# How do I fix this?



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

Looking for some free advice. 

I’m a single father of 2 daughters (7 and 9 years old). I’ve had 50% custody since my divorce 5 years ago. 

I met my girlfriend about 3 years ago. She’s friendly with my ex-wife and my kids absolutely adore her. Both kids will tell her things they won’t tell their mother or me. I asked my girlfriend to marry me almost 2 years ago. She said she’d think about it. I’m 100% committed to her whether we get married or not but she has lots of reservations.

My ex-wife is really bad with money. I pay her thousands of dollars each month in spousal and child support. Between her salary and my support payments, my ex’s income is more than the median income of my state but she’s still always out of money. In addition to support, I pay for all the kids’ after-school care, lunches, clothes, and stuff. I usually help my ex with utility bills or gas for the car each month at least once.

My girlfriend is very understanding about support payments and even helped my ex-wife set up automatic withdrawals so that there’s no delay in her getting the money and she doesn’t run into tax problems every year. My girlfriend also makes sure my kids buy my ex-wife presents for Christmas, Mother’s Day, and her birthday. 

Last week, my girlfriend got upset because I bought my ex a new car because her old one wasn’t safe to drive the kids around. She’s also upset because I agreed to help pay for my ex-wife’s vacation because she hasn’t been able to take the kids on a vacation for a couple of years. I don’t like giving my ex-wife money either but it’s about the kids and fortunately it doesn’t strain us financially. My girlfriend said she needs a break and won't answer my calls.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to navigate this situation?


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Stop all forms of payment except what you are mandated by law. Stop enabling your ex wife.

You are lucky your girlfriend has not left you over this. If it were my sister or daughter, I would tell her to run.

Get the book "When I Say No I Feel Guilty" and/or "Boundaries". You have none with your ex.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

NotLettingGo said:


> Looking for some free advice.
> 
> I’m a single father of 2 daughters (7 and 9 years old). I’ve had 50% custody since my divorce 5 years ago.
> 
> ...


I suspect that on some level, it being "about the kids" is just an excuse you are making. You are far too attached to the woman you refer to as your ex-wife. Your ex-wife is a grown up. You need to start treating her like one, and she needs to start acting like one. Your ex-wife is well, your ex-wife. You need to start treating her like one. She is no longer your responsibility.

I imagine your girlfriend is feeling like a side piece in the ongoing not-marriage you are maintaining with your not-wife.


----------



## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Dude. You can't be a husband to two women. What would you do if it was the other way around?


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

1st question:

Answer this first.
Why did you divorce your ex wife?
.........................................................................

2nd question:

Why didn't you divorce your wife?


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

X wife with more child support(dollars than required) does not get all the trimmings as well. Soon you will be cutting her lawn. Maybe you do that already. It is apparent your GF reservations on getting married just came to light.


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

Herschel said:


> Dude. You can't be a husband to two women. What would you do if it was the other way around?


I recognize the situation is not fair to my girlfriend but I can't ignore it when my kids are stranded because my ex's car broke down again. I thought buying the car would actually relieve some of the tension because my girlfriend was providing almost all of the kids' transportation during my their week with my ex. I just can't win here.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Quit paying for her other than what you're required to do. Your GF has every right to be pissed if you're giving your ex additional money/things. She's essentially sharing you with your ex-wife.

Quit being a pushover. You owe her nothing, and if you have issues about how she's handling the kids or endangering them, go on the offensive. You can't nice your way through life all the time.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

NotLettingGo said:


> I recognize the situation is not fair to my girlfriend but I can't ignore it when my kids are stranded because my ex's car broke down again. I thought buying the car would actually relieve some of the tension because my girlfriend was providing almost all of the kids' transportation during my their week with my ex. I just can't win here.


Did you discuss this new car with your GF or simply go get it? That right there is not full commitment to your GF. Your GF is now your significant other. I assume living with you and a major part of the family. Major decisions like cars she needs to be included.


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> Did you discuss this new car with your GF or simply go get it? That right there is not full commitment to your GF. Your GF is now your significant other. I assume living with you and a major part of the family. Major decisions like cars she needs to be included.


That's a good point. Thanks.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

NotLettingGo said:


> I recognize the situation is not fair to my girlfriend but I can't ignore it when my kids are stranded because my ex's car broke down again. I thought buying the car would actually relieve some of the tension because my girlfriend was providing almost all of the kids' transportation during my their week with my ex. I just can't win here.


I suppose that depends on how you define "winning" Your behaviour towards your ex-wife is completely inappropriate in every way shape and form for most people out there that would be considering a romantic relationship. You will find it extremely difficult to have it all...having both girlfriend 1, and ex-wifegirlfriend2...


----------



## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

dubsey said:


> Quit paying for her other than what you're required to do. Your GF has every right to be pissed if you're giving your ex additional money/things. She's essentially sharing you with your ex-wife.
> 
> Quit being a pushover. You owe her nothing, and if you have issues about how she's handling the kids or endangering them, go on the offensive. You can't nice your way through life all the time.


^^^This exactly^^^

Don't pay any more than what you're supposed to. Your ex needs to own her s**t, and it is no longer your responsibility. You're taking care of her money problems, so what incentive does she have to change anything that she is doing? Your kids are your responsibility, true. If they are in jeopardy or not well cared for when they're with your ex, then go back to court and get more custody. But seriously stop white knighting your ex.


----------



## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

I am amazed that your gf has been so understanding so far. 

This is such a bad model you and your ex wife are setting for your girls. How in the world are they going to be able to understand healthy boundaries for future boyfriends/husbands who still have feelings/are attached to their exes?


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

NotLettingGo said:


> Herschel said:
> 
> 
> > Dude. You can't be a husband to two women. What would you do if it was the other way around?
> ...


This post right here shows that you can't even begin to see the problems with what you are doing. In fact you see yourself as a victim ("I just can't win here"). I don't believe any emotionally healthy woman would commit to you. You are paying thousands a month to your ex, and are buying her a car and vacation on top of that? You are still acting as her life partner. If the kids are stranded, pick them to. Give them rides. You are acting like a husband to your ex. Have you considered getting back together with her?


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

My BIL XW is as bad as your XW. Absolutely horrible with money. Car repo. Behind on mortgage. Business my BIL left his XW is failing. Yet, my BIL send the child support....nothing more. It is up to his xw to figure it out. I recall once his XW called and asked about the lawn. He simply stated to her, "That **** is over. Go find a lawn care company." Tough love or dislike did the trick. His XW never bothers him for anything any longer. She has figured it out.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Livvie said:


> This post right here shows that you can't even begin to see the problems with what you are doing. In fact you see yourself as a victim ("I just can't win here"). I don't believe any emotionally healthy woman would commit to you. You are paying thousands a month to your ex, and are buying her a car and vacation on top of that? You are still acting as her life partner. If the kids are stranded, pick them to. Give them rides. You are acting like a husband to your ex. Have you considered getting back together with her?


Fairly early on in my relationship with my wife, we had an issue along these lines though not nearly so egregious. Her kids would tell her that their dad, my wife's ex didn't have any food in the house, and so my wife would occasionally go to the food bank and take food over to her ex-husband. Yes, I would have ended our relationship if that had continued.


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

Keke24 said:


> I am amazed that your gf has been so understanding so far.
> 
> This is such a bad model you and your ex wife are setting for your girls. How in the world are they going to be able to understand healthy boundaries for future boyfriends/husbands who still have feelings/are attached to their exes?


Definitely do not have feelings for the ex. I won't even answer her calls because I can't stand listening to her whine. I l just listen to the long rambling voice messages she leaves to see if there's anything about the kids. I don't respond to 90% of the messages and send her a short text response when I do need to respond. 

Model for the kids is concerning. I don't want to fight for full custody because the girls love their mother and a financially irresponsible mother is better than no mother. If she did something that endangered the kids, I would go for full custody immediately. Not sure if it's better to let my kids suffer the consequences of their mother to teach them the importance of being responsible or if it's better to shoulder that responsibilty because their so young. Not the kids fault that I saddled them with my ex.for a mother.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

NotLettingGo said:


> Definitely do not have feelings for the ex. I won't even answer her calls because I can't stand listening to her whine. I l just listen to the long rambling voice messages she leaves to see if there's anything about the kids. I don't respond to 90% of the messages and send her a short text response when I do need to respond.
> 
> Model for the kids is concerning. I don't want to fight for full custody because the girls love their mother and a financially irresponsible mother is better than no mother. If she did something that endangered the kids, I would go for full custody immediately. Not sure if it's better to let my kids suffer the consequences of their mother to teach them the importance of being responsible or if it's better to shoulder that responsibilty because their so young. Not the kids fault that I saddled them with my ex.for a mother.


You need to look at it a different way. Your XW needs to become the model of woman she would like her daughters to grow up to be. Irresponsible with money. Always broke. Taking no responsibility. This is what your XW is teaching your kids. Your XW needs to stand on her own two feet. Only your XW need to figure this out. She will not when the KISA who is known as the XH shows up with a checkbook.


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

How often do you get unanimous opinions these days? I appreciate everyone taking their time to give me much need, if difficult to hear, advice.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't mean for this to sound rude, but it's no wonder why your gf is hesitant about marriage. 

She knows you have to put your kids first, but she can't fathom why that means you must put your ex wife first to do so. 

Instead of sending your wife and kids on vacation, you could have taken your gf and kids on vacation. Your wife has to make good on her side of responsibilities. It's not your job to save her anymore or provide for her. Its now her job. 

Your gf is rapidly losing respect for you and faith in the longevity your relationship, most likely. Your ex W is continuing to be enabled and will not learn how to survive without you. It's been 5 years. Cut the tethers.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Anyway, to "fix" this problem, you need to approach your GF with hat in hand. Explain to your GF that you did not consider her thoughts and feelings concerning several things:

1. How you handle your XW and her issues
2. Did not consider her thoughts concerning free car give-a-ways
3. Did not consider her thoughts concerning free vacation give-a-ways

If she is willing to allow you to make it right through you actions in the future you would be elated. (Personally your GF looks like a saint to me. She appears to do a lot for you and without complaint) 

Understand you are no longer with your XW. Don't stand around and make your XW look awesome to your kids as you pay for it all. That is for your XW to do. As someone stated, you can't nice your way through some situations.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

NLG,

Why did you divorce your exW or why did she divorce you.

Tamat


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

NotLettingGo said:


> How often do you get unanimous opinions these days? I appreciate everyone taking their time to give me much need, if difficult to hear, advice.


You're girlfriend is prepared to accept coming second to your children.She is not prepared to come third to your ex wife.I think she is gone permanently,you have pushed her away and she's not coming back.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Stop all forms of payment except what you are mandated by law. Stop enabling your ex wife.
> 
> You are lucky your girlfriend has not left you over this. If it were my sister or daughter, I would tell her to run.
> 
> Get the book "When I Say No I Feel Guilty" and/or "Boundaries". You have none with your ex.


:iagree:

While I commend you for wanting to help your ex and appreciate her as the mother of your children (truly- very admirable of you), you're seeing that to move forward with a quality woman, she's going to expect you to implement boundaries with the ex. A quality woman is not going to tolerate being lower on the totem pole than another woman, even if she is the mother of your children.

I'd apologize to your fiancé for upsetting her and let her know that from this point on, any support (financial and otherwise) given to your ex beyond what is already established will only be done after running it by her and with mutual agreement first. 

Your fiancé wants assurance that she will be first in your life, which is what she deserves if you two are married. No woman wants to worry that her security and stability, however plentiful, will be spread too thin and without her agreement, especially if you two have discussed having children together.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NotLettingGo said:


> Looking for some free advice.
> 
> I’m a single father of 2 daughters (7 and 9 years old). I’ve had 50% custody since my divorce 5 years ago.
> 
> ...


Your ex is your ex for a reason. She is also an adult you are responsible for your kids not her. Dude, being honest, unless you stop this no woman is going to put up with it. Your ex-wife is an adult she can learn to budget her money. Take you kids on a vacation with you and your girlfriend. At the very worst how about you pay for the kids portion of the vacation, but no her for instance (Still sounds like a bad idea to me, but at least it's better then what you did). Or get back with your ex since you are prioritizing her like she is your wife. Your boundaries are terrible to put it nicely. Your gf is a saint.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Well, I see you've been hit with the 2x4's already so I won't add to that.

My thought is that you need to change your way of thinking when it comes to your kids. Yes it sucks when your ex's car breaks down and THE KIDS are stranded somewhere. But why is this your problem? Why would you, or your gf, need to do ANYthing about this? You have the girls 50% of the time. If YOUR car broke down, would you expect your ex wife to fix YOUR problem? What would YOU do about it? I'll bet your answer has NOTHING to do with your ex whatsoever. You would call a cab, or a tow truck, or roadside assistance, or the cops, or whomever you needed to call, and you'd solve the problem yourself. 

So why is it that you think your ex wife is incapable of making these decisions? IS she incapable of it? If so, then you SHOULD have full custody. If not, then let her MAKE them HERSELF. Let her figure it out. Sure life might not be 'fair' for your daughters - they might have to spend an hour waiting with their mom for a tow truck, or they might not get to go to Disneyland, or they might have to eat KD for dinner more than you'd like, or WHATEVER. But you know what? THAT's LIFE.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Oh, one other thought. If you DO grow a backbone and stop all this coddling of your ex, I'd expect her to go ballistic. Make sure EVERY SINGLE THING you do for your kids is documented somehow. EVERY SINGLE THING. With proof preferably. So your ex can't come back and demand more.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

It's the King who gets the Queen. Knights in shining armor just end up fighting and dying for the King. Better to be the King.

Don't you watch Game of Thrones?


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> NLG,
> 
> Why did you divorce your exW or why did she divorce you.
> 
> Tamat


My ex and I were just a bad fit. 

Throughout our marriage she’d get upset if she didn’t get her way and threaten divorce. I bought her carnations for our second anniversary and she moved into our daughter’s bedroom because carnations are a cheap flower and showed that I didn’t value her. At first I’d talk to her and we’d make up but after the 3rd year I just let her stay in the other room. We slept in separate bedrooms for 2 years and she just got worse. I got an au pair to help take care of the kids during the work week and I took care of the kids each night and every weekend. We went on vacations without my ex and she’d take the kids to visit her family without me. 

My ex was working during this time so I didn’t bother to give her any money. I paid all the mortgage, utilities, insurance, and other household expenses. I bought the cars, food, and clothes for the kids. We spent the major holidays together but otherwise ate apart. 

We didn’t talk much and I was happier that way. Sometimes my wife would be out overnight or stumble home drunk around 3 am. My mom asked if I was hurt and I could only say answer that it’s hard to care enough to be hurt. I’m not proud of it, but I really didn’t care if she was driving drunk as long as she didn’t have the kids with her. She moved out after sleeping in my daughter’s room for 2 years and then filed for divorce after living separate for 1 year. I didn't care that she filed divorce, I just wanted custody of the kids and not to be stuck with her 100k credit card debt that I didn't know about until she asked me to take 50% during the divorce.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

NotLettingGo said:


> My ex and I were just a bad fit.
> 
> Throughout our marriage she’d get upset if she didn’t get her way and threaten divorce. I bought her carnations for our second anniversary and she moved into our daughter’s bedroom because carnations are a cheap flower and showed that I didn’t value her. At first I’d talk to her and we’d make up but after the 3rd year I just let her stay in the other room. We slept in separate bedrooms for 2 years and she just got worse. I got an au pair to help take care of the kids during the work week and I took care of the kids each night and every weekend. We went on vacations without my ex and she’d take the kids to visit her family without me.
> 
> ...


Sounds like things haven't changed much in the past five years then.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are being played and walked on by your X because you allow it.

No woman is going to want to be a part of your mess.




Read up and wake up
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

It's obvious you have no commitment to your girlfriend, and you are still very committed to your ex wife.

And you are living in complete denial of that truth.


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

NotLettingGo said:


> My ex and I were just a bad fit.
> 
> Throughout our marriage she’d get upset if she didn’t get her way and threaten divorce. I bought her carnations for our second anniversary and she moved into our daughter’s bedroom because carnations are a cheap flower and showed that I didn’t value her. At first I’d talk to her and we’d make up but after the 3rd year I just let her stay in the other room. We slept in separate bedrooms for 2 years and she just got worse. I got an au pair to help take care of the kids during the work week and I took care of the kids each night and every weekend. We went on vacations without my ex and she’d take the kids to visit her family without me.
> 
> ...


When your ex wife looks at you she sees the letters ATM on your forehead.You may as well get them tattooed permanently.


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> It's obvious you have no commitment to your girlfriend, and you are still very committed to your ex wife.
> 
> And you are living in complete denial of that truth.



I see how you could reach that conclusion based on the information provided, but I couldn't be more serious about my gf. Divorced parents like to say “my kids come first” but I disagree. My gf is part of my family and there are no second class citizens in a family. We work together to make sure the kids eat well, sleep well, are healthy, do well in school, have fun, and know they’re loved. On the other hand, the kids know sometimes they have to take a backseat to my gf. Generally, we’ve been very happy the last few years. 

My ex is a problem. I feel guilty that my gf and kids have to deal with the problem, but sometimes my gf invites the problems. 

For example, the car. Part of the reason I bought my ex a car was because no dad wants to hear about his 7 and 9 year old daughters being stuck on the side of the road. Another reason is my kids really do have a lot of activities that need transportation. I’d already told my kids “I’m sorry you’re sad that you have to miss dance, piano, soccer, and birthday parties during your weeks with mom, but your mom is doing her best and sometimes you have to be understanding.” My gf felt bad seeing kids cry about missing birthday parties and performances during my ex’s week so she would drive them. It was ok for a while but there were two times my gf couldn’t get out of work to get my kids to an activity. My ex told the kids it was my gf’s fault that they have to miss activities. The kids were upset and my gf was upset. 

I tried to convince my gf to stop driving them but she remembers not being able to go to activities because her parents couldn’t drive her. I respect her opinion that these things are more important than we know so I don’t argue when she wants to drive the kids. She doesn’t complain but I really hate seeing her stretch herself thin to deal with my problems. I bought my ex a reliable car because it seemed the lesser of two evils. 

There’s no excuse for not talking to my gf about it before buying the car. I guess I assumed it’s okay if I buy the car with money I’d otherwise use on my annual Alaskan fishing trip with my brother. I’m groveling plenty for that stupid assumption. I want to give her the time she needs but don’t want her to think I don’t care.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Your GF is awesome. Make sure she knows that.


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

notmyrealname4 said:


> I know you want to marry your girlfriend [for two years now, wow]; but if you're not married yet, it's not her place to say if it's okay whether or not you get your ex-wife a new car for the sake of your kids safety.
> 
> 
> The only reason I said that your finances aren't your girlfriend's business, is that you don't want to get involved again with someone who walks all over you. Marriage is a line and boundary. Prior to crossing it, I don't think people should have full access to your money, or the way you live your life.


His finances are absolutely her business if they are serious enough and committed enough to be on the verge of marriage. As hers are his business as well. He is damn lucky the GF is still around.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I wouldn't have bought your ex wife a new car or a vacation. You have to let her go. If she has money problems's that's her problem even if it impacts the kids. She'll use the kids to get money out of you. You have to stop being so nice to her. That will definitely effect how your girlfriend sees this. You and her have to be first priority and you have to stop giving her money above what is require by your divorce papers. I don't blame her for having reservations in marrying you. Your ex wife is going to keep sucking you dry as long as you let her.


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

How much did you spend on your girlfriend's ring when you decided to get engaged? 

Your girlfriend sees you as a doormat to your ex wife. Do you go change light bults for her or pay handmen to do it? Let her go. I bet your girlfriend is done, she is the second wheel in this relationship.


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

,


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

,


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Yeah, but they've been on the "verge" of marriage for two years??
> 
> Like I said in my prior comment, I can understand her being skittish about being married to him, due to his overinvolvement in his ex's life. I get that.
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely. Marriage is the ultimate commitment to another person and anything you do before that is for the person seriously dating you to consider if you're marriage material. His finances are his business until he is married. Sure, she can ask him, observe, and even disagree, but ultimately, she is also free to walk away, which she seems to know and take seriously (good for her). 

OP, again, you don't sound like a bad guy at all. Your GF is thinking seriously about whether she can commit to you knowing that your resources will always be shared by your ex. I don't blame her, your GF is a smart woman.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

notmyrealname4 said:


> I'm curious. I agree that OP's ex is milking him for way too much money and assistance.
> 
> But if her car is breaking down; and that means that his kids may be stranded on the side of the road somewhere; then how does he get her to buy a new one. Or, get the needed repairs to her current vehicle.
> 
> The ex has him over a barrel, 'cause she can play the "kids safety" card. That's really hard.


It's not nearly as hard as some people seem to think it is. The hard part is in making the hard decisions. Unless the kids are going to have their physical safety jeopardized, and being stuck on the side of the road for a few hours is not really a threat...I mean seriously, new cars break down too. It's just part of life, and in this case, an excuse to avoid making tough decisions. If the kids really are in danger of physical harm, then the physical custody arrangement needs to be reevaluated.

What we have going on in this situation as it is is actually quite possibly very mentally and emotionally damaging to the kids, and for the rest of their lives. They are getting a totally warped and twisted view of parental and marital relationships. They are learning life lessons that are going to be very difficult to unlearn when they get into their own relationships and lives.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> I'm curious. I agree that OP's ex is milking him for way too much money and assistance.
> 
> But if her car is breaking down; and that means that his kids may be stranded on the side of the road somewhere; then how does he get her to buy a new one. Or, get the needed repairs to her current vehicle.
> 
> The ex has him over a barrel, 'cause she can play the "kids safety" card. That's really hard.


The GF provides rides when she can. Sometimes she is not able because of work. At that juncture, the children will need to learn that not every event can be attended due to transportation or issue that comes up. It is a fact of life. XW needs to get her crap together for HER KIDS......


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

I would not feel safe with the possibility of breaking down on the side of the road with my children, and I wouldn't allow my kids to ride with anyone whose car is experiencing regular break-downs or regular mechanical issues. BUT, there are many ways for the OP's ex to deal with the situation. An inexpensive, reliable car can cost $150/month to lease or make payments. If he wants to incorporate that somehow into his support payments, I'd be fine with that. He doesn't need to shell out thousands to get her a nice car or outright buy one for her. He could have talked with his fiancé about how she'd feel if he slightly increased his support payments to his ex. He could have purchased a car in his name to loan his ex until she gets her finances straightened out. There are several options he could have brainstormed with his fiancé, who sounds like an intelligent woman.

And while even new, very nice high-end cars can certainly break down, you can look at ratings for reliability and go with a model known for not breaking down. I've had family members immediately give up a beautiful car after the entire computer system went down on the freeway and pick up a less beautiful, more reliable car instead for this exact reason.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Jessica38 said:


> I would not feel safe with the possibility of breaking down on the side of the road with my children, and I wouldn't allow my kids to ride with anyone whose car is experiencing regular break-downs or regular mechanical issues. BUT, there are many ways for the OP's ex to deal with the situation. An inexpensive, reliable car can cost $150/month to lease or make payments. *If he wants to incorporate that somehow into his support payments, *I'd be fine with that. He doesn't need to shell out thousands to get her a nice car or outright buy one for her. He could have talked with his fiancé about how she'd feel if he slightly increased his support payments to his ex. He could have purchased a car in his name to loan his ex until she gets her finances straightened out. There are several options he could have brainstormed with his fiancé, who sounds like an intelligent woman.


Jessica38...that is an excellent answer to the problem! Good show!


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

,


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

NotLettingGo said:


> Part of the reason I bought my ex a car was because no dad wants to hear about his 7 and 9 year old daughters being stuck on the side of the road. Another reason is my kids really do have a lot of activities that need transportation. I’d already told my kids “I’m sorry you’re sad that you have to miss dance, piano, soccer, and birthday parties during your weeks with mom, but your mom is doing her best and sometimes you have to be understanding.” My gf felt bad seeing kids cry about missing birthday parties and performances during my ex’s week so she would drive them. It was ok for a while but there were two times my gf couldn’t get out of work to get my kids to an activity. My ex told the kids it was my gf’s fault that they have to miss activities. The kids were upset and my gf was upset.
> 
> I tried to convince my gf to stop driving them but she remembers not being able to go to activities because her parents couldn’t drive her.


OK a couple of things. First, in case you missed it, I posted this last page.


Hope1964 said:


> My thought is that you need to change your way of thinking when it comes to your kids. Yes it sucks when your ex's car breaks down and THE KIDS are stranded somewhere. But why is this your problem? Why would you, or your gf, need to do ANYthing about this? You have the girls 50% of the time. If YOUR car broke down, would you expect your ex wife to fix YOUR problem? What would YOU do about it? I'll bet your answer has NOTHING to do with your ex whatsoever. You would call a cab, or a tow truck, or roadside assistance, or the cops, or whomever you needed to call, and you'd solve the problem yourself.
> 
> So why is it that you think your ex wife is incapable of making these decisions? IS she incapable of it? If so, then you SHOULD have full custody. If not, then let her MAKE them HERSELF. Let her figure it out. Sure life might not be 'fair' for your daughters - they might have to spend an hour waiting with their mom for a tow truck, or they might not get to go to Disneyland, or they might have to eat KD for dinner more than you'd like, or WHATEVER. But you know what? THAT's LIFE.


Next, your gf. So she feels bad when your kids can't get to things and has decided that she should drive them herself. Well, sorry but that is on HER. She's a big girl and can choose to do this, but this has NOTHING to do with you. 

And your ex telling your kids that you/your gf are evil. Well, she can also tell them the sky is pink, but that doesn't make it true. Your kids are also not stupid. THEY know what's what. They might be influenced by what your ex says NOW, but as they grow up, if you are consistently doing the right thing, they will know it. They might not LIKE it - they might not LIKE missing things when your ex doesn't take them, but do you REALLY think your kids blame you, deep down? They don't. And once they're grown, they'll tell you how much they appreciate what you did for them when they were little. Mine have.

This post is one you need to read again if you haven't already.



samyeagar said:


> It's not nearly as hard as some people seem to think it is. The hard part is in making the hard decisions. Unless the kids are going to have their physical safety jeopardized, and being stuck on the side of the road for a few hours is not really a threat...I mean seriously, new cars break down too. It's just part of life, and in this case, an excuse to avoid making tough decisions. If the kids really are in danger of physical harm, then the physical custody arrangement needs to be reevaluated.
> 
> *What we have going on in this situation as it is is actually quite possibly very mentally and emotionally damaging to the kids, and for the rest of their lives*. They are getting a totally warped and twisted view of parental and marital relationships. They are learning life lessons that are going to be very difficult to unlearn when they get into their own relationships and lives.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> Jessica38...that is an excellent answer to the problem! Good show!


Well, maybe on the surface, but unless it is a zero sum game where instead of paying say $5000 a month in cash, he pays $4500 in cash, and the other $500 on a car loan...but if she's not able to make it on the cash amount now, how is this going to help? Ultimately it is just going to end up with him continuing to give her more resource, and he'll end up paying way more anyway.

I do have some personal experience with this. My ex-wife was a SAHM who refused to get a job, even when our youngest was in middle school, and she spent us into foreclosure and bankruptcy on my six figure salary. She got a pretty hefty alimony award, and five years out from the divorce now...she still hasn't gone back to school, not has she gotten herself a job, yet just the other day she threatened mediation because she needs more money.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Jessica38 said:


> I would not feel safe with the possibility of breaking down on the side of the road with my children, and I wouldn't allow my kids to ride with anyone whose car is experiencing regular break-downs or regular mechanical issues. BUT, there are many ways for the OP's ex to deal with the situation. An inexpensive, reliable car can cost $150/month to lease or make payments. If he wants to incorporate that somehow into his support payments, I'd be fine with that. He doesn't need to shell out thousands to get her a nice car or outright buy one for her. He could have talked with his fiancé about how she'd feel if he slightly increased his support payments to his ex. He could have purchased a car in his name to loan his ex until she gets her finances straightened out. There are several options he could have brainstormed with his fiancé, who sounds like an intelligent woman.
> 
> And while even new, very nice high-end cars can certainly break down, you can look at ratings for reliability and go with a model known for not breaking down. I've had family members immediately give up a beautiful car after the entire computer system went down on the freeway and pick up a less beautiful, more reliable car instead for this exact reason.


The ex already gets, and I quote, "thousands" a month in support. It's not a matter of she can't make ends meet due to lack of funds. Him taking care of buying a car is still acting as her life partner. The problem is her spending and budgeting and he needs to completely completely let that go.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Jessica38 said:


> I would not feel safe with the possibility of breaking down on the side of the road with my children, and I wouldn't allow my kids to ride with anyone whose car is experiencing regular break-downs or regular mechanical issues.


The possibility exists no matter WHAT you're driving, for a breakdown or, even more likely, an accident. Every time anyone gets into a car their life is in jeopardy, if you want to look at it that way. And incorporating additional money into his support payments for the purpose of her buying a car isn't any different than buying one for her. It's enabling the ex to continue to be a twat and expect him to bail her out.

I'm sorry, but the OP reminds me of a mother I once saw on that TV show Intervention. She actually LEFT HOME to sleep ON THE STREETS with her drug addicted son, and the people doing the show said they had never seen such a bad case of codependency in their life. They had to do an intervention with HER as well as her son and make her stop enabling him so badly.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Livvie said:


> The ex already gets, and I quote, "thousands" a month in support. It's not a matter of she can't make ends meet due to lack of funds. Him taking care of buying a car is still acting as her life partner. The problem is her spending and budgeting and he needs to completely completely let that go.


You can't completely let that go when you're worried about the safety of your children, which I would be too in his situation. And I don't think her financial irresponsibility makes her unfit for shared custody at this time. The solution is to find a way to have his children safely transported without continually giving hand-outs to the Ex, which is (rightly) causing his fiancé to rethink commitment to him, and he wants to save the relationship with his fiancé.

Again, there are options the OP and his fiancé can consider, including direct deposit payments from his financial support to his Ex to the payment of the car lease. And you do not have to lease a reliable car for $500. I see deals all the time for a low-mileage basic car in the $150 range. He could even get the car in his name and loan it to his ex with minimal financial commitment on his part. 

I too would put my children's safety first in this situation, but the OP needs to do it in a way that his fiancé is in agreement with, and rightfully so, if he intends to marry her. He 100% needs to never fund another vacation for his ex again though. His fiancé is very smart to consider that a possible deal-breaker if he continues that without considering her feelings on the matter.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Jessica38 said:


> You can't completely let that go when you're worried about the safety of your children, which I would be too in his situation. And I don't think her financial irresponsibility makes her unfit for shared custody at this time. The solution is to find a way to have his children safely transported without continually giving hand-outs to the Ex, which is (rightly) causing his fiancé to rethink commitment to him, and he wants to save the relationship with his fiancé.
> 
> Again, there are options the OP and his fiancé can consider, including direct deposit payments from his financial support to his Ex to the payment of the car lease. And you do not have to lease a reliable car for $500. I see deals all the time for a low-mileage basic car in the $150 range. He could even get the car in his name and loan it to his ex with minimal financial commitment on his part.
> 
> I too would put my children's safety first in this situation, but the OP needs to do it in a way that his fiancé is in agreement with, and rightfully so, if he intends to marry her. He 100% needs to never fund another vacation for his ex again though. His fiancé is very smart to consider that a possible deal-breaker if he continues that without considering her feelings on the matter.


His children are NOT IN ANY DANGER here. They're inconvenienced, if anything. Good grief.

And if they WERE in actual danger, the solution isn't to throw more money at the ex - it's to get sole custody! What does he do the first time the ex calls him up because this wonderful leased vehicle needs an oil change and she can't afford it? Or it needs new tires? Those are expensive, and of course we have to think about the safety of the children, right??

The solution is to CUT HER OFF.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

@Hope1964, we have *very* different perspectives on this, and that's ok! Just sharing mine, which still stands. I absolutely would not want my children riding around in a car that regularly breaks down, for many reasons. It's important to me, and it seems important to the OP too, which I completely get. And I completely disagree that custody of her children should be taken from her because she is driving a beater.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> His children are NOT IN ANY DANGER here. They're inconvenienced, if anything. Good grief.
> 
> And if they WERE in actual danger, the solution isn't to throw more money at the ex - it's to get sole custody! What does he do the first time the ex calls him up because this wonderful leased vehicle needs an oil change and she can't afford it? Or it needs new tires? Those are expensive, and of course we have to think about the safety of the children, right??
> 
> The solution is to CUT HER OFF.


I definitely agree. Anymore money than the divorce decree calls for is unnecessary. Let her figure out her own finances and problems.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Jessica38 said:


> @Hope1964, we have *very* different perspectives on this, and that's ok! Just sharing mine, which still stands. I absolutely would not want my children riding around in a car that regularly breaks down, for many reasons. It's important to me, and it seems important to the OP too, which I completely get. And I completely disagree that custody of her children should be taken from her because she is driving a beater.


So if you were sharing custody with a guy who didn't maintain his car, you'd pay for his car repairs and his lease?

This guy seems to think he's doing this for his kids, when what he's REALLY doing is teaching them that it's ok to let your ex take you to the cleaners because you'll bail her out no matter how bad she is with money.

It isn't really even about the kids or their safety - that's just the thing she's holding over his head.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Jessica38 said:


> @Hope1964, we have *very* different perspectives on this, and that's ok! Just sharing mine, which still stands. I absolutely would not want my children riding around in a car that regularly breaks down, for many reasons. It's important to me, and it seems important to the OP too, which I completely get. And I completely disagree that custody of her children should be taken from her because she is driving a beater.


And this gets back to difficult decisions. Sometimes in life, one just can't have it all. If the OP decides to continue being his ex-wife's financier, that is necessarily going to limit his options when it comes to dating, and will very probably limit the possibility of finding a healthy good woman, as most would rightfully not touch this situation with a ten foot pole.

If the ex-wife's financial mismanagement with reasonable resources is causing the kids to be in perceived physical danger, then throwing more money at the problem is not likely to fix the bigger issue there either.

I honestly think this is far deeper than just concern for the kids. Yes, the kids provide a ready made rationalization, but I think there is a layer of codependency here that is not healthy for anyone involved...especially the kids.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Hope1964 said:


> So if you were sharing custody with a guy who didn't maintain his car, you'd pay for his car repairs and his lease?
> 
> This guy seems to think he's doing this for his kids, when what he's REALLY doing is teaching them that it's ok to let your ex take you to the cleaners because you'll bail her out no matter how bad she is with money.
> 
> It isn't really even about the kids or their safety - that's just the thing she's holding over his head.


You could be right about her intentions but it doesn't change the fact that I'd want my kids' safety secured, and driving in a car that could get them stuck on the side of the road and at the mercy of other drivers is too dangerous for my blood. Yes, I am committed to making sure my children are transported safely in reliable cars, even if that means paying an expense I'd rather not pay. It is a big deal to me, though I completely understand it might not be for others. My children's safety in cars is a big deal to me- we've had incidences in our family that make my sisters and me hyper-aware of the dangers of roadside breakdowns, especially in high traffic areas.

I also do not believe that a mother should lose custody of her children unless she is exhibiting abusive behavior. Poverty is not a condition for losing custody, as long as the children are properly housed, fed, and clothed. If she has to take public transportation via busses, she still deserves to share custody of her children if she's a fit mother (meaning not abusive).


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> And this gets back to difficult decisions. Sometimes in life, one just can't have it all. If the OP decides to continue being his ex-wife's financier, that is necessarily going to limit his options when it comes to dating, and will very probably limit the possibility of finding a healthy good woman, as most would rightfully not touch this situation with a ten foot pole.
> 
> If the ex-wife's financial mismanagement with reasonable resources is causing the kids to be in perceived physical danger, then throwing more money at the problem is not likely to fix the bigger issue there either.
> 
> I honestly think this is far deeper than just concern for the kids. Yes, the kids provide a ready made rationalization, but I think there is a layer of codependency here that is not healthy for anyone involved...especially the kids.


I get what you're saying, and the OP's situation is certainly not ideal, but that's divorce- it's not ideal and blended families struggle because of these issues. I do believe he can assure his kids' safety while maintaining proper boundaries with the Ex though. He just has to be extremely clear and specific about how he handles these situations going forward, and be fully transparent with his fiancé, as well as realize that he will need to put his fiancé first when they are married by taking her ideas and opinions into consideration and coming up with mutually agreeable solutions.

And she does sound like a quality woman who is willing to do this- he just needs to let her know that he understands she needs to agree on things like this (if they are married).


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Jessica38 said:


> You could be right about her intentions but it doesn't change the fact that I'd want my kids' safety secured, and driving in a car that could get them stuck on the side of the road and at the mercy of other drivers is too dangerous for my blood. Yes, I am committed to making sure my children are transported safely in reliable cars, even if that means paying an expense I'd rather not pay. It is a big deal to me, though I completely understand it might not be for others. My children's safety in cars is a big deal to me- we've had incidences in our family that make my sisters and me hyper-aware of the dangers of roadside breakdowns, especially in high traffic areas.
> 
> I also do not believe that a mother should lose custody of her children unless she is exhibiting abusive behavior. Poverty is not a condition for losing custody, as long as the children are properly housed, fed, and clothed. If she has to take public transportation via busses, she still deserves to share custody of her children if she's a fit mother (meaning not abusive).


Of course poverty should not be a condition for losing custody. The conversation has really focused on the car, but circling back around, I think the car was just the straw that broke his girlfriends back. His throwing money at his ex-wife has not been remotely limited to just this car. According to the OP, it has been pretty much across the board, and likely goes beyond what has been mentioned here. I suspect that if the only issue was the car, this discussion would not be happening.

Going back to the health and safety of the kids, the focus here went to the car, but the real damage is the lessons being hammered into those kids...their emotional health and safety is far more in danger than them getting stuck on the side of the road.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> Of course poverty should not be a condition for losing custody. The conversation has really focused on the car, but circling back around, I think the car was just the straw that broke his girlfriends back. His throwing money at his ex-wife has not been remotely limited to just this car. According to the OP, it has been pretty much across the board, and likely goes beyond what has been mentioned here. I suspect that if the only issue was the car, this discussion would not be happening.
> 
> Good point, I'm sure you're right.
> 
> ...


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Jessica38 said:


> You lost me here- I don't see where the OP has indicated that his children's emotional health and safety are in danger, other than driving around in a beater, which she is legally allowed to do (I just wouldn't like it and agree with the OP that it's enough of a concern to fork over $$ for).


No, no one else had really mentioned that because it has gotten lost in the noise. Just look at this situation and how the OP, and his ex have been behaving. Is this a good and healthy example of anything for the kids? Is this a good and healthy example of how relationships and marriages should be? How grown men, and grown women should act?


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> No, no one else had really mentioned that because it has gotten lost in the noise. Just look at this situation and how the OP, and his ex have been behaving. Is this a good and healthy example of anything for the kids? Is this a good and healthy example of how relationships and marriages should be? How grown men, and grown women should act?


You're probably right but it is nothing compared to what I hear other divorced families do IRL. We know a mom who is dating the father of her son's girlfriend. We know another who just told her ex she will take the kids from him if the kids keep reporting that he spends all weekend lying on the couch hungover while telling the kids to be quiet. 

I hear a dad who wants to do right by his kids as much as he can, while worrying that he's driving his fiancé away (no pun intended). I think he just needs to set firm boundaries with the Ex. I think he can do that while keeping his kids' safety a priority for his own peace of mind, regardless of how it benefits his ex.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Jessica38 said:


> You're probably right but it is nothing compared to what I hear other divorced families do IRL. We know a mom who is dating the father of her son's girlfriend. We know another who just told her ex she will take the kids from him if the kids keep reporting that he spends all weekend lying on the couch hungover while telling the kids to be quiet.
> 
> I hear a dad who wants to do right by his kids as much as he can, while worrying that he's driving his fiancé away (no pun intended). I think he just needs to set firm boundaries with the Ex. I think he can do that while keeping his kids' safety a priority for his own peace of mind, regardless of how it benefits his ex.


Part of the firm boundaries is to stop enabling the ex. She is a grown woman who as far as we are aware is perfectly capable of working and providing for her children. As long as "the health and safety of the kids" remains carte blanche for the ex, as well as the kids being trained that they are able to have everything...there really are no boundaries that can be set.

The situation as it stands right now with the ex and the kids having it all...nobody can have it all, as the OP is learning. He is losing a girlfriend, and again...hard choices. Changes and boundaries to the current dynamic that will make it more likely for the OP to attract and more importantly keep a good, high quality woman are going to rock the boat that the OP has been keeping afloat for the ex and kids.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> Part of the firm boundaries is to stop enabling the ex. She is a grown woman who as far as we are aware is perfectly capable of working and providing for her children. As long as "the health and safety of the kids" remains carte blanche for the ex, as well as the kids being trained that they are able to have everything...there really are no boundaries that can be set.
> 
> The situation as it stands right now with the ex and the kids having it all...nobody can have it all, as the OP is learning. He is losing a girlfriend, and again...hard choices. Changes and boundaries to the current dynamic that will make it more likely for the OP to attract and more importantly keep a good, high quality woman are going to rock the boat that the OP has been keeping afloat for the ex and kids.


Agreed, but as boundaries are for yourself, the OP gets to decide what his boundaries are (and what he will and will not pay for). I happen to agree with him on the safer car, though I pointed out ways he could do that with his fiancé's agreement by taking into consideration her ideas and solutions. A safer car is for the kids, not the Ex, however much she might benefit from it. Again, it doesn't need to be fancy or expensive or even a car she'd like. It can be an inexpensive Honda that I'd consider for my teenager, as long as it is reliably getting the kids around.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

The OP also paid for his ex to go on a VACATION. I think that's worse than the car, and illustrates the issue is not about "safety".


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Jessica38 said:


> Agreed, but as boundaries are for yourself, the OP gets to decide what his boundaries are (and what he will and will not pay for). I happen to agree with him on the safer car, though I pointed out ways he could do that with his fiancé's agreement by taking into consideration her ideas and solutions. A safer car is for the kids, not the Ex, however much she might benefit from it. Again, it doesn't need to be fancy or expensive or even a car she'd like. It can be an inexpensive Honda that I'd consider for my teenager, as long as it is reliably getting the kids around.


Sure, but the car is just the symptom and example. From the OP:



> In addition to support, I pay for all the kids’ after-school care, lunches, clothes, and stuff. I usually help my ex with utility bills or gas for the car each month at least once


That's mind boggling. What does this woman who has 50% custody do to support her kids? Hell, support herself? They are her kids too, so she has just as much responsibility as he does.

Readers digest response to the OP's dilemma...he is lucky his GF stayed with him as long as she did. Until he knocks off all the crap with supporting his ex as if she wasn't his ex, he will find it extraordinarily difficult to maintain a relationship with a healthy woman.

He is certainly within his rights to handle things how ever he wants to, and boundaries are indeed an individual thing. In my mind, I suspect that his GF may be taking a step back and just watching...how does he react to her leaving him? He is at a crossroad...does he continue to choose his ex, or does he choose his girlfriend?


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> He is certainly within his rights to handle things how ever he wants to, and boundaries are indeed an individual thing. In my mind, I suspect that his GF may be taking a step back and just watching...how does he react to her leaving him? He is at a crossroad...does he continue to choose his ex, or does he choose his girlfriend?


I 100% agree. 

OP, if you want your GF/fiancé back, you'll need to make sure it's clear to her that you will put her first in your life. Right now, it's your job to put your kids first but once you are married, you two will need to agree on solutions first, before you automatically jump in to rescue your kids. Even if your ex were an accountant or a financial advisor who is wonderful with money, you'd still have this issue. Kids test boundaries, and many step-parents become deeply resentful when their spouse favors the kids over them, even when it comes to something like discipline that has nothing to do with $$$. Finding mutually agreeable solutions with your partner will benefit you regardless of the situation in a blended family. Your Gf already knows this, which is why she'd likely be a good partner for you.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Ultimately, if things continue as they have for the past five years between the OP and his ex, I do not see how he will be able to have a long term serious relationship with a good, healthy woman who has other options. Maybe once the kids have grown and are not living with their mother, he'll be able to give it another try. Such are the sacrifices some make in the name of their children...lord knows enough people sacrifice their marriages for them.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

I'd call it the bummer that is divorce. This is why second marriages have a lower chance of success after 10 years.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I'd die for my kids, just not at their hands.


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> @Hope1964, we have *very* different perspectives on this, and that's ok! Just sharing mine, which still stands. I absolutely would not want my children riding around in a car that regularly breaks down, for many reasons. It's important to me, and it seems important to the OP too, which I completely get. And I completely disagree that custody of her children should be taken from her because she is driving a beater.





Hope1964 said:


> His children are NOT IN ANY DANGER here. They're inconvenienced, if anything. Good grief.
> 
> And if they WERE in actual danger, the solution isn't to throw more money at the ex - it's to get sole custody! What does he do the first time the ex calls him up because this wonderful leased vehicle needs an oil change and she can't afford it? Or it needs new tires? Those are expensive, and of course we have to think about the safety of the children, right??
> 
> The solution is to CUT HER OFF.


This forum is sounding like my internal debate. It goes something like this: 

1.	Not my problem. Between child support, spousal support, and her salary, my ex-wife has an income just over 6 figures. Even though we live in a really expensive area because of the school district, there is absolutely no excuse for her to have financial problems. If I keep bailing her out then she will never learn. Plus, spousal support is scheduled to end in 6 months and her income will go down by 50%. If she can’t make ends meet now then it’s definitely going to be a problem then. 

2.	Being a parent means you don’t squabble because something unfair. The kids love their mom and a financially irresponsible mother is better than an absent one. I can’t tell a 7 and 9 year old they can’t see a mom they love because their mom is financially irresponsible. At least the kids come back fed, clean, and with their homework done which is a lot better than my brother’s ex. And let’s be honest, she’ll never change. She filed bankruptcy after the divorce and is already talking about filing again. She doesn’t have internet anymore because she didn’t pay the bill, the electricity has been cut off once already while the kids were there, and I had to get the girls a cell phone so they could reach me during their mom’s week because their mom doesn’t always have phone connection. I should ensure that the kids have a place to live, utilities, food, clothing, and school supplies every week of the calendar year.




Livvie said:


> The OP also paid for his ex to go on a VACATION. I think that's worse than the car, and illustrates the issue is not about "safety".


To be clear, I paid for part of the vacation. She’s going on vacation with the kids which she legally gets to do under the custody order. I just paid to move them from the roadside motel to a best western. 

Point taken though. Stop enabling. Kids are probably not going to be injured staying at a cheap motel with their mother. If it’s not bad enough to endanger their health and safety, it’s not something I should leave it alone. 





Jessica38 said:


> I 100% agree.
> 
> OP, if you want your GF/fiancé back, you'll need to make sure it's clear to her that you will put her first in your life. Right now, it's your job to put your kids first but once you are married, you two will need to agree on solutions first, before you automatically jump in to rescue your kids. Even if your ex were an accountant or a financial advisor who is wonderful with money, you'd still have this issue. Kids test boundaries, and many step-parents become deeply resentful when their spouse favors the kids over them, even when it comes to something like discipline that has nothing to do with $$$. Finding mutually agreeable solutions with your partner will benefit you regardless of the situation in a blended family. Your Gf already knows this, which is why she'd likely be a good partner for you.


Trying.I’m trying to show gf that she comes first. If I need to let the kids take a few lumps with their mother, so be it. I’m not entirely sure that will solve this. She hasn’t responded to my calls in 8 days.


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> @Hope1964, we have *very* different perspectives on this, and that's ok! Just sharing mine, which still stands. I absolutely would not want my children riding around in a car that regularly breaks down, for many reasons. It's important to me, and it seems important to the OP too, which I completely get. And I completely disagree that custody of her children should be taken from her because she is driving a beater.





Hope1964 said:


> His children are NOT IN ANY DANGER here. They're inconvenienced, if anything. Good grief.
> 
> And if they WERE in actual danger, the solution isn't to throw more money at the ex - it's to get sole custody! What does he do the first time the ex calls him up because this wonderful leased vehicle needs an oil change and she can't afford it? Or it needs new tires? Those are expensive, and of course we have to think about the safety of the children, right??
> 
> The solution is to CUT HER OFF.


This forum is sounding like my internal debate. It goes something like this: 

1.	Not my problem. Between child support, spousal support, and her salary, my ex-wife has an income just over 6 figures. Even though we live in a really expensive area because of the school district, there is absolutely no excuse for her to have financial problems. If I keep bailing her out then she will never learn. Plus, spousal support is scheduled to end in 6 months and her income will go down by 50%. If she can’t make ends meet now then it’s definitely going to be a problem then. 

2.	Being a parent means you don’t squabble because something unfair. The kids love their mom and a financially irresponsible mother is better than an absent one. I can’t tell a 7 and 9 year old they can’t see a mom they love because their mom is financially irresponsible. At least the kids come back fed, clean, and with their homework done which is a lot better than my brother’s ex. And let’s be honest, she’ll never change. She filed bankruptcy after the divorce and is already talking about filing again. She doesn’t have internet anymore because she didn’t pay the bill, the electricity has been cut off once already while the kids were there, and I had to get the girls a cell phone so they could reach me during their mom’s week because their mom doesn’t always have phone connection. I should ensure that the kids have a place to live, utilities, food, clothing, and school supplies every week of the calendar year.




Livvie said:


> The OP also paid for his ex to go on a VACATION. I think that's worse than the car, and illustrates the issue is not about "safety".


To be clear, I paid for part of the vacation. She’s going on vacation with the kids which she legally gets to do under the custody order. I just paid to move them from the roadside motel to a best western. 

Point taken though. Stop enabling. Kids are probably not going to be injured staying at a cheap motel with their mother. If it’s not bad enough to endanger their health and safety, it’s something I should leave it alone. 





Jessica38 said:


> I 100% agree.
> 
> OP, if you want your GF/fiancé back, you'll need to make sure it's clear to her that you will put her first in your life. Right now, it's your job to put your kids first but once you are married, you two will need to agree on solutions first, before you automatically jump in to rescue your kids. Even if your ex were an accountant or a financial advisor who is wonderful with money, you'd still have this issue. Kids test boundaries, and many step-parents become deeply resentful when their spouse favors the kids over them, even when it comes to something like discipline that has nothing to do with $$$. Finding mutually agreeable solutions with your partner will benefit you regardless of the situation in a blended family. Your Gf already knows this, which is why she'd likely be a good partner for you.


Trying.I’m trying to show gf that she comes first. If I need to let the kids take a few lumps with their mother, so be it. I’m not entirely sure that will solve this. She hasn’t responded to my calls in 8 days.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Did she tell you before ending contact that it was the car and vacation that was the final straw? Or was it more than that? Does she want kids of her own in the future?


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

NotLettingGo said:


> This forum is sounding like my internal debate. It goes something like this:
> 
> 1.	Not my problem. Between child support, spousal support, and her salary, my ex-wife has an income just over 6 figures. Even though we live in a really expensive area because of the school district, there is absolutely no excuse for her to have financial problems. If I keep bailing her out then she will never learn. Plus, spousal support is scheduled to end in 6 months and her income will go down by 50%. If she can’t make ends meet now then it’s definitely going to be a problem then.
> 
> ...


Ok...from a child safety standpoint...where is the ex spending all that money? There are not many things out there that can consume that much money without anything to show for it...the two most notable are drugs and gambling...both put the kids in very real danger. So seriously...where is your money going, because it is pretty clear that a whole bunch is not going to the kids...

So many things here starting to just not add up...


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> Did she tell you before ending contact that it was the car and vacation that was the final straw? Or was it more than that? Does she want kids of her own in the future?


No. She came by the house after work last week. She was very quiet. Picked up her phone charger and a couple of things and told me she needed a break from us. She'd call me when she was ready to talk. 



samyeagar said:


> Ok...from a child safety standpoint...where is the ex spending all that money? There are not many things out there that can consume that much money without anything to show for it...the two most notable are drugs and gambling...both put the kids in very real danger. So seriously...where is your money going, because it is pretty clear that a whole bunch is not going to the kids...


Well 25% is being garnished and then she owes back taxes which is an automatic deduction and I have no idea what else she does. During the marriage she liked to shop and we had unopened amazon boxes stacked to the ceiling. I asked the court to allow me to pay the apartment and utilities in lieu of support and everyones told me it's her right what she does with support money.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

NotLettingGo said:


> No. She came by the house after work last week. She was very quiet. Picked up her phone charger and a couple of things and told me she needed a break from us. She'd call me when she was ready to talk.


That's not a very good sign but there's not much you can do except respect her wishes and sort things out in terms of what you're going to do about your ex. 

Any of your future relationships depends on your actions with regards to your ex. Not just the one that's currently on the rocks. 

I get that it's a tough series of decisions to make, but when is an ex not an ex? When you're still pouring more resources into what was rather than what could and should be.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

NotLettingGo said:


> No. She came by the house after work last week. She was very quiet. Picked up her phone charger and a couple of things and told me she needed a break from us. She'd call me when she was ready to talk.
> 
> 
> 
> Well 25% is being garnished and then she owes back taxes which is an automatic deduction and I have no idea what else she does. During the marriage she liked to shop and we had unopened amazon boxes stacked to the ceiling. I asked the court to allow me to pay the apartment and utilities in lieu of support and everyones told me it's her right what she does with support money.


It's unfortunate that there is no legal accountability for the support money, but alas, there isn't. Above and beyond what is court ordered, you are the only one accountable for the support you provide.

I think it is quite likely that how you have been dealing with your ex over that past five years in its entirety finally caught up with your girlfriend and she hit the tipping point.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Ok...I realize it's too late but the car thing...the MOST I would have done for her would have been to put her on my AAA account. After she sat and waited for a tow a couple of times, she might have been more inclined to purchase a reliable vehicle. 

Secondly...a vacation. If the KIDS deserve a vacation, YOU and GF take them on a vacation. Let XW sit at home and count her Amazon boxes. 

Third, if she has so many issues getting them back and forth to events that SHE agreed to, then perhaps the whole custody issue should be reviewed. I'm not saying to not spend as much time with mom, I'm saying that principal custody should be with the parent that has the best life model for the children. 

Lastly, if I was GF, I would run for the hills. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Ok...I realize it's too late but the car thing...the MOST I would have done for her would have been to put her on my AAA account. After she sat and waited for a tow a couple of times, she might have been more inclined to purchase a reliable vehicle.
> 
> Secondly...a vacation. If the KIDS deserve a vacation, YOU and GF take them on a vacation. Let XW sit at home and count her Amazon boxes.
> 
> ...


Yep. He is no longer her husband, and he needs to start acting like it, especially if he wants a serious relationship with a healthy stable woman. Nor is he his ex-wife's father. She is reckless, and irresponsible with poor judgement, and it really would be in the best interest of the kids and their overall well being to be with the more responsible parent.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

NotLettingGo said:


> No. She came by the house after work last week. She was very quiet. Picked up her phone charger and a couple of things and told me she needed a break from us. She'd call me when she was ready to talk.


She's letting you know loud and clear that she is not ok with your relationship with your ex. If I were you, I'd tell her the next time you two talk that the book His Needs, Her Needs in Parenting was recommended to you and you're reading it to learn how to better handle these situations with your ex when they come up, that you're working on establishing better boundaries so you can move forward in your relationship with your fiancé and learn how to make joint decisions in parenting with her in the future. 

https://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her-Parents-Keeping/dp/0800759362


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm not going to argue about the safety issues - that's the card people play when they're trying to justify being helicopter parents. But this new info about how much money the ex actually DOES bring in - this is disturbing to say the least. @NotLettingGo, why, if you're paying support, do you not have more details about her finances? It sounds like you do get what I am trying to say about letting go of these things as far as the kids are concerned. The tough part is going to be LIVING it.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> Yep. He is no longer her husband, and he needs to start acting like it, especially if he wants a serious relationship with a healthy stable woman. Nor is he his ex-wife's father. She is reckless, and irresponsible with poor judgement, and it really would be in the best interest of the kids and their overall well being to be with the more responsible parent.




Could not agree more. I raised my 2 sons solo and with little to no child support, a full time job and a part time job on the weekends. I never missed their events and I never signed them up for more than I could handle. They are still young adults but both are self-sustaining and contributors to society. Currently, these kids have no boundaries and are learning that when times get tough, just call dad. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

NotLettingGo said:


> No. She came by the house after work last week. She was very quiet. Picked up her phone charger and a couple of things and told me she needed a break from us. She'd call me when she was ready to talk.


Not a good sign. Sorry. Longer your GF is away from this situation, at least in my mind, she will see that there is a lot on her plate that is served up by you. I don't mean that negatively. You have kids, XW and paying mortgages(everything) for all. Your GF might realize that this is not for her.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> I'm not going to argue about the safety issues - that's the card people play when they're trying to justify being helicopter parents. But this new info about how much money the ex actually DOES bring in - this is disturbing to say the least. @NotLettingGo, why, if you're paying support, do you not have more details about her finances? It sounds like you do get what I am trying to say about letting go of these things as far as the kids are concerned. The tough part is going to be LIVING it.




I get the safety issue too but there are other options of support other than pulling an Oprah. YOU get a new car!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> I get the safety issue too but there are other options of support other than pulling an Oprah. YOU get a new car!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




She's probably on Amazon right now looking for a pair of heals that match the new car. Ugh! I feel so sorry for the GF that has invested 2 years of her life and for the kids that probably love her at this point. 

ETA: and sorry for GF that probably loves these children as her own by now. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Your divorce is just on paper--you're still married to this so-called ex-wife! I mean, besides seeing her less often now, what's different about your current relationship with her than before divorce? I wager little.

Fact is, this relationship with your ex crosses lines and is completely inappropriate. You continue this relationship. You justify this relationship. Where will it end?

My guess is that you'll either wise up and cut this down to size, or you'll continue overstepping bounds with your ex to the point of serious financial distress (you'll be broke) and relational ruin (your girlfriend will be long gone). Please, as suggested already, pay your ex no more than you're legally obligated to. 

If you really want to help your ex, get her plugged into a budgeting class that helps her manage her personal finances better, or buy her a triple-A membership if her car might break down. She won't learn to fish for herself if you keep bringing her your catch.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Jessica38 said:


> She's letting you know loud and clear that she is not ok with your relationship with your ex. If I were you, I'd tell her the next time you two talk that the book His Needs, Her Needs in Parenting was recommended to you and you're reading it to learn how to better handle these situations with your ex when they come up, that you're working on establishing better boundaries so you can move forward in your relationship with your fiancé and learn how to make joint decisions in parenting with her in the future.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her-Parents-Keeping/dp/0800759362


I also think that No More Mister Nice Guy wouldn't hurt either...for self improvement in leading to future relationships.

The more time I spend pondering this, I keep coming to the inevitable conclusion that the relationship with the GF is over. Yeah, she may come back for a bit, but in the long run, I just don't see this as sustainable. Too many situations with the ex will keep coming up, and I have a feeling that if the OP makes any move towards changing the support situation, the ex could get very nasty. She's a spoiled immature, irresponsible womanchild. 

Old habits are hard to break, and five years post divorce...that is a long pattern of behaviour to break, especially with the ready rationalization of the kids.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

_anonymous_ said:


> Your divorce is just on paper--you're still married to this so-called ex-wife! I mean, besides seeing her less often now, what's different about your current relationship with her than before divorce? I wager little.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I like this other than riding on my AAA coat tails. lol 

I heard my notifications going off all afternoon but was too busy to see what was going on. Really surprised that someone didn't pick up on it sooner. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

OMGoodness.. It's you being too nice (with $$$) with the ex.. Just pay what your required too and that's it. My sister had a long-term boyfriend, both of them were successful BUT he was a constant ATM to his adult children and his ex. His mom even needed beer money in her old age!!! I understand being nice but sometimes people need to help themselves. My sister loved this guy but had to walk away because he couldn't see the harm in it and she didn't want to take care of all these people financially if they were to marry.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> I also think that No More Mister Nice Guy wouldn't hurt either...for self improvement in leading to future relationships.
> 
> The more time I spend pondering this, I keep coming to the inevitable conclusion that the relationship with the GF is over. Yeah, she may come back for a bit, but in the long run, I just don't see this as sustainable. Too many situations with the ex will keep coming up, and I have a feeling that if the OP makes any move towards changing the support situation, the ex could get very nasty. She's a spoiled immature, irresponsible womanchild.
> 
> Old habits are hard to break, and five years post divorce...that is a long pattern of behaviour to break, especially with the ready rationalization of the kids.


I'm willing to bet he can win his GF over by showing her he is willing to implement boundaries and make his GF the priority in his life.

OP, you sound like a great dad who cares deeply about his children. Your GF is not going to let you go that easily, but she is going to want reassurance that she has a future with you, where you consider her opinions and ideas before making parenting/ex decisions.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> I'm willing to bet he can win his GF over by showing her he is willing to implement boundaries and make his GF the priority in his life.
> 
> 
> 
> OP, you sound like a great dad who cares deeply about his children. Your GF is not going to let you go that easily, but she is going to want reassurance that she has a future with you, where you consider her opinions and ideas before making parenting/ex decisions.




After a 2 year engagement? Give me an effin break. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Look...I can get why she hung in there but after 2 years of her life that she can't get back? She has given him ample enough time to prove his loyalty to her. His loyalty is still with the former marriage. 

Seriously....2 years? Think about it. 

She's a smart girl. And loving. I would LOVE to hear from HER at this point. 

IMHO...she has given him enough fishing line to hang himself. And he has done it quite efficiently. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Elizabeth001 said:


> After a 2 year engagement? Give me an effin break.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because caring quality men grow on trees? Give me an Effin' break :wtf:


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> Because caring quality men grow on trees? Give me an Effin' break :wtf:




To whom is his caring and quality efforts are directed to? Not the GF...that's for sure. And definitely not the kids. If they were in the right place, I would give this guy a thumbs up. Right now, he sounds like a paycheck and a doormat for the XW. And the new lady (who's doing everything right) keeps taking "one for the team". Yeah...right up the a$$. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

My post was simply in response to your post with my quote. 

I've already covered ways the OP can address this with his GF, who I'm sure has stuck around for 2 years because he is someone who obviously cares deeply for his children and I'm sure he shows her great care and concern as well, or she would have been out of there ages ago. The world needs more people who care about others, IMO. I wouldn't be attracted to a guy who showed no concern for the mother of his children simply because she is in charge of his children when he's not. That said, he's learning how to establish boundaries, and it likely takes a woman like his GF to help him grow in this area. 

Yes, many times our partner helps us grow as a person. To me, as long as you're learning and moving forward in your relationship, it's worth the effort.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> My post was simply in response to your post with my quote.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Careful...that may be crossing the line of mother/child dynamic. I don't think this woman wants to parent her partner. She left and needs space right?

I reiterate...she has spent 2years of her life investing and trying to make this situation work. Do you suggest counseling before they are even married? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

I made several suggestions to the OP that he commented that he's trying to do, and none of them included counseling, though certainly pre-marital counseling could benefit most couples, especially those in blended families. 

And, no, I don't see any concern that the OP is trying to be "mothered" by his GF who is essentially setting a higher bar in the relationship if it is to move forward. Many couples benefit from input from their partner when it comes to finding solutions, which is why we often say two minds are better than one


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I have a feeling that GF has made many suggestions that have been disregarded. 

I am of the opinion that if you need counseling BEFORE marriage, that it a doomed marriage from the start. If you need help communicating basic needs, you're screwed from the start. Communication is key. 

ETA: GF left before assuming the "mom" roll and good for her!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NotLettingGo (Jun 8, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> I'm willing to bet he can win his GF over by showing her he is willing to implement boundaries and make his GF the priority in his life.
> 
> OP, you sound like a great dad who cares deeply about his children. Your GF is not going to let you go that easily, but she is going to want reassurance that she has a future with you, where you consider her opinions and ideas before making parenting/ex decisions.


Things working out. Wanted to say thank you for your genuine, sincere advice.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

NotLettingGo said:


> Things working out. Wanted to say thank you for your genuine, sincere advice.


Great! Make the GF your number 1. Include her in everything.


----------

