# Nearly 8 years and 2 kids...I want out.



## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

For about a year I've been considering divorcing my wife of nearly 8 years. Our relationship has never been great. We are great friends, but horrible lovers/spouses. We do things together, travel, talk about life/politics/news/etc with no problem. But out marriage and love life seem to be on autopilot. We started dating in college (approx. 15 years ago) after I "rescued" her from her boyfriend at the time who didn't respect her. Mistake #1. After about a year we started living together out of convenience (both needed a roommate).

We lived together for a couple years before getting engaged. Looking back we got engaged primarily because she was pressuring me to get her a ring since all of our friends were doing the same. Mistake #2. We were engaged for just over a year before we were married.

I have always done more work in the relationship. Cleaning up around the house, doing laundry, taking care of the kids/pets (we have 2 of each)...basically doing whatever needs to be done. Until I threatened to leave she basically sat around and let me do almost everything. She would sit on the couch and watch reruns on TV while I worked the night away after a full day at my job. When our kids were born she experienced post-partum depression, which meant I went from doing most of the work to all of the work. I did whatever I could to make life easier for her. She sought treatment, got better for awhile and then slipped back to the depression.

Our sex life has never been good. We waited until we were married and it's just never been good. Mistake #3. She never initiated, never participated in foreplay and just laid there while I did the deed. Until I threatened to leave her she was never willing to try anything except plain vanilla sex. We have discussed this many times over the years with no change.

She constantly needs reassurance that she is doing the right thing...being a good person. She stresses out over fitting in, her job, her friends, her family, everything... I never have had the same support, or much of any support. No loving hugs at random times. Little notes or texts saying she's thinking of me. Everything seems to be a routine and there for convenience. My wife suffers from both post-partum depression, imposter syndrome and major self esteem issues.

Imposter syndrome prevents my wife from accepting that she is successful, beautiful...basically any good achievements. Everything is passed off as necessary (compliments), luck (successes), deceiving (being good at her job, a good mother, etc.).

Many of the problems with our marriage are directly due to these mental illnesses. The problem I have is that any issue that I bring up is immediately written off as "due to my depression/self esteem/imposter syndrome". I'm starting to feel like I'm the bad guy because of this. I basically gave up my own happiness to support my wife. "In sickness and health, in good times and bad..." is thrown in my face pretty regularly.

About 8 months ago I got fed up and told her I was considering divorce and laid out all of the issues. Her not doing her fair share of work, horrible sex, lack of love in the relationship, feeling like I was just there to take care of everyone else. We started going to therapy (which hasn't helped our marriage at all...she is seeing the therapist for her depression on the side) and she has made changes, but I still am not happy. There are numerous things she does that drive me insane. She leaves lights on, and then complains that our electric bill is high. She never cleans up after herself...use a cup? Just leave it wherever you finish with it. Use a tissue in the middle of the night? Just drop it on the floor next to the bed. Trash can full? Just keep adding more trash to it.

We barely touch each other at this point. For 8 years we had the obligatory good morning, good bye, good night kisses and hugs. I have no urge to touch her now let alone kiss her. I do have some love for her that I know will never go away. She is the mother of my children and I will always be thankful for her being a great pregnant woman.

I am emotionally drained at this point. I feel like I can't talk to her. I don't know what to do at this point. I truly want to leave her. She blames everything on her depression and says she has changed and everything at this point is my fault. I don't see how we can ever be happy. I don't want to spend the rest of my life unhappy, doing everything I can to support my wife. But I am starting to feel bad for feeling this way, because it's not 100% her choice to act this way. She truly is sick. At the same time, the illnesses can't be consuming her totally, she has to still have some decision making ability. I worry what will happen if I leave her. I worry that she will totally decompensate and end up worse than she is...if I sleep in the spare bed, she refuses to sleep in "our" bed and moves to the couch. I then feel bad that she slept on the couch. The past year has totally wrecked me emotionally and I'm not sure how much more I can take myself.


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## botti (May 28, 2014)

My question is, what were you thinking on your wedding day? Not like "omg, what were you thinking?!" but truly, what were the thoughts running through your mind on your wedding day?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So you lived together for a couple of years before getting married, but didn't have sex? Was there a reason for that?

Besides feeling guilty about leaving her in a depressed state, what other reasons are there for you to stay?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

botti said:


> My question is, what were you thinking on your wedding day? Not like "omg, what were you thinking?!" but truly, what were the thoughts running through your mind on your wedding day?


It's difficult for me to say with 100% certainty 8 years later when I am currently doubting my marriage and unhappy with my life, but...

I was happy on my wedding day. I felt that my wife and I got each other like no one else could. I knew that she had some flaws, but I knew that I also had some flaws and thought that we could work through them together. Support each other, come out stronger on the other end.

Over the past 8 years she has gone downhill and I have done everything in my power to make her life easier to allow her to heal. I thought if I did all I could for her that she would have the time, energy and motivation to rebuild. Instead all I have done is burn myself out, lose friends, get more and more frustrated and questioning. I ask myself almost every day if this is what I signed up for. Is this what the rest of my life is really going to be like. Truthfully there has not been any...any...improvement over the past 8 years.


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

PBear said:


> So you lived together for a couple of years before getting married, but didn't have sex? Was there a reason for that?
> 
> Besides feeling guilty about leaving her in a depressed state, what other reasons are there for you to stay?
> 
> ...


We didn't have sex because she did not want to due to her faith. I had other relationship that included sex prior to our relationship starting. She only dated the guy I "rescued" her from and one other guy in high school.

My main reason for staying is for my kids. They are and will always be my first priority in life. I don't want them to grow up in a loveless household (I reference my wife's parents for a windows into that world), but at the same time I worry what divorce will do to them in the long run. I honestly can't think of another reason to stay, but I'm sure a lot of that is due to the frustration and burn out I am currently dealing with.

As I said above, I do still have feelings for my wife. Those feelings aren't love and desire, but more respect for being a mother through all of this. I am not attracted to my wife and have little desire to spend time with her. I summed it up at the therapist as, we are great friend and parents, but horrible lovers and spouses.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

My goodness, you sound like Long Done. May I ask how old you are? Is there another woman or possibly another woman?


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Is she on a treatment plan for her depression?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

I will be 32 next week. There is not another woman, though I can't say the thought hasn't crossed my mind the the last year. I want a wife that is happy to be around me and shows me in little ways that she loves me. I don't currently and have not for as long as I can remember had that.

I was a subscriber to the, till death do us part, mentality. I told myself many times over the years that I promised no matter what to stick by her. I just find it incredibly hard to look at the future and consider the possibility that I will be unhappy for the rest of my life if I stay where I am. I know that marriage (and life) has its ups and downs, but I have felt that I have been down and heading deeper for a long time. I don't expect the honeymoon bliss all the time or the happiness I see on TV, but I do expect a little pizzazz once in awhile.

I know my posts make it seem like this is all about me...I need to be happy, why am I doing all the work, etc. I really see this more as, my kids deserve a father who is happy, and a marriage filled with love and happiness.


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

mablenc said:


> Is she on a treatment plan for her depression?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is on medication (which she has stopped/started multiple times) and is seeing our marriage counselor herself on and off again. I am happy that she is getting treatment and I do see a (very) small improvement. What annoys me is that EVERYTHING is blamed on the mental illness(es).


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Then the counseling may not be working, part of a good counseling plan is to take control over situations and stop blaming. Also, a treatment plan should be with the goal of not needing medication. 

It is also a very bad idea to stop and start medication. Let her doctor know so you know what signs to look for when she does it.

Remind her that antidepressants numb you, they don't fix or may you feel happy. 

Consider getting her another doctor and counser if you don't see progress in a year. You should see gradual progress in months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Nothin but love for you, man. I could have written this myself (most of it).


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Also, if she doesn't work consider it as an option. When you are busy you have less time to mope around. There's also a need for self fulfillment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You seem to have made an honest effort, but is it the best you can do? I would know that I did everything in my power. My wife is leaving me because she wants other men, anyone but me basically. She did not work as hard as you at anything but her own selfish life. Good luck either way.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

By the way, in not saying stay or leave, only you can make that choice. Because you have children with her and well she's your wife, you should encourage her to get better either way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

randomtiger said:


> Over the past 8 years she has gone downhill and I have done everything in my power to make her life easier to allow her to heal. I thought if I did all I could for her that she would have the time, energy and motivation to rebuild.


This is likely at the root of a lot of the issues you are having. You are taking over her personal responsibility and then wonder why she isn't doing what she should. She isn't, because she doesn't have to. Stop doing for her what she should be doing for herself.
Talk to her about in sickness and in health and let her know that her not taking care of her health is unacceptable and her not meeting her personal obligations is unacceptable. Let her know that you are no longer going to do her chores and accept responsibility for her issues. She is capable of doing that herself and needs to start meeting her personal obligations.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This is really just my opinion & based on my personal experience.

I have been married for 30+ years and love my husband. I wouldn't want to turn the clock back and change anything in the marriage regard.

What I can say, however, is that having children changes how the time passes in your life. It feels like one day you are 32 and the next you are being hounded by AARP. I wouldn't want to spend those years raising children with the cloying unhappiness and dissatisfaction that you describe. Life is simply too short. And, as I said, in my experience the children make it feel even shorter.

You are young. Your kids would survive a divorce. You still have lots of time to make a life with a woman who fulfills you. Don't wake up one day and look in the mirror at an old man who has settled for a life that he knew long ago wasn't the best one for him. 

My H has two good friends who made the jump at around your age. They remarried very happily. It's possible.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Having your children live in a home having to bear witness to a loveless marriage between their parents and a miserable father, is NOT healthy. You are doing them no favors. Is this where you want to be 20 years from now?? Give yourself permission to let it end. Give yourself permission to find happiness. Your wife will have to step up and take care of things herself once you are out of the picture, so you would be doing her a kindness, in a weird way.


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

Thank you all for your input. The variety of opinions and helpful input is greatly appreciated. I'm sure you can all tell that I have been struggling with this decision for a long time. Whatever decision I end up making I have to live with that for the rest of my life...I know that's why making the "final" decision is taking so long.



CynthiaDe said:


> This is likely at the root of a lot of the issues you are having. You are taking over her personal responsibility and then wonder why she isn't doing what she should. She isn't, because she doesn't have to. Stop doing for her what she should be doing for herself.
> Talk to her about in sickness and in health and let her know that her not taking care of her health is unacceptable and her not meeting her personal obligations is unacceptable. Let her know that you are no longer going to do her chores and accept responsibility for her issues. She is capable of doing that herself and needs to start meeting her personal obligations.


This is a great point, and something I think I realized too late. I basically started doing everything for her which let her stop doing everything. By the time I brought up divorce she didn't see me doing everything as a problem. She has since changed and started doing some work around the house and says she is happy to be helping. 

But in the back of my head I am always thinking she is only doing it to keep me, knowing if she stops I'm walking. That frustrates me more than doing all the work myself. I want her to be happy to be married to me, to be happy to be contributing to the marriage, not doing everything as an obligation. She also has only made small changes to matter to her or the family as a whole, nothing for just the two of us or just me. All of the "big" things, in my opinion, she blames on the mental illness and says she has changed for me and if it's not enough then it's my problem and/or I'm being unrealistic.



alte Dame said:


> What I can say, however, is that having children changes how the time passes in your life. It feels like one day you are 32 and the next you are being hounded by AARP. I wouldn't want to spend those years raising children with the cloying unhappiness and dissatisfaction that you describe. Life is simply too short. And, as I said, in my experience the children make it feel even shorter.
> 
> You are young. Your kids would survive a divorce. You still have lots of time to make a life with a woman who fulfills you. Don't wake up one day and look in the mirror at an old man who has settled for a life that he knew long ago wasn't the best one for him.
> 
> My H has two good friends who made the jump at around your age. They remarried very happily. It's possible.


I have been leaning this way lately. Life is too short to be unhappy all the time. There are lots of people who are genuinely happy with each other and aren't faking it. I want to be with someone who is happy to have me and I am happy to have them. Someone who will always find small ways to show their love.



3Xnocharm said:


> Having your children live in a home having to bear witness to a loveless marriage between their parents and a miserable father, is NOT healthy. You are doing them no favors. Is this where you want to be 20 years from now?? Give yourself permission to let it end. Give yourself permission to find happiness. Your wife will have to step up and take care of things herself once you are out of the picture, so you would be doing her a kindness, in a weird way.


This is my biggest fear. I don't want my children to grow up in a loveless marriage. My wife and I have always done our best to shield them from our problems, but I know we cannot hide it 100% and they will (probably are) pick up on it. I want to show my kids what true love looks like. I want them to have a happy father, one who is not putting on a fascade over unhappiness and pain for them.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

Random Tiger ~
I am beginning to understand you more and more. You have actually helped me see where my stbxh was coming from. I do have a question. How would you feel if your wife said to you, "I understand your unhappiness and I think it's best if we divorce?"
Thanks ~
VH


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## struggle (May 13, 2013)

I understand your POV. One thing to take into account with relationships and marriage is that although we can make little changes to ourselves, and our SO's can make little changes as well, the core of the person is always there. The way they are, their values, the way they live and the way they think. 

When we try to make up for things we feel they are 'lacking' in, thinking we're helping and picking up slack (surely it's not forever??), it becomes the norm. And it's almost always no turning back....the precedence has been set.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Time to pull the plug on this marriage. You do not have the right feelings for your wife.

Don't make the mistake I made, staying in a dead marriage FAR too long (20 years) "for the kids."

Time to pack up, move along. There is a better life ahead for all of you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

randomtiger,

What would your wife say are your major flaws? What about you does she complain about?


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

VeryHurt said:


> How would you feel if your wife said to you, "I understand your unhappiness and I think it's best if we divorce?"


To be honest, I would be thankful because then the decision would be made. I have struggled with this for over a year...do I stay or do I go? There have been many times where I was absolutely positive I wanted to end it. Then there were times where I've felt selfish for wanting to give up.

She had said once or twice in the past few months that if I want out she won't try to make me stay. She's turned around from that and asked what else she needs to do to fix things, only to turn again and say she has changed and the problems are mine at this point.



EleGirl said:


> What would your wife say are your major flaws? What about you does she complain about?


She has never pointed out major flaws. She said I do somethings that annoy her (when I brought up a list of things she does/does not do) but she overlooks them because they're not a big deal. Every time I bring up major flaws with the relationship she disagrees that the problem (in my opinion) is actually a problem.

Unrelated to the topics above, I went to a concert with my wife on Friday night. I had been looking forward to this show for months, and actually considering asking her if I could go alone to avoid spending the evening with her. When we arrived at the venue she was already in a bad mood from her day at work. I talked with her a little bit before the show started, but I avoided engaging her negative attitude. 

Once the show started she kept bringing up what went wrong for her, and I ended up starting to ignore her and focus on the show. I was there to have a good time and I wasn't going to let her ruin that. She ended up storming off about 3/4 of the way through the show and came back at the end. We rode home in silence and then she asked why I ignored her. I explained that I had been looking forward to the show for months and I wasn't going to let her ruin it with her negative attitude. She had no response.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

randomtiger said:


> She had said once or twice in the past few months that if I want out she won't try to make me stay. She's turned around from that and asked what else she needs to do to fix things, *only to turn again and say she has changed and the problems are mine at this point.
> *
> She has never pointed out major flaws. She said I do somethings that annoy her (when I brought up a list of things she does/does not do) but she overlooks them because they're not a big deal. E*very time I bring up major flaws with the relationship she disagrees that the problem (in my opinion) is actually a problem.*


She has her head buried firmly in the sand. She isnt going to change. The sooner you face this fact, the sooner you can move on.


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

It hit me today...I am subconsciously avoiding spending time with my wife. I had an event on Sunday and ended up staying there as long as possible, even volunteering to do things to stay longer, because I was having fun. I was happy to be out on my own doing something I enjoyed without having to put up a fascade of happiness for her.

For the past few weeks I've been coming home from work and keeping myself busy with house chores or finding a quiet spot to read or surf the web...never sitting down with my wife or actively seeing her company. Sometimes I have been doing this on purpose, but mostly it's just happening. I don't ever look forward to going home because I know she's there. I haven't looked forward to doing anything with her for months.

I've been feeling more and more confident about leaving her. I'm just not sure how I'm going to afford to do so. We both have well paying jobs, but we racked up quite a bit of credit card debt early on in our marriage and we've been fighting to pay that down. Unfortunately for me, there's a personal loan in my name, and only my name, where we consolidated the debt a little over a year ago. We also bought a house right on the edge (if not slightly outside) of our means (around 6 years ago), which means I can't pay the mortgage on my own. I'm prepared to get an apartment, but even that looks tight when I add in half the daycare costs, utilities, gas, groceries, etc.

In addition to the stress of paying for the divorce, my wife is also good friends with my sisters. Mind you, they both live hundreds of miles away so I don't have to worry about them spending time together, but I do worry about them maintaining contact during and after the divorce.

I've brought the idea of divorce up to my parents a couple times over the past year, and they have been supportive of my struggle but have also urged me to "keep working on it for the kids." I know that they will support me as best they can (if?) when I divorce.

Sorry if this seems like a whiny rant...I needed to get this stuff off my chest and it seemed most appropriate to drop it here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

randomtiger said:


> She has never pointed out major flaws. She said I do somethings that annoy her (when I brought up a list of things she does/does not do) but she overlooks them because they're not a big deal. Every time I bring up major flaws with the relationship she disagrees that the problem (in my opinion) is actually a problem.
> 
> Unrelated to the topics above, I went to a concert with my wife on Friday night. I had been looking forward to this show for months, and actually considering asking her if I could go alone to avoid spending the evening with her. When we arrived at the venue she was already in a bad mood from her day at work. I talked with her a little bit before the show started, but I avoided engaging her negative attitude.
> 
> Once the show started she kept bringing up what went wrong for her, and I ended up starting to ignore her and focus on the show. I was there to have a good time and I wasn't going to let her ruin that. She ended up storming off about 3/4 of the way through the show and came back at the end. We rode home in silence and then she asked why I ignored her. I explained that I had been looking forward to the show for months and I wasn't going to let her ruin it with her negative attitude. She had no response.


So what was she saying went wrong for her?


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> So what was she saying went wrong for her?


She had a bad day at work (like 99% of her other days at work). Her coworkers annoyed her. She got stuck in traffic on the way home. She felt rushed getting ready for the show. I didn't tell her she looked beautiful on the way to the show. There were drunk people all around us on the lawn. I didn't pick a fight when the drunk guy spilled beer on me. I didn't promise her that everything would be okay and that we were done with this rough patch.

Among many other things...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

randomtiger said:


> She had a bad day at work (like 99% of her other days at work). Her coworkers annoyed her. She got stuck in traffic on the way home. She felt rushed getting ready for the show. I didn't tell her she looked beautiful on the way to the show. There were drunk people all around us on the lawn. I didn't pick a fight when the drunk guy spilled beer on me. I didn't promise her that everything would be okay and that we were done with this rough patch.
> 
> Among many other things...


Keep telling her that you want her to change her attitude. With an attitude like that, no wonder she has problems at work. 
Since you cannot really afford to move out, there are things you can do to start working on being happy and connecting well with your children and detaching from her drama and still be happy with your life. She is not your whole life.


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

The wife and I had a long talk last night and it just reinforced my thoughts that our views of our relationship are very different. She continues to come off as not seeing any major issues.

We spent a good amount of time talking about intimacy and sex. We were in a routine of kissing first thing in the morning, any time we left the house without the other, any time we returned and right before bed. That was it as far as intimacy went. We VERY rarely hugged, kissed, cuddled, etc. outside of the "obligatory" times. Sex has been abysmal since day 1. Part of that is I'm her first and she was brought up that sex was only used for baby making. Part of it is that we don't fit together well. We have talked numerous times during our marriage about what each of us would like to try and I've made numerous suggestions for things she could do to make me happy.

When we actually had sex it was always the same. Foreplay with me focusing on her receiving little if anything in return. Then she'd lay there like a dead fish for the actual intercourse. It was always late at night right before we went to bed. No matter what I tried, we could never break out of that rut. I tried in the shower, she said never again because she didn't like it. I tried elsewhere in the house and she said it was uncomfortable and she didn't enjoy it.

We also spent time talking about our life in general. We established a very safe routine and rarely did anything different. Monday-Friday we got up and went to work, came home to play with the kids for a little bit, ate dinner and went to bed. Saturday and Sunday were either spent laying around the house or doing the same things over and over with our kids (park, zoo, museum, playing outside).

Throughout the entire conversation she kept asking for specific things she can do to "fix everything and go back to the way we were." I told her I can't spend the rest of my life giving her instructions of do A, then B, and C.

I'm not looking for all sunshine and rainbows. I realize that there will be quiet days, and bad days, and just days. I want someone who values me. Someone who wants to do things to make me happy, not because they feel obligated or have been asked to.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

randomtiger said:


> I'm not looking for all sunshine and rainbows. I realize that there will be quiet days, and bad days, and just days. I want someone who values me. Someone who wants to do things to make me happy, not because they feel obligated or have been asked to.


This doesn't make sense to me. She is doing it to make you happy. How does she know what you want if you don't ask? She cannot read your mind and her priorities are different than yours, so you asking and her doing what you asked is normal. It seems like you have some idea that there is a perfect marriage where people just know what makes the other person happy. In 30 years of marriage, I have certainly not found that to be true and I don't see it happening around me either. People are not mind readers. If you tell you wife of your needs and desires and she does it, then you complain that you don't like to tell her and she's doing it out of obligation. Somehow I think your wife could not possible please you and if that's the case, you might want to reconsider if you can ever be happy with that kind of attitude.


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> People are not mind readers. If you tell you wife of your needs and desires and she does it, then you complain that you don't like to tell her and she's doing it out of obligation. Somehow I think your wife could not possible please you and if that's the case, you might want to reconsider if you can ever be happy with that kind of attitude.


I have told her many times in the past what I want from her. Over the past 8 years we have had many conversations where I have asked her to be more intimate, more involved in the relationship, and to do specific things for me. None of that has happened.

Now that I'm considering leaving she wants me to specifically tell her what I want all the time. Something along the lines of...when home from work I'd like a hug and kiss. Make sure you grab my butt and whisper something seductive in my ear to tease me. After the kids have gone to bed take me by the hand and...

I don't want and shouldn't have to do that if we are both in this relationship. I don't ask her what to do, I just do things and based on the response I get from her I either do them again or stop doing them. I get that she's not "experienced" in relationships/intimacy/sex...but you'd think that after 8 years of marriage and nearly 14 years of knowing me she'd have at least some trial and error under her belt and some knowledge gained from numerous conversations.

I view her asking for specific instructions as laziness. Maybe I'm wrong, or jaded from being frustrated so long. But in my opinion I shouldn't have to hold her hand every step along the way. I totally understand that she can't read my mind, but I also haven't sat silent for the entire time she's known me. I've made it extremely clear what I want and like over time.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Have you explained that to her also? If so, what was her response?


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> Have you explained that to her also? If so, what was her response?


I have told her many times that we have discussed these same issues multiple times in the past. She doesn't offer any reason for why I should believe her now based on past experiences. I really get the feeling that we have two totally different set of expectations and beliefs of what is important in a relationship and what we hope to get out of it.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I recommend you read His Needs, Her Needs together. His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage Fifteenth Anniversary Edition: Willard F. Harley Jr.: 9780800717889: Amazon.com: Books
Don't give up on your wife. She obviously wants to be with you and is trying to do what you want, but somehow there is a disconnect.


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## CJ.Love (Jun 8, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CJ.Love (Jun 8, 2014)

Your situation and marriage sound eerily similar to mine. Throw in a hyper-driven career personality for your spouse into the mix and we could almost be mirror images. 

Sex (or lack thereof) is the core issue we face, as is general compatibility. I find myself subconsciously avoiding her also - trips to the store, chores, work events, etc. I haven't really had this phenomenon with any prior girl I've dated which makes it even stranger.

What you have done that I have yet to do is have these "heart to heart" talks. Kudos to you for putting it out there and having the confidence to express your feelings. Sadly, I feel as if my wife's responses would be similar to your wife's - aka "what can I do? What specifically do you want?" And right now a big part of me doesn't know that, but has a hard time believing that whatever it is I want can be fulfilled by my current partner. Yeah - totally unclear, and not exactly fair to the other person. But the feelings are true and raw and deep so impossible to ignore.

I wish you luck and know how hard it is given that children are involved. Divorce is very rough on kids, as it is on the parents. But you must be ultimately happy too, in order to be the best dad possible for them and live and love the life you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

CJ.Love said:


> Your situation and marriage sound eerily similar to mine. Throw in a hyper-driven career personality for your spouse into the mix and we could almost be mirror images.
> 
> Sex (or lack thereof) is the core issue we face, as is general compatibility. I find myself subconsciously avoiding her also - trips to the store, chores, work events, etc. I haven't really had this phenomenon with any prior girl I've dated which makes it even stranger.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your support. I want to say that I'm happy to hear that someone else is in a similar situation, but it's definitely not something to be happy about.

I can't see myself asking my wife to do specific things to keep the marriage together for the rest of my life. Maybe that makes me a bad person, but I know I can't do that. I just imagine being in the middle of having sex and needing to direct the her with specific things to do...talk about a mood killer.

I also agree that it is difficult for me to specify what I want from her. What I want right this second may be different than what I want tomorrow at the same time. It's all about knowing each other and having a connection. I haven't felt a connection for a long time. I also know exactly what you are saying about uncertainty that my wants can be fulfilled by my wife. I don't know if, and certainly don't think right now, she will ever be able to fully satisfy my needs (my wants are a whole different story) because we just don't have that connection that is a requirement for providing happiness to each other.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

This disconnect that you are having can happen with anyone, not matter how great it is in the beginning. The idea is to learn how to foster connection. Does she feel connected to you? You might want to talk to her about that and find how how to reconnect. It is usually better to correct the situation one is in than to go looking for a new one. Second marriages are more likely to fail than first marriages, so your chances of getting a better deal the next time are even less than they were with her.
You used to be connected to her. You had enough connection to marry her. You can rekindle that connection, but it will take an effort on your part. I know you said you've already made an effort, but if you are working hard at doing something that doesn't make a difference, then you have wasted your effort. Try doing some reading and learning to find out how relationships work and what you can do to make yours work.


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

Last night added more fuel to the fire. She called and said she had a flat tire. I had just started making dinner for everyone and the kids had just received their post-school/pre-dinner snack. I stopped what I was doing, rounded up the kids and drove to change the tire for her about 20 minutes away.

I arrived and she had emptied the trunk enough to get the spare and tools out and had started loosening the lug nuts. I took over and had the tire changed in about 5 minutes. For my efforts I got an emotionless "thanks" and then told that I could go home.

I went home and started making dinner again. I had a meeting to go to and all of this meant I would not have time to eat the dinner I was making before I needed to leave. She arrived home right when I absolutely needed to leave so we passed each other in the driveway.

I came home after my meeting to no food leftover and a passive-aggressive wife. Apparently she was put off that I left so quickly when she got home and after her "bad" day she had to take care of the kids. Really?!? I dropped everything I was doing to come help you, missed the beginning of my meeting, and now have to make a 2nd dinner for myself and you're the one that gets to be grumpy? And we're supposed to be working this out? Any shred of motivation I had is gone.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> This disconnect that you are having can happen with anyone, not matter how great it is in the beginning. The idea is to learn how to foster connection. Does she feel connected to you? You might want to talk to her about that and find how how to reconnect. It is usually better to correct the situation one is in than to go looking for a new one. Second marriages are more likely to fail than first marriages, so your chances of getting a better deal the next time are even less than they were with her.
> You used to be connected to her. You had enough connection to marry her.* You can rekindle that connection, but it will take an effort on your part. I know you said you've already made an effort, but if you are working hard at doing something that doesn't make a difference, then you have wasted your effort. Try doing some reading and learning to find out how relationships work and what you can do to make yours work.*


You know what, no matter how many different ways you beat a dead horse, it doesnt change the fact that the horse is, indeed, DEAD. 

RandomTiger, stop making efforts for her and start the 180. You need to get out of this miserable marriage.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

randomtiger said:


> I came home after my meeting to no food leftover and a passive-aggressive wife. Apparently she was put off that I left so quickly when she got home and after her "bad" day she had to take care of the kids. Really?!? I dropped everything I was doing to come help you, missed the beginning of my meeting, and now have to make a 2nd dinner for myself and you're the one that gets to be grumpy? And we're supposed to be working this out? Any shred of motivation I had is gone.


Did you tell her that? And did you tell her she was selfish to treat you that way and you don't appreciate it?
Do you have roadside assistance? If not, I would get it and tell her that next time she has a problem like that she is to call roadside assistance, because you are not going to be treated like that anymore. If you don't set a boundary, anything goes.


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## randomtiger (Jun 20, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> Did you tell her that? And did you tell her she was selfish to treat you that way and you don't appreciate it?
> Do you have roadside assistance? If not, I would get it and tell her that next time she has a problem like that she is to call roadside assistance, because you are not going to be treated like that anymore. If you don't set a boundary, anything goes.


I did talk to her about it. She apologized after I called her out on it. We talked about the usual issues, sex, intimacy, attitude, housework...I didn't feel any progress.

Today is my birthday. She (and my kids by way of her) got me two presents. One is something I actually wanted. The other, while pretty cool, is something I probably won't use much...kind of missed the mark, but I think my anger is coming into play here. I heard a song on the radio that pretty much sums up how I feel in one sentence...I want, make that NEED, to feel wanted. I haven't felt wanted for many years. I've been treated more like a roommate or an obligation for years because she felt comfortable and didn't expect me to leave. Honestly I woke up around 3am, unable to sleep, and was hoping that my birthday present would be divorce papers. Happy birthday to me. :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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