# I lost that lovin' feelin.



## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

A few weeks ago, Mr. and I got in a huge fight and I asked him to move out. He flat out refused. 

Since then, I've seen a doctor and gotten on some anti-depressants (which I didn't know I needed) and am seeing a counselor because I feel like this relationship is dysfunctional. 

Meanwhile, Mr. still lives in the house and parades around like NOTHING HAPPENED. He figures everything just blew over and all is well now. I guess he thinks that if HE is happy, then I must be happy. 

Since that fight a few weeks back, I see Mr. for what he really is. All these little things that I was so foggy about are becoming clear to me. Essentially, he is a 13 year old boy in a 33 year old body. He's insecure and egotistical. He wants to be treated like a man but doesn't want to do what it takes to BE a man. He's self-centered to the point that I can't even talk about my day. I have to listen about his, though. However, he is funny and charming and smart and handsome. 

I don't know what else to do or try. I want to talk to him about this stuff, but I have no success every time I try to bring it up. 

It's getting harder and harder to pretend that I have feelings for him. I don't know whether to end the charade by trying to re-kindle something or by moving out. 

Actually, I've been browsing for something for rent in my area but haven't found anything suitable. My resolve is waning and I have given in to the fact that he won't move out. Since we still live together, I've tried to ... like him again ... I guess, but I'm just not getting anywhere. 

Anybody have any suggestions?


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

He doesn't care because he thinks hes got you right where he wants you. You need to make him realize that he is not you personal god. How do you do that? Make him think you've found someone else. Don't hang out there, dress sexy and go out a lot and don't tell him with who or why. Your just tired of his BS and its worn you down to the breaking point where your mind says the problems are greater than the love you feel for him. Don't do anything he says and take away his power over you. Make him feel jealous and that he has no control over you, and if he still doesn't care he's probably an A hole or seeing someone else anyway so move on. Don't have any sexual relations with him at all. Simply put take away all of his power and sense of security. I was like this once and if my wife would have done this I would have changed faster than I did. When he is nice and sincere reciprocate equally, its kind of like training a dog.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

I think that would be playing with fire!

Jealousy isn't something to play with especially if he could react badly (there was nothing in the OP that suggested he would, but he refused to move out when asked). 

Besides, how would she prove she wasn't when his trust has been broken like that? Think about it - she pretends to, then says she isn't. One of those statements/actions must be a lie. Not a good place to go.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

goatz said:


> He doesn't care because he thinks hes got you right where he wants you. You need to make him realize that he is not you personal god. How do you do that? Make him think you've found someone else. Don't hang out there, dress sexy and go out a lot and don't tell him with who or why. Your just tired of his BS and its worn you down to the breaking point where your mind says the problems are greater than the love you feel for him. Don't do anything he says and take away his power over you. Make him feel jealous and that he has no control over you, and if he still doesn't care he's probably an A hole or seeing someone else anyway so move on. Don't have any sexual relations with him at all. Simply put take away all of his power and sense of security. I was like this once and if my wife would have done this I would have changed faster than I did. When he is nice and sincere reciprocate equally, its kind of like training a dog.


wow...
not my style and sounds very cruel, with little point of winning anything.

back on topic...
what did you see in him to begin with?
He could not all of a sudden changed so drastically ! Did you not notice he was egotisical and immature until now?
or is this all over a few issues that cannot be resolved?


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Forgot to mention always have an alibi like a mutual friend. I only offer manipulation because that's what I'm good at, its faster, more guaranteed, and more reliable than months or years of therapy. The manipulation I offer is more for self reflection for the other person.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Goatz -- so...what? That makes you a player? With people's minds? Not what I'd want to be known for...


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

dcrim said:


> Goatz -- so...what? That makes you a player? With people's minds? Not what I'd want to be known for...


Hey it ain't illegal unless you get caught. Right?

Even though you may not see it, the way I manipulate people is to force self reflection. I create a setting to induce empathy, and therefor self reflection. It may seem superficial but if you read into it you will see. I can't put up with years of counseling, fighting, and heart ache. I get to the root of the problem then generate a setting for self reflection for the one issue through manipulation. The outcome is normally beneficial, and if it makes everyone happy who cares. We need less science and more common sense. Believe it or not I have taken complete strangers (usually men) who are having marital problems and in 20 min made them realize its their fault, then they fix it. Not seek counseling which costs more money and creates more stress, or waiting years for the problems to "fix themselves". I am a realist, up front, and brutally honest. Bleeding hearts are great for support if that's whats needed because there is no fix, fine that's not me and I'll stay out of it. My wife went from no sense at all to self aware through lots of self reflection about her actions and the way they effect others; after a while I didn't have to force it. Now she does it on her own and very rarely makes mistakes especially socially. I think she is brilliant.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Trust me, dude...I can manipulate people, too! 

I choose NOT to do that! 

I've been a sysadmin for many computer systems and I got to see SOOOOO much "inappropriate" contact. It's not my job to police users. 

I know how things work and being manipulative is NOT the way to deal with people. 

Getting to the "root of the problem" takes dialog. Conversation. If that's not happening, then nothing else matters! 

Deception will not lead to a better place for alcon.

Anent my sig..it's meant to be thought provoking. Not how I live.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Maybe its just the way I do it? I am not mean. I don't do it to make people do what I want them to, I do it so they see whats right. He just needs to get off of his high horse and making him feel inferior is the fastest way to open a dialog. People are less complex than the sciences that study them. There is beauty in simplicity. It doesn't have to be some long drawn out solution. Sometimes its best if people see who they really are.

If you think about it, it isn't any different than the show Intervention. They manipulate them into a dialog, then manipulate them into self reflection, then the person sees what they have become and chooses to change for the better, and after its done they have better relationships etc. They know that that person is unwilling to change and they hurt the ones they love. You can say well they have an addiction. True, but being a **** hurts too and can be just as difficult to open a dialog with that type of person.

Usually only the person who's problem it is can fix it. You can help them be a better person. You can't just say "well if your not going to talk to me I give up". People usually have to be coaxed into a situation where they can fix their problems, because you cannot fix their problems for them.

But you do what works for you and I'll do what works for me but I still think your missing what I am saying. Your only seeing how I get there not why.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Goatz, well I do laud your motives. Just don't think your methods are the right way. 

But if you've found them to work well and consistantly in your life, then by all means continue.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

dcrim said:


> Goatz, well I do laud your motives. Just don't think your methods are the right way.
> 
> But if you've found them to work well and consistantly in your life, then by all means continue.


I appreciate your understanding.


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

goatz said:


> Make him think you've found someone else. Don't hang out there, dress sexy and go out a lot and don't tell him with who or why.... Make him feel jealous and that he has no control over you, ....Don't have any sexual relations with him at all... its kind of like training a dog.


How do you spell G-A-M-E-S? 

Nothing like a relationship built on manipulations.....


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

easysilence said:


> Since then, I've seen a doctor and gotten on some anti-depressants (which I didn't know I needed) and am seeing a counselor because I feel like this relationship is dysfunctional.
> 
> Anybody have any suggestions?


While there is a time and place for anti-depressants, using them to avoid facing the task of ridding your life of a dysfunctional relationship, IMHO, is nothing but putting off the inevitable.

My dh had me thinking I was off my rocker...until I had a really good therapist tell me "Did you ever think it isn't *YOU* who has issues....???". Talk about a light bulb moment! :rofl:

Sometimes you just can't FIT a square peg into a round hole. 

Urrr...wow that really could be taken wrong! :rofl::rofl:


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

Earthmother1970 said:


> Perhaps Goatz is trying to get our goat....?


:iagree::rofl:


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Sandy! Square peg? A round hole? WOW!  Sounds like fun.  

Has anyone else noticed that the OP hasn't responded to this thread? Even though he/she/it has 20 some posts?


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm not going to keep posting to a board like this so I'm moving it to

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ulation-its-not-what-you-think.html#post72636

I don't think it's right to post this here since this person is trying to get something resolved.


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## humangirl (Jul 16, 2009)

Give him a taste of his own medicine.  Talk about yourself, ignore him when he talks about himself. Go out with friends, family etc (let him know your going, but don't invite him). Be just like him & if he cares he'll ask whats up, then you can say you were just treating him the way he treats you. Maybe he just needs a little shake up to open his eyes and realize he's got someone great.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

goatz said:


> I'm not going to keep posting to a board like this so I'm moving it to
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ulation-its-not-what-you-think.html#post72636
> 
> I don't think it's right to post this here since this person is trying to get something resolved.



The problem with spending all this time and energy consumed in controlling others is that your going to end up with a bunch of sheep people around you. Maybe good for people like Charles Manson, but if your a average person and not psychotic, wanting to live a normal life, your just wasting your time.
It would be better spent learning to control yourself and your reactions as in life, its not what happens, its how you react to it.


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## Heidiw (Jul 2, 2009)

Wow Goatz sounds like my husband.:rofl: He likes to play mind games too. He uses people to get what he wants & doesn't care who it hurts in the process. The thing is that I've seen him do this for so long that I know how to do it too. The difference between him & I ? I don't do it!! I would rather divorce him then let him think he can play games with me or our daughter.

Secondly I keep things real too but I don't need to hurt others to get my point across.

You do what you think you need to do in life just not my style.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow you guys are totally missing it. You hear the word manipulation and you automatically tag me as controlling, dominating, and an all around *******. Creating an atmosphere to trigger self reflection is good, playing mind games for selfish reasons is not. I quit being that person long ago. Sometimes pain is the best medicine as long as you know how to prescribe it. It's called empathy and most people don't have it, sometimes people need a dose of it to see how their hurting others. Maybe my wife can explain it in more feminine terms, and no she is not a sheep or slave or brainwashed. She is her own person so please respect that if you comment back to her.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

You need to take control. Not manipulation (good, bad or other) you need DIRECT and OBVIOUS control...

He is an egotistical immature man. And you have threatened him and not followed through. How many times have you heard the phrase "Don't threaten something you aren't willing to follow through on" when talking about disciplining children... 

Same applies here. You've made threats, and have followed through on nothing. He thinks you're all talk and no action, and it not only won't change him, it only re-enforces his already inflated ego. He has things the way he wants them, and now he knows that even if you threaten him, he won't give in or even listen because you won't take any action.

So you need to kick his butt out, or leave yourself. It doesn't have to be permanent, but you need to make a statement that you ARE willing to follow through. This is the only way he will see the error in his ways. If he loves you, he will try to make it work. If he doesn't, you will know soon enough.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

GPR said:


> You need to take control. Not manipulation (good, bad or other) you need DIRECT and OBVIOUS control...
> 
> So you need to kick his butt out, or leave yourself. It doesn't have to be permanent, but you need to make a statement that you ARE willing to follow through. This is the only way he will see the error in his ways. If he loves you, he will try to make it work. If he doesn't, you will know soon enough.


That statement she is making sounds an awful lot like manipulation. Seeing the errors in his ways sounds a lot like the self reflection I have been talking about. This is the type of manipulation I have been talking about. 

Manipulation into self reflection, empathy follows!

I he lets her follow through with it, he is not worth being with. If he is not going to make the sacrifices to ensure the continuity of their relationship, she should move on.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Now hold on guys - EVERY man is egotistical and insecure. Some more than others. We like a man to be egotistical because that makes them bold. In life, in business and in bed. Viva Egos! 

Insecure is ok too - it keeps them a little humble. And helps the woman be the one to prop up those ego's  Viva insecurity! 

"I've lost that lovin feeling" seems about right. It's not something in him that changed, it's YOU. 

He used to be charming - now he's egotisical
He used to be boyish - now he's immature
He used to be outgoing - now he's self absorbed

Same thing - just different way you have of looking at it. Perhaps a closer look at you might help?


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

goatz said:


> That statement she is making sounds an awful lot like manipulation. Seeing the errors in his ways sounds a lot like the self reflection I have been talking about. This is the type of manipulation I have been talking about.
> 
> Manipulation into self reflection, empathy follows!
> 
> I he lets her follow through with it, he is not worth being with. If he is not going to make the sacrifices to ensure the continuity of their relationship, she should move on.



Call it what you will. All I'm saying is to not play the games like getting all dressed up to make him think she's going to see someone else or anything like that. 

Part of the solution is that she needs to SHOW control. He needs to see it, direct and in his face. Not act a certain way and hope he interprets it the way you want him to. 

I'm saying come right out and say, "You're out of here, don't come back until you are ready to change...." Say and do exactly what you mean to do.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

GPR said:


> Call it what you will. All I'm saying is to not play the games like getting all dressed up to make him think she's going to see someone else or anything like that.
> 
> Part of the solution is that she needs to SHOW control. He needs to see it, direct and in his face. Not act a certain way and hope he interprets it the way you want him to.
> 
> I'm saying come right out and say, "You're out of here, don't come back until you are ready to change...." Say and do exactly what you mean to do.


My way was the extreme but yours will work also. It may not last as long though.


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## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

Hi everyone, thanks for your posts. I have been away that's why I haven't been on here. 
I would never manipulate by dressing up and pretending to cheat. That's just not something I would even consider. I wouldn't want someone to do that to me. 
I guess I just need to figure this out on my own. I really want a separation about 50% of the time. The other half of the time, I want to work all this out. 
The main problem, I think, is that when I try to bring things up to talk about, he gets defensive and it never goes well. I don't know how to talk to him so he'll listen.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Letting the guy know he is NOT the center of her universe is o.k., as long as SHE realizes it, too. Having a life and being happy alone are so important within a relationship. Any time someone has "too much" power in the relationship, both people are responsible--one for giving it, one for taking it. 

A woman with strong self-esteem would straighten out this type of guy from the get-go, and he'd either learn or move on to an easier "victim." But she would not be playing games; she'd be leading her life and if he objected, she'd set healthy boundaries. It wouldn't be a game!


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