# Lending Money to friends



## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

I am very fortunate to find myself engaged to a very hard working man, who will lose sleep to make sure I am provided for. We have been together for 7 + years. We are planning to get married as soon as I graduate college and save the money up. 

Lets call him G. He has a friend, I will call M for the sake of my query. G has known M for 15 years. M has been kid of a sloppy man child for as long as I have been with G. M even lived with us off and on during the first five years together, barely contributing financially and not being very much help otherwise. I moved out for a time because I got tired of it and eventually moved back after G kicked him out and we started resolving some of our other problems. M is doing better now and lives with his mother. They all work together. M's mother recently contacted G because they need financial help. Again. How too grown adults cannot manage money, I don't understand. G feels obligated to help because they are like family to him and also he thinks they will lose their home if he doesn't and have to rely on us again for shelter. The people who raised G live several states away so he feels more connected to these people for some reason. I have told him that I would prefer he give them tough love and let them work it out the same way we would have to. We don't know if they will even pay him back. Of course we had a fight about it and I am ready to throw my hands up and tell G to do want he wants but I don't want to hear him complain that he doesn't have money. 

What should I say or do? 

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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

ladyphoenix84 said:


> I am very fortunate to find myself engaged to a very hard working man, who will lose sleep to make sure I am provided for. We have been together for 7 + years. We are planning to get married as soon as I graduate college and save the money up.
> 
> Lets call him G. He has a friend, I will call M for the sake of my query. G has known M for 15 years. M has been kid of a sloppy man child for as long as I have been with G. M even lived with us off and on during the first five years together, barely contributing financially and not being very much help otherwise. I moved out for a time because I got tired of it and eventually moved back after G kicked him out and we started resolving some of our other problems. M is doing better now and lives with his mother. They all work together. M's mother recently contacted G because they need financial help. Again. How too grown adults cannot manage money, I don't understand. G feels obligated to help because they are like family to him and also he thinks they will lose their home if he doesn't and have to rely on us again for shelter. The people who raised G live several states away so he feels more connected to these people for some reason. I have told him that I would prefer he give them tough love and let them work it out the same way we would have to. We don't know if they will even pay him back. Of course we had a fight about it and I am ready to throw my hands up and tell G to do want he wants but I don't want to hear him complain that he doesn't have money.
> 
> ...


Is it a large sum of money or is it inconsequential.Do you resent the act more than the sum involved.


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## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> Is it a large sum of money or is it inconsequential.Do you resent the act more than the sum involved.


$500. I would consider that somewhat large.

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## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

I resent the act, yes. I feel it is somewhat a betrayal as we have things we need to save up money for if we hope to accomplish them, such as have a wedding and buy a house 

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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Lending money to anyone? I wouldn't do it. Giving it as a gift? Meh - I might, depending on the situation.

But not yours. 

You already know this friend probably isn't going to pay you back, and it's causing problems in your relationship with your fiancé. 

So, the only person you can control is you - yes? I think it would be a really good idea to sort out both of your financial philosophies BEFORE you get married, so that you're in agreement about money.

Personally, I have no debt, and living without debt is a huge priority for me. I wouldn't marry someone who was sloppy in this area.

I don't like power struggles, and you're already - prior to being married - in one.


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## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

minimalME said:


> Lending money to anyone? I wouldn't do it. Giving it as a gift? Meh - I might, depending on the situation.
> 
> But not yours.
> 
> ...


Duly noted. It is a "power struggle" which shouldn't be. We keep separate accounts because I need to feel in control of my own money. There was a time that we didn't and things were not good then. He feels that because he is the breadwinner, he has the power. (Which sounds like expecting special treatment or praise for doing what is expected of you to begin with. Sorry for sounding old fashioned.) I pay my own bills and contribute some to household bills. 



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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Do you know why they need this money? Are they both working?


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## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Do you know why they need this money? Are they both working?


M and his mother both work. Their issue is that hours got cut and they are behind on their rent. My point is that G would never let that happen. If he wasn't getting hours he would find a way to get up the needed funds. This is what they should have done and it is sad that I am talking and a 30 yr old "man" and his 60ish mother. It isn't rocket science. Or maybe they don't put in the extra effort because they know they can call G. 

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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ladyphoenix84 said:


> M and his mother both work. Their issue is that hours got cut and they are behind on their rent. My point is that G would never let that happen. If he wasn't getting hours he would find a way to get up the needed funds. This is what they should have done and it is sad that I am talking and a 30 yr old "man" and his 60ish mother. It isn't rocket science. Or maybe they don't put in the extra effort because they know they can call G.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Personally I think that 2 adults sharing a place can surely afford the rent between them? if not how will they pay it after the money your fiancé gives them runs out? 
I like helping people who are in real need, but these are healthy adults who should be responsible for their own lives. Do they drink? Smoke? Get takeaways?


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## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Personally I think that 2 adults sharing a place can surely afford the rent between them? if not how will they pay it after the money your fiancé gives them runs out?
> I like helping people who are in real need, but these are healthy adults who should be responsible for their own lives. Do they drink? Smoke? Get takeaways?


They smoke like chimneys! And get plenty of take away! 

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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ladyphoenix84 said:


> They smoke like chimneys! And get plenty of take away!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Ok then they don't need his money. They just need to cut down on smoking and takeaways and they will have enough. Smoking is very expensive. Cooking meals is much cheaper and healthier. 
They seem very irresponsible to be honest and he is enabling it. However you cant stop him giving them money especially as you aren't married as yet. I think that once you are married you need make sure that any decision like this must be agreed by both of you.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

ladyphoenix84 said:


> Duly noted. It is a "power struggle" which shouldn't be. We keep separate accounts because I need to feel in control of my own money. There was a time that we didn't and things were not good then. He feels that because he is the breadwinner, he has the power. (Which sounds like expecting special treatment or praise for doing what is expected of you to begin with. Sorry for sounding old fashioned.) I pay my own bills and contribute some to household bills.


Okay. So you'll each have your own account and do your own thing - in terms of spending? You'll be in control of your money, and he'll control his? 

Then he's free to lend money to his friend without your approval. And your free to not marry him.

Seriously, now is the time to work on these problems, because it goes much deeper than loaning money to a friend.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Well what happens when next months rent is due. Are they going to need another 500 bucks?

If they have a plan to make next months rent then I woulc help but I would be clear as a bell that this is all I could help and even this much help is a huge sacrifice.


500 dollars isn't very much and if he can afford to GIVE it to them and if there good long term friends then well thats what friends do.

But I get the feeling that their really not that close. And this friend is not very responcible.


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## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

minimalME said:


> Okay. So you'll each have your own account and do your own thing - in terms of spending? You'll be in control of your money, and he'll control his?
> 
> Then he's free to lend money to his friend without your approval. And your free to not marry him.
> 
> Seriously, now is the time to work on these problems, because it goes much deeper than loaning money to a friend.


Thank you for that bit of consolation. 

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## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

chillymorn69 said:


> Well what happens when next months rent is due. Are they going to need another 500 bucks?
> 
> If they have a plan to make next months rent then I woulc help but I would be clear as a bell that this is all I could help and even this much help is a huge sacrifice.
> 
> ...


 That is what I worried about because I have seen this before. A little here and there adds up. 

When I left because I did not want to live with the freeloader and G kicked M out, they did not talk for several months. No w they are friendly again and here comes M with his hand out. 

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## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

I just know, come spring G is gonna complain about not having the extra cash to make the fixes to his motorcycle. I am going to have to hold my tongue.

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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

ladyphoenix84 said:


> Thank you for that bit of consolation.


You've come to a site overflowing with threads about broken relationships. 

Your initial question about a $500 loan to a friend is nothing compared to the day to day stress of being married to someone who's fundamental values don't line up with yours.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Don’t lend money to friends


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## ladyphoenix84 (Jan 21, 2018)

minimalME said:


> You've come to a site overflowing with threads about broken relationships.
> 
> Your initial question about a $500 loan to a friend is nothing compared to the day to day stress of being married to someone who's fundamental values don't line up with yours.


I have been under the impression our values do line up. We are work hard, play hard kind of people. We are conservatives who believe that you get what you earn in life. I think our ideas about family duty are different because of the fact that he was adopted, so he is more flexible with who he identifies as family, as people he has obligation to. 

I believe in helping as well, but at some point it is like we are a microcosm of the welfare state, in which we have seen that throwing money at problems doesn't solve them. Give a man a fish or teach him to fish? He makes excuses for people and there is a point where I just don't. 

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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I doubt the friend will ever pay the money back.

Will there be a promissory note in writing signed by the friend, with concrete terms spelled out? What property can you seize in the event the person borrowing the money fails to abide by the terms?

Can you see your boyfriend actually having a sheriff go to his friends house and having something taken because the friend failed to pay? Can you see any other lending institutions finding anything they own worth taking?

The amount of money does not matter. What matters is you are against it and your boyfriend is being irresponsible. If your boyfriend could afford it out of pocket change it might be another matter. But, in the end the only thing that matters is it bothers you and your boyfriend doesn't seem to care enough about that fact.

As the others said, this will not be the end of the handout requests.

From your description of the friend they are totally irresponsible and waste money like crazy on nicotine and having other people cook for them. They don't care, and they are dragging your boyfriend down with them. Your boyfriend is letting them.

Your only hope, in my lowly opinion, is to step away as far as you can while this happens, and let your boyfriend suffer. After he realizes they have soaked him for everything they can and he finally breaks away from their influence completely, then consider if you really want to continue a relationship with someone who has trouble understanding who he should be concerned about in his life, you or some friend.

My opinion is, and this is just my opinion of course, you are heading for a world of hurt. Your boyfriend does not see how they use him. He sees how you interfere with his friendship. The resentment of that will poison your relationship. You should not need to hold your tongue. Your boyfriend should see it coming, and be discussing with you his feelings of needing to help, but he should know they are dragging him down, and he should freely discuss that with you, and discuss how he is going to put an end to their leeching off him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ladyphoenix84 said:


> I am very fortunate to find myself engaged to a very hard working man, who will lose sleep to make sure I am provided for. We have been together for 7 + years. We are planning to get married as soon as I graduate college and save the money up.
> 
> Lets call him G. He has a friend, I will call M for the sake of my query. G has known M for 15 years. M has been kid of a sloppy man child for as long as I have been with G. M even lived with us off and on during the first five years together, barely contributing financially and not being very much help otherwise. I moved out for a time because I got tired of it and eventually moved back after G kicked him out and we started resolving some of our other problems. M is doing better now and lives with his mother. They all work together. M's mother recently contacted G because they need financial help. Again. How too grown adults cannot manage money, I don't understand. G feels obligated to help because they are like family to him and also he thinks they will lose their home if he doesn't and have to rely on us again for shelter. The people who raised G live several states away so he feels more connected to these people for some reason. I have told him that I would prefer he give them tough love and let them work it out the same way we would have to. We don't know if they will even pay him back. Of course we had a fight about it and I am ready to throw my hands up and tell G to do want he wants but I don't want to hear him complain that he doesn't have money.
> 
> ...


 @ladyphoenix84, what your man is doing is understandable. Is it commendable? Well, no. It is not.

M&M (M & Mother) are in this position because they cannot or will not budget.

If G gives M&M $500 he is solving their immediate problem, but he is doing nothing to help them solve their real long term problem, their inability or unwillingness to budget.

He can help them by helping set up an appointment with a specialist budgeting advisor.

They smoke a great deal? Then he could buy M&M two e-cigarettes each with a month's supply of liquid and that would be it. No loans, because M&M need to be able to learn to rely on their own adult selves.

If G does the above, he will have been a true, caring friend to M&M.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

ladyphoenix84 said:


> M and his mother both work. Their issue is that hours got cut and they are behind on their rent. My point is that G would never let that happen. If he wasn't getting hours he would find a way to get up the needed funds. This is what they should have done and it is sad that I am talking and a 30 yr old "man" and his 60ish mother. It isn't rocket science. Or maybe they don't put in the extra effort because they know they can call G.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


The last thing your boyfriend should be doing is handling money to these people.In your shoes I would insist on seeing proof that they are using this “loan” for what they say they need it for.It is ridiculous that you and your boyfriend work while these leeches spend your money on cigarettes and take away food.
Unfortunately for you your boyfriend seems to put these people first,letting his friend live with you both,free of charge and only doing something about it when you left him is proof of this.You may want to give some thought to actually separating for a while,living with roommates if necessary.He has to see that he is not some wealthy millionaire who can give money away and while you are unhappy, he does it anyway.
My girlfriend lost her business that she had built from scratch because she was giving her mother large “loans” which were never repaid and letting some of her friends use her business free of charge.
It was an expensive lesson but a belated one.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Career woman here, 60 years old, 37 years married (first time for both of us), and have been in your shoes. Do not lend money to relatives & friends. They will continue to borrow & when you can no longer afford to loan them money, they will leave you as a a friend or give you the silent treatment as a relative. You need to have a "come to Jesus" talk with your boyfriend. If you disagree on how to handle your finances, this is going to be a big problem. You are not married, so think carefully. This was one of the biggest problems with my marriage as my own siblings continued to borrow money. I put a stop to it & now they are not talking to me!

What are the consequences of my own action? I worked three more years longer than I had to. My husband & I early retired this year. I could have retired earlier, if I was not such a pushover. I felt obligated to return the money to our savings account as I was such a fool! They continued to have the same fiscal problems. I should have been wiser as I was taken advantage of!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

This really isn't about the money. This is about mutual goals, understanding and love.

First you have mutual goals to save money for a wedding and house. You keep separate finances so what he spends money on isn't really your business. If he can't fix up his bike that's his problem. But affording a wedding or house is a mutual problem. You guys need a budget just as your friends do. So you both should agree to how much each of you are going to put into an untouchable savings account for marriage and wedding. 

After that if he can afford to help them that's his business. At least the way you guys are currently set up. I understand not wanting to let people take advantage of your love one. But how does he feel? Does he actually have a good relationship with his family? Does he have other friends? Certainly their relationship is dis functional but other than you does he have anyone else? He may understand that they are using him but willing to pay the price for a family. 

By all means big decisions should be made mutually but both of you want to make it unilateral. Yes those people are users, not good at finances and need to change. I feel it is your duty to talk with him about things they could do to save money but they are unlikely to change, your guy is unlikely to dump them. So just like anyone else getting married know you but the whole package family and all, faults and all. If you are always trying to stop him from helping and always saying how bad they are your setting yourself and him up for a lifetime of strife. Think on this hard before you move forward with making demands of him to dump his friends or marry him.

Don't get me wrong those people aren't great people. But years of being around children, most people would rather have a dysfunctional family than none. Figure out what you can and can not live with express it and be prepared to walk away if you have to. Or be prepared to understand his need for these people in his life.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Tell G that if he gives them the money (we all know it's not a loan as he'll never get it back) that he's doing it to make himself feel better, not them. If he really wanted to help them, he would help them set up a budget and prioritise their money.

If they can afford booze and tobacco, they can afford their rent.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

I've got friends that I would give $10,000 to with no questions asks. I have others that I wouldn't "lend" a dollar. The former are people I know that are responsible with their money and wouldn't ask if they didn't have a true emergency. The latter are those people that are always mismanaging their finances and don't need me enabling them. Sounds G is in the latter camp. If anything, I'd offer G a way to earn it and see if he is still interested when there is real sacrifice that he has to make BEFORE he gets the money.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

M, of M&M.

G is too soft hearted to say no.

G is being used, and won't stand up for himself. She would like him to for the good of both of them, especially if she is going to be tying her financial future together with G. It would be sad if she and G were to get married and later end up bitterly parting ways over his lack of frugality which cost them some sorely needed security.

But I don't see how she can help G realize what is happening.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Once he starts giving his friend money, it will likely never stop. He and his mom will always have "emergencies" because they know he's an easy mark. If you can tolerate that, fine. If you can't, don't marry him. Of course, it's always possible he'll get tired of being an easy mark and start saying "no" -- but that's not something you can count on. This may be just who he is. And only you know if that's a deal breaker.


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