# Wife wants open marriage for me, I'm unsure



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Hi.

I'll try to keep it brief. I'm 35 and my wife is 33, we are together for 9 years and we have a son of 4. Our relationship is great, we had problems but the relationship itself was never in question. We are both open and honest about our feelings and desires and have absolutely no trust issues.

But, sexually the relationship is asymmetrical, it was always that way just in the beginning we just didn't realize it. There was an issue of me being of higher drive and having more desire but frequency wise - it's not bad. The problem is I have various kinks and she is pretty vanilla girl. To make matters somewhat worse I'm attracted to non-monogamy lifestyle - different partners, threesomes, sex parties, swinging. She knows all of this. She told me she cannot share me with anyone. I have accepted that and I've decided that our relationship is more important than my kinks so I was and still am faithful to her. 

She did, in time, incorporated some of my kinks into our sex life and there is desire to please me for which I'm grateful and I do admire her willingness to push her boundaries for me. However we do them rarely since I'm aware it's for my benefit only and it kind of loses the appeal. 

Well, she is sick of the feeling that her needs are completely being met while mine have not. She also feels bad that she cannot be everything that I need when I have done that and much more for her. She wants me to have a fulfilling sex life and she no longer wants monogamy because of that. She feels that monogamy is not fair to me. She feels that our relationship is strong enough for this, she trusts me, my judgement and that it won't affect our sex life.

I admit I'm excited at the possibilities but it's also clear that she will be hurt if I follow through with this. She said that hurt will pass, it's her problem and she just needs time to adjust to the new situation and I need to just do it. She believes we will both be happier overall in the end.

Right now I feel that I'm in a catch 22 - whatever I decide to do she will be hurt and, more importantly I feel like a jerk for being me. I'm not sure what to do here at all...


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

It's a trap


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TheStranger,
I only have one question, at the end of my post. Between here and there is just a bunch of sincere observation. 

Let me share a couple totally non judgemental observations as a guy who himself is wired pretty strongly for monogamy. 

Even guys like me, who LIKE monogamy have the occasional desire for variety. We sometimes meet women we just - like. And desire magically appears. 

We don't pursue this occasional urge because, for a mix of reasons us humans don't do poly/open marriages well. We want to. They just don't work out. Statistically they have a much higher chance of divorce. 

And in your case, this is seems something your wife is ONLY offering to tolerate out of guilt. 

Question:
How often have you been bringing this up? Wishing out loud that you weren't stuck having sex with the same person over and over? 

Or better, asking her if SHE is getting bored. 

-------

If you are quite determined to proceed, perhaps a bit of MC first to at least agree rules of engagement with the help of a therapist / neutral third party. 






TheStranger said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'll try to keep it brief. I'm 35 and my wife is 33, we are together for 9 years and we have a son of 4. Our relationship is great, we had problems but the relationship itself was never in question. We are both open and honest about our feelings and desires and have absolutely no trust issues.
> 
> ...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm in a very successful open relationship that has lasted 16 years, so I'll offer my perspective. Based on what you've written, it sounds like you have a very sound and loving relationship, you genuinely care about each other and each other's happiness and fulfillment, and have very good communication. Your differing sexual interests can't be fully satisfied in the current relationship. To me, this sounds like a good scenario for an open relationship that works. Yes, there will be plenty of obstacles to overcome, such as initial/periodic episodes of jealousy, uncertainty, and fear. This is normal, and given your strong relationship, they can be overcome with a little effort as long as you remain devoted to each other. And for that to happen, you have to monitor any growing attachments to someone else, and enforce boundaries. If you know you can't pull back or honor boundaries, then this will not work, and you should not try. If you think you can, but find you are having trouble, you can still end the open agreement.

I suggest you both read "The Ethical Slvt: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures" by Dossie Easton and Janet W. Hardy, and talk about it before you make any decisions.

It sounds like you are - by nature - not naturally monogamous. Some people are not - really, most are not - but most can adapt. Not everyone can - or should. But everyone should deal with the exceptions ethically and honestly, which you are doing. A transition - if you do this - will have rough spots, but this can and does work - I know this from experience and by seeing other couples succeed as well. Of course, there are the failures, but most of those I've seen didn't have a strong relationship to begin with.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> Well, she is sick of the feeling that her needs are completely being met while mine have not. She also feels bad that she cannot be everything that I need when I have done that and much more for her. She wants me to have a fulfilling sex life and she no longer wants monogamy because of that. She feels that monogamy is not fair to me. She feels that our relationship is strong enough for this, she trusts me, my judgement and that it won't affect our sex life.
> 
> .


Sounds like she met someone and is trying to get rid of you.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> TheStranger,
> I only have one question, at the end of my post. Between here and there is just a bunch of sincere observation.
> 
> Let me share a couple totally non judgemental observations as a guy who himself is wired pretty strongly for monogamy.
> ...


I'm pretty certain, knowing her, that this will not end in divorce. However I am afraid of hurting her. 

As for your questions. I have only once early in the relationship brought up non monogamy by telling her that if she felt desire to do something with other people that I would prefer that she asks me so we can talk rather than cheat on me or repress it. It didn't go well, she was upset that I was so quickly letting her go and she questioned if I love her at all. I didn't mentioned again, every other conversation was instigated by her. She was bothered somewhat by my complete lack of jealousy. She wanted me to be possessive of her. She admitted later that much of that was fueled by her insecurities. Insecurities which she doesn't have anymore according to her. 

I don't ask her if she is bored but I do have occasionally talk about the state of the relationship and that includes if she is happy with our sex.

Thanks for the MC suggestion but in our country there are no such services which is interesting... Last few months we had multiple conversations about rules and boundaries. It was more out of curiosity what she means, how she envisions it and is this change in her purely out of guilt.



Married but Happy said:


> I suggest you both read "The Ethical Slvt: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures" by Dossie Easton and Janet W. Hardy, and talk about it before you make any decisions.
> 
> It sounds like you are - by nature - not naturally monogamous.


Thanks for the encouraging words, it's great that it works for you for such a long time. Thanks for the suggestions also. 

I'm curious - why do you think I'm not naturally monogamous?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She's got another dude.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> Thanks for the encouraging words, it's great that it works for you for such a long time. Thanks for the suggestions also.
> 
> I'm curious - why do you think I'm not naturally monogamous?


You're welcome. Keep thinking, asking questions, and talking - especially with your wife. It will become clear if she is sincere in her offer, doing so out of guilt (not good), or something else. 

Why do I think you may be naturally non-monogamous? You said:



> To make matters somewhat worse I'm attracted to non-monogamy lifestyle - different partners, threesomes, sex parties, swinging.


Someone who is naturally monogamous wouldn't even think about these things as something they might want to pursue.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Heatherknows said:


> Sounds like she met someone and is trying to get rid of you.





bandit.45 said:


> She's got another dude.


This woman has never lied to me. Why would she? I wouldn't be hurt if she decides to have sex with someone else. She can if she wants to. Only dishonesty would hurt me.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Someone who is naturally monogamous wouldn't even think about these things as something they might want to pursue.


I have totally misunderstood your sentence. I thought that your impression was that I am monogamous. *faceslap*


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> I'm pretty certain, knowing her, that this will not end in divorce. However I am afraid of hurting her.
> 
> As for your questions. I have only once early in the relationship brought up non monogamy by telling her that if she felt desire to do something with other people that I would prefer that she asks me so we can talk rather than cheat on me or repress it. It didn't go well, *she was upset that I was so quickly letting her go and she questioned if I love her at all.* I didn't mentioned again, every other conversation was instigated by her. *She was bothered somewhat by my complete lack of jealousy. She wanted me to be possessive of her.* She admitted later that much of that was fueled by her insecurities. Insecurities which she doesn't have anymore according to her.
> 
> ...


i think these are her REAL feelings and i think they are natural human response, not just 'her insecurities'.

though she may say otherwise, she is trying desperately to repress those feelings.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I am not wired like you at all. I like the safety and security of monogamy. I like making love to one person and figuring each other out. In 18 years, there was always something new I would find that she liked. It ripped me in half to think of her with another man. 

Your wife sounds like she thinks my way, and if she is being truthful about all this, there Is NO WAY IN HELL this will work for her. She will worry about diseases, whether you live someone else, worry about her security in the marriage, worry, worry, worry. The jealousy will be horrible, but just the too of the iceberg. 
Are you willing to destroy your wife?
Are you so self-centered that you can't see how this would affect her? Those things you say she might feel for a "while" won't go away. They'll get worse. You will possibly find someone that's just as kinky as you, but they will likely have horrible other problems that you won't see until it's too late. 

My suggestion is to put this out of your mind and find other ways to be happy. But it's obvious what's on your mind and people do what they want to do. It sounds like you have a wife that is a jewel. I'd keep her happy at all costs. You'll never find another that loves you enough to let you do this. 

Again, I don't think like you and understand that everyone is not like me. There are other ways to be happy than my way. 
My point is that your wife is like me, thinks like me that is. I can tell you if that's the case, you'll be divorced not long after this begins.

I do recognize that you haven't done anything but are considering it and your wife's feelings. My advice is not to do it. Sex is important, but it shouldn't be THAT important.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

If you do head down this road, go at a slow pace for her to be able to transition as well. Anything we do in life has risks to it. Whether you stay monogamous or open, no relationship is guaranteed to last, not even good ones.

I know of couples that made it work for decades and I know of some that cheating happened or they found someone else who eventually became better matched and they get more fulfillment.

The only thing really is to try and maintain boundaries. You may fall in love with someone else, and that love comes in degrees like attraction, and it will also be hard work on your part as you may have to let someone go if you do fall in love with someone else.

Even when I had FWBs, the bond was stronger due to the sex, it is a natural biological response. Just like when semen is absorb by females and release bonding hormones that develop love or what is also known as attachment.

And, it might take more energy on your part to place into the primary relationship as well. As long as you both remain open and honest, it gives you the best chance to succeed. Basically, the more you reinforce your primary, the better the odds.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> This woman has never lied to me. Why would she? I wouldn't be hurt if she decides to have sex with someone else. She can if she wants to. Only dishonesty would hurt me.


Maybe she met someone who doesn't want to share her with other men which she really wants and now has reason to lie to you.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Your wife seems to have made it pretty clear she doesn't want an open marriage, she's only entertaining it out of your persistent pushing the issue.

Someone who is "non-monogamous" can live in monogamy a lot better than a woman who wants monogamy but is now thrust into a swinging, multiple partner underworld.

This will be exciting, but it will likely end your marriage. If your wife is naturally monogamous it means any partner she finds she will likely form a bond with and that initial bond for the few few months of sex creates really powerful chemicals, your wife will fall in love with another man more than likely.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

intheory said:


> don't do this stuff and _stop bringing it up_; and acting like you're making a big sacrifice by being willing to be monogamous with her.
> 
> If you think about this all the time, fantasizing and longing for it, and feeling deprived then:





knobcreek said:


> Your wife seems to have made it pretty clear she doesn't want an open marriage, she's only entertaining it out of your persistent pushing the issue.


I'm very curious where do you see me pushing the issue?? In my opening post I explicitly said that I have agreed on monogamy with her. 

All this was her initiative and it does seem that she was thinking a lot about it. I have never asked her for open marriage.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

> Your wife seems to have made it pretty clear she doesn't want an open marriage, she's only entertaining it out of your persistent pushing the issue.


False. He hasn't pushed it, and she brought it up, is my reading of his OP.



> Someone who is "non-monogamous" can live in monogamy a lot better than a woman who wants monogamy but is now thrust into a swinging, multiple partner underworld.


True. On the other hand, there are many "mixed" couples, where one is monogamous (for themselves), and willingly allow their partner to be open or poly. This is a mono-poly relationship (no association with the board game).



> This will be exciting, but it will likely end your marriage. If your wife is naturally monogamous it means any partner she finds she will likely form a bond with and that initial bond for the few few months of sex creates really powerful chemicals, your wife will fall in love with another man more than likely.


False (except for the exciting part!). People in open marriages, swingers, and such have fewer marital problems and a lower likelihood of divorce, largely because of the good communication and consensual aspects of their activities. Also, she may not seek other partners - it sounds like a mono-poly relationship is her intention.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

I really think you need to decide which is more important to you - being married to your wife or having a number of partners. It is pretty clear that she is just giving in. The first time she confides in her friends or family, they are going to tell her to leave you. They are not going to understand, and I don't think that she understands that one woman is not enough for you. This is a point in which you have to decide what is most important to you 5, 10 and 20 years down the road - your current wife, or having had a plethora of sexual partners. Really, you are just making choices. You can choose to be monogamous and work within that framework to spice things up in ways that your wife is comfortable with and choose to change your own mindset, or you can choose to lose her because that is what will happen as soon as she confides what is going on and feels she needs emotional support from others.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife sounds like she thinks my way, and if she is being truthful about all this, there Is NO WAY IN HELL this will work for her. She will worry about diseases, whether you live someone else, worry about her security in the marriage, worry, worry, worry. The jealousy will be horrible, but just the too of the iceberg.
> Are you willing to destroy your wife?


My wife has no poker face whatsoever. Basically all her emotions are easy to read on her and sometime she hates that but I love it since I know how she feels about something. 

During these talks that we had so far, she hadn't cried at all and she would have if she felt afraid, hurt or sad. That was very important to me. If I had seen her cry during these talks and she cries easily, I would shut down all of this immediately. 

Truth is, I do feel unfulfilled and if there is a chance that this could work I'm willing to explore it but not at the expense of her happiness or at the expense of our marriage and so far, in our talks, this is not at jeopardy.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You CAN have both - IF she is truly agreeable and accepting of the notion, and not just giving in out of guilt that you can't get everything you need for sexual fulfillment in your current relationship. It is YOUR relationship, not her family's relationship, not her friends' relationship, so their opinion does not matter unless she is unduly swayed by them.

Still, there is a risk you may lose her. Together, she and you need to weigh those risks (and the risks associated with your unhappiness, which does matter) versus any benefits, and decide if it is worth it. People here can offer their opinions and perspectives, but we cannot know your situation and can't tell you what is actually right in your circumstances.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> False. He hasn't pushed it, and she brought it up, is my reading of his OP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree, what makes my relationship work is that we meet each other's needs as best as we can, we are open and honest, and we do all the little things that reinforce our bond. We also never sleep with the same person over and over again, nor do we sleep with someone that we interact a lot with.

A misconception is that we just sleep with anyone we are attracted to, which we do not. Really, the only time our relationship is open is when we are not available for one another.

The most important thing is the strength of our bond, our attachment to one another. The stronger that is, the more we are likely to pick one another and we have not had issues yet.

The only problem we had was when I did something stupid and suffered a concussion. She was scared and angry with myself and while she nursed me, she was quiet for a while until she can talk about her feelingsin a rational manner.

Really, more relationships would succeed if people invested their time and energy into it, and yet, remain their own healthy individual.

We minimize a lot of our risk by making one another a priority.

Just like if someone was in a monogamous relationship, they can limit risk of infidelity with a stronger marriage.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> It's a trap


It is a shît test! 

You make your wife feel inadequate, and she is testing you to see just how inadequate you think she actually is.

She also thinks your desire is constant and completely unassociated with her, and that "any hole" will do. By choosing an open marriage you will be sending a message to her that she is just an "inadequate hole" for your penis. 

Good luck!

Badsanta


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> This woman has never lied to me. Why would she? I wouldn't be hurt if she decides to have sex with someone else. She can if she wants to. Only dishonesty would hurt me.


I am curious when i read that about one spouse by the other, the fact remains that if she is a good enough liar you, you would not really know id she lied to you or not. Some liars are so convincing that they believe the lie themselves and actually end up sounding truthful. So you really can't say that she has never lied to you since everything she has ever told you was a lie and you have used that as your benchmark for her telling you the truth.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Work on your issues together. You bring another into your marriage it could be a disaster.

Don't do this!!!!!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> This woman has never lied to me. Why would she? I wouldn't be hurt if she decides to have sex with someone else. She can if she wants to. Only dishonesty would hurt me.


Oh....okay....


Um, well this is above my pay grade. Good luck to you.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> False (except for the exciting part!). People in open marriages, swingers, and such have fewer marital problems and a lower likelihood of divorce, largely because of the good communication and consensual aspects of their activities.


Not to be a stickler. Would you mind backing this up with some established, documented evidence?

I see on CWI tons of fail with open marriages. So I have doubts to the veracity of your claim. If I'm wrong, I have no issues admitting that.

I have have known three couples that were in open marriages. All three have failed and ended in terrible divorces. So I definitely am interested in seeing the evidence.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

Please don't do it. Opening a marriage exposes you to all sorts of traps and snares that you may not see coming. You think you're strong enough and that you can anticipate and plan for those rocky times, but it's a game changer. I'm just coming out of an open marriage and it destroyed us. We're still together, but barely.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Methinks that you are soon going to be paying child support in the very near future, thus giving you more than ample time to subject yourself to the non-monogamous lifestyle!

You don't need to be married!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So who has she been f*cking?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

snerg said:


> Not to be a stickler. Would you mind backing this up with some established, documented evidence?
> 
> I see on CWI tons of fail with open marriages. So I have doubts to the veracity of your claim. If I'm wrong, I have no issues admitting that.
> 
> I have have known three couples that were in open marriages. All three have failed and ended in terrible divorces. So I definitely am interested in seeing the evidence.


I can provide one research paper link right now, but it mostly applies to swingers, and shows that they generally have better, happier marriages that last. I can point to my own open relationship. I can also point out that over half of traditional marriages fail or are unhappy - everyone knows those stats all too well. So, I can say - with some certainty - that traditional marriages may well have a higher failure rate than consensual non-monogamous marriages. Anyway, you are free to draw your own conclusions and find your own evidence. Obviously, given the small percentages of people engaged in ethical non-monogamy, and their understandable desire to maintain privacy in the face of bias and discrimination, there are not many studies at all, especially recently - except this one (it's long, but well worth reading):

The Swinging Paradigm



> In conclusion, the findings of this study are consistent with those of previous research on swinging that suggest that swingers have high marital and sexual satisfaction.


I also found a less rigorous report about research that supports my view:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/strictly-casual/201412/are-people-in-open-relationships-happier



> Taking all these data together, it does seem like a myth busted: Not only are consensually nonmonogamous people *not* less happy, healthy, and sexually satisfied than the general population; they actually seem to enjoy *better* health, happiness, and sexual vitality.


 (emphasis mine)


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

If you go this route you need to be absolutely up front about it. if she wants to know, TELL THE TRUTH. If she is the type that does not want to know anything, then don't hide it but don't throw it in her face either. 

the question is how are you going to feel about it, both what you are doing and if she decides to get her own side person?


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## Garibaldi (Dec 21, 2015)

Newbie here!

My life experience & research tells me that for males an Open Marriage will be, in reality, Open Cuckoldry. If she really gets into it, for every time you get laid she will get laid 10, 20 or more times. Can you handle that?

Imagine the respective Craigs List ads:

"Attractive female, 30's, and in an open marriage seeks kind, interesting males for NSA safe sex." 

Her phone will ping its tits off.

"Attractive male. 30's, and in an open marriage seeks kind, interesting females for NSA safe sex."

He will only hear crickets chirping.

You think I'm wrong? Then explain why there are about 100 female sex workers for every male one.

Swinging?? To plagiarise Athol Kay's immortal comment: "You'd better have the biggest male sex organ in the room."


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> I'm 35 and my wife is 33, we are together for 9 years and *we have a son of 4.* Our relationship is great, we had problems but the relationship itself was never in question. We are both open and honest about our feelings and desires and have absolutely no trust issues.
> 
> 
> .....I have accepted that and I've decided that *our relationship is more important than my kinks so I was and still am faithful to her. *
> ...


First of all you are risking being there to watch your son grow up. For me that would be a huge issue to put on the table.

Second, you said that your relationship was more important than your kinks. So is it or isn't it?

Remember that having NSA sex is really difficult as you and whoever you are having sex with are both fighting biology. Sex was designed to bond to people together emotionally. Are you really going to be smart enough to find a sex partner who will not fall in love with you and work so destroy your marriage? Are you really strong enough not to fall in love with your new sex buddy?

Finally if your really do need to stick your toe (or other appendix) in that pond, you might try having sex with a stranger who is actually your wife or the two of you can work into it slowly.

You might want to listen to the pod cast on Monogomish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sYguTPLpHE


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Xenote said:


> I am curious when i read that about one spouse by the other, the fact remains that if she is a good enough liar you, you would not really know id she lied to you or not.


It's true. Let me rephrase that then - I've never found out that she lied to me and I've never seen her lie someone else. 



intheory said:


> It seems like your wife has reached the point where she feels she must capitulate;


Why? We have a great marriage, I've accepted monogamy, there was no danger of me leaving her and I wouldn't cheat - I respect myself too much for that. Why would she capitulate in your words? 



Garibaldi said:


> Newbie here!
> 
> My life experience & research tells me that for males an Open Marriage will be, in reality, Open Hypergamy. If she really gets into it, for every time you get laid she will get laid 10, 20 or more times. Can you handle that?


For me, relationship rules are pretty simple - don't lie to me, don't neglect me. If she can be there for me, as she is now in this life partnership and still have time and energy to screw a bunch of guys then she is welcome to it.

Oh, btw. welcome to TAM!


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

I hope I don't get an STD reading this thread.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I have no clue whatsoever how you could love your wife and still be able to be ok with her f'ing other men.

Either I'm psychologically challenged or the op
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> First of all you are risking being there to watch your son grow up. For me that would be a huge issue to put on the table.
> 
> Second, you said that your relationship was more important than your kinks. So is it or isn't it?


It is. But, these are not mutually exclusive things and I might remind you that this talks are happening at her insistence, not mine. I don't believe we're risking marriage over this. However, I'm not saying it's risk free. It's not.



> Are you really strong enough not to fall in love with your new sex buddy?


I'll break it off if it happens.



> Finally if your really do need to stick your toe (or other appendix) in that pond, you might try having sex with a stranger who is actually your wife or the two of you can work into it slowly.


I didn't understood this suggestion. Care to elaborate? 

Btw. thanks for the link.


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## Garibaldi (Dec 21, 2015)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garibaldi View Post
Newbie here!

My life experience & research tells me that for males an Open Marriage will be, in reality, Open Hypergamy. If she really gets into it, for every time you get laid she will get laid 10, 20 or more times. Can you handle that?
For me, relationship rules are pretty simple - don't lie to me, don't neglect me. If she can be there for me, as she is now in this life partnership and still have time and energy to screw a bunch of guys then she is welcome to it.

Oh, btw. welcome to TAM!******


Sorry I hadn't had breakfast when I posted; hypoglycaemia=brainfreeze. Obviously Cuckoldry not Hypergamy! 

OK!

It seems you believe in compersion. Well all I can do is quote that line from a very old movie: "You're a better man than I am Gunga Din!" 

That does not, however, address the reality of the casual or non-monogamous sexual marketplace:

"Men have sex when they can. Women have sex when they want to".

I'm dying to know because we are much older than you and have an easier path to where you want to go: (kids grown & doing very well, no financial problems, plenty of free time etc).

Oh! And disregard the STD scaremongers; the stats say people in "The Lifestyle" have lower levels of infection than the general public due to rigorous safe sex practices. The worst offenders are the sneaky adulterers and newly "carefree" singles of a certain age where pregnancy is not a risk.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

I agree with @Garibaldi if you open up the marriage, your wife will likely have considerable more success landing partners to have flings with than the OP will. If she takes a shine to it she may keep a stable of studs around and leave you with clean up duty while you wait for that first couple to select you from the 300 responses they got to their ad.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Stranger,
Your wife is pushing this even though she doesn't want it. 

Is that because she believes you aren't fully satisfied with the marriage 'as is'. Where is her perception coming from?

A whole lot of (NVC) non verbal communication goes on in a marriage. And I'm thinking you've been maybe broadcasting a whole lot of (sexual?) dissatisfaction of one sort or another thru my favorite radio station: wNVC

From the bit of reading I've done, BOTH folks have to favor an open relationship for it to work. 

Getting the impression this is a huge sacrifice she's willing to make for you. 

She raises it, you get all excited, feeds into the notion you aren't all that happy with the world as it is. 

---------
You know M2 offers this up regularly. Says: babe, if you want to get a concubine I'd understand.

Just tilt my head and ask: Really?

M2: Sure, go ahead. I am however going to have a tough decision to make.

MEM: Whether to kill me fast and painless or slow and torturously?

M2: Oh no. Already decided that. Answer is slow. Real slow. No the thing I haven't wrapped my head around yet is which of the two of you I'd kill first, you or the unlucky concubine. As always, open to suggestions. 

Why I always go for a flat affect when I utter the word: Really?

Jealousy is a hard wired trait. I'm thinking the reality of you doing this, might be a lot harder on your wife than you think. 




TheStranger said:


> It is. But, these are not mutually exclusive things and I might remind you that this talks are happening at her insistence, not mine. I don't believe we're risking marriage over this. However, I'm not saying it's risk free. It's not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If your wife agrees to it, and the same rules apply to her, she will get laid five times as much as you will. 

She is a hotter commodity than you are pal. I think you have it in your mind that she might go out with another dude once or twice every six months. Sorry....try three or four times a month.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Yes, if she wants, she can get far more action than the OP ever could. However, it's unlikely that's what she wants - a promiscuous series of lovers. More likely - and very typically - a woman in this scenario finds one or two guys and sticks with them. Men in this scenario usually do the same - find one or two women and not change frequently. It's too difficult and time consuming to keep finding new people - once you find one or two that work for you, you're done. Yes, he will have fewer potential prospects, but don't forget that despite her having dozens of potential lovers, very, very few will be quality choices. The discrepancy is much smaller than you'd think.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> .....I'll break it off if it happens.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The problem with "breaking it off if it happens" is that it can happen to either you or your sex buddy BEFORE you realize it has happened. 

As to elaborating.....


> listen to the pod cast on Monogomish


The woman in the podcast suggests that one way for gain the excitement of non-monogamy is to do things with your partner that stretch your limits but don't technically violate your marriage vows.

For example she suggest flirting with a waitress and then going home to each other. She suggests going to a strip club together and paying a stripper to arouse you with say a series of lap dances and then go home together. She suggests going on-line to a sex video or phone sex operator together and then having you masturbate to the other woman's voice/picture. 

This assumes that your wife would rather push herself to be a little uncomfortable rather than having you disappear to have sex with another woman. 

If what you want is just "more frequent sex" it probably won't work for you and your wife as she will always be lower desire than you. If what you want is sex which is different or more risk intense, then it might be a substitute that you can live with.

As someone with a very inhibited wife, I can understand if your wife might rather you go find someone else than have your wife stretch her comfort zone. However, for the sake of your child, I would urge you to try things within your marriage, before you go outside it.

Also I would point out to you that other HD/LD couples on this forum who have worked on changing their marital dynamic and reaching new compromises that result in both getting the sex they can live with.

Good luck


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

intheory said:


> It's not that a lot of guys wouldn't love, love, LOVE to have an open marriage.
> 
> It's that "the wife" can potentially "get laid" , 10, 20, 100 times more. (Boo hoo, sniff sniff)
> 
> ...


I understand the thrill and excitement of a person other than your spouse wanting you. It feels good and makes brain chemistry soar. But in reality it's pretty gross to think of your husbands penis in another woman or having some guy who couldn't give a sh*t about you slobber all over you. Flirting is fun. Anything more is yucky.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How do men survive this long without having a clue? Hopefully your wife and son will find someone with a brain to really love them and take care of them.

hopefully, you end up better than your qualifications would entitle you for. You do not have the slightest idea what your wife is thinking.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

intheory said:


> It's that "the wife" can potentially "get laid" , 10, 20, 100 times more. (Boo hoo, sniff sniff)
> 
> And you'd better have the "biggest organ in the room", 'cause guess what - your wife may experience sex with a man whose got a bigger penis than you


LOL In reality, that's total BS. I've already addressed this once. Yes, she can "potentially" get laid 100x more, but it's extremely unlikely she - or almost any woman - wants that. If she participates at all, she'd almost certainly prefer to find one or two good partners. She'd have the burden of having to screen through all the users, players, and fakes to find them, though, so the potential is actually rather limited when it comes to finding decent, good partners.

Ah, the old biggest penis myth raises its ugly head again! Once again, I call BS. Some women want and can handle the biggest, but most want someone fairly average so that it doesn't hurt. Unless OP is smaller than average, average is plenty good for most women.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Heatherknows said:


> I hope I don't get an STD reading this thread.





intheory said:


> ...and that she dumps your sad, sorry azz.





Chaparral said:


> Hopefully your wife and son will find someone with a brain to really love them and take care of them.


I really have no idea what I did to deserve this...


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Jealousy is a hard wired trait. I'm thinking the reality of you doing this, might be a lot harder on your wife than you think.


I understand. Yes, she knows that I'm feeling unfulfilled. I have mentioned that in my opening post. I know it's the catalyst for all of this but I have never pressured her intentionally and I have never nudged her in any way in this direction. Until last few months, I sincerely believed that open marriage is not a realistic possibility.



Young at Heart said:


> The woman in the podcast suggests that one way for gain the excitement of non-monogamy is to do things with your partner that stretch your limits but don't technically violate your marriage vows.


Thanks with suggestions. Some variations of this we already do. For example, I have a Fetlife (BDSM social site) account and I do talk to women there. She is happy about it, considers it a good way to expand our horizons.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

All,

Steady now. 


QUOTE=TheStranger;14456178]I really have no idea what I did to deserve this...[/QUOTE]


----------



## Garibaldi (Dec 21, 2015)

intheory said:


> She might just want one or two partners. Then again, she might not. She might want 5 or 10 or 15.
> 
> The actual number is irrelevant. The point made upthread which I was basically paraphrasing; is that the wife is usually going to have access to more partners. And that's what bothers the husband. And that's really why most men are reticent about open relationships/marriage. They feel threatened.
> 
> ...


Hey! MBH!

Behold The Holy Trinity of Feminist Shaming Language!

1. We are misogynists

2. We can't get laid.

3. We probably have small penises (but, fear not, that doesn't REALLY matter to women, only to men- gee thanks for that! I never would have guessed)

Hell's Bells & Buckets of Blood!

I'm now going to browse Jezabel.com to get some more perspective.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> I understand. Yes, she knows that I'm feeling unfulfilled. I have mentioned that in my opening post. I know it's the catalyst for all of this *but I have never pressured her intentionally* and I have never nudged her in any way in this direction. Until last few months, I sincerely believed that open marriage is not a realistic possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks with suggestions. Some variations of this we already do. For example, I have a Fetlife (BDSM social site) account and I do talk to women there.* She is happy about it, considers it a good way to expand our horizons.*


Do some introspection and see if you haven't subconsciously been excited by and pressured her about an open marriage. Your posts sound like you are warming to the idea and like the idea of it.

If the monogomish approach is something you are doing and it is working, then why not continue it with theme and variation rather than tossing your marriage vows totally out the window. Marriage is about compromise and you seem to have an option that could provide you with something that would fulfill you within your marriage. Again, I keep thinking about your child and what an open marriage could do in destroying your relationship to your child.

Good luck.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

intheory said:


> Thanks for checking in Garibaldi.
> 
> Your original comments were actually my inspiration.


At first I found this thread entertaining but now I'm feeling somewhat sad. Perhaps the OP is too focused on his genitals or has some kind of sexual dysfunction/preoccupation...IDK. I mean...how many pu$$ys does one really need?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Heatherknows said:


> At first I found this thread entertaining but now I'm feeling somewhat sad. Perhaps the OP is too focused on his genitals or has some kind of sexual dysfunction/preoccupation...IDK. I mean...how many pu$$ys does one really need?


I guess that varies by person and circumstances, just like some women seem to need more than one penis. Or is it about genitals at all? I'd say that it isn't - it certainly isn't for me. It's often about relationships. And the fact that not everyone is the same or needs or wants the same things in life and no one person can usually satisfy all our needs in any area.

I can see that monogamy is often a suppression/dysfunction of natural urges, that may not be necessary to suppress. It's a matter of perspective and social conditioning, IMO. Does that make monogamy wrong or dysfunctional? No more so than other types of relationships conducted honestly.

Anyway, the decision for me is one of dealing with such desires and activities ethically, or - as most people do - by cheating. It seems far better to honestly discuss and reach agreement, than cheat because you have the desire but no honest way to satisfy it.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Anyway, the decision for me is one of dealing with such desires and activities ethically, or - as most people do - by cheating. It seems far better to honestly discuss and reach agreement, than cheat because you have the desire but no honest way to satisfy it.


This is brilliant and true. The quality of a relationship is, at least for me, measured in degree of honesty, openness and willingness to talk about everything. This is what I'm doing now. I have no plans to step out right now. Just talk.

Thanks.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

TheStranger, understand, this is a pro marriage and, for the most part, a pro-monogamy website. The majority of us on TAM adhere to the Judeo-Christian ethic of the one-man-one-woman-marriage-for-life creed. 

People here are not going to cheer you on for what you are proposing. You are asking us to sanction adultery....which is what open marriages and swinging are. You are wasting emotional energy even getting irritated by folks who are calling you out on it.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

OP, there is a mono-poly group on fet with some really great stickies. I suggest that you send your wife there to do some reading. Many of the threads are started by the mono partner working to come to terms with having a poly partner. By the same token, there are threads by the poly partner who is living a mono lifestyle and seeking support. What I like about the forum is that the discussions start beyond the point of "is this a good idea" and are working through the issues of couples who have made the mutual decision to have this sort of marriage. That is not to say that the stories all all roses. This lifestyle can be emotionally wrenching for both partners, especially in the early stages. 




TheStranger said:


> I'm pretty certain, knowing her, that this will not end in divorce. However I am afraid of hurting her.
> 
> As for your questions. I have only once early in the relationship brought up non monogamy by telling her that if she felt desire to do something with other people that I would prefer that she asks me so we can talk rather than cheat on me or repress it. It didn't go well, *she was upset that I was so quickly letting her go* and she *questioned if I love her at all.* I didn't mentioned again, every other conversation was instigated by her. *She was bothered somewhat by my complete lack of jealousy. She wanted me to be possessive of her.* She admitted later that much of that was fueled by her insecurities. Insecurities which she doesn't have anymore according to her.


I could handle it if my husband decided to have other sexual partners. I'd have to work really, really hard if he decided to have a relationship (emotional as well as sexual) with another partner. But those aren't hard limits for me (as far as I know). I'd be willing to work with him on those scenarios if he came to me and asked. However, the moment he stopped owning me, the moment he could tolerate another man in my life, emotionally or physically, would be the day I'd die inside, the day I knew we were done. And I say that as someone who is probably poly and most definitely kinky, but who has been unwaveringly monogamous for 25 years because feeling owned--utterly and jealously possessed-- by my man is more important to me, perhaps, than anything else about my marriage or my sexuality. 

I might be the rare woman, but then again . . .


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> This is brilliant and true. The quality of a relationship is, at least for me, measured in degree of honesty, openness and willingness to talk about everything. This is what I'm doing now. I have no plans to step out right now. Just talk.
> 
> Thanks.


I agree with Bandits above post. I understand there are people on this site who have different lifestyle choices. While I can relate to the excitement of having a person other than your spouse look at you as attractive and enjoy that attention immensely the buck seems to stop there for me. I have cyber cheated on my husband which was wrong and told him what happened. If he turned to me and said "It's OK, why don't you keep doing it?" I'd be terrified and feel worthless. Also, while I was cheating I felt guilty and confused. I can understand enjoying the rush of a new relationship but it's not a way to live. I've never tired heroin. I bet that feels good but using it isn't a healthy way to live so instead of doing drugs you find other things to do. IDK. This swinging open marriage stuff just sound sleazy and depressing to me.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

intheory said:


> ....It's that "the wife" can potentially "get laid" , 10, 20, 100 times more. (Boo hoo, sniff sniff)
> 
> And you'd better have the "biggest organ in the room", 'cause guess what - your wife may experience sex with a man whose got a bigger penis than you
> 
> ...





intheory said:


> ....The point made upthread which I was basically paraphrasing; is that the wife is usually going to have access to more partners. And that's what bothers the husband. And that's really why most men are reticent about open relationships/marriage. They feel threatened.
> 
> ....The big penis factor. Did you see my "shock" smiley? In case you didn't get it, *it was a joke. * Humor not coming across too well in written internet comments. I could give a rats backside about penis size. But lots of women do care about it. As it their right, a preference is a preference.
> 
> ...


I think that you are soon going to be the next Bad Santa as far as unusual humor, if you keep up the big penis stuff.

Not really into generalizations as to who will get the most action or who stands the most to loose in an open marriage. I do agree that the child is the most vulnerable, but I don't think an open marriage would make him any more likely to be ultra christian, or join a specific political party. 

Whether the wife or the H get's more action will be a function of how hard they each try, their age and how they look. 

I know a number of 70 year old guys in assisted living places who have four or five girl friends, simply because they are able to drive their girl friends on errands. So it is not just gender. One of my son's friends was actually upset at this grandfather (who he was living with while he saved money) because his grandfather was constantly having women over at all hours of the day for sex and he was seeing way more than he wanted to.

I would also remind you of one of Marylin Monroe's famous laments. She wondered why she as a sex symbol spent so many nights home alone with no one to talk to. Sometimes even the most beautiful women are lonely, because men don't ask them out for many reasons.


Now back to penis size;

Personally, I know I have one of the largest sex organs in the room.

I know this because it is located between my ears and I have learned in my 66+ years and 2 university graduate degrees that the best sexual experience are created in two people's minds before you every get your clothes off. I would rather have smarts and knowledge than an abnormal appendage. This too is said jokingly, but also seriously as the mind being the biggest sex organ responsible for pleasure.

Enjoy!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"She'd have the burden of having to screen through all the users, players, and fakes to find them, though, so the potential is actually rather limited *when it comes to finding decent, good partners*."

Yeah, I imagine _ethical slvts _are hard to come by. What if she doesn't care if they are decent, good partners? What if she's running a numbers game? What if she's doing research on penis size? 

She isn't the one who wants to step out so she can attach any requirements that suit her. Breathing? Younger? Snappy dresser? Tall or short. The sky's the limit for her. Because she doesn't want another relationship or another bed partner.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> I know this because it is located between my ears and I have learned in my 66+ years and 2 university graduate degrees that the best sexual experience are created in two people's minds before you every get your clothes off. I would rather have smarts and knowledge than an abnormal appendage. This too is said jokingly, but also seriously as the mind being the biggest sex organ responsible for pleasure.
> 
> Enjoy!


Not during orgies, then it's all about hard bodies and large units. I'm not an orgy guy, but I've watched enough amateur porn to be well versed on the subject lol...

Take two average people who get into swinging, they're both 6's for example. The 6 wife can bang a young well endowed 8-10 pretty much every night of the week within a day of putting out an advertisement. The 6 guy will literally take months to get laid, no one wants him as their third, and a woman wanting a fantasy boytoy isn't picking an average Joe. It's not what the lifestyle is about. The lifestyle is perfect for those into hypergamy or cuckolding, but not so much for dudes looking to land multiple partners while their wife only has one or two, or none.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

That could be true, knobcreek, _if_ they play separately or mostly want threesomes. (Since about two-thirds of female swingers are bisexual, most often the threesomes - if any - are FFM so the husband usually benefits in those scenarios.) The vast majority of swingers do so as a _couple_, with _another_ couple, so there isn't the kind of imbalance you depict.

In open marriages, though, your point has more merit, but in practice it is seldom so one-sided.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

@TheStranger...your kinks might just be a fantasy going on in your mind. It should be left as a fantasy. I am not sure there's true fulfillment in finding sexual happiness outside the one whom you vowed to love and be committed to.

Besides, there's so much sweetness and mystery in one pu$$y...a lifetime would not suffice to comprehend or enjoy it all. An open marriage will just leave you empty on the inside, while you think you're fulfilling your kinks on the outside


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

bb-jay said:


> @TheStranger...your kinks might just be a fantasy going on in your mind. It should be left as a fantasy. I am not sure there's true fulfillment in finding sexual happiness outside the one whom you vowed to love and be committed to.
> 
> *Besides, there's so much sweetness and mystery in one pu$$y...a lifetime would not suffice to comprehend or enjoy it all*. An open marriage will just leave you empty on the inside, while you think you're fulfilling your kinks on the outside


Exactly. Like I said "How many pu$$y's does one person need?"

(Men, feel free to make a poll on the above question.)


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'll try to keep it brief. I'm 35 and my wife is 33, we are together for 9 years and we have a son of 4. Our relationship is great, we had problems but the relationship itself was never in question. We are both open and honest about our feelings and desires and have absolutely no trust issues.
> 
> ...



I don't presume to speak for anyone here, but if Mrs.CuddleBug suddenly told me, its okay to have another woman, open marriage, 3 some, etc., that would tell me she already is having sex with someone else. This would be her justification for me to have sex with another woman, so she's off the hook.

When I decided to marry Mrs.CuddleBug, I try and take my marriage vows seriously. That means I don't commit adultery. Adultery is when you have sex with someone else while you are married. That is a sin under God, if you believe in God. Marriage is the holy bonds of matrimony between hubby and wifee and not another woman or man. That's purposeful adultery.

Just because you can do it, talk your way into it to justify it away, doesn't make it right.


It comes down to what you believe.

God Marriage "Special" 

OR

Anything goes, open marriage, 3 some, adultery and try to talk and justify its okay.


When you get married, you are not your own anymore. That means she is to take care of your needs as her own and she is not her own anymore and vise versa.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

It sounds as though your W has done everything in her power to accommodate and cater to your needs, but still hasn't succeeded... It's my guess that if you take her up on the open marriage scenario, even though she suggested it, you will have pushed her too far. She's already told you that she won't share you and, IMO, this is a test...


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> Not during orgies, then it's all about hard bodies and large units. I'm not an orgy guy, but I've watched enough amateur porn to be well versed on the subject lol...
> 
> Take two average people who get into swinging, they're both 6's for example. The 6 wife can bang a young well endowed 8-10 pretty much every night of the week within a day of putting out an advertisement. The 6 guy will literally take months to get laid, no one wants him as their third, and a woman wanting a fantasy boytoy isn't picking an average Joe. It's not what the lifestyle is about. The lifestyle is perfect for those into hypergamy or cuckolding, but not so much for dudes looking to land multiple partners while their wife only has one or two, or none.


LOL!

That's a riot. So you have average looking middle age couple. Guy convinces his wife to swing. She agrees as last resort to save marriage. Wife starts sleeping with lots of hot men. Nobody want's to fu*k husband. She finds younger, hot boyfriend, divorces husband. Wife buys thigh-high boots and panties with alimony payments to fu*k boyfriend.

Karma

0


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Heatherknows said:


> LOL!
> 
> That's a riot. So you have average looking middle age couple. Guy convinces his wife to swing. She agrees as last resort to save marriage. *Wife starts sleeping with lots of hot men. Nobody want's to fu*k husband.* She finds younger, hot boyfriend, divorces husband. Wife buys hot boots and panties with alimony payments to fu*k boyfriend.
> 
> ...


Unless he's got a hefty bank balance, then there will be an abundance of young hotties only too eager to pay the price of relieving him of it.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I personally wouldn't do it.

This is a test for sure.

If you truly love her, you are committed to her mentally and physically.

You could get a divorce.

I can see what would happen.....I tell Mrs.CuddleBug I want another woman because her sex drive isn't high or adventurous enough.....

Mrs.CuddleBug would......throw my things out the door and file for divorce taking me for everything.

Marriage isn't a piece of paper.

But this is all common sense to me. Either I man up, and be faithful to Mrs.CuddleBug (no other women) or I don't, try to talk my view into committing adultery......adultery is adultery, no matter how you try and talk your way out of it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Would it suffice to BE the biggest d*ck in the room?

Because I've got that one covered.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

An open marriage is NOT a marriage, anyway. Just my opinion. It's definitely wrong. If op does this, he will no doubt find out why it's wrong.

Thankfully the only fantasies I have involves my significant other. And I plan on her being my wife as soon as possible. I do sometimes wonder about sex before marriage. I know that's wrong, too, but how else do you know if you're sexually compatible? I guess it's because marriage shouldn't be based on sex anyway.

I know OP is headed for divorce if he does this and hope he doesn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> LOL!
> 
> That's a riot. So you have average looking middle age couple. Guy convinces his wife to swing. She agrees as last resort to save marriage. Wife starts sleeping with lots of hot men. Nobody want's to fu*k husband. She finds younger, hot boyfriend, divorces husband. Wife buys thigh-high boots and panties with alimony payments to fu*k boyfriend.
> 
> ...


Pretty much the deal, we all know women can get a man to have casual sex with very easily, even a very attractive man to her averageness. This will play against the "swinging lifestyle" of the OP big time unless he's a real commodity i.e. he's good looking and packing a monster. No couple looking for a 3some with another guy is looking to bring in an average Joe with manboobs. They're gonna find some athletic dude with a big penis. Any woman looking for a guy on the side is also going to want something her husband can't offer, youth, large penis, muscles, money for dates etc...

They'll let hubby sit in the corner and watch... lol

Main reason I never brought the idea up. I know in the casual sex market I can't compete with my wife, she could get laid 10 times before I have dinner ready tonight.

I think the OP has probably watched too much porn.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> Pretty much the deal, we all know women can get a man to have casual sex with very easily, even a very attractive man to her averageness. This will play against the "swinging lifestyle" of the OP big time unless he's a real commodity i.e. he's good looking and packing a monster. No couple looking for a 3some with another guy is looking to bring in an average Joe with manboobs. They're gonna find some athletic dude with a big penis. Any woman looking for a guy on the side is also going to want something her husband can't offer, youth, large penis, muscles, money for dates etc...
> 
> They'll let hubby sit in the corner and watch... lol
> 
> ...


It sort of reminds me of how birds mate. The male is always the more beautiful one with lots of fine feathers that he uses to lure the very plain female. And he needs to work it in order to attract the female.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'll try to keep it brief. I'm 35 and my wife is 33, we are together for 9 years and we have a son of 4. Our relationship is great, we had problems but the relationship itself was never in question. We are both open and honest about our feelings and desires and have absolutely no trust issues.
> 
> ...


A lot of the advice you've recieved so far is that either an open-marriage is not a marriage, or that both of you want other people and it's basically wrong.

Marriage isn't about ownership, it's about companionship. Consider the sources. Where most of the advice here will come from those with broken marriages due to infidelity, you've got to keep in mind that sex outside the mariages is what resulted in most divorces and they will guide you clear in the opposite direction. But, you are not trying to prevent divorce, you are just simply trying to evolve the marriage you both currently share. Everyone else will try to come in as the expert. Only you and your wife can sustain the marriage contract (yes, marriage vows are a contract. Contracts are subject to change with consent from both parties) if you both want. 

Here is just my opinion. Your wife has taken on a different view. It may seem as though she is accepting of your lifestyle and it may seem that she is just trying to be an accomadating partner. But think of this, has it occurred to you that maybe she too has progressed as a person and as a result of the exposure to your life that she too has taken on a less oppressed lifestyle? Most people are repressed and dont have access to themselves and thier deeper desires. If she saw in you, a less inhibited man, that you radiated a dangerous sexuality, that you are spontaneous, and have far fewer fears than most husbands... then that makes you more powerful through her eyes than most many other men. An extension of being more uninhibited is a dreamlike quality to a woman. Your wife may not have wanted just the temptation. She may have always wanted to be able to give in to that temptation as well. She has finally reached the point to where she is comfortable in lowering her inhibitions just as you have. It costs far more in the long term to resist to temptation, than it costs to surrender to it. Your wife, it appears, has spent an incredible amount of time paying attention to you and learning. Outstanding. Without realizing it, you have really occupied this woman's mind. Your promiscuity no doubt distracted her mind and the only way to relax a distracted mind is to get it to focus on one thing, your lifestyle. Example, a hypnotist asks the patient to focus on a watch swinging back and forth. Once the patient focuses, the mind relaxes, the senses awaken, and the body becomes prone to all sorts of novel sensations and physical suggestions. Once thier overactive mind starts to slow down and focuses on themselves, thier senses will come to life and thier physical demands will double. 

Your wife may have been timid at first, but you have lowered her inhibitions. She is setting aside being so humble and overpolite and it appears as though she has realized this history in most cultures that the woman is supposed to take on an opressed role is one she no longer wishes to conform to. Both of you have created a custom life for each other. Danger and taboo appeal now to this womans repressed side. According to everyone else who is NOT her husband, she is supposed to be a civilizing, moralizing force, demanding physical commitement. According to everyone who is NOT your wife, you too are supposed to take on a more repressed role. It's very well possible that she is willing to play out that repressed side of her personality alongside WITH you, not FOR you. After all these years of living in the real world and having lost the ability to be herself without inhibitions, she has now turned her desire and attention to boldness and your marriage will benefit enormously from it. Do Enjoy.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Heatherknows said:


> LOL!
> 
> That's a riot. So you have average looking middle age couple. Guy convinces his wife to swing. She agrees as last resort to save marriage. Wife starts sleeping with lots of hot men. Nobody want's to fu*k husband. She finds younger, hot boyfriend, divorces husband. Wife buys thigh-high boots and panties with alimony payments to fu*k boyfriend.
> 
> ...


Obviously, you know NOTHING about how swinging works, which isn't too surprising as most people are clueless unless they've tried it or done some real investigation. You may be a little closer (but not much) when it comes to open relationships. But, your imagery is great! I had a good laugh, so thank you.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

My best advice is keep talking aand talking and perhaps wait for a while. Let her do some research and go from there.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

knobcreek said:


> Pretty much the deal, we all know women can get a man to have casual sex with very easily, even a very attractive man to her averageness. This will play against the "swinging lifestyle" of the OP big time unless he's a real commodity i.e. he's good looking and packing a monster. No couple looking for a 3some with another guy is looking to bring in an average Joe with manboobs. They're gonna find some athletic dude with a big penis. Any woman looking for a guy on the side is also going to want something her husband can't offer, youth, large penis, muscles, money for dates etc...
> 
> They'll let hubby sit in the corner and watch... lol


Well, in some cases you are probably right. On the other hand, in many you'd be wrong. There are plenty of single guys who are not a "real commodity" and don't have a "monster," who do get laid regularly. They are simply pleasant people who know how to make a woman feel good about herself, with the skills to please them. A big penis isn't enough, except occasionally for a woman who just wants that experience at least once.

As a fairly average guy - and older than many (but no man boobs) - I've gotten plenty of invites to be a third or play with the wife alone. It's really just about someone different, and the novelty of a different personality - yes, the physical does make for excitement, but you needn't be anything "special" or unusual to join the party. My much younger and very attractive FWB of over 4 years keeps coming back for more, too, which again contradicts your silly assertions.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> Obviously, you know NOTHING about how swinging works, which isn't too surprising as most people are clueless unless they've tried it or done some real investigation. You may be a little closer (but not much) when it comes to open relationships. But, you imagery is great! I had a good laugh, so thank you.


I don't know how swinging works. I've read posts here and I remember seeing something on TV about it. 

I'm into traditional romance.(Opening my car door, not letting me see the bill, telling me you've never felt this way before and want me more than any woman you've ever met...and mean it.)

(that kind of stuff)


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> I'm into traditional romance.(Opening my car door, not letting me see the bill, telling me you've never felt this way before and want me more than any woman you've ever met...and mean it.)
> 
> (that kind of stuff)



I'm certainly no swinger expert, but aren't these part of a (swinger) woman's lifestyle as well??


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Apexmale said:


> I'm certainly no swinger expert, but aren't these part of a (swinger) woman's lifestyle as well??


Heatherdoesn'tknow.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Apexmale said:


> I'm certainly no swinger expert, but aren't these part of a (swinger) woman's lifestyle as well??


Pretty much. We are very romantic together, and we truly are each other's best and favorite and can't live without match. We just like a little variety, as well!

Of course, swingers are just like everybody else, so there is a huge range of personality and relationship types, except for adding in some extramarital sexual variety and adventure.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Question. If she says go ahead and find another woman and sleep with her and you do it and it doesn't bother her, are you fully prepared for the day when she says she met a guy, he turns her on and she want to check in to a motel for the night with this guy and try him out. 

Could you be cool with with your wife lying naked in bed doing things with some random guy that she only did for you? 

There's a old saying. "Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it", and you may not like the results


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

badsanta said:


> It is a shît test!
> 
> You make your wife feel inadequate, and she is testing you to see just how inadequate you think she actually is.
> 
> ...


Badsanta, this is an amazing post and right on!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> A lot of the advice you've recieved so far is that either an open-marriage is not a marriage, or that both of you want other people and it's basically wrong.
> 
> Marriage isn't about ownership, it's about companionship. Consider the sources. Where most of the advice here will come from those with broken marriages due to infidelity, you've got to keep in mind that sex outside the mariages is what resulted in most divorces and they will guide you clear in the opposite direction. But, you are not trying to prevent divorce, you are just simply trying to evolve the marriage you both currently share. Everyone else will try to come in as the expert. Only you and your wife can sustain the marriage contract (yes, marriage vows are a contract. Contracts are subject to change with consent from both parties) if you both want.
> 
> ...


Evolve the marriage? Sounds fairly eloquent, but it's bs for anyone with morals. I seriously doubt op's wife is attracted to him wanting to bang other women and watch a dude do his wife, but she married him and may indeed be just as interested in these fantasies as he is...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Evolve the marriage? Sounds fairly eloquent, but it's bs for anyone with morals. I seriously doubt op's wife is attracted to him wanting to bang other women and watch a dude do his wife, but she married him and may indeed be just as interested in these fantasies as he is...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't you know, Evinrude? Open marriages are evolved and progressive.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Evolve the marriage? Sounds fairly eloquent, but it's bs for anyone with morals. I seriously doubt op's wife is attracted to him wanting to bang other women and watch a dude do his wife, but she married him and may indeed be just as interested in these fantasies as he is...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There's the key, "you seriously doubt...". These type marriages aren't for everyone, very few are capable of sustaining one. These couples don't share the limitations that you do.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

soccermom2three said:


> Don't you know, Evinrude? Open marriages are evolved and progressive.


Actually no, he doesn't know. His ex-wife decided to live without limitations as well.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Actually no, he doesn't know. His ex-wife decided to live without limitations as well.


Wow, great! Evolved and progressive humor! Nothing less...

This really shows us poor non-evovolved beings... The richness and depth of tought... The empathy and compassion... Evolved, really... Congrats...


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'll try to keep it brief. I'm 35 and my wife is 33, we are together for 9 years and we have a son of 4. Our relationship is great, we had problems but the relationship itself was never in question. We are both open and honest about our feelings and desires and have absolutely no trust issues.
> 
> ...



No It's a trap.

She's tired of the elephant in the room and "given in".
You act on it, and it will always be an arguing point against you and a convenient excuse in her head for her to separate herself emotionally from you.

You might get your other relationship, but your wife will live in the same house and create difficulties which cost you emotional and stress wise. Things like emergencies and last minute changes just to spite the other woman...and vice versa. You will spend your whole time not over committing to your unicorn, and trying to "handle" things with your wife. Far better you build _your_ own individual 'Mr Strangers" interesting life and education/career.

Here's a couple of things that happened to me:
ex-wife, during dating seemed remotely ok with polyarmory, and previous to engagement said ok to it. An important part of "poly" is communication, so both partners accept the third/fourth etc into the family/relationship, if even temporarily. My gf/fiance/wife decided that the solution therefore was to say she was pro-open/poly relationships, and then just say no whenever it came up ("don't like/trust her","feel pushed out by her/him","we're too much like friends") that way she got to have her target husband and didn't have to share.

ex-gf (post divorce) says "she no for it, but knows that who I am". I made extra powerful effort to include her in everything. Her and other partner spent huge efforts to make life difficult for each other and destablise me. In the end I told the other partner to find her own social life (she was much younger than us) and eventually had to evict her from my life after her distraction over her current gf always killed me, twice, and almost destroyed my company a couple of times. NOW she's gone the gf has withdrawn completely, and recently chucked me from the family. The relationship with the other has also given my daughter the perfect excuse to be an _absolute_ cow.

So tell your partner. Accept that she can land 100 times the number of men and women that you can, just be lowering her standands.
Be prepared to deal with her affairs, now you opened the can of worms.
Work hard to be socially interesting and happy with your own company socially and career wise. Protect your assets, and see that your wife has protected hers separately. This will keep you busy and your wife happy for a while.
Concentrate _solely_ on your main relationship and family, do not under any circumstance engage in EA or PA. Life is too long for such regrets. Learn to direct your interests more constructively, or you WILL regret it.

Since you're going down my path... I'm offering to sell you a slightly worn pair of shoes, to walk those miles. If you're a smart guy, you listen to the map I just gave you, and learn to take pride in your upstandingness, rather than seek the exotic. (and if things fall apart... IFF! she is poly (meet through a poly/open dating site) then try it. Until then take pride in your commitment and virtue - since that seems to work for many people here who have happy lives. (and many of the unhappy, that is what they didn't possess)

--
Oh and since it's her offering...
She's just seeking an acceptable excuse to play the field and find a better partner.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Faithfulness and commitment are noble qualities of a good marriage. I'd like to model and teach that to my children.
Open marriage or swinging doesn't seem synonymous with those values, despite the acclaimed advantages or benefits or my 'ignorance' of the lifestyle


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> And I say that as someone who is probably poly and most definitely kinky, but who has been unwaveringly monogamous for 25 years because feeling owned--utterly and jealously possessed-- by my man is more important to me, perhaps, than anything else about my marriage or my sexuality.
> 
> I might be the rare woman, but then again . . .


This is not so rare and it has beauty in it I agree. But, I'm different. I don't want to own or possess anyone. My view is that love is selfless and I give her freedom to see her return to me over and over. I find beauty in that - when she chooses me even when complete freedom is given.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> It sounds as though your W has done everything in her power to accommodate and cater to your needs, but still hasn't succeeded...


She has done everything, that is true. But, she cannot give me everything, she understands that. It is unfortunate, I know she would like to all of my desires but she can't. I cannot change who I am, I can only choose to repress those desires and I did made that choice. She is worth it. This whole thread is about her - not being okay anymore with me repressing it. 



CuddleBug said:


> This is a test for sure.


It's not a test and if it is a test then we have a major problem because I don't tolerate dishonesty. Tests are dishonest. 

You may call me naive but I value communication and honesty as key virtues for a successful relationship. I have always tried in this and past relationships to create an environment where she would feel safe to open about herself, her desires, her insecurities. I can say that as far as I know, no girlfriend has ever lied to me and I never had any trust issues of any kind. I don't think it's all just chance.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Apexmale said:


> But, you are not trying to prevent divorce, you are just simply trying to evolve the marriage you both currently share.


I liked your post, especially this sentence. Yes, we're evolving and growing. My wife is changing too. She said that she never felt this confident before and my love and support are foundations of that. Perhaps a few examples:

She has a close friendship with her best friend. That too has changed last few years. Her friend is bisexual and has, more than once, stated that she is attracted to my wife and that she would like to 'spice up' our sex. My wife isn't interested in her sexually but, they often do talk about sex and share intimate details. They are even buying and reviewing toys or lingerie together. 

She has an exhibitionist streak in her. She likes sex in public places where there is a chance of being seen, she would like to have sex with unknown people watching or post pictures and videos on line. 

I know that one of her favorite fantasies for masturbating is one where she is a domme - she teases, scorns and beats some poor guy then she denies him everything. I offered since I like to try new things but she declined, it has to be a guy or girl with no emotional attachment. She also said that right now is not interested in pursuing it. 

What I'm trying to say is, non-monogamy is not completely foreign concept to her.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> This is not so rare and it has beauty in it I agree. But, I'm different. I don't want to own or possess anyone. My view is that love is selfless and I give her freedom to see her return to me over and over. I find beauty in that - when she chooses me even when complete freedom is given.


We've had other posts by men who've opened their marriage and have come to realize their wives aren't choosing them any longer once they bond with another man over sex. Especially if that other man has something, anything to offer her that the husband cannot or does not. 

You're on a slippery slope. Your wife is not on the same page as you. That's just my feeling, and the result will be devastating for one of you, I fear.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> She has done everything, that is true. But, she cannot give me everything, she understands that. It is unfortunate, I know she would like to all of my desires but she can't. I cannot change who I am, I can only choose to repress those desires and I did made that choice. She is worth it. *This whole thread is about her - not being okay anymore with me repressing it. *


Frankly, I wouldn't be OK with it, either... If my SO expressed the sort of desires you describe:-


> I'm attracted to non-monogamy lifestyle - different partners, threesomes, sex parties, swinging.


 I would probably call it a day with him because I wouldn't even contemplate satisfying them. 

Think carefully, OP. You're probably not as irreplaceable as you might like to think, and could well battle to find another woman who is as caring and accommodating as your wife.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Since you are already online chatting up other women, are you emotionally connected to any of them?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"You may call me naive but I value communication and honesty as key virtues for a successful relationship."

Did you advise your wife before marriage that you have these proclivities?

It seems as though people who desire to experience sex with multiple partners and also desire to be married are marrying for convenience. That's fine as long as both partners know what they're getting into; but, it can be devastating for a partner who was looking for a traditional marriage.

Maybe you're one of those people who would be better off single.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Apexmale said:


> There's the key, "you seriously doubt...". These type marriages aren't for everyone, very few are capable of sustaining one. These couples don't share the limitations that you do.


I'd be the worst swinger wife ever. If I saw another woman kissing my husband I'd rip her face off.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

italianjob said:


> Wow, great! Evolved and progressive humor! Nothing less...
> 
> This really shows us poor non-evovolved beings... The richness and depth of tought... The empathy and compassion... Evolved, really... Congrats...


When you throw feces at others, some may splash back in your face.

Live and let live - someone else's life choices in this area aren't hurting you, are they?


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> When you throw feces at others, some may splash back in your face.
> 
> Live and let live - someone else's life choices in this area aren't hurting you, are they?


The poster that got this reply didn't throw anything.

Someone else's choices aren't hurting me, but trying to play most clever guy and bullying others hitting below the belt is a behaviour I'll always condemn...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Satya said:


> We've had other posts by men who've opened their marriage and have come to realize their wives aren't choosing them any longer once they bond with another man over sex. Especially *if that other man has something, anything to offer her *that the husband cannot or does not.
> 
> You're on a slippery slope. Your wife is not on the same page as you. That's just my feeling, and the result will be devastating for one of you, I fear.


I think this is the crux of the fear that so many use to argue against open marriages, swinging, or other forms of non-monogamy. The key point of most non-monogamy IS to experience things you cannot in your primary relationship. Those things are usually secondary or recreational, and can't shake a strong relationship with a good foundation. 

Besides, the fear of losing a spouse comes from an ownership perspective most of the time. A spouse isn't a car - _a spouse chooses to by yours because of love and compatibility_. If that doesn't exist in robust form, they probably should move on - and it's not a big loss (but will feel that way for a while, no doubt - and that pain is more about the wrong idea that you don't measure up or are seriously inadequate, which comes from low self-esteem).

So, there is no slippery slope, except when the relationship _already_ has serious problems. IMO, the bigger danger to a lasting relationship is having to deny who you are and suppress your needs - that makes for a dishonest and dysfunctional relationship.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

italianjob said:


> The poster that got this reply didn't throw anything.
> 
> Someone else's choices aren't hurting me, but trying to play most clever guy and bullying others hitting below the belt is a behaviour I'll always condemn...


I know you did not and did not intend to imply you did, but you called out the other poster, who provided the splash back from what was thrown at him by someone else. It was a convenient starting point for my point.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> I think this is the crux of the fear that so many use to argue against open marriages, swinging, or other forms of non-monogamy. The key point of most non-monogamy IS to experience things you cannot in your primary relationship. Those things are usually secondary or recreational, and can't shake a strong relationship with a good foundation.
> 
> Besides, the fear of losing a spouse comes from an ownership perspective most of the time. A spouse isn't a car - _a spouse chooses to by yours because of love and compatibility_. If that doesn't exist in robust form, they probably should move on - and it's not a big loss (but will feel that way for a while, no doubt - and that pain is more about the wrong idea that you don't measure up or are seriously inadequate, which comes from low self-esteem).
> 
> So, there is no slippery slope, except when the relationship _already_ has serious problems. IMO, the bigger danger to a lasting relationship is having to deny who you are and suppress your needs - that makes for a dishonest and dysfunctional relationship.


MBH, I don't have an issue with the OPs decision (choice) to have an open marriage, even if I personally do not agree with that lifestyle. I am not an expert on open marriage because of that, hence I'd defer to your thoughts on it or to another poster that shares that lifestyle with a spouse.

What I see is that his wife is not of the same "ilk" as him. They aren't on the same page. Could he convince her to try that kind of lifestyle? Obviously yes, it seems from his words that she knows she is inadequate and wants him to feel fulfilled, even if it's not just with her. I don't know this for sure, but I get a very BAD feeling about a scenario where a woman that does not inherently believe in this lifestyle, is introduced to it by a spouse, and because of that thinks to herself, "well it's what he wants and I want him to be happy. I'll just be holding him back if I say no, so I'll try it."

No one owns another in a relationship. That part I agree with. Just because I'm monogamous does not mean I feel or am owned by my SO, however what I offer him is for him alone and I've chosen to make what I offer exclusive to him. He's done the same for me. We both understand that's a gift given from each of us that shouldn't be squandered.

Sorry if I'm not being very clear in what I'm trying to express. I'm not saying that the OP shouldn't seek open marriage, I am questioning whether his wife is the kind of woman that will be suitable to share in that life style. Based on how the OP describes her, I feel strongly that either one of the following can happen: 1.) She'll get attached to another man, then we'll see OP back here telling us how she's "breaking the rules of the open marriage," or 2.) We'll see the OP back here wondering why his wife is not herself - whether because she's depressed, upset, angry, suicidal, jealous, (insert another state of being that shows all is not well in the marriage).

That's it in a nutshell. As always, I hope that my concerns are unfounded because I never want to see people hurt, but my concerns are nonetheless, my truth.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

@Satya, as usual, a thoughtful and balanced view. I now better understand your concern regarding the OP's situation. Perhaps they aren't on the same page now, or may not be if they pursue this, but it does sound like they are trying to openly and honestly figure this out, which is more than many couples can manage. They are both showing a caring attitude towards what the other wants and needs, and communicating to find a workable answer - that is commendable, regardless of what they decide.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> I'd be the worst swinger wife ever. If I saw another woman kissing my husband I'd rip her face off.


Yea, because that is the adult thing to do of course. Funny how the woman would "get her faced ripped off" and your husband gets the free pass.

A husband with a free pass... is in an open marriage.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Apexmale said:


> Yea, because that is the adult thing to do of course. Funny how the woman would "get her faced ripped off" and your husband gets the free pass.
> 
> A husband with a free pass... is in an open marriage.


Free pass? LOL. Doubt it. >


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> Free pass? LOL. Doubt it. >


In your previous post, the OW would get physically assaulted while there was no mention of your husband. I assumed since there was no mention, then there would be no consequence.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Apexmale said:


> In your previous post, the OW would get physically assaulted while there was no mention of your husband. I assumed since there was no mention, then there would be no consequence.


Couldn't tell...didn't want to get banned.


0


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Apexmale said:


> Yea, because that is the adult thing to do of course. Funny how the woman would "*get her faced ripped off*" and your husband gets the free pass.
> 
> A husband with a free pass... is in an open marriage.


But, it would be the _more evolved _thing to do!


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> But, it would be the _more evolved _thing to do!


Only if thats what both of them would want. Not what everyone else would want.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> I know you did not and did not intend to imply you did, but you called out the other poster, who provided the splash back from what was thrown at him by someone else. It was a convenient starting point for my point.


Let's agree to disagree about things being "thrown at him", I think Evinrude was calling him out about his "evolved" theory, and frankly, I don't think he was wrong. 

"Live and let live" IMO is "I do my thing because I find it works for such and such reason, if you don't agree with this you do your thing" while his position was more "I'm evolved and enlighten and all you monogamous people are just a bunch of cavemen".

IDK if this was his intention, I know it sounded like that to me and Evinrude's reply looked like it sounded like that to him too.

That's why I found his pick at Evinrude distasteful and under the belt and why I called him out,

I have nothing against people who choose to live a different lifestyle, I have a lot of friends who tried something similar, but to tell you the truth, I have yet to witness a couple succeeding in the long run (like being together after more than two or three years of the new lifestyle).

I must say that all of the couples who tried this that I know had one of the partners who really wanted it and the other who gave up and tried it to please the first partner, so maybe what's needed is that both parties are very much convinced about what they're doing.

In OPs case I think he needs to be real sure his wife really wants this and is not just trying to please...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Married but Happy said:


> Obviously, you know NOTHING about how swinging works, which isn't too surprising as most people are clueless unless they've tried it or done some real investigation. You may be a little closer (but not much) when it comes to open relationships. But, your imagery is great! I had a good laugh, so thank you.


Her point is that swinging doesn't work. Look how many swinging men are in the infidelity section trying to get their wife back. There are zero swinging women in the infidelity section to my knowledge. It doesn't take a genius, only gut instinct for a woman to know her man isn't much into her if he allows her to be plowed by another man. As a matter of fact, she probably knows what men are called that watch their wife getting laid by other men. On top of that there is a great chance any other man is going to be better in bed. Just by being different and throw in a loving attitude and there you go. Oops, I meant there she goes.

By the same token, a woman that doesn't mind her husband having sex with another woman is going against millions of years of biology. Unless, she truly doesn't care.

What comes across in all these threads, and real life, is that husbands are pimping out their wives to get a variety of women. We all know how pimps feel about their stable.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Her point is that swinging doesn't work. Look how many swinging men are in the infidelity section trying to get their wife back. There are zero swinging women in the infidelity section to my knowledge. It doesn't take a genius, only gut instinct for a woman to know her man isn't much into her if he allows her to be plowed by another man. As a matter of fact, she probably knows what men are called that watch their wife getting laid by other men. On top of that there is a great chance any other man is going to be better in bed. Just by being different and throw in a loving attitude and there you go. Oops, I meant there she goes.
> 
> By the same token, a woman that doesn't mind her husband having sex with another woman is going against millions of years of biology. Unless, she truly doesn't care.
> 
> What comes across in all these threads, and real life, is that husbands are pimping out their wives to get a variety of women. We all know how pimps feel about their stable.


Well said.

This is why my SO would be history if he so much as hinted at this sort of thing. I would instantly lose attraction for him and he would cease to be a man to me.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Her point is that swinging doesn't work. Look how many swinging men are in the infidelity section trying to get their wife back. There are zero swinging women in the infidelity section to my knowledge. It doesn't take a genius, only gut instinct for a woman to know her man isn't much into her if he allows her to be plowed by another man. As a matter of fact, she probably knows what men are called that watch their wife getting laid by other men. On top of that there is a great chance any other man is going to be better in bed. Just by being different and throw in a loving attitude and there you go. Oops, I meant there she goes.
> 
> By the same token, a woman that doesn't mind her husband having sex with another woman is going against millions of years of biology. Unless, she truly doesn't care.
> 
> What comes across in all these threads, and real life, is that husbands are pimping out their wives to get a variety of women. We all know how pimps feel about their stable.


Her point is wrong, as is yours, and states a lot of erroneous ideas. Yes, you see the failures here in the infidelity section. You also see far more failures amongst supposedly monogamous couples. You don't see all the successes, obviously. And research bears out the fact that swingers have as good or better marriages that are more likely to last and be happier and more satisfying. The negative myths and stereotypes about swingers are simply that: myths and stereotypes.

We can both argue our views endlessly, and never convince each other even with facts and peer-reviewed research. It is still interesting to try, though! Merry Christmas.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm not wounded by the "ex wife" comment, although I do feel that was something directed to do so.

I was most definitely pointing out that describing an open marriage as "more evolved" is pretty ridiculous. 

It serves no purpose to argue with people who are swingers and consider themselves "apex males", since we clearly think far differently and would likely agree on very little. 

I still think the op is considering opening a Pandora's box.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> I'm not wounded by the "ex wife" comment, although I do feel that was something directed to do so.
> 
> I was most definitely pointing out that describing an open marriage as "more evolved" is pretty ridiculous.
> 
> ...


I wasn't trying to "wound" anyone. I was using the mindset example as many have tried to make here, that moving in a different marriage direction will result in divorce. Well, keeping a mindset and refusing to move in a certain direction can end in divorce just as easily. 

Again, marriage is about companionship, not about ownership. And if anyone refuses to discuss thier partners desires, even thier hidden desires, they may very well find themselves without companionship and alone in the marriage. That's the point where everyone soon finds out that they didn't own thier partner after all. 

No one has to feel good about the direction their marriage takes, but they do need to communicate about it then decide whether it needs to continue or not. Happiness in a marriage doesn't come from how anyone feel's, it comes from the progress both partners make together in thier marriage.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> And research bears out the fact that swingers have as good or better marriages that are more likely to last and be happier and more satisfying. The negative myths and stereotypes about swingers are simply that: myths and stereotypes.


Please link to these research findings.

That's a huge claim.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

snerg said:


> Please link to these research findings.
> 
> That's a huge claim.


I dont know much about swinger research, but I found this article to be informative and I make reference to it sometimes as introductory. 

My wife and I are not swingers, but we know couples who are and there are more of them than most people really realize....


http://www.lovepanky.com/sensual-tease/obsession/do-and-donts-of-swinging


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

snerg said:


> Please link to these research findings.
> 
> That's a huge claim.


Not a problem. I like to be able to back up what I say, and I prefer peer-reviewed studies or reports on such. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/134956/the-swinging-paradigm.pdf

Why Polyamorous Couples Divorce Less Than Monogamous Couples | Mr. Mike Hatcher | YourTango.

Even if you disagree with the studies (I understand if you do, but would also appreciate a link to peer-reviewed research in credible publications or on credible sites to back your views - I will check them out), these make for interesting reading, and can provide some useful ideas even for the committed monogamists.

Edit: Add two more specific to open marriages:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201408/inside-look-open-marriages

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...-open-relationships-happier?collection=169075


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Apexmale said:


> I dont know much about swinger research, but I found this article to be informative and I make reference to it sometimes as introductory.
> 
> My wife and I are not swingers, but we know couples who are and there are more of them than most people really realize....
> 
> ...


Thanks.

This is more of a "how to" than a research site.

I'm looking for a site that has done actual research on open marriage and swinging and the "positive effects" these life styles can bring to a relationship which would outweigh the negative.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Not a problem. I like to be able to back up what I say, and I prefer peer-reviewed studies or reports on such.
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/134956/the-swinging-paradigm.pdf
> 
> ...



Thank you


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Augh.. op.. triggery for me, my ex wanted to pursue threesomes with friends of mine. For a time I went along to get along, but I was gutted. It wrecked us and now he is ex. 

Very real risk.

Plus your baby boy....

We didnt have kids. You do. There is no way I would ever expose a child to a swinger lifestyle.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> I could handle it if my husband decided to have other sexual partners. I'd have to work really, really hard if he decided to have a relationship (emotional as well as sexual) with another partner. But those aren't hard limits for me (as far as I know). I'd be willing to work with him on those scenarios if he came to me and asked. However, the moment he stopped owning me, the moment he could tolerate another man in my life, emotionally or physically, would be the day I'd die inside, the day I knew we were done. And I say that as someone who is probably poly and most definitely kinky, but who has been unwaveringly monogamous for 25 years because feeling owned--utterly and jealously possessed-- by my man is more important to me, perhaps, than anything else about my marriage or my sexuality.
> 
> I might be the rare woman, but then again . . .





TheStranger said:


> This is not so rare and it has beauty in it I agree. But, I'm different. I don't want to own or possess anyone. My view is that love is selfless and I give her freedom to see her return to me over and over. I find beauty in that - when she chooses me even when complete freedom is given.


I understand that possessing your wife isn't your desire--what I was asking you to consider, based on what your wife expressed, was that SHE might desire to feel owned. She is expressing a willingness to try growing beyond that desire because she wants to be able to meet a need of yours that has gone unmet thus far. 

Let me ask you this: is part of your need, as a poly person, to be with a partner who is also poly? Do you need her to exercise her freedom to be with others, or would you feel just as fulfilled if you entered into other relationships, and she chose to remain monogamous to you?

I can't remember if she expressed a desire to also explore sex with other partners, or if she is simply offering you the freedom to do so. You've already said that you would give her the same freedom, but do you think that she just assumes that's the way it would work?

I think mono poly marriages have one of the hardest incompatibilities to negotiate. The fact that you've been happy in your marriage for this long is a testament to your commitment, and the honesty and communication you have with your wife. The partner who is living the lifestyle that is against their nature is the partner who works the hardest. Sometimes that work is made very easy because the partner is so worth it. It sounds to me like your wife is worth it to you--you're able to live a monogamous lifestyle and be content. 

Whether your wife can live a poly lifestyle is uncharted territory. She is expressing that she is willing to do the work: but that does not mean she will succeed. It could be that you try this, and she honestly cannot abide it. The hope is that she could tell you this, and that you could go back to living a monogamous lifestyle with no harm done. But there are no guarantees: she will risk losing what she has now with you. Does she fully appreciate this, I wonder? I think it would do her good to reach out to the mono poly community and talk to partners in her position. There are great success stories, and there are stories of regret. 

I have no way of knowing whether your wife is doing this out of a desire to see you fulfilled, or because she herself is feeling unfulfilled and is hoping that allowing you to live out your poly orientation will allow you to better meet her needs. I can honestly say that I have offered the same to my husband purely out of love and a desire to see every last part of his body and soul served and fulfilled. I understand poly because I think I am oriented that way; I don't see it as a threat to intimacy. Like you, giving him the freedom and then having him choose to come back to me above all others would be a beautiful feeling. 

My husbands answer to my offer has been "no." Not because he isn't curious. Not because he doesn't see the appeal. Not because he doesn't understand the poly orientation. But because he isn't willing to risk losing what we have, even if that means all his needs are not met to the highest degree. And that makes me feel like I'm doing a good job, in his mind, as a wife and a partner at meeting his needs _to the highest level that I possibly can._ And I still feel like he's chosen me.


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## rainyday01 (Dec 24, 2015)

So you are okay then with your wife screwing around on you then? What's good for the goose is good for the gander after all. If this is a double standard and you want all the fun for yourself, you're in for a surprise. Perhaps she's found interest in another man which is what sparks her willingness to experiment and give you the opportunity to have your openness. Maybe you're not satisfying her and she wants to have guilt free sex with another man....which can only happen if she knows you're doing it also. Just speaking from a woman's perspective on the situation you described. Have fun sharing your wife.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> Well, she is sick of the feeling that her needs are completely being met while mine have not. She also feels bad that she cannot be everything that I need when I have done that and much more for her. She wants me to have a fulfilling sex life and she no longer wants monogamy because of that. She feels that monogamy is not fair to me. *She feels that our relationship is strong enough for this, she trusts me, my judgement and that it won't affect our sex life.
> *
> I admit I'm excited at the possibilities *but it's also clear that she will be hurt if I follow through with this.* She said that hurt will pass, it's her problem and she just needs time to adjust to the new situation and I need to just do it. She believes we will both be happier overall in the end.
> 
> Right now I feel that I'm in a catch 22 - whatever I decide to do she will be hurt and, more importantly I feel like a jerk for being me. I'm not sure what to do here at all...


I read through your original post again, and I kinda feel your wife is giving you a dare and not permission. Besides, you know she'll be hurt, even if it is temporarily, plus swinging will most definitely change the dynamics of your relationship with her.
Even if swinging has 'benefits' or works, think it through thoroughly...or just leave the idea as a fantasy.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

> Let me ask you this: is part of your need, as a poly person, to be with a partner who is also poly? Do you need her to exercise her freedom to be with others, or would you feel just as fulfilled if you entered into other relationships, and she chose to remain monogamous to you?


No, she doesn't need to exercise her freedom. It's her choice. I cannot hold her to be faithful to me if I decide to step outside. I don't like double standards.



> You've already said that you would give her the same freedom, but do you think that she just assumes that's the way it would work?


She is offering freedom to me with possibility that she might want it as well one day.




> It sounds to me like your wife is worth it to you--you're able to live a monogamous lifestyle and be content.


She is and I am content. She is the one who stirred the whole thing. To be honest it took me a whole month before I took her seriously. I thought she was just joking around.



> I have no way of knowing whether your wife is doing this out of a desire to see you fulfilled, or because she herself is feeling unfulfilled and is hoping that allowing you to live out your poly orientation will allow you to better meet her needs.


She wants to see me fulfilled. As far as I know, she is very happy with me and our relationship. She frequently tells me that our relationship exceeded all her expectations... She seems very happy. Will she remain that way after I decide is something that worries me. Hence the thread... 

We already had the talk where I said that I'm closer to declining her offer than accepting it. She begged me to reconsider.

Thank you for this post. It's very thoughtful and beautifully written. I do admire beauty when I find it.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

rainyday01 said:


> Just speaking from a woman's perspective on the situation you described. Have fun sharing your wife.


There is no double standard and your questions imply that she has hidden agenda. My wife is not dishonest or conniving. That much I'm sure.



bb-jay said:


> Besides, you know she'll be hurt, even if it is temporarily, plus swinging will most definitely change the dynamics of your relationship with her.


What I was trying to say is that she is hurting either way. She is sure that she will adjust to me having a friends with benefits situation far easier than continue living knowing that I feel unfulfilled. I'm not so sure.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Merry Christmas everyone!!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I know we have a philosophical debate with blogs. myths, articles, surveys and research being thrown around....whatever.

Sorry, all of that isn't part of the central issue. Your wife's suggestion was made out of marital strife.


> Well, she is sick of the feeling that her needs are completely being met while mine have not. She also feels bad that she cannot be everything that I need when I have done that and much more for her. She wants me to have a fulfilling sex life and she no longer wants monogamy because of that. She feels that monogamy is not fair to me. She feels that our relationship is strong enough for this, she trusts me, my judgement and that it won't affect our sex life.


Sorry, I don't buy it, it isn't this simple. Also, do your research. There's a ton of confirmation bias going on in this thread. If you research in a neutral manner, not to prove your desire for an open marriage, you'll see both sides have problems.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> What I was trying to say is that she is hurting either way. *She is sure that she will adjust to me having a friends with benefits situation far easier than continue living knowing that I feel unfulfilled*. I'm not so sure.


LOL...

Whatever dude. Swing, don't swing. It's your marriage and your life. Maybe it will work. Probably not.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

It will change your relationship with your wife forever. There is no guarantee the change will not damage your marriage more than it is already being damaged by your not getting as many flavors of sex as you would like.

For people who want to argue that it is bad to "fear" change, and that "more mature" couples face all challenges presented to them, I would suggest that crossing into the swinging territory is similar to playing Russian Roulette. Most of the time you just get a rush from not being shot in the head. But once you're shot, the game is over.

The probability is that swinging will bring about the demise of your marriage more swiftly than if you employ other solutions to your sexual frustrations which don't involve 3rd and 4th people.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> There is no double standard and your questions imply that she has hidden agenda. My wife is not dishonest or conniving. That much I'm sure.


Interesting emotional response. She didn't imply your wife was conniving or had an agenda. People change and grow. What works for you, may make her go seek out someone who is equal or lower drive who doesn't like your kink. People are pointing out, listen to the women, be prepared for her to decide to opt out and swing as well. Many of your posts have the tinge of "I have fun, she's going to stay monogamous."


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

TheStranger said:


> No, she doesn't need to exercise her freedom. It's her choice. I cannot hold her to be faithful to me if I decide to step outside. I don't like double standards.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tell her you would be more comfortable if she tried out a few men before you started exploring new women.

Be sure to ask her to make a list of possible sex partners she thinks she would enjoy being with.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> She is and I am content. She is the one who stirred the whole thing. To be honest it took me a whole month before I took her seriously. I thought she was just joking around.
> 
> If she is content then why would she want to change anything? Obviously she sees you are not content either. The more you describe your dynamic the more I believe she is offering you bait with ulterior motives that only she knows.
> 
> ...


The bolded part seems rather auspicious. She *begged* you to reconsider? Why didn't she just take you at your word? She seems to not be neutral, but really *wants* you to step out.

Since this is already a desire of yours, she knows that all you need is a little push.

I think your marriage might already be headed for the cr*pper, and she knows it...you just haven't deciphered the coded message yet.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Op, you are the only one who knows your wife. If you feel it can work, try it. A traditional marriage has no more a chance at success than a non-traditional marriage. Success in both types is 50/50. 

There are a lot of people here that oppose open-marriages while in complete acceptance of same-sex marriages. 

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Apexmale said:


> Op, you are the only one who knows your wife. If you feel it can work, try it. A traditional marriage has no more a chance at success than a non-traditional marriage. Success in both types is 50/50.


True.



> There are a lot of people here that oppose open-marriages while in complete acceptance of same-sex marriages.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


This is a terrible comparison. Some of the same people, in your example, would and do dislike same sex open marriages as well. These people dislike all forms of open marriages same sex or hetero.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

TheStranger said:


> She has done everything, that is true. But, she cannot give me everything, she understands that. It is unfortunate, I know she would like to all of my desires but she can't. I cannot change who I am, I can only choose to repress those desires and I did made that choice. She is worth it. This whole thread is about her - not being okay anymore with me repressing it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Naive doesn't even scratch the surface. Totally blind and ignorant of the female species. You're trying to apply male logic to women. You're projecting your male biology on to your wife.

You should read MMSLP and WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS MEN ARE FROM MARS. You're driving your family over a cliff.

By the way, I scanned the first study another poster linked. It totally refuted its own findings by stating there was no way to establish a reliable population to study. That the people that participated would naturally have a motive to skew the results etc.

When your wife comes home all starry eyed dripping another mans jizz tell us all about how great it is. This happened to a teacher at my sons school. When a lover brought her home, her husband beat her up and they divorced. I guess something broke in him. Her next husband commited suicide.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Here's the problem everyone is stepping around. Open marriages work well, just like TRADITIONAL ones, when everyone is all in. She is not all in. She feels as if she is disappointing her husband. Now, let's be real. We always talk about oppression, bullying, emotional abuse, stress and poor communication. She went from absolutely "no," too begging him to have an affair. To me, it means it was constantly brought up to the point she has caved in. No matter the words she used, she doesn't want an open marriage she wants him to be sexually satisfied. 


Anyone that knows swingers or people in an actual open marriage, I know both, understand this is a SMALL PART of why the relationship works. I've seen a some work, I've seen some fail. The few that have failed sounded much like this one. They opened the marriage and the dude found someone who wanted to be monogamous and they ended up in divorce. I've seen them work as well.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It would be nice if the OP's wife joined and told us her views in her own words. Then everyone here could pressure and cajole her until she caves into the majority view, and convince her that her husband doesn't love her and she's already been cheating on him if she is actually fine with her offer.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> It would be nice if the OP's wife joined and told us her views in her own words. Then everyone here could pressure and cajole her until she caves into the majority view, and convince her that her husband doesn't love her and she's already been cheating on him if she is actually fine with her offer.


LOL, your irony is funny.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Despite my intense aversion to doing so - here goes.

This oft quoted comment regarding the 50% divorce rate - is ludicrous. 

There are MANY factors driving divorce rates. Education level and age at the time of marriage are two big ones. 

Marital outcomes aren't nearly as random as 'some' folks like to pretend. 

That said - I do agree with the point that staying married is very different than being happily married.





Apexmale said:


> Op, you are the only one who knows your wife. If you feel it can work, try it. A traditional marriage has no more a chance at success than a non-traditional marriage. Success in both types is 50/50.
> 
> There are a lot of people here that oppose open-marriages while in complete acceptance of same-sex marriages.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Well, *she is sick of the feeling that her needs are completely being met while mine have not. She also feels bad that she cannot be everything that I need when I have done that and much more for her. She wants me to have a fulfilling sex life and she no longer wants monogamy because of that.* She feels that monogamy is not fair to me. She feels that our relationship is strong enough for this, she trusts me, my judgement and that it won't affect our sex life.


I'm afraid women really _aren't_ this self-sacrificing / selfless, OP, and I would question the _real_ motives of _any_ woman suggesting / condoning this. 

I think the OP could be so wrapped up in his sexual fantasies that he might be missing something very vital that his W is actually telling him... Be careful of what you wish for...


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Cosmos said:


> I'm afraid women really _aren't_ this self-sacrificing / selfless, OP, and I would question the _real_ motives of _any_ woman suggesting / condoning this.
> 
> I think the OP could be so wrapped up in his sexual fantasies that he could be missing something very vital that his W is actually telling him... Be careful of what you wish for...


I think he's already too wrapped up in them and is already missing what she is telling him.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Totally blind and ignorant of the female species. You're trying to apply male logic to women.


By your logic there are no women into open marriages, polyamory, swinging, etc. There are all just male fantasies and nothing else? I try not to do this sweeping gender generalizations. You know - see the tree, not the entire forest.



> When your wife comes home all starry eyed dripping another mans jizz tell us all about how great it is.


I know we disagree but, can I please ask you to be respectful? thanks.



Cosmos said:


> I'm afraid women really _aren't_ this self-sacrificing / selfless, OP, and I would question the _real_ motives of _any_ woman suggesting / condoning this.


Why is so hard to believe when I say that my wife is not dishonest person? I'm not questioning her motives. Why should I when we talk openly?



phillybeffandswiss said:


> No matter the words she used, she doesn't want an open marriage she wants him to be sexually satisfied.


It is true of course. If she was for open marriage then there would be no need for this thread. We both understand that this is incompatibility issue. What is a compromise here??

Some poster before mentioned the solution where we are not physical with other people but we do include them in some ways... I don't know, maybe that is the compromise...


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> By your logic there are no women into open marriages, polyamory, swinging, etc. There are all just male fantasies and nothing else? I try not to do this sweeping gender generalizations. You know - see the tree, not the entire forest.


There are both men and women who are into open marriages, polyamory, swinging, etc. However, in your OP you told us that:-



> She told me she cannot share me with anyone.


No one simply goes from this to saying that it's OK for their spouse to step outside the marriage to fulfil his fantasies with other women... It doesn't add up.


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

Dare I say it if you agree you will be playing with fire and getting burned. A marriage is between TWO people for so many reasons. Anyone who says otherwise in my opinion, is living in denial. Whether permission is granted or not it is adultery.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"It is true of course. If she was for open marriage then there would be no need for this thread. We both understand that this is incompatibility issue. What is a compromise here??"

One of the reasons people marry is because they believe the marriage will provide a safety net for them in life. Having each other's back, so to say. Having someone with whom to share their highs and their lows.

When another person is involved in the marriage, there goes the safety net for at least one of the partners.

You could try prostitutes for your desire for diversity. They may not pose as much of a threat to the marriage so your wife may not fear the demise of her safety net. Of course, the fact that her husband is using prostitutes may want her to retch.

I do feel that your wife is testing you. No one goes from not wanting to share to begging for the show to commence. You need to research her change of heart.

You never answered my question regarding if you told your wife of your desires before marriage.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> By your logic there are no women into open marriages, polyamory, swinging, etc. There are all just male fantasies and nothing else? I try not to do this sweeping gender generalizations. You know - see the tree, not the entire forest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks this says a ton. You keep accusing people of saying your wife is being dishonest, when the suggestion hasn't been made. YOU wrote her words and then immediately remove the context when you argue. Your wife was ADAMANT, by your own words, about not sharing you. Suddenly she is begging and telling you to go ahead. You have WOMEN telling you this is not the case and you feel they are calling your wife a liar and dishonest.

The sad and funny part is, it always involves making you see your wife having sex with another guy. Interesting how this image makes you get nasty and change what people have said.

You do understand that she can be TOTALLY HONEST about wanting to make you happy, but DESPISE the idea at the same time? That makes her CONFLICTED not dishonest. This is what people are telling you. The easy way to understand is, when you make someone compromise their ethics or morals it will most likely fundamentally change their behavior.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> No one simply goes from this to saying that it's OK for their spouse to step outside the marriage to fulfil his fantasies with other women... It doesn't add up.





Blondilocks said:


> No one goes from not wanting to share to begging for the show to commence. You need to research her change of heart.


The change of hearth isn't sudden. She told me she can't share me early in the relationship. Of course, I brought it up. She told me she changed. At that time she was feeling insecure about us. She doesn't feel insecure anymore. She doesn't believe this could damage our relationship anymore. 



> You never answered my question regarding if you told your wife of your desires before marriage.


We're in common-law marriage. So - no ceremony, no vows except what we said to each other. She knew about them before our son.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Op, do you accept there is a possibility she is in denial?

Also, you never answered the question about emotional connections to the women you chat with online.

Oh, you've never put a ring on her... Interesting. Why...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> Of course, I brought it up.


Yep, exactly what I said earlier. Then go for it and hopefully it works for you.

Peace.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Op, do you accept there is a possibility she is in denial?


Denial about what?



> Also, you never answered the question about emotional connections to the women you chat with online.


I view them as friends, it never went deeper than that.



> Oh, you've never put a ring on her... Interesting. Why...


She's against marriage ceremonies or any ceremonies. I'm ambivalent about it. If she wanted it, I would have done it for her. Still, I'm happier that I've managed to skip the whole thing. It's a nightmare to organize a proper wedding.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Denial that she will be ok with the lifestyle.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> She has done everything, that is true. But, she cannot give me everything, she understands that. It is unfortunate, I know she would like to all of my desires but she can't. I cannot change who I am, I can only choose to repress those desires and I did made that choice. She is worth it. This whole thread is about her - not being okay anymore with me repressing it.


It's nice she is taking your feelings into account.

I'm totally pro-polyarmory, and against the possession/ownership of others....

so listen hard, when I say: "now it is your turn to man up and grow up and honor her needs, and prove you can be the singularly devoted man". The long term benefit will outweigh the short term, especially if you end up (and the chances are enormously high) with a second woman who isn't so giving ... you MUST ask yourself this in an open relationship: "Why does this other man/woman want to be with me when I'm already committed". Very few times is it good news.
Keep it in your pants, being uncompromised is a bit like virginity, you don't get it back if you change your mind.

And this coming from a person who is very pro-polyamory, who in the last poly-meetup I went to got called "professor" because I had been in long-term polyamory relationships for most of my life.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

OP, the type of open communication that I perceive you and your wife share is probably not the norm. From what you describe, it appears to me that you've got deep, two-way intimacy and transparency. You know and trust one another deeply, there is much understanding, and and where there is not understanding, there is acceptance. 

If I'm right about this, then I have no doubts that your wife is being honest with you. The sort of bond that you get with someone with this type of intimacy can make it hard to cope with areas where you know your spouse isn't getting a need met. I don't think you've pushed her, but she is aware of and accepts your poly orientation . . . and every day she is also aware that you are the one who has put his needs aside for the health of the relationship. When you are full of gratitude and love and trust, you don't just forget what your partner has sacrificed for you, even when they do not ever mention it. Even when they are happy. Even when they are not asking your for a thing. The drive to please, to serve, to always make it better for that person only intensifies with your own happiness and contentment. 

So it does not trouble me at all that she once said, "I could never . . . " and now says, "Please do this . . . " In a way, your need has become her need because of the type of intimacy I perceive the two of you have cultivated. It's not a common type of intimacy, IMO, in marriage. It changes you. It makes it very difficult to set boundaries with your partner, because doing so actually affects your own happiness in ways that setting boundaries isn't supposed to do. And it leaves you completely and utterly vulnerable. 

I feel like your wife feels when it comes to wanting my husband to be completely fulfilled, to have every need met, even at the expense of my own. I truly believe that the way to my own complete fulfillment is through his own. I arrived at this place because of the sort of intimacy we practice. I have lost the ability to set boundaries on what I will accept. 

But if your wife is really and truly of monogamous orientation, then YOU must not lose sight of this unalterable fact. In truth, you might do well to ask yourself--and discuss with her--whether you are better able to make this decision for her than she is to make it for herself. 

And you, of course, must be honest with yourself and her about how much your need to relate to others emotionally and sexually is a factor in your happiness and fulfillment. It could be that you tell her she will simply have to accept your decision not to open up the marriage, that you will bear the burden of her discomfort with the situation, that you are happier having an unmet need than you would be with her having an unmet need. 

After all, since of of you is poly and one of you is mono, this is the way that it MUST be. ONE of you will have that unmet need. 

It could be that you tell her that you can no longer deny your poly side. It could be that you admit to her that she is right, that it will do damage to your marriage to continue living a mono lifestyle, and that opening the marriage could be the only way to save it. 

It could also be that a double standard is what she, as a mono person, needs. If she would only be with others because she thought it would add to your comfort, the violation of her core principals about who she is would be destructive to her sense of self, and therefore to your marriage. (I would need the double standard. I would need my husband to accept that he would have to request and enforce that double standard . . . and like you, I don't think he would. He would never believe in it, I think.) 

It could also be that your wife is not mono after all. 

All I know for sure is that you have much exploring and communicating to do with your wife. And each of you have a lot to do on your own. You surely won't find the answers on this forum, or any other.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> It could also be that a double standard is what she, as a mono person, needs.


I wonder... This sentence has given me a lot of thought. When I think about it, the subject of her being with others and me being okay with it always made her a bit upset. She is not upset when we talk about me being with others. 

I wonder... It could very well be that she is just like you. She wants to be mine above everything else - owned. I don't understand this feeling completely. I need to talk about it with her.



> It could also be that your wife is not mono after all.


Most probably, like everything else in life, it's not black and white but a spectrum. A spectrum worth exploring.



> All I know for sure is that you have much exploring and communicating to do with your wife. And each of you have a lot to do on your own. You surely won't find the answers on this forum, or any other.


For the time being, we will do just that. We're in no rush anywhere. This forum and this thread did provide me some valuable information and some fun. 

Thank you for getting it.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

I just read through your other threads and it sounds like you have had sexual issues for years with your wife. I have no comment on the open marriage question, but I do have some experience with orgasm difficulties, for different reasons, but some of what I have used to help my problem may help yours. 

First and most important - take orgasms off the table. Stop trying to make her orgasm, and stop beating yourself up and her over it. Your ONLY goal should be to provide her with pleasure, to help her to relax, and to help her to feel totally loved and safe with you (both emotionally and physically).

Concentrate on these 3 things and rest will fall in place. 

Some things that helped me and some resources:

Tantric sex - specifically this yoni massage

Instructions to giving a yoni massage

Get this book - pay attention to the tips. Read with your wife.
Book: Women's Anatomy of Arousal | Intimate Arts Center | Intimate Arts Center

Sensate focus exercises. Also get books on sensory massages and touching exercises. Concentrate on helping her to relax and get pleasure from being touched and caressed. No orgasm pressure at all, just pleasuring her - that should be your goal.
Dr. Sari Locker: Sex Advice:Orgasm, Ejaculation, Erection, Kissing, Oral Sex, Sexual Problems, Sexual Positions, Sex Life Variety, Penis, Safer Sex, and Much More

Have her hormones checked by a doctor who will check them individually. Look for doctors who do bio- identical hormone therapy. Her hormones may be all out of whack. Mine were - and fixing them helped me regain the ability to orgasm that I had lost.
SEXY HORMONES for WOMEN | Women's Health | Articles | Magazine

Kegals, kegals kegals - she should do them a lot and often. Research it - she needs to do them right to get the benefit. Sometimes doing kegals during sex tips me to orgasm when I am having a hard time reaching one. Can't emphasize this one enough. 
https://www.sharecare.com/health/sex-orgasm/how-kegel-exercise-help-orgasm

Find a good sex therapist. Your lack of self esteem and confidence is not helping your situation. That comes from within, not from others. You got lots of your own work to do on yourself to help get your relationship on a healthier path. A healthier path for the two of you should be your goal before embarking on any other paths

Good luck.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

mary35 said:


> I just read through your other threads and it sounds like you have had sexual issues for years with your wife. I have no comment on the open marriage question, but I do have some experience with orgasm difficulties, for different reasons, but some of what I have used to help my problem may help yours.
> 
> First and most important - take orgasms off the table. Stop trying to make her orgasm, and stop beating yourself up and her over it. Your ONLY goal should be to provide her with pleasure, to help her to relax, and to help her to feel totally loved and safe with you (both emotionally and physically).


:iagree:

Imagine waking up NOT in the mood and your wife comes along and FORCES you to orgasm. You would not enjoy it that much and it would also extinguish the possibility of having any desire for her for a period of time afterwards. 

There is nothing worse than a husband that insists on his wife having an orgasm when HE wants her to have one. 

The only appropriate use for a forced orgasm is in a BDSM situation. An example might be a couple in an open relationship headed to an swingers party. She may force him to have several orgasms just prior to going to the event to make him appear impotent so that she can claim she needs "extra attention" while he will not be able to enjoy anything and be humiliated throughout the evening, but he will still want her to be happy. 

Sounds as if you may have unwittingly created this scenario in your house by trying to force your wife to enjoy herself. Meanwhile she still wants you to be happy. 

Regards,
Badsanta


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

She may have started the relationship traditionally. BUT, falling in love involves anticipation of all sorts. I believe she had interest in your lifestyle but had a sense of danger regarding social barriers that we've seen plenty of in most of these comments. As she committed to you, the anticipation of heading off in a new direction , a new life, where everything is strange, had an absolute appeal. When someone senses danger, their defenses are up. She has had enough time and exposure to your lifestyle to have seen that the dangers and risks she had (which are the same fears a lot of other members here have) were manufactured. You have become a source of pleasure and she has been given access to the parts of her that had been repressed or denied. She may not have jumped in with both feet, but you have allowed her to move away from any restrictions society may have placed on her as a wife. She has now been able to let go since there is nothing less natural than being hesitant.

Do what feels right to both of you and not necessarily what the majority does. Only dead fish go with the flow.


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## VCKid1982 (Dec 28, 2015)

I don't know if this works or not... A lot of people seen to be very anti open marriages and say that the emotions and jealousy and all types of other **** can get messy... I don't know, I don't have all the answers but it would seem to me that it would be better if you both wanted this... My thought is that if you are doing what you want and happy, then she will become resentful and very difficult to live with... This is not necessarily the case but it's a thought to consider... I've heard of some people whom have healthy open relationships but they seen to be few and far between in the posts I read...


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> I wonder... This sentence has given me a lot of thought. When I think about it, the subject of her being with others and me being okay with it always made her a bit upset. She is not upset when we talk about me being with others.


Hmmm. Just ran into this last night with a lovely couple (just friends).

Guys don't seem to "get" that for her a virile man is a bit of a good catch, he has to be a worthwhile catch, or it means she's settling for a wimp or needy guy. He _should_ want others, and that she _is_ the best catch out of all them, and he should know it.

If he is "willing" to share, then its because he doesn't care or notice her that much, that she isn't _valued_. You give stones and beers to your bros (and hookers)... not gems, gold and your lady.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Despite my intense aversion to doing so - here goes.
> 
> This oft quoted comment regarding the 50% divorce rate - is ludicrous.
> 
> ...


The divorce rate for married people is a good bit less than 50%. The reason the rate looks as high as it does is because of the people that divorce repeatedly. Just sayin':smile2:


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> TheStranger, understand, this is a pro marriage and, for the most part, a pro-monogamy website. The majority of us on TAM adhere to the Judeo-Christian ethic of the one-man-one-woman-marriage-for-life creed.
> 
> People here are not going to cheer you on for what you are proposing. You are asking us to sanction adultery....which is what open marriages and swinging are. You are wasting emotional energy even getting irritated by folks who are calling you out on it.


Yup.

I gave my husband a hall pass, posted about it when he used it & got beat up by folks here.....& they were all spot on. I blew it big time by giving a hall pass & ended up begging my husband for forgiveness & we are currently working on REPAIRING a marriage that was GOOD; just needed some tweaking.

Your sweet, good "vanilla" wife & the Mother of your child does not deserve to go down the road of cheating, hall passes, swinging, etc. unless she really wants to & I don't think she does. Don't blow a good thing like I did.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

ETA - Husband developed an emotional relationship with Hall Pass OW & she him, so she got screwed up in this mess as well as Husband as well as me.

See, like your wife, I did not want to do the hall pass but had a sexually-for-the-most-part unhappy husband. I did the LAZY thing by throwing out a hall pass & he jumped all over it - we were both lazy & stupid. Instead of fixing the problem like mature adults, we acted like bratty children, whining & complaining.

BTW - I have no problem with open marriages & alternative lifestyles if both partners want that. I don't see anything in your posts that this is what your wife really wants.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It seems clear that you wife does not want an open marriage - for herself. She is quite content with monogamy, which is why she is upset at the idea of being with someone else. She does not have that same reaction to YOU being with someone else (apparently; you want to be sure it's actual, as well). This is common in mixed mono-poly/semi-open relationships. Yes, be sure that she really is okay with the idea and reality of you having other lovers - and that you can handle it as well. I think you are trying to be fair and equitable, but are missing the mark. What's good for one isn't necessarily good for the other - it is objectively imbalanced or may seem a double standard, but it's really just differing priorities and different standards that are mutually agreeable.

Approach discussing it with this in mind, if you do continue talking about it at all. It may be easier to come to a decision for both of you - whatever that may be - if you acknowledge that you each want different things, and are okay with different things.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Maybe go at it logically applied to something different in the marriage - for example, when one partner wants children & the other partner does not, how to handle finances, where to live, work, etc.

In other words, conflict resolution to a difference of opinion, values, morals, needs, wants.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The feeling I get is that the OP has whined and complained and brow-beaten his wife into submitting to this lunacy. She wants him to just shut the fvck up about it, to the point where she is willing to let him go out and get some strange if he will just get off her back. 

It's funny. OP comes on here making things look like all the problems are with his wife and her hang-ups, when in reality he's just a perv who's wife can't get on board with his freakishness....

Am I shooting wide here?


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

I think it's s bullseye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Am I shooting wide here?


Yeah. IMO, of course. :nerd:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Yeah. IMO, of course. :nerd:


Yeah but you're a freak...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah but you're a freak...


I won't argue that! But, I'm a very happily married, successful freak!


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

> I just read through your other threads too.


Thanks. A lot has happened in last two years so just to bring everyone up to present day.



> It sounds like, to this day, your wife doesn't have an orgasm with you very easily, or on a regular basis.


She never had an orgasm in my presence. She can orgasm when alone and she does occasionally like once in every week or two. She has never shown any genuine desire to work on this issue which is one of the reasons why I took the whole situation really, really hard. But, my insecurities are my own problem and I've done a good job so far. I don't feel like a failure anymore (maybe occasionally) but I do miss greatly that her orgasms are not part of our sex life. It's basically the only thing she didn't shared with me and it's most probably going to stay that way.



> She stays at home to look after your special needs son; who has a birth defect in his intestines.


He is not special needs anymore. He is a normal kid now who has some food restrictions and he is aware what makes his stomach hurt and everyone around him is also aware what he needs to avoid. That, having correct diagnosis and getting older actually helped a ton.



> Your wife has always wondered if you loved your ex-girlfriend more (because you moved hundreds of miles in order to be with your ex)


This was issue in early years. It's no longer. 



> Your wife does not like receiving oral.


I was dead wrong. Basically, my insecurities have blown her remark way out of proportions. A remark she said in anger and retracted. 

Me giving oral is something I do almost every time and she pretty much demands it. 



> Your wife does not like giving oral.


This is true. She never liked it. 



> You two are completely sexually incompatible.


No, not completely. As I said in my opening post, she is getting all she wants or needs from our sex life. I'm the one who feels unfulfilled. That is why she is pushing this as a solution.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> he's just a perv who's wife can't get on board with his freakishness....


I'm a perv. I have to own it. :grin2:


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> The feeling I get is that the OP has whined and complained and brow-beaten his wife into submitting to this lunacy. She wants him to just shut the fvck up about it, to the point where she is willing to let him go out and get some strange if he will just get off her back.
> 
> It's funny. OP comes on here making things look like all the problems are with his wife and her hang-ups, when in reality he's just a perv who's wife can't get on board with his freakishness....
> 
> Am I shooting wide here?


The poor woman is probably figuring out how to get out of this marriage. If he's distracted by having sex with other women she'll have more time to get her self ready for a divorce.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> I'm a perv. I have to own it. :grin2:


But your wife is not. 

See, you are trying to stick a square penis in a round vagina....the two of you are sexually mismatched. You are unhappy and miserable, and you are making her unhappy and miserable. 

Something has to give. Have you and her talked about going to sex therapy, or maybe marriage coaching?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TheStranger said:


> Thanks. A lot has happened in last two years so just to bring everyone up to present day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A few thoughts. Marriage is hard to make work, it requires a lot of give and take on both partners.

You wife is trying very hard on her end, whether you believe it or not. It is good that you are not pushing the orgasm thing.
However, you shouldn't feel that she is "broken" and needs to fix herself. Her only orgasmming in private could indicate deep shame in her own sexuality or in feeling safe enough to totally relax with no one around to see or judge her. 

It is good that you can accept that her lack of orgasms is not your fault, because it isn't your fault. You are not a bad lover or husband. Hopefully you contemplating an open marriage is not about proving to yourself that you are a "good lover." 

I really don't think that risking a marriage, especially with a child is worth it, but ultimately that is for you and your wife to decide.

My advice to you would be to figure out what new things you and your wife can do together that would spice things up a little or both go to a sex therapist who may help the two of you work through things.

Good luck.


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

I can tell you from personal experience she WILL regret this for a bit. Even if she gets over it and decides it really works she will have some jealousy, you will probably have confusion yourself on how you feel. The important thing is both of you be 100% open and honest with each other. If either decides it needs to stop, then it stops.

We have shared with others for 20 years. The first couple years had some serious regrets at times, but we worked thru it. Both of us enjoy it and we respect the other's feelings so if anything is uncomfortable it stops instantly. We actually got out of the lifestyle for several years because it just no longer interested us to do it. Recently got back into it. The first guy she was wanting as a 3rd was single and he thought it was more than just sex. SHE set him straight and cut him loose. You need to be able to do the same, keep your feelings only for your spouse and recognize the need to cut another out if they don't play by the rules.

My advice also is if your wife can handle it make sure she meets the other woman before anything happens. let her give the blessings. If she can't handle it, then I would say your best bet is not do it at all.


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## Normalguy062302 (Dec 30, 2015)

As long as you think she'll be good with it, then go for it. I would definitely stay away from anyone she knows though. Also, you need to prepare yourself for the possibility of her doing the same thing. Would you be ok with her having sex with someone else? If not, then it's a no go. Ask her what her ideal sex partner would be and then ask if you could find that for her, would she have sex with him/her? Maybe that would work and then you could go have sex with whoever you want. Come home and have sex together afterward....what a great world.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

A thread that sounds like where yall are headed.... Thought you might appreciate the crosslink


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/308818-blew-up-today.html


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

intheory said:


> So, if I'm understanding you correctly, she now demands oral sex from you; but doesn't have an orgasm from it. Is that correct?
> 
> That sounds strange. It seems like if she is "demanding" oral sex, then it must be making her feel really good; then an orgasm would be the natural thing to happen. If she's not getting all the way there; it seems like you guys could work on it. What I'm saying is that oral might be the way for you two to make some kind of a breakthrough together sexually.
> 
> ...


They need to go to a sex therapist.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You sound like a thoughtful person op. It's not your fault she can't orgasm with you.

I wish you would not do the open marriage thing. I truly think it would cause you a divorce. 

Please follow advice and see a sex the realist or whatever it takes to not involve other people in a marriage that already sounds stressed.

The peace you experience knowing you have a wife at home that cares about you and you're not worrying about cheating on you can NEVER be replaced. Don't f it up. Please. I hate to see this stuff. You will never know pain like you will feel seeing her walk out the door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

happy2gether said:


> The first guy she was wanting as a 3rd was single and he thought it was more than just sex. SHE set him straight and cut him loose. You need to be able to do the same, keep your feelings only for your spouse and recognize the need to cut another out if they don't play by the rules.


That's the main reason I kept out of the scene. I just can't do the sex thing with out the extra intimacy. I'm far more interested in the intimacy, the exploring of mind, body, and moment than the physical act.


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## VCKid1982 (Dec 28, 2015)

I'm not sure how you make an open marriage work... It seems there are either a lot of people with a lot of bad experiences or a lot of people who are just flat-out against it... Either way, I just don't know if it really works?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

VCKid1982 said:


> I'm not sure how you make an open marriage work... It seems there are either a lot of people with a lot of bad experiences or a lot of people who are just flat-out against it... Either way,* I just don't know if it really works?*


That is a good question. If you haven't experienced it, it is hard to know if it works, how it works, how it could work, etc. 

Most people here have been monogamously married. For many of them, it hasn't worked - half or more of all marriages either end in divorce *or* aren't satisfying when the couple stays together. Sometimes a second or third try works better, but the statistics say that they fail at a higher rate than first marriages. It would seem that _traditional marriage doesn't work_, if you look at it this way. Yet people still give it a try in droves - this is the cultural norm, so even if it doesn't work all that well, it's what people know about and are motivated to try. Also, you tend to hear about the problems and failures whether it's traditional monogamy or some form of non-monogamy, because people come to seek help when those happen - you hear MUCH less about the successes.

No doubt the same is true for open/poly relationships, but they are more complex, and there are far fewer role models for how to make them work. The difference is that - usually - all the people involved honestly want this kind of relationship - for good or bad reasons, as the case may be. Or, they are willing to experiment and take the risk in order to get something they cannot obtain otherwise.

Do they work? Yes, probably about as well as traditional marriages. There are at least several people on this site who have non-traditional, non-monogamous relationships that do work. Mine is one example, and it has worked without any problems for 16 years.


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## VCKid1982 (Dec 28, 2015)

Thanks for sharing openly and honestly...


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> There are at least several people on this site who have non-traditional, non-monogamous relationships that do work. Mine is one example, and it has worked without any problems for 16 years.


ours too, been together 21 years now and the only time we have had a problem was actually when we had not had an open relationship for several years because we took a break from it. back at it now, and closer than ever!

is it for everyone or even most folks, he11 no! but it works for us and others we know.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> You wife is trying very hard on her end, whether you believe it or not.


She is trying on her end very hard. I understand and appreciate that greatly. Her methods are somewhat unconventional.



> Her only orgasmming in private could indicate deep shame in her own sexuality


Bingo! She doesn't why she feels shame about having an orgasm in front of me but she understands it's very deeply rooted and she has no interest in exploring the issue. I might not approve of her decision, you might not approve of her decision but it's her decision to make.



> Hopefully you contemplating an open marriage is not about proving to yourself that you are a "good lover."


It's not. That would most certainly be a recipe for a disaster. That much I undestand.



Personal said:


> How do you think you would feel after making your marriage open, when she orgasms quite readily with another man while still not having an orgasm with you?


Oh, it would hurt really, really bad without question. But, I'd rather have the truth than avoid it in attempt not to feel bad. Same with cheating. I would rather know than not know even if it means great pain.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Anyway, I guess a bit of an update is in order. 

We were celebrating a new year at home with another couple - our close friends. Well, one thing led to another and... both our wives took turns being a table for food and booze in their underwear. Their idea. In the end they touched one another in front of us before retreating to our separate rooms for sex. I've slept like an hour and a half in total and today she has no regrets and she seemed happy and horny. So I guess she officially opened our relationship. I'm still unsure what to do but I'm glad she enjoyed herself. I enjoyed seeing her enjoying herself.

Happy new year to all.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Well...


Yippee.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I guess with all these pro open marriage posters taking up residence, TAM's status as a haven for monogamous people is coming to an end. 

TAM just got its polyamory cherry popped. How sweet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Heatherknows said:


> Married but Happy said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously, you know NOTHING about how swinging works, which isn't too surprising as most people are clueless unless they've tried it or done some real investigation. You may be a little closer (but not much) when it comes to open relationships. But, you imagery is great! I had a good laugh, so thank you.
> ...


How was having sex with APs over Skype,internet working to feed your need for traditional romance? They could not "Get the bill or open your door and when they told you they've never felt this way before and want you more than any woman they've ever met...they did not mean it"


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