# I'm falling out of love - with the love of my life.



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

This is my first post, anywhere, so thank you in advance for your support.

For the first time in a long time, i'm genuinely happy with myself and who I am. My self-confidence has returned, i'm very fit and healthy and at 33 years of age am excited about life, both present and future. But, I feel alone, with my self satisfaction to keep me company. I have what I consider a wonderful family and life. My wife and I have 3 children (two from my first marriage) between ages 8 and 20 mos., i'm more than gainfully employed in a profession I love. So, whats the problem? My wife, whom I love dearly and truly thought was the love of my life, has become a physically numb b-sexual, robot of a lover. We are intimate possibly twice/month, assuming I take initiative and am ok with lack of interest. 
The Back Log - 

I don't know that the situation started at some point, as much as it was likely present the entire time and i just wasn't willing to see it mindfully. Obviously with a busy family, were both exhausted. My wife is also a professional and has a demanding job, but were a good team - in that yes, I take off my suit after a 10 hour day, clean toilets, diaper pails, make dinner, roll on the floor with the kids and balance the finances. And, lovingly, so does she. We are kind of a dream team. We rarely argue, spend lots of quality family time together and both want the same things for our family. But, what do we want for ourselves? I want lust! I want her to rip my suit off, call me by my last name with a MR. first and rock my world. She wants to read... (Ahh you see the problem). I'm a very sexual, emotionally secure man. I write her special notes and leave them out on her car to find in the morning, I randomly send flowers to her office, or call during a really busy day for me - just to say hello. I hold her hand as often as I can and do my very best to listen to her. I love hearing about her day and the stresses she has. I rub feet (although admittedly not as often as I should but I do feel guilty if I don't when she asks which I would consider a step in the proper direction) and we both support each-other having free time away from each-other.

So, why isn't she interested in being intimate with me? I'm definitely a pleaser in bed and I think my male parts are more than adequate. I try to think about her before myself, am very patient and loving and just want to be close to her. I've tried every possible angle, conducted lots of research, and of course... We have discussed this at length! In fact, you would be surprised to learn my wife is actually a practicing marriage and family therapist - ping! 

Her response is standard: too tired, too busy, kids, not feeling well....

The challenge - 
I think i'm a good looking fella. I'm successful, taking very good care of myself, dress well and am mindful that the words which come out of my mouth are actually impacting. I am hit on around the office on a daily basis and at work events. I would NEVER break my vow, but I am beginning to not feel as intimately confident as I once did. What's more, i'm beginning to resent my wife and now the thought of intimacy with her is weaning. Im also not seeing her the same way; less sexually and more friendship based. Shes becoming my sister and we've only been married for 4 years.

Is this what I signed up for? To be made into a tennis shoe wearing, under sexed man with three kids and a wife who I will likely begin to despise intimately? I hate to talk about her and my family like this but, this is not me. I've always been a sharp, witty man who has not had a problem - or even had to question that part of my life.

- Very uncomfortable.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you considered giving her some erotic fiction to read? There are all different types from romantic bodice rippers to graphic sex scenes in detective stories to complete fantasy with kinky demon lovers. You also have the option to give her non-fiction. There are a ton of books about how to spice up your sex life. Reading those kind of books will get her thinking about sex. I find the more I think about sex, the more I want it.

Also, if you want her to be more sexual, treat her more sexual. You'd be amazed what a difference little things can make. Walk up behind her while she's doing the dishes and give her a sensual grope while whispering how sexy she is and then go back to the kids, leaving her wanting more. Randomly push her against a wall for a passionate kiss. Tell her <insert body part here> makes you hot. Inhale her scent while holding her close and tell her she smells wonderful. That kind of thing, every day, a few times a day. Make her feel sexy.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

I like your book advice. And I absolutely love to seduce, she just is unresponsive to things like that. I love to grab her behind and tell her how much I want her - she looks at me and laughs and says " haha oh yeah". 

Im sure there would be a thousand women who would embrace that. Just not my wife. Even talking about sex, in any capacity, seems to make her turned off. I feel like such a perv (i'm not) which feels horrible.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Tell her what you say in the title of your post.....

If she cares, she'll want to know what she can do to stop that from happening.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Have you ever sat down with her and asked her to that a 3rd party perspective on your marriage....outline everything to her, and then ask her for her professional opinion, now i realize that it would be difficult to be objective so as an alternative, outline a scenario about another couple that she does not know and then ask her for her professional opinion. As a son of a psychiatrist, i can tell you his professional hat was taken off at the door, which lead to some hypocrisy...good luck


----------



## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Your wife is a practicing marriage and family therapist. Let her read what you wrote here. She has answers to your situation. She might not realize what is going on in your own turf, after solving everyone else's problems. Good luck to you!


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She may, really, just be too tired.

Or ill?

This is what I suggest. Arrange to have well man/well women clinic sessions to check you both out.

And yes, this is what you signed up for. Better or worse...


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You talk about a lot of things that go on in your family. But one thing that is absent is any talk about what you and your wife do together, just the two of you without the children.

So how many hours a week do the two of you spend together, just the two of you?

When you are together, alone, what sorts of things do you do?


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

present 82 said:


> I like your book advice. And I absolutely love to seduce, she just is unresponsive to things like that. I love to grab her behind and tell her how much I want her - she looks at me and laughs and says " haha oh yeah".
> 
> Im sure there would be a thousand women who would embrace that. Just not my wife. Even talking about sex, in any capacity, seems to make her turned off. I feel like such a perv (i'm not) which feels horrible.


It's possible she isn't responding because you aren't seducing her in the way that works for her.

Maybe she wants a man who totally goes caveman on her. Maybe she wants 100 candles and a coconut oil massage. Try to figure out what really triggers her desire. It might be different than what you think. The best way is to get her to talk openly and honestly about her turn ons and her kinks. Sometimes alcohol or your preferred method of achieving a buzz is helpful. If she won't talk about it, you could go with trial and error.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

A lot of women don't like the grab the behind routine. Especially if they are not emotionally/mentally turned on first. 

I agree, time together alone is a must. Working Mom, 3 kids and ones a toddler, that is a lot of tired and not a lot of couple only time.


----------



## wolfgang (Nov 29, 2015)

You are not alone my friend. I have lived in this type of situation for almost 20 years. I love my wife for who she is (a wonderful person). It has been hard for me not to cheat on her. I have thought about it but never have. I love her too much to hurt her that way. We only have sex about once a month IF I'm lucky and she has to have a few drinks to get in the mood. That really hurts me because I feel she has no desire for me when she hasn't had a drink. I know she loves me but I think we are now going down separate roads. With 20 years invested, I hate to see it end but I'm concerned that the end may be near unless we can talk it out. Good luck to you and keep your head up.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

present 82 said:


> This is my first post, anywhere, so thank you in advance for your support.
> 
> For the first time in a long time, i'm genuinely happy with myself and who I am. My self-confidence has returned, i'm very fit and healthy and at 33 years of age am excited about life, both present and future. But, I feel alone, with my self satisfaction to keep me company. I have what I consider a wonderful family and life. My wife and I have 3 children (two from my first marriage) between ages 8 and 20 mos., i'm more than gainfully employed in a profession I love. So, whats the problem? My wife, whom I love dearly and truly thought was the love of my life, has become a physically numb b-sexual, robot of a lover. We are intimate possibly twice/month, assuming I take initiative and am ok with lack of interest.
> The Back Log -
> ...


This is normal....... well, your situation explains your feelings, that is. What I'd like to know is what does she say concerning the sexual intimacy and frequency? Is she overworked? Sleep amount? Frequency of dates?

It is very likely that she has not stepped into your shoes and felt the impact that a desire for (much?) more sex can have on you.

Are you prepared to accept it, should nothing change? What would be measured as a success, should benefits be conferred?

Relationship Teacher


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ok lots of different possibilities for what is going on - not enough to really know what going on.

But here are a few possibilities:

1 - Your kids are overwhelming her. If she got "insta-family" but didn't know what she was signing up for. Women tend to be much more nurturing than you as a young man can appreciate, and you also probably can't imagine how emotionally and physically exhausting that emotional support is for a woman. By your prose and style of writing I believe you really don't understand this.

2 - you are spontaneously aroused - if I ask you to think for a moment about a busty college girl in a wet white bikini partying and jumping up and down... you're probably ready to go. You think if you're physically fit, nicely dressed, with a good smile and some cologne, she'll ramp up quickly too. Unfortunately, many women don't work that way. A guy can visualize something or see a couple of CIM gifs and they're in - many women would read a story and see a b&w image of a guy in a suit in the shadows with 2 days stubble and high cheekbones... and fill in the details slowly with a story of a chance erotic encounter that includes whispers, fleeting passionate glances, warm kisses with rough hands gently groping... you get the idea. It's a slow fuse versus spontaneous combustion.

3-some women are responsive - their desire develops as you begin kissing and touching and foreplay. 2 seconds before you start they could be doing laundry in terms of the arousal so if they are tired it is hard for them to imagine it will be fun (yes even though a guy will say empirically you have had a screaming O every time and loved it the desire is so not there that they may not see this obvious fact)

4-you might be annoying her in some way and she is exhausted and doesn't even want to go there.

5-she (and you) probably don't even realize that you want emotional connection which you get through sex

Read "his needs her needs" with her - an easy read that will help explain what you guys are not understanding about each other


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

Thats a good question. We definitely don't spend a lot of time together. After the children are bedded, we generally watch TV or read next to each other and we both read together before bed, which is not interaction. We used to have a date night once a week but she went back to work and that was the end of that. When we do have a date night, we like dining and movies.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

I can certainly appreciate your ideas but, shoot, I'm tired too! I work 10 hours a day and share in 50% of the house work, child raising and nearly 80% of the financial responsibility. Lighting 50 candles 3 days per week to get laid.... well, seems unreasonable.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

present 82 said:


> Thats a good question. We definitely don't spend a lot of time together. After the children are bedded, we generally watch TV or read next to each other and we both read together before bed, which is not interaction. We used to have a date night once a week but she went back to work and that was the end of that. When we do have a date night, we like dining and movies.



Well, there you go. You two need face to face interaction, especially if she is to get out of mommy mode.

Relationship Teacher


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

It's a shame really. In the elevator one of my work colleagues asked if I was happy to be going home... I thought and said "NO". She laughed and said I would be if I were going to her house. I politely laughed and proceeded to my dwelling, did the dishes while my wife made dinner, played a game with the boys, had dinner, gave them baths, my wife worked on her computer and when it was time for lights out, I offered a back rub... Shure she said; geeze, I really put my back into it too! When I was done I tried to get frisky and she said she was tired (gazing at my face to see if it made me upset) gave me a kiss and rolled over to go to sleep. Another night of self pleasure - naturally I thought of the lady in the elevator the entire time which, once complete, made me feel terrible. It's quite ridiculous. 

I try my best to occupy my time, I ran a half marathon last weekend and I lift weights a few times a week and play golf. I also like playing basket ball with the kids, I read often and play poker with the fellas once a month... You know, really whatever I can do to not be a fat, middle aged, belching, undersexed - typical. Sometimes i feel that's who she wants me to be. It would be easier for her if I didn't take care of myself or care about my image. Less liability to manage.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

I think your first point has measurable weight and is something I have considered. I especially appreciate the bit about how much women invest in raising a family. The fact remains, if this is a 50% relationship, why do I have to do the majority of the work? Because she the intimacy control person.
She's just happy the way thing are! Of course i am willing to work harder because i need more, conversely, the work requires double the effort from her because she isn't the one in need.

It's a raw game. So much easier to end it or cheat.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> 2 - you are spontaneously aroused - if I ask you to think for a moment about a busty college girl in a wet white bikini partying and jumping up and down... you're probably ready to go. You think if you're physically fit, nicely dressed, with a good smile and some cologne, she'll ramp up quickly too. Unfortunately, many women don't work that way. A guy can visualize something or see a couple of CIM gifs and they're in - many women would read a story and see a b&w image of a guy in a suit in the shadows with 2 days stubble and high cheekbones... and fill in the details slowly with a story of a chance erotic encounter that includes whispers, fleeting passionate glances, warm kisses with rough hands gently groping... you get the idea. It's a slow fuse versus spontaneous combustion.
> 
> 3-some women are responsive - their desire develops as you begin kissing and touching and foreplay. 2 seconds before you start they could be doing laundry in terms of the arousal so if they are tired it is hard for them to imagine it will be fun (yes even though a guy will say empirically you have had a screaming O every time and loved it the desire is so not there that they may not see this obvious fact)


If she does have responsive desire, she needs to be willing to give it a chance.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

present 82 said:


> I don't know that the situation started at some point, as much as it was likely present the entire time and i just wasn't willing to see it mindfully. Obviously with a busy family, were both exhausted. My wife is also a professional and has a demanding job, but were a good team - in that yes, I take off my suit after a 10 hour day, clean toilets, diaper pails, make dinner, roll on the floor with the kids and balance the finances. And, lovingly, so does she. We are kind of a dream team. We rarely argue, spend lots of quality family time together and both want the same things for our family. But, what do we want for ourselves? I want lust! I want her to rip my suit off, call me by my last name with a MR. first and rock my world. She wants to read... (Ahh you see the problem). I'm a very sexual, emotionally secure man. *I write her special notes *and leave them out on her car to find in the morning, *I randomly send flowers to her office*, or call during a really busy day for me - just to say hello. *I hold her hand as often as I can and do my very best to listen to her*. I love hearing about her day and the stresses she has. I rub feet (although admittedly not as often as I should but I do feel guilty if I don't when she asks which I would consider a step in the proper direction) and we both support each-other having free time away from each-other.
> 
> So, why isn't she interested in being intimate with me? I'm definitely a pleaser in bed and I think my male parts are more than adequate. *I try to think about her before myself, am very patient and loving and just want to be close to her*. I've tried every possible angle, conducted lots of research, and of course... *We have discussed this at length!* In fact, you would be surprised to learn my wife is actually a practicing marriage and family therapist - ping!


Stop doing all of the bolded. If she notices and asks why say "too tired, too busy, kids, not feeling well".

I don't get "_I rub feet (although admittedly not as often as I should but I do feel guilty if I don't when she asks which I would consider a step in the proper direction)_". If she felt guilty after turning you down for sex, would that be a "step in the right direction"?.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

present 82 said:


> It's a shame really. In the elevator one of my work colleagues asked if I was happy to be going home... I thought and said "NO". She laughed and said I would be if I were going to her house.


Does she see your lack of boundaries? You looking at or flirting with other woman? Because that's a huge turn off. Honestly, nothing else you said about how great you are would be enough to overlook the above sentence for me. 

You need to shut this kind of behavior down, even if your wife doesn't see it. 
The appropriate response to a female asking this kind of question is yes. If she responds in the way that she did, you go to HR. 
You don't give other women the idea that you are available, you make it clear that it's inappropriate to speak to you- a married man- in that way. 

If your wife senses in any way that she can not fully trust you, you are looking at a big uphill battle IMO


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw you look desperate for sex which is unattractive. 

I do about 5% of the household work. I have traditional make / female roles in my relationship. 

Though it may seem counterintuitive, W may respect you more if you did less for her and were more explicitly demanding of her.

I don't mean be a d*ck but if I gave a back rub line that I WOULD have sex too. It would not be a negotiation. My W would respect me enough to satisfy my needs too and if not I would explicitly state my disappointment. It's a 2 way street.

That said I would NEVER give something EXPECTING something in return. If I want it I take it (not cave man way just masculine) and if it doesn't appear to be be freely given I ask. You are doing a "covert contract" something I've read about here. It's wimpy behavior - I give you something and expect you to know I want something back and feel bad if you don't read my mind or never wanted what I offered and never expected to give what you wanted.

Be more direct in your needs and ask what she needs. If you get turned down, tell her you are going out to watch porn and jerk off then. Let her know you aren't happy she is leading you on. And make sure you are figuring out what she needs and are giving it to her.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Does she see your lack of boundaries? You looking at or flirting with other woman? Because that's a huge turn off. Honestly, nothing else you said about how great you are would be enough to overlook the above sentence for me.
> 
> If your wife senses in any way that she can not fully trust you, you are looking at a big uphill battle IMO


And the flip side to that is if you want a spouse that isn't desperately trying not to stray, you need to see that your spouses needs are being met at home.

Realistically, sex is important to marriage. Marriage is a sexual relationship by it's very nature. If you reduce or remove sex, you damage the marriage. 

I have never understood how people deny their spouses sexual contact for months on end and then have the nerve to act surprised when they either discover infidelity or get served divorce papers. 

*medical conditions excepted, of course.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> Stop doing all of the bolded. If she notices and asks why say "too tired, too busy, kids, not feeling well".


Don't do that. It's too passive-aggressive and she might not make the proper connection, anyways.

Just tell her exactly what you have told us. Explain your physical frustration and it' effects on your mind and body. Tell her how her rejection and lack of initiation makes you feel. Tell her that you have had to resort to masturbating to spank bank chicks when she turned you down and you feel cruddy about that, too. Explain to her that the lack of intimacy and face to face interaction time together is damaging your bond.

If she understands where you are, she can work with you to solve the problem.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

MJJEAN said:


> And the flip side to that is if you want a spouse that isn't desperately trying not to stray, you need to see that your spouses needs are being met at home.
> 
> Realistically, sex is important to marriage. Marriage is a sexual relationship by it's very nature. If you reduce or remove sex, you damage the marriage.
> 
> ...


I do agree with all this but it needs to be said in words, communication, not with flirting with other women. And I just spent all day debating that some circumstances (like lack of sex) are more likely to end up with a partner cheating, I understand what you are saying. 

But regardless the OP has control over his actions and ones like that are not going to make a wife want to have sex with him. 
He needs to watch his behavior, not just for himself and his own sense of morals, but because there is not a lot less sexy than your husband getting all teenager horny over a hot girl or worse, flirting with them in front of you. 

IMO He didn't give any indication that he knew how serious the elevator situation actually was. I mean, that's a major no-no and it was just kind of brushed off as not a big deal. 

If a guy came on and had VARed that conversation between his wife and a co-worker they'd be ready to tie her to the stake. 

It gives me the impression that I wouldn't trust him, I wouldn't want to sleep with him and that he's perhaps a tad c*cky and the "I'm so wonderful" type. So if his wife gets any of that, it's an issue to look at.


----------



## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 - Kindle edition by Athol Kay. Health, Fitness & Dieting Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

I assume someone would have volunteered this earlier, if they did & I missed it, I apologize. Also, be very wary of those elevator interactions with female coworkers. You may not realize the effect they are having on you.


Cheers,
V(13)


SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I do agree with all this but it needs to be said in words, communication, not with flirting with other women. And I just spent all day debating that some circumstances (like lack of sex) are more likely to end up with a partner cheating, I understand what you are saying.
> 
> But regardless the OP has control over his actions and ones like that are not going to make a wife want to have sex with him.
> He needs to watch his behavior, not just for himself and his own sense of morals, but because there is not a lot less sexy than your husband getting all teenager horny over a hot girl or worse, flirting with them in front of you.
> ...


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

present 82 said:


> I think your first point has measurable weight and is something I have considered. I especially appreciate the bit about how much women invest in raising a family. The fact remains, if this is a 50% relationship, why do I have to do the majority of the work? Because she the intimacy control person.
> She's just happy the way thing are! Of course i am willing to work harder because i need more, conversely, the work requires double the effort from her because she isn't the one in need.
> 
> It's a raw game. So much easier to end it or cheat.


I have a few questions, how old is your middle child? Do they stay with your wife during the week when you work? How long were you with your wife before you were married? You say you wear a suit for 10 hours a day, does that include the commute, or is that additional time away? You seem fairly busy, running marathons amoung other interests, that couldn't leave too much time for your wife.

Do you date her? How much quality time do you two spend together? And I don't mean chores or trying to bed her. You seem nonchalant about cheating, do you have a history that involves infidelity?


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I do agree with all this but it needs to be said in words, communication, not with flirting with other women. And I just spent all day debating that some circumstances (like lack of sex) are more likely to end up with a partner cheating, I understand what you are saying.
> 
> But regardless the OP has control over his actions and ones like that are not going to make a wife want to have sex with him.
> He needs to watch his behavior, not just for himself and his own sense of morals, but because there is not a lot less sexy than your husband getting all teenager horny over a hot girl or worse, flirting with them in front of you.
> ...


For me, trust and emotional connection aren't necessary for me to want to have sex with a man, so I can't comment there.

As far as the elevator situation, I wouldn't consider that a big deal. A 30 second flirtation, meh. I would think it was more of a problem if, say, she offered her number or asked him to hit her up on <insert social media>. If she tried to further pursue him, that would be a run to HR. But I couldn't get myself worked up over it.

That said, I'm in a marriage that includes regular really good sex. I can absolutely see how that can be dangerous to a guy who is trying to be faithful and is also starved for sex and intimate attention.

I don't have a problem with someone honestly listing their condition physically, mentally, and financially. When dealing with lack of sex in marriage questions, an awful lot of LSer's ask if mental illness, being out of shape and unhealthy, or stressing over money is involved. They'll also ask if the childcare and housework is being evenly distributed and if there are romantic gestures, etc. OP just answered those questions off the bat for us.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Seems like a use it or lose it situation. His attention is hers to lose, for the moment.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

present 82 said:


> Thats a good question. We definitely don't spend a lot of time together. After the children are bedded, we generally watch TV or read next to each other and we both read together before bed, which is not interaction. We used to have a date night once a week but she went back to work and that was the end of that. When we do have a date night, we like dining and movies.





present 82 said:


> Thats a good question. We definitely don't spend a lot of time together. After the children are bedded, we generally watch TV or read next to each other and we both read together before bed, which is not interaction. We used to have a date night once a week but she went back to work and that was the end of that. When we do have a date night, we like dining and movies.





present 82 said:


> I can certainly appreciate your ideas but, shoot, I'm tired too! I work 10 hours a day and share in 50% of the house work, child raising and nearly 80% of the financial responsibility. Lighting 50 candles 3 days per week to get laid.... well, seems unreasonable.


Do both you and your wife work full time? If she works the same number of hours that you do, then she might not earn as much as you but she is working as hard as you. You chose to marry a woman who cannot earn what you earn. Complaining about now is not conducive to a good relationship.

It’s not about lighting 50 candles, bit’s about lighting her fire. 

You both are doing NOTHING really to nurture your relationship. So what you have is what you both have created. The fact is that most women need a good amount of non-sexual intimacy to feel desire for sex. 
Why not do things to create time that you two can spend together. For example hire someone to do some of the housework. Then the two of you spend that time together doing things that nurture your relationship.

Get the books “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. Read them. Then ask her to read them with you and to work through the work suggested by the books.

When you talk to her about this, don’t say that it’s because you want sex. You want her to desire you, not just sex. Tell her it’s because she is the love of your life and you feel that you two are losing each other to the daily grind.

And do not do what someone suggested where you stop doing your fair share of house work and child care. That would be a HUGE negative. She’s not the maid or the nanny. You have as much responsibility for childcare and housework as she does.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I do agree with all this but it needs to be said in words, communication, not with flirting with other women. And I just spent all day debating that some circumstances (like lack of sex) are more likely to end up with a partner cheating, I understand what you are saying.
> 
> But regardless the OP has control over his actions and ones like that are not going to make a wife want to have sex with him.
> He needs to watch his behavior, not just for himself and his own sense of morals, but because there is not a lot less sexy than your husband getting all teenager horny over a hot girl or worse, flirting with them in front of you.
> ...


Note the below from the OP.



present 82 said:


> The challenge -
> 
> I think i'm a good looking fella. I'm successful, taking very good care of myself, dress well and am mindful that the words which come out of my mouth are actually impacting. *I am hit on around the office on a daily basis and at work events.* I would NEVER break my vow, but I am beginning to not feel as intimately confident as I once did. What's more, i'm beginning to resent my wife and now the thought of intimacy with her is weaning. Im also not seeing her the same way; less sexually and more friendship based. Shes becoming my sister and we've only been married for 4 years.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

present 82 said:


> I think your first point has measurable weight and is something I have considered. I especially appreciate the bit about how much women invest in raising a family. The fact remains, if this is a 50% relationship, why do I have to do the majority of the work? Because she the intimacy control person.
> She's just happy the way thing are! Of course i am willing to work harder because i need more, conversely, the work requires double the effort from her because she isn't the one in need.
> 
> It's a raw game. So much easier to end it or cheat.


You are the person here asking what to do. We cannot talk to her and suggest what she needs to do. So you are the one who we are making suggestions to. 

Does it really matter who does the work, if in the end it leads your marriage back to a good place?


----------



## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Tell her what you say in the title of your post.....
> 
> If she cares, she'll want to know what she can do to stop that from happening.


I like the direct approach. Tell it like it is. She will either respond or not. If not you know what course to take. Its actually simple thing to do but at the same time its scary and hard. 

You have to be willing to lose the relationship if you want to fix it but its really all about what you want and need. She is a professional on this very subject. She knows what makes relationships work and what causes them to fail. 

To me she may be doing this intentionally to drive you to take action. Maybe you really are just like a brother in her mind. Maybe that's the way she thinks a marriage should be but ultimately you are the one who will have to take action because she is content with the status quo. IMHO she is getting all her needs meet one way or another so why should she change. 

Just to cover all your bases and this may seem way out there but I would make sure her sexual needs aren't being met outside of your relationship. 

I also had a thought. Maybe because she is a M&F counselor she is being desensitized by dealing with all her clients all day and basically is burned out on those type of feelings. Maybe her work is having a similar effect that over use of porn can have on a man to the point he no longer pursues his real life flesh and blood partner. Just a thought. 


Good luck.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Solving this problem is not easy, and requires you to try a number of things in a trial and error type basis. Many things are being thrown out there, you have to try multiple things. And by trying I don't mean "do something nice" and then immediatly initate sex to see if it works.. 

But based on everything you wrote, you are doing a good job on your end, and you are in the process of checking out... So what it is time to do is directly tell your wife the following: My main need in marriage is sexual fulfillment. I feel your needs in marriage are A,B, C which I spend alot of time and effort trying to meet. I am tired of working very hard to meet your needs as my wife and not having my needs met in return. If I am missing the mark in what I am doing, I would love to hear about it. But all I know is I cannot continue not having my own needs met.

Now this is not meant to be a long drawn out discussion. If you say this, she will either tell you all the things you are doing wrong, or she will tell you all the reasons she can't meet your needs. If it's the former, then listen attentively and thank her for her input. If it's the latter, do not buy into any "excuses" but after she provides this information tell her that she has to decide what is most important to her and what kind of wife she wants to be.


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I can't believe a co worker would say that to you. It's very inappropriate even if you weren't married. If she was a man and you were a woman you would probably tell him off and report him to HR but because you are a man and she is women you laugh it off and are flattered. Double standard It sounds like you have a great wife and marriage, you just want more sex. You have a higher libido than her plus she is tired and and in Mommy mode and probably all touched out by the end of the day. Sex isn't as important to her as it is to you. Can you two reach a compromise like her initiating once in a while and having sex more often? You aren't going to get everything you want sex wise so be happy with any improvements she makes.

You should look at your marriage as half full not half empty, concentrate on the good parts. It surprises me you would think about cheating or leaving her. While sex in important in a marriage it's not everything and she shows you she loves you in other ways. Don't think I don't know how you feel because my husband is impotent so our sex life isn't much but I love him and would never think about cheating on him or leaving just because we don't have sex often.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

In what world is responding to someones question with the truth flirting? Truth is truth. Now, had I played the cat and mouse game with her then sure, that's flirting. But I didn't.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

Wow, someone can actually read... great job, @MJJEAN. And by the way, I have never cheated and never would. In that moment, with it all, I think it was an opportunity to finally admit to myself that - no, i'm not happy to be going home! 
We have the other two children half the week, so its not the standard "see the kids when we can" type agreement with my ex.

Heres some additional backlog

- My ex-wife and I get along very well and do a decent job co/parenting and have no concern with sharing custody i.e., she needs more time and we make that happen - i need more time and we make that happen, holidays we split based on who's going where and who needs what
- I dated my current wife for a year 
- My current wife is on antidepressants and has been since she was 18
- I don't consider myself ****y, but i'm also not depressed and don't have low self esteem
- I would divorce my wife before I cheated on her
- If someone flirts with me i'm certainly not going to ridiculously report them to HR haha, but I also would initiate or feed such behavior either
- I leave the house at 5:50 (when my wife returns from her workout) and am home by 6:15 most days and 7:15 twice a week (catch up days at the office)


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

Great Advice Varlor and Hicks!


----------



## Tito Santana (Jul 9, 2015)

My advice would be just talk to your wife. Instead of reading books next to each other tonight, talk about ti. I realize everybody has a different way of dealing with/solving problems, but for me and my wife, the direct route is always the easiest and least painful.

As for the issue at hand (lack of intimacy), that really sucks. Do you know how your wife is put into the mood? Is there any pattern? I feel fortunate in that my wife is aroused/put into the mood easily and directly. She always tells me it's mine and likes it when I take it when I want it (her words). I don't know if it's a function of our relationship being very good for awhile. We've been married 17 years and have had some ebbs and flows, but we've never denied each other sexual intimacy, which I feel is why we are in a good place. I believe my sex drive to be a little higher overall than my wife's (although, she has a very healthy drive), but unless she is dog tired, I never get denied. She knows it is important for us, and that we would not react well if we went through any sexual drought (and that lack of sex/intimacy is one of my big deal breakers).... I would think, being a counselor, that your wife would realize the importance of sex in a marriage.

Just talk with her, man. I would think, overall, that is going to provide you with the most insight, whether it's good news or bad news....


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

Tito Santana said:


> My advice would be just talk to your wife. Instead of reading books next to each other tonight, talk about ti. I realize everybody has a different way of dealing with/solving problems, but for me and my wife, the direct route is always the easiest and least painful.
> 
> As for the issue at hand (lack of intimacy), that really sucks. Do you know how your wife is put into the mood? Is there any pattern? I feel fortunate in that my wife is aroused/put into the mood easily and directly. She always tells me it's mine and likes it when I take it when I want it (her words). I don't know if it's a function of our relationship being very good for awhile. We've been married 17 years and have had some ebbs and flows, but we've never denied each other sexual intimacy, which I feel is why we are in a good place. I believe my sex drive to be a little higher overall than my wife's (although, she has a very healthy drive), but unless she is dog tired, I never get denied. She knows it is important for us, and that we would not react well if we went through any sexual drought (and that lack of sex/intimacy is one of my big deal breakers).... I would think, being a counselor, that your wife would realize the importance of sex in a marriage.
> 
> Just talk with her, man. I would think, overall, that is going to provide you with the most insight, whether it's good news or bad news....


And this is the reason you are able to get your relationship flowing again. Life is imperfect, as is relationships. For a number of different factors relationships lose steam and need to be rediscovered or even invented. But one thing that cant be denied is that a marriage, by definition, is not sexless. That is a friendship. Although my wife is certainly my friend, she is also my wife. Sex is a large part of what makes us inherently different than say a really good friend of the opposite sex. Otherwise, why else marry someone? In marrying you are agreeing to limit your sexual connection to that one person, not a sexless life that ebbs and flows based on one persons interests.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

OK, I'm going to stick my foot in it because I'm seeing something. It has been mentioned, and hinted at but it's not fully there. I Just finished His needs her needs last month so it is fresh in my mind. 

Some background. In my relationship, when my wife was just going back to work, and the kids were young and demanding, we were closest. Now as the kids are grown and we are settled in our employment, we're struggling. So how did we avoid what you are going through? We focused on US. We knew that the best thing we could give our kids was happy married parents. That was the priority, besides it was fun. 

Now I am seeing how you are good at making sure each other has plenty of personal time. (wrong!) You work 10 hours a day and have time to train for a half marathon? That's too much ME time. This is what Willard Harley Jr. would prescribe for you. For the next 30 days, don't do any recreational activity with out your partner. If she doesn't want to go. Do something else. That means that if you want to read you read to each other. I know it sounds impossible. I've not managed it myself. But you two are not maintaining your love for each other. Desperate times. 

Here is some reasoning behind it. Love is a balance of good feelings built up from small actions. Negative actions lower that balance. Inaction, fails to add enough credits to off set negative actions. In example, You love your wife and are devoted to her. She has a large love balance. But she is busy and tired, so she isn't making deposits. (Inaction) when you try to initiate sex or even foreplay she rejects you. That lowers the balance. She doesn't make enough deposits to keep up with it and you are starting to think of her as a Sister, or Friend. 

Another example. You leave a note on her car. Deposit! You give her a massage. Deposit! your account should be growing. But, you spend all weekend running a race. Neutral when it could have been a deposit. You grab her behind while she is trying to cook. Negative. (we know it is by her reaction) You Sulk about not getting enough sex. Could be another negative. Your balance is probably holding steady but might be dropping. You need to be more observant of how she is reacting to your attentions. Some of the things you are doing are not working. You are missing a lot of opportunities to score points, by pursuing ME time too much. 

This is not all that is going on But I think it is a glaring problem. Some other things that are possible contributors.
Medication - Some of those Anti depressants lower libido. 
Her first Child and adjusting to the Role of Mother.
Conflict in her mind about her Role. Is She Mother, lover, or Therapist? (she can be all three but she may not have sorted it out.)
Her feelings about Sex (some of her comments sound .... well... Catholic)
Job Stress. New to the job is a tough time.
more


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

K I am going to share something personal. Great relationship 30+ years blah blah blah. My beef is now not the quantity of sex but the overall sexual relationship. I am a sexual person. She's a good Catholic, mom, sister, niece, teacher, wife. Lots of hats and I get that. I've been trying to get through to her for a few years and she seems to get it but not really. 

So it's a VERY common thing for women to not get the entireness of sex in a typical man. I used the phrase "sexual life" and it dislodged something in her brain. I told her I was disappointed because I had thought - based on talks over the past few years - that we were communicating. Tons of changes - have all been great. But I said I had hoped I could invite her into my sexual life, but was disappointed that she decided she didn't want to join me. 

She said she never thought of herself as having a sexual life. It was this, that or sex and sex is at night after the kids are asleep. I said no it's not incompatable with life. It runs concurrently; its not either / or. It's putting on a little makeup and showing a little cleavage at home. The kids won't negatively judge you - it's ok to reveal a bit of your sexual nature. It can be a flirt or a text. It can be sensual or sexual or romantic.

I do believe I have a sexual life - I got that term from an Everclear song but it resonated. It's not sex as an act, it's the sexual part of me and it's always available for my wife. I think most men are this way and most women don't realize it.

The pawing is when an expression of the always-on sexual life that slips out. Nothing more or less. Stopping the pawing doesn't put the sexual life to sleep it just admonishes it for expressing itself.

I don't know if this helps, and frankly I don't know if it will stick here either. We are both sooooo busy. But it is something that let a sliver of light through so thought I'd pass it on.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> K I am going to share something personal. Great relationship 30+ years blah blah blah. My beef is now not the quantity of sex but the overall sexual relationship. I am a sexual person. She's a good Catholic, mom, sister, niece, teacher, wife. Lots of hats and I get that. I've been trying to get through to her for a few years and she seems to get it but not really.
> 
> So it's a VERY common thing for women to not get the entireness of sex in a typical man. I used the phrase "sexual life" and it dislodged something in her brain. I told her I was disappointed because I had thought - based on talks over the past few years - that we were communicating. Tons of changes - have all been great. But I said I had hoped I could invite her into my sexual life, but was disappointed that she decided she didn't want to join me.
> 
> ...


Now this is interesting.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> OK, I'm going to stick my foot in it because I'm seeing something. It has been mentioned, and hinted at but it's not fully there. I Just finished His needs her needs last month so it is fresh in my mind.
> 
> Some background. In my relationship, when my wife was just going back to work, and the kids were young and demanding, we were closest. Now as the kids are grown and we are settled in our employment, we're struggling. So how did we avoid what you are going through? We focused on US. We knew that the best thing we could give our kids was happy married parents. That was the priority, besides it was fun.
> 
> ...


Yes, MR.NAIL - She is Catholic! Went to a Catholic private school from elementary to high school and even college. She's ok with unconventional living, one would have a tough time being conventional as a therapist, but not in the bedroom. Missionary is her bread and butter. She is very quiet and I can tell she just wants me to finish so she can get back to her book. 

I have never - never - been in a situation like this. Even my ex-wife, who was a monster, would want to have sex(even if we were fighting) and my current wife and I never fight. My ex-girlfriends used to beg for me to be inside them and infact there was only one other person i've been with who was remotely, and that's used lightly, like my wife and that was because she was inexperienced. 

I doubt my running is coming in-between our relationship. Exercise helps balance my life and assists in maintaining my relationship with myself. So many couples become gelled, whether they have a strong relationship or not, and are both fat, have little confidence outside of the relationship and only exist together. I want and certainly desire being closer with my wife, and not just physically, but i'm not willing to sacrifice the nurturing on myself to do that. 

We have addressed this issue so many times, "communicated openly" about this issuer so repetitively, that im afraid im starting not to give a snap anymore. Shes losing a great man and she doesnt even recognize it. Its probable time to, as one of you have relayed, to come clean about the impact of her choices with regard to this. I have been very cautious and softly respectful in relaying my concerns because frankly, that's what we do. When you love someone you exercise patience, you hold back things that may hurt your partner and you find the less costly way to get your point across while also listening to theirs. Im at the end of my wits, and for what? I deserve to receive what i need too. 

Someone mentioned cutting her off, and i feel that is absolutely what needs to happen. She has everything she needs, emotionally, from me. Why should she change her actions? She has no incentive to absorb how I feel and respond. So i'm cutting back on the affection, the showering (which is probably smothering), the calls and certainly the requests for sex. What's interesting is that as this situation has began to boil, she's inevitably changed the way I perceive her. I see her less sexually and more maternally. So, i've already began to lose interest in her touch and frankly, i'm kinda turned off by her. Over the last several weeks i've begun to dislike her figure, and everything "sexual" about her. I still love her and think she is a wonderful person, but shes no longer a sexual being to me... Which is no doubt why I have begun to notice the advances of other women. Those advances have likely always been there but i have not been where I am, this frustrated, long enough to notice. I've begun to avoid going to bed with her, I try to either go before or after her so I don't even have to face a potential sexual interaction. I know that if she asked to be intimate it's only out of duty. Screw that.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Wow, yep you have a religious problem. Your beliefs simply don't match hers. I was going to suggest to you that nurturing your relationship would be a good way to nurture yourself, but. . . . now I just don't know. The wolf you feed will win.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

That wolf wins every time. I think it's time I feed myself for a change. Let's see how she does with long term sexual and passion-based abandonment. I honestly don't think she realizes how painful this is, MR. NAIL


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

So she IS intimidated by sex. She is afraid to embrace it and is having a neurotic avoidance reaction. It's the upbringing. You can help her though and she is a therapist so if you make her confront this she should have the tools to address it. She needs your help though to make her address it because it is too intimidating alone.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

My question is this: Whatever continues to give men in the US this idea that they will have sex when they are married? This is inexplicable, particularly when the evidence today is so damning on this question. There are more sexless marriages in the US today than ever before, mainly due to high stress levels, both partners working, physical fatigue, obesity and health issues, and mental distractions (ipads, netflix, etc). If a man marries at all anymore, he does so with an expectation of primarily three things: frequent sex, companionship and children. In experiencing this situation I am now seeing that it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to figure out that after the wedding, the blowjobs stop. So I don't feel sorry for myself anymore. This is my reward for marrying a woman who was a prude and not standing my ground about my needs. She lied to me about sex and intimacy, as the majority of women do. They then threaten you with divorce if you decide to obtain sex elsewhere. I finding it disingenuous for an adult man in the 21st century to say "Oh look what's happening to me...", which I have clearly done. NO more! In writing to you all and discussing this I am seeing more and more clearly. My wife is playing GATEKEEPER! Dude, all married men suffer from these horse**** lies. I'm not quite ready to divorce her ass already and get me some *****, but i'm certainly done begging and working towards her better side in an effort to "deserve" getting laid. 

It's time for the table to turn! She's cut off.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

present 82 said:


> .....I don't know that the situation started at some point, as much as it was likely present the entire time and i just wasn't willing to see it mindfully. ...





present 82 said:


> I have never - never - been in a situation like this. Even my ex-wife, who was a monster, would want to have sex(even if we were fighting) and my current wife and I never fight. My ex-girlfriends used to beg for me to be inside them and infact there was only one other person i've been with who was remotely, and that's used lightly, like my wife and that was because she was inexperienced.


The two comments above clearly define your problem. You married someone who you were never sexually compatible with in the first place. The best that you can do now is to communicate your needs and ask her to communicate hers, but you will never force her to change into either your ex-wife or any of your previous girlfriends. 

You mentioned in your OP that you and your wife get along well and do not argue or fight. Barring the sexual mismatch, your relationship is a good one filled with more good times than bad. If you choose to act upon your resentment and punish her with "long term sexual and passion-based abandonment", you will end up in a sexless (by definition) marriage but one filled with strife in all areas.

Look, it sounds like you are done with the marriage. There is nothing wrong with that, however, unless you fix your 'picker', you WILL repeat history. You want to avoid turning into that twice or thrice divorced, 40 year old man arguing with his baby-mommas over child custody schedules and support payments. 

If you want to give it one last go with your wife before calling it quits, then approach it in a positive manner. Openly communicate your unhappiness with your wife. Ask her to attend marriage counseling (yes, I know she's one herself but even Drs. get sick and need other drs. to treat them). Read His Needs/Her Needs by Dr. Harley as a couple. Read Five Love Languages. Read "Models: Attract Women Through Honesty"by Harmon (it's written for single men but has some good information that can be adopted by married guys). 

All suggestions but the bottom line is that you're going to have to take the lead in fixing these issues simply because they are more important to you than they are to her. Sounds unfair. Absolutely, but life is not fair.

Calling @UMP and @Young at Heart. They may have some advice that'll help you with your wife.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

Good advice except: 
"Look, it sounds like you are done with the marriage. There is nothing wrong with that, however, unless you fix your 'picker', you WILL repeat history. You want to avoid turning into that twice or thrice divorced, 40 year old man arguing with his baby-mommas over child custody schedules and support payments."

Fear of the feature is the worst reason to avoid being happy. Not saying that if 10 represents a happy marriage and 3 is the value of sexual happiness (for me) then we're still passing the class a 70%, isn't a great way to look at this, but i'm not afraid. More importantly, i've got **** you money, so there would be no arguing. Just saying, that's not my concern, some people need to learn a few times - I obviously haven't. I left my first wife because she wouldn't get medication for her bipolar disorder - turned out to be a great decision for both of us. She is happy and the kids are happy -it all was for the best. However, you are right, I married her, I just didn't know she was like this. She tricked me and she absolutely knew she likely couldn't keep up sexually, yet she was able to screw me often enough to get the ring. im sure im not the only person who has had this concern with her. I should have been smarter.

The only reason I would worry about future consequences would be considering the happiness and well being of our children - but the economic consequences don't mean a goddamn thing to me.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

There you go! Sounds like you have all of the answers to your dilemma.

Best of luck.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Stick a fork in it. He's done. Ironically she'll probably come around once he tells her he wants out but by then it will be too late. He'll be completely checked out by the time he works up to it.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Before you call it quits, read His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters (you can get them both on audio) and ask her listen to them as well.

Tell her how unhappy you are with the marriage and that you are considering ending it if the problems aren't addressed and corrected.

Mutually agree on a time frame for having both books listened to, and start talking about what you have heard. If she refuses, or fails to read the two books by the agreed upon time frame, you have your answer.

She seems to not be aware of her side, and you seem pretty sure you are an excellent husband any woman would want. After listening to the two books, you will have a good idea if you really are all that. If you are not, you will also be able to offer some hope to the marriage, as you work on your failings.

I am also pretty shocked that you thought that the conversation in the elevator was OK. Then you masturbated with thoughts of that woman in your head? That kind of behavior is not going to draw your heart back to your wife. You must stop all flirting and daydreaming of other woman if you want to stay in your marriage. You are headed down a dark path, and you need to get off it.

How often are you and your wife intimate?


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

So you're pissed and I get that. But you still should let her try to fix this. I suspect she is capable of being a great sexual partner but doesn't really "get it" yet. Before you throw in the towel talk. If you really are going to throw in the towel then make the EXACT demand you have. You probably want daily sex if some sort, blowjobs twice a week, handjob once or twice, regular PIV sex in at least 3 positions (which vary) two or three times a week, and spontaneous slightly naughty sex (bj in a party bathroom) once a week, 7 total sessions per week. Put it out in front!


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

thetruthurts - so bassically as if I were done.

Here's a question - what is too much or little? Its obviously personal preference....

What I would like? 
* Really naughty sex once every two weeks
* Her to initiate sex at least 30% of the time without making me feel like she's doing it because she feels "in trouble"
* A once/week blow job given with "sucked-like-it's-no one's-business" vigor
* Intimate contact 3-4 times a week depending on how we're both feeling and what's going on in our lives. It doesn't even have to be straight sex! I'd be happy with intimate touching in the middle of the night, or a naughty text, that is actually meant, and not some regurgitated crap read online, but something that she knows will turn me on. 
* At least two days a week, whether we're intimate that night or not, not going to bed like she's 60 with old sweats and a dingy tank-top. Show me you're something to be desired. Remind me why I chose you outside of mothering!

Not only would she have the happiest man on earth, but I would worship the ground she walks on and literally put my head down in the elevator! 


Chime in - is this too unrealistic??


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I don't think that's too much to ask, but it's not as simple as asking for what you want and her agreeing to do it. You want her to want to do it. Which is possible, but will require you explaining to her exactly how serious the sex life problem is AND getting her to be open with you about how to inspire her or you figuring it out through trial and error.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

No completely realistic! Look - no woman who loves her man wants him to be dissatisfied! The problem is we never admit what we really want, so if they start with a way too low idea of desire and cut it further, then you are very unhappy.

Start with what you REALLY want. Don't worry that you look like a sex maniac - be transparent and honest. What you said + at least 25% if you're honest. She'll negotiate down from there.

Yes I bet she will first be shocked then she will have a real problem - look at her job! She knows the next step. She's not meeting your needs.

I had the talk for quite s while then I finally said every day. And guess what? We do something every day. Mostly bjs and ironically I want something different 

So this thread has helped you see clearly. Now comes the hard part of being honest. It's tough to tell someone you love that they are not meeting your needs in this big a way. But give her a chance.

BTW the naughty stuff - give her time with that.

Btw - my agreement is to wake my wife up for this. She's exhausted at the end of the day and I let her sleep an hour or two then gently wake her for our intimate time. You can try that too


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

naiveonedave said:


> @EleGirl - I think you are way off on MMSLP. You need to be a sex starved man to get it. Sure it is crude, but the basic premises at least give a man a shot. And eventually this is going to be a deal breaker for the OP.


So is it different for a sex starved married woman. Should we have a book talking about how men lose value when they age? How about how we should do things to make them afraid that we will physically harm them because that turns men on?

Men chose to make their marriages sexless as often as women do. Men just talk openly about it more often. I don't think that the solution is denigrate all women.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

@TheTruthHurts Yeah, I absolutely love midnight escapades. My wife hates, let me repeat, HATES being woken up. That was probably the most difficult thing to get used to in our "adjustment" period. I've never met someone who, at least once a week or so, didn't enjoy a surprise ravage in the middle of the night. Shoot, especially at our age. 

That's the other thing that has me spooked. If were like this at 33 and 32, what will 40 be like? Given, of course, my labido should statistically lower and her should rise. My wife would be extremely happy if we had holiday sex and maybe a planned "when everything was perfect" rumble twice a month.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Ahh the infamous 7 year itch... now for your inconvenience coming in 4yr size.

Quite standard stuff. No longer focused on each other, and the honeymoon period of the marriage has worn off.

where to now?

really up to the two of you, and since you can only really decide for yourself; how are you going to re-woo your partner...and are they interested in returning the contribution?

don't be her father, or her your mother.
chances are you no longer act as young lovers, so why expect to feel like it?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

present 82 said:


> Thats a good question. We definitely don't spend a lot of time together. After the children are bedded, we generally watch TV or read next to each other and we both read together before bed, which is not interaction. We used to have a date night once a week but she went back to work and that was the end of that. When we do have a date night, we like dining and movies.


Read the same book then talk about it?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

82,

I feel for you I. This situation. My marriage failed, but I was getting all the sex I wanted. My current gf has a higher drive than I do, and mine is high.

One thing: I think it's bs that you cut her off, basically wrote her off as being your wife, without giving her a damn good scolding at what your beef is, and give her an opportunity to fix it. No whimpy "softly stating problems". You explain it to her just as plainly as you are with us. If she chooses to say fu 82, I'm not wanting any sex and I'm not obliging.

Then, and only then, do I feel like you have a right to get this upset, this resentful, and this eager to go elsewhere.

You are a successful sounding guy. You're still married. Keep her if you can. Lay it all out there for her. Don't hold a damn thing back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

present 82 said:


> In what world is responding to someones question with the truth flirting? Truth is truth. Now, had I played the cat and mouse game with her then sure, that's flirting. But I didn't.


You and your wife have very serious problems. But it's not sexual in nature. If the encounter in the elevator was so inconsequential did you tell your wife and have a laugh over it? Why do all of those romantic things and then be so disloyal to her that you invite a random woman to heap disrespect on your own wife. 

I think you should forget getting the kind of sex you want for now and assess what you already have. Lets start with the wife you are not loving. This is a woman to whom you have entrusted two of your children. She is a good mother to them? She is nurturing your children along with the one you have in common. 

She is a rare woman do you think she deserves any less than your deepest respect. Your wife works therefore provides some income to the family budget which must be welcomed, right. She keeps tract of the school work, Drs and dentist appointments, family obligation - she the manager. 

You feel entitled to better because you are successful at work, exercise and random women hit on a married man with 3 children and your wife does not rip your suit off in lust. That may be enough reason to fall out of love and disrupt the lives of 3 children two of whom has had this happen before. 

There are responsible father's and husband that pull out all of the stops get the help they need to make the marriage work. They tell their wives about the seriousness of the problem and follow up with action. It may be worth the effort if they have a loving wife, a secure home for their children and they know a good thing when they see it.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@cathern602 what does any of that have to do with the fact that this need isn't being met, and it's an important enough need to get divorced over? Whether she's a good wife or not is irrelevant. He needs to state his needs - I agree stop with cutting her off - just be honest


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

present 82 said:


> thetruthurts - so bassically as if I were done.
> 
> Here's a question - what is too much or little? Its obviously personal preference....
> 
> ...


You don't want much. Why would she do all of these things for you? To make you happy? If she is not happy she won't be interested in making you happy. When would she have time for anything besides giving the obligatory bj, dress up, seduction on schedule, reassure you that she is worth your while, blah blah. 

You married the wrong woman. She is too far away form what you want. There is no way you will be able to go the distance with her. Get it over with. Don't bother demanding all of these sexual services, just D. To do otherwise is cruel.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @cathern602 what does any of that have to do with the fact that this need isn't being met, and it's an important enough need to get divorced over? Whether she's a good wife or not is irrelevant. He needs to state his needs - I agree stop with cutting her off - just be honest


His needs are the most important thing of course. However, character may be equally important. A quality person can attract and keep a quality person. Is a man who tells a stranger in an elevator that he does not want to go home a mature man in command of his world. Would a woman of quality invite him home? I'll bet if his wife said the same and got an invite he would be affronted. 

Lack of bj, and other sexual services, and a wife who is not interested in making her life's work convincing her husband that she comes up too his high standards are reasons for D for him but no reason to disrespect his wife. He should D ASAP and get the women who is at his level.

She will be hurt at first but life without all the demands may be a relief to her. She can find someone who is not so fixated on what she can do for him sexually.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> His needs are the most important thing of course. However, character may be equally important. A quality person can attract and keep a quality person. Is a man who tells a stranger in an elevator that he does not want to go home a mature man in command of his world. Would a woman of quality invite him home? I'll bet if his wife said the same and got an invite he would be affronted.
> 
> Lack of bj, and other sexual services, and a wife who is not interested in making her life's work convincing her husband that she comes up too his high standards are reasons for D for him but no reason to disrespect his wife. He should D ASAP and get the women who is at his level.
> 
> She will be hurt at first but life without all the demands may be a relief to her. She can find someone who is not so fixated on what she can do for him sexually.


To be fair, he'd probably be pretty happy with a lot less than his total wish list. But she hasn't even taken one step in his direction. And really, you seem to be advocating for her to remain totally selfish and him to do ALL of the compromising, just because you don't like what he wants or his approach.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> You don't want much. Why would she do all of these things for you? To make you happy? If she is not happy she won't be interest din making you happy. When would she have time for anything besides giving the obligatory bj, dress up, seduction on schedule, reassure you that she is worth your while, blah blah.
> 
> You married the wrong woman. She is too far away form what you want. There is no way you will be able to go the distance with her. Get it over with. Don't bother demanding all of these sexual services, just D. To do otherwise is cruel.


I disagree. She isn't making any effort in an important aspect of his life. He is not wanting what any other man with a normal sex drive wants. If she's unwilling to compromise it's on her, not him. She sounds like a great gal--- a great gal with no sex drive. I wouldn't want that, either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> His needs are the most important thing of course. However, character may be equally important. A quality person can attract and keep a quality person. Is a man who tells a stranger in an elevator that he does not want to go home a mature man in command of his world. Would a woman of quality invite him home? I'll bet if his wife said the same and got an invite he would be affronted.
> 
> Lack of bj, and other sexual services, and a wife who is not interested in making her life's work convincing her husband that she comes up too his high standards are reasons for D for him but no reason to disrespect his wife. He should D ASAP and get the women who is at his level.
> 
> She will be hurt at first but life without all the demands may be a relief to her. She can find someone who is not so fixated on what she can do for him sexually.


You don't get it. It's not all about the sex. The sex makes him feel close to his wife, feel desired, feel excited about coming home. If he doesn't, and his wife knows this and does nothing--- yes, he could find it elsewhere. To hell with a sexless marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MichelleR (Jan 6, 2016)

If you're at the point where you are ready to end the whole thing, then what is there to lose with telling her everything? Tell her that you want to leave this marriage because you're not getting your needs met and that you're willing to give all of what you have up over this. You say you've talked about this over and over but does she really understand how serious this is for you? Has she told you what she wants sexually or has she stated that she has just hardly any sex drive at all? 

I understand being tired as I work and have three small kids myself but my husband and I still have very good sex when we can. My husband is also very vocal about not getting enough if we have a time where I'm too busy or tired or if we are just fighting more often. How vocal are you with her about this? Do you actually get mad or of you act like it's no big deal? 

That being said you might simply be incompatible sexually. My husband's first wife hardly gave him any sex and he was honest with her about it and told her he'd leave her if she didn't change and after a while where she didn't change he divorced her. My husband is gorgeous and masculine and I can't imagine why she didn't want sex but she either didn't want it or just was not upfront about her feelings and didn't communicate her needs and resented him to the point of not wanting sex. 

This whole story is so sad though. Your wife works hard and probably does a lot for you. Do you think she still loves you? If you can figure out a way to get the spark back I think it would be worth it. Sometimes I get pissed at my husband and fantasize about divorcing him (we have our ups and downs which I think is normal) but I think about how devastating it would be for our children and I make an effort to improve our marriage. Thing is, my marriage ALWAYS improves when I make an effort, when I decide to try to be nicer just for the sake of being a nicer person. 

She may respond positively to you if you make more of an effort with her. You don't have to light 50 candles but do little things like thank her for all her hard work and tell her what you find beautiful about her.

Right now you sound bitter that you're an attractive man who can't get enough sex so going out of your way to be a little romantic May be the last thing you want to do but it might pay off. 

It's worth a try at least. And if being completely honest coupled with more of an effort to bring back some romance still doesn't work, then you can accept the fact that you're not compatible but know you gave it as much of a chance as you could.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

* A once/week blow job given with "sucked-like-it's-no one's-business" vigor

Don't forget her eaten like you're starving to death oral sex (or whatever she is wanting ) as well. 

If you present her with a sexual needs list, do not forget to include her in it.If I got that list, I would think "that's a lot of his wants, where the heck am I?"

I want naughty sex- this is fine but but a little vague to me. 

I would like a method of " I want to spice things up, let's looks at some websites together and pick things we both might like" You write some down, she writes some down. You get some veto options and see if there's some compromises there. 

If there is absolutely nothing she wants sexually then figure out what her needs are and commit to meeting them while discussing your own. 

You say lighting all those candles is too much, I'm guessing that means having to romance her into sex all the time, but if she wants wild, crazy romance and you want wild, crazy sex then it's not too much. It's just what you each need and if you want her to provide your list, you'll have to do hers.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> * A once/week blow job given with "sucked-like-it's-no one's-business" vigor
> 
> Don't forget her eaten like you're starving to death oral sex (or whatever she is wanting ) as well.
> 
> ...


Good post....

I'm also wondering why the need for non-sexual intimacy has been totally brush aside.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> You don't get it. It's not all about the sex. The sex makes him feel close to his wife, feel desired, feel excited about coming home. If he doesn't, and his wife knows this and does nothing--- yes, he could find it elsewhere. To hell with a sexless marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not taking issue with his right to happiness and sex. We all should have what we feel is important, if possible. Is sexual frustration enough reason to tell a stranger in an elevator that he does not want to go home? I don't think so and it shows a lack of respect. Would you like it if your spouse did the same to you?


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

This is one of those threads where I would love to hear from the other spouse.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

present 82 said:


> thetruthurts - so bassically as if I were done.
> 
> Here's a question - what is too much or little? Its obviously personal preference....
> 
> ...


Yes, that is unrealistic in your situation. Of course some women would be up for that frequency and type of sex, but you're not married to one of them, or you wouldn't be here.

Here's what I would think is realistic in your situation:

Don't expect her to initiate. Many women have responsive desire (see the MMSLP book for an explanation of this).

Don't expect blow jobs. Many, if not most, women don't like to give them, and I don't think forcing them to do that is a good idea.

Don't expect her to necessarily be all over you when you start, but unless she really is frigid, she should get into once you are warmed up.

Do expect sex at least twice a week. Put it on the schedule for Wednesday and Saturday, or whatever days work for you.

Anything less than that would be unacceptable, as far as I would be concerned, in your situation. You can do a lot better than a wife who doesn't want to have sex with you with reasonable frequency.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> To be fair, he'd probably be pretty happy with a lot less than his total wish list. But she hasn't even taken one step in his direction. And really, you seem to be advocating for her to remain totally selfish and him to do ALL of the compromising, just because you don't like what he wants or his approach.


You are right, the list bothered me. Not making an effort to meet his sexual needs is inexcusable. She can easily ramp up her level of involvement and do what ever is needed to feel the passion again. If she loses him because of this, she can't blame anyone. She should reflect on that and heal herself using her skills as a family therapist. 

However, the list seems to be a request for his wife to act out a series of porn videos. His wife could be anyone as long as she makes it worth his time. Not romantic, seductive, loving, just plain sexual servicing. 

The item that was most offensive was wanting her to prove her worth to him. Really? Why?


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> You are right, the list bothered me. The content mostly. If I was given such a list I would consider the relationship over. The list seems to be a request to bring porn to life. Not romantic, seductive, loving, just plain sexual serving.
> 
> The item that was most offensive was wanting her to prove her worth to him. Really?


That last line....admittedly I skimmed over the post and didn't see that part. I'm not offended per se, but I think that line shows the wrong attitude, unless it's said in the context of each continually proving their worth to each other.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> You are right, the list bothered me. The content mostly. If I was given such a list I would consider the relationship over. The list seems to be a request to bring porn to life. Not romantic, seductive, loving, just plain sexual serving.
> 
> The item that was most offensive was wanting her to prove her worth to him. Really?


ITA. I would be very turned off by that list. 

If it was more, 'I want to connect with you, feel your whole body, explore with you' type of feeling to it then I agree with it but it's all me, me, me

He doesn't want her to be all Mom when she goes to bed yet he saddled her with extra kids and stopped taking her out on dates. 

But hey, he smacks her on the behind so she should be good to go, right?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Any man that read and believes in MMSLP becomes a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't give him a second of my time. 

Read it with caution, many women can see right through the games and manipulation and don't respect it at all. Could turn your bad situation into worse.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Catherine602 said:
> 
> 
> > You are right, the list bothered me. The content mostly. If I was given such a list I would consider the relationship over. The list seems to be a request to bring porn to life. Not romantic, seductive, loving, just plain sexual serving.
> ...


Your reaction to his needs is irrelevant. Frankly even if it's completely unromantic and one sided that's fine. HIS needs. She can articulate her own. Remember this is D worthy stuff


----------



## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Any man that read and believes in MMSLP becomes a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't give him a second of my time.
> 
> Read it with caution, many women can see right through the games and manipulation and don't respect it at all. Could turn your bad situation into worse.


Maybe I glossed over all the BS that others found so offensive, but I read ALOT of books at the time. All of them recommended from here. It helped me to some degree, but I ignored the PUA stuff, I wasn't looking to game my wife, just trying to get back what we once had. We both failed in some regards. 

As they say, take what you need and disregard the rest. I found it helpful but looking back now I can see why a lot of it upsets people. 

I also learned from other books to never speak in absolutes. :grin2:

Cheers,
V(13)


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Your reaction to his needs is irrelevant. Frankly even if it's completely unromantic and one sided that's fine. HIS needs. She can articulate her own. Remember this is D worthy stuff


Needs still should be presented in a productive way and able to meet them together. 

If she had a list

I want him to run my feet daily for 1 hour
I want him to fill every room with candles and rose pedals twice a week
I want him to take me on full day dates with spa visits and walks on the beach once a week.

That's a little unproductive and not a lot of room for compromise. 

I need more romance, let's discuss how we can get there.
I need more dates, let's sit down and plan some that will be fun for both of us. 
More productive, yes?

he should do the same thing IMO. He'll get further


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> That last line....admittedly I skimmed over the post and didn't see that part. I'm not offended per se, but I think that line shows the wrong attitude, unless it's said in the context of each continually proving their worth to each other.


Right now, I don't think he will be able to consider the implications of where his frustration is taking him. Over-the-top expectations or at lest presenting expectations in an offensive way will not help him in this relationship or future ones, should it come to that.

He may feel that if his wife does the list then that will make up for the pain and disappointment of his marriage. It won't. I don't think he is really as selfish as he seems here. More like super frustrated and angry. Better he should post that list here and not give it to his wife.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

Telling the truth, out of sheer frustration, to a stranger, is in no way a disrespectful act towards my wife. I love my wife dearly and have never disrespected her.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ok I guess we are off track. THESE ARE NOT OVER THE TOP EXPECTATIONS. 

I get that some may not like them but HONESTY is what is called for.

We at TAM should not judge the needs of others.

And there is no need to present it nicely or in any particular manner. W is a counselor so she should be analytical enough to get that this is a presentation of needs, not a request for romance


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

@cathrene602 

You have a really unilaterally unobjective view. I am equally responsible in being the person my with thought see married. Taking care of myself, treating myself well and loving myself appropriately, being honest and a great father and husband. That is a healthy relationship element. Ensuring that you're someone your wife would STILL marry. And I believe my wife should ~strive~ to be that same person for me.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Your reaction to his needs is irrelevant. Frankly even if it's completely unromantic and one sided that's fine. HIS needs. She can articulate her own. Remember this is D worthy stuff


It's fine for him but what motive would his wife have in making herself available for unromantic one sided sex. Fear of D is no incentive. 

Both their needs are relevant. She does not need to over function for him and he does not need to over function for her in order to stay married. If she gets nothing out of having sex with her loving husband then she is justified to refuse and risk D.


----------



## present 82 (Jan 7, 2016)

The list was posted in response to the advice of another poster i.e., 'be clear about what you want - make a list, even if it is a lot' so I made a 'like this?' list.

Some of you would benefit from reading the entire thread so your responses are relaxant.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

present 82 said:


> Telling the truth, out of sheer frustration, to a stranger, is in no way a disrespectful act towards my wife. I love my wife dearly and have never disrespected her.


Did you share the exchange with your wife? Strangers in elevators don't need to hear about your frustrations, it's none of their business. This incident is a big deal. It's a window on how you see yourself and how much in control of your life you feel. 

Would a CEO or head of department or full professor risk that exchange with a random person. Would she set herself up to receive the response you got? It's undignified. I think the problems in your marriage are effecting your self image.

If you had your sh1t together, you would have answered politely and moved on. If you made the mistake of sharing intimate details of your life, you would feel some misgivings. Finally, you would not feel flattered because your ego is strong without frivolous flirtations. 

Having command of yourself and respecting your privacy is important to you. No matter what your circumstances in life act like you are in control. Look at Trump, see what I mean. 

My advice is to suspend all romantic gestures, foot rubs, back rubs candles, etc. Its too frustrating and each time you are disappointed it takes away from your self regard. Do your share of the household duties but don't overdo. Don't act angry or mean. Be calm and act with deliberation and control.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Ok I guess we are off track. THESE ARE NOT OVER THE TOP EXPECTATIONS.
> 
> I get that some may not like them but HONESTY is what is called for.
> 
> ...


Ok. not judging just giving an opinion on the odds of a successful outcome given human nature. People have a tendency to value their contribution to a relationship and are not likely to feel they need to compensate their partner. He can ask for anything. 

The asking is not without consequences so he needs to consider that. If he does not need to be nice, he can't expect her to be nice, can he. You advise him to aggressively demand sex acts from his wife because he has needs. But what self respecting woman would give a man who is not so nice a porn worthy bj because he needs it? That is fantasy not real life. 

Have you ever gotten a bj from your wife after an insensitive demand? Why do you encouraging 84 to do something that has 0 chance of working. .


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Cathern602 I mean no disrespect and I am blunt by nature and am misinterpreted as a result. I totally understand your point of view and if OP was in any other state of his marriage I would agree.

However he is considering divorce as a result of this problem so it is no longer just a discussion. Instead it's really HIS problem. He hadn't been clear and completely honest therefore she hasn't been given an opportunity to respond. I totally get why... but it's time to get it on the table, even if it's unromantic as he11

She's probably a great catch / I think she can handle this if given a chance.


----------



## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

I wonder if maybe you're not meeting her needs as well as you think you are.

Let's say she offers to do you every night while wearing a strap-on. Will that satisfy your sexual need? Probably not, because it's not what you want!

You feel you're making the effort with your love notes, flowers, and staying in shape. But if those aren't the things she WANTS, they'll be about as effective as her pegging you.

Do you know her love language? Maybe you guys should take the quiz. You might be able to replace flowers with cuddling, or love notes with listening to her vent her problems. Make sure you're giving her the things she wants, not just what you think she wants.


----------



## MichelleR (Jan 6, 2016)

Okay when I first read the list about the sexual needs I was a little surprised because it's hard for a working mother of little ones to have the energy to have sex during the work week or even dress decently at home. I always have snot and baby vomit on my clothes myself, I can't help it.

However this list was a statement of an ideal situation, and it's good to know clearly what you'd like. Basically you want some enthusiasm from her and I don't see anything wrong with that. Now if you were to present the list directly to her I'd probably word it differently but the post was in response to a question on here from one of the members. If you do decide to give her a list of your sexual needs I'd try to focus on how you want some passion from her and how you are willing to make more of an effort with her if she's willing to make more of an effort with you.

My guess is that she thinks everything is fine because she probably communicates her needs openly with you. I assume that because she's a therapist. Is that true? You said you've talked and talked and talked about it but does she really know how serious of an issue it is for you? 

I hope you guys can work it out for the sake of your kids. There is no harm in trying. However I really do think some women are sexually frigid, even if their emotional needs are being met. It might be because of their upbringing. I know that my sister in law refuses to let her husband see her naked with the lights on because she feels insecure, and any kinky talk during sex is completely off limits. She told me this herself, and I know that her husband told my husband (they're brothers) that she always just acts like she wants him to get it over with. I know other friends though who have told me that they love giving blow jobs so there are definitely more sexual women out there. 

I say try to see if you can communicate your desires clearly and if it doesn't work, decide how much of a priority it is to you. My brother in law stays with his wife because she's an awesome wife in every other way and she actually does do her best to meet his sexual needs. No one is perfect and you have to decide which qualities in a spouse are the most important to you.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Once more into the fray.

She believes (and her actions back this up) that sex should be limiter to very specific situations. Otherwise it is a sin. He believes that regular frequent sex is part of a marriage. Fundamental incompatibility. I don't see a fix. And. Yes, His wife Picker is broken.

that comment about the wolf refers to an old fable. If you take care of your self first. You will have yourself. If you feed the relationship, you will have a relationship. the wolf you feed will win. Are you feeding the wolf you want to win?


----------



## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> She believes (and her actions back this up) that sex should be limiter to very specific situations. Otherwise it is a sin. He believes that regular frequent sex is part of a marriage. Fundamental incompatibility. I don't see a fix. And. Yes, His wife Picker is broken.


I'm always a little skeptical of the "she just doesn't like sex" assessment, especially when I don't have the wife's side. Sometimes it's absolutely true, but sometimes we just don't have all the info.

My ex-husband was absolutely sure that I just didn't like sex and there was nothing anyone could do about it. But really, he was ignoring most of my emotional needs (he had a different idea of what I needed than I did), and he wasn't doing things I liked in bed. He would tell you he was meeting my needs just fine, and I was just frigid.

This may not be the case for OP, we don't know. Just sayin'... Just because he's pushing buttons, doesn't mean he's pushing the RIGHT buttons.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

present 82 said:


> I can certainly appreciate your ideas but, shoot, I'm tired too! I work 10 hours a day and share in 50% of the house work, child raising and nearly 80% of the financial responsibility. *Lighting 50 candles 3 days per week to get laid.... well, seems unreasonable.*


I have read your whole thread, twice.

What I have come away with both times is that you are feeling pretty good about yourself, that you flirt inappropriately with other women which boosts your ego even more, while simultaneously drawing your away from your wife. In addition, your wife is a good, and hardworking woman, whom you are willing to divorce because you only get sex twice a month, besides the fact that she is not enthusiastic when it does happen.

Regarding the part of your quote which I bolded, have you considered the fact that to your wife, being tired and overworked, having sex requires as much work as lighting 50 candles 3 days per week would require of you? You believe that to work for her arousal is "unreasonable" yet you don't believe that your expectations of more than sex twice a month are unreasonable.

You are not even trying to see things from her perspective.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> present 82 said:
> 
> 
> > I can certainly appreciate your ideas but, shoot, I'm tired too! I work 10 hours a day and share in 50% of the house work, child raising and nearly 80% of the financial responsibility. *Lighting 50 candles 3 days per week to get laid.... well, seems unreasonable.*
> ...


I don't see this as some mystery game with no instructions. Her job to articulate what arouses her. Yeah he comes off as kind of douchy at times, but she probably knew that when she married him.

If she's not getting her needs met and not articulating it, I think that's on her.


----------



## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> If she's not getting her needs met and not articulating it, I think that's on her.


Then I hope he's a good listener, and not quick to disregard thoughts he doesn't approve of... *ahem*


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

OpenWindows said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> > If she's not getting her needs met and not articulating it, I think that's on her.
> ...


What might he not approve of?


----------



## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> What might he not approve of?


Anything outside of his game plan. He seems to have a very clear idea of how this should work... he's doing everything right, she should give it up passionately because he wants it, nothing else needs to change. He just seems very quick to reject any suggestion outside of that game plan. 

I get the impression he's not as intent on fixing it as he is on leaving. And that's okay, but if it's the case, he should be honest about it.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

No, I think he wants HER to want him, which is not so danged out of the realm of what everyone wants. I don't think he was being "diuche" either. He was just saying it plain. He is just a man. He wants to be wanted. Nothing wrong with that. 
If she's oblivious to her husband wanting to be desired, and doing nothing to ensure the health if their marriage, she's not much of a therapist. 

That said, he should tell his wife plainly before thinking anything about divorce. That's not right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> No, I think he wants HER to want him, which is not so danged out of the realm of what everyone wants. I don't think he was being "diuche" either. He was just saying it plain. He is just a man. He wants to be wanted. Nothing wrong with that.
> If she's oblivious to her husband wanting to be desired, and doing nothing to ensure the health if their marriage, she's not much of a therapist.
> 
> That said, he should tell his wife plainly before thinking anything about divorce. That's not right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree. The douchy part had to do with a few of his comments but none having to do with his comments about sex with his wife though


----------



## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

Oh, he can want sex, and he can ask for it. No problem.

But he doesn't seem to think he has any responsibility for his situation, or for making changes to fix it. That seems highly unlikely to me.

If he wants passionate, meaningful sex, he needs to offer something in return. The threat of divorce alone does not inspire passion. And this marriage doesn't seem unbalanced enough for her to just owe it to him. She's holding up her end with the home and kids, he's got plenty of time for himself (does she?), and they're not sexless.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

OpenWindows said:


> Oh, he can want sex, and he can ask for it. No problem.
> 
> But he doesn't seem to think he has any responsibility for his situation, or for making changes to fix it. That seems highly unlikely to me.
> 
> If he wants passionate, meaningful sex, he needs to offer something in return. The threat of divorce alone does not inspire passion. And this marriage doesn't seem unbalanced enough for her to just owe it to him. She's holding up her end with the home and kids, he's got plenty of time for himself (does she?), and they're not sexless.


I'm sorry you don't see what so many of us see so clearly. I think you represent the views of many women, but I am also aware that many marriages are troubled.

To talk about housework and kids in the same vein as intimacy and sex underscores the problem many men and women have in marriage.

Home, kids, work, etc are things supporting a household and family.

Sex, intimacy, dating time, face time, talk time are critical to a relationship.

They are in no way interchangeable. That's the problem. As long as his W thinks they are, his marriage is in peril.

BTW we know nothing about her needs and whether they are being met so any comments about that are pure conjecture and speculation. If she comes here she can get advice and support with any issues she has.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

They both have plenty of time for them selves, and they both work hard to make sure that happens. What they don't have time for is the relationship. They both seem to think that if they are just Awesome individually they will be an awesome couple. 

Yes the OP has turned down every suggestion offered. Except for the idea of removing affection. Who knows it might work. she might wake up and see that he has reached the snap point. She may put all of that expensive class work to some effect in her own marriage. Or she might return to her roots. We have only his word. 

Endless speculation will never get us closer to what she is thinking. But the massage story really says it all. She has enough energy to drink up everything he offers. But her heart is empty for him.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Keeping in mind Love busters

Love Busters
Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty
Specifically:
Independent Behavior


and Emotional Needs

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration 

He needs to figure out which ones are his wife's specific needs and busters. If he's doing too much busting and not enough need giving in the right areas, or even just canceling his need giving out with his busting, he's not making progress to build love. 

Stopping everything may wake her up, may get even worse if she's already not getting her specific needs met or he's having behaviors that are annoying to her. 

Doing some of these with her 
Marital Problem Analysis
Emotional Needs Questionnaire
Love Busters Questionnaire

Might give him a better idea of what he is actually dealing with and a way for them both to say how they are feeling.


----------



## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

The thing about real intimacy is it can't be demanded, it's built.

OP, you say you spend very little time together and have no date nights. That romancing seems like too much work because you're tired. You openly state that while you want to be closer to your wife, you're not willing to sacrifice time you would spend "nurturing yourself" in order to do that.

The massage story really does say a lot on both sides. She certainly soaked up the attention and didn't reciprocate. But you offered the massage, and then asked for sex after, and were upset that you didn't get it. Did she know that sex was a condition of the massage? Covert contracts don't build intimacy, they hurt it.

My point is, if all of this stays the same and you start withholding attention or threaten divorce, you'll get duty sex. And I don't think duty sex is what you want. If you want intimacy and passion and enthusiastic sex, you need to build that intimacy. You need to learn to speak each others' love languages, to spend time together, to enjoy each other again. 

Right now, you're so stuck in your frustration that you're wanting to make demands and threaten punishment. That's a natural way to feel. But negative reinforcement will hurt your case, it will make sex a negative thing, and that's exactly the dynamic you want to change. It's time to teach your wife that good sex leads to good things in your marriage. You are the one who is unhappy, so you need to make the first steps and see if she follows.

Telling her you're considering divorce might be a good first step, because it will let her know how serious you are. But instead of telling her you're leaving if you don't get good sex, consider telling her you're thinking about leaving because you're losing your connection, and you'd like to work together to rebuild it. And keep in mind that she may have requests too, and they're just as valid as yours.


----------



## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

@Present82 I am very sorry that you are in so much pain. It's the worst feeling to be lonely IN a relationship.
I do hope that you will give your marriage another chance and be totally up front with your wife. Not with threats or ultimatums but by showing vulnerability and letting her see how much you're hurting and how she could meet you in simple ways that would be so reassuring to you and bring connection rather than more distance.



present 82 said:


> Yes, MR.NAIL - She is Catholic! Went to a Catholic private school from elementary to high school and even college. ...Missionary is her bread and butter. She is very quiet and I can tell she just wants me to finish so she can get back to her book.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just a few thoughts on the statements I quoted: women (and men) don't always realize that they have sexual hang ups due to religion or childhood training. Your wife could potentially learn to find her inner sex kitten if she were able to look at this dynamic. I was one of these women and for me it took a process of recognizing that I wasn't seeing sex in a healthy way and there was not something wrong with my husband because he wanted it so much! But that's not something YOU can really address, I just wanted you to know that she probably isn't *purposely* choosing to be a prude and most likely wishes she were more sexual. 

It IS completely up to you to tell her exactly how you are feeling and that you don't want to lose her but she is losing you. It's good that you are processing your feelings here so that as you talk to her you are able to say what you really mean. No more cautiously tip-toeing around what you REALLY need to say. If at this point you just up and left the marriage she may never know what the real issues were. Perhaps she WANTS to fix them. Perhaps she wishes things were different too!

Also you say that she has inevitably changed the way you perceive her, that you no longer feel sexually attracted to her. Don't worry too much about that one. It's actually not her that's doing that, it's you. It's an automatic defense mechanism to protect yourself from the constant rejection you have been feeling. 
If she were to change things up your attraction for her would return in a heartbeat.

The bigger concern is that you are guarding your heart and just exerting a ton of energy trying to do everything right in order to get the results you need.

I completely understand you guarding your heart because rejection hurts. But if you want to give this marriage a real last hurrah you will need to expose your heart to her again. It's vulnerability that brings true connection.

My H and I went through something recently where we were finding ourselves disconnected and bumping heads trying to pinpoint wth was going on. He was trying to be ultra vigilant and aware of my needs and read my mind and do every little thing right so I would be happy. But from my perspective I was feeling unloved and that he was being insincere and trying too hard to check off some 'list' that I hadn't even asked for. After about a month of this and a bunch of fights and total lack of seeing each others perspective he realized that a while back he had been triggered by something that had happened and went into self-protect mode. It was so automated that he didn't even know he did it. I recognized that I no longer felt welcome in his heart of hearts so I was trying to find my way back and he was panicking because he had triggered and was treating me like I was going to reject him any minute which was in turn putting distance between us.

The only reason I'm sharing this is because it's possible to both have the best intentions and still be missing each other's hearts. And sex that isn't just obligatory means you HAVE to have a heart connection with your wife. And that's what you want, right? Her to want you? Emotionally as well as physically.


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> This is one of those threads where I would love to hear from the other spouse.


Exactly, we would probably hear from his wife that he she does all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry and child care including taking care of his two children from a prior marriage. He doesn't spend any fun time with her, isn't romantic and pouts and disconnects from her if she declines his advances. He flirts with other women. We are just hearing his side of view and of course all of the men here are feeling so sorry for him while the women are all thinking what isn't he doing that is the real reason she doesn't want sex since he sounds like a pretty good guy.

You have already made one mistake by getting a divorce from your first wife don't put your children through another divorce (yes another divorce will affect your older children too) Work on being more attractive (not in the physical sense) to her instead of to other women. Foreplay starts early in the morning with helping her with with everything I mentioned above, kisses and hugs, telling her how you love and appreciate her etc.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@happilymarried lol "feeling sorry. For him" that's not how it works for a lot of us men. In fact it's the opposite - I have no "feeling" at all for the OP in many of my posts - instead they are analytical in nature. Since we are analyzing a problem, and the problem is stated from a mans perspective,the suggestions tend to be for the specific narrow problem. 

That sort of compartmentalization during problem solving is typical for men, but can be misconstrued by more emotive people (often women) who assume the solutions are also meant to address other issues, like those the W might have. 

Instead we would tend to separately address those issues. So the solutions may sound cold and clinical, but they aren't intended to convey the interpersonal component - that's a separate problem. In other words - here is the list you should present - how you present it is a deparate issue.

Very common communication difference IMO


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

BTW I agree OP is probably not meeting all her needs but she is a therapist so should be able to respond with this when he takes the time to let her know the gravity of the situation. I think there has to be a "come to Jesus" moment for both of them, and both will have to make big changes to figure out how to reestablish proper boundaries, communication, empathy, nurturing, cooperation, compromise, etc. 

And I agree - making ultimatums, acting passive aggressive, issuing covert contracts, pulling away emotionally, and doing anything less than going "all in" is a big mistake.

Again - I am hoping W's background can help surface and guide this process and these issues once her attention is focused on HER marriage.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

If your wife is as smart, educated and professional as she sounds why not try a different approach.

You said she is a therapist.

Call her secretary and make an appt. Use a different name if you feel you have to.

Show up for the appt. Sit on her couch and discuss your marital/sexual issues with the therapist (her).

Then ask for her professional recommendations on how to solve those needs together.

What have you got to lose.

And oh by the way, I have known my wife for 30 years. Been married for 23 years.

Never have received a BJ. She will not do it. Started one on our honeymoon and almost threw up on me.

I continue to ask a few times a week to no avail. I am over it.

She is a missionairy woman and when I push for something different I have to power through it. She thinks I am crazy in bed but so be it.

We are Catholic. Both have had catholic educations from elementary school through college.

She is a prude and a virgin until marriage. We dated for6 years before we married.

I was high strung and sexually demanding. She has always met those needs in a very missionairy way.

Here is what I have learned over these 30 years.

I love my wife and my wife loves me. She is a great mother and runs our family. We both have full time jobs and our 3 daughters keep us busy.

Romantic time is almost zero.

In fact when we took our oldest D to college we were in the hotel room and I laughed out loud. She asked me what was funny. I said the last time her and I were alone in a hotel room was on our honeymoon. She looked at me with a crazy look then realized I was right.

My point is you have only been married for 4 years. yet you both are professionals with a full load and kids to boot. Not all kids are hers by the way.

Talk to her on a professional level and make it clear how frustrated you are. Also include that you are starting to look at her differently. As the mother of your children, not as your wife or sole sexual partner....

I would not trade my wife in for the last Powerball. I do not think you have a valid reason to do so at this time in your marriage.

Figure it out my man. Love before Sex.

Try it. 

And maybe your wife can give one morning at the gym to spend with you in the sack????

HM


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

What's the status present?


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Your reaction to his needs is irrelevant. Frankly even if it's completely unromantic and one sided that's fine. HIS needs. She can articulate her own. Remember this is D worthy stuff


Then he may have to prepare for divorce and search for a woman who is willing to prove herself sexually to him just because he wants it. What man would not want that kind of woman, she would be in high demand. He'll need to bring his A+++ game and do some proving himself. Lets hope he makes the cut and that his performance is outstanding.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @happilymarried lol "feeling sorry. For him" that's not how it works for a lot of us men. In fact it's the opposite - I have no "feeling" at all for the OP in many of my posts - instead they are analytical in nature. Since we are analyzing a problem, and the problem is stated from a mans perspective,the suggestions tend to be for the specific narrow problem.
> 
> That sort of compartmentalization during problem solving is typical for men, but can be misconstrued by more emotive people (often women) who assume the solutions are also meant to address other issues, like those the W might have.
> 
> ...


Ummm your analysis sounds good but, as often happens, it's based on bad data. Emotions and relationships are complex and solutions don't yield to black and white machine like or silo solutions. 

You are right about the general difference in the approach to problem solving between men and woman. In this case, a fully integrated approach has the best chance of success. Since he is not having a relationship with himself, his needs must be integrated with one other person, his wife. 

She brings her needs with her. Already the level of complexity has increased several fold. Many men think they can address sex as a separate issue, but that's not how it works.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Catherine602 sorry you're wrong


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Catherine602 sorry you're wrong


----------



## person123 (Jan 12, 2016)

Step 1: read this: 

Why nice guys SUCK

This is a long rant, so bear with me or hit your back button. I'm frustrated and in no mood for your **** either, so if you don't want to read it, well...

So I'm dating a nice guy now and it SUCKS. No other way to explain it, it just SUCKS. He's no challenge. He agrees with everything I say. He's got it all though * a decent job, a nice house, no kids, no psycho ex*wives, and he's tall and cute. Anyone ever seen that Friends episode when Alec Baldwin played Phoebe's boyfriend?? YEAH, my boyfriend is THAT nice. He's just too ****ing nice. Nice is boring. I've never heard him raise his voice. He's never aggressive. He has no edge. He won't even drive over the speed limit and that ****ing annoys the **** out of me, yet I sit in the passenger seat and keep my mouth shut... watching everyone whiz by us.

And don't get me started on the sex. Oh, excuse me... making love. After he cums (note I didn't mention anything about ME cumming), he rolls over and says "Oh, that was nice" with a little sigh. I KID YOU NOT, he says it EVERY TIME and then he sighs like he has just woken from a refreshing nap. I finally got so tired of missionary and him looking lovingly into my eyes and smiling as he came, that I threw him down on the couch one night and mounted him. At first he was terrified * yes, TERRIFIED. He thought something had possessed me. And it HAD ** it was sheer MADNESS. I ****ed the **** out of him that night. And then he sighed and said "Oh, that was nice".

Now that we had the cowgirl position conquered (always with that sigh afterwards), it was time to move on to doggie. His ex*girlfriend never did doggie (hmmm... maybe there's a "nice" ex*girlfriend to blame for his timid niceness?? That *****...). Anyway, I digress. I tell him I want him to **** me from behind. Yes, I used the word "****" and I didn't care what he thought about it. He gets behind me and enters me, and damned if he didn't say "OH, THIS IS NICE" !!! Are there any 35 y/o men out there that haven't smacked a woman's ass when doing her doggie?? YES, and he's my boyfriend!

Tonight during sex, I think I'm gonna tell him to stick his finger in my ass when I'm riding him. THAT should be interesting.

So for the nice guys out there, my advice is this: It's great that you're nice (to an extent), but have some backbone. Don't be a spine donor all your life. When your girl is out of line, say something. Don't let her walk all over you. Occasionally, be a "bad" boy (being bad doesn't translate to abusive or criminal). Say "No" to her sometimes. Raise your voice and be heard. Say something dirty/sexy to her occasionally. Drink a few too many beers and piss out in public. Smack her ass. Don't ever use the word NICE to describe things, especially sex (okay, that may be a personal pet peeve). Have an interest in at LEAST one sport (or pretend to). Drive 5*10 miles over the speed limit once in awhile. Run an old lady off the road just for kicks (yeah, I'm kidding about this one... just ride her bumper for a few miles). Be aggressive during sex. Take off those damn white socks and Jesus sandals. Grow a goatee for a few weeks. Shave your balls. Stray from your routine and shake things up.

BE A MAN FOR GOD'S SAKE... and the women will fall at your feet.

Source: best of craigslist: Why nice guys SUCK

Step 2: Read this: Robot Check

Step 3, I would prescribe... the red pill... specifically, the married variety... https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

person123 said:


> Step 1: read this:
> 
> Why nice guys SUCK
> 
> ...


I suspect this was written by a guy redpiller. Not to thread jack but --

This is all on you, your not married to him why are you dating him. Move on. Some girls want a pushover you don't. You are just a nice girl. The female version of the same coin. I would never date a woman with your attitude. If the sex is bad tell him, you don't have to be a d_ck about it, but give the man some direction. If he is just selfish then move on. Life is too short. Don't blame this guy for you choice to be with him. If you are going to be with him accept him for what he is. You are just as passive in your own life as he is. You are with him because your passiveness attracts that kind of man. You settled, then you get mad at him because you did. 

Nice guy just means passive. I agree passive guys suck but only because people bully them. If they were just a little more assertive they would have better lives. They never learned to stand up to the bully. The woman who take advantage and bully these men Suck much worse. They are just emotional users, they lack the confidence of being alone an waiting until a guy who is not passive comes alone. Same type of person just different gender. 

Part of the problem for these types of woman is that a guy who is emotionally mature and assertive, is going to see right through a woman who would date a nice guy only to bully him. The strong guy is not going to want to be with a girl like that because he knows he can't trust her. She has no empathy, and every relationship is basically what is in it for me, why else would she stay with someone she doesn't respect. Nope, he wants a woman that has something to offer, just like she does. He wants a woman who is willing to wait until he shows up. He wants a woman that is confident, just like she does. All of this is because he instinctively knows that a confident woman makes a good partner. Again a woman who would stay in a relationship like you described displays a distinct lack of confidence. 

Redpill is stupid and it basically just proves the point in the last paragraph. If I have to emotionally manipulate a woman to get her interested in me she is not worth my time. I am (or was when I was single) emotionally strong enough to not give a sh_t if she is not interested I will just move on to the next one. I want a person who is authentic like I am. I don't want a woman that wants me to challenge her. I want a partner who is will to work with me. Life is an adventure and we are like batman and robin. Not batman and riddler. 

Redpill is for week men who basically become actors to get attention. I call them jesters. Following some system to create insecurity in women doesn't make a man strong, it makes him even weaker then the passive guys you can't stand. At least the passive guys follow there own nature and are authentic. My wife knows that I honor respect and cherish her. She knows I try very had to protect her emotionally and physically. I am strong enough to lay down my life for her. That doesn't make me a pushover though. It makes me a leader. She also knows if she were ever to cheat on me I would be gone so fast it would erase the memory of me. I was more then fine being alone before I met her and I can be alone again. It would hurt terribly but I would not consider it a reflection on my self worth. I get my self worth from my own character. Besides that I married her because I wanted to do for her I wanted to give my life to her, no for anything she did for me. 

Nope all of your complaints about your boyfriend are on you. You are not entitled to anything in this life. If you don't like him move on. But you better learn what true strength is and it's not lifting and holding frame, it's character.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You must be really bored to be digging up old threads. Your words of wisdom are falling on non-existent ears.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Well first off she is telling you she is tired. Believe her. Do you help around the house? Do you take the kids when you get home and give her some time to recover? Assuming you do all that, then. 

Bottom line you are trying to nice her into bed with you, it won't work. You need to seduce your wife emotionally. For lots of woman it isn't about touching them at first, it's about the idea that you cherish them, that you take the time to try and understand what they are going through. She is busting her ass off raising your kids, she birthed your kids. That is just one thing. Write a long note saying thank you. "I always wanted a kid thanks for using your body to make that dream come true". Also you need to impress on her you have an intense desire to touch her, but not begging, lusting. "You are my girl and you are the hottest woman in the world". If you can get the breakthrough this can become more intense as you go on. 

I know I am going to get some scoffing but listen to some Barry White, I am not joking. There is a reason why a sweaty 500 pound man had thousands of woman throwing panties on stage, it wasn't for his looks. Listen to how he talks to the women in the songs. How tender he is but how assertive he is when he tells her just what he wants her to do, but also why, what she means to him as far as his love for her, what is the emotional meaning behind his desire for sex is. His songs are not really graphic, they are mostly about how much he loves her and because of that he wants to have sex with her, but 90% of the song is "I you have no idea how much I am in love with you". Barry White man, I'm telling you. The guy knew. 

If it was me, I would call your mother in law, and you mother and schedule at least 10 consecutive days without the kids. I would let your wife know when the time off will be then the month leading up to that I would spend everyday doing something small that was romantic basically saying, you are hot, you are dear to me, you are desired and you are mine. Then spend those 10 days dating her like she is 25 and in her prime. Take her out like she is the prom queen. You need to Take control jump start you romantic and sexual life. If you do all that and she is still not sexually responsive then she has some kind of mental block. And she need to work on that. But at least you tried. You went down fighting.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> You must be really bored to be digging up old threads. Your words of wisdom are falling on non-existent ears.


Ha ha you're right. Well maybe someone will read it and it will help someone. Sounded good in my own mind anyway.


----------



## Piper502 (Jun 2, 2016)

present 82 said:


> I like your book advice. And I absolutely love to seduce, she just is unresponsive to things like that. I love to grab her behind and tell her how much I want her - she looks at me and laughs and says " haha oh yeah".
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure there would be a thousand women who would embrace that. Just not my wife. Even talking about sex, in any capacity, seems to make her turned off. I feel like such a perv (i'm not) which feels horrible.




It's almost as if your wife and my husband are from the same mold. I wish I had an answer to your problem. I'm struggling with the exact same thing. Just want you to know you are not alone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

present 82 said:


> Her response is standard: too tired, too busy, kids, not feeling well....
> 
> 
> Is this what I signed up for? To be made into a tennis shoe wearing, under sexed man with three kids and a wife who I will likely begin to despise intimately?


Any excuse will do when you really don't care about the other person.

Yes. yes it is sorry. Start reading around, you did your donor thing, she got the support for her children. what is it you think you want ? she got what she wanted so why should she try now. 

BTW, it's all your fault. Just in case you were wondering.

What you need to do is become a more social active person in your own life (without her) and do social stuff with the kids. Maybe you'll become socially relevant again and thus be a "fun person" who gets noticed (office doesn't count because she can't see you there, and work/office is your space, not "public", unless your CEO/owner and the place is newsworthy.


----------



## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

When the kids are really young sex will wane, very few people have a lot of sex with infants and toddlers running around, they're too draining, and too exhausting they consume all your time.

Take your wife away for a weekend getaway, if it doesn't turn into a 48 hour f&^k-a-thon then you have a problem and she may not be attracted to you sexually anymore, or may be really building up some hidden resentment towards you. If while away from the kids and getting taken to dinner and club/concert/whatever doesn't turn back the clock and have her begging for a proper ram-rodding, then you likely have a major problem on your hand. Your wife is a sexual being, and if she's not interested with you, it's only a matter of time before someone else wakes that up in her.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

The undead thread.

Fine - I'll bite and respond for OP.

"IDK - I'm pretty good looking and I've got great abs and a strong back - I don't know why she doesn't want to sink her nails into my back. I plan on flexing a bit after dinner and if she can't pick up the ball, drop to her knees... well then I guess I have to go for a D. She must just be a lesbian if she can't interpret these obvious signals that our marriage is on the rocks."


----------

