# Can you REALLY do anything to get a better sex life?



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

So the question seems pretty easy to say, "Yes, of course you can!" but hear me out.

We talk about reading books on how to change yourself and your perspective? I wonder how many people that works for?

We talk about counseling? Does that really work as after all BOTH parnters have to be into the counseling to then be into sex.

Leaving and divorce is always an option but there is no guarantee we will find someone better. We could just be left "playing the field" for a while (or forever) to find someone that is sexual yet also a good partner for other reasons.


So don't get me wrong as I know some of these can work "sometime" but if any of them always worked, would we ever have anyone asking\complaining about their sex life?

I suppose I compare it to jobs. Most people would like to make as much money at their job as they can to benefit themselves. But no matter how hard some try, they just cannot make more than say others who for all apsects may be just the same as them. Same with health. Everyone wants to be healthy but some are just better or more fortunate at being healthy than others. Now that is somewhwta genetic but that leads to my question if sex is somewhat genetic whereby others are destined to have better sex lives than others.

Seems a bit out there maybe but just curious as no matter what you read here or in other places, there sure are A LOT of unhappy married folks with their sex lives. I have said it before and still believe it from what I read but I would say only about half of married couples enjoy their sex lives. Maybe even less than that?

Why is something that is so easy to do, so difficult to improve?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> We talk about counseling? Does that really work as after all BOTH parnters have to be into the counseling to then be into sex.


I had never intended for it to work if we got to that point. I expected it would be an item to cross off on the way to divorce.



FloridaGuy1 said:


> Leaving and divorce is always an option but there is no guarantee we will find someone better.


Of course not. The point where divorce sounds like a good idea is when you have the self esteem/worth to believe you can find a partner that can also fulfill your sexual needs.



FloridaGuy1 said:


> So don't get me wrong as I know some of these can work "sometime" but if any of them always worked


None of the books say they always work and each situation is different. Many go out of their way to point out they may not work. This is why the general recipe is to 180 and begin to detach. Either your partner comes to you or you gain the confidence you need to move on.



FloridaGuy1 said:


> But no matter how hard some try, they just cannot make more than say others who for all apsects may be just the same as them.


No two people are exactly the same. People who speak like this kind of think, “This thing happened to me.” I think like, “I made the thing happen.” As an example when I negotiated the contract for my current position my boss at the time had to go to the board of directors to get my salary approved. When they approved it he texted me back and said, “Jesus I should have asked for more (for himself).” 

People are not identical 1-1 replacements for each other at least not for skilled labor.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> my question if sex is somewhat genetic whereby others are destined to have better sex lives than others.


Sex is absolutely genetic. Some people win the genetic lottery in sex, some in brains, some in financial acumen, some in appearance and looks, some in musical/artistic talent, etc, etc, etc.

I recently watched the Olympics. Every time I watch the Olympics, I think to myself .... "....that gold medalist is going forth from here to a stellar career, making lots of money, playing the best venues..... that silver medalist is going to have a mediocre career, playing the second-rate venues, and having a job to support him/herself.....and that bronze medalist .... well, who was the bronze medalist ??...."....

Some of us can score a different partner every week. Some of us can't make out in a whorehouse with a $500 bill.....

If you take 10 men, and 10 women, all of whom know each other.....
9 of the men will have had sex with 1 of the 10 women.
10 women will have each had sex with 2 of the men.
The alpha man will have screwed all 10 women, who all thought they would be "the one".... but they were only "one more".....

All 10 women will despise their husbands for not being "alpha", and have no sexual interest in them, they will be only for "security" and "provision". Their husbands lost the genetic lottery, and, any chance at all of having a satisfactory sex life.

No, the alpha man did not marry any of the 10 women, he moved on to 10 more women. He didn't marry any of them, either.



FloridaGuy1 said:


> Why is something that is so easy to do, so difficult to improve?


Because the "rules" are totally confining, limiting the partner choices severely. You cannot change another person. No matter what you are, you can be married to someone who doesn't desire sex at all, having nothing to do with you, your appearance, your mannerisms, your "alpha" or your "beta".

Almost universally, no matter how much of a "dud" your partner is, he/she will absolutely not accept your getting sex somewhere else.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

You could say that about almost anything when it comes to relationships with others - platonic, family, romantic -- how hard is it for couples to communicate? Or agree on "chores"? Or combine finances? Or choose how to spend free time?

The difference with sex is that it's such a personal and primal need. And with monogamy, we aren't supposed to meet that need outside of our primary relationship. So we are more "at the mercy" of our partner when it comes to sex than we are with many other relationship needs...so that contributes to it being an emotionally charged issue.

The ONLY way to change the sexual dynamic between couples with a differing drives that I've seen is when they are both CARING and willing to COMPROMISE. If your spouse doesn't care about your needs, you aren't going to get anywhere, whether low-drive or high-drive.

For ME...NO, there is no guarantee that I will find a better sexual partner who I actually want to be with as a person as well, but the bottom line was that I had NO interest in having the responsibilities of being a "wife" if I didn't get any of the benefits.
I refused to accept being USED by a man who didn't care about ME at all...which is what his attitude made increasingly clear to me.

No sex is a SYMPTOM of what is wrong in a relationship, unless both partners are happy with it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Three very interesting replies! Thanks you all!!!


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't think you can "really" do anything to get a better sex life _if you approach that goal from the direction of "what can I do to change my partner"._ You actually see that a lot. People come here wanting to know how they can change their wife or husband into a horny sex kitten/god. Well, the answer is they can't change their partner into anything. Because you cannot change another person.

However, if the question becomes "how can I change _myself_ to evoke a different reaction from my partner", well, then there's usually something to work with. And, if you sustain a change - usually a reversion - to treating your partner like you did when you were dating them instead of married to them, then often you'll get a pleasing response. 

No, agreed, chances of success are very low if your partner has completely disconnected and is no longer interested in pleasing you. In that case you've really generally got nothing to work with and it's time to pull the plug. Also, if you married your partner despite numerous, often _glaring_, red flags about your sexual (or other) incompatibility, then you may just need to end the relationship amicably instead of continuing to beat a horse that was actually dead well before you even arrived on-scene.

But, for the general, run of the mill, "my partner isn't hot for me anymore" it's probably a safe place to start with some self-examination. Not "how do I change my partner" but rather "how can I change my own behaviors to get a better response." You'll usually know within a few months of your own _sustained_ change whether there's any chance of turning things around in your relationship. And you'll likely have learned a lot for the future even if your current relationship isn't salvageable.

Bonus tip: This also works with most things in a relationship, not just sex. Clean up your own side of the street before you go complaining about your partner's. Then, see if your partner is willing to work with you. But don't _start _with directing "you need fixing" at your partner. A quick glance at basic human nature would tend to indicate that's not a great way to get buy-in from anyone on _anything_.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

One thing any and every man can do to improve his sex life... get clean from porn and masturbation.

Try it men, it really works. It’ll bring out the “alpha” that exists deep inside all men.

When sexual satisfaction ain’t easy or free... you’ll find yourself back on the “hunt”. It’s exhilarating really.

Based on my reading on TAM, very few men have the cojones to hack it though.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So the question seems pretty easy to say, "Yes, of course you can!" but hear me out.
> 
> We talk about reading books on how to change yourself and your perspective? I wonder how many people that works for?
> 
> ...


We have a tendency to generalize our specific situation to the wider world. From reading your thread history, I conclude you have been unhappy for a long time with your marital intimacy. And all that keeps you where you are is the financial cost (exit cost) to leave. Understandable. But just because you are miserable doesn't mean that a majority or even large minority are in the same boat. Maybe there are surveys out there to clarify. If we went by the threads on TAM, we might conclude a majority are unhappy, but TAM is only the energized minority who need to vent somewhere about their misery.

As a counter, I will say nearly ALL of the married folks we know show no sign of being unhappily married. And yes, we only see the facade they present, so behind closed doors maybe they are miserable. I see the way they look at one another while we are around them, and the looks are of love for one another. The men talk with me and women talk with my wife, sometimes about the details of their lives. They all express feeling blest with their partner. My best friend should have never married. Both of his marriages were disasters and he has been miserable married his whole life. Like you he won't set himself free for financial reasons. So he will die miserable and leave a lot of money for someone else to spend. He is the minority of the people we know.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

From what I’ve experienced in previous LTR’s and now marriage it’s really dependent on the partner. My ex was much more sexual than my wife and wanted it all the time. But she ended up being an awful person and cheated on me. I think high sex drive can possibly make someone more prone to cheating maybe? My wife is a much better person but no matter what I do I can’t get her to want to have sex more. It would have been nice to have found someone who was a happy medium but I have to take the plus with the minus I guess.

I also kind of feel like maybe there’s a shelf life for sexual interest in any relationship. Maybe it’s cynical, but my view is that it’s hard to stay attracted to someone after the honeymoon phase is over, the new love hormones wear off, and you start to realize all your differences. It’s just what I’ve experienced in every relationship after 2-4 years. Also factor in work, kids, lack of time, money issues, etc. and it’s safe to assume that spark isn’t coming back. 

There’s that saying “it doesn’t matter how pretty she (or he) is, someone somewhere is sick of their ****”.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> We have a tendency to generalize our specific situation to the wider world. From reading your thread history, I conclude you have been unhappy for a long time with your marital intimacy. And all that keeps you where you are is the financial cost (exit cost) to leave. Understandable. But just because you are miserable doesn't mean that a majority or even large minority are in the same boat. Maybe there are surveys out there to clarify. If we went by the threads on TAM, we might conclude a majority are unhappy, but TAM is only the energized minority who need to vent somewhere about their misery.
> 
> As a counter, I will say nearly ALL of the married folks we know show no sign of being unhappily married. And yes, we only see the facade they present, so behind closed doors maybe they are miserable. I see the way they look at one another while we are around them, and the looks are of love for one another. The men talk with me and women talk with my wife, sometimes about the details of their lives. They all express feeling blest with their partner. My best friend should have never married. Both of his marriages were disasters and he has been miserable married his whole life. Like you he won't set himself free for financial reasons. So he will die miserable and leave a lot of money for someone else to spend. He is the minority of the people we know.


Well, I think there can also be a distnction made between a happy marriage and a good sex life. Most would say they go hand in hand and I agree but I do think there are some elements of separation. Us for example. I think we have a happy marriage. Yesterday was an example. I took the day off, the wife and I went to a local park for a walk, went out to lunch, went shopping and spent the whole day together. Had a great time. But no sex was involved. Would I have wanted sex to be involved? Of course! But did we still have a great day together? We did!

I think thats the weak part of our marriage but otherwise (and to those who know us) we are a "happily married couple"

All that being said to state, I think you can be a happily married couple and still one partner (male or female) could be unhappy with the sexual part of the marriage. Maybe thats just my thinking?

My overall thought though is the reserach I have done (a Kinsey based report a few years back and some others) that indicates only around half of married people are happy with their sex lives. They are probably happy with other parts in greater percentages....I just always wonder why the sex part is so tricky??? Maybe its based on what some have offered in this thread?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> One thing any and every man can do to improve his sex life... get clean from porn and masturbation.
> 
> Try it men, it really works. It’ll bring out the “alpha” that exists deep inside all men.
> 
> ...


But wouldn't you say some resort to porn to "solve" their problem? I am more or less off porn as to me it was the analogy of going to a great steak house and having a salad. I got tired of seeing many people just like me (amateur porn) doing all the things I wanted to do. So the interest in that waned and I was done. Maybe it was just jealousy?

Yet many guys go and check it out BECAUSE of the natural urge for sex and being told No by their partner. And what about the couples who watch together?

So I agree with what you are saying as it can be detrmental and can lead to problems but I wouldn't say just stopping watching porn is going to solve someones low sex life.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But wouldn't you say some resort to porn to "solve" their problem? I am more or less off porn as to me it was the analogy of going to a great steak house and having a salad. I got tired of seeing many people just like me (amateur porn) doing all the things I wanted to do. So the interest in that waned and I was done. Maybe it was just jealousy?
> 
> Yet many guys go and check it out BECAUSE of the natural urge for sex and being told No by their partner. And what about the couples who watch together?
> 
> So I agree with what you are saying as it can be detrmental and can lead to problems but I wouldn't say just stopping watching porn is going to solve someones low sex life.


I agree, but the “No porn” approach would even help bad marriages because men would be so frustrated about no sex they’d either fix the marriage or get the heck out. Porn in bad marriages just prolongs the inevitable, doesn’t it?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@FloridaGuy1 there are things that can be done. That said, it requires someone have the stones to actually implement them. Furthermore, the first step is to remove yourself from the victim chair.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

CatholicDad said:


> I agree, but the “No porn” approach would even help bad marriages because men would be so frustrated about no sex they’d either fix the marriage or get the heck out. Porn in bad marriages just prolongs the inevitable, doesn’t it?


For once, I completely agree with you!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

IMO, the best way to have a better sex life is to get a better partner. In almost all cases where a couple has a poor or declining sex life, it is mainly due to one person who loses interest (for whatever reason, including medical or aging) or has developed a lot of resentment. That's almost impossible to fix, as we've read here all too often. I suggest you make a reasonable effort over a predetermined time period to see improvement, or get out.

Even with a much better, more consistent partner, over the long term there will be _some_ ebb and flow in quantity and quality, and some impact due to aging and health issues. However, with such a partner one's sex life almost never gets _poor_, and it can usually be improved fairly easily and quickly because both still actually enjoy sexual intimacy and care about each other's happiness and sexual fulfillment. When one stops caring the quality of the marriage greatly declines in all ways.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well, I think there can also be a distnction made between a happy marriage and a good sex life. Most would say they go hand in hand and I agree but I do think there are some elements of separation. Us for example. I think we have a happy marriage. Yesterday was an example. I took the day off, the wife and I went to a local park for a walk, went out to lunch, went shopping and spent the whole day together. Had a great time. But no sex was involved. Would I have wanted sex to be involved? Of course! But did we still have a great day together? We did!
> 
> I think thats the weak part of our marriage but otherwise (and to those who know us) we are a "happily married couple"
> 
> ...


The day you described is something I could do (and do) with my best girlfriend. Add in an amazing dinner out and staying up until 2am talking and laughing. 

What you described is a happy friendship. Friends who happen to be married. But it's a way different kind of marriage than some other people have, in which in addition to the friendship there is a mutual, ongoing, satisfying sex life. The sexual part is what makes the marriage different than other life friendships.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> I agree, but the “No porn” approach would even help bad marriages because men would be so frustrated about no sex they’d either fix the marriage or get the heck out. Porn in bad marriages just prolongs the inevitable, doesn’t it?


This exactly.

I knew something was off with it but I couldn’t put it to words. I even mentioned it to my wife a few years back and she thought I was weird.

Once I dropped the porn it suddenly became way more imperative that I sort out our sexual relationship or leave.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But wouldn't you say some resort to porn to "solve" their problem? I am more or less off porn as to me it was the analogy of going to a great steak house and having a salad. I got tired of seeing many people just like me (amateur porn) doing all the things I wanted to do. So the interest in that waned and I was done. Maybe it was just jealousy?
> 
> Yet many guys go and check it out BECAUSE of the natural urge for sex and being told No by their partner. And what about the couples who watch together?
> 
> So I agree with what you are saying as it can be detrmental and can lead to problems but I wouldn't say just stopping watching porn is going to solve someones low sex life.


Yes, but is that the ONLY step you've taken to resolve your unsatisfying sex life?

You can analyze and muse upon this topic every day, but it isn't going to actually RESOLVE your discontent - that's going to take ACTION...and not one single thing is going to change until you start making changes.

You seem like you are waiting...for what, I'm not sure. But nothing new is coming to you, because you are with someone who is very accustomed to getting her own way, and who doesn't really care about your needs or your unhappiness (for whatever reason)...and so has absolutely NO incentive to change anything.

You have set up a relationship where SHE makes all the rules - and YOU dutifully follow them. How often do you challenge her? How often are you an advocate for yourself and YOUR needs? Have you ever done "the 180" to get her attention?

YOU have given up your sexual power in your marriage, because there is part of you that is ashamed for wanting sex, and ashamed of standing up for yourself, and ashamed of feeling entitled to having an equal say about your sex life. 
You have got to take that power back...but part of that is being willing to follow that ALL the way back, which means leaving her if you must, either to show you refuse to have a partner who disregards you so completely or to show you would rather be alone and happy than to be with someone who makes you feel unwanted and unhappy.

If you are unwilling to go that far, then having pleasant days with your wife like you are great friends is what you have to look forward to, because that is what makes HER happy, and she doesn't care that YOU want more. And there is nothing wrong with that if you can find a way to be satisfied with it. 

Some people prefer the security of marriage, even when it doesn't meet all of their needs, particularly when it comes to their sexual needs. For some reason, having our sexual needs met is almost the last need that people feel deserving of and are willing to disrupt their relationships over.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> From what I’ve experienced in previous LTR’s and now marriage it’s really dependent on the partner. My ex was much more sexual than my wife and wanted it all the time. But she ended up being an awful person and cheated on me. I think high sex drive can possibly make someone more prone to cheating maybe? My wife is a much better person but no matter what I do I can’t get her to want to have sex more. It would have been nice to have found someone who was a happy medium but I have to take the plus with the minus I guess.
> 
> *I also kind of feel like maybe there’s a shelf life for sexual interest in any relationship. Maybe it’s cynical, but my view is that it’s hard to stay attracted to someone after the honeymoon phase is over, the new love hormones wear off, and you start to realize all your differences. It’s just what I’ve experienced in every relationship after 2-4 years. Also factor in work, kids, lack of time, money issues, etc. and it’s safe to assume that spark isn’t *coming back.
> 
> There’s that saying “it doesn’t matter how pretty she (or he) is, someone somewhere is sick of their ****”.


Maybe we are in the minority. But, that is a little difficult to believe because we are both in most respects as average as can be. We have all the trials and tribulations life has to offer. In our case the sexual interest in one another and being attracted to one another has remained intense, through the honeymoon, through hormones, through 4 kids, work, money issues, in sickness and in health, the whole enchilada. For more than 5 decades. And our parents were no different. 

I will submit though that a vibrant intimate life is essential but not sufficient for a satisfying marriage. A couple has to actually like and respect one another.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> IMO, the best way to have a better sex life is to get a better partner. In almost all cases where a couple has a poor or declining sex life, it is mainly due to one person who loses interest (for whatever reason, including medical or aging) or has developed a lot of resentment. That's almost impossible to fix, as we've read here all too often. I suggest you make a reasonable effort over a predetermined time period to see improvement, or get out.
> 
> Even with a much better, more consistent partner, over the long term there will be _some_ ebb and flow in quantity and quality, and some impact due to aging and health issues. However, with such a partner one's sex life almost never gets _poor_, and it can usually be improved fairly easily and quickly because both still actually enjoy sexual intimacy and care about each other's happiness and sexual fulfillment. When one stops caring the quality of the marriage greatly declines in all ways.


BRILLIANT!!!

In my experience, it's not the lack of sex that's the problem - it's the lack of having a caring partner that wants to meet your needs. If you have a relationship with someone who truly cares about you (and you about them), then the ebb and flow of sex - and everything else - is manageable and doesn't make us feel as hopeless as when we are with someone who doesn't care about us at all.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

jjj858 said:


> *I also kind of feel like maybe there’s a shelf life for sexual interest in any relationship.* Maybe it’s cynical, but my view is that it’s hard to stay attracted to someone after the honeymoon phase is over, the new love hormones wear off, and you start to realize all your differences. It’s just what I’ve experienced in every relationship after 2-4 years. Also factor in work, kids, lack of time, money issues, etc. and it’s safe to assume that spark isn’t coming back.
> 
> There’s that saying “it doesn’t matter how pretty she (or he) is, someone somewhere is sick of their ****”.


I disagree with this, and I intend to find and consciously cultivate consistent desire with a new partner...who also wants that with ME.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I disagree with this, and I intend to find and consciously cultivate consistent desire with a new partner...who also wants that with ME.


But are you marrying him? I think thats the difference.

I do think he might be onto something however as how does one explain people like my wife who while dating were into sex and really wanted it, then a few years after marriage lost interest? Maybe it was her way of catching a husband? Maybe it was me? Not sure?

But aside from leaving, doesn't seem like that can be solved? And how do you prevent that next time? I guess just don't ever get married again as there is no real way to guarantee it won't happen again.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Yeah when we were dating she certainly made more of an effort. Not only that but I could tell when she was actually aroused and really wanted to make love. Now it seems like she’s going through the motions. The only time she seems to say “want to make love?” is when I’m laying in bed literally half asleep after a long day at work and have to be up in five hours for work again. It’s like she does that deliberately because she’s knows I’m too tired and will say no, but she can at least claim she tried. I’ve begun to resent when she brings it up because it never seems sincere to me. There’s times when we are home in the afternoon on a weekday or a weekend and she never mentions sex or shows any interest. I’ve stopped asking because I’m tired of being turned down or feeling like I’m making someone do something they don’t really want to do. I’m starting to not even care if we have sex either way.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

jjj858 said:


> ... I’ve stopped asking because I’m tired of being turned down or feeling like I’m making someone do something they don’t really want to do. I’m starting to not even care if we have sex either way.


She's got you conditioned. She won. Now it's up to you to continue accepting this, or do something about it (which almost always means leaving, IMO).


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Instead of wondering if you’ll find someone new after leaving a dead bedroom, there is another option:

stop caring if you find someone new.

I have gotten to that point in my life. If my dead bedroom ever returns and my wife and I can’t fix it after giving 100% effort, then I’d rather be alone. I have less of a desire to be in a dead bedroom over being alone.

funny thing is this; when you get to that point and you are content on your own is usually when someone kinda cool shows up in your life. 😎


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But aside from leaving, doesn't seem like that can be solved? And how do you prevent that next time? I guess just don't ever get married again as there is no real way to guarantee it won't happen again.


Yeah, I’ve already said to myself that if this marriage ends I’m absolutely never getting married again. There’s no way to guarantee this won’t happen again because in my experience it’s happened in literally every relationship I’ve had. If you have put forth some backbreaking level of effort just to get someone to want you and maintain things that’s just not worth it.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

ccpowerslave said:


> This exactly.
> 
> I knew something was off with it but I couldn’t put it to words. I even mentioned it to my wife a few years back and she thought I was weird.
> 
> Once I dropped the porn it suddenly became way more imperative that I sort out our sexual relationship or leave.


Thank you for sharing. This is the heart of why I say porn wrecks marriage. I think men (like myself) are good at being aloof and disconnected when over-sexed (even if over-sexed via porn). Men thrive when “hungry”... just our nature. My take is God gave us our sex drive to get us to continually seek out closeness with our wives- not just procreation. I’m droning on again on another porn rant 😜.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

It does become a vicious circle when you reach the point of “she doesn’t want to have sex anyways so I’m gonna take care of myself”. There’s no drive to fix any lingering issues in the marriage involving sexual issues because you’ve already satisfied yourself.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

jjj858 said:


> Yeah, I’ve already said to myself that if this marriage ends I’m absolutely never getting married again. There’s no way to guarantee this won’t happen again because in my experience it’s happened in literally every relationship I’ve had. If you have put forth some backbreaking level of effort just to get someone to want you and maintain things that’s just not worth it.


I know what you mean. After a 20 year marriage that ended and this one that while OK is not great sex-wise, I wouldn;t do it again.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Instead of wondering if you’ll find someone new after leaving a dead bedroom, there is another option:
> 
> stop caring if you find someone new.
> 
> ...


Yeah I know. Its just after going through one divorce after a long term marriage, you always remember how that felt and how crappy it was.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My take on your wife is that she did what was necessary when you were dating so that you would marry her and she could quit her job. _*OR*_. She may have even have meant some or most of what she was doing while you were dating but quickly got bored once you were married. That happens more than people realize. And, no, I don’t believe that desire really comes back for more than a few. I think a lot of women pretend (and we can be very good at it) when faced with a husband willing to divorce over sex. Right now, your wife’s happy because … why wouldn’t she be. Everything goes her way.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> Thank you for sharing. This is the heart of why I say porn wrecks marriage. I think men (like myself) are good at being aloof and disconnected when over-sexed (even if over-sexed via porn). Men thrive when “hungry”... just our nature. My take is God gave us our sex drive to get us to continually seek out closeness with our wives- not just procreation. I’m droning on again on another porn rant 😜.


@dadstartingover has a podcast on porn and he explains it really well in just a couple minutes. You should be having sex instead of watching other people having sex. Makes a lot of sense.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> @dadstartingover has a podcast on porn and he explains it really well in just a couple minutes. You should be having sex instead of watching other people having sex. Makes a lot of sense.


I think anyone would agree with that!!!


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

David:---"I wish I could say different but I've never seen a married couple able to improve their sex live."

James:--"Actually we were able to"

David:--"How'd you do that?"

James:.."We got separate beds."

David:--"Separate beds! You're going to have to explain how that worked"

James:--"Of course. Hers is on the east side of town on Maple Avenue and mine is 15 miles west, outside the city limits."


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But are you marrying him? I think thats the difference.
> 
> I do think he might be onto something however as how does one explain people like my wife who while dating were into sex and really wanted it, then a few years after marriage lost interest? Maybe it was her way of catching a husband? Maybe it was me? Not sure?
> 
> But aside from leaving, doesn't seem like that can be solved? And how do you prevent that next time? I guess just don't ever get married again as there is no real way to guarantee it won't happen again.


Well, there is no "him" yet...and I don't know if I would ever marry again, but not because I think there is some magical sex-killing effect of marriage. I believe mostly it's due to SELFISHNESS, plain and simple. Now, maybe the security of marriage brings that out, but I don't believe that's always true. It's a character flaw, that's all. The only thing "marriage" does is make it harder to leave...but in my case, it's actually been frighteningly simple to get divorced.

This shouldn't have happened to me, because I was VERY CLEAR with my STBX what my sexual needs and expectations were. I actually thought I was going to make him SO happy, because sex is my primary need in a relationship, and he also told me he felt the same way...but he LIED. He knew what I needed, he knew what HE really wanted (very little sex), and he LIED.

We had other big problems as well, but his refusal to care about my sexual needs at all was a symptom of what a selfish person he is in EVERY OTHER WAY (and I think that's a common occurrence with other couples, as well)...and there is just no way to compel a person to care about you if they don't want to on their own. It just took the sex finally going completely away for me to see it that way (I had a bad case of "orgasm goggles"...which I'm scared of getting again!).

So how do I prevent it next time...?? I have NO freakin' idea...and it's a little scary, to be honest. In fact, everything about being single is quite scary (especially after reading all these TAM threads all the time!). But I have accepted that there are NO guarantees in life - NOT ONE. All I can do is my best, and care about myself and be open and honest about my needs and feelings, and then be brave and move forward...never stay stuck, mired in unhappiness and resignation.

That's the kind of life I want to live - positive and happy! And if I find someone who wants to join me on my silly adventures, GREAT...but if I don't, that's ok too!!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

@LisaDiane did he flip on you or something where he was up for it a lot and then wasn’t later or was he all talk but no action the whole time?

I have found amazing improvement in my wife being sexually interested and available mostly by implementing the manosphere stuff. 

After lunch today she was all over me in the kitchen. I was smelling her hair which sometimes she comments on and says, “Well it’s ok because you’re not a creepy groper.” So I was like ok well I’m not creepy. She then accused me of not being a groper either. So it was time for groping action. Her response, “Well I groped you last night.” Cha-ching!!! 🤑🤑🤑🤑

Anyway I think for men, if she hasn’t checked out and you ever had any kind of game, and she doesn’t have a physical or mental issue, you can get your game back.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> some magical sex-killing effect of marriage


Yes, they are also known as “children”. It’s a proven fact, trust me


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Yes, they are also known as “children”. It’s a proven fact, trust me


Lol!!! Funny!!
Isn't that a sex-killing effect of SEX, though?? You don't need to be married, or even know eachother's names for that to happen!!! 

Marriage increased my sexual desire for both my partners...but it wasn't really "marriage", it was a deepening of the relationship that would have occurred even if we weren't married. The more comfortable and committed I felt, the more my desire increased. And I expect that to happen for me in any LTR.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Anyway I think for men, if she hasn’t checked out


I think thats the key...she has to at least have SOME interest and then you have something to work with. My wife does not. Hence my situation.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> @LisaDiane did he flip on you or something where he was up for it a lot and then wasn’t later or was he all talk but no action the whole time?
> 
> I have found amazing improvement in my wife being sexually interested and available mostly by implementing the manosphere stuff.
> 
> ...


He was all talk and no action the whole time. He said things that he never intended on following through on. But it was 20 years ago and I had no idea what I was dealing with, and he had a laundry list of excuses (that kept changing), and he kept telling me it was ME.

And every time I was truly fed up and ready to leave, he'd throw out some sex crumbs and a bunch of flowery explanations, and I fell for it.

But that was never about meeting my needs at all - it was only about meeting his own needs to keep his marriage - so it never lasted. Because it wasn't REAL.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Leaving and divorce is always an option but there is no guarantee we will find someone better.


One must evaluate what "better" means to them given the circumstances and conditions in which he/she finds him/herself. 

Is the standard of 'better' based on 10 years ago when you were young and carefree and in love and having wild monkey sex 3 times a day??

Or is 'better' a first date with someone off of a dating app who actually talks to you and takes an interest in getting to know better and seems to actually enjoy being in your company vs your current partner who hasn't touched you in a year and will only talk to you about bills and household functions with as few syllables and as little eye contact as possible? 

'Better" is comparative. But comparative to what? When things were at their best? Or now?

Better compared to 20 years ago when you were young and in love and full of life and hopes and dreams, may be kind of tall order. 

But if compared to now when your partner hasn't desired you in years and doesn't really even speak to you in any meaningful manner, better may not be much of a stretch.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I have perhaps an odd, but I think, interesting perspective....

Let me start by stating that my opinion is that we, as humans are just more highly evolved creatures, but still are "hard wired" in certain areas just like many others down the evolutionary chain....One of these happens to be sex...And it's actually a good design, when you strip out the emotion of it...

Take a look at most animals...They aren't made for pairing up with one individual of the opposite sex for life...They wander...they are driven to diversity in this area...Its a purposeful plan to assure genetic diversity and active propagation of the species...Without this wandering most would go extinct in no time flat...I even breed some animals that are low in intelligence, and yet, even they will mate with each other on certain occasions, then not mate on others...Yet put another "strange" animal and it's game on....This is a designed feature that is hard wired...

What happens with humans, is I think that same type of hard wiring is still inside of all of us, but society(and perhaps religion) has forced us to to suppress it...And just think of all the hurt one has to endure once they have been betrayed....It's horrible..Think of what people put at risk to act on those urges,,,,Some even murder others over it...

So what to do then?? How do we make it so that it's not only awesome. it also is lasting and enduring?

_Pay very close attention to this aspect when choosing a mate._. As a man, if your woman walking up to you in the street doesn't make you stop in your tracks at the sight of her, then you are probably going to better deal her at some point...You will probably go bored of her sexually no matter how good she does other things...Same for women...Stop picking guys because they can provide...Sure, its great to drive around in a Land Rover and have a shore house, but if you can't stand to look at him, what good are all those things in the end??...

So all we are doing here is preventing that which is in probably all of us, to propagate the species and create genetic diversity...Think about how many times you may have had sex with someone for no apparent reason...It wasn't just for "fun" you were subconsciously acting on biological urges that are in all of us....If we stack the odds in our favor by choosing a mate that clicks those boxes, then there usually isn't a chance to act on that urge.....or destroy an otherwise great marriage or relationship


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> Yes, they are also known as “children”. It’s a proven fact, trust me


Having "children" had no effect on our love life except had to take care to be quieter in evening because we lived in a small house. On weekends they were outside in the backyard or playing with friends at the park, so all we needed to listen for was backdoor opening. People have been having kids forever, and somehow they don't stop with just one. Kids only destroy a couples sex life if they allow it to. Where there is a will there is a way


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> On weekends they were outside in the backyard or playing with friends at the park, so all we needed to listen for was backdoor opening.


This reminded me of an old joke about the best way to get some alone time was to throw 15 dimes into the back yard and tell the kids that you threw out $2.


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## TomJohnson (Nov 13, 2020)

Omg this is probably hitting it on the head. Unless you are willing to put up a fight for what U believe is important then you are stuck..

The notion that sex is one of the last things people ..especially men seem to be willing to bail on the marriage for. There also seems to be more women who are willing to shrug it off as a non issue. I did a 180 of sorts and things improved.. I also think that men who are either more alpha OR are hotter than their wife relatively speaking have a leg up vs men who "married up" in the sexy department. I think it comes down to subconsciously fearing the hotter one will leave. If the wife is hotter she may feel her presence Is enough.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TomJohnson said:


> Omg this is probably hitting it on the head. Unless you are willing to put up a fight for what U believe is important then you are stuck..
> 
> The notion that sex is one of the last things people ..especially men seem to be willing to bail on the marriage for. There also seems to be more women who are willing to shrug it off as a non issue. I did a 180 of sorts and things improved.. *I also think that men who are either more alpha OR are hotter than their wife relatively speaking have a leg up vs men who "married up" in the sexy department. * I think it comes down to subconsciously fearing the hotter one will leave. If the wife is hotter she may feel her presence Is enough.


An old song by the Coasters comes to mind" "If you wanna be happy / For the rest of your life / Never make a pretty *woman* your wife". I always thought men who married a starlet would have nothing but problems. The woman knows she has options and the man will constantly need to run off other males. Unfortunately , physical attractiveness is major coin of the realm for both genders.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> An old song by the Coasters comes to mind" "If you wanna be happy / For the rest of your life / Never make a pretty *woman* your wife". I always thought men who married a starlet would have nothing but problems. The woman knows she has options and the man will constantly need to run off other males. Unfortunately , physical attractiveness is major coin of the realm for both genders.


Agreed, but the problem today is even women who are average and below honestly think they are starlets.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So the question seems pretty easy to say, "Yes, of course you can!" but hear me out.
> 
> We talk about reading books on how to change yourself and your perspective? I wonder how many people that works for?
> 
> ...


Some people are never satisfied. Some people wake up happy and looking forward to life, and some people wake up complaining and rarely stay happy for long. 

Some people will change themselves if they're unhappy, and others will just rant about how unfair life is but aren't willing to make any changes and think the rest of the world should change to accommodate them and just grow even more bitter. No one wants to have sex with that.

Other than reminding people they can and should masturbate, my best advice is to remember that other people like people in their lives who are entertaining and fun to be around. If you're not that way naturally and you're not working to compensate for that by putting forth some effort, nothing much is going to improve for you.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> Agreed, but the problem today is even women who are average and below honestly think they are starlets.


Maybe so. I am an old guy happily married for a long time ( to a good looking woman, so broke the rules of the song. ) I have no idea what the dating ethic is these days, thankful am old enough will never need to learn.

But, my suspicion is that maybe people are "Lookin for love in all the wrong places". Three decades ago a friends wife told him she needed some time apart to "get herself sorted out". So he moves to an apartment, and next day he goes to their house to pick up some more clothes. The driveway is full and she is pullin a train in their bed. Just turned around, got back in his car and left. Devastated, he comes to me. I reminded him when he found this trash that he wouldn't find anyone worth having in a bar. He joined a singles group at a major church in town, been married to widow met there ever since.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But wouldn't you say some resort to porn to "solve" their problem? I am more or less off porn as to me it was the analogy of going to a great steak house and having a salad. I got tired of seeing many people just like me (amateur porn) doing all the things I wanted to do. So the interest in that waned and I was done. Maybe it was just jealousy?
> 
> Yet many guys go and check it out BECAUSE of the natural urge for sex and being told No by their partner. And what about the couples who watch together?
> 
> So I agree with what you are saying as it can be detrmental and can lead to problems but I wouldn't say just stopping watching porn is going to solve someones low sex life.


I think getting focused on porn only makes you want more and different sex with different partners. I think people certainly need to masturbate but I don't think they should absorb themselves in porn to do it if they are already too focused on sex. I think it just fuels the fire. I think people too focused on sex need to find something more meaningful to pursue in their life, whether it's a hobby they're passionate about or playing music or rescuing animals or working for some charity or their employment or fishing.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jjj858 said:


> From what I’ve experienced in previous LTR’s and now marriage it’s really dependent on the partner. My ex was much more sexual than my wife and wanted it all the time. But she ended up being an awful person and cheated on me. I think high sex drive can possibly make someone more prone to cheating maybe? My wife is a much better person but no matter what I do I can’t get her to want to have sex more. It would have been nice to have found someone who was a happy medium but I have to take the plus with the minus I guess.
> 
> I also kind of feel like maybe there’s a shelf life for sexual interest in any relationship. Maybe it’s cynical, but my view is that it’s hard to stay attracted to someone after the honeymoon phase is over, the new love hormones wear off, and you start to realize all your differences. It’s just what I’ve experienced in every relationship after 2-4 years. Also factor in work, kids, lack of time, money issues, etc. and it’s safe to assume that spark isn’t coming back.
> 
> There’s that saying “it doesn’t matter how pretty she (or he) is, someone somewhere is sick of their ****”.


I agree there is a shelf life for many and I attribute it to overfamiliarity, which encompasses what you're saying about getting to know a lot about your partner and maybe not liking all of it, but I also attribute it to becoming too familiar with them to the point you feel like they're a relative instead of a lover. 

That said there are people who find the relationship so challenging and intimacy unattainable at times that they never quite lose interest in having sex with them, but that is not always a healthy thing.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jjj858 said:


> It does become a vicious circle when you reach the point of “she doesn’t want to have sex anyways so I’m gonna take care of myself”. There’s no drive to fix any lingering issues in the marriage involving sexual issues because you’ve already satisfied yourself.


People shouldn't wait until their wife refuses them to masturbate. If they have a high drive they should just do masturbation as maintenance anytime it's convenient so they don't get pent up and crazy. I always thought this was obvious and commonly routine.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> From what I’ve experienced in previous LTR’s and now marriage it’s really dependent on the partner. My ex was much more sexual than my wife and wanted it all the time. But she ended up being an awful person and cheated on me. I think high sex drive can possibly make someone more prone to cheating maybe? My wife is a much better person but no matter what I do I can’t get her to want to have sex more. It would have been nice to have found someone who was a happy medium but I have to take the plus with the minus I guess.
> 
> I also kind of feel like maybe there’s a shelf life for sexual interest in any relationship. Maybe it’s cynical, but my view is that it’s hard to stay attracted to someone after the honeymoon phase is over, the new love hormones wear off, and you start to realize all your differences. It’s just what I’ve experienced in every relationship after 2-4 years. Also factor in work, kids, lack of time, money issues, etc. and it’s safe to assume that spark isn’t coming back.
> 
> There’s that saying “it doesn’t matter how pretty she (or he) is, someone somewhere is sick of their ****”.


jjj858, I wholeheartedly and respectfully, disagree. My whole experience has been the complete opposite of what you’ve stated - but to be fair, I am empathetic to your situation and understand how you’ve come to your conclusions.

I am HD. At 42 years old, I still have the same drive I did when I was 22. It really is no different. I want it daily. Here’s the kicker, I still dream sexually about my wife DAILY. That is who I want it from. After thousands of times having sex, I still want it from her. In addition, I dealt with a dead bedroom (from my HD perspective) for over a decade. I never cheated. I certainly felt tempted, but my convictions and values are stronger than my natural desire to have sex.
The spark can come back, but both people need to want it. I’m more in love with my wife today than what I was when we first started dating. Sure, we don’t look like what we used to, but I see her in a completely new light. I look at her differently when I actually feel loved as opposed to just trudging along through life. Her physical attractiveness skyrocketed when she made it clear she wanted to be with me as of late.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

What @LATERILUS79 said except I am older than him.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> jjj858, I wholeheartedly and respectfully, disagree. My whole experience has been the complete opposite of what you’ve stated - but to be fair, I am empathetic to your situation and understand how you’ve come to your conclusions.
> 
> I am HD. At 42 years old, I still have the same drive I did when I was 22. It really is no different. I want it daily. Here’s the kicker, I still dream sexually about my wife DAILY. That is who I want it from. After thousands of times having sex, I still want it from her. In addition, I dealt with a dead bedroom (from my HD perspective) for over a decade. I never cheated. I certainly felt tempted, but my convictions and values are stronger than my natural desire to have sex.
> The spark can come back, but both people need to want it. I’m more in love with my wife today than what I was when we first started dating. Sure, we don’t look like what we used to, but I see her in a completely new light. I look at her differently when I actually feel loved as opposed to just trudging along through life. Her physical attractiveness skyrocketed when she made it clear she wanted to be with me as of late.


I see what you’re saying and really it’s the same for me. I still am attracted to my wife and I still desire her. The issue is her desire. She claims she still feels the same about me but then we go weeks at a time. Or she shows very little affection in general. When we do engage each other to me it’s very vanilla and boring. She has a list of things she doesn’t like me to do, things that she never had issue with before. So her words and actions don’t match up. It has me feeling disconnected from her and even resenting her sometimes.

so you may desire your wife the same after all these years, but how do you know she feels the same about you?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I see what you’re saying and really it’s the same for me. I still am attracted to my wife and I still desire her. The issue is her desire. She claims she still feels the same about me but then we go weeks at a time. Or she shows very little affection in general. When we do engage each other to me it’s very vanilla and boring. She has a list of things she doesn’t like me to do, things that she never had issue with before. So her words and actions don’t match up. It has me feeling disconnected from her and even resenting her sometimes.
> 
> so you may desire your wife the same after all these years, but how do you know she feels the same about you?


I know my wife feels the same way as me just in the same way that you know that your wife does not share the same feelings towards you. We've all been with our SO long enough to know how they feel, plus actions certainly help solidify that. My wife and I text each other many times throughout the day. She anxiously awaits for my return from work and typically invites me to the bedroom. She has listened to my desires when I need an extra emotional bond during sex where I want to hold her tightly and I want passionate kissing. These are the things I need to feel loved. In return, I actively look for things all day to make her life easier as she is big on acts of service. I enjoy doing this for her because it makes her happy. We continually do things to make the other happy because in turn it makes us happy to see the other happy.

This requires both partners to buy in. Right now, your wife is not buying in.

What took me waaaaaaay too long to realize for my own personal well being is coming to grips with what I want out of my life. Me. That's it. I have obligations (such as my children), but I needed to do something for me. I think you need to come to the same mindset I am currently living in. I do not care how much a divorce will cost. It's just money. I don't care. It does not matter to me to only see my children 50% of the time. I guess I'm lucky in this regard. I'm very introverted and need a lot of alone time. I'd be perfectly fine only seeing them half of the time.

I've simply gotten myself to the point where I am perfectly fine leaving. My preference is to stay with the woman I am in love with, but if she stops loving me in the way that I need, then I'm perfectly fine with us going our separate ways. I'm Not saying it won't hurt. I'm sure it would, but I will live my life to the best I can from now on. She is well aware that we will never go back to a dead bedroom again and stay married. It's not possible. We will work together to always be there for each other and love each other. The same would go for me. If I slack and do not show her love in the way she requires, then I shouldn't be surprised if she wants to leave.

Thankfully, we both are loving each other right now in the way the other needs and doing it with a smile on our faces. Never thought I'd get to the point where I actively clean the entire kitchen and do all the dishes with a smile on my face.... and yet, here I am.

What you are describing with your wife is unacceptable by your standards. The only way I see fixing it is to sit and talk. Lay out your needs; What you require from your wife to feel fulfilled. To feel loved. Have her do the same for you. If she can't do it (or you can't for that matter), then talk about going your separate ways. I know you'll want to say it is more complicated than that. I get it. I allowed myself to hang out in limbo for far too long without getting down to the root of our problems. We continually talk and have been hashing out a lot of grievances with each other over the past 20 years. Stuff that should have been solved a long time ago, but at least we are doing it now. It is the only way I see getting past the resentment and looking forward to the present and future.

This is simply my personal opinion. I think you need to get yourself to the point where I am at today. Willing to walk away from everything in order to achieve contentment. Not happiness mind you, contentment. It is certainly a much better feeling than what you are feeling right now. If your wife is serious about keeping your marriage going, seeing you be able to detach and move forward with your life will knock her out of her haze real quick. If she doesn't care about your marriage, then maybe you can come to an amicable split nice and quick.

Quick edit. Leaving my wife “in case of” would definitely hurt, but at the end of the day, would be best for both of us so we can go find what we need in someone else.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I've simply gotten myself to the point where I am perfectly fine leaving. My preference is to stay with the woman I am in love with, but if she stops loving me in the way that I need, then I'm perfectly fine with us going our separate ways. I'm saying it won't hurt. I'm sure it would, but I will live my life to the best I can from now on. She is well aware that we will never go back to a dead bedroom again and stay married. It's not possible. We will work together to always be there for each other and love each other. The same would go for me. If I slack and do not show her love in the way she requires, then I shouldn't be surprised if she wants to leave.


THIS ^^^^


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I've simply gotten myself to the point where I am perfectly fine leaving. My preference is to stay with the woman I am in love with, but if she stops loving me in the way that I need, then I'm perfectly fine with us going our separate ways.


Back into the room after a self-imposed break for my sanity...  

I agree with the above. At one point, we need to start looking after number one. At 58, I'm running out of time. I still love my wife, but she clearly doesn't love me, so be it.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Back into the room after a self-imposed break for my sanity...
> 
> I agree with the above. At one point, we need to start looking after number one. At 58, I'm running out of time. I still love my wife, but she clearly doesn't love me, so be it.


and no one could say this is easy to do. It isn’t. I mean, maybe some could. Some might have gotten themselves to a detachment level that they are ready to move on without any emotions, but I’m certainly not. Too much history by this point. All I can say is that I’m ready to make the hard decision if it ever came to that because I know living in constant limbo misery sucks. I’d rather just rip the bandaid off.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LATERILUS79 said:


> and no one could say this is easy to do. It isn’t. I mean, maybe some could. Some might have gotten themselves to a detachment level that they are ready to move on without any emotions, but I’m certainly not. Too much history by this point. All I can say is that I’m ready to make the hard decision if it ever came to that because I know living in constant limbo misery sucks. I’d rather just rip the bandaid off.


You'll get there. It's not easy, but you will. I'm still struggling after 3 years. But the relief of not being in limbo anymore is immense.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Livvie said:


> The day you described is something I could do (and do) with my best girlfriend. Add in an amazing dinner out and staying up until 2am talking and laughing.
> 
> What you described is a happy friendship. Friends who happen to be married. But it's a way different kind of marriage than some other people have, in which in addition to the friendship there is a mutual, ongoing, satisfying sex life. The sexual part is what makes the marriage different than other life friendships.


friends is to be strived for.
but even if the best you can do is "mutual acquaintances" who share some interests....that is a good start. if you two do things together, then that is a reason to stay together, and a reason to work on the sex part.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> if you two do things together, then *that is a reason to stay together, and a reason to work on the sex part.
> *





It's a world easier to work on the friends part when the sex part is in order than it is the other way around.....You can have a fairly easy time convincing someone who you have great sexual chemistry to work on practically anything....Conversely, I have seen and known some couples that may have perfect marriages in the sense of everything else, but they struggle for even the basics in terms of sexual chemistry...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> It's a world easier to work on the friends part when the sex part is in order than it is the other way around.....You can have a fairly easy time convincing someone who you have great sexual chemistry to work on practically anything....Conversely, I have seen and known some couples that may have perfect marriages in the sense of everything else, but they struggle for even the basics in terms of sexual chemistry...


I agree with this. Sex is often the glue that bonds two people together. You can work on differences... working on sex is much harder.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> An old song by the Coasters comes to mind" "If you wanna be happy / For the rest of your life / Never make a pretty *woman* your wife". I always thought men who married a starlet would have nothing but problems. The woman knows she has options and the man will constantly need to run off other males. Unfortunately , physical attractiveness is major coin of the realm for both genders.


 my EXPERANCE is I MARRIED a very hot woman that had low self esteem , her mother told her that she was not good looking and too tall so she got into the habit of standing with a hump on her back not standing straight and never showed her self off , 
I often told her she was super hot , told her she was as good as many super models , she thought i was just been nice to her and thought i was just saying it to have sex , 
little by little i got her to dress up more and to experiment with different styles , at 46 I got her into photo model and her life changed her life ,


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> It's a world easier to work on the friends part when the sex part is in order than it is the other way around.....You can have a fairly easy time convincing someone who you have great sexual chemistry to work on practically anything....Conversely, I have seen and known some couples that may have perfect marriages in the sense of everything else, but they struggle for even the basics in terms of sexual chemistry...


i do not doubt you. but personally for me, it was the NON sexual parts that kept us together during the rougher patches.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

frenchpaddy said:


> my EXPERANCE is I MARRIED a very hot woman that had low self esteem , her mother told her that she was not good looking and too tall so she got into the habit of standing with a hump on her back not standing straight and never showed her self off ,
> I often told her she was super hot , told her she was as good as many super models , she thought i was just been nice to her and thought i was just saying it to have sex ,
> little by little i got her to dress up more and to experiment with different styles , at 46 I got her into photo model and her life changed her life ,


sounds a little like my situation. 
especially after she reached middle age, she simply could not believe me that i thought she was still sexy. it took years of convincing her.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> sounds a little like my situation.
> especially after she reached middle age, she simply could not believe me that i thought she was still sexy. it took years of convincing her.


MY wife had a woman that used to mind the kids she started telling my wife that she looked like a model , got my wife thinking and she asked to look up modeling at 46 , so she had the first shoot in our house with the kids home , and the guy got her to open up in a way I could never , we posted the photos on a model site and she did not believe the reaction , it was like fresh meat to a pack of wolfs


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> MY wife had a woman that used to mind the kids she started telling my wife that she looked like a model , got my wife thinking and she asked to look up modeling at 46 , so she had the first shoot in our house with the kids home , and the guy got her to open up in a way I could never , we posted the photos on a model site and she did not believe the reaction , it was like fresh meat to a pack of wolfs


You are braver than me. My wife always was and and still is a looker. She never had any insecurity, just quite shy when we met in HS. I would have never had courage to involve her with modeling or publish photos of her for other males to drool over. The thought never surfaced with either of us, too busy raising a family. Guess that is my insecurity showing.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> You are braver than me. My wife always was and and still is a looker. She never had any insecurity, just quite shy when we met in HS. I would have never had courage to involve her with modeling or publish photos of her for other males to drool over. The thought never surfaced with either of us, too busy raising a family. Guess that is my insecurity showing.


 i have never put much thought into it , maybe part of is just showing off like others like to show that they have a super car 
or it could be that I liked the fact she was seduce by the idea and the sex life got better and better , 
or just a way of having one up on the MOTHER in LAW even if she died the same time , 
because looking back my wife used to use mother as the password to photo sites in the time


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

jjj858 said:


> I also kind of feel like maybe there’s a shelf life for sexual interest in any relationship. Maybe it’s cynical, but my view is that it’s hard to stay attracted to someone after the honeymoon phase is over, the new love hormones wear off, and you start to realize all your differences. It’s just what I’ve experienced in every relationship after 2-4 years. Also factor in work, kids, lack of time, money issues, etc. and it’s safe to assume that spark isn’t coming back.


My WWII veteran granddad to my dad a few years ago: Do you think the VA covers Viagra?

Married about 70 years at the time of my grandmother's passing.



hamadryad said:


> You can have a fairly easy time convincing someone who you have great sexual chemistry to work on practically anything


 Truth.

Granted, you can probably also get someone that really cares for you as a person and enjoys being with you to work hard on the sexual side of the relationship. So hard.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Hiner112 said:


> My WWII veteran granddad to my dad a few years ago: Do you think the VA covers Viagra?
> 
> Married about 70 years at the time of my grandmother's passing.
> 
> ...


There are a lot of people that truly care a lot of a lot of other people, but wouldn't of couldn't find anything sexually attractive about them...

I think that's where a lot of people fail....Thinking that because "everything is so good". that should equate to "fckability" somehow...Just doesn't and even if the other person fakes it, its worth less than nothing as far as I am concerned, anyway...


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> i do not doubt you. but personally for me, it was the NON sexual parts that kept us together during the rougher patches.


That's great...

I have male friends that would probably eat a bullet for me....but I don't want only that type of devotion from a SO. though....


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

When my wife told me - after 30 years of marriage - that she liked my company but didn't want to have a sexual relationship with me anymore, that was the end. I'm not interested in "friendship" with my wife. Despite all our issues, I still wanted to be with her, but she couldn't get past old events and I guess she detached from me. I still believe she loves me, but not sexually. It's impossible to fix, so this is it. In a way, it was good, because I didn't have to suffer and be in hell like the OP is now. It was taken off me. Sure, it hurts being rejected, but the road to healing has started and I'm grateful for that.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Hiner112 said:


> My WWII veteran granddad to my dad a few years ago: Do you think the VA covers Viagra?


In fact, they do, if you can show a service connection that contributed to the E.D.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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