# Freedom (non-sexual) in marriages



## HealthyLove (Jan 27, 2015)

Brief background of my situation. My husband and I have been married for 13 years with a 7 year old child, both of us from unhealthy and traumatic families/past. We've both seen therapists together and separately on and off throughout the 13 years.

We returned to marriage counseling exactly a year ago this month and then upon my husband's need for separation decided to do a structured separation to see what would be the best outcome for us, either divorce or reconciliation. As of October my husband signed a 1 year lease for an apartment. We have both continued MC as well as individual therapy during this time. Recently we have both felt that reconciliation is what we would both like. 

Last night we discussed what we would like out of a relationship and my husband's biggest issue is that he likes the freedom to "do what he wants when he wants" and doesn't have to be "accountable" to me or anyone else about him time. We both agree that a healthy marriage needs to be 2 independent people who can share their lives but he stated last night he felt the emphasis should be on the separate part.

As it stands right now he has our son Sunday-Tuesday evening and then brings him back to the house to sleep Tuesday by 7pm. So ultimately he has Tuesday-Saturday and every other Friday to himself and can "come and go" as he wishes and says that he feels if that changes then he is "losing his freedom"

This is where I ask what is freedom in a marriage to you? Is that much time separate and not sharing your life actually a relationship? Is it hindering someone's freedom to want them to call you when they leave work (we both have FT jobs) and let you know if they are going out 3-4 nights a week? I do trust that he isn't/won't be with anyone else sexually but is it overstepping a boundary if I ask him where he is going or what he is doing? It almost feels like in that scenario the people or things (ex. hobbies, sports etc) that he is spending that time with and doesn't want to include me or even divulge what he's doing is more of what he has a relationship with.

I am just grappling with what "freedom" is in a marriage or any relationship for that matter while respecting the other person. Thank you all in advance for your responses.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

The only person who can answer your question is your husband. What does "freedom" mean to him, and why does he feel he didn't have it in your marriage? 

Personally, I think he sounds immature and self-entered... But what do I know?. 

C


----------



## HealthyLove (Jan 27, 2015)

PBear said:


> The only person who can answer your question is your husband. What does "freedom" mean to him, and why does he feel he didn't have it in your marriage?
> 
> Personally, I think he sounds immature and self-entered... But what do I know?.
> 
> C


Thank you PBear, 
I do agree he is the only person who can answer what freedom is and why he didn't have it in our marriage.

I guess at this point I am on a fact finding mission trying to see what that balance is in other relationships. 
Thank you!


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

HealthyLove said:


> This is where I ask what is freedom in a marriage to you?



Being trusted to make my own decisions. That's freedom for me.

Which means that if I want to go hang out with friends, or have time alone, there are no tantrums, manipulations, nagging or ultimatums. I'm a grown up, not a child, and I expect to be treated and respected as such.

It also means that when I want to spend dedicated time with my wife, it's just that; because I genuinely want to. I see no point in being "forced" to spend couple time if you'd rather be elsewhere.

We have a lot of freedom in our marriage. But that doesn't mean we don't spend the majority of our time together. However it does mean we're free to do, and enjoy, our time in whatever ways we want, whether together or apart.

Every time we're together it should be because both of us want to be there, not because we're "suppose" to be thanks to vows and a marriage license.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Sounds more like a friendship than a marriage.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

If that degree of "freedom" is something that you are both on-board with, then it's perfectly fine to have in your marriage. The two of you together get to decide what your marriage looks like. But you both need to be on the same page. 

Personally, what your husband is proposing wouldn't work for me. At _all_.


----------



## HealthyLove (Jan 27, 2015)

jaquen said:


> Being trusted to make my own decisions. That's freedom for me.
> 
> Which means that if I want to go hang out with friends, or have time alone, there are no tantrums, manipulations, nagging or ultimatums. I'm a grown up, not a child, and I expect to be treated and respected as such.


Thank you so much for your answer. I agree completely with the idea that nagging or tantrums ect are completely counter productive for any marriage and the people should want to be spending time with each other rather than feeling it's REQUIRED. 

I guess where I am unsure in this situation: is it treading on one's freedom for them to share information/logistical things with you such as "Hey I won't be home until late tonight because I'm going to have drinks after work" and that also is it leaving one person to be the primary caretake of the child if the other one isn't present/participating.


----------



## HealthyLove (Jan 27, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Sounds more like a friendship than a marriage.


That was my initial feeling as well. After tearing our marriage down to the studs and working back up I am trying to see things differently and am thankful for other's point of view.


----------



## HealthyLove (Jan 27, 2015)

Rowan said:


> If that degree of "freedom" is something that you are both on-board with, then it's perfectly fine to have in your marriage. The two of you together get to decide what your marriage looks like. But you both need to be on the same page.
> 
> Personally, what your husband is proposing wouldn't work for me. At _all_.


I think that is my problem is I don't feel totally on-board with this. I feel personal time in a marriage is so important for self-care and happiness but I don't know to what extent it begins to feel excessive.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

HealthyLove said:


> I guess where I am unsure in this situation: is it treading on one's freedom for them to share information/logistical things with you such as "Hey I won't be home until late tonight because I'm going to have drinks after work"


That's just basic, common courtesy. My wife is free to hang out as long as she wants, but I need to be aware of where she is. I'll admit it took me a couple years to really get into that habit, and still sometimes I fail; I'm just not use to giving account of my time. But I've gotten better at it because I know I worry if I don't know where she is, and she feels likewise the same. It's NOT OK to just drop off the grid and not let your spouse know where you are, especially during late night hours.



HealthyLove said:


> and that also is it leaving one person to be the primary caretake of the child if the other one isn't present/participating.


I think a situation changes 100% when a child(ren) is involved. It's one thing if this is an occasional situation, but if it's typical, and you two didn't agree together that this is how the duties would fall? Unacceptable.

To be honest, based off what you wrote in your OP only, it doesn't sound like your husband wants to be married anymore. It sounds like he might want to reconcile because he's not ready to let you go, but it seems like he'd love to be able to just date you and see you whenever he wants to, with no obligations to actually share a consistent, regular life with you.


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

I'm with jaquen. It is common curtesy to let your spouse know when and where you are. A marriage is a partnership for the common good of the couple. Each spouses needs need to be taken into account. We have activities and responsibilities. The responsibilities of the household need to be coordinated in a satisfactory way for Both partners. Kids complicate the balance. Kid activities and schedules often change and require instant parental adjustment. 

The adjustments can be made much more easily if everyone knows everyone's schedule, including the kids schedules. A spouse or parent who frequently does not meet expected return times and drops off the grid is not able to meet the responsibility to the family very well. A spouse that does not meet the responsibilities of the family ultimately causes resentment in other members of the family.

This doesn't mean that my wife, kids or myself can't drop off the grid from time to time. It just means that we we do our responsibilities have been covered or completed before we go. In addition the duration of being off the grid is known to all as is the location. This knowledge can then be used to address issues that may arise while someone is out. Events can be reorganized since the info is known to all. 

In my marriage many things have been rearranged impromptu to everyone's satisfaction because we all have the knowledge and power to make decisions in someone's absence to a certain extent. We teach this to our kids. It's not controlling because we usually don't restrict what they do as long as its safe, marriage or family froendly and their chores, schoolwork and other responsibilities are met.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I think most people would not be comfortable with having their husband or wife act like he was just a roommate, coming and going as he pleases and never letting you know where he is. But more importantly, YOU are not comfortable with it (otherwise why would you have started this thread?) A marriage is a partnership between two people. It requires compromise. 

In my opinion, "freedom" is a misnomer here. If he doesn't want to have to account to anyone for where he is, he has "freedom" to leave the marriage. But while he is married to you, you have a right to have expectations, needs, wants, etc. You can't have a healthy marriage if you can't raise to him the fact that you feel a need to at least know whether to expect him home or not. 

I think he has to feel like something is at stake here. Right now he has this perfect arrangement where he's "married" but nothing is expected of him and he can live like a bachelor half the week or more. If asking more of him makes him feel like he lacks "freedom" then maybe it's time for him to decide whether he really wants marriage or not. And you have to be prepared to risk losing him if you want anything to change.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I agree with the poster who said it seems that your husband doesn't want to be married anymore...

I don't get what's so suffocating about marriage...but maybe I'm just weird, lol.


----------



## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

Freedom is communication.

I do what I want but always run it by my SO to make sure that there are no conflicts or issues and he does the same. That is respect.
Freedom in a marriage is doing that.
If the other person is not wanting to do that then they do not want to be married.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I think your idea he is going to be faithful is patently absurd. Going out without your spouse is a formula for disaster. If my wife told me something like this I would divorce her on the spot, never consider reconciliation and start looking for a real person to love me instead of use me.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I have to say that I agree with Chaparral on the fidelity thing. It would seem that he wants to be married part of the time and single the rest of the time. It's foolish to think that anyone who behaves as if they're single, except when they're in your presence, is going to remain faithful. Married people who intend to be faithful don't have parallel lives as a singleton 3-4 nights a week.


----------



## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

I agree with the others that I would never be ok with what you are describing, especially in a marriage with children. The freedom to do whatever one wants without consulting anyone does not belong in marriage. That is what a single person does. 

Married people are interdependent, meaning that everything you or don't do effects your spouse and children. It's common courtesy to let each other know your whereabouts and schedules. 

I recommend the book _His Needs, Her Needs_, by Dr. Harley.


----------



## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Freedom to buy what he likes at the grocery store, yes.

Freedom to go out half the week, forgoing time with his wife and child, no.

Is he willing to find things you like to do as a couple that are new and exciting? How about quality family time letting your son choose? How will he fit that in with "his" time 3-4 times A WEEK? 

This won't end well. If he is balking about having your son the little time he has now, he is too immature to be married, or he is on the prowl.


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm sorry, but your H is living in an apartment, away from you. He has your son part time. You honestly think he isn't currently sleeping with someone else or isn't at least trying to?

Why can't he live in the same house as you and still go out with his friends? 

I wouldn't stand for any of that, but it's just me. If my H were to walk out, rent an apartment, and still try to keep me on the line - I would have a few choice words to say to him when I handed him divorce papers. I can put up with a lot, but I wouldn't be able to do this. 

Your H needs to decide if he wants to be married or not. If he does, he needs to move back in and try to work on the marriage. 

If you aren't okay with this, tell him. Tell him you're done playing games. This is childish. 

Freedom? Come on. He's married and has a kid. Grow up. It's not that hard to say, 'Hey wife, I am going out with some friends tonight - I'll be at such and such place. Text you when I am on my way home, love you -BYE!" 

That's common courtesy in case something happens to him...you never know what could happen and it's important to be able to give information to authorities if need be. 

He didn't need to move out of the house to do that. He moved out so he could bring people back to his apartment...and I'm not talking about his guy friends.


----------

