# This is so hard....



## LessOfaMan (Jul 8, 2012)

I don't want to leave...

I feel like I have no choice, we've been trying to patch things up for the last 5 of the 7 years we've been together. I can't walk away and leave my boys, become 'the weekend Dad' but I've been trying so hard to put up with it for their sake.

Everyone says that it's better for them to walk away from a bad marriage, but what about being there for them, leaving them to deal with it on their own. they are both under 6 and I've been a huge influence on their lives.
I have started to be unable to let things spill over, they've sat through some bad times, and we've both mellowed a lot recently, they are just starting to let their guards down and feel like Dads not going anywhere, I can't **** them up by dropping this on them just because I can't take it with their mother.

She has a lot she will throw at me, she was meticulous enough to run too feminist groups, and refuges when we rowed, and be in contact with a domestic abuse counselors, and the police. The picture she has painted of me is less than desirable, and complete nonsense.
I am genuinely concerned for my, and my children's safety, should I go ahead and leave. It could be the trigger that sets her off. I've had to stop her from committing suicide on more than one occasion.
I do love her, and really care for her well being, we have just grown in different directions, we've both tried so hard to make it work, but the love just isn't there anymore, there's too much water under the bridge, and has been for too long now.

I've been looking at apartments, and fantasizing about being able to return there after work, cook some dinner and relax, spending real quality time with the kids when I see them, my life is for the first time going well for me, but I don't think I can live like this for the next 15 years.

I feel so alone, so scared, so as my name suggests, less of a man.

I'm a good person, and I want the best for everyone, but I can't keep shutting off myself. I don't know where to turn, how to think or feel anymore, and now I'm off to sit down and pretend everything is ok during tea...


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## LessOfaMan (Jul 8, 2012)

I guess that's just the narcissist in me, expecting people who have no idea about me, or my situation being able to help me. 
It does feel better to get it off my chest although somewhat lacking in the area of making a blind bit of difference!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Less, welcome to the TAM forum. I'm so sorry to hear that you and your W are suffering so much pain together.


> I can't **** [my boys] up by dropping this on them just because I can't take it with their mother.


The issue is not whether you can "take it" but, rather, whether they will have a better childhood environment watching the fighting or -- instead -- being with you separately in shared custody.


> She has a lot she will throw at me, she was meticulous enough to run too feminist groups, and refuges when we rowed, and be in contact with a domestic abuse counselors, and the police. The picture she has painted of me is less than desirable, and complete nonsense.


How bad was it? Did she seem to be utterly convinced you were guilty of her outrageous accusations when she was making them to the police? I ask because I've had similar experiences and they may shed light on yours if you will tell us more. My exW, for example, ended our 15 year marriage by having me arrested and thrown into jail on a bogus charge -- enabling her to throw me out of my own home for the 18 months it takes in this State to get a divorce.


> I am genuinely concerned for my, and my children's safety, should I go ahead and leave. It could be the trigger that sets her off.


Specifically, what are you afraid she might do to harm you or your children? What evidence do you have that she has been emotionally unstable in the past? For example, does she do a lot of black-white thinking? That is, does she categorize everyone as "all good" (i.e., "with me") or "all bad" ("against me")? And does she recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or infraction? Does she throw temper tantrums that are triggered in 10 seconds by some minor event and that usually last only a few hours? Does she have trouble trusting you, often doubting that you truly love her?


> I've had to stop her from committing suicide on more than one occasion.


Was she only threatening suicide (as a way of controlling you) or, rather, did she actually follow through so completely that you are certain she would have succeeded? Also, has she done any other forms of self harm such as cutting her arms with a blade?


> My life is for the first time going well for me, but I don't think I can live like this for the next 15 years.


I hope you won't try. I lived like that for 15 years with my exW and it did not end well. I spent a small fortune on taking her to six different psychologists for weekly therapy, all to no avail. And I followed my exW to a tall bridge on several occasions when she was deeply depressed. I was walking protectively behind her. 

When I stopped following her to the bridge, she stopped going there. Instead, she started calling from the subway platform, telling me she was going to jump in front of the next train, and then hanging up. When I stopped running down to the subway station, she stopped doing that too.


> I feel so alone, so scared, so as my name suggests, less of a man.


Yes, I know the feeling. As likely happened to you, I was raised to be the "little man" of the family, i.e., the "fixer." The result is that our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). We are excessive caregivers -- to the point that we feel emasculated when we aren't able to "fix" a loved one. Never mind that such a task is impossible for us to achieve.

For caregivers like us, the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema. It goes against our family values, our religious training, our sense of purpose -- indeed, against every fiber of our being. Yet, when a loved one is refusing to take responsibility for her own actions and seek therapy, walking away usually is what we should do. Otherwise, we are destroying what likely is her best chance of learning to confront her issues and learning how to manage them. But your prime consideration, of course, should be doing what is in the best interests of your two boys.


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## LessOfaMan (Jul 8, 2012)

The suicidal incidents have mostly been threats, or more say unenthusiastic attempts, when she knew that I would stop her.

I promised that I would never let her go, and be there for her when we first met, but that's all gone now. It's simply a matter of doing what is best for my boys.
The most recent significant incident has proven too much for me to be able to 'let go' or 'put behind me'
With regards to the cleverly constructed image authoritues have of me, It's more a matter of accusation, and provided I maintain a level head, I should be able to portray the truth should it come to it.

Harm..Yes, I have seriously wondered whilst being given cups of coffee, weather or not I should be drinking it.
The situation in which I sit her down and tell her that I am leaving her, is as much heart breaking as it is scary. I anticipate a strong will to begin with, calm and capable, but after a few days, I will be getting phone-calls saying she's off overseas, or leaving the boys with me as I'm leaving for work. She sees my job as a full blown enemy, at first, when I hated my job I saw it as her hating something that was causing me stress and anxiety, but I've since changed industries, and I'm excelling and enjoying it.

My BIGGEST concern is weather or not it's right for my children.
Now, I don't know, if their lives would be better without me there day to day or not.
She isn't what you would call your typical mother. I'm worried that as she spirals further into misery, they will get dragged along. I can see it now, packing them up on a Sunday evening, "Why can't we stay with you" "Why can't you come home" "why have you abandoned us"
Surely I'm better off just sticking it out, and avoiding all the arguments?


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

You made the mistake of not having those suicide attempts documented. If you had, you would have gotten custody of the kids if you divorced. If you want the kids, that is. I'm not sure since you feel divorce means being a weekend dad.

From now on, you should keep a VAR (voice activated recorder) going. Probably a few of them around the house. And, install some nanny cams. If she has lied on you in this picture she paints, you will have proof of who is the real problem, and can gain custody that way.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Less, it would be helpful to know the answers to several other questions I raised: What evidence do you have that she has been emotionally unstable in the past? For example, does she categorize everyone as "all good" (i.e., "with me") or "all bad" ("against me")? And does she recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or infraction? 

Also, does she throw temper tantrums that are triggered in 10 seconds by some minor event and that usually last only a few hours? Does she have trouble trusting you, often doubting that you truly love her no matter how hard you try to convince her?


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## LessOfaMan (Jul 8, 2012)

Uptown said:


> she categorize everyone as "all good" (i.e., "with me") or "all bad" ("against me")? And does she recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or infraction?
> 
> Also, does she throw temper tantrums that are triggered in 10 seconds by some minor event and that usually last only a few hours? Does she have trouble trusting you, often doubting that you truly love her no matter how hard you try to convince her?


All of this.

Although not so much the all with/without me so easily thing. She trusts people far to much in the intrim and leaves herself open to hurt when they don't respond how she wants them to. She'll drain a person and when they are of no use, figure they don't want anything to do with her.

To be honest, I don't really want to talk about her, I've done enough, it's the children, and my personal sanity that I am concerned about now.

I don't like the idea of VAR or nanny cams, it would be hard to implement, and feels a bit evil.
I do regret not calling the police or an ambulance on her last attempt, but I didn't want her to suffer. I would happily take the children full time, organise a nanny or after school care, but it's not exactly as easy as that. I haven't even found a place to live yet. I'm new to my current job, and have to be very careful how I balance it all.
The area I lack the most in is balance, and everything seems to need it's own level, tweaking and customizing until it's right, but when faced with having to do it all at once, although possible, it's so draining. I'm on the last little bit of juice I have left, just coming home after work is enough to get the heart racing and near panic attacks!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LessOfaMan said:


> To be honest, I don't really want to talk about her, I've done enough, it's the children, and my personal sanity that I am concerned about now.


It’s important that you do tell us some about her as knowing more about her helps us understand your situation.
For example you seem afraid to leave her and get a divorce because of the children… do you think that she would harm the children if you left?



LessOfaMan said:


> I don't like the idea of VAR or nanny cams, it would be hard to implement, and feels a bit evil.


There is nothing evil about protecting yourself. If you refuse to do what you can to make sure you can prove that you are innocent of her charges, then you are accepting whatever she tells people. You may never have to use a recording, but you would have it if you need it.


LessOfaMan said:


> I do regret not calling the police or an ambulance on her last attempt, but I didn't want her to suffer.


How would calling an ambulance when he attempts suicide make her suffer? You have to get a record of these attempts. She will most likely do it again. The next time call an ambulance and the police. If she’s playing with suicide it’s very likely that she will have success one time.. she only needs to slip up one time. So get her the help she needs. It’s she’s using suicide threats as a way to get attention calling the police and an ambulance should snap her out of this game.


LessOfaMan said:


> I would happily take the children full time, organise a nanny or after school care, but it's not exactly as easy as that. I haven't even found a place to live yet. I'm new to my current job, and have to be very careful how I balance it all.


Why would you have to move out of the family home if you are taking the children? Offer to help her get a place. Hire a nanny. When I was alone with my son and working a demanding job as an engineer I hired a nanny. It worked great.



LessOfaMan said:


> The area I lack the most in is balance, and everything seems to need it's own level, tweaking and customizing until it's right, but when faced with having to do it all at once, although possible, it's so draining. I'm on the last little bit of juice I have left, just coming home after work is enough to get the heart racing and near panic attacks!


You will feel a lot better if you have a plan and are working a plan.
See if you can get her to agree to move out of the family home. Then rent her a small place., or have her go move in with her family.

Start interviewing nannies so that you have someone lined up.
See an attorney about a divorce; let the attorney do the work on that so that you have very little stress.

I’m sure you can break those own into smaller steps and start doing the work.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

LessOfaMan said:


> I don't really want to talk about her....


Less, as EleGirl observes, we can help you better if you give us some clue as to what you are dealing with. Given that this woman is raising your children, it is important you understand what is causing her strange behavior. The behaviors you describe -- her throwing temper tantrums that are easily triggered in 10 seconds, rapid flips between loving you and hating you, fabricating elaborate lies about you to the police, and repeatedly threatening suicide -- are signs that she may have strong traits of a personality disorder (PD). 

Only a professional can determine whether your W's behavioral traits are so severe as to constitute a full blown PD. I therefore suggest that you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. 

Moreover, if you will take time to read about them, you are fully capable of spotting the red flags (i.e., strong occurrences of the traits) of a PD. There is nothing subtle about traits such as temper tantrums, vindictive lies, and suicide threats. Because my exW is like that, you may benefit by looking at my description of her behavior in Maybe's thread. My three posts there start at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522.


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