# this is bad



## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

This might get long. Sorry in advance. I will skip over lots of detail, if not, it would take hours to write it out. Basically, it's an EA that turns into 3 nights of sexting.

Been married for 17yrs. House, two kids. She's been in contact with her 2nd cus for about 1yr or so, maybe longer. I never thought anything of it. 10mths ago, they send msgs via facebook often and post on each others wall. Then it got more and more frequent. Still I think, what - they are family. 

Forward to April, she cuts off communications. I ask what's happen, she indicates, he wants to meet. I think ok, like have a family outing or hook up. She says hook up. Now I'm suspicious. I begin to check phone records on a frequent basis. Nothing going on for about 2mth. Then I see a text sent 1 or 2 times a month after that. I ask why are you sending text. I'm told, just want to say hello. Fast forward to July. A text is sent and 1 week later a friend request is sent via facebook. I'm thinking, this is odd. Did you not block him? Before you know it, it was full blown text for 2 weeks in july. 

On the last week I ask, what's the deal between you to. W tells my body is here with you but my heart is with him. My heart drops. I didn't want to over react, so I play it cool. I tell her to be honest with me and tell me everything.

Big mistake. W wants to be with him, leave me. I ask what about the kids. W indicates, she's not thinking about that at the moment. I wait 1 week to let things cool down. Over the weekend I tell her this is not right, what does she plan to do about it. W tells me, I need time to get him out of my heart. I don't think that have met since he stays 3hrs away but it could have happened.

Fast forward to week 2. Sexting pics begin to fly between both for 3 days. Things W has never said to me, was said to OM. Now I'm panicing, not sure what to do. Part of me wants to get out. Other have wants to work it out. That friday, I'm ready to lawyer up on the up coming monday. But I call the OM and tell him, this is destroying our marriage. OM tells me that W and him talked about it and she assured him that's what she wanted. OM tell me not to lawyer up, not to get divorced, he was going to cut all communications.

Week 3. W acts like everything is cool at home. Like nothing is happening. We begin to talk and voices get louder. I ask way, W tell me, What do you want me to do about it, he's in my heart and I can't get him out. W tells me she can't get him out of her heart and head. W feels pain for being with me but not logically being able to be with him. I ask what are you going to do about it. W tell me give me time, it will pass. That's the only answer I get. That friday, she sends me a text asking to go to happy hour with friends from work. She's never asked that in 18yrs. I tell her go right ahead if that's what makes her happy. 

This past weekend I take W to the beach for a long walk and talk. I tell W this is not working for me and I'm going to get a divorce. W tells me she doesn't want one. To give her one more chance. That she's human and she made a big mistake. That she was sorry. For me to try and forgive her. I indicate that we do not have a marriage. This has come to 2 people that share money and have sex. Love is not in the picture. W heart is with him and I'm here as a back up. Only for physical staisfaction. I ask, What are you going to do? I don't want to here give me time. W asks me, what do you want me to do? At that moment, I knew that she's not ready to do what ever it takes to make this right. She said, do you want me to disconnect facebook, disconnect my cell phone. What I was looking for was for her to make drastic change. Not ask me what I want.

As the night goes on, we go out late for a talk. The conversation ends with, W saying I cannot force someone who doesn't want to be with, to say with. The idea of D still hurts but I think it may be the only on I have. The main reason is because of the kids. But I don't want to be in a home were I'm not happy. Or looking forward to see the person that has done this to me.

Anyone ever find themself in this situation?

Thanks for listening...


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Protect yourself first and foremost. I would assume the end game is divorce and make sure you are okay financially, as much as you can be. 

Once you start to go forward on your own perhaps she will run off with cousin/lover. But that's already happening anyway.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It sound like you are taking the tough love approach by divoce, but she keeps talking you out of it.
I suggest you expose this affair to family and friends, especially if the OM is M or has a GF. The point is to make the A as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible to continue.

If your wife wants to stay married to you then set up some boundries, like complete NC. 

The tough part of it all is she is in the fog/fantasy land and needs a taste of reality by having her move out, cancel all joint accounts and do a 180.

Again make this A as uncomfortable as possible by distancing your self. Take the kids out more then usual and leave her behind, again giving her a taste of reality.

Hopefuly the taste of the reality of not having the kids 100%, not having money and the taste of her safe and secure husband no longer being around will shake her from the fog.

This has fanasyland writen all over it and with these suggestion and the continued effort to get your D papers *drawn up* might bring her out of the fantasy. I didn't say file d-papers, just have them drawn up. 

Stay strong and look up affairbusters.This A is all fantasy and she hasn't seen the real effect and implications. So go get the support from family and friends, they will also apply some pressure on ending the A. Leave her behind when you spend alot more time with the kids, and protect your finances. Again giving her a taste of reality if she continues with this BS.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

She wants to cake eat. She wants you to be her safe and stable home life, and wants him for the wild, passionate romance.

And she ain't dumb-she knows that this fling will not last, and she still wants you to be there, waiting for her to come back, so that she can pick up where she left off, scot-free.

Until she meets someone else...


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks for the input so far. I have to plan my departure, slowly. Want to make sure all ducks are in a row. Weird how the sex has been great since all of the happened. I'm taking it one step at a time. So far, it's been 2 weeks with zero contact. I believe it will not last forever, but I'm hopeful. All I know is one slip up, just the slightest and it done and over. No second chances. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you.

The way it feels to me. Although it's been very bad how every happened. She's never displayed this behavior before, never. I don't know if it's mid-life crisis or something but I'm giving her the benefit of a doubt. 

If I get a hint that the game is still being played, I'm out.

Any additional suggestion are welcome..


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

this is bad said:


> Thanks for the input so far. I have to plan my departure, slowly. Want to make sure all ducks are in a row. Weird how the sex has been great since all of the happened. I'm taking it one step at a time. So far, it's been 2 weeks with zero contact. I believe it will not last forever, but I'm hopeful. All I know is one slip up, just the slightest and it done and over. No second chances. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you.
> 
> The way it feels to me. Although it's been very bad how every happened. She's never displayed this behavior before, never. I don't know if it's mid-life crisis or something but I'm giving her the benefit of a doubt.
> 
> ...


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You really should let her family know what is going on----that in of itself, will cut them off, as I am sure there will be major family outrage---c'est la vie

Stop letting her go out drinking with her buddies---That could lead to ONS, as you arn't there, and you already know she is prone to cheating on you---If she wants to drink after work, with her friends, it is one drink right after work, and home w/in an hour, and she stays in full availability for you to contact her

As to mistake---she made no mistake---what she did was to make horrible CHOICES, everything she did was planned out, with deceit, and manipulation, topped off with lies

As boundaries, take her off of facebook, and any other social websites, and her cellphone is available to you at all time

Also make sure, she knows if she looks even cross-eyed at another man, D. is immediately on the table.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

At the moment, she has not gone to any happy hour, yet. We'll see this Friday. If W even asks for permission, very close family will know what is going on. For some reason, I have not said anything. I guess, I'm hopefull that things will recover. I must be in denial big time.

I know from a msg send via facebook 3 weeks ago, that cus said he was coming at the end of the month to see her. W said she'll be waiting. I don't know if it's going to happen or not since I spoke to him. We'll see. 

At this time, I'm capturing all calls being made and texts that are send and received. I don't know if another email address is used. But I'm monitoring everything that's going on with the current one. A key logger is also running on the pc along with screen capture. I'll have to get a VAR.

OM is not married. Lives alone. Has been for a long time. The reason given for all of this happening is that he was sad. Sending sad pics and W didn't want him to continue to be sad. W felt it was her job to make him happy. Feeling started to grow more for him. How low.

They connected via facebook. Over 1yr ago. I was watching all msgs going back and forth but it all looked ok. Until this july, after cutting cus out for 3mths, W wanted to reconnect. W couldn't stop thinking about him 24/7.

Then W tells me the text got more heated. Beginning of August, I didn't know this was going on. W tells me the following. OM requested a pic of her but she declined. W was shy, she's never done that before. OM said I have a pic of me but it's perverted. W says send it anyways since your insisting so much. Lots were sent. All of us know what it was. I didn't know at the time that this was going on. That evening W ask me to take a pic of her, I was ok with it. It was a sexy pic. Next thing you know, overnight W sends the pic. I capture the text and the next 2 days it was full blown madness.

This Sunday, while on our long walk. I asked, do you want something different in you future? Are you tired of the current routine? Are you looking for some type of excitment? Silence is all I got. It was a very long pause. I told W, why so quite? Are you trying to find the right words to say? Afraid you might say some thing wrong? After that I said we should get D. W said she didn't want one. That she'll change. 

W asked what can I do to make things better. Get off of facebook, disconnect the new phone and keep the old one. These are things I didn't want to hear. I wanted her to tell me, I'm disconnecting facebook, disconnecting my phone, stop reading horoscope. I would think that if this was important to her, W would do these without asking.

All I know is that marriage is when 2 people love each other. They'll do anything for each other. But now it feels like we are room mates, with benefits, sharing expenses. I don't know how much longer I can go. But I'm trying to get ready little by little.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

TIB, 

I don't think youre in denial. You are fully aware your wife is cheating, and you have used methods to gather overwhelming amounts of evidence. I do think you're currently indecisive about what to do. Why bother to keep waiting to blow this up? You know she is cheating. There is no need to wait for further proof. You have all you need. You know that she is continuing this affair even with you knowing it. At this point, exposing this affair to family may helP snap her back into reality. Or, it could help prevent her from spinning the story against you if you decide to divorce. 

Either way, I think your lack of action, especially when you've already taken initiative to gather evidence, is a huge mistake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

this is bad said:


> W asked what can I do to make things better. Get off of facebook, disconnect the new phone and keep the old one. These are things I didn't want to hear. I wanted her to tell me, I'm disconnecting facebook, disconnecting my phone, stop reading horoscope. I would think that if this was important to her, W would do these without asking.


So you want your wife to be your mind reader? Ain't gonna happen. YOU have to inform her of the steps that she has to voluntarily have to take which are needed to cut her addiction from the OM (other man). Affairs cause some of the same chemical reactions in the brain that illegal drugs cause, and just like with any addiction, the first step is to recognize that ending the use of the drug (contact with the OM) is essential in order to overcome it.

I highly recommend that you buy and have your wife (and you) read the book titled 'Not Just Friends' by Dr Shirley Glass. It will show the two of you how a happily married spouse can fall into an affair by crossing marital boundaries. Hopefully if your wife reads it, will open her eyes that what she is experiencing is not something romantically magical or mysterious in which the OM is her 'soul-mate' type of crap.

If you truly want to continue being married to your wife, then you will not leave it up to chance and do the necessary things on your side to help end her addiction to the OM.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

this is bad said:


> I tell W this is not working for me and I'm going to get a divorce. W tells me she doesn't want one. To give her one more chance. That she's human and she made a big mistake. That she was sorry. For me to try and forgive her.


I wish people here would pay attention to this.

When you say you want to work on the marriage all they do is fence sit and tell you they want out but the minute you tell them YOU want out then all of the sudden BAM! They are all about saving the marriage.


80% of the time it works every time.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

ArmyofJuan said:


> I wish people here would pay attention to this.
> 
> When you say you want to work on the marriage all they do is fence sit and tell you they want out but the minute you tell them YOU want out then all of the sudden BAM! They are all about saving the marriage.
> 
> ...


Indeed it does but it requires a tremendous amount of confidence on the part of the betrayed spouse that he/she will be fine if the marriage does come to an end. 

Nevertheless, most betrayed spouses have doubts that they have not tried everything in their power to help end the affair, then it behooves them to do so before confidently moving on with their lives post-divorce without any regrets.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

I've also gotten counseling from someone I trust very much. And the same was said by that person. But it's been 2 weeks since last contact was made. W tells me I will not persue this any futher. W said, I screwed up bad. 

But my gut tells me, W will say anything to stay. And those feeling are still there for OM. As the days go by, I think my indecision will cause me more harm. Part of me want to get out. Another part want to give W a chance. 

I think the following is happening here. Let me know if I'm wrong. God is not in the center of our marriage. W following the horoscope almost to the letter. I mean, W spends hours and hours on that stuff. Reading all 3 signs. On weekends, at least 10hrs Sat and Sun. I said, lets read the bible together, W says later, not now. I pray and pray that things work out. Honestly, I'm waiting for W to screw up again so I can finally, D. I could be going about this all wrong.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Yes your wife must do the heavy lifting to get back into the mge., show the remorse, be contrite, show love---but you still DO need to lay out boundaries, with ACTIONABLE CONSEQUENCES

Tell her she gets this one 2nd chance----she is to go NC, and stay NC, no matter what

There are many mge., where much closer relatives are shut out, for the sake of the mge.---this is a 2nd cousin---your wife has crossed the line with him, and he is gone----she needs to make sure he stays gone

She wants to stay in the mge----tell her to prove it, and show it.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

TIB,

Actions, not words show she is doing the "heavy lifting" of recovery. It doesnt sound like she is. If you feel that you're waiting for her to contact him, that should tell you all you need to know. Your gut is telling you she is lying, she could be. After all, she is a cheater. I understand your emotional rollercoaster of divorce or not. But I do believe your waiting around will only enable her affair further.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

this is bad said:


> I pray and pray that things work out. Honestly, I'm waiting for W to screw up again so I can finally, D.


Isn't that a contradictory statement?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Sorry but I'm sort of on the other side here. I believe she wants the marriage and you do too, but the two of you have lost your way. You're in pain from her A, and she is in the fog, and now it's a boat adrift that you're waiting to watch crash on the rocky shoreline. Why?

You say you want to give this a chance? Then give it a real chance, take control of yourself, her, and your marriage, and like jnj says, lay out precise, clear boundaries. And get yourselves into MC immediately!! You're not dealing with the 'why', together...

You need to treat her lexactly like you would if you found out she was a drug addict -- *because she IS*. If she had a cocaine addicition, would you threaten divorce but then wait around for her to score more dope and take it? Or would you do everything in your power to prevent her from being ableto acquire it, support her along the way, all the time being aware, wary, and clear that while you are helping her, if she falters again you will pack up and go....? 
She's in the fog, she needs your help to find her way out, and you're counting on the one who was too weak to stay out of the fog to find her way out from the depths of it. 

Just my 2 cents. I don't see a dead marriage yet. Rescue it if you want it, because it won't rescue itself. Be able to look in the mirro if & when you walk away and know you gave it every shot possible to make it work. If at that point she can't or won't or doesn't do everything you require, you can still always go.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm confused about your original post - when she asked to go out with friends from work - was it actually so she could go meet up with him?

You should be worried about this going underground and physical. She needs to know clearly what boundaries you WILL NOT accept her crossing. You need to state them in black&white terms, and you need to monitor her through the fuil transparency she must agree too.

Like others have said - wishing it gets better will not help you. You must be an active participant and strong leader demanding this ends and she works hard at the marriage.

You're not going to win her back by negotiating with her, or by being passive and easily forgiving. She needs to see you are a solid strong man who won't accept being #2 in her heart.

This combined with no contact, and you and her actively working on rebuilding your relationship will reconnect her feelings for her husband, and let the OM fade.

Be vigilant however. There is a high chance they will try taking it underground. So trust your guy. If something doesn't feel right - check up on it that minute. Don't put if off - confront it and deal with it.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Yes it is. I begin to blabber on and on without thinking first. 

I've spoken to two people who have been in a very similar situation. I asked how did you cope with kids involved? There answer, it's cheaper to keep her. How can someone live like that. In my case I care very much for the children. I think that is what is making my decision so difficult.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

this is bad said:


> Any additional suggestion are welcome..


You've already been advised to expose. Why haven't you?

If you tell their family what they are planning, it's a good bet they will be met with a lot of hostility. A big wet blanket on top of all their fantasizing about what life would be like if they could only be together, since they're soul mates and all...

Call his parents, and call her parents. Today.

You just giving up and running to a lawyer is NOT what she needs from you. She needs to see you fighting for her, not rolling over like a doormat. Women need to see their men as strong. You've been anything but. HE, on the other hand, is pursuing what he wants, and damn the consequences. Wow, what a man! Can you see why she's heading down this path? You're being a wimp.

Call their parents.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You are going to have to insist that she never contact him again. Their families are going to have to know why. 

Spend some time learning about what happens when you're in an affair. The PEA chemicals you get are the same as when you're first dating and you're 'in wuv.' They control your thinking, so you can't think clearly, you make rash decisions.

You need to protect her from herself. For your family's sake. Man up and take charge, and insist on No Contact. Only when she has gone without him for a few weeks can she start to go through the withdrawal of the PEA drug. And only then can she begin to see clearly again and make good decisions. INSIST on no contact.

She needs to write him a No Contact letter. She needs to give you access to her phone and computer so you can randomly check to ensure it. She needs to commit to MC with you. She needs to start spending 10-15 hours a week with you without kids and housework - you two need to be dating again so YOU can start getting those PEA chemicals she's currently throwing at OM. This is vital, you HAVE to start spending quality time together so she can start seeing you as a man again, and not just her kids' dad.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

You know, you're right. I am being a wimp. Scared of the whole situation. Concerned about what W might say for tell her mom. Who has lived with us for 18yrs. I was worried about what moms reaction would be. But it must be done. Your not the only one how has said that. If the W doesn't like that, tough cookie. I don't think it could get much worst than it is now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's all a script. Know that. Nearly every wayward says the same things and does the same things.

When you tell her mom and HIS mom(!), your wife is going to go batchit crazy mad at you. She's going to rail at you and blame ALL her troubles on you. You're going to hear things like:
Now you've done it - I WAS going to choose you but now I never will!
I'll never love you again!
I'm going straight to the lawyer!
I'm divorcing you TODAY!
I'm gonna make sure you never see your kids again!
I was considering staying but I could never trust you again!
This is all your fault!
I've never loved you, I was just faking it!
He's better in bed than you any day of the week!
We laugh about you in bed, you know!

Just imagine a 5 year old trying to hurt her parent's feelings - that's what she'll be doing. Ignore it all. Do NOT engage in conversation with her. If she tries, just offer her a cookie (makes no worse sense than the crap she's spewing), tell her you're fighting to save your marriage and family, and walk away.

Just remember: your marriage can survive her anger. It can't 
survive another man.

A good book to explain it all is Surviving An Affair.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Well. Both know at this time. His mom sound like she was concerned. Asked if I wanted her to talk to him. That he's not looking for a long term relationship. OM moves around from job to job a couple times a year. Guess all OM wants to do is play. The only thing I need for her to get from him is his address. So W can send NC letter.

Her mom was in shock. Broke down crying. Could not believe what I was saying to her. Tonight I'll present the wife with what I expect for her to do. Anything other than that, I know she's playing the game and is not serious about the marriage.

I'll tell her that I've told them. We'll see tonight.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good luck. And realize that the ABSOLUTE WORST thing you can do when she blows up at you is crumble under her crying/yelling/pleading/begging. 

KNOW your path: No Contact, marriage counseling, 15 hours a week together in non-kid/work/housework-related things (so you can date again and fall in love again), and transparency on her part until you can trust again.

And you have to be ready to say you will NOT stay married if she remains in contact with him. PERIOD. NO NEGOTIATION ON THAT - please trust me, they cannot.

Tonight will determine the future of the rest of your lives. She NEEDS you to stand strong, FOR her. Remember that.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

I would tell the cousin to stay away from my W-or else.

And she's doing this with her COUSIN?????

My god, man, what kind of woman are you married to?????


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

The ball is in W court. We'll see what happens...


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

How did your laying out boundaries, and consequences go----You


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Well it started with, are you willing to do whatever it takes to make this marriage work? The reply, yes I will do whatever it takes. Ok, here is what needs to happen. No more fb, until things get better. Answer, ok. Need to check cell whenever I want with any hassle, ok. MC right away, ok. This is were everything went bad and I got the answer I was afraid to get.

NC, forever. No hello, merry Christmas, happy birthday, happy thanksgiving, happy new year, happy July 4th. Not even a simple hello. Not even, hi.


Can you you do that for the marriage. Answer, NO. 

Ok, in order for me to believe you are serious, I want you to write a letter of NC and give it to me. I will mail it to him. W said, I don't have the address. I'm getting it from his mom. Tears and more tears. Why did you have to tell her, and so on. I hope your not lieing. Then I say, let's call her now, no don't w says. I explain, I'm very serious, this is no joke what so ever. 

Lastly, I explain. If do not get it by the end of the day Wed, will get a lawyer on Thursday.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

TIB, sorry to hear that. Not even exposure has seemed to crack her. Good luck, stay strong
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

this is bad said:


> NC, forever. No hello, merry Christmas, happy birthday, happy thanksgiving, happy new year, happy July 4th. Not even a simple hello. Not even, hi.
> 
> 
> Can you you do that for the marriage. Answer, NO.


This is were you say "fine, then its over". She is not over the affair and considered how she reacted she won't be for some time.

She needs a reality check. Move forward as if you are going full blast towards a D and tell her to make plans to move out and be tough about it. Hopefully after a couple of months of this (it won't happen overnight) she'll start to wake up to reality.

Until she WANTS to be NC with the OM, you will be in limbo and won't be able to trust her. I'm surprised she didn't just lie and say she would NC the OM but her feelings for him must still be pretty strong which shows she is nowhere near ready to R. You have to take the tough love approach and put your foot down, no negotiating.

What she is doing is very disrespectful to you and she is still trying to defend him. You can't allow yourself to put up with this or you will be seen as a doormat. The only way to pull her towards you now is to try to push her away.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

this is bad said:


> Well it started with, are you willing to do whatever it takes to make this marriage work? The reply, yes I will do whatever it takes...
> 
> NC, forever. No hello, merry Christmas, happy birthday, happy thanksgiving, happy new year, happy July 4th. Not even a simple hello. Not even, hi.
> 
> ...



Good job TIB! An fine example of the concept of 'man-up' in action.

Women don't respect men who are doormats and you certainly proved to your wife that you are no doormat who will allow her to shamelessly emasculate him. Just ask some of the female forum members like Jellybeans, Enchantment, Catherine602, etc.

Keep it up.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds pretty good, actually. Of course she doesn't want to give up talking to him. Like any addict, she thinks she can 'handle' contact and not get sucked back into fullblown addiction. She is wrong.

She is shamed. That's good. Does she know her mom knows? Urge her to talk to her mom. Let her know they don't hate her, they are concerned and just want to talk to her to figure out what happened. She needs to talk to them. She needs to see she can cut it off with him and still be ok with the family. Since they're second cousins, you have a fair chance of ensuring they don't come in contact but, if not, you're going to have to consider moving if you want to save your marriage.

And remember, you MUST see a lawyer on Thursday if she refuses to your list. To do anything BUT that immediately puts you down under her feet in her mind. Just seeing a lawyer doesn't mean you have to complete it. Heck, you can even go all the way through divorce and still end up together. But she MUST see you adamant about NC or your marriage is doomed.

What's going on with him? Have you talked to him? Now might be a good time to give him a call and let him know everyone else knows and are NOT happy.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

I did speak to him 2wks ago. He said not to D. Not to lawye r up. He will stop all contact. Till this day, he's kept his word. Got a msg from W saying I will get the letter tonight. For me to stop telling her family about our problems. She says,I told you the truth. Be a man and face that . Leave my family alone. Well, she has told me how she feels about him the whole time. It's the lack of changing that, that gets me upset. I'll have to wait and see how it view tonight. If my gut tells me this is BS. I'm out. I can't go though this much longer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't let her anger and belittling remarks (be a man) get to you. Just ignore them; address them later in therapy. fwiw, this may become a pattern of hers - to try to demasculate you that way, to get you to back down. Recognize it for what it is.

Honestly, you lucked out. Most waywards, when they find out you exposed, blow up like no other!

And she has to go cold turkey for her feelings for him to die off. It may take a while. But in the meantime, you have to show her that you are a better choice. What are you doing toward that?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

this is bad said:


> Got a msg from W saying I will get the letter tonight. For me to stop telling her family about our problems. She says,I told you the truth. Be a man and face that . Leave my family alone.


Remember, she is now ashamed of herself. In the affair fog, they reason away all obstacles (oh, everyone will be happy for us, it doesn't matter that we're second cousins, they'll just see how happy we are and be ok). 

Now she's seeing the reality, when faced with dealing with her mother's disapproval. Powerful stuff.

She may be shame-filled for quite some time; and it may make her stubborn to NOT give you what you want to hear. 

Ignore her words. Watch her actions. That's all that matters at this point.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

So far, I've told her that I want for you to work this out. I want to got to MC right away so we can start repairing this marriage. She knows I'm not just saying it but I mean it. I have not pushed her away. And I make it clear that it's her decision to make. She know were I stand.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Oh she'll her wish for you to 'be a man' in spades when you divorce her immature a**. Then you will be free to find a real woman to share your life with.


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## Ticonderoga (Jul 21, 2011)

this is bad said:


> That he's not looking for a long term relationship. OM moves around from job to job a couple times a year. Guess all OM wants to do is play.


 This indicates nothing will really come of their relationship and she will get hurt. Have you ever asked her what she is getting out of her relationship with the OM ?? It kind of appears like she is living in fantasy land with this guy.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

W never really indicated what she wanted from the OM. Just wanted to be with him. No contact for 1.5wks. W indicates she will not make any attempt, but that's hard to believe. I'm still hopeful this next step will get us to recovery. Just have to wait and see.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

TIB,

From what you're writing, your wife seems to be a prime candidate to resume contact, if the affair isn't underground already. She does not seem to display any sense of remorse over this, other than getting caught. Lashing out at you for exposure is a result of no longer having her fantasy affair land. Doing a good job so far. I agree with an above post, I do think there is potential to save this. However, I commend you on your willingess to walk away from a cheating spouse. That is an example of self-respect that some BSs in other threads struggle with. 

and as for that "be a man" nonsense. No man would step aside in his marriage willingly and be his Number 2 choice to his adulterous wife. She might change her tune when you speak with a lawyer about options to end the current joke of a marriage and protect yourself. Then she can enjoy her other "real" man.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Some more msg throughout the day. Like the family will know now. It's our business only. The oldest son tells her grandma us crying all morning. Tries to bring up something that I did a very long time ago, its minut compares to this. I just said, you haven't changed yet. What do you plan to do so we can move forward, already? Response, what do you mean? In order to stop this I said lets talk tonight so we can understand each other. Now I wait
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ticonderoga said:


> This indicates nothing will really come of their relationship and she will get hurt. Have you ever asked her what she is getting out of her relationship with the OM ?? It kind of appears like she is living in fantasy land with this guy.


Actually not a bad idea, if you can stand to hear it, to ask her what she saw in him. You NEED to hear it because, whatever it was, she wasn't getting it from you. And THAT is what YOU need to fix.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

this is bad said:


> Some more msg throughout the day. Like the family will know now. It's our business only. The oldest son tells her grandma us crying all morning. Tries to bring up something that I did a very long time ago, its minut compares to this. I just said, you haven't changed yet. What do you plan to do so we can move forward, already? Response, what do you mean? In order to stop this I said lets talk tonight so we can understand each other. Now I wait
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 It's going to take a while for her shame to wash over. Just step back and let it. Do NOT engage with her right now, nor tonight! All you will get is why IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT. She's scrambling right now to (1) continue to get her fix of OM, (2) shake off the guilt so it's on YOUR shoulders and not hers, (3) figure out how to look her mom and others in the eye again.

NONE of this is your problem. She has to own it. She has to hit rock bottom, she has to fear losing you, she has to acknowledge what she did is wrong. Without all that, she'll just wait and cheat again.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

In fighting an affair, Turnera is one who I would want in my corner.

Listen to her, her advice is pure gold.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

The answer given so far was. OM was lonely and sad all the time. While sending msgs back and forth, feelings started to grow. Before W knew it W feel in love with OM. Story hash't changed since the end of July. It took them about 8 -10mths for all of this to happen. My,question is always how can this happen? I guess he brainwashed me or something. The day W told me, which was at the end of July. If I could hit delete and make this go away I would. But now I'm in this big mess I created. Then shortly afterwards, things got crazy. My part is taking a provocative pic of her that was late sent to OM. After that pic, all hello broke loose. I still hope we can fix this. Tonight will depend on her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

this is bad said:


> Thanks for the input so far. I have to plan my departure, slowly. Want to make sure all ducks are in a row. Weird how the sex has been great since all of the happened. I'm taking it one step at a time. So far, it's been 2 weeks with zero contact. I believe it will not last forever, but I'm hopeful. All I know is one slip up, just the slightest and it done and over. No second chances. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you.
> 
> The way it feels to me. Although it's been very bad how every happened. She's never displayed this behavior before, never. I don't know if it's mid-life crisis or something but I'm giving her the benefit of a doubt.
> 
> ...


I hear you. In the same boat right now. I almost feel like I am in some kind of void. Not sure how it will all turn out.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

We'll I think it's time to move on. Moments ago, W say she is not writing the letter. Because it's embarrassing. Really I say. You told me you would do anything to work on this marriage. W indicates she's agreed to work on all other terms but that. W is holding an event against me that happened many years ago that included me and porn. It was a dark time in my life but I got over it. She did forgive me and trusted in me to get over it.

Now W is saying I forgave you that time. You must do the same for me and respect me. W say I didn't tell any one in the family or make you write a letter. I say, I would have done whatever and I mean whatever to stay in our marriage. 

I don't know why in her mind I'm asking for too much. I told her I'll think about it, but that's to by time for the next step. Lawyer. I knew in me that she would not do it. But now I have the proof I needed.

I hope she changes her mind, but I'm not living in this hell hole of a nightmare any longer. And if D kills me financially, then I'll be poor and happy than being a fake relationship. 

She looked and sound very, extreamly convincing. She said believe in her, she's not going to make contact. For me to trust her. Trusting her so far go me to this point. My problem is that I do not have OM address at this time. I'm calling OM mom to see if she could give it to me. I'm might call OM directly and see if he really cares enough to give it to me himself. At least if the letter is written, I know W was willing to make it work. W is only willing to go to NC asap. Would a MC request the same?

Let see what happen. Thanks to everyone who's posted. You've all been great help. 

Slightly hopeful yet.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

She wants to sound convincing so she can continue her affair without you monitoring her. TIB, be very careful in any further contact involving the OM. He is a liar - nothing he says (or your wife, currently) should be believed. If you try to work something out with him (even his family) could lead you into more lies, manipulation and eventual devastation when you discover more lies. 

As for your wife, her refusal to go No Contact is really the most honest thing she has probably said to you in this entire mess. I think it tells you all you need to know. 

However, with exposure, and you contacting a lawyer, and hopefully her family giving her a verbal smackdown, it could shake her up and bring her out of this fog of hers. I'd say keep slight hope, but I think you're making the right decision by speaking to a lawyer tomorrow.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

this is bad said:


> Well it started with, are you willing to do whatever it takes to make this marriage work? The reply, yes I will do whatever it takes. Ok, here is what needs to happen. No more fb, until things get better. Answer, ok. Need to check cell whenever I want with any hassle, ok. MC right away, ok. This is were everything went bad and I got the answer I was afraid to get.
> 
> NC, forever. No hello, merry Christmas, happy birthday, happy thanksgiving, happy new year, happy July 4th. Not even a simple hello. Not even, hi.
> 
> ...


You handled this the way you are supposed to. Well done. In bold tells you so much.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would give you only ONE possible other way out for this: for her to call him IN YOUR PRESENCE - WITHOUT giving her an opportunity to call ahead of time and warn him - and tell him she will never ever contact him again and to tell him to never contact her again.

You CAN do a No Contact letter by phone - but only if she has had no advance warning. I would give her that option and that option only. And then to the lawyer if she refuses.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

the only thing W does is bring up the past. how W forgave me. I insisted this is totally different. W had desire for OM and it was both ways. 

Before going to bed, W will have one very last chance. If W indicates she will not do it for the marriage. Oh well. W question is why do she need to send this letter. I told her, to prove to me she is willing to save this marriage. That simple. But this doesn't seem to compute to W.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

While not minimizing the pain women experience when a husband is addicted to porn, the difference is that you were not engaging on a one on one with the females you were viewing and coming close to having actual sex with them. Furthermore, you stopped your porn viewing and committed not to engage in it anymore, on the other hand she has yet to prove that she will abide by NC with the OM. The NC letter is to inform the OM to never again contact her, NEVER. Without it he will continue to reach out to her and she'll have the feable excuse that it was he and not she that made contact so its not her fault. This will give her the excuse to continue with the EA which in time will become a full blown affair.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

This thread makes me wonder about the effectiveness of a NC letter. If marriage vows are not strong enough to prevent a spouse from cheating, then I don't necessarily believe the finality of a NC letter.

However, much like marriage counseling, if a disloyal spouse is willing to do everything to save the marriage, then I'd say a NC letter is appropriate in the scheme of things.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The NC letter is a psychological step. One that often makes a HUGE difference in a cheater's outlook on what happened.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

this is bad said:


> the only thing W does is bring up the past. how W forgave me. I insisted this is totally different. W had desire for OM and it was both ways.
> 
> Before going to bed, W will have one very last chance. If W indicates she will not do it for the marriage. Oh well. W question is why do she need to send this letter. I told her, to prove to me she is willing to save this marriage. That simple. But this doesn't seem to compute to W.


 SHE IS TESTING YOU. 

And if you back down now, you FAIL. She wins. She gets to cheat whenever she wants.

She's bringing up the porn because she's grasping at straws to find one way, ANY way, that she can keep getting her fix, her heroin, of OM. And if beating you down does the trick, she will not hesitate.

The ONLY solution here is for you to be ROCK SOLID on not accepting anything less than your core requirements.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Whip Morgan said:


> This thread makes me wonder about the effectiveness of a NC letter. If marriage vows are not strong enough to prevent a spouse from cheating, then I don't necessarily believe the finality of a NC letter.


The NC letter defines the new marital barrier between the unfaithful wife and the OM. It is as effective as the resolve of the unfaithful wife to abide by it and to immediately inform her husband of any attempts by the OM to violate the terms of it. Without that declaration of a marital barrier, the marriage doesn't stand a chance of reconciliation.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

I understand, better now, the purpose as defining boundaries for a DS to follow. However, in this case, and others with similarly unremorseful cheating spouses who seek to continue the affairs, I think it's more just apiece of paper,which they will simply ignore. Similar to MC with a spouse who is unremorseful and cheating- ineffective. For a remorseful spouse willing to do the "heavy lifting", then I think it's more effective as part of the process.

As for it's intent to define boundaries, for the unremorseful cheater, I have a clearer picture now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He said she WAS remorseful. She just didn't want to completely let go of OM. The NC letter can be a big effector for that.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

this is bad said:


> the only thing W does is bring up the past. how W forgave me. I insisted this is totally different. W had desire for OM and it was both ways.
> 
> Before going to bed, W will have one very last chance. If W indicates she will not do it for the marriage. Oh well. W question is why do she need to send this letter. I told her, to prove to me she is willing to save this marriage. That simple. But this doesn't seem to compute to W.


Wait a minute. She forgave you about porn!? And that equates to banging someoen else?

Sorry folks I can respect that some folks have a real thing about porn and that is fine. BUT, in no way is it in the same discussion with having a relationship with someone or having sex with them. Different planet altogether.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

She asked for forgiveness again. To give her one more change. She's willing to do anything but send the letter. For me to trust her and believe in her. I said, if we go to MC and stop FB and check your email and all accounts. 

If you slip up just one time, I'm out. No warning, no nothing. She accepts these terms. She said the letter will not accomplish anything. That he will not look for her any more because I spoke to his mom. 

He's removed other family members from my W side from FB. She currently ashamed and embarrassed, seems sincere. She want to go to counceling right away. 

I get the feeling this is all bull and it will come around to bite me in the butt. I have my reservations big time.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Bringing up an issue that you have both gotten through successfully - you changed to make her happy and she accepted and forgave you. It is over and done. She brings it up as a diversionary device. Don't get side tracked by a resolved issue. She brings it up to make you feel guilty and from what you said she was successful. You have nothing to be guilty about - you changed for her and now she is using a good thing to beat you over the head. I think when she makes these diversionary tactics you should ignore them and stay on task. 

I have a sinking feeling that you will not follow through. Irony know why maybe it is because you keep giving her chances. I am not saying you have to divorce but you have to be willing to leave her if she crosses the line. You must show her you mean it. What may happen is that when she sees you are serious she may come around. There again there can be no half stepping she is either in or out. Please value your self you are deserving of a wife who loves and respects you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Why don't you send it for her. If she redacts it with him, you have your answer.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good idea. Send it yourself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And cc his mother and her mother.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

My problem now is not having OM address. OM mom is not picking up cell phone. Left message, no response. Planning to call OM directly. This is were I'm stuck.

I could try to force W to call OM to get address. Not sure how that will work out. She continues to say that his mom told OM to cut all communications but I'm not too sure. W say she could never see her face again. W has a hard time seeing her mom. 

I hope to get a call back tomorrow and make W write that letter. Even if I watch W like a hawk, how can I make certain it doesn't go underground. That's the part that gets me. I hope going to MC asap could get things started. She understands one screw up and things will never be the same.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

So your saying email it to OM mom?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He's your second cousin by marriage. SURELY your MIL can get his phone number or address.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

this is bad said:


> So your saying email it to OM mom?


 I would email him and copy his mom and her mom, to let THEM know that she is choosing No Contact.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

The only contact is via text msg from W's phone. I'll see if OM mom can provide me with email at least.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You know what? Scratch that. You TOLD her you had to have a NC letter from HER to show that she chooses you. If she cannot overcome her shame to send him the letter, that shows that she chooses him over you. 

You CANNOT stay in such a marriage.

Him...or you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

this is bad said:


> The only contact is via text msg from W's phone. I'll see if OM mom can provide me


That's ridiculous. He's your freakin' cousin. You telling me her family doesn't know where each other lives?


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

As much as I want to believe her, I can't. She should be able to get the address from him by calling him directly. She's not willing because of the shame. That part is killing her. I can only offer, write the letter or D. Your choice. She just doesn't want to send the letter. Her sister also asked what that is going to accomplish.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

TIB, I think you need to make a firm stand here. So far I believe you've been doing well otherwise. If she really would want to work on this, she'd stop throwing tantrums about this and do it. 

It is possible she is feeling a flood of negative emotions over this whole thing being exposed (which was the right call) to family. Her brain could be going in a million different directions. Perhaps giving it a day for things to settle could help convince her to see is necessary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Also, be wary of family. As wrong as your wayward wife is, be fully prepared for family to support her no matter what.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Agreed.

Give her one day to think about it. Then carry on with your consequences. It's the #1 best way I've ever seen to get WWs to cave and realize they can't eat cake.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

I know that the exposure is really getting to her. W not talking much about it. Just indicates she's sorry and to trust her. Not being able to face members of the family that know..


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

TIB remind your wife that her betrayal destroyed the trust you had for her and that only her actions can rebuild it.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

We've been talking. I have made those comments this evening. I'm letting the letter topic simmer at the moment. W indicates she is ready to make this marriage work. Assures me she will not disappoint me ever again. To let her prove herself to me. I still have my reservations. I'm afraid that this could happen again.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

this is bad said:


> I'm letting the letter topic simmer at the moment. W indicates she is ready to make this marriage work. Assures me she will not disappoint me ever again. To let her prove herself to me. I still have my reservations. I'm afraid that this could happen again.


Her words of reassurance are meaningless, you know that. One action that would speak volumes is her giving that NC letter to the OM (in person with you by her side). But it's your decision, I just hope you chose wisely.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

this is bad said:


> As much as I want to believe her, I can't. She should be able to get the address from him by calling him directly. She's not willing because of the shame. That part is killing her. I can only offer, write the letter or D. Your choice. She just doesn't want to send the letter. Her sister also asked what that is going to accomplish.


She should not be contacting him at all dude. NC.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Today, I've indicated that a NC letter needs to be sent. She's still asking me to trust her. I still don't know how. W says, I've let you down, just believe in me, I will do all that's needed to work on this marriage. I'm seeking counsel. Maybe then W will see I'm serious. Also going to MC asap, that may help also.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm confused- is she not agreeing to NC or just not agreeing to send the OM a NC letter?

if it's the latter, how about an alternative? Have her sign a NC agreement, stating that she will never contact the OM again and if OM attempts to contact her she must ignore it and inform you about it right away. Any infringement of this NC will result in immediate divorce.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

this is bad said:


> Today, I've indicated that a NC letter needs to be sent. She's still asking me to trust her. I still don't know how. W says, I've let you down, just believe in me, I will do all that's needed to work on this marriage. I'm seeking counsel. Maybe then W will see I'm serious. Also going to MC asap, that may help also.


I don't understand what her reticence is about sending OM a NC letter. 

I can see her fear of contacting her MOM, or OM's mom - THAT would include shame. 

Sending OM a NC letter? There IS no shame in that if she truly chooses you - she is gaslighting you, dude. 

Try what I said - go home, pick up the phone, dial his number, and hand her the phone and say 'Tell him RIGHT NOW to never contact you again.' If she refuses, you know what to do.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

It is possible to send from e-mail to a cell phone.

No matter how sincere a person sounds. The only true sincerity is when they HAPPILY AND WILLINGLY do the actions that you require (nc letter, sharing passwords, transparency). In other words, if she really wants to save her marriage, she would be thrilled that there is an action she can take that the enables that.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

She is happily and willingly do stop fb, I might have her deactivate the account. She's agreed to transparency in everything. Access to everything. She fears contacting OM mom because of shame. I will use turner's advice. I know the OM will not answer, he's cut all contact. But it's the attempt that I want to see. Is she willing to do it. If he does and no answer, then I'll have her send email VIA text. Will have to wait for this evening. Going to search for same letters. Thanks everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you explained to her that sending the NC isn't just about telling the guy not to contact her. It's also very much an act of her meeting her shame face to face and through the act and words of the NC saying that she is accepting that the selfish attack against the marriage and her husbands soul, is her fault and something she is remorseful for.

It is a act of growth and commitment on her part to start taking responsibility.

For her not to do it - well that show's that she is not ready to face and accept responsibility and she is still trying to duck away from dealing with her actions.

TIB - I worry that if you let her shy away from doing it, she'll learn that other things that are hard work in saving the marriage are also negotiable.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good point. She may just be looking at it as YOUR way of shaming her. Explain the psychological aspect of it, of the act physically and mentally cutting off the affair. Show her that you're not doing it to harm her, but rather to help the marriage.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Your wife is still fighting you

She is still being selfish----she must become SELFLESS

The reason she sends the letter is if for no other reason, it is a symbol---it says to the world, I am fully invested in my mge., and I WILL DO ANYTHING TO MAKE IT WORK

Your wife obviously will not do ANYTHING to make it work---she refuses to send a letter telling her lover from her OWN MOUTH---I want my mge., to work, leave me alone, stay away from me

Your wife at this point is doing NOTHING to make the mge work---agreeing to no facebook, and a transparent phone---SO WHAT---she refuses the symolism of telling the lover I am going to work on my mge., and be a faithful wife from this moment on

No letter---tell her to find herself, an atty., to defend a D., action---leave the same message with every member of her family---if she doesn't like it---tooooo bad---she is the one refusing to right her wrongs---she is the one who will sacrifice her kids, to split homes, SHE IS NOT A REMORSEFUL, DO ANYTHING TO MAKE THIS MGE. WORK, wife at this time.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

We spoke once today. W wants to go out to dinner alone. I said good we could talk one last time. No letter, seeing lawyer on Monday. Enough with these games. I'm too tired. As a final chance I'm willing to see MC asap. But I don't know if that will help. It'll be funny if the MC tells her about NC letter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

this is bad said:


> It'll be funny if the MC tells her about NC letter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


don't count on it
You really have to shop MC's IMO to find the right one


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

morituri said:


> Isn't that a contradictory statement?


It maybe but I did the same thing. I think it's just hoping for the best but preparing for the worst kinda thing. Kind of preparing your heart in a weird way. I don't really know how to explain it but I understand it.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

F-102 said:


> I would tell the cousin to stay away from my W-or else.
> 
> And she's doing this with her COUSIN?????
> 
> My god, man, what kind of woman are you married to?????


Was thinking the same. You might not want to be with this woman if she could even think of her cousin this way. JUST NASTY!!!!!


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

this is bad said:


> I did speak to him 2wks ago. He said not to D. Not to lawye r up. He will stop all contact. Till this day, he's kept his word. Got a msg from W saying I will get the letter tonight. For me to stop telling her family about our problems. She says,I told you the truth. Be a man and face that . Leave my family alone. Well, she has told me how she feels about him the whole time. It's the lack of changing that, that gets me upset. I'll have to wait and see how it view tonight. If my gut tells me this is BS. I'm out. I can't go though this much longer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The CUZ/OM is saying don't D or get a Lawyer because he knows good and well he does not want anything more from her than A$$. He does not want her looking to help to be ther provider. She won't allow her self to see that though and the gall of her telling you to BE A MAN, is she serious. A affair with a cousin and she feels like she has room to toss insults. If she didn't want her family to find out she should have not been having a affair of any kind let alone with a family member. Tell her to be more of a respectable woman and not have and affair especially with family...:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead: JUST NASTY!


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

turnera said:


> The NC letter is a psychological step. One that often makes a HUGE difference in a cheater's outlook on what happened.


True but only if they are WILLING to do it without being forced right. Just like TIB I asked my H repeatedly as he has not done it and flate out refused as well then said ok I will and still nothing. Even if they did it at this point the fact that they really don't want to do it means that they will continue right?

At least that is what I feel. 
She doesn't want to because it's embarassing....REALLY. SO carrying on like this isn't, wanting to be in an intimate relationship with a family memeber isn't. Man she's special. Just do whats best for you and your kids TIB.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Sometimes I get the feeling that since W know OM doesn't want contact. She better sticks with me instead. Better to have something than loosing everything. Like a backup plan to go to. Although W doesn't say, this is what it feels like. I want to believe W wants to really work this out but I have an internal battle going on inside. The person that is helping me cope tells me to go to 1 MC and see if there is really and hope. This has me confuse with the NC letter. I would still like to see her write the letter, although I don't have the address. I would email it instead. Just the fact that it is written will make me feel better. No,writing it gives me the feeling that she not being serious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

this is bad said:


> Just the fact that it is written will make me feel better. No,writing it gives me the feeling that she not being serious.


FWIW, my wife made lots of changes and did lots of things to make it look like she wanted to work on the marriage. The NC letter was the one thing she wouldn't do. Ends up, the reason was that there was still contact and she truly had no intention of ending it. If she is refusing it, you are probably right in that her heart isn't in the marriage.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

this is bad said:


> Sometimes I get the feeling that since W know OM doesn't want contact. She better sticks with me instead. Better to have something than loosing everything. Like a backup plan to go to. Although W doesn't say, this is what it feels like. I want to believe W wants to really work this out but I have an internal battle going on inside. The person that is helping me cope tells me to go to 1 MC and see if there is really and hope. This has me confuse with the NC letter. I would still like to see her write the letter, although I don't have the address. I would email it instead. Just the fact that it is written will make me feel better. No,writing it gives me the feeling that she not being serious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lets see if I can help with this feeling. If she would have agreed right away. If she would have just come to you and told you before you found out or even asked about it then you could believe wholeheartly that it is you she wants and that she truly wants to work on getting your marriage on track. However because she keeps putting things off, not following through with she orginally said about the NC, she wants him and not concern about the kids, the fact that she wants you to BE A MAN as she says and stop telling your problems to everyone in order to shed light on her discreations. If only she would give more thought and concederation for what you need and do whatever it takes with out pause then you can try to start trusting that she is being real with you and she is being serious.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Seems like W had too much pride. And the shame of the NC will hurt that. Very sad
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Spoke about it. Still resisting the NC letter. She's think's telling OM mom and her mom was not the right thing to do. That I have bad intentions with the letter. Conversation end with trying to trust her, that she will avoid all contact for life. Lastly, W tell me she cannot force any that doesn't want to be with her to be with her. It got tense...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Well she's clearly showing her priorities and colors here:

#1 - avoiding personal shame
#2 - avoiding telling OM to stay away
#3 - beginning to make it up to you

She has to understand that there is deep shame is what she chose to do. Very deep. There is also very deep emotional betrayal and hurt. Currently you her husband are dealing with the emotional hurt and betrayal, while she is refusing to face the shame.

As for trust - doesn't she get that currently trust in her has been destroyed ?


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Hate to say it, but she kind of told you where she is at when she wouldn't do the NC with the Cuz/OM.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

TIB,

I assume that she thought exposure was a bad idea because she is ashamed that people now know she is a cheater. Not only did she betray you, but did so with someone within her family. Certainly humiliating. 

I think you did the right thing by exposure. It could have been the wakeup call she needed. However, I think her refusal to send a NC letter and simply demanding you to trust her is not a sign that she wants to reconcile. 

This is still relatively fresh. With time, the fog could clear and she could see how destructive her behaviors are. I do believe there is a chance to recover this. However, her current behaviors are attempts to blame you and sweep this under the rug. Not aspects of recovery, which she claims to want. I think she is most likely to attempt contact again. It will be tough for you to determine if she is being genuine in trying at this. So far, I think you know she is not. But time will tell. Stay strong.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

W still brings up that she was honest with me about the whole thing. About the feelings she had. And even after I was told, it went further. Although, I know I took the pic that got her going on the second day. 

It got heated when I told her that I felt like her backup. Since the OM stopped making contact, I'm the one to go to now. 

W is upset over the fact that I told them even after I agreed to keep this between us. 

W still wants to work on marriage. go to mc, transparency, no social sites. The nc is what is bothering me most. W said she'll tell me right away if contact is made and if I find out that any contact was made without her telling she understands D will come.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

this is bad said:


> . Conversation end with trying to trust her.




Wow that's delusional, she blew that right to be trusted until she can prove otherwise
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

this is bad said:


> W still brings up that she was honest with me about the whole thing. About the feelings she had. And even after I was told, it went further. Although, I know I took the pic that got her going on the second day.
> 
> W is upset over the fact that I told them even after I agreed to keep this between us.
> 
> W still wants to work on marriage. go to mc, transparency, no social sites. The nc is what is bothering me most. W she'll tell me right away if contact is made and if I find out that any contact was made without her telling she understands D will come.


She says she wants to. This is a hard part, determining if she is being truthful or trying to blow some serious smoke, in order to continue the affair. Again, do not trust that the OM will not contact her and simply go away. 

She refuses to send a No Contact letter. She knows its among the most important things in order for you to continue. You, the man she married. It seems to me that she is continuing to place the OM above you. 

Was she continuing the affair after you discovered it, or am I mistaken in that? I wasn't sure if I read that part correctly.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Everything was FB and text. No physical contact. W was always were she was suppose to be. Never alone, always with the kids or family member. W does not hang out or talk with friends or text with them.

It was when I found out the they were friends again on FB that I questioned what's going on. That's when she told me how she felt about the OM. That she could not stop thinking about him. They text very little for that week but I was able to read them. It was hurtful, thinking about you Can't wait to meet you and so on. The second week, it was a texting nightmare for me. Saw things I thougt I would never see. At the end of the week W said what she did was wrong and was sorry for her behavior. She hopes that one day I can forgive her. That's when I began to panic and wasn't sure what to do. W asked to give her one more chance. That was the only time in 16+ yrs that this has happened. She has said and shown regret and says it was a mistake. Maybe I'm too PO to see it.

It was the OM with sad stories and sending sad pics that over a long time she felt sorry for. Before she know it, she had feelings for him. W always told me from the day one that if she could delete everything she would. Now we find ourselves in this situation.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

W said she'll tell me right away if contact is made and if I find out that any contact was made without her telling she understands D will come.[/QUOTE]

And what, pray tell, makes you think she is going to inform you?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

this is bad said:


> Today, I've indicated that a NC letter needs to be sent. *She's still asking me to trust her. *I still don't know how. W says, I've let you down, just believe in me, I will do all that's needed to work on this marriage. I'm seeking counsel. Maybe then W will see I'm serious. Also going to MC asap, that may help also.


NFW


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm tired of all of this already. Unless a miracle happen between now and monday. I hoping to go to at least 1 MC together. To see if there is at least hope for real change. At this point, I don't think so. But just what if, 1 MC visit would help.

I just feel very bad for the kids. They are the ones that will suffer most. 

The way I look at it, better to live happy and D, that living with a person you don't know you could ever trust again.

I've gotten all the advise I can get. The choice is ultimately mine to make. Which every that is, I'm willing to live with it.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

TIB, F102 has a good point. She knows that any further contact will result in a divorce. She has no reason to tell you. Thats why I think its possible that contact has continued, but hidden well. Or it could restart in the near future. 

You're right, this is your call. You've gotten lots of posts here from very wise people. Its easy for an outsider to say "F*** her, divorce her now". Not so easy when it is your spouse that is cheating. The advice here about trying to save the marriage all revolves around the essentials: her willing to do the "heavy lifting" after betraying you.

So far, she has blameshifted you, refused to NC. Leads me to believe that this affair isn't over, or will be resuming soon, once she has gotten you off her back a little. Its a tough call, trying to determine her sincerity. But from what you have written so far, I'd say she isn't sincere in her efforts.

I hope I am wrong, though. But only you can see how she is acting. One thing I am confident about is that you will not settle for being your wife's "Plan B" in life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

this is bad said:


> W is upset over the fact that I told them even after I agreed to keep this between us.


Just reply: I'm upset over the fact that you committed adultery.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

i'm going to take a different approach here. Number one, you are still in the discovery stage and in shock. As a result, your are no mental capacity to be making long term decisions about divorce and should hold those thoughts for at least 2-3 months until you have time to mentally sort through everything you have found out. Yes she was an absolute sh!t, yes your pissed,yes your hurt. BUt is is anger speaking right now and that time will permit you to take a more realistic view. Secondly, EVERYTHING that has happened so far is typical and follows the script WS do when in the fog and unable to detach. I went through it ALL with my wife. My story in short - 20 years, 2 men short term early and then a friend for 18 years with MY youngest daughter not biologically mine. Is that a bit more Sh!t than your dealing with? She refused to cut it off early on. I had to tell her she had two choices - separation and divorce soon to follow with total financial cut off, or NC , try and IC with MC. When laid out in that way, she chose the latter. We are 9 months out and both doing extremely well with a better marriage than we have had for the previous 20 years! DO NOT throw in the towel until you settle down. There is PLENTY of time for that later. For now, focus on controlling your anger, doing no additional harm and helping her get free of this addiction she has. If your interested in doing the SMART thing, let me know.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

MAke a plan. Fast is slow, slow is fast and smooth.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Last night before going to sleep I noticed I was getting angrierand angrier. Your post makes sense. Today I'm going to try to calm down. I just hope I don' t discover something new over the weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

TIB, anger and bitterness are your true enemies, exponentially much worse than any OM you encounter. If you feed them, they will take permanent residency in your heart and will poison you life. Make a conscious decision that no matter what happens to your marriage that you will not allow these toxic twins a place in your heart and soul.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks. This was beginning to consume me alive. I can hardly function properly at work. The kids are beginning to notice my behavior is changing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> TIB, anger and bitterness are your true enemies, exponentially much worse than any OM you encounter. If you feed them, they will take permanent residency in your heart and will poison you life. Make a conscious decision that no matter what happens to your marriage that you will not allow these toxic twins a place in your heart and soul.


This is really, really valuable and insightful advice. Live it, breathe it, know it!!! Trust me, I'm a real example of not being smart enough to see it, know it, and keep the demons out of my soul. They've taken up residence, and exorcism is way harder than keeping them away in the first place.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My husband is SUPER negative. So is my brother (who helped raise me), and I didn't realize until 10 years in that I had married my brother, lol.

But he'll see the bad in EVERYTHING. It is so bad that DD20 and I will literally say to him 'will you please try to not say something negative for just one hour?'

I saw it start to take hold of DD20 when she was about 10. She'd come home from school and say something like 'things were great until Suzy took my pen and never returned it. She did it on purpose! They're all laughing at me now! My day is ruined!'

See how she ramps it up until a very simple thing - probably an oversight - is turned into a life-altering tragedy?

I'd sit down with her at night and say 'Look. You can let this consume you. You can 'count' this day as a bad day and go to bed miserable and wake up miserable, expecting another bad day. If you do that, you just wasted a perfectly fine day, you threw away a day of your life, by giving in to the negative thoughts. Do you want to do that? Do you want to look back at your junior high years and think that they were filled with 'bad' days, or do you want to look back and realize how much fun you had, how many friends you made, how much you got to do? Which way do you want to be?'

It took a lot of these conversations but she truthfully couldn't argue herself out of this logic. But it took work on her part to step back from that ledge of negative thinking.

The point is, it's a choice, it's an active verb, and it takes conscious work to not give in to the negativity. But it's so rewarding in the end.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Stay away from alcohol. And I don't just mean drinking a lot. I mean stay away. It will really reduce your ability to deal with the emotions and anger.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

morituri said:


> TIB, anger and bitterness are your true enemies, exponentially much worse than any OM you encounter. If you feed them, they will take permanent residency in your heart and will poison you life. Make a conscious decision that no matter what happens to your marriage that you will not allow these toxic twins a place in your heart and soul.


:iagree:

That reminded me of the story of the old Cherokee talking to his grandson. That story has been posted here a couple of times on other threads, but it's been a while.

Basically, the grandfather is telling the boy that inside of him are 2 wolves fighting. One is good, with a description of all that entails. One is bad, including anger and bitterness. These two wolves are constantly fighting inside of him and each one of us.

The boy asked which one will win.

The wise man answered, "The one I feed."

It's easy to feed that bad wolf in our situation. Starve him and he will get weaker. It's easier said than done, but you (and I) have to make a conscience effort to do it or that damn bad wolf will take over.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You know I was thinking about that native American story after I wrote that post. Thanks HTN for posting it and please consider making it a link for others to read.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks. Didn't look at it that way. I don't drink by the way, not even beer. Just have a ****tail once in a while. 

What had me upset last night was resistance to another request. To delete all past emails from OM. At first W refused but now I'm told it will get done. Let's see. Same goes for 4 pics that's on the phone. This additional challenge almost broght me to a boiling point. I don't know how I was able to sleep. I guess praying a lot is helping. I hope to to find anything going on secretly, that will blow the lid off.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

this is bad said:


> Lastly, W tell me she cannot force any that doesn't want to be with her to be with her. It got tense...


I hope I am wrong, but the way I read this sentence is she wants to be with him, but can't force him to be with her.

After my wife's EA ended, she gave me everything he had sent her including a first run comic book. I even requested that she give me a page out of an old scrapbook that had a picture of him from high school, he wasn't the only person on the page. She tried to say that that picture was irrelevant to the EA and so was the comic, but I told her she could keep absolutely nothing related to him if she wanted to stay. She needs to get rid of it all.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

She does not want to be with OM. But that she can't make someone stay that doesn't want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

TIB - I can tell you from first hand experience running in circles adn beating a bunch of requirements to DEATH with her will only cause her to draw back into a shell and want to go back to where the grass appears greener (fed with bull hockey) and there are not challenges, interrogations or tears. When I said contain and control your anger and rage can I guess you are interrogating, yelling, making harsh comments about how terrible she is even if it's just by saying how hurt you are? You are justified in your feelings, you have been ripped apart emotionally. In order for her to open up and be honest, you have to NOT make her want to hide and NOT want ot only tell you what you want to hear to avoid your wrath. 

This is a teleseminar about how to get your husband to talk - while it's your wife who is the WS, the advice given deals with how NOT to approach the WS and a majority of it yuo should learn to apply right away.

http://www.beyondaffairs.com/MP3s/TS-2010-Feb-26.mp3

This one is about the mistakes people make early on after discovery. I think you'll hear all about some of the things you are doing
http://www.beyondaffairs.com/MP3s/TS-Oct29.mp3

Look around and listen. She has done terrible things. In the long term whether you R or D you will have to be able to deal with her. I know you still love her and if things started moving the right way yuo would R. You just have to be patient. You also at some point have to look at yourself and ask - what was I doing that she repeatedly complained about and I blew off. Are there things YOU can do to be the better choice?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think you're discussing this too much. She has to be able to see that living with you is not a prison sentence. Don't bring it up more than once a day, if that much.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks, got all the info I need. I


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Bad---Don't bother to go to the MC-------Your wife is still in her A.

Look at the facts---refuses to send NC item----refuses to delete, e-mails, texts, pictures----he is still on her mind 24/7

You are banging your head agst a wall

She says she will delete FB, and give you access to her phone----that isn't gonna stop her from contacting him---if she really wants to talk to him

Things like this, for the wondering spouse do not go away COLD TURKEY----he is still there with her, every minute of every day---she went way to far, and did way to many things with him, to just cut things off

How do you know cuz he says he won't have any more contact, that he isn't lying----I am very sure he has the same feelings for your wife, that she does for him, and he has become a proven cheater, who did not stop himself, nor your wife, WHEN HE KNEW HE WAS WRECKING YOUR HOME, THE HOME OF A FAMILY MEMBER, which makes it all the worse.

I really am not sure how you put a stop to this---but I do know this, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for her not to send a NC item of some kind---it is directly to him, no one else need ever know about it, cept the 3 of you---SO WHAT IS THE REAL REASON, THE REAL, WHY, SHE REFUSES TO SEND THE ITEM--------is it that she is still in her A.?????---Is it that she is giving you lip service, just to make sure her life style doesn't change, and you don't stop financing her living??????

If you and the kids were foremost in her mind, and SHE WAS A TRULY REMORSEFUL WW---she would do ANYTHING, AND EVERYTHING, ON HER OWN---to make this right

Don't even bother with MC, at this point in time, it is a waste of money----don't bother with anything toward R.----YOUR WIFE IN HER MIND, AND MAYBE IN REALITY IS STILL IN HER A.----

Until the A., actually ends, and you get proof/signs that it really is over, counseling will not help----the counseling is to put the mge., back together---right now you do not have a mge., you have a wife who is giving you lip service, of some of what you wanna hear, so she can maintain HER LIFESTYLE.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

I've said it to others, and I'll say it here: Sometimes, the best way to make someone see what they really stand to lose, is to go ahead and let them lose it. You can always reconcile later.


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## this is bad (Aug 13, 2011)

The only reason for no nc letter is because she's been shamed very bbadly because OM mom know. That she could never see her face again. I explain the one that needs it is thge OM not mom. Also explained that she's not willing to do ANY thing for the marriage. As I insisted her reply is, she can't forec someone to stay with her if they dom't want to. What the hell is that. What good is the letter going to do. Same with the pic. Why delete it if he's always going to be family. He'll is inn my head. Same for the text. I gety a text in the am saying all will be deleted. I find an app that was download call incredmail. Anyone familiar with it? Looks like somthing fishy is going to happen. All tools running, hope I don't catch something. I'll be civil this weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

TIB, you may not hope to catch something, but there is something there. You may not catch it, but you know in your gut this affair has continued deep underground or will resume shortly. 

I really hope this thread doesn't become a long, drawn out nightmare of inacton similar to Disbelief and HurtinginTN's stories. I dont think it will, though. You've got some rock solid advice from people here.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Not sure what this means:

"•IncrediMail is a friendly program, easy and a lot of fun to use
•Plenty of stationery and multimedia content is available for IncrediMail
•IncrediMail offers fast search and can organize email folders in a useful fashion
Cons
•IncrediMail supports IMAP accounts only in a very limited and rudimentary way
•Secure, encrypted email messaging is not available in IncrediMail
•IncrediMail does not offer templates, text snippets and learning filters for efficient email use
Description
•IncrediMail lets you access multiple POP, IMAP (download-only) email accounts.
•Large collections of stationery, animations, emoticons and sounds can be used in IncrediMail emails.
•IncrediMail sports animated new mail notifiers, 3D effects and animations throughout.
•Basic message rules, a fast search engine, flags and folder filters help you organize email in IncrediMail.
•You can set up IncrediMail to accept only mail from approved senders into your inbox.
•IncrediMail Protection Center, a subscription service, filters spam and alerts you about links to harmful sites in emails.
•IncrediMail can block remote images in emails (problematic privacy-wise) and lets you bounce mail.
•It is easy to transfer IncrediMail data and settings to a new computer. Paid option IncrediBackup offers simple backups.
•Anonymous usage data collected by IncrediMail identifies the most popular letters and other content.
•IncrediMail supports Windows XP/Vista/7.
Guide Review - IncrediMail 2 6.26 - Free Email Program
Email is most fun when it works — and includes flashy trinkets, too. 
Of the latter, IncrediMail has plenty: you can send and receive messages using rich formatting, of course, or apply rich stationery (called IncrediMail letters), add handwritten signatures, send e-cards, insert sounds and what not; you can also change IncrediMail's (somewhat homespun) interface with themes, have animated characters announce new mail and have typewriter sounds accompany your, well, typing. 

IncrediMail also works. It downloads mail faithfully from multiple (POP and IMAP, including, e.g., Windows Live Hotmail, Gmail and AOL Mail, of course) accounts into ever growing folders. Thanks to handy search functions, you can focus on certain messages — say, mail from a particular sender, attachments or unread emails — easily in a folder or, of course, search all your archive for keywords and characteristics swiftly. 

What is true for emails also applies to people: they are easy to add and to find, can have distinguishing icons or pictures assigned. IncrediMail will also suggest likely people to remember based on your correspondence patterns, and managing groups is a breeze. 

Unfortunately, IncrediMail is not so helpful and courteous with composing messages. You can set up signatures, of course, and have IncrediMail send out-of-office replies; IncrediMail does not, however, include message templates or text snippets for faster answers. Free-form message labels or self-learning folders to organize mail in a very personal or totally automatic manner are missing as well. 

You can subscribe to a capable spam filter, though, and IncrediMail comes with messages filters that muster the essential tasks. Speaking of subscriptions, it is really unfortunate that IncrediMail's IMAP support is lacking: you can only download new mail, not subscribe to folders and access their online contents. "

(Updated June 2011)


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