# Sex life mysteries



## Icantfigureherout

My wife has always been a little bit prude and says she has a low sex drive. I’ve. Never been pushy with sex. We have sex about once every week or two and when we do have sex it’s almost always good and she orgasms. I’ve been supportive of her loosening up and getting a toy. Her old toy broke and after a while she just got a new one. It now feels like she’s using her new toy kinda frequently but alone. I was hoping it could spice up our sex life but can’t help being very frustrated that while I’m dying to get laid she’s using her toy when home alone but claiming to have a low sex drive. Super frustrated and starting to get a little insecure. Thoughts?


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## Mr.Married

You have to understand first that there is nothing wrong with her enjoying her new toy and you need to make every single effort to provide her with approval and support.
If you make any commit what so ever or give her the feeling you don't approve you will ruin a good thing.

Next time the two of you are intimate take the toy and use it together. 

You masturbate but that doesn't mean your wife is insecure bout your hand.

Whatever you do....do not....do not...do not.....show any insecurities to her over this. Just don't do it.

"almost always good and she orgasms." While yes this is good you should understand that it isn't the "end all, be all" for a woman. Don't use that as a litmus test
for her being satisfied. You need to engage her mentally for the best experience. 

Do you still "date" your wife .....romance her?


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## MattMatt

How long have you been married?


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## Icantfigureherout

I guess my biggest worry is that if she 
Might use the toy more than wanting to have sex with me. That’s just so frustrating because I have a high sex drive. I was all
About her getting it initially but thought maybe we’d ise it together once in a while. That doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen


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## Icantfigureherout

Married 8 together 16 years


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## Tasorundo

How often is she using it?

How do you know?

Has she be reluctant to have sex with your more frequently than the current rate?

Who initiates?


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## jlg07

I don't think he's insecure about the toy - I think he is upset that she'd rather play with the toy by HERSELF instead of actually having sex more frequently with him (which he wants).


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

This will be good for you. Participate when desired, let her experiment and enjoy as she desires whenever. 

Don't bring it up, don't sweat it.

Buy her some more toys. 

No worries.


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## Icantfigureherout

Exactly


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## Icantfigureherout

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> This will be good for you. Participate when desired, let her experiment and enjoy as she desires whenever.
> 
> Don't bring it up, don't sweat it.
> 
> Buy her some more toys.
> 
> No worries.


The issue is that she only wants to use it alone. I’m fine with that although I’d love to be involved. I just get worried because I wish she’d want to have sex with me more frequently and it’s tough if she chooses her toy when I’m willing and able


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## jlg07

How about just talking to your wife about it? DO NOT be accusatory or agressive about it. Be calm and non-emotional.

Just "Honey, I know that you've been using your toy quite a bit and I'm glad you like it. I was wondering though why you don't ask ME to help you out if you are horny? "
You need to get to the root of why she is sex-avoidant with you -- there may be any number of reasons but you should talk DIRECTLY with her about this.


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## EllisRedding

My approach is very simple. My W can use a toy solo as long as it doesn't in any way impact us. So let's say she uses a toy in the morning. Later that night, because she already used up her sexual energy, she either doesn't have much interest in having sex, rejects you, or if you do have sex she just isn't in to it. To me, this becomes a problem as in effect you are getting replaced by a toy, vs the toy just complimenting your sex life. I do wonder as well, if someone does have a lower sex drive, they may only have so much sexual energy to give out, so the odds they use it up solo may very well be higher then someone with a high drive.

Just have an open conversation with your W. Maybe she is just not comfortable yet using the toy with you, so give her a little room to experiment


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## Vinnydee

Masturbation and sex with a partner are two different experiences. I think most people masturbate more two than they have sex with partners most times. Just last month I was telling my wife she was greedy with her orgasms because she had 3 with me, but I only had one. She looked at me and said that it the 3 were the only ones I was aware of. We both know we masturbate and it is not big deal. I even know that my wife prefers an orgasm with her vibrator more than with a partner. It does not bother me.

The real problem is that you two have different libidos, a not uncommon problem. We are close to 70 and we have sex once a week. Not too long ago we were having sex almost daily together. You need to communicate honestly and work it out. I found out that my wife is reactive when it comes to sex. She rarely feels horny but once we start foreplay, she gets very horny, even more than me sometimes. So she is aware of it and when I am horny and she is not I ask her to cuddle with me. Then we take it from there. If she gets horny we have full sex. If not she will usually take care of me and enjoy it since even if she is not horny she enjoys giving me pleasure. I have done the same for her. 

Try something I did because at times sex when you do not have to reciprocate or worry about your sex partner, is what you desire. Offer to have sex focused only on her. She is not expected to reciprocate; just lay back and enjoy her orgasm, then leave the bed. We even got into chastity play where she can have as many orgasms as she wants and I only got one every few months. She was skeptical at first but over time she began to enjoy having sex just for her pleasure so we had more sex. She still masturbate but it was less than before. Then we incorporated her masturbation into our sex. I asked her what she wanted me to do while she used her vibrator on herself and did it. As time went by we got more and more into regular sex again and her vibrator is always welcome in our bed.

Try not to confuse the masturbation with your sex with her. Keep them as separate issues and focus on reaching compromise on increasing the frequency of your sex with her. There may be things she thinks of when she masturbates that do not happen in bed with your. Here is what I learned; my wife was fantasizing about sex with women and if I was in bed with her, that was not possible. When I learned that we did a threesome with her girlfriend which she loved. What we did about that is a story for another time but it identified the problem which then enabled us to solve it. 46 years of a great sex life as a result.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Icantfigureherout said:


> The issue is that she only wants to use it alone. I’m fine with that although I’d love to be involved. I just get worried because I wish she’d want to have sex with me more frequently and it’s tough if she chooses her toy when I’m willing and able


That's because her toy is a lot less work than you - and she doesn't have to cook and clean for it when she's done with it. :grin2:


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## MattMatt

Have you guys tried counselling?


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## AttaBoy

Icantfigureherout said:


> The issue is that she only wants to use it* alone*. I’m fine with that although I’d love to be involved. I just get worried because I wish she’d want to have sex with me more frequently and it’s tough if she chooses her toy when I’m willing and able


Alone as in behind a locked door? With her phone or computer available? Is there anything in her behavior that could indicate she is sharing that solo experience with someone other than you?


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## Icantfigureherout

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Icantfigureherout said:
> 
> 
> 
> The issue is that she only wants to use it alone. I’m fine with that although I’d love to be involved. I just get worried because I wish she’d want to have sex with me more frequently and it’s tough if she chooses her toy when I’m willing and able
> 
> 
> 
> That's because her toy is a lot less work than you - and she doesn't have to cook and clean for it when she's done with it. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a>[/QUOTE
> 
> You’re assuming I don’t help with that stuff but I do. I’m just trying to get to a healthy sex life where we are BOTH satisfied. I feel like that’s not such a bad thing to want
Click to expand...


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## Icantfigureherout

AttaBoy said:


> Icantfigureherout said:
> 
> 
> 
> The issue is that she only wants to use it* alone*. I’m fine with that although I’d love to be involved. I just get worried because I wish she’d want to have sex with me more frequently and it’s tough if she chooses her toy when I’m willing and able
> 
> 
> 
> Alone as in behind a locked door? With her phone or computer available? Is there anything in her behavior that could indicate she is sharing that solo experience with someone other than you?
Click to expand...

Not worried at all that there’s somebody else in the picture


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## Icantfigureherout

To clarify my biggest concern is that if she already has a low sex drive that If she starts pleasing herself often that she will have zero desire left when I’m around. I always feel like she’s kinda selfish in the bedroom as is so worrying this will just be an extension of that.


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## StarFires

First of all......



Mr.Married said:


> You have to understand first that there is nothing wrong with her enjoying her new toy and you need to make every single effort to provide her with approval and support.
> If you make any commit what so ever or give her the feeling you don't approve you will ruin a good thing.
> 
> Next time the two of you are intimate take the toy and use it together.
> 
> You masturbate but that doesn't mean your wife is insecure bout your hand.
> 
> Whatever you do....do not....do not...do not.....show any insecurities to her over this. Just don't do it.
> 
> "almost always good and she orgasms." While yes this is good you should understand that it isn't the "end all, be all" for a woman. Don't use that as a litmus test
> for her being satisfied. You need to engage her mentally for the best experience.
> 
> Do you still "date" your wife .....romance her?


.....that deserved repeating.

And secondly.....



jlg07 said:


> How about just talking to your wife about it? DO NOT be accusatory or agressive about it. Be calm and non-emotional.
> 
> Just "Honey, I know that you've been using your toy quite a bit and I'm glad you like it. I was wondering though why you don't ask ME to help you out if you are horny? "
> You need to get to the root of why she is sex-avoidant with you -- there may be any number of reasons but you should talk DIRECTLY with her about this.


.....please do not do this.

And thirdly, Vinnydee offered some great ideas.

And finally, it may be that you have to figure out how to do for your wife what her toy does for her. This has become more and more apparent every day on this board, but some of the guys around here don't seem to be getting the message. We used to be called names like "frigid" and "cold fish." You could very well be one of those men who would label your wife similarly because now those terms have turned into "low drive" and "no sex drive." Well, I guess we women should be grateful that at least the label has softened a little bit.

On boards like this one, you see guys saying "She just didn't want to have sex with ME" after thinking she was low drive but discovered their wife had an affair.

I've never seen it on this board but have seen women saying on other boards "I thought I was low drive but after my divorce, I discovered I'm not."

And now here you are on the board saying she prefers her toy to you.

I'm a #11 (if you're familiar with numerology at all), which means, as I discovered over my lifetime, that I have a somewhat elevated level of intuition. But I'm no doggoned clairvoyant and it doesn't take any kind of elevated level of talent or anything else to see what is going on here and what has, clearly to me anyways, always been the problem.

In general, women ARE low drive. But that only means we're not always raring to go like most men are. We don't wake with a woody. We don't cream from seeing every man in a suit or gym shorts. I may be exaggerating and maybe there are some women who are like that (and maybe not all men are like that), but my point is that we're not visual creatures like men are, so we don't go about our daily lives saying "I could hit that" over every man we see. We do get horny and when we're not, we are willing even if not initially in the mood because we know we're still going to enjoy having sex. But that's only if we DO enjoy having sex. If we don't, then it's something to endure, and we're much less willing t endure it.

But enjoying sex isn't something the woman is unable to do. Your wife enjoys her vibrator just fine and more often than she's willing to have sex with you. So, why isn't it obvious that she's not a "cold fish" she's not "frigid" and she's not "low drive?"

I say these types of things and some of the guys on this board get their knickers bent out of shape. Others might get their feelings hurt. But I'm neither attacking nor trying to be insensitive. I'm just telling you that you need to get yourself some skills and learn how to make your wife happy in and out of the bedroom. Either do, or complain and fear your sex life will devolve into solo activities for both of you like you're doing right now so you can console yourself with labels like "low drive."

Please don't respond to me with "She has orgasms when we have sex" because I'm not trying to challenge you. I understand this may be hard to swallow. I also understand that we women are such complex creatures and so entirely different from you that it's hard to know what is required and might even seem impossible to please us, but it really isn't. You just have to know our anatomy, know what to do, and know how to do it. You have to put some devotion into learning and if you think it's too much work that you really don't want to have to apply yourself, switch your frame of thought back to your complaint about your sex life and realize your wife shouldn't have to endure you and your lack of interest in her either, and she doesn't want to - hence your misconception that she's "low drive." And then remember how many times a week that toy of hers proves you wrong. 

And speaking of the toy, several of the guys have suggested you use it with her. You, yourself, thought you'd become a member of their party. But without knowing what you're doing in terms of what is required of you to please her, then she doesn't want to invite you to the party because that would still be the same. It's possible she and the toy have discovered some things that maybe she didn't know before. You need to do that too. She will appreciate you for it and the reward will be grand for both of you. 

There are some good pointers in my response here, and there is lots of information on the internet and in books. Get busy so your own sex life can be as fulfilling for you as hers has become. It doesn't make sense that you have to feel left out, but only you can keep yourself out. 

And don't forget to read Mr. Married's post again. Then read it again. And again.


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## Icantfigureherout

StarFires said:


> First of all......
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Married said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have to understand first that there is nothing wrong with her enjoying her new toy and you need to make every single effort to provide her with approval and support.
> If you make any commit what so ever or give her the feeling you don't approve you will ruin a good thing.
> 
> Next time the two of you are intimate take the toy and use it together.
> 
> You masturbate but that doesn't mean your wife is insecure bout your hand.
> 
> Whatever you do....do not....do not...do not.....show any insecurities to her over this. Just don't do it.
> 
> "almost always good and she orgasms." While yes this is good you should understand that it isn't the "end all, be all" for a woman. Don't use that as a litmus test
> for her being satisfied. You need to engage her mentally for the best experience.
> 
> Do you still "date" your wife .....romance her?
> 
> 
> 
> .....that deserved repeating.
> 
> And secondly.....
> 
> 
> 
> jlg07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about just talking to your wife about it? DO NOT be accusatory or agressive about it. Be calm and non-emotional.
> 
> Just "Honey, I know that you've been using your toy quite a bit and I'm glad you like it. I was wondering though why you don't ask ME to help you out if you are horny? "
> You need to get to the root of why she is sex-avoidant with you -- there may be any number of reasons but you should talk DIRECTLY with her about this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .....please do not do this.
> 
> And thirdly, Vinnydee offered some great ideas.
> 
> And finally, it may be that you have to figure out how to do for your wife what her toy does for her. This has become more and more apparent every day on this board, but some of the guys around here don't seem to be getting the message. We used to be called names like "frigid" and "cold fish." You could very well be one of those men who would label your wife similarly because now those terms have turned into "low drive" and "no sex drive." Well, I guess we women should be grateful that at least the label has softened a little bit.
> 
> On boards like this one, you see guys saying "She just didn't want to have sex with ME" after thinking she was low drive but discovered their wife had an affair.
> 
> I've never seen it on this board but have seen women saying on other boards "I thought I was low drive but after my divorce, I discovered I'm not."
> 
> And now here you are on the board saying she prefers her toy to you.
> 
> I'm a #11 (if you're familiar with numerology at all), which means, as I discovered over my lifetime, that I have a somewhat elevated level of intuition. But I'm no doggoned clairvoyant and it doesn't take any kind of elevated level of talent or anything else to see what is going on here and what has, clearly to me anyways, always been the problem.
> 
> In general, women ARE low drive. But that only means we're not always raring to go like most men are. We don't wake with a woody. We don't cream from seeing every man in a suit or gym shorts. I may be exaggerating and maybe there are some women who are like that (and maybe not all men are like that), but my point is that we're not visual creatures like men are, so we don't go about our daily lives saying "I could hit that" over every man we see. We do get horny and when we're not, we are willing even if not initially in the mood because we know we're still going to enjoy having sex. But that's only if we DO enjoy having sex. If we don't, then it's something to endure, and we're much less willing t endure it.
> 
> But enjoying sex isn't something the woman is unable to do. Your wife enjoys her vibrator just fine and more often than she's willing to have sex with you. So, why isn't it obvious that she's not a "cold fish" she's not "frigid" and she's not "low drive?"
> 
> I say these types of things and some of the guys on this board get their knickers bent out of shape. Others might get their feelings hurt. But I'm neither attacking nor trying to be insensitive. I'm just telling you that you need to get yourself some skills and learn how to make your wife happy in and out of the bedroom. Either do, or complain and fear your sex life will devolve into solo activities for both of you like you're doing right now so you can console yourself with labels like "low drive."
> 
> Please don't respond to me with "She has orgasms when we have sex" because I'm not trying to challenge you. I understand this may be hard to swallow. I also understand that we women are such complex creatures and so entirely different from you that it's hard to know what is required and might even seem impossible to please us, but it really isn't. You just have to know our anatomy, know what to do, and know how to do it. You have to put some devotion into learning and if you think it's too much work that you really don't want to have to apply yourself, switch your frame of thought back to your complaint about your sex life and realize your wife shouldn't have to endure you and your lack of interest in her either, and she doesn't want to - hence your misconception that she's "low drive." And then remember how many times a week that toy of hers proves you wrong.
> 
> And speaking of the toy, several of the guys have suggested you use it with her. You, yourself, thought you'd become a member of their party. But without knowing what you're doing in terms of what is required of you to please her, then she doesn't want to invite you to the party because that would still be the same. It's possible she and the toy have discovered some things that maybe she didn't know before. You need to do that too. She will appreciate you for it and the reward will be grand for both of you.
> 
> There are some good pointers in my response here, and there is lots of information on the internet and in books. Get busy so your own sex life can be as fulfilling for you as hers has become. It doesn't make sense that you have to feel left out, but only you can keep yourself out.
> 
> And don't forget to read Mr. Married's post again. Then read it again. And again.
Click to expand...

While I sorta appreciate your thoughts, there’s so many assumptions about me and my wife in your reply that it’s tough to sort through it for info that seems genuinely helpful. I’m definitely not looking to start an argument so I’m not gonna break down the whole thing. One thing though, I’ve never called by wife frigid or a cold fish or “accused” her of being low sex drive like I’m trying to insult her. She has been the one to label herself as low drive so that’s the only reason i said that(she is also on anti depressants whick I know doesn’t help). Also, I make every effort to make things about her and I’m very much devoted to being keen on what she likes but why is it not ok for a man to want their wife to occasionally treat him like she wants to be treated. It is possible for a woman to be the selfish one in a sexual relationship too. Is it wrong tha i want her to want to learn how to please me too? Also, I supported her getting the toy and a few years ago convinced her that she should try masterbating and that it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I only posted to have “someone” to say some things I’m thinking out loud to. I’m just trying to figure out how to have a sex life where we’re both fulfilled.


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## Tasorundo

If you could answer the questions I asked earlier, I think it could shed some more light on the situation.

For all we know, she rejects you every time you initiate and masturbates 10x a day.


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## ConanHub

Icantfigureherout said:


> While I sorta appreciate your thoughts, there’s so many assumptions about me and my wife in your reply that it’s tough to sort through it for info that seems genuinely helpful. I’m definitely not looking to start an argument so I’m not gonna break down the whole thing. One thing though, I’ve never called by wife frigid or a cold fish or “accused” her of being low sex drive like I’m trying to insult her. She has been the one to label herself as low drive so that’s the only reason i said that(she is also on anti depressants whick I know doesn’t help). Also, I make every effort to make things about her and I’m very much devoted to being keen on what she likes but why is it not ok for a man to want their wife to occasionally treat him like she wants to be treated. It is possible for a woman to be the selfish one in a sexual relationship too. Is it wrong tha i want her to want to learn how to please me too? Also, I supported her getting the toy and a few years ago convinced her that she should try masterbating and that it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I only posted to have “someone” to say some things I’m thinking out loud to. I’m just trying to figure out how to have a sex life where we’re both fulfilled.


She and he were giving good advice based on their experiences and a lot of it is useful.

She might not have everything right about what is going on in your marriage but she is spot on about a lot of her advice about many, maybe most, women and sexuality.

I don't agree with everything she says but she is being straight with her perspective.

There is obviously a disconnect between you and your wife.

She is obviously enjoying sex with her toy. You are getting some good input here. If you just came to vent, enjoy.

I happen to agree with @StarFires and @Mr.Married

I have never experienced a low drive woman. Every woman I have been with was dtf and all of them were the initiators.

I have turned down far more women than I ever gave into and all of them were offering their kitties on a platter.

Your wife isn't being stirred up and hopefully that can be remedied but if you believe you have her totally figured out then your situation is hopeless because she apparently is a sexual creature, just not with you.

I do agree that your marriage needs improvement and a good partner cares about a spouses pleasure.

She is not satisfying you and is apparently fine with that. Furthermore, she doesn't appear to be that interested in having you pleasure her and prefers to take care of herself with her toy.

That is pretty disfunctional and I would be far more alarmed about the health of your marriage than just your sexual frustration.


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## EllisRedding

Icantfigureherout said:


> To clarify my biggest concern is that if she already has a low sex drive that If she starts pleasing herself often that she will have zero desire left when I’m around. I always feel like she’s kinda selfish in the bedroom as is so worrying this will just be an extension of that.


I think this is a legit concern (which I think falls in line with what I posted). The question, is she using the toy as an enhancement to their sex life or as a possible replacement. The problem is, unless she is completely honest with you, you have no way of really knowing. If you feel like you and your W are not having sex enough, but she is matching or exceeding her time alone with the toy, that is a problem... Gotta talk this out with her and hope she is open to discuss.


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## Icantfigureherout

ConanHub said:


> Icantfigureherout said:
> 
> 
> 
> While I sorta appreciate your thoughts, there’s so many assumptions about me and my wife in your reply that it’s tough to sort through it for info that seems genuinely helpful. I’m definitely not looking to start an argument so I’m not gonna break down the whole thing. One thing though, I’ve never called by wife frigid or a cold fish or “accused” her of being low sex drive like I’m trying to insult her. She has been the one to label herself as low drive so that’s the only reason i said that(she is also on anti depressants whick I know doesn’t help). Also, I make every effort to make things about her and I’m very much devoted to being keen on what she likes but why is it not ok for a man to want their wife to occasionally treat him like she wants to be treated. It is possible for a woman to be the selfish one in a sexual relationship too. Is it wrong tha i want her to want to learn how to please me too? Also, I supported her getting the toy and a few years ago convinced her that she should try masterbating and that it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I only posted to have “someone” to say some things I’m thinking out loud to. I’m just trying to figure out how to have a sex life where we’re both fulfilled.
> 
> 
> 
> She and he were giving good advice based on their experiences and a lot of it is useful.
> 
> She might not have everything right about what is going on in your marriage but she is spot on about a lot of her advice about many, maybe most, women and sexuality.
> 
> I don't agree with everything she says but she is being straight with her perspective.
> 
> There is obviously a disconnect between you and your wife.
> 
> She is obviously enjoying sex with her toy. You are getting some good input here. If you just came to vent, enjoy.
> 
> I happen to agree with @StarFires and @Mr.Married
> 
> I have never experienced a low drive woman. Every woman I have been with was dtf and all of them were the initiators.
> 
> I have turned down far more women than I ever gave into and all of them were offering their kitties on a platter.
> 
> Your wife isn't being stirred up and hopefully that can be remedied but if you believe you have her totally figured out then your situation is hopeless because she apparently is a sexual creature, just not with you.
> 
> I do agree that your marriage needs improvement and a good partner cares about a spouses pleasure.
> 
> She is not satisfying you and is apparently fine with that. Furthermore, she doesn't appear to be that interested in having you pleasure her and prefers to take care of herself with her toy.
> 
> That is pretty disfunctional and I would be far more alarmed about the health of your marriage than just your sexual frustration.
Click to expand...

 I am venting but I really am open to some insight. It’s not that she’s completely shutting me out. In general we have sex about once a week as far as I know taking care of herself about the same. I would love it more often so I guess that leaves me a little sexually frustrated any maybe overthinking. I definitely do not think I have her figured out and feel like there’s always work to be done on the marriage. I think sometimes I maybe resent her equal lack of effort towards improving our sex lives. For example i live to receive oral but it’s not her favorite thing to do so I get it once a year on my bday for about 2 minutes. She likes to receive oral so she gets it at the snap of her finger.


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## sokillme

First question, which I should be asked with the majority of these threads. Have you talked to her about this? What does she say?

Maybe you can ask to be involved with no strings attached. In other words let it be all about her getting off. See what that gets you.

Seems you are finding out she is not as low sex drive as you thought. Maybe she is too, so ask to be a part of that.


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## Icantfigureherout

Tasorundo said:


> How often is she using it?
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> Has she be reluctant to have sex with your more frequently than the current rate?
> 
> Who initiates?


She seems to be using it about once a week which is about how often we have sex .
I notice because I can tell when it’s been moved in a mutual drawer we share.

In general when we have sex she initiates it 90% of the time. The only time I initiate really is when I’m so pent up I just can’t wait any more. The main reasons I don’t initiate is that I don’t want to have sex with her if she doesn’t want it and she often seems to be putting out the too tired or not in the mood vibe. Then about once a week she’ll be a touch more responsive to my flirting throughout the day and just more jolly in general and I’ll know today is the day she’s going to want to get intimate. It’s exciting and frustrating at the same time.


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## Tasorundo

So, the same thing people tell me: If you want to have sex, initiate it. If you want to have more sex, initiate more sex.


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## sokillme

StarFires said:


> First of all......
> 
> 
> 
> .....that deserved repeating.
> 
> And secondly.....
> 
> 
> 
> .....please do not do this.
> 
> And thirdly, Vinnydee offered some great ideas.
> 
> And finally, it may be that you have to figure out how to do for your wife what her toy does for her. This has become more and more apparent every day on this board, but some of the guys around here don't seem to be getting the message. We used to be called names like "frigid" and "cold fish." You could very well be one of those men who would label your wife similarly because now those terms have turned into "low drive" and "no sex drive." Well, I guess we women should be grateful that at least the label has softened a little bit.
> 
> On boards like this one, you see guys saying "She just didn't want to have sex with ME" after thinking she was low drive but discovered their wife had an affair.
> 
> I've never seen it on this board but have seen women saying on other boards "I thought I was low drive but after my divorce, I discovered I'm not."
> 
> And now here you are on the board saying she prefers her toy to you.
> 
> I'm a #11 (if you're familiar with numerology at all), which means, as I discovered over my lifetime, that I have a somewhat elevated level of intuition. But I'm no doggoned clairvoyant and it doesn't take any kind of elevated level of talent or anything else to see what is going on here and what has, clearly to me anyways, always been the problem.
> 
> In general, women ARE low drive. But that only means we're not always raring to go like most men are. We don't wake with a woody. We don't cream from seeing every man in a suit or gym shorts. I may be exaggerating and maybe there are some women who are like that (and maybe not all men are like that), but my point is that we're not visual creatures like men are, so we don't go about our daily lives saying "I could hit that" over every man we see. We do get horny and when we're not, we are willing even if not initially in the mood because we know we're still going to enjoy having sex. But that's only if we DO enjoy having sex. If we don't, then it's something to endure, and we're much less willing t endure it.
> 
> But enjoying sex isn't something the woman is unable to do. Your wife enjoys her vibrator just fine and more often than she's willing to have sex with you. So, why isn't it obvious that she's not a "cold fish" she's not "frigid" and she's not "low drive?"
> 
> I say these types of things and some of the guys on this board get their knickers bent out of shape. Others might get their feelings hurt. But I'm neither attacking nor trying to be insensitive. I'm just telling you that you need to get yourself some skills and learn how to make your wife happy in and out of the bedroom. Either do, or complain and fear your sex life will devolve into solo activities for both of you like you're doing right now so you can console yourself with labels like "low drive."
> 
> Please don't respond to me with "She has orgasms when we have sex" because I'm not trying to challenge you. I understand this may be hard to swallow. I also understand that we women are such complex creatures and so entirely different from you that it's hard to know what is required and might even seem impossible to please us, but it really isn't. You just have to know our anatomy, know what to do, and know how to do it. You have to put some devotion into learning and if you think it's too much work that you really don't want to have to apply yourself, switch your frame of thought back to your complaint about your sex life and realize your wife shouldn't have to endure you and your lack of interest in her either, and she doesn't want to - hence your misconception that she's "low drive." And then remember how many times a week that toy of hers proves you wrong.
> 
> And speaking of the toy, several of the guys have suggested you use it with her. You, yourself, thought you'd become a member of their party. But without knowing what you're doing in terms of what is required of you to please her, then she doesn't want to invite you to the party because that would still be the same. It's possible she and the toy have discovered some things that maybe she didn't know before. You need to do that too. She will appreciate you for it and the reward will be grand for both of you.
> 
> There are some good pointers in my response here, and there is lots of information on the internet and in books. Get busy so your own sex life can be as fulfilling for you as hers has become. It doesn't make sense that you have to feel left out, but only you can keep yourself out.
> 
> And don't forget to read Mr. Married's post again. Then read it again. And again.


I agree with most of this and actually think it gives good insight. I have written similar posts. But I also think it misses a some of the problem. Most of the time in these situations one of the partners completely abandons the other, and that is where it all starts. So granted he could be terrible in bed but that doesn't give her the right to throw her hands up and not address or at least try to fix it. It's not fair to be like, well then we will never do this anymore. To act like it's not a valid want from him. That is not how marriage works and if you do that you are being a terrible partner. 

This is no different then the guy who stops emotionally communicating with his wife, because it's hard. In that case he is not good at it and he gets no real pleasure from it but it's not acceptable in marriage to say. "Well I am not interested in having deep conversations because I don't know what to say and I don't really enjoy it anyway." Then he goes out and works on his car every night. You can't just abandon your wife because you are not into emotional intimacy for whatever reason. So to with physical intimacy. 

In a sense we are saying the same thing. However like the guy who doesn't really know himself emotionally the women who doesn't really know her body's needs to also do work to figure it out. It's not all up to him to just find the best technique. Not everyone is born a natural lover, it takes work. And there is never going to be a better expert to her body then herself. If she hasn't taken the time to get to know it, the chances are pretty small that he is going to. And not everyone is the same so in your scenario it really comes down to luck. To me that is just lazy thinking. Maybe they will be one of the luck people who everything is great from the start but sex is a partner sport. It's like dancing they both have to work at it. It's also not static. Frankly even if it's very good at the start if she is not trying to learn about herself that is where it stops. It's very selfish of HER to say, well this isn't working for me so I am done. That's not how anything in marriage works. Better or worse right? 

At the very least she should be telling him, look the sex isn't good and working to make it better. Spouses who don't communicate their unhappiness are bad spouses even if it's difficult. Sometimes you need to have thoughtful productive confrontation to have a better marriage.


----------



## Icantfigureherout

sokillme said:


> StarFires said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all......
> 
> 
> 
> .....that deserved repeating.
> 
> And secondly.....
> 
> 
> 
> .....please do not do this.
> 
> And thirdly, Vinnydee offered some great ideas.
> 
> And finally, it may be that you have to figure out how to do for your wife what her toy does for her. This has become more and more apparent every day on this board, but some of the guys around here don't seem to be getting the message. We used to be called names like "frigid" and "cold fish." You could very well be one of those men who would label your wife similarly because now those terms have turned into "low drive" and "no sex drive." Well, I guess we women should be grateful that at least the label has softened a little bit.
> 
> On boards like this one, you see guys saying "She just didn't want to have sex with ME" after thinking she was low drive but discovered their wife had an affair.
> 
> I've never seen it on this board but have seen women saying on other boards "I thought I was low drive but after my divorce, I discovered I'm not."
> 
> And now here you are on the board saying she prefers her toy to you.
> 
> I'm a #11 (if you're familiar with numerology at all), which means, as I discovered over my lifetime, that I have a somewhat elevated level of intuition. But I'm no doggoned clairvoyant and it doesn't take any kind of elevated level of talent or anything else to see what is going on here and what has, clearly to me anyways, always been the problem.
> 
> In general, women ARE low drive. But that only means we're not always raring to go like most men are. We don't wake with a woody. We don't cream from seeing every man in a suit or gym shorts. I may be exaggerating and maybe there are some women who are like that (and maybe not all men are like that), but my point is that we're not visual creatures like men are, so we don't go about our daily lives saying "I could hit that" over every man we see. We do get horny and when we're not, we are willing even if not initially in the mood because we know we're still going to enjoy having sex. But that's only if we DO enjoy having sex. If we don't, then it's something to endure, and we're much less willing t endure it.
> 
> But enjoying sex isn't something the woman is unable to do. Your wife enjoys her vibrator just fine and more often than she's willing to have sex with you. So, why isn't it obvious that she's not a "cold fish" she's not "frigid" and she's not "low drive?"
> 
> I say these types of things and some of the guys on this board get their knickers bent out of shape. Others might get their feelings hurt. But I'm neither attacking nor trying to be insensitive. I'm just telling you that you need to get yourself some skills and learn how to make your wife happy in and out of the bedroom. Either do, or complain and fear your sex life will devolve into solo activities for both of you like you're doing right now so you can console yourself with labels like "low drive."
> 
> Please don't respond to me with "She has orgasms when we have sex" because I'm not trying to challenge you. I understand this may be hard to swallow. I also understand that we women are such complex creatures and so entirely different from you that it's hard to know what is required and might even seem impossible to please us, but it really isn't. You just have to know our anatomy, know what to do, and know how to do it. You have to put some devotion into learning and if you think it's too much work that you really don't want to have to apply yourself, switch your frame of thought back to your complaint about your sex life and realize your wife shouldn't have to endure you and your lack of interest in her either, and she doesn't want to - hence your misconception that she's "low drive." And then remember how many times a week that toy of hers proves you wrong.
> 
> And speaking of the toy, several of the guys have suggested you use it with her. You, yourself, thought you'd become a member of their party. But without knowing what you're doing in terms of what is required of you to please her, then she doesn't want to invite you to the party because that would still be the same. It's possible she and the toy have discovered some things that maybe she didn't know before. You need to do that too. She will appreciate you for it and the reward will be grand for both of you.
> 
> There are some good pointers in my response here, and there is lots of information on the internet and in books. Get busy so your own sex life can be as fulfilling for you as hers has become. It doesn't make sense that you have to feel left out, but only you can keep yourself out.
> 
> And don't forget to read Mr. Married's post again. Then read it again. And again.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with most of this and actually think it gives good insight. I have written similar posts. But I also think it misses a some of the problem. Most of the time in these situations one of the partners completely abandons the other, and that is where it all starts. So granted he could be terrible in bed but that doesn't give her the right to throw her hands up and not address or at least try to fix it. It's not fair to be like, well then we will never do this anymore. To act like it's not a valid want from him. That is not how marriage works and if you do that you are being a terrible partner.
> 
> This is no different then the guy who stops emotionally communicating with his wife, because it's hard. In that case he is not good at it and he gets no real pleasure from it but it's not acceptable in marriage to say. "Well I am not interested in having deep conversations because I don't know what to say and I don't really enjoy it anyway." Then he goes out and works on his car every night. You can't just abandon your wife because you are not into emotional intimacy for whatever reason. So to with physical intimacy.
> 
> In a sense we are saying the same thing. However like the guy who doesn't really know himself emotionally the women who doesn't really know her body's needs to also do work to figure it out. It's not all up to him to just find the best technique. Not everyone is born a natural lover, it takes work. And there is never going to be a better expert to her body then herself. If she hasn't taken the time to get to know it, the chances are pretty small that he is going to. And not everyone is the same so in your scenario it really comes down to luck. To me that is just lazy thinking. Maybe they will be one of the luck people who everything is great from the start but sex is a partner sport. It's like dancing they both have to work at it. It's also not static. Frankly even if it's very good at the start if she is not trying to learn about herself that is where it stops. It's very selfish of HER to say, well this isn't working for me so I am done. That's not how anything in marriage works. Better or worse right?
> 
> At the very least she should be telling him, look the sex isn't good and working to make it better. Spouses who don't communicate their unhappiness are bad spouses even if it's difficult. Sometimes you need to have thoughtful productive confrontation to have a better marriage.
Click to expand...

The quality of the sex hasn’t really been the problem. I know there’s always room for improvement and it’s nice to keep things exciting but it’s the frequency that gets me frustrated. She has been very vocal that the sex is good when we get intimate . I just don’t feel like she puts much effort in to want to try to satisfy me a little more so I guess it bothers me when she’s down to give extra effort for herself but not for us? And to be clear again I’m ok with her masterbating it’s just when you yourself are wishing for more it can frustrate you. I’m not saying I’m not being complicated but this is how I feel and feelings are real


----------



## notmyjamie

Icantfigureherout said:


> In general when we have sex she initiates it 90% of the time. The only time I initiate really is when I’m so pent up I just can’t wait any more. The main reasons I don’t initiate is that I don’t want to have sex with her if she doesn’t want it and she often seems to be putting out the too tired or not in the mood vibe.


I have often said to my husband "if you want sex, don't ask. Just take" and what I mean by that is that there is NOTHING sexy about being asked "hey, can we have sex right now" but there is something very sexy about him coming up to me and doing the stuff that he knows will get me in the mood even if I wasn't in the mood 5 minutes prior. There are certain things that get me in the mood no matter what so if you want sex, just come do those things and you'll get sex and it will be much better than duty sex which is what happens if I'm not in the mood and you ask instead of take. I'm sure this isn't true of all women but I also know I'm not alone in feeling this way.

Do you know what revs your wife up? If not, you should figure it out and experiment with that. I'm not saying it will work 100% of the time but it's worth thinking about. Also if you've fallen into a pattern of not initiating that much, she might not think she's all that wanted anymore and so she's turning to the toy to meet her needs. You won't know for sure unless you talk to her about it.


----------



## sokillme

Icantfigureherout said:


> The quality of the sex hasn’t really been the problem. I know there’s always room for improvement and it’s nice to keep things exciting but it’s the frequency that gets me frustrated. She has been very vocal that the sex is good when we get intimate . I just don’t feel like she puts much effort in to want to try to satisfy me a little more so I guess it bothers me when she’s down to give extra effort for herself but not for us? And to be clear again I’m ok with her masterbating it’s just when you yourself are wishing for more it can frustrate you. I’m not saying I’m not being complicated but this is how I feel and feelings are real


Lots of women seem to think that all they have to do is lay there an that makes them a goddess. There seems to be this idea that it's up to the guy to do all the work. It actually makes sense seeing how easily we can orgasm and how much harder it is for them, but it still isn't right. They can get away with it when they are young and with young men, but in general men and women who put in no effort into their partner's pleasure when they are having sex are selfish and make for lousy lovers. This kind of thing doesn't work anymore from both sexes. Sex is just too available. 

But my advice stands for you too. You are not being a good spouse is you are not clearly communicating your needs and where you are unhappy. Talk to her. If you want to have a good sex life you need to communicate your needs. The problem with all of this is for every person who says you need to do this there is another person saying DON'T ever do that. Sex is like food, everyone has their own unique tastes Which again is why you need to talk to her about it.


----------



## ConanHub

Icantfigureherout said:


> The quality of the sex hasn’t really been the problem. I know there’s always room for improvement and it’s nice to keep things exciting but it’s the frequency that gets me frustrated. She has been very vocal that the sex is good when we get intimate . I just don’t feel like she puts much effort in to want to try to satisfy me a little more so I guess it bothers me when she’s down to give extra effort for herself but not for us? And to be clear again I’m ok with her masterbating it’s just when you yourself are wishing for more it can frustrate you. I’m not saying I’m not being complicated but this is how I feel and feelings are real


Ok. She is behaving selfishly especially with your example of mutual oral gratification.

The foundation of her selfishness might need determined but part of it is taking you for granted, a lack of respect for you and love as well.

What are your ages? What kind of shape are you both in? Do you have kids? Sorry if you have already answered.


----------



## Icantfigureherout

ConanHub said:


> Icantfigureherout said:
> 
> 
> 
> The quality of the sex hasn’t really been the problem. I know there’s always room for improvement and it’s nice to keep things exciting but it’s the frequency that gets me frustrated. She has been very vocal that the sex is good when we get intimate . I just don’t feel like she puts much effort in to want to try to satisfy me a little more so I guess it bothers me when she’s down to give extra effort for herself but not for us? And to be clear again I’m ok with her masterbating it’s just when you yourself are wishing for more it can frustrate you. I’m not saying I’m not being complicated but this is how I feel and feelings are real
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. She is behaving selfishly especially with your example of mutual oral gratification.
> 
> The foundation of her selfishness might need determined but part of it is taking you for granted, a lack of respect for you and love as well.
> 
> What are your ages? What kind of shape are you both in? Do you have kids? Sorry if you have already answered.
Click to expand...

We are in our mid 30’s with two kids, the youngest is 5. I am pretty fit and my wife has put on some weight since kids but I assure her in the regular that her beauty remains.


----------



## StarFires

notmyjamie said:


> I have often said to my husband "if you want sex, don't ask. Just take" and what I mean by that is that there is NOTHING sexy about being asked "hey, can we have sex right now" but there is something very sexy about him coming up to me and doing the stuff that he knows will get me in the mood even if I wasn't in the mood 5 minutes prior. There are certain things that get me in the mood no matter what so if you want sex, just come do those things and you'll get sex and it will be much better than duty sex which is what happens if I'm not in the mood and you ask instead of take. I'm sure this isn't true of all women but I also know I'm not alone in feeling this way.
> 
> Do you know what revs your wife up? If not, you should figure it out and experiment with that. I'm not saying it will work 100% of the time but it's worth thinking about. Also if you've fallen into a pattern of not initiating that much, she might not think she's all that wanted anymore and so she's turning to the toy to meet her needs. You won't know for sure unless you talk to her about it.


I 'liked' this post but don't feel that does it justice. Wish I could plaster it across the top of every page lol.



Icantfigureherout said:


> While I sorta appreciate your thoughts, there’s so many assumptions about me and my wife in your reply that it’s tough to sort through it for info that seems genuinely helpful. I’m definitely not looking to start an argument so I’m not gonna break down the whole thing. One thing though, I’ve never called by wife frigid or a cold fish or “accused” her of being low sex drive like I’m trying to insult her. She has been the one to label herself as low drive so that’s the only reason i said that(she is also on anti depressants whick I know doesn’t help). Also, I make every effort to make things about her and I’m very much devoted to being keen on what she likes but why is it not ok for a man to want their wife to occasionally treat him like she wants to be treated. It is possible for a woman to be the selfish one in a sexual relationship too. Is it wrong tha i want her to want to learn how to please me too? Also, I supported her getting the toy and a few years ago convinced her that she should try masterbating and that it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I only posted to have “someone” to say some things I’m thinking out loud to. I’m just trying to figure out how to have a sex life where we’re both fulfilled.


I didn't mean it as though you said it to her but about her, labeling her similarly to the ones we used to be called (and maybe still are). I didn't make assumptions. I responded based on what I inferred from your post and it being the same of women that is repeated so many times a day on these boards. I went back and read your op again and see that you quoted what she says of herself and not that you said it about her, but my response remains the same and is along the lines of what causes you confusion. She obviously isn't "low drive" if she uses the toy, so you're going to have to figure out what and how to do for her what the toy does for her so she's less inclined to prefer it and more often opts to either leave it or incorporate it.

The communication gap between men and women is a very big problem in relationships and always has been. I know and acknowledge that we women are largely responsible for creating that wedge. I am often trying to bridge that gap on the board here in trying to help guys to at least sometimes understand our signals. We don't come out and say the things we think and feel. There are a sundry of reasons for that, each given to their own unique set(s) of circumstances, but one main reason we don't speak up is that we fear hurting your feelings. I stated in my first response that some of the guys here get their knickers twisted by the things I say. Some of them lash out at me, and some of those strikes have been aggressive and quite ridiculous. They show me each time that we women are correct to intuit that we shouldn't express ourselves truthfully to our men. If there are guys who can't take it from a complete stranger who is trying to inform and advise, then they surely wouldn't be able to receive it in their interpersonal relationships. But it's neither my purpose nor intention to hurt anyone's feelings. My hope is that they take what I say and work with it without offense, and then work it into their relationships by understanding and translating our signals, our signals being the codes we use in place of coming out and saying what we fear would otherwise be hurtful. What I was trying to tell you (although I thought it was you saying it) is that your wife saying "I have a low sex drive" is code for "I prefer not to have sex with you," and there is a reason for it that you have to figure out. Telling you is not to deflate you. It's to let you know you have work to do because I've had enough lovers to know that every man, without regard to his particular attributes, can make a woman want him and want to have sex with him. But it's up to him, and he has to be aware of that.



Icantfigureherout said:


> I am venting but I really am open to some insight. It’s not that she’s completely shutting me out. In general we have sex about once a week as far as I know taking care of herself about the same. I would love it more often so I guess that leaves me a little sexually frustrated any maybe overthinking. I definitely do not think I have her figured out and feel like there’s always work to be done on the marriage. I think sometimes I maybe resent her equal lack of effort towards improving our sex lives. For example i live to receive oral but it’s not her favorite thing to do so I get it once a year on my bday for about 2 minutes. She likes to receive oral so she gets it at the snap of her finger.


I hate blowjobs. I absolute HATE blowjobs. I hate'em! I hate'em!! I hate'em!!! I suspect I hate them for the same reason(s) your wife hates them. I asked my husband to never ask me to give him a blowjob because I hate being asked. The request makes it feel like a duty and I hate the feeling of any aspect of our lovemaking to seem like a chore.

However, I give him blowjobs rather frequently to make sure he doesn't miss receiving them. And I give him very enthusiastic blowjobs. I sometimes incorporate his blowjob with anal play because I LOVE making him writhe and holler with his feet in the air. If he were a woman, I would call him a screaming banshee, and I love every screech.

Want to know why I do that? I do it because I used to be selfish just like your wife. Because I hate them so much, I didn't feel I should have to do them. I always did do them and did them almost every session, but I would make it as brief as I thought I could get away with. None of my boyfriends ever complained until I met my match. This guy caught on to my act and decided he wasn't going to do any more for me than I was willing to do for him. And he was right. So I got the message and learned my lesson. 

That guy and I were only together for maybe 6 or 7 months. I learned how selfish he was in that period of time. He was a very good, generous, and considerate lover, but he was extremely selfish in every other aspect of life. Even the childhood stories he would share with me showed how selfish he was. For example, he told me with great pride and delight of how he broke up his mother's marriage (to his stepfather) when he was just 7 years old. His extreme selfish demands were more than I could take, but I was grateful that he set me straight about my own selfishness in the bedroom.

And that's how you should be. Don't become a selfish person, but do get very selfish in bed, refusing to do any more for her than she is willing to do for you. She doesn't like oral, so you don't like oral either. Your pleasure is equally important as hers, and she's wrong to think she can get away with so little consideration for your desires. But I don't suggest you do this until you've shown her your effort in pleasing her in other ways. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine she likes oral because that's the way she orgasms, but if you put in the extra effort that I mentioned before, and learn how to give her vaginal orgasms, then refusing to perform oral won't be neglectful on your part. It will be that you decided to stand up for yourself. And there's nothing wrong with coming out and telling her that you don't appreciate her thinking so little of your pleasure because it makes you feel like she doesn't care.


----------



## Spicy

The next time she is feeling frisky, when things get going, reach in that mutual draw and pull it out...tell her you want to see how she enjoys it and how much that will turn you on...then...PAY ATTENTION.


----------



## Tasorundo

Star, people don't lash out at you because they are hurt by your words, they lash out at you, because you consistently lay all of the problems at the feet of men. You talk about your story and the amount of work you did, then tell men they need to do x, y, z, so their wives might want to have sex with them. Yet, their wives aren't doing any of the work or having whatever revelation you had.

I am going to assume that the toy in question is some sort of vibrator, and if that is the case, she is not having vaginal orgasms now. I would be willing to bet that she has never had one, as most women haven't and there is a scientific debate about even if most can. However, you want him to figure out how to do this, without her input, and do something that most women cannot do by themselves.

You are setting him up for a massive failure and it will end up crushing his self worth even more than it seems it is now.

-----

Icant, it is pretty simple. If you want to have more sex, initiate more sex. If you want more oral, put it on the table in a discussion, or during foreplay guide the activity in that direction. Don't whine, don't complain, be assertive and active. 

I do feel that most women are passive in sex, because that is what they have learned to be. The guy will do what he wants and take what he wants, and hopefully they will enjoy it. That is not how it should be, but I do feel that is how it is. I think most women want to be taken and guided as well. I am not saying everyone if that rubs someone the wrong way. Just in general, they want to be chased, they want to be conquered, and they want you to show them they are sexy and you are passionate for them.


----------



## Tasorundo

Icant, I also want to ask, do you ever masturbate? If so, why? Why didn't you go have sex with your wife instead?

It could just be that she wanted the release, but not the work. Even as a guy, I think sometimes it would be nice to rub one out in hurry than prime the system and get that going. Much less, if it requires oral for her to have an orgasm (not commenting on your abilities at all see my post above), then she might just not be willing to do that. 

She might be embarrassed to use the toy with you.

She might feel broken that she would need that to get off quicker with you.

Most people are massive bundles of insecure, unsure nervous energy when it comes to discussing, much less acting on sexual desires with someone they care deeply about.


----------



## Icantfigureherout

She orgasms from oral and also from vaginal intercourse. It’s not uncommon for her to orgasm a couple times even. Through talking in this thread I think I’m more frustrated about her being a selfish lover and that could be what’s caising me to get frustrated or worry that she was using a toy while I’m at work. I like the idea of her being a more sexual being. Sometimes I feel like she’s just lazy about sex. I go down on her and she’ll orgasm and I love it. During the same session I move to vaginal intercourse and she’ll squirm and orgasm again and I love it. I really do get off on pleasing her so when she knows I would love some oral and I honestly get about 2-5 minutes of it a year I see that as selfish and lazy and just worry that eventually she could be too lazy to use anything but her toy. To clear things up we stil have sex and it’s goid when we do but I’m worried about the future due to my frustration with her lack of concern about pleasing me. And not that it matters but I honestly get hit on at work and whil out and have to turn down blow jobs and such(I do love my wife and only want her) and it’s kind of feels ****ty because I know I’m not gonna get it at home


----------



## StarFires

Tasorundo said:


> Star, people don't lash out at you because they are hurt by your words, they lash out at you, because you consistently lay all of the problems at the feet of men. You talk about your story and the amount of work you did, then tell men they need to do x, y, z, so their wives might want to have sex with them. Yet, their wives aren't doing any of the work or having whatever revelation you had.


Your comment is confusing, contradictory, and confirmation of what I say. And then you confirmed what I say in your response to him......



Tasorundo said:


> I do feel that most women are passive in sex, because that is what they have learned to be. The guy will do what he wants and take what he wants, and hopefully they will enjoy it. That is not how it should be, but I do feel that is how it is. I think most women want to be taken and guided as well. I am not saying everyone if that rubs someone the wrong way. Just in general, they want to be chased, they want to be conquered, and they want you to show them they are sexy and you are passionate for them.


And......



Tasorundo said:


> Most people are massive bundles of insecure, unsure nervous energy when it comes to discussing, much less acting on sexual desires with someone they care deeply about.


I lay the problems at the feet of men because men are the ones complaining that their wife won't have sex with them. So, I tell them why she won't and let them know it's up to them to make her want to. To lash out at me for that is the definition of resentment since I can't very well send them home with a note from school informing their wife on how to improve her love life. Therefore, getting sex or more frequent sex is up to him, so I tell him how to go about it with fully detailed methods and techniques in the link that I always provide, along with the suggestion to look up more information on the net and in books. If you and others can't figure out that IT IS your responsibility to improve your sex life by learning how to make your wife enjoy sex more so that she will want to do it more, then I don't know why you posted the response to him in the second and third quotes above. Acknowledging how women are and then telling me that women are not that way or shouldn't be that way so that men don't have to be responsible for pleasing her is contradictory. If any guy doesn't want to accept that it is his responsibility, that's just fine with me. I'm not clubbing anyone upside their head to force them into adding up their circumstances and applying logic to the outcome. But I do suggest that instead of lashing out at me in resentment for saying it, it would be a better idea to put two and two together to conclude "I might as well learn about her and what she doesn't know about herself in order to make things better for me in the long run." 

Yes, Tas, I share my stories so that you guys can know how I learned, and how I learned was from men who knew what they were doing. They knew more about my body than I knew, and that is the reason I tell them that they can do the same. I mentioned yesterday in another thread that two former boyfriends had learned from older women. Well, here I am - an older woman trying to teach in the only way I'm going to do it because I'm certainly not going to sleep with younger men just so one or two can learn a few things. We all start out relatively clueless, and then somebody along the way learns from someone else and takes those lessons into subsequent relationships. 

I don't understand how you can say women are reticent, "most women are passive in sex....that's how it is.....most women want to be taken and guided, but tell me you guys don't like that I say those exact same things. Saying that it's their responsibility because women are shy, vulnerable, and don't know their own body until they learn about their body is saying the same thing. So what is the problem here except that you don't like me saying it? Most of us learn what feels good to us when such occasion occurs that it feels good to us, so we learn from men who learned before they got to us. That's when we become able to take more responsibility. You guys learn about yourselves from a very early age by performing a solo activity that girls generally don't do (but may be more common with today's generation). And even if they do, it still is not possible for a girl to learn the complexities of her body beyond her clitoris - which actually isn't much - since parents and schools are not in the habit of providing dildos. Therefore, a girl can't learn anything until she's with a man in order to experience those things. She preferably is with a man who can teach her because if not, then she never learns what her body is capable of or what is required (except with a dildo), so she goes unsatisfied without knowing why or what to do about it. And, as you say (that I apparently am not allowed to say), women expect men to take the lead. Until she becomes more knowledgeable and confident, that's just the way it is.

I'm going to disagree just slightly with you saying girls are taught to be passive to add that we are not only taught to be passive but we are automatically shy and passive until we're brought out of our shell. But like I said, recent generations are a lot less shy and passive than former ones, but that's only because of social media and the internet. Lots of girls these days are much more sexualized at very early ages than those of previous generations.



Tasorundo said:


> I am going to assume that the toy in question is some sort of vibrator, and if that is the case, she is not having vaginal orgasms now. I would be willing to bet that she has never had one, as most women haven't and there is a scientific debate about even if most can. However, you want him to figure out how to do this, without her input, and do something that most women cannot do by themselves.
> 
> You are setting him up for a massive failure and it will end up crushing his self worth even more than it seems it is now.


You make too much assumption here. Maybe she's never had a vaginal orgasm and maybe she has, but we can't know if she and the toy have discovered them. There's a good possibility. And no, I did not leave him to figure out how to do anything. I left him with fully detailed instructions, plus the suggestion that he can find anything he wants to know on the internet. I set him up for success, not failure.



Tasorundo said:


> Icant, it is pretty simple. If you want to have more sex, initiate more sex.


Initiating sex more often is not going to get him sex more often. He said she turns him down until he figures out she's in the mood, so she will just continue turning him down until he learns how to make it worth her while. Too many of you guys keep wanting to make sex a just do it prospect, but most women are not like that and resent it, thus they turn you down. So, I'm saying again to stop getting your feelings hurt by what I'm telling you and start getting sex more often.


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## Icantfigureherout

To clear another thing up, I don’t really get turned down ever mostly because I rarely intitiate. When I can see her mood is off I’d int bother to try. Not that I’m mean to her that day, I just assume that today is not the day. I’m reluctant to initiate because If she’s not in the mood I don’t want her to feel obligated.


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## jlg07

sokillme said:


> At the very least she should be telling him, look the sex isn't good and working to make it better. Spouses who don't communicate their unhappiness are bad spouses even if it's difficult. Sometimes you need to have thoughtful productive confrontation to have a better marriage.


EXACTLY what I was saying in my post that folks disagreed with -- TALK WITH YOUR WIFE. It's amazing to me how many married folks don't or can't do that.


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## WorkingWife

Icantfigureherout said:


> While I sorta appreciate your thoughts, there’s so many assumptions about me and my wife in your reply that it’s tough to sort through it for info that seems genuinely helpful. I’m definitely not looking to start an argument so I’m not gonna break down the whole thing. One thing though, I’ve never called by wife frigid or a cold fish or “accused” her of being low sex drive like I’m trying to insult her. She has been the one to label herself as low drive so that’s the only reason i said that(she is also on anti depressants whick I know doesn’t help). Also, I make every effort to make things about her and I’m very much devoted to being keen on what she likes but why is it not ok for a man to want their wife to occasionally treat him like she wants to be treated. It is possible for a woman to be the selfish one in a sexual relationship too. Is it wrong tha i want her to want to learn how to please me too? Also, I supported her getting the toy and a few years ago convinced her that she should try masterbating and that it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I only posted to have “someone” to say some things I’m thinking out loud to. I’m just trying to figure out how to have a sex life where we’re both fulfilled.


Here's the thing... especially if she's on ADs... it may be very hard for her to orgasm with a person compared to a sex toy. Even if she uses the sex toy with you there. I'm on ADs and post menopausal and suddenly an orgasm is as rare as a unicorn. Even if I'm alone with a toy. The problem with another person in the room for me is that I have to really concentrate to orgasm. One slight move, one sound, one anything ...even though my guy totally turns me on, and I'd much rather have sex with him than a toy, and I can't even come alone with a toy 75% of the time, but the slightest thing that distracts me, and it's over. Though I love having sex regardless, but we haven't been together 16 years...

My point is just that you being there, even if she's aroused by you, may be too distracting. And yea, it is a lot less effort alone with a toy for many.

With that said -- NO, you are NOT wrong to want her to want to please you too and make love with you. For women, it's typically more about emotional connection that orgasm anyhow. I recommend you shift your focus away from whether or not she orgasms and onto lots of "intimacy" during love making - kissing her like you mean it, telling her how beautiful and special she is, talking with her about whatever, etc. She has a toy. She can have an orgasm any time she wants (maybe). From you she needs intimacy. She can't get that from her toy.

And when the time is right, I'd ask her what's up with her selfishness in bed? But don't word it like that! Something more like "are you happy in our marriage? I feel you are not interested in my needs?" (That's still not great wording but the point you want to get across gently is that you are not satisfied with your sex life and wish she was more into pleasing you the way you are into pleasing her, and is there something missing somewhere, anywhere, in the marriage that she does not feel motivated to make you feel good?)


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## Tasorundo

Star, no one learns from your word salad. You post these big paragraphs and it makes people feel bad. That is what people get out of it.

So, you want him to learn to pleasure her without having oral sex with her. How does he do that? Because you also say to not stop having oral sex with her until he can replace her O with whatever else he is doing. So, how does he learn to do that, while not doing the other thing and be successful? It's like telling a child that has only eaten with a spoon that they have to use chopsticks, and they cannot practice, and every time they drop food they get slapped. He cannot just snap his fingers and be something else, something that even she cannot tell him she wants him to be.


Multiple times he has said he doesn't initiate. He doesn't get turned down, because he doesn't try. For all we know, she is in there masturbating fantasizing about him coming in there and taking her.

Rather than write a 3 page article about what he is doing wrong, I say he should just initiate more if he wants more sex. We have no indication that the sex is bad, but all we have is his views on it.


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## Icantfigureherout

Tasorundo said:


> Star, no one learns from your word salad. You post these big paragraphs and it makes people feel bad. That is what people get out of it.
> 
> So, you want him to learn to pleasure her without having oral sex with her. How does he do that? Because you also say to not stop having oral sex with her until he can replace her O with whatever else he is doing. So, how does he learn to do that, while not doing the other thing and be successful? It's like telling a child that has only eaten with a spoon that they have to use chopsticks, and they cannot practice, and every time they drop food they get slapped. He cannot just snap his fingers and be something else, something that even she cannot tell him she wants him to be.
> 
> 
> Multiple times he has said he doesn't initiate. He doesn't get turned down, because he doesn't try. For all we know, she is in there masturbating fantasizing about him coming in there and taking her.
> 
> Rather than write a 3 page article about what he is doing wrong, I say he should just initiate more if he wants more sex. We have no indication that the sex is bad, but all we have is his views on it.


The sex is good and she definitely doesn’t only get pleasure from oral. She is not the type to fake and it’s not hard to tell when I make her cum from vaginal intercourse. She’s actually a little self conscious about oral on her so that part is less frequent. I know she prefers to be freshly showered and feeling clean and when she is I go for it and she most certainly enjoys it. I posted a couple threads back that i think I’m realizing that the reason I was getting frustrated about her taking care of herself when I’m not home is because it’s like an extension of the issues I already have about her being selfish in bed and too lazy to try to focus on my needs. I am so focused on making her feel good but doesn’t seem like much effort is out in by her. If I were to get oral once a week as compared to my once a year, 2 minutes and then she just climbs on I might be the most pleasant person on earth.


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## mary35

Icantfigureherout said:


> To clear another thing up, I don’t really get turned down ever mostly because I rarely intitiate. When I can see her mood is off I’d int bother to try. Not that I’m mean to her that day, I just assume that today is not the day. I’m reluctant to initiate because If she’s not in the mood I don’t want her to feel obligated.


. Have you talked to her about your wants and desires concerning sex? If not then I would be willing to bet that she thinks you are getting it as often and in the way that you want
and is unaware there is a problem. Perhaps try being a little more assertive in initiating more often and in asking for what you want. A good sex life takes - both partners working at it, both learning and communicating about it, and both being both selfish and unselfish when appropriate and needed. It also takes both partners being willing to relearn, grow, adapt, compromise, as life progressions and changes require. These things I mention are typically not natural to most people, but are skills that can be developed. Many think sex is natural and should just flow freely from desires in relationships, and doesn't need work and commjnication. That's where the problem begins in many marriages.


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## EllisRedding

ConanHub said:


> I have never experienced a low drive woman. Every woman I have been with was dtf and all of them were the initiators.


This I think is where it is hard to explain or understand, if you have never been with an LD person @ConanHub . Here is a good example. My W and I are mismatched somewhat (me being the higher drive). A while ago, 5+ years ago, I was feeling a bit frisky, so I was messing around with my W, figured it would maybe give her something to look forward to later that night (It was during the day, so at that point there was no way to do anything given we have kids). She tells me she already took care of herself in the morning while I was at the gym, so she was good, but I can still start something later if I want. It wasn't said out of malice on her part, but imagine if you are trying to get your W more interested in having a sex life, you are trying to set the tone for some fun later at night, and you get a "Thanks, I am good though" response. This is the only time this ever came up, just trying to give you a little insight in what may go through someone's mind where there is a drive mismatch, and why something like this where you feel like you were essentially replaced by a toy can be demoralizing. In some respects, it is the same when you hear women talk about how their H shows little interest in having sex with them, but then has no problem getting off to porn. It is all about diverting your sexual energy away from your SO.

In terms of sexual energy, I would think (can't say for sure) that someone who is LD probably has a lot less sexual energy to give out. For myself, I could take care of myself in the morning and still be rearing to go a few hours later with zero impact. For an LD person, could they be more of a one and done, and if so, would have more potential negative implications in a relationship with there is a drive mismatch. For the OP, he stated that he is relying on his W to initiate (think he said this is about 90% of the time). If she takes care of herself beforehand, what does this do to the odds that she will initiate that day (I would guess the odds may drop significantly)? Maybe he does initiate, but b/c she took care of herself beforehand, she isn't that into it, less willing to take care of him (which, for the OP, her perceived selfishness is an issue).

OP - you seriously need to sit down, have a talk with your W and tell her exactly what you feeling, Explain exactly what you feel you are missing from your sexual relationship. Also, try shutting your brain off and initiate more. Maybe she has less incentive to take care of you b/c she feels like she has to do all the work just to get things started... Be more vocal when you are having sex about what you want done. See if you can encourage her to use her toy WITH you (of course, there is a fine line b/c you don't want to come across as scolding her for using solo). Nothing is going to change if you just sit back and don't say anything.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

In an ltr regarding sex "success", it has been summed up that for an experienced person or couple there's no mystery to sex, only fear of outcome when one talks in a serious way to their partner. 

It's all been said before, and talked to death, but every person believes and its normal to do so that their "problem" is unique, they can say or do something that HAS to work, if he/she CAN ONLY FIND the right words and/or actions.

This mistaken perception is false in multiple ways.

1. There is a definite combination that WILL WORK. 

But there's a very real possibility nothing whatsoever will work.

2. That it's a definite that there is a solution (as in all problems must have an answer) IF ONLY you work hard enough/are smart enough/it's all your fault and responsibility to find in.

This puts all, a tremendous pressure cooker, if unrealistic sole responsibility solely on you.

Not all problems have solutions, or outcomes you want, or solutions you can see coming. 

And it's never, never a sole responsibility of just one SO in a relationship. 

That's a false belief in the real world. 

3. You'll never find "THE answer", speak it or do it, and all problems will be solved. So all this pressure on one's self to find the answer is to no avail, and prevents one from keeping the big picture in a more real focus.

So, no mystery in a mutually happy sex life, but truly only the fear of getting an undesirable outcome - it's more important to get that fear addressed in your mind so you can move forward on a firm, mentally settled foundation. 

See, when each person tries to have the "talk" the person tends to be mostly a sales person while stating what the challenges are and that takes away from clear communications and hurts their "listening ear" because they want the other to respond as desired.

The other SO may not be receptive so the "selling" of your ideas increases in pressure and volume, cutting off your SO.

Address your fears. Listen when having the talk. Know it's possible yes likely you'll hear something you didn't think about.

And the whole thing is a process. Quick, slow, in between, known and unknown outcomes. 

Be prepared for possible outcomes, seen and unforeseen, and if an answer is possible it will come out together. 

You need to lead when you desire but good/bad, it takes two to tango.

No fear.


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## Buddy400

Icantfigureherout said:


> To clear another thing up, I don’t really get turned down ever mostly because I rarely intitiate. When I can see her mood is off I’d int bother to try. Not that I’m mean to her that day, I just assume that today is not the day. I’m reluctant to initiate because If she’s not in the mood I don’t want her to feel obligated.


Many times a woman's sexual desire is driven by her husband's desire for her. So, it may well be that your lack of initiating makes her think you desire her less, reducing her desire.

In today's atmosphere of "women shouldn't have sex if they don't want to", "don't pressure women for unwanted sex". "don't make unwanted advances on women", "men only care about getting off", etc., etc., it seems as if the proper play would be to do what you're doing. Sit back and wait until conditions are perfect and it's absolutely certain that she's in the mood and will say yes.

The rules apply to women you're not in a relationship with. Apparently, the rules change completely in a marriage or LTR.

It may seem like a good idea to only have sex when your wife initiates, but that isn't necessarily how she'd prefer it to go and you it's not really fair to sit back and expect her to initiate even more (especially if she may not be "feeling it" all the time.

In an ideal female world, husband's would initiate constantly and women would turn them down as often as they pleased with the husband somehow not feeling rejected. It's a tricky balance.

To wrap up, if you want better and hotter sex, you need to step up and be willing strongly state your desires and risk facing rejection.

Whether or not it's worth the price is up to you.


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## Icantfigureherout

Buddy400 said:


> Icantfigureherout said:
> 
> 
> 
> To clear another thing up, I don’t really get turned down ever mostly because I rarely intitiate. When I can see her mood is off I’d int bother to try. Not that I’m mean to her that day, I just assume that today is not the day. I’m reluctant to initiate because If she’s not in the mood I don’t want her to feel obligated.
> 
> 
> 
> Many times a woman's sexual desire is driven by her husband's desire for her. So, it may well be that your lack of initiating makes her think you desire her less, reducing her desire.
> 
> In today's atmosphere of "women shouldn't have sex if they don't want to", "don't pressure women for unwanted sex". "don't make unwanted advances on women", "men only care about getting off", etc., etc., it seems as if the proper play would be to do what you're doing. Sit back and wait until conditions are perfect and it's absolutely certain that she's in the mood and will say yes.
> 
> The rules apply to women you're not in a relationship with. Apparently, the rules change completely in a marriage or LTR.
> 
> It may seem like a good idea to only have sex when your wife initiates, but that isn't necessarily how she'd prefer it to go and you it's not really fair to sit back and expect her to initiate even more (especially if she may not be "feeling it" all the time.
> 
> In an ideal female world, husband's would initiate constantly and women would turn them down as often as they pleased with the husband somehow not feeling rejected. It's a tricky balance.
> 
> To wrap up, if you want better and hotter sex, you need to step up and be willing strongly state your desires and risk facing rejection.
> 
> Whether or not it's worth the price is up to you.
Click to expand...

My wife without a doubt knows that I’m ready to go at any moment. It’s hard to talk to her about it though because no matter how gently I try to bring it up she gets very defensive and I dont think I’ve ever been able to get to the point of stating that I think she’s being selfish and neglecting me. I suppose I can start by trying to initiate more. I really want to make this better


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## jlg07

"It’s hard to talk to her about it though because no matter how gently I try to bring it up she gets very defensive and I dont think I’ve ever been able to get to the point of stating that I think she’s being selfish and neglecting me"

THIS you have to stop doing -- when she gets defensive, STOP her right away and tell her "I'm not trying to accuse here -- I REALLY want to work on this and I want you to be truthful with me. We need to work on this together". YOU saying she's being selfish/neglecting -- do you wonder WHY she gets defensive? STOP that right away. Keep talking and try to get past that instant "defense". Keep telling her that you love her and want to work towards a solution that works for both of you. Also, you want to know HER thinking and what's going on in her head -- right now, that seems the most important thing you need to find out.


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## StillSearching

I love sex, but I'd never buy or have my wife use a toy. 
It tends to loosen things up and crate a bit of a dependency that makes getting her off more difficult.
Just from my experience. 
I'd make that thing disappear....


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## Buddy400

Icantfigureherout said:


> My wife without a doubt knows that I’m ready to go at any moment. It’s hard to talk to her about it though because no matter how gently I try to bring it up she gets very defensive and I dont think I’ve ever been able to get to the point of stating that I think she’s being selfish and neglecting me. I suppose I can start by trying to initiate more. I really want to make this better


I KNOW it seems reasonable that, since YOU are always ready to go and your wife knows this, that she should just let you know when she wants to have sex.

But, it doesn't work that way. Especially if she doesn't know she wants to have sex until you do something that arouses her.

Just the way it (usually) is.

Rational thought has no role here.

Also, read about Responsive Desire in women.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Man, if one initiates during a good time to fool around, and W rejects more than once in a row, that's a problem. 

Definitely time for the one time talk.

It can be as simple as "I love you. There has to be more sex in our relationship.
This adds to the things we share to build our feelings of closeness to each other."

Or similar, short and sweet. Just must include the statement "there has to be more sex" in the share.

Don't try and sell it. It's not an option on a car you're buying, not a negotiation. 



I'm sure you're trying all other things. But one can't earn sex.


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## Ursula

Icantfigureherout said:


> The issue is that she only wants to use it alone. I’m fine with that although I’d love to be involved. I just get worried because I wish she’d want to have sex with me more frequently and it’s tough if she chooses her toy when I’m willing and able


I hate to bring this up, but her drive might be higher than she admits, or maybe she just isn't into having sex with you. When I was married and my now XH cut off sex for awhile, I tried to kill my sex drive, and turned to my toys when I needed to. It got to the point where I would rather play with the toys than be with my then husband, who quite honestly made me feel ill to have sex with. It also probably had to do with the way I got treated within the marriage though. Do you treat your wife well? How much time do you guys spend together (quality time, not time in front of your phones or the TV)? Do you contribute around the house/yard, or does all of that fall into her hands? Do you both work outside of the home?


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## farsidejunky

OP, read up on responsive desire. 

It sounds like BOTH of you have a touch of it.

She never says no. She enjoys it. You enjoy it.

Stop overthinking it and just...freaking...initiate.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

Also, add the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s, by Wayne Levine, to your required reading list.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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