# Another Violent Episode After Reconciliation...I Don't Think I Can Do This Anymore



## Carl Jensen (10 mo ago)

I posted my story back in March 2022 








Plagued With Ambivalence on Leaving the Relationship


First, I want to say thank you to all the members on this forum. Just reading has been helpful. Now I feel compelled to tell my story in hopes that I can get some feedback. I am crippled with indecision on leaving my marriage of 10 years. 2 kids (7 and 4). On paper, we are great. Nice...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





10 Year Marriage 
2 Kids. 7M. 4M 

Things have been up and down for 2-3 years now. Most of the details are in that original post. I have many issues with my partner/ marriage, however the outburst that occur about every 4-5 months have reached a breaking point for me. I believe deep down she is a good person, however she gets very angry sometimes when her needs are not being met in the relationship. The downward spiral usually goes like this, we get in an argument, we both feel negative, I usually keep to myself afterwards and sometimes have to set boundaries, she feels unloved because of the boundaries, she has a few drinks, she gets angry and blows up. 

2.5 years ago she hit me in the face with her fist and called the police...on me. I decided to stay in the marriage with the hopes that she could work out her issues. We also had a young kid at the time. I said I would be out if it happened again. She promised to go to therapy. Did a few (2-3) session but dropped off, then blamed it on COVID (incident happened ~ 4 months before COVID actually hit so hard to buy that). No books, no online classes, no support forums. She has screamed at me since then and threatened divorce but never anything physically violent, until two days ago. 

We are 4 months into a reconciliation and two days ago she got upset and kicked me out of the bedroom, then the entire house. I obliged and started to pack my bag calmly. She threw a ceramic shoe at the wall next to me then proceeded to block my exit from the house by grabbing me and pulling my bag away from me. I stayed clam and didn't raise my voice. I told her not to touch me. She knocked everything off my dresser and threw some other stuff. She then ran downstairs and stood in front of the door. I pleaded for her to let me leave because I didn't feel safe there anymore. Grabbed me again. She didn't budge for a while then finally moved when she realized I wasn't backing down. She then threatened suicide and said that I was causing all this. Then she broke down and apologized profusely. I left. 

Per my counselor's direction, I've been out of the house for 2 days with kids. I took the guns out of the house. Wife emailed me today with an apology and a "contract" to re-engage in the marriage. It includes anger management and promises to see counselors weekly. Some other things in there also. I've been holding on so tight for my kids and the hopes that things could change between us. I was actually excited and hopeful as we have had some decent moments of progress during the last 4 months. Not sure how this episode even happened. It's like it came out of nowhere. We were laying in bed one minute talking then boom. 

I want to want to reengage, but I'm not sure if my heart is in it now. I see my two boys and I just break down thinking about how I wanted them to be raised in a complete family. I come from a broken home and I promised myself that I wouldn't allow that to happen to me. I am leaning toward divorce, but I am so scared. I am debilitatingly sad. I feel like a failure as a father and a husband. Never thought I would be here. 

Any advice would be helpful. Not sure where to go from here. 

Thanks,

Carl


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Carl Jensen

I have a lot I’d like to say to you but it will have to wait until morning. I will encourage you with this, though: Do what you must to be *safe*. That is your primary and only “mission” tonight. No final decision has to be made right now, and all you need to focus on is making sure you and your children are safe.

Are you safe?
Are you children safe?

If so, then you have done a GOOD JOB as a a man and father. Just trust in that tonight and I will write more to you in the morning.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Carl Jensen said:


> It includes anger management and promises to see counselors weekly. Some other things in there also.


Giving up alcohol?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Violence is violence & it's unacceptable. I applaud you for staying calm in the recent incident. Good for you! 

This was her second chance & she blew it. You have to get out for your own safety & the safety of your children. Right now she is an unfit parent & partner. If she's genuinely suicidal, call the police & get her put on a 72 hour psych hold but your 1st priority has to be protecting you & your kids.


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

Carl Jensen said:


> Not sure how this episode even happened. It's like it came out of nowhere. We were laying in bed one minute talking then boom.


I know you mentioned alcohol, but it doesn't sound like she was drinking here. Does she exhibit cluster B personality traits? Did it really come out of nowhere? What I mean is think back to other arguments. Has she ever planned an argument by doing things like hiding your phone or keys before?


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Do not go back to her until she has completed at least six months of therapy, anger management and no alcohol. Do not go back on her promises to go because she will quit or go back on her word as soon as you are back in the house. She has done so before and she will do so again. You have to do this for your own safety and for the safety of your children


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## Carl Jensen (10 mo ago)

Laurentium said:


> Giving up alcohol?


She said she would not drink when she is upset anymore. Didn't offer to give it up all together.


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## Carl Jensen (10 mo ago)

AlwaysImproving said:


> I know you mentioned alcohol, but it doesn't sound like she was drinking here. Does she exhibit cluster B personality traits? Did it really come out of nowhere? What I mean is think back to other arguments. Has she ever planned an argument by doing things like hiding your phone or keys before?


She had a few drinks the other night when it happened. She doesn't exhibit signs of what I would call alcoholism, but she does tend to drink a little more when she is upset. She does not do things to start arguments like hide keys. She does pick fights when she is upset then makes them about larger issues. Dishes didn't get take out of dishwasher turns quickly into, "You don't really love me"


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## Carl Jensen (10 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> Violence is violence & it's unacceptable. I applaud you for staying calm in the recent incident. Good for you!
> 
> This was her second chance & she blew it. You have to get out for your own safety & the safety of your children. Right now she is an unfit parent & partner. If she's genuinely suicidal, call the police & get her put on a 72 hour psych hold but your 1st priority has to be protecting you & your kids.


I called the police the next day to do a wellness check on her. She was pissed that I did it, but I didn't care at that point. She checked out and I confirmed that she was able to talk to her individual therapist that day also. No risk of harming herself. Frist and foremost, I am relived that she is not at risk of harming herself. Same time I am appalled that now I know she used that as leverage to try to keep me in the house. She even told me later that she "really didn't mean it". Seems so petty and cruel to play that card, especially when kids are involved (and within earshot).


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I’m sorry you’re stuck in all of this, but for your own safety and that of your kids, you need to leave this relationship. Hopefully she gets the help she needs but you’re not safe there. Not only regarding your physical safety but she sounds dangerous in that she’ll call the police and twist the story so you’ll be arrested. That’s so sad.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I agree. 

It will be better for your children if you leave this relationship and put your energy into co parenting as divorced parents.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Carl Jensen said:


> I called the police the next day to do a wellness check on her. She was pissed that I did it, but I didn't care at that point. She checked out and I confirmed that she was able to talk to her individual therapist that day also. No risk of harming herself. Frist and foremost, I am relived that she is not at risk of harming herself. Same time I am appalled that now I know she used that as leverage to try to keep me in the house. She even told me later that she "really didn't mean it". Seems so petty and cruel to play that card, especially when kids are involved (and within earshot).


The horrible thing about people who do that is that the ones who are genuinely suicidal can't be trusted that they are sincere and may die because of people like this who fake it to get their way or for attention.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

AlwaysImproving said:


> I know you mentioned alcohol, but it doesn't sound like she was drinking here. Does she exhibit cluster B personality traits? Did it really come out of nowhere? What I mean is think back to other arguments. Has she ever planned an argument by doing things like hiding your phone or keys before?


It does sound like she's on the spectrum...

OP - is it really every 4-5 months this kind of thing occurs? 

I ask because when I finally started to document how often I'd fight with my ex, I was shocked by frequency. I'd note when we'd fight, how long she'd subject me to "silent treatment" & what started it, because I'm a bit of an optimist, and would forget. And also because the angry outbursts would seem to come out of nowhere, and I'd be sitting there a half hour later wondering what the hell happened.

It shocked me when I looked back over months I remembered as "calm" and saw that we'd still be either fighting or not speaking for close to 1/3 of the month. 

Bad months were closer to 1/2 the time. 

And - almost needless to say - there was NOTHING to fight about... we had money, we both had good jobs, everyone was healthy, we brought her mom to live with us (as she demanded), and we still split childcare duties.


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## Carl Jensen (10 mo ago)

Reluctant Texan said:


> It does sound like she's on the spectrum...
> 
> OP - is it really every 4-5 months this kind of thing occurs?
> 
> ...


It's about that on average. It seems like a pressure release valve. It builds up for her I guess and it all comes out. She is "sorry" afterwards and promises to improve. We work on things/ counseling and it seems to die down a bit. Then fall back into old habits. Another 4-5 months or so and it blows up again. 

I am the calm one and try to deescalate every time. I don't really get sucked into it when it happens, I just try to exit the area. Most of the time it is the entire house. I could start tracking the days in the month as "good" or " hostile". I bet it would be 1/3 hostile or uncomfortable.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi @Carl Jensen ,

I'm so sorry this post is so late. I've had a challenging day at the office and it looks like this may be one of those nights where I bring some work home with me. * sigh * Oh well, it happens. We have a BIG, MAJOR software implementation this week, and I will no doubt be burning the candle on both ends.

Anyway, I'm taking a brain break and I want to take the time to reply. You wrote:



Carl Jensen said:


> ...
> Things have been up and down for 2-3 years now. Most of the details are in that original post. I have many issues with my partner/ marriage, however the outburst that occur about every 4-5 months have reached a breaking point for me. I believe deep down she is a good person, however she gets very angry sometimes when her needs are not being met in the relationship. The downward spiral usually goes like this, we get in an argument, we both feel negative, I usually keep to myself afterwards and sometimes have to set boundaries, she feels unloved because of the boundaries, she has a few drinks, she gets angry and blows up.


Carl, when a person doesn't respect your boundaries, that doesn't mean you are "unloving." That means they are manipulative, narcississtic, or have an EXTREMELY poor sense of self-worth...none of which has anything to do with you. That is to say, you are NOT the cause of any of those things.

I found this article a bit helpful in thinking about how to deal with someone who is disrespecting your boundaries: How to Deal with People Who Repeatedly Violate Your Boundaries The most helpful point in the article, in my opinion, is to write your boundaries down, because that means in order to write them, you'll have to actually think about them and verbalize them. And remember, a boundary is not "telling her what she can and can't do" but rather "declaring for yourself what you will and will not accept" in your life. For example, your boundary wouldn't be "You can't hit me anymore" (that's telling her what to do) but rather "I will not accept a partner in my life who is physically abusive." That's about YOU and what you will and will not accept!

Also, I think there's a reason why it seems like every 4 months or so she "blows up"--that's because there is a cycle to abuse.









You are literally experiencing this cycle, over and over again.



> 2.5 years ago she hit me in the face with her fist and called the police...on me. I decided to stay in the marriage with the hopes that she could work out her issues. We also had a young kid at the time. I said I would be out if it happened again. She promised to go to therapy. Did a few (2-3) session but dropped off, then blamed it on COVID (incident happened ~ 4 months before COVID actually hit so hard to buy that). No books, no online classes, no support forums. She has screamed at me since then and threatened divorce but never anything physically violent, until two days ago.


Hmmmm... are you aware that screaming at you is verbal/emotional/mental abuse? Are you aware that making threats is verbal/emotional/mental abuse? My favorite site to learn about verbal abuse is Dr. Irene's Verbal Abuse Site: Welcome to Dr. Irene's Verbal Abuse Site|Dr. Irene's Verbal Abuse (Site)! I like it because the mascot is a cat, and it doesn't feel as overwhelming to read about when there is a cat on the page. Silly, I know, but there it is! She has all kinds of good info, like under "Verbal Abuse" she talks about what it is, gives examples, describes what a healthy interaction looks like, etc. Under "The Abuser" she talks about why people verbally abuse, and who does it, and being controlling, and what real recovery looks like. Under "The Victim" there's more good info--probably about you! LOL Anyway, roam around on that site--you'll learn something.



> We are 4 months into a reconciliation and two days ago she got upset and kicked me out of the bedroom, then the entire house. I obliged and started to pack my bag calmly. She threw a ceramic shoe at the wall next to me then proceeded to block my exit from the house by grabbing me and pulling my bag away from me. I stayed clam and didn't raise my voice. I told her not to touch me. She knocked everything off my dresser and threw some other stuff. She then ran downstairs and stood in front of the door. I pleaded for her to let me leave because I didn't feel safe there anymore. Grabbed me again. She didn't budge for a while then finally moved when she realized I wasn't backing down. She then threatened suicide and said that I was causing all this. Then she broke down and apologized profusely. I left.


Well...can you see in the cycle where you are? She clearly abused you. She said abusive things and "kicked you out" and you took her at her word and did what she told you. Then she got PHYSICALLY abusive. Yes, throwing things at you and "just missing" is meant to be intimidating and a threat (next time, I could hit you). Blocking the exit is also Physical Abuse...did you know that? So is grabbing you and pulling the bag because it was on your arm or shoulder and could have hurt you. Now I don't know about you, but I always thought physical abuse was balling up your fist and punching me. Since my exH never actually punched me, I never considered that what he was doing could be physical abuse...I just never thought of that as an option. But here's a list of some things that ARE physical abuse: Examples of Abuse Knocking everything off your dresser is physical abuse. Throwing things and destroying property is physical abuse.

To put it simply, in the moment she wants to FORCE you to do something, and she uses verbal abuse and when that doesn't work, she ups the anty to physical threats and intimidation. And when that doesn't work she pulls the ultimate threat of killing herself if you... And when that doesn't work, she moves down the cycle to regret, apologies, and promises. Can you see it now?



> Per my counselor's direction, I've been out of the house for 2 days with kids. I took the guns out of the house. Wife emailed me today with an apology and a "contract" to re-engage in the marriage. It includes anger management and promises to see counselors weekly. Some other things in there also. I've been holding on so tight for my kids and the hopes that things could change between us. I was actually excited and hopeful as we have had some decent moments of progress during the last 4 months. Not sure how this episode even happened. It's like it came out of nowhere. We were laying in bed one minute talking then boom.


#1 I would say listen to your counselor. Yes, call them and talk, today or tomorrow, because this is an emergency. It's okay...this is what emergency, after-hours contact is for. Regarding your wife's email... my strongest recommendation to you would be to look at her actions and not her words. Words are either squiggly black lines on a white background (writing) or puffs of hot air across vocal chords. That is ALL THEY ARE! They don't mean much. What DOES mean something is actions. I wouldn't re-engage with her at all until you see her actually following through on what she wrote for a considerable time. For example, if you don't "remind her" and "take her" and "help her do her counseling homework"... does she get her own butt to the sessions? Does she take the counseling to heart? Is she doing the homework and practicing what the counselor says to do... ON HER OWN? When a person wants to change, that's what it looks like. They don't brag and make a bunch of promises--they KNUCKLE DOWN AND DO IT!! You can see them practicing something different. Sometimes they don't do a great job, but that's okay--they are trying something new and not great at it yet! But they DO IT. There is a passion to pursue it on their own because they have a deep desire to not be this way anymore. So when you've seen consistency for ... like a year. When you've seen her pursue it because whether you stay or go, she so badly wants to get better. When you see words and actions matching for a year! THEN it may be real. Until then, it's not real. She's just trying to get you to re-engage in the cycle and is in the "regret, promises, apology" stage (I call that "The Honeymoon" because they lure you back in with promises and romance etc.)



> I want to want to reengage, but I'm not sure if my heart is in it now. I see my two boys and I just break down thinking about how I wanted them to be raised in a complete family. I come from a broken home and I promised myself that I wouldn't allow that to happen to me. I am leaning toward divorce, but I am so scared. I am debilitatingly sad. I feel like a failure as a father and a husband. Never thought I would be here.


I would like to encourage you, @Carl Jensen -- YOU are not a failure as a father OR a husband. You tried to make it work for your children's sakes. You hung in when it was tough and took the hit so they wouldn't have to. You kept on trying and trying and trying with a spouse who was abusive. YOU were strong, actually. But in your dream, there are two mentally and emotionally healthy adults raising your boys. That is not reality. And that's the part that is so hurtful. You want...you WISH...your partner wanted to be mentally healthy and mature. She is not. Right now she is dangerous to you and to your boys. The most loving, kind thing you can do for her is to allow her to experience the natural results of her choices to not seek help for herself. The most loving, kind thing you can do for your children and yourself it to love yourself and them enough to KEEP EVERYONE SAFE -- and that's physically and mentally/emotionally! It does emotionally harm the children to see their parents in a physical row. So read up on Dr. Irene's site and allow her some time and space to take care of herself IF SHE IS GOING TO DO THAT. If not, it's best for you to not be in harm's way.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

As a half Irish half Italian guy who's been dealing with women like your wife since I was born I can tell you right now that constantly trying to deescalate is one of the worst things you can do. She wants an emotional reaction out of you and she won't stop until she gets it.

So if you want to keep your marriage together and you love her enough to potentially deal with the social stigma of being a guy who tells a woman to "shut the f up" then next time she gets drunk and belligerent with you, tell her to shut the f up. Don't ever hit her but unleash your inner lion and give her the reaction she wants. Show her you love her enough to teach her that behavior isn't acceptable.

Either that or just maintain the moral high ground. Divorce her and tell everyone what an abused spouse you were. Whatever outcome you prefer it's up to you.


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## Carl Jensen (10 mo ago)

Affaircare said:


> Hi @Carl Jensen ,
> 
> I'm so sorry this post is so late. I've had a challenging day at the office and it looks like this may be one of those nights where I bring some work home with me. * sigh * Oh well, it happens. We have a BIG, MAJOR software implementation this week, and I will no doubt be burning the candle on both ends.
> 
> ...


@Affaircare 

I can't even explain how impactful this post was to me. I literally had to sit down to read it. The abuse cycle fits my situation 100% and it was almost surreal to see it like that visually. It's so hard to be in this and so emotionally invested in the kids/family unit. If my friend was in this situation, I would tell him to bail. Harder for me to take my own advice. I also struggle knowing that I could have been a better husband/ partner. I logically acknowledge that she did this. Emotionally, I struggle with some of the ownership. You did such a good job putting this into perspective for me. I will take these words with me as I make some tough decisions in the near future. I am currently back in the house living in the guest bedroom. I pray that this will not happen again. I don't want that for the kids. They have already endured this for too long.


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## Carl Jensen (10 mo ago)

Affaircare said:


> Hi @Carl Jensen ,
> 
> I'm so sorry this post is so late. I've had a challenging day at the office and it looks like this may be one of those nights where I bring some work home with me. * sigh * Oh well, it happens. We have a BIG, MAJOR software implementation this week, and I will no doubt be burning the candle on both ends.
> 
> ...


Also, I did communicate my "bottom lines" back in April when we reconciled:

*____*
For me, bottom lines are solid boundaries that are not to be crossed under any circumstance. The signal a complete lack of value in the marriage and will be the end for me. If any of these bottom lines are crossed, I will end the marriage.



Physical attacks
Hitting with hands 
Throwing items 
Hitting with objects 

Screaming 
Name Calling 
Saying “ I want a divorce” 
Saying “ I am quitting Counseling” 
Using blatantly hurtful language
“Ex “kids won’t miss you”
“We are better off without you”


*__*

Unfortunately she did most of these last Thursday. She's had this email communicating my bottom lines for about 4 months now. Hard to say that she was not aware. I've verbally told her this many times before this. I feel like a fool, because this was the 4th or so time I've had to explain them. First time shame on you. Second, shame on me type thing. Third, Fourth, Fifth.....I feel like I am not being true to myself. Same time I want to try to see if this can work. So hard


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

There comes a time when you can clarify yourself only so much. It shows two things to the other person.. one is you don't have any boundaries, and two is you don't have any respect for yourself. 

My Ex pretty much told me to get lost. I tried to get her back, she I think welcomed it, but too any things were obstacles to that happening.. the second time she told me to get lost, I got lost. If anything, I respected her boundaries, and I respected myself by working on moving on. Pressing further just makes the whole situation worse.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Carl Jensen said:


> @Affaircare
> 
> I can't even explain how impactful this post was to me. I literally had to sit down to read it. The abuse cycle fits my situation 100% and it was almost surreal to see it like that visually. It's so hard to be in this and so emotionally invested in the kids/family unit. If my friend was in this situation, I would tell him to bail. Harder for me to take my own advice. *I also struggle knowing that I could have been a better husband/ partner. I logically acknowledge that she did this. Emotionally, I struggle with some of the ownership. *You did such a good job putting this into perspective for me. I will take these words with me as I make some tough decisions in the near future. I am currently back in the house living in the guest bedroom. I pray that this will not happen again. I don't want that for the kids. They have already endured this for too long.


@Carl Jensen ,

You're welcome! I only write to you like this because I've been there/done that and even got the t-shirt! LOL

I'd like to address two things: the part I bolded and being back in the house "praying it won't happen again."

*Looking at the part I bolded above*, I would very kindly say this: this is not 100% her being abusive and "oh poor you" you are the innocent victim. In a relationship, people relate and participate. So in this relationship ("the marriage") I think of it as a Dance. She does Step 1, and you counter with Step A...she does Step 2 and you counter with Step B...she does Step 3 and you counter with Step C (and so on). You are also part of the Dance. So to illustrate this, let me post another Cycle of Abuse for you: The Cycle of Abuse - Green Haven 4 Help

She Explodes - You Try to Calm/Try to Reason/Leave
She Honeymoons you - You Return/Set up Counseling/Feel Hope
She Gets Tense/Moody/Drinks - You Agree/Keep Kids Quiet/Walk on Eggshells

Lather-Rinse-Repeat. And each time it repeats, the cycle gets a little more intense. It doesn't spiral downward into more and more peace and calm--it spirals upward into worse abuse, longer honeymoons to pull you back in, and worse moodiness and tension. Until eventually, YOU will end up in the hospital. Oh she won't "mean to" break your arm or stab you, but it happens. I even had a friend who stayed with her abusive boyfriend, and he killed her. He didn't "mean to" but she is still just as dead no matter what his intention was!

So the part you own is not that you "cause" her to be angry, and if only you could get it right and live by her rules, she wouldn't "have to" yell at you, demean you, berate you, and physically threaten you. Nope. That's not your ownership. But what IS your ownership is that you do keep doing Step A, B, and C. You keep trying to be calm and reason with her. You keep leaving. You keep returning. You keep looking at what you HOPE happens versus what IS happening! You tolerate and accept unacceptable treatment. You teach the kids it is their job to "not make mom angry or else." You keep doing Steps A, B, and C hoping for a different result. The only way you'll get a different result is if you stop doing Steps A, B, and C. Now she may still try Step 1 and when you do something different, she'll keep trying a step or move to Step 2 and keep trying to get you to do Step A. That's how the Dance works, dammit!! LOL But your job is to learn AND DO different steps--or stop dancing altogether.

Along this journey, I'd recommend two things: 1) Read The Victim Pages|Dr. Irene's Verbal Abuse (Site)! and 2) When you are in your own individual counseling, see if you and the counselor can brainstorm DIFFERENT, HEALTHY steps and responses to her Step 1, Step 2, and Step 3.

*Next, discussion being back in the house "praying it won't happen again" for the kids.* I'm going to challenge you. You are living on HOPE rather than living in REALITY. You "hope" she doesn't physically abuse you again. You "hope" she "means it this time." You "hope" she wants to be a better wife and mother. Hope...Hope...Hope!!! But none of that is REAL.

Reality is that she has already demonstrated to you that she knows your boundaries and is ready, willing, and able to trample all over them! She has done is SEVERAL times. Reality is that if she meant it, she would have already been getting her own self to counseling and working the work! Reality is that if she wanted to be a better wife, there are plenty of books, retreats, and stuff on the internet that she could have started with, and she hasn't. Reality is that if she wanted to be a better mother, she would have seen that her anger was beyond what the situation required and said, "Wow I want to change that about myself so I'm going to go talk to a professional about that to protect my kids from my own weakness." I know! I did that! Edited to add: There is a reality that is kind of hard to hear. Can she control herself and not hit a police officer? Can she control herself and not become physically violent in the store or in public? Can she control herself and not grab or push someone who is in authority over her (say a boss, a parent, or even a girlfriend)? If so, then she HAS THE ABILITY to control herself around you too...she just chooses not to do it. That is REALITY. * sigh * Stings, huh?

So I would strongly encourage you to act based on REALITY rather that acting based on HOPE. For her sake, as well as yours and the kids, I would pray that she'd have a wake up call and get better. But at this point she has laid her hands on you and been physically abusive, and since there has been no ACTION to consistently demonstrate change or the ability to cope without physical abuse when things get tough, I'd have to caution you that the most likely outcome at this time is continued physical abuse.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What she learned from those boundaries is that she can cross them and life just continues on. That’s obviously not the message you want to send.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Unfortunately when dealing with other people, fiesty women in particular, sending them an email with your red lines doesn't do much good. You might as well wipe your butt with the digital paper it's written on.

In this case it wasn't like your wife just randomly ran up behind you and punched you in the head like you live in New York city. There were a series of events that escalated into her whacking you. You responded to those events by attempting to deescalate, not understanding you were actually making the situation worse by not standing up for yourself.

If you really still want your marriage to work you can get to a place where she doesn't cross your red lines. By standing up for yourself before she whacks you. But if you start buying into all this cycle of abuse stuff, casting yourself as the victim and her the perpetrator, you're just going to keep repeating the same cycles and getting the same end result. Even if you end up with another woman.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

What are *you* getting out of keeping yourself in this situation? Drop the hopium pipe.


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## Carl Jensen (10 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> What are *you* getting out of keeping yourself in this situation? Drop the hopium pipe.


I'm deep in the hopium den. I admit it. I'm the f-ing Nikki Sixx of hopium abuse right now. It's why I have held on so long. I am holding on to the prospect of a future with a complete family for my kids. I'm starting to realize that this situation could be worse than a divorce where we can show them positive relationships. I would be telling anyone else to bail. I just wanted this to work so bad


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Carl Jensen said:


> I'm deep in the hopium den. I admit it. I'm the f-ing Nikki Sixx of hopium abuse right now. It's why I have held on so long. I am holding on to the prospect of a future with a complete family for my kids. I'm starting to realize that this situation could be worse than a divorce where we can show them positive relationships. I would be telling anyone else to bail. I just wanted this to work so bad


That was my initial hope as well.

As I learned when the abusive conduct takes place in front of kids, you're harming them, and validating an otherwise dysfunctional relationship. 

I didn't want my kids growing up thinking it was normal to have a spouse constantly trashing you, picking fights out of the blue, and screaming/raging at you for no reason. 

I figured even though I'd see my kids less after a divorce, and wouldn't be there to "protect" them, I could at least give them periods of calm and peace when they were with me. And to the extent my ex- and I were fighting in front of them - which I tried to shield them from, but could not control her - I wasn't really protecting them anyway.

It was a hard decision, but I don't regret it. I only regret not fighting for more time and custody with them, instead of conceding at what I was allowed by statute.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

When your wife called the police on you, after she attacked you, did you press charges? Is there a police report? Please explain the outcome.

It know it's difficult to press charges against one's spouse, but that is one of the biggest mistakes an abused spouse can make when they have children. If you don't have proof of the abuse, the court can't use it in the decision making process. I have a feeling that you're going to let her come back. She will do this again. Please - next time call 911, file a report, and press charges, then get a restraining order and file for divorce. It is your job to keep your children safe. If she's violent with you, she will most likely become violent with the children.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Children who grow up seeing a dysfunctional marriage tend to repeat it. I did. So did my child.


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## Carl Jensen (10 mo ago)

Wanted to provide an update on this. I retained a lawyer today and got the ball rolling on divorce. I want to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts here. It has given me strength to do what I know I needed to do for my kids and myself. My wife is a good person and I don't think these violent outbursts are representative of who she is, however she has not made any steps to fix this in the last 3 years. I don't want to get back on the ride. I am scared, but mostly hopeful that I will be able to start a new chapter in my life that does not involve such negativity. My kids deserve to see something better.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Carl Jensen said:


> Wanted to provide an update on this. I retained a lawyer today and got the ball rolling on divorce. I want to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts here. It has given me strength to do what I know I needed to do for my kids and myself. My wife is a good person and I don't think these violent outbursts are representative of who she is, however she has not made any steps to fix this in the last 3 years. I don't want to get back on the ride. I am scared, but mostly hopeful that I will be able to start a new chapter in my life that does not involve such negativity. My kids deserve to see something better.


Violent outbursts for 3 years isn't going to get better. Glad you are moving on to protect yourself and your kids.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Carl Jensen said:


> ... My wife is a good person and I don't think these violent outbursts are representative of who she is, however she has not made any steps to fix this in the last 3 years. ...


Stop thinking like that; you're going into adversarial proceedings against her. You can get burned very easily, and you may (you likely will) see a much bitter, aggressive, and desperate acts from her.

Change your mindset here: She's been violent to her spouse, and refused to get help or address her behavior to save her marriage or her family. That's all you need to know about her.

I'm not saying you need to be cruel or vindictive back, but you absolute should not concede anything to her, or compromise in any ways that give her authority or say over your future life and your kids' lives.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Carl Jensen said:


> Wanted to provide an update on this. I retained a lawyer today and got the ball rolling on divorce. I want to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts here. It has given me strength to do what I know I needed to do for my kids and myself. My wife is a good person and I don't think these violent outbursts are representative of who she is, however she has not made any steps to fix this in the last 3 years. I don't want to get back on the ride. I am scared, but mostly hopeful that I will be able to start a new chapter in my life that does not involve such negativity. My kids deserve to see something better.


This is great news and now you can focus on moving forward to a happier and healthier life. I've witnessed the strongest of men be destroyed because of violent women, because a man should never hit a woman. They have also left and getting lots of support. Don't fall for her tears, she WILL NEVER change. Wishing you and your children the best.

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