# I feel sick from wife's EA



## Rocket Skates76

Man posting this makes me nervous, but nonetheless. I feel sick like I already know what the answers may be. Ok so, my wife and I were teenage sweethearts who went 
our seperate ways and married other people. Ten years ago, through the magic of Myspace, we reconnected...flirted, met up, and you get the picture.
I left my wife to re-connect with her; she left her husband as well (although it turned out he was already involved in an affair). Ten years have passed and we have 4 beautiful kids as well. We have gone through
some rough patches, but nothing I think like this.
So, let me start by saying she is an fun, exciting, loving personality. Has always expressed great love for me. I on the other hand am somewhat the opposite...reserved I guess.
She has always been so devoted! But almost borderline smothering and clingy as well, which would really be my only gripe. But she's BEAUTIFUL (seriously) so I have to count myself lucky I guess.
For what it's worth, She was basically the only child of a successful ministry family, she put out a couple albums in the 90's...but yes, for the past 8 years it has been
life stuck at the house raising kids while I went to work.
Her previous marriage lasted 10 years. She once told me a fellow she worked with at her father's church invited her to meet him at a motel. According to her,
she went there, they briefly hugged, he kissed her and she ran home and confessed to her husband. I believed that...I knew no other side of her.
Now, I'll keep this short. A year and half ago January 2nd, 2016, she woke me up frantic. I was in a daze. She confessed she had been chatting with an ex-boyfriend
on Facebook for a month. She said she felt bad, and broke it off with him after Xmas, he went crazy and was threatening to come shoot her (He lived 5 hrs away). She went on
to say she sent him a revealing picture of her posing topless the prior week but nothing else really serious. I was floored. Thought maybe I was dreaming. 
Never, this cant be real! She also told me she was only chatting with him because I never showed her love or attention etc etc. I believed it. I had no plan 
for this. The next couple months I struggled, bad. She really didnt want to discuss what happened without telling me about my mistakes (Years ago) and how they drove her
to this. We would yell and cry and talk. The truth (I guess) trickled over that time AND she pointed out she confessed to it to me so wasnt hiding anything; they started innocent texting; Never talked about sexual stuff; talked some 
crap about me; and sent him a naked pic. to which he simply said she was beautiful. I believed it. I didnt feel right though; She couldnt have been making plans to meet up with him
could she? I found a motel in his town mapquested. She denied it saying she simply wanted to see where his town was at, it chose that particular spot. I believed her.
He sent an email to our family account telling her the hotel reservations (a different one in a nearby big city) and plans were all BS and SHE BROKE HIS HEART AND 
strung him along, using him. She explained he was a meth head and was just trying to stir up trouble. I believed her. I wanted to believe her. Let me tell you, our 
Email box after that stayed CLEAN even deleted emails.
Oh BTW, the topless pic she sent to him, she sent the same one to me the day I was released from the hospital fighting a very serious infection. I wonder who got the pic
first? Fast forward 6 months, she's in a new band. I'm a silent basket case. A younger guy, late 20's, the guitarist, And her I find are texting each other like
30-60 times a day. I found that out by secretly looking at our bill online. So I snuck her outside one night, and sure enough, MUCH of their texting was deleted.
I went crazy and left for a day and a half. She said nothing bad was said, he simply would compliment her beauty for her age in an effort to build up her self-esteem.
She would NOT press him for the deleted text. He sent one or two screenshots of them out with the rest of the band texting each other basic stuff. When I wanted 
more, she said he had just gotten a new phone so the other stuff was gone. I believed her. I made peace with them both and was sorry for almost breaking up the band.
He has sense left the band. She would never admit the amount of texts were alarming, they were friends, I was stupid for reading too much into things. I kinda 
believed her. He seemed to be a good guy as well.
Here's my issue. My gut is killing me. She sleeps on top of her phone. She is on it constantly. I'm angry and kinda feel played.
That's 3 times an EA has happened in 20 years and of course she confirms this. She is still so loving and needy of me. I dont know what 
I'm trying to say I guess.


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## Lostme

You defiantly need to listen to your gut, and you already know the answer.

Have you asked to see her phone? if not ask her and if she says NO then she is hiding another affair from you.

You need to make the tough decision to stay or go, if you stay get into counseling together and tell her she has to be 100 percent transparent, which includes giving you all passwords, you getting to check her phone when ever you want. find out who she is cheating with this time and put a stop to it.


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## Marc878

You are very gullible and naive. Get the phone and do a deleted text message recovery on it. Many systems available like Fonelab, etc

You don't ask her you tell her.


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## Rocket Skates76

I agree I think maybe I just wanted to believe her. She is extremely adept at acting possibly. 
I have snuck out at night with her phone before several times. You just have to hope part of it is exposed to grab it. 
She doesn't text as much. It's more Messenger stuff that can permanently be deleted. And there is no trace of really anything when I sneak a peak. 
I'm trying to deny the thought she's a pro at this. And it's just me being neurotic.


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## arbitrator

*Homework Assignment: Look up the terms "trickle truth" and "iceberg". See exactly how they both apply in your own particular case!

And for the record, it's no state secret that the vast majority of cheating couples covertly meet up at motels to do a tad more than "just hugging!"*


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## EleGirl

Does she talk much on her phone? A lot of people who cheat use their car as a private phone booth while they drive around.

Get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and hide it in her car up under the front seat using adhesive backed Velcro to secure it. Some people buy two. One to have in the car and one to have so that they can listen to whatever might have been recorded. They just swap them out every day or two.

If you do this and get recordings that are upsetting, make sure that you do not confront her right away. Instead come here and we can help you come up with a plan of action.

You married a woman who you knew had a history of cheating. This is how she deals with the disappointment in her relationships.

Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It's a quick read and will give you a good plan of action.


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## Rubix Cubed

Besides the VAR mentioned above ( which is a must) ,look into a keylogger on her phone and computer.


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## Thor

Check out the thread on gathering Standard Evidence.

The standard advice is first to stop saying anything to her that shows you are suspicious. You want her to let her guard down and make mistakes, if she is having an affair of some sort.

Next, install a Voice Activated Recorder in her car, and one in the house if there is a room where she makes phone calls. Chances are she talks on the phone to these men while driving her car. Or, she talks to a girl friend about these guys. The VAR in the car is one of the most powerful tools you have to get the real truth.

Install good spyware on her phone to capture all the messages.

If she uses a family computer (desktop or laptop), install a keylogger. If she is chatting online on the computer, you can get all of it with a good keylogger.

Be sure you understand how to install spy apps on her model of phone and on the computer before you try it. You want to understand all the steps ahead of time so you can do it quickly.

Search her car carefully, including all the little compartments, spare tire area, under the seats, glove box, door pockets, etc. You're looking for anything that doesn't make sense. A cigarette butt if she doesn't smoke. A hotel key card, a condom wrapper, a pair of her panties, a secret cell phone, etc.

Also search her dresser, night stand, and closet. Be sure to put everything back exactly as you found it. If she is having a physical affair there may be evidence. Check inside the pockets of clothing hanging in her closet, inside boots, etc.

Review all the phone records, bank accounts, and credit card statements. You're looking for gas purchases somewhere that makes no sense with her normal routine, bar charges, hotel charges, restaurants not near where she would normally go, etc. You can reverse look up phone numbers to find out whose it is. There are some pay services which reportedly do a good job, but first use the free search engines. I think you need to put the number in quotes, like "(123) 456-7890" to get a good web search. Be aware that many people have cell phones which are in someone else's name on the account. Jane and Joe have a family account in just Joe's name, so Jane's phone looks like it belongs to Joe. So beware of that and don't jump to conclusions too quickly.


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## EleGirl

Rubix Cubed said:


> Besides the VAR mentioned above ( which is a must) ,look into a keylogger on her phone and computer.


Webwatcher is a good keylogger because it sends the data files to a website. So once installed, you don't even have to touch her phone or computer to find out what she's up to.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I left my wife to re-connect with her; she left her husband as well





Rocket Skates76 said:


> She has always been so devoted!


Do the two quotes above not seem somewhat inconsistent?




Rocket Skates76 said:


> According to her, she went there, they briefly hugged, he kissed her and she ran home and confessed to her husband.


Highly doubtful, but even if true, still more evidence that she's not reliable. 

It's understandable you've got a miserable gut, and I'm sorry you're experiencing such pain, but none of this should be a surprise to you. It's also worth noting that her first marriage lasted 10 years (before she ditched him to run off with you) and your current marriage at her now stands at 10 years. Shoulda' seen this coming. Since you also ditched your wife to run off with this one, some would even say the karma train paid you a visit as well. 

You've received some good advice from other posters. Do what you need to do to resolve the situation... and take care of yourself.


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## Rocket Skates76

I have read a lot of the evidence gathering post etc on this site. I agree it is all great stuff. The issue is besides twice a week band practices she really dosent get out too much and when she does, she wants me to go w her. Is that Atypical? 
I did install a key logger couple weeks ago. It's almost like she knew. 
Part of me still goes back to "maybe this is all in my head". 
That's why I came to ya'll. Before I go deeper. 
From my original post does it seem like legit trouble up ahead? What about her past?
You don't know her but I guess if it walks like a duck....


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## jsmart

Well with your history, it's no surprise that she's unfaithful. If they cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.

She's on that phone because it has evidence of her actions. You better get Dr Phone to recover text and IMs. You should demand access to EVERYTHING: phone, laptop, tablets, email , and social media. Anything less is unacceptable. 

I also strongly advise you velcro a VAR under the passenger seat of her car. You can quickly gather evidence that way. If she's not talking to OM, she'll be talking to some friend that she confides in. They always have one.

For a married mother of 4 to be sending pics of her breast to a guy she barely knows, tells me she's pretty wild. That pic was to tied OM over until they could hook up again. Things must have gone sour, so she confess' so you can clean up her mess. What a piece of work. Putting her 4 kids lives at risk as well. 

I'm guessing she's sexually cheated on you a few times. I'd bet my next paycheck that she played out her ex husband prior to cheating on him with you.


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## EleGirl

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I have read a lot of the evidence gathering post etc on this site. I agree it is all great stuff. The issue is besides twice a week band practices she really dosent get out too much and when she does, she wants me to go w her. Is that Atypical?
> I did install a key logger couple weeks ago. It's almost like she knew.
> Part of me still goes back to "maybe this is all in my head".
> That's why I came to ya'll. Before I go deeper.
> From my original post does it seem like legit trouble up ahead? What about her past?
> You don't know her but I guess if it walks like a duck....


If she ever drives anywhere on her own, it would be good to have a VAR in her vehicle.

Is she home all day by herself, or with the kids? How old are your kids? Are they in school part of the day?

Does she only text? Or is she talking to people on the phone too.


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## farsidejunky

Given how your relationship started, are you surprised?

Guaranteed she went physical with at least one AP. As @GusPolinski says (and I agree), EA+proximity=PA.


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## chillymorn69

Shes a sunk!

Do you really need evidence? If you had evidence would you divorce?

So basicaly she will cheat with amyone who gives her attention!

Pull the plug and get an std test.

Have your kids dna tested.


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## Rocket Skates76

I am not trying to be obstinate and dense but I’m simply having a hard time picturing her having an outright PA with anyone besides what we had initially.

Half of me says we are teenage sweethearts who have a special bond, and we have all the years we were not together. She has always been passionate about us throughout our marriage. Her sex drive is triple mine, so generally she always is the one after me. 
The other half says she may be the worlds greatest actress who can compartmentalize like a mofo. That half of me has been angry for a year and a half, silently waiting for a smoking gun.

The Pic she sent the guy, she has always said it was just a one month facebook fling and she simply liked his attention. He was an ex-boyfriend as well, so there was ‘some’ prior history. I don’t remember her making any trips that December; he lived 5 hours away and he had no vehicle.

I did press her for more info a couple months ago about him and the local fellow (my mind was a wreck) and she did finally admit to briefly talking about sexual positions and running off together and how bad she felt. And the bands guitarist she thinks liked her but she didn’t feel the same so it was just friends texting and showing up to practice to chat and hang out.
Our little girls are 8, 6, and 4. Our son is 2.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I left my wife to re-connect with her; she left her husband as well (although it turned out he was already involved in an affair).


What a magical, romantic tale.



> ....she went there, they briefly hugged, he kissed her and she ran home and confessed to her husband. I believed that...I knew no other side of her.


Of course you knew 'another side' of her. The one where she secretly got involved with you on MySpace while she was married and then left her husband to be with her 'soul mate.'



> Now, I'll keep this short. A year and half ago January 2nd, 2016, she woke me up frantic. I was in a daze. She confessed she had been chatting with an ex-boyfriend on Facebook for a month. She said she felt bad, and broke it off with him after Xmas, he went crazy and was threatening to come shoot her (He lived 5 hrs away). She went on to say she sent him a revealing picture of her posing topless the prior week but nothing else really serious. I was floored. Thought maybe I was dreaming.


I can't understand why you're so surprised. Haven't you ever heard the expression, _*"if they'll do it WITH you, they'll do it TO you?"*_

I've lost count of how many times you wrote in your post, "I believed her" whenever she'd feed you even _more_ of the **** sandwich you've continually been dining on.

I'm going to be honest with you. You deserve every ****ty thing that's happening to you now. This is just the universe evening things out. You screwed around on your wife and left her for your supposed 'soul mate,' and here she is, cheating on you over and over and over and over and over again. You were arrogant enough to think that you could build this 'perfect relationship' on a foundation made of lies, deceit, cheating and heartbreak.

Lastly, you know how ****ty you've been feeling for so long because of the cheater you chose to align yourself with? Well that's how you made your *wife* feel 20 years ago. Ain't so much fun when it's YOU getting the kick to the face, is it?

Well, this is your karma ride. Buckle your seat-belt and keep your hands inside the car - it promises to be a very bumpy ride. Enjoy!


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## Rocket Skates76

I respect that valuation. I understand karma and also sowing and reaping. I have never defended my actions, ever. 
I really could have even skipped that part of my opening post and made myself sound like a saint. But contextually I felt it was important to put that out there. 
I already know I'm a crappy individual. I didn't come here for that. I also didn't come here for comfort. I came for experienced insight. 
Bottom line, I'm tired of brooding and hurting. I've tried to be a P.I. But maybe not good enough. 
IF she has been involved in more than what has been disclosed by her, that would I think be my line in the sand. 
I would love to show up to chat with the two fellows and get their story but mr long distance said he deleted everything from his Facebook and the local guy just kinda faded away.


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## MattMatt

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I respect that valuation. I understand karma and also sowing and reaping. I have never defended my actions, ever.
> I really could have even skipped that part of my opening post and made myself sound like a saint. But contextually I felt it was important to put that out there.
> I already know I'm a crappy individual. I didn't come here for that. I also didn't come here for comfort. I came for experienced insight.
> Bottom line, I'm tired of brooding and hurting. I've tried to be a P.I. But maybe not good enough.
> IF she has been involved in more than what has been disclosed by her, that would I think be my line in the sand.
> I would love to show up to chat with the two fellows and get their story but mr long distance said he deleted everything from his Facebook and the local guy just kinda faded away.


But when someone cheats with you, then cheats on you, it still comes as a terrible shock! Why? Human nature. Folks believe what we want to believe.

But who sends topless pictures to a dangerous drug addict? :scratchhead:

Doesn't add up.


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## SunCMars

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Do the two quotes above not seem somewhat inconsistent?
> 
> 
> 
> Highly doubtful, but even if true, still more evidence that she's not reliable.
> 
> It's understandable you've got a miserable gut, and I'm sorry you're experiencing such pain, but none of this should be a surprise to you. *It's also worth noting that her first marriage lasted 10 years (before she ditched him to run off with you) and your current marriage at her now stands at 10 years. * Shoulda' seen this coming. Since you also ditched your wife to run off with this one, some would even say the karma train paid you a visit as well.
> 
> You've received some good advice from other posters. Do what you need to do to resolve the situation... and take care of yourself.


10 year cycle...

Good Catch....

Chinese Stem-Branch Astrology employs two major cycles, a ten year and a one year cycle. 

Her ten year cycle.....[cycle seat] becomes worn-out, uncomfortable....she hops off and on to another mans seat of passion. A new pedestal, a new groin from which to perch....on.

She is unwittingly locked in...fated to stray at ten year intervals. 

Yes, she HAS a choice. Being conscious of this {outside?} influence would help prepare her for those stirring feelings that she feels in her mind and in her loins, Eh? 
Ignorance is an excuse.

Just Sayin'


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## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> But when someone cheats with you, then cheats on you, it still comes as a terrible shock! Why? Human nature. Folks believe what we want to believe.
> 
> But *who sends topless pictures to a dangerous drug addict?* :scratchhead:
> 
> Doesn't add up.


Who?

That part of her that is in her subconscious mind....her alter ego.
That Who, who lives in her bone-encased Cerebral Cellar..... where horned devils with large hands, feet and one very large hip-bound spear.... lurks. 
And waits, til summoned by her primary, primate, lucid psyche.
Once summoned, he/she [Devil] out-focuses the lead consciousness, even if for a moment of indiscretion.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

If she cheated with you, she will cheat on you. Ive got that t-shirt. She doesnt respect you, you wont put your foot down. You dont want to believe what shes doing, which is the problem. The only possible way to fix this is for her to know you have boundaries and they will not be violated or else, she faces the consequences, filing for divorce. 
Look up Athol Kay books, ghe married man sex life primer, it describes a map for you. This crap has to stop. Sleeping on her phone???? Id tell her because of her sin against you sending pics and what not, she will have to earn your trust again, which means total access. You can download apps to let you see what shes doing and texting. Im afraid she is always going to do this bro. Its part of who she is, your yesterdays news, shes looking for new and exciting. Its quite sad, but you cant make marriage work if your the only one in it.


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## Rocket Skates76

I live with secret anger and disdain towards her. 
I feel very conflicted...I almost want to let her slip up again so I can stick it to her. Seriously. But I know thats the pain talking. I have never demanded access to her stuff. Shes an adult i refuse to babysit. If there is something I just want to find it and get off the rollercoaster.


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## SunCMars

Rocket Skates76 said:


> For what it's worth, She was basically the only child of *a successful ministry family, *


Two more items of note.

1) She is of religious roots. Her continual actions could be a form of continual rebellion against her upbringing. Maybe she knows her parents are hypocrites and not really religious. Or just common sinners, finding a way to make easy cash and fame.

Or....the parents and family are truly worthy people. And she is not...does not feel worthy. And therefore acts out.

2) The Dark forces could not taint her parents and other members or her lineage. Could not could not break through their "Holy Shield". But they could weaken the Clan's image by finding the one lost and weak lamb...your wife.

Destroy the clan's image by attacking it's roots and fringe weaknesses.

That what gives a person spiritual clarity, God Connectiveness, is often Neptunian insight..... 
A devotion to God and HIS love....This Neptunian eyesight is a close cousin of drug induced chaotic thought. A hair-breadth distance from varying degrees of madness and concurrent actionable indiscretion.
Your wife received an imbalance of this inheritable genetic and fateful [seemingly outward] impelling mindset. 

If this thought process goes over your head, Que Serra. :|

I deliver the Water.....only.

Just Sayin'


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## anchorwatch

Hello, @Rocket Skates76

Nothing will change until you do! Does that make sense to you? 

10 year old boys get angry, lash out in frustration and whine about things they view as not fair. Men take steps to change what they don't like. That's how they get off the rollercoaster. 

Here... https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Best


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## Emerging Buddhist

Rocket Skates76 said:


> If there is something I just want to find it and get off the rollercoaster.


That will never happen if you keep buying tickets...


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## MJJEAN

Your wife is a serial cheater. She cheated on her exH and she has cheated on you. The only way she will stop cheating on you is if there is no you in her life to cheat on. Your options are to divorce and co-parent or stay married and accept your wife occasionally cheats when the mood strikes and there is an available man.

By the way, I was a WW in my first marriage who had multiple affairs and left the marriage to be with my final OM. As soon as the divorce was final we married and have been together ever since. 17 years, total, now. What I said about your wife wasn't some judgement about how you began. I'm living in a glass house, here. It was all about her behavior prior to *and* since being with you. There hasn't been any infidelity in my marriage, so I know it's possible to be a "situational cheater". That's not your wife. She's a serial and won't stop until she either doesn't have anyone to cheat on or she doesn't have anyone to cheat with.

And, yes, if she's anything like I was, she compartmentalizes VERY well.


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## Rocket Skates76

I appreciate that. For some reason 'serial cheater' calms my nerves concerning her. My issue though is still....was there ever a PA? 
I don't feel like another month of this mess. 
I can forgive an EA if I know we are all cleaned up and walking forward. But a possible PA haunts me if that makes any sense.


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## farsidejunky

Schedule a polygraph.

Do not tell her.

Arrive at the appointment under the guise of a lunch date, then look at her somberly and say:

"Wife, you are about to take a polygraph. If you refuse, or if your answers to the questions are false, I will be consulting an attorney and filing for divorce before the week is over. I can't promise you I will be able to hear the truth without hurt and anger, but I can promise you that without it our marriage is over. Now is your ONLY chance to be 100% truthful, with zero omissions. Start talking."

If that does not bring out the truth, nothing will.

All passwords are shared from here forward. She should willingly provide them out of want to keep the marriage. Do you want to be a warden? Nope. And frankly, she should be volunteering anything to show she is turning a new leaf.

Also, an absolute requirement should be for her to get into therapy. Not marriage counseling, but individual therapy. She needs to understand why her ego is so fragile that she will jump on the first man to pay attention to her.

All of that is assuming you get the truth. I would have ended the relationship after the 2nd EA. 

Shoot for the parking lot confession. It it does not get the truth, nothing will.


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## MattMatt

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I live with secret anger and disdain towards her.
> I feel very conflicted...I almost want to let her slip up again so I can stick it to her. Seriously. But I know thats the pain talking. I have never demanded access to her stuff. Shes an adult i refuse to babysit. If there is something I just want to find it and get off the rollercoaster.


Counselling, individual and as a couple, might help.


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## manfromlamancha

Rocket, you need to wake up and face facts and stop sugar coating everything.


Your wife is a serial cheater. She cheated on her ex husband (who knows how many times) and she cheated on you (again, who knows how many times).


She is a serial cheater whom you, for some unknown reason, think is a good person ?!?!? She is not a good person. Quite the opposite. She seems to think there is nothing wrong in her cheating - maybe because she knows she is good looking and feels entitled.


No OM is off limits - she will cheat with ex-boyfriends because it is easier but also with new band mates etc. There seems to be no other reason for doing this other than to feed her ego, enjoy illicit sex and the knowing that you will eventually rug-sweep it as you tend to believe everything she says.


You need to make her take a poly asap.


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## Rocket Skates76

I hear you...and I know you guys are about to toss me out of this bar, I get it. 

BUT there is no evidence of any illicit PAs in our marriage or her previous one. 
Would she have admitted that to me, her husband?? 
I would like to think so. 
I sound foolish and weak. 
But I would like to think the mother of our 4 little precious kids COULDNT do that. 
Play out a fantasy online? Ok it hurts but ok. 
Let a young musician crush on you? Crappy but it happened. 

A polygraph? Man, if she was clean wth then?

You have no idea the gut wrenching feeling I have when I open up a post on here because I think some of this counsel is right.


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## farsidejunky

Then accept her word as truth and swallow it, while your gut screams at you to the contrary. Live with it. Stop complaining about the pain.

Or...

Do something about it. 

Those are your only two choices. Do only that with which you can live.


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## GusPolinski

Young children and a serial cheating wife?

Want to take a stab at what I'm getting at?


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## TX-SC

The consequence of an affair is a lack of trust. Schedule a polygraph and demand access to cell phone, etc. It is expected and certainly reasonable.


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## drifting on

GusPolinski said:


> Young children and a serial cheating wife?
> 
> Want to take a stab at what I'm getting at?




She was stabbed???


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## sokillme

drifting on said:


> She was stabbed???


She was stabbed alright but it wasn't with medal.


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## Rocket Skates76

You all see the writing on the wall: I apparently am wearing rose colored glasses and not objectively looking at my marital relationship. 
From an outside perspective (which is why I created an account) I have 3 verified EAs. 

The first (previous marriage)
2nd- one month Facebook fling "with methed out loser ex boyfriend."December and loads of family at our house. I even spent a solid week getting treated for a severe infection at hospital. The motel and hotel things bug me bad...more than the topless pic. He was hours away w no car. He was MAD when she broke it off. 

3rd- the younger guitar player/ band mate. 40 or so text a day. Much deleted so I "wouldn't be alarmed at the amount if I looked at her phone". She morphed into something different at this point. this ultra sexy country singer, from the 2nd to the 3rd EA that is. Never would admit much was wrong with her texting actions, even when they were at the same function just different places they would text, until I almost forced her to. She remains a sexy country singer btw. He slowly disappeared and left the band a couple months later but still lives semi close. 

Tell me. 
If you have ever been in my shoes, could you point at any of those with certainty and say "

yeah, PA. At some point". 

You that are seeing this from the other side of things so that is why I ask.


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## MJJEAN

Could I say PA's for absolute certain? No. The only ones who could are your wife and the OM. 

Considering everything you related here would I bet money I can't afford to lose at least one was physical? Yeah, I would.

Would I bet she had a PA in her previous marriage, besides whatever she may have done with you? Yeah, I'd make that bet, too.

You can't really believe she'd lie to you, her husband, yet you know she lied to get first husband back when he believed what she had to say.

She deleted texts to avoid alarming you, huh? Yeah,no. She deleted texts to cover her own ass. If she wanted to avoid alarming you, she could have simply stopped the texting.

And DNA the kids. Just to be sure. You can do it privately without telling her if you want. Get kits from the pharmacy or online, get saliva samples, and mail it in.


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## EleGirl

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I hear you...and I know you guys are about to toss me out of this bar, I get it.
> 
> BUT there is no evidence of any illicit PAs in our marriage or her previous one.
> Would she have admitted that to me, her husband??
> I would like to think so.
> I sound foolish and weak.
> But I would like to think the mother of our 4 little precious kids COULDNT do that.
> Play out a fantasy online? Ok it hurts but ok.
> Let a young musician crush on you? Crappy but it happened.
> 
> A polygraph? Man, if she was clean wth then?
> 
> You have no idea the gut wrenching feeling I have when I open up a post on here because I think some of this counsel is right.


It is highly unlikely that she would admit to a PA. Few cheaters admit to anything that the betrayed spouse has not found out on their own. Shoot, you can have solid evidence and they will usually try to deny it.


----------



## Taxman

Just the threat of a polygraph is enough to shake loose the truth. First, sir, an emotional affair IS STILL CHEATING. Ok, she may not have let a strange **** between her legs, but it is just as bad, she has ****ed the guy in HER MIND. It ain't too far...

Tell her that you have full intentions of taking her to a polygraph examination. Tell her that if she fails ANY QUESTION, that you will remove her from your home and divorce her. That usually elicits a "parking lot confession". 

Stop treating this like she has been a bad girl, she has been unfaithful to you. Give her some consequences that she will remember. The good girl from a good christian household is acting out, and if not stopped now she will escalate.


----------



## Adelais

Rocket Skates76 said:


> You all see the writing on the wall: I apparently am wearing rose colored glasses and not objectively looking at my marital relationship.
> From an outside perspective (which is why I created an account) I have 3 verified EAs.
> 
> The first (previous marriage)
> 2nd- one month Facebook fling "with methed out loser ex boyfriend."December and loads of family at our house. I even spent a solid week getting treated for a severe infection at hospital. The motel and hotel things bug me bad...more than the topless pic. He was hours away w no car. He was MAD when she broke it off.
> 
> 3rd- the younger guitar player/ band mate. 40 or so text a day. Much deleted so I "wouldn't be alarmed at the amount if I looked at her phone". She morphed into something different at this point. this ultra sexy country singer, from the 2nd to the 3rd EA that is. Never would admit much was wrong with her texting actions, even when they were at the same function just different places they would text, until I almost forced her to. She remains a sexy country singer btw. He slowly disappeared and left the band a couple months later but still lives semi close.
> 
> Tell me.
> If you have ever been in my shoes, could you point at any of those with certainty and say "
> 
> yeah, PA. At some point".
> 
> You that are seeing this from the other side of things so that is why I ask.


Isn't what she has already done caused (you and her previous husband) enough pain? She is who she is. The exact details from here on out shouldn't matter. Be done already, and make sure the next woman you choose isn't willing to have an affair with you.

I feel sad for your children, they didn't have a choice.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I hear you...and I know you guys are about to toss me out of this bar, I get it.
> 
> BUT there is no evidence of any illicit PAs in our marriage or her previous one.
> Would she have admitted that to me, her husband??
> I would like to think so.
> I sound foolish and weak.
> But I would like to think the mother of our 4 little precious kids COULDNT do that.
> Play out a fantasy online? Ok it hurts but ok.
> Let a young musician crush on you? Crappy but it happened.
> 
> A polygraph? Man, if she was clean wth then?
> 
> You have no idea the gut wrenching feeling I have when I open up a post on here because I think some of this counsel is right.


Nobody wants to toss you out of this bar! Quite the contrary - we want you to protect yourself and your kids. You already have evidence of EAs. You know she cheated on her husband with you - what did you two get up to ? Holding hands ? No you didn't - you did more! EA's are affairs! You wanting a poly is a natural thing. And if she turns out to be truthful about what she has told you well then whoopy doo! Good for you both. But you don't need to feel bad about demanding a poly. She needs to feel bad about what she has done so far!!!

And no - of course she wouldn't tell you if she has cheated before physically or otherwise! Why would she ? Just because you are her husband?!? That is the very reason she wouldn't tell you. 

Quite simply, you need to get to the bottom of this. This starts with knowing the truth. Then comes working on why she does this and what she needs to do about it. You don't have a solid base without the truth to start with.


----------



## Dyokemm

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I hear you...and I know you guys are about to toss me out of this bar, I get it.
> 
> BUT there is no evidence of any illicit PAs in our marriage or her previous one.
> Would she have admitted that to me, her husband??
> I would like to think so.
> I sound foolish and weak.
> But I would like to think the mother of our 4 little precious kids COULDNT do that.
> Play out a fantasy online? Ok it hurts but ok.
> Let a young musician crush on you? Crappy but it happened.
> 
> A polygraph? Man, if she was clean wth then?
> 
> You have no idea the gut wrenching feeling I have when I open up a post on here because I think some of this counsel is right.


Every single poster here wanted to believe that their cheating SO was a person who "COULDN'T" do that.....I know I didn't with my LTgf.....

But at some point, everyone had to face the realization that 'wishing' facts and details away just will not work......facts are stubborn things, they refuse to change no matter how much we might want them to.

Let the scales fall from your eyes and look at the evidence without emotion.....your love is blinding you right now.

Put it aside for a second and evaluate the situation just on the facts you DO know......and accept that you undoubtedly don't know even half of everything that has gone on.


----------



## SunCMars

MJJEAN said:


> Your wife is a serial cheater. She cheated on her exH and she has cheated on you. The only way she will stop cheating on you is if there is no you in her life to cheat on. Your options are to divorce and co-parent or stay married and accept your wife occasionally cheats when the mood strikes and there is an available man.
> 
> By the way, I was a WW in my first marriage who had multiple affairs and left the marriage to be with my final OM. As soon as the divorce was final we married and have been together ever since. 17 years, total, now. What I said about your wife wasn't some judgement about how you began. I'm living in a glass house, here. It was all about her behavior prior to *and* since being with you. There hasn't been any infidelity in my marriage, so I know it's possible to be a "situational cheater". That's not your wife. She's a serial and won't stop until she either doesn't have anyone to cheat on or she doesn't have anyone to cheat with.
> 
> And, yes, if she's anything like I was, she compartmentalizes VERY well.


Ah, yes.......

I see that compartment, MJ. It is hidden well. Under the smile and curve of your lips. That sliding drawer, velvet lined, formerly well oiled [so as to not squeak when opened and closed].

When you purse your lips, the outline comes through. My eyes detect its hard edges.

Secrets are never lost or forgotten. They may never be spoken about again. But they flash behind the Iris when triggered by some sensual trigger. Only you and your lovers see those.

Relived, and refreshed til Death do you and your lovers part. First one memory goes out, then the other.

But Nay....Nay Dear. All of TAM knows NOW of these trysts. Your trysts....trust, thrust to the Wind. Waving in the breeze...a murmur NOW replaces the original orgasmic Gasps.


----------



## turnera

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I am not trying to be obstinate and dense but I’m simply having a hard time picturing her having an outright PA with anyone besides what we had initially.
> 
> Half of me says we are teenage sweethearts who have a special bond


She has now cheated on two husbands.

You've cheated on one wife. 

Karma's a b*tch.

But the bottom line is if you want to keep her, STRENGTH is your only option. Read LonelyHusband's thread to see how to do it right.


----------



## turnera

Rocket Skates76 said:


> If you have ever been in my shoes, could you point at any of those with certainty and say "
> 
> yeah, PA. At some point".


I'll ask: Does it even matter? 

IMO, the only reason it matters at this point is she is likely to get custody while you pay her 2/3 of your salary for the next 15 years.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

@Rocket Skates76 I'll come to your defense. Because, ya know, I haven't actually been cheated on so I can indulge in the Pollyanna thinking you are indulging in. I came for other reasons, learned some things and decided to stay

So here's what I see in your responses. A bit of panic. A bit of hope. A lot of disbelief.

And under it the fear that what you actually fear most is true

Having not gone through this I fully understand your trepidation. You're thinking "what if I'm just paranoid and drive her away with a poly?"

Let me straighten you out. You ar NOT wrong to be concerned. And you are NOT wrong to want to believe her. But those things are in conflict. And it's HER ACTIONS and not YOUR PARANOIA that is creating that conflict.

Get centered. Regain your composure. Respond rationally. 

The right answer isn't to question your own motivations. It's to hold her accountable for DEMONSTRATING her fidelity and REASSURING you.

It's not on you to believe her - it's on her to prove it to you.

You can CONFIDENTLY say "I want to believe you, and I need to believe you. But your actions have broken our trust. I need you to try to rebuild that trust by telling me what you've already told me - but this time with someone else present and with a polygraph. Then we can start the process of rebuilding trust and see where that takes us". And add what the others have said to force out a last minute confession

The difference between me and the others is that they have seen what "loved ones" can really to to you and I haven't. But I can intellectualize this and realize they may not be wrong at all

Trust yourself. Believe that you have a right to be concerned and be skeptical. Believe it's on her to prove herself and try to win you back


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Goobertron

Hi Rocket Skates76,
You're right to be concerned about the phone use and sending of a revealing image, however you don't have any direct evidence of a PA. She admitted to the EA, that ended, and may be doing more of this. You need to get some direct evidence. I think you should try a two-pronged approach - yes get evidence (you could even hire a private investigator), but if you want to save the relationship you are probably in a better position than most.

You've said your wife would actually like it if you went out with her (maybe meet her band mates and go to some gigs), she's attractive, has a high sex drive for you and is affectionate toward you after 10 years of marriage. To me it doesn't scream affair, an EA situation would be like what happened to me, where I got home one day to find my ex had just turned off the faucet on the emotions and was cold shouldering me out the door. To me this says emotional connection which is the big concern, however your wife still seems devoted to you so this hasn't happened unless she's "acting".

I know it can be hard after 10 years of marriage but maybe you could work on yourself a bit, and also the relationship. Improve your own confidence by doing some physical exercise, buy some new clothes, get a haircut, and work on your emotional connection with her. You do have 4 young kids together and that can't be easy for her or you. A break-up would break up your family and I could only imagine paying child support for four kids.

It's important to have an escape and a fantasy life and you need to be there or some other guy will probably try, and we all like attention. One thing I learned long ago when I didn't go out to a party with an ex-girlfriend of mine who cheated with a friend of mine that night was that the best defence would have been to just be there. Sometimes when someone's self-esteem is bad they may be more open to cheating and then use the "it just happened" line especially if there's been some drinking involved.

Try to see if you can get a relative to mind the kids for a weekend and plan a little holiday for just the two of you and just try to be really sweet, engage emotionally, and see what happens. If you do find the smoking gun and nothing much has happened maybe it was just the thing to help get things back on track. She may have started texting that ex again, who knows. But while you find out with secret hidden recorders or other means you might want to try a more human approach, maybe even discuss your concerns about drifting apart and wanting to rekindle how you really feel about eachother and go the romantic option. Perhaps then the truth will set you free one way or the other.


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## eric1

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I live with secret anger and disdain towards her.
> 
> I feel very conflicted...I almost want to let her slip up again so I can stick it to her. Seriously. But I know thats the pain talking. I have never demanded access to her stuff. Shes an adult i refuse to babysit. If there is something I just want to find it and get off the rollercoaster.




Then be an adult and require full access to her phone. Right in front of her plug it into your computer and tell her you are running text and messaging recovery software.

It doesn't matter if you do. Her reaction will be your answer.


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## Rocket Skates76

So, after reading all the responses throughout the day yeaterday, it really began to confirm/cement some things that possibly were still out there hidden away.
I went home and had a very hard time wanting to even look at my wife. She wanted us to go to the grocery store together, a married ‘day date’ to which I reluctantly agreed to. I was annoyed by all that was swirling around in my head and just wanted space to think. I was moody and short the remainder of the evening, but could not help it. Finally, a small tipping point and we were sitting outside going through my thoughts. 
I did not reveal her current actions as alarming. I didn’t even bring them up, lest she bury things further.
Instead I focused on what ‘we all’ discussed yesterday, of course, minus mentioning ‘you all’. 😊
2 months ago, I started going to a counselor for answers. What Ive learned is that yes of course I want nothing but to have joy and peace and rest in the presence of my wife. But I cant because things were left so undone and frayed a year and a half ago. My wife always said we needed couple counseling, but she never followed through. Hell, she never even went herself. Ive also been doing quite a lot of reading lately on the nature of EAs and PAs and the like.

I had more info last night and felt more confident. I told her I still struggled with her lies and deception.
I still struggled with knowing only a tip of the iceberg. She of course brought up my failings for ten years of marriage (no infidelity) and how she was able to forgive and love and move on even though it still bothered her. She stared and listened and interjected as I tried to explain the best way I knew how that she still was holding on to all these secrets, but she never offered any new truths. I told her:
I thought there were probably more than just the three EAs because she handled our two like a pro.
I wondered if things ever got physical. (Of course not!) big and dramatic…and Im stupid for thinking that.

She revealed yesterday she was ready to take the kids up to her moms for a few days (9 hrs away) because she was tired of me being up and down. I didn’t show it but that was a little shocking out of no where. I have been a little brooding the past couple weeks as Ive tried to work thru this, but yeah….

We left it at that.


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## farsidejunky

And there you have it.

Rug sweep the affairs or I will take your kids and leave.

Emotional blackmail.


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## Rocket Skates76

Well the context of her leaving for a couple days was because of my recent moodiness (of course due to all this internal dialog in my head) when just a month ago I was great. 
But yeah it was brought up; but in all fairness I guess, I did say I had considered a separation a while back because I needed time to work and figure things out.


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## jld

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Well the context of her leaving for a couple days was because of my recent moodiness (of course due to all this internal dialog in my head) when just a month ago I was great.
> But yeah it was brought up; but in all fairness I guess, I did say I had considered a separation a while back because I needed time to work and figure things out.


If I were you, I would be ready for some transparency. 

You realize that all this stuff you are keeping secret from her is weighing on you, right? Just like the things she is keeping secret from you are weighing on her, otherwise she would not be so defensive.

I could not live that way.

You know she has been unfaithful. You know she has tried to hide it. 

You know you are spying on her. You are not being open and honest, either.

How about a sit down talk with her and her parents, and yours, too, and a simple laying out of everything you know?

Yes, she may divorce you. And yes, you will probably be paying her at least half your income for the next 15 years.

But at least it would all be out in the open. Nothing hidden, nothing weighing on you. And there would be a chance for peace for both of you.


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## Rocket Skates76

That's a part of the issue. Nothing has EVER seemed to weigh her down except my trying to ask questions for clarity. 

Makes me think I read too much into it or am crazy


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## jld

Rocket Skates76 said:


> That's a part of the issue. Nothing has EVER seemed to weigh her down except my trying to ask questions for clarity.
> 
> Makes me think I read too much into it or am crazy


If her conscience were not bothered, she would not hide or be defensive.

That is only one part of what I told you, though. You would do well to consider the whole post.


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## Lostinthought61

unfortunately as long as she continues to blame shift the lat 10 years on you as her cause for EA (or worse) you will never get anywhere...you could try couple couseling but the minute that she feels that the counselor tries to put the blame on her she will be out of there. I bet ten to one if you told her you could get pass this if she took a poly she would tell you she wants a divorce...she is going to take this to the end and make you the bad guy.


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## Nucking Futs

jld said:


> If I were you, I would be ready for some transparency.
> 
> You realize that all this stuff you are keeping secret from her is weighing on you, right? Just like the things she is keeping secret from you are weighing on her, otherwise she would not be so defensive.
> 
> I could not live that way.
> 
> You know she has been unfaithful. You know she has tried to hide it.
> 
> You know you are spying on her. You are not being open and honest, either.
> 
> How about a sit down talk with her and her parents, and yours, too, and a simple laying out of everything you know?
> 
> Yes, she may divorce you. And yes, you will probably be paying her at least half your income for the next 15 years.
> 
> But at least it would all be out in the open. Nothing hidden, nothing weighing on you. And there would be a chance for peace for both of you.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Well the context of her leaving for a couple days was because of my recent moodiness (of course due to all this internal dialog in my head) when just a month ago I was great.
> But yeah it was brought up; but in all fairness I guess, I did say I had considered a separation a while back because I needed time to work and figure things out.


No, that's what she wanted you to think. The context of her leaving for a couple of days was you pressing her for the truth. She said that to shut you up and it worked.


----------



## jld

Nucking Futs said:


>


How is this helpful?

If you disagree with my advice to him, tell him why.


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## Nucking Futs

jld said:


> How is this helpful?
> 
> If you disagree with my advice to him, tell him why.


Here's my problem with your advice. You want to skip past some of the work and go straight to the happy ending part, and it doesn't work like that. You tell a cheater that you're investigating and they don't confess and apologize, they keep cheating, cover their tracks better, watch you like a hawk to try to get around your investigation, browbeat you for not trusting them and blame shift all the problems in the marriage to you and your investigation. 

To get that confession and apology you at a minimum will need incontrovertible proof, something so blatantly obvious that there can be no denial, and guess what, a cheater will usually deny even that!

No, the time to tell her he's investigating is _after_ the investigation has come up empty.


----------



## jld

Nucking Futs said:


> Here's my problem with your advice. You want to skip past some of the work and go straight to the happy ending part, and it doesn't work like that. You tell a cheater that you're investigating and they don't confess and apologize, they keep cheating, cover their tracks better, watch you like a hawk to try to get around your investigation, browbeat you for not trusting them and blame shift all the problems in the marriage to you and your investigation.
> 
> To get that confession and apology you at a minimum will need incontrovertible proof, something so blatantly obvious that there can be no denial, and guess what, a cheater will usually deny even that!
> 
> No, the time to tell her he's investigating is _after_ the investigation has come up empty.


I suggested he have a sitdown with her and her parents and his, and put what he knows on the table. There is no reason that sitdown could not include proof.


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## Nucking Futs

jld said:


> I suggested he have a sitdown with her and her parents and his, and put what he knows on the table. There is no reason that sitdown could not include proof.


Except he doesn't have it yet, thus my assertion that you are jumping the gun.


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## TheTruthHurts

@Rocket Skates76 please understand that your interactions with her are weak and look weak and women abhor a weak man

You are much better off being strong, sticking to your position, demanding access and compliance, and if you're wrong, apologizing later. After she apologizes for making you feel crazy by her evasive and blame shifting behavior.

And yes - you can DEMAND compliance. Not from the standpoint of controlling her, but from the standpoint of looking, speaking, and acting strong, unambiguous, firm, and resolute. You are stating your unconditional boundaries.

Anyone (man, woman, child) can see absolute resolve. Women respect and may fear that at times. It's sometimes called a **** test - and though I never have really felt one myself, it's probably because my boundaries are absolute.

You have a right to self respect. That's how you gain respect.

In your shoes I'd say it's fine to leave, but give me your phone now, I will back it up and verify what you are telling me, then you can go. Failure to be transparent is an admission of guilt in my book. Your choice but if you leave the room with the phone, you will have permanently broken my trust. I'd add that it's my hope that this simply confirms what you've been saying but I really have no basis to trust that based on your prior lies and deception.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts

Your must understand and believe - 100% - that SHE is responsible for making you feel safe in the relationship.

As soon as you regain your self esteem and believe that, you will have no problem acting on it.

And there is nothing in my posts that hint at threats, violence, or scare tactics.

Fear - yes - but only fear of consequences.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jld

Nucking Futs said:


> Except he doesn't have it yet, thus my assertion that you are jumping the gun.


She has already admitted to some of it. That's going to be hard to wiggle out of in front of her parents and his.

ETA: Rocket, there is nothing wrong with just filing, either.


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## ButtPunch

jld said:


> She has already admitted to some of it. That's going to be hard to wiggle out of in front of her parents and his.
> 
> ETA: Rocket, there is nothing wrong with just filing, either.


What kind of man brings his in-laws into a sit down conversation like this.

Uhhh Noooo!

I hate to say this but 3 emotional affairs is too much to take.

You need to accept your situation as tragic and cut the cord.

Sorry you are going thru this.


----------



## jld

ButtPunch said:


> *What kind of man brings his in-laws into a sit down conversation like this.*
> 
> Uhhh Noooo!
> 
> I hate to say this but 3 emotional affairs is too much to take.
> 
> You need to accept your situation as tragic and cut the cord.
> 
> Sorry you are going thru this.


At least one man on TAM has, with his wife's financial infidelity. I think her parents knowing what was going on was helpful.


----------



## jld

I do get the wider point, though, BP. Whenever you involve external means of influence, whether people or devices, it does not indicate your having much personal influence over your partner.

But on a practical level, those parents are likely to be affected by any decision to divorce. And they are surely concerned for their grandchildren. So involving them may be helpful.


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## Rocket Skates76

Hoping I'm wrong and my imagination is going crazy, but...
Today I decided to objectively look at all the evidence I have been presented by my wife over the past year and a half. Without emotion or bias. One by one I listed the main talking points and then jotted down from an outside perspective what a stranger would possibly probably think. 
It was crazy to see things from that direction. A couple things snapped into place but one horrifying thought came out of nowhere and made me nauseated. Her initial emotional affair she said was only for the month of December 2015. Well it took her then only three weeks to send him to very seductive nude pictures? As I thought about that I came to one of two answers. Either she had a hell-bent agenda to screw this guy up in the name of meeting her own fantasies or she had been there physically been to My town found a way because apparently he had no vehicle. And this would have been probably prior to December I guess who the hell really knows. And the picture like someone said in a previous post was simply meant to tide him over until their next hook up. 

That is a sickening thought I feel it is probably from the pit of hell which happens to be my imagination. god help me.


----------



## Adelais

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Hoping I'm wrong and my imagination is going crazy, but...
> Today I decided to objectively look at all the evidence I have been presented by my wife over the past year and a half. Without emotion or bias. One by one I listed the main talking points and then jotted down from an outside perspective what a stranger would possibly probably think.
> It was crazy to see things from that direction. A couple things snapped into place but one horrifying thought came out of nowhere and made me nauseated. Her initial emotional affair she said was only for the month of December 2015. Well it took her then only three weeks to send him to very seductive nude pictures? As I thought about that I came to one of two answers. Either she had a hell-bent agenda to screw this guy up in the name of meeting her own fantasies or she had been there physically been to My town found a way because apparently he had no vehicle. And this would have been probably prior to December I guess who the hell really knows. And the picture like someone said in a previous post was simply meant to tide him over until their next hook up.
> 
> That is a sickening thought I feel it is probably from the pit of hell which happens to be my imagination. god help me.


Would it be OK with you that she had 3 EAs that never went to PA, and that she only sent nude pictures to one man? If your answer is "yes" then your tolerance level is very high. Actually it is not high. You are tortured by her actions, and will continue to be, whether or not you ever find evidence of anything physical.

Your wife's behavior is tormenting you, and will continue to do so, because that is just who she is. That is who she was before you met her, that is who she was when you started a relationship with her, and she has continued to be the same person. You just never thought she would cheat on _you_.

You need to deal with yourself and your own boundaries: what you are willing to do yourself, and what you will accept in someone with whom you are having a relationship. It was OK that she cheated on her husband before you came into the picture, and it was OK that she cheated _with_ you as her object of affection. However, you are not OK that she cheats _on_ you.

Next time, don't cheat with a cheater. Choose a woman who has never cheated, and who would never cheat with you. However, that woman might have her own boundaries which will eliminate you as a potential object of love, once she finds out you were a cheater who married your affair partner.


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## Dyokemm

Do not ever mention seperation again before confirming the facts about her A's.

IMO a WS fights hard to maintain the role of 'victim' in the relationship.

Threatening seperation to a WS without 'proof' of the extent of the betrayal gives them the opportunity to go to friends and family and inform them about how 'jealous', 'controlling', or 'mean' you are being while they have done nothing wrong.

It feeds their 'victim' mentality and act.

The only time a BS should ever bring up a seperation IMO (this is assuming the BS wants R eventually).....is with a caught and outed WS who expresses wanting to R.....but is not quite getting onboard with all the demands the BS is expressing for R to be considered.

And only in this situation because it MIGHT shake the WS into realizing they are close to losing the M if they do not step up to the plate.


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## TDSC60

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Hoping I'm wrong and my imagination is going crazy, but...
> Today I decided to objectively look at all the evidence I have been presented by my wife over the past year and a half. Without emotion or bias. One by one I listed the main talking points and then jotted down from an outside perspective what a stranger would possibly probably think.
> It was crazy to see things from that direction. A couple things snapped into place but one horrifying thought came out of nowhere and made me nauseated. Her initial emotional affair she said was only for the month of December 2015. Well it took her then only three weeks to send him to very seductive nude pictures? As I thought about that I came to one of two answers. Either she had a hell-bent agenda to screw this guy up in the name of meeting her own fantasies or she had been there physically been to My town found a way because apparently he had no vehicle. And this would have been probably prior to December I guess who the hell really knows. And the picture like someone said in a previous post was simply meant to tide him over until their next hook up.
> 
> That is a sickening thought I feel it is probably from the pit of hell which happens to be my imagination. god help me.


After three confirmed EAs, it is not hard to believe that there was something physical associated with one of the affair partners. Rocket - listen to your gut. 

When I found out about my wife's supposed EA years ago she was about to leave the house for a meeting with the POS. I confronted her and got the "just a friend" answer. I told her that my wife was not allowed to date other men. Of course she got mad and said "I am not dating anybody". I asked her was the meeting at a local bar just him and her. When she answered yes, I said "that is the definition of a date and my wife is not allowed to date." She asked me "what are you saying?" I told her that if she walked out the door to be with another she might as well stay with him because she would be my wife only in a legal sense and no longer welcome in my bed.

You have to define what you find acceptable and what is not. Then clearly state the consequences of unacceptable behavior - and mean it.


----------



## Dyokemm

TDSC60 said:


> After three confirmed EAs, it is not hard to believe that there was something physical associated with one of the affair partners. Rocket - listen to your gut.
> 
> When I found out about my wife's supposed EA years ago she was about to leave the house for a meeting with the POS. I confronted her and got the "just a friend" answer. I told her that my wife was not allowed to date other men. Of course she got mad and said "I am not dating anybody". I asked her was the meeting at a local bar just him and her. When she answered yes, I said "that is the definition of a date and my wife is not allowed to date." She asked me "what are you saying?" I told her that if she walked out the door to be with another she might as well stay with him because she would be my wife only in a legal sense and no longer welcome in my bed.
> 
> You have to define what you find acceptable and what is not. Then clearly state the consequences of unacceptable behavior - and mean it.


TDSC60,

For the benefit of OP, who I think is a little fearful of really confronting his WW, how did your WW react to your ultimatum?

And I take it by 'supposed' EA that you eventually found out it was a PA?.....or does the doubt still remain today about what truly happened?

I get that you are trying to give OP a heads up on the possibility of PA (and I agree, especially with Guitar Hero IMO)....but did you actually find PA in your case.....or are you telling him to get ready to live with a never ending gnawing doubt?

Sorry.....I don't remember your history, and its not in your threads anymore.....

But it sounds like you have some insight that could be very useful for OP right now.


----------



## eric1

The reason why it doesn't matter what you do unless you have 100% transparency (full access to technology, poly) is because you will always always always be protecting yourself by saying 'what else?' for the rest of your life.

There is just no way to rug sweep trust.


----------



## turnera

Have you analyzed the real reason you are so fearful of losing her? Might some of it be that you both tore up two other marriages to make this one and walking away would have to be admitting you screwed up? Just a thought.


----------



## aine

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Man posting this makes me nervous, but nonetheless. I feel sick like I already know what the answers may be. Ok so, my wife and I were teenage sweethearts who went
> our seperate ways and married other people. Ten years ago, through the magic of Myspace, we reconnected...flirted, met up, and you get the picture.
> I left my wife to re-connect with her; she left her husband as well (although it turned out he was already involved in an affair). Ten years have passed and we have 4 beautiful kids as well. We have gone through
> some rough patches, but nothing I think like this.
> So, let me start by saying she is an fun, exciting, loving personality. Has always expressed great love for me. I on the other hand am somewhat the opposite...reserved I guess.
> She has always been so devoted! But almost borderline smothering and clingy as well, which would really be my only gripe. But she's BEAUTIFUL (seriously) so I have to count myself lucky I guess.
> For what it's worth, She was basically the only child of a successful ministry family, she put out a couple albums in the 90's...but yes, for the past 8 years it has been
> life stuck at the house raising kids while I went to work.
> Her previous marriage lasted 10 years. She once told me a fellow she worked with at her father's church invited her to meet him at a motel. According to her,
> she went there, they briefly hugged, he kissed her and she ran home and confessed to her husband. I believed that...I knew no other side of her.
> Now, I'll keep this short. A year and half ago January 2nd, 2016, she woke me up frantic. I was in a daze. She confessed she had been chatting with an ex-boyfriend
> on Facebook for a month. She said she felt bad, and broke it off with him after Xmas, he went crazy and was threatening to come shoot her (He lived 5 hrs away). She went on
> to say she sent him a revealing picture of her posing topless the prior week but nothing else really serious. I was floored. Thought maybe I was dreaming.
> Never, this cant be real! She also told me she was only chatting with him because I never showed her love or attention etc etc. I believed it. I had no plan
> for this. The next couple months I struggled, bad. She really didnt want to discuss what happened without telling me about my mistakes (Years ago) and how they drove her
> to this. We would yell and cry and talk. The truth (I guess) trickled over that time AND she pointed out she confessed to it to me so wasnt hiding anything; they started innocent texting; Never talked about sexual stuff; talked some
> crap about me; and sent him a naked pic. to which he simply said she was beautiful. I believed it. I didnt feel right though; She couldnt have been making plans to meet up with him
> could she? I found a motel in his town mapquested. She denied it saying she simply wanted to see where his town was at, it chose that particular spot. I believed her.
> He sent an email to our family account telling her the hotel reservations (a different one in a nearby big city) and plans were all BS and SHE BROKE HIS HEART AND
> strung him along, using him. She explained he was a meth head and was just trying to stir up trouble. I believed her. I wanted to believe her. Let me tell you, our
> Email box after that stayed CLEAN even deleted emails.
> Oh BTW, the topless pic she sent to him, she sent the same one to me the day I was released from the hospital fighting a very serious infection. I wonder who got the pic
> first? Fast forward 6 months, she's in a new band. I'm a silent basket case. A younger guy, late 20's, the guitarist, And her I find are texting each other like
> 30-60 times a day. I found that out by secretly looking at our bill online. So I snuck her outside one night, and sure enough, MUCH of their texting was deleted.
> I went crazy and left for a day and a half. She said nothing bad was said, he simply would compliment her beauty for her age in an effort to build up her self-esteem.
> She would NOT press him for the deleted text. He sent one or two screenshots of them out with the rest of the band texting each other basic stuff. When I wanted
> more, she said he had just gotten a new phone so the other stuff was gone. I believed her. I made peace with them both and was sorry for almost breaking up the band.
> He has sense left the band. She would never admit the amount of texts were alarming, they were friends, I was stupid for reading too much into things. I kinda
> believed her. He seemed to be a good guy as well.
> Here's my issue. My gut is killing me. She sleeps on top of her phone. She is on it constantly. I'm angry and kinda feel played.
> That's 3 times an EA has happened in 20 years and of course she confirms this. She is still so loving and needy of me. I dont know what
> I'm trying to say I guess.


Did you both cheat on your previous spouses to get together? If so all I will say it what goes around comes around.


----------



## TAMAT

Rocket,

I'm going to guess that if your W cheated with you physically when you had an affair with her, she is now doing the same.

Tamat


----------



## TDSC60

Dyokemm said:


> TDSC60,
> 
> For the benefit of OP, who I think is a little fearful of really confronting his WW, how did your WW react to your ultimatum?
> 
> And I take it by 'supposed' EA that you eventually found out it was a PA?.....or does the doubt still remain today about what truly happened?
> 
> I get that you are trying to give OP a heads up on the possibility of PA (and I agree, especially with Guitar Hero IMO)....but did you actually find PA in your case.....or are you telling him to get ready to live with a never ending gnawing doubt?
> 
> Sorry.....I don't remember your history, and its not in your threads anymore.....
> 
> But it sounds like you have some insight that could be very useful for OP right now.


I told her it was her choice to go or to stay - she stayed. I played detective for about 6 months but found nothing else. I never found confirmation of a PA but I am not naive enough to think that was impossible. If I had confirmed a PA I would have been out the door and not looked back. We had two small kids at the time so I HAD to have confirmation or at least very good evidence that a PA happened.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
You are in a very overwhelming mindset presently. There is great conflict between what your rational mind knows and believes and what your emotional mind simply refuses to accept. However, for the sake of clarity let us look at the facts you have presented rationally. Your wife is capable of a PA. This is fact. She is capable of an EA. This is fact. She is not very discriminate in regards to her "partners" as evidenced by her involvement with a known methamphetamine user that appears to be mentally unstable and who does not even have his own transportation. This speaks very poorly to her self esteem if her ego can be boosted by an individual of such low character. She also has no inhibitions about sending him a nude photos of herself while simultaneously sending it to you. That is deeply troubling. She is also not selective of age as her second EA (third if you count her previous marriage) was with a man very much her junior, again indicating her low self esteem.

I posit that your wife is very immature and insecure and very much likes sex and sexual arousal. She is mother to 4 children, three of them daughters and this is the example she displays for them? Not to mention the risk of losing her marriage which, if that occurs, her daughters will eventually find out why the marriage ended. 

Also, you have indicated repeatedly that her "defense" when confronted, was your poor performance as a H. It is quite normal for a woman to become cold and distant in these situations as she "shuts down" her emotions and "checks out" of the marriage. Yet you assert that her desire for intimacy is still quite high and that she in fact pursues you for intimacy the majority of the time. This is odd. You have behaved so badly as H that it has forced her to seek out other men and yet she still feels enough connection to pursue you for sex? This is contradictory. Then there is her phone and the emphasis she puts on her privacy. Basically I believe that you are attributing thoughtful, reasoned behavior to her when the evidence suggests it not to be warranted.

From your postings I find her to be shallow, impetuous, lacking morality, impressionable and very unsure of herself. In other words, a teenage schoolgirl masquerading as an adult wife and mother. She is having difficulty sustaining the masquerade.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Well tonight it came to a head. 

I sincerely would like to thank each one of you for the hard, constructive truth you shared. It I feel gave me the fire to aggressively demand truth. 

In a nutshell, I began really pressing her about the inconsistencies and gaps in her stories and how I KNOW she lied, deceived, and only ever told me enough to placate me. I asked her if she had PAs, of course not she said. Seriously, I have never seen that sweet little girl that mad before, slamming her hands down on the table, veins in her neck popping out, yelling and crying how unfair this was and how upset I was making her and how for 10 years I never gave her much attention etc. I remained calm, almost smug, because I knew the script now. I new what was coming. But she didn't know what was coming. 
I asked her if she was still screwing around on her phone...of course not! Then...my moment of clarity came. 
I told her to prove it to me. I have a program on my PC call Dr Fone that will retrieve even deleted text and messages, let's go hook your phone up. 

She stared at me for 10 second like a deer about to get run over. She quickly changed the subject...I told her I was leaving for the night, she was full of it. She said, that's ok, I will move the kids back up to Missouri tomorrow by the time your off work and I hope you have fun with visitation and child support. 
As I went inside to collect some crap, she followed me around like my shadow. I looked at her again and told her to hook up her phone to prove it to me. 

Another loooong stare. And she said" she didn't want to hook her phone up to some dumb computer. "

So, sleeping at my parents tonight and I'm 41 yrs old! Oh well. That truth I learned tonight both cuts and heals if that makes sense. Maybe I'm not crazy after all.


----------



## farsidejunky

You are not crazy. Far from it.

You just took your first major step in removing yourself from the throes of infidelity. All it took was for you to listen to...you.

Tonight is all the proof you need to know the rabbit hole goes far deeper than she knows you are willing to tolerate.

Well done.


----------



## Satya

Don't leave the house. 
SHE can leave if she's all butthurt for being held accountable. 

Schedule that supervised polygraph and DNA your kids. 

She has shown that she refuses to do what is necessary to help earn your trust, so it's up to you to get that other shoe to drop. 

Tantrums, refusal, and knee-jerk "run away" reactions are not a good sign at all. Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.


----------



## MJJEAN

In my state, married parents have equal custody. In other words, I could pack my kids up and leave state without my H's permission as long as there is no court order prohibiting me from doing so. She threatened to take the kids. Believe her. Take yourself to a lawyer first thing and get an emergency order preventing her from removing the children from the area.


----------



## eric1

The Dr Fone bluff works again.

It's time to begin exposure. Telling everyone will start to burst the bubble that she is living in.

Get your butt to a lawyer this instant. She sounds like she is capable of doing very bad things.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, you need an order preventing her from removing the kids YESTERDAY.


----------



## Dannip

Leme get this right. You two were originally married to others. Jointly cheated on your spouses. You're both cheaters. Right?

NOW you're concerned?


----------



## eric1

Nobody should be victim to the abuse that infidelity constitutes. Because you were formerly a cheater doesn't mean that abusing's one spouse is in any way acceptable. It's not OK to abuse ANYONE for ANY reason.


----------



## Thor

eric1 said:


> There is just no way to rug sweep trust.


Quote Of The Day.


----------



## TAMAT

This is what happens when a situational cheater marries a serial cheater. He had no idea they were playing different games.

Tamat


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Yep she's gone. Left w the kids to her moms. Did it while I was at work without texting me a single thing. 

This hurts. 

Deep down I really want to believe her and myself can fix this mess.


----------



## farsidejunky

Get an attorney on the phone NOW.


----------



## dubsey

Yep, call an attorney, and perhaps, the police.


----------



## mickybill

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Deep down I really want to believe her and myself can fix this mess.


Sadly I think that ship has sailed...


----------



## OnTheRocks

Agreed. You need legal help immediately.


----------



## jsmart

She can't legally just up take the kids across state lines without telling you. You need legal help. You may just be able to file with the police but being that you're a man, it may not go very far without a lawyer. If it was the opposite and you took the kids like that, they would issue an Amber alert in a heart beat. Aren't equal rights swell.

As far as your wife, man she's a piece of work but to be honest you should have seen it when she cheated on her 1st husband with you. 

It's pretty gross for a married mother of 4 that's pushing 40, to be sending pics of her breast to low life drug users and guys in a cheap cover band. Great example for your daughter. Not to mention there's a 2 year old toddler that's probably not getting much emotional attention.

I personally would file. With her probably banging druggy, band boy, and probably many others over the years, do you really want her anymore? 

I strongly recommend that you do a DNA on the kids. A woman like that would have no qualms about making you think you're the baby daddy. With her hooking up with such low lives, she sees you like a safe sucker. She uses your history to convince you that you have something special, when it's plain as day, that you don't.


----------



## bobby_virus

I left my wife to re-connect with her; she left her husband as well (although it turned out he was already involved in an affair).


You got a karma bro, you left your wife for her, now suck it up. I pity on your 1st wife.


----------



## Be smart

I really hate to say this but your wife cheats all her life. This is normal for her. 

Just look the way she treats you.No respect for you at all. She tells you "I had a month long facebook fling" accept it and move on. Then she jumps on another guy.Than another one...

Do you want your Kids to grow up in House where this behaviour is acceptable?

If you can find time to answer my question,can you tell me what happend with your ex-wife? I really wish she made it good .


----------



## Rocket Skates76

My ex-wife was treated extremely unfairly by myself. My current wife indirectly contacted me via Myspace and thats all it took. I had NEVER done anything like what I was about to do. I moved heaven and earth to secretly meet her 6 hrs away, we were physical our first meeting. From there on, secret Myspace chats, occasional "work related trips", for about 3 months, and then I told my wife because she was seemingly
clueless. Ive never hurt somone so bad in my life, and the experience scarred me. My current wife I have been faithful to regardless of how our relationship started.


----------



## turnera

Well, then, this is your karma. Sad that kids had to be involved.


----------



## farsidejunky

Rocket, you were physical on your first meeting. Your _first_...

Sorry, brother, but no way she has only had EA's. You _know_, deep in your gut, at least one of these (if not all) have gone physical.

What did the attorney say when you contacted him/her yesterday? Or is that rhetorical?


----------



## Rocket Skates76

I surmised initially we were physical our first meeting because of all the years we had been separated, but thought of each other. Sappy, I know. If it’s worth anything, I was the one pushing the envelope our first meeting as well physically, to which she obviously obliged. 
In my ‘damaged ‘ thinking, I want to believe she got physical only with me…because it was me, her soulmate.
I feel stupid for even throwing that out there, but Ive got to be honest with you all.

As far as the attorney, I called and I will have a consultation early next week. My wife is still out of town at her mom’s (I know because I have find a friend). She did initially for the first day/night stop off at her best friends house (married woman) with the kids, I’m sure for support etc…
She started the sappy “I love you I miss you, this kids miss you” text yesterday, but I stayed distant and somewhat harsh towards her.
One peculiar thing, she disabled her Find My Iphone app on her phone before she left. Ive off and on check up on her location, as I previously stated and I guess she dosent know I use the other app, but I haven’t seen anything weird.

My damaged thinking…


----------



## pbj2016

Rocket Skates76 said:


> My ex-wife was treated extremely unfairly by myself. My current wife indirectly contacted me via Myspace and thats all it took. I had NEVER done anything like what I was about to do. I moved heaven and earth to secretly meet her 6 hrs away, we were physical our first meeting. From there on, secret Myspace chats, occasional "work related trips", for about 3 months, and then I told my wife because she was seemingly
> 
> clueless. Ive never hurt somone so bad in my life, and the experience scarred me. My current wife I have been faithful to regardless of how our relationship started.




So you have reason to believe history has repeated itself. No wonder you are worried. You are married to a serial cheater. 

Congratulate yourself on keeping her busy this long. 

If you haven't already done so you should apologize to your ex. for being a cheater and a man of low integrity.


----------



## farsidejunky

So with Find My iPhone disabled, the only way you have confirmation of her whereabouts is...her word?

How much weight does her word carry right now?

Don't you find that awful convenient for her to disable it at this time?

Wake up.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

farsidejunky said:


> So with Find My iPhone disabled, the only way you have confirmation of her whereabouts is...her word?
> 
> How much weight does her word carry right now?
> 
> Don't you find that awful convenient for her to disable it at this time?
> 
> Wake up.




He has a second app find friends


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky

TheTruthHurts said:


> He has a second app find friends
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for clarifying.

That still doesn't explain why she disabled the other one.


----------



## dubsey

because she was pissed off and didn't remember there was a second way to track


----------



## Rocket Skates76

I need help. 

Finally answered her call. I told her separation was definitely in the works because I knew she would never come clean and be 100% truthful with me. Of course she was upset and sad and crying and told me she would tell me everything and said she would even take a lie detector test if that's what it took. I never even brought that up. 
I asked her point blank if she had ever gotten physical and she said yes she performed oral on the guitar dude last October after everything blew up in July. After a band practice they all went to Buffalo wild wings everyone left except for them he invited her to jump in his truck they drove around Parked and you know the rest of the story. 
She swears nothing else happened she said she would take a lie detector test to prove that to me. Of course that dude is no longer with the band but still lives about 30 minutes away. 
She swears nothing else physical ever happened in my marriage or her previous marriage. She knows I'm thinking about divorce and talking with an attorney. 

I feel like I've just been hit by a truck want to believe her but just don't know how much more there is to the story


----------



## pbj2016

Sounds like she is still following the script. She has admitted to some physical act. Do you really want to know more? You know she is capable of it all including an LTA (your marriage is proof). So tell her that very fact and that you know how cheaters act and assume the worst (whatever the "worst" is for you) because she has lied repeatedly to you. You can't trust her word. 

Most people recommend filing for the divorce but I'm not sure that applies here. You need to decide if the worst (repeatedly lying or some physical act) is enough to divorce over. 

Only you can make that decision.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I need help.
> 
> Finally answered her call. I told her separation was definitely in the works because I knew she would never come clean and be 100% truthful with me. Of course she was upset and sad and crying and told me she would tell me everything and said she would even take a lie detector test if that's what it took. I never even brought that up.
> I asked her point blank if she had ever gotten physical and she said yes she performed oral on the guitar dude last October after everything blew up in July. After a band practice they all went to Buffalo wild wings everyone left except for them he invited her to jump in his truck they drove around Parked and you know the rest of the story.
> She swears nothing else happened she said she would take a lie detector test to prove that to me. Of course that dude is no longer with the band but still lives about 30 minutes away.
> She swears nothing else physical ever happened in my marriage or her previous marriage. She knows I'm thinking about divorce and talking with an attorney.
> 
> I feel like I've just been hit by a truck want to believe her but just don't know how much more there is to the story


She's still lying.

An admission of oral means they banged.

Either way, if he's married, expose to his wife.


----------



## badmemory

If you want to even consider R don't accept anything less than her turning over her phone. But don't be surprised if she has done a factory re-set by the time you see her.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

She is blowing up my phone, texting how horrible she is etc…
But still holding firm to nothing more happened.
I don’t know what to believe. I take it some cheaters NEVER admit to everything?
I have her really scared right now (and she should be) but she’s not budging from that story..


----------



## Lostinthought61

look Rocket....right now you are currently in control...so i would let her stew for the moment...

you need to sit down and you need to give her a list of demand

1. Certainly a polygraph is possible
2. what is she willing to do to save this marriage (in other words what heavy lifting is she willing to do?)
3. have her write down everything that happen, PA and EA
4. COMPLETE Transparency - all passcodes, no apps on the phone that you don't know about
5. STD testing....i don't care its in the past...this is about you health and well being
6. DNA the kids...sure they are your kids but it demonstrate how little trust you have in her...it send another message
7. But i would still see a lawyer


----------



## turnera

Schedule the polygraph for Saturday then.

Tell her you want a written timeline of every single time she has ever even considered straying, including things she knew you'd not be ok with, like flirting with the store clerk. Everything. Tell her it will be your guidebook and as you're considering whether to stay, you will be closely monitoring to see if she leaves out a single thing - and if you find out she did, all bets are off.

Keep the lawyer working. You can always call off the divorce down the road. 

Tell her you want her to sit down in front of her parents and yours and tell them what she did and apologize to them. This will be a good test if she's really contrite.


----------



## badmemory

Rocket Skates76 said:


> she said yes she performed oral on the guitar dude last October after everything blew up in July. After a band practice they all went to Buffalo wild wings everyone left except for them he invited her to jump in his truck they drove around Parked and *you know the rest of the story.*
> 
> *She swears nothing else happened she said she would take a lie detector test to prove that to me.*


As if what she did admit to wasn't enough for you to kick her to the curb. Her attempt to minimize this is laughable. 

She's trickle truthing of course.

Demand her phone and call her bluff on the polygraph. Then see what she does.


----------



## Yeswecan

Rocket Skates76 said:


> She is blowing up my phone, texting how horrible she is etc…
> But still holding firm to nothing more happened.
> I don’t know what to believe. I take it some cheaters NEVER admit to everything?
> I have her really scared right now (and she should be) but she’s not budging from that story..


Has what your W claimed happened something you believe you can live with even if there really is no more? Is that shadow of doubt always going to be there? 

Blowing up your phone. I'm a horrible person blah blah. For me, specifically the horrible person angle is manipulative. Do you think your W feels she is a horrible person or is this a ploy to get some sympathy?


----------



## Rocket Skates76

She just admitted to actually sleeping with that guy from her previous marriage at the hotel....

I'm still waiting on her for more trickle truth...


----------



## Rocket Skates76

ok just admitted to sexting the guitarist just a few days ago. she was in his hometown in a vocal competition the talked about meeting up afterwards, but she says that why she invited me, so she could say no. I didnt go, but she says she high tailed it out of there and came right home.


----------



## bankshot1993

You know, a theme I have noticed lately is how often I'm seeing where people have said"it was only oral"!!!!!

Like that is OK or something. Like, hey it isn't really cheating on you because we didn't have sex it was just oral. What on earth does that matter, it's called oral sex isn't it? So he penetrated a different part of her body other than her vagina, what is the difference? So she gave him a blow job and then came home and kissed you but because it was only oral it isn't serious enough to leave me. What if it had been anal? Is that Ok? hey it wasn't really cheating because it was only anal.

As far as I'm concerned if you got personal enough to see his freaking genitals its already more than serious enough to send you packing. It has nothing to do with whether or not any part of her body was penetrated. It was a betrayal and she was doing something with another man that she should only be doing with her husband, whether it was physical intimacy or emotional intimacy it was still a betrayal.


----------



## dubsey

Tell her to stop telling you stuff. Have her write out every indiscretion she can think of, in order and to hand over all her devices & passwords. You'll be filing for divorce anyway Tell her this is her one chance. It may not matter anyway, but without it, there is NO HOPE. But with it, there's a small chance that you'll halt the divorce proceedings. If you find ANYTHING, that wasn't on the list/timeline she gave you, there will be zero chance going forward, and you'll go scorched earth on everything.


----------



## Dyokemm

So you finally said 'no more'....made demands.....and when she failed to meet them, started taking steps to D.

And immediately the trickle truth starts......she is desperate now.

But now you know meth head was full PA, Guitar Hero was PA (don't buy the oral only crap), and heavens know what else.

I promise you.....she has still not told you it all.......because she is terrified if she does, that you will finish with the D you are preparing for.

As another poster said.....tell her to write out everything in a timeline......and then you will do a poly to ask the question, "Is the timeline you gave your BH complete and accurate?"


----------



## farsidejunky

Brother... I know you are hurting. I KNOW you are... 

Please listen to what you are hearing from folks here. It follows a script that is almost uncanny in how consistent it is from wayward to wayward.

Eliminate the torture of trickle truth be demanding the written timeline. 

The sooner you begin to listen to folks who have been there, the better your odds are of ending infidelity.


----------



## mickybill

bankshot1993 said:


> You know, a theme I have noticed lately is how often I'm seeing where people have said"it was only oral"!!!!!


I have heard too, actually three young women were having a "spirited conversation" in the booth next to me at a bar and one was saying that she never had sex with a mutual friend, she just blew him a few times...
Where were these girls when I was 25. >

Maybe it began with Bill Clinton "I did not have sex with that woman"


----------



## TRy

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I asked her if she had PAs, of course not she said. Seriously, I have never seen that sweet little girl that mad before, slamming her hands down on the table, veins in her neck popping out, yelling and crying how unfair this was and how upset I was making her





Rocket Skates76 said:


> I asked her if she was still screwing around on her phone...of course not! Then...my moment of clarity came.
> I told her to prove it to me. I have a program on my PC call Dr Fone that will retrieve even deleted text and messages, let's go hook your phone up.





Rocket Skates7676 said:


> She stared at me for 10 second like a deer about to get run over. She quickly changed the subject...I told her I was leaving for the night, she was full of it. She said, that's ok, I will move the kids back up to Missouri tomorrow by the time your off work and I hope you have fun with visitation and child support.





Rocket Skates76 said:


> I asked her point blank if she had ever gotten physical and she said yes she performed oral on the guitar dude last October.





Rocket Skates76 said:


> She swears nothing else physical ever happened in my marriage or her previous marriage. She knows I'm thinking about divorce and talking with an attorney.





Rocket Skates76 said:


> She just admitted to actually sleeping with that guy from her previous marriage at the hotel.





Rocket Skates76 said:


> ok just admitted to sexting the guitarist just a few days ago. she was in his hometown in a vocal competition


 Typical cheater’s script. First came the fake righteous indignations denials; saying there was never anything physical, and that the sexting had ended. Then came the false anger complete with yelling that you would even think such a thing. This was followed by threats to you unless you stopped digging for the obvious truth and accept her lies as fact. After you called her bluff, the trickle truth begins. Yes “she performed oral on the guitar dude last October”, but “swears nothing else physical ever happened” in your marriage, and that she is no longer in contact with guitar dude since he is no longer in the band. Then she “admitted to actually sleeping with that guy from her previous marriage at the hotel”. Next she admits to “sexting the guitarist just a few days ago”. 

There are only two things about your wife that you will ever know for sure. One, she is a serial cheater. Two, you will never know the full extent of her cheating.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Glad and sorry at the same time. Keep up the pressure. This is your window. Once she decides she's fvcked and there is no R she will turn on you and make you the bad guy again. So get it all in writing now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turnera

Just think what you'd know if you hadn't taken a stand and walked - NOTHING.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Something in me needs to hear her confess to more. I don’t think it will change a damn thing, but I want her to break and spill it all out tonight.
I’m sorry guys, I’m sure you are pulling your hair out reading my dribble.


----------



## MattMatt

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Something in me needs to hear her confess to more. I don’t think it will change a damn thing, but I want her to break and spill it all out tonight.
> I’m sorry guys, I’m sure you are pulling your hair out reading my dribble.


Not at all. You need it you should get it.

And we'll be here for you.


----------



## turnera

But understand that it will NOT turn out the way you think it will.

It never does.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

I don't understand what you mean by that...


----------



## Popcorn2015

@MickeyBill 



 (NSFW)
@Rocket Skates76 You know she's cheated on two different husbands and you should realize she's been with a lot of different guys. A LOT. Odds that this behavior will continue in the future are extremely high.


----------



## turnera

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I don't understand what you mean by that...


If you're referring to me, I've seen hundreds of betrayed spouses pass these pages and say 'all I need is to see her grovel' or "I just need to hear her confession" or some such. 

The truth is, that's YOUR world, not your cheating spouse's. THEIR world is protect myself, get what I can out of it, cover my ass. 

You won't get the miserable sobbing mess you're expecting and you'll walk away looking like a jerk.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rocket Skates76 said:


> She just admitted to actually sleeping with that guy from her previous marriage at the hotel....
> 
> I'm still waiting on her for more trickle truth...


...trickle trickle...



Rocket Skates76 said:


> ok just admitted to sexting the guitarist just a few days ago. she was in his hometown in a vocal competition the talked about meeting up afterwards, but she says that why she invited me, so she could say no. I didnt go, but she says she high tailed it out of there and came right home.


...trickle trickle...


----------



## GusPolinski




----------



## eric1

1. You are just going to get more trickle truth

2. You literally have no other option to assume the worst.

3. Proceed to legally protect yourself ASAP. 

You're not the only married dude she banged on the first date, while being married. But you know this already.


----------



## scaredlion

All BS's always believe there is more than they are being told and in the vast majority there usually is more and they keep getting the trickle truth. But in some cases there really isn't more to tell and demanding more doesn't mean you are going to get more. I know that POW's, when they don't know what the enemy wants, would make stuff up because it kept the enemy from continually beating on them. My wife had a long, long, long, EA. I was gone a lot which meant she was alone a lot. She said that nothing physical ever happened. Do I believe that? Would you? I am not one who just has to know every small detail. All I have to know is that it happened. I didn't ask her then if it was physical and I've never ask her since. Other than f--king with my mind, what would it accomplish. For the last 35 years we have had a wonderful loving marriage. I was a career Special Forces soldier who Uncle Sam had spent quiet a lot of money teaching me how to deal with combat situations and survive. If I had been told that it had been a PA then the I'm afraid the OP would have sustained substantial physical injury. This was 35 years ago when there wasn't something call "political correctness" in effect. I yearn for those days when an affair would get you an azz whipping. My point is if you are looking to R then other than "I just have to know" what are you going to gain? You already know she was physical, what more do you really need to know? In my eyes a BJ is on the same par as PIV. You have to decide if you want to R and you have to decide what the chances are that this will happen again. Only you can decide. If it was my wife and I could see that she really wanted another chance and was willing to work on the marriage and relationship I would give her that chance. I believe in second chances but don't really believe in thirds. Having read your thread neither of you have a good record of being faithful. Maybe it's time for both of you to hold on to each other and make this work. I do wish you well.


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## BobSimmons

Sorry to be a bit mean but there's a reason she targets guy's like you.

She's cheated before, cheated now in many cases she'd be out on her ear but here you are, she knows R is on the table, all she has to do is trickle truth her way slowly but surely, act heartbroken and boom she has a chance at R.

Twice married and cheating with not just one but multiple dudes? Come on man seriously


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## TaDor

Rocket, you get five points from me.

#1 - Sorry for your kids, period. They had no choice in having the both of you as parents. A mother who didn't think twice and even warned you she was leaving the state with the kids. (But you're the bad guy?)

#2 - (The Harsh from post-18month BS man) You kind of brought this on yourself. As stated above, you both are two different kinds of cheaters. I get that. I even give you a bit of sympathy for being "faithful" for 10 years and having four kids. But what happened to you, I wish and hope happens to my wife's affair partner in his future. Between him and I - it's personel. But he's an emo-druggie user type. He'd likely get some young woman pregnant and may find Jesus and give somewhat a crap about the kid and then cheat on her when he finds some other chick to cry on. Like a cheater, he's a liar. His "concerns" for me where fake - just as your wife is for you. You hurt at least two people by your own actions: Your ex-wife and you wife's ex-husband. You did it because you were "in love" and you have been faithful - so that means it was "OKAY" because you two were meant to be, you both knew each other like nobody else. Typical infidelity fog. With that said...

#3 - Your wife is a serial cheater. Look, the both of you were cheating on your previous spouses for three months. Not sure how well you did it, but she said "I love you" to her husband for months while cheating on him behind his back. What she did to him, she is doing to you. But this time is MUCH worse... young marriages (before the age of 25) are immature usually and now you have KIDS. You are older now. You have a more FAMILY oriented life now. I know the pain... and now you know the pain x4 (kids) x3 (men). Unless she pulls ALL the stops and does a complete list of requirements to somehow prove herself to you... there is no future for your marriage. 

Look, your wife has shown that she likes attention and penis of other men in her body. She's about 40 now... going on 50, then she'll be a grandma. The chances of her stopping is so small. What, three men that you know of, over the course of a few months? One of them, her previous husband ~ We can bet, he was smiling for more reasons than one. Another - a 20-something boy, makes her feel like a 20yr old girl (in reality, a single 20yr old male will get anything with a heartbeat) Other than being in her 2nd marriage with 4 kids (but can get child support) - she has little reason to stay. As others have said... "I ONLY gave him a blow job. It was only a few seconds". Think of your first night with her 10 years ago. She is lying. She is trickle truth. You may have to consider opening the marriage to keeping it, because there isn't much for her to stay with. She'll bang a few men a month if she was "single".
Options:
A - Try to do R, spend months getting to a place to start R. Years to get over it. Knowing she'd cheated with at least 4 men. (You and her ex-husband count)
B - Get divorced, co-parent.
C - become swingers or somthing. Let her get her fill from the side every now and then. Maybe you get yours. Likelyhood of success is still low and still require months/years of trust building. Can lead to another affair too.

#4 - Get a lawyer now. Get paperwork that would NOT allow her to remove the kids out of the state. She has just proven to YOU and everyone here that SHE *WILL DO IT*!! How long did it take her to come up with that? A minute? Seconds? Next say, she pulls the trigger. Lets say she decides she wants to divorce you, all she has to do is move to the other state, and file for divorce there. That means you will have to go to THAT court to deal with divorce and child-custody. Also, DON'T ever LEAVE THE DAMN HOUSE AGAIN! Move yourself back in before she comes back. If she has had sex with a meth head or something, document it and note its a safety issue to have her life in the same home with kids.

#5 - Don't talk to her or inteact with her without a VAR. Talk on the phone with her? Use a VAR. Get the SONY. Buy it from Walmart of Bestbuy with cash. Buy two of them. When she cried and admitted her actions, did you record it? Make sure its legal to do so in your state.

$6 - DON'T explode again. I've done it a few times. Talk to your lawyer and or the people here. When you confronted her, your evicdence waw weak. You had little game plan. we would have told you to NOT leave the home and have a lawyer ready to go.


If you divorce and date again... you better be honest with your cheating and betrayed past... to show her that you know cheating is bad.

good luck.

PS: A friend of my wife, did the same thing to his wife. In a matter of two weeks, she had sex with 3 co-workers. Her justifiation were lame. Reality is, she wanted to get laid by those 3 different guys.

PS2: Doing R is a challenge when the wayward had sex with one other person. Three guys? That's gonna be extra hard to get over.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

If it wasn’t for this forum, I would have made much bigger mistakes than I have. About a month ago when I really felt something in the air, that is when I found this site-and every day something sucked me in because something was ringing true, I just couldn’t put my finger on it.

I finally answered her call last night. Her being two states away, my keylogger and Dr. Phone are pointless. I didn’t think about recording the convo.
In a nutshell (actually it was an hour and a half):
-She WILL NOT with everything that is in her admit to any more than the story I have. 
-Obviously, the majority of the talk was her crying and snotting and telling me how sorry she was, dosent want to break up our little family, etc
-I told her I am going to continue on with the consultation at the attorneys next week because things still are not adding up and I need to evaluate my options
-She’s going to counselling today, and want’s us to go as well, and of course she will do what it takes for the rest of her life to make things right
-She just wants to come home
-I told her I don’t understand how you can go from giving a guy a BJ last October to hardly any contact (She said she didn’t see him once after), but then all of a sudden start sexting and talking about hooking up this last weekend…
-Do I just WANT TO BELIEVE there is more in my anger? That story tho…
-I sent her pic I found of her and guitar boys performance a few weeks later. It was his last performance with the band, they took such a sweet picture together, she was using her real smile, they looked happy. FYI I was there and at the previous Halloween show…clueless
-she gave me his number. I texted him last night. No answer. I want to see his side of the story. She said she has not spoken with him. I’m going to tell him I will be letting his wife know if I don’t hear from him.
-I told her what hurts as much as anything, is how she watched me struggle with depression and lunacy for a year, and kept her stuff hidden…I was the issue not her.

My next step is to get a thorough timeline from her. She is on her way to counselling right now. She has brought up a lie detector test very often. Either she’s legit or she’s throwing hail marys.


----------



## turnera

Carry through with the lie detector. Tell her nothing happens until you get the timeline and the instant you find out she lied about any of it, she'll never see you again.


----------



## farsidejunky

Rocket:

I know you are hurting brother, but I am going to be incredibly direct, and I really want simple yes/no answers. No long, drawn out reasons why, justifications, or any other nonsense. The time for nonsense is long gone, as you are seeing right now.

You have shown a penchant for disregarding what people here are telling you...until your WW confirms such that they were in fact right. Then you ask for help, disregard it, your wife trickles more truth, you ask for more help, you disregard, more trickle...lather, rinse, repeat.

Again, I need simple yes/no answers...not "maybe" or "only if I can do it without doing x", etc. Either you want it and are willing to do the things necessary, or you do not. It is that simple.

Do you want to end this infidelity?

Do you want to get the entire truth?

Neither has happened at this point, and neither will without decisive action.


----------



## ButtPunch

Rocket Skates76 said:


> If it wasn’t for this forum, I would have made much bigger mistakes than I have. About a month ago when I really felt something in the air, that is when I found this site-and every day something sucked me in because something was ringing true, I just couldn’t put my finger on it.
> 
> I finally answered her call last night. Her being two states away, my keylogger and Dr. Phone are pointless. I didn’t think about recording the convo.
> In a nutshell (actually it was an hour and a half):
> -She WILL NOT with everything that is in her admit to any more than the story I have.
> -Obviously, the majority of the talk was her crying and snotting and telling me how sorry she was, dosent want to break up our little family, etc
> -I told her I am going to continue on with the consultation at the attorneys next week because things still are not adding up and I need to evaluate my options
> -She’s going to counselling today, and want’s us to go as well, and of course she will do what it takes for the rest of her life to make things right
> -She just wants to come home
> -I told her I don’t understand how you can go from giving a guy a BJ last October to hardly any contact (She said she didn’t see him once after), but then all of a sudden start sexting and talking about hooking up this last weekend…
> -Do I just WANT TO BELIEVE there is more in my anger? That story tho…
> -I sent her pic I found of her and guitar boys performance a few weeks later. It was his last performance with the band, they took such a sweet picture together, she was using her real smile, they looked happy. FYI I was there and at the previous Halloween show…clueless
> -she gave me his number. I texted him last night. No answer. I want to see his side of the story. She said she has not spoken with him. I’m going to tell him I will be letting his wife know if I don’t hear from him.
> -I told her what hurts as much as anything, is how she watched me struggle with depression and lunacy for a year, and kept her stuff hidden…I was the issue not her.
> 
> My next step is to get a thorough timeline from her. She is on her way to counselling right now. She has brought up a lie detector test very often. Either she’s legit or she’s throwing hail marys.


A few points from someone who has been in your shoes.

First rule is to ignore her crying and such. Her actions are what matter. 

Second her individual counseling is good sign but do not agree to any couples therapy. It's too
soon and will give her hope. Quite frankly she needs to believe you are divorcing her for a little while.
Consequences for cheating and a counter measure for it ever happening again. If you do reconcile, she needs
to believe that you are capable of leaving her a$$.

Third you should not have not alerted the OM. There is nothing you need to say to him. You need to go ahead 
and alert his wife now. It's the right thing to do.

My two cents
BP


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Farside,
1)Too angry for good answer
2) yes.yes.yes.yes.

Just texted guitar boy few min ago. He stated nothing has EVER happened AT ALL. He’s a husband and father as well. I told him if I get solid proof of the contrary, its going to blow up over there.
I feel he didn’t want to say anything because maybe he didn’t know her story or simply just protecting himself and family.


----------



## eric1

So having two boyfriends, one of whom she has blown once, is materially different than having two boyfriends who she has blown more than once?


----------



## bandit.45

Screw the lie detector....screw all that. 

Burton do you know what a healthy relationship is? It is one in which the man and woman do nothing to bring misery and paranoia into each others lives. A good relationship is where both people care for each other enough not to want to maliciously or selfishly cause each other undue pain and fear. There is enough pain and fear and problems in life without a man and wife causing those for each other. Your wife is supposed to be your refuge and strength from pain. 

You have a bushel-full of reasons, right now, to divorce this woman. She should be moving heaven and earth to change her situation, stop all contact with the OM and convince you to give her another chance. Up to this point she has done nothing but lie, sneak, prevaricate and avoid. 

Her actions do not match her words. Watch what she does, not what she says. What she is doing right now is telling you that she does not respect you or value you.


----------



## ButtPunch

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Farside,
> 1)Too angry for good answer
> 2) yes.yes.yes.yes.
> 
> Just texted guitar boy few min ago. He stated nothing has EVER happened AT ALL. He’s a husband and father as well. I told him if I get solid proof of the contrary, its going to blow up over there.
> I feel he didn’t want to say anything because maybe he didn’t know her story or simply just protecting himself and family.


See now he will make up some story to tell his wife about how crazy you and your wife are. You even told him you don't have any proof.


----------



## farsidejunky

Too angry to say if you want the infidelity to end? I don't understand.



Rocket Skates76 said:


> Farside,
> 1)Too angry for good answer
> 2) yes.yes.yes.yes.
> 
> Just texted guitar boy few min ago. He stated nothing has EVER happened AT ALL. He’s a husband and father as well. I told him if I get solid proof of the contrary, its going to blow up over there.
> I feel he didn’t want to say anything because maybe he didn’t know her story or simply just protecting himself and family.


----------



## farsidejunky

Rocket, stop talking. Stop texting. That is your entire problem... Do you tell someone the moves you are going to make in chess? This is no different. Get a hold of yourself before you completely sink any chances of getting what you want.

Just be still for a minute. Nothing will change in that minute...I promise. Just take a deep breath...and be still for a minute. Okay?


----------



## Rocket Skates76

ok I am.

I'm going to go see "Baby Driver" to get my mind off things for a while and cool down


----------



## TDSC60

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Farside,
> 1)Too angry for good answer
> 2) yes.yes.yes.yes.
> 
> Just texted guitar boy few min ago. He stated nothing has EVER happened AT ALL. He’s a husband and father as well. I told him if I get solid proof of the contrary, its going to blow up over there.
> I feel he didn’t want to say anything because maybe he didn’t know her story or simply just protecting himself and family.


No proof??????

Your wife told you she blew him in his truck!!!


----------



## farsidejunky

Rocket, here is what you need to do, step by step.

1. Text the wife this statement:

"Wife, for now it is best that we communicate only by text. Your betrayal has earned divorce. I am consulting an attorney ASAP and preparing for such. Until and unless you provide me with a written timeline of every indiscretion with people outside our marriage, the divorce will go through as quickly as possible. This includes any communication, to include text, phone, messaging apps, dating sites, or ANY other means, to any person outside of our marriage, that was of a flirty or sexual nature. This includes the full name of the other person. This is your once chance to come clean about everything. Anything omitted from this timeline will result in my immediate filing. Failure to give me the timeline by Sunday will result in my immediate filing. Additionally, if I find any contact, of any kind, by an means, with any of the other people, from this moment forward, the marriage is over. The fate of our marriage is now solely in your hands. Choose wisely."

2. Do not answer any more calls from her. Only answer texts related to the kids. If she texts you with anything related to how sorry she is, or whether she is unsure what to put into the timeline, answer via text this way ONE TIME:

"Show me how sorry you are by providing what I asked for."
"If the marriage matters, the timeline needs to have everything."

Remember, only one time.

3. Call 3-5 attorneys today and schedule consults. See all of them ASAP, and pick which one feels the best to you.

4. Find a local polygraph company. Schedule it for next week if possible. 

5. No alcohol, drugs, or sedatives. You need to be sharp for this. Walk, run, work out. Do something to alleviate the anxiety.

6. Access any of her accounts to which you have login credentials, and look in all folders: sent, inbox, deleted, trash, etc. Forward copies or screenshots of any evidence to a secure email address which she cannot access. 

7. Say nothing about what you will be doing to your wife.

8. Do not reach out to any of the AP's. Yet. That time will come. 

Rocket, I am going to be honest with you. I don't think your wife packs the gear to be monogamous. Whether you choose to reconcile is up to you, but I think it is a losing proposition. That said, the steps I indicated above will get to the truth. There will be further steps if she provides the timeline, specifically related to the polygraph, but these are the steps you need to take today.

That is all for now. Can you do this?


----------



## ButtPunch

farsidejunky said:


> Rocket, here is what you need to do, step by step.
> 
> 1. Text the wife this statement:
> 
> "Wife, for now it is best that we communicate only by text. Your betrayal has earned divorce. I am consulting an attorney ASAP and preparing for such. Until and unless you provide me with a written timeline of every indiscretion with people outside our marriage, the divorce will go through as quickly as possible. This includes any communication, to include text, phone, messaging apps, dating sites, or ANY other means, to any person outside of our marriage, that was of a flirty or sexual nature. This includes the full name of the other person. This is your once chance to come clean about everything. Anything omitted from this timeline will result in my immediate filing. Failure to give me the timeline by Sunday will result in my immediate filing. Additionally, if I find any contact, of any kind, by an means, with any of the other people, from this moment forward, the marriage is over. The fate of our marriage is now solely in your hands. Choose wisely."
> 
> 2. Do not answer any more calls from her. Only answer texts related to the kids. If she texts you with anything related to how sorry she is, or whether she is unsure what to put into the timeline, answer via text this way ONE TIME:
> 
> "Show me how sorry you are by providing what I asked for."
> "If the marriage matters, the timeline needs to have everything."
> 
> Remember, only one time.
> 
> 3. Call 3-5 attorneys today and schedule consults. See all of them ASAP, and pick which one feels the best to you.
> 
> 4. Find a local polygraph company. Schedule it for next week if possible.
> 
> 5. No alcohol, drugs, or sedatives. You need to be sharp for this. Walk, run, work out. Do something to alleviate the anxiety.
> 
> 6. Access any of her accounts to which you have login credentials, and look in all folders: sent, inbox, deleted, trash, etc. Forward copies or screenshots of any evidence to a secure email address which she cannot access.
> 
> 7. Say nothing about what you will be doing to your wife.
> 
> 8. Do not reach out to any of the AP's. Yet. That time will come.
> 
> Rocket, I am going to be honest with you. I don't think your wife packs the gear to be monogamous. Whether you choose to reconcile is up to you, but I think it is a losing proposition. That said, the steps I indicated above will get to the truth. There will be further steps if she provides the timeline, specifically related to the polygraph, but these are the steps you need to take today.
> 
> That is all for now. Can you do this?


I really like this approach Rocket. Everything except the choose wisely part. I would drop that.


----------



## farsidejunky

ButtPunch said:


> I really like this approach Rocket. Everything except the choose wisely part. I would drop that.


Lol, pick nits much?

:grin2:


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Far side, 
Yessir that's a plan. 

I will keep ya'll updated.


----------



## farsidejunky

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Far side,
> Yessir that's a plan.
> 
> I will keep ya'll updated.


Good. I will make a few more suggestions. 

Be fully prepared to follow through with divorce. It is become rather cliche to say, but it is very true. In order to save your marriage, you must be willing to lose it.

Also, keep us apprised of any significant texts she may send you.

Alleviate your pain right now by focusing on the tasks at hand.


----------



## Dannip

Keep in mind. This timeline is also evidence she admits. You can still move forward with the divorce. 

That's chess. 

You can put the Divorce hold too. Thats leverage. Unless of course she'd rather live how she is now.


----------



## farsidejunky

Dannip said:


> Keep in mind. This timeline is also evidence she admits. You can still move forward with the divorce.
> 
> That's chess.
> 
> You can put the Divorce hold too. Thats leverage. Unless of course she'd rather live how she is now.


Precisely.


----------



## dubsey

Dannip said:


> Keep in mind. This timeline is also evidence she admits. You can still move forward with the divorce.
> 
> That's chess.
> 
> You can put the Divorce hold too. Thats leverage. Unless of course she'd rather live how she is now.


Or, you can just get divorced. I did. I'm still together with my ex-wife in a happily divorced state. Keeps both of us on our toes. Works pretty well, really.


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## Rocket Skates76

Got part one of her timeline. Will be getting part two after a while. Will get the details here and hope for objective opinion and thoughts


----------



## Rocket Skates76

So while I'm waiting on part 2, what I have so far is a more elaborate explanation of guitar boy this past year. 
Nutshell, began innocent and then worked just like the script said. They began talking about crappy spouses, crappy sex life etc. 
Initially it was one BJ in October. It morphed into two of those (of course quick ones) plenty of topless pics, dic pics, him jacking off to her pics. He would shoot her an instagram text, say he wanted a pic of her so he could his thing. Jesus. They met up before practice a couple times and walked around stores. She said anytime he would text her, she said she was ready. 
Of course she felt used etc. He would go weeks without touching base. 
Last week she promises was the first time in six months they've done anything. 
All he had to do was ask for a pic. They jacked off on the phone. Were going to meet up this last weekend but she got scared. 
I want to kill the guy. But it takes two to tango. 
Anyone thoughts?


----------



## GusPolinski

Rocket Skates76 said:


> So while I'm waiting on part 2, what I have so far is a more elaborate explanation of guitar boy this past year.
> Nutshell, began innocent and then worked just like the script said. They began talking about crappy spouses, crappy sex life etc.
> Initially it was one BJ in October. It morphed into two of those (of course quick ones) plenty of topless pics, dic pics, him jacking off to her pics. He would shoot her an instagram text, say he wanted a pic of her so he could his thing. Jesus. They met up before practice a couple times and walked around stores. She said anytime he would text her, she said she was ready.
> Of course she felt used etc. He would go weeks without touching base.
> Last week she promises was the first time in six months they've done anything.
> All he had to do was ask for a pic. They jacked off on the phone. Were going to meet up this last weekend but she got scared.
> I want to kill the guy. But it takes two to tango. *Anyone thoughts?*


Yep.

Divorce.


----------



## eric1

He's not even close to your problem and she's not even close to telling the truth.

She did it because she wanted to. That's why she did it. None of this being used crap. You don't risk everything in a full physical affair as she did if there wasn't something going on elsewhere in their relationship


----------



## farsidejunky

I don't believe you have the truth yet, either.

No more talk with her until she meets your demands for a COMPLETE timeline.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

How do you feel about part one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skerzoid

Rocket Skates76 

She's damaged goods. You will never forget what you read in these texts. Never. You need to become an alpha male quick. She and her druggie buddy and her boy-toy bad mouthed you while getting their jollies. I was a football coach for fifty years. When one of my players needed a wake up call I nailed the side of his helmet with my clipboard. They would get pissed and rip the opponent a new one. Consider yourself nailed! Now get out there and rip her a new one!


----------



## Rocket Skates76

More of the same from the second part. Info on the druggie ex-boyfriend, what was said over facebook. She said she would basically tell him things like ‘I love you’ and sext and fantasize about going to visit because she craved the attention. She never met up with him. 
She gave more detail about guitar boy as well, nasty phone sex, but once again, swore on her fathers grave intercourse NEVER happened. 
I told her this was her one chance at me even thinking about R. I told her I was still leaning towards divorce and was still going to go through with the consultation. 
She knows I think she did more. It seems like if she did, she would admit it. She gave some pretty heart churning details on the other stuff.
She’s told me “if there were more, I would put it on there. I’m not going to make things up that aren’t true just because that’s what you want to believe.” ”This is not fair I’ve told you everything”

Someone asked how I feel?
Lost. Hurt beyond words. Disbelief. Rage. Haunting Mind Images. Looking back at photos thinking everything was tainted. NEVER would you think something had ever happened just by looking at all the sweet pics we took.
I so bad just want to believe that is the end of it all, yeah I’m sick and angry, but there’s hope for us and our little family. My son turns 3 this month. I don’t cry but that last sentence just made me bawl like a baby all over my keyboard.
Yep.


----------



## jld

Rocket Skates76 said:


> More of the same from the second part. Info on the druggie ex-boyfriend, what was said over facebook. She said she would basically tell him things like ‘I love you’ and sext and fantasize about going to visit because she craved the attention. She never met up with him.
> She gave more detail about guitar boy as well, nasty phone sex, but once again, swore on her fathers grave intercourse NEVER happened.
> I told her this was her one chance at me even thinking about R. I told her I was still leaning towards divorce and was still going to go through with the consultation.
> She knows I think she did more. It seems like if she did, she would admit it. She gave some pretty heart churning details on the other stuff.
> She’s told me “if there were more, I would put it on there. I’m not going to make things up that aren’t true just because that’s what you want to believe.” ”This is not fair I’ve told you everything”
> 
> Someone asked how I feel?
> Lost. Hurt beyond words. Disbelief. Rage. Haunting Mind Images. Looking back at photos thinking everything was tainted. NEVER would you think something had ever happened just by looking at all the sweet pics we took.
> I so bad just want to believe that is the end of it all, yeah I’m sick and angry, but there’s hope for us and our little family. *My son turns 3 this month. I don’t cry but that last sentence just made me bawl like a baby all over my keyboard.*
> Yep.


I am sure it does. It must be terrible to think you may not see your children every day.


----------



## Dyokemm

Rocket Skates76 said:


> More of the same from the second part. Info on the druggie ex-boyfriend, what was said over facebook. She said she would basically tell him things like ‘I love you’ and sext and fantasize about going to visit because she craved the attention. She never met up with him.
> She gave more detail about guitar boy as well, nasty phone sex, but once again, swore on her fathers grave intercourse NEVER happened.
> I told her this was her one chance at me even thinking about R. I told her I was still leaning towards divorce and was still going to go through with the consultation.
> She knows I think she did more. It seems like if she did, she would admit it. She gave some pretty heart churning details on the other stuff.
> She’s told me “if there were more, I would put it on there. I’m not going to make things up that aren’t true just because that’s what you want to believe.” ”This is not fair I’ve told you everything”
> 
> Someone asked how I feel?
> Lost. Hurt beyond words. Disbelief. Rage. Haunting Mind Images. Looking back at photos thinking everything was tainted. NEVER would you think something had ever happened just by looking at all the sweet pics we took.
> I so bad just want to believe that is the end of it all, yeah I’m sick and angry, but there’s hope for us and our little family. My son turns 3 this month. I don’t cry but that last sentence just made me bawl like a baby all over my keyboard.
> Yep.


Wait.....I thought you posted that she admitted she had a full PA with this scumbag at the hotel just yesterday.

IS she now back to claiming she never visited him and had 'intercourse' at the hotel?

Oh...and of course Guitar Hero is denying everything......he is probably telling his BW right now that you are some jealous, abusive H and your terrified W probably said these things out of desperate fear to end your abuse.

He is poisoning the well for you exposing him by gaslighting his BW at this very moment.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rocket Skates76 said:


> More of the same from the second part. Info on the druggie ex-boyfriend, what was said over facebook. She said she would basically tell him things like ‘I love you’ and sext and fantasize about going to visit because she craved the attention. She never met up with him.
> She gave more detail about guitar boy as well, nasty phone sex, but once again, swore on her fathers grave intercourse NEVER happened.
> I told her this was her one chance at me even thinking about R. I told her I was still leaning towards divorce and was still going to go through with the consultation.
> She knows I think she did more. It seems like if she did, she would admit it. She gave some pretty heart churning details on the other stuff.
> She’s told me “if there were more, I would put it on there. I’m not going to make things up that aren’t true just because that’s what you want to believe.” ”This is not fair I’ve told you everything”
> 
> Someone asked how I feel?
> Lost. Hurt beyond words. Disbelief. Rage. Haunting Mind Images. Looking back at photos thinking everything was tainted. NEVER would you think something had ever happened just by looking at all the sweet pics we took.
> I so bad just want to believe that is the end of it all, yeah I’m sick and angry, but there’s hope for us and our little family. My son turns 3 this month. I don’t cry but that last sentence just made me bawl like a baby all over my keyboard.
> Yep.


She's still lying.


----------



## Chaparral

Simply tell her you're making an appointment with the polygraph folks. Check with law enforcement in your area to see who they use for polygraphs and follow through. This is assuming you can accept what you already know she has done for sure.
Odds are there is more.
Text her you now have to have your kids DNA tested. She needs to know nothing she says is believed with out verification.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Chapp, she has already told me to poly her she dosent care because shes telling me every painful thing.

Gus, here is the crazy thing. Something in me IS CRYING out to believe you. But as I have listened to her and read her timeline I’m caught between two worlds. Her timeline is actually quite detailed, somewhat painfully so. If she would put the BJ’s and constant pics and sexting…does she have anything to lose by putting they banged? That’s an honest question from someone who is still shellshocked. 

Something struck me as weird yesterday.
I have access to her facebook account (She may or may not know this),
But after I texted the OM that I knew stuff, he immediately apparently went to his wife and, yep,
Made me look like a lunatic…just like last year. So she messaged my wife, and my wife assured her they had not slept together and that she never told me such either. Well his wife was satisfied with that, my wife apologized and that was it.
So I asked my wife about it, why didn’t she come clean? Answer was because she wanted to spare his wifes heart.
I thought for a while. Maybe its me and ive been reading these boards far too long…but maybe she wanted to keep it a secret if possible without overtly looking like it.

And one more thing….
Day one revealed the oral sex (one time in his truck)
Day two timeline revealed twice and all the smut in between that took place.
My feeling is she would have possibly left it at day one had I not push for a timeline. She even said, she didn’t think I wanted all the horrible details…
Guys, what now? I’m too close to this to be objective.


----------



## farsidejunky

I wouldn't tell her about the poly appointment unless you have key loggers installed or a way to monitor her search history.

Just set the appointment and take her there. When you arrive, tell her why you are there.

Then comes the parking lot confession.

Definitely let her know you will be doing DNA tests on the children.


----------



## farsidejunky

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Chapp, she has already told me to poly her she dosent care because shes telling me every painful thing.
> 
> Gus, here is the crazy thing. Something in me IS CRYING out to believe you. But as I have listened to her and read her timeline I’m caught between two worlds. Her timeline is actually quite detailed, somewhat painfully so. If she would put the BJ’s and constant pics and sexting…does she have anything to lose by putting they banged? That’s an honest question from someone who is still shellshocked.
> 
> Something struck me as weird yesterday.
> I have access to her facebook account (She may or may not know this),
> But after I texted the OM that I knew stuff, he immediately apparently went to his wife and, yep,
> Made me look like a lunatic…just like last year. So she messaged my wife, and my wife assured her they had not slept together and that she never told me such either. Well his wife was satisfied with that, my wife apologized and that was it.
> So I asked my wife about it, why didn’t she come clean? Answer was because she wanted to spare his wifes heart.
> I thought for a while. Maybe its me and ive been reading these boards far too long…but maybe she wanted to keep it a secret if possible without overtly looking like it.
> 
> And one more thing….
> Day one revealed the oral sex (one time in his truck)
> Day two timeline revealed twice and all the smut in between that took place.
> My feeling is she would have possibly left it at day one had I not push for a timeline. She even said, she didn’t think I wanted all the horrible details…
> Guys, what now? I’m too close to this to be objective.


The timeline is written, correct?

Send the OM spouse the written evidence. This is exposure, but also a test. If your wife calls you angry, that means her and POSOM are likely still in contact.

"OBS, I am sorry to inform you of this but this happened between my wife and your husband. She also explained that they colluded to make me look crazy so you would believe him. Evidence for both is enclosed. Feel free to contact me at X number if you have questions. Sorry."

Send her a screenshot of the FB message and a picture of the written confession from your wife.

Then text your wife:

"It is unfortunate that you continue to lie to protect your betrayal. That is exactly the behavior that drives me toward divorce."


----------



## GusPolinski

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Chapp, she has already told me to poly her she dosent care because shes telling me every painful thing.
> 
> Gus, here is the crazy thing. Something in me IS CRYING out to believe you. But as I have listened to her and read her timeline I’m caught between two worlds. Her timeline is actually quite detailed, somewhat painfully so. If she would put the BJ’s and constant pics and sexting…does she have anything to lose by putting they banged? That’s an honest question from someone who is still shellshocked.
> 
> Something struck me as weird yesterday.
> I have access to her facebook account (She may or may not know this),
> But after I texted the OM that I knew stuff, he immediately apparently went to his wife and, yep,
> Made me look like a lunatic…just like last year. So she messaged my wife, and my wife assured her they had not slept together and that she never told me such either. Well his wife was satisfied with that, my wife apologized and that was it.
> So I asked my wife about it, why didn’t she come clean? Answer was because she wanted to spare his wifes heart.
> I thought for a while. Maybe its me and ive been reading these boards far too long…but maybe she wanted to keep it a secret if possible without overtly looking like it.
> 
> And one more thing….
> Day one revealed the oral sex (one time in his truck)
> Day two timeline revealed twice and all the smut in between that took place.
> My feeling is she would have possibly left it at day one had I not push for a timeline. She even said, she didn’t think I wanted all the horrible details…
> Guys, what now? I’m too close to this to be objective.


She.

Is.

Still.

Lying.


----------



## farsidejunky

GusPolinski said:


> She.
> 
> Is.
> 
> Still.
> 
> Lying.


Yep.


----------



## TX-SC

She's still lying and she is defending her boyfriend by not coming clean to his wife. She is a serial cheater and simply does not value you or your marriage. The crying and begging is her way of manipulating you into continuing to support her and the kids while she gets off free. 

At some point you simply have to realize that your wife is not a good wife. She is a manipulative cheater. If you stay with her it will happen again, guaranteed. I am generally pro R, but your situation really calls for D. See an attorney and find out what your life and finances will be like without her.


----------



## Dannip

Hint from the cheater script. 

If they swear on their children, parents grave or anything sacred they are lying. 

If they've never cheated, they would never think of saying it this way. They would just say I have not cheated. Funny that.

One BJ usually means dozens or more. Frequently. Also full on sex is extremely likely. 

I mean come on. It's like a parent hearing their 16 year old daughter say "I'm only a little pregnant".

You've established it is not an EA.


----------



## GusPolinski

TX-SC said:


> She's still lying and she is defending her boyfriend by not coming clean to his wife. *She is a serial cheater and simply does not value you or your marriage.* The crying and begging is her way of manipulating you into continuing to support her and the kids while she gets off free.
> 
> At some point you simply have to realize that your wife is not a good wife. She is a manipulative cheater. If you stay with her it will happen again, guaranteed. I am generally pro R, but your situation really calls for D. See an attorney and find out what your life and finances will be like without her.


She doesn't value marriage _period_.


----------



## farsidejunky

TX-SC said:


> She's still lying and she is defending her boyfriend by not coming clean to his wife. She is a serial cheater and simply does not value you or your marriage. The crying and begging is her way of manipulating you into continuing to support her and the kids while she gets off free.
> 
> At some point you simply have to realize that your wife is not a good wife. She is a manipulative cheater. If you stay with her it will happen again, guaranteed. I am generally pro R, but your situation really calls for D. See an attorney and find out what your life and finances will be like without her.


This is an important position to consider, Rocket.

You now have enough to know she is a serial cheat. You have executed to the point of having what I suspect is most of the truth.

How much truth is enough?

What will you do with it now that you have it?

Do you realize that serial cheaters rarely change?

I told you my methods would get to truth. They have. Now what?


----------



## farsidejunky

GusPolinski said:


> She doesn't value marriage _period_.


She does value marriage, just not in a typical way. She values it because it gives her a sense of self. If she did value marriage, she wouldn't be fighting to keep it. Granted, it is a dysfunctional way to value marriage.

What she clearly does not value is monogamy.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Ok just sent OM’s wife my wife timeline. 
I had no way to reach her, so I thought I would throw out a feeler to my wife to see what she thought? 
You know, she was fine (at least over text). She even told me I was welcome to use her Facebook messenger account.
So I did.
FYI, she is still 10 hrs away in Missouri not here w me at the house


----------



## farsidejunky

Stop asking her opinion. FFS, she is not on your team at this point. 

Start treating her that way.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Farside,
I wasnt after her opinion. I wanted to gauge her reaction.


Whether we R or D…I NEED all of the truth.
With the nature of her horrible deception for over a year, even if what I have is 100% truth, true R to me almost seems impossible.
I am determined to poly her when she gets back into town. I am not bringing it up nor will I again, so she thinks that possible bluff of hers won. 
She also will be certain I am following through with the divorce consultation and options.

If it weren’t for this site, I would have believed here ages ago…I’m serious, she has some mystical power of persuasion. You I’m sure have never seen anything like it.


----------



## alte Dame

This is a very sad thread.

You, Rocket, had the strength to 'withstand' the hurt that you unleashed on your innocent exBW. Now, however, you can't manage to find your manhood to stand up to a woman who clearly controls you.

Sad.

Your WW is needy. She needs constant validation in the form of someone actively romancing and desiring her. When the current love interest stops feeding her need, she moves on.

You fed her when you rushed off to find your bliss with her, dumping your poor ex in the process.

What you didn't realize - and haven't realized yet - is that you stopped feeding her need some time ago. She's moved on to fresher sources.

She can't totally move on, though, because of the kids. Better in her mind to control you, to slap you down and keep you in your place, while she 'gets her needs met' elsewhere.

Again, if you found the strength to walk away from your ex in the face of her utter pain, how is it that you can't find the strength to see your M for what it is and your WW for the selfish manipulator she is?

Even if your heart won't accept it, your head should be able to and if you can find your honor, you can discipline yourself to follow your head.


----------



## GusPolinski

farsidejunky said:


> She does value marriage, just not in a typical way. She values it because it gives her a sense of self. If she did value marriage, she wouldn't be fighting to keep it. Granted, it is a dysfunctional way to value marriage.
> 
> What she clearly does not value is monogamy.


Having a dude around to put up with your **** without questioning it isn't what I'd term marriage.

Marriage is an equitable partnership founded on love, respect, honesty, and devotion.

That's not what they have, and she clearly doesn't place any value in such an arrangement.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Ok just sent OM’s wife my wife timeline.
> I had no way to reach her, so I thought I would throw out a feeler to my wife to see what she thought?
> You know, she was fine (at least over text). She even told me I was welcome to use her Facebook messenger account.
> So I did.
> FYI, she is still 10 hrs away in Missouri not here w me at the house


IIRC, if your wife blocks the OMW the messages won't show. How convenient for her and the OM.


----------



## Primrose

Or you can create your own Facebook account, that your wife has no idea about, and message the OMW yourself. Most likely this message will be intercepted by the OM.


----------



## eric1

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Farside,
> 
> I wasnt after her opinion. I wanted to gauge her reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whether we R or D…I NEED all of the truth.
> 
> With the nature of her horrible deception for over a year, even if what I have is 100% truth, true R to me almost seems impossible.
> 
> I am determined to poly her when she gets back into town. I am not bringing it up nor will I again, so she thinks that possible bluff of hers won.
> 
> She also will be certain I am following through with the divorce consultation and options.
> 
> 
> 
> If it weren’t for this site, I would have believed here ages ago…I’m serious, she has some mystical power of persuasion. You I’m sure have never seen anything like it.




The issue is that by telling her you now have no way of unearthing if she is still in contact with her boyfriend.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Timeline update:

Did not communicate w her yesterday at all. She has this thing about her right now, send me pics of the kids, text me she loves me and how she has hope etc
She is doing that because it's worked in the past on me. So this morning I sent her a very sterile email. I no longer care that you are withholding truth and sounding like the victim (of guitar man) in your timeline. 
You had your one opportunity. 
I am now officially saying divorce will happen. Pick a day to come down and get your ****. 

Of course the tear stained text began to flood in about how her timeline was 100% legit because she figured I was going to try and polygraph. She gave me what I asked for. Etc etc
Holding out hope etc etc
Ok nothing more I can do, I will come down this week get my stuff and discuss financials etc. But still of course, she has hope etc etc

So. Any ideas what her next move is?
My legal appointment is tues as well
What you think she's going to do? Is it normal if there is still deception for them to hang on to it this doggedly?


----------



## GusPolinski

What does it matter?

Isn't what she's admitted to enough?


----------



## farsidejunky

Her next move doesn't really matter, Rocket. You hold all of the cards, you just refuse to see it because of fear.

What is your goal in all of this? Are you walking away? Do you want to reconcile?


----------



## MJJEAN

She doesn't have some mystic ability to make you believe her when she lies. She had an exH who wanted to believe her when she was lying to him and now she has a current H who wanted to believe her when she lies to him. That's all. No big mystery. Just a woman who can lie passably well and a couple men who desperately wanted to believe.


----------



## TRy

Rocket Skates76 said:


> My legal appointment is tues as well


 You have your "legal appointment" on Tuesday the 4th of July? I take it that you do not live in the U.S.?


----------



## Rocket Skates76

And therein lies my fear. I don't think I will ever believe her story thus far. objectively, she is evil. 
But on the other hand, I've been in the fog before myself, surround by my love and life, and none of that even registered, just the affair fix. 
Her doings I feel are on another level tho. 

Perfect perfect world:
I'm about to be crucified here I know but, I follow through with the divorce, we stay separated, she comes totally clean and it is verified. She spends huge amounts of time in therapy getting to the root. Then, only then, we work on us together. 
The likelihood of that tho is fucced.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Sorry appt wed. My bad.


----------



## farsidejunky

MJJEAN said:


> She doesn't have some mystic ability to make you believe her when she lies. She had an exH who wanted to believe her when she was lying to him and now she has a current H who wanted to believe her when she lies to him. That's all. No big mystery. Just a woman who can lie passably well and a couple men who desperately wanted to believe.


I wish I could like this post twice.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Rocket Skates76 said:


> And therein lies my fear. I don't think I will ever believe her story thus far. objectively, she is evil.
> But on the other hand, I've been in the fog before myself, surround by my love and life, and none of that even registered, just the affair fix.
> Her doings I feel are on another level tho.
> 
> Perfect perfect world:
> I'm about to be crucified here I know but, *I follow through with the divorce, we stay separated, she comes totally clean and it is verified. She spends huge amounts of time in therapy getting to the root. Then, only then, we work on us together. *
> The likelihood of that tho is fucced.


There's nothing wrong with hoping for that. The problems come in when you start filtering what's happening through the lens of your hopes rather than the stark, unfiltered reality of her _actions_. So don't do that. :smthumbup:


----------



## turnera

Her next step will probably be to paint you black and try to get everyone to guilt you to take her back.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

She is pushing MC hard. She is pushing fixing herself hard. She is pushing one more chance hard. Those are the 'actions' as of late. 

I told her she could have a couple weeks In the house (of course I'm elsewhere) to collect all their stuff and figure out arrangements. 

Possible scenario:
Tries to use kids to manipulate me or re contact guitar hero.


----------



## turnera

Tell her she is welcome to prove herself to you - from another home.


----------



## honcho

Rocket Skates76 said:


> She is pushing MC hard. She is pushing fixing herself hard. She is pushing one more chance hard. Those are the 'actions' as of late.
> 
> I told her she could have a couple weeks In the house (of course I'm elsewhere) to collect all their stuff and figure out arrangements.
> 
> Possible scenario:
> Tries to use kids to manipulate me or re contact guitar hero.


She's going to use the kids to manipulate, she's gonna keep in contact with guitar clown and she's gonna keep pushing/manipulating to believe she will "fix herself", go to Mc etc etc.

Of course she won't fix herself and nothing will truly change. Your getting lip service to humor you and get what she wants. If you let her back in the house your going to be stuck with her. She won't leave. After a couple of weeks she won't have a new place arranged, she won't be packed. 

Your keeping yourself in the eye of the hurricane right now. Stop talking to her. Go meet the lawyer and file for divorce. If she truly wants to save things she would willingly go get appointment for therapy and such all on her own without you setting conditions. Let her actually do some hard work on her own instead of you listening to talk about what she's probably never going to do. 

Step back from the storm, your not doing yourself any good keeping your emotions controlling you.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Timeline update:
> 
> 
> Of course the tear stained text began to flood in about* how her timeline was 100% legit because she figured I was going to try and polygraph.* She gave me what I asked for. Etc etc


 So it's about the poly and herself, not about your healing or being a safe partner. No remorse there. You are doing the right thing with the exception of hoping she will get herself figured out and squared away after the divorce. just move on with no expectations.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Personally I think you should also schedule a poly

You seem to need that

And frankly, if you end up back together you will save two other people the trust issues of being in a relationship with a former cheater

Don't mean to sound like a **** but maybe you guys are appropriate for each other 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## alte Dame

I predict that her next moves will be:

- Continue to hoover you: "I'm completely honest! I'll take a poly! I'll reform, etc., etc.

- If you bite and decide to give her a chance, then she will:
--> Chuckle to herself that she snowed you again and be thrilled that she has you 'under control.'
--> Go underground with her cheating.
--> Quickly return to her controlling contempt for you.

- If you stay strong and stick with the D, then she will:
--> Move quickly from tears to nasty anger (think the girl in the Exorcist). This is where the mask falls off and the real person comes out.
--> Defend herself by going on the offense, not just by using the kids, but by blackening your name with friends and family.

I frankly don't think you have any good choices, just the best of the bad, thus I agree that you should stay firm about D.


----------



## Dyokemm

Rocket Skates76,

I'm still confused.....did she flip her story from 'full' PA with meth head in the hotel.....back to 'I never met up with him'?

From your posts that's what it appears she did......but the TT with Guitar Hero seems to have grabbed all your focus.

If she first admitted this, and is now backtracking, that is a huge issue IMO......it shows she is nowhere near being honest.

Why would she initially admit to something she is now suddenly claiming didn't happen?......generally speaking, TT and continued deception don't go in REVERSE, but that's what it appears she is doing with meth head.

Or maybe I'm just confused from your posts.


----------



## GusPolinski

MC?

LOL.

This chick needs IC.


----------



## Diana7

You married a cheater, as did she. Practically all such marriages end with cheating, not surprisingly.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Dyo,
No, meth head was a boyfriend from her teen years. Got deployed, too old for her, etc. She only admitted to an EA with him over Facebook 12/2015. 
Guitar boy was 6/2016-11/2016 and then unexplained hiatus until last weekend. PA sketchy details. 

Disclaimer:
I realize this is Karma. Reaping what I've sown. Fully deserve it. 
I get that. I got that 170 posts ago. 
But I'm not here for your sympathy. And I respect the volatile nature of this subject. 

I am here ONLY because many of you can see 20/20 through your life experiences and have seen this script play out hundreds of times. 
My full intent is to file for D. She's already went to a therapy session yesterday. She's going to do backflips I know. 
I will stay the course. 
There is way more than enough for divorce, but she is sticking by her guns on the timeline and that bothers me.


----------



## turnera

There was a poster here who set his cheating wife up in an apartment and left her there for a year. She literally spent that year doing penance. Working, seeing the kids, doing nothing else. After a year, he was conflicted, and last I remember, he was giving her another chance, because she HAD spent that past year in penance.

That's why I push for letting her prove herself from another home. If she's just begging to get you to pay her way financially, she won't stick around for a year in her own place without looking for another guy to pay her way. Or if she now need instant gratification, she won't wait around for you, and that will be good information for you to know. You're in no hurry.


----------



## Dyokemm

Rocket Skates76 said:


> She just admitted to actually sleeping with that guy from her previous marriage at the hotel....
> 
> I'm still waiting on her for more trickle truth...


OK....so in this post #117, who was she admitting sleeping with at a hotel?

I'm a little confused, because the only OM you mentioned in relation to a hotel was Meth Head......that you had seen their communications of room bookings etc.

Is this something she admitted to in YOUR M?.....

Or is she admitting to you for the first time she actually did have other PA's (other than you) in her first M?

If it is something from her first M.....well other than it reinforces she has been lying to you for a long time, who really cares.

I mean after all, you KNEW she was a cheater....because you were one of her OM's....is it really that big a deal to YOUR M that you were not exclusive in that role?

But if this incident was in YOUR M, but was not Meth Head, who did she screw in some hotel?

Is there an OM#3?

I admit....other than what you have said about the A with Guitar Hero....I'm a little confused about what else you have discovered.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Man, you got me turned arounds backwards now as well 😊
The actual OM PA at a hotel was in her previous marriage with her soundguy (OM1). That’s the one she always told me she met him there to tell him she could never go thru with whatever, he kissed her and she ran all the way home confessing; it was a full on PA she revealed.

She then in our marriage had the Methman (OM2) all wrapped up in an EA. The fantasy was a hotel…It looked like there was even a reservation?? IDK. I should have looked closer when I came across the email. She explained he was just trying to stir up trouble out of spite. Also, during this EA, the mapquested Super8 in his hometown was part of a fantasy.

Actually, in her timeline, she revealed Guitar boy (OM3) and her flirted around with going to one of the local casino hotels because he got free rooms there.
All 3 of these stories I learned about 2 days ago.


----------



## Tobyboy

Have you heard back from guitar boys wife?


----------



## turnera

The only thing I would add is that, given what we know about boys and sex, it's a fair bet that no matter what SHE intended, any guy she was messing with was interested ONLY in sex


----------



## ES21

Wow I read through all of this, Im not surprised you stuck it out so long, most people do the same when the feel stuck. You have kids and you don't want to leave because she brings home a little money, she takes care of the kids while your working and your afraid to leave because you've never been on your own and deep down you are hoping your wrong and its you. Well at first thats how you felt, as evidence builds you come to grips with what you must do knowing that she'll probably get the kids, you'll pay child support, she'll be spreading for the new guy and leaving him at home with your kids while she continues her adventures.
It always the pastors daughter, women, like men always build up how good of an upbringing they had when they are scoundrels through and through. People who are truly good normally talk down about themselves, they see their own faults and exaggerate them because thats how they see them. Ugly people are a little braggadocios and overly confident.
Im a P.I and I read these post to gain insight into cheating peoples behaviors, what they think etc. 
Thanks to Rocket Skates76 for being thorough and letting us in on his perceived Karma. 
Don't blame Rocket Skates76 because his first marriage failed, so Rocket has a withdrawn, self admitted boring personality. He should not have to change just because some years later his wife blames him for her affair, or in the case of the first wife something wasn't right or you would have never been tempted to cheat. 
Its a lot of work to stay married, over time people become regretful at what could have been (mostly women) and blame their spouse for their unhappiness in life, thats not fair, everyone is responsible for their own happiness and when you find yourself unhappy, thinking a new start will make it better your doomed to repeat the past. People need to learn how to handle the marriage at the 5, 10, and 15 year marks. It has nothing to do with love or commitment its likened to running a business, but I must add there needs to be a basic friendship with your spouse because people change physically, emotionally and in maturity and its not someone elses job to make you happy nor can they be blamed for getting fat, more sensitive or less, and for growing up into what adults should grow up into when they have kids, when the kids are gone hopefully you didn't sit around sulking and complaining the past 18 or more years becoming fat, unhealthy, unable to make love to the point all you could ever have is friendship with your spouse.
Thats why most of our parents always said don't rush or they told us our health is all we got.
That of course is the perfect scenario and most of us had problems in life, abusive parents, lack of education or opportunity in life so for those posts blaming and damning Rocket you better look in the mirror and hope your spouse is really where they say there are.
Good luck Rocket, leave her, take the kids and collect child support from her. Get an attorney first and listen to him, don't feel guilty and fight for everything even the dishes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rocket Skates76

GusPolinski said:


> She.
> 
> Is.
> 
> Still.
> 
> Lying.


This post I keep coming back to.
As you stare into the dark void,
Is that just a general feeling or are their specific markers firing off at you?


----------



## eric1

No. She's still lying because that's the nature of trickle truth.

She is either bluffing or leaving something else out that is major, and because she's given you 'everything' on the paper she cannot possibly be lying. Possibly other men, depth of emotion or similar

The other point to you is does it matter? She had a full-on boyfriend who went on dates and did get physical. Who gives a crap the *volume* of it at this point?


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## TheTruthHurts

Rocket Skates76 said:


> This post I keep coming back to.
> 
> As you stare into the dark void,
> 
> Is that just a general feeling or are their specific markers firing off at you?




Naw Gus just never believes the lies, makes a quick judgement, and dismisses the rest of the story as meaningless babble. Not saying he's right or wrong, just that he doesn't sweat the details once he thinks he has a handle on things


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## TRy

Rocket Skates76 said:


> This post I keep coming back to.
> As you stare into the dark void,
> Is that just a general feeling or are their specific markers firing off at you?


 The markers that I see are that, including when she cheated with you on her first husband, she has cheated with at least 4 other men that you know of. That makes her a serial cheated, and serial cheaters are unapologetic liars. She has also changed her stories a number of times, with them still not sounding true. The truth is much easier to remember than made up lies.


----------



## turnera

Take yourself out of the picture. If you saw a friend married to this woman, would you believe her?


----------



## drifting on

Rocket

Please listen to Turnera and Gus, the other posters are dead on too, but Gus and Turnera have been right this entire thread. She admitted to oral, do you honestly think it stopped there? So she gives pleasure but gets none? Does this sound like your wife? As soon as you pressed she took the kids and ran, ask yourself this one question. If this were you, would you run away proclaiming this is all that happened? No, it's easy to admit through text or email, no emotion involved. She can set her phone down and walk away whenever she wants. 

If she were in front of you, the situation for her would be so much different. Where can she go when you press, can you see the nervousness in her when she lies? No, because she is far away in the comfort of being away from you. At this rate trickle truth could last a week!! Tell her you want the truth, contact OM's wife then don't answer your wife for two days.


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## bankshot1993

Rocket Skates76 said:


> This post I keep coming back to.
> As you stare into the dark void,
> Is that just a general feeling or are their specific markers firing off at you?


Rocket,
I dont want to sound like a broken record but my question is why does it matter at this point? 

Lets assume for one minute you have all the info, lets give her the benefit of the doubt and believe that despite her past history of lying and cheating, she is going against character and actuallly telling the truth. Does it matter?

Are you ok with having to tell your wife to brush her teeth before she kisses you when she gets home becuase you dont know who shes been servicing today? Shes had EA's at least 2 PA'S. She has given you a really good glimpse of what your future is going to hold. At this point forward the rest of the hurt is on you because she has done everything she could to show you who she really is and you still have your head in the clouds.


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## turnera

What happened was, she ran home to mommy, who probably gave her hell, and now that she's not getting the support she expected, she's trying to reclaim her position.


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## Rocket Skates76

I am following through with the divorce, regardless if I get anything more or not.
With the facts at hand, there is no reversing that kind of damage; when I must have a few drinks to just relax enough so that when I close my eyes my imagination doesn’t sink me, things are really wrong.

It’s therapeutic typing things out to you, so feel free to skim. 

Do you know I confronted her exactly a year ago about text she was deleting to this guy? I will never forget the feeling of it being 2v1, me of course being the 1. They cooled for a couple weeks, discovered Instagram 5 sec videos or something that auto delete, and that’s when things really started to get filthy. She would send him numerous ‘topless’ pics and he would send her videos of him pleasuring himself to her pics. That’s what she told him she liked early on. That set the table for her (2) excursions in his truck.
The Evil is also seen in her watching me for the next FULL year struggle silently in the face of gaslighting, table turning, blame shifting. I almost lost my very nice paying job because I couldn’t focus.
And then, NC really for 8 months, he sends her maybe 3 text, and boom they’re right back at it, talking about hooking up two weekends ago?

The facts I have now are vile and as stated, D will happen. BUT, I’m the type regardless, I still want all the truth.

I will go NC for the next two days as you said. I threw my phone and it no longer works anyways.

BTW, the Oms wife saw the file. I sent it through my wife’s Facebook messenger account, but I’ve not heard anything. I have no way of getting ahold of her.


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## TX-SC

You are on the right path. Focus on getting through this divorce. Focus on yourself and your kids. The unfortunate truth is that you married a very flawed woman. She simply can't stay faithful. It's not in her blood to be so. 

I think, and this is just my opinion, that what I would focus on is her blatant disregard for your feelings and how she has treated you basically as a second choice throughout this affair. Heck, throughout your marriage, if we are to be honest. 

It's easy for a person to be manipulated with tears when the person they have loved so very much cries and begs forgiveness. Just think back to how she watched you suffer while she basically called you controlling and crazy. This woman is NOT your friend.


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## ABHale

Rocket Skates76 said:


> There is way more than enough for divorce, but she is sticking by her guns on the timeline and that bothers me.


One thing, is what she has admitted to in the time line enough for you to divorce?

If so, stop with analyzing the situation. It will not do any good to keep questioning it. She cheated and go from there.


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## turnera

Life's too short to stay with a woman who'd send topless pix to another man.


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## Yeswecan

turnera said:


> Life's too short to stay with a woman who'd send topless pix to another man.


Amen!


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## Rubix Cubed

TheTruthHurts said:


> Naw Gus just never believes the lies, makes a quick judgement, and dismisses the rest of the story as meaningless babble. Not saying he's right or wrong, just that he doesn't sweat the details once he thinks he has a handle on things
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And he's batting 1000 on accuracy. Of course to bet against him would be a sucker bet on this particular subject.


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## TheTruthHurts

turnera said:


> Life's too short to stay with a woman who'd send topless pix to another man.




Many women won't send nudes to their own BF or spouse. I hope my daughters will realize once a photo or video is out there, it's out there... So sending to someone who has so little character that they'd be banging a married woman is really having no regard for where the pics end up... except the only person she doesn't want to see them is actually YOU @Rocket Skates76.That's pretty fubar 


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## TaDor

You learned about OM1, OM2 and OM3 in the past few days. Those are people she interacted with many times, work-with etc. Considering her cheating nature, those are the easier ones to catch. You know what is a lot harder? ONS, out of town trips and picking up someone at a bar and doing it in a hotel room or bathroom or a car. "What he won't know - can't hurt him" would be her mentality. I've had sex in bathrooms and cars. I've had sex with women with little conversation... seriously. Like 5~15mins of talking... and saying "wanna do it?" and get a yeah. Hell, there were two guys hitting on a woman I had talked to an hour earlier - trying to score. I took her hand and said "lets go" - gave her a look and a sly smile. She followed me to a motel and we had sex. I've seen drunk women easy offer sex to me and others. I've had a women walk by and take my hand and say "lets go to my place" at a bar. She was attractive but NO, I didn't do it... I have standards! Give me at leat 5 minutes to know something about you (heheh). 

Point is. A woman can get sex very easily. Many make a living doing it. It can be quick and nobody will know it. I can't really think of any woman who gave me a BJ and just the BJ. It only takes seconds to change positions, drop pants or panties and do the deed.

I was going to type one thing... but will write something else since you seemed to change your mind to go forward with the Divorce. 

Since she knows you have threaten divorced and have taken the kids two states over. She would be a threat to do it again. If for some reason you go for (R) - remember this. And she cheats again - don't warn her. Just file.

So here is the important part. The state you live in currently. Is it the state you wish to live in or the other one? Because of your job and family, etc that you want to stay in your current State?
If the answer is "I want to remain in my state". then you need to do the following.

1 – Give her rules and chances to come back home with kids to work on reconciliation / R.
2 – go through the motions of R. But no sex yet. “you are not ready for it”.
3 – But you are seeing lawyers.
4 – File for Divorce, see what you can do to have her leave the home. 
The child/divorce will then be IN YOUR state. She cannot take the kids OUT OF the state without your permission. She cannot MOVE with the kids to another state WITHOUT your permission.

If she files for D in her parent’s state and has the kids there. Oh well… you have a lot of driving to do as the legal battle will be moved.

If you are going to do this. Do NOT drop hints hat you are moving towards D. If you spook her anymore, you are at risk.


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## TaDor

TheTruthHurts said:


> Many women won't send nudes to their own BF or spouse. I hope my daughters will realize once a photo or video is out there, it's out there... So sending to someone who has so little character that they'd be banging a married woman is really having no regard for where the pics end up... except the only person she doesn't want to see them is actually YOU @Rocket Skates76.That's pretty fubar


You'd be surprised... the younger the generation, the more likely they would. Very few women I've meet in the years of digital photos have refused to have nude or sex photos taken.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Rocket Skates76 said:


> She is blowing up my phone, texting how horrible she is etc….


LOL. The first *truth* you've probably ever gotten from her.


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## Rocket Skates76

That is part of the struggle.
Without getting too Graphic, she enjoys the HELL out of BJs. AND, she gets extremely turned on as well while performing the act. Women have a hard time cooling down cold turkey. She has a MONSTROUS sexual appetite and a body (even at 40) to die for.

Her side of the story, 2 ½ months, only did it twice. He would feel bad and ignore her for a couple weeks. Hit here up again at practice, repeat. Only twice???

AND, BOTH times they were in parking lots at night in his truck and she was nervous as hell she said. Because she said first time 5 minutes or so, second time 2 minutes. I’m supposed to believe she hopped out as soon as he did his thing???

That’s her PA story, and I'm having a hard time buying it.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Rocket Skates76 said:


> That is part of the struggle.
> Without getting too Graphic, she enjoys the HELL out of BJs. AND, she gets extremely turned on as well while performing the act. Women have a hard time cooling down cold turkey. She has a MONSTROUS sexual appetite and a body (even at 40) to die for.
> 
> Her side of the story, 2 ½ months, only did it twice. He would feel bad and ignore her for a couple weeks. Hit here up again at practice, repeat. Only twice???
> 
> AND, BOTH times they were in parking lots at night in his truck and she was nervous as hell she said. Because she said first time 5 minutes or so, second time 2 minutes. I’m supposed to believe she hopped out as soon as he did his thing???
> 
> That’s her PA story, and I'm having a hard time buying it.


She sounds like my ex sister-in-law - a dog in heat. Always happy to take it *any* way she could get it - it didn't matter with who and it didn't matter where. Your wife's parents must be SO proud.

I'd have a hard time believing ANYTHING she was trying to sell. Be sure to get yourself STD tested since she sounds like a walking, breathing Petri dish.

You gambled on a known cheater and you lost. Not going into the karma thing, just stating a plain fact. You knew she was a snake when you picked her up - and as predicted, she bit you. You've been bitten many times - some you know about, some you* still* don't.


----------



## drifting on

Rocket Skates76

Ask her if she would believe this story with the roles reversed. Then advise her that at this point you couldn't even believe a polygraph test. Tell her the only way is truth, and that truth is probably never ping to come from her.


----------



## Thor

TaDor said:


> If she files for D in her parent’s state and has the kids there. Oh well… you have a lot of driving to do as the legal battle will be moved.


She may not have the legal residency in the other state. She can file but OP can challenge her status. In my state it requires 6 months residency iirc to have legal standing to divorce here. While she may be using her parents' home as an address, she may not have a drivers license from that state. Most states have something like a 30 day requirement to get a license there once you establish residency. She probably has no signed lease, and deposing her parents might scare them because they don't want to get charged with perjury. She probably has no utility bills in her name there.

So there is a good chance if she hasn't been gone very long that OP can prove she is still a resident of *his* state. Filing in *his* state asap would be the smart action if the above is all true for his situation. A lawyer should be consulted immediately.


----------



## farsidejunky

Thor said:


> She may not have the legal residency in the other state. She can file but OP can challenge her status. In my state it requires 6 months residency iirc to have legal standing to divorce here. While she may be using her parents' home as an address, she may not have a drivers license from that state. Most states have something like a 30 day requirement to get a license there once you establish residency. She probably has no signed lease, and deposing her parents might scare them because they don't want to get charged with perjury. She probably has no utility bills in her name there.
> 
> So there is a good chance if she hasn't been gone very long that OP can prove she is still a resident of *his* state. Filing in *his* state asap would be the smart action if the above is all true for his situation. A lawyer should be consulted immediately.


This is solid advice for your state. Either way, consulting an attorney is absolutely necessary.


----------



## sokillme

Rocket Skates76 said:


> She is pushing MC hard. She is pushing fixing herself hard. She is pushing one more chance hard. Those are the 'actions' as of late.
> 
> I told her she could have a couple weeks In the house (of course I'm elsewhere) to collect all their stuff and figure out arrangements.
> 
> Possible scenario:
> Tries to use kids to manipulate me or re contact guitar hero.


Truthfully your best option is to fix yourself. You are very dysfunctional. A healthy person would have run away from this (figuratively speaking, I get you have kids) long long ago. Unfortunately you are really not in any position to have a healthy relationship because YOU are not healthy. Eventually you may be and maybe by some miracle she will be but I think honestly if you were to get healthy you would just want to move on from this train-wreck.

The things you describe about your wife make her good in bed, not a good wife.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

TaDor said:


> You'd be surprised... the younger the generation, the more likely they would. Very few women I've meet in the years of digital photos have refused to have nude or sex photos taken.




While I don't doubt your experience I'm 100% certain I live in a different area with different social circles. And I've warned my kids they live in a bubble - the world at large is diverse and they should not assume others, no matter if they look and act "normal", have the same values and standards.


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## Noble1

Sorry to hear about your situation.

At least it seems like you are taking the solid advice provided to you.

Maybe you could get your wife to directly confirm her 'PA' story with the other wife which would show you that she is no longer protecting her boyfriend and is willing to give up something special to her in order to show you her remorse.

Not saying you should change your mind about moving ahead, but her "willing" to out the boyfriend may provide more benefits to you when moving forward.

Good luck,.


----------



## honcho

Rocket Skates76 said:


> That is part of the struggle.
> Without getting too Graphic, she enjoys the HELL out of BJs. AND, she gets extremely turned on as well while performing the act. Women have a hard time cooling down cold turkey. She has a MONSTROUS sexual appetite and a body (even at 40) to die for.
> 
> Her side of the story, 2 ½ months, only did it twice. He would feel bad and ignore her for a couple weeks. Hit here up again at practice, repeat. Only twice???
> 
> AND, BOTH times they were in parking lots at night in his truck and she was nervous as hell she said. Because she said first time 5 minutes or so, second time 2 minutes. I’m supposed to believe she hopped out as soon as he did his thing???
> 
> That’s her PA story, and I'm having a hard time buying it.


It's not really part of the struggle. You know her, you know her past and you know the story is a lie and this is why you need to divorce her. Your never going to get the honest full truth from her and while we all want that in these situations it never happens. Your getting yourself hung up on details rather than the big picture. Does it make a difference if it was 5 minutes or 50 minutes? Only twice, we'll once should have been a deal breaker for you. 

At some point she may go along the lines that "I only did it once" and it was quick and I didn't enjoy it and wanted to stop yada yada yada.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rocket Skates76 said:


> That is part of the struggle.
> Without getting too Graphic, she enjoys the HELL out of BJs. AND, she gets extremely turned on as well while performing the act. Women have a hard time cooling down cold turkey. She has a MONSTROUS sexual appetite and a body (even at 40) to die for.
> 
> Her side of the story, 2 ½ months, only did it twice. He would feel bad and ignore her for a couple weeks. Hit here up again at practice, repeat. Only twice???
> 
> AND, BOTH times they were in parking lots at night in his truck and she was nervous as hell she said. Because she said first time 5 minutes or so, second time 2 minutes. I’m supposed to believe she hopped out as soon as he did his thing???
> 
> That’s her PA story, and I'm having a hard time buying it.


Not my quote, but a gem nonetheless...

"When it doesn't make sense, that's because it's not the truth. When you have the truth, it will make sense."


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## BobSimmons

Rocket Skates76 said:


> That is part of the struggle.
> Without getting too Graphic, she enjoys the HELL out of BJs. AND, she gets extremely turned on as well while performing the act. Women have a hard time cooling down cold turkey. She has a MONSTROUS sexual appetite and a body (even at 40) to die for.
> 
> Her side of the story, 2 ½ months, only did it twice. He would feel bad and ignore her for a couple weeks. Hit here up again at practice, repeat. Only twice???
> 
> AND, BOTH times they were in parking lots at night in his truck and she was nervous as hell she said. Because she said first time 5 minutes or so, second time 2 minutes. I’m supposed to believe she hopped out as soon as he did his thing???
> 
> That’s her PA story, and I'm having a hard time buying it.



Curious use of capital letters..


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## TheTruthHurts

Btw I'm ok with it just being twice. Who says that can't be the case. Look at all the married guys here who would love to get 2 bjs in a month.

Sometimes it's the game that's exciting. Just having a guy attracted to her and considering sex with her might have been plenty arousing. And I get that sneaking away could have been problematic

So it could very well have only happened twice. I don't know if that matters


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## eric1

So if she loves BJs that much then that was as intimate as PiV. 

It's still a physical affair and it still doesn't matter how many times she had relations with him


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## OnTheRocks

I think you guys are being played. Things here are progressing too quickly for real situations.


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## Rocket Skates76

I’ve already stated in the grand cosmic scheme of things, it doesn’t matter the amount. The end result will be the same.
My mind though has always had to have the details; I’m beginning to realize though, those may never come.
It is what it is.


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## eric1

You will never get all the details and soon you will realize that is doesn't matter. It's called pain shopping and it's a way for you to rationalize not making a decision.

She had a full-on emotional and physical affair. Period. You don't need to know more than that.


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## SunCMars

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Something in me needs to hear her confess to more. I don’t think it will change a damn thing, but I want her to break and spill it all out tonight.
> I’m sorry guys, *I’m sure you are pulling your hair out reading my dribble.*


Yes and No, Yes and no...........yes and no....

You are the one pulling your hair out. Yes, You!

You are pulling your hair out...the mind games, the [trigger-thinking-imagining], about the DRIBBLE coming out of HER mouth and out of HER vagina. 

All that juice...none of it yours'....not your DNA. She created her own DNA....Dirty, Nasty, Adultery.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Update: operation limbo

She has been back in town for 2 days w the kids. I let her have the house so my kids could enjoy a little normality and stability. Wednesday I met with the attorney. Two options: no fault is one year. With fault much quicker and requires proof. MUCH more expensive as well. 
And the thought of the OM being subpoenaed and questioned I love. I could maybe fill in more blanks. 

I've been staying at my brothers place. Really hard w kids here and the emotion between my WW and myself. 

Still bothered by the fact she has stood her ground on timeline. I can't drop that even as I move forward w things.


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## dubsey

you have her timeline written out, correct? Wouldn't that be considered proof?


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## Rocket Skates76

Possibly. She sent it to me in email format which he said could be an issue. I do have email tho saved and tucked away.


----------



## farsidejunky

Get back in your house. Now.

I don't care how much it hurts. Do not vacate until and unless advised so by your attorney.

Get back in your house. Now.


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## Taxman

I would still subject her to a polygraph. If you need the details, then there really is one way, and one suspects that you will get a "parking lot confession" just before the poly.

The painful truth is that you already know that you must divorce. It isn't the blow job, it is the gaslighting and blameshifting that you got out of her for a year. It is plainly angering that waywards will literally drive the poor betrayed spouse absolutely crazy, make them doubt their thought processes, convince them that the affair is all in their heads. That is simply enough that when they are found out, they should be alienated from just about everyone. One client of my business partner signed himself into a facility. He was convinced that he was delusional. He talked for two weeks in group therapy, and even the group thought that his story made too much sense to be untrue. On that basis, he left the facility, but did not tell his family. He hired a PI, and holed up in a hotel for a day or so. The PI was successful within hours. He showed up at his wife's office. She attempted to call security as she wanted proof of his unstable nature. She stopped when he produced the first photograph. It was of her and her boss leaving a hotel. He told her that he just visited the boss' wife, the company HR department, THEIR GROWN CHILDREN, her mom, his mom, in fact everyone she convinced that he was delusional. The one conclusion that was universally reached was: she is totally evil. The courts relieved her of a significant amount of her funds. She lost her job. So did the boss. The boss lost his marriage, and blamed her. Our client is living well, he is single and is dating. His ex wife now has a very bad relationship with her children, they are finding it very hard to even like a woman who was trying to push her husband into a mental facility, if not actually trying to push him into suicide. She has also found that once one fishes off the company pier, it is REALLY difficult to find another pier.


----------



## bandit.45

Get back in the house. You don't need your WW filing abandonment against you.


----------



## farsidejunky

How are you holding up, Rocket?


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Thank you for asking. 
I feel like anyone would. Dr Jekyll mr Hyde, up then down, strong then weak. 
I am not a roadmap of perfect execution with everything that has been suggested but TAM has put me in the drivers seat. 
My wife and I have met twice since she has been back. She knows my plans, although the state of LA makes it supremely difficult. 
She has in no way changed or revised her timeline. I am not weak, but I am seeing true remorse in her. I sat with her in view of preparing for a polygraph and dug deeper into her story. A few finer details but nothing changed. She's supremely frustrated because she says I'm wanting to here what really never happened and I'm beginning to believe her. 
She knows w the evidence at hand though, that's an easy D. She's taken it on herself to go ask my different family members for forgiveness. She still struggles I hear w taking all the blame, "he didn't really always provide 'X'" or whatever; so either she was sincere or doing some damage control. 

I told her not to have false hope because she's so hopefull we can work things out and understands it would take a loooooong time. 
I told her that is more than I'm prepared to bare. I just need a fresh start in life. 
The only glimmer I have given her is that if she passes a poly (if I go that route) I would then maybe consider working towards something, but only after she seriously focused on herself first. 
I go back and forth on that though. 
Break it off permanently or break away and watch her actions and gauge truthfulness.


----------



## turnera

Any consideration for reconciliation should be on a years timeline and not a months one. You'll go through a lot of feelings, and it will take time. So don't make any real decisions for now. You're doing great. And go ahead and do the poly.


----------



## TaDor

You also need to move back into your house. She can sleep in a guest room, sofa, garage. You've been told this before and after you left the house. If you want to be in a position of being "in the drivers seat" - running away to sleep elseware isn't the way to do it.

I and others will not likely agree that you are seeing remorse. Maybe somewhat with asking for forgiveness.
Time will tell, easily years. I still strongly recommend (okay demand) that you use a VAR or two and hear what she says to her friends about YOU. We’ve heard it all before, when a wayward will be doing R – but with her friends, she’s stabbing you in the back and her friends will cover for her. Happened to me.

It sucks…. And you have 4 kids to have to go through with this – R or D. BTW, I hope you teach your kids that infidelity is a very bad thing to do and that you will be upset with them.

And yep, the UP and down, weak and strong, depression. Now you are starting to experience what your wife’s EX husband and your EX wife went through when you both cheated on them. You can bet her husband tried to talk sense into her when she ran-off with you.

You don’t know it yet. But until she really feels bad about what she has done to you and makes the effort to proof that she wants to be faithful to you… you won’t feel secure with your trust in her. You just won’t ever know either. There is a reason that the success rate between two cheaters who are EA/PA making a successful marriage is so dismal. Less than 1%.

You both need to read books about infidelity and get counseling on how to heal and resolve issues. This is gonna take a while.

PS: The way you are feeling now... is somewhat how remorse should feel like.


----------



## farsidejunky

As long as she lays any blame at your feet she is a poor candidate for R.

You were not loving enough? She should have spoke up.

She wanted more intimacy?
She should have spoke up.

You did not meet her needs?
She should have spoke up.

When a ship has a hole and is sinking, her answer was to drill another hole. Now that the ship is sinking faster, she wants to blame you for her choice to do so? Does that pass the smell test?

I will say it again: she is a terrible candidate for R. She is a serial cheat. She has little remorse. 

If you reconcile with her, I would bet a substantial sum of money you will be betrayed again. Only this time she will hide it better.


----------



## TaDor

TheTruthHurts said:


> While I don't doubt your experience I'm 100% certain I live in a different area with different social circles. And I've warned my kids they live in a bubble - the world at large is diverse and they should not assume others, no matter if they look and act "normal", have the same values and standards.


I felt that we were starting to threadjack this important topic. So for us and others to do so safely, I have started another thread in another area of the site. Hopefully its in the right place.

Go here to contiune: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/social...elf-nudes-poses-bf-husbands.html#post18141586


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Yes that has been the unexpected 'fly in the soup' so far. Both my brother and mom said she would work some of my shortcomings into her tearful apologies. I have no doubt she felt she was doing the right thing but I think her heart was revealed somewhat as well. 

The house. 
This is where you and I diverge. We rent. When this all blew up last weekend, I was happy to just say F the house. She was gone and I was in a very large home by myself. She came back w kids I left. It is merely a temp place for her because she doesn't make much beyond leading worship for a local church (she quit the band). Said she became someone she didn't recognize over the past year...sexy, drinking w band, chain smoking. 

I am going to do the VAR and have the perfect spot. That sounds fun. 

I have limited my contact w her the best I can. I blew it once. We met to 'talk' at Starbucks. It was two hours of her crying and pleading and myself accusing her of still hiding stuff. Interaction Went nowhere except to our bedroom that night with me waking up the next morning feeling disappointed in myself. 

So I try to stay away for now, going to pick indoor soccer back up, and try to do some me focused stuff. 
Reading, LOTS of reading to better understand the past present and future. 

Something wants to believe we could manage. 
Something in me believes I could never trust her again fully though. 
Something wants to STILL believe she is lying. 
This sleep paralysis I have allowed myself to remain in needs to be shaken off and I need to send a clear message of 'no hope'.


----------



## farsidejunky

Then create a step-by-step plan. Lay it out here. You know if it doesn't make sense you will get 2x4's.

BTW, the house thing...it has nothing to do with possession, and everything to do with you leaving yourself vulnerable to accusations of abandonment. In turn, this can impact custody and support, which the latter sounds like a huge factor based on her employment history.

You really struggle listening to people who have been there, brother. A wise man learns from others mistakes. A fool learns from his own.


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## JustTheFacts

Stay strong ! Stay in the house. Good luck.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Anyone ever read anything on pulling up auto GPS tracking history?
I.e. Where they were at etc


----------



## honcho

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Yes that has been the unexpected 'fly in the soup' so far. Both my brother and mom said she would work some of my shortcomings into her tearful apologies. I have no doubt she felt she was doing the right thing but I think her heart was revealed somewhat as well.
> 
> The house.
> This is where you and I diverge. We rent. When this all blew up last weekend, I was happy to just say F the house. She was gone and I was in a very large home by myself. She came back w kids I left. It is merely a temp place for her because she doesn't make much beyond leading worship for a local church (she quit the band). Said she became someone she didn't recognize over the past year...sexy, drinking w band, chain smoking.
> 
> I am going to do the VAR and have the perfect spot. That sounds fun.
> 
> I have limited my contact w her the best I can. I blew it once. We met to 'talk' at Starbucks. It was two hours of her crying and pleading and myself accusing her of still hiding stuff. Interaction Went nowhere except to our bedroom that night with me waking up the next morning feeling disappointed in myself.
> 
> So I try to stay away for now, going to pick indoor soccer back up, and try to do some me focused stuff.
> Reading, LOTS of reading to better understand the past present and future.
> 
> Something wants to believe we could manage.
> Something in me believes I could never trust her again fully though.
> Something wants to STILL believe she is lying.
> This sleep paralysis I have allowed myself to remain in needs to be shaken off and I need to send a clear message of 'no hope'.


Her going to your family was more a calculated risk on her part than remorse. She is going to use them to try and convince you to R. She is still working you to get what she wants and your a willing participant. 

Your heart tells you to manage which is rugsweep
Your brain tells you that you can't ever trust her again
Your brain tells you she is still lying

Which are you going to listen to?


----------



## Thor

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Anyone ever read anything on pulling up auto GPS tracking history?
> I.e. Where they were at etc


Nope but if you have the details post them in the evidence thread. Somebody may know. Google may help, too.

There are a variety of GPS trackers you can buy and install. Some plug into the OBDII port under the dashboard and other than a repair shop nobody would ever notice it. Some attach in the trunk, under the hood, or other places you can hide it.

If she has an iPhone you can check out her frequent locations. Settings>Privacy>Location Services>System Services>Frequent Locations. If this has been activated on her phone it will show where she frequently goes. If it is not activated you can turn it on. When I turn mine on it does not send any email or text alerts.


----------



## scaredlion

Considering the background of life with you and your wife it is time to call a halt to all the drama. She says she has told you all there is to tell. Like all husbands, that have had to deal with your situation, you believe there is more. Maybe there is and maybe there's not. To be honest, if there is more information what are you really going to gain from it? You already have all the information you need to make any decision you want to make. You have two things to consider. (1) Do you still love your wife? (2) Are you better with having her in your life or without her. You started over in life with her once before. You can again. Take her back and draw a line in the sand. Tell her if she ever steps over that line again there will be no excuses. The marriage will be over. No talk, no "I'm sorry please forgive me", no "I made a mistake", just the end to everything. Most people's answer to your situation is, divorce immediately. Much of the time that is the answer but sometimes it not. I believe in second chances. Anything after that I believe in a "scorched earth policy". Give the second chance a try. I wish you well.


----------



## Dyokemm

scaredlion said:


> Considering the background of life with you and your wife it is time to call a halt to all the drama. She says she has told you all there is to tell. Like all husbands, that have had to deal with your situation, you believe there is more. Maybe there is and maybe there's not. To be honest, if there is more information what are you really going to gain from it? You already have all the information you need to make any decision you want to make. You have two things to consider. (1) Do you still love your wife? (2) Are you better with having her in your life or without her. You started over in life with her once before. You can again. Take her back and draw a line in the sand. Tell her if she ever steps over that line again there will be no excuses. The marriage will be over. No talk, no "I'm sorry please forgive me", no "I made a mistake", just the end to everything. Most people's answer to your situation is, divorce immediately. Much of the time that is the answer but sometimes it not. I believe in second chances. Anything after that I believe in a "scorched earth policy". Give the second chance a try. I wish you well.


I agree with you on every point but one.

You are right that the info that Rocket doesn't know is irrelevant to his decision on R or D, in and of itself.....what he already knows for certain is bad enough.

But in one aspect, if his WW is withholding truth it is EXTREMELY relevant IMO.

IF she is still hiding facts.....then she is STILL LYING....and that fact would make R nearly impossible IMO.

Trying to R with a WS who still finds it acceptable to lie to and deceive their BS is insane......if they are still lying THEY ARE STILL WAYWARD.

A huge part of any A are the lies and deception.....as long as they continue, the A has not truly ended IMO.

Other than this point, I think the rest of your points are spot on.


----------



## skerzoid

" Anyone ever read anything on pulling up auto GPS tracking history?
I.e. Where they were at etc." 


If you go to myactivity.google.com, and if her smart phone is synced to google, then you can see her activity on google such as searches and such. But you can also track her phone using the timeline function on this site. This only tracks her phone though and must be turned on and left on. It shows day by day movements and keeps a record. It also only works if she keeps her phone with her. It is also useful to get rid of your searches on the phone or on your computer if you used any google function and can be erased. Google keeps these records anyway but you can erase all of these function records including youtube views. Shows any google activity. The erasure does not erase searches on your phone or computer, just google's history of them.


----------



## GusPolinski

farsidejunky said:


> As long as she lays any blame at your feet she is a poor candidate for R.
> 
> You were not loving enough? She should have spoke up.
> 
> She wanted more intimacy?
> She should have spoke up.
> 
> You did not meet her needs?
> She should have spoke up.
> 
> When a ship has a hole and is sinking, her answer was to drill another hole. Now that the ship is sinking faster, she wants to blame you for her choice to do so? Does that pass the smell test?
> 
> I will say it again: she is a terrible candidate for R. She is a serial cheat. She has little remorse.
> 
> If you reconcile with her, I would bet a substantial sum of money you will be betrayed again. Only this time she will hide it better.


Exactly correct, every single word of it.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

She is 'accepting' the divorce. I agreed to meet w her one last time last night for an hour at Chili's because she promised she had more 'truth' for me. It was a guise to just cry and plead, and also I know she was gauging my resolve by bringing up where they were to live afterwards etc. 
I only ordered water which meant when th BS got too thick I could get up and roll. I did. 
So this morning woke up to her text of 'letting me go in her heart and accepting divorce' mess. 
Word.


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## farsidejunky

No more investigating now. Any more of that is just you pain shopping.

See the attorneys and get the process rolling.


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## JohnA

You are acting out while in pain and not considering the future. You have seen an attorney but only shared how long the divorce wil take. Please reciew this link Louisiana Divorce Source: family law, custody, alimony, support, and visitation. @EleGirl has been very helpful with others in your shoes. 

Custody, Child support, spousal support how is that going to work out? It does not seem as your wife works, does she? What type of dad ade you? 

Perhaps you should chose the one year requirement providing you can do an in house separation. Which is it's own special type of hell if she decides to start dating. Instead of MC insist on IC instead for six months. Also ask you attend the first session to provide the basic information on the status and history of the marriage. Note, a WS at times lies and conceals information from the IC. Gee, what a surprise. You should also seek IC. You suggested that you at times been hurtful to your wife and ex. Deal with that and fix it. 

Ask yourself, why the hell should anyone want to marry me. Accept what cannot change and change what can be changed.


----------



## KaggyBear

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I left my wife to re-connect with her; she left her husband as well (although it turned out he was already involved in an affair).
> But she's BEAUTIFUL (seriously) so I have to count myself lucky I guess.



lmao. You're really lucky alright. You also sound like a great guy who isn't shallow and who doesn't leave his wife for a more beautiful woman at all.


----------



## JustTheFacts

KaggyBear said:


> lmao. You're really lucky alright. You also sound like a great guy who isn't shallow and who doesn't leave his wife for a more beautiful woman at all.


:iagree:


----------



## pbj2016

KaggyBear said:


> lmao. You're really lucky alright. You also sound like a great guy who isn't shallow and who doesn't leave his wife for a more beautiful woman at all.




Sarcasm at its finest.


----------



## eric1

Thinking of you dude. It's an understandably tough time. We know how crappy it can be.


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## Chuck71

B'76.... you have been given A-1 advice. If you haven't yet, move back into your home. You have been left

with no choice but to D her. She is not R material. Once a liar / cheat, always liar / cheat. Course there is 

always that 5% chance they learn... but in your gut you will always wonder. That is not a life to live. More a tortured 

soul destroying one. I have a question.... is the fact you will have to pay alimony, CS, etc. for the next 15 years 

playing a factor in you possibly wanting a R. You hear all the time on the threads, the woman files 80% of the time.

I would say so, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.... well until the Karma bus comes. "Would you rather

rugsweep everything and try to pretend to have a happy life, near your kids daily, live in a nice home, and MAYBE one day

have a devoted W?" Might be why so many men are hesitant in filing for D. Nothing like living in a studio

apartment (college dorm), living paycheck to paycheck, eating 23 cent noodles (college life), paying your XW for 

HAVING multiple affairs. Oh... she will get the house, because she will be primary guardian of the kids, even though

it is 50 / 50. You will pay her enough where she can stay at the house, have the kids under your medical plan, but

be laid up with another loser thug, who is... sleeping in your bed, and seeing your kids more than you. Don't blame your

low life cheating spouse.... she is just taking what she can get. Blame the legal system, they approved and honor

this system. B'76... you are screwed either way you go.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

I appreciate the continued feedback and sentiment. You guys feel like brothers and sisters. 
Update:
Per LA law, I have decided upon a twelve month separation which would then qualify us for an immeadiate D. The 'at fault' immeadiate is fairly expensive and w the prospect of an apartment etc, regretfully I will pass on. 
My WS continues to go to counseling and say all the right things, have all the right revalations and so forth. She is at the point of, at least verbally, taking 100% of the blame. She desperately wants me to move back in and work together on MC. 

She knows my stance tho is still D and therefore will not. I tell her I'm glad of what she is realizing, but I still DO NOT trust her or even her story still. 

She had the paperwork to file a '201' when she found out I wasn't R but decided not to because she said I'd been screwed enough and shouldn't be screwed with spousel support on top of everything else. I was impressed silently. As she needs money, I will simply provide that. 

Finally after a decade got back into indoor soccer last night...paying for it today lol. 

Rage. Numbness. Relief. Hurt. Confusion. Hate. Disgust. Empathy.


----------



## pbj2016

Rocket Skates76 said:


> snip snip
> 
> Finally after a decade got back into indoor soccer last night...paying for it today lol.
> 
> Rage. Numbness. Relief. Hurt. Confusion. Hate. Disgust. Empathy.



All that from playing indoor soccer??!!  sorry couldn't resist.

You sound like you are in a healthier place. Good on you.


----------



## Chuck71

B'76.... be aware that it is very likely her owning it will quickly turn to lashing out at you

and painting you black, while she sits in that cushioned victim chair. If she loved you so much....

didn't it cross her mind what she might be throwing away? Like teenagers... she speaks / does

before she thinks. With your parents nearby.... can they help with watching the children?

Reason I ask... I hope you request she get a job. B'76 you are the age I was when my M blew apart.

There are tons of women out there..... you just need to choose wisely. Casual dating.... go for it.

But be cautious when it comes to wanting the next LTR. There are lots of damaged people out there.

They bandage themselves up really tight, appear to be this "great catch" and are.... for about 

8-12 months. Then those bandages start to drop.... one by one by ten by thirty.

Rediscover some hobbies you loved years ago. Involve yourself in some IC to find out why

you are attracted to certain women. Make sure your STBXW doesn't hop up and take the kids

nine damn hours away again just because she has a schit-fit. As part of your healing.... it would

be wise to apologize to your XW. Don't go into detail as to why you are.... just let her know you

carried a lot of guilt for what you did. You never said you did but by your posts, I am certain 

you did. 

I will not elaborate unless you, B76, ask me to. Your STBXW reminds me a LOT of my 1st love.

She was my HS sweetheart.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Good stuff. 
Yeah, I have never forgiven myself for the damage I caused my ex wife. She thankfully married a better man than myself a long time ago. 
I think I will. 

I voluntarily started IC about 4 mo ago. She has been excellent throughout this ride. 

I'm Reading "post infidelity stress disorder" at her recommendation.


----------



## bandit.45

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Good stuff.
> Yeah, I have never forgiven myself for the damage I caused my ex wife. She thankfully married a better man than myself a long time ago.
> I think I will.
> 
> I voluntarily started IC about 4 mo ago. She has been excellent throughout this ride.
> 
> I'm Reading "post infidelity stress disorder" at her recommendation.


Rocket have you ever thought of writing your ex-wife a heartfelt letter apologizing for the way you acted?


----------



## Rocket Skates76

I have thought in the past about something along those lines but was always at a loss on exactly what to say. Obviously now I have a better grasp on being empathetic. I suppose something along those lines would possibly do as much for me as it would for her. I will think about that and look into it My employer could tell I was very unstable with everything going on and gave me two weeks paid leave so I have plenty of time on my hands.


----------



## TX-SC

I wouldn't think that would be respectful to your ex wife's current marriage. An apology letter from an ex could only do more harm than good. I'd just let it drop.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

More details to come later, but for now....

I am being demonized in her conversations w her circle of support. Everything I say, every rightful attitude I express is being turned around. I am now "unstable, bi polar, and have been emotionally abusive apparently our whole marriage"...all the while she continues to pine for our restoration in almost a suffocating manner. 

This $hit hurts.


----------



## farsidejunky

Rocket Skates76 said:


> More details to come later, but for now....
> 
> I am being demonized in her conversations w her circle of support. Everything I say, every rightful attitude I express is being turned around. I am now "unstable, bi polar, and have been emotionally abusive apparently our whole marriage"...all the while she continues to pine for our restoration in almost a suffocating manner.
> 
> This $hit hurts.


And now you know everything you need to know about any potential true remorse.

She is disordered. Stop engaging her in any form of conversation except for what has to do with co-parenting.

When it comes to her defamation of you, there is little you can do. If anybody asks you about it, just shrug your shoulders and tell them that you didn't sign up for an open marriage.


----------



## Graywolf2

Rocket Skates76 said:


> More details to come later, but for now....
> 
> I am being demonized in her conversations w her circle of support. Everything I say, every rightful attitude I express is being turned around. I am now "unstable, bi polar, and have been emotionally abusive apparently our whole marriage"...all the while she continues to pine for our restoration in almost a suffocating manner.
> 
> This $hit hurts.


Playing the victim, no matter the facts, is the best way she can redeem her reputation to some degree and not hate herself for being stupid. Plus it’s smart in today’s society to be the victim.

There is a reason why the saying “The best revenge is to live well” is correct. Most people have the ability to rewrite history to some degree but some people have the ability to sincerely believe their rewrite. 

You could show them a power point presentation of fact after fact and it wouldn’t matter. There is no “setting the record straight” with those kind of people. That’s why the best you can do is end debate about the past and live well. 

In some ways I envy those people. I’m too far the other way. I remember stupid things I did as a kid and have “cringe worthy moments.” I wish I had at least a bit of their ability.


----------



## honcho

Rocket Skates76 said:


> More details to come later, but for now....
> 
> I am being demonized in her conversations w her circle of support. Everything I say, every rightful attitude I express is being turned around. I am now "unstable, bi polar, and have been emotionally abusive apparently our whole marriage"...all the while she continues to pine for our restoration in almost a suffocating manner.
> 
> This $hit hurts.


You can't let this sort of stuff bother you. It's standard fare in divorce. She is doing this to deflect all the blame onto you and she also wants it to bother you. She wants you to defend yourself and engage he. They try nice, they try mean, they try silence etc etc. All with the sole purpose of keeping you attached and thinking about them.


----------



## TaDor

This is WHY we tell betrayed people to HAVE A VAR on their body (or an app on the phone at least) to record conversations. You would have more clear info about what was said in the past. And if the want to hear it, you can play back the recording of the wayward crying about how they cheated on you, blah blah...

Your "wife" is your enemy.

You did get that VAR, right? Even mine has come in handy recently. It showed I had someone else was an enemy to my relationship.

When you wife left the state with your kids... that was a clear sign that she was not to be trusted.
She is your enemy. File for D ASAP against her where you want to do the battle.
No warning.

DO it.


----------



## Chuck71

Rocket Skates76 said:


> More details to come later, but for now....
> 
> I am being demonized in her conversations w her circle of support. Everything I say, every rightful attitude I express is being turned around. I am now "unstable, bi polar, and have been emotionally abusive apparently our whole marriage"...all the while she continues to pine for our restoration in almost a suffocating manner.
> 
> This $hit hurts.


When the WS wants a R..... while they vilify you and on "their" terms.... time to

walk the F away. "Unstable, bi-polar, emotionally abusive" is in the cheater script cliff notes.

When in fact.... those are the things SHE is guilty of.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

But what through me for a loop is
One person she is smearing me to is a married man. The dude has only known me a year; he and his wife are both in her band he's basically the manager. 
She's good friends with them and I know his wife would not have a problem with them talking but the way she was talking about me to him and the way she allows these people to perceive me made me want to throw up and go beat his ass.

all he had to say basically was, "she wasn't responsible for my happiness and I was being an ahole. And that she should just move on" because apparently I've always been that. 

Wow.


----------



## dubsey

Just reply and ask why she would want to stay married to someone who.... and use an exact quote.

She'll of course, insist she never said that.

You'll just say "well, word gets around, ya know. You need to be more careful about who you trust."

You'll be the band's very own version of Yoko.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

It's your call, but I'd continue to stay silent and collect info. All of these two-faced things she does will help you see the real her and make detachment easier. No reason to beat the ass of some stranger who's been misled by her. He's just telling her what she wants to hear anyway. 

When you're finally detached, if you still care about justice, you can inform the band manager's wife of your wife's multiple infidelities, including names of all parties involved. Tell the woman to keep an eye on your wife since she has a thing for musicians. Then you can also ask your own wife why she ever wanted to reconcile with someone who she described as "unstable, bi-polar, and emotionally abusive". She doesn't need to know the source of your intelligence--let her stew on the suspicion that it came from her band mates confiding in you.


----------



## farsidejunky

He probably wants in her pants, too.

Either that or he is a KISA.

Either way, use this behavior to detach as @Tatsuhiko has said. 

She is disordered, brother. She will likely never change. Stop focusing on her.


----------



## Chuck71

She sits in her victim chair, pointing her finger at you, repeatedly lying to the point, 

she believes her own lies. Anyone who has known you for a number of years should know things 

are being twisted. When anyone finds out their spouse is the "county bean bag" of course

you are going to be -unstable, act bi-polarish, exhibit emotionally charged actions- wonder the hell why??

Now that you know who she is.... you should laugh at her BS attempts to paint you black.

Just like when my XW moved back into town last year and did her usual reaches..... 1% of me thought

how hilarious it would be to take her back and go by all of her gossip friends residence

and bring up -my you act stunned we're together, why is that?- But that's just me and my 

twisted sense of humor. The two most inflated, over-sized egos are people in music and food industry.

Would not shock me at all, she is banging her manager.....and maybe the wife too.

Again.... she just is NOT marriage material. She gave you a number of happy years, four kids....

you came out a winner dude. You can not control what others say about you.... true friends will see

right through it and they too.... will uncover her BSCness soon enough


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## Rocket Skates76

Far side, you have been a very consistent reliable input from the start, damn, well over a month ago!
I have done my best with the advice given. But to tell me not to concern myself w her only one month out is a tad hard. In fact, I go through times where I obsess over things still. 

Hell, I drove an hour the other day to the OMs house. He wasn't home. I hear he masterfully lied off the whole timeline to his wife I sent. Damn. 

This other guy may or may not be harmless. Whatever.


----------



## farsidejunky

I know it isn't easy. You are doing fine at this point. I am just trying to keep you on course.

Just mind the "pain shopping". It will lead you to things like checking out her social media accounts, etc. 

It is one thing if you are pursuing information for upcoming court action. It is yet another for you to "see what she is up to". The latter will bring nothing but pain, and only seek to prolong your healing.


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## Rocket Skates76

And it's the latter for whatever reason I obsess over. But I know that phase will pass.


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## Chuck71

'76.................. direct order. You will watch the 2017 Gold Cup final between US and Jamaica 

tomorrow evening. Coach Bruce A is baaaaaccccckkkkk. I will watch it after viewing the 

sunset with "that girl," and after opening my birthday presents 8>)

I shall toast a drink to other July 26ers......

Carl Jung
Gracie Allen
Aldous Huxley
GB Shaw
James Best
Estes Kefauver
Vivian Vance
Hoyt Wilhelm
Stanley Kubrick
Vitas Gerulaitis
....just to name a few...


----------



## Nucking Futs

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Far side, you have been a very consistent reliable input from the start, damn, well over a month ago!
> I have done my best with the advice given. *But to tell me not to concern myself w her only one month out is a tad hard.* In fact, I go through times where I obsess over things still. The VAR has confirmed within myself that she truly is unremorseful and I'm so glad for info like that.
> 
> Hell, I drove an hour the other day to the OMs house. He wasn't home. I hear he masterfully lied off the whole timeline to his wife I sent. Damn.
> 
> This other guy may or may not be harmless. Whatever.


If it wasn't hard he could tell you once at the appropriate time rather than having to tell you over and over again building you up to it. Yep, that's a hint, he's going to do it again. Don't be offended by the good advice you're not ready for, your time is coming and you need to be getting accustomed to the thoughts.


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## Rocket Skates76

NF, well said, good form. 

Jamaica=cake walk compared to Costa Rica. 

Jung ftw


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## Rocket Skates76

Any insights beyond what I have are appreciated.
IC this past week:

*What is my true responsibility Now?
Our (myself and counselor’s) Answer: Myself, rediscovering and healing. My children, their well-being.
Not her emotional well-being, that is a false responsibility. She weaves a manipulative web to draw you in.

*Will I acknowledge/accept who she truly is?
Our Answer: I cannot fix her many, deeper layers of sickness. Do not rationalize her behavior.
Confusion still seems to haunt me;

Even if we were to attempt to rebuild our marriage, I, for whatever reason, still intuitively feel she is hiding something.

No foundation of trust…but possibly due to my hurt.

*What does safe, minimal conversation consist of?
Our Answer: The children. Period. 
And keep it mostly via text.


*Why do I give in to her form of manipulation?
Our answer:...


----------



## farsidejunky

Because you want to believe.

You are an idealist, and she is your ideal.

You give in to her manipulation because you want it to be true.


----------



## scaredlion

It is apparent that you still love your wife and she loves you. You may have trouble with trust in the future but if you are observant you could work through that. Every man who's wife cheated on him always believes that there's more than they are being told. Even if there is, you already know enough to make any decision you want to make. I'm one of those people who really only has to know it happened. If I knew it was a sexual act that's all I need to know to make a decision. Where it happened, when it happened, how long it lasted, who was on top, etc.. just adds fuel to the fire. If I was in your shoes I would give her another chance but I would make her understand that anything she does in the future you will do and do it longer, more times , and be better at it than she was. And this would happen as the divorce is taking place. You want to take her back or you wouldn't have 21 pages here and still undecided. I do wish you well.


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## Chuck71

RS '76..... the vision you see of your W is from 2007, NOT 2017. Every thing changes... but our visions.

I can still see my XW when we met back in '97.... and always will. Now....? She set up a GoFundMe

page to move back home, to get furniture, poor mouthed her friends if "Santa is bringing you

a new stove / washer / dryer and you want to get rid of an old one on the cheap," and suddenly

gets religious when she needs something. NOTHING like the '97 version. She was proud, independent,

and would have to be homeless and eating gravels and maggot soup before she would ask

anyone for anything. Quite the compare / contrast huh? Her POS tendencies are hers and hers alone

to fix. Many don't... a select few do. At the moment... nothing left but paperwork and lawyer's billable

hours. As Bob Segar sang..... Turn the Page.


----------



## alte Dame

You remind us that it's only been a short time since you signed on here for input, and that is true. So much has happened in these past weeks.

And so much can happen in the next year as well. Your WW is a typical master at hoovering you and at getting men to do what she wants them to do. You thought you were the special one as far as she was concerned. It turns out you were only the special one until she stops feeling the buzz that she gets from having men desire her. You're the old shoe and the buzz with you died long ago.

Sure, she needs IC and you need answers. In the end, though, there is only one answer that counts, and that is that she is a serial cheater.

She can suck you back in, lie to her heart's content, act like the good wife again, but at the end of the day, she is a serial cheater and you will never be able to trust her.

So, as you navigate your life this year and start to wobble, just remember that simple, sad truth - she is a serial cheater and you will never trust her again.


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## Marc878

Not to mention she'll cheat again and again and again. That is the reality of your future life if you choose to stay in this.

The biggest problem you face now is you.

Better fix yourself if you want a decent life going forward.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

My IC is slanted heavily D. R has not been brought up in a couple sessions. 
The focus has lately been on taking back power, seeing manipulation for what it is, sticking to my boundaries, etc. 

I have been a couple 'hiccups' along the way but nothing earth shattering. 
The hurt, analytical side still rears its head wanting to dig deeper, e.g., I drove to the OMs little home town looking all over for him, seriously, just wanted to discuss his role...but alas he hides well.


----------



## Marc878

OM was only taking what your wife was giving him. Like most betrayed you focus on the OM of the affair.

While he played a part he would not have been a problem to you had your wife not made the decision to let him in.

You should take her off the pedestal now.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

I know. 

I was simply seeking to cross-reference, fact check her anemic accounts to satiate my vengeful need for blood.


----------



## Marc878

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I know.
> 
> I was simply seeking to cross-reference, fact check her anemic accounts to satiate my vengeful need for blood.


Ha! Nothing wrong with that >

You sound like me.


----------



## *Deidre*

She sounds like a textbook narcissist.

18 Ways To Spot A Narcissist | HuffPost


----------



## Chuck71

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I know.
> 
> I was simply seeking to cross-reference, fact check her anemic accounts to satiate my vengeful need for blood.


Always remember......the guy only took what she was offering. If it wasn't him, it would have been

the Al Bundy look-alike down the street. She had a role that needed to be filled, this guy

was the first to fit the part. In your STBXWs mind.... the play remains the same, just the actors change.

The past is called the past because it has passed. Focus on your future.... it CAN be your oyster.


----------



## Satya

Your counselor is probably leaning towards D because he/she recognizes there's no chance to save the marriage since your W behaves as she has. 

It's not rocket science. 

You need to learn to stop giving a flip about her, because she obviously doesn't give 2 about you. 

As for her character assassinating you, you're powerless to stop her. What you can do is dump every person who automatically sides with her and get yourself some new friends she doesn't know and will never know. For those people who stay neutral and don't eat her lies without knowing your side, there is potential support there in the future for you, so don't dump that as readily.


----------



## eric1

The loser OM will just lie anyways. Unless he is married there will be no way to use him as a cross reference.

It's not worth it either way.


----------



## TDSC60

Leave OM alone. He never was your problem. Nothing good can come of chasing him down. Why would you think he will tell you the truth if he is protecting his marriage?


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Weird request.

My IC wants to look at my wifes timeline she provided a while back (and has not budged from since). She knows my wife is saying all the right things, doing them as well, etc. 
IC also feels my wife is full of deep issues, the whole nine yards, possible borderline personality disorder.

Our focus has been moving forward w taking back my life, but our discussion today took a turn of "What is the name of the IC she is going to?" and "Even If she is being legit, nothing will hold up if it is built upon deception."
IC is leery to say the least, and I dont blame her but my mind still functions in a very subjective manner.

Someone experienced and discerning, message me so I can have you take a fresh look at the timeline, and give me honest feedback.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Actually, hell, ive got nothing to really hide...copy/paste...its longish.
This was her confirmed PA, the last one she's had.


"Ok I'm giving you everything here, but please don't share this with anyone. I'm gravely ashamed of it all and terribly embarrassed.

David and I started just talking about our lives, marriages and music in July just a bit before our first show via regular texts...the ones I deleted. I expressed to him how I felt you hated me and how sad it made me feel. How I felt like I wasn't special to you. He responded with typical things....you are so talented, sexy as hell, and a beautiful girl inside and out. He would tell me things about him and His wife too...how she's the sweetest girl he's ever known, but she's a cold fish romantically and in the bedroom. He said they hadn't had sex in weeks. I told him we were lucky if we did once a week. He said she wouldn't go down on him ever because it grossed her out and if he ever were to go in her mouth, she would die. There was little flirting in person around this time...such as he would smack me on the butt when I walked in front of him at practice. I would hug him a little longer than I did everyone else. Nothing severe at this point.
Then you found deleted texts. It scared us both back to reality. We talked on the phone and both agreed not to let this continue. In fact, at practices we would barely acknowledge each other's presence. I felt sad because I also viewed him as my friend and I felt I had lost a friend.*
A few weeks past and I really want to say we were probably into August by then...possibly September. I really want to be as accurate as I can be, but it's hard to remember the months, so I really hope you can understand that. Anyway, one night after practice Our manager called a core band meeting at Buff WWngs. It was an uncomfortable meeting because david and I still were almost afraid to even be friendly towards each other fearing everyone would think we were up to something. Well I can't speak for him and he never said that, but that's exactly how I was feeling and how it appeared based upon his body language while he was around me. The meeting ended and we all were parked around each other so we all hugged goodbye. As I was walking to my car david asked if he could talk to me. I said yes. We stood outside of my car in the parking lot across from each other and talked. He said he wanted me to know he understood why I told you about the deleted texts, what they entailed and why I did what I did and that he wanted me to know he had no hard feelings against me for that and hoped we could still be friends. I said of course. We hugged goodbye...nothing extravagant and really not even a lengthy hug. I got back in my car and started it. When I was about to leave the parking lot, he pulled his truck up beside mine and rolled down his window and motioned for me to do the same. Then he said as he looked down while talking, "look I am very much attracted to you, I'm not gonna lie, and I get the feeling you feel the same about me. " At this point I did not agree. I was still all about not screwing up again. I told him he was very sweet and I appreciated his honesty and then I drove home.
It wasn't long after that....maybe a couple days, that he sent me a message on instagram asking what I was up to. I told him laundry and kids as usual. He then asked me if he would've tried to kiss me that night would I have let him. I said probably so. (Please remember though that not one single time did we ever kiss at all...not even a peck). From there, we began messaging each on Instagram often. Not every day, but many times a week. Conversations returned to what they were in the very beginning. Then one day he asked me if I would do him a favor. He wanted to jack off in the bathroom at his work and asked me if I'd help him get there by sending him some sexy pics. I said yes. So I sent him topless pics. He returned by sending me a **** pick and telling me how hot I was and that I was the best. These conversations and scandalous interactions stopped after that. He wouldn't even look at me at practice. I can remember feeling mad...like you got me to do that, got what you wanted from me and now you treat me like **** in person. Time would pass, then out of nowhere I'd get another request from him...same thing. Stupid me would comply. Eventually our messages turned more dirty. Talking about sex, what we liked and didn't like, what got us going. He asked me if I would ever go down on him because he never gets that ever. At first I told him no. And I told him no because I know myself. I told him that was one of my favorite things to do and it turns ME on and I was afraid it would lead to more. He then promised me that under no circumstances would we ever have sex. He told me how he loved his wife and family and would never allow things to go that far or get emotionally involved. This was strictly to "have fun".

One time he knew I was at sears before practice (I told him I was), so he came in and hugged me and we walked around there a bit together as I shopped. When we went to our cars, he hugged me long and said I was so sexy. Then we went to practice. Nothing more happened there. Another time a couple weeks later, he messaged me that he was already in town early for practice running some errands for his job. He was at Home Depot on Airline. So I left for practice early and showed up to Home Depot (or is it a Lowes? I cannot remember) and it was so stupid. I just walked around behind him as he grabbed things he needed. We went to the checkout and then he said he needed to run into Best Buy to look for a piano light and asked if I wanted to tag along. I said sure. So I followed him in my car. We never even held hands any of these times either. We ran into that store, they didn't have what he needed so we went to the Office Depot right there by it. They did have the light he needed. While there in an aisle , he grabbed my hand and put in on his crotch...as for me to see he had a hard on. When we got back to our cars, he jumped in his truck and motioned for me to get in. In his truck he asked me to touch it and I did. Not long at all though...not like until he did something. To be honest it was awkward and brief. Then I got back in my car and we headed to practice. At practice, he messaged me that he was so horny and asked if I was too. I HONESTLY AND YOU HAVE TO KNOW THIS IS TRUE was not, but said I was. In fact every time after that if he ever asked me if I was horny, I would reply "always". I enjoyed the game and the thrill of it all. But never ever felt in love with him or that I wanted a relationship with him. He never expressed he was looking for those things either. This was just an escape from our realities. Nothing more. I was always PARANOID of getting caught and he would assure me it would never happen unless I told because he sure as hell never would. Still I was scared always. Ok so anyway, during one of our breaks that night at practice, he whispered to me that he was going to go into the bathroom and leave his phone in there and asked if I'd take a tit pic for him. As I rehash all of this I just get so mad at myself at how I just did whatever he asked. What an IDIOT!!

So one day he messaged me (we were having practice that night and a meeting) and asked if after we could "hook up". I said something stupid like "chances are high". So we had our practice and meeting at Buff W Wngs. He sat right next to me that night in the booth. John was still our bass player and sat on the other side of David. Brandon and Becca in the booth seats across from us. The entire time we were there he was rubbing my leg/knee under the table meanwhile carrying on business band chat with everyone there. No one saw. When we were leaving, I got into my own car and he pulled up beside me and told me to follow him. I did. He went over behind the Whataburger but (I didn't know this right then) but Chris was in the drive through at Whataburger so david drove off and I still followed. He pulled into the parking lot of Home Depot or lowes (whichever it is there on Russel St) and stopped his truck and motioned with his head for me to come to his truck. I did. Literally as soon as I got inside he undid his pants and asked me to go down on him. And I did. When it was over, I got back in my car and drove home feeling like a nervous wreck and not believing myself that I had actually just done that because I swear to you, that nothing like this had EVER happened before with anyone else during our marriage. Anyway, while I was driving home, he messaged me that that was the best BJ he had ever had and thanked me. I didn't talk to him again for about a week...maybe even two, but I did see him at practice and he acted like he didn't even know who I was. Wouldn't look at me, speak to me and was in a huge rush to leave right after practice...when normally he would stick around and hang out outside while the rest of us smoked. Once again I was mad at him and felt so used...he had gotten what he wanted and now was treating me like ****. This made me so angry so I messaged him asking him why he treated me like **** now and was ignoring me. So he called me. He told me on the phone that he felt wrong about what had happened and he needed to remove himself from me as much as possible because I was a temptation for him and he was trying to be a "better man". I told him I understood. So we wouldn't talk for many days (messaging or phone) then out of nowhere he would message me and ask if I'd help him get off while he was in the bathroom at work by sending him a pic of my boobs. Stupid me would do it. Every time he asked I'd do it. Now this is the part even yesterday I didn't say....I didn't think it was necessary because I'd already confessed how far it had gone....but one night after a band meeting at the Beard's house we were getting in our cars and he asked me to follow him. Deep down I knew what he was after and I should've just driven home, but I followed him to a gas station...the one that was right there by the little league ball field. When we got there he asked me to get in his truck (why did I just comply all the time?????? Ugh!!) and I did. My car stayed parked at the gas station. He drove around the block and pulled my hand on to his crotch (pants on). Then he pulled into a Mexican restaurant parking lot and I truly cannot remember the name of it...maybe it was a Totino's? Once he stopped he pulled his pants down again and pulled my head down there. This time it was VERY brief and I'm not downplaying it but next to nothing. I was paranoid and kept saying people could see in the windows. So he said he didn't want me to feel uncomfortable and we stopped. He drove me back to my car at the gas station. I can remember feeling really used. I wanted to feel special and all I felt was used. Before I got out of his truck, I asked him if he would kiss me goodbye (remember we had never kissed). He told me no. I felt shocked that he said no but was like whatever. So there was never a kiss. After that incident (which was in October) he went back to acting like I didn't exist again. In fact, it was during this time, he called me and told me he was leaving the band and wanted me to know first before he told the beards. He said his last show would be the state fair one. I felt RELIEVED. You have no idea how relieved I felt. So we had the Halloween show at a club and he was a ****ing jerk to me during sound check and the whole night. Acted like I was a stranger which once again pissed me off and made me feel nothing but played and used. After the show, I'd had one too many drinks and was feeling bold. So right at the entrance of the bar there, I called him out while he walked by me to leave. I said in a very angry tone. I hate you so bad. I ****ing hate you...you used me. You got me to do things I would have NEVER done, got what you wanted from me and then treat me like ****. He told me in a mad tone to settle down and to be quiet. He said people (the band) could see us talking. That made me even more mad and I said, "what I can't talk to you publicly now?? I can talk to any of the other band members publicly but NOT YOU??" So I was really really mad. He was acting like an ass to me. So I grabbed my gig bag and started walking to the parking garage to my car. He hollered for me to wait up and I said WHY?? He said "I need help carrying my gear and you shouldn't be walking to your car in a parking garage alone this late at night." So he walked me to my car. We didn't even say two words to each other. When we got to my car, he said he was sorry for being a jerk (we were like 15 feet away from each other) and asked if we could still be friends but not talk anymore like before. I said yes. He hugged me in a "side church hug way" and said to drive safely. I was still mad. I did not speak to him again until the day of our state fair show when I needed a ride to sound check and nobody was able to pick me up. I reluctantly asked him if he could pick me up. He did. It was the most awkward ride ever. I stared out the window and didn't speak to him until we got near the fair grounds and couldn't figure out where we were supposed to pull in for load in. He had me call Brandon. Nothing at all happened that night in that truck. That was our last show. The pic you sent me if he and I together was actually taken just before we (you and our family) left the show. You'd sent the boys back to get me. Becca had just taken a pic with him and I said hey I want one too. So we took a selfie together.

We did not talk FOR MONTHS after that. Once in a blue moon I'd get a message from him of him just saying hi how are ya, etc. We would just chat briefly about music and life, how things were going with the band and he would tell me he was going to start college, etc...small talk really. Many times these were just regular text messages too and nothing needing deletion. Then when Wilson asked me to be his worship leader I knew from previously talking to David that he was available. So I called David and asked him if he'd be interested. Nothing is fishy or anything with any of how that went down or even with when he gave the job back to me. BUT it had put us back in communication with each other. I had messaged him asking if he was going to be in the Showdown and if he knew how many people were going to be in it. He said he would probably be in it but didn't know any info on it. Then he asked "what are you up to" (which was ALWAYS what he said when he wanted something from me). I said laundry and kids as usual. Then this time he said "will you do me a favor?" And I answered back no. He did a frowny face and said ok. I knew what he wanted...boob pics. So I said no. Then a day or so before the Showdown he hit me up on instagram again and asked again and I cannot even tell you WHY I said yes, but I did. He sent me **** picks of him jacking off and said "keep sending pics hurry". So I did. Ugh!!! I knew from a text I'd received from him that he wasn't even going to be at the Showdown because he had agreed to run sound for another event in town. I asked him if he would swing by and just say hello since I hadn't seen him*in 7 months*since November..:.At this point I thought some of my other singer friends would be there too. He said yeah. I said I hoped the competition wasn't steep so I could win. He said, why to celebrate?? I said yeah and because I want to win. He then asked if he came by there if I'd be willing one last time to go down on him. Stupid me said, "high chance"...even though I KNEW he was a player and a user. But in my heart I knew I wouldn't let it happen this time...I just wouldn't. I begged you to go with me, I begged nicole to go with me even. When I got to minden I was walking into the high school with the other contestants when I saw the creepy house across the street. I sent david a regular text saying y'all have a CREEPY house across from yalls high school. He didn't reply. Then during sound check he messaged me on instagram saying his phone was dying and not to message him back and that he would text me when he got to his truck. I said ok. I told him there was only 5 contestants and I thought I had a fair shot. This also meant the show would end much sooner and so he wouldn't make it there before it was over. Again I was relieved and told myself that as soon as it was over to not wait around to see if he shows and just to go home. And the very last text I sent him was "I WON". He said awesome and congrats. That was it. I chatted with the radio station people, did an interview and took pics and then jumped in my car and drove straight home feeling relieved that I'd not fallen for that again. I have not talked to him one single time since. However his wife did message me on FB today and I denied we ever had intercourse and kinda shut her down. 

We used Instagram to communicate but would occasionally talk via regular text. I never deleted those texts because they were always normal texts about music or band stuff or whatever. No other site or messaging app was used. He tried to send me a pic of him sitting in his office at work once via Snapchat but I had just gotten the app and had no idea how to use it so I didn't even respond. In fact I deleted him as a follower on it even right after that because I didn't want anymore funny business on any other sites.



That's it. That's all of it. I've tried my very very best to remember the timeline of events as accurately as possible. I know this info hurts you, baby. I'm so sorry. �� I am so glad you are willing to give us a chance though. I have been truthful about it all. And it IS true that David and I never ever did have sex. I will never say we did because we didn't.

Baby I am being real here....I don't know exact dates. It's not like I kept a record of it all or wrote down dates. I truly do NOT know dates. I wish I did simply because I know you want them, but I just do not know them. I know a timeline of events, not exact. Please don't hold that against me in this when I'm desperately trying to give you everything.
The deleted texts between us were him telling me how hot I was. That I'm hotter than 80% of woman half my age. Others were us talking about Becca and how she called him scrawny and I told him I thought he looked hot and not to worry about her. I remember telling him I liked arms and he had nice arms. Others were him asking me to wear certain things to practice...he asked me to wear the Mama bear tshirt because he thought it was hot. Others were me complaining to him about how you treated me and how I felt ignored and he would reply by telling me you were crazy not to see what you had. I told him I didn't feel like I was a hard woman to love but that for some reason I don't feel like you love me and that I don't ever ask for extravagant things and that I'd be happy to have fresh sunflowers brought home to me. He replied that he could do that. He said I deserved that and so much more (all of which I was wanting to hear) Others were me asking him why he was with someone like Brittney because she seemed so plain and him telling me that he had dated a lot of hot girls that knew they were hot and had bad attitudes but Brittney was different and was genuinely sweet and he decided that marrying someone for their insides mattered more in the long run. One time he told me that a dress I'd worn to practice which was a black and white striped one was so sexy on me the way it fell on my body that he had a boner the whole night at practice and had to constantly be shifting his pants to try to cover it. He asked me in person one night at practice during this time if I specifically dressed the way I did for him. I still remember saying, not in particularly but hey I'm glad you like what you see. He would joke about wanting to pull me into the bathroom at practice and devour me (although that never happened). It wasn't until the texts switched to Instagram messages that things got worse. Thats when we could send disappearing pics and videos to each other that disappeared 5 seconds after they were viewed. I told him it was a turn on for me to watch him orgasm so he sent me 5 sec videos of him doing that. He sent me those videos three times. He would ask me to send a video or pic of me with my mouth open and I would. When I say it was sexting, it was. One time we talked about meeting at the Horseshoe casino because he gets free rooms there, but I SWEAR TO YOU WE NEVER EVER FOLLOWED THROUGH WITH THAT. Never.

I'm being blatantly honest here. You have to know this!!! I still feel like you are hung up on the belief that we had sex and I will never say we did because we DID NOT. That is the 100% truth. I have nothing to lose so why wouldn't I just tell you if it was true?? Even my counselor said that same thing today when I was distraught over the fact that you refused to believe me when I was telling the truth. If I had slept with David, you would've already known by now because baby I would've told you in all of this. I have no problem confessing to what I DID DO, but I will not confess to something I simply did not do and that's why I keep saying to polygraph me. Have 10 of them done by different people if you want. They'll all prove I'm not lying.


----------



## GusPolinski

Jeezy Chreezy.

Maybe summarize...

How many affairs/inappropriate relationships has she admitted to?

What -- per her -- was the extent of each?

And is oral sex suddenly not "sex"?

She's admitted to banging at least one dude and blowing another, right?

Does it really matter if she didn't have PIV with one of them?


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## farsidejunky

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Weird request.
> 
> My IC wants to look at my wifes timeline she provided a while back (and has not budged from since). *She knows my wife is saying all the right things, doing them as well, etc.*
> IC also feels my wife is full of deep issues, the whole nine yards, possible borderline personality disorder.
> 
> Our focus has been moving forward w taking back my life, but our discussion today took a turn of "What is the name of the IC she is going to?" and "Even If she is being legit, nothing will hold up if it is built upon deception."
> IC is leery to say the least, and I dont blame her but my mind still functions in a very subjective manner.
> 
> Someone experienced and discerning, message me so I can have you take a fresh look at the timeline, and give me honest feedback.


So minimizing and blameshifting to friends is saying/doing the right things? Tell her to go back to each person she has lied to and correct the story with the truth...the full truth, to include her sexting and fellatio. Her reaction to that request will be telling.

Stop hitting the hopium.

As for the timeline, I would take that down if I were you. 

You know, as someone who has led worship and currently sings on rotation on Sundays, her behavior from a worship leader is abhorrent. This is what happens when someone is selected for talent first and character/values second. The church leadership needs to know.


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## TaDor

Naaa. Church folks are no different. They lie,steal, cheat, rape, murder like everyone else.

A good letter. .. Up you if ya want to poly her.

She said YES because it was fun. So how much is too much to attempt an R? At least they didn't do it in the butt, right?
,


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## Chuck71

She is looking for something..... what that something is, she does not even know.

If she spent 1/2 the time talking to you as she did "everyone else," you may not have ever had to

post here. Every one has issues.... some can deal with them, others can not. She has to first...

admit hers, work on those, confess to ALL activities, and retract every twisted word

she has spilled to others concerning you, her cheating, and rationale why. Then..... THEN...

she might have a slim chance at working through things and one day.... winning you back.

But it won't be next week, next month, not even next year. Even if she admits 110%... is she ready for

that battle? Would you want her in your foxhole right NOW, if you were in a war?

Separate the woman you fell in love with.... with the person she is now. Yes it is hard.

Humans are held to standards...... some more than others. When I was a public school teacher, 

I was held to a higher standard, as I should have. Your W was held to a higher standard.... and failed

miserably. Complete minimizing, still blame shifting, still re-writing history. She has a LONG way to go to

even reach the "remote possibility" of a R. That road, she must travel alone. You should not

aid or assist her in any way. You must move on with your life and family. The only outcome you can control,

is yours B'76.


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## TaDor

A few things. I re-read a few earlier posts. You're in a pickle... Has she crossed the line of no return? You have more info to cross reference if her story matches your evidence.

What can she do to prove herself? Out herself to the OM's wife? If what she says is true, he's a player. "boo hoo - my wife never gives me BJs", who ASKS that of co-workers? I work with many guys - we talk a bit about our women, but I don't recall any of us getting into details of how much and BJs. I know I know - it can vary. But to do that with an opposite sex co-workers (or bandmate) - that is fishing, and she took the bait.

At this point, work on yourself and she should work on hers. In consideration that you still cheated, do you give your marriage to her the chance that NEITHER of you gave to your previous spouses? You both have issues, do you brave it? You’ve done a worse thing to your ex-wife – you didn’t give her a chance. The simple ultimatum is to put her money where her mouth is.

1 – If there is anything else, now is the time – the only time to confess to you.
2 – If it turns out that there is more guys or sex that you find out later, you will divorce her.
3 – If she does it again with someone else, you’ll divorce her.
4 – You will require her to sign a postnup – that she loses her home / alimony if you divorce her.

The conditions for R on my drama, my WW (technically no longer married) didn’t fight me in court – signed over the rights to our son, to me. I could literally throw her out tomorrow and she loses everything. It’s a year of R – and it still hurts.

So Continue IC, consider her offer of doing POLY (er – lie detector), you find the guy and she PAYS for it out of her pocket. Whatever you think works for the both of you.


I also think that your post of her timeline is helpful, but also – you should EDIT names, etc. What you have pasted could be enough for people locate you. A warning for anyone here, IMHO and to you for future posts on any forum - change names & details. I’m from the South myself.


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## MrsAldi

She said that she felt like you "hated her and you didn't make her feel special" 

Has she ever elaborated on what exactly you did for her to feel hated? 

She's saying that you made her feel so terrible that she had to get assurance from another man. Of course the guy saw an opportunity to get his leg over and that's exactly why she felt used. 

Marriage is hard, we forget to verbally state our desire sometimes, other things get in the way. It's much easier to find someone, a stranger to tell you exactly what you want to hear, it's much harder to ask a long-term partner to express their desire. Why? I suppose that rejection hurts a lot more from someone who you know 10 years rather than from someone you know for 5 mins. 

Your wife has chronic low self-esteem, she has a history of running away when she feels undesirable, she's done this numerous times and will do it again until she gets help. 

Had she not been used by the guys, she would probably have left you by now, maybe she has learned a lesson? 

1. Never show vulnerabilities to straight males again. 

or 

2. Make sure that she gets the next guy to fall in love fully with her so she's not used again. 

My money is on no 2, until she meets a therapist who can set her up with self esteem and confidence. 

Taking her back would be risking yourself to be hurt again. 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


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## Rocket Skates76

I have no intent to take her back. 

I feel if I internally even set a "one year or whatever timeframe to watch her actions" she would miserably fail and get involved w someone else because she hates to be alone. 

I have proof there was more discussion w OM since last November than she leads on with, in fact before she was busted in June, she was trying to get him to rejoin the band.


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## farsidejunky

Which means the rabbit hole goes deeper yet.

Stop focusing on her. Tell your therapist that despite her words, your STBXWW actions are not consistent with remorse. Tell your therapist that any focus on her is not what you want nor need.


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## TaDor

Rocket Skates76 said:


> _I'm being blatantly honest here. You have to know this!!! I still feel like you are hung up on the belief that we had sex and I will never say we did because we DID NOT. That is the 100% truth. I have nothing to lose so why wouldn't I just tell you if it was true?? Even my counselor said that same thing today when I was distraught over the fact that you refused to believe me when I was telling the truth. If I had slept with David, you would've already known by now because baby I would've told you in all of this. I have no problem confessing to what I DID DO, but I will not confess to something I simply did not do and that's why I keep saying to polygraph me. Have 10 of them done by different people if you want. They'll all prove I'm not lying.
> _
> 
> I have no intent to take her back.
> I feel if I internally even set a "one year or whatever timeframe to watch her actions" she would miserably fail and get involved w someone else because she hates to be alone.
> 
> I have proof there was more discussion w OM since last November than she leads on with, in fact before she was busted in June, she was trying to get him to rejoin the band.


Intent and action are two different things. I didn't intend to attempt R after my WW broke contact the 2nd time. I was already dating/having sex with others by then.

You know you can trust her because she says "trust me" (sounds like a politician - never trust them when they say "TRUST ME") - They had many months to fool around after practice, send each other sex videos and pics and who knows what. Maybe David quit the band to get away from your wife?

The added info from you about her wanting David to rejoin the band proves she had no problems with everything she did with him - UNTIL you busted her. She got off on him commanding her to suck him off. There is nothing she could not do. Kind of amusing in a twisted way, her singing about Jesus and values, but thinking about David's penis... and knowing she'll likely play with it later. 

Does she know that YOU know about her wanting him to return? If not, let her know when you drop the hammer on her. That she lied thru omission (Went through that as well) - so continue your IC, and start getting your ducks in order. 

Something you should keep in mind. Remember back 10+ years ago – when she told you about her marriage. Anything she said about her husband, her actions she did to him and against him. Be prepared for her to do to you. She’ll likely follow typical script for her personality. 

If all this time, you never ever thought about another woman – points. When you are single again – be HONEST with the new women of your past. That you were not faithful the first time, learned your lesson. It may cost you the relationship – but you can’t escape your past relationships because of the kids. So you best be honest. Omission is lying. 


Good luck.


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## Rocket Skates76

I have actually wondered that. And all things are possible unfortunately. What if she was The pursuer and not the so-called used up victim. What if he was trying to escape her. I guess doubtful but wouldn't that at least for me shed new light on Her corruption.
The text I recovered were all deleted and for the most part it was her initiating Conversation with him asking him to listen to songs she had recorded or wishing him happy Thanksgiving and we're talking about general stuff. It doesn't recover all the deleted text because I'm sure things were over written so I have a very incomplete pictures.


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## farsidejunky

Rocket:

The longer you keep considering the "what ifs", the longer you delay your healing.


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## Rocket Skates76

You are 100% correct and have been spot on from the beginning along with a number of other posters. The desire I had to be sneaky and gather Intel has faded and I consider that a small victory.

However the larger analytical side of me occasionally still likes to indulge in trying to properly frame everything that has transpired that is just how my mind has always worked. Call it a need for control in a very uncontrolled environment 

Other than that all systems are a go.


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## farsidejunky

In order for that methodology to work, her frame would need to match yours.

Epic fail...pissing in the wind.

You need to read up on outcome independence. When you focus on living a principled life, the outcome will take care of itself.

Has anyone suggested the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s by Wayne Levine? I would highly suggest it.


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## TaDor

MrsAldi said:


> Your wife has chronic low self-esteem, she has a history of running away when she feels undesirable, she's done this numerous times and will do it again until she gets help.
> 
> Had she not been used by the guys, she would probably have left you by now, maybe she has learned a lesson?
> 
> 1. *Never show vulnerabilities to straight males again.*


HUH? What does straight males have to do with anything? Here is something you may not know about gay men. They are still men.
The "girlie" ones you are imagining are very much in the minority. Think about it... gay men prefer manly men.


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## TaDor

When my wife cheated or NO contact was broken - she did most of the pursuing. But he also played her.


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## MrsAldi

TaDor said:


> HUH? What does straight males have to do with anything? Here is something you may not know about gay men. They are still men.
> The "girlie" ones you are imagining are very much in the minority. Think about it... gay men prefer manly men.


Umm, I was referring to heterosexual friendship. How difficult it is. Nearly every one of my former straight male friends have asked for sex or a relationship. My therapist basically told me to just avoid anything other than small talk. 

Maybe a gay friend might be more interested in my husband than me. 



Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


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## TaDor

Sorry, I had read your post wrong. I was thinking that you were referring that the OP to not-show vulnerability to straight men.

The rules should simply apply to everyone, no? Men, who go into to much details with women? Or two men, or two women? Also, you may not know someone's orientation. Someone who may appear to be gay, could be straight after all. When I first met my wife, I didn't know she was actually out to meet chicks.


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## scaredlion

I am not a naïve person by any means and if you knew the life I have lived you would probably adamantly agree. Therefore, contrary to many here, sometimes people actually do tell the whole truth in their confessions. Especially if they have reached the point where they fear losing everything dear to them if they lie anymore. I think by her timeline she may have reached that point. Yes cheaters lie and deceive and TT, but there are some that can change and be truthful, especially when their back is against the wall. I think she loves her husband and wants a chance to prove she does. I also think he needed to show her more emotional affection. Husbands tend to forget or overlook the fact that women are more emotional than men. A wife thrives on being told she is pretty; she is appreciated; she is desired; she is loved. EVERYDAY, I tell my wife this. I make sure I kiss and hug her several times a day. I saw my son neglecting this with his wife. Knowing what I learned the hard way, I set him down and told him what he was doing had the potential of putting his marriage in jeopardy. I told him that if he didn't love his wife enough to show her that love, everyday, then there was someone out there in the world that was willing to do it for him. And that 99% of the time that person is a predator and only looking for one thing, sex. There are many husbands that only show affection when they want sex. They get involved with everything else in life except their wife. In cases like this, it is still absolutely wrong and deceitful for her to cheat. The infidelity is all on her. But in may occasions the stage was set by a lack of intimacy and could have been avoided by a little demonstrated love and affection. I learned these things the hard way. She deserves another chance and so does he. I do wish you well.


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## Rocket Skates76

Earlier in the thread you stated every husband wants to believe there is more to the story. Absolutely. For me, I wanted constant fuel for my anger and resolve. 

I have admitted to all I helped to create the "environment" to a degree, I was tired from 65 hr work weeks, she's smothering, etc. but deep down I know I'm not the man she claimed I was, that was justification on her part. 
So I hear you. The things I'm beginning to not be able to shake are the tears of my little ones when daddy has to drop them off, but not her tears.


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## Chuck71

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I have actually wondered that. And all things are possible unfortunately. What if she was The pursuer and not the so-called used up victim. What if he was trying to escape her. I guess doubtful but wouldn't that at least for me shed new light on Her corruption.
> The text I recovered were all deleted and for the most part it was her initiating Conversation with him asking him to listen to songs she had recorded or wishing him happy Thanksgiving and we're talking about general stuff. It doesn't recover all the deleted text because I'm sure things were over written so I have a very incomplete pictures.


Initiating.... for the most part is two different things when it applies to most men / women.

It is much easier for a female to initiate, if that is what she wants. Chances are.... the guy took

her up on it. But maybe that is all he was interested in. Could it be he realized he did not sign up

for everything she had in mind? On-going fling, strong possibility of being exposed, drama, 

maybe she wanted him to run off with her and give him a ready made family.

I spent time in the music biz, small scale... nothing big. Three things any band encounter is

crappy food, egos, and drama. Could it be she thought more of herself as a singer than a mom / wife?

RS '76..... what was her childhood like? Relations with parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts / uncles?


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## Rocket Skates76

Her older sister and only sibling was 13 or 14 years older than her so she basically was an only child.

When Her family not involved in large scale ministry they were small business owners so she has always been pretty well taken care of.

Because of the large scale ministry family dynamic, she dealt with a lot of parental shame for her personal actions as a child and teenager. E.G., as a 13-year-old she was secretly dating a 19-year-old who was in the music business and worked at the local skating rink as well. He came over one evening while she was babysitting at someone else's house and she was raped. 

Her parents kept it a secret for the most part (besides reporting it) and instead of getting her help, they scolded her, saying basically that's what can happen type thing.

Her mom was overbearing and impossible to please but she had a very close relationship with her father who tragically passed away several years ago. She worked as his worship leader/ children's pastor for many years. 

At 18 she signed a record deal, that same year she got pregnant and was dropped by the label.


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## turnera

That's why I hate organized religion.


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## Rubix Cubed

turnera said:


> That's why I hate organized religion.


That's kind of broad, like saying " That's why I hate people." Even if it may be true.


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## Thor

Rocket Skates76 said:


> she dealt with a lot of parental shame for her personal actions as a child and teenager. E.G., as a 13-year-old she was secretly dating a 19-year-old who was in the music business and worked at the local skating rink as well. He came over one evening while she was babysitting at someone else's house and she was raped.
> 
> Her parents kept it a secret for the most part (besides reporting it) and instead of getting her help, they scolded her, saying basically that's what can happen type thing.


There's a good chance she was sexually abused as a younger child, too. At 13 to be dating a 19 yr old suggests it, though of course is not at all definitive. Regardless, the rape and especially the way her parents reacted to it certainly did a lot of damage to her. That's the kid of stuff which needs serious long term trauma therapy to get over. It surely messed her up about sexuality and men. CSA victims are at a much higher risk of cheating. Anyhow the takeaway is that she likely has some very deep issues which she has not dealt with, and they have contributed to things she has done which don't make sense to you.

Though we all do it, you should not take her betrayals personally. She is the one with the weaknesses and flaws. She is the one who made the decisions to do what she did. Whatever the underlying reasons are don't really matter, though it may be of intellectual interest to try to figure her out. She did what she did for whatever reasons. This is on her, not you. With time you'll start to see it more clearly.


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## Rocket Skates76

Thank you, good point.

The CSA aspect was brought up by my therapist as well early on in this, but my STBXW seemed bewildered by the statement; she said the only trauma was from the act of the 19 yr old. 

That story I have known for years, but the weird part is she never made it out to be any type of big traumatic deal. He wasn't violent, he was just determined. And according to her, he had done this to other young girls he met as well. But I DO understand it doesn't have to be violent to be traumatic, especially at her age then.


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## turnera

My first time, a guy tricked me into doing it. He knew exactly what he was doing and I was just trying to make him happy, certain nothing was going to happen, and it did. It was so traumatic for me that I can relay every single minute detail of those few minutes, 45 years later.


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## Openminded

Yeah, I can identify with that. For my generation, persistence on a guy's part, and the idea that "no doesn't really mean no," didn't equal rape if you were on a date. Actually, there was no such thing as date rape then -- if you were overpowered or forcefully coerced while on a date, when you had said "no," it was automatically your fault for being alone with him. Girls were the ones blamed then -- not guys.


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## TaDor

@GusPolinski & Eric1 : About RocketSkates76 wife's timeline, is this a typical timeline. The amount of detail, the style? 

To me, it seems to have way more info than is needed - like explaining things that the OP should already know. I never asked for a timeline from my WW as it really wasn't needed. I saw things on her phone, which she admitted later were true or added more complete info. Also she was so messed up on drinking and drugs back then - some things are hazy to her. Even non-affair things at the time, were problematic. (FYI: She is much better at the moment - knock on wood).

The letter seems both sincere and sometimes - hooky. And the sexual interactions with two other men, or at least some odd-plans. Sorry, but if you don't want to suck someone's penis - you don't have to. David didn't put a gun or knife to her head - he just said "I don't get BJs, can you give them to me?" and like magic, it worked.

And she make it out that nothing happened buy giving BJs because it was quick. So is intercourse. I had unplanned sex with my wife today. Just watching TV. She touched, then started oral then more. This is 30minutes before I walk out the door for work. So I think a total of 8 minutes or so. So, the excitement of being commanded to give head to her bandmate, the abilty to jump to PIV is simply not much from there.

And of course, as you said it yourself Gus, "And is oral sex suddenly not "sex"?"

IMHO: In her own words - she did what she did because she wanted to. She wasn't thinking about how it was WRONG for her husband or family. And she laced the time-line letter with "Trust me! I'm not lying" or " I still feel like you are hung up on the belief that we had sex and I will never say we did because we DID NOT. That is the 100% truth. "

For months, my own WW said they did NOT have sex when she ran outta our home. After we started an actual R and MC - she admitted to it, as well as things I wasn't aware of.

I'm tired. About to go to sleep. A last thought. Is there anything in this TIMELINE that the OP didn't find out and talk about first? Other than a few more nudes.


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## Rocket Skates76

PRE TIMELINE I began incessantly accusing her of banging him. I knew nothing except deleted text. She left, took the kids out of state. Next day over the phone, admit to oral once. 

TIMELINE admit to it twice and talk of meeting up in June after 8 month hiatus. 

POST TIMELINE cry and act bewildered because I won't believe it. 

There is actually another timeline as well about her online EA a short 6 months prior as well.


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## Chuck71

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Her older sister and only sibling was 13 or 14 years older than her so she basically was an only child.
> 
> When Her family not involved in large scale ministry they were small business owners so she has always been pretty well taken care of.
> 
> Because of the large scale ministry family dynamic, she dealt with a lot of parental shame for her personal actions as a child and teenager. E.G., as a 13-year-old she was secretly dating a 19-year-old who was in the music business and worked at the local skating rink as well. He came over one evening while she was babysitting at someone else's house and she was raped.
> 
> Her parents kept it a secret for the most part (besides reporting it) and instead of getting her help, they scolded her, saying basically that's what can happen type thing.
> 
> Her mom was overbearing and impossible to please but she had a very close relationship with her father who tragically passed away several years ago. She worked as his worship leader/ children's pastor for many years.
> 
> At 18 she signed a record deal, that same year she got pregnant and was dropped by the label.


I am shocked she held herself together as long as she did. I have to say, she is in need of

intense therapy. She has carried a lot of issues. When a girl's parents teach one way but act another,

it threw a wrench into everything. A daughter / father bond is extremely important.

Was he head of the household and took part in her raising or was that more left to her mom?

I honestly feel pity for her. Promising potential whisked away. Coulda, shoula, woulda.

She is emotionally stunted. Any time things get the least bit stressful, she reverts back to the 

last time, she was emotionally secure. That was a LONG time ago.

A D is still the best option. If she seeks help, be willing to offer encouragement, being she is the 

mother of your kids. But stay away from anything else, she is an electric cable near water.


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## Rocket Skates76

Her and her father were very close, cut from the same cloth almost. Her mom, very overbearing. She ran the home, he was the face and personality of the ministry. He passed away about 5 years ago, self inflicted. About twelve years ago one of his associates basically established a coup and took the whole church somehow and left them w very little. Anyways. 
Yes, my stbxw is a brilliant magnetic person, it is sad.


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## Chuck71

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Her and her father were very close, cut from the same cloth almost. Her mom, very overbearing. She ran the home, he was the face and personality of the ministry. He passed away about 5 years ago, self inflicted. About twelve years ago one of his associates basically established a coup and took the whole church somehow and left them w very little. Anyways.
> Yes, my stbxw is a brilliant magnetic person, it is sad.


She wanted to be like her father, low key. She never wanted to be like her mom.

Since his departure, she has more became her mom, her worst fear.

Like mother, like daughter.


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## turnera

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I have admitted to all I helped to create the "environment" to a degree, I was tired from 65 hr work weeks, she's smothering, etc. but deep down I know I'm not the man she claimed I was, that was justification on her part.


She paints quite a different picture. She says you spent all your free time playing video games or anything else but being with her. I wouldn't call that "to a degree." I would call that a walkaway wife in the making.


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## farsidejunky

RS, there is some clarification needed. I just ran your WW through the ringer in her thread. 

However, if what she says about you is even half true, you have some explaining to do as well.


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## Roselyn

OP, I've been in your shoes for many years, working 65+ or more hours in my career. My career was necessary for our economic survival in a downturn economy. I am the bread winner. My husband & I are considered good looking people. He didn't cheat when opportunities came up, but worked on better communication between us. We are 37 years married (first time for both) and never cheated on each other. I'm sure that he felt lonely many times, but compensated with working for himself as a real estate investor which has ups & downs also. 

I am not a marriage counselor and could not give you advice on your marital situation. You need to see a psychologist to set your mindset in the right direction. There is so much strife & heartbreak that has happened to you. You must choose between drama or peace. I hope that you chose the right road for you.


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## ButtPunch

I feel another Gridcom developing


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## Sofa Sleeper

.


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## Rubix Cubed

Sofa Sleeper said:


> And my STBXH (God I hate that) is brilliant as well. He is dashingly handsome, talented, so smart and feels deeeply when he lets himself. I've always been drawn in a magnetic way to him. We are opposites but *we complete each other.*


 Except when you needed those other guys as part of the equation. I really don't feel you have any clue how badly you've broken Rocket through your actions. You say a lot of words but the underlying tone shows you haven't a clue. Even coming to his thread, which is supposed to be his safe space, and sucking up is a manipulation tactic.


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## WorkingOnMe

Sofa Sleeper said:


> And my STBXH (God I hate that) is brilliant as well. He is dashingly handsome, talented, so smart and feels deeeply when he lets himself. I've always been drawn in a magnetic way to him. We are opposites but we complete each other.




Personally I equate your being on this website to inviting yourself to his private therapy session. Did he invite you to his thread? This just seems disrespectful to me. He's a grown man and can find his way without your help or influence. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arobk

turnera said:


> She paints quite a different picture. She says you spent all your free time playing video games or anything else but being with her. I wouldn't call that "to a degree." I would call that a walkaway wife in the making.


She could of walked away but instead she cheated.


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## MattMatt

arobk said:


> She could of walked away but instead she cheated.


Sometimes, people do the wrong thing.

Why? Because people make mistakes.

Because people are human.

Perhaps she didn't walk away because, ultimately, she still wanted her husband, but felt she was not getting her husband. Not her full husband, 100%.

So she found herself seeking what her husband wasn't giving her, elsewhere.

That was wrong.

But then, a husband who spends more time playing games than being a husband does seem to have certain issues of his own that he must address. For his benefit, too. I mean 70 years old and doing nothing but playing computer games would not be cool. Especially if your children never visit anymore because dad has a better relationship with some AI bots in an online game than he does with his own family.



> 1 Corinthians 13:11King James Version (KJV)
> 
> 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.


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## RWB

arobk said:


> She could of walked away *but instead she cheated*.


Actually very common. How many H asked their WW when they discovered cheating, If things (our marriage) were so bad, for so long... 

*Why didn't you just D me, instead of cheat?*

Wait for it... Here it comes... first the tears, next the professions _"I never stopped loving you", "I was broken", "I was so confused", "All I ever really wanted was you"._

And you ask yourself, didn't I just asked about why you needed to cheat? The first of 1000 deflections to come. :scratchhead:


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## Rocket Skates76

You are free to believe her hopeless rendition of myself as an absentee husband and father but that is not the truth. 
Me, perfect? Oh no. 

The past year and a half, I did semi-shut down after her first forced admittance, because I was made to believe it was all my fault...I didn't know how to process all that through the anger and hurt. 

I always thought she was the perfect one and I the failure.


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## MattMatt

Rocket Skates76 said:


> You are free to believe her hopeless rendition of myself as an absentee husband and father but that is not the truth.
> Me, perfect? Oh no.
> 
> The past year and a half, I did semi-shut down after her first forced admittance, because I was made to believe it was all my fault...I didn't know how to process all that through the anger and hurt.
> 
> I always thought she was the perfect one and I the failure.


Oh! You too, huh?

Or as Robert Burns put it: "O wad some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!"

We are not as bad/good as we think.


----------



## farsidejunky

Rocket Skates76 said:


> You are free to believe her hopeless rendition of myself as an absentee husband and father but that is not the truth.
> Me, perfect? Oh no.
> 
> The past year and a half, I did semi-shut down after her first forced admittance, because I was made to believe it was all my fault...I didn't know how to process all that through the anger and hurt.
> 
> I always thought she was the perfect one and I the failure.


Which is exactly why you have lots of work to do on you. Gaslighting rarely works on a man who believes in himself.


----------



## turnera

arobk said:


> She could of walked away but instead she cheated.


I quite agree. However, he, too, is trying to minimize his role in her unhappiness. Which does nothing for HIS learning and growth.


----------



## ButtPunch

Rocket Skates76 said:


> You are free to believe her hopeless rendition of myself as an absentee husband and father but that is not the truth.
> Me, perfect? Oh no.


I'm not buying it. It's straight out of the cheaters handbook. Make it your fault.
Happens every time. She isn't even good at the gaslighting.

Insist on the poly. See how many affairs and emotional affairs there have been.


----------



## aine

Rocket Skates76 said:


> You are free to believe her hopeless rendition of myself as an absentee husband and father but that is not the truth.
> Me, perfect? Oh no.
> 
> The past year and a half, I did semi-shut down after her first forced admittance, because I was made to believe it was all my fault...I didn't know how to process all that through the anger and hurt.
> 
> I always thought she was the perfect one and I the failure.


RS, I have read your version and I have read her version and I am sorry to say that neither of you are perfect (none of us are) but unless she really has a major 'come to Jesus' moment, she aint changing. She is talking the talk, saying all the right things, but I don't care how mistreated or neglected a person is and one who supposedly is a Christian, there is now way in hell a mouth can find a way to another man's penis, there was absolute intent. If you love someone as much as she says she loves you, there is no way that would happen. She is still all about her and nothing more or less. She is deeply flawed and I guess it is something to do with her CA/rape, but one cannot blame all and sundry there comes a time when one must take responsibility. It will be to your credit to forgive and reconcile but tbh, unless she is remorseful (which she aint yet) then I can see the same thing happening down the road as she is still blame shifting.

You would be well within your right to move on. In addition you and she got together under flawed circumstances, these things have a way of coming back and biting us, you know what goes around comes around and all that. I am sure you both caused SOs pain in your earlier lives, God has a way of teaching us how it is.


----------



## aine

turnera said:


> I quite agree. However, he, too, is trying to minimize his role in her unhappiness. Which does nothing for HIS learning and growth.


Am I right in saying they had an affair, he left his marriage, she left hers and they then got together? These things never end well imo.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Turnera,
Excellent point and objective observation.


----------



## StillSearching

Rocket I am exactly where you are in my marriage.
I have been getting myself together knowing for well a D is in my future.
It's not enough to say to yourself she might do it again.
Keep working on improving yourself. Leave her if you must. 
Only she can fix herself. She has a LONG way to go.
My therapist told me there is a less than 2% chance that my wife will change on her own.
The percentage goes way up if she experiences a huge life changing event that rocks her soul.
Like the one you just had.
I wish you all the best!


----------



## Nucking Futs

She's admitted to two PA's and an EA. Serial cheater, nothing to save here, move on.


----------



## MattMatt

aine said:


> RS, I have read your version and I have read her version and I am sorry to say that neither of you are perfect (none of us are) but unless she really has a major 'come to Jesus' moment, she aint changing. She is talking the talk, saying all the right things, but I don't care how mistreated or neglected a person is and one who supposedly is a Christian, there is now way in hell a mouth can find a way to another man's penis, there was absolute intent. If you love someone as much as she says she loves you, there is no way that would happen. She is still all about her and nothing more or less. She is deeply flawed and I guess it is something to do with her CA/rape, but one cannot blame all and sundry there comes a time when one must take responsibility. It will be to your credit to forgive and reconcile but tbh, unless she is remorseful (which she aint yet) then I can see the same thing happening down the road as she is still blame shifting.
> 
> You would be well within your right to move on. In addition you and she got together under flawed circumstances, these things have a way of coming back and biting us, you know what goes around comes around and all that. I am sure you both caused SOs pain in your earlier lives, God has a way of teaching us how it is.


My wife also suffered CSA as a young girl. It only stopped when she took a knife with her and sliced his face open.

The abuse damaged her, obviously.


----------



## Thor

Abuse is a reason but not an excuse. And not even a good reason if she is over the age of about 23. A person is obligated to do what is right by their spouse, and they are obligated to seek to be the best spouse they can. When they are aware of a particular weakness, fault, unresolved trauma, physical impairment, emotional impairment, or whatever, they are obligated to seek to overcome it to the extent possible.

The CSA victim probably has little understanding of the kind of effects it has had on them, but by their early 20's they should be aware that they do have issues from it. To knowingly inflict the trauma onto their spouse because they are unwilling to seek treatment themselves is not an acceptable thing to do. They can privately seek professional help, they can D their spouse, they can tell their spouse what is going on inside them and ask for support. There are numerous paths they can choose which honor their responsibility to their spouse not to pass on the abuse.

Everybody has something they need to work on. Weight, physical condition, Nice Guy Syndrome, laziness, addictions, dyslexia, diabetes, physical injuries, etc etc. The CSA victim doesn't get some special pass on their issues or get to use it as an excuse to abuse their spouse via infidelity or other ways.


----------



## StillSearching

As much as my wife's CSA has hurt my marriage, I feel like i'm a CSA secondary victim.


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## Roselyn

OP, a poster in your wife's thread just mentioned that you cheated w/ SS (your current wife) in your first marriage. What is your expectation with SS, knowing that she has an adulterous nature? You both cheated on your spouses. Not to scold you, but your relationship was built on shifting sands from the beginning. You need to reflect about the nature of your marriage and your realistic expectations.  This changes my view on your marriage and the future of your situation.


----------



## Diana7

Roselyn said:


> OP, a poster in your wife's thread just mentioned that you cheated w/ SS (your current wife) in your first marriage. What is your expectation with SS, knowing that she has an adulterous nature? You both cheated on your spouses. Not to scold you, but your relationship was built on shifting sands from the beginning. You need to reflect about the nature of your marriage and your realistic expectations. This changes my view on your marriage and the future of your situation.


 A marriage/relationship where one or both cheated on their past spouse rarely lasts for obvious reasons. I have no idea why anyone is surprised when cheating then happens in their marriage, what did they expect?


----------



## Chuck71

Rocket Skates76 said:


> You are free to believe her hopeless rendition of myself as an absentee husband and father but that is not the truth.
> Me, perfect? Oh no.
> 
> The past year and a half, I did semi-shut down after her first forced admittance, because I was made to believe it was all my fault...I didn't know how to process all that through the anger and hurt.
> 
> I always thought she was the perfect one and I the failure.


Most people do..... shut down after their spouse has a damn affair. With me, cheating is a deal breaker.

I've never cheated, so I expect the same. Pop told me years ago.... -A man shouldn't cheat.

That's for the attention ho females. A good woman would never cheat. If you see another girl

you like more, be a man and walk up, tell her it's over. Don't be a chicken schit. And if she asks 

why, tell her.- 

Why is cheating a deal breaker for me? Yes you can still love a cheating wife / gf BUT... can you

ever trust her again? Love with out trust is very unhealthy and will grind at your insides.

RS'76..... and if indeed his W is on here..... proceed with the D. After all the cheating, this M has

been dead awhile, so kill it. Each work on yourself, and have the children as close to 50 / 50

as possible. Have coffee date every blue moon.... maybe a family outing a few times a year.

Maybe...... maybe..... 4-5 years later, something could happen. Right now.... too many bombs have

been dropped to "wipe it all away." And if a R is tried.... it has failure written all over it already.

Then what happens? Fast forward two years..... more miserable than now, hating each

other, dragging emotions through lawyers, and yes.... throwing the kids in the middle. I've seen it

95% of the time since my days in jr. high.

RS'76..... here's the deal with some about 65 hour weeks..... if you beat you brains out working

to provide for your family you will get -You are a great provider but not a great family man- or if 

you cut back your hours to be available to family....... -You are a great family man but you are

not a great provider- Okay.... to that one should say "Pick one, you can't have both, if you want both,

you will have neither." Back in early 00's, WC and I had been M a few years, I was working 70-80

hours a week (was very stress free though). I get the -great provider / not family man- spill.

"Well... ya know.... wouldn't have to work all these hours if my income wasn't the only one coming 

in to pay the bills (she had "medical issues" but had no problem sitting on her ass playing games 

all day on AOL). How bouts you get off your ass and get, at least... a P/T job so I won't have to

work as much." She did..... I cut my hours. Problem solved.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Diana7 and Roslyn, 
I understand and believe that concept if both parties involved in the affair never pursued any type of personal healing or growth as individuals or a couple. Obviously we did not LOL. If you read through the entirety of this thread you will find I have never once defend my actions.

That is the rule, but there are exceptions; but once again we are not that exception. 

Like it was already stated the real losers here are our children.


----------



## Chuck71

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Diana7 and Roslyn,
> I understand and believe that concept if both parties involved in the affair never pursued any type of personal healing or growth as individuals or a couple. Obviously we did not LOL. If you read through the entirety of this thread you will find I have never once defend my actions.
> 
> That is the rule, but there are exceptions; but once again we are not that exception.
> 
> Like it was already stated the real losers here are our children.


I do hope the beatings over how they met have concluded...... He was already hammered for it

in the beginning. The horse is dead.... Kinda why Zillard no longer posts here anymore.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

I don't think they knew that. No worries, it's perfectly fine.


----------



## Mrs. John Adams

Rocket...how do you feel after reading your wife's thread?

What is your gut feeling?


----------



## Chuck71

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Rocket...how do you feel after reading your wife's thread?
> 
> What is your gut feeling?


RS'76.......... I would recommend you start a private thread where only those who are invited can

read or post. Maybe select 4-5 guys, 4-5 gals. Those with experience in Rs and infidelity 

are your best bet. Be glad to recommend some in PMs. BTW..... I would NOT be one recommended.


----------



## MJJEAN

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Rocket...how do you feel after reading your wife's thread?
> 
> What is your gut feeling?


I don't know how he feels, but I just read his wife's thread and my gut is feeling nauseated. It's all about her. She is the star of her own reality show drama where she's the victim, at worst, and has excuses, at best. She honestly believes strangers on the internet destroyed her marriage because she can't admit that her serial adultery destroyed her marriage.

Personally, I hope @Rocket Skates76 gets away from the manipulative, toxic, "woman" he unfortunately married.


----------



## thedope

I really don't want to kick a guy when he is down. By I believe Rockets reconmected with his wife while she was married due to MySpace. I know he understands this was a bad idea. He is paying the cost now, I am sure his future relationships will be better chosen. It's a shame he had to learn his lesson the hard way.


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## Rocket Skates76

It's like I texted her, this site saved me a lot of heartache and mistakes. TAM is no walk in the park; the truth about yourself,when fully realized and accepted, is not easy, and can simply be disregarded by opening a new tab...that's the magic of being online. 

Here is my point:
I came here looking for answers as to 'what' happened, but I've walked away with answers as to the 'why'...and that 'why' is myself. Period. 
Lack of self respect. Lack of principle. Just coasting by. 

Her thread is her thread; it's not for me to get mixed up in, but there is some outstanding advice posted there. 

And MySpace, lol, good ol' MySpace...


----------



## Roselyn

Rocket, you've seemed to become a wiser person. I hope that you find peace and integrity in your road ahead. I truly hope the best for you.


----------



## TX-SC

Good luck to you Rocket in whatever you decide to do. Unlike others here, I see not only regret, but also remorse, in your wife's post. It took some serious guts for her to come into this site as a WS looking for input. She seems to be at least trying to figure herself out. Yes, there was some deflecting of blame about feeling "alone" in your marriage, but some of that is to be expected until they finally get it. Regardless, the ball is in your court and you are free to keep playing or pack it up and leave. I wish you luck with this. I know you are in pain and it's no easy decision.


----------



## Satya

This forum really is not for everyone, so I wouldn't be surprised if she moves elsewhere. 

A good friend tells you what you don't want to hear, but need to hear. I think she's not yet in that state to really hear. She is too busy talking and rationalizing and explaining and despite using so many words, speaks very little to many of us. This is how she is processing things out loud. She shouldn't feel denied that opportunity but she'd get a better empathetic response elsewhere. 

Advice here is often blanketed in what seems like hostile intent but it is designed to really make you think about what you want. What your goal is. If you want to R, there are some "must haves" and "nice to haves." The goal is to ensure you can get the musts at the very least or it's false R. 

If you want to D, then the goal is to cut the tethers and learn to be a complete person without her. Restrict communication to things only child-related. Move on with your life, heal, find happiness on your own, and possibly with another if that's the path you choose. 

There is one truth I see on this board time and again (and I've experienced it first hand): you can love someone deeply, madly, and eternally and *they can still be wrong for you*.


----------



## Openminded

I agree, Satya. 

Love does not mean that someone is right for you.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rocket,
You need to be aware ,if you're not already, that your wife's presence here was solely to find out what is going on with you and work up a strategy accordingly, not to actually work on herself. While here she had the added opportunity to throw a few monkey wrenches into the advice you've been given. She's a slick, slimy one for sure. I would be VERY skeptical of every word out of her mouth. She's all over the place depending on what she's trying to accomplish for herself (and that's the endgame) and rather she stepped over the line. As soon as she steps over a line she acts all sweet and humble, only to crank up the blameshifter until she steps over the line again. Very cyclic. She is a narcissistic manipulator of the highest order and you'd be advised to tread lightly. Using God as her prybar after what she has done repeatedly, is despicable.


----------



## Taxman

Rocket
FWIW your STBX, make no mistake here, she makes no compelling argument for reconciliation. What I get from her posts is that she nearly feels justified in seeking the ego kibble, and thought she'd get away with it. More regret than remorse. One thinks that the relationship couLd return, but she needs consequence. I noted that she freaks out when she sees you looking better. She projects, probably with some veracity, that you are moving onto other women. Personally, one hopes you are. Sauce for the goose, so to speak.

I believe that you should move on, she is untrustworthy, and every time there is a perceived lack of attention, she goes seeking a fresh di(k. Let her have the consequence of you seeking a better woman. I believe you should have a new relationship or two. 

Edit: After reading one of her last posts, I beleive she is desperate. Bringing in the psycho-analysis is really kind of late to this party, if you'll excuse me, it feels fairly dis-ingenuous. FWIW, she has a ton of work to do, and whether it be married to you or otherwise, it is her work to do.


----------



## Chuck71

Entitled princess...... understatement

Manipulating narcissistic leech......... understatement

The two Bible-ians, one for them, one for others...... understatement

Anakin Skywalker after the Dark Side....... BINGO

Run.... do not walk, RUN!!! Leave skid marks in the rose bushes.


----------



## Affaircare

@Rocket Skates76, 

You know, it really is not my job to tell you whether you should or should not divorce. I think of myself as a bible-believing Christian, and that's important because that means that I think I should LIVE life the way that the Bible says, even when it's not natural or not easy. I also recognize that all human beings make mistakes. Shoot I've been there! Thus, I think of my job here as being to give you the wisest council I can in order to bring about right relationship with God and live a moral and peaceful life. 

I did write to your wife in hopes of letting her know that she is not the first "Christian" to do the wrong thing and commit adultery. I wanted her to hear that there is hope for her in the sense of reconciling herself to God by asking for His forgiveness and then doing a U-Turn (meaning, that she has to turn from what she WAS doing to doing things the exact opposite way--stop doing "the wrong thing" and start doing "the right thing"). But I also wanted her to hear that the natural consequence, or cost, of choosing to commit adultery is that by her actions, the past marriage is no longer alive...and she killed it. You have the moral option to choose divorce, and it would not be YOU "killing the marriage" it would be her actions of being unfaithful. Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 both mention that divorcing for the reason of sexual immorality is moral. 

So my job is to inform you that you are responsible for your actions, your choices, your wrongs. If you were a neglectful husband, worked too long, played video games instead of spending time with your wife, got into porn... those things are not the godly way to treat a wife or to live in a marriage, and those would be things I would challenge you to get right. Get into your Bible and find out what a godly husband looks like and how he treats his wife--Old and New Testament! And then more and more, begin to become that man. It is right and reasonable for you to clean up your side of the street. 

But it is just as equally my job to also inform you that it is right and reasonable for you to make the choice to divorce due to sexual immorality. It is my objective observation that SofaSleeper has cheated four times in her life: once in her previous marriage with SoundGuy, once with you as her previous marriage was ending, once with MethMan, and once with GuitarBoy. She has had her "second chances" and the gift of reconciliation, and she STILL chose to cheat again. As many have said here, since this has been her go-to method of coping with disappointment or pain in her life, chances are good she will continue to go there until there is some MAJOR life-changing event in her life. Some people have that major life-changing event when they go through a divorce--but it would appear that going through her previous divorce was not sufficient for her to confront herself and really deal with why she chooses to cheat. Based on her reaction to facing the ugly truth here, it would also appear that going through the possible end of her current marriage is also not sufficient (at this time). 

Therefore, I want you to know that I am a believer that our God is a God of miracles, and He can do anything that He chooses. However, I have been around the sun a time or two, and when someone says "I've changed!" or "I'll change" without any evidence of actually being changed or having changed, I don't believe them. God IS the only thing that has the possibility of utterly changing someone's heart from wanting to do sin--to abhorring it and wanting to be godly. But when that kind of a miracle is accomplished, then the change within the person is DEMONSTRABLE...you'll see it! And it's not always a change from black to pure white instantly either--but the attitude of hating the black will be evident as they act consistently more and more and more white. 

As you make your decision, please bear these things in mind. Ask yourself the hard questions and be honest even if it's hard or hurts. Look for EVIDENCE--a demonstrated difference in thinking and acting. Don't look to your emotions as a way to make the decision, because emotions are fickle--coming and going based on hunger, tiredness, or time of month even! Instead, look for long-term, consistent, proven evidence of change. Okay?


----------



## Stang197

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Anyone ever read anything on pulling up auto GPS tracking history?
> I.e. Where they were at etc



I know a way. It depends on a couple of things. If you still want this info PM me and maybe it could work for you. All depends on a couple of things.


----------



## aine

How have you been Rocket?


----------



## Roselyn

Op, now that your wife's thread has been closed by the moderator, what is your view of your situation? I really do not feel that your wife, Sofa, gets that she must owe up to every damage that she has done to your marriage and stop hiding behind the veil of Christianity. 

You opened your post by saying that you left your wife for your current wife (who was also married). Did you help your ex-wife in healing with your betrayal? Did you learn something about yourself in your situation?

It is sad to see Drifting On become a casualty of your wife's thread. I believe that your wife posted the thread to openly court you back.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Emerson's famous words, "Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear what you are saying," have never applied more than to your wife's now closed thread. 

As a devout Catholic I believe in reconciliation and forgiveness, and I don't doubt that there were threads of sincerity in your wife's words and feelings. Obviously, she wants to preserve the marriage. But even sincerity can be temporal. And she may not have the wherewithal or intestinal fortitude to stay true when the marriage once again plateaus or hits its inevitable mundane moments. That's been her lifelong pattern, and that's why her tone rang like a fallen televangelist to the skeptical ears of many who read her posts.

When your wife showed such a cruel disregard for you with her first affair, you dealt with the devastation in a state of quiet desperation. After the second time, you may have decided that even though you love your wife, you will not abide her callous disregard a second time. There is a limit to how much abuse and disregard a spouse can put up with. Add to all that the genesis of your marriage--the breaking up of two marriages for an unholy union--and you have quite a bit of wreckage to sort through.

If you decide to reconcile, you will need to set very strict boundaries, and she will have to offer full transparency and give a full account of her daily activities. Without that in place, house money says she will revert to her wayward tendencies.


----------



## drifting on

Roselyn said:


> Op, now that your wife's thread has been closed by the moderator, what is your view of your situation? I really do not feel that your wife, Sofa, gets that she must owe up to every damage that she has done to your marriage and stop hiding behind the veil of Christianity.
> 
> You opened your post by saying that you left your wife for your current wife (who was also married). Did you help your ex-wife in healing with your betrayal? Did you learn something about yourself in your situation?
> 
> It is sad to see Drifting On become a casualty of your wife's thread. I believe that your wife posted the thread to openly court you back.




Sometimes it is difficult to express in words without giving more personal information then you wish to give. By this I mean, in explaining my own reasons for reconciling I leave it as, it Ishtar best and healthiest decision for me. This still left many people to doubt and pick apart my words. The same has been done to Sofas words. Each time she posted others criticized what she said, if she said the right thing, she was criticized anyway. How do you really get your point across when your words are torn apart? I ask this genuinely, read the posts, what could she have written? Do you honestly blame her for getting angry? Defensive? Again, I'll be persecuted and said to be "loyal" for defending her. It's not so much I'm defending Sofa, but rather the WS's who come here and get run off. How is it helping Sofa or any WS who comes here and is said her thread was just to win over the TAM crowd? How is it helpful when a WS opens their heart, says the right thing and then is said to be trying to be manipulative? 

I ask all of that genuinely, so I spoke to Sofa in private to help. Rocket and I in his words, "we're in constant contact" while Sofa and I pm'd each other. It was then said that Sofa and I became loyal to each other and have both decided to leave. I'm posting right now so I haven't left, but I am deciding if I will stay or not. I have helped other WS's in pm, did that ever come up? Was my integrity or boundaries ever questioned in those threads? No, they weren't, and the PM's I have read from Sofa are encouraging that she is on the right path. However, I have been told that I should search my heart and make any further contact with Sofa to be in public. I searched my heart, and my heart says I will decide what to post in public or pm. I have asked for rockets consent, been granted this contact, and all PM's can be sent to rocket for transparency. There is no colluding between Sofa and myself, there is no loyalty that has not been extended to any poster I contact in private. 

I consider the post written to be that of projection, projection from the own faults of the poster. A poster who made baseless accusations not based in reality. I have boundaries, I have made vows, and just because she was weak and gave in to her faults are not what happened here. I have never cheated in any relationship I have been in, I will not destroy my vows as they are a core belief to me. My intentions were to help a person (Sofa) who had destroyed herself. My intentions were to bring her to a path of healing, for herself, not her marriage, as she is not ready to make that step. Sofa has many steps to take to become the best she can be, to be healthy once again for a marriage. It will take time and hard work on herself, and the first was bringing her to God so she has faith and hope. Not hope for a marriage, hope so that she can heal herself and once again become healthy. Truthfully, I don't think Rocket or Sofa should be thinking reconciliation for at least a year, they need to heal themselves individually and then become healthy to be a spouse either for each other or someone else.


----------



## Rick Blaine

drifting on said:


> Sometimes it is difficult to express in words without giving more personal information then you wish to give. By this I mean, in explaining my own reasons for reconciling I leave it as, it Ishtar best and healthiest decision for me. This still left many people to doubt and pick apart my words. The same has been done to Sofas words. Each time she posted others criticized what she said, if she said the right thing, she was criticized anyway. How do you really get your point across when your words are torn apart? I ask this genuinely, read the posts, what could she have written? Do you honestly blame her for getting angry? Defensive? Again, I'll be persecuted and said to be "loyal" for defending her. It's not so much I'm defending Sofa, but rather the WS's who come here and get run off. How is it helping Sofa or any WS who comes here and is said her thread was just to win over the TAM crowd? How is it helpful when a WS opens their heart, says the right thing and then is said to be trying to be manipulative?
> 
> I ask all of that genuinely, so I spoke to Sofa in private to help. Rocket and I in his words, "we're in constant contact" while Sofa and I pm'd each other. It was then said that Sofa and I became loyal to each other and have both decided to leave. I'm posting right now so I haven't left, but I am deciding if I will stay or not. I have helped other WS's in pm, did that ever come up? Was my integrity or boundaries ever questioned in those threads? No, they weren't, and the PM's I have read from Sofa are encouraging that she is on the right path. However, I have been told that I should search my heart and make any further contact with Sofa to be in public. I searched my heart, and my heart says I will decide what to post in public or pm. I have asked for rockets consent, been granted this contact, and all PM's can be sent to rocket for transparency. There is no colluding between Sofa and myself, there is no loyalty that has not been extended to any poster I contact in private.
> 
> I consider the post written to be that of projection, projection from the own faults of the poster. A poster who made baseless accusations not based in reality. I have boundaries, I have made vows, and just because she was weak and gave in to her faults are not what happened here. I have never cheated in any relationship I have been in, I will not destroy my vows as they are a core belief to me. My intentions were to help a person (Sofa) who had destroyed herself. My intentions were to bring her to a path of healing, for herself, not her marriage, as she is not ready to make that step. Sofa has many steps to take to become the best she can be, to be healthy once again for a marriage. It will take time and hard work on herself, and the first was bringing her to God so she has faith and hope. Not hope for a marriage, hope so that she can heal herself and once again become healthy. Truthfully, I don't think Rocket or Sofa should be thinking reconciliation for at least a year, they need to heal themselves individually and then become healthy to be a spouse either for each other or someone else.


 @drifting, I know that your intentions were pure, but saying the same thing over and over and over again in slightly different ways doesn't move the needle. Sofa's thread became a glorified therapy session and a rambling, recycling stream of consciousness. That's why so many saw it as disingenuous or self-serving. That approach is not what is needed to help her. She has this need to be listened to and to bask in attention. That is what has gotten her into trouble in the past. She makes inappropriate connections with men and it takes off from there. And for this reason you should not be PMing her. This is a woman who has wondered into so many affairs that she wouldn't recognize a boundary if she ran into a wall. That is why Affaircare said it was inappropriate for a male to offer her counsel. She is right. 

If Rocket agrees to reconcile, he has to put firm boundaries in place, and those boundaries must be enforced. This includes no opposite sex friendships or counseling. But shouldn't that be obvious?


----------



## Magnesium

It seemed clear to me that Sofa exhibits extreme narcissism and that her thread was feeding her sick need for attention and helping her to sharpen her manipulation skills. She was learning from the posters what everyone wanted to hear and then attempting to convey those things as her true feelings. As I have said before, I don't buy a word of what she has been attempting to sell and I sure do hope that Rocket does some true soul-searching, praying, repenting and asking the Lord for guidance through this before he makes any attempt at reconciliation. Narcissism = insolent pride in the Bible, and "religious" Narcissists are keenly adept at using Scripture eisgetically to manipulate, abuse, blameshift, etc.

It appears to me that Drifting On has been a casualty of narcissistic triangulation.


----------



## drifting on

Rick Blaine said:


> @drifting, I know that your intentions were pure, but saying the same thing over and over and over again in slightly different ways doesn't move the needle. Sofa's thread became a glorified therapy session and a rambling, recycling stream of consciousness. That's why so many saw it as disingenuous or self-serving. That approach is not what is needed to help her. She has this need to be listened to and to bask in attention. That is what has gotten her into trouble in the past. She makes inappropriate connections with men and it takes off from there. And for this reason you should not be PMing her. This is a woman who has wondered into so many affairs that she wouldn't recognize a boundary if she ran into a wall. That is why Affaircare said it was inappropriate for a male to offer her counsel. She is right.
> 
> If Rocket agrees to reconcile, he has to put firm boundaries in place, and those boundaries must be enforced. This includes no opposite sex friendships or counseling. But shouldn't that be obvious?




As I said before, I have spoken to several WS in pm regarding the path back to healing. Most WS are looking for validation from the opposite sex. However, my boundaries are firmly in place, and any attempt for a WS to seek validation would be shut down. That's just how I am. So once again, why is my integrity and character subject to discussion when it is clear that affaircare projected her faults onto me pm'ing a WS? Affaircare should have done this in every thread I tried to help a WS, instead her weakness of cheating has her projecting here. Plain and simple. If Rocket decides I am of no help to Sofa, contact stops, but he has given his consent, he has also said things in pm that is basically encouraging Sofa getting help. This isn't match dot com for me.


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## drifting on

Posted by magnesium

It appears to me that Drifting On has been a casualty of narcissistic triangulation.



Not in the least.


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## drifting on

Rick Blaine said:


> @drifting, I know that your intentions were pure, but saying the same thing over and over and over again in slightly different ways doesn't move the needle. Sofa's thread became a glorified therapy session and a rambling, recycling stream of consciousness. That's why so many saw it as disingenuous or self-serving. That approach is not what is needed to help her. She has this need to be listened to and to bask in attention. That is what has gotten her into trouble in the past. She makes inappropriate connections with men and it takes off from there. And for this reason you should not be PMing her. This is a woman who has wondered into so many affairs that she wouldn't recognize a boundary if she ran into a wall. That is why Affaircare said it was inappropriate for a male to offer her counsel. She is right.
> 
> If Rocket agrees to reconcile, he has to put firm boundaries in place, and those boundaries must be enforced. This includes no opposite sex friendships or counseling. But shouldn't that be obvious?




Gently said, your post here proves exactly what I had said, no matter what Sofa writes you won't actually hear it but pick it apart. I'm asking you genuinely, what could she write that you won't come back with a post like this or above? I guarantee you she has said it but was struck down by 2X4's. How exactly do you think you are helping?


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## drifting on

Magnesium said:


> It seemed clear to me that Sofa exhibits extreme narcissism and that her thread was feeding her sick need for attention and helping her to sharpen her manipulation skills. She was learning from the posters what everyone wanted to hear and then attempting to convey those things as her true feelings. As I have said before, I don't buy a word of what she has been attempting to sell and I sure do hope that Rocket does some true soul-searching, praying, repenting and asking the Lord for guidance through this before he makes any attempt at reconciliation. Narcissism = insolent pride in the Bible, and "religious" Narcissists are keenly adept at using Scripture eisgetically to manipulate, abuse, blameshift, etc.
> 
> It appears to me that Drifting On has been a casualty of narcissistic triangulation.




Once again my point proven, no matter what Sofa wrote, it was narcissum or manipulation. Her thread got to the point she's basically being accused of another affair. Really? One persons projection.....


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## oneMOreguy

drifting on said:


> Posted by magnesium
> 
> It appears to me that Drifting On has been a casualty of narcissistic triangulation.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in the least.


I truly hope you hang around. ...you provide an important balance on many issues. I truly believe SS is trying hard to be a good person, but lacks many of the essential tools to do well in a relationship. I hope all goes well for her and skater.

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk


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## drifting on

Rocket

May I ask you if you have seen improvement in Sofa? For two months out, is she about where she should be? Do you think she is on a path to healing? Only time will prove overall, but is she showing that she is trying to become a better person?


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## Magnesium

drifting on said:


> Once again my point proven, no matter what Sofa wrote, it was narcissum or manipulation. Her thread got to the point she's basically being accused of another affair. Really? One persons projection.....


If that is how you are bent on perceiving it, then anything you choose can "prove your point." From the beginning of her thread she was perceived as a manipulative Narcissist and the behaviors that caused that perception continued (and ramped up), thereby strengthening the perception. 

Why are you defending her so hard? Why protest sooo much? What's really going on here? 

:scratchhead:


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## Rick Blaine

drifting on said:


> Once again my point proven, no matter what Sofa wrote, it was narcissum or manipulation. Her thread got to the point she's basically being accused of another affair. Really? One persons projection.....


Who accused her of having another affair with you? No one. But clearly, she has a horrid rap sheet when it comes to affairs. She needs the protection of boundaries, and so does her husband. It is utterly disrespectful, not helpful, to develop a relationship with her where intimate details of her relationship are being shared privately. She is a serial cheater and there is a very narrow path for her and her husband to save their marriage and protect it. Again, opposite sex friendships must be off the table. 

And while a little therapy can go a long way, too much talking and saying the same thing over and over becomes an exercise in self gratification. And make no mistake about it, that's what her thread became.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Any woman with a history of poor boundaries should not be accepting pms from men. There are like drug addicts and need to keep themselves away from any temptation no matter how small it may be. 

She should not be in any situation to have private conversations with men.


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## drifting on

Magnesium said:


> If that is how you are bent on perceiving it, then anything you choose can "prove your point." From the beginning of her thread she was perceived as a manipulative Narcissist and the behaviors that caused that perception continued (and ramped up), thereby strengthening the perception.
> 
> Why are you defending her so hard? Why protest sooo much? What's really going on here?
> 
> :scratchhead:





Exactly as I stated is what I'm saying, Sofa said nearly everything, she was ripped apart. Once again, what could she have said that she hasn't said that doesn't bring out the 2X4's? How did you help Sofa? By saying she's a narcissist and manipulator? You did a great job then!!


----------



## drifting on

Rick Blaine said:


> Who accused her of having another affair with you? No one. But clearly, she has a horrid rap sheet when it comes to affairs. She needs the protection of boundaries, and so does her husband. It is utterly disrespectful, not helpful, to develop a relationship with her where intimate details of her relationship are being shared privately. She is a serial cheater and there is a very narrow path for her and her husband to save their marriage and protect it. Again, opposite sex friendships must be off the table.
> 
> And while a little therapy can go a long way, too much talking and saying the same thing over and over becomes an exercise in self gratification. And make no mistake about it, that's what her thread became.




That's where you are wrong, intimate details of her marriage were the same details she posted publicly. So now you are assuming our talks were much more intimate then you even know. My discussions with her were along the lines of healing, the steps being taken my wife and I used. No, I haven't shared all publicly the steps my wife and I took, but I have shared them in pm with others who are trying to heal. 

Answer my question now, what could she have written that people would have helped her instead of using 2X4's? You avoid this question, instead say she said the same thing over and over (narcissist), but when she said the right thing (manipulative). What could she write? Genuinely, what could she write? I'll answer your question for you, she couldn't, because she was condemned either way. Go read her thread, look at the replies, show me how you helped her?


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## Magnesium

drifting on said:


> Exactly as I stated is what I'm saying, Sofa said nearly everything, she was ripped apart. Once again, what could she have said that she hasn't said that doesn't bring out the 2X4's? How did you help Sofa? By saying she's a narcissist and manipulator? You did a great job then!!


I am of the opinion that people like Sofa are not interested in the type of help that people here are willing and able to give and that they are unwilling/unable to accept that sort of help anyway. It is also my opinion that many posters did help her do what I believe she wanted help doing. By calling it like I saw it, I had hoped that those who were capable of seeing what I saw so clearly would then heed the warning and cease feeding the beast. 

I get the impression that you desperately want to help people; a noble intention, to be sure. However, I do think your efforts have been misplaced in this instance. I do think you've been "used" and the fact that you are vociferously going to bat for her repeatedly is evidence of the triangulation I spoke of earlier. 

Of course, all I know is what I see here and I base all of my statements on just that.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Drifitng I say this as nicely as possible, you need to take a break. You are an asset for reconciliation, but every once in a while you lose your thinking. You become so emotionally involved, you refuse to see any other way, but your own orthe person you are defending. You just did a bunch of parsed burst responses. Usually when you do this, you have made the OP yourself or your wife. I mean, you just accused someone of projection and I'm sitting back thinking "DO needs to look in the mirror."


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## drifting on

As for defending Sofa, I said before I'm defending a WS who comes here for help but gets driven off. If this is allowed to happen then no WS comes here. You've driven Sofa off, pat yourself on the back for a job well done. The next WS comes and you can do it again. Rinse and repeat. It's really very easy to destroy a WS, rocket is a WS too, I expect you will give him the same treatment, and if you don't I'll post the definition of hypocrite for you. Why do you help one but destroy the other? Are you incapable of helping both? Is one worse then the other? How do you decide who's worse? Didn't Sofa mention rockets faults here too? 

As for what is going on, helping to bring one forward, forward so they can heal.


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## Rocket Skates76

I don't spend a whole lot of time with Sofa. The times I have spent with her she acts 
gutted. That's understandable. 

Progress almost 3 months in I feel is tricky to really discern, especially being this close to the heart of it; being the one recovering from extreme deceit. Actions speak loudest, but I don't want to be around, so most of what I get are texts...

I will say I applaud those that seek to help her from a pure heart and Toughlove. I believe her best friend has become both of those to her. I am not fickle. In spite of everything I still love her and care about her well-being. I do not feel that is a defect within myself; however that does not mean I am pursuing reconciliation actually quite the opposite. 

The VAR is really what set things in stone for me. A couple months ago hearing her conversation with family and friends; ripping my character and integrity calling me emotionally abusive and bipolar...hurt. That very same day of course with me the communication was totally different the attitude and mood totally different as well and I could see how far gone the situation really was and made detaching easier. 

As I've said, I'd learn not to take what happened personally. She didn't hate me she didn't wish me ill will, she was sick and hurting.
I still do not trust her but genuinely do hope through God and others she gets restored.


----------



## drifting on

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Drifitng I say this as nicely as possible, you need to take a break. You are an asset for reconciliation, but every once in a while you lose your thinking. You become so emotionally involved, you refuse to see any other way, but your own orthe person you are defending. You just did a bunch of parsed burst responses. Usually when you do this, you have made the OP yourself or your wife. I mean, you just accused someone of projection and I'm sitting back thinking "DO needs to look in the mirror."




You are wisely correct, but it was the projection of another that started this all. I have also projected as of late in both threads. What made me beyond mad was that sokillme had said my integrity was not being questioned, however, affaircare came right back contradicting herself in the next post. The next post affaircare said she agreed with sokillme, then several paragrapghs later, said Sofa and I were "loyal" in leaving TAM together. Rocket posted after that I have been in constant contact with him (rocket) during the PM's. In other words rocket has full transparency and admits this. Nobody here sees any of this, they instead project or assume of PM's are much deeper then they were. So yea Philly, I'm pissed about my integrity and character being scrutinized, and yes, it's time to take more then a break.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Many EAs don't start as anything that couldn't be shown a spouse. It over time eventually develops into something that involves feelings. That isn't to say I'd think that's what would happen but it's a dangerous road. 

When people connect and bond, emotions get attached. For a woman with poor boundaries and need for validation from men, it's a ticking time bomb even if both people mean well. 
The best way to prevent it from ever happening is to just have no private conversations in the first place. She should know herself well enough to stay away from any private conversations with men. If she didn't then it's very telling of her not being able to monitor herself and hold the strict boundaries she will needs in the future.


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## phillybeffandswiss

drifting on said:


> You are wisely correct, but it was the projection of another that started this all. I have also projected as of late in both threads. What made me beyond mad was that sokillme had said my integrity was not being questioned, however, affaircare came right back contradicting herself in the next post. The next post affaircare said she agreed with sokillme, then several paragraphs later, said Sofa and I were "loyal" in leaving TAM together. Rocket posted after that I have been in constant contact with him (rocket) during the PM's. In other words rocket has full transparency and admits this. Nobody here sees any of this, they instead project or assume of PM's are much deeper then they were. So yea Philly, I'm pissed about my integrity and character being scrutinized, and yes, it's time to take more then a break.


 It will suck if you go because you are one of the more balanced reconciliation posters on the board. I'd argue you are probably the best because you don't make it about gender, the affair or prior actions you try to keep it neutral. You didn't in these two threads and then you are actively deciding on whether to go or stay. Sorry, I'm trying my damnedest to see your side, but you have NEVER, AFAIK, publicly threatened to quit over a thread. I'm not talking, "well, this disgust me it makes me want to leave"type of posts either. As you say, you've talked with MULTIPLE wayward spouses, but I have YET to see you voice, in public, wanting to quit because of a WS being ran off. 

You are so angry, you keep posting why people have apparently misconstrued your posts, but for some reason are not seeing your fault. Do you need me to get the posts though? Seriously? Oh and much of what you are claiming, minus sokillme, is not projection. I will only be speaking for me, but I can see right where this jumped off the rails for you and you don't understand how your words, really lack thereof, may have contributed to the problem.

If not, good luck. I think you are a helpful part to the community, even when I disagree with your assertions.


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## Spicy

I agree with @drifting on.

Nothing she could have said would have gotten her anything but attacked.
People do make mistakes, huge ones, and even multiple times.
I do not believe that a person can _*never*_ change. 
Is a cheater likely to cheat again? Unfortunately yes. Extremely high chance of it. 
We warn those with their head in the sand. Rocket never struck me as such. He has a great head on him.

Should he ultimately try to R with Sofa, I would wish them nothing but success. Beating her to death forever is not the right solution IMO. Those of us who have forgiven, or would consider forgiving can choose to try to help a WS. We each contribute different things to this forum. That's what makes it great. We should all be able to share our opinions and try to help others, even ones that are the Waywards.


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## Rocket Skates76

I am a former wayward spouse. I know that Squarely rests in the back of everyone's mind here, I'm under no illusions. During my time here I have taken it from both sides, and I do understand where both sides are coming from. Even the post I felt were harsh I accepted. 
I will never pretend to be something I am not. I am an adulterer. But also the extension of help and hope provided by many many on here in spite of my former transgression has brought me so much life in this dark time. 

This site boils down to mentality the mentality of the person who approaches it. 
It sure is easy to listen to the people that sympathize with you but the true test is receiving those that make you angry and challenge you.


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## farsidejunky

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I am a former wayward spouse. I know that Squarely rests in the back of everyone's mind here, I'm under no illusions. During my time here I have taken it from both sides, and I do understand where both sides are coming from. Even the post I felt were harsh I accepted.
> I will never pretend to be something I am not. I am an adulterer. But also the extension of help and hope provided by many many on here in spite of my former transgression has brought me so much life in this dark time.
> 
> This site boils down to mentality the mentality of the person who approaches it.
> It sure is easy to listen to the people that sympathize with you but the true test is receiving those that make you angry and challenge you.


Isn't it, though.


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## Chuck71

Rocket Skates76 said:


> I don't spend a whole lot of time with Sofa. The times I have spent with her she acts
> gutted. That's understandable.
> 
> Progress almost 3 months in I feel is tricky to really discern, especially being this close to the heart of it; being the one recovering from extreme deceit. Actions speak loudest, but I don't want to be around, so most of what I get are texts...
> 
> I will say I applaud those that seek to help her from a pure heart and Toughlove. I believe her best friend has become both of those to her. I am not fickle. In spite of everything I still love her and care about her well-being. I do not feel that is a defect within myself; however that does not mean I am pursuing reconciliation actually quite the opposite.
> 
> The VAR is really what set things in stone for me. A couple months ago hearing her conversation with family and friends; ripping my character and integrity calling me emotionally abusive and bipolar...hurt. That very same day of course with me the communication was totally different the attitude and mood totally different as well and I could see how far gone the situation really was and made detaching easier.
> 
> As I've said, I'd learn not to take what happened personally. She didn't hate me she didn't wish me ill will, she was sick and hurting.
> I still do not trust her but genuinely do hope through God and others she gets restored.


You saw the best of times and later, the worst of times.

You saw her without her mask on.

You have to do what is healthy for YOU.

You have kids.... connection will always be there..... But to what degree is YOUR choice.

What does Skates want?

BTW..... What's your thought on US men's soccer in jeopardy of not making the '18 World Cup?

If we're 4th, can we beat Syria?


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## Chuck71

Skates....... Compare / contrast here. 1-You cheated on your W and Sofa on her H. Ok... 

2-The person you were then, what.... 2002?, what is it from then to now?

I can example if you like...........


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## sokillme

drifting on said:


> You are wisely correct, but it was the projection of another that started this all. I have also projected as of late in both threads. What made me beyond mad was that sokillme had said my integrity was not being questioned, however, affaircare came right back contradicting herself in the next post. The next post affaircare said she agreed with sokillme, then several paragrapghs later, said Sofa and I were "loyal" in leaving TAM together. Rocket posted after that I have been in constant contact with him (rocket) during the PM's. In other words rocket has full transparency and admits this. Nobody here sees any of this, they instead project or assume of PM's are much deeper then they were. So yea Philly, I'm pissed about my integrity and character being scrutinized, and yes, it's time to take more then a break.


I just want to say I don't think you would do anything wrong, I don't think your integrity is in question, I also don't think I ever said any of that. I did say that it's not a good idea for her to be texting men in private, at the very least out of consideration of her husband even if he knows. He is not going to say anything about it. Again at the very least is bad form. Again not your problem DO I get it. 

She also text me privately by the way. My first response was as I said in the other thread that trying to contact me in private fits the secretive pattern she has established, among some other things that I have said in her thread. She didn't text me after that. Anyway I don't think you DO would do anything wrong, however I do think you are being taken in by her a little bit. I don't think she is as sincere as she thinks she is. I thinks she wants to be but falls back into a familiar pattern of staying things that she knows will get people on her side. It's interesting how quickly her tone changed once everyone started getting on her. At first she came on very incredulous, but that quickly changed when she saw that wouldn't work. She grew up in the church and people here responded to that at first as she I think sincerely talked about her spiritually. So now she talks church. My problem with that is she needs to stop looking for affirmation. That should not be the point of her thread. She needs to be brutally honest about who she is, that is the only way she is going to get better. She is like an affirmation sink hole. You can tell that has been and is her primary motivation. But that is the problem. 

I have to say I think she would do better on SI in the WW section. I think they will call her on stuff and there will be much less drama and she wouldn't be able to fall back on the (that's a bunch of hurt people bashing me) line. 

If you have followed my post, there are times I am very kind to WS even if I don't think they are worthy of R, and times I am pretty harsh. In her case she doesn't need affirmation, because that is her drug. She continues to follow this same pattern that got her into trouble with men, here on her own thread. This is why I posted about she would do better to stop with the God stuff and start posting about her issues. Her need for affirmation is why she is an entertainer, it's why most entertainers are entertainers. It's why she did what she did for that guy. That is why she had her EA, she is desperately looking for people to tell her how wonderful she is. She wants people to reassure her, tell her she is OK, worth something. 

The thing is that is a trap for her at least right now when it is her drug of choice. There are going to be times in her life and in her marriage for instance when her husband isn't as attuned to that (as we all are want to do when life gets busy). She needs to learn how to feel OK about herself even if she doesn't have that. And now is not the time to be feeling good about herself. Now is not the time for everyone to tell how great she is, frankly only based on some stuff she posts on a board. Cheaters are quite adept at manipulating situations to get what they want. I think this is exactly what she is or was doing on her thread. She certainly wasn't doing it asking questions and trying to work out her feelings. The whole thread is about getting people to give her ego points. As an example compare her thread to someone like _CantSleepCantEat_ who has a quite prominent thread on the WW section of SI. Personally I don't think her marriage should or will survive but I DO think if she keep up work like she is doing she will eventually carry on a healthy relationship. You ask DO, what could she post to get people where people would not give 2x4s. If she was posting like that, I would be helping her. I was trying to get her to post like that TO help her. To me that is what a WS thread should look like, if the WS is really trying to change. Not one spouting a bunch of platitudes trying to get people to tell her how good she is doing. 

My overall point is if she comes here and uses TAM and sorry you @drifting on (though I don't think you are aware of it) as her new source for her broken self esteem then she isn't really fixing the problem. This may be her one real chance to change, but if after 10 weeks her IC and people here are going to tell her she is fixed it's and how great it is, it's going to be a waste. I don't think she has changed much at all yet, she is too desperate to be right and liked. I am hoping that her IC can see through her facade but I am a little uneasy. Beautiful talented people who are used to putting on a show are really good at putting on a great show. But it's still just a show. 

She has life long patterns that need to be exposed, targeted, talked about and trained against. In my mind anyway. 

The worst is that all of this has caught up two very good prominent posters. I am also sure that @Affaircare doesn't need to be thinking about this with what she is going through. May even be why she was a little sterner then usual, I mean I am the one who usually has people pissed off at them, what gives! >
I also think AC is exactly the kind of women she need to have mentor her. She gets it. 

Anyway I hope you are not upset with me DO, I also am a little annoyed that I always seem to be caught up in the drama on here. Even when I don't say anything bad about the person. I also hope you don't leave DO. You are a good voice here.


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## sokillme

TAM's wonderful interface strikes again. Double post.


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## Chuck71

Drifting On.......... What if C1800 never was able to hear your thoughts and input?

Could another poster went as in-depth as you? ??? .... You are a modest person so I will not list

the many others you have helped. Just C1800.... being the first time I read your posts.

You post here for the OP..... no one else. No matter how your thoughts are, you will have

detractors. EVERYONE does..... re-think your decision. Who knows.... there may be a C1900

composing his / her first post as we speak.


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## Affaircare

@Rocket Skates76, 

I am more and more impressed by you. From what I can observe of how you write and think, I believe you "get it" and are very consistent, so from me to you: "Carry on I believe you're thinking clearly and on a good path." 
@drifting on, 

I am going to choose to not engage in defending myself because I believe we just disagree. I do not believe it is wise to counsel a serial WS in private with opposite genders, because one of the #1 goals for a truly repentant WS is to stop being unfaithful and think (and act) in an entirely new way that is FAITHFUL. There are two steps involved: 1) stop the infidelity, and 2) start fidelity! From what I can discern, you do not believe as I do, and that's your choice. 

But I do want to make it clear that had I known you were PM'ing numerous female WS's privately, I would have advised/suggested the exact same thing to you. This wasn't about you and Sofa at all! It wasn't an accusation either. It was about "best practices" if you will, or wise mature behavior avoiding even the possible appearance of evil. If I know better, it is my job to not be a stumbling block to a brother or sister who doesn't know better! It's my duty. 

Honestly that's not projection. I know for a fact I could speak with male human beings in PM and keep it utterly professional because I've had years of practice thinking faithfully and I work hard at being utterly loving toward my husband alone. However, I chose not to PM with the fellas, not because *I* can't but because I don't know if they can! Plus I can be darn charming and lovable. (giggle) 

Finally, I do believe there is some truth to my style being a bit more harsh, this week especially. In most ways that count, my heart is shattered, and it's hard to be all kind and loving when I'm reminding myself that it's okay if all I can do is keep breathing. I definitely believe I am impatient with playing games and did not write in my usual, gentler style. But I also have to say, I don't think it was necessarily false! I honestly do not believe it's a wise idea for a WS to PM with a member of the opposite sex! I have no idea if lines were crossed or not. Even if I assume the best, and I do until I have reason to believe otherwise, it just looks like the same pattern is continuing. 

Meanwhile, I won't write on this thread again. I've had the chance to say my piece. We fairly clearly disagree. But I have some faith in @Rocket Skates76 and he seems sound to me, and I do not want to be involved in controversy. As always, I let my actions speak for me.


----------



## Chuck71

Can I PM you if it's about baseball cards, Chevy motors or a diatribe on the downfall of the US?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Your opinion is valuable..... re-think.


----------



## Affaircare

OOO @Chuck71, the Chevy motors is so tempting!

Seriously, can't we share that with the world? The world NEEDS more muscle!


----------



## Satya

To @drifting on and anyone who has been following and involved the latest discussions, I just want to offer that I keep my PMs disabled for a reason and that reason is one @Affaircare has alluded to several times.

The PM feature is available, and it is a choice. The intentions in helping over PM are not in question (at least, I do not believe they are) but the actions seem to be. Given sofa's history, I honestly believe SHE should have disabled PMs and accepted advice where it could have been shared on the open forum and suggested, but it's not for me to say or decide what other people do. I can appreciate that some privacy can be preserved when taking things to PM, but I personally wouldn't share details requiring privacy in the first place.

I wouldn't want to see any valuable posters leaving unless they felt it was truly their time to do so. Heck, we all need a temporary break now and then.

Eta: The primary reason I don't use PMs is that I know myself too well. My own history shows that I can easily engage with a person and get attached. My own history shows it has gone to inappropriate levels before. I am NOT saying that is what happened here. I am saying that I knew some self-regulation was in order, so I took steps to ensure it's a non-issue. Many posters have asked me why they can't send me PMs. There's nothing they can't send me on the open forum.

This is all JMO.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Rocket and I have decided that me moving away to be near my family is best for now. I need support and love to be the best mama I can be for our babies and to get healthy and whole. I am making arrangements to get things moving in that direction. This is incredibly hard. I keep thinking I am dead and this is my hell. 

My heart is severed. I am gutted. I feel like I can't even breathe. The pain is excruciating. Neither Rocket or I ever wanted our marriage to end. We have loved each other for so long. I am so terribly sorry that my bad decisions have led us to where we are. I love him and I always will. He says I'll always be his. This move will give him the space he needs as well though. I want him to find real peace and happiness because I love him so very much and want what's best for him and his life. I wish that was me, but at this time it is not.

Please, if you care for real people at all and have a heart, please pray for us. This is difficult for both of us. 

I would've done and still would do anything to make things right. Anything.

I'm so sorry. Baby, I'm so sorry. I love you.


----------



## EllaSuaveterre

@Sofa Sleeper

Ouch. I'm sorry to hear this.


----------



## blahfridge

I've been following both of your threads, but haven't posted before because there isn't anything I can add to the mostly good counsel you gave both been given. However, after Sofa's last post, I'm jumping in to ask with whom the children will be. Are they staying with you Rocket, or going with their mother? I hope you both use the time wisely and not as an excuse to drink and just hang out with friends. That seems to happen frequently. Good luck to you both.


----------



## Blondilocks

@drifting on, you're taking Affaircare's post personally. Please don't. It was never about you. It was about Sofa's boundaries. Your intentions and integrity were never an issue.


----------



## sokillme

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I would've done and still would do anything to make things right. Anything.


Many times making things right means moving on and a fresh start with someone who you can trust and hasn't betrayed you.

If he says he is done honor that. Be a good mother and maybe one day friend.


----------



## Openminded

Satya said:


> To @drifting on and anyone who has been following and involved the latest discussions, I just want to offer that I keep my PMs disabled for a reason and that reason is one @Affaircare has alluded to several times.
> 
> The PM feature is available, and it is a choice. The intentions in helping over PM are not in question (at least, I do not believe they are) but the actions seem to be. Given sofa's history, I honestly believe SHE should have disabled PMs and accepted advice where it could have been shared on the open forum and suggested, but it's not for me to say or decide what other people do. I can appreciate that some privacy can be preserved when taking things to PM, but I personally wouldn't share details requiring privacy in the first place.
> 
> I wouldn't want to see any valuable posters leaving unless they felt it was truly their time to do so. Heck, we all need a temporary break now and then.
> 
> Eta: The primary reason I don't use PMs is that I know myself too well. My own history shows that I can easily engage with a person and get attached. My own history shows it has gone to inappropriate levels before. I am NOT saying that is what happened here. I am saying that I knew some self-regulation was in order, so I took steps to ensure it's a non-issue. Many posters have asked me why they can't send me PMs. There's nothing they can't send me on the open forum.
> 
> This is all JMO.


I totally agree. I now ignore PMs from males but I didn't always. I stopped responding when one poster in particular made me uncomfortable. Not all EA's start out that way but if you don't have very strong boundaries it's easy to fall into one. IMO -- and the rule I now live by -- posters should stick to their own gender when giving advice in PMs. 

You may be offended, DO, but you're asking for trouble by advising women in troubled marriages through PMs. Maybe you've been lucky so far and maybe you always will be lucky but it's still a serious risk. And this isn't the first time I've felt that way -- it's just the first time I've said it.


----------



## Openminded

.


----------



## gr8ful1

This Christian will be praying for you Sofa (and Rocket as well). @Sofa - I sure hope you've told your parents the truth of everything, correcting what Rocket heard you tell them on the VAR.


----------



## farsidejunky

blahfridge said:


> I've been following both of your threads, but haven't posted before because there isn't anything I can add to the mostly good counsel you gave both been given. However, after Sofa's last post, I'm jumping in to ask with whom the children will be. Are they staying with you Rocket, or going with their mother? I hope you both use the time wisely and not as an excuse to drink and just hang out with friends. That seems to happen frequently. Good luck to you both.


This.


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## Sofa Sleeper

@Farside, 
I am signing just a 6 month lease. The kids will be going with me. My only person here to lean on is Rocket and that is not healthy for either of us right now. We still lean on each other for comfort and it's hard not to. We still deeply love and care about each other so this is exceptionally hard. 

I will be going to a great church and linking up with my female Christian friends that are positive influences on me and will help mentor me. My best friend, who is a gift from God to me and our children, will be heavily involved in our daily lives as well. My Mama and my oldest daughter live close too. My support system is committed to seeing me fully recovered and well and living a life of integrity. I'm going away to get well, not to party and certainly not to "mingle". I won't be drinking and living stupid. I am still committed to my husband. I will be faithful to him and not do anything to damage him or our marriage further. I promise that. I mean that with everything in me.

These 6 months will give time and space for both Rocket and I to find healing. Hurts like crazy still for both of us, but it's best for right now. 

My baby did not deserve this. The WORST consequence of ALL is him suffering for my mistakes. It is the most unfair thing ever and I am so so sorry. I hate what I've done. I would do anything to go back in time and make better choices. 

I accept things for what they are. You can all laugh at me or mock me, think I'm delusional, swing the 2X4's or whatever, but I'm still believing God for a miracle for us and for our family. I've released him and our marriage to God and have asked that God would somehow, someway, someday give him back to me. I'm trusting the process. 

I love you, Rocket. 

Time and space and distance couldn't keep us apart before.


----------



## Chuck71

What is the schedule for Skates seeing his children?


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## Sofa Sleeper

Chuck,
We have not established a set schedule, but just like now, he can see them whenever he wishes. This is all very new to us...as of just today. Too new for inquiries.

Please, respect our time right now as we grieve. This really hurts. I know people have questions, and some are just plain nosy, but it's too new right now to be bombarded with logistic questions. The pain we are all experiencing today is immense. A family of 8 is being ripped apart because of my sin. My husband is suffering. My children are suffering. I have never been more devastated in my entire life.


----------



## thedope

This couple appears ill suited for each other. Hopefully there is minimal pain on all sides.


----------



## Chuck71

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Chuck,
> We have not established a set schedule, but just like now, he can see them whenever he wishes. This is all very new to us...as of just today. Too new for inquiries.
> 
> Please, respect our time right now as we grieve. This really hurts. I know people have questions, and some are just plain nosy, but it's too new right now to be bombarded with logistic questions. The pain we are all experiencing today is immense. A family of 8 is being ripped apart because of my sin. My husband is suffering. My children are suffering. I have never been more devastated in my entire life.


I was asking Skates........... out of general concern.


----------



## oneMOreguy

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Chuck,
> We have not established a set schedule, but just like now, he can see them whenever he wishes. This is all very new to us...as of just today. Too new for inquiries.
> 
> Please, respect our time right now as we grieve. This really hurts. I know people have questions, and some are just plain nosy, but it's too new right now to be bombarded with logistic questions. The pain we are all experiencing today is immense. A family of 8 is being ripped apart because of my sin. My husband is suffering. My children are suffering. I have never been more devastated in my entire life.


I believe God is mostly concerned with our souls, but I will pray that he provides you both with the strength that this requires.

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk


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## Satya

I do wish both of you well. My belief is that time apart will only serve to increase the divide between you. Separation periods very rarely lead to reconciliation, IME. Rather, the opposite tends to be true. 

Provided you are both open to that possibility, I truly wish you both all the best.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Satka,
I don't want this. He doesn't want this. 

Nobody understands how much we love each other. 

This is not happening.....


----------



## thedope

I really don't want to sound like a jerk. But I feel most for the kids. They didn't do anything wrong. 

Neither spouse should be all that shocked that cheating occurred in their marraige given their history. The kids are the victims of it.


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## Satya

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Satka,
> I don't want this. He doesn't want this.
> 
> Nobody understands how much we love each other.
> 
> This is not happening.....


Sofa, I'd politely disagree and offer that many, many people here, know EXACTLY how much love you have for one another. They have felt the same with their own WS or even people they were dating and left. 

As I have said here many times, in many circumstances, you can love someone deeply and they can still be wrong for you.

All the best.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Thedope, in retrospect, that is true infidelity should not be a surprise. And yes, my children are what I hurt for most. Even my two stepsons, that I have raised since they were like six, plague me because they feel like my real children. 

Sofa, six months is a lease not a timetable. There is no timetable because a timetable offers of hope. This is a separation for the purpose of divorce. Everyone knows I love you and care for you, that did not stop in July.

But the law of sowing and reaping supersedes any laws concerning love. 

My plans are very simple. Get my finances pulled back together, get my Own place, grow and develop myself, and remain an attentive father to my little ones.


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## EllaSuaveterre

@Rocket Skates76 Oh. Oh wow. Oh gods, I feel so sorry for Sofa. This is really just... heartbreaking to witness. Like the end of La Traviata. Only, of course, more poignant because it's real.


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## thefam

EllaSuaveterre said:


> @Rocket Skates76 Oh. Oh wow. Oh gods, I feel so sorry for Sofa. This is really just... heartbreaking to witness. Like the end of La Traviata. Only, of course, more poignant because it's real.


This is indeed heartbreaking to watch. I don't read or post much in the infidelity section but infidelity has recently occurred in my immediate family and I have been trying to gain knowledge and understanding. I would like to help my family member and I thought of sending them here but after reading through this and other threads in this sub forum, I think it will not help at all.

Praying for both of you and for your family.


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## Rocket Skates76

This forum has been more help then anyone could possibly know. I owe so much too many who have consistently helped me chart a course, navigate this hell. 

Judging by your post it seems you feel reconciliation should always be the answer. If that is so, then yes, steer clear.

What to do becomes one of life's biggest decisions for the BS. While there is a definite MO, each case is different. 

Even if a couple is choosing to reconcile, they can both learn a tremendous amount here but on the other hand, if the BS has endured what they feel is too much, they will learn to respect themselves and defeat the patterns that yoked them in that situation to begin with. 

I shutter to think had I not been informed a few months ago, I would still be living a lost, depressed, confused life with a cheating wife.

The definition of "happy ending" is a very subjective statement.


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## thefam

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Judging by your post it seems you feel reconciliation should always be the answer. If that is so, then yes, steer clear.


No, I do not feel reconciliation is always the answer. But I do feel that the bad advice far outweighs the good to the detriment of both sides.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Rocket,

This is going to sound harsh, but just as you speak of your reality, I speak of mine.

There is so much hope, but sadly you will not allow yourself to see it. You will not even try or open your heart to it. You have refused marriage counseling since July and instead received and opened your heart and spirit to counsel from hurting betrayed people that you'll never meet in real life who also have no hope and have extreme hatred towards WS's and think the only option is divorce. Do these people REALLY care about YOU, your wife or your children? We are their daily form of reality TV entertainment. You have a wife that would move heaven and earth to make things right though...that would do ANYTHING to save our marriage and our family. Would you? Would you do anything? 

You have harbored unforgiveness towards yourself for 10 years. If you cannot forgive yourself, how can you forgive me? You are not open to receiving or accepting love and forgiveness from the Lord (you've said it yourself) for your own sin, so how could you offer that to me or anyone for that matter.

Yes, our children are hurting bad. I'm here with them holding them and reassuring them that we both love them and we will all be ok. I'm faking the biggest smile to make them feel safe and secure even though I don't even feel that myself and I'm literally dying inside. But where are you? At your parents drinking too much and texting me and saying you shouldn't be texting me because you are Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Where were you last night when our 8 year old daughter was having diarrhea from anxiety so bad that she was soiling her clothes over and over and not able to make it to the bathroom in time? Were you here with me comforting them after I broke the news to them? 
Remain an attentive father? You do not make sure to even text them back when they text you. You have only taken our baby boy ONE time to spend the night with you in the past 10 weeks. You say having all 4 of them is too much at once. You have a day off each week (sometimes 2 days off), but do you use that time off to come get your kids or to see them? No. They are not your priority now and we live 5 minutes away. Things will be better when we are 7 hours away?

I know my sins have caused the final marriage break, but there is always hope and this madness and bleeding could be stopped and healed. I'm willing. You are not. THAT is the current reality. We cannot change our past, but you and I together have the ability to change our future for ourselves, our marriage and our family. You will not look that direction though.

When you believe sowing and reaping trumps love....... 

Love never fails. 

It's not over. It doesn't have to be.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

On a side note, THIS...seeing your clear intentions in black and white has helped me more than you know today. I can begin to detach now. You have told me for months now not to abandon hope or when I have asked for MC you've said "it's too soon". You have led me to believe reconciliation was a possibility. In fact, you gave me your word even back in July. You didn't keep it.


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## ButtPunch

This is just my opinion.

I was able to reconcile my marriage.

However

I think you should follow your instinct and get the divorce.

Serial cheater.

Love Never Fails my ASS!

It failed the second she cheated.

Even now she sounds bitter.


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## Magnesium

Oh boy, after that Narcissistic vomit, I am hoping Rocket sticks to his guns and divorces. This is tragic for reasons that Sofa is *unwilling* to see.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Me cheating had nothing to do with my love for him and he knows that. 

You were able to reconcile your marriage so according to what you said, love "failed" you at some point to be in need of reconciliation, however love did not fail overall...you two are together. That is my point.


----------



## ButtPunch

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Me cheating had nothing to do with my love for him and he knows that.
> 
> You were able to reconcile your marriage so according to what you said, love "failed" you at some point to be in need of reconciliation, however love did not fail overall...you two are together. That is my point.


Don't get mad at me. 

I'm just one anonymous person's opinion.

Every story and situation is different.

I love to see a good reconciliation.

I honestly believe you don't have it in you.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Buttpunch (btw, that felt weird even just typing that lol),

I am far from mad at you. I am actually very happy you were able to save your marriage. I do have it in me. Everyone that knows me in real life knows I do. Even my husband knows I do. Still, he has made his choice. I respect that. I accept that. I will begin to detach intentionally now. I am looking towards our move and to healing and recovering from the most traumatic thing of my entire life. I can only pray that one day the pain will stop. One day I'll go an entire day without shedding a tear. One day I will be healed. 

Today, is the first day of the rest of my life.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Sofa,
This is indeed a reality show for me. Real because my exwife took me down the same road that you have taken Rocket down. So I have an intimate understanding of the situation. While I can see that you sincerely want to recover your marriage, I have doubts that you won't cheat again down the road when you get bored or put off. That has been your pattern. You respond emotionally to every situation and get sucked into the currents of passion. Even in your last post you said you have begun to "detach." An emotional response when you had promised steadfast resolve regardless of the outcome. You shift over and over again, like house built on sand. This is why Rocket doesn't feel safe. 

Rocket does love you, but I am guessing that he is not willing to suffer any more from your callous disregard for him. Betrayal in marriage is one of the most painful experiences a person can have. Infidelity absolutely shatters the heart and mind. And his have been shattered twice. In his mind you ran over him and then you looked in your rear view mirror and backed over him again for good measure. That is how what you did to him feels. You have not been on this end of things so you cannot fully comprehend. That is also probably why your "woe is me" posts have triggered a tsunami of derision from the TAM community.

Having said all that, if he decided to reconcile I would not judge him wrong either, so long as he put precautions in place that hold you fully accountable and transparent. This would include you giving up all social media, never engaging in opposite sex friendships, quitting the band and other activities where interactions with men are possible, and you being always available for checking in and always able to account for your time. That is a radical and controlling way of life, but such is the solution required for a serial cheater. Neither he nor you may be open to that, yet that is the narrow path for recovery.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Rick, everything you mentioned in the last paragraph, I've already done and continue to do. 

I am detaching because I have to. Detaching doesn't mean I stop loving him or I don't remain faithful to him, it means I start focusing on the move and me and my children's well being so that we can recover. Detaching means I accept he says it's over.


----------



## TaDor

Sofa Sleeper : When you made your own tread here, you didn't do well selling yourself. You had some interesting points and it didn't take long to figure out who you were talking about.

You are right - everyone here are strangers. We are all just dots on the screen. We offer help and support for others the best way – and always RECOMMEND that people talk to a professional. IC or MC or both.

Your sins are yours. Your reality and his reality are not going to be sync, it never is for anyone. Even now – with the help of reading and therapy – I learn my wife (okay, ex-wife as we are in reconciliation) had misinterpret my words and actions for years. Things I have been saying to her – which I thought were supportive – were actually hurting her. So I was clear on my meaning and now she see what I have been saying. I’m not giving details other than, it was another piece of accidental damage to our relationship. 
She needs to talk more, I need to listen more. Her reality was incorrect in some ways, as is mine.

If what you say about Skates76 is correct in your own posts – then yeah, he has some issues. But that is still NO excuse for your actions. And what you did, it was over many months. Sorry, but I don’t expose myself to co-workers or friends of any sex. You cross the line many many times, you liked it. Typical affair high.

But it was always within your power to NOT LIE to him about your actions. It was in your power to say NO, I will not suck off a band-member and give in to his orders. “waaaaa my wife doesn’t give me head, will you help a guy out?”. Sure, that is what friends are for – not. I think you got played by that band-member and you’re hooked. I could be wrong, I could be right. You’d be surprise the types of games men AND women play on each other to get what they want.

Even to this day, with good communications with my wife – we have things to work on with sexual communication. She thinks she is not good enough at giving BJ and I’m concerned about not getting hard fast enough for her to think I don’t appreciate or want it. I’m not a guy in his 20s anymore (she cheated on me with a 21yr old boy – at that age, a fart can make a guy hard) so it takes a bit to get the motor running.

Point is this? Why you had sex with your AP (Affair Partner) – Just oral or full blown intercourse – it doesn’t matter to other people. You broke a lot of trust and there is little reason to TRUST YOU that you only gave oral. Afterall, its very easy to do everything else. I’ve done many sexual things outside, in cars, back of trucks, on the hood, in a closet, behind a door, at work, public bathroom, etc to know that a lot can happen in 1~3 minutes for a quickie. We have heard it many times “It was just the tip, I don’t remember / liked it” is a joke.

Of course, its still possible you are telling the truth of your limited sexual adventures. But you broke the trust of your husband to know WHEN you are telling the truth. Would you hurt any less if he got just oral from another woman?

You are both cheaters. Your marriage was built on the destruction and pain your previous marriages. He is only less of a cheater than you are. And you posted your many reasons on what drove you to have sex with other men. At any point did you say to Skate76 “Hey, I am hurt by what you do – lets talk now or I am going to get my needs from Billy Bob.”? No. And as of now – you and your AP are cheaters to his SO (I don’t remember if he is married).

You said Skater76 plays games all day… yeah, a lot of people do. I play video games too. It’s the modern world… just as many people – especially women, have their faces in the phones doing FB and sending nude photos to other people who are NOT their SO. I reduced my game playing to 1-2 times a week vs daily, but that may vary. I don’t have FB on my phone.

Now, Skater76 – if SHE is correct about you not seeing the other children much and only taking your baby for one night in 10 weeks… and other things. Then dude, you too – have issues yourself. Drinking and playing games – depressed or not, is not cool. I get anxiety (actually my wife and I get anxiety) when we have a date night that lasting too long or an extra day without our baby. If you drink a lot – it kills your emotional bond with others… wife and kids.

If you have a drinking problem that has been going on for a long time – then you have been hurting others. If some of the things she has been saying is true, then you need to self-reflect.

How do you both make things right? I have no idea. We actually know so little… we don’t know you in person. My / our friends who have supported my relationship with my wife – have talked in person – even with my wife at my side to discuss our issues for advice. From an outside perspective – they have been valuable in a different way than our MC.

If you want to do R or give it a chance – then you need to think about what she has to do to prove herself worthy. I have no idea on what that would be. But let me say this – My wife and I are a stronger couple today than before her affair. We have *ISSUES*, typical man / woman issues. But we try to help each other, work as a team. 

If she want to help you NOT drink and be more involved with the kids – and you want that too, then perhaps it’s something to look into. If she wants to fight for the marriage, well – that’s something that MOST cheating women do not do. They usually leave the marriage.

Sofa, its up to Skater76 what he wants to do… as do you. Its takes two to make it work. He has to forgive you, but you need work on yourself. Your truth is not worth much to him or most people here. Not even to me. What are you willing to sacrifice to prove your future loyalty to him?

Zero contact with the young man. Never ever see him or talk to him again would be a start. Then MC… At least 4~6 months worth, weekly. You both have to be honest with each other. And see if things can be repaired. My wife admitted a lot of things – truth in those meetings. “yeah, it was more than just a BJ after all” type stuff.

I am at 16months into R with my wife. I still take a pill sometimes to help me get to sleep. I still *HURT* over the lies and such. The sex doesn’t bother me so much – it’s the lying, the bullcrap, things behind my back – NOT talking to me about our problems (and me not listening as well as I should). 

We are just now starting to talk with our MC about US – rather than the affair crap. I mean, yeah – we also talked about us too. But on a different level of wanting improvements rather than patching up from the past.

I still love my wife, I still want to marry her, but reality is… I don’t know the future. It looks pretty damn good at the moment. So I’ll take one day at a time.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Sofa Sleeper said:


> On a side note, THIS...seeing your clear intentions in black and white has helped me more than you know today. I can begin to detach now. You have told me for months now not to abandon hope or when I have asked for MC you've said "it's too soon". You have led me to believe reconciliation was a possibility. In fact, you gave me your word even back in July. You didn't keep it.


I feel for you here. He should not be telling you to have hope if he knew there was none. If he knows his choice is divorce then be clear with you and don't be giving false hope and maybes and stringing you along. 
You need all the information no matter how much it hurts.


----------



## farsidejunky

Sofa:

Let it go. Let the marriage go. Focus on the kids. Let God do the work in your life needs to be done. Let your therapist guide you.

Process, not destination.

Rocket:

It is time to get out of the victim chair. 

That you became a victim is not your fault. That you choose to remain one...IS your fault. 

Reread the Lynne Forrest article I sent you. If you don't learn to embrace the pain, you will remain in the chair as you see to avoid it.

Can you honestly say the man you see in the mirror, staring back at you, is one of which you are proud?

I doubt it. 

Pull yourself together. Your kids need you engaged. YOU need you engaged. 

Both of you need to grow up...quick, fast, and in a hurry. Your kids are too precious.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Tador,

You win the internet today. Fair and balanced response. 

In Rocket's defense, he is not generally a heavy drinker, but he has been before (during first divorce). 

Why did you choose reconciliation?


----------



## TaDor

We all have our faults. You and Rocket have valid points and ommisions. You want to try, then you still need to give him space but also talk to him a bit when he wants too. You've not earned his trust at this point and you shouldn't expect him to at this point. The way he is with the kids, is that always or recently?

Why reconcile? 
Love is a *****. I was already sticking my foot back into dating and sex with others... I was enjoying new freedom that comes with it. But, I missed and love my wife. We are both a bit strange that works for us.
Because she asked. I met with her, we talked. We both want to do things as a couple, we both want to raise our son together. I don't want another man or woman involved with our son's upbringing and neither does she.

Does she have my full trust? Hell no. She knows it. But honestly, all things considered at this moment - we're doing pretty good.

We're going to do another 2~3 MC sessions. We've only done 4 recently - after 6 months of no MC. So in general, we're looking at doing 1-2 MC sessions every 6 months, or longer - up to a year. TO help keep us on track of issues we maybe missing. Either of us can call out "I feel we can use an MC session". - But we talk a lot more about what is bothering us, our feelings.

Oh, and good sex 

But also, love.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Tador,

Thanks. It's very difficult for me to grasp that he unwilling to even TRY before throwing in the towel especially when he has a wife that WANTS to get help and save the marriage. This is a 10 year marriage with 4 kids we have made and 2 he has helped me raise and two people that still really truly love each other madly. He speaks of objectivity, but he won't even look at what reconciliation could be and could mean for our precious family and our marriage. He only looks in the direction of divorce. Seems that he should weigh BOTH options and explore both options fully before saying it's over. Not my call though. 

And well...we do have great sex. As in...just 2 nights ago in his bed for 2 hours when HE asked me to come to bed with him.  We are magical together. And while in bed with him told me he loved me twice, that I would always be "his", that I am still his wife, that he was certainly going to try to forgive me and that he is still mine. ANY one would be confused after all that. 

I've gotta get off the roller coaster. God will have to be my strength because right now I have none. He will have to be my light because I am in the darkest moments of my life. He will need to be my peace because my heart and soul are crushed. I trust Him to carry me through this because right now I'm barely even standing. 

Farside, I am letting go. I have to. I cannot keep living in a state of limbo or purgatory or even a state of perpetual punishment for my sins.


----------



## ButtPunch

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Tador,
> 
> Farside, I am letting go. I have to. I cannot keep living in a state of perpetual punishment for my sins.



My wife and I were living apart seven months before I gave reconciliation a try.

All that was left for the divorce was for her to sign the damn papers.

Then she dealt with my anger for another 6 months.

She had 3 months of daily 8 hour a day therapy during that time apart.

If you want to reconcile, it will take like 3 to 5 years before he's close to normal.

Even then he will never forget or fully trust you again.

And here you are with so little time passed complaining about perpetual punishment.

Rocket has just begun the roller coaster ride for the stages of grief.


----------



## Magnesium

ButtPunch said:


> My wife and I were living apart seven months before I gave reconciliation a try.
> 
> All that was left for the divorce was for her to sign the damn papers.
> 
> Then she dealt with my anger for another 6 months.
> 
> She had 3 months of daily 8 hour a day therapy during that time apart.
> 
> If you want to reconcile, it will take like 3 to 5 years before he's close to normal.
> 
> Even then he will never forget or fully trust you again.
> 
> *And here you are with so little time passed complaining about perpetual punishment.
> *
> Rocket has just begun the roller coaster ride for the stages of grief.


Yep....such gross manipulation and self-absorbedness. It's disgusting. And she goes and changes her profile picture. "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME." Shameful...

I swear, everything she has said and done is TEXTBOOK narcissism. She cannot help herself.

RUN ROCKET, RUN!


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

ButtPunch

The perpetual punishment is me punishing myself. "I am scum", "I don't deserve love", etc. 

I never said the road of reconciliation was an easy road. I only said I was more than willing to walk that road with him and to endure all of the stages of it to save our marriage and our family. I applaud you for your courage to take your wife's hand and walk it out together. She is so lucky.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Magnesium, my profile picture was one of a representation of Rocket..and me hanging on. I changed it because the road now is about me without him. Not to say look at me. That is me and not a picture of someone I am not. Also, I don't even care who knows who the real sofa is. There ya have it. It's me. Unveiled. I am human. I am flawed. I am authentic. I am doing my best to become whole.

Btw, if I was so narcissistic, I wouldn't have loved him the way I did for 10 years. I wouldn't have been perfectly content and even happy to sit in a home with 7 kids without a car for years. Narcissism is a word people throw around here a lot. You have to look at a person as a whole to make that claim though which you will never be able to do on a message board. Many have been accurate with calling me out on things on TAM, but that claim there is really not accurate at all and actually hurts. I'll defend myself where necessary. Aside from my selfish actions of cheating which were only for a time and not for the whole marriage, I have been selfless and gladly sacrificed things because I loved him and our family so much.


----------



## ButtPunch

Holy Christ!

I just saw the profile pic.

The Hot to Crazy index clearly states No strippers, red heads, or anyone named Tiffany.

Sorry....brief moment for some humor.


----------



## ltsandwich

ButtPunch said:


> Holy Christ!
> 
> I just saw the profile pic.
> 
> The Hot to Crazy index clearly states No strippers, red heads, or anyone named Tiffany.
> 
> Sorry....brief moment for some humor.


Dude. I spit soda onto my keyboard. Thanks a lot! :rofl::rofl::toast:


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

If he's decided on divorce there should be no sex, no giving out hope, no I love yous and maybes. 

That's not productive for either of them and as much as she needs help for her issues, him telling her to hold out hope and sleeping with her isn't doing any good when he's made up his mind to divorce. 

Clean break. Stop the maybes. Stop the giving hope.


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If he's decided on divorce there should be no sex, no giving out hope, no I love yous and maybes.
> 
> That's not productive for either of them and as much as she needs help for her issues, him telling her to hold out hope and sleeping with her isn't doing any good when he's made up his mind to divorce.
> 
> Clean break. Stop the maybes. Stop the giving hope.


Life isn't so black and white.

I'm sure his head is spinning and his decision to divorce is like 60-40.

I am certain part of him wants to reconcile.

I am also certain part of him wants a divorce.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ButtPunch said:


> Life isn't so black and white.
> 
> I'm sure his head is spinning and his decision to divorce is like 60-40.
> 
> I am certain part of him wants to reconcile.
> 
> I am also certain part of him wants a divorce.


That's fair. He had said his choice was divorce. Firmly. 

He needs to clean break from her as hints of hope will keep her hanging on and in the frantic spiral she is in and keep him in the murky, not sure space. 

Removing himself from her life and the chaos will help both of them move past this and move forward. 

But you don't have sex with someone one day and say you already decided on divorce the next. It's not a healthy situation for either of these two and they both need to cut it off and focus on themselves.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If he's decided on divorce there should be no sex, no giving out hope, no I love yous and maybes.
> 
> That's not productive for either of them and as much as she needs help for her issues, him telling her to hold out hope and sleeping with her isn't doing any good when he's made up his mind to divorce.
> 
> Clean break. Stop the maybes. Stop the giving hope.


Thank you. Can you see why I've been so confused all along? And this has happened at least once a week for the past 10 weeks. When I said "husband isn't telling all" I meant just that. He still doesn't tell all. If he did, he would be on the receiving end of the 2x4's and he knows it. I am expected to be completely transparent on here and bare all, but not him. There's still so much going on here that nobody knows too. Blah. He has never told all. That's ok though. Perception is everything.


----------



## farsidejunky

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> That's fair. He had said his choice was divorce. Firmly.
> 
> He needs to clean break from her as hints of hope will keep her hanging on and in the frantic spiral she is in and keep him in the murky, not sure space.
> 
> Removing himself from her life and the chaos will help both of them move past this and move forward.
> 
> But you don't have sex with someone one day and say you already decided on divorce the next. It's not a healthy situation for either of these two and they both need to cut it off and focus on themselves.


QFT.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Thank you. Can you see why I've been so confused all along? And this has happened at least once a week for the past 10 weeks. When I said "husband isn't telling all" I meant just that. He still doesn't tell all. If he did, he would be on the receiving end of the 2x4's and he knows it. I am expected to be completely transparent on here and bare all, but not him. There's still so much going on here that nobody knows too. Blah. He has never told all. That's ok though. Perception is everything.


Then shift your focus now on moving on for yourself, getting healthy and finding yourself. 

I don't think it's fair to give hope when there is none. I don't think it's fair to sleep with someone and say you love them when you've decided to divorce. 

He does have his own issues that he now needs to work on as do you. Both of you will be able to do that better without the back and forth going on


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Slowly Going Crazy, 

Can I have your screen name? It fits. 

Seriously though, that is the plan. I can't keep doing this. That is why I have to move. Seeing him and him seeing me makes us just want to run into each other's arms because we do still love each other. I cannot keep doing this though. I'm slowly going crazy.


----------



## Satya

Sofa Sleeper said:


> On a side note, THIS...seeing your clear intentions in black and white has helped me more than you know today. I can begin to detach now. You have told me for months now not to abandon hope or when I have asked for MC you've said "it's too soon". You have led me to believe reconciliation was a possibility. In fact, you gave me your word even back in July. You didn't keep it.


Sofa, I just want to offer a thought in response. Only rocket can speak for himself, but when my ex husband and I were facing the inevitability of divorce, he kept asking me if there was any hope of us maintaining a relationship even after the divorce was final. Even if it was just friendship or a mutual check-in every now and then.

Honestly, my head was spinning so much at that time and I was so distraught by the possible finality of things, that I think I said "sure" or gave him some hope that we could. Honestly, when you're processing things, your mind is not made up at all. You're not sure and with that uncertainty comes hesitation to make a promise, or sometimes a promise is made in haste. Or even, it's made with good intentions but you're still processing through the mental muck.

Your feelings are your feelings and I'm not going to say they aren't valid. But I can understand why rocket may have said some reassuring things that he has now possibly reconsidered. You're both processing and have been processing things in your own ways, from your own viewpoints.

Eta: my phone wasn't loading the latest posts. You guys should not be having sex. It sends the wrong message. Yes, it would confuse the hell out of me, too.


----------



## Magnesium

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Magnesium, my profile picture was one of a representation of Rocket..and me hanging on. I changed it because the road now is about me without him. Not to say look at me. That is me and not a picture of someone I am not. Also, I don't even care who knows who the real sofa is. There ya have it. It's me. Unveiled. I am human. I am flawed. I am authentic. I am doing my best to become whole.
> 
> Btw, if I was so narcissistic, I wouldn't have loved him the way I did for 10 years. I wouldn't have been perfectly content and even happy to sit in a home with 7 kids without a car for years. Narcissism is a word people throw around here a lot. You have to look at a person as a whole to make that claim though which you will never be able to do on a message board. Many have been accurate with calling me out on things on TAM, but that claim there is really not accurate at all and actually hurts. I'll defend myself where necessary. Aside from my selfish actions of cheating which were only for a time and not for the whole marriage, I have been selfless and gladly sacrificed things because I loved him and our family so much.


And this response is also textbook. I have, unfortunately, too much knowledge and experience of real Narcissism...what Narcissism looks and sounds like and how it lives. I wouldn't expect a Narc to ever admit they are one or even to have the ability for introspection it would be require to identify themselves as one. But I can spot a real one a mile away ...

Carry on ...


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Slowly Going Crazy,
> 
> Can I have your screen name? It fits.
> 
> Seriously though, that is the plan. I can't keep doing this. That is why I have to move. Seeing him and him seeing me makes us just want to run into each other's arms because we do still love each other. I cannot keep doing this though. I'm slowly going crazy.


Me and my ex were toxic together. There was damage done by both. Too much to ever really get over and move past. It was slowly making me crazy. I'm in a much better situation now after I left and focused on me. 
I did wrong in the past, so did he. We both tried to forgive and move forward. We both wanted it to work. Together we just couldn't work. Apart we are both now thriving as are the children.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Satya, valid point indeed. But some of the things he told me were just two nights ago and he was sincere. It all just hurts so bad. 

Oh my God. My best friend is calling me and texting me and telling me it's still not over and to trust God. Right now, to be honest, the pain has me wanting to leave the state today. If I could, I would. Yes, it's been my pattern to run when I'm hurting, I admit it and right now I wanna run away from the pain so bad. Please somebody tell me one day I'll be ok. Tell me one day there will be a day when I don't cry a single tear or 50 gallon drums of them. Right now I am crumbling and hurting and scared to death and trying to regain balance telling myself to breathe. Ughhhhhhhhh!! As in the words of Rocket in a text to me last night, "Gawwwdddd this is shi**y"


----------



## ButtPunch

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Thank you. Can you see why I've been so confused all along? And this has happened at least once a week for the past 10 weeks. When I said "husband isn't telling all" I meant just that. He still doesn't tell all. If he did, he would be on the receiving end of the 2x4's and he knows it. I am expected to be completely transparent on here and bare all, but not him. There's still so much going on here that nobody knows too. Blah. He has never told all. That's ok though. Perception is everything.


I promise you he is as hurt and confused as you are.

Emotionally he still loves you.

Logically he wants a divorce.

He should be following the 180 and detaching.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

And so should I.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

I am refusing to defend myself because I told myself I would not turn this thread into the Jerry Springer show. 

Sofa, i'm glad you are feeling the disconnect because now you're back to baseless accusations and I'm getting a glimpse of the real vindictive you again apparently. 

Feel free to carry-on that is fine and paint 
me however you feel necessary.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Sofa Sleeper said:


> And so should I.


Yes, do. For everyone's sake it is the best thing to detach and both work on yourselves separately. 

I know you have gotten a hard time here and I am not making any statements on the cheating or the behaviors or either of you but for now the most healthy route is to care for yourself and focus on your life and making it healthy and happy.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Rocket, I am choosing to reply to your comment via text. God forbid you are painted in a way you don't like.


----------



## Openminded

Sofa, just because you love each other does not mean you can be together. Love is the easy part. The rest is extremely hard and not everyone can get over the betrayal. Rocket -- today -- doesn't think he can. Respect that.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Open minded, 

we all get angry and today I am. I respect how he feels "today" too.

I wish he would understand what lengths I would go to to regain and rebuild his trust and to help him feel secure with me forever. I have learned QUITE the lesson and would never do this again. I would NEVER hurt him again. I told him he was my first love and he will be my last. I will prove that to him if it takes the rest of my life. I only want him. I will always be "his" just like he says. I will see to it. I mean it. He can divorce me and I will still be only his. That's not something I'm just saying either....I mean it and I will prove it to him. 

Ok I gotta go eat something and take shower. The crying has me feeling like I'm gonna faint. I need to take care of myself like Ella says. 

For what it's worth, PM's are turned off for me now. I didn't realize that was an option, but after I saw it mentioned, I found how to do it. For the sake of transparency, DriftingOn has emailed me a few times but Rocket has full access to those emails. I have a great friend from a city we once lived in that has been a former WS (we never knew this) and they survived it. She is a Godly woman and is mentoring me now. Everyone can chill on that now lol


----------



## TaDor

Sofa Sleeper : From D-Day to us actually trying for a real R, was about 6 months. 7~8 weeks after I threw her out of the home. There was a lot of drama, she even got arrested for assault. Being away from her – I was detaching by the day. But either way, I’m glad she opened up to try again and I was able to allow it. Where we are a year from now is unknown but its looking pretty good.

What you have responded to me and others just now, shows why you are the primary problem. You cheated, and it was ALWAYS on you to not put yourself in that position and to save your marriage. But you publicly tell God to get you out of your mess. That’s not happening, its ALL on you. Not Rocket, not some therapist.

It’s you who has chosen to do this. You broke your home over cheap thrills. You **YOU** harmed your children for breaking up the family. Over a few BJs at best? It was worth it? Hmmm, another reason why I choose R – is because sex is sex. Dating and having sex with others didn’t and wouldn’t replace my family or wife.

You don’t know Rocket’s pain. Just as you don’t know or care about your 1st husbands pain. You are crying that Rocket isn’t giving you a chance? What chance did you give the first husband you cheated on?

Rocket made a mistake even meeting you for a hook up. Maybe that drove him to drink the first time? Maybe he felt some actual shame for his actions? Here is the thing, I doubt you would ever be faithful to Rocket or anyone else. Look at your own track-record, honestly. And you know it more than anyone else.
Rocket cheated at least 1 time. (Not the amount of sex/sexting but the number of people)
Sofa cheated at least 4~5 times. Every guy you gave oral or hand jobs or send nude photos to, when you are in a relationship with someone else COUNTS. If you sent 5 additional guys nude of you BEFORE you broke up Rocket’s marriage – then each of them counts. You know what your actual cheat number is.

So the only option that Rocket has to remain married to you, is to have a semi-open marriage in which he gets some on the side and you get yours on the side here and there. Because your four kids together and your church wasn’t enough to keep faithful to your marriage, so how can you or anyone else think you will change tomorrow? Open marriage is your last hope, or your next relationship rather than lie. I told this to another guy who is supposed to marry his AP, as she cheated on him with 3 different men over the course of 4 weeks. Yeah, she too publicly admits she has done wrong to him… and he has been faithful to her, but is still working things out in his head. I said “She will never stop wanting other penis to prove her worth and sexual thrill.”

One of my long time friends (and we had some sex in the distant past) was a cheater. Got divorced at age 22 and ONLY does open relationships. She knows what she can and cannot do, and I respect her for that.

Your pain and confusion over this situation is a fraction of the men you have hurt and the children you have and will continue to hurt. You talked about sacrifices of carrying for children. There is a thing called birth control.

The only two clear option are divorce or open relationship – because your track record shows no ability to be faithful. Yeah, you both are emotional and confused. He needs space away from you to figure out of you are worth it… I also think your actions are also a reflection of your abilities to parent. Stop putting your problems as someone else’s and especially don’t put it in God’s hands – IMHO, that’s is asking for a get out of jail card.

So yeah, get therapy. Detach. Become the best person you can be for the kids. And hopefully Rocket can get healed quickly and will meet another woman in the future that won’t cheat on him as he knows what its like to be on the other end. As any good future relationship he will have - *WILL* require him to be honest about his past sins and how he is today.

You are right – we don’t know or will ever know all the details. That is between you guys and a possible therapist. I do recommend you both meet with a therapist later to improve communication and co-parenting skills at least.


----------



## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Rocket,
> 
> This is going to sound harsh, but just as you speak of your reality, I speak of mine.
> 
> There is so much hope, but sadly you will not allow yourself to see it. You will not even try or open your heart to it. You have refused marriage counseling since July and instead received and opened your heart and spirit to counsel from hurting betrayed people that you'll never meet in real life who also have no hope and have extreme hatred towards WS's and think the only option is divorce. Do these people REALLY care about YOU, your wife or your children? We are their daily form of reality TV entertainment.


Wow. How quickly you turned. Here I was, this.close to believing you'd actually hit your rock bottom, found God, finally GOT IT...and then you send this.

You are still a manipulator. Probably a self-centered one, at that. I have no idea, but the levels to which you are taking this are NOT doing you any favors. 

fwiw, my H has never cheated on me. I've never cheated on him. I'm not hurting and betrayed. I have lots of hope. And my two favorite women in the world were FORMER CHEATERS, so no, no hatred for WSs. 

At least, not if they actually DO find humility and don't just pretend, to get what they want.


----------



## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Me cheating had nothing to do with my love for him


:rofl:

Tell me, Sofa...what IS your definition of love?


----------



## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Buttpunch (btw, that felt weird even just typing that lol),
> 
> I am far from mad at you. I am actually very happy you were able to save your marriage. I do have it in me. Everyone that knows me in real life knows I do. Even my husband knows I do. Still, he has made his choice. I respect that. I accept that. I will begin to detach intentionally now. I am looking towards our move and to healing and recovering from the most traumatic thing of my entire life. I can only pray that one day the pain will stop. One day I'll go an entire day without shedding a tear. One day I will be healed.
> 
> Today, is the first day of the rest of my life.


An entire post without commenting on the most traumatic thing of HIS entire life. Only about how YOU are suffering. From your own actions. Not to mention chewing him out for 'lying' to you about reconciling, in the previous post.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

I am beyond spent today from the drama, but I will say that 2 of our 4 children were conceived on birth control. No I didn't miss pills either. I even conceived with an IUD. Not that it matters but I conceived one of my 1st babies from my 1st marriage with Depo Provera. I'm just a fertile one or God meant for me to have 7 kids. People can say all kinds of things but don't know the whole story. I get it. It's easy to think you know somebody on here and think you can predict their future moves or actions or whatever, but reality is you really can't. Another thing, when my first husband and I divorced, we were ready to divorce. No love. No friendship. Nothing. It was clearly not the same as this. We both wanted out and had wanted out for years because we pretty much hated each other. We had to keep up the image of a perfect life though because of my family's ministry. That marriage was a joke from day one. I married him because I was pregnant, my dad was a well known preacher and we had to do the right thing and marry. Multiple big problems the whole marriage. And no I am not going there with details. All I'm saying is THIS is not the same. At all. 

And to ease your mind, the there are not endless counts of infidelity like you all would love to snicker and assume. 

I can take the heat though because I know the truth. It's ok. I screwed up, yes I did. It IS all my fault. You are absolutely correct there. I do also know that even though I am capable of screwing up, I KNOW I never will again. This experience has been the worst of our lives. I would never ever do that to us again. And I will prove that to Rocket even divorced that I'm still his. He is the one I love. He is the one I want. 

He can even go and be free with whoever and I'll wait for him. I mean it. My love and commitment to him is real. I am staying in therapy too to help keep me on track.

And an open marriage is not happening with us.


----------



## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> It's easy to think you know somebody on here and think you can predict their future moves or actions or whatever, but reality is you really can't.


Ah, but you'd be surprised. If you research, you'd discover that there is what's called a 'script.' We call it that (and so do all the OTHER forums about infidelity) because it's true. Cheaters follow VERY predictable patterns because of basic psychology we all share, thought processes we all go through when this or that happens. I can explain it more if you want. In the 15-20 years I've been giving advice on forums, the thousands of marriages I've given advice on, I can name about 5 that did NOT follow the script. And there's a script for the cheater and one for the betrayed. Rocket is following the typical bewildered, indecisive BS's script. In fact, he's sent you packing far earlier than most betrayed husbands, who wring their hands and try to hang on. And here you are, following the cheater's script to a T, you've tried the sweet part, you've tried the crying part, you've tried the God part, and here you are back to the blameshifting and indignant part of the script.

Nothing new here. We all predicted it. Not because we hate you or want to see you suffer. But because you are following the script. As nearly every single cheating wife does.

In fact, in all my time, aside from the two women I mentioned before, I can name only one other woman who didn't try. She let her husband move her into an apartment, while he kept the kids, and she lived there, in penance, for a YEAR, at which point she came to him and asked him if he'd be willing to go have lunch with her. She actually DID what you keep saying you're going to do - take your lumps - and because of that, it softened his heart and he met with her and had lunch. Last I heard, they were going to try again. But only because she had the humility and guilt and grace to shut up and to stay away from him as he wished.

Think about it.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Turnera, 
I have hit rock bottom and my life is turning around. Much has happened the past two days that has me hurting and angry. One of which Rocket doesn't tell all and therefore I am labeled as something I am not and viewed as something and someone I am not. 

His pain is what hurts me THE most. I am remorseful and destroyed because of what I've caused him and what this is costing him. I wouldn't be being real and honest though if I couldn't say, TODAY...today I am angry. Not that we are divorcing even. That he doesn't tell all and I'm expected to. He doesn't want a certain picture painted of himself, but does he step in and stop you all from painting an inaccurate one of me based upon limited info? That's what has me upset. Not that I'm not getting what I want. I'm upset that two days ago he said very sincere things to me while I was in his arms and I was sobbing on his chest. Then the next day he posts HERE publicly that a divorce still stands. He never mentioned anything from the night before though. Limited info that muddies the full truth. Omission. Would him being honest make him appear weak? 

Everyone wants truth. I give it and still get slammed. I get it. He can do no wrong. There is still so much more than even all of this too. I would be lying if I said it isn't frustrating and confusing and exasperating to say the least. 

I still am seeking God for my strength to get through this and for complete healing. I'm still destroyed beyond reason for my sins and what this has cost our family. I still fall on my face before God daily and ask for His mercy on our lives. None of that has changed. I think I have a right to be honest on days that are hard though. I am still human. Moving two states away and making those preparations is daunting in itself. I'm under stress and I'm exhausted. I'm scared and I'm broken hearted. At least I'm honest though. 

Rocket's pain is something I see in person and it is gut wrenching. Just two nights ago while we were talking on th the couch, he turned his head to the side and placed his hand over his face and said tearfully "I loved you". Believe me, I see firsthand that pain all the time and it's hard to witness. It kills me. I want to comfort him and take all of that pain I caused away and I can't. He is lonely and he is hurting so much and I feel helpless. I would do anything to take that from him. Sounds stupid but my mama instinct wants to rock him like a baby even. It's so hard knowing he's hurting. The emptiness in his eyes is scary to look at. There is no sparkle in his eyes anymore. He is hollowed out and I did it. I hate it more than anything. I want to help love him back to health and help him feel secure. The only way I can now do that is to let him go even though it goes against every fiber of my being to do so. 

Please understand today is but just a moment in my recovery. Today I hurt. Today I am angry. But I'm real.

ETA: I would gladly stay in an apartment alone for a year and pay penance. I mean what I say when I say I would do anything. Those are not just words. I really mean it. I would do anything! If I saw Rocket right now, I'd fall down and apologize for my anger today. I'm not perfect nor do I pretend to be. I am terribly flawed and trying to make sense of the mess I have caused. I'm down today, but not out. My will to get up and keep growing is still there. I just took a hard hit today. My 6 year old is weeping now and this is all just so much to bear. I am so sorry I've done this to our sweet family. I'm such a fool. I never wanted to hurt our family. I really didn't. I never wanted to stray and lose my husband's trust. I didn't set out to fail. Things happened. I let them happen and I did fail. I'm human and I made terrible mistakes that are now costing us all. It's very hard to live with and to find any joy in life. That is why I need God's help so much. That is why I have to turn to Him in this. I can't do this alone.


----------



## Rick Blaine

It's never a good idea for two people having marital problems posting on the same thread. It spirals out of control and becomes a freak show. Sofa should not have come on her husband's thread after her thread was closed down by the moderator. Concurrent with jumping on the thread she changes her avatar to a pretty picture of--I presume--herself. I wrote earlier that she wouldn't recognize a boundary if she ran into a wall, and these are just two more recent examples.

At this point, with the drama now boiling over, it almost seems like this thread is a hoax. (Sorry, Rocket.)


----------



## ButtPunch

If you love him, then let go.

Let him process his feelings.

Try not to shove a reconciliation down his throat.

Give him space.

Do not sleep with him anymore.

Have you told your family yet that you cheated on Rocket?

Your kids need the age appropriate truth as well.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Buttpunch,
Yes I have. They all know. Even all 7 of my children. I let them know Daddy moved out because mommy did something very wrong that broke Daddy's heart. I apologized to them for causing their Daddy to move out. I told them Daddy had done nothing wrong and didn't deserve this. My family all knows and I have taken full blame for this. 

I am letting go. It's all I can do to help him heal and to find peace of my own as well. 

I will always have hope though. I will always love him.


----------



## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Turnera,
> I have hit rock bottom and my life is turning around. Much has happened the past two days that has me hurting and angry. One of which Rocket doesn't tell all and therefore I am labeled as something I am not and viewed as something and someone I am not.


You are a serial cheater, Sofa. You are. 

You are trying to manipulate him AND us to get what you want.

No matter what Rocket has or has not done, YOU cheated on him, and then YOU came HERE to (1) make yourself look better (narcissist?) and (2) get what you want - him back.

There is no miscommunication on those two points.

You can SAY all you want that you hit rock bottom, that you found God, that you'll do anything Rocket needs because you're so sincere, but the only times you talk about HIM and how HE is feeling is directly right after one of us calls you out on it.

That is manipulation.

That's all we need to see to know the truth. I even tried to give you an example of what a woman who was truly contrite would look like and your only response was to continue to talk about how he's not so saintly and you're getting bum rap; you were SO set on fixing your reputation. And blaming him. And painting him black. 

There's an old saying that applies to cheating: watch what they DO, not what they SAY. 

We're watching what you're doing, and it isn't pretty. Nor convincing.


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## Sofa Sleeper

That's fair, but it's not what's in my heart. It's really not. I feel like I have to defend myself here. Mainly because of posts like that that really are not true. I would actually love to FaceTime someone like you to let you see me in person and really see my heart and not just read what I type. See me for me. 

Rocket has said himself that when he is around me I am gutted. It's because I am. I am remorseful and feel horrible for what this is costing my husband and my babies. My typed words are so often misconstrued. My motives are twisted. My intentions misread. 

I am not a script. It's so sad that every wayward is assumed to be the same. I am not the same as all the others. I too have read a lot about wayward spouses and more often than not, the BS is the one fighting for the marriage and the WS is resistant. 

You guys are encouraging him to walk away and deep down he doesn't even really want to. He thinks he has to. He has seen my remorse and seen me devastated by what I've done to us. He knows I am repentant. 

I have no ill will against any of you, truly. I wish those who have sent Pm's saying you would give someone like me a chance because of my remorse, or you believe our marriage can be saved, or things being posted by others are Biblically off base, or that people here just want to see me punished, etc would be bold enough to post that stuff publicly. You know why they don't or can't? Because they would be bullied too. And for what? For showing support for me? For speaking their truth? Only divorce posts and encouragement of ending a marriage is popular here. Even when a WS is trying to do everything right in her life to be worthy of a chance, it's never enough. 

I'm sorry I upset you all. I am. I mean that. I'm not an argumentative girl. I'm not a narcissist. I'm not vile or evil or all of the other things I've been called. I have friends and family that know me and love me and know who I am and what's in my heart. Someone just yesterday told me I was one of the sweetest people they've ever known and they hate to see me suffering like this and being misinterpreted the way I am. I guess that's really all that matters. Those in real life. 

This i know. I am loved. My life isn't over even though right now it hurts and looks bleak. I am moving and me and my children will be surrounded by so much love and support. I will be ok in time. I will follow God. I will be a woman of integrity and honor and I will never make those same choices again.


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## ltsandwich

Sofa Sleeper said:


> That's fair, but it's not what's in my heart. It's really not. I feel like I have to defend myself here. Mainly because of posts like that that really are not true. I would actually love to FaceTime someone like you to let you see me in person and really see my heart and not just read what I type. See me for me.
> 
> Rocket has said himself that when he is around me I am gutted. It's because I am. I am remorseful and feel horrible for what this is costing my husband and my babies. My typed words are so often misconstrued. My motives are twisted. My intentions misread.
> 
> I am not a script. It's so sad that every wayward is assumed to be the same. I am not the same as all the others. I too have read a lot about wayward spouses and more often than not, the BS is the one fighting for the marriage and the WS is resistant.
> 
> You guys are encouraging him to walk away and deep down he doesn't even really want to. He thinks he has to. He has seen my remorse and seen me devastated by what I've done to us. He knows I am repentant.
> 
> I have no ill will against any of you, truly. I wish those who have sent Pm's saying you would give someone like me a chance because of my remorse, or you believe our marriage can be saved, or things being posted by others are Biblically off base, or that people here just want to see me punished, etc would be bold enough to post that stuff publicly. You know why they don't or can't? Because they would be bullied too. And for what? For showing support for me? For speaking their truth? Only divorce posts and encouragement of ending a marriage is popular here. Even when a WS is trying to do everything right in her life to be worthy of a chance, it's never enough.
> 
> I'm sorry I upset you all. I am. I mean that. I'm not an argumentative girl. I'm not a narcissist. I'm not vile or evil or all of the other things I've been called. I have friends and family that know me and love me and know who I am and what's in my heart. Someone just yesterday told me I was one of the sweetest people they've ever known and they hate to see me suffering like this and being misinterpreted the way I am. I guess that's really all that matters. Those in real life.
> 
> This i know. I am loved. My life isn't over even though right now it hurts and looks bleak. I am moving and me and my children will be surrounded by so much love and support. I will be ok in time. I will follow God. I will be a woman of integrity and honor and I will never make those same choices again.


Do you really think ANY man wants to leave after being cheated on? They're hurt because of their deep LOVE. If he didn't give a crap and got over it quickly...that's the extent of his love for you.

There's a difference between willing to reconcile and true forgiveness. The process can include divorce while he finds out what he wants...you clinging on to him and trying to make up his mind for him is just going to push him further away from you. His latest comments are really showing his resentment starting to build.

Whether he's painting you in a bad light or whatever, just stay away. Why keep posting her telling US anything when you're supposed to be winning him over?

It just comes off as theatrics to us and he's not amused by it, so far.

For both your sakes, I hope you're truly repentant. One day you'll wake up past all the flowery words and empty actions to find how much you REALLY do love him and self-realize that you didn't actually understand the full weight of your infidelity....and he's gone. So far it's mostly you telling him how he should feel and that because you're in so much pain, he needs to make up his mind.

That's not how it works when you screw up. You are the bad guy in this case, no matter his faults that somehow lead up to it. You don't get that distinction now, unless you plan to give up on him.


----------



## Openminded

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Open minded,
> 
> we all get angry and today I am. I respect how he feels "today" too.
> 
> I wish he would understand what lengths I would go to to regain and rebuild his trust and to help him feel secure with me forever. I have learned QUITE the lesson and would never do this again. I would NEVER hurt him again. I told him he was my first love and he will be my last. I will prove that to him if it takes the rest of my life. I only want him. I will always be "his" just like he says. I will see to it. I mean it. He can divorce me and I will still be only his. That's not something I'm just saying either....I mean it and I will prove it to him.
> 
> Ok I gotta go eat something and take shower. The crying has me feeling like I'm gonna faint. I need to take care of myself like Ella says.
> 
> For what it's worth, PM's are turned off for me now. I didn't realize that was an option, but after I saw it mentioned, I found how to do it. For the sake of transparency, DriftingOn has emailed me a few times but Rocket has full access to those emails. I have a great friend from a city we once lived in that has been a former WS (we never knew this) and they survived it. She is a Godly woman and is mentoring me now. Everyone can chill on that now lol


Some people can R and some can't. You could mean absolutely everything you say 100% but that still doesn't mean he could get beyond what you've done. Many of us have divorced spouses we loved and wanted to be with forever but we just couldn't make it work no matter how hard we tried. That's just the reality sometimes of infidelity.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Itsandwich,

No I agree wholeheartedly with you. I am letting go of him because I do love him. I've said it already even if he divorces me, I will remain faithful to him and I mean that. I know I have to let go, it's just a very painful thing to do and I know it is for him too. I know that man loves me. I believe that with all my heart. And it's real. 

I want him to find peace. He is tormented right now and I don't want that for him. I want him to find healing...from what I've done and even more. If I can be really real, what I wish for him more than anything is that he would give his life back to Jesus and accept His forgiveness for himself even. That's my prayer above all else. I wish he would surrender it all to God.

I am jumping off of his thread. I have to get my self pulled together. I've let my emotions run today and control me which is not self control. I have so much to be doing to prepare to move and have allowed my emotions to dictate my day. I was doing so well too. Dang it. I'm a work in progress. 

Tomorrow is a new day. Thank God because this one has been rough. 

Rocket, I'm sorry baby. I had a bad day and was angry with you. I'm under so much stress and terrified right now. I'm spiraling and feel lost today. I'm trying to be strong and to have it all together, but I don't. Please forgive me for being angry. I have a hard time not finding my identity in you because we are one. It's hard to separate myself from you and it be ok in my soul. I know you aren't the source of my life though and I'm trying to let go. I'm trying, baby.


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## LosingHim

You aren't getting the support you want because too many people can see through your words. I'm a wayward. I'm also betrayed but that came at a much later time. I came here to save my marriage. I would SOB reading some of the things people said to me. Because I didn't think they got me. They didn't KNOW ME!!!! But here's the thing, they didn't need to. Why? Because we all follow a script. We all have similar thoughts. I'm not some special wayward. It's just that I stuck around here and I LEARNED. There are still members here who don't "like" me and never will, regardless of how much I learn or how much remorse I have. And that's ok. That's part of the price I pay for being who I was. But I'd say a good chunk of this board cares about me and was genuinely trying to help me save my marriage - until I also became betrayed. There are few and far between those who are still rooting for my narriage, but even as a wayward I know they are rooting for ME and they feel that I deserve happiness and love, regardless of the awful choices I made.

These are real people and they do care about you and Rocket. But you will not skate with unicorns and glitter while you still don't get it.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. I am so trying. I just had a crap day. The daughter that was so distraught yesterday is now excited about moving, but now the 6 year old is crying a lot. Kids destroyed the house I had just cleaned. I argued with Rocket which I hate on a normal married day, my Rx got screwed up at the pharmacy, I started thinking about having to pull away in that moving truck without my husband and lost it. I've been angry, sad, exhausted, stressed, scared, emotional, nauseous, mad at myself, mad at Rocket...just a crap day in general. Some days are harder than others and today was one of them. I apologized to Rocket and he texted me that we all have bad days and it's expected. Sweet. I'm at the grocery store now and headed home to make dinner. I will be ok. Maybe not today, but I will. I'd love to talk to you more though LosingHim. My PM's are turned off yet I just got one from someone else. I have no idea how or why? Hacked! Lol


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## Rubix Cubed

Rocketskates this post is to you, the OP of this thread that came here seeking help.



Sofa Sleeper said:


> I know my sins have caused the final marriage break,... I'm willing. You are not. THAT is the current reality. We cannot change our past, but you and I together have the ability to change our future for ourselves, our marriage and our family. You will not look that direction though.
> 
> When you believe sowing and reaping trumps love.......
> 
> Love never fails.





Sofa Sleeper said:


> Me cheating had nothing to do with my love for him and he knows that.


 Such a metric **** ton of self serving drivel. Of course she's "willing" she's got everything to gain and nothing to lose in R. Sofa blew this marriage up and casts blame in every direction but her own. OH, she'll say she owns up ,until she gets mad and then out comes the spin, blameshifting, and denial. She should be in politics or used car sales.



Magnesium said:


> Yep....such gross manipulation and self-absorbedness. It's disgusting. And she goes and changes her profile picture. "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME." Shameful...
> 
> I swear, everything she has said and done is TEXTBOOK narcissism. She cannot help herself.
> 
> RUN ROCKET, RUN!


This is the truth. Magnesium nailedit. If there is any doubt it's not all about her, look how she came in here and completely Hi-Jacked Rocket's thread , which was intended to help him, after her's was locked. What a piece of work. About the worst I've seen come to these threads.



Rocket Skates76 said:


> I am refusing to defend myself because I told myself I would not turn this thread into the Jerry Springer show.
> 
> Sofa, i'm glad you are feeling the disconnect because now you're back to baseless accusations and I'm getting a glimpse of the real vindictive you again apparently.
> 
> Feel free to carry-on that is fine and paint
> me however you feel necessary.


 @Rocket Skates76 ,
Taking the high road, Nice! I'm glad you see through her little act . As I said way back it's all cyclic and revolves around how she is percieved and whether she's getting her way. Pure narcissism.
Hang in there and do what is right for you, that will inherently be what's right for the kids, and you've realized Sofa will do what's right for her no matter what,it's all she knows, so don't worry about her.


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## blahfridge

Sofa, you need to heed your therapist's advice and stay away from here. It isn't helping you or Rocket. I don't post often, but I read a lot. TAM can be toxic sometimes, more than once I've gone to bed or woken up in complete and utter despair because something someone posted triggered anger and/or guilt over the infidelity in my own marriage. Find a new therapist wherever you are moving to, focus on yourself and your children. And don't say things like you'll wait forever for Rocket, it's unrealistic for either of you and just feeds into the drama in your lives. 

Get yourself whole and forget about men for a long while. That includes your husband who needs to suck it up too and stop acting like he hasn't sown what he reaped either. Your marriage was born from betrayal and now it's come full circle. My H was shocked to his core when I had an EA after his multiple PA's. Even said to me about my EA partner, "but he's married!" Like he wasn't. Karma does usually come around. 

Rocket, I'm not blaming you for her actions, I just think you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself, given your own history of cheating. I suspect there's some wallowing going on for both of you. Rocket, you need to stop drinking and be a present father to your children. Sofa, you've said over and over again in both threads that you know you need to do. Now do it. 

Everyone else needs to stop beating a dead horse, most people are saying the same thing now and some of the comments have been nasty and personal. It's like a feeding frenzy sometimes here when BS find a WS. You're not helping her by giving her attention. That's the last thing Sofa needs.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I know I am not liked here and that's ok. 

Rocket has made his decision. I am accepting it. What part of I am moving 2 states away did you not read? He will be free from "his sofa" as he affectionately calls me. He has seen a side of me he didn't know could exist that I'm ashamed of, but he has seen the other sides of me that he loves that you'll never see or hear about. I am not my mistakes. I am not a bad person. I made bad choices. Unfortunately my choices have ruined us. I stand by what I've always said that I will do anything to make it right and if making it right is me letting go and moving away, then that is what I do. I have no right to even ask for reconciliation. I will still be faithful to him though. No matter what. I will.

I love you, Rocket. We all do so much. Life isn't the same without you in it. We miss you so much. So very much.


----------



## Affaircare

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Rocket,
> 
> This is going to sound harsh, but just as you speak of your reality, I speak of mine.


This is potentially one of the saddest things I've read lately. Actually you really DID NOT need to speak your reality. I honestly understant that your version of reality differs from @Rocket Skates76, but this is HIS THREAD, and his safe place, and now, because you've forced your way into his place and destroyed his safety, he has nowhere he can turn to even express himself. Okay I'm fairly confident he's not at his best right now. We're not arguing there. But this was not your thread or your place to take over. It was HIS. And yet again, your actions have spoken louder than your words, and what your actions said was "I do not care about YOUR hurting or YOUR safety. I'm willing to sacrifice YOU in order to make myself feel better." As long as your actions say that, it doesn't matter what your words say. 



> There is so much hope, but sadly you will not allow yourself to see it. You will not even try or open your heart to it. You have refused marriage counseling since July and instead received and opened your heart and spirit to counsel from hurting betrayed people that you'll never meet in real life who also have no hope and have extreme hatred towards WS's and think the only option is divorce. Do these people REALLY care about YOU, your wife or your children? We are their daily form of reality TV entertainment. You have a wife that would move heaven and earth to make things right though...that would do ANYTHING to save our marriage and our family. Would you? Would you do anything?


 @Sofa Sleeper, our Lord is the only one who can forgive, heal the broken, and sanctify sinners. You are so right about that. We have a God of hope who provides us salvation in spite of our sin! But part of the issue here is that YOU did the activity that was the knife in the heart of your marriage--you did that activity at least twice within your marriage to @Rocket Skates76, and yet you are the one who is not allowing yourself to see it. YOU murdered the marriage, not him. You act and speak as if it's all his fault for choosing to divorce, but in real life, what he is doing is acknowleging the true state of marriage. ADULTERY KILLED IT. 

He may be refusing MC since July because he is acknowleging there is no marriage. YOUR ACTIONS made it dead. Not alive. He opened his heart and spirit to people who took the time to listen to him and care about HIS feelings and HIS safety, and all this time later, you still aren't even doing that. And trust me, I've been on this site for many years (you can see by my name) and the folks here are not gentle with WS's but they do not HATE WS's. I think almost every hurting, betrayed person here would really wish that WS's would wisen up, stop their adultery, learn how to become faithful, and be better people! But wisening up, stopping the sin, learning to be godly, and recovering from this life-altering choice do not necessarily mean that the marriage is saved! See that's where you go off kilter. 

Do we really care about @Rocket Skates76? You betcha! You think we'd invest our time and best advice and even hopes if we didn't care? Do we really care about you and your kids? You betcha! You know how you can tell? Because over and over and over again, despite the fact that you've been angry with me and spoken meanly and harshly OF me and TO me, I keep doing what is the most loving thing I can do to you: telling you the truth as a friend. I know this truth is *NOT* something you want to hear much less think about or accept. And frankly, I could easily tickle your ears with WS schmoopies and "Oh you're a good person" and blahblahblah but I care about you too much. I want you to GROW in righteousness, and that requires me to take your barbs and spite and keep telling you the best, true wisdom you most definitely do not want to hear. 



> You have harbored unforgiveness towards yourself for 10 years. If you cannot forgive yourself, how can you forgive me? You are not open to receiving or accepting love and forgiveness from the Lord (you've said it yourself) for your own sin, so how could you offer that to me or anyone for that matter.


Look, as best as I can tell, @Rocket Skates76 has his own path that would be wise for him to walk. You're right he does need to learn to accept the Lord's forgiveness because clinging to the sin and guilt when you've already been forgiven is like holding onto rags when you've been given silk. It leads to depression and keeps us tethered to sin. So yep, it may be that he needs to walk that path. But to equivocate that now he can't forgive is quite a leap. And his walk isn't your walk. You have things you need to learn of your own, not the least of which is that you aren't in control. 



> Yes, our children are hurting bad. I'm here with them holding them and reassuring them that we both love them and we will all be ok. I'm faking the biggest smile to make them feel safe and secure even though I don't even feel that myself and I'm literally dying inside. But where are you? At your parents drinking too much and texting me and saying you shouldn't be texting me because you are Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Where were you last night when our 8 year old daughter was having diarrhea from anxiety so bad that she was soiling her clothes over and over and not able to make it to the bathroom in time? Were you here with me comforting them after I broke the news to them?
> Remain an attentive father? You do not make sure to even text them back when they text you. You have only taken our baby boy ONE time to spend the night with you in the past 10 weeks. You say having all 4 of them is too much at once. You have a day off each week (sometimes 2 days off), but do you use that time off to come get your kids or to see them? No. They are not your priority now and we live 5 minutes away. Things will be better when we are 7 hours away?


So allow me to point out that this entire paragraph is nothing but trying to guilt @Rocket Skates76 into doing what you want by painting him as the bad guy. You are faking your smile because you aren't genuine, not because of Rocket. You are pointing out his drinking in an effort to make you look like super-parent while he looks like he's abandoning his own children. Maybe he is drinking--I have no facts so I can not make a judgement--but what I can say is this: is he usually a "drinker"? If he has not been a drunkard during your marriage, then did you ever even stop to wonder why he might be drinking now? Why do people drink to drunkenness, @Sofa Sleeper? What does that tell you about what he is thinking and feeling? Nope, it's all about you. YOU are dying inside, and YOU were there for your daughter, and YOU are the attentive parent.... It never even crosses your mind. And then you get mad at US for pointing out to you that maybe you have some things to consider. 

Seriously, are you aware that @Rocket Skates76 is the father of these children, exactly equal to your stature as "parent" and even moreso given the authority under God to be the head of the family? That means he would be well within his right to stay in the marital home, father the children in the home that he honored during the marriage, keep the family together in the marital home, and KICK YOU OUT? You were the one who strayed, not him. But instead, he chose to think of the kids who need their home and their mom. Do you think he misses his own children and maybe that's why he drinks? Do you think he can't handle the pain of losing his children? Do you EVER even think of these possibilities and ask him what it feels like to have your wife betray you and then turn around and not be able to tuck your kids in at night? Maybe he misses them enough that he's numbing that pain... but he's enduring it for there sake. Ever think of that? No. Makes me sad. 



> I know my sins have caused the final marriage break, but there is always hope and this madness and bleeding could be stopped and healed. I'm willing. You are not. THAT is the current reality. We cannot change our past, but you and I together have the ability to change our future for ourselves, our marriage and our family. You will not look that direction though.


This madness and bleeding ABSOLUTELY could be stopped and healed, but the first step is not forcing your spouse to accept YOUR TERMS. The first step is humbling yourself, stop demanding your way, and start thinking of him...and what he's going through. Stop ARGUING and start LISTENING. Just give yourself one moment to consider, "Could it be that what they are suggesting has a kernel of merit to it?" Right now there is a definite reason why there is not healing, and that's because the uncaring actions are in the present--currently STILL happening--and as long as you continue to hurt and hurt and hurt him, that is not acting in a loving way toward him 

@Sofa Sleeper you keep saying that you love him. How do you show that? What actions do you do that are kind and gentle and patient and caring, that have NOTHING to do with you getting something but are only in service to your spouse? Do you take away his one safe place to talk to people? Do you take over HIS thread? If you want to vent--cool, but not on his thread! Are you kind and recognize that while he hurts, he may not be the wisest and give him a safe place to be in pain? Do you treat him gently so that you consider "Will my response here hurt him more? Will my writing here cause more damage TO HIM? Will he have a place to have a tough time and not be his best? Does he have assurance in the way that I act, that I am considering him before myself?" Are you patient with his imperfections? Are you patient with how long it may or may not take to recover? Are you patient with how VERY long it's going to take to rebuild trust BY BEING TRUST-WORTHY? Because right now, you dropped a nuke on all you'd built, you have not laid brick one in rebuilding what you destroyed, and I do not see your actions demonstrating that you are willing to go one brick at a time showing that you are worthy of trust. You can't just yell that you're changed for me to believe it--you have to SHOW ME. Show me you are different. In the past, you turned to other men for validation...and you somewhat did that again. In the past you minimized your adultery, and you are somewhat doing that again saying that blowjobs aren't sex. SHOW ME how you are different. BE different. That is the very definition of change. 

@Rocket Skates76--here's my message to you right out in public. I admit that I don't really know what's going on. I'm not there with you and I don't see what you do and do not do. But I will say two things: a) I'm sorry you don't have a place that is your own where you can speak and share--good or bad, and b) if I try to weed through it all and discern what's happening, it sounds like you are deeply hurting. Do you have some support available to you? My impression of you has been that you are able to examine and think your way through issues. I hope you arent allowing this to pull you under. If you sort of are, please ask and I'm sure there are tons of people here who are wise who'd be willing to help you walk through it.


----------



## Roselyn

Good grief! I hope that Rocket's thread don't get locked down too like Sofa's! Rocket, I'm really sorry for your situation. Sofa, if you're reading this: you need to give this thread back to Rocket! Dang, you're as invasive as a tick!


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## Sofa Sleeper

I'm sorry. I admit I was out of line today. I apologized to my husband already. 

I'm leaving his thread. He needs support.


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## sokillme

Satya said:


> Sofa, I'd politely disagree and offer that many, many people here, know EXACTLY how much love you have for one another. They have felt the same with their own WS or even people they were dating and left.
> 
> As I have said here many times, in many circumstances, you can love someone deeply and they can still be wrong for you.
> 
> All the best.


Yeah love isn't enough anyway. Love is just one part of the equation. Character is just as big a part.


----------



## just got it 55

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Rocket,
> 
> This is going to sound harsh, but just as you speak of your reality, I speak of mine.
> 
> There is so much hope, but sadly you will not allow yourself to see it. You will not even try or open your heart to it. You have refused marriage counseling since July and instead received and opened your heart and spirit to counsel from hurting betrayed people that you'll never meet in real life who also have no hope and have extreme hatred towards WS's and think the only option is divorce. Do these people REALLY care about YOU, your wife or your children? We are their daily form of reality TV entertainment. You have a wife that would move heaven and earth to make things right though...that would do ANYTHING to save our marriage and our family. Would you? Would you do anything?
> 
> You have harbored unforgiveness towards yourself for 10 years. If you cannot forgive yourself, how can you forgive me? You are not open to receiving or accepting love and forgiveness from the Lord (you've said it yourself) for your own sin, so how could you offer that to me or anyone for that matter.
> 
> Yes, our children are hurting bad. I'm here with them holding them and reassuring them that we both love them and we will all be ok. I'm faking the biggest smile to make them feel safe and secure even though I don't even feel that myself and I'm literally dying inside. But where are you? At your parents drinking too much and texting me and saying you shouldn't be texting me because you are Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Where were you last night when our 8 year old daughter was having diarrhea from anxiety so bad that she was soiling her clothes over and over and not able to make it to the bathroom in time? Were you here with me comforting them after I broke the news to them?
> Remain an attentive father? You do not make sure to even text them back when they text you. You have only taken our baby boy ONE time to spend the night with you in the past 10 weeks. You say having all 4 of them is too much at once. You have a day off each week (sometimes 2 days off), but do you use that time off to come get your kids or to see them? No. They are not your priority now and we live 5 minutes away. Things will be better when we are 7 hours away?
> 
> I know my sins have caused the final marriage break, but there is always hope and this madness and bleeding could be stopped and healed. I'm willing. You are not. THAT is the current reality. We cannot change our past, but you and I together have the ability to change our future for ourselves, our marriage and our family. You will not look that direction though.
> 
> When you believe sowing and reaping trumps love.......
> 
> Love never fails.
> 
> It's not over. It doesn't have to be.


Professional Guilt tripper

You had me..........Right up to this indefensible post

55


----------



## TX-SC

Rocket and Sofa, you have both been through a lot. I honestly feel bad for BOTH of you, and your children. I believe that Sofa is remorseful and feels horrible about what she has done. I also know that Rocket has his reasons and is acting in what he feels is his best interest. He knows Sofa better than anyone. I'll leave it to his wisdom.

From my perspective, I think this marriage is salvageable. The hard part for me would be the part where Sofa pursued the other guy. That's hard to get over. It's one thing to "give in" under pressure, but it's another altogether to actually chase the guy and get upset when he snubs you. With that being said, she did not have sex with the guy. It was oral only, and I think I remember he never returned the favor. So, at least there's THAT. 

I believe that's a really hard part to get over. Why did Sofa want to please this man so much? Why was she so intent on pleasuring/impressing him? Was it all about him stoking her ego? I have a hard time believing that since he would immediately go cold afterwards. It is a question that needs to be pursued.

With all that being said, I do believe that Sofa is genuine in her remorse and I certainly can understand her getting worked up today. She's human and has emotions. Sometimes, life can just be too much.

Guys, I really wish you the best and I hope that Rocket can forgive Sofa and save the marriage. I do understand how it might not be possible, but my best wishes are with your family.


----------



## sokillme

Well I got to the point where now we are doing marriage counseling on the thread. I find this whole thing to be kind of gratuitous now. I am almost of the mind to think we are all being taken for a ride. But there have been threads here before where this happened. Who knows. I don't think it good though. 
@Sofa Sleeper, I know you think I dislike you. But I am really trying to help you. Thing is even here you seem more concerned about the perception of you than fixing who you are and what you did. I would urge you to leave here alone and let Rocket have his space. I think you should go post on SurvivingInfidelity.com in the wayward section. I think it would fit your style better. You will be less combative when you know the advice is coming from waywords just like you. You also won't be able to dismiss them as bitter people. Not all the advice is good but there are some very good posters there as well. There will probably be people over there who have read your story here. Some of them will probably defend you and tell you how horrible we were to you. But most of them will also call you on some of your thinking. 

The one thing I can say for you is a believe you want your marriage, but you are not showing the kind of introspection that it's going to take. There is a post on that board right now by someone called "DaddyDom", the thread is "Struggling with feelings". You should read it, that is the kind of attitude you are going to need to have. I really hope you get there. Even if Rocket divorces you it doesn't mean it has to be over. If you change maybe he can heal and you guys can start fresh but YOU have to change. Even if it's not with Rocket you need to change so that you can have a successful relationship. It will affect your whole life and all your relationships. 

I urge you to read the post and start posting on the board. I also urge you to let your guard down, stop trying to protect yourself and really take the focus on you and put it on your actions and what they mean to Rocket and yourself. Stop trying to say what you think will defend yourself or what you think will make you sympathetic and post how you really feel and felt. Then work from there. Think of yourself as an alcoholic, who has hit rock bottom. When they are at that stage they don't say, I am an alcoholic but I am that way because of blah blah blah, and I know I am still good and I didn't really do all that bad. NO they say, I am an alcoholic I can't seem to fix this. I am not good at this. I need help, because I have destroyed my life and everyone around me's life. That's it. You need to get there before you are truly going to get better.


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## LosingHim

TX-SC said:


> Rocket and Sofa, you have both been through a lot. I honestly feel bad for BOTH of you, and your children. I believe that Sofa is remorseful and feels horrible about what she has done. I also know that Rocket has his reasons and is acting in what he feels is his best interest. He knows Sofa better than anyone. I'll leave it to his wisdom.
> 
> From my perspective, I think this marriage is salvageable. The hard part for me would be the part where Sofa pursued the other guy. That's hard to get over. It's one thing to "give in" under pressure, but it's another altogether to actually chase the guy and get upset when he snubs you. With that being said, she did not have sex with the guy. It was oral only, and I think I remember he never returned the favor. So, at least there's THAT.
> 
> I believe that's a really hard part to get over. Why did Sofa want to please this man so much? Why was she so intent on pleasuring/impressing him? Was it all about him stoking her ego? I have a hard time believing that since he would immediately go cold afterwards. It is a question that needs to be pursued.
> 
> With all that being said, I do believe that Sofa is genuine in her remorse and I certainly can understand her getting worked up today. She's human and has emotions. Sometimes, life can just be too much.
> 
> Guys, I really wish you the best and I hope that Rocket can forgive Sofa and save the marriage. I do understand how it might not be possible, but my best wishes are with your family.


I generally want couples to R. Especially the ones that "get it" and are remorseful. But I've said a million times here, you can't R with a remorseless cheater. Trust me, I'm living it. I don't believe my husband is currently cheating. But I also think he feels justified in his cheating and even if he doesn't feel justified, he doesn't feel bad about it at all. We were going through a rough time, I had cheated and his "head wasn't right". So I deal with not only the fact that I destroyed another human being, but my own pain. With zero compassion or understanding from the person that caused about 50% of my pain. I don't expect him to heal what I did. But I do expect at the very least compassion for what he did. Being on both sides of this coin, I don't think Rocket could fully R with her right now. While she says the right words, and I do understand her anger from confusion right now, she's not at a point where she would facilitate a healthy R.


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## sokillme

Affaircare said:


> WS schmoopies


 :rofl:


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## 3putt

I swore to myself I would never post on this board again, but this comment is just too fascinating to ignore.



Sofa Sleeper said:


> And an open marriage is not happening with us.


I've got news for you. You have been in an open marriage for quite some time. The only problem with that is you forgot to let Rocket know about it. I can't believe you had the audacity to type that. And then this little priceless nugget.....



Sofa Sleeper said:


> Satka,
> I don't want this. He doesn't want this.
> 
> *Nobody understands how much we love each other.*
> 
> This is not happening.....


Well, if I'm Rocket, the first thing I would be asking myself is this: _If this is what she is capable of doing to me when she loves me so deeply, then just what the hell would she be capable of if she actually hated me?
_


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## sokillme

TX-SC said:


> With that being said, she did not have sex with the guy. It was oral only, and I think I remember he never returned the favor. So, at least there's THAT.


I have to disagree oral sex is sex, it's also probably one of the most intimate and submissive forms of sex because it's not reciprocal like penetrative sex is. I don't get why it's considered less then normal sex. How many women will have sex but not oral, that just goes to show how intimate and giving of an action it is. Reinforcing her minimization of it is not going to help them. I doubt Rocket cares what kind of sex they had. Please stop.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Agree sokillme. I am a woman and giving oral sex is intimate and just as sexual as piv. Moreso sometimes. Then what, did she kiss him after? The same mind movies and wonders and questions would happen no matter what kind of sex. There's no level to which is worse.


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## TX-SC

sokillme said:


> I have to disagree oral sex is sex, it's also probably one of the most intimate and submissive forms of sex because it's not reciprocal like penetrative sex is. I don't get why it's considered less then normal sex. How many women will have sex but not oral, that just goes to show how intimate and giving of an action it is. Reinforcing her minimization of it is not going to help them. I doubt Rocket cares what kind of sex they had. Please stop.


It's a matter of perspective, but the point is that she did not give him her body, which might or might not mean anything. It was not about her pleasure, only his. That's the point I was making (overall). She was only interested in his pleasure, and she went to great lengths to pursue that. I'm really not sure what she was getting out of it.

We have seen time and again that the kind of sex IS important to most guys. They want to know what was done and how. In this instance, sex was restricted to only her performing oral on him. The fact that some women have issues with giving BJs means SOMETHING. BUT, then how many men here have had a random BJ after a party or at a nightclub. I know I have.

Rocket must make his own decisions. Honestly, I think the negativity on TAM is bad for him and Sofa. They should take a break from here for a while and work on themselves.


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## Openminded

Rocket, I hope that you find peace.


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## TaDor

Sofa Sleeper said:


> He can even go and be free with whoever and I'll wait for him. I mean it. My love and commitment to him is real. I am staying in therapy too to help keep me on track.
> 
> And an open marriage is not happening with us.


LOL!!! That is actually funny. You've been having an open marriage for months - you just didn't tell Rocket about it. Hmmmm.

I'm not going to qoute everyone else. But your brain is wired for cheating. My wife had tears too. "I love you and won't lie to you". But she did. When I first came here almost two years ago - the folks here were blunt with me. They beat me up a bit. They supported me, some likely do not. But a lot of folks here HELPED ME and my relationship. They helped me to search for help in the real world. They helped me when I was down. So when they told me my wife was "full of crap" - I did NOT believe them. I wanted to believe her. 
She was full of crap. It will still take years to to get to where I need to be. I thought it'll be 6 months. But there are always things that come up, which is why we're in therapy.

I will agree with others here. You say you are remorseful, but you are not there yet. I don't know if its possible for your to get there, but for sure - you are lying to yourself IF you think you are.
You do NOT know the pain Rocket is going through. If you are feeling pain, crank it up 100X - that is the pain. I am in pain daily from broken bones last year... but compare to what my wife did to me and our family. ITS NOTHING. I'm in an ambulance, etc - broken body, doctors sticking things into my body - was NOTHING to the pain in my heart and my head from when my wife destroyed our family. My recently started reconciling wife gets to the hospital ASAP and takes care of our baby and my home got me through it. But the pain of affair is what hurts more. Only now, I'm feeling a new level of peace.

You *DO NOT* now how Rocket feels. You are confused by him saying "I love you" and later seeing him say "I'm divorcing her". Boohoo on your confusion. In his head, in a span of 5 minutes he could go from crying, to loving you, to hating you, to mind-movies, to love you forever, to trust you again, to not trust you, hate you, etc. That is very stressful crap.

I am no longer legally married to my wife. We have final orders. I am not attached to her. But we live together in our home, with our child and working on our future.

So yeah, give him an easy divorce. Let him heal. Both of you get better and perhaps you both will come back together. My wife gave me everything legally, that I wanted and could get by state law - to prove to me how much she trusts me. How much she is willing to show me her belly. To not fight me, but to work on herself and bring our family back together. Thus, she opened her legal work to me, her plans to use against me, etc. Needless to say - she was always in a weak position to begin with. And her lawyer was scamming her for thousands of dollars, which took me about 10 minutes to spot and show her. Took her a while to trust me on that one, as it should, as it would have been major legal issues if I was pulling a fast one on her, but I don't lie. I don't screw people over.

You've not proven yourself. You are saying the right things. "trust me" is not one you have earned yet. Sorry, but doing just oral is so unlikely - as if it really changes anything. You did what you did for the thrills. Just like my wife. You were not thinking about your husband, just like any cheating wife. You didn't care about your kids, just like any other cheater. If you did - if you actually did, then you wouldn't have done none of the things you told or have not told Rocket. 

Really, destroy your home, your family for a few pics and a couple of "quick" and "only the top" BJs? Usually, wayward wives do every nasty thing possible they can imagine - if they are going to get busted, might as well make it count and go for broke. Cheaters have posted here and in therapy about doing all kinds of things - quickly. Maybe the truth was oral, but does it make it all okay? Sorry. Been there "We did not have sex that night. You are just paranoid". Reality: 6 months later in a MC session "yes, we had sex on the couch at his friends place while they were asleep in their bedroom."

You have a way to go. A long journey. You are welcome to prove your loyality to Rocket and that you are a changed woman. How you do it and if he accepts you in the future, well - that is up to Rocket and even you. If you can change and he wants to R, then by all means - more power to the both of you. Don't waste his time, either way.

PS: Pass or fail, I am content that we started Reconcilliation last May and continue working on our relationship today.


----------



## eric1

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I know I am not liked here and that's ok.
> 
> Rocket has made his decision. I am accepting it. What part of I am moving 2 states away did you not read? He will be free from "his sofa" as he affectionately calls me. He has seen a side of me he didn't know could exist that I'm ashamed of, but he has seen the other sides of me that he loves that you'll never see or hear about. I am not my mistakes. I am not a bad person. I made bad choices. Unfortunately my choices have ruined us. I stand by what I've always said that I will do anything to make it right and if making it right is me letting go and moving away, then that is what I do. I have no right to even ask for reconciliation. I will still be faithful to him though. No matter what. I will.
> 
> I love you, Rocket. We all do so much. Life isn't the same without you in it. We miss you so much. So very much.



You will not be faithful because you will be divorced. At that point faithful stops existing and your celibacy would become a weird form of post-marital stalking & manipulation.

Please be healthy for the sake of your child and accept reality.

You maybe could make a good life going forward but that likelihood does not exist anymore. You did that and the cause of that is on you. You're an adult - actions have consequences and this is what happens when you cheat. If you find this pain incredible then my recommendation is to use it as a life lesson and do not cheat in subsequent relationships.


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## TaDor

Oh snap. @Sofa Sleeper Something comes to mind about something you said. Yeah, it sucks to be forced into marriage over relgious or culture reasons vs. love. Okay, your marriage was already "dead" so why not divorce to begin with?
Why not divorce before having sex with other men?
Why not divorce before re-connecting with Rocket?

Here is a question: How was Rocket's marriage before you both started chatting and hooking up? He said his 1st wife didn't deserve what he did to her. 
Who contacted who first? With you being in a loveless marriage - did you open contact with Rocket, wanting what he already had?

Did he give HIS wife a chance to save the marriage as much as he is right now with you?

I'm not asking these questions to be a jerk, its just something that should be noted as nobody here knows and you brought it up.

Sorry folks, I've seen some manipulative crap done in my life. Even to my own wife by others that she couldn't see.


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## thefam

First of all I apologize for posting this on your thread, Rocket, but since Sofa has said she has disabled PM's, this is the only way I know to say this to her. 


I second what the poster who recommended Surviving Infidelity said. Since I am trying to help a family member and I have ruled out TAMs infidelity Forum I decided to go and check out surviving infidelity. I agree with the poster I think that would be a much better site for you. One thing I noticed immediately is that betrayed spouses seem to confine their wrath to their own spouse as opposed to projecting it onto the Wayward who is posting. Honestly although I've never cheated I don't see how anybody could benefit from a group of people lashing out at them as the way they do here on TAM. On Surviving infidelity it seems to be a bit more productive. From the few threads I've read the Betrayed spouses say what happened with them how they feel what they go through and how they feel about their own waywards. Maybe reading some of those stores will help you see what Rocket is going through In a Different Light because it is not from a position of lashing out directly at you. 

Hope this helps both of you at some point. But in any case. I think that it would be a much better place for you Sofa. Maybe it will even help you to finally let go of TAM which clearly is not helping you in any way and I don't think it ever will.


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## JustTheFacts

Fact : RocketSkates cheated on his first wife with SofaSleeper. I can only imagine the pain that she went through. It must have been brutal.
Fact : SofaSleeper cheated on her first husband with RocketSkates. She does claim that he cheated on her too so maybe a wash there. Who knows.
Fact : SofaSleeper cheated on RocketSkates. Big surprise. Cheaters cheat.
Fact : RocketSkates is constantly giving SofaSleeper false hope just as recently as 2 days ago which is extremely cruel. 

To me this is nothing more than the Karma Bus having a direct hit here.
The only ones that I feel sympathy for are the children because they are caught in the middle of this.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

They both need to get off the roller coaster. It's not healthy. 
They are going back and forth. He sleeps with her one day and tells tam he's decided on divorce the next. She's up and down, one minute understanding she has to start moving on and the next saying she'll wait for him forever. 

Slow, back and forth, "maybe" break ups aren't healthy. Clean break for the both of them, stop having sex, stop the hope.


----------



## ConanHub

The back and forth from him can be explained by the emotional rollercoaster a betrayed goes through as well as a possible need to inflict some pain on his WW.

It is too easy to observe what is cruel, useful etc. when on the other side of the screen.

While I don't condone it, I understand RA's, b****Y or ahole attitudes, the need to inflict pain, retribution, etc... from a BS.

Primal emotions and reactions are as woven into us as any genetic trait.

They should be respected and acknowledged as well as cautioned about.

If someone told me not to do anything stupid if I was cheated on, they might get a slightly sinister smile as a reaction if anything.

I would be about dark business walking dark paths.


----------



## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> That's fair, but it's not what's in my heart. It's really not. I feel like I have to defend myself here. Mainly because of posts like that that really are not true. I would actually love to FaceTime someone like you to let you see me in person and really see my heart and not just read what I type. See me for me.


But why? WHY is this so ridiculously important to you? We're trying to help you here but you keep going in the wrong direction. Once you SOUNDED like you finally got it, people started supporting you. But then you went back to your SOP. I'm going to guess it's being the daughter of a minister, but you really need therapy to figure out why this drives you so much. If it's only because you want us to tell Rocket to go back to you, just say so. But if it's because you have this superstrong need for nobody to think badly of you, even Internet strangers, that's something you need to work out in therapy.



> I have no ill will against any of you, truly. I wish those who have sent Pm's saying you would give someone like me a chance because of my remorse, or you believe our marriage can be saved, or things being posted by others are Biblically off base, or that people here just want to see me punished, etc would be bold enough to post that stuff publicly. You know why they don't or can't? Because they would be bullied too. And for what? For showing support for me? For speaking their truth? Only divorce posts and encouragement of ending a marriage is popular here. Even when a WS is trying to do everything right in her life to be worthy of a chance, it's never enough.


We HAVE showed you support. Several times now. But you are your own worst enemy. We (most of us) rarely urge couples with kids to immediately end a marriage. BUT we also align that with the actions the WS is taking. And so far, aside from agreeing to move and telling your family, you haven't taken any actions that show you DO want to do what's best for HIM. Almost every single one of your posts has been about you, how you're suffering, how you have a special love that shouldn't end. Basically you're just here to win him back. And I get that. But we have bent over backwards to try to SHOW you what a betrayed spouse needs from his WS. And the first thing is to let go. I think I've seen at least 20 people tell you to back off and stop pushing it. That you're expecting something too soon. That he has to process a LOT and it will take time. We're trying to save your marriage, if for no reason other than to not break up the family, but also because we get that you two love each other. We've been giving you steps to take. You haven't taken the advice except for the two things above. Have you already scheduled a therapist? Have you offered to take a polygraph? Have you written No Contact letters to those guys and handed them over to your husband? Have you stayed off his thread? Have you offered to set up a post nup so if you cheat again, he walks away with everything or gets custody? 

All you've done is WORDS. And we keep telling you a betrayed spouse does not need words, he needs action. And yes, you ARE acting out of the scriptbook. We have this exact same conversation with every WS who comes here and, like you, they hem and haw until, sometimes, they truly get it and put the BETRAYED spouse's needs ahead of their own because they understand. If you truly understood, you'd stop all this.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

I said I was leaving his thread. There is enough hurt right now between he and I that posting here and even other graphic posts here I'm afraid are triggering him or just making his pain worse. Salt in a open wound. My posts have hurt him too and he let me know and I am sorry for that. I don't want to hurt him or see him hurt any more than he's already been. I also don't want anyone on here to hurt him (not knowing they are) by bringing up the nature of the acts over and over again. He already knows what happened and hates it and hates that I deceived him. I just don't want him to suffer anymore and be reminded and tormented by it repeatedly. 

I am only replying to you, Turnera. I appreciate your attitude, help and heart. You have been balanced and fair and I have felt like you are one that cares for him and me and our family. 

I have asked to be polygraphed. I am hiding nothing and have told the truth. I have been begging for one since the beginning. I've even offered to pay for it. When Rocket mentioned that he was considering it once while we were having coffee together, tears of relief fell down my cheeks and a sigh of relief washed over me. 

No contact letters have not been written to the guitar dude only because I already have made no contact with him since June, blocked him and his number, deleted my Facebook and Instagram accounts, deleted the apps even. The guy lives in another town. We don't have the same friends anymore either so I never see him. My band friends are not a fan of his at all anymore...he is shady and has ducked my husband and his questions for months now and denied everything to save his own tail. Within a day or two of my full disclosure to my husband, I called my band manager and told him the truth about everything. I also quit the band. We were just about to start recording our first album and had writers on the album that write for Miranda Lambert, Kelsey Ballerini and Carrie Underwood. Atlantic Records was interested in us. One of their reps had been attending our shows even. I walked away from all of it to save my marriage and to show my husband that I was willing to give up anything to make this right. Also, I knew that the band would forever be a trigger for my husband. The day I quit the band, I even quit wearing all of my "country superstar" wardrobe as that too would trigger him. I haven't even listened to ONE single country song since then either. I walked away from the whole country music world.

Any man that used to text me strictly platonically has received a text from me stating I will no longer be texting or communicating with men as I take steps to create boundaries for myself and my marriage. I had musician friends that were even just being kind checking on me that got that text. It didn't matter to me though. I have to take the necessary measure. 

Also, Rocket has had and still has and will stilll have even when I move full access to phone records, my email account, and iCloud account. I am not hiding anything. 

This move is rough and hurts both Rocket and I a lot. Saying goodbye will be painful for all of us and it's something I am dreading. I am trying to be moved by October 1st and feel very rushed and even somewhat pressured by family and friends to do it. I will admit that I don't have peace about the move. A wise person told me when you feel rushed to do something, slow down and wait. Also, my patterns of dealing with pain in the past have been to run...run and escape to where comfort is. Comfort is where my family is in another state. So am I running again? I have made so many mistakes and just don't want to make another one. I'm scared of making a terrible mistake. So I have much unrest and feel very troubled. I'm questioning if this is the will of God to move. Rocket says he thinks initially it will be hard, but it's what's best, but that he won't speak for God. I don't want to cause anymore pain to anyone so I'm just really afraid. I don't have peace about it. I want my husband to have peace though and if me leaving brings HIM that peace, then I will do whatever I need to do to help him heal. 

His heart and his healing is important to me first and foremost. I wish I could take all of his pain away. I would do anything to be able to. My children and their pain is next on the list and I just want them to feel loved and secure and no longer afraid. They have been so afraid of us divorcing and I have to somehow dissipate that fear which is hard when I have the same fear myself. 

I have never tried to hide the fact that I want my marriage saved more than you all even know. I want my husband whole and healed and my children and family whole and put back together. Do I wish people on here would tell Rocket to fight for his marriage and family? Yes!! Do I wish people would encourage reconciliation and redemption for us? Yes! That isn't my purpose for trying to be here though. My purpose (when I came back) was to find out and learn what I needed to do and what kind of woman I need to be to even be worthy of a glimmer of chance. How to heal. How to help my husband heal. I know I've made mistakes in the process, but I'm trying. I really really am. I am human, I am flawed, I am hurting too, I am scared. DriftingOn knew it and believed it and was helping me. He even said that my brutal honesty and willingness to look inward was rare and even rarely seen on TAM. 

The need to defend myself is because I feel like I have been wrongfully accused (and I really HAVE BEEN) for the extent of the affairs. So much has been assumed that is completely inaccurate and that really is just frustrating especially when I know it's not true. I have been misread and misunderstood and it has hurt. I have been called names and drug through the mud here and it hurts when I know what's in my heart....all of it...the good and the bad, but it's being misconstrued or compared to every other wayward spouse. I get it that there is a script or a psychological pattern that I seem to be following. That doesn't mean I am a lost cause though or incapable of getting it and being changed. Please understand I don't want to be that pattern!! I don't want to be tossed into the sea of waywards. I want to be the exception to the rule for myself and my husband and my family. I want to be a success story for me and my family. I want to live honorably and right. 

So, I am willing to move away and let go of my marriage and to get well and allow my husband the space to get well too. I would be lying though if I told you I won't be praying that one day we will find our way back to each other though. When I say I will remain faithful to him now no matter what, it's not in a psycho stalker way. It's because I love him and only him. I know what it's like to be in another relationship and even married when I'm still in love with Rocket...already been there and done that. Actually he has too. We were each other's "firsts" and have loved each other madly and deeply for 24 years now. It's not something that can just be erased. It's real and we are very much connected to each other. 

I love that man. I love him so much. He truly loves me too and I am so thankful for that. He still has a soft spot for me even now and I am so lucky and blessed to still even now be "his". 

Does the pain ever stop?

ETA: I would gladly agree to a post nup too. I know I won't ever do this again. I mean that. Seeing the devastation first hand and living it is the greatest wake up call of my life. Also, I'm already in therapy and have been since 2 days after d-day. I did that own my own too. I have already found a new therapist in my new town we will be moving to too.


----------



## turnera

But again, only words. 

YOU schedule the polygraph. YOU go to a lawyer and have her write up a post nup. YOU write the letters and hand them to Rocket and he is free to do whatever he wants with them (these letters are a symbol of contrition, a psychological step you take for him to see). YOU go to his parents/siblings and tell them what you did and ask their forgiveness and their support for Rocket. YOU stop talking to him about how much you are hurting; even saying that makes him feel second class citizen. YOU remove any friends who enabled you to cheat and let him know. YOU find ways to show him you care and do them without him asking. YOU install a GPS on your phone and in your car. YOU send him a printout of your online activity and texts, calls, emails.

Quitting the band, clothes, music, it's a good start. But it's still all on your shoulders. Do you see the difference? This is all about whether YOUR actions show you actively working to make it up to him WHILE NOT ASKING for reconciliation.

That is how a couple can reunite after infidelity.


----------



## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> The need to defend myself is because I feel like I have been wrongfully accused (and I really HAVE BEEN) for the extent of the affairs. So much has been assumed that is completely inaccurate and that really is just frustrating especially when I know it's not true. I have been misread and misunderstood and it has hurt. I have been called names and drug through the mud here and it hurts when I know what's in my heart....all of it...the good and the bad, but it's being misconstrued or compared to every other wayward spouse.


So? 

I'm serious. So what? You said that. Again and again and again and again. And again. You would have seemed more remorseful had you said it once and let it be. The fact that you keep coming back over and over and over - on HIS thread! - just reeks manipulation. Sorry, but it does. You aren't doing it because you don't want some stranger thinking badly of you. You're doing it to manipulate Rocket's thoughts about you so that you can get what you want. 

And that is NOT getting you what you want. So just stop, ok?

Again, this is basic psychology. And if you truly truly can't stand that some Internet stranger thinks badly of you, well, as I said, you need to work on that in therapy because it's over the top sensitive or needy.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

IMO a big part of being a remorseful cheaters is respecting the BS if he or she decides to just divorce. No guilt trips, no manipulation, no begging. 
*IF* rocket has decided on divorce then let him do so in peace, as he should also let her move on in peace. Help provide an amicable and fair divorce for both and focus on repairing your own life without them. 

Sofa, I still suggest you start your own form of a 180 to detach and move your focus to your own life and not one with your husband.


----------



## PM1

Sofa Sleeper said:


> The need to defend myself is because I feel like I have been wrongfully accused (and I really HAVE BEEN) for the extent of the affairs. So much has been assumed that is completely inaccurate and that really is just frustrating especially when I know it's not true. I have been misread and misunderstood and it has hurt. I have been called names and drug through the mud here and it hurts when I know what's in my heart....all of it...the good and the bad, but it's being misconstrued or compared to every other wayward spouse. I get it that there is a script or a psychological pattern that I seem to be following. That doesn't mean I am a lost cause though or incapable of getting it and being changed. QUOTE]
> 
> I rarely post on here, but read a lot. I've been pulling for your marriage in general (despite the start), but I think you keep missing some key points because you are caught up in your own pattern. Go read. Read other threads. One of the most amazing things I have seen here is the consistency of patterns, or the "script." If you read enough, you start to see it. On both wayward and betrayed sides. Take a break from yourself and your story, go read for a bit. It might be helpful and provide insight. You might even find that you two need to divorce now to ever reconcile.
> 
> What made me find my password and log in though is your quote above. I just do not think you understand that it is completely possible that having another man's **** in your mouth is enough to end your marriage forever. It may not matter whether you did or did not do more. What if you polygraph and pass and Rocket still cannot get past it? Your photo showed a very pretty woman, but speaking for myself, if you were my wife I would not ever see your lips again without horrible visions going off in my head. EVERY time you kiss him, that may be happening.
> 
> Perhaps if you truly let that sink in (and no need to say it has), you can actually heal and move on. Good luck to you both, however it goes.


----------



## LosingHim

PM1 said:


> I rarely post on here, but read a lot. I've been pulling for your marriage in general (despite the start), but I think you keep missing some key points because you are caught up in your own pattern. Go read. Read other threads. One of the most amazing things I have seen here is the consistency of patterns, or the "script." If you read enough, you start to see it. On both wayward and betrayed sides.


That was one of the most sobering things I felt here. Seeing ‘the script’ in myself. Reading things and saying “Jesus, that was ME” and then seeing it multiple times. And then on the betrayed side as well. If it wasn’t such a morbid subject, I’d be fascinated by it. How alike all humans are on the inside.


----------



## TX-SC

Okay, F me then. I'm out.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

TX-SC said:


> Okay, F me then. I'm out.


Huh??


----------



## Openminded

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Huh??


You said you were out of this thread and that's a very good idea.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I said I was leaving his thread. There is enough hurt right now between he and I that posting here and even other graphic posts here I'm afraid are triggering him or just making his pain worse. Salt in a open wound. My posts have hurt him too and he let me know and I am sorry for that. I don't want to hurt him or see him hurt any more than he's already been. I also don't want anyone on here to hurt him (not knowing they are) by bringing up the nature of the acts over and over again. He already knows what happened and hates it and hates that I deceived him. I just don't want him to suffer anymore and be reminded and tormented by it repeatedly.


So you want all of us to be complicit in rug sweeping this whole thing so it will just go away for you? Nice! Never gonna happen, sorry. That would be the equivalent of allowing Rocket to bleed out while we sat by and did nothing.

The rest of your post seemed to be the same old 'me' centric stuff. "Look at all I have done. Why won't he just forget what I did?" Everything you post seems to boil down to being manipulative or pressuring him to drop it. As told to you over and over ,that will never work.






PM1 said:


> What made me find my password and log in though is your quote above. I just do not think you understand that it is completely possible that having another man's **** in your mouth is enough to end your marriage forever. It may not matter whether you did or did not do more. What if you polygraph and pass and Rocket still cannot get past it? Your photo showed a very pretty woman, but speaking for myself, if you were my wife I would not ever see your lips again without horrible visions going off in my head. *EVERY time you kiss him, that may be happening. *
> 
> Perhaps if you truly let that sink in (and no need to say it has), you can actually heal and move on. Good luck to you both, however it goes.


 ^This is spot on.^
I would expect that everytime Sofa has kissed him since, he now feels as if he has had the OM's **** in his mouth. She doesn't get that and I'm not sure she ever will. I know that's how I would feel, and the mind movies would be torturous.


----------



## just got it 55

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> IMO a big part of being a remorseful cheaters is respecting the BS if he or she decides to just divorce. No guilt trips, no manipulation, no begging.
> *IF* rocket has decided on divorce then let him do so in peace, as he should also let her move on in peace. Help provide an amicable and fair divorce for both and focus on repairing your own life without them.
> 
> Sofa, I still suggest you start your own form of a 180 to detach and move your focus to your own life and not one with your husband.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofa Sleeper View Post
The need to defend myself is because I feel like I have been wrongfully accused (and I really HAVE BEEN) for the extent of the affairs. So much has been assumed that is completely inaccurate and that really is just frustrating especially when I know it's not true. I have been misread and misunderstood and it has hurt. I have been called names and drug through the mud here and it hurts when I know what's in my heart....all of it...the good and the bad, but it's being misconstrued or compared to every other wayward spouse.

T Sofa had me back agian right up until this

55


----------



## Rocket Skates76

@Sofa
I'm going to keep this on my own thread and not post on yours. 

I have been urging you, I have text to prove it, to move up where your support system is. Say what You want. I'm not using these forums to argue with you. 

The question is why am I encouraged you to move? You know that's no easy thing for me because four little children will be missing their daddy. 
So why? You're 100% ultimate goal is reconciliation. I'm not discounting your post event experiences but in reality you're only motivation for staying would be on the hope that we would reunite. And you've already heard 1 million times that is what is sabotaging you. 

You say it's for the children. Somewhat maybe.

You will not give me peace nor rest I guarantee it if you remain here. 

You are avoiding rock bottom. 

You say you don't like the uncertainty, you don't like the fear and that's understandable. For a year and a half you really enjoyed those other feelings though. I can't help you in this. And I won't make you move. 
But you have a strong best friend a strong mother a good circle of friends Waymore than you have here. You're number one priority should be your self and our children. End of story.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rocket Skates76 said:


> @Sofa
> I'm going to keep this on my own thread and not post on yours.
> 
> I have been urging you, I have text to prove it, to move up where your support system is. Say what You want. I'm not using these forums to argue with you.
> 
> The question is why am I encouraged you to move? You know that's no easy thing for me because four little children will be missing their daddy.
> So why? You're 100% ultimate goal is reconciliation. I'm not discounting your post event experiences but in reality you're only motivation for staying would be on the hope that we would reunite. And you've already heard 1 million times that is what is sabotaging you.
> 
> You say it's for the children. Somewhat maybe.
> 
> You will not give me peace nor rest I guarantee it if you remain here.
> 
> You are avoiding rock bottom.
> 
> You say you don't like the uncertainty, you don't like the fear and that's understandable. For a year and a half you really enjoyed those other feelings though. I can't help you in this. And I won't make you move.
> But you have a strong best friend a strong mother a good circle of friends Waymore than you have here. You're number one priority should be your self and our children. End of story.


 I think that is pretty clear. Good comms rocket.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Rocket- I'm sure it's one of the hardest things to say knowing you will be away from your children. 

My brother had to let his children move far away to remove drama and toxic energy from everyone's lives. It is hard but they FaceTime and see each other when they can. 
Overall everyone is thriving and that was the ultimate goal. 

If this is what you think is best, I think sofa should respect that. I understand you not being able to tell her to go, but I hope she understands and respects your wishes.


----------



## aine

Rubix Cubed said:


> So you want all of us to be complicit in rug sweeping this whole thing so it will just go away for you? Nice! Never gonna happen, sorry. That would be the equivalent of allowing Rocket to bleed out while we sat by and did nothing.
> 
> The rest of your post seemed to be the same old 'me' centric stuff. "Look at all I have done. Why won't he just forget what I did?" Everything you post seems to boil down to being manipulative or pressuring him to drop it. As told to you over and over ,that will never work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^This is spot on.^
> I would expect that everytime Sofa has kissed him since, he now feels as if he has had the OM's **** in his mouth. She doesn't get that and I'm not sure she ever will. I know that's how I would feel, and the mind movies would be torturous.


What I cannot understand is that if happened more than once, I would have thought a cheater would learn from the first time they put a nuclear bomb in their marriage what the consequences were? The delusion or unwillingness to actual put themselves in the shoes of the BS is mind boggling. I thought eh WS was getting it from her thread but there is so much defensiveness here, not the approach at all. A WS does not have a leg to stand on, they should just put their hands up and say do with me what you will, you do not have a say in what happens to your marriage, to Rocket, to your future, it is all in his hands, and if you do not like that, want to become defensive etc. then it will be more painful for you.


----------



## Jasminka

Rocket Skates76 said:


> @Sofa
> I'm going to keep this on my own thread and not post on yours.
> 
> I have been urging you, I have text to prove it, to move up where your support system is. Say what You want. I'm not using these forums to argue with you.
> 
> The question is why am I encouraged you to move? You know that's no easy thing for me because four little children will be missing their daddy.
> So why? You're 100% ultimate goal is reconciliation. I'm not discounting your post event experiences but in reality you're only motivation for staying would be on the hope that we would reunite. And you've already heard 1 million times that is what is sabotaging you.
> 
> You say it's for the children. Somewhat maybe.
> 
> You will not give me peace nor rest I guarantee it if you remain here.
> 
> You are avoiding rock bottom.
> 
> You say you don't like the uncertainty, you don't like the fear and that's understandable. For a year and a half you really enjoyed those other feelings though. I can't help you in this. And I won't make you move.
> But you have a strong best friend a strong mother a good circle of friends Waymore than you have here. You're number one priority should be your self and our children. End of story.


Hi Rocket, please forgive the intrusion. This is the first thread I comment on outside of my own thread on TAM because if I couldn't sort my own sh*t, who am I to comment on someone else's... But I couldn't stay oblivious to the latest developments. I'm speaking from painful experience as a now adult whose father moved across an ocean when I was a child. You are hurting terribly and triggering from seeing Sofa, and for your short-term mental peace of mind the easier thing to do would be her moving far away... But encouraging and/or letting Sofa move with the kids across 2 states is the worst mistake you could do for the long term. You'll become a stranger to your children who are now in their formative years, who need you more than they need their grandma or their mom's support system, and they will harbor resentment towards you even if they don't show it. 

I am a 29 year old woman, married with 2 children. My parents separated when I was 2 years old (not related to infidelity) , my mom RIP moved to be near her parents, my father moved near his relatives. He called, he wrote letters often, he even tried to reconcile with my mom (though without suggesting to move to where we were, only for her to move where he lived), but every single time I talked to him I felt anger and resentment for the person who abandoned me. I hated him, even though my mom had never said anything bad about him, in fact, she repeatedly told me he was a good person but that they separated due to circumstances and incompatibility. My grandpa who lived nearby was my father figure, and what a role model he was: a true family man who would do anything for his family, an alpha man, jack of all trades who had a ton of friends, the most social and noticeable man in a hall full with thousand of men ... But he wasn't a replacement for my father! I envied kids who had a real relationship with their fathers (that is whose father lives in the same house or close enough). 

I couldn't fathom why my father took care and lived with his new wife's children, yet he is fine living thousands of miles away from his daughter. We met several times during my childhood and teenage years but he was a stranger to me. 

Anyway, fast forward to the present. Several months ago I moved to his country with my husband and children. Ironically, we now live 15 minutes away from him. He visits every week, he calls every day and we were warmly welcomed by his family. I like his wife, I became friends with her daughter, but to me he is still the stranger who abandoned me. I'm an adult now, I can rationalize and understand the logic of why they separated and moved far away from each other, I'm not angry anymore, but he'll forever be the stranger who wasn't there during my formative years and who chose to raise other kids. I don't harbor absolutely any resentment towards his wife or family, they haven't done anything to me, but I do for him as he had a choice- not about the divorce, this was inevitable for them, but about the distance from me. 

He thinks things are wonderful between us and doesn't know anything is wrong. I've never shown my anger and I'll never talk about it with him. No one knows about it other than my husband and close friends. Over the years I met quite a few children or people who were in similar situations: a father or mother who moved far away, either abandoned them completely or visited once a month / several months or once a year... Those kids pretended to be tough but they were hurt badly and could never really forgive or forget...

Rocket, I'm not sure of your plan: if you're thinking of visiting every weekend, I doubt it will last for long as it is a 7 hour drive. It will then dwindle into once in two weeks, then once a month, and you'll become a stranger to those kids before you notice it... And they won't tell you because children are tougher than you think, and by the time they tell you, it will be too late. Frequent phone calls and video calls are no replacement for living close to a father. 

You hate seeing Sofa now and want this drama as far away from you as possible, but you can do the 180, detach and divorce without having to move the children across 2 states.


----------



## Rocket Skates76

Jasminka,
I really appreciate your post, thank you for your candor and conviction. It's no intrusion at all. 
Yeah, rock and a hard place.


----------



## Openminded

Many years ago I faced a choice. Stay with a cheater and try to rebuild my marriage or return home, two states away, to my support system. I stayed for my child. My "reward" (years down the road) for trying to rebuild my marriage was that my husband cheated again. And my child, as an adult, feels I should have left when my husband first cheated. My story is why I very rarely support R (although I acknowledge that some are successful). Children are the big losers when a parent cheats. And they should be the primary consideration IMO.


----------



## Satya

Openminded said:


> Many years ago I faced a choice. Stay with a cheater and try to rebuild my marriage or return home, two states away, to my support system. I stayed for my child. My "reward" (years down the road) for trying to rebuild my marriage was that my husband cheated again. And my child, as an adult, feels I should have left when my husband first cheated. My story is why I very rarely support R (although I acknowledge that some are successful). Children are the big losers when a parent cheats. And they should be the primary consideration IMO.


Agree, with a caveat @Openminded :

You (your health, sanity, etc) should be first, because those children depend on you being at your best.

Your children are closest second.

Best guidance is to put your own oxygen mask on first before the childrens'

Your child knew that.

I told my mom when I was 30 that I was upset she didn't leave my father, but rather stayed in a very unhappy and mentally abusive marriage until he passed. We (her kids) struggled with her angry and bitter attitude for years... My siblings needed therapy (much improved now) and there was a lot of damage done that could have been avoided.

Not comparing, just expressing I was just like your kid. My poor mom when I told her. It was hard for her to hear but necessary. 

She's learned and is happy again, as I hope you are.


----------



## Jasminka

Satya and Openminded, I didn't say anything about reconciliation. You both mentioned cases where your mother reconciled with a cheater. Sofa has an option of staying nearby without ripping their children from their father. Yes, it will be harder for Rocket at the beginning because she will obviously put him through a lot of drama, but you can do the 180, detach and divorce without having to detach from your children as well. In some cases moving closer to a support system is unavoidable, e.g. if the person in question doesn't have a job or if they can't survive on their own income, but it doesn't seem to be the case here.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Jasminka said:


> Satya and Openminded, I didn't say anything about reconciliation. You both mentioned cases where your mother reconciled with a cheater. Sofa has an option of staying nearby without ripping their children from their father. Yes, it will be harder for Rocket at the beginning because she will obviously put him through a lot of drama, but you can do the 180, detach and divorce without having to detach from your children as well. In some cases moving closer to a support system is unavoidable, e.g. if the person in question doesn't have a job or if they can't survive on their own income, but it doesn't seem to be the case here.


Yes, after reading her side I agree that it would be A lot of work and uprooting to leave and the better option is staying. I get why he wants the space. I feel for both their sides and I understand them both. They both need to 180 and focus on their own lives.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Jasminka said:


> Satya and Openminded, I didn't say anything about reconciliation. You both mentioned cases where your mother reconciled with a cheater. Sofa has an option of staying nearby without *ripping their children from their father*. Yes, it will be harder for Rocket at the beginning because she will obviously put him through a lot of drama, but you can do the 180, detach and divorce without having to detach from your children as well. In some cases moving closer to a support system is unavoidable, e.g. if the person in question doesn't have a job or if they can't survive on their own income, but it doesn't seem to be the case here.


Nice try. Rocket is more than willing for Sofa to move his children away. He has no problem with it AT ALL.


----------



## turnera

Jasminka brings up a good point, though. If he's sending them away because he doesn't want to deal with Sofa's drama, then it's true that he could merely put restrictions on how she is able to contact him, and then he could still see his kids all the time. It would require him being stronger, a little more forceful, to make sure she doesn't crowd him.

If it's because she's a basketcase and NEEDS her family's support, that's another story.

Something to think about, Rocket.


----------



## *Deidre*

I think that the best we can do as people reading a story of people we don't know at all, is to let them feel what they feel. Our advice is based mainly on what we would do, our experiences, and there are so many details left out of these stories, no one can tell the entire day to day story of how they get to where they are in their marriages. I left a message on Sofa's thread, and I'll say the same to you Rocket - life can end in a minute, you don't know if you'll even have tomorrow, so find happiness in yourself and if you're meant to get back together, then it will happen. My only advice would be to make sure you're a constant in your kids' lives, and that may mean your wife can't move away. She should respect staying away from YOU, but I'd find a way for your kids to be able to see you and her as equally as possible. The kids shouldn't suffer without you or their mom, and they will if you're not around often enough. Wishing you the best.


----------



## Openminded

Jasminka said:


> Satya and Openminded, I didn't say anything about reconciliation. You both mentioned cases where your mother reconciled with a cheater. Sofa has an option of staying nearby without ripping their children from their father. Yes, it will be harder for Rocket at the beginning because she will obviously put him through a lot of drama, but you can do the 180, detach and divorce without having to detach from your children as well. In some cases moving closer to a support system is unavoidable, e.g. if the person in question doesn't have a job or if they can't survive on their own income, but it doesn't seem to be the case here.


I wasn't responding to you.


----------



## #beenthere

Jasminka said:


> Rocket Skates76 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Sofa
> I'm going to keep this on my own thread and not post on yours.
> 
> I have been urging you, I have text to prove it, to move up where your support system is. Say what You want. I'm not using these forums to argue with you.
> 
> The question is why am I encouraged you to move? You know that's no easy thing for me because four little children will be missing their daddy.
> So why? You're 100% ultimate goal is reconciliation. I'm not discounting your post event experiences but in reality you're only motivation for staying would be on the hope that we would reunite. And you've already heard 1 million times that is what is sabotaging you.
> 
> You say it's for the children. Somewhat maybe.
> 
> You will not give me peace nor rest I guarantee it if you remain here.
> 
> You are avoiding rock bottom.
> 
> You say you don't like the uncertainty, you don't like the fear and that's understandable. For a year and a half you really enjoyed those other feelings though. I can't help you in this. And I won't make you move.
> But you have a strong best friend a strong mother a good circle of friends Waymore than you have here. You're number one priority should be your self and our children. End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Rocket, please forgive the intrusion. This is the first thread I comment on outside of my own thread on TAM because if I couldn't sort my own sh*t, who am I to comment on someone else's... But I couldn't stay oblivious to the latest developments. I'm speaking from painful experience as a now adult whose father moved across an ocean when I was a child. You are hurting terribly and triggering from seeing Sofa, and for your short-term mental peace of mind the easier thing to do would be her moving far away... But encouraging and/or letting Sofa move with the kids across 2 states is the worst mistake you could do for the long term. You'll become a stranger to your children who are now in their formative years, who need you more than they need their grandma or their mom's support system, and they will harbor resentment towards you even if they don't show it.
> 
> I am a 29 year old woman, married with 2 children. My parents separated when I was 2 years old (not related to infidelity) , my mom RIP moved to be near her parents, my father moved near his relatives. He called, he wrote letters often, he even tried to reconcile with my mom (though without suggesting to move to where we were, only for her to move where he lived), but every single time I talked to him I felt anger and resentment for the person who abandoned me. I hated him, even though my mom had never said anything bad about him, in fact, she repeatedly told me he was a good person but that they separated due to circumstances and incompatibility. My grandpa who lived nearby was my father figure, and what a role model he was: a true family man who would do anything for his family, an alpha man, jack of all trades who had a ton of friends, the most social and noticeable man in a hall full with thousand of men ... But he wasn't a replacement for my father! I envied kids who had a real relationship with their fathers (that is whose father lives in the same house or close enough).
> 
> I couldn't fathom why my father took care and lived with his new wife's children, yet he is fine living thousands of miles away from his daughter. We met several times during my childhood and teenage years but he was a stranger to me.
> 
> Anyway, fast forward to the present. Several months ago I moved to his country with my husband and children. Ironically, we now live 15 minutes away from him. He visits every week, he calls every day and we were warmly welcomed by his family. I like his wife, I became friends with her daughter, but to me he is still the stranger who abandoned me. I'm an adult now, I can rationalize and understand the logic of why they separated and moved far away from each other, I'm not angry anymore, but he'll forever be the stranger who wasn't there during my formative years and who chose to raise other kids. I don't harbor absolutely any resentment towards his wife or family, they haven't done anything to me, but I do for him as he had a choice- not about the divorce, this was inevitable for them, but about the distance from me.
> 
> He thinks things are wonderful between us and doesn't know anything is wrong. I've never shown my anger and I'll never talk about it with him. No one knows about it other than my husband and close friends. Over the years I met quite a few children or people who were in similar situations: a father or mother who moved far away, either abandoned them completely or visited once a month / several months or once a year... Those kids pretended to be tough but they were hurt badly and could never really forgive or forget...
> 
> Rocket, I'm not sure of your plan: if you're thinking of visiting every weekend, I doubt it will last for long as it is a 7 hour drive. It will then dwindle into once in two weeks, then once a month, and you'll become a stranger to those kids before you notice it... And they won't tell you because children are tougher than you think, and by the time they tell you, it will be too late. Frequent phone calls and video calls are no replacement for living close to a father.
> 
> You hate seeing Sofa now and want this drama as far away from you as possible, but you can do the 180, detach and divorce without having to move the children across 2 states.
Click to expand...

Never a good option- your kids need you. It may not be the most comfortable scenario for you, but your kids should be priority- they didnt ask for this, nor do they understand it. Do whats best for them not whats comfortable or easy for you. Youre the adult, you and your wife created this situation, i feel you should act accordingly.


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## turnera

Rocket, clear your PMs.


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## Blondilocks

turnera said:


> Rocket, clear your PMs.


I think I hear Affaircare calling.


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## turnera

lol, nah, no need. Just a one-time reply.


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## thedope

Any update?


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## thedope

Any update on the situation?


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## Walloped

Just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re going through this.


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