# This is worrisome ...



## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

My 5 year old had catholic religion class today and today they went over sex assault. We were warned that they were going to tell kids that they should say stop or report bad people. 

My son jumped in the car when we picked him up and he said..... daddy we talked about something you do to me'! *He said.... when i say stop you ...never listen when you are tickling me'. So my DH said absolutely nothing.

Sounds like My son told the whole class this. That's sure to get people talking and calling CPS. AND i don't know what to do. Is it possible that I'm overreacting? My DH does tickle him past the point where he screams stop. But is this a sign of something worse?
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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

Oh wow, sorry but I think 5 is too young to be teaching children about that because they get their own ideas.  When my brother was about the same age, they taught them about something similar and introduced them to "rape." My dad use to spank us and my brother told everyone that my dad raped him all the time!!! (It's kind of funny now but at the time, it wasn't)...

I'm not sure that you should be concerned that your DH does actually sexually assault him.... But I would sit down and have a talk with your son to see if he can set it straight. I know when my brother was telling people my dad raped him, my mom immediately pulled over (we were in the car when my brother told her) and she told him that that was NOT what rape was and that he shouldn't be telling anyone that as it could make them take daddy away. He stopped saying that.

I think I would also call the church and tell them what's resulted and perhaps they should reconsider their delivery or age group that this subject is intended for.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I think its worth looking into further. It could be nothing then again it could be something. You or someone else needs to ask your son how often he is tickled by his father and where exactly is he tickled,when no one is around too. Your husband does not need to be present during this question. 

If its just plain tickling with nothing inappropperiate going on, then its kind of odd to me he would mention it as he gets in the car. After all the subject material was about sexual issues.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Sexual assault/abuse is deffo something that needs to be discussed. Especially this day and age. 

I wonder if they discussed telling someone to STOP doing something that bothers them, and your son was referring to your husband not always stopping when asked. Which actually he does need to do. Stop means just that. OR if you son was referring to the type of tickling thats being done. It is something that needs to be asked, just to make sure. Ask him where does he get tickled, ask him to show you.


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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

I did pull him aside and ask him to show me' where he gets tickled. I didn't say by daddy. I just reinforced what he was taught today about always coming to me if there is ever a problem. 

My son pointed to his thighs, and neck. I have seen my husband tickle him there before. Upper thigh area too. My husband is def on alert now. 

To be honest, i can't imagine this happening. But i am very frequently looking past problems with him because i believe I'm co dependent. 

Hearing my child say what he did today was alarming. I'm hopeful that I'm not looking past something. 

My DH already had CPS called on him once before. He said it was an accident but he hurt our son. He went thru therapy and i thought he was better...



CallaLily said:


> Sexual assault/abuse is deffo something that needs to be discussed. Especially this day and age.
> 
> I wonder if they discussed telling someone to STOP doing something that bothers them, and your son was referring to your husband not always stopping when asked. Which actually he does need to do. Stop means just that. OR if you son was referring to the type of tickling thats being done. It is something that needs to be asked, just to make sure. Ask him where does he get tickled, ask him to show you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Needop - I read this and I am concerned. Please take what I am saying in the spirit in which is it meant - to alert you. 

The fact that your child wishes are not honored by your husband is desturbing. Being tickled on the thighs seems an odd place, usually the neck and underarms are sensitive to tickles. The point of teaching kids about unwanted touches is that they are given permission to say no to any unwanted touches, period. It is difficult for a child to decipher sexual and non sexual touch so any unwanted touch should be rebuffed and a responsible trusted adult should be informed. 

It is interesting that your thoughts seemed to go to your husband first and 2 nd your child. You said nothing about telling your husband never to tickle your son again. If you have not, do it in private. I would also watch him with your kids if he has abusive tendencies. He has had therapy but the tickling sounds like he still does not have a clear idea about bounderies. Tickling a child past the point where it is fun subjects the child to an unpleasant experience in the guise of play. That is not play but it can be cruel if it goes on past the child's level of endurance. Please don't let this happen. 

I suggest you set time aside time every day to talk to your son casually about his day and his feeling. It takes only 10 mins. Make it special mom and son time and make it safe for him to tell you what is on his mind. Don't overreact to anything, just listen, monitor and act decisively. Do the same for your other kids too. Let him know you want to hear how his day goes and what his experiences are. That's what I do with my two kids every day. 

You have to take an active role in protecting your kids. You husband is not the most important person here. He may not be mature and mentally healthy enough to be trusted so you are the one who must to take on the role of leader and protector of your kids. That is your primary role if your husband has proven himself to be unequal to the task by his behavior and deeds. That is for you to dertemine..
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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

Thank you Catherine. You are right. I have talked to my husband before about his tickling because he has done it to me' too! If we got into a fight he would just tickle me' to make me' stop talking. Thank goodness that is a thing of the past now. But i told him that he needs to respect our wishes when we say stop. If he massages my shoulders he hurts me'. To the point that i actually had bruises once. I asked him to lighten up but he didn't listen so i finally walked away from him. 

The point is he thinks he knows best. Is it to the point that i need to leave (combined with other marital problems) i don't know. 

He was a sex assault victim himself when he was 24. He said that he got drunk and was raped by a man. 




Catherine602 said:


> Needop - I read this and I am concerned. Please take what I am saying in the spirit in which is it meant - to alert you.
> 
> The fact that your child wishes are not honored by your husband is desturbing. Being tickled on the thighs seems an odd place, usually the neck and underarms are sensitive to tickles. The point of teaching kids about unwanted touches is that they are given permission to say no to any unwanted touches, period. It is difficult for a child to decipher sexual and non sexual touch so any unwanted touch should be rebuffed and a responsible trusted adult should be informed.
> 
> ...


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Did your husband seek any kind of therapy due to this rape that took place? 

He has boundary issues thats for sure. You say you look past the other problems with him because you feel you are co-dependant. What other kinds of problems do you have with your husband? 

If you feel you are co-dependent might be a good idea to check out some codependency books. A good one, is, Co-dependent No More, by Melody Beattie.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What you describe is even more alarming. It sounds as if he disguises his assaults. He messages are actually brutal. If he came rigth out and hurt you he would be accused of abuse so he hides a rock in a sock so to speak and hurts you on the sly. He sounds dangerous - if he consciously conceiling his intensions of hurting while offering a message or a tickle then he is that he is a devious abuser.

If he operates on an unconscious level then he is a sick abuser. I don't know your story but I have to question why you would expose your self to abuse? A more important question is why you would stay with a man who, from your description, seems sadistic? If he does this to you, what is he doing to the kids? 

I can not understand why you hesitate. Abusers are difficult to treat. There has to be tremendous motivation to get treated and it is a life long struggle for them to remain vigilant against violence. If your husband is serupticiously hurting you and your kids after his therapy then he is still dangerous. The fact that he has a clever way of hiding his abuse is cunning. I may be completely wrong in my interpretation of what you describe. But if you think rationally and like a responsible woman what do you see? 

Do you feel safe with him, can you trust him with your kids, do your kids feel safe with him? Do you avoid his touch? Do you want him around because he is an asset to your family or because you fear life without him? Do you wish you did not depend on him? Love is not enough. You may love what he seems to be when he is being nice but the person who abuses is not nice but very cruel and sick. Deviant people need love too but, not at close quarters.
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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

All very good points. To answer some of the questions. Yes he went through therapy last year because i demanded it. He showed signs of anger management issues. He would chase after people in traffic if they cut in etc. He appears to have improved in that area. The other problems we had were related to money. I make a large amount more than him. He loves what he does and has been very accomplished in his field. However my job requires us to relocate every few years. I have wanted to find a happy medium and take a job that would provide for our family and be more secure and permanent. I just recently learned that I'm being let go after my current contract is up (next week) and I've Bern interviewing for jobs that he feels don't pay enough. Well i have very few options right now since I'm about to be unemployed. He has been pressuring me' to write a book and get it online by Xmas. It's nearly impossible for me' to take all this stress. 

This weekend i interviewed for a job near our hometown. I had about 3 hours of sleep by the Time i returned last night. Not only is he asking me' to finish the book today but he is watching football and just left me' with the kids so he could "volunteer" to work today. He told me' he'll give me' "an hour" when he gets home. 

And this week he volunteered to travel for work and left me' alone to work, take care of the kids.... And prepare for
another interview on Thursday. 

The pressure I'm under is insane. Maybe that will give you an idea of why i am upset with him in various ways. Maybe everyone's life is like this, but i feel as if i have a lot of demands as the breadwinner. 

He's mad that we might have to move into a house smaller than 2400 sq feet and tells me' if i take a job that "pays that low" (still well over 6 figures) that he will stay behind with the kids (both under 6) and i can live in an efficiency apartment. He meant that he would do that until he felt ready to move. He's not leaving me'. He's said before that he could never live on his own salary. He said that when we separated a while ago. Obviously, after therapy, we got back together. 




Catherine602 said:


> What you describe is even more alarming. It sounds as if he disguises his assaults. He messages are actually brutal. If he came rigth out and hurt you he would be accused of abuse so he hides a rock in a sock so to speak and hurts you on the sly. He sounds dangerous - if he consciously conceiling his intensions of hurting while offering a message or a tickle then he is that he is a devious abuser.
> 
> If he operates on an unconscious level then he is a sick abuser. I don't know your story but I have to question why you would expose your self to abuse? A more important question is why you would stay with a man who, from your description, seems sadistic? If he does this to you, what is he doing to the kids?
> 
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Have you read over what you have written? He is using you as a work horse. I have seen this many times with wives demanding lavish lifestyles that require their husbands to work themselves to death. They seem to value a bathroom with two vanities more than the life and health of their husband. A man or woman does not become a slave because they marry. No man or woman is required to kill themselves to provide for a lavish lifestyle. If you cam live on less and be less stressed then do so. You don't owe your spouse luxury. If he wants that then tell him to get off his lazy a** and work more. 

Tell me why your allow this man to brow beat you and abuse you? What good is he? He takes and gives nothing back. Is he good in bed or something. I don't get it. He sounds like a class A loser and selfish jerk and you stress yourself over him!,! Woman up! You are not helpless and at the mercy of this creep. Tell him to efff himself. Tell him you like his idea about separating. Only he moves into an efficiency and you stay with your kids. That will remove one giant stressor from your life. Why are you acting so helpless and as if his behavior is normal? Take some responsibility for yourself. He does not care about you so you need to care about yourself and your kids. Geeeezzzz 
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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

I can understand what you are saying. *I don't want to sound like I'm defending him, but I also want to make sure I am providing a fair picture. *Yes, what I'm describing is very difficult. *I'm absorbing so much of the burden. *I'm also reeling from being told I am not getting my contract renewed at my current employer. *It just makes me long for an employer who will invest in the long term, and not see me just as a contract worker. *I have done that. *I have gotten 2 interviews - both are great places. *I think the salary will be good, but it obviously won't be as good as we have it now. *
My DH has done a lot to try and improve himself over the last few years. *The therapy was very difficult to get him into...and he finally embraced it and went. *He didn't go back as I'd asked him to do...but he did go for a long time. *
The reason I haven't left him is because I don't want to do that to the kids. *He is a good father, for the most part. *Yes, he's odd and difficult sometimes, but he's better than a lot of dads I hear about. *However, *I found out from my son that while I was traveling on this interview the kids had a donut for breakfast and saltine crackers for lunch. *I got home at dinner time so I fed them a good meal. *I asked my DH about it and he said that's all the kiddos wanted.....well you need to MAKE them eat something nutricious. *Come on! *
As for employment, *I suggested my DH start looking at jobs in the cities I'm interviewing in. *(I've always gotten him his previous jobs since we are in the same field - I negotiatied him in.) *I can't do that this time - since I don't have much negotiating power. *I told him I would suggest him to my future employer, but beyond that, I can't promise much. *So, he started looking on his own and found out it was HARD to get a job. *He said if I want him and the kids to come with ...I better be prepared for him to be unemployed for awhile. *
Between me and my DH - I have no desire to be intimate with him. *No he's not great in bed. *In fact, we don't have sex very often because he likes to masturbate. *So - that's not a draw at all. *I'm just with him because I made a commitment to him over a decade ago. *I'm a catholic and I have tried to honor my vows. *It's just tough when you feel so railroaded all the time. *




Catherine602 said:


> Have you read over what you have written? He is using you as a work horse. I have seen this many times with wives demanding lavish lifestyles that require their husbands to work themselves to death. They seem to value a bathroom with two vanities more than the life and health of their husband. A man or woman does not become a slave because they marry. No man or woman is required to kill themselves to provide for a lavish lifestyle. If you cam live on less and be less stressed then do so. You don't owe your spouse luxury. If he wants that then tell him to get off his lazy a** and work more.
> 
> Tell me why your allow this man to brow beat you and abuse you? What good is he? He takes and gives nothing back. Is he good in bed or something. I don't get it. He sounds like a class A loser and selfish jerk and you stress yourself over him!,! Woman up! You are not helpless and at the mercy of this creep. Tell him to efff himself. Tell him you like his idea about separating. Only he moves into an efficiency and you stay with your kids. That will remove one giant stressor from your life. Why are you acting so helpless and as if his behavior is normal? Take some responsibility for yourself. He does not care about you so you need to care about yourself and your kids. Geeeezzzz
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am Catholic too. The stricture against divorce does not mean that God wishes you to place yourself and innocent children in harms way to follow the churches mandate against divorce. I cannot see a God, who says "suffer the little children to come onto Me" valuing an intact marriage over the safety and happiness of innocent souls. 

In my hierarchy, my role as a parent is top on my list and my role as a wife is second. Let me explain, my children are a gift to both my husband and I. God has entrusted us with the responsibility to nurture two souls to live in his light. As long as we are doing all we can to make that happen then our role as good parents support our role as partners.. If however, one of us violates the sacred trust by unremitting abuse then the other is obligated to act in the interest of the highest priority, the children. if that means ending the union then so be it. 

I think you are putting your marriage above your safety and that of your children. You have to ask if you do this out of fear. I cannot believe that anyone would actually think that staying in an abusive marriage is somehow right in the eyes of God. I think it is an excuse. It shows a lack of faith that God will help those who need His protection. Think about it, being Catholic does not negate your responsibility to protect yourself and your kids. I think you are fearful of being without him even though he is a nightmare. 
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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

Do you consider my husband's behavior abusive? Is it severe enough to warrant leaving? Maybe i AM blind to him and his behavior. 




Catherine602 said:


> I am Catholic too. The stricture against divorce does not mean that God wishes you to place yourself and innocent children in harms way to follow the churches mandate against divorce. I cannot see a God, who says "suffer the little children to come onto Me" valuing an intact marriage over the safety and happiness of innocent souls.
> 
> In my hierarchy, my role as a parent is top on my list and my role as a wife is second. Let me explain, my children are a gift to both my husband and I. God has entrusted us with the responsibility to nurture two souls to live in his light. As long as we are doing all we can to make that happen then our role as good parents support our role as partners.. If however, one of us violates the sacred trust by unremitting abuse then the other is obligated to act in the interest of the highest priority, the children. if that means ending the union then so be it.
> 
> ...


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

What an odd thread. It was started with the intent of asking if extensive tickling was a warning sign of sexual abuse and pretty quickly veered towards an extensive amount of other problems you are having in your marriage. I can't address all of your other issues (not sure anyone can), but I'll make you feel better about the tickling.

My grandfather died when I was 13 (that's a long time ago). I have nothing but the fondest of memories of him. He was a wonderful grandfather. The only problem was that he tickled me to the point that I couldn't breath and I HATED it. 

I used to love to tickle my kids. What is more wonderful than the sound of children's laughter? But I stop after a few seconds only because I used to remember how awful it was to be tickled to that point. And why the upper inner thigh? Because that is the tickling sweet spot. You can't miss there. No way did I EVER think about that tickling beyond what it was. NEVER. And at least one of my brothers was always in the room with us.

So go work on all of your other problems. There's a long list. Worrying that your husband is sexually abusing your kids by tickling is NOT one of them.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Parents should talk about this with their kids...not an outside source, imo. At least the first conversation.

I would talk to your kid about abuse and also to your husband to stop when the kids say stop. Tickling sucks. I hated it when my uncle would tickle me and I'd be screaming stop. What a way to teach boundaries.../sarcasm. To this day I want to punch him for that.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Needopinion, no matter how many different ways you ask - your H is still abusive and he isn't changing. Extensive tickling isn't necessarily sexual abuse but when your son is begging him to quit it is cruel. Just like his over-reaction when your son stepped on his foot. Are you going to keep spinning your wheels or take action?
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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

Well here's the problem. If i leave my son is going to be exposed to that without my supervision. I feel like it's best for me to be there to monitor everything. And my DH has made strides ... Isn't it a catch 22? He already has mentioned staying behind with the kids if i take the job out of state. It's just getting tougher and tougher these days. 



golfergirl said:


> Needopinion, no matter how many different ways you ask - your H is still abusive and he isn't changing. Extensive tickling isn't necessarily sexual abuse but when your son is begging him to quit it is cruel. Just like his over-reaction when your son stepped on his foot. Are you going to keep spinning your wheels or take action?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

needopinion said:


> Well here's the problem. If i leave my son is going to be exposed to that without my supervision. I feel like it's best for me to be there to monitor everything. And my DH has made strides ... Isn't it a catch 22? He already has mentioned staying behind with the kids if i take the job out of state. It's just getting tougher and tougher these days.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hasn't he had CPS investigation? That with the new concern? The counselor?
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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

The CPS investigation was cleared. He didn't have any problems getting out of that. The therapist said that he can cut back on the tickling but that it was harmless. She said hd needed boundaries but she apparently felt i was overreacting again. He paints me' as an overreactive wife who is too sensitive and quick to judge. That's why i am struggling. 

TE=golfergirl;481405]Hasn't he had CPS investigation? That with the new concern? The counselor?
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