# A fight over porn



## rushmore (Jan 24, 2013)

My wife of 8 years and I are in a 3 day fight right now. She's sexually adventurous, and by that I mean we've been to strip clubs together. We've been to swinger's clubs together, but I don't think either of us liked it very much. Occasionally we'll watch porn together. Three days ago we stumbled on point-of-view porn, where the guy holds the camera close to his face and the girl is giving him head while looking up into the camera. It was pretty hot and I'd seen it before, but in the couple of times a month or so that I watch porn I don't ever flock to this genre. 

Well my wife was immediately incensed that I liked it and saw nothing wrong with it because from her perspective, she immediately saw this porn was for a virtual-reality-type fantasy where the viewer could imagine the girl in the scene was going down on the viewer, and to engage in a fantasy like that makes my wife feel unvalued.

Instead of agreeing with her, I began to defend myself that I don't seek out this kind of porn and that I liked it because it was two people in a relationship with one another instead of a bunch of cameramen and lighting directors walking around a set where two people were getting paid to pretend to enjoy themselves. I liked that there was love present and to see a wedding ring.

So we are at a disconnect now. I apologized for not understanding the nature of her hurt and attempted to assuage her hurt by telling her that though the video was hot, it wasn't something I engage in. And indeed, to be a little graphic, I was watching it for the action, not the camera angle, even though the camera angle added a little extra to the scene.

So my wife reached a hard limit that I had no idea was coming. I'm a bit nervous about trying anything new with her because I don't know if a hard limit will jump up and bite her, then bite me. I've been on the sofa for the last three nights and don't feel I've done anything wrong except not understanding her hurt. But this is almost as bad as if I'd cheated on her and in that case I would have clearly known I was doing something wrong.

I want her to know I care about her and that she's special to me and I told her this kind of porn isn't important to me and that even though I didn't see anything wrong with it, I can understand how she sees it and I am happy to drop it completely. 

Any ideas for the immediate concern and way to be sexually adventurous while minimizing the risk of an unknown limit popping up?

Thanks.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

rushmore said:


> Well my wife was immediately incensed that I liked it and saw nothing wrong with it because from her perspective, she immediately saw this porn was for a virtual-reality-type fantasy where the viewer could imagine the girl in the scene was going down on the viewer, and to engage in a fantasy like that makes my wife feel unvalued.


Your wife had a feeling. People have all kinds of feelings for all kinds of reasons. Some of them are valid. Some of them are stupid. Don't try to make sense out of it.



rushmore said:


> Instead of agreeing with her, I began to defend myself that I don't seek out this kind of porn and that I liked it because it was two people in a relationship with one another instead of a bunch of cameramen and lighting directors walking around a set where two people were getting paid to pretend to enjoy themselves. I liked that there was love present and to see a wedding ring.


You were trying to find the "truth" in a porno. That's an absurd exercise. Point-of-view porn is just as fake as traditional porn. The people are still paid. They still walk away from each other when the scene is over.

What you should have done is to acknowledge her feelings and tell her how the scene made you feel. How you feel is impossible to argue against. Your wife would have been stupid, and felt stupid, to try.



rushmore said:


> So we are at a disconnect now. I apologized for not understanding the nature of her hurt and attempted to assuage her hurt by telling her that though the video was hot, it wasn't something I engage in.


So now, you have accepted her feelings as more valid than your feelings. That's a dangerous thing.



rushmore said:


> So my wife reached a hard limit that I had no idea was coming. I'm a bit nervous about trying anything new with her because I don't know if a hard limit will jump up and bite her, then bite me.


If you view both your feelings as equal, then you wouldn't worry about it. You try something new. If she likes it, great. If she doesn't, that's fine.

But once you've allowed that she determines how you should feel and behave, then you're right to be nervous. Who knows when she'll play that card? Maybe she'll be reasonable with that power. Maybe she won't. It's certainly a mine field.



rushmore said:


> I've been on the sofa for the last three nights and don't feel I've done anything wrong except not understanding her hurt. But this is almost as bad as if I'd cheated on her and in that case I would have clearly known I was doing something wrong.


No, no, no! You don't allow your wife to kick you out of your bed because she doesn't enjoy she same kind of porn that you do. That's just stupid.



rushmore said:


> I want her to know I care about her and that she's special to me and I told her this kind of porn isn't important to me and that even though I didn't see anything wrong with it, I can understand how she sees it and I am happy to drop it completely.


Well, that's not exactly working for you, is it? This entire episode is what is known as a "sh!t test." Your wife may have been legitimately upset for valid, or invalid, reasons. But at this point, she's just seeing how much of her sh!t you will take. And you're taking loads of it. You should stop.

You would be much more attractive to your wife is you refused to take her sh!t. You should announce to your wife, ASAP, that you understand that she doesn't like that kind of porn. Tell her that you accept that and you will happily watch other kinds of porn when you are with her. Tell her that you are sleeping in your own bed tonight. If she is still too upset to sleep with you, you understand and the couch is available for her. Then, you let it go.

Don't engage her on what is true and what is fake in porn. It's all fake. Don't engage her on whether her feelings are more important than your feelings. You have yours, she has hers. Just let it go.

She will probably stew for a few hours and then she will also let it go.

Good luck.


----------



## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

great answer PHTLump. Rushmore, your wife is out of control and manipulative, and a bit nutso. This is what she's carrying on about and kicking you to the couch, AND YOU'RE ACQUIESCING??? You let her know that this is unacceptable right now or your self-esteem and marriage is doomed. This is just the beginning of her manipulation of you. This is how she behaves when you feel differently than her? She has a major major meltdown? If you don't deal with this differently then you are in for a life of constantly trying to make peace with your wife. 

I recently read a few threads here where the wife is like a raging madwomen when the husband "gets out of line" or doesn't do exactly as she says. These guys are miserable and falling apart.


----------



## rushmore (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks you two for pulling me out of the trees so I can see the forest. Best wishes.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Two issues...

First, the porn, or actually ANYTHING in life where there are no set boundaries. For example, spending. I can buy whatever I want within reason. "Within reason" isn't a boundary. So if I go out and spend $1,000 without discussing it with my wife (we can't afford spending $1,000 on just anything), I have crossed a boundary without knowing it. Where that boundary is no one knows. Can I spend $100? $500? $999?

In your case it was a type of porn. You had the green light to watch porn and when you crossed the invisible line, she called you on it. When we cross that invisible line, the right thing to do is calmly establish that you went over the line and agree that you did. "Thanks, honey. It won't happen again." 

The other issue is her reaction. You've apologized ("Thanks, honey. It won't happen again.") yet she carries on the fight. You need to reinforce that you have apologized and moved on and return to the bedroom. If she doesn't want to sleep with you, she can choose to sleep elsewhere.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> In your case it was a type of porn. You had the green light to watch porn and when you crossed the invisible line, she called you on it. When we cross that invisible line, the right thing to do is calmly establish that you went over the line and agree that you did. "Thanks, honey. It won't happen again."


I would require one more thing. Those invisible lines work OK if everyone knows _about_ where they lie. However, once crossed, it becomes clear that this fuzzy understanding might not be good enough, especially given the near-apocalyptic reaction from the wife. 

My next act would be to gather more information on where the line really lies and the expected consequences for crossing it again, which is certain to happen if it remains fuzzy. Is the line on porn something that could be put on paper, or is it like the old Supreme Court canard "I'll know it when I see it?". Do I need to call down the wife to preview and OK any new interests I gain in specific types of pornography? 

Or is this just an example of the fuzzy line approach not actually matching reality for this specific issue in the marriage? Maybe they're OK on the spending money problem but need a different approach on the porn.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Your wife had a feeling. People have all kinds of feelings for all kinds of reasons. Some of them are valid. Some of them are stupid. Don't try to make sense out of it.
> 
> 
> You were trying to find the "truth" in a porno. That's an absurd exercise. Point-of-view porn is just as fake as traditional porn. The people are still paid. They still walk away from each other when the scene is over.
> ...


Lock the thread. This says it all.


----------



## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

ChrisTayler, who knew that there even was a boundary in porn. That's like saying there's a boundary in what kind of scary movies he can like. There's no such a boundary when it comes to personal taste. He can be sorry that she feels that way, but he doesn't have to be sorry about liking a stupid camera angle. She is a completely out of control controlling person. I would be so scared to live with a person like this. I'd have to walk on eggshells wondering what imaginary contrived boundary she's creating today that I have to apologize for.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> In your case it was a type of porn. You had the green light to watch porn and when you crossed the invisible line, she called you on it. When we cross that invisible line, the right thing to do is calmly establish that you went over the line and agree that you did. "Thanks, honey. It won't happen again."


That would never happen in my house. The "green light" to watch porn? Crossing invisible lines? Being "called out" like a child? Apologizing?

Oh, absolutely not. Unless I expressly promised to stay away from x, y, or z porn, or we both mutually agreed on boundaries upfront, there would be none of this at all. This man did nothing wrong in this situation worthy of having his hand slapped, an needing to make amends.


----------

