# Gut feeling and observations



## In Disbelief

Hello all, long time browser first time poster. Unfortunately I've had to join the form because I have a strong suspicion that my wife maybe having an affair on me.

The story starts about a year ago when my wife accepted a new job with a new company. As part of the on boarding process she was paired with a male coworker to learn a specific job function. Part of this new job involved working very closely with this man on a very intense and time-consuming project.

My wife and this man became fast friends, And as it turns out he was unhappily married with a child. This man's wife turned out to be incredibly jealous and extremely Suspicious that her husband and my wife were having an affair.

At the time I found this to be incredibly hilarious because my wife and I have been best friends for the last 20 years and she is the most loyal person I have ever met.

Eventually through coaxing from my wife this coworker ended up filing for divorce from his wife because quite frankly she was crazy. After their separation began, her work moved to a new building. During this transition for about three months, her department was ordered to work from home. It is during this time that the time-intensive project was underway. 

It was not unusual for the two of them working from our home to be up in till two or 3 o'clock in the morning. This somewhat annoyed me, because I would be asleep in the next room. I tried to be as understanding as possible, with my wife staying up until all hours of the morning with another man while I slept.

I was not really suspicious of anything until one night, she was legitimately visiting some friends of ours and I went to bed prior to her arriving home. I woke up at around 1:30 AM to discover that she wasn't here. I freaked out a bit thinking something might be wrong, but intuition told me she was at the other man's house. I texted her asking if she was ok, and she confirmed that she was where I thought she was, stating that she didn't want to wake me. There was apparently some emergency with work and she stopped by his place (which is close to our friend's) to assist. I was livid to the point of shaking, but I said nothing.

Over the next few weeks and months, I started to notice some changes in her behavior. For one, she never used to take her phone to the bathroom with her, however now this a regular thing. I noticed that she always has her phone by her side, but when she's at his house (either working or dropping him off since they carpool) there is a significant delay in her answering my texts.

Other behavior changes include obvious increase in care for appearance (my wife never used to wear makeup or if she did, hardly any at all) and perhaps most disturbing of all, changes in how she shaves her pubic hair. This used to be something that she only did immediately before us having sex (almost always on the weekend) but now she does this on the days where she is driving, meaning she has extended time alone with him in the evenings.

All of these things increased my suspicion, and of course I have managed to glean some information from her directly without outright accusing her of anything. One night when we were both drunk, she told me that he pays a lot of attention and compliments to her, and that she's having her cake and eating it too, so to speak. Additionally, she informs me that he has told her that he loves her, and she does her best to shut him down.

We have had our problems; the romance wore off, my job caused me to be unhappy, I started drinking more than I should, and I generally stopped treating her like an attractive woman to whom I'm married, and more like a roommate. 

Sex became formulaic (every three months on a Sunday) and I constantly felt rejected. For a couple of months after all this started, we were having sex twice or more a week which usually was preceded with copious alcohol ingestion on both parts. This soon stopped however, and it is back to status quo. We talked about or issues, identified them, and seemed to be working on them, but her behavior hasn't really changed.

They text each other good night and good morning every single day (which I expressed my displeasure with and it stopped, for a while). Looking at the phone bill, they text more than 2,000 times a month. This got me curious, so I started digging. She deletes their text convos every day. She emails him pictures of her outfits (this has been going on for months) and selfies (which she never used to take) seemingly for validation. On days she drives, they leave the office earlier than would be reasonably expected based on her schedule and go straight to his house, where they spend anywhere from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours. She doesn't tell me she's leaving and of course doesn't answer my texts while she's there.

I know I haven't been perfect, but damn, this seems like a mountain of circumstantial evidence. I'm almost to the point of buying a VAR and using teen safe or some such to justify a downright accusation. I feel sick.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> Hello all, long time browser first time poster. Unfortunately I've had to join the form because I have a strong suspicion that my wife maybe having an affair on me.
> 
> The story starts about a year ago when my wife accepted a new job with a new company. As part of the on boarding process she was paired with a male coworker to learn a specific job function. Part of this new job involved working very closely with this man on a very intense and time-consuming project.
> 
> My wife and this man became fast friends, And as it turns out he was unhappily married with a child. This man's wife turned out to be incredibly jealous and extremely Suspicious that her husband and my wife were having an affair.
> 
> At the time I found this to be incredibly hilarious because my wife and I have been best friends for the last 20 years and she is the most loyal person I have ever met.
> 
> Eventually through coaxing from my wife this coworker ended up filing for divorce from his wife because quite frankly she was crazy. After their separation began, her work moved to a new building. During this transition for about three months, her department was ordered to work from home. It is during this time that the time-intensive project was underway.
> 
> It was not unusual for the two of them working from our home to be up in till two or 3 o'clock in the morning. This somewhat annoyed me, because I would be asleep in the next room. I tried to be as understanding as possible, with my wife staying up until all hours of the morning with another man while I slept.
> 
> I was not really suspicious of anything until one night, she was legitimately visiting some friends of ours and I went to bed prior to her arriving home. I woke up at around 1:30 AM to discover that she wasn't here. I freaked out a bit thinking something might be wrong, but intuition told me she was at the other man's house. I texted her asking if she was ok, and she confirmed that she was where I thought she was, stating that she didn't want to wake me. There was apparently some emergency with work and she stopped by his place (which is close to our friend's) to assist. I was livid to the point of shaking, but I said nothing.
> 
> Over the next few weeks and months, I started to notice some changes in her behavior. For one, she never used to take her phone to the bathroom with her, however now this a regular thing. I noticed that she always has her phone by her side, but when she's at his house (either working or dropping him off since they carpool) there is a significant delay in her answering my texts.
> 
> Other behavior changes include obvious increase in care for appearance (my wife never used to wear makeup or if she did, hardly any at all) and perhaps most disturbing of all, changes in how she shaves her pubic hair. This used to be something that she only did immediately before us having sex (almost always on the weekend) but now she does this on the days where she is driving, meaning she has extended time alone with him in the evenings.
> 
> All of these things increased my suspicion, and of course I have managed to glean some information from her directly without outright accusing her of anything. One night when we were both drunk, she told me that he pays a lot of attention and compliments to her, and that she's having her cake and eating it too, so to speak. Additionally, she informs me that he has told her that he loves her, and she does her best to shut him down.
> 
> We have had our problems; the romance wore off, my job caused me to be unhappy, I started drinking more than I should, and I generally stopped treating her like an attractive woman to whom I'm married, and more like a roommate.
> 
> Sex became formulaic (every three months on a Sunday) and I constantly felt rejected. For a couple of months after all this started, we were having sex twice or more a week which usually was preceded with copious alcohol ingestion on both parts. This soon stopped however, and it is back to status quo. We talked about or issues, identified them, and seemed to be working on them, but her behavior hasn't really changed.
> 
> They text each other good night and good morning every single day (which I expressed my displeasure with and it stopped, for a while). Looking at the phone bill, they text more than 2,000 times a month. This got me curious, so I started digging. She deletes their text convos every day. She emails him pictures of her outfits (this has been going on for months) and selfies (which she never used to take) seemingly for validation. On days she drives, they leave the office earlier than would be reasonably expected based on her schedule and go straight to his house, where they spend anywhere from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours. She doesn't tell me she's leaving and of course doesn't answer my texts while she's there.
> 
> I know I haven't been perfect, but damn, this seems like a mountain of circumstantial evidence. I'm almost to the point of buying a VAR and using teen safe or some such to justify a downright accusation. I feel sick.


Hmm. I'd start with a couple of VARs.

Also, you mentioned that you were thinking of using TeenSafe... does your wife use an iPhone?

What kind of vehicle does your wife drive?

Is she still working from home regularly? Do you work from home at all?


----------



## alte Dame

Unfortunately for you, his ex wasn't crazy after all. And your WW helped him get his divorce so he could be free for her...

You have been understanding in the face of very obvious red flags of an affair. The shaving? Come on!

She is definitely in a PA with him - I doubt that, given what you have told us that a single other person will come on here and say otherwise. If you want a shot at all at breaking it up, you need to start investigating. Read and follow the advice on weightlifter's evidence thread. (I will find the link and post it below.)

Otherwise, I think you are in an inexorable marital decline toward divorce. I'm very sorry. You unfortunately were far too nice and let this go way too far.


----------



## kristin2349

Sorry you found yourself here. Have you read the Standard Evidence thread? 

It is full of great advice, start there. You certainly have enough red flags along with your gut feeling to warrant further investigation.


----------



## alte Dame

Here it is. You need to get started gathering hard evidence so you can make some decisions for your life:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


----------



## Lon

Those are glaring red flags, your gut is working the way its supposed to. You are justified in getting some evidence of her activities. Seek legal counsel and find out if your state is no-fault or not and also what the legal ramifications of spying on her are. Get the VAR, read the evidence gathering threads on here and do not confront her until you have hard evidence that proves to you what the extent of her infidelity may be. Once you know from using your own fact finding, then bust up the affair, hope her fog clears enough to have a rational conversation, and either way then decide if you want to even try re-establishing any trust with this person at all.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Hope I'm wrong... this felt trollish to me.


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> Hmm. I'd start with a couple of VARs.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you mentioned that you were thinking of using TeenSafe... does your wife use an iPhone?
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of vehicle does your wife drive?
> 
> 
> 
> Is she still working from home regularly? Do you work from home at all?



Yes, she uses an iPhone.

As for the vehicle, it's a late model Honda. She doesn't work from home much these days. I however often do since starting a new position within my company.


----------



## In Disbelief

Blossom Leigh said:


> Hope I'm wrong... this felt trollish to me.



I wish it were, but unfortunately for me it's not.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

In Disbelief said:


> I wish it were, but unfortunately for me it's not.






I hate that for you. Your story was so "neat" and concise and buttoned up, that I was like... this doesn't feel like a wrecked emotional BS. 


You don't have to be buttoned up here.


Better to let it out...


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> Yes, she uses an iPhone.
> 
> As for the vehicle, it's a late model Honda. She doesn't work from home much these days. I however often do since starting a new position within my company.


Which model of iPhone does she use? Do you know the version of iOS that's currently running on it?

What kind of phone do _you_ use?

Do you currently have...

...her Apple iTunes/iCloud account information (i.e. e-mail address and password associated w/ account)?

...the password for the e-mail account associated w/ her Apple account?

Also, does she use any other Apple devices (iPod, iPad, Mac mini, iMac, MacBook, etc)?


----------



## Forest

If they are not already, the OM is surely laying the groundwork.


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> Which model of iPhone does she use? Do you know the version of iOS that's currently running on it?
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of phone do _you_ use?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you currently have...
> 
> 
> 
> ...her Apple iTunes/iCloud account information (i.e. e-mail address and password associated w/ account)?
> 
> 
> 
> ...the password for the e-mail account associated w/ her Apple account?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, does she use any other Apple devices (iPod, iPad, Mac mini, iMac, MacBook, etc)?



She currently uses a 5s running iOS 8 along with a first gen iPad Air. I have a 6 and access to the above info


----------



## In Disbelief

Forest said:


> If they are not already, the OM is surely laying the groundwork.



I have no doubt, as I know she tells him about the arguments that we have. He's probably taken good notes to do the things that I don't and to avoid the things that I shouldn't have done.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

In Disbelief said:


> I know I haven't been perfect, but damn, this seems like a mountain of circumstantial evidence. I'm almost to the point of buying a VAR and using teen safe or some such to justify a downright accusation. I feel sick.


Sorry to say but very likely they quite an affair going on. Their contact is so prolific, it should be easy for you to confirm it. Velcro a VAR under her car seat and in a few days you will have your answer.

*DO NOT confront her without proof.* Right now she think you are totally snowed and she is do whatever. Get suspicious and she goes underground with it. 

Do you catch your wife in lies?


----------



## Melvynman

What do you want?... divorce? spy on your wife? her to have a affair? catch her in lie? What is it your looking for here?... Justification for spying on your wife or support to file for divorce? What do you really want? Tell your wife your suspicions and then work through your problems, how about that?


----------



## badmemory

In Disbelief said:


> but damn, this seems like a *mountain of circumstantial evidence.* I'm *almost* to the point of buying a VAR and using teen safe or some such to justify a downright accusation. I feel sick.


Friend, that is the Mount Everest of circumstantial evidence. I lost count of the number of red flags, but it's double digits. Almost to the point of using a VAR? Really? What else could you be waiting for?

It's very, very, likely she is having a PA. And unfortunately, your lack of insisting on reasonable marital boundaries has contributed to her easy access. Once you found out he told her he loved her; that should have been it. You should have insisted she quit that job or find a new husband.

At this point however, you might as well find that smoking gun before you confront. My experience tells me that if you follow the monitoring advice here, you'll catch her in less than two weeks.

Good luck.


----------



## In Disbelief

Melvynman said:


> What do you want?... divorce? spy on your wife? her to have a affair? catch her in lie? What is it your looking for here?... Justification for spying on your wife or support to file for divorce? What do you really want? Tell your wife your suspicions and then work through your problems, how about that?



Quite honestly, I don't know what I want. This is someone who I've been best friends with for more than half my life. I can't picture my life without her right now. The first thing I needed was to get this off my chest. My suspicion and anxiety keeps me awake at night.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> She currently uses a 5s running iOS 8 along with a first gen iPad Air. I have a 6 and access to the above info


OK. The first thing that you should know is that, if you do _anything_ w/ her iTunes/iCloud account, she'll receive AT LEAST an e-mail notification letting her know that her account has been accessed. IOW, BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, verify that you have the e-mail address associated w/ her Apple account AND that you know the password for the e-mail account itself. I say this because you're going to want to intercept and delete these alert notification e-mails. (In fact, you'll want to configure a filter or rule that will automatically delete them for you.)

Examples of activities that will trigger such an alert include...

* Configuring a TeenSafe account to access her iOS device backups
* Logging into find her location via either icloud.com or the "Find My iPhone" iOS app
* Running data recovery tools against either her iPhone or iPad *OR* the iCloud backups for either device

In fact, just about the only thing that you can do w/o triggering a notification or alert is look up her location using the "Find My Friends" iOS app/functionality. For that to work, by the way, you'll have to "friend" each other via the app.

Do you have the lock code for her phone? It's a 5S... has it been configured to use fingerprint scanning for device access?


----------



## GusPolinski

Melvynman said:


> What do you want?... divorce? spy on your wife? her to have a affair? catch her in lie? What is it your looking for here?... Justification for spying on your wife or support to file for divorce? What do you really want? *Tell your wife your suspicions and then work through your problems, how about that?*


Yes. Because adulterers _always_ confess to their affairs when confronted. They never, Ever, EVER lie about it, and they certainly never take their affairs underground.

Right...?!?





#guspo6k


----------



## badmemory

Don't even hesitate to discretely monitor her. You have every reason to do so. Had this been earlier in her progression of red flags, talking through this and insisting on reasonable boundaries may have been an option. But now, IMHO, it's better for you to have concrete evidence that she can't explain away.

Then you need to decide now, if a PA is your point of no return. If it is, that's just one more compelling reason to monitor. Even if it's not, you need to know what you're trying to forgive if you consider R.


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> OK. The first thing that you should know is that, if you do _anything_ w/ her iTunes/iCloud account, she'll receive AT LEAST an e-mail notification letting her know that her account has been accessed. IOW, BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, verify that you have the e-mail address associated w/ her Apple account AND that you know the password for the e-mail account itself. I say this because you're going to want to intercept and delete these alert notification e-mails. (In fact, you'll want to configure a filter or rule that will automatically delete them for you.)
> 
> 
> 
> Examples of activities that will trigger such an alert include...
> 
> 
> 
> * Configuring a TeenSafe account to access her iOS device backups
> 
> * Logging into find her location via either icloud.com or the "Find My iPhone" iOS app
> 
> * Running data recovery tools against either her iPhone or iPad *OR* the iCloud backups for either device
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, just about the only thing that you can do w/o triggering a notification or alert is look up her location using the "Find My Friends" iOS app/functionality. For that to work, by the way, you'll have to "friend" each other via the app.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have the lock code for her phone? It's a 5S... has it been configured to use fingerprint scanning for device access?



I do have the lock code, and no it isn't set up for fingerprint ID.


----------



## melw74

I think you already know whats going on. The pubic hair part especially as her being your wife you know she does this only when shes going to have sex. Being at his house, Hiding her phone, I think its all here plain to see. Now you have to see if you can find proof to see if its definitely going on.


----------



## dash74

Holy Sh*t I hope it's your imagination


----------



## In Disbelief

dash74 said:


> Holy Sh*t I hope it's your imagination



Yeah. The hard part is trying to act normal at the moment.


----------



## 3putt

Just how do you know all this about his 'crazy' wife and their divorce proceedings anyway?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

In Disbelief said:


> Yeah. The hard part is trying to act normal at the moment.



Know that feeling well....


----------



## In Disbelief

3putt said:


> Just how do you know all this about his 'crazy' wife and their divorce proceedings anyway?



Through both first and second-hand experience. I have zero doubt regarding her being certifiable.


----------



## 3putt

In Disbelief said:


> Through both first and second-hand experience. I have zero doubt regarding her being certifiable.


Okay, fair enough, but do you also have zero doubts as to the divorce being filed? Just saying that WS's have been known to lie (and often) about these things to try and head off tipping the other BS off.


----------



## TRy

In Disbelief said:


> This man's wife turned out to be incredibly jealous and extremely Suspicious that her husband and my wife were having an affair.





In Disbelief said:


> Eventually through coaxing from my wife this coworker ended up filing for divorce from his wife because quite frankly she was crazy.


 The other man’s wife was incredibly right to be jealous of your wife. You wife coaxing him to divorce her means that her relationship with this other man crossed the marital lines of what is appropriate for both the other man’s marriage and for yours.



In Disbelief said:


> she informs me that he has told her that he loves her, and she does her best to shut him down.


 The minute that another man tells your wife that he loves her is the minute that all contact with this other man must end. She must go full no contact with this other man by either asking to work with someone else or by changing jobs. Certainly she no longer car-pool and stay at his house alone with him in the middle of the night.



In Disbelief said:


> For one, she never used to take her phone to the bathroom with her, however now this a regular thing. I noticed that she always has her phone by her side, but when she's at his house (either working or dropping him off since they carpool) there is a significant delay in her answering my texts.





In Disbelief said:


> They text each other good night and good morning every single day (which I expressed my displeasure with and it stopped, for a while). Looking at the phone bill, they text more than 2,000 times a month. This got me curious, so I started digging. She deletes their text convos every day. She emails him pictures of her outfits (this has been going on for months) and selfies


 Him telling her that he loves her, 2,000 texts a month, pictures of her outfits, selfies, deleting their texts, means that even if they have not had sex yet, they are in a full on emotional affair (EA). Her being in an EA with this other man is cheating, and that is even if you give her the benefit of the doubt about sex.



In Disbelief said:


> Sex became formulaic (every three months on a Sunday) and I constantly felt rejected.


 In studies, you are considered in a sexless marriage if you have sex 10 or fewer times a year. Sex every three months on a Sunday, is on 4 times a year. You are therefore in a sexless marriage. I am not sure that I would give her the benefit of the doubt on not have sex with her emotional affair partner, especially since she to spend time with him alone at his house so often.

You know right now that she is at least in an EA. That is enough that be able to demand an end to their relationship. You need to demand the following with no backing down: 1) Full no contact outside of the office, and only limited contact while in the office until she either transfers from working with him, or changes jobs. 2) Full transparency, which includes full access to phone, computers, passwords, and no deleting of texts or other communications such as voice mails. Just so you know. Even at 2,000 texts a month, a whole year of texts would take up less space than one iTunes song. So do not let her say that she is doing it to save space; she is doing it to hide what they are saying to each other, including the I love you texts. 3) A commitment that she spend the time that she was spending with her emotional affair partner with you on building the marriage; this includes cuddling and date nights having fun together.

At this point it may be too late. Given the choice she may pick her job and the other man, but the longer that you wait to cut it off, the worse are your odds that she will pick saving her marriage. Time is not on your side. You must be firm, and you must be willing to end the marriage on the spot in order to have a chance at really saving the marriage. Do not give her time to decide. Do not let her talk to the other man in order to help her decide, remember how she helped him decide. If she cannot pick her marriage right now without advice from her emotional affair partner, you must tell her that you will be proceeding with divorce. I am sorry that you are here.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> Through both first and second-hand experience. I have zero doubt regarding her being certifiable.


FWIW, a cheating spouse is enough to drive anyone crazy.


----------



## MarriedDude

Acting normal while you decide exactly what you are going to do is critical. Gather evidence, if that is route you are going to take. Other than that -put a smile on your face and go about your day to day life as if nothing is amiss. 

This will give you what you need most. Time to decide. Once the drama portion starts -you will end up reacting to things...this is the calm before the storm where you get to plan your actions.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

GusPolinski said:


> FWIW, a cheating spouse is enough to drive anyone crazy.




Ain't that the dang truth...


----------



## 3putt

Wait, this man told your wife that he loves her??? How the hell did I read past that?

I know what the hell I would do if I were you. Go and get in this POS's face, and on the job if necessary.


----------



## In Disbelief

3putt said:


> Okay, fair enough, but do you also have zero doubts as to the divorce being filed? Just saying that WS's have been known to lie (and often) about these things to try and head off tipping the other BS off.



I know it has been filed. He is in process of changing council and his wife/ex-wife and kid haven't lived there in months. From what I understand, the big hang up is asset division and legal fee payment prior to finalization.


----------



## In Disbelief

TRy said:


> The minute that another man tells your wife that he loves her is the minute that all contact with this other man must end. She must go full no contact with this other man by either asking to work with someone else or by changing jobs. Certainly she no longer car-pool and stay at his house alone with him in the middle of the night.
> 
> In full disclosure here, as long as I've known her, she's had this problem with people falling in love with her. She has two friends she's had for years that would drop their marriage and kids in a heartbeat for her. In both cases, the feeling is not mutual, and she equates the current situation to these two guys.
> 
> 
> Him telling her that he loves her, 2,000 texts a month, pictures of her outfits, selfies, deleting their texts, means that even if they have not had sex yet, they are in a full on emotional affair (EA). Her being in an EA with this other man is cheating, and that is even if you give her the benefit of the doubt about sex.
> 
> I have had this suspicion for some time; only recently have I begun to consider it might be more than an AE.


----------



## MattMatt

> Eventually through coaxing from my wife this coworker ended up filing for divorce from his wife


This is just utterly wrong on so many levels. 

She and he are taking the urine out of you, mate.

Their employer needs to know, ASAP.


----------



## In Disbelief

MattMatt said:


> This is just utterly wrong on so many levels.
> 
> She and he are taking the urine out of you, mate.
> 
> Their employer needs to know, ASAP.



The employer knows. From what I understand, there we rumors but nothing was substantiated and it was attributed to the large amount of time they spent together working on a project. Also, his ex came to the office on more than one occasion and made a scene.


----------



## In Disbelief

Ultimately, I feel I have nothing to go on without those texts. Those are the key to either exonerate or incriminate.

In the meantime, I'll work on procuring a VAR.


----------



## MattMatt

In Disbelief said:


> The employer knows. From what I understand, there we rumors but nothing was substantiated and it was attributed to the large amount of time they spent together working on a project. Also, his ex came to the office on more than one occasion and made a scene.


Why did his wife make a scene, do you think? :scratchhead:

*Because... DUH!!! he was a cheating POS/SOB!*

Your wife was just the latest notch in his adulterous bedpost!


----------



## Chaparral

From reading thousands of threads here, the chances they are having and affair is over 95%. I should say 100%. Even the fact that your sex life increased for awhile is a huge indicator. She was either really getting turned on by him just before it went physical or she was trying to hide her affair by making it look like she was still really into you.


Everything you posted is classic. The one thing you didn't mention is that she has started picking at you and treating you badly.

Do you have kids?

Give absolutely no indication you are concerned. Get the var for her car and one for the house. It should take less than two days I'm betting.

Concerning his divorce. I'm betting your wife is waiting for his divorce to go through to drop a bombshell on you. As a matter of fact, I'll bet she has already talked to an attorney. Can you check her phone records on line to see what numbers she's called. Check her browsers to see what she's been googling?

Is she still telling you things about what he says to her?

Ask her if he's dating anyone!


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, why has your sex life been so bad? Is this because of you or her? Does she simply refuse sex with you?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Melvynman said:


> What do you want?... divorce? spy on your wife? her to have a affair? catch her in lie? What is it your looking for here?... Justification for spying on your wife or support to file for divorce? What do you really want? Tell your wife your suspicions and then work through your problems, how about that?


You mean like this?


> We talked about or issues, identified them, and seemed to be working on them, but her behavior hasn't really changed.


----------



## In Disbelief

Chaparral said:


> From reading thousands of threads here, the chances they are having and affair is over 95%. I should say 100%. Even the fact that your sex life increased for awhile is a huge indicator. She was either really getting turned on by him just before it went physical or she was trying to hide her affair by making it look like she was still really into you.
> 
> 
> Everything you posted is classic. The one thing you didn't mention is that she has started picking at you and treating you badly.
> 
> Do you have kids?
> 
> Give absolutely no indication you are concerned. Get the var for her car and one for the house. It should take less than two days I'm betting.
> 
> Concerning his divorce. I'm betting your wife is waiting for his divorce to go through to drop a bombshell on you. As a matter of fact, I'll bet she has already talked to an attorney. Can you check her phone records on line to see what numbers she's called. Check her browsers to see what she's been googling?
> 
> Is she still telling you things about what he says to her?
> 
> Ask her if he's dating anyone!




We do not have kids. Lack of sex is often due to a medical condition she has which negatively affects her sex drive and causes her to have erratic periods, often with pain during intercourse. This comes and goes. She is sometimes open about their convos, which according to her are mostly about work.


----------



## kristin2349

Have you considered using recovery software on her iPhone? 

Wondershare Dr.Fone works pretty well, google it and see if it might be of use to you.
@GusPolinski might have some other tech suggestions on this.


----------



## TRy

In Disbelief said:


> Ultimately, I feel I have nothing to go on without those texts. Those are the key to either exonerate or incriminate.


 You have enough to go on to know that it is at least a full on emotional affair, which is cheating in and of itself. You now only need to know if it is also a physical affair (PA). Regardless of if is is an EA, or a EA+PA, after you have taken a few days investigating it, you must fully demand an end of their relationship.


----------



## Roselyn

Your wife is having an affair for some time. Woman here. I am a professional career woman. When a woman leaves at 3:00 a.m. in the morning to make an excuse to see a colleague, they are not working! Yeah, working on having intercourse. Wake up!!!

The wife of the OW is not crazy. She saw what was happening. Your cheating wife has told you stories so that you will let your guard down and won't be suspicious of her. We women can see when our husband is interested in another woman. You can see by the way your husband acts around that woman. I shed all "friends" who my husband shows any type of interest. I am not a jealous woman, but I safeguard my marriage. My marriage has survived 35 years. You need to pay attention to what your spouse is doing. You cannot let temptations get within reach.

Your wife will only have sex with you to appease you. She is using all types of excuses, including a medical one to get out of being intimate with you. She is being loyal to her lover. Confront her and stop dancing around. Tell her that her work colleagues are noting her relationship with her work partner. The truth will jolt her! Embarassment in the workplace is not a pleasant place to be.

You'll need to see a marriage counselor if you want to save this marriage. You also need to see a psychologist to work on your self-esteem. It seems that your wife has the upper hand in your life. You need to elevate your worth.


----------



## the guy

Sorry man but with the lack of boundaries that weren't established early on, any attempt to set soem now are useless.

Your best bet is catch them screwing around be it VAR, text, or PI.

At this point the only change she submit to is the fact that you have in fact proved infidelity and confronted her with the smoking gun.

You let so much go by since this all start she will explain it all away like she has been.

Again sorry you will need a smoking gun for this one!

If you want you can always just file for divorce...but then it will eat you alive thinking you made the wrong choice cuz you will have a hard time believing the unbelievable.

So again you are now at a point were getting the smoking gun is the option......You should had a talk a long time ago and now that time has passed get your proof.

The next step after that is up to her...she will either dumb the guy or not....but lets first get to that point were she has to face reality and can no longer deny.

Hell lets get to the point were *you* can no longer deny......

Been here to long to know how it playes out with regard to the smoking gun...as far as the confrontation stage..it's anyone guess.

Some waywards drop the affair partner quiet the job and spend a few years rebuilding the marriage

Some betrayed lose their spouse to the affair partner and spent a few years rebuilding their money.

Any way first things first lets get your old lady to the point were it's a fact that she phucking around then the both of you can move to step two.


----------



## the guy

Get the dam VAR!

Hire a PI!


----------



## the guy

btw.....I went through years of this crap called infidelity.

Hell when she went out with "friends" it gave me a chance to go out and do what I wanted.

At least you had enough of this "work" crap to take action now.

Seriously my old lady did this shyt for years before I faced the obvious!

Don't feel bad we trust them cuz we love them and they screw us over.

So please trust me when I tell you take care of this shyt now....before she moves on to her 2nd OM...or in my case OM#21!!!


----------



## GusPolinski

kristin2349 said:


> Have you considered using recovery software on her iPhone?
> 
> Wondershare Dr.Fone works pretty well, google it and see if it might be of use to you.
> 
> @GusPolinski might have some other tech suggestions on this.


iPhone Backup Extractor (get the Pro version) is pretty sweet. Seriously... it gets EVERYTHING. And, while parsing through it all can be somewhat daunting, the website's blog offers quite a bit of guidance.


----------



## Thound

the guy said:


> Get the dam VAR!
> 
> Hire a PI!


I agree. Try the VAR before messing with her phone. I got busted trying to add a program to my wife's phone, but I'm just an analog man living in the digital world.


----------



## 3putt

Thound said:


> I agree. Try the VAR before messing with her phone. I got busted trying to add a program to my wife's phone, *but I'm just an analog man living in the digital world.*


Now some of us know how our parents felt way back when, huh?


----------



## sapientia

Roselyn said:


> I am a professional career woman. When a woman leaves at 3:00 a.m. in the morning to make an excuse to see a colleague, they are not working!


Seconded^. Unless travelling and headed for an early morning flight (and it would have to be an odd one to be up that early), I would never start work this early. Roselyn has called this.


----------



## TRy

In Disbelief said:


> I know it has been filed. He is in process of changing council and his wife/ex-wife and kid haven't lived there in months. From what I understand, the big hang up is asset division and legal fee payment prior to finalization.


 Now that you know that the other man's wife was right and not crazy about what was going on between your wife and her husband, you need to talk to her ASAP to find out what she knows that you do not know. Perhaps she already has proof that it went physical. Contact her without telling your wife or anyone else.


----------



## In Disbelief

sapientia said:


> Seconded^. Unless travelling and headed for an early morning flight (and it would have to be an odd one to be up that early), I would never start work this early. Roselyn has called this.



To be fair, it was at 1:30 when I woke up. She came home immediately but nonetheless, not acceptable behavior.


----------



## jsmart

Chaparral said:


> From reading thousands of threads here, the chances they are having and affair is over 95%. I should say 100%. Even the fact that your sex life increased for awhile is a huge indicator. She was either really getting turned on by him just before it went physical or she was trying to hide her affair by making it look like she was still really into you.
> 
> 
> Everything you posted is classic. The one thing you didn't mention is that she has started picking at you and treating you badly.
> 
> Do you have kids?
> 
> Give absolutely no indication you are concerned. Get the var for her car and one for the house. It should take less than two days I'm betting.
> 
> Concerning his divorce. *I'm betting your wife is waiting for his divorce to go through to drop a bombshell on you. As a matter of fact, I'll bet she has already talked to an attorney. * Can you check her phone records on line to see what numbers she's called. Check her browsers to see what she's been googling?
> 
> Is she still telling you things about what he says to her?
> 
> Ask her if he's dating anyone!


I was thinking the same thing. She is laying the ground work. This may not be salvageable. If OP confronts with an ultimatum, she will just pick POSOM. The time to confront WW has past.


----------



## jsmart

TRy said:


> Now that you know that the other man's wife was right and not crazy about what was going on between your wife and her husband, you need to talk to her ASAP to find out what she knows that you do not know. Perhaps she already has proof that it went physical. Contact her without telling your wife or anyone else.



She could have the proof OP needs. Not that I think it's going to work. His WW is checked out. When the sex stops, the WW is being loyal to her man. She finds being intimate with her husband revolting.


----------



## Sports Fan

Unfortunately you rug swept issues like the amount of time they were spending together and other little red flags. The proof is in the pudding as you said "Of concern is that she has started shaving her private area before she drives out to him. She only ever did this before we had sex" Enough said. You should of shut this down when you found out about him confessing his love to her.

It really does sound like a full blown affair is underway. Buy 2 VARS one strapped under her car seat and the other in a part of the house you think she would most likely talk on the phone.

Buy yourself WebWatcher for Iphone. Works really well and as long as you know her Apple ID she will be none the wiser as there is no jail break of the phone required. Should have you results within the week.

Sorry you are going through this


----------



## In Disbelief

jsmart said:


> I was thinking the same thing. She is laying the ground work. This may not be salvageable. If OP confronts with an ultimatum, she will just pick POSOM. The time to confront WW has past.



She's the type that would choose the option I'd find least preferable simply because I gave an ultimatum, regardless of the situation.


----------



## MattMatt

In Disbelief, my wife was convinced I was having an affair.

But I was convinced I wasn't. After all, it was all just friendliness, right?

Of course it was. Right up until the time I realised I was getting ready to have unprotected PIV sex with my "friend", which ripped the affair fog from my mind in mere seconds.

I didn't have sex with her, but it was a close thing.

His ex-wife was possibly like my wife, able to spot the danger signs from very early on.


----------



## jsmart

In Disbelief said:


> To be fair, it was at 1:30 when I woke up. She came home immediately but nonetheless, not acceptable behavior.


Come on, she finished servicing him. 

Years of reading the depravity of the typical WW when they're in the middle of an affair on Loveshack has taught me that a WW will go to great lengths to please her OM. Risking their kids' family life doesn't phase them. And they will perform acts OM that a husband has been turned down for years for.


----------



## In Disbelief

MattMatt said:


> In Disbelief, my wife was convinced I was having an affair.
> 
> But I was convinced I wasn't. After all, it was all just friendliness, right?
> 
> Of course it was. Right up until the time I realised I was getting ready to have unprotected PIV sex with my "friend", which ripped the affair fog from my mind in mere seconds.
> 
> I didn't have sex with her, but it was a close thing.
> 
> His ex-wife was possibly like my wife, able to spot the danger signs from very early on.



Every fiber of my being wants to believe this is the case based on what I know. The problem is what I don't know.


----------



## Ripper

Physical affair, no doubt in my mind.

Sorry brother, regardless of what your life has been like, this will make the list of worst things you will ever go through.

VAR in the car will be simple enough. Or, giving how blatant they are with this, you could just go find them on one of these late nights out. Depending on your level of self-control this may not be advisable.


----------



## Nucking Futs

You might also try one of these.

Amazon.com: CheckMate Infidelity Tests; detect Semen Test Kit; at home use (10 tests/box): Health & Personal Care


----------



## drifting on

In Disbelief

Sorry to see you here, but this is a great place to get help and advice. I'm sure your gut is screaming as mine did, but you have no concrete proof. You probably feel as though you are losing your mind, thoughts racing, and confused on which way to turn. You have gotten good advice from the posters here. I can only advise to put a var in her car, and listen to Gus Polinski to recover the texts. Take a deep breath and calm down, you need to think clearly about your actions. 

Prepare for a long haul, prepare for trickle truth, and find a trusted friend. You will need this friend more then you know, don't go through this alone. Almost all workplace affairs cause me to trigger and I feel for the position you are in, it sucks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScrambledEggs

badmemory said:


> It's very, very, likely she is having a PA. And unfortunately, your lack of insisting on reasonable marital boundaries has contributed to her easy access. Once you found out he told her he loved her; that should have been it. You should have insisted she quit that job or find a new husband.
> .



Truth, though OP, the affair is not your fault. Setting boundaries early on around the marriage might have brought this forward sooner, and you would be past it now whatever the result, and it might have prevented it from getting as far as it did as long as it did. Frankly you probably should seek IC to work on these boundary setting behavior if it does not come naturally to you. Even if it is for a future relationship without your current wife.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

In Disbelief said:


> We do not have kids. Lack of sex is often due to a medical condition she has which negatively affects her sex drive and causes her to have erratic periods, often with pain during intercourse. This comes and goes. She is sometimes open about their convos, which according to her are mostly about work.


You would be surprised at the number of "conditions" an affair seems to cure. Pari-menopause, low libido, ect...


----------



## Doyle

You have had fantastic advice on many levels.

But it's down to you now.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

In Disbelief said:


> She's the type that would choose the option I'd find least preferable simply because I gave an ultimatum, regardless of the situation.


So she is more into her own pride than your marriage? Nice.

How important is your self respect to you?


----------



## convert

GusPolinski said:


> iPhone Backup Extractor (get the Pro version) is pretty sweet. Seriously... it gets EVERYTHING. And, while parsing through it all can be somewhat daunting, the website's blog offers quite a bit of guidance.


good advice.

if the the time to do this is limited because she does not leave the phone alone for long, remember people loose their phones all the time.

Soooo..:wink2: if she looses her phone and you happen to find it take it off site (maybe to your work) this gives you all the time in the world to recover what is needed.


----------



## In Disbelief

convert said:


> good advice.
> 
> 
> 
> if the the time to do this is limited because she does not leave the phone alone for long, remember people loose their phones all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo..:wink2: if she looses her phone and you happen to find it take it off site (maybe to your work) this gives you all the time in the world to recover what is needed.



There's a technical issue here. She does not back up her phone to the computer often due to having switched to a new hard drive and iTunes settings being jacked up. That issue is fixed now however. Furthermore, I believe she deletes the texts prior to the scheduled iCloud backup, so I'm not sure how that impacts things but could make it difficult.


----------



## cgiles

The fact you have a huge lack of boundaries, make me advice you to read "no more mr nice guy" by robert glover.

It will help you to place boundaries and to stand for them. 
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

I advice you to get "The married man sex life primer 2011" and to start to go to gym, to improve your look : new haircut, new clothes, ect 
Give a look to this post : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ng-real-hard-time-dealing-32.html#post9648594

Why to do that ? 
Simply to improve your pride, selfestem, selfrespect, then to be more attractive. 

Once you will find out you can be happy by yourself, you will reach a state where you don't need anymore to be with her, but simply be with her because you want to be with her, instead of needing it.

And if she begin to be suspicious about you, questionning in a defensive way why you do that, it will add grist to your mill.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> There's a technical issue here. She does not back up her phone to the computer often due to having switched to a new hard drive and iTunes settings being jacked up. That issue is fixed now however. Furthermore, I believe she deletes the texts prior to the scheduled iCloud backup, so I'm not sure how that impacts things but could make it difficult.


Preparing a detailed reply to this...


----------



## happyman64

In Disbelief

Get the var. Put it in her car and hide it well. 

Also listen to Gus.

You will have a large part of the truth in a few days.

Do not say a thing to your wife.

Let her keep thinking she is smarter than you.

HM


----------



## drifting on

In Disbelief

As previously mentioned I believe you were being tested by your wife with OM's comment of I love you. You not stopping them working together was disrespect in your wife's eyes, and she now probably feels as if she has your permission. It's my personal opinion that this is an exit affair and you need to know what you want, reconciliation or divorce. This will help posters with advising you further. 

Something else to keep in mind is that her employer knows, but that spouse was crazy. Or was she? OMW was most likely portrayed to be crazy with the help of OM and your wife. If you happen to recover the texts you can give them to your wife's employer. This I would only do if you want to reconcile. Let us know what you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## In Disbelief

drifting on said:


> In Disbelief
> 
> 
> 
> As previously mentioned I believe you were being tested by your wife with OM's comment of I love you. You not stopping them working together was disrespect in your wife's eyes, and she now probably feels as if she has your permission. It's my personal opinion that this is an exit affair and you need to know what you want, reconciliation or divorce. This will help posters with advising you further.
> 
> 
> 
> Something else to keep in mind is that her employer knows, but that spouse was crazy. Or was she? OMW was most likely portrayed to be crazy with the help of OM and your wife. If you happen to recover the texts you can give them to your wife's employer. This I would only do if you want to reconcile. Let us know what you want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



In all honesty, sitting here not knowing the whole truth, I could probably get over an EA, but I'm not sure about a PA. Hard to say without knowing exactly what's going on.


----------



## Chaparral

You can get Sony model vars and lithium batteries at bestbuy, Walmart, and office supply stores. Get heavy duty Velcro and find a good place to put it under the front seat or dash. Test in your car first.

Does she ever leave her phone where you could pick it up and see a message coming in?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

drifting on said:


> In Disbelief
> 
> As previously mentioned I believe you were being tested by your wife with OM's comment of I love you.* You not stopping them working together was disrespect in your wife's eyes, and she now probably feels as if she has your permission*. It's my personal opinion that this is an exit affair and you need to know what you want, reconciliation or divorce. This will help posters with advising you further.
> 
> Something else to keep in mind is that her employer knows, but that spouse was crazy. Or was she? OMW was most likely portrayed to be crazy with the help of OM and your wife. If you happen to recover the texts you can give them to your wife's employer. This I would only do if you want to reconcile. Let us know what you want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My ex always laughed it off when his friends hit on me, but in my heart it translated to me feeling that he didn't care about me. I felt alone in the battle to keep his friends at bay. This situation is a bit different, but there is that element to consider that it can come across that way.


----------



## oliamble

Hello I'm new here. I just signed up today. I'm also married and experienced a similar situation with my current wife whole had a friendship affair with a guy from another country/state and I found out about it. She now doesn't leave her phone anywhere near me. She even almost takes a bath with her phone. 

I'm my view your wife had already cheated. I know it is hard to hold off on the rage of wanting to know the truth, but first maker her think like you don't know anything and install a monitoring software on her phone while she falls asleep. Provided you know her password or pin or how long she leaves her phone active before it goes into lock mode. 

Keep us posted.


----------



## bandit.45

In Disbelief said:


> In all honesty, sitting here not knowing the whole truth, I could probably get over an EA, but I'm not sure about a PA. Hard to say without knowing exactly what's going on.


In Disbelief, here is the deal...

A wife who loves you and respects you would not be putting you through this torment. 

A wife who loves you and respects you would not be staying out with another man until 1:30 a.m. causing you heartache and panic. 

A wife who loves you and respects you would not be sh!t testing you. 

Is this the kind of woman you want to spend the rest of your life with? I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than have to accept a partner who would behave the way she has. 

Just something for you to chew on....


----------



## drifting on

Blossom Leigh said:


> My ex always laughed it off when his friends hit on me, but in my heart it translated to me feeling that he didn't care about me. I felt alone in the battle to keep his friends at bay. This situation is a bit different, but there is that element to consider that it can come across that way.



My WW admitted after d-day she felt as though I didn't fight for her enough. My reply was I didn't know I had been brought into a war and every time I talked to her she lied. I was in the same boat as OP and didn't have proof. Now that I'm jaded and anyone comes here and says their spouse looked at someone, I say they cheated. Just another little bit of infidelity joy you get to feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

drifting on said:


> My WW admitted after d-day she felt as though I didn't fight for her enough. My reply was I didn't know I had been brought into a war and every time I talked to her she lied. I was in the same boat as OP and didn't have proof. Now that I'm jaded and anyone comes here and says their spouse looked at someone, I say they cheated. Just another little bit of infidelity joy you get to feel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



There can be so many layers. 


Sorry for your pain drifting... still


----------



## drifting on

Blossom Leigh said:


> There can be so many layers.
> 
> 
> Sorry for your pain drifting... still




Just when you think a layer is healed, you get hit by another. You also have many layers and pain, I hope you are progressing well. God bless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

drifting on said:


> Just when you think a layer is healed, you get hit by another. You also have many layers and pain, I hope you are progressing well. God bless.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



What I am encouraged by at this point is this last one was less severe than October of last year. So intensity is decreasing. 


Thank you. I am with the help of Christ, my own personal work and a FWH who is doing the work. 


/tj


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> iPhone Backup Extractor (get the Pro version) is pretty sweet. Seriously... it gets EVERYTHING. And, while parsing through it all can be somewhat daunting, the website's blog offers quite a bit of guidance.



I assume I only need the pro version and not the home version as well?


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> I assume I only need the pro version and not the home version as well?


Correct.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> In all honesty, sitting here not knowing the whole truth, I could probably get over an EA, but I'm not sure about a PA. Hard to say without knowing exactly what's going on.


It's worth nothing that -- in a great many cases -- an EA is simply an affair that lacks the opportunity for escalation to PA. That said, there's no real lack of opportunity here.

Sorry.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Blossom Leigh said:


> My ex always laughed it off when his friends hit on me, but in my heart it translated to me feeling that he didn't care about me. I felt alone in the battle to keep his friends at bay. This situation is a bit different, but there is that element to consider that it can come across that way.


See and what's sad is men can't win in this scenario because we don't know when it is a legit problem or a sh$t test.
We have hundreds of posts, by women, telling men to calm down because "we can have male friends." 

If we don't laugh it off we are worried.
If we raise questions we are jealous.
If we set a boundary we are controlling.
if we do nothing we aren't getting the "signal" and do not care.

Not trying to attack you, just saying what goes on in some of our minds.


----------



## bandit.45

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See and what's sad is men can't win in this scenario because we don't know when it is a legit problem or a sh$t test.
> We have hundreds of posts, by women, telling men to calm down because "we can have male friends."
> 
> If we don't laugh it off we are worried.
> If we raise questions we are jealous.
> If we set a boundary we are controlling.
> if we do nothing we aren't getting the "signal."


AMEN HALELUJIAH!!!!:iagree::iagree::iagree::allhail:

You are so DAMN RIGHT!!! We can't win. Women will do everything they can to never let us win. That is why we must unite in maledom and reclaim the world. Time to stop shaving, take off our shirts, break out the drums and clubs, and start killing wild animals....then we march on Wall Street. :grin2:


----------



## 3putt

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See and what's sad is men can't win in this scenario because we don't know when it is a legit problem or a sh$t test.
> We have hundreds of posts, by women, telling men to calm down because "we can have male friends."
> 
> If we don't laugh it off we are worried.
> If we raise questions we are jealous.
> If we set a boundary we are controlling.
> if we do nothing we aren't getting the "signal" and do not care.
> 
> Not trying to attack you, just saying what goes on in some of our minds.


Yep!! We cannot win in these situations.


----------



## 3putt

Like the old joke........

*Why Men Can't Win*

If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat race, you're a male chauvinist. If you stay home and do the housework, you're a pansy.

If you work too hard, there is never any time for her. If you don't work enough, you're a good-for-nothing bum.

If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, this is exploitation. If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay, you should get off your ass and find something better.

If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism. If she gets a job ahead of you, it's equal opportunity.

If you mention how nice she looks, it's sexual harassment. If you keep quiet, it's male indifference.

If you cry, you're a wimp. If you don't, you're an insensitive bastard.

If you make a decision without consulting her, you're a chauvinist. If she makes a decision without consulting you, she's a liberated woman.

If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy, that's domination. If she asks you, it's a favor.

If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, you're a pervert. If you don't, you're a homosexual.

If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, you're a sexist pig. If you don't, you're unromantic.

If you try to keep yourself in shape, you're vain. If you don't, you're a slob.

If you buy her flowers, you're after something. If you don't, you're not thoughtful.

If you're proud of your achievements, you're up on yourself. If you don't, you're not ambitious.

If you're totally beat after a hard day, you don't give a damn about other people's needs. If she's totally beat after a hard day, she's tired.

If you want it too often, you're oversexed. If you don't, there must be "someone else".

- - -

(I did look for a "Why Women Can't Win" to run next, but couldn't find one.)


----------



## GusPolinski

GusPolinski said:


> Preparing a detailed reply to this...


OK. Here goes...



In Disbelief said:


> There's a technical issue here. She does not back up her phone to the computer often due to having switched to a new hard drive and iTunes settings being jacked up. That issue is fixed now however. Furthermore, *I believe she deletes the texts prior to the scheduled iCloud backup, so I'm not sure how that impacts things but could make it difficult.*


Shouldn't matter. You should still be able to recover them within a certain window. Your first pull from iCloud backups might not yield very much, but daily pulls will eventually get something.

Remember to be ready to intercept Apple's notification e-mails prior to accessing her account via TeenSafe/iPBE/WDF. Also note that -- depending on the settings for her e-mail account -- the e-mail provider (Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc) itself might send a notification e-mail as well (and possibly even an SMS text) once you've logged into her account. Your best bet may be to initiate this with her -- and her phone -- nearby so that you can intercept anything that might be sent. Switching the phone to silent (with no vibration) ahead of time might not be a bad idea.

I normally wouldn't advise such a level of caution, but it's pretty clear that your wife has been a few steps ahead of you for some time now.

Anyway, once you've gotten into her e-mail account for the first time, it would be a good idea for you to configure some filters or rules to handle any incoming notifications automatically from there on out. Notification e-mails from Apple are sent from the following addresses (@ and . symbols removed)...

* noreply at insideicloud dot icloud dot com - "Find My iPhone" "Lost Mode"/"Play Sound" notifications

OK. This one is a bit tricky; as such, you may want to leave any e-mails sent from this address untouched by filters. After all, if she happens to use the app on her iPad to locate, lock, or erase her iPhone (or vice versa), she might wonder why she didn't get the e-mail notification, especially if she's ever used this functionality before. Still, be ready to intercept any e-mails sent from this address should you use any of the FMI app functionality. 

Another thought... should you decide to use another iOS device (an iPhone, iPod, or iPad) to intercept her iMessage texts in real time (others have done this w/ pretty high degrees of success), when you initially configure the device w/ her account, she'll receive not only a notification e-mail from this address, but she'll be prompted w/ an on-screen alert on each of the other Apple devices currently associated w/ her Apple ID (i.e. her iPhone and iPad, Mac/MacBook if she has one). IOW, you'll want to have each of these devices on hand prior to associating another device w/ her account so that you can dismiss these alerts, _as well as clear them from the Notifications pull-down panel_.

* noreply at apple dot com - iCloud account login notifications

All notifications regarding logins to her iCloud account will be sent from this address. Sooo... since you'll be exporting data from her iCloud device backups via a 3rd party app (which will require that you log into her iCloud account to download the backups), you'll definitely want to filter any e-mails sent from it.

It's also worth mentioning (though I may have mentioned it earlier... can't remember) that tracking her location (or, rather the location of her iPhone) via the "Find My Friends" app won't generate any alerts. And, again, you'll need to have friended each other via the app for this to work. Note that doing this will generate an e-mail alert (though I'm not sure which address will be used to send it). LOL.

Another thought... it would be easy for her to associate her iPad w/ her FMF-based location. This is done within the FMF app itself. Once that has been done, she could leave her iPad at work while she takes her phone along w/ her on her trysts w/ OM.

Sooo... are you *COMPLETELY* paranoid yet? I hope so because DAMN... I feel so sleezy right now. Ugh.

One more question... does she sleep w/ her phone? Take it w/ her to the bathroom?


----------



## GusPolinski

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See and what's sad is men can't win in this scenario because we don't know when it is a legit problem or a sh$t test.
> We have hundreds of posts, by women, telling men to calm down because "we can have male friends."
> 
> If we don't laugh it off we are worried.
> If we raise questions we are jealous.
> If we set a boundary we are controlling.
> if we do nothing we aren't getting the "signal" and do not care.
> 
> Not trying to attack you, just saying what goes on in some of our minds.


Having friends of the opposite sex is fine. But regularly spending time _*ALONE*_ w/ one of them (or any of them, for that matter), after hours, at 130 am, when your spouse has a reasonable expectation that he/she would be able to wake up at that time and find you in bed next to him/her...?

Not to mention that this particular friend has openly expressed romantic feelings for OP's wife?

Deleting texts?

Come on. There's a line, and -- in this case -- _it was crossed *long ago*._


----------



## Blossom Leigh

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See and what's sad is men can't win in this scenario because we don't know when it is a legit problem or a sh$t test.
> We have hundreds of posts, by women, telling men to calm down because "we can have male friends."
> 
> If we don't laugh it off we are worried.
> If we raise questions we are jealous.
> If we set a boundary we are controlling.
> if we do nothing we aren't getting the "signal" and do not care.
> 
> Not trying to attack you, just saying what goes on in some of our minds.



Totally understand. Except, these were his friends, not mine.


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> One more question... does she sleep w/ her phone? Take it w/ her to the bathroom?



Yes, she sleeps with the phone next to her. She usually takes the phone to the bathroom with her, but not always.


----------



## bandit.45

Oh boy...


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> Yes, she sleeps with the phone next to her. She usually takes the phone to the bathroom with her, but not always.


On the nightstand or underneath her pillow?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

GusPolinski said:


> Having friends of the opposite sex is fine. But regularly spending time _*ALONE*_ w/ one of them (or any of them, for that matter), after hours, at 130 am, when your spouse has a reasonable expectation that he/she would be able to wake up at that time and find you in bed next to him/her...?
> 
> Not to mention that this particular friend has openly expressed romantic feelings for OP's wife?
> 
> Deleting texts?
> 
> Come on. There's a line, and -- in this case -- _it was crossed *long ago*._


Totally missed my point, but okay.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Blossom Leigh said:


> Totally understand. Except, these were his friends, not mine.


Oh yes and that can make it worse for both parties. You were in a terrible quandary and I am not trying to minimize your feelings. It is all confusing.


----------



## GusPolinski

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Totally missed my point, but okay.


No, I get it. It wasn't my goal to contradict or disagree w/ you. If anything I was supplementing what you were saying.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

GusPolinski said:


> No, I get it. It wasn't my goal to contradict or disagree w/ you. If anything I was supplementing what you were saying.


Yes, see that now, my apologies.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Oh yes and that can make it worse for both parties. You were in a terrible quandary and I am not trying to minimize your feelings. It is all confusing.


I have certainly seen it happen the way you describe, so agreed.


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> On the nightstand or underneath her pillow?



Nightstand.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> Nightstand.


In all fairness, I do the same, but that's because I use my iPhone as an alarm clock. My wife goes to bed w/ her iPad mini and uses it similarly.

Do you ever look at or use her phone in her presence? If so, how does she react?


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> In all fairness, I do the same, but that's because I use my iPhone as an alarm clock. My wife goes to bed w/ her iPad mini and uses it similarly.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you ever look at or use her phone in her presence? If so, how does she react?



Only if a family member is calling. She's not usually upset by that.


----------



## In Disbelief

In Disbelief said:


> Only if a family member is calling. She's not usually upset by that.



Full disclosure here, she seems to make an effort to make sure I'm not seeing the texts between them. This could be either the truth, or because I'm suspicious. As they say, go looking for something and eventually you'll find it. Other times, she shows me their texts.


----------



## bandit.45

Well, if you are not afraid to be a doosh...

...wait for her to be distracted and grab that phone out of her hand or off the bed when she's sleeping and run in the bathroom and barricade the door. Seriously. Then take your sweet time going through her texts and e-mails. 

We have had other TAM members do this with great success. 

Just don't be surprised if she calls the cops on your LAN line. Maybe use your phone's recorder while you are doing so, so she can't say you assaulted her.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> Full disclosure here, she seems to make an effort to make sure I'm not seeing the texts between them. This could be either the truth, or because I'm suspicious. As they say, go looking for something and eventually you'll find it. Other times, she shows me their texts.


Too much uncertainty here for my comfort. It's just too easy to selectively delete texts.


----------



## Roselyn

In Disbelief said:


> Full disclosure here, she seems to make an effort to make sure I'm not seeing the texts between them. This could be either the truth, or because I'm suspicious. As they say, go looking for something and eventually you'll find it. Other times, she shows me their texts.


She hides the texts because she is sharing intimate conversations with the OW. You are not included. She shows you their texts, just to show you her joy, without incriminating herself! Sitting on the fence will not help your marriage. Stop this nonsense.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you check the call records? Cheaters notoriously call their AP as soon as they jump in the car in the morning to go to work.


A VAR is especially good for this. The majority of people here have caught their spores with a VAR. Its cheap and nearly fool proof.


----------



## GusPolinski

Chaparral said:


> Did you check the call records? Cheaters notoriously call their AP as soon as they jump in the car in the morning to go to work.
> 
> 
> A VAR is especially good for this. The majority of people here have caught their spores with a VAR. Its cheap and nearly fool proof.


OM uses an iPhone as well, correct? This is especially important, as any calls made via FaceTime Audio (or Skype, or whatever other VoIP app) won't show up on the phone bill.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

GusPolinski said:


> In all fairness, I do the same, but that's because I use my iPhone as an alarm clock. My wife goes to bed w/ her iPad mini and uses it similarly.
> 
> Do you ever look at or use her phone in her presence? If so, how does she react?


I always have my phone with me, and sometimes under my pillow. I often listen to ASMR YouTube videos as I drift off to sleep (Google it and don't judge...it's a little addictive lol). I don't think anything of people going to bed with their phones these days.


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> OM uses an iPhone as well, correct? This is especially important, as any calls made via FaceTime Audio (or Skype, or whatever other VoIP app) won't show up on the phone bill.



No, he doesn't.


----------



## In Disbelief

Chaparral said:


> Did you check the call records? Cheaters notoriously call their AP as soon as they jump in the car in the morning to go to work.
> 
> 
> A VAR is especially good for this. The majority of people here have caught their spores with a VAR. Its cheap and nearly fool proof.



They don't really talk via phone, only through text. They carpool so a VAR might be good for that.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> No, he doesn't.


Ah. So then her texts to him should show up on the phone bill. Are they? If not, they're communicating via some other means.

As far as you can tell, does she delete ONLY texts exchanged w/ OM or is she in the habit of deleting ALL of her texts?


----------



## nuclearnightmare

OP

what would she do if you went up to her, demanded her phone and any passwords needed, telling her you want to check what she is saying to him and him to her.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> They don't really talk via phone, only through text. They carpool so a VAR might be good for that.


Uhhh... yeah. Buy a VAR. Sony ICDPX333 or better. Pair it w/ lithium batteries to get the most bang for your buck. Spend some extra $$$ up front and get rechargeable batteries in order to save yourself some coin in the long run. Secure it w/ plenty of Velcro. Hell, throw in some zip ties if you have to... whatever it takes to keep it from coming loose.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

BTW she doesn't sound like much of a friend to you, or much of a wife. It sounds as if not having children with her is the best thing that has ever happened to you.


----------



## In Disbelief

nuclearnightmare said:


> OP
> 
> 
> 
> what would she do if you went up to her, demanded her phone and any passwords needed, telling her you want to check what she is saying to him and him to her.



Tell me to eff off. Demands don't go over well, but that's hereditary.


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> Ah. So then her texts to him should show up on the phone bill. Are they? If not, they're communicating via some other means.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as you can tell, does she delete ONLY texts exchanged w/ OM or is she in the habit of deleting ALL of her texts?



Yes, that's how I know they exchange over 2k texts a month; sometimes over 100 a day. As far as I know, she deletes only his.


----------



## bandit.45

In Disbelief said:


> Yes, that's how I know they exchange over 2k texts a month; sometimes over 100 a day. As far as I know, she deletes only his.


Yeah that's bullsh!t. Dollars to donuts she is an an active EA/PA. 

If it is important for you to get to the nitty gritty of all they have been up to, then do the VAR/computer investigation/ sleuthing...

Or cut to the chase, see a lawyer, draw up a D petition and have her served. When she freaks tell her you know she has been cheating with her coworker and that you are not going to waste any more of your life on her. Her response to that will tell you all you need to know.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

In Disbelief said:


> Tell me to eff off. Demands don't go over well, but that's hereditary.



and if you told her that was the wrong answer unless she wants to find a new place to live....today. then what?

have you ever tried not backing down to her? I think we both know that if your self-respect means anything to you, you'll have to get her out of your life. Showing her respect while she shows you so little has lost its benefit for you. so I suggest you stop showing her.........any


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah that's bullsh!t. Dollars to donuts she is an an active EA/PA.
> 
> If it is important for you to get to the nitty gritty of all they have been up to, then do the VAR/computer investigation/ sleuthing...
> 
> Or cut to the chase, see a lawyer, draw up a D petition and have her served. When she freaks tell her you know she has been cheating with her coworker and that you are not going to waste any more of your life on her. Her response to that will tell you all you need to know.


Despite all of the advice that I've given w/ respect to sleuthing, monitoring, etc, I've gotta agree w/ brandit (Did you see that, @bandit.45...?  ) here. I mean... I understand the need to know (BELIEVE ME), but it's pretty clear that your wife is in an affair w/ this guy.

That said, if you happen to live someplace where infidelity matters in terms of determining allocation of marital property or whether or not spousal support is awarded in the case of divorce, then by all means... sleuth away. If not, though... well, there's really no point.


----------



## In Disbelief

nuclearnightmare said:


> and if you told her that was the wrong answer unless she wants to find a new place to live....today. then what?
> 
> 
> 
> have you ever tried not backing down to her? I think we both know that if your self-respect means anything to you, you'll have to get her out of your life. Showing her respect while she shows you so little has lost its benefit for you. so I suggest you stop showing her.........any



Yes, in arguments and discussions I stand my ground all the time. I just know better than to give a flat out ultimatum in an attacking manner; it will accomplish nothing. Using undeniable logic however gets me a lot further with her.


----------



## badmemory

In Disbelief said:


> Yes, in arguments and discussions I stand my ground all the time. I just know better than to give a flat out ultimatum in an attacking manner; it will accomplish nothing. Using undeniable logic however gets me a lot further with her.


So, you don't present it in an attacking manner and you don't use the word ultimatum.

You calmly and rationally tell her that you can't control what she does, but that you can control what you will accept from her. And that you are no longer willing to accept (fill in the blank).

If that still sets her off, so be it.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

In Disbelief said:


> Yes, in arguments and discussions I stand my ground all the time. I just know better than to give a flat out ultimatum in an attacking manner; it will accomplish nothing. Using undeniable logic however gets me a lot further with her.


And when undeniable logic leads to an ultimatum?


----------



## weightlifter

Im the author of the standard evidence post. Its not just mine but the experience of dozens who preceded you here.

Havng been here far too long and been involved in multitudes of stories here, both published and pm'ed. Your odds are grim. Steel yourself.

Gus is a minor diety on the phone side. Listen to him. Its cery easy to set off apple notifications.

Just do the var now. You have a ridiculous number of red flags. i expect its all you need and its ridiculously easy. Follow the settings i give. They are important, especially the 44k bit rate. Ive cleaned up both 8 k and 44k files. Hands down 44k files can be clarified much much better. Just go now and get the vars. you only prolong the agony by waiting.


----------



## weightlifter

Disagree on confronting now. Too easy to deny.


----------



## In Disbelief

weightlifter said:


> Disagree on confronting now. Too easy to deny.



I have no intent on confronting at the moment. Regarding phone stuff, I always test stuff on myself first just to see if it sets anything off.


----------



## happy as a clam

In Disbelief said:


> I have no intent on confronting at the moment. Regarding phone stuff, I always test stuff on myself first just to see if it sets anything off.


Ok, but please go get the VARs. Tonight. You will have your proof in short order.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> I have no intent on confronting at the moment. Regarding phone stuff, I always test stuff on myself first just to see if it sets anything off.


Good man.


----------



## ConanHub

In Disbelief said:


> Yes, in arguments and discussions I stand my ground all the time. I just know better than to give a flat out ultimatum in an attacking manner; it will accomplish nothing. Using undeniable logic however gets me a lot further with her.


OM seems to have gotten the lot further with her than you.

Might be time to change things up. Just a thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

At least this op listens.

Btw. Dont listen to her having sex with another. It will damage you worse. Have a trusted friend lusten and give you a summary.


----------



## Sports Fan

GusPolinski said:


> OM uses an iPhone as well, correct? This is especially important, as any calls made via FaceTime Audio (or Skype, or whatever other VoIP app) won't show up on the phone bill.


This is why a VAR in the Car is especially important.


----------



## snerg

Sports Fan said:


> This is why a VAR in the Car is especially important.


cheaters tend to believe they are safe to speak freely with their AP in their own car.

You can get a lot of unfiltered conversation between her and her AP.


----------



## OldWolf57

Understand after 20 yrs. you want the truth, but come on man. Get the VAR, or are you afraid to really end this marriage?

You say she will not react well to demands, but you will be demanding she NOT sleep with him anymore I hope, once you get the evidence.
So you better be ready to file my man.


----------



## arbitrator

* I'm in total agreement with the VAR proponents! That needed to be done yesterday! You also should take should take some time off and get yourself tested for the presence of STD's, as it more than appears that she has been sexually active with the both of you on at least a semiconsistent basis ~ with you, to suppress suspicion of anything going on, and with him as her "new" confidante and lover!

If your "gut instincts" haven't yet already kicked in by now, they damn well should! Her overnight work habits, her secretive phone etiquette, and most damningly, her constant affinity to keep the lawn fastidiously mowed down in the "playground," and you don't seem to be the beneficiary of any of it!

And please rest assured that if she is keeping those pubes of hers removed on an habitual basis, it's probably not because that she's suddenly contracted herself a good case of crab lice!

Read NMMNG by Dr. Robert Glover and execute the 180! Don't live in fear or denial!*


----------



## Chaparral

here's a link to free NO MORE MR NICE GUY https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

You also need the MMSLP book linked to below, its also available for download at amazon.com, Go check out the reviews.

NOT JUST FRIENDS is a book for you both.


----------



## Forest

Well, I don't know if its best to wait for more evidence, or confront her, but she is treating you like a chump.

If you are afraid to confront, demand explanations, and generally be direct and forceful with her, she is also going to hold THAT against you.

Weakness is a huge repellent to women. They despise it, and run from it. Being nice never works, logic never works. Its nutzoid, but when brain chemicals are involved women want men that act like men. Trouble is, too often this involves a jerkoff "bad boy" and all that nonsense.


----------



## RWB

Just saying...

A $40.00 VAR would of given me the proof in 15 min that was hidden and denied for years on end.


----------



## Steve1000

weightlifter said:


> At least this op listens.
> 
> Btw. Dont listen to her having sex with another. It will damage you worse. Have a trusted friend lusten and give you a summary.


I merely saw a few texts messages after my girlfriend (at that time) had sex with another man - two years after the fact, and THAT even damaged me. I can't imagine what listening to a recent voice recording of one's spouse would do to someone. I'm sure that you would never be able to erase that from your memory.


----------



## LongWalk

Buy the Sony VAR and secure it in her car.

When she is out do a comprehensive inventory of her panties, those in the drawer and laundry. Since OM is single if she is having sex with him she has a supply there. If you have a tight list, you may find variation in number and brand. You may also find crusty ones that you can set aside and do a semen test on.

The VARs in the car a generally very effective.

This has gone on so long, you can afford to lay low and get proof before you file for divorce.

Have you and your wife been unsuccessfully trying to conceive a child? If so, do you have a diagnosis?


----------



## GusPolinski

LongWalk said:


> Buy the Sony VAR and secure it in her car.
> 
> When she is out do a comprehensive inventory of her panties, those in the drawer and laundry. Since OM is single if she is having sex with him she has a supply there. If you have a tight list, you may find variation in number and brand. You may also find crusty ones that you can set aside and do a semen test on.
> 
> The VARs in the car a generally very effective.
> 
> This has gone on so long, you can afford to lay low and get proof before you file for divorce.
> 
> Have you and your wife been unsuccessfully trying to conceive a child? If so, do you have a diagnosis?


Uhhh... let's just start w/ a VAR in the car. Since she's carpooling w/ OM to and from work every day, it should take roughly no time flat for OP to find something.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LongWalk said:


> You may also find crusty ones that you can set aside and do a semen test on.


Any panties you come across in the laundry basket with hard white crust in the crotch area are a dead give away for recent sexual activity. 

Trust me on that one... :frown2:


----------



## BetrayedDad

Steve1000 said:


> I'm sure that you would never be able to erase that from your memory.


Have a friend or family member listen to it OP if that's a concern. 

I wish I had done that...


----------



## TheGoodGuy

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Oh yes and that can make it worse for both parties. You were in a terrible quandary and I am not trying to minimize your feelings. It is all confusing.


There was a good thread going about mate-guarding a while back. Too bad it kind of fizzled because there was soon good debate with many woman loooooving it when their guy told other guys to back off, others thought it was a bit too jealous.. Twas a good debate.


----------



## the guy

Man is it me or is this a slam dunk in getting a VAR....hell they car pool!!!!!!!

All this business about retrieving text/getting the phone and the affair is all right there in the car just waiting to get recorded.

It really doesn't get any easier.


----------



## May1968

Wrong post


----------



## May1968

Wish we had VARs back when I need it. Would have helped me to figure things out much quicker.


----------



## where_are_we

I think there comes a point where you don't really need more evidence. You know what you know and you no longer need validation. In my experience, even when you have black and white evidence they will refute it.

Telling lies that they believe are or will become truth. They are sick and you can't change that.


----------



## hospitality

Listen to weightlifter!!!

Affairs with someone from work are extremely easy to deny because there is a reason to communicate and be together. The "major" project from work may have just been another standard issue project so they could have extra time to be together, but you don't know. 2000 texts in one month to a guy from the gym and she is busted, but 2000 texts to a guy from work, just part of the project. Stopping by his house, just part of the project. Together in a car, just carpooling. You have dozens of red flags that can easily be rationalized away and will just make your wife work harder to hide to the affair if you confront without hard evidence. 

The real reason you want to gather evidence is so that you know what EXACTLY is/isn't going on and what you are up against. Don't be afraid to take what the steps needed as outlined to find out for sure. You might actually find good news but I doubt it from what you have written. 

First step, VAR in her car and your home. Try to leave the house so she has freedom to talk.
Second step, GPS her car. I put one on my wife's car and it collected two weeks of data and streams live location. One charge lasts two weeks. I could see the GPS live or look back at the end of day. The GPS will give you a location to go with the VAR audio. You might see them pull off into the woods on their way to work or park in a hotel parking lot all evening. He has his own home and she has a reason to be there, but pulling up and immediately driving off tells a much different story then parking for 45 minutes and then leaving for work. Plus, the GPS will help you see where they go for drinks etc where you could have a trusted friend they don't know stop in and take a few pics of the love birds in action.

Most importantly remember you are trying to find the truth, because mind games are limitless and will drive you crazy!!!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

And I just highly recommend letting someone else listen to the whole VAR for you, even words spoken because you cannot unhear it once its heard.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

Blossom Leigh said:


> And I just highly recommend letting someone else listen to the whole VAR for you, even words spoken because you cannot unhear it once its heard.


Just my perspective, but I would always want to see/hear the worst of it. There is power in truth and you can not harness it if you don't fully experience it.


----------



## OldWolf57

Hey D, just checking on you brother.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ScrambledEggs said:


> Just my perspective, but I would always want to see/hear the worst of it. There is power in truth and you can not harness it if you don't fully experience it.


I totally get that perspective too since it can be used to fuel action, its just a risk for sure since the impact on your emotional health is unknown until its too late.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on

Blossom Leigh said:


> I totally get that perspective too since it can be used to fuel action, its just a risk for sure since the impact on your emotional health is unknown until its too late.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Isn't that the truth, I'll say don't wait, personally I sometimes struggle with did I get help too early or too late.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Texansfan

I haven't had a chance to read through everything here but I just want to reiterate the same as many....DO NOT confront unless you have absolute proof. I suspected something over 2 months ago, and confronted right away. This was the biggest mistake of my life and I kick myself for handling it that way every day. I received the usual denial responses multiple times. I set myself up with VAR's and other tracking after the fact but ofcourse nothing. Sure, it could be possible that it didn't happen, but some signs and gut feelings are usually right. Regardless, I can't let it go. As far as she knows, I got past it and things are somewhat back to normal. However, that is not the case for me. Some days are better than others for me. Today is not one of the good days....part of the reason why I am writing this. I have a pit in my stomach all day. I think it was or still is a work affair and when she is there and not with me I am anxious and uncomfortable. It feels horrible.

Not to hijack the thread. Just wanted to stress the point over and over....do not confront unless you have absolute confirmation. Otherwise, she will deny and you will probably alway suspect but never know for sure.

I'm scared that I may ruin the marriage because of what I suspect. However, it's so hard to walk away without proof.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

OP, Any News on this? Hope it turned out well for you.


----------



## In Disbelief

Gathering evidence and laying low. Nothing to report as of yet.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you put a var in her car?

Has her behavior changed at all? Is she suspicious you are checking up on her?

Does she still text him as much?


----------



## MattMatt

Thinking of you.


----------



## In Disbelief

Chaparral said:


> Did you put a var in her car?
> 
> Has her behavior changed at all? Is she suspicious you are checking up on her?
> 
> Does she still text him as much?



VAR has revealed nothing but work talk. I suspect anything going on occurs at his house. Monitoring texts, which has been enlightening to say the least. Nothing empirical yet however.


----------



## Chaparral

In Disbelief said:


> VAR has revealed nothing but work talk. I suspect anything going on occurs at his house. Monitoring texts, which has been enlightening to say the least. Nothing empirical yet however.


Enlightening as to your relationship? Their relationship? Her take on life?

Who has it recorded her talking to?


----------



## Chaparral

If you have heard her talking to him and there is nothing sexual being said that is a really good sign.

No change in your sex life is another good sign.

Does she talk and interact with you like she always did?

Try brick house security online for a great pen var that you can slip in her purse. Assuming she has a normal sixed purse.

Did you get the two books linked to below?


----------



## Chaparral

In Disbelief said:


> VAR has revealed nothing but work talk. I suspect anything going on occurs at his house. Monitoring texts, which has been enlightening to say the least. Nothing empirical yet however.


Enlightening as to your relationship? Their relationship? Her take on life?

Who has it recorded her talking to?


----------



## In Disbelief

Chaparral said:


> Enlightening as to your relationship? Their relationship? Her take on life?
> 
> Who has it recorded her talking to?



Both ours and theirs. No doubt their relationship has entered a phase I'm not comfortable with. He's clearly trying to woo her away from me. She likes the attention, but I can't tell thus far how far it's gone.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> Both ours and theirs. No doubt their relationship has entered a phase I'm not comfortable with. He's clearly trying to woo her away from me. She likes the attention, but I can't tell thus far how far it's gone.


You mentioned that you weren't able to get anything on the VAR other than work-related discussion. You also implied that, if anything is going on, it's happening at his place.

Is she spending time at his house w/ any sort of regularity? If so, is she aware that you're aware of it?


----------



## In Disbelief

GusPolinski said:


> You mentioned that you weren't able to get anything on the VAR other than work-related discussion. You also implied that, if anything is going on, it's happening at his place.
> 
> 
> 
> Is she spending time at his house w/ any sort of regularity? If so, is she aware that you're aware of it?



Yes and yes. Typically this happens on days where she drives, as she picks him up and drops him off. On at least one occasion she has claimed that she was only there a few minutes, but GPS stated otherwise. It could be she just lost track of time, or it could be an outright lie.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> Yes and yes. Typically this happens on days where she drives, as she picks him up and drops him off. On at least one occasion she has claimed that she was only there a few minutes, but GPS stated otherwise. It could be she just lost track of time, or it could be an outright lie.


Just curious... which GPS solution are you using?


----------



## In Disbelief

I'd rather not say in the event one or both happen upon this thread.


----------



## GusPolinski

In Disbelief said:


> I'd rather not say in the event one or both happen upon this thread.


FWIW, you could PM one of the mods and request that this thread be moved to the Private Members' Section sub-forum.

Threads in that forum aren't picked up by Google searches and can't be accessed by new members w/ fewer than 30 posts, unless of course they pay to become Forum Supporters.

Mods are...

Amplexor
Coffee Amore
Deejo
EleGirl
FrenchFry


----------



## OldWolf57

Is she still grooming the kitty on her drive days?


----------



## OldWolf57

I ask because it may mean she has consoled him, but now feel he can fly on his own, and was not good enough to be a keeper.


----------



## kjm

This thread brings back awful memories. I now realize how strongly my ex's affair affected me 21 years ago. I am developing a pit in my stomach just reading it. It takes me back to those days, but in 1993, we didn't have iPhones, and VAR's were rare and expensive and actually required a cassette tape. However, my ex was a compulsive diary keeper and that made my task much easier. I was in the Army then and while my Battalion was deployed, we always had one or two guys left behind because of illness or other commitments. One of those guys told me what he had seen in town at a restaurant, so I checked the diary and found plenty of proof. Still, reading this just takes me to a place I didn't need to go. I realize that in a marriage we often times are guilty of not meeting the other person's needs, and we often don't get our own needs met. Since my wife doesn't shave down yonder, I would get hyper suspicious of that activity or any particular grooming habits out of the norm. 

Even if this doesn't work out for you, believe me, life goes on and can actually get incredibly better. The marriage I am in now (and for 19 years), is beyond anything I thought was possible, and still somehow we manage to make it better. That doesn't mean I haven't had my suspicions and having lived through a betrayal like this, it is hard to not occasionally see any similar sign as a red flag. I hope you are totally wrong. I hope this hasn't become a PA. Good luck friend.


----------



## michzz

I can remember to what lengths a cheating wife can go to not admit the obvious.

I followed her once in the car, leaving our small kids at home on a Saturday. Yeah, I risked that they'd get hurt unsupervised.

She was supposed to be going to the mall and shopping at Target, etc.

Nope, she went and parked at the apartment complex she worked at. As I sat in my car, right next to her car, i called her up and she eventually answered. I asked her how the shopping was going at Target.

She was guarded and said that it was good but they don't have the right size for pants she said she was after.

I asked her if she was sure she tried Target? Maybe that store right next door?

She insisted that she was at Target and didn't appreciate me checking up on her.

I said, well, that's funny, I'm parked right next to your car! And it doesn't seem to be at Target.

She was at the jerk's apartment. I just didn't know for sure where or his name.

Cold as ice, she responded that she had popped in to say hi at the office there on my way to the mall.

I went right over to the office and found it locked, nobody there.

I went home and looked after the kids instead of pounding on every damned apartment in the place.


----------



## In Disbelief

OldWolf57 said:


> I ask because it may mean she has consoled him, but now feel he can fly on his own, and was not good enough to be a keeper.



Not on every one. Given that she is very much concerned with the welfare of both strangers and friends, this would seem a likely scenario.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

michzz said:


> She insisted that she was at Target and didn't appreciate me checking up on her.
> 
> I said, well, that's funny, I'm parked right next to your car! And it doesn't seem to be at Target.
> 
> Cold as ice, she responded that she had popped in to say hi at the office there on my way to the mall.


Good lord.....:surprise:


----------



## Texansfan

Texansfan said:


> I haven't had a chance to read through everything here but I just want to reiterate the same as many....DO NOT confront unless you have absolute proof. I suspected something over 2 months ago, and confronted right away. This was the biggest mistake of my life and I kick myself for handling it that way every day. I received the usual denial responses multiple times. I set myself up with VAR's and other tracking after the fact but ofcourse nothing. Sure, it could be possible that it didn't happen, but some signs and gut feelings are usually right. Regardless, I can't let it go. As far as she knows, I got past it and things are somewhat back to normal. However, that is not the case for me. Some days are better than others for me. Today is not one of the good days....part of the reason why I am writing this. I have a pit in my stomach all day. I think it was or still is a work affair and when she is there and not with me I am anxious and uncomfortable. It feels horrible.
> 
> Not to hijack the thread. Just wanted to stress the point over and over....do not confront unless you have absolute confirmation. Otherwise, she will deny and you will probably alway suspect but never know for sure.
> 
> I'm scared that I may ruin the marriage because of what I suspect. However, it's so hard to walk away without proof.


Hi guys, this question is the for the techy's...specifically the Iphone 6 techies. Would you know in an unjailbroken iphone if there are apps you can download/buy that would either remain hidden from the home screen or in folders, etc. Or maybe run in the background or something? I didn't think Apple phones have this unless you jailbreak it and I know the phone is not jailbroken. Reason I ask is because I thought I noticed a screen on my wife's phone while she was using it that I didn't recognize and then it closed when she hit the home button when I got closer. Could be nothing but I know her iphone 6 inside and out, all the apps, etc. Also, I checked immediately after to see programs running in background when you double click the home button but didn't see the app with that screen...seemed strange. It was a quick glimpse but the screen looked like it was blank around the outside with a 1-2 inch rectangle box in the center, and it appeared to have a photo in the box, could have been my wife's profile pic in the box. Again, probably nothing (maybe gmail or linked in or something)...just curious if there are possibly messaging apps or something that could be hidden on iphone without it being jailbroken. As always, thanks guys.


----------



## GusPolinski

Texansfan said:


> Hi guys, this question is the for the techy's...specifically the Iphone 6 techies. Would you know in an unjailbroken iphone if there are apps you can download/buy that would either remain hidden from the home screen or in folders, etc. Or maybe run in the background or something? I didn't think Apple phones have this unless you jailbreak it and I know the phone is not jailbroken. Reason I ask is because I thought I noticed a screen on my wife's phone while she was using it that I didn't recognize and then it closed when she hit the home button when I got closer. Could be nothing but I know her iphone 6 inside and out, all the apps, etc. Also, I checked immediately after to see programs running in background when you double click the home button but didn't see the app with that screen...seemed strange. It was a quick glimpse but the screen looked like it was blank around the outside with a 1-2 inch rectangle box in the center, and it appeared to have a photo in the box, could have been my wife's profile pic in the box. Again, probably nothing (maybe gmail or linked in or something)...just curious if there are possibly messaging apps or something that could be hidden on iphone without it being jailbroken. As always, thanks guys.


TF, I'd advise you to open your own thread.

About to head out the door, but I'll definitely respond later today.


----------



## turnera

In Disbelief said:


> VAR has revealed nothing but work talk. I suspect anything going on* occurs at his house.* Monitoring texts, which has been enlightening to say the least. Nothing empirical yet however.


Then I suggest you stop wasting time on VARs and hire a professional, a PI, to get the evidence you need.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

Texansfan said:


> Hi guys, this question is the for the techy's...specifically the Iphone 6 techies. Would you know in an unjailbroken iphone if there are apps you can download/buy that would either remain hidden from the home screen or in folders, etc. Or maybe run in the background or something? I didn't think Apple phones have this unless you jailbreak it and I know the phone is not jailbroken. Reason I ask is because I thought I noticed a screen on my wife's phone while she was using it that I didn't recognize and then it closed when she hit the home button when I got closer. Could be nothing but I know her iphone 6 inside and out, all the apps, etc. Also, I checked immediately after to see programs running in background when you double click the home button but didn't see the app with that screen...seemed strange. It was a quick glimpse but the screen looked like it was blank around the outside with a 1-2 inch rectangle box in the center, and it appeared to have a photo in the box, could have been my wife's profile pic in the box. Again, probably nothing (maybe gmail or linked in or something)...just curious if there are possibly messaging apps or something that could be hidden on iphone without it being jailbroken. As always, thanks guys.


If it is not jailbroken, just go into the App Store and look at the apps listed as "purchased" That will clear up any shenanigans with respect to hiding apps in nested folders or whatever.


----------



## Chaparral

Digital Voice Recorder Pen | Covertly Record Audio w/ the Pen Recorder
Check this link out but use the incognito browser in case Google starts bombarding you with adds you don't want anyone to see!


----------



## aine

In Disbelief, how are things with you now?


----------

