# Years of Indecision



## bluebird20

So yeah, typical long standing, stale marriage of 12 years, two kids. I wrote out our story in the thread titled "my story" in general discussions. My biggest issue seems to be my own indecision. One day I feel love for him and I want to stay and the next I am so disconnected and want to leave. It has been this way for YEARS. He is fine, happy, content, never waivers, never changes. Even on my best days my feelings are still not extraordinary love but love of some kind that I don't know I can even describe. He is a good guy, no infidelity, no domestic violence, control, etc. BUT we got married young, I changed and I long for someone who I will connect with more on so many levels. The kids play a huge role of course. I came from a broken home and ugly custody battle with two step parents and I am trying desperately to save my kids from that hell.

Do I just keep living this way? Is there a way to have a "good day" about it and make it stick? And yes we did marriage counseling for a year...helped with some things, communication, etc. but not this, not my deep rooted emotions and attraction.


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## HoopsFan

Hello Bluebird and welcome. I'm a 32 and a husband, not a wife, but I can relate to most of what you've said in this post and in your other. I even remember initially not being attracted to my now wife of 9 years when I first met her. But I lacked confidence back then when I was in my early 20's and so I convinced myself to like a girl that I knew liked me. It was a pattern for me that I'd followed before. I've only dated 1 girl in my life that I found very attractive (yes, before I met my wife).

My wife and I met during college and then married 3 months after I finished, when I was 23. I think it's just plain stupid to get married before about the age of 27. If Michael J. Fox let me ride shotgun in his DeLorean and introduced current me to 23 year-old me, I don't think we'd had much in common. I was very conservative then, I was a very religious baptist, hadn't even drank a beer or had sex then. Current day me is still pretty tame (I _am an accountant afterall), but I enjoy my beer, would love to have some hot sex, and my ideal mate is quite a bit different now than it was then. I think, how is it possible to find the ideal mate for yourself in your early 20's when you don't even know what kind of person you'll be in 10 years. I've also learned alot in the past 10 years about which qualities in a woman would make a good match for me and a good wife - but of course that information is useless to me right now.

We have 2 kids (6 and 3) that are the light of my life. My son even has my name, and right now my biggest reason for staying married is that I can't imagine not being able to see them every day. We have a very comfortable lifestyle and great friends and family, and there are times when I feel love for my wife, but we have no passion. She doesn't like to hug, kiss, hold hands, have sex, cuddle, or do anything that involves her being vulnerable and close to me. I've never seen her parents do those things either and apparently that's her idea of a good marriage - like business partners. A year ago I was leaning towards divorce so that I could have the chance to go fill my intimacy/romance void, but now I'm content to wait and let things shake out a little. My kids need me right now; there are things that I teach them all the time that my wife can't.

Don't rush your decision. I know it's lonely being in a marriage like this, and I know the other side of the fence looks mighty appealing, but take solace in knowing that you're a good mom by putting your kid's needs above your's. In the meantime, I think you can still be a happy, fulfilled person by concentrating on your other interests, hobbies, career, and friends. When you wallow in self pity, it only makes problems seem worse. Try to keep a positive attitude. You're healthy, you have a great family, and life is a blessing. Besides, more than likely your next relationship would have issues as well - none are perfect.

I think reasons to divorce when kids are still in the picture include: abuse, addiction, infidelity, if your marriage makes it impossible for you to be a good parent, or if you truly believe your dysfuctional marriage is doing more harm to your kids than good. Otherwise, it's not an easy pill to swallow I know, but it's probably best to stay where you're at and give your best effort to improve your relationship with your husband._


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## bluebird20

You sound like a die hard HoopsFan...very dedicated to your kids too.  That is admirable. In all likelyhood, this is what I will do too. Its just so hard sometimes! I can get so depressed and sad and my eye starts to wonder and fantasize about men I know and I just crave more! It seems so difficult to live with the depression and longing for years and years.


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## changehappens

I know how you feel - completely. My marriage has been the same as yours for many years. We're approaching our 25th (wow, I can't really believe it's been that long) next month and I'm surprised we're still togehter - I didn't think we'd make it that long. 

The only thing I think I can offer you is the advice to stay out of any relationship with any of those men you fantasize about until you make a decision about the situation you're currently in and take actions that make you available for things other than fantasizing. I can guarentee that only pain and anguish await if you do anything other. I know this because I've made that mistake.

No matter how you feel; no matter how much you think you deserve better; no matter how good at justifying your behaviors, anything that verges on emotional or physical betrayal causes immense pain for not only you and your husband, but the other person as well. 

I guess if you feel that your husband is really not the right guy, and you're convinced that the grass is really greener over there, then you know the direction you need to move. But don't be a fool either because infactuation wears off, and the routine of every-day life can kill just about anything if you let it. It's taken me an extraordinary amount of time to realize that my wife will never be who I really need, and that the soulmate I once had is no longer that person. But time has also passed and I've invested a lot into the relationship that isn't easily trashed for a dream and a fantasy. 

It'a ll just so damn hard. I guess you have to ask yourself - just how selfish can you be?


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## AlwaysThinkingMaybe

BlueBird, I am going through the same concerns as you, after 15 years of marriage.

I recently read this book, which was very helpful:

Amazon.com: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship (9780452275355): Mira Kirshenbaum: Books

I've also purchased and intent to read:

Amazon.com: Learning to Leave: A Women's Guide (9780446394833): Lynette Triere, Richard Peacock: Books


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## bluebird20

Thanks changehappens. I really don't think I am capable of cheating. I have had pretty real opportunity of that several times over the years and always did the "right" thing and said no. 

Today is a really hard day for me and I am leaning really hard on the side of parting ways. He was out of town for work and came back after two weeks. Its pretty sad that I feel this horrible dread about him coming back and sure enough when he does, we are instantly clashing again. I know its really bad when I want to leave just to be away from him, not even caring if I ever find love again. I truly feel in this moment that should I be alone for the rest of my life, that is better than being with him. Yet thinking of the when and hows of leaving and the kids makes me sick to my stomach and I just shut down. If I knew how miserable this would be I would have never married and I never will again no matter what.


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## peacesign

I read your post..and a few of the responses. I felt like you were describing my exact situation. HOWEVER, I don't really agree with the poster who advocated for staying in your marriage..or talk of "selfishness". I do think I understand where you are coming from. I have been married for 10yrs. I have no emotional connection with my husband--it is really sad. I truly want something more, and I want my son to grow up around something different, not see me treated with indifference and disrespect. Honestly, I felt sad just thinking of you (and I don't even know you) in the same situation 10 yrs from now. There is something to be said fo leaving an unfulfilling relationship. I sensed from your post that you do not feel an emotional connection..what do you gain by staying? Is it not better for your children to have 2 happy homes vs 1 miserable one? Secondly, I do think they will figure out that you are not in a happy situation. Perhaps they are too young now--but they will get older and be more aware. thirdly..what are we teaching our children by staying in unfulfilling relationships? would you want the same for your daughter or son? These were my thought when I read your post. I have no judgment--obviously..but do you think you could have a win win situation here..both you and your spouse ALWAYS keep your children as the priority by keeping things positive, not negative toward the other person, consistent, and remain good role models..just in seperate homes? Just wondering if this is an option. Just simply make it happen that there is no nasty custody battle, etc. 50/50. Just another perspective..Best wishes to you.


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## bluebird20

Thank you peacesign.  I think your probably right but I guess I am so damaged by my own parents divorce I keep thinking of only how that will be the worse of two evils at the moment. However some things changed over the past few days.

#1. Alwaysthinkingmaybe I have to give you a HUGE thanks. I have a kindle and downloaded the book you recomended. I haven't been able to stop reading it for days now. It is just what I needed. I have been in relationship ambivilance for so many years, just like my original thread name implies. When going to a therapist she would never really lean on one side or the other of us staying together or seperating. Which I know is her job but this book is finally giving me some clarity! The husband and I have been fighting for a few days...no major yelling or blow ups but he came home from a business trip and things just didn't feel right and we have been cold, distant and a few smart remarks to each other. It kind of blew up last night when he said another smart ass remark. I just needed to get out of the house so I left and had dinner with some friends. They also gave me more perspective. One of them grew up in a home where the parents stayed together for the kids. He said he always knew and really wished they just would have gotten a divorce because they were so unhappy and it showed even if they weren't fighting. They also pointed out that my parents divorce and how they did it was abnormal and one of the worst they had ever heard. Short version: my mom left my dad for another man when I was 5, took me with her to another state not telling my dad about it and leaving my 12 year old sister behind. They couldn't even talk about exchanging us for visits for the next 12 years and they both remarried and THOSE marriages ended, one with a death and one which was a whole other Oprah so to speak. My mom made some really poor choices and wasn't in my life much as a child. I know my husband and I can do better.

Then the husband and I started texting back and forth. We both vented and then came to the conclusion we are both just sooo very sad about the whole thing. The difference is, he still thinks if we work hard we can fix it and I really don't. The book showed me there are glaring lifestyle and personal differences that have always been there. Our relationship started off on the wrong foot for the wrong reasons. I just don't want to be with him. I don't want to work on it. I don't think any amount of work will make me love him and WANT to be with him. I wish he could see this and see that he wouldn't be happy with me being with him when I don't want to. I know he deserves more too.

Yet, I still just feel such misery in the thought of the process of divorce. I can picture a better life a year later when the dust settles, but the process I fear will be the worst and most challenging thing I will ever go through and I don't know where and how to begin. I don't even know if I have the courage to go through with it as I haven't all these years.


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## AlwaysThinkingMaybe

I'm in the same spot as you, I'm glad the book helped.


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## HoopsFan

peacesign said:


> I want my son to grow up around something different, not see me treated with indifference and disrespect.... I sensed from your post that you do not feel an emotional connection... Is it not better for your children to have 2 happy homes vs 1 miserable one? Secondly, I do think they will figure out that you are not in a happy situation. Perhaps they are too young now--but they will get older and be more aware. thirdly..what are we teaching our children by staying in unfulfilling relationships?


Peacesign, I respect your opinion and maybe you're right, but I think you may be overestimating the wish of your kids for you and bluebird to leave and be happy. Kids are selfish - they want a mom and dad like their friends have. They want the family together. They don't want to shuttle back and forth between two homes, to have their lives as they know it uprooted. I think you may be trying to justify means for the end that you want.

Every situation is different and no one can tell anyone else if they should divorce or not. But you can make efforts to be a happy person despite the situation you're in. There are happy people that live in poverty and have much worse situations than having a husband you're not attracted to. It doesn't even seem that Bluebird wants to feel attraction or affection for her husband. I just think you should at least try counseling or a vacation alone and give your best effort to remember what it was that you once loved about your spouse.


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## bluebird20

Hoopsfan, I do respect your stance and that it is working for you. I just don't think it will work for me without me suffering so much that I need meds to be able to function, which is not offering any kind of good mom to my children. Of course kids want their parents together, but there is plenty of research to say that staying in a miserable marriage for that purpose can do just as much damage as leaving. You tell me to try counseling, did that for over a year - still feel the same way. You tell me to try to find the love I once had. What if that was an illusion and never existed because I was a teenager who became preganant and all we really did even back then when dating was fight? I know I should have never married him. The signs have been there all along. On my wedding day I KNEW but I pushed down those feelings because I was determined to try for my unborn child. Everytime we are apart when he travels for work I feel freedom and I dred his return. Once back when we were together for maybe two years, he was gone for a month. When we reunited at the airport, he was in tears to see me and our then 2 year old child. I felt like throwing up, and was not happy to see him. I have a friend in him for sure and we will work together to make this the best we can for the kids. It doesn't have to be the worst thing that ever happens to them. Kids are resilient and they have plenty of friends in divorced situations.

Anyway thanks for your help and advice but I don't think I can hold on like you can. There just isn't enough love there in the first place.


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## Halien

I really feel for your situation, because so many of your feelings are the same as mine. So why do I automatically just want to say, 'she isn't thinking about the ramifications, or giving him a real chance to be the one'? Unfortunately, nobody can really understand unless they've seen the same thing in the mirror.

For me, its more about a completely different outlook about what marriage is supposed to be. In the beginning, she liked the idea of being with someone like me, but she slowly returned to her very practical ways. I'm an eternal optimist. A deep thinker, so I don't have to talk all of the time. She's practical enough that a good time to her is checking an item off the list she made for our vacation schedule. If it says we're going to the museum, we get it done and then she'll wait by the door until I'm finished.

In the end, as our kids move through college, I started wondering about what comes next. She wants no more adventures, and just the chance to grow old. We're only mid forties, and I'm healtheir than most twenty-five year olds, so I've told her we have to think about starting a new life. Like you, I'm just starting to wonder if we married too young.

I travel for work occasionally, but my wife visits family members for several weeks around the world. I know how it feels to fret about her return.


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## bluebird20

Hello Halien, believe me I am thinking about the ramifications and have given him a chance. I have felt this way for 13 years and haven't left for fear of the ramifications. However everyone has a breaking point I guess. I went and read my diary as I am a pretty big journaler, how sad it is. It is a broken record of years and years and years of the same unhappiness with my husband.

I have given him a chance to be the one. He just isn't plain and simple. The only way he would be if he changed so much about him which isn't fair to him. I tried that early on.

Could you lose some weight, be more active with me? (nothing on that front for 13 years, he only has gotten bigger while I am fit and enjoy exercise). Do you want to go out for a drink, concert ANYTHING fun and exciting, heck even a walk? Nope, don't feel like it. Here is a real kicker for you. We are both musicians, both play guitar, both sing. We have never made music together and can't even get along to have jam sessions. It is ridiculous. We disagree on politics, I am liberal he is conservative. He is Christian, I am not (by the way not inviting a religious debate on marriage here). I am out going and want to have a full and vibrant life and he basically is a home body. He says he wants to do more but declines when I invite him to. I end up being a bum on the couch with him just to spend time together. This is fine sometimes but not ALL the time.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't want to just complain about him. I have stayed because he is a nice guy, good with our kids, has grown to tolerate most of our differences (even the Christian one which was super hard), has a good sense of humor, and works very hard for our family. I just want more and I try and try and settle for less and end up so miserable! 

When I think of us being single and meeting for the first time as the people we are now, I wouldn't be interested in him at all beyond friendship.


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## AlwaysThinkingMaybe

Blue, are we married to the same guy?


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## Halien

bluebird20 said:


> Hello Halien, believe me I am thinking about the ramifications and have given him a chance. I have felt this way for 13 years and haven't left for fear of the ramifications. However everyone has a breaking point I guess. I went and read my diary as I am a pretty big journaler, how sad it is. It is a broken record of years and years and years of the same unhappiness with my husband..


Hope you understand that I wasn't challenging you. It's just that we all read these with preconceived notions, and maybe this explains some of the critical replies.

In my case, I really didn't think about what I wanted for many years. I married, and my wife went through a very deep depression. Slowly, maybe too slow to see it happening, our focus kind've became just getting her over the issues. Helping her. Being the positive motivator for her and the children. Out of the blue one day (about 20 years later), we were in a marriage retreat weekend, and the counselor asked her what types of things made me the man I was (she had told him that I was a leader at work). In summary, she didn't know much of anything about me before our marriage. That's not the issue, though. Since most of the things I tend to want out of life are impractical in her eyes, I began to realize that I really, really fear the empty nest years. I want to be able to turn to my wife when she's old and gray, and say, "Da##, you're an incredibly beautiful woman!" She thinks such subtle things are stupid. Memories can't add up to a beautiful thing. Old age is for cleaning the house, and waiting for the kids to visit. Yeah, I know Im warped.


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## still existing

Hi bluebird20,

think long and hard about this. Do you really want another women playing mom and helping raise your kids? Is that something you can live with. Once you leave your husband you lose control of how your kids are raised for half their lives. Who knows who his next wife is like. What her beliefs are ... how she will help their development of growing up. How she will discipline them? Im not sure what their ages are of your kids.

Im actually more with HoopsFan on this. Your kids didnt ask for you to get married to him. Or for them to be born into that marriage. How is it fair to them just because your having different feelings now? If there isnt abuse, addiction, infidelity then you arent being fair to them. 

My wife had a son who was 2 1/2 when I meant her. He is now almost 19. Her ex and her got along pretty decent over the years. Tried to do what was best for him. I warn you now it messed him up. It just does. No matter how good the situation was between the parents. Things happen and come up and the child is always is the one that suffers. I seen it with my own eyes for years. I watched when he was young and his dad came to pick him up he would cry that he didn't want to leave. Or he had friends in different school districts and couldnt be with them at events because he was at the other parents house. Or how when he played sports he didn't know which parents to go to after the game to say hi. The list goes on and on. When he got older he used to say stuff about it. My wife and I were having trouble a couple of years ago. He told her for us not to break up because of his 2 younger brothers. He said it would be too hard on them. Which really meant it was really hard on him. That was coming from a 16 year old. Don't listen to people when they tell you the kids will just be ok. They wont. 

My wife baby-sits and 2 kids she is watching the parents are going through a divorce. The kids went from good kids to getting in trouble. Grades are slipping and the daughter is now seeing a counselor. You owe your kids everything. Even if you aren't completely happy. 

Wouldn't you jump in front of a car and push your kids out of the way and sacrifice your own life for them? Would you give them your liver if you could save their life? Those are extreme things that most parents would do without even question it. So why cant you stay in a marriage you choose if there isnt abuse, addiction, infidelity?


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## bluebird20

Still Existing, you have some good points, all of which have kept me here for this long. Believe me I am well versed in divorce and its effects on children. For one I experienced it personally as a child. Second I am a social worker and work with families going through this all the time, and third, I have plenty of friends and family on both sides of the fence with kids, happily married and divorced. I have no doubt it will impact my children. BUT there is no one size fits all and every family and situation is different. I have personally seen more than one family where the children were ok and did function ok after the divorce, and yes some cases where they didn't. I think a big factor in that is how the parents handle it. I believe my husband and I could be friends and make it peaceful and continue to co-parent, even having dinners together, etc.

As far as a step parent, I am not worried about that. I had two of them myself. My kids are 8 and 12. I know pretty much exactly the type of woman my husband will seek out if and when he remarries. I am confident I have raised my children to this point to have good values, confidence in themselves, etc. My husband is a very steady stable man and I believe he will choose a woman who is as well. Sure my kids may struggle with that if and when it happens but I am not a jealous type and don't see it being the biggest issue here.

Lastly how about the alternative you suggest, staying? What about what my husband and I are teaching the children right now and will continue to teach them if we stay together? They see the coldness and lack of affection, touching, mutual support, love and happiness, bickering and occasional fighting. At one point last year I was immobilized with depression over this and stayed in my bedroom sleeping a lot and couldn't engage with them until I got on an antidepressant. I don't want to teach them that this is how marriage is and that if they make a mistake they have to accept unhappiness and just live with it.


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## changehappens

There are several good responses here. My additional 2-cents worth is this: I believe that you owe your kids the first consideration in any decision you make that significantly affects their life. The stories you hear about the kids knowing about the temperature of the relationship between their parents is probably true but it doesn’t matter as much as the temperature of the relationship between the parents and the kids. If the marriage is damaging to the kids in real ways – like neglect, injury, abuse, etc – then yes – the marriage should end IMO. But if the marriage ends because the partners believe that they are setting a “bad example” for the kids when they stick with something that is not completely fulfilling and “perfect” then I believe that someone is living in la-la land. Marriage is hard work – consider the inside-out of divorce because the parents don’t want to set a bad example, which is; the parents stay together because they know things in life are not always easy, fair or perfect. What about that example? Are parents who divorce because they are unhappy in the marriage and don’t want to set a bad example really being honest? I mean, if they give up every time the going gets difficult, what kind of example is that setting for the kids?

I believe many kids these days have a severe case of entitlement disorder – they have been brought up with almost everything they’ve ever wanted and expect life to be a continuation of the gravy train they lived when children. Not saying that is the case for you, but it seems to me that our cultural expectation is instant gratification for everything, perfect nails, and low cholesterol screenings on a Big Mac diet. Something is out of whack with our expectations and we’re always looking for excuses to chase the things that we think will result in instant gratification fulfillment.

I’ve been through the ringer on all this – my case is a parallel to yours re the indecision component; going on 6 years now. My kids have even flown the coop and I still can’t figure it out. Lots of guilt I suppose from my upbringing plus a few other things I haven’t quite nailed down yet are keeping the pen off the divorce paper. 

I guess I have to agree with others who have said that you at least have to stick it out till the kids are out. After that, you at least can say to yourself that you did your best for them and now it’s your turn to try to find real happiness in life. But maybe in the mean time, life will continue to change for you and if you let it, maybe happiness will find you where you’re at right now and you won’t have to go anywhere at all. I wish that would happen to me, but I’ve pretty much given up hope for that eventuality.

Best of what life has to offer to you!


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## Halien

So, Bluebird,
A small statistical sampling in these replies reveals that men tell you to take one for the team ... er ... I mean kids, and women support you. Take a wider look across this forum (usually the first time posters, and not those who try to help) and you'll see case after case after case of men who woke up one day only to find that their wife is no longer in love with them. One universal theme: "I ignored my wife".

Sorry, but life doesn't give do-overs. In the wedding vows, they didn't say "I do, but don't, but eventually will when you call me on it"

Utimately, you're trying to make sure that you consider what is best for the kids. You've shown that. In my own case as a child, I personally begged my mother to leave my father. I was the one who saw her crying all the time. She said it was for us. So, if our dad really loved us, yet they divorced, he could still be an active part of our life. He could've proven his second chance this way.

Somehow, if you chose to stay, your relationship is setting a bad example, and you need to help the kids rationalize this, unless you want to show them that hypocrisy is acceptable. So, if you don't have it in you to (or especially if he doesn't) to fix it right, then its hard to argue that this is best for the children. Incidentally, although my mother stayed married, I am the only child of four siblings that has been only married once. I admire your courage and think its honorable that you are really asking yourself the tough questions.


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## bluebird20

Change, what if my marriage was wrong from the start? I wish I had some good times to fall back on, a time when I knew it was right and I loved him with all my heart. But I don't. Long story short it was a shot gun wedding because I was a pregnant teen.

And going along with what your saying how do I stay sane if I stay? Do I just swallow antidepressants for another 12 years until the kids are out of the house? Even those don't make all the pain go away. How do I get over the huge feeling of loss and sadness because I desire love in my marriage and I want someone I feel close to and in love with? Do I just shove those feelings down and function like a robot? Believe me I don't expect perfection but I really hoped for more than this. And again please remember I have felt this way for about 10 years and tried marriage counseling for over a year so its not a fleeting feeling that comes and goes. It is always there but sometimes gets so bad I can't even get myself to get through the day without crying and feeling hopeless.


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## still existing

hey bluebird20,

If you felt this way for 10 years or never had good times to fall back on why do you have a 8 year old child? Sorry if that sounds mean but I get the accident first child and the "shot gun" wedding. But why bring another child into something you were already regretting? 

Does he even know you are feeling this way? Just sit him down and explain your not in love and you want to break up the family. Things arent the way you envision your life and you want out. If I was your husband I rather know. So maybe he has a chance to fight for you or at least he can eventually find someone who will truly love him. You said he was a good guy ( I believe u did) so I feel bad for him and the children. Sorry if that sounds mean. But you have taken every step to build this family to where it is and you will be the one tearing it apart. Kids and husbands be damned. 

I feel for you because Im a guy who loves chick flicks. I believed in the story book ending. The fairy tale of life. A lot of the things you mention I wondered where they were in my marriage. 

But I do know what true love is. I do know what unconditional love means. Its how I feel for my children. I couldnt imagine not seeing them everyday. I couldnt imagine hurting them and making them sad because my partner and I dont have a "happy ever after " relationship. 

So talk with your husband. Go chase your dream. Its only fair he knows. Explain to the kids your breaking up their family that you created. Teach them there is no such thing as "happy ever after ". Crush their dreams while they are still young and innocent. Teach them that life sucks. They need to learn sometime.


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## HoopsFan

still existing said:


> Teach them there is no such thing as "happy ever after ". Crush their dreams while they are still young and innocent. Teach them that life sucks. They need to learn sometime.


Still existing - you're over the line here. We've all made mistakes. Personal attacks are not constructive and there's no place for that here.


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## still existing

HoopsFan said:


> Still existing - you're over the line here. We've all made mistakes. Personal attacks are not constructive and there's no place for that here.



How is that a personal attack? Im not name calling anyone? and explain how it isnt the truth even if it comes across cold? Someone has to speak the truth for the kids sake. Because that is the lesson they will be learning. Sorry its true.

I dont mean to come across as a personal attack. I apologize if it did. It was meant to be a reality and a honest opinion.

ok the "teach the kids life sucks " was a little over board but it does. and thats what they will be thinking. trust me


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## HoopsFan

still existing said:


> How is that a personal attack? Im not name calling anyone?


I just felt it was a little too mean spirited and over the top. Not saying you have to sugar-coat everything, but there's a fine line that I think you crossed.


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## bluebird20

Thanks for sticking up for me hoops even though I know for the most part you side with still existing.

So my response, well I am not offended. Your passionate and that is good. I think in the end we will have to agree to disagree. I have plenty of blame in this mess this is for sure. I did bring another child into it for the stupid reason many people do, hoping it would help things. I was young and naive for a long time and particularly at the start of our relationship. I blame this on my childhood and the way I was raised. I didn't have a good example and no one taught me the things I needed to know. I didn't have support and I didn't have what I needed so at 17 after going through the death of my stepmother who I was very close to and watching my mother marry a man who was basically a cult leader (she left him years later, what a mess) all in the same year, I clung to the one thing I had, my boyfriend. If it wasn't my husband it probably would have been any other guy who would have had me. I loved having "someone" rather than truly loving him and we ended up pregnant. 

I actually have an opposite outlook than you do. I feel staying teaches my kids that life sucks and there are no happy endings. Settle for misery and lie in the bed you make no matter how it tears you up and ruins any good inside of you as a person. By leaving I think I may actually have a chance at a happy ending, EVEN if I stay alone the rest of my days because I am so unhappy now that being alone sounds better than being with him. AND I still am optomistic that divorce doesn't have to totally crush my kids!

And I have already told him how I feel. He hasn't tried to fight for me. He went to counseling with me the first time I told him. He tried to change a few things, but as I said before I don't think that is the answer anyway. He shouldn't have to change everything about himself for me to love him. He too deserves someone who will love him the way he is. I talked to him about this again a few days ago. He hasn't put up a fight. He didn't beg me to stay, ask me to work harder, talk about how he loves me. I think deep down he is as miserable as I am and is starting to feel like he wants out too.

Again so bottom line, we will probably have to agree to disagree. If it makes you feel any better, I am not rushing into anything. Its not like I am telling the kids and moving out this weekend. I don't have that choice right now as financially we can't even afford for one of us to move out and get a new place. If and when we seperate it will be a slow process and I plan to rally support for my children, my husband, and myself the best I can. Even now after talking to my husband about it we are talking like good friends. I feel deep down that is what he is to me and always will be which will make things better for the kids.


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## HoopsFan

bluebird, I know it sounds as if you've made up your mind, but I'm hardheaded  so indulge me please.

Imagine yourself after divorce. It's a Thursday night, you've just got off work. You pull into your apartment complex, park, walk up the stairs and into your small apartment, open the door. It's dark, no noise, so you turn on the light and turn on the TV. You don't cook because there's no one to cook for but you. You usually try to occupy these days with friends and going out, but they're all busy today. The kids are with your husband.

Does that really sound better than your current situation? I've pictured that for myself and it saddens me. That doesn't sound like a happier life to me.

I don't want you to be miserable, but why does staying with your husband, that you say is kind and loving and a good father, have to mean misery? It seems you don't want to even give him a chance to love you. He took you in when you needed help, cared for your children, provided financially for you and helped you have a comfortable lifestyle, and in return you denied him affection until eventually your marriage grew cold. I sense that you're relieved that you've finally made him miserable enough that he'll let you go without a fight. Before he was stubborn and wouldn't let you leave, but finally you've got him there. This will sound harsh, but it sounds like he's the one that deserves someone better - not you. I just want you to know that you need to improve yourself and how to contribute positively in a relationship, or your next relationship won't last either.


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## still existing

HoopsFan said:


> This will sound harsh, but it sounds like he's the one that deserves someone better - not you. .


and im the one thats mean 

just kidding. 

bluebird sorry if I came across mean or crossed the line. I am passionate when it comes to kids. Im just a big believer in putting them first. Maybe too much. 

To jump on what HoopsFan said. When my wife wanted to divorce me and after I accepted it; I went and looked at a apartment. When I was walking through this empty place it nearly brought me to tears. This wasnt my home. It was so cold and lonely. I actually went back to our house and told her that she wants the divorce she is the one leaving. Im staying at the house. I also didnt want it to look to the kids like I was the one leaving. But to the point that HoopsFan said. Thats a major wake up call. Reality smacking you right in the face. You will see your kids half the time and you will be alone. No noise. No one to care for. Make sure your really ready for that. Its easy to talk about it to your in that spot. 

A salesmen at my work told me once that going through the divorce wasnt that hard until the first time he came home to a empty house. Where he was alone. It hit him hard and he knew he made the worst mistake of his life. 

Think long and hard. Maybe you have your own personal issues you need to get fixed. You said your on antidepressant. That has nothing to do with being unhappy in a marriage when he is a good guy but u just dont love him. Thats something deeper. It sounds like your using him as your excuse to be depressed and thinking once you leave you will be happy. But then you leave and you end up more depressed because your more unhappy.


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## Halien

still existing said:


> But I do know what true love is. I do know what unconditional love means. Its how I feel for my children. I couldnt imagine not seeing them everyday. I couldnt imagine hurting them and making them sad because my partner and I dont have a "happy ever after " relationship.


Still Existing, I can't help but wonder if you are making the genralization that most or even many men are like you. You sound like a great dad. Any hopeless romantic is going to try, and I think many women will try to stay the course with these types of men.

I thought it was hilarious recently, but my former boss, a woman with a million dollar a year salary, jokingly said "I can love any man who knows how to love.."

But for many years, I volunteered as a "Big Brother". I got pretty close to some of them, and most really want to talk about their families.

Maybe I'm jaded, but I've also supervised probably three hundred men in my career, cummulatively. Invariably, too many see this a free therapy to talk to their boss. I'm not too proud of my gender.

What a lot of us see and feel is being the type of guy who wakes almost every day thanking God that a woman chose to spend her life with me. I work out, keep the abs and butt looking the way she likes, and try to be as good to her as she is to me. I have life beliefs, and try to stick to them. They include making sure I connect with my wife and children every day in a way that means something to them - their love language. Yeah, we're dumb some times, but when she forgives us, we just dust our pants off and just try again.

This teaches our kids that marriage is a really positive experience. If these are absent, however, many studies show that it teaches our kids that life offers day to day doldrums. Kids are smart. Blindly saying that a dad makes it go away can be a little naive. Teen drug abuse and suicide are rampant in homes without hope, regardless of the marital status. 

My point is that we all need to focus on giving our children hope. Let that guide us in our decisions.


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## HoopsFan

Halien,

I've read your post twice already trying to make sense of how this all relates to bluebird. Bluebird's pervasive theme is not her kids; I'm sure she loves them, but this is definitely not a case of "I need to do this divorce for my kids". All of her planned actions are motivated by her desire to find a man that would be more fun, sexy, and attractive. She's hoping the kids will be alright, but to say they're her primary concern would be wrong.


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## Halien

HoopsFan said:


> Halien,
> 
> I've read your post twice already trying to make sense of how this all relates to bluebird. Bluebird's pervasive theme is not her kids; I'm sure she loves them, but this is definitely not a case of "I need to do this divorce for my kids". All of her planned actions are motivated by her desire to find a man that would be more fun, sexy, and attractive. She's hoping the kids will be alright, but to say they're her primary concern would be wrong.


Not saying that she's trying to do it for the kids, and your intepretation of her rationale is pretty demeaning. If you look at your pervasive theme, you are assuming that she should sacrifice her happiness for the kids, or even implicitly that this is purely driven by selfishness. Personally, I really believe that if the husband were to say, "You've matured and changed through the years. I will try to do something ... anything," then it is worth a try. Seems to be that he took the avoidance route instead.

Problem is that in the last thirty years or more, many men, in general, have lost much of the sense of self-accountability in marriage, accepting the belief that we can just be how we are comfortable being, and everything will be okay. "I'm just like every other guy," is the mantra. This change in the definition of manhood is increasingly documented. Studies seem to be pretty consistent in showing a growing complacency in American men towards the family. If you hear a guy who says that he works harder at being a role model for his children, or at improving himself as a husband to his wife, than he does at Facebook, or watching football, or work, he tends to be in the minority.

You can argue that the inverse correlation in the rise of 'walk away wives' is due to selfishness of women, I'm sure, but serious studies seem to tie it to the increasing unwillingness to accept complacency in the husbands. I don't think the automatic scripted reply should be to tell the women just to find something they like about it.

Sorry for carrying on, bluebird, but it just seems to be pretty callous to tell her to grin and take one for the kids. I didn't even see a hint in the post that she would be forcing the kids into a lifestyle of poverty, or abuse. To take the carte blanche assumption that any husband / wife combination is better than a mother's happiness is a little extreme given the background in this particular case.


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## bluebird20

First of all I want to say thanks to you all even those that don't agree with me. Your all helping me to think about this critically and consider all opinions and views. Hailen, I do like your response as it seems the most open minded and practical. Maybe if I give a little more background it will help you all understand my situation a bit better.

Husband and I are from the same small town. We knew who each other were all through school but didn't really hang out in the same circles. He is 4 years older than me. Then when I am 16 I start hanging out with some older crowd, him included. We end up dating, he is the lead singer of a band, has long hair, I am thinking oh wow, way cool, dating an older guy in a band.

We struggle for three years, breaking up getting back together, have some heated debates. I leave home at 17 moving into my own apartment, he is in his own. We both are attending the local community college. My family pretty much falls apart during this time like I talked about before. The biggest event being my stepmother dying. Another important point, we are both Christians at this point. He has been raised this way, I took to it hanging out with this group of friends but in my heart always had a hard time with it, but yes I believed and went to church, etc. So then I am 19, we break up. I feel like this is really it, I finally start to let go of him. Two months after the breakup, I find out I am pregnant. As we were breaking up he would sometimes still come over to my place and yeah we end up fooling around. I tell him, we panic. We decide to get back together for the sake of the child. I flash to my bad childhood and broken home, I picture coming home from the hospital alone with a baby (wouldn't have had much family support) and I am young and afraid. Then both sides of our family get involved, they are all Christians too and think the only right thing to do is for us to get married. We do when I am 6 months pregnant. Our relationship thus far consisted of hanging out at each other's apartments with friends, watching movies and being lazy. I did well in college, he flunked out and was pretty lazy. I had no direction in life at that point (my daughter changed that for the better).

On our wedding day I feel scared and afraid but push myself to go through with it, alone and pregnant at 19. The first two years are rough. I am hit with a cold reality when we bring baby home, friends don't come around so much and I am mom. I totally dedicated myself to her and stayed home raising her, quit college. We have some pretty big fights during this time, mostly about him wanting to live like a bachelor. He didn't help at all with housework, and wanted to spend what little money we had on stuff for himself like guitars and electronics. He had some bad credit and bills that I didn't know about and I fixed in a year making sure we payed it off. I stayed in control of the bills the rest of our marriage, keeping our credit scores in great standing. Any time I let him get involved in paying bills or managing the money stuff didn't get paid and he spent money on himself, even to the point of hiding his own stash of money and buying stuff behind my back. At this time we were under the poverty level for income and couldn't afford anything extra for him or me. I always went without, no cable, no new clothes, ect.

So we move out of state so he can go to a technical school. That year was hell. We fought all the time. I worked to support us. I was alone and miserable, he had a hard time in school. We move to our current location after that and he settles into a job. Things seem to get a little better and he grows up a little bit, starts helping around the house more, starts to understand the money thing so we have another child. I work part time jobs here and there. He goes through about 4 jobs over the next few years, some of which the businesses close down. Then I go back to college and have an awakening. I feel alive for the first time in years. I love it, learn so much about myself. I get straight A's and graduate with my bachelor's degree. I find the courage and confidence to let Kevin and my family know that I am not a Christian and don't believe it in my heart. This brings me great peace but hurts him. I find that I am really democrat and liberal as well. He sticks to our conservative roots. I think my feelings about these things were always there but growing up in a small town I had no outlet and no education to discover it. So we drift apart. I start wanting to have an active life. I work out, want to go do out door activities, attend social outings, get involved in the community. He stays the same. He has few if any friends in town. Doesn't have guy friends he hangs out with. He has hobbies of tinkering in the garage and playing with his musical equipment. I try to get him on board with me and my new found life, he doesn't want any of it. This depresses me but I try to do my thing and let him do his, BUT inside I want someone to share these things with. I go out with friends who are couples by myself, concerts by myself, working out, by myself, etc.

Then I start working full time. I need his help even more. I was pretty much doing all the cooking and housework again at that time, it just slipped into that pattern. We start counseling and she (therapist) agrees that he needs to help more. With constant prodding he finally does, but it slips pretty easily if I don't remind him. 

So we get along "ok". We bicker quite a bit over small stupid things and sometimes he blows up. He has a hot temper. The kind you only see once in a great while after he lets things build up because he won't talk to me. For instance he was a total jerk when we moved into this house about a year ago. My family helped and he bit everyone's heads off and they noticed it and were shocked. Then he had another little blow up like that during the holidays when they were here. At our worst in the big fights his favorite thing to do is throw the B word at me and it hurts me and he knows it. It just sounds degrading to me. Yes I have been guilty too, for the first several years of marriage I would engage in the fights cussing and calling him names too. At this point we only really have a big fight once or twice a year if we try to really hash out all the little crap we have been bickering about. He will still yell and cuss but honest to God I have made a conscious effort not to go there for years!

So I have built up bitterness. I don't enjoy being with him because we don't talk. Most topics end up in arguments so we just don't even try anymore. I am not all that physically attracted to him because he is very over weight and I am not. I try to force myself to have sex with him on occasion when trying hard at the relationship but don't really enjoy it, especially on an emotional level. We can't even agree on watching the same things on television so most of the time I go to another room. Oh and we are so disfunctional on things like family vacations, bickering a lot. He is late and forgetful and I am a type A personality so that drives me nuts when trying to do anything together.

If he were to pipe in about me I am sure he would say I am bitter, snippy, don't appreciate him, put him down, make snide comments that make him feel bad about himself. He will say things like I don't like him. He may very well be right. I am not perfect and not innocent in all things. I am trying very hard regardless of us being together or not to show him respect and kindness. I just get tired of waiting for action from him. For instance the weight thing. He recently was put on a machine to help him breath at night. He always says he knows he needs to lose weight but hasn't even tried one diet plan, one workout plan in 10 years! It shouldn't bother me but it does. I fear he will get diabetes, ect. in the next decade and it infuriates me when I know he can prevent it. I try being nice and offering help and I try being hard on him. Nothing helps.

So I know very long but hope it paints a better picture. Oh and to answer your questions. I laughed reading your questions about picturing an empty apartment. I actually look forward to that. I loved the brief time I lived on my own. At least I would have peace. It would not be filled with tension and angst. I would miss the kids on the days I don't have them, but again I am active person. I work out, have lots of friends, like to be active in the community and have hobbies of music and painting too to keep me busy.


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## HoopsFan

bluebird20 said:


> Your all helping me to think about this critically and consider all opinions and views.
> 
> I laughed reading your questions about picturing an empty apartment. I actually look forward to that. I loved the brief time I lived on my own.


I don't think you're really weighing both sides here - it seems you made up your mind a long time ago. I suspect you came on this forum hoping to get confirmation that divorce was the best course of action.

My apartment scenario wasn't meant to be a scare tactic. I sincerely wanted you to envision it and be sure that you would be happy - I wouldn't. I love tucking my daughter into bed each night and kissing her forehead. Sure, I enjoy having the house to myself from time to time, but I think loneliness would eventually win out if it was a common event. Your story and previous posts seem to largely omit details about your relationship with your children. Maybe we're having a disconnect here because my paternal instinct is greater than your maternal one. Also, I do recognize that my kids are almost 7 and 4. I am their hero; I can do no wrong in their eyes. It's a golden age for sure. I know this stage won't last forever, but I'm enjoying it while it lasts. I'm coaching my son's soccer team and the whole family is going to Lowe's in the morning for their kids' club building project. For me, life doen't get much better than that.

Bluebird, I think we're about done. You know my opinion: I know yours. Neither of us is likely to change. I wish you the best and hope that everything turns out well for all involved. It sounds like your life has had plenty of sadness to go around. I hope that the coming years will bring you the happiness you seek. Best wishes.


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## Halien

HoopsFan said:


> Also, I do recognize that my kids are almost 7 and 4. I am their hero; I can do no wrong in their eyes. It's a golden age for sure. I know this stage won't last forever, but I'm enjoying it while it lasts. I'm coaching my son's soccer team and the whole family is going to Lowe's in the morning for their kids' club building project. For me, life doen't get much better than that.
> 
> .


Hoopsfan - In my opinion, if more dads were like you, this would be an awesome country. My own childhood makes my kids sit, dumbfounded, unable to believe parents can allow such things into the lives of their kids. I was and am a really good father, and personally chose the route of staying married until they moved on.

My wife is a good person, but cannot process relationships like other people. We're currently trying to work it out, but her psychiatrist talks more about accepting than improving. Sadly, she just can't accept that other people have their own motivations, and that they are sometimes good. 

We are devout Christians, but she has always been very dissapointed in me. I don't tow the line like the others. I live by a personal code, so I spend my time volunteering instead of chior practice.

It's important to know that most of our friends considered me to be the perfect husband, and our marriage was great for many years. But to her, I was just the image she held in her mind. She couldn't name any of my half brothers or sisters, and only recently learned that they existed. So when a friend of her's asked us to work as volunteers in a program for new christian couples, we jumped. What I saw was case after case like the sad story bluebird mentions. The guy who led the whole thing was opposed that I took the stance that the husband must shape up if he was merely coasting in the relationship.

My point (and I have a hard time getting to it) is that the first priority should be on the husband's committment to change. We should fight for this tooth and nail. If not, its hard to ask the wife to just stay, because she'll probably get a better involvement from him in their lives after the life wake-up call.


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## bluebird20

Hoops, I appreciate your patience in reading my super long message and yes we are probably done. But I can't help just saying one more thing with reference to the kids. I did leave them out a lot of the last message because I was focusing on painting a picture of the relationship. My kids have been my whole life since they were born. I stayed home with both of them when they were babies for the first few years and gradually went back into work, not working full time until my youngest was in kindergarten. They both have lots of extracurricular activities that we both go to, a lot of the times it is me more than my husband because his job is demanding too and he travels a lot. Day to day I do most of the cooking for them, helping with homework, etc. Their dad and I kind of take turns with bed times. I like to have him do that because I usually do the whole morning routine getting them ready for school. They are a little older than your kids, well one of them. My daughter is entering adolescents and relies on us a little bit less, doesn't care if we tuck her in at night or not and sometimes even pushes us away to spend time alone. Our son is still a little mama's boy and loves all the cuddles and attention. My view of how it will be if and when we seperate is that they would go between us like 4 days here 3 days there or something like that. We would live close to each other. On the days they aren't with me I would probably talk to them on the phone (daughter has her own cell phone). We (husband and I) would still go to all their activities together and maybe even have a family outing with both of us there once or twice a month. I really think we could do that. So this type of situation doesn't seem too bad. Yes they won't be with me every night but I will have comfort knowing they are having precious time with their father.

Anyway thanks for your time Hoops and best of luck to you as well.


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## still existing

bluebird20,

hey, you and I are a lot alike. I sort of lost my Christian beliefs and Im pretty liberal. Let me know when you leave him.... just kidding.

Basically your entire story is summed up that you dont know who you are and who your mate is when your 17 - 25 years old. People change and start to find themselves when the get in their 30's. Thats why you dont get married at such a young age. Which I know you know that now.

At first I was against you leaving. But I really do feel your pain. Neither one of you really changed. You became who you are. I still feel really bad for your kids. Im just such a sucker for their feelings. I always think of them first. I know I wouldnt be in my marriage right now if it werent from them. Maybe Im even a little jealous because I wish I could leave my wife. That I wasnt so worried about the emotional effect on my kids. When I thought my wife was leaving me it was easy. I felt awful what was going to happen for the kids but I had no control. It was on her. When she wanted to stay and work it out I didnt want her to. I wanted her to leave. So I could be guilt free with my kids. So now Im half unhappy. 

I dont blame you for leaving. If he got really obese and your trying to help him with that and he doesnt care then he doesnt care about you as far as Im concerned. It sounds like you offered to workout with him and help him but he declined. 

I personally could never marry someone who is Republican because my beliefs are too strong and we would argue about it too much. But my wife doesnt even care so Im not sure what is worst. Too not even have a opinion or the wrong opinion : ) 

I think you made up your mind and you probably stuck around along time knowing it. I think your at the point now you need to come out and tell him. At first I wasnt happy you would put your kids through that but now Im thinking you need to be fair to him. You owe it to him to stop hiding these feelings and tell him. Let him be free of you also. 

I wish you the best and your kids. I hope you find what your looking for and please do everything you can to make this as easy as you can for the kids. And dont keep them from their father or suck him dry in child support.


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## Halien

still existing said:


> bluebird20,
> 
> hey, you and I are a lot alike. I sort of lost my Christian beliefs and Im pretty liberal. Let me know when you leave him.... just kidding.
> 
> I dont blame you for leaving. If he got really obese and your trying to help him with that and he doesnt care then he doesnt care about you as far as Im concerned. It sounds like you offered to workout with him and help him but he declined.
> 
> I personally could never marry someone who is Republican because my beliefs are too strong and we would argue about it too much. But my wife doesnt even care so Im not sure what is worst. Too not even have a opinion or the wrong opinion : )
> 
> I wish you the best and your kids. I hope you find what your looking for and please do everything you can to make this as easy as you can for the kids. And dont keep them from their father or suck him dry in child support.


Isn't it the case in many states that the child support is dictated from a set of standards? I think the kids should be protected above all else. My children are college age, and when my wife and I discussed divorce, it was my intention to pay their college (currently about $40k per year). The only exeption would be if they lived with her and she married a liberal (just kidding - they made if very clear that they would live with me.).


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## changehappens

bluebird - I've been following this thread and can now really see your point. It seems to me that you married a boy and he has only grown up a little since the day. Not considering his side of the story whatever it is, it surely looks like you two are not a match - are not compatible - and if you did it all over again, it's a long stretch to see how marriage would ever happen even with pregnancy thrown in like it was at the start.

I disagree with whoever it was that said the stuff about selfish women and men who lose touch - sure it happens, but doesn't sound to me like you fit the selfish woman mold. Your husband probably never gained touch so never had much to lose there IMO. Without motivation and drive from the start, the older a person gets, the harder it is to find. He doesn't sound to me like he had a lot going from the start and has less now.

I guess I'd be most concerned about the situation where you're out of the picture after divorce and his condition/situation becomes unhealthy for the kids. He may try, but without your influence directly in managing the household, his household may deteriorate to a point where you may need to intervene. If I were you, I'd have a plan worked before you get divorced in case that happens. I may be reading this wrong, but the picture you've painted of your husband sounds pretty grim and a plan of protection for you and your kids might be a good idea before it becomes necessary.


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## missu

bluebird - I feel your pain. I have been married for nearly twelve years. I, too, was pregnant and wanting to make things right. 

At first, my husband and I had a lot in common. Or so I thought... We met at a dart tournament. He was funny, confident, and a darn good dart thrower. This was the setting for our courtship. I played. He played. It was fun.

Long story short. I got pregnant, and even though, looking back, there were a maze of red flags, I "did the right thing" and got married. The early years were OK. We had a second child. After about 4 years, I quit playing darts to concentrate on the kids and their activities. 

As time went on, I developed friendships not related to darts. This is when I realized that I had married a man who wasn't social in the least bit. At least out of his comfort zone. (I had had red flags when he met my family and played in the basement with the kids) (Still does this) We went to my high school friend's wedding. At the reception, he sat in the car and listened to the baseball game. There are too many examples like this to mention.

After trying to have a social life with him, I started going out alone. Of course, this caused more problems.

Now, I don't go out, I don't have friends, and I try not to do anything that will make me disappointed with my husband. I am miserable, but within my husbands comfort zone. 

I used to be active, voted best personality in my graduating class, strong willed, and proud of myself. Now I am overweight, depressed, weak, and I hate myself most days.

Stay in it for the kids? What kind of message am I sending them? 

Obviously, I am conflicted or I wouldn't be here. He is a good man, and as long and I don't expect anything from him, we go along OK. I love him, but I'm not in love with him. I am not affectionate, and sex is a thing of the past. Does he not deserve better too??? There may be some couch potato/dart goddess out there waiting to love him.

There is so much more to this story that points me in the direction of leaving. I just wanted to talk to someone. So far this thread has not convinced me to continue to stay in it for the kids.


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## HoopsFan

Hello Missuu,

Every situation is so individual that I don't think it's possible to give broad instructions on which marriages are worth staying in and which ones aren't. There are just too many factors and I think most of us on here despise the idea of hurting our loved ones - otherwise these decisions wouldn't be so difficult.

I think if you start a new thread and get replies specific to your marriage, that may be the most benficial for you without hijacking bluebird's thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.


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## still existing

missu said:


> Now, I don't go out, I don't have friends, and I try not to do anything that will make me disappointed with my husband. I am miserable, but within my husbands comfort zone.


It doesnt sound to me that you cant go out with your friends. Just dont take him. Go out for girls nights out. 




missu said:


> I used to be active, voted best personality in my graduating class, strong willed, and proud of myself. Now I am overweight, depressed, weak, and I hate myself most days.


I guess he made you eat unhealthy and wouldnt let you exercise? Are you really blaming that on him or is that just easier? When he is sitting on the couch go for a jog. Gets you out of the house and helps you lose weight and you will feel better. 


and the message you are setting for your kids is your providing them with the best home environment they can grow up in. Sorry but thats better then a split home with 2 moms and 2 dads. 

You want to leave your husband. Fine. But dont make it sound like you are doing it for the kids.


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## missu

Hoops-

Thanks, I didn't think of it as hijacking someone's thread. I just wanted to connect with someone with a very similar situation. I will be posting my own thread if I can brave the criticism that has already started in here. LOL

Still existing-

I think by my I hate myself comment, you would have gathered that I don't blame anyone but myself. I would love to blame and feel angry, but I know it should be in my power to change myself. I have been fighting for years, but have been depressed for the last few. I feel like the air has been punched out of me. When I make a move to make myself well, it ends up scaring or hurting my husband. It is hard to soar like and eagle, when a turkey is holding onto your ankles. But I let him.


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## Halien

missu said:


> Hoops-
> 
> Thanks, I didn't think of it as hijacking someone's thread. I just wanted to connect with someone with a very similar situation. I will be posting my own thread if I can brave the criticism that has already started in here. LOL
> 
> Still existing-
> 
> I think by my I hate myself comment, you would have gathered that I don't blame anyone but myself. I would love to blame and feel angry, but I know it should be in my power to change myself. I have been fighting for years, but have been depressed for the last few. I feel like the air has been punched out of me. When I make a move to make myself well, it ends up scaring or hurting my husband. It is hard to soar like and eagle, when a turkey is holding onto your ankles. But I let him.


I think most of us understand that you are not blaming your husband for the depression. We all react differently to the loss of dreams or hopes. Bluebird, in my opinion, is trying to turn this into a plan of action after repeated attempts to connect with him failed.

Hope you don't mind, bluebird, but in my case, I went through a period that was about as close as I've ever come to depression a couple of years ago. Normally, I'm like a mild-mannered bull - at least that's how my boss describes me. I work out aggressively, stay motivated, and I think this translates to my very youthful appearance. My wife always hovered around depression, and admitted that she had no motivation of her own. If I wasn't constantly lifting her up, she would just lose herself to depression. She admitted that she never really had the energy to think about my emotional needs in the marriage. She acknowledged for the first time that had her fairytale romance, but was too insecure to do anything but criticise. I began to ask myself if this was what life was supposed to be. 

Before anyone forms an opinion, however, I think its important that my wife wanted to overcome her depression and insecurities. She really wanted to be able to reach out. Over twenty years, she made some progress. That's the hard part. Knowing that she wants to, but also knowing that we'll never really get around to exploring the things I want out of a relationship, like trust, adventures, etc.

One day, I woke up from the lethargy and got back to it. We're still trying to work things out. It took a serious discussion of divorce to get her going, although she never actually agreed to working on anything. And she harbors alot of resentment over the whole thing.

Maybe you can start your own thread to talk about going forward.


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## HoopsFan

missu said:


> Hoops-
> 
> Thanks, I didn't think of it as hijacking someone's thread. I just wanted to connect with someone with a very similar situation. I will be posting my own thread if I can brave the criticism that has already started in here. LOL


No biggie missu. I'm actually a nice guy but maybe that doesn't always come through this medium. You have to take the good with the bad on these support forums. I posted a lengthy thread last year on a different site about my marriage. The replies ran the full gamut - insightful ones, support, "you must be a lousy lover in bed", "tell your wife she's a turn-off and she'll come running to you", "you're a selfish jerk", etc. LOL 

So be brave, stick out your neck, and don't let the stones that someone might throw hurt you. Unkind acts are a reflection of the character and pain of the person doing them, not the person receiving them. No still existing, I'm not talking about you.


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## Paula3

bluebird20 said:


> So yeah, typical long standing, stale marriage of 12 years, two kids. I wrote out our story in the thread titled "my story" in general discussions. My biggest issue seems to be my own indecision. One day I feel love for him and I want to stay and the next I am so disconnected and want to leave. It has been this way for YEARS. He is fine, happy, content, never waivers, never changes. Even on my best days my feelings are still not extraordinary love but love of some kind that I don't know I can even describe. He is a good guy, no infidelity, no domestic violence, control, etc. BUT we got married young, I changed and I long for someone who I will connect with more on so many levels. The kids play a huge role of course. I came from a broken home and ugly custody battle with two step parents and I am trying desperately to save my kids from that hell.
> 
> Do I just keep living this way? Is there a way to have a "good day" about it and make it stick? And yes we did marriage counseling for a year...helped with some things, communication, etc. but not this, not my deep rooted emotions and attraction.


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## Paula3

my goodness - i googled the words 'indecsion re: separation' in order to learn whether i am giong totally bonkers - and found your post.
ur words are like a mirror image of myself.
is heartening to find, i am not totally mad, others are experiencing the same and strugling.
thank you.


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