nature.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

No.

The only one that will change is SHE. Meaning she will lose more self-esteem, hate herself, live in constant fear.
Or decide to leave.

I never in a million years thought that I would end up in an abusive relationship, but I did.

It's not your fault, and you can't make her leave. But you can support her and get her information.

*IF* this man decides to change he has to do so without her.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I agree by the way Cosmos. I just want to point out that there's no abuser/manipulator handbook and that the dynamics you mentioned play out over and over due to similar character flaws of abusers. Most are not very smart. They get too much credit for being master this or master that. In reality they are slaves to their low character and human nature.


Mine was extremely clever, Thundarr. He was a retired lawyer with a degree in psychology. Quite a lethal combination, all things considered...


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

I only know of one man who, like what Caribbean man said, had an "epiphany" and dedicated his life to God. He did become much nicer to his wife, took better care of her, stopped the abuse, but unfortunately they divorced anyway because she couldn't tolerate the life change. So, I say no.


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## nogoodchoices (Jul 17, 2013)

Get her the book Why Does He Do That?


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

My father was verbally and physically abusive to my mom and the only thing that stoppped it was him on his death bed asking for forgiveness, but by then it was too late.

Abusive people rarely change and when they do they basically have to hit rock bottom, die or see a glimpse of hell in a coma before they change their ways. 

From your friends story that level of abuse is unacceptable. In fact now that you know, its your moral duty to report this to the police. Next time she might be killed and how would you feel? Does she have bruises right now? My cousin was in an abusive relantionship for years until her sister came over and called the cops on the ahole. They came over and she showed her the bruises and the fat lip. They arrested them and the STATE presses charges. 

The sad fact is that abusers do it for control. When they physically abusive they are trying to control the person and would kill them before they regained any sense of freedom. Help your friend now!


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

OP,

Ask your friend to call you next time the abuse happens. Have her come over. If you feel she is in danger call the cops. They will do a welfare check and arrest him if they find he assaulted her. She has to be willing to press charges but some states will charge regardless. 

I also recommend that you take pictures of the bruises.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

txfreespirit said:


> I am in a very mentally abusive marriage. It has only gotten worse as time has gone by. I don't see him ever getting better in fact I think he will be physically abusive before long if I don't get out. I don't think it's worth waiting to find out if there is hope he could change.


Why not start your own thread and get some support?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Find a local domestic violence support facility. Do everything you can to get your friend into counseling there. She needs more help than you can give her. She needs your support as well. But she also needs the support of people who know how to get a victim of physical abuse to get the strength to leave.

It's important for her to leave him only once... to not leave, go back, and then leave again. Why? Because 3 times is the 'charm'. Women who do the back and forth leaving are often killed the 3rd time they try to leave.

Look up "domestic violence exit plan". 

The idea of leaving is overwhelming to her right now. So how does she get the strength to leave? She makes a plan and works it day by day doing one or two small things each day. Then when it comes time to leave, everything is in place and walking out the door is the only planned thing on that one day.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

I really love all the women on here, and how brave everyone is to tell their story, get support and knowledge there is an issue.

I have been reading a lot and it seems men of this nature fall into borderline personality or even psychopathy (not in a serial killer way).

I had a very high paying career and was respected by people that were my friends. When I met this man it was "instant" for him. He showered me with gifts.. one time he gave me dozens of roses for EVERY date we had! Can you imagine that?!

Slowly things were "off" but in a way that I felt bad questioning them. As an example I was at work once and he called me being HYSTERICAL because I wanted some crazy extravagant birthday present. He had asked me for suggestions and I sent him a pic of a bracelet with a price of $30. Somehow in his twisted mind I wanted the one that was $3000 and he couldn't afford that. I spent my day feeling guilty for making him feel so "pressured". This happened over and over...

He also started saying weird things about my friends, and accused me of keeping him away from his, and his family.

You soon start losing your grip on reality. And if you are a "good person" it's almost certain your "good intentions" will come before thinking about why this man is manipulating you.

I was shocked that after 2 or 3 months of marriage my husband went to a bachelor party (that he said he didn't want to go to) came home drunk at 8am and first things started yelling at me. How I didn't want him to go to the party, and what a B I am and his family is everything and all I do is ruin his life. He then proceeded to throw anything and everything.

And that cycle repeats itself.

You get LOST. You feel guilty for thinking about leaving, because they warped your mind so much and made you think this way.

I find what men who do this are somehow broken. And we can't fix them. There is no amount of training you could have to make him get help. Worst of all they would usually manipulate the marriage counselling. Using it against you and getting more violent. I experienced this first hand. Men link this will manipulate an average counselor and on top of it make revelations that only hurt you. Then they blame you and the MC for not working after 2 sessions. 

These people have no way to even see that what they do is wrong. They are driven by impulse. 

My ex was so crushed about our relationship he found another girl in 2 weeks, probably feeding her the same lies as he did me (all of his exes are terrible women who just took advantage of HIM)

There are also specific ways to get away from someone who you think has a personality disorder. A lot of this involves (as disgusting as it is) for you to be so bland, so caring about him and his life that you basically have to say the marriage isn't working because of YOU. And you want him to be happy.

This is how he let me go. Although he has continued to make my as much life a living hell, he cannot find me or hurt me as much as he did.

I made the mistake of being "nice" and not taking 1/2 the finances. He cleaned me out. And I have suffered tremendously. But you know what? Depending on your state it is obvious to the judge this is someone who abused their "perceived power" in the split.

Physically and mentally you have to be safe first, then think of legal options. But don't be afraid to take 1/2 of the assets so you can at least have basic needs met.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> bunny23 said:-
> 
> I find what men who do this are somehow broken. And we can't fix them. There is no amount of training you could have to make him get help. Worst of all they would usually manipulate the marriage counselling. Using it against you and getting more violent. I experienced this first hand. Men link this will manipulate an average counselor and on top of it make revelations that only hurt you. Then they blame you and the MC for not working after 2 sessions.


And it's for this reason that couple counseling doesn't work with an abuser. If anything, what they learn about their partner in counseling is simply added to their bag of tricks and used to abuse further.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> And it's for this reason that couple counseling doesn't work with an abuser. If anything, what they learn about their partner in counseling is simply added to their bag of tricks and used to abuse further.


Interesting.

Never heard that perspective, but it makes sense.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Never heard that perspective, but it makes sense.


You don't hang around enough psychopaths.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Never heard that perspective, but it makes sense.


The problems with MC and abusive relationships is that it focuses on the relationship dynamics rather than the abuse itself. 

Abusers focus on their own feelings and other people's behaviour and will always blame shift and manipulate in order to somehow validate the abuse. If they own the abuse, they have no option but to look at themselves, and that can be too scary a place for them to go, and MC just isn't equipped to cope with that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Can abusive men change?

They can but the question is, WILL they?

Anyone can stop any behavior. However, abusers tend to get worse over time.

It's like it is something ingrained in them. It's because they don't see what they are doing as wrong. They think it's fine to treat their partner/spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend/child that way. 

You sound like a good friend for being concerned. Did she tell you about the abuse or you heard it from someone else? You could reach out to her and offer your support and tell her it's not ok, offer her the book "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft (contains amazing information and can be checked out free at your local library probably) or purchased online. 

The thing is: she has a choice. So you can offer her all the support in the world, but only if she wants to will she leave him. That's the bad thing. But you can certainly offer to hep her/ support her. Just know, at the end of the day, whether she stays or not is her decision.

I was once in an emotionally abusive relationship. It never stopped. There would be glimmers of hope and light and sunshine but he would always revert back to the berating, blaming, rudeness, intolerance, double standards. I left and never looked back.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> The crap doesn't usually start until the abuser has somehow managed to isolate their victim from family, friends and support systems, which is usually a slow and insidious process. Up to this point, abusers can be model spouses / partners - because this is how they operate... They are very adept at portraying themselves as the 'ideal' partner'


Yep!



Thundarr said:


> Most are not very smart. They get too much credit for being master this or master that. In reality they are slaves to their low character and human nature.


I respectfully disagree somewhat. Yes, I agree that they themselves have a low character but some abusers are criminally smart and super manipulative. An art all in its own. IT's because of the sociopathic/narcissistic tendencies they have. They have no empathy so they are able to charm anyone out of anything/into anything and leave a ton of smoke in their wake as they walk off. 

Scary.



Cosmos said:


> And it's for this reason that couple counseling doesn't work with an abuser. If anything, what they learn about their partner in counseling is simply added to their bag of tricks and used to abuse further.


:iagree:

Most abusers will find a way to manipulate a counselor/te therapy and just play on everything the therapist said the partner was doing wrong. 

Eek.


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## christine30 (Mar 23, 2010)

From experience as you can see on some of my posted threads - I have finally came out of an abusive and controlling relationship. I was with him for 3 years and I allowed him to control me thinking that was him caring, and each time he got upset ( especially over the most stupidest things with me- he would hit me in my head, call me names -then turn around and tell me he loves me. ) he even tried to suffocate me once and I still tried go back.. We had broke up for a week and went back and he had realize that I was his world.. but deep down I felt scared not content anymore. I felt that something or somehow he would lash out on me again. I do not think they will change - it would take a life changing situation for them to change, their philosophy on life is so deeply intake mentally - that it will resurface again. 
so I truly doubt they can change-- especially when they know they can get away with the person they are with.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I'm glad that you escaped and survived, Christine30.


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## sunray (May 12, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> And it's for this reason that couple counseling doesn't work with an abuser. If anything, what they learn about their partner in counseling is simply added to their bag of tricks and used to abuse further.


Yes they do. In my case my H started sharing personal things discussed in MC with friends and family. He did this to embarrass me. However, it back fired on him and everyone he told thinks he's the biggest A-hole.:scratchhead: The way he gets me under control is buy belittling me in public, calling me horrible names, telling me to F off or F myself, or that he can't stand me and is sick of my BS. It's usually because he thinks he's not going to get laid even though no indication has been made other wise. 

This interesting thing is that they fight us with a divorce. I always wonder why that is. He apparently hates me, wouldn't he welcome the chance to be rid of me? My therapist says it's because once the divorce happens so does exposure but the thing is, my H thinks he's a great guy. He doesn't have any problems, everyone else does. He's going to lose his job some day I just know it. No, he's not afraid of exposure, he literally thinks he's perfect.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sunray said:


> This interesting thing is that they fight us with a divorce..


Because they've lost control of you and are not calling the shots anymore.

Classic narcissism.

See, you have now done them wrong and they are going to make you pay and make you regret it.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

i agree with vast majority posting here - in effect the answer is a flat no...they cannot change. like any fundamental part of somone's personality...it is only changeable through intense behavioral/cognitive therapy - lasting years. the abuser must commit to that....but they much more likely to deny that they really have a problem, let alone spend years in IC.

I think there are a lot of parallels among physical abuse, emotional abuse and sexual infidelity. the principal result of each of these is humiliation of the abused/victim. Physical assaults on a wife don't often produce lasting injury, but they DO always humilate her. The emotional abuse that is often coupled with it reinforces that humiliation. 

I really think that if the issue is physical abuse, the only answer is divorce - in practically every case. Just as I think if the issue is infidelity, the best solution is usually divorce. Humiliation cannot be tolerated if the victim is to retain their identity; their dignity....its that simple, IMHO.


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## jodilee (Aug 31, 2013)

I was married for ten years to an abusive man. He was a control freak and would go in rages yelling and threatening me, even putting loaded guns to my head. He did slam my face into a wood arm of the couch and ruin my front teeth. After 10yrs of it I got tired of it to the point that when he put that loaded gun to my head I would beg him to just pull the trigger. I stopped being scared of him and it was my fear of him that he loved so much. He thrived off making me scared of him. When I stopped being scared he sought out a new victim and had an affair with a woman that was being abused already by her husband. The two are now married and i'm free of him which changed my life for the better and attained a good career and life for myself but I have trust issues cuz of him now and run from any relationship that the man may be anything like that. I don't know if they change or not but for ten years I would take the abuse and he would cry and act like a little baby after trying to make me feel sorry for him. I doubt he changed.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

sunray said:


> Yes they do. In my case my H started sharing personal things discussed in MC with friends and family. He did this to embarrass me. However, it back fired on him and everyone he told thinks he's the biggest A-hole.:scratchhead: The way he gets me under control is buy belittling me in public, calling me horrible names, telling me to F off or F myself, or that he can't stand me and is sick of my BS. It's usually because he thinks he's not going to get laid even though no indication has been made other wise.
> 
> This interesting thing is that they fight us with a divorce. I always wonder why that is. He apparently hates me, wouldn't he welcome the chance to be rid of me? My therapist says it's because once the divorce happens so does exposure but the thing is, my H thinks he's a great guy. He doesn't have any problems, everyone else does. He's going to lose his job some day I just know it. No, he's not afraid of exposure, he literally thinks he's perfect.


You can bet your life that he knows all too well that he's far from perfect, and that's why (like most abusers) he spends so much time creating smoke screens to make you look bad and focusing on the perceived imperfections of others. It HAS to be someone else's fault, because if it isn't it means that the abuser has to to take responsibility for their own outrageous behaviour.


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## Ladymoon (Sep 17, 2013)

Hi, i can relate to some of this, my partner has been emotionally and mentally abusive since I moved in with her 2 years ago. Well that's not true, after our last separation (3 months) she got counselling and did change....the problem is I can see the early warning signs that the cycle might be starting up again. 

Even if he does change you'll be on guard all the time watching for warning signs and even if the abuse doesn't start up again you will never trust him completely again. Abuse damages the fabric of a relationship and you will never get back what you had at the beginning. 

I honestly wish I had left when we separated and called it a day then. It looks like we're headed that way anyway and I need to go through all the heartache and the practical nightmare of sorting out finances and a place to stay. 

Get out while you can is my advice.

Sharon


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## Ladymoon (Sep 17, 2013)

We also tried relationship counselling but I stopped going after a few session, I felt unable to trust my partner and she started using stuff I'd revealed in therapy against me. It was anything but constructive, I was made to feel that I was being over sensitive and not caring about how my partner felt. The counselor just didn't grasp the abuse that was going on - my partner is also a great charmer and can be very convincing. You believe that she sincerely means what she says and she can turn the tears on anytime. She had the counselor fooled but by that point I'd seen it all and it made me sick.


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

No. Is there an excuse for the abuse? One you can address and fix? No. It gets worse with time. Get out. That advice was given to me by a PRIEST! I did not listen. 

There is no excuse for abuse.

If he ever does anything physical, report it to the police to protect yourself. If he will not leave, and they do not like to leave! Call the police.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

Reading this thread helped me CONFIRM the by STBXH has truly emotionally abused me for years. 

If their abuse stems from infancy/childhood neglect, there is no way they are going to change. NO DAMN WAY !!!!

Much love and peace to all the posters who have endured ANY form of abuse from their spouse.

VH


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

Emotional/Psychological abuse is horrible, it changes the way you think and act and eventually you start to harm yourself as much if not more than the primary abuser.

It took me a whole year after my divorce, well 11 months to be exact, to see how bad the emotional abuse I received damaged me and hurt my functioning.

Good luck on your journey VeryHurt.


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## Navy3 (Apr 27, 2012)

my husband has been abusive mentally, emotionally, physically - hit once, blocking me in, holding, shaking, face in mine,pushing,squaring up to me & financially. still can't believe i'm saying/ having to admit this. I never thought i'd be experiencing domestic abuse.

I'm in the UK, went to the Freedom Programme . I asked the leaders in all the courses they've done for women have they EVER known a women say her abuser stopped for good. they said no, it usually gets worse. it stopping is very very rare,if ever. they said that even the abuser going for help didn't mean it'd stop.
I got so upset, suppose it "wasn't what I wanted to hear", I was shaking, crying,totally wrecked.

right now i'm in the flowers/promises stage. I watch him & wonder if he's stopped... then a minor row last night, he started glaring at me - I did hear MY voice challenge him & telling him to "stop that" - surprised myself!

we've been married a long time & i'm disabled. his financial abuse has meant I've had no £. i'm trying to save bits but we/he has a lot of debt.
he's being so "nice" at the moment. 

it feels like waiting for the final straw.
so sad to read no one says it stopped.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Navy3 said:


> my husband has been abusive mentally, emotionally, physically - hit once, blocking me in, holding, shaking, face in mine,pushing,squaring up to me & financially. still can't believe i'm saying/ having to admit this. I never thought i'd be experiencing domestic abuse.
> 
> I'm in the UK, went to the Freedom Programme . I asked the leaders in all the courses they've done for women have they EVER known a women say her abuser stopped for good. they said no, it usually gets worse. it stopping is very very rare,if ever. they said that even the abuser going for help didn't mean it'd stop.
> I got so upset, suppose it "wasn't what I wanted to hear", I was shaking, crying,totally wrecked.
> ...


Navy, there's a lot of help available to you in the UK. Please visit this site:- Refuge - Domestic Violence Help | Domestic Abuse Charity

Please don't wait for that final straw... You've been abused enough and there's a whole new world out there that doesn't involve abuse.


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## Navy3 (Apr 27, 2012)

thankyou. i'm in touch with women's aid. I sense their frustration that I've not left....yet. I didn't realise how much we cling to the "hope".

to the lady who's friend is experiencing this i'd really recommend the Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft, someone here told me about it - it's v good& has helped. to have a friend to talk too is the most HUGE blessing, keep supporting her even if you feel frustrated with her. I was advised to read about Traumatic Bonding - it struck a cord & horrified me! I've got 1 friend who I talk too.

I've put 2 boundaries in, any more debt - its over & I won't lend any more £ to bail him out off my family
&
if he hits me it's over. 
the last 1 is a bit vague though - what about intimidation? what about dominating? glares? 

another person said it changes the fabric of the relationship - SO true! even if he never does it again it's ALWAYS a scare INCASE he does now, that fear in itself is controlling, not knowing is in itself a threat - does that make sense??

my husband is VERY charming, it doesn't work on me now.


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## jen53 (Apr 26, 2013)

still stuck, trying to detach - looking back my husband has always been the same, I can't see him changing. Just this minute he said about charinging son for bracket for his TV, when son had one already which he ws OK with - I said it wasn't really fair to expect son to pay for whole bracket as it was husband who decided this one was better. I got a scowl and he said I won't use it then, I'll use nails to fix it to this wall(bedroom) then stormed off - I am left feeling as if I cannot say anything and am being unreasonable once again, I know the way he works, it was a "threat" to ruin the wall, as you cannot "nail" a TV bracket to a wall  it isn't physical but it is constant threats of breaking things or not doing something I need doing I spend time looking at what I said and how I caused him to be so angry, half the time doubting myself, this on top of his other issues of intimacy - I know I need IC tbh, to clarify in my mind and get it out about everything so I can see it isn't me who is making him like this


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## Navy3 (Apr 27, 2012)

they do make you doubt yourself! it got so bad for me I started writing little things down he said ie what time he was working 'til because he'll arrive at different times & then deny it.
I thought I was losing it - stay strong in your own head- give yourself some positive "self talk" even if you don't dare speak it out loud. water what he say's down!

re leaving, i'd need a lot of help,i can't carry boxes etc -walk with a walking aid. unless it escalated dramatically - then it'd be my bag & a clean pair of knickers!

I keep looking at him & wondering if he's stopped, & there won't be any more... he say's it won't happen again. The Freedom Prog. say they make a choice, they don't abuse people at work etc. so can they just choose to stop??
he looked angry last night, nothing happened but it's that i'm now heightened to sensing things with him.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Navy3 said:


> I keep looking at him & wondering if he's stopped, & there won't be any more... he say's it won't happen again. The Freedom Prog. say they make a choice, they don't abuse people at work etc. so can they just choose to stop??
> he looked angry last night, nothing happened but it's that i'm now heightened to sensing things with him.


Mine gave me a letter from his doctor saying that he'd been fast tracked for anger management, and he gave me a signed document stating that he would never do any of the vile things he had been doing ever again. Within 3 weeks (if not sooner), it was 'business' as usual with his tantrums, sulks, silent treatment and me getting kicked out of the house in the middle of the night.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

"I'm not proud of it, but I'm not beating myself up over it." 

That is what my fiancé said to me last weekend when discussing his physical assaults on me since last November. He is neutral about it. 

I need to not engage in arguments with him. Don't stick up for myself. Let him rule his domain as he sees fit if I don't want anything bad to happen. 

He may not be trying to cheat anymore, but he has replaced it with something else. How sick is it that I would take getting punched square in the face, blood everywhere over the feeling of being cheated on again.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

lisab0105 said:


> "I'm not proud of it, but I'm not beating myself up over it."
> 
> That is what my fiancé said to me last weekend when discussing his physical assaults on me since last November. He is neutral about it.
> 
> ...


I hope you have plans to leave this 'man?'


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

2galsmom said:


> Emotional/Psychological abuse is horrible, it changes the way you think and act and eventually you start to harm yourself as much if not more than the primary abuser.
> 
> It took me a whole year after my divorce, well 11 months to be exact, to see how bad the emotional abuse I received damaged me and hurt my functioning.
> 
> Good luck on your journey VeryHurt.


Gal's Mom:

Thank you. Good Luck to you as well.

VH


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## BLACKSCORPIO (Aug 8, 2013)

My husband has been physically and verbally abusive in the past. I would try to tell him it was ruining our relationship. I hid it from the kids (at least I thought).

Our last episode happened at least a year ago. My oldest daughter called the police. He has not been physical since. 

The verbal abuse continued, not as bad. He found out I had an affair and some other man was interested in me.

Well guess what he has promised to never hit me or call me a name etc...

He has not hit me, he has not called me any names. But I notice his rage or loudness when arguing has increased. He knows that I will call the police and leave if he ever touches me again.

At times I know he feels trapped he wants to blow up, but has not.

Only time will tell.

But my promise to myself is if he ever LAYS a hand on me again im out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Navy3 said:


> re leaving, i'd need a lot of help,i can't carry boxes etc -walk with a walking aid. unless it escalated dramatically - then it'd be my bag & a clean pair of knickers!


Navy, I'm glad you're finally starting to look at concrete plans to leave. About moving stuff, here's what you do. Find a friend who will hold your stuff for you. Every day you can leave the house, pick one piece of clothing, one lamp, one box of lightbulbs, whatever, and carry that with you to your friend's house. Leave it there. One piece at a time. It will be so gradual he won't notice. Once you're ready to leave, you won't NEED to take anything but the clothes on your back.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lisab said:


> "I'm not proud of it, but I'm not beating myself up over it."
> 
> That is what my fiancé said to me last weekend when discussing his physical assaults on me since last November. He is neutral about it.
> 
> ...


lisa, you mean EX-fiancé, RIGHT?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ladymoon said:


> Hi, i can relate to some of this, my partner has been emotionally and mentally abusive since I moved in with her 2 years ago. Well that's not true, after our last separation (3 months) she got counselling and did change....the problem is I can see the early warning signs that the cycle might be starting up again.


So what are you going to do when it starts?


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

turnera said:


> So what are you going to do when it starts?



Right... the cycle continues. Do you think the cycle can be broken indefinitely?

I would tend to argue that some people fall into the personality disorder spectrum and probably cannot change.. while others have bad habits that can be broken.

But as I have said somewhere else.. MC is not the answer, it's usually interventional counseling.
And that person needs to want to change.

I have found that in my example my stbx's version of change is going to 1 session if mc and screaming at me as to why it didn't "cure" us.

No thanks, life is too short


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Originally Posted by lisab
> "I'm not proud of it, but I'm not beating myself up over it."
> 
> That is what my fiancé said to me last weekend when discussing his physical assaults on me since last November. He is neutral about it.
> ...


The good news here, though, is that you don't have to tolerate either, Lisa...


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

Lisab, don't say that, trust me you do not want to get hit in the face. The only good news there is you could call the cops if you lived. Please, you can live without a cheater and can marry someone far better.


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## Navy3 (Apr 27, 2012)

I find this all so hard. I know it's abuse, I know I don't trust him anymore, I know, I know. i'm scared. scared to carry on like this for the rest of my life & scared of living with a whole new set of "consequences". it feels like i'm in a no win situation. I feel so trapped. 

the reality is I could end up living God knows where, I've got v little money, i'm on benefits with a disability & i'd lose my carer overnight, strangers coming in to help with personal care is heartbreaking. I couldn't bare to live in the same town & see him with someone else. I've been with him since i was a teenager, i'm almost 50 now. no wonder women in this situation end up suicidal.

once you've experienced abuse you always live in fear of it repeating, any signs of his anger/temper & you're "on alert" trying to read the signs, going into auto pilot to sooth him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Navy, you're going to be fine. You're getting help, you're improving yourself, you're smart. I'm 55 and if I had to, I would find a way to start over, with nothing. In fact, I often daydream of just finding a room to rent in some older single lady's home and living a calm, peaceful life for the next 20-40 years. Alone. 

Once you get away from him, you will be AMAZED at how strong you start feeling. Like many other abuse victims, you have been brainwashed to believe you are incapable, unworthy, unloveable. NONE of that is true, and once you are away from the one person who keeps TELLING you that, that feeling will start to fade away.


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## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

My H has been emotionally and verbally abusive, though he's never touched me in anger.

I almost moved out last month, which spurred him to get on anti-anxiety drugs and go to MC with me. We've gone twice, but my therapist seems very sympathetic to my H's anxiety problems, which worries me, as I feel like he uses anxiety for an excuse. I'm sticking with the MC for a little longer, though.

So far the only thing that's changed is that he hasn't yelled or sworn at me, but the manipulation and gas-lighting is still going on. I'm getting insulted and belittled in a sulky, hurt, condescending voice instead of a loud, angry one. He has told me my attempts to be assertive are "poorly done" and in the middle of arguments he'll randomly change the subject to how hard his life is or all the times he's _almost_ bought me expensive gifts but then I hurt his feelings so much that forget it, he won't buy me anything.  I've told him I don't *need* expensive gifts, and then he says things like "oh, I know, you don't like gifts. What kind of husband can't even buy his wife a gift? How am I supposed to feel about that?" Which is ridiculous, I love gifts, I just don't like being manipulated with them.

In short, every conversation is all about him, but he keeps telling me I'm the one who's self-centered. 

So by my experience so far, abusers may change their approach, but not their attitudes.

And for turnera--yes, I am putting my "leaving for real" plan into place, and yes, I did several times walk out on his rages before he started this quieter phase. Thanks for all your good advice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Start leaving when you are insulted, ok?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Chaotic, couple counseling is rarely a good idea with an abuser. As you've found out, they often manipulate the therapist and simply learn new tactics and a new language with which to abuse.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

No, the abuse never changes, sad, but true. I was 18 when I met my ex, and stayed until I was 44, it was a huge decision to make, I had never lived alone, and I had two small children to support.

You can't change them, and what I realized is that not setting proper boundaries of what I will and will not accept in terms of his behavior towards me, set the stage of our entire relationship. When I requested we get help, we went to so many therapists, he would yell at me when he felt they were taking sides, and then we would go to another therapist. The last one said to me in private that my ex needed to change and that it was unhealthy for my children. That night I asked him to leave. I never looked back, I got tired of hearing "you were nothing when I met you, and you're still nothing" amongst many other cruel things. The worst of it was the control, and making things all about him.

I know I was not perfect, but he never let me forget my mistakes, and yet his were always over looked.

I'm much happier, and in a better place.....life goes on even when you think it doesn't.


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## Navy3 (Apr 27, 2012)

Chaotic, my husband's counsellor suggested couples counselling for us. there is NO WAY i'd go with him. he is too charming, cunning, I just don't trust him. if you read up on the net over& over different sites say MC is no good in abusive relationships, there is a imbalance of power. 

abuse stops firmly at the abusers feet. no excuses, "I was drunk, I was tired, she wouldn't shut up, she wound me up, a red mist came down, I just lost it, she presses my buttons...." all excuses. 

have you ready Lundy Bancroft's book ? 

I agree, they just change tactic's. read up on it,it really helps.


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

txfreespirit said:


> I am in a very mentally abusive marriage. It has only gotten worse as time has gone by. I don't see him ever getting better in fact I think he will be physically abusive before long if I don't get out. I don't think it's worth waiting to find out if there is hope he could change.


Then, when will you be leaving? Soon I hope.


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

I know first hand - an abuser will stay an abuser. They don't change. They may change what they do and how they do it, but the bottom line is control, power and to throw you off guard. 
Manipulation is their game.

Don't bring kids into the mix - please!


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