# This is so hard..



## lostsoul27 (Feb 22, 2016)

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I believe my wife has BPD (un-diagnosed) and just wanted some advice.. and just wanted to let it out. I am considering a divorce. I've been married close to 5 years now with no kids. I am 31 years old and wife is 30.

I met my wife at an interesting time in my life. I was running a company, from a great family, graduated from a top university, and had many many friends. Prior to meeting my wife, I had only seriously dated 2 other girls long term. They were both non-BPD, nice and beautiful girls. I was single for a few years before I met my wife. Being single led me to venture out more often, concentrate on my hobbies, try new things, and meet new people. I started to see who I was and everyday was fun. I had many friends and I never felt uncomfortable being me. During these high times, I met my wife through a friend. She was extremely beautiful, very well mannered, soft spoken, and nice. We went on a couple of dates and next thing you know, she is moving in. Largely my fault, I asked her to move in if she wanted. I was longing for a mental connection during my single days. Not just physical but someone I can mentally bond with. I was not being careful.

We got married way to fast. After 5 months of dating, we decided to get married. I thought she was the one. There were a few signs that I can think of now, but during the beginning, I really didn't know what BPD was or even cared for it. I was young and in love. The sex was amazing, I've never had that kind of sex before. She was my queen and I was her caregiver. We had lots of fun in the beginning, a different level than what I was first experienced. After getting married, things started getting complicated and I was definitely not ready for the emotional rollercoaster ride that followed. If I think about it now, there were so many signs. In the early stages, we coincidently ran into her exbf on the street. He tried to say hi to her but she just looked away angrily. He didn't do anything wrong. When we went home, she just bolted to bed and was angry at me. I asked her why and her reply was 'because you didn't stand up for me'. I thought to myself, 'what? It's not like he did anything to her? And whatever happened in the past is not my responsibility.' But instead, I apologized and comforted her. Other times when we got into arguments about trivial things, she would leave the house. Of course due to my caregiving attitude, I would go out and find her, comfort her, and bring her back. I thought this was love. I allowed her from the start to behave this way. 

The company I started failed around 2 years into our marriage. I had a lot of money saved up so we were okay financially. I had lost many friends during this period of time. Some close ones. Some that I still feel so bad about when I close my eyes. I gave all my attention to my wife. I stopped going out with friends. On rare occassions I would go out with friends to unwind and if I was late, my wife would lock me out of the house. I had extreme depression during this time. I didn't know it back then because, I didn't know what depression really felt like. I thought this empty sadness and dark cloud following me was due to my company failing. I blamed it on that. When somewhere, I knew that wasn't the only reason. I got a good job offer in another country. When I told my wife about this, she suddenly flipped out. Saying that she has to now leave her country and she hates me for that. She was a housewife, makes 0 income, so she had no employment or real obligations/responsibilities. Eventually, after much crying and hysteria, she subsided and agreed. 

We relocated to the US and started my job. We had more money, better home, cars, everything we needed. Much more stable than when I had my own company. My wife didn't speak fluent english so I tried my best to teach her and get her to make new friends. She first hated the US saying people are rude. I thought of it as a new opportunity and felt optimistic. She was negative and often blamed me for it. When things are going good, things also go bad. I am constantly fighting with her over trivial things. She blames me for everything. She doesn't respect me in front of strangers and/or people in general. Some thing I say triggers her and she goes into a rage. She HATES my family. She hates our dog because he is too energetic (I love my dog). During all this, I always felt maybe everything was my fault. I felt my wife stuck with me after my company failed and also gave up her life in her country to come with me (she reminds me of this fact when she gets angry). I felt that I owe her and need to make this work because she was my wife. She has done so many things that makes me question my own sanity. All this fighting has actually taken a toll on my job here in the US. Many times I had to take days off because she had a stomache or back problem.. etc. She is always getting sick somewhere. But I keep going on because I felt we could make this work through hard work. Even when she is in a good mood, any attempts to bring up something that I want to resolve triggers her. She flat out will not talk about it or acknowledge it. I know now there is no talking. No long discussions in a mature way can ever fix this. 

We had yet another argument a couple days ago. I was helping her with her english homework (she is attending english classes) and I couldn't explain it properly because well, I'm no english teacher. She then got extremely angry and blamed me for not trying hard enough to teach her. I help her almost everyday with her english because I truly wanted to. Then I noticed after awhile that she would get extremely upset if my explanations were confusing to her.. Well, this argument, along with many others before that really did it for me. I just couldn't take it anymore and left the house.

I am staying at one of my family's place and finally feel comfort. I don't know how I was so blind. I felt like the shell of a man I once was.. I'm not sure who I am any more. I've lost so much weight and daydream often about what could be. I finally feel like my eyes are open now and know what I have to do. But everytime I think about my wife, I feel so hurt because we did create a bond together. We went through so many things together.. I cried today (I usually never cry) for the first time in a long time. I cried when I thought about my wife and all the good things we did, and at the last of that memory, the words "good-bye" came up. Even though it was toxic, I've never had such a bond. Such codependency... I know this marriage is toxic and hurting us, but its so hard to say bye.. Does it get better than this?


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Yes, it gets better.

But you will have to get help to deal with your codependency.

As far as she is concerned, what you need is a divorce.


----------



## lostsoul27 (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you all for the honest responses. I will file for divorce and start getting my life back on track. I didn't know all the damage that was being done.. And finally realized about my caregiver personality. Hopefully this will make me a wiser person and not make the same choices.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

It will get better when you drum up the courage to visit an attorney. Get your ducks in a row, file for divorce, and then get yourself into counseling to process the drama and trauma of being married to a BPDer. You're going to need it...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

From what you have posted here this does not describe BPD. I have a daughter dx with BPD and it has been quite a roller coaster, your situation (at least to me) does not match. The incident where your wife ran to the bedroom feeling unsupported after seeing her ex tells me that she just needed for you to say something like, "are you okay?" Female brains think emotionally. We are not taught to be tough and push are emotions aside.

If you are not comfortable with what is going on in your marriage I suggest marriage counseling for the two of you or go your merry way and start new.


----------



## lostsoul27 (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks for your honest response.

Can you elaborate some of the traits your daughter has? Although I can not say 100%, all the signs point to BPD, I have done extensive research on the subject and my personal experiences. 

When I asked her if she was okay, she became angry at me. I just feel like any response is not a good one when she already knows the outcome.


----------



## wistful_thinking (Jan 21, 2016)

From what I am reading in your post it doesn't seem like your problems are that bad. If I were you, I would focus on working on myself and read CODEPENDENT NO MORE, his needs her needs, and the Weiner-Davis books. Also, love and respect, which is free on youtube.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

AVR1962 said:


> From what you have posted here this does not describe BPD. I have a daughter dx with BPD and it has been quite a roller coaster, your situation (at least to me) does not match. The incident where your wife ran to the bedroom feeling unsupported after seeing her ex tells me that she just needed for you to say something like, "are you okay?" Female brains think emotionally. We are not taught to be tough and push are emotions aside.
> 
> If you are not comfortable with what is going on in your marriage I suggest marriage counseling for the two of you or go your merry way and start new.


I can share with you my experience with BPD. My daughter was dx 17 years ago, she is now in her mid 30's. I think the biggest trait that stands out with BPD is that you, or whoever, is the BEST, absolutely adored....to the point of presents, daily conversations, involving you in their life, wanting your opinion, can't live without you type clinginess and then BAm, out of the blue, you are cut off and don't mean sexually. I mean this person has just cut you OUT of their life, will not have anything to do with you and not just for a day, we are talking you are the worst scum of the earth and at this point they have to go tell whoever will listen what a terrible person you have been. My experience is that this story telling stuff might have 1% truth but the rest is all false but they go to the people that like you the least and they work on the hurt and hardship you harbor for that person. They have to build their support system against you. It is really sick and very sad.

Some BPs are highly functioning and may vary a bit but the above is typical. They are insecure people and always have to have that next flame, love, infatuation lined up even before the last relationship was dead. They are many times quite promiscuous even when married.

Some are suicidal while others are not, some self medicate while others do not, some self harm while others do not. 

Many times they cannot hold a job. They are normally depressed and can seemingly look like they might be bipolar.

My daughter does not lift one finger to help her husband with the house. Cooking and cleaning, all chores belong to her kids and her husband while she sits and watches TV, texts old boyfriends. She is very heavy, does not bath regularly. I think my daughter is an extreme case. She does not honor her dx and is very blaming towards me. 

BPD comes from physical or sexual abuse. She was sexually abused as a child but she tells everyone I was abusive to her. I think you get the picture.

She left her husband to go to another state to stay with an old BF from high school. I knew what was going on and I knew that she and this old BF had been talking and texting for months. Everything was about him and she needed me to support her, she had to convince me her husband was abusive but this is what she claimed of her first husband too. After 3 weeks her husband finally called me wondering if this was more than friendship between them. Really? Are you serious? Yes, they are that manipulative! I did not tell him what I knew I know how she is and knew this could all fall in my lap in a heart beat. He cut her finances off, she went home. When she got there her kids were gone.....she had told me she was picking her kids up and leaving again. I think that broke her down but did she ever admit anything to her husband? No, instead she turned it on me. Said I made up a lie about her having an affair. Well, I never said anything to anyone but she had to be mad at me, had to blame, could not take ownership of her own actions.

Oh, but she is not BPD, let's not forget!


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I'm not sure that the push pull cycle in textbook BPD is all that's made out to be. I feel that after a certain point - the point that both sides have finally figured out the pattern and whatnot means - then it's all push and push harder with the occasional pull. 

OP also mentioned another country - could he share the country or culture? BPD and inflexible culture is truly bad news as I found out


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

lostsoul27 said:


> *Although I can not say 100%, all the signs point to BPD.*


Lostsoul, I agree that some of the behaviors you describe -- i.e., controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, verbal abuse, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.



> *I believe my wife has BPD* *(un-diagnosed)*.


BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is something that everyone has to some degree. Granted, this is not apparent in the American diagnostic manual (DSM-5) because it uses a dichotomous (yes or no) approach to diagnosing BPD -- a serious mistake that the APA has known about for three decades and intends to fix by replacing it with a graduated approach (probably in the next DSM revision). 

That revision will make clear that BPD (like the other PDs) is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of emotional control, and temper tantrums.



> *She has done so many things that makes me question my own sanity.*


If you have been living with a BPDer for five years, "insane" is exactly how you should be feeling. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths. 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning. 



> *I just want some advice.*


My advice, Lostsoul, is to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you have been dealing with. If your W does have strong BPD traits, it would be foolish to expect any therapist treating her to tell you about it -- for reasons I discuss in my post at *Loath to Diagnose*. 

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a quick look at my list of red flags at _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join *John*, *AVR*, *Technovelist*, and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Lostsoul.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Yes, it gets better.
> 
> But you will have to get help to deal with your codependency.
> 
> As far as she is concerned, what you need is a divorce.


If the wife might have a mental illness, the first attempt at solution is to see a doctor, not divorce.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> If the wife might have a mental illness, the first attempt at solution is to see a doctor, not divorce.


The OP might benefit from talking with a BPD expert, but someone exhibiting strong BPD traits won't.

Since the OP is not a psychologist, it's not his responsibility to do anything about BPD behavior.


----------



## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

She does exhibit very strong bpd traits. I disagree with her seeing the light by taking her to a mental health provider for an actual dx. Most bpders don't see anything wrong with their crazy behavior and most of your run of the mill marriage self help books will not yield any results.

Stop walking on eggshells is a good book to protect yourself and help establish FIRM boundaries to protect yourself so you don't buy into the crazy making behaviors. You will never change a bpd, the importance is to protect yourself, either by changing how you interact with crazy or part ways with her to save yourself.

You cannot change someone who sees nothing wrong with how they conduct business. I agree with Uptown that she does exhibit very moderate bpd traits.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

technovelist said:


> The OP might benefit from talking with a BPD expert, but someone exhibiting strong BPD traits won't.
> 
> Since the OP is not a psychologist, *it's not his responsibility *to do anything about BPD behavior.


Yes, it is OP's responsibility to *try* to help his wife.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Yes, it is OP's responsibility to *try* to help his wife.


*But while this caveat is so true, if the OP has exhausted himself as well as all of his resources in helping his BPD spouse, then there comes a point in time where the only sanity that he is going to save may well be his own.

In that instance, it is his own life that matters! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Lostsoul, I agree that some of the behaviors you describe -- i.e., controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, verbal abuse, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.
> 
> BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is something that everyone has to some degree. Granted, this is not apparent in the American diagnostic manual (DSM-5) because it uses a dichotomous (yes or no) approach to diagnosing BPD -- a serious mistake that the APA has known about for three decades and intends to fix by replacing it with a graduated approach (probably in the next DSM revision).
> 
> ...


Very good info here and yes, BPD has the traits of narcissism, only thing is the BP can actually show true compassion where the N cannot. The thing that bothers me here is that the wife may be reacting to the husband's uncaring, unloving approach and husband may not be aware of his own behavior. She may not know how to say how she is feeling in a calm manner , or maybe she has before and has not been heard so she escalates her approach. It is hard to say with the two being in counseling and meeting with a professional as to what is truly going on here. OP mentioned break down after seeing an ex....what we don't know is why the divorce happened, are there still emotions attached, did she want the divorce, why did it bother her to see him. Could she still be dealing with issues of grief or loss and feels unsupported by husband when she broke down in tears. If so that is pure honest emotion. Controlling actions? Sometimes there's more than one way to look at a situation and without the partner in this pic to voice her view I feel we don't have the full story.


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I was really starting to feel sorry for you, until the English homework part; then I started to feel sorry for myself. Your English is very good; much better than mine.

I am so sorry that you are going through this.

You mentioned right off the top that you think she might be borderline. I am no doctor, and even if I was, I wouldn't rush to a BPD diagnosis without much many more symptoms characteristic of the personality disorder. I also wouldn't count out the most popular non-disorder CBS (Crazy B!tch Syndrome)

Given your 'caretaker' personality, I can see how you developed, over a short period of time, some codependency to the broken woman you married. Eventually, however, over a long period of time, you come to realize that you cannot fix other people. Once you subconsciously realize that you cannot fix other people, you begin to resent the choices and efforts you made. As resentment grows your natural caretaker instincts and unnatural shame and self resentment begin to war over your ego, and that is why you are depressed.

My suggestion is to redirect your efforts to fixing yourself, patch up those lost friendships, quit caring if your wife is unhappy, that's her problem, not yours.

Most importantly, start caring about your happiness, that is your problem, not hers.

....

Develop a plan, use your business smarts, and develop a strategy that will return you and your wife to the way it was before you met her.

How to return her to her home country, and former financial stability.

What do you need to do to make sure that she is at the level of stability she enjoyed before you, or better?

Once you have a plan, study it, really give it some thought, and if you still feel like leaving your wife, at least you aren't abandoning her. Cause if she is BPD, and you try abandoning her, you better be ready for HELL.

Quit giving her what she wants, be the man, if your life is better here in the states, and you enjoy more freedom and financial security, then your lives are better, regardless of her discontent. She will have to put in the work (learning a new language) to enjoy the same liberties. Let her complain and whine about it, I hated schoolwork too, but in the end, when all the work was done, my life was 1000% more enjoyable.

Remember, most people b!tch about having to do extra work to enjoy the same liberties as others that didn't didn't have to or have already completed the work.

Continue to help with the English because you can, and be the teacher, if she pushes you away, get up and walk away from it. Eventually like any pupil, she will come back to you because you are the teacher, just because of the fact you have a better understanding than the pupil.

....

If you decide to leave her, consider the divorce process here and back home, what will work best in your favor long term. Chances are 99.9% she is going back home and your going to end up making that happen, either by choice or by force. If sending her home for a year, and staying here helps you both save money (divorce isn't cheap in the states, and she will be assigned an attorney here, so you will be paying for 2) get her settled back home and have her start the process there.

"Giggity Giggity!"


----------



## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

Marriages are hard and are never easy so don't expect it to be smooth sailing all of the time. Even the best of couples have their road humps. You did say though that you question whether or not she has BPD or not. You should try to take her to counseling, or even marriage counseling, and see if something can be resolved there. Is her behavior something you cannot live with? If you love your wife so much even though there are these issues, maybe you two need a small break to work out the issues and make the bond stronger. If you cannot live like this then you need to figure out what will make you happy, whether in the marriage or out of it. Maybe have a night for your friends or for yourself once or twice a week and then the rest with your wife? Figure out what will make you happy and see if you can include her in it. That will help answer your questions.


----------

