# When one partner declares no longer wants sex with the other?



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There are many threads here and on other boards about sexless marriages. But without naming names, there is only one thread I am aware of where the denying spouse has declared openly that they no longer want any sex at all with their spouse.

It seems in the vast majority of cases, the denier at least implies that they would be agreeable to sex if they happen to find themselves in the mood or if the stars are all aligned perfectly or if the denied party were to jump through all 10,000 hoops and hurdles rub their bellies and pat their heads while blowing bubbles and singing the national anthem at the same time. 

So that got me wondering, do people intentionally imply that they "might" resume a sex life in the future and essentially dupe the denied party?

Or do they really think that their libido and desire for the other spouse may miraculously return some day?

Also, is it a game-changer if the denying spouse comes right out and declares the sexuality component of the marriage is officially over? 

Do you see that as grounds for immediate divorce?

Do you see that as grounds to seek satisfaction elsewhere - whether with or without the denying party's consent? 

What do you realistically see yourself doing if you partner told you to your face they no longer wanted to have sex with you but wanted to remain married?

What are your thoughts when one unilaterally declares the marital sex life over?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

"Let me know where you would like to be served divorce papers, and start thinking about what you feel to be a fair and equitable division of assets."

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Dang autocorrect!!! Is there any way I can edit the thread title????


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And another question to pose is - at what point should the rejected party realize that they are being duped?

A month? 3 months? 6 months? A year?

At what point should someone wake up and realize that Lucy is just going to pull the football out from under Charlie Brown no matter how much she promises that the next time she will follow-through?

Maybe that's for another thread to discuss but when we see these people that have gone 6 months and a year and even multiple years of constant rejection, at what point should they realize this is not a temporary or situational thing but rather how it really is?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Hint: it doesn't happen instantaneously... It sort of withers away over time.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> There are many threads here and on other boards about sexless marriages. But without naming names, there is only one thread I am aware of where the denying spouse has declared openly that they no longer want any sex at all with their spouse.
> 
> It seems in the vast majority of cases, the denier at least implies that they would be agreeable to sex if they happen to find themselves in the mood or if the stars are all aligned perfectly or if the denied party were to jump through all 10,000 hoops and hurdles rub their bellies and pat their heads while blowing bubbles and singing the national anthem at the same time.
> 
> ...






> So that got me wondering, do people intentionally imply that they "might" resume a sex life in the future and essentially dupe the denied party?


Essentially, yes. It's selfish. They want sex, just not with you, unless there is desperation.





> Or do they really think that their libido and desire for the other spouse may miraculously return some day?


Nah, just need a dopamine boost, so they don't want to kill themselves. I don't think they know that, but they know they need some companionship and sex to feel wanted and needed. 





> Also, is it a game-changer if the denying spouse comes right out and declares the sexuality component of the marriage is officially over?


Yes, but not the way I imagine most men and women think. 





> Do you see that as grounds for immediate divorce?


Yes, absolutely and immediately. 





> Do you see that as grounds to seek satisfaction elsewhere - whether with or without the denying party's consent?


After the above divorce, yes for sure. 




> What do you realistically see yourself doing if you partner told you to your face they no longer wanted to have sex with you but wanted to remain married?


File for divorce after feeling relieved by the revelation. Sleep well on another bed or sofa. 




> What are your thoughts when one unilaterally declares the marital sex life over?


See above answers.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

john117 said:


> Hint: it doesn't happen instantaneously... It sort of withers away over time.


Exactly right.

So at what point should someone wake up and realize that ship has sailed despite what they might be told?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Unless there is some sort of health condition, I think it's grounds for divorce in my mind.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

I often thought it was a betrayal of the 'to have and to hold' part of the marriage vows.

This is going to sound harsh, but my take would be put out or get out.

If someone is going to enjoy the benefits that go with marriage but not the responsibilities, then they do not deserve to have someone dedicating their lives to them.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Unless there is some sort of health condition, I think it's grounds for divorce in my mind.


Absolutely, I’ll just add that menopause is not a health condition, it’s a part of life.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> What are your thoughts when one unilaterally declares the marital sex life over?


In my honest opinion there are some people that just always have zero libido, and at some point in the marriage they are just open and honest about it. In many situations this is falsely understood that marital sex has ended. *This is because most HD people are insecure are perhaps incapable of accepting and loving a partner that demonstrates an absence of any sexual desire what so ever. *

You just have to stand back and ask yourself who is rejecting who?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Dang autocorrect!!! Is there any way I can edit the thread title????


what do you want the title to be? I can change it. Just be sure to user the mention, @oldshirt, tool so I can find your reply easiy.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> And another question to pose is - at what point should the rejected party realize that they are being duped?
> 
> A month? 3 months? 6 months? A year?
> 
> ...


A few years ago a colleague who was normally very reserved and kept himself to himself asked me would I answer a personal question.I said maybe and asked him what he wanted to know.He was engaged and living with his girlfriend in his own house, I was single at the time and we both were working for the same company.
He asked me when was the last time I had sex!
I looked at my watch (I had sex that morning) and he then said hurriedly “It’s ok,don’t bother answering”.
I asked him wtf he was on about and he said the fact that I only had to look at my watch told him all he needed to know.He said he would have needed a calendar going back months to answer the same question.
I was incredulous and asked him what was the point of being engaged and living with his fiancée if they weren’t going at it like rabbits.
He told me that for his fiancée to have sex with him he had to do something for her that she thought deserved a reward!
This usually entailed painting or decorating or gardening and even then he had to bring her out to dinner that night and treat her like a princess.Because we had been working long hours he hadn’t had time for any extra curricular activities in the diy front so he hadn’t had sex in months.
I told him in my usual diplomatic fashion that what she needed was a good seeing to and if she didn’t like it she could **** off back to her Mommy’s house.
Well that night apparently he told her she needed a good ****ing and if she didn’t like it then she could **** off.She said to him he had never spoken to her like that before and who had put him up to it.
The bastard told her it was me!
And he married her!
And I wasn’t invited!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CharlieParker said:


> Absolutely, I’ll just add that menopause is not a health condition, it’s a part of life.


Agreed. 

I do think the first thing to check though is yourself. 

How have you treated your spouse? How have you treated sex with your spouse? Have you let yourself go? I would try all those things first, but at the end of the day if they don't want to work on it, in my mind your marriage is dead.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> Absolutely, I’ll just add that menopause is not a health condition, it’s a part of life.


Which means, because her natural desire for sex has diminished, it's not natural for her to turn down sex? 

Not meant to be factious, I don't have a clue what you are saying except, you will divorce when she decides she is no longer interested and she doesn't get enough out of it to make the work of getting it worthwhile?

Not sure at all, what you meant.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

If one spouse decides that sex is not important and then unilaterally decides they aren’t having it any more, why would they object to the other spouse seeking sex elsewhere if it is such an unimportant activity.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Sorry, double post for some reason...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> In my honest opinion there are some people that just always have zero libido, and at some point in the marriage they are just open and honest about it. In many situations this is falsely understood that marital sex has ended. *This is because most HD people are insecure are perhaps incapable of accepting and loving a partner that demonstrates an absence of any sexual desire what so ever. *
> 
> You just have to stand back and ask yourself who is rejecting who?


 @badsanta, you have got to be kidding me with this. Are you really serious. 

But you are right about one thing, as a high drive guy, I am completely and totally incapable of accepting a partner that has not desire for me. But it is not out of insecurity, it is because if the have no desire, then they really don't love me. 

If they have no desire, no sexual attraction, or something like that, they do not romantically love me.

At the very least they don't love me the right way. 

So if that happened, it would be an immediate un-reversible end to the relationship...


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> If one spouse decides that sex is not important and then unilaterally decides they aren’t having it any more, why would they object to the other spouse seeking sex elsewhere if it is such an unimportant activity.


Ego


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Which means, because her natural desire for sex has diminished, it's not natural for her to turn down sex?
> 
> Not meant to be factious, I don't have a clue what you are saying except, you will divorce when she decides she is no longer interested and she doesn't get enough out of it to make the work of getting it worthwhile?
> 
> Not sure at all, what you meant.


It’s a normal part of life and therefore not a valid reason to stop having sex. It may be different and some accommodations made, but it’s still happening or the marriage is over.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

badsanta said:


> In my honest opinion there are some people that just always have zero libido, and at some point in the marriage they are just open and honest about it. In many situations this is falsely understood that marital sex has ended. *This is because most HD people are insecure are perhaps incapable of accepting and loving a partner that demonstrates an absence of any sexual desire what so ever. *
> 
> You just have to stand back and ask yourself who is rejecting who?


Where on earth are you getting that HD people are insecure??????

I have to disagree strongly with that assertion. 

I am an HD person but I do not believe that I am any more insecure than the next Regular Joe on the street. Libido and insecurity are two completely different concepts. 

As an HD person, I want to be partnered with someone who has an innate attraction and desire for me and if someone does not have that, then I do not want to be partnered with them. It's that simple and it has nothing to do with insecurity or lack of insecurity. 

It's about values and I value sexual compatibility, passion and desire. Dead fish need not apply. 

Would I reject someone who does not desire me and does not want a sex life with me? The short answer is yes, but the chances are that they would have rejected me first since that would be how it would be discovered that they did not want me. 

As far as loving someone that does not have desire, that depends on how you wish to define love. I doubt if my 75 year old Aunt Beulah has much desire for sex anymore (not that I want to think about that one way or another!) but I still love her as a beloved aunt. 


But no, I could not marry or be with someone that did not desire me sexually. I could not entertain a spouse or marriage with someone that was not sexually compatible with me. 

That is a boundary, a criteria and necessary requirement for marriage and has nothing to do with any insecurities.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

badsanta said:


> In my honest opinion there are some people that just always have zero libido, *and at some point in the marriage they are just open and honest about it. *In many situations this is falsely understood that marital sex has ended. *This is because most HD people are insecure are perhaps incapable of accepting and loving a partner that demonstrates an absence of any sexual desire what so ever. *
> 
> You just have to stand back and ask yourself who is rejecting who?


Unless they were open and honest about it from the beginning, the rest of this post is irrelevant.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Luminous said:


> Ego


I think it goes a lot deeper than that. 

If someone wants to remain married, that means they are getting some kind of benefit and payoff from it whether that is monetary resources, social status, secure and stable home life, full time access to children in home etc etc. 

I think most people are smart enough to realize if they have cut off their partner sexually that if they were to take up sexually with someone else, it would just be a matter of time before they get the boot and those other benefits of marriage would be gone. 

Ego and possessiveness can certainly play into that, but I think there are some tangible, nuts and bolts reasons that even though they have cut their partner off, that they still try to keep them from getting it elsewhere.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

*Re: When one partner declares no longer wants sexual with the other?*



oldshirt said:


> I think it goes a lot deeper than that.
> 
> If someone wants to remain married, that means they are getting some kind of benefit and payoff from it whether that is monetary resources, social status, secure and stable home life, full time access to children in home etc etc.
> 
> ...


…...and I think that is also part of the reason for all the carrot-dangling and implying that there "might" be some poontang in the future for the rejected partner if they play their cards right. They need to keep a small thread of hope alive to keep the other hooked on Hopium that a healthy sex life may be in the future if they stay away from others and keep doing the dishes.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I think it goes a lot deeper than that.
> 
> If someone wants to remain married, that means they are getting some kind of benefit and payoff from it whether that is monetary resources, social status, secure and stable home life, full time access to children in home etc etc.
> 
> ...


My very simplified response, was meant to convey the following sentiment: "I don't want you, but I don't want anyone else to have you"


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> If one spouse decides that sex is not important and then unilaterally decides they aren’t having it any more, why would they object to the other spouse seeking sex elsewhere if it is such an unimportant activity.


see my post #23. 

If they were to allow the other to seek sexuality elsewhere, it would most likely be a quick game-over moment once they found someone else. 

If someone doesn't want to have a sex with their spouse and didn't care about getting any of the other benefits of marriage, they'd like agree to a divorce or would have even filed themselves. 

But if they are wanting to retain the marriage sans the sexuality, then it is in their better interests to allow the other to seek it elsewhere or it would just be nails in the coffin once they did find someone else.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

I couldnt be in a non sexual relationship. It's the only thing that kept my marriage lasting as long as it did tbh. It was the glue that kept us together for that long. 

Without the intimacy I think I would have bailed long before I did.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@oldshirt said: Exactly right.
So at what point should someone wake up and realize that ship has sailed despite what they might be told?

For me it was at the three months mark. Left her and divorce her after 6 years together.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Where on earth are you getting that HD people are insecure??????
> 
> I have to disagree strongly with that assertion.
> 
> ...


I thought that's what we all strived for as part of compatibility, but I have realized it isn't. There is too much deception involved with sex and desire. 

Also, it is damn tough to find that mutually and know it is sincere. The better one is at being able to satisfy another, the less likely that satisfied one will be thinking about a lack of drive compatibility. Accordingly, if it takes a lot of practice to get "good at it", does that also imply that he or she will get tired of it sooner, due to the inability of their partner, who is likely glowing all the time? ha!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> see my post #23.
> 
> If they were to allow the other to seek sexuality elsewhere, it would most likely be a quick game-over moment once they found someone else.
> 
> ...


I think it is the final nail in the coffin sooner or later, anyway. Why put it off? 

Who wants to live with someone that isn't, "all in"? And, you know that it's just a matter of time until that wayward realizes.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

2ntnuf said:


> Which means, because her natural desire for sex has diminished, it's not natural for her to turn down sex?
> 
> Not meant to be factious, I don't have a clue what you are saying except, you will divorce when she decides she is no longer interested and she doesn't get enough out of it to make the work of getting it worthwhile?
> 
> Not sure at all, what you meant.


I'm not going to speak for Charlie Parker but will add my own perspective. 

decreased libido from age/health/menopause is not synonymous with not wanting to have a marital sex life with someone. 

My wife is post menopause and has lost probably 90+ % of her libido and is rarely if ever spontaneously horny. But that doesn't mean that she no longer wants to have a sex life with me. She may not be horny or have any innate desire, but she most likely would not reject me if I asked nicely and was a reasonable request and there are times that she initiates contact because she wants the closeness and to experience the lovins and orgasm etc. 

And vice versa, there are people with fully functioning sex drives and libidos that no longer want to have a sex life with their spouse. 

Those are two different concepts. 

Our sex life is nothing like it was even a handful of years ago but I won't divorce her for it because as was stated above, it is a stage of life and it is something that can be accomidated and modified for. 

But if she were to come right out and tell me that our sex life was over and that she no longer wanted to have any sexuality with me AT ALL, that would be a different story.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> She may not be horny or have any innate desire, but she most likely would not reject me if I asked nicely and was a reasonable request and there are times that she initiates contact because she wants the closeness and to experience the lovins and orgasm etc.
> 
> Our sex life is nothing like it was even a handful of years ago but I won't divorce her for it because as was stated above, it is a stage of life and it is something that can be accommodated and modified for.


It may be a stage of life, however there is something in these paragraphs I quoted that may also give clues to you circumstances.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

2ntnuf said:


> I think it is the final nail in the coffin sooner or later, anyway. Why put it off?
> 
> Who wants to live with someone that isn't, "all in"? And, you know that it's just a matter of time until that wayward realizes.


That may all be correct but I think the rejector lives under some fantasies just like the rejectee does. 

I think many a rejector thinks that they can dangle the carrot and ride the Gravy Train indefinitely without satisfying the other just as the rejectee thinks that some day the other will magically wake up horny and want them again. 

Both live in fantasy worlds and each thinks if they can hold out and play the game well enough, it will all work out.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Luminous said:


> It may be a stage of life, however there is something in these paragraphs I quoted that may also give clues to you circumstances.


I'm not sure I'm following you. What do you mean exactly?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Luminous said:


> It may be a stage of life, however there is something in these paragraphs I quoted that may also give clues to you circumstances.


And, it completely contradicts a previous statement, if I'm not mistaken, in the opening post.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> That may all be correct but I think the rejector lives under some fantasies just like the rejectee does.
> 
> I think many a rejector thinks that they can dangle the carrot and ride the Gravy Train indefinitely without satisfying the other just as the rejectee thinks that some day the other will magically wake up horny and want them again.
> 
> Both live in fantasy worlds and each thinks if they can hold out and play the game well enough, it will all work out.


I was waiting for her to make a decision. She did and I didn't know. She has no integrity where I am concerned and never did. We are, thankfully, divorced. 

So, to relate, all she needed do was tell me she was done and I would have filed. As it was, she messed with my emotions to the point of PTSD and life changes, gaslighting to give herself time to choose or something. I don't really know because she didn't say. 

That's why I say to just be honest. Yeah, it's a tough realization, but it gives the opportunity to talk and get out more peacefully and with less harm.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> > This is because most HD people are insecure are perhaps incapable of accepting and loving a partner that demonstrates an absence of any sexual desire what so ever.
> 
> 
> *Where on earth are you getting that HD people are insecure??????
> ...


*If you were not insecure then you would have no need to defend yourself! *

HD people in my opinion are capable of being extremely insecure. Often the high sexual drive is even fueled by those respective insecurities. You just can't see it from the LD point of view! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

My sex drive slowed down last year at 54. It's kind of liberating to be honest. Prior to that I wanted sex all the time.

Today if I was in a relationship I sure as hell don't think I would want sex every single day but hell im still up for a couple of times a week.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> *If you were not insecure then you would have no need to defend yourself! *
> 
> HD people in my opinion are capable of being extremely insecure. Often the high sexual drive is even fueled by those respective insecurities. You just can't see it from the LD point of view!
> 
> ...


With respect, brother this is the craziest thing you have ever written. I guess you are the low drive partner because only the LD person could delude themselves like this. 

It is actually the polar opposite of what you are saying, or it is for me. Like @oldshirt I prioritize sex in my life. It is important to me. I am not saying that it equals love or anything like that, but it is required for love, in my life. 

It is OK if a woman lost attraction for me, and did not what to have sex with me. While that has never happened, I am sure that it could one day.

Now, if it did happen, I hope they would be honest with me. But eventually I would figure it out and the relationship would be over. I would quickly find another partner that did love me and was attracted to me. 

Maybe you live a different way, more power to you. 

But insecurity and HD are not related for most people, actually any people that I know. Maybe they are out there and I just don't know them...


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not sure I'm following you. What do you mean exactly?


I was hoping that I didn't have to spell it out, but 'Ask nicely' and 'reasonable request' sounds more like a dog begging for a treat. 

From what is written, it seems like you don't have much input to what the frequency of sexual encounters is.

Have you been the main provider throughout your marriage? (Income, bills etc.)


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

@badsanta this is an interesting perspective.

I have also noticed a high correlation with SOME sexually high drive men and women being insecure.

Or perhaps it would be better stated - SOME insecure men and women being sexually high drive
@badsanta do you work in the mental health field as a psychotherapist or psychologist by chance? I ask because I think I read in old posts that you do or did, but I could be mistaking you with another poster.

I ask that because if you do or did work in the mental health field, do you think the high drive/insecurity in SOME men and women, has to do with attachment trauma in early childhood, perhaps even pre verbal early childhood?

Sorry for that threadjack @oldshirt.

As a high drive woman, I absolutely would walk if not a health issue or other major life crisis. I might give him 3-6 months (at most) to get it figured out, depending on the man, our relationship, his eagerness to get it resolved, etc.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

musiclover said:


> My sex drive slowed down last year at 54. It's kind of liberating to be honest. Prior to that I wanted sex all the time.
> 
> Today if I was in a relationship I sure as hell don't think I would want sex every single day but hell im still up for a couple of times a week.


Also 54. Also noticed a decreased libido. Meanwhile, wifes has picked up.

We're meeting in the middle nicely. 

And the improved quality more than compensates for any reduction in quantity.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Luminous said:


> I was hoping that I didn't have to spell it out, but 'Ask nicely' and 'reasonable request' sounds more like a dog begging for a treat.
> 
> From what is written, it seems like you don't have much input to what the frequency of sexual encounters is.
> 
> Have you been the main provider throughout your marriage? (Income, bills etc.)


Oh ok, I see what you are saying. 

I used the term 'ask nicely' and 'reasonable request' to mean that I am not hitting on her like a drunken frat rat or when she is sick or walking out of the house to go to work etc etc

I did not mean to imply begging for a treat or anything like that. I just meant a respectful, compassionate initiation at a reasonable time and circumstance. 

As far as input to frequency, this has become kind of a quality vs quantity type thing. If I initiate frequently, the quality can drop off and she'll be basically appeasing me/duty sex. If I wait until she is wanting some love'ns the quality and her engagement is pretty good. So that often spells the difference between once a week if I was initiating vs every week 1/2- 2 weeks for higher quality if she initiates and I can live with that. 

Our annual incomes are usually within just a few thousand dollars a year of each other so I do not see that as much of a factor.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

badsanta said:


> *If you were not insecure then you would have no need to defend yourself! *
> 
> HD people in my opinion are capable of being extremely insecure. Often the high sexual drive is even fueled by those respective insecurities. You just can't see it from the LD point of view!
> 
> ...


I wasn't defending myself, I was simply using my perspective as a firsthand example. 

I'm not saying I that I have zero insecurities as we all have our own individual baggage and challenges. I am saying that just because someone is HD that does not automatically mean they are insecure or that their motivations and behaviors are being driven by insecurity. 

In my own perspective, sexual compatibility is important to me and it is something that I value in a primary relationship. If it is not there, then the relationship will be dissolved or would most likely not get off the ground to begin with. 

I do not see that as insecure. I see the opposite in fact. IMHO someone remaining with someone with whom they are not compatible and with whom they are dissatisfied with is what is insecurity driven. 

When I see someone clinging to someone that doesn't want them or someone that they are fundamentally incompatible with and dissatisfied with - I see that as the manifestation of insecurity in that they fear they will not be able to find someone they get on with better. 

Perhaps you and I have different ideas on and different definitions of what insecurity means. 

I don't see me valuing sexual chemistry and wanting to be with someone who desires me as insecurity, I see it as being true to myself and not settling for less than what I want. How is that insecure????


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

badsanta said:


> HD people in my opinion are capable of being extremely insecure. Often the high sexual drive is even fueled by those respective insecurities.


If you and @WildMustang are referring to people acting compulsively and acting out in a compulsive and maladaptive manner - then I see your point. 

But I am not talking about sex addicts or people who are compulsively and dysfunctionally promiscuous or anything like that. 

I am talking about normal, healthy Joes and Janes who value a healthy and happy sex life within a functional relationship. I see no correlation with insecurity in that.


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

I often read people (men and women) say that one of the reasons a dead bedroom hurts so much is that it makes them feel undesirable and unwanted. I think women particularly can often rate their value and attractiveness on how much their male partners desire them. That's a type of insecurity, and I think it can heighten desire in the denied partner making them the HD even when they may not be naturally or with a more desiring partner. 

I remember reading on a reddit sub some of the very thoughtful and usually older posters say that it was important to not use sex for validation. That just because one person doesn't desire you doesn't mean you're undesirable. And to be strong enough to remain confident and secure in yourself whether or not your partner wants to have sex with you. Basically to remove the needy, validation part of sex and want it for itself alone. 

I don't know if I'm explaining it very well, but it does seem to connect to the insecurity or need for validation of some HD people in a relationship. I know not all HD people feel this way.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dusk said:


> I often read people (men and women) say that one of the reasons a dead bedroom hurts so much is that it makes them feel undesirable and unwanted. I think women particularly can often rate their value and attractiveness on how much their male partners desire them. That's a type of insecurity, and I think it can heighten desire in the denied partner making them the HD even when they may not be naturally or with a more desiring partner.
> 
> I remember reading on a reddit sub some of the very thoughtful and usually older posters say that it was important to not use sex for validation. That just because one person doesn't desire you doesn't mean you're undesirable. And to be strong enough to remain confident and secure in yourself whether or not your partner wants to have sex with you. Basically to remove the needy, validation part of sex and want it for itself alone.
> 
> I don't know if I'm explaining it very well, but it does seem to connect to the insecurity or need for validation of some HD people in a relationship. I know not all HD people feel this way.


Some people do want sex as a form of validation.

But others just like sex and the thought of never having sex again is not something some want. Sex is actually good for one's health.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Probably not high drive in comparison to most others your age, then. Just a normal male of your age group. 

This HD and LD stuff is weird because it's so subjective. No one can know what another's definition is, and it makes for disagreements.

Sorry, in response to this post: https://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-m...no-longer-wants-sex-other-3.html#post19737439


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

Yes of course lots of people just like sex for sex itself. I just think it's interesting and valuable to separate desire for sex itself from desire for the validation that comes from being wanted, which comes up very frequently on these types of threads. 

I read a long thread here recently where one of the people involved basically only valued and enjoyed sex with their partner for the validation of their attraction that it brought them. So when things started to fall apart due to some sexual disfunction, their interest in sex disappeared, and the marriage eventually ended.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

My brother and I watched our father suffer through what we correctly perceived to be a sexless marriage with our mother. (Decades later I gained insight into a lot of the reasons for it, but that’s another story.) Based on that alone, prior to marrying my wife, I told her I wouldn’t live like that. She’s mostly gotten the message.

I guess I don’t get why more people don’t have this conversation prior to marriage or in the early days of their marriages. Maybe it’s because they figure that whatever pre-marriage sexcapades they had with their SOs would continue into marriage?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> badsanta said:
> 
> 
> > In my honest opinion there are some people that just always have zero libido, *and at some point in the marriage they are just open and honest about it. *In many situations this is falsely understood that marital sex has ended. *This is because most HD people are insecure are perhaps incapable of accepting and loving a partner that demonstrates an absence of any sexual desire what so ever. *
> ...


Yep.

Marrying someone and expecting not to have sex is basically either deceptive or exceptionally stupid.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Badsanta, are you by chance a self-centered, passive aggressive, asexual schoolteacher?

If so, I want my Christmas dishes back.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I know it was hell for me when I lost interest. I knew why and told her. She didn't take me seriously, but then, she couldn't. She was well experienced and felt no embarrassment. Disparity in experience is a problem. Not just because one will know how to do more than the other. There are many things that change in a person.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

badsanta said:


> In my honest opinion there are some people that just always have zero libido, and at some point in the marriage they are just open and honest about it. In many situations this is falsely understood that marital sex has ended. *This is because most HD people are insecure are perhaps incapable of accepting and loving a partner that demonstrates an absence of any sexual desire what so ever. *
> 
> You just have to stand back and ask yourself who is rejecting who?


Waiting for the punchline...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> A few years ago a colleague who was normally very reserved and kept himself to himself asked me would I answer a personal question.I said maybe and asked him what he wanted to know.He was engaged and living with his girlfriend in his own house, I was single at the time and we both were working for the same company.
> He asked me when was the last time I had sex!
> I looked at my watch (I had sex that morning) and he then said hurriedly “It’s ok,don’t bother answering”.
> I asked him wtf he was on about and he said the fact that I only had to look at my watch told him all he needed to know.He said he would have needed a calendar going back months to answer the same question.
> ...


Should have sent him some panties for him to wear for her on their honeymoon.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

For me it may depend on when this happened. So if I was engaged and my fiancé said that they didn't want sex with me ever, then I would not stay with that person. Partly because I wanted children. 

If it happened later on, say in our 50's or 60's, and we were married, there is no way that I would end that marriage over one thing, nor cheat. I don't have it in me to cheat nor to have sex with a man I don't love. 

I would suggest marriage counselling to find out why this had happened, and would make sure we talked a lot about what was going on, but I would not end the marriage.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Lots of different situations. Lots of reasons people might not want sex. Lots of reasons someone might stay in a marriage even though they were rejected for sex. I don't think there are any clear cut answers.

I think it does help to be realistic. If someone has been turned down regularly for many months, and there is no clear medical issue for the LD person, and no clear action that HD should take to make themselves more desirable, then I think it is safe for the HD to assume that an active sex life is not an option. They can then make an informed choice.


If I were 20 again would I marry a LD woman: No. Will I leave my LD wife after 30 years? No


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> A few years ago a colleague who was normally very reserved and kept himself to himself asked me would I answer a personal question.I said maybe and asked him what he wanted to know.He was engaged and living with his girlfriend in his own house, I was single at the time and we both were working for the same company.
> He asked me when was the last time I had sex!
> I looked at my watch (I had sex that morning) and he then said hurriedly “It’s ok,don’t bother answering”.
> I asked him wtf he was on about and he said the fact that I only had to look at my watch told him all he needed to know.He said he would have needed a calendar going back months to answer the same question.
> ...


What an idiot!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Personal said:


> What an idiot!


I left the company a few months after that but I still do a lot of business with them and his name crops up in correspondence from time to time.Apparently shortly after they got married she developed “depression” and had to give up working and basically stayed in bed all day.
So he had a sexless marriage where he had to do all the housework and cooking.
And he is still with her over ten years later.
Some people can’t be helped,they love being miserable.
It’s a martyr complex.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> My brother and I watched our father suffer through what we correctly perceived to be a sexless marriage with our mother. (Decades later I gained insight into a lot of the reasons for it, but that’s another story.) Based on that alone, prior to marrying my wife, I told her I wouldn’t live like that. She’s mostly gotten the message.
> 
> I guess I don’t get why more people don’t have this conversation prior to marriage or in the early days of their marriages. *Maybe it’s because they figure that whatever pre-marriage sexcapades they had with their SOs would continue into marriage?*


*
*

Well, DUH, of course. It is endemic to the difference between men and women. I had this exact convo with an engaged friend -male. Women either lie directly or just change hormonaly, it doesn't really matter which. Blissfully ignorant and determined to stay that way. He is something like 20 years younger, highly educated and not what you would call a neanderthal. Hope I get the chance to revisit the conversation in 5 or 10 years after a child cones along>>


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

anonmd said:


> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> > My brother and I watched our father suffer through what we correctly perceived to be a sexless marriage with our mother. (Decades later I gained insight into a lot of the reasons for it, but that’s another story.) Based on that alone, prior to marrying my wife, I told her I wouldn’t live like that. She’s mostly gotten the message.
> ...


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

RedPill incels are my favorite entertainment.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Unless there is some sort of health condition, I think it's grounds for divorce in my mind.


If there is some sort of health condition and the denying spouse isn't diligently seeking successful treatment I still think it's grounds.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

If my wife decided she didn’t want sex any more I would still love her and cherish her.
Even if I never seen her again lol.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MJJEAN said:


> sokillme said:
> 
> 
> > Unless there is some sort of health condition, I think it's grounds for divorce in my mind.
> ...


Yup


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Sexual intimacy is one of the basic pillars that makes up a marriage. If a partner just declares that it's over, then it would be the same as declaring that one of the other pillars is also over, such as communication, financial support, fidelity, etc.

But I think more commonly is that relationships and emotions are very complicated. I often get the sense that the LD person doesn't really have a concrete reason as to why they don't have the desire anymore. One thing I sometimes notice from the outside in the case of a LD W is that the H is not really working on creating an intimate emotional connection like they had at the beginning. The H is caught up in the day-to-day grind of life and isn't really there at the close emotional level. And since it's often the case that women need to have a strong emotional connection to create the desire for intimacy, it's not too surprising that she loses her drive as they get emotionally farther apart. 

And furthermore, I think lack of emotional intimacy is the silent killer of marriages. It's easy for the W to build strong emotional connections with her girl friends as they pour their hearts out over wine and appetizers. While the H may feel starved for affection and make his needs well known, the W gets her emotional needs satisfied through friends, social activities, kids, etc. The lack of emotional connection doesn't have the same explosive effect as lack of sexual intimacy, so the couple may not even notice it.

So quite often when I read the threads of the zero-desire W, I see the underlying reason is that the H has let the emotional intimacy die. He expects sexual intimacy to be a constant in the marriage, but has no problem letting the emotional intimacy fade away. If he wants "new relationship" sex, he should foster "new relationship" emotional intimacy.

The MMSLP is often suggested to the H, but there also needs to be the MMELP which is about rebuilding emotional intimacy. Without the emotional connection to her H, it probably feels creepy when he tries to put the moves on her. Most of us would probably feel that way if an acquaintance tried to have sex with us. So before the H starts to lay down the law that sex will be a 2x/week occurrence (e.g. chore), he should take a step back and fix the emotional connection first. If nothing else, it will lay the good groundwork to fix the sex issues.


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## HDC (Nov 8, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> My brother and I watched our father suffer through what we correctly perceived to be a sexless marriage with our mother. (Decades later I gained insight into a lot of the reasons for it, but that’s another story.) Based on that alone, prior to marrying my wife, I told her I wouldn’t live like that. She’s mostly gotten the message.
> 
> I guess I don’t get why more people don’t have this conversation prior to marriage or in the early days of their marriages. Maybe it’s because they figure that whatever pre-marriage sexcapades they had with their SOs would continue into marriage?



We were so young and naive that we didn’t even know to have this conversation. I always assumed that after marriage the sex would get more frequent, more adventurous. I truly believe my wife thought that once you’re married that sex is not as important or necessary.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I was similarly naive and young. I just assumed that if everything else in the marriage was great, sex would be great too. I spent so long trying to figure out what was *wrong* , before finally realizing that she just didn't want sex. 




HDC said:


> We were so young and naive that we didn’t even know to have this conversation. I always assumed that after marriage the sex would get more frequent, more adventurous. I truly believe my wife thought that once you’re married that sex is not as important or necessary.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Many people, many situations. I agree that some times the husband (putting aside for the moment that HD/LD can be either gender), stops providing emotional support. Other times though, that hasn't happened at all. 

In my case, I did not let emotional support drop - there was just no sexual interest from my wife. In her case it is not that she "doesn't have sexual desire *anymore*, she never did". 

Many other situations. There are bait /switch where a LD person, knowing that they are LD, pretends to enjoy sex until they are married and have a kid.

There are cases where the HD person is really not contributing to the marriage, so their partner naturally looses interest. 





wilson said:


> Sexual intimacy is one of the basic pillars that makes up a marriage. If a partner just declares that it's over, then it would be the same as declaring that one of the other pillars is also over, such as communication, financial support, fidelity, etc.
> 
> But I think more commonly is that relationships and emotions are very complicated. I often get the sense that the LD person doesn't really have a concrete reason as to why they don't have the desire anymore. One thing I sometimes notice from the outside in the case of a LD W is that the H is not really working on creating an intimate emotional connection like they had at the beginning. The H is caught up in the day-to-day grind of life and isn't really there at the close emotional level. And since it's often the case that women need to have a strong emotional connection to create the desire for intimacy, it's not too surprising that she loses her drive as they get emotionally farther apart.
> 
> ...


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

“Many other situations. There are bait /switch where a LD person, knowing that they are LD, pretends to enjoy sex until they are married and have a kid.”

...or married and hoping she will age quickly and not want sex anymore and he will be off the hook so they can just live like roommates 

Many other situations indeed...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

For the record, I didn't apply a gender to the bait and switch. It happens both ways. 

Its all sad. Sexual mismatches cause a lot of misery for a lot of people. Its just socially difficult to discuss because I think often LD people feel uncomfortable talking about sex, and will steer conversations away from that direction. 

I have sympathy for everyone except those who engaged in intentional deception. 





Elizabeth001 said:


> “Many other situations. There are bait /switch where a LD person, knowing that they are LD, pretends to enjoy sex until they are married and have a kid.”
> 
> ...or married and hoping she will age quickly and not want sex anymore and he will be off the hook so they can just live like roommates
> 
> ...


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

uhtred said:


> For the record, I didn't apply a gender to the bait and switch. It happens both ways.
> 
> Its all sad. Sexual mismatches cause a lot of misery for a lot of people. Its just socially difficult to discuss because I think often LD people feel uncomfortable talking about sex, and will steer conversations away from that direction.
> 
> I have sympathy for everyone except those who engaged in intentional deception.


Couple the defensiveness of the LD spouse and the hordes who minimize sex and stand in judgment of those who believe it is important, and it's tough to tackle the subject at all


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

HDC said:


> We were so young and naive that we didn’t even know to have this conversation. I always assumed that after marriage the sex would get more frequent, more adventurous. I truly believe my wife thought that once you’re married that sex is not as important or necessary.


We had that conversation, the word oxygen came up. Granted she wasn't so young and had "considerable" experience. 

We still talk about how it is important and necessary (which isn't super sexy per se but it beats the alternative).


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

wilson said:


> And furthermore, I think lack of emotional intimacy is the silent killer of marriages. It's easy for the W to build strong emotional connections with her girl friends as they pour their hearts out over wine and appetizers. While the H may feel starved for affection and make his needs well known, the W gets her emotional needs satisfied through friends, social activities, kids, etc. The lack of emotional connection doesn't have the same explosive effect as lack of sexual intimacy, so the couple may not even notice it.


I think that in some cases the lack of sex can also lead to emotional intimacy dying. It's hard to be emotionally intimate with someone when you think they don't want you, aren't attracted to you, don't desire you, or don't care about the sex life at all. One of you is going to be pretty upset about the situation and stop being emotionally intimate.

I also think that despite the lack of emotional intimacy, a lot of us believe that people want and will get sex no matter what. This lead to being perplexed as to how the spouse can go six months without ever asking why don't have sex? Are they having an affair? Could they really just be content with being celebrate when you are not? So it's hard to believe they don't occasionally need sex even if they don't even like you all that much.

Just going on my own experience, I find that we're a lot more affectionate within 7 days of sex than we are when it has been two weeks and we're caught in the hum-drum of the daily grind. It's some effort to flame things up a bit when you're just out of the habit. I feel like I need to make extra effort to be affectionate for a day or two then see if she's interested in sex because I know she won't break us out of the funk.

So maybe one partner is just better about being attentive to the health to the relationship and it gets tiring after a while.

I don't know if I have a point, except that lack of sex can lead to an unaffectionate relationship or even an angry partner, not just the reverse.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

Dusk said:


> That just because one person doesn't desire you doesn't mean you're undesirable. And to be strong enough to remain confident and secure in yourself whether or not your partner wants to have sex with you. Basically to remove the needy, validation part of sex and want it for itself alone.


It doesn't mean you're not desirable. I just means you're not desireableble to the one you're married to and that's pretty important. The question is, does that spouse simply desire no one at all or just not you and many of us find it hard to believe someone could just desire no one at all, therefore, it must be you. This is where validation gets tricky and why it happens.

But some people on here will tell you they simply desire no one for sex at all ever (or at least very rarely.)

My wife rather suddenly turned LD about five years ago. It sure messed with my mind because I spent a lot of unhappy time trying to figure out what was wrong with ME because HER behavior changed. Fortunately, I eventually fixed this but it takes ongoing effort (though getting easier.)


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> There are many threads here and on other boards about sexless marriages. But without naming names, there is only one thread I am aware of where the denying spouse has declared openly that they no longer want any sex at all with their spouse.
> 
> *It seems in the vast majority of cases, the denier at least implies that they would be agreeable to sex if they happen to find themselves in the mood or if the stars are all aligned perfectly or if the denied party were to jump through all 10,000 hoops and hurdles rub their bellies and pat their heads while blowing bubbles and singing the national anthem at the same time.
> 
> ...


The part I bolded describes my ex. She didn't want to have sex no matter what (and still doesn't, apparently, even though she has remarried, based on hints from our son). Once I figured that out, and realized there was no solution, I moved on. My present wonderful wife also experienced a sexless relationship. We agreed we'd never again be in one, so any unilateral decision to stop having sex would essentially be a declaration that divorce is inevitable. If one of us couldn't have regular sex (medical reasons, for example), we have in place an agreement that we can seek it elsewhere, and if staying married makes it too difficult to find partners, we'd divorce (even if we stayed together otherwise).

IMO, if one partner declares that there will be no sex, but wants to stay married, the other partner is free to do whatever they wish to satisfy their needs, with or without permission. This is probably the only scenario where I think that's justifiable.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CharlieParker said:


> Absolutely, I’ll just add that menopause is not a health condition, it’s a part of life.



Is death a health condition? It can’t be an excuse not to have sex, if it’s part of life surely? 
Though I do view ageing as a type of health condition...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> You just have to stand back and ask yourself who is rejecting who?



Who[M]m[/M] 



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> A few years ago a colleague who was normally very reserved and kept himself to himself asked me would I answer a personal question.I said maybe and asked him what he wanted to know.He was engaged and living with his girlfriend in his own house, I was single at the time and we both were working for the same company.
> 
> He asked me when was the last time I had sex!
> 
> ...




Not even to their wedding night? 


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

JamesTKirk said:


> I think that in some cases the lack of sex can also lead to emotional intimacy dying. It's hard to be emotionally intimate with someone when you think they don't want you, aren't attracted to you, don't desire you, or don't care about the sex life at all. One of you is going to be pretty upset about the situation and stop being emotionally intimate.


Certainly lack of sex can reduce emotional intimacy. It will create resentment and other negative thoughts and feelings that will cause the person to pull away. But the HD person has to realize that they are the one seeking a solution. Regardless of whether it's fair or not, the LD person often isn't trying to change the situation. The HD person needs to take a step back and ensure that the emotional intimacy in the relationship is at a good level before trying to fix things. They may have to fake it and put their resentment aside to make it happen, but it's unlikely things will get better if emotional intimacy is lacking. A strategy of "give me sex and I'll be more motivated to give you more emotional intimacy" rarely works out.

Emotional intimacy is like gas in a car. Without it, the car doesn't run. But even with gas, there's still lots of things that can break in a car and make it non-functional. Just fixing emotional intimacy won't be the magic solution to more sex, but without it there is little chance of things getting better. 

But then assuming that there is emotional intimacy, the HD person should expect the LD person to make reasonable efforts towards fixing the problem. They should understand that sex is part of a successful relationship even if they don't feel it, they should work towards enjoying sex more, they should refrain from stressful activities which kill their drive, etc. If the LD person is resistant or opposed to fixing things even though they are otherwise happy with the relationship, then that's a sign it's not going to work out and the HD person shouldn't hang on for years hoping things will change.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Unless there is some sort of health condition, I think it's grounds for divorce in my mind.


I would agree with you on that it is grounds for divorce, just like short-changing someone in a supermarket is grounds for prosecution. After about two weeks very loud alarm bells would start ringing in my head. I would start asking if this is going to be the norm. If he does not answer my direct questions, he is not ill, mentally or physically, he has not told me about an affair, there is no evidence of depression, then i have to tell him I do not appreciate his attitude to our relationship and he needs to declare his intention one way or the other. After three weeks I have to leave or ask him to leave. After five weeks if nothing has changed i will assume the relationship is unsustainable. Prepare for divorce. 

I really do not think couples should argue about sex. It should be assumed that if my husband wants it, I am here to provide it. If I want it, he is here to provide it. Unless there is illness. I would not go to counselling in order for him to resume sex with me. I would see it as clearly read that I no longer fit his general plan of life.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

MaiChi said:


> I would agree with you on that it is grounds for divorce, just like short-changing someone in a supermarket is grounds for prosecution. After about two weeks very loud alarm bells would start ringing in my head. I would start asking if this is going to be the norm. If he does not answer my direct questions, he is not ill, mentally or physically, he has not told me about an affair, there is no evidence of depression, then i have to tell him I do not appreciate his attitude to our relationship and he needs to declare his intention one way or the other. After three weeks I have to leave or ask him to leave. After five weeks if nothing has changed i will assume the relationship is unsustainable. Prepare for divorce.
> 
> I really do not think couples should argue about sex. It should be assumed that if my husband wants it, I am here to provide it. If I want it, he is here to provide it. Unless there is illness. I would not go to counselling in order for him to resume sex with me. I would see it as clearly read that I no longer fit his general plan of life.


This is exactly right...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

The fact is, if you aren't into her, there isn't much you can do except take a Viagra and let her go at it. You may not climax, but that's too bad. 

I think some forget it is different for men than it is for women.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

2ntnuf said:


> The fact is, if you aren't into her, there isn't much you can do except take a Viagra and let her go at it. You may not climax, but that's too bad.
> 
> I think some forget it is different for men than it is for women.


Then agree to a divorce ASAP and let her go. Not fair after so many years of being into her to suddenly declare that he is not into her any more. What is she expected to do about it? What is the rational thing for her to do? 

Better tell her he is not into her and can she please listen to his good byes and let him go. Her options are not many.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

MaiChi said:


> Then agree to a divorce ASAP and let her go. Not fair after so many years of being into her to suddenly declare that he is not into her any more. What is she expected to do about it? What is the rational thing for her to do?
> 
> Better tell her he is not into her and can she please listen to his good byes and let him go. Her options are not many.


She has to ask for it, before he knows she wants the divorce. How many years is so many? 

I don't think it happens suddenly. It happens over a period of time where he learns what she teaches, all the while hoping that she is humble enough to have heard what he told her and believe it. 

I don't think she is expected to do anything about it. If he drops it on her that he doesn't want sex with her any more, it's time to leave. She doesn't need his approval. 

Her options are not many? Well, let's see.

She can cheat.

She can talk.

She can listen.

She can divorce.

There are four off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more choices. 

However, you missed the point of what I posted. If he isn't into her, he stays limp. You can't push a cooked spaghetti noodle into a straw. That's what I meant by that post. 


I think it's a little different for women. No? :grin2:


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

2ntnuf said:


> She has to ask for it, before he knows she wants the divorce. How many years is so many?
> 
> I don't think it happens suddenly. It happens over a period of time where he learns what she teaches, all the while hoping that she is humble enough to have heard what he told her and believe it.
> 
> ...


Maybe we use different language here. I understood that "He is not into her" to mean HIS ATTITUDE, which then causes his spaghetti to seem cooked. you seem to imply that the cooking might well be medical or unintentional at least. Could he go to the doctor and have it fixed. Does he want her but just cannot re-Dry his spaghetti? You are saying she could listen. 

It is always good to listen and discuss, but i started by saying I would have given our relationship 3 weeks of absence of him finding the straw and having a go. In the absence of a viable reason for nothing happening, and no explanation of context, I would add another two weeks and after that that is my personal limit. Not speaking for anyone else. 

So i do not see how the whole thing could be protracted to what we might call a long time. There would be a good reason like medical. and the doctor would have been involved. If there is a good reason, then the whole thing has been explained I will not have issues with him. 


The cooked spaghetti scenario is not the only mode of intimacy so we would be happy carrying on. I thought we were talking about someone whose attitude is like "Sorry I am not interested any more" and no feedback about reasons. 

On the option of an affair, Personally i would not explore that option. I believe in always looking to finish this relationship before ever embarking on another. I think that is the most honest route to take. So i would have to consider only divorce if his attitude was what I consider to e wrong and it was clear he was not ill somehow. He was still as rational as ever. 

Women are not that different medically we can also have real issues, like dryness, pain, but I thought the topic was about those who just decide they are no longer interested, (Not medical issues) 

Divorce would be asked for as soon as i know he is serious about never wanting sex as opposed to not being able to have sex. Two different issues. By week 5 the topic would have been discussed. No need to hang about if he does not want me. 

Is what I think.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

MaiChi said:


> Maybe we use different language here. I understood that "He is not into her" to mean HIS ATTITUDE, which then causes his spaghetti to seem cooked. you seem to imply that the cooking might well be medical or unintentional at least. Could he go to the doctor and have it fixed. Does he want her but just cannot re-Dry his spaghetti? You are saying she could listen.
> 
> It is always good to listen and discuss, but i started by saying I would have given our relationship 3 weeks of absence of him finding the straw and having a go. In the absence of a viable reason for nothing happening, and no explanation of context, I would add another two weeks and after that that is my personal limit. Not speaking for anyone else.
> 
> ...





> Maybe we use different language here. I understood that "He is not into her" to mean HIS ATTITUDE, which then causes his spaghetti to seem cooked. you seem to imply that the cooking might well be medical or unintentional at least. Could he go to the doctor and have it fixed. Does he want her but just cannot re-Dry his spaghetti? You are saying she could listen.


You think it means he can get an erection with her, but doesn't want to try? I didn't get that out of it. If he isn't into her, he might get it up while he is being stimulated, but it generally won't stay up unless continuously stimulated and he trains his mind to think of something else. Even that doesn't work well. 

If he isn't into her, there is something about her that doesn't do it for him. Who knows what that is? We can't assume that he just doesn't want her because he is a jerk. At the same time, we can't assume that she is wanted by the majority of men in the world, either. We really can't assume anything. 

If I was told to get it up in two weeks or divorce, I'd say, "File". Why? It isn't that simple, if he is saying he isn't into her. Something is wrong.




> Women are not that different medically we can also have real issues, like dryness, pain, but I thought the topic was about those who just decide they are no longer interested, (Not medical issues)


Not too many men just decide they aren't interested. 

Pain? Something is medically wrong. 

Dryness? Kind of normal as a woman ages. Right? Some slow build up and some lube and gentle care would work. 

Erections? Lube will make less feeling. Doesn't help keep it up. Like I said, if he isn't into her, it is tough for him to keep it up. Let's face it, get some lube and take your time, and lots of things can be inserted and give some pleasure, but if a man can't get an erection due to whatever, even not into you, he's finished.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> Is death a health condition? It can’t be an excuse not to have sex, if it’s part of life surely?
> Though I do view ageing as a type of health condition...


When the question comes up as to what guys look for in a woman my number one answer is always a pulse. 

But seriously, yes, at some point tab A in slot B will stop working but that won’t mean the nookie is stopping. Granted I’m assuming our hands, tongues, fingers or mouths will continue to work, because we want it to.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

2ntnuf said:


> You think it means he can get an erection with her, but doesn't want to try? I didn't get that out of it. If he isn't into her, he might get it up while he is being stimulated, but it generally won't stay up unless continuously stimulated and he trains his mind to think of something else. Even that doesn't work well.
> 
> If he isn't into her, there is something about her that doesn't do it for him. Who knows what that is? We can't assume that he just doesn't want her because he is a jerk. At the same time, we can't assume that she is wanted by the majority of men in the world, either. We really can't assume anything.
> 
> ...



I think I get your point now. I thought the issue was that he is just unilaterally deciding he does want sex any more, and not that he could not do it any more.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

MaiChi said:


> I think I get your point now. I thought the issue was that he is just unilaterally deciding he does want sex any more, and not that he could not do it any more.


I think I couldn't just say, I don't want sex any more and mean it, unless there was some reason I could not perform. Eventually, I'd get horny. If masturbation is better than sex, something is wrong. The only other thing I can think of is infidelity with another human. 

So, I was going from that angle. Thanks for thinking about it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

2ntnuf said:


> She has to ask for it, before he knows she wants the divorce. How many years is so many?
> 
> I don't think it happens suddenly. It happens over a period of time where he learns what she teaches, all the while hoping that she is humble enough to have heard what he told her and believe it.
> 
> ...



I had to think about the spaghetti and straw thing for a second.

Then remembered spaghetti came hard and long, in a long box.

Nevermind.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

john117 said:


> Hint: it doesn't happen instantaneously... It sort of withers away over time.


As ee cummings would say: “Not with a bang but a whimper.”


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

When my now XH pulled this trick on me a couple months after we got married, I was shocked. Prior to meeting me, he was a virgin (and we started dating shortly before his 42nd birthday), so I stupidly assumed that he would be more than happy to be having all the sex in the world. And he was, for awhile, until after he hooked me in.

After getting over my initial shock and speechlessness, I told him that I didn't sign up for what he was giving me, and that if he needed to go talk to a therapist to find out what was going on, he was to do that. I told him that the issue needed to get resolved soon, as I wasn't going to remain in a marriage to someone who didn't want to be with me physically. And if it couldn't be resolved, and we tried staying together, would he be open to an open marriage. His answer to that was "no". Eventually, sex picked back up again, but the quality of it never really improved, and then it was my turn a couple years later to stop wanting it. The difference: I kept giving it because I was his wife. He withheld it. One of the many reasons he's now my EX-husband!


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Ursula said:


> When my now XH pulled this trick on me a couple months after we got married, I was shocked. Prior to meeting me, he was a virgin (and we started dating shortly before his 42nd birthday), so I stupidly assumed that he would be more than happy to be having all the sex in the world. And he was, for awhile, until after he hooked me in.
> 
> After getting over my initial shock and speechlessness, I told him that I didn't sign up for what he was giving me, and that if he needed to go talk to a therapist to find out what was going on, he was to do that. I told him that the issue needed to get resolved soon, as I wasn't going to remain in a marriage to someone who didn't want to be with me physically. And if it couldn't be resolved, and we tried staying together, would he be open to an open marriage. His answer to that was "no". Eventually, sex picked back up again, but the quality of it never really improved, and then it was my turn a couple years later to stop wanting it. The difference: I kept giving it because I was his wife. He withheld it. One of the many reasons he's now my EX-husband!


You of course did the right thing. 

But next time, if there is one, you may want to assume that most 42 year old virgins, may have issues in the sex department... I am just saying...


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> You of course did the right thing.
> 
> But next time, if there is one, you may want to assume that most 42 year old virgins, may have issues in the sex department... I am just saying...


Oh yes, they probably do! I've been seeing someone that I met online, and while we haven't explored between the sheets yet, I'm positive that he has some experience under his belt. Pardon the pun!


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## bikermehound (Mar 24, 2017)

hi how did that go for you when you told him you did not sign up for this ,i am kinda in the same boat looking towards the future ,please get back to me thanks bret

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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

If your partner is polite / generous enough to tell you (by word or by deed) that they no longer want sex with you, thank them for their honesty and leave. Yes, it is as simple as that. And no, I didn't do it. Which is why anyone with any sense should.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

bikermehound said:


> hi how did that go for you when you told him you did not sign up for this ,i am kinda in the same boat looking towards the future ,please get back to me thanks bret


She had sense enough to divorce him, because she was honest enough with herself that she knew she could not live that way...

So where does that put you???


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> There are many threads here and on other boards about sexless marriages. But without naming names, there is only one thread I am aware of where the denying spouse has declared openly that they no longer want any sex at all with their spouse.
> 
> It seems in the vast majority of cases, the denier at least implies that they would be agreeable to sex if they happen to find themselves in the mood or if the stars are all aligned perfectly or if the denied party were to jump through all 10,000 hoops and hurdles rub their bellies and pat their heads while blowing bubbles and singing the national anthem at the same time.
> 
> ...



My wife did this a long time ago. I basically told her that we would either have sex or i would find another partner. What's funny is that we have sex FAR more often now, and we both found other partners as well. Its not uncommon for us to have sex four times a day...

One partner can do whatever they want. Thing is, so can the other. Greatest thing in the world for a marriage is to learn to cooperate. Not compromise, but cooperate.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

a partner telling the other there is no sexual attraction and there will be no more sex...ever...means

1) divorce
or 
2) that other partner has full permission now to find other lovers


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> But without naming names, there is only one thread I am aware of where the denying spouse has declared openly that they no longer want any sex at all with their spouse.


That would be me... :laugh:

I missed this thread, because I've been taking a break from this madness. Meaning, my own marriage. I cannot be in a marriage without a sexual connection, so it's curtains for me (now, May, September or whenever). My wife said I can have sex somewhere else, but it doesn't work and it won't work. So, I'm not doing that. Sad state of affairs. My wife has been very clear and open about it. She has mentioned empty nest syndrome and menopause as reasons. Also her upbringing. She has serious mental problems and the ADs don't help with her libido. After all these years it's soul destroying, but sex was the glue which kept us together. That's gone and the deep connection too. No option for me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I would suggest marriage counselling to find out why this had happened, and would make sure we talked a lot about what was going on, but I would not end the marriage.


But what if you found the (fixable) root of the problem and your husband didn't want to fix it? Would still be with your husband?


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## Rejectedliver (Jan 1, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not going to speak for Charlie Parker but will add my own perspective.
> 
> decreased libido from age/health/menopause is not synonymous with not wanting to have a marital sex life with someone.
> 
> ...


You say that would be s different story if that was the case what would u do ??


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> But what if you found the (fixable) root of the problem and your husband didn't want to fix it? Would still be with your husband?


Very relevant question. 

There is not much i would not be willing to do for my wife. But, i won't do anything for her if she is not willing to do what i want or need from her.

Ill give her my life if she will give me what i want and need. Why? Because ill have what i want and need. Ill be happy. 

If someone is unwilling to do something for their partner, then what leg do they have to stand on when their partner reflects the sentiment?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rejectedliver said:


> You say that would be s different story if that was the case what would u do ??


Initiate a fair and cooperative divorce and seek a partner(s) that did want to have a love and sex life.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

My bf was stuck in that mode for the last two years of his first marriage. She would only agree to sex, if he cleaned, cooked, bought her little baubles, then she would "allow" sex. She was a SAHW (kids? she did not want to lose her figure) She made every one of my alarm bells go off. I did not bother asking him, I had a PI who owed me one or two. He took up video surveillance of their front door. So we waited. The PI and I reviewed tapes (this is going back to the early 90's) Wouldn't you know, neighbor across the hall is a chef, single, and works nights. At 10 in the morning, several times a week, he would go across the hall, stay for an hour or so, then go back to his place. We played the tapes. My bf admitted, that the last time his wife was intimate with him was months ago...

She arrived home to an empty apartment, except for a video playing on a small monitor in a continuous loop, (one of my signature moves) him knocking on the door, her letting him in, and him leaving. Playing over and over and over. Mr Chef did not fare well either. Turned out that my bf worked with a stockbroker who owned a piece of the restaurant where Mr Chef worked. He was blacklisted, and he is a short order cook at a greasy spoon. (he was pulling down six figures as a haute cuisine chef, now nobody wants him). She tried mightily to blackmail him into coming back to her. He responded by telling every one of her girlfriends, her family, and all of his, what she was up to. She threatened to sue him, and he said, that is so great, I really want to play the tapes of him coming over every day for coffee and c*nt. She shut up, and went away. Heard that she bamboozled another guy into marrying her, only for him to walk months later. Sex in marriage is not a bargaining chip. If it is to be purchased, within the confines of a marriage, then it is better to find it elsewhere instead of treating it as currency.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Taxman said:


> Sex in marriage is not a bargaining chip. If it is to be purchased, within the confines of a marriage, then it is better to find it elsewhere instead of treating it as currency.


Not only was your story great, as usual, but this is such a great point. 

I have a next door neighbor, whose wife, told my ex, that when she wants something special, a purse or whatever...

She takes the catalog, with price and pictures, circles it and lays it on his bedside table. That is the sign that he can have sex with her, but of course, he has to buy her the purse... 

I never really liked her or him, but I did not talk to him afterward, I was afraid I would catch some strange disease or something.

Can you even imagine???


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## bikermehound (Mar 24, 2017)

is that what you presented to here and what was her responces

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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> She takes the catalog, with price and pictures, circles it and lays it on his bedside table. That is the sign that he can have sex with her, but of course, he has to buy her the purse...


That actually makes hookers sound attractive, and I'm guessing less expensive.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> There are many threads here and on other boards about sexless marriages. But without naming names, there is only one thread I am aware of where the denying spouse has declared openly that they no longer want any sex at all with their spouse.
> 
> It seems in the vast majority of cases, the denier at least implies that they would be agreeable to sex if they happen to find themselves in the mood or if the stars are all aligned perfectly or if the denied party were to jump through all 10,000 hoops and hurdles rub their bellies and pat their heads while blowing bubbles and singing the national anthem at the same time.
> 
> ...


Yeah, barring a medical reason, if my spouse declared that sex was over in the marriage, either the marriage would be over or an agreement would have to be declared in writing that other options were agreed upon by both people in the marriage...whatever those parameters of agreement would be for that couple. 

I do know of some in the swingers lifestyle who have made agreements with their spouses on parameters for taking on lovers within the lifestyle. Interesting people, selfless people and successful marriages at least for those who were willing to share their stories. 

For me, personally, I got out of a marriage where, although there was no declaration, the sex was sparse for too long despite clear communication of needs and unkept promises to improve. Never regretted leaving the relationship.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> Not only was your story great, as usual, but this is such a great point.
> 
> I have a next door neighbor, whose wife, told my ex, that when she wants something special, a purse or whatever...
> 
> ...


I would have sex with her, and then state that it wasn't worth the price of admission. I would say to her, you want the purse, supply me with someone who I actually want to have sex with. (My bf had a first wife like this, and he did tell her that since she treated sex like currency, that she would have to step up the sex, because frankly, she was not worth the gifts he had to purchase.) He is remarried, she has remained divorced and alone for 30 years. Her attitude precedes her. Plus, as I am a nasty person, I really understand why, self-abuse would be preferable to his ex.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Taxman said:


> I would have sex with her, and then state that it wasn't worth the price of admission. I would say to her, you want the purse, supply me with someone who I actually want to have sex with. (My bf had a first wife like this, and he did tell her that since she treated sex like currency, that she would have to step up the sex, because frankly, she was not worth the gifts he had to purchase.) He is remarried, she has remained divorced and alone for 30 years. Her attitude precedes her. Plus, as I am a nasty person, I really understand why, self-abuse would be preferable to his ex.


I have never been that hard up, and I know you are joking... 

But for me, when ex told me what his wife said, wow, I cannot EVEN get there no matter what. 

What kind of a man would for one minute accept that and be married to her as well.

But I am sure you have seen some weird **** in your line of work...


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

But it also contains the "pity sex" or "dutiful sex"....

I have mentioned plenty of times of my view of "planking". Where she wishes she was anywhere else but there in the bed....Forget that! That just turns into a masterbatory experience and not a sexual bonding between partners!

I had one girlfriend that did that, and that was the end of her being my girlfriend. She ACTUALLY turned her head to the side and told me to hury up and finish....

I went to a topless bar after that. I had to "re-claim" myself or whatever after that experience. lol


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## bikermehound (Mar 24, 2017)

i don't agree with that at all ,iwas not brought up like that i was raised a Catholic 

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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

The Refusing Spouse usually engages in all sorts of lies to keep the denied spouse on board and in the marriage. 

If the Refuser was to outright come out and say our sex life is done, you are never getting laid by me again the most obvious result would be the Refused Party would have a Volcanic Reaction, blow up the marital assets through Divorce and the cosy way of life the Refuser has become used to would end.

If however the Refuser dangled a small carrot of hope the Refused Spouse who naturally wants to believe that their marriage is not dead will automatically jump through hoops at the belief he/she will get more sex at a later point. This all buys time and continues the cosy way of life the Refuser currently has.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Sports Fan said:


> The Refusing Spouse usually engages in all sorts of lies to keep the denied spouse on board and in the marriage.
> 
> If the Refuser was to outright come out and say our sex life is done, you are never getting laid by me again the most obvious result would be the Refused Party would have a Volcanic Reaction, blow up the marital assets through Divorce and the cosy way of life the Refuser has become used to would end.
> 
> If however the Refuser dangled a small carrot of hope the Refused Spouse who naturally wants to believe that their marriage is not dead will automatically jump through hoops at the belief he/she will get more sex at a later point. This all buys time and continues the cosy way of life the Refuser currently has.


 You speak a profound truth that will not be accepted by those whose toes this truth steps on.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

While you both are correct in some instances, there other instances where ego protection by the high drive spouse becomes more important than actually hearing what's wrong.

Case in point: a couple of years ago, a poster on this form came here complaining about his marriage being sexless. He was here two months before he shared the detail that he was a hundred pounds heavier than when he first married his wife.

Disclosing that detail would have immediately removed a significant portion of his ability to sit in the victim chair.

Ego.

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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sports Fan said:


> The Refusing Spouse usually engages in all sorts of lies to keep the denied spouse on board and in the marriage.
> 
> If the Refuser was to outright come out and say our sex life is done, you are never getting laid by me again the most obvious result would be the Refused Party would have a Volcanic Reaction, blow up the marital assets through Divorce and the cosy way of life the Refuser has become used to would end.
> 
> If however the Refuser dangled a small carrot of hope the Refused Spouse who naturally wants to believe that their marriage is not dead will automatically jump through hoops at the belief he/she will get more sex at a later point. This all buys time and continues the cosy way of life the Refuser currently has.


Ok I’m not denying that there are horrible husbands and wives who are refusers. There definitely are.

But the scenario you paint above isn’t reflecting what most households are like these days. Most households are not one income. Most are 2. And in many cases there’s not a big difference between their incomes. Also we have cases like @uhtred whose wife is independently wealthy. She certainly isn’t afraid of him upsetting her lifestyle.

Refusers are *******s. They have different reasons for being *******s. They are usually not in love with their spouse, that’s one thing. They are usually not self aware, that’s another thing. And they are usually clueless about the actual state of their relationship. These are common factors, but they each have their individual thing. That’s still talking about refusers.

Sometimes people say “well what if he just refused to go to work”. Um, first of all, some men do refuse to go to work. Second of all, how is someone’s willingness to support themselves in need of a prize? Remember, most households don’t just have daddy working.

There are reasons other than just being an ******* refuser to not want sex. And sometimes that reason is because your spouse isn’t sexy to you at all anymore. If you have tried to change the problem and they “refuse” to do anything differently, then I say that’s the ******* refuser.

This applies to the husband or the wife. If he or she just does not turn you on and you ask him or her to help work on that, and they refuse....what next?

There is the implication that the one who wants more sex is totally sexy and doing everything right to keep their partner interested in them. But that’s not always the case. Sometimes people want sex but they don’t want to get sexy for you or learn you, both men and women are guilty of this.

Again....******* refusers who are punishing and just using you, **** them. (POI your ex was clearly a refuser).

But there’s a whole lot of other people having issues. It’s not all the same story.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> You speak a profound truth that will not be accepted by those whose toes this truth steps on.


I don’t think anyone who is just a straight refusing ******* themselves is posting here? Everyone on this thread seems to be into sex. Some here have spouses who are refusers or LD.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

As @Faithful Wife said, there are a lot of different scenarios, its very difficult to try to simplify them into nice simple rules.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I wasn't defending myself, I was simply using my perspective as a firsthand example.
> 
> I'm not saying I that I have zero insecurities as we all have our own individual baggage and challenges. I am saying that just because someone is HD that does not automatically mean they are insecure or that their motivations and behaviors are being driven by insecurity.
> 
> ...


Your thread title indicates a declaration of one partner no longer wanting sex which implies that sexual intimacy was at some point functional or at least perceived by one partner as being healthy and compatible. 

...now given that all relationship go through seasons. A new couple generally tends to enjoy a honeymoon phase before the realities and hardships of life set in and create struggles. Moderators here often cite "harbored resentment" as the most common cause for one partner to experience libido changes. It is so easy for resentment to build as the realities of life make things almost unbearably challenging. So it is common in relationships (in my opinion) for a partner to declare that he/she no longer wants sex or has reached a state of zero libido in the relationship. 

Now does that qualify as no longer being sexually compatible? I would argue that staying together and working through such a difficulty comes more from a place of loyalty. Perhaps as you mentioned the insecurities of being unwanted by anyone else can creep in for those struggling with low self esteem during this struggle (which also fuels emotional affairs with friends willing to listen). But I see loyalty as a form of self confidence as well as self discipline. It is what is needed to get through challenging times and work together in relationships to better learn how to love and care for each other.

People that believe strongly otherwise tend to come across as, "put out or get out!" I do however agree that relationships need to maintain some basic form of at least "maintenance intimacy" during challenging times as opposed to one partner completely shutting down all forms of touch and closeness unilaterally. This is the reason some therapists recommend trying to schedule intimacy, even if it is nonsexual such as a back rub as a way to try and reestablish intimacy as a place of healing and comfort in relationships.

Regards,
Badsanta


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

It’s a slow march to unilaterally declaring that part of your relationship is over with culpability on both sides. If one partner is not offering something worth desiring (re: the HD) that’s one thing but unilaterally cutting someone off from something only they can get from you is like setting off a WMD. Especially if they haven’t exhausted all options outside extenuating circumstances (e.g. paralysis). It’s like breaking up with someone but wanting to stay friends. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

If a breadwinner decided they just didn’t want to work anymore but want everything else in the relationship to be stay the same their partner who relies on the income would be really put in a very uncomfortable position and probably really resentful. You either want to willingly meet a partner’s or not. 


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Your thread title indicates a declaration of one partner no longer wanting sex which implies that sexual intimacy was at some point functional or at least perceived by one partner as being healthy and compatible.
> 
> ...now given that all relationship go through seasons. A new couple generally tends to enjoy a honeymoon phase before the realities and hardships of life set in and create struggles. Moderators here often cite "harbored resentment" as the most common cause for one partner to experience libido changes. It is so easy for resentment to build as the realities of life make things almost unbearably challenging. So it is common in relationships (in my opinion) for a partner to declare that he/she no longer wants sex or has reached a state of zero libido in the relationship.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I completely getting your point. 

I do not consider one partner declaring the end of the sexual component of the relationship a "season."

I consider it tantamount to ending the marriage or the relationship as a primary relationship (assuming of course the players are not 80+ years old or something)

As romance/sexuality are what separates the marriage/primary relationship from all others , I see ending the sexual component as essentially dissolving the relationship as a functional marriage.

In short - I see it as a break up.

If the dumper wants to remain under the roof, it is because they want a paycheck or a maid or a babysitter or something.

I don't see that as something to be "worked through." I see that as a dumping and an end of the relationship.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> If the dumper wants to remain under the roof, it is because they want a paycheck or a maid or a babysitter or *something*.


Or they don't know what thy want... they just don't want sex... :smile2:


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Or they don't know what thy want... they just don't want sex... :smile2:


I don't believe that they don't know what they want. I think they know fully well, they just don't want to tell you.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Instead of “season” more like end of the second act of a play. Act 1: NRE and make kids sex Act 2: Sex is OK but losing interest Act 3: Sex is repulsive Act 4:????

In terms of vows this is the ‘sickness’ part and ‘worse’ part. There’s a physical and emotional component. In terms of emotional, if you refuse to engage and unilaterally shutdown your partner’s #1 means of gaining intimacy and give them another outlet that is not true love its extortion or emotional abuse. She is basically saying... nope... not interested in meeting our needs as a couple. If you haven’t already MC is a must.

There’s a lot of leverage the partner not wanting sex has until they don’t. She has a standard of living she enjoys, no social stigma of being a divorceé, companion so she’s not lonely. Not to mention the workload of divorcing. One of my favorite truisms is sometimes you have to be prepared to shoot the hostage. Its not an “us” problem. She made it your problem. Unless you decide to name it hers. Of course if there’s too much resentment she may see divorce as liberating. But again that wouldn’t be your problem. Also she’d be embarrassed if her friends and family found out that was the reason for the split. Again please seek MC if you haven’t already.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not sure I completely getting your point.
> 
> I do not consider one partner declaring the end of the sexual component of the relationship a "season."
> 
> ...


The problem here is the same as the others. 

Like @oldshirt said, it is not a season, unless you are 80 and literally cannot get it up or actually, physically have sex in any position.... It is the end of the relationship... Well at least it is for me... 

One small example, GF said that she is worried about one of her implants on her front tooth, because her mouth is to small for oral and she is afraid it will break or get too loose. 

I looked at her and said, with a complete lack of humor, "OK, give me your dentists number and I will make the appointment and pay the bill, because that is not going to happen, I will get it fixed..." 

In all honesty, my member is not really the reason the tooth got a little loose, one of her students bucked his head and hit her in the mouth... 

Point being, if there is an issue that affects sex, we will get it fixed... But then again I am a pervert and an overly demand male that likes sex too much, or some people think that...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not sure I completely getting your point.
> 
> I do not consider one partner declaring the end of the sexual component of the relationship a "season."
> 
> ...


This is true for many. But not for all. I wonder if the LD people would agree with this. I doubt it. I wonder if they even knew that is the expectation of the person they married. 

For US, sex is an important part of our relationship. We knew this going in. But it is not the only one, nor even really the most important. For us, we are a FAMILY, DH, myself, our kids. While there would be a different family if we ever divorced, that is not the goal we are aiming at within our marriage. I wonder how many other people feel/think this way ... at odds to the supposedly obvious thinking that sex IS marriage to so many on SIM.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> This is true for many. But not for all. I wonder if the LD people would agree with this. I doubt it. I wonder if they even knew that is the expectation of the person they married.
> 
> For US, sex is an important part of our relationship. We knew this going in. But it is not the only one, nor even really the most important. For us, we are a FAMILY, DH, myself, our kids. While there would be a different family if we ever divorced, that is not the goal we are aiming at within our marriage. I wonder how many other people feel/think this way ... at odds to the supposedly obvious thinking that sex IS marriage to so many on SIM.


Lots of us have gone around and around about this point. 
@oldshirt, nor myself, are not saying that sex is the most important part of a romantic relationship. Not at all.

The sticking point is that, I know I am for sure, we are saying that SEX is PART of a romantic relationship and without it, there is no romantic relationship. 

I know that this is hard for some people to get, lots of people would say that if you were no longer able to have sex I would still love you... OK thanks, I would love you too, but we are not talking about health issues, or something like that...

We are talking about people that can have sex, in a romantic relationship/marriage and don't want to any longer. 

I that case, game over, have a great life, but I am not interested in that...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> Lots of us have gone around and around about this point.
> 
> @oldshirt, nor myself, are not saying that sex is the most important part of a romantic relationship. Not at all.


I am pretty sure it is oldshirt that has said sex IS marriage. But maybe not. I KNOW it has been said on this board many times.



> The sticking point is that, I know I am for sure, we are saying that SEX is PART of a romantic relationship and without it, there is no romantic relationship.
> 
> I know that this is hard for some people to get, lots of people would say that if you were no longer able to have sex I would still love you... OK thanks, I would love you too, but we are not talking about health issues, or something like that...


It is not about GETTING. Not everyone would AGREE with that. 



> We are talking about people that can have sex, in a romantic relationship/marriage and don't want to any longer.
> 
> I that case, game over, have a great life, but I am not interested in that...


Yah sure. Make your own life. I don't know if anyone would argue about that. But that some people have a different focus is completely ignored, or worse, treated as evil ne'er do wells.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> In Absentia said:
> 
> 
> > Or they don't know what thy want... they just don't want sex... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
> ...


I agree


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I agree


I guess in any case, it wasn't either of you guys. I mean, what could they say at that point?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I think the point is that sex is what distinguishes romantic relationships from friendships. Some people are content to be "just friends" with their spouse. Many married people expect to be lovers / romantic partners and not just a particularly close friend to their spouse.

If you are married to someone who wants their spouse to be their lover, and you only want to be their close friend, then you don't want to be their spouse. Or at least they shouldn't want you to continue to be their spouse.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Holdingontoit said:


> I think the point is that sex is what distinguishes romantic relationships from friendships. Some people are content to be "just friends" with their spouse. Many married people expect to be lovers / romantic partners and not just a particularly close friend to their spouse.
> 
> If you are married to someone who wants their spouse to be their lover, and you only want to be their close friend, then you don't want to be their spouse. Or at least they shouldn't want you to continue to be their spouse.


Exactly. It's not hard to understand.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

NobodySpecial said:


> I am pretty sure it is oldshirt that has said sex IS marriage. But maybe not. I KNOW it has been said on this board many times.
> 
> 
> .


I'm not saying sex IS marriage. Marriage is many things, much of it legal and social as well as religious for some folks. 

But for someone who wants to have an active sex life, it is a critical component without which the marriage loses it's special status and becomes just another roommate agreement. 

Sometimes both parties have no interest in sex but want the other benefits of marriage and that is great for them. 

It wouldn't work for me though. I would not be able to have any kind of exclusive, committed relationship without it. 

And frankly, I don't even see health issues or disabilities as changing that. quadriplegics have sex. Cancer patients have sex. Burn victims and trauma victims have sex. 

Sure, they may not have pile driving PIV sex if they are unable to do so, but where there is a will there is a way and there are alternative things that can be done. 

About the only thing that can not be worked with is not wanting to and saying no.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> It wouldn't work for me though. I would not be able to have any kind of exclusive, committed relationship without it.



it doesn't work for me either, so we are divorcing... I love my wife, but having a roommate is not enough for me. It's a real shame, but we all make our own decisions (and take the consequences).


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It's nothing more than a cheap way for the "dumping spouse" to self-servingly lay waste to the marital relationship, in order to get out of their spousal duties!

In essence, it allows them to become "single" again! 

Just ask my RSXW how it works ~ she'll tell you!*


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