# Where the truth lies



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

This is my story. On the Tuesday afternoon (less than a week ago) after a sensational Easter long weekend I was sitting down with my partner’s work laptop. She had brought it home because we were yet again without our PC due to tech faults. (my partner and I have been together 18 years)

I attempted to access my hotmail account but from Google sign in it opened straight into the inbox of my partner’s account. Right before my eyes were a number of read and unread messages from another male. I did not recognize the name.

I kid you not my heart took off like a freight train. I could literally feel it pumping in my chest before I read a word. There were only a few messages and I read them all. Included were 3 messages with photos attached. I also then scrolled through and read my partners replies. I was blown out.

I didn’t have the presence of mind to fwd these to my own hotmail account but I didn’t need to. My partner was intimately involved with this man. There was a photo of his torso and another suggestive photo of a voluptuous cartoon secretary leaning over a desk (his idea of a fantasy). The third photo I subsequently discovered was a close up of my partner’s breasts. (very funny, why didn’t I recognize them you ask? I thought it was another provocative image he had lifted from the net to titillate her. For what it’s worth my partner does have exquisite breasts).

Without losing control I asked my partner to explain the e-mails. Her initial reaction was a mixture of “what are you talking about?” and, believe it or not, “What is Hotmail?” to “I haven’t got a Hotmail account” to the even more embarrassing “That is nothing to do with me, a previous employee used this laptop” followed speedily by “What are doing, what is this, why are you going through…”

Because our kids were in the next room I kept my head but also kept asking questions. After she explained to me it was a work colleague from a position she held in 2011 and that they were just “mucking around” there was a lull. When she later walked past me I asked her directly to her face “have you slept with this bloke”. She denied it eye to eye and shortly after confessed she had caught up with him for a morning coffee and given him a peck on the cheek. (yeah, that old line)

Later that evening while the kids were at sports training I began asking questions again. This quickly descended into a slanging match and evolved into a detailed critique of my character at which point I fell silent and copped both barrels from her. Not for the first time I was reminded of the negative highly critical man I had become, particularly in the last 5 years. (I will talk more on that later because, to be fair, there is much truth to her comments about me).

Later that night after the kids were in bed we had no quality communication because while I had headed off to reclaim my kids and spend time at their training my partner had built up a head of steam to the point where she uttered the classic line “I feel violated”. I pleaded with her to communicate but she was unable to move past her anger. That night I could not sleep and could not stop those images and the words, God the words! 

In the final e-mail, this man, who has two teenage kids, talked about an open relationship with his wife, how the wife knew he was in contact with my partner but how he knew that it was a bridge to far because of our kids and me. Based on questions I have asked my partner this was apparently the tail end of their time together and he was acknowledging the argument that she, my partner, couldn’t be involved if the wife was there – or something to that effect. 

Yes, a bit confusing but the two key points were he was claiming his wife condoned his extramarital affair and the words at the end of the reply from my partner which stated she’d “still like to play”.

I was in shock, as you’d expect because, like the night before, I could not get the swirling images out of my head. And then, on that next day, Wednesday I was overcome with a bloodhound’s instinct to get to the bottom of this. But without a PC I powered into domestic chores until school finished and stewed until my partner, the breadwinner, returned. (I have been Mr Mum for the last 7 years and have doing casual work where I can to supplement our income).

Come Thursday I was a rabid dog existing on 1-2 hours of sleep. I went to my doctor who prescribed me 2 weeks worth of the first anti-depressants I had ever taken and put me on a Mental Health Program including a referral to a psychologist. My partner had implored me for years to get on the happy pills due to my depression. She herself is on them. The discovery of my partners betrayal prompted me to finally take that step to heal my depression, something I had put off for years and well...a little late.

Having picked up our PC same day I tried to work out who this snake was but with no success. But in the end it was surprisingly easy. My partner had again brought her work laptop home. After everyone was asleep I used her computer but she had wiped all the e-mails. Then my thoughts fell to her 2 mobile phones. After some navigating I discovered the horrible truth. It contained iphone communication from December 2012 to March this year. In short the correspondence was sexually graphic. It’s called sexting, I call it misery. The only good piece of news was that I now had his mobile phone number.

The next day, Friday morning, I was still high on my too strong speedy happy pills and adrenalin from lack of sleep. I mulled over the pros and cons of calling him. By mid morning after much thinking I worked up the courage. I wanted to keep calm and had decided that the only way to deal with this snake was to go in hard. Initially I texted him but he proved deceptive, demanding to know who I was. After numerous rounds of texting tennis I finally I gave him a deadline to call me by drawing him out of his hole with the following message. “In U R best interest 2 call me b4 I call U R family – offer expires midday” The snake called back immediately.

To cut to the chase – the snake who was a senior manager of an Australian arm of a well-known US Co., confessed everything. They’d done the deed in his car in June 2012 after a staff re-union party for another company where they had once worked together. Since June there had been other hot and heavy meetings in car parks and a second act months later at a hotel - right after my partner had been out to lunch with her girlfriends. 

When I say confessed everything, I mean everything! I had this absurd desire to know exactly what they’d done. Yes, it was an act of flagellation but I could not stop myself. I kept pinning this snake down, demanding detail. In the end I told him we would soon meet face to face and that I was considering notifying his family. Finally I demanded that he contact my partner immediately and sensitively finish it (yes, stupid move I hear you say, but the best I could come up with). 

He did just that and even called me back to report in. For 45 minutes I owned this bastard. But get this – he had to leave a voicemail (which I heard a few days later from her iphone) telling her that I had confronted him and knew everything. My partner never called him back. He reported to me that she had texted to him the following “I can’t believe that you have ruined my life, never contact me again”. I kid you not.

My partner and I finally had a sit-down on Saturday morning. Once again she was defensive and pushed the violation line. She insisted, as she had in e-mails to me from work the day before that she had “ended it ages ago”. It became heated, I implored he to see how the e-mails themselves defied this claim. (I had e-mailed her at work, dissecting all the inconsistencies).

In return mail she then turned it back on me as she had done on Tuesday – “you didn’t give me the courtesy of telling me first. Once again you have treated me like a child. You just decided to go ahead and fix it like you always do. This was not your problem to fix and you should have spoken to me about it first. You talk about trust well you don’t trust me and never have – always double checking everything, still treating me as a child. Yes, it felt nice to be desired and wanted and to have someone treat me with respect – but that is not all a relationship is about”. And finally – “I love you, I love talking to you and sharing with you and I love parenting our children together”.

Finally by Friday morning she had softened somewhat and sent me the following -

“You have every right to be angry and upset and I don’t blame you. I make no excuses for my behavior and I only wish that I could take it all back. When I tell you he meant nothing to me – I hope you can believe that.

I knew very early that he was not where I wanted to be, but it felt nice to be appreciated and wanted. I don’t expect you to believe me, but I put an end to it ages ago – he just found it hard to let go and I thought that I could handle it.

I don’t want you to take all the blame on yourself, there have been times that I have found it extremely hard to be with you and even times when I thought I wanted to walk away, but I can’t stand the idea of you not being in my life. I do love you and I do want to spend the rest of my life with you – I just didn’t want it to be the person you had turned into. I understand that you have issues and anger from your earlier life, but you refused to discuss it with me and you refused to do anything about it, you were basically telling me just to deal with, so I tried.

Our relationship has always managed to get back on track, we have times when we are really close and times when we are not – that is just how relationships go. I want you to understand that you and the kids mean the world to me and the thought of losing you makes me feel sick. 

I finally understand what I have got to lose and I want you to know that I can promise you – actually guarantee you that this will NEVER happen again with him or anyone. 

I have learnt my lesson and I only hope that you can forgive me and we can move on from this. I am really glad that you finally spoke to the doctor and got some happy pills, I have only ever wanted for you to be happy and for a long time there, I didn’t think I could help make you happy.

I am hoping that you will give me a chance to show you how much you mean to me and that we can take it a day at a time and rebuild our relationship. I do want to be with you and I do want intimacy in our relationship – we just need to find a way to get that back. I know we can and I hope that we can do it together.

I do love you and I love our life together with the kids and I will do ANYTHING to ensure that I do not lose it.”

I will end on this note and finish by saying that the inconsistencies remain. She accused me earlier of misinterpreting and getting things out of context. On Saturday morning she again pushed this line and went to great lengths to underplay it – literally saying again “It meant nothing” My God! After much heat I finally had had enough and told her I could prove that she was encouraging him up until late Feb 2013. 

It was the then that she repeated her claim that I was taking it out of context and interpreting it for my “own view”. At that moment I recalled where this had come from. It was another e-mail she had sent me on Thursday afternoon. She had further claimed about this snake “ I didn’t encourage – but I didn’t totally discourage. I didn’t know what he would do if I just totally cut him off. I was concerned he would cause trouble. I was trying to get rid of him slowly so there would be no ramifications”. Helloooooo!!!!

I then had no choice but to grab her iphone and prove to her that she was a liar. You should have seen the look on her face when I navigated to the explicit messages from Dec to March 2013. (approximately 30 messages). It proved conclusively she had not “ended it ages ago”. I told her that to me it was just the end of that section. IMO the fireworks were bound to start again. She denies this and now is pushing the “A lot of it was joking around, I didn’t actually see him”.

Which is true by the way. She hasn’t actually seen him since last year – just these sexts (just as bad). But anyway tonight, Sunday, we have descended into a brawl. I was an absent depressed partner who made her life a misery and she fell for the tender snake who, surprise surprise, happened to have the senior position and the suit and the car. Why didn’t she bonk the guy packing boxes in the warehouse? 

Yes, I’m joking – what a mess and all the time this compromised and corrupted snake sits at home with his wife and teenage kids playing the benevolent and loving patriarch. I now know where his wife works but deep down I don’t want to damage another family.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

key logging software on your comp will get you her pw. no idea what the laws are on them in australia.

webwatcher is supposedly the easiest.

VAR her car in a few months you might just catch her talking to him again.

she has no consequences so she will do it again eventually.

i take it you are live in boyfriend girlfriend.

FWIW it took me a minute to figure it out. partner often means same sex in the US.

sorry you are here.

you did save the texts right?


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Truth is, I squirmed uncomfortably in my chair while reading her responses, and can only guess at what you went through in front of her..

Your thread should be stickied for all to see - "Blameshifting, Gaslighting and Trickle Truth 101, 102, 103, 104, 108 plus extra hours and field experimentations".

Weightlifter is right, he doesn't not mean anything to her. No woman spreads legs for some nobody. She'll do it again. With him.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Horizon said:


> ... what a mess and all the time this compromised and corrupted snake sits at home with his wife and teenage kids playing the benevolent and loving patriarch. I now know where his wife works but deep down I don’t want to damage another family.


I don’t want to damage another family.??? Huh?

How would YOU damage that family? The snake did it himself. The view you have of "don't be a snitch" is much of the problem in today's society. 

If you were walking down the street and saw smoke pouring from the attic of a neighbors home while they were happily splashing in the backyard pool what would you do? 

According to you, you would remain silent and not alarm them so as to not ruin their outdoor fun. 

There are termites in their marriage. They infected your marriage but you want to remain silent and let that poor woman continue in a rotting marriage. Way to go kimosabe.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

She pretending as caving in to protect her OM from you exposing him to his family and at work.

She is not remorseful.

Get tested for STDs and ask her to do the same.
Expose them far and wide. Install a Key logger on your computer they may be lying low or may have taken it underground. They doing everything as per their plan to save him from exposure. SO EXPOSE him to his family and friends......
VAR in her car.
How can you allow him to sit back without any consequences after banging your wife?


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Another SAHD.........

Find a job immediately. What ever the reason for you not working the SAHDs lose their respect and sex value in s period of time. Seven yrs its too long.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh wow. She is a real piece of work. She consistently lies and puts your health at risk for STD's. You clearly cannot believe anything she says. If the roles were reversed she would not have been as forgiving as you?

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. Contact the OM's wife immediately. Her comment to the OM "can we still play" says it all which is why you must contact the OM's wife.
3. See a lawyer to understand your options. She will have to pay you alimony.
4. It is always to check on the paternity of your children. She is such a good liar that you have no idea if this has happened previously.

What have been the consequences to her actions? Do you think she engaged in this behavior because she felt she had nothing to lose since you would forgive her anyway? I can guarantee you that you have no idea how many times she has been with this guy. She has no respect for you or your marriage whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Another SAHD.........
> 
> Find a job immediately. What ever the reason for you not working the SAHDs lose their respect and sex value in s period of time. Seven yrs its too long.


Hear, hear! I was coming right to the reply box to say the same thing.

OP, forget about this notion that men and women are truly equal and women can respect and feel sexual for a guy who spends his life folding panties and scrubbing the family toilets all day. It's a lie - a very dangerous one - and she proved it by going off and screwing a male SENIOR MANAGER. She wants to be the first officer but YOU must be the Captain.

For all the feminist bluster, women need to respect the man they are with as a MAN, not a "partner".

Do you plan to reconcile or divorce over this? What is your gut telling you to do?


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

Call the guys wife now and do not tell your partner you are doing it . This is a must . It sends a message that you are not going to allow this to happen and his wife has a right to know. I would out him at his job also . Hit him where it's gonna hurt him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This is extremely blatant blameshifting here on the part of your partner and you are buying into it. She has shifted the blame for her infidelity to you and your language reeks of what is almost guilt for her transgressions. You shouldn't be asking her or imploring her.

She is doing what all cheaters do best, which is lie about everything, including you and your marital history. So you're not the perfect partner - welcome to the human race. That doesn't justify what she's doing. Ever.

So stop letting her deflect the blame. Just stop it right now. She doesn't get to 'explain' her cheating by pointing the finger at you. She's the one with the tawdry, sweaty car sex that is blowing apart a family. Until you completely discover your spine and she completely owns her betrayal, you two don't have a prayer of keeping anything together. Mark my words here. These are unfortunately the lessons of Betrayal 101.

And btw, you owe the snake absolutely nothing. You should expose him immediately to his BW. She has an absolute right to know what her H is doing so that she can make informed decisions about her own life.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Horizon said:


> this compromised and corrupted snake sits at home with his wife and teenage kids playing the benevolent and loving patriarch. I now know where his wife works but deep down I don’t want to damage another family.


If YOU still were in the dark, and the other man's wife was considering telling you, but wasn't sure if you wanted to know, or it would ruin your marriage or family, how would you feel? Would you like her to keep it to herself, or tell you?

Almost every one of us would rather know, than not know.

She is a human being, making decisions about her husband, her family, and her life. Perhaps considering having another child, perhaps considering other types of long-term commitments.

SHE DESERVES TO KNOW.

You think it is cruel to tell her.

I say it is cruel NOT to tell her.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Whose idea was it not to get married?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Horizon said:


> To cut to the chase – *the snake who was a senior manager of an Australian arm of a well-known US Co.*, confessed everything. They’d done the deed in his car in June 2012 after a staff re-union party for another company where they had once worked together. Since June there had been other hot and heavy meetings in car parks and a second act months later at a hotel - right after my partner had been out to lunch with her girlfriends.
> 
> When I say confessed everything, I mean everything! I had this absurd desire to know exactly what they’d done. Yes, it was an act of flagellation but I could not stop myself. I kept pinning this snake down, demanding detail. In the end I told him we would soon meet face to face and that I was considering notifying his family. Finally I demanded that he contact my partner immediately and sensitively finish it (yes, stupid move I hear you say, but the best I could come up with).
> 
> He did just that and even called me back to report in. For 45 minutes I owned this bastard. But get this – he had to leave a voicemail (which I heard a few days later from her iphone) telling her that I had confronted him and knew everything. My partner never called him back. He reported to me that she had texted to him the following “I can’t believe that you have ruined my life, never contact me again”. I kid you not.


After you tell his wife, tell his company.

Write them a formal letter, don't just send it to human resources, send it to his boss, his division head, the CEO find out who their independent auditor is and send it to them. (Get their annual report.)

In the letter, include that you are the husband of a subordinate with whom he had an affair, include his name and your wife's name, tell them he confessed it all to you, and give them enough incriminating emails so they know it's true.

Let them know you are considering suing them for alienation of affection for fostering a toxic work environment where superiors take sexual advantage of their subordinates apparently relying on the fact that there is little or no company oversight or supervision of what goes on on company communication devices, networks, and systems.

Let them know you currently are trying to dissuade your wife from filing a sexual harassment complaint and that, no matter what the emails say, your wife may have felt pressured to perform sexually for this man at the fear of losing her job and having her marriage blown up.

Ask for a response to your letter.

Send it certifield mail.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Horizon said:


> My partner was intimately involved with this man. There was a photo of his torso and another suggestive photo of a voluptuous cartoon secretary leaning over a desk (his idea of a fantasy). *The third photo I subsequently discovered was a close up of my partner’s breasts*. (very funny, why didn’t I recognize them you ask?
> 
> Without losing control I asked my partner to explain the e-mails. Her initial reaction was a mixture of “what are you talking about?” and, believe it or not, *“What is Hotmail?” *to *“I haven’t got a Hotmail account”* to the even more embarrassing *“That is nothing to do with me, a previous employee used this laptop”* followed speedily by *“What are doing, what is this, why are you going through…”*
> 
> ...


A lot of good chestnuts there from your partner. Some of the best I've read in a while. I think my favorite is the one where she says she loves "sharing with you."

I also find it very disheartening that all of her statements individually and combined paint you as her roommate.

Sit down with her and tell her that if she wants the marriage to continue, she is going to have to tell you the truth. Point out one or two lies, tell her there are many more that you don't want to waste time going lie by lie, just for her to sit and tell you the truth about what was going on.

Tell her that her lies, leaking out the truth a little at a time, and minimizing it has been worse than the affair itself, and tell her that she has until the end of the night to tell you the whole truth, and answer your questions honestly.

She, like all cheaters, was an outstanding liar when it came to covering up the affair, but is a horrible liar trying to explain the details once the affair was uncovered. Tell her that since she's been caught, her lies and statements have not added up in the least and you tire of being lied to. Tell her you will break with her if she doesn't give you a story that makes sense, she hasn't been able to tell a decent lie since she's been caught, does she really want to take a chance on losing you and the kids if she continues to lie. 

Tell her you can recover from the truth, but the lies will poison your relationship forever.


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## Doyle (Mar 6, 2013)

Tell the guys wife partly because she deserves to know and partly because your wifes reaction will tell you a lot.

Also it lets your wife know your not buying the line's she puting out.

Good luck .


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Whatever it is you decide, your wife is a hell of a manipulator. Be careful with her.

How old are the kids ?


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

I think your wife should tell the OMW. You said you wouldn't but you can't control what she does. Im sure shell gladly throw him under the bus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*She loves sharing with you. *By, 'eck, she does that!

Share the risk of STDs, of HIV and there's that special, caring, sharing when she turns her husband into an unwitting cuckold.

Is this her first affair?

Even if you think it is, insist on having the kid's DNA tested. This is not -necessarily- to test their DNA it provides an important message to a Wayward Wife: "You see, wife? Now I can trust nothing from even the very earliest days of our marriage. And this is your fault."


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Don't be too hasty to forgive. You have to realize that regarless of how badly you want things to "get back to normal" things will never be the same. 

It's one of those BIG turning poinits in life that changes a "normal" to a new normal. You usually are somewhat prepared for BIG turning points, marriage, start of a career, birth of a child, and sometimes death. At other times BIG turning points are unexpected, layoff, accidental death. Unfortunately discovery of infidelity is fits here and a new normal is about to begin. 

But you have some say in how that new normal will be shaped. Take control of your ability to change it. If you don't, the new normal will be changed by other players.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your comments. Just so you know we are in a defacto relationship and our kids are 9 & 12. 

After much consideration I spoke briefly to his wife earlier today but she has not returned my call as promised. All I got to say was it is "about your husband". I detected a slight knowing tone and, let's face it, where was the curiosity / shock? Yet more mystery, more awful questions.

Naturally she will want to protect her family. I'm guessing she has called her H and he has pushed some line about me being a vindictive nut job just to satisfy her. Who knows? Or maybe it's an old story and he completely controls her life? 

I don't know what to do. More contact could involve an AVO or some type of harassment charges directed at me. I feel I should back up with a text to flush her out but if she rejects it what's the point. I thought perhaps a detailed text and leave it at that or should I write to her? I don't know. I'm not a heavy hitter by nature people.

I appreciated the incite and suggestions but the reality is always different. The fact is I am an economic prisoner as much as a deceived partner and I don't want to harm my kids. We are into the bank for a bundle on our home and I do not have a income stream to support just moving out.(not yet)

Look, I'm in a terrible bind. I have been in dodgy health for the last 2 years (diabetes etc). I have let myself go and done nothing even though I have maintained my responsibilities as a parent. I still am in love with my lady and we want to be together and she is saying the same thing and is remorseful but those of you with a dispassionate view can see the obvious holes in it.

It is not going to work out If I become this vindictive ogre. I have told her she will just have to put up with the sudden explosive questions after the kids are asleep. I have said I can't control this roller coaster of emotions, which you created. She accepts that but as is her nature she comes back to her central argument that I turned from her / we turned from each other. 

The rot started around 2006 i estimate. I can't deny it. I have to accept that even though cheating is not justifiable that the fact that I descended into the ugly hyper critical and unfit man that I am today is my responsibility. I started feeling me age, I had no energy desire to do a thing about it.

Many times she asked me to get help for my depression and I did not - I joked about my weight saying " It's OK for us men, we don't need to change..." It was a joke covering up the deep issues within myself.

You think I am weak? Well yes, I am weak. I can't maintain the rage. I know the ground has shifted under my feet and there will always be questions but this woman will not be dominated. My weak & loving nature wants to forgive. Part of me wants to have revenge against this creep but am I really going to go into his office and create mayhem? 

This betrayal has floored me. I expect my partner to crawl but that won't happen. She was crying last night and deeply remorseful at the end but not before she said if I could hold off leaving until the kids were older. This was because I had just finished saying I can't take it and it was finished. She even wondered if I wanted to sleep in the spare room. She said wouldn't stop (kinda playing the victim but with other ramifications this remark) me, she'd understand. No way i said.

Look, all types of things are said - think about this. After last night's brawl had quietened a bit she went on the offensive by saying "please!, you are all upset now when for 5 years you couldn't stand the site of me. Now you want me!" I said "well if that's the case why are you so eager to want to work it out with me and promising, no, guaranteeing this will never happen again and saying the thought of losing you makes me sick?" Cue diversion. 

That's what I was reminded of last night. How my partner is the master of taking the conversation down a dead end. It's a tactic. I had to struggle to keep on topic. And even so, when I got to my point she'd just looked at me or dismissed it with some throwaway line. She cannot stand the thought of me having the moral ground or cast as the victim after the way I have dealt with her for the last five years.

Deep relationship issues have finally come to a head with this act of infidelity. I've got to get on with being Dad and functioning in the community and the God awful emotional weight of betrayal is destroying me.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Thank you everyone for your comments. Just so you know we are in a defacto relationship and our kids are 9 & 12.
> 
> After much consideration I spoke briefly to his wife earlier today but she has not returned my call as promised. All I got to say was it is "about your husband". I detected a slight knowing tone and, let's face it, where was the curiosity / shock? Yet more mystery, more awful questions.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead:


For how many days 3, 4 or a week? Dont punish her like this.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I have type 2 diabetes. You must shed excess weight for your kids if not for you. It's not easy. But doable. No sugar, watch carb intake, etc.

You and your wife can get through this IF she goes NC on her lover.

I would guess from his wife's reaction that maybe they do have an open cesspit, sorry, relationship, but would she be OK with being partly responsible for a family splitting up? That's the problem with open relationships.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Horizon

Good job. You confronted your girlfriend, did not stop until you got the truth, confronted the OM, hit him hard and got the truth.

Then you spoke to his wife.

You should take any texts and emails, print them and hand them to his wife.

You should tell her that you will keep your girlfriend away from her husband if she keeps her husband away from your wife.

You should report him to the company but I can understand not jeapordizing her job with you out of work.

Now you have to get your wife to work on the relationship with you.

And she needs to not lie to you. You guys have to communicate.

And my friend you need to get your diabetes and weight under control. I am a Type 2 as well. My wife deserves a better, healthier husband and I aim to give it to her.

You also need to fix your depression and attitude.

I am glad you are honest wit yourself and you have a lot to work on but you both can fix this if you do it together.

Also, get a job. Your partner will always have a lack of respect for you when it comes to being a stay at home Dad.

We have seen this a hundred times on TAM.

So get healthy.
Get a job.
Fix your depression and attitude.
Start communicating together and with each other.
Finish your business the OMW. Let her babysit her husband.
And get your partner to a point in your relationship that she can be honest with you.

And my only question. before this cheating why have you never married your partner????

HM64


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks for this hm64. All the evidence has been ditched by her. I wasn't smart there. Emotion got in the way - I just powered ahead. But...just tonight I went back to her iphone and yes, the contact details are gone, the sexting has been deleted but I opened voice mail and found 4 messages from him in the deleted bin. There was the call he made to her last week after I demanded he break it off and then 4 old messages (as in Dec 2012). One of which was explicit in what he'd like to do to her. OK, I can't really be sure if she is just sloppy (why I busted her in the first place) but they were in the bin. You know it's funny, I have this need to really get the graphic detail, which I got from him last week. I tortured myself but it also confirmed that those things I thought were only my domain have been ransacked. And it allowed me to compare it with what she had first said. As for his wife I ended up sending her a text. I was sincere and did not use disparaging comments or bad language. I shared with here a piece of information that only her and her husband would know to prove i was not a crackpot. She did not reply just as she did not get back to me earlier. What now? I'm kind of over it but part of me wants to fire more shots across his bow. I'm not keen on going at his wife again but being ignored does get under my skin. And...I just remembered...I texted him early Saturday morning and he did not respond. I guess I don't own him anymore. As for me - that's a tough one. I appreciate your tips. I can walk but I can't run real well due to dodgy ankles. I'm going to swim again. I am eating about half of my normal intake since this broke last week. But i do eat well. My appetite left town. Why we didn't marry? I don't know - we were both divorced with no kids and then had two. We just didn't get around to it. Look there is a lot here which will come out in therapy when I start seeing this psychologist dude this week. My partner is being very nice and attentive but you know it's limbo land emotionally - she said tonight "I'm not ignoring it, if you want to talk. I'm waiting for you to ask something but I'm very tired. 15 minutes later she was in bed. She works hard but some of you may be interested to know that she drinks half a bottle of whisky every night and has for years. It has been a massive problem for me - once again I appear to be the female in this "Once Was a Relationship" movie. Yeah I believe she is a functioning alcoholic but when I have tackled it, which I rarely do these days, her stock response is - "I'm a grown woman, stop telling me what to do. You've got the problem with alcohol because your father used to get drunk and hurt you on Friday nights" (which is true) and finally " You have no right to tell me to stop drinking when you can't stop eating" I would argue that I was perfectly positioned to comment on alcohol consumption based on my experience. Far from an irrational fear I have the insight to recognise when drinking is a problem. But she did not and will not concede a centimetre on this. Which brings another question - how pissed was she when she went all the way. There was definitely alcohol on board. And finally, I could not tell you when we last had sober sex. Probably never - seriously.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Horizon said:


> She works hard but some of you may be interested to know that *she drinks half a bottle of whisky every night and has for years.* It has been a massive problem for me - once again I appear to be the female in this "Once Was a Relationship" movie. Yeah *I believe she is a functioning alcoholic but when I have tackled it, which I rarely do these days, her stock response is - "I'm a grown woman, stop telling me what to do. *You've got the problem with alcohol because your father used to get drunk and hurt you on Friday nights" (which is true) and finally " You have no right to tell me to stop drinking when you can't stop eating" I would argue that I was perfectly positioned to comment on alcohol consumption based on my experience. Far from an irrational fear I have the insight to recognise when drinking is a problem. But *she* did not and *will not concede a centimetre on this.* Which brings another question - how pissed was she when she went all the way. There was definitely alcohol on board. And finally, *I could not tell you when we last had sober sex. Probably never - seriously.*


No hope here. She's full blown alcoholic.
No. Hope.

Recovering alcoholic here. 15 years sober adn counting.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Op, here is a quick read of a WS side



CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Hardtohandle said:
> 
> 
> > Let see
> ...


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Horizon
> 
> So get healthy.
> *Get a job.*
> ...



I agree with getting a job. That should be your first task. Working out and getting healthy will solve your depression and attitude. Get some confidence. Stop being a SAHD.

Expose to your family and hers if you have not done so.

Why did you not marry her? Either way this makes it easier for you to get a job and leave her. Make something of yourself so you can marry a woman whom you can actually be able to provide for instead of having your gf take care of you while you take care of the children you can find a loyal WIFE who can take care of you and your children/future children.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Horizon said:


> "please!, you are all upset now when for 5 years you couldn't stand the site of me. Now you want me!" I said "well if that's the case why are you so eager to want to work it out with me and promising, no, guaranteeing this will never happen again and saying the thought of losing you makes me sick?" Cue diversion.


This sounds like blame shifting and justification and avoiding the incident at hand by minimizing her actions and diverting to YOU.

You took no part in her cheating and are NOT RESPONSIBLE OR AT FAULT not even in the SLIGHTEST to justify her cheating. Cheating is intrinsically evil, it is no good for whatever the reason if it is to have a REVENGE affair, it is wrong.

Start working out and don't stop until you look like Michaelangelo's david or my avatar. Your old wittol self is gone, rid yourself of that sedentary lifestyle and MOVE on, in all sense of the word, MOVE.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You are your own biggest enemy


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You are your own biggest enemy


:iagree:

Do not hold yourself back. You've wasted enough time, don't settle for being contempt, grow strong.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Horizon

I know therapy will be good for you.

But it also sounds like you need a plan.

Whether you decide to Reconcile or ditch your partner never settle in life.

Fix your issues. Get your health back.

And if you truly love this woman even after her lying and cheating then make a stand against her drinking.

She needs to quit drinking and get proper boundaries in place so this nonsense never happens again.

*You both can be happy with each other but you never will be if you are unhappy with yourselves.....*


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Horizon said:


> This is my story. On the Tuesday afternoon (less than a week ago) after a sensational Easter long weekend I was sitting down with my partner’s work laptop. She had brought it home because we were yet again without our PC due to tech faults. (my partner and I have been together 18 years)
> 
> I attempted to access my hotmail account but from Google sign in it opened straight into the inbox of my partner’s account. Right before my eyes were a number of read and unread messages from another male. I did not recognize the name.
> 
> ...


Wow. These stories almost never end up like this. You really took control of the situation and handled yourself. Do you think she ended this phase of her life ( the cheating )?


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Glad you said that. Now it's like there is not a lot I can do and we are treading softly until what...she literally can't sit there and take much more. 

Already, after a few drinks to wind down from her intense job, she is praising me to the kids and offering help with some ludicrous thing ("do you want a hand feeding the animals...?")

It is as though she has dealt with it psychologically. She has locked it away and moved on and is waiting for me to catch up. 

That's the reality folks. She has already done the worse case scenario and the math. She knows that if I walk today (5.00am local time right now by the way) what she's up against. She has the power in that sense despite the fact both names are on the title deed.

If I lay down the law and tell her she has to get help with the drinking etc etc she'll fight it as she has done for years. I have lost my balls and I need to be able to find them quick and work myself into a situation where I can physically and financially "walk". 

Kids come first of course but I need that backbone. I've got to get a plan - work / fitness / boundaries.

Hey, I'm struggling with a lot of the abbreviations used. Is there somewhere I can reference? Some are obvious but the other day i was reading one which was about ten letters???


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

WW = Wayward Wife
WH = Wayward Husband
WS = Wayward Spouse
BH = Betrayed Husband
BW = Betrayed Wife
BS = Betrayed Spouse
LS = Loyal Spouse
DW = Disloyal Wife
DH = Disloyal Husband
DS = Disloyal Spouse
fWW = Former Wayward Wife
fWH = Former Wayward Husband
fWS = Former Wayward Spouse
OM = Other Man
OW = Other Woman
OMW = Other Man’s Wife
OWH = Other Woman’s Husband
AP = Affair Partner
R = Reconciliation
D = Divorce
DDay = Discovery Day
STBXH = Soon To Be Ex Husband
STBXW = Soon To Be Ex Wife
ILYBINILWY = I Love You But I’m Not In Love With You
EA = Emotional Affair
PA = Physical Affair
A = Affair
KISA = Knight In Shining Armor
VAR = Voice Activated Recorder
TT = Trickle Truth
SAHM = Stay At Home Mom
SAHD = Stay At Home Dad


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

read this newbie thread: 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

You brought children into this world, they look up to you as their role model, the man who protects them and cares for them. The man they can come to when the world gets too harsh and they need shelter.
You set the example for them to follow. You set the standard. You don't need cliches like backbone or balls. Those kids go to bed at night knowing they're safe because daddy is there. 
But it starts with you, it ends with you. No one else can magic up self worth. Right now you feel under valued and alone, health wise you're not at your best. But what about the future? Don't you want to see your kids fulfill their lives ambitions? To be there smiling as they make something of themselves?

Before you split yourself into pieces trying to cater for everybody, you need to pull together and cater for yourself. Start to make plans for your future, a strategy of what to do with your wife, one that won't get side tracked by her clever blame shifting. Listen to the people here who've been through it and can probably give you way better advice than I can. 
Listen and start to act. 
Take control of your life.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

happyman64, warlock07, CJS - thanks - that last post was in direct response to your comments.

Yes warlock07 - I am my own biggest enemy and have been for a long time. There is a undiagnosed bi-polar / depression history in our family. My father suffered big time. But no excuses now.

DaddyLongShanks - I am proud of myself to a degree. I'm a bit passive (and can be aggressive) by nature so this was refreshing in a sense. Get out of neutral and into gear, get on the front foot and kick some ass as our yankee cousins would say. Has she ended this phase of cheating. Gut feeling is yes but after this how can I be sure? Reading some of the stories - frighteningly similar. She's ten years younger than me - who's to say she will not face the same situation again, especially through that notorious corporate culture she is attached to and where seemingly no one can act with fidelity. To be perfectly honest I wouldn't be surprised if she has, as as i said earlier, done the math, looked at me and wondered - well, the kids will have independence around this age and that's not too far off - another couple of years, they can be trusted with a house key etc etc.

So, have I become the bloke who keeps the joint in order - the hired help but entirely expendable? You bet I reckon. I'm up at 4am this morning because I can't sleep and she's wrapped up blissfully in our doona out like a light.

Finally - besides drinking I have had huge issues with her spending particularly since online shopping exploded. She refuses to meet me on this, just like the drinking (which with the consumption of a mountain of soda is costing about $120 per week - what I could put that money towards). 

Year on year, despite our combined income we are spending more than we are making. Last year I sat down and did a snapshot of 3 months of incoming and outgoings. When I said we needed to budget (as if I haven't said this before anyway for years) she replied "Go for it". Nothing happened.

Just for a laugh - when we had the last blow 2 nights ago and I again pointed out inconsistencies in her claims about the contact with the snake she looked at me and said - "You have way too much time on your hands". Of course, and if I didn't who knows what I might have found down the line (****, I still might - gulp!)

Once again thank you all I can't tell you how much this has helped with my esteem. Am I able to post directly into your feedback boxes??? Novice here!


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

Horizon said:


> If I lay down the law and tell her she has to get help with the drinking etc etc she'll fight it as she has done for years. I have lost my balls and I need to be able to find them quick and work myself into a situation where I can physically and financially "walk".
> 
> Kids come first of course but I need that backbone. I've got to get a plan - work / fitness / boundaries.


Horizon- you know what you need to do. Write out a list of what needs to be done. It all starts with working out and getting yourself healthy and strong. You are still young and have small kids. If you do what needs to be done here you will exit this crisis in better shape mentally and physically then you enetered it.

Your wife offered you a wake up call. You and only you need to decide if you want to R with her. Take your time to decide. Let her know that you are going to need some time to determine if you want to continue the relationship. Neither of you have any clue the emotional toll this with take on you both for years.

Make this your Alamo (I'm from Texas...) This is your clarion call to turn yourself around.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

walkonmars - much appreciated. 

BobSimmons - beautiful words. You are right and I have to admit that as warlock07 said - I am my own biggest enemy. I have a wonderful relationship with my kids and yes - I have an absolute duty (and the pleasure) to be there as they evolve. I haven't let them down so far just gone off centre personally.

Sitting here I can see how absolutely wrong our relationship has been. I opted for the SAHD role because it was an easy option with my partners ability to bring in a higher income. I had lost my desire to fight and compete even before I was made redundant from a management role ten years ago. 

No wonder she looked me in the eye back in 2006 and said during an argument "I don't respect you" and later said "I'm not attracted to you". Took the words back of course but didn't I just live up to that.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks Slater - I have no excuses now. 

I really can't make any demands on her to stop drinking and spending frivolously. It hasn't worked before and infidelity is not going to be a bargaining chip.

"God, give me grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, Courage to change the things which should be changed, and the Wisdom to distinguish the one from the other."


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Horizon said:


> walkonmars - much appreciated.
> 
> BobSimmons - beautiful words. You are right and I have to admit that as warlock07 said - I am my own biggest enemy. I have a wonderful relationship with my kids and yes - I have an absolute duty (and the pleasure) to be there as they evolve. I haven't let them down so far just gone off centre personally.
> 
> ...


You did live up to that.

ANd know this, it is not too late to change.

Change you!
Change your life!
Change your marriage!

And I guarantee you your wife will respect you in the end. 

But she might want to kill you as you push for these changes.


Never settle Horizon.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

"I don't respect you" and later said "I'm not attracted to you"

What are you going to do about this? Not for her, but for yourself. How did you reach here?


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Horizon said:


> walkonmars - much appreciated.
> 
> BobSimmons - beautiful words. You are right and I have to admit that as warlock07 said - I am my own biggest enemy. I have a wonderful relationship with my kids and yes - I have an absolute duty (and the pleasure) to be there as they evolve. I haven't let them down so far just gone off centre personally.
> 
> ...


You sound responsible about how you handled all of this. I don't think you killed the mindset that allowed her to cheat on you. Usually the cheaters need much stronger repercussions.

I do get a feel that she must have a clue that she's not going to find many men that is going to take on the household and the kids with the level of importance that you do.

It's also fun to carefully take care of your own situation, spouse included.

When they are doing the cheating, they are comparing notes to others, bragging about the number of points the elk they bagged has, etc.

Consider the mindset.

I'd start doing a lot more with her, and also I wouldn't let her be out drinking with single folks, that would put you back full circle.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

After reading what you have neem endiroing the last seven years...
honestly I'd file and put the beatch at in the street like yesterday.
I hate her.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Acabado said:


> After reading what you have neem endiroing the last seven years...
> honestly I'd file and put the beatch at in the street like yesterday.
> I hate her.


Just remember to get your ball back....you don't want your old lady walking around the street still with your balls in her purse.

Just say their easy to forget and even when she is out of the house it can be problematic if she still has them.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

What a horrid person your wife is. Truly despicable.

Start making a plan. Go back to school, get a job. Bide your time if you want, but you will feel better if you make a plan and follow it. You have to start somewhere.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

OK OK - but she didn't steal my balls, I reckon I blindly gave them away. 

I allowed myself to get the SAHD domestic responsibilities done - kids to school, cleaning up and then I'd power nap for 40 minutes. After that either supermarket shopping or lawns or whatever then pick up the kids then prepare tea (dinner for you?). I was delivering as agreed when we swapped roles but slowly she turned off me. I'd fallen into a lazy routine despite what I was doing and even when I picked up casual work.

I didn't help with my behavior. Expecting sex to be available more regularly than it was, taking her for granted. See, we had moved interstate for 12 months and the job she took on turned into a nightmare with the boss from hell. At the end of 12 months they agreed to part company and shipped us back to Sydney. But by then my partner had lost quite a lot of weight and had gone to counseling and was put on anti-depressives. 

7 years later she's still on them but has never changed her drinking habits. She continued with the half bottle of whisky and then she used to smoke 40 a day as well. The smokes have gone 5 years now which is a great credit to her but she can't ditch the bottle.

Stronger repercussions? We are in that zone where we are treading lightly. She's being more affectionate - no sex of course - and I'm playing it cool. Are people here suggesting I go in harder? Put down some ground rules right now eg: get help with your drinking? OK, what else? We've got to survive. As bad as she has been what use is she humiliated & harangued by me?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Horizon said:


> happyman64, warlock07, CJS - thanks - that last post was in direct response to your comments.
> 
> Yes warlock07 - I am my own biggest enemy and have been for a long time. There is a undiagnosed bi-polar / depression history in our family. My father suffered big time. But no excuses now.
> 
> ...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Horizon said:


> Thanks Slater - I have no excuses now.
> 
> I really can't make any demands on her to stop drinking and spending frivolously. It hasn't worked before and infidelity is not going to be a bargaining chip.
> 
> "God, give me grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, Courage to change the things which should be changed, and the Wisdom to distinguish the one from the other."


I thought you were praying for change?

Insanity= doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different out come!!!


I hope you really think about all this business about change.

I hope you also understand that with out consequences bad behavior continues.

I also hope that making demands from anyone is foolish, but putting demands on your self and setting new boundries you get what your need.

You may not get what you want but if you try you may get what you need.....happiness!


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Demand that she get tested for STDs while she is staying with you in the marital home


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

I will do that tonight warlock07. When I asked the snake (who was under massive duress from me) whether they had had unprotected sex he replied yes. When I asked how could you be so stupid he said - get this - "err, um...I didn't have one with me at the time". Anyone in any walk of life can be a bloody fool. His wife wont respond when I text her about that nice little tidbit but I bet she'll do a double take. This is one of the consequences bryanp.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

It is sad that the OM is more truthful than your wife at this point.

One more thing. If your wife wants sex with you, would you agree to it ?


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Initially I thought YES!!!, have only been to visit twice in about 8 months but on consideration...i don't know. There is that carnal urge. Thing is she is not sending those signals. Gee that's a tough one. 

My big question is - despite me waring him off, the unfriending on Fbook and the deletion of contact numbers how much emotional investment has my partner still got in this bloke even though they apparently have not seen each other since late last year. What if they run in to each other again, what if he calls her on her work number or work mobile or, shock horror, my partner called him. Will that switch be flicked? My last opp for anymore info on them, or anyone else!, is to work out her Fbook password.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Horizon said:


> Initially I thought YES!!!, have only been to visit twice in about 8 months but on consideration...i don't know. There is that carnal urge. Thing is she is not sending those signals. Gee that's a tough one.
> 
> My big question is - despite me waring him off, the unfriending on Fbook and the deletion of contact numbers how much emotional investment has my partner still got in this bloke even though they apparently have not seen each other since late last year. What if they run in to each other again, what if he calls her on her work number or work mobile or, shock horror, my partner called him. Will that switch be flicked? My last opp for anymore info on them, or anyone else!, is to work out her Fbook password.





warlock07 said:


> *It is sad that the OM is more truthful than your wife at this point.*
> 
> One more thing. If your wife wants sex with you, would you agree to it ?


Very good point, she is ripe to be taken apart all over again on that alone.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

*Horizon:*


*“You have too much time on your hands.” = You are over-analyzing your role as a cuckold, and whining.* Such utter contempt.

From a sexist POV, just reverse the order, and wind the clock back to the Sixties / Seventies. The general prototype was: Husband works, earns money for family, climbs the career ladder, his wife keeps home, rears children, gets frumpy. He has all the power in the relationship, and he feels entitled to have flings with younger, fitter women, or to get some strange whenever. If she finds out, she can cry and protest, but then, has to settle for his hollow reassurances of her being the primary partner, or being the one ‘he’d always come back to’. Why not? She is the safe bet at home, to look after him when he is sick, and to support him when the chips are down, etc., and the children need her. Eventually, if she sticks around, when he gets older and less adventurous, he might settle for her once again, with lesser and lesser extramarital excursions. Throughout this cycle, the wife is a silent sufferer, but puts up a brave face, and learns to focus only on the good aspects of the marriage and home. And her sole achievement in life ? Being a good home-maker.

*Well, times have changed, and YOU are the wife in this story. You have your role cut out.*

*Don’t like it? Use this discovery / revelation (of her adultery) as a self-enhancement tool. Humiliation is a thousand times more potent instigator than encouragement. Use it.*

Get a job. Get some technical training. Look for a business opportunity. If you pursue and persist, you will most likely succeed. Plus, read more. Get out more. Become a people’s person. Garner some ‘good’ Alpha traits (please shun the bad boy traits). This would also be the best way to eradicate your depression, etc. Nothing works like self-esteem spurred by success (success as defined in view of your specific life situation), to fight depression.

*Whether you eventually reconcile with or divorce your current wife, come out of this as a man no other woman can do this to.*

*Please.* You need to respect yourself way, way much more. Right now.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks carpenoctem. I'm indulging in the feedback. Kick in the ass deserved. Believe me though I want to get there, I'm struggling to find a direction at this stage other than managing the home front.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Unbelievable! guess who's work mobile phone has suddenly vacated the scene. Each evening it would always be sitting on the side table charging. Not anymore - hmmmmm....they really think we are thick don't they?


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## theboywohwouldbething (Apr 9, 2013)

Hi Horizon,
yes i guess they do think we are thick!
But then again our actions usually confirm this!
Get your **** together and respect yourself.
You don't so really why should she.
Get to the point where you feel like you are the prize.
then file for divorce!
Look after yourself for you and your kids and your future wife.
The one you have has checked out, dont let her leave with your B***ocks in her purse.
Read NMMNG - join the forum - its a bit tougher than this one. :smthumbup:

Lots has been said about getting a job etc. Good advice but is not going to happen overnight. Get hold of your nutz and divorce the sl*t. Stop making excuses!


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

She has agreed to get tested. And...i sighted her work mobile, so I screwed up there except then I went to town searching it and accidentally blank texted her boss who replied "What's up?" LOL!!! Guess the penny will drop tomorrow. Too bad, she turned my life upside down

No More Mister Nice Guy eh? She's all tender wanting to help and kissing me and yes, drinking. I'm just playing it straight, definately not overly nice. We're no married but may as well be. 

I'll tell you something I had a good look at some credit card statements and online purchases dating back for the last 3 years. You should see how much she has spent. Extraordinary!


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

theboywohwouldbething said:


> Hi Horizon,
> yes i guess they do think we are thick!
> But then again our actions usually confirm this!
> Get your **** together and respect yourself.
> ...


joined - thanks


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Horizon said:


> You should see how much she has spent. Extraordinary!


How much of that was spent on you? The kids?

Case closed!

Move out, normally, I would say she should go, but you need, NEED! to find your own way in life. At the moment you're sucking hind tit. Until YOU change that little reality, it will be your lot in life. 

Let her find a more expensive nanny, one she'll respect. Continue to see your kids but find a job and make your own way in life.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Dear Horizon,

I'm sorry but, from what you've told us, your life is a total mess. You are with a lying, cheating alcoholic who has no respect for you and for good reason. You have no independent means of support so you and your children are totally dependent on her for your well-being. Why should your WW do anything to fix her marriage? You can give her no reason to because you have nothing to offer her that she couldn't get by hiring a nanny. You can't even seriously threaten to leave her.

What you really need to do is to get a life, one in which you can support yourself, start being a proper male role-model for you children and regain your self-respect. If you do this, you may -- someday -- be in a position to insist that your wayward partner start to get her life in order (which is also a total mess). If you don't, she will eventually dump you because, once she no longer needs a "wife" to help raise her kids, she won't need you.

I hope you sort out your current marital issues but, even if you do, it will only be temporary. Your alcoholic partner _will_ cheat on you again. So please, don't lose sight of the "big picture" which, in your case, is not a pretty one.

Good luck to you.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear Horizon,
> 
> I'm sorry but, from what you've told us, your life is a total mess. You are with a lying, cheating alcoholic who has no respect for you and for good reason. You have no independent means of support so you and your children are totally dependent on her for your well-being. Why should your WW do anything to fix her marriage? You can give her no reason to because you have nothing to offer her that she couldn't get by hiring a nanny. You can't even seriously threaten to leave her.
> 
> ...


Wow carmen ohio, you've rocked me. And that's why I'm here. It is so easy to lose sight of everything and I need the heavy hitters to lay it on the line. 

I've just got back from my first visit to a psychologist. His advice to me in the current state I'm in emotionally was that my Amygdala is flooding me with toxic chemicals and interrupting normal function. Therefore it is essential to counteract these by releasing endorphines - exercise etc.

He recommended I keep playing it cool, as normal as possible and work on myself. This was at the end of a 50 minute meeting. 

You are right I'm a bit of a car wreck. Everything you have said struck home. I have been stupid enough to believe that we would get by on just being under the same roof I suppose,the four of us. I've falsely believed that my role as SAHD was a worthy place. But the reality is that while I have kept up my side of the bargain in parenting our children my partner has lost all respect for me. 

I have no means of self support (home equity borrowing is a last resort) and not for the first time, as I've watched my kids slowly work their way to some type of independence, have I pondered exactly what you have said. She'll have no need for me. I have put myself in this boat and I have got to get out. 

Tell me, do you really think that the relationship is simply not salvageable? Why do you think she will cheat on me again - the same reason she did this time, she has a taste for it now? Is it likely she has done this before? Was the cheating arguably justified then? Sorry to pepper you but your objectivity gives me some reality.


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## Deluded (Apr 9, 2013)

Hi Horizon, so sorry to read this story, you must feel like you're going crazy (believe me I know and I'm there with you) - however I disagree with the others, why do you need to contact the snake, work etc. I won't make it any better. You can only control you and your own feelings. Decide what you want then make it happen.xx


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Deluded said:


> Hi Horizon, so sorry to read this story, you must feel like you're going crazy (believe me I know and I'm there with you) - however I disagree with the others, why do you need to contact the snake, work etc. I won't make it any better. You can only control you and your own feelings. Decide what you want then make it happen.xx


Glad you asked Deluded. I've done all I can re dealing with the snake. I have a detailed confession from him last week, something my partner couldn't do. I contacted his wife via text after she promised to call me back and didn't (for a first call from a stranger it suggests, as someone said, that she condones her husbands activities). I put my point sincerely and said both she and I deserved better - no reply. Yesterday I texted her to confirm that both of us are having STD tests this week and that she should do the same. I'm not going to approach his work, I'll just lose it if I see him. But as they say, he'll keep. It is crazy alright. We are walking around this house like nothing has changed except there is a giant elephant in the room. I reckon carmen ohio has nailed it. My partner will no doubt skip if this dynamic remains when the kids are more independent.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Wow carmen ohio, you've rocked me. And that's why I'm here. It is so easy to lose sight of everything and I need the heavy hitters to lay it on the line.
> 
> I've just got back from my first visit to a psychologist. His advice to me in the current state I'm in emotionally was that my Amygdala is flooding me with toxic chemicals and interrupting normal function. Therefore it is essential to counteract these by releasing endorphines - exercise etc.
> 
> ...


Dear Horizon,

I didn't say that your marriage isn't salvageable, just that it is unlikely to last, especially if you don't put yourself in better place both for yourself and your family. Why will she cheat on you again? Because: (1) it is obvious that you are not satisfying either her emotional or sexual needs; (2) she knows that she can because you have no means of preventing her or making her life uncomfortable if she does; and (3) she is an alcoholic and alcoholics have a reduced capacity to exercise judgment and self-control.

I recently gave another betrayed spouse the following advice which I believe you also need to consider:

+++

Now here are some facts you should have learned from what happened that night and how your wife has behaved since then:

1) You don't have the great marriage you thought you did.

2) Your wife is not the chaste woman you believed her to be.

3) Your wife has very little respect for you.

4) Your wife has shown very little remorse or concern about you.

5) You have trouble dealing with reality (too much blue pill thinking).

And here are some truths about men, woman and marriage that you need to reflect on before deciding what to do:

6) Self-respect is the most important attribute a man can have. Without it, he cannot really be called a "man."

7) Woman are attracted to men who demonstrate self-respect and repelled by men who don't.

8) Having self-respect means knowing what you want, believing that you are entitled to it and not settling for anything less.

9) Marital fidelity is the absolute minimum requirement for a woman to be considered a "good wife."

10) In the "game" of marriage, a man only holds one card -- his willingness and ability to end it if he doesn't get what he wants.

+++

The key point is that a man has nothing to offer a woman unless he is worthy of respect. This requires that the man have accomplishments that woman value. Despite what feminists say, taking care of children and maintaining a household -- as worthy as those things are -- are not things that woman really value in a man. Rather, woman value personal achievement, financial success, independence and self-confidence and sexual prowess. Above all, woman are attracted to men who act like "men" and not like woman.

You have a long road to hoe to get back to a place where you can have a successful marital relationship. Frankly, I doubt that this relationship will survive, given the time it will take to make the necessary changes to your life and because of your partner's personal problems. But you need to start down the road to self-improvement for your own well-being, for your children's sake and so that, some day, you can have a fulfilling relationship with a member of the opposite sex.

Hope this is helpful.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear Horizon,
> 
> I didn't say that your marriage isn't salvageable, just that it is unlikely to last, especially if you don't put yourself in better place both for yourself and your family. Why will she cheat on you again? Because: (1) it is obvious that you are not satisfying either her emotional or sexual needs; (2) she knows that she can because you have no means of preventing her or making her life uncomfortable if she does; and (3) she is an alcoholic and alcoholics have a reduced capacity to exercise judgment and self-control.
> 
> ...


Very helpful - I've scraped along the bottom of the barrel too long. Thanks carmen ohio


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

Horizon, believe me when I say I'm writing this with your best-interest in mind:

I've been to shows where the puppeteer had less control.

You're but a face painted on her hand, bud.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Very helpful - I've scraped along the bottom of the barrel too long. Thanks carmen ohio


Horizon, a few other suggestions.

Consult with a marital attorney to learn what your rights are if your relationship ends. Since you're not married, and given that she is the only income earner, will she have any responsibility to provide for you financially? Also, what rights will you have w/r/t to your children -- would you get custody since you have been the primary care giver and, if not, what is a court likely to order (e.g., shared custody)? Could she remove the children from the country without your permission?

If the answers are in your favor, you'll have a bit more leverage to insist that she makes some changes that will be beneficial to your family (stop cheating, seek help for her drinking, support your efforts to find productive employment). If they're not, at least you'll know what you're up against and can plan accordingly.

Also, deal with your health issues (you said you are diabetic). You can't start to make major changes in your life if you're not as healthy as you can be.

Finally, understand that you're still relatively young can have a happy and fulfilling life if you start to get your act together _now_. You've dug a deep hole for yourself but you can crawl out of it if you really want to. Don't give up. Take it one step at a time and you will eventually get to where you need to be.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

After reading all of this I think the only answer for you would be to play the long game.

I wouldn't worry about OMs W as you have told her. What she does from here out is her choice.

Your partner might as well be your W so treat it the same. Your W has no respect for you, and is clearly not attracted to you anymore. Nature hates a void, and your W was successful at cheating for a long time, so the chances of her cheating again very high.

You're not in a position to kick her out D or leave because you are economically dependent on her. (you may have some legal rights. I recommend talking to a lawyer.)

You have one very obvious strength. You have a ton of time on your hands. Use it. 

You should do the 180 for a little while at least. It will possibly motivate her if she sees you detaching, but more importantly it will allow you to emotionally detach so you can see things with a clearer head.

Cut all sugar out of your diet. Hit the weights and start adding muscle to your body. Get job training in a feild that will pay better than what you were making. 

Don't try to change your W. She is not willing and you are not able to control her. You are not even in a postion to make her want to change. 

You can only control your own actions. Make big changes to yourself. If you make enough change she will be forced to up her game. You will be in a postion to do what you need to. Make the needed changes for yourself and your children. Force your WW to try and catch up to you.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Wow carmen ohio, you've rocked me. And that's why I'm here. It is so easy to lose sight of everything and I need the heavy hitters to lay it on the line.
> 
> I've just got back from my first visit to a psychologist. His advice to me in the current state I'm in emotionally was that my Amygdala is flooding me with toxic chemicals and interrupting normal function. Therefore it is essential to counteract these by releasing endorphines - exercise etc.
> 
> ...


They get a taste for it, plus the low to no repercussions. So they will straighten up for just a bit, and then if caught again if there are no repercussions, they will continue on without caring if there are.

Pretty much the process when dealing with a cheating spouse is there has to be a repercussion, unless they have had a come to jesus moment, where they where happy to be alive. In your case the wife would quit alcohol and realize it has her making compromised decisions that's causing her to hurt ones she loves, she would be totally transparent and willing to prove to you that she's being completely honest. This is a low percentage case that they workout like this.

The repercussion when dealing with a cheating spouse that has the best chance of working is cutting them completely off. Do not provide her verbal, emotional, physical or financial support. Allow the OW/OM to provide it. Usually the OW/OM was there for hot and burden free sex. It was hotter because it's someone elses spouse, it's burden free because the non-cheating spouse will support the spouse financially, emotionally and mentally so their ego is propped to the moon. When you remove the support, your WAS will get to see the reality of the situation. When the OW/OM realize they have to provide for and support your WAS, it's going to be way much more than they signed up for. They are going to have problems.

The WAS may be allowed to return and have counseling after they experience true remorse and acceptance that they really messed up and they really do not want to live like this.

Normally they don't. Normally they jump out into cheaters land and are slick as Teflon, will not accept any accountability, will say and do what you and others needs to hear. It takes years for someone to have enough stuff to pile up on them, for them to want to live mostly honest and clean.


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

carmen ohio said:


> Horizon, a few other suggestions.
> 
> Consult with a marital attorney to learn what your rights are if your relationship ends. Since you're not married, and given that she is the only income earner, will she have any responsibility to provide for you financially? Also, what rights will you have w/r/t to your children -- would you get custody since you have been the primary care giver and, if not, what is a court likely to order (e.g., shared custody)? Could she remove the children from the country without your permission?
> 
> ...


^^^All of this. In addition, *you did not cause her to allow this snake to sh*g her.* For what it's worth, I think you are a great dad. Follow the advice of the 'old hands' here and you come out of this with your self respect, in better health and with kids who admire you. Chances are, your wife will still be a drunk and cheating but that will be her choice.


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## Sussieq (Apr 6, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> Hear, hear! I was coming right to the reply box to say the same thing.
> 
> OP, forget about this notion that men and women are truly equal and women can respect and feel sexual for a guy who spends his life folding panties and scrubbing the family toilets all day. It's a lie - a very dangerous one - and she proved it by going off and screwing a male SENIOR MANAGER. She wants to be the first officer but YOU must be the Captain.
> 
> ...


You got that right! I've never claimed ball-busting feminism. My husband is the King of his castle, the man of the house, I'm the Queen and everything works just fine.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Sussieq said:


> You got that right! I've never claimed ball-busting feminism. My husband is the King of his castle, the man of the house, I'm the Queen and everything works just fine.


I'm surprised this didn't get 9,000,000 likes.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's true that being a SAHD puts you at a decided disadvantage, but the biggest problem here, in my opinion, is the incontrovertible fact that your W is a raging alcoholic, the type of alcoholic who won't make it through her 50's. You can worry all you want about your manhood and attractiveness, but if she keeps up her drinking, it will all be moot. 

So, do all the good things that you can for yourself. By all means, start exercising, eat better, get yourself going on a new career path. But if she keeps drinking the way she has been, you will still have just a husk of a marriage. And it won't last very long.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Louise7 said:


> ^^^All of this. In addition, *you did not cause her to allow this snake to sh*g her.* For what it's worth, I think you are a great dad. Follow the advice of the 'old hands' here and you come out of this with your self respect, in better health and with kids who admire you. Chances are, your wife will still be a drunk and cheating but that will be her choice.


Thanks Louise7, kind words. I appreciate all the comments. We really had it out again last night - a close all the windows no holds barred free for all. But...when i brought up the demon drink topic I was hit with the same comeback she has used for years. The problem is not with her, she's fine, the problem with alcohol is in my head because when I was a kid my siblings and I went through a period where our father would abuse us on Friday evenings after his end of working week drinks. It was a terrible time, random and always frightening. I maintain that this has allowed me the clarity to know when drinking is a problem. Hey, I usually have 1 or 2 drinks a night - sometimes a beer or wine or even a whisky. I'm not anti-drinking just anti-excessive drinking because I know the sh!tstorm it can cause. I mean look around, some of the alcohol probs here in Oz just with our youth - binge drinking violence is out of control. Last night at one point she said "my girlfriends agree with me, what's his problem". I said - "That's because you all drink. For God's sake your on your 6th right now!". More rage about being a grown woman and I don't need you to blah blah blah...to even using her fingers to point out that she really didn't put a lot of the fire water into the soda - give me strength! Right now I'm trying to find a more regular job, none of this casual sh!t. Trouble is as many parents would know, it is a drag trying to fit work into school hours. Best wishes


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Thanks Louise7, kind words. I appreciate all the comments. We really had it out again last night - a close all the windows no holds barred free for all. But...when i brought up the demon drink topic I was hit with the same comeback she has used for years. The problem is not with her, she's fine, the problem with alcohol is in my head because when I was a kid my siblings and I went through a period where our father would abuse us on Friday evenings after his end of working week drinks. It was a terrible time, random and always frightening. I maintain that this has allowed me the clarity to know when drinking is a problem. Hey, I usually have 1 or 2 drinks a night - sometimes a beer or wine or even a whisky. I'm not anti-drinking just anti-excessive drinking because I know the sh!tstorm it can cause. I mean look around, some of the alcohol probs here in Oz just with our youth - binge drinking violence is out of control. Last night at one point she said "my girlfriends agree with me, what's his problem". I said - "That's because you all drink. For God's sake your on your 6th right now!". More rage about being a grown woman and I don't need you to blah blah blah...to even using her fingers to point out that she really didn't put a lot of the fire water into the soda - give me strength! Right now I'm trying to find a more regular job, none of this casual sh!t. Trouble is as many parents would know, it is a drag trying to fit work into school hours. Best wishes


I get entirely what you say about her drinking; you see it from both sides and of course her friends who also abuse alcohol are on her side. 

Before you even get to thinking about a job, you need to be as well as you can be. A little exercise routine is a good start. Your 'job' for the moment should be to walk for fifteen minutes a day, right after you drop the kids at school. Do that 3 times a week and I promise you, by the end of week two, you will feel better. 

As for paid employment, I hear what you say about finding work when you can only do school hours but it is possible. I know because I did it. Start with making a list of all the skills you have. I don't mean just the college/school certificates, I mean all those other things you have experience with and are good at.

I can start the list for you and I don't even know you...
1. Good communicator
2. Practical
3. Excellent time keeping
4. Organised
You can continue that list but don't you think that an employer would value even just those 4 attributes in an employee? I know I would. Part time working isn't going to make you rich but it's a stepping stone to a life after your kids are more independent and you never know where it might lead.

And just incase you need reminding, you did not cause your wife to cheat.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Louise7 said:


> I get entirely what you say about her drinking; you see it from both sides and of course her friends who also abuse alcohol are on her side.
> 
> Before you even get to thinking about a job, you need to be as well as you can be. A little exercise routine is a good start. Your 'job' for the moment should be to walk for fifteen minutes a day, right after you drop the kids at school. Do that 3 times a week and I promise you, by the end of week two, you will feel better.
> 
> ...


Very sweet of you Lousie7 and I mean that sincerely. Practical tips and you made me feel good about myself. At this early stage I'm still a bit taken aback that my partner believes that the cheating was justified. The fact is, it is true that we had tuned out. 

Her position is that she felt like a stranger in her own home, that she wasn't appreciated or wanted and that it went on for years. For that I have expressed some remorse because effectively it is true. There were many days when I could not stand being in the same room as her, my words and body language told the story. 

I do have some guilt about helping to create the environment where she could make such a decision. To be honest as much as I say it was not justified I am still trying to fully process it, that and a hell of a lot of other stuff. 

Thanks to you and the network of TAM contributors I get to hook in here and feel that there is a level of compassion and tough love (if I can put it that way). I'd like to talk again if that's OK - till next time Lousie7


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Her position is that she felt like a stranger in her own home, that she wasn't appreciated or wanted and that it went on for years. For that I have expressed some remorse because effectively it is true. There were many days when I could not stand being in the same room as her, my words and body language told the story.


What a bout you? Did you feel apreciated and wanted?
She blatantly told you she had no respect for you (this was seven years ago!), she showed, still does contempt.

Just now, not in the past, she refuses to get hammered every single day...

As I told you earlier thre's no hope with a full blown alcoholic like her. They they lie, they are not emotionaly aviable, they are perpetual victims, never acountable for their choices, they give excuses for everything. Did I say they lie?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> Her position is that she felt like a stranger in her own home, that she wasn't appreciated or wanted and that it went on for years. For that I have expressed some remorse because effectively it is true. There were many days when I could not stand being in the same room as her, my words and body language told the story.


Could it because she treated you as such and you just reciprocated ? Or do you think you treated her before all this happened ?


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Could it because she treated you as such and you just reciprocated ? Or do you think you treated her before all this happened ?


Chicken or egg? Great question. I think as the candy store became more often closed than open and as the reality about what you both like and don't like became apparent we turned off each other. When the commitment of raising 2 kids takes precedent, when you aren't getting what you want the door is open to find it elsewhere.

She will repeat till the cows come home that I turned away and as I have admitted I did but your implication is closer to the mark. I was also responding to her actions. Always tired, not a day goes by when she is not tired, even this morning "I was exhausted last night". I used to say to her you are exhausted because you have a full day you have 2 kids wanting attention and you drink. To guarantee a good night's sleep she had to be inebriated. When you are in this state sex is the last thing on your mind - or apparently not in more recent times (sarc).

The fact is there are layers of "truth", layers of resentment - minus communication = toxic. She will say that so many times she asked me to lose that 20 plus kilos I'd put on. But as I point out many "truths" were spoken in the heat of argument. The message gets lost when the battle rages - it becomes about winning. Sad I know, but that was the case more than few times.

Right now we are apparently in some type of reconciliation phase. She does not instigate conversation about the cheating but fears the moment when eg: I say I'd like to talk tonight. This is doing her head in - that I might at any time out of left field start with the questions. 

So we are meant to be repairing this busted relationship, doing everything as normal, raising our kids, and I'm trying to keep balanced while I wait for something to happen. "Make it happen" I hear you say. "Make what happen?" I ask. That's the insidious thing. I can't race off to some fort of security, I can only work on myself so much each day while stuff has to be done.

But there is one thing. Just this morning when I said goodbye I looked at her expression and I thought to myself that despite what she said late last week - "the idea of being without you makes me sick", "I will do ANYTHING"...etc. etc. it occurred to me that simply put she doesn't love me. 

You might laugh at this point and think "Hello, wake up!" but in this situation you badly, vainly want to return to what once was, you go through levels of awareness as days pass and you learn more. You look at your partner and you think - OK I want to rebuild but nothing happens. And you are stuck wanting to evacuate the dugout. Hope this makes some sense


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Acabado said:


> What a bout you? Did you feel apreciated and wanted?
> She blatantly told you she had no respect for you (this was seven years ago!), she showed, still does contempt.
> 
> Just now, not in the past, she refuses to get hammered every single day...
> ...


Ironic that this same person is the breadwinner.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Ironic that this same person is the breadwinner.


It's just one of the set of excuses she gives herself.
It's not about it. It could happen anyway if she was the SAHM, she would have simply a different sex of excuses and what I wrote in the quoted post still stands. Actualy happens everyday. Read few threads.
The sh1t thought process is what matters.


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