# Am I crazy??



## JUB (Dec 16, 2015)

Hey Guys/Girls
I am new to this forum - but looking for advice.

My wife and I have been together 15 years and married 13.

I recently discovered that she has been keeping in contact with her college boyfriend the entire course of our relationship. He was her first true love and only other significant relationship before me.

The contact was purely email/facebook. It was not regular - but it was hidden from me and it was intimate/flirtatious in nature.

A few years ago my children had found pictures of them together and I asked her to remove them. Now that we were parents I felt it was time clean up old pictures, journals, and anything that could cause hurt feelings to each other or our kids in the future. We had also discussed removing ex-lovers from Facebook as it didn't seem appropriate anymore.

She agreed.

However she kept contacting him and would not remove the pictures/journals.

I recently stumbled upon one with details about their sex life that were hard to see.

She has not been in contact with him in two years (that I know of), and we have been in counseling since I found out (two months ago) I don't believe they have seen each other in person, and don't believe she cheated. But I do feel this to be some form of infidelity.

The incident has brought us closer together in many ways, and we are in a better place than we have been in years.

What I can't get past is the fact that she still won't get rid of old pictures of them together. I know that she loves me - but I feel she is leaving the door cracked open. That she can't let go of the past. I can't fully move past it and can't trust her because of it.

Am I crazy to feel that way?

Am I out of line to want photos of this person out of my house?


----------



## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

No you're not crazy. She should have enough respect for your feelings to have done away with them from the start. I see it as very disrespectful, But maybe I'm crazy too...


----------



## bluezone (Jan 7, 2012)

Well I don't think you are out of line. I found out years ago that my husband was emailing his ex girlfriend for at least 6 months when we had been married for years. I made him stop contacting her and he hasn't since. And the fact that she hid it from you makes it more troubling. The fact she was flirting with him and the fact that it has been the entire time of your relationship together etc. is not good. She is married to you...she doesn't need to start up... or should I say "continue" a friendship with him.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Nope, you are not crazy it is an emotional affair. Over 15 years, you better assume the worst. You aren't crazy, we have many threads with ex boyfriends, ex girlfriends, hidden mementos and broken marriages. It is bothering you because, in your heart and mind, you can't reconcile 15 years of deception with the sex acts you read and a faithful spouse.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

JUB,

Given that she has kept this emotional affair going on for virtually the entire length of your dating and then married life, it's really like your marriage only started after contact ended two years ago. 

A few things you need to do.

1) Polygraph for your W, she likely had phone/internet sex with him and this is physical cheating, this needs to come out. She will continue to lie to you for the rest of your life and you will not trust her ever again if she does not come clean now. It's also very likely given the span of time this went on that they met in person and had sex.

2) Gather up your evidence and expose this to the girl friend or wife of the OM. Also to the OMs family and etc. Do not warn or threaten expose widely, completely and swiftly. Exposure needs to be done before the OM can try to spin a story.

3) Your W has to commit to no longer carrying on a secret second life, you need to have access to her means of communication. 

4) Confront the OM.

5) Everything from the OM needs to be destroyed.

Tamat


----------



## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Welcome to my life for the last 10 years! My husband has ALWAYS kept in contact with his ex-girlfriend (first love as well) and it has truly destroyed my sense of trust and security. 

Demand all contact stops, all pictures get thrown away. It's either him or you. Period.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

JUB,

To answer your question "am I crazy". No you are not crazy, however a spouse that keeps an affair going on while married to you will "make you crazy"

Your spouse will also try to convince you that nothing is or has been going on this is called gaslighting which I suspect your wife may be trying to do to you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

Tamat


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

No you are not crazy my friend.

Your wife lied to you over and over again. Basically she lied every single day of your Marriage.

Maybe she loves you like you said but she have no respect for you at all. 
You even told her to get rid of pictures,gifts and what else but she decided not to.

If you want to save your Marriage and make it stronger tell her to NO CONTACT this man ever again. Not tomorrow,not in 5 years and not in 100 years. She burns,throws everything that reminds her of him and she have to to put her focus to you and your children. 

Let her know it is you and children or this OM. No more arguing and questions. Simple as that.

You said they didnt contact each other for 2 years. It is a lie my friend trust me.

One thing you HAVE TO DO is to expose this to your family and close friends. 
Try to contact OM wife and let her know about this Affair.

Stay strong.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There's a crazy person in your marriage.

But it's not you.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

How would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot?

The nickname for Facebook is Fvckbook. She's staying in contact for a reason. Which in no way can be good. An EA can suck the life out of a marriage. I'd be looking closer at the activity, etc.

You don't want to wake up to a big uh oh!!!!!


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

JUB,

Crazy... NOPE!

Your wife has been lying to you for 15 years. She is a cheater, period. I'm sure you have already heard the... "Nothing physical ever happened... I swear!". I sure she thinks that really makes it "All Better Now". 

Words of Caution. Just because it appears to be a Texting, Emailing, FB affair doesn't mean in the last 15 years they haven't seen each other... very likely. Trust me on this one, if they met each other in private... there was physical contact.


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Please, Please, Please do not be fooled into thinking they didn't meet.. My Ex wife met the other man at the mall, grocery shopping, stopping for a few minutes to hang with him in the car after work, while my son was at religious instruction for his communion.. Had friends and co-workers cover for her to go out with him.. 

Please don't be fooled.. I will tell you, expect the WORST and hope for the best.. 

There is nothing to rationalize here.. This isn't normal behavior..

The only thing I can think of is to turn the tables on her as was mentioned.. But I wouldn't waste my time on that bullsh!t.. Come straight and correct and don't wavier. 

What does the therapist say after 2 months ?


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

When you say it's brought you closer together...more like you've gone into overdrive, showering her with affection, being more attentive? Why would she throw away ex boyfriends pics when you're doing the pick me dance with her.

You're going to have this hanging over your head, the minute you stop giving her the attention she thinks she deserves, all she has to do is go a little silent, you think she's started up talking to fella and boom, you're competing again.


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

If it's innocent, why hide it?


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You don't want him in your marriage. She won't comply so the reality is she's picking him over you.

You are to weak to address it. Your marriage will always be a sham. She is in total control and she's knows she owns you so she does what you want.

How's that working for you?


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

JUB said:


> The contact was purely email/facebook. It was not regular - but it was hidden from me and it was intimate/flirtatious in nature.


 She had successfully kept this a secret from you for you entire marriage until just recently. Why do you think that you now know of every time that they contacted each other and each method of contact used, when in fact all that you know about is what you found out on your own? Cheaters often admit to only what you already know of, but that does not mean that you know of everything that has really happened between them. The reality is that 99% of the time, there is more that you will never know about unless they tell you. 



JUB said:


> I don't believe they have seen each other in person, and don't believe she cheated. But I do feel this to be some form of infidelity.


 If they did in fact not see each other (by no means a certainty), then what you described is an emotional affair (EA). An EA is a form of infidelity and it is clearly cheating. If your marriage counselor (MC) has not made this clear to both you and your wife, you need to get a different MC immediately. 



JUB said:


> The incident has brought us closer together in many ways, and we are in a better place than we have been in years.


 If she has not removed the photos, volunteered many new facts about the EA that you did not already known about (they always know more about the affair than you know), and still lies to you in any way about the EA (a lie by omission is a lie), then it has not really brought you "closer together". The better place that you think that you are in is her managing the situation until things cool down. The only one in a better place is your cheating wife as she has you now doing the pick me monkey dance.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm so sorry that your wife has been lying and having an affair for your entire marriage. She has diverted precious time, energy and emotion to the OM that were rightfully yours and your children's.  

If she refuses to get rid of the photos, and everything having to do with him, then you have your answer. She needs an ultimatum, and you have to stand by it: get rid of him and everything having to do with him PERMANENTLY, or lose you.

She should feel lucky you are still with her. She is what is called a "cake eater." She wants you and him. Don't let her choose. You decide if you want to be Mr. #2. 

When people get married, friends of the opposite sex, especially if they were romantic friends, need to go bye-bye for good.


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

This is so jacked up. The marriage has been a lie the whole time. If you think that she didn't get together with him MANY times over the years, you're in for a world of hurt when it all comes out. WWs always minimize and trickle truth. She hasn't left you because he's not available and she doesn't want to be a single mom. 

I agree with @BobSimmons that the reason things appear better is because you're trying harder and she's responding to that but obviously not enough to cut all emotional ties.

You need to gather info. Don't rely on her giving you everything. Access her phone, email, and social media. Look for a burner phone. Get a VAR in her car and in room that she sneaks off to talk in. Gather the evidence share it with the other betrayed spouse. Don't warn anyone that you're doing it. Just wreck this fvckers world. He'll be to busy dealing with his wife's wrath to spend time pursuing your wife. Be watchful of her reaction. If she complains it means they're still in contact and is more concerned with protecting POS than in protecting marriage and family.

You should also expose to her family and friends. Not in a spiteful way but in help me fight for the marriage and family way. Besides she should face some shame for betraying her family all these years. It's in their interest to talk some sense into her. They don't want a single mom dropped in their lap. 

Finally, like others have stated, you need to drop the gauntlet. Either EVERYTHING related to POS is destroyed and no verifiable contact is EVER made or you're out. If you don't do it, she will lose further respect for you and be in POS bed before you know it.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

JUB said:


> Hey Guys/Girls
> I am new to this forum - but looking for advice.
> 
> My wife and I have been together 15 years and married 13.
> ...


You're not crazy. Sorry, but this is BEYOND inappropriate. If it were just pictures WITHOUT all of the in-depth conversations, reminiscing about their sex, etc, then I could almost see hanging onto SOME of them, but all of it coupled together? No way, no how.

Draw your line in the sand and make your dealbreakers known -- tell her to get rid of any and all pics and correspondence w/ any and all past lovers (ESPECIALLY this d**chebag), lest any pics of the two of you, along w/ any letters, cards, etc that you've swapped wind up in that very same collection.

And I don't mean thrown away... *I MEAN BURNED.*


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> if it's innocent, why hide it?


Eggs Zachary!!!


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I agree with most of the posters.

Personally I would demand that she gets rid of everything about him, now. And if there is any contact ever then there is the door.

I could go through a list of things that would have me packing her bags. 

I am willing to wager that they met up during your marriage and did the deed. Unless you can account for her time the entire marriage I will say with 100% certainty that they met. And if they met they had sex. I would bet my entire military pension on that.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

You need to go full James Bond. Read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html and do what it says.


----------



## Imovedforthis (Dec 18, 2015)

Wow, that's a LONG time to be in contact with an ex.... especially if there are no children involved. 

So on the pictures thing, I can somewhat understand keeping them... but only if they had kids. I have kept all my ex husbands pics and they are stored in a box for my oldest daughter to have when she gets her own place. I don't keep them to look at or anything. They are there simply for our daughter. 

BUT keeping in contact and messaging on facebook is where she is crossing the line. SOOO many boundaries being crossed there. One- you were never aware of this, so it's been a "secret" from you. two- she's being intimate with him and talking sexually.... WAY crossing boundaries and this would be the form of an emotional affair. 

Honestly, I would have chunked the pics myself lol but seriously, the pics are NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Your wife talking this man on fb IS THE PROBLEM. She needs to end her relationship with him. Out of respect for you and your marriage. 

I'm new here, so best of luck....


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Imovedforthis said:


> Honestly, I would have chunked the pics myself lol but seriously, the pics are NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Your wife talking this man on fb IS THE PROBLEM. She needs to end her relationship with him.


That's what I did, my wife kept pictures in a scrap book of the first guy she slept with. Pissed me off for years (she never contacted him for as long as we have been married). One day, after a few too many vodkas, I though about the pictures and got real pissed off ... sooooo .... I went to the closet, found the scrap book from her teens where the pictures were and .... the pictures found their way to the paper shredder. This was, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago. Haven't heard a thing from her which means she never looks at it. One day she will look and I don't know what will happen. She knew from when we first got married that I hated that she kept the pictures, so she will guess it was me who got rid of them.

She had another ex boy friend who contacted her via e-mail a few years ago, I stopped that contact by blocking her ability to send and receive e-mails to his e-mail address from our ISP. That action got me in hot water .... she found out about that stunt real fast ... but that's a whole other story.


----------



## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> There's a crazy person in your marriage.
> 
> But it's not you.


Crazy is a strong word thrown around too much when emotional. Selfish is more apt. And far too common.

Cheers,
V(13)
Selfish, at times. I'm working on it.


----------



## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> How would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot?
> 
> The nickname for Facebook is Fvckbook. She's staying in contact for a reason. Which in no way can be good. An EA can suck the life out of a marriage. I'd be looking closer at the activity, etc.
> 
> You don't want to wake up to a big uh oh!!!!!


Fvckbook is Evil.

>

Don't do Fvckbook.

This is your brain 0 This is your brain on Fvckbook :surprise::frown2::|:crying:

Any questions?


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

So JUB what are you going to do?

You are obviously not crazy.

I think your wife's continued flirtations are disrespectful to you and the marriage.

While I may not burn "their" memories I certainly would insist on two things.

1. That she stops all communication if they cannot act like mature, married adults that are not married to each other.

2. You both collect their photos or other memorabilia from their past relationship and put it in a box where it belongs. Not to be burned but to be "shelved" just like their relationship should have been when she committed "herself" to you and your family.

Good Luck,

HM


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed how do you think your wife would be feeling?


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

She obviously has more to do with him than you (otherwise he would have been a fond memory years ago).

Why do you stay?

You can't force someone to change - you can only control what you allow.

Let her know that since she can't give him up, you will let her be free of you so she can pursue him with out the nasty issues of being married to you.


----------



## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

I was talking to my Mum this week & she told me something that broke my heart. She thought she'd already told me....

My grandparents were married for over 60 years. My grandad was WONDERFUL! We were very, very close. He died a couple of years before my grandmother. I would never describe their marriage as great. She was a very bitter lady who liked to share the pain. My Mum had a horrible childhood.

Anyway....my grandmother was in hospital for about a week before she died. The whole time she had an old photograph of her first boyfriend in her hand or next to her bed! 

That's just so sad! 60 years!!

Imagine if they'd lived in the age of Facebook & emails? I wonder if my grandad knew that she treasured that little photograph & everything that it represented?!? 60 years & he never experienced true love, ONE love. 60 years of yearning for a man who was essentially a complete stranger....

Life is making me so very sad lately. 

I've always said that my Dad was the happiest, most joyful, content person I've ever known. He had this beautiful gift of seeing the world through rose tinted glasses. A true romantic. He had a horrific childhood but to hear his telling it was wonderful & he had the most wonderful mother in the world.

I've always been told how much I take after my Dad. I agree I'm very prone to fantasy. The glass isn't just half full, it's in the process of being filled to overflowing with the yummiest stuff ever!!!

One of the most tragic (among many) aspects of my brothers suicide was my Dad found his body. He tried to wake him. Held him like a baby unable to accept what was happening. He's never been the same since. The joy died in him. He couldn't protect his son, he couldn't put it right. He couldn't be Dad anymore. As time passes the sparkle isn't returning.

I fear I've also been broken. People call it 'Real Life'. I don't want reality!!! I just want my happy little fantasy family back.

I've rambled! I wanted to say that as loving husbands & wives don't we deserve to have OUR photograph held in their last moments? Don't we all deserve to be 'The One' to someone?


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Heatherknows said:


> Fvckbook is Evil.
> 
> >
> 
> ...


I don't know, can't blame the tools, it's a person's character that is the problem.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JUB, how are you doing?

What does your marriage counselor say about all this? Some counselors are good and some very bad at processing infidelity. What does yours say?

What do you mean when you say you're closer now? More sex, better sex? Good deep conversations? How does she react in these conversations? Does she express any reaction to how you've been hurt by all this?

I think quite a few of us here have been through something similar and can give you some specific action items to deal with what's going on, and to help you find your way to resolution one way or another. But we need your participation!

I would not jump to the conclusion she has had a physical affair with this guy, but I wouldn't rule it out, either. It is unknown. I think you need to put on your list some form of verification. Maybe not yet if you don't feel ready for it, but I think you need to really confront her hard about it, and consider a polygraph. I also think you need to establish surveillance to ensure she has cut off all contact. Some of this she should know about and be on board with (cheerfully!). She should give you all passwords to all accounts and all devices of hers. You get to look at anything at any moment. You should also install a keylogger on the computer she uses so that you can verify she is not doing anything secretly. You'll know if she has any secret email or social media accounts. You'll know if she uses any kind of instant chatting within any programs. You should research putting something similar on her cell phone, though cell phones are trickier to spy on without detection.

You should ask for a complete data dump from her Facebook. FB has a way to get a complete archive of everything she's done on it. You may not even want to read it, but you should still insist she give it to you. She cheated on you, and part of recovery is for her to fully reveal everything she did. You can't forgive her and heal from her betrayal until you know the full scope of what she did. She can't feel the full weight of what she did as long as she is still hiding information or avoiding feeling the shame or embarrassment of you knowing all.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JUB said:


> A few years ago my children had found pictures of them together and I asked her to remove them.
> 
> She agreed.
> 
> ...


Journals too? :frown2:

Ok, you're trying to figure out if you're the one who isn't being thoughtful. It isn't a black and white situation when it comes to our spouse's old photos etc.

My wife has a photo of her and her boyfriend at her senior prom. And I know what they did after the prom, which of course doesn't make me feel all wonderful. But the picture is in a box in a closet, and she probably doesn't even remember it is there. She had nothing good to say about this boyfriend, not even once, since we met. So the prom is one of those memories for her but there is certainly no unfinished business or any reason for me to hate the picture being there.

That is a normal situation.

Your situation is completely different. Burn the pictures and journals.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Sorry, but she is still in love with the XBF or the fantasy of the XBF. Real or fantasy does not matter as he still holds a special feeling in her heart and she still can not let the memory of him go.

You are the one she settled for.

You need to understand what place you occupy in her mind (obviously second place behind the XBF) and make your decision accordingly.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Be strong. Give her some real consequences, such as divorce papers. This is a big deal and your response should show it. If you don't blow this out of the water, you will get no respect from her, or yourself. This is something that you should see as worth risking your marriage over..... She's risking it with you, huh? Be willing to go your own way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> You don't want him in your marriage. She won't comply so the reality is she's picking him over you.
> 
> You are to weak to address it. Your marriage will always be a sham. She is in total control and she's knows she owns you so she does what you want.
> 
> How's that working for you?


No mercy from Marc878. Nope, nadda, squat.

Listen to these folks.


----------



## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Sorry 15 years of secret correspondence and you think they havent met up.

Yeah right.

She has already cheated. At the very least emotionally.


----------

