# He's so angry, do I have a chance in hell?



## Salesbury

I posted my situation in another post. Hubby says he wants a divorce. I texted him a handful of times and nothing major but he just totally flips and tells me this is harassment and he was gonna get a restraining order and block my number. I didn't get nasty w him but he just got so defensive and angry and told me to Eff off and he didn't want me. It's been a lil over a week since he first told me and I'm feeling pretty hopeless
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## Pamvhv

My husband did the same thing. He's having an affair. Look up the 180 and go dark.


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## Salesbury

I didn't wanna hear that!! He doesn't really show signs, there was an incident with my family that he can't get over and he blames them for problems in our marriage. He has gotten like this a few times but not with me. He didn't talk to his family for a month when they forgot to call him on his bday(they're overseas). I just don't know if this is one of those cases or he truly means it
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## lancaster

He sounds rather immature. Why do you want him in your life?


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## Salesbury

A tad, but I guess everyone has flaws. I think he can be a lil mental sometimes, but for the most part he has been really good to me.
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## EleGirl

The only thing you can do now is to stop trying to communicate with him and start moving on with your life.

As I recall you are not living in your marital home. Is that right? 

Who owns it? Did you buy or rent?

You need to get your stuff, all legal and financial papers etc so that you can protect yourself if he does file for divorce.

If he decides down the road that he wants to get back with you, don't do it without him agreeing to 6 months to a year of MC>

His behavior is childish. Yes he has flaws... flaws that are not conducive to making a marriage work.


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## Salesbury

EleGirl said:


> The only thing you can do now is to stop trying to communicate with him and start moving on with your life.
> 
> As I recall you are not living in your marital home. Is that right?
> 
> Who owns it? Did you buy or rent?
> 
> You need to get your stuff, all legal and financial papers etc so that you can protect yourself if he does file for divorce.
> 
> If he decides down the road that he wants to get back with you, don't do it without him agreeing to 6 months to a year of MC>
> 
> His behavior is childish. Yes he has flaws... flaws that are not conducive to making a marriage work.


Correct, I'm staying with my mother. The loan and deed are in his name, which is fine I'll buy my own. Every time I think about packing I have a difficult time and break down, this has all really worn me down. I don't feel strong enough to file papers but he's not running to go do it and I feel like I need him to bc then it's a sure thing you know? I'm having trouble moving on
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## EleGirl

How long have the two of you actually been married?


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## Salesbury

Not even a year! A year in September, together 4 years
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## GusPolinski

I think you need a different perspective. If he can't handle whatever your family has thrown your way after only a year of marriage, how well will he be able to adapt, adjust, or manage when things reeeaaaaally hit the fan?


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## Salesbury

Very true. He has always made very rash decisions, just the way he has been acting towards me has been cruel and we have to interact to exchange our daughter. I'm blindsided by the things he has said and believe them so much that I'm in panic mode I suppose.
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## GusPolinski

OK, I've just read through your other thread and, the first thing that I'd advise is that you stick w/ a single thread, at least w/ respect to soliciting advice from others regarding your current situation. Having multiple threads will serve only to confuse other posters, as well as yourself.



GusPolinski said:


> I think you need a different perspective. If he can't handle whatever your family has thrown your way after only a year of marriage, how well will he be able to adapt, adjust, or manage when things reeeaaaaally hit the fan?


Second, I feel a need to sort of change my tune a bit w/ respect to what I posted ^above. I'd advise that you go back and read, re-read, and then re-re-read the replies that poster VermisciousKnid posted to your other thread, as there would seem to be no shortage of sage advice contained within them.


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## Acorn

I just read the other thread too.

OP, my ex had a huge boundary problem with her family/extended family during our marriage. During dating and engagement, our time was the priority. Suddenly, we get married and her family is staying with us all the time, our vacations revolve around her family's schedule, etc.

I felt like I got scraps of time, I felt she had no boundaries (and thus suddenly I had no boundaries by extension), and it really killed the marriage.

Someone else said that if this is how he acts now, imagine what happens when stuff really hits the fan. That's really great and supportive from your POV, but if you want to know how your hubby probably felt and is feeling, consider that if this is his honeymoon period...ugh.

I'm not sure if he's found an exit strategy or what, but in my opinion if you want any shot at this, you have to step up and prove to him somehow that you have learned how to have some boundaries with regard to your family and you have a plan to make sure he comes first going forward.


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## Salesbury

Thanks Acorn, this has been a real eye opener for me. I was really upset at how he just packed my sisters stuff and threw it out not with her and the kids. I felt really depressed over how it was handled and was a bit distant and he even admitted he shoukd not have lost it like that. I have spent the last week begging and pleading and trying to tell him it could be diff, but he's so angry he won't give me the time of day and just gets angry, says he's done and tells me to eff off. I'm just not sure how to approach it now if he won't talk to me. Just cool it for a bit or what?
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## Acorn

To me, it sounds like it is entirely possible he has found someone else. You can't control that, but you might want to start thinking about whether that's a deal breaker for you if it's true.

If I were you, I'd wait a day or two and then send a simple note telling him that you realize that you in effect spent a year choosing your family over him, and if the marriage is salvageable, you want to work with him to have better boundaries with your family and build the marriage you both hoped for.

I'd let that sit for as long as you are comfortable, and then follow it up with a call to discuss child support for your baby.

Other than that, I'd go dark. The pleading and begging is probably not helping.


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## Salesbury

I haven't seen signs he's seeing someone else yet, he's very angry and mean and at the same time depressed and losing weight too. Him and his ex would fight all the time, like mess up the house fight and he had suspected her of cheating before but when she left a few weeks later he had found out she was seeing someone else and he said if it weren't for that he probably would have tried to reconcile. I'm not going to get my hopes high, I just hope he comes out of his anger and stops blaming my family for all of this and that it can be reconciled with change. I did have a quickie talk and told him how I was wrong with my family and he just started going off. Maybe he needs time to settle down?? It's been a week and a half. Did you initiate your divorce?
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## Acorn

Salesbury said:


> I haven't seen signs he's seeing someone else yet, he's very angry and mean and at the same time depressed and losing weight too. Him and his ex would fight all the time, like mess up the house fight and he had suspected her of cheating before but when she left a few weeks later he had found out she was seeing someone else and he said if it weren't for that he probably would have tried to reconcile. I'm not going to get my hopes high, I just hope he comes out of his anger and stops blaming my family for all of this and that it can be reconciled with change. I did have a quickie talk and told him how I was wrong with my family and he just started going off. Maybe he needs time to settle down?? It's been a week and a half. Did you initiate your divorce?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I admit that I might be projecting a little from my own situation, but try to think of it like this: In the beginning, there was the two of you. Introducing a baby makes things a lot more stressful. Introducing extended family to the home on a semi-permanent basis at a time like makes things chaos.

As a random aside, when baby comes along, sex usually dies down for a while. Not sure how you guys handled that. But he's probably already feeling pretty disconnected from you as it is. Has this been an issue?

When you talk with him, he's going to be irrational no matter what you say. Whether he's found someone else or not, he's definitely in touch with his anger... no use just stirring it up some more.

I'd guess in his POV, you have become part of the problem (by not choosing him over family). Therefore, your goal is to be seen as part of the solution. Stop talking about how things could be if things changed... CHANGE THEM. You can only change you. Write the note, tell him about the boundaries you now have with regard to your family, tell him how you realize you took him for granted. Don't beg or plead, just explain how you've changed and you hope he sees the changes.

To answer your question, I initiated the divorce though it played out over years instead of days like in your case. I felt the hopelessness, which turned to anger, which turned to defeat. I acted irrationally and treated her poorly for a while. Got into counseling, fixed myself, and tried to show her a better me. Nothing worked. (Keep in mind, she never did the soul searching that you are doing now.) But, in any case, if she could have resolved her boundary issues I would have gone back. You can't change other people, you can only change you.

I am also curious how you are handling the child care situation at the moment.


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## Acorn

Oh, and just as an FYI, I think your husband is treating you pretty poorly and I'm not sure that you'd want him back at all any way, I'm just trying to give you my opinion about the best way to try since that's what you asked for. I feel better about typing that out...


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## Salesbury

Sex has always been an issue. He has very low testosterone, doc was even surprised I got pregnant and sometimes he has ED and gets down on himself even though I never made it a big deal, we do try to have it at least once a week, but it's been 3-4 weeks since last bc of his family visiting and work schedules. I'm just trying to figure out how to show change with boundaries and my family? Is there anything your ex could have done with her family to show she changed?? We both work full time and he wants split so we just switch every other day or so, I don't plan on asking for support if it all goes thru.
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## Salesbury

I agree he is, my last relationship last for 7 years and mentally abusive and ended when it got physical. For the most part he has been respectful throught our time together, he has just sort of snapped. My goal was to get him back and hopefully us into counseling. I just can't let to until I feel all avenues have been exhausted or I get served with papers.
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## Acorn

Salesbury said:


> Sex has always been an issue. He has very low testosterone, doc was even surprised I got pregnant and sometimes he has ED and gets down on himself even though I never made it a big deal, we do try to have it at least once a week, but it's been 3-4 weeks since last bc of his family visiting and work schedules. I'm just trying to figure out how to show change with boundaries and my family? Is there anything your ex could have done with her family to show she changed?? We both work full time and he wants split so we just switch every other day or so, I don't plan on asking for support if it all goes thru.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I asked my ex to take a 4 day vacation with me that did not involve visiting or taking along her family. This resulted in a 45 minute discussion which, by the end of it, had killed my desire to take a vacation with her.


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## Salesbury

Wow...I do like my vacations alone, we were actually just looking into taking a nice one to Mexico or something with just is and the baby.
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## Salesbury

I'm so confused. Today he told me how sad he was and how hard this was. I took the baby over and he was crying, talking bout how he might have his mom come over to help him. Never did say he missed me or wanted back but we actually had a normal conversation about work and he even asked if my sisters kids were back but I deterred him from talking about my family before the anger built up. Just not sure what any of this means 
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## Acorn

I wouldn't read too much into one conversation. He sounds a little overwhelmed and perhaps that's a sign he realizes he may have made a mistake - but that's reading way too much into one conversation.

Just keep focusing on you - being healthy, raising your kid, and being authentic. The rest will fall into place in time.


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## Salesbury

Thanks! I'm just so confused. One day telling me to eff off and he's gonna block my number and today telling me how he feels like he's gonna have a meltdown and feels suicidal. It's emotionally draining bc I dunno what to say or how to act. I just told him I was here if he needed anything and I could keep the baby for the weekend.
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## Salesbury

To be highest yesterday was the first time I actually felt ok and somewhat accepting in my mind until he dropped all that on me.
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## jb02157

lancaster said:


> He sounds rather immature. Why do you want him in your life?


Yeah, this guy and my wife should meet, they would love each other taking turns blowing up at each other. She would have times something pissed her off and she wouldn't talk for weeks. Her own brother calls her immature.


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## Acorn

OP, do not get in the trap of reacting to every little thing he does... do not over-analyze, etc.

Look, you may have made some mistakes but he's raised it to a whole new level at this point. He's irrational. Protect yourself from this non-sense. Make a plan on how to make your life better, whether it's with or without him. If you do that, it's win/win no matter what happens.


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## Salesbury

You're exactly right. He's the one that wanted this but seems to be having a harder time with it.
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## Salesbury

He told me I could come over today to hang out today if I wanted so I did. His mom called while I was there and after he got off the phone he asked me what would change if we got back together? I told him we needed to work on communication and I needed to work on boundaries with family. I also mentioned MC. He agrees with the MC but still says he's thinking about things and hasn't made a decision yet but he didn't want to walk away without trying everything there was to try. He also said he would have to fall in love with me all over again. He then also said that he was unstable and unsettled and that today he thinks it may be worth a shot and tomorrow he may think differently. Such an effing roller coaster I swear. Still moving on with me and baby as priority. I'm not gonna beg, cry or kiss his ass.
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## Evinrude58

I'm experiencing the roller coaster too. And it is NO fun. I don't know what to do other than do whatever it takes to get your mind free of it an hour or to a day to get some clarity. You can't nice em back! That's for sure. 
I wish you luck.


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## EleGirl

Salesbury said:


> He told me I could come over today to hang out today if I wanted so I did. His mom called while I was there and after he got off the phone he asked me what would change if we got back together? I told him we needed to work on communication and I needed to work on boundaries with family. I also mentioned MC. He agrees with the MC but still says he's thinking about things and hasn't made a decision yet but he didn't want to walk away without trying everything there was to try. He also said he would have to fall in love with me all over again. He then also said that he was unstable and unsettled and that today he thinks it may be worth a shot and tomorrow he may think differently. Such an effing roller coaster I swear. Still moving on with me and baby as priority. I'm not gonna beg, cry or kiss his ass.


Does he have a history of emotional problems, depression, or anything like that? He does not sound stable.


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## Salesbury

Yeah he has had a history. Past issues with both parents and brother committed suicide when he was 15. Funny thing is his mom was a therapist but I think she went loopy after the death and drinks a bit. He agreed to MC if he decides he wants to reconcile and hoping the counselor will bring up individual counseling for both of us, which I already plan on doing myself regardless. He has been on anti depression/anxiety meds since the death of his brother. He also has very low testosterone and was just put on some testosterone patches for that so possibly hormones outta wack too? It's obvious he covers up his emotions with anger but it never lasts and he ends up having emotional meltdowns. It's been hard to deal with, esp with a crying baby but since he can't keep it together and take care of her I have to.
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## EleGirl

So you married a guy who cannot handle stress in life. Then you are surprised when he cannot handle it? :scratchhead:

If you stay with him you will have an uphill battle dealing with him throwing this type of fit.


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## Pepper123

I agree that he sounds incredibly unstable...his irrational behavior is highly unfair and not normal at all. I hope the IC he goes to is a psychiatrist....


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## Salesbury

Yes, very irrational and unfair. Not always the case, he only gets like this once or twice a year but it usually had to do with his family, this time it's me. One day he's thinking about working things out, the next he puts a stop on it. I'm slowly detaching bc I'm just so drained and tired of being dragged thru the mud.
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## turnera

Sounds like you'd both benefit from staying apart for now and each attending IC. Then maybe get MC after a few months of IC. Tell him that.


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## Evinrude58

Just wanted to say how much I admire you for trying to save your marriage in spite of all the setbacks and difficulty. I don't know if your husband is a good man, but maybe he is worth the effort. Nobody is perfect, and everyone has weaknesses. Maybe you should just be strong and stop trying so hard. 
I went to a counselor today. Here's her advice for me; maybe it will benefit us both. She thinks that there is still hope for us based on my wife's actions: going to counseling, seeing me and communicating with me regularly, and talking with her. She says she has a closed spirit toward me, but that she doesn't think it's totally closed toward me based on this. She says that I need to work on the 5 love languages with her: service, gifts, quality time, words, and touch. Says the touch thing is out for now. The service, gifts, and quality time were what I should work on. That I had to do it with no hope of her reciprocating them and that it the things I told her I was already doing were registering in her mind because of the responses she had to them, even if they were negative right now. To just keep trying. 
That if I did these things without putting pressure on her or talking at all about reconciling, that I could help open her heart to me again. That I had to choose my words carefully---absolutely no criticism at this time. She thought I definitely should not break off all contact because the online men would win her for sure then. 
I asked her to lunch later this week and she said yes. 
The counselor said that when people change, they move toward extremes and that what she was doing was not going to last- that it couldn't last and that eventually she would move back somewhere in the middle of where she is now. Maybe it's the same with your husband.
She also said that I didn't need to just submit to everything that she wanted on that extreme on my part. That I needed to lead her back to me by being a strong person. That the begging and pleading didn't look good to any woman. 
I'm going to try to do some little things to make her think of me in a good way, take her on dates and just have a good time, and do things that help her on a day to day basis. No talking about the online screwing and nude pics she's sending that makes me want to crawl in a hole, or mention how she's neglecting her children. Just try to win back her heart. I don't know if it's possible, but imp not going away without doing everything possible.
I hope it works out for you, and that you are happy no matter how things turn out. You deserve it.
Jbj


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## Salesbury

Thanks! I've been trying the 180's focusing on myself, less contact, no begging. I thought abut it for awhile and it's all how I pretty much landed him in the first place, he didn't want a relationship so I said ok lets just be friends. I let him contact me, hung out with other male friends and pretty much acted like I didn't give a **** about a relationship and when he went to visit family in Ireland w hardly any contact w me he called me drunk one night telling me how he missed me and couldn't wait to get back and that was that. He has always been very stubborn with feelings. We both need our space, it's just hard when I've only been in CO for two years and don't have too many friends, just spend a lot of time with my daughter but it sometimes hurts to look at her knowing it's possible I won't be able to give her the family I didn't have. 

What sort of gifts did she recommend? We just started talking over the weekend after being yelled at for two weeks and he won't go out with me anywhere right now so all I can do is give some space and let him think about what he has done lol.
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## Salesbury

Also wondering if she said anything to you about the dating?
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## Evinrude58

She did--- I already knew it was a bad idea. She said I needed to pray for the strength to be a man about it basically. I'm having second thoughts about all the womanizing I've been doing to try to get her off my mind. I had a date lined up for dinner on Thursday, and an overnight one on Friday. Thinking I may have to hold off on them. I've been wrestling it all week. Then again, it sure is hard to do the right thing when she's sending pics and sects to men. Makes me feel like a total loser to sit and pine away for her. But I know that I'm a better person than this, and I should be able to give her a few months at least. I sent her a message about how I regretted not going to see her sing in church and how I used to love watching her sing with her parents in church when we were dating. I got back a smiley. Just going to do a few little things like that for a while and see if I can compete with her fantasy men. I know her-- surely I have an edge.


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## Salesbury

Your a better person than I bc I would def be dating if my husband was bc it does take some pain away. It's funny bc people in relationships wonder about being single but singles long to be in relationships. In your case I do think she will get her attention and once one of those guys hurts her feelings she'll be back around and see that the grass isn't greener.
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## Evinrude58

Just don't know if I'm gonna want the cow that's eaten grass from everyone else's pasture! We talked this evening a few minutes ago and she sounded really pleased for me to date her again. I just feel like I may be her date one night, and she may be with someone else another. I'm not that strong either. I still haven't decided not to go on those dates, but I'm not telling her about it. I can be sneaky too......


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## Salesbury

My husband and I already said once someone sleeps with another it's a done deal. Go out and have fun  obviously it does sound like you are one of the many. I just feel like it's a slap in the face. I just think it should be one or the other. Either you wanna separate and date other men or separate and date your husband, not both. Perhaps the tables will be turned one day where she's begging for you and you'll just feel so disrespected and disgusted by the person she became that you won't want her. This site has been a big help to me as well. Feels good to talk to ppl that are going thru the same thing.
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## Salesbury

How do ppl deal with the ups and downs?? I try to get dragged into but one day I'm good and the next he says something to feel the emotions all over again
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## Evinrude58

I talk to my best friend's mother and get on here. 
My wife told me today she was looking for a house, wanted to date other men and " choose me". 
Sounds like a load of "I'll choose you after I've f'd half of the county and none of them are rich or want to take care of me like you do". I told her that she should go ahead, that I would give up on her and she could go ----- herself. I'm going to have to accept the fact that she doesn't want me anymore. I will move on, going to do some heavy movin on this weekend I suspect. 2 can play this game.


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## Salesbury

I'm just tired of the BS. I'm close to telling him to take off a day next week and we'll both go file. I just can't go thru this anymore
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## Salesbury

After he mentioned thinking about getting back together we texted and he was friendly for a few days and then said no it wasn't going to work and I hardly heard from him for a few days. He had complained about his back in a text, I offered to come over and rub it and he flipped saying no bc he wasn't going to fall into my trap of me being nice and him falling for it and getting back together with me. 

I went over tonight to drop baby off and he was talking about his shoulder, I asked again about rubbing, he said no but 20 min later changed his mind. I gave him a nice shoulder, neck and back rub and he fell asleep. Trying to not look into it too much but this thing with him being open and them closed is driving me insane!
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## turnera

He doesn't want you to get the wrong idea. He figures if he's nice, you'll expect to get back together. If you make it clear you're not expecting anything and don't even want anything at this point either (this could take months), he may be more open.


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## Salesbury

Yeah and perhaps that's why he was being nicer yesterday. I didn't text him all day till he asked me about our daughter. He picked up from sitter and I told him if be free after 7, (went to salon but he thought I went to happy hour or something)if he needed me to pick up our daughter or anything. I checked in a lil before 7 to see how things were and he told me I could come over if I wanted so I did, put our daughter down, gave him a rub and left. Trying not to text him today.
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## Evinrude58

Salisbury. I think you're doing the right thing. Whatever happens with him has to kind of come naturally. I think the back rub thing is pretty awesome. And then leaving. Show him that you're doing it because you want to and not looking for anything in return. If there is nobody else involved, and you make him feel good every time he's around you, he will have no choice but to start liking you again. I just don't get completely what it is that's so bad about you lol. 
I got into a teachers workshop that my wife is in this week and the next week. We sit together. She texted me Thursday that she wanted me to know that she was thinking"what am I doing-- I need to ditch my phone and come home. Then immediately after said but she needed to think about it and mull it over. We've eaten lunch together and rode together from her moms two days. She invited me over Thursday night. She's coming over tonight to spend the night and bring our kids and her sisters kids for a movie and I'm cooking. Has been talking about getting US a house where she wants to live about 30 miles away near her parents. I'm thinking a little like paying and child rearing on her own will be an eye opener. I'm super good with kids and she loves to have me around for dad help. So give it a little time and maybe he will come around. The fact that he's crying and confused tells me that he still has feelings for you. You just have to make yourself be fun for him to be around. Back rubs, supper, texting him funny crap from time to time ( non-pressuring stuff). Maybe even a sexy pic? Did you ever send him sexy pics or such in the past? If not it might not be a good idea because he might get the idea that you're manipulating him. Just some non-pressure stuff to make him associate you with good thoughts instead of the bad ones he seems to remember. I just haven't figured out what they are based on your posts. You seem pretty normal and ok to be with. Lol
Good luck,


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## Salesbury

I tried to send you a PM but it wouldn't go thru bc I like talking to you and I was wondering if you went on any dates or anything. I believe he's just so focused on anger towards the family situation that he can't move forward. I used to be a naughty girl back in the day but when I settle down I settle down, I've sent him pics a handful of times while we've been together but at this point I feel so rejected by him and he goes from angry to sad that I'm afraid he'll get angry or won't saying anything if I send him something and I'll just feel even worse about myself. We are just barely on speaking terms and that's only some days. We're not close to sex/sexy pics. I'm just glad I suppose that he even let me near him and touch him and believe me I wanted it to turn into something else but he fell asleep lol. He texted me asking things about baby this morning and I responded. I wanna text him to see how it's going bc last weekend he couldn't stop crying and was so depressed I had to keep her all weekend. I'm trying to patiently wait and hope he responds. Everyone has flaws but all in all I'm a good person. I still have guys I've dated reach out to me bc I'm just that awesome but it's never realized until it's too late. Just hoping my husband won't be one of those but I'm lonely and craving a lot of attention right now so I don't know how much longer he'll get
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## Uptown

Salesbury said:


> Yeah he has had a history. Past issues with both parents and brother committed suicide when he was 15.


Salesbury, if your H is emotionally unstable, his issues likely would have started showing themselves during your 3 years together prior to the wedding. Typically, they would start about six months into the relationship, at which point his infatuation would start to evaporate. I therefore ask what unusual behaviors, other than his taking an anti-depressant, you saw during that 3-year period? And how old is he?


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## Salesbury

Usually emotionally he would get sad or depressed. Missing his family in Ireland, thinking about the brother that committed suicide. The anger part like I mentioned before would be like his family forgetting to call him on his birthday and he felt forgotten about in general and didn't speak to any of them for a month and would bad mouth them all the time, really hurt but it came out as anger.
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## Pepper123

In my experience, persons that have issues with anger are usually emotionally under-deveoped. Also, anger is a secondary emotion... so it follows the primary feeling.


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## Uptown

Salesbury said:


> Usually emotionally he would get sad or depressed. Missing his family in Ireland, thinking about the brother that committed suicide. The anger part like I mentioned before would be like his family forgetting to call him on his birthday and he felt forgotten about in general and didn't speak to any of them for a month and would bad mouth them all the time, really hurt but it came out as anger.


Salesbury, it is the _anger part_, the _lack of impulse control_, and the_ instability_ -- not the depression -- that I find most concerning. I therefore suggest you take a look at my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of BPD warning signs in Maybe's Thread. 

Significantly, I am not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD. Only a professional can make such a determination. Yet, your H may be exhibiting moderate to strong traits of it. If so, it could explain why he has difficulty controlling his emotions, is so thin-skinned to minor comments, and frequently exhibits black-white thinking (i.e., flipping quickly to all-out hatred of your family and, for a month, his own family too). It also could explain his suicidal thoughts. Moreover, because it is believed to be passed from one generation to the other, it might also explain his brother's suicide (if the brother actually had it). 

If your H really does have strong BPD traits, you should also be seeing two strong fears: abandonment and enfulfment. Importantly, these two fears lie at opposite ends of the _very same_ spectrum. This means that, as you draw near to him to calm his fears of abandonment, you eventually will start triggering his fears of being engulfed by your strong personality. That is, he would start feeling suffocated by you and, in his mind, would misinterpret this feeling as your effort to control him. The result would be a repeated cycle of push-you-away (by creating arguments over nothing) and pull-you-back.


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## Salesbury

Thank you for the insight! Lately BPD has crossed my mind. He hasn't yet pulled me back in, this is the worst it has ever been and the first time I really felt it was over. I'm trying to give him space but don't really know how to deal with it. Funny thing is his mom was a therapist but after her son passed she was drinking a lot, actually still does and is kinda nutty to me, actually makes me feel anxious when I'm around her. I'm just trying to get him back and get him and us both into therapy. I'm gonna read those links now. Thanks again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

Evinrude58 said:


> Salisbury. I think you're doing the right thing. Whatever happens with him has to kind of come naturally.* I think the back rub thing is pretty awesome. And then leaving. Show him that you're doing it because you want to and not looking for anything in return. If there is nobody else involved, and you make him feel good every time he's around you, he will have no choice but to start liking you again. * I just don't get completely what it is that's so bad about you lol.
> I got into a teachers workshop that my wife is in this week and the next week. We sit together. She texted me Thursday that she wanted me to know that she was thinking"what am I doing-- I need to ditch my phone and come home. Then immediately after said but she needed to think about it and mull it over. We've eaten lunch together and rode together from her moms two days. She invited me over Thursday night. She's coming over tonight to spend the night and bring our kids and her sisters kids for a movie and I'm cooking. Has been talking about getting US a house where she wants to live about 30 miles away near her parents. I'm thinking a little like paying and child rearing on her own will be an eye opener. I'm super good with kids and she loves to have me around for dad help. So give it a little time and maybe he will come around. The fact that he's crying and confused tells me that he still has feelings for you. * You just have to make yourself be fun for him to be around. Back rubs, supper, texting him funny crap from time to time ( non-pressuring stuff). Maybe even a sexy pic? *Did you ever send him sexy pics or such in the past? If not it might not be a good idea because he might get the idea that you're manipulating him. Just some non-pressure stuff to make him associate you with good thoughts instead of the bad ones he seems to remember. I just haven't figured out what they are based on your posts. You seem pretty normal and ok to be with. Lol
> Good luck,


Um, this is NOT TRUE and DOES NOT WORK. Dont kid yourself Ev. When someone does the things that your wife has done/is doing, you dont kiss their ass. You 180 them, go dark, because for one thing, they need to see that you know you can do just fine without them. This kissing ass and groveling only makes you look weak and pathetic in their eyes. Another reason you go dark is FOR YOU. For you to get yourself in order, and to gain some self respect, confidence, and self reliance. Sorry to be so blunt, but this is the total opposite advice that Salesbury needs. Giving him space is the right thing if she actually wants any chance.


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## turnera

Salesbury said:


> Thank you for the insight! Lately BPD has crossed my mind. He hasn't yet pulled me back in, this is the worst it has ever been and the first time I really felt it was over. I'm trying to give him space but don't really know how to deal with it. Funny thing is his mom was a therapist but after her son passed she was drinking a lot, actually still does and is kinda nutty to me, actually makes me feel anxious when I'm around her. I'm just trying to get him back and get him and us both into therapy. I'm gonna read those links now.


Do you watch Major Crimes? On it, this teenage boy whose mom abandoned him for drugs, he's had a horrible life, this police captain took him in and has been raising him. Well, his real mom showed up and was in rehab and was manipulating him big time to get him to enable her; at first, he went along with it because he loved his mom and all he wanted was for her to just love him, you know? Well, she tries to get him to fill a prescription for her (forged, for medicine to get her high). He refuses. And this sweet motherly woman who he wants so desperately just to love him, turns into the REAL monster she is, and starts spewing out all sorts of hateful venom - at her SON! He realizes he doesn't mean anything to her, no matter how badly he wants it to be true. Then, of course, that night she's out of rehab, all strung out, homeless, and calls him to ask him to come get her, all sweet again. The police captain watches as he takes the call, allowing him to do whatever he needs to do. It was very tense; you just KNOW he is going to crumble again and do what she wants. 

But he doesn't. He holds firm, this 17 year old boy, as much as it's killing him to do it, he tells his mom no, he won't come get her. And hangs up on her. Gut-wrenching. He knows she'll never get better if he 'helps' her now. She has to do it on her own, she has to suffer and stop being enabled.

I know it's just a show, but if he can do it, you can, ok? Do what's right and avoid him. For both of you.


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## Salesbury

Update: there was so much drama with all of this and it's still ongoing. He was suicidal at a point and checked into the hospital. They diagnosed him with PTSD from when his brother committed suicide. They changed his meds and he has been off work since to try and adjust. His mother came out to keep an eye on him. He asked me to come back. It's still a roller coaster but he has started showing me affection and has apologized and has thanked me for sticking around and dealing with him. He is working on himself first bc he still cries at times and still adjusting to meds. After it all settles down we will work on us. It's all still very difficult to deal with but slowly improving.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Salesbury

I also really appreciate everyone's responses and support!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Salesbury said:


> He was suicidal
> he has been off work since to try and adjust
> His mother came out
> He asked me to come back
> he has started showing me affection and has apologized and has thanked me
> After it all settles down we will work on us.


*sigh*

Well, it's your life. 

Just don't be surprised when you come back in 6 months because he's conveniently forgotten that he owes you anything and you're getting the same crap - because you didn't hold out and show him that you deserved to be treated with respect. You had a chance and instead you jumped on the "I'm his rescuer so I'm important" bandwagon.

I'm sorry to be so harsh. But you could have helped him WITHOUT MOVING BACK. But that wouldn't have given you the "feel good", would it? You're choosing short-term feel good instead of long-term hard work toward a better goal. And you'll continue to get the same result.

btw, I notice you didn't say anything about him getting THERAPY.


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## Why Not Be Happy?

Counseling for him and you. Can't hurt.


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## Salesbury

He was hospitalized for a few days for his mental issues and they decided on outpatient treatment. He is actually mentally sick, it is an illness and it has been debilitating for him. He, I and the doc agreed the less stress the better. So we agreed on me moving back in to help with the house, dogs and baby. I was gone for two months, he is making baby steps but we are still separated bc he needs to get his head straight. I stay in the downstairs while he stays upstairs. 

He is getting outpatient treatment, meds and has an appt w the therapist. I am still his wife, I meant my vows and will stick by him until this settles down before a true decision on us is made. Also after he gets the help he needs, we will get the help we need should we decide to stay together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honcho

Salesbury said:


> He was hospitalized for a few days for his mental issues and they decided on outpatient treatment. He is actually mentally sick, it is an illness and it has been debilitating for him. He, I and the doc agreed the less stress the better. So we agreed on me moving back in to help with the house, dogs and baby. I was gone for two months, he is making baby steps but we are still separated bc he needs to get his head straight. I stay in the downstairs while he stays upstairs.
> 
> He is getting outpatient treatment, meds and has an appt w the therapist. I am still his wife, I meant my vows and will stick by him until this settles down before a true decision on us is made. Also after he gets the help he needs, we will get the help we need should we decide to stay together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im not faulting your decision to help him but I find it quite surprising that a doc would want you to move back in with him and have a baby at the home. He is mentally ill and needs to get himself the care he needs. Really it makes it seem like your a security blanket/caretaker than his wife.

It can take years of work and therapy before he is better and it just seems you have made yourself a prisoner to his condition. What happens in a few months if you need to separate again because he isn't improving? 

Like I said I am not trying to be critical but somewhere along the line your wants/needs have to be address and he needs to learn to stand on his own two feet more than just having you around to reduce stress.


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