# Men watch and learn



## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I'm sure that title is going to piss people off... 

I hear a lot of women complain about this issue and I know it's common in my marriage as well. When I come to my husband because I'm upset or had a bad day, I'm looking for empathy, support, understanding. Not answers, suggestions or ways to fix things. You can't fix emotion with practicality. Yes you may have good ideas, but I'm not looking for a fix, I'm looking for comfort and connection and understanding... that is what will make me feel better. 

This came to my mind because I just saw this short clip on YouTube and it was perfectly put 

https://youtu.be/1Evwgu369Jw


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I'm sure that title is going to piss people off...
> 
> I hear a lot of women complain about this issue and I know it's common in my marriage as well. When I come to my husband because I'm upset or had a bad day, I'm looking for empathy, support, understanding. Not answers, suggestions or ways to fix things. You can't fix emotion with practicality. Yes you may have good ideas, but I'm not looking for a fix, I'm looking for comfort and connection and understanding... that is what will make me feel better.
> 
> ...


Very nice!

PS... I don't want to fix you, but I do wish you a happier path. It is within you, you know...


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Agreed. I wish I knew that back when I was married, but it sure helps me deal with women better now.


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

Thanks for posting that.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Katie i concur with what your saying, but you have to understand that our biological makeup for men, is to hear the problem, identify a solution (s) and implement that solution, it is naturally how we are wired......and it takes a lot of work for us to bite our lip and say not thing and only express support and empathy....we normally go into action...active not passive...but i again understand what your saying and we are willing to do that, but understand this....i can also tell you that what your expressing has personally comeback to bite me on the butt. because what i was hearing was the need for empathy and what she wanted was action to be taken...so i ask because we men were not born with mind reading capabilities...what do you want us to do, help us help you ;-)


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Just give us a hug, tell us your sorry, and ask if there is anything you can do that will make us feel better @Xenote then the next day, maybe a little token to let us know you love us and your thinking about us. That token can be a small note, coffee brought to us, a long hug, flowers, our favorite candy. ))

Ps- sometimes we don't know what we want, we're emotional messes at times. Be kind and patient with us


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

I could just as easily tell women that men are problem solvers, it's in our nature, and actually stresses us out when we can't, so presenting us with a problem and then expecting us not to try and fix it is inconsiderate and insensitive on your part. 

Assuming you have female friends, why don't you talk to them when you just want to vent, since they most likely employ and appreciate that form of communication, while for men it is incredibly unpleasant.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Joey2k said:


> I could just as easily tell women that men are problem solvers, it's in our nature, and actually stresses us out when we can't, so presenting us with a problem and then expecting us not to try and fix it is inconsiderate and insensitive on your part.
> 
> Assuming you have female friends, why don't you talk to them when you just want to vent, since they most likely employ and appreciate that form of communication, while for men it is incredibly unpleasant.




Wow. Let me answer this for you.
I want to feel understood and supported by my husband. Relationships, at least from a women's perspective require emotional connection. When I want to vent, and talk for an hour about something I'll call my girlfriend. But when I come home from a bad day at work and I just need a little kindness and support, I'll go to my husband.

Another thing is... when your spouse comes to you for something, you generally should give them what THEY need, not what you need or want. Because it is about them isn't it? When my husband comes to me when he's upset, he doesn't want a hug and a im sorry, my husband wants me to agree with him and say how stupid that person was and blah blah. I know this through experience with my husband. I want to make HIM feel better therefore I do what makes HIM feel better. If empathy makes women feel better... and you want us to feel better... why give us a sandwich? It doesn't make sense.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Joey2k said:


> I could just as easily tell women that men are problem solvers, it's in our nature, and actually stresses us out when we can't, so presenting us with a problem and then expecting us not to try and fix it is inconsiderate and insensitive on your part.
> 
> Assuming you have female friends, why don't you talk to them when you just want to vent, since they most likely employ and appreciate that form of communication, while for men it is incredibly unpleasant.


Or you could learn empathy. There will be points in your life when you will want empathy as well. It's a two way street.

One of the best ways to build non-sexual intimacy is to learn about what really makes your spouse tick, what they really feel and thing. If you just want her to leave you alone and only seek out friends for this sort of intimacy, then don't be surprised when she feels disconnected and her feelings for you diminish.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)




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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I have learned in nearly 40 years of marriage, not to try to fix emotional reactions, not suggest anything. Just support, I ask her to verbalize and keep going until she feels somewhat better. It is in a man's makeup to fix stuff. Women are more in touch with their emotions, so fixing stuff may not be their default position. If she needs a shoulder to cry on, I provide it. If she needs me to hold her up, I will hold her up. If she wants to rant and rave, I will provide the ear and a cup of tea.

I used to get mad at her stressors, then I found that she misread the anger, and thought it was directed at her. I learned that, my anger was not in any way productive, and therefore learned to put it aside, and be strong for her.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Xenote said:


> Katie i concur with what your saying, but you have to understand that our biological makeup for men, is to hear the problem, identify a solution (s) and implement that solution, it is naturally how we are wired......and it takes a lot of work for us to bite our lip and say not thing and only express support and empathy....we normally go into action...active not passive...but i again understand what your saying and we are willing to do that, but understand this....i can also tell you that what your expressing has personally comeback to bite me on the butt. because what i was hearing was the need for empathy and what she wanted was action to be taken...so i ask because we men were not born with mind reading capabilities...what do you want us to do, help us help you ;-)




You posted the men's response, thank you. 

Katie,

Earlier you asked for help from the men to be a better wife. Well, her is what you needed to do: Communicate Effectively. 

If you had a bad day, then tell your husband you had a bad day and just need a hug and someone to listen. 

If you need a problem solved, then say that. 

You are responsible to get your needs met by CLEARLY communicating what those needs are. 

No mind reading, $hit tests, or any other games.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I think this is to right for some women, but not all by any means. My wife is very much a problem solver and wants advice on fixing things. She has never been the blubbery, "my life sucks" type. She generally shows less emotion than I do. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Joey2k said:


> I could just as easily tell women that men are problem solvers, it's in our nature, and actually stresses us out when we can't, so presenting us with a problem and then expecting us not to try and fix it is inconsiderate and insensitive on your part.
> 
> Assuming you have female friends, why don't you talk to them when you just want to vent, since they most likely employ and appreciate that form of communication, while for men it is incredibly unpleasant.




This^^^

Katie,

Is this part of the home stress that is affecting H's job? 

By now you must know how a doctor is wired. Survey, analyze, fix. Some doctors are compassionate. Some are cold. But they ALL know how to fix. 

What kind of doctor is H?

Instead of posting this thread, tell your husband, not us.


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> Another thing is... when your spouse comes to you for something, you generally should give them what THEY need, not what you need or want. Because it is about them isn't it?


And yet that's exactly what you're doing (or suggesting it's ok for women to do). Your husband sees a problem that is threatening you, and, since you are supposed to be on the same team, him, so he feels a need to fix it to restore peace and order in your lives. And you're telling him no, just listen to me complain about it. You say he's not giving you what you need, well you are trying to get your needs met as his expense. Very hypocritical.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

We keep hearing that it is in the man's makeup to fix things. 

I think that it's in everyone's makeup to fix things. It's just that some people have a need to talk things out and mull it over verbally. It helps them deal with the issue and arrive at their own solution.

So why is it hard to trust that the woman can come to her own solution and allow that?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TX-SC said:


> I think this is to right for some women, but not all by any means. My wife is very much a problem solver and wants advice on fixing things. She has never been the blubbery, "my life sucks" type. She generally shows less emotion than I do.


Snap!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Joey2k said:


> And yet that's exactly what you're doing (or suggesting it's ok for women to do). Your husband sees a problem that is threatening you, and, since you are supposed to be on the same team, him, so he feels a need to fix it to restore peace and order in your lives. And you're telling him no, just listen to me complain about it. You say he's not giving you what you need, well you are trying to get your needs met as his expense. Very hypocritical.


You are deciding what her needs are and what she must accept. 

Your solution to her problem might be completely wrong for what she wants to do. But somehow you think that you know better than she does.

When someone is looking for empathy, just giving them a solution is basically telling them to shut up and go away. Don't be surprised if that's exactly what she does.

The OP gives some good input. Your solution is to tell women that we are full of it and don't know what we want and only you (men) can solve things. After all you know better.

See... that's the problem.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Joey2k said:


> And yet that's exactly what you're doing (or suggesting it's ok for women to do). Your husband sees a problem that is threatening you, and, since you are supposed to be on the same team, him, so he feels a need to fix it to restore peace and order in your lives. And you're telling him no, just listen to me complain about it. You say he's not giving you what you need, well you are trying to get your needs met as his expense. Very hypocritical.




This literally doesn't make sense. 

Things in life happen all the time that upsets us. It's emotional and life is tough. I had a bad day, i failed a test, my presentation didn't go well, my mom is sick, things are overwhelming, my baby isn't meeting a mile stone... whatever. A good marriage and a good relationship is there to listen, and to understand and give comfort. 
Feeling understood and supported is the best way to go through life with someone. Life is hard as it is. It's nice to be with someone who knows how to comfort you the way that you need to be comforted.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> This^^^
> 
> Katie,
> 
> ...




This has nothing to do with my previous thread.

My husband and I are slowly learning what each other needs. 

My husband is a Cardiothoracic surgeon resident.

I've told my husband. We talk. I was trying to help other people, people who want to learn how to be a good spouse, someone who always believes they can learn and be better. Not someone like you who is fixed, doesn't want to grow and be better. You missed the whole point. No offense, but you don't get it.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

katiecrna said:


> This has nothing to do with my previous thread.
> 
> My husband and I are slowly learning what each other needs.
> 
> ...




Wow. Fixed and not wanting to grow?

Maybe I missed your point because of the several dozen threads you posted about your unhappiness with your husband. 

Ok, my post was trying to fix when you just wanted me to listen. 

Let's hope in two months when H is done you get the marriage and husband you want and need. 

Good luck.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Wow. Fixed and not wanting to grow?
> 
> Maybe I missed your point because of the several dozen threads you posted about your unhappiness with your husband.
> 
> ...




I'm sure I will. I believe a good marriage can be developed. Sorry I don't take your... grass is greener on the other side, get a new man advice. No thanks.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I understand where you're coming from, sometimes we just like to vent. My fiance also likes to give advice, or help me to figure out a problem. I listen, but he also listens. You and your husband need more balance in your relationship. If you were to find that together, think you'd be really happy with your marriage. Sometimes, we have to give more than we receive, until we get to that balance. Maybe try the path of least resistance, and see if it leads him to seeing that you are trying to understand him better, too.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> You are deciding what her needs are and what she must accept.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I didn't take Joey's post to mean anything like you just said. Maybe it is a men-women difference. 

Actually he is quite right. People treat others the way we want to be treated. 

We act towards others the way we want them to act towards us. 

What is wrong with her communicating her needs rather than expecting him to figure it out? That runs contrary to everything we preach here. 

This is a recurring theme in many marriages. It's why we take the 5 Love Languages quiz. I took the quiz and told wife what i need. I didn't wait for her to figure it out. (She never would) The fact that even knowing my needs she won't fill them is another matter. 

Yesterday wife gave me candy for Valentines Day. It's what she wanted. I didn't. I don't want candy and she clearly knows I am trying to lose weight. I didn't complain or fault her. I let her enjoy the feeling of gift giving. 

But i will remind her later not to buy me candy. The same reminder i give her every holiday for the past 10 years.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

katiecrna said:


> I'm sure I will. I believe a good marriage can be developed. Sorry I don't take your... grass is greener on the other side, get a new man advice. No thanks.




Not sure what you mean. I was wishing you both success that once his high stress residency is over you both will work out your happiness.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Joey2k said:


> I could just as easily tell women that men are problem solvers, it's in our nature, and actually stresses us out when we can't, so presenting us with a problem and then expecting us not to try and fix it is inconsiderate and insensitive on your part.
> 
> Assuming you have female friends, why don't you talk to them when you just want to vent, since they most likely employ and appreciate that form of communication, while for men it is incredibly unpleasant.


I always look at it this way to try to trick my nature. I am solving an immediate problem by giving her emotional support. I may later, when she is not upset, try to talk about how I think she can fix it. But the immediate problem is not what she is upset about but that she needs me as her husband to validate her emotions. I think doing that makes her feel safe. 

As men part of our role is to be emotional providers. That is a hell of a task for many, but that is the task. If you are a guy and you don't try to do this you run the risk of alienating your wife. Just as sure as if you are a wife and you don't have sex with your husband you run the risk of alienating your husband. 

It is what it is.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> You are deciding what her needs are and what she must accept.
> 
> Your solution to her problem might be completely wrong for what she wants to do. But somehow you think that you know better than she does.
> 
> ...


You know I completely agree with this post but you are assigning nefarious motives to guys really just trying to help in the way they were brought up to. That is just as wrong. Men need to learn how to do this. It's not in our nature and in all other aspects of life we are taught to be proactive and do. We are taught that is what makes us a man. Try doing something for your husband that goes completely against your nature and everything else that you have been taught. It takes practice.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> I didn't take Joey's post to mean anything like you just said. Maybe it is a men-women difference.
> 
> Actually he is quite right. People treat others the way we want to be treated.
> 
> ...




The point of reading 5 love languages is to learn what your spouses love language is so you can speak in HER language not yours. Which is my point.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Plus the title of this post is snarky and going to push people buttons. I am not judging I do it, I'm the last person who should say anything about being snarky. Just saying, don't be surprised when people push back. It implies that men are stupid and don't know this when many of us do. There are plenty of men who are just as emotionally intelligent as women. The idea that men can't be is just pure nonsense. Look at all of the poetry, love songs, novels and such written by men in the last 500 years just as a for instance. 

This stereotype of the stupid emotionless, frat boy, jock, is unfortunately something that has just come on the scene in the last 30 years, and has even given some men an excuse to not work on it. We all need to work on it, there are plenty emotionally stupid women. Go read SI. I hate that nonsense and find it insulting.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I probably should elaborate a bit from my earlier post. I think what you are saying makes sense, for some women. And I'm sure there are many men who don't understand this. Let's just be careful not to lump all men or women into these groups. My wife, as I said earlier, isn't like that. I have dated women who very much were like that. 

Really, like you said, the main thing is to try and work with your partner to meet his/her needs the best you can. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> I didn't take Joey's post to mean anything like you just said. Maybe it is a men-women difference.
> 
> Actually he is quite right. People treat others the way we want to be treated.
> 
> We act towards others the way we want them to act towards us.


Of course this is what people do instinctively. But we have the capacity to learn that there are different ways to do things that might work better. For example, in marriage it works better to find out your spouses’ needs and to fill those needs as much as we can.

That’s what the OP is about. It’s about how some men could approach things differently to better meet the needs of their wives.
The person I replied to rejected that.


blueinbr said:


> What is wrong with her communicating her needs rather than expecting him to figure it out? That runs contrary to everything we preach here.


No where did I say that she should not communicate her needs rather than expect him to figure it out. I’m not sure where you get that I was suggesting this.

The OP was about giving men an idea of how to handle a certain type of situation with their wife. What is wrong with passing on information to people that might help them. It’s a lot like the “His Needs, Her Needs” books... it’s just info that might help.


blueinbr said:


> This is a recurring theme in many marriages. It's why we take the 5 Love Languages quiz. I took the quiz and told wife what i need. I didn't wait for her to figure it out. (She never would) The fact that even knowing my needs she won't fill them is another matter.


Exactly. This the video in the OP tells us some things that might help in our marriages.

A lot of men don’t know that they need to listen with empathy instead of try to fix things all the time. They need to allow their wife to fix her own things. Of course if she ask for input, than that’s good too, he can then give an solutions as suggestions.

Videos like the one in the OP are good. A lot of women learn from them too. Often times women feel that they cannot talk to their husbands because he just shuts her down telling her how to fix it and/or that there is no problem. Some women might listen to that video and realize what this is bothering them and what they really need from their husbands.

But the guy I was responding to has the idea that women need should only talk to their female friends about things that are bothering them. That’s a problem.


blueinbr said:


> Yesterday wife gave me candy for Valentines Day. It's what she wanted. I didn't. I don't want candy and she clearly knows I am trying to lose weight. I didn't complain or fault her. I let her enjoy the feeling of gift giving
> 
> But i will remind her later not to buy me candy. The same reminder i give her every holiday for the past 10 years.


Good for you. But that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is an age-old problem that occurs between a lot of men and women… that men tend to not want to hear what when their wife want empathy. Instead men often (not all men) just want to shut her down by ‘fixing’ what they think is her problem.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> The point of reading 5 love languages is to learn what your spouses love language is so you can speak in HER language not yours. Which is my point.


It's also so that she can learn his love language so that she can speak in his language to him.. it goes both ways.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The point is one has to know their partner. This can take time and explaining what you're after from the get-go makes it easier.

When my husband vented about his boss, I knew he only wanted me to commisserate (if I offered to go kick his ass, brownie points for me). When he was talking about personnel issues, I knew he was looking for advice as that was an area I had studied. Hugs afterwards and backrubs are always good, too.

When I vented about my boss, I expected my husband to offer to take him out (he had quite the funny work-up to that). Venting about operational problems was his cue to jump in and offer solutions.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm still pretty sure that if we got that nail out of there . . . . .

Interesting the empathy vs sympathy point. I was at one time trying to explain empathy to a person who's native language was Greek. Since the roots of both of these words are Greek I thought it would be easy. So I broke up the word empathy to mean in Feeling, which in modern Greek apparently only means consumed by rage.

So this vid starts out by claiming some meanings for empathy and sympathy which are somewhat new to me. I had always thought that Sympathy was a feeling that is born of empathy. no matter the presenter did an adequate explanation of what she wanted. But mostly she explained it by showing what she didn't want. 

As a man I'm still trying to decide if what she want's is really what she needs, because no matter how much empathy I give or share, that Nail is still going to snag her sweater tomorrow morning.

It's not so bad getting things fixed.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

If I meet a man in a desert with parched lips, red rough skin, tattered clothes, a slumped posture... I'm going to offer water if I have it. If he wants to talk about how he was treated last time he had a glass of water I'm not really interested.

I owe my w at least the same consideration as a complete stranger. I'll help solve her problems.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> I'm still pretty sure that if we got that nail out of there . . . . .
> 
> Interesting the empathy vs sympathy point. I was at one time trying to explain empathy to a person who's native language was Greek. Since the roots of both of these words are Greek I thought it would be easy. So I broke up the word empathy to mean in Feeling, which in modern Greek apparently only means consumed by rage.
> 
> So this vid starts out by claiming some meanings for empathy and sympathy which are somewhat new to me. I had always thought that Sympathy was a feeling that is born of empathy. no matter the presenter did an adequate explanation of what she wanted. But mostly she explained it by showing what she didn't want.


Out of curiosity I looked up the meanings of the two words. 

I don't think I need to share another person's feeling, or even understand them, to feel sympathy for them. (just thinking out loud)

sympathy - feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.

empathy - the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.



Mr. Nail said:


> As a man I'm still trying to decide if what she want's is really what she needs, because no matter how much empathy I give or share, that Nail is still going to snag her sweater tomorrow morning.
> 
> It's not so bad getting things fixed.


As a woman, looking that the nail video, I just want to pull it out. I'm sure that everyone who watches the video what to do the same thing, regardless of their gender. Let's face it, video is a extreme to make a point. 

I wish I was good at making videos. I'd make the opposite one from an extreme view point of a woman talking and no matter what she says, the partner/husband just tells her that there is no problem. And he always has a solution.. a stupid solution that only makes sense to him.

You are right, it's not so bad fixing things. But we don't always want someone else fixing our problems. We might not like their solution. We might want to fix it our self.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

katiecrna said:


> This literally doesn't make sense.
> 
> Things in life happen all the time that upsets us. It's emotional and life is tough. I had a bad day, i failed a test, my presentation didn't go well, my mom is sick, things are overwhelming, my baby isn't meeting a mile stone... whatever. A good marriage and a good relationship is there to listen, and to understand and give comfort.
> Feeling understood and supported is the best way to go through life with someone. Life is hard as it is. It's nice to be with someone who knows how to comfort you the way that you need to be comforted.




Brrahahaha absolutely couldn't disagree more. You state this like it's absolute but it isn't - it's your perspective only. I agree things happen in life but for me it's not emotional it's cause and effect. If a guy is pushing a stupid idea at work and undermining my work I go to war - I don't think or respond emotionally.

So recognize that your emotional reaction to the world around you is not universally accepted. In fact about 50% of the world doesn't respond emotionally.

And I exclude anger which is an action oriented fight or flight response - it is a call to action for most men.

But I do feign emotions for my W's sake - I just don't feel them


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> If I meet a man in a desert with parched lips, red rough skin, tattered clothes, a slumped posture... I'm going to offer water if I have it. If he wants to talk about how he was treated last time he had a glass of water I'm not really interested.
> 
> I owe my w at least the same consideration as a complete stranger. I'll help solve her problems.


I'd hope that you'd give your wife much more consideration than you would some complete stranger.

Why is it hard to understand that sometimes people want to fix things themselves?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I'd hope that you'd give your wife much more consideration than you would some complete stranger.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it hard to understand that sometimes people want to fix things themselves?




Totally understand that, and in those cases she's already fixed things and is telling me what she did and isn't looking for a shoulder to cry on


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I think there's a thin line between being emotional and needing support, and being a victim.

I don't support victim hood


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

I think most men are doer, they are not talkers, they do things. My husband likes to fix things, and if I casually mention something that was broken or not working right, he would be right there to fix it for me, even if I didn't really care about it or use it. 

When I talk to him about a problem his first instinct is to fix, to make it better because I guess he views it as his job to "take" care of me. I love this about him and would not want to change it, he get's things done, and when I need something fixed, solved or done, he's the first person I go to.

When I want him to just listen and not fix or offer a solution, too offer empathy instead, I always start my sentence with, "I'm not looking for a solution to this problem I just need you to listen to me." I think it kind of give's him the heads up that I'm not asking him to do what he does best, but to just be there for me. He has told me personally that he likes it when I do that because it takes the "pressure" off him, let's him know what to do to help me, which he's happy to listen to me as I'm sure to him he see's that as fixing the problem. 

Don't fault men for being men. I wouldn't want my husband to be anything but a man. Those qualities that make him a man is what attracted me to him in the first place.


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

The need of a woman to be heard without an attempt being made to fix a problem and the need of a man to fix problems that are brought before him, especially those that threaten one or both members of his relationship, are mutually exclusive. Meeting one of these needs, by necessity, means the other's need will go unmet.

I have no problem* meeting that need for my partner if I am aware that that is what is going on. My objection is to the assertion by several women (and a man or two) that the woman's need is automatically, by default, the one that "should" be met. 

It is just as uncomfortable and unpleasant for a man to be bombarded with a bunch of negativity that he may not be as equipped as she to handle and expected to just hold everything in as it is for a woman to have her problem solved or mansplained for her.



*Well, it is annoying and uncomfortable to be in that position, but if I know that's what she needs I will try.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I think there's a thin line between being emotional and needing support, and being a victim.
> 
> I don't support victim hood
> 
> ...


Does looking for a shoulder to cry on constitute being a victim?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I think there's a thin line between being emotional and needing support, and being a victim.
> 
> I don't support victim hood


I don't think that any of the women here are suggesting that a woman is, or should be a victim. Nor that women should be overly emotional. That nail video is a good example of being ridiculous.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

Let's say I have a need for emotional support and validation. I feel unappreciated and neglected if my husband doesn't lend me an ear. When he doesn't just listen empathetically and not problem solve, I am pushed away. 

Let's say my husband has a need to protect me and problem solve. He feels unappreciated and inadequate if I don't want to listen his solutions. When I don't take his advice to heart, I'm pushing him away. 

Whose need here is more important?

A couple of years back, I hated the job and company I worked for. I had a new boss that was a sexist bully. I often vented to my husband. I wanted an empathetic ear. But to him, it felt like a problem he couldn't fix with me. It frustrated him. Pushed him away. Our sex life diminished. It took months of me asking why the decline in our sex life before he answered me honestly. 

My first gut instinct was to be pissed. Like WTF I'm really suffering here and can't even lean on you for support? But my husband presented his side. "How do you think I feel when you complain but don't do anything about it, and you're unhappy every day? I just feel helpless". 

So now, if I want an actual solution to something, then I will talk to him about it. I save the venting to my gfs and my mom. It's not that he loves me less, problem solving is *how* he shows me love.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Does looking for a shoulder to cry on constitute being a victim?




In all honesty, it's a matter of degree and frequency. So, of course I offer that for the LOML but she doesn't respond to everything that way. And she takes life's hardships in stride. Frankly I often probe her to make sure everything is alright.

I'm just responding to the notion that women have to respond to all these daily trials and tribulations by seeking a mans shoulder to cry on. And I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about - and it's definitely not all women but definitely a vocal minority. It's the same as the guy who can never be bothered to hear about "what's going on in your life" which, as any man can tell you, is code for a long discussion about "things". Of course most slightly enlightened guys can sit still for that "four weddings and a funeral" looooooong discussion, but it helps if we're clued in first.

Basic marital give and take



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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@Blondilocks it's like having to laugh at your H's jokes. I'm sure you can, just not everyday 


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Blondilocks it's like having to laugh at your H's jokes. I'm sure you can, just not everyday
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




So you don't want your wife to come to you when she's having a rough day? You don't want your wife to be emotional too often? You don't want to be bothered by emotion?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> Wow. Let me answer this for you.
> I want to feel understood and supported by my husband. Relationships, at least from a women's perspective require emotional connection. When I want to vent, and talk for an hour about something I'll call my girlfriend. But when I come home from a bad day at work and I just need a little kindness and support, I'll go to my husband.
> 
> Another thing is... when your spouse comes to you for something, you generally should give them what THEY need, not what you need or want. Because it is about them isn't it? When my husband comes to me when he's upset, he doesn't want a hug and a im sorry, my husband wants me to agree with him and say how stupid that person was and blah blah. I know this through experience with my husband. I want to make HIM feel better therefore I do what makes HIM feel better. If empathy makes women feel better... and you want us to feel better... why give us a sandwich? It doesn't make sense.


What if we gave you dark chocolate? I understand that is a cure all.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Celes said:


> Let's say I have a need for emotional support and validation. I feel unappreciated and neglected if my husband doesn't lend me an ear. When he doesn't just listen empathetically and not problem solve, I am pushed away.
> 
> Let's say my husband has a need to protect me and problem solve. He feels unappreciated and inadequate if I don't want to listen his solutions. When I don't take his advice to heart, I'm pushing him away.
> 
> ...


Can't there be a happy medium though. Like first he listens and acknowledges your pain but then he offers advice. Like maybe the 3rd time the same problem came up. 

This is my favorite by the way.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

I don't buy into all this over complication. Also this sort of discussion is not about ALL men or ALL women, like everything we are individuals.

I have no problem if MrH offers suggestions to try and fix issues if I have them. Going to go out on a limb and say he does it because he loves and cares about me, how horrible if I pushed that love away. He comes to me when he needs support and I go to him.
If I want to have a white whine then it is kept for my sister or GF's. 

What he has had to learn over the years though is to give me a chance to do physical acts myself first and if it is beyond my ability or strength then I will ask for help. I like to have a go myself (put up my first ever tent a few years ago and he was dying to help out but I told him to let me try myself). Sometimes he struggles to let me pick up heavy things or do too much hard work and I adore him for that but it is up to me to communicate that it empowers me to first have a go myself.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Can't there be a happy medium though. Like first he listens and acknowledges your pain but then he offers advice. Like maybe the 3rd time the same problem came up.
> 
> This is my favorite by the way.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg


I think this would be ideal. She gets her nerd for empathetic support met, and them he gets his fix-it need met.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Without reading each and every response, the problem I see is simply put, the OP titled the thread in a snarky manner, suggesting she knows how a man should act and what his SO needs. Everyone is different, maybe some men aren't fixers, maybe some women want more then a listener and want actual solutions. The opening post is just silly, and the OP even acknowledges it right with the first sentence ...


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

The communication gap shouldn't have to be this hard. All you need to do is listen then ask if there is anything you can do to help. It's no different than when my kids come home and say they had a problem at school. I listen then ask if they want to address it themselves or if they want me to take care of it, then I do what they request. This shows that I care and that I'm not trying to take control of the situation away from them. Initially jumping to action isn't always what's needed and I think that's what Katie's point is. There are still times where you have to tell the woman to sit down while you pull the nail out, rather than talking about her feelings. The key is learning your partner enough to know which to do.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Hmm, so apparently it is up to the man to understand that when you tell him something, you aren't really looking for anything to be fixed, all you want is to be heard. Yet when men don't fix things, even though you supposedly told him, it is his fault for not listening? As others have said perhaps some women would be better off to exercise a little empathy and understanding of their own rather than just rely on the supposed truism that they are the master communicators and keepers of the relationship? Effective communication is a two way street.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My husband is naturally empathetic.. a very good listener, I have never complained here... 

and...

I like to fix things, seek solutions, analyze the best course of action & Do something about it.. ..but still... I am a female & so understand this need to be heard & understood... I NEED to vent sometimes too! 

I WANT his advice/ his 2 cents - always....I want to "brain storm" together...this has always made communication with us pretty smooth / satisfying.... 

I would be emotionally upset with a man who walked away, if I felt cut off suddenly, not cared for... but at the same time.. I understand a man doesn't want to hear us rattle on & on & on ....especially if we don't come up for air...this would make him want to run far far way, go busy himself till we've calmed down some... so some "give & take" is needed for the man too...

It surely helps if he feels his presence has a soothing effect on us...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> I'm sure that title is going to piss people off...
> 
> I hear a lot of women complain about this issue and I know it's common in my marriage as well. When I come to my husband because I'm upset or had a bad day, I'm looking for empathy, support, understanding. Not answers, suggestions or ways to fix things. You can't fix emotion with practicality. Yes you may have good ideas, but I'm not looking for a fix, I'm looking for comfort and connection and understanding... that is what will make me feel better.
> 
> ...



I agree with Brené Brown, but I'll play devil's advocate here...

Imagine you fall into a dark hole, and you say, "I'm overwhelmed!" Meanwhile your partner is struggling to fix things because they fell in the same hole and have been stuck long before you fell in beside them. Sometimes being offered the proverbial sandwich to help you feel better comes from the same place that tsunami survivors in Japan found it themselves to share their food with complete strangers as a way to help "fix" their problems for each other.










I comedian once poked fun at this same thing and said, "Men you know what when your woman says she is thirsty, she is not asking for you to get up and go get her a glass of water. Instead you should be there right beside her and tell her how thirsty you are as well. Then you will connect with each other because by becoming dehydrated together." 

@katiecrna the next time you go to your husband because you have had a bad day and need to unwind, start out by asking him if he needs a sandwich before you start unloading on him! (please try and find it in yourself to laugh at my extremely dark humor in that advice!)

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Joey2k said:


> And yet that's exactly what you're doing (or suggesting it's ok for women to do). Your husband sees a problem that is threatening you, and, since you are supposed to be on the same team, him, so he feels a need to fix it to restore peace and order in your lives. And you're telling him no, just listen to me complain about it. You say he's not giving you what you need, well you are trying to get your needs met as his expense. Very hypocritical.


Yes, that the way I'm thinking about this. On one hand your saying to listen to my problems and have empathy, but when your man goes to work and helps you fix the problem you get pissed off. I guess the best thing to do is just to listen and not act, while for a man it's very hard to do this. Sometimes I think women want problems just so they have something to talk about and get aggravated about.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

katiecrna said:


> So you don't want your wife to come to you when she's having a rough day? You don't want your wife to be emotional too often? You don't want to be bothered by emotion?




Exactly! I didn't marry a little girl. I married a girl. (No she wasn't a woman and she's still my "delicate flower"). I have little girls who are now sulking a bit and overly emotional. That's no way to go through life IMO. Suck it up a little, girl.

It's not either / or. It's knowing when to wipe your tears and "fake it till you make it" sometimes.

Repeatedly wanting / needing to express every bad feeling just amplifies your emotions.

Some people never learn to self-soothe - maybe because of FOO. But it's not healthy.

Frankly when my W is actually having a bad day, I know it and I have to probe her to get it out. If something's actually bothering her, she'll stew a bit - not sulking, but actually he upset.

Other than that, when she used to come home years ago with food service stories (she had a big job overseeing 100 associates), what would start as something bothering her ended up being the best and funniest stories. We labeled then like Seinfeld episodes. The famous "Coffee Incident" still brings a chuckle just at the name, but it really riled her up. My job as a good H and listener is to bring her around and provide perspective and humor while she's dumping. These little life incidents are actually funny when you realize how small and silly they are in the big picture.

So I absolutely listen and talk and interact. But I'm not afraid to bring my perspective and opinion. I actively listen. I'm NOT a woman and I'm NEVER going to sit through the nail incident like that beta loser in the video. Worse case scenario I'd interrupt, say I'll be right back,and give her a hammer and tell her to either pull the nail or hammer it in further -but I'm not the type to listen to someone complain like that.



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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Regarding the nail...

If you read enough TAM real life mini-series here, you'll find guys like him get really annoying after a while.

Many women complain about a guy like that and leave for greener pastures.

That guy is whiny enough to be irritating and not listen, but not balsy enough to call her out on her BS.

From what I've read here, and I never knew what a "nice guy" was until I got here, many women prefer either an actually empathetic, gentle man or an independent man who isn't afraid to lead but treats them with respect.

This middle ground ends up with a guy who can be pushed around too much, and women lose respect for that.

Anyway those are generalities. Some women are happy with complete dbags (who must have SOME hidden redeeming qualities) and some women are happy with guys that act practically like women (and I've known several where my "gaydar" went off whenever I saw them - but that doesn't mean I don't like and respect them - I just understand gay men my age often married because of fubar societal reasons). Your mileage may vary.



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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Celes said:


> Let's say I have a need for emotional support and validation. I feel unappreciated and neglected if my husband doesn't lend me an ear. When he doesn't just listen empathetically and not problem solve, I am pushed away.
> 
> Let's say my husband has a need to protect me and problem solve. He feels unappreciated and inadequate if I don't want to listen his solutions. When I don't take his advice to heart, I'm pushing him away.
> 
> ...




Yes! Something like that isn't an emotional problem it's a REAL problem. A guy like that needs another guy to set him straight IMO. You don't have to get all Tony soprano on the guy but I wouldn't hesitate to have a talk and let him know I'm watching him and maybe his w or girlfriend would be upset if I was a dbag with her. Guys like that are big and tough around women and guys they can push around but scurry away like ****roaches when a guy with integrity calls out their BS. I understand your H's perspective, but he should have just called it out for you at the time.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I'd hope that you'd give your wife much more consideration than you would some complete stranger.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it hard to understand that sometimes people want to fix things themselves?




Nothing I respect more than someone who tried to help them self first. Next I respect someone who will accept help. In that order.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Yes! Something like that isn't an emotional problem it's a REAL problem. A guy like that needs another guy to set him straight IMO. You don't have to get all Tony soprano on the guy but I wouldn't hesitate to have a talk and let him know I'm watching him and maybe his w or girlfriend would be upset if I was a dbag with her. Guys like that are big and tough around women and guys they can push around but scurry away like ****roaches when a guy with integrity calls out their BS. I understand your H's perspective, but he should have just called it out for you at the time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The last thing I would ever allow is my husband to confront my boss. I am a professional at work, I will not depend on anyone to fight my battles. I held my own against the boss, which made him dislike me more. Every time he tried to find a way to diminish me or my work somehow, I would logically counter him or question him. He hated that. 

Also, the boss was in another state. You would think that would have made it better somehow but he was obsessed with me and stalking my activity online. There really wasn't much my husband could do. And I admit I came home venting about the same thing all the time. New things my boss did that day, stupid calls I got, etc. My husband had sympathy for me at first but then it was too much. His advice was to ignore the stupid criticisms from my boss, do exactly what he was asking and look for another job in the meantime. Which I tried to do but did a poor job of it. I'd come home depressed and talk his ear off over the same issues. I don't blame my husband for getting tired of it. 

In the end though, my boss made it too obvious that he was going to fire me. As in any day. When I shared the info with my husband, he advised me to quit right there and then. I had no other job lined up but my husband encouraged me to do it and that we would make it work. He said it sounds better to say you quit than you got fired. So I did.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

It's not that serious. People are individuals. The only thing to learn is how your particular spouse want to be treated. Geez, get a life and stop all this verbal meanest. 

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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Oops! Am I being too emotional with my above post, lol !

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