# Dealing with depression need some encouragement and patience



## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Some of you probably read my tirade from a week or two ago where I was digging to uncover the root cause of the issue in our marriage.

So now we're on the road to reconciliation via counseling (or at least I hope). However, I'm struggling today with just the amount of time it is taking. I want my wife so bad, and she will only treat me like a friend in return. Today she seems sad. She thinks the books and exercises are dumb. Very frustrating.

For you guys that went through this, how did you last? I keep thinking about how awesome things will be once she realizes I stuck through this, sort of like paying it forward.

Should I ask her open ended questions? What can I do to make you feel good today? If you could have anything right now, what would it be?

How can I push someone who is depressed, introverted, and naturally against trying new things?


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

"How can I push someone who is depressed, introverted, and naturally against trying new things?"

You can't! Brother, I think all of us still hopes this works out but if it does, there is a TREMENDOUS road ahead of you and it's going to take a good while, no shortcuts!

As you can see, pushing her, is pushing her away. When you want to push her (emotions, feelings, reception) those are the times when you need to push yourself. To do stuff around the house, hang out with friends, take the kids out to something fun. If she wants to come good, if not, go anyway.

It's going to be a super-roller coaster filled with a lot of angst and frankly moments like this where it feels like flat out depression and sometimes hopeless. As much as I didn't want or couldn't grasp the concept early in counseling. It is very true that no matter what you have to be prepared to let the marriage go. That goes for ending it AND working on it, saving it. 

Keep going to counseling and hopefully that's your avenue but at home, lay off and take it slow. KEEP improving yourself and showing the real/dedicated you through ACTIONs and please, very few words.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

oh, another thing. How often do you try to hug or kiss her, tell her you love her?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Stop accepting the unacceptable.

Stop pushing a rope. 

Right now, she gets to have her resentment AND she gets to have you trying to cowtow to her needs... unreciprocated. I would not allow her to have both. 

If she wants resentment, tell her you understand, but you will no longer be investing in the marriage if that is her choice. Then go do things you want to do instead, pursue your hobbies, etc.

If you go this route and she complains, hold your hand up and tell her:

"Complaints about marriage are for people who are committed to making it great. Since you have made it abundantly clear you are not, there is no point in this discussion."

Then walk away.

Lastly, and most importantly, you do not even go down this road unless you are willing to lose the marriage without improvement.

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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> oh, another thing. How often do you try to hug or kiss her, tell her you love her?


She won't let me kiss her or when I move in I get like the grandmother peck. Saying how much I love her just causes more issues, because she feels bad when she can't tell me back.

Typically no hugs either, but today she was bawling crying and I gave her a good hug for a little while.
@farsidejunky Playing hard to get or going off and doing my own thing has only made things worse. I am trying to throttle how much I actively try just not to come off too clingy. 

The hard part is that we have kids and I have no friends here in this town. I moved away to be with her, and when you're doing the marriage and kids thing you can't really make friends.

Then I work f/t and she watches the kids all day, so for me to turn around and leave again would be construed as not supportive. Plus, where would I go?

Her top love language is quality time. I've been setting up the environment so we can hang out on the couch and watch TV alone each night. I hope that consistency will eventually get her comfortable.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

waynejoey said:


> She won't let me kiss her or when I move in I get like the grandmother peck. Saying how much I love her just causes more issues, because she feels bad when she can't tell me back.
> 
> Typically no hugs either, but today she was bawling crying and I gave her a good hug for a little while.
> 
> ...


I must have missed the universal rulebook that says friends are not allowed once you become married. Could you kindly point me that direction so I could read it?

After being on this forum for over four years, working my way through a marriage not dissimilar to yours, and advising hundreds of people along the way, one thing that always amuses me is when a man comes to this site feeling like he is painted into a corner, when the paint is really just a figment of his own imagination.

You are convincing yourself you have no options because of actions you say she has taken. The funny thing is, every single one of these actions required some semblance of your approval, or at least your acquiescence. You are where you are because you have chosen to be.

Get out of the victim chair. Until then, nothing will change, because you will change nothing.

https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/

ETA: in fact, if you want an exercise to illustrate how muddy you have made these waters, I want you to say one simple thing after everything that you complain about regarding your wife:

"Why did I tolerate it?"

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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

@farsidejunky I did not say that I could not have friends, I just said that I haven't acquired any. That is just a fact. And I didn't really care to when I moved down here, I just like spending time with her.

When you have kids there is no time for anything. Also in your 30s it is hard to make friends. Things like high school, college, and going to the bar are over now. Where exactly would I meet people? The only way would to be going out doing random crap while I left my wife with the kids 24/7. I feel like that will make things worse. I also suck at making friends, I was never good at it. I guess that is something I can work on.

This kick ass don't be the victim approach does feel empowering. At the same time, I feel I need to be supportive and available to my wife.

There is a huge contradiction here, and kids at play, do you have some examples of how this might be resolved?

Does anyone disagree with farsidejunky? Maybe I'm being too black and white.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

waynejoey said:


> She won't let me kiss her or when I move in I get like the grandmother peck. Saying how much I love her just causes more issues, because she feels bad when she can't tell me back.
> 
> Typically no hugs either, but today she was bawling crying and I gave her a good hug for a little while.
> 
> ...


Jesus man, more and more this sounds like you are married to my STBXW. I mentioned before how this reminds me of her but more and more details that come out it seems so similar in her attitude towards making things work. 

You say, going off and doing things made things worse but i'm not sure how it could get much worse. Your biggest enemy right now is that no matter what you do it's going to be wrong. So consistency will be absolute key. When you go off and do your own thing, you are going to be tested by her, whether she even realizes it or not. You do your own thing, you get negative reactions, you are affectionate and you get negative reactions.

From here on out you need to make a plan and stick to it and no matter what her reaction is, you really can't let it deter you.

Even though her LL is quality time, it's not really applicable right now because of the state things are in. The LLs work very well when both parties are vested into wanting the marriage to work, same reality as counseling for the most part. Counseling is most effective when the problems start, not when things are on the brink but not blaming you for that, not many people realize that. They think counseling works as a last resort but don't learn that, that's not the case until they hit that point.

I'm starting to get that sick feeling in the gut for you man cause this feels so eerily similar. I just hope the difference is that she is not cheating or emotionally involved with someone else that turns the 25% chance (just throwing a number out there) to save the marriage to a big fat 0%!

When it's bed time what is the routine? Do you sleep in the same bed at the same time. Just trying to think of a plan.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Right now the pattern is super consistent, i work / she watches kids, when I'm off work I watch kids, when they are in bed we watch TV. Periodically we have a "conversation" about how we're feeling.

Yes we sleep in the same bed, but my toddler usually comes in the middle of the night and I go to another room. That's really the best I can do right now.

She is not cheating at all, she doesn't want to be with anyone. I'll take the 25%.

We have a family vacation coming up soon so I'm hoping being surrounded by all of them will put some real positive spin on this.

Her first IC is on Monday. I think that will tell us a lot about where things are going.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

waynejoey said:


> Right now the pattern is super consistent, i work / she watches kids, when I'm off work I watch kids, when they are in bed we watch TV. Periodically we have a "conversation" about how we're feeling.
> 
> Yes we sleep in the same bed, but my toddler usually comes in the middle of the night and I go to another room. That's really the best I can do right now.
> 
> ...


"Why do I tolerate it?"

Why are you so afraid to be assertive with your wife?

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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> "Why do I tolerate it?"
> 
> Why are you so afraid to be assertive with your wife?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I just don't know if that is the right play. Depression is a touchy thing. I'm trying to be supportive. Pushing her to try harder while I forge ahead on the books etc... doesn't show empathy for what she is feeling.

I dated a girl for 7 years, and had this "yuck" feeling for a good portion of the tail end of it. I could never bring myself to dump her though because we shared so many memories and were intertwined into each other's lives. Eventually I ripped the band-aid off.

I guess I understand her side of the story. She feels "yuck" about me. She wrote her dad off like 2 years ago when she had a preggo outrage moment. She didn't speak to her dad for about 6 months, and now they are completely fine.

If he took an assertive approach with her it would not have worked. It feels like a waiting game.

Any other opinions? Once I let that shotgun blast go, there is no taking it back.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

I agree with @farsidejunky. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I hear him saying is practice a little healthy detachment and self improvement. It sounds to me like she is scapegoating her negative feelings onto you. I promise whatever caused the current state of the marriage is not 100 percent your fault. It's one thing to have a spouse battling a mental health issue or physical for that matter, and it's another when you know they are doing everything in their power to get better. It sounds like your wife truly thinks if she gets rid of you, then all her problems will be solved. Truth is she will find someone else to be unhappy with because she's not dealing with her issues.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ms. GP said:


> I agree with @farsidejunky. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I hear him saying is practice a little healthy detachment and self improvement. It sounds to me like she is scapegoating her negative feelings onto you. I promise whatever caused the current state of the marriage is not 100 percent your fault. It's one thing to have a spouse battling a mental health issue or physical for that matter, and it's another when you know they are doing everything in their power to get better. It sounds like your wife truly thinks if she gets rid of you, then all her problems will be solved. Truth is she will find someone else to be unhappy with because she's not dealing with her issues.


This. 

My wife suffers from depression. This has a good bit to do with why she will withdraw from me for weeks at a time. I have a pretty good idea what you are going through. 

You assume you actually have control or influence.

Control here is an illusion.

Influence here is effectively being eliminated by her resentment towards you, which is pure projection (as Mrs. GP pointed out).

She doesn't hate you. 

She hates herself and is blaming you for it.

Depression at it's core is extreme self loathing. You have become the scapegoat for how much she hates herself.

You realize that this is culminating in her effectively emotionally abusing you, right? The **** thing is that you are so scared of her reactions that you are enabling it to continue. Then, because you choose to continue to enable it, you blame her...when the blame lays at your feet.

What you have to do is figure out if you are willing to continue to be her scapegoat while you delude yourself in thinking you have control or influence...or live life by your principles and let the chips fall where they may. 

Lastly, none of us can truly predict how she will react...a broken clock is right twice a day. This is why my focus is on you, not on her.

"Why do I tolerate it?"

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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

You have a point. I guess I have tolerated it for several reasons, and none of them are probably any good.

1. I have "one-itus" for her according to the married man's sex life primer. In a possessive way I get a sense of satisfaction knowing that as long as she is wrapped up with me, no one else can have her. I can't stomach the thought of someone else getting to be with her.

2. I don't have any life here outside of this marriage because I moved away from my home town. I'm going to try to work on establishing a social network.

3. I thought this was normal for many years and I took it as the best I could do (the occasional good sex but mostly obligatory sex), plus may as well hold on for the kids.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You started a new thread.

If I had never read this thread, I would tell you to find out who her boyfriend is.

In fact, I typed something similar until I realized it was you, then I edited it.

At this point, stop focusing on sex.

Also, stop focusing on her.

It doesn't require a full 180. It does require you to enforce boundaries with her, which (from the sounds of things) you have never really done. 

Think of yourself as sitting in a boat at the dock. This boat belongs entirely to you. Right now you are docked for repairs because while at Sea she has been drilling holes in the boat. Instead of leaving her on shore, you have been following her around and filling those holes, while resenting her for your efforts.

Now that you are docked and repaired, you are about to set to sea again, and it is time to decide if she will come with you. 

As you consider this, the hardest thing to remember is that the boat belongs to you...not her...not both of you...but you. You get to decide what you will and will not tolerate while at sea on your boat. 

Conversely, you also want it to be inviting and safe, which means you have to be fair and honest. But don't confuse fair and honest with tolerating the intolerable.

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