# Am I having an affair?



## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi. I recently found this site. Stumbling around through a separation, trying to find some answers, etc. I see that there is a lot of experience here. You're even using acronyms! One acronym caught my attention: EA. I was wondering if some of you might weigh in on this. I would appreciate it and thank you, in advance.

About four months ago, my wife and I separated. We had recently quit eight months of counseling with NO result. At the same time, I was having problems with my grown daughter. I was frustrated and at my wits end. Having no satisfaction from the counselor, I placed an ad on Craigslist. I asked for a Sounding Broad. I wanted an objective third party female take on the issues I was having with my wife and daughter. Anyway, a woman responded and we began communicating.

We started off with emails but, pretty soon, moved to chat. She has provided some valuable perspectives to me. It has been a help in my upset times. Not surprisingly (she did answer my ad on CL, after all) she is having trouble with her marriage, too. She claims I have been a helpful outlet for her, too. That our discussions help coalesce and articulate thoughts and feelings. Perhaps stumble toward some clarity and understanding. We have been helpful to each other in that regard.

We have never had sex. We have met three or four times, had coffee, walked around a bit. I do not think there is a sexual chemistry between us. Here's the thing: She says that she has been open with her husband about out communications since day one; even letting him know on the days we met. She says she has explained to her husband that I am an outlet for her and that it is helpful in her mind. She said he has always been OK with it. I find that hard to believe. I would not be fine with it, if it was my wife. Here is my question: Are she and I having an "emotional affair"? 

I honestly feel that our relationship is not in danger of going physical. I also believe we have been useful to one another (much more helpful than the counselor I paid a lot of money to!). Thoughts? Thank you.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I would consider any relationship with any person of any sex that takes away time and resources from your family to be an EA.

Just one man's opinion.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Whoa, stop! If you're her "go to" buddy for all her problems..... you're not having an affair with her yet, but you're not too far off. 

See if you feel differently after going NC with her for a week or two. It would also be a good idea to meet the husband and talk to thoe both of them instead of just the wife. You don't know for sure if she's lying to her husband about you..... or her intentions on CL.


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## Kronk (Dec 8, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> I would not be fine with it, if it was my wife.


Why are you doing it with someone else's wife then?


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Thank y'all, so far. Here's my replies:

sandc, that definition can't be right. According to that I would be having an emotional affair with my buddy when we go to a football game.

Nsweet: I honestly don't believe there is sexual chemistry between us. I've never been the casual sex type and am in a weird spot now, anyway. I don't even want a sexual relationship at this point.

Kronk: Good question. It's the one I am trying to answer. Hopefully this is open-mindedness and not rationalizing but I understand that my opinions are not everyone's, that other people have different mores and values. Just because I wouldn't be alright with it doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong. But, yes, I feel it is. I've mentioned breaking our communications off but she doesn't want to (and neither do I to be honest). She's promised that if it becomes a problem with her husband, she will break it off. I suppose the gallant thing is for me to end it just to be on the safe side. Unfortunately, like a lot of people here, I am all alone with a lot of emotion and angst. And I guess I am not as strong as I would like to be. I feel like I need someone to "talk" to. She has been good at that.


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## Kronk (Dec 8, 2012)

If you feel it is the wrong thing to do, then it is.
Do the right thing and leave the married women alone.
Why don't you suggest her husband comes along on one of your jaunts? Bet you don't like that prospect much do you?


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

NO,she is a woman you are friends with,her husband knows and you are seperated so why not just enjoy her company.


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## Kronk (Dec 8, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> NO,she is a woman you are friends with,her husband knows and you are seperated so why not just enjoy her company.


Does her husband really know? She may be lying to both of them. If I found my Mrs on Craigslist contacting other men I would launch the computer as hard and as far as I could.
Have you actually spoken to the husband and asked him if he is ok with it OP?


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## oncehisangel (Oct 13, 2012)

where is mr conrads 2 x 4's?

good grief...ruuuuuunnnnn to a councelor-not someone else's wife!!!

ps. no craigslist....no no no.

oh boy.


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

She could be lying her ass off,but I am going with she is an adult and can make her own decisions without a FBI background check.If her friendship is helping him get through something then go with it.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> She could be lying her ass off,but I am going with she is an adult and can make her own decisions without a FBI background check.If her friendship is helping him get through something then go with it.


No. No. No. 

She is married. Cut it out. You dont know what she has told her husband. For all you know you are the OM that she is having an EA with. You can be assisting in the destruction of the marriage. 

Why would you want to be part of that? 

What reason did you and your wife separate? 

This is how EA's start. Innocent at first.....

Go to a counselor.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Thank you all for your thoughts. It is very kind of you to read my post and respond to me, a stranger. As much as I hate to, I have to agree with Kruk and others who feel this is inappropriate. I have, I suppose, rationalized it because I am scared of the alternative. Here's my thought:

For ME, as one individual, it has been helpful. It has gotten me through dark days and allowed me to air feelings that otherwise would stay bottled up. It has helped ME move forward.

For HER, as one individual, it has been helpful. It has gotten her through dark days and allowed her to air feelings that would otherwise stay bottled up. I am not sure it has helped HER move forward.

While it is OK to view ME as an individual, it is not OK to view her as an individual. At this point she is not that, she is part of a couple and, so, I have to look at the ramifications on, not SHE, but THEM.

When I do that, I think: For THEM, as a couple, it has not been helpful. It has, maybe, extended their dark days by allowing them to avoid feelings that should be discussed between THEM. I am an intrusion, a diversion and an enabler. None of which is good for THEM. It has NOT allowed THEM to move forward.

I will tell her that we can no longer communicate. Honestly, the prospect of that is really frightening to me. I have always been rather private and have a very small social circle. I have no one else. I suspect Christmas time, etc. is going to be tough and I dread spending it alone with my emotions. But, my emotions will not benefit by knowing, inside, that I am doing another person wrong. If it is just going to be me, I suppose I should be able to look in the mirror.

Anyway, thank you all, again, for taking the time with my problem. I appreciate the thought you put into it. Thanks for the tough words, Kruk. You and I are on the same page. Out of selfishness, I allowed myself to look away from what I know to be right. I will try to be stronger, to do better, moving forward.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

I should say "Kronk", not "Kruk".


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> Hi. I recently found this site. Stumbling around through a separation, trying to find some answers, etc. I see that there is a lot of experience here. You're even using acronyms! One acronym caught my attention: EA. I was wondering if some of you might weigh in on this. I would appreciate it and thank you, in advance.
> 
> About four months ago, my wife and I separated. We had recently quit eight months of counseling with NO result. At the same time, I was having problems with my grown daughter. I was frustrated and at my wits end. Having no satisfaction from the counselor, I placed an ad on Craigslist. I asked for a Sounding Broad. I wanted an objective third party female take on the issues I was having with my wife and daughter. Anyway, a woman responded and we began communicating.
> 
> ...


In my opinion, if you have to ask, then you are.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

DeltaBlues said:


> Thank y'all, so far. Here's my replies:
> 
> sandc, that definition can't be right. According to that I would be having an emotional affair with my buddy when we go to a football game.


It can be right. There are several examples of same sex EA's here on TAM. Hang around long enough and you'll see just about everything here. Granted it's usually women that get into the same sex EA's.

But male-female EA's are far more prevalent. I agree with others in that you only have this woman's word for what her relationship with her husband is like. He may not have a clue as to what is going on. Ask her if you can talk to him some time. Get his take on this. Her answer would tell us volumes.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Delta,
You can get the same thing from the TAM community as you are getting from this woman. There is an entire forum here dedicated to going through divorce where you can get a multitude of opinions and advice from people who have been there and back.

I think you're wise to let this woman go, maybe until such time as she can demonstrate that she is single. In the mean time, feel free to use us as a sounding board for emotions, ideas, etc.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

sandc said:


> Delta,
> You can get the same thing from the TAM community as you are getting from this woman. There is an entire forum here dedicated to going through divorce where you can get a multitude of opinions and advice from people who have been there and back.
> 
> I think you're wise to let this woman go, maybe until such time as she can demonstrate that she is single. In the mean time, feel free to use us as a sounding board for emotions, ideas, etc.


Thanks, sandc. I guess I was reinventing the wheel, was unaware of forums such as this. I will use it as I can. BTW... my friend and I have tickets to next Sunday's Seahawks/49ers game. Boy, is he gonna be surprised when, at halftime, I tell him we're having an affair.  Thanks, again.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

DeltaBlues said:


> Thanks, sandc. I guess I was reinventing the wheel, was unaware of forums such as this. I will use it as I can. BTW... my friend and I have tickets to next Sunday's Seahawks/49ers game. Boy, is he gonna be surprised when, at halftime, I tell him we're having an affair.  Thanks, again.


Boy are you going to be surprised when he smiles, looks deep into your eyes, and tells you how long he's waited to hear you say those words.

Let us know how it goes.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

sandc said:


> Boy are you going to be surprised when he smiles, looks deep into your eyes, and tells you how long he's waited to hear you say those words.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


He's married. So... in one day on this forum I go from being the "other man" to being the "other woman"? Thanks, TAM! Glad I popped in!


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Technically you're still the OM but I don't want to pick nits.

You're welcome! It's all part of the service.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Not anymore.
Thank you all for your help.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> She could be lying her ass off,but I am going with she is an adult and can make her own decisions without a FBI background check.If her friendship is helping him get through something then go with it.


yaya...

and then we get to meet her husband on here...

cos *'that's the right picture'... *


:wtf:


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't see a problem with it.

She's a female friend who you confide in.

The two of you both benefit from your friendship as you're both going through difficult times.

Don't let guilt destroy a good friendship.

Besides there's no guarantee your marriage is going to survive, you just might need her.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

all I'm sayin' if both spouses def know...and are ok with it...and it's all in the up and up...but if there's the sneaking around...hiding texts...sneaking for drinks etc....
that kind of thing...i dunno man... problems...looks wrong...I sure sht wouldn't be going for it with my husband...ever.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

You answered your own question when you said you were looking for a Sounding Broad. Nice Freudian slip. 

Time to leave the anonymous married woman you picked up online alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

The Sounding Broad was not a Freudian Slip. I sought a third-party FEMALE to give me, hopefully, an objective take on issues involving the two women in my life: my wife and grown daughter. The Sounding Broad did just that. I, in turn, provided - so she says - helpful insights and outlets to her problems. The problem is I am separated and she is married. I told her that we were allowing each other to avoid our hard work: mine, to find my new footing; her's to fix or figure out her marital problems. Those are our individual burdens to bear. I told her last night that we have to stop communicating, that were were enabling each other's avoidance. It was sad and, for me personally, a little unnerving and scary. The very reason I solicited a stranger's opinions is that I have a very small circle. By circumstance and, now, habit I am rather private and alone. And in letting her go, I feel utterly that. Nevertheless, I know it is the right thing and I am proud that I brought myself to do it.


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## timeforpain (Apr 29, 2012)

I am married (headed for divorce now) and I have had a single female work colleague as a close friend for the last 10 years. We go to lunch once a week, I spent the night at her house after I had my vasectomy (the one night of my life you could be SURE I wasn't messing around, amiright?). She knows all the ugly details of my upcoming divorce.

But we are just friends. It is possible for two heterosexual opposite-sex humans to be just friends. She is like my sister.... a great person, but there is no sexual attraction between us and there never will be.

I think it's completely fine to have close friends of both genders as long as you're not playing games (eg, pretending you're friends when there is more going on).


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

I sure wish my stbxw's OM had come here and asked the question you just did. Just sayin. 

If you need a sounding board, get a female IC. Go to a support group. Don't like your IC? No progress? Find another one!

Leave married women alone. Unless it's a double date type thing and all parties are involved. PERIOD.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Was rather ignorant to the options at the time, zillard. Still just learning. Don't even know the acronyms. But, yes, I plan on utilizing resources here at this site. I advised her to do similarly. Like I said, much as we like to think it, we're really not that special, our problems aren't unique. If we're doing it, its been done. And nowadays those who've done or are doing the same thing are able to share their experiences and lessons online. We each don't have to invent our own wheels. We can use ones that are already in place. Take care.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I like what I'm reading here, DB.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> Was rather ignorant to the options at the time, zillard. Still just learning. Don't even know the acronyms. But, yes, I plan on utilizing resources here at this site. I advised her to do similarly. Like I said, much as we like to think it, we're really not that special, our problems aren't unique. If we're doing it, its been done. And nowadays those who've done or are doing the same thing are able to share their experiences and lessons online. We each don't have to invent our own wheels. We can use ones that are already in place. Take care.


Yes. And just the fact that you DID come here shows that you a decent person with empathy. Kudos for that!


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

And I suppose I need to update with a mea culpa. Not how I would choose to start off here.

So... by way of breaking off our talks, I sent her a long email. I thanked her for the time she had spent listening to my problems and told her what a help that had been to me. Both in forcing me to articulate my thoughts and in providing an objective commentary on my various issues. But, I told her, she had issues with her husband to deal with and they should do that, just the two of them.

After getting the email, she called me and we went through it again. Said sad goodbyes, warm best wishes.

A couple of days later I got an email from her: she has dealt with so much loss over the past several months (she has) and she doesn't want to lose this, too, now. She said she told her husband about my email to quit and they had a long talk about what she gets from our friendship. As I said, she has suffered several body-blow type losses since we've been talking. I think writing things out - be it email or chat - has helped her, us, process and understand the multitude of things that we both happen to be enduring right now.

She says our online talks have, actually, helped her and her husband. They have allowed her a process to think things through, to articulate things so that she can, then, express them accurately to her husband. Rather than just blowing up inarticulately. She claims this had led them to more open, honest, discussions than they were having otherwise.

She says her husband does not want her to lose the outlet.

I mentioned it earlier, but I should elaborate on this point: there is nothing sexual, no sexual chemistry even, between us. I have no ulterior motives in that respect and she KNOWS it. It has long since been understood between us. I suppose I should also mention that I am 15 years older than she. When we first "met" I told her that she was too young (I hoped for someone closer my age who might have a kid in a similar age/stage). She said, "that's not fair". Well... in the email I meant to be goodbye, I told her I stood corrected on that point. Despite our age difference, she has been every bit my intellectual and emotional equal. And, although I don't know if it's a reason for lack of sexual attraction, the age difference has helped to illuminate some of the issues I have with my daughter. For her (and her Dad passed away not too awful long ago), I think she benefits from hearing a Father's thoughts on his daughter.

We have been able to discuss a lot of things that weigh upon us at time.

Anyway, you're probably rolling your eyes, but here's where I left it. Because I am REALLY torn on this. I told her to show the email she sent me to her husband. If he still favors her talking with me, I might be open to it. I have to think about it, too, though. I told her to get back to me after New Year's. Let him think about it that long, let me think about it that long.

I suppose we will see.

I also suppose you will proceed to castigate me thoroughly. I can see the angle. I can only say this: she is a deep, caring, and - right now - hurting soul. (she would probably say the same about me). My separation issues aside, I have a hard time not helping someone, if I can.

Anyway, I do not want to get off on a dishonest foot here on this board. I came on, solicited your advice, considered it and acted with - thought - settled intent. It's not that settled, though, apparently. And beings how my previous posts implied it was, I needed to post a mea culpa kind of update. Ugh.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Just the fact that both of you are having so much trouble letting each other go proves that there is an emotional connection between you that is more than just friends. 

If this continues it is highly probable that it will escalate. If her husband is ok with it, you should be hearing that from HIM, not through her.

And she is not your's to "fix". 

Right now I'm going through a divorce because my stbxw is more worried about losing her "friend" than she is about losing her husband and daughter. These things progress quickly and CREATE problems in the marriage because the involved spouse rewrites history in order to alleviate guilt and emotionally detaches from the other spouse due to the emotional attachment to the 3rd party. 

*Every second her connection with you grows, the connection she has to her husband shrinks. *


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> Don't even know the acronyms.


[digress]Do we have a FAQ around here with acronyms listed? If not, we should.[/digress]



Pb.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

I don't think it will escalate physically. I know I probably can't convince anyone of that. I wonder and worry about the emotional dependency aspect, though. We've become, I suppose, somewhat "dependent" on this emotional outlet. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? When the alternative is no outlet? Is the dividing line between "good" and "bad" physicality? I don't know.

I've thought the same thing about hearing it from the husband. Maybe, if she comes back after New Year's and says all is well, I will ask her for her husband's email address and write him. Again, though - as with physicality - with the husband's knowledge and consent is it "good" for us or, ultimately, "bad" for us? I don't know.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Can you speak directly with her husband? Then he can tell you himself exactly where he stands on her confiding in you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> We've become, I suppose, somewhat "dependent" on this emotional outlet. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? When the alternative is no outlet?


The alternative is NOT "no outlet". The alternative is her emotional outlet being her husband and your outlet not being a married woman!


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> I don't think it will escalate physically. I know I probably can't convince anyone of that. I wonder and worry about the emotional dependency aspect, though. We've become, I suppose, somewhat "dependent" on this emotional outlet. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? When the alternative is no outlet?


This sort of thinking is exactly why my wife is currently involved in at three EAs (and at least one of them is likely physical at this point) all at the same time.

I know for a fact that they all started as emotional outlets for the troubles she was having with me at home, and it all went downhill from there.

Right now, no good will come of it if you continue.



Pb.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes. Ideally, Zillard. But that is not the reality of the situation. She and her husband have reached a wall and are not exchanging emotional honesty. She says talking to me has let her find ways to start broaching that wall with her husband. She claims this is, basically, doing what I hoped counseling would do for my wife and I.

I am not trying to "fix" her. In fact, I think the only suggestion or recommendation I've ever given her is to make honest evaluations of her feelings and express them as clearly as she can to the people in her life. To not let pride get in the way of articulating your needs and feelings.

My alternative is, in fact, no outlet. But I don't know that that is a horrible thing for me. I went into winter expecting a long, dark hibernation time. I have personal goals for myself this winter and I continue to work on those. I am probably capable of more sole-minded focus. Hopefully, anyway, should that become required.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Completely agree with PB. My wifes emotional affair also started with her talking to a guy from work about issues she had with me because he could completely understand where she was coming from. He even told me that all she ever talked about with him was me. Problem is, she was not talking to ME about me. Every conversation they had about me robbed me of an opportunity to know how my wife truly felt and also a chance to address it. And then it became physical, which completely surprised them both! But the emotional affair was much more damaging to our marriage than the physical acts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Can you think what would have gotten you and your wife to talk about those things, Zillard? You apparently weren't (and I use "you", this is universal). People - my wife and I - got stuck in out ruts and finally got to the point where we either could not or would not expose ourselves emotionally (much) to the other person. I understand the concept: every minute, every thought, she spends with me, is one less she spends with him). Let's put it in monetary terms. Emotional honesty wise, let's say before she met me she was "spending" $5 a day on her husband. She meets me, opens up to a stranger and starts spending some of her "savings". Say she spends $20 a day on me. Four times more open, more honest, with me than with her husband... what happens if she and I quit communicating? Does she suddenly satrt spending that $20 worth of emotional openness with her husband? Who heretofore she - they! - has grown accustomed to spending $5? It seems once that wall - built of little stored disappointments, resentments, jealousies, etc. that accumulate over time - gets built, it is hard to get through - alone - by just the two people who built the wall. A third party CAN be helpful in that regard. It is why I spent so much time and money on counseling. I contend our online discussions have been far more helpful - for both of us - than counseling was for my wife and I. All that being said and experienced, I understand where you are coming from and, instinctively, align. The whole thing has got me confused. And I am not accustomed to being (at least too) confused. As always, to everyone, thanks for your thoughts and for your time.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> My alternative is, in fact, no outlet.


You can't go see a counselor one your own, without her?

You don't have family -- brothers, sisters, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, or close cousins -- that you could talk to?

You aren't posting here, publicly discussing your troubles with us?

You've willfully created a false dichotomy in order to have an excuse to continue contact with her... Stop deluding yourself. You're sounding just like my wife did when I confronted her about the guys she was schmoozing up.

I hate to say it, but if this isn't already an EA, it's on the brink and hanging by its fingernails.



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> Can you think what would have gotten you and your wife to talk about those things, Zillard? You apparently weren't (and I use "you", this is universal). People - my wife and I - got stuck in out ruts and finally got to the point where we either could not or would not expose ourselves emotionally (much) to the other person. I understand the concept: every minute, every thought, she spends with me, is one less she spends with him). Let's put it in monetary terms. Emotional honesty wise, let's say before she met me she was "spending" $5 a day on her husband. She meets me, opens up to a stranger and starts spending some of her "savings". Say she spends $20 a day on me. Four times more open, more honest, with me than with her husband... what happens if she and I quit communicating? Does she suddenly satrt spending that $20 worth of emotional openness with her husband? Who heretofore she - they! - has grown accustomed to spending $5? It seems once that wall - built of little stored disappointments, resentments, jealousies, etc. that accumulate over time - gets built, it is hard to get through - alone - by just the two people who built the wall. A third party CAN be helpful in that regard. It is why I spent so much time and money on counseling. I contend our online discussions have been far more helpful - for both of us - than counseling was for my wife and I. All that being said and experienced, I understand where you are coming from and, instinctively, align. The whole thing has got me confused. And I am not accustomed to being (at least too) confused.  As always, to everyone, thanks for your thoughts and for your time.


What she spends on her husband is up to her. But if she's spending $20 on you, that's $20 that is no longer in her wallet, so she can NOT spend that on her husband even if she wanted to. 

What would have gotten me and my wife to talk about those things? Counseling together with a 3rd party professional who can not be seen as a threat because he's not withdrawing $20 bills from only one side. Effort not spent elsewhere. Three simple words "Marriage in trouble" or "Let's talk about...". I did the latter when I had concerns. She did not. She ran to someone else.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> I can only say this: she is a deep, caring, and - right now - hurting soul... I have a hard time not helping someone, if I can.





DeltaBlues said:


> I am not trying to "fix" her.


Which is it?


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes, I could go see a counselor on my own, PBar. But, I was extremely disappointed the last time I did that. 

No, my family is not a viable option. 

I have posted here. I started this thread. I only recently learned of this site. 

I know I have other options. I'm not trying for sympathy. 

So... I wonder if the fact that your experience is that things went physical colors you to the whole of the possibilities? I'm not berating you, just exploring the issue... say she and I carried on via email and chat EXACTLY as we have but instead of being an hour away from each other we were 4,000 miles away from each other? What if there was NO chance that we would EVER get together physically (and, yes, I know there's no absolute)... would it be different? It seems to me that the internet opens up a whole new frontier for human interactions and relationships. Duh! But that maybe our ethical predilections haven't evolved as fast as the technology. In the old days, the bored housewife would seek outlet with the milkman, or another of the few men she, physically, came in to contact with. Little wonder when those dalliances became physical. The internet, though, opens up a much broader world and - one would think - a much broader range of possibilities for our relationships and definitions therof. Isn't it possible for two members of the opposite sex - even though married - to meet, interact relatively anonymous (and, btw, I think the relative anonymity GREATLY facilitates openness) and serve a purpose for each other? Does that, necessarily, undermine the parties' "real" relationships? I dunno.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

"helping" and "fixing" are two different things, Zillard.
Listening to her helps her. It doesn't fix her.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Read "Not Just Friends". Affairs have been rapidly evolving and emotional affairs are becoming much more commonplace. They are also much more damaging than physical affairs.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> I understand the concept: every minute, every thought, she spends with me, is one less she spends with him).


No, it's not that. At least, it's not ALL that... not even close.

What it is, is... She begins to think, "This man is there for me and supports me when I have problems. My husband is never there for me. This man understands me. My husband doesn't understand me. This man listens to me. My husband ignores me. This man cares for me. My husband hates me..." and so on. She starts comparing you, who she has limited and very positive contact with, to her husband, who she's been with day-in, day-out for year and years and has seen both the best (which she is quickly forgetting about) and worst (which she is reinforcing) of.

So, it's not just spending time... It spending emotion, which is far, far more important. The positive emotions that she should be sending his way to help rebuild the relationship are instead going toward you. Furthermore, by comparison to you, her negative emotions toward him will only get stronger.

So, to continue your analogy... It's more like she's giving you $20, taking $5 from her husband and then deciding that he owes her $20, because she doesn't have the $20 she gave to you.



DeltaBlues said:


> Four times more open, more honest, with me than with her husband... what happens if she and I quit communicating? Does she suddenly satrt spending that $20 worth of emotional openness with her husband? Who heretofore she - they! - has grown accustomed to spending $5?


Oh, Delta... You didn't.

You know what this sounds like?

It sounds like, "It's okay for her to pay attention to me because she isn't paying attention to him anyway, and even if we stop she it's not like she's going to pay attention to him. Besides, he's used to her not paying attention to him."

That's junior high school logic.



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> "helping" and "fixing" are two different things, Zillard.
> Listening to her helps her. It doesn't fix her.


I thought the reason for all this was to get help with/for your wife and your daughter.

If nothing else, you are losing focus. As is she. 

I had a bad experience with an auto mechanic. Next time my transmission goes out should I turn to craigslist or go find a different PROFESSIONAL?


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

I said I've never suggested or recommended more than "be honest with yourself and others"... I've always told her that it is her job to fix herself, that no one else can do it for her. And that to do that she has to take an honest look at her feelings and motivations. Even though that might be difficult to do. I thought of this specific instance, though, where I did advise her on a particular point... I asked why she and her husband don't seek counseling for their problems. She said she would like to but that she was tired of having to come up with every suggestion and wanted him to bring it up. I told her that she should not let her pride get in the way of taking any steps she thought might help her marriage. That that would be a little burr under her saddle forever if things fell apart. "If only I wasn't too proud to suggest counseling?". You don't want those hindsight "what ifs" to be burrs under your saddle for the rest of your life. I told her that, if she thinks counseling can help them, she should stop being prideful and go ahead and pursue it. If that is the type thing that transpires, is it a horrible thing?


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

I come her and y'all nudge me one way; she nudge's the other. I've thought about giving her this link and letting her read through the discussion.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> You don't want those hindsight "what ifs" to be burrs under your saddle for the rest of your life.


That holds true to you as well. Again, your focus is all on her.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Hell, maybe I can get her husband on here, too. We can have the whole discussion. That would be... different.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> Yes, I could go see a counselor on my own, PBar. But, I was extremely disappointed the last time I did that.


That doesn't necessarily mean that a counselor can't help. It's only means that you haven't found a counselor who's right for you. You might consider "shopping around" to see if you can find a counselor with a style tht's more helpful to you.



DeltaBlues said:


> So... I wonder if the fact that your experience is that things went physical colors you to the whole of the possibilities?


Nope. Not in the slightest.

I know for a fact that once, my wife got drunk at a party and made out with a co-worker. There was no evidence that she ever had anything going with him up until then and no evidence that anything ever happened afterward. This was one of those spur-of-the-moment lapses in judgement that leads to a stupid mistake. It happens.

I also now know for a fact that my wife has had oodles of emotional affairs. A whole string of them... While we were married, while we were dating, before we were dating (I find myself coming to terms with the fact that *I* was one of those EAs, though I didn't realize it at the time), going all the way back to high school and junior high, if I'm to believe half of she's told me about it.

I can look back on our marriage, pick out the roughest parts, and correlate each to a guy that she was just a little to schmoopy with. Each time, when the guy left the picture, for whatever reason, things got better, at least temporarily, and then start getting worse until it happened all over again.

I've never had any evidence whatsoever that any of these relationships ever became physical. Up until recently, I had never even suspected it. I believe that almost all of them never got more physical than "elbow rubbing".

So, if anything, my experience is that EAs can deal so much damage to a relationship WITHOUT becoming physical. In some respects, they deal far more damage to a relationship than a purely physical relationship, are far more dangerous and insidious, because they are so easy to rationalize away.

If you haven't, do a web search on them, and read up... There's tons of material out there on them.



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

How is your daughter? Are you spending this much time on parenting forums?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

My focus, isn't ALL on her, Zillard. Even though thats been the bulk of this conversation. I have my own issues and my own hopes for resolving them. She meets a lot of the same needs for me, though. From the lofty "emotional" to the mundane "diversion". No, I get from it, too. As for the intent of working on issues with my wife and daughter: since posting that ad, wife and I have split up and daughter and I have refound a better footing. (daughter is mine from previous. I got custody of her when I was 24, she was 18 mos.)


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

My daughter and I are good. Six months ago we were having a rough spot. As we occasionally do. We seem to have moved on.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

PBar,

You wrote, "I can look back on our marriage, pick out the roughest parts, and correlate each to a guy that she was just a little to schmoopy with. Each time, when the guy left the picture, for whatever reason, things got better, at least temporarily, and then start getting worse until it happened all over again."

It can be a chicken/egg question, no? Were those "emotional affairs" causes of your marital problems or symptoms of your marital problems?


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Listen, y'all. I gotta sign off. Thanks for the conversation and the thoughts. I'm gonna be weighing it out through New Year's. I appreciate you lending perspective to my problem. Talk to you later.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> My daughter and I are good. Six months ago we were having a rough spot. As we occasionally do. We seem to have moved on.


That's great news! I'm truly glad to hear it DB. I hope you two enjoy your Christmas.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> It can be a chicken/egg question, no? Were those "emotional affairs" causes of your marital problems or symptoms of your marital problems?


Well, sure... We would have a problem. But instead of working with me to solve it, she'd withdraw. She'd confide in a friend. It'd slowly develop into an EA. She'd focus on him. Things would get worse. (When she was dating, this was point she'd trade off for the new guy.) He'd eventually disappear. Things would get better, but quite as good as before. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Most marriages have ups and downs, but this was a cycle we were locked into and at every subsequent cycle the "up" wasn't quite as up as the previous.

So, yeah, it was a symptom. But it was also a bad coping mechanism that she had brought into the marriage, never admitted to, and never bothered to change. And it was also a cause of many of our problems, and a multiplier that turned small problems into big problems.



Pb.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

So, you're not going to just verify what she's saying by asking her husband?


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> She said he has always been OK with it. I find that hard to believe. I would not be fine with it, if it was my wife. Here is my question: Are she and I having an "emotional affair"?


Honestly that you have this in the OP says everything that is needed to me, you already KNOW you are in an EA and are struggling to accept it. So what if it's ok by her H's morals (if she is in fact being honest there), it clearly is not OK by your own morals and you are seeking a way to justify it to yourself.

I have read all your replies and none of them make it seem any different to me. Sorry but it is pretty black and white to me. Sounds like your a decent guy and hence seeking advice and the struggle accepting what you are doing.

I honestly think you both need to suck it up, go NC and get the help you both seek from someone truly impartial.


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## bilbo99 (Feb 16, 2011)

sandc said:


> I would consider any relationship with any person of any sex that takes away time and resources from your family to be an EA.
> 
> Just one man's opinion.


So when I go hunting with my friends on the weekend I am having an EA? Wtf.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

bilbo99 said:


> So when I go hunting with my friends on the weekend I am having an EA? Wtf.


Get a clue and use some common sense. WTF back at you.


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