# In the "working on it" stage of no intimacy



## althea (Jan 26, 2012)

I found this site several months ago after googling “high libido in women” in a moment of desperation. I read a ton of posts and I was quickly relieved to discover I was not the only woman on the planet rejected by her significant other in the bedroom, although it did feed into my righteous indignation to be validated that my SO was in the “ wrong”. At least that’s how I interpreted what I read at first. Finally, after reading similar stories over and over, I began to understand that simply “being right” wasn’t going to fix anything. And certainly my alternately crying or complaining to my SO was not helping. 

My SO is sweet and doesn’t want to hurt me, I think. He claims his lack of interest is due to stress or being tired or being busy or you name the excuse, and frankly he often relieves his stress with a whole lot of beer (an issue of its own), which while he won’t admit it, takes intimacy off the table at times. He claims he is still attracted to me. He claims he has no issues with our relationship. We’ve only lived together 2 years, so I don’t think he has any built up resentment. He does sometimes seem like he has some kind of post-traumatic disorder from the hell of his 20-year first marriage. He has tried counseling for himself and feels it is a waste of time, although he has attended one couples therapy session with me and is willing to go to more. Our main goal there was to learn to communicate. He is a self-professed avoider. Anyway, the willingness to try is there, even though it seems we need to go in very, very small increments.

Now realizing I need to back off on the whining, crying, or acting angry, for the last month I have made no attempts to initiate sex. I have not mentioned how I feel. Once or twice I made little joking comments to let him know I was available, but he just chuckled and didn’t act on it. I thought I was acting lovingly in general, but I had him do the 5 Love Languages test, and I discovered I probably wasn’t doing it “right” for him. 

I’m concerned that in our situation my backing off is just making it easier for him to avoid the issue. I thought I would just be pleasant, loving, and non-confrontational toward him and maybe things would just fall into place. I take an SSRI medication now, so as an unintended consequence my libido is not as strong as it was, so I’m confident it’s not that my desire is asserting itself unbeknownst to me. I’m also not positive he really feels comfortable or knows how to initiate. He’s always been awkward with women, which is part of what’s kind of charming about him. We’re not prude, but the subject can be kind of embarrassing.
I know this has been covered on this forum a lot. Believe me, I’ve read every story of people who have come out positively on the other side. And I know I can’t really convey every nuance of our relationship here, but I’m hoping to get some help from those who have been there and done that. I feel we’re in a different phase than what is often discussed here, which is somewhere in between the general discovery and ranting about the problem phase and the eventual outcome of the problem. I have some insights now, but I don’t know what to do with them.

Has anyone else had experience in this messy kind of in-between stage? To hear the other stories told, it’s like there was an epiphany and then things got better. I’m sure it wasn’t like that and there was a whole lot of work in between. So I’m armed with the change in my own feelings and approach (for the better, I hope), his willingness to improve our relationship in many aspects, and my better understanding of his love language (acts of service, followed by physical touch, followed by the gift one- but more in a token way than material way- I gave him a mushy card last night and he was seriously thrilled) and mine (quality time by a very wide margin, which is dead last for him). 

I’ve told him before that most men his age (41) would almost kill to have a SO who was into him and sex. He’s like “I know, I’m a terrible boyfriend”. I’m 45 and feel like I may not have that many years left of having any libido to speak of. I do get really sad (and mad) that I’m pretty much throwing that away.

That was a long, drawn out way of saying…hey- anyone out there have any advice?


P.S. I know from reading so many posts that the mention of our ages will lead to certain questions. I believe his testosterone level is fine. He had a physical and tests awhile back due to some ED and urination issues. His prostate was enlarged, so he was given an injection (I can’t remember of what), and he was all gangbusters for sex for awhile…but then it tapered back off. I do feel this is more in his head than in his body. Everything functions just fine when we do actually have sex and he’s not having the other physical symptoms he had before. The other question is have I let myself go…not any worse looking than when we first met, but he does see me at my worst (bed hair, dirty from yardwork, etc.) and not seem to be bothered.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

There are many red flags in this. He's full of excuses. He is a self professed avoider. He's a drinker. He's got trauma in his past. He admits he's a bad boyfriend. And lastly he isn't willing to do ANYTHING about this whatsoever.

Your mistake is assuming that if you back off it will miraculously get better.

It won't. You are correct all you've accomplished is made it easy for him to avoid the issue therefore nothing changes.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Him saying that he KNOWS he's a terrible boyfriend pretty much means he isn't going to do anything about it otherwise he would have said "I know I have been a terrible boyfriend and here's what I'm going to do about it from now on....."


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Althea, does you husband spend a lot of time with his male friends?
Get him to the doctor and have him checked out for health issues and if they find none, he's just using you for a house keeper and you can definitely do better.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

The fact that he responded (although not for long) with medical intervention sounds to me that there a medical issue to address.

He obviously was able to perform during that time, was attracted to you to have sex with you. Could be performance anxiety brought on my physical problems.


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## althea (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I do tend to greatly overthink things.

I needed a little virtual shaking by the shoulders to get it to sink in that if I do nothing then he'll be free to do nothing.

I'll suggest the medical thing again. 

He works with men, but he doesn't hang out with them all that often. If he goes out it's usually with me. I'm not sure where that question was pointing...

As far as him having the advantages of a live in housekeeper...that's far from the case in our situation. I'm not very good at domestic type stuff. He takes care of his own financial stuff. I work hard outside the home, so he doesn't think I'm lazy or anything like that which might build resentment. Despite not being domestic, though, I will say I'm the one who shoulders the responsibilty for the workings of the household. This is not something I chose or particularly relish...it's just the way it turned out.

At the very least, I can see I won't be happy if I just sit back and think something positive will happen. I probably wouldn't be on here asking this question if it was working.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

How many men WISH and DREAM of having a wife like you... 

If there are any men in sexless marriages reading this, you have probably made them start weeping.

Women like you are extremely rare and the type of woman every man wishes they could do everything for, work, the laundry, cook, whatever, just to be able to be married to someone like you!

Make no mistake, your husband is INCREDIBLY ungrateful, and my impression from your post which may be way off of course is that he lacks initiative and assertiveness in many areas, not just intimacy with you.

There are men out there with MORE stress than him, get home MORE tired than him, that wish they could get home to a wife like you.

He is definitely the problem, and if you start going crazy thinking this all falls on you to fix, then you are doing yourself an injustice.

So, you have an intimacy problem with your husband. You reach out to talk to others. You whine, you complain, you discuss, you suggest, you pull back... You try all these approaches because its important to you... But if it's not important to him it will be for naught.

I think it's time he proved to you it's important to him so you could catch a break.

You said he's working on it... Working on what? Bull****... He should be working on your private parts and on taking you in his arms and being afraid of letting go of such a rare and amazing wife even for a brief moment.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I have been going through the same thing for nearly 5 years, has been really bad for the last 3..

In my experience backing off for me was the worst thing i could have possibly done.

I am tired of talking about sex with my husband, it has been beat to death.. And as you guessed it, nothing ever changed. One ear and out the other.

A lot of men would kill to have a woman that matches there libido's and here I am stuck with a man who never wants to have sex..

Every night i get pretty much the same lame excuses. I have a head ache or stomach ache , too tired, not in the mood etc. every single night!!!

You husband isn't working on anything, if he were you wouldn't be here.

My husband does have the advantage of a live in housekeeper, baby sitter, cook, etc. He doesn't do anything, I cant even get him to take the garbage out for me..


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Interlocutor said:


> How many men WISH and DREAM of having a wife like you...
> 
> If there are any men in sexless marriages reading this, you have probably made them start weeping.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::scratchhead:


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

althea said:


> I’ve told him before that most men his age (41) would almost kill to have a SO who was into him and sex. He’s like “I know, I’m a terrible boyfriend”. I’m 45 and feel like I may not have that many years left of having any libido to speak of. I do get really sad (and mad) that I’m pretty much throwing that away.
> 
> That was a long, drawn out way of saying…hey- anyone out there have any advice?


I wish I could give you advice but all I can do is say "I feel your pain." I'm 48, I'm passionate, am fun, horny and in great shape. I have a fiery and passionate libido that is constantly let down and shot down. It sucks to be us!  Yes, I feel the years dwindling away and it peeves me off that i wasted so many of them dealing with this same cr*ap with my husband. 

I read your post with my mouth half open in amazement. My H and I had the EXACT same conversation last night and he said the EXACT same thing to me "I'm a terrible boyfriend." He basically told me that he is this way, will always be this way and there's nothing he can or will do to change. It sounds like your husband is pretty much saying the same thing to you. 

Now comes the hard part..the accepting and dealing with the situation because when they KNOW they are "bad boyfriends" and don't choose to change or accommodate to the most basic needs of a marriage (a SEX life!) then what IS there to do? 

The sad thing is that a few years ago, for a very brief time (when my husband was a fun drunk, not a mean drunk yet) we had an AMAZING sex life..after 20 years of an awful sex life. Yep, all I got out of 23 years of marriage was two good years. Pretty bad odds, eh?

Then, all the passion and fun faded away and I'm left with this..a bad boyfriend. For the past year I kept praying and hoping that I'd get the good boyfriend I had for a brief time back but I've come to accept that he's gone forever. Now I have to deal with what IS, not hope and pray for what WAS. 

But at least we don't live together. Believe me..it helps A LOT. We're separated over a year but we WERE taking steps in reconciliation. He was sleeping over and telling me to "be patient and give him time" when it came to sex. But then last weekend there was the same old rejection and we had the same old fight but this time I told him he can't sleep over anymore..that I wouldn't be sharing my bed with him "for the time being." He took it hard but accepted it. 

It wasn't my way of punishing him. Quite the opposite. It's how I have to survive and heal. I've come to the realization that he's not going to change and I can't keep hoping and dreaming and trying to persuade him so I'm going to finally put the distance that's needed between us so I can stop the pain that's raged inside me on and off for years. 

So what's my game plan? I have no plans for divorce for a number of reasons too numerous to list here. But what I am doing is putting the necessary distance between us so we can still remain friends. For bad or good, in many ways I want and need him in my life but physically I have to wean myself off him. If I allow myself to get close to him emotionally or physically then I fall back into my old ways, I nag, he blows me off, we fight, etc, etc. 

Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results. Time to stop the insanity!

SO.. I'm going to increase the number of my sex toys. Poor substitute but it's better than nothing. It'll work for now. Some say "why not have an affair?" But that doesn't work for me on many levels. 

I've already built a life of my own in many ways apart from him so it's probably a lot easier than it was when we lived together as a married couple. 

As for you..I don't know what to say. I guess you have some decisions to make. Aside from the sex, is your life good together? Are you friends in other ways? Can you fulfill your needs in other ways? I guess it's time to stop talking to your husband and begin delving within your own self and see where your head and heart are at. 

It's not easy.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Interlocutor said:


> How many men WISH and DREAM of having a wife like you...
> 
> If there are any men in sexless marriages reading this, you have probably made them start weeping.
> 
> You said he's working on it... Working on what? Bull****... He should be working on your private parts and on taking you in his arms and being afraid of letting go of such a rare and amazing wife even for a brief moment.


I'll make them stop crying. Just send 'em here. 

I like your attitude. :smthumbup:


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Try reading up on the 180.
The Healing Heart: The 180
Women can do this too.
It's a bit drastic, but it can give you back some self esteem and get you more focused on your life.

It's meant to give you back control.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> There are many red flags in this. He's full of excuses. He is a self professed avoider. He's a drinker. He's got trauma in his past. He admits he's a bad boyfriend. And lastly he isn't willing to do ANYTHING about this whatsoever.
> 
> Your mistake is assuming that if you back off it will miraculously get better.
> 
> It won't. You are correct all you've accomplished is made it easy for him to avoid the issue therefore nothing changes.


Agree. I think you are seeing that while some people really are working on issues when they say, others are just avoiding it (either because they don't care or they are daunted by the work needed to overcome those issues).

I think a good plan in this case is to hold him accountable for outcome. Just tell him that you've done everything you can to help him through the problem. It is now up to him to restore sexuality to the marriage. You will continue to help in any way you can (but simply agreeing to forego your sexual needs is not an option). Your patience is neither endless nor implicit acceptance of his bad behavior (to counter complaints of "you did not mind before" - "no, I tolerated it with the expectation that you were working on meeting your responsibilities".

The second part to this is simply detach somewhat. Don't completely cut him out, but demonstrate that coming up short on you comes at a cost to him. Leading a satisfying life on your own will also yield benefits in your own happiness and help you cope with this better.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi Althea ~

Are you and your SO married? You mention that you've been living together for 2 years and that he says he's a "terrible boyfriend". I am wondering if you are not married, what is it that makes you want to stay?

It sounds like he's got a number of problems going on - health problems, alcohol problems, and a whole lot of baggage from his previous marriage. He does really need to work on and handle those problems himself - but he's got to be willing to do that. You can support him in doing this, but at some point if he refuses to move forward, you just move to being an enabler of his bad habits and behaviours if you don't set up and enforce some personal boundaries as to what is tolerable and for how long.

As in most things - it's not that you are 'right' and he is 'wrong'. For instance, if you are looking for him to validate you by showing unwavering desire and passion for you, then you could be in the wrong too, as you need to validate yourself first and foremost. If your actions move from being supportive to simply enabling his bad behaviours to continue, then that's a problem too. And that was why I asked what is it that makes you stay?

At the end of the day, you will have to do some thinking about what your boundaries are - how long are you willing to stay if he doesn't want to participate in the relationship, why do you stay when there's no forward traction, etc.?

You mention that he went to some IC and it didn't work out, but it sounds like he didn't have his heart in it. You might want to consider going to IC yourself to understand what you can do in your own life, to enable you to make decisions, set boundaries, communicate and enforce those boundaries, etc.

Best wishes.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

DTO said:


> I think a good plan in this case is to hold him accountable for outcome. Just tell him that you've done everything you can to help him through the problem. It is now up to him to restore sexuality to the marriage. You will continue to help in any way you can (but simply agreeing to forego your sexual needs is not an option). Your patience is neither endless nor implicit acceptance of his bad behavior (to counter complaints of "you did not mind before" - "no, I tolerated it with the expectation that you were working on meeting your responsibilities".
> 
> The second part to this is simply detach somewhat. Don't completely cut him out, but demonstrate that coming up short on you comes at a cost to him. Leading a satisfying life on your own will also yield benefits in your own happiness and help you cope with this better.


This pretty much sums up where I'm coming from now. I don't want to cut my husband out of my life but things can't go on as they have been. It's ripping my heart out. I feel like I'm bleeding from the inside-out. I HAVE to put the necessary space between us emotionally or else I'm going to turn into a hateful b*itch and lose control. It's been happening bit by bit. It's time to pull back from that abyss. 

It helps that we live separately. Getting into bed with a fully clothed man who wants nothing to do with you is what I did for years. Then things got better and now things are back at Square 1 but at least I can go home to my own place (or send him home to his place) and not have to lie awake next to him crying.


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## althea (Jan 26, 2012)

There has been a lot of good advice here to digest, which I am working on.

In the meantime, the past 2 nights we've been through a lot of talking, crying on my part/holding me on his part, arguing, and some more talking.

In summary: 

As an Acts of Service guy who has been fixing my cars, doing errands for me, countless little repairs, and in the process of re-flooring the house (which I wanted), he did not know how bad things had gotten for me. He wondered how I couldn't tell he loves me so much. He was sorry I was feeling so bad.

I did not understand how stress affects him. I felt like the things that were bothering him were minor compared to both the stressors I have and the big stressors that should be affecting him but doesn't vocalize that they bother him. It was actually making me mad. It finally came out that each of those smaller stressors leads back to money. He is a licensed master in the building trade he is in and due to the economy there is not much work in this area. Also due to the economy he can't find a different job that would pay any more than what work he can get. He's out every day ferreting out any work he can get, but he's just barely able to scrape by to meet the bills he has to pay. Some weeks he's got tools at the pawnshop to meet his obligations.

I make enough to keep the household running. In fact, it was my house before he moved in, so his being there added only minimal expense. I sometimes come up a little short, but we usually figure something out. 

No problem, I thought. It is a problem for him. I asked why, even if it's a problem, it precludes him from touching me. He was really very sorry He doesn't exactly know why, but he is completely consumed by his inability to make enough money. That he doesn't have regular work to go to every morning of every day has him depressed. That he has to struggle every day to scrounge up money has him depressed. We talked and argued a little bit more. He blurted out "I should be a man and support you, but I can't". <---I believe this to be the root of it all. His very identity is tied to his ability to provide for his family is what I'm gathering. 

He admitted it's all on him and he has to get better. It was time for a break last night (this stuff is exhausting!) so we didn't get into what that would entail. So it remains to see if he's going to do the work.

I feel a little better. It's hard to explain if you weren't in the conversation or don't know him, but what I originally saw as using stress as an excuse is actually something much deeper than that. He's having a crisis at his very core. Again, we'll see if he does the work. I'll be there for him if he does. If not, then I have decisions to make. 

This is also kind of perverse, but as an almost exclusive Quality Time person, this time spent together, even while some of it was arguing or being held while I cried, fed into my needs. We used to schedule talking into the week (a directive from the counselor). We need to get back to doing that.

Or we might just fall back into the rut. We'll see.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I think he's afraid you are going to leave him therefore he's behaving in a way that will ensure that you do.


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## althea (Jan 26, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I think he's afraid you are going to leave him therefore he's behaving in a way that will ensure that you do.


You know, that's an interesting thought. He is afraid I'm going to leave him. And he's become such a "victim" throughout his life that it would prove him right. Again, another reason for IC.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

I think your husband has said a lot here. He said "He should be a MAN and support you". He's not feeling very "man-like" and that's spilling over to the bedroom. You can't see that? :scratchhead:

He's obviously a man who takes great pride in being able to work and provide an income and he isn't fulfilling that important role in his life. It MUST be affecting his pride and self esteem and therefore his sexuality. Many men are like that. If they can't earn enough to make a proper living then they don't consider themselves to be "proper men". 

And the fact that YOU are the one holding the household together financially is further undermining him as a "man" and it's causing problems as well. There's probably a part of him that resents YOU because you are doing HIS JOB better than he is. He probably doesn't even realize that he feels this but it's coming out in other ways, such as not showing you affection or being sexual with you. 

Even in this day and age men have that kind of pride and it does affect them. It's obviously affecting your husband. I think it's great that he's opening up to you like this. 

I wish my husband had that. He has NO problem sitting around all day doing nothing, pissing away his inheritance and not working.  Aside from the sex, that's ANOTHER huge problem in my marriage..my husband simply choosing not to work. I and my kids have lost respect for my husband as a result ..but he doesn't give a damn. Your husband DOES give a damn. I give him kudos for that! 

I'd support your husband, reassure him and look to get him in counseling. I think there's real hope for you here but you'll have to be understanding and supportive about he feels and not blow him off. 

This is a real problem for him. You have to help build him up and work with him. By telling him he's inadequate in the bedroom when he ALREADY feels inadequate in the workplace and as a wage earner you'll just make things worse. 

I think his sexuality is tied into his inability to provide for you, to be a "real man". Sounds silly and old fashioned but it happens more than you'd think.


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## althea (Jan 26, 2012)

Freak On a Leash said:


> I think your husband has said a lot here. He said "He should be a MAN and support you". He's not feeling very "man-like" and that's spilling over to the bedroom. You can't see that? :scratchhead:
> 
> He's obviously a man who takes great pride in being able to work and provide an income and he isn't fulfilling that important role in his life. It MUST be affecting his pride and self esteem and therefore his sexuality. Many men are like that. If they can't earn enough to make a proper living then they don't consider themselves to be "proper men".
> 
> ...


His statement just took place last night. It was quite the eye opener for me. I take it very seriously ( I even made an arrow pointing to it in my post for emphasis).

I don't hold my salary over his head or anything like that. I don't berate him about the bedroom...if anything most of my comments have been more in the context of what is it about me that he doesn't desire. But I can see how he would turn that around in his mind to just another way he's not measuring up.

Oh, and then throw in health issues with his equipment and he's got a whole festering stew of reasons to feel inadequate, I would guess.

I feel like this argument was actually a good thing. In previous conversations he wasn't hearing me and also not particularly communicating with me (avoiding). Sadly, it took things welling up to the point of explosion before we gained any understanding of each other. 

I might be naive...but I'm feeling cautiously hopeful. I'm totally ready to be there for him. Besides, being by his side through this will totally feed into my Quality Time thing and will offer him his Acts of Service


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