# Need Advice from a Womans Perspective!



## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

I am in desperate need of Advice from someone who is a good sounding bored, or has been through something similar to what I am going through! I know my post is long, but don't give up on me!  

I am 28 years old. Have two beautiful children. I had a successful job for 5 years, but now am a stay at home mother/homemaker. I NEED advice, guidance, maybe a little help with some issues that are popping up in my marriage. 

First off, we have been married 6 months. Together for a total of 2 and 1/2 years. Living together now for two years. I have an 8 years old child previously. Together we have a 1 year old.

First Off:He is BAD with Money and will Lie about it.
Second: He has a terrible attitude/temper and can get very defensive.


Ok. I know, super lengthy. Sorry, lol. And as a disclaimer from the get go, My husband has become a much better person than he was. We are young, 27 and 28. Some of his issues have gotten better and he has made progress. I KNEW the person I was marrying would have difficulties. I KNEW he had issues with lying when he was much younger (A LOT of that stems from Daddy issues). I am NOT perfect and neither is he. HE DOES Love me. I am very certain of that. He is a Great Father, especially compared to my 8 years olds biological father (he never wanted anything to do with her or me, once he found out I was pregnant). There are many pluses to my husbands negatives. He has even recently started to help with housework, which he would NEVER do before.

But, there are problems. Issues have come up that are making me consider divorce, and I hate that I am even thinking it. My parents have been married 34 years. They had their struggles and ups and downs. But, they are happier now than ever. I WANT to get to that place. I know it takes work and I am trying.

First Issue:
He will LIE to me about paying a bill, such as a water bill or cable bill. This BAFFLES ME! He also has BIG issues with thinking of the money he earns as belonging to just HIM, rather than his family. I am NOT a greedy gold digger. I DO NOT shop! I buy groceries, I make sure we have what we need at home, the essentials. I make sure the baby and my daughter have what they need. That is all. I WAS paying the bills. BUT his issues with control over the money made me throw my hands in the air and say...it's yours, not mine, just give me grocery money. 

I do not know what to do. He will waste his entire paycheck within a few days. And have NOTHING to show for it. He "says" he paid a bill, but "threw out the receipt." That is a LIE. He NEVER throws out a receipt. Plus, payment is NOT showing up on our account. This was supposedly paid last week. He got so pissed off at me for even asking for a receipt, so that I could call the business and have it straigtened out. That is a tell tell sign, he did not pay it. 

Second:
He has a terrible attitude/temper and can get very defensive.

If I question, and I mean one question, him on anything I suspect he may have not done completely right. He will get so defensive and so mad. It is getting tough. He will berrate me, say really mean things to me. Say he hates me. How I do not respect him. He will tell me to pack my stuff up and call my parents and move out. He has told me he hated me once. He said it in front of my daughter (My daughter does not like my husband at all). He has told my daughter over the phone I need to leave. He has such a terrible temper. He has never hit me or come at me. He just verbally abuses. NOW, I am NOT saying I am perfect. Believe me, when he starts in on me, I can open up my big fat mouth and make it worse, I know! BUT, there is a difference. I draw a line at the things I say to him. He does not. He literally tears me a part in side and hurts me. I will be in tears and he will stand over me with his arms crossed across his chest telling me how annoying I am being that I am crying. I CANNOT take anymore of this. 

With that being said, he does apologize profusely afterwards. I have stayed at my parents twice. I love him. I have envisioned us growing old together. BUT he is so petty about things. I know he has a lot more growing up to do and I am holding in strong, but I no longer feel anything when he apologizes. I do not feel better. Because, I know he will do it again. 

He has problems with helping me if I am hurt also. It is like he is afraid of being too sensitive. If I am upset, he will not touch me! And that makes me so much more upset! I had a miscarriage almost two years ago, and he was so mean to me! That was the hardest thing I have ever had to go through. I would just cry and cry. FINALLY, he got to where he found out I calmed down once he comforted me. But FORGET him ever trying to comfort me when he upsets me. He keep saying how he is "learning" and this is all new to him... Um, buddy it has been 2 and a half years! Plus, I TELL him what makes me feel better! NOW, I am NOT a cryer, I HATE IT. I normally cried, maybe twice a year if that much. But, he has such a way with his words, that he can have me in tears in no time. Then he tells me how stupid and annoying I am being. INstead of just realizing he is the reason I am even being emotional. And Forget him hugging me to make me stop. He will just tell me to shut up, that I will wake the baby or that my daughter will hear. Then he will hound me with questions about what is wrong with me and why am I crying and to CALM DOWN.... I HATE that response! 

He can also be very lazy. He will go a month or more without cutting our grass, right now it is up to my shin. I Hate it. I tried cranking the mower the other day, unsuccessfully. lol. It's a push mower. He has said he will cut it tomorrow. But, he also said he would do it last weekend. He has a problem with "follow-through." I no longer take him at his word. He doesn't even understand why! I mean, come on! He barely does what he says he will do. I would say MAYBE 10% of the time he ACTUALLY does what he says he will. Any other time, it's excuse after excuse. 


Again, I want to say I am NOT perfect. I make so many mistakes also. I can have a sassy attitude. I can give him the cold shoulder when he is actually trying to be nice. BUT, after all our arguments, and all the horrible stuff he has said to me to put me down. I find it harder and harder to be loving towards him. I think we need marriage counseling for sure. But, this is my first step and looking for a little help and guidance. 

I will say this, he does pay for anything my daughter wants, when he has money. He pays for her insurance also. There are plenty of pros to go with the cons. That is why I have held in for so long. But, there has to be a breaking point.

HElP.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

(you asked or input.. so here it is.. I wrote a book cause your story hit home with me.)
You wanted to hear from women who have been through something similar. I have so here’s my take on it. What I have to say might seem harsh, but keep in mind that I was where you are now. There is not one thing I’m going to say below that 

You are in a seriously abusive marriage. He is very emotionally abusive and he’s also economically abusive. Look up the terms “Cycle of abuse” and “economic abuse”. Read a few sites on these topics and see if they fit what goes on in your marriage.

Has he ever put his hands on you in anger: pushed, shoved, grabbed, twisted an arm, etc? Does he break or throw things?

You say that he’s a good father. I do not agree. He’s an abusive father. When your children see him mistreat/abuse you, they are victimized. You are an adult and can leave any time you want. They do not have the choice that you have. Your children are 100% dependent on you and your husband. They have no choice but to be subjected to this abuse. And by staying with him and submitting yourself to this abuse you are also abusing your children. I can understand why your older daughter hate your husband. She’s a smart girl.

Also a great father treats the mother of his children with respect and love. In a family, the most important relationship is between the parents because that relationship is the foundation of the family. Without that your children have a very broken home… even if you and your husband are living together.

When my son was about 4 (he’s 25 now) I used to ask me to not leave him alone with his father. When I asked him why, he responded “Mommy, when you are not here he treats me the same way he treats you.” How often is your husband alone with your children? 

While you do not mention him being directly abusive to your children, I would not be surprised if he is.

This idea of yours that he is immature and still has a lot of growing up to do is just a way to make excuses for him. He pushing 30. He’s a grown man with a wife and family. He should be grown up by now. Your husband’s problem is not immaturity. It’s that he is a seriously abusive man. 

Do you live in the USA? Your English sounds like you do. You live in a country where you can get away from the abuse. You say that you had a successful job in the past, so you can be financially independent as well. The reason that this is important is that while you seem to feel that you are a victim, you are actually a participant in this abuse. Every day that you stay with your husband is a day that you choose subject yourself to abuse. This might seem harsh but it’s something that I learned. And realizing this is one of the things that gave me the strength to leave an abusive marriage.

Let’s look at a few things:

You say that he berates you and verbally abuses you until you break down and cry. Then he berates you for crying. Why exactly do you let anything this mean man says to you get to you? You know what he’s doing. Abusers use the abuse to control their victim. He’s saying the things that he knows will tear you down. 

You have the power to stop the abuse. When he starts his abuse reject the hateful things he’s saying. Just do not let them get to you. You know that what he’s saying is not true. And you know that he’s saying these things only to hurt you, to tear you down and to control you. Well this only works if you play your part of the abuser/victim game.

There are certain situations in which a marriage cannot be fixed until the problem is fixed. Some of them are drug addiction, alcohol abuse, emotional abuse and domestic violence. Usually it’s advised that a couple separate until the spouse with the problem fixes themselves. Often the problem spouse never does the necessary work. In a few cases they do and the marriages can then be repaired.

There are some things that I will suggest since I think you are not ready to leave. As bad as things are you are just not hurt enough yet.

One of you has to start changing. You are the one who is here so you are it. 

The first thing is that the fights have to stop. As you know they turn into a let’s abuse “AmyF” fest. Now you said that you answer back sometimes. You are probably trying to stand up for yourself and trying to explain. Sometimes you are probably so mad about this that you really just argue back. I get it. I’ve been there. But then I learned how to stop the angry fights that always ended with me being verbally abused (and sometimes physically abused).

The way I learned to stop them was to stop the interaction between us as soon as I could see that it was getting out of hand. I chose a “safe word”: “STOP”. When things started to get volatile is would say “STOP” very firmly and put up my hand in the stop signal. If he did not stop talking/yelling I would repeat “STOP” and the hand signal and then say “I’m going to go calm down.” And I’d leave and go to a room with our son, or go for a walk or a drive. I would just get away from him.

Before I started doing this I told him, during a time when we were calm that I could not take the yelling and fighting. I explained that I would use the “STOP” + hand signal to end the argument and go calm down. I told him that it’s my job to calm myself down and it’s his job to calm himself down.

Then I practiced this in front of a mirror. I stood there in the mirror and envisioned him escalating, then I’d say out loud “STOP” and put my hand up. I did this until it was an automatic reaction. 


This really worked. I just would not engage with him when he was escalating. It takes two to tango. If you don’t play your role in the escalation, the argument/fight cannot escalate.

One warning though. As I said, abuse is used as way for him to hold control over you. When you stop internalizing this nasty/mean words, stop escalating the arguments with him, he will be losing his control mechanism. There is a chance that he will escalate. Things could get nasty. For example he might fear losing control of you. So he might do things like follow you yelling, try to push you around, etc. so that you cannot withdraw from the arguments. The way to handle this is to have a cell phone with you with 911 on speed dial. Make sure that your cell provider has your address as the 911 response address. Yes I’m suggesting that you call the police on him. Him just knowing that he could be in legal trouble and that the world will now know that he’s an abusive man is enough to shock him out of this behavior. A court ordered manger management class or two can help as well.

There is a good book that helped me quite a bit: “The Dance of Anger”. I think it would help you.

I suggest that you find a domestic abuse center near you and get into counseling. You need to learn a lot about domestic abuse, codependency and how to get it out of your life. Right now a separation is probably a very good idea so that you and your children can live in peace, you can work on yourself. You can get a job because in cases like this financial independence is crucial. Another thing I suggest that you look up is “domestic abuse exit plan”. You need a plan. And then you need to work your plan.

Then if your husband sees that he’s losing his family, maybe he will be open to doing the work he needs to do, get into counseling, into anger management classes, etc.


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> (you asked or input.. so here it is.. I wrote a book cause your story hit home with me.)
> You wanted to hear from women who have been through something similar. I have so here’s my take on it. What I have to say might seem harsh, but keep in mind that I was where you are now. There is not one thing I’m going to say below that
> 
> You are in a seriously abusive marriage. He is very emotionally abusive and he’s also economically abusive. Look up the terms “Cycle of abuse” and “economic abuse”. Read a few sites on these topics and see if they fit what goes on in your marriage.
> ...


Wow. Thank you for your response! It was much needed! 
Since you brought this up I think it is important to point out that he has never hit me or came at me before. I have only had to let him be alone with my daughter a handful of times, each time she has told me he was nice and they played video games or went outside and played with our dog. My daughter is a very outspoken, honest little girl. She is also a terrible liar and when she is worried or stressed she will have it written All over her face. So I know she was telling the truth. Our son is only a year old, but he does good with him. He gets up with him and makes sure he is fed, changed and generally has whatever he needs. 

You are right about the fighting and me, unfortunately, being a participant. I have told him he is emotionally abusive in the past. But, you opened my eyes to the economical abuse. I am going to do some research about that as soon as I finish my reply. I like your method about stopping an argument. I have already tried telling him to stop that he's about to get to angry, but it's like he goes blank and doesn't realize how harsh and mean he is actually being. I believe I will try a safe word instead. 

I know you think I am making excuses about the maturity bit (cue your eye roll lol), but, he really can be immature. I am 28 and he is 27. He came from a wealthy family where he didn't have to do much. Everything was pretty much handed to him. Now, we are all on our own. He has issues dealing with that. I think he was able to do whatever the hell pleased him and now he can't. It frustrates him. 

You are right in thinking that I am not ready to call it quits. My parents celebrated their 34 years today. They had a lot of fights while we were growing up. But they both loved us. My dad was a controlling person, and believe it or not I can be to. My parents worked through their differences and beat the odds. I hope my marriage can do the same.

Like I said, I can be very controlling. We have even fought about it because he thinks I'm trying to be his mother when deep down I only want him to do what's right. 

I am going to get a copy of the book The Dance With Anger tomorrow. I'm hoping I can even get him to read it. Tonight we ha a very calm and candid discussion. I told him my feelings and how I am feeling, without crying. He said he knows he has issues and he is trying his best to work on them. He even agreed to marriage counseling. I'm going to check with insurance and see of any type of counseling is covered, if not, I may find a church that offers counseling. You are definitely correct in that he does not put his family or me above himself. I think counseling by a preacher may be a good eye opener because the Bible preaches putting your wife first and your family above all else. We do not attend church regularly, but we are going to start. My husband does like to read about the Bible and read the contents quite a bit though, so I believe a session with a preacher may be a decent idea.

I know you are probably thinking I need to leave immediately without looking back. But we do not fight everyday. And when we do not fight it's not as bad. There are days we both are silent because we retire to separate rooms. I mainly sleep with my daughter. She even likes to pick on him and play pranks on him. He goes along with it and laughs too. He never chides her and I personally have never heard him speak harshly towards her. She has never told me he has spoken harshly towards her even when I asked her if he did. She said nope he never has.

I will say this about him and I know this is going to throw up a HUGE red flag for you. His Father was abusive to his mother. His Father threw his Mother down a flight of stairs and broke her back. This happened back in the 90's. Being around his Father and my husbands step mother, you would never think this man was that terrible. His Father changed. He even went back years later and apologized to my Mother in Law for what he did to her.

With that being said, my husband despises the things his Father did. He has a protectiveness to his Mother. With all the fights my husband and I have had, Not One Single Time has he ever grabbed me anywhere, pushed me, manhandled me, thrown anything, or tried any other physical abusiveness. We just fight and he gets emotionally abusive and doesn't know when to shut up. Even when I say shut up you are getting too angry. Now, I am a strong person inside, I do stand up to him. I make my opinions known. In our two year relationship he has grown into a much better man than he was. His family adores me and think I am the best thing to happen to him.

But, you are still right in the end. It's hurting the children. And my daughter is 8 and very smart. I need to remedy this fast for her sake. If I decide to leave, I have a home with my parents. So I do not have to worry about not having a stable environment for us. I can easily find a decent paying job again. It's just either a) deciding to leave or b) trying to give it another few months hoping he actually realizes he is about to lose his family over his horrible attitude.

I'll keep you updated on things, I really appreciated your candid response. I promise I'm not going to get offended by anything you have to say. Thank you so much about the book recommendation and the different types of abuse. Deep down I knew it was emotional abuse, that's why I had already told my husband that he was.

P.s. I replied on my phone on a tiny screen, so please excuse any grammatical errors. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

Also, I would like to know how you are doing now? I am assuming you are no longer in that relationship? Did he finally realize how destructive his behavior was when you left? 

If you do not mind my asking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

How about making a list of what you want to see in your marriage, and then sharing that list with your husband, Amy? 

Just be honest and clear. I would put taking back control of the finances in there. It sounds like, at least for now, you are better suited for it.

When he starts getting emotional, reflect the feeling back to him. Just repeat back to him what he is saying, or paraphrase it. He probably just wants to feel listened to and understood. If you do this, he should calm down. If you really do listen, you can learn what is in his heart that motivates some of the angry outbursts.

Remember that his behavior is not a reflection of you. It is his working out his own issues, though not, right now, in a healthy way.

It is great you are going to counseling. You will learn about active listening, which is the technique I describe above. You can try reading about it on your own, too.

You are a strong woman, Amy, and a good mom. I think you can make it through this and strengthen your marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Getting some counseling at a church is probably a good idea. But in addition to that I really cannot emphasize enough how important it is for you to get counseling at a place whose mission it is to help people who live in situations where abuse is going on. Most of the places I know of have sliding scare and even free counseling. There is a lot that they can teach both of you of you about how to get control of the anger and how to stop the abuse, arguments and fighting.


Your husband was seriously traumatized as a child by his father’s abuse of his mother. Now he is becoming that you hates the most by acting out the kind of behaviors his father taught him. Basically his father seriously abused your H as well. You H needs serious counseling/therapy. A few visits to a church counselor is not going to do it. I agree that a church counselor can help with some things. But a pep talk about what the bible says about marriage is not going to change the man. Note that this is not a put down of what the bible says about marriage. I agree with what is says as long as all of what it says is taken into concideration. My words here are an acknowledgement that your husband has been seriously damaged emotionally by what he witnessed at home growing up.


I’m not surprised to find out that his father was abusive. I sort of figured that was the case. His type of behavior is usually learned from his family of origin. The book “The Dance of Anger” goes into how behavior like your husband’s is usually based on trauma and behavior learned in the family of origin.


Did his father go to prison for what he did to her MIL? He should have. How is she now? Is she paralyzed? Seeing his father getting off light on such a horrible crime only give your husband the false idea that such acts are not all that bad.




AmyF said:


> We just fight and he gets emotionally abusive and doesn't know when to shut up. Even when I say shut up you are getting too angry. Now, I am a strong person inside, I do stand up to him. I make my opinions known. In our two year relationship he has grown into a much better man than he was. His family adores me and think I am the best thing to happen to him.



Just want to emphasize that while it’s good that you a strong person and stand up for yourself, keep in mind that when one yelling fest is going on it’s not the time to do this. Stand up for yourself when things are calm. Right before things get to the yelling stage is when you use the “STOP” safe word.




AmyF said:


> But, you are still right in the end. It's hurting the children. And my daughter is 8 and very smart. I need to remedy this fast for her sake. If I decide to leave, I have a home with my parents. So I do not have to worry about not having a stable environment for us. I can easily find a decent paying job again. It's just either a) deciding to leave or b) trying to give it another few months hoping he actually realizes he is about to lose his family over his horrible attitude.



One way to handle this is to give your marriage 3 months. In 3 months evaluate our situation. If it’s getting better do another 3 months. And so on. This way if things do not improve you don’t wake up 10 years from how and realize that you have lost your youth, lost your self-respect and put your kids through hell.

Also, look up “domestic abuse safety plan”. Here is a link to one. You should look at about 4 of them online and customize one for yourself. Generally each of the ones online have a bit of different info that can be pulled into your plan. The link below has the word "violence" in the name. Just ignore that because the safety plan goes for the kind of abuse you are experiencing now as well.
Personalized Safety Plan - Domestic Violence

Keep in mind that him standing over you in a menacing manner, not letting you get up and walk away is considered a form of violence. It's a threat that if you try to get away he will hurt you. It's basically the first stage of domestic violence.

You said that there are a many days between the abuse/fights. That does not mean that what the abuse is ok. Think of it, if it happened every day you would be more likely to have left a long time ago. It’s a very rare case that abuse of the kind you describe happens every day. It happens on a cycle. (Look up “cycle of abuse”). Like I said earlier, abuse is about control. As the days without abuse go by, you start to feel better about thing. But he cannot have the control he needs if you feel too good about yourself, if you are too strong emotionally. So when he senses that you are getting stronger he senses that he is losing control. And that’s when he will start another abuser/fight event. And this cycle repeats over and over…. Good for a while, you get stronger so he’s losing control, so he starts an abuse event to beat you back down (verbally right now).


You say that he has not been physically abusive. I would add “yet” to that sentence. It is very usual for a person who is not physically abusive to escalate to violence as time goes on. I will bet that your FIL was not physically abusive in the early part of their marriage. But over time he escalated. And then the level of violence escalated until he threw your MIL down the stairs and broke her back. Was the fight they have that day that ended in him breaking her back about her leaving him? I’m curious.


I’ve been in two marriages were there was abuse. First is was ‘just’ the kind of thing you are going through. It was only over time that the violence started. And the violence escalated slowly over time. 


The Boiling a frog anecdote. If a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. 


It’s a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react in an appropriate manner to things like abuse and so the abuse escalates over time. 


The next time that a yelling/abuse incident happens you need to react like the frog that is put in a pot of boiling water; not like a frog in the water with the heat being turned up ever so slowly. This can be hard to but you have to have a plan for this: use the “STOP” safe word, if he follows, harasses you call 911. Let them record the yelling and aggression in his voice as he is going at you. Let them arrest him and let the court order him to anger management. Yea, yea I know you don’t want to call the cops on your husband. You call the cops to let him know that he cannot treat you like that. You do it to let him know that our society will not tolerate it and will work to protect you. You do it to get him into counseling and to get him to address his demons in some way other than abusing you.


The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships: Harriet Lerner


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You may not ready to leave, but that provides no real incentive for him to deal with his issues. He has to believe you will for him to deal with things.

I bet if you served him with divorce papers, even if you don't mean to follow through, he'd be at the counselors office so fast you won't know what happened. You are in effect enabling this behavior and showing a ton of weakness which will not serve you well, because abusers thrive on the weakness of their victims. Pack some stuff, take the kids, and go stay with your mom; then have him served. Watch the ensuing sh!tstorm...but that might compel him to get help, then if you want to return you can do it on your terms. 

Here's a story for you: my first hb was quite emotionally abusive which also started to escalate. One day he was drunk and got in my face with his fists clenched. I looked him in the face and said this: "look muthaf&$ker, if you wanna take a shot at me go for it. But you'd better do good job because if I get up i'm going to kill you". He turned and walked away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I think you need to return to work immediately.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AmyF said:


> Also, I would like to know how you are doing now? I am assuming you are no longer in that relationship?


I was in two marriages that with men who ended up being abusive and violent.


The first was when I was 22. The violence occurred about 4 times in 4 years. I left him on the day that he tied to kill me with a straight razor.


The second one was when I was 35. I had dated him for 5 years to be careful, to make sure that there was no violence, not abuse. After we got married the abuse increased very slowly over time (think of the boiled frog). We have a son. I tried to leave him when things got out of hand. But I had an attorney who told me to do things in a way that got the judge angry with me and she was going to give my then husband, and abusive man, custody of our son. So I went back. It took me 3.5 more years to build a case that would allow me to leave and protect my son from his abusive father. It was in this marriage when I did a lot of learning about abuse, learned to use the “STOP” safe word. By the time I filed for divorce the abuse had stopped. But by then I could not stand him due to the years of abuse. Plus, the icing on the cake was when I found out that he had been cheating on me most of the marriage. I supported us during most of the marriage as he was in medical school and then residency. I was so over him and his crap.




AmyF said:


> Did he finally realize how destructive his behavior was when you left?


My first husband died after I left him… not related to my leaving him. He had an intracranial aneurism.


My second husband does not admit to anything he did wrong. According to him, every couple argues so what’s my problem. 

I married again when I was 50. I raised his two children while he checked out of life and found video games. We after his children and my son were out of high school I divorced him. I divorced him because after being laid off from his job he never got another one. He just played computer games and surfed the net while I did everything to include being the bread winner, raising his and my kids, and taking care of the house, yard, etc. (I include this marriage in the spirit of truth in telling.  )

I'm 65 next month, not married. I just have friends now. My guy picker is obviously broken.




AmyF said:


> If you do not mind my asking.


Don’t mind at all. That’s what we are all here for, to learn from each other.


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

I have read each ad every one of the responses to my post! I want to thank everyone for their input! I am going to get into a much more detailed reply tomorrow. Been a busy day, so was unable to sit down and write out all that I was thinking. I will tell you my husband and I sat down and had. Very Serious conversation, and we did not fight about a single thing. I even had him read about the cycle of abuse and asked him to see if it related to him. It did, almost word for word. He looked up at me and very calmly stated that it did not make him feel good about himself. Anywho. I'll give details tomorrow for everyone. Night for now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

just remind him that not feeling good about himself is one thing. Doing something about it is another. unfortunately a lot of people who don't feel good about themselves can you do things to make yourself feel bad. That's what he's been doing all this time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Why do you stay?


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## botti (May 28, 2014)

Children who grow up in abusive homes are genetically harmed and are more likely to not only engage in unhealthy behaviors as teens and adults, but to be at higher risk for disease and mental health disorders.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> There is a good book that helped me quite a bit: “The Dance of Anger”. I think it would help you.


This is a great book that addresses so many situations. I too recommend it, not just for this situation, but for anyone who finds themselves getting stuck in emotionally charged unproductive arguments with someone they're close to.


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

Hi Ladies! I hope each one of you had a great weekend! Ok I wrote out a book today. lol. Sorry it is long, but I tried to touch on each and every point or concern that was brought to my attention. Thank you to everyone!

I have thought long and hard about what each and every one of you had to say. The advice has been so good. Thank you all so much for taking the time to talk with me about these issues. I can honestly say I did not realize how toxic he really was until you all pointed it out. So thank you. 

My husband and I sat down yesterday. We talked for a good 2 hours maybe even a little longer about our issues. We did not fight or argue either. We each spoke about things we need to change and talked about how we can go about implementing a plan to move forward in a positive way. 

First we made a list of "Positive" things we can do. 

1. Honest, but not hurtful.
2. STOP signal during fights means each person needs to calmly walk away for at least an hour to cool off. If the argument was over something tiny then the argument will cease.
3.Continue to show each spouse affection, in a positive manner.
4. Spend quality time together, no arguing allowed.
5. Learn to let go of the past and not bring up the same old arguments.
6.Learn from the Mistakes each person makes. Learn to not continue making the same mistakes.
7.Positive family time. Playing a family game or watching a movie the children would enjoy.
8. Say something Nice or compliment about each other at least once a day.
9. Say that you love each other once a day.
10. Have a date night once a month.
11. Do not be pushy towards the other person or try to control the other person. 
12. Try to make sacrifices that show you place your family first and place your families happiness first (HIS Idea for him to try out, he actually wrote that down.)
13. Be interactive in the other spouse's conversation.
14. NO NAME CALLING whatsoever.
15. Do not assume or make accusations.
16. Do not undermine or belittle your spouse in anyway. Respect each other and respect each others opinions. 
17. Sit down and Budget Bills, expenses, groceries, etc.

OK. It is a start! He came up with 50% of that list! I also made me a big note and put on the fridge that states "I love my Family, I love my Son and Daughter. I love my husband. I VOW to STOP arguing negatively in front or around my Daughter and Son!" I will see this everyday multiple times a day as I go to the fridge. I have also posted our "List" on the fridge for us to see and look at on a daily basis. 

We also wrote down 3 goals we each want to accomplish over the next 3 months. We are going to re-evaluate our marriage every 3 months. I told him if there are no positive changes in his attitude and our marriage, then we do not need to continue in this marriage. And someone had asked why I stay, I stay because I Love him. He is the Father of my 1 year old son. And I have Hope that he can beat the odds and be one of the few people to overcome the hurt and issues that his father did to him when he was younger. 

My husband thinks the company he works for offers counseling if 
you request it. He even thinks they offer serivces or can set people up to enroll in anger management. He works for a very large mining corporation, but he works in their Lab as a salary worker. He is going to check on all of that. I told him that he Needs counseling to start working on his own issues. I also said we need marriage counseling, BUT that he needs to speak with a counselor alone to work on himself as an individual. I am still going to have a preacher counsel us as well. I think if we can do all of this, which is a lot of work, we have a fighting chance. 

But, I know he has to do it to. He has to also make the effort. Not once, did he get mad about anything I said to him yesterday. He accepted responsibility. I had him read about the cycle of abuse, and as I stated, he realized that it was describing him and how he is towards me. He looked at me and I could see it in his eyes, that he Finally Understood and Got It. 

I told him I love him, but if he cannot change. He will lose his family. He will lose me and once I am gone, I will not come back.

Also, someone asked about his Father and and if he ever had charges pressed. NO. His Father pushed his Mother down a flight of stairs while she was pregnant (not sure how far a long.) She miscarried. It caused a lot of damage to her back and neck. She has had surgeries to help alleviate the pain he caused her. This was before my husband was even born! His Mother did not think she could even get pregnant again. BUT, somehow she did and had my husband. This was back in the 1980's. They did not separate until around 2000. 

I will NOT stay in a marriage that long if he cannot make positive changes. I told him that. I told him the damage he was causing me and the children. He said he will change and will work on himself. NOW, I do know it is one thing to say it and another to do it. I Told him that. I told him I will believe it when I see it. 

So that's where we are right now. If it is meant to be between us, then we will both work very hard on our marriage. He will take the appropriate steps to fix what he does and how he is. If it is not meant to be, then in 3 months there are NO positive changes. I am packing my clothes and moving my furniture out. I have a room at my parents house and a basement to store my furniture in. I am going to begin looking for a job. And essentially pray that things make a turn for the positive.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

Everytime I read one of these posts (and there are many)...I cannot fathom the idea of a grown woman who is responsible for children begging some idiot for money.

Honestly, what does a woman like this need to know? He treats you like crap and you're reduced to acting like a little kid begging for a paltry allowance.

These woman basically give all of their power away and are subjugated dependents who have opened themselves up to be totally disrespected and have zero power in the relationship. Even worse, they have no back up plan to save either themselves or their children from a useless tyrant of a man.

Why do soooo many women have "Prince Charming" syndrome where they think there's some easy road to them not being independent and self-reliant. All you really end up doing is putting yourself and your kids in a really crappy position and lessening your sense of self-worth in the process.

I just don't get it. I can't imagine the horror of living like this.

I stay in my relationship because I WANT to...not because I can't take care of myself and my kids and HAVE to. That makes all the difference.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

You have gotten some good advice for the most part on this forum. Ele Girl is just the best with stuff like this and many others too. I hope you will take it all to heart, as well as take to heart the boundaries you are putting in to place. 

Unfortunately, as with all forums, you're going to have to familiarize yourself with the "ignore" button as we also have some serious jerks on here as well.

Welcome to TAM!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Amy, 

You have made a good start. It’s also good that you are doing a 3 month period for re-assessment. 

I think that you will get a lot out of the “The Dance of Anger” book. I also hope that your husband will read it. He seems to be a classic case of a person who grew up in a terribly abusive situation and thus learned some very destructive behavior patterns. Most people who do this don’t know how to break the cycle. A person can learn to break it, but it takes a lot of work. I hope for the sake of your family that your husband is one of the ones who can make the changes.

One of the things that really helps a person learn to manage their anger is exercise. After I started using the “STOP” thing with my ex I told him that my counselor said that I suggest that he do something physical when he felt anxious and like he was going to blow up. After that when I would use the “STOP” safe word he’d leave and do something like go for an hour long bike ride. Boy did that make a difference.

One thing that abusers learn is that they feel better after they attack (verbally in your case) their victim. The reason for this is that the act of yelling, screaming and letting out all the garbage verbally is that the brain produces calming chemicals, sort of like it does when we cry. So abusers learn to use angry outbursts as a way to get a good brain chemistry high. Exercise works as a replacement for the angry outburst because exercise cases a similar brain chemistry high.


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## jane1213 (Aug 10, 2012)

When you meet another guy, don't think of having kids with them right away. Did you get married to him because you got pregnant? Leave him asap for the sake of your children.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sorry, but your daughter not liking him is all you need. I subjected my daughter to what turned out to be a rotten step father about two years longer than I should have. (he didnt start out rotten) SHE is your priority, you are supposed to be protecting her. 

See what happens after your three month mark. I guarantee you he wont make it three weeks.


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

I just want to make it very clear, I DO NOT HAVE TO BEG FOR MONEY. 

I ALSO WANT TO BE MARRIED TO MY HUSBAND! I am NOT some china doll that is being forced to live here under the threat of violence if I leave. I love my husband. Deep down, I have Faith in him. I would NOT still be here if my instincts and my gut did not keep telling to me hang in there, that he will get better with time. I am an instincts person. I follow what I sense. I listen to my gut reactions. I always have. I have held in with him because deep deep down, I feel like if I just keep at this and he also works really hard that we can find a good happy place for our marriage. I feel like he can resolve or at least find a better way to deal with his issues. I truly feel this way. If I did not, or if I had any apprehension whatsoever, I would pack ALL of my stuff and furniture and LEAVE. 

I will clarify the issue my husband has with money. He is just BAD WITH MONEY. He will spend it all within two days or so. A whole two week check! It is very frustrating. Now, the important bills do get paid. And when I need money, if he hasnt already handed over a few hundred dollars, I will just go to his wallet and take what I need for groceries, etc. 

Ok, now with that being said, when my husband runs through his money, he will then come to me and want to dip into the money I have put back for groceries for the next two weeks. I do tell him NO. That is when he starts in about how his money is his hard earned money and nobody is going to tell him what he can and can't do with it. So we will go back and forth, with me continuing to say NO and with him then starting to say degrading and abusive things. I cry, then he gets his money. Then usually an hour or two later (after he has spent the money) he starts apologizing and telling me how he doesn't know why he says the things he does. So yeah, every two weeks this happens. BUT, this past two weeks, he did 10 times better. He actually held on to some money. He is broke now, but he made it longer than a few days. We also did not have a single fight about money this past two weeks. Which that has not happened in, I really do not know. It happens so much, I can't remember the last time we didn't fight about money.

Also, I did not marry my husband because I had his child. That is a TERRIBLE reason to get married. I also had my tubes tied after my son was born, because I felt two children was enough for me. My husband can be very mean with his words towards me. BUT, he really is not a horrible Father. He plays with my son and Daughter. He gets up with my son every night so that I can have a break. He plays video games with my daughter and likes to watch old childrens movies with her. There are positive things about him as well. I am NOT condoning his attitude towards me or saying everything is "perfect or all right." Because it is not. We have issues. We will deal with them and move forward. We will also, include my daughter in these positive changes. She is a VERY smart girl, and is VERY aware of emotions and feelings. She picks up on the tiniest of things. I have already spoken with her about some things and the changes we are going to implement. She was very happy to hear it. She said that she does like my husband, it is just when he fights with me that she does not like. But that he is good with her.

I realize some of you think I am weak for staying. I do not see it that way. I see it as in I DID marry this person. In Sickness and Health. Through the Good and the Bad. We are dealing with a sickness and a bad time in our marriage. I will not just "give-up" and throw in the towel. Because, I do believe in him, and I do believe he can work through his issues. It will be hard, and will take time. But I believe in us. I am not just going to divorce because right now it is hard. I also do not have any pre-conceived notion of "Prince Charming." That is the most ludicrous statement yet. 

Thank you to all the women who have helped me. I am going to keep you all updated on our progress. I hope you will keep up with me. This is been like a breath of fresh air. It helped clear out the fog in my brain and the hurt I was feeling, so that I can now get a game plan going and work on making positive changes. 

I believe in my husband. I believe in our marriage. I also Believe in Myself. Together, we can beat the odds. We can deal with these issues and become a happily married couples. We will beat the odds and NOT divorce when the going got tough. 

I think my husband is married to me for a reason. Because I am the type of girl that won't give up on him. I will help him. He will get better. I love him flaws and all, I would never want to be married to a prince charming. 

I am NOT saying I love him being emotionally abusive. I am only saying I love him. I figure I better clarify that before someone says I am doing this to myself and that I am a glutton for punishment. That is simply NOT true. He has his issues. And we will get past them.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

AmyF said:


> I will clarify the issue my husband has with money. He is just BAD WITH MONEY. He will spend it all within two days or so. A whole two week check! It is very frustrating. Now, the important bills do get paid. And when I need money, if he hasnt already handed over a few hundred dollars, I will just go to his wallet and take what I need for groceries, etc.
> 
> Ok, now with that being said, when my husband runs through his money, he will then come to me and want to dip into the money I have put back for groceries for the next two weeks. I do tell him NO. That is when he starts in about how his money is his hard earned money and nobody is going to tell him what he can and can't do with it. So we will go back and forth, with me continuing to say NO and with him then starting to say degrading and abusive things. I cry, then he gets his money. Then usually an hour or two later (after he has spent the money) he starts apologizing and telling me how he doesn't know why he says the things he does. So yeah, every two weeks this happens. BUT, this past two weeks, he did 10 times better. He actually held on to some money. He is broke now, but he made it longer than a few days. We also did not have a single fight about money this past two weeks. Which that has not happened in, I really do not know. It happens so much, I can't remember the last time we didn't fight about money.
> 
> I am NOT saying I love him being emotionally abusive. I am only saying I love him. I figure I better clarify that before someone says I am doing this to myself and that I am a glutton for punishment. That is simply NOT true. He has his issues. And we will get past them.


Um, you need to wake up. THIS is not being "bad with money." This is pure selfishness. This is not being a partner. You go through the same thing week after week after week. I used to live with a guy EXACTLY like this when it came to money, and it never changed. Why is working hard for his money exclusive to him?? Its not! So what! A man is supposed to provide for his family, not blow his paycheck playing games. (or whatever the hell it is he is doing) 


Good luck to you. You will certainly need it, sorry to say. You will be back here 5 years from now posting exactly the same thing.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am glad to hear he is good to your children. That is very important. Like you said, children are sensitive and pick up on much that we adults miss. 

Did you read what I said about *Active Listening*, Amy? It really is a marvelous tool for opening up deeper communication in marriage. 

So often our behavior is linked to our deep emotions. If spouses can understand each other's deep emotions, together they can figure out ways of healing any trauma that might be inside.

You really sound like a leader. You have made your list, and you are going to read some good literature on how to improve marriage.

And best of all, your husband is receptive. If you can remain encouraging, while honestly sharing your feelings with him, I think you two can improve things. 

It is really important to be as honest as possible. *Transparency *builds trust, and it clears the air on any resentments. They often say on TAM that resentment will kill a marriage.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I really think you should get back into the job market.

You are making excuses for him right now.

Either it is bad enough that you felt you needed to be here with respect to money or you have it all in hand. Which is it?


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

Thank you, I do have natural leadership tendencies. I do think my marriage has a fighting chance too. 

He is willing to go to counseling and make his effort. I feel like we are on the right path. It makes me sad to read the naysayers on here. I am willing to fight for my marriage. I am not making excuses for my husband at all. He is going to have to answer for all of his wrongdoings and take responsibility. 

I never even said this was about money either, I was only clarifying my experiences with him in that post. Please, people take the time to read all of the posts before posting any ignorant comments. 

If my marriage fails, then that is what is meant to be. I am giving it three months. And yes, I did read about Active Listening. We even implemented some of the steps for it Sunday while we were coming up with a game plan to save our marriage. 

I will keep posting updates. All I can do is hope for the best. I hope the ones who gave me positive advice can have faith also. Or hope that things will make a change for the better. 

I appreciate all of you ladies who gave me all of the positive advice and for taking the time to help me out. I do not know any of you personally, but please know you each have my deepest gratitude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I have a lot of hope for you, Amy. And confidence in you, too. You are smart and organized and firm. And your guy does not sound that bad to me. I have all respect for EleGirl, and her experience, but I am really hoping none of his abuse will go physical. And I believe your steps can turn around the verbal/emotional abuse.

I am especially happy to hear he is listening to you. It takes some humility for a man to listen to his wife. I have screamed at my husband several times, and it is always for the same reason: he was not listening. It gets to a point where you just feel like you are invisible, and he is deaf. It doesn't help, and I always end up apologizing, but I am telling you, not being heard can drive a person nuts. Or at least it can me, lol.

Anyway, I am hopeful for you, and I think we are going to be getting more positive reports. And don't worry about the naysayers. Everybody is just giving their own perspective, you know? You are picking and choosing what feels best to you. You know your situation best. 

Onward and upward!


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

Sometimes I think it is just a "man thing" to not listen. My Mother says the exact same thing about my Dad that you said about your husband. lol. It is like they are on a different channel sometimes!

So for the past two days, which is not very long I know. My husband has drastically altered his attitude towards me. He has, so far, followed the steps and changes we have implemented. We have not fought since Saturday. So that is a good full 2 days without a full blown up argument between us. He has been more attentive and is checking on me throughout the day. 

He even got down in the floor with my daughter and me to play on our blanket pallet we made in the living room. He watched tv with us and just spent some really good quality time with us. It was really nice.

Now, I know it hasn't even been a week. And it will be the "Test of Time" to see if he really has finally figured out things have to changed permanently. 

Ill try to post an update either once a day, or maybe more like every 2-3 days. That way yall don't get bored with me. And if there is any signs that I am missing yall can point them out to me.

But so far, and I do know it could also be he is falling into the cycle of abuse pattern once again (I am not that Naive), but he seems to be trying. And he has already made changes on a few things that I did not believe he would.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wow. He really responds to your leadership.

I just was never able to pull that off, I guess. But hats off to you!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are very cognizant of the challenges you face. You are demanding that he step up to the plate. Now you must see that the two of you follow through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She will, LW. I totally believe she will!


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

Thank you LW and JLD. I believe he is responding because he knows I am extremely serious when I say, if he does not make these changes and really try to work on himself, I am leaving for good.

He said he does not want to lose me. That I am the love of his life. I do believe he truly loves me. Like I said before, I am an instinctual person. I can also get glimpses of what others are feeling at times. It's weird and I figure not everyone will believe me when I say that. But, I have always had a knack for pinpointing how someone is truly feeling. I know in my heart and in my gut he truly does love me. 

I was scared to post anything on this forum in the beginning. It was my first time ever to give a marriage forum a try. I had always read what others had posted and what people had to say to them. But, I am beyond thankful that I DID post my issues. You all have been such a huge help. All the information I got has been wonderful. And now I have a book on its way from Amazon and websites to reference. It allowed me to take a step back and obtain more of an objective view of my situation, rather than solely a subjective view. This has been an awesome experience.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> I realize some of you think I am weak for staying. I do not see it that way. I see it as in I DID marry this person. In Sickness and Health. Through the Good and the Bad. We are dealing with a sickness and a bad time in our marriage. I will not just "give-up" and throw in the towel. Because, I do believe in him, and I do believe he can work through his issues. It will be hard, and will take time. But I believe in us. I am not just going to divorce because right now it is hard. I also do not have any pre-conceived notion of "Prince Charming." That is the most ludicrous statement yet.


Amy:

Sorry but I'm not the touchy-feely type. I think its often masked in dishonesty.

Here's a simple truth about relationships...most of them require leverage on both sides to be successful.

I think there are people who love each other enough and understand each person's value enough that they don't require the a constant balance of power. But that's a rarity, it generally requires a certain amount of time together and its definitely not true of the relationship you're in. 

So I'm going to ask you...what leverage do you have? 

For instance, if you say "husband I want you to change, I mean it"...what he's probably thinking is "or what?"

You have a great positive attitude about your relationship and that's great but my question is...how realistic is it that you've provided him with a long-term reason to change his behavior?

He already sounds like he's too immature to handle his own financial business let alone the needs of a family and you're relying on him to take care of you and your kids. Whether you stay married or not, there's no fricken way I'd rely on someone like that to solely provide for the family without a backup plan.

Its foolish...not just for you but more importantly for your children.

I don't see that he has any impetus to change at all. And I'll bet you're back here complaining long-term. He's going to say all the right things to shut you up temporarily but the real person that needs to change is you. As with most cases like this, he's not the problem.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

how often is payday? because payday is going to be the next cycle of him wanting to spend.

I know you said this isn't about money or rather just about money but money is extremely important.

You talk of love and love is wonderful. I'm glad that he doesn't want to lose you and that he appears to believe that you will leave.

However if you are absolutely firm with him he will backslide and that's not just because he is who he is it's because he's a person and that's how people are.

I'm not sure that 3 months is a sufficient amount of time. keep it open ended. if you'd like most people don't backslide occasionally. The importance and will be how he responds to any corrections you point out.
if resentment against the Dell I think you will know what you're dealing with. with respect to that possibility it would be a good idea for you to put some money away rainy day fund just in case you need to leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

Pay day is every 2 weeks. Which falls on Thursday of this week, tomorrow. I am not going to be gullible in thinking he will be a changed man in 3 months. We are going to re-evaluate every 3 months to make sure there is positive progress. If not, I will leave. I already have a place to go to. I have a very supportive family on my side and am not worried about having no where to live. He knows that. He knows if I leave, I have a place to go. I have a backup plan. That scares him, because he knows he can lose me. It's not just all talk. And he will if the positive changes he is starting to make aren't permanent. 

With that being said, since Sunday. He is talking to me more. He has come home in a much better mood from work. He has helped me out around the house. He has been spending a lot more quality time with me and my daughter. My daughter has even been picking on him and playing with him because she gets so tickled at him. It's been a good few days. But keyword "few" I can only hope it continues to be like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I really think people treat us the way we allow them to treat us. It appears to me you have his attention now and that's great. It looks like he's showing you more respect. I think you've dealth with this in a very positive manner.


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## AmyF (Jun 21, 2014)

Hi. Been a few days since I posted! Sorry. I had the WORST stomach virus last week! 

But I want to let the ones who helped me know things are still going in a positive direction!

He took over with our 1 year old son while I was sick. I even got a day all to myself on Saturday! That is a rarity! He took the kids over to his sisters house and they played forever and had such a great time! 

Payday came and went. But, we did not run into the issues we had been. Bills got paid, I picked up groceries for the next two weeks and divided up the rest for what we would need over the next two weeks. He works for a major mining company, but he just got on with them in April. So until he starts getting his raises funds can be very tight sometimes. He is actually starting to understand that he cannot have everything he wants right away. So that is a positive. We still have a long road ahead of us. But, at least he is starting to "get it."

You guys all helped with your advice and your suggestions. I like to think of myself as being a problem solver, but an outsiders opinion can be the best thing sometimes.

Oh and to the Maritimeguy. I understand you might think I am a pushover and never spoke up before. But, I promise you, I have always held him to a high standard. Over the course of our relationship and subsequent marriage, he has grown so much as a person. Instead of being this immature boy that got his way, he is now a Man that understands you don't always get your way in life and that he must sacrifice for his family. His parents and sisters all love me for the person he has become since being with me. He has changed drastically. It is just he was still holding on to some really selfish ways and taking me for granted. I promise I did not just put up with it. I am not afraid of saying what is on my mind or how I am feeling. So, there have been countless arguments over the past with his treatment of me. He always would apologize in the end and tell me he would "change." But, the "change" never would stick. So far, this time, he has been doing so much better. I just really put my foot down and flat out said I was going to leave him if he did not start straightening up. Before, I would say I had faith in him as a person that he could be a better man he just needed to grow up. Not this time.

Anywho,

Thank you to all of you. Even those with critical reply's. I will keep posting updates over time. If he goes back to how he was before, then I am sure there are some of you who would like to say to me "I told you so." But, I honestly feel like this time, he is finally understanding he is on the brink of losing his family.

I'll try to post again in the next week or so.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Glad things are going well...

I'm wondering though about you dividing up the money. Someone has to do it but I worry that you are going to become his mommy and in the end that never goes well in marriage.

When you can take credit for his growth it tells me that you have been raising him instead of being married to him.


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