# Am I being paranoid or just I'm just putting my head in the sand?



## johnnahak (Nov 26, 2020)

I'm currently shaking and biting my nails so hard while I'm typing this.

I'm looking for advice. Long story short, we've been together for 15 years. Married for 10. We both are 36 and have 2 kids.

Our relationship declined after getting married. I always am the one initiating hugs and kisses. Bedroom is quite dead. She's never in the mood. Been like that for years. We do it once every 3 months. I got used to jacking off.

We have fights, but never big ones. Always about the same thing: her lack of discipline in house chores, her damn phone - she's always texting or watching stuff, her lack of patience with the kids, her mess and clutter. She recently bought new clothes, did her nails (which she never did before), taking more care of her appearance. She also disabled her facebook location sharing and her online status.

A few months ago, after a fight, she told me that the flame is not lit anymore. She didn't love me as much as before. She told me she wanted to move out without divorcing or separating and we should do 50/50 custody for the kids. She wants to move out BUT want us to stay a couple so we both could have a break of parenting. So living apart together with 50/50 custody for the kids. She said living in separate houses would help us. She cried. Asked her why you want to leave then? We could do counselling? She said it won't solve anything.

I was okay with that. Made me sad, but I need to be alone. I needed this break. I am an independant person and I miss being alone.

The following weeks were hard. She was cold and distant and I was too. But I was sad and I think she was too. But then, we had a big fight and I noticed she had changed her facebook status to single. I confronted her, she told me she doesn't think we are a couple anymore.

I agreed to buy her share of the house but I can't afford it so couldn't get a loan. She couldn't get her own loan either. Dust settled after a few weeks and we agreed to work on our ourselves and our relationship. But she never changed her facebook relationship status back to in a relationship. Once again, I asked her, she doesn't know what we are anymore. I need to win her back. I need to make myself interesting to her. Told her it doesn't work like that. She also need to win me back. She said no, I need to win her back, not the opposite.

A few weeks later, someone with a fake FB account contacted me sent me a screenshot of a Tinder profile he came upon a few weeks earlier. My jaw dropped. That was her!!! Confronted her right away, she told me she was pissed off at me so she installed it to make me angry. I made her show me her phone. She opened the App. But she told me her profile was disabled. She enabled it while I was watching. A few pics, no introduction text, a few interests were listed. She did a couple swipes and DM but nothing on her part. She told me that she disabled her account as soon as she swiped and she never cheated on me.

Dust settled down again.

While she was taking a shower, I logged on to her laptop and she forgot to log out from facebook.

This guy. This f**** guy. A guy she previously said that was part of her hiking group. A guy that likes every of her FB posts. A married guy with kids. I scroll. Then I come across this bizzare chat with him. This is only a transcribed part of it, I took screenshot and omitted all those stupid emojis

(G for guy - H for her)

G: You're really cute with that new haircut
H: Thanks

G: (he sends a pic of himself in his bath-only his legs) - Come hug me
H: (she sends a heart emoji to the picture) Yeah, I'm at work right now

G: So you don't want?
H: Yes

G: Send me a pic
H: I can't my boss is watching me

G: Can't wait to see my favorite girl on friday!
H: 🙋‍♀️

G: Give me a blowjob. You never did it. I eat you out but you don't blow me. It's not fair.
H: I can't, I don't see you very often

G: I hope you give me a real good blowjob when we'll see each other
H: she sends this emoji, don't know what it means exactly: 🤷‍♀️

Is this simply some kind of friendly banter or something else is going on?

Also, from her search history, it looks like she's checking out this guy's wife FB profile every other day. Why? That's weird. So that's it for now. I'm totally panicking right but I don't want to blow up my cover. She's been acting strange lately, she bought me a present (which she rarely does).

She told me that she had a few appointments on friday but both are really early in the morning. So from 10 am to 5 pm, she is basically on her own.

I don't wanna be paranoid, but am I right to be concerned?


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Your situation brought back a situation of mine with an ex... 


The Tinder profile should be one of the main ACTIONS she took, to show you where you stand. The fact that she got pissed off when you discovered it and confronted her was a deflection of her not owning up to her actions. 

From what you have said, she sounds very immature and entitled. She believes you should fight for her, whilst she just sits there like a Disney Princess and soaks it up.

Your description paints the picture of a person who wanted a wedding, but not to be a wife.

Now as to the 'chat'...

No, you are not paranoid. It might serve you best to go even deeper into 'detective' mode. GPS tracker on her vehicle, recording devices etc.

Honestly though? If your wife is tolerating talks about blowjobs with any man other than you, it's a clear sign she has checked out, and badly. Her wanting to stay married but live separately, whilst proclaiming to the world that she is 'single', speaks volumes of her character, let alone how she perceives you (i.e. Does not respect you at all). 

I don't mean what i have said to sound harsh, but I have somewhat been where you are. Unless you take charge of the situation for your own well being and sanity, it will not improve.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

How much proof do you need? Video evidence?
Your wife is cheating on you, she has told you she doesn’t love you, she has a tinder profile, she lets another man “eat her out” and as far as anyone is concerned she is single. 
Jeez man open your eyes.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

G: Give me a blowjob. "You never did it. I eat you out but you don't blow me. It's not fair."

Tells me they were together and she had promised a BJ and he as been performing oral sex on her. Did you take photos. Contact his wife and show her the texts of her hubby talking about having eaten your wife's 😺.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I am very concerned about .... YOU! He has eaten her out!!!! She has a Tinder profile, She cannot send him naughty pics at the moment because ... her boss is watching! Not she is married or anything else!! She is going to see him oin Friday and he is going to claim his blowjob this time!

She is checking his wife out to see if she can replace her. This is called monkey branching, She will not let go of her current branch (you) until she has a firm grip on the next branch (him).

There is absolutely no doubt here and what is most concerning is that you are asking if you should be concerned.

Keep all your proof (take snapshots or whatever). Consult an attorney to protect yourself including custody of kids etc as best as you can and file for divorce. Then expose this to the other betrayed spouse (OBS) without telling anyone you are going to do it. Make sure your message and proof if you have it gets through to her and only her. If the POS intercepts it he will destroy it and start preparing his defence i.e. to make you look like some crazy jealous husband.

Then expose to others - family and friends. Then serve her with divorce papers.

Do not hesitate. In the meantime start working on healing yourself mentally (the 180) and physically (eat well, exercise, dress well etc).

Good luck!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cant believe you are asking if this is just friendly banter! They are describing sexual acts they have done. 
I would contact the OM's wife and send her the texts. They are cheating. The next step is up to you.
Sounds as if she has been cheating for ages and her wanting to move out(and how can you possibly move out without separating) was so that she could cheat more easily.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Sorry for where you are. Your wife is having sex with this guy. Sounds like a winner. /s Doesn't matter. She is having fun. You are miserable. She's probably enjoying that. It's a cruel thing. How much more do you need to know? Knowing more is generally important only where someone isn't sure they can make a decision based on what they already know.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

johnnahak said:


> A few months ago, after a fight, she told me that the flame is not lit anymore. ... She told me she wanted to move out without divorcing or separating and we should do 50/50 custody for the kids. ... We could do counselling? She said it won't solve anything.


I'm sorry.

She's probably right it won't fix it. If she's really lost the flame for you, and found someone else, there's not much a counsellor can do. And it sounds like she doesn't _want_ that fixed.

Her terms sound reasonable. If she's not going to make false accusations to get you barred from seeing your children or any of that kind of nonsense, if she's going to be somewhat civilised about it, then I would accept those terms. You need to clarify up front whether you are "allowed" to "see" other women.

Do not let her pick a fight or argument with you. She may try to provoke one. Be as neutral and bland as you can.



johnnahak said:


> "G: Give me a blowjob. You never did it. I eat you out but you don't blow me. It's not fair."


That seems entirely unambiguous! And, this "G" may lose interest rapidly once she's a free agent. Hence why you need to get your terms of separation clear right now.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I would contact the OM's wife and send her the texts.


I think there's nothing to gain from that. You don't want to make her an enemy. She has a loaded gun and two hostages.


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## johnnahak (Nov 26, 2020)

Good morning. Thanks everyone for your replies, I'll take the time to read them again a second time. 
After a inexistant night of sleep, I woke up shaking. Looked at the screenshots. Still trying to figure out what is going on. They do mess a lot with each other. But can't get the idea that he ate her out of my head, if its true.

Thinking of a plan, I checked out his wife's FB profile. She posted something on her timeline this morning. She tagged him in the post. She announced her friends and family that she is pregnant and they were awaiting another child. 

The timing couldn't be worst. 

And IF my wife was faithful and they were just messing around jokingly (maybe its an inside joke or something?), I'll feel like an ass.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

johnnahak said:


> And IF my wife was faithful and they were just messing around jokingly (maybe its an inside joke or something?), I'll feel like an ass.


How could that possibly be an inside joke? Stop looking for excuses...


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

johnnahak said:


> Good morning. Thanks everyone for your replies, I'll take the time to read them again a second time.
> After a inexistant night of sleep, I woke up shaking. Looked at the screenshots. Still trying to figure out what is going on. They do mess a lot with each other. But can't get the idea that he ate her out of my head, if its true.
> 
> Thinking of a plan, I checked out his wife's FB profile. She posted something on her timeline this morning. She tagged him in the post. She announced her friends and family that she is pregnant and they were awaiting another child.
> ...


Oh brother. You want to believe it's possibly not true. You are in for a miserable ride.


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## johnnahak (Nov 26, 2020)

I feel like a fool being played like that. It's just I don't realize how naive I am yet. lol  I'm like a kid who believes in santa. 
I really want closure before, I want to see it for myself but I'm 100% sure I'll never get it from her mouth. 
Every time I told her in the past that I suspected something and asked her if she ever cheated on me, all I got was "Wow! You think I'm like that? I'm not cheating on you. Wow so that's what you think of me!"

This morning she archived her chat with the OM but its still there, only hidden. 

One part of me would like to follow her to find out about her real whereabouts... Wish I had this guy address so I could park nearby and see if shes going there.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

johnnahak said:


> I feel like a fool being played like that. It's just I don't realize how naive I am yet. lol  I'm like a kid who believes in santa.
> I really want closure before, I want to see it for myself but I'm 100% sure I'll never get it from her mouth.
> Every time I told her in the past that I suspected something and asked her if she ever cheated on me, all I got was "Wow! You think I'm like that? I'm not cheating on you. Wow so that's what you think of me!"
> 
> ...


You are going to eat yourself up with this. My advice is stop where you are. For the sake of your sanity.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

johnnahak, I'm sorry you are going through this **** show!



johnnahak said:


> G: Give me a blowjob. You never did it. I eat you out but you don't blow me. It's not fair.


Your wife IS physically cheating!
You know what's happening!
Car sex and blow jobs are not fun, no wonder she wants her own place!
I don't know about you, but I can never kiss a women known she was given a blowjobs to some random dudes!

Brother, if you say you are:


johnnahak said:


> independant person and I miss being alone.


Then start acting like one!
She is checked out!
And you are pining after her = not attractive!
Show strength, don't plead, beg or cry!
Don't do the pick me dance!
Women love strong men!
Keep your dignity and pride intact!

Start getting angry for the years this women took from you!
And yes, blow out their affair, inform the other man's betrayed wife (OBS), show her the evidence!
Inform her family and friends that she is cheating on you and you are moving on!
Do all that in one go without her known, until her phone blows up from her family and friends!
Focus on yourself, start hitting the gym, lose weight if you need to (look at intermittent fasting on youtube) and keto diet
Work on yourself and be the best version of yourself!
Prepare yourself for the future you're only 36!
Show her what she lost!

At her age with two kids and her history as a cheater, she will struggle a lot to find a stable relationship, all she will find is pump and dump style dudes, or very low quality men!
She will come to realize what she lost!

What ever you lose you can rebuild BUT don't waste more years of your life with her because you can never get those years back!



johnnahak said:


> I feel like a fool being played like that. It's just I don't realize how naive I am yet. lol  I'm like a kid who believes in santa.


Go through this forum and read old stories, you will come to realize that *naive *and *weak *betrayed spouses struggle to find their way and live happy, they are their own worst enemy!
The door is right there in front of them, yet they choose to remain in limbo and are to scared to open and walk out!
They live in misery for years to come, years they can never get back!
This world doesn't cater for the weak and cowered!
DON'T BE LIKE THEM!


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Your wife made it very clear... She's at minimum getting eaten out by this guy and he wants to go further. I highly doubt she has appointments on Friday, unless it's an appointment with this guy.

So you want to find out? Call her so-called appointments and say your wife forgot the appointment time, if she doesn't have an appointment... there is your answer. You can also track her location by putting a GPS tracker or old phone in her car.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

What are you waiting for? A cheater to tell you the truth?
you have got solid advice here but now VAR her car. Or pay a PI to investigate her for a week. 
gather all evidence and go scorched earth. You must be willing to lose this marriage to save it. Although I don’t it’s worth saving. Start doing the 180 on her. Get a lawyer, get STD tested and then when you are ready tell other BS, your family and friends. Don’t tell her anything. You need to get your game face on. Tell her your done.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Yes you are right -- it says in the conversation that you have that he gave her oral sex -- so, YES she is cheating. That is why she wants her time to herself -- so she can have sex with other guys but still keep you around to babysit the kids and be PLAN B.
Pretty clear cut -- see a lawyer, get YOUR plan together, make sure your financials, child custody/support, etc. are figured out, and then drop the papers in her lap.
Make plans to sell the house, find yourself an apartment for now with bedroom(s) for the kids for when you have them. Let HER figure out her own stuff. She wants to be on her own, LET HER.

NEVER tell her where you saw this stuff. You don't need to tell her -- she KNOWS she's been cheating. You should have screen shot those coversations (I hope you did) and keep them someplace where she can't find them (email them to a new account someplace).
She is trying to through you off with buying presents, etc. OR she felt a bit guilty for something she did. Don't let her manipulate you with this.

When women are done, they are usually REALLY DONE. YOU need to get to that place also.
DO the 180 (180 for Betrayed Spouses ) -- this will help you start to detach.

If you REALLY need to know, hire a PI to follow her for a week or two -- you will find out soon enough.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

aine said:


> What are you waiting for? A cheater to tell you the truth?
> you have got solid advice here but now VAR her car. Or pay a PI to investigate her for a week.
> gather all evidence and go scorched earth. You must be willing to lose this marriage to save it. Although I don’t it’s worth saving. Start doing the 180 on her. Get a lawyer, get STD tested and then when you are ready tell other BS, your family and friends. Don’t tell her anything. You need to get your game face on. Tell her your done.


I'm not sure saving the marriage should be the first objective. I don't think he should go about things that way, in any event. OP needs to do what is right for him.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She’s been cheating since she started dressing better.
She’s told you she doesn’t love you. Yes, she’s screwing married men, plainly.
She says she’s single.

you’ve got to keep your dignity and divorce her. Plain and simple. For you to keep trying to “catch her” at this point , is just so pointless. You’ve caught her already, she’s not hiding it, and she’s told you she doesn’t love you and considers herself single.
Sir, she is not the only woman in the world. Holy poo you would have a hard time finding a sorrier one. 
Divorce her.


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## jparistotle (Jul 10, 2018)

johnnahak said:


> I feel like a fool being played like that. It's just I don't realize how naive I am yet. lol  I'm like a kid who believes in santa.
> I really want closure before, I want to see it for myself but I'm 100% sure I'll never get it from her mouth.
> Every time I told her in the past that I suspected something and asked her if she ever cheated on me, all I got was "Wow! You think I'm like that? I'm not cheating on you. Wow so that's what you think of me!"
> 
> ...


Send the screen shots to his wife and ask her do you think he is joking. Then tell your wife "I am filling for a divorce". "I am no longer wasting my time in this fake relationship"


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

johnnahak said:


> She didn't love me as much as before. She told me she wanted to move out without divorcing or separating and we should do 50/50 custody for the kids. She wants to move out BUT want us to stay a couple so we both could have a break of parenting. So living apart together with 50/50 custody for the kids. She said living in separate houses would help us.


This is a new twist on an old theme. Normally they ask for a separation to work on the marriage. The spouse that is asked for the separation assumes that there will be no sex with others.

The spouse that wants the separation commonly already has someone lined up to have sex with. If the new person is great then they go with it and get a divorce, if the new person isn’t so great they can go back to their spouse.

Basically it’s an arrangement that makes it easier to date. Their spouse even provides childcare. If their spouse finds out that they had sex with others they just say that we were separated and therefore you can’t complain.

That's why I say if you're going to get separated always make it extremely clear if dating others is allowed or not.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She’s definitely good on getting him to babysit and give her time to chase married men. What a skanchy woman.
Booting her shouldn’t be this hard for him.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> She’s been cheating since she started dressing better.
> She’s told you she doesn’t love you. Yes, she’s screwing married men, plainly.
> She says she’s single.
> 
> ...


She is presently sour, she is *not sorry*, not until this all gets exposed.
She is sour, on you and your' existence.

Then she will be sorry she got caught.

She will later attempt to spin it in her favor. 
The timeline and the details of her dressing better will sink this salty ocean-liner of thinking.

She did not want to divorce, just yet, because she wants to explore her options.
She is playing with men.

This married man caught her eye, but not her mouth.
Sounds like she is not quite invested in him and is using this POSOM for one-sided thrills.

..........................................................................

She should have just divorced, and then gone hunting for a new and single lover.
Humans are sadly, weak.


_Are Dee-_


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

This is a joke right? Concerned? No, you should kick her to the curb and find someone who appreciates you and isn’t sucking off some hiking group buddy.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Laurentium said:


> I think there's nothing to gain from that. You don't want to make her an enemy. She has a loaded gun and two hostages.


There is some truth in this.
The truth can be bared after the divorce.

Not telling POSOM's spouse, my, this will very hard to do.
Truth, as this, burns your hands.

Justice is always such a slippery outcome.
The tendency is for it to slip away, and it become piddling in comparison to the damage done.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

johnnahak said:


> Good morning. Thanks everyone for your replies, I'll take the time to read them again a second time.
> After a inexistant night of sleep, I woke up shaking. Looked at the screenshots. Still trying to figure out what is going on. They do mess a lot with each other. But can't get the idea that he ate her out of my head, if its true.
> 
> Thinking of a plan, I checked out his wife's FB profile. She posted something on her timeline this morning. She tagged him in the post. She announced her friends and family that she is pregnant and they were awaiting another child.
> ...


This is not a joke. I’m sorry how hard this is going to be for you for awhile, but you have to face reality... she is cheating on you. You know she is cheating on you you just don’t WANT to know. It’s a horrible feeling. 

I don’t think you need a confrontation, or to try to save this marriage at all, she is done with you, she just wants to keep you on the back burner until she can find a replacement for you. I’m so sorry. 

The fact that this guy has a newly pregnant wife and he is messing around... I feel so bad for that wife. But I think other posters are right, take the best deal you can get and divorce her now. I’m so sorry this is so painful, but you have to come to terms with the reality and confronting her will just get you gaslighting and lies, which it seems you are likely to believe honestly. 

You have the proof you need already to move forward with your life. Get the best deal while she is willing to give it to you. And then tell his poor wife when it’s done. Just my opinion.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

johnnahak said:


> *She also need to win me back*. She said no, I need to win her back, not the opposite.


File for divorce. Her reaction will tell you all you need to know. If she wants to stay married, then she will fight to win you back, if she doesn't then she's already so far out of the marriage and focused on her single life that divorce is a relief and even the finances won't be enough of a deterrent.

That exchange is telling in another way. She wants those "being desired, being chased" feelings and it doesn't matter who gives them to her, could be you, could be the other guy, could be random Tinder guys. She doesn't care how they feel though. It's quite odd that "the guy" went down on her first and she didn't reciprocate. More odd is that the ice was broken with them by him going down, when logistically speaking, it's a much easier task for a BJ to happen and to happen first. Easier access, less time to completion, less room needed if in a car, and the guy is usually the pushier person trying to escalate. That she put him off and turned the tables and focused on her own pleasure and not his says something about her and her motivations. She doesn't give a damn about how you feel in this marriage, you are there to serve her needs.


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## Buffer (Dec 17, 2019)

I have to agree with:


jparistotle said:


> Send the screen shots to his wife and ask her do you think he is joking. Then tell your wife "I am filling for a divorce". "I am no longer wasting my time in this fake relationship"


To keep the relationship you have to be prepared to loos it. She is gone, out having sex with this married man, who wife is expecting another child.
You don't need her permission to do this. Notify the other BS. If she found out then she would notify you.
She is looking at waiting for him to leave his wife, then 'woops' look I found my true love. So sorry husband, but you didn't win me back.
Expose both cheaters to all. Tell the children mum has another BF. Leave it at that.
Protect them, seek legal advice, get tested for STDs and STIs. Exercise, eat healthy drink water, steer clear from booze and recreational drugs. They won't help. Disengage from her and hard 180 for your sake, from her as she is already gone.
Typical cake eater.
One day at a time
Buffer.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Get a fair divorce whole she us aching for it and move on. Or you can sit around in a pity party (I did it, I know it hurts) and wait for her to get her ducks in a row and screw your over financially as well. I divorced quick and saved myself a lot more pain. Trying to help you save yourself too. I know your overwhelmed with grief. Get a lawyer and let him help you trad water. You might even let your dr know and get in some anti anxiety meds to help for a while.
We all know how excruciating and nonstop this pain is. But you WILL get over it. Prepare fir it to take a long time. Months until you feel human again. But it will happen. You are putting yourself in further trouble if you don’t get a divorce deal now. Right now. And there is zero to save in this relationship. Your wife is awful, and once a woman falls out of love, there’s no chance she will ever love you again.

But guess what? In a couple of years you will actually feel that she’s given you a gift—- of getting rid of her. But it will take a while to see it.

you’re hurting and feel like a coyote in a steel trap. Gnaw you’re foot off of you have to and ESCAPE.


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## cocolo2019 (Aug 21, 2019)

Greetings OP. First thing, English is my 2nd language, so bear with me.
2nd thing: yes she is cheating. Now, I think she is having an exit affair and she is testing the waters. Why? Because she has not given him yet oral sex. I think her restriction to give him oral sex is because she doesn't want him to see her as a total [email protected]#% and see him as a future partner. You know, in affairs people behave very raunchy: porn sex and total debauchery (see the posts of Oldshirt: Lessons learned being OM #2). But in this case she is being very careful and the action of her investigating OM's wife validates what I am saying. 

Now, the Tinder App means she is looking for the cake in other areas. OM1 is the exit affair and the Tinder App is for cake eating affair (debauchery behavior). Either way, and my apologies here OP, she is not marriage material. 

What I recommend? 
1st: do not confront. You know she is already cheating. 
2nd: read the newbie area here. 
3rd: Arrange an appointment with a lawyer (you don't have to file know, it is to see where you stand in case you pull the trigger).
4th: Go stealth mode, put a poker face and recopilate evidence.
5th: Do the 180
6th: File and send the information to OM's wife (without informing your wife about this or your filing).
It is possible when you do this she will snap out from the fog, but I do not recommend you keep her as your wife.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK so stop faffing about and tell us what is your plan so that we can help. Here is a starter that you can work with:


Archive proof so that you can produce it when you need to.
Up your surveillance to add to the proof (not necessary but for your peace of mind - you seem to be having problems believing this). Find out where he lives - if you have his full name should be easy to do this. If you don't have his full name, work on getting it by snooping (as I said up your snooping).
Consult attorney and get protected (financially and in terms of custody - at the very least know what to expect and your rights). File for divorce.
Then inform his wife (pregnant or not pregnant, she needs to know so that she can protect herself and her unborn baby down the line). She may also become an ally and help you get the full picture by maybe doing her own surveillance before she confronts (you could suggest this to her).
Expose the affair to all and sundry - your family, her family, close friends etc. Maybe even to her employers but be careful with this, you may not want to get her fired before divorcing.
Confront her and have her served. Do not leave the home - if she wants she can leave, in fact encourage her to leave.
Expect her to deny, blame you, rewrite marital history and gaslight. Don't fall for any of this.
Do the 180 and exercise and keep well dressed and well groomed.

Quite a list and its going to take total conviction from you to get through this but it really is for your own well being and good. You are not imagining this and none of it is your fault. If you want to heal properly and sooner, you need to execute this list quickly and efficiently. She is now the enemy so expect her to act like one even if she appears friendly.

Good luck!


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## jin (Sep 9, 2014)

Exposing then filing may cause issues during the divorce like her wanting to get back at you. 
Exposure is a way to try and shock the WS into reality and break the affair. But I find on here is usually just a means of revenge which you may regret. 
Based on what you are saying reconciliation seems unlikely and if so would you even want to try and reconcile? If not then skip the exposure and divorce amicably.

The only person who you may want to inform is the OMs poor wife. Otherwise let the chips fall where they may.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Married folks don't 'joke' like that. Tell the OM's wife. Exposure kills affairs. Blow up their affair before Friday. Do not confront the OM - notify his wife instead.

1 - She's being abused and deserves to know it.
2 - The OM will dump her immediately (he has a lot to lose). Clears the road if that's what you want.
3 - Your wife isn't going to limit your contact with the kids - because she needs a baby sitter.
4 - Read up on the 180...stop being your wife's buddy and confidant or letting her use you. If her car breaks, it's her problem.
5 - Inform her that she can date anyone one she wants - after the divorce (legal separation).


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## johnnahak (Nov 26, 2020)

Thanks everyone. 180 is coming, been contemplating this for a while.

She often asks me to fabricate lies when she's trying to evade some situations. 

I had a REAL hard time hiding my feelings. I want to go stealth mode but I can't. She found out something is going on and asked me multiple times what was wrong and why I'm in a bad mood. 

I took evidence, screenshots of everything.

I confronted her. 

I told her "So, are you gonna suck that POS-OM tomorrow? I saw everything. The pictures of himself in the bath. Him asking you to join him. You saying you can't because you're at work.
"We were just kidding, just playing around. Nothing ever happened and nothing will happen."

So why you said you can't join him / suck him because you're at work? 
"We are just joking!"

When did he ate you? 
"He never ate me! We are just joking with each other."

He wants to **** you? "Maybe, that's his problem, won't happen"

You mess with him that way?

You think i'm a doormat? You have no respect for me! This guy is an asshole for doing this to his wife. I think I'm going to send the pictures to her!

"You have pictures? why? No don't do it. Delete them!"

I won't. 
She said I'll leave just cancel the mortage sell the house I don't care this is over. 

And she ended up saying I don't have time for this and went to complete her amazon order

I feel like a ****ing doormat.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Please try not to let emotions bring you to ruin. The only person you should speak to again is your lawyer. I know it’s hard. Of course she lied and said they were joking. I’m 47 yrs old and never in 47 years have I joked with any woman like that, and would expect a the beat down I’d give if a married woman’s husband found out I was “joking” in tgat manner with his wife. She’s a liar. She has no feelings for you whatsoever, other than concern over how you can be useful to making her life easier.

if you were wise, you’d be friendly with her and use her guilty conscience to get a fair divorce. Because brother, that guilty conscience will NOT last long.
Consequences will destroy guilt and you’ll be screwed.


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## cocolo2019 (Aug 21, 2019)

johnnahak said:


> Thanks everyone. 180 is coming, been contemplating this for a while.
> 
> She often asks me to fabricate lies when she's trying to evade some situations.
> 
> ...


Big mistake OP. You shouldn't have confronted her. Anyways, follow the advice here for damage control. You need to inform OM's wife yesterday. Your wife is going to inform OM now. Inform OM's wife before is too late.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> ut -- see a lawyer, get YOU





Harken Banks said:


> I'm not sure saving the marriage should be the first objective. I don't think he should go about things that way, in any event. OP needs to do what is right for him.


If you read my post you would see I said the same thing (I didn't think it was worth saving) but that is his choice


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

johnnahak said:


> Thanks everyone. 180 is coming, been contemplating this for a while.
> 
> She often asks me to fabricate lies when she's trying to evade some situations.
> 
> ...


You are showing your hand! Please control yourself and start doing a hard 180 NOW! You are not listening to us at all.
She is calling your bluff and you have walked right into it.
Now listen to every. do not engage with her anymore. You have lost her, the quicker you start to deal with it the better outcome for you.
Go and see the lawyer now, get SDT tested (throw in on the dining room table)
Engage a PI for a week or two (gather the evidence)
Then share with all
Tell the OBS asap, it is only fair that she knows. No married man should be talking to another married woman like this, period. Why can't you see that?
Go scorched earth now, no more moping, messing, threatening. Action is needed. Do not tell her what you are planning to do, follow the lawyer's advice.


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## johnnahak (Nov 26, 2020)

Thank you. I sent everything to the guy's wife. She haven't seen it yet.

I just took the time to read the 180 posted earlier.

Wow, everything I've been doing is the opposite of what's in the list. I need to make the turn quick.

I realized I lost 3 hours of my time sitting on the couch, staring at the wall, while she was busy on her laptop.

I stood up, went in my office and read about the 180.

It begins now


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

johnnahak said:


> Thanks everyone. 180 is coming, been contemplating this for a while.
> 
> She often asks me to fabricate lies when she's trying to evade some situations.
> 
> ...


Wow what a super funny joke! Your wife is a total piece of trash.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

johnnahak said:


> Thank you. I sent everything to the guy's wife. She haven't seen it yet.
> 
> I just took the time to read the 180 posted earlier.
> 
> ...


Well, I’ll be scouring the board for a pregnant BW now. Maybe if she contacts you, you can send her here as well because she’s going to need all the help and advice she can get. 

I really hope things turn out ok, your wife seems like a beotch and that could really bite you in the ass now... I’m sorry you are here, but don’t believe any of her bull crap from here on out. And you should take the advice to see your doctor (while you’re getting STI testing) if you need some medication for sleep and anxiety, you need to keep your health as much as possible. Stay strong.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

As others have told you she has called your bluff. You should have told the OBS before you confronted your WW. Now she and the POSOM will go into defence mode - the POSOM will forewarn his wife that you are some crazy jealous husband who has fabricated evidence etc and to ignore you. I gave you a list and the action points were ordered - i.e. to be carried out in that order. Go see an attorney now!


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## dreamer2017 (Nov 7, 2017)

Dear Johnnahak,

Since you have your confronted wife with proof, she will go on the offensive. Be prepared to hear multiple lies to defend herself. Your wife is now showing an outward calmness, but believe me, she is a wreck inside thinking about how she can control the damage. I would gather that she has contacted her AP and informed him of the evidence you have in your possession (both of afraid of the information). The AP will never leave his wife for yours. It is my opinion is that the AP was only looking for a piece of meat that your wife has been giving and continue to supply. He will choose his wife over yours every single time. My recommendation is as follows.

Contact the OBS and inform her in regards to the affair. Supply her with the evidence.

Talk with an attorney to help you navigate through this difficult situation, i.e..

a.) Stopping the mortgage

b.) Separating finances

c.) On Divorce.

Under no circumstances do you present yourself as a weak man seeking only reconciliation. Consider what other posters are recommending to you by engaging in the 180. This is the time you must focus only on the children and yourself. Please don’t consider staying for the sake of the children. I believe many people try to stay in the marriage for the wrong reason.

Best,
Dreamer


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

johnnahak said:


> Thank you. I sent everything to the guy's wife. She haven't seen it yet.
> 
> I just took the time to read the 180 posted earlier.
> 
> ...


Im sure she was IM'ing him to let him know you knew so they can start getting their stories straight.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The guy's wife has a right to know her health and the health of her unborn child have been compromised. Who knows who else your wife has been playing footsie with or who the jerk husband has been playing with.

You did good informing her. 180 and attorney pronto!


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

All good posts and good advice. I wrote what is below when I saw your post that you had confronted, but I was busy with Thanksgiving at the time and did not send. Subsequent comments are very good and have covered much of this.



Chill. Won't be easy, but try your best to chill. Yes, she is going to tell you nothing happened, it was all just flirty chat, and so on. It was a tactical error to tell her what you knew and how. She will respond specifically to that and will explain it away while ridiculing you for being paranoid, controlling, insecure, and delusional. She will tell you you are smothering her and your neediness is driving her away. She will also attack you. Expect a strong counter-attack. That is a natural and effective defense. It can all be very disorienting. It is designed to make you doubt yourself, doubt your sanity, doubt your reasonableness. Just chill if you can. Try not to be reactive or to engage. No point confronting her or pressing her for truth or explanation. Absolutely nothing to be gained from that and much to be lost. Trust me, your mental health is at stake. So chill. Talk to a lawyer. Talk to an individual counselor if you have a good one. Talk to good and trusted friends. Talk to people who will keep your feet on the ground. From the lawyer find out exactly what to expect in divorce and how best to prepare for that. Knowing that and having a plan will disarm some of her threats. Don't make pronouncements about what you will do for effect, as a threat, or otherwise. Just in an orderly manner go about preparing for and executing divorce. That's my advice.



A couple of additional points to bear in mind: One, she has already told AP about your confronting her and the two of them together are talking about you and how to address the problem of you. That includes preemptive damage control work on AP's wife and coaching and strategizing on you. If you contact AP's wife, expect that she will already have been warned that you are unstable. Two, I think there is a small chance that eating out is the extent of what has already happened. I think you can safely assume your wife has been having rowdy sex with at least this guy. Three, I tend not to think she viewed this as an "exit affair" or that she held hopes that AP would leave his wife or was planning to leave you for him. This was something she did because she could and she wanted to. Finally, let go of the idea of saving the marriage. Banish the thought. Steel yourself and calmly and deliberately go forward with your plan to prepare for and execute divorce. Whatever happens, happens. Do what is best for you and your children. At this point, your wife is not your partner and she is not your friend. She is your most dangerous enemy. That’s probably going to strike you as a weird way of seeing things. She is and has been for some time plotting against you. She and AP have been and are partners in plotting against you. Not because they singled you out as a mark or because their objective was to cause you harm or undoing, but simply for their own selfish reasons where your interests and welfare were unimportant next to their cold and immature selfishness. You are collateral damage. 



So chill.



This may go against and require you to stifle some of your instincts and understandable desire to try to get back to some supposed state of happiness before all of this mess. But that place does not exist and if it ever really did it does not exist now, has not for some time, and is not available to you. You cannot simply go back, appealing as that may sound. Some of the people offering advice have been through what you are going through. Others have watched it play out again and again, always in pretty much the same way. It is remarkable how predictable it all is. I sense that you are feeling confusion and uncertainty. Probably shock and disbelief. Those things can cause you to act against your interest. So chill.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

johnnahak said:


> Thanks everyone. 180 is coming, been contemplating this for a while.
> 
> She often asks me to fabricate lies when she's trying to evade some situations.
> 
> ...


I cant believe she thinks you would agree that sort of talk between them and the photos sent are in anyway ok or 'joking around', what nonsense..


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The evil exposed is often dwarfed by the evil kept under wraps; it being held in reserve.

When faced with the truth this wife kept sniping back, kept typing her disorder out for you to see.

A calculating and cold-hearted creature, this one.

You may note, it takes extreme actions and behavior to stimulate her.

Ice is like that. 
Steaming vice, is her go-to pleasure.


_The Typist-_


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## Nailhead (Sep 21, 2020)

johnnahak said:


> Good morning. Thanks everyone for your replies, I'll take the time to read them again a second time.
> After a inexistant night of sleep, I woke up shaking. Looked at the screenshots. Still trying to figure out what is going on. They do mess a lot with each other. But can't get the idea that he ate her out of my head, if its true.
> 
> Thinking of a plan, I checked out his wife's FB profile. She posted something on her timeline this morning. She tagged him in the post. She announced her friends and family that she is pregnant and they were awaiting another child.
> ...


Sir, your W is having sex with OM. File D today.


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## jparistotle (Jul 10, 2018)

johnnahak said:


> Thank you. I sent everything to the guy's wife. She haven't seen it yet.
> 
> I just took the time to read the 180 posted earlier.
> 
> ...


Good for you. You take You back. Seems to me if you already told her you would send to the wife is indicative of how little respect she had for you. She ignored your threat and has very little respect for you and the relationship. Now let the real games begin. Stay strong with the 180 the worst is yet to come.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

johnnahak said:


> Thank you. I sent everything to the guy's wife. She haven't seen it yet.
> 
> I just took the time to read the 180 posted earlier.
> 
> ...


Her response and ability to "finish her Amazon order" and being busy while you stair at the wall says a tremendous amount. A lot was communicated to you and she didn't have to open her mouth. It tells me she's confident she can gas light you, keep you off balance and disrespect you.

Her response is not close to a wife who loves and cares. BTW.......her gaslighting efforts were embarrassingly ineffective. I know she had no room or time to respond with a good lie but it says a lot that she even tried to get you to believe her words.

I highly recommend you adopt a strategic approach many here can help you with. If you're fearful you will fail.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Yeah I'm sure her 3 hours on the computer were talking to her AP and NOT ordering from amazon.
She is trying to do damage control and will continue to gaslight you on this.
You know what to do.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

The ONLY reason for her to move out was so she could **** other men.

She changed her status to single because she is. Your marriage ended as soon as she started ****ing other men.

It is obvious your wife’s hiking friend went down on her. He is pissed that she didn’t give him a BJ. I guess she had a condition with him that he had to leave his wife like your ex wife left you. She hasn’t completely broken off from you because the OM has failed to leave his wife. You’re only plan B.

Yes you need to pull your head out of the sand. By what you have said your marriage has been over for years. Your ex wife is moving on now.

You need to get a lawyer. Tell them the entire situation and follow their advice on divorcing your ex wife.

Make sure you find the best one. Also do a visit with the top 5 in your area and pick the #1.

Don’t say a word to your ex wife about anything until you file.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

johnnahak said:


> Good morning. Thanks everyone for your replies, I'll take the time to read them again a second time.
> After a inexistant night of sleep, I woke up shaking. Looked at the screenshots. Still trying to figure out what is going on. They do mess a lot with each other. But can't get the idea that he ate her out of my head, if its true.
> 
> Thinking of a plan, I checked out his wife's FB profile. She posted something on her timeline this morning. She tagged him in the post. She announced her friends and family that she is pregnant and they were awaiting another child.
> ...


Do you really think that is a joke????

One of the most messed up jokes I have ever heard if it is. Just send his wife the screenshots and let her make her own decision on this. It might not be the first time he has done this.

She has the right to know who her husband is.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Seeing the top 5 is superb advice. Your wife can’t use them if you’ve seen them for a free consult. Excellent!

your wife is a zombie btw


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think you two should cooperate to split things, set up 50/50 custody, which his the norm these days, and do it as cheaply as possible since sounds like you're kind of broke, and not fight about it and one of you get nasty and greedy. If you're splitting kids jointly, neither of you gives the other money, and just split possessions. 

You need to not be in the house together for the kids' sake. They pick up on everything.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

colingrant said:


> Her response and ability to "finish her Amazon order" and being busy while you stair at the wall says a tremendous amount. A lot was communicated to you and she didn't have to open her mouth. It tells me she's confident she can gas light you, keep you off balance and disrespect you.
> 
> Her response is not close to a wife who loves and cares. BTW.......her gaslighting efforts were embarrassingly ineffective. I know she had no room or time to respond with a good lie but it says a lot that she even tried to get you to believe her words.
> 
> I highly recommend you adopt a strategic approach many here can help you with. If you're fearful you will fail.


Believe it or not, the gaslighting can be more damaging than the actual acts, which are bad enough alone. It is the gaslighting that is a real danger to your health and well being.


Evinrude58 said:


> Seeing the top 5 is superb advice. Your wife can’t use them if you’ve seen them for a free consult. Excellent!
> 
> your wife is a zombie btw


I recall seeing somewhere that the divorce bar takes a dim view of this tactic (and that is part of why they will charge a consultation fee -so spoiling the pool may be an expensive undertaking). In any event, the divorce lawyers I have talked to say it is generally good to have someone competent and knowledgeable on the other side so that the process is orderly and efficient.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I see your point. The ones I’ve seen in action love to stall and drag stuff out in order to wrong every penny from both spouses.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Brother you need to wake up and smell the damn coffee. I’ve been in your shoes and trust me it sucks. I did one thing different from you I listen to the advice I got on here and went total Parris Island On my FWW. The first thing I did was exposed to family and friends and **** I just decided what the **** I went totally nuclear on her ass and exposed on Facebook stating that my wife had a boyfriend and put his name out there too along with hers. Boy howdy did that stir the **** up. My wife’s head was spinning like a tornado by the time I got done the day after D-Day.

You need to put on your big boy britches and tell her to get the **** out of the house Pronto pack her **** up put it in her car and tell her you don’t care where she stays but she’s not staying here. That’s called being firm being tough. Do not be a Vacillating weenie. Be firm be strong be tough. Women do not respect weakness. They are not wired that way they're wired to respect strength. You need to project strength by your actions.

As I have encouraged others on here you should really consider reading the book grow a Pair
And no more Mr. nice guy. You can’t be nice and diplomatic in situations like this. You have to be a total asshole. Trust me I did it and I am now in my fifth year of R this Christmas Eve
Yes in my formerly wayward wife did ask for a separationA.k.a. apply for more space to **** the other guy. She’s playing you like a violin brother
It’s time for you to turn the tables and blow this **** up ruin her little fantasy world now.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

johnnahak said:


> Looked at the screenshots. *Still trying to figure out what is going on*. They do mess a lot with each other. But can't get the idea that he ate her out of my head, if its true.
> 
> *And IF my wife was faithful* and they were just messing around jokingly (maybe its an inside joke or something?), I'll feel like an ass.





johnnahak said:


> I really want closure before, *I want to see it for myself but I'm 100%* sure I'll never get it from her mouth.


You're kidding right? Mate. You HAVE seen it for yourself 100%. You read the screenshots. SHE'S CHEATING. She's gross. Get a divorce.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Some people on here never see the light.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> er little fantasy world now.





No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Brother you need to wake up and smell the damn coffee. I’ve been in your shoes and trust me it sucks. I did one thing different from you I listen to the advice I got on here and went total Parris Island On my FWW. The first thing I did was exposed to family and friends and *** I just decided what the *** I went totally nuclear on her ass and exposed on Facebook stating that my wife had a boyfriend and put his name out there too along with hers. Boy howdy did that stir the **** up. My wife’s head was spinning like a tornado by the time I got done the day after D-Day.
> 
> You need to put on your big boy britches and tell her to get the *** out of the house Pronto pack her *** up put it in her car and tell her you don’t care where she stays but she’s not staying here. That’s called being firm being tough. Do not be a Vacillating weenie. Be firm be strong be tough. Women do not respect weakness. They are not wired that way they're wired to respect strength. You need to project strength by your actions.
> 
> ...


I cannot like this enough times....................THIS!👆👆👆👆👆👆👆 OP follow this advice!


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

OK, you exposed prematurely. Don't beat yourself up. But here's the time-honored advice for getting the information BEFORE you confront:

Weightlifter's Standard Evidence post

Read the above link. Repeatedly. Learn it.


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## johnnahak (Nov 26, 2020)

I told her that she hurt my feelings and that she disappointed me. Told her that the trust is gone and even if she maintains her story that they were only messing around and they never had a PA, I still consider talking about blowjobs and eating her cheating.

She said sorry once. Yesteday, I asked her to prove me that it never happened. I asked to see her phone. After almost 10 minutes of arguing, she unlocked it and gave it to me, saying that she doesn't have anything to hide. I said I don't want you to unlock it. I want your code. If you wanted to respect me, you need to be completely transparent with me. I will not be snooping in your phone, I just need assurance. Complete transparency.
She didn't give me her password. She confirmed that the guy was sending her snapchat messages (I'm too old for this ****) but assured me that it was just stupid pics and videos with filters. Guess she doesn't want me to see that by not giving me her password.

I told her that even if she didn't act on it, this is completely unnaceptable and that I decided to end the relationship because the trust is gone. Her behavior is totally unnaceptable. 

She went to work. Came back. She talked to me like we never had this conversation.

I asked her if she wanted to buy her own place or rent something. She asked You were serious? You really want me to leave? I said yes. You broke the trust. I will never forget. I'm too resentful for this ****. You hurt me.

Now she looks sad and she's stonewalling me. She went to bed early on the couch in the living room.

I spend a great day with my kids while she was at work. I feel much better. I love my kids and my family. Thank you everyone for your support. I loved this woman so much. I will never forget the good memories we once had. I will miss her. But I need to start a new chapter. I need to be the one who write my own story. I need to find my own happiness. My own peace of mind.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

aine said:


> I cannot like this enough times....................THIS!👆👆👆👆👆👆👆 OP follow this advice!


Seriously, though, what is the objective, to get her back, or to get rid of her?

I don't see why you'd want to take her back, and if you don't want her back, what's the benefit of going full "Parris Island"? (I'm asking Aine or NLLH, not the original poster)


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Your wife isn't going to take you seriously unless she believes (really believes) that you are going to divorce her unless she can prove the texting was innocent. I suggest you consult with an attorney and separate your bank accounts (it sends a message that you're serious).

1 - Inform your wife that people with nothing to hide - hide nothing and are transparent.

2 - Inform her that every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Your wife's behavior is a big fail (i.e., destroyed your trust). Now you can't even believe her explanations and promise to stop. 

Further, based on their chat history it's reasonable for you to assume she's having or thinking about having an affair. As a result of her decision to engage in inappropriate behavior she has created a situation where she looks guilty. 

Therefore, it's 100% her responsibility to prove otherwise.

3 - It's no longer up to you to prove anything. Rather it's up to her to take the initiative and retrieve texts and pictures. If she can't (because she deleted texts or used a cheater's app that auto deletes), then will assume she's guilty and file for divorce. 

In the interim you should protect yourself from infidelity by taking steps to exit the relationship.

4 - Finally, even if she can prove to your satisfaction that it was innocent, she still has to provide you with a satisfactory plan to rebuild your trust and prove she's a safe life partner going forward.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

johnnahak said:


> I told her that she hurt my feelings and that she disappointed me. Told her that the trust is gone and even if she maintains her story that they were only messing around and they never had a PA, I still consider talking about blowjobs and eating her cheating.
> 
> She said sorry once. Yesteday, I asked her to prove me that it never happened. I asked to see her phone. After almost 10 minutes of arguing, she unlocked it and gave it to me, saying that she doesn't have anything to hide. I said I don't want you to unlock it. I want your code. If you wanted to respect me, you need to be completely transparent with me. I will not be snooping in your phone, I just need assurance. Complete transparency.
> She didn't give me her password. She confirmed that the guy was sending her snapchat messages (I'm too old for this ****) but assured me that it was just stupid pics and videos with filters. Guess she doesn't want me to see that by not giving me her password.
> ...


 Brother,

once again you display weakness. if I may ask, what is your objective? Stay together at all costs,blow her fantasy world up, reconcile? Any of these options have one common thread.....MAN UP!

i would simply grab her damn phone, find a hacker, snoop the whole damn trail of electronic data. 

You need to be solid, unyielding, and provide her no wiggle room. Yet, you’re paralyzed by fear. FEAR NOT!
FEAR will keep you from taking the course of action required to be victorious in this situation. The decision to get out of infidelity rests with you having the resolve to find your balls, and take action.

Be bold!


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Laurentium said:


> Seriously, though, what is the objective, to get her back, or to get rid of her?
> 
> I don't see why you'd want to take her back, and if you don't want her back, what's the benefit of going full "Parris Island"? (I'm asking Aine or NLLH, not the original poster)


The “Parris Island“ mindset I am referring to is one is being strong, facing your situation, Taking the necessary actions required to get out of infidelity. At Parris Island, I learned two crucial things: 1) You are stronger than you realized 2) there are no unwinnable situations.

My anology as a Marine is to charge forward..take action. Do not be paralyzed by fear.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

johnnahak said:


> I told her that she hurt my feelings and that she disappointed me. Told her that the trust is gone and even if she maintains her story that they were only messing around and they never had a PA, I still consider talking about blowjobs and eating her cheating.
> 
> She said sorry once. Yesteday, I asked her to prove me that it never happened. I asked to see her phone. After almost 10 minutes of arguing, she unlocked it and gave it to me, saying that she doesn't have anything to hide. I said I don't want you to unlock it. I want your code. If you wanted to respect me, you need to be completely transparent with me. I will not be snooping in your phone, I just need assurance. Complete transparency.
> She didn't give me her password. She confirmed that the guy was sending her snapchat messages (I'm too old for this ****) but assured me that it was just stupid pics and videos with filters. Guess she doesn't want me to see that by not giving me her password.
> ...


You are now in the land of gaslighting. Steel your resolve. Be done with this.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Cheaters will counter your suspicions with the false argument that they should be safe from divorce as long as you can't prove infidelity in court to a jury. 

Consequently, they use apps that auto delete and/or meet in private places ... thinking to themselves that as long as you don't actually see them having sex (or admitting to it by text), that they have a free pass to act inappropriately.

However, in reality you are the Judge. 

The test or evidentiary standard is 100% up to you. You get to decide what you want from your life partner (and what you are willing to tolerate).


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

johnnahak said:


> I told her that she hurt my feelings and that she disappointed me. Told her that the trust is gone and even if she maintains her story that they were only messing around and they never had a PA, I still consider talking about blowjobs and eating her cheating.
> 
> She said sorry once. Yesteday, I asked her to prove me that it never happened. I asked to see her phone. After almost 10 minutes of arguing, she unlocked it and gave it to me, saying that she doesn't have anything to hide. I said I don't want you to unlock it. I want your code. If you wanted to respect me, you need to be completely transparent with me. I will not be snooping in your phone, I just need assurance. Complete transparency.
> She didn't give me her password. She confirmed that the guy was sending her snapchat messages (I'm too old for this ****) but assured me that it was just stupid pics and videos with filters. Guess she doesn't want me to see that by not giving me her password.
> ...


Of course she will not give you the password. She does not want you to see the dik and kitty pix and videos of each other they have been sending to each other.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Laurentium said:


> Seriously, though, what is the objective, to get her back, or to get rid of her?
> 
> I don't see why you'd want to take her back, and if you don't want her back, what's the benefit of going full "Parris Island"? (I'm asking Aine or NLLH, not the original poster)


It is his choice, some people reconcile, heck we have a whole thread dedicated to this subject. The OP doesn't know whether he is coming or going, he needs to be more decisive and pull up his big boy panties and go scorched earth on her ass. It is not for us to say what the outcome should be. At the moment he is too weak, she does not respect him at all. If he showed some strenght and kicked her out, she may cave, may decide she will do everything to save the marriage. OP has done very little to show strenght.


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## johnnahak (Nov 26, 2020)

I don't really understand why people here think that I want to reconciliate.

No, I don't want to reconciliate.

At all. I just want this whole mess to be over. I don't want to live in doubt. I don't need to be stressed by childish crap like this. Never again. I want to be free.

I talked to OM's wife today. She is PISSED. To her, this is no "friendly banter". 

I got into a fight with my STBXW today. She ordered me to delete the screenshots. "Sorry, they're in the cloud, I sent them to your "friend" wife and my lawyer."

It's on.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

👍


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

johnnahak said:


> I don't really understand why people here think that I want to reconciliate.
> 
> No, I don't want to reconciliate.
> 
> ...


And now, in the last remaining days of your marriage, the power drastically shifts to your favor. Your wife is irate, you're calm(er), she makes her demand for you to delete the screenshots, you reject her demand, she fumes and accepts your decision.

Even more, you're going to blow up her other relationship, it's likely that the OMW is going to demand that he cut contact with your wife. You did this to her. She's powerless to stop the OMW. Now you and he have cut her loose. More time for her to o Amazon shopping, I suppose.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

johnnahak said:


> I don't really understand why people here think that I want to reconciliate.
> 
> No, I don't want to reconciliate.
> 
> ...


And guess what.....you now control the situation! Now stay aloof, speak to her only about the kids....all else via legal counsel. well done.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

johnnahak said:


> I told her that she hurt my feelings and that she disappointed me. Told her that the trust is gone and even if she maintains her story that they were only messing around and they never had a PA, I still consider talking about blowjobs and eating her cheating.
> 
> She said sorry once. Yesteday, I asked her to prove me that it never happened. I asked to see her phone. After almost 10 minutes of arguing, she unlocked it and gave it to me, saying that she doesn't have anything to hide. I said I don't want you to unlock it. I want your code. If you wanted to respect me, you need to be completely transparent with me. I will not be snooping in your phone, I just need assurance. Complete transparency.
> She didn't give me her password. She confirmed that the guy was sending her snapchat messages (I'm too old for this ****) but assured me that it was just stupid pics and videos with filters. Guess she doesn't want me to see that by not giving me her password.
> ...


*After almost 10 minutes of arguing - *No more arguing. Just poker face with as few words as needed. If possible, answer questions with head nods, yes or no. You lose cred and respect with arguing as it conveys desperation.

*I will not be snooping in your phone* - You make the rules now. If you want to snoop, snoop. If you don't want to because you're divorcing, that's okay too. No demands. Just act.

*She didn't give me her password*.- No password. No marriage. Don't tell her, just ghost and divorce.

*I told her that even if she didn't act on it, this is completely unnaceptable and that I decided to end the relationship because the trust is gone *- This is fine but if you go back you're toast as you've expressed what will happen and now you have to do it or respect you covet will not happen.

*You really want me to leave?* - She realized you mean business now. Good job and continue

*I will miss her. But I need to start a new chapter. I need to be the one who write my own story. I need to find my own happiness. My own peace of mind.* - Awesome. Simply awesome. Super nice job.

You passed the first major test which is a step that leads you to the next one. Think of it as undergrad and graduate school. The next one which is tactics, strategies and ploys she'll deploy to test your resolve. It will require the same confidence, strength and belief in yourself to pass.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

johnnahak said:


> I don't really understand why people here think that I want to reconciliate.
> 
> No, I don't want to reconciliate.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm.. Nice.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

johnnahak said:


> I got into a fight with my STBXW today. She ordered me to delete the screenshots. "Sorry, they're in the cloud, I sent them to your "friend" wife and my lawyer."
> 
> It's on.


This is amazing!! I guess she didn’t find the conversation to be a silly joke after all? Really sucks when you get called on your own gaslighting.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@johnnahak Lawyer up and let slip the dogs of war.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Yep... all cheaters thrive in the dark and are terrified of public exposure. Keep your evidence as a bargaining chip for her to peacefully divorce.

1 - Be civil but protect yourself by treating your wife like someone you don't trust on any subject.

2 - Talk to an attorney about filing as soon as possible to protect yourself from being liable for her 'new' debts.

3 - Separate your bank accounts (half the savings are yours) and change your life insurance beneficiary.

4 - Your wife is desperate to avoid the consequences of her behavior (divorce) which will escalate to blind anger towards you as you proceeds with divorce. Carry a voice activated recorder to protect yourself from false domestic violence charges.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Look up the song "Never be like you" by Flume. There is a video too. It's very satisfying to the betrayed men out there. When it came out a few years ago, I was like, YES! Lyrics sung by the Wayward Female to her betrayed male.

“Stop looking at me with those eyes like I could disappear and you wouldn’t care why” 
"I'm falling on my knees, forgive me I'm a ****ing fool"
"Please just look me in my face, tell me everything's okay" (from the WW)

These three lines especially resonated with that time in my life.


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## BHB4408 (Oct 9, 2017)

Just read this from the beginning. The advice you've been given is essential. I've been down this road. Desperately thinking of ways to save my marriage. Blaming myself for "making the affair possible". I even gave her the promise of forgiveness when this is sorted out. Stupid, weak actions. No-one in my family has ever been divorced, so I had a lot of pressure in my mind not to do it. After 25 years of Christian marriage, I never even considered she's break the vows. But in an eight month period of time, she became someone I didn't even know.

I tortured myself for a few days on how I could save the relationship. I finally realized I needed to man up. I filed for divorce and got it accomplished without even hearing what she had to say. It hit her in the face hard. I had already secured an excellent attorney and had all the details and possible situations worked out (this is important).

Jumping ahead in my story: 4 years from the day I knew what was going on, 3 years from my divorce, and I am happier now than I've ever been. 

Just a few words of advice as you start doing what needs to be done, from my own experience:

* Even if she falls at your feet, crying and apologizing, you will NEVER be able to trust her again. Never. Don't allow yourself to think differently. 

* The 180 is the right thing to do if you are trying to reconcile. But you're not...you can't. Slam everything against the wall hard. Let the crumbling pieces fall to the floor, and hide the broom and dustpan.

* Do NOT put together how to divide assets yourself. I did, but when my attorney saw what I was thinking, he slapped me upside the head. Don't think about a 50/50 split. She doesn't deserve that, and a good attorney might help you get a 70/30 split. Mine did.

* Put bothersome things out of your mind. Appreciate the good times you had in the past, and look forward to the day you will find happiness, and be away from the Limbo you're in right now. Limbo is a killer. When my divorce was finalized, it was a huge weight off my shoulders. It will take 6 months to be able to look back and ask yourself why you even thought about reconciling with her. Month seven will start a good life for you.

* Do NOT ever leave the house. In fact, set yourself up in your Master Bedroom at night. She needs to sleep elsewhere. You may not be able to kick her out of the house, but definitely kick her out of any enjoyment there.

* Remain civil with her around the kids, but don't pretend nothing ever happened. Kids can feel when something isn't right, and a coverup will only confuse them more. 

* Keep track and document everything that's going on. Pass it all along to your attorney. The right attorney is expensive, but will save you thousands in the long run. Don't settle for low cost right now.

* You'll feel guilty demanding your share of the assets that are important to you. That special kid's photo album, the family grandfather clock, your garage tools, your boat and motorcycle, the fine China, etc...Demand it all, and let the chips fall where they fall. I gave in on a few things, and I regret it to this day. Let her keep the marriage photo album and video. She deserves that. 

* Realize that the men in her future will be the men who are looking for a good time. She will not find a suitable replacement for you, and she will regret what she's done someday. My ex found a felon, who had convictions for assault, and a conviction for murder. He's been a free man for about 8 months. I wish her the best...

* Put confidence on your face, and don't be the kind husband you've always been. Hard habit to break, but essential in your steps forward. She is your enemy. You wouldn't be nice, and kind, to someone who shot you with a gun. The bullet wound would be less painful.

Just my thoughts. Follow what those who have good advice tell you to do on this site. These are just things I wanted to a share with you that I wish someone shared with me.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

johnnahak said:


> I don't really understand why people here think that I want to reconciliate.
> 
> No, I don't want to reconciliate.
> 
> ...


Good, now go scorched earth and I am glad you have made a decision to proceed. You have got this. No more messing around.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

You are being gaslighted. Very bad sign. This is a WW who will take her cheating and compound it with cruelty and mental torture in service of her own agenda. Ask me how I know. 

Let's say for argument's sake they were "just joking around." Take away the fact that it's a certainty they've been engaged in a physical affair. What would you advise any other husband who found a text stream between his wife and another man bantering about exchanging oral sex? 

Just by itself, this is a complete violation of the marital vows and a shattering of the marital covenant. Simply by itself, this sole act of texting. 

Now add to that the certainty of physical adultery, gaslighting you, and deploying a cake-eating Plan A/Plan B strategy (you're plan B) where she gets to test drive a new model while you pine away.

You're doing what is called the pick-me dance. You should read "No More Nice Guy" and harden up. Get an attorney, file for D, no more pick-me dance, no more handwringing, no more waiting around lonely nights wondering what she's up to. Blow up the fantasy. Expose. Tell her family. Find the other betrayed spouse and tell them. 

Go hard grey rock and end it.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

She's not interested in salvaging your marriage, and frankly, I would not waste my own energy trying. It's a dead end road. Her messages with this other guy are inappropriate to say the least. The guy has a wife? Expose them! See how fast that s*** ends. Then go 180 on your wife.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I would have suggested he hold exposure over her head until the divorce is finalized. Just more leverage.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"She ordered...". lol


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sand, IMO.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

The fact that she didnt show you those photos is yet more confirmation of their cheating. If they are innocent then why not show you?


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## shortbus (Jul 25, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> Sand, IMO.


Good to see you, it's been a while.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Glad you are moving forward with a plan. You know, I think as you detach you will begin to see that even without the affair she was a crap wife. From the way you have described her she is lazy, a slob, doesn't have any regard for your sexual needs, and overall is an emotionally detached person all around.


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## Buffer (Dec 17, 2019)

Sorry brother, 
Be strong and hard 180, finances, Lawyer, medical checks, #1 priority are the children.
Tell all of STBX activities.
One day at a time.
Buffer


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

OP, will you please, PLEASE STOP telling your wife what you think and what you are doing!!!!!!!!!

It amazes me that a betrayed spouse thinks that confronting and telling the wayward spouse what they know or suspect will result in a sudden confession or instant regret or anything that will make the betrayed feel better. 

I see "I just want her to admit what she did.".....Most of the time they will gaslight. They rarely admit without being shown undeniable proof and sometime not even then.
I see " I want her to know how I feel, how much pain I am in because of what she did."..... SHE DOES NOT CARE!

When will these people learn to SHUT THE HE*LL UP, gather evidence, and prepare for what is to come by protecting themselves and any children?

When a betrayed finally understands and accepts what is going on, they should treat the betrayer like an enemy. Do not tell your enemy what you have done, how you feel, nor what you plan to do.


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## johnnahak (Nov 26, 2020)

Hi everyone. Its been a while.

Gained access to her phone and found out this guy was hiding under a fake female name on her contact list. Found out they had plans at the end of june. Coincidentally just when she disabled (by mistake) her facebook location sharing thingy.

Confronted her once again. Asked her then why you named this guy with a female name on your phone? I had no answer to my question except "Because! I don't have any reason to give you".

Went to see a lawyer to arrange for a divorce. Everything is almost sorted out. Except that we both have Covid right now and she won't be looking for her own place anytime soon because we are in lockdown. We still sleep in the same bed. Hugged her by accident one night while I was dreaming. In the morning she asked me if I did it on purpose. I said no.

I'm slowly detaching myself from this relationship until we can both move on with our lives. 
I announced the kids that we are divorcing.

Thanks again everyone. Always trust your gut feeling. Fighting gaslighting is easy when you trust your guts.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@johnnahak Thanks for the update. Stay strong and check in if you need cheering up, advice, or a chat.


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## Kamstel2 (Feb 24, 2020)

Just checking in on you. 

How are you doing? Hope you are feeling better. 

What happened with the scumbag’ s wife?

Hang in there, and good luck


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Sad to read your story, but I suppose it at least has come to a conclusion in a reasonably timeframe although utterly ****ty time of year for this to happen.

Just be strong and power through this so you can go and find your happiness away from this awful woman.


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