# Great marriage... extremely frustrated in bed.



## Cavaleriesoldaat (Sep 20, 2019)

Background:

Met and married while in the Army in 2003 (she was a local civilian). We have 4 kids and a very loving household. Our marriage is rock-solid, especially having endured my combat deployment in 04-05 and the subsequent physical and psychological issues I suffered. For my part, I actively receive treatment for PTSD, which by my wife’s opinion, has been well-controlled for the past couple years. Our marriage is a very brutally honest one, and we share anything and everything. In-fact, we both refer to each other as the other’s best friend, rarely doing anything socially without the other. We are both attractive and fit people. She claims that I am still very attractive to her, and I openly express how attractive she is... all the time. During the day, we are openly flirty and handsy with each other.

The problem:

We used to have sex frequently and where both initiators. Probably about 10 years ago, she initiated less and less and now, extremely rarity does so. I’ve discussed my desire for this openly for years with little affect. Beginning about 3 years ago, the dreaded excuses began at night, despite our open flirting during the day increasing. Addressing this, she said the kids and chores exhausted her, so I picked-up gradually more of the workload. Every new thing created a temporary spike in our sex life, only to quickly fall back down. When I encouraged her to go back and finish her degree, I was working full-time and took over all household responsibilities, and consciously have her space during the week since she wasn’t getting home from school until after 10. When she graduated and started working this past January, I continued doing 75% of the household chores so she would have the energy for intimacy... no luck. So, we talked about it 3 months ago and she said it was because I was coming to bed too late. So, I started coming to bed an hour before she goes to sleep and would then resume my chores afterwards. This worked for about two weeks where we had great sex. Then it stopped again. About a month ago, we discussed this again, and she again, she responded for a week or so and now two weeks later, we are back to me having to pleasure myself. 

My problem lays in the fact that I have an extremely high sex drive and I associate sex with connecting/intimacy. Worse still, I honestly find my wife to be the sexiest woman I know, so when we aren’t having sex, I have to avoid even looking at her much or I risk triggering that desire (I don’t have that problem with other women). 

Her problem lays in the fact that she was very promiscuous before we met where as I had one sex partner before her (I tried to wait until marriage). She says that she does not find sex to be an intimate act. For her, snuggling, each other’s company, going out together, etc fulfill her intimacy needs... and we do those things... all the time. And yes, we’ve discussed this as well.

So, trying to sum this up; I feel like I’m doing everything right - she even claims I am. I can just blow this off because I haven’t figured out a way to smother my desire - porn makes me feel like **** and resentful towards her - sex is powerful intimacy. So frustrated, lost, and even depressed over this. I’m out of ideas. Help!


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

As you've found out, you're pursuing an ever-moving milestone. Stop chasing the carrot. The issue is that your wife doesn't value sex, and you doing more housework isn't going to change that.

My recommendation would be therapy. According to her, she has issues regarding her past, and needs to talk to a professional who can help her sort out those issues.

Though it suddenly rearing it's head 6 years into your marriage is kinda strange. New relationship energy usually dissipates quite a while before then. So it's entirely possible there's something else going on.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

How ridiculous would it be if you said any of these things:

- I don't feel like supporting the household anymore, so I'm just going to spend my time on hobbies rather than working
- I don't feel like parenting anymore, so I'm going to ignore the kids
- I don't feel like communicating anymore, so I'm not going to talk to you anymore
- I don't feel like fidelity anymore, so I'm going to hook up with other women
...

All that is crazy, because those are all things that are major parts of marriage. If they are removed, the marriage will suffer.

While I can understand there are reasons for her decline in desire, it doesn't mean that it's okay to just take sex out of the marriage. She needs to first understand that sex must be part of a healthy marriage. Her attitude needs to be "Sex is part of marriage, so what do I need for it to happen." rather than "I don't feel like it. It's up to you to do everything to fix it."

I would recommend you go tell her you view the lack of sex as a critical problem and that you want to go to counselling to see what can be done to address it. When you look for counsellors, find one who has the viewpoint that sex is a foundational part of the marriage and won't let her off the hook or make excuses as to why it shouldn't be part of your marriage. Hearing the message from a neutral 3rd party can help her understand how important it is.

It sounds like you guys have a great marriage. Hopefully she'll feel comfortable enough to discuss things and start thinking of what it will take to change how she feels about it. Listen to what she says she needs and be accommodating if it's reasonable. But the important thing is to be working towards her understanding sex is not optional and that she can actively work towards creating environments where she can enjoy it. Also keep in mind that this is a tough problem to solve and may take a long time. It's best handled in a loving manner. The more attacked she feels, the more she may retreat. It sounds like you're a great husband, so hopefully it will work out.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Thank you for your service from a retired Soldier. 

So...how has doing more worked for you?

Furthermore, how do you feel about yourself having done more, only for it to result in her moving the goalposts...again?

Lastly, there is no negotiating desire. Remember this the next time you think about trying to 'deal' with her. 

Stop trying to push a rope. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So no offense but maybe you need to up your game. 



> Her problem lays in the fact that she was very promiscuous before we met where as I had one sex partner before her (I tried to wait until marriage). She says that she does not find sex to be an intimate act. For her, snuggling, each other’s company, going out together, etc fulfill her intimacy needs... and we do those things... all the time. And yes, we’ve discussed this as well.


This stands out. Sounds like she liked sex before she married you? Now she has no interest at all? I no this is a very difficult and painful thing to contemplate but if you are really serious about fixing this you at least have to contemplate that given your limited experience you may need to learn how to be a better lover. I hate writing it but you have to address all angles. Does she O? How about your seduction game? Maybe she likes a different style then you are used to. Maybe you need to be more aggressive or less. Maybe you need to be more romantic or more bold. You should have a very frank talk with her about this and tell her to tell you the truth. If this is the case there is no reason you can't get better, but it will take communication and you both working at it together. 

Continuing the difficult questions that my post on this tread seems to have lead to. Are you sure you are as compatible as you think, at least maybe you are just not sexually compatible? I think it's generally going to be hard when one partner is very sexually active and the other waited for marriage. I think right away there is a good possibility that the mindset around sexuality is very different. Seems you have discovered this. As someone who also had a low count and only had a sex with women whom I loved I know one of your issues was there are not a lot of women out there who did the same or feel the same way. But that doesn't make you any less compatible. 

The other thing I would say about that is why was she so active. Now of course there are healthy people who have sex because they enjoy it like working out or whatever, but if you read on here or other sites may people, especially when they are young use sex as a kind of currency for attention or status. I don't think that is healthy and very often can lead to a kind of a tainted feeling around sex. They associate the way the aftermath of that sex as currency made them feel with the act itself. That may also be your wife's issue, but I would be careful how you bring that up if you choose to discuss it. If that is the case she will have to learn to disassociate the bad experience with the act itself. I think that is going to be a hard thing to do. Just because you had a lot of sex that doesn't make you a healthy sexual person as seems to be the prevailing wisdom, often it's a sign you are sexually unhealthy. 

I think in the long run think your mindset needs to change. If you consider sex and physical intimacy to be a primary part of marriage then it doesn't sound like you have a "great marriage". You might have a good partnership, but if you are not having sex in marriage you could have that with one of your friends. 

Finally it were me and particularly due to the delicate nature of this topic I would not post a selfie as my avatar.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

> Her problem lays in the fact that she was very promiscuous before we met where as I had one sex partner before her (I tried to wait until marriage).





> This stands out. Sounds like she liked sex before she married you? Now she has no interest at all? I knownthis is a very difficult and painful thing to contemplate but if you are really serious about fixing this you at least have to contemplate that given your limited experience you may need to learn how to be a better lover.


QFT. She probably isn’t very interested in sex with you. You need to improve your skills. Check out the advice by @StarFires on this site about techniques for cunnilingus and giving your wife orgasms through PIV sex (ie, hitting the A spot. G spot, O spot, etc). These are skills you can learn.

If she was promiscuous, she is probably HD. Even if she is LD, she shouldn’t oppose having sex with you if it means a lot to you AND if she’s getting a lot of pleasure from it. The most likely problem is that you suck in bed. And she may not even be able to explain what you are doing wrong (or failing to do right), but there are techniques you can learn. Stop listening to her dodges about housework and improve your bedroom skills.


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## Cavaleriesoldaat (Sep 20, 2019)

The quality of the sex has never been the issue. As I said, we used to have sex a lot and are brutally honest with each other, ie we openly and readily discuss sexual desires, etc (rather we used to when she was still interested).


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

You have to keep all options open, but sometimes she does just lose her desire and there's not an obvious reason. We've had women here saying they lost their libido and they have no clue what happened. Technique is always a possibility, but then I would expect her to be saying you need to be doing this and that to me. Any idea of how often she's "taking matters into her own hand"?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I would like to suggest a few books that really helped me in my sex starved marriage.

The first was MW Davis, the Sex Starved Marriage. This will show you how you need to "Get a Life" which is code words for building your own confidence and self esteem. The best companion book is Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy. It will explain the same concepts from a slightly different perspective.

Another good book is Chapman's the 5 Languages of Love. One of the things I learned was my wife and I were telling each other that we loved each other each day, but didn't speak the same love languages and didn't hear our partner's message. I finally learned how to speak my wife's love language and that made a world of difference in that she felt loved and cherished again, which she hadn't in years.

The last books I would recommend would be David Schnarch Intimacy and Desire or the Crucible. This is an eye opening perspective on how couples are always emotionally pulling and pushing each other due to different growth. It is also about how compromise and negotiations are all about marriage. It doesn't matter whether it is what to have for dinner, what to watch on TV, how to parent kids, or sex between the two of you. There is no right or wrong, there is only what works for both members of the couple.

Good luck and thanks for your service.

If you have a "great marriage" and a lovely family don't mess it up. If after reading the books and trying some of their advice you don't feel you are making progress, then get some professional counseling. If necessary find a marriage counselor who is also a certified sex therapist. Part of what you said was that your wife may have had issues with her previous sexual experiences that spill over emotionally into your marriage. She might need to work through some issues, then again, I suspect that you too need to work through some issues.


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## Cavaleriesoldaat (Sep 20, 2019)

I asked and she said “not in a along time.”


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## Cavaleriesoldaat (Sep 20, 2019)

Good and Sincere advise, Young at Heart


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Being handsy is not necessarily being emotionally intimate. How much effort do you put into the non physical side of your relationship? 
Sounds like she needs to talk about what she wants from the marriage also, get her to open up.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Immediately redo the home workload. Split it in half. 

Stop touching her all day. 

You’re crowding her in a soft, loving but desire killing way. 

You are preventing her from having any room to feel desire. 




Cavaleriesoldaat said:


> The quality of the sex has never been the issue. As I said, we used to have sex a lot and are brutally honest with each other, ie we openly and readily discuss sexual desires, etc (rather we used to when she was still interested).


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

From what you said, her excuses are just that -- excuses. You REALLY need to talk with her to find out what is happening.
DO NOT accept, I'm tired, The kids are too much, the job is too demanding, etc.
WHY doesn't she want to have sex anymore?

Has she been to a Dr to eliminate actual physical causes?


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Dump her ass......she's not going to warm up to you......


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Betrayedone said:


> Dump her ass......she's not going to warm up to you......


Dreadful advise to a man who has a good marriage, 4 children and loves his wife.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

The first realization required for you to move forward is to realize that "extremely frustrated in bed" means that it is _not _a "Great marriage... ."

I'm also skeptical about something from the past not manifesting until 6 years in. If there was something holding her back, it would have held her back much sooner if not right from the beginning. 

4 kids may have something to do with it. That takes a lot of mom energy which can leave very little wife energy. But as you've noted, helping around the house doesn't fix anything. 4 kids may still have something to do with it... inasmuch as she's now got what she wants and you, having already done your part (sperm donor) and continue to do your part (breadwinner), you may well be superfluous as a lover at this point.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I am a great believer in compromise. Do you usually want sex every night or nearly every night? Could you ask her how often realistically she thinks you should have sex? Say for example she says once a week, then settle for twice a week. 

Have you actually asked her honestly why she has lost interest?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Was she completely open about her past, prior to your engagement? Is there a chance she wants to forget that past and sex is reminding her of it? Not that any of this is familiar to me; asking for a friend.

She may need some IC in addition to MC. I can’t honestly say if the IC should come first or simultaneously. I will say it’s way better that you are dealing with this now, than decades down the road. I’ll also suggest the possibility she’s depressed, without being obvious.

I’ll add that her past might be a sort of PTSD issue itself.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

After a complete physical exam and exploration of possible side effects of meds for her, I would suggest MC/sex therapy. If you have a toothache, you go to a dentist, so you have a sex ache and need a trained person to help. Since she is ok without sex, you are gonna have to be in charge of this new adventure.

If you let this grow and fester, there are serious problems in your future. You did not know how often she masturbated, so there may be other things you do not know. The recommended books are likely to be helpful.


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## Cavaleriesoldaat (Sep 20, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> Was she completely open about her past, prior to your engagement? Is there a chance she wants to forget that past and sex is reminding her of it? Not that any of this is familiar to me; asking for a friend.
> 
> She may need some IC in addition to MC. I can’t honestly say if the IC should come first or simultaneously. I will say it’s way better that you are dealing with this now, than decades down the road. I’ll also suggest the possibility she’s depressed, without being obvious.
> 
> I’ll add that her past might be a sort of PTSD issue itself.


Now this is the direction I’ve been thinking. 

Before marriage? No. After, because of my prompting, yes. Now, she will casually talk about it to me at random. I’m not the jealous type accept when we are in-between and I’ve been shot-down, then it bothers me but I honestly don’t think she has caught on to that.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

How often are you guys having sex now?

How often would be your ideal?

How old are your kids? Are they involved in a bunch of activities?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Cavaleriesoldaat said:


> Now this is the direction I’ve been thinking.
> 
> Before marriage? No. After, because of my prompting, yes. Now, she will casually talk about it to me at random. I’m not the jealous type accept when we are in-between and I’ve been shot-down, then it bothers me but I honestly don’t think she has caught on to that.


Did it seem like she was holding anything back (before your prompting) or there was just never an occasion that it came up? And the label of "promiscuous" comes from her, or you? And the timing of when the sex kinda stopped... was it after some of the information about her past came out?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Don't discount my advice about her relationship TO SEX. I have just seen it too often. If she was using sex in her youth to get attention and some form of esteem from men then she may have some issues with it. And that can be reinforced particularly with how you relate to her regarding sex. If she feels like you are just using her like those men did that will surely make her uninterested in having sex with you. She may have negative feelings from those youthful encounters and if you have done a lot of demanding that may remind her of how these men treated her. The basic point is you need to talk about this. 

But I would emphasize that sex for you is a way for you to feel close to her, not get an orgasm. I mean the point is you can get an orgasm with your hand and frankly it's a lot less work, so obviously it's more to you then that. Unfortunately her mindset as you say, of seeing sex as just something to do for fun doesn't leave you a lot of options. If all it is is fun like going for a jog or something then if she is board with it why bother. Again a risk you take when you marry someone who doesn't see the emotional or bonding aspects of sex. It's sacred nature. How it can be used as a kind of emotional glue in your relationship. 

If it's just like getting coffee then it's about as important as getting coffee. Unfortunately they don't teach you these things when your young.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OP, people may be rushing too soon to conclusions:

Is she on any medication? Birth control? Anti depressants? Both can in some cases cause a huge drop in sex drive.

Any health issues for either of you, including major weight gain?

Is she overloaded with children. Not saying you are not doing your part, but 4 children is a lot even for 2 people to manage. 


I'm suggesting looking at external factor first, then if there are none, think about changes in her attitudes.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

One thing I’ve noticed in my own marriage is that the older the kids get the more negative triggering happens. We used to talk about sex openly now it’s the #1 thing she talks around. The kids are at the point in their lives where her own family imploded. We went 18 years and one seemingly unrelated event one day with our daughter and my wife had a panic attack about something that happened to her in middle school.

There are five things you’re up against...

1) the type of sex a woman has with a husband can be waaaaay different than a one-night stand or a bad boy-fling. Part of that is shame associated with a flying freak flag with a spouse. Some women think... “uggg married people don’t do that.... get over it”

2) the domestic/erotic dichotomy that Ester Perel about. Women don’t find sure-thing, domesticated men as something that gets their motor going. Period. There is no sense of losing it or having to compete against other women. It then becomes like “going for coffee” as it was alluded to earlier. Sex is always there when SHE needs it.

3) Shame, trauma, inner critic. Sometimes women shut down either out of shame or past trauma that’s been triggered/hidden. My wife had a panic attack during sex when I said “boy it’d be nice if you focused on me for awhile” Lastly, the inertial critic telling them they’re aren’t good enough will shut them down as well. That can come from porn, TV, Cosmo, friends... you name it.

4) Hormones/low energy - kids and hormones will drain any sexuality out of woman. Especially the latter.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Comfort, familiarity, stress, kids.... they can all kill the wife's libido. They need that oomph. They need that energy/anxiety they felt early in the relationship. There's a Lover vs. Provider dynamic that you need to learn about. You have to jump back into the Lover things that you used to do prior to becoming husband and dad. You did it before, you can do it again. It takes some know-how, patience and hard work.

Give my book a try. It was literally written for guys in your exact predicament: *The Dead Bedroom Fix*


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> If she was promiscuous, she is probably HD.


I don't agree with this. Most of the women that I knew that were very promiscuous weren't that way because they loved the sex. They seemed to be emotionally needy women that desperately needed the feeling that they were loved. I could easily see that, if they were in a loving and stable relationship, they might be totally disinterested in sex because it wasn't necessary anymore.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

OP - Be forewarned. It seems very rare that a LD spouse meaningfully changes in a lasting way. Don't give up without a fight, but know that you face challenging odds.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

FalCod said:


> OP - Be forewarned. It seems very rare that a LD spouse meaningfully changes in a lasting way. Don't give up without a fight, but know that you face challenging odds.


Yet I find hope in the fact, if it's the case ,that the LD spouse was not always LD. If a person can change once, why is it inconceivable they cannot change again? We talk about LD spouses suddenly becoming extraordinarily HD for a short time via hysterical bonding. The possibility of long-term change exists. It may be very small, but it does exist. And even if the spouse remains LD, and LD spouse can still enjoy what sex brings to the relationship, in terms of closeness and comfort for the HD spouse. But it has to be worked on. It's not easy, and it has to accept a role for sex in his or her life that seems completely at odds with how they *think* their spouse sees sex. That may be the biggest obstacle.

Perhaps there should be a 5 Love Languages just for sex? Of course, it would be tempting to reduce it to just 2, HD & LD, but I think that very simplification is what greatly reduces our chances of having a satisfying sex life in our marriages.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

David Schnarch in his book Intimacy and Desire discusses how the LD partner can change (if they want to) with the help (through exercises) from their HD partner. It is pretty strong stuff, and many LD partners would be too afraid to make the change.

I have an LD partner and we have struggled for 48 years. With the help of a marriage counselor/sex therapist and a couple of additional marriage counselors, we made minor progress. The Schnarch book promises hope for me (the HD parnter), but it scares my wife and she has only been able to do some of the things. Still it is progress.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

For you: No More Mr Nice Guy, by R. Glover.

For her: Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, by L. Schlessinger.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I am a great believer in compromise. Do you usually want sex every night or nearly every night? Could you ask her how often realistically she thinks you should have sex? Say for example she says once a week, then settle for twice a week.
> 
> Have you actually asked her honestly why she has lost interest?


I guess you gotta do what you gotta do, but I don't see women being so understanding if the tables were to be turned.

Husband: I don't feel like kissing you, or speaking to you every night.
Wife: Oh, well how about we compromise and you talk to me twice a week?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BioFury said:


> I guess you gotta do what you gotta do, but I don't see women being so understanding if the tables were to be turned.
> 
> Husband: I don't feel like kissing you, or speaking to you every night.
> Wife: Oh, well how about we compromise and you talk to me twice a week?


A lot of marriage is about compromise. In the ops case it may just save his marriage. 

As for me, I don't see why a LD spouse cant still have sex when the HD spouse wants to regardless of how they feel. In the end pleasing our spouse is a choice and decision not a feeling. 
This is assuming that the HD spouse is understanding of the times when their spouse is ill, or going though a very hard time for whatever reason, or has just had a baby etc.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

BioFury said:


> I guess you gotta do what you gotta do, but I don't see women being so understanding if the tables were to be turned.
> 
> Husband: I don't feel like kissing you, or speaking to you every night.
> Wife: Oh, well how about we compromise and you talk to me twice a week?


Too funny.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> A lot of marriage is about compromise. In the ops case it may just save his marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who would they have had the baby from, if there wasn’t any sex? 

Interesting you say about wanting to have sex being a decision rather than a feeling. My feeling is that a lot of husbands would find it demeaning, if they knew this was the case.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> Who would they have had the baby from, if there wasn’t any sex?
> 
> Interesting you say about wanting to have sex being a decision rather than a feeling. My feeling is that a lot of husbands would find it demeaning, if they knew this was the case.
> 
> ...


After the birth. 
I think its awesome that a spouse would not refuse their spouse sex even if they didn't always 'feel' like it. Its shows unselfishness and love and that marriage isn't always about me me me, but you and us.
If we never did anything we didn't feel like doing then little would get done.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Nope! I have seen it before. Her mind is with one of her formers. It happens more than the ladies like to say.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Cavaleriesoldaat said:


> ...*She says that she does not find sex to be an intimate act.* For her, snuggling, each other’s company, going out together, etc fulfill her intimacy needs...


This is the part that jumps out at me. *She does not attribute sexual desire as something that is loving.* Based on your comments about her past, it is possible she has experienced a lot of chemistry with someone that wanted nothing emotionally to do with her immediately afterwards. Or perhaps she has experienced herself towards someone in that she just wanted sex and nothing else. 

I felt the same as you and here is a post I once made about it https://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/335065-purpose-why-men-desire-sex-spouse.html

The thread blew up, but the gist of it gets into different views on carnal lust in marriage versus an emotional desire to love and feel loved. Some people strongly believe the two can not be mixed and others would disagree.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

There's a lot to be said about the restrictions of touching her and hugging her all day, as sad as it is to say, perhaps it's best to pull back.

She's getting her closeness quotient met by you, and not reaching back when you reach out. It's simple.

But, easy to say, hard to negotiate the waters in this circumstance. 

It's not uncommon, btw, but without a course correction the resentment builds up first one then the other and before recognized a whole new set of problems arise.

Hang in there!


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

badsanta said:


> This is the part that jumps out at me. *She does not attribute sexual desire as something that is loving.* Based on your comments about her past, *it is possible she has experienced a lot of chemistry with someone that wanted nothing emotionally to do with her immediately afterwards.* Or perhaps she has experienced herself towards someone in that she just wanted sex and nothing else.


I'm here to tell you there's far more truth to your bolded section than most could imagine. She could have been looking for something wonderful physically, and it just didn't happen. And because she didn't act thrilled about it, the guy decided nothing to see here, move along, he got what he could. So he doesn't even return calls for a few days. So now, if there had been a chance of sex being associated with emotional closeness before, that door has just been slammed shut. She's still maybe looking for something wonderful in the physical side of sex, so she keeps trying, but it just isn't happening. 

So now she finds the guy she's going to marry, but he doesn't know about the past that she's bringing with her. He doesn't understand that he's got to approach intimacy with her in an entirely different way. That he's got to convince her that he's not just another one in a series, but that this will be truly different because he knows and he cares for her and he's going to make sure that emotional needs, his and hers, are met first, and the point isn't a fantastic orgasm but rather a closeness shared with no other person. But that's not what happened. Instead, the poor guy doesn't know he's running into a buzz-saw. His wife's unfortunate experience, and it could have been JUST ONE, can poison the future if not brought up. And by unfortunate experience, I don't mean having sex. I mean having sex, or a sexual experience, that was presumed to be special, but it fell flat AND the guy dumped her afterward. 

I think this happens more often than people believe. Could be the case for the OP. People often assume that any conversion in a woman's sexual appetite, once married, comes from the move from excitement & fun & danger to long-term stability, both emotional and financial.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Step one: You will never nice your way back into having more sex. Chores etc around the house go to 50/50.
Step two: Don't focus on her, focus on you. Work out, pick up hobbies, improve yourself. Do man stuff around the house. You'll be more attractive to her.


If she is actually tired all the time, she might have low iron or b12. Low chance this is part of it, but should be checked.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Cavaleriesoldaat said:


> Background:
> 
> Met and married while in the Army in 2003 (she was a local civilian). We have 4 kids and a very loving household. Our marriage is rock-solid, especially having endured my combat deployment in 04-05 and the subsequent physical and psychological issues I suffered. For my part, I actively receive treatment for PTSD, which by my wife’s opinion, has been well-controlled for the past couple years. Our marriage is a very brutally honest one, and we share anything and everything. In-fact, we both refer to each other as the other’s best friend, rarely doing anything socially without the other. We are both attractive and fit people. She claims that I am still very attractive to her, and I openly express how attractive she is... all the time. During the day, we are openly flirty and handsy with each other.
> 
> ...


You guys have a lot going for you. It would be nice if she could hop on here and say her side of what's going on because that would complete the dialogue a bit more. 

It's FANTASTIC that you are honest! That's the key and the core of the relationship.

Again, without her on here - as a woman who raised kids - I'm gonna tell you that having kids around is very consuming. 

My hubs (your couple story is very similar to ours) and I had to make a pact not to talk about kids or finances after a certain point in the evening. 

Women are incredible multi-taskers which makes it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for us to shut down all the windows we have open in our brains so that we can re-focus on that it's time for sex.

She does need to completely and utterly get it that you want/need/desire sex daily. I'm assuming what you are saying is that you want/need/desire an O daily. 

She might not have that want/need/desire. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT SHE IS ALL IN ON THE RELATIONSHIP. NOTHING. So, don't let your brain try and make you believe that she's lost desire for you, therefore you are not desirable, therefore you will break up, you'll be alone and then you'll die. See how that stupid thinking works when you say it outloud?

What works for us is that hubs needs to understand that sometimes I don't want or have time for a daily one hour lovemaking session. But, I love him to pieces and 10 minutes I can do every day - with *some* days being more or longer. I won't always have an O in 10 minutes and if we are in agreement that this works for both of us, then that's the agreement.

Obviously, there are exceptions for being sick, a tragic/upsetting event or *genuinely* tired - because it really does happen.

What would you guys think of that?

Also, my hubs has that problem of looking at me and wanting to screw all the time - he's shared a few of the instances where, like, we were dressed to go out on a date and he got so turned on, he masturbated before we left. I've never forgotten he told me that - pretty hot.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Nope! I have seen it before. Her mind is with one of her formers. It happens more than the ladies like to say.


Oh, crst-on-a-stick...

A person can't control what thoughts fly through their minds during sex. Even one of our therapists who had a divinity degree and was very spiritual (he's a marriage counselor) said that stuff floats through your mind when you're wanting an O. That doesn't mean you are wishing for a different person to be with!

I get pretty dirty thinking during sex. I'm not going: "Ah, dah'ling, the sparkle in your eyes is so lovely..." - I doubt I could write what I'm thinking here because it would just be a bunch of asterisks. 

And I want him to be saying a bunch of stuff. I can't even write this without getting hot. I'm sure you don't mean what you said in a shaming way.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> After the birth.
> I think its awesome that a spouse would not refuse their spouse sex even if they didn't always 'feel' like it. Its shows unselfishness and love and that marriage isn't always about me me me, but you and us.
> If we never did anything we didn't feel like doing then little would get done.


I gotta give it to @Diana7 here.

She didn't say have a semblance of sex by just laying there for H, she did say have sex; I'll give her the benefit of of believing she means good and passionate sex, that it wouldn't be passive-aggressive starfish sex.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I gotta give it to @Diana7 here.
> 
> She didn't say have a semblance of sex by just laying there for H, she did say have sex; I'll give her the benefit of of believing she means good and passionate sex, that it wouldn't be passive-aggressive starfish sex.


Yes I meant good sex, not something done grudgingly or with resentment.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

happiness27 said:


> Oh, crst-on-a-stick...
> 
> A person can't control what thoughts fly through their minds during sex. Even one of our therapists who had a divinity degree and was very spiritual (he's a marriage counselor) said that stuff floats through your mind when you're wanting an O. That doesn't mean you are wishing for a different person to be with!
> 
> ...


Ok we cant stop things popping into our heads, but we can control what stays there. Our minds are 100% under our control.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Yes I meant good sex, not something done grudgingly or with resentment.


See? Kudos to @Diana7. And I believe her. 👍👍


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Ok we cant stop things popping into our heads, but we can control what stays there. Our minds are 100% under our control.


Yeah, you're right.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Yes I meant good sex, not something done grudgingly or with resentment.


If a person is doing sex grudgingly and/or with resentment, that's a passive-aggressive message...maybe?

It's like, I'm angry at you about something so I'm going to withhold enhancing or participating happily in your pleasure. 

So...what are the possible messages there by the grudgingly submitting spouse? 

1.) I don't want to have sex but if I don't, you'll be angry with me and want to fight about it.
2.) The foreplay is too short so I'm not going to enjoy this, therefore, I would like to just get this over with as quickly as possible.
3.) We're fighting and, to you, sex is going to make things better but to me, that's not true.

I don't know - ^^^^ I just made some stuff up ^^^^ 

As long as we're constructively exploring what is happening here, what do you guys think about that?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

badsanta said:


> This is the part that jumps out at me. *She does not attribute sexual desire as something that is loving.* Based on your comments about her past, it is possible she has experienced a lot of chemistry with someone that wanted nothing emotionally to do with her immediately afterwards. Or perhaps she has experienced herself towards someone in that she just wanted sex and nothing else.
> 
> I felt the same as you and here is a post I once made about it https://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/335065-purpose-why-men-desire-sex-spouse.html
> 
> The thread blew up, but the gist of it gets into different views on carnal lust in marriage versus an emotional desire to love and feel loved. Some people strongly believe the two can not be mixed and others would disagree.


Not wanting to generalize for "all men" though I believe many are this way;

speaking for myself both carnal and emotional times are common for me, us.

I lean towards carnal at the end mostly, especially after lengthy sessions, sometimes the whole time, and so does DW. And other times it's slower and yet still just as passionate. 

Imho both frames of mind are needed for a complete relationship.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> If a person is doing sex grudgingly and/or with resentment, that's a passive-aggressive message...maybe?
> 
> It's like, I'm angry at you about something so I'm going to withhold enhancing or participating happily in your pleasure.
> 
> ...


Sex grudgingly is poor at best. That is indeed the truth.

Now we still have sex even if we're fighting but that's an agreement we made long ago to still fool around even during a scuffle, and that's never grudge sex, sometimes it's rough and rowdy ❤❤❤ yet we thoroughly enjoy.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Sex grudgingly is poor at best. That is indeed the truth.
> 
> Now we still have sex even if we're fighting but that's an agreement we made long ago to still fool around even during a scuffle, and that's never grudge sex, sometimes it's rough and rowdy ❤❤❤ yet we thoroughly enjoy.


Grudgingly performed sex is a way of (poorly) communicating.

What is a solution? 

There needs to be a list of solutions to this. It just shouldn't happen at all.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Now I don't have that answer. 

My first thought if that happened I'd keep it going, not just PIV, but the whole female anatomy in play just to see what can be made to happen, and have my way any way I wanted to, while listening to some blues music.

But you've hit on the magic mystery question. 😉😉😉


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Now I don't have that answer.
> 
> My first thought if that happened I'd keep it going, not just PIV, but the whole female anatomy in play just to see what can be made to happen, and have my way any way I wanted to, while listening to some blues music.
> 
> But you've hit on the magic mystery question. 😉😉😉


...or the mystery solution.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Ok we cant stop things popping into our heads, but we can control what stays there. Our minds are 100% under our control.



I wish....
And who or where is this ‘us’ that supposedly has control over our minds?
Doesn’t God have control over our minds? Or devil. I forgot which one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Sex grudgingly is poor at best.



How can you tell? If you turn her around?

Though it’s true..sometimes I look at her ass and it looks so passive aggressive, that I just want to exorcise the devil out of it, by spanking it really hard  



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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Passive aggressive in the bedroom is truly the sh*ttiest thing a partner can do. We are all our most vulnerable having sex - and that is truly a cruel thing to do to another person. You'd have to really hate them.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

happiness27 said:


> So...what are the possible messages there by the grudgingly submitting spouse?
> 
> 1.) I don't want to have sex but if I don't, you'll be angry with me and want to fight about it.
> 2.) The foreplay is too short so I'm not going to enjoy this, therefore, I would like to just get this over with as quickly as possible.
> 3.) We're fighting and, to you, sex is going to make things better but to me, that's not true.


Let me add one:

4) I was sexually abused or raped in the past. I have ongoing PTSD about sex. I do not want to admit that because (i) I do not want to feel "tainted", (ii) I do not want to feel guilty about not seeking help to deal with it, and/or (iii) I do not want to give you ammunition to use against me. So I will keep you in the dark about an important aspect of my sexuality, with the aim of distracting you from the real reason I only ever grudgingly submit and am never enthusiastic.



happiness27 said:


> Passive aggressive in the bedroom is truly the sh*ttiest thing a partner can do. We are all our most vulnerable having sex - and that is truly a cruel thing to do to another person. You'd have to really hate them.


Or be really really scared about admitting the truth.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> I wish....
> And who or where is this ‘us’ that supposedly has control over our minds?
> Doesn’t God have control over our minds? Or devil. I forgot which one.
> 
> ...


We have control over our minds.


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