# Why should I?



## Badblood

I need help with a major decision. My wife and I have been married for 15 years, and co-workers for 18 years. We met at work and were attracted to each other, but were married to other people. We both did the honest thing, and divorced our spouses, and got married. For the first 10 years we had one of the best marriages I've ever seen. We work in industrial sales and merchandizing, so we sometimes have to be apart. Usually about a week or less, a month. I trusted her completely and she did me, so there were never any issues. The times we were together were wonderful. About the first of Sept. I decided, on a whim, that I would go to where she was (Atlanta) and surprise her with a romantic, weekend. I've never done this before, without informing her, beforehand. I got to her hotel , and asked the desk clerk what her room number was, and he told me that Mr. AND Mrs. Smith were up in THEIR room. (Smith isn't our name, I'm just using it to illustrate). I went to the room and she came to the door in a man's robe. I brushed past her and in bed was another man. I left, and flew home. She called me , almost before I left the hotel, crying , and said that she was guilty of having an affair for several months with this other guy, but it meant nothing to her, just a way of not being lonely when we were apart. I didn't and don't buy any of it. Since that night, I've only spoken to her on the phone or e-mail. She has vowed to be completely honest , in the future, has ended the affair (so she says), and is willing to do whatever I want to reconcile. Both families want us to get back together, and are pressuring me to give her another chance. MY question is , Why should I? WE both had a child in our previous marriages, and they are both grown up and on their own. We are both fairly young, middle age, me-45 and her- 43. I know I can get another woman, so why should I even try?


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## Arnold

I think it best to divorce. Trust is gone.
BTW, how is it that while married, you two both allowed yourselves to fall in love? Didn't that require contact, flirting, and cultivating the feelings while still married? I ask because relationships born out of infidelity seem to often follow the course yours has. The old "if they will cheat with you, they will cheat on you "deal.


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## Chaparral

If I read this right you married a cheater and youexpected a different outcome,no?


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## Badblood

Neither of us cheated, before . We worked together, in the same office, and during normal daily routine, realized that we had a lot in common, but we were scrupulous in not flirting or anything until after our divorces. Hers was final, before mine was, so during that time, we had as little contact as possible.


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## Bartimaus

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

With Chapparal


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## PHTlump

It depends on whether your wife is remorseful (it seems like she is), whether you can forgive (a question), and whether you both are willing to change your behaviors to improve your marriage.

A common metric for completely getting over an affair is 2-5 years. That's a long time to stick things out when you don't have children (the most common reason for reconciling). But, many who successfully reconcile say their marriage is stronger, and they are happier, than before D-Day.

Good luck.


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## Badblood

Had it been a ONS, I might have considered it, but this has been going on since June, when she transfered to ATlanta. But now, with this revelation, how do I know that this is the only guy? She swears that this is the only guy, and that they had sex only 4 or 5 times, mostly they just went to dinner, etc.


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## Jellybeans

Who is he? Is he married? What do u want to do?


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## PHTlump

You can never know for sure.

Even if she tells you the story of the affair, swears that it's the entire truth, gives you access to her computers, phone, email, etc., and takes a polygraph, there's still a chance that something more happened.

Most spouses who reconcile decide that there's not much difference between having sex 5 times or 10 times. And it's not that important whether she used position X or Y. If you can forgive one time, you may be able to forgive two. And if you can forgive two, then maybe you can forgive four.

However, one problem with reconciliation is that true remorse sounds a lot like false remorse. One place where your wife has departed from the standard script of a cheater that was caught is that she immediately confessed to an extended affair. Most cheaters only confess to what you can prove and slowly trickle the truth out when you can independently prove more than she has already admitted to. So, the fact that your wife didn't insist that you happened to walk in on their first encounter, and they hadn't even started yet, may indicate that she's truly remorseful.


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## bryanp

She is a piece of work. She said she has been having a sexual affair with her lover since June and putting your health at risk for STD's because she was lonely when she was apart from you?......Oh Please.
How would she be feeling if the roles were reversed?

She has been having sex with this guy since June so clearly she knew exactly what she was doing and thought she could get away with it. Now that she is caught she says she is sorry. She is only sorry for being caught. You would be quite foolish to stay with her now.

If you stay with her what kind of message would you be sending her: It is O.K. to have a lover for 5 months and humiliate and disrespect your marriage and husband. If you believe that they have only had sex 4 or 5 times then I have a bridge to sell you.
You deserve better than to be with a cheating spouse who played you for such a fool. I wish you luck.


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## Entropy3000

She may not have cheated with you but she was unfaithful. Her vows mean nothing.


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## bryanp

One more thing I forgot to mention. I will assume that her lover is married. It is absolutely essential that you expose this affair to his wife. If the roles were reversed wouldn't you want to know.

I would not believe anything your wife is saying. She is in damage control right now. Why in the hell would you want to be married to a woman that has had a lover for the past 4 month behind your back?. It is clear that she has no respect for you or your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Entropy3000

Badblood said:


> Had it been a ONS, I might have considered it, but this has been going on since June, when she transfered to ATlanta. But now, with this revelation, *how do I know that this is the only guy?* She swears that this is the only guy, and that they had sex only 4 or 5 times, mostly they just went to dinner, etc.


You don't. Move on. Run away.


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## CH

You don't have to take her back. I told my wife if it was me I would have left that very second. To take someone back after an Affair takes someone with a big heart, and I don't fit that description, my wife does.

Guess she's a better person than I am.


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## morituri

Being apart a week or less is not sufficient time to feel lonely to take on a lover for several months and if she was then it was her responsibility to let you know how she felt and let her employer know that she was not going to go on business travels anymore.



> Both families want us to get back together, and are pressuring me to give her another chance. MY question is , Why should I? WE both had a child in our previous marriages, and they are both grown up and on their own. We are both fairly young, middle age, me-45 and her- 43. I know I can get another woman, so why should I even try?


Don't let your families dictate what YOU need to do in order to emotionally heal. They can't possibly understand the depth of your devastation.

In the Japan Tsunami, many people were killed, others injured severely and others had hardly a scratched on them. That is how infidelity hits people. In my case, it was a mortal wound to my marriage. Just like your wife, my wife cried and begged me on her hands and knees not to leave her and divorce her. But divorce brought me a pain akin to severing a limb without anesthesia, nevertheless I went ahead with it so that I could emotionally heal.

Do what you think it's best for you.


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## jnj express

Hey Bad---even a ONS, is no reason for you to let her off the hook

She knew what she was doing every step of the way---and You shouldn't buy her excuse of lonely on the road, one little bit

She wanted this other guy, and was going to have her A., she knew she would never be caught.

What is hard for you is the thought of her coming home to you night after night looking you square in the eyes, and saying everything is great---that is in of itself, lying by OMMISSION.

She was giving you sloppy seconds, and I promise you all her thoughts day after day, where about how fast she could get back to her lover

She has put you in a situation, where you now may never trust a woman again, you have lost your peace of mind, your carefree days are gone---replaced by visions of her with another man inside of her

No you don't need to continue this mge., with a woman, who thinks so little of you----had you not sprung your little surprise, her A., could have gone on for years, you would never have known---and in all honesty, this guy may not have been her only lover---she had an A. with this guy---why not others, you never will know

Best file your D., and move on----

If she stayed, she would have to give up her job, cuz how could you ever allow her to go out on the road---If you are intending D., make sure she keeps her job, so you don't have to pay alimony


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## sadcalifornian

Dump her! 

She is a serial cheater, once with you and the 2nd time with this OM. Setting aside this being an affairage, she cannot be trusted. I have a feeling she has more indescretion than this if you dig deep enough. Demand poly and see what she says.


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## Badblood

I know very little about the other man. He is a black guy about 50, who looks much older than me, with gray almost white hair, but about the same size. When he saw me coming into the room he ran into the bathroom and locked the door. IDK if he's married or single, and have not asked my wife, nor do I intend to. I kind of resent those who say that she and I were cheaters to our previous spouses. We did NOTHING even remotely unfaithful. No kisses, sex, texts, phone-calls or private conversations . Nothing but everyday work stuff. We were both in troubled marriages, and the only thing I thought was that she was someone I could go for, IF I weren't married. My first wife was well aware of her, and didn't care as long as we got a divorce.


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## sadcalifornian

Well, I misunderstood. I apologize. Since you mention the OM's ethnicity, are you guys all in the same ethnic group?


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## lordmayhem

I can see where you're coming from. This was just an ONS, this is a full blown affair. Beware of Trickle Truth, where the WS tries to minimize what they have done. I'm surprised she admitted to ONLY 4-5 times, usually they will only admit to one time, or going to the hotel just to "talk". 

You know that it's been more than 4-5 times, in fact, she knows exactly how many times they did it. And being away is absolutely know excuse to cheat. Add the fact that you don't know how many times she's been unfaithful. She is a woman that has basically little to no personal boundaries. Right now, you're her back up plan, she's cake eating. She wants the security of marriage, but be able to cheat when she feels like it. 

Realize that this just may be a deal breaker for you. Many simply do not recover from a betrayal like this. There is no shame in that. Your family who want you to R probably haven't experienced anything like this. You have no kids together. My advice for people who have no kids together is usually to just go ahead and D. 

So why should you R? It's up to you. But right now, she's still in the affair and she's still working away from home. That's a major obstacle because you will have no way of verifying that the affair is over or if there are more to come. You also have no way of verifying that she goes NC with the OM. IF, and that's a big IF, you decide she's worth the extremely hard effort to R, she's going to have to make major concessions to save the marriage. Also, it's going to take you a long time to recover, on the order of 2-5 years. She will have to:


Give up the current job, at the minimum, have a job close to home or in the same city
Willingly give up any and all passwords to all email, bank accounts, social networking sites - BE TRANSPARENT
Willingly give up access to her phone
Immediately go No Contact (NC) with OM and write a NC letter to him
Go to MC immediately
Get tested for STDs


On your side of the R, you will have to:

Be willing to move on
Monitor her using computer monitoring software, cell phone monitoring software (if applicable), and VARs
Get tested for STDs
MC if applicable

R is difficult even under the best of circumstances because trust has been destroyed. Monitoring her will help to rebuild trust in some situations, but it's difficult. Only a third of marriages survive infidelity, and of those, only 6 percent actually end up really being okay. 

So the question is: Do you think you will be able to regain trust in her IF she's willing to go all out and save the marriage? Is this a deal breaker for you? Is she willing to be transparent and go NC with OM? Is she willing to do the heavy lifting on her part? What I mean by that is she willing to do all of the above? You should consider these questions when deciding to R or D.


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## Badblood

sadcalifornian said:


> Well, I misunderstood. I apologize. Since you mention the OM's ethnicity, are you guys all in the same ethnic group?


Sort of. I am mixed race....Hispanic (Cuban) and Caucasian, my wife is Afro-American/Korean.


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## Badblood

Lord, she called tonight and is willing to do all of the things you mentioned, including a polygraph. She has asked and recieved a transfer from the Atlanta route to a route in Western PA (Pittsburgh), and has sworn she has ended ALL contact with the OM. She is home now, at her mother's, because I wouldn't allow her to stay in my house, it is in my name alone. I don't have any idea if or when I could ever trust her again to be faithful, and I also don't know if I would ever be able to have sex with her, after what she has done. Right now, she is tainted, and I am filled with disgust. I feel that IF she has told me the truth, and if everything is as she has said, I am STILL going to have to work hard to reconcile. Many of you posters and many sites I've visited have given the 2-5 year standard for recovery, and I'm trying to find out if I want to go through that struggle or not.


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## lordmayhem

Badblood said:


> Lord, she called tonight and is willing to do all of the things you mentioned, including a polygraph. She has asked and recieved a transfer from the Atlanta route to a route in Western PA (Pittsburgh), and has sworn she has ended ALL contact with the OM. She is home now, at her mother's, because I wouldn't allow her to stay in my house, it is in my name alone. I don't have any idea if or when I could ever trust her again to be faithful, and I also don't know if I would ever be able to have sex with her, after what she has done. Right now, she is tainted, and I am filled with disgust. I feel that IF she has told me the truth, and if everything is as she has said, I am STILL going to have to work hard to reconcile. Many of you posters and many sites I've visited have given the 2-5 year standard for recovery, and I'm trying to find out if I want to go through that struggle or not.


For many, including myself, a PA is a deal breaker. My first wife cheated on me, and I could not get over the "mind movies", the thoughts and images of them being together and the possible sexual acts they had done. My current fWW had an EA, and if it had gone PA, I would not even consider R, even if she's willing to do the heavy lifting for R, because I don't want to go through the mind movies again. Giving her heart to an OM is bad enough without adding the mind movies as the result of a PA. But that's me. For you it may be different. There are others here who are willing to R with their WS even if they gave birth to someone else's child. 

Do you have it in you to go through the difficult struggle of R? Do you think she's worth it? Only you can answer these questions.


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## jnj express

Hey Bad---what you must decide is if you can ever touch her again---can you stand to be with/look at her again---and do you really have anything to say to her

What kind of a mge. in all reality will the 2 of you have---I don't know what she could say to you, her saying she loves you, is a total crock---one who loves another, does not destroy their life, by comminting adultery---so what do you really have left with this woman?????

If you have serious doubts, then move on---it doesn't matter what family says---this is about your life, you and you alone have to live in your shoes---so make it the best possible life for you---no one else is gonna deal with your problems---so no matter what they say/want, they are meaningless---this is about you.


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## morituri

As you said, a ONS can be understood but a multy month long affair?

I can't tell you what to do but as you already know that R takes anywhere from 2 to 5 years and enduring the dreaded emotional roller coaster. Can you handle that?

I forgave my ex-wife but chose not to reconcile with her and divorce her. Are you able to do the same?


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## Initfortheduration

Since she didn't quit out of guilt, but discovery. You can't believe a word she says. Unless its an exit affair, which it does not appear to be, she would still be doing this guy. Do you have any doubts? So the only reason she is stopping is not because of any personal remorse. But because she thought she could do it and never get caught. Would you bet a second time on her?


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## Badblood

I hear what all of you have been saying, and appreciate the feedback. Right now, I don't want to put the effort into reconciling with her, and have decided to begin divorce proceedings. I told her this morning. She cried, of course, then told me that she was so, so, sorry, and would do whatever she can to help with MY recovery, even if I can never be with her again. She said that , if I chose to give her another chance, that it would be all about me, and she would PROVE her honesty, fidelity, and love, and would go to the wall for our marriage. IDK how I will feel in a few months, but right now I can't believe her. She has already taken steps to show her remorse. She showed me the NC e-mail she is sending him, and gave me a list of Polygraph examiners in our area, and said that she didn't have un-protected sex with him. She also said that they actually had full intercourse 5 times, and that she never gave him oral.


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## Jellybeans

I know you said you don't care or you didn't know if he was married or not but the thing is, if he is, you should expose him to his wife.

I am sorry this happened. Good luck.


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## bryanp

If she loves you so much why was she screwing another man behind your back? Clearly it shows that she had no respect for you. If you give her another chance she will probably have even less respect for you. You will be sending her a message that she has a husband who allowed her to screw another man at least 5 different times without any consequences to her actions. Why would she respect you for this? My friend you can do a lot better.


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## jnj express

Hey Bad---start your D proceedings, and see what happens---if she can somehow convince you to try a R.---you can always halt the D.

I would have to question her reason for wanting to stay----is it cuz she really loves you---if so she has a wierd way of showing it---by wrecking the mge., and your life----it just may be that she is scared shi*less of having to be on her own as in single divorced adultress---now having to pay all her own expenses, and working a couple of jobs just to break even

Its too bad she threw it all away---she will regret what she did, everyday for the rest of her life---but it was a choice she made, now she gets to live with her choice!!!!!


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## sadcalifornian

Some people just live for the moment without thinking about the ramification of their actions. She seems to love you, and yet she does this.... Just crazy.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

I would move on. I think a fresh new relationship is what you need. Not a relationship that was born out of when you were both still married. I would like to believe you but I seriously doubt you both left your first marriages after you guys had nothing but conversation.


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## Deejo

What do you want to do?


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## Jellybeans

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> I would move on. I think a fresh new relationship is what you need. Not a relationship that was born out of when you were both still married. I would like to believe you but I seriously doubt you both left your first marriages after you guys had nothing but conversation.


I agree w this. Seems like there's more to it. Nonetheles...OP needs to decide what he wants.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

Badblood said:


> I hear what all of you have been saying, and appreciate the feedback. Right now, I don't want to put the effort into reconciling with her, and have decided to begin divorce proceedings. I told her this morning. She cried, of course, then told me that she was so, so, sorry, and would do whatever she can to help with MY recovery, even if I can never be with her again. She said that , if I chose to give her another chance, that it would be all about me, and she would PROVE her honesty, fidelity, and love, and would go to the wall for our marriage. IDK how I will feel in a few months, but right now I can't believe her. She has already taken steps to show her remorse. She showed me the NC e-mail she is sending him, and gave me a list of Polygraph examiners in our area, and said that she didn't have un-protected sex with him. She also said that they actually had full intercourse 5 times, and that she never gave him oral.



She's in "survival mode" and will say or do anything to keep the status quo. 

You should find out who the OM is and tell his wife. The OMW deserves to know.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> I hear what all of you have been saying, and appreciate the feedback. Right now, I don't want to put the effort into reconciling with her, and have decided to begin divorce proceedings. I told her this morning. She cried, of course, then told me that she was so, so, sorry, and would do whatever she can to help with MY recovery, even if I can never be with her again. She said that , if I chose to give her another chance, that it would be all about me, and she would PROVE her honesty, fidelity, and love, and would go to the wall for our marriage. IDK how I will feel in a few months, but right now I can't believe her. She has already taken steps to show her remorse. She showed me the NC e-mail she is sending him, and gave me a list of Polygraph examiners in our area, and said that she didn't have un-protected sex with him. She also said that they actually had full intercourse 5 times, and that she never gave him oral.


Your story hits so close to home because just like your cheating wife, my ex-wife was always very kind, loving and she often initiated sex - 6 times a week. There was no indication that there was something wrong with her or us that would cause her to cheat on me. Like you, the discovery of her affair - via a video file I found on her photobucket account - sucker punched me completely.

A few months ago I learned from a mutual friend that a close relative of my ex-wife told her that when my ex-W was a teenager she was repeatedly raped by a male cousin. My ex-W never revealed this tragic ordeal of her past during all the time we were together. I've talked with rape counselors who told me that many rape survivors often become unfaithful spouses later on in life. I wonder if your cheating wife might have experienced a traumatic event in her past which she has not addressed and resolved. Nevertheless, even if this is the case, it still doesn't excuse her marital betrayal but does show that she needs professional counseling to uncover what personal issues she needs to address and resolve in order to become a whole person that is capable of being in a committed relationship.


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## Badblood

It's late but I want to answer some of your questions. I talked to her this afternoon, and the OM is a widower, who doesn't want an exclusive relationship, but just a f**k-buddy. My wife said that it meant absolutely nothing to her beyond quick sex. She described him as a walking dildo. I really can't understand it. When we are together, she treats me like a king. We have sex at least 7 or 8 times a week and plenty of BJ'S in between. She caters to every whim I have and will cook anything I want or wear any clothes I want her to, or do whatever I desire.. She has my name tattooed on her a**, and swears that I am the only man she will ever love. But ......she cheated. One thing I do know is that if we divorce, she will be well able to take care of herself, as we both make plenty of money, so why is she fighting so hard to reconcile? Had I not caught her, I would have said that she was the perfect wife, and I also know that I will never find a more beautiful and obedient woman. It all makes no sense. I am beginnjing to think that she has some un-resolved issues from childhood or when she was in college. Maybe it is like Morituri said, she has suffered some trauma that has skewed her thought processes. I told her today that she must begin counseling and have some answers before I will even consider trying to R. Her ex-husband once told me that their marriage was a nightmare. They fought all of the time, and she was always afraid of him. I wonder if he beat her? On the other hand, we almost never argue, and haven't had three or four fights in the 15 years we have been married.


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## Badblood

One further word. She told me once that she hated being alone, more than anything, and would always talk to me on the phone for hours when we were apart. IDK if this means anything or not.


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## aug

Or, maybe she just likes sex. Those trips away gave her the opportunities to explore.


Whatever it is, you know now she cant be faithful.


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## lordmayhem

Sounds like she has a voracious sexual appetite that you can't seem to satisfy. You get plenty of sex from her on a regular basis, yet she still seems to need more from an OM. Besides possible sexual trauma, has she been diagnosed with sexual addiction? 

Since she has been able to hide this affair from you until you accidentally caught her, is it possible that she's had previous affairs considering her insatiable sexual appetite? Have you gotten tested for STDs yet?


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## Initfortheduration

Like others have said, you can always stop the divorce. But I would probably go through with it. You do need to tell her when she says it was just sex. Explain to her that you and her were one. When she had "meaningless" sex, she took the thing that you value most in life "HER" and debased your oneness. She took the thing that "physically" bonded her to you in this life, and gave it to another man as if it was of no value at all. Then ask her "What exactly should I value the marriage after you destroyed its oneness?" 

That is the whole point. You are reevaluating the value of your marriage, you need time to do it. You may find value in it over time. But it can't be the same. If she was all that you said she was while she was heals up with this guy, then can anything she does be believed? Good luck.


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## Shaggy

Badblood said:


> Neither of us cheated, before .



That you know of.


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## Shaggy

So the OM likes to sleep around casually!!

You need to get tested for STDs yesterday. I bet you may already have some great souvenirs from her fun.

I don't see how you could ever trust her again after this. She seems to have so casually cheating on you, and lied to your face about it. Who knows if there have been others before this, or are others in other towns.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> It's late but I want to answer some of your questions. I talked to her this afternoon, and the OM is a widower, who doesn't want an exclusive relationship, but just a f**k-buddy. My wife said that it meant absolutely nothing to her beyond quick sex. She described him as a walking dildo. I really can't understand it. When we are together, she treats me like a king. We have sex at least 7 or 8 times a week and plenty of BJ'S in between. She caters to every whim I have and will cook anything I want or wear any clothes I want her to, or do whatever I desire.. She has my name tattooed on her a**, and swears that I am the only man she will ever love. But ......she cheated. One thing I do know is that if we divorce, she will be well able to take care of herself, as we both make plenty of money, so why is she fighting so hard to reconcile? Had I not caught her, I would have said that she was the perfect wife, and I also know that I will never find a more beautiful and obedient woman. It all makes no sense. I am beginning to think that she has some un-resolved issues from childhood or when she was in college. Maybe it is like Morituri said, she has suffered some trauma that has skewed her thought processes. * I told her today that she must begin counseling and have some answers before I will even consider trying to R*.
> 
> One further word. She told me once that she hated being alone, more than anything, and would always talk to me on the phone for hours when we were apart. IDK if this means anything or not


It's almost like I'm reading the story of my 2nd marriage.

I highly recommend that you don't give her any false hopes in regards to R. You are still in shock and will probably begin to experience the dreaded roller coaster emotional roller coaster. One day your love for her will be so high with confidence that you will be able to recover the lost trust in her, followed by another day when you will feel so much anger and bitterness towards her that the thought of ever regaining trust in her will seem like a cruel joke. Keep in mind that the recovery period for a BS (betrayed spouse) can be anywhere from 2 to 5 years.

Furthermore, she has to seek professional counseling not as a result out of fear or under duress but because she wants to resolve those issues that have caused her to destroy her marriage. These issues could potentially lead her to attempt suicide. My ex-wife had to be institutionalized a few months ago because her family feared that she might take her life. Fortunately her stay in the psychiatric hospital was not long and she is doing much better according to close sources.




Initfortheduration said:


> Like others have said, you can always stop the divorce. But I would probably go through with it. You do need to tell her when she says it was just sex. Explain to her that you and her were one. When she had "meaningless" sex, she took the thing that you value most in life "HER" and debased your oneness. She took the thing that "physically" bonded her to you in this life, and gave it to another man as if it was of no value at all. Then ask her "What exactly should I value the marriage after you destroyed its oneness?"


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I would write and edited version of this comment and give it to her so she can read it many times over without you present to maximize its emotional impact.


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## Arnold

Shaggy said:


> That you know of.



Exactly. Your wife is experienced at this, IMO. I would question her characterization of her first husband and would bet she cheated on him, as well.
Look, folks just don't usually start up with this behavior at your wife's age. The vast,vast majorityof affairs go undetected. Odds are great she has done this for a long time. You stumbled upon one. What are the odds that this is her only foray?


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## Shaggy

It's telling that she divorced her ex due to his cheating, but it is somehow ok now?

Common tell me another one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sindo

Badblood said:


> One thing I do know is that if we divorce, she will be well able to take care of herself, as we both make plenty of money, so why is she fighting so hard to reconcile?


Maybe she's developed a strong emotional attachment to you? Stranger things have happened during a long a marriage.


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## Badblood

I told her today that we are divorcing unless she can present overwhelming reasons to continue the marriage. The burden of proof is on her for the rest of our marriage, whether it's six months or sixty years. If I catch her in a single lie, then it is over permanently.


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## Jonesey

Here is a question i think you really need to have a honost answer on,before any reconciliation begins 

You wrote "Had I not caught her"

Whats here respons to how long this would have gone on, in case you have asked her?


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## Badblood

I will know where she is and who she is with 24/7, and she is to have no internet or cell phone, and I get ALL of the money, including her paychecks. This is just for starters. A polygraph WILL take place in the next couple of weeks, but I'm not going to warn her , in advance.


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## Arnold

I think the issue many of us had with reconciling is that we had no desire to have tp monitor our spouses indefinetly into the future.
Bad, are you prepared to live this way for a long time? Too much energy and it will be exhausting. Our homes are supposed to be our refuge from the pressures of battling the outside world everyday. Now, you have no safe haven. Your wife is a bigger threat than what you have to contend with in making a living and surviving. Sounds very tiring.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> I told her today that we are divorcing unless she can present overwhelming reasons to continue the marriage. The burden of proof is on her for the rest of our marriage, whether it's six months or sixty years. If I catch her in a single lie, then it is over permanently.


Consider starting the paperwork by filing for divorce. This act alone will show her that you have the courage to back your words with actions. If it's uncontested it can take a just a few months - like mine did. If she's serious, she would have to bust her a$$ in proving to you why you should give her another chance before the deadline makes the divorce final.


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## Badblood

Make no mistake, the divorce is going to happen, unless she goes to the wall to show commitment , respect, love, and desire, and that it is GENUINE!! I WILL know EVERYTHING, or we are through. No if, ands, or buts. I will also NOT tolerate any trickle-truth, or ANY lies, in the future. She has agreed to ALL of my demands, but talk is cheap, she has to basically PROVE everything, all of the time.......Arnold, I am not going to monitor her at all, she is going to monitor herself, to my satisfaction. She will do ALL of the heavy lifting, until I am satisfied that I have gotten to the bottom of this business. If she doesn't know why she did it, she had better be finding out, through counseling, therapy or whatever. If she was abused or raped, I need to know it. But it remains for her to do it, as for me, I'm getting a divorce, unless she can PROVE ALL OF IT.


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## Arnold

Good.Just remember you are dealing with a practiced liar who, most likely, has done this before. Remember,you fortuitously stumbled upon this one. Odds are very great that you know only the tip of the iceberg.
I'd check with her XH, as he seems willing to talk. Bet you hear a surprisingly different version of their marriage and her role in its demise.


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## Whip Morgan

Badblood, 

Your W sounds like she is remorseful. But remember: she was caught.

I work in a hotel, and sadly see this often: some married people that travel for work have a man/woman in cities they cheat with. It sucks, but it happens.Everyone here has been telling you this, but so far I haven't seen you address it (unless I missed it completely): this may not be the first time she cheated on you.

Regardless of how often she travels or where, you must be prepared for the fact that there may be other men. You can't force her to tell you the truth, unfortunately. What are you checking into to make sure there isn't more you don't know? I know you want her to monitor herself, but this is what cheaters do: lie.

I once had a guest, a guy I liked and who was good to the staff, call his wife on his cell in the lobby, telling her he got there okay, and was off to get work done. Then his girlfriend/randon sl*t walked in and met him, and went up the room. Pretty sick stuff, BB.


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## Badblood

I'm pretty sure that when she takes the polygraph, I will find out if there have been other men. The examiner I've chosen is one of the best, and is used by several divorce attorneys and Law-enforcement professionals, and has a list of recomendations as long as your arm. I talked to him briefly and he sounds pretty confident that he can get the truth out of her. I'm not familiar with the procedure, but am going to try it for my own piece of mind. She has agreed to it, but , of course, it hasn't happened yet. If she backs out, it is over for good.


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## the guy

Be prepared, I hear most confessions come out in the parking lot or at the front door of the testers office.


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## Shaggy

Think though what you want to do in various types of confessions that she might make. That way you won't be reacting on the spot.

Consider the extreme case: she's been doing this from the start of your marriage.


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## Badblood

I am taking her to the poly on WEDs. afternoon. She thinks we are going to meet for lunch and discus the divorce, and to give her a chance to explain herself , in person. I hate being devious, but I don't want her to expect anything, until we get to the examiners office. Then if she backs out, or confesses to any other affairs, I will have my answer, and can proceed to kick her to the curb.


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## Whip Morgan

BB, polys are not rock solid, so you may be relying on what the tester talks to you about (his thoughts on how honest she is) in addition to the actual test itself.

The idea of the cheating spouse on a business trip sounds cliche, but sadly its common. Hotels/motels and business trips provide a safe time for them to cheat. Try to stay calm during this whole thing, especially if you get a further confession/trickle truth in the parking lot when she realizes what is happening. Good luck dude!


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## Arnold

Badblood said:


> I'm pretty sure that when she takes the polygraph, I will find out if there have been other men. The examiner I've chosen is one of the best, and is used by several divorce attorneys and Law-enforcement professionals, and has a list of recomendations as long as your arm. I talked to him briefly and he sounds pretty confident that he can get the truth out of her. I'm not familiar with the procedure, but am going to try it for my own piece of mind. She has agreed to it, but , of course, it hasn't happened yet. If she backs out, it is over for good.


Make sure she foots the bill for the test, too.


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## Arnold

Bet you a beer there is way more than you know. Just playing the odds: you happen to head down there when she is with this guy and this is her first OM? No, I don't think so.


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## Jellybeans

BB--my heart goes out to you. I can't imagine a worse way of finding out than the way you did.


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## Badblood

One thing that has me really confused is how much she is fighting to stay married to me. I happened to mention that maybe we should divorce or have an "Open marriage" then we BOTH could play when we are apart, then be together the rest of the time. She started crying and said she would kill herself If I was with another woman, and begged and pleaded with me,not to do it. Told me she would crawl on her belly in public if I took her back. What a f**ked -up mess this is.


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## Eli-Zor

Badblood said:


> I am taking her to the poly on WEDs. afternoon. She thinks we are going to meet for lunch and discus the divorce, and to give her a chance to explain herself , in person. I hate being devious, but I don't want her to expect anything, until we get to the examiners office. Then if she backs out, or confesses to any other affairs, I will have my answer, and can proceed to kick her to the curb.


Are you looking for a final reason to divorce you wife ? If so don't bother with the poly divorce her now. There will always be more unpleasant news and the threat of a poly often reveals it. Instead of waiting until Wednesday tell her today you booked the poly and give her the opportunity to come clean once and for all.

Your still raw from what has happened , decide what you want as even if she passes the poly you may not be able to move on and recover from what has happened. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Cheaters ironically are deathly afraid sometimes of the BS cheating, and can't deal with them being with someone else.

Stick to the investigation and polygraph.

If you stay together you are going have to deal with her travels. Can she quit her job?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Shaggy said:


> Cheaters ironically are deathly afraid sometimes of the BS cheating, and can't deal with them being with someone else.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I can vouch for this as being the truth.

At the beginning of the year I accidentally bumped into my ex-wife. She convinced me to go have some coffee with her at a nearby coffee shop. As I was leaving, she tried giving me her new phone number so that we could talk again another time. I told her that I could not since I was already - still am - with another woman. The look on her face was one of complete shock. A week later I received a call from one of our mutual friends telling me that my ex-wife had been frantically trying to find out where I lived and was asking her to please give her the information. My friend lied and told her she didn't know where I lived. She also said that my ex-wife was crying hysterically and asking her _"how could he do this to me?"_. :wtf: Our divorce had been finalized more than a year at that point :scratchhead:


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## Almostrecovered

it's usually a polar opposite kind of thing, some cheaters tell their BS to go out and cheat so they can feel that "score was evened" (one of the first reactions from my wife on Dday was- "Why don't you go out and get some BJ's"


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## morituri

Almostrecovered said:


> it's usually a polar opposite kind of thing, some cheaters tell their BS to go out and cheat so they can feel that "score was evened" (one of the first reactions from my wife on Dday was- "Why don't you go out and get some BJ's"


I could bet a paycheck that if you had gone ahead and had a fling of your own, she would have definitely not been ok with it afterwards.

My ex-wife also said I could have a fling if that is what it would take for me not to divorce her, yet even after we got divorced, she could not accept another woman in my life. Go figure.


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## Badblood

The polygraph is history, and I learned a lot from it. Before she took it, she said that they had full intercourse less than 6 times and she never did oral on him, and that proved to be the truth.. After the test, the examiner said that he is very confident of the results, confident enough to refund my money if he is wrong. According to the test, this is the only man , other than me, who she has had sex with since our marriage began, and there hasn't been any inappropriate contacts or texting or websites, etc. Until this time, she has been clean. What the poly cannot tell me is why. Other than this affair, she has been a good, loyal wife. What changed in her? I ask her and she doesn't know, or SAYS she doesn't know.


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## lordmayhem

Badblood said:


> The polygraph is history, and I learned a lot from it. Before she took it, she said that they had full intercourse less than 6 times and she never did oral on him, and that proved to be the truth.. After the test, the examiner said that he is very confident of the results, confident enough to refund my money if he is wrong. According to the test, this is the only man , other than me, who she has had sex with since our marriage began, and there hasn't been any inappropriate contacts or texting or websites, etc. Until this time, she has been clean. What the poly cannot tell me is why. Other than this affair, she has been a good, loyal wife. What changed in her? I ask her and she doesn't know, or SAYS she doesn't know.


I'm glad you were able to get the full truth, now you don't have to worry about any TT. As for why, it really is about boundaries, and somehow she lowered them enough for this to happen. If you get the 100% commitment from her, as well as the other requirements, you can now decide if she can earn the precious gift of R. The ball is now in your court, but you don't have to decide yet. Take your time and see just how committed she really is.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> What the poly cannot tell me is why. Other than this affair, she has been a good, loyal wife. What changed in her? I ask her and she doesn't know, or SAYS she doesn't know.


While boundaries were obviously violated, it is still important to know why she did not stop the affair after the first time she had sex with the OM. A ONS can be had during an emotionally weakened and drunken state where inhibitions fly out the window and what was inconceivable only hours earlier becomes a bad reality. 

The "I don't know why I had the affair" is not good enough for you to accept because it means that she is still susceptible to the same forces which cause her to cheat once to cheat again in the future. Until she can answer truthfully why she did it, you should consider continuing with the divorce.


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## Shaggy

I think even more important than why are the questions 

Can I trust you ever again?
Why won't you cheat again?
Have you truly ended this affair
Are there any circumstances where you would see him again?
What are you going to do to earn R
How long are you willing to wait for R?

Of course full and permanent transparency is a given, along with no more business travel
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Shaggy said:


> I think even more important than why are the questions
> 
> Can I trust you ever again?
> Why won't you cheat again?
> Have you truly ended this affair
> Are there any circumstances where you would see him again?
> What are you going to do to earn R
> How long are you willing to wait for R?
> 
> Of course full and permanent transparency is a given, along with no more business travel
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The true answers to those questions won't come out of her mouth but from her actions and time.


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## Badblood

I am going ahead with the divorce anyway. I'm still young enough to find a new Lady (a real Lady), in fact, there is a really good-looking woman who works at my broker's office, who has asked if I would like to go to lunch sometime. She is 37, and very hot!! I called her today and we are going to dinner tomorrow. I treated my STB-ex wife very well, and even though this affair is the only one, it is one too many for me to live with. My parents and hers will be shocked, but it's my life, and I'm not going to live it with somebody I cannot trust, and who has disrepected me so badly.


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## jnj express

Hey Bad----you will do what you must, and what is best for you

If you ever do decide to seek out your wife----she does need to find out the deep down core WHY---she did this

She may try to say she doesn't know the why---but she certainly knows what she was thinking, when she met this guy, when she went with him the 1st time, when she allowed him to "take her" the 1st time---she knew she was possibly wrecking the mge.----yet DID NOT CARE----you really should find out why, she did not care, and was willing to throw it all away.


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## WasDecimated

Badblood, You do what you need to do. 

I admire your strength in deciding to leave. I was a good husband and father too and we actually did have a good marriage. I have stayed so far with my WW for 10 months after I found out about her 1 ½ year affair. At least your wife shows remorse for what she did. My WW only thinks of her self and has done nothing to help me heal. I wish I would have left 10 month ago…that is time I will never get back. 

I wish I had the self confidence to just walk away from my situation.


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## Arnold

Badblood said:


> I am going ahead with the divorce anyway. I'm still young enough to find a new Lady (a real Lady), in fact, there is a really good-looking woman who works at my broker's office, who has asked if I would like to go to lunch sometime. She is 37, and very hot!! I called her today and we are going to dinner tomorrow. I treated my STB-ex wife very well, and even though this affair is the only one, it is one too many for me to live with. My parents and hers will be shocked, but it's my life, and I'm not going to live it with somebody I cannot trust, and who has disrepected me so badly.


This is a truly healthy decision. I was talking to a guy who had a similar situation and divorce. I asked him why, if she was remorseful.
He told me "Arnold, I know myself. I am a nice guy and want to stay that way. Ialso know that I would harbor resentment over this for my entire life if I stayed.And, I do not want to become that type of man."

He knew thathe would never feel right about his wife again. And, most guys never do , after this.


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## Shaggy

Your listening to your heart and gut instead of negotiating with them and accepting something you know you can't. Good job. You'll end up happier and emotionally healthier than if you forced yourself to go agsinst them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

I called my wife and told her that I was going to dinner with another woman, and she was devestated, but so was I when I found out about the affair, .......so what. I also told her that the divorce will not be final for six to eight months, so she has that amount of time to prove to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, her love, loyalty, devotion, desire, and complete transparency and to be able to prove it every day for the rest of her life. That, my friends , isn't going to happen. NOBODY could live under such conditions. But, hey, maybe she can pull it off, but I'm not waiting around for her to do it. I told her that I would put a notice of separation in the paper tomorrow, and that I would feel free to see who I please.


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## Arnold

I realize the urge to punish and give her a taste of the pain is strong. But, really, try to resist if you can. No doubt, she deserves it. But, it is probably bad for your own karma.
For me, I just wanted to shove one measly banana cream pie in my XW's face , just to get some of my anger out.

Well, off to Baker's Square


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## morituri

A word of caution. Be honest with the woman you went out to dinner with about your situation. She is a human being who should not be used as a tool to punish your wife.

Also, While it is tempting to have our ego stroked by having a revenge affair, it can backfire on us and lead to heartbreak. Revenge often tends not to be a sweet as it appears.


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## Catherine602

I think you did the right thing by deciding to divorce. The type of cheating is an important consideration and the existence of children and other complications but i hate to see a LS go through emotional turmoil and pain to remain with a cheater. It takes 2 to 5 years to recover why not recover and start a new relationship. If the LS is willing to fix any issues that may have contributed to the cheating then there is no reason that a new relationship would not be successful. Why stay in one were there will always distrust? 

I have never experience being cheated on, that I know of, so it is hard to know what I would do. I would rather be alone then reward a cheater with a better marriage. I'd rather reward a new person. That's how I see it but I'm sure it is much more complicated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

I am not going to have a revenge affair. My marriage is "in limbo", but as far as I'm concerned, it's over except for the legalities. IF, BIG IF, she really goes to the wall and I'm a certain as death about her, then maybe I will try a new marriage with her, but I wouldn't count on it. But until then, I am my own man. I have told the other Lady about my situation, and she agrees to go out with me, as a friend, and hopefully she can convince me that reconciliation is impossible and that she would be a better match. Funny thing, another woman hit on me at work. She is a beautiful white woman, and a VP in the company. Why is all this happening to me?


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## Badblood

One thing for sure, finding out that other ladies are interested in me has sure taken a lot of the pain away and helped with my self-image.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> and hopefully she can convince me that reconciliation is impossible and that she would be a better match.


I have to say that this statement is very strange indeed. For a man who in a very short period of time went from being so in love with his wife to being so utterly devastated from witnessing his wife's infidelity in the act, this seems so uncharacteristic. Care to comment?


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## Eli-Zor

Your wife's affair was appalling however your behaviour subsequently is questionable . Your playing a game called spite , grow up , you said your going to divorce your wife stop trying to dangle a carrot in front of her so you can kick her in the gut every time you feel the urge to have a dig.

I absolutely oppose the affair however your words read like you want your wife broken as a person . It's one thing to demand true remorse it's another to act and behave maliciously , your interpretation of the date may be different mine is you are looking to slap your wife at every opportunity .

Either move on and divorce , let your wife know your marriage is over or start acting properly . If you are moving on your wife does not need to put her salary into your account , she may be responsible for half the bills but that is all.

Your marriage is not in limbo , it is a choice of words you are using to explain to yourself why you can behave this way , guess what ? affair people use a similar rationalisation to excuse their actions.

Read your own posts , if your words are reflective of your behaviour when together then maybe divorce is your only option.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

morituri said:


> I have to say that this statement is very strange indeed. For a man who in a very short period of time went from being so in love with his wife to being so utterly devastated from witnessing his wife's infidelity in the act, this seems so uncharacteristic. Care to comment?


The answer is simple. I didn't cheat, so I'm not putting ANY extra effort into the marriage. I didn't break it, so I'm not going to fix it. I'm the type of person, that when I make up my mind about something, it's up to the other person to change it, not me. I invested 15 years into this marriage and what did I get for it, a cheating , wh*re for a wife? I don't deserve that. If another woman can show me more love and respect than my cheater wife, why would I stay married to her? I've listened to all her arguments, excuses, and alibis, and am NOT convinced at all. I might NEVER be convinced that she is really remorseful, but if I AM, it's because SHE has put the work into changing her behavior. I simply think that it is un-likely that she will do it. I would be thrilled if she did, but I don't think she has it in her.


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## morituri

Then stop stringing your wife along by giving her false hope and simply tell her that you never want to hear or see her again. You divorce her and move on. What could be simpler than that?


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## Badblood

Eli-Zor said:


> Your wife's affair was appalling however your behaviour subsequently is questionable . Your playing a game called spite , grow up , you said your going to divorce your wife stop trying to dangle a carrot in front of her so you can kick her in the gut every time you feel the urge to have a dig.
> 
> I absolutely oppose the affair however your words read like you want your wife broken as a person . It's one thing to demand true remorse it's another to act and behave maliciously , your interpretation of the date may be different mine is you are looking to slap your wife at every opportunity .
> 
> Either move on and divorce , let your wife know your marriage is over or start acting properly . If you are moving on your wife does not need to put her salary into your account , she may be responsible for half the bills but that is all.
> 
> Your marriage is not in limbo , it is a choice of words you are using to explain to yourself why you can behave this way , guess what ? affair people use a similar rationalisation to excuse their actions.
> 
> Read your own posts , if your words are reflective of your behaviour when together then maybe divorce is your only option.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Eli, frankly, I don't care if it hurts her, she is the cheater, and needs to feel the same pain that I felt. Do I want to break her? Of course not. I am simply moving beyond her. Our marriage is over, dead as fried chicken. I am going to live my life and enjoy myself, without regard to her feelings, the same way she had an affair without regard to mine. She is a very beautiful woman and like I said, until now, we had a great marriage. Maybe, if she can PROVE that she has changed and will, in the future be a loyal wife, I MAY be willing to start a NEW marriage with her. But until then, I am a free agent and will do as I please.


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## Shaggy

Blood, I can see the deep hurt and anger you have over your wife's betrayal. How many wrongs does it take to make a right?

just divorce her and move on if you can't forgive. I don't mean forget or rug sweep, but your just slinging barbs at her at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

morituri said:


> Then stop stringing your wife along by giving her false hope and simply tell her that you never want to hear or see her again. You divorce her and move on. What could be simpler than that?


SHE asked for the chance to prove herself, and for the sake of our 15 years together, I will give her that chance. I'm trying to be fair , here. Nothing is impossible, however unlikely.


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## morituri

Maybe I'm dense but how can you give her a chance to prove herself while your actions say that you are not? Your words make as much sense as your wife's and my ex-wife's saying that they loved us yet they were f*cking their brains out behind our backs.:scratchhead:


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## the guy

Bad,
I hope you find the women that you are looking for. 15 years ago you found a women that fit the bill and married her. 

You will for sure find the same women you found before and I can only hope it last ......at least 30 years before that one cheats.

Who knows the next one may only last 7-1/2 years and then she'll cheat. Bottom line you will find a relationship with as much love as the last one and the both of you will want to marry and according to stats one of you will cheat.

Soon you will fall in love again and then marry, my question is what will prevent this next investment from dropping out , when the current investment you have may be worth a while.

Just saying buying stock in love sometime pays out the same.....same investment different company. But with the current company then the stock my grow with maturity along with healthier behaviors.

I suggest not looking for a new broker. keep your money and hold it until the market has settled.

Enough with the metifors

It's great to started going out and dating, please keep in mind that the person your dating is only seeing the worst Mr. badblood. Right now you are not 100% and the date is not really seeing the real Mr.badblood, but the badblood that just went through a painful event. If your going to start dating show this new person that Mr. badblood has healed and is 100% back to his old self....not the torn up one that you see in the mirror.


Give it time, one way or another heal 1st and then go out and be/show some one a better person in a better state of mind then you are in right now.

Make sense?


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## Badblood

morituri said:


> Maybe I'm dense but how can you give her a chance to prove herself while your actions say that you are not? Your words make as much sense as your wife's and my ex-wife's saying that they loved us yet they were f*cking their brains out behind our backs.:scratchhead:


Morituri, she cheated all by herself, right? So she can prove the opposite, all by herself. I understand that if we have marriage problems, then we BOTH try to fix it. An affair is different. It is the unilateral action of the WS, without concern or respect for the feelings of the BS, right? So, she broke it, she fixes it, if it's going to be fixed. She has until the divorce is final, but in the mean time, I'm going to enjoy life, and keep my options open. Understand ?


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## Badblood

Guy, I really don't care about stats. They can be made to say anything you want them to say. I'm in marketing, and know something about it. But to continue your metaphors, have you ever heard the one about "throwing good money , after bad?" Right now that is what I'm thinking. So, she has until the divorce is final to prove that any future investments I make, are sound. Right now I'm investing nothing in her.


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## Jellybeans

If you are dead set on divorce then what's the point of giving her another chance while you don't want to reconcile? You said you were both married to other people when you met and "wanted to do the right thing" so you divorced your spouses to be together. I wonder if that adds to how you feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

Jellybeans said:


> If you are dead set on divorce then what's the point of giving her another chance while you don't want to reconcile? You said you were both married to other people when you met and "wanted to do the right thing" so you divorced your spouses to be together. I wonder if that adds to how you feel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Possibly, JB, but I doubt it. I REALLY don't want to go through the hassle of divorce. BTDT, and it's no fun. BUT, I will not stay married to a cheater, nor even a reformed one, unless she is prepared to basically be at my beck and call for ever. She will have no social life that I do not approve, she will quit her job, if I tell her to, and will conform to ALL of my needs.......period. Remember, she cheated, I didn't, so I call ALL of the shots, and she either proves her obedience, or goes somewhere else. if she had never cheated, it would not have had to be this way, but she did, and it does.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> BUT, I will not stay married to a cheater, nor even a reformed one, unless she is prepared to basically be at my beck and call for ever. *She will have no social life that I do not approve, she will quit her job, if I tell her to, and will conform to ALL of my needs.*......period. Remember, she cheated, I didn't, so I call ALL of the shots, and she either proves her obedience, or goes somewhere else. if she had never cheated, it would not have had to be this way, but she did, and it does.


You know her better than any of us here so do you think it is even possible for her to do all this? If the answer is no, then it seems like it is nothing more than an exercise in futility.


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## alphaomega

Bad blood

You are very angry. I get that. But your posts are beyond angry. They are vehement in character. Yes, she should carry the weight of reconciliation, but your idea of a possible "new" marriage with your DS doesn't sound like a marriage at all. It sounds like slavery. Slavery to you. This ideology you have of the type of reconciliation you require is way too bitter and tainted and dark to even work. Sh may bow to your demands....at first....but like any slave will soon gather the strength and determination to resist and fight back. What type of "new" marriage will that be? It will be one where every single day of the rest of your lives together you constantly remind her how awful she is and that she deserves every single punishment you dole out to her on a whim until the day she dies.

You know what that's called? It's called emotional abuse of the worst kind, and it's far far beyond the lower limits of morality that even cheating is considered to be.

Your hate is consuming you, and it's running out of control. Soon, it will eat you up inside. And this hate is neither manly nor attractive. Best to get a divorce, with no chance for a reconciliation. And tell your stbxw as much, in complete honesty with her that there is absolutely no chance for reconciliation....ever. Then.....move on and heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

To be honest, I couldn't do it, Morituri. I know her (or at least I thought I did) and she CAN be very determined. So far, she has done everything I've asked. She has exposed the affair to everyone we know, including our church, our kids, our employer, etc. She took the poly without a moments hesitation, and proved her words. But that isn't nearly enough. She will have to undergo IC, I will have control of all phones, PC's, and our social life, and she will have no contact with ANY man whatsoever, unless I allow it. A good marriage is between equals, until one of them cheats, then if the marriage is to continue, the cheater must be completely subservient to the BS, until the BS is satisfied that the WS can be trusted again. That's my feeling on the matter. Because she asked for it, and because she was a good wife for 15 years, she has one opportunity, until the divorce is final, to prove herself. If she does, I can always stop the proceedings, if she doesn't, then it's showtime.


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## Badblood

alphaomega said:


> Bad blood
> 
> You are very angry. I get that. But your posts are beyond angry. They are vehement in character. Yes, she should carry the weight of reconciliation, but your idea of a possible "new" marriage with your DS doesn't sound like a marriage at all. It sounds like slavery. Slavery to you. This ideology you have of the type of reconciliation you require is way too bitter and tainted and dark to even work. Sh may bow to your demands....at first....but like any slave will soon gather the strength and determination to resist and fight back. What type of "new" marriage will that be? It will be one where every single day of the rest of your lives together you constantly remind her how awful she is and that she deserves every single punishment you dole out to her on a whim until the day she dies.
> 
> You know what that's called? It's called emotional abuse of the worst kind, and it's far far beyond the lower limits of morality that even cheating is considered to be.
> 
> Your hate is consuming you, and it's running out of control. Soon, it will eat you up inside. And this hate is neither manly nor attractive. Best to get a divorce, with no chance for a reconciliation. And tell your stbxw as much, in complete honesty with her that there is absolutely no chance for reconciliation....ever. Then.....move on and heal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You simply don't get it do you? AO. If she proves herself a faithful, trustworthy, lovong wife, and does so TO MY SATISFACTION, then the divorce is off, and we can make a new, improved marriage. I am not so unfeeling or boorish as to hold the past over her head. If she is able to do so, I would be happy. I just don't think , right now, that it is possible. She asked for the opportunity, and she has 8 months to do it. BTW I do NOT call her names, snarl at her, or IN ANY WAY abuse her. For you to say that I'm filled with hate is your projecting, not my true opinion. I am protecting myself , nothing more.


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## alphaomega

I completely get it. Do you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

Badblood said:


> Possibly, JB, but I doubt it. I REALLY don't want to go through the hassle of divorce. BTDT, and it's no fun. BUT, I will not stay married to a cheater, nor even a reformed one, unless she is prepared to basically be at my beck and call for ever. She will have no social life that I do not approve, she will quit her job, if I tell her to, and will conform to ALL of my needs.......period. Remember, she cheated, I didn't, so I call ALL of the shots, and she either proves her obedience, or goes somewhere else. if she had never cheated, it would not have had to be this way, but she did, and it does.


She gets a life sentence of slavery to you for the crime of cheating. I think I'd rather be stoned to death. 

Hate is the most destructive emotion resist the desire to let it seap into your mind and soul. 

Just let her go. She is not a criminal because she cheated and you are in no position to be her judge, jury and jailer. It is difficult to act in a measured, mature and controlled fashion in the face of a massive betrayal, but you must. Not for her but for you. If you seriously entertain even presenting these conditions to her, you may want to stop and look at yourself and your attitude towards people in general and women in particular. From your post, you seem to relate to women in reference to how well they prop up your ego. 

The "beautiful, white, VP" wants you are you sure or is it important that you feel you attract the cream of the crop or someone with quality that you covet. The woman you are using to get back at your wife. A man who can use women like chest pawns has to be quite divorced from the virtures of empathy. You have been injured and you can bear to injure others at this point? This woman has done nothing to you leave her out. 

You're seem acomplished at vindictive, and , enranged. have you had much practice?. If so, Have you explored the tendencies on your relationships with women. Betrayed spouses think of doing the things you are doing but most are wise enough not to get carried away with hate. Once you let it permeate your thoughts and actions it is like a parasite that shiphons off your character, happiness and focus. Dont go there, you will become it's slave. Paradoxically, you will be controlled and enslaved by your wife because hate is the mirror of love. Your thoughts and life will be consumed with your wife she will be part of your life until you let go. 

Walk away clean with your dignity and future possibility to improve your ability to forgive and maybe have a loving relationship. You think now you can do this with no consequences hate kills you ability to be happy and to love. It shows on your face and encases you in a pall. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

BadBlood, my concern is that since you stated that you will live like a single man, which I gather may include sex with other women, that you will be sabotaging any possible reconciliation with your wife. This wouldn't be an issue if you had simply chosen to divorce your wife with no possible reconciliation.


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## Badblood

Morituri, I have given a LOT of thought to this very issue. I have decided that IF I find another woman I want to have sex with, I will certainly tell my wife that the possibility of reconciliation is ended. I would NEVER want to string her along. If she hadn't asked for the chance to prove herself, until the divorce is final, I would have considered myself a free agent. But until it's final, I will date, but not F**K. (Unless it's my wife) But that raises whole different problems .


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## Badblood

Catherine and AO If you want to project your own issues on me, feel free. I distinctly said that IF SHE PROVES HERSELF, then we will reconcile, and that means that the marriage goes back to square one. I want a loyal and loving wife, not a slave , but she HAS to prove her worth. That is the price of her infidelity.


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## the guy

I get it. I can appreciate your confidence and the will to move on with out your WW.
Hopefully leasons are learned here and she...and you see real remorse from her. I also agree the a large amount of submission needs to be taken into consideration when a wayward is trying to help the loyal heal.

As unhealthy as it was there was a small amount of "slavery" on my part, and my wifes willingness to play this role and give her self completely back to me helped me to heal.

Yes I know it wierd but again it was just role playing. The reality of it all is we as loyals need your waywards to do some heavy lifting. Even then it is a struggle for us to move on with them in the faith that our waywards won't relapse.

I would rather read about the tough love that badblood is exhibiting rather then some one dening the fact that there are a doormat.

So good for you badblood, and in time i hope that forgivens and faith will strengthen and you have a healtier marriage.

On a side note...as you can see I can't spell for sh!t...LOL


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## Saffron

I'm so appalled right now. I can't believe you plan on dating other women while still married. I'm the BS and consider that cheating, regardless of your wife's infidelity. To say you'd date other women, but only f**k your wife is beyond disrespectful to women. What could you possibly offer a woman as dating material with this kind of mindset? Not to mention . . . you're married! You may see your vows as broken, but to a woman who values marriage vows, you are still off limits.

By dating while married, you run the risk of finding another woman who doesn't find marriage vows sacred. It's not like you've been legally separated for months and the divorce is imminent. I'd question the caliber of woman who would date you while you have a wife trying to prove herself on the side. It makes you sound like a user of woman. I'm not saying you are, but what you describe in your posts paints an ugly picture. 

Even if you're honest about your situation with the women you date, they're going to think they can win you or only need to bide their time. If you are thinking, "Well, let them win me" then you are giving your wife false hope. It's cake eating mentality to see what else is out there, but not completely cut ties with your wife. If you want to date, then end it. I understand the anger and desire to get "your turn" at dating, but it's not going to help your marriage. It will only add more problems to the mix. The path you're on is dooming any chance of R, regardless of whatever heavy lifting your wife is willing to do.


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## Saffron

Sorry if I ranted, but I hate to think of a woman getting involved with a married man who is even considering R with his wife. 

My H's affair was essentially for the ego boost. I feel he used the OW and me to feel better about himself. So if I get any sense that a woman might be "used" by a man, I get a visceral reaction. What can I say, our experiences do affect how we react to different situations.


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## the guy

S-
You make a great point, date now will not help and it will only show others the worst you can be....or at your worst.

When dating you want to show others the best in your self or at your best, IMHO.

It may be OP is in the revenge stage and will see things in a different lite days from now. Lets not be to hard.....as the betrayed we all have had these thoughts, lets hope B- doesn't act on them.

I'm sure some that have taken this road could chime in.


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## Saffron

the guy said:


> S-
> You make a great point, date now will not help and it will only show others the worst you can be....or at your worst.
> 
> When dating you want to show others the best in your self or at your best, IMHO.
> 
> It may be OP is in the revenge stage and will see things in a different lite days from now. Lets not be to hard.....as the betrayed we all have had these thoughts, lets hope B- doesn't act on them.
> 
> I'm sure some that have taken this road could chime in.


Agreed. We all have these thoughts at some point or another. It really is overwhelming the emotions you experience right after d-day. 

I've talked to my H about how sometimes it's the fact that he's gotten to date someone, and I haven't, is what really sticks in my craw. He's said if I need to date, he'd hate it, but would do anything to R. I know that isn't fair to another man and would cause more problems in R, so I have no real desire to date anyone else. When it comes down to it, I only want to date my husband. 

Another factor, I know I could meet and fall in love with someone else. I don't believe we all have only one true love in the world, so by putting myself out there . . . I could get swept up in a new relationship. Especially now when I'm vulnerable due to my H's infidelity. I want my marriage and my family, so I'm focused on that instead of testing the waters. If we fail to R, then I would get that opportunity when I'm emotionally and legally available.


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## Eli-Zor

Your making endless excuses for your bad behaviour , if you do go on date I wonder if you will exhibit such poor traits or will you deceive her into seeing a nice guy, over time that little bubble of yours will burst . You seem to think we are fighting you , not at all , we are pointing out you are on a downhill spiral and you refuse to accept it .

I am beginning to wonder what was happening in your marriage before , it's one thing being angry it's another being down right nasty , and there is no doubt where you are at the moment . Go for IC and anger management , cancel the date and save that woman the pain , and please listen to us instead of fighting us. This is not a you and us battle , we at least are honest with you something many people who you know may be to scared to be .

Listen and hear us .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Badblood, of course you are free to do as you wish but please consider the excellent points Saffron made. There is a lot of truth in what she said with regards to the quality of woman who would seriously consider having a relationship with a married man. If your wife betrayed you without her having been previously involved with you while still married to her ex-husband, how more so would it be for a woman willing to get involved with you while still married to your present wife? There's an old saying 'what she can do with you, she can do to you'.

You may not agree with this but you are emotionally vulnerable to the emotional and sexual candy that other women may offer you.


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## Badblood

Wow, I am trying to get some other perspectives, but didn't mean to cause such a sh*tstorm. LOL I will try to address most of you guys' questions and issues. Am I angry at my wife for cheating ?, f**k yes I am, and I have a right to be. Will I use her as a slave? Of course not!! I know as well as you , that isn't the way to have a marriage. What I am doing is "tough love". My wife cheated, lied , disrespected me, and f**ked another man, so she has to prove beyond any doubt that it will NEVER happen again, right? No excuses, no exceptions, no ifs , ands, or buts. I must have TOTAL confidence in her, the same amount I had when we first got married, or I am finished with her. She asked for a chance to do this, and I gave it to her. IF she can do it, then we will make a new marriage, and it will take time. BUT FIRST, she has to prove she is worth the investment of my time and affection. Until then, I am NOT going to do ANYTHING to make it easier on her, because we tend to place a greater value on those things we have to struggle for, than on those things which are easier. I feel that I am giving her the only thing I can or am inclined to give......a chance. She has until the divorce is final to get her act together. BTW, she JUMPED at the chance, and we are in complete agreement about it.


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## morituri

Badblood please realize that we mean no disrespect to you with our comments. We KNOW the righteous rage you are going through because we also experienced it in the past.

I just hope that you give serious thought of the dangers of dating other women while still being married and the present state of your marriage being in limbo.


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## Badblood

Saffron, I am NOT going to sit home, suffer, cry, or beat my chest in sorrow. I DIDN'T CHEAT!! Why should I suffer any more than I already am? I am making the conscious decision to move on, to go beyond the affair. If she proves herself, she can come with me. If she can't, then I will pass her by. I am not going to be married to a woman I have to worry about or mistrust. She has to change, not me. If we had problems in the marriage, I wasn't aware of it, and she NEVER tried to communicate any issues she had, to me. But none of this is relevant, until the affair is dealt with. There are two different dynamics. First....the affair has to be dealt with to MY satisfaction. Second....we rebuild our marriage together. My dating other women, is more for my benefit than anything else. I enjoy socializing, ands see no reason why I shouldn't continue to do so. I am not stupid, I know better than to get involved with someone else, at this time, but I also see no reason to deny myself some cordial, non-sexual entertainment. If another woman does interest me, I will certainly tell both the woman and my wife. I have NEVER, nor will I ever, attempt to deceive anybody.


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## Catherine602

Badblood said:


> Wow, I am trying to get some other perspectives, but didn't mean to cause such a sh*tstorm. LOL I will try to address most of you guys' questions and issues. Am I angry at my wife for cheating ?, f**k yes I am, and I have a right to be. Will I use her as a slave? Of course not!! I know as well as you , that isn't the way to have a marriage. What I am doing is "tough love". My wife cheated, lied , disrespected me, and f**ked another man, so she has to prove beyond any doubt that it will NEVER happen again, right? No excuses, no exceptions, no ifs , ands, or buts. I must have TOTAL confidence in her, the same amount I had when we first got married, or I am finished with her. She asked for a chance to do this, and I gave it to her. IF she can do it, then we will make a new marriage, and it will take time. BUT FIRST, she has to prove she is worth the investment of my time and affection. Until then, I am NOT going to do ANYTHING to make it easier on her, because we tend to place a greater value on those things we have to struggle for, than on those things which are easier. I feel that I am giving her the only thing I can or am inclined to give......a chance. She has until the divorce is final to get her act together. BTW, she JUMPED at the chance, and we are in complete agreement about it.


This sounds better but I think you both need the help of a MC to give this a chance to work. She is willing to reconsile and atone for her betrayal of you, there are several components of that struggle. It may help to have guidence. She wants something from you, your forgiveness and you seem to think that it gives you power over her which is the theam of your original post. 

I have read other post from betrayed men and somewher in the narrative love and emotional pain is mentioned. Your post is filled with righteous anger and the need to have absolute control over her. The missing element seems to be love. So why are you bothering to make her believe that you want to R? 

If you are not R because you love her then let her go. I think you will regret a false reconciliation. You will hurt her but she will get over it and move on with a healed heart. You may taste the intoxicating victory of revenge and in the process your heart will harden and effect the quality of woman you attract. Women know what you are and you attract your emotional equal.

Just I side note - something that needs addressing at some point - you have problems in your relationships with women that you may not recognize or deal with. There is an appropriate time to examine tge nature of your problems. By now, you should be able to see a pattern in the failures. You are not completely above the problems that led to the failure of your first marriage and the problems you have now.

Think about it. It may be difficult to face in you state of mind now but come to it when the time is right. Your reaction has desturbing ekements one is the complete absence of expressions of softer emotions such as hurt and love. You may feel them but it does not seem prominent. One has to wonder if this is a hint of your approach to the ups and downs in your marriage. Something to come to terms with at some point. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

Morituri, I exspected that some posters would not agree with me, and am more than willing to hear other POV's. I don't take any criticism personally , unless it is insulting. So far, none of it has been.


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## sadcalifornian

The only problem I see is that she has done everything you asked for so far. I am sure she will do whatever you ask for in the future in remore or damage-control. She even took poly in a heart beat. 

Divorcing her no matter what she does now as you just cannot forgive her is one course of action and you are fully justified in taking such course. But, if you say you are willing to forgive her if she proves she will be a faithful wife in the future, what exactly are you looking for any more than what she has already done? I really don't see there is much left out there that she can do to make you feel better? 

Although you may not see it this way, but deep down what you want is some kind of vindication to make the score even, actionwise or hurt wise. Not that she does not deserve it, but what do you think you are really seeking?


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## Badblood

Catherine, you seem fixated on the idea I am filled with hate for my wife. Nothing could be further from the truth. I love my wife to distraction and will be exstatic if she can prove that this will never happen again. Please try to not project your feelings onto others. If I didn't love her, I wouldn't even be here on TAM, and I would have told her outright that R was impossible. I do have hope, but it must be tempered with proven actions on her part.


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## Badblood

sadcalifornian said:


> The only problem I see is that she has done everything you asked for so far. I am sure she will do whatever you ask for in the future in remore or damage-control. She even took poly in a heart beat.
> 
> Divorcing her no matter what she does now as you just cannot forgive her is one course of action and you are fully justified in taking such course. But, if you say you are willing to forgive her if she proves she will be a faithful wife in the future, what exactly are you looking for any more than what she has already done? I really don't see there is much left out there that she can do to make you feel better?
> 
> Although you may not see it this way, but deep down what you want is some kind of vindication to make the score even, actionwise or hurt wise. Not that she does not deserve it, but what do you think you are really seeking?


Sadcalifornian, what I am seeking is the best possible future for myself. Before this, I always thought in terms of OUR future, but the affair has put an end to that. There are two possible outcomes of my situation. 1. She does not prove herself, before the divorce is final, and we split. 2. She changes her behavior, proves , over time, that she can be a loving, loyal and trustworthy partner. In which case, we will start the process of remaking our marriage to a better one.


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## Catherine602

Ok I am glad you express that. Please be careful with your heart and emotions. Guard against unreasonably sustained rage. Examine your self at every stage and make sure you wound are healing properly and not festering. If you cannot survive the infidelity with your ability to love another woman intact then D no matter how much she wants it to work. 

You were loyal and her cheating was inexcusable. Don't let her mistake destroy your future chance for happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

One thing I would like to point out. If she proves herself to my satisfaction, and the affair is put to rest,I will be very willing and happy to work just as hard as she does, to rebuild our marriage. But for the 8 months until the divorce is final, she MUST consider ALL of my needs first, last and always. She must become a good woman again, because I will never be married to a bad one.


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## morituri

Badblood, thank you for clarifying that you will not be seeking emotional nor sexual satisfaction with other women. I certainly believe that a man or woman can build platonic friendships with the opposite sex as long as there is a clear understanding between all parties involved that no boundaries will be crossed.

Even though I've been in a committed relationship with a woman for almost a year (anniversary is coming up soon), I still have a few female friends with whom I go out every couple of months to check out new restaurants (fellow foodies) or new music venues that if they turn out to be good places, I will take my lady love to. The same with my GF, she also has male friends she goes out with to check out new places that later she and I will go to. The most important thing is that we know who these friends are, where they live and their phone numbers. There are no secret 'friends' between us.

If you can do the same, then more power to you.


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## Saffron

Badblood said:


> Saffron, I am NOT going to sit home, suffer, cry, or beat my chest in sorrow. I DIDN'T CHEAT!! Why should I suffer any more than I already am? I am making the conscious decision to move on, to go beyond the affair. If she proves herself, she can come with me. If she can't, then I will pass her by. I am not going to be married to a woman I have to worry about or mistrust. She has to change, not me. If we had problems in the marriage, I wasn't aware of it, and she NEVER tried to communicate any issues she had, to me. But none of this is relevant, until the affair is dealt with. There are two different dynamics. First....the affair has to be dealt with to MY satisfaction. Second....we rebuild our marriage together. My dating other women, is more for my benefit than anything else. I enjoy socializing, ands see no reason why I shouldn't continue to do so. I am not stupid, I know better than to get involved with someone else, at this time, but I also see no reason to deny myself some cordial, non-sexual entertainment. If another woman does interest me, I will certainly tell both the woman and my wife. I have NEVER, nor will I ever, attempt to deceive anybody.


I doubt any of us are sitting at home crying and beating our chests in sorrow after being betrayed. Part of the 180 is improving ourselves to be better people, not for the benefit of our cheating spouse but for ourselves. Getting hobbies, taking classes, or working on our careers are all great ways to get out and heal. Dating other women is just entertainment and will not help you heal, but it may help you forget temporarily.

Regardless of the affair or the state of your marriage prior to the affair, life is a work in progress and a repair project. We could all use improvement. No one is perfect and anyone could benefit from positive changes in their life. The benefits wouldn't be for your wife, but for you to heal and have positive influences in your life after going through a devastating experience.

Honestly, I don't think you can deal with the affair and the marriage as two separate dynamices. They are fundamentally tied together. She had the affair while married to you. Whatever motivated her to have an affair is 100% based on something within her, but the factors in the marriage still played a role in her bad decisions.

Also, you will never trust your wife like you did the day you married her and you can never know if it will ever happen again. It's a different marriage now, you can't go back to the way it was or the way you felt. However, the same may go for anyone you date or have a relationship with in the future. Before d-day many of us trusted blindly, afterwards many of us never will again. If you ever believe 100% that your partner will NEVER cheat on you, then you're setting yourself up to be hurt again. One can never know for sure and it's best to live life knowing that infidelity is _always_ a possibility. It's why we can never get complacent in our relationships and should always stay vigilant. 

I equate d-day to be like taking the red pill a la The Matrix. The world may seem a little uglier, but it's real. Some people prefer to take the blue pill again and go back to believing what they want to believe. Not sure if that makes me sound bitter, but I can never go back to they way I was prior to d-day. Nor do I want too.


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## Saffron

I should clarify that if dating these woman is for friendship and support, that's different than going out just for $#!ts and giggles and an ego boost. A good support network is great for healing during this time. If you have friends you can talk to about this, you should reach out to them.


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## sadcalifornian

Saffron said:


> I equate d-day to be like taking the red pill a la The Matrix. The world may seem a little uglier, but it's real. Some people prefer to take the blue pill again and go back to believing what they want to believe. Not sure if that makes me sound bitter, but I can never go back to they way I was prior to d-day. Nor do I want too.


I like this analogy.


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## morituri

BTW some of my female friends were women I met while I was still in pain of my ex-wife's betrayal. They were a great moral support network who helped me in changing my mindset from that of despair to one of promise and hope.


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## Jellybeans

Saffron ... great comparison to the Matrix.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold

Catherine602 said:


> She gets a life sentence of slavery to you for the crime of cheating. I think I'd rather be stoned to death.
> 
> Hate is the most destructive emotion resist the desire to let it seap into your mind and soul.
> 
> Just let her go. She is not a criminal because she cheated and you are in no position to be her judge, jury and jailer. It is difficult to act in a measured, mature and controlled fashion in the face of a massive betrayal, but you must. Not for her but for you. If you seriously entertain even presenting these conditions to her, you may want to stop and look at yourself and your attitude towards people in general and women in particular. From your post, you seem to relate to women in reference to how well they prop up your ego.
> 
> Lighten up, for God's sake. The man is angry. His wife just laid what most therapists call the "most extreme form of emotional abuse " on him. You expect him to be rational, kind, Ghandi-llike at this point. Her abuse is terrible and he is the victim.
> He's venting, for Chrtist sake. Most of us have done it.
> For you to extrapolate all your defensive views about the big, bad female hater is abusrd.
> Try a little empathy.He has had his world turned upside down. Do you seriously beleive he intends to hold this over his wife's head forever, if she shows real remorse.
> 
> The "beautiful, white, VP" wants you are you sure or is it important that you feel you attract the cream of the crop or someone with quality that you covet. The woman you are using to get back at your wife. A man who can use women like chest pawns has to be quite divorced from the virtures of empathy. You have been injured and you can bear to injure others at this point? This woman has done nothing to you leave her out.
> 
> You're seem acomplished at vindictive, and , enranged. have you had much practice?. If so, Have you explored the tendencies on your relationships with women. Betrayed spouses think of doing the things you are doing but most are wise enough not to get carried away with hate. Once you let it permeate your thoughts and actions it is like a parasite that shiphons off your character, happiness and focus. Dont go there, you will become it's slave. Paradoxically, you will be controlled and enslaved by your wife because hate is the mirror of love. Your thoughts and life will be consumed with your wife she will be part of your life until you let go.
> 
> Walk away clean with your dignity and future possibility to improve your ability to forgive and maybe have a loving relationship. You think now you can do this with no consequences hate kills you ability to be happy and to love. It shows on your face and encases you in a pall.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold

Sorry my comment got inserte into the body of Catherine's tread. But, really, it is just outrageous to attack someone as she just did , when that person has just had his world destroyed. Have a problem with men and empathy, Catehrine?


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## Badblood

I allowed her into the house today to get some of her things, and she practically got down on her knees to beg forgiveness. She says that she will prove herself worthy, and has already asked for and gotten a transfer to the home office, so she will not be traveling again. She gave me her credit cards, phone, and PC. So now what the f**k am I supposed to do? I pay ALL of our bills so I will know what she spends and where and why it was spent. I have her ATM/ debit card, so now I will have to give her an allowance, every week. This is turning into a huge pain-in-the-a**!!! She went to confession, and has been absolved, and said today, " I am your maid, until I can be your wife again". WTF is that supposed to mean? GEEZ


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## the guy

At least you'll have a clean house.LOL
I think its all that submissive thing I mentioned earlier. In my case my W gave here self completely to me. I'm thinking your wife is trying to do the same IDK?
It just sound so fimilar......I think she is reaching for what ever she can to get you back.


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## the guy

One more thing welcome to the cheaters police academy. Is this were your wife gets here stuff back after her sentence is served.

I have to give her credit, she is trying.


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## morituri

She's throwing herself on the mercy of the court from the looks of it.


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## Badblood

Maybe so, but it makes it much harder on me. She said that she will obey what I say, even if it means divorce. That my healing is the most important thing to her, right now, and she will do everything to help me over this. She has agreed to counseling, and says she is looking forward to it, as she is sure that the assault issues she has is what lead her to make such bad choices. Some of the crap is new to me. She had never told me about her childhood, and I never asked. Hell, I didn't know that anything like this existed. Her ex-husband once told me that she was frigid, but I never saw any evidence of it. Our sex life was great. She told me that I am the only man to give her the big "O". I wondered if she was just shmoozing me, so I had the polygraph examiner ask her about it and he said that she was telling the truth. SO, WHY DID SHE CHEAT? If it isn't about the sex, then what is it about? This is beyond a doubt, the most frustrating and annoying thing I have ever had to deal with. It makes me crazy, trying to understand.


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## jnj express

Your wife is doing everything she can, to make the mge., work----BUT------

No matter what she does, do not take her back, until she does what is necessary to actually find out WHY she did give herself to the other man

Whatever is broken, MUST BE FIXED, before you consider moving on with her, or at some point she will cheat again


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## morituri

Childhood sexual assault? Now why am I not surprised. A rape counselor once told me that many victims of rape are susceptible to having an affair(s) if they don't receive the proper therapy to help them process properly their trauma so they can transcend it and lead as much of a normal life as possible. Your wife, like my ex-wife, kept secret from you the trauma of her past. Ironically, her betrayal has brought its own assault like trauma to you. That it is why it is paramount that your number one priority should be your emotional healing no matter what the outcome of your marriage is. I underwent therapy to help me process the trauma of seeing real life video of my ex-wife having sex with a POSOM. Since you also saw first hand evidence of your wife having had sex with a POSOM, please seriously consider some sort of cognitive therapy for yourself, and possibly your wife as well.


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## Badblood

The trouble is, Morituri, that I don't know if all of this can be done before the divorce is final. I am keeping to my timetable. I am NOT going to deal with this issue one moment longer than I have to. I have always been a stand-up guy, and am willing to work with people to solve their problems, but this is MY marriage, and I will either see it fixed and the affair consigned to the past, or end it in the timeframe that is mandated by the laws of my state. I love my wife, but perhaps not enough to go the distance with her. If this had been a disease, like cancer, I would have been there for her to the death. I would have sacrificed anything and everything for her up to and including my own life. Or maybe the question should be what will she do to fix what she broke, including the childhood issues she has? How much is she willing to make amends, and what will she sacrifice to regain her lost honor? She says that she will do anything, will jump through any hoops I tell her to, will get whatever counseling she needs and will tell me ALL of her past history, literally everything , if it will help me heal. I guess time will tell.


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## morituri

Badblood I am not telling you to hold off on your divorce time frame only to consider getting therapy for you and your wife. The divorce can still proceed while the therapy is continuing. What is paramount is that you heal no matter what the outcome of the marriage is. It is sometimes said that a pain shared is a pain divided, maybe this is such a case.


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## Badblood

Morituri, I will heal just fine, as long as either she proves herself and the marriage changes for the better, or she doesn't and the marriage ends. I am far more frustrated by the interim than by either ending.


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## morituri

Your healing should be independent of whether or not the marriage ends. The marriage is secondary to your healing.


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## Sindo

Out of curiousity, what would it take for your wife to prove herself? Is there anything that she could be doing that she is not? Because from reading your posts, she is doing everything she can.

If there is nothing specifically that she can do to save the marriage, she should know. She shouldn't be made to chase after what is nothing more than a mirage.


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## lordmayhem

Sounds like this is a deal breaker for him. If they R after the D is over, then that would be fine. There's a few people that remarry each other after having been divorced.


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## morituri

Nothing wrong with it being a deal breaker for him, after all it was a deal breaker for me as well. My point is that he should consider therapy for himself since watching your wife having sex with another man is not something that is easily overcome (I should know this).


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## Badblood

Sindo said:


> Out of curiousity, what would it take for your wife to prove herself? Is there anything that she could be doing that she is not? Because from reading your posts, she is doing everything she can.
> 
> If there is nothing specifically that she can do to save the marriage, she should know. She shouldn't be made to chase after what is nothing more than a mirage.


Sindo, I will need absolute honesty and transparency, no private contact with ANY men,( ever), complete devotion to MY needs, open communication, IC, and total obedience for the time-frame I have decided upon. At the end of that time, I will either finalize the divorce or agree to a reconciliation. Divorce takes 6 to 8 months, so that is how much time she has. Also, I will periodically require her to be willing to take further polygraphs at my convience. I will believe nothing she says, but only her actions.


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## Arnold

Bad, you are rightfully pissed. This is a dealbreaker for most people, and many of those people are very kind, forgiving, generous etc. So, if this is a dealbreaker, it is no reflection on you or a deficiency on your part.
As part of my obsessive "research" on this, i came across a site by a woman named "Michelle Langely". She claimed to have done some follow up research with men who had decided to reamin in their marriages with an unfaithful wife. She found, in talking to theguys, that every single man regretted the decison at about the 2 year post discovery mark.
She theorized that the initial desire to remain stemmed from two motivations: fear and competetiveness.
The fear was of being alone, losing access to the kids, and financial concerns.
The competitveness was with the other man, as , at least initially, the guys wanted to "win" against him.
However, at about the two year mark, when these initial knee jerk motivations had dissipated, the men regretted staying. They resented their wives and did not trust them. the marriage was empty etc.
Now, I realize that the "pay for reconciliation" sites promote the idea that a very high % of marriages survive and thrive after infidelity. However, other sources that have no financial incentive in reporting, state that the "survivl rate" is about 30% and that about 70% of those relationships are characterized as unhappy. So, if you buy those stats, about 9% happily married.


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## Badblood

Arnold, I hear what you're saying. I have researched a lot of these reconciliation sites, and the one thing that always struck me, was that those betrayed spouses who were forgiving and conciliatory, almost always end up divorced, or in unhappy and mistrustful marriages, and it seems to take years for them to get over the affair. Many posters have gotten on me for being tough on my wife, and have called me "hate-filled", etc. They should consider this; if I didn't love my wife, I would NEVER have given her a second chance, would I? I am making it very tough on her, on purpose. Not to be cruel, but to be sure that after 8 months, I will KNOW, beyond doubt, one of two things. Either my wife is MINE, body, mind, and soul, or that she can never be trusted and I will divorce her and look for a better woman. Remember, NONE of this HAD to happen, if she had been faithful, in the first place.


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## Arnold

Bad, a woman LCP. specializing in infidelity counseling, contacte me after I put forth the theory that reconciliationwas not the be all and end all that some sites claimed. I cam under a bit of attack, as I often advocated divorce, when it was either aparent that it was adealbreaker for the betrayed, or when the cheater showed no remorse.
This women told me that in her practice, she found that betrayed folks who divorced healed faxter and were, in general, healthier mentally. She said that the folks for whom this was a dealbreaker had more firmly entrenched values, and they doubted themselves less. She also said that , by and large, they went on to form healthier relationships down the road with better partners, as they had educated themselves on the red flags indicating a proclivity to cheating in potential partners.
You sound very healthy, with good, firm values. You are not blaming yourself for this, as many BSs do. 
I wanted to try to reconcile with my XW, but was not given the chance, so, perhaps ny take on this is tainted by sour grapes.
But, I can tell you that divorced life is much more peaceful and full of hpe for me than I had in my marriage. It is a good, fufilling life.


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## Badblood

Arnie, I am well aware that life without this sh*tstorm would be a more peaceful existance , for sure. I feel like I'm doing OK, but the true healing will come with time. I did weaken last night , though. She came over dressed to kill and we had sex......several times. She is soooo hot, and was really kinky. She brought a set of handcuffs and a cane for me to whip my "loveslave", with. Damn and wow. That's part of the trouble. She turns me on like a radio.


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## sadcalifornian

Badblood said:


> Arnie, I am well aware that life without this sh*tstorm would be a more peaceful existance , for sure. I feel like I'm doing OK, but the true healing will come with time. I did weaken last night , though. She came over dressed to kill and we had sex......several times. She is soooo hot, and was really kinky. She brought a set of handcuffs and a cane for me to whip my "loveslave", with. Damn and wow. That's part of the trouble. She turns me on like a radio.


Affair or no affair, with sex being that good, I say you keep her, bro!


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> I did weaken last night , though. She came over dressed to kill and we had sex......several times. She is soooo hot, and was really kinky. She brought a set of handcuffs and a cane for me to whip my "loveslave", with. Damn and wow. That's part of the trouble. She turns me on like a radio.


It's called hysterical bonding and it is very common right after D-day.

Careful. Just because you have sex with her she shouldn't get the idea that 'all is forgiven'. I hope that you were straight with her with regards to that.


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## Arnold

Wow. She sounds a little crazy. But,glad you had a decent time. You deserve it. 
I expect she is breaking out her full arsenal. Tyr to approach this rationally. Envision whether you can get past it.
I met a really nice guy on the driving range and we talked about this. He divorced his wife, despite her obvious remorse. Guy was a really good looking black guy, good athlete. He would have other options, I am sure.
He told me "Arnold, I know myself. I am a nice guy. I want to be nice to my woman. And, I know the resentment I feel about this would not allow that. I do not want this to make me something I am not. I needed to just get away from her."


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## Badblood

Morturi, way ahead of you there. I told her point blank that it doesn't matter how much we f**k, sex is not a replacement for love and trust, and the divorce goes on. Besides the sex, however, she ASKED for some money to pay some bills, and cleaned the house, in nothing but an apron. MG, she is a sight to behold, when stripped down. She told me that she will do anything I want her to do, in bed or out. A few things have happened that I've not said anything about. 1. She starts IC next Monday and told her counselor to give ME an update and answer any questions I might have. IDK if it is legal or not for a counselor to be answering questions about a client, but she will as long as it's OK with my wife and according to the law. . I went to see the OM last week and informed him what I would do to him if he ever had ANY contact with my wife. He was properly afraid. Frankly, I don't know what she saw in him. He is way older, fatter, and poorer than I am on my worst days. I am pretty well endowed, so unless he has a **** or a tongue a foot long, I don't get it. During the poly, my wife stated that the sex wasn't very good and that she never came close to having the Big "O", so I don't get it?


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## aug

Badblood said:


> Morturi, way ahead of you there. I told her point blank that it doesn't matter how much we f**k, sex is not a replacement for love and trust, and the divorce goes on. Besides the sex, however, she ASKED for some money to pay some bills, and cleaned the house, in nothing but an apron. MG, she is a sight to behold, when stripped down. She told me that she will do anything I want her to do, in bed or out. A few things have happened that I've not said anything about. 1. She starts IC next Monday and told her counselor to give ME an update and answer any questions I might have. IDK if it is legal or not for a counselor to be answering questions about a client, but she will as long as it's OK with my wife and according to the law. . I went to see the OM last week and informed him what I would do to him if he ever had ANY contact with my wife. He was properly afraid. Frankly, I don't know what she saw in him. He is way older, fatter, and poorer than I am on my worst days. I am pretty well endowed, so unless he has a **** or a tongue a foot long, I don't get it. During the poly, my wife stated that the sex wasn't very good and that she never came close to having the Big "O", so I don't get it?




handcuffs, cane as a whip, maid in the nude...

childhood assault...


Something is not right here.


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## Badblood

aug said:


> handcuffs, cane as a whip, maid in the nude...
> 
> childhood assault...
> 
> 
> Something is not right here.


You're telling me? That's the way it is. Her ex-husband said that she was frigid. Other men who know her socially have said that she is an "ice queen", but I haven't ever seen any evidence of that. With me she is a wild woman. IDK how she was with the OM, but I really don't want to know. Her Ex was far richer than me, white, and super respectable. The OM was fat, old and worth about a buck and a half. So what is the story? I don't know, but I'm going to find out.


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## Arnold

She does sound completely F'd in the head, Bad. Amybe you caught a break and got a get out of jail free card. Folks understand divorcing due to infidelity and you can walk away with their sympathy.
Also, she may be so nuts that she can pass a poly, even if she has had other affairs.
Also, be sure she has had STD testing. Some of those diseases cannot be detected for months after exposure. So, are you sure you want to be having sex ith her this soon?


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## Badblood

No, she isn't crazy, but she does have issues that I am only just now learning about. From the Poly and also from talking to her Mom, she was very seriously abused by her father, when she was a young girl. Not sexual, but verbal and physical. Apparently including a very rigid lifestyle, reinforced by frequent beatings. This was one of the main reasons her mom divorced him, and remarried to her stepdad. I was oblivious to all of this except that she had a stepfather, of course. One of the things that gives me some hope, is that she loves me enough to truly work on her issues. The threat of our divorcing has opened the lines of communication, somewhat, and she is telling me all of this new information, because of her terror that she might lose me.


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## Arnold

Double check what she says it mau be complete BS.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> Frankly, I don't know what she saw in him. He is way older, fatter, and poorer than I am on my worst days. I am pretty well endowed, so unless he has a **** or a tongue a foot long, I don't get it. During the poly, my wife stated that the sex wasn't very good and that she never came close to having the Big "O", so I don't get it?
> 
> The OM was fat, old and worth about a buck and a half. So what is the story? I don't know, but I'm going to find out.


Not saying that this explains it but the fact that your wife is 43 years old, an age when many women go through a sexual awakening and become the female equivalent of horny 18 year old boys. Add to it a MLC (mid life crisis) where she begins to have serious doubts about her sexual desirability from men. And top it off with the opportunity to have a fling with another man who is feeding his desire for her.

Many women are very insecure about their bodies/body image, even when we - the men in their lives - tell them that they are gorgeous and truly mean it. Some go outside their marriage seeking validation from other men because they don't trust/believe when their husbands/boyfriends tell them they are beautiful. This desire for outside validation becomes all consuming for these women.

So it doesn't surprise me that your wife wasn't interested in the looks of her lover because it wasn't so much that, or his lengthy 'personality' that she was craving from him but what he represented, an unbiased validation of her as a sexually desirable woman.


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## Badblood

Morituri, I think there is a lot in what you say. She told me that she had begun to think about ending the affair almost as soon as it began. Or AFTER she had gotten what she wanted which was another man to tell her that she is beautiful. I truly think that she needs (or needed) a lot of validation. Add to that her relationship with her father (he showed her very little love, but a lot of anger) and she has some serious self-image problems. The affair and subsequent fallout has lowered it even further. Now , in her mind, she isn't either beautiful or a good , honest woman, but a cheap wh*re. This is what she calls herself, not my words. She fully realizes that she will be judged by both families, friends, co-workers, and associates, and is just now waking up to all of the damage she has done. But as I said before, she is a strong, determined woman, and totally filled with remorse, so she will undoubtedly give 1,000% to redeem herself and prove that this affair was a horrible lack of judgement.


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## Almostrecovered

boy did this one go crazy since I was away on my business trip


your wife, like mine did, has become hypersexual


I say take the good with the bad and enjoy the sex, you are certainly wary enough that I won't warn you about false R


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## Almostrecovered

Badblood said:


> a cheap wh*re. This is what she calls herself, not my words.


sounds exactly like my wife's reaction post affair


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## madwoman

WOW, I feel so bad for you.

Tell the family to bug off. You are grieving, and when you do it is at your pace. That is an unforgivable betrayal. I don't think you need me to tell you you have every right to be ANGRY, and forgiveness is important, but it is in your time, not theirs. You have to find solid ground under your feet, and stop from the reeling before you can decide if you want to give her another chance.

If they call you, is she telling them what her side of the story is? That's wrong, and she needs to stop if she is. 

Take your time. Make your hard decisions when your not so angry. Consider individual counseling, so you can get past the anger, and work on finding your feet again. 

Good luck to you.


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## morituri

Your last post clearly shows why she needs individual therapy. There is another forum member, LostCPA, who is divorcing his remorseful serial affair wife but will help her get the individual therapy she wants and needs so that she can once again become the mother his sons need. You may still divorce your wife but yet choose to help her in helping herself to become an emotionally healthy woman. You are under no obligation to do so of course. 

In regards to your wife's childhood. The importance of a good father in a girl's life is often undervalued by society. There are studies that show that a father can help his daughter to become an emotionally healthy, strong and independent woman. This woman in turn will not settle for any man but will choose one that has many of the same qualities her father has. Sadly many women did not have a good relationship with their fathers - or even had a father - and struggle later in life to attain that strength but only after so much painful and sometimes tragic trial and error.


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## Catherine602

This is so disturbing. Granted you have been betrayed but what you are doing more than mitigates whatever injury you have endured from her. Without a commitment to the relationship you accept being serviced. Is it easy for you to do that, is that what love is to you? You are using her for sex so you lose the high ground and i think you owe her a debt now, a big one.

This is a blatant example of capitalizing on a woman history of abuse. You can certainly forgo, sexual pleasure in case you are doing the woman you love further pychological injury. You may as well masturbate with yourself instead of using her body parts. Wouldnt that be an honorable way to treat a fellow human with feeling just like you? There appears to be no love but a disturbing need to take revenge by a person who does not have her best interst at heart. a person is is certainly not in any moral position to judge her. You are doing worse than cheating. 

I think you are headed for trouble. This seems to be the way you view women and you will certainly not attract a woman who will give you the love and acceptance you crave. 

It is not surprising that so many male poster support your entitlement to use her. This is the fear of countless women - a man who says he loves and connects throuflgh sex hides the real nature of the meaning of sex. Does not have anything to do with love. 

My advice is to use this opportunity to develope character and a set of principals that a man of quality would have. Stop using your wife let her prove her commitment without serving you like a [email protected] Have some self respect as a man and act like a leader which is the quality that a mature fully realized man should have. 

This is a rant and may be unfair. But I see things from your wife's point of view and I feel so very sorry for her. She selects men very badly, poor lady. I pray she get therapy and leaves this horror. 

Read Shamwow post about his journey to divorcing his WW. He is doing very well has regained his footing very rapidly because he acted in an exemplary fashion towards his WS. He seems to be a wonderful principled man and the quality women he comes in contact with see that. Why not follow his example.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold

:lol::lol::lol: Holy smokes. Pass me that joint.


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## Almostrecovered

Catherine602 said:


> This is so disturbing. Granted you have been betrayed but what you are doing more than mitigates whatever injury you have endured from her. Without a commitment to the relationship you accept being serviced. Is it easy for you to do that, is that what love is to you? You are using her for sex so you lose the high ground and i think you owe her a debt now, a big one.
> 
> This is a blatant example of capitalizing on a woman history of abuse. You can certainly forgo, sexual pleasure in case you are doing the woman you love further pychological injury. You may as well masturbate with yourself instead of using her body parts. Wouldnt that be an honorable way to treat a fellow human with feeling just like you? There appears to be no love but a disturbing need to take revenge by a person who does not have her best interst at heart. a person is is certainly not in any moral position to judge her. You are doing worse than cheating.
> 
> I think you are headed for trouble. This seems to be the way you view women and you will certainly not attract a woman who will give you the love and acceptance you crave.
> 
> It is not surprising that so many male poster support your entitlement to use her. This is the fear of countless women - a man who says he loves and connects throuflgh sex hides the real nature of the meaning of sex. Does not have anything to do with love.
> 
> My advice is to use this opportunity to develope character and a set of principals that a man of quality would have. Stop using your wife let her prove her commitment without serving you like a [email protected] Have some self respect as a man and act like a leader which is the quality that a mature fully realized man should have.
> 
> This is a rant and may be unfair. But I see things from your wife's point of view and I feel so very sorry for her. She selects men very badly, poor lady. I pray she get therapy and leaves this horror.
> 
> Read Shamwow post about his journey to divorcing his WW. He is doing very well has regained his footing very rapidly because he acted in an exemplary fashion towards his WS. He seems to be a wonderful principled man and the quality women he comes in contact with see that. Why not follow his example.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I disagree with most of what you say here

I will state that having a revenge affair is very wrong and I think BadBlood should stop keeping that as a viable option
and having R for children alone is a poor idea

but in no way do I feel sorry for his wife for the poor choices she has made for the affair and I see nothing wrong with hyperbonding with sex during R (and this does NOT mean she is acting like a wh0re if she is getting freaky with her husband UNLESS she is merely doing it to keep him happy while she continues to cheat) In some ways I think BadBlood is being more honest than most betrayed spouses by letting her know his feelings on what it will take for him take her back.


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## morituri

Catherine, I think you are being extremley unfair to Badblood because there are a lot of betrayed wives who have also succumbed to having 'hysterical bonding' sex with their cheating husbands in a moment of weakness. 

Their cheating husbands probably have crappy childhoods just as bad Badblood's wife - maybe even worse - yet nobody takes sympathy on them, why is that? 

Where are the voices of people saying to these betrayed wives that they are capitalizing on their cheating husbands broken psyche? or even saying something as ludicrous as:



> But I see things from your (cheating) husband's point of view and I feel so very sorry for him. He selects women very badly, poor gentleman. I pray he gets therapy and leaves this horror


He didn't seek out his wife to have sex with her, SHE came to him using sex as a manipulation tool to get him to reconsider divorcing her. Tell me who is capitalizing on who?

I'm sorry but I must strongly disagree with your 'blame the victim' comments.


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## Badblood

Catherine602 said:


> This is so disturbing. Granted you have been betrayed but what you are doing more than mitigates whatever injury you have endured from her. Without a commitment to the relationship you accept being serviced. Is it easy for you to do that, is that what love is to you? You are using her for sex so you lose the high ground and i think you owe her a debt now, a big one.
> 
> This is a blatant example of capitalizing on a woman history of abuse. You can certainly forgo, sexual pleasure in case you are doing the woman you love further pychological injury. You may as well masturbate with yourself instead of using her body parts. Wouldnt that be an honorable way to treat a fellow human with feeling just like you? There appears to be no love but a disturbing need to take revenge by a person who does not have her best interst at heart. a person is is certainly not in any moral position to judge her. You are doing worse than cheating.
> 
> I think you are headed for trouble. This seems to be the way you view women and you will certainly not attract a woman who will give you the love and acceptance you crave.
> 
> It is not surprising that so many male poster support your entitlement to use her. This is the fear of countless women - a man who says he loves and connects throuflgh sex hides the real nature of the meaning of sex. Does not have anything to do with love.
> 
> My advice is to use this opportunity to develope character and a set of principals that a man of quality would have. Stop using your wife let her prove her commitment without serving you like a [email protected] Have some self respect as a man and act like a leader which is the quality that a mature fully realized man should have.
> 
> This is a rant and may be unfair. But I see things from your wife's point of view and I feel so very sorry for her. She selects men very badly, poor lady. I pray she get therapy and leaves this horror.
> 
> Read Shamwow post about his journey to divorcing his WW. He is doing very well has regained his footing very rapidly because he acted in an exemplary fashion towards his WS. He seems to be a wonderful principled man and the quality women he comes in contact with see that. Why not follow his example.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine, you are mistaken on so many fronts that it's hard to identify individual mistakes. 1. SHE initiated the sex, not me. 2. SHE brought the "toys", with her, and asked me to use them. I didn't want to, at first, but she was very persuasive. 3. You are blatantly projecting your false prejudices on me and I deserve NONE of it. I have NEVER treated her or any other woman with anything less than respect. There are at least 25 women , in my office who would laugh at your insulting insinuations. I have lived my life around independent , confident women (my Mom is a HS Principal, both of my sisters are degreed professional women) and the thought that ANYONE would call me abusive is insulting to the extreme. You are free to give advice, but not to call me names. Re-read your last post, and tell me who is being abusive and insulting, me or you.


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## Badblood

Morituri, I agree 100%. Regardless of the continuation or discontinuation of our marriage, I love my wife , and am committed to seeing that she has proper therapy, to rid herself of her deep-seated issues. I STILL want her to be a happy and well-adjusted person.


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## Soccerfan73

So this guy having sex with his wife is "abusive"? 

He didn't say "If you give it up I'll forgive you baby". 

Wow.


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## Badblood

Well, I allowed her to stay the night, tonight, after a lot of begging and promises of a great breakfast. We talked a lot about the affair, and she was very forthcoming about it. She told me almost exactly what Morituri said, that the OM validated her beauty, and she is afraid that she is getting old. She said that she never meant it to get physical at first, but got drunk with him and she felt like she owed it to him to have sex. I called bull**** on that, but it's no matter now. She cried almost all evening , saying how filthy and vile she felt, and that the other times, she just felt like a wh*re, and didn't care about herself anymore. She is way more concerned about me and what she calls her treachery to me. She promises that she will find out the reasons for her behavior and change, and that she would understand if I decided to f**k every woman I see, and kick her to the curb, but that she will prove herself worthy, if I decide not to divorce, but if I do, she will love me forever, and never stop pleading for forgiveness.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> Well, I allowed her to stay the night, tonight, after a lot of begging and promises of a great breakfast. We talked a lot about the affair, and she was very forthcoming about it. She told me almost exactly what Morituri said, that the OM validated her beauty, and she is afraid that she is getting old. She said that she never meant it to get physical at first, but got drunk with him and *she felt like she owed it to him to have sex.* I called bull**** on that, but it's no matter now.


Don't discard this explanation just yet. Consider for a minute that if she was desperately seeking outside validation from another man (_because of her fears of growing old and being alone_) and the POSOM gave her just that, she would be as grateful to him for providing that validation just as a thirsty woman in a desert would be to a man who had just given her a drink of water. Sex became her way of paying him for the validation he provided.

One other thing that caught my attention was the fact that she chose a much older man to provide her with that validation. With her beauty she could have easily attracted a much younger man with a killer body, but instead she chose an out of shape, older man, why? A father figure. This POSOM may have also provided a desire to feel loved by a father figure in lieu of her tragic childhood with a physically and emotionally abusive father.



> She cried almost all evening , saying how filthy and vile she felt, and that the other times, she just felt like a wh*re, and didn't care about herself anymore. She is way more concerned about me and what she calls her treachery to me. She promises that she will find out the reasons for her behavior and change, and that she would understand if I decided to f**k every woman I see, and kick her to the curb, but that she will prove herself worthy, if I decide not to divorce, but if I do, she will love me forever, and never stop pleading for forgiveness.


She seems genuinely remorseful but that doesn't change the fact that she's got serious psychological issues that she must address and resolve through individual therapy. Forget the marriage, she needs professional help. By showing her your love and compassion, you may just end up helping yourself to heal in the process.


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## Badblood

I have already told her that whether or not we divorce, I would always be supportive of her, while she is undergoing therapy, and that if anything good comes from this, it will be that she learns how to cope with her past and deal with her issues in an appropriate manner. Funny thing, when I said this, she was all over me sobbing and saying that I'm the only man she has ever loved, or will ever love, and that if it takes her lifetime , she will make me proud of her.


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## Badblood

An update on my situation. I found out Friday that my wife is still in contact with the OM. She e-mailed him. Needless to say , I am finished with the whole thing. I told her that same night , that there would be no re-conciliation, and for her to get her things out of my house this week. She didn't try to hide the e-mails and they were innocent, merely re-interating her decision to not see or talk to him again, but that isn't good enough for me. I specifically told her there was to be no further contact with him, ever. She felt she "owed it to him", to explain her decision. Not nearly good enough. I feel that she owes him nothing, and me everything, and so it's over.


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## Badblood

I will now consider myself a free man, and date and f**k whomever I please.


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## Arnold

I think you are doing the right thing. How much more clear could you have been. Yet, she still decided to contact the guy. You would never be able to trust this woman. No one would.


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## morituri

I guess that there is nothing left to say but good luck.


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## Shaggy

Good job being strong, some would say you are being too rigid, but think about it. This woman is your wife. She is saying that he needs to explain to the 
OM why se can't cheat with him. That she owes him! No, she does not owe him, and the fact that she is married is all the explanation needed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

She could have avoided all this by talking to you first about sending a NC email to POSOM with you present when she sent it. But she knew that she was on a very short leash and that ANY solo communication between her to the OM was a deal breaker.

There is no obligation on the part of any betrayed spouse to take back his/her cheating spouse. You sir went above and beyond the call of duty of most betrayed husbands. You have every right to move on with your life as you see fit with your head held up high.


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## Shaggy

Yeah, what she was doing was fishing to see if in the future there could still be something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Brandon455 said:


> Neither of us cheated, before . We worked together, in the same office, and during normal daily routine, realized that we had a lot in common, but we were scrupulous in not flirting or anything until after our divorces. Hers was final, before mine was, so during that time, we had as little contact as possible.


Who are you? I read your other posts and you seem to be a woman but in this post you obviously are a man. Are you a husband and wife posting under a single account?:scratchhead:


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## jnj express

Why is it the cheating spouse always thinks they owe, the scum who helped them wreck the lives of all around them, an explanation, and a good-bye

I know the scum is still locked firmly in their mind, and they, in many cases can't just end it it cold turkey----but they owe the scum who helped them perpetrate this destruction, nothing whatsoever, and that includes, no good-bye, and no explanation

They just do not seem to understand NC, means just that NC----I guess the cheater just thinks they can do whatever they please, and if they say I'm sorry, that's good enuff------I'm sorry---there's a couple of pathetic words, that mean nothing, in these types of situations!!!!!!!


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## aug

So your wife thinks she has a healthy connection with the OM and wants to close the relationship friendly? This action shows she still does not understand the damage caused and any remorse she had shown the past few days was not genuine.


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## morituri

Women rarely have sex without some emotional investment involved. That is why the betrayed husband must grow a pair and be willing to divorce his cheating wife if she can't end her affair and bend over backwards to win back her husband's trust.

Let's face it, your wife is addicted to the outside validation of other men because of her issues. This means that she is not fit to be anybody's wife. Your best course of action is to divorce her.


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## Almostrecovered

sorry to hear that

I told my wife that if she had "closure" with OM then she would have closure with me too, she came damn close to doing it too but pulled back at the last minute


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## Badblood

I began the process of packing her things up, tonight, and it is really hard to say goodbye to 18 years of involvement. I have made the decision to look forward to the future, and consign her to the past. I have told her family that I will still consider them friends and my step-kids will still be my kids, even after the divorce. Needless to say, she has been burning up the phone, e-mail and texting like crazy trying to explain away her actions, but now I think that even her parents realize that she needs help. I told her that I would be there for her as a friend, if she chose to continue therapy, and I think that is about all I can do. What do you people think? I really am trying to make this transition as painless and courteous as possible.


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## morituri

I think that despite your anger and disappointment in her, you still care very much for her - otherwise you wouldn't be wanting to help her to resolve her issues. Just tread carefully, if you don't then your feelings for her may still win out over your reason and that would not be beneficial to either you or her.


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## Badblood

Morituri, after 18 years, of course I still care. I still care for my ex-wife, too, but that doesn't mean I would go back to her. I DO, however, want both of them to be happy and well adjusted. I am really surprised how well I seem to be dealing with all of this fallout. I have another date with the same Lady from last week, and it looks very promising. She is very mature, intelligent, but loads of fun, and hotter than a two-dollar pistol (like my Daddy used to say) and is really into being with me. She was one of the voices that advised me to give my wife another chance, so she has no axe to grind and says she is willing to be FWB with me , until my divorce is final.


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## morituri

Rarely are women satisfied to remain simply a man's fvck buddy.


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## warlock07

Badblood, is it possible that she misunderstood the NC boundaries? If the mail was to point and she did not try to hide it, I see no bad intentions here. She definitely does not have decent decision making capabilities(as evident from the affair). But I can see that it might be honest mistake or a bad judgement call. Get rid of the anger(Maybe in a week) and think again.


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## Badblood

Warlock, so what do I do the next time this happens? How is she ever going to understand the enormity of her f**k-up, if I keep on giving her more chances? The only way for me to keep MY self-esteem and integrity is by following through with my actions. I told her explicitly that she had one chance, and one chance only, and NC was one of the stipulations. I am NOT going to go through the next ????? years, worrying about a wife that can't be faithful even to herself and her promises. I have read many stories about BS'S being Trickle-truthed , affairs going "underground", the "fog", and other nonsense, and I, quite simply, will not have any of it.


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## Arnold

A very wisw position, Bad. Chances are she will repeat(as she has already done).
I know it is trite, but " the best predictor of future behavior is...."


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## Badblood

Some very bad news. My wife is in the hospital under suicide watch. She attempted to do herself in, yesterday morning. She has been trying to contact me since I told her that I would not take her back. She maintains that the only reason she contacted the OM was to give him and herself closure. I can't be sure about anything, right now, but that I want her to recover and be able to get control of the demons she has. WAs it a real attempt or a grandstand play to stop the divorce? IDK, but I feel like I have been hit by a truck.


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## Dadof3

So sorry for you and your W, Badblood. 

Don't know what else to say, other than I hope she recovers, and u decide what to do.


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## aug

I dont understand the closure part also.

Your wife and the OM were caught in the act. She mention the OM was only interested in a casual sex relationship. She said she wants to stay with you and agreed to your conditions.

Wasnt getting caught not closure enough? Was their relationship actually stronger than FWB that she couldn't just walk away without looking back?


Maybe the OM should take care of her now?


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> Some very bad news. My wife is in the hospital under suicide watch. She attempted to do herself in, yesterday morning. She has been trying to contact me since I told her that I would not take her back. She maintains that the only reason she contacted the OM was to give him and herself closure. I can't be sure about anything, right now, but that I want her to recover and be able to get control of the demons she has. WAs it a real attempt or a grandstand play to stop the divorce? IDK, but I feel like I have been hit by a truck.


Talk about deja vu Badblood. You, me and ahhhman have wives or ex-wives who have been hospitalized under suicide watch after D-day.

My advice to you is to fight the urge to contact her. My ex-wife's doctor told me that any contact between us would set her back. That in order for her to heal that she would have to face the reality that she and I were no longer going to be a couple. Since I still cared for her well being greatly, I chose not to contact her though it hurt like hell for me not to do so.

Feel free to contact me.


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## Badblood

Aug, she is still my wife, and as long as she is, I will do all that is humanly possible to keep her safe and well. Even if this was a grandstand play, it is still an act of desperation, and should not be taken lightly. If I had only known about her issues before this, I could have done something. In 15 years of marriage she has never mentioned any traumatic experiences, before now. Her mom has filled me in about her Dad's abuse. She is a wounded person, no doubt, and I just can't leave her in such a situation.


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## snap

Badblood, it could not be a worse timing for you, but you're making the right choice. Not even for her, but for your personal integrity.


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## warlock07

Does the suicide attempt change anything?


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## Sindo

I wonder if, in her mind, this was her last chance to go the wall and prove herself. Or maybe it was a genuine suicide attempt? Scary either way.



Badblood said:


> Aug, she is still my wife, and as long as she is, I will do all that is humanly possible to keep her safe and well. Even if this was a grandstand play, it is still an act of desperation, and should not be taken lightly. If I had only known about her issues before this, I could have done something. In 15 years of marriage she has never mentioned any traumatic experiences, before now. Her mom has filled me in about her Dad's abuse. She is a wounded person, no doubt, and I just can't leave her in such a situation.


Badblood, are you saying that you are going to hold off on the divorce?


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## Shaggy

You can help her get help - but you can't let her successfully use pulling the suicide card as a way to force you to accept her cheating, and her complete lack of common sense with her "I need closure" crap.

She's doing everything she can her to manipulate you. To get you to accept her having cheated, and to accept when she feels the need to contact the OM. Where is the line now that she'll pull the "I'm broken and will off myself if you don't give in?"


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## morituri

Shaggy said:


> You can help her get help - but you can't let her successfully use pulling the suicide card as a way to force you to accept her cheating, and her complete lack of common sense with her "I need closure" crap.
> 
> She's doing everything she can her to manipulate you. To get you to accept her having cheated, and to accept when she feels the need to contact the OM. Where is the line now that she'll pull the "I'm broken and will off myself if you don't give in?"


*Bullsh*t*!! 

You have no fvckjng idea how many broken women are out there who would be sucking d**k to idiotically fix their issues.

These women don't deserve our hatred but our pity and our filing for divorce.


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## Shaggy

morituri said:


> *Bullsh*t*!!
> 
> You have no fvckjng idea how many broken women are out there who would be sucking d**k to idiotically fix their issues.
> 
> These women don't deserve our hatred but our pity and our filing for divorce.


? Morituri - I don't understand the point you're making here. ?


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## morituri

Shaggy said:


> ? Morituri - I don't understand the point you're making here. ?


I'm sorry Shaggy for lashing out at you, but please try to understand that those of us who divorced our cheating wives with plenty of love for them can still trigger when a flippant comment is made, no matter how right it is. Again my apologies to you.


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## Halien

Badblood said:


> Some very bad news. My wife is in the hospital under suicide watch. She attempted to do herself in, yesterday morning. She has been trying to contact me since I told her that I would not take her back. She maintains that the only reason she contacted the OM was to give him and herself closure. I can't be sure about anything, right now, but that I want her to recover and be able to get control of the demons she has. WAs it a real attempt or a grandstand play to stop the divorce? IDK, but I feel like I have been hit by a truck.


Badblood, I'll probably get hammered for saying this, but I will anyway. My wife tried to committ suicide in the past, but infidelity was not a part of the situation. Your wife could've chosen to take the long road approach of proving her remorse by waiting you out, by just being on standby for the day that you might change your mind. One way or another, she could've gotten word to you that she was working to prove herself worthy of another chance, even if it took a year or more.

If she really wanted to die, a person can do this. They can put themself into a situation where they can't be saved. 

Fact is, suicide attempts are often just a dramatic plea for attention from a person who wants it now. Her attending psychiatrist will eventually want to know if you are taking her back. If you are, then they will need assurances that you are past the infidelity. If not, the treatment will be aimed at keeping her until she is safe, and safe with the idea of living without the security you provide.


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## Shaggy

morituri said:


> I'm sorry Shaggy for lashing out at you, but please try to understand that those of us who divorced our cheating wives with plenty of love for them can still trigger when a flippant comment is made, no matter how right it is. Again my apologies to you.


No problem - actually, I wasn't sure the point you were making, since the wording jumped around a bit on.

Was it that there a broken women out there, that despite your love for them, can't be fixed, won't be fixed, and all you can do is divorce them, and feel pity for the broken lives they choose to continue?


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## morituri

Halien said:


> Fact is, suicide attempts are often just a dramatic plea for attention from a person who wants it now.


Until you have someone you love you attempt to take her life, you have no fv*king idea of what you speak of.


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## Almostrecovered

morituri said:


> Until you have someone you love you attempt to take her life, you have no fv*king idea of what you speak of.





Halien said:


> My wife tried to committ suicide in the past


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## morituri

Shaggy said:


> No problem - actually, I wasn't sure the point you were making, since the wording jumped around a bit on.
> 
> Was it that there a broken women out there, that despite your love for them, can't be fixed, won't be fixed, and all you can do is divorce them, and feel pity for the broken lives they choose to continue?


Shaggy, despite the irony in my following comment, I will never justify what my ex-wife's actions did to me, her step-children, her family and to herself. Nevertheless I will always try to help those women who truly acknowledge the wrong they committed to those who put their trust in them yet want to make an honest attempt to right the wrong they committed. I make no apologies for those who think differently. Am I making any sense?


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## Halien

morituri said:


> Until you have someone you love you attempt to take her life, you have no fv*king idea of what you speak of.


Excuse me??? My wife has a type of bipolar depression that has led to three suicide attempts. Its apparently hereditary, so my son has also attempted suicide multiple times. 

There is a thing called liability when a hospital takes a suicide patient. Their number one goal is to make sure that the patient does not attempt suicide again right after getting out. Get off your high horse and try to understand my post. Normal rules of reconciliation for the betrayed spouse no longer exist in this atmosphere. Bleeding must understand that the goal will be to make her feel safe, if he wishes to reconcile and get her out before mid January. And my post was using the language I've heard six times before, after my spouse and son were taken from me by the system. If he decides to divorce, he needs to be able to stand up to the psychiatrist who is legally liable for her care, and explain that the medical outcome is for her independance. If you can't make that decision soon, only a handful of states have systems in place where a psychiatrist would feel comfortable in releasing the wife. They will be treating this as a cry for help.

Try reading a post before replying


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## HelloooNurse

Psychologists say that people who have been abused by a parent usually (when untreated) go on to find and marry a partner who has the same characteristics as the abusive parent. They may not be exactly the same, but they arouse the same feelings in the person as did the abuser. These include shame, humiliation, submissiveness, powerlessness and whatnot. Apparently this is a subconscious effort to get into a similar situation and, they hope, they can resolve it properly this time. 

It sounds like this is what has happened with the wife of the OP. And now that he has shown his disgust at what she has done (and rightfully so), his subsequent treatment of her has escalated those same feelings enormously. This would be why she has offered all the bizarre things like being his "maid", the whips and such in bed, etc. No healthy individual would submit themselves to such a degree. Doing ANYTHING (regardless how degrading) to make things right and to stay married. This is definitely childhood issues coming into play.

I would also venture to guess that, being caught out when she contacted the OM "one last time", the husband had said "right.. that's it. We are done" and to her this represents a repeat of her childhood - she was not able to redeem herself to her authoritarian husband. Just like she was not able to redeem herself to her authoritarian father. Huge psychological crisis occurs. Suicide attempt is made.

Ofcourse this could all just be BS. I am just putting it out there because it is pretty much a classic case that is in every psychotherapy book in existence. Whether or not it is true, I don't know. But yes... she will need a lot more then 8 months of therapy to break this cycle in her life. Who knows?


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## Badblood

Nurse, I am not , nor have I ever been, authoritarian. Quite the contrary. That is, until I found out about the affair. Then, I assumed that she (being the intelligent, independent woman) would understand the clear choice I gave her. She told me right after D-day that I was the only man who ever moved her intellectually, emotionally and sexually, and I did it by loving and trusting her implicitly. I have never intentionally attempted to dominate her, in any way. I truly believe in marriage as an equal partnership, and I thought she did too. Sure, I am the agressive alpha male type, but not with my wife and kids, I want a loving family, not an obedient one.


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## Badblood

Thanks to all for their concern. I have not gotten back sooner, because I've been meeting with family, Doctors, ETC. The attempt, was apparently genuine, and she would have died except for a neighbor's assistance. After drinking too much, she slashed her arms, then realizing what she had done, went out the door and fainted in the yard. Her parents neighbor is, like myself, a combat veteran, and was able to stop the bleeding, but not before she had lost a considerable amount. She will be in hospital for a long time, undergoing intensive therapy, so I am putting the divorce on hold, until she is able to regain control of her life. She will have the best of care. I do not know what I will do about the divorce, in the future, but I will NEVER abandon her, while I live.


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## Dadof3

Badblood has what is called in personality typing circles - objective communication preference. 

Doesn't sugar coat - states it as blunt as possible. Sure, sounds authoritarian, doesn't mean it is though. Its definitely upsetting to those who have "personal" communication preferences.


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## Chaparral

Don't know how I missed this thread until now. I have just read through it but basically just Badblood's posts. About halfway through I started thinking there was a really good chance there would be a suicide/attempt if Badblood went through with the divorce.

I was shocked by the contact with the OM. However, I doubt it was anymore than her thinking she was just being considerate. Since, Badblood did not immediately file for divorce and put reconcilliation on the table ( under near impossible conditions) I am amazed that she hung in there and, as far as I can see, proved he was her true love. No matter what people say, a really good match is hard to find.

There is no doubt she has deep seated issues. I think its telling that she had the affair with someone who was so clearly her and Badbloods inferior. It almost sounds like a pity fck. That and her need for reassurances. Is she a generous person?

The amazing thing is what a perfect match you make and from what you posted she has been the perfect wife. And that is an understatement. Let her go to counseling, go to marriage counseling, and if that goes well take her back. She needs you, and many times people should be given a second chance. This is one of those times but I know how hard that can be.

Also, get IC for yourself to help you heal. You are a strong person but everyone could use a little insight from a third party. Reread your posts, you do give the impression of being authoritative and very dominant. I feel certain that part of this is her feeling that she is not good enough or doesn't deserve you. You family needs leadership in going forward, not retreat.

Good luck and prayers for your family


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## Badblood

Chapparal, There will be no divorce until I am sure that she is well enough and strong enough to deal with her issues. I may come across as dominant and somewhat " in your face", but I love her and would never abandon her during her troubles. I took my wedding vows seriously. One of the most striking differences is the attitudes of my family and hers. We are independent thinkers, open and to the point. Her family is very uptight, secretive and controlled. Rigid. WE say what we mean, and she and her family are always circumspect and evasive. IDK why. I hope that all of you posters know that she will receive the best possible care. Since she was admitted, I am her guardian and will look after her interests even before my own. What a rollercoaster, right? She cheats, attempts suicide, and I am left to pick up the pieces. I will do the best I can.


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## Chaparral

Badblood said:


> Chapparal, There will be no divorce until I am sure that she is well enough and strong enough to deal with her issues. I may come across as dominant and somewhat " in your face", but I love her and would never abandon her during her troubles. I took my wedding vows seriously. One of the most striking differences is the attitudes of my family and hers. We are independent thinkers, open and to the point. Her family is very uptight, secretive and controlled. Rigid. WE say what we mean, and she and her family are always circumspect and evasive. IDK why. I hope that all of you posters know that she will receive the best possible care. Since she was admitted, I am her guardian and will look after her interests even before my own. What a rollercoaster, right? She cheats, attempts suicide, and I am left to pick up the pieces. I will do the best I can.


Good luck and prayers. 

I am very close to a family like your wife's. Sometimes it feels like they think I should be able to read their minds.


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## Halien

Badblood said:


> Chapparal, There will be no divorce until I am sure that she is well enough and strong enough to deal with her issues. I may come across as dominant and somewhat " in your face", but I love her and would never abandon her during her troubles. I took my wedding vows seriously. One of the most striking differences is the attitudes of my family and hers. We are independent thinkers, open and to the point. Her family is very uptight, secretive and controlled. Rigid. WE say what we mean, and she and her family are always circumspect and evasive. IDK why. I hope that all of you posters know that she will receive the best possible care. Since she was admitted, I am her guardian and will look after her interests even before my own. What a rollercoaster, right? She cheats, attempts suicide, and I am left to pick up the pieces. I will do the best I can.


Badblood,

Through her recovery, I can only hope that you find a measure of healing. She's lucky to have you.


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## Badblood

Halien, I don't think luck has anything to do with it. Like I said before, I took my wedding vows seriously. My wife's mental problem is no different than any other illness, and I will take care of her to the best of my ability. When she has recovered enough and is able to handle her emotional well being, then we can deal with the issue of divorce (which is still very much my intention if I am not sure of her ability to be a faithful wife) or reconciliation. Her health comes first, then what follows will be for the benefit of us both.


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## snap

Badblood said:


> Chapparal, There will be no divorce until I am sure that she is well enough and strong enough to deal with her issues. I may come across as dominant and somewhat " in your face", but I love her and would never abandon her during her troubles. I took my wedding vows seriously. One of the most striking differences is the attitudes of my family and hers. We are independent thinkers, open and to the point. Her family is very uptight, secretive and controlled. Rigid. WE say what we mean, and she and her family are always circumspect and evasive. IDK why. I hope that all of you posters know that she will receive the best possible care. Since she was admitted, I am her guardian and will look after her interests even before my own. What a rollercoaster, right? She cheats, attempts suicide, and I am left to pick up the pieces. I will do the best I can.


Badblood, I don't know you, but what you wrote that sounds frighteningly similar. Same personality attitude, same kind of behavior from in-laws, inferior OM. Thankgod no suicide attempts here, but she went through pretty bad hypertension attacks this weekend.

Just want you to know I can relate to what you're going through and wish you the best.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> Halien, I don't think luck has anything to do with it. Like I said before, I took my wedding vows seriously. My wife's mental problem is no different than any other illness, and I will take care of her to the best of my ability. When she has recovered enough and is able to handle her emotional well being, then we can deal with the issue of divorce (which is still very much my intention if I am not sure of her ability to be a faithful wife) or reconciliation. Her health comes first, then what follows will be for the benefit of us both.


While your actions are noble and worthy of admiration, please consider that it could be years before she is well enough to be able to handle a divorce. Can you put your life on hold for that long? If the answer is yes then more power to you, but if you aren't sure, then you should seriously consider talking to her parents about them obtaining guardianship so they can make decisions in her place. You may also want to contact an divorce attorney and explain the situation so that he/she can inform you what options are available to you.


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## aug

When you are discussing guardianship with your divorce lawyer, ask if you have a potential conflict of interest.


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## Badblood

Thanks, Aug, I will do so, it's been on my mind for a few days now. Morituri, after some early consults, the psychiatrist at the hospital said that the suicide attempt was the result of a panic attack over my final decision to divorce, without giving her a chance to prove herself, but that the childhood issues are more involved and will be much harder to address. She (psy) says that she feels that she can get my wife on a more even keel within a few months, but that she will be in therapy for years. I will be updated, weekly on her condition, and have, at least , a game plan to follow.


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## Catherine602

morituri said:


> While your actions are noble and worthy of admiration, please consider that it could be years before she is well enough to be able to handle a divorce. Can you put your life on hold for that long? If the answer is yes then more power to you, but if you aren't sure, then you should seriously consider talking to her parents about them obtaining guardianship so they can make decisions in her place. You may also want to contact an divorce attorney and explain the situation so that he/she can inform you what options are available to you.


Brrrrr That's cold. 

. We seem to be in a period of heightened self concern. My experience - We took care of a sick favorite aunt for 2 years before she died. It was the hardest thing we ever did. It was a time of great stress on me because of all of the things I had to juggle. There was an even chance that our marriage would not survive, I knew that going in. But I could not abandon her. It turned out that she gave me more than I gave her. I have chronic depression and she helped me handle it more effectively.

I willed myself to be happy for everyone's sake and to make her feel loved. I did it and I learned that happiness is a choice not a circumstance i could control my reality. You can't control what will happen in your life but you can chose to give it meaning that makes you grow. I still fall off the wagon sometimes but I never did when she was with us. 

I read a book by Viktor Frankl "Mans search for meaning" for the 3rd time. He was a Nazi camp survivor . He managed to maintain his humanity though that horrorvand more importantly his hope. Many around lost hope and died they checked out because unlike Frankl, they could not manage to transcend the circumstances of their existence. It's not for everyone. 

Badblood is going through what may be a transendant experience at this point in his life. Maybe not. We all have them though. Those around us tell us don't do it, think of yourself. I think these periods require extraordinary control of vision because it is a loney jouney of faith, hope and relience on your own knowing. 

He could act on a mundane level "ditch the beoch she cheated" no one would blame him as the injured party. He can shut out the desire to run from the experience and find meaning in helping a person, to whom he owes nothing, to heal. He may end up divorcing but, when the time is right for him. He may spend some time in his life with this concern but why does he have to rush from it? Where does he go? Another woman? What will she do for him? 

At this point he seems to be less concerned for himself, he is transcending his own interest is that wrong? Who knows that he may come out being the envy of every man and woman for having a life with meaning on his terms. He may find that safe harbor in himself and carry it with him instead of a futile yet common search for it in someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian

For years? That's long. I hope you don't stick around merely for your guilt.


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## morituri

Heather856 said:


> If I read this right you married a cheater and youexpected a different outcome,no?


No *she was not* a cheater in her first marriage. Please read the thread.


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## Badblood

Catherine602 said:


> Brrrrr That's cold.
> 
> . We seem to be in a period of heightened self concern. My experience - We took care of a sick favorite aunt for 2 years before she died. It was the hardest thing we ever did. It was a time of great stress on me because of all of the things I had to juggle. There was an even chance that our marriage would not survive, I knew that going in. But I could not abandon her. It turned out that she gave me more than I gave her. I have chronic depression and she helped me handle it more effectively.
> 
> I willed myself to be happy for everyone's sake and to make her feel loved. I did it and I learned that happiness is a choice not a circumstance i could control my reality. You can't control what will happen in your life but you can chose to give it meaning that makes you grow. I still fall off the wagon sometimes but I never did when she was with us.
> 
> I read a book by Viktor Frankl "Mans search for meaning" for the 3rd time. He was a Nazi camp survivor . He managed to maintain his humanity though that horrorvand more importantly his hope. Many around lost hope and died they checked out because unlike Frankl, they could not manage to transcend the circumstances of their existence. It's not for everyone.
> 
> Badblood is going through what may be a transendant experience at this point in his life. Maybe not. We all have them though. Those around us tell us don't do it, think of yourself. I think these periods require extraordinary control of vision because it is a loney jouney of faith, hope and relience on your own knowing.
> 
> He could act on a mundane level "ditch the beoch she cheated" no one would blame him as the injured party. He can shut out the desire to run from the experience and find meaning in helping a person, to whom he owes nothing, to heal. He may end up divorcing but, when the time is right for him. He may spend some time in his life with this concern but why does he have to rush from it? Where does he go? Another woman? What will she do for him?
> 
> At this point he seems to be less concerned for himself, he is transcending his own interest is that wrong? Who knows that he may come out being the envy of every man and woman for having a life with meaning on his terms. He may find that safe harbor in himself and carry it with him instead of a futile yet common search for it in someone else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you, Catherine, for your very interesting post. Right now, this is where I'm at, her health comes first. and our marriage situation comes second. Some argue that I should abandon my responsibility, think about my own needs/desires, and let her get well or not, without my help. I quite simply cannot do this. In my family, we face our problems head-on, cutting and running isn't our style. So the situation is, what it is, and no use crying about it.


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## Badblood

Heather856 said:


> If I read this right you married a cheater and youexpected a different outcome,no?


You read it wrong, so keep your snide comments to yourself.


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## Badblood

sadcalifornian said:


> For years? That's long. I hope you don't stick around merely for your guilt.


SadCalifornian, I feel no particular guilt for either her affair, or her suicude attempt, just disappointment that I misunderstood her mental state.


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## Catherine602

H I don't understand. In one sentence you agree with Mori and what follows seems to be a non sequitur . I did not mean to be harsh, I have no right to be. I have not had the desvestating experience that Mori has had. But I have had my experiences and my reaction is based on that and makes what I feel very subjective. I say what I feel sometimes. 

I understand suicide much better than you or Mori can ever understand. You are looking at it from a long distance. I have seen it up close - When I was 15 yo I attempted it. i was seduced by a much older married man with 2 kids. He was my coach and I thought I was in love. 

He wanted sex with a young girl who could be easily manipulated and that was that. I can understand women who have been abused, I had many experiences of inappropriate male attention from men starting at about the age of 13. I was very pretty and well developed from an early age so I am certain that is why. 

I attempted to kill myself. Thankfully, I was found and I had a long period of recovery but I did recover. That is when I met a boy and we became friends. I don't know why to this day he took me on and helped me get through and married me because I was a mess. But he did. He was charismatic, smart, from a good family, popular, and a leader. What did he want with a withdrawn, angry girl who distrusted boys? 

He saved me from a bleak existence and helped me to hope and see that what happened was not my fault. If I were him, I would have run in the other direction, he had his pick of any girl in school. So I don't understand and I have never asked him why and he never told me why. I don't think he can explain it. 

In a sense, I did not earn being rescued by my husband. Why me, there are plenty of girls who were as stupid as I was and had to get over it on their own. But I had a guide to lead me out, it was a random act of profound kindness.. I believe in big and small ways, people are the answer to the prayers of others. I believe there are no angles in the sky they walk among us, they are us. 

God, I believe, gives us many chances in our lives to be one, for a minute with a smile and kind word to a starnger, an hour serving in a soup kitchem, months volunteering at a hospice or years guiding another soul out of a dark place. Most people dont know why they do it, just a feeling inside to put yourself out and help. It's not for everyone and we have a choice to pick and chose which of those calls to be an angel we want to answer, if any.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

What happened to Halien's post??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesHerMan

What a profoundly moving post, Catherine. It reminded me of the Robert Kennedy quote from Aeschylus:

Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.


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## Halien

Catherine602 said:


> What happened to Halien's post??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I deleted my post - sorry, but I've tried to get off this site, but keep getting PM's, then notice a few threads, etc. I really don't want to impact Badblood's decision process by my own experience with a partner who has been suicidal. Sadly, it is completely different to be a partner of a spouse with suicidal tendencies than to be the victim of a suicide attempt. Not worse, better, or anything - just different. Especially if the attempt involves something you did, as a spouse, like asking for divorce. It feels like you are judged negatively, regardless of what you choose to do, and I realized that its too personal to want to share. My therapist said that most of us who are married to partner like this ultimately face the realization that we'll blame ourselves forever if the spouse ultimately chooses to try again, even after a divorce, because we'll wonder if the divorce led up to the decision. Not sure if Mori was referring to adressing the guilt and self-expectations we bring into it as a partner, but Badblood will definately need to feel comfortable that his wife is continuing therapy for years if he eventually decides to divorce. Therapy, for her, will involve finding the inner strength to live without dependence on a partner for happiness, but it is still very normal for the partner to become even more dependent upon us after a suicide attempt. 

For me, I was never able to overcome this ownership of responsibility for my wife, despite the feeling of being in a one-way marriage. There's a lot of guilt in just saying that. Its not a common thing, I know, to fear that every call from the outside is THE one that tells you that the spouse has tried again. Each of us who have been there for a spouse has to come to grips with how much blame we will feel if it happens again.


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## morituri

Halien. First thing I want to do is to apologize to you for my idiotic outburst a few posts back. You are right, I should have read your post in its entirety.



Halien said:


> It feels like you are judged negatively, regardless of what you choose to do, and I realized that its too personal to want to share. _My therapist said that most of us who are married to partner like this ultimately face the realization that we'll blame ourselves forever if the spouse ultimately chooses to try again,_ _*even after a divorce, because we'll wonder if the divorce led up to the decision.*_ *Not sure if Mori was referring to adressing the guilt and self-expectations we bring into it as a partner*, but Badblood will definately need to feel comfortable that his wife is continuing therapy for years if he eventually decides to divorce. Therapy, for her, will involve finding the inner strength to live without dependence on a partner for happiness, but it is still very normal for the partner to become even more dependent upon us after a suicide attempt.
> 
> For me, I was never able to overcome this ownership of responsibility for my wife, despite the feeling of being in a one-way marriage. There's a lot of guilt in just saying that. Its not a common thing, I know, to fear that every call from the outside is THE one that tells you that the spouse has tried again. Each of us who have been there for a spouse has to come to grips with how much blame we will feel if it happens again.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

You have expressed exactly what I felt right after I was told of my ex-wife's suicidal attempts some months back. The fact that there are members who had unfaithful wives who were very remorseful (like my ex-wife) and yet were able to transcend their pain to give them another chance, just made me feel worse.

Catherine, if you go back and reread my last post to Badblood, you'll notice that I said that *IF he had the strength to see this through for years to come, then more power to him, BUT that if he was unsure then he should seriously consider *passing guardianship to her parents. I support whatever decision he takes with regards to his wife's mental state. 

I admire his compassion towards his wife, more so because of her wanton betrayal. She is not worthy of his compassion but she is a very lucky woman to have it. I hope that one day she realizes this and becomes a better person for it.


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## Halien

morituri said:


> Halien. First thing I want to do is to apologize to you for my idiotic outburst a few posts back. You are right, I should have read your post in its entirety.
> .


Thank you! In seeing Badblood's situation, I realized that he might run through some pretty similar feelings as the therapy progresses, but I'm very hesitant to post because our situations are so different. My wife struggles with what her psychiatrist considers to be a newly identified form of bipolar spectrum disorder. Anti-depressents tend to make her very suicidal, so I went through it a few times. A person begins to fear that the spouse can't handle life on their own, unless you see objective signs that she is progressing to where she is finding a healthy outlook on life. You become responsible for that person. Still, as you said, there comes a point where you have to ask yourself if you can ever let go of that responsiblity if no marital reconciliation comes.


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## Catherine602

The way I understand compassion is that it has nothing to do with the recipient. Thus "to have compassion" not give compassion. My way of thinking is that no one is worthy of compassion but we should all have compassion as human beings.. Personal reserves fluctuate over a lifetime and is highly dependent on inate individual capacity and life circumstances. That's natural, no judgment. Badblood is a strong man with ample reserves now, however, that may change over time. 

Suicide is a very selfish act, it is devestating to loved ones. But, a person can get to a point where the pain is so unbearable that the only way to end is to end yourself. There is no thought, no planning, it happens in an instant. There is a feeling of profound relief and stillnes, ending the pain is finally at hand, the mind goes blank to everything except how to accomplish the task of blessed relief. 

There are people who universally we don't care to feel compassion towards, like muders or child molesters because of the circumstances. Infidelity is horrible but even infidels are treated with compassion by someone who loves and cares, a parent maybe. If the concept was that infidelity renders one unworthy then 50% of the adult population would be unworthy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Badblood,

for what it is worth I understand and respect your decision to stand by your wife as she recovers. 

I don't know if I would have such strength, perhaps you are just stronger, but your wife is very lucky to have a man such as you.


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## Badblood

Thanks to all. I am doing my best for her, and listening to the psychiatrists, her family, on one hand, and my lawyer and my family , on the other. It's nice to get some impartial advice, from somebody who has dealt with this type of situation in their own lives. I am in the middle, I don't want to be, I never asked for this, but I'm the one who is stuck with it. One of the ladies who I have had a dinner date with, came over and brought me some food and some books on suicide and infidelity. She fixed me dinner and just listened to me rant and rave. It was sooooooo kind, that I almost cried. I feel pretty alone right now, and for someone to show me some compassion, was awesome.


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## Catherine602

Your lady friend sounds like a wonderful woman. I hope she will hang in there for you. She seems to understand your dilemma. Perhaps she is your angel in your time of need. Her act was unselfish just as you are being unselfish to your wife. This lady has nothing to gain from befriending you, in fact, most people would tell her to run not walk away. 

. Take care, what ever you do will be right even if your reserves become depleted and you need to give your wife over to some other equally caring person. What you have done so far for her should put her on the road to recovery. The rest is up to her. .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Is compassion a gift we give to ourselves, or to the receiver, or to both?


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## Badblood

morituri said:


> Is compassion a gift we give to ourselves, or to the receiver, or to both?


In this case, it was definitely a gift for the receiver. I was/am blown away by her kindness and love. She is fully aware of my situation, yet she is risking getting hurt, just to be good to me.


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## morituri

Badblood, you seem to be a man of character and conscience so it is important that this good, kind hearted woman doesn't misconstrue things and end up being hurt. I hope that you have conveyed to her that you are not ready for another committed relationship at this moment. Leaving things up to chance when it comes to this lady is only asking for a world of pain for her.


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## Badblood

I would like to point out that my wife's suicide attempt does not mean I am more inclined to reconcile. The affair still existed, and my intention was and still is to divorce. Her emotional issues are an illness that I will be sure that she gets the best care for, and I will unceasingly support her in her struggle with these issues, but this in no way implies that I will not seek happiness for myself. I did no wrong, so I refuse to be punished. My lady friend is thoroughly conversant with my situation, and knows me enough to know that I would never do anything to harm her, my wife or anyone, but am I not entitled to some comfort and love?


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## morituri

Of course you deserve love and happiness but taking a short period of emotional recovery is usually a wise move before starting another committed relationship.


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## Onedery

Compassion for cheating ex wife? Maybe I should have given mine a few bucks when she was at my door telling me she's living under a bridge now that her stud has moved on?


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## Badblood

Onedery said:


> Compassion for cheating ex wife? Maybe I should have given mine a few bucks when she was at my door telling me she's living under a bridge now that her stud has moved on?


Why don't you read the full thread, instead of spotchecking and making snarky comments? I don't need this and will contact the mods, if you do it again.


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## Eli-Zor

Badblood said:


> Why don't you read the full thread, instead of spotchecking and making snarky comments? I don't need this and will contact the mods, if you do it again.


Why? Either ignore the post or read it and move on .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian

Just curious. Although your W had this A, you seem to have a way with women. What is it about you that makes you so attractive? Your financial, look, intelligence... What do you think?


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## JustaJerk

Although I really feel bad at your current situation(suicide attempt), I hope you're not guilted into reconciling. These are problems that go beyond the marriage. These are personal problems that your wife must sort out on her own, with support from therapists, family, and friends. You shouldn't feel obligated to re-enter the relationship because of this latest setback. Stay strong.


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## Badblood

sadcalifornian said:


> Just curious. Although your W had this A, you seem to have a way with women. What is it about you that makes you so attractive? Your financial, look, intelligence... What do you think?


IDK. I certainly am not rich, although comfortable. I'm a mixed race guy, , and I am considered good-looking, or at least that is what women have always said. I am "gifted", if you know what I mean, but they don't know that until we are intimate, so it isn't that. Unless women talk about those sort of things among themselves. So I really don't know, but it has always been easy for me to get women, and until now, to keep them. I guess that is why this is such a shock. I would never, in my wildest dreams , have thought that this could happen to me. Cheating wives happened to other guys, with little ----, not to guys like me.


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## Badblood

BTW, she , very emphatically, said it wasn't about sex. WTF? If it wasn't about sex, then why did she have the sex? I , having seen the OM, (he is old, fat, and a low-life) know that I'm better looking, have a better body and am good in bed, so.....why?


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## working_together

Badblood said:


> BTW, she , very emphatically, said it wasn't about sex. WTF? If it wasn't about sex, then why did she have the sex? I , having seen the OM, (he is old, fat, and a low-life) know that I'm better looking, have a better body and am good in bed, so.....why?


They seem to always down grade. I doubt it was about sex, she probably felt obliged since he made her feel good or whatever.

For what it's worth, I respect your decision to stand by her in this time of need, you shared a life with her, and you probably feel she really doesn't have anyone in her life to help her with her issues. It's a responsible thing to do to any human being regardless of what pain they may have caused you. 

I doubt you'll R, but at least you have the common decency not to kick her when she's down.

wishing you all the best


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## Dadof3

Badblood: I ran your situation by my W (who reads some of the threads, but doesn't have an account or post) and gave her background on you, your wife, and the situation. She thought that your W's affair was an issue having to do with her father and bad child-hood and as weird as that sounds (if that's the case - then whats up with her having sex with a "father figure") - but has more to do with the love she missed as a child, and how he made her feel loved as a "daughter". 

This is where some personal counciling would be of some use. Her theory makes sense to me. I'd have to have a professional explain why a woman would want to have intercourse with a "father figure" when she had an absent/bad father and child hood.

Some thoughts for you.


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## Badblood

Thank you, Working. It has been a very hard year. One of these days, when I can get a few minutes for myself, I will have to sit down and try to deal with my own issues and disappointments. It was soooo nice for my lady -friend to fix me dinner and listen to my rants, and it made me aware that I need to help myself, too. I have come to the realization that I will never abandon my wife while she is ill, but that it will not be as her husband, but rather as a concerned and loving friend.


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## Badblood

Dadof3 said:


> Badblood: I ran your situation by my W (who reads some of the threads, but doesn't have an account or post) and gave her background on you, your wife, and the situation. She thought that your W's affair was an issue having to do with her father and bad child-hood and as weird as that sounds (if that's the case - then whats up with her having sex with a "father figure") - but has more to do with the love she missed as a child, and how he made her feel loved as a "daughter".
> 
> This is where some personal counciling would be of some use. Her theory makes sense to me. I'd have to have a professional explain why a woman would want to have intercourse with a "father figure" when she had an absent/bad father and child hood.
> 
> Some thoughts for you.


Dad, this is about what the psychiatrist told me after some preliminary interviews with her. She (psy) also said that it has come to a head , because of her age and the opportunity presented by the OM. My wife certainly has un-resolved issues with her parents, that's for sure.


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## sadcalifornian

Dadof3 said:


> Badblood: I ran your situation by my W (who reads some of the threads, but doesn't have an account or post) and gave her background on you, your wife, and the situation. She thought that your W's affair was an issue having to do with her father and bad child-hood and as weird as that sounds (if that's the case - then whats up with her having sex with a "father figure") - but has more to do with the love she missed as a child, and how he made her feel loved as a "daughter".
> 
> This is where some personal counciling would be of some use. Her theory makes sense to me. I'd have to have a professional explain why a woman would want to have intercourse with a "father figure" when she had an absent/bad father and child hood.
> 
> Some thoughts for you.


Hmmm... Very interesting. 

This kind of psychological issues from the family origin is more prevalent among women than men, do you think?


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> BTW, she , very emphatically, said it wasn't about sex. WTF? If it wasn't about sex, then why did she have the sex? I , having seen the OM, (he is old, fat, and a low-life) know that I'm better looking, have a better body and am good in bed, so.....why?


Considering that she could have had a much more attractive and younger man to have sex with, it is possible that she MAY have viewed him as a father figure who gave her the validation she never got from her emotionally and physically abusive father. She felt very appreciative and gave him the only thing she thought she had of value, her body. Sex is often the currency of affairs. Fvcked up thinking I know, but damaged people often behave in the strangest of ways.

I am the father of two grown daughters and when they were little, they were so emotionally attached to me. Even when they were teenagers, and somewhat rebellious, I could still remember how much they needed me to be there for emotional support. I have no doubt that a good father is essential in the development of a healthy woman. Sadly, many women were not so lucky.


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## Dadof3

While I don't want to "stereotype" - I think statistics show that girls start having pre-marital sex, abusing drugs, etc, etc when there is an abusive father, missing father, or a weak father in her life. Its pretty clear.


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## Badblood

I found out that she will be discharged from hospital, a week from tomorrow, and will live in a group facility, for the time being. I have gotten her a psychiatrist (one of the best) and am going to meet with her, tomorrow afternoon, to give her a basic history of our marriage and all of the troubles we have been having, which lead up to the suicide attempt. She told me that she is very pro-marriage and believes that infidelity is wrong and extremely harmful, from a mental health perspective.


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## sadcalifornian

I hope your W recovers mentally and physially from the whole ordeal. Although she is the perpetrator in all this, I can't help feeling sorry for her. 

So, you are still adamant on divorcing her regardless? No chance, whatsoever?


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## Halien

Badblood said:


> I found out that she will be discharged from hospital, a week from tomorrow, and will live in a group facility, for the time being. I have gotten her a psychiatrist (one of the best) and am going to meet with her, tomorrow afternoon, to give her a basic history of our marriage and all of the troubles we have been having, which lead up to the suicide attempt. She told me that she is very pro-marriage and believes that infidelity is wrong and extremely harmful, from a mental health perspective.


Sounds like it would be perfectly natural for this psychiatrist to take the point of view that the healthiest and only way for your wife to recover is within the marriage, then. To teach her that marriage is so sacred, and infidelity so destructive, that she should work on better communication strategies with you. My only point is that this psychiatrist still might not agree with you when you state that you have some strong expectations if you will consider reconciliation. Not even sure if it is really relevant posting this because you've handled this very well in this respect so far, in my opinion.

On a different note, the whole example brought up by Dadof3 is pretty interesting. When I was a new supervisor, a married employee kept hinting around about how she couldn't say no if I asked her to do 'anything'. Once, she told me that her dad played semi-pro football. She finally started talking about how she wanted to be dominated by an athletic guy like me - spanked and even hit. Putting two and two together, it seemed like the only reason was because I looked like her dad. I shuffled her off to HR.


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## Shaggy

Badblood,

I think you've got your head on straighter than 99% of the BS on this board. You know your limits, and you know your boundaries.

She crossed, willing a show stopper boundary. If she did it for daddy issues, because he looked like a game show host, because he likes the same color of skittles, or because she just wanted sex - IT DOES NOT MATTER.

You're wife was and is a perfectly competent adult who made a selfish and hurtful choice which ended your ability to trust her and the marriage.

And even though she had been told and agreed to no contact. She still went out and fished for him, while supposedly she was doing all she could to earn you back. She still went fishing. If he had responded nicely, in time the affair would have fired back up.

She got caught once, she got caught twice, and you finally fully ended it. So she made yet another selfish, hurtful, and bad choice, which landed her in the hospital and the way things are today.

The bottom line is that she is still the woman at the beginning on this post. The one who decided as an adult to cheat. Therapy may help her understand that motivations she had to make that choice. But she was a competent adult and she competently made the choice, and she also made the choice to fish while doing the supposed R work with you.

Lots of people are going to try to guilt you into taking her back. To guilt you into feeling sorry for her. Guilt you into not divorcing her because she "needs" you. 

Think long and hard before you give in to that guilt. Should you be married to someone because of guilt? Guilt that you are turning your back on someone, who when fully competent willingly chose to turn their back on you and cheat?


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## morituri

Shaggy said:


> Lots of people are going to try to guilt you into taking her back. To guilt you into feeling sorry for her. Guilt you into not divorcing her because she "needs" you.
> 
> Think long and hard before you give in to that guilt. Should you be married to someone because of guilt? Guilt that you are turning your back on someone, who when fully competent willingly chose to turn their back on you and cheat?


I don't think he's susceptible to anybody trying to guilt him into taking her back. He has been very firm with everybody about his intention to divorce her. 

He knows that he did nothing to cause her present predicament. He knows it is a product of an abusive childhood and a thoughtless and selfish mindset. Catherine, a suicide survivor herself, said it best when she stated that suicide is an extreme act of selfishness. The same can be said about his wife and my ex-wife.

Badblood is one of the few betrayed husbands here who has very clear deal breaker boundaries and who is not afraid to enforce them. Especially the one that says "You cheat on me, and I'm gone for good".


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## JustaJerk

> I don't think he's susceptible to anybody trying to guilt him into taking her back. He has been very firm with everybody about his intention to divorce her.


Nor do I, but I'm bothered by the fact that the therapist might want him to be the primary support agent throughout this ordeal. If he/she(therapist) insists on having *Badblood* take up this role, then when she recovers she'll be equally as devastated when he decides to lay it on her that he wants out. This might lead to another suicide episode. She needs support from a broad panel of people- _her_ family and friends in order to ease her into the transition of NOT being married anymore.


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## morituri

JustaJerk said:


> Nor do I, but I'm bothered by the fact that the therapist might want him to be the primary support agent throughout this ordeal. If he/she(therapist) insists on having *Badblood* take up this role, then when she recovers she'll be equally as devastated when he decides to lay it on her that he wants out. This might lead to another suicide episode. She needs support from a broad panel of people- _her_ family and friends in order to ease her into the transition of NOT being married anymore.


Excellent point and one that Badblood should make perfectly clear from the onset to her therapist.

It would seem to me that part of her therapy should include teaching her to let go of the things and people she has no control over and to grieve the loss of her marriage in a healthy fashion. Otherwise, her recovery from therapy is going to be a false one, a band aid at best.


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## Catherine602

I really hope I did not give the impression that I think he should R with his wife because she attempted suicide. Her unresolved phychological problem which she did not share with her husband is at the base of the cheating and the suicide attempt. There were no severe problems in the relationship in fact it sounded as if he loved his wife and showed it. A stunning blow was that he was surprising her with a visit when he caught them. 

BB has been through a severe trauma he sounds like a macho strong guy but he still hurts. He did everything right and this happened. I think it would be very bad to for him to R out of guilt. I predict he will have a miserable existence. He is not abandoning his wife. After the shock of what he has been through, no one would blame him for completely disengaging. But he has compassion and will disengage when he sees fit. I trust his judgement because he seems a good man. 

I feel sympathy for his wife naturally due to my experience that makes me biased but not right. I have no doubt that with good care she emerge a stronger mentally healthier woman. I also feel at some point she will love and be loved again. I think it is better that she and BB start fresh with new partners and let this terrible period fade.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

A huge part of the problem is that MY family love her dearly, too. I have been guilted, blamed, begged, patronized, and insulted, until I am ready to leave the whole lot of them, to their own devices. Do I feel sorry for her? Of course, immensely so. Do I feel guilt? Of course, constantly. But I have made my decision, and am going through with it. I will obviously take into consideration, her health, but I am most certainly NOT going to be the primary agent for her recovery. Her/my family and friends will have to bear their share of the load. I cannot do it all, although there are lots of folks who say I can.


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## morituri

Your family was not there with you when you went to the hotel and up to the room she was staying and finding out that she was on the verge of having sex with another man for the 5th business trip.

My children also loved my ex-wife and could not understand how I could divorce her. My daughters also tried to guilt me until I became fed up and showed them the video of their step-mother having sex with another man. They were shocked, dismayed, betrayed and quickly changed their tune giving me their full support to proceed with the divorce. I will never forget the anger on their faces after they saw that video.

Badblood the only way your family may feel anything close is to force them to watch a pornographic video of a married woman cheating on her husband, and afterwards see how much they will still believe that the woman is worthy of having her husband taking her back. Until that happens, they have no fvking clue.


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## Badblood

Well Mori, I'm not going to subject my mom and dad to that sort of thing, but I will be having several long talks with those who support her the most. Strangely enough, she has been very forthcoming with both families and has admitted blame.


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## JustaJerk

> Badblood the only way your family may feel anything close is to *force them to watch a pornographic video of a married woman cheating on her husband*


That's pretty extreme, no? 

In all fairness, its not their decision to make, but yours. To stay married just for the sake of _being_ married is not the right answer. You have to willing to do the hard work, and by the sound of it you've pretty much "_checked out_" of this marriage- that's nothing to be ashamed of. You held your end of the bargain, she did not. Don't let anyone guilt you into making ANY choice that you're wary of.


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## sadcalifornian

morituri said:


> My children also loved my ex-wife and could not understand how I could divorce her. My daughters also tried to guilt me until I became fed up and showed them the video of their step-mother having sex with another man. They were shocked, dismayed, betrayed and quickly changed their tune giving me their full support to proceed with the divorce. I will never forget the anger on their faces after they saw that video.


That's brutal, Mori. But, I understand how you came to resort to that.


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## morituri

Badblood said:


> Well Mori, I'm not going to subject my mom and dad to that sort of thing, but I will be having several long talks with those who support her the most. Strangely enough, she has been very forthcoming with both families and has admitted blame.


I understand and believe me that the last thing I wanted to do was expose my daughters to that devastating video of their step-mother with the OM, but their vigorous efforts on her behalf left me very little choice.



JustaJerk said:


> Badblood the only way your family may feel anything close is to* force them to watch a pornographic video of a married woman cheating on her husband*
> 
> 
> 
> That's pretty extreme, no?
Click to expand...

Indeed it is but when you have family members who have no idea what the emotional impact is upon you and aggressively try to advocate for reconciliation with the cheating spouse, I see no other way for them to understand.

Believe me I take no joy in having shown them that video.


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## Badblood

Well Mori, you did what you felt you had to do. I hope I can deal with it by talking to all concerned. Most of them are just being compassionate to my wife, I get that.


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## morituri

To each their own way Badblood. I wish you much success with your own approach.


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## Badblood

I don't expect it will be easy, nothing about this situation has been easy , so far.


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## Badblood

After talking to the psychiatrist, I have decided that the divorce can proceed. She (psy) says that my wife has already accepted that the marriage is over, and from talking to her (wife) I agree, she seems resigned to it. Wife and I talked a lot this weekend and while very desirous that our marriage continue, she is fully aware that between her psychological issues and the affair, reconciliation would be almost inhumanly difficult. I tried to be as up-beat as possible, and when she said that maybe , when she "get's her sh*t together", we can try again, I didn't contradict her. I know I probably should have, but the psychiatrist said that anything that takes hope from her will be bad, and anything that gives her hope is good. Even if I have no intention of getting back together, I should keep it to myself , until she is well enough to handle the truth.


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## morituri

Did you discuss with the psychiatrist how much contact, if any, you should have with your stbxw?


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## RandomDude

Now that's a shatterer if anything... =/
Hell, and it was going great too, then this happens, and it has been going for MONTHS even! And it happens on a romantic surprise!

Your story really cut bro, that must have really stung. You're doing the right thing. As for her telling you all these lovey doveys, her tune will change, don't let her manipulate you anymore.


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## Badblood

morituri said:


> Did you discuss with the psychiatrist how much contact, if any, you should have with your stbxw?


Yes, and she feels that as long as I am showing support for my wife , contact is a good thing. The last thing she needs is to feel alone and forgotten, so I'm going to visit her a couple of times a week, and maybe take her out to dinner, when she is able to do so.


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## Badblood

Random Dude, she isn't even able to manipulate herself, let alone me. Read my whole thread. She is in a psychiatric home.


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## Initfortheduration

Give her hope, yes. But not about the marriage. If you are set on divorce, it would be counter productive to give false hope. I don't think you will. But I do think you need to be especially careful about that. You don't want her trying again. I think you have handled this as well as anyone has. Don't listen to the naysayers about your decisions. They're your decisions, and you seem to be treating her with kit gloves. Encourage her family and friends to be with her for support, but be sure to tell them NOT to give her false hope about reconciliation. They should not be giving her advice or ideas on how to reconcile with you. They should just be there for her. Be sure to have that conversation with friends and family.


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## Badblood

I had a HUGE confrontation with her family this weekend. Some of them have been supportive, but most of them blame me (of course) for her condition and the affair. I countered by having the doctor tell them what she found out about my wife's childhood issues, and how they influenced her actions, but they still argued that I should , "let bygones, be bygones", Oh, and I should NEVER mention anything to anyone to protect her family name and reputation. I lost patience. I told them that it was precisely their secretive, sneaky, underhanded way of doing things, that was the cause of almost ALL of our problems!!!! When my family has a problem, we brainstorm it, and solve it, and let the chips fall where they may. They hide, evade, lie and backbite, then make sure that it is kept a closely guarded secret. Apperently, it is better to look like you care, than to actually do anything.


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## Dadof3

My condolences, Badblood. Keep your head up! You are doing just fine!

Tell her family to deal with her from now on. You've been good and honorable and its time to move on!


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## Beowulf

Badblood said:


> I had a HUGE confrontation with her family this weekend. Some of them have been supportive, but most of them blame me (of course) for her condition and the affair. I countered by having the doctor tell them what she found out about my wife's childhood issues, and how they influenced her actions, but they still argued that I should , "let bygones, be bygones", Oh, and I should NEVER mention anything to anyone to protect her family name and reputation. I lost patience. I told them that it was precisely their secretive, sneaky, underhanded way of doing things, that was the cause of almost ALL of our problems!!!! When my family has a problem, we brainstorm it, and solve it, and let the chips fall where they may. They hide, evade, lie and backbite, then make sure that it is kept a closely guarded secret. Apperently, it is better to look like you care, than to actually do anything.


Wow, are you sure you aren't talking about my W's family? Same deal, they screwed her up so much. It was a toxic childhood environment. The only reason my W has been able to overcome this BS is because she had a very good friend she was able to open up to. The same friend helped her end her A and tell me about it. I'll always be grateful to her for that.

Can't blame you for telling them off. I wish I could have done that but my W's family are all gone.


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## Catherine602

Bad I don't know what the final outcome of your meeting was but I will make a suggestion. When you discuss this again, don't let them blame -shift. 

Don't explain or defend yourself. I wonder that her therapist did not discuss the abuse as a factor in all of this when she spoke to them. 

Her self-destructive behavior is squarely on their backs and they will not own it. Easier to dump it on you. Her marriage was good and happy, the only reason she destroyed it and you was because of the devestating effect of their abuse of an innocent child. 

Tell them that you need to know exactly what they did to her because what they did destroyed your life as well as hers. Also tell them that they need to tell the therapist to help their daughter. Tell them they need to see a therapist for there child abuse issues. 

Say it calmly when they talk about your responsibility. Keep asking them to reveal what they did every argument they offer. Tell them they are lucky they were not discovered and thrown into prison. 

As for embarrassing the family with exposure, they are at fault for that. If they were concerned about exposure, they should not have abused their child. Exposure is unfortunate for them but there are consequences for evil.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

Catherine, you don't understand, her own mother asked if she could be hospitalized in another State, to prevent her, "Insanity", (her mom's words) from becoming common knowledge. Like I said, some of the better ones are supportive, but most would rather lock her away, and keep silent.


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## morituri

Her folks sound like they stepped out of the 19th century.


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## Badblood

If I don't care for her, who will? And what kind of treatment would she get? I hate what her family has done to her. When we met, she was a quietly, elegant, Goddess. It's like those chocolate Easter bunnies we got as kids. some were solid, but some were hollow. She was a hollow Goddess.


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## Badblood

morituri said:


> Her folks sound like they stepped out of the 19th century.


Personally I think they stepped out of a Stephen King novel.


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## CantePe

Dadof3 said:


> Badblood: I ran your situation by my W (who reads some of the threads, but doesn't have an account or post) and gave her background on you, your wife, and the situation. She thought that your W's affair was an issue having to do with her father and bad child-hood and as weird as that sounds (if that's the case - then whats up with her having sex with a "father figure") - but has more to do with the love she missed as a child, and how he made her feel loved as a "daughter".
> 
> This is where some personal counciling would be of some use. Her theory makes sense to me. I'd have to have a professional explain why a woman would want to have intercourse with a "father figure" when she had an absent/bad father and child hood.
> 
> Some thoughts for you.


Text book definition of the "Elektra Complexe"!!!


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## Initfortheduration

Cantepe, Why would she have sex with someone representing a father figure? I can tell by the way she is treating her husband that she equates obedience and servitude as what she needs to do to be loved. And regarding the father figure issue. A girl who has had a father who has withheld love from her, will always have a whole in her. The relationship with her father will play out at times throughout her life. It is sad but her response to bad blood in a way is like a child trying to please her father after she has been punished. At this point I believe she will do anything for his forgiveness. Even as far as abusing herself and trying suicide. I have experienced in my own life with my daughter and her friend. I remember 1 or 2 friends of her, really wanting to be close to me, and then finding out that their fathers were in prison or absent. This is what so makes me laugh at today's wisdom regarding the independence of women. For every self confident woman out there, there are 10 who have had their hearts crushed by their dads withholding affection. They sexualize early and use it through their lives to gain some type of power or security.


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## Initfortheduration

My impression is that she has shown true contrition. That she is a people pleaser and had sex with the OM because she "owed" it to him. It was in trade for his company. And I am starting to think that holding the carrot of a "possible" reconciliation is doing more harm then good regarding her changing her behavior. I am glad that you did tell her that you are going through with the divorce. In a way, I thought her hoping for R is actually impeding her healing. She was focusing on the marriage and bad blood and not getting to the bottom of whats going on in her life. At this point in her life she needs encouragement. And she does not need anger in her life right now. 

Badblood, now that you have told her that you are going through with the divorce, it will free her to work on herself. But she needs daddy's support and approval. And right now you're it. Since you were truthful with her. I think you can be instrumental in her healing. Be happy with her, be positive, dump the anger and do not talk about issues in your marriage. At this point she needs to see a future with you as friends. It will give her great hope. Not in you. But in her future.


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## lascarx

Initfortheduration said:


> For every self confident woman out there, there are 10 who have had their hearts crushed by their dads withholding affection.


That goes for boys too, though they'll obviously suffer and act out in a different way. Always take the time to hold your kids tight when they're little, you'll save yourself a lot of trouble going into later years.


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## warlock07

Initfortheduration said:


> Cantepe, Why would she have sex with someone representing a father figure? I can tell by the way she is treating her husband that she equates obedience and servitude as what she needs to do to be loved. And regarding the father figure issue. A girl who has had a father who has withheld love from her, will always have a whole in her. The relationship with her father will play out at times throughout her life. It is sad but her response to bad blood in a way is like a child trying to please her father after she has been punished. At this point I believe she will do anything for his forgiveness. Even as far as abusing herself and trying suicide. I have experienced in my own life with my daughter and her friend. I remember 1 or 2 friends of her, really wanting to be close to me, and then finding out that their fathers were in prison or absent. This is what so makes me laugh at today's wisdom regarding the independence of women. For every self confident woman out there, there are 10 who have had their hearts crushed by their dads withholding affection. They sexualize early and use it through their lives to gain some type of power or security.


How sad is this.


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## Initfortheduration

lascarx said:


> That goes for boys too, though they'll obviously suffer and act out in a different way. Always take the time to hold your kids tight when they're little, you'll save yourself a lot of trouble going into later years.


I agree, without a father to example what manhood really is, it is left up to peers, mom and the media to mold him. Consequently they are self indulgent, weak and immature. From fathers, boys learn accountability and logic. From mom's compassion and acceptance.

It truly is amazing in the differences between men and women.
Just look at the links below. The first is women inventors. They can be listed on less then a page, where the men have multiple pages for each individual letter in the alphabet.

Women Inventors A to Z

History of Famous Inventors - A - Past and Present


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## Halien

Initfortheduration said:


> Cantepe, Why would she have sex with someone representing a father figure? I can tell by the way she is treating her husband that she equates obedience and servitude as what she needs to do to be loved. .


When early childhood trauma results in sexual issues, I don't think logic will apply. This is a subject that really puzzles me. About six years ago, a younger employee, in her late twenties, began crossing the line with the sexual comments she was making. Ultimately, she point blank offered a sexual relationship(she was engaged at the time). I reported her to HR, asking for her to be moved. Later, she left a note on my desk, which I also gave to HR. Basically, I looked like a younger version of her father, and since I was her supervisor, things went bad. For months, the whole thing just really wierded me out. First off, at 41 at the time, I didn't want to resemble any adult's father. But really, it was more or less about having control over her, according to HR.


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## Initfortheduration

Exactly. I can tell there is the makings of this at my work right now with a 22 year old and I (52). She has already ready shared that her stepfather would literally only call her dumb sht. She comments on my appearance daily and how my hair looks and comments on my perceived weight loss. And when I am near her she has to shoot rubber bands at me or in some way tries to connect. She has a fiance, so all I basically talk about to her is how I have been married for 32 years, and that my wife is the first face I want to see in the morning and the last at night. I try to model a healthy marriage to her. Especially when she comes out with some childish vision of what love is.


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