# The OM has my wife’s ear… I need help.



## BoSlander

Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?

Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).

I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.

All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.

All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being ****ing punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”

After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.

I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.

Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.

Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


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## Laurentium

JBLH said:


> I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man.


does she know you did this?


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## Diana7

I would be very wary, she is playing with fire. You may want to fit a VAR in her car and even ask her to take a lie detector test.


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## Dictum Veritas

Trust your gut. You wouldn't be posting here if it weren't screaming at you that something is amiss. I would monitor her closely were I you. I second @Diana7 's suggestion of a VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) placed in her car and places where she normally uses her phone.

I hope it's nothing, but we have instincts that we ignore only at our own peril.


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## frenchpaddy

I think your right please don't come back and try telling us we are reading into it wrong and picking up the things you did not say , SOMETIMES IT IS GOOD TO JUST VENT 
Some how I think you know what way this will go


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## BeyondRepair007

To be honest I thought your impulse to fly home and file for divorce was spot on.

I’d bet my paycheck you are sharing your wife with Richard, in every sense of the word. That Italy thing was a total set up for when you wouldn’t be there. They planned it and pulled it off. That wouldn’t have happened if there was just a “casual flirty interest”.

Sorry @JBLH this doesn’t look good to me.


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## manfromlamancha

JBLH said:


> Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?
> 
> Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).
> 
> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.
> 
> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.
> 
> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”
> 
> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


You said that you are going to file for divorce as soon as you get back to the USA. Have you set these boundaries even though you are going to divorce? Of course there is more to this and she is lying through her teeth. And this may not be her first rodeo given what you have said about the faculty.


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## BoSlander

Laurentium said:


> does she know you did this?


She knows I know a couple of things but only because she told me. She does not know I also know because I checked the browsing history.

Am I stupid or something? I don’t find it normal that she would be so infatuated with this guy that she’d spend hours finding information about him on the internet. It’s almost like she’s fantasizing about him…


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## She'sStillGotIt

*



THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.

Click to expand...

*She should have been put on notice right then and there. I'm guessing you whined and complained and swallowed the **** sandwich she served up to you because you were too afraid to stand up for yourself and stand behind your words. I'm getting that you're very passive.

*



I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.

Click to expand...

*Are you LISTENING to yourself???? She was acting like an idiot teenager fawning all over some guy 7 years ago at a wedding - to the point of completely *ignoring you*! The amount of disrespect that you willingly accepted that day was cringe-worthy. All that taught her was that you don't respect yourself and don't have the guts to stand up for yourself. But where on earth you're getting the NONSENSE that she's some innocent little hot-house flower who was 'driven to succumb' to the big, bad man's advances actually made me laugh out loud.

This is a woman who has *compiled a complete dossier on this guy*, and you HONESTLY keep trying to act like she's this innocent hot-house flower who has NO CLUE what she's doing and in her innocence when she let the guy in the house for coffee, she was unaware that she'd sent him the message that she was 'available.'

Good Lord, OP. Your wife is probably the one who invited HIM over. Pull your head out of the damned sand!!

You seriously need to start respecting yourself. Seriously.


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## BoSlander

manfromlamancha said:


> You said that you are going to file for divorce as soon as you get back to the USA. Have you set these boundaries even though you are going to divorce? Of course there is more to this and she is lying through her teeth. And this may not be her first rodeo given what you have said about the faculty.


No, that’s how I feel right now, but that’s the easy way out. If she is indeed cheating I want to leverage the adultery to its furthest extent when I file the divorce.


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## sideways

Glad you found TAM.

I agree with Laurentium. Does she know that you're aware of her browsing history for weeks?

She's a married woman and not some single woman checking out a man she's potentially dating (or maybe that is her intention). 

Also, what are the odds of this man randomly showing up across the world in the EXACT same town that your home in Italy is and he showed up at your house? 

How would he know where you lived unless your wife told him??

How would he know that she was there? Unless she told him.

And is it a coincidence that he shows up when you're not there?

There's something going on and you'd be a fool if you thought otherwise. 

If it were me I would seriously be leaning on having my wife take a poly, and not just take it, but pass it.


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## snowbum

Why didn’t you shut the promiscuous school thing down long ago?


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## BeyondRepair007

JBLH said:


> I soooo wish I were, believe me.


Dude, all of your worst fears and more are likely to be real. Adjust to the new normal asap and start protecting yourself.


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## BoSlander

Gotta be honest though… if she’s seeing this man, I honestly have no idea where they are meeting. She never goes out, is home within 45 minutes of getting out of work (we live 27 miles away from her place of work), et cetera.


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## BeyondRepair007

JBLH said:


> Gotta be honest though… if she’s seeing this man, I honestly have no idea where they are meeting. She never goes out, is home within 45 minutes of getting out of work (we live 27 miles away from her place of work), et cetera.


If you read A little on TAM you’ll find that where there’s a will, there’s a way. And you know that Italy visit was not exactly platonic right?


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## Works

JBLH said:


> Gotta be honest though… if she’s seeing this man, I honestly have no idea where they are meeting. She never goes out, is home within 45 minutes of getting out of work (we live 27 miles away from her place of work), et cetera.


She's probably seeing him in the school as to not raise any "suspicions" on your end, so she's keeping her routine.... for now.


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## BoSlander

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Dude, all of your worst fears and more are likely to be real. Adjust to the new normal asap and start protecting yourself.


I think I’m going to shut up and keep my ears open. I know how to do a few things to get the information I need. But yes, unfortunately, I’ll have to wear protection.


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## BoSlander

Works said:


> She's probably seeing him in the school as to not raise any "suspicions" on your end, so she's keeping her routine.... for now.


So… most likely during her lunch hour?


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## BeyondRepair007

JBLH said:


> I think I’m going to shut up and keep my ears open. I know how to do a few things to get the information I need. But yes, unfortunately, I’ll have to wear protection.


Good plan, get the evidence you need for yourself and for the court. Shut up, make like all is good, and plant those devices. Brace yourself for the fallout.

See a lawyer asap to understand how to prep, steps to take, and what evidence is needed. It will vary by state, if it’s useful at all.


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## BigDaddyNY

Divorce, she has already cheated. Stalking a man online then inviting him to your house while you are out of the country? Don't be so naïve.


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## Works

JBLH said:


> So… most likely during her lunch hour?


Like someone else here said, where there's a will there's always a way. 

I don't know your wife, but it already seems like she's up to no good. I can't imagine acting that way toward another guy with my boyfriend... let alone when I was married before. 

The things some men on here post and put up with baffles me.. I did nothing of the sort to my now exH and he still did me extremely dirty.

Please don't be naive.. I came on here back in 2016 for the first time and everyone was spot on... we wouldn't be coming to TAM if everything was going smoothly.


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## Diana7

So a man who lives in the USA goes all the way to Italy get a boat engine fixed and also it just happens to be at the exact place and the time that your wife is there? Do they not fix boat engines in the USA  🤷‍♀️
It seems like an arrangement was made for him to also go there when she was, and she mentioned it incase your child saw them and spilled the beans. The chances of her story being true are about 1000 to one I would have thought.


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## Rus47

JBLH said:


> Gotta be honest though… if she’s seeing this man, I honestly have no idea where they are meeting. She never goes out, is home within 45 minutes of getting out of work (we live 27 miles away from her place of work), et cetera.


How about at school? Empty rooms, closets, numerous opportunities and places. You already mentioned that the drunk teacher at the gathering where your wife was drooling over some married men on dance floor told you the whole lot of them were promiscuous beyond belief. These are who are "teaching" our kids.



JBLH said:


> Am I stupid or something? I don’t find it normal that she would be so infatuated with this guy that she’d spend hours finding information about him on the internet. It’s almost like she’s fantasizing about him…


I would bet my last dollare that "Richard" isn't her first AP and won't be her last. Your "wife" hasn't been faithful to you in a very long time. She had Richard in YOUR house, probably in YOUR bed, more than once while YOU weren't in Italy. You paid for her vacation with her FB.



JBLH said:


> *I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce.* I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.


She did it because she WANTED to. Don't kid yourself that HE was some sort of aggressor. She was stalking her quarry for a long time, which you know from overhearing her phone calls and looking up her browsing history. She chased the quarry, caught him and efd his brains out. 

In bold is what you ought to do. Anything else is just wasting your life and time.


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## BeyondRepair007

Works said:


> Like someone else here said, where there's a will there's always a way.
> 
> I don't know your wife, but it already seems like she's up to no good. I can't imagine acting that way toward another guy with my boyfriend... let alone when I was married before.
> 
> The things some men on here post and put up with baffles me.. I did nothing of the sort to my now exH and he still did me extremely dirty.
> 
> Please don't be naive.. I came on here back in 2016 for the first time and everyone was spot on... we wouldn't be coming to TAM if everything was going smoothly.


I don’t recall the exact details, but I read a story of a WW and OM where her schedule never fluctuated or had any unusual gaps at all. But they were having a torrid physical affair in all the moments that make up a dull day (sorry for the Pink Floyd reference I couldn’t help myself)


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## Works

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I don’t recall the exact details, but I read a story of a WW and OM where her schedule never fluctuated or had any unusual gaps at all. But they were having a torrid physical affair in all the moments that make up a dull day (sorry for the Pink Floyd reference I couldn’t help myself)


See OP, it is possible. 

I'm still confused with the whole Italy and US thing.. was Richard in Italy when the wife was there from the US?


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## red oak

He has her number even though he doesn’t need it. Why? Hello! Hello! Anyone up there?
Get her phone and Check the text messages.
I figure that’s all you’ll need. If there aren’t any there download a spy app on her phone.


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## Marc878

Go online and check her phone bill. Review her text and call data. That may give you a clue unless they are using an app.


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## Captain Obvious

You and your wife are obviously well off financially, hire a PI. Like was said earlier, if her and this turd are screwing, it’s probably during their lunch breaks.


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## cocolo2019

JBLH said:


> I think I’m going to shut up and keep my ears open. I know how to do a few things to get the information I need. But yes, unfortunately, I’ll have to wear protection.


Good OP. For now, I recommend you put your poker face hat on while collecting evidence.

Do not let her know you are on to her. 
Get a VAR, put a keylogger on the computer and if she is cheating, you will get the smoking gun.


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## Livvie

I'm CONFUSED!!!

This guy had a boat in Italy in the same place your second home is, in Italy, is that what she's telling you? 

Just trying to get the facts straight.


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## BigDaddyNY

Livvie said:


> I'm CONFUSED!!!
> 
> This guy had a boat in Italy in the same place your second home is, in Italy, is that what she's telling you?
> 
> Just trying to get the facts straight.


Great story, huh? lol It is amazing how coincidences happen, isn't it?


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## Works

Livvie said:


> I'm CONFUSED!!!
> 
> This guy had a boat in Italy in the same place your second home is, in Italy, is that what she's telling you?
> 
> Just trying to get the facts straight.


I was as confused as well...


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## LeGenDary_Man

JBLH said:


> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot.


WHY do you assume that your wife has never been the flirty type? You saw this side of her in a wedding in fact:

_"Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home."_

WHY did you allow your wife to work in this school system [after] you learned that it is a den of hookups? What could possibly go wrong in this type of work environment? Other school systems are not better?



JBLH said:


> Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.


Yes, your wife is sober at home but flirtatious in social situations.

WHY you chose to overlook and rugsweep this type of behavior?

You should have confronted your wife after the wedding [at home]. You should have told her that you do not find it acceptable for her flirt with other men.

Never ignore and rugsweep an issue which may bug you for so long.



JBLH said:


> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.


This guy is BAD NEWS for your marriage.



JBLH said:


> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”


RED FLAG.

Possibility of Richard having hooked-up with your wife in your home in Italy cannot be ruled out.



JBLH said:


> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


No, it was NOT professional (in July). Your wife is gaslighting you.

WHAT drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control? See the LIST of WHYs above.


----------



## TDSC60

So this guy Richard, who works with your wife in a school system in the USA, just happens to run into her near your summer home in Italy. Because he has a boat in Italy that needed repairs. Is that it?
This is so much more than coincidence.


----------



## uwe.blab

TDSC60 said:


> So this guy Richard, who works with your wife in a school system in the USA, just happens to run into her near your summer home in Italy. Because he has a boat in Italy that needed repairs. Is that it?
> This is so much more than coincidence.


Yes obviously not a coincidence.

With the internet search and her talking about him, sounds like SHE is just as much the pursuer here. But OP sits her down and explains what the OM is doing, how he is 'tricking' her or something. She KNOWS it dude. She is HAPPILY taking part. He did not force his way into your Italian country-side home.


----------



## Rob_1

I'm a little confused here, OP did you post your situation recently somewhere else, in another forum? I could swear that I read your situation recently but with less details.
Anyway, it all comes down to you not wanting to see what you deep down knew that you didn't want to see. Time to reattach your balls, mouth shut, eyes wide open and in the meantime prepare yourself legally and economically, and be ready for when the whip comes down, because it will. You could actually surprise her with serving her without notice.


----------



## Tdbo

JBLH said:


> Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?
> 
> Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).
> 
> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.
> 
> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.
> 
> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”
> 
> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


Sounds to me like you have everything you need.
If you feel you need more, VAR up all the areas that she tends to use her phone in (car, house, etc.) Consider utilizing a PI to gain more knowledge, if you after a consultation with an attorney feel it is necessary.
My advice is to lawyer up. Have her served up cold at work.
If you want to stay in the marriage, put the onus on her to do the work and fix things ON YOUR TERMS. If she is not so motivated, cut your losses and move on.
Frankly, you should have brought down heaven and earth on her after that party. You might not be in the mess that you are now.
Yes, I can believe this scenario. I spent 31 years in Education. Never saw, heard of, or dealt with anything this blatant, but the potential was always there.


----------



## sideways

Screw this going into detective mode. You ALREADY have enough to warrant the following steps.

1) You sit her down, look her in the eyes and tell her you know all about her browser history. EVERYTHING that she was looking up.

2) You then tell her that you are no fool, and if she wants to try and spin a story to you that by sheer coincidence this D!ck (Richard and yes pun intended) just happened to run into her at your home halfway around the world while you were back in the States then why don't you go ahead and pull my other leg because it plays Jingle Bells.

3) Then ask her point blank if she and D!ckhead are having an affair? And she needs to think before she answers because this is her ONLY chance to come clean.

4) Then show her filled out divorce papers and let her know that given what's gone down you do NOT trust her word at this juncture.

5) Only way that you can think of to confirm whether or not she's telling the truth is for her to take and PASS a poly.

6) If she's innocent and has nothing to hide she should have no problem taking a poly and if she refuses this should confirm everything you need to know.

7) If she fails the poly the divorce papers are filed and this sham of a marriage is over. Only way that it continues is if she passes.

She is at minimum having an emotional affair, but come on, this guy showing up in Italy by coincidence and running into your wife (how does he know where you live) when you're back in the States???? They more then likely are having sex. Sorry OP but come on.

I mean if you want to believe nothing is going on you have bigger issues.

Don't just set up the Poly. Make her follow through and take it. The people here at TAM can help you with the questions for the poly.


----------



## Evinrude58

usually munching on poo Sammiches on the past is an indicator or future behavior. Yes, the thing to do is at the very least file for divorce and get rid of her. But most likely you’ll be taking her back if she makes any effort to keep you. At least if you file and she has to work the tiniest bit to keep you, you’ll know she has at least a little feeling for you.

a coworker showing up to your house, wherever it is..,….. yeah man, he ain’t coming for coffee. Don’t second guess yourself. Don’t let her gaslighting tales overwhelm you in your state of weakness. Do what yourfirst reaction is and file. I personally think you should divorce her, because she is a two-faced cheater, and I hate a two-faced person in general.


----------



## *Deidre*

I think that many stay in these situations because they fear divorce. But is staying with someone who is likely cheating on you, the better option? I would say if there are kids involved, I understand somewhat the desire not to turn their lives upside down but even in those cases, is it better to stay in a marriage filled with lies than it is to divorce and provide kids with a stable home? To me, fearing divorce isn’t a reason to stay in a marriage where you can’t trust your spouse.

I think you know what you need to do, OP but it might not be what you want to do.


----------



## So far so good

I find it a bit strange that she actually told you Richard was there. Typically cheaters would just hide this information… so maybe, just maybe they are still in the flirting phase… 

I agree with other poster saying that you have to sit her down, get her one chance to talk and get her to do the poly. And be ready to divorce… it can’t be only a meaningless threat. 

Talk to a lawyer to know what a divorce would look like. You don’t have to divorce right away but you need to be informed.


----------



## re16

His kids were there, she probably had to say something to cover for the fact that they might say Richard was there.

There is no way this wasn't planned. You need to find that communication, to prove she is being deceitful about this guy, which you know she is.

I would definitely be telling her she is going to take a poly if she wants to stay married, and that she has one chance to tell you the entire truth.

With what you are describing as her work / social scene, her behavior going back 7 years, I think this is likely just the first time you kinda caught her.

You should check out her PTO / Vacation time over the last 5 months and try to match it to days you know she was off... she could easily have said she was going to work and then just have been taking time off to see Richard.

Meeting up in Italy... please... this is very likely a full blown affair.


The big question is: do you think you need more proof, or are you really ready to just leave and file on her?


----------



## Works

re16 said:


> His kids were there, she probably had to say something to cover for the fact that they might say Richard was there.
> 
> There is no way this wasn't planned. You need to find that communication, to prove she is being deceitful about this guy, which you know she is.
> 
> I would definitely be telling her she is going to take a poly if she wants to stay married, and that she has one chance to tell you the entire truth.
> 
> With what you are describing as her work / social scene, her behavior going back 7 years, I think this is likely just the first time you kinda caught her.
> 
> You should check out her PTO / Vacation time over the last 5 months and try to match it to days you know she was off... she could easily have said she was going to work and then just have been taking time off to see Richard.
> 
> Meeting up in Italy... please... this is very likely a full blown affair.
> 
> 
> The big question is: do you think you need more proof, or are you really ready to just leave and file on her?


That was one insanely expensive cup of coffee they had together in Italy... and I thought Starbucks was bad.


----------



## re16

Works said:


> That was one insanely expensive cup of coffee they had together in Italy... and I thought Starbucks was bad.


Yea, when you look at it that way, this guy spent many thousands to go see OPs wife in a different country... I think we all know how she rewarded him for doing that.


----------



## Works

re16 said:


> Yea, when you look at it that way, this guy spent many thousands to go see OPs wife in a different country... I think we all know how she rewarded him for doing that.


I can't fathom meeting someone that isn't my boyfriend down the street, let alone taking the time to look up tickets, drive to the airport, get in a plane and fly thousands of miles away.


----------



## re16

Works said:


> I can't fathom meeting someone that isn't my boyfriend down the street, let alone taking the time to look up tickets, drive to the airport, get in a plane and fly thousands of miles away.


The only way it makes sense, is if you are in a serious relationship with someone...


----------



## Works

re16 said:


> The only way it makes sense, is if you are in a serious relationship with someone...


Ding. Ding. Ding.


----------



## Casual Observer

JBLH said:


> I think I’m going to shut up and keep my ears open. I know how to do a few things to get the information I need. But yes, unfortunately, I’ll have to wear protection.


Will wearing a condom be unusual, a red flag? Not suggesting you don’t. Just have to be careful not to kill stealth mode.


----------



## Marc878

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck it’s not a zebra.


----------



## Works

Marc878 said:


> If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck it’s not a zebra.


Oooh.. oooh.. I know this one.. it's a cheetah. 

😐


----------



## Rus47

Works said:


> That was one insanely expensive cup of coffee they had together in Italy... and I thought Starbucks was bad.


Oh but she loaded up on ‘the cream’ for sure.


----------



## Rus47

re16 said:


> Yea, when you look at it that way, this guy spent many thousands to go see OPs wife in a different country... I think we all know how she rewarded him for doing that.


She says he is wealthy. That could be a lie and she bought his damned ticket to Italy


----------



## BoSlander

So far so good said:


> I find it a bit strange that she actually told you Richard was there. Typically cheaters would just hide this information… so maybe, just maybe they are still in the flirting phase…


This is exactly what I thought. I found it extremely odd that she would divulge the date. They met in the early morning in front of the house and he, from what I’ve heard (a third party,) never entered the house (he was in the property though).

He got the phone # from the school’s social worker (I saw the text,) but in that text, my wife tells the social worker that “he already has it.” That does tie back to another text he had sent my wife in which he tells her that her department had approved her small fridge request and that he was going to get the fridge (he was in the procurement department at the time). That was back in April.

Having said the above, there still is suspicious behavior. She’s taking cash out of the savings account with odd frequency and always at the end of the month… She seldom answers the phone after lunchtime, which I also find odd and tells me she is OFTEN away from her cell phone. The most incriminating part is that she’s been going to work early every day, meaning she’s getting to work at 7:30ish even though she starts at 8:30.

Like I said, I’m shutting the heck up and listen. I NEVER show up to work 1 hour early unless I have to be at work 1 hour early.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

JBLH said:


> This is exactly what I thought. I found it extremely odd that she would divulge the date. They met in the early morning in front of the house and he, from what I’ve heard (a third party,) never entered the house (he was in the property though).
> 
> He got the phone # from the school’s social worker (I saw the text,) but in that text, my wife tells the social worker that “he already has it.” That does tie back to another text he had sent my wife in which he tells her that her department had approved her small fridge request and that he was going to get the fridge (he was in the procurement department at the time). That was back in April.
> 
> Having said the above, there still is suspicious behavior. She’s taking cash out of the savings account with odd frequency and always at the end of the month… She seldom answers the phone after lunchtime, which I also find odd and tells me she is OFTEN away from her cell phone. The most incriminating part is that she’s been going to work early every day, meaning she’s getting to work at 7:30ish even though she starts at 8:30.
> 
> Like I said, I’m shutting the heck up and listen. I NEVER show up to work 1 hour early unless I have to be at work 1 hour early.


We're in Chinese military parade mode here. Red Flag after Red Flag after Red Flag.

The early morning thing... wake up. That's not innocent. that's not her being a good worker. $100 bucks says Richard also goes to work early.

Sorry OP. Nothing here is good news. Even the neighbor report sounds suspect. that's just what he saw. And...why was he looking? He was provided with that story.

Wife to the neighbor: "Oh yea Richard was here the other day did you see him? he couldn't stay though. I'll have to make sure to tell JBLH so he doesn't worry"


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> This is exactly what I thought. I found it extremely odd that she would divulge the date. They met in the early morning in front of the house and he, from what I’ve heard (a third party,) never entered the house (he was in the property though).
> 
> He got the phone # from the school’s social worker (I saw the text,) but in that text, my wife tells the social worker that “he already has it.” That does tie back to another text he had sent my wife in which he tells her that her department had approved her small fridge request and that he was going to get the fridge (he was in the procurement department at the time). That was back in April.
> 
> Having said the above, there still is suspicious behavior. She’s taking cash out of the savings account with odd frequency and always at the end of the month… She seldom answers the phone after lunchtime, which I also find odd and tells me she is OFTEN away from her cell phone. The most incriminating part is that she’s been going to work early every day, meaning she’s getting to work at 7:30ish even though she starts at 8:30.
> 
> Like I said, I’m shutting the heck up and listen. I NEVER show up to work 1 hour early unless I have to be at work 1 hour early.


Your "wife" as with any cheater, will only admit to what you already have proof of. Whatever they say about things you can't prove is always a lie. He never entered the house. Sure. He flew all the way to Italy for a coffee date and stood around in front of your house. I have a bridge in NYC want to sell you, since you believe her story.

So she has time in the morning at "work". And after 'lunch'. Could easily be in her locked office. Evaluating Richard's ****. Damn, if he is getting two a day, bet that is way more than you have had in a loong time if ever. Speaking of which, have you noticed her being "too tired" to engage with you? Understandable, her energy is elsewhere.

You know what has been going on for a long time. You weren't born yesterday. You just don't want to believe your lying eyes. Sorry you are in this spot. It sucks.


----------



## Rus47

BeyondRepair007 said:


> The early morning thing... wake up. That's not innocent. that's not her being a good worker. $100 bucks says Richard also goes to work early.


Yes, for sure old Richard is "going to work" early morning ( and for a nooner after lunch ). Richard proly has no actual time for any actual work short of doing the school psychologist. He is plowing her morning, noon, and maybe some nights.


----------



## Works

Rus47 said:


> Yes, for sure old Richard is "going to work" early morning ( and for a nooner after lunch ). Richard proly has no actual time for any actual work short of doing the school psychologist. He is plowing her morning, noon, and maybe some nights.


I will never look at Richard's the same again.


----------



## Rus47

Works said:


> I will never look at Richard's the same again.


Ever heard of Richard the* Lion* Hearted? I think the title of the thread would be more realistic if an "R" were placed in front of the last word in the phrase before the ...

Wife may be calling him 'Richard' for hubby's sake when his actual name is the alternative.


----------



## snowbum

I find it hard to believe someone would spend $3000 yo meet a woman they could bang for free at work. This seems sketch.


----------



## Works

Rus47 said:


> Ever heard of Richard the* Lion* Hearted? I think the title of the thread would be more realistic if an "R" were placed in front of the last word in the phrase before the ...
> 
> Wife may be calling him 'Richard' for hubby's sake when his actual name is the alternative.


Oh yea, I am sure the name has been changed to protect the identity of the real culprit. 🤔🤔


----------



## re16

JBLH said:


> Having said the above, there still is suspicious behavior. She’s taking cash out of the savings account with odd frequency and always at the end of the month… She seldom answers the phone after lunchtime, which I also find odd and tells me she is OFTEN away from her cell phone. The most incriminating part is that she’s been going to work early every day, meaning she’s getting to work at 7:30ish even though she starts at 8:30.


O man, this is bad. Do you have any sort of location tracking.. is she actually going to school, or to his house on the way?

(let me guess, she turned off location tracking a few months ago).

I would be looking through everything she has for a burner phone.

ETA: Approx how much cash? Maybe hotel money?


----------



## Divinely Favored

JBLH said:


> Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?
> 
> Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).
> 
> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.
> 
> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.
> 
> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”
> 
> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


Polygraph would be in order. Just file and give this disrespectful woman what she wants...to be free to pursue things with Richard.


----------



## Evinrude58

I still am not guilty grasping whether **** met her in Italy or USA. If Italy……. Well, that is indeed a coincidence that alone would have me at an attorney’s office


----------



## Works

Evinrude58 said:


> I still am not guilty grasping whether **** met her in Italy or USA. If Italy……. Well, that is indeed a coincidence that alone would have me at an attorney’s office


I believe he met her in Italy for a cup of coffee that is soooo good one can ONLY find in that part of the world. ✈ 🇮🇹


----------



## Rus47

Works said:


> I believe he met her in Italy for a cup of coffee that is soooo good one can ONLY find in that part of the world. ✈ 🇮🇹


That coffee requires a LOT of cream to be added to it and stirred with a large swizzle stick


----------



## re16

Works said:


> I believe he met her in Italy for a cup of coffee that is soooo good one can ONLY find in that part of the world. ✈ 🇮🇹


I think she finds that "cup of coffee" wherever Richard happens to be, which is oddly often where OP's wife is.


----------



## Benbutton

To answer one of your questions OP, yes you are being punked.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Works said:


> I will never look at Richard's the same again.


Hey she likes DlCK her actions prove it.


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> This is exactly what I thought. I found it extremely odd that she would divulge the date. They met in the early morning in front of the house and he, from what I’ve heard (a third party,) never entered the house (he was in the property though).
> 
> He got the phone # from the school’s social worker (I saw the text,) but in that text, my wife tells the social worker that “he already has it.” That does tie back to another text he had sent my wife in which he tells her that her department had approved her small fridge request and that he was going to get the fridge (he was in the procurement department at the time). That was back in April.
> 
> Having said the above, there still is suspicious behavior. She’s taking cash out of the savings account with odd frequency and always at the end of the month… She seldom answers the phone after lunchtime, which I also find odd and tells me she is OFTEN away from her cell phone. The most incriminating part is that she’s been going to work early every day, meaning she’s getting to work at 7:30ish even though she starts at 8:30.
> 
> Like I said, I’m shutting the heck up and listen. I NEVER show up to work 1 hour early unless I have to be at work 1 hour early.


Maybe it was for cover in case your son said something.


----------



## Evinrude58

Surely OP isn’t believing the visit if you Italia was a coincidence and “third party didn’t see him go inside”……doesn’t cut the mustard with him.


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> This is exactly what I thought. I found it extremely odd that she would divulge the date. They met in the early morning in front of the house and he, from what I’ve heard (a third party,) never entered the house (he was in the property though).
> 
> He got the phone # from the school’s social worker (I saw the text,) but in that text, my wife tells the social worker that “he already has it.” That does tie back to another text he had sent my wife in which he tells her that her department had approved her small fridge request and that he was going to get the fridge (he was in the procurement department at the time). That was back in April.
> 
> Having said the above, there still is suspicious behavior. She’s taking cash out of the savings account with odd frequency and always at the end of the month… She seldom answers the phone after lunchtime, which I also find odd and tells me she is OFTEN away from her cell phone. The most incriminating part is that she’s been going to work early every day, meaning she’s getting to work at 7:30ish even though she starts at 8:30.
> 
> Like I said, I’m shutting the heck up and listen. I NEVER show up to work 1 hour early unless I have to be at work 1 hour early.


Bud, you have the funds. Get a good PI on it.
No one who comes here is going to file for divorce on red flags. Even if they know what’s going on.
Most all want proof so get it.


----------



## Tobyboy

Are you “jakobs” cousin?


----------



## SRCSRC

Let the dust settle then in a couple of weeks have a PI tail her for awhile. It is expensive but if anything is going on that is your best chance of nailing her. The two of them must be concerned that you will find out something so they may cool it for awhile. Also, does the OM have a wife? 

Get your ducks in a row. If infidelity is a dealbreaker, find a lawyer you can see at a moment's notice. If you discover infidelity, there is no better way to respond but to do it cleanly, rapidly, and decisively.


----------



## BoSlander

re16 said:


> O man, this is bad. Do you have any sort of location tracking.. is she actually going to school, or to his house on the way?


That’s the thing, she drives a Tesla BUT this has of sort of fallen on my lap after the school year ended, so I don’t know. I will be able to track the car’s moves once the school year starts, and I AM playing good boy in the hopes she hits the ground running come September. Now, the issue is that she gets the car parked usually about 5 blocks from the school by 7:30AM. In a neighborhood known for being difficult for finding a spot. My take is that Richard is already there and gives up the spot to her and they both drive away. The constant parking like 5-10 blocks away has always seemed odd to me.



> let me guess, she turned off location tracking a few months ago).


I don’t know. IMHO, the best course of action for me is planting a small GPS device in her bag. I already know she leaves her phone in her desk drawer during most of the day so tracking the phone would be a waste.



> I would be looking through everything she has for a burner phone.


That is what I’m doing as soon as I return to the States. I’m going to turn the house upside down when she goes out to the supermarket. We were at a get together a while back and one of the guys there was complaining about his manager doing illegal stuff and that he was thinking of going to the SEC but that he was worried that they would track his phone. She walked him through the process of setting up a burner phone as if she were a pro.



> ETA: Approx how much cash? Maybe hotel money?


$80 per month. For 10 months straight. Always at the end of the month.[/quote]


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> I don’t know. IMHO, the best course of action for me is planting a small GPS device in her bag. I already know she leaves her phone in her desk drawer during most of the day so tracking the phone would be a waste.
> *Bad idea. All women know everything that’s in their purse.*
> 
> That is what I’m doing as soon as I return to the States. I’m going to turn the house upside down when she goes out to the supermarket. We were at a get together a while back and one of the guys there was complaining about his manager doing illegal stuff and that he was thinking of going to the SEC but that he was worried that they would track his phone. She walked him through the process of setting up a burner phone as if she were a pro.
> *Interesting. Why put yourself through all this? *
> 
> $80 per month. For 10 months straight. Always at the end of the month.
> *Smells like hotel money*


Stop dragging your feet and hire a good PI. See an attorney and get a recommendation.
If she is cheating depending on the jurisdiction it may eliminate alimony.
Do you have an end game? Let’s say you find out. That doesn’t mean she’ll stop and be the perfect wife.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

One story the wife was withdrawing a steady amount each month for a couple years. Turns out it was for a massage. A happy ending massage with her AP.


----------



## Gabriel

Sorry to say, this is a full affair.

And she's in lala land so full of dopamine that she doesn't even realize how obvious she is being. 

I think she told you about the coffee date on purpose as a red herring. "I'll tell him we are going for coffee, to show him how forthcoming I am".

I somehow missed why you were in Italy and not her. I thought she went there for the summer and then you flew back together?


----------



## Hurthusband77

I was on another infidelity site and the guy found out his wife had been buying a burner phone each month. She was very skilled at deception…..in this thread, she was spending $80 / month……


----------



## So far so good

JBLH said:


> Now, the issue is that she gets the car parked usually about 5 blocks from the school by 7:30AM. In a neighborhood known for being difficult for finding a spot.


Do you know where Richard lives? Or has properties for sale on that street?

If she’s consistent then it should be easy for a PI. Heck you could have a friend hanging around that spot and reporting to you


----------



## jsmart

This is a full fledged affair. She goes to work early to be with OM. They’re definitely spending their lunches together. She admitted that he was at your house because someone saw them. As for the 80 dollars, it can be for a burner phone. 

She is definitely in wuv with OM, which is why she becoming more blatant with how she pursues him. This is so in your face, yet you seem to doubt what’s right in front if you. What I don’t get, is what is a guy who’s supposedly making big money in real estate doing working at a school?


----------



## sideways

Rus47 said:


> Oh but she loaded up on ‘the cream’ for sure.


Thank you for that visual🤮


----------



## Lotsofheart73

I feel like this was posted before minus the Italy part.
I have no idea how OP has managed to sit by with his wife working in that school district for 7 years after that wedding party. See that’s part of what is sticking in my brain as being posted previously.


----------



## sideways

jsmart said:


> This is a full fledged affair. She goes to work early to be with OM. They’re definitely spending their lunches together. She admitted that he was at your house because someone saw them. As for the 80 dollars, it can be for a burner phone.
> 
> She is definitely in wuv with OM, which is why she becoming more blatant with how she pursues him. This is so in your face, yet you seem to doubt what’s right in front if you. What I don’t get, is what is a guy who’s supposedly making big money in real estate doing working at a school?



D!ck/Rich is working at the school for the health benefits (per OP 1st post). We all know what kind of benefits he's really getting.


----------



## sideways

"She walked him through the process of setting up a burner phone as if she were a pro"?😱😱


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Someone probably already suggested this but , you need to hire a private investigator when you get back home.


----------



## re16

JBLH said:


> She walked him through the process of setting up a burner phone as if she were a pro.


Wow.

80 per month is exactly what a burner would cost.

I can almost guarantee she has the burner with her in Italy.

Sorry this is happening.... If you feel you really want the proof, then do not confront, she will just hide it all and take it underground... wait until you have the evidence.

It won't take long to get rock solid proof.

An air tag in a purse could work as long as you hide it well.

If this is as bad as we are saying, they will be communicating before you return to the US. Get a VAR and plant it in the house or a car there if you have one.


----------



## Tobyboy

Hurthusband77 said:


> I was on another infidelity site and the guy found out his wife had been buying a burner phone each month. She was very skilled at deception…..in this thread, she was spending $80 / month……


Nope, this site just a few threads down.


----------



## Rus47

jsmart said:


> What I don’t get, is what is a guy who’s supposedly making big money in real estate doing working at a school?


She is lying about the guy. And/or OM is lying to her.


----------



## Rus47

Op isnt poor. Just hire a PI for a week and get photos, videos, voice recordings. Get the travesty over with


----------



## Rus47

sideways said:


> D!ck/Rich is working at the school for the health benefits (per OP 1st post). We all know what kind of benefits he's really getting.


**** is getting a “friend” with benefits.😐


----------



## sokillme

JBLH said:


> Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?
> 
> Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).
> 
> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.
> 
> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.
> 
> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”
> 
> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


I will never understand why you guys waste your time with these silly children. The word is trifling. Some guy my wife has been inappropriate with visits while I am away from home? I don't sit her down and explain ****. That talk was before that happened and it when like this. - "I love you to death, but I don't love you enough for you to cheat on me. Be prepared if you do that I will be gone, as in never spoken to again gone, like not sure I was real or just some figment of your imagination." **** that, I will find someone else, hell I like my own company if it comes to that.

Call a lawyer and have her served while you are in Italy. That is what I would do I wouldn't waste my time on this nonsense 20 years of 1. Tell her to get going on getting a lawyer so you can get a jump on it when you get back. Who gives a **** if she is crying. You guys are always way too nice, the time to confront this stuff is as soon as it starts and with no quarter so that the fear of consequence is very real and present.

I wouldn't waste another second of my life dealing with her nonsense. Life is way to short and you don't get the time back. Here's the thing that I know the you don't. I know this from reading these stories for years now. I know it like I know the sun will rise tomorrow. I won't get better, it's already too late. She ruined it. It sucks to live with uncertainty and that is all you have left with her. This will bother you now for 10 years, until after many nights that started off good, but ended with you bickering about this, she finally admits that they kissed. Then repeat that for another 5 years later when you find out it's full blown sex. Then you will be done but at that point your 65. Of course then she will weep about how unfair and awful she was to you, how sorry she is, she may even post on a board just like this one, but it will really only be when she is now facing the rest of her life alone. Better to just cut to the chase and get it over with while you still have better options.

I can't even imagine that going on in my house, and you know who else can't imagine it, my wife.


----------



## recovering2018

Rus47 is absolutely correct about the PI. OP has the resources, so $5K to LEGALLY put this issue to rest is well worth it.
Talk to a lawyer. As a financial analyst, I assume you have all financial ducks in a row.
When you get confirmation of the affair (as you most likely will), file. After it's finalized, feel free to blow up her workplace with your evidence.

Side note: You've already clearly spoken with her about boundaries starting many years ago. She's chosen to ignore and disrespect you anyway, for several years. That alone is more than enough reason to file. I wouldn't put up with it.


----------



## sokillme

recovering2018 said:


> Rus47 is absolutely correct about the PI. OP has the resources, so $5K to LEGALLY put this issue to rest is well worth it.
> Talk to a lawyer. As a financial analyst, I assume you have all financial ducks in a row.
> When you get confirmation of the affair (as you most likely will), file. After it's finalized, feel free to blow up her workplace with your evidence.
> 
> Side note: You've already clearly spoken with her about boundaries starting many years ago. She's chosen to ignore and disrespect you anyway, for several years. That alone is more than enough reason to file. I wouldn't put up with it.


Why waste the money. There are better women out there.


----------



## SnowToArmPits

Hi OP. Sounds frustrating that she always seems one step ahead of you.

Sounds like you can afford to hire a PI to watch what she's up to. A PI should be able to tell you what's going on.


----------



## QuietRiot

JBLH said:


> Gotta be honest though… if she’s seeing this man, I honestly have no idea where they are meeting. She never goes out, is home within 45 minutes of getting out of work (we live 27 miles away from her place of work), et cetera.


Says every betrayed spouse. Sex can literally happen in a closet with 30 spare seconds. The backseat of a car for 8 minutes, a bathroom for 5 minutes. An hourly hotel for 45 minutes. A girls/boys night for 8 hours. A trip to the grocery store for 2 hours (but she actually ordered the groceries on pickup) is it really difficult to imagine there is so much time to cheat? 



JBLH said:


> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances.


It’s sad that you actually believe your wife to be so innocent and stupid you have to explain this to her. I don’t know a single female over the age of 12 that needs to be told this. She seduced him, and she wants to see what her competition and potential life might look like which is why she researched him so thoroughly. She knows exactly who she’s screwing now. This guy must be hard up for an affair high if he’s going all the way to Italy to do it. That’s special. 

You can’t save this. Your wife has no ethics, morals or boundaries in her personal or professional life. You are married to a person who’s already lost to you. I don’t see what kind of extra investigative work is needed, a man was researched, seduced and invited to your vacation home without your knowledge. She’s obsessed with him and flaunts it in your face. It’s over. Even if she stopped cheating, she still works in an environment which will NEVER allow for her to be a decent and committed wife to you again. It’s time to file for divorce. I’m sorry.


----------



## Buzlightyear

You’ve got some investigating to do, that’s for sure. Seems pretty unbelievable. What’s the bedroom dynamic like with you guys?


----------



## DudeInProgress

JBLH said:


> Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?
> 
> Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).
> 
> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.
> 
> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.
> 
> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”
> 
> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


Are you serious? Are you seriously questioning yourself as to whether or not you’re over reacting? 
Should you demand more? What are you talking about, you’ve done nothing so far to take control of the situation or set appropriate boundaries with your wife.

You’ve done a lot of talking but you’ve taken no action. Words mean very little, actions are everything.

Your life clearly has no sense of marital boundaries (or she does and just doesn’t care because he’s enamored with another man), and you have done nothing about it.

At the wedding you mentioned, was your wife giggling about and talking about/considering/intending to dance with other men? If I read that correctly, you need to just start addressing her behavior back then. Sounds like he didn’t.

and after all of this, your only boundaries around the situation is that your wife can’t have coffee dates etc. with this other man? Seriously? 
How about if she wants to remain your wife, there are no dates, no meetings, no personal communications whatsoever. No texts, no phone calls, no messaging, she doesn’t get to maintain a “friendship” with this man if she wants to be in a marriage with you.


----------



## Rus47

QuietRiot said:


> Sex can literally happen in a closet with 30 spare seconds. The backseat of a car for 8 minutes, a bathroom for 5 minutes. An hourly hotel for 45 minutes. A girls/boys night for 8 hours. A trip to the grocery store for 2 hours (but she actually ordered the groceries on pickup) is it really difficult to imagine there is so much time to cheat?


It is amazing. Did these people never have a "quicky"? I would think every married couple has rushed an encounter in 5 minutes when the hormones were racing and company would arrive soon. Surely adults know there are all sorts of opportunities in all sorts of places. 

Did anyone notice OP mentioning she parks her car blocks from work every morning? Isn't Mr **** a real estate "professional"? He has a key to all sorts of locations, maybe one on the street where she parks. He is waiting behind "door number one" in the morning. They have 30 minutes to do the deed, get dressed, and she can walk into work on time.

OP, a PI can sort all of this stuff out for you very quickly. IF you want it sorted out. If not, then carry on.


----------



## ElOtro

LeGenDary_Man said:


> "Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home."


THIS would be enough for me.


----------



## QuietRiot

Rus47 said:


> It is amazing. Did these people never have a "quicky"? I would think every married couple has rushed an encounter in 5 minutes when the hormones were racing and company would arrive soon. Surely adults know there are all sorts of opportunities in all sorts of places.
> 
> Did anyone notice OP mentioning she parks her car blocks from work every morning? Isn't Mr **** a real estate "professional"? He has a key to all sorts of locations, maybe one on the street where she parks. He is waiting behind "door number one" in the morning. They have 30 minutes to do the deed, get dressed, and she can walk into work on time.
> 
> OP, a PI can sort all of this stuff out for you very quickly. IF you want it sorted out. If not, then carry on.


Good point, gives “I have a showing” a whole new meaning. He could be giving her a showing every morning before work at these houses. 

It always amazes me that people know 16 year olds find a way to sneak around but a middle aged person somehow loses that ability? It’s called denial though. I used to convince myself my H was too busy and stressed to ever take on an affair. Now I laugh at my own naïveté. It’s cute how stupid a BS can be isn’t it?


----------



## BoSlander

All, thanks for the advice but I cannot pay a PI without her finding out. Short term I will try to do things myself by planting VARs in the car and house, key logger in the home computer and by checking for burner phones.

Anyone know where the usual hiding spots are for burner phones? I’ve read somewhere else that she will always hide it wherever there’s clutter. As far as the VAR in the car is concerned, where’s the best hiding spot?


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> All, thanks for the advice but I cannot pay a PI without her finding out.


How can this be? You have to account to her for every expenditure? As well as tolerating her doing Richard in your house? This is amazing. I could hire a PI for a week with petty cash from my sock drawer and I am not as wealthy as you are. With a house in Italy I would think you have money laying around everywhere. My wife has always managed our finances but cares nothing about my stash.

BTW, VARs are illegal in some jurisdictions. 

You are the only one who can extricate yourself from where you are. All of the advice in the world will do you no good if you are determined to take no effective action.


----------



## SRCSRC

Do you have a trusted friend that might be able to tail her when she leaves home for work? A poster on another site used that approach quite successfully. I am a BH. I remember those days when I played investigator to catch the ex-WW. It simply turns my stomach that I had to do that. I don't think I would do that again. The fact that your wife works in what seems to be a cesspool of infidelity, that she has developed, minimally, a crush on the OM, and that her recent behavior regarding leaving for work early and not calling you after lunch, would be enough for me to go nuclear. I wouldn't necessarily divorce her yet, but I would sit her down, read her the riot act and give her one chance to come clean. Demand a polygraph regardless of what she says. Make it clear that the status of the marriage is on the line if she fails to tell you the truth or take the polygraph. The threat of the polygraph might make her cough up some additional information. This is what I would do given my past experience. I simply don't have the desire to play games. I am not saying you should do the same. You are in the best position to decide if this approach makes sense at this point in time. If proving infidelity would be beneficial in a divorce, disregard my suggestion. I live in a no-fault divorce state. 

Good luck to you. Hopefully, this is only an EA at this point.


----------



## Rus47

If OP cant find money for PI without his wife finding out, he wont be able to pay to arrange a polygraph.


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> All, thanks for the advice but I cannot pay a PI without her finding out. Short term I will try to do things myself by planting VARs in the car and house, key logger in the home computer and by checking for burner phones.
> 
> Anyone know where the usual hiding spots are for burner phones? I’ve read somewhere else that she will always hide it wherever there’s clutter. As far as the VAR in the car is concerned, where’s the best hiding spot?


Get a good VAR, they aren’t expensive. Read up on how they operate. Some have an activated sound that you need to turn of. Get good batteries and Velcro them under the seat in the car. It might be a good idea to get 2 so you can swap them out.

As far as burner phones, in the car somewhere (one guy found one under his spare tire). Purses, coat pockets, etc. If she doesn’t have it on her,

The main thing is keep your mouth shut.


----------



## Marc878

sokillme said:


> I will never understand why you guys waste your time with these silly children. The word is trifling. Some guy my wife has been inappropriate with visits while I am away from home? I don't sit her down and explain **. That talk was before that happened and it when like this. - "I love you to death, but I don't love you enough for you to cheat on me. Be prepared if you do that I will be gone, as in never spoken to again gone, like not sure I was real or just some figment of your imagination." ** that, I will find someone else, hell I like my own company if it comes to that.
> 
> Call a lawyer and have her served while you are in Italy. That is what I would do I wouldn't waste my time on this nonsense 20 years of 1. Tell her to get going on getting a lawyer so you can get a jump on it when you get back. Who gives a **** if she is crying. You guys are always way too nice, the time to confront this stuff is as soon as it starts and with no quarter so that the fear of consequence is very real and present.
> 
> I wouldn't waste another second of my life dealing with her nonsense. Life is way to short and you don't get the time back. Here's the thing that I know the you don't. I know this from reading these stories for years now. I know it like I know the sun will rise tomorrow. I won't get better, it's already too late. She ruined it. It sucks to live with uncertainty and that is all you have left with her. This will bother you now for 10 years, until after many nights that started off good, but ended with you bickering about this, she finally admits that they kissed. Then repeat that for another 5 years later when you find out it's full blown sex. Then you will be done but at that point your 65. Of course then she will weep about how unfair and awful she was to you, how sorry she is, she may even post on a board just like this one, but it will really only be when she is now facing the rest of her life alone. Better to just cut to the chase and get it over with while you still have better options.
> 
> I can't even imagine that going on in my house, and you know who else can't imagine it, my wife.


How many OP’s have filed for divorce without some sort of proof? I can’t think of one and I’ve been here 7 years.


----------



## cocolo2019

JBLH said:


> All, thanks for the advice but I cannot pay a PI without her finding out. Short term I will try to do things myself by planting VARs in the car and house, key logger in the home computer and by checking for burner phones.
> 
> Anyone know where the usual hiding spots are for burner phones? I’ve read somewhere else that she will always hide it wherever there’s clutter. As far as the VAR in the car is concerned, where’s the best hiding spot?


Good OP. But before do anything follow the recommendations here for the VARs. You don't want it to make a beep sound while your wife is driving. 

Also, check your antivirus first before installing the keylogger. Some antivirus programs make popup alerts when there's a keylogger installed in a computer.


----------



## QuietRiot

Marc878 said:


> How many OP’s have filed for divorce without some sort of proof? I can’t think of one and I’ve been here 7 years.


Is having a man in your vacation home across the world with your wife when she was researching everything including the size of his jock strap not enough proof? This woman is HORRID.


----------



## Marc878

QuietRiot said:


> Is having a man in your vacation home across the world with your wife when she was researching everything including the size of his jock strap not enough proof? This woman is HORRID.


I don’t disagree. It wasn’t a coincidence either. It doesn’t change my statement though.
How many have you seen divorce over something like that, gut feelings or red flags?


----------



## Trident

Lotsofheart73 said:


> I feel like this was posted before minus the Italy part.


That's because it happens every day. Even if I understand your deeper meaning which I cannot elaborate on because it's against the forum TOS, it really doesn't matter because there's definitely someone reading this who is being cheated on right now even if it's not the Op, who will find such threads to be a lifesaver, even if the original intent of this thread was not to seek advise.


----------



## Marc878

Trident said:


> That's because it happens every day. Even if I understand your deeper meaning which I cannot elaborate on because it's against the forum TOS, it really doesn't matter because there's definitely someone reading this who is being cheated on right now even if it's not the Op, who will find such threads to be a lifesaver, even if the original intent of this thread was not to seek advise.


Yep, they all follow a pattern.


----------



## QuietRiot

Marc878 said:


> I don’t disagree. It wasn’t a coincidence either. It doesn’t change my statement though.
> How many have you seen divorce over something like that, gut feelings or red flags?


I’m not sure, I’ve seen divorces over much less and no divorce with solid evidence in hand… I think just in his particular case, she is a real piece of work and there is no coming back from this level of disrespect even if she didn’t have sex with the guy. (Though she did and in the bed OP is sleeping on tonight.)

Im starting to really grow disgusted with the people in this world. There is never an end of people who just don’t give a **** is there.


----------



## Rob_1

JBLH said:


> As far as the VAR in the car is concerned, where’s the best hiding spot?


Under the driver's seat with strong tape so it doesn't come undone. 

Very important: you need to attach an earphones plug to the connection (you need this to mute any beeping or sounds. Cut the L/R cords, you just need to plug the connection. Test before installing it in her car. Forget about illegality. You can't use it in court. Is just for you, as long as she doesn't find out you're OK.


----------



## QuietRiot

Rob_1 said:


> Forget about illegality. You can't use it in court.


Also, if it’s a felony in your state… make sure you’re willing to take the risk of going to prison if your wife decides to press charges.


----------



## Evinrude58

Please keep your mouth shut. Then move to an at fault state with your wife. Figure out a reason abd a way. Now that you know you can easily catch her abd get proof. Then divorce her. No point in paying her cash and prizes for screwing other men.


----------



## QuietRiot

Evinrude58 said:


> Please keep your mouth shut. Then move to an at fault state with your wife. Figure out a reason abd a way. Now that you know you can easily catch her abd get proof. Then divorce her. No point in paying her cash and prizes for screwing other men.


Hey that’s actually a good plan… if he can get her to move away from her **** boy.


----------



## sokillme

Marc878 said:


> How many OP’s have filed for divorce without some sort of proof? I can’t think of one and I’ve been here 7 years.


Not many but that doesn't mean he isn't going to suffer for years trying to find it if he doesn't. I am just saying, I came here maybe a year before you did (has it been that long) and after a while you just know how this is going to turn out. If he doesn't leave this will haunt him for the rest of the marriage. There is nothing that says to me it's worth it.


----------



## Wolfman1968

JBLH said:


> Gotta be honest though… if she’s seeing this man, I honestly have no idea where they are meeting. She never goes out, is home within 45 minutes of getting out of work (we live 27 miles away from her place of work), et cetera.


Assuming she actually WENT to work that day. What if she periodically takes a day off, or if there is a shortened school/work day she doesn't tell you about. She may ARRIVE at home at the expected time, but that doesn't necessarily mean you know from where and when she started her trip home.


----------



## Laurentium

By the way, I think polygraphs are BS. Apart from that I agree.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Laurentium said:


> By the way, I think polygraphs are BS. Apart from that I agree.


i agree all you have is the treat of it


----------



## BoSlander

Wolfman1968 said:


> Assuming she actually WENT to work that day. What if she periodically takes a day off, or if there is a shortened school/work day she doesn't tell you about. She may ARRIVE at home at the expected time, but that doesn't necessarily mean you know from where and when she started her trip home.


I have to check this out… She’s always been secretive about her check stubs. Not only that, she seems extremely reluctant to call in sick, even when the weather invites for a WFH day. Odd. Extremely odd. She always complains about other employees calling in sick all the time, while she may call in 2-3 times a year. I always tell her:”just call in sick or take a personal! You have plenty of sick days left right?” To what she always says “yes.” But now this got me thinking.

You know what? The more I inform myself of all of this, the more I realize she may have done this more than one time in the past. I mean… she started liking reaggeton out of the blue. I was like… WTF! Huh?!

I’ve always been very suspicious of some of her female co workers… they have a chatroom and they chat all the time. Two of them are recently divorced and their chats are extremely hostile toward men. The others talk about this guy Maluma and this other looney Daddy Yankee and they seem to use euphemisms to hide stuff. My wife hardly engages but she has hinted about a meeting, which I was able to decipher to mean they were all going to an after school year pool party.

My suspicion is that they have information on each other and have some sort of “divine secrets of the yaya sisterhood” thing going. They are so dumb they can’t see they’re going to end up living with cats and dogs. The two oldest in the group have not been able to have a constant relationship for more than a few months. They’re so drunk in their “female power” BS they can’t see what awaits them.

Holy ****ing ****!

I. Cannot. Believe. I. Have. To. Lower. Myself. And. Do. This.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> I. Cannot. Believe. I. Have. To. Lower. Myself. And. Do. This.


You only have to accept what you tolerate. You could file for divorce tomorrow. Let her try to "save the marriage" if she has any interest. Divorce takes awhile so can be stopped at any time. Most attorneys have access to a PI agency, so it is a one stop shop. In to the attorney, tell him your suspicions, get the papers drafted and serve her. 

Or continue to lower yourself


----------



## Marc878

sokillme said:


> Not many but that doesn't mean he isn't going to suffer for years trying to find it if he doesn't. I am just saying, I came here maybe a year before you did (has it been that long) and after a while you just know how this is going to turn out. If he doesn't leave this will haunt him for the rest of the marriage. There is nothing that says to me it's worth it.


I came here in 2015. I haven’t seen one pull the trigger on your parameters. 
While it looks very clear to us is a different discussion.


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> I have to check this out… She’s always been secretive about her check stubs. Not only that, she seems extremely reluctant to call in sick, even when the weather invites for a WFH day. Odd. Extremely odd. She always complains about other employees calling in sick all the time, while she may call in 2-3 times a year. I always tell her:”just call in sick or take a personal! You have plenty of sick days left right?” To what she always says “yes.” But now this got me thinking.
> 
> You know what? The more I inform myself of all of this, the more I realize she may have done this more than one time in the past. I mean… she started liking reaggeton out of the blue. I was like… WTF! Huh?!
> 
> I’ve always been very suspicious of some of her female co workers… they have a chatroom and they chat all the time. Two of them are recently divorced and their chats are extremely hostile toward men. The others talk about this guy Maluma and this other looney Daddy Yankee and they seem to use euphemisms to hide stuff. My wife hardly engages but she has hinted about a meeting, which I was able to decipher to mean they were all going to an after school year pool party.
> 
> My suspicion is that they have information on each other and have some sort of “divine secrets of the yaya sisterhood” thing going. They are so dumb they can’t see they’re going to end up living with cats and dogs. The two oldest in the group have not been able to have a constant relationship for more than a few months. They’re so drunk in their “female power” BS they can’t see what awaits them.
> 
> Holy f-cking s-it!
> 
> I. Cannot. Believe. I. Have. To. Lower. Myself. And. Do. This.


That’s why everyone is telling you to find a way to get a PI. Unless you can pull the trigger on what you know now. 
Usually what you know is the tip of the iceberg.
What is your endgame if it’s what it looks like? You’d better put some thought into that.


----------



## Sfort

OM has your wife’s ear AND other body parts.


----------



## BoSlander

Marc878 said:


> What is your endgame if it’s what it looks like?


Easy: shut up and listen. I hate not having any control over my family/environment and especially my wife. I have to do something. Since I know a PI is out of the question, short term, until all other options have been exhausted and how difficult it is going to be collecting information in such a closed and secretive group (school environment,) the plan is (roughly) the following:

1) VAR in the bottom of the car’s driver seat + hidden camera behind home computer + key logger in home computer + monitor seat placement in car to ensure no one else sat in the passenger seat + monitor the car’s moves;

2) monitor her period and check for tampons during non period days + check her underwear for signs of residual stains/or her washing her clothes as soon as she comes through the door;

3) check the house for burner/prepaid phones or prepaid cards or any other devices used to communicate via text/voice;

4) check payment stubs to make sure she’s not taking days off to see the OM;

If the above checks fail to generate any information;

4) place a very small GPS device in her bag and monitor her movements once she’s near the school;

5) try to “recruit” someone in the school (maintenance guy) that can monitor her “visits” from the inside;

If the above two checks fail to generate any feedback;

6) take a few days off, rent a car and shadow her moves. If I see her exiting or entering the building with a male, get his name and place a GPS device in his car.

I’ll try this for a couple of months and, if nothing productive comes up but the red flags are still there, contract a PI.

She keeps on inviting me to monitor her iPhone, so monitoring is a waste of time. 

If the PI tells me he/she couldn’t find anything, I will desist.


----------



## Laurentium

JBLH said:


> 5) try to “recruit” someone in the school (maintenance guy) that can monitor her “visits” from the inside;
> 
> 6) take a few days off, rent a car and shadow her moves. If I see her exiting or entering the building with a male, get his name and place a GPS device in his car.


I think this kind of amateur sleuthing is going to cause you all kinds of problems. 



> and *place a GPS device in his car*.


I find it hard to believe you're serious!


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> 6) take a few days off, rent a car and shadow her moves. If I see her exiting or entering the building with a male, get his name and place a GPS device in his car.


I may be wrong, but doing this may get you arrested and criminally charged. If the male sees you planting something in his car, you also might end up in hospital. 

You aren't a PI, but you are trying to pretend to be one. The real investigators know what is legal and what isn't. 



JBLH said:


> I hate not having any control over my family/environment and especially my wife.


You know of course the only person you can ever really control is yourself. Your wife will do ( and is doing ) what she pleases


----------



## Rus47

Laurentium said:


> *I think this kind of amateur sleuthing is going to cause you all kinds of problems.*


He will go from having a lying cheating wife to being arrested, beat up, and unemployed. And still have a lying cheating wife.

Why is the simple answer so hard to accept? And the simple method of approaching it so difficult to do?


----------



## pastasauce79

JBLH said:


> All, thanks for the advice but I cannot pay a PI without her finding out. Short term I will try to do things myself by planting VARs in the car and house, key logger in the home computer and by checking for burner phones.
> 
> Anyone know where the usual hiding spots are for burner phones? I’ve read somewhere else that she will always hide it wherever there’s clutter. As far as the VAR in the car is concerned, where’s the best hiding spot?


If you have WiFi you can see devices connected through your modem. You can also use the Bluetooth and hotspot on your cellphone to see other devices. 

The thing is, you can buy an unlocked cellphone in the US and buy a sim card and a plan in another country. It's easy. 

You don't know how they are communicating, but meeting in Italy takes a lot of planning and spending. I don't have coworkers meeting me in my home country for coffee.... This is crazy!


----------



## Works

JBLH said:


> Easy: shut up and listen. I hate not having any control over my family/environment and especially my wife. I have to do something. Since I know a PI is out of the question, short term, until all other options have been exhausted and how difficult it is going to be collecting information in such a closed and secretive group (school environment,) the plan is (roughly) the following:
> 
> 1) VAR in the bottom of the car’s driver seat + hidden camera behind home computer + key logger in home computer + monitor seat placement in car to ensure no one else sat in the passenger seat + monitor the car’s moves;
> 
> 2) monitor her period and check for tampons during non period days + check her underwear for signs of residual stains/or her washing her clothes as soon as she comes through the door;
> 
> 3) check the house for burner/prepaid phones or prepaid cards or any other devices used to communicate via text/voice;
> 
> 4) check payment stubs to make sure she’s not taking days off to see the OM;
> 
> If the above checks fail to generate any information;
> 
> 4) place a very small GPS device in her bag and monitor her movements once she’s near the school;
> 
> 5) try to “recruit” someone in the school (maintenance guy) that can monitor her “visits” from the inside;
> 
> If the above two checks fail to generate any feedback;
> 
> 6) take a few days off, rent a car and shadow her moves. If I see her exiting or entering the building with a male, get his name and place a GPS device in his car.
> 
> I’ll try this for a couple of months and, if nothing productive comes up but the red flags are still there, contract a PI.
> 
> She keeps on inviting me to monitor her iPhone, so monitoring is a waste of time.
> 
> If the PI tells me he/she couldn’t find anything, I will desist.


Please DO NOT try and play PI. I know this from experience because once upon a time, I worked for some. There's a lot of legality that you'd have to verse yourself in. Also, whatever you find, on your own will most likely NOT be admissible in court. I understand peace of mind, but trust me... if you find her with someone else, peace of mind goes out the door and your adrenaline will kick in.... people do stupid, stupid stuff when that happens and then they sit in a jail cell saying, I should've stayed home that day, I should've never done that, I can't believe it.. . Etc.

ETA: When a case of infidelity was worked, we NEVER gave details until the day after to the spouse to avoid something disastrous happening. Also, more times than most, even WITH the details/proof... some spouses still stayed with the WW/WH.. I absolutely despised working those cases for that reason. I remember saying once to my co-worker, if you feel they're cheating, they most likely are, why are we working this again?


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> Easy: shut up and listen. I hate not having any control over my family/environment and especially my wife. I have to do something. Since I know a PI is out of the question, short term, until all other options have been exhausted and how difficult it is going to be collecting information in such a closed and secretive group (school environment,) the plan is (roughly) the following:
> 
> 1) VAR in the bottom of the car’s driver seat + hidden camera behind home computer + key logger in home computer + monitor seat placement in car to ensure no one else sat in the passenger seat + monitor the car’s moves;
> 
> 2) monitor her period and check for tampons during non period days + check her underwear for signs of residual stains/or her washing her clothes as soon as she comes through the door;
> 
> 3) check the house for burner/prepaid phones or prepaid cards or any other devices used to communicate via text/voice;
> 
> 4) check payment stubs to make sure she’s not taking days off to see the OM;
> 
> If the above checks fail to generate any information;
> 
> 4) place a very small GPS device in her bag and monitor her movements once she’s near the school;
> *Real bad idea. Women know exactly what’s in their purse *
> 5) try to “recruit” someone in the school (maintenance guy) that can monitor her “visits” from the inside;
> *Good way to tip your hand. I wouldn’t trust this *
> If the above two checks fail to generate any feedback;
> 
> 6) take a few days off, rent a car and shadow her moves. If I see her exiting or entering the building with a male, get his name and place a GPS device in his car.
> *Seriously? A real bad idea in many ways. If there is an OM that is not your main problem.*
> 
> I’ll try this for a couple of months and, if nothing productive comes up but the red flags are still there, contract a PI.
> 
> She keeps on inviting me to monitor her iPhone, so monitoring is a waste of time.
> 
> If the PI tells me he/she couldn’t find anything, I will desist.


Sorry but marriage shouldn’t be this hard. Sounds incredibly long and drawn out. It’ll affect you mentally and your work functions. Is cheating if that’s what it is a deal breaker or not?
What’s your end game. Many seem to think if they get proof they’ll stop and everything will go back to normal. Faulty thinking.


----------



## Gabriel

F all of that.

I'd bluff.

"Honey, we need to talk."

"I'm not going to say how I know, but I know you're having an affair. I have contacted an attorney, who is on call. I've got everything I need lined up, just in case this conversation goes a certain way."

"Now, I can call that off, tell them to stand down, if you just tell me the truth. I think I deserve that much."


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Marc878 said:


> Sorry but marriage shouldn’t be this hard. Sounds incredibly long and drawn out. It’ll affect you mentally and your work functions. Is cheating if that’s what it is a deal breaker or not?
> What’s your end game. Many seem to think if they get proof they’ll stop and everything will go back to normal. Faulty thinking.


He's on hopium and is praying it hasn't actually gone physical and he can salvage his marriage. It is a false hope. It was over when she became the OMs stalker learning everything she could. The writing was on the wall when he saw how she behaved like a school girl with a crush at that wedding 7 years ago. Behavior that is part of the culture at her workplace. It is ingrained in her. I would actually be surprised if this was her first affair. And yes @JBLH this is already an affair, her latest one. Sorry this is your situation. It breaks my heart, seriously.


----------



## Works

Gabriel said:


> F all of that.
> 
> I'd bluff.
> 
> "Honey, we need to talk."
> 
> "I'm not going to say how I know, but I know you're having an affair. I have contacted an attorney, who is on call. I've got everything I need lined up, just in case this conversation goes a certain way."
> 
> "Now, I can call that off, tell them to stand down, if you just tell me the truth. I think I deserve that much."


I did something similar to my exH... Looking back it was hilarious. He thought I was having him followed. I said dude, are you cheating on me? He responds with no.. then I said, so then you shouldn't be yelling and screaming at me over the phone. All my friend did was take a picture of our driveway (I was out of town and had this feeling based on talking to my ex that something was going on) and when he sent it, I saw a car in the driveway that was NOT mine. Turned out to be the coworker I'd suspected all along... the following Monday he filed for divorce and the Monday after she did. He lined up a new place for himself and moved her in.

Follow your gut, OP.. The proof is in the coffee already.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Gabriel said:


> F all of that.
> 
> I'd bluff.
> 
> "Honey, we need to talk."
> 
> "I'm not going to say how I know, but I know you're having an affair. I have contacted an attorney, who is on call. I've got everything I need lined up, just in case this conversation goes a certain way."
> 
> "Now, I can call that off, tell them to stand down, if you just tell me the truth. I think I deserve that much."


 I would go with all this post as the way to go without the line ""Now, I can call that off, tell them to stand down, if you just tell me the truth."

This makes it look like you know nothing,
Replace with " why " and let her come clean or not , it is a gamble but with some of the other spy things I would first think the car is not going to tell much , and the hand bag is risky , there is a way of using your iphone to do a lot in the car and you can say you lost it


----------



## Marc878

Gabriel said:


> F all of that.
> 
> I'd bluff.
> 
> "Honey, we need to talk."
> 
> "I'm not going to say how I know, but I know you're having an affair. I have contacted an attorney, who is on call. I've got everything I need lined up, just in case this conversation goes a certain way."
> 
> "Now, I can call that off, tell them to stand down, if you just tell me the truth. I think I deserve that much."


Cheaters always lie a lot. Most often they will only admit to what you can prove.
It appears to me he has no end game. Which means a longer stay in self inflicted limbo.


----------



## jsmart

Rus47 said:


> She is lying about the guy. And/or OM is lying to her.


Yea, I don’t buy the working a school for health benefits. If he’s really successful in real estate, he can make better use his time in his industry to make the money it takes to buy insurance, than to work in a school. I suspect that he’s either not as successful as he is portraying to your WW. He could be living in a great house because of a something he’s able to workout with a client or he’s working there simply to get access to his wife. With her being so much younger than him, that can be a big draw for him. 

With the amount of time and effort that she blatantly spends to be with OM, one thing is obvious; in her heart, she is his girl. He has more than enough to just file for divorce and go his own way. I would get with a lawyer that can help with getting your finances in order to reduce the amount of cash and prizes the “family” courts will reward her adultery with.


----------



## Gabriel

frenchpaddy said:


> I would go with all this post as the way to go without the line ""Now, I can call that off, tell them to stand down, if you just tell me the truth."
> 
> This makes it look like you know nothing,
> Replace with " why " and let her come clean or not , it is a gamble but with some of the other spy things I would first think the car is not going to tell much , and the hand bag is risky , there is a way of using your iphone to do a lot in the car and you can say you lost it


Yes, this is better. I agree.

There are so many red flags here it's not even funny. I don't think he needs any more proof. 

When confronted, the wife will either:

1) be defensive and deny it, call him crazy, etc. (gaslighting)
2) start the water works and beg him not to leave her
3) get defiant and upset 
4) respond in stunned silence

#1 is the toughest one, and the risk OP takes with my bluff idea. That's why when he does it he has to be extremely confident about it. In his shoes I'd be very calm and firm, not angry and emotional. More "look, it's okay. I know." If she still does #1, you can just walk away from the conversation - she'll chase you and ask a lot of questions. "Why would you think this? What did I do?" Etc. etc. At this point you can just say something like, "burner phones for one". And that's it. Don't reveal the rest.

If #2 or #4, you know she's guilty

#3 means she either is in the affair and HATES that you've broken up here little cake eating. Or, she's already an angry wife who's showing her true colors as a person (which she pretty much always has anyway)


----------



## TinyTbone

JBLH said:


> Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?
> 
> Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).
> 
> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.
> 
> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.
> 
> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”
> 
> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


Welcome to the worst part of marriage, sadly. Look I've been married 38 years today. I am sure my wife had at least 1 affair a long time ago. I'm good with that, because I did give her a "hall pass" of sorts due to the fact she was in the prime of her twenties and I was deploying in the Navy and leaving her alone to face the world for long periods of time. What ever she may have done, she kept with the terms of the pass. There have been times later on that things have gotten confusing for us. In the late 90s I had an ea in a chat room. Internet was new and novel. I didn't realize what I was really doing. I did tell her and she actually contacted the person. I had no idea how badly I'd hurt her at the time. Fast forward many years and now we have a teen daughter. She has shown erratic emotional behavior. I'm not the jealous type, but do have boundaries that I have and do voice. I do not control her friendships. We all have to be a part of this work outside of each other. Twice she has, as I say...gotten revenge for that ea by emailing with a guy supposedly on an oil rig off the coast of France. She got me involved as a joke, cuz she saw he was obviously faking his id. The next time it occured was with a guy in our town through FB. Somehow he friended her then started making what any man would call salacious texts to her going so far to explain the size of his member to her. Our daughter, then 15 had a big argument with her about this as well. She said she let him know without doubt she was "happily" married. Yet he continued to text and she continued to respond. Several times when I knew of this I demanded to know why she had not cut him off and blocked him. No legit response. She never showed me the thread. She deleted. I joked about it recently how many **** pics he sent her. She got mad and defensive. Obviously she denied any pics either way. Maybe I'm a fool, but I'm still with her and coping with holes of knowledge and hidden things.


----------



## Jimi007

Thread jack.....


----------



## cocolo2019

JBLH said:


> Easy: shut up and listen. I hate not having any control over my family/environment and especially my wife. I have to do something. Since I know a PI is out of the question, short term, until all other options have been exhausted and how difficult it is going to be collecting information in such a closed and secretive group (school environment,) the plan is (roughly) the following:
> 
> 1) VAR in the bottom of the car’s driver seat + hidden camera behind home computer + key logger in home computer + monitor seat placement in car to ensure no one else sat in the passenger seat + monitor the car’s moves;
> 
> 2) monitor her period and check for tampons during non period days + check her underwear for signs of residual stains/or her washing her clothes as soon as she comes through the door;
> 
> 3) check the house for burner/prepaid phones or prepaid cards or any other devices used to communicate via text/voice;
> 
> 4) check payment stubs to make sure she’s not taking days off to see the OM;
> 
> If the above checks fail to generate any information;
> 
> 4) place a very small GPS device in her bag and monitor her movements once she’s near the school;
> 
> 5) try to “recruit” someone in the school (maintenance guy) that can monitor her “visits” from the inside;
> 
> If the above two checks fail to generate any feedback;
> 
> 6) take a few days off, rent a car and shadow her moves. If I see her exiting or entering the building with a male, get his name and place a GPS device in his car.
> 
> I’ll try this for a couple of months and, if nothing productive comes up but the red flags are still there, contract a PI.
> 
> She keeps on inviting me to monitor her iPhone, so monitoring is a waste of time.
> 
> If the PI tells me he/she couldn’t find anything, I will desist.


OP, remember to delete your browsing history and anything related to this website. You don't want your wife to know you're onto her.


----------



## drencrom

JBLH said:


> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


No you are not freaking out. Obviously there is something here. It should be really easy to tell Richard, "we really need to keep this professional and things like coffee and lunch/dinner dates are not appropriate nor would I be respecting my husband in doing so".

So what did she say to those demands? If I was with someone and she told me the same thing you told her, it wouldn't be any problem for me to tell another woman that we need to keep it professional.


----------



## drencrom

JBLH said:


> She knows I know a couple of things but only because she told me. She does not know I also know because I checked the browsing history.
> 
> Am I stupid or something? I don’t find it normal that she would be so infatuated with this guy that she’d spend hours finding information about him on the internet. It’s almost like she’s fantasizing about him…


You show her the browsing history and ask her why she was looking him up. Then when she gives you a garbage excuse, tell her "bulls***" and that you know she has a thing for him.


----------



## drencrom

JBLH said:


> 5) try to “recruit” someone in the school (maintenance guy) that can monitor her “visits” from the inside;


I would axe this one. It could backfire. You recruit this person, then he/she goes and tells your wife what you are doing.


----------



## drencrom

Gabriel said:


> F all of that.
> 
> I'd bluff.
> 
> "Honey, we need to talk."
> 
> "I'm not going to say how I know, but I know you're having an affair. I have contacted an attorney, who is on call. I've got everything I need lined up, just in case this conversation goes a certain way."
> 
> "Now, I can call that off, tell them to stand down, if you just tell me the truth. I think I deserve that much."


Yes, I'd do this. Bluff at her, if she is having an affair she'll panic.


----------



## re16

If she has a burner, she may use it in her car. Go to the bluetooth settings of the car and see how many phones are setup...


----------



## Marc878

I’m sure anything that he asks her she’ll answer truthfully. 😂🤣


----------



## pastasauce79

JBLH said:


> I mean… she started liking reaggeton out of the blue. I was like… WTF! Huh?!


I'm Hispanic and absolutely hate reggaeton! It really gives latin music a bad name. 



JBLH said:


> The others talk about this guy Maluma and this other looney Daddy Yankee and they seem to use euphemisms to hide stuff.


Maluma's lyrics are very sexual. Daddy Yankee is a little better, but I don't listen to it too much anyway, because their lyrics suck! You won't see me at one of their sold out concerts. 🤮


----------



## Captain Obvious

OP, did your Kid ever say anything about anyone, anyone at all being in your vacation home while you were gone,or his mom going out with anybody while you weren’t there?


----------



## Works

Captain Obvious said:


> OP, did your Kid ever say anything about anyone, anyone at all being in your vacation home while you were gone,or his mom going out with anybody while you weren’t there?


Makes me wonder how old the son is also.


----------



## BoSlander

drencrom said:


> No you are not freaking out. Obviously there is something here. It should be really easy to tell Richard, "we really need to keep this professional and things like coffee and lunch/dinner dates are not appropriate nor would I be respecting my husband in doing so".


She basically agreed to my demands, but I don’t know how committed she is to adhering to the demands. I really, for the love of God, hope she really puts up an emotional wall. The main problem is that she works in a school setting and there’s literally nothing I can do to prevent the marriage from going down the drain. I really don’t know how emotionally invested she is in this guy. Every time I ask her things all I get from her is crying, defensiveness and blame shifting. It’s emotionally draining. I’m writing this from a beach overseas… everyone is happy and having a blast and I’m so miserable I would take the next flight back to the US and leave were I given a chance (tried but it’d cost me $3000).




> So what did she say to those demands? If I was with someone and she told me the same thing you told her, it wouldn't be any problem for me to tell another woman that we need to keep it professional.


She essentially agreed she royally messed up, that her actions are the same actions a cheater would take BUT keeps insisting she meant good and that the conversation was entirely about work (in July!) and nothing else. I basically asked her to stop punking me, TO RESPECT ME, that I am the father to her child and the one that put a roof over her head but all I get is crying and crickets. I asked her why she wouldn’t say anything about this meeting from Tuesday to Saturday and… she doesn’t know. A grown a** adult can’t answer a simple question. Unreal.

Should I confront the co-worker? I have his phone #.


----------



## re16

JBLH said:


> I really, for the love of God, hope she really puts up an emotional wall. The main problem is that she works in a school setting and there’s literally nothing I can do to prevent the marriage from going down the drain. I really don’t know how emotionally invested she is in this guy. Every time I ask her things all I get from her is crying, defensiveness and blame shifting. It’s emotionally draining. I’m writing this from a beach overseas… everyone is happy and having a blast and I’m so miserable I would take the next flight back to the US and le
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She essentially agreed she royally messed up, that her actions are the same actions a cheater would take BUT keeps insisting she meant good and that the conversation was entirely about work (in July!) and nothing else. I basically asked her to stop punking me, that I am the father to her child and the one that put a roof over her head but all I get is crying and crickets. I asked her why she wouldn’t say anything about this meeting from Tuesday to Saturday and… she doesn’t know. A grown a** adult hiding behind childish behavior. Unreal.


I think you should go home. Since you are confronting her already, you need to go home and do more re-con if that is what you need to do to find proof of the affair, if you need that to divorce.

Does she act like she didn't plan this meeting in Italy? How would he even know she was there?

The burner is there with her... find it.


----------



## Gabriel

JBLH said:


> She basically agreed to my demands, but I don’t know how committed she is to adhering to the demands. I really, for the love of God, hope she really puts up an emotional wall. The main problem is that she works in a school setting and there’s literally nothing I can do to prevent the marriage from going down the drain. I really don’t know how emotionally invested she is in this guy. Every time I ask her things all I get from her is crying, defensiveness and blame shifting. It’s emotionally draining. I’m writing this from a beach overseas… everyone is happy and having a blast and I’m so miserable I would take the next flight back to the US and leave were I given a chance (tried but it’d cost me $3000).
> 
> 
> She essentially agreed she royally messed up, that her actions are the same actions a cheater would take BUT keeps insisting she meant good and that the conversation was entirely about work (in July!) and nothing else. I basically asked her to stop punking me, that I am the father to her child and the one that put a roof over her head but all I get is crying and crickets. I asked her why she wouldn’t say anything about this meeting from Tuesday to Saturday and… she doesn’t know. A grown a** adult hiding behind childish behavior. Unreal.


This is confusing. You've already confronted her and made demands? She's already crying about this? I feel I missed a whole chapter somewhere.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Works said:


> Makes me wonder how old the son is also.


I think he said their kid was early teens.


----------



## Works

Captain Obvious said:


> I think he said their kid was early teens.


Thank you.


----------



## BoSlander

Gabriel said:


> This is confusing. You've already confronted her and made demands? She's already crying about this? I feel I missed a whole chapter somewhere.


That’s ok… I did confront her… she told me she had met with the guy in the car, on the way to our home from the airport. I obviously made a stink when she told me and the argument spilled into the home and night.


----------



## BoSlander

Captain Obvious said:


> I think he said their kid was early teens.


Want to hear the f**** up part? My 12 year old heard us arguing and demanded we tell him WTH was going on. She did and he immediately said “dad is right.”


----------



## Evinrude58

You don’t answer many questions. Did dock meet her in Italy at your home?


----------



## Works

JBLH said:


> Want to hear the f**** up part? My 12 year old heard us arguing and demanded we tell him WTH was going on. She did and he immediately said “dad is right.”


If you know all of this is going on, and you have the funds, what are you still doing in Italy instead of rushing home to handle business in person?


----------



## QuietRiot

JBLH said:


> She basically agreed to my demands, but I don’t know how committed she is to adhering to the demands. I really, for the love of God, hope she really puts up an emotional wall. The main problem is that she works in a school setting and there’s literally nothing I can do to prevent the marriage from going down the drain. I really don’t know how emotionally invested she is in this guy. Every time I ask her things all I get from her is crying, defensiveness and blame shifting. It’s emotionally draining. I’m writing this from a beach overseas… everyone is happy and having a blast and I’m so miserable I would take the next flight back to the US and leave were I given a chance (tried but it’d cost me $3000).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She essentially agreed she royally messed up, that her actions are the same actions a cheater would take BUT keeps insisting she meant good and that the conversation was entirely about work (in July!) and nothing else. I basically asked her to stop punking me, TO RESPECT ME, that I am the father to her child and the one that put a roof over her head but all I get is crying and crickets. I asked her why she wouldn’t say anything about this meeting from Tuesday to Saturday and… she doesn’t know. A grown a** adult can’t answer a simple question. Unreal.
> 
> Should I confront the co-worker? I have his phone #.


I’ve never needed a male coworker to come visit me on vacation in another country to talk about work. As a matter of fact if someone suggested it I’d tell them to get bent, I’m on vacation dammit. 

She could EASILY answer your questions, she just chooses not to. Why do you think that is?




Evinrude58 said:


> You don’t answer many questions. Did dock meet her in Italy at your home?


He did come to their vacation home while the kid was asleep, I believe he said that somewhere along the way. They were “discussing work” at night, in Italy, on summer break, in her family vacation home.


----------



## SRCSRC

Sadly, it looks like you are dealing with a PA. Her reaction of crying and refusing to answer your questions says it all. Is she willing to take the polygraph? If she truly has had either a serious EA or a PA, the first condition of reconciliation is for her to leave her job IMMEDIATELY. If you intend to divorce, that becomes a moot point. At this point I would have a little conversation with the OM. Do it by phone and not in person. He will probably feed you crap, but it should put a scare in the POS that his actions will have consequences. In fact, I would tell him that clearly. Be prepared to out them with their personnel department but first check with a lawyer. In fact, it looks like it is time to see a lawyer to assess your options. I'd make that clear to your lovely wife..


----------



## Rus47

SRCSRC said:


> At this point I would have a little conversation with the OM.


The ONLY reason to have a conversation with OM is to find out what his story is, to compare with hers. OM wasn’t the instigator here. No way OP should confront him about anything. His wife wanted OM and got him. She arranged the whole damned thing to happen before OP arrived. I would even bet she paid OMs airfare.

Remember, she researched her target well. I wonder what D!ks real name is, and what pseudonym amongst the girls club at work. Proly call him “Big D”.

BTW, my money says this aint her first rodeo. I am betting she started riding the wild bulls about 7 years ago and just got more brazen from not being caught.

OP, if you peel the onion, bet there is more stink than you could have imagined


----------



## Works

Rus47 said:


> The ONLY reason to have a conversation with OM is to find out what his story is, to compare with hers. OM wasn’t the instigator here. No way OP should confront him about anything. His wife wanted OM and got him. She arranged the whole damned thing to happen before OP arrived. I would even bet she paid OMs airfare.
> 
> Remember, she researched her target well. I wonder what D!ks real name is, and what pseudonym amongst the girls club at work. Proly call him “Big D”.


Big Dodo!


----------



## re16

SRCSRC said:


> the first condition of reconciliation is for her to leave her job IMMEDIATELY


For reconciliation yes, but if he is going to potentially divorce, it would be better for her to keep her job.

I wouldn't suggest any of this until he has the full truth and she is putting in the effort showing remorse.

My advice is that this M is over.

Since he confronted already, I would suggest he tells her she has one chance to tell the full truth, she will be polygraphed when she gets home, and that he is leaving early to prepare papers.

Is OM still in Italy?


----------



## SnowToArmPits

> I asked her why she wouldn’t say anything about this meeting from Tuesday to Saturday and… she doesn’t know. A grown a** adult can’t answer a simple question. Unreal.


This is something an eight year old would say.
This is all she's giving her husband, her marriage is in crisis, and she goes with this. 
She's a brick wall. Full of nasty secrets, no answers for you. 
Sorry you have such a lousy partner.
I think you should set a time limit on this nonsense. Pick a date 2 months from now? 4 months from now? keep the date to yourself. If no improvement hand her divorce papers.


----------



## Gabriel

OP, do you mind clarifying a few things?

1) Did Richard meet your wife at your US home, while you were in Italy? Or in your Italy home, while you were in the US? Or in your US home, while you were at work in the US?
2) Which of the three of your are in Italy now? All of you, or just you?
3) She told you about this when you were in the car, on your way to the Italy house from the Italy airport, while she was there? Then you argued in earshot of your kid, in Italy, once you got to the house?


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> BTW, my money says this aint her first rodeo. I am betting she started riding the wild bulls about 7 years ago and just got more brazen from not being caught.


Unfortunately, you may be right. In the process of putting the pieces of the puzzle together I’ve kind of stumbled upon “shady situations” that, under serious scrutiny, I have no other way of explaining but her doing stuff outside the relationship.

Like I said in an earlier comment, when I went to the teacher’s wedding, the way I was ignored by everyone now feels to me like they KNEW my wife was cheating on me and no one wanted to exchange with me for fears that they may have to say something when looking at me in the eye.

There was another period of time, about 7 years ago, when she was just horny as a rabbit on Spanish Fly. We did it 2 times a day for like two months… odd change in sex habit. I also remember her being wet from just basic stimulation and her walking around with a fist-full of tampons even when not on her period.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> There was another period of time, about 7 years ago, when she was just horny as a rabbit on Spanish Fly. We did it 2 times a day for like two months… odd change in sex habit. I also remember her being wet from just basic stimulation and her walking around with a fist-full of tampons even when not on her period.


There is your proof that what I said is true! And she hasnt slowed down a bit since then. Has she slowed down for you? How has the bedroom been for you since Big D became an item?


----------



## Sfort

JBLH said:


> Every time I ask her things all I get from her is crying, defensiveness and blame shifting.


Big red flags


----------



## csj77

Just leave her. You do NOT control her. She’s your wife, not your child or your slave. You don’t get to tell her where, when and how she works. No spouse has that right. 
If you’re so convinced just divorce her if you don’t like what she’s doing.
If I were her and you did all the **** everyone here is egging you on with, and you found out i actually wasn’t cheating and then tried to have a normal marriage with me, i’d pack my ****, take your house in Italy and leave you immediately.


----------



## Captain Obvious

csj77 said:


> Just leave her. You do NOT control her. She’s your wife, not your child or your slave. You don’t get to tell her where, when and how she works. No spouse has that right.
> If you’re so convinced just divorce her if you don’t like what she’s doing.
> If I were her and you did all the *** everyone here is egging you on with, and you found out i actually wasn’t cheating and then tried to have a normal marriage with me, i’d pack my ***, take your house in Italy and leave you immediately.


do you have coworkers you cyberstalk come visit you halfway around the world at your vacation home when your spouse is still in the homeland? Yeah typical vacation, happens all the time, Give me a break.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

The title of th thread is a bit understated. He has far more than your wife's ear OP.


----------



## So far so good

JBLH said:


> She essentially agreed she royally messed up, that her actions are the same actions a cheater would take BUT keeps insisting she meant good and that the conversation was entirely about work (in July!) and nothing else.


This gives you the leverage you need. I suggest this:

Trust is essential in a marriage and you lost trust in her. To gain back trust, she will need to write a timeline of anything inappropriate she has done since she married you. That includes her feelings for Richard. *You will verify her timeline with a polygraph*. If she refuses or she doesn’t give you the full truth, you divorce her. If she comes clean, you will consider your next action (you reserve the right yo D her but don’t tell her).

This method is simple and straight to the point. Of course, you have to be ready to D her if she doesn’t cooperate. But do you really want to be in a marriage of lies?


----------



## frenchpaddy

So far so good said:


> This gives you the leverage you need. I suggest this:
> 
> Trust is essential in a marriage and you lost trust in her. To gain back trust, she will need to write a timeline of anything inappropriate she has done since she married you. That includes her feelings for Richard. *You will verify her timeline with a polygraph*. If she refuses or she doesn’t give you the full truth, you divorce her. If she comes clean, you will consider your next action (you reserve the right yo D her but don’t tell her).
> 
> This method is simple and straight to the point. Of course, you have to be ready to D her if she doesn’t cooperate. But do you really want to be in a marriage of lies?


for me if you have to go to that forget it the marriage is not worth working on , I would just call it off , 

OP is partly responsible as to not seen the red flags or been a bit too excepting , 
Maybe he had his head too much in work ,maybe he thought giving his wife a home in Italy but not going with her was good thing to do ,


----------



## Jimi007

Sorry....I don't believe any of this BS...
Answer the questions


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

csj77 said:


> Just leave her. You do NOT control her. She’s your wife, not your child or your slave. You don’t get to tell her where, when and how she works. No spouse has that right.
> If you’re so convinced just divorce her if you don’t like what she’s doing.
> If I were her and you did all the *** everyone here is egging you on with, and you found out i actually wasn’t cheating and then tried to have a normal marriage with me, i’d pack my ***, take your house in Italy and leave you immediately.


Did you read the thread?

People tend to invest everything they have in a marriage to make it meaningful and beneficial for the entire family unit. Husband (and wife) have every right to define 'marital boundaries' to secure a "marriage," therefore. This is absolutely different from trying to control your spouse in negative ways.

Infidelity is blatant violation of marital vows and a threat to the well being of a family unit by extension. It is logical and natural to try to PROTECT your investments (and your own).

If your spouse is doing something wrong then you have every right to protest and try to stop him (or her) from damaging your marriage and family unit by extension in acceptable ways. The threshold of when to give up will vary from person to person of-course.

I will focus on the Other Man (OM) part for now. I recall a British man shamelessly bragging about his conquests of "married women" in this forum not long ago. EVIL is the word that comes to mind. You can find this thread with little effort.

The OM might get away with his "nonsense" in some regions but not everywhere. I am NOT one of those men who will sit back and watch a man burn MY household without payback or consequences. I hope that I am never tested in this manner. I am not sleeping nevertheless.

I do not advise any man to do something stupid or unlawful on his own. It would be much better to fight your battles by consulting other people (if you want to).

The BS is getting good advise in this thread in fact.


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> She basically agreed to my demands, but I don’t know how committed she is to adhering to the demands. I really, for the love of God, hope she really puts up an emotional wall. The main problem is that she works in a school setting and there’s literally nothing I can do to prevent the marriage from going down the drain. I really don’t know how emotionally invested she is in this guy. Every time I ask her things all I get from her is crying, defensiveness and blame shifting. It’s emotionally draining. I’m writing this from a beach overseas… everyone is happy and having a blast and I’m so miserable I would take the next flight back to the US and leave were I given a chance (tried but it’d cost me $3000).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She essentially agreed she royally messed up, that her actions are the same actions a cheater would take BUT keeps insisting she meant good and that the conversation was entirely about work (in July!) and nothing else. I basically asked her to stop punking me, TO RESPECT ME, that I am the father to her child and the one that put a roof over her head but all I get is crying and crickets. I asked her why she wouldn’t say anything about this meeting from Tuesday to Saturday and… she doesn’t know. A grown a** adult can’t answer a simple question. Unreal.
> 
> Should I confront the co-worker? I have his phone #.


All you’ll get is lies and denial. IMO all you did by showing your hand was driving it deeper underground.
Trying to block the OM won’t get you a thing from whay I’ve seen. They’ll probably just be more careful now.
Mouth shut eyes and ears open didn’t last long. 
The OM and your wife will cover for each other.


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> Want to hear the f**** up part? My 12 year old heard us arguing and demanded we tell him WTH was going on. She did and he immediately said “dad is right.”


He’s not stupid. I’d bet he knows more than you think.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Marc878 said:


> He’s not stupid. I’d bet he knows more than you think.


 kids often don't say they know many of their friends parents are divorced and think it is best not to grass


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.”


Your wife is one of the "everybodies".


JBLH said:


> my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance.





JBLH said:


> my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I* saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home*.


You saw the real her.



JBLH said:


> my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man.


She was prequalifying him to be your replacement. BTW, how is the house in Italy titled and is she maybe thinking she and Mr Big D can pry it loose from you during divorce and make it their permanent residence. Away from any pesky US laws and attorneys.


----------



## Marc878

So far so good said:


> This gives you the leverage you need. I suggest this:
> 
> Trust is essential in a marriage and you lost trust in her. To gain back trust, she will need to write a timeline of anything inappropriate she has done since she married you. That includes her feelings for Richard. *You will verify her timeline with a polygraph*. If she refuses or she doesn’t give you the full truth, you divorce her. If she comes clean, you will consider your next action (you reserve the right yo D her but don’t tell her).
> 
> This method is simple and straight to the point. Of course, you have to be ready to D her if she doesn’t cooperate. But do you really want to be in a marriage of lies?


What leverage? I don’t see where he accomplished a thing.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Jimi007 said:


> Sorry....I don't believe any of this BS...
> Answer the questions


I’m starting to wonder as well.
Some of these details feel like TT.


----------



## pastasauce79

Jimi007 said:


> Sorry....I don't believe any of this BS...
> Answer the questions


Things are off with this one...


----------



## DudeInProgress

csj77 said:


> Just leave her. You do NOT control her. She’s your wife, not your child or your slave. You don’t get to tell her where, when and how she works. No spouse has that right.
> If you’re so convinced just divorce her if you don’t like what she’s doing.
> If I were her and you did all the *** everyone here is egging you on with, and you found out i actually wasn’t cheating and then tried to have a normal marriage with me, i’d pack my ***, take your house in Italy and leave you immediately.


Really… 
So having boundaries within a marriage is problematic for you?
You wouldn’t put up with your spouse having boundaries and expectations in order to protect your marriage?
And you wouldn’t put up with your spouse following up and appropriately investigating your extremely suspicious behavior?
OK, good luck with that.


----------



## georgel316000

Not sure if this was suggested so I'll say it.....you need to expose this now to friends and family to get her out of this fog and tell her she need to change schools or a whole new career.


----------



## Marc878

The only one in the fog right now is the OP. It’s obvious the marriage means more to him than his wife. Which puts him at a distinct disadvantage. Not to mention workplace affairs are the worst. They are around each other at least 8 hours a day. 
OP can’t make her do a thing.


----------



## So far so good

Marc878 said:


> What leverage? I don’t see where he accomplished a thing.


She admitted she messed up. It’s like a foot in the door. Now the OP continues with that. She could Admit that “she’s attracted to him but did nothing”. Then admit that “they kissed once but she didn’t like it” etc…

There’s no “I love you” text, no sexting, no emails, no “my friend saw you holding hands”, just a bunch of red flags. But the OP could get his wife to talk. If she thinks it’s in her best interest to talk, she’ll talk


----------



## masterofmasters

i think you should divorce without spending money to catch her. trust is fragile. you clearly don't have any for her now. and she doesn't appear to be willing to let you build any back up.

has she asked you what she can do to build your trust back?


----------



## Marc878

So far so good said:


> She admitted she messed up. It’s like a foot in the door. Now the OP continues with that. She could Admit that “she’s attracted to him but did nothing”. Then admit that “they kissed once but she didn’t like it” etc…
> 
> There’s no “I love you” text, no sexting, no emails, no “my friend saw you holding hands”, just a bunch of red flags. But the OP could get his wife to talk. If she thinks it’s in her best interest to talk, she’ll talk


Nope. She admitted to nothing other than it looked bad. Which would get explained away. OP has nothing.


----------



## Marc878

masterofmasters said:


> i think you should divorce without spending money to catch her. trust is fragile. you clearly don't have any for her now. and she doesn't appear to be willing to let you build any back up.
> 
> has she asked you what she can do to build your trust back?


OP is not going to make that decision.


----------



## Evinrude58

When a woman starts this stuff, it never gets better. She looked up this guy on the internet. She chased him. * Men DO NOT cross an ocean to have a friendly chat and a cup of coffee with a woman. ever.*
There’s no need for anything further. No conversation or talk or “boundary” discussions will make a woman love her husband, and love is what prevents infidelity. Threats and such won’t make a person love you OP. Nobody wants to divorce and start over. It’s very difficult, painful, and scary to divorce snd be alone again. But that’s what you should do.
Wishing the obvious wasn’t true, hoping things can go back to the way they were, does no good. You’re still stuck with an unloving, cheating wife. 
Do what you knew was the right thing to do all along. Divorce is a slow process. Do is a slow death by staying with a cheater.


----------



## csj77

DudeInProgress said:


> Really…
> So having boundaries within a marriage is problematic for you?
> You wouldn’t put up with your spouse having boundaries and expectations in order to protect your marriage?
> And you wouldn’t put up with your spouse following up and appropriately investigating your extremely suspicious behavior?
> OK, good luck with that.


I didn’t say boundaries were an issue. The OP said above he lost “CONTROL “ of his wife. You don’t control your spouse. If you have to “control”, that’s not your partner. That’s your child/ subordinate/ inferior.

if she’s cheating he should leave her. If she is cheating and admits it, THIS is going to be their dynamic. Him recording her. Following her. Watching her. Her reporting her every second to him. Him poring over phone records and gps data. What kind of life is that for either one?

No.


----------



## Beach123

No man travels that far unless he knows he is getting laid.

and how did he know where to find your wife - oh ya - she invited him.

he was likely there the whole time she was yet she told you she only saw him once.

what does your son say happened on the trip? Was your son with her the whole time they were there or did she disappear many times that were unaccounted for?

either way, she’s definitely very serious about this OM.


----------



## Diana7

csj77 said:


> I didn’t say boundaries were an issue. The OP said above he lost “CONTROL “ of his wife. You don’t control your spouse. If you have to “control”, that’s not your partner. That’s your child/ subordinate/ inferior.
> 
> if she’s cheating he should leave her. If she is cheating and admits it, THIS is going to be their dynamic. Him recording her. Following her. Watching her. Her reporting her every second to him. Him poring over phone records and gps data. What kind of life is that for either one?
> 
> No.


Maybe it just wasnt the right word to use but we can understand what he meant.


----------



## smi11ie

Get some real evidence before you pull the plug on your marraige.


----------



## In Absentia

You had an American flag showing when you posted originally saying you were in Italy...


----------



## BoSlander

DudeInProgress said:


> Really…
> So having boundaries within a marriage is problematic for you?
> You wouldn’t put up with your spouse having boundaries and expectations in order to protect your marriage?
> And you wouldn’t put up with your spouse following up and appropriately investigating your extremely suspicious behavior?
> OK, good luck with that.


Allow me to piggy-back off of your comment and address some people’s insistence on finding fault in me from preventing a marriage from falling apart. The “control” word was taken out of context in an attempt to make me look like I am some misogynistic a**hole: That, I am not. By “control” I meant that which I ASK of my wife usually takes hours or days for her to tend do. The OM’s requests get taken care of IMMEDIATELY. I may have used the wrong word but, please note I’m probably being cheated on. Cut me some slack.

Apart from this comment, there was another poster that insinuated that I had posted something else because I mentioned the “$80” and a foreign country. The only connection, I suspect and know, is that Chase sends an automatic text to the primary beneficiary’s phone every time someone withdraws more than $99.99. That is probably why the cheaters are only withdrawing $80 at a time and people see that amount being quoted all the time.


----------



## BoSlander

In Absentia said:


> You had an American flag showing when you posted originally saying you were in Italy...


Have you ever heard of NordVPN?

I’m not going to another country and surf public networks without a VPN. If you don’t, you’re asking for it.


----------



## In Absentia

JBLH said:


> Have you ever heard of NordVPN?
> 
> I’m not going to another country and surf public networks without a VPN. If you don’t, you’re asking for it.


Seems a bit extreme to me. Do you work for the FBI or something like that? You have a house in Italy. You don't have your own Internet connection?


----------



## BoSlander

In Absentia said:


> Seems a bit extreme to me. Do you work for the FBI or something like that? You have a house in Italy. You don't have your own Internet connection?


Not the FBI or the CIA. I own a boatload of cryptos (not BTC or ETH). The less surface exposure, the better.


----------



## In Absentia

JBLH said:


> Not the FBI or the CIA. I own a boatload of cryptos (not BTC or ETH). The less surface exposure, the better.


Okey dokey... I still find it extreme. A well encrypted connection is good enough, IMO. But it's your choice and I understand.


----------



## BoSlander

Folks, have some good news… life works in some freaking ways sometimes!!! I’ve been taking nightly walks for the past 3 days (to clear my head and grab a drink at a hotel nearby). Last night I got to talk to a HOT Peruvian lady… to make a long story short, she was very receptive and immediately noticed I was under some severe stress. We hit it off. Like off off off! We talked for about 2 hours and… I think I like what I saw and heard. She now lives in Chicago but she is willing to move to Boston if the opportunity presents itself.

I guess someone’s trash CAN be another man’s treasure after all.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> The OM’s requests get taken care of IMMEDIATELY.


Another bad sign. But you know that already.

What is the timeline for your return to the states? End of summer? I believe you said your wife and son return then too. Has OM already returned or is he still hanging around in Spain after getting his "boat engine" repaired? Do you know how close he lives to you (in his $3MM house)?


----------



## BoSlander

In Absentia said:


> Okey dokey... I still find it extreme. A well encrypted connection is good enough, IMO. But it's your choice and I understand.


Has nothing to do with encryption. When you surf the web in another country, your data plan provider subcontracts the plan through and to a local provider. It’s not your own provider that is channeling your data, it’s a foreign entity. You should, at all times, minimize the attack surface. ESPECIALLY when accessing the internet through public foreign WIFI network.

Check out Richard Heart. Hackers are now attacking phones via the SIM card and whatever you have backed up in the cloud.


----------



## snowbum

So now you’re starting an affair if your own and that’s great news? Your poor kid has psycho parents.


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> Another bad sign. But you know that already.
> 
> What is the timeline for your return to the states? End of summer? I believe you said your wife and son return then too. Has OM already returned or is he still hanging around in Spain after getting his "boat engine" repaired? Do you know how close he lives to you (in his $3MM house)?


I’ll be returning to the States, from Italy not Spain, next Tuesday.


----------



## BoSlander

snowbum said:


> So now you’re starting an affair if your own and that’s great news? Your poor kid has psycho parents.


Hey, if she’s going to have a d*ck on the side, I’ll have a puss on a just-in-case basis.

I guess killing myself on the Peloton paid off after all.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> Folks, have some good news… life works in some freaking ways sometimes!!! I’ve been taking nightly walks for the past 3 days (to clear my head and grab a drink at a hotel nearby). Last night I got to talk to a HOT Peruvian lady… to make a long story short, she was very receptive and immediately noticed I was under some severe stress. We hit it off. Like off off off! We talked for about 2 hours and… I think I like what I saw and heard. She now lives in Chicago but she is willing to move to Boston if the opportunity presents itself.
> 
> I guess someone’s trash CAN be another man’s treasure after all.


So you haven't even figured out what you're going to do about the woman you are married to now and you're already chasing another "hot" woman from Peru? It's your life, but you are just adding more misery than you can imagine. Your present wife will be living the dream in Italy with her OM on YOUR dime. Her attorney will clean your clock.

You are old enough to know to live life in the right order, finish one job before beginning another.

BTW, you have likely just trashed most of the goodwill you have been getting on TAM (including me) with this single post.

Good Luck with your Peruvian hottie. I have known more than one US male who ended up very sorry they took up with a woman they met in a bar ( or online ) overseas. I am out.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

JBLH said:


> Hey, if she’s going to have a d*ck on the side, I’ll have a puss on a just-in-case basis.
> 
> I guess killing myself on the Peloton paid off after all.


I was pulling for you OP.
Now?

You deserve each other.
Good luck.


----------



## Works

Rus47 said:


> So you haven't even figured out what you're going to do about the woman you are married to now and you're already chasing another "hot" woman from Peru? It's your life, but you are just adding more misery than you can imagine. Your present wife will be living the dream in Italy with her OM on YOUR dime. Her attorney will clean your clock.
> 
> You are old enough to know to live life in the right order, finish one job before beginning another.
> 
> BTW, you have likely just trashed most of the goodwill you have been getting on TAM (including me) with this single post.
> 
> Good Luck with your Peruvian hottie. I have known more than one US male who ended up very sorry they took up with a woman they met in a bar ( or online ) overseas. I am out.


I am out, too. 

✌


----------



## In Absentia

JBLH said:


> Has nothing to do with encryption. When you surf the web in another country, your data plan provider subcontracts the plan through and to a local provider. It’s not your own provider that is channeling your data, it’s a foreign entity. You should, at all times, minimize the attack surface. ESPECIALLY when accessing the internet through public foreign WIFI network.
> 
> Check out Richard Heart. Hackers are now attacking phones via the SIM card and whatever you have backed up in the cloud.


I'm talking about an Internet connection via a router and fixed line, not phones or wi-fi. But you do what you have to do.


----------



## drencrom

JBLH said:


> Should I confront the co-worker? I have his phone #.


Hold off on that for now. You need to first find out how committed your wife is to respecting you and meeting your demands of no one on one meetings with this guy.

If she resists, then sure, call him.

But honestly if she tells you something like, "I can have a professional lunch or coffee with him if I want to", then she doesn't respect your marriage or you, then it's time to seek out an attorney. Because at that point it's just a matter of time that she bones him, if she hasn't already.


----------



## drencrom

JBLH said:


> Want to hear the f**** up part? My 12 year old heard us arguing and demanded we tell him WTH was going on. She did and he immediately said “dad is right.”


Way to go son!! At least you know he has your back and if it came down to divorce, he may decided he wants to live with you.


----------



## Diana7

JBLH said:


> Folks, have some good news… life works in some freaking ways sometimes!!! I’ve been taking nightly walks for the past 3 days (to clear my head and grab a drink at a hotel nearby). Last night I got to talk to a HOT Peruvian lady… to make a long story short, she was very receptive and immediately noticed I was under some severe stress. We hit it off. Like off off off! We talked for about 2 hours and… I think I like what I saw and heard. She now lives in Chicago but she is willing to move to Boston if the opportunity presents itself.
> 
> I guess someone’s trash CAN be another man’s treasure after all.


And that's good news? You are going to cheat? You know nothing about the ;lady in the bar, but she wants to move to Boston???? She is ok with chatting up another women's husband therefore has no integrity. You and your wife are just as bad as each other.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

JBLH said:


> Folks, have some good news… life works in some freaking ways sometimes!!! I’ve been taking nightly walks for the past 3 days (to clear my head and grab a drink at a hotel nearby). Last night I got to talk to a HOT Peruvian lady… to make a long story short, she was very receptive and immediately noticed I was under some severe stress. We hit it off. Like off off off! We talked for about 2 hours and… I think I like what I saw and heard. She now lives in Chicago but she is willing to move to Boston if the opportunity presents itself.
> 
> I guess someone’s trash CAN be another man’s treasure after all.


WTF are you doing? The body isn't even cold and you are hitting on another woman. Even making plans for her to move? Your marriage is so ****ed. Cheating isn't right, even if your wife is a POS cheater herself.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

JBLH said:


> Hey, if she’s going to have a d*ck on the side, I’ll have a puss on a just-in-case basis.
> 
> I guess killing myself on the Peloton paid off after all.


So in other words you are just as big a POS as she is? Is that what you are going for?


----------



## Gabriel

So many questions unanswered. I'm done asking.


----------



## Diana7

Gabriel said:


> So many questions unanswered. I'm done asking.


He has been asked the same questions about 4 times but refuses to answer.


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> He has been asked the same questions about 4 times but refuses to answer.


He was quick to reply to my answers...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

JBLH said:


> Have you ever heard of NordVPN?
> 
> I’m not going to another country and surf public networks without a VPN. If you don’t, you’re asking for it.


Don't you have home internet?
Or can't afford it?


----------



## ElOtro

smi11ie said:


> Get some real evidence before you pull the plug on your marraige.


Either
"Get some real marriage, you don´t have one".


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> Hey, if she’s going to have a d*ck on the side, I’ll have a puss on a just-in-case basis.
> 
> I guess killing myself on the Peloton paid off after all.


High school mentality. Can’t make a decision so…..


----------



## Evinrude58

Already hunting the Peruvian honeys and hasn’t even dealt with the wifey. Quite a tangled web you weave lol


----------



## ElOtro

JBLH said:


> I guess someone’s trash CAN be another man’s treasure after all.


True sometimes, but....



JBLH said:


> Folks, have some good news… life works in some freaking ways sometimes!!! I’ve been taking nightly walks for the past 3 days (to clear my head and grab a drink at a hotel nearby). Last night I got to talk to a HOT Peruvian lady… to make a long story short, she was very receptive and immediately noticed I was under some severe stress. We hit it off. Like off off off! We talked for about 2 hours and… I think I like what I saw and heard. She now lives in Chicago but she is willing to move to Boston if the opportunity presents itself.


With this you are putting yourself willingly in the same kind of trash your wife is in.

Sad


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> Good Luck with your Peruvian hottie. I have known more than one US male who ended up very sorry they took up with a woman they met in a bar ( or online ) overseas. I am out.


Yeah well, I met my current Gringa wife at a communion in Secaucus, NJ. And yet, here we are, about to lose half my sh** to someone I literally dedicated my entire married life trying to make happy.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Marc878 said:


> High school mentality. Can’t make a decision so…..


Well, he is still in HS.


----------



## BoSlander

Evinrude58 said:


> Already hunting the Peruvian honeys and hasn’t even dealt with the wifey. Quite a tangled web you weave lol


The wifey’s going to be dealt with next Wednesday.

I’ve already contacted a lawyer and I’ll be serving papers soon. F*** this sh**!


----------



## csj77

Diana7 said:


> Maybe it just wasnt the right word to use but we can understand what he meant.


But you’re fine with the rest of that behaviour?.
He said “control”. The actions you and everyone else are encouraging equate to “control”.


----------



## BoSlander

In Absentia said:


> He was quick to reply to my answers...


Some people are asking questions I’ve already answered. Not my problem some have ADD.


----------



## Casual Observer

JBLH said:


> The wifey’s going to be dealt with next Wednesday.
> 
> I’ve already contacted a lawyer and I’ll be serving papers soon. F*** this sh**!


Have you had individual counseling or met with a psychologist in the past? It’s tough believing that what you’re expressing now is a first time for you.


----------



## BoSlander

csj77 said:


> But you’re fine with the rest of that behaviour?.
> He said “control”. The actions you and everyone else are encouraging equate to “control”.


Oh.

My.

God.


----------



## So far so good

Rus47 said:


> BTW, you have likely just trashed most of the goodwill you have been getting on TAM (including me) with this single post.


Indeed


----------



## BoSlander

Casual Observer said:


> Have you had individual counseling or met with a psychologist in the past? It’s tough believing that what you’re expressing now is a first time for you.


Me??? Like the cheat-ee??? I would venture to say that the one that needs the counseling is the cheat-er right?

Are you even aware of what you’re insinuating?


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> BTW, you have likely just trashed most of the goodwill you have been getting on TAM (including me) with this single post.


My apologies Bud but… I don’t have the time or patience at this point to go through my initial monitoring plan or hiring a PI. I mean… the way I see it now, just having to go through the process is humiliating to me.

If my 20+ years with her are meant to culminate in this emotional clusterf*ck, then so be it.


----------



## BoSlander

csj77 said:


> Right back at you, Babe. You have zero moral high ground.
> You’re full of it, and if you are in fact being cheated on, you absolutely deserve it.


Anyone know how I can ignore this person?

Zero advise. All criticism.


----------



## Gabriel

The reason for asking clarifying questions is because your writing wasn't clear. I'll try one more time - this time by guessing. Can I get a yes or no? Hopefully that isn't too much to ask.

Your wife/son were in Italy for the summer, per usual. You were on your way to meet them, because you spend 2-3 weeks with them at the end of the summer, and you fly back together. You landed in Italy, and were driving to your house there, and on your way, your wife tells you Richard miraculously met her at your Italian home (while you were in the states still). They had coffee. You arrived in a huff, argued with her and your son heard you, asked WTF was going on. You told him, and he took your side.

Because of this, your 2-3 weeks in Italy are tainted, you are miserable, and want to go home and file divorce papers.

Yes. Or. No.


----------



## Diana7

JBLH said:


> Some people are asking questions I’ve already answered. Not my problem some have ADD.


Not the ones several here have asked.


----------



## csj77

Don’t even get me started on the poor judgement you showed involving your 12 year old child in this.


----------



## Diana7

Married man chats up random South American woman in bar in Italy. After 2 hours she says she will move to where he lives. Now what could possibly go wrong. 🤨🙄🤔😁😳😆


----------



## BoSlander

Gabriel said:


> The reason for asking clarifying questions is because your writing wasn't clear. I'll try one more time - this time by guessing. Can I get a yes or no? Hopefully that isn't too much to ask.
> 
> Your wife/son were in Italy for the summer, per usual. You were on your way to meet them, because you spend 2-3 weeks with them at the end of the summer, and you fly back together. You landed in Italy, and were driving to your house there, and on your way, your wife tells you Richard miraculously met her at your Italian home (while you were in the states still). They had coffee. You arrived in a huff, argued with her and your son heard you, asked WTF was going on. You told him, and he took your side.
> 
> Because of this, your 2-3 weeks in Italy are tainted, you are miserable, and want to go home and file divorce papers.
> 
> Yes. Or. No.


Gabriel, I’m going to connect as many dots as I can for you but… you’re still going to have to do some reading Bud. Can’t sit here and provide you with cheat sheets when your ADD kicks in.

99% of the people here clearly understood what I said. It isn’t my writing.

Yes.


----------



## BoSlander

Diana7 said:


> Married man chats up random South American woman in bar. After 2 hours she says she will move to where he lives. Now what could possibly go wrong. 🤨🙄🤔😁😳😆


Oh, I don’t know, we buy a house in Italy, buy a nice house in the US, take annual vacations, live a nice life and then she decides to jump on someone else’s d*ck?

Oh wait, that’s my future ex wife.


----------



## Diana7

JBLH said:


> Oh, I don’t know, we buy a house in Italy, buy a nice house in the US, take annual vacations, live a nice life and then she decides to jump on someone else’s d*ck?
> 
> Oh wait, that’s my future ex wife.


If indeed she has, its no different from what you are planning.


----------



## Works

JBLH said:


> Gabriel, I’m going to connect as many dots as I can for you but… you’re still going to have to do some reading Bud. Can’t sit here and provide you with cheat sheets when your ADD kicks in.
> 
> 99% of the people here clearly understood what I said. It isn’t my writing.
> 
> Yes.


You're extremely rude to someone who came along to try and help clarify what's going on to the others who are just as confused as I was. 

There was no need for it.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

JBLH said:


> Folks, have some good news… life works in some freaking ways sometimes!!! I’ve been taking nightly walks for the past 3 days (to clear my head and grab a drink at a hotel nearby). Last night I got to talk to a HOT Peruvian lady… to make a long story short, she was very receptive and immediately noticed I was under some severe stress. We hit it off. Like off off off! We talked for about 2 hours and… I think I like what I saw and heard. She now lives in Chicago but she is willing to move to Boston if the opportunity presents itself.
> 
> I guess someone’s trash CAN be another man’s treasure after all.


Listen, man.

Your emotions are all over the place.

Yes, it can be therapeutic to talk to someone who is very attentive and patient to blow off steam. This will lighten your mood.

But you need to think clearly as well.

Do not escalate things with this woman *until* your marital situation is sorted out.

Make up your mind about what to do with your wife First and Foremost. If you want to file for divorce then do this. No need to waste further time trying to catch her in the act. You already know what is going on.

Contact this woman [after] you have filed for divorce, and legally separated. Do this the right way.

I hope you did not miss my earlier post. The list of WHYs in it are important reminders and learning points.


----------



## QuietRiot

You went from refusing to believe that your wife is a disrespectful cheater and needing evidence upon evidence to filing papers because you met some Peruvian piece of ass…. Did you sleep with her? Did you kiss her?

While I understand there is a lot of things people do when in pain and many of them are terrible choices, I have to wonder if you are not very fearful of simply being alone? It would explain why you would tolerate a POS wife despite years of disrespect, and why you would suddenly be ok with actually implementing consequences when you feel there is someone to monkey branch to.

Why do betrayed people need IC? Because it’s traumatizing to realize you’re married to someone who stabs you in the back. To heal and look at the situation from a objective viewpoint, to learn our own mistakes and problems in the marriage and process the infidelity. IC is invaluable when you find a decent one. Much more valuable that finding a replacement before the ink on the divorce papers has even been written.


----------



## TAMAT

JBLH,

Please don't get involved with someone else, when you are suffering from being cheated on you will likely make a bad choice, possibly worse than your current wife.

Yea Teachers can be a strong clique, they frequently belong to a union, they cover for each other and are very touchy about criticism from parents/ administration, despite being very critical themselves. 

I get what you wrote about being ignored by everyone at the wedding, it's a strange feeling when you go to a workplace and everyone knows your WW is cheating except you. I went back to the place I used to work at with my W, she still worked there, and it was like I had been turned into a laughing stock.


----------



## SRCSRC

You had indicated previously that your wife has reluctantly agreed to a series demands, including a polygraph. But it looks like things have deteriorated to the point that you just want to file for divorce and end the marriage. I, certainly, have no desire to talk you out of not filing. Evidently, you have learned enough about what your wife has been up to dating back seven years to where you are done. I am not ready to burn you at the stake for talking to a hot Peruvian woman for several hours provided you didn’t get physical with her AND you do not pursue anything with her until your marriage is over. 

But what I would do is simply sit your wife down and calmly explain to her that infidelity is a deal breaker, that you believe she has been unfaithful and that you will be filing for divorce. Further explain to her that you wish to maintain a civil relationship with her in order to successfully coparent your son. You certainly sound like you are done with her but if things change, the divorce can always be stopped. 

As far a the hot Peruvian woman is concerned, forget it. You are in no position to start up with anyone, especially someone you met under the haze of alcohol, rage, depression, anger, and pain. That’s my two cents.


----------



## re16

Well right now you are still married and two wrongs don't make a right. It sounded like your state has at-fault divorce with infidelity as grounds, so you be better be careful or she'll paint you as the cheater, and with your flimsy evidence on her, she'll could win that.

Take one step at a time, and make sure you are stepping on the high road each time.


----------



## cocolo2019

JBLH said:


> Hey, if she’s going to have a d*ck on the side, I’ll have a puss on a just-in-case basis.
> 
> I guess killing myself on the Peloton paid off after all.


OP my recommendation is that you should wait. It is good to have open options in case of a divorce, but is better to have everything setup before jumping to the Dating Train.


----------



## cocolo2019

He me mentioned before that his wife has met OM in her car or his car (I don't remember exactly). 

A married woman meeting with another man other than her husband is a huge red flag. That's a ground for the request of a polygraph. 

OP demand her to take a polygraph and if she resists, handle her the divorce papers.

We got your back OP.


----------



## DudeInProgress

JBLH said:


> Me??? Like the cheat-ee??? I would venture to say that the one that needs the counseling is the cheat-er right?
> 
> Are you even aware of what you’re insinuating?


You don’t understand.
Yes, you need to work on yourself to figure out why you have been so passive in your marriage and set so few boundaries when you saw signs of years ago and did nothing. 
you have not been leading your marriage and you were certainly not in control of your situation. 
You need to figure that out or the cycle will simply repeat itself with the next woman.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

@JBLH 

Another reminder.

Get in touch with a competent lawyer to determine your options in case of divorce in view of your current situation. Tell him whatever you know about your wife's infidelity.

If you feel the need to catch your wife in the act then hire a PI to do this for you. Stop trying to be one yourself. Skip this part otherwise.

Think about your son for now. He might be taking your side (good for you). Do not do anything which makes you loose the high moral ground and your son's respect by extension.

Move forward one step at a time.

Get in touch with another woman [after] you have things in order, filed for divorce, and legally separated.

You are getting very good advice and pointers in this thread. For your benefit.


----------



## DudeInProgress

JBLH said:


> Anyone know how I can ignore this person?
> 
> Zero advise. All criticism.


You’ve received a lot of advice here in general, and you won’t like all the of the opinions that you receive.
I think the majority of the guidance you have received has been very good.
If you are so thin skinned that you can’t handle some criticism (which can often be extremely useful) mixed in, you’ve got much bigger issues.
From what I recall, I disagree with that poster’s perspective, but if you can’t receive and onboard criticism (whether you decide it’s valid or not in the end), that just reinforces my earlier comment that you need to be working on yourself as well in this process.


----------



## Gabriel

JBLH said:


> Gabriel, I’m going to connect as many dots as I can for you but… you’re still going to have to do some reading Bud. Can’t sit here and provide you with cheat sheets when your ADD kicks in.
> 
> 99% of the people here clearly understood what I said. It isn’t my writing.
> 
> Yes.


Probably more like 50%, but okay.

Seems you've already made your decision anyway. Not really sure what other advice you need.

I will take my 11 years of experience advising people on this forum elsewhere.

Good luck


----------



## BoSlander

Folks, a decision has been made.

I want to thank all of you for the input (bad and good). It’s been a very stressful handful of days and, after a lot of thinking and soul searching I’ve realized my soon-to-be-ex is unwilling to communicate with me in regards to what happened a few days ago.

Unfortunately for me, she hits all the boxes in the cheater’s catalog and I just simply have neither the emotional energy to find out if she’s had 1, 2, 3, 4 or 0 d*cks in her (none of which are mine) nor put myself through having to monitor her every more or hire a PI to do it.

I salute the brave who have the cojones to put themselves through such a horrid ordeal.

The overall experience I’ve had through TAM has been very positive (especially finding out I wasn’t the only cuckhold in the Universe) and I’m definitely going to recommend it to anyone going through marital problems.

Just as Tom Hanks did in Castaway, I’ve decided to continue my romantic life with the person God put in front of me a few days ago.

Cheers


----------



## Diana7

JBLH said:


> Gabriel, I’m going to connect as many dots as I can for you but… you’re still going to have to do some reading Bud. Can’t sit here and provide you with cheat sheets when your ADD kicks in.
> 
> 99% of the people here clearly understood what I said. It isn’t my writing.
> 
> Yes.


The reason why we didnt understand the whole story is that you refused to answer the same questions 4 or 5 times. The problem is with you. 
Also stop with the rudeness, totally uncalled for.


----------



## Diana7

JBLH said:


> Folks, a decision has been made.
> 
> I want to thank all of you for the input (bad and good). It’s been a very stressful handful of days and, after a lot of thinking and soul searching I’ve realized my soon-to-be-ex is unwilling to communicate with me in regards to what happened a few days ago. Unfortunately for me, she’s hits all the boxes in the cheater’s catalog and I just simply have no emotional energy to find out if she’s had 1, 2, 3, 4 or 0 d*cks in her (none of which are mine).
> 
> I salute the brave who have the cojones to put themselves through such a horrid ordeal.
> 
> Just as Tom Hanks did in Castaway, I’ve decided to continue my romantic life with the person God put in front of me a few days ago.
> 
> Cheers


Believe me it wasn't God who put her in front of you.


----------



## snowbum

God did t send a woman to the bar for you to hook up with. That was alcohol. Good luck with ma Peru once you divorce and lose $. Not as sexy then


----------



## snowbum

Life’s not a movie and you’re not Tom Hanks


----------



## uwe.blab

You have a date with the Peruvian woman tonight, friend?


----------



## In Absentia

I wouldn’t do anything you might regret after…


----------



## Works

In Absentia said:


> I wouldn’t do anything you might regret after…


I think he stopped caring long ago about logic and reason, plus the advice given here.


----------



## BoSlander

snowbum said:


> God did t send a woman to the bar for you to hook up with. That was alcohol. Good luck with ma Peru once you divorce and lose $. Not as sexy then


My she-male, crossfit-addicted, penis envy-ex wife is definitely getting 1/2.

The Peruvian WOMAN I’ve been talking to also makes her own money (she’s a social worker in Chicago) and actually paid for the drinks at the hotel (about $60).

First time in my life a woman pays for my drinks. My soon-to-be ex drove me to drink.

By the by, the girl I’m talking to has a specialty in broken homes and the effect they have on children and, as soon as I told her my story, she basically said my wife was most definitely cheating on me. Probably multiple times too.


----------



## snowbum

You’ve known her a day . If you’re jumping ship this fast you wanted out and there’s more to this story. Social workers don’t make good money. She’s maybe pulling in $60000, hardly a high rolling lifestyle. This whole story seems sketch.


----------



## bygone

Your wife is a school psychologist where cheating is common and she has her own private space, she doesn't need to go to hotels to have her own affair.

It cannot be explained by coincidence that an "unrelated man" is vacationing or doing business near your property.

Your wife is ready to end the marriage, she knows you will initiate a divorce if you see that she is with the man and will not work for the marriage.

Two adults and smart people don't make things like this without planning.

You'll give her the right to say, "My husband ended 20 years of marriage."

I think the divorce lawyer is ready.


----------



## Diana7

JBLH said:


> My she-male, crossfit-addicted, penis envy-ex wife is definitely getting 1/2.
> 
> The Peruvian WOMAN I’ve been talking to also makes her own money (she’s a social worker in Chicago) and actually paid for the drinks at the hotel (about $60).
> 
> First time in my life a woman pays for my drinks. My soon-to-be ex drove me to drink.
> 
> By the by, the girl I’m talking to has a specialty in broken homes and the effect they have on children and, as soon as I told her my story, she basically said my wife was most definitely cheating on me. Probably multiple times too.


In the UK we have a saying, 'out of the frying pan into the fire'. That's what you are doing. Jumping from one disaster to another.


----------



## Works

Diana7 said:


> In the UK we have a saying, 'out of the frying pan into the fire'. That's what you are doing. Jumping from one disaster to another.


Do you think we'll all be invited to the wedding?? Hopefully it's in Italy, I am dying to try that coffee.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

snowbum said:


> You’ve known her a day . If you’re jumping ship this fast you wanted out and there’s more to this story. Social workers don’t make good money. She’s maybe pulling in $60000, hardly a high rolling lifestyle. This whole story seems sketch.


The social worker told as a high earner, is very very unlikely. As you say, social workers are on the low end of salaries.


----------



## Rus47

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The social worker told as a high earner, is very very unlikely. As you say, social workers are on the low end of salaries.


There are women hanging around most any bar or similar venue just watching for the right “mark”. Some guy with a sad look on his face that has been off of market for decades. Little conversation and “mirroring”, little patience will pay the woman huge dividends. 

Sometimes they have a man watching and monitoring the proceedings. Sometimes the establishment’s owner.

Sadly, a lot of predator sharks are female


----------



## QuietRiot

I have never seen a situation play out like this one. Denial to “IM IN LURVE!” In ONE DAY! 

So the Peruvian Mother Theresa meets you in a bar, hears the whole story and then professes her love and willingness to relocate to be with you in 2 hours time, you had barely found out you’ve been cheated on and were sulking in your beer and bam… there she is. Sounds like you found yourself another future cheater. You’re right, nothing can go wrong here. Enjoy your divorce, your “opposite” new woman, and the counseling bills for your poor kid.


----------



## Diana7

Fillo


Works said:


> Do you think we'll all be invited to the wedding?? Hopefully it's in Italy, I am dying to try that coffee.


 Followed pretty soon by the divorce.


----------



## Lotsofheart73

Trident said:


> That's because it happens every day. Even if I understand your deeper meaning which I cannot elaborate on because it's against the forum TOS, it really doesn't matter because there's definitely someone reading this who is being cheated on right now even if it's not the Op, who will find such threads to be a lifesaver, even if the original intent of this thread was not to seek advise.


To be clear, I was not trying to minimize or downplay this op’s situation. It just seemed to me I read a post in here just a month or two back where the husband was complaining about his wife working in a cheaters Heaven of a school district and the same details about the behavior at a wedding.

But yes, I agree. Lots of helpful advice on here.


----------



## csj77

Yea you sound like a real prize. Now your wife is a she-male.
I was right about you. You’re a misogynist who wants to control his partner.
She’d be well rid of you.


----------



## pastasauce79

Felices los cuatro!

Maluma, baby! Lol!


----------



## Jimi007

This whole thread is BS....I don't believe any of it. Sounds more like the Jacob poster


----------



## Newbies

So he just happened to be in Italy from the US before you arrived…. Ummm no… it was planned and they probably had a few weeks together. I hope you washed the bedsheets before you went to sleep that night.


----------



## Wolfman1968

JBLH said:


> Folks, a decision has been made.
> 
> I want to thank all of you for the input (bad and good). It’s been a very stressful handful of days and, after a lot of thinking and soul searching I’ve realized my soon-to-be-ex is unwilling to communicate with me in regards to what happened a few days ago.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, she hits all the boxes in the cheater’s catalog and I just simply have neither the emotional energy to find out if she’s had 1, 2, 3, 4 or 0 d*cks in her (none of which are mine) nor put myself through having to monitor her every more or hire a PI to do it.
> 
> I salute the brave who have the cojones to put themselves through such a horrid ordeal.
> 
> The overall experience I’ve had through TAM has been very positive (especially finding out I wasn’t the only cuckhold in the Universe) and I’m definitely going to recommend it to anyone going through marital problems.
> 
> Just as Tom Hanks did in Castaway, I’ve decided to continue my romantic life with the person God put in front of me a few days ago.
> 
> Cheers


1. If the trust is gone in the marriage, calling it quits is a very logical way forward. It typically doesn't pay to continue to sink resources into a losing enterprise. So going forward with the divorce is probably a much better idea that trying to play detective and compiling more evidence.

2. It sounds like you're a pretty well-off guy financially. Economically you're going to take a big hit. My sympathies on that.

3. I'd really caution you on getting involved with anyone else at this point. Even though you seem like an intelligent guy, you're human and you may not make the best choices at this point. Also, I'd point out that it gives your soon-to-be ex-wife an opportunity to create a false narrative. She may concoct a story saying that you had a secret Peruvian honey on the side, and you decided to throw your wife to the curb and create a false accusation about her cheating. It doesn't matter if it's not true or if you have evidence to the contrary, if she throws up enough mud at you, some of will stick in some people's eyes. (Maybe even your kid's eyes.) Sticking to the high road just prevents your soon-to-be-ex from having the opportunity to smear you. 
There's almost 8 billion people on this planet. There are countless women out there, many even BETTER than your Peruvian woman. Timing is everything, bro, you can keep it zipped for a little while if you keep the big picture in mind. After you cross into the safe zone, you can go wild.



3.


----------



## joannacroc

My sympathies for what happened with your wife. Can certainly understand why you want to divorce. 

However....be VERY wary of someone who wants to get serious with a still married man, within a few hours of meeting them. That is not someone who shows good moral character or judgment. 

YOU are also not in a good place to make rational decisions about a romantic life right now. You are still reeling from trauma of finding out your wife is cheating and not yet separated. Please don't complicate your life by allowing your wife to paint you as the cheater and take all your money and your child's respect. Would recommend you try IC
It helped me a lot after I separated from my XH and during the divorce. You need to process what you are going through and close the book on the marriage, heal fully THEN look at dating or you may find yourself with the same type of woman as your current wife.


----------



## In Absentia

joannacroc said:


> My sympathies for what happened with your wife. Can certainly understand why you want to divorce.
> 
> However....be VERY wary of someone who wants to get serious with a still married man, within a few hours of meeting them. That is not someone who shows good moral character or judgment.
> 
> YOU are also not in a good place to make rational decisions about a romantic life right now. You are still reeling from trauma of finding out your wife is cheating and not yet separated. Please don't complicate your life by allowing your wife to paint you as the cheater and take all your money and your child's respect. Would recommend you try IC
> It helped me a lot after I separated from my XH and during the divorce. You need to process what you are going through and close the book on the marriage, heal fully THEN look at dating or you may find yourself with the same type of woman as your current wife.


@joannacroc Now you are in Italy!


----------



## Rus47

Jimi007 said:


> This whole thread is BS....I don't believe any of it. Sounds more like the Jacob poster


How can you tell?


----------



## joannacroc

In Absentia said:


> @joannacroc Now you are in Italy!


For a few more days then back to the US sadly. It is beautiful here.


----------



## Rus47

joannacroc said:


> However....be VERY wary of someone who wants to get serious with a still married man, within a few hours of meeting them. That is not someone who shows good moral character or judgment.


How likely is it that a person's future "soulmate" just happens to be waiting in a random bar in a foreign country? Right when the person is emotionally vulnerable. Personally this is way past moral character or judgement question. It is like a big red sign flashing "danger". It is like a guy who goes into a topless bar and becomes convinced that the dancer on stage is in love with him. 

A person going through the trauma of infidelity and divorce *must* guard themselves from the myriad predators ready to take advantage of their vulnerability. How many long-married recently divorced women suddenly have all of the married male acquaintances ( husbands of their friends) coming out of the woodwork to "help"?


----------



## Jimi007

Rus47 said:


> How can you tell?


Too many un answered questions....And the rude attitude


----------



## Rus47

Wolfman1968 said:


> It doesn't matter if it's not true or if you have evidence to the contrary, if she throws up enough mud at you, some of will stick in some people's eyes. (Maybe even your kid's eyes.) Sticking to the high road just prevents your soon-to-be-ex from having the opportunity to smear you.


The only thing will say, is his wife can and will throw mud even if OP is pure as the driven snow. Just read @Vaughan story of all the crap his wife has put him through, and SHE was the one doing multiple men. OP's ex is going to smear him no matter what. The reason to avoid some random stranger ( or even good "friends" ) of the opposite sex is to avoid being victimized a second time.


----------



## Divinely Favored

JBLH said:


> She basically agreed to my demands, but I don’t know how committed she is to adhering to the demands. I really, for the love of God, hope she really puts up an emotional wall. The main problem is that she works in a school setting and there’s literally nothing I can do to prevent the marriage from going down the drain. I really don’t know how emotionally invested she is in this guy. Every time I ask her things all I get from her is crying, defensiveness and blame shifting. It’s emotionally draining. I’m writing this from a beach overseas… everyone is happy and having a blast and I’m so miserable I would take the next flight back to the US and leave were I given a chance (tried but it’d cost me $3000).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She essentially agreed she royally messed up, that her actions are the same actions a cheater would take BUT keeps insisting she meant good and that the conversation was entirely about work (in July!) and nothing else. I basically asked her to stop punking me, TO RESPECT ME, that I am the father to her child and the one that put a roof over her head but all I get is crying and crickets. I asked her why she wouldn’t say anything about this meeting from Tuesday to Saturday and… she doesn’t know. A grown a** adult can’t answer a simple question. Unreal.
> 
> Should I confront the co-worker? I have his phone #.


Wonder what she would say to polygraph when you get back? They run $500 in Dallas area.


----------



## sideways

OP so you've made the decision to divorce. If your wife isn't going to own up to what's going on then this is definitely a path to take to get out of this infidelity mess.

As for this woman you just met in a bar. You're still married and having an attitude of "well if my wife is messing around I can too" sounds like something a teenager would say and do. Cheating is cheating.

Also You're not thinking clearly here. For you to think nothing of a woman who you just met in a bar, spent two hours with having drinks, with most of those two hours spent with you sharing your story, how well could you really know her??

Yes you know that she gave you attention and showed some compassion to you, but how crazy would this woman have to be to just uproot her life and move from Chicago to Boston to be with a man (you) that she has no idea who you are?? And even worse you're ok with this??

Hopefully the buzz from the alcohol has worn off and you see how messed up this logic is. If not, and you follow through, than at the end of the day you'll be NO different then your wife. Both of you will be cheaters!! It doesn't matter if she's been doing it longer then you or with more people then you, at the end of the day cheating is cheating.

So if you want to go down that road go ahead but you'll deserve everything that you have coming to you and then you'll find yourself back here on TAM (or some other forum on the internet) whining about what a woman has done to you.


----------



## Bounceback67

Wow, Fast Thread ! in 39 posts you have went from, " I think my Wife may be cheating "
to " I'm convinced my Wife is cheating and will be Divorcing her, and I already have her replacement lined up "
I agree with all who have posted, your wife's behaviour has Red Flags all over it.
But with a long term Marriage and Children involved and Huge Financial implications, Don't you think you deserve the truth first.
Good Luck 👍


----------



## Rus47

We dont know what added info OP has received. Or processing past events he has more clarity than ever before. And his STBXW wont answer his questions. So filing divorce papers is IMO appropriate. No reason to stew about it. If she wants to stop the process she can try, but doubt she wants to. She is a trained psychologist, expert at manipulating people. OP and OM for example.

The ONLY thing I believe he is doing wrong is trying to mount a new mare before the old one is gone from his stable.


----------



## Diana7

Wolfman1968 said:


> 1. If the trust is gone in the marriage, calling it quits is a very logical way forward. It typically doesn't pay to continue to sink resources into a losing enterprise. So going forward with the divorce is probably a much better idea that trying to play detective and compiling more evidence.
> 
> 2. It sounds like you're a pretty well-off guy financially. Economically you're going to take a big hit. My sympathies on that.
> 
> 3. I'd really caution you on getting involved with anyone else at this point. Even though you seem like an intelligent guy, you're human and you may not make the best choices at this point. Also, I'd point out that it gives your soon-to-be ex-wife an opportunity to create a false narrative. She may concoct a story saying that you had a secret Peruvian honey on the side, and you decided to throw your wife to the curb and create a false accusation about her cheating. It doesn't matter if it's not true or if you have evidence to the contrary, if she throws up enough mud at you, some of will stick in some people's eyes. (Maybe even your kid's eyes.) Sticking to the high road just prevents your soon-to-be-ex from having the opportunity to smear you.
> There's almost 8 billion people on this planet. There are countless women out there, many even BETTER than your Peruvian woman. Timing is everything, bro, you can keep it zipped for a little while if you keep the big picture in mind. After you cross into the safe zone, you can go wild.
> 
> 
> 
> 3.


Agreed and almost certainly better than some woman who hangs around in bars and picks up married men.


----------



## TAMAT

I think the realization that not only is his WW in a secretive affair now, but it is likely she has had more through the years has crushed him. He wants to stop wasting time and not lose anymore years, months or days. 

He also understands that her profession and possibly the school she works in is a hothouse for affairs and even if he comes back from this one there may be more.

Another question is why his wife would not only allow others at the table to treat him like a non person, but do so herself. It strongly suggests his wife is more invested in her school social cliques then him.


----------



## MattMatt

JBLH said:


> My she-male, crossfit-addicted, penis envy-ex wife is definitely getting 1/2.
> 
> The Peruvian WOMAN I’ve been talking to also makes her own money (she’s a social worker in Chicago) and actually paid for the drinks at the hotel (about $60).
> 
> First time in my life a woman pays for my drinks. My soon-to-be ex drove me to drink.
> 
> By the by, the girl I’m talking to has a specialty in broken homes and the effect they have on children and, as soon as I told her my story, she basically said my wife was most definitely cheating on me. Probably multiple times too.


If your wife is a shemale with or without penis envy, please tell us how you were able to make her with child?


----------



## Numb26

MattMatt said:


> If your wife is a shemale with or without penis envy, please tell us how you were able to make her with child?


My guess? Alcohol


----------



## Mr.Married

Did you happen to meet the woman at the bar before you started this thread ?


----------



## MattMatt

Numb26 said:


> My guess? Alcohol


Shemales don't have wombs.


----------



## Rus47

OP is still monitoring. I believe he mentioned returning stateside Aug 9, at same time as his STBXW and son. Imagine after papers are served and she has reacted, we may get an update.


----------



## Numb26

MattMatt said:


> Shemales don't have wombs.


Not according to CNN! 🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## MissBlue

JBLH said:


> Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?
> 
> Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).
> 
> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.
> 
> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.
> 
> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”
> 
> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


Disloyal. Trust your gut. Dump her. Show your son how a man demands respect or he’ll grow up thinking that being disrespected by his woman is normal 

she and Richard could have rented a hotel like any self respecting cheater. Instead she disrespected you in your home with your kid in the house. She’s a Zero.


----------



## ElOtro

Diana7 said:


> Believe me it wasn't God who put her in front of you.


You may be right.
But it would be cruel to say or even think that was God whom put his wife in his path.


----------



## ElOtro

Diana7 said:


> Agreed and almost certainly better than some woman who hangs around in bars and picks up married men.


Not better than his wife in the work related event he described


----------



## harperlee

ElOtro said:


> You may be right.
> But it would be cruel to say or even think that was God whom put his wife in his path.


I have a minute, so why not. 
God says: I am the alpha, the omega. The first and the last. The beginning and the end.
It may do well to ponder this for a few minutes.
On a lighter note, God is love. Therefore everything that occurs, down to the last most minuscule detail is...Love.
Best to look at what we perceive as the downside of life in a much larger context, since we're bringing God into it.

Don't have anything really to say to the op beyond best wishes and happy hunting ; )


----------



## sideways

You mentioned your son heard you and your wife arguing. He asked you what was going on and you said you explained the situation and he said "dad's right".

How much detail did you tell your son?

Have you asked him why he agrees with you?

He was there with your wife while you were gone (you hadn't arrived in Italy yet). Did he witness anything going on between your wife and OM?

I know it's a delicate situation but have you asked him?


----------



## Megaforce

Did I read this wrong. A coworker from the US randomly showed up at your house in Italy? I must have misread.


----------



## ElOtro

harperlee said:


> I have a minute, so why not.
> God says: I am the alpha, the omega. The first and the last. The beginning and the end.
> It may do well to ponder this for a few minutes.
> On a lighter note, God is love. Therefore everything that occurs, down to the last most minuscule detail is...Love.
> Best to look at what we perceive as the downside of life in a much larger context, since we're bringing God into it.
> 
> Don't have anything really to say to the op beyond best wishes and happy hunting ; )


Since I was answering the post I quoted and my answer haves frame in the OP situation, my words take a specific situated meaning.
I thank your kind words.
I don´t find them specially related to what I´ve said, anyhow.
Best wishes.


----------



## Megaforce

snowbum said:


> I find it hard to believe someone would spend $3000 yo meet a woman they could bang for free at work. This seems sketch.


Exactly. Gotta be BS.


----------



## Megaforce

JBLH said:


> All, thanks for the advice but I cannot pay a PI without her finding out. Short term I will try to do things myself by planting VARs in the car and house, key logger in the home computer and by checking for burner phones.
> 
> Anyone know where the usual hiding spots are for burner phones? I’ve read somewhere else that she will always hide it wherever there’s clutter. As far as the VAR in the car is concerned, where’s the best hiding spot?


Why don't you address the legitimacy of your story in light of the implausible Italy allegation. Seems like complete nonsense.


----------



## Rus47

OM is supposedly a wealthy real-estate tycoon 10 years older than OP's STBXW, living in a $3 million mansion. He hired on recently for "benefits" at school where OP's STBXW "worked" . The school is a hotbed of sex, so no doubt everyone knew about STBXW n OM. The tycoon flew to Italy to have a boat engine repaired. Last I looked RT NYC/Rome could be had for about $500. Lot less than $3000. SYBXW had been saving up, maybe she paid his airfare.


----------



## Megaforce

Right, lots of highly successful realtors with 3 million dollar homes, take second jobs to get health benefits.
And, lots of school teachers or administrators have second homes in Italy.


----------



## Rus47

Megaforce said:


> Right, lots of highly successful realtors with 3 million dollar homes, take second jobs to get health benefits.
> And, lots of school teachers or administrators have second homes in Italy.


Where did I say anything about health benefits? I said "benefits" wink wink. Truthfully no one has any idea if the OM actually works at the school. That is STBXW's story. OP also doesn't know how often STNXW actually works at the school doing psychology either.

OP also has highly paid technical position. STBXW is school psychologist. So between them they pulling good money. Home in Italy not out of realm of reason for wealthy people.


----------



## harperlee

Sarcasm, lost. 
I wonder if the Chappelle show would've gone over better if there weren't so much irony?


----------



## BoSlander

sideways said:


> You mentioned your son heard you and your wife arguing. He asked you what was going on and you said you explained the situation and he said "dad's right".
> 
> How much detail did you tell your son?
> 
> Have you asked him why he agrees with you?
> 
> He was there with your wife while you were gone (you hadn't arrived in Italy yet). Did he witness anything going on between your wife and OM?
> 
> I know it's a delicate situation but have you asked him?


I did. He said he woke up when the guy was outside talking to her. A neighbor I know told me that he did NOT see them going inside the house. BUT!!! This is a guy I specifically asked my wife NOT to talk or see again because I could see the person I fell in love with, the mother of my child slipping through my fingers and I felt there was nothing I could do to prevent it from happening… man, this is tearing me apart.


----------



## BoSlander

Mr.Married said:


> Did you happen to meet the woman at the bar before you started this thread ?


No.


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> I did. He said he woke up when the guy was outside talking to her. A neighbor I know told me that he did NOT see them going inside the house. BUT!!! This is a guy I specifically asked my wife NOT to talk or see again because I could see the person I fell in love with, the mother of my child slipping through my fingers and I felt there was nothing I could do to prevent it from happening… man, this is tearing me apart.


You can only be a chump if you allow it. Laying in the victim chair won’t get you a thing.


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> We dont know what added info OP has received. Or processing past events he has more clarity than ever before. And his STBXW wont answer his questions. So filing divorce papers is IMO appropriate. No reason to stew about it. If she wants to stop the process she can try, but doubt she wants to. She is a trained psychologist, expert at manipulating people. OP and OM for example.
> 
> The ONLY thing I believe he is doing wrong is trying to mount a new mare before the old one is gone from his stable.


It’s really not a mare… the lady and I hit it off. I have so much in common with her. We even agreed to keep on talking AFTER the divorce and see if this takes us anywhere.

It’s BLUNTLY clear the mother of my child, the freckled-faced beauty I fell in love with in a Panama City beach is gone. That person does not exist anymore. And one thing is for certain: I am not going to admit I EVER had anything to do with her change of personality.

Once these people get that first dopamine rush, they’re gone. “Once a cheater, always a cheater” is DEAD right.


----------



## Works

JBLH said:


> It’s really not a mare… the lady and I hit it off. I have so much in common with her. We even agreed to keep on talking AFTER the divorce and see if this takes us anywhere.
> 
> It’s BLUNTLY clear the mother of my child, the freckled-faced beauty I fell in love with in a Panama City beach is gone. That person does not exist anymore. And one thing is for certain: I am not going to admit I EVER had anything to do with her change of personality.
> 
> Once these people get that first dopamine rush, they’re gone. “Once a cheater, always a cheater” is DEAD right.


Wouldn't that put you in the same category as your wife now? Papers haven't been drawn up or signed, and you're already planning a future with the "lady" you met at the bar during this whole ordeal?! 🤷


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rus47 said:


> OM is supposedly a wealthy real-estate tycoon 10 years older than OP's STBXW, living in a $3 million mansion. He hired on recently for "benefits" at school where OP's STBXW "worked" . The school is a hotbed of sex, so no doubt everyone knew about STBXW n OM. The tycoon flew to Italy to have a boat engine repaired. Last I looked RT NYC/Rome could be had for about $500. Lot less than $3000. SYBXW had been saving up, maybe she paid his airfare.


That $80 a check she was taking out of ck acct perhapse?


----------



## Rus47

Divinely Favored said:


> That $80 a check she was taking out of ck acct perhapse?


I’d bet she has a slush fund beyond that. $80 a month is petty cash.


----------



## Rus47

I am curious what the tipping point was that steeled OPs resolve. What solidified the plans? Did his son hear what they were doing or sayung while thot he was sleeping?


----------



## Evinrude58

Someone put the Peruvian putty tat hypnosis on the OP and that steeled his “resolve”…


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rus47 said:


> I’d bet she has a slush fund beyond that. $80 a month is petty cash.


My uncle found a wad of cash my aunt was rat holing. It was several months worth of his salary in cash. She did not work and he worked for McDonald-Douglas, on the team that designed/built the F15 Eagle. I have no idea why those men would put up with, little lone marry the likes of those 5 sisters, included in that is my own mom. Their momma screwed them all up.


----------



## Megaforce

Rus47 said:


> Where did I say anything about health benefits? I said "benefits" wink wink. Truthfully no one has any idea if the OM actually works at the school. That is STBXW's story. OP also doesn't know how often STNXW actually works at the school doing psychology either.
> 
> OP also has highly paid technical position. STBXW is school psychologist. So between them they pulling good money. Home in Italy not out of realm of reason for wealthy people.


OP mentioned that realtor worked at the school to get health benefits, I believe. I can double check.


----------



## Rus47

Megaforce said:


> OP mentioned that realtor worked at the school to get health benefits, I believe. I can double check.


Yes that is indeed what STBXW told OP. A wealthy real estate magnate living in $3MM house needs to work at a school for health insurance?


----------



## Slow Hand

Works said:


> Wouldn't that put you in the same category as your wife now? Papers haven't been drawn up or signed, and you're already planning a future with the "lady" you met at the bar during this whole ordeal?! 🤷


Not in my opinion, the papers are really just a formality.....


----------



## Megaforce

Yeah, it is in his original post. In addition to this far fetched allegation, we are asked to believe that wife expected her husband to believe the guy coincidentally showed up in Italy( this woman, supposedly with an advanced degree would be dumb enough to expect her husband to believe this? Yeah, ok.); that they own a second home in Italy: that a school principal, concerned over staff rampant promiscuity, sent out some memo addressing this; Just unbelievable.


----------



## David60525

JBLH said:


> Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?
> 
> Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).
> 
> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.
> 
> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.
> 
> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”
> 
> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


Get legal advice, get ducks in a row, start getting ready for a divorce. You will be entitled to her pension. Your going to be fudged, financial too.
Put your foot down with her, establish boundaries, confront the guy when on your property.


----------



## ABHale

csj77 said:


> Just leave her. You do NOT control her. She’s your wife, not your child or your slave. You don’t get to tell her where, when and how she works. No spouse has that right.
> If you’re so convinced just divorce her if you don’t like what she’s doing.
> If I were her and you did all the *** everyone here is egging you on with, and you found out i actually wasn’t cheating and then tried to have a normal marriage with me, i’d pack my ***, take your house in Italy and leave you immediately.


What a joke.


----------



## ABHale

csj77 said:


> But you’re fine with the rest of that behaviour?.
> He said “control”. The actions you and everyone else are encouraging equate to “control”.


What in the hell has happened to you!


----------



## ABHale

csj77 said:


> Don’t even get me started on the poor judgement you showed involving your 12 year old child in this.


Want to hear the f**** up part? My 12 year old heard us arguing and demanded we tell him WTH was going on. She did and he immediately said “dad is right.”

If you could actually read, his wife is the one that involved there son.


----------



## ABHale

csj77 said:


> Yea you sound like a real prize. Now your wife is a she-male.
> I was right about you. You’re a misogynist who wants to control his partner.
> She’d be well rid of you.


Who pissed on your life?


----------



## harperlee

Ah, the ever so predictable human condition. So angry, outraged, bitter. How dare you, what about meism. The sound of collective narcissism is sending negativity into the universe. 
Protip: 12 yr. olds don't get to weigh in on your relationship with your wife.
Parents don't do that.


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> I am curious what the tipping point was that steeled OPs resolve. What solidified the plans? Did his son hear what they were doing or sayung while thot he was sleeping?


The fifth time I asked her to come clean was paid with emotion, blame shifting and stonewalling.

I just knew she was pushing me away.

No mas.


----------



## BoSlander

ABHale said:


> Who pissed on your life?


Pissed? She’s probably been drilled more times than a Saudi Arabian field.

I have the eery feeling that she is a serial cheater.


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> I’d bet she has a slush fund beyond that. $80 a month is petty cash.


It’s either a phone bill or a credit card bill she’s paying on the side. I mean, in hindsight, the clues were everywhere… carrying tampons during non cycle days, going into work early, her inviting me to check her phone as much as I wanted, the nappy-headedness, the complaining about the lack of my social life (during Covid mind you,) her wanting to hang out more and more with her friends alone, etc.


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> Yes that is indeed what STBXW told OP. A wealthy real estate magnate living in $3MM house needs to work at a school for health insurance?


My understanding is that he’s got 3 kids and the wife only works in the real estate business. Wouldn’t be surprised he’s just renting the place but the hous IS valued at 3MM.


----------



## BoSlander

Megaforce said:


> Yeah, it is in his original post. In addition to this far fetched allegation, we are asked to believe that wife expected her husband to believe the guy coincidentally showed up in Italy( this woman, supposedly with an advanced degree would be dumb enough to expect her husband to believe this? Yeah, ok.); that they own a second home in Italy: that a school principal, concerned over staff rampant promiscuity, sent out some memo addressing this; Just unbelievable.


Not the school principal, the district superintendent. She issued a famous statement in which she asked (in a nice way) all teachers and administrative staff to stop ****ing eachother AND/OR the students.

The American school system is putrid with unbelievably shady characters.


----------



## manwithnoname

JBLH said:


> Pissed? She’s probably been drilled more times than a Saudi Arabian field.
> 
> I have the eery feeling that she is a serial cheater.


You will start to remember things that will now appear to have been missed red flags.

DNA the kid.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> My understanding is that he’s got 3 kids and the wife only works in the real estate business. Wouldn’t be surprised he’s just renting the place but the hous IS valued at 3MM.


Wait!?! The OM is Married? And it is his WIFE who is the real estate magnate? And you STBXW knew from her research that he was married? Wow.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> The American school system is putrid with unbelievably shady characters.


Yes indeed.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> My understanding is that he’s got 3 kids and the wife only works in the real estate business. Wouldn’t be surprised he’s just renting the place but the hous IS valued at 3MM.


Maybe OM is a "kept" man, his wife keeps him for breeding and her pleasure. In this day and age in a lot of prime locations on either coast, $3MM doesn't buy much of a house. What was once a standard cookie cutter tract home on a tiny lot will sell for several million.


----------



## truststone

JBLH said:


> She knows I know a couple of things but only because she told me. She does not know I also know because I checked the browsing history.
> 
> Am I stupid or something? I don’t find it normal that she would be so infatuated with this guy that she’d spend hours finding information about him on the internet. It’s almost like she’s fantasizing about him…


There is nothing wrong with you !!! Absolutely nothing!! 
the most important thing now is your next step !!!

1) your first impulse was dead on to go back and file for divorce and serve her even if u don’t follow through with divorce but she must be served and see the divorce papers otherwise she will never respect you as a man !

this will serve to accomplish many things
letting you spouse know she killed the marriage you once had and if reconciliation is ever to occur she will be the one doing the heavy lifting for the rest of her life by trying to convince you that she is worthy for you to be with -which is unlikely since now you will never see her in the same light !!
that you demand respect
get her to see you through the right lens which is you are an alpha , that you must be valued and more importantly you will never stand for any level of disrespect or demasculating EVER !!

2)no matter what you must always respect yourself and value yourself - if you don’t !! Don’t expect anyone too
- this is only demonstrated by what you now do by your actions only !!

3)never and I mean never compromise your boundaries EVER !!
- if u do why should anyone else value them ??

4)your spouse has to know you will never sacrifice your boundaries and she will not know this unless you do what your first instinct where to do 

5) must implement 180 NC

6) expose to everyone involved

your family and hers
all friends including those at her work

7) don’t wast your time talking to your wife she will only tell u the trickled truth 

you need to appear straight
nothing above is easy but if you aren’t willing to loose your marriage to save it why should she value you and your marriage vows ????
-if you don’t do the above it will only reinforce her fantasy and all the excuses she told herself will now not appear to be excuses but fact . That u are weak and which lady wants to be with a man that allows her to demasculate him with NO CONSEQUENCES

As males I believe we are wired to want to know details we want to know for sure before we act especially when we love !! . and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that but the question is what is done our actions while we try and figure it out!
1) rugsweep
2) consequences demonstrated by action

. That is where a lot of us males find out whether or not we truly value ourselves and actually have the balls to call ourselves males that the opposite sex is drawn too !! Confident , sure of themselves , stands there ground during turmoil ,security , has values will never let anyone demasculate them without CONSEQUENCES measure only by our actions

Hope this helps please don’t rugsweep you have the TAM community here to help . We have all been where u are so all advice comes from our experiences and hindsight. Your in the right place … be strong !!


----------



## Livvie

JBLH said:


> It’s either a phone bill or a credit card bill she’s paying on the side. I mean, in hindsight, the clues were everywhere… carrying tampons during non cycle days, going into work early, her inviting me to check her phone as much as I wanted, the nappy-headedness, the complaining about the lack of my social life (during Covid mind you,) her wanting to hang out more and more with her friends alone, etc.


Please help me understand. About the tampon thing. As a woman who has had approx. 468 periods in her life (I just calculated it 😀) and been having sex for 30 plus years, what the heck? Why is that a sign of cheating?

Are you suggesting the tampons get worn post sex? 😵‍💫 that sounds truly horrifying and drying and unhealthy and not really plausible. Wearing one when you don’t have your period would be damaging, and I can't believe any male ejaculates THAT much fluid that it would make (dry) removal possible. 

Pantyliner to protect your underwear, yes. Tampon, NO.


----------



## truststone

JBLH said:


> All, thanks for the advice but I cannot pay a PI without her finding out. Short term I will try to do things myself by planting VARs in the car and house, key logger in the home computer and by checking for burner phones.
> 
> Anyone know where the usual hiding spots are for burner phones? I’ve read somewhere else that she will always hide it wherever there’s clutter. As far as the VAR in the car is concerned, where’s the best hiding spot?


C”Mon man stop with the excuses smh this is why she is doing it so in your face and the crappy thing is everyone at work knows smh


----------



## truststone

JBLH said:


> I have to check this out… She’s always been secretive about her check stubs. Not only that, she seems extremely reluctant to call in sick, even when the weather invites for a WFH day. Odd. Extremely odd. She always complains about other employees calling in sick all the time, while she may call in 2-3 times a year. I always tell her:”just call in sick or take a personal! You have plenty of sick days left right?” To what she always says “yes.” But now this got me thinking.
> 
> You know what? The more I inform myself of all of this, the more I realize she may have done this more than one time in the past. I mean… she started liking reaggeton out of the blue. I was like… WTF! Huh?!
> 
> I’ve always been very suspicious of some of her female co workers… they have a chatroom and they chat all the time. Two of them are recently divorced and their chats are extremely hostile toward men. The others talk about this guy Maluma and this other looney Daddy Yankee and they seem to use euphemisms to hide stuff. My wife hardly engages but she has hinted about a meeting, which I was able to decipher to mean they were all going to an after school year pool party.
> 
> My suspicion is that they have information on each other and have some sort of “divine secrets of the yaya sisterhood” thing going. They are so dumb they can’t see they’re going to end up living with cats and dogs. The two oldest in the group have not been able to have a constant relationship for more than a few months. They’re so drunk in their “female power” BS they can’t see what awaits them.
> 
> Holy **ing **!
> 
> I. Cannot. Believe. I. Have. To. Lower. Myself. And. Do. This.


They don’t have to worry because of men like you who do nothing!! No consequences hence why they are able to do it !!


----------



## Divinely Favored

Livvie said:


> Please help me understand. About the tampon thing. As a woman who has had approx. 468 periods in her life (I just calculated it 😀) and been having sex for 30 plus years, what the heck? Why is that a sign of cheating?
> 
> Are you suggesting the tampons get worn post sex? 😵‍💫 that sounds truly horrifying and drying and unhealthy and not really plausible. Wearing one when you don’t have your period would be damaging, and I can't believe any male ejaculates THAT much fluid that it would make (dry) removal possible.
> 
> Pantyliner to protect your underwear, yes. Tampon, NO.


Exactly, Dr gave wife too much T injection when she was trying to get hormones regulated. She literally took a week off work because she was so aroused she had to change panties several times a day. She could not concentrate to work and was just thinking about me and the night before. She was insatiable for a week or so. 10 min after she was ready to go again, and again, and again, and again.


----------



## oldshirt

Livvie said:


> Please help me understand. About the tampon thing. As a woman who has had approx. 468 periods in her life (I just calculated it 😀) and been having sex for 30 plus years, what the heck? Why is that a sign of cheating?
> 
> Are you suggesting the tampons get worn post sex? 😵‍💫 that sounds truly horrifying and drying and unhealthy and not really plausible. Wearing one when you don’t have your period would be damaging, and I can't believe any male ejaculates THAT much fluid that it would make (dry) removal possible.
> 
> Pantyliner to protect your underwear, yes. Tampon, NO.


It is a thing.

I have heard of this before and is a practice of some WWs. 

When they get done seeing the OM, they put in a tampon before going home and then toss it out the car window before getting home. 

It’s to try to get rid of as much residual ‘evidence’ in case the BH is wanting to have sex with her shortly after getting with OM.

It is a practice of WWs and is a red flag of an A.


----------



## ConanHub

JBLH said:


> Hi. I feel so bad having to bring this up and waste people’s time but… this is a great site and the people to go along with it so If you would be so kind, could you please tell me if I’m just freaking our over nothing or not?
> 
> Wife and I have been married for 20 years and have a kid together. We’re in out late 40’s and the kid is in his early teens. We have a somewhat healthy sex life (about 10 times per month). We’re both social but she’s way more social than me. She works in a school as a school psychologist and I’m an analyst at a financial services firm (we both make very good money).
> 
> I’ll cut to the chase: My wife has never been the flirty type, BUT she does work in a school (and school system) where adultery is so prevalent the head of the school system had to write an email to the entire employee pool letting them know that they have to adhere to ethical and social standards like everyone else. This was also corroborated by some employees at a gathering I went to where a lady admitted to me that the staff was “very promiscuous” and that pretty much “everybody had slept with everybody.” I personally think she had had too much wine at that point and was exaggerating a lot. Nonetheless, I did attend a wedding about 7 years ago where two of the teachers were getting married (my wife was hesitant I come due to the fact that the school types are “a funny crowd”). We sat at a round table, 12 of us, and saw my wife acting like a 16 year old, whispering to someone’s ear and pointing to two (married) guys on the dance floor and asking them to dance. I normally would not have an issue with it but my wife, as well as everyone at the table, ignored me to the point I just turned around and just watched the live band play. THIS freaked me out. I saw a totally different person from I guess the character she puts forth at home. It pissed me off so much that STILL, to this day, that feeling of disappointment is still with me.
> 
> All good since then up until about 5 months ago. My wife started mentioning this guy’s name (Richard,) once, twice, thrice and by the fourth time I jokingly said “you’ve mentioned the guy four times already, ALL times from a perspective of admiration, I get it, you like the guy.” She made the usual condescending BS comment and let it go. But I didn’t. I sensed she was talking about the guy a little too much so I kept my ears open. Then, another time, I heard her talking on the phone about Richard with a female coworker of her. THAT is when I realized it wasn’t random. I checked our computer’s browsing history and found out that my wife had been checking this guy on the internet FOR WEEKS. She checked where he lived, how much money he was making, whether he was married, whether he had kids, whether divorce papers had been filed, etc. I mean, she had compiled a whole dossier on this man. Turns out Richard is only working for the school system just so that he can get heath insurance, but he is really a licensed realtor making a ton of money and living in a 3MM house (he’s 55 BTW). That’s when my alarm bells went off: hypergamy. My wife’s dad passed away when she was 15, and I’ve always noticed that she does have “a thing” for men 10 years older than her, father figures. Throughout this process I kept mute about the guy and what I know she had checked online.
> 
> All was good until this summer. We have a house in Italy and, due to the fact that she has the entire summers off, my wife and kid spend the summers in Italy. I usually join them 2-3 weeks in and we usually come back together. While I was in the US, I was constantly checking up on them making sure all was good. All was good. Then, I get there and, on the way from the airport to the house, after 35 minutes of a 45-minute drive, she drops a bomb: “oh, by the way, do you know who visited me at the house? He was just on the way to get a boat engine fixed at this place in our town and sent me a text to have coffee, but the place was closed so we talked in front of the house: Richard.” I went crazy. I asked her “how dare you! After I told you to stop talking about the guy.” A million scenarios went through my head, all of them bad. She kept on reassuring me that it was all work-related (in July mind you) and that it was about Richard getting a position in my wife’s department. I was like “am I being f*cking punked???? Please tell me you’re punking me!!!”
> 
> After all the dust settled, I had to sit her down and explain to her how Richard is reading EACH and EVERYONE of her moves and making decisions accordingly. I had to explain to her that her dropping everything she was doing to have a coffee with him (and she had a lot to do that day) and opening the door of our (husband-less) house to him is going to be taken by Richard as a sign that you are receptive to his advances. Whether you intend it or not. She, of course, started saying non sensical stuff like “I didn’t think you’d want to know, it was all profesional (in July).” Talking to her was a waste of freaking time. I only asked her to tell me what drove her to accept a coffee date from a guy I specifically told her to ignore and why it had taken her from Tuesday to Saturday of that week for her to inform me that Richard was in MY house alone with my wife while my kid slept and she couldn’t answer me. Every time I ask her these two questions she starts crying and, lo and behold, her feelings are FACTS.
> 
> I am now in Italy, wanting to fly back to the US like right now and file for divorce. I know neither what went on that morning and what drove her to succumb to his advances without a single ounce of control.
> 
> Since they’re going to be working together, I’ve asked her to 1) no coffee/lunch/dinner dates and that 2) she keep any and all engagements professional.
> 
> Should I demand more? Am I freaking out over nothing?


Let him have the rest of her as well.

I would divorce in an instant if my wife let a lothario into my home with my child.

The lothario would have the fear of God put into him and probably a restraining order of some sort as well.

Unbelievable.


----------



## Livvie

oldshirt said:


> It is a thing.
> 
> I have heard of this before and is a practice of some WWs.
> 
> When they get done seeing the OM, they put in a tampon before going home and then toss it out the car window before getting home.
> 
> It’s to try to get rid of as much residual ‘evidence’ in case the BH is wanting to have sex with her shortly after getting with OM.
> 
> It is a practice of WWs and is a red flag of an A.


Yeah but is it myth or reality? Seems painful and harmful and unhealthy.


----------



## Rus47

Livvie said:


> Yeah but is it myth or reality? Seems painful and harmful and unhealthy.


Honestly sounds like a myth. Had never heard of such till joined TAM. Would think if was reality, the sisterhood would know of it even if never employed them for that purpose.


----------



## In Absentia

I'm glad I never heard of it...


----------



## oldshirt

Livvie said:


> Yeah but is it myth or reality? Seems painful and harmful and unhealthy.


No it is an actual practice that a number of WWs actually do in real life.

Now how effective, comfortable or safe it is I cannot comment on. 

But I do know that people actually do it.


----------



## oldshirt

Rus47 said:


> Honestly sounds like a myth. Had never heard of such till joined TAM. Would think if was reality, the sisterhood would know of it even if never employed them for that purpose.


I have heard of people doing in real life over the years.

But I don’t know if I’ve ever come across it being discussed here on TAM before.


----------



## Megaforce

JBLH said:


> Not the school principal, the district superintendent. She issued a famous statement in which she asked (in a nice way) all teachers and administrative staff to stop ****ing eachother AND/OR the students.
> 
> The American school system is putrid with unbelievably shady characters.


Oh, really? Puleeeez.


----------



## Jimi007

Rus47 said:


> Honestly sounds like a myth. Had never heard of such till joined TAM. Would think if was reality, the sisterhood would know of it even if never employed them for that purpose.


This whole thread us complete bs...it's all stuff the OP has read on TAM...


----------



## MattMatt

Back in the 1970s my school was rocked by a scandal. The deputy headmaster and the French teacher were found having sex in the supply cupboard. The boy who found them was traumatised.


----------



## Rus47

MattMatt said:


> Back in the 1970s my school was rocked by a scandal. The deputy headmaster and the French teacher were found having sex in the supply cupboard. The boy who found them was traumatised.


The kid got an education anyway. In the early 60s our 40 something female counselor would take several of the varsity football team home with her after a game for some other games. Unfortunately I never made the football team team, I played baseball


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> Wait!?! The OM is Married? And it is his WIFE who is the real estate magnate? And you STBXW knew from her research that he was married? Wow.


Yup. Got wind of her knowing when I read an exchange between my wife and another female friend in which they were discussing how beautiful she is and what good taste in clothes she has.

These two hyenas are probably jealous of her.


----------



## Megaforce

Yeah, those school superintendents are always issuing directives that would document their having notice of sexual activity between staff and students. It really helps their defense against any lawsuits to be on the record with their having knowledge.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

I stopped playing back on page #3.

I couldn't believe there are 18 pages in this thread when I checked today. 🤣


----------



## Goose54

I learned with that LTC SEAL wanna-be that when a thread moves as fast as this one did, something is up...this guy went from finding out to meeting his next ex-wife in 3 days. Something just smells. I'll finish this thread in a few weeks and see where OP takes it.


----------



## Rus47

Goose54 said:


> .this guy went from finding out to meeting his next ex-wife in 3 days.


But was that really OPs timeline? He wrote about what had happened from 7 years ago to the present. And agonized about how to confirm his wife was or wasnt cheating. And why he couldnt hire a PI because she would know. And why he didnt want to file until he knew.

Something seemed to flip a switch. Probably meeting the Peruvian while drowning his sorrows. She mirrored him and told him the STBXW was for sure cheating and bought his drinks. 

So maybe 3 days in this thread but actually years in IRL. He started thinking back and recognizing things he hadnt before. That solidified his direction. I think his wife is history for him, no matter what.


----------



## ABHale

He has been making excuses for her actions and behavior for a very long time. It sounds like he has had enough and realized that there are other women out there. It’s could be that meeting the other woman made him realize that there is more to life then a wife that keeps acting shady.


----------



## Gabriel

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I stopped playing back on page #3.
> 
> I couldn't believe there are 18 pages in this thread when I checked today. 🤣


I don't give advice to combative people for very long. There's a lot of anger. I don't question the validity on this one too much, but the attitude is hostile, guessing the marriage consists of a lot of yelling and arguing. Nobody deserves to be cheated on, but probably best to take the Cross-Fit rage and the OP rage and go their separate ways. Seems that's what's going to happen and that's good.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

MattMatt said:


> Back in the 1970s my school was rocked by a scandal. The deputy headmaster and the French teacher were found having sex in the supply cupboard. The boy who found them was traumatised.


How old was the boy?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

MattMatt said:


> Back in the 1970s my school was rocked by a scandal. The deputy headmaster and the French teacher were found having sex in the supply cupboard. The boy who found them was traumatised.


Back in the 70s ime a lot of teachers were fooling around in our old school. A known thing but no students were traumatized over knowing. Mid and late 70s it wasn't a big deal.


----------



## MattMatt

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> How old was the boy?


13 or so. He was in my year, but not my class.


----------



## Rus47

Believe OP back on US soil today. So by next week we ought receive update on STBXW and OM response to her being served.


----------



## BoSlander

Hi Folks.

Updates to come.


----------



## Chaparralredux

ABHale said:


> He has been making excuses for her actions and behavior for a very long time. It sounds like he has had enough and realized that there are other women out there. It’s could be that meeting the other woman made him realize that there is more to life then a wife that keeps acting shady.


And he has no doubt been reading other threads. Folks that have been around here for some time believed she was cheating after the first post. It’s between schools and medical facilities that claim the crown for most cheaters. Her system seems to be worse than most. Then he mentions in passing how much she is “going out with the girls.”


----------



## BoSlander

Oh Folks, update.

DDs are still being drafted but my wife has been informed that I’ve commenced amicable divorce proceedings. She threw the biggest fit I’ve ever seen her throw. Like literally lost it. My impression is that the act of us walking into our home, in her mind, was my way of saying to her that “I still want to continue as is” and me mentioning the coming divorce hit her like a ton of bricks. She was crying hysterically for an hour, going as far as calling family members on both sides to let them know how I was stabbing her in the back. All the while she was putting on a show I stood there stone-faced. She even went as far as saying she was willing to go into the kitchen, grab a knife and stab herself to show me that “I’m only yours.” She really needs help, not from me though. For her, this misery is happening in slow motion, and now she knows how I’ve been feeling for the past couple of weeks.

When she came to, we had a conversation about what had taken place and the revelations were a Greatest Hits of cheater literature. She said Richard was only there a couple of times to talk about work and that he only kisses her on the cheek one night. Moreover, she claims that the men our neighbor saw leaving the house after midnight were handymen that were there to fix a pipe that was making so much noise they couldn’t sleep at night (according to her due to the house being uninhabited since July of 2021). She also walked back on the no-text-deleting and now claims she DID delete the texts she thought I was going to misinterpret. So now I’m not dealing with a lying animal, I’m dealing with a lying AND condescending animal. Needless to say, I have no doubt they did it and that they STILL have a PA+EA.

Oh, and she also let me see the work emails… lots missing of course but, the impression I get is that her school system is like a cult. They behave like a pack of wolves and they truly genuinely believe they are like a “second family.” They go out together, have bbq parties together, text each other til late, etc. These people LITERALLY live two DISTINCT lives and some of the participants have issues when participants in one of the lives delves in the other life.

I read somewhere that in order for a friendship to make it to a full blown EA, it has to meet 6 out of 10 parameters. Teachers, school psychologists and other administrative staff are ALWAYS at 5 out of 10, so it comes as no surprise that the school departments are riddled with adultery. I mean, I saw emails from a group of MARRIED women talking about how they sometimes invite certain males to their only-girls get-togethers, which my wife piled on about by the way. These ANIMALS feel safe in the little exclusive world they’ve created.


----------



## Mr.Married

Divinely Favored said:


> Exactly, Dr gave wife too much T injection when she was trying to get hormones regulated. She literally took a week off work because she was so aroused she had to change panties several times a day. She could not concentrate to work and was just thinking about me and the night before. She was insatiable for a week or so. 10 min after she was ready to go again, and again, and again, and again.


Can I have that doctors number?


----------



## ABHale

I would share the emails about them all girls party and one guy with the other husbands


----------



## Works

Mr.Married said:


> Can I have that doctors number?


🤦


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> Moreover, she claims that the men our neighbor saw leaving the house after midnight were handymen that were there to fix a pipe


So the italian plumbing crews work after midnight? I have trouble getting *one* plumber to show up during daytime. Does she have a invoice for the work performed?


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> I saw emails from a group of MARRIED women talking about how they sometimes invite *certain males *to their only-girls get-togethers, which my wife piled on about by the way.


Was Mr Big D one of those certain males?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rus47 said:


> So the italian plumbing crews work after midnight? I have trouble getting *one* plumber to show up during daytime. Does she have a invoice for the work performed?


Laying pipe when they can.🤣🤣🤣

Sorry for the obvious joke.


----------



## Rus47

Yeah, I guess she wouldn't have an invoice for THAT type work.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> They go out together, have bbq parties together, text each other til late, etc.


Did you know of these parties and late texting before now? Were you ever invited to any of them or were you totally in the dark? Did she have an explanation regarding the parking far from work and going to work early?


----------



## In Absentia

Rus47 said:


> So the italian plumbing crews work after midnight? I have trouble getting *one* plumber to show up during daytime. Does she have a invoice for the work performed?


No way that's happening... I know for experience... not that I'm plumber, but...


----------



## In Absentia

I'm still rather surprised how some people are willing to divorce without any actual proof of the cheating. I know there will be lots saying "you don't need proof" blah blah blah, but there's a kid there too.


----------



## So far so good

JBLH said:


> She said Richard was only there a couple of times to talk about work and that he only kisses her on the cheek one night.


Ah yes the "I only kissed him once and I didn’t like it". The typical first admission.

None of this matters now, you are D her, time to move on.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

In Absentia said:


> No way that's happening... I know for experience... not that I'm plumber, but...


The parts and line items for repairs used on this particular invoice would include:
Lube, organic and edible safe.
8 to 10inches of renewable organic probe to check for obstructions in love tunnel access hatch.
Additional time to prep customers access hatches for pipe and probe insertions. 
Misc test and installation accessories for training Customer in using new pipe installed. 
Pre-scheduling fee for Customer requested daily follow up visits by original plumber and all plumbers on field staff support team.

So, that said, everyone decided all work coordination and billing to be verbal only as to not promote any images of impropriety.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Mr.Married said:


> Can I have that doctors number?


HRT works wonders. Just have to have a spouse that gives a crap about you.


----------



## In Absentia

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The parts and line items for repairs used on this particular invoice would include:
> Lube, organic and edible safe.
> 8 to 10inches of renewable organic probe to check for obstructions in love tunnel access hatch.
> Additional time to prep customers access hatches for pipe and probe insertions.
> Misc test and installation accessories for training Customer in using new pipe installed.
> Pre-scheduling fee for Customer requested daily follow up visits by original plumber and all plumbers on field staff support team.
> 
> So, that said, everyone decided all work coordination and billing to be verbal only as to not promote any images of impropriety.


I just don't believe the story...


----------



## Rus47

In Absentia said:


> I'm still rather surprised how some people are willing to divorce without any actual proof of the cheating. I now there will be lots saying "you don't need proof" blah blah blah, but there's a kid there too.


The thing is they are a long way from divorce being done. The papers havent even been served. The process can stop at anytime. But OPs wife now knows he is serious. And she has the option to fight to keep him if she wants to. She has a lot of ‘splainin to do, again if she wants to.

Somehow, the time in Italy solidified his plans from wanting to try to be his own PI to just filing for divorce and being done with her. It must have been really bad. He had told her before to stay away from Mr Big D and she ignored what he told her. And she hasn't come clean to him yet.


----------



## In Absentia

Rus47 said:


> The thing is they are a long way from divorce being done. The papers havent even been served. The process can stop at anytime. But OPs wife now knows he is serious. And she has the option to fight to keep him if she wants to. She has a lot of ‘splainin to do, again if she wants to.
> 
> Somehow, the time in Italy solidified his plans from wanting to try to be his own PI to just filing for divorce and being done with her. It must have been really bad. He had told her before to stay away from Mr Big D and she ignored what he told her. And she hasn't come clean to him yet.


What's the point in coming clean? He will definitely divorce her if she does. He has no proof she has cheated, so it will always be his word against hers and he will look bad. He won't see his kid much and he will have to give his wife half of his fortune, including his cryptos... the whole just doesn't make sense...


----------



## Rus47

In Absentia said:


> He won't see his kid much


Why not? 50/50 is the norm. We have lot of divorced in our family, moms n dads split custody. Moms more than happy to let Dad have kids as much as they want.

They both have good paying jobs, if they are in community property state, half of everything is hers. Only half of the “fortune” is his anyway.


----------



## In Absentia

Rus47 said:


> Why not? 50/50 is the norm. We have lot of divorced in our family, moms n dads split custody. Moms more than happy to let Dad have kids as much as they want.
> 
> They both have good paying jobs, if they are in community property state, half of everything is hers anyway. Only half of the “fortune” is his anyway.


If he is happy seeing his kid raised by another man, I'm happy for him too...


----------



## Rus47

In Absentia said:


> If he is happy seeing his kid raised by another man, I'm happy for him too...


Actuallly, the kid is old enough to live with whichever parent he wants to live with. He may know more what has been happening and will want nothing to do with his mom.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> What's the point in coming clean? He will definitely divorce her if she does. He has no proof she has cheated, so it will always be his word against hers and he will look bad. He won't see his kid much and he will have to give his wife half of his fortune, including his cryptos... the whole just doesn't make sense...


But she has already engaged in infidelity. You don't need PIV pics to know. Deleting text messages that he would "misinterpret". That in itself is enough. Deleted emails. She was constantly talking about this guy to husband and coworkers and stalked the man via SM for weeks. The guy randomly shows up at their house in another country. She admits to him kissing her. As it its, that is enough solid evidence for marital infidelity in my book, beyond just poor boundary recognition. Now throw in all the other circumstantial evidence and it is just too much IMO. 

Maybe for OP marital fidelity is more important than wealth.


----------



## Evinrude58

In Absentia said:


> I'm still rather surprised how some people are willing to divorce without any actual proof of the cheating. I know there will be lots saying "you don't need proof" blah blah blah, but there's a kid there too.


I’m surprised you’re not convinced. Everyone doesn’t need a video of them slapping nasties. If adultery were a crime and I was on a jury, I’d have no problem voting guilty beyond a reasonable doubt with the evidence op provided.


----------



## In Absentia

BigDaddyNY said:


> But she has already engaged in infidelity. You don't need PIV pics to know. Deleting text messages that he would "misinterpret". That in itself is enough. Deleted emails. She was constantly talking about this guy to husband and coworkers and stalked the man via SM for weeks. The guy randomly shows up at their house in another country. She admits to him kissing her. As it its, that is enough solid evidence for marital infidelity in my book, beyond just poor boundary recognition. Now throw in all the other circumstantial evidence and it is just too much IMO.
> 
> Maybe for OP marital fidelity is more important than wealth.


There is no actual proof she's been unfaithful. It's suspicious, yes, but he has no proof. She said he kissed her on her cheek. But again, if he wants to give away half of his fortune, see his kid 50% of the time with another man in the picture, that's his prerogative. It's a lot to give up for "suspicions". If you then really believe he was using a VPN to protect his cryptos when in Italy... why did he say "ever heard of NordicVPN?". It's a bizarre thing specifying the provider, you would only say, "ever heard of VPN?". NordicVPN is the first hit when searching VPNs on Google. I'll rest my case.


----------



## In Absentia

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m surprised you’re not convinced. Everyone doesn’t need a video of them slapping nasties. If adultery were a crime and I was on a jury, I’d have no problem voting guilty beyond a reasonable doubt with the evidence op provided.


I think her attorney will have a different story for her husband.


----------



## Jimi007

In Absentia said:


> I think her attorney will have a different story for her husband.


I don't believe any of his story....I asked questions he never answered any of them. Or anyone else's either. Instead the OP became condescending @ in Absentia


----------



## Works

Jimi007 said:


> I don't believe any of his story....I asked questions he never answered any of them. Or anyone else's either. Instead the OP became condescending @ in Absentia


I don't buy it either.. he went from wanting advice, to being rude, to meeting another woman and not caring.. 🤷


----------



## BoSlander

ABHale said:


> I would share the emails about them all girls party and one guy with the other husbands


That’s my thought exactly. If she gives me a hard time with the divorce, I’m spilling the beans.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> There is no actual proof she's been unfaithful. It's suspicious, yes, but he has no proof. She said he kissed her on her cheek. But again, if he wants to give away half of his fortune, see his kid 50% of the time with another man in the picture, that's his prerogative. It's a lot to give up for "suspicions". If you then really believe he was using a VPN to protect his cryptos when in Italy... why did he say "ever heard of NordicVPN?". It's a bizarre thing specifying the provider, you would only say, "ever heard of VPN?". NordicVPN is the first hit when searching VPNs on Google. I'll rest my case.


Stalking a man for weeks on SM is being unfaithful. Deleting texts, aka hiding communication, with another man is being unfaithful. Having a man your husband asked you to stop talking about and too show up at your Italian Villa while you aren't there is being unfaithful. There is plenty of proof she has been unfaithful to her marriage.


----------



## In Absentia

BigDaddyNY said:


> Stalking a man for weeks on SM is being unfaithful. Deleting texts, aka hiding communication, with another man is being unfaithful. Having a man your husband asked you to stop talking about and too show up at your Italian Villa while you aren't there is being unfaithful. There is plenty of proof she has been unfaithful to her marriage.


That's no concrete proof, though, is it?


----------



## ABHale

In Absentia said:


> What's the point in coming clean? He will definitely divorce her if she does. He has no proof she has cheated, so it will always be his word against hers and he will look bad. He won't see his kid much and he will have to give his wife half of his fortune, including his cryptos... the whole just doesn't make sense...


The relationship is burning to the ground but you can’t see the fire because of all the smoke.

People have a limit on how much bs they will put up with until they say f it.


----------



## ABHale

JBLH said:


> That’s my thought exactly. If she gives me a hard time with the divorce, I’m spilling the beans.


Then you can send out the emails after it is finished.


----------



## ABHale

In Absentia said:


> There is no actual proof she's been unfaithful. It's suspicious, yes, but he has no proof. She said he kissed her on her cheek. But again, if he wants to give away half of his fortune, see his kid 50% of the time with another man in the picture, that's his prerogative. It's a lot to give up for "suspicions". If you then really believe he was using a VPN to protect his cryptos when in Italy... why did he say "ever heard of NordicVPN?". It's a bizarre thing specifying the provider, you would only say, "ever heard of VPN?". NordicVPN is the first hit when searching VPNs on Google. I'll rest my case.


By her own words she has been unfaithful.

She has lied and manipulated the truth for years. Going to all girl night out while inviting one guy to join them.


----------



## In Absentia

ABHale said:


> By her own words she has been unfaithful.
> 
> She has lied and manipulated the truth for years. Going to all girl night out while inviting one guy to join them.


I might have missed the bit where she says she's been unfaithful... I though she said he gave her a kiss on her cheek, which is what you do in Italy, anyway. The point I was making is that the proof is lacking - but I do agree that the BS content seems quite high. Since I don't believe the story is true, I'll keep out of it now.


----------



## BoSlander

Works said:


> I don't buy it either.. he went from wanting advice, to being rude, to meeting another woman and not caring.. 🤷


The reason for that is that this has been a long arduous process that started with her distancing herself and not engaging in any sex for months. Believe me, this didn’t fall out of the sky. Me finding the texts between her and Richard is what opened my eyes and ears to what she was doing.


----------



## BoSlander

Anyone know what application I can use to retrieve all contents from an old iPhone (2012-ish)?

i have my ex’s old phone and it looks to be a treasure trove of deleted texts, emails and photos.
Being able to extract this information will tell me FOR SURE whether she’s been a serial cheater or not.

I highly suspect she cheated on me in the mid 2010s… I remember seeing one of her old boyfriends sending her a friend request and her accepting it. She then, within a month or two, closed down her Facebook account.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> That's no concrete proof, though, is it?


Concrete proof of what? That he put his penis in her? I guess not, but you don't need that to be unfaithful to your marriage. Hiding texts and emails with and about a man you spent weeks stalking is being unfaithful. There is ample evidence of that.


----------



## SRCSRC

You don't need a smoking gun to convince a spouse his or her partner is cheating. Too many red flags mean only one thing. It has been going on for too long, dating back many years. You don't need to prove adultery to get a divorce. OP has had it with his wife's behavior. She lies and deletes incriminating evidence. The plumber story is absolutely ludicrous. Her infatuation with the OM is obvious. Her hysterical reaction to the divorce news is so typical of a busted cheater. She should move heaven and earth to prove she has done nothing. That includes producing an invoice of the alleged work the plumbers performed, actively helping her husband retrieve all her deleted texts, and immediately setting up a polygraph exam. Instead, she gets hysterical. She thought everything would be rug swept as before. Not this time. The no sex for months red flag is humongous. OP does not wish to reconcile. She should confess to all indiscretions, leave her employment, cut ties with all her buddies, out them all, enter counseling with a therapist versed in infidelity, go to counseling in order to coparent successfully, and begin to live an honest life. She should do this regardless of whether her husband will stop the divorce. For the sake of her son, she needs to clean up her sordid life. Sadly, OP should DNA his son just to make a point. Also, a STD test is necessary.


----------



## In Absentia

BigDaddyNY said:


> Concrete proof of what? That he put his penis in her? I guess not, but you don't need that to be unfaithful to your marriage. Hiding texts and emails with and about a man you spent weeks stalking is being unfaithful. There is ample evidence of that.


Well, that’s not concrete evidence. You need incriminating texts/emails, VAR recorded messages, photos, being caught red handed. She might be cheating but deleted messages and stalking someone on FB prove nothing. The OP is obviously free to believe she is cheating. As I said before, her behaviour is highly suspicious.


----------



## Gabriel

The woman is in an adulterous culture at work. Established.
The woman spent WAY too much effort and time stalking a man online. Established.
This man, MIRACULOUSLY shows up at their vacation home in Italy. Established. (this one, to me, is the biggest smoking gun and violation of them all, by far)
STBX has hidden and deleted communications with said man. Established.
Sex in the marriage as dwindled to almost nothing. Established.

Whether OP gets any more proof or not is irrelevant. This is enough to prove untoward behavior, whether a physical affair or not.

Her reaction to his divorce announcement tells me:

1) She did not expect to be caught in said untoward behavior.
2) She is addicted to her cake eating life and can't handle it going away.


----------



## Gabriel

In order for Richard to be at their home in Italy.

1) She would have had to tell him the address (no reason to do this unless it was pre-planned for him to come over).
2) He would have had to make very expensive arrangements to get there (which men don't do unless they are getting laid)

As soon as I found out this person was at the Italian home I would have gone ballistic. Guessing STBX snowed her son with some story, and he was mostly there at night when son was sleeping. She told OP about it because their son happened to see the guy and she needed a story.

If my wife told me this while driving to the house to meet her and our son at our vacation home, I would have told my son to pack his things and taken him back to the US, and told my wife that her stuff would be in the garage when she was ready to come back. And I'd put the Italian home on the market. It's soiled now.

Two more comments on her reaction.

#1 it was, as was said, to "put on a show". Total theater
#2 she thought she had gotten away with it. The shock of realizing she hadn't took her out.

Richard: Well, maybe I can meet you in Italy
STBX: Oh, you're going to meet me in Italy, all right. But, hey, just make sure it's at night after my son goes to bed. Oooo, this is perfect!
Son: Mom, who was that guy that came over?
STBX: Oh, that's Richard. I actually know him from school. He, uh, happened to be fixing his boat nearby. Isn't that crazy?
STBX: Crap, now I've got to tell OP he was here because Son might say something. Maybe he'll buy it.
OP: (argues with STBX, son hears)
OP: Son, that's not really appropriate, don't you agree?
Son: Yes dad, it doesn't seem right
SILENCE THE REST OF THE TRIP, OP goes to TAM, meets Peruvian lady out drinking, 
STBX: (He's stopped talking about it, I think I'm in the clear)
FAMILY GETS HOME
STBX: (yep, feels normal)
OP: Honey, I'm starting divorce proceedings
STBX; NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - I thought I was in the CLEAR. NOOOOOO


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> Anyone know what application I can use to retrieve all contents from an old iPhone (2012-ish)?
> 
> i have my ex’s old phone and it looks to be a treasure trove of deleted texts, emails and photos.
> Being able to extract this information will tell me FOR SURE whether she’s been a serial cheater or not.
> 
> I highly suspect she cheated on me in the mid 2010s… I remember seeing one of her old boyfriends sending her a friend request and her accepting it. She then, within a month or two, closed down her Facebook account.


Why keep yourself in this? You know enough. You are a chump because you allow it.


----------



## Alittlelost57

Marc878 said:


> Why keep yourself in this? You know enough. You are a chump because you allow it.


Right. This excessive gathering of information and questioning people here just delays acting on the already sufficient info. I guess that's the purpose, to delay or altogether avoid acting.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> Well, that’s not concrete evidence. You need incriminating texts/emails, VAR recorded messages, photos, being caught red handed. She might be cheating but deleted messages and stalking someone on FB prove nothing. The OP is obviously free to believe she is cheating. As I said before, her behaviour is highly suspicious.


It is concrete and she is caught red handed. She said she deleted some texts so he couldn't see them because they would be "misinterpreted". That IS concrete evidence that she has been unfaithful to the marriage. She was sending and receiving texts from another man that can't be seen by her husband. Unless she is hiding plans for her husband's surprise party the is no valid excuse for that. Combine that with everything else and there is only on conclusion.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> Anyone know what application I can use to retrieve all contents from an old iPhone (2012-ish)?
> 
> i have my ex’s old phone and it looks to be a treasure trove of deleted texts, emails and photos.
> Being able to extract this information will tell me FOR SURE whether she’s been a serial cheater or not.
> 
> I highly suspect she cheated on me in the mid 2010s… I remember seeing one of her old boyfriends sending her a friend request and her accepting it. She then, within a month or two, closed down her Facebook account.


Take a look here: Standard Evidence Post 
And do a search on the TAM search bar for "recovering iphone messages". An iPhone form 2012 would be a 5 or 6. So you need something that can still interrogate database from that IOS.

Do you have an old iTunes backup from then? If so, you could just restore the messages from the iTune backup.


----------



## oldshirt

In Absentia said:


> Well, that’s not concrete evidence. You need incriminating texts/emails, VAR recorded messages, photos, being caught red handed. She might be cheating but deleted messages and stalking someone on FB prove nothing. The OP is obviously free to believe she is cheating. As I said before, her behaviour is highly suspicious.


you don’t need any of that.

in 2022 America you can divorce someone just because you don’t want to be married to them anymore.

you don’t need proof of an affair. You don’t need proof of sex. You don’t need proof of inappropriate texts or emails or conversations.

in fact, there doesn’t even need to be infidelity or abuse or anything. You can divorce them simply because you don’t like them any more.

now I don’t know if the OP’s wife actually hooked up with another man or if this is all just some bad looking circumstances but no inappropriate behavior at all.

but if the OP does not want to remain married to a woman that carry’s on conversations with other men and deletes them, and if he doesn’t want to remain married to a woman that meets old flames in other countries and gets kissed on the cheek by them,,, he does not have to remain married to her.

someone does not have to actually have sex with someone else in order for their spouse to divorce them and he does not need concrete proof of sexual intercourse for him to divorce her.

he can divorce her simply because he wants to and if he wants to because she txts and emails other men and then meets them in other countries, that’s all he needs.


----------



## Evinrude58

But make no mistake, they slapped nasties in Italy and you can bet your next paycheck that the guy’s son KNOWS what took place in Italy.
If the story is legit.
Lest we forget, OP’s Italian neighbor saw a man leave about midnight—- the plumber….
I’d divorce her if only because she thinks he’s stupid enough to believe in a plumber working at midnight. It’s worse than believing in the tooth fairy at 40 yrs old.


----------



## oldshirt

Evinrude58 said:


> But make no mistake, they slapped nasties in Italy and you can bet your next paycheck that the guy’s son KNOWS what took place in Italy.
> If the story is legit.
> Lest we forget, OP’s Italian neighbor saw a man leave about midnight—- the plumber….
> I’d divorce her if only because she thinks he’s stupid enough to believe in a plumber working at midnight. It’s worse than believing in the tooth fairy at 40 yrs old.


just for the sake of argument, let’s follow @In Absentia line of thinking and that there is no proof of an actual sexual encounter here.

does that obligate the OP to remain married to her if he no longer wants to be with a woman that conducts secret communications, meets men in foreign countries and goes out partying in mixed groups without him all the time?

does one need proof that actual sex has taken place or can people divorce their partners because the partners is living a life or a lifestyle that they no longer want to be a part of?

We need to also keep in mind that while the wife has been doing all this with other men, she has not been sexually active with the OP.

Does he have to wait until he has proof positive that she’s screwing someone else in order to opt out of this marriage? 

didn’t the necessity of having proof of infidelity in order to divorce go away in the ‘70s?

so while I admit her behavior seems very suspicious, I will contend that the OP may simply no longer want to be with her if he no longer wants to live this way.

maybe he should stop with the accusations of infidelity because all that will do is make her try to contend she isn’t cheating.

maybe he should just say he accepts her denials of infidelity but doesn’t want to stay with her anyway.


----------



## Evinrude58

Give her the Oscar for her theatrics abd the divorce papers for being a terribly crappy liar.
How’s that?


----------



## In Absentia

oldshirt said:


> just for the sake of argument, let’s follow @In Absentia line of thinking and that there is no proof of an actual sexual encounter here.
> 
> does that obligate the OP to remain married to her if he no longer wants to be with a woman that conducts secret communications, meets men in foreign countries and goes out partying in mixed groups without him all the time?
> 
> does one need proof that actual sex has taken place or can people divorce their partners because the partners is living a life or a lifestyle that they no longer want to be a part of?
> 
> We need to also keep in mind that while the wife has been doing all this with other men, she has not been sexually active with the OP.
> 
> Does he have to wait until he has proof positive that she’s screwing someone else in order to opt out of this marriage?
> 
> didn’t the necessity of having proof of infidelity in order to divorce go away in the ‘70s?
> 
> so while I admit her behavior seems very suspicious, I will contend that the OP may simply no longer want to be with her if he no longer wants to live this way.
> 
> maybe he should stop with the accusations of infidelity because all that will do is make her try to contend she isn’t cheating.
> 
> maybe he should just say he accepts her denials of infidelity but doesn’t want to stay with her anyway.


That’s fine… he doesn’t have to be with her if he thinks she’s cheated. That wasn’t my point. The whole story seems absurd to me.


----------



## Gabriel

In Absentia said:


> That’s fine… he doesn’t have to be with her if he thinks she’s cheated. That wasn’t my point. The whole story seems absurd to me.


I initially thought that too. That, and the fact he was combative to me and a few others here.....but he was RIGHT in the middle of it, clearly on edge with his life about to fall apart. The rest of the story checks out pretty well to me. 

The most feasibly ridiculous part of it is the fact this dude showed up at their house in Italy. I couldn't wrap my head around that, which is why I kept questioning the OP to be more clear. But once that was established and I took my jaw off the floor, it took me awhile to piece it together.....

Son saw him. Neighbor saw him. STBX needed a cover story.

Then it all made sense. When someone is embarking on a physical affair, what's a better place to act on that then an Italian vacation home, where the husband would be 7,000 miles away? Pesky son was in the way, but they tried to work around it.

Oops.


----------



## snowbum

My question is how do you afford a villa in Italy? And how does a teacher afford to spend time in Italy on a whim?


----------



## BoSlander

Marc878 said:


> Why keep yourself in this? You know enough. You are a chump because you allow it.


Because of two things: 1) she contacted a bunch of our relatives to let them know how much of an a-hole I am for “dumping” her and 2) I find it extremely irritating that she thinks I am naïve enough to believe her horsesh*t excuses, and her attitude indirectly hinting that I signed up for an open marriage because I’m a lesser male. F*** that sh*t!


----------



## BoSlander

snowbum said:


> My question is how do you afford a villa in Italy? And how does a teacher afford to spend time in Italy on a whim?


It’s not a vila, it’s a small 1-family house in a small Italian village that I bought for 80,000 Euros.


----------



## BoSlander

Evinrude58 said:


> But make no mistake, they slapped nasties in Italy and you can bet your next paycheck that the guy’s son KNOWS what took place in Italy.
> If the story is legit.
> Lest we forget, OP’s Italian neighbor saw a man leave about midnight—- the plumber….
> I’d divorce her if only because she thinks he’s stupid enough to believe in a plumber working at midnight. It’s worse than believing in the tooth fairy at 40 yrs old.


I really, for the life of me, cannot understand how she thought she was going to get away with it. It’s a small Italian village, where any and all outsiders are taken account of immediately and people warned. She was either careless or trying to send me a message.


----------



## Rus47

snowbum said:


> My question is how do you afford a villa in Italy? And how does a teacher afford to spend time in Italy on a whim?


She isn't a teacher. She is the school psychologist, and has been for a number of years. Average pay 114k, as high as 200k. OP is with a financial services company he is a senior level person, so pay in 200-300k range not out of line. I don't recall him saying the digs in Italy were a "villa". Who knows, maybe it was inherited. But grossing 1/2 million a year, maybe investing in a place in Italy is better than real estate in the US. 

She has the summer off as do most in education. So she can spend the summer in Italy as well as anywhere else.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> She was either careless or trying to send me a message.


The latter. 

BTW, my congratulations on your good deal on the house in Italy. I sincerely hope you are able to keep it for yourself when the dust settles. Maybe retire to there to get away from all of the drama. I would think financial services work could be done remotely. You could be living the dream with the Peruvian lady, or someone that will treat you just as well.


----------



## Evinrude58

I’d have to ask my son and let him get it off his chest. I’ve been there. My oldest boy knew my ex was a cheater before I did and he told me that she told him “not to tell me it’d just make things worse”. When she told him that I didn’t even know we had a problem. He told me through tears.
Your son knows what’s going on. He just doesn’t know how to say it. But really no point. You know your wife is not marriage material. Let her go with the ****, Richard what’s his name. Anytime a local dude just happens to be overseas in Italy with one’s wife IN YOUR HOUSE with your son there…. It’s time to part company.


----------



## Marc878

You can retrieve deleted texts off a phone using Fonelab or other software. You need her phone password. 
under the circumstances I’d take it to a professional service. I doubt it would cost that much,


----------



## Lostinthought61

JBLH said:


> I really, for the life of me, cannot understand how she thought she was going to get away with it. It’s a small Italian village, where any and all outsiders are taken account of immediately and people warned. She was either careless or trying to send me a message.


she is/was in a fog and her mind would not accpet that she was being careless


----------



## ABHale

JBLH said:


> Because of two things: 1) she contacted a bunch of our relatives to let them know how much of an a-hole I am for “dumping” her and 2) I find it extremely irritating that she thinks I am naïve enough to believe her horsesh*t excuses, and her attitude indirectly hinting that I signed up for an open marriage because I’m a lesser male. F*** that sh*t!


Then let the entire family know she has been cheating. Also everything you posted here.


----------



## TAMAT

JBLH,

What you wrote reminds me of some of the churches my W belonged to. I think any social organization where there is a strong insider / outsider culture can exhibit some of what you stated below. I think such organizations also foster feelings of superiority.

You wrote..

*Oh, and she also let me see the work emails… lots missing of course but, the impression I get is that her school system is like a cult. They behave like a pack of wolves and they truly genuinely believe they are like a “second family.” They go out together, have bbq parties together, text each other til late, etc. These people LITERALLY live two DISTINCT lives and some of the participants have issues when participants in one of the lives delves in the other life.

I read somewhere that in order for a friendship to make it to a full blown EA, it has to meet 6 out of 10 parameters. Teachers, school psychologists and other administrative staff are ALWAYS at 5 out of 10, so it comes as no surprise that the school departments are riddled with adultery. I mean, I saw emails from a group of MARRIED women talking about how they sometimes invite certain males to their only-girls get-togethers, which my wife piled on about by the way. These ANIMALS feel safe in the little exclusive world they’ve created.*

I was curious about the 10 parameters, I found a list of 9, many of which were also in my Ws churches. What was lacking was a culture approving and encouraging of adultery. 

My W was telling me yesterday about two people in a branch of her church who had an affair when the woman was trying to convert the man. It sounded like, unfortunately, they were getting them to rug sweep and keep things quiet.


----------



## Evinrude58

You should let her rewrite your history and portray you as a beast to all that know you both. 
Or, you could share the facts with the proooe you care about and let them make up their own minds.

I can tell you that nobody with an ounce of common sense would listen to your wife explain merging with her work “friend” Richard in ITALY in YOUR home at NIGHT on MULTIPLE occasions when you were halfway around the globe and not agree that she’s a lying cheat.


----------



## BoSlander

TAMAT said:


> What you wrote reminds me of some of the churches my W belonged to. I think any social organization where there is a strong insider / outsider culture can exhibit some of what you stated below. I think such organizations also foster feelings of superiority.


Very much so. Her school has a very insider/outsider culture. My wife gets queasy when I ask her things about her workplace, she’ll say things like “you know I don’t like to talk about work after work” or “please don’t criticize” such and such. She took working from home due to COVID real hard. Like she started questioning out marriage and how “unsocial” I was (during COVID!!!) and how she wished she had single (THIS comment was the one that woke me up to her delusion). And like I said in a previous post, I went to a wedding where two of her colleagues were getting married and my wife ignored me the whole night and had nothing but condescending remarks toward me. She was behaving completely different from the wife I knew at home. Almost like a teenager with an attitude.

Now I don’t even attend her school’s get-togethers. She goes alone if it’s a lunch or a breakfast and stays home if it’s an after dark event.



> I am curious about the 10 parameters, I found a list of 9, many of which were also in my Ws churches. What was lacking was a culture approving and encouraging of adultery.
> 
> My W was telling me yesterday about two people in a branch of her church who had an affair when the woman was trying to convert the man. It sounded like, unfortunately, they were getting them to rug sweep and keep things quiet.


The 10 parameters I took from a website that listed 10 things that, when put together, point to the likelihood that your spouse is having an affair. Six items or more meant that there was a high probability that the spouse was having an affair. Mine scored 7: lack intimacy, lying, emotionally distant, secretive with phone, strange money withdrawals, repeatedly mentioned a person and actually had a secret meeting with him. It’s like ding ding ding ding ding. Another red flag I observed was her sexual habits: out of the blue, she went from me having to ask for fellatio to her grabbing onto my junk like she was free climbing El Capitán and even humming while at it. She also started doing different postures, not big things, but enough for me to think that something was up (no pun intended).

To think I had a partial mandíbula dislocation from performing so much cunnilingus on her…


----------



## BoSlander

Evinrude58 said:


> You should let her rewrite your history and portray you as a beast to all that know you both.
> Or, you could share the facts with the proooe you care about and let them make up their own minds.
> 
> I can tell you that nobody with an ounce of common sense would listen to your wife explain merging with her work “friend” Richard in ITALY in YOUR home at NIGHT on MULTIPLE occasions when you were halfway around the globe and not agree that she’s a lying cheat.


Wanna know what the old Italian man told me when I mentioned to him that my wife alleged that the men he saw going out of the house late at night were handymen? “Ba fangul!” (which translates to “get the f*** outta here!”).

Let’s be real, Richard went there to f*** my wife. Plain and simple. Initially, like she alleges, maybe she was thinking it was going to be a little flirting, a little company, a kiss here/a kiss there a little “let’s scape to another town and have a blast” BUT I am 100,000,000% sure Richard showed up to f***. And, just as most cheaters do, she succumbed.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> Another red flag I observed was her sexual habits: out of the blue, she went from me having to ask for fellatio to her grabbing onto my junk like she was free climbing El Capitán and even humming while at it. She also started doing different postures, not big things, but enough for me to think that something was up (no pun intended


So the falloff in intimacy you mentioned hasn’t included oral? Or her eagerness to perform oral was before intimacy disappeared?


----------



## Evinrude58

JBLH said:


> Wanna know what the old Italian man told me when I mentioned to him that my wife alleged that the men he saw going out of the house late at night were handymen? “Ba fangul!” (which translates to “get the f*** outta here!”).
> 
> Let’s be real, Richard went there to f*** my wife. Plain and simple. Initially, like she alleges, maybe she was thinking it was going to be a little flirting, a little company, a kiss here/a kiss there a little “let’s scape to another town and have a blast” BUT I am 100,000,000% sure Richard showed up to f***. And, just as most cheaters do, she succumbed.


I’m sorry but “gtfoutahere” lol. She didn’t succumb—- dude she was stalking him. I’ll bet she paid his ticket.
I’m sorry, your wife was as much the predator as he. You are so right to divorce her


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> So the falloff in intimacy you mentioned hasn’t included oral? Or her eagerness to perform oral was before intimacy disappeared?


No, sex-wise we were essentially doing it once a month for many years with ramp ups during times I believe she was engaging in a PA with her ex. Then, back to once a month again for like 2 years. And now, since January of this year, we’ve been at it pretty much 3-4 times per week. AND, lo and behold, the first work email I saw about going out for coffee is from… January of this year.

This latest ramp up is nothing compared to when
I believe she was seeing her ex (I now suspect from September of 2016 to March 2020). The COVID epidemic had a huge impact on my STBEW, but not after a few months of “cabin fever,” she had HUGE blow outs with me after only a few days after we all were told to work from home due to the epidemic. NOW, to me, it’s clear she was suffering from a case of dopamine withdrawal. I mean, you’d think that doing it once or twice a day for 6 months straight would calm her down but, at the time, she was strangely easily irritable and distant in equal measure. Not the sort of attitude one has when you have an extra active sex life.

In hindsight, and after reading through multiple of the threads here, she was doing exactly what every cheater does, at different times during the year and relationship: washing her undies as soon as she came through the door? Check. Changing her phone pin? Check. Turning off the “Find Me” app in her iPhone? Check. Distancing herself from me when in the presence of people from her school? Check. Not wearing her wedding ring? Check. Not sending me any affectionate chats when away from me? Check. Going to the supermarket and “disappearing” for 2 hours? Check.

Too many to count.


----------



## Sfort

JBLH said:


> She also started doing different postures, not big things, but enough for me to think that something was up


At least you're getting SOME (educational) benefit out of her affairs. Seriously, what's next for you?


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> The latter.
> 
> BTW, my congratulations on your good deal on the house in Italy. I sincerely hope you are able to keep it for yourself when the dust settles. Maybe retire to there to get away from all of the drama. I would think financial services work could be done remotely. You could be living the dream with the Peruvian lady, or someone that will treat you just as well.


Not the firm I work for. Non-sales personnel can only remote from countries we have fiscal presence in.


----------



## BoSlander

Sfort said:


> At least you're getting SOME (educational) benefit out of her affairs. Seriously, what's next for you?


Honestly? I’m horny as a rabbit on Spanish Fly. I’m probably going to temporarily “make up,” f*** her brains out as a farewell gift and THEN serve papers.


----------



## Lostinthought61

With her constant denial is she willing to take a polygraph to prove she is not cheating? we both know the answer to that


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> Honestly? I’m horny as a rabbit on Spanish Fly. I’m probably going to temporarily “make up,” f*** her brains out as a farewell gift and THEN serve papers.


Hate to mention this, but arent STIs a concern? I assume pregnancy is of no concern because of her age? 

Has she returned to “work” yet?


----------



## Gabriel

The "hinted we had an open marriage because I'm a lesser male" thing doesn't make any sense to me. If that were the case, she wouldn't be trying to hide it.

But anyway, it's VERY obvious it's beyond time to dump this skank.

And honestly, I'd make sure everyone in the family knew she was sleeping with other men. Don't let her drag you through the mud.

I HATE manipulative, entitled people like this.

Congratulations on blowing up her life.


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> Has she returned to “work” yet?


Not until early September.


----------



## Gabriel

JBLH said:


> Honestly? I’m horny as a rabbit on Spanish Fly. I’m probably going to temporarily “make up,” f*** her brains out as a farewell gift and THEN serve papers.


Up to you obviously....but depending on what you are trying to accomplish in the divorce, this may backfire. I'm not a divorce expert, but I've heard others say that having sex after infidelity can wipe out any arguments or rulings that punish the cheater in a divorce. Maybe that doesn't matter here. Just something to think about.


----------



## sideways

JBLH said:


> Honestly? I’m horny as a rabbit on Spanish Fly. I’m probably going to temporarily “make up,” f*** her brains out as a farewell gift and THEN serve papers.


I know she's screwed you over, but isn't this the same woman that threatened to go into your kitchen and stab herself with a knife? 

She's obviously not a stable person. Why do this? I mean seriously why?


----------



## Gabriel

sideways said:


> I know she's screwed you over, but isn't this the same woman that threatened to go into your kitchen and stab herself with a knife?
> 
> She's obviously not a stable person. Why do this? I mean seriously why?


That was all theater, I presume. 

It happens when entitled, narcissists get told they can't eat cake anymore.


----------



## Divinely Favored

sideways said:


> I know she's screwed you over, but isn't this the same woman that threatened to go into your kitchen and stab herself with a knife?
> 
> She's obviously not a stable person. Why do this? I mean seriously why?


I'd tell her not to bleed on the F'ing carpet.


----------



## BoSlander

sideways said:


> I know she's screwed you over, but isn't this the same woman that threatened to go into your kitchen and stab herself with a knife?
> 
> She's obviously not a stable person. Why do this? I mean seriously why?


That was all an act.


----------



## BoSlander

Gabriel said:


> That was all theater, I presume.
> 
> It happens when entitled, narcissists get told they can't eat cake anymore.


Oh yeah, she put on an Oscar-worthy performance.

I just stood there watching this animal lose it but I do have to say… I was thinking “you don’t have the balls! I dare you!”


----------



## ConanHub

You know, I never did mind, about the little things.....


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> Wanna know what the old Italian man told me when I mentioned to him that my wife alleged that the men he saw going out of the house late at night were handymen? “Ba fangul!” (which translates to “get the f*** outta here!”).
> 
> Let’s be real, Richard went there to f*** my wife. Plain and simple. Initially, like she alleges, maybe she was thinking it was going to be a little flirting, a little company, a kiss here/a kiss there a little “let’s scape to another town and have a blast” BUT I am 100,000,000% sure Richard showed up to f***. And, just as most cheaters do, she succumbed.


Cmon man, Richard went there because he got invited. Wake up already.
I don’t buy the little lost girl in the forest seduced by the big bad man.


----------



## Diana7

TAMAT said:


> JBLH,
> 
> What you wrote reminds me of some of the churches my W belonged to. I think any social organization where there is a strong insider / outsider culture can exhibit some of what you stated below. I think such organizations also foster feelings of superiority.
> 
> You wrote..
> 
> *Oh, and she also let me see the work emails… lots missing of course but, the impression I get is that her school system is like a cult. They behave like a pack of wolves and they truly genuinely believe they are like a “second family.” They go out together, have bbq parties together, text each other til late, etc. These people LITERALLY live two DISTINCT lives and some of the participants have issues when participants in one of the lives delves in the other life.
> 
> I read somewhere that in order for a friendship to make it to a full blown EA, it has to meet 6 out of 10 parameters. Teachers, school psychologists and other administrative staff are ALWAYS at 5 out of 10, so it comes as no surprise that the school departments are riddled with adultery. I mean, I saw emails from a group of MARRIED women talking about how they sometimes invite certain males to their only-girls get-togethers, which my wife piled on about by the way. These ANIMALS feel safe in the little exclusive world they’ve created.*
> 
> I was curious about the 10 parameters, I found a list of 9, many of which were also in my Ws churches. What was lacking was a culture approving and encouraging of adultery.
> 
> My W was telling me yesterday about two people in a branch of her church who had an affair when the woman was trying to convert the man. It sounded like, unfortunately, they were getting them to rug sweep and keep things quiet.


Honestly adultery is never encouraged in churches, ever. We know how very serious it is.


----------



## In Absentia

I know you are hurt, but maybe you could stop referring to your wife as the "animal"? Whatever she's done, it's rather disturbing to read.


----------



## ABHale

In Absentia said:


> I know you are hurt, but maybe you could stop referring to your wife as the "animal"? Whatever she's done, it's rather disturbing to read.


It’s better then some other names. If he called her those names he could be band.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

In Absentia said:


> I know you are hurt, but maybe you could stop referring to your wife as the "animal"? Whatever she's done, it's rather disturbing to read.


A victim of an adulteress should consider YOUR feelings and sensibilities? I find that rather entitled.


----------



## In Absentia

Dictum Veritas said:


> A victim of an adulteress should consider YOUR feelings and sensibilities? I find that rather entitled.


I always try do be decent, even if I'm very hurt. We are different, obviously.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

In Absentia said:


> I always try do be decent, even if I'm very hurt. We are different, obviously.


I guess we define decency differently as well. I don't find victim shaming decent at all, personally.


----------



## In Absentia

Dictum Veritas said:


> I guess we define decency differently as well. I don't find victim shaming decent at all, personally.


Fine by me...


----------



## ElOtro

In Absentia said:


> I know you are hurt, but maybe you could stop referring to your wife as the "animal"? Whatever she's done, it's rather disturbing to read.


Agree but mainly cos most of animals don´t deserve to be put in the same bag as unloyal ones, mostly humans.


----------



## ElOtro

In Absentia said:


> I know you are hurt, but maybe you could stop referring to your wife as the "animal"? Whatever she's done, it's rather disturbing to read.


But besides the above disclaimer, you are near to be right.
Given the "Whatever she's done" he shouldn´t call her names. 
To call her "Ex for the quite enough reasons" should be enough.


----------



## TAMAT

Diana,



Diana7 said:


> Honestly adultery is never encouraged in churches, ever. We know how very serious it is.


They don't as a biblical doctrine, I agree, and I am not arguing in any way that churches are not good institutions.

Some of the group & individual behaviors within a church however do set up conditions for an affair. 

Collectively these do not constitute and affair they just make it more likely.

For example

The sharing of secrets because of the need to confess or give testimony, often it's understood the spouse not present does not know. There may or may not be encouragement to share with their spouse.

When a Wife goes to a church alone. When I realized what was going on at my Ws church and went with her there were tons of orbiters.

The feeling within some churches that they have the truth which creates an insider / outsider culture and can diminish a spouses attachment to their spouse. 

When the amount of time spent on church activities exceeds the amount of time spent with the spouse, same thing for the amount of time spent with church people especially one person who "understands me"

Physical closeness is normal which breaks down the first boundary, why did the young guy at my Ws church have hug and kiss her?

Ask me how I know.


----------



## Evinrude58

TAMAT said:


> Diana,
> 
> 
> 
> They don't as a biblical doctrine, I agree, and I am not arguing in any way that churches are not good institutions.
> 
> Some of the group & individual behaviors within a church however do set up conditions for an affair.
> 
> Collectively these do not constitute and affair they just make it more likely.
> 
> For example
> 
> The sharing of secrets because of the need to confess or give testimony, often it's understood the spouse not present does not know. There may or may not be encouragement to share with their spouse.
> 
> When a Wife goes to a church alone. When I realized what was going on at my Ws church and went with her there were tons of orbiters.
> 
> The feeling within some churches that they have the truth which creates an insider / outsider culture and can diminish a spouses attachment to their spouse.
> 
> When the amount of time spent on church activities exceeds the amount of time spent with the spouse, same thing for the amount of time spent with church people especially one person who "understands me"
> 
> Physical closeness is normal which breaks down the first boundary, why did the young guy at my Ws church have hug and kiss her?
> 
> Ask me how I know.


You are not incorrect.


----------



## Rus47

TAMAT said:


> Physical closeness is normal which breaks down the first boundary, why did the young guy at my Ws church have hug and kiss her?


Wife and I have attended a lot of different protestant churches since our salvation, as we moved from state to state. I have NEVER seen a man kiss a woman other than his wife at any of them. Am surprised the “young man” wasnt chastised by your wife and others for this out of line behavior. Women will often hug one another in greeting. Men shake hands.


----------



## Divinely Favored

TAMAT said:


> Diana,
> 
> 
> 
> They don't as a biblical doctrine, I agree, and I am not arguing in any way that churches are not good institutions.
> 
> Some of the group & individual behaviors within a church however do set up conditions for an affair.
> 
> Collectively these do not constitute and affair they just make it more likely.
> 
> For example
> 
> The sharing of secrets because of the need to confess or give testimony, often it's understood the spouse not present does not know. There may or may not be encouragement to share with their spouse.
> 
> When a Wife goes to a church alone. When I realized what was going on at my Ws church and went with her there were tons of orbiters.
> 
> The feeling within some churches that they have the truth which creates an insider / outsider culture and can diminish a spouses attachment to their spouse.
> 
> When the amount of time spent on church activities exceeds the amount of time spent with the spouse, same thing for the amount of time spent with church people especially one person who "understands me"
> 
> Physical closeness is normal which breaks down the first boundary, why did the young guy at my Ws church have hug and kiss her?
> 
> Ask me how I know.


Makes me wonder what "religion" she is. I am Apostolic Pentacostol. Only hugging is going on between the women. Men and women who are not married/kin hugging is totally inappropriate...hand shakes only. Women wear modest attire, no cleavage or skirts/dresses above the knee. Basically...no looking like a hoochie momma. Men typically wear suits/ties or slacks/button up shirts, or otherwise nice jeans and boots.

I have seen some churches that women dress shamefully, looks like they could leave the church and stop at the night club and fit right in.


----------



## Marc878

Diana7 said:


> Honestly adultery is never encouraged in churches, ever. We know how very serious it is.


Just because someone says they are a Christian doesn’t mean they are. There is nothing worse than a hypocrite. I’ve known a few who put in a good appearance, quote scripture, teach Sunday school, etc but inwardly they are horrible people. The word Christian from what I have seen is loosely used.
Church to some can be a way to stroke their egos making them feel important.
Most people are good and go to church for the right reasons but you always have those outliers that use church for their own selfish reasons.
It’s best to take what people say and tell you with a grain of salt. Actions always tell you more.


----------



## RebuildingMe

In Absentia said:


> I know you are hurt, but maybe you could stop referring to your wife as the "animal"? Whatever she's done, it's rather disturbing to read.


You’re 100% correct. It’s insulting to animals. Not cool.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Marc878 said:


> Just because someone says they are a Christian doesn’t mean they are. There is nothing worse than a hypocrite. I’ve known a few who put in a good appearance, quote scripture, teach Sunday school, etc but inwardly they are horrible people. The word Christian from what I have seen is loosely used.
> Church to some can be a way to stroke their egos making them feel important.
> Most people are good and go to church for the right reasons but you always have those outliers that use church for their own selfish reasons.
> It’s best to take what people say and tell you with a grain of salt. Actions always tell you more.


Exactly. There are many "Christians" that are going to split hell wide open. You can claim to be a Christian every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But if you are not a follower of Christ, you are not a Christian. You will know them by their fruit, what happened to the fig tree that was bearing no fruit for Christ? It withered and died. 

I tell family, when they say they are a member of such and such church, just because your name is on a roster, if you do not show up for the game, you are NOT part of the team. At the end of the game, you will not be getting a trophy, coach does not know who you are.


----------



## masterofmasters

this whole story is ****ed up over some more ****ed up.

from what i gather, she played you like carlos santana playing the guitar on steroids. red flag after red flag that you seemingly chose to ignore.

all you can do now is accept it and move on.


----------



## BoSlander

masterofmasters said:


> this whole story is ****ed up over some more ****ed up.
> 
> from what i gather, she played you like carlos santana playing the guitar on steroids. red flag after red flag that you seemingly chose to ignore.
> 
> all you can do now is accept it and move on.





masterofmasters said:


> this whole story is ****ed up over some more ****ed up.
> 
> from what i gather, she played you like carlos santana playing the guitar on steroids. red flag after red flag that you seemingly chose to ignore.
> 
> all you can do now is accept it and move on.


Yes I did.


----------



## Wolfman1968

JBLH said:


> Honestly? I’m horny as a rabbit on Spanish Fly. I’m probably going to temporarily “make up,” f*** her brains out as a farewell gift and THEN serve papers.


Dude. Don't get her pregnant, whatever you do.


----------



## Gabriel

@JBLH anything new to report?


----------



## BoSlander

Gabriel said:


> @JBLH anything new to report?


I handed her the DPs a few days ago. She took it rather well. Her lawyer is still going through the docs, but it seems as though we’re in agreement on 98% of the stuff.

She asked me if there was any chance of reconciliation and I said “none at all.” She said “I’m sorry” and… I guess this is how this story is supposed to end.

Still cannot understand how this unfolded so quickly but… To think I was a happily married man until 07/22/22…

If I could give some advise to people… do random checks on your partners once a year… show up to work unannounced and take him/her out to lunch, plant a device in the car for a week, etc. It can really save your relationship.


----------



## Rus47

@JBLH Are both of you still living in your home? Are you intimate with her? Does she still see the OM? 

Did she ever provide more information on her escapades? Have you learned any more since returning home?

Doesnt seem she tried very hard to keep you.


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> @JBLH Are both of you still living in your home? Are you intimate with her? Does she still see the OM?
> 
> Did she ever provide more information on her escapades? Have you learned any more since returning home?
> 
> Doesnt seem she tried very hard to keep you.


We will be living in the same house until the divorce is finalized. I am no longer intimate with her and I believe Richard has moved on too.

As far as her providing more information goes, she did try but I was completely disinterested and turned off when she did want to tell me.

As far as me learning more about the affair when I got back… yes, I found out she had a credit card I did not know about (which she probably paid with the $80 she withdrew from out bank account every month,) I also found out she HAD multiple outings with him prior to going on vacation (she had at least one sick day deducted from her check stub every other week, which was the reason she always kept her sick day balance private and was always strangely unwilling to take a sick day even on days when she was sick). Her phone was clean as a whistle, but there was ample evidence that she did delete a lot of texts.

I’m still pondering on whether I should fonelab her old iPhone or not. That phones has to have a treasure trove of information (and I am in possession of it)… meaning information on her previous OM (which I highly suspect she had) and also information on the genesis of her relationship with Richard.


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> @JBLH Are both of you still living in your home? Are you intimate with her? Does she still see the OM?
> 
> Did she ever provide more information on her escapades? Have you learned any more since returning home?
> 
> Doesnt seem she tried very hard to keep you.


We will be living in the same house until the divorce is finalized. I am no longer intimate with her and I believe Richard has moved on too.

As far as her providing more information goes, she did try but I was completely disinterested and turned off when she did want to tell me.

As far as me learning more about the affair when I got back… yes, I found out she had a credit card I did not know about (which she probably paid with the $80 she withdrew from out bank account every month,) I also found out she HAD multiple outings with him prior to going on vacation (she had at least one sick day deducted from her check stub every other week, which was the reason she always kept her sick day balance private and was always strangely unwilling to take a sick day even on days when she was sick). Her phone was clean as a whistle, but there was ample evidence that she did delete a lot of texts.

I’m still pondering on whether I should fonelab her old iPhone or not. That phones has to have a treasure trove of information (and I am in possession of it)… meaning information on her previous OM (which I highly suspect she had) and also information on the genesis of her relationship with Richard.


----------



## Gabriel

JBLH said:


> I handed her the DPs a few days ago. She took it rather well. Her lawyer is still going through the docs, but it seems as though we’re in agreement on 98% of the stuff.
> 
> She asked me if there was any chance of reconciliation and I said “none at all.” She said “I’m sorry” and… I guess this is how this story is supposed to end.
> 
> Still cannot understand how this unfolded so quickly but… To think I was a happily married man until 07/22/22…
> 
> If I could give some advise to people… do random checks on your partners once a year… show up to work unannounced and take him/her out to lunch, plant a device in the car for a week, etc. It can really save your relationship.


She will be sad, eventually. Maybe already is. She blew this up. There are consequences. Hopefully it stays reasonably cordial


----------



## BoSlander

🥹


----------



## truststone

be strong you cant afford to be with someone who has showed you countless times you are her plan B if not plan C.. She will come around and i believe she already knows what she threw away . But its because Richard is not there!!! And if you do not follow through with Divorce she will have recieved no consequences except you have made her realize she has to be more careful next time.. That is not marriage otherwise why be marriade if your partner doesnt have boundaries unless you into that open relationship s**t !! If you stay remeber this you unfortunatley now plan a role in her action becaue you have chosen to enable her .... You are a great guy and the best thing you can do is be strong and never allow anyone to walk over you like this again!! AND yes it diffiucult but this is a perfect oppurtuity to learn to be the man you where created to be !!


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> 🥹


Does your son know divorce is coming? How has he reacted? Have you told your side to your family since she trashed you?

Doesnt Mr Big D still work with STBXW?


----------



## sideways

She got the divorce papers a couple days ago and she already has a lawyer?


----------



## RebuildingMe

sideways said:


> She got the divorce papers a couple days ago and she already has a lawyer?


Not unusual. We both hired lawyers before D was ever filed. Lawyer accepted service so there was no drama with “serving at work”.


----------



## Rus47

sideways said:


> She got the divorce papers a couple days ago and she already has a lawyer?


Most people have a family law attorney they use routinely. A little surprising they both have different attorneys.. It costs nothing (until you ask them to do some work, then it costs plenty).


----------



## sideways

RebuildingMe said:


> Not unusual. We both hired lawyers before D was ever filed. Lawyer accepted service so there was no drama with “serving at work”.


I get that but I can't remember if OP told her he was going to be divorcing her and if he didn't she wouldn't have had any reason to hire a lawyer.


----------



## Rus47

RebuildingMe said:


> Not unusual. We both hired lawyers before D was ever filed. Lawyer accepted service so there was no drama with “serving at work”.


And smart not to disrupt a spouse's workplace. @JBLH wife needs to keep bringing in money to minimize costs to him. I wonder if she earns more than he does? Like maybe she ends up having to pay HIM spousal support? That would be some poetic justice.


----------



## Evinrude58

JBLH said:


> I handed her the DPs a few days ago. She took it rather well. Her lawyer is still going through the docs, but it seems as though we’re in agreement on 98% of the stuff.
> 
> She asked me if there was any chance of reconciliation and I said “none at all.” She said “I’m sorry” and… I guess this is how this story is supposed to end.
> 
> Still cannot understand how this unfolded so quickly but… To think I was a happily married man until 07/22/22…
> 
> If I could give some advise to people… do random checks on your partners once a year… show up to work unannounced and take him/her out to lunch, plant a device in the car for a week, etc. It can really save your relationship.


Just wanted to tell you how sorry I am, but still think you are doing the right thing. Ya know what? If your wife truly loved you, she’d crawl through broken glass, naked, to try to fix this with you. 
She wouldn’t say ““I’m sorry” and… I guess this is how this story is supposed to end.” 
That’s an I don’t gaf statement. 
She does not care.


----------



## *Deidre*

I'm sorry for what you've been through, OP. I read your story when you had first posted it. Hope that things get better for you soon...I think this is one of those tough moments in life that makes a person stronger, but it would be nice to not have to go through such things in order for that to happen. Stay strong. ⭐


----------



## Casual Observer

JBLH said:


> As far as her providing more information goes, she did try but I was completely disinterested and turned off when she did want to tell me.
> 
> As far as me learning more about the affair when I got back… yes, I found out she had a credit card I did not know about (which she probably paid with the $80 she withdrew from out bank account every month,) I also found out she HAD multiple outings with him prior to going on vacation (she had at least one sick day deducted from her check stub every other week, which was the reason she always kept her sick day balance private and was always strangely unwilling to take a sick day even on days when she was sick). Her phone was clean as a whistle, but there was ample evidence that she did delete a lot of texts.
> 
> I’m still pondering on whether I should fonelab her old iPhone or not. That phones has to have a treasure trove of information (and I am in possession of it)… meaning information on her previous OM (which I highly suspect she had) and also information on the genesis of her relationship with Richard.


Interesting that you go from being disinterested when she tried to tell you what had gone on (and at this point motivation for lying is greatly reduced) to talking about forensic work on her old phones. If you truly feel a need to know, just ask her. It would be a lot simpler and be more likely to put this part of your journey to an end. With the phones, you’ll wonder what you’re missing.


----------



## BoSlander

Casual Observer said:


> Interesting that you go from being disinterested when she tried to tell you what had gone on (and at this point motivation for lying is greatly reduced) to talking about forensic work on her old phones. If you truly feel a need to know, just ask her. It would be a lot simpler and be more likely to put this part of your journey to an end. With the phones, you’ll wonder what you’re missing.


Asking her is out of the question. Even with a threat of divorce on the table, MSTBXW was only willing to tell me that she did indeed meet with him but that he only kissed her on the cheek. I’m dealing with someone who, if I go your route, is going to decontextualize and delay the information as much as she can.

I’m dealing with an animal that is 1) extremely stubborn and set in her ways, 2) always passive-aggressive for literally EVERYTHING and 3) a compulsive liar at this point.

I’m getting DNA tests done this week because I don’t trust her anymore.


----------



## BoSlander

sideways said:


> She got the divorce papers a couple days ago and she already has a lawyer?


Well, I did tell her last Wednesday that my intention was to file for divorce. She had almost a week to lawyer up.


----------



## jparistotle

JBLH said:


> Well, I did tell her last Wednesday that my intention was to file for divorce. She had almost a week to lawyer up.


If she is insisting that all they did was kiss on the cheek, how about proposing her taking a polygraph and it will cover the entire relationship to see how much infidelity was going on and what level. That might scare her into the truth. if you care. You need closure or it will eat you alive.


----------



## Gabriel

jparistotle said:


> If she is insisting that all they did was kiss on the cheek, how about proposing her taking a polygraph and it will cover the entire relationship to see how much infidelity was going on and what level. That might scare her into the truth. if you care.  You need closure or it will eat you alive.


I disagree.

First, he'll never get the truth. Well, maybe he'll find out the truth from gossip a year from now when two bitties are whispering too loudly.

Second, she owes him nothing. Why would she do this when there is zero chance of reconciliation? She has absolutely nothing to gain and clearly his well being isn't her concern.


----------



## Evinrude58

There’s no such thing as closure to me. There’s just acceptance. 
cheaters typically NEVER give you the whole truth. Just the fact that the AP was in Italy at his house would be good enough for me to know the truth. He didn’t go to Italy for a kiss on the cheek, and she didn’t invite him there for the same. She and OP know exactly what happened. She’s just not admitting.


----------



## BoSlander

Evinrude58 said:


> There’s no such thing as closure to me. There’s just acceptance.
> cheaters typically NEVER give you the whole truth. Just the fact that the AP was in Italy at his house would be good enough for me to know the truth. He didn’t go to Italy for a kiss on the cheek, and she didn’t invite him there for the same. She and OP know exactly what happened. She’s just not admitting.


That is exactly my point… if the threat of divorce only got her to kind of open up a little bit, enough to make me believe that she did not cheat, why should I believe me continuing to demand she tell me the whole truth is going to get her to change her mind?

I don’t want to give her ANY control. I asked her to tell me everything or else and she failed. She was literally warned of what was going to happen.


----------



## BoSlander

Gabriel said:


> First, he'll never get the truth. Well, maybe he'll find out the truth from gossip a year from now when two bitties are whispering too loudly.


Funny thing is I need no gossip, I can connect the dots myself. So much so that I’ve been able to find out things merely by sheer deduction. Like I know for a fact that she once saw this guy after going hiking with a bunch of (female) friends. How do I know? Because I happen to play soccer with one of the guys and I found out at the time that all the wives were back home while mine was hanging out with a coworker. I didn’t make anything out of the meeting, at the time, but, in hindsight, I should’ve seen it for what it was. I checked the texts and she never said anything about her meeting other people. Which also brings another thing into question AFAIC, how much did the other wives know about what was going on?


----------



## Gabriel

JBLH said:


> Funny thing is I need no gossip, I can connect the dots myself. So much so that I’ve been able to find out things merely by sheer deduction. Like I know for a fact that she once saw this guy after going hiking with a bunch of (female) friends. How do I know? Because I happen to play soccer with one of the guys and I found out at the time that all the wives were back home while mine was hanging out with a coworker. I didn’t make anything out of the meeting, at the time, but, in hindsight, I should’ve seen it for what it was. I checked the texts and she never said anything about her meeting other people. Which also brings another thing into question AFAIC, how much did the other wives know about what was going on?


You don't need the gossip. 

But it's gonna happen. This is already a group of women who love to simp about men and get in everybody's business. Naughty behavior is fun for people like this.

Thing is, once you are divorced, the juice won't be as sweet because it will no longer be forbidden. So it'll be really gossipy in their group for a short time, then fizzle out.


----------



## Sfort

If there is ever any desire for reconciliation on your part, you should make it conditional on her passing a polygraph test. No, they're not 100% reliable, but they're probably 75% or so. They seem to be pretty accurate on affairs as they are such emotional events. At this point, based on what I've read, you have not unequivocally established that she did the full nasty with Richard or anyone else. I'd want to confirm that, if possible, if my divorce were based on that truth.


----------



## Casual Observer

JBLH said:


> That is exactly my point… if the threat of divorce only got her to kind of open up a little bit, enough to make me believe that she did not cheat, why should I believe me continuing to demand she tell me the whole truth is going to get her to change her mind?
> 
> I don’t want to give her ANY control. I asked her to tell me everything or else and she failed. She was literally warned of what was going to happen.


That’s at least twice you’ve mentioned the “threat” of divorce. Were you/are you still leaving room for a response that would have changed your mind about leaving? I ask because elsewhere it has seemed you were 100% all-in for leaving, mind made up, nothing could possibly change your mind.


----------



## BoSlander

Casual Observer said:


> That’s at least twice you’ve mentioned the “threat” of divorce. Were you/are you still leaving room for a response that would have changed your mind about leaving? I ask because elsewhere it has seemed you were 100% all-in for leaving, mind made up, nothing could possibly change your mind.


That’s because I suspected that about 7 years ago she cheated on me with her ex boyfriend. Back then, I had no idea about EA or PA or the circumstances preceding or during the events. In hindsight, EVERYTHING checks out to her having had an affair with the guy. I kind of pushed it aside and forgot about it but this latest “stunt” was too much.

I made the decision as soon as she told me in the car that Richard had come to pay her a visit.


----------



## Gabriel

JBLH said:


> I made the decision as soon as she told me in the car that Richard had come to pay her a visit.


That is exactly when I would have made that decision. I mean, it might be the biggest Red Flag I've ever seen.


----------



## SRCSRC

Does Richard have a wife or significant other? Will you be notifying her of your discovery? Also, I believe you mentioned a polygraph exam for your WW some time back. What happened in that regard? Did she balk to the exam?


----------



## BoSlander

SRCSRC said:


> Does Richard have a wife or significant other? Will you be notifying her of your discovery? Also, I believe you mentioned a polygraph exam for your WW some time back. What happened in that regard? Did she balk to the exam?


Richard is single and has moved on, as I expected. From what I heard, my ex took it pretty bad. It’s odd and humiliating at the same time seeing the mother of your child and wife being so infatuated with someone else.


----------



## SRCSRC

JBLH said:


> Richard is single and has moved on, as I expected. From what I heard, my ex took it pretty bad. It’s odd and humiliating at the same time seeing the mother of your child and wife being so infatuated with someone else.


Hang in there. I went through this crap twice. The first time I had her take a polygraph to determine if there were other affairs. She passed, but six years later she cheated again. I didn't bother with a polygraph that time. While I was so pissed, I was also relieved so that I could dump the skank once and for all. It's been decades and the thought of her still makes me want to puke. My son was three at the time so unfortunately I had to deal with her for many years after the divorce.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> Richard is single and has moved on, as I expected. From what I heard, my ex took it pretty bad. It’s odd and humiliating at the same time seeing the mother of your child and wife being so infatuated with someone else.


I am confused. Here are some previous posts:



Rus47 said:


> Yes that is indeed what STBXW told OP. A wealthy real estate magnate living in $3MM house needs to work at a school for health insurance?





JBLH said:


> My understanding is that he’s got 3 kids and the wife only works in the real estate business. Wouldn’t be surprised he’s just renting the place but the hous IS valued at 3MM.





Rus47 said:


> Wait!?! The OM is Married? And it is his WIFE who is the real estate magnate? And you STBXW knew from her research that he was married? Wow.





JBLH said:


> Yup. Got wind of her knowing when I read an exchange between my wife and another female friend in which they were discussing how beautiful she is and what good taste in clothes she has.


So is the OM named Richard? Is he married with three kids or single?


----------



## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> I am confused. Here are some previous posts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is the OM named Richard? Is he married with three kids or single?


Sorry, by “single” I meant he’s no longer seeing my wife. The dude is STILL married, as far as I know. My bad.

The one who is indeed single is her ex boyfriend, who seems to have dumped her, so far, twice. THIS is the cheating I suspect took place about 7 years ago (I’ll refer to the guy as “Jack”.)

I wonder if Richard’s wife found out… Should I contact her?


----------



## sideways

"Should I contact her"?

HELL YES!!!

She deserves to know.


----------



## Rus47

JBLH said:


> Sorry, by “single” I meant he’s no longer seeing my wife. The dude is STILL married, as far as I know. My bad.
> 
> The one who is indeed single is her ex boyfriend, who seems to have dumped her, so far, twice. THIS is the cheating I suspect took place about 7 years ago (I’ll refer to the guy as “Jack”.)
> 
> I wonder if Richard’s wife found out… Should I contact her?


You don't need any drama. Leave Richard and Jack and Richard's wife alone. Just focus on getting your task done and move on with your life.

Usually the advice is to have a discussion with your attorney about do and don't list. Only do what he/she tells you to do and don't do anything he/she tells you not to do. Is your state an at fault state? Does the law care if wife was cheating on you for years ( or ten minutes )? Ask your attorney.

Focus


----------



## Evinrude58

It would be pretty easy to call her and ask if she knew Richard was in Italy for such abd such dates and that your wife had him over for multiple visits and admitted he kissed her there. And yes, I’d do it. Why should he get to bang your wife and you can’t dish out the slightest retribution?.


----------



## Rus47

Evinrude58 said:


> It would be pretty easy to call her and ask if she knew Richard was in Italy for such abd such dates and that your wife had him over for multiple visits and admitted he kissed her there. And yes, I’d do it. Why should he get to bang your wife and you can’t dish out the slightest retribution?.


He can. But what good does that do OP? And what are the potential downsides for him? It is just another complication he doesn't need. And, I will bet if he asks his attorney about this the answer will be "Leave Richard and Jack and Richard's wife alone". The KISS concept applies IMO. 

I would contend OP's STBXW was the instigator and Richard hit the target on offer. Just move on with life, that is the best "revenge".


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> We will be living in the same house until the divorce is finalized. I am no longer intimate with her and I believe Richard has moved on too.
> 
> As far as her providing more information goes, she did try but I was completely disinterested and turned off when she did want to tell me.
> 
> As far as me learning more about the affair when I got back… yes, I found out she had a credit card I did not know about (which she probably paid with the $80 she withdrew from out bank account every month,) I also found out she HAD multiple outings with him prior to going on vacation (she had at least one sick day deducted from her check stub every other week, which was the reason she always kept her sick day balance private and was always strangely unwilling to take a sick day even on days when she was sick). Her phone was clean as a whistle, but there was ample evidence that she did delete a lot of texts.
> 
> I’m still pondering on whether I should fonelab her old iPhone or not. That phones has to have a treasure trove of information (and I am in possession of it)… meaning information on her previous OM (which I highly suspect she had) and also information on the genesis of her relationship with Richard.


The credit card was probably for hotel rooms. At this point you only know the tip of the Iceberg. Pain shopping won’t get you much.
You were happily married because you like most were too trusting and in the dark.
No contact will be your new best friend.


----------



## Casual Observer

Rus47 said:


> You don't need any drama. Leave Richard and Jack and Richard's wife alone. Just focus on getting your task done and move on with your life.
> 
> Usually the advice is to have a discussion with your attorney about do and don't list. Only do what he/she tells you to do and don't do anything he/she tells you not to do. Is your state an at fault state? Does the law care if wife was cheating on you for years ( or ten minutes )? Ask your attorney.
> 
> Focus


I disagree. How would you feel if somebody could have told you about an ongoing, or even a past affair your wife or husband had or was having, and they didn't. Wouldn't that information be valuable to you? Why is it not valuable to the innocent people whose marriages were violated by OP's wife? 

I would start by asking the STBX if she knew if the other wives became aware that she was cheating with their husbands. And I admit that would be partly out of wanting her to realize how many lives she'd wrecked, not just OP's.


----------



## Lostinthought61

JBLH said:


> Sorry, by “single” I meant he’s no longer seeing my wife. The dude is STILL married, as far as I know. My bad.
> 
> The one who is indeed single is her ex boyfriend, who seems to have dumped her, so far, twice. THIS is the cheating I suspect took place about 7 years ago (I’ll refer to the guy as “Jack”.)
> 
> I wonder if Richard’s wife found out… Should I contact her?


Why the hell should he get away with no impact. Definitely rat him out.


----------



## jparistotle

JBLH said:


> Sorry, by “single” I meant he’s no longer seeing my wife. The dude is STILL married, as far as I know. My bad.
> 
> The one who is indeed single is her ex boyfriend, who seems to have dumped her, so far, twice. THIS is the cheating I suspect took place about 7 years ago (I’ll refer to the guy as “Jack”.)
> 
> I wonder if Richard’s wife found out… Should I contact her?


YESSSSS


----------



## Marc878

Lostinthought61 said:


> Why the hell should he get away with no impact. Definitely rat him out.


He should inform the other betrayed spouse. Waiting to get the divorce signed first may not be a bad idea.
It’s the humane thing to do. You don’t know what she maybe going through. I’m sure it’s not pleasant.


----------



## truststone

Gabriel said:


> You don't need the gossip.
> 
> But it's gonna happen. This is already a group of women who love to simp about men and get in everybody's business. Naughty behavior is fun for people like this.
> 
> Thing is, once you are divorced, the juice won't be as sweet because it will no longer be forbidden. So it'll be really gossipy in their group for a short time, then fizzle out.


atleast then he wont be with her !! And everyone will know thats why he left !!!


----------



## truststone

JBLH said:


> That’s because I suspected that about 7 years ago she cheated on me with her ex boyfriend. Back then, I had no idea about EA or PA or the circumstances preceding or during the events. In hindsight, EVERYTHING checks out to her having had an affair with the guy. I kind of pushed it aside and forgot about it but this latest “stunt” was too much.
> 
> I made the decision as soon as she told me in the car that Richard had come to pay her a visit.


Good for you !!! you see things clearer and your acting keep it up !!! Be strong !!


----------



## truststone

JBLH said:


> Richard is single and has moved on, as I expected. From what I heard, my ex took it pretty bad. It’s odd and humiliating at the same time seeing the mother of your child and wife being so infatuated with someone else.


even if you where doubting that reaction is all you need!!


----------



## truststone

JBLH said:


> Sorry, by “single” I meant he’s no longer seeing my wife. The dude is STILL married, as far as I know. My bad.
> 
> The one who is indeed single is her ex boyfriend, who seems to have dumped her, so far, twice. THIS is the cheating I suspect took place about 7 years ago (I’ll refer to the guy as “Jack”.)
> 
> I wonder if Richard’s wife found out… Should I contact her?


You must contact her !!! the question is why woudnt you tell her ?? she might also have some insight into th ewhole situation ? if you where in her shoes would you want to know ?? it also serves as another consequence to your exW that she needs to be dealt !!! Also have you exposed her to her family cant remember if you did ?


----------



## BoSlander

Update: Contacted her last night about custodial innuendo… The animal still insists she didn’t, doesn’t and will not ever have any feelings for Richard. Why, and what, on God’s Good Earth, would possess a person to so blatantly lie and keep lying even when she’s been found out? What is triggered in them to completely abandon any and all semblance of reality? I mean… I LITERALLY saw it in front of my very eyes!

Also, a friend of mine also corroborated that some of the females she was going out hiking with suspected something was going on because one of the girls saw them making out in a nearby park prior to going hiking. Apparently, the husband told her to mind her b-ness. So much for male alliance…


----------



## Marc878

Cmon man, cheaters all lie a lot. She’s not going to tell you a damn thing. She doesn’t have to.
If you learn nothing else learn that.
You are wasting your time.


----------



## Marc878

She’s played you for years. It’s always worked. Why would she change? She’s a cake eater who wants to eat more cake.


----------



## truststone

JBLH said:


> Update: Contacted her last night about custodial innuendo… The animal still insists she didn’t, doesn’t and will not ever have any feelings for Richard. Why, and what, on God’s Good Earth, would possess a person to so blatantly lie and keep lying even when she’s been found out? What is triggered in them to completely abandon any and all semblance of reality? I mean… I LITERALLY saw it in front of my very eyes!
> 
> Also, a friend of mine also corroborated that some of the females she was going out hiking with suspected something was going on because one of the girls saw them making out in a nearby park prior to going hiking. Apparently, the husband told her to mind her b-ness. So much for male alliance…


because she has gotten away with no cosequences she thinks of you as weak.. ANd why would she tell you the truth !!! Sh ewas able to do it infrot of other people and noone told you so she continued to get bold with Richard and who know who esle in your house .. let that sink in for a minute..

The problem is your still demonstarting weakness and there is no threat to her because you havent really done anything even though you now know!! So in her mind why confess? that is why
1) file serve divorce papers - that you have and stand firm on it 
2) Tell her family & yours ASAP
3) Expose to all
- the OW , work etc get my drift
4) in the best way possible explain to your teen what is going on 
- remember you are also teaching them what to accept or not by your actions 
5) Stop and i mean stop asking her about anything start showing your a man by your actions so you can be respected !!
6) 180 NC is a must and all communication via lawyer or someone esle that you and you lawyer have agreed on 
7) follow your lawyers advice to a tee
8) read the above again and act now ... no more waiting around and demonstrating weakness 
9) if you do the above you will stop being the joke in all this because everyone already thinks so 

if you must find out more find out from other peeple not your lying exSTBW
- this will also trickle out when you expose !!

Good luck and stop acing like your scared .. 

dont mean to be rude but you need to move forward already and keep being strong 

have you contacted the OW yet ???


----------



## MattMatt

@JBLH Are these people on online hiking forums, Facebook pages, etc?

If they knew there was cheating occurring in their group, then their group is 'marriage and relationship hostile' and needs to be exposed on social media groups in the hiking world.

Don't name names, because not naming names will point the finger of suspicion at them all as a warning to everyone and revenge for not taking action.


----------



## CountryMike

With the content from posts, it's hard to believe you haven't told her to move out and live her chosen life.


----------



## Lostinthought61

JBLH said:


> Update: Contacted her last night about custodial innuendo… The animal still insists she didn’t, doesn’t and will not ever have any feelings for Richard. Why, and what, on God’s Good Earth, would possess a person to so blatantly lie and keep lying even when she’s been found out? What is triggered in them to completely abandon any and all semblance of reality? I mean… I LITERALLY saw it in front of my very eyes!
> 
> Also, a friend of mine also corroborated that some of the females she was going out hiking with suspected something was going on because one of the girls saw them making out in a nearby park prior to going hiking. Apparently, the husband told her to mind her b-ness. So much for male alliance…





JBLH said:


> Update: Contacted her last night about custodial innuendo… The animal still insists she didn’t, doesn’t and will not ever have any feelings for Richard. Why, and what, on God’s Good Earth, would possess a person to so blatantly lie and keep lying even when she’s been found out? What is triggered in them to completely abandon any and all semblance of reality? I mean… I LITERALLY saw it in front of my very eyes!
> 
> Also, a friend of mine also corroborated that some of the females she was going out hiking with suspected something was going on because one of the girls saw them making out in a nearby park prior to going hiking. Apparently, the husband told her to mind her b-ness. So much for male alliance…



This is what is going on in her mind, she honestly thought that she had fooled you and everyone else, that on some level she thought she was the smartest person in the room, clever to the point of brushing her affair under your nose and the nose of others. But now she realizes that she made a mistake and is now sitting there trying to spin this in a way that will provide the least damage for her....if you will her self-preservation mode has kicked in and so she as going about to figure out an answer that will convince you that what you saw and read you did not read, the problem is that she is not very technologically savvy, and the bread crumbs that the both of them have dropped paints a picture that she can not escape. Even her co-workers will not stand by her now….i suspect that if you asked to take a polygraph to save your marriage she would probably think in the back of her mind she could get away with it….no right now she will not and can not let go of the truth because she would have to accept that is flawed and that can not happen in her mind…she is yet to see rock bottom.


----------



## Works

I will never understand a cheaters mentality... the intricacies, the hiding, the lying... and they almost always think they will not get caught... 🤦


----------



## Marc878

Works said:


> I will never understand a cheaters mentality... the intricacies, the hiding, the lying... and they almost always think they will not get caught... 🤦


You can never rationalize the irrational. It’s a huge waste of time and effort.


----------



## Works

Marc878 said:


> You can never rationalize the irrational. It’s a huge waste of time and effort.


That is so true! Will now always keep that in mind!


----------



## Gabriel

1) stop asking your STBX for information
2) tell Richard's wife
3) move the divorce proceedings along
4) go to work, love your son.

That's all you need to do.


----------



## BoSlander

truststone said:


> because she has gotten away with no cosequences she thinks of you as weak.. ANd why would she tell you the truth !!! Sh ewas able to do it infrot of other people and noone told you so she continued to get bold with Richard and who know who esle in your house .. let that sink in for a minute..
> 
> The problem is your still demonstarting weakness and there is no threat to her because you havent really done anything even though you now know!! So in her mind why confess? that is why
> 1) file serve divorce papers - that you have and stand firm on it
> 2) Tell her family & yours ASAP
> 3) Expose to all
> - the OW , work etc get my drift
> 4) in the best way possible explain to your teen what is going on
> - remember you are also teaching them what to accept or not by your actions
> 5) Stop and i mean stop asking her about anything start showing your a man by your actions so you can be respected !!
> 6) 180 NC is a must and all communication via lawyer or someone esle that you and you lawyer have agreed on
> 7) follow your lawyers advice to a tee
> 8) read the above again and act now ... no more waiting around and demonstrating weakness
> 9) if you do the above you will stop being the joke in all this because everyone already thinks so
> 
> if you must find out more find out from other peeple not your lying exSTBW
> - this will also trickle out when you expose !!
> 
> Good luck and stop acing like your scared ..
> 
> dont mean to be rude but you need to move forward already and keep being strong
> 
> have you contacted the OW yet ???


Not yet.

Look, I completely agree with you on everything you say but…in my book, animalistic instincts do not trump morality or ethical standards. EVERYONE deserves respect, whether you feel a person is x or y.

Hence my dilemma. I’ve always felt she was weak and could’ve essentially beaten the white off of her teeth but never laid a hand on her because 1) I know it’s WRONG and 2) I know I would be penalized for it.


----------



## whammyface

Bud... tell your son the truth and blast her affair and the infidelity culture of all the employees on the school's Facebook page


----------



## whammyface

And you should have already told his wife


----------



## truststone

JBLH said:


> Not yet.
> 
> Look, I completely agree with you on everything you say but…in my book, animalistic instincts do not trump morality or ethical standards. EVERYONE deserves respect, whether you feel a person is x or y.
> 
> Hence my dilemma. I’ve always felt she was weak and could’ve essentially beaten the white off of her teeth but never laid a hand on her because 1) I know it’s WRONG and 2) I know I would be penalized for it.


as you said @JBLH *EVERYONE deserves respect, whether you feel a person is x or y. *That includes YOU !!!!!!!
and that is why exposing it is crucial everyone including the OW deserves to know!!

How are you demonstrating respect for yourself ??


----------



## Gabriel

whammyface said:


> Bud... *blast her affair and the infidelity culture of all the employees on the school's Facebook page*


No. Do not do this. Richard's wife should know. But doing a blast will hurt their son. 

Imagine everyone knowing his mom was a cheater, including his friends and all the bullies at school.

Terrible idea.


----------



## MattMatt

The kids probably already know.


----------



## syhoybenden

Works said:


> I will never understand a cheaters mentality... the intricacies, the hiding, the lying... and they almost always think they will not get caught... 🤦


In agreement, however, sadly though, most of the time most of them do not get caught.

In this forum we simply have a window into those of them that do get caught or for some reason spill the beans.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Let me make this extremely simple. She is a cheater. Secondly, you are in a state of fear or analysis paralysis...scared to act. @truststone gave you solid advice. I was in your shoes seven years ago(damn time flies). Once I had my FWW busted, and I confronted her...BAM!
Exposure! Exposed to my late parents, my kids, my siblings, her siblings, close friends. I then changed my status on Facebook, noted my FWW had a boyfriend named the POS. Guess what? It was not all unicorns and rainbows any more. Knocked FWW out of fantasy land.

I will recommend Exposure not be on Facebook. That is the one thing I wish I had not done, but it is. We reconciled, and have had to change parishes as my FWW was poorly treated by some women at our former parish. Looking back this was my extreme anger taking over logic and common sense.

If you do not expose, you will find she will spin the situation to paint you in a negative light.

Consider reading “Grow a Pair” by Larry Winget.

Good luck.


----------



## Marc878

Limbo is a self inflected state. You will accomplish nothing keeping yourself in this.


----------



## SRCSRC

Unless I missed something, OP has already filed for divorce and WW has been served. Now it is time for him to start healing. He should tell the OBS and others. But I assume he will do this in due time. What he must do now is listen to the advice of his attorney.


----------



## sideways

Why does she continue to lie even though she's been busted? One word....Pride.

Please tell Richard's wife. She deserves to know the truth just as you deserved to know the truth. You not telling her makes you an accomplice (just like the people who saw your wife kissing him while hiking and said nothing to you).


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

@JBLH 

Reach out to Richard's wife and tell her what happened. Do not be one of those who see cheating but fail to do the right thing.


----------



## Diana7

Rus47 said:


> Wife and I have attended a lot of different protestant churches since our salvation, as we moved from state to state. I have NEVER seen a man kiss a woman other than his wife at any of them. Am surprised the “young man” wasnt chastised by your wife and others for this out of line behavior. Women will often hug one another in greeting. Men shake hands.


Yup.


----------



## Diana7

Rus47 said:


> He can. But what good does that do OP? And what are the potential downsides for him? It is just another complication he doesn't need. And, I will bet if he asks his attorney about this the answer will be "Leave Richard and Jack and Richard's wife alone". The KISS concept applies IMO.
> 
> I would contend OP's STBXW was the instigator and Richard hit the target on offer. Just move on with life, that is the best "revenge".


It's the decent thing to do for the OM's wife to tell her.


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## TooOld

First if I am violating any rules or protocols, I apologize. Just tonight over on SI in the JFO forum a post was made with almost the same starting facts. Member registered there today, their first post. A post there references this thread. Not sure what to make of this.


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## SRCSRC

Jimi007 said:


> Like I said before...It is my opinion that this entire thread was BS...It does not surprise me that it is now posted in many forums . I'm actually shocked that many here took it hook line. And sinker.


Just read the SI post. Looks like you are right. In this post, WW has already been served with divorce papers while in the SI post things haven't reached that point. But everything else seems to match.


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## In Absentia

Jimi007 said:


> Like I said before...It is my opinion that this entire thread was BS...It does not surprise me that it is now posted in many forums . I'm actually shocked that many here took it hook line. And sinker.


well, it did stink a lot...


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## sideways

Mods should lock this thread so as to not let JBLH waste anyone's time here (as he's done for 28 pgs now). Let him waste people's time on SI as Papi.


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## Dictum Veritas

Okay benefit of the doubt (Devil's Advocate) time. If I were, oh let's say OP's wife and I wanted to discredit him, I would happily post a story so similar, yet "subtly" and by implication painting this one as a lie on a parallel board.

If this thread is true, the SI one is false and since posted later might be a malicious instrument.

I choose to advise from the assumption of truth, even if this is a lie, someone in future would still benefit from truthful advice.

Let's just say that I have seen plenty of life and sometimes some of it is so out of the norm that if told would make people in general think the narrator is a liar and yes, there sure is a preponderance of such elements present.

Still, my personal judgement aside. What's the worse that could happen to me? Someone can call me naïve for believing what someone else wrote or assuming truth in-spite of signs to the contrary? Or someone can say: "Well. he was fooled, but that was some good advice he gave none the less"?

I am aware that some will say: "I'm not taking his advice, look how he was fooled there."

Well, if my default assumption of truth is to discredit my advice, the person rejecting it was not ready to receive it yet.

Giving someone the benefit of the doubt here is no skin of my nose if it means people get to benefit from some insight. Policing the veracity of a poster is the job of the Mods, not me.


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## Dictum Veritas

balbichi said:


> benefit of doubt or not...I think he got enough advice on how to navigate this(assuming he's not a troll). Lets lock this thread. Lets see what he does on SI. SI has become vegetable anyways. No one likes to hear the truth over there anymore. Lets see how long he manages to troll people over there.


That's again up to the Mods. This is just a platform where I have a voice, I didn't stake territory here in need of defense from other voices. I don't have a dog in that fight.

Report what you think and move on.


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## TooOld

There are new posts from the OP on SI and the OP seems to acknowledge the connection, sort of, yet defends posting different "facts" for anonymity sake. No acknowledgement of 28 pages of advice and discussion, nor does the post reflect where things stand after all of the "reveals" and confrontations with his wife. This is a new twist for me.


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## Megaforce

Bogus, pretty easy to spot. This was pointed out long ago.


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## sideways

"And once a decision has been reached as to how to proceed, they will check with different sources to ensure they made the right decision"


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## Wolfman1968

JBLH said:


> Update: Contacted her last night about custodial innuendo… The animal still insists she didn’t, doesn’t and will not ever have any feelings for Richard. Why, and what, on God’s Good Earth, would possess a person to so blatantly lie and keep lying even when she’s been found out? What is triggered in them to completely abandon any and all semblance of reality? I mean… I LITERALLY saw it in front of my very eyes!
> 
> Also, a friend of mine also corroborated that some of the females she was going out hiking with suspected something was going on because one of the girls saw them making out in a nearby park prior to going hiking. Apparently, the husband told her to mind her b-ness. So much for male alliance…


She's in deny mode. Deny, deny, deny.

Like this:

Deny, deny, deny


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## Gabriel

When he was posting helpful stuff on other people's threads, I felt he was legit.

The saying Richard was single and then, wait, just single with my wife....that was sus.


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## Openminded

So what’s the story?


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## RebuildingMe

Openminded said:


> So what’s the story?


Strange he so active on everything but his own thread.


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## Kamstel2

Just checking in on you. How are you doing?


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## TinyTbone

So whatbis the posts on si under?


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## Buzzkill

What is SI?


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## Mr.Married

Call Richards wife and tell her you thought she should know your stbx has HIV ….. 😳


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## Jimi007

Buzzkill said:


> What is SI?


Surviving infidelity forum


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## MattMatt

*Moderator Warning:- *Calling a member out as a troll is against the rules. 
Posting Guidelines - Forum Rules (2022) 
Rule 2 states very clearly "2. Do not call out suspected trolls on the open forum. If you believe a story is made up and/or a poster is a troll, do not call them out on the open forum. Instead report the thread to the moderators using the report button and explain that you think they are a troll. The moderators will make the determination and ban any user who is trolling the site."

Members shouting "troll!" can cause tremendous ill feeling. Don't do it. As Rule 2 says: "report the thread to the moderators using the report button" that's all you need to do.


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## DontBelieveSquat

I love this stuff. These "By golly, the STRANGEST thing happened totally not on purpose!" things. Talk about what are the odds! 

It's funny, I feel like I'm going through the same thing right now. Maybe not as bad as yours, but I'm sticking around this thread, if nothing else, too see what I should be watching for.


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## Rus47

@BoSlander: Can you summarize how this all turned out so far? Have the impression from your other threads that you found out your wife was way more active with others than you ever suspected. 

Guessing since the first post was early August of 2022 that your divorce isn't yet finalized? In other threads you mentioned that wife is living with her parents? 

When will asset division, custody division, child and spousal support be decided?


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## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> @BoSlander: Can you summarize how this all turned out so far? Have the impression from your other threads that you found out your wife was way more active with others than you ever suspected.
> 
> Guessing since the first post was early August of 2022 that your divorce isn't yet finalized? In other threads you mentioned that wife is living with her parents?
> 
> When will asset division, custody division, child and spousal support be decided?


Not much has happened. Papers were served but.. her house of cards of a life came crashing down and she's still at her in laws trying to recoup. I need her to get better and go back to work because her short term disability is going to run out soon so I'm keeping mute and being cooperative with her medical reality (which my lawyer says will be looked at favorably by the courts). My plan is to STFU, let her go back to work and then force the issue. I really do not mind waiting because I've already moved on, emotionally. My kid, not so much, but he's getting help.

If she's still depressed by February, I'll disclose all the information I have to her in laws so that they know the caliber of "human being" they're dealing with. They'll most likely throw her out immediately.


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## Rus47

BoSlander said:


> she's still at her in laws


Are her "in-laws" your blood relatives? And is there a separation agreement in place filed by your attorney? Does your son spend part-time with her?


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## BoSlander

Rus47 said:


> Are her "in-laws" your blood relatives? And is there a separation agreement in place filed by your attorney? Does your son spend part-time with her?


No, they're not. Yes, the separation agreement is in place (although he called it differently due to the medical condition and the fact that I was unable to take care of her, I had to go to work). My son sees her once or twice per week, and he says he thinks she's just acting.


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