# No Discussion Surprise Divorce



## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Let me start off by saying that prior to being served with divorce papers, my wife and I went to couple therapy. We were not making great progress there and during COVID-19 protocols, we just stopped our therapy. In hindsight we did not have the right therapist. I was aware that our marriage was in a bad way and we were clearly both unhappy with the situation.

One day she just handed me divorce papers and left the house without returning for several days. I was shocked. We had not discussed divorce. She did not tell me that she was going to be divorcing me. It turns out that she did meet with each of our adult children to tell them a few days prior, but not me.

I felt the the trust of our relationship had been betrayed by this surprise divorce. I had been working frantically on remodeling our home since losing my job. The plan was that we would sell the house and move out West together. The plan was not without risk since she had been out of work for six months. After I worked a month of 12-hour days on remodeling the house, she handed me the divorce papers, knowing full well for that entire month that we were not moving out West together. With the savings spent to remodel the house, I had no money for an attorney. She, on the other hand, had an inheritance she received three years prior and held out of the marriage. This gave her money for an attorney and to buy the remodeled home from me.

Her take on the situation is that she just had enough of the marriage and the timing was not some devious plan. She felt like she suffered in the marriage and now she was done suffering. She clearly has no interest in sharing half of her inheritance in the divorce.

Is my experience typical? Did most of you have a surprise divorce? If so, did you feel betrayed? If you were the person doing the surprising, did you do so in order to have an upper hand in your divorce strategy?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

What were her concerns throughout the marriage, given she had never discussed divorce? What was she unhappy about, and was she 100% on board with the renovation or the move?


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> What were her concerns throughout the marriage, given she had never discussed divorce? What was she unhappy about, and was she 100% on board with the renovation or the move?


I feel like you are sidestepping my discussion and questions. Are you suggesting that I am hiding something? This was not some abusive marriage if that is what you are wondering. At this point we can say that she was not on board with the move. In all actuality, she would have been right to suggest that we call off the move because of our lack of employment, but she stated that calling off the move would not help the situation when I tried to save the marriage. As for the renovation, she loves it. The house is now everything we could not make it when the kids were with us still. 

She felt marginalized. She felt barely tolerated.

I also had feelings. I felt pushed away. I felt emotionally abandoned. She had withdrawn herself from the marriage. She had not been intimate for two years. There was no attempt on her part to tell me what she needed and ask for change from me.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

No no, not at all, just trying to understand why the sudden decision on her part. It seems more calculated and that her decision may have been made a long time ago. I may be wrong about that too. Sorry you’re in this position.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Exactly what did her “suffering in the marriage” look like?

yes, I surprised my exH with a divorce. He betrayed me. Twice. At that point I was done.
I was not unfair in the divorce.

is she paying you half of the homes’ appraised value since she is buying you out?


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> No no, not at all, just trying to understand why the sudden decision on her part. It seems more calculated and that her decision may have been made a long time ago. I may be wrong about that too. Sorry you’re in this position.


We were married for 37 years. I definitely was critical of her at times. I have since learned that criticism is a destructive force in relationships.

She is a person who withdraws when she feels a lot of emotion. Just as the criticism is bad. Withdrawal and stonewalling are also a bad response. Over the years we were not getting at the emotional hurts between us and repairing them. We were not keeping the marriage healthy. We were no longer appreciating on another.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Exactly what did her “suffering in the marriage” look like?
> 
> yes, I surprised my exH with a divorce. He betrayed me. Twice. At that point I was done.
> I was not unfair in the divorce.
> ...


Her "suffering" was mostly through criticism. As we grew older, I wanted less processed and junk food in the house. I wanted to stay active and exercise. She was not interested in these things. She felt judged for her position. That is a fair assessment. I felt that she was not being concerned enough about health as her weight and sedentary lifestyle resulted in diabetes. 

While she will pay me half of the value of the house, I would not have spent the time and money renovating it if she told me she wanted a divorce. I would have been out looking for a job. In addition, I always showed my love for her through acts of service. Serving the divorce papers after all of that work on our home felt like a betrayal, like she stole that work from me. In addition, she would not settle with me until I finished the renovation, so that she would not have to pay to have it done. It caused me great emotional pain to complete that work, but not completing it would not allow me to get to the end. She was going to subtract the cost of finishing the house from my portion of the house value.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Let’s put aside what did happen on your part. This current part does sound calculated and cruel, I understand what you’re saying. We did know a couple in a similar situation and it was devastating for the wife. He basically renovated the house to get more sale value and then asked for a divorce. You must be feeling angry and used in this instance.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

What I find very surprising is that none of your adult children told you about your wife’s plans. Are you estranged from them, did your criticism of your wife extend to your children also?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

OnwardNUpward said:


> We were married for 37 years. I definitely was critical of her at times. I have since learned that criticism is a destructive force in relationships.
> 
> She is a person who withdraws when she feels a lot of emotion.


This couldn't be more true. My husband was like this, and actually has gotten better with it. It's a huge turn off. She probably got sick of feeling like she had to walk on eggshells all the time, if she did.

Everyone has their way of coping with things when their needs are not met. Mine is that I check out other guys, flirt a little here and there. Never went anywhere thank God, and I'm not sure why I choose this coping mechanism, but that's what I do. I guess your wife withdrew. Probably got tired of having the same discussions and it going nowhere.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Her "suffering" was mostly through criticism. As we grew older, I wanted less processed and junk food in the house. I wanted to stay active and exercise. She was not interested in these things. She felt judged for her position. That is a fair assessment. I felt that she was not being concerned enough about health as her weight and sedentary lifestyle resulted in diabetes.
> 
> While she will pay me half of the value of the house, I would not have spent the time and money renovating it if she told me she wanted a divorce. I would have been out looking for a job. In addition, I always showed my love for her through acts of service. Serving the divorce papers after all of that work on our home felt like a betrayal, like she stole that work from me. In addition, she would not settle with me until I finished the renovation, so that she would not have to pay to have it done. It caused me great emotional pain to complete that work, but not completing it would not allow me to get to the end. She was going to subtract the cost of finishing the house from my portion of the house value.


It does sound mercenry of her to wait till you had done all that work before she gave you the papers. Also that she kept all of her inheritance for herself and didnt bring it into the marriage We have both had inheritances, not very large, but we always saw them as ours and not his or mine. Can you use a little of the money she gave you for the house for lawyers fees?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

She’s had this planned from the moment she got her inheritance.

You can wallow in this which will get you nothing. Or let her go.

Go hard no contact and get the most you can out of the settlement.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Her take on the situation is that she just had enough of the marriage and the timing was not some devious plan. She felt like she suffered in the marriage and now she was done suffering. She clearly has no interest in sharing half of her inheritance in the divorce.


This was a lie. She’s a walk away wife. Google it For more info.

You do not matter to her except on what it’s going to take to get rid of you.

Sorry man but you are going to have to figure out your end.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'd use the work you did on the renovations as part of divorce negotiations. You should receive some sort of compensation for that.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> What I find very surprising is that none of your adult children told you about your wife’s plans. Are you estranged from them, did your criticism of your wife extend to your children also?


She met with them over the course of three days and asked each of them not to say anything because she was planning to talk to me shortly. Nobody wants to see their mother unhappy or their father for that matter. Three of my children have a very similar interaction style to my spouse. They had seen our dysfunctional interaction. They could relate to their mother's emotional flooding and withdrawal because they each had their own anxiety and similar relationship experiences. The one child who has a different interaction style was still living at home. He made it a point to be gone on the weekend that the divorce was announced. He felt that his silence while living at the house was going to be seen as taking a side. He was visibly uncomfortable. I assured him that my only expectation was that he support, show respect and pray for both of his parents. I gave that message to all of my children. My son who lived at the house through the divorce saw how the demands for me to complete the remodel work tore me apart. I wailed and sobbed the whole time I did that work.

What I am trying to get at in this discussion is the aspect of the divorce as a planned attack. I guess it makes sense that I someone decides that divorce is ok as an option, then it is a weapon to be wielded against someone who is now seen as an oppressor, one who deserves to be held in contempt.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OnwardNUpward said:


> She met with them over the course of three days and asked each of them not to say anything because she was planning to talk to me shortly. Nobody wants to see their mother unhappy or their father for that matter. Three of my children have a very similar interaction style to my spouse. They had seen our dysfunctional interaction. They could relate to their mother's emotional flooding and withdrawal because they each had their own anxiety and similar relationship experiences. The one child who has a different interaction style was still living at home. He made it a point to be gone on the weekend that the divorce was announced. He felt that his silence while living at the house was going to be seen as taking a side. He was visibly uncomfortable. I assured him that my only expectation was that he support, show respect and pray for both of his parents. I gave that message to all of my children. My son who lived at the house through the divorce saw how the demands for me to complete the remodel work tore me apart. I wailed and sobbed the whole time I did that work.
> 
> What I am trying to get at in this discussion is the aspect of the divorce as a planned attack. I guess it makes sense that I someone decides that divorce is ok as an option, then it is a weapon to be wielded against someone who is now seen as an oppressor, one who deserves to be held in contempt.


Bud, your kids did as *she* asked them. They had a choice and made it.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I'd use the work you did on the renovations as part of divorce negotiations. You should receive some sort of compensation for that.


I stated that in my hurt anger at first. I did not get an attorney initially. I tried to get her to attend therapy with me. I made many offers to resolve the divorce without further legal intervention. She was not interested in settling. I went through a difficult depression. After that cleared I got an attorney. We eventually came to terms. She got to keep the house without paying me for my labor. We each kept our own retirement funds that were of similar value. Because she spent ten years home with the kids when they were little, she received an additional $30,000 value of the house in lieu of spousal support. 


Fighting her was going to end up in total financial ruin. I have no financial resources to tap into. She on the other hand kept her inheritance out of the marriage and is able to use it to pay her legal fees. I still do not have a job. I have three dogs to feed. By the grace of God and kind friends I have enough money to feed the dogs for now and my older brother found me an apartment that would allow me to have the three dogs. I do think that my spouse is bringing this to an end because she has want she needs and destroying me at this point does nothing good to the family unit. My children are well aware that the depression brought me very near to death.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> It does sound mercenry of her to wait till you had done all that work before she gave you the papers. Also that she kept all of her inheritance for herself and didnt bring it into the marriage We have both had inheritances, not very large, but we always saw them as ours and not his or mine. Can you use a little of the money she gave you for the house for lawyers fees?


All of my money will come to me in the form of her retirement funds. i will be able to access some of that money in the next few months. The lawyer debt will get paid. Life will go on. 

I am seeing how some people here who come from the side of bringing the divorce definitely see divorce as their weapon against an oppressor. I clearly see my criticism as a destructive force in our marriage, but I refuse to see someone who would not work in therapy to save their marriage as purely a victim. The fact that I am suffering should indicate that I care about my marriage.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> Bud, your kids did as *she* asked them. They had a choice and made it.


If your point is that my children do not love me and see this divorce as good riddance, first of all what a callous unkind thing to think. Secondly, what difference would it make for them to tell me a day before the divorce papers were served? Would you do that to your mother if she came to you in her unhappiness and shared that she was divorcing your father?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I am sorry for your pain. Do not let your anger eat away at you. It will hurt you, not her. She wanted out and it takes two to work on healing a marriage. Focusing on your losses is a dead end. Perhaps a new start will be a good thing.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OnwardNUpward said:


> If your point is that my children do not love me and see this divorce as good riddance, first of all what a callous unkind thing to think. Secondly, what difference would it make for them to tell me a day before the divorce papers were served? Would you do that to your mother if she came to you in her unhappiness and shared that she was divorcing your father?


Nope, they just have more of an allegiance to her. I get it puts them in an awkward place but you are their father as much as she is their mother.

You matter too. They saw you working hard on the home and then her dumping you right after and taking full advantage. WTH? What kind of person does this?

If they are smart they’ll wonder how much she thinks of them.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

[kQUOTE="sunsetmist, post: 20255153, member: 332433"]
I am sorry for your pain. Do not let your anger eat away at you. It will hurt you, not her. She wanted out and it takes two to work on healing a marriage. Focusing on your losses is a dead end. Perhaps a new start will be a good thing.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you. I think that I am able to move forward now. I have grieved longer and harder than I thought a human being could grieve. This has been harder than grieving a death because I am partly at fault for the loss and I am unable to control the fact that she would not engage to work on repairing the marriage. I will undoubtedly grieve this forever, but now I need to move onward. I have three dogs that depend on me for their care and I know that my children are going to need me too as they navigate their adult lives.

There will be good days ahead. I have accepted that I failed my spouse and children before God. I own that failure. I also accept God's forgiveness and the things I cannot change that are beyond my control. I do have some anger toward my wife. In all of this she has treated me as though I am a book of the month club subscription that is being cancelled. She stated that she no longer loves me, but that she sees me like a friendly neighbor. I do not wish to be her friendly neighbor. I was her husband and lover. It is tough to find my way forward with her. I will always love her and so I am very hurt by what she has done.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> Nope, they just have more of an allegiance to her. I get it puts them in an awkward place but you are their father as much as she is their mother.
> 
> You matter too. They saw you working hard on the home and then her dumping you right after and taking full advantage. WTH? What kind of person does this?
> 
> If they are smart they’ll wonder how much she thinks of them.


I am sure that she does not want the close personal details of our failed relationship shared with them. That would not help anyone. They do not know about what she did with the inheritance. They saw the hurtful criticism of her, but they never saw that I was attempting to have her address needs in our relationship, needs that she was afraid to talk about. They did not see that as time went by we basically were just living in the same building. They did not know that she withdrew from all tasks involving me, that she withheld her intimacy for years, never so much as crossing the center of our marriage bed. She was not the only one suffering.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Thank you. I think that I am able to move forward now. I have grieved longer and harder than I thought a human being could grieve. This has been harder than grieving a death because I am partly at fault for the loss and I am unable to control the fact that she would not engage to work on repairing the marriage. I will undoubtedly grieve this forever, but now I need to move onward. I have three dogs that depend on me for their care and I know that my children are going to need me too as they navigate their adult lives.
> 
> There will be good days ahead.* I have accepted that I failed my spouse and children before God. *I own that failure. I also accept God's forgiveness and the things I cannot change that are beyond my control. I do have some anger toward my wife. In all of this she has treated me as though I am a book of the month club subscription that is being cancelled. She stated that she no longer loves me, but that she sees me like a friendly neighbor. I do not wish to be her friendly neighbor. I was her husband and lover. It is tough to find my way forward with her. I will always love her and so I am very hurt by what she has done.


I disagree. You were both in the same marriage and family. You’re too quick to blame yourself. Why?

Definition of friend = loyal, honest and trustworthy. They all pull this crap. It’s for them not you. It helps alleviate guilt. 

I crapped all over you and took full advantage now we can be friends. Just suck it up and do it for the kids.

No contact is your best friend. Cut her off and block her completely. If you don’t you’ll keep yourself tied up on this. She had no problem dumping you did she?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OnwardNUpward said:


> *I am sure that she does not want the close personal details of our failed relationship shared with them. That would not help anyone.* They do not know about what she did with the inheritance. They saw the hurtful criticism of her, but they never saw that I was attempting to have her address needs in our relationship, needs that she was afraid to talk about. They did not see that as time went by we basically were just living in the same building. They did not know that she withdrew from all tasks involving me, that she withheld her intimacy for years, never so much as crossing the center of our marriage bed. She was not the only one suffering.


Hell yes she wants you to keep everything a secret. It’s the perfect scenario for her.

I’d bet she like most will rewrite the marital history to suit herself. You will probably be made out the bad guy.

Just like she went behind your back to them before telling you. It worked out great for her Didn’t it?

Tell them the truth. She didn’t have any problems telling them what she wanted to did she? Or live her probable lies and accept the consequence.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Luckylucky said:


> No no, not at all, just trying to understand why the sudden decision on her part. It seems more calculated and that her decision may have been made a long time ago. I may be wrong about that too. Sorry you’re in this position.


Check your phone. Often sudden divorce means an affair. I'm actually amazed this wasn't brought up yet on here.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> What I find very surprising is that none of your adult children told you about your wife’s plans. Are you estranged from them, did your criticism of your wife extend to your children also?


Yeah you have to wonder if we have the whole story. Now if it was like a day or two I don't think it's a big deal. If it's months thats F'ed up.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Yeah you have to wonder if we have the whole story. Now if it was like a day or two I don't think it's a big deal. If it's months that F'ed up.


Not discussing this with him first is underhanded and devious.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> Not discussing this with him first is underhanded and devious.


I mean I don't think they need to call him up and be like (Mom says she is divorcing you). That's assuming she wasn't cheating and she is going to tell him in a few days. The fact that she told the kids first shows she has not loyalty to him, that is where her loyalty lies, for their years of marriage though. She is done either way. Time to move on.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I'd use the work you did on the renovations as part of divorce negotiations. You should receive some sort of compensation for that.


In a way, he will be compensated, as the house will appreciate in value from his hard work.

I agree, calcuate that extra work, (and its added equity), put it in writing.

OP wanted to move away from the house to go out West.
As I see it,, the home does not have so much sentimental value from his end.

His wife feels different. She wants to buy him out, push him out.

I get the utter frustration and the deviousness on her part.

Look, neither of you are intimate, have no close connection.
No sex for two years!
Yuck.

What better time, than now, to divorce. 
Really.

...........................................................

The next is going to be seen as cold......

She has made herself unhealthy, overeating, is sedentary, now has given herself Type II Diabetes.

You have tried to stay healthy.

Once the dust settles you will emerge healthy, she will remain unhealthy.
Ugh.

.........................................................

Look at this change as needed and beneficial in the long run.
If you can learn to be kinder and more open, you will find another lady to enjoy the rest of your life with.

Her, your wife?

She is stuck in a rut, hating many things, and not willing to change for the better.
Or, so it seems. 

She may surprise everyone. 
I doubt it.

............................................................

Both of you deserve better lives.

I hope both of you find this, after divorce.

Life is short, get cracking, not cracking to pieces!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I am sure that she does not want the close personal details of our failed relationship shared with them. That would not help anyone. They do not know about what she did with the inheritance. They saw the hurtful criticism of her, but they never saw that I was attempting to have her address needs in our relationship, needs that she was afraid to talk about. They did not see that as time went by we basically were just living in the same building. They did not know that she withdrew from all tasks involving me, that she withheld her intimacy for years, never so much as crossing the center of our marriage bed. She was not the only one suffering.


The inheritance, if not spent, will go to your joint children. 
It all works out.

Maybe those kids saw that inheritance as a loyalty thing.
Older people often control their children by dangling future money in their face.

I am NOT saying this is the case, but money does buys loyalty.
And even it is never brought up it is in the back of everyone's mind.

We see this all the time.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Ladies tend to take some time planning this sort of thing out, then they surprise you with it. Yeah, this is kinda how it goes for a lot of us, myself included. Keep in mind that by the time she hands you divorce papers, odds are she has been planning this moment for months and all of her plans are now in place. You need to act quickly and realize that she has a head start on you when it comes to preparing for the divorce so if you don't move fast, she will get one over on you. 

Not sure if you mentioned it already or not, but you need to lawyer up and do whatever the lawyer says to do. Protect yourself.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Let me start off by saying that prior to being served with divorce papers, my wife and I went to couple therapy. We were not making great progress there and during COVID-19 protocols, we just stopped our therapy. In hindsight we did not have the right therapist. I was aware that our marriage was in a bad way and we were clearly both unhappy with the situation.
> 
> One day she just handed me divorce papers and left the house without returning for several days. I was shocked. We had not discussed divorce. She did not tell me that she was going to be divorcing me. It turns out that she did meet with each of our adult children to tell them a few days prior, but not me.
> 
> ...


Women are well advised in a lot of circumstances to serve the papers and then get out to avoid any ensuing anger and drama and violence. If she knows this is what she needs to do and you've already been aware there's problems, why put yourself through fighting over it over and over again and drag it out. A clean break is usually a lot less messy.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Women are well advised in a lot of circumstances to serve the papers and then get out to avoid any ensuing anger and drama and violence. If she knows this is what she needs to do and you've already been aware there's problems, why put yourself through fighting over it over and over again and drag it out. A clean break is usually a lot less messy.


What you are getting at is the well thought out tactics of springing a divorce. This is not the end of a marriage where two people must now work together to part ways because one of those people is absolutely done. They want to walk away. Once this is explained, they would get on with the task of dissolution as a couple. I have friends who did exactly that.

No, this is more of a look here at what is going down. I have made a plan. I have an attorney. I have arranged this to work so that I get to decide what I want and you will give it to me because I get to decide what is fair and equitable. Outside of a 50/50 split, a settlement is basically whatever you can get either the other person or the court to award to you. She calculated what she had coming to her and she took exactly that.

The strategy of holding inheritance money out of the marriage to keep to it to yourself and use as a divorce war chest, the strategy of having your husband provide thousands of dollars in labor to renovate a home that he cannot hold onto in the divorce because he is without a job to secure a home loan while you have enough money to buy out the home is calculated. You get the home that you have always wanted at only a portion of the cost of the materials (purchased with marital funds that were mostly his contribution) and the increased equity of your half of the home that you can negate by demanding spousal support for the years that you stayed home with the children when they were not yet school age ($30,000). In reality, the $30,000 that she took in spousal support matches all of the expenses she had in the divorce. I am paying both my attorney fees, her attorney fees and any money she put into the remodel when all is said and done. It is exactly the way an attorney would have you plan out your attack in order to get what his/her client feels they should get. Did she do this because she could not trust me to split 50/50 or because she had a need to exact vengeance? I think that the facts speak for themselves.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OP, it sounds to me like YOU weren't all that happy. I understand 37 years is a long time but I have to think all of the criticisms of her mean you weren't happy.

You have different lifestyles. I happen to be on your side health wise but your wife doesn't want that kind of life. I don't know why you'd think that you could criticize or ***** her into doing things your way but understand you can't.

So either you live with her as she is, which it sound like you aren't able to do, or you go your separate ways.

Both of you are unhappy, so I don't know why this would be such a big shock. Frankly her keeping her inheritance should've been your first clue.

Has it occurred to you that you might in fact be happier without her? Maybe she's doing you a favor....too many people just continue to coexist in misery.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

OnwardNUpward said:


> What you are getting at is the well thought out tactics of springing a divorce. This is not the end of a marriage where two people must now work together to part ways because one of those people is absolutely done. They want to walk away. Once this is explained, they would get on with the task of dissolution as a couple. I have friends who did exactly that.
> 
> No, this is more of a look here at what is going down. I have made a plan. I have an attorney. I have arranged this to work so that I get to decide what I want and you will give it to me because I get to decide what is fair and equitable. Outside of a 50/50 split, a settlement is basically whatever you can get either the other person or the court to award to you. She calculated what she had coming to her and she took exactly that.
> 
> The strategy of holding inheritance money out of the marriage to keep to it to yourself and use as a divorce war chest, the strategy of having your husband provide thousands of dollars in labor to renovate a home that he cannot hold onto in the divorce because he is without a job to secure a home loan while you have enough money to buy out the home is calculated. You get the home that you have always wanted at only a portion of the cost of the materials (purchased with marital funds that were mostly his contribution) and the increased equity of your half of the home that you can negate by demanding spousal support for the years that you stayed home with the children when they were not yet school age ($30,000). In reality, the $30,000 that she took in spousal support matches all of the expenses she had in the divorce. I am paying both my attorney fees, her attorney fees and any money she put into the remodel when all is said and done. It is exactly the way an attorney would have you plan out your attack in order to get what his/her client feels they should get. Did she do this because she could not trust me to split 50/50 or because she had a need to exact vengeance? I think that the facts speak for themselves.


I just think she did it to avoid a bunch of drama. Because it's the attorneys in the courts who decide who gets what.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, it sounds to me like YOU weren't all that happy. I understand 37 years is a long time but I have to think all of the criticisms of her mean you weren't happy.
> 
> You have different lifestyles. I happen to be on your side health wise but your wife doesn't want that kind of life. I don't know why you'd think that you could criticize or *** her into doing things your way but understand you can't.
> 
> ...


We married young. The lifestyle thing was not really an issue when we were in our first 15 years of marriage and it took years beyond that to become significant. You are right that we were both unhappy. We could have made it through the differences with some work. Call me old fashioned, but for many of us Christians the marriage vow is permanent. That's the deal. You don't get to say, "Well you are not choosing a healthy lifestyle and I am not going to stay with you as I eventually will become your caregiver, so I'm out." You don't get to say, "Things are not going well between us and I feel emotionally abandoned in this life without intimacy that we are now living because you have withdrawn from me and I can't bear it any longer." The commitment is for life. Unless someone's life is threatened or their spouse has run off with someone else, the vow is for life. It might get messed up, but it can also be fixed. Nearly 70% of relationship conflict is never resolved. Functional couples just find ways to negotiate through it.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I just think she did it to avoid a bunch of drama. Because it's the attorneys in the courts who decide who gets what.


Nope. If I wanted to push this thing all the way to a courtroom, the cost would be enormous. What does that accomplish as the two parties fight back and forth for more money? It gets them more dislike for their spouse and huge legal fees. The reality is that I would have had to ask for personal loans from friends and family to continue to fight that battle. She had strategically held out money from the marriage to fight her legal battle. She got to decide what she got. I could not stop her.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

If you did not go to court how was the settlement reached? Mediation?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OnwardNUpward said:


> What you are getting at is the well thought out tactics of springing a divorce. This is not the end of a marriage where two people must now work together to part ways because one of those people is absolutely done. They want to walk away. Once this is explained, they would get on with the task of dissolution as a couple. I have friends who did exactly that.
> 
> No, this is more of a look here at what is going down. I have made a plan. I have an attorney. I have arranged this to work so that I get to decide what I want and you will give it to me because I get to decide what is fair and equitable. Outside of a 50/50 split, a settlement is basically whatever you can get either the other person or the court to award to you. She calculated what she had coming to her and she took exactly that.
> 
> The strategy of holding inheritance money out of the marriage to keep to it to yourself and use as a divorce war chest, the strategy of having your husband provide thousands of dollars in labor to renovate a home that he cannot hold onto in the divorce because he is without a job to secure a home loan while you have enough money to buy out the home is calculated. You get the home that you have always wanted at only a portion of the cost of the materials (purchased with marital funds that were mostly his contribution) and the increased equity of your half of the home that you can negate by demanding spousal support for the years that you stayed home with the children when they were not yet school age ($30,000). In reality, the $30,000 that she took in spousal support matches all of the expenses she had in the divorce. I am paying both my attorney fees, her attorney fees and any money she put into the remodel when all is said and done. It is exactly the way an attorney would have you plan out your attack in order to get what his/her client feels they should get. Did she do this because she could not trust me to split 50/50 or because she had a need to exact vengeance? I think that the facts speak for themselves.


She was going for the money.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Our state requires an early neutral evaluation. Both parties pay a trained neutral lawyer who provides the perspective of a judge as he/she goes back and forth between the parties to see if a settlement can be reached. Ours broke down and the end and nothing was achieved. I contacted my spouse, because some circumstances changed (unable to return to work from the psych medical leave that I took). My employer offered a different position to me than the one I lost due to COVID-19. Due to the poor fit of the job and the emotional stress, I took a medical leave and paid my salary with sick time. When I could no longer return to work, I could give her the home and whatever she wanted in support. Her equity buy out would fund what she wanted from the divorce that I could not give her when I was trying to save the house. I am still waiting for her finalized offer with all of the edits I requested, but it looks like we are done.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OnwardNUpward said:


> We married young. The lifestyle thing was not really an issue when we were in our first 15 years of marriage and it took years beyond that to become significant. You are right that we were both unhappy. We could have made it through the differences with some work. Call me old fashioned, but for many of us Christians the marriage vow is permanent. That's the deal. You don't get to say, "Well you are not choosing a healthy lifestyle and I am not going to stay with you as I eventually will become your caregiver, so I'm out." You don't get to say, "Things are not going well between us and I feel emotionally abandoned in this life without intimacy that we are now living because you have withdrawn from me and I can't bear it any longer." The commitment is for life. Unless someone's life is threatened or their spouse has run off with someone else, the vow is for life. It might get messed up, but it can also be fixed. Nearly 70% of relationship conflict is never resolved. Functional couples just find ways to negotiate through it.


I get that. I'm just saying that everyone has their limits that they're willing to go to in the name of compromise. After that you have to live with it or go.

So you criticizing her wasn't going to get her past the point she was willing to go, and even if it did she'd potentially resent you for it. In fact, I submit to you that you might have shot yourself in the foot by creating a parent child dynamic. If left alone she may have gotten on board but if not there wasn't anything you could do about it.

Not a big help now I know, but it might help to ask yourself what you were willing to live with. That's why I think you might be happier this way.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

OnwardNUpward said:


> She met with them over the course of three days and asked each of them not to say anything because she was planning to talk to me shortly. Nobody wants to see their mother unhappy or their father for that matter. Three of my children have a very similar interaction style to my spouse. They had seen our dysfunctional interaction. They could relate to their mother's emotional flooding and withdrawal because they each had their own anxiety and similar relationship experiences. The one child who has a different interaction style was still living at home. He made it a point to be gone on the weekend that the divorce was announced. He felt that his silence while living at the house was going to be seen as taking a side. He was visibly uncomfortable. I assured him that my only expectation was that he support, show respect and pray for both of his parents. I gave that message to all of my children. My son who lived at the house through the divorce saw how the demands for me to complete the remodel work tore me apart. I wailed and sobbed the whole time I did that work.
> 
> What I am trying to get at in this discussion is the aspect of the divorce as a planned attack. I guess it makes sense that I someone decides that divorce is ok as an option, then it is a weapon to be wielded against someone who is now seen as an oppressor, one who deserves to be held in contempt.


I would make sure that the costs of doing the work are subtracted from HER part of the house -- get some quotes from contractors around and use the average cost of each of the upgrades, then subtract THAT from her part of the house (or add on to what she needs to pay you for the house).
I would take out a loan if required to get a lawyer -- do NOT accept her lawyer or her initial divorce settlement. 
How about you take out a home equity loan on the house to pay for the lawyer?

It is a sh*tty thing that your kids didn't even have the guts to tell you. I hope they at least feel guilty for this -- and yes the DID pick sides.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I am sure that she does not want the close personal details of our failed relationship shared with them. That would not help anyone. They do not know about what she did with the inheritance. They saw the hurtful criticism of her, but they never saw that I was attempting to have her address needs in our relationship, needs that she was afraid to talk about. They did not see that as time went by we basically were just living in the same building. They did not know that she withdrew from all tasks involving me, that she withheld her intimacy for years, never so much as crossing the center of our marriage bed. She was not the only one suffering.


So she was good at manipulating the kids against you -- simple as that.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I get that. I'm just saying that everyone has their limits that they're willing to go to in the name of compromise. After that you have to live with it or go.
> 
> So you criticizing her wasn't going to get her past the point she was willing to go, and even if it did she'd potentially resent you for it. In fact, I submit to you that you might have shot yourself in the foot by creating a parent child dynamic. If left alone she may have gotten on board but if not there wasn't anything you could do about it.
> 
> Not ay big help now I know, but it might help to ask yourself what you were willing to live with. That's why I think you might be happier this way.


The criticism was fairly broad as frustration grew. I point out the lifestyle stuff because that is where I think the big problem was hiding. We did not talk about it. It is generally not permitted because husbands tend to like a wife that is at least as fit as they are. Men tend to place a higher value on appearance. She knew that. I like the outdoors. She could no longer go hiking with me. I would try to find drive up spots for her to just get out of the car and look around as her ability to walk any distance diminished. There is also a certain point in weight gain where intimacy has to change because the body changes. It is impossible to ignore the elephant in the room. I did not go out of my way to make her feel beautiful as all of this was going on. It was not a parent/child dynamic. She did not talk about what she was feeling emotionally because we both knew that she did not desire to change. She just wanted everything to stay like it was in our twenties. I was expecting her to be someone she did not want to be and we never found our way through it. She withdrew from me.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Another item -- instead of letting her get the benefits of the house the way she wanted it from all the work you did, force a sale of the house and divide the equity in half.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OnwardNUpward said:


> The criticism was fairly broad as frustration grew. I point out the lifestyle stuff because that is where I think the big problem was hiding. We did not talk about it. It is generally not permitted because husbands tend to like a wife that is at least as fit as they are. Men tend to place a higher value on appearance. She knew that. I like the outdoors. She could no longer go hiking with me. I would try to find drive up spots for her to just get out of the car and look around as her ability to walk any distance diminished. There is also a certain point in weight gain where intimacy has to change because the body changes. It is impossible to ignore the elephant in the room. I did not go out of my way to make her feel beautiful as all of this was going on. It was not a parent/child dynamic. She did not talk about what she was feeling emotionally because we both knew that she did not desire to change. She just wanted everything to stay like it was in our twenties. I was expecting her to be someone she did not want to be and we never found our way through it. She withdrew from me.



The whole men place more value on appearance thing isn't entirely true, but that's another discussion.

You made my point. I don't fault you at all for wanting her to embrace a healthier lifestyle, but she wasn't on board with that. She knew you didn't find her appealing. 

As I said, I get it. I'm very fit and I don't find obese men attractive, but criticisms don't get you anything beyond a partner that either doesn't love you or can't stand you.

And let's say she had come to you with her feelings. Based on your posts I have the feeling that not much would've come out of that, because what would your response have been? Likely more about how you don't wamt a fat partner.

But your wife already knew that. So unless you would've been willing to let it go it would have made zero difference. As you said, you wanted her to be what she isn't and I'm sure that was frustrating for you. Especially because a healthy lifestyle would be better for her.

So once again....what's the issue with her filing for divorce? You don't wamt her as she is.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> Another item -- instead of letting her get the benefits of the house the way she wanted it from all the work you did, force a sale of the house and divide the equity in half.


A sale cannot be forced if one party desires to buy it and has the resources to do that. I could have pushed for that, but I did not. The reality is that she knows how much I did in that house. She is afraid to take it on by herself. She will sorely miss my skills, but why leave a home you have come to love that should see you through to retirement without any major work?

I still love my wife. I have anger toward her for this divorce, but I still love her. I took a vow to do that. My perspective in all of this is just that. Because the relationship has been terminated, I can no longer hear her side and negotiate a way forward together. The divorce destroyed that. If there is one thing I have learned, it is that divorce is a destructive force. It may be intended toI be a gateway to happiness and happiness may come at some point, but divorce destroys.


lifeistooshort said:


> The whole men place more value on appearance thing isn't entirely true, but that's another discussion.
> 
> You made my point. I don't fault you at all for wanting her to embrace a healthier lifestyle, but she wasn't on board with that. She knew you didn't find her appealing.
> 
> ...


It is not that I did not want her. Sure, I was frustrated with her choices and I did not handle that very well, but she was my wife. That is for life.

I would have been able to get past the differences that came up if we could have found a way to restore our emotional connection. That was the problem. I did not get the chance to stop criticizing her and she did not engage in therapy to learn about her tendency to become emotionally flooded and shut down. We guys generally want sex. It would not be a big deal that she was obese if she was showing her love for me with intimacy. I just wanted to be loved. It felt so hurtful to lie in bed with someone who was closer than anyone else in the world to me for 37 years and not so much as even receive a touch for two years.

I have heard from female friends who have been through divorce and withdrew intimacy. Each of them said that removing intimacy was protection from feeling hurt. Once they removed intimacy, the marriage was over. Never again would they give themselves in such a vulnerable way to the man who hurt them. We lost our way and waited too long to do something about it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OnwardNUpward said:


> A sale cannot be forced if one party desires to buy it and has the resources to do that. I could have pushed for that, but I did not. The reality is that she knows how much I did in that house. She is afraid to take it on by herself. She will sorely miss my skills, but why leave a home you have come to love that should see you through to retirement without any major work?
> 
> I still love my wife. I have anger toward her for this divorce, but I still love her. I took a vow to do that. My perspective in all of this is just that. Because the relationship has been terminated, I can no longer hear her side and negotiate a way forward together. The divorce destroyed that. If there is one thing I have learned, it is that divorce is a destructive force. It may be intended toI be a gateway to happiness and happiness may come at some point, but divorce destroys.
> 
> ...


It never occurred to you that criticizing her would likely damage your emotional connection? Instead you think you should have been given the chance to stop?

I truly don't understand this mindset.

Presumably one if the vows you took was to love, honor, and cherish your wife. Did you?

You didn't think it mattered how you spoke to her because in your mind marriage is for life? And now you're angry because she had the nerve to file for divorce?

This sounds an awful lot like my kids father. He pretty much admitted that he didn't think it mattered how he spoke to me because he didn't think I was going anywhere.

Is this really how you thought?


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> It never occurred to you that criticizing her would likely damage your emotional connection? Instead you think you should have been given the chance to stop?
> 
> I truly don't understand this mindset.
> 
> ...


I am a human being with failings. I failed to love my wife as God expected me to love her. At the end, I was not thinking that I could treat her any way that I wanted because she was not going anywhere. I was thinking that my marriage was an unhappy one where we did not interact. She still did the grocery shopping and handled the finances, but those were about our only connections anymore. I had resigned myself to a life where she was my responsibility and not much more.

Criticism is not a good way to express a need to your spouse, but the reality is that it was a means to reach out in fear that the emotional connection was in danger. A person can have one of two responses to this poor interaction from their spouse. They can have a what's this response that seeks to get at why there was a criticism by pointing out how it made them feel and then asking what is going on to try to get at the real issue or they can have a what the Hell response that seeks to respond with defensiveness by saying something like, "I don't do that. You always attack me. Well, you can just do it yourself"

Yes, everyone should be given the chance to repair what they are doing wrong, to restore a culture of appreciation, to expect their spouse to lean in to seek repair rather than to withdraw and leave their partner with no interaction, no attempt to fix what went wrong.

Maybe our disconnect is in the idea that failure to meet the expectation of the vows with regards to love is sufficient cause to walk away from a marriage. My understanding of God's expectation is that marriage is for life. It makes sense that a person should not be expected to stay in a marriage if their life is in danger or their spouse has started a new life with a new partner, but the idea that I should leave my marriage because my spouse is emotionally abusing me by withdrawing intimacy or hurting me with criticism or stonewalling me instead of talking things out does not square with my understanding of marriage.

I think we wandered off topic. Even if a person feels like God wants them to be happy, so they should get a divorce, that is not reason to do it by surprise like it is an attack where personal gain is to be had rather than a desire to simply disconnect legally from the person to whom they are currently married.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I think we wandered off topic. Even if a person feels like God wants them to be happy, so they should get a divorce, that is not reason to do it by surprise like it is an attack where personal gain is to be had rather than a desire to simply disconnect legally from the person to whom they are currently married.


I'm not sure you gave her any other choice. Earlier you professed your belief that marriage, based upon your own Christianity (shared by her?) is for life, you have to grin and bear it no matter what, 'till death do you part (although interestingly you left a way out for the wanting-to-exist spouse... all they had to do is cheat). Given your feelings, how could she feel comfortable bringing it up? From her standpoint, rationalized to be sure, you've managed to outmaneuver her for 37 years. She didn't want to risk you talking her out of it.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> I'm not sure you gave her any other choice. Earlier you professed your belief that marriage, based upon your own Christianity (shared by her?) is for life, you have to grin and bear it no matter what, 'till death do you part (although interestingly you left a way out for the wanting-to-exist spouse... all they had to do is cheat). Given your feelings, how could she feel comfortable bringing it up? From her standpoint, rationalized to be sure, you've managed to outmaneuver her for 37 years. She didn't want to risk you talking her out of it.


You are 100% correct that she did not want to be talked out of it. The person who is easily emotionally flooded in relationship conflict often really hated the persuasion part of relationship interaction. They have a lot of emotion behind decisions and not as much reasoning. She left after handing me the divorce papers in order to avoid a discussion. She did not give me any notice when she moved out of the house. When asked about that, she replied that she wanted to make sure that she would go through with it. She did not want to be talked into staying and then not have the happiness that she desired, Her expectation was that there would be an instant return to what we had in the beginning and we both knew that nobody can just flip a switch to return to a functional relationship. She thinks that if I am divorced and on my own for awhile, I could possibly come back into her life once I fix myself and she has a life of autonomy where there is none of the negotiation involved in relationships. My position is that you cannot end a marriage in order to fix it. That is nonsense.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Feeling sorry for yourself and playing the victim isn’t productive at this point.
Get on a good positive path FOR YOURSELF. Find a job ASAP and get moving forward.
Leave the past behind - if you can’t or won’t them see a skilled therapist.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Feeling sorry for yourself and playing the victim isn’t productive at this point.
> Get on a good positive path FOR YOURSELF. Find a job ASAP and get moving forward.
> Leave the past behind - if you can’t or won’t them see a skilled therapist.


I have worked with a therapist and we both thought that I was ready to move on.

The grieving portion will always be there. There is a feeling sorry for one's self that is a part of grief. That is the human condition. It does tend to make others uncomfortable because they see that the business of life must be actively engaged in order for the person to leave the grieving behind. I am pretty much ready to take the first job that comes my way at this point. I have job applications in all over the place.

I will wrestle with my failing in this situation forever. I will mourn the loss of our marriage forever. I am busy getting on with life and that will change my focus.

The idea that there can be a hard break from grief where the person just decides it is time to make a happy life for them is not very realistic. Each person processes grief differently. The therapist can't change that reality. They cannot speed up the processing. It is not a broken part in a machine that you simply fix. It is a state of the human condition that one experiences.

Posting to a forum like this is a means for me to process. Some people will dig into and try to unpack what I am expressing. Some will direct me in the path they think best for me. Some will validate my experience. Some will judge my actions. Some will simply acknowledge me and offer a statement of support. I find it useful because it interrupts the inner dialogue that I am having, forcing me to look at my situation from many angles. Your interaction here is no different. It reminds me that my caregivers don't want me to be stuck in grief.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I will wrestle with my failing in this situation forever. I will mourn the loss of our marriage forever. I am busy getting on with life and that will change my focus.


This is where I am. You have clearly underestimated the damage criticism can do to a spouse and the institution of marriage in general. Instead of supporting your wife in those difficult times, you piled pressure on her and she ended up detaching. I learnt this the hard way. My wife doesn't blame the failure of our marriage entirely on me, but she slowly detached because she could not see a way out, since she refused therapy for her own personal issues. I didn't understand. I guess I wasn't emotionally mature enough and I was selfish. She surprised me 3 years ago withdrawing from our seldom sex life after 27 years of marriage. I was shocked. I had no idea. But she told me I had damaged our relationship by putting her in a difficult position. She didn't want to divorce me, but I guess this is because she has no money. It's difficult to accept and I feel a mix of emotions, primarily disappointment and regret and also, yes... how could she do that to me?


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> This is where I am. You have clearly underestimated the damage criticism can do to a spouse and the institution of marriage in general. Instead of supporting your wife in those difficult times, you piled pressure on her and she ended up detaching. I learnt this the hard way. My wife doesn't blame the failure of our marriage entirely on me, but she slowly detached because she could not see a way out, since she refused therapy for her own personal issues. I didn't understand. I guess I wasn't emotionally mature enough and I was selfish. She surprised me 3 years ago withdrawing from our seldom sex life after 27 years of marriage. I was shocked. I had no idea. But she told me I had damaged our relationship by putting her in a difficult position. She didn't want to divorce me, but I guess this is because she has no money. It's difficult to accept and I feel a mix of emotions, primarily disappointment and regret and also, yes... how could she do that to me?


The criticism was not purely my way of attacking her. It was about needs not being met. Criticism is rigid and unyielding. Criticism does nothing to help those needs get met because it expects the other person to submit and we hate to submit. We want to be engaged, to have the other person express what they are feeling. That does not guarantee that the response will be participation in meeting the need. This is probably the risk that criticism seeks to circumvent. Both parties may sense that the need will not be met and there we are back at the fear of not getting what we need from our spouse.

We do have to learn to live with our failures and that can be a very large task when the failure is something so important as maintaining a marriage.

I hope that you are finding your way forward and growing as you go.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> The criticism was not purely my way of attacking her. It was about needs not being met.


yes, my needs weren't met either, but instead of supporting my wife in finding a solution, I gave up and became resentful. We lost the connection and the intimacy. And then I was surprised she detached. I still loved her, she didn't. All these years she planned to ditch me and I had no clue. She didn't communicate with me properly and then she dropped the bomb at the first opportunity. I'm here supporting her now, but it's too late. I will move on when this Covid madness is over.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Best of luck to you.


In Absentia said:


> yes, my needs weren't met either, but instead of supporting my wife in finding a solution, I gave up and became resentful. We lost the connection and the intimacy. And then I was surprised she detached. I still loved her, she didn't. All these years she planned to ditch me and I had no clue. She didn't communicate with me properly and then she dropped the bomb at the first opportunity. I'm here supporting her now, but it's too late. I will move on when this Covid madness is over.


It sounds like we both have many regrets. I am definitely working on acknowledging that the responsibility is not all mine. I still see my failure as the more significant one, but she has denied having any role in destroying the marriage relationship. She did not engage in trying to repair the relationship. Her own anxiety and unproductive interaction style contributed to the failure.

I am learning that by the time a relationship gets into these dysfunctional interactions on a regular basis, there is big trouble. The deep foundational friendship where dreams are discussed and supported, where there is a culture of appreciation and where partners are responsive to bids for attention in the moment stopped being nourished.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Best of luck to you.
> 
> It sounds like we both have many regrets. I am definitely working on acknowledging that the responsibility is not all mine. I still see my failure as the more significant one, but she has denied having any role in destroying the marriage relationship. She did not engage in trying to repair the relationship. Her own anxiety and unproductive interaction style contributed to the failure.


My wife didn't engage either. Promised to go to therapy, only to drop out of it even before it began. She decided instead to meet my needs (sex) regularly in order to keep the family together. I didn't know that. I thought we'd reached a compromise. At least my wife doesn't put the blame entirely on me. I have many faults and I have made many mistakes, but her final judgement was 50/50 blame. How magnanimous of her...


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Best of luck to you.
> 
> It sounds like we both have many regrets. I am definitely working on acknowledging that the responsibility is not all mine. I still see my failure as the more significant one, but she has denied having any role in destroying the marriage relationship. She did not engage in trying to repair the relationship. Her own anxiety and unproductive interaction style contributed to the failure.
> 
> I am learning that by the time a relationship gets into these dysfunctional interactions on a regular basis, there is big trouble. The deep foundational friendship where dreams are discussed and supported, where there is a culture of appreciation and where partners are responsive to bids for attention in the moment stopped being nourished.





In Absentia said:


> My wife didn't engage either. Promised to go to therapy, only to drop out of it even before it began. She decided instead to meet my needs (sex) regularly in order to keep the family together. I didn't know that. I thought we'd reached a compromise. At least my wife doesn't put the blame entirely on me. I have many faults and I have made many mistakes, but her final judgement was 50/50 blame. How magnanimous of her...


Sounds like she tried to make it work for the sake of the kids. There is a lot to be said for that.

Getting a healthy dynamic and maintaining it is not always easy. Those of us who are critical thinkers must remind ourselves and expect our significant other to remind us that we must be willing to accept opposing ideas without having opposition, to have different ideals and not separate lives when they require a way forward together. It is probably best that we seek others who are very positive and strong in their convictions as a good counterbalance to our perspective.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Sounds like she tried to make it work for the sake of the kids. There is a lot to be said for that.


Well, yes, but I think it was more because she was scared to be left on her on dealing with the kids. But she tried. I guess, I didn't understand her, but with no communication coming from her, I failed her. In hindsight, I should have been more patient and supportive, but I lost my way, also because of my abandonment issues. I have accepted my failures, but getting over them is completely different matter, especially because I still love her and it's difficult to accept it's over.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Well, yes, but I think it was more because she was scared to be left on her on dealing with the kids. But she tried. I guess, I didn't understand her, but with no communication coming from her, I failed her. In hindsight, I should have been more patient and supportive, but I lost my way, also because of my abandonment issues. I have accepted my failures, but getting over them is completely different matter, especially because I still love her and it's difficult to accept it's over.


It sounds difficult for you to get closure.

I am fine with accepting that my situation is not going to be repaired. She did not try and we have different ideas of what we want in our lives. 

She is angry with me about my anger/frustration/paranoia with the way she is handling the divorce. Her display of carefully planned power is less about being free from the sense that she was not given a voice and more about using power to force her will on me. It is an illusion that she was powerless to get her way in the marriage and a distortion of reality. We will finish up this divorce and that will fix the current power dynamic. I am not sure what will follow. I am angry with her about this mistreatment. Providing the loving assistance she will need going forward is not something I am feeling positive about right now.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OnwardNUpward said:


> It sounds difficult for you to get closure.
> 
> I am fine with accepting that my situation is not going to be repaired. She did not try and we have different ideas of what we want in our lives.
> 
> She is angry with me about my anger/frustration/paranoia with the way she is handling the divorce. Her display of carefully planned power is less about being free from the sense that she was not given a voice and more about using power to force her will on me. It is an illusion that she was powerless to get her way in the marriage and a distortion of reality. We will finish up this divorce and that will fix the current power dynamic. I am not sure what will follow. I am angry with her about this mistreatment. *Providing the loving assistance she will need going forward is not something I am feeling positive about right now.*


Why would this be your problem?

Your only good path after divorce in no contact. You really want to keep yourself tied up in this? Why?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OnwardNUpward said:


> If your point is that my children do not love me and see this divorce as good riddance, first of all what a callous unkind thing to think. Secondly, what difference would it make for them to tell me a day before the divorce papers were served? *Would you do that to your mother if she came to you in her unhappiness and shared that she was divorcing your father?*


I don't know OP, I think it was pretty callous of your kids not to give you a heads up.

Many years ago, my parents marriage was at breaking point and mum was actively seeking divorce. At the time my dad was seriously ill in hospital and had no idea what she was doing. I was fully prepared to take action to freeze their assets, to protect dad. I told mum that and she was shocked. Dad was then diagnosed with a terminal illness and they resolved things, mum cared for him beautifully - and genuinely loved him, still does, but she owed him.

I would never keep something like that from either of my parents, unless there was violence involved.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I feel like you are sidestepping my discussion and questions. Are you suggesting that I am hiding something? This was not some abusive marriage if that is what you are wondering. At this point we can say that she was not on board with the move. In all actuality, she would have been right to suggest that we call off the move because of our lack of employment, but she stated that calling off the move would not help the situation when I tried to save the marriage. As for the renovation, she loves it. The house is now everything we could not make it when the kids were with us still.
> 
> She felt marginalized. She felt barely tolerated.
> 
> I also had feelings. I felt pushed away. I felt emotionally abandoned. She had withdrawn herself from the marriage. She had not been intimate for two years. There was no attempt on her part to tell me what she needed and ask for change from me.


This right here. I would have never even thought you were side stepping something until THIS post.

How well do you take constructive criticism?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I appreciate your introspection...not everyone is capable of that.

I really think you guys are incompatible. I know that's a bitter pill because it's not clear wrongdoing like abuse or affairs. And while in theory I agree that one should have a chance to repair the damage there is some damage that can't be repaired and I really think this is an example. 

Let's say you had talked about it. Then what? You may have toned down the criticisms but she was always going to have in her head that she wasn't good enough for you. Even if you told her it wasn't the case as a woman I'm telling you she wouldn't have believed you.

She doesn't want to share your lifestyle and you've made clear you're unhappy about it.

I encourage you to think about this. I detect a lack of empathy from you in that you seem to think that after picking at her for years you could've talked it out and everything would've been repaired. It may have come from your own frustration over the lack of connection but things are often received differently then intended.

That's now how things work where self image is concerned.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> Why would this be your problem?
> 
> Your only good path after divorce in no contact. You really want to keep yourself tied up in this? Why?


This was not a marriage of two years or ten years. We were together for nearly 40 years. I do not hate her. In fact, despite all that has happened, I will always love her. How we interact going forward will be dependent on how she acts toward me going forward. I will mind my boundaries and if treated as though I am being managed, the interaction will end.


frusdil said:


> I don't know OP, I think it was pretty callous of your kids not to give you a heads up.
> 
> Many years ago, my parents marriage was at breaking point and mum was actively seeking divorce. At the time my dad was seriously ill in hospital and had no idea what she was doing. I was fully prepared to take action to freeze their assets, to protect dad. I told mum that and she was shocked. Dad was then diagnosed with a terminal illness and they resolved things, mum cared for him beautifully - and genuinely loved him, still does, but she owed him.
> 
> I would never keep something like that from either of my parents, unless their was violence involved.


No violence involved. She required silence from most of them for less than 48 hours. I am not going to fault my children for being silent. It made no difference to the situation. It was bad form for sure for her to approach the children and to strategize a surprise divorce. The reality is that I think she just is not secure in her conviction. She did not want to back out and that is for good reason. She had chosen to stop loving me. Deep down inside, she knows that this is not an acceptable divorce for Christians and that withdrawing love was an emotional divorce that was wrong. But how could God expect her to stay with someone she no longer loved, someone who made her feel so bad that she removed her love? She planned this thing to be an escape, to remove me from her life with a vengeance, an action of personal strength. She wanted to be sure not to allow herself to have any feelings for what I might be going through, for how this action of hers was not the right solution. She needed a clean break to ensure that she would never sign up to ever be hurt again. That's the way I see it anyway.

I am sorry for the hurt she has experienced that was my fault. The solution is not another wrong action and certainly not a surprise attack divorce where her husband was the last to know.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OnwardNUpward said:


> This was not a marriage of two years or ten years. We were together for nearly 40 years. I do not hate her. In fact, despite all that has happened, I will always love her. How we interact going forward will be dependent on how she acts toward me going forward. I will mind my boundaries and if treated as though I am being managed, the interaction will end.


This is about you not her. Not saying you should hate her but* she divorced you*. 

Hanging around living on hopium will keep you in limbo. You want a life or not?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

The outcome doesn’t change because she made the plans to divorce you.

She did what she had to do to get the divorce underway. Most likely because she knew you would try and talk her out of it.

She felt the need to end the marriage - so likely there were too many hurt feelings that have happened throughout the 40 years you’ve been together.

from what you said here - you don’t seem to own the way you participate easily... you really do t take responsibility for your behavior. You act like she is just supposed to overlook her hurt feelings over and over but stay married. This is a lack of respect on your behalf.

but the end result is she wants to be free of this marriage - so try accepting that reality and move forward. Leave her alone - that’s what she wants, after all.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> This is about you not her. Not saying you should hate her but* she divorced you*.
> 
> Hanging around living on hopium will keep you in limbo. You want a life or not?


Look, I am not hanging around waiting on her for anything. Divorce is the end of our marriage. I have no interest in a relationship with her at this point. You don't go to therapy with your ex and she is not likely to suggest such a thing. The relationship needed therapy. It is too late now. We have four children together. There are bound to be interactions of some sort. I am not just going to act as though she has died.


Beach123 said:


> The outcome doesn’t change because she made the plans to divorce you.
> 
> She did what she had to do to get the divorce underway. Most likely because she knew you would try and talk her out of it.
> 
> ...


The outcome of losing the marriage would not have changed without the surprise attack divorce, but how it played out would be different. She could have chosen to take half of everything and leave the marriage. Instead, because she held money out of the marriage, because she waited until I was unemployed and because she waited until I remodeled the house, she was able to demand what she wanted in the divorce. I could not afford to maintain a lawyer to fight her all the way to court which in a COVID-19 world with no minors involved could take a year or longer. As a result, she is keeping the house. She is also getting the $30,000 of spousal support she is damanding. In the interim, I am jobless, saddled with legal debt, and burdoned with the task of finding housing that will accept my three dogs (she was not interested in helping out with our dogs) and an unemployed tenant. Was what she did really the only way she could do it? 

This feels like perhaps you are projecting some of your own feelings here. I said that I take ownership for what I have done. That means that I own my criticism. That does not mean that I should accept that the logical conclusion is that she should divorce me as her pathway to a happier life. Just as it is likely that hurt feelings have happened throughout the entire marriage, it is also likely that she has responded inappropriately to attempts for her to respond to needs presented to her that often ended up in criticism. That's the part that happened to me, so yes, I have been dealing with the dysfunction of a spouse who withdraws and stonewalls for years. We were both doing things wrong.

A relationship has two sides. It may sound to you like I did not care about her feelings and it is not possible for me to get inside her head to know the full extent of what she felt, but I can say that I heard most of it after the divorce began. Yes, she actually was able to sit down and have a heart to heart discussion where she got it out. The most hurtful episodes were at the very end when she held me in contempt and no longer spoke during arguments. During the stonewalling, I definitely became more hurtful. I was trying desperately to get her to engage. Even her anger at that point would have been better than the silent world of her contempt. I told her how sorry I was for that and asked for her forgiveness. Things were very broken at the end. We were both hurting on another deeply with our actions.

You seem to make it sound as though I just intended to be hurtful from the beginning and I should realize that it is all my fault. It is far more complex than that. We had many wonderful years together. Things changed. The bottom line is that we both own the brokeness of our marriage. A broken marriage can be fixed. Divorce destroys marriage. There is no fixing that. I sought repair. She chose a divorce, one where the outcome would be exactly as she would demand. It was clearly not just about leaving.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

@Beach123 Actually I understand that he is taking responsibility and completely owns his role in this, and that he is also heartbroken, that’s ok. Yes he probably would have tried to talk her out of it, many of us would do the same.

whatever happened in those 40 years, I feel he owns it and regrets it. But there is an element of serious and calculated planning and she has left him really when he had limited options, and under the impression that they would be remodelling to move together to another place.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

He has said he owns it - but then he keeps typing and the words he uses look like he makes excuses for his bad behavior and tries to justify why he was mean to her.

that’s not right. Can you see why I am saying that?
There’s excuses all over the place for your bad behavior. That is not owning it.

and stop with the “projection”accusation... nice try. That’s just another attempt to take the focus off of what you’ve done. Manipulation.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Luckylucky said:


> @Beach123
> But there is an element of serious and calculated planning and she has left him really when he had limited options, and under the impression that they would be remodelling to move together to another place.


Exactly. If he had done this to her he'd be absolutely vilified.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Beach123 said:


> He has said he owns it - but then he keeps typing and the words he uses look like he makes excuses for his bad behavior and tries to justify why he was mean to her.


You are correct. The OP has underestimated the damage inflicted to his wife and now he is surprised she is divorcing him. Maybe the timing could have been better, but I can feel a lot of resentment there. It's happened to me (not quite a divorce, but withdrawing from our sex life) and it took me a while to realise the damage I had done. Not on purpose, obviously. And with little communication it's very difficult to gauge the situation. But from the OP's word, it seems to me that the marriage was over years ago. Like mine.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Yeah, I agree she could've handled things better as far as the home renovations were concerned. I'm not sure how one plans for a job loss so unless that was a planned layoff or retirement she couldn't have seen that coming.

I agree that OP does take responsibility for his actions and he also display an impressive amount of introspection and understanding. But what bothers me is that he seems to feel that she simply "chose" to stop loving him even in the face of increasing nastiness and he gets to dictate how she should feel about it. It's almost mechanical....if she'd only informed him that nastiness was causing her to choose to not love him he could've toned it down and she could've chosen to love him again. That's not how human feelings work

Maybe its how he works, but its not how his wife works and it's not how a lot of people work.

Then when that doesn't work we end up with how God hates divorce. That one seems to get invoked a lot when one treats their spouse poorly but doesn't want a divorce. That's why you not only promise to stay married but also to love, honor, and cherish your spouse. Too often people focus on the staying married part but conveniently forget the rest.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

OP, why are you paying your attorney, AND hers?

wtf


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> @Beach123 Actually I understand that he is taking responsibility and completely owns his role in this, and that he is also heartbroken, that’s ok. Yes he probably would have tried to talk her out of it, many of us would do the same.
> 
> whatever happened in those 40 years, I feel he owns it and regrets it. But there is an element of serious and calculated planning and she has left him really when he had limited options, and under the impression that they would be remodelling to move together to another place.


That's it. It would be one thing to just call it quits and walk away with your half. The way she did it felt like a vindictive betrayal. This was my soulmate, not some stranger.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> OP, why are you paying your attorney, AND hers?
> 
> wtf


No, I am not paying for her attorneyin writing. The way the settlement is structured makes it so all of her attorney fees will be covered within the extra equity ($30,000) she is demanding from the house. She made it clear that she wanted me to pay for the attorney and that was in her initial paperwork. In her mind, the divorce was necessitated by my actions in the marriage and therefore I should pay that cost. She stopped bringing it up. I am not sure why that is except it would make a poor narrative if it got back to the children.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> He has said he owns it - but then he keeps typing and the words he uses look like he makes excuses for his bad behavior and tries to justify why he was mean to her.
> 
> that’s not right. Can you see why I am saying that?
> There’s excuses all over the place for your bad behavior. That is not owning it.
> ...


We will just have to agree to disagree. What you are saying seems to be that owning my part means acknowledging that what she did was a forced response. She could respond no other way than to attack me. Once I understand this then I will know that accepting fault means that whatever happens after my wrong actions is a just response. I have no right to have hurt feelings about it. It makes me wonder why you feel that way. You don't even know me.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah, I agree she could've handled things better as far as the home renovations were concerned. I'm not sure how one plans for a job loss so unless that was a planned layoff or retirement she couldn't have seen that coming.
> 
> I agree that OP does take responsibility for his actions and he also display an impressive amount of introspection and understanding. But what bothers me is that he seems to feel that she simply "chose" to stop loving him even in the face of increasing nastiness and he gets to dictate how she should feel about it. It's almost mechanical....if she'd only informed him that nastiness was causing her to choose to not love him he could've toned it down and she could've chosen to love him again. That's not how human feelings work
> 
> ...


I would like to try to take a broader perspective on this situation for you. I failed to love, honor and cherish my wife. I want to make that abundantly clear. No excuses. I failed. 

I tried to love my wife unconditionally. I really did. God knows I did. I still love her. I will always love her. My failing was not that I withdrew my love, it was that my love fell short. Along with the love, there was criticism for needs not met over and over and over again. Why could I not just let these things go? I do not know. I think I was asking to be loved, for her to care enough to do those things. 

I was very unhappy. My wife was withdrawing as the years went by. She withdrew from nearly all household tasks, when she took a turn at laundry, mine was left in the basket or shoved in the dresser drawer instead of properly put away as we had always done. She withdrew from my birthday and our anniversary. She withdrew her intimacy all together over that last two years. This was her response to my criticism. I share it because it hurt. It hurt so badly that it is hard to explain. It was like a black hole opened up in my soul and all the love of our life together was being sucked down into it.

I really hate the casual perspective that people seem to have toward divorce. As a Christian, while I have failed miserably in some ways, I have not failed to understand the permanence of my marriage commitment. God hates divorce is not a cliche. Marriage is the knitting together of two people for life. One might just as well attempt to cut a sweater in half as to try to undo a marriage. Divorce destroys. Life will almost certainly throw at us things that will make the marriage relationship challenging at times. Perhaps a spouse gets an illness that requires their partner to become their caregiver for 20 years. Maybe a series of losses causes financial ruin. There are so many scenarios where we could conclude that God would not expect us to suffer any more of the unbearable pain. While God certainly provides the grace to forgive us for walking away from our commitment, our exit from what was created to be permanent is a destructive act.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I would like to try to take a broader perspective on this situation for you. I failed to love, honor and cherish my wife. I want to make that abundantly clear. No excuses. I failed.
> 
> I tried to love my wife unconditionally. I really did. God knows I did. I still love her. I will always love her. My failing was not that I withdrew my love, it was that my love fell short. Along with the love, there was criticism for needs not met over and over and over again. Why could I not just let these things go? I do not know. I think I was asking to be loved, for her to care enough to do those things.
> 
> ...


I think you are forgetting that NOT EVERYONE is Christian and believes that "god" hates divorce. Some people think religion and god are a bunch of made up hooey. That's why everyone isn't nodding their heads in agreement with you. Perhaps you would also like a Christian forum.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I think you are forgetting that NOT EVERYONE is Christian and believes that "god" hates divorce. Some people think religion and god are a bunch of made up hooey. That's why everyone isn't nodding their heads in agreement with you. Perhaps you would also like a Christian forum.


Not expecting a Christian forum. If someone brings up the Christian perspective as it was presented by me, then one would expect that the responder would take the time to understand what the Christian believes on the matter. My wife and I are Christians. You do not have to be a Christian. You do not have to hold a Christian perspective on marriage for yourself. I am not dismissing how you choose to view your marriage. Is it not reasonable for me to expect others not to dismiss my religious views as they pertain to myself and my wife in our marriage? I am not participating in a discussion on secular marriage, but my Christian marriage.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Not expecting a Christian forum. If someone brings up the Christian perspective as it was presented by me, then one would expect that the responder would take the time to understand what the Christian believes on the matter. My wife and I are Christians. You do not have to be a Christian. You do not have to hold a Christian perspective on marriage for yourself. I am not dismissing how you choose to view your marriage. Is it not reasonable for me to expect others not to dismiss my religious views as they pertain to myself and my wife in our marriage? I am not participating in a discussion on secular marriage, but my Christian marriage.


Will God forgive you for the dissolution of your marriage?


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

I am not dissolving my marriage. I have made every attempt to stay in the marriage.

The answer is yes. God forgives us. That is my understanding anyway. 

I am not certain that I am released from my covenant though. I must do my best to love her. I do not see myself as having permission to enter into another relationship. That is a difficult perspective, but for now I plan to hold to it. It is difficult to find one's self alone in the world after what feels like a lifetime with a wife.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I am not dissolving my marriage. I have made every attempt to stay in the marriage.
> 
> The answer is yes. God forgives us. That is my understanding anyway.
> 
> I am not certain that I am released from my covenant though. I must do my best to love her. I do not see myself as having permission to enter into another relationship. That is a difficult perspective, but for now I plan to hold to it. It is difficult to find one's self alone in the world after what feels like a lifetime with a wife.


Oh I completely understand. My marriage for all intents and purposes is over after 30 years. You believe God would want you alone for the rest of your life?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I am not dissolving my marriage. I have made every attempt to stay in the marriage.
> 
> The answer is yes. God forgives us. That is my understanding anyway.
> 
> I am not certain that I am released from my covenant though. I must do my best to love her. I do not see myself as having permission to enter into another relationship. That is a difficult perspective, but for now I plan to hold to it. It is difficult to find one's self alone in the world after what feels like a lifetime with a wife.


Your wife does not share your view.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Your wife does not share your view.


She has no plans to seek a new partner. Her perspective was that God would not want her to go on suffering. I agree that God would not want either of us to be suffering like we were. The solution is repair and not divorce. We disagree on that. The reason may be that we know one another well and we know what has pushed us apart. Both of us were in for difficult changes if we were to fix things. I realize that. She had some denial in that area, stating that it was all my fault. In the sense that I realized that we needed to make changes to stay healthy as we aged and she did not we were not on the same page.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Oh I completely understand. My marriage for all intents and purposes is over after 30 years. You believe God would want you alone for the rest of your life?


It is not that I believe that God would want me to be alone, but that the covenant is the covenant. I would not be alone if I did not screw things up. God will forgive me if I do not hold to the commitment, but I am hoping to stay true to it. It's easy to live a comfortable theology that meets my personal needs. I intended to do better in my marriage. I have the opportunity to do better in my efforts to grow in God's spirt in the wake of my failure.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

OnwardNUpward said:


> It is not that I believe that God would want me to be alone, but that the covenant is the covenant. I would not be alone if I did not screw things up. God will forgive me if I do not hold to the commitment, but I am hoping to stay true to it. It's easy to live a comfortable theology that meets my personal needs. I intended to do better in my marriage. I have the opportunity to do better in my efforts to grow in God's spirt in the wake of my failure.


I suppose if it is easy to live a comfortable theology that meets your personal needs than there really is not an issue. Agonizing over the rules that have been placed for you isn’t worth it.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

On its face this may seem to be true, but it may not be the case. God is not about rules, but the nature of his being. I have not thoroughly considered this yet. I have been immersed in grief until very recently. It may very well be that if I must still do what I can do to honor my covenant, there is no place for another person. How could they enter in where they could not receive a complete commitment to them? If God's intent is for two people to be together for life and we walk away from that arrangement, there is spiritual fallout. The way I see it, denying the spiritual truth of the situation may provide some initial peace of mind, but it does not change reality.

I am far too new to this situation to have a good grasp on it. I can tell you that I am not foolish enough to think that seeking a woman to fill the void in my life right now would be a good idea. That much is clear. Often what seems comfortable and right to meet our needs is definitely not what is best. Seeking truth and walking in it requires some patience and understanding.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I would like to try to take a broader perspective on this situation for you. I failed to love, honor and cherish my wife. I want to make that abundantly clear. No excuses. I failed.
> 
> I tried to love my wife unconditionally. I really did. God knows I did. I still love her. I will always love her. My failing was not that I withdrew my love, it was that my love fell short. Along with the love, there was criticism for needs not met over and over and over again. Why could I not just let these things go? I do not know. I think I was asking to be loved, for her to care enough to do those things.
> 
> ...



I'm sure it was very painful. The stuff you describe is painful to read, and it reeks of a big fat **** you from a wife who for whatever reason wasn't able to communicate with you.

Whether it was because you steamroll her, which I suspect was at least part of it based on your posts, or she was just conflict avoidant (I sympathize if that's what you dealt with because my ex was this way) your wife was communicating in her own nasty way.

You responded with more nastiness, and the cycle continued. 

So yes, in that sense you both contributed. But the damage done was not equal because her self worth was chipped away and she does't see you aa a safe partner. That is typically impossible to come back from. As a woman I understand this in ways you clearly don't because your emotional needs are different.

For you, I sense that if she'd started contributing and thrown some intimacy your way you'd have recovered just fine. Men often process and receive things differently.

None of this matters if you're going to be divorced.....I'm bringing these things up to try to help with your anger. There is a certain sense of entitlement here and you don't seem to comprehend that your wife isn't you and doesn't respond like you. For her this may not be repairable, and after 37 years I would think you'd know your wife well enough to know this.

Maybe you need more time to process this and that's ok. But understand that even if you talked her out if a divorce she doesn't love you and you're likely not going to get what you want. So what then? Just keep picking at her as your frustration and anger grows?

And at the end of the day she still won't want the lifestyle you want so what would you end up with?

Sounds like a terrible way to live.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm sure it was very painful. The stuff you describe is painful to read, and it reeks of a big fat **** you from a wife who for whatever reason wasn't able to communicate with you.
> 
> Whether it was because you steamroll her, which I suspect was at least part of it based on your posts, or she was just conflict avoidant (I sympathize if that's what you dealt with because my ex was this way) your wife was communicating in her own nasty way.
> 
> ...


I hear you.

I shared in another post that the divorced women from whom I sought counsel all shared with me that when a woman removes intimacy because she feels hurt beyond recovery, that there is no way she will ever allow that level of vulnerability ever again with that person. She's out for good. I can accept this, even if I do not totally understand it. 

It looks like I have some learning to do about this subject. Ultimately, the goal is to never end up at that point. Maintaining a positive relationship with lots of appreciation and a deep friendship coversa multitude of slip ups. We had that for years. I am deeply saddened by the loss.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I hear you.
> 
> I shared in another post that the divorced women from whom I sought counsel all shared with me that when a woman removes intimacy because she feels hurt beyond recovery, that there is no way she will ever allow that level of vulnerability ever again with that person. She's out for good. I can accept this, even if I do not totally understand it.
> 
> It looks like I have some learning to do about this subject. Ultimately, the goal is to never end up at that point. Maintaining a positive relationship with lots of appreciation and a deep friendship coversa multitude of slip ups. We had that for years. I am deeply saddened by the loss.


And for that I am truly sorry.

Since you are a man of faith try to remember that sometimes in our arrogance (and we all do it) we assume we actually know what God wants and it is often what we want. We pray for Him to do x, y, or z for us.

But us Jews accept that we don't always know what God has planned for us so we do the best we can and understand that many things are out of our control.

That's where the joke about Jews answers questions with more questions cones from.

Trust that God will work this out, even if its not the way you think He will or want Him to.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

OnwardNUpward said:


> She has no plans to seek a new partner. Her perspective was that God would not want her to go on suffering. I agree that God would not want either of us to be suffering like we were. The solution is repair and not divorce. We disagree on that. The reason may be that we know one another well and we know what has pushed us apart. Both of us were in for difficult changes if we were to fix things. I realize that. She had some denial in that area, stating that it was all my fault. In the sense that I realized that we needed to make changes to stay healthy as we aged and she did not we were not on the same page.


Sadly, but in the long run it's better for you, you have to accept, today, that she's quit. Period. 

Odds are you'll never know the real, true reason, her putting it all on you is part of her strategy. 

It's telling on her part that she's planned this for a while that she wrongfully has been playing g on your emotions without concern about your feelings. 

Don't pay her attorney fees. Don't pay her anything else, cut her off from all funds you can. Or she'll beat you to it and continue to screw you.

It's hard, admit and embrace that, but accept you can't change it. Grieve yes, but absolutely protect yourself. 

Start forcing her to embrace her non marital support soonest.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> And for that I am truly sorry.
> 
> Since you are a man of faith try to remember that sometimes in our arrogance (and we all do it) we assume we actually know what God wants and it is often what we want. We pray for Him to do x, y, or z for us.
> 
> ...


I think that our faith experience is similar in this regard. 

We pray for our will and that is not remotely within the full knowledge of God and how he responds. 

I have let go of my spouse in the sense that we will ever be together again and I will eventually let go of my hurt. My grief has subsided to the point where I am not at death's door daily. I am thankful for that.

The journey to seek God goes on. It is a journey of questions much more so that easy answers.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Sadly, but in the long run it's better for you, you have to accept, today, that she's quit. Period.
> 
> Odds are you'll never know the real, true reason, her putting it all on you is part of her strategy.
> 
> ...


There is no way out of the whole settlement situation. I maxed out my credit with my attorney. I have no employment. Finding more money and continuing the fight is likely to end in a settlement for a smaller amount while attorney fees skyrocket to negate any financial benefit. This was a long marriage and she did spend some time home with the kids. A judge may give her something for that. I am not trying to cheat her. I want closure. The pain has been unbearable. I need it to stop.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OnwardNUpward said:


> I think that our faith experience is similar in this regard.
> 
> We pray for our will and that is not remotely within the full knowledge of God and how he responds.
> 
> ...


My father spoke fluent Yiddish and he had a saying that translates to "man plans and God laughs".


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

OnwardNUpward said:


> There is no way out of the whole settlement situation. I maxed out my credit with my attorney. I have no employment. Finding more money and continuing the fight is likely to end in a settlement for a smaller amount while attorney fees skyrocket to negate any financial benefit. This was a long marriage and she did spend some time home with the kids. A judge may give her something for that. I am not trying to cheat her. I want closure. The pain has been unbearable. I need it to stop.


Hang in there. You can do it.
Easier said than done but a must do. 

Courage my friend.

Just remember she is no longer your ally or friend, she doesn't have your welfare as her priority.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Then when that doesn't work we end up with how God hates divorce. That one seems to get invoked a lot when one treats their spouse poorly but doesn't want a divorce. That's why you not only promise to stay married but also to love, honor, and cherish your spouse. * Too often people focus on the staying married part but conveniently forget the rest.*


Word.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Not expecting a Christian forum. If someone brings up the Christian perspective as it was presented by me, then one would expect that the responder would take the time to understand what the Christian believes on the matter. My wife and I are Christians. You do not have to be a Christian. You do not have to hold a Christian perspective on marriage for yourself. I am not dismissing how you choose to view your marriage. Is it not reasonable for me to expect others not to dismiss my religious views as they pertain to myself and my wife in our marriage? I am not participating in a discussion on secular marriage, but my Christian marriage.


As a fellow Christian, I would like to propose that the WS, BS, offending spouse, whatever he/she is, may often use their "Christianity" as proof, in some strange way, that their marriage is OK. That they're not screwing up. A false sense of security that allows them to completely overlook their own issues. Allows them to truly believe they are in a happy marriage, without taking into consideration the views of their partner. That the fact that they have been married for 10, 17, 25, 40 years... that that alone is proof of a good or happy marriage. 

It is so weird. But I think I'm seeing some of this in your own writings.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> As a fellow Christian, I would like to propose that the WS, BS, offending spouse, whatever he/she is, may often use their "Christianity" as proof, in some strange way, that their marriage is OK. That they're not screwing up. A false sense of security that allows them to completely overlook their own issues. Allows them to truly believe they are in a happy marriage, without taking into consideration the views of their partner. That the fact that they have been married for 10, 17, 25, 40 years... that that alone is proof of a good or happy marriage.
> 
> It is so weird. But I think I'm seeing some of this in your own writings.


Woah, you are assuming WAY too much. My discussion of my Christianity has everything to do with the expectation of the commitment and nothing to do with how the marriage was going. If you have read all of my posts it would be obvious that from my misery and that of my spouse that neither had some strange delusion that as Christians we were exempt from problems or that we were blind to them. Nope, I am fully aware of my failing to love my wife as God expected me to love her, but before you think that this somehow nullifies my Christianity I would like to remind you that Christianity is not about being perfect. We try and we often fail. Failing is part of the human condition. It's what Christ's sacrifice is all about.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Woah, you are assuming WAY too much. My discussion of my Christianity has everything to do with the expectation of the commitment and nothing to do with how the marriage was going. If you have read all of my posts it would be obvious that from my misery and that of my spouse that neither had some strange delusion that as Christians we were exempt from problems or that we were blind to them. Nope, I am fully aware of my failing to love my wife as God expected me to love her, but before you think that this somehow nullifies my Christianity I would like to remind you that Christianity is not about being perfect. We try and we often fail. Failing is part of the human condition. It's what Christ's sacrifice is all about.


I think you're missing my point. This isn't at all about dismissing problems. It's about thinking that momentum can carry you through, and since (some) Christians have that "I'm in it for life, thick or thin" thing going on, which seems to be part of your messaging... it allows one to gloss over issues and just keep going.

Look at it another way. If your belief is that marriage is a life-long thing, then maybe you don't work on it as you should. You feel too much freedom from earning the respect and admiration of your partner, and vice versa. Because you shouldn't have to, right? We've seen many threads here extolling how a more-rigid religious doctrine is actually "freeing" because there are so many things you don't have sweat the stuff others do.

Basically, you get lazy. You pay attention to too many selfish things and not enough to the relationship. And that is not truly Christian. Not at all. But it can be an unintended byproduct of doctrinal belief.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> I think you're missing my point. This isn't at all about dismissing problems. It's about thinking that momentum can carry you through, and since (some) Christians have that "I'm in it for life, thick or thin" thing going on, which seems to be part of your messaging... it allows one to gloss over issues and just keep going.


It sounds like we may not have the same understanding of Christian marriage. As far as I am concerned marriage is an in it for life thick and thin proposition. It is not about the commitment getting people through. It's about the commitment driving people to make their marriage work as God intended once again. That does not mean that things can't go off the rails so badly that two people are not able to restore their marriage no matter how hard they try. That does not excuse them from trying and it does not give them permission to see failure as normal. Failing is tragic.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Some things you need to consider:
Your wife clearly doesn’t think like you. She may say she isn’t interested in looking for another man, until she does. It’s a divorce. Stop analyzing who’s fault it is and why she did it. It’s over. Done. Accept that she is gone and treat her as if she were dead as you said. You are saying you still feel that you must do this or that. If you don’t want to remarry, don’t. Just don’t believe she thinks the same way. If either of you meet the right person, you’ll change your mind— as you should. Don’t doom yourself to refusing the gift of another person to love. That’s crazy. 
Just my thoughts. Hate it for you both. 37 years is a long time. Still life to live for you both. Don’t hang on to the hurt on this. It’s too easy to do. Let it go. 
I never heard you say how you’ll make a living. I hope things work out for you.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Some things you need to consider:
> Your wife clearly doesn’t think like you. She may say she isn’t interested in looking for another man, until she does. It’s a divorce. Stop analyzing who’s fault it is and why she did it. It’s over. Done. Accept that she is gone and treat her as if she were dead as you said. You are saying you still feel that you must do this or that. If you don’t want to remarry, don’t. Just don’t believe she thinks the same way. If either of you meet the right person, you’ll change your mind— as you should. Don’t doom yourself to refusing the gift of another person to love. That’s crazy.
> Just my thoughts. Hate it for you both. 37 years is a long time. Still life to live for you both. Don’t hang on to the hurt on this. It’s too easy to do. Let it go.
> I never heard you say how you’ll make a living. I hope things work out for you.


I am processing this whole mess. Yes, it hurt and for a long time all I could do was hurt all day and all night for months on end. 

I have three dogs to care for and bills to pay, so reality is pushing me forward. By the kindness of others I was able to find a rental where I could keep the dogs,

I am in an awkward spot from a career perspective. I lost a job that was a unicorn position in a highly specialized corner of my field due to COVID-19. That means that the remaining years until retirement may be spent working a dramatically lower wage. That's fine as long as I can pay the bills and feed the dogs. 

Life goes on. Thanks for the encouragement.


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## #TrvlYogaRN (Feb 24, 2021)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Let me start off by saying that prior to being served with divorce papers, my wife and I went to couple therapy. We were not making great progress there and during COVID-19 protocols, we just stopped our therapy. In hindsight we did not have the right therapist. I was aware that our marriage was in a bad way and we were clearly both unhappy with the situation.
> 
> One day she just handed me divorce papers and left the house without returning for several days. I was shocked. We had not discussed divorce. She did not tell me that she was going to be divorcing me. It turns out that she did meet with each of our adult children to tell them a few days prior, but not me.
> 
> ...


I’m sorry you’re going through this, especially after 37 years. It seems like a long time to be with somebody, and then you feel like you’re taking advantage of. As a female I can tell you it doesn’t look calculated, so it may feel that way to you. Sounds like she was just done. In any event it’s painful as the work might’ve been it will benefit you in the end if all roads lead to divorce. At least she’s buying you out on a remodeled home instead of one in disrepair.
Regardless this is causing you some pain and you have children involved which is sad on both parts, that she went to them with her plan, and that they never mentioned it to you while you were busting your hump. 
by any chance if you noticed the statistics of divorce in older marriages? It looks like over the years they’ve gone up tenfold. I only make mention of this because it’s a consideration of my own and I’m 55 years old. It seems to be that in this age bracket the baby boomers have begun to take on divorce and exponential rates.
I also understand your plight regarding eating healthier and exercising. I recently started and I AyurVedic school and changed my diet completely, but my husband won’t have any part of it. I guess after that many years people just grow apart. It was kind of ****ty for her to drop the papers in your lap like that. It’s probably something she was telling with all along but not necessarily premeditated. She has made her choice. Go on and live your life joyfully. It can be done!


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Thanks. I am processing and moving on.

One of the harder parts is that if feels like she is changing to a different plan with a book of the month club, stating that she now sees me as she would a friendly neighbor, like she is out of the marriage, but will continue with the aspects of the relationship she likes (me solving problems, fixing things, helping her take care of practical needs that she does not wish to tackle or can't). You don't get to change the relationship status like the other person is going to accept the destruction of 37 years together as though it should be just fine with them. 

I often hear women comment about how men do not understand how hurtful it is not to be supportive of their wives and acknowledge them without expressing displeasure because it is so harmful to self-esteem. I do not often hear mention of how harmful it is to men when women remove intimacy from the relationship as though it is no big deal.

I digress. Time will allow healing. I will find a way to present to my children that their mother and I will have some boundaries going forward that may feel uncomfortable to them.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> My father spoke fluent Yiddish and he had a saying that translates to "man plans and God laughs".


I appreciate the humor in this!

.......................................................................................

More so, man does his planning and God spins them, His way.
We are part of any equation that affects us.

Laughing is human, that Spirit only knows interacting consequences, those laid at your feet, or not.

You have _some _influence over your own actions, and your families actions, but, _not so much_, the action of others who are outside your circle.
We are said to be one of many.

God is said to be ONE, not many.
Yet, God has many feelers and many dimensions.

Matter is his Realm, and matter is like the wind and the weather.
Complex, and yet Unpredictable to the wind-driven.

Those little souls in the middle of a hail storm cannot know its boundaries and its overall, that ending direction.

All of us are absorbed, permeated into this life.
We think individually, yet do en-mass. 
We are a wave, a human one.

While in motion, we are often dashed against the rocks, squarely.
Many times felt unfairly, according to our thoughts and plans.
Our plans are mixed in with all those other plans and schemes.

The _resultant force_ is always that compromise with God.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Women do know that intimacy is important to men, and it's important to a lot of women too.

But one of the issues many men face is that there tends to be a lag between disconnect and withdrawal of intimacy. Because men tend to feel love through intimacy many develop blinders so when its withdrawn all they think about is the intimacy and not the possibility that there are larger issues in play.

But women have sex when they feel loved.
By the time a woman pulls intimacy she's often been withdrawing for a long time but the guy either had no idea or figured it couldn't be that bad because he was still getting sex.

This disconnect can make it very difficult for women to communicate with their men because he may not hear her until he stops getting intimacy, and even then that remains his focus.

We see it on here all the time. Guy comes on complaining of no sex but as you get more details you realize his marriage is falling apart on many levels, but all he knows is that he's not having sex.

I wonder of that was a factor here? This is a tough one because of different communication styles.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Women do know that intimacy is important to men, and it's important to a lot of women too.
> 
> But one of the issues many men face is that there tends to be a lag between disconnect and withdrawal of intimacy. Because men tend to feel love through intimacy many develop blinders so when its withdrawn all they think about is the intimacy and not the possibility that there are larger issues in play.
> 
> ...


No, I get that the marriage was falling apart. The communication piece was lacking her part. She tends to shut down and not communicate.

There was an elephant in the room in all of this. I think that she just did not want to address it. There is this aspect of I am who I am and just love me as I am thing. We got older. If you continue to eat like you are 20 years old and you become more and more sedentary, you will become obese. That is what happened with her. It is not ok to say out loud, "I do not like how fat you are getting." However it was ok for me to express my concerns that we should eat healthier and exercise. I did that. She became diabetic and began to walk so slowly that it was difficullt for me to walk slow enough to go anywhere with her. She clearly resented the fact that I was no longer on the same life path as she was. I continued to buy flowers every month. I continued to create scavenger hunts with clues that she loved for her birthday and Valentine's Day. She was not hearing how attractive I found her to be and how beautiful she was. I know she wanted to hear that, but I was not happy with her life choices. I grew up with an obese father who spent his last 20 years pretty much stuck in a chair because of weight and health issues. I did not want to affirm that in my life partner.

The criticism she heard from me was not about her weight or eating habits. She read it in my silence, in my changed eating habits and in my continued activity level. I am not discounting the feminine need for expression of acceptance. I do not get how the failure to talk it out instead withdrawing intimacy is just a fine. It somehow represents the failure on the part of the man alone. 

I keep coming back to the point that it is very difficult to fix a broken relationship. It is much better to guard the health of the relationship by constantly making sure the healthy things are being done that nurture that deep friendship. Perhaps what sunk us was that I wanted change from her as life changed and she wanted to be fully affirmed as she was.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OnwardNUpward said:


> No, I get that the marriage was falling apart. The communication piece was lacking her part. She tends to shut down and not communicate.
> 
> There was an elephant in the room in all of this. I think that she just did not want to address it. There is this aspect of I am who I am and just love me as I am thing. We got older. If you continue to eat like you are 20 years old and you become more and more sedentary, you will become obese. That is what happened with her. It is not ok to say out loud, "I do not like how fat you are getting." However it was ok for me to express my concerns that we should eat healthier and exercise. I did that. She became diabetic and began to walk so slowly that it was difficullt for me to walk slow enough to go anywhere with her. She clearly resented the fact that I was no longer on the same life path as she was. I continued to buy flowers every month. I continued to create scavenger hunts with clues that she loved for her birthday and Valentine's Day. She was not hearing how attractive I found her to be and how beautiful she was. I know she wanted to hear that, but I was not happy with her life choices. I grew up with an obese father who spent his last 20 years pretty much stuck in a chair because of weight and health issues. I did not want to affirm that in my life partner.
> 
> ...


Weight is a tough one to discuss especially for women. It strikes me that men are more open to it.

My bf and his brothers will tell each other they're getting fat and nobody seems to bat an eye. I've seen other men do it too as well as had men tell me its no big deal to be told they're getting fat because they already know.

Women are more sensitive. I have a group of running gf's and we don't understand this sensitivity....we'll tell each other that we're looking a bit pudgy and we'll respond with yeah....damn chocolate.

You really were in a no win situation here. The irony is that one could argue its you who moved the goal posts by shifting your habits but you did the right thing. It rocks the balance of the marriage though....that's why a lot of marriages fail after one loses a lot of weight. The dynamic of the marriage changes and someone is usually unhappy about that.

Honestly while it sounds like you could've toned down the criticisms im not sure there was much you could do that would've resulted in both of you being happy. You just became incompatible. I understand....as an endurance athlete I don't want a fatty. I'm planning to run 15-18 after work....why would I want someone who stuffs their face with crap?

Probably doesn't make you feel better, but try to remember it when you feel down.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Weight is a tough one to discuss especially for women. It strikes me that men are more open to it.
> 
> My bf and his brothers will tell each other they're getting fat and nobody seems to bat an eye. I've seen other men do it too as well as had men tell me its no big deal to be told they're getting fat because they already know.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I am by no means eating 100% healthy, but I do watch what I eat and exercise daily.
As my fifties draw to a close, I am aware that although I may no longer be able to run distance as you do, I can reduce the impact of arthritis and prevent other ailments by staying fit.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Livvie said:


> I'd use the work you did on the renovations as part of divorce negotiations. You should receive some sort of compensation for that.


Yes. He should get compensated for what was done but do nothing further without assurances in writing that he will be compensated further, unless advised otherwise by his attorney.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

I have discussed this with others here. We have a tentative agreement that I can live with. I will not be compensated for my labor. Because she held out her inheritance, she has plenty of money to push me around with legal tactics. Once we got an agreement, I let my attorney go. I just do not have the resources to continue with representation. 

I received her finalized pleadings today. Changes that I requested are missing. That concerns me. Now I will need to go back and make everything air tight. Every last detail will need to be written into the agreement. Then if it comes back again with things missing, I will know that it is intentional. 

I hate this legal stuff, but it has to be dealt with in order to draw this to a close. If she keeps this up, I will be forced to move back into the house with her. Without any resources of my own, she will just have to live with me until she decides to be done with this nonsense. I am hoping that she will decide to stop dragging this out.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

OnwardNUpward said:


> She met with them over the course of three days and asked each of them not to say anything because she was planning to talk to me shortly. Nobody wants to see their mother unhappy or their father for that matter. Three of my children have a very similar interaction style to my spouse. They had seen our dysfunctional interaction. They could relate to their mother's emotional flooding and withdrawal because they each had their own anxiety and similar relationship experiences. The one child who has a different interaction style was still living at home. He made it a point to be gone on the weekend that the divorce was announced. He felt that his silence while living at the house was going to be seen as taking a side. He was visibly uncomfortable. I assured him that my only expectation was that he support, show respect and pray for both of his parents. I gave that message to all of my children. My son who lived at the house through the divorce saw how the demands for me to complete the remodel work tore me apart. I wailed and sobbed the whole time I did that work.
> 
> What I am trying to get at in this discussion is the aspect of the divorce as a planned attack. I guess it makes sense that I someone decides that divorce is ok as an option, then it is a weapon to be wielded against someone who is now seen as an oppressor, one who deserves to be held in contempt.


I feel so bad for you feeling you had to finish the remodel work. You must have felt like a hostage.

I have a similar situation where my ex is trying to force me to do something that will make him money. The fact that slavery is illegal doesn't always seem to matter in the family law courts.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

FarmTownGirl said:


> I feel so bad for you feeling you had to finish the remodel work. You must have felt like a hostage.
> 
> I have a similar situation where my ex is trying to force me to do something that will make him money. The fact that slavery is illegal doesn't always seem to matter in the family law courts.


Thank you for your care. 

Divorce can be a very strange experience. I am sorry that your ex is behaving that way.

When someone decides to initiate a divorce, it seems that in most cases there is this disconnect that happens. They feel that the other person forced them to have a divorce and by that reasoning they no longer owe their life partner any care. Instead, they turn their attention toward themself and decide that any harm they cause to their spouse is of no concern to them. In other words, their goal is not to simply end their legal connection to their spouse, but to care solely for their own benefit, using resources at their disposal to impose their will. In so doing, an adversarily environment is created. It is sad.


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