# Repressed, Unloving Wife?



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

It's been a rough night and I've had no sleep. 

Knock down, drag out with the H last night.

Same fight for 12 years now. He wants me to be "open, intimate, vulnerable and let him in". While I understand the concept and what he is saying, I don't know what to "share".

We have always acknowleged that he is the "woman" in the relationship and I am the "man". Meaning, he wants to talk, share, etc. I am of few words. I am a little OCD, controlling and thrive on routine. Vanilla. Coupled with my "lack of communication", he is going nuts and feeling unloved. Of course I love him. I tell him all the time, but I am a demonstrator, acts of service, when he needs WORDS.

He says I am repressed and he is tired of banging his head against my closed door. Probably true. He insists that he just wants me to be ME, but that obviously is not the case. He doesn't like that I don't communicate well verbally, I can very easily compartmentalize, and still be a happy person. I'm a strong, only-child, independant wife and he doesn't feel like there is room for him or appreciation for him.

We went through counseling last year and I have made an appointment for just me next week. What can I do? He believes our whole problem is my lack of communication and that it is ruining our marriage. I agree he has a point. I don't communicate so well with words, but actions. So is the problem ME? I'm going to the counselor to see if she can help "un-repress" me. Or is the problem that he wants me to do it his way and so far I am not capable? We haven't been able to find a middle ground.


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## Dryden (Jan 5, 2010)

Have you asked him what it is he wants you to communicate?

Open, intimate, vulnerable might mean something different to him than it does to you. A dialogue with him about what he feels it means to be 'open, intimate and vulnerable' might help pave the way.

Could it be something as simple as talking to him about your day?

The problem might not be YOU, so find out what it is he wants, then proceed from there. He could just be really reaaaally needy.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

It's not talking about my day. We do that. He says I can talk about the logistics of schedule, family....everything, but he never knows "where I'm at, how I'm feeling" etc. I am neutral, uptight.

I believe it is a mixture of him being needy, and me being "closed".


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## Dryden (Jan 5, 2010)

MsStacy said:


> It's not talking about my day. We do that. He says I can talk about the logistics of schedule, family....everything, but he never knows "where I'm at, how I'm feeling" etc. I am neutral, uptight.
> 
> I believe it is a mixture of him being needy, and me being "closed".


Get one of those fridge magnets with all the smiley face moods on it where you can put a frame around one of them. Then change it accordingly. Tell him to reference the fridge if he wants to know how you're feeling! 

All seriousness though. I still think a discussion about HOW you can provide that information to him could help.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

MsStacy that (was) our situation exactly until I finally realized that that's how she is. What still often bothers me is in wondering why she knows it's an issue with me and doesn't make any real effort to change that. We did the 5 languages and identified what's most important but she never followed through. It isn't that she doesn't love me, just hard to get into a new routine. It's difficult to get into the habit of not being who you are. She (like you) shows love the only way she knows how. My wife works in an office and schedules appointments, she loves tasks. If i'm out of coffee she will run to the grocery store before work, bring it home, brew it and leave a little note. She will take my car to the wash and clean it like new. Women like you are wired different, I remember years ago, I dated for two years a whiny, clingy little drama queen that I couldn't stand (but a fantastic lover) but I'd rather take my robotic wife.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

We have had discussions. I have asked him what he wants me to say. He wants to know what I think, feel, who I am, what's in my head. I agree that I keep to myself. I'm an "in my head" type of person. He wants to know when I'm angry, mad, happy, disappointed, etc. And yes, I should tell him when I'm mad at him, or happy with him.

I SHOW my feelings, moods. He wants to HEAR them.

For example...when we see a movie, he wants to know what I thought about it. Either I liked it, or I didn't. It's that cut an dry with me. He likes to disect, debate. I'm either yes or no. He is all shades of gray. He knows my past, but he says he knows nothing because I haven't shared. I've told him about it. I don't think about those things anymore, they're done and overwith in my mind. He doesn't feel I have "shared". He doesn't understand how I can be done with something. Does this make any sense? 

The movie is the best description I have. I like it or I don't, and he needs more than that.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Martino....that's exactly it!!!!!!!!

We went to the movies yesterday and I forgot to get his junior mints at the counter. Even though the movie had started I went back to get them. I DO so much for him.

It makes him crazy, and insecure, when he asks for more and I say there is nothing there. He will not, or cannot, accept that is how I am wired. It's not that I am not willing. I hope that I can learn how to give a little. 

He says he just wants me to be ME. In fact....that's the exact thing he doesn't want.

Monday is my birthday and we are supposed to go out to dinner tonight with family. He told me last night that I need to do something about the plans tonight. I can compartmentalize what is happening and still go and have a good time tonight. He is unable to. So my change in plan is he just doesn't have to attend. Happy Birthday to me!


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

What he wants psychologically is for you to attend to him in the ways that are most reinforcing to him. You (like my wife) attend in ways that are most reinforcing to you. You are a cut and dried person that moves from point A to B efficiently and precisely in everything you do. He wants some gray area, some creativity, sponteinaity, show your vulnerable self, open up. Let me guess, he often will withdraw in anger to show you what it feels like right? It all goes back to that love languages concept. You and spouse take inventory on what you need, then are supposed to start delivering. It's really to me just a inventory meeting on what is most reinforcing to each.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

OMG! I almost think you are him!

Yes, he will withdraw and I'll know something is wrong because he is quiet and the dance begins. 

I try to open up some, and he even admits he has noticed lately. But I will never be able to become what he wants me to be. I can try to be more verbal, he can try to be more demonstrative. We both know and are aware and have talked about this. So far it's not working. He says I'm a bully because he has to bend to my way of doing things or it's nothing. 

I'm really putting a lot of hope into my appointment next week. I don't know what else to do. I sometimes feel he married me this way, go join a book club!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

You know, I asked for years for some cuddling or touch from him that does not lead to sex. The only time he touches me is when he wants some. I quit asking. That is not who he is and I've accepted that. I'm not holding resentment. It's just not how he opperates. Why can't he accept me that way? His resentment is exploding!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

And I almost think you are her! get that 5 Languages of Love book and take the inventory and see if you can bend. If you can you can, if you can't you can't....


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

How were you able to be at peace and accept you're wife's limitations? Or have you?

I will buy the book today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

I'm at peace but don't fully accept. I view it really as laziness. I've spelled out clearly what I need but she'd rather do things her way. Tried a little counseling but that was a joke for us. It really hit home for me when her best friend told me out of the blue that she never tells her anything about herself. She's one dimensional, can't help it. I just weighed the pro's vs con's, and the possibility of breaking up my family certainly doesn't guarantee i'd be happy with the next woman anyways. That make sense?


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Yes, that makes sense.

Is it laziness? Or asking a zebra to change it's stripes? I know I can try. But sometimes I feel like he wants a different person.


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## Dryden (Jan 5, 2010)

There's a lot of compromise in a relationship too though. So if you are willing to make the effort to try and open up more, he should be willing to meet you on some of the things that you would like from him.

Hopefully you'll both be able to find some middle ground.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

He wants different reinforcement that you are delivering, not a different person. While acts of service are nice he also wants verbal and more physical i'm guessing. Probably wants to kiss more than you do. I do see it as changing stripes and laziness. Any neuro capable person is capable of altering their own behavior to suit their environment....even if for just a short time.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MsStacy said:


> I SHOW my feelings, moods. He wants to HEAR them.
> 
> For example...when we see a movie, he wants to know what I thought about it. Either I liked it, or I didn't. It's that cut an dry with me. He likes to disect, debate. I'm either yes or no. He is all shades of gray. He knows my past, but he says he knows nothing because I haven't shared. I've told him about it. I don't think about those things anymore, they're done and overwith in my mind. He doesn't feel I have "shared". He doesn't understand how I can be done with something. Does this make any sense?
> 
> The movie is the best description I have. I like it or I don't, and he needs more than that.


 Oh my, this is SO like me & my husband !! I am the Debater, the one who wants to disect every thought, feeling and HEAR how he feels, what he wants, what I can do to please him. I consider him too quiet, like I have to put a flame under his rear -end to get him going sometimes. I have, on occasion, started fights simply because I have to ASK him questions all the time, that I want him to ask ME questions sometimes , share more. 

Thankfully, He shows me all kinds of love, touching, the physical, I just struggle with wanting to HEAR more. There is just something about the Verbal - it means a hell of a lot to us "Needy" expressive communcators, I don't know. 

This may sound odd, but I think this helps ME . We have this one close guy friend who comes to visit us weekly & him & I 
spend half the night in heated debate over things we like to explore mentally- movies, politics, religion, literally anything, even sex. It is just FUN for us. Throw us an "issue" & we can chew on it & talk for hours. Husband is perfectly content to just watch us go at it, very little imput, unless asked. The mental stimulation from this, I just crave it sometimes. 

It is very hard for us Expressive minded talkers to understand those who find little benefit in discussing the deeper things in life. Just as you and my husband probably think we are a little crazy NEEDING all this "drama" swirling around in our minds, always needing to share feelings, thoughts & debate life , comparing the black & white & which shades of gray. 

One good thing I will say is this: I have a fantastic marraige -even with our differences. Many times Opposites Attract and probably work better than if your husband was married to someone just like himself (it would be overload) , or me married to my male friend. I think we would have killed each other by now. Where we are weak, they are strong, where we lack, they have abundance. It can be workable. 

It sounds like you want to be more for him. 

You say you have been dealing with this for 12 yrs now, and sought counseling. What did the counselor say -- Did she feel one of you was more at fault ?

(For my situation, his quietness never bothered me too much UNTIL I got more sexual, then I wanted MORE Verbal expressive desirous communication from him cause I felt I did most of it & it was ticking me off. He has truly tried & gotten so much better with this & I have been more accepting of who he is, the way he is).


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Yes, SA...he has friends who fill his "debate" need. Thank God for them! I tried to humor him early in our marriage but I'm too logical, black and white. I can debate and defend what I believe in to a certain extent, but he will choose the opposing side of anything just to have the verbal judo match going. And he can just twist me around 8 sides from Sunday...argh!

In the marriage counseling we dealt a little in how we communicate, but it turned into very specific things. Not in my overall inability or that I'm repressed. We had other things going on at the time that took precedent in our sessions. So now I'm going back on my own. We will see if she can help me to open up some. Because, frankly, most of the time I really don't know what to say.

Martino, what 3-5 things, specifically, do you wish you were getting from your wife? Opening up, talking, sharing....doesn't help. What is it that you wish she would say to you, ask you, etc? Compliment? Thank Yous? It makes me angry when you do x,y,z?


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

"Martino, what 3-5 things, specifically, do you wish you were getting from your wife? Opening up, talking, sharing....doesn't help. What is it that you wish she would say to you, ask you, etc? Compliment? Thank Yous? It makes me angry when you do x,y,z?"

Well no problem telling me what makes her angry, yeah i'm far from perfect too but when speaking of purely our relations, she needs a fair dose of alcohol to open up and really express herself. She told me once after a night of drinking how close she feels to my dad because her's died years ago. That was a shocker and something she would never admit otherwise. When she kisses me say on the couch, her antenna is also on the tv or something else. Like she's multi tasking, something in her says: "I can give him a kiss (since we haven't today) and keep up on Survivor, laundry will be done" whatever, she's a multi tasker! she's in general a mental person and not really touchy feely. Same thing under the sheets, she's a taker at heart and gives what she feels she needs to get pleased herself. Where in the past i've been with women that get off on pleasing. I know that is something i'm missing out on. Even in sex she's guarded. Took several years after we met before she could relax enough to orgasm but the older she gets the bolder she gets, and i'm enjoying that. Easy to focus on the negatives but we have a lot of good things together as well. I'd say that she is in part selfish in that she doesn't put effort into that (like you are) 
but also simply not wired to be expressive. She enjoys her college courses in advanced math, she's an analytic thinker. If we were to spend the day in bed, talking, kissing etc, deep down she would be thinking about everything she "isn't" getting done. 

I'd say your hubby is fortunate in that you are soliciting advice here and going to counseling.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MsStacy said:


> Yes, SA...he has friends who fill his "debate" need. Thank God for them! I tried to humor him early in our marriage but I'm too logical, black and white. I can debate and defend what I believe in to a certain extent, but he will choose the opposing side of anything just to have the verbal judo match going. And he can just twist me around 8 sides from Sunday...argh!


 Thank you for this. I have not met too many people like myself in life (maybe that is a good thing!), I literally get off on playing "Devil's Advocate" --your husband sounds JUST LIKE ME ! and my husband sounds so similar to you! he also says "I just don't know what to say". 

Does he tell you what he desires from you specifically, like what areas does he want you to verbalize the MOST in, what upsets him the most? What triggers these fights -and how often does this happen? Anytime you watch a movie for example? Is it romantic/sexual verbalizations? Is it at the Dinner table when he is sharing his day & wants to hear about your day? out with friends verbalizations? 

I just ask , cause for me personally, it has been "romantic- erotic" verbalizations that I wanted MOST from him - only this has caused me to get upset, even "hurt" at times. When we are out with my kids, friends, his family, his quietness didn't really bother me at all. It was our "alone time", if I felt I was "giving more" verbally than him. Then I start thinking I talk too much, I think too much, So I also must FEEL more than him. 

But I learned that was NOT true at all. Just as I am sure you FEEL as much -even though you do not verbalize it the way he does or wants you too. 

Please feel free to PM me anytime about anything like this. I seriously think I can shed light on your husband's "mindset". 

I wonder if he would enjoy being on these boards, you should ask him to post about how HE feels & see what kind of responses he gets - might help him better understand YOU. Are you THIS OPEN with him about stuff -Do you share all ? If he is anything like me - He would heartily want that. 

There are a few couples on here that BOTH post & share it all with each other in their quest to help overcome some issues they are dealing with.

You seem to express yourself very well on here!


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Well, I can seek advice and help, but that doesn't mean I will be able to change enough to fulfill this need he has. I can try. Your wife sounds very much like me, Martino. I excelled in math subjects all through college. Anything to do with numbers, absolutes, and I love it. Of course my husband was an English major .

And it sounds as though your wife is more advanced than me. One of his big points is that I don't even tell him when I'm angry with him. I'll work things out in my head until I find a resolution or some way of dealing, and he never knew there was a problem. He wants to be let in on my processing. I agree he does have a point there.

Specifically.....he tells me he wants to know how I feel, what I think, and yes, he wants me to be more verbal in bed. That the sound of my voice helps him. I feel so put on the spot! If I don't know what to say outside of the sheets, I sure as hell don't know what to say INSIDE! UGH. He has accepted that I'm won't discuss subjects with him as we would like. He knows he will get either I liked the movie or I didn't. And dinner table talk is fine. I can talk about/discuss the day, schedule, all the mundane family stuff that I take care of. It's the "intimate, vulnerable, sharing" stuff that he wants. He always wants to know "where I'm at". Because for him, me saying that "I'm right here, I'm fine, I'm happy, I'm good" doesn't cut it. Beyond that....really, my head goes blank. And he doesn't believe that there isn't anything there. He does't get how when something is over....something from the past, an argument, anything....that I'm done with it. I don't analyze, dissect, run it backwards and forwards in my head. We had an argument, I was pissed, now I'm done, it's over. He wants to revisit and know how I "feel" about it. Nothing is ever "over" for him. Does this make any sense at all?

I can express myself on here because I do better in the written form. We have tried writting back and forth and it doesn't work too well for him. When writting, he is not interrupting me and interrupting my train of thought. I am very linear.....I need to stay on track or I completely lose what I'm saying, what my point was, and often what the original problem even is! That's what I mean when I say he can twist me around and get me so lost that eventually I really have nothing to say because I don't even know where we are. It's exhausting.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MsStacy said:


> One of his big points is that I don't even tell him when I'm angry with him. I'll work things out in my head until I find a resolution or some way of dealing, and he never knew there was a problem. He wants to be let in on my processing. I agree he does have a point there.
> 
> Specifically.....he tells me he wants to know how I feel, what I think, and yes, he wants me to be more verbal in bed. That the sound of my voice helps him. I feel so put on the spot!


 My husband has told me I am putting him on the spot too. Yes ,it all makes sense, I too LOVE english, suck at Math and My husband sucks at English and is Great at math! Something to all of this. Our brains simply function differntly -which leads to SO much misunderstanding. I am sure our "Love Languages" and our "Temperments" play some part in all of this also. 


It sounds like you realize, from your own words, that you need to let him know when you are angry/upset. 


Is he very critical also to you? Who is in more pain over this--you (Because of his constant wanting more verbally) or does he try to twist it and make it sound like he is suffering more -does he say he does not feel loved by you, desired by you? 

Sorry for all these questions, I do hope you can work this out. 

ONe thing I see him doing wrong is : If you have a fight, and you & he get over it, he wants to bring it BACK up again later -to revisit how you feel. Does he feel it was never resolved somehow? 

Me & My hubby have had a # of fights(with me starting them over this silly issue) , I referred to them as my "meltdowns" , but one thing I never did was bring up anything from the past -that we delt with. We always thoroughly talk through everything -even if it takes hours. I finally overcame my issues with this, thankfully. I will admit I was very "needy" in this department. I wouldnt think a man would be this way, but I guess it matters to them also. 

What do you NEED from him ? Have you guys sat down and listed what you WANT and what you NEED from each other and compared your lists - to see how you can reach some kind of compromise??


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

MsStacy, 

I just meant that you are here is a good start. I guess it depends how much you are willing to try. It's certainly not your fault (as is my wife) that you are this way. Mine I know is willing to try within her own bounds.

Maybe practice expressing what you "thought" about a movie? what particular scenes swayed your opinion? how you feel about your husband? this is all a skill that needs to be learned. Think about what he does that turns you on, write it down and remember to let him know next time you are under the sheets. A CBT psychologist could give you more ideas if you are interested.


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## helper2555 (Mar 22, 2010)

Get some sleep and keep thinking about better ways to communicate. There has to be common ground.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

How is your sex life? Seriously - how much of this is code - from him to you - that he wants more sex?







MsStacy said:


> Well, I can seek advice and help, but that doesn't mean I will be able to change enough to fulfill this need he has. I can try. Your wife sounds very much like me, Martino. I excelled in math subjects all through college. Anything to do with numbers, absolutes, and I love it. Of course my husband was an English major .
> 
> And it sounds as though your wife is more advanced than me. One of his big points is that I don't even tell him when I'm angry with him. I'll work things out in my head until I find a resolution or some way of dealing, and he never knew there was a problem. He wants to be let in on my processing. I agree he does have a point there.
> 
> ...


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

SA - I wouldn't say he is so much critical, but rather judgemental. He realizes this and does try to temper it. As for who is more in pain over this....I believe he is. Sometimes he'll pull the "poor me" routine and make everything out to be my fault, but that is very seldom. He's self-analyzing so he is pretty good at recognizing his faults and shortcomings. "Meltdown" is a good word for it. He will try to go with the flow, or as he says it "do things my way", until he's feeling like he's in the gutter and will explode.

I thought we had a couple pretty good days since the fight. But he came home from work last night very down. He has pretty much cut himself off from his family (can't say I blame him, not one of them put any effort into a relationship), feels like he has no friends, has gained some weight around the middle since he quit smoking and can't get it off (coupled with emotional eating), and top it with "these things between us". He's just all around feeling very bad about himself and I don't know what to say.

Bringing up things in the past.....it's not that he is throwing it back in my face, we really don't resolve things. The core of what we argue about is what I've been explaining here. He wants to know me, where I'm at. I'm a fixer....if he has a problem, I need to fix it. He usually doesn't want me to fix it, he wants me to talk about it with him. I can talk about ways to fix it. He wants to know my feelings about it, something...I don't know. 

MEM - our sex life....well, it could be better, but I don't think it's all that bad. Probably some of his unhappiness stems from that, but I don't believe it is the core. He regularly turnes my advances down. I never turn him down. We have sex about 3 times a week on average. Sure...he'd like me to be more spontaneous, uninhibited, VERBAL, etc. I'm very routine driven, I order the same thing off the menu everytime, I like things the way I like them. He wants more variety. I'm always game to go along, but he would like to not be in the drivers seat all the time.

How can I build him up? Shore up his self esteem a little right now?


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

I think all his family stuff and weight/smoking is not for you to carry the burden, he has to work through that himself. Sooner or later he has to (like I have) accept the profound differences between you two and you both have to find a middle ground. We don't want to live in total "me-harmony" (remember that SNL skit where it's a dating service for people who want exactly the same person they are?) I hope you didn't take offense to my CBT therapist suggestion, they are just really good at giving people new things to try. I've seen one myself. :smthumbup:


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Oh no....no offense taken Martino. I certainly need new things to try. I don't know what kind of therapist mine is...I will ask her about it.

I know he has to work through his issues. But when he feels everything is down on him, he wants to know that I still love him, find him sexy, appreciate him. I guess I should just say those words to him. Usually I would try to do something nice for him for when he comes home. He probably just wants me to tell him, huh?


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Yeah kiss him then read a letter aloud (since you said that you have a hard time keeping your thoughts write them down) he wants to take the relationship to a deeper level.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

A letter...that's a good idea.

I have a lecture I am going to tonight, so he will be home with our daughter. Probably asleep by the time I get home. Is it a cop out to write a nice letter and leave it for him to find? To me that sounds nice, but is it DOING something vs. SAYING something?





wait....he just got a card in the mail from his dad yesterday. Nice card saying how proud and that he is loved. It made hubby's day worse yesterday because he felt it was manipulative.

If I leave him a letter tonight telling him why I love and appreciate him, it will seem like it was because of the card from him dad...gave me the idea type thing.

Good idea or wait a few days?


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

I think it would be much better to read it to him in person. More genuine, just prepare to discuss the details with him!


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

MsStacy said:


> A letter...that's a good idea.
> 
> I have a lecture I am going to tonight, so he will be home with our daughter. Probably asleep by the time I get home. Is it a cop out to write a nice letter and leave it for him to find? To me that sounds nice, but is it DOING something vs. SAYING something?
> 
> ...


Ugh. That's pushing me into my uncomfortable zone Martino. I'm sure he would really like to hear all the reasons I love and appreciate him though. I can't do it tonight, but it will probably take me a couple days to compose that letter. Ok....I can do this!


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Sure you can, you can write it and read it to him. Ofcourse do it when the time is right and he's in a good mood. But trust me, will be better recieved read in person. Even if you don't read it out loud, at least personally hand it to him and let him read it while you are there. Leaving it is in my opinion just too impersonal.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Well, here we go again...the cycle continues. Today was his Friday. We get through the work week and he has a 'meltdown' now that we're at the weekend. Typical.

I've been trying to bridge his coldness this week, but of course I'm physical and he's verbal, so it's done nothing but piss him off. Every day I have told him I love him. Every night I have gone to bed, kissed his neck, rubbed his back and held him. My Bad! He actually asked me what all that meant. ?????? Told me I don't communicate anything about our marriage, our relationship, that I explain more to our four year old than I do to him. I replied that I don't have to teach him how the world works like we are teaching our daughter.

We fought pretty bad last week, and I apologized (verbally!) sincerely. He seemed to accept that. I was done, but apparently, as he informed me tonight, we "didn't talk about it at any point this week". 

My counseling appt is tomorrow and he actually mocked me tonight. That "here I go, running away again, off to find my 'fix' for the problem, alone and on my own as always". He has been telling me for some time now that I need counseling. Now I'm going to get it and he actually said it was just another one of my ways of controlling everything. WTF??????

He says I am choosing to torment and hurt him this way. He is so miserable and unhappy and I choose this! He says that he can't stand to sleep in the same bed, so I left for the couch. Yeah, he's so miserable and unhappy he's snoring in there right now.

I'm so tired of feeling like sh!t.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Ok now i'm mad, your hubby needs to realize when you are making genuine effort and recognize it. He's dumping on you now. Take him to task: "Ok what do you want to talk about? what aren't you getting from me?" then you do it. He's being an over clingy co-dependant a-hole.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I may just love you Martino!

I asked him....specifically what it is he wants from me. He says he is so desperate that he wants me to b!tch like I used to about him leaving dirty dishes in the sink...that "he would even take that as communication and that I'm invested in the relationship". 

Look out :FIREdevil:

I'm about to start smoking again!


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Needless to say.....I'm not writing that letter anytime real soon.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

martino said:


> your hubby needs to realize when you are making genuine effort and recognize it. He's dumping on you now. Take him to task: "Ok what do you want to talk about? what aren't you getting from me?" then you do it. He's being an over clingy co-dependant a-hole.


 It really does sound like the case here, unfortunetly. I used to have what I termed meltdowns myself (all cause I wanted more erotic sensual talk), but if he even tried in any way at all, I was thrilled to tears, smiling from ear to ear & acknowleding every little gesture. 

Your holding him at night, saying you love him, rubbing his back and he has NO response for this to you????? 

I think HE needs the counseling, cause it really is HIM that is NOT happy here. You are pretty much fine with your marraige, other than HIS unhappiness clouding everything, and him twisting all the issues back on you. He is not taking ANY responsibility for his own emotions and well being. 

I guess what can you do, but keep doing, keep loving , being patient and keep talking, even if you are upset! Sounds like he wants to hear it all. Maybe he needs to hit rock bottom to realize this is MORE his personal issue than anything you are doing or not doing.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Mad at you for not yelling at him about dirty dishes is stupid and doesn't show anything but that he is holding you accountable for his own individual happiness. I don't know much about co-dependancy but I think he needs to sort that out with a professional.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

He asked if I slept on the couch last night because of the fight. I said partially yes, and because I couldn't get to sleep until after 2am. What I should have said was that he made it perfectly clear he didn't want to be in the same bed...that would have been the communicating that he is asking for. It's hard for me not to temper some of my comments because I don't want to hurt feelings. I have to take the gloves off. 

I was pretty quiet this morning because I feel stung, overwhelmed and raw. He asked if I'm giving him the silent treatment. Meanwhile, we were getting our daughter ready for school and he's got his iPod and headphones on. I left, told him I was doing a few things this morning and that my appt is at noon. He was quiet, said ok, but was acting as though...I don't know how to describe it...as though I should be staying and talking. Cuz, we had an argument last night and I never come back to talk about it, I never "follow up". I'm so tired. 

He told me last night that when it comes to our relationship I am vague and have no opinion. I can talk about anything but "us". But as soon as I start to say anything he cuts me off, says he won't do my passive/aggressive BS, or that I'm being defensive, argumentative...whatever...he knows it all. 

I've always known that he places too much of his personal happiness on my shoulders. I've told him before that I am not responsible for that. "Oh, it must be tough to have a husband who loves you so much, wants to share everything with you and do everything with you". Actually, YES! I've told him before to find a hobby, get some friends, I can't be his personal entertainment director. He truly is trying to branch out right now, form some new friendships and find guys who are interested in doing the same things he is. But as I mentioned before, he's not talking to his family, the couple friends he has have disappointed him, and then there is me. We all disappoint him. If I "talk" about that, then I'm playing the victim, and he is trying to make friends and do new things. gggrrrrrr. 

He likes to list our options....does it all the time. #1 we can divorce #2 we can live as roommates and I can explain to everyone why we are in separate bedrooms #3 we can resolve our problems. How do we do #3 I ask, because we've been so successful thus far on our own? I simply open my mouth, have an opinion, and compromise with him a little. Oh! Silly me. 

Sorry, I'm just rambling. No sleep and I am just so tired of being the one that is broken.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Then sit him down and tell him: "I want to talk about us, i'm fine but what do you want to discuss about us??" ask him three times a week "Do you want to talk about us or are you cool?" over satiate him with "Us" discussion until he gets his fill. Give him his fill of what he needs until he realizes that things aren't so bad with you but with himself.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

If I do that, and he does all the talking, that will reinforce what he keeps saying. He says that he does all the talking while I sit and nod my head, say I'll try, agree that he has a point. He talks while I listen. 

Right now I just want to go away. I don't want to be around him. I want some space. We are going to our family vacation house next week for Easter. I want to pack up my daughter and myself and go now, have a few days away. I just spent 10 days up there without him last month but other family was there too. I'd like to go just me now. Can't see how that would do anything but cause more harm though. He's really got me down today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Only if you let him do all the talking and only if you reinforce what you shouldn't. You need to stop him right after he says something false and pin point the untruth.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

My therapist pointed out that what he is truly asking for is my feelings. I am supposed to come home and say, "last week when we had the big blow out fight, I was feeling x,y and z." Last night I should have said that it hurt my feelings when he mocked me for going to couseling and called it controlling, instead of pointing out how I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. He wants to know my feelings and thoughts and somewhere along the line I found it to be unsafe to express those and quit. Gee....you think? She actually gave me a print out of feelings listed. I have to admit, it might be helpful. 

So....when he says we haven't talked about our argument, etc., what he is basically saying is that he doesn't know what I think or feel about what happened. 

I'm supposed to identify when I'm feeling tight and find the feeling that fits and express that to him. I'm afraid of opening this can of worms....she told me to open it all up...all thoughts and feelings to him until I can learn to feel comfortable with that. Then we can work on tempering what is warranted and what is better left unsaid, instead of me leaving everything unsaid in order to avoid conflict. 

I'm exhausted. He is downstairs in the garage and I should be down there "sharing". So....I'll go try. Feels like I'm off to the executioner (how's that for identifying a feeling?).

Thank you guys for hanging in here with me. You Rock!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Feelings...exactly!

He needs to HEAR what your thoughts are. Because he thinks you feel NOTHING for him or about him. That scares him. He feels unloved. 

Did you ever read the 5 Love Languages book? You really need to. You're very analytical, so think of it this way. Your mind needs data and resolution to feel completed; without it, you get antsy. So you put your effort into organizing your life so that you get results; you feel completed. You don't need him for that, because you get it all from right inside your own head (I'm the same way).

His mind needs affirmation, acknowledgment, and touch to feel completed. But you don't give that. You're too busy compartmentalizing, staying in your SAFETY zone, to address HIS needs. So, since you aren't extending any effort to walk in his shoes, to meet his needs, he is left feeling antsy...all the time.

He isn't getting any feel good by being with you. You are getting feel good just because your life is ordered and working well enough to allow you to meet your own needs. 

_He_ feels stranded and unloved. 

The first 10 years or so of my marriage, my H kept asking me if I loved him. I didn't share with him. I didn't need to; it was all in my head where it belonged. But as my H, I owed it to him to share. He finally gave up, and we pretty much live like roommates. Not a pretty sight.

You said:
_It's not that I am not willing. _

I will disagree. If you WERE willing, you would be stepping outside your comfort zone and trying, step by step, to do what he asks. But you don't. It doesn't feel good, so you don't. 

So you are NOT willing. You are staying safe.

What your counselor suggested is for you to step outside your comfort zone to reach out to him and do what does not come naturally to you. Isn't your marriage worth it?

btw, what was your childhood like?


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Nope don't buy that, it's a skill she needs to learn and is learning. Expression comes easier for others. See I believe there are really two types: the creative/expressive type person and the taskmaster/analytical/precision type person. She needs to learn (if she wants) how to tip the other way some more, just like he could probably use some of her skills. It's all balance. He is way ahead in that she is at least trying. But he's foolish to criticize her efforts. That's how I see it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe I misunderstood, but her efforts haven't really started until now, have they? The counselor just repeated what her husband kept saying, but now that the counselor said it, she now understands?

I get that there's an emotional issue to not hearing it from your spouse. I'm glad she's now willing to talk to him. But from what she's described, she pretty much ignored what he asked for until now.

At any rate, I'm glad she's now willing to try to go outside her comfort zone.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

You are pretty correct in your assessment of me T. I compartmentalize, organize, work things out in my head, etc. And yes, I would be just fine without my husband. I've always thought I should "feel" more for him, but I don't. Of course I love him, I choose him, all that stuff, but no, I'm not the emotional girl who can't live without her man. 

Yes, I have tried before. This is not my first attempt. Maybe my first attempt at digging deep at my issues and finding what he is asking for specifically. We've been married for almost 13 years, not my first attempt. But I am asking for specifics and examples from him, because after all these years, being "vulnerable" and "intimate" just doesn't explain it to me. Asking me if I "have anything to say" just shuts me down. We have done counseling, and I have tried before, and I have slipped back into what I know and what is comfortable. I am trying a different way this time, taking a different path, identifying what can be fixed with me, and working on what we can together. Of course, after our talk a little while ago, he's on me because I'm doing something on my own and we are not "walking together". Well, I've walked that walk and it doesn't work!

My childhood....in a nutshell, I'm an only child raised by a single mother. Not a lit of sharing or compromise learned there. Happy childhood, now best friends with my mother. No father figure, and no relationship examples to learn from. Growing up, if I didn't like something, I picked up my toys and went home. Older and dating, I didn't fight with boyfriends and I didn't break up. Once I was done, I was done. Not the most healthy or productive, but I avoid conflict and it worked for me then. Of course, DH likes to tell me all the time that it doesn't work now. I'm stubborn, and yes, controlling, although I have made great progress in that area.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I see a lot of 'I want to do things that make me happy' in your answer. I'm sure that comes from your childhood. My D19 is an only child and a lot like you. She scares me sometimes because she doesn't have the 'empathy gene,' as I call it. If a guy doesn't do it for her, he's gone. 

You say you've made progess in being controlling, but isn't the choices you describe a part of that controlling? The deciding that YOUR comfort zone is more important than HIS comfort zone?

I'm not trying to dis you, but to get you to see that you ARE determining your future, because of your past. A nontalker can learn to talk. A feeler can learn to shut up. But if your H is at an impasse - and he seems to be - it's the time when you choose what matters most. I get the sense that you are going to try a little, decide it's too much work and your H isn't worth it (like in your past), and you'll lose him rather than learn to be different from who you are. Or let him be strung along so you aren't alone the rest of your life. Because you are good at self-preservation. JMHO

I'm not saying that's a bad thing; we all make our own choices. I'm just trying to give you more data to deal with.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I disagree. Of course I do things to make me happy. But I also bend over backwards doing for him, without complaint. I'm certainly not happy and I wouldn't be doing any of this if I were not trying to meet his need. If you say you've been there yourself, you should know it's not as simple as a non-talker just talking. I've asked him for just as many years to cuddle and touch me without the expectation of sex. So maybe, just maybe he will try to come out of his 'verbal' comfort zone. I don't know where I ever decided one's comfort was more important than the others'. I just don't beat him over the head with it at every opportunity. I can accept he will never be a 'toucher' or a 'doer' like I would like. 

I don't know why it has to be his way or my way. Can't we just work toward the same thing, using tools and assistance available to us, and customize to fill the part each of us is lacking?

If I were to follow form and stay completely within my comfort zone, I would have been done with this marriage a long time ago. Somewhere along the line I got tired of the mocking, the interruptions, the condesending attitude and the sarcasm and found it was easier to "do it my way" and stay quiet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I can understand that. What do you think about finding a really good (i.e. better than the average) counselor who actively works with you to get you to just DO stuff to change your dynamics? It seems like if someone were sitting with you saying 'ok, stacy, now say ABC' and 'ok, mrstacy, now that she did that, YOU try this' it might be more proactive and productive. What do you think?


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks Martino. 

It's encouraging to know someone feels I have a shot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

T...that sounds like what we did today. Although, granted today was mostly working with me to identify when I'm actually feeling something. 

Using the example I mentioned before from last night when he called me controlling and mocked me for going to counseling. I said I'm damned if I do anything and I'm damned if I don't. When I should have simply said that hurt my feelings. So, using old notes from our sessions last year and some improve of her own, she walked me through some of those situations where I need to recognize and share a feeling instead of giving off a flippant response. 

oh, I just reread and had misunderstood you. Right now I want to uncover and find my feelings before he comes in. My biggest hurdle right now is identification instead of defense. Make sense?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

I'm growing more frustrated with your husband.


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## Carefulthoughts (Jan 21, 2010)

Just reading the first few pages of your post. It seems like you have walls up or you both do. Maybe you two should try and recognize these walls and begin to work on lowering them for one another. I didn't realize how many past deep seeded issues my wife had till we seperated. If you truly love him you will work with him on both of you opening yourselves up to one another. It is a very intimate thing which should be reserved for husbands and wives of course.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's kind of what I was alluding to: walls. 

We ALL walk around with OUR notion of what's going on. It's impossible to totally understand what our spouse is thinking. But I do know, from experience and lots of study, that the fastest way to reconciliation, in nearly every single circumstance, is to share your thoughts and feelings, so your spouse CAN hear how it is from your side. Only then can they feel closer to you and feel like connecting with you. And isn't that what marriage is all about?

lol, of course, that is NOTHING like what I have in MY marriage. But it's easy to say what people should do, isn't it?


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## Carefulthoughts (Jan 21, 2010)

Yes and you have to remember most people never see your intention. They see what you do. I am tired of living with walls up in my life.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MsStacy said:


> I compartmentalize, organize, work things out in my head, etc. And yes, I would be just fine without my husband. I've always thought I should "feel" more for him, but I don't. Of course I love him, I choose him, all that stuff, but no, I'm not the emotional girl who can't live without her man.


 It would hurt me *TREMENDOUSLY* if I knew my spouse felt this way about me. Your husband must FEEL this from you and he is endlessly seeking/hoping for SO much more, hence some of his depression & ongoing badgering about sharing your feelings. For some, this realization would be completely shattering. Others might not care at all , all depends on the person. 

(example: Just like some men do not care if their woman enjoys sex or even has an orgasm- as long as they get it & when they want it, they are fine & happy. Other men might go completely out of their mind trying to give their woman an orgasm & if they could not acheive this, they could NOT be happy themselves, regardless if the woman was OK with it or not). 

Some men just *need* more. 

I don't think one can be taught or counsoled to FEEL for another, it is either there or not there. Maybe one of his greatest desires in life is to feel greatly loved, Needed and Cherished by the woman he married, knowing she could not live without him, that he IS *THAT* important. 

Was it always this way, or something has been lost ? (the walls?). 

His love Language is obvioulsy verbal "*Words of Affirmation*" but before you can give this to him, it needs to be FELT from your heart. Just "trying" to please him for the sake of his happiness and harmony for peacefullness, for many would *not* be satisfactory. 
It would still be lacking terribly if you do not truly & utterly "feel" what you are affirming. He literally needs you to FEEL, it is empty without that. 


Here are the Love languages explained: 

The Five Love Languages


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MsStacy, have you ever read about toxic shame? It may not apply to you, but it was definitely the cause for me to be of the same mindframe you are in. It's worth looking at, because if it does apply to you, you can do something about it. A good book on that is Healing The Shame That Binds You, by Bancroft.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It would hurt me *TREMENDOUSLY* if I knew my spouse felt this way about me. Your husband must FEEL this from you and he is endlessly seeking/hoping for SO much more, hence some of his depression & ongoing badgering about sharing your feelings. For some, this realization would be completely shattering. Others might not care at all , all depends on the person.


I think that's part of it. I'm sure he feels this. It has always been this way to an extent. I've never been the "I can't live without you" type person. 



Saturday my daughter spent the day and night with my parents. Hubby and I went out to lunch and talked. At least I think we talked. I felt like I opened up some, identified some feelings, stumbled around some things I could do differently, and basically talked about our issue without getting upset, defensive and shutting down. We browsed downtown a little, chatting a bit more, and then went our separate ways in the bookstore.

That afternoon we layed around and read some books, then watched a movie together that evening. Even chatted about the movie a bit more than "I liked it".

Sunday morning he left for work. Every day when he leaves he comes to give me a kiss goodbye. He did not do that yesterday morning. When he came home last night he was cold, not speaking to me, and went for his run. I had dinner with our daughter and he ate after he got back while I got her ready for bed. When he finally came to bed lastnight I asked him if he was upset about something. He asked why? "Because you're cold and not speaking to me". "Just the usual stuff I've already told you about" he said. Then we each read our books before going to sleep. He slept, I didn't.

I totally understand that this was an opportunity for me to "talk". But I really didn't want to go over the same stuff at 10:00 at night. I really felt like I had done pretty well on Saturday.....better than what is normal. 

Where the hell did I go wrong? I feel like he expects to snap his fingers and BAM....I'm talking, sharing, etc. Like there is no _room_ for improvement, that's not good enough, he has to have the immediate fix of his 'broken' wife!

I almost asked him Saturday night when we went to bed if he felt I had done better in our conversations on Saturday. Guess I should have....one of those times I hold back that I shouldn't.

I don't want to discuss the "issue" anymore. I think he wants to everyday until it's resolved. I don't see that we can talk ourselves into a resolution, I think I need some time and opportunity to show him I can be more open and verbal. We have talked about the issue for years and years and years! 

Why am I getting the cold shoulder and silent treatment?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I had to guess, it's because he now knows that you 'get' the issue, and he is beginning to open himself up to you after protecting himself for so long from the hurt of having a non-caring spouse (in his mind), and he's not liking feeling the feelings he's experiencing again. He built a wall to protect himself from you, to stop thinking about why his wife doesn't love him (as he sees love); so, for a long time, he just hasn't felt, period.

Now that you've said you get it, well, he DOES expect to see more. And he's not. He's seeing you taking the 'issue' out of the box, looking at it, weighing it, analyzing it, even talking about it a little, and then putting it back in the box, cos you're 'done.' At least for the day. And that hurts him.

Just as YOU have trouble understanding how you could possibly _feel_ more than your brain wants to, HE has trouble understanding how what you claim IS you feeling, looks like nothing more than a cold analysis of an inanimate object. In his world, you just feel; emote; cry; laugh; enjoy. In his world, to NOT do those things is to not feel at all. So when you SAY you're expressing yourself, your feelings...well, he doesn't get it. Just like you don't get what all these people around you call feeling.

Bottom line, the best thing that can happen in your marriage is to TALK. Just TALK. The more you do, the easier it will be for you to slip into the 'other' side a little here and there. The more he will begin to think that just maybe you DO love him.

Did you ever look up toxic shame like I asked? The number one symptom of it is to be unemotional. To shut off ALL feeling so that you don't feel the bad stuff. Most people never even know they're doing it, but they build up a whole life around not feeling, and thinking that's normal, and that that is what they like. Slip in a couple books on that while you're doing your reading; see if it fits.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I looked up the toxic shame. Online and in the bookstore. While I see that I exhibit some of the character traits, I don't find anything in my childhood which would be the cause. I don't believe shame is my issue. I believe that I'm wired a certain way. As the years went by he has hammered me to the point I shut down. Which caused him to hammer more and harder. 

For example....on the way home Saturday in the car we were having a conversation. I told him I didn't agree with something he said, felt it was judgemental, and only his opinion while he was stating it as fact. He jumped in and started twisting me around, as he is so good at doing. I got to the point I didn't even know what the point was anymore and was no longer debating him. I asked him if he enjoyed mindf*cking me like that. He grinned and said yes, he gets a sort of guilty pleasure out of it. 

Do you wonder why after 13-14 years of this that I'm quiet? And while I'm trying to spend the day opening up, giving him what he wants, getting around my own walls and barriers, and working on US, he takes it and starts playing his games with me?

What more is there to talk about with this issue? We have identified that my inability to intimately communicate is the core issue. Talking _about_ it isn't working in my mind. I feel like I need to have the opportunity, many opportunites, to open up and do something different. I can't perform on demand.

I understand he wants it all at once. He wants it right now. It took years for me to silence....is it asking too much for a little space to find myself again? The more he hammers, ridicules and plays his games with me....the less I'm going to want to change.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then why don't you go to a certified marriage counselor, and let them help you make it more equitable?


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Stacy it's two core issues here both equally important, one is his need to belittle and control you and judge you. And your inability to open up. Maybe he's caused it and pushed you away? people like that who are verbally assaultative i've often found it very effective to stop them abruptly and isolate what they just said and point out the untruth point by point. He's better at arguing than you are. It's been said that when something is said over and over and over again without challenge it becomes accepted as truth. No real nuggets of help here from me here, I just think you really need to start pushing back.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If he is that abusive, they would be better off with professional mediation to be able to catch him at it and teach him to control that behavior. Simply pushing back will just lead to divorce.

(although I agree that she shouldn't just take it)


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Counselors always sound ideal but do they work? is the counselor good? will the husband drop all his pre-conceived notions about the world of therapy or will he simply roll his eyes?? her husband needs a wake up call. Like a 30 day trial seperation or her to just go off on him one day, something to wake him up and realize what an ass he is. He won't even allow her to try and open up. He's a fool because she is at least trying.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

We went to a counselor together last year. Helped some. He is not going with me now because he has made it very clear that *I* am the one who needs counseling, help, who is causing the problem. I've told him that I wanted to start with our counselor by myself and then have him come in once I've had a chance to work on me.

Martino....I would really like to get away from him for awhile. But I always want to get away and that's part of the problem. Spent 10 days away at the beginning of this month. Did absolutely nothing because he said I'm still not talking about the issues. That was before our big blow up though. I asked the counselor last week if it was a bad idea for me to go away, she agreed that it was.

I've been obsessing with this in my head all day. What do I say to him when he gets home from work tonight? My anxiety level is through the roof. My first instict is I want to shut down. 

So what do I say? That I feel like he's not even giving me a chance? I feel like we did pretty good on Saturday, and all of a sudden I'm getting the cold, silent treatment the next day. Why? Because I'm not talking about the problem according to him. I don't want to sit and talk about the "problem", I know what the problem is. So what am I supposed to say?

I'm not looking forward to him coming home tonight and that really sucks.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Stacy I know my thoughts and opinions only help to a certain degree as you obviously know the situation much better. Based on what you've said I think he has fully convinced himself and you that there is something majorly wrong with you mentally in which I don't agree. Sure you need some help in areas of expression but that isn't reason to mentally beat you down. I have the exact same issues with my wife but I don't constantly belittle her for it. So maybe it's time for you to stop caring and put up a "whatever" wall. When he spews negativity just tell him you aren't taking it anymore. That you know that you have an issue to work on but that doesn't give him right to treat you that way. He should be encouraging and nurturing that development in you. Stop worrying and stop caring and tell him why! that you will resume working on it when he takes a good look at himself and knocks off his negativity and brow beating. All i'm saying is that given all other variables here I think it's time for you to STOP CARING about all this and tell him why. That a mature adult and loving spouse isn't suppose to kick you when you're down.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe it would help if you sit down and think about your boundaries. As a person. What things in life are 'untouchables' to you? What things do you need as a person to feel fulfilled and worth staying alive? 

Things like not being criticized without a chance to finish the discussion until both sides are feeling safe or heard. Or being respected for your contribution to the marriage. Or not feeling like you have to worry about your spouse coming home (been there).

If you can come up with what you 'need' in life, and ask him to come up with what he needs, you could sit down and try to hash out how to achieve what you both need. And agree that, if you can't, maybe you need to move on and find someone who 'gets' you.

As for the counseling, what I really meant was that if you could get in a room with a good professional who would require that both of you speak AND listen (and repeat back to prove you understand each other), you might be able to accomplish something. But as with all things, there are many kinds of counselors, as well as many varying _qualities_ of counselors. It may take trying out a couple until you find one.

But, see, that might be one of your boundaries. You are in pain in this marriage. I daresay he is, too, or he wouldn't be being so manipulative or mean. If I were in your position (and had your strength), one of my boundaries would be to tell my husband that I AM unhappy, and am NOT willing to stay in the marriage if he is unwilling to attend counseling with me.

In the near term, when he gets home and the subject of 'problem' comes up, ask him what HIS view of you working on the problem would look like. Listen to him. See if it is something you can do. You'd have it right from his mouth, what he needs.

So, just as you are telling him YOUR needs, you can listen to HIS needs. In specific words.

As always, communication is pretty much the key to any situation.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Wife and I did this exercise once - really good for us. 

Listed the 5 love languages:
Physical
Verbal
Gifts
Quality time
Acts of service

Next to each one we put two numbers on a one to five scale, the first was what we felt we were giving and the second what we thought we were getting. The scale was
1 - poor
2 - less then expected
3 - expected
4 - higher than expected 
5 - exceptional

It ended up with the numbers below - yes I remember the actual numbers from 6 years ago. And our main conflict was in acts of service - totally separate from affection - which mainly is sex. But this also helped us realize how strong our marriage was. The thing is we promised to be brutally honest and this WAS brutally honest and I told her that the 3 she gave herself on acts of service was not accurate - she was doing a combo wife/mommy score which should have been a 4. But while the kids were getting the full service mom I was getting - well you get the picture. And we TALKED constructively about this stuff. I am having a hard time understanding that he is truly freaked by a lack of words BUT it is also true that words can have a huge impact in some situations. Like any night wife doesn't want sex - used to be she would simply come to bed really late - bad bad approach. Didn't work out too well for her - and didn't work out too well for me. Lose lose. 

Now she just says in this very nice voice "baby is it ok if we connect tomorrow?" Now lets be real here - she can just say no any night she wants. But the fact that she takes this approach means there is close to zero friction in our marriage over sex - which is a big accomplishment for two people with fairly different drives. 

Husbands (me)
Type Giving Getting
Physical 4 6 (yes she broke the scale here)
Verbal 5 5
Gifts 5 4
Quality time 5 5
Acts of service 4 2

Wifes
Type Giving Getting
Physical 5 4 
Verbal 5 5
Gifts 4  5
Quality time 5 5
Acts of service 3 4






MsStacy said:


> We went to a counselor together last year. Helped some. He is not going with me now because he has made it very clear that *I* am the one who needs counseling, help, who is causing the problem. I've told him that I wanted to start with our counselor by myself and then have him come in once I've had a chance to work on me.
> 
> Martino....I would really like to get away from him for awhile. But I always want to get away and that's part of the problem. Spent 10 days away at the beginning of this month. Did absolutely nothing because he said I'm still not talking about the issues. That was before our big blow up though. I asked the counselor last week if it was a bad idea for me to go away, she agreed that it was.
> 
> ...


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Her situation is beyond comparing love languages, he's an ass and needs to be called on it in a big way.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

He's late, usually home 30 minutes ago, and I've worked myself into an awful state. I'm shaking, sick to my stomach and pissed all at the same time. I just want to cry. When this happens my stubborn streak usually causes more damage. Here is what I am able to put into words right now....

I resent that I'm really trying, and I don't get encouragement from you. I don't need acknowledgement or a pat on the back. 

I need to feel like I have some space, some room to improve. I'm not going to change overnight and I'm feeling hammered and pressured.

I feel like we talked a little on Saturday. Not huge, but a small step. The result of that has been the cold shoulder and silent treatment.

What do you think I should be doing as I work on being more open? Because if feels like you don't think I am doing anything at all.

I'm feeling frustrated, angry, resentful, anxious. I feel like lashing out and shutting down all at the same time.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

MsStacey~

I think I can summarize this in just a few words. You two have drastically different love languages (which people have pointed out) but also drastically different Myers-Briggs Personality Types. Here's a link to our site that has a Myers-Briggs test/quiz that you can take: Click here and select "Jung Myers-Briggs Personality Test"

In a summary you hubby is probably a Feeler-Perceiver (that's me) and you are probably a Thinker-Judger. For your own reference I am an INFP (Introvert on the edge of Extrovert, very strong Intuitive, Feeler, Perceiver) and my Dear Hubby is an INTP (strong Introvert, Intuitive, Thinker, Perceiver on the edge of Judger). A Feeler interprets the world through their feelings and sort of uses them as a filter--a Thinker would interpret the world through analyzing, considering, examining, investigating, and scrutinizing. Then a Perceiver sees many, many shades of gray and lots of options and rather considers them all...whereas a Judger after investigating and analyzing will see Black or White and there are not shades....just right or wrong, up or down. My *guess* is that your hubby is a Feeler Perceiver and possibly extroverted because he wants to go over the feelings and options externally--and I would *guess* you are a Thinker Judger with at least shades of introversion because you process things inside--internally. 

Now let me give you a concrete example. My Dear Hubby is more like you (not exactly but close). He loves me dearly, can not imagine life without me, and has promised himself to me as well as worked to make good on the promise. He thinks about marriage and how to make marriages better all the time (including ours). BUT he is not a flowery romantic, he doesn't share with me his thoughts and feelings, it's hard for him to even say if he does have feelings (until I sort of point them out to him) and he primarily demonstrates his love through doing things, being there, being consistent, being considerate and thoughtful....etc. (Sounding familiar? :lol: ) I, on the other hand, am a hopeless romantic--loving flowers, poems, satin, perfume, intimate sharing of thoughts and feelings, declarations of adoration and admiration, OY VEY! Getting Dear Hubby to try to talk to me is like pulling teeth! And for a while it drove me absolutely bonkers. 

Then one day I realized something cute. He rarely if ever TALKS out loud, but he picks our music every day and all day long, the music he picks indicates how he feels. He'll pick Rod Stewart, Carley Simon and Frank Sinatra when he's in a romantic shmooshy mood...or Dream Theater or Metallica when he feels energetic... country music when he's nostalgic. He speaks through his music and I can hear that!! :smthumbup:

So your hubby treating you like you are the one with "the problem" is just not cool. It's like saying someone has a problem for having a hair color or for their height. Your personality type (and love language) is just as viable as his, and he can learn to speak your way too! Anyway, my thought is to look at the Personality Page and look at your type, and his type, and find how where you are the same and where you are different.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Stacy keep us posted.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

It went well. Productive and I got across to him. I will have some questions for you all later, I'm sure. He didn't react at all the way I expected and that was nice. 

I did pretty good tonight if I do say so myself 

thanks for hanging with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yay for keeping at it! VERY big step!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I know you had a # of books recommended here, I have another. Amazon.com: Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life: Create Your Life, Your Relationshi (9781417665648): M. Rosenberg: Books 

I never read this book personally, but I am reading another book that highly recommends THIS Book & it pretty much saved the marraige of the writers of the Book I am reading. In the back of this book I have, it has a detailed list of "Feelings & Needs" taken from "Nonviolent Communication". (I give links to this list below, they have a website as well) 

The whole book's premisis is: to support anyone who wishes to engage in a process of deepening self-discovery & to facilitate greater understanding & connection between 2 people. 

It helps you identify feelings you may have when your needs *ARE* being met and feelings you may have when your needs *ARE NOT *being met. 

*Feelings Inventory*:
Feelings Inventory | The Center for Nonviolent Communication


*Needs Inventory*: Needs Inventory | The Center for Nonviolent Communication


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Thank you Affaircare. We both had to take personality tests many, many years ago for our jobs. I don't remember the results, but we are almost complete opposits. In most areas this compliments us and is a benefit.

SA, I will add this book to my stack. I am about to start the five love languages. I have to say, the simple printout of listed feelings that the counselor gave me has been helpful to me in identifying what my feelings are.


I was able to talk with him about the things I listed previously. It actually helped me to have that list beforehand. So that is something for me to do in the future. I think he really appreciated that I spelled out what I need from him right now...what I need him to do and not do. 

I'm finding that I tend to anticipate him. Anticipate his needs, what he will want, what he will say, what he is thinking. And coupled with that I _expect_ a certain outcome. So I am understanding what he is saying when he tells me that I do everything in my head and he never has the opportunity to participate. 

Wow...this is all very uncomfortable and exhausting for me but I feel like we have made some progress and I am going in the right direction. There is a middle ground and we have both said that we can work our way to meet there.

Thank you all for your experience and advice. YOU ROCK!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

After 30 years, the MOST infuriating thing about my husband is that - because he is SO intelligent - he does ALL his thinking in his head, not out loud. He thinks, decides, and acts - all without even letting me know. I used to tell my mom that we'd get in the car to go to Lowe's and end up stopping at 6 other places that day before we made it back home, and he would never even answer me (or our daughter) when we asked where we were going. In his mind, it all made perfect sense to accomplish A, B, C, D, E, and then F. But all I knew about (and dressed for, brought supplies for, had time for, etc.) was A. It was exhausting! Anyway, she never understood what I meant until she came to see us once, and she got taken on one of those whirlwhind tours - she was flabbergasted (and exhausted) that he never once talked to us about what he was thinking, even if we asked.

What he planned made sense, but we were never included in the thought process. D19 would bring a friend, for example, and by 2pm when the friend needed to be back on the other side of town for a piano lesson or something, we'd still be tackling two more things - and then he'd get mad that we'd practically have to beg him to go home. And he'd get mad at the friend for messing up 'our' schedule!

So, yes, internal thinking can be very frustrating.

I'm glad you're working at it. You'll be so much happier in the end.


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