# Confessions from LD dudes.



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I think I have to admit it, I'm LD. I am quite satisfied with sex with my GF every other week. When we make love it is mind-blowing and satisfies that deep longing, but I tend to stay satisfied with it for quite a while. It's not like having it twice as often would bring any additional fulfillment. I do need physical touch and quality time much more frequently than sex. Often we will find time for it more frequently, even went two days in a row last week, and it was good, but certainly not necessary. My GF is OK with less frequent lovemaking but I think for her two weeks is too long, but generally I am usually way too depleted to initiate all that often. If she initiates I am keen to please, but I often lack any kind of stamina (I don't mean PE, but just lose interest and after a short time will just turn to cuddling and falling asleep).

From what I've read on here, according to all you other guys, this is not normal for a healthy man in a healthy relationship.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm perpetually horny, and lust for women all the time, including my GF, I'm just not up to the performance all that often, for some reason the reward isn't incentive enough for the effort. When we're apart during the week, or in the midst of her shifts, I will sometimes take care of myself daily or multiple times, or else sometimes abstain for a long while, no rhyme or reason to it. 

I've been this way my entire life, was not really good at getting sex in my single years, when in relationships largely refrained from intercourse for fear of unwanted pregnancy, also perhaps a little bit of protestant guilt (though I've tried shedding any of those damaging religious upbringings). Bringing this up in counselling isn't something I've not really delved into.

If I'd had attractive women throwing themselves at me I would probably be in an entirely different situation, but i just don't think that would have ever been my style. I have passion, but it's not burning intense, it's deeper and more tantric. When I read about other LD guys, I wonder how many just have a different style of making love than what the typical man's man has with women?

I wonder how alone I am in my ways?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So you are lazy or actually need to delay sex to make it decent enough to even bother?

How old is she? If she goes through the mid-life surge, then what? I think it is dangerous for you not to take her concern about frequency more seriously. Lazy in fact. How much do you want her to be your GF?

My feeling about sexual excitement is that if you don't strive to make it you will lose interest. Losing interest will erode the relationship eventually because how important a part release is to bonding. Use it or lose it.

I wonder how attracted you are to your GF. since you suggested an alternate reality that involves attractive women I wonder if you have settled and are content rather than that you are truly LD.

If you are happy then that's great and I totally approve. But the dichotomy you set up makes me wonder how much is natural and how much is just acceptance that it will never be more worthwhile for you to bother. And how your attitude affects your girlfriend's self concept might chime back to bite you eventually.

Women get concerned when their men are way below average as you are with desire. They feel undesirable and it only gets worse with age.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I know that LD comes across as lack of desire, but I'm trying to understand it better. I've talked about this with her, to a moderate extent, and of all the women in the world I think she actually has the self confidence to know that my level of sexual desire is not at all related to her self worth. We both are with each other because we like being with each other. We are both attracted to each other as a whole, and know that neither of us have perfect bodies or perfect minds by any means, but we appreciate sharing our experiences together. I think she is absolutely gorgeous, and I know she finds me attractive, but it would be unrealistic to expect her to have the it factor a young fitness model has, or me to have the it factor a muscular Latino would have for her.

Both of us tend to be a little lazy, we enjoy relaxation. However we both are open to, and even exploring ways to enhance each of our libidos (exercise, diet, herbs and supplements and more sex, but we don't want to force anything either since it is a high need for each of us to be genuine).


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Whatever drive you have is cool, as long as you're meeting your SO's needs.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Are you that lazy or not being honest and not really horny? To be honest (and not trying to insult) but you sound like most LD women. Claim to be horny often, but meh, every couple weeks and Im good.

And to be honest again I wouldnt mind being like you. Make it a hell of lot easier with the wife's LD.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So you are both out of shape? Fat in men lowers testosterone from what I hear.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

If you are in decent health, I think you may be dealing with depression. It probably would be a good idea to have your T levels checked. The only thing is, you are under forty. Aren't you? Have you ever had heart trouble or anything like that?

If depression is ruled out after your physical health is checked, I think I would go for the gold and try to find someone that you find more attractive. Please, let me qualify that. I have talked, just talked in a normal setting, with women who I've found myself attracted to. They weren't necessarily beautiful. They weren't ugly, either. 

In a few cases, I felt something very strong. I mean, I had a hard time hearing what they were talking about. All I could think of was sex. I would have to force myself to concentrate. I wonder if you have ever felt that with a woman you've only just met and talked with? Maybe you need to date and look for that kind of a woman?

Maybe after you find that woman or women, you can be concerned with her personality, and how well you mesh with her. I don't think that is rude or hurtful. I don't think it is mean. We all have to start somewhere. Strong attraction is not a bad place to start.

I wonder if you give yourself enough credit? I wonder if you believe you deserve that kind of happiness? You do, actually. Just in case you weren't sure. 

In any case, I'd start with your physical health including circulatory system and T levels. Then check your mental health. You deserve more.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

We are in a weird place because he says he is happy. 

How long have you been together and are you thinking about marriage? 

To me this seems to be an unrecognized problem rather than just the way it is. But I have to question whether I'm being half empty rather than half full if he is happy. Since he said she isn't as thrilled with the frequency I'm going to give the edge to half empty.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I am dealing with depression, I think most of it stems from regret of not having more experience when I was younger, regret that my marriage failed etc. I'm not fat, but I'm skinny fat due to a decade of working in a cubicle, a career I've followed due to the ability to provide for my son and simultaneously be a part of his life growing up. 

Dating around is not a solution for me, because I've found a woman that meshes very well, albeit differently than I would have envisioned earlier on in life. She went through a depression too, after a serious lower back injury a few years before we started dating (but after I knew her already). I was helping her clean out her garage (the actual one, lol) and she found a pair of old yoga pants, and I'll admit for a second my mind went straight to thinking how much I would have wanted her when she fit into those. She is saddenned and frustrated by her injury because she spends so much time and energy exercising and stretching and planning her healthy diet just to actually function with as minimal pain throughout the day as possible, progress towards her fitness goals is slow going, but aside from her injury and the effects it has on her fitness she takes tremendous care of herself, looks, fashion etc. She has rows upon rows of sexy high heels that she can't go out in, but wants to.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So you have settled.

Dont call it LD. Call it a lifestyle choice.

You also suggest that she doesn't let this bother her but then go on to describe her injury and pain. Darling you are being blind to a very painful thing for her. If you dint think your low desire because of lack of physical attraction didn't bother her you must be blind.

Half empty just got a bigger bump.

My ex H was skinny fat. Yo can fix that.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> We are in a weird place because he says he is happy.
> 
> How long have you been together and are you thinking about marriage?
> 
> To me this seems to be an unrecognized problem rather than just the way it is. But I have to question whether I'm being half empty rather than half full if he is happy. Since he said she isn't as thrilled with the frequency I'm going to give the edge to half empty.


I read it as Lon being content not to try any harder or look for more because he has a past that says he will not get what he wants anyway. 

Sorry for addressing cc2, Lon. Could this possibly be the case?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



clipclop2 said:


> We are in a weird place because he says he is happy.
> 
> How long have you been together and are you thinking about marriage?
> 
> To me this seems to be an unrecognized problem rather than just the way it is. But I have to question whether I'm being half empty rather than half full if he is happy. Since he said she isn't as thrilled with the frequency I'm going to give the edge to half empty.


I never said she was unthrilled with the frequency, it's just that I know if it's been awhile she sometimes asks me why it has been so long. And we always have a rational and reasonable explanation. She has never once pressured me to initiate more often, and never expressed dissatisfaction. When we first got sexual she was quite emotional about it because it had been a few years, she'd just come out of a relationship that had become sexless after her injury. Her and I don't take for granted each and every time we are together. I think we both are thinking why should we be unsatisfied? I think we both are satisfied, but we still both lust and please ourselves individually.

We've been together a year and a half, marriage is not on my to do list ever, but a committed relationship is, we may even have some kind of ceremony in the future, make vows, but certainly not inviting the government into our relationship. We live separately and there isn't really any compelling reason for us to change that, though financial benefit would be there. I have a 7 year old son and her 22 year old daughter, that just had a baby, may be moving back home for awhile... So there are some FOO issues, her parents know me well and respect me, my mother treats her horribly but my GF and dad get along very well.

I love having her in my life, and she me, we've supported each other through quite a lot already. I don't know where it's going, but I guess I'm doubtful that my sexual desire is going to change much, certainly not increase. My sexual pleasure with her though, I think will only keep getting better and better.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

And who is it that makes you think you have to have had the experiences they had in the past?

I didn't have many either. Sometimes I think about it, but I don't really regret it. I try to put it out of my head. I find that there are lots of people searching for something they cannot find. Some or many think they can find it through sex with as many partners as they can.

I have always been the type who wants to feel the desire, but has at least a few things that I find attractive in the woman's personality. That's where I start. I think some of my, well, I know some of my reluctance is based in fear, some in depression, some in my lack of money, some in my history which I think puts me out of the chase in many cases that I would be interested in pursuing, some in my desire to find love rather than just sex. 

Wow, that was a heck of a run-on sentence. I apologize. 

Some of it for me is based in the delusion that the woman I divorced loved me and just has the wrong information about me and it would all change. Yeah, right, no I don't really believe that, but I sure want to believe. 

So, I'm going to work through all of those. I may be dead before I have sex again. Do you relate to any of that? 

If so, please talk with your counselor in detail. Also, please don't sell yourself short. You do yourself and the woman you love a disservice. She wants more. If you can't give it, that's alright. It's better than fooling yourself and thereby her, too.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I didn't mean more sex, when I wrote she wants more. She wants to be desired. She wants you to need her to satisfy you. 

That's so foreign to me because so many here say it's not good to need someone, but the only way a woman seems to be satisfied in that area, is when she is looked at as the only one that can satisfy her man's sexual desire. Odd for me to comprehend.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I read it as Lon being content not to try any harder or look for more because he has a past that says he will not get what he wants anyway.
> 
> Sorry for addressing cc2, Lon. Could this possibly be the case?


I meant that what I have always thought I wanted, and what I actually want are not the same thing. Maybe at one point in time, in youth, I thought I'd get... "more" but after not getting more for so long it becomes a feeling of sadness, no matter at what amazing blessings one has. It's not for lack of trying, not for being lazy, or needing to look harder. It's about me maturing and realizing that I can't really do anything with more anyway, I have more than enough, I have everything I need AND want right now, its about accepting that as good, and not allowing others to tell me its deficient.

I love sex, and I love sex with my GF. There is nothing in the universe more satisfying. We don't do it like rabbits (well some nights its like that) but I guess our styles are just a lot different than what most other people think of as ideal.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I can see I may have really misunderstood what you were saying. I apologize. 

I still think you may be accepting something less than what she wants. That's for you two to determine. I guess acceptance is what you are proclaiming. If you both are satisfied with what you have, there is no problem. If either of you is questioning things, you may need to talk.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Please don't underestimate how difficult it is for a HD person with a LD partner. I don't know if that is going on here, but the rejection can lead to resentment and a withdraw: "OK, I don't want it anyway". It can poison an otherwise happy relationship. It is a BIG deal. 

If she is also LD and is happy with your sex life, then that is absolutely fine.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



2ntnuf said:


> I can see I may have really misunderstood what you were saying. I apologize.
> 
> I still think you may be accepting something less than what she wants. That's for you two to determine. I guess acceptance is what you are proclaiming. If you both are satisfied with what you have, there is no problem. If either of you is questioning things, you may need to talk.


Yeah, if we find each other wanting, and having, more sex that is fine too. It's just that I read on TAM about the HD and LD, and often wonder what I'm doing wrong. But half of what we talk about is sex and most everything we do together leads to sex, for a relationship that is by all means LD from both sides, it sure is highly sexual.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Doing wrong? Maybe forgetting to take it with a grain of salt?


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## Jakobi Greenleaf (Sep 19, 2012)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



Lon said:


> Yeah, if we find each other wanting, and having, more sex that is fine too. It's just that I read on TAM about the HD and LD, and often wonder what I'm doing wrong. But half of what we talk about is sex and most everything we do together leads to sex, for a relationship that is by all means LD from both sides, it sure is highly sexual.


HD and LD are relative. Compared to other guys you are LD, but as you aren't sleeping with them it doesn't matter. All that matters is how well your desire lines up with your girlfriends level of desire. If you have sex once a year and both of you are happy with it, who cares about what society at large thinks. Same thing if you are going at it twice a day every day. All that matters is that both of you are happy with what is going on.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'll say the same thing to you that I would to any LD woman. Not wanting sex often is fine. There is NOTHING wrong with that. But if your significant other wants, needs, or expects more...there's something wrong with it.


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## Finder (Aug 12, 2014)

So, you're LD because you're unhealthy physically/mentally. You don't find that a problem?
I'm somewhat LD myself right now because of health issues but I'm working on it and getting better now. BTW, when I say somewhat LD I mean doing it 2-3 times a week.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Finder said:


> So, you're LD because you're unhealthy physically/mentally. You don't find that a problem?
> I'm somewhat LD myself right now because of health issues but I'm working on it and getting better now. BTW, when I say somewhat LD I mean doing it 2-3 times a week.


2-3 times weekly is not the outcome of LD. But like Jakobi said above its all relative. I think the same can be said of physical and mental fitness, and in which regards I'm above average for my demographic, far from perfect, but who is.

I guess I'm wondering if frequency for me has more to do with my style or approach, and all the other factors in my life. Even though I've said in the past my ideal frequency would be 2-3 times a week, but honestly I couldn't keep pace with more than once a week (twice maybe if its a weekend and I didn't have custody of my son that week). A session results in needing atleast 3 days to get back on track with all the other things I need to take care of (sleep, domestic chores, parenting etc). It's easy enough to get myself off multiple times daily if I wanted, which I sometimes do, but it gets boring quickly, and with a partner it just seems so much more complicated but worth the effort when we can fit it in (pun intended).


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Wait a minute... Back the climax truck up. 

You're spanking the monkey, but you only want sex with her once every two weeks? Why?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Finder (Aug 12, 2014)

Lon said:


> 2-3 times weekly is not the outcome of LD. But like Jakobi said above its all relative. I think the same can be said of physical and mental fitness, and in which regards I'm above average for my demographic, far from perfect, but who is.
> 
> I guess I'm wondering if frequency for me has more to do with my style or approach, and all the other factors in my life. Even though I've said in the past my ideal frequency would be 2-3 times a week, but honestly I couldn't keep pace with more than once a week (twice maybe if its a weekend and I didn't have custody of my son that week). A session results in needing atleast 3 days to get back on track with all the other things I need to take care of (sleep, domestic chores, parenting etc). It's easy enough to get myself off multiple times daily if I wanted, which I sometimes do, but it gets boring quickly, and with a partner it just seems so much more complicated but worth the effort when we can fit it in (pun intended).


You said you suffer from depression. I'd see that as a major problem, not something that you should just live with everyday.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



Finder said:


> You said you suffer from depression. I'd see that as a major problem, not something that you should just live with everyday.


It's not exactly something that can be willed away. Nor medicated away. For everyone that lives with some level of depression yes it's a problem but it IS something you have to live with everyday. Just as all of us have to cope with some issue or another. Doesnt mean I'm a victim to it or that it defines me, just another small piece in the overall picture.

So a genuine question, if you are somewhat LD and are having sex with you W that often, and you say you want to "improve" that... How do you find the time? What would your daily routine be? What do you give up on in order to make the time? Life is about priorities, so if sex becomes #1, what gets relegated to #2?


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Do you live together? Is it a desire thing or a scheduling thing? I mean, I help myself a couple of times a day for sure, but I don't live with my BF so actual sex is highly dependent on schedules....


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



COGypsy said:


> Do you live together? Is it a desire thing or a scheduling thing? I mean, I help myself a couple of times a day for sure, but I don't live with my BF so actual sex is highly dependent on schedules....


No we don't live together, and absolutely it depends on schedules, but the thing is even when we have scheduled time together there are still many things we each still need to take care of so we help each other out as much as possible. Sex sometimes happens but not always, we both enjoy the quality time together, and usually we juggle around our shared priorities together somewhat spontaneously. Sex is a high priority, but often it's not number 1. Sometimes it is. We just kind of take it as we can get it. Because of our differing work schedules, I'm usually zonked by 11pm and she'll be awake all night. And during the day I'll be wide awake and frisky, but she'll be zonked after coming out of night shifts. So more often than not we share the bed together, have a groggy one way conversation, make out for a little then one or the other passes out cold. Neither of us start anything we're not sure we can finish out of respect for each others energy level. When we choose to make love it means one of us or the other has to sacrifice sleep, and it also means one of us is overtired during our session so we usually take turns on the giving depending on whom is the one more tired.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Lon said:


> No we don't live together, and absolutely it depends on schedules, but the thing is even when we have scheduled time together there are still many things we each still need to take care of so we help each other out as much as possible. Sex sometimes happens but not always, we both enjoy the quality time together, and usually we juggle around our shared priorities together somewhat spontaneously. Sex is a high priority, but often it's not number 1. Sometimes it is. We just kind of take it as we can get it. Because of our differing work schedules, I'm usually zonked by 11pm and she'll be awake all night. And during the day I'll be wide awake and frisky, but she'll be zonked after coming out of night shifts. So more often than not we share the bed together, have a groggy one way conversation, make out for a little then one or the other passes out cold. Neither of us start anything we're not sure we can finish out of respect for each others energy level. When we choose to make love it means one of us or the other has to sacrifice sleep, and it also means one of us is overtired during our session so we usually take turns on the giving depending on whom is the one more tired.


So then to me, that makes a lot more sense. I would call myself HD any way you put it, but that sounds a lot more like the kind of balancing that happens in my relationship too. The spirit is willing, but the schedules are weak.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



COGypsy said:


> So then to me, that makes a lot more sense. I would call myself HD any way you put it, but that sounds a lot more like the kind of balancing that happens in my relationship too. The spirit is willing, but the schedules are weak.


Yes the spirit is strong for sure, but to the point where imagination overtakes reality I think.


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## Finder (Aug 12, 2014)

Lon said:


> It's not exactly something that can be willed away. Nor medicated away. For everyone that lives with some level of depression yes it's a problem but it IS something you have to live with everyday. Just as all of us have to cope with some issue or another. Doesnt mean I'm a victim to it or that it defines me, just another small piece in the overall picture.
> 
> So a genuine question, if you are somewhat LD and are having sex with you W that often, and you say you want to "improve" that... How do you find the time? What would your daily routine be? What do you give up on in order to make the time? Life is about priorities, so if sex becomes #1, what gets relegated to #2?


Right now I'm suffering from a thyroid/hormone problem and I'm taking medication for it, so naturally my libido should increase (hopefully).
It doesn't usually take that much time out of the day 30-40 minutes is usually more than enough. So, when I get healthier instead of sitting there being tired all the time I'll be using that time for "activities".


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

PBear said:


> Wait a minute... Back the climax truck up.
> 
> You're spanking the monkey, but you only want sex with her once every two weeks? Why?
> C


This was my initial reaction... 



> *Lon said: * It's easy enough to get myself off multiple times daily if I wanted, which I sometimes do, but it gets boring quickly, and with a partner it just seems so much more complicated but worth the effort when we can fit it in (pun intended).


You said *"I love sex with my GF. There is nothing in the universe more satisfying*." but then you mention it is "*complicated*' .....what do you mean??

What are the sexual issues..fluctuating pain due to her injuries? Do you worry she may reject you in any way?? 

I am thinking....IF SHE WANTS MORE (her mentioning it is a clue , most especially if she is passive to begin with)...Why not save your sexual energy for her, build the passion?? 

Have you & her talked about THIS...and how you both feel on it ...what is her ideal -maybe once a week or twice ??

You mentioned TIME ...we all make TIME for what is important to us ... where there is a will, there is a way.. . Kids.. entertain them..allow your son a sleep over... while you & your lady lock the door behind you, work each other up...read some erotic literature, watch some soft porn together.. 



> *Lon said:* I am dealing with depression, I think most of it stems from regret of not having more experience when I was younger, regret that my marriage failed etc.


 There is a book called Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda: Overcoming Regrets, Mistakes, and Missed Opportunities: Books

If you find yourself going here a lot...maybe this can help open that up -so you an catch yourself doing it and avert it.. and live in the here & now..

It says about the book


> Who of us can claim never to have made a mistake, missed a goal, regretted a choice, or suffered because of another's action?
> 
> For those who suffer from a constant sense of regret about the past, who feel their present lives have been immutably shaped by actions they could or should or would have taken but didn't, real help is at hand. In clear, uncomplicated language, Dr. Arthur Freeman, a leading exponent of cognitive therapy, and his colleague Rose DeWolf, a skillful translator of the cognitive method, describe the techniques and provide exercises that will enable readers to actually "unblock" the past.
> 
> The authors demonstrate that wouldo/coulda/shoulda thinking can be unlearned and that this process can be accomplished in a relatively short period of time.





> *Lon said*: I never said she was unthrilled with the frequency, it's just that I know if it's been awhile she sometimes asks me why it has been so long. And we always have a rational and reasonable explanation. *She has never once pressured me to initiate more often, and never expressed dissatisfaction.* When we first got sexual she was quite emotional about it because it had been a few years, she'd just come out of a relationship that had become sexless after her injury.
> 
> Her and I don't take for granted each and every time we are together. I think we both are thinking why should we be unsatisfied?* I think we both are satisfied, but we still both lust and please ourselves individually*.


As others have said, it really doesn't matter what others do..what is normal for them... Like me, I'd be furious if my Guy was doing himself if I wanted him -more than he was up for me. ..if this took a hit on his desire.. I'd be terribly upset ...But that's me.. and in our past, there I was doing myself when HE wanted more..and we missed each other cause we DIDN'T dare speak of masturbating...it just seemed so taboo ! 

So have this talk.. it sounds you are both creatures of habit... just used to pleasing yourself...so it continues -even as you've found each other.. I guess it makes sense...

Just keep revisiting this conversation.. and if you have to save a few strokes to push your drive up a little to meet hers.. I think she'll be very happy... I don't think most women want to ask their guys "Why has it been so long?".... this makes us feel undesired.. it's just not a good feeling..

We want you to want us..


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm coming to learn that I don't regret not having sex more, I do regret holding onto feelings of inadequacy when I wasn't getting any, or when I bought into the idea that I actually need it more than a couple times a month.

Sex takes a lot of energy to do, and while the reward makes it worth doing, doing it more often, for me, d very little additional benefit but takes even more energy. Maybe I'm lazy I don't know, I do know that why would I expend a whole lot more energy doing something that doesn't bring mean any additional satisfaction, and doesn't bring my partner any greater satisfaction either. It takes no energy for each of us to get ourselves off if we feel like we want to, and use the energy we do have on things that actually do bring greater reward. I guess this is what I find so many people have a hard time comprehending, that because something can be so good that more of it must be more good.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I don't get the whole "sex takes a lot of energy" thing, though. Not every session has to be a 3 hour marathon that leaves your mattress whimpering. You could have a nice relaxing oral sex session, my SO and I have had sex while watching tv in bed, and nobody even got fully undressed. Just pull down pants, insert tab A in slot B, wriggle around a little, then fall asleep... There's lots that can be done without expending a days worth of calories. 

I do think you need to be careful that she's not fully expressing her feelings about this bothering her. If she's brought it up at all, it's significant. IMHO...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Lon said:


> I'm coming to learn that I don't regret not having sex more, I do regret holding onto feelings of inadequacy when I wasn't getting any, or when I bought into the idea that I actually need it more than a couple times a month.
> 
> Sex takes a lot of energy to do, and while the reward makes it worth doing, doing it more often, for me, d very little additional benefit but takes even more energy. Maybe I'm lazy I don't know, I do know that why would I expend a whole lot more energy doing something that doesn't bring mean any additional satisfaction, and doesn't bring my partner any greater satisfaction either. It takes no energy for each of us to get ourselves off if we feel like we want to, and use the energy we do have on things that actually do bring greater reward. I guess this is what I find so many people have a hard time comprehending, that because something can be so good that more of it must be more good.


I honestly don't see the point of forcing the issue just to say that you have sex every week or day or whatever. If you both are satisfied, then don't let TAM make you feel like a loser or like there's something wrong with you just because there are people who want it 3x a day. 

If you and your gf are on the same page, and you both feel desired by the other and satisfied with your sex lives, forget what TAM or anyone else has to say about it.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm going to be honest. This thread is triggering me bad. Maybe more than any other post I have read.

My husband could have written this post. Some of the things you have said are words that have come out of his own mouth.

"The reward just isn't worth the effort." "It takes too much energy." "I need some time to refuel."

My husband gives me those lines but I don't understand how you and him can say that then in the next breath say, "I love sex with my GF/wife. There is nothing in the universe more satisfying."

It doesn't compute. How can you love it, but think it is tiring/complicated/not worth it?

I'm not trying to be mean or make you feel bad. But I am with Simply Amorous. I would be FURIOUS if my husband was "spanking the monkey" sometimes daily, but only wanted sex with me every other week.

I know you said she doesn't seem to mind, but I can almost guarantee she DOES. You said she will ask what is wrong if it's been a while. Hello. That is her telling you it bothers her. She just sounds passive and/or doesn't want to hurt your feelings. I bet it is on her mind, and she doesn't want to bring it up.

I'm sure it hurts her at least occasionally, and makes her doubt her sexiness and your attraction for her. It's how women are. They want to be desired, loved, cherished, lusted after.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

PBear said:


> I don't get the whole "sex takes a lot of energy" thing, though. Not every session has to be a 3 hour marathon that leaves your mattress whimpering. You could have a nice relaxing oral sex session, my SO and I have had sex while watching tv in bed, and nobody even got fully undressed. Just pull down pants, insert tab A in slot B, wriggle around a little, then fall asleep... There's lots that can be done without expending a days worth of calories.
> *
> I do think you need to be careful that she's not fully expressing her feelings about this bothering her. If she's brought it up at all, it's significant. IMHO...*
> 
> ...



:iagree:

Especially with the bolded part. 

It is fine to only have sex every couple weeks if that is what you BOTH want. Then great, everyone is happy. But it sounds to me like she isn't happy. She is just putting on a smile to protect your feelings.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lon said:


> I'm coming to learn that I don't regret not having sex more, I do regret holding onto feelings of inadequacy when I wasn't getting any, or when I bought into the idea that I actually need it more than a couple times a month.
> 
> Sex takes a lot of energy to do, and while the reward makes it worth doing, doing it more often, for me, d very little additional benefit but takes even more energy. *Maybe I'm lazy I don't know, I do know that why would I expend a whole lot more energy doing something that doesn't bring mean any additional satisfaction, and doesn't bring my partner any greater satisfaction either. It takes no energy for each of us to get ourselves off if we feel like we want to, and use the energy we do have on things that actually do bring greater reward.* I guess this is what I find so many people have a hard time comprehending, that because something can be so good that more of it must be more good.


So long as SHE feels the same as you do, you've discussed it and trust she is being honest with you... I'd say you've met your perfect match. :smthumbup: 

How old is she?? Just thinking about that mid life surge.. if she is on some kind of meds, maybe she won't have one.... but if not.. just saying....it could be a game changer...

I'm with the others, if she is not an assertive personality (is she??), she could just be putting on a  not wanting to pressure you too much..but still hurting inside.. this is the 10,000 question... if you care about this woman.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I didn't get the sense that Lon thinks it's not worth the effort. What I took from what he says is maybe a few things. 

I think he is a little depressed.
I think he would not care to do the lie on sides, slip it in, hump a couple times and roll over and go to sleep. I never liked that. If I was going to do it, I wanted to do it, not just stick it in, swirl it around(heehee) and that's it. For me, that's not worth it. I get the sense Lon might not like that either. I hope he answers that.

I get the feeling he enjoys it and gets the mental fix from the dopermine and stuff, but I think he's not addicted to it. I know, even though I had only been with my first wife for quite a few years, there are only a certain amount of things you can really do with any penis or vagina/clit/gspot. I mean, you hump it this way or rub it that. You lick it like this or that. There's some heavy breathing, some moaning, whatever. At some point, it's like yeah, I've done the things I really like, now what is so different about you that wasn't pretty much the same as all the other women out there? Do you have dancing monkeys in there or what? In the end, it's an orgasm, an ejaculation. 

So, sometimes, the best part of the woman you are with is how she treats you, not how her vagina feels. That's great, but if it isn't there outside the bedroom, you'll be looking for monkeys. 

And they are okay for a while. 

This is depression Lon. This is low T. This is not finding joy in living. If this is you, see your doctor. Don't let this go on. 

If you weren't depressed, you might not even be with that woman. I'm not saying she isn't wonderful, but maybe she is not the right woman for you? Maybe you need to find someone who makes your toes tingle just talking with her? 

Then too, maybe you just are not the kind of person that is good in long-term relationships? Maybe you need to switch up the scenery once in a while. That's okay too. 

Sheesh, I hope there was something relevant there.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I am not concerned one bit about her being afraid to express her feelings, I am very certain that her and I are on the same wavelength when it comes to the frequency and pleasure, I think where it may differ is she may feel that I want it to be more frequent, that we should "improve" it somehow, whereas I am accepting that it is great as is, I am willing to change and make sex a higher priority if that's what she needs, but for me that change isn't an improvement (to my sexual satisfaction) or necessary.

She is 39, I'm 38, she is not on meds, and is not an inhibited person, she is plenty assertive and never holds back, freely speaks her mind on any subject, and genuinely listens. But she can be a bit too much of a problem solver, often looking for problems when there aren't any.

I'm not sure what you mean by the 10,000th question. I care about her tremendously, and above all else I just want to remain completely honest.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Well then it sounds like you are a good match. If you are happy with the way things are and so is she, I see no problems.

In my marriage I am not okay with it, and I've seen first hand the issues it can cause. But every person is different, and if it works for you and your GF then that's great. 

But I still have to agree with 2ntnuf, "This is depression Lon. This is low T. This is not finding joy in living. If this is you, see your doctor. Don't let this go on." 

If you are unhappy with things, then see your doctor. Otherwise, enjoy the fact that you found a woman on the same wavelength as you.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Okay Lon, here's the deal. I've read plenty here. Most posts have said that women here want you to want them. If she wants more, you have to give it or you don't love her. It's pretty much that simple. If she asks, then ask if she wants more and what that means to her, since she is open with you. Then, give it to her if you want her to stick around. If you don't care, do as you please. That's pretty much it. Keep a few boundaries where you won't have a heart attack or a stroke to please her or tolerate certain things, but give her, as much as you can, what she wants, without demoralizing yourself or losing her respect. Tell her when and how if she wants more. Just do it more often. I think this is the way.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lon said:


> *I am not concerned one bit about her being afraid to express her feelings, I am very certain that her and I are on the same wavelength when it comes to the frequency and pleasure,* I think where it may differ is she may feel that I want it to be more frequent, that we should "improve" it somehow, whereas I am accepting that it is great as is, I am willing to change and make sex a higher priority if that's what she needs, but for me that change isn't an improvement (to my sexual satisfaction) or necessary.
> 
> She is 39, I'm 38, she is not on meds, and is not an inhibited person, *she is plenty assertive and never holds back, freely speaks her mind on any subject, and genuinely listens.* But she can be a bit too much of a problem solver, often looking for problems when there aren't any.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by the 10,000th question. I care about her tremendously, and above all else I just want to remain completely honest.


Ok.. she sounds plenty assertive then.. she'll tell ya how she is feeling , the when's and the why's... that's good.. 

By saying the 10,000 dollar question, I was just meaning if she was a more passive personality..on the subtle side...hoping you will read her mind... doesn't want to hurt you/ pressure you.. and goes along.. to please you....to even stuffing her own emotions to keep you... It happens sometimes.. 

But from your description here -- that's not her!! Carry on Lon.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I didn't get the sense that Lon thinks it's not worth the effort. What I took from what he says is maybe a few things.
> 
> I think he is a little depressed.
> I think he would not care to do the lie on sides, slip it in, hump a couple times and roll over and go to sleep. I never liked that. If I was going to do it, I wanted to do it, not just stick it in, swirl it around(heehee) and that's it. For me, that's not worth it. I get the sense Lon might not like that either. I hope he answers that.
> ...


My toes tingle every time I'm with her, or anticipating being with her, in my mind I'm wearing the biggest grin, and when she sees me grinning at her it always throws her off and she does something clutzy. But my c0ck doesn't really stir or anything like that, I certainly have never been addicted to sex (though in the past I've had porn obsession, which I've actively worked at keeping in my past) - largely like I said because of my upbringing and guilt towards sex, but also just like I say I rarely have the momentum to work that hard at making it happen. It is 10x easier for each of us to get ourselves off than each other, so we let each other please ourselves in our own time, and then sex becomes about something other than just getting to an orgasm.

Once in awhile we will keep it casual and not-so-intense like a finger job or a BJ while watching TV, but the shortest "quickie" with PIV we've ever had was an hour long.

As for the best part is the way she treats me (and vice versa) not just about how her VJJ feels, this clicks for some reason - her VJJ fits me perfectly by the way, incredibly so, I just don't need to be up in it as often as I can (though I do need to be up in it from time to time). But I'm not sure how you are relating this back to the depression or low T, meaning if I was not depressed or low T I would need to be up in it incessantly? That seems awfully needy to me.

Yes the joy in life is subdued from how I remember it as a child - I certainly don't feel like a fun kind of person all that often, I'm repeatedly told by acquaintances I need to cut loose - but that is easy for those who have a lot of people in their lives to support them. I'm very much a loner, if I cut loose it means I'm missing the next mortgage payment, next week's groceries etc - I'm weary of surviving.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ok.. she sounds plenty assertive then.. she'll tell ya how she is feeling , the when's and the why's... that's good..
> 
> By saying the 10,000 dollar question, I was just meaning if she was a more passive personality..on the subtle side...hoping you will read her mind... doesn't want to hurt you/ pressure you.. and goes along.. to please you....to even stuffing her own emotions to keep you... It happens sometimes..
> 
> But from your description here -- that's not her!! Carry on Lon.


ah, you meant $10k question - I thought I was missing something in all your guys' posts. She is not passive at all, but she is patient and likes to stop and smell the roses.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Lon: "But I'm not sure how you are relating this back to the depression or low T, meaning if I was not depressed or low T I would need to be up in it? That seems awfully needy to me.

Yes the joy in life is subdued from how I remember it as a child - I certainly don't feel like a fun kind of person all that often, I'm repeatedly told by acquaintances I need to cut loose - but that is easy for those who have a lot of people in their lives to support them. I'm very much a loner, if I cut loose it means I'm missing the next mortgage payment, next week's groceries etc - I'm weary of surviving."

-----------------------------------

No, not up in it, just more excited about it. Maybe it's just your style of writing? 

Then, I read that you do tingle when you think of her and the other stuff. You are a contradiction, it seems. 

Then, you write about the joy part and I think you are just weary of living. I believe that is depression. Some of it, I bet, stems from wanting things and not being able to get them, no matter how hard you've tried. Am I close? 

Anyway, needing and wanting sex are two different aminals. Wanting and needing your sweetie are different animals. It's needy to want the person you are with by default, in my opinion. If it wasn't needy, you'd be out screwing others besides her. Because, you don't need her, you just want sex. If you only want sex with her, it's more like needing her because she is the only one. At least, in my mind anyway.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Okay Lon, here's the deal. I've read plenty here. Most posts have said that women here want you to want them. If she wants more, you have to give it or you don't love her. It's pretty much that simple. If she asks, then ask if she wants more and what that means to her, since she is open with you. Then, give it to her if you want her to stick around. If you don't care, do as you please. That's pretty much it. Keep a few boundaries where you won't have a heart attack or a stroke to please her or tolerate certain things, but give her, as much as you can, what she wants, without demoralizing yourself or losing her respect. Tell her when and how if she wants more. Just do it more often. I think this is the way.


I guess I see this as the unnecessary downfall of so many relationships - a man can ALWAYS give more, so then by the logic if a man is not wanting to bang his W more (than 2x a week? daily? 3x a day? non-stop not even able to take a break to resume normal bodily functions?). Where does that impossible cycle end? If a woman needs constant sexing up to feel wanted, or if a guy needs to constantly be in her to feel appreciated, its already the endgame. endgames are not exactly conducive to "as long as you both shall live" unless you literally want to fck each other to death. (which does have sexy sounding appeal - its just unrealistic).


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Lon, if you're both happy, then that's really all that counts. We'll just confuse the issues, then.

But personally, I'd recommend you both knock off the self-servicing, and get your kicks together. It may help with the quickies not lasting an hour, as well. But to me, sex is a bonding agent in an intimate relationship, and the more you do that, the closer you'll be. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Well then it sounds like you are a good match. If you are happy with the way things are and so is she, I see no problems.
> 
> *In my marriage I am not okay with it, and I've seen first hand the issues it can cause*. But every person is different, and if it works for you and your GF then that's great.
> 
> ...


yes I agree absolutely that a SD mismatch can lead to the demise of a marriage. It played a part in the demise of mine - it had become sexless, however that wasn't the result of my LD per se, it was that the reasons behind my LD contributed to us not getting past the barrier. It had to do with loss of attraction, firstly by her for me, and then when I felt unappreciated and unwanted I certainly wasn't going to inflict myself upon her, even if she did need to get off - thus the exit affair. anyways, thats history, as in my new relationship I certainly don't feel unattractive to my GF, and the frequency of sexual affection suits us both.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

PBear said:


> Lon, if you're both happy, then that's really all that counts. We'll just confuse the issues, then.
> 
> But personally, I'd recommend you both knock off the self-servicing, and get your kicks together. It may help with the quickies not lasting an hour, as well. But to me, *sex is a bonding agent in an intimate relationship, and the more you do that, the closer you'll be*.
> 
> ...


That's the crux of the reason why I think I started this thread. I guess I'm concerned that we may not be as close as we should be, or perhaps that being closer is a committment that I will not be able to live up to (what with our already busy lives).


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Lon said:


> I guess I see this as the unnecessary downfall of so many relationships - a man can ALWAYS give more, so then by the logic if a man is not wanting to bang his W more (than 2x a week? daily? 3x a day? non-stop not even able to take a break to resume normal bodily functions?). Where does that impossible cycle end? If a woman needs constant sexing up to feel wanted, or if a guy needs to constantly be in her to feel appreciated, its already the endgame. endgames are not exactly conducive to "as long as you both shall live" unless you literally want to fck each other to death. (which does have sexy sounding appeal - its just unrealistic).


What was your purpose here, Lon? Did you think I am so naive as to think what you wrote? Do you think any man will be able to give until he can no longer stand or do you believe in doing the best we can to live and be happy? You are losing it a little with this post. 

Women have implied and written similar when addressing low drive. Men have as well. It's not gender specific unless we talk about one specific relationship.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Lon said:


> That's the crux of the reason why I think I started this thread. I guess I'm concerned that we may not be as close as we should be, or perhaps that being closer is a committment that I will not be able to live up to (what with our already busy lives).


So riddle me this, then... With your busy lives, how much quality, 1 on 1 time do you two spend together? What kind of things are you doing together? You gotta know the magical 15 hours is going to come up here...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Knowledge will reduce your fear. If you two can talk, you will reduce your fear. That's why this is all over the place. You don't really know what she wants, so you don't know what to expect. 

You have said you communicate well.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

PBear said:


> So riddle me this, then... With your busy lives, how much quality, 1 on 1 time do you two spend together? What kind of things are you doing together? You gotta know the magical 15 hours is going to come up here...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It all depends how the calendar lines up that month... when I have custody my son and I sometimes see her once a week together, occasionally will both spend the night there (has only happened a few times). I'm usually at home with my son, and after he's tucked in we'll usually spend 3 hours talking on the phone. We also text throughout the day (when she is not working night shifts). On weeks I don't have my son, and when she's not working nights I usually spend most nights at her place (my place is not exactly comfortable for either of us as I rent from a friend and it's a bit of a disgusting bachelor pad, my son's bed is in my room, which will hopefully change once I find a decent apartment of my own).

So one week I will spend 50 hours with her in person, much of that time being quality time sitting, talking cuddling, making love, a lot of time sleeping beside each other, and some time doing chores or projects together, and of course we get one or two date nights in on those weeks, either going out for walks in the summer or movies and drinks in the winter.

The next week we may not see each other for an entire week, but will spend 10-15 hours on the phone.

So on average I'm sure we meet the 15hour number, but its the fluctuation from one week to the next that is emotionally taxing, that disconnects us somewhat.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> What was your purpose here, Lon? Did you think I am so naive as to think what you wrote? Do you think any man will be able to give until he can no longer stand or do you believe in doing the best we can to live and be happy? You are losing it a little with this post.
> 
> Women have implied and written similar when addressing low drive. Men have as well. It's not gender specific unless we talk about one specific relationship.


I guess I was just replying to your line about "If she wants more, you have to give it or you don't love her. It's pretty much that simple" Especially after a number of you guys on here came on here convinced that she does indeed want more, despite me being open and honest about her discussions with me.

I'm saying it's only that simple if you believe that men are perpetually HD and women less HD than their H's. I don't think it's sound logic for LD men (of which there is a great many more than what is represented on TAM, as shown by the number of HD wives complaining about the LD spouse and how difficult the rejection is to take, when it's only rejection when you follow the one line of reasoning you put forth)


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Sarcasm is tough to write.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Take a clue from many of the women's ages. Some are younger, but they seem to be in the minority. Generally, all of this seems to start around 40 and end around 50. I had to make that a general statement. Sorry about that. 

This isn't all women, by any means.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Lon said:


> That's the crux of the reason why I think I started this thread. I guess I'm concerned that we may not be as close as we should be, or perhaps that being closer is a committment that I will not be able to live up to (what with our already busy lives).


There are so many ways to bond and be intimate and be committed in addition to sex, starting with conversation and communication, affection, etc. If you _feel _close and committed, why are you letting a forum cause you to question it?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Lon said:


> That's the crux of the reason why I think I started this thread. I guess I'm concerned that we may not be as close as we should be, or perhaps that being closer is a committment that I will not be able to live up to (what with our already busy lives).


Hit the nail on the head. I don't think you have a low sex drive, I think you have a low intimacy drive. It stems from many things, not the least being your fear of opening yourself up again.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

norajane said:


> There are so many ways to bond and be intimate and be committed in addition to sex, starting with conversation and communication, affection, etc. If you _feel _close and committed, why are you letting a forum cause you to question it?


I don't know, I guess I just respect and understand a lot of what fellow TAMers write on here, and trying to wrap my head around why this seems different to me.

I think I also have a little unease about my continuing guilt of sex, and a lingering inability to become completely uninhibited with my GF surrounding sex issues. While the frequency matches what I need, and what she says she needs (which again was a shred of uncertainty for me, since at the beginning she said she thought she was done with satisfying sex forever until I came along), and while the sexual relationship we have is deeply fulfilling, there are still some things about sex in general (or perhaps due to my depression or possible low T) that make it seem "not worth the effort" to seek more of.

One thing that has been on my mind is getting vasectomy - we do not regularly use birth control, sometimes condoms, usually just fertility awareness and pullout method, and a lot of oral and manual stimulation, and I think there is a biological pull for more (if you know what I mean). But at 38, that is another decision I have given a lot of consideration and haven't been ready to pull the trigger on yet.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Hit the nail on the head. I don't think you have a low sex drive, I think you have a low intimacy drive. It stems from many things, not the least being your fear of opening yourself up again.


Whether my intimacy drive is high or low, my needs feel completely met - and I actually think we have a VERY intimate relationship, she knows more about me than ANYONE I've ever known, and I her. She's been the one that was slower to come around on the intimacy department, but she has come a long way.

What does low intimacy drive look like? How would I know if this even applies to me?

edit: I should add, intimacy with my GF feels very close - however intimate/close friendships with my family members, close friends etc seems completely unfulfilled in my life.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Lon said:


> Whether my intimacy drive is high or low, my needs feel completely met - and I actually think we have a VERY intimate relationship, she knows more about me than ANYONE I've ever known, and I her. She's been the one that was slower to come around on the intimacy department, but she has come a long way.
> 
> What does low intimacy drive look like? How would I know if this even applies to me?


One thing that stood out in your post was that you don't want sex as often but do masturbate. Something about that made me think this was more about not letting yourself get physically close, rather than being lower drive. I am probably way off base (wouldn't be the first time) but that pricked my ears up, sort of speak.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> One thing that stood out in your post was that you don't want sex as often but do masturbate. Something about that made me think this was more about not letting yourself get physically close, rather than being lower drive. I am probably way off base (wouldn't be the first time) but that pricked my ears up, sort of speak.


I understand, it might not be completely off base. I am asking these questions, telling my thoughts, so that I can get an outsiders perspective to help me see the things I do not see. There is obviously something there that makes me feel like I need to see, too often in this relationship I've gotten that surreal feeling like its not entirely happening, like I'm in a daze. Probably has a lot to do with the wounds of my divorce, or maybe its intimacy issues, or maybe its nothing just my mind overthinking and overanalyzing.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Lon said:


> One thing that has been on my mind is getting vasectomy - we do not regularly use birth control, sometimes condoms, usually just fertility awareness and pullout method, and a lot of oral and manual stimulation, and I think there is a biological pull for more (if you know what I mean). But at 38, that is another decision I have given a lot of consideration and haven't been ready to pull the trigger on yet.


This is something you need to get a handle on sooner rather than later. Is there a reason she isn't on BC pills or other? Is she talking about a baby?

Accidental pregnancy can definitely be a libido dampener. That can hang in the back of your head and impact you whether you realize it or not.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Lon said:


> I understand, it might not be completely off base. I am asking these questions, telling my thoughts, so that I can get an outsiders perspective to help me see the things I do not see. There is obviously something there that makes me feel like I need to see, too often in this relationship I've gotten that surreal feeling like its not entirely happening, like I'm in a daze. Probably has a lot to do with the wounds of my divorce, or maybe its intimacy issues, or maybe its nothing just my mind overthinking and overanalyzing.


No doubt your wounds are deep. She put you through the ringer. I really don't have any sound advice, I just wanted to share my thoughts about what I noticed was a contradiction....low sex drive/not wanting sex as often vs. frequent masturbation.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

norajane said:


> This is something you need to get a handle on sooner rather than later. Is there a reason she isn't on BC pills or other? Is she talking about a baby?
> 
> Accidental pregnancy can definitely be a libido dampener. That can hang in the back of your head and impact you whether you realize it or not.


Neither of us want a baby, she does not use any oral contraceptives or anything that will disrupt her hormonally or chemicaly, and I absolutely support that choice. This is one of the factors I had in mind when I said sex is more complicated than spanking the monkey.

If I were to make vows to her today I'd get snipped in a heartbeat, but we've only been together a year and a half, don't live together and I'm only 38 and only 95% sure I am done with having children (the remaining % is reserved for the possibility that if this relationship doesn't work out I may meet someone younger that I would actually see as raising children that I've fathered - it is not something I am actively seeking or want, but I also do not want to shut down that possibility).

So I tend to be careful where my seed lands, lol


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> No doubt your wounds are deep. She put you through the ringer. I really don't have any sound advice, I just wanted to share my thoughts about what I noticed was a contradiction....low sex drive/not wanting sex as often vs. frequent masturbation.


In my entire adulthood I've basically been responsible for taking care of my own sexual needs. Sex for me is really about intimacy, I don't need a VJJ or any other person's body parts to orgasm, but a beautiful and enthusiastic woman whom loves me sure is a wonderful addition to my life, any time she wants to please me I feel honored and loved, and vice versa. I guess this is why as much as I, like any man, may lust and fantasize about casual ONS with models, that is just something that in real life I have not nor would not pursue.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Lon are you physically and sexually attracted to your girlfriend?


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

From the beginning, reading this thread has also made me wonder if you are attracted to your GF. 

Also, this stands out:



> (though in the past I've had porn obsession, which I've actively worked at keeping in my past) - largely like I said because of my upbringing and guilt towards sex, but also just like I say I rarely have the momentum to work that hard at making it happen. It is 10x easier for each of us to get ourselves off than each other, so we let each other please ourselves in our own time,


Things you've mentioned throughout:

Previous porn issues

wishing you had been with your GF when she could fit into the smaller yoga pants you found in the garage

what you think you want and what you really want (which is what?)

The reward isn't worth the effort (possibly from reaching orgasm too easily from porn?) 

You've even mentioned stamina being low sometimes when having sex and that you just cuddle or go to sleep instead. 

You still are "taking care of business" several times a week yourself. 

It sounds like you have a sex drive...just not for your GF.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I find my GF very beatiful and attractive. She is not a porn star, nor am I a body builder, we have sizzling sex and PE is not a problem, though on occasions maintaining an erection after awhile has been, in which case I just keep using my hands and mouth. I don't let myself cum until she is done or else I crash too hard, especially is it's at night. If she wasn't attractive to me I wouldn't have pursued her. Some weeks I get around to getting myself off lots and others never. Right now I havent for almost two weeks, I don't have blue balls or anything.

Not sure why I feel a need to defend my attraction to my GF. Next week I'm going on vacation to my parents place for five days without her, so maybe I'm just not looking forward to being away from her too long.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

> My GF is OK with less frequent lovemaking but I think for her two weeks is too long, but generally I am usually way too depleted to initiate all that often. If she initiates I am keen to please, but I often lack any kind of stamina *(I don't mean PE, but just lose interest and after a short time will just turn to cuddling and falling asleep)*.





> I'm perpetually horny, and lust for women all the time, including my GF, I'm just not up to the performance all that often, for some reason the* reward isn't incentive enough for the effort*





> I will sometimes take care of myself daily or multiple times,





> If I'd had attractive women throwing themselves at me I would probably be in an entirely different situation,





> and know that neither of us have perfect bodies or perfect minds by any means, but we appreciate sharing our experiences together. I think she is absolutely gorgeous, and I know she finds me attractive, but it would be unrealistic to expect her to have the it factor a young fitness model has





> because I've found a woman that meshes very well, albeit differently than I would have envisioned earlier on in life





> I was helping her clean out her garage (the actual one, lol) and she found a pair of old yoga pants, and I'll admit for a second my mind went straight to thinking how much I would have wanted her when she fit into those.





> I meant that what I have always thought I wanted, and what I actually want are not the same thing.





> It's easy enough to get myself off multiple times daily if I wanted, which I sometimes do, but it gets boring quickly, and with a partner it just seems so much *more complicated* but worth the effort when we can fit it in


*How can you say here it's worth the effort when you've said the reward isn't worth the effort?* :scratchhead:


This is why I asked if you found her attractive....

Anyway these are just quotes from the first 2 pages....I don't have time to go through all 5 pages.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



staarz21 said:


> *How can you say here it's worth the effort when you've said the reward isn't worth the effort?* :scratchhead:
> 
> 
> This is why I asked if you found her attractive....
> ...


It seems pretty simple. When you are hungry you really enjoy eating a delicious morsel of food, you eat until you are satiated and then you feel fulfilled. Eating beyond that doesn't bring more enjoyment of that food does it?

When you get hungry again, you enjoy eating.

Is sexual satiation any different? It is not exactly pleasant to force yourself to eat when you are full.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Lon said:


> It seems pretty simple. When you are hungry you really enjoy eating a delicious morsel of food, you eat until you are satiated and then you feel fulfilled. Eating beyond that doesn't bring more enjoyment of that food does it?
> 
> When you get hungry again, you enjoy eating.
> 
> Is sexual satiation any different? It is not exactly pleasant to force yourself to eat when you are full.


But you're not full if you can still masturbate sometimes multiple times a day, daily. Do you see where that can be confusing for us to understand?

What about the other lines I quoted? Many of those suggest you're really not all that attracted to her. That's only the first 2 pages. 

With your past obsession with porn and some of the things you've said, I am wondering if porn got to you in the sense of what women are really like (looks wise and the effort it takes for sex)


It just doesn't seem to me like you have LD. Someone who can still masturbate all of the time is not LD. Someone who is still thinking about sex daily and lusting after other women is not LD.

For example, many of the LD women we've heard of do NOT think of sex AT ALL. Like, it's not even in their realm of possibility. They will not masturbate or have sex for MONTHS/YEARS....this just isn't what you're describing. 

You've even said if attractive women had thrown themselves at you, the situation would be different...

I really am just trying to understand. Maybe you're not attracted, maybe you're afraid. But it's hard to see this as LD.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

you realize that you contradict yourself all over the place don't you? 

some of the reasons you provide for not having sex more often make a lot of sense but I really think that you're also making a lot of excuses to cover up an underlying problem that you just don't want to address.

you speak for your girlfriend as though you know what she's really thinking and I worried that you are actually clueless to what's going on in her mind. and that might be because if you had a clue you would have to do something about it. And clearly you don't want to change a thing.

and that's fine but you better be darned sure that your girlfriend isn't wondering what's wrong with you or she isn't dissatisfied. if she goes through a big surge in her 40s you could be in for a world of hurt. 

I can't tell you how to reprioritize your life because I don't know what your schedule looks like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



staarz21 said:


> But you're not full if you can still masturbate sometimes multiple times a day, daily. Do you see where that can be confusing for us to understand?
> 
> What about the other lines I quoted? Many of those suggest you're really not all that attracted to her. That's only the first 2 pages.
> 
> ...


I guess I have a strong SD, I just don't like to pursue or initiate, or atleast not all that often. Maybe this is my barrier. I'm turned on by my GF, at least as much as any woman, particularly because she is my GF and I'm inside her mind. But me being turned on isn't really a strong motivator for me to try to have sex. So not really a strong sex "drive" but I'm still a man that thinks about sex constantly. Maybe I'm just stuck in my own head.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



clipclop2 said:


> ... you speak for your girlfriend as though you know what she's really thinking and I worried that you are actually clueless to what's going on in her mind. and that might be because if you had a clue you would have to do something about it. And clearly you don't want to change a thing.
> 
> and that's fine but you better be darned sure that your girlfriend isn't wondering what's wrong with you or she isn't dissatisfied. if she goes through a big surge in her 40s you could be in for a world of hurt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well one her best traits is she doesn't leave me guessing, she tells me exactly what she wants me to know, we talk about all this stuff a lot, and what she's told me is she is completely satisfied, but is interested in stepping up both of our sexual appetites and sexual activity so we both have more vitality in other areas in our life too. She is not desperate for change by any means, and like me is open to change but doesn't feel its needed to stress out about it. Sex is always great, and it would be nice to have that feeling more often than not, but the solution for me isn't to force myself to initiate more, both of us want to have a natural approach to this.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Have your T levels checked. Your labels don't match your descriptions.

Your thinking seems cloudy. That could be the depression and/or low T.

The past porn issue might have simply wrecked your brain for partnered sex. The phrase " at least as much as any woman" struck me... You mean as much as any *real* woman. 

I wonder if you aren't primarily auto sexual.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You are abstaining from porn, right?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

"Autosexual" lol, is that a real term?


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Lon said:


> I guess I have a strong SD, I just don't like to pursue or initiate, or atleast not all that often. Maybe this is my barrier. I'm turned on by my GF, at least as much as any woman, particularly because she is my GF and I'm inside her mind. But me being turned on isn't really a strong motivator for me to try to have sex. So not really a strong sex "drive" but I'm still a man that thinks about sex constantly. Maybe I'm just stuck in my own head.


Ok so now we are at another part. Being turned on isn't a strong motivator because it takes too much effort/energy to have sex. At least this is what I've gathered from your previous posts. This is something really important especially since you've mentioned before that it's easier to just do it yourself. 

So taking care of business yourself = easier than sex. Little effort needs to be put into that. The girls are always willing and ready in porn and you don't have to do any work. If I am way off base I am so sorry. I am just observing and trying to see if there is a way around this...

or if you are happy and you are absolutely sure she is happy....then I will totally drop it. 

But honestly, if she is asking why it's been so long in between sex....she isn't happy and she may be avoiding talking about it.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Lon said:


> I guess I have a strong SD, I just don't like to pursue or initiate, or atleast not all that often. Maybe this is my barrier. I'm turned on by my GF, at least as much as any woman, particularly because she is my GF and I'm inside her mind. But me being turned on isn't really a strong motivator for me to try to have sex. So not really a strong sex "drive" but I'm still a man that thinks about sex constantly. Maybe I'm just stuck in my own head.


So shake things up and get out of your head. Do something different. Have you and your gf gone on vacation together yet? Plan a vacation, or a weekend away. Go to the Grand Canyon or to see the Biggest Ball of Twine, something you haven't seen. Maybe go out of your comfort zone a little, try something you haven't done before. Take some risks together outside the bedroom. Break down some of your boundaries. It will be fun, I promise.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



staarz21 said:


> But honestly, if she is asking why it's been so long in between sex....she isn't happy and she may be avoiding talking about it.


I should clarify, she has said this on two occasions I can think of, and she wasn't asking me for an answer, simply saying "oh why did we wait so long" as in "that was good" and I admitted that yes it was too long. I don't think she was trying to address any specific concern


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Lon said:


> I should clarify, she has said this on two occasions I can think of, and she wasn't asking me for an answer, simply saying "oh why did we wait so long" as in "that was good" and I admitted that yes it was too long. I don't think she was trying to address any specific concern


Ok. I will drop it all then. I guess I just didn't understand. All seems fine between you two then.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



staarz21 said:


> Ok. I will drop it all then. I guess I just didn't understand. All seems fine between you two then.


I appreciate your input staarz, like I said a couple pages ago, I wouldn't be posting if there weren't any potential issues going on. Things do feel good, but in my understanding not enough sex is usually an indicator of poor communication or health.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't think you really know what she thinks.

And yes, autosexual is a real thing.

I find your attitude toward partnered sex alarming and I would suggest that if your girlfriend read this thread she would be very concerned.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



clipclop2 said:


> I don't think you really know what she thinks.
> 
> And yes, autosexual is a real thing.
> 
> I find your attitude toward partnered sex alarming and I would suggest that if your girlfriend read this thread she would be very concerned.


I googled autosexual, and your diagnosis is probably not far off the mark. I can't read minds but I can foster open communication with her. My attitude isn't the problem, it's my lack of, or rather limited, sexual need that poses the problem. And I do appreciate your comments to clip clop.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Give up masturbation and porn and see if things improve. No soft porn either.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You are downplaying what she has said to you. She had told you concerns about frequency and stepping it up.

You are very passive. That's not attractive in a man. Be very careful you dont find yourself replaced one day. You r descriptions make me very concerned for the viability of any long term relationship. You dont listen. You just think you do. You are a see it when you believe it kind of guy. That's backward. 

Would you let your girlfriend read this thread?

And will you give up M and porn?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



clipclop2 said:


> You are downplaying what she has said to you. She had told you concerns about frequency and stepping it up.
> 
> You are very passive. That's not attractive in a man. Be very careful you dont find yourself replaced one day. You r descriptions make me very concerned for the viability of any long term relationship. You dont listen. You just think you do. You are a see it when you believe it kind of guy. That's backward.
> 
> ...


OK clip clop, you certainly have your ideas about me on this thread that really don't match up to me in reality. I've rambled somewhat but have just been trying to express my thoughts and feelings, and it seems you've latched onto the potential bad ones but haven't really listened to me explain why or acknowledged how those fit into the scheme of things. I have been trying to be open minded about your ideas on here, because there are some things you are suggesting that hit close to home (my GF and I both quip that we are both "backwards", but now you are telling me things my GF is saying that she is in fact not saying at all, and I'm starting to feel like it's just condescension? If it's a personal trigger or something I understand, but I am not the person you have in mind when you are telling me to pay attention and that I'm a believe it when I see it kind of guy. I can be passive at times but I'm not completely oblivious.

My GF is genuinely satisfied, we have a great sex life. Will it stay so great in the future? IDK, if she has unmet needs then I will do what I can to help her fulfill them, and if not we will end things, and if I find my needs unmet I will try to be clear with her on what they are and I suspect she will do what she can to help me meet mine. We treat each other with utmost respect and we sweat things out together and enjoy getting very messy. Perhaps as we find more ways to be closer the scheduling will work itself out and the frequency will go up, but unless one of us is actually complaining about that why should we strive towards that?

In not worried, in just really enjoying things in this relationship right now. It's working for me, as best it can, and she knows that I will not cast any judgment against her for anything she identifies as needing or wanting. She already has gotten me out of my shell in a lot of ways, and I hopefully challenge her in some ways. If she wants to replace me someday that is her prerogative, but I trust her enough to know she would end things before moving onto the next thing, she is smart and mature and is past playing games.

I don't think I'll show her this thread because there are some things I've said that would come across as frank and indifferent about her, but that is not the case and I wouldn't want her to feel an ounce of hurt, this thread is for me. But I will talk about most of the issues that have come up on this thread with her. I will not abstain from M, nor would I ask her to, why would we give up on something we both like so much? Porn isn't really an issue, there are enough sources of lust all around me that my fires don't need more stoking.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I have to say that you are in deep denial. your sex drive is very screwed up and you are a walking contradiction. I'm surely not surprised that you won't give up porn. You like it more than partnered sex. 

quite honestly you won't show this thread to your girlfriend because if she knew the truth she would probably leave you. Now how's that for open and honest? 

I really don't think that auto sexual people should get married. so long as you don't live together you can cover up the truth but if you ever decide to move in together where to get married she's going to find out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



clipclop2 said:


> I have to say that you are in deep denial. your sex drive is very screwed up and you are a walking contradiction. I'm surely not surprised that you won't give up porn. You like it more than partnered sex.
> 
> quite honestly you won't show this thread to your girlfriend because if she knew the truth she would probably leave you. Now how's that for open and honest?
> 
> ...


With all due respect, your way off base. But I appreciate your concern.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

If you didn't contradict yourself so often I would believe you were not in denial.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I have not contradicted myself once. It only appears that way because you are trying to attach a label on me, in fact you yourself have said "your labels don't match up". When I tried to elaborate for you, that yes I prefer sex with myself...SOMETIMES, but not always, it doesn't make sense to you, and so you attach the label of denial.

Forget the labels. If I have some "autosexual" traits, that does not mean that is all I am or can ever be without serious therapy. For me it is a dynamic equilibrium, I meet my needs depending on the situation around me - since I'm in a relationship that has scheduling barriers it means that I can still be satisfied with my sex life even though I'm not getting it daily. I see this as being not needy, and I certainly do not withhold love, sex or affection from my GF, I just don't force it unless one of us has expressed a need for more.

I will give consideration to the labels you are affixing, to me, but all along on this thread you have made presumptions that are incorrect and stuck to them, even when I clarified (perhaps you are the one in denial). You don't have to continue following this thread if you don't like, as I think I'm gonna go with the advise of NoraJane and Fozzy, since that is something I can actually work with.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Please bear with me. I think this site has affected my thinking. 

You wrote this Lon: "I just don't force it unless one of us has expressed a need for more."

Unless you are with some woman who is different from what I've read here, she won't tell you directly that she is needing you. She may give very subtle hints. Be on your guard. 

I thought that's what others were saying, too. The concern is, as a man, you may not pick up on those. By the time you do, it could be too late. 

So, I guess the caution is to be aware, be aggressive and get it from her before you get it elsewhere. Ask until she is under the weather or something prevents her. Just take the lead in initiating or you could lose something very special. 

Now, I don't really know the dynamics of your relationship, so take this with a grain of salt. I do read some of this in your posts. I may be reading too much. However, it seems others have read the same. 

Go for the gold Lon. See what happens. Leave the other stuff for emergencies, only.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I hear what you, and CC, are saying. But I'm still not going to force anything. I'll be plenty available though. As for what you term "emergency" stuff, I've been on a porn moratorium for a couple years, I've abandoned the moratorium a few times, but it's not something I frequently use, I'm far too busy lately to even have time for porn, let alone TAM (and only because it's SFW) nor am I killing my libido by whacking it off, in fact it's been almost two weeks since I've had any kind of sexual pleasure (except for some kinky dreams I was having last night). I've sent my GF a couple flirty messages today, planning on my son and I staying overnight at her place tonight because tomorrow we're going out of province to visit family and I'm not going to see her for a couple weeks. I have a lot of packing to do tonight, and I hope we are both up for some lovin when I get there, but if we aren't in that mood we will do what the actual mood deems necessary. I'm not going to go for sex if it feels like it's not right. We are going to do as we please with each other, simple as that.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

This has to be one of the oddest threads I've read in a long time. :scratchhead:


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



2ntnuf said:


> This has to be one of the oddest threads I've read in a long time. :scratchhead:


Yeah, I'm not sure why I started it, guess I'm just tired of all the negativity towards LD people on here, and also just for me more frequent and frantic sex just doesn't seem like the solution to any problems I have. Just putting a feeler out there to see if there are others whom I can relate to... I guess not.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Lon said:


> I hear what you, and CC, are saying. But I'm still not going to force anything. I'll be plenty available though. As for what you term "emergency" stuff, I've been on a porn moratorium for a couple years, I've abandoned the moratorium a few times, but it's not something I frequently use, I'm far too busy lately to even have time for porn, let alone TAM (and only because it's SFW) nor am I killing my libido by whacking it off, in fact it's been almost two weeks since I've had any kind of sexual pleasure (except for some kinky dreams I was having last night). I've sent my GF a couple flirty messages today, planning on my son and I staying overnight at her place tonight because tomorrow we're going out of province to visit family and I'm not going to see her for a couple weeks. *I have a lot of packing to do tonight, and I hope we are both up for some lovin when I get there, but if we aren't in that mood we will do what the actual mood deems necessary. I'm not going to go for sex if it feels like it's not right. We are going to do as we please with each other, simple as that*.


What???


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

karole said:


> What???


huh?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Lon said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure why I started it, guess I'm just tired of all the negativity towards LD people on here, and also just for me more frequent and frantic sex just doesn't seem like the solution to any problems I have. Just putting a feeler out there to see if there are others whom I can relate to... I guess not.


So long as the two people in an intimate relationship are happy with their sex frequency and "quality", who cares what anyone else thinks? Some people in here are 10x a week. Some are 10x a month. Some are 10x a year. So long as they're happy, it's all good. Low drive and high drive are just relative terms, anyway. And there's even an ebb and flow in a relationship. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Lon, any frequency is okay if it's good for both you and your partner. I think some things you posted made folks question whether your partner was truly happy. I don't think anyone is trying to hurt you. I know I'm not. 

I really do hope you have a good weekend. I hope you get your groove on or your mojo workin' and it all ends up a smile fest. If you don't want that and she doesn't either, I hope you are both content with that. It's all good. 

Been 1177 days. I'm due. I know I'd be tearin' it up tonight, if I found someone I wanted and wanted me. I'd be there right now. HD? Maybe in my twenties. LD? Since I hit about 45, I guess. It was more than just being content, though that was part of it. It was depression. low T due to my eating habits, it was a total lack of respect from my ex. It was...lots and lots of things. I totally wish it were different. 

I'd like to have it again and I don't know if I will be LD or not. Probably in comparison to many who post stuff here, but that's TAM. I don't have to live up to TAM's sexual standards. I have to live up to my own, and within the boundaries set by the woman who would be there with me. 

In any case, I've been having those dreams too. It's a good thing. I haven't in a long time. Wonder why? I know why. I was made to feel like a sh!t and I must not have felt I deserved it. 

So, to some extent, I can relate and to another, I cannot. We are all individuals. If there is no problem, you would not care about getting validation.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

so you really don't see yourself as being contradictory in your writing? how about wishy washy? I can see that you're trying to take some sort of a stand but you do it in a very beta kind of way. 

seriously check your T levels. healthy testosterone levels helps thinking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> so you really don't see yourself as being contradictory in your writing? how about wishy washy? I can see that you're trying to take some sort of a stand but you do it in a very beta kind of way.
> 
> seriously check your T levels. healthy testosterone levels helps thinking.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is the part that you find so contradictory? That I'm sometimes capable of MB'ing multiple times per day, while at other times I don't have the energy for sexual contact? It's not that this is something regular, just sometimes it goes that way.

If you find me being wishy washy then by all means ignore me. But if what I've said is inconsistent to you, then surely its not enough information to declare that you or anyone else knows better than I how my GF feels about things.

Anyways, I'm glad that 2ntnuf has made an effort to understand what I'm trying to write, and I'm glad Pbear kind of gets it too. There is an ebb and flow, and the stand I am making is that nobody has to fight it, specifically myself, I'm going to ride it.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lon said:


> It is 10x easier for each of us to get ourselves off than each other, so we let each other please ourselves in our own time, and then sex becomes about something other than just getting to an orgasm.
> 
> Once in awhile we will keep it casual and not-so-intense like a finger job or a BJ while watching TV, but the shortest "quickie" with PIV we've ever had was an hour long.



Hell Lon, I wouldn't want sex that often if every time we did it it was an hour long plus PIV marathon. After awhile I know both of us would see that as less a pleasure and more a chore. 

My wife and I consider "sex" anything we end any kind of sexual activity both mutually satisfied. That is not confined to PIV, or even penetration. If we have a sex session that lasts over an hour it's definitely not an hour of peen-n'-vag. 

On top of your depression, it sounds like your guys have an exhausting idea of what "sex" is. It's good when you're up to it, but it's taking a lot of energy from you when you do it.

Why not redefine what "sex" is? You two are the ones who are saying that hour minimum PIV sessions are the only things that count as legit sex. You can broaden your horizons greatly, include lots of different other activities, and shorten the time significantly while still maintaining the heat and pleasure. 

Also are you very physically and sexually attracted to her? I haven't finished the thread so I'm not sure. The earlier posts point toward you really caring a lot for her, and enjoying your relationship, but I couldn't ascertain whether she really truly lights you up sexually.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So you don't orgasm from vaginal sex either?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I don't think Lon is sexually attracted to his girlfriend Jaquen. I think he loves her a lot and is emotionally very attracted to her, but I don't think she does it for him physically. Hence the need for the long build up where physical horniness is at a high enough point to mask the lack.

I think he is attracted to quite slender women, which his girlfriend isn't particularly and I also think he feels ashamed about this, and that he thinks probably couldn't attract a woman he finds very attractive. I've picked this up over the last couple of years reading Lon's posts. 

It's a shame because as a woman I wouldn't want to be with a man who didn't think I was at least hot, although I don't have to be the hottest thing ever to him. Maybe if they were in their 60s or something, but both Lon and his girlfriend are a couple of years younger than me. It seems a little early to be throwing in the towel.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lyris said:


> I think he is attracted to quite slender women, which his girlfriend isn't particularly and I also think he feels ashamed about this, and that he thinks probably couldn't attract a woman he finds very attractive. I've picked this up over the last couple of years reading Lon's posts.



Yes, I recalled that. Lon, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the past I think I remember you lamenting that you were attracted strongly to more traditionally "hot" women, but were resigned to the idea that you felt you'd never really land one.

I've been gone for quite a long time as a regular poster here, so I'm not up to date on your relationship with this particular woman. Is she somebody, on a physical level, you're settling for?

Also aren't you a pretty sexually open, potentially adventurous man? Are your particular sexual interests and desires being explored at all in the relationship?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Lyris said:


> I don't think Lon is sexually attracted to his girlfriend Jaquen. I think he loves her a lot and is emotionally very attracted to her, but I don't think she does it for him physically. Hence the need for the long build up where physical horniness is at a high enough point to mask the lack.
> 
> I think he is attracted to quite slender women, which his girlfriend isn't particularly and I also think he feels ashamed about this, and that he thinks probably couldn't attract a woman he finds very attractive. I've picked this up over the last couple of years reading Lon's posts.
> 
> It's a shame because as a woman I wouldn't want to be with a man who didn't think I was at least hot, although I don't have to be the hottest thing ever to him. Maybe if they were in their 60s or something, but both Lon and his girlfriend are a couple of years younger than me. It seems a little early to be throwing in the towel.


She is certainly my type, petite build, curves where I like em, we fit together amazingly. I find her absolutely sexy (though not to the point where I could pull off telling her she is the sexiest woman in the world without it being insincere). I like thin as well, but I was with a thin woman for a few months before, and while that certainly did something for me, it was a passing novelty that expired quickly, or atleast it did in that relationship - I'd much rather have enthusiasm, maturity and kindness - the way she compliments me makes me feel... masculine, and that is something I value. And physically, she is absolutely stunning, not in a way that makes me go "I need to fck that" but in a way that makes me hear angels sing. When she flirts with me though, I definitely get riled up, and our flirtations get more and more natural feeling all the time (both of us are very lousy at flirting). So if there is a problem with her weight (or mine for that matter) it's not shameful, its just that we both probably tend to feel like we are not meeting our potential, physically speaking.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Ok well that's great then.

But it just doesn't, to me, fit with only wanting to have sex with her a couple of times a month. I guess I've just hit my empathy wall


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Also aren't you a pretty sexually open, potentially adventurous man? Are your particular sexual interests and desires being explored at all in the relationship?


I certainly don't feel like I've settled, but I do know each of us have some sadness about ourselves when we look in the mirror. She is as up for adventure as I say I am  and we are slowly throwing more and more fun adventurous things into the mix - we talk the talk and crawl the walk, lol. When it comes to talk, anything goes - when it comes to actually doing stuff we tend to be a little more reserved and content.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lon said:


> when it comes to actually doing stuff we tend to be a little more reserved and content.


You've always stricken me though as a guy who has lived a more reserved sexual life in practice, but not necessarily in desire.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Confessions from LD dudes.*



jaquen said:


> You've always stricken me though as a guy who has lived a more reserved sexual life in practice, but not necessarily in desire.


I live in my head, it's much easier to be sexually adventurous in fantasy, I'd have a long way to go to catch up in reality, and some things just wouldn't translate anyway.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lon said:


> I live in my head, it's much easier to be sexually adventurous in fantasy, I'd have a long way to go to catch up in reality, and some things just wouldn't translate anyway.



Well I hope you and your GF can find a way to explore some of those nooks and crannies. Not all of them, but enough that you can find out which fantasies would potentially serve you very well in the physical world.

Perhaps that too will lend itself to you wanting to have sex even more.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You can't orgasm from vaginal intercourse without a marathon?


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I can orgasm just fine from PIV. I don't know where you got that idea from.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lon, thank you for sharing this thread. There are actually a lot of men who are like you. They do not end up on TAM because this site isn't set up to draw in that type of "problem" or question. Instead, the wife of a man like you might show up if she is not satisfied with her sex life, but the husband usually won't show up here. I have personally known several men like you though, which has prompted me to do a lot of reading about sexuality in general...that's how I know there are a lot of men like you.

Just by sharing this, you can see most people want to talk you out of it or insist you have a "problem". Obviously this is why more men are not that open about it. You'll immediately get shamed and mocked for it. For women it is the opposite. I'm HD and I will get shamed and mocked if I come out and describe just how horny I am all the time. But I think that more of us who aren't in the narrow "average" zone of D should absolutely share more about ourselves so that people can be more understanding and stop thinking everyone has to be the same.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I don't remember the shaming. I'll take your word for it. I think there were a bunch of people trying to help Lon, who couldn't because he kept saying one thing and then the opposite. It sure seemed like that anyway. Everyone is pretty much confused as to what is wrong and in the end, everyone just gave up because there was really no problem. It was quite confusing. 


ETA: I knew what I liked when I got married the second time. I thought I had it. I knew my drive and what I wanted. I thought I had it. My issues surround accepting her lies or if not lies, drastic changes in her lifestyle that totally contrasted the woman I married. Either she changed or she hid it well. We dated and lived together for more than two years before marriage. I don't have a problem accepting what I like to do or how often. There are things I would have liked to try, but very few of them I would have done with her. She was too closed off to talk, but willing to follow someone's lead. She was too experienced for me. She knew and did quite a bit, but didn't have the guts to accept who she was. I never claimed I was anything other than who I am. If that wasn't enough time for her to figure out if I was right for her, I don't know what would have been. That makes me conclude she changed drastically and at the same time, could not talk about how she felt or what she wanted. That's terribly surprising when she was so promiscuous. Oh, that's not an evil or bad word, either. It just means she liked sex in a traditionally non-monogamous way.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Lon, explain your PIV comment please.

Because if there is a problem in that area it can be fixed. It just might take a while.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Just by sharing this, you can see most people want to talk you out of it or insist you have a "problem". Obviously this is why more men are not that open about it. You'll immediately get shamed and mocked for it. For women it is the opposite. I'm HD and I will get shamed and mocked if I come out and describe just how horny I am all the time. But I think that more of us who aren't in the narrow "average" zone of D should absolutely share more about ourselves so that people can be more understanding and stop thinking everyone has to be the same.


I don't think anyone was shaming him at all. In fact, we were all trying to understand where he was coming from. I quoted a few things he said from just the first 2 pages that seemed like he contradicted himself. Once he told me that him and his GF were totally happy and he was completely sure of that, I let it go. 

If he is LD, super. No one can change someone who doesn't want to have sex...male or female. The things he said within the first two pages didn't seem LD at all, but that he did in fact have a sex drive that was quite active...just not with his GF. 

That's the only reason why people came back to ask more questions. Not because he was being shamed for being LD, but because he has a very active drive and it didn't make sense.

But hey it's working for them I guess


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I agree with Staarz21, and others, that there has been an attempt to pin point exactly what Lon's purpose was with this thread. There are some seeming contradictions. Like an attempt to get help about something, yet when some digging starts the response is basically "everything is perfect".

But I also do think there is an undercurrent of shaming here, and it happens in these kinds of threads dealing with LD or potentially LD men. An attitude of "WHAT?! ALL men want sex all the time, so what's wrong with you??".


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I don't feel shamed, but I am intrigued why I feel so very alone in how I am, and why so many people find it perplexing how I can say I enjoy sex so much just don't need it constantly. The only "problem" I had was understanding why my experience doesn't match at all what I've read about the problem so many people talk about - according to many people's definition my relationship would be considered "sexless", but from how I feel about things the sex is fantastic.

I was just wondering what it's like for other guys that think of themselves as LD, but maybe no men really care to admit it, or that it can be satisfying. I think many people's idea of LD means no sexual appetite or interest at all, and I think I'm just trying to recast it in a different light, that it is perfectly OK to have a high interest in sex but not " need" to have partnered sex on a very frequent basis.

I by no means ever want to be abstinate, and as much as I find women constantly alluring I just dont think the best way of life for me is to seek sex, or intercourse with them constantly. If I was the one pursued I'd probably have a different approach towards it entirely, but my life is the way it is for good reason, because it suits me, some things I may wish to strive to change about myself as in self improvement, but I don't think being more sexually needy fits into it very well.

Maybe I'm just aging and priorities are changing, no longer driven by the biological urge to spread my seed, more interested in doing a good job helping see my son be a man and in turn a father to many healthy and happy children of his own.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Really think Lon is not telling us everything. That's hischoice. 
He can. Pm me if here is something else and it will be between us. I can help.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lon said:


> I don't feel shamed, but I am intrigued why I feel so very alone in how I am, and why so many people find it perplexing how I can say I enjoy sex so much just don't need it constantly. The only "problem" I had was understanding why my experience doesn't match at all what I've read about the problem so many people talk about - according to many people's definition my relationship would be considered "sexless", but from how I feel about things the sex is fantastic.
> 
> I was just wondering what it's like for other guys that think of themselves as LD, but maybe no men really care to admit it, or that it can be satisfying. I think many people's idea of LD means no sexual appetite or interest at all, and I think I'm just trying to recast it in a different light, that it is perfectly OK to have a high interest in sex but not " need" to have partnered sex on a very frequent basis.
> 
> ...


I don't think this is anywhere near as uncommon as you might imagine.

There is a silence around this. The myth perpetuated is that all men want sex all the time. That is far from the truth. But as men often struggle to remain manly and masculine in the eyes of others, or at least the idea of what those notions are, men who swerve from the myth often just keep their mouths shut in fear of being seen as less than.

Statistically speaking there tens of millions of men, in this country alone, who aren't having sex regularly. And all of them are not because they're with a LD/ND partner. 

Now that you've clarified your intent I commend you for putting yourself out there. I think a lot of people can relate, even if they don't speak up about it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Never and always are lies. Nothing in this world never happens or always happens. Even though the sun comes up every day for billions of years, one day it will not. That's not always. 

Even though you got every day for six months straight, there will be a day when one of you says, I'm sick. I can't today. I will vomit on you. That is not always getting sex.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

My BF is low drive. But he is also overweight and doesn't sleep worth a crap at night. He tells me that he performs better if I don't "pressure" him. So I quit saying anything. And we didn't do a single thing for over 2 weeks (meanwhile I"m getting more and more anxious.) Finally I told him flat out he needed to touch me. I was promised two nights in a row with nothing.....then FINALLY on the third day after I told him that he followed through.

Everyone wants to feel desired. Sigh....

But I digress. We too, have an open line of communication but sometimes it does get hard for me to say exactly how I feel. Because he IS so comfortable having LD like you say you are......I don't want to come across as judgemental or "degrading" or whatever. Add that on top of him telling me that I shouldn't pressure him.....and then HE brings it up. Telling me that he knows its been a while, maybe I should go find a side deal (yes, he has actually said that. Dunno if he means it.)

Ugh. Hopefully one day we will get it figured out. At least it's not a deal breaker to me. It's just irritating.

My point with the unintentional hyjack is that you are not alone. LOL!


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

If you aren't happy with the frequency it isn't going to get better so why continue to see him?


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