# Truly painful



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

First, I want to say that I'm not looking for sympathy but would like input on what I can say/do to help when this happens.

I had a break in meetings yesterday and invited my BH to have lunch together (no baby so just us) and spend a little time together. 

As it often does, the topic of our damaged marriage and my EA come up. He talked about how he just feels like this was an example to him why he can't trust anyone and that trusting someone, even me, just leads to hurt and pain.

Background for him, he grew up with a very physically abusive mother (his dad died when he was only 4 years old), went into Spec Ops in the Army so shutting down emotionally is something he's very good at doing.

I apologized again and told him I'll continue to do what I can to help rebuild that. I was even able to get clearance to remove any of the confidential work applications from my phone so he can access my work phone now as well. He has access to email/FB/etc.

What else can I do to help him?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Except this consequence and push forward with your resolve in the belief that time heals all wounds.

You got one thing going for you and that is he excepted the offer for lunch, some former waywards don't even get that. So on the bright side your glass is half full.


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## Crushed-in-side (Nov 8, 2012)

I don't have the answers for you as I am on the other side right now. I do want to say that it is good that you are trying to work on the relationship and admit what you did wrong, rather than the alternative. I hope my spouse does as well and is as willing to work on it as you are.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> He talked about how he just feels like *this was an example to him why he can't trust anyone* and that trusting someone, even me, just leads to hurt and pain.


I didn't understand this part. 
Did he mean you being available for lunch? If so, how was than an example. 

I've read your posts and you seem to be doing all that's possible. Have you asked him what he'd like to see you do to demonstrate remorse?


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## Crushed-in-side (Nov 8, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> I didn't understand this part.
> Did he mean you being available for lunch? If so, how was than an example.


I believe that she meant, that he meant that the EA was why he can't trust anyone.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I know my wife calls me all the time...before work, breaks, lunch, and on her way home....there real short "just thinking of you" kind of thing.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> I didn't understand this part.
> Did he mean you being available for lunch? If so, how was than an example.
> 
> I've read your posts and you seem to be doing all that's possible. Have you asked him what he'd like to see you do to demonstrate remorse?


He was happy to meet me for lunch and it was going well until the topic of our marriage came up (he brought it up). 

The 'this' I'm referring to is my EA and how I lied to him and kept secrets. 

We have our next MC appointment, I think I'm going to bring this conversation up during that to see if we can get some solid direction. I know he's hurting and it feels hypocritical to try to soothe him when I'm the cause.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

TCSR, does he see that you are trying, reaching out?...my wife has of late, and I didnt even notice it, I was just worrying about me and not seeing she was reaching out and trying her best, I have been PMing with another poster about this and they pointed it out to me... right in front of my face and I just couldnt see her efforts.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

He says he sees it and appreciates that I'm trying. I know it will take time. I guess I just have to keep trying and hope for healing.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Red,

I was the bh in a 23 year marriage. She had a PA with a co-worker for several months, and at least and EA with my former best friend from childhood.

I wish my ex would have had half the courage and remorse that you do. The silver lining is I am now happily re-married to a wonderful woman that I adore, and I she shows me that she feels the same way about me.

You only can control yourself. He needs time. I think if you listen, avoid the blameshifting, be sensitive to triggers, and allow him to choose what he wants it will help.

You are in the same boat as the rest of us, we don't have any guarantees, and our marriages might crash. None of us can control our spouse, whether they are the betrayed or the disloyal one. Maybe that is the life lesson for you. It has been the lesson I had to learn too.

If he is damaged beyond repair, support his decision to move on. A fresh start is not the end of the world for either of you. Just try to show that you learned that hurting others is not what you want to do. 

A good ex is sometimes a bigger blessing than a bad spouse.

Bless you for trying! You are an exeception to the disloyal crowd!!!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

He is expressing a lifetime of cause and effect experiences where everyone he trusted ended up hurting him. He may have thought that you were the exception to the rule and then you had the EA that proved to him there are no exceptions.

He is not just dealing with your EA, he is dealing with a lifetime of betrayals and hurt that the EA brought back to him. 

For him, you just joined the long list of people who betrayed his trust until he concluded that unconditional trust equals getting betrayed and pain. The sad part is that, for him, he is right.

He will eventually learn to trust you again up to a point. But it is going to take years of you proving to him that you love him and deserve his trust for him to be comfortable again.

Keep working on it. And remember it is not just your EA that he has to come to terms with.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> ...and it feels hypocritical to try to soothe him when I'm the cause.


So if you had (god forbid) sliced his arm with a knife you would feel hypocritical in attending to the wound. NO you wouldn't 

Don't feel this way. You're doing things right. Completely right!

Props - as my teen says!


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

Hey Red,

So as a BS (wife had a 4-month PA I discovered and our D-Day was just over a year ago) I have to say I get where your husband is coming from. My wife and I have been working really hard over the last year on reconciling. And making a lot of really good progress. 

But even in the MUCH better place I am a year later, I am confident that I am forever changed. I will never trust the same again. He's right. After you go through a betrayal like this, it forces you to reevaluate your entire approach to relationships. I know that I will always hold back that last little piece of myself, out of self-preservation as much as anything.

But don't think about trust as an on and off switch. Think of it like a dimmer switch - it's not all or nothing, it's a sliding scale. Over time your husband's ability to trust in you (and others) will get brighter. But it will likely never go as high as it did before the affair. The dial will never turn all the way to right again. It's just human nature. 

We shape our definition of reality, our thinking and our behavior based on our past experiences. He now has a past experience that says trusting can lead to a bad/painful outcome. And the more recent an experience, the more influence it has on our current behavior and thinking. 

Over time, and with the type of work you have been embracing, you can help to push that betrayal experience further down the list. It can become the one outlying experience that is older and less relevant than many of the new trustworthy experiences. 

Don't give up. Give it time. Give it space. Trust will slowly begin to come back, just don't expect it get all the way back to the level before the affair.

Always enjoy your posts, I think you're doing a great job. Keep it up!


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

I am in a similar position and don't really have any extra advice to offer, though I too want any suggestions that are out there. 

All I can say is keep doing what you're doing: inviting him to lunch, contacting him throughout the day, listening to him when he needs to vent. I am hoping in my own marriage that the consistency will be appreciated over time, and my husband will see that I am faithful and committed. 

One new thing that DD and I have started using is video chat on our phones. He hasn't said this helps him, but I know he likes it, and I do too. It's fun to see him during the day, and when he called yesterday morning, he got to chat with the kids for a few minutes as well. I also think it might help when he's feeling anxious, since he can call and see where I'm at/if anyone is with me/what I'm doing right at that time.

Hang in there, red, and I will too.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Why did he bring it up. any particular reason?


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## Crushed-in-side (Nov 8, 2012)

I know how your BH feels. I also have a trust noone mentality (also ex-military, if that has any connection??). I have been cheated on and lied to in before and it is really hard to gain my trust now. I trusted my wife with everything and will see what happens over the weekend. I certainly understand where he is.

Just keep doing what you are doing, it sounds like you want it to work out. Time.....lots of time.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

All you can do is keep coming back. Keep being open, honest and willing to talk about it. Don't get discouraged when he tells you things like that, don't get defensive. He has to get all of those words and thoughts out of his head in order to make space for trust to try to move back in. Just keep making it as easy as you can for him to tell you what he feels. He's not doing it to punish you, he's just trying to work through it, all you can do is try to help him and not get frustrated when he doesn't make progress as quickly as you might like.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

You had an EA on a man in the Spec Ops? Besides the fact I am EXTREMELY angry at wives that cheat on military men, I am surprised your AP isn't dead. 

Now, I don't know the whole story. But I assume you are doing exactly what all the WS and BS tell you. Give him you passwords, your phone, be on lock down. 

But tell me, what does this man get by trusting you with his heart again?
You already dropped it once and shattered it. 
Why should he give it back to you? What would he gain from that? 

Sounds like this guy's go to mind set is indifference. And once the BS hits indifference, the marriage is pretty much dead. But since that is his go to mindset, we don't really know how well he is coping. He may be dieing on the inside. 

I think I see the problem. 
This is a man loves that which will hurt him. 
His mother was abusive. 
His wife cheated. 
And his job is dangerous. 

And I see the distinct difference between the two of you. 

He wants to ignore. That is why he shuts down emotionally. Shut down, ignore, forget. It is all just an unhappy memory. 

You want him to heal. You want him to confront it, deal with it, get over it in the best manner he can, so you two can be a loving couple...

See the difference?
As for how to deal with it...no idea. Until the guy can open up, you can't really help him heal. ANd who knows how long that will take.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Broken at 20 said:


> You had an EA on a man in the Spec Ops? Besides the fact I am EXTREMELY angry at wives that cheat on military men, I am surprised your AP isn't dead.
> 
> Now, I don't know the whole story. But I assume you are doing exactly what all the WS and BS tell you. Give him you passwords, your phone, be on lock down.
> 
> ...


Here is an answer for her which hopefully will satisfy him:

He gets a woman who has had a PAINFUL lesson in what the lack of boundaries brings. He gets a woman who is working 100% at affair proofing her marriage. He gets a wife who won't be alone with another man EVER!

Will a new woman undesrstand this? Will she pooh pooh his worries and think she can handle whatever? Because sometimes they can't.

Best I got.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

When you get a chance read (if you haven't already) "devistated Dad"'s thread. He is the BH of "changing me" 

She's doing things right as are you. Keep faith.


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

I've thought about trust in a relationship often. I don't think trust comes from an external source like a person or thing but from inside the person doing the trusting. An outsider can only destroy trust.

Your husband can rebuild his trust in you by first being able to anticipate your responses correctly as appropriate ones and then judge unexpected actions as right and proper upon analysis.

I hope this makes sense.


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> When you get a chance read (if you haven't already) "devistated Dad"'s thread. He is the BH of "changing me"
> 
> She's doing things right as are you. Keep faith.


Thank you for this. I really appreciate the acknowledgement.



I thought of something else, red. I have been reading this book: I Love You But I Don't Trust You: The Complete Guide to Restoring Trust in Your Relationship: Mira Kirshenbaum: 9780425245316: Amazon.com: Books DD is not a reader, but if your husband is, I would see if he'd be willing to read it. It's an easy read; the author writes in a really casual style that annoys me a bit, but her concepts are good. As the WS reading it, it has helped me to see that a lot of DD's reactions and behaviors are quite normal for a BS. It's also provided a lot of explanation in things that I have found helpful (for example, the reasoning behind him re-explaining things to me that he's said several times before, etc.), as well as some new idea on things that i can do to show that I can be trustworthy.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Stonewall said:


> Why did he bring it up. any particular reason?


The topic of my EA tends to come up when we're having a good day. While I'm not a shrink, my bet is that is when he starts feeling vulnerable and he's reminding himself to be cautious. 

[email protected], I know you come from a pretty hard background and I'm not asking for him to just forgive, forget and move on. I realize what I've done wrong and am actively working to fix it. We have a 4 month old son at home whom we adore and want more than anything to raise together in a healthy marriage if that's possible. We didn't get to this point in a month, my expectation definitely isn't to fix it in a month.

His first reaction WAS to find him and remove him. I'm grateful my AP was not in our state and that wasn't immediately possible as the outcome for my husband would have been terrible in the long run. 

He's definitely NOT indifferent though. Any time I've mentioned filing for separation (when things were the worst), he's insistent he doesn't want that and wants to work things through and stay together. 

Hopefully, staying the course he'll see that it's behind and won't happen again and learn to begin to trust again. If not for us, at least to start to heal for his own future.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Tell him he's right. You did betray his trust. Acknowledge that he may never be able to trust you completely. Tell him you're sorry you did that to him.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Stonewall said:


> Why did he bring it up. any particular reason?


Cuz Red tore his heart out and left it on the floor, now Red has it in her hands and is trying to put it back were it once was.

Sorry Red for the bluntness, just trying to give Stonewall an idea of how painful this crap is and how difficult it is to repair.

But it is repairable! Forgiveable...yes, forgetable..no!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

ChangingMe said:


> Thank you for this. I really appreciate the acknowledgement.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought of something else, red. I have been reading this book: I Love You But I Don't Trust You: The Complete Guide to Restoring Trust in Your Relationship: Mira Kirshenbaum: 9780425245316: Amazon.com: Books DD is not a reader, but if your husband is, I would see if he'd be willing to read it. It's an easy read; the author writes in a really casual style that annoys me a bit, but her concepts are good. As the WS reading it, it has helped me to see that a lot of DD's reactions and behaviors are quite normal for a BS. It's also provided a lot of explanation in things that I have found helpful (for example, the reasoning behind him re-explaining things to me that he's said several times before, etc.), as well as some new idea on things that i can do to show that I can be trustworthy.


Helping others is atonement to your community.

You too red!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lost language

When you can - when you two are in private - and he is feeling tense, angry, combative and/or anxious: 
- Say as little as possible, talking does not help much with this 
- Touch, hold his hand, rub his back, hug him

This shouldn't be explicitly sexual. It is meant to be a touch based message of commitment and reassurance. I guess if it turns into a sexual thing naturally that is fine. 

If you need to talk - tell him you now understand the difference between love and commitment. Commitment is what holds you together in between the peaks of love. 

It is ok if you did this EA thing "just because". It is not ok if you did it due to a major weakness in your marriage that your H still does not understand. If you want/need something from him, you HAVE to tell him. 




TCSRedhead said:


> The topic of my EA tends to come up when we're having a good day. While I'm not a shrink, my bet is that is when he starts feeling vulnerable and he's reminding himself to be cautious.
> 
> [email protected], I know you come from a pretty hard background and I'm not asking for him to just forgive, forget and move on. I realize what I've done wrong and am actively working to fix it. We have a 4 month old son at home whom we adore and want more than anything to raise together in a healthy marriage if that's possible. We didn't get to this point in a month, my expectation definitely isn't to fix it in a month.
> 
> ...


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Lost language
> 
> When you can - when you two are in private - and he is feeling tense, angry, combative and/or anxious:
> - Say as little as possible, talking does not help much with this
> ...


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> I wish your husband could see that you did keep your body from this man and that says a lot about who you are and how you feel for husband. If it was also a PA, then of course the pain would be longer. But here you were, you felt for another, yet you kept your physical distance. I wish my WH would have done what you did and kept his body away from other bodies.... Again, it says a lot that you did not go further.


I appreciate the thought but I'm not sure that does help to be honest. Dishonesty was dishonesty. I violated the boundaries of our marriage. I deliberately withheld information from him, communicated sexually with another man and sent pictures to him that my husband will forever have branded in his brain.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

strangely enough, though you are the one who brought on this agony, you are the only one that can relieve it as well. You are the one who caused him to hurt in a way he never believed possible. Yet, because he loves you, you can help aleviate that pain as no one else can. You are both the person he fears and the person he longs for. Its a confusing positon, and requires alot of time, attention, patience and honesty. 

You seem to be doing those things. Hang in there.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Red
Frankly I'm astounded that you were a ww. Your posts (all of them) show such levelheadedness, mature, and insightful thought.

Has this level of clarity been a recent development?

BTW I'm fairly certain that 99.99% of bH would kill to have their fww show the level of remorse you apparently show.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ya. my FWW kept her emotions away from others but gave her body away. so whats the point right.

Well my point is this crap is painful no matter how you spin it


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

walkonmars said:


> Red
> Frankly I'm astounded that you were a ww. Your posts (all of them) show such levelheadedness, mature, and insightful thought.
> 
> Has this level of clarity been a recent development?
> ...


:iagree:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Like most BS he probably has times when some panic hits him. At those times he might very well say things like he said.

Part of you helping him heal is that you listen to him, let him know that you get what he's saying. He's letting you know that he's hurting at that moment.

Hopefully over time these the feeling of panic/fear that he gets will happen less and less often.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Red
> Frankly I'm astounded that you were a ww. Your posts (all of them) show such levelheadedness, mature, and insightful thought.
> 
> Has this level of clarity been a recent development?
> ...


Thank you - I'm really trying. The clarity definitely wasn't there initially. I was classic textbook, angry at my husband for spying, taking it all underground and blaming it all on him. If he were posting here, I would have been advising him to leave and not look back. 

Initially, I gave NO access to anything. We were in the process of moving from one state to another for a promotion I'd received so it would have been easy for him to just stay behind and leave me on my own. 

It got ugly for a while, I became pregnant during the initial phase of this process which only complicated everything. 

I turned over email passwords, FB passwords, etc. Due to some of the sensitive data I had access to via my work cell, I couldn't give him access to that, but I had those connections removed (I can do that remotely via laptop as needed) and gave him that as well. 

Soooo, when I see the typical gaslighting, and stalling from a WS, I recognize the behavior. It's part of what I'm trying to do now is help others as well as remind myself of what I've done and need to do.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Red~

Couple of things, speaking as a person who was also physically abused by my mom and my first husband was unfaithful. 

As a child I learned several very screwed up "lessons" about love, because the person who was supposed to love and care for me also hurt me and scared me. For example, I learned that love and hurt go together. I learned that if I "knew the rules" I could keep from being hurt--or at least I kept trying that and when it didn't work I thought it was because I didn't know the right rules! I learned that if I was in control and knew everything that was going on, I could keep myself from being hurt. [This is actually something rape victims do too especially when they are first raped. 'If I wear a turtleneck and baggy clothes, I can prevent that from happening again.] I learned that no one was really looking out for me, so I had to do that--sort of "fend for myself." I learned that when I did depend on someone, they would hurt me. I learned that I wasn't worth very much. I learned that getting close to someone meant opening myself up to vulnerability and that vulnerability was ALWAYS used against me. I learned that any touch meant either HURT or SEX but otherwise people didn't touch me. 

Now look through that list of the messed up things I learned as a kid. It took me FOR-EV-ER to unlearn that, and I have to say that my first husband did not help me much!  He was also physically, emotionally and verbally abusive, and he cheated on me....but what I eventually learned was that I picked that kind of man because that's what I was used to, that's what I knew how to deal with, that's what I thought it should be like. I had to slowly but surely learn that love is not a feeling, but the way you treat someone on a daily basis. I can't claim to "love" you if I lie to your face and disrespect you behind your back--oh I may have some "feelings" like affection but love IS an action. 

So if you look at the list above, you'll see that in some ways you sort of reinforced some of those lessons with your hubby...and my guess is that part of him wanted to believe that THIS time would be different...that he "knew the rules" of how to be a good husband and you wouldn't hurt him. He may have thought if he had only known what was going on, he could have controlled you and kept himself from being so hurt. He may have thought that before this you would somewhat "fend for him" and now it's sad because he's thinking that, yep, he can't depend on anyone. That one you'll have to work pretty darn hard to get back!! 

Anyway, you get the drift. Some of those old "lessons" were things he was probably hoping he could put behind him...but by putting them behind him, he want to the opposite end of the spectrum and entangled himself and his value and his self definition and stuff with you. Now he feels like those unhealthy lessons were possibly correct. The thing is, those poor lessons about staying completely UNTANGLED from people are no more healthy than the lessons that ENTANGLE his meaning in life, his emotional happiness, etc. and put all that on another person. Either way, part of the sorrow now is that the old way lead to hurt...the new way lead to hurt...what is left? What he is going to have to learn, in order to be healthy, is how to go through life day by day and CHOOSE to be loving to that person every day...but NOT CHOOSE to define yourself, your self worth, your happiness, even your love on that person. 

When an affair occurs, the fact of the matter is that from that point forward, things are not the same. Now, some couples do try to sweep things under the rug and "go back the way it was" but deep down, something fundamental has changed. Ideally, both folks in the marriage have to learn to love themselves but also choose to be with their partner every day. My worth in life, my definition of who I am as a person is not tied up in my spouse--but every day I make the conscious decision to love him because it's my choice. 

Now, for your hubby, I would suggest that rather than telling him something like "That's not true! You can trust me" (which sort of invalidates his reality) I would recommend something like parroting it back to see if you got the message. When he says he can't open up to you or will never trust you, just paraphrase and say it back "So it sounds like you really feel hurt because you thought maybe we'd be different and now you're not sure if you'll ever trust again." See if that's what he meant (hey sometimes we hear something completely different than what they meant!), and if you can understand where he's coming from...say so! Like "To be honest, that sounds completely reasonable to me" or "I can sure understand where you're coming from. If I were in your shoes I'm not sure if I'd feel like I could trust either." That way, he will at least know that what he shared with you, got through to you.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Hi AC - as always, I appreciate your words of wisdom. I can totally recognize that's what he does and why. He does as well. I am fortunate that he's really trying to change that and understands that physical touch (non-sexual) is also important in parenting his son in a healthy manner.

I am wife #3 for him. His first wife was young and immature but his second wife was older than him and very emotionally abusive. So, I do feel like I really let him down in many ways by breaking that trust. I recognize (now) how precious it really was for him to give that to me and to want to try to work on this.

I definitely do not tell him it is not true he cannot trust me anymore since I know that is how he feels right now (justifiably). I do ask what I can do to help with that but right now he doesn't know. I gave him the work phone security code but he hasn't checked it. I don't know if that's a good sign or if he's just tired. 

When I gave him the personal email passwords, he spent hours and hours scouring every email I'd sent and received so this is confusing in a way. 

I'm headed home shortly to hopefully take him and the baby out to dinner. I've been sending him cute little sexy reminder texts all day so he seems pretty chipper and upbeat. Sex definitely seems to be the one thing we have going right these days.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> He was happy to meet me for lunch and it was going well until the topic of our marriage came up (he brought it up).
> 
> The 'this' I'm referring to is my EA and how I lied to him and kept secrets.
> 
> We have our next MC appointment, I think I'm going to bring this conversation up during that to see if we can get some solid direction. I know he's hurting and it feels hypocritical to try to soothe him when I'm the cause.


No. You must 'soothe' him and help him. If you don't, who can? Who will?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

When he wants to talk, talk. That would be my suggestion. My wife wouldn't do that and it made the healing unnecessarily long.

Her affair happened, I had to get to a point where I could accept that.

It helps for me that I can genuinely recognise it as an aberration in her behaviour. Not rug sweeping here, it could happen again, and I have a list of danger signs I watch for, but I know she isn't wanton, just human. And at the time of the affair there was a bigger picture. All of that comes out of figuring out what she was feeling and thinking. Hence the importance of talking.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Red
> Frankly I'm astounded that you were a ww. Your posts (all of them) show such levelheadedness, mature, and insightful thought.
> 
> Has this level of clarity been a recent development?
> ...


I agree wholeheartedly with WOM.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

the guy said:


> Cuz Red tore his heart out and left it on the floor, now Red has it in her hands and is trying to put it back were it once was.
> 
> Sorry Red for the bluntness, just trying to give Stonewall an idea of how painful this crap is and how difficult it is to repair.
> 
> But it is repairable! Forgiveable...yes, forgetable..no!



With all due respect I know all to well! I did forgive, I wish with every fiber of my being that I could forget but I dealt with it differently. 

After D day and everything that goes with it; I made a conscious decision to forgive and never brought it up again for a good 23 years. I knew that the best chance for us to make it was for me not to hang it over her head (Not saying that is his intention red). It would have been a cloud hanging over her head that would have made it harder to R. 

She was already dealing with so much guilt that I felt no desire to bludgeon her with it even though I had every right to. My concern was towards the desired outcome not vengeance.

That was 25 years ago now. And we occasionally talk about it. Its therapeutic to be able to talk to her about my feelings surrounding it but I throttle myself when I do. 

The reason I asked red is simply because I was trying to wrap my head around her situation. In other words was it due to some trigger or what.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Like most BS he probably has times when some panic hits him. At those times he might very well say things like he said.
> 
> Part of you helping him heal is that you listen to him, let him know that you get what he's saying. He's letting you know that he's hurting at that moment.
> 
> Hopefully over time these the feeling of panic/fear that he gets will happen less and less often.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

panic yes yes yes! and quiet hidden tears. Its quite embarassing for some men to cry. and some of us won't talk to others about it. Suffering in silence is very hard!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> We have our next MC appointment, I think I'm going to bring this conversation up during that to see if we can get some solid direction. I know he's hurting and it feels hypocritical to try to soothe him when I'm the cause.


Okay here's something weird. Having been abused by a parent, you get both EXTREME pain (physically and emotionally) and caring/loving from the same person. So I totally do understand why it feels hypocritical to soothe him and be the one who caused the pain...but it most likely doesn't feel that way to him at all.

AND in real life, over the longer course of life, you are his best friend. Now I do understand you were the one who hurt him, but skipping that point, you are also the one he opened up to, turned to, spoke to, shared with, laughed with, cried with, threw up with, made babies with.... you are not just his wife or his lover. You are his best friend. So what I do for my own Dear Hubby is I envision wearing different hats, and they have different roles assigned to them. My lover hat = being a naughty girl and his sexual fantasy while also romancing him and admiriing him...all walls down. My counselor hat = listen like an impartial observer with a bit of a shield up so I don't get hurt by hearing his truth. My friend hat = have fun together, be buddies, go to concerts, laugh at stuff together and let him past my walls so I feel friendship towards him and "like" him. My wife hat = manage the household, some chores and things, budgeting and paying bills, and supporting him however I can; I don't know if walls matter here cuz this hat is kind of business-like wth some aspects of compassion. Yep they are all me, but envisioning it like this helps me understand how he can ask to speak to "counselor me" and then to talk to my counselor training about me! LOL It's funny but I bet in a way your hubby does sort of a similar thing.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Red, is it possible there is some PTSD or other residue from his military experiences which could be encroaching on the EA issue? This would be very touchy to bring up to him because you don't want to in any way look like you are blame shifting or telling him he needs to just "get over it". But if there is something there which he needs to deal with, well, he needs to deal with it in order to heal from the EA.

I can tell you that though I know many people are dishonest and disloyal, the very keystone of my belief system about my wife was that she was honest and loyal. Learning the truth utterly destroyed my equilibrium. It led me to question everything. Literally. Every perception, belief, memory, and value of mine seemed unreliable. I felt like a cartoon character that just ran off of a cliff with my legs running in thin air, feeling there was nothing underneath me but not yet understanding how or why.

Your husband has been hurt by people in his past, and now he finds out you were not the person he thought you were. From what you post here it seems to me that through this experience you have become a far better person than he ever imagined you to be, but he cannot yet believe that.

I think you give him time, and you keep doing the stuff you are doing. It may be frustrating for you but if you do the right things he should make progress. A good MC should be able to advise you if hubby is on schedule for his recovery.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Red,

I felt the same way your husband feels now. I cant express the how my feelings were at that time, here.

You seem to be doing well on a smoother road to a successful R. BH feels that he cant trust you because you betrayed him. You were the only one, he trusted and you did the betrayal to him. He is inwardly crushed and so badly pained.

He will recollect the past, the events. As lovemytruck said, you need to deal with his triggers. And make him realize that he needs to address the triggers, himself as well.

He knows that you are not now cheating on him that is why he came for a lunch with you, meets you etc.

Successful, effective R depends on this. Smoothness of R depends on your remorse, heavy weightlifting, and his own ability to address the A.

Good lucks. You , no doubt, are dealing with this well. Much better than many WS.

AU


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Thor said:


> Red, is it possible there is some PTSD or other residue from his military experiences which could be encroaching on the EA issue? This would be very touchy to bring up to him because you don't want to in any way look like you are blame shifting or telling him he needs to just "get over it". But if there is something there which he needs to deal with, well, he needs to deal with it in order to heal from the EA.


There are definitely residual issues for both of us in this area. We also lost two of our best friends (best man and matron of honor from our wedding) so the person he normally would have turned to for support is gone. 

I definitely don't want to bring it to the forefront until we get past the initial problem threatening our marriage at this point. However, we are both committed that we don't want to go back to what our marriage was prior to the EA. It has to be a good relationship where both of our needs are met.


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