# Should I leave my wife if she sort of cheated?



## still existing

First the story:

Back in 10/09 my wife tells me she wants a divorce. I did the whole please don't leave I will change thing. It didn't seem to be working. So I found a website and they said forget the wife figure out how to fight for the kids. Reading this it mention that I should monitor the computer. Which I did and found out she was talking with some guy. Improper talk. She meant this guy out once with friends but nothing happen. Which I could tell from their talk. But there was talk about seeing each other again and all that stuff.

I didn't tell her I knew. I just started keep records and was trying to play nice guy so I could get a good divorce settlement $ wise and custody wise. Well after a could of weeks I realized this guy was a neighbor and had kids and I didn't feel it was fair to keep this to myself so I called his wife. 

Well once my wife found out I knew what was going on. She is crying saying she wants to work it out and all this BS. This is after I spent nights crying myself to sleep and finally accepted the fact it was over. 

(sorry so long ) 

Well I found out through all this she was also sort of seeing another guy b4 that. I found out she kissed this guy. They were texting each other like crazy and that was going on the month b4. (9/09). From everything I have gathered she didn't have sex with this guy. More of a mental thing.

So for the sake of the kids we did the whole marriage counseling. She also went to see her own counselor. We stop seeing the marriage counselor about a year after all this went down. But she still sees her counselor every other month.

She has done everything I could ask from her to try and fix this. She has not gone out one time to a bar without me or even has ever asked if she could. She went shopping a couple of times with friends but calls I guess so I know what's she is doing. I still monitor the computer and now, I check her phone records all the time and there is nothing. 

My problem is I cant get over it. I never bring it up to her but I think about it all the time. Its always in the back of my mind. I cant let go of it and I cant forgive her. I want to leave her but I have 2 young kids. (6 & 9 ) and its not fair, I would miss half of their lives growing up because of her. If I leave eventually she would be with someone else and then some other guy would be helping to raise my kids. I don't know if I could deal with that.

Plus I cant hurt my kids. If I leave my wife I would be breaking up the family. How can I do that? When she was going to leave me then there was nothing I could do about it. It was on her. She broke up the family. But when she did that 180 and begged to work it out then I would have been the one not trying. Why couldn't she have just left then? 

I'm so hurt and confused. She has no idea this stuff is even going through my head. I want to leave but I feel like I'm letting my kids down. Why cant I just forgive her?

Im looking for any in put. thanks in advance.


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## anx

> I never bring it up to her but I think about it all the time.


This. You NEED to talk to her about this. You need to deal with this other than not talking about it and being mad. Find a book on forgiving cheating. You may want to go back to MC or PC and figure out how to forgive this.



> If I leave my wife I would be breaking up the family. How can I do that? When she was going to leave me then there was nothing I could do about it. It was on her. She broke up the family. But when she did that 180 and begged to work it out then I would have been the one not trying.


Now its on you to fix. Its YOUR turn to (180?) figure out how to get unstuck and make this work.

Please do not just stay stuck in this.


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## cdbaker

Anx,

Listen, what she did was wrong, horrifically wrong. My wife has had at least FOUR affairs so believe me I can relate. (I found out about three of them all at once, so I wasn't just a "push over" letting her off easy, and the fourth is the guy she eventually left with last summer) With that said however, it sounds like she has been doing everything she possibly can to try to make things right between both of you, and has apparently done so perfectly which is incredibly impressive. Once a woman starts to travel down that path, it can be hard to truly cut ties 100% and not accidentally slip up with a text message or accepting a call here or there. Really I think it sounds like she has been truly repentant. Look up the meaning of that word, it is pretty powerful stuff.

So first off, I need to say that all of this is on YOU now. I don't mean that in a negative, accusatory way. I'm just saying that you are struggling with forgiveness, and she can't do anything about that. You owe it to your kids, and frankly I think you owe it to your wife by now, to find a way to forgive her and move on. You don't want to live in a prison forever that you have created for yourself, even if she did lay the foundation. There are lots of great books for this, or you could see a counselor yourself. The fact is that you CAN get past this, you CAN make the choice to find a way to do it and, by your own admission, wouldn't that be the best case scenario for you and your family? Your wife could feel loved and trusted again, your kids could feel secure, you could feel all of their love and know that you won't have to miss a moment of their lives, etc. Sounds like win-win-win!

Secondly, I would advise you to dig deeper into why she did what she did, though I'm guessing you have already done so. In my view, it isn't in most women's nature to just go out and commit adultery for no reason, there is usually a cause behind it. I'm a guy, I know I have screwed up BADLY and REPEATEDLY in my marriage and I'm guessing you aren't an angel either, so I would suggest making sure that you are looking back and taking a good look at your own attitudes and behaviors prior to her emotional affairs. Just make sure you are also doing what you can to be a better husband and father all the time.

I hope this was helpful. I would really hate to hear that you will actually consider divorce in this situation because of your strugles in this area. As I said before, BELIEVE ME, I can relate to the gut wrenching pain of what you went through, and it really is the worst pain I have ever gone through in my entire life, but I have come to terms with it and forgiven her for it. I really don't think about it anymore, and yet we still live apart while I struggle to try to save the marriage. So please, don't throw this away.


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## still existing

thanks cdbaker,

that was a very helpful post. I thought about seeing a counselor by myself. Maybe I should just do that. 

I look back at all that mess and it was like when she found out I knew it was like 2 days later we were seeing a MC and working on fixing our marriage. Like I never even had time to be mad. not sure if that would be any good or not.

I just dont get how she went from wanting a divorce and being so unhappy to crying and begging me not to leave her. Its just so hard for me to understand.

We have looked into why she started the affair. She said we didn't spent quality time together. Like we had our work then family time together with the kids but when they went to bed we went our separate ways. I get this and it is true. When we did stuff together as a family, I considered that spending time together. Apparently she didn't. We don't have a lot in common together as far as TV shows and stuff. So I would do my thing and she did hers. 

I didn't really like going out drinking and so I would stay home with the kids and just let her go with her friends. Yea big mistake that turned out to be. I didn't see the signs and Im not a cheater. Never even thought about it. So now I feel so dumb and like such a loser that this happen to me. I feel like she won. Like she had her fun and she still get me and the family. I wonder if I should start an affair. If that would help me get over this mess. But I dont even know how to go about such a thing. Im such a loser. 

Sorry Im rambling.


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## anx

I can't really tell from your post if you are still in MC or not. Get in MC or PC if you are not.

When people are hurting in a relationship they do stupid things and don't think strait. They justify cheating or being hurtful or whatever else. Your wife realized what she had done and did a quick 180 to try to fix her mistake.

If you can get in MC, do it and fix the issues between you two.


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## still existing

we are no longer going to MC. stopped a while back. She goes to a PC every other month.


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## AlwaysThinkingMaybe

still existing said:


> I wonder if I should start an affair. If that would help me get over this mess.


You can't put out a fire by throwing more fire on it.


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## anx

IMO, if you want to fix this, get back into MC with her and talk about it with her until you can get in.

This is too much hurt to just get over.


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## Catherine602

still existing said:


> we are no longer going to MC. stopped a while back. She goes to a PC every other month.


The problem is that you are being asked to do all of the work to heal the marriage and she has been required to do nothing but wait for you to get over it. This is not the way it should go - this will never work you will eventualy leave maybe not now but eventually. The MC is wrong - my suggestion is to read the iBook "how can I forgive you" by Janet Abrahms it is available as a free download from the iPhone app free. 

I has a difficult time forgiving my husband and this the first book that I read that really helped. The author presents the idea of atonement and that the transgressor is the one that needs to do the work not you the faithful one. The books gives guidance on how to accomplish this. You have not been given a chance to foregive you were rushed. No matter what the therapist say they are wrong if you are required to forgive when she has not traveled with you and takes the burden of your pain. She is not the focus in this you are. She made this mess not you. 

There is some good information on the Aftercare site maintained by a member of this forum it has excellent info on recovery. You wife needs to know what you are going thru is she is not willing to help you bear this pain then she is not sorry she hurt you and she may do it again. If you dont have children yet think carefully - is this a person you would fall in love with marry and spend your life with. Dont wait for children to complicate the issue decide now based on her attitude. She will treat you the way you allow her to treat you so keep that in mind. 

Please don't think that because a yr has past that you should be over this you never had a chance so for you this is day one. I hope this helps and be assured that you are the one that needs therapy and support. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdbaker

Still Existing,

After reading your post, I have to say I really, 100%, feel that you need to be getting some counseling of your own as well. Please don't take that as an insult as I don't mean it that way at all, but you express some issues that represent some very real concerns. Namely needing help getting over the emotional affair and what appear to be very clear signs of depression.

I'm sure you weren't the perfect husband, that you have some areas where you can (and should) improve. But you can't take on all of the blame either. You need to accept that you can't take responsibility for her actions and you can forgive yourself for whatever failures you've made in the past. Keep working to become the best man you can be for her. But thinking of having an affair won't help at all and will just make everything worse in the long run. I doubt she feels like she has "won" at all, she probably feels a great deal of guilt and shame for what she did. Further, since she never went all the way, she probably feels like she has been paying a massive price for what she DID do.

And that is another major reason why you need to work through this. I have no doubt that she knows full well that you have been struggling to forgive her and I am sure that weighs on her heavily too. At a certain point... and feel free to disagree with me here of course... but I think at a certain point you owe it to her to forgive her, to leave this in the past and move on. Quite frankly, not being able to let it go is holding you back from having the intimate relationship that you should have with your wife, that she deserves. If you can't move past it before too long, she will likely start to feel like she will never escape the sins of her past and things will go downhill from there.

You sound like a great dude and your wife sounds like a wonderful woman who realized her mistakes. You mentioned that you can't understand how she could go from engaging in the early steps of an affair and thinking of separation/divorce, to getting caught and suddenly wanting to make it work? I've seen this before in my wife as well. My feeling is that she knew every step of the way that what she was doing was very wrong, and when she got busted, which she surely never figured would happen, but when it did she was likely flooded with the guilt and shame of the sudden realization of what she had done. She likely realized what kind of trouble she could be in, realized what all she had risked, what all she could lose, etc. Twice my wife had a similar sudden turn-around when she was caught. From texting/calling/****ing another guy to begging my forgiveness on her knees and begging me to not kick her out and then hours later planning a recommitment ceremony and wanting to get pregnant again. (of course, I never thought for a moment of kicking her out) My situation didn't work out so well as she eventually cheated and left again, but your wife has been fully committed from what it sounds like. Honestly, don't question why she turned it around. I don't think it is uncommon at all, and you should be happy beyond reason that it has worked out the way it has. She'll likely be that much more loyal now because of this experience, but again, only if you can move past this and help her rebuild your marriage.


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## still existing

thanks everyone for the advice. It does really help.

I do think that she is really remorseful for the actions she did. Or at least she is acting like she is because she was scared I was going to leave. 

I do know if we didn't have kids I would have left. That's why Im having such a hard time dealing with it. Because I feel what she did was unforgivable. I cant let it go. But I love my kids more then anything and I don't want them growing up in a split family. Nor do I want some other guy helping to raise my kids and I don't want to see only half of their childhood. So I stay. 

But the truth is I feel like Im acting. Don't get me wrong. I loved my wife and I still do. We been through so much together. Good & bad. But when I go home from work, while she is being nice. I put on a fake smile. I act like everything is ok. We never bring up any of this. Its been months since the topic ever came up. Like it never even happen. 

Its hard. Im reminded about it all the time. On TV shows, movies ....heck I cant even watch certain movies now because of this. Normally I would rush out to see a movie like " The Dilemma" Now I couldn't bare to watch it.

On the holidays like Mothers Day or Valentines Day, I would always get her these meaningful cards about how great a wife and mother she is. How can I now? Most of them talk about being faithful and always being by my side. None of them fit my marriage anymore. And she has noticed. She even asked where her card was. Well I cant really buy one now, can I? So I didn't. I just made up some BS excuse why I didn't get a card. But simple this like this are now hard to cope with.

Life is hard now. I feel like I have been cheated in life. Most people go about their marriage as normal loving couples. I have this huge burden I carry. When friends ask us to go out as couples I don't even want to go. Because I just sit there and act like a happy couple. I grow tired of acting.


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## cdbaker

Listen, from everything you are saying it sounds clear that you have already given up on your marriage. Seriously, everything said screams that YOU are now guiding your marriage and your family to divorce. I hate to sound harsh, but it sounds like your wife has done what she can to save the marriage but you can't do the same. Simply getting by or putting on a fake smile isn't helping anyone. Your wife clearly loves you, you love her, you love your children, so freaking man up and do what you have to do for your children.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be mean, but you really need to do something about this because every day you wait you are doing a disservice to the people you claim to love so fervently. Yes, YOU are hurting them now. You did get screwed over but it could have been SO much worse I assure you. Let me tell you a little story...

My wife started her first affair back in the early spring of 2009 with an old high school dropout friend of hers who worked at a garage door factory since graduating. That didn't last long before she moved on to a 55 year old married man (she was 24 at that time) who lived about 30 minutes away. They didn't have an "affair" exactly in that it wasn't emotional at all, just sex, phone sex, internet sex, etc. The third was a full blown, she had every intention of leaving me and taking our daughter with her, affair. That was with a 37 year old married cable-TV installer with three young kids. He was mostly leading her on however and never did leave his wife, leaving my wife an emotional wreck who waited a few weeks after I caught her to come back to me. (I found out about all of the affairs at the same time) Not more than a month later (June 2010) she got a new job and almost immediately began another genuine affair with a 51 year old alcoholic/drug addict, three-times divorced, not a penny to his name, and abusive man. She moved out with him about a month later in July and left my daughter and I, took all of her income with her after I had been supporting her going to school without working for over a year, and left me with all of our combined expenses including her car payment, car insurance, health insurance and cell phone bills. I am not wealthy by any stretch, so her leaving, combined with my company cutting my salary by 50% just one month earlier, left me about $1,300 per MONTH under water that I had to figure out how to trim from the budget. Even today I am still operating about $300 under water every month while I struggle to essentially be a single dad who can't afford to eat lunch during the work day. I have had a LOT to forgive her for but I worked through it. I accepted that I shared a large degree of the responsibility for the breakdown of our marriage and have truly forgiven her. She and I are still separated, she claims she isn't in a relationship with the man any more but still lives in an apartment full of his stuff and he sleeps over frequently. I'm still trying to save the marriage and indeed I have a great deal of hope for it.

I don't say all of that to guilt you. But adultery is commonplace these days. Studies now show that most married adults are more likely than not to commit adultery at some point in their life. I don't necessarily want to undercut what actually happened, but do remember that she didn't actually commit adultery either. An emotional affair is a serious issues, no doubt, and while she did cross some lines that shouldn't have been crossed, she also stopped short of crossing the really major lines when she likely could have VERY easily done so.

You aren't a loser either. You didn't dump your wife to the curb when she did what she did, you didn't doom your children to a life with a divorced Mommy and Daddy, you soldiered on and have weathered the worst of the storm. A lot of people would have given up, and make no mistake, this happens to a LOT of people so don't think that you have been cheated out of the heavenly marriage that "everyone else gets to experience" because I promise you that what you have gone through is not uncommon but it DOES demand that you be strong and push through it. Trust me, this process is sooo much harder when you have to try to be strong enough to get through it all when your partner is doing everything they can to destroy your family, so having your wife working hard to save your family is truly a blessing. I hope you can see that.

At this point, she deserves your forgiveness, your children deserve it as well. If you don't offer it soon, then she'll start to wonder what she has put all of this effort in for. She screwed up, she is human and she has tried to make it right which is all you or anyone else could ask of her. If she can't screw up, do everything she can to make it right, and receive your forgiveness, then what is she waiting for? What are you waiting for? I don't mean to minimize the pain here because you know I know what it is like, but you simply have to get through this. Don't worry about why she has wanted to make it work. Take a leap of faith and trust her again. Seek the help you need to make it happen.  Ask her for her help in rebuilding the trust, be honest to her about your feelings but also make sure she knows you are committed. Tell her you appreciate everything she has done to make it right because you damn well should appreciate it and don't ever hold her past mistakes over her head. (Not saying you do) You've already been through hell and back, now it is time for your finest hour.


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## anx

> Most people go about their marriage as normal loving couples.


I don't agree. Marriage is hard work.



> Because I just sit there and act like a happy couple. I grow tired of acting.


You 100% NEED to do something to change this. Do not wake up a year from now in the same position. Everything will be VERY BAD at that point.

You didn't say what you planned on doing from your reply.
At least pick up a book about this ASAP (today or RIGHT NOW). I would suggest MC too, but at least start with a book.


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## still existing

I dont think I want to do MC anymore. The one I went to made it sound like it was some amazing thing that she cheated and wanted to leave me and now she realized the grass isnt greener and she wants to be in the marriage. Like she did nothing wrong. It was ok to test the waters and now she knows for sure.

Sorry. My beliefs are really strong when it comes to marriage. All the problems my wife had with me could have been worked out in MC. She could have sat me down and said that Im having such and such issue. And those issues werent major. I mean major, like I never abused her or drugs or anything. Stuff you can work on. But instead of coming to me she went outside the marriage. Telling these guys how unhappy she was and how she wanted out. Those are things you cant work on. Going to other guys is too far for me to deal with. I will consider going to a PC but MC is too hard. Just have to keep bringing up the bad stuff.

cdbaker

I feel for you after reading your story. thank you for the advice. I dont know how you can still try to work things out with your ex. Your a better man then me. Maybe I have too much pride in a bad way, that I cant let it go. 

As far as a plan right now... this might sound awful but as of now my plan is to act for the next 12 years until my youngest son is 18. Then I will end my acting and my marriage.


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## anx

> As far as a plan right now... this might sound awful but as of now my plan is to act for the next 12 years until my youngest son is 18. Then I will end my acting and my marriage.


 Please don't just let this fester for a year. I can not even tell you how bad of an idea this is.

MC is very hard, but 100% worth it. if you are not willing or able to do MC right now, get in PC and start figuring this out.

What your W did was wrong, but you acting like everything is ok is also 100% wrong.

She isn't acting like nothing is wrong. I think she realizes what she did was very wrong and tried to fix it.

Maybe your MC wasn't good or a good fit. 



> She could have sat me down and said that Im having such and such issue.


 Your current situation is fixable. Its now your turn to realize and change something instead of waiting until something bad happens.

Also, in MC you NEED to speak up for yourself to make it work. the counselor isn't a mind reader and can't pull the issues out from your head.


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## cdbaker

Here are a few more thoughts...

First, I mostly agree with your MC. It IS a fantastic thing that your wife crossed those lines but made the decision to do the right thing and return to her family. She probably DID realize that the grass isn't greener, that it is a false image on that side. This is far from ideal, but it is a good thing that she did the right thing.

Second, I don't know you or your wife or your situation exactly, but I'll bet you money that she did try to reach out to you long before she reached out to other men. I'm a guy and I know full well that I am an idiot when it comes to women. I hear them but struggle to truly listen at times, or I forget quickly or misunderstand, etc. If you read these forums long enough you'll see a pattern of men posting very familiar stories...

"I thought everything was going pretty well. I'm not the best husband but I'm not the worst either. I take care of her, make good money, make sure she has what she needs, I have never cheated or abused her, I'm not an alcoholic, I don't do drugs and I am not financially irresponsible. I've known things between us have been in a bit of a lull for a while but she surprised me last night by telling me she is unhappy and wants to separate for a while! Where did that come from? Couldn't she have tried talking to me first?"

Then from women you hear...

"I don't know what else to do now other than to give up. I haven't been happy for years. I try talking to him and he never listens or he changes for a few days/weeks and then it is the same old thing. There are times when I feel like I love him but most of the time I can't stand him any more, but I've been doing my best to make it work for the sake of my kids. I don't want my marriage to end but I have to do something and I have given up on the possibility that he'll ever listen or really change and have finally decided that I need to find a way to end this as simply as possible."

And with women, it is often the case that they have already found or are interested in another guy by the time she gets to that point. Women just seem relationship issues way before us men do, those issues tend to be far more complicated and intricate for them too. For us men, it often just appears to be a sex problem, a bi-product of the real issues, haha. (Sorry that is kind of funny) So I ask you now to think back and question whether she may have actually been trying to reach out to you but it may have come across as nagging, or not a big deal, etc. I bet you she did try, it is in their nature to try repeatedly to get through to us, but we often don't realize it until she has long since given up, hence those two example stories above.

So yes, what she did was really wrong, and you can condemn her for that all day long, but it won't make any of you happier. She can't take it back, though she would if she could I'm sure. All that is left is for you to decide whether or not you can be happy going forward. If you really go forward with your plan to just try to fake it, then you are doing you and your family a disservice because we cannot fake human emotional that strong and for that long. It will be evident and there will be major emotional and developmental problems in the future. Please reconsider. If you don't like your current MC, that is TOTALLY understandable. We have gone through three of them ourselves. Not everyone clicks with everyone. You'd be best off in MC with your wife but honestly you should also be in PC, as in doing both. There is nothing wrong with you here, everyone struggles with this sort of thing in a different way but again, you owe it to yourself and your family.


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## Atholk

still existing said:


> As far as a plan right now... this might sound awful but as of now my plan is to act for the next 12 years until my youngest son is 18. Then I will end my acting and my marriage.


So let me get this straight...

You ignored paying active attention to playing with your wife. She had a couple of "almost something might have happened maybe" events. She got caught. She made a perfect turnaround and has changed her behavior to what you wanted her to do. And now you are packing a sad and plan to be a depressed ******* for 12 more years and then blow her head off with a divorce because she kissed a guy.

She won't last another 12 years with you like that. You'll be divorced in a year with this passive aggressive approach. 

The truth is she wanted to be playing with you all along, but you sat on the couch. Angry couch sitting isn't going to work out any better.

Rethink things please.


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## still existing

everything you both say makes some sense. I admit. 

But even if she gave me hints that she wasnt happy. Or "she wanted to be playing with you all along". She has even said as much in MC. All the things you both mention. She said pretty much all that in her defense. 

But there is a right and wrong way to handle it. She never said lets take a drive without the kids and explain her issues directly. Or said I believe we have some problems. Im not happy lets go to MC.

No she went outside the marriage. Thats the problem. I know Im not perfect and the issues she has had problems with I been working on. But those were small little things that add up to a lot ( per MC ) things that you can work on together. Going outside the marriage you cant work on. Because you cant fix it. 

I cant fix that fact that she was texting guys over 800 times a month sitting right beside me. Or talking with them on facebook while I was sitting in the same room. Like nothing was going on. Or making up a excuse to run to the grocery store to see him then tell me how she ran into this or that person and why it took so long. Its all lies. To my face without any guilt. No care for me or my kids as far as Im concern. 

So if you ask how I can act and lie to her and act happy.... its easy. Look what she did to me. I believe I can play this off for my kids sake. I dont want to not be with my kids everyday because of what she did. Thats not fair to them or to me. 

Yea I still love her but its like I didnt even know who she really was. So who did I really love? The person I thought she really was or the person she really turned out to be?


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## anx

A lot on these forums people are hurt, not thinking strait, and are doing the best they know how.

Again, please get at minimum a book and PC. I do really suggest MC and making your marriage work. PLEASE.



> I cant fix that fact that she was texting guys over 800 times a month sitting right beside me. Or talking with them on facebook while I was sitting in the same room. Like nothing was going on.


 You probably sat in the same room as her this week and thought to yourself that I'm going to leave my W in a year. Faked like you were happy like she faked it then. "like nothing was going on".

I think you both have the same communication issue. You aren't willing to talk to her now like you wanted her to talk to you then.

YOU ARE 100% DOING THE SAME AVOID AND LET FESTER THAT YOUR WIFE DID. Yes, it was wrong that she did it years ago, but its no better that you are doing it now. Its probably a common theme in your marriage and caused issues from the start.

Most people cheat because they are hurt. I think you wife did the same. She should have come to you then, but I suspect that you both avoided issues up until then. She just snapped first.

Marriage and communication is a 2 person tango. You both messed up previous to her cheating. You both are continuing to mess up. This should have been talked about A TON in counseling, and if it wasn't, the MC wasn't any good.

If you are looking for validation that what you are currently doing is OK, you won't find it here. Change is hard. Many of here here went through VERY hard MC and came out better men and women because of it. I will always carry the scars of my anxiety and PC and the first years of my marriage and MC, but I am I stronger and better person because of it. I am much happier now in my marriage than I knew I could even be.

If you are looking for advice, we have all given you the same advise. Get PC and/or MC and do not continue with what you are doing.

The way you and your wife deal with issues (passive agressively and avoiding the issue) is what got you into this mess. It will not get you out of it.

IMO, go to your wife today and say that you need MC, which is exactly you faulted her for not doing in the past. If you follow through with your plan of D her after a year of avoiding the issue, you will be no better than her or behavior you are so hurt about right now. I would in fact say that doing nothing now would be worse that what your wife did. She realized what she did was wrong(after the fact). You have people telling you what you are doing is wrong and a better way.


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## SadSamIAm

You only live once. 

It isn't fair to you or your wife to carry on like this for the next 12 years. It is a waste of your life (and hers). And there is no way this can't affect your children.

In your current state of mind, it sounds like there is no chance of you being able to forgive her. You either need to do some reading and/or get therapy to try to get over this (forgive and live a happy life), or you need to leave your marriage. 

Nobody forgets these things. They will always be in the back of your mind. But you need to forgive her for doing it and move on.

One day you will be 60 years old thinking about how you wasted your life.


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## cdbaker

Here is something I think you should understand...

We all interpret communication differently. We all hear things differently than the way the person is trying to say them. To further complicate matters, Men and Women tend to handle situations differently. Men like to be direct. We don't like to talk nearly as much as women do, so we have found ways to be clear about how we speak, especially to other men. Women like to talk, and they are not nearly as capable of speaking directly as we men are, from everything I have read anyway. Alternatively, I think women also like to approach touchy situations in round-about ways so as to avoid confrontation. Dropping hints, shutting others out, gifts, talking to others, etc. That presents two issues. One, we often expect our spouse to communicate with us directly, which is not in their nature to do. Two, when our spouse doesn't communicate with us the way we expect her to, we interpret that as her not making an effort at all.

See, your wife spelled out in MC that she DID try to talk to you, she did try to make the problems clear to you, she did try to get you to realize and understand her pain, she never wanted to walk away from the marriage or anything of that nature but after such a long time of you not getting it, she was at the end of her rope!

Then you say things like, "She never said lets take a drive without the kids and explain her issues directly. Or said I believe we have some problems." Can you see how it is your EXPECTATION that is the problem here and not necessarily your wife? Faulty expectations can ruin great marriages. You can expect your wife to talk to you the way you think she should talk to you all day long but it won't change who she is. It sucks, believe me I know, it really does, but we love our wives and it is something we have to figure out.

Again, what she did was wrong, but think about it. Put yourself in her shoes for a moment, I had to do the exact same thing because honestly, your story is very similar to mine up until the moment that your wife ultimately did not engage in the affair when mine did, repeatedly. When I finally figured all of this out and stopped to think about it, to put myself in her shoes, I got it. Imagine she has been hurting, feeling unloved, unrespected, uncared for. Perhaps ignored, dismissed, etc. Of course we aren't women so we can't relate to their specific love needs which I believe are likely stronger than our own, but still, imagine it. Then imagine that she wants to be a good spouse, she loves you and doesn't want to see the family fall apart, so she starts trying to fix it in every way she knows how. Maybe she made extra efforts to meet your needs for a while hoping you would return the effort. Maybe she dropped hints, maybe she asked you about specific things that were wrong or asked you to do specific things. Maybe she mopped around the house at times hoping you'd notice. Maybe she pulled off every passive-aggressive tactic in the book, I don't know. To HER, she was making her message very loud and clear. She had to have figured that you were either a blind fool, or that you actually didn't care, that maybe you didn't love her, that maybe you weren't the man she thought you were and that things really had changed.

Imagine that goes on for years, she tries everything she knows how, but eventually she either gives up or at the very least, she is certainly susceptible to foreign invaders. She felt drained, unloved, perhaps unattractive, unworthy, etc. Then imagine that another guy starts showing her some attention. That is what women want after all, the attention of a man, feeling confident that she is loved, desirable, most important to him, etc. In her state however, she was extremely vulnerable to anyone who might offer her a little bit of attention. Someone in that state will latch on to that as if it were a water bottle in the desert sun. It offered moments in time where she could escape her woes, feel loved, attractive, worthy, etc. Again, it literally is like she went for years without a drop of water and suddenly someone thrusts an ice cold water bottle in front of her.

AGAIN, what she did was wrong. And truth be told, she probably should have eventually found ways to be more direct about how badly the relationship issues had gotten well before she allowed herself to succumb to the feelings she did. You BOTH screwed up here, no doubt about it, but don't judge her too harshly here. You admit you weren't great at listening to her, attending to her needs. You have to understand that she tried, she tried for a long time, and she too did not understand that she really wasn't speaking your language here. She expected you to understand her language and you expected her to speak in yours. Again, "expectation" is the key word here.

So seriously, find a way to GET OVER IT or just call it quits right now because that would be a greater act of love for your children than putting them through a childhood with a father who is merely pretending everything is ok. This isn't all your fault but you do need to accept a healthy degree of responsibility here because she likely never would have done what she did had you been doing your job. 

Also, don't say that she didn't have any guilt. I bet she was and is absolutely loaded with guilt, guilt that she is probably still carrying because you won't let her release it. When she was doing what she was doing, the guilt was likely just overcome by the moments of relief that her wrong actions were offering her. She was miserable. She could have cheated on you to find relief or left you, she didn't see any other options. Her LOYALTY to you kept her from leaving you, but she fooled herself into rationalizing her behavior as not being wrong. Don't we all do that? Sometimes the lines are a more gray than they are black & white. I'm sure she felt like she was being careful not to go too far, but in her weakness allowed it to go further than it ever should have. Wrong yes, but do you condemn her for it? You really don't have that right.

Seriously, get over yourself. You didn't properly love and honor your wife, leaving her vulnerable to other men and you condemn her for that vulnerability. She tried her best to make you understand before it reached that point and you condemn her for not doing it in a way that YOU expect it to be done. She nearly gave in to that vulnerability but luckily for you, stopped it before crossing the ultimate line and you condemn her for that as well. She goes to MC, PC, spends over a year trying everything she can to make it up to you, to save your family, and it all appears to mean nothing to you because you can't get past her momentary lapse in judgement that YOU contributed to. 

Get. Over. Yourself. You are fooling yourself if you think your family can live this way much longer. Your wife will eventually realize that all of her efforts are worthless. You can look forward to seeing your kids half as much as you do now, AT BEST. Imagine all the memories you have of your children in the past year, memories you wouldn't sell for a million dollars, but you'll readily and knowingly surrender half (or more) of your future memories with them because what? Because you can't freaking do what you have to do to forgive your repentant wife??? Is your anger, your hurt, your grief more important than your children? If it is, then understand that they will figure that out eventually, and you'll have to face that alone.


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## zsu234

The reason why you are still tortured about this is because your gut is screaming that there is more i.e. a PA. Strap her happy ass to a polygraph ASAP.


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## Atholk

still existing said:


> I cant fix that fact that she was texting guys over 800 times a month sitting right beside me. Or talking with them on facebook while I was sitting in the same room. Like nothing was going on. Or making up a excuse to run to the grocery store to see him then tell me how she ran into this or that person and why it took so long. Its all lies. To my face without any guilt. No care for me or my kids as far as Im concern.


She has zero respect for you. Why did you do nothing as she did all this right next to you???


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## still existing

thanks cdbaker. That really makes me think.


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## still existing

Atholk said:


> She has zero respect for you. Why did you do nothing as she did all this right next to you???



How would I know who she is texting. We both text a lot on our phones. She has lots of friends. I trusted her. When she was on Facebook she played those dumb games all the time. Was I supposed to watch her when she was on the computer?


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## still existing

zsu234 said:


> The reason why you are still tortured about this is because your gut is screaming that there is more i.e. a PA. Strap her happy ass to a polygraph ASAP.



This is true and if I could I would have her take a polygraph. I wish I could have her take one. In the back of my mind I wonder if there is more to the story. She never came clean. I found out everything on my own.

Once I found out about the one guy I asked her to come clean. A week later I found out about the other guy.

I do know the one guy it didnt get to far because I read their conversations on the computer. Almost like I caught it b4 it went too far though. It sounded like it was headed that way.

The first guy is the one Im not sure about. That went on for like 2 months. Texting and stuff. She swears they didnt have sex. Just kissed but her word is meaningless when it comes to be truthful about this.

I did call the guy weeks later. Too make a long story short I lied to him and told him my wife said she messed up once and they had sex one time and I was trying to find out if it was more then once. He freaked when I said that and swore they never had sex. He said maybe I missed understood her and she said fooled around once. Thats when I found out they kissed. I really pressured him. Saying why would she tell me they had sex once if they didnt. He even said. Look Im single. I have no reason to lie. So thats all I have to go on. As much as it hurt he seemed like he was telling the truth. 

So show me where I can have her take a polygraph and she would be hooked up.


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## Runs like Dog

What would you consider satisfactory proof of whatever it is you want proved? Maybe you'll find out 99% of what you thought was true was not. Then what? Still going to obsess?


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## cdbaker

Listen, you'll never get proof. You really won't. A lie detector isn't fool proof and at this point you would be doing WAY more harm than good. Say she takes it and passes, then you'll either feel like an ass or you STILL might find yourself not believing her. And how will she feel? That much more hurt and guilt-laden that her husband still hasn't forgiven her, still can't trust her and still condemns her. Plus, how long before you want her to take another test if you can't trust her now? Seriously, lie detector tests are one of the LAST things that belong in a marital relationship.

Some controls are understandable. For instance, if her cell phone was one of the primary tools of her deceptions (extremely common) then you should both have come to an understanding that while you are working to build trust, it would be helpful if you could regularly ask to see her phone and possibly check detailed billing statements from time to time, with her permission. Or perhaps you should have the right to ask where she is or was at certain times and expect an honest answer. You don't want to make her feel like a prisoner and you don't want her to constantly feel guilty forever, but some degree of give and take should happen here. Another key is for there to be a time limit on this arrangement so that she knows it wouldn't last forever, that the goal IS to fully rebuild the trust to a pre-affair state. Perhaps 12 months is fair, at which point you could sit down and discuss if there have been any cause for distrust during that time that would be just cause for requesting that more time be allowed, etc. They key here is communication and sharing with her that your only goal is to trust her again and not to punish her or hurt her. This process really should only be started in marital therapy however, if you ask me.

In marital therapy, one of the first steps to healing from any kind of affair (whether it went all the way or not) is for the offending partner to fully come clean. That means simply stating what happened while being careful to NOT go into the lurid details that you do not want to be saddled with. Believe me, you don't want to know the details but it is important that you know what happened in a general sense and it sounds like she has been honest about that.

(When I say details, I mean like sexual positions, did she let him cum in her mouth, did they do it outside or meet in a public park, was he "bigger" than you, etc. etc. etc. I learned a lot of this the hard way and TRUST ME, that stuff will haunt you forever. You do not want to know.)

From there, you begin to work through the issues that led to the affair and come up with healthy communication strategies to begin the healing process. (Part of which I detailed above) Forgiveness is also KEY. You need to offer her your forgiveness if you haven't already. Forgiving her does not mean you have forgotten what she did or that you instantly trust her again, but it means that you have canceled the emotional-debt that she has created for you, that she may feel released from that guilt and can instead focus only on rebuilding the relationship.


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## still existing

Cdbaker I appreciate your response but I only need to know one general detail. If she had sex with anyone other then me since we been married. That's it. I don't care if it was once or 100 times. If she had sex the marriage is over. There will be no forgiving nothing. Sorry, but I would draw the line there. I actually should be drawing the line on the texting and phone calls. The meeting them and kissing him and lying to me and all that stuff. If it wasn't for my 2 kids I would have already ended it. I wish I could end it now. I want to end it. I want to tell her to go F herself. Have a nice life. Go get a real job the fun is over! That's what I want to do. 

I love her but I will never feel the way I used to. She cheated on me and my kids. I really don't think I can ever forgive her. So when you say take the burden off her and the guilt away for what she did???? Im thinking I could careless if she feels guilty. She should feel guilty. The burden Im carrying isnt going away. 

She already won. She got to play her, Im so unhappy, Im leaving him, Im getting a divorce, so its ok Im doing this stuff behind his back. She was going to play that as long as she could. Then when she got caught and divorce was looking her right in the face. Its was a complete turn around. Please don't divorce me. Lets work this out. Please. She only cares now because she was jobless as far as income). God awful credit. No family around. No where to live since the house was in my name. Yea she gets half of the value of everything but whats that? She walks with what 40 grand? She gets no spousal support because we live in a fault State. I have all the evidence she cause the divorce because of cheating. She probably wouldn't even win custody of the kids because, well I had that pretty planned out also. So she is looking at 40 grand and no where to go. Probably cant get a lease to rent cuz of bad credit. So she plays the only card she has. Act sorry and act like she truly loves me. But you don't do that stuff to people you love. 

People who are truly sorry and truly want forgiveness come clean. When she found out I knew about the one guy; she had a chance to just come clean. Put all the cards on the table and try and rebuild the relationship. We sat down at the table and I asked her this. Even said as much. But nope. It took about 2 or 3 more weeks to I found out everything. Piecing it together. Found out about the other guy. But that was just texting. Nothing happen. Then when I called him found out they kissed. Just crap like that. She only admits after I know. She never told me anything I didn't know. God I hate her. Writing this just brings it all back............


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## anx

> But you don't do that stuff to people you love.


1) Most cheating happens after the marriage has been rough for awhile. You also don't continue treating people poorly for a long time
2) You don't string your wife along and say you forgive her and let her back into your life and fake that everything is ok.

You really don't see your side of this at all from what I read. you are mad and put everything on her. Things were bad and are bad now because of her.

Realize how you are treating her like sh*t right now and plan on leaving her to herself homeless and poor soon.

Again, get PC and MC. Every single reply has said this. Every single time you come back with how its her fault and how mad you are at her.

*I'm really confused what you are looking for by posting. *You asked for suggestions. Everyone gave you the same suggestion (PC, MC, and probably make it work). You've told us that you can't do that. We are all telling you that you can and it can be better than it ever has been. If you want to be told that you are right, you won't find it here. It sounds to me like you both really messed up. You didn't say much about how you messed up, but from bits and pieces it sounds like weren't great towards her and had horrible communication before the cheating. She justified her cheating based on that. You are justifying your current actions based on her cheating.

It seems like you are so hurt, you aren't able to listen to anyone else. You are stuck.

We understand you are VERY hurt and you should be. What you currently are doing is also VERY wrong. Stop faking towards your wife. Realize your issues and parts in this. Get unstuck.

http://www.strongmarriagenow.com/blog/secondfreevideo/


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## Asking4Flowers

still existing said:


> Maybe I have too much pride in a bad way, that I cant let it go.


That is exactly what I was going to say. Too much pride can be crippling. Being able to forgive is a powerful thing for your spirit. You need to learn to forgive for yourself, not just your family. What a terrible burden to carry around and it is something you can CHOOSE to let go. You have been strong enough to stick it out so far but now it is time be find even more strength and choose to live again.


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## bluesky

You must be joking......faking it for 12 years!

Seriously.....how in God's name can that work?

What if you do that....and she later has a long term affair due to her feeling unwanted (with sex).....how will you handle that?

I PROMISE you......PROOF of a sexual affair is 1000X worse than SUSPECTING they had sex.

Take what you got my man.....you are one of the lucky ones whether you realize it or not.


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