# The intricacies of a sexless marriage



## GeekinDisguise (Mar 24, 2010)

I apologize if this post is "all over the place".. but im posting this both to ask for advice, and also to write down my thoughts on things and try to get a handle on what is wrong in my relationship. So I may jump around a bit.

My wife and I have been married 7 years, and it has been sexless for roughly the last two years. 

Sexless, by the way, is defined as 12 times a year or less. 

I could write a book on the ins and outs of our relationship, but ill try to limit it to the most important points.

We are both currently full time students. We have one child and we live far away from any family or friends. We are fairly poor (students usually are), and we are both overweight... but as far as I can tell attraction is not an issue for either of us.

She is the most unique woman ive ever known, which i love about her but also hate at times. You see, she is nothing like the women you see on TV or read in books. She has no self doubt, no emotional hangups, no issues with self esteem. She has never asked me if she was beautiful, or if something made her look fat. She has never shown a shred of jealousy towards anything or anyone. 

The reason I say that I hate this at times is because none of the common advice that men give about dealings with women seems to apply to her. 

I am an introvert. I dislike blatant emotional displays. She is the first and only woman I have ever been with (she had a number of boyfriends before I came along). Because of this I do tend to have some self image/worth issues but nothing extreme. I guess what im saying is that self image is not a defining characteristic for me. Im not sure what else to say about myself... let me just get to the crux of the problem.

We both acknowledge the issue with sex. I am the one seeking to have it, she is the one not giving it. This is not a new occurrence.. we have had conversations about sex issues for more than half of our marriage. Communication is not an issue with us so we both seem to know where the other one stands.

We have tried some marriage counseling but it was unhelpful. We both agreed that the majority of marriage counseling seems to be geared towards telling men what they are doing wrong, and telling women to be patient while their man comes to terms with everything he is doing wrong. Not very "fair" in our opinion.

The problem is this. She has very little sex drive. Between school and housework and being a mother, she just doesnt have the energy for sex too. But she also understands the importance of sex to a successful marriage. I understand how much she has on her plate, and also that she would like me to do more to help alleviate some of the stress on her and give her more energy.

I have taken steps to do so... taking care of my daughter more, trying to pull my weight around the house a bit.. things of that nature. I could definitely do more in this regard. My assistance around the house is not a dependable thing hehe... I tend to do more when im looking to get laid . I also always try and give her the freedom to get out of the house and do things other than work/school/mom. Everyone needs time to themselves after all. But if any of my efforts to make her life easier have worked, she hasnt shown it.

Unfortunately this has brought no change to our sex life. Currently, for 4 weeks I have been trying to instigate sex. Ive cleaned the house, bought spur of the moment gifts, showered her with compliments, tried being cute, funny, confident... ive gotten us time alone... sat down and watched movies with her.. ive made advances.. done everything but strip her down and force her to bed.

Everything has failed. She has acknowledge the "need" for her to "put out" for at least the past few weeks, and every night nothing happens.

One issue we seem to have is with "instigating sex". See, I can put in all that effort to get something started, and then night will come around, the daughter will be in bed, and despite everything ive done in the past to try to instigate sex... she still will not make a move towards me. Its like she acknowledges that I have put in the effort, but then when it actually comes time to "do it" she wants me to put in the effort again.

From my side...I mentioned self image/worth issues. Part of that weakness is that I like to feel like she wants me. So instead of just instigating sex again, I wait for her...because I want to know that she wants it as well, and that im not just forcing her to do a wifely duty.

She says she likes a confident man.. something that im not good at doing . Its not that I lack confidence, its that I care to much about her input on things hah. I dunno, maybe that is a load of bull but thats how I view it . When it comes time to make a decision, I have no issue making it, but ill put in my 2 cents and then get her opinion and we make a decision from there. Is that a lack of confidence?

Im afraid that my wanting her to show desire for me, compounded with my penchant for not putting my foot down with her, and combined with the fact that she takes care of our finances and (this is gonna seem petty) is always the one that drives when we are going somewhere... im afraid that all of that has combined in her mind to make me less of a dominant male in her life, and more of a friend she hangs out with.

Honestly im at the end of my rope. Dont get me wrong id rather spend the rest of my life with her not having sex than having sex with someone else.. but im afraid that as I get shot down and ignored over and over and over again... my anger towards her is going to change my feelings in that regard. I already fear that if it wasnt for my daughter, we would have grown apart already. But neither of us could survive the heartbreak of taking a parent away from our little girl.


So we are making it work. What I wonder though... do you feel that the man should just instigate the sex no matter what? Even if he has been shot down repeatedly.. even if the woman knows damn good and well that he has earned it .. do you still feel that the man should instigate? Or am I right to expect her to reciprocate?

And dont give me the cosmopolitan magazine. I have no interest in the "politically correct" answer. I already know what the answer to that is. Screw that.. I dont care about how fairy tale marriages are supposed to work... I want to know how REAL marriages work for other people. Am I missing something? Am I doing something horribly wrong that is undermining my efforts?


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

One couple set a schedule that she would instigate on particular nights and he would on other nights. I know that doesn't sound romantic or sexy, but it worked for them.

Your wife may be instigating sex in ways that you don't see. Women are more the type to drop a subtle hint, "She has acknowledge the "need" for her to "put out" for at least the past few weeks, and every night nothing happens." That might be her way of instigating it. I know men would prefer the woman grabbed them and had at it, but that's not always our style or what we are comfortable with.

So, start reading between the lines, if she sounds open for sex, chances are, she IS instigating it.


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## GeekinDisguise (Mar 24, 2010)

HappyHer said:


> One couple set a schedule that she would instigate on particular nights and he would on other nights. I know that doesn't sound romantic or sexy, but it worked for them.
> 
> Your wife may be instigating sex in ways that you don't see. Women are more the type to drop a subtle hint, "She has acknowledge the "need" for her to "put out" for at least the past few weeks, and every night nothing happens." That might be her way of instigating it. I know men would prefer the woman grabbed them and had at it, but that's not always our style or what we are comfortable with.
> 
> So, start reading between the lines, if she sounds open for sex, chances are, she IS instigating it.


Hmm. I know the schedule wont work. I mentioned that she is unlike other women but one way that she is alike is that she puts romance above everything else in regards to sex. Something that isnt always possible..which she also acknowledges, but she would never be happy with scheduled sex.

That being said.. your advice to read between the lines is good. Oddly ive never really tried to do so.. and that is a pretty simple thing .

Ill give it a shot. Thanks.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

Sounds a lot like my marriage.

Is less than 12 times a year some sort of official figure? LOL


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## GeekinDisguise (Mar 24, 2010)

psychocandy said:


> Sounds a lot like my marriage.
> 
> Is less than 12 times a year some sort of official figure? LOL


Hah..yah i dunno who actually made it but I was watching a ...cant remember what now. But they stated that a sexless marriage was defined as having sex less than 12 times a year. 

Its official from a medical or psychological perspective or something. Not sure who actually defined it.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

Ah. That'd be me then.

Does other 'services' count do you reckon? LOL.


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## GeekinDisguise (Mar 24, 2010)

psychocandy said:


> Ah. That'd be me then.
> 
> Does other 'services' count do you reckon? LOL.


Hah..I would guess that that is up to the couple .


I have had back troubles before which led to a great deal of oral sex . 

I dunno about you but after a good BJ I dont feel like im hurting for sex, so it qualifies for me hehe.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GeekinDisguise said:


> So we are making it work. What I wonder though... do you feel that the man should just instigate the sex no matter what? Even if he has been shot down repeatedly.. even if the woman knows damn good and well that he has earned it .. do you still feel that the man should instigate? Or am I right to expect her to reciprocate?



I can tell you 1st hand, my husband was ALOT like you, he didn't want to push anything, I had other things on my mind for most of my marraige, I basically took my wonderful husband for granted ! Didn't care all that much for sex, he loved me enough to just wait for me to "come to him" /instigate- while he was off "suffering in silence". Looking back , I really feel he was missing out & allowed himself more pain that he should have put up with and he was denyig me as well, for him not taking command in this department, him not being the dominant force he should have been. 

Sounds like you have good communication though, she must be aware you feel this way, maybe you are needing her to show her desire for you--- and you are truly missing this. Have you ever shared this with her? I know my husband felt I did not desire him much back in the day, and he never talked to me about it. I wish he would have , I would have tried to change things to make his life better. 

INtimacy is something that should be saught after , if she is NOT going to do it, you need to do it - and hopefully more sexual connection will come from this.

If it gets to the point she is UNwilling to give you what you need sexually, dont be foolish enough to state you can live the rest of your life like this- just because you have a daughter. Trust me , you will not be very happy. And you will grow to resent her. Unless you are not a "normal" hot blooded man , of coarse. 

Our sex life improved immensely cause I am more dominate than my husband & when my drive surpassed his, I did not "suffer in silence", I seduced him every chance I got, he loves it ! Do things to spice it up for her. Romance her, I know, I know , this is now sounding like the cosmopolitan replies you did not want to hear.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

i think alot of guys on here share similar issues with their wives and sex. and there are wives that have the problem with their husbands too. i guess i try to keep it simple, if someone WANTS something bad enough, nothing will get in their way to get it. i think your wife is happy with the amount of sex in your marriage, she gets most everything else out of the marriage anyway so why increase frequency if she doesnt need to. you (like me) are the higher drive person, you will likely never get near the sex you desire if things stay on the same track. short of demanding it or else, it isnt going to change


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## GeekinDisguise (Mar 24, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I can tell you 1st hand, my husband was ALOT like you, he didn't want to push anything, I had other things on my mind for most of my marraige, I basically took my wonderful husband for granted ! Didn't care all that much for sex, he loved me enough to just wait for me to "come to him" /instigate- while he was off "suffering in silence". Looking back , I really feel he was missing out & allowed himself more pain that he should have put up with and he was denyig me as well, for him not taking command in this department, him not being the dominant force he should have been.
> 
> Sounds like you have good communication though, she must be aware you feel this way, maybe you are needing her to show her desire for you--- and you are truly missing this. Have you ever shared this with her? I know my husband felt I did not desire him much back in the day, and he never talked to me about it. I wish he would have , I would have tried to change things to make his life better.
> 
> ...


We have discussed it and she does understand that I feel like she doesnt desire sex with me.

Believe me we have discussed it till we are blue in the face. You dont go for 2 years without a good sex life without discussing it ALOT. 

We have both stated our stances on it and we both seem to know where the other is coming from..but it hasnt made much of a difference. In the end we still fall into the same rut we were in to begin with. 

I guess you could say that we are both looking for our sex life to work a certain way.. and the problem is that neither one of us wants to fill the role that the other is looking for us to fill.

One of us could go ahead and sacrifice what we want so that the other could get what they want, but I think we are both worried that if one of us "gives in" then our sex life will become what the other one wants...and the desires of the person who gave in will never be fulfilled.

Perhaps its time to try and approach it from a different angle... just not sure what that angle is yet. There must be a way that we can both make a few small sacrifices and both of us come away satisfied...just not sure how to do that yet.

As for living the rest of my life with a bad sex life... maybe im not the average hot blooded male cause im sure I could do it. Some things are more important than sex... like my daughter... I would suffer in silence for the rest of my life to keep her happy. I know that sounds dramatic and maybe naive, but i dont know how else to put it. She is much more important to me than my sex life or happiness... and im positive my wife feels the same way.


I do hope that that day will come eventually were her hormones will kick in and turn her into a sex fiend . Im a bit worried though because every time she has done something that is supposed to increase her sex drive.. from certain diet pills to certain techniques to pregnancy pills to birth control pills... every time we were told "this could greatly increase your desire for sex"...and every time it had the opposite effect on her hehe. Im worried that when the rest of the women her age are hitting that time in their life where they become horndogs, she is going to turn into a nun. 



> she gets most everything else out of the marriage anyway so why increase frequency if she doesnt need to. you (like me) are the higher drive person, you will likely never get near the sex you desire if things stay on the same track. short of demanding it or else, it isnt going to change


I like the sound of that.. putting my foot down.. giving her an "or else" scenario. Unfortunately I can think of no good way of doing it.

I cant threaten to leave "or else"... because it would be a hollow threat. Also...that isnt a comment you can take back. There will always been that memory of me threatening to leave her.. which may not be something I want knocking around in her head.


Thanks for the feedback everyone.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If you can't learn to be more dominant dominant dominant - you will continue to be celibate. She has no core respect for you. 

Since you don't want PC I will skip all the diplomacy:
- The fact that you haven't had sex in 2 years - and are YOUNG says a huge amount about you. 
- A good marriage has a healthy mix of beta/alpha behavior - when she stopped having sex with you it was likely an attempt to get you to be WAY MORE ALPHA and it totally failed because you didn't get aggressive. 

Lets start with the fatigue thing. That is a flat out lie. Don't get me wrong - she is tired sometimes - but that is NOT the reason she won't have sex with you. She is simply NOT attracted to you - mostly a behavioral thing on your part is my guess. 

The fact that you talk in circles and contradict yourself is exactly what a beta does when they are being jerked around. This whole question of whether a man is beta or alpha is often oversimplified - you need a mix of BOTH behaviors for a successful marriage. But when your partner shuts off a core need - you talk/act constructively for a short while and then you begin to do what is needed to get YOUR needs met. WHATEVER that is. 

So - enough theory and now some specific suggestions:
- Start demanding that certain things go the way you want. I don't mean get loud and yell - BE FIRM. When there is a choice briefly explain what you want to do - if she doesn't object - START moving ahead. If she does - listen and then unless she has raised a really good point you hadn't thought of say - "I understand why you want to do this differently - we are going to do it my way" 
- Start going to the gym - just because she is ok with being fat doesn't mean that you have to be. And just because SHE is ok with herself being fat doesn't mean she is ok with you being fat. Life is unfair that way. MORE to the point - she will find you more attractive if other women find you more attractive. So GET IN SHAPE. 
- Stop saying and/or thinking you would rather be celibate rest of your life with her - then having sex with another woman. She doesn't have a low sex drive - she just isn't attracted to YOU right now likely because you are so conflict avoidant. And from what you described SHE won't be ok with no sex for rest of HER life - she will leave you eventually if you don't fix YOU.
- As you start to get in shape - start hitting the basic female sexual desire triggers. Playfully overpower her and pin her against the wall and kiss her - during the day. And then walk away smiling. 

If you aren't willing to treat this like a project - get in shape - be more dominant - you are unlikely to solve this problem. The real issue is she doesn't respect you. 

A wife who respects her man would NEVER starve him of sex for 2 years and would never repeatedly promise sex and not deliver. 

Oh yeah - she probably likes mildly rough sex - and you probably have no idea how to do that. Go read some posts about pinning a woman down - spanking her - talking to her in a really dominant way. MOST women - this stuff makes them crazily turned on. I bet it would work wonders for you. 



















GeekinDisguise said:


> I apologize if this post is "all over the place".. but im posting this both to ask for advice, and also to write down my thoughts on things and try to get a handle on what is wrong in my relationship. So I may jump around a bit.
> 
> My wife and I have been married 7 years, and it has been sexless for roughly the last two years.
> 
> ...


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## GeekinDisguise (Mar 24, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> If you can't learn to be more dominant dominant dominant - you will continue to be celibate. She has no core respect for you.
> 
> Since you don't want PC I will skip all the diplomacy:
> - The fact that you haven't had sex in 2 years - and are YOUNG says a huge amount about you.
> ...



Hmm.. interesting take on it. You make some assumptions that just arent true for our relationship, but you do have a few valid points that ill consider.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

You seem to have good communication in your marriage which leads me to believe that your wife is being honest when she says work/school/mom leaves her feeling no desire for sex.

One thing I hope you can learn to realize is that no desire for sex <> no desire for you. When I feel my life is in robot mode...work...bills...kids...housework...yardwork...taxes...seems to just start all over the next day...my sex drive disappears too. I feel no desire for having sex...If she is feeling this way, I would not sit back and wait for her to initiate...if she is a willing partner when you initiate, yay for you 

When I am feeling overwhelmed, having an understanding husband helps but what helps even more is when he steps up and takes action...helping out around the house when you want sex = selfish....helping out from now on = wanting your wife to be happy/less stressed.

It sounds as though you already know she carries a large burden...finances, driving everywhere...just gives me the feeling she does it all because it needs to get done...as if she cannot rely on you to pick up and do these things on your own...that's where you will have the most impact, IMO...if you make real permanent changes here....it is related to somewhat to being dominant and taking charge as MEM says above.

I also have no desire to be spanked or have rough sex so tread carefully there...you know your wife better than anyone else...if you want to change things up in the bedroom I'd recommend talking to her first...taking charge is one thing, but getting rough is a whole different thing...just my thoughts on MEM's post on that.

I would recommend lightening her load...figure out a way (if possible) to go on dates...have some romantic down-time where she can really relax & she can connect that to you making it happen...cuddling/touching/kissing is also important especially when it doesn't always have the expectation for sex...because it will make her feel emotionally close to you


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## GeekinDisguise (Mar 24, 2010)

Update

Well we had a talk. It went well, I brought up some stuff that I thought was applicable that yall brought up here, and that opened up some new dialog.

There is a respect issue there but it isnt about me "taking charge" and being the prototypical chauvinist. Its more about me not stepping up and doing things that im capable of doing myself, and leaving them as extra things for her to take care of.

So ive been working on that. We talked about some other stuff, I aired out a few issues I was having with our relationship, including her apparent disregard for everything I DO do right .

We needed to get my daughter on a better sleeping schedule so that we would have more free time at night.. so to celebrate my new understanding of what she wants from me I stayed up and got the daughter up early, so that she could be put down much earlier as well. 

So we had alot more time together last night (even though I was so tired I dont remember half the night hah), but the good news is she finally put out :smthumbup:

unfortunately she is already abusing my efforts to be more "do it yourself" by shirking some of her responsibilities and leaving them for me to take care of 

Ill have to leave some dirty clothes out for her to pick up to compensate :rofl:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GeekinDisguise said:


> I do hope that that day will come eventually were her hormones will kick in and turn her into a sex fiend . Im a bit worried though because every time she has done something that is supposed to increase her sex drive.. from certain diet pills to certain techniques to pregnancy pills to birth control pills... every time we were told "this could greatly increase your desire for sex"...and every time it had the opposite effect on her hehe. Im worried that when the rest of the women her age are hitting that time in their life where they become horndogs, she is going to turn into a nun.



I have never heard of diet pills spiking the sex drive & all hormonal birth control pills DAMPER it (Generally for most women). 

One wife on here started a whole thread about the HUGE intensive spike in her sex drive after she stopped the pill, she wanted it sooooo much that she thought her husband no longer desired her, cause when she was on the pill, her drive was so low, he was used to having sex once a month! 
Then she was dealing with a ton of guilt because she finally understood how HE was feeling all those years, being sexually frustrated. He loved her enough to deal with once a month.

Thankfully for them, her getting off those birth control pills, was THE ANSWER for "her desire" coming back full swing. 

(Granted, most women do not have that dramatic of a difference after the pill, but hey, you never know!)

Is your wife on the pill ?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Protocol is that if I make invalid assumptions you correct me as to where I am wrong. Just telling me I am part right and part wrong is not helpful if you wish further input. 

If you don't want to clarify that is fine - I will stop posting on this thread. I will say though that when it comes to CONSISTENTLY evoking a highly sexual response in marriage I have been exceptionally successful in my marriage. Maybe what works for me won't work for you. BUT I will say that most guys who post about their sexless marriages sound very very similar to one another. And most guys who post that their wives are highly sexual with them - have similar/the same approach to their wives that I do.






GeekinDisguise said:


> Hmm.. interesting take on it. You make some assumptions that just arent true for our relationship, but you do have a few valid points that ill consider.


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## Brettscout (Jan 19, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I can tell you 1st hand, my husband was ALOT like you, he didn't want to push anything, I had other things on my mind for most of my marraige, I basically took my wonderful husband for granted ! Didn't care all that much for sex, he loved me enough to just wait for me to "come to him" /instigate- while he was off "suffering in silence". Looking back , I really feel he was missing out & allowed himself more pain that he should have put up with and he was denyig me as well, for him not taking command in this department, him not being the dominant force he should have been.
> 
> Sounds like you have good communication though, she must be aware you feel this way, maybe you are needing her to show her desire for you--- and you are truly missing this. Have you ever shared this with her? I know my husband felt I did not desire him much back in the day, and he never talked to me about it. I wish he would have , I would have tried to change things to make his life better.
> 
> ...


Problem I have with this sort of "gender role" thinking is that I think its sorta BS. I have been married 10 years...2 kids, love my wife...and we have a decent sex life...not amazing. She works, I work, kids have needs...there is alot going on here for both of us. 

We both work-out...take care of ourselves...look good...healthy...so I dont think its a physical attractiveness thing.

My wife is one of those "passive sexual types" vary rarely does she initiate the advance. 95% of the time, its me thats doing the flirting, me thats making the suggestive comments. For the most part im sorta fine with this, but what gets to me is the fact that ~60% of the time, its rejection (too tired/not intrested at the moment)...or what feels like a sympathy lay because what she really would like to do is go to sleep quickly. Thats the other part....Sex in our marriage has lately (6 months) been a race for me against the clock. I have about a 30min window to get the kids to bed and get her motor running...or she's asleep by 8:30...and once she's asleep, god help me if I tried anything to wake her.

The other thing that gets me...is that we have a Liberator and some toys, lacey stuff....most of the time its "just too much work" to pull all that stuff out...and other times when I pull it out to have some fun...I get that "look" of "geesh...really? tonight? mmmmm....ok...but hurry up....am I on top or you?" 

But in those >10% times when she initiates something....it's expected that I be "johnny on the spot, uber excited and very thankful"

I guess its frustrating and taxing over the years to have to be the primary one to have to have the "role" of laying it emotionally out there to be accepted or rejected, do the work and set up the atmosphere for "the mood."


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I just wouldn't tolerate this. I am really good at taking care of long list of wife's wants/needs - so this kind of sexual indifference just would not be acceptable. I know I am very lucky because wife was really good about either saying yes (which was most nights) or can we connect tomorrow - and then she would follow through the next night.

A generally crappy attitude about sex just wouldn't fly with me. It would generate the following question (which I have only asked due to OTHER issues 2 - 3 times in our 20+ year marriage): 

What do you think I will do if you act like this after our youngest child has left for school?

I simply ask that question and then listen. Like I said - 3 times in 20+ years - but each time it created the desired response. And I WAS NOT kidding. I don't ever want to get divorced but I have certain minimum requirements. For me - this wasn't about sex - wife is great in the department - it was about not feeling like she respected me. 




Brettscout said:


> Problem I have with this sort of "gender role" thinking is that I think its sorta BS. I have been married 10 years...2 kids, love my wife...and we have a decent sex life...not amazing. She works, I work, kids have needs...there is alot going on here for both of us.
> 
> We both work-out...take care of ourselves...look good...healthy...so I dont think its a physical attractiveness thing.
> 
> ...


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