# Neglecting the husband for the children



## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

Recently, there have been a couple of threads started by women who's husbands have either left them or notified them that they are not satisfied in their marriage because the wife makes the children the priority and the husband is neglected. Does anyone here have any opinion as to the reason for this phenomenon? I'm not talking about neglecting the husband for an infant - I think pretty much everyone understands that an infant is pretty much incapable of taking care of or entertaining themselves. I'm talking more about children who are 3 and over and who are capable of entertaining themselves for a short amount of time. 

What goes through these wives' heads? Is it an extension of the dumbing down and dehumanization of men/husbands that's seen in modern popular culture? Do some women, especially *some (read that SOME, not all)*, SAHMs just view their husband as a meal ticket and provider? What is the reason for this phenomenon? Is it because more people are no longer religious (a lot of religions teach that when you get married the two become one)? 

Growing up, my brother and I were the product of parents that loved each other FIRST, then my brother and I. From about 3 - 7 our bedtime was pm, and I'm sure after 7 my parents used that time for "mommy and daddy time." If my parents were talking and we interrupted them with a non-life-threatening situation we were told not to interrupt them. 

How can these women not realize that there's a double-edged sword here? First, they're neglecting their husbands to the detriment of their marriage. Second, and maybe more dire, they are raising children who will feel self-entitled, selfish, and "special." This new generation of children, and I'm not talking about teenagers today, are going to all think they're the king and queen of Sheba if this continues. My parents made me feel LOVED, but they never made me feel "special" and definitely NOT self-entitled? Is this an extension of the self-esteem movement? I'm just trying to understand the psychology at play here.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

I would like to know why some husbands neglect their wives after the children are born.


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## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> I would like to know why some husbands neglect their wives after the children are born.


This isn't relevant to my question. You're not being clever or intelligent by trying to reverse the question. If you really want to know the answer to your question, start your own thread and don't hijack this one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

If I had an answer I wouldn't be living it.

But I agree with your points. It scares the every living you know what out of me that my girls may grow up not understanding how the world really works. In the real world you're not going to have mommy following your every move, to pick you up and dust you off after every minor stumble. 

Life doesn't work that way. And now that I've lived that world for years with no resolution I think it's a case of how a woman is wired. Some understand the importance of maintaining a relationship with their husband. Some change the moment their first child is born and no longer see their husband as anything other than a business partner.

Sad but true. These women, they can't be changed. So as a man in this situation you have to decide whether you want to live the rest of your life in a situation where you're not desired...simply tolerated, or if you want to leave.

Most stay. Even understanding that their are women out their who "get it". We stay. I can spout off all the platitudes about the kids being young and all that stuff, but in reality I don't really know why I do.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

In my world the super stay at home moms are looked up to. It's almost a competition and I'll admit I got sucked in temporarily. People just make you feel like crap if your kid isn't in a dozen activities and you aren't room mother, on the PTO or fit in. By the time I got home I didn't have time to cook or clean. Society rewards what they see not what goes on behind closed doors.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Yeah, if I had an answer I wouldn't be living it either.

Just some hunches/thoughts off the top of my head, stemming from only my personal experience (YMMV, and I may change my mind later):

1) Why extreme neglect-of-husband occurred soon after childbirth may hold part of the answer. My hunch is there can be powerful biochemical phenomena that can tightly bind the mother to the infant (oxytocin? enhanced by breast feeding?) -- but, I'm not sure where I got that hunch (vaguely recall reading about it i The Sex Starved Marriage or some other text, and that doesn't necessarily mean it is settled science).

2) What happened after the neglect began -- either as a direct response to the neglect OR just by coincidence, may hold part of the answer. (After 7 months or so of no intimacy with my wife, after childbirth, my angst over being rejected was surely made apparent to her in a most humbling way, and likely further diminished any will or desire to meet any of my needs).

3) On the matter of culture, I have many many times felt like my wife resents the notions of "traditional" husband/wife roles she absorbed from the culture of her youth; she resents the husband/wife roles adopted by her parents -- WHERE IT SUITS HER. And, though I have never ever ever been inclined to think there is or should be a one-size-fits-all choice of roles, and I have ALWAYS supported her education and career and encouraged her to find fulfillment independent of me and my interests (even at the expense of mine), I think she still feels "put upon" (by who? I have no freaking idea) to conform to whatever her mom railed against in the 1960s/1970. It haunts me, yet I can't fight ghosts.

4) My wife and I are not religious, at all. (I was very much religious until my very early 20s.) I don't think being religious is a requirement for partners to be able to treat each other lovingly, meeting each others needs in a way which makes the marriage (and home life) thrive. (I realize that is not what you were asserting, OP.) It is also not a sufficient requirement to ensure it happens (my parents are quite religious, and tortured and neglected each other emotionally for years!). But, I do know folks who seem to have accepted, from the teachings of their particular religion, an imperative about how to treat each other as husband and wife -- and it seems to work for them. But, there are other religious teachings that undercut the dignity and value of the wife (in particular), and that seems quite detrimental to me.

5) In my own case, I feel my wife completely neglected me after the kids were born -- and this has continued for 13 or so years. Yet, I put everything I was capable of giving to support her -- perhaps so much, it hurt our chances for long-term success. To this day, she claims I wasn't there for her. I honestly think she cannot remember what it was like. She was depressed. It was very hard. I never ever neglected her or our child. Yet I am the one blamed and resented.

6) My wife and I neglected "mommy and daddy" time, which has been detrimental the health of the marriage and the home life our kids. I don't think they will feel "entitled" because of that. I think we manage keeping them grounded via other means. But, they are victims of the other consequences of devaluing our marriage.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> In my world the super stay at home moms are looked up to. It's almost a competition and I'll admit I got sucked in temporarily. People just make you feel like crap if your kid isn't in a dozen activities and you aren't room mother, on the PTO or fit in. By the time I got home I didn't have time to cook or clean. Society rewards what they see not what goes on behind closed doors.



Mavash,

If you don't mind me asking:

Looking back at the time you were "sucked in temporarily", did you then, and do you now, feel like your husband's beliefs/attitudes/actions were causal factors -- were they pushing you in that direction?

Also, whether or not you then or now blame him for it, do you think you took any of it out on him directly or indirectly (e.g., like you might have resented him having needs -- sexual or otherwise -- that only you could fulfill).

Please don't feel obliged to answer. And, please don't take any of that as an accusation -- I really am not familiar with your story. I'm just wondering if there is any resonance in your answers with hunches I have about my wife and I's situation.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

PieceOfSky said:


> 3) On the matter of culture, I have many many times felt like my wife resents the notions of "traditional" husband/wife roles she absorbed from the culture of her youth; she resents the husband/wife roles adopted by her parents -- WHERE IT SUITS HER. And, though I have never ever ever been inclined to think there is or should be a one-size-fits-all choice of roles, and I have ALWAYS supported her education and career and encouraged her to find fulfillment independent of me and my interests (even at the expense of mine), I think she still feels "put upon" (by who? I have no freaking idea) to conform to whatever her mom railed against in the 1960s/1970. It haunts me, yet I can't fight ghosts.


I have often wondered if the above is more about the conflict with what the wife wants to do with her life. Having been raised to believe she can do anything career-wise, yet wanting to stay home with her child. She can't do both, recognizes that intellectually, yet is still unhappy as there is no good choice. That frustration and anger can't be directed toward the child, and many are not willing to direct it toward themselves (a not uncommon human condition), so it is directed at others, with the husband being the easiest target.

I do think societies greater focus on kids in general, particularly with all the books and methods for raising a smarter, healthier, better kid, contribute to this. My parents did little to entertain us. We were expected to keep ourselves entertained and out of trouble. That is not the case today, as being active and involved in my children's life at a very detailed level (beyond what I had growing up) is expected.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

There are definitely a couple of culprits mentioned already. 



Mavash. said:


> In my world the super stay at home moms are looked up to...Society rewards what they see not what goes on behind closed doors.


Society as a whole viewing raising children as a competion instead of a collaboration of the older, wiser people helping to bring children up. It is like a race to get your child in all the right activities and schools.

I can see how some women get wrapped up in the whole "Super mom" thing. They get 'rewarded' by their peers for this line of thinking and so it perpetuates. Don't be the man that gets in the way of their 'progress' towards making the child the best of the best.



PieceOfSky said:


> 1) Why extreme neglect-of-husband occurred soon after childbirth may hold part of the answer. My hunch is there can be powerful biochemical phenomena that can tightly bind the mother to the infant (oxytocin? enhanced by breast feeding?) -- but, I'm not sure where I got that hunch (vaguely recall reading about it i The Sex Starved Marriage or some other text, and that doesn't necessarily mean it is settled science).


There is research that suggests the bond between the mother and child is emotional and hormonally (chemically) driven. The women get so much satisfaction (read as release of hormomes) from bonding with the young child that they don't need or want affection from their husband. They get everything they need interacting with the child, it is almost like a drug for them. I was a first hand witness to this after the birth of my children. My (ex)wife didn't need me at all emotionally or physically. I felt very rejected. I would bring it up, however, the behavior would never change for long.

The neglect only continued after the kids got a little older. My ex, instead of being super mom, wanted to work on her career. Between work, going back to school, and the kids, there was little room for me in her life. I supported her thinking that when she got where she wanted to be, things would be better for us. Nope, always about what she wanted. Her drive was more important than our relationship.


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## I got this (Feb 25, 2013)

Wives ignorant to the needs of their marriage and husband. 

Before you ladies kick me in the balls. I am a recovered husband ignorant to the needs of my marriage and wife after the rush and free passes for prior good deeds wore off and nearly blew up my marriage. 

I hit the books and applied what I learned and saved my marriage. 

The truth is there is no motivation to learn how to be a good spouse when things are so easy in the beginning. It's only when things get effed that anyone is motivated to figure things out if its not to late


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Any species that doesn't protect it's young is doomed. If my house was on fire and my wife had time to save me or the kids, I would expect her to go for the kids. I would think she'd have a screw loose if she didn't. Here's the order of merit list for human beings: #1. Kids. They are the future. 2. Women - they can give birth. Last - Men. One can impregnate scores of women.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

. 
Do you mean that the next crop of entitled self-centered young adults are products of homes where the mother gives too little of her attention to her husband? 

Thats makes the solution so simple. Why didnt anyone else think of it. Determine the optimal number of times per week that a wife must provide her husband with attention in order to grow responsible, empathetic adults. It's a win win, men get their wife's attention and society reaps the benifit of decent citizenry. I am certain there are women sighing with relief at the propect of throwing off the burden of yet another of societies ills laid at their feet. 

It won't work because the other half of the human equation are blindly searching for female feet and washing their hands of responsibility. They cannot be depended upon to take any responsibility or leadership or action. Ohhhh ... for a few good men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I got this (Feb 25, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Any species that doesn't protect it's young is doomed. If my house was on fire and my wife had time to save me or the kids, I would expect her to go for the kids. I would think she'd have a screw loose if she didn't. Here's the order of merit list for human beings: #1. Kids. They are the future. 2. Women - they can give birth. Last - Men. One can impregnate scores of women.


Wow. That's shocking and cold, ignores the ability of wives, let alone all of us and relegates some of us as having less merit than others for reasons that are beyond galactically ridiculous. Any species that relegates a portion of the species as completely unnecessary and unimportant is doomed. It's not that any would because your view is an insignificant minority that wouldn't blip on any radar.


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## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> .
> Do you mean that the next crop of entitled self-centered young adults are products of homes where the mother gives too little of her attention to her husband?
> 
> Thats makes the solution so simple. Why didnt anyone else think of it. Determine the optimal number of times per week that a wife must provide her husband with attention in order to grow responsible, empathetic adults. It's a win win, men get their wife's attention and society reaps the benifit of decent citizenry. I am certain there are women sighing with relief at the propect of throwing off the burden of yet another of societies ills laid at their feet.
> ...


Nice sarcasm - you missed the point entirely. If a child is made to feel constantly special and doted on all the time, they're going to believe that they are special and they deserve to be doted on by everyone in society. By having mothers helicopter around them, be involved in every activity, and take care of all their needs instead of letting them figure it out themselves they're learning that they don't need to do any work and things will be given to them instead of being productive members of society.

If the mother ensures a stable marriage, they'll learn how to have a successful relationship. The girls will see how husbands should be treated (with respect and as an equal partner) and sons will learn how a wife should treat them.

It's not a hard concept to understand and nice job trying to downplay my argument and you can dismiss it if you want but it doesn't make it any less valid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> .
> Do you mean that the next crop of entitled self-centered young adults are products of homes where the mother gives too little of her attention to her husband?
> 
> Thats makes the solution so simple. Why didnt anyone else think of it. Determine the optimal number of times per week that a wife must provide her husband with attention in order to grow responsible, empathetic adults. It's a win win, men get their wife's attention and society reaps the benifit of decent citizenry. I am certain there are women sighing with relief at the propect of throwing off the burden of yet another of societies ills laid at their feet.
> ...


Why shouldn't the kids get memorable scenes of mommy and daddy caring for each other?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> .
> Do you mean that the next crop of entitled self-centered young adults are products of homes where the mother gives too little of her attention to her husband?
> 
> Thats makes the solution so simple. Why didnt anyone else think of it. Determine the optimal number of times per week that a wife must provide her husband with attention in order to grow responsible, empathetic adults. It's a win win, men get their wife's attention and society reaps the benifit of decent citizenry. I am certain there are women sighing with relief at the propect of throwing off the burden of yet another of societies ills laid at their feet.
> ...


If you can't see how a mother smother her children to the point of neglecting her husband will stunt the emotional growth of the child...there really isn't much point having this discussion. It's a pretty universal premise.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I think there will always be a group of folks that will defend the role of motherhood no matter what you throw at it, and in their minds, if the husband needs to be neglected for 1,2,18 years to raise the child properly, so be it.

You can try to educate that viewpoint, but I don't think you'll have much luck. Those that view things that way tend to believe that if the husband does not fall in line, THEY are the problem and not the neglect.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I have only been reading about this phenonmen of wives neglecting husbands after children, since I've been on TAM (Nov '12). I'll be having my first in September and I really don't want to fall into this behavior. I know that new baby are a handful so I want to have a plan in place before the baby come. 

But anyway, I thought I had read somewhere that while mothers are breastfeeding they are usually LD because the body know there already is a baby around so they are not motivated to conceive another one. 

Here is is a question to men, if this is true. If your wife had sex even if she didn't feel like it, just because she did not want you to feel neglect, would that take away the "duty sex" tone of it. Is it okay if you know she really don't feel like it but she is looking for you to be pleased? Or is that just as bad as no sex?

And what happen if you are in to the act, it's coming to an end and baby starts crying? Everybody gets left hanging, huh? :lol:


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## I got this (Feb 25, 2013)

Acorn said:


> I think there will always be a group of folks that will defend the role of motherhood no matter what you throw at it, and in their minds, if the husband needs to be neglected for 1,2,18 years to raise the child properly, so be it.
> 
> You can try to educate that viewpoint, but I don't think you'll have much luck. Those that view things that way tend to believe that if the husband does not fall in line, THEY are the problem and not the neglect.


My wife says out loud there is enough of her to take care of both. She proves it every day and makes it look pretty easy. I can't speak for anyone else but it is very plausible (for some at least) to succeed at motherhood and marriage simultaneously without settling for something less than a full on joy filled life.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> I have only been reading about this phenonmen of wives neglecting husbands after children, since I've been on TAM (Nov '12). I'll be having my first in September and I really don't want to fall into this behavior. I know that new baby are a handful so I want to have a plan in place before the baby come.
> 
> But anyway, I thought I had read somewhere that while mothers are breastfeeding they are usually LD because the body know there already is a baby around so they are not motivated to conceive another one.
> 
> ...


If it is done without making a point of how you are not into it, and are only doing it for him, it might work. If you are truly doing it for him, and for his needs and happiness, the enthusiasm should show through.

If you are in the act, and it is nearing the end, ignore the baby as best as you can, and let them cry for a minute. The likliness of anything being really wrong is very slim, and it won't hurt them to cry for a few minutes. Easier said than done


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I wonder if women that sway this way tend to be the kind that were not very into their husbands to begin with? 

My husband is a hard man to ignore. In a good way though.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Mavash,
> 
> If you don't mind me asking:
> 
> ...


I'm HD so sex wasn't an issue. 

I was however quite crabby from doing too much and I neglected my job as homemaker.

My husband had nothing to do with me falling prey to peer pressure and my own perfectionist tendencies.

I own it all. Only thing I blame him for was not speaking up. He now admits it annoyed him and I had no idea.

Sad thing is it wasn't even about my kids it was about saving face with other moms.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> Here is is a question to men, if this is true. If your wife had sex even if she didn't feel like it, just because she did not want you to feel neglect, would that take away the "duty sex" tone of it. Is it okay if you know she really don't feel like it but she is looking for you to be pleased? Or is that just as bad as no sex?


When it is done because it is just another thing to check off on the box of things to do, it is duty sex and will not be appreciated.

When it is done because you love your husband and want to keep the closeness, it can be a wonderful gift.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I made this mistake when my kids were little.

However, my ex-h made this mistake, too.

We both related to each other via our love for our children. We did not realize this would pull us apart from each other. At the time it felt like it bonded us together.

We were wrong.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> I have only been reading about this phenonmen of wives neglecting husbands after children, since I've been on TAM (Nov '12). I'll be having my first in September and I really don't want to fall into this behavior. I know that new baby are a handful so I want to have a plan in place before the baby come.
> 
> But anyway, I thought I had read somewhere that while mothers are breastfeeding they are usually LD because the body know there already is a baby around so they are not motivated to conceive another one.
> 
> ...


It's not necessarily true about breastfeeding. I never noticed a change in my drive, and in fact, after everything healed up, I was more sensitive in a good way. 

And yeah, baby cries and it's all over! But easy enough to start up again. 

We struggled after our baby was born, but it wasn't as simple as neglect from either of us. A perfect storm of exhaustion, resentment, misunderstanding, poor communication, and shock at how profoundly our lives had changed. Add a dash of depression and yeah, horrible couple of years. 

Things are back to wonderful now, with our kids 3 and 6. But maybe I value my relationship more than the women described here - being happy with my husband has always brought more fun and joy to my life than anything else so I fought hard to get it back.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Agree I nursed all 3 of mine and my high drive wasn't affected. Only thing was the boobs were off limits during the first 6 months. Too uncomfortable.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> I wonder if women that sway this way tend to be the kind that were not very into their husbands to begin with?


I've wondered that myself at times, about my particular case. Intellectually, I can convince myself that that is not the case. But, then, she rejects me in a new way, on a new day, and I'm back to feeling that way again.

Ironically (?), my wife tells me she thinks I'm just not that much into her, basically: "I don't think you ever really loved me, or even liked me." Which just stuns me even more. Anyone can come on here and say "But, I'm not like that." -- and how would you know. So, I don't expect anyone to believe me. But, I know of no one personally (friends, co-workers, family) who put as much energy and time into "meeting the needs" of their partner as have I. But, it was never enough. And it is not remembered by her, unless I point it out and maybe I'll get a "Yeah, well. You did do that." -- not with a smile, or a hug; just a reluctant aknowledgement.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> When it is done because it is just another thing to check off on the box of things to do, it is duty sex and will not be appreciated.
> 
> When it is done because you love your husband and want to keep the closeness, it can be a wonderful gift.


I agree with the second part 1000%.

As for the duty sex, I'll add that if and when it becomes clear that begrudged duty sex is not even a possibility, then one will long for it anyways.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> I've wondered that myself at times, about my particular case. Intellectually, I can convince myself that that is not the case. But, then, she rejects me in a new way, on a new day, and I'm back to feeling that way again.
> 
> Ironically (?), my wife tells me she thinks I'm just not that much into her, basically: "I don't think you ever really loved me, or even liked me." Which just stuns me even more. Anyone can come on here and say "But, I'm not like that." -- and how would you know. So, I don't expect anyone to believe me. But, I know of no one personally (friends, co-workers, family) who put as much energy and time into "meeting the needs" of their partner as have I. But, it was never enough. And it is not remembered by her, unless I point it out and maybe I'll get a "Yeah, well. You did do that." -- not with a smile, or a hug; just a reluctant aknowledgement.


Wow, so much for putting so much into your spouse...


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> I agree with the second part 1000%.
> 
> As for the duty sex, I'll add that if and *when it becomes clear that begrudged duty sex is not even a possibility, then one will long for it anyways*.


I think many here will disagree with this.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> I think many here will disagree with this.


Would some of them here prefer be-grudged duty sex, versus no sex at all for years on time?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> *I have often wondered if the above is more about the conflict with what the wife wants to do with her life. Having been raised to believe she can do anything career-wise, yet wanting to stay home with her child. She can't do both, recognizes that intellectually, yet is still unhappy as there is no good choice. * That frustration and anger can't be directed toward the child, and many are not willing to direct it toward themselves (a not uncommon human condition), so it is directed at others, with the husband being the easiest target.


I do think there is a conflict in my wife's head, when it comes to what she wants to do with her life, but different than described in the quote above. My suspicion is she does not want to have the responsibilities of motherhood, but yet she wants to do a good job raising the kids and enjoy as much of their lives as she can. She does not want to be a SAHM, yet she does not want to work full time and delegate childcare duties to anyone but her and myself. And, though, in some very real sense, her pregnancy was a deliberate conscious choice (we even had to have rely on help from a fertility specialist), she made that choice "under duress" -- her biological clock was ticking, and if it was going to be, it was going to be "then" and with "me." I feel she felt similarly about her and I getting married too -- after 4 1/2 years of being engaged and her dragging her feet to actually tie the knot -- I guess I get what I deserve for not figuring it out. Basically, my hunch is she is married, is a mother, and resents ME because I'm the one that made it all possible.

Further, I'll speculate that even if she could be happy being a SAHM, and deferring other pursuits until the kids move out, she has absorbed the notion somewhere along the way that that is "settling" or "not good enough". That is, I don't think she is truly free to choose -- that maybe there is too much baggage she absorbed from the 1960s/1970s/1980s culture that poo-pooed the goodness that being a SAHM could bring to a family, and the woman.

I'd ask her if this is the case, but she's just not into anything that might cause her to introspect.

Sorry if this is just a rant.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Would some of them here prefer be-grudged duty sex, versus no sex at all for years on time?


There are many here who would prefer no sex to begrudged duty sex.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> There are many here who would prefer no sex to begrudged duty sex.


I feel the same way when I have a sex life.. I would rather none than begrudged duty sex. However if I've gone through a 3 year complete drought, I would love to take a begrudged duty sex even of 5 minutes would be much better than nothing at all.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> There are many here who would prefer no sex to begrudged duty sex.





treyvion said:


> I feel the same way when I have a sex life.. I would rather none than begrudged duty sex. However if I've gone through a 3 year complete drought, I would love to take a begrudged duty sex even of 5 minutes would be much better than nothing at all.



Well, samyeagar, I'm afraid I am becoming one of those who would prefer to just not bother, if she isn't doing it out of love; I get that what I really hunger for is the love aspect, not the act in and of its self.

On the other hand, for awhile, I think I was able to fool myself that begrudged duty sex was really something "more real" than it was -- but, over time, I've lost the ability to lie to myself about that.

The worst part of duty sex is being denied even that. To think she isn't even willing to give me a 5 minute HJ to give me some (albeit fake) feeling that I value to her -- then, that hurts most of all.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Agree I nursed all 3 of mine and my high drive wasn't affected. Only thing was the boobs were off limits during the first 6 months. Too uncomfortable.


If you don't mind my asking, how long did you wait after childbirth to resume some sort of physical intimacy with your husband (not necessarily PIV)? And, what's the "normal" range as you might have perceived from other women you know?

In our case, with our first, I recall being rejected even a first post-birth HJ at 7 months, though my angst was probably pretty apparent. My impression at that time, and now, is that was much longer than most wait (and I don't recall how long before there was any contact -- maybe a month or two after that, I can't remember).

FWIW, there were no physical complications from the non-cesarean birth. But, I think post-partum depression was a factor.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

When I had my first child, I had no idea that it would be so overwhelming. My mental and physical exhaustion was so profound that i cannot remember the first 3 months of my daughters life. My body did things I never knew it could do. 

My emotions were so intense. My concerns about my ability to be a good mother paralysed me. When I looked at my baby girl for the first time, it was as if I already knew her whole life. I just had to get her there. 

I was consumed with all of that in the months following the birth of both of my children. My husbands experience was different but no less intense. He told me he felt more in love with me than ever when he saw ore daughter. All of the extra love dredged up in both of us by parenthood, was directed differently. He directed an equal share to me and baby and i gave it all to baby. 

That is how we started to unravel. We came back from the brink when I read about how different men experience love. I spoke with my husband about it and we have not stopped teaching each other to see out of two sets of eyes. 

Neither of us knew what the other was experiencing because we thought that being in love meant we would automatically understand. We shared so many of the same goals, values and ethics, how could we not know how the other feels? 

Understanding, doesn't hit you like a big pizza pie. It takes empathy, luck, and the ability to want to be successful and not righteous. It bothers me that men blame women for the poor transition some marriages make after children. I get the sense that women are supposed to see things from the mans point of view and drop all of that emotional drivel about pregnancy, childbirth and rearing. 

I think the men who are perceptive, loving and in control of themselves will accept that the experience of parenthood for women is different than for men. It is not wrong and not less psychologically adaptive. The female perspective is not responsible for the fall of America.

It would probably be more helpful if women were gently but firmly reminded the the co maker of the happy family is still there and thrilled with the changes of motherhood. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

From what I have seem it's usually women trying to be the very best Mum they can be...so they give it their all. 

Bit like the worker wanting to rise up through the ranks at work...he works hard and gives it his all.

I have actually felt really sorry for a few of the neglectful wives...they take a verbal beating here. They are treated not much better than the cheaters but I really truly believe most do it out of ignorance and a desire to be a great Mum. Not because they are cruel people who don't love their husbands. 

You see this in Itookhimforgranteds posts...she loves her husband very much and can NOW see what she has been doing wrong but she is no monster and she wants to repair the damage she did without realising it (despite poor old hubby trying to tell her over the years). 

Having said that... I also grew up in a loving home where Mum and Dads marriage was a top priority always. I loved growing up knowing my parents had such a great marriage... it was a huge gift to my sister and I. They have been married 51 years now. 

In our home I make sure my kids know how important the union between their dad and me is to our family. Without us the 'family unit' falls apart. We have date nights, weekends away and spend as much time as we can being a couple and having fun.

It's all good for our boys to see.


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## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> When I had my first child, I had no idea that it would be so overwhelming. My mental and physical exhaustion was so profound that i cannot remember the first 3 months of my daughters life. My body did things I never knew it could do.
> 
> My emotions were so intense. My concerns about my ability to be a good mother paralysed me. When I looked at my baby girl for the first time, it was as if I already knew her whole life. I just had to get her there.
> 
> ...


This is the second time you've either misinterpreted or misrepresented what I or someone else wrote. No one has claimed that this will cause the downfall of America - you're either doing this intentionally or haven't really read a word others or myself have written. What I, and others, have said is that these children are being raised as self-entitled and believing that they are somehow "special." Also, I'm a male who is interested in the perspective of other males who have lived this or females who have done this. I'm not interested in equalizing the sexes in the argument/discussion (if that's what you want to discuss, start your own thread on the topic, I'm sure it would be interesting) - I'm interested only in understanding the psychology of this sort of behavior and why some women think it's acceptable or that it should be tolerated. Again, do NOT misrepresent what I, or others, have written. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

Just my thoughts on this:
When the baby is first born, the mother gives everything to the baby, as it should be. 
The husband might start to feel neglected and feel his needs are not being met.
He then pulls away from the wife, who finds herself meeting her emotional needs by mothering.

For me personally, I was never into my kids to the exclusion of everything else, but they were a good distraction when I did not want to be around my H.
Mothering is also highly competitive, it leaves football or other sports for dead when you think of competition. If your kids aren't toilet trained at 8 months, reading at 2 and working on quadratic equations at 4 then you are obviously a bad mother who did not devote enough time and energy to her offspring.


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## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

Bellavista said:


> Just my thoughts on this:
> When the baby is first born, the mother gives everything to the baby, as it should be.
> The husband might start to feel neglected and feel his needs are not being met.
> He then pulls away from the wife, who finds herself meeting her emotional needs by mothering.
> ...


From reading some of the responses, it does seem that a lot of mothers do compete with each other. I'm all for competition but this sounds like it could be extremely stressful for the child, let alone the family unit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> I have only been reading about this phenonmen of wives neglecting husbands after children, since I've been on TAM (Nov '12). I'll be having my first in September and I really don't want to fall into this behavior. I know that new baby are a handful so I want to have a plan in place before the baby come.
> 
> But anyway, I thought I had read somewhere that while mothers are breastfeeding they are usually LD because the body know there already is a baby around so they are not motivated to conceive another one.
> 
> ...


One way to make sure you are giving your husband the attention he needs while still giving your children what they need is to follow the 15 hour a week rule.

A couple needs to spend at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of you, doing things that you enjoy together.

Now for the first 2-3 months of a baby's life they consume a lot of your time. But you can structure your life so that the baby does not rule you.

When a baby is born, it's the parent's job to teach the baby a schedule. It's one of the most important things parent do. If your child has sleeping problems, look up sources on how to handle this. They are out there.

Set meal times, nap times, bed time and morning wakeup time. 

So how do you get those 15 hours a week? Bed time is 7/8 pm for young children. Once the child is in bed, mom and day have a few hours to themself. 

Plan things for the two of you to do every evening after that baby/child goes to bed. Make like an in-home date. Take, get a hobby you both can work on for some nights, etc.

If you spend 7-9 together 7 days a week, that's 14 hours.

Or do this 5 days a week on work days... so that's 10 hours. Now on weekends you can have a 5 hour date on one day, or 2 shorter dates.

Do you have any child care lined up? Do you have family or friends who can help by baby sitting?

When my son was just a few months old one of my sisters or my mother would come over and watch. That way we could go for a walk alone or out for a lunch or short dinner date. 1-2 hours out will not hurt your child even at a young age and will wonders for keeping your marriage healthy.

One thing that works is to join a play group in your area. Make friends with the other moms. Then you can swap baby sitting with them for free.

Churchs also have parents night out where they will watch your child while you and hubby go out and do something together.

There are other places too for when your child gets old enough. There is a gymnastics school here that has friday & saturday night parents night out program. They watch you kid who gets gymnastics play/training and you get a date. We started using that when my son was about 3. A few of our friends would take their kids there and so our son had his friends to play with. It was great.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm curious how a young child is influenced by the dynamic you refer to, OP?

A lack lustre intimatcy issue... isn't apparent to a child of 7 who isn't kept up to speed on how things are going in that department. 
Maybe they would be aware of whether or not mommy and daddy get a sitter and go out on a date?

Role modelling for a relationship is more family based, IMO.
How much they touch, hug, spend time as a family.

But does a young child know if mom and dad spend 15 hrs together nurturing a relationship?

What do they notice?
Fighting or no fighting. 
How much Dad works, and how often he comes home before kids go to bed.

Wracking my brain... and I can't think of single time in my entire childhood that me or my friends ever compared how much our parents smooched or went on dates. Never. Not even as a teenager. And I certainly didn't want to know whether or not they "did it". Ewwww. All I knew was... they didn't fight. And I had a few sets of parents to compare. Foster ones.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that some motheres make their children the focus, excluding their husband to the point of distorying the marriage because they think that is what they are supposed to do. This is what they thing society and their peers are telling them is the right thing.

It's the same reason why some men (and women) put thier career ahead of their marriage. We often see men here talk rather proudly about how they support their family, working 80 hours a week and drive a long commute on top of that. And they cannot understand why their marriage fell apart. Well to make a marriage work, rule #1 is you have to be there with your spouse.

But these guys feel that they are doing what they are supposed to. Misguided people.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

deejov said:


> I'm curious how a young child is influenced by the dynamic you refer to, OP?
> 
> A lack lustre intimatcy issue... isn't apparent to a child of 7 who isn't kept up to speed on how things are going in that department.
> Maybe they would be aware of whether or not mommy and daddy get a sitter and go out on a date?
> ...


What children notice as the marriage falls apart is the distance between the parents, the fighting, and so forth. 

They also learn that the wide gap between the parents enables them to manipulate one parent against the other to get what they want.

If the parents have a healty relationship, the children learn how to also have a healthy relationship. It's one of the most important things parents can give to their children.

Parents speding 15 hours a week together, going on dates, and so forth is not done as a show for the kids. It's done to maintain a healthy marriage... the very foundation of the family.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This is obviously an emotionally charged issue for you. However, starting a thread on a public forum will get you post from people who agree and disagree with you. Some may upset you. Remain calm. That is the nature of the beast. 

Next time around, if you want only agreeable posts, stipulate that from the begining. I would have avoided your thread had i known that you wanted to hear from those who share your biases about "females". I thought that you were interested a reasoned exchange. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> This is obviously an emotionally charged issue for you. However, starting a thread on a public forum will get you post from people who agree and disagree with you. Some may upset you. Remain calm. That is the nature of the beast.
> 
> Next time around, if you want only agreeable posts, stipulate that from the begining. I would have avoided your thread had i known that you wanted to hear from those who share your biases about "females". I thought that you were interested a reasoned exchange.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are a few people who have responded that I don't necessarily agree with. The difference is that they don't misrepresent what others have written. If you want to hijack the thread and make assumptions and misrepresentations, start your own thread.

I also have no biases about "females" and don't know where you got that from. I've stated that this thread is about mothers who neglect their husbands for their children. "Females" and the biases you have fabricated for me have nothing to do with the discussion. *Don't hijack this thread*, it's adding nothing to the discussion. This is the last time I respond to your misrepresentations and sarcasm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> If you don't mind my asking, how long did you wait after childbirth to resume some sort of physical intimacy with your husband (not necessarily PIV)? And, what's the "normal" range as you might have perceived from other women you know?
> 
> In our case, with our first, I recall being rejected even a first post-birth HJ at 7 months, though my angst was probably pretty apparent. My impression at that time, and now, is that was much longer than most wait (and I don't recall how long before there was any contact -- maybe a month or two after that, I can't remember).
> 
> FWIW, there were no physical complications from the non-cesarean birth. But, I think post-partum depression was a factor.


You didn't direct this to me, but I thought I'd answer anyway. Five weeks post partum I was totally healed and we had PIV sex for the first time. We had done other things before that. For my second, it was about three weeks I think.

Talking to friends etc, somewhere between six weeks and three months seems to be pretty average.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Lyris said:


> .... maybe I value my relationship more than the women described here - being happy with my husband has always brought more fun and joy to my life than anything else so I fought hard to get it back.


There it goes, the key to happiness... No need for expensive psychological assessments or therapy... love will find a way  :smthumbup:


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> This is obviously an emotionally charged issue for you.


You've been the most emotional poster in this thread. It's a concerted effort on your part to create a straw man to argue with. This isn't some kind of indictment against women being mothers. 



waiwera said:


> I really truly believe most do it out of ignorance and a desire to be a great Mum.


The poster you chose to use as an example specifically acknowledged that she was punishing her husband. It is not beneficial to misrepresent that.

Saying so is not to make her into a monster but to stick with the truth. You can't let your personal beliefs over-ride the truth, so if she says she was punishing her husband we have to acknowledge it. That does a LOT more explaining than pretending it was just to be a great mum.

Because being a great mum does not explain ignoring years of sexual frustration brought to her attention, repeated demands for counseling, repeated statements about moving out...

Whereas punishing your husband does. All the above are signals that your program is working exactly as you intended. Until the day he moves out. Then suddenly there is a panic because you haven't thought much beyond making him miserable.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> It bothers me that men blame women for the poor transition some marriages make after children. I get the sense that women are supposed to see things from the mans point of view and drop all of that emotional drivel about pregnancy, childbirth and rearing.


Thanks for your perspective. But I am not sure where you get that "men blame women", and the part about "emotional drivel".

I'm for one very sad about the difficulties folks have, and am honestly seeking solutions, and trying to understand the possible causes. Blame, if there is any to be doled out, can fall where it may -- on me, if need be.

And, emotional drivel is not a term in my vocabulary.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> We came back from the brink when I read about how different men experience love. I spoke with my husband about it and we have not stopped teaching each other to see out of two sets of eyes.


Your husband is a lucky man.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

deejov said:


> But does a young child know if mom and dad spend 15 hrs together nurturing a relationship?


What the young ones will notice is the negative side-effects of not spending enough time nurturing the adults' relationship. The will also be impacted by the lack of visible affection that failure to nurture the relationship will lead to.

My wife and I have failed our kids miserably this way. Recently, I hugged my wife very affectionately, and gave her a fairly loving kiss on the lips, as I was heading out the door. I happened to notice D9 was watching and her smile was just beaming. A little thought later and I realized she had never ever seen that sort of affection before between us, maybe not between anyone in real life. I think 15 hours a week might have prevented this.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

OP,

I just realized my situation might be a bit different than you intended to discuss -- it depends on how important the work "for" is in your title "...for the children".

In my case, I do not believe she has neglected me intentionally for the children at my expense. Rather, I think for whatever reason immediately after childbirth (sleep deprivation, stress, depression, hormones, ???), she had nothing to give me and/or despised the notion of being "expected" to give me anything. Simultaneously, we both neglected the care and feeding if our relationship.

Now, after many years (D13, D4), I suspect most of the situational and biochemical factors are no longer present. But her disinterest/neglect is still here -- there is just too much resentment or resignation or lack-of-memory of "us as a couple" for her to find motivation to fix it.


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## Chris H. (Jan 27, 2007)

Anytime we generalize about one sex or the other, we risk angering people. No one likes to be generalized about.

If you want to start a debate about about why a spouse neglects the other spouse after children are born, please do so without bringing gender into it.

Thanks.


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