# Why me? Oh yeah...Mr Nice Guy



## IDsrvBetr

Our bio to start. I am 50, wife will be 50 in September. We raised a total of 9 children. 6 daughters and 3 boys. 5 mine, 2 hers, my nephew. His mother died when he was 7, my bro, although an okay guy, lousy parent. We got legal guardianship when he was 13. And one other boy. Youngest just turned 21(mine) oldest is 32(hers). 7 awesome grandchildren. We met in 2002 and it seemed impossibly perfect. You can imagine blending that family together. It had it’s fair share of problems and we almost gave up in 2006 but we succeeded. 9 children all raised to be responsible, upstanding adults in their own right. No addictions, no hangups, no trouble with the law. Two do their own work along with her in her studio (it’s not a salon because it’s by appt only) 4 work for me, one soon-to-be-lawyer, one architect, one wife of a Navy officer (go blue) and one works for the Army.

I was married for 16 years prior. She turned out BPD and that was a hell-on-wheels time. My present wife got pregnant when she was in high school and married young. That lasted 7 yrs. Single for 5 yrs then remarried. Her previous husband died in 2001 of liver failure after 7 yrs. 

So,back to my story. I don’t know how brief I can make it (not at all) but here it goes. Many details along the way that really tell the story but first I am going to just try a reader’s digest timeline of latest events. 

The last two of our kids in college graduated this year. We attended our daughter’s ceremony on May 10th. On May 11th my wife went to neighboring town to do some stuff and when she came back it just instantly got weird. We were discussing ways to produce a product she came up with and I fabricated some prototypes. All of a sudden she just exploded on me. It was just so strange. Ten days of horrible silence and cold follow. She is now sleeping in a bedroom on the other side of the house. On May 22nd she demands I move out and I do (my biggest regret) At the time I thought I had to. That night I turn on my camera on my desk in our bedroom. Not your typical bedroom, it’s a 900 sf suite I built on the other side of the house before we were married and has our home offices, sitting area and sleeping area. I’m sure my actions and reasons are very common in this forum so I’m not going to bother explaining the whys. I did not expect anything, I just missed her. 7 pm she is sitting at the dining room table, gets a phone call and hurredly goes out on to the deck. 730ish I pick her up coming into the bedroom still talking. I can here a male voice on the other end and the conversation seems odd. They talked for about an hour. I am shaken but still don’t believe it. An hour later she is on the phone again. 9-10:30 this time. She is laying on the bed just chatting away about all kinds of things. The next phone call is a very graphic video phone call that just destroyed me. My wife was cheating on me. 

I was obsessed and in overdrive. By 7 am I realized that she had been cheating on me since April 4th. It was not just a casual thing either. You all talk about warning signs, well there really weren’t many in my case. It blew me away how good she is at deception and lies. Up until May 11 her actions around me and everyone else were picture perfect. I correlated our activities, texts and communications with her contacts with him at the same time and it was scary how she acted so perfect and normal towards me at the same time she was communicating and carrying on with this guy. I drove to our oldest daughter’s house (her daughter), walked in the door and asked her if she knew about this. Told her what I found, and left. She said she knew nothing. Her and I are actually very close and she is completely disgusted with her mother. I found out she did a similar thing to her previous husband the year prior to his dying. My oldest daughter is my right-hand-man in my company so there was no way I could keep it from her so she knew everything. Other than that I refrained from letting any of the other kids in on anything until this last Sunday, July 26th. You all know the nightmare that followed for me. I found a good therapist who really helped make it not so disastrous for me.

On Sunday, June 7th I finally took the first step towards finding me again. I was out at daughter’s in-laws water skiing and actually enjoying the day. Got back to the dock about three and guess who is texting me. She wants to talk. I tell her I can’t right now I am busy but I will get ahold of her when I get back to the shop. Meet up with her that evening. We meet at her studio where she breaks down crying. She had a problem with her camper that weekend while going on an outing with her club and she realized the only person she wanted to call for help was me. Deep emotional talk ensues and then sex. I am moving back home the next day to try to work on things. (my 2nd biggest regret, how I handled that). I set boundaries, she plows them over, I try to talk about us, she says no way, she has to fix herself first. Sex is nothing close to normal. She is normally hands-on and very involved. Now it’s like she initiates it by saying “I want you to **** me” and just lays there. No interaction and no reciprocation at all. Some nights she breaks down into self-denigrating talk about what a horrible wife and person she is, how she is just empty and has no feelings towards me or anything else, calling herself a **** and a failure etc. She is “going” to counselling and I don’t pry but from what I glean they are focusing on her childhood and codependency. Strikes me as odd and rather disturbing. You’d think a therapist would work on stablizing before delving into deeper issues but this wasn’t the case. Pretty sure now that she had her therapist fooled just like the rest of us. I tried to be patient and let her have her space to sort things out. I am a patient man, I can put us on hold.

By this time I have found out who this guy is from his burn phone but she doesn’t know. I have all of his personal info and both his cell numbers. The only “reassurance” she would give me about the OM is not to worry, he’s not in our circle and I will never meet him. July 4th we go to the river to spend the day at her friend’s place. Having a great and relaxing time and OM shows up. I look at her sitting there looking at both of us and see nothing in her expression or demeanor. I wonder what kind of a person could do that to their spouse and show absolutely no emotion about it. The following Sunday we get the grandkids and go to church like we always do, go to breakfast after and take the kids home. We go home and she says she is going to help her friend move out of her house. (her divorce just signed and she had to go). Two hours after she goes she texts me telling me she wants a divorce. I see a FB post with pictures of their moving party and, yes, the OM was there also. She is now completely immersed in this crowd of “friends” now who don’t have a stable relationship among them. Always alcohol, parties, drama and anything else to cover up their otherwise empty pathetic lives and she is all in with it now.

I move out the next day and back into my shop. (I wish I knew at the time I didn’t have to leave)I am coming to terms with my future and trying to get through it. Talking to leadership at the church when I need to as well as very easy communication with my therapist. 
So many actions I regret in all of this. Always finding out too late that I did things completely wrong and wondering what the outcome may have been if I had read or talked to someone about it prior to doing it. In retrospect, my biggest regret was leaving the house. I wish I had talked to an attorney prior to doing that. It really hurts thinking how my present situation would be had I done that. My second regret was how I handled the “reconciliation”. My therapist tells me to stop thinking about it because, based on what he knows of the situation, it probably would have resulted in the same outcome. I know he is right but you know how we obsess on the woulda-coulda-shoulda’s in life. 

I know it is unhealthy for me to dwell on those things and I have to move forward with the reality I have now but it is so hard. 
I’m just going to post what I have here for now because half of you probably stopped reading an hour ago. Anyways...Hi All!!


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## IDsrvBetr

I'm sorry that is so long...and that is only a part of the pertinent details


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## Dyokemm

Expose the A to all friends, both your families, and the kids (they are old enough).

Make sure everyone knows EXACTLY who this POSOM is.....I honestly don't know how you avoided confronting when he showed up at the river.

If he has a burner phone, I would assume he is M.

Blow this POSOM's life up by exposing him to his BW and family.

Then file for D and refuse to discuss anything with her except D proceedings and absolute necessities with kids.

Make sure she knows you WILL NOT be her friend after all of this.


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## Thound

Well, you don't have to be a nice guy any longer. Time to go scorched earth on her sorry azz.


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## happy as a clam

Is there any reason why you can't return to your marital home? Has she changed the locks?

By law, you should be allowed to remain until your home until the divorce is settled. It sounds like it's plenty big enough for both of you to be there and occupy separate spaces. With any luck she will get sick of that arrangement and SHE will leave.

Talk to an attorney pronto about your rights.


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## OldWolf57

Move back into YOUR house and nuke her and him.
Get a VAR and keep it on you at all times.

You don't have to tell her sht, just get your sons to help you move back in.
By now they know what's going on, so never mind about protecting them.
Show YOUR kids how to stand up for yourself.


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## southernsurf

Start taking back the power by moving back in and putting her stuff on the front yard. Then 180 move your money get a lawyer and DO NOT look back. I had a lunatic just like you. This sounds like BPD. If true get out


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## OldWolf57

There's a thread on SI by a guy named copingwithit, that you might want to read. Did the same as you.
He has his house back after the judge kicked her, om and her kids out.


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## IDsrvBetr

I have been out of the house for 2 1/2 weeks now. I have contemplated moving back in. I know I have every right to and I'm living in kind of squalor at my shop compared to our house. I am sure she is going to try to get me thrown out of the house with at leastt a bogus DV claim. How do I avoid that? Any advice on actually going about doing this or what not to do. My main reason to go back is really to not let her rest in our comfortable home and take her sweet time deciding what to do. 

No one has filed D yet. We are scheduled with a mediator on Aug 12th. I am wondering if there is any advantage to me actually filing prior to this and bringing out the infidelity in that or does it really matter at this point. Our D should be pretty basic and really don't want to do anything to jeopardize that at this point if it will. 

Another quandry with moving back now is that I did tell all of our children and most of her family last Sunday the truth about the situation and she is livid. Not that that bothers me, I know it was the right thing to do and I did it very appropriately. I may post what I did later and see if you all agree. The OM is a single goomba so no point in trying to affectt his side of it.


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## IDsrvBetr

OldWolf57 said:


> There's a thread on SI by a guy named copingwithit, that you might want to read. Did the same as you.
> He has his house back after the judge kicked her, om and her kids out.


What is SI? And where might this thread be?


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## TrustlostHearbroken

2TimeLoser said:


> What is SI? And where might this thread be?


Sorry that you are going through this. Stay strong and stick with the 180. 

SI = SurvivingInfedilty.com it is also a community forum like TAM.


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## 3putt

2TimeLoser said:


> What is SI? And where might this thread be?


SurvivingInfidelity.com - 4 month rollercoaster


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## IDsrvBetr

bandit.45 said:


> Go back and break it up into paragraphs. Like they taught you in third grade. Then maybe people will want to answer you.


Sorry, I am usually quite anal about proper structure but I wrote that on my tablet and it's not the easiest at formatting. I agree and shall correct that post-haste.

Edit: I know it was long but does that make it a little more palatable?


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## AFallenAngel

2TimeLoser said:


> Our bio to start. I am 50, wife will be 50 in September. We raised a total of 9 children. 6 daughters and 3 boys. 5 mine, 2 hers, my nephew. His mother died when he was 7, my bro, although an okay guy, lousy parent. We got legal guardianship when he was 13. And one other boy. Youngest just turned 21(mine) oldest is 32(hers). 7 awesome grandchildren. We met in 2002 and it seemed impossibly perfect. You can imagine blending that family together. It had it’s fair share of problems and we almost gave up in 2006 but we succeeded. 9 children all raised to be responsible, upstanding adults in their own right. No addictions, no hangups, no trouble with the law. Two do their own work along with her in her studio (it’s not a salon because it’s by appt only) 4 work for me, one soon-to-be-lawyer, one architect, one wife of a Navy officer (go blue) and one works for the Army.
> 
> I was married for 16 years prior. She turned out BPD and that was a hell-on-wheels time. My wife got pregnant and married young. That lasted 7 yrs. Single for 5 yrs then remarried. Her previous husband died in 2001 of liver failure after 7 yrs.
> 
> So,back to my story. I don’t know how brief I can make it (not at all) but here it goes. Many details along the way that really tell the story but first I am going to just try a reader’s digest timeline of latest events.
> 
> The last two of our kids in college graduated this year. We attended our daughter’s ceremony on May 10th. On May 11th my wife went to neighboring town to do some stuff and when she came back it just instantly got weird. We were discussing ways to produce a product she came up with and I fabricated some prototypes. All of a sudden she just exploded on me. It was just so strange. Ten days of horrible silence and cold follow. She is now sleeping in a bedroom on the other side of the house. On May 22nd she demands I move out and I do (my biggest regret) At the time I thought I had to. That night I turn on my camera on my desk in our bedroom. Not your typical bedroom, it’s a 900 sf suite I built on the other side of the house before we were married and has our home offices, sitting area and sleeping area. I’m sure my actions and reasons are very common in this forum so I’m not going to bother explaining the whys. I did not expect anything, I just missed her. 7 pm she is sitting at the dining room table, gets a phone call and hurredly goes out on to the deck. 730ish I pick her up coming into the bedroom still talking. I can here a male voice on the other end and the conversation seems odd. They talked for about an hour. I am shaken but still don’t believe it. An hour later she is on the phone again. 9-10:30 this time. She is laying on the bed just chatting away about all kinds of things. The next phone call is a very graphic video phone call that just destroyed me. My wife was cheating on me.
> 
> I was obsessed and in overdrive. By 7 am I realized that she had been cheating on me since April 4th. It was not just a casual thing either. You all talk about warning signs, well there really weren’t many in my case. It blew me away how good she is at deception and lies. Up until May 11 her actions around me and everyone else were picture perfect. I correlated our activities, texts and communications with her contacts with him at the same time and it was scary how she acted so perfect and normal towards me at the same time she was communicating and carrying on with this guy. I drove to our oldest daughter’s house (her daughter), walked in the door and asked her if she knew about this. Told her what I found, and left. She said she knew nothing. Her and I are actually very close and she is completely disgusted with her mother. I found out she did a similar thing to her previous husband the year prior to his dying. My oldest daughter is my right-hand-man in my company so there was no way I could keep it from her so she knew everything. Other than that I refrained from letting any of the other kids in on anything until this last Sunday, July 26th. You all know the nightmare that followed for me. I found a good therapist who really helped make it not so disastrous for me.
> 
> On Sunday, June 7th I finally took the first step towards finding me again. I was out at daughter’s in-laws water skiing and actually enjoying the day. Got back to the dock about three and guess who is texting me. She wants to talk. I tell her I can’t right now I am busy but I will get ahold of her when I get back to the shop. Meet up with her that evening. We meet at her studio where she breaks down crying. She had a problem with her camper that weekend while going on an outing with her club and she realized the only person she wanted to call for help was me. Deep emotional talk ensues and then sex. I am moving back home the next day to try to work on things. (my 2nd biggest regret, how I handled that). I set boundaries, she plows them over, I try to talk about us, she says no way, she has to fix herself first. Sex is nothing close to normal. She is normally hands-on and very involved. Now it’s like she initiates it by saying “I want you to **** me” and just lays there. No interaction and no reciprocation at all. Some nights she breaks down into self-denigrating talk about what a horrible wife and person she is, how she is just empty and has no feelings towards me or anything else, calling herself a **** and a failure etc. She is “going” to counselling and I don’t pry but from what I glean they are focusing on her childhood and codependency. Strikes me as odd and rather disturbing. You’d think a therapist would work on stablizing before delving into deeper issues but this wasn’t the case. Pretty sure now that she had her therapist fooled just like the rest of us. I tried to be patient and let her have her space to sort things out. I am a patient man, I can put us on hold.
> 
> By this time I have found out who this guy is from his burn phone but she doesn’t know. I have all of his personal info and both his cell numbers. The only “reassurance” she would give me about the OM is not to worry, he’s not in our circle and I will never meet him. July 4th we go to the river to spend the day at her friend’s place. Having a great and relaxing time and OM shows up. I look at her sitting there looking at both of us and see nothing in her expression or demeanor. I wonder what kind of a person could do that to their spouse and show absolutely no emotion about it. The following Sunday we get the grandkids and go to church like we always do, go to breakfast after and take the kids home. We go home and she says she is going to help her friend move out of her house. (her divorce just signed and she had to go). Two hours after she goes she texts me telling me she wants a divorce. I see a FB post with pictures of their moving party and, yes, the OM was there also. She is now completely immersed in this crowd of “friends” now who don’t have a stable relationship among them. Always alcohol, parties, drama and anything else to cover up their otherwise empty pathetic lives and she is all in with it now.
> 
> I move out the next day and back into my shop. (I wish I knew at the time I didn’t have to leave)I am coming to terms with my future and trying to get through it. Talking to leadership at the church when I need to as well as very easy communication with my therapist.
> So many actions I regret in all of this. Always finding out too late that I did things completely wrong and wondering what the outcome may have been if I had read or talked to someone about it prior to doing it. In retrospect, my biggest regret was leaving the house. I wish I had talked to an attorney prior to doing that. It really hurts thinking how my present situation would be had I done that. My second regret was how I handled the “reconciliation”. My therapist tells me to stop thinking about it because, based on what he knows of the situation, it probably would have resulted in the same outcome. I know he is right but you know how we obsess on the woulda-coulda-shoulda’s in life.
> 
> I know it is unhealthy for me to dwell on those things and I have to move forward with the reality I have now but it is so hard.
> I’m just going to post what I have here for now because half of you probably stopped reading an hour ago. Anyways...Hi All!!


My story is similar only not so many kids.. 4 total plus 7 exchange students and I'm the wife who was more than cheated on multiple times. He now is living somewhere else and I have VERY mixed emotions but after 18 solid years of cheating and other things, I am trying my hardest to take care of me and my girls and I love them so don't take this wrong but it sucks and I can't keep my emotions in check but I learned the hard way that trust is very fragile and some ppl will try their hardest to earn it back but others will just try to go back and think nothing of putting the work in to rebuilding that trust and those ppl will not only cheat again but escilate their behavior. But that's just my story. Everyone has a different ending. I hope that your wife comes to understand that things just can't be put back together without hard work and actually does what it takes to get that happy relationship back 💖
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61

You should confront your wife and do it in front of the kids you need to shame her....you please move back in the house and then file while at home you can not fix anything while this is all underground.


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## Thorburn

1. Start the 180
2. Lawyer up and keep your WS in the dark
3. Move back home


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## honeysuckle04

Sympathies go out to you. Living in the same home as the ws is very hard. You are doing good with getting a therapist. 
One day at a time and don't forget to breath.
There are great minds on here to give you good advice and encouragement.


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## aine

This is really tough. You Ww is in affair fog and mixed with midlife probably doesn't realise what she has.
Move back into your house
Record every conversation you have
Do the 180 for yourself
Keep going to counselling
Ensure you tell everyone what she is doing, no covering for her, no mercy
Live your life for you and your kids 
Proceed with mediation but be ready for divorce


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## 6301

2TimeLoser said:


> I have been out of the house for 2 1/2 weeks now. I have contemplated moving back in. I know I have every right to and I'm living in kind of squalor at my shop compared to our house. I am sure she is going to try to get me thrown out of the house with at leastt a bogus DV claim. How do I avoid that? Any advice on actually going about doing this or what not to do. My main reason to go back is really to not let her rest in our comfortable home and take her sweet time deciding what to do.


 First of all, did she move in your home, you move in her's or is this a new house you bought together? If it's your home then get your ass back there now and reclaim your property. Even if you bought a house with her it's still half yours and you don't want to walk away from it.

As far as her and a bogus DV claim, buy yourself a VAR or two of them so you have a backup and carry it with you at all times to protect yourself. If she tries that DV stuff then you can play back the tape and have yourself covered. 

Next thing is to inform everyone of her affair, friends family and if the OM has a wife, inform her and his boss. Make it as tough on her as possible. Your letting her walk all over you and if you keep it up your going to lose everything.

Get home and let her know if this is your home before you married her that she can go live with the OM and if you let her stay until she can find a place, reclaim your bedroom and let her sleep on the couch. Time for you to put your big boy pants on and take charge of the situation.


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## soccermom2three

Can you call your local police department and ask them what you can do to protect yourself from false DV accusations?


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## Dyokemm

"I am sure she is going to try to get me thrown out of the house with at leastt a bogus DV claim. How do I avoid that?"

OP...you buy a VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) and carry it with you always...turn it on whenever you are in her presence.

That will put an end to any bullsh*t from her along those lines.

And who cares if she is livid....if she doesn't want to live in the house with you present, tell her she is free to go enjoy her freedom with this POS.

I hope your kids that work in her studio are refusing to work with her now, and making plans to go elsewhere.

Being rejected by your loved ones because she turned into a traitorous piece of filth hurts...and maybe will slap some common sense back into her.


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## dash74

soccermom2three said:


> Can you call your local police department and ask them what you can do to protect yourself from false DV accusations?


Agree

This is a big one, have a set plan cameras and voice if possible

The op needs to research the crap out of this his spouse is not his spouse anymore and if he steps on her dreams she will vilify demean and file false reports on him


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## ThePheonix

My recommendation is to take advantage of this opportunity, let her go, and replace her. She, at least in her current state of mind, has replaced you, so give her what she wished for before he ditches her and your stuck keeping up someone who stays with you because what they want didn't work out. At age 50, you can find another model. You know the saying, "out with the old and in with the new".

In the real world, once you make up your mind you no longer want to "reconcile", the solution of this problem of moving out, phony DV charges, kids, etc, tends to clear up since you are no longer trying to keep a door to winning her back open cracked open.


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## IDsrvBetr

She bought the house in 2003, I moved in early 2004 and we were married later that year and have been there ever since. All mortgage and bills paid from our joint account for the last 11 years. It is community property and according to the sheriff she cannot keep me out and they will do nothing to stop me from being there. 

I know this will have an affect in the actual divorce but as far as habitation goes we have equal rights to reside there. I plan on talking to the sheriff again prior to doing this exactly about false reports and what can be proactively done. Right now I am waiting for a phone call from my therapist to see if he has any convincing reasons why I should not do this. So far the benefits far outweigh the risks. 

Our oldest daughter works in the studio but will only go there on her days off. WW works Tues, Thurs, Friday. Daughter doesn't want to be anywhere near her so schedules her clients on the other days. WW has alienated her firstborn daughter and five of her grandchildren by doing this. 1stDD and her hubbs have been a huge support for me in this. She is actually trying to find a way out of the studio but for now she is just bearing it. 

Last Friday, as a courtesy, I sent WW an email explaining what my intentions were in telling the family and why I was doing it. We have a private group just for our family and I locked it down on Sunday and posted a letter to the family going into just enough detail from April 4th to present to let them know the truth about what is going on with us. I explained why I thought it was important to do this and what my intentions are in the future. 8 of the nine are being very supportive, the ninth is very very close to her mother in several ways and really laid into me for doing it. I do not hold it against her, it was rather expected by all. I still consider her my daughter and will treat her exactly the same as the rest. The only way this will get in public domain is if WW puts it out there. After it was posted, (2nd DD sent ss to WW) She text several of the kids. It was rather comical. She told them she did her best to keep this private and between us. She said "Your father is dragging you into this with his lies and for THIS I apologize." 5th DD who is in law school replied to her with scathing responses. I really wish I could post some of this on here but obviously that can't happen. Turns out she actually knew who the guy was even before I did. She can be a scary stalker at times and is going to make a great lawyer in two years. 

I could not find any VAR locally, just ordered two on amazon will be here by Friday morning. In the meantime I'm going to try to make sure my phone is on and recording.

I really wish I would have found this site a month and a half ago, my situation would be a whole lot different. But I'm sure they hear that from most everyone new person around here. I have come to the conclusion that i must get out and quickly. I'm not moving back in looking for R. I am doing it so she doesn't sit too comfortably in our house and just slowplay things while I am stuck living in my shop.


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## AFallenAngel

I'm sorry you are afraid of her trying something like a false DV report. Do know that she can injure herself and say that you did it. So many women do that and it makes the valid cases harder to prosecute. But ask yourself this. If you already fear that, why are you even going back to her? You must have a reason for thinking that and I would hate to see that happen. 

It is your choice but if you think she is capable of committing a crime by filing a false report, then you really should think twice about moving back. 

If you still want to move back, be sure to go to your local PD and explain that you are in the process of trying to rebuild that marriage but that you have noticed her acting a little "off" and that you don't know if she is just overwhelmed or anything but you want them to be aware of your fear. But they will probably ask you the same question. If you think she's capable, then why go back. 

Also the VAR or even the memo function on your phone will record and if she starts getting weird, record EVERYTHING. You can always delete "normal convos" 

I would be very wary of going back if you are already thinking she will do that to you. But protect yourself in every way possible if you do go back. 

I have had friends do that to their husbands and also husbands do that to my friends. One left, scratched his own face, called the cops and said he left before she could do more damage. She was arrested and charged later dropped but the arrest stays public record forever. Could your business survive if you had that out there where anyone with a computer can search? Please be careful
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix

I'd be willing to bet youre not listed as a co-owner of the property and probably not down to get title to or even live in the house if she kicks the bucket. Nevertheless, under tenant law you have a right to be there until evicted by the court. I suspect you'll be kissing that 900 sf room you build goodbye.


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## soccermom2three

ThePheonix said:


> I'd be willing to bet youre not listed as a co-owner of the property and probably not down to get title to or even live in the house if she kicks the bucket. Nevertheless, under tenant law you have a right to be there until evicted by the court. I suspect you'll be kissing that 900 sf room you build goodbye.


It depends on the state he is in. Here in California if he can prove that he helped make mortgage payments and if he didn't sign a Quitclaim Deed giving her sole and separate property of the home then he's entitled to half.


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## GusPolinski

2TimeLoser said:


> I have been out of the house for 2 1/2 weeks now. I have contemplated moving back in. I know I have every right to and I'm living in kind of squalor at my shop compared to our house. *I am sure she is going to try to get me thrown out of the house with at leastt a bogus DV claim. How do I avoid that? Any advice on actually going about doing this or what not to do.* My main reason to go back is really to not let her rest in our comfortable home and take her sweet time deciding what to do.
> 
> No one has filed D yet. We are scheduled with a mediator on Aug 12th. I am wondering if there is any advantage to me actually filing prior to this and bringing out the infidelity in that or does it really matter at this point. Our D should be pretty basic and really don't want to do anything to jeopardize that at this point if it will.
> 
> Another quandry with moving back now is that I did tell all of our children and most of her family last Sunday the truth about the situation and she is livid. Not that that bothers me, I know it was the right thing to do and I did it very appropriately. I may post what I did later and see if you all agree. The OM is a single goomba so no point in trying to affectt his side of it.


Buy a VAR and keep it on your person AT ALL TIMES. Pair it w/ lithium batteries (get rechargeable to save some $$$ over time) for the best bang for your buck.

ETA: I see you've already ordered a couple of VARs. Awesome!


----------



## IDsrvBetr

AFallenAngel said:


> I'm sorry you are afraid of her trying something like a false DV report. Do know that she can injure herself and say that you did it. So many women do that and it makes the valid cases harder to prosecute. But ask yourself this. If you already fear that, why are you even going back to her? You must have a reason for thinking that and I would hate to see that happen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FallenAngel, I had no intention of moving back into the house to R, merely to make her uncomfortable. Unfortunately since my last post my therapist did call and we had a good 30 minute discussion about this. He told me my reasons and rational were valid but, based on WW's actions so far there is a very very high risk of exactly what you stated in your post and he feels the risk assessment is not good. He fears she could come completely unhinged especially since I already outted her to our family earlier this week. I do tend to agree with him. I told him I will put it on the back burner for now and we will discuss it first of the week. This past month at least I have learned to control my impulses and consult someone before I act on most things. 



ThePheonix said:


> I'd be willing to bet youre not listed as a co-owner of the property and probably not down to get title to or even live in the house if she kicks the bucket. Nevertheless, under tenant law you have a right to be there until evicted by the court. I suspect you'll be kissing that 900 sf room you build goodbye.


From a habitation standpoint, we both have every legal right to be there. I do still go over there. I just try to make sure it's when she is not around. I have even documented discussions with the sheriff about this just in case.
From a property division standpoint you are correct. But i am not concerned about that aspect. I have every intention of letting her have the house free and clear as long as I keep my company free and clear from her. Most everything else in our situation is pretty minor and petty to argue over. I'm just hoping she is in a "rational" mood come mediation on the 12th. 
Yesterday she lit up on my office manager saying all bets are off because of the lies I am spreading all over the internet and she is going to destroy me for poisoning all the kids against her. No, I did not let this phase me at all. Unfortunately I'm a veteran with crazy and it's all coming back to me now.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

ThePheonix said:


> My recommendation is to take advantage of this opportunity, let her go, and replace her. She, at least in her current state of mind, has replaced you, so give her what she wished for before he ditches her and your stuck keeping up someone who stays with you because what they want didn't work out. At age 50, you can find another model. You know the saying, "out with the old and in with the new".


This is what I need to continue hearing. Thanks


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## bandit.45

I say your best bet is to go full nuclear on her. Keep exposing her. Become the Johnny Appleseed of exposure. Get mean with her. Show her a side of you she has never seen before. Hire the meanest nastiest most cutthroat lawyer you can find and go for broke. What do you have to lose? Her? Your marriage? Those are gone anyway. Protect your business and demand your share of the property. Don't back down. It is the only way she will respect you.


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## happyman64

:iagree: 

I think the only 2 mistakes you made were not exposing sooner and not punching the OM out when he showed up at the lake.

And I'm not advocating violence but if any OM showed up in front of my family it would be his last.

You should have called him out and your wife out as well.

Shame on them.

Now show her the new you. She deserves it.


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## IDsrvBetr

Last month during our "reconciliation", or whatever the hell it was, a brief story went national about a certain vocal advocate for a certain ethnicity exposed for being a fraud and misrepresenting herself to the public. Well, that person was a friend of ours and one of WW's clients. 

WW was livid when that story broke. "I can't believe she's been lying to me all these years after all the things we've done for her." "I just cannot associate with a person like that" and other statements along those lines. She had a an appt scheduled with her the week after she got back from her 15min of fame on all the morning talk-shows. The day before her appt, WW texted her firing her as a client. She responded with "Wow, you too? Okay". 

I now look back on WW's self-righteous indignation towards this person and think. She lied about her skin color. Her transgression is like jaywalking compared to you and look what it did to her image and reputation. I wish I could get WW on the morning talk-show circuit. 

One thing I am thankful for is that I fully understand that, when dealing with her thoughts and actions, logic and reason go completely out the window. This knowledge has saved me a lot of banging my head against the wall screaming "Why?" None of this is easy for me but prefacing any thoughts or memories of events with that knowledge has made this nightmare easiER to deal with.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

happyman64 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think the only 2 mistakes you made were not exposing sooner and not punching the OM out when he showed up at the lake.
> 
> And I'm not advocating violence but if any OM showed up in front of my family it would be his last.
> 
> You should have called him out and your wife out as well.
> 
> Shame on them.
> 
> Now show her the new you. She deserves it.


I do regret now not confronting them that day but I still had doubts about my own sanity. After all, we were trying to R, or so I thought. I didn't want to risk doing something in public I would regret later. Yes, I hesitated because of emotions at the time and justify it by saying "but what if I am wrong about the whole thing?" Well, I have added this non-action to the list of regrets I already have. 

Once again, I sure wish I would have found this forum earlier in all of this.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

2TimeLoser said:


> Last month during our "reconciliation", or whatever the hell it was, a brief story went national about a certain vocal advocate for a certain ethnicity exposed for being a fraud and misrepresenting herself to the public. Well, that person was a friend of ours and one of WW's clients.
> 
> WW was livid when that story broke. "I can't believe she's been lying to me all these years after all the things we've done for her." "I just cannot associate with a person like that" and other statements along those lines. She had a an appt scheduled with her the week after she got back from her 15min of fame on all the morning talk-shows. The day before her appt, WW texted her firing her as a client. She responded with "Wow, you too? Okay".
> 
> I now look back on WW's self-righteous indignation towards this person and think. She lied about her skin color. Her transgression is like jaywalking compared to you and look what it did to her image and reputation.* I wish I could get WW on the morning talk-show circuit.
> 
> *One thing I am thankful for is that I fully understand that, when dealing with her thoughts and actions, logic and reason go completely out the window. This knowledge has saved me a lot of banging my head against the wall screaming "Why?" None of this is easy for me but prefacing any thoughts or memories of events with that knowledge has made this nightmare easiER to deal with.


Sorry you're here brother. The part in bold made me snicker. That would be an interesting piece for sure.


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## alte Dame

I don't think it's a wonder at all that you raised all those children so successfully. You are a healthy, solid thinker with a good heart.

It sounds to me like your very next step should be making your break from her official with a lawyer. Have I missed that you've done that already? If you haven't, get legal counsel this week. Don't add another regret to your list.


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## TRy

2TimeLoser said:


> The last two of our kids in college graduated this year. We attended our daughter’s ceremony on May 10th. On May 11th my wife went to neighboring town to do some stuff and when she came back it just instantly got weird.


 On May 10th,"when the last two of your kids in college graduated", her need for you as a husband-father male provider came to an end. On May 11th, she began acting on that fact.


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## IDsrvBetr

TRy said:


> On May 10th,"when the last two of your kids in college graduated", her need for you as a husband-father male provider came to an end. On May 11th, she began acting on that fact.


Unfortunately this was the possible conclusion I came to after I discovered everything a few weeks later. I sent her this email shortly after:

_For thirty years I have stood here as a bulwark for those I loved. For thirty years I accepted that misery as part of the trials of responsibility. Selflessly sacrificing my emotions and my desires for the good of those I cared for. I'm not feeling sorry for myself for that or regretting it at all. I take great pride and joy in seeing the results. It was all worth it in my eyes.
Well, my war is over. The children are all grown and I look at them and how great they all have turned out and I do not regret a single one of those sacrifices I made. But that is just it, my job is complete. I now have the ability to make decisions out of pure selfishness and that is what I intend to do. We were planning on doing that together I thought and I was really looking forward to that.
I really liked the thought when you said a few months ago that, now that the kids are done we can start enjoying life together. I was all set to begin that journey with you this year. Apparently you wasted no time in starting without me. 
You can say all you want about me. I am not perfect but I know I am a good man and a good husband. Betraying this vow is the worst thing a person can do to another. I did not even know this kind of pain existed and right now I so want you to feel it because it is unbearable. Only a cold, heartless empty shell of a person could do this to a good man. No good man deserves this and no good person would ever think of inflicting it.
Is there is a chance of reconciliation? I don't know. It's looking more and more like it's not even worth it. Putting myself through this hell for god-knows how long, only to get back together whenever you feel it's right. Then running the high risk of going right back down this road again at some future point. I don't know who you are but you are not my wife. You are some person heading down a path to devastation and despair and I have no desire to go there. Neither would my wife. Maybe something is going on with you that could be treated and, over time, my wife would reappear. At this point it only means I have to continue living in the conditions you have put me in and you don't give a **** while you live in the comfort of the world we built together. No care, no compassion.
Get help or don't get help, that is entirely your choice because, although my wife was more than worth fighting for, this person most certainly is not. Go join in with the river rats because their lives are all so wonderful. They don't have a care in the world. If, by some remote chance, my amazing wife shows back up, that would be wonderful but I am not going to just sit here like this forever hoping. I am selfishly moving on with my life because I am allowed to do that now, with or without you._

When I re-read that now I still see the Mr Nice Guy that probably contributed a lot to my present situation.

A week later is when she got ahold of me wanting to "reconcile" which turned out to be anything but. I still don't understand that episode in all of this other than I went about that all wrong.


----------



## badmemory

It is amazing how a BS's perspective can change after listening to the advice on this forum. Don't beat yourself up. It's rare for any BS to make all the right moves in the wake of their devastation. The important thing is that you don't repeat the same mistakes.

The path to a successful R is a narrow one. Other than the BS's capacity to forgive, that path is largely defined by the WS's demonstrated remorse. Right now there is no path. Your mind set should be that you're headed straight to divorce.

*Move back in that house.*


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## Graywolf2

2TimeLoser said:


> Another quandary with moving back now is that I did tell all of our children and most of her family last Sunday the truth about the situation and *she is livid*.


Your wife had a plan and a cover story for her actions: 

1.	Divorce you because marriage was bad (empty nest, etc.)

2.	Start dating OM

3.	Slowly discover how great he is and get married.

You ruined that. Now the OM is forever tainted with her family.



2TimeLoser said:


> She told them she did her best to keep this private and between us. She said "Your father is dragging you into this with his lies and for THIS I apologize."


My bet is that your “lies” involved her already carrying on with the OM. Something that she and the upstanding OM would never do.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Graywolf2 said:


> Your wife had a plan and a cover story for her actions:
> 
> 1.	Divorce you because marriage was bad (empty nest, etc.)
> 
> 2.	Start dating OM
> 
> 3.	Slowly discover how great he is and get married.
> 
> You ruined that. Now the OM is forever tainted with her family.
> 
> 
> 
> My bet is that your “lies” involved her already carrying on with the OM. Something that she and the upstanding OM would never do.


You nailed it.


----------



## Yeswecan

2Timeloser,

Reading this is heartbreaking. Specifically since the entire family has done well over the years, etc. For parents, this takes hard work and care in assuring each child is as successful as they can be. Parenting and team work now seem almost meaningless to your WW. 

I'm of mind to believe this crap with OM will not last. It will implode before long. Your WW will look to come back to you.


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## justastatistic

2TimeLoser said:


> I have been out of the house for 2 1/2 weeks now. I have contemplated moving back in. I know I have every right to and I'm living in kind of squalor at my shop compared to our house. I am sure she is going to try to get me thrown out of the house with at leastt a bogus DV claim. How do I avoid that?


Get a voice activated recorder and keep it on you (and on) at all times dealing with her. Cell Phone apps also work for recording. If she files a bogus DV against you, make sure you have the cops get her signature on the complaint first, then bring out the recorder and play it for them. Then file your own DV.

Move back in as soon as you have the VAR set up. Try to mediate the divorce if you seem to be getting the deal you want (i.e. favorable to you.) If it doesn't seem to be working file immediately, dont waste time.

Screenshot all those facebook pics and any other evidence you may have.


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## justastatistic

I really shouldn't go off half-****ed on these posts and should read to the end before posting. Just ignore me.


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## happyman64

2TimeLoser said:


> I do regret now not confronting them that day but I still had doubts about my own sanity. After all, we were trying to R, or so I thought. I didn't want to risk doing something in public I would regret later. Yes, I hesitated because of emotions at the time and justify it by saying "but what if I am wrong about the whole thing?" Well, I have added this non-action to the list of regrets I already have.
> 
> Once again, I sure wish I would have found this forum earlier in all of this.


It is never too late.

Remember one thing through all of this.

Trust your gut, it will not fail you.


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## weightlifter

Uh. You really did not do all that bad compared to ones who put years into a false reconciliation.
They don't put instructions on how to react to cheating during premarriage sessions.


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## GusPolinski

weightlifter said:


> Uh. You really did not do all that bad compared to ones who put years into a false reconciliation.
> *They don't put instructions on how to react to cheating during premarriage sessions.*


Which is precisely why those dealing w/ an adulterous spouse should go the extra mile to teach their children EXACTLY the correct ways to respond to it.

And, to be honest, measures that can be taken w/ the aim of _proactively_ preventing it (at least to the extent possible).


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## IDsrvBetr

GusPolinski said:


> Which is precisely why those dealing w/ an adulterous spouse should go the extra mile to teach their children EXACTLY the correct ways to respond to it.
> 
> And, to be honest, measures that can be taken w/ the aim of _proactively_ preventing it (at least to the extent possible).


Agree 100%

I cannot post all of what I told our children in public. The following paragraph is part of my explanation to them of why I am telling everyone. 

_As adults we all have to endure the consequences of our choices and our actions and she is not exempt from this. I will not allow her to blame me or anyone else for her actions. I feel this is a necessary step for me to try to recover from this devastating blow to my life. I am moving on but I am not abandoning any of you. I still love all of you and will always be here when you need me. This is her burden to bear, not mine. It is my responsibility to protect myself and those around us and I will continue to do that. 
I feel that by helping her keep this quiet I am sending a message that this is no big deal and I hope none of you ever think that way about your marriage. There is absolutely no worse betrayal than cheating, deception and lying in a marriage and I don’t want any of you ever thinking it’s not that bad. If you have problems in your marriage there are numerous other choices that could be made. There is no excuse. I hope none of you ever make your spouse feel the emotions I am going through because it is unbearable at times. Keeping her secret about it only makes them worse._ 

I have always believed that, when it's all over, the only real legacy we leave behind is our children and to me nothing takes priority over a parent's responsibility to guide them the best you can...even when they become adults.


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## turnera

2TimeLoser said:


> I have been out of the house for 2 1/2 weeks now. I have contemplated moving back in. I know I have every right to and I'm living in kind of squalor at my shop compared to our house. I am sure she is going to try to get me thrown out of the house with at leastt a bogus DV claim. How do I avoid that?


Hire a good home security company to come in the day that you move back in. Have them install video cameras in every room in the house except the bathroom; have it set up to send the data to your work email. Have it set up to save all the data (and not dump it or replace it). Just keep that data coming and let her know what you've done. That puts her on notice not to try to make a false claim because you'll have the proof that none happened.


----------



## AFallenAngel

2TimeLoser said:


> FallenAngel, I had no intention of moving back into the house to R, merely to make her uncomfortable. Unfortunately since my last post my therapist did call and we had a good 30 minute discussion about this. He told me my reasons and rational were valid but, based on WW's actions so far there is a very very high risk of exactly what you stated in your post and he feels the risk assessment is not good. He fears she could come completely unhinged especially since I already outted her to our family earlier this week. I do tend to agree with him. I told him I will put it on the back burner for now and we will discuss it first of the week. This past month at least I have learned to control my impulses and consult someone before I act on most things.
> 
> 
> 
> From a habitation standpoint, we both have every legal right to be there. I do still go over there. I just try to make sure it's when she is not around. I have even documented discussions with the sheriff about this just in case.
> From a property division standpoint you are correct. But i am not concerned about that aspect. I have every intention of letting her have the house free and clear as long as I keep my company free and clear from her. Most everything else in our situation is pretty minor and petty to argue over. I'm just hoping she is in a "rational" mood come mediation on the 12th.
> Yesterday she lit up on my office manager saying all bets are off because of the lies I am spreading all over the internet and she is going to destroy me for poisoning all the kids against her. No, I did not let this phase me at all. Unfortunately I'm a veteran with crazy and it's all coming back to me now.


Just be careful with this. Follow your gut here. If you think she is capable of filing a false DV report, protect yourself and just stay away. And quite honestly, she doesn't seem interested in doing the work to help put the pieces together. More like she wants to go on as if nothing happened. Like I said in my first post to you,my husband wanted to just move on as if nothing happened and didn't want to put in the work and I thought I could do that as long as he behaved but he didn't and I waited 10 years after the first time I caught him doing something and I suffer for it every day. Don't do that to yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dash74

Op if you have good wifi coverage in your house you can look a dropcams/nest cams it records to the cloud that are just under 200 bucks it maybe cheeper than having a company come out and install a system with the added benefit not worrying about a dvr being destroyed or turned off


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## Hardtohandle

@ 2timeloser

You are a very well spoken man.. You're very smart, strong and very courageous.. I wish I had half your smarts and balls going through my own issues.. 

I also feel like others here that because of the way your spouse is, that this will come crashing down around her.. I think that when really sees the full magnitude of how many have turned against her, she will hate it and feel shame and embarrassment.. She will have no place to hide.. 

My Ex wife simply shut everyone out of her life including our oldest son because she can't handle the shame of it all.


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## cgiles

2T you said you are a nice guy, but did you read : no more mr nice guy by robert glover ? 

www.7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

You can read "The married man sex life primer 2011" by Athol Kay, it's not about sex, but relationship.

If you didn't discovered it yet, the 180lists : The 180 | AFFAIRCARE


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## IDsrvBetr

In the self-inflicted "spare" time I've created for myself in all of this of course I've tried to figure out the WHY as I'm sure is the normal in this situation. Delving into my inner self and her actions lately and looking back for any indications before this.

In myself, being that this is my second go-around with insanity, I tried the "it's got to be something about me" investigation. I did read No More Mr Nice Guy and, based on his criteria, discovered that I am already actually a pretty integrated man. Yes, I do tend to go beyond what most would call normal when it comes to helping others. Yes, I guess I could be defined as co-dependent in some respect, but I also believe that what many people define as a co-dependency problem is actually a healthy relationship. 

As far as WW goes, I'm no expert but our history together and what is going on now just does not add up to any long-standing psychological condition. Yes, I actually do have some experience with this as my first X was rxBPD. Like I said in another post, unfortunately I am a veteran of crazy. I am quite aware that the WHY of what she is doing does not alleviate the fact that she IS doing it nor does it change my present reality in any way. It just makes it tougher to stick to my convictions here and I am always having those horrible bouts of hope in all of this. 

I have read and implemented the 180 and so far this has not affected my execution of the 180 but that nagging feeling of "what if" still overwhelms me once in a while and I just break down. Right now those are the darkest, most depressing moments for me. To get back to normal I just re-focus my thoughts to the fact that, by exposing her actions to the entire family, I have pushed it passed the point of no return. That doesn't make me feel better but it does snap me back to reality.


----------



## Dyokemm

2Time,

Great update.

And it's natural to want to know the why and reflect on it almost obsessively.

But, as I posted to LostinIowa on his thread recently, IMO there will never be a 'why' that is ever truly satisfactory.

IMO, the thought process of a traitor is simply too alien to a person who is loyal and understands commitment and the importance of honesty/keeping their word.

Every time you follow a train of thought in trying to understand what they were thinking or hoping to accomplish, you will keep running into a mental roadblock....you will reach a point where you will only find bewilderment....because, no matter what, you will look at their decision and say, "I would NEVER do that....why in the h*ll did they choose to?".

Try as you might, your logic will NEVER be able to give an answer to that question that your brain can accept.....you will never get that 'a ha' moment where your WW's thought process will suddenly make sense to you.

The only thing to do is accept you will NEVER understand why.


----------



## Cynthia

It's not hard to understand why, but the WS is not going to tell you that they are selfish and did not think past the nose on their face. They want it to sound all good and palatable or they simply will not give a reason, because they are not introspective enough to know the truth about their pathetic selves.


----------



## Chaparral

It looks like you might be blaming yourself for letting other people know what she did and that made things worse.

Just the opposite is true. She did the crime of being a traitor to her family. No matter how things eventually turn out, she has to wear that whether she admits it or not. She may not have the character left to do anything but run, hide and lie some more. All that this says about her is she was never a stand up person like you thought she was. She's selfish and self centered. Her actions show she has the ability to be vicious to people she supposedly loved. She is intentionally inflicting damage now.

Your only recourse is to fight to win. Actions deserve swift reactions and not rewards.


----------



## Shiksagoddess

2TL: First of all I am so very sorry this happened to you. I don't think you are a loser at all. I think that sometimes bad things happen to people who don't deserve it.

You might spend much of the rest of your life wondering why, if this could have been prevented, and what you might have done to deserve this betrayal. Although this is normal, there is not always meaning to be found in adversity.

My best advise to you is to be good to yourself. Surround yourself with the love of your family. Exercise. Reach out to friends. Try not to let your wife's betrayal and upcoming divorce be the only topic of conversation. Read a good book -- or a bad one. Take up a hobby you always wanted to try out.

Most of all, go forward this day -- this very moment -- as you mean to go on the rest of your life.

I wish you peace and hope you keep us updated.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Well I kind of slipped up on the 180 today. I saw a few of her close friends that we happened to have over for dinner in June during her faux R. I just had to ask them if they knew about the cheating at the time or if she was lying to them also. I'm sure it was stupid of me but these are the same friends that always assured me they would take care of her and not let anything happened when she went out with them without me. Stupid me, i should have known better but I couldn't help it. 

Can't wait to see what the fallout for this is going to be. At least I know where they stand on this now.


----------



## ThePheonix

2TimeLoser said:


> Can't wait to see what the fallout for this is going to be.


What fallout my man; unless you're going to lose something you'd be getting from them. Why put any value on what they say or do? Better yet, why would you even give a sh-t? Listen to the below and take it to heart. Let it be your personal "F you" message.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsovdtBgz3Q


----------



## IDsrvBetr

ThePheonix said:


> What fallout my man; unless you're going to lose something you'd be getting from them. Why put any value on what they say or do? Better yet, why would you even give a sh-t? Listen to the below and take it to heart. Let it be your personal "F you" message.:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsovdtBgz3Q


Thanks Phoenix, that helped although not as harsh as I would like but can't think of anything else at the moment. :frown2:


----------



## turnera

2TimeLoser said:


> Well I kind of slipped up on the 180 today. I saw a few of her close friends that we happened to have over for dinner in June during her faux R. I just had to ask them if they knew about the cheating at the time or if she was lying to them also. I'm sure it was stupid of me but these are the same friends that always assured me they would take care of her and not let anything happened when she went out with them without me. Stupid me, i should have known better but I couldn't help it.
> 
> Can't wait to see what the fallout for this is going to be. At least I know where they stand on this now.


There's nothing wrong with telling them the truth. The more the better, IMO.


----------



## Chaparral

2TimeLoser said:


> Well I kind of slipped up on the 180 today. I saw a few of her close friends that we happened to have over for dinner in June during her faux R. I just had to ask them if they knew about the cheating at the time or if she was lying to them also. I'm sure it was stupid of me but these are the same friends that always assured me they would take care of her and not let anything happened when she went out with them without me. Stupid me, i should have known better but I couldn't help it.
> 
> Can't wait to see what the fallout for this is going to be. At least I know where they stand on this now.


If you didn't ask them, how would you know whether to cut them out of your life or not. Friends do not help anybody stab you in the back.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Chaparral said:


> If you didn't ask them, how would you know whether to cut them out of your life or not. Friends do not help anybody stab you in the back.


I know. I was just kind of hoping against hope that they were keeping it from them also. I did go in knowing the odds of that were remote and I was correct. It just reinforces my thoughts on that group of "friends" we had. I was never very comfortable around them but she is totally immersed in them. I can't think of a single one of them that is in a stable relationship and that has always bothered me. Always some drama from one or the other. Well, now we are their latest drama unfortunately. They will go on drinking and partying because it's the only thing that makes them happy. 

Oh well, re-engaging 180 and bracing for whatever the future holds. It's like death from a thousand cuts.


----------



## itbeme

I know this will sound harsh, in other words, ya'all are the flavor of the month for the drama. Giving one of them a break. Sounds like some shallow people. 2TL hold your head up and know your gut instinct was on target where they are concerned, they are not true friends and leave them be. Do a bit of work on YOU, make a new and better life for yourself and kids. You are a good and strong man that still has the world. Know you are a wonderful Dad raised your children to be upstanding adults and that is a feat in itself. With time you will be truly happy and able to smile again.


----------



## Cynthia

Be glad they told you the truth so you really know what they are like and how they treat their so called friends.
I don't think it was bad to ask them, so you know where they are coming from.
Telling people what your wife has done/is doing to you is about your life and you are free to tell whomever you wish. Just don't make it your only topic of conversation.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

This is a part of a letter I got from her atty a few days ago. I find it both humorous and disturbing at the same time. 

*ME** has been posting numerous damaging and untrue statements
about my client on Facebook for their family members to see. Well, this is all true except for her using the adjectives "numerous" and "untrue". 
Additionally, he has been stalking my client, invading the privacy of her client/therapist relationship with her counselor, entering the house unwanted, unannounced and without permission, as well as recording my client's conversations that she is having with other people without her permission and where he is not a party to the conversation. Talk about paranoia. I have not had any contact with WW since July 22nd. My client is extremely disturbed by these behaviors and demands that he immediately stop these actions and behaviors.

I like how she adds the "entering the house unwanted, unannounced and without her permission" right in the middle of a bunch of god-knows-what-paranoia is going through her brain. Notice she didn't say I couldn't be at the house, only that she didn't want me there. 

Truth is I have not had any contact with her other than the email on the 24th informing her of my intentions on the 26th. I believe the last time I actually saw her was on July 22nd yet I got this letter two days ago. I've honestly been too busy to even think about her personally much other than when I'm sitting here at night. I just don't understand where all this comes from. 

We have mediation scheduled for this Wed. I guess it's then I will have a better idea of how this is going to play out. I'm not optimistic in the least.


----------



## turnera

Typical lawyer stuff. Put you on the defensive so you waste time fighting the bullshyte instead of going on the offensive. Ignore it.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

turnera said:


> Typical lawyer stuff. Put you on the defensive so you waste time fighting the bullshyte instead of going on the offensive. Ignore it.


Pretty much how I took it. My response to her was:

Yes, I have confirmed with the mediator our appointment 8/12 at 10 am. I am looking forward to a productive meeting and hope we can both agree on what is best for the needs of both parties involved and move through this process quickly and amicably. 

I just ignored everything else. What's disgusting though is this is actually what my WW is telling anyone that will listen. I even had the sheriff call me the other night and adamantly ask me if I have any listening devices installed in my house or on her phone.


----------



## dash74

2TimeLoser said:


> I even had the sheriff call me the other night and adamantly ask me if I have any listening devices installed in my house or on her phone.


Did you tell him yes but it only records the words I and me and you have over 200 hours of recordings since you left the house


----------



## happyman64

2Time

Have I told you just how much I hate your username. It just does not describe you at all.

She is the 2time or maybe now 3time loser.

I truly hope you are calm, cool and firm on Wednesday.

And you might really need an attorney with you. If you have paid for her home and paid for expansion/improvements in the home then you have value/equity in the home.




> I've tried to figure out the WHY as I'm sure is the normal in this situation.


It is pretty simple when you think about it. She raised 9 kids. She is done with the kids. They are grownup.

She made a selfish, conscious decision that she is done with you now. She also did it in the most hurtful way possible. Realize she is done. She is not the person you married. She is certainly not the person you thought she was.

"Her" friends are not your friends nor will they ever be. They sound like people of "low" character.

IMO your STBXW is not someone I could ever forgive nor have a post divorce relationship with. And I do not say that lightly.


She just chucked away 30 years of memories, emotions and family right out the window......

Your best course of action is to get what you are entitled to. Screw any of her developing "prototypes" that you are working on for her and protect your kids as best you can.

She will always be Mom and Grandma. But wife is a title she has lost any credibility for.

You keep setting a good example for your family and keep repeating to her lawyer and the sheriff that you have no idea what she/they are talking about when it comes to eavesdropping.

Don't be a nice guy on Wed. Show her the new you.

HM


----------



## IDsrvBetr

happyman64 said:


> 2Time
> 
> Have I told you just how much I hate your username. It just does not describe you at all.
> 
> 
> HM


Well, I'm not very fond of it either. Understand my emotional state when I joined this forum. I didn't want to use anything familiar and that is was pretty much my mindset at the time of joining, that I have failed everyone yet again. 

Unfortunately I'm stuck with the name on here now so I have to embrace it I guess. 

I am consulting with a new attorney on Monday and will go from there. I will leave it up to her to determine if I need to retain her then or just wait and see how the mediation goes on Wednesday. 

Fortunately my therapist is also an attorney and has actually been very helpful in explaining how the mediation works and what I should be doing and how I should proceed in it. Still nervous as hell because I don't see her being at all cooperative even though she is the one that initiated and scheduled the mediation.


----------



## farsidejunky

PM a moderator. They can change it for you.

And stay strong, brother. You are doing well.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

2TimeLoser said:


> This is a part of a letter I got from her atty a few days ago. I find it both humorous and disturbing at the same time.
> 
> *ME** has been posting numerous damaging and untrue statements
> about my client on Facebook for their family members to see. Well, this is all true except for her using the adjectives "numerous" and "untrue".
> Additionally, he has been stalking my client, invading the privacy of her client/therapist relationship with her counselor, entering the house unwanted, unannounced and without permission, as well as recording my client's conversations that she is having with other people without her permission and where he is not a party to the conversation. Talk about paranoia. I have not had any contact with WW since July 22nd. My client is extremely disturbed by these behaviors and demands that he immediately stop these actions and behaviors.
> 
> I like how she adds the "entering the house unwanted, unannounced and without her permission" right in the middle of a bunch of god-knows-what-paranoia is going through her brain. Notice she didn't say I couldn't be at the house, only that she didn't want me there.
> 
> Truth is I have not had any contact with her other than the email on the 24th informing her of my intentions on the 26th. I believe the last time I actually saw her was on July 22nd yet I got this letter two days ago. I've honestly been too busy to even think about her personally much other than when I'm sitting here at night. I just don't understand where all this comes from.
> 
> We have mediation scheduled for this Wed. I guess it's then I will have a better idea of how this is going to play out. I'm not optimistic in the least.


The bit you posted sounds suspiciously like a letter, detailing an attempt, to get a restraining order and bar you from the house. Show your lawyer.


----------



## ThePheonix

2TimeLoser said:


> I was never very comfortable around them but she is totally immersed in them. I can't think of a single one of them that is in a stable relationship and that has always bothered me. Always some drama from one or the other.


You may as well go ahead and admit it Dawg. You don't really give a rats azz about this crowd and would it be little more than a passing thought if you heard they went down with the cruise ship they were on. >
On your username, virtually every guy that's had more than two wives or serious girlfriends are at least two time losers. I've got you beat by a ways my man.


----------



## ThePheonix

phillybeffandswiss said:


> The bit you posted sounds suspiciously like a letter, detailing an attempt, to get a restraining order and bar you from the house. Show your lawyer.


As a former law (commercial/business) professor, you need and probably already have, run it by your attorney. If it were me, Id limit my response, in respect to her allegations, as, "Ill take her allegations under advisement".


----------



## IDsrvBetr

phillybeffandswiss said:


> The bit you posted sounds suspiciously like a letter, detailing an attempt, to get a restraining order and bar you from the house. Show your lawyer.


Oh that and comments and strange demeanor and actions the last three months or so most definitely indicate jockeying for some legitimacy in filing a RO on me. Quite well aware of that. 

Phoenix, as for a response, the above post is all I responded to in that letter. I will not give all the allegations a second glance much less respond to them. 

As to the river rats, you are 100% correct in my feelings and attitude towards them. It's just sad that they sucked my wife in with them and destroyed the future I was looking forward to.


----------



## carmen ohio

2TimeLoser said:


> *This is a part of a letter I got from her atty a few days ago.* I find it both humorous and disturbing at the same time.
> 
> *ME** has been posting numerous damaging and untrue statements
> about my client on Facebook for their family members to see. Well, this is all true except for her using the adjectives "numerous" and "untrue".
> Additionally, he has been stalking my client, invading the privacy of her client/therapist relationship with her counselor, entering the house unwanted, unannounced and without permission, as well as recording my client's conversations that she is having with other people without her permission and where he is not a party to the conversation. Talk about paranoia. I have not had any contact with WW since July 22nd.  My client is extremely disturbed by these behaviors and demands that he immediately stop these actions and behaviors.
> 
> I like how she adds the "entering the house unwanted, unannounced and without her permission" right in the middle of a bunch of god-knows-what-paranoia is going through her brain. Notice she didn't say I couldn't be at the house, only that she didn't want me there.
> 
> Truth is I have not had any contact with her other than the email on the 24th informing her of my intentions on the 26th. I believe the last time I actually saw her was on July 22nd yet I got this letter two days ago. I've honestly been too busy to even think about her personally much other than when I'm sitting here at night. I just don't understand where all this comes from.
> 
> We have mediation scheduled for this Wed. I guess it's then I will have a better idea of how this is going to play out. I'm not optimistic in the least.





2TimeLoser said:


> Pretty much how I took it. *My response to her was:*
> 
> Yes, I have confirmed with the mediator our appointment 8/12 at 10 am. I am looking forward to a productive meeting and hope we can both agree on what is best for the needs of both parties involved and move through this process quickly and amicably.
> 
> I just ignored everything else. What's disgusting though is this is actually what my WW is telling anyone that will listen. I even had the sheriff call me the other night and adamantly ask me if I have any listening devices installed in my house or on her phone.


Dear 2TL,

If you retained an attorney in connection with your marital problems and if your WW's attorney knew this and nevertheless sent a letter to you (or copied you on a letter she sent to your attorney), then your WW's attorney committed a serious ethical violation. Attorneys in the U.S. (where I presume you reside) are strictly forbidden from communicating directly with their clients' adversaries, being required instead to communicate solely with the adversaries' lawyers.

If this is the case, you should discuss this with your attorney and ask that it be brought to the attention of the local bar association for disciplinary action.

If you had an attorney at the time you received the letter, you should have discussed it with your attorney and had him or her respond. Under no circumstances should you respond to written communications from your WW or her attorney before consulting with your attorney. There are numerous tricks lawyers employ to get unsuspecting adversaries to make statements that can later be used against them. In your case, for example, the fact that you did not challenge your WW's attorney's false allegations could be cited as an admission that what was said was true. While you could still contest the false claims later, the fact that you did not contest them when they were first made (i.e., in your responding letter) could harm your case.

The bottom line is this: you are in a legal dispute and you have rights and property that are under threat; you therefore need to secure effective legal representation to protect your rights and property, and carefully follow their legal advice.

I know everybody hates lawyers, but a good lawyer is your best protection against your WW's depredations and the anti-male bias of U.S. family law.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Well, it was a good day today. Too bad I am feeling worse than I have in a while.

Good news is great I guess. Had mediation today. It took four hours but we did come to an agreement. Can't discuss it but I'm happy it is over. At least I don't have to anguish about that aspect anymore. 

So, now the rest.

For starters, I ordered a few VARs off Amazon to keep with me in case I had any run-ins or discussions with her about anything. Well, she had a printout of the order. I have no idea how she got it but she knew exactly what I had bought. I have a feeling she has a keylogger on this computer or something. Oh well. 

So now the worst part is I should be in a great mood today right? In mediation she kept inferring that I am some kind of evil heartless person the last few weeks and, unfortunately she has to go through with this divorce because of that. Other than the idiotic internet surfing I end up doing when I am bored and alone at night I have avoided her like the plague.

Shortly after mediation this appeared on her pinterest https://www.pinterest.com/pin/178173728982301845/. This could not be further from the truth. There are a lot of other things that basically say the same thing. How cold-hearted and selfish I am so she has no choice but to divorce me.

It's just a whole barrage of things like this that are tearing me up emotionally. 
The rational side of me knows this is not true and she is doing this to justify everything so she doesn't look bad and possibly to make me want to run to her.
The emotional side is kicking my rational side's ass right now though because I do just want to go talk to her and convince her that this is all because we never communicated our problems to each other. 

I just keep thinking that she did a lot of bad things to me and never explained anything yet she texts me "I hope you understand" That is the most frustrating part! I want to ask her How I'm supposed to understand anything if you don't explain it to me?? 
Okay, I've got to stop typing because I am just rambling now. I just keep thinking if only she communicated why she did the things she did and I could communicate with her why I reacted to things the way i did it would all be better. This is most definitely not the outcome I want for my future. I wish I could just tell her that the only thing I ever wanted in life is to spend the rest of it with her. And I still do.
I just can't help thinking that this whole situation is because everything that has transpired is based on assumptions due to lack of communication. 

Okay, enough rambling. I am being pathetic right now.


----------



## turnera

Some people would rather die before apologizing. Such people aren't worth agonizing over, because you deserve better.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

She is playing the victim card up HUGE. Telling everyone she is not on fb anymore because her account keeps getting hacked. I am recording all her phone calls on her cell phone. (is that possible?) I have the house bugged with listening devices. I am stalking her. I am interfering with her and her therapist. She is telling everyone she didn't want to divorce me but because of my actions she just had to to be happy. I am hiding all my money in secret accounts. She had the receptionist walk her from outside through a back door to a room for mediation because she was afraid to be near me. i poisoned all of our kids against her. it just goes on and on and on. 

I just have to try to keep reminding myself that she is the one that chose to cheat on me rather than, if there actually were problems, talk to me about them and try to fix them. Now all she says is she begged and pleaded with me and tried to get me to listen to her but I just didn't care enough to listen. I may not be the most attentive man around but I would have definitely responded if, just once, she had told me "Honey, we need to talk" or something like that. I know I did nothing wrong, I just have to keep convincing myself of that.

There is still a big part of me that just wants to make it all better though even though I know she is toxic.


----------



## happyman64

2TimeLoser said:


> There is still a big part of me that just wants to make it all better though even though I know she is toxic.


You said two interesting things tonight.

You cannot make it better. Your wife is cheating, lying to everyone who will listen and has a BF while married to you.

How could you do anything to make the situation better?

Only your wife has that ability and she is too busy living in LaLa denial land.

The only choice you have is the direction you are heading. Mediation.




> I just can't help thinking that this whole situation is because everything that has transpired is based on assumptions due to lack of communication.


Again what communication. She is still lying. She is still cheating. What communication could you two possibly have that would be meaningful or positive if she lies to your face.

That is why you both have a mediator.

I understand you love your wife but after the pinterest post and hacking your pc you are both at odds to any reconciliation.

And honestly if your wife wanted to reconcile don't you think she would have ditched the OM, moved back into your room and begged for you to talk about your future together.

Keep the vars on to protect yourself. Realize that she is probably reading here and believe that she thinks she is smarter than you.

All you need to do is believe that you are taking the correct steps to get out of her infidelity.

The rest you'll figure out in time.

HM


----------



## Cynthia

Buy a new computer and lock it down with face recognition login.
Change all your passwords.
She is trying to blame shift to you. Protect yourself.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Okay, I like this username better. Thanks for the assist EleGirl


----------



## dash74

IDsrvBetr said:


> Okay, I like this username better. Thanks for the assist EleGirl


Yes bravo eg


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Random here:

I just answered a personal ad. I really have no idea why. I think it's a futile attempt to fill this pervasive emptiness I've been feeling for the last week. I think I now know what depression feels like and see why people so easily fall into drugs or alcohol or other destructive behaviors in times like this. This is just a horrible feeling that just seems to linger constantly in the background of my mind no matter what I am doing. I just want it to go away so I can concentrate on things that matter. 

Right now I have no desire to get into any type of relationship. Number one reason is that I am still married and it is wrong. Secondly what the hell kind of companion would I be to anyone right now? I know I will not come across as the person I really am so why would I do this? Anyways, I'm sure nothing will come of it. In the back of my mind I keep thinking it would be kind of funny if it was my WW on the other end. :surprise:

Tomorrow I have to fly 2800 miles to Boston for a 30 min physical and let them suck my blood. Then 2800 miles back here. Get back Thurs morning, drive 100 miles south for a pre-con meeting Thursday afternoon for one project and get mobilized on a different project on Friday. 

At least I should be very busy in the next several months to get my mind off my personal situation a bit. I just hope I can concentrate on work as my jobs require me to get everything perfect or it all gets difficult. OD has nothing on me when it comes to logistics. Except I do it all in my head. :nerd:


----------



## carmen ohio

IDsrvBetr said:


> Random here:
> 
> I just answered a personal ad. I really have no idea why. I think it's a futile attempt to fill this pervasive emptiness I've been feeling for the last week. I think I now know what depression feels like and see why people so easily fall into drugs or alcohol or other destructive behaviors in times like this. This is just a horrible feeling that just seems to linger constantly in the background of my mind no matter what I am doing. I just want it to go away so I can concentrate on things that matter.
> 
> . . .


IDB,

Have a talk with your GP about your mental state. You may be a candidate for anti-depression or anti-anxiety medication.

While I would advise against using these things long term, if you're really suffering and having trouble getting by day-to-day, they may be what you need to get over the hump. Whatever you do, don't start hitting the bottle or self-medicating.

Best of luck.


P.S.: Really like the new user name.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

carmen ohio said:


> IDB,
> 
> 
> 
> P.S.: Really like the new user name.


Thank you. I just thought I deserved something a tad more positive than the one when I came here. 

As far as medications I am fine. I am not a big fan of drugs, prescription or otherwise. I figure I am very cognizant of my depression so I can just let my left hemisphere keep it under control. I am just commenting on what it is like and how I now understand why people will so easily try anything to alleviate this terrible pervasive emptiness.

Also, I am an odd person in that I have never liked the taste of alcohol so that is not a problem. Plus I am type 1 diabetic and am very very strict about my diet so even if I liked alcohol I still never would resort to it. 150 carbs a day does not leave any room for luxuries.


----------



## ThePheonix

It like having a medical operation ID. Its painful for awhile but let a little time go by and it'll be a distant memory and the problem is eliminated. A lot of folks have walked the path you're now on and lived to tell about it. You're as good as they are.
In the future, don't get hooked on a chick that needs you less than you need her. With women (or men if you're a girl) you're never going to be holding a royal flush, or at least you won't know it until you're too old to care. Be able to fold, wait for a new hand, and able to walk away if you have to. C'est la vie Dawg.


----------



## turnera

carmen ohio said:


> IDB,
> 
> Have a talk with your GP about your mental state. You may be a candidate for anti-depression or anti-anxiety medication.
> 
> While I would advise against using these things long term, if you're really suffering and having trouble getting by day-to-day, they may be what you need to get over the hump. Whatever you do, don't start hitting the bottle or self-medicating.
> .


Yep. After my mother died suddenly, six months later, I was still not functioning well. My GP gave me 3 months of mild antidepressants and it made a HUGE difference - just made me able to get up and accomplish things and felt hopeful again.


----------



## LongWalk

Your wife thought she was marrying down, probably because she felt she could not get the man she deserved with children in her baggage. This notion lay dormant until your children and step children reached adulthood. She burst out of the chrysalis and dried her wings over the sweaty body of OM. So, your gut, which has told your for some time that there is no come back from this betrayal, is right on.

You will find someone new, Not now but be patient.

Take care of your health.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Well, I have been doing much better of late. My left hemisphere is finally wresting the right into submission so I can actually semi-concentrate on things that matter.

Spent last Wednesday back in Boston. Flew DD4 up from Georgia to hang out with me for the day. Had a blast being coffee tourists after my medical appt. I may be a guinea pig for a 5 year trial for a T1 diabetes vaccine. Then flew back home Thursday morning. DD5 just texted us she got hired with the Washington Bar Assoc as their Spanish Consumer affairs coordinator (not bad for a pollack) whatever that is, she just moved to Seattle last weekend. She has applied to UW Law School for next year. Her minor at Gonzaga was Spanish studies. She spent a year in Grenada last year in immersion classes so she is putting that to good use already. 

Apparently the mediator had our agreement drafted last Thursday but no one informed me of this. I had to file a response to her divorce petition by tomorrow so, for lacking the agreement to file, I just filed a blanket response to avoid default. WW actually contacted me all pissed that I was going back on our agreement. Had to explain to her that, as usual, I was merely reacting to her idiotic actions and it really meant nothing other than covering my ass because I'm sure she and her lawyer were quite well aware and hoping I would not respond w/in the 20 days because of the agreement. 

I hear she is telling everybody I have "stolen" everything from her. I gave her the house ($300K+ w/ less than $100K mortgage) All contents, her business free and clear, and anything else. I keep my woodshop and my business unencumbered. I am also giving her a lump sum payment almost equal to the assets actually in my business. So basically I get my personal things and my business unencumbered and she gets everything else...yet I have stolen everything from her. LOL

The last hurdle is her actually signing but that looks promising. It really does kind of disturb me how quickly I have really lost most feelings for her. Almost like there is something wrong with me for being able to do that so quickly. Then again she has done a bang-up job in giving me plenty of help in doing that herself. I almost feel cold and inhuman for feeling like this in only four months. 

Here is to hoping for a quick end to this painful chapter of my life and a start into the next, (hopefully better) one.


----------



## happyman64

IdSrv



> It really does kind of disturb me how quickly I have really lost most feelings for her. Almost like there is something wrong with me for being able to do that so quickly. Then again she has done a bang-up job in giving me plenty of help in doing that herself. I almost feel cold and inhuman for feeling like this in only four months.


 There is nothing wrong with you.

In fact, I'm surprised you even bother communicating with her at all. 

If a woman used me to get her kids through life, school and then dumped my @ss a month after my last kid graduated from college not only would I feel nothing towards her I would condition myself to act as if she never ever existed in my life.

I would not acknowledge her. I would not ever speak to her again.
If my kids or grandkids spoke about her I would leave the room.

She would be dead to me. Your not there yet. You gave her too much. The house should have been split as well as the cash. Legally it is so.

I did this. Fortunately no kids were involved. People can split the right way by showing kindness and respect to their spouse. It still sucks but it does not have to be painful, in your face drama.

Your wife chose to lie, cheat, force you out of your home and then offer a reconciliation while still having a BF.

After the D you will owe her nothing.

Focus on you. Focus on your health. Focus on your grandkids.

The rest of your life will fall into place. And the next woman in your life better be awesome in every way. You deserve it and I want you to live the best life you can as revenge.

HM


----------



## carmen ohio

IDsrvBetr said:


> . . . I gave her the house ($300K+ w/ less than $100K mortgage) All contents, her business free and clear, and anything else. I keep my woodshop and my business unencumbered. I am also giving her a lump sum payment almost equal to the assets actually in my business. So basically I get my personal things and my business unencumbered and she gets everything else . . .


Why?


----------



## GusPolinski

carmen ohio said:


> Why?


Word.


----------



## Graywolf2

IDsrvBetr said:


> .
> 
> *I hear she is telling everybody I have "stolen" everything from her. *ne.


IDsrvBetr you deserve batter. As other have asked: Why does she deserve all that?

Tell her that you are hearing that you have stolen everything. So the deals off. If the deal is that bad you need to start over out of fairness.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Graywolf2 said:


> IDsrvBetr you deserve batter. As other have asked: Why does she deserve all that?
> 
> Tell her that you are hearing that you have stolen everything. So the deals off. If the deal is that bad you need to start over out of fairness.


Oh I understand everone asking "why". Well, the simplistic answer is that I can always make more money, but I cannot buy back the time and suffering I'd go through in trying to save/keep a few material things. Moving on from this nightmare and getting as far away from her as fast as I can is worth a few hundred thousand dollars. I can make that up by the end of the year. I probably would have only come out less than 100k better but would have cost me quite a bit in expenses and, more importantly, mental anguish. Some things are more important than a few possesions I don't really need anyways. 

Basically I am expediting my recovery and salvaging the vehicle I need to rebuild my life the way I want to now. Trust me, it's a win in my book. The monetary "compensation" I agreed to is really the only thing that annoys the piss out of me but it got the deal done so I am just going to roll with it. On the books my company isn't worth a lot but we both do know that it's actually the most valuable thing we have going into the future. Dismantled it's not worth a lot, intact I will be fine.


----------



## Dyokemm

"There are a lot of other things that basically say the same thing. How cold-hearted and selfish I am so she has no choice but to divorce me."

As far as all the lies, accusations, and bullsh*t coming out of her mouth.

How are you hearing this?

Is she posting these things somewhere or are other people telling you these things/accusing you?

Either way, if anyone, including her, brings it up simply say this:

"I'm sorry you feel that way.....but the simple truth is the reason we are divorcing is because you are a skank who has been f*cking POSOM while married to me.....and I won't tolerate it."


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Dyokemm said:


> "
> 
> Is she posting these things somewhere or are other people telling you these things/accusing you?
> 
> Either way, if anyone, including her, brings it up simply say this:
> 
> "I'm sorry you feel that way.....but the simple truth is the reason we are divorcing is because you are a skank who has been f*cking POSOM while married to me.....and I won't tolerate it."


LOL! That is my response to anything I hear about it. The language isn't quite so crass but the message is plain and clear.

I hear these things through the kids and others when she tries to bs them as well as my office manager who still has to deal with her occasionally.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Well, I'm pretty sure this is not going to be a good weekend for me. Tomorrow is our anniversary. Four months ago the plan was to be leaving today and spending a long weekend in Belize. Instead I am sitting in my hot, stuffy shop having a pity party. Have been dreading this day for several weeks. Been doing very well the last few weeks and wondering how I would be today. Expectations met, the loneliness and regrets are flooding in.


----------



## turnera

meh, it's just a day in the calendar.

Go out and paint the town.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

turnera said:


> meh, it's just a day in the calendar.
> 
> Go out and paint the town.


:yay: :toast: :yay:

Actually I'll be working out of town til Saturday evening.


----------



## turnera

Out of town...even better! What happens in ______ stays in ______.


----------



## happyman64

Try something different.

And do it just for you.

Or you could send a nice message like this "Happy Anniversary [email protected]!"

Just Kidding.

Go have fun.


----------



## happyman64

What a shame you did not go to Belize without her. That would have been an adventure.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

happyman64 said:


> What a shame you did not go to Belize without her. That would have been an adventure.


I actually contemplated it. Unfortunately my jobs are so backed up right now I can't take time off for anything. Turnera is right, so far I'm not fixating on it nearly as bad as I thought I would earlier. 

Two of my girls suggested "It's Friday, find a date". :surprise: 
Don't think that's a very good idea either. lol


----------



## OldWolf57

You don't need to have a date to go out.
Treat yourself to a good dinner and relax.
You just got rid of a wrinkled, stretched marked old skank, who's a whoring **** that will wish she had you when she's older and alone.
While you as a successful bizman, will have your pick of the true younger fruit.

So, let's see. Got money ;/, Got health ;/, Got little blue pill ;/.

Don't sound to bad to me D lol.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

OldWolf57 said:


> You don't need to have a date to go out.
> *Treat yourself to a good dinner and relax.*


Exactly. When I was freshly "single" and before my ex completely stopped caring about our daughter, when she had visitation I would go out by myself even if I didn't have a date or friends available. There's something very satisfying about sitting at a sports bar drinking a beer and having a burger, talking with strangers and just being there in the moment. Some might think that's strange and lonely, but it was cathartic for me.


----------



## happyman64

TheGoodGuy said:


> Exactly. When I was freshly "single" and before my ex completely stopped caring about our daughter, when she had visitation I would go out by myself even if I didn't have a date or friends available. There's something very satisfying about sitting at a sports bar drinking a beer and having a burger, talking with strangers and just being there in the moment. Some might think that's strange and lonely, but it was cathartic for me.


TGG

Not strange at all. Funny that you say that. I think nothing of going to a movie by myself or going out for a burger & beer by myself and socializing with strangers.

My wife and 3 daughters cannot understand it.

I tell them its called being "social".

Then again my women are all too busy with their faces buried in their iphones like the rest of our society.

HM


----------



## turnera

IDsrvBetr said:


> Two of my girls suggested "It's Friday, find a date". :surprise:
> Don't think that's a very good idea either. lol


meetup.com

It's for everyone.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

turnera said:


> meetup.com
> 
> It's for everyone.


I've looked into that. Haven't found anything in my area that really interests me at all. Not a big city so not many options in that area I guess. It's been so long since I've done anything social on my own I am really clueless as to what to do. Not doing too bad though. At least this is my busy time of year and most of my time I am pre-occupied with work related things.


----------



## tech-novelist

IDsrvBetr said:


> Oh I understand everone asking "why". Well, the simplistic answer is that I can always make more money, but I cannot buy back the time and suffering I'd go through in trying to save/keep a few material things. *Moving on from this nightmare and getting as far away from her as fast as I can is worth a few hundred thousand dollars.* I can make that up by the end of the year. I probably would have only come out less than 100k better but would have cost me quite a bit in expenses and, more importantly, mental anguish. Some things are more important than a few possesions I don't really need anyways.
> 
> Basically I am expediting my recovery and salvaging the vehicle I need to rebuild my life the way I want to now. Trust me, it's a win in my book. The monetary "compensation" I agreed to is really the only thing that annoys the piss out of me but it got the deal done so I am just going to roll with it. On the books my company isn't worth a lot but we both do know that it's actually the most valuable thing we have going into the future. Dismantled it's not worth a lot, intact I will be fine.


*That* was exactly my approach in my divorce. There is wisdom in the old saying that "divorce is expensive because it's worth it".


----------



## OldWolf57

My man, if you are comfortable in your own skin, there are lots of thing you can do alone.
Bowling, mini golf, fishing, or even just sitting back relaxing as you chart a new life to meet your needs to a T.

The key,, you have to actively beat down the thoughts that bring you down. You have to beware of them at the first onset, and immediately take control.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Well, D paperwork should be ready to sign and file this week so that is good. I've been doing pretty good with life until yesterday.

This time of year I have jobs backed up and am scrambling to get them done. I have to focus all my efforts and thinking on them or it can be disastrous. Well, I knew I have to get my left shoulder tied back together (rotator cuff. Two severed tendons, bone spurs, arthritis etc) but was hoping to delay it until February when I can relax from jobs. Had appt with my surgeon yesterday morning and he said he absolutely cannot let me delay this. Severed tendons will shrink and retract making re-attachment difficult or impossible.So I am scheduled for Sept 21st. 

This means that I will be pretty much out of it for a week and possible semi-coherent enough to at least go down and supervise jobs the second. Not good for my business right now.

Well, with the divorce, job pressures, all the other things in my life and now this thrown right into the middle of it all I actually broke down in the exam room. It was embarrassing as hell. I couldn't stop it.

The first thing I thought of was I am not prepared to do this. I know the recovery as I had my right one done three years ago. Basically helpless for the first week. I have nowhere to stay for this and no one to take care of me. The only thing I could think about was the only person who knows how to take care of me through this is my stbxww and it just sent me spiralling down. I don't have our comfortable home or her. Between the care, hygiene, the pain killers, blood monitoring and injections (T1 diabetic) She is the only person I have (had) that I can feel comfortable with knowing how to do it all. Now I don't have that and I'm getting very anxious. 

Seems like every time I tackle one issue, another one pops up in front of me and it's getting more and more difficult to control them all. I am extremely good and handling stress and sorting out multiple issues at once but I am scared that if anything else comes up I will, unfortunately, discover this stubborn pollack does have a breaking point. I am scared of finding out what happens to me when I reach it.


----------



## happyman64

You are trying to tell me that out of all of those kids you raised not one of them can assist in your recuperation? 

Not one of them can be relied on to help with your insulin injections post op?

And if they truly are that clueless or you cannot ask your kids for help then hire a private nurse to come in a few times per day to help you.

Screw your STBXW. And the sooner you can start saying that the better off you will be.


----------



## LongWalk

Do your step children contact you at all?


----------



## Cynthia

Usually people can go into a care center for the first week or two. Tell your doctor about this and ask for that. The nurses will take care of you and you can rest.


----------



## turnera

Agreed. There are a lot of people who have no one to babysit them; they arrange for care. And you have almost three weeks to line up some temporary management help to oversee your company for a week or two and report back to you.

That said, I totally understand the feelings you're having. It's devastating to realize 'everything' that you're losing in the relationship. Just remember that you likely won't be single forever, it's just a blip, and you have a better life with a better woman ahead of you.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

happyman64 said:


> You are trying to tell me that out of all of those kids you raised not one of them can assist in your recuperation?
> 
> Not one of them can be relied on to help with your insulin injections post op?



Three daughters here including ww's two. They are all wanting to help and would if I let them. Problem is the oldest already has 5 kids of her own to take care of. Second oldest will help out when she can but she has her kids and school, and the third oldest (my oldest) is the one that is my right-hand man and it is absolutely critical that she be on the jobs running them while I am down. So, yes, they would all gladly help but these are the reasons I won't let them. Doesn't help much that I've always been too proud to ask for help with anything. Never really had to until now and it sucks.

I think what's affecting me most here is the timing of everything. I'm trying to spread things out so I don't have to deal with so much at one time and was hoping to do that here. Seems like every day something else gets added to the mix and it's just mounting on me right now. 

Oldest stepdaughter just mentioned to me possibly staying with her. WW's sister would come over and help her babysit me for the first week. Something will work out by the 21st it looks like. I guess I'm just venting, sorry.


----------



## Cynthia

IDsrvBetr said:


> Oldest stepdaughter just mentioned to me possibly staying with her. WW's sister would come over and help her babysit me for the first week. Something will work out by the 21st it looks like. I guess I'm just venting, sorry.


That will work fine. It's good for the kids to see their mother taking care of you and the importance of that.
Good to vent and process. Set aside your pride and seek to connect with those who love you and want to help you. It will bring you all closer together. It will not diminish you in their eyes.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

CynthiaDe said:


> That will work fine. It's good for the kids to see their mother taking care of you and the importance of that.


I think you may have mis-read Cynthia. I'm sure it will actually piss their mother off (ww) to see her own sister and daughter helping a vile piece of **** like me out when I need it. 

Apparently I am ordered to go recliner shopping this week. I told them if they need to get me a nurse to help in the shower she has to be 40'ish, hot and single. :grin2:


----------



## farsidejunky

Get the recliner. 

They have been in my right shoulder twice. You have no better tool for actual sleep than a recliner when recovering from shoulder surgery.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

farsidejunky said:


> Get the recliner.
> 
> They have been in my right shoulder twice. You have no better tool for actual sleep than a recliner when recovering from shoulder surgery.


Oh I know. Had my right done 3 years ago. Now it's my left so I know What works best. A very comfy recliner is a must. Lots of pain killers for the first week also a must unfortunately.


----------



## farsidejunky

IDsrvBetr said:


> Oh I know. Had my right done 3 years ago. Now it's my left so I know What works best. A very comfy recliner is a must. Lots of pain killers for the first week also a must unfortunately.


Yup.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

One thing people don't think of that is hilarious. Being right-handed I never realized how much one takes that for granted until you have to wipe your ass with your left hand. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Seriously, try it sometime folks. :grin2:


----------



## farsidejunky

IDsrvBetr said:


> One thing people don't think of that is hilarious. Being right-handed I never realized how much one takes that for granted until you have to wipe your ass with your left hand. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Seriously, try it sometime folks. :grin2:


I did...twice... 

Lesson learned: never lay out for a football in an area where the soil is mostly clay...


----------



## IDsrvBetr

farsidejunky said:


> I did...twice...
> 
> Lesson learned: never lay out for a football in an area where the soil is mostly clay...


...or play soccer at 39 like you are still 18, or fall ten feet onto concrete on your side with your arm stretched above your head...

Yeah, they all suck a lil. :surprise:


----------



## 3putt

IDsrvBetr said:


> One thing people don't think of that is hilarious. Being right-handed I never realized how much one takes that for granted until you have to wipe your ass with your left hand. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Seriously, try it sometime folks. :grin2:


LOL

I'm dealing with that same operational issue myself. Index and middle fingers are torn up with some kind of infection. Eating, shaving, writing, wiping, etc. are all a pain in the ass...so to speak!

Damned frustrating.


----------



## Cynthia

IDsrvBetr said:


> I think you may have mis-read Cynthia. I'm sure it will actually piss their mother off (ww) to see her own sister and daughter helping a vile piece of **** like me out when I need it.
> 
> Apparently I am ordered to go recliner shopping this week. I told them if they need to get me a nurse to help in the shower she has to be 40'ish, hot and single. :grin2:


Oh dear! That's not what I meant. I meant your daughter's children will benefit from seeing their mother caring for you. It is good for children to be involved as well. Your daughter is the mother I was referring to.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

CynthiaDe said:


> Oh dear! That's not what I meant. I meant your daughter's children will benefit from seeing their mother caring for you. It is good for children to be involved as well. Your daughter is the mother I was referring to.


That makes more sense. Her and her hubby have been one of my best supports through all of this. 

Only problem with staying there is 18month twins wanting to climb all over papa's lap. :frown2:


----------



## Cynthia

IDsrvBetr said:


> Only problem with staying there is 18month twins wanting to climb all over papa's lap. :frown2:


Now that would be tough. Grandchildren are pretty irresistible.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Well, her attorney has had our mediated agreement since the first and was just supposed to draft the paperwork to sign and file and this is all over. Seems pretty simple and quick. Been over two weeks and have not heard a thing. Emailed her atty twice and no response. I just want this over.

In the meantime, am getting "niced" for lack of a better word, by WW. Texts and phone calls (don't usually answer her calls). It's really kind of funny, sad, and disturbing all at the same time. Throughout all of this she denies any involvement with the guy I told everyone about and says we are getting divorced because I am "unhinged, out of control and spreading lies about her." It's funny that a guy who looks just like him and has the same name has moved into our house just weeks after I left. She can't even wait til the divorce is final. I can't believe she thinks I am so uninformed that I buy her stories about all of this. 

I am not buying any of it but have no intention of being confrontational even though it's difficult at times. I really am rather fascinated at how she is acting and want to see exactly how far she takes this. Often times I soooo want to respond appropriately, especially when she talks about "how hard this all is" and about her having to watch her finances and can't afford this or can't afford that but then I resist because I don't want to spook her. 

This behavior really seems extraordinary to me but am sure, like everything I'm experiencing, it is pretty common. Anyone else go through this glaringly contradictory behavior and how do you respond/deal with it?


----------



## manfromlamancha

OMG - she moved the POSOM into your house (and probably into your marital bed)!!! That is low!

I think you should move back in if you can and make their life miserable! Throw the fvcker out!!!


----------



## carmen ohio

IDsrvBetr said:


> Well, her attorney has had our mediated agreement since the first and was just supposed to draft the paperwork to sign and file and this is all over. Seems pretty simple and quick. Been over two weeks and have not heard a thing. Emailed her atty twice and no response. I just want this over.
> 
> In the meantime, am getting "niced" for lack of a better word, by WW. Texts and phone calls (don't usually answer her calls). It's really kind of funny, sad, and disturbing all at the same time. Throughout all of this she denies any involvement with the guy I told everyone about and says we are getting divorced because I am "unhinged, out of control and spreading lies about her." It's funny that a guy who looks just like him and has the same name has moved into our house just weeks after I left. She can't even wait til the divorce is final. I can't believe she thinks I am so uninformed that I buy her stories about all of this.
> 
> I am not buying any of it but have no intention of being confrontational even though it's difficult at times. I really am rather fascinated at how she is acting and want to see exactly how far she takes this. Often times I soooo want to respond appropriately, especially when she talks about "how hard this all is" and about her having to watch her finances and can't afford this or can't afford that but then I resist because I don't want to spook her.
> 
> *This behavior really seems extraordinary to me but am sure, like everything I'm experiencing, it is pretty common. Anyone else go through this glaringly contradictory behavior and how do you respond/deal with it?*


IDsrvBetr,

Yes, it is very common.

The best way to deal with it is to ignore it.

The question you should be asking yourself is how to move the D along to a conclusion. You're the guy who gave his WW everything she could get in the hope of speeding up the process:



IDsrvBetr said:


> . . . I gave her the house ($300K+ w/ less than $100K mortgage) All contents, her business free and clear, and anything else. I keep my woodshop and my business unencumbered. I am also giving her a lump sum payment almost equal to the assets actually in my business. So basically I get my personal things and my business unencumbered and she gets everything else . . .
> 
> The last hurdle is her actually signing but that looks promising. . . .
> 
> *Here is to hoping for a quick end to this painful chapter of my life *and a start into the next, (hopefully better) one.





IDsrvBetr said:


> Oh I understand everone asking "why". Well, the simplistic answer is that I can always make more money, but I cannot buy back the time and suffering I'd go through in trying to save/keep a few material things. Moving on from this nightmare and getting as far away from her as fast as I can is worth a few hundred thousand dollars. I can make that up by the end of the year. I probably would have only come out less than 100k better but would have cost me quite a bit in expenses and, more importantly, mental anguish. Some things are more important than a few possesions I don't really need anyways.
> 
> Basically I am expediting my recovery and salvaging the vehicle I need to rebuild my life the way I want to now. Trust me, it's a win in my book. The monetary "compensation" I agreed to is really the only thing that annoys the piss out of me but it got the deal done so I am just going to roll with it. On the books my company isn't worth a lot but we both do know that it's actually the most valuable thing we have going into the future. Dismantled it's not worth a lot, intact I will be fine.


That was a rather unconventional negotiating strategy -- unconventional because it rarely works. The usual way to get what you want is to trade for it.

Maybe you need to revisit your strategy.


----------



## turnera

I don't understand. You moved out, she moved OM in, and she then tells everyone that YOU are the problem, AND YOU DO NOTHING?


----------



## IDsrvBetr

turnera said:


> I don't understand. You moved out, she moved OM in, and she then tells everyone that YOU are the problem, AND YOU DO NOTHING?


What am I supposed to do? It's her life. I have already told anybody that matters the truth. I cannot help nor do I care what other people think. Don't they all tell everyone that the BS is the problem? lol That's actually what makes it sickeningly entertaining. She seems to still be on the narrative that I am lying to everyone about all of this. Just a strange coincidence that the guy I exposed her with months ago looks exactly like, and has the same name as the guy currently in our home. Yet she still plays the same tune to everyone she talks to about it.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

carmen ohio said:


> IDsrvBetr,
> 
> 
> That was a rather unconventional negotiating strategy -- unconventional because it rarely works. The usual way to get what you want is to trade for it.
> 
> Maybe you need to revisit your strategy.


I knew there was no way she would agree to anything in mediation without some compensation, deserved or not. It was triple digits up until mediation. She agreed to mid-double digits which really doesn't affect me much in the long run so yes, it was worth it. As far as everything else goes, it's just stuff. Stuff my business made possible and, as long as I have my business I can always get more. Although I love having nice things as much as anyone else does, I don't place a very high priority on them. My mental well-being and happiness are much more important.


----------



## convert

IDsrvBetr said:


> Well, her attorney has had our mediated agreement since the first and was just supposed to draft the paperwork to sign and file and this is all over. Seems pretty simple and quick. Been over two weeks and have not heard a thing. Emailed her atty twice and no response. I just want this over.
> 
> In the meantime, am getting "niced" for lack of a better word, by WW. Texts and phone calls (don't usually answer her calls). It's really kind of funny, sad, and disturbing all at the same time. Throughout all of this she denies any involvement with the guy I told everyone about and says we are getting divorced because I am "unhinged, out of control and spreading lies about her." It's funny that a guy who looks just like him and has the same name has moved into our house just weeks after I left. She can't even wait til the divorce is final. I can't believe she thinks I am so uninformed that I buy her stories about all of this.
> 
> I am not buying any of it but have no intention of being confrontational even though it's difficult at times. I really am rather fascinated at how she is acting and want to see exactly how far she takes this. Often times I soooo want to respond appropriately, especially when she talks about "how hard this all is" and about her having to watch her finances and can't afford this or can't afford that but then I resist because I don't want to spook her.
> 
> This behavior really seems extraordinary to me but am sure, like everything I'm experiencing, it is pretty common. Anyone else go through this glaringly contradictory behavior and how do you respond/deal with it?


The next time she calls you have a young unfamiliar female voice answer the call on you phone. Maybe have the female voice say "who the hell is this that keeps calling my boyfriend" and hang up.>

Yes, yes, i know it sounds childish, but it would probably work on your EXWW to get under her skin, maybe even make her back off


----------



## turnera

Waa waa waah.

Grow up and do what a grownup man does.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

turnera said:


> Waa waa waah.
> 
> Grow up and do what a grownup man does.


Really not understanding this. Could you explain what this is about?


----------



## convert

IDsrvBetr said:


> Really not understanding this. Could you explain what this is about?


Probably meant for me and my last post. 

The suggestion is chlidish:grin2:


----------



## happyman64

IDsrv

Good luck on your surgery coming up. Next week I believe.

As far as your STBXW why not ignore her texts and ignore her calls.

She is a liar. She paints you as the crazy one. Normally I say ignore her.

But if you really want to put her nonsense to bed just send a PI out for one day to photograph the OM living in your house.

Send a few pics to her, let them know they came from a PI and that you are sending them to the kids "if" she does not stop bad mouthing you.

The call is yours. I think she is a very crappy person and you need to distance yourself from her forever.

I will also tell you that you will not have much trouble replacing her because she is from the bottom of the barrel.

HM


----------



## IDsrvBetr

happyman64 said:


> IDsrv
> The call is yours. I think she is a very crappy person and you need to distance yourself from her forever.
> 
> I will also tell you that you will not have much trouble replacing her because she is from the bottom of the barrel.
> 
> HM


Just wanted to update before I can't for a while. Surgery is scheduled for tomorrow morning and won't be too coherent for three or four days afterwards.Been scrambling to get things in order. 

Job-wise I think we have it handled. Daughter has been doing great on this end. Not many 27 yr old girls can personally run two major commercial roofing projects simultaneously. She will be wrapping one up, continuing progress on the main one, and craning another one scheduled for delivery on Saturday. Fingers crossed.

Just bought a new Jayco 5th wheel and will be living in it for my recovery and then hauling it to the job as soon as I am able. Nat'l Guard agreed to let me set it up inside the property and live in it so I can be onsite to at least supervise when I'm off the morphine and pain killers (hopefully can do that sometime next week). I was a bit surprised because the gov't is usually a bit of a stickler when it comes to POV and civilians camping in their secured areas. lol They are considering it my $70K job shack. 

Personal life I am finding most interesting. I have been testing the waters in dating and am finding it can be very tedious but has also been quite enjoyable too. Have met and gone out with 4 lovely women and had good times to one degree or another. One of them was great but, unfortunately, very untruthful in a few major issues and, as you could imagine, this is at the top of my list of deal-breakers. 

One is the director of operations for a major non-profit. Have gone out twice and had a blast. She is about as liberal as I am conservative and we both agree there is no LTR possibilities but we do have a lot of fun together and the conversations are very intriguing at times and we want to do it some more. 

The other two I really have to watch myself because they are both fantastic and I don't want to rush into anything or do anything I'll regret soon enough. I'm trying to just keep everything on a companion level but sometimes they make it difficult.
I am finding I am not the washed-up old has been I thought I was a few months ago. 

Now a 5th one has come onto the scene and everything has changed. I'm pretty sure this one will be what the next update is about. Doesn't really matter for now as everything is on hold for several weeks after tomorrow. Not going to be much going on while my arm is strapped to my side for the next six weeks and unable to move it. 

Sorry to be even longer here but I just want to say how much I have appreciated this forum and everyone on here. You all have been such a major aid for me over the last months through all of this and I thank you for that.


----------



## farsidejunky

I hope the surgery goes well, brother.

Don't take the hydros longer than necessary.

And yes, the Guard letting you set up the trailer on the property was really unusual.


----------



## happyman64

Good luck tomorrow and heal.

It is great when you can rely on family to get the jobs done.

HM


----------



## IDsrvBetr

farsidejunky said:


> I hope the surgery goes well, brother.
> 
> Don't take the hydros longer than necessary.
> 
> And yes, the Guard letting you set up the trailer on the property was really unusual.


Oh I hate taking any of this stuff for any longer than necessary. I just know that it is a must-have for the first week. After that I see how much pain I can handle and go from there. I don't think I've ever used up an entire prescription of pain killers for anything.


----------



## IDsrvBetr

IDsrvBetr said:


> I'm trying to just keep everything on a companion level but sometimes they make it difficult.
> I am finding I am not the washed-up old has been I thought I was a few months ago.
> 
> *Now a 5th one has come onto the scene and everything has changed. I'm pretty sure this one will be what the next update is about.* Doesn't really matter for now as everything is on hold for several weeks after tomorrow. Not going to be much going on while my arm is strapped to my side for the next six weeks and unable to move it.
> 
> Sorry to be even longer here but I just want to say how much I have appreciated this forum and everyone on here. You all have been such a major aid for me over the last months through all of this and I thank you for that.


As promised, here is the latest update:

Surgery went smooth and recovery is also going well. Got off the morphine after three days and the hydros the following. I start intense PT on Monday and will also finally get back onto jobsites then so things are going to be very hectic and busy in the near future for me. Daughter did a great job of keeping things moving the best we could but they are now backed up and we have to get caught up before weather starts hampering us too terribly . It will be so nice getting out and being able to get back to it, even if it is still extremely limited.

As I highlighted in my quote above, there is another woman and this update is about her. 

That other woman is my WW and we are attempting reconciliation. 
Yes, she has made horrible decisions 
Yes, she has done horrible things to me
Yes, she has pretty much destroyed life as we know it for me as well as our children

From what I gather based on reading story after story the last several months, she has gone far far above and beyond the pale in her damaging and hurtful actions compared to others. Any single one of these actions is more than enough to justify running fast and never looking back. Despite all of this and because of recently transpiring events I choose not to. 

Yes, I know you are all going to say I am crazy but I still think it is worth it.

I am quite well-aware that this goes against all statistics, conventional wisdom and logic, but I still believe it is the right thing to do for me. Of course emotion plays a part of this decision but I am a person who makes decisions based on logic rather than emotion so trust me that this is not some in-the-moment decision I have made here. 

There is a lot I am going to have to get over here but I believe a proper foundation has been laid to move forward with this and we intend to rebuild on that foundation. I know the odds are against us but I've never been one to back down from a challenge. Wish us luck!

I plan on expounding on what has happened to bring this about and updating periodically but even simple things like typing on this keyboard are pretty exhausting right now so I will just leave it at this for now.


----------



## aine

IDB, I hope you are healing nicely and yes your 5th woman is a bit of a surprise! I hope that this is not a false R or your exww wanting you because other women do. I wish you all the best and take care of you first.


----------



## happyman64

IDSrv

You are a big boy. If you still love her and feel you want to re open that door that is your decision to make.

Just keep your eyes and ears open. Because you are right about one thing.

Your wife went way over the top to be hurtful and vindictive IMHO.

She didn't just lie and cheat. SHe forced you out of the home while sick, offered a false R and painted a very bad picture of you to others.

And make sure she is not getting back with you because you are prime USDA beef that is popular with some new ladies in the meat section if you know what I mean.

Rest. Recover. And verify if she is truly remorseful. We both know she needs a good shrink.

Glad you are recovering and ready to do a little work.

HM


----------



## bandit.45

It's your life man. Just watch her like a hawk. For...like the rest of your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## IDsrvBetr

Of course you both bring up some very valid observations and concerns and I have taken those as well as more into consideration in my decision. Talking to my therapist about it I decided that at least I am going into this eyes wide open so I am aware of and somewhat prepared for whatever the possible outcome.

I think the other women does play some role in this. Yes, she has brought it up in discussions and seems disturbed by it. I look at that as a positive thing that I should quietly appreciate, not something to openly gloat about as some kind of ploy or trick. I have no reason to apologize and she is aware she has absolutely no right to criticize. 

Being as I had not seen her much less talked to her for over two months other than mediation, this is the last thing I expected. There have been a number of odd and seemingly unrelated events that seem to have come together to get to this point and I decided not to ignore it. I am trying to be very deliberate in this and am trying to balance my actions. So far things are very positive but right now I am cautious to see if this is a cycle or a true change on her part. The most difficult thing right now is her wanting to rush things and my refusal to move at a pace I am not comfortable with. Both positions are understandable to me and it does come up quite often. 

Staying optimistic with a measured caution on the side.


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## Chaparral

Are you hallucinating on pain meds?

Seriously, its not uncommon at all. What is uncommon is that you will get over it. It took me two years. Things were never the same, never quite right and a certain spark was just missing.

Good luck, it will be interesting to see what happened. I guess all her lying couldn't convince her self that you were the goblin and her other man wasn't really a frog.


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## Chaparral

To be clear, two years later, I was done.

Reconciliation takes two to five years to accomplish. You have to be very strong and patient. You also have to trust but verify everything.


----------



## G.J.

So....the POSOM didn't want her then ?


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## turnera

So you have the passwords to all her electronics? And she,hands them over willingly to check?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Some guys have to learn th hard way. I was one of those guys. But I hope things turn out differently for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

IDsrvBetr said:


> As promised, here is the latest update:
> 
> Surgery went smooth and recovery is also going well. Got off the morphine after three days and the hydros the following. I start intense PT on Monday and will also finally get back onto jobsites then so things are going to be very hectic and busy in the near future for me. Daughter did a great job of keeping things moving the best we could but they are now backed up and we have to get caught up before weather starts hampering us too terribly . It will be so nice getting out and being able to get back to it, even if it is still extremely limited.
> 
> *As I highlighted in my quote above, there is another woman and this update is about her. *
> 
> *That other woman is my WW and we are attempting reconciliation.
> Yes, she has made horrible decisions
> Yes, she has done horrible things to me
> Yes, she has pretty much destroyed life as we know it for me as well as our children*
> 
> From what I gather based on reading story after story the last several months, she has gone far far above and beyond the pale in her damaging and hurtful actions compared to others. Any single one of these actions is more than enough to justify running fast and never looking back. Despite all of this and because of recently transpiring events I choose not to.
> 
> Yes, I know *you are all going to say I am crazy* but I still think it is worth it.
> 
> I am quite well-aware that this goes against all statistics, conventional wisdom and logic, but I still believe it is the right thing to do for me. Of course emotion plays a part of this decision but I am a person who makes decisions based on logic rather than emotion so trust me that this is not some in-the-moment decision I have made here.
> 
> There is a lot I am going to have to get over here but I believe a proper foundation has been laid to move forward with this and we intend to rebuild on that foundation. I know the odds are against us but I've never been one to back down from a challenge. Wish us luck!
> 
> I plan on expounding on what has happened to bring this about and updating periodically but even simple things like typing on this keyboard are pretty exhausting right now so I will just leave it at this for now.


Yep. I guess you don't "deserve better" after all.

Good luck.

Oh, and insist on a post-nup.


----------



## GusPolinski

IDsrvBetr said:


> Of course you both bring up some very valid observations and concerns and I have taken those as well as more into consideration in my decision. Talking to my therapist about it I decided that at least I am going into this eyes wide open so I am aware of and somewhat prepared for whatever the possible outcome.
> 
> I think the other women does play some role in this. Yes, she has brought it up in discussions and seems disturbed by it. I look at that as a positive thing that I should quietly appreciate, not something to openly gloat about as some kind of ploy or trick. I have no reason to apologize and she is aware she has absolutely no right to criticize.
> 
> Being as I had not seen her much less talked to her for over two months other than mediation, this is the last thing I expected. There have been a number of odd and seemingly unrelated events that seem to have come together to get to this point and I decided not to ignore it. I am trying to be very deliberate in this and am trying to balance my actions. So far things are very positive but right now I am cautious to see if this is a cycle or a true change on her part. The most difficult thing right now is her wanting to rush things and my refusal to move at a pace I am not comfortable with. Both positions are understandable to me and it does come up quite often.
> 
> Staying optimistic with a measured caution on the side.


Sooo... the only reason that she suddenly wants to reconcile is that other women are sniffing around? And you're OK w/ that?

Is that enough for you?

Is OM still in the picture at all?


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## carmen ohio

IDsrvBetr said:


> As promised, here is the latest update . . .
> 
> That other woman is my WW and we are attempting reconciliation . . .
> 
> I know the odds are against us but I've never been one to back down from a challenge. Wish us luck! . . .


IDsrvBetr,

Like most, I'm skeptical that things will work out well for you. Nevertheless, I wish you luck.

If the two of you do make it, it will be quite an achievement. I hope you let us know from time-to-time how you are doing.


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## IDsrvBetr

Okay, let me try to pull these darts out of my skin and try to answer the questions and comments on each one. 

She broke it off with OM. He kept trying to contact her and I saw it all. Short of an RO, called friends in sheriff's office to see if they could do anything about it. Have not seen any contact from him since.

The first conversation we had she was extremely remorseful and I never expected to hear and see what she had to say ever. Since then her actions have matched her words. Yes, of course I am skeptical and knew that one distinct possibility is that I am plan B. I have made that clear but am willing to be proven wrong.

Turns out she has been seeing a highly respected therapist regularly and has come to respect her and rely on her. From what I have seen and heard she has had a tremendous impact on my WW. 

All the things a BS would want and demand from our WS she did and said up front, I didn't really have to sit down and say "okay, here is what I need..." . From the start she turned over full access to any electronics and social media. She has also cut any contact with anyone remotely associated with him as well. I made it clear that she has absolutely no reason to ever go down to the river again without me...ever. We have been able to discuss my issues and concerns big and small both privately and with the MC. Not all of it has gone smoothly but we have both been able to compartmentalize issues and not let one disagreement stop us from communication on other things.

The day after that meeting the final divorce decree did finally come from the lawyers. She obviously wants to dismiss everything and it upsets her that I won't yet. I have the decree in-hand from her. If I ever choose all I have to do is sign it and file with the courts. Three days later we are divorced. By Oct 15th I have to decide whether to dismiss, delay or file it. Right now I intend to file for a delay. We have discussed a post-nup separating my company in the future. I do have a lawyer looking into this but don't know how strong a PN it will be as the business evolves in the future. 

I refuse to move back into HER house. After what she did I just can't and she knows it. You'd think something like that would be petty but I have found that this is a huge thing for me no matter how I try to convince myself otherwise, so I just choose not to try to convince myself of that. It just triggers all kinds of unwanted emotions even thinking about moving back there. I am currently looking at a few properties to build my new shop and home about 10 miles from there. One I really like I am hoping to put an offer in on shortly. I was already doing this as part of my moving on prior to this anyways.

As for the rest:
No, I have made sure that pain meds have played no role in my thinking
Yes, I have an understanding of the possible motives here and am leaning towards the positive but quite well-aware of the others.
We both know that what she has done this past year has pretty much destroyed everything we have spent the last 12 years building and there is really no logical or rational reasoning for anyone to get passed it. I look at our lives together as whole and do also see those passed 12 years and all the positive we did together and decided that is worth seeing if I can get passed this. 

No one can really make strangers understand their reasoning in private relationships. I know, just like many of you know, that logically this makes no sense. But many of you also know that logic really plays a very minor role in our decisions when it comes to relationships. Like I said earlier, I am doing this with my eyes wide open. 

Keep the skepticism coming please and I would like to keep posting if that is okay.


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## GusPolinski

So why not divorce and _then_ reconcile?


----------



## convert

GusPolinski said:


> So why not divorce and _then_ reconcile?


This is a good point.

she should be ok with it, after all sounds like she got a pretty good deal in the divorce.

at least tell me you had fun with any one of the other four women>


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## Roselyn

Go through with the divorce. You can live together if you wish to continue with your reconciliation. I truly believe that your wife will repeat her cheating behaviors. She cheated on her first husband and cheated on you. You have a serial cheater in your hands. Best of luck to you...


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## IDsrvBetr

GusPolinski said:


> So why not divorce and _then_ reconcile?


I agree. That is where I was when this started and that is where I am still at right now. It does make complete sense. I am delaying it for now as a compromise in MC. I know it sounds stupid to some of you but I view that as a failure and quitting. Nothing wrong with delaying it for now until I am more comfortable in whatever decision I choose. Obviously she wants to just dismiss the divorce but she knows and I know she has no right to have any input in my decision.

I want to make sure my decision is based on what I want and nothing else.


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## carmen ohio

convert said:


> This is a good point.
> 
> she should be ok with it, after all sounds like she got a pretty good deal in the divorce.
> 
> at least tell me you had fun with any one of the other four women>


If his WW is truly remorseful, he should be able to negotiate a more equitable deal now.

Another advantage to Gus's suggestion (divorce now, reconcile later) is that it puts the OP back in charge of his financial situation and protects his future financial gains.

Given how she raked him over the coals before her _"epiphany,"_ I would think this should be one of his main requirements for reconciliation.


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## happy as a clam

I've been away from this thread for awhile. I read the last few pages to catch up, and have to say that I am absolutely STUNNED that you are delaying the divorce after everything she has put you through.

So stunned, in fact, that I had to go back to the very first post and re-read to make sure I was on the right thread.

If you want to reconcile, that's your right. But please go through with the divorce. Make her EARN you back and prove herself. And if it doesn't work out, you are already free.

(Perhaps this is all just a setup to position herself better financially (as in cleaning out joint accounts, transferring funds) when she finally does divorce you.)

I am absolutely shaking my head... but nevertheless wish you well.


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## farsidejunky

Let the divorce go through and date her. 

It is all too fishy and convenient.


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## G.J.

After thinking about this I would go along with a few others and proceed with the D and then R

Yes it will cost money BUT it allows YOU to start over knowing the old marriage was trashed and importantly for her 
that if she ever as much as thinks of walking down the old path you wouldn't hesitate to pull the plug for good next time

Added bonus - will flush out how strongly she wants to be with you


----------



## turnera

IDsrvBetr said:


> I agree. That is where I was when this started and that is where I am still at right now. It does make complete sense. I am delaying it for now as a compromise in MC. I know it sounds stupid to some of you but I view that as a failure and quitting. Nothing wrong with delaying it for now until I am more comfortable in whatever decision I choose. Obviously she wants to just dismiss the divorce but she knows and I know she has no right to have any input in my decision.
> 
> I want to make sure my decision is based on what I want and nothing else.


Two things. First, if you divorce, you two are welcome to date and IF you decide to remarry, she will have to sign a PREnup, which from what I understand is much stronger in court than a postnup. That way, you go into it with eyes wide open AND you're protected AND if she screws up again (and half of them do), she simply disappears.

Second, finalizing the divorce is probably THE single most important step a BS can take in terms of making a WS understand - no more. Just dating her again has already taken you down a couple pegs in terms of her respect for you, whether she OR you want it to happen or not. It's just basic psychology. 'Wow, I really might lose him.' In my 15+ years of doing this, I've never seen ANYTHING work better for stopping future cheating than the divorce. Those couples who do end up reconciling, even re-marrying, have a MUCH better chance of staying together without future cheating than those who just drop the divorce and keep dating. Basic psychology. "I am too valuable to just say ok, let's start over. I WILL protect myself from you."


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## IDsrvBetr

turnera said:


> Two things. First, if you divorce, you two are welcome to date and IF you decide to remarry, she will have to sign a PREnup, which from what I understand is much stronger in court than a postnup. That way, you go into it with eyes wide open AND you're protected AND if she screws up again (and half of them do), she simply disappears.
> 
> Second, finalizing the divorce is probably THE single most important step a BS can take in terms of making a WS understand - no more. Just dating her again has already taken you down a couple pegs in terms of her respect for you, whether she OR you want it to happen or not. It's just basic psychology. 'Wow, I really might lose him.' In my 15+ years of doing this, I've never seen ANYTHING work better for stopping future cheating than the divorce. Those couples who do end up reconciling, even re-marrying, have a MUCH better chance of staying together without future cheating than those who just drop the divorce and keep dating. Basic psychology. "I am too valuable to just say ok, let's start over. I WILL protect myself from you."


Turnera you have pretty much summed it all up for me here. I don't see too many compelling reasons not to go this route. Like I said, it is not off the table, merely on hold to give me time to look at everything.


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## happyman64

I think putting n hold is a good thing for you.

It allows you to get your head in a better place and allows her to see that you are not a pushover an ready to jump back into the marriage after her crappy and hurtful behavior. Judge her by her actions. Not her words.

But I also think the best news you shared is that your wife has a great therapist.

She needed that professional help. For many reasons.....

So how have her actions toward you, herself and the kids been since this recent turn of events?

HM


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## badmemory

If you've really made the decision to R, I'm going to go against the grain a little bit here, and suggest that you talk to your attorney and accountant first.

Ask your attorney how long you can keep the divorce action "pending", without losing the ability to complete it at a moment's notice. I would use that period of time to your full advantage to help you decide what to do next - based on how you judge her remorse.

Then talk to your accountant about the tax implications of a delayed divorce versus immediate divorce and possible re-marriage.

Just my two cents.


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## GusPolinski

At an absolute minimum: post-nup.

Ideal: divorce and then reconcile. Or just divorce.


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## Be smart

I just read your thread and you are a good guy but why you let your wife to walk all over you and now you are delaying D papers 

How can you forget and forgive so easily all the things she done to you ?

Divorce her and be happy,there is somewhere woman that will respect you for who you are.


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## Cynthia

turnera said:


> "I am too valuable to just say ok, let's start over. I WILL protect myself from you."


This and tell her that she needs to change the terms of the divorce to favor you. If she is unwilling to do that, she is not really serious, then permanently cut her lose. If she is, then there is hope.


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## Chaparral

What happened to her boyfriend? Why has she had such a sudden change of heart?

Has she given you any reasons she treated you like she did and suddenly changed her mind?

Did he dump her?


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## dental

Plan B in action.


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## IDsrvBetr

Hello All,

Been meaning to post an update of late but life has been keeping me quite busy. Rather than write a novel filled with details you don't care to read about I think I will just try a brief, general update and respond to anything anyone is specifically interested in.

Although it defied all logic and rationale, I do believe I did make the right decision in allowing reconciliation. After all, she came to me of her own volition and exhibited all the things everyone here says must be shown and done before one can consider it genuine remorse. Since then, together we have been working through and past everything and, honestly, we've never been closer or happier. I'm still messed up but, other than occasional triggers or memories bubbling to the surface, I manage to not let it affect everyday life or my thoughts of the future. This specific time-frame is kind of difficult since one year ago my life was a completely different story. 

She has been seeing her therapist regularly and we have both gotten a lot of support from our church. We have been busy with us, our businesses and family and enjoying doing it all together. Last Saturday our youngest daughter got married. That was a headache for the last three months or so but the wedding turned out great and I'm so glad that's over. I've got a very busy season ahead of me but at least, unlike last year, I can focus a lot better on it so I'm looking forward to the challenge. 
One little twist on that. While I was going through this hell last year my office manager was taking full advantage of it. She was embezzling from me the whole time. So, of the two closest women in my life at the time, one was destroying me personally and mentally, and the other was stealing everything she could while I was distracted. So far the detectives have documented over $80K. I am just way too trusting of a person I guess. 

Anyways, I just want to say that everyone is different and outcomes aren't always the same. I knew the odds of this being the outcome for me were remote at best but I made an educated decision based, in no small part, on information I gathered from this site and from you people, as well as other factors and I am confident it was the right choice for me. We are both very happy together and looking forward to a happy future together. Still a lot of healing of the past to get through but it is going well. 

I really want to say thank you to this site and the members here for their support and advice during the worst time of my life. All of your words, positive and negative, your support and your skepticism, were an immeasurable benefit to me while going through that hell.


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## happyman64

Good update idserv.

Nail your office manager and stay on top of your spouse to continue to get professional counseling.


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## Thound

happyman64 said:


> Good update idserv.
> 
> Nail your office manager and stay on top of your spouse to continue to get professional counseling.


And have her prosecuted.


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## GusPolinski

You've made -- and are making -- a huge mistake.

That said, best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Be smart

I wouldnt call this a great update. 

You just screwed your life even more my friend. You are going to get hurt even more and you have no one to blame but yourself.

Best wishes to you.


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## Cynthia

I do not want to discourage you, so I won't.

I hope that your wife:
Has remarkable success with her therapy. 
Has a deep, lasting change of heart.
That she is a woman of honor and integrity who you will be able to truth until death does you two part.

I hope that you:
Are loved and honored.
That you will know when to trust your wife when she is trustworthy.
That you will grow old and happy with your loving, faithful wife at your side.

Thanks for the update.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I would have passed, made another suit trump and hoped at least one of the bowers was buried or in my partner's hand...


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## niceguy28

Good luck. Make sure you are looking at this with the proper amount of discernment. How do you know that she won't decide to kick you to the curb again?


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## IDsrvBetr

GusPolinski said:


> You've made -- and are making -- a huge mistake.
> 
> That said, best of luck to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've got to assume this comment is based solely on statistics which I know are against me. Unfortunately most people don't make relationship decisions based on statistics. It's not a stock trade or sports bet. Percentages by definition are two sides to any equation. There has to be one side in order to have the other or it's an absolute, not a percentage and human nature is anything but absolute. I'm aware of my position in that equation.

I did not make this decision blindly and if I am wrong I only have myself to blame and am already prepared to accept that. In the meantime, so far things are beyond my expectations of what a marriage should be. I've still got a lot of healing to get through but she is very intuitive and understanding about it and actually helps me through it. 

Time will tell but to this point things are very good in my life. I just thought maybe people here were interested in how things work out with different scenarios and relationships.


----------



## turnera

IDsrvBetr said:


> I've got to assume this comment is based solely on statistics which I know are against me. Unfortunately most people don't make relationship decisions based on statistics. It's not a stock trade or sports bet. Percentages by definition are two sides to any equation. There has to be one side in order to have the other or it's an absolute, not a percentage and human nature is anything but absolute. I'm aware of my position in that equation.
> 
> I did not make this decision blindly and if I am wrong I only have myself to blame and am already prepared to accept that. In the meantime, so far things are beyond my expectations of what a marriage should be. I've still got a lot of healing to get through but she is very intuitive and understanding about it and actually helps me through it.
> 
> Time will tell but to this point things are very good in my life. I just thought maybe people here were interested in how things work out with different scenarios and relationships.


What does she tell you about what she's learned and why she's changed and is now a good partner?


----------



## GusPolinski

IDsrvBetr said:


> ...this comment is based... on statistics...


...and reinforced by information gleaned from your wife's past behavior.

Please don't misunderstand me -- I don't want things to not work out for you. It's just that I realize that they likely won't.

So I guess just don't forget to do the dishes, mow the lawn, or whatever.

And definitely don't get sick.

Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## becareful

I have heard of truly remorseful wayward wives who didn't do half of the things your wife did to you, and they didn't even get a second chance, although they should have. Your wife not only smeared your reputation, she also moved her lover into your home and slept in your marital bed. That was beyond cruel. Now that she's had her fun, she's back to her safe Plan B. In what way has she shown her remorse? Is the therapist that she has been seeing a former wayward wife, too?


----------



## IDsrvBetr

becareful said:


> I have heard of truly remorseful wayward wives who didn't do half of the things your wife did to you, and they didn't even get a second chance, although they should have. Your wife not only smeared your reputation, she also moved her lover into your home and slept in your marital bed. That was beyond cruel. Now that she's had her fun, she's back to her safe Plan B. In what way has she shown her remorse? Is the therapist that she has been seeing a former wayward wife, too?


Yes, she did do all those things, and yes they have had the impact on me that you all can imagine. That is by far the hardest thing for me to get through somehow but I have learned to compartmentalize these issues so they have as little effect on the future as possible. She is also very aware of what she did and what it did to me and, as I said above, is very intuitive in seeing when it is affecting me and is very compassionate and careful in helping me through it. Materially, the bed is gone, that house is on the market and I am in the process of beginning construction on my own style of house. A lot of steel, glass and concrete with wood accents. These material things may seem petty to some but it is necessary in my mind. 

What has she for me to choose this path? Numerous things influenced my decision in different areas and I can't list everything here I'm sure. It would be an extremely long post if I went into everything. 
I believe I mentioned the initial encounter last year and how she acted. Basically everything people on here say one needs to see in order to even consider the possibility it is genuine and sincere. I did nothing to solicit it and she came of her own volition to tell me. For my own reassurance I later was told by a very reliable source that her therapist believed it was genuinely her and not some ploy. (btw, no, she has a very well-respected therapist in this area)
In the time that followed I had to input very little into conditions of my agreeing to even consider reconciliation. She was very open and honest about everything. She said she would answer any questions I had no matter what. She hesitated on some as can be expected but did answer in detail (sometimes too much). I know that took a lot of courage and was very difficult for her, but she did it. 
She made me aware of and gave me full access to all social and electronics. 
She completely cut off all ties with those toxic friends I lovingly refer to as the river rats on here and has since never given me any reason to believe she regrets that or longs for it. 
There are places and areas she is not allowed to go without me. Most of these she volunteered to me before I even mentioned them. Others she put on the list I wasn't even aware of. 
Has pretty much stopped drinking. She always makes it a point to ask me if it's okay if she has a drink before she does. (I don't like alcohol)

We had alot of couples therapy at first and, when we one of us feels the need, we schedule a session. In the meantime, outside of therapy we are able to and do have open and honest discussions about everything. Sometimes she initiates it and sometimes I do. 

There is much more but I think I'm running out of ink. 

I am quite well aware this road I chose defies all logic and rational thinking. If you know what INTP is you will understand why it would take a tremendous amount of compelling reasons for me to even consider making such a seemingly illogical and irrational decision as I have in this relationship. But I will say it again, at this time I am very happy and very comfortable in that decision. 

And Gus, I didn't misunderstand you and I'm not trying to be antagonistic with you. I was just pointing out that such a blunt and blanket comment is not accurate when it comes to dealing with human nature and their relationships. Remember there are always exceptions to every rule, I have just chosen to see if we are one of those exceptions.

...and I don't do dishes!


----------



## becareful

She did xyz like turning over passwords to electronic devices and social media accounts, etc.. Sounds like her therapist got that list off of this site or sites like Surviving Infidelity, but was there a heartfelt apology, a beg for forgiveness? Has she apologized to your children and ask for their forgiveness at the very least? What changed her mind? Did your wife correct the lies she made about you to others?


----------



## IDsrvBetr

becareful said:


> She did xyz like turning over passwords to electronic devices and social media accounts, etc.. Sounds like her therapist got that list off of this site or sites like Surviving Infidelity, but was there a heartfelt apology, a beg for forgiveness? Has she apologized to your children and ask for their forgiveness at the very least? What changed her mind? Did your wife correct the lies she made about you to others?


Actually yes to all of that and so far she has given me no reason to believe it wasn't genuine.


----------



## turnera

I have only one suggestion for you, then - tell her you are divorcing and you will start dating again and, if you ever choose to remarry, you will do so only with a prenup. Go from there.

If she balks at that, ask yourself why.


----------



## *Deidre*

The scary thing that I've noted in reading this, is the ease of which she lied to you, and would text you and the other guy at the same time. No emotion. Very at ease with deceiving. Why do you want to reconcile with a narcissist, I guess is my question. You're married to a narcissist, and unless the counselor is adept in working with narcissistic relationships, then I can't see things changing. You are what is known as an empath, and narcissists gravitate towards empaths. Please study this a bit, as it will give you some better insight into yourself, and what type of relationship you're actually in. Narcissists rarely if ever, change their ways. Good luck, either way.


----------



## GusPolinski

IDsrvBetr said:


> Actually yes to all of that and so far she has given me no reason to believe it wasn't genuine.


OK, so dial things up a bit.

Use this as your template...



turnera said:


> I have only one suggestion for you, then - tell her you are divorcing and you will start dating again and, if you ever choose to remarry, you will do so only with a prenup. Go from there.
> 
> If she balks at that, ask yourself why.


...while keeping this in mind...



*Deidre* said:


> The scary thing that I've noted in reading this, is the ease of which she lied to you, and would text you and the other guy at the same time. No emotion. Very at ease with deceiving. Why do you want to reconcile with a narcissist, I guess is my question. You're married to a narcissist, and unless the counselor is adept in working with narcissistic relationships, then I can't see things changing. You are what is known as an empath, and narcissists gravitate towards empaths. Please study this a bit, as it will give you some better insight into yourself, and what type of relationship you're actually in. Narcissists rarely if ever, change their ways. Good luck, either way.


And no worries, sir -- we're good. I just want you to get over whatever initial relief that you likely felt at having your wife (seemingly) return to the marriage, exhale, take off the "wife goggles", and realize that each of the details inherent to your situation amount to variables that, when properly applied to the overall equation, will likely lead to a product that will have you well within the most oft-observed results and NOT, unfortunately, an exception to the rule.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## IDsrvBetr

GusPolinski said:


> each of the details inherent to your situation amount to variables that, when properly applied to the overall equation, will likely lead to a product that will have you well within the most oft-observed results and NOT, unfortunately, an exception to the rule.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm under no dillusions here Gus, already took all this into account when I made this choice. I know what I am risking. I've never been one to shirk personal responsibility. If this does not work out I know I've no one to blame but myself for whatever position I am in. 

And if you all would note the timeline here, how we start over is not relevant at this point since we have been in this reconciliation since September. I figured we were far enough into it now to come on here and let people know how it and I was doing.


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## jim123

Wow,

It is your life. I hope you are in IC, I am not trying to be mean.

She not only cheated she tried (maybe succeeded) to destroy you. We have seen our share a cheating but she took it to the next level in the other things she said and did. How did she explain that all away?

My concern is how quickly you put up the white flag. She only had to say sorry.


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## bankshot1993

IDsrvBetr said:


> I'm under no dillusions here Gus, already took all this into account when I made this choice. I know what I am risking. I've never been one to shirk personal responsibility. If this does not work out I know I've no one to blame but myself for whatever position I am in.
> 
> And if you all would note the timeline here, how we start over is not relevant at this point since we have been in this reconciliation since September. I figured we were far enough into it now to come on here and let people know how it and I was doing.



Well I wish you luck and I hope for your sake you end up happy out of all this. I'm usually the one that routes for R but will admit I can see that in some cases I don't see it as an option, this case is one that I would have said this about.

Remember R can take years so don't put your head in the sand now thinking the tough part is over because honestly it is just starting. 

Just to satisfy my own morbid curiosity I have to ask. Seeing as you said she has done everything a remorseful WW needs to I assume that includes full disclosure and admission of the affair despite the fact she told everybody that you were nuts and it was all you. What was the reaction of other people when she finally made the admission that she was screwing around, you weren't nuts and it was all her?

Also as a second point of curiosity, what changed/ happened that made her come back? You said she sent the OM packing, was that before she started to try to get back with you or was it after? Did she just suddenly come to understand he was nuts and then realized what she threw away for him?


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