# Having intent...........



## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

OK....I am not sure if I am being picky here but if a person decides to hook up later for an affair and whether or not followed through with it, to me they already checked out and doesn't matter. Am I right on this viewpoint?


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

Augusto said:


> OK....I am not sure if I am being picky here but if a person decides to hook up later for an affair and whether or not followed through with it, to me they already checked out and doesn't matter. Am I right on this viewpoint?


maybe... depends... one and a half foot out the door... possibly

but the problem is already there since you cant just go pa without ea.

ea takes a lot of time to turn to pa.

60-75% checked out

complete your story..


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The question is basically is thought a betrayal/sin (or a "crime"). 

If a person decides to hook up, but then does not hook up, I guess they really did not decide to hook up. 

I believe that actions count a LOT MORE than thoughts. We all have thoughts would have all in a lot of trouble were we tried and convicted based on thought.

I do agree that if a person is thinking about cheating, then there is a serious problem. They need to address why they are having the thoughts and fix it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

eastsouth2000 said:


> maybe... depends... one and a half foot out the door... possibly
> 
> but the problem is already there since you cant just go pa without ea.
> 
> ...


Some affairs are not EA at all. Some are truly only about getting sex on the side.

Plus there are things that we do not consider affairs but are still cheating... using prostitutes, one-night stands, etc.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Hmm, interesting topic though.

Your not a cheater because you cheated. Only a cheater would cheat, so you were a cheater at heart, your actions only serve as a window to what you already are in the heart.

Stealing doesn't make you a thief.
You would have to be a thief to steal.

Ele...
Betrayal yes we judge by actions.
Sin is judged by hearts intent.



Matthew 5:27-28 said:


> “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Most any act of a heinous nature, infidelity included, can largely be attributed to some form of conspiratorial "intent!"*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Well people don't just fall on your ****, right?


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## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

why would u? my late one used to say. if i feed my man at home he does not need to go to restaurant? it was so true.
intend to cheat comes from not having what you desire at home


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I believe that actions count a LOT MORE than thoughts. We all have thoughts would have all in a lot of trouble were we tried and convicted based on thought.
> 
> I do agree that if a person is thinking about cheating, then there is a serious problem. They need to address why they are having the thoughts and fix it.


This is true. If you are pondering cheating that is your clue to an issue. Start with the simple question:

1. Why do I want to cheat?


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## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

er15 said:


> why would u? my late one used to say. if i feed my man at home he does not need to go to restaurant? it was so true.
> intend to cheat comes from not having what you desire at home


OR it could be and often is a matter of not having what you need within your own skin......Low self esteem, the need for an ego boost, the need for approval of the opposite sex. ALL of those are seen here over and over. Many WS' say they were happy with their spouses and there was little they could have done to prevent the A bc it was a problem they had with themselves. Many phsychologists agree on this in fact. 

While no marriage is perfect - even good marriages have infidelity bc of the broken inside of one of the spouses.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

gouge_away said:


> Hmm, interesting topic though.
> 
> Your not a cheater because you cheated. Only a cheater would cheat, so you were a cheater at heart, your actions only serve as a window to what you already are in the heart.
> 
> ...


Isn't lustful intent automatic?


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> Isn't lustful intent automatic?


I don't know....


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Augusto said:


> OK....I am not sure if I am being picky here but if a person decides to hook up later for an affair and whether or not followed through with it, to me they already checked out and doesn't matter. Am I right on this viewpoint?


You are completely wrong. By your standard, anybody who looks at an attractive person, and thinks of him/her in a sexual way, is already guilty of adultery, or anybody who wishes that they could take all of the money in their bank, is already guilty of robbery. Preposterous..


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> You are completely wrong. By your standard, anybody who looks at an attractive person, and thinks of him/her in a sexual way, is already guilty of adultery, or anybody who wishes that they could take all of the money in their bank, is already guilty of robbery. Preposterous..


Not so sure....there are laws for convicting child pedophiles for eye contact alone and never touching a child. Strange I know but a child can actually become a victim of sexual molestation because a pedophile can look at a child and somehow get sexually gratified by it. At least that is what some laws state in much of the US.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

You will have to prove that, because I don't believe it. If the offender does nothing but look at the child, and nothing else, how would anybody prove intent? It would be impossible to do so. This sounds like some kind of Urban legend, to me.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Augusto said:


> OK....I am not sure if I am being picky here but if a person decides to hook up later for an affair and whether or not followed through with it, to me they already checked out and doesn't matter. Am I right on this viewpoint?


...I see your point, and kinda agree with it.

To me its the same as the difference between murder and attempted murder. Its like we are rewarding the criminal for being a bad shot, even though they were trying to murder the other person. Either way, they are the same type of evil. 

I suppose with your question it also depends on why the hookup never happened in the future. Deciding not to follow thru may very well mean that they were always somewhat hesitant about crossing that line. That's less evil than having no second thoughts.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

oneMOreguy said:


> ...I see your point, and kinda agree with it.
> 
> To me its the same as the difference between murder and attempted murder. Its like we are rewarding the criminal for being a bad shot, even though they were trying to murder the other person. Either way, they are the same type of evil.
> 
> I suppose with your question it also depends on why the hookup never happened in the future. Deciding not to follow thru may very well mean that they were always somewhat hesitant about crossing that line. That's less evil than having no second thoughts.


I believe fear is one of the most complex emotions, especially when it comes to protecting ourselves from ourselves.

Sometimes fear can be mistaken for willpower, when fear of consequences usurps intent. Consequences are not always external; cognitive dissonance.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

gouge_away said:


> I believe fear is one of the most complex emotions, especially when it comes to protecting ourselves from ourselves.
> 
> Sometimes fear can be mistaken for willpower, when fear of consequences usurps intent. Consequences are not always external; cognitive dissonance.


.....you have taken this into a very complex level.....in a good way.

fear, also called the avoidance of pain...........versus, willpower......the desire to achieve something good, or retain something good, like one's marriage. Although these thoughts may end up at the same place, there really is a lot of difference between the two approaches. In some ways it cuts into the concept of how the individual approaches life in general. You have given me something to ponder over....thanks.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> You will have to prove that, because I don't believe it. If the offender does nothing but look at the child, and nothing else, how would anybody prove intent? It would be impossible to do so. This sounds like some kind of Urban legend, to me.




Talk to California Law my friend. I have a brother in the system for similar. Looking or touching(can be hair on head or feet with shoes on for a split second) can be considered sexual molestation if that individual got sexual gratification from it. Ask any DA in the country. You don't have to expose and body part or touch any body part. If you are a male and you touch a kids hair on their head and your johnson grows out(or having to change undies for females), you have sexually molested a child. I did not believe it either until my brother got hit with it.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

There's 2 sides to every story.


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## SA2015 (Aug 25, 2015)

the way i seen it many times...when a woman cheats she mostly checked out already, because is pretty rarely that women cheat out of pure lusting. 
while men is like 50/50 chance. some of them checked out, some of them not. most men want to keep both....the cake and the pieces.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Augusto said:


> Talk to California Law my friend. I have a brother in the system for similar. Looking or touching(can be hair on head or feet with shoes on for a split second) can be considered sexual molestation if that individual got sexual gratification from it. Ask any DA in the country. You don't have to expose and body part or touch any body part. If you are a male and you touch a kids hair on their head and your johnson grows out(or having to change undies for females), you have sexually molested a child. I did not believe it either until my brother got hit with it.


You said, in your original post , just looking, which would be impossible to prove. Now you say touching, which is far easier to prove.But none of this proves your point, at all. No physical contact, no communication....no foul.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

I disagree with this as well. I believe the difference to be that of self control combined with desire. If one gazes upon a beautiful woman there are certain instinctual responses that occur. These are uncontrollable and automatic. This is where the cognitive ability steps in, if there is any. Higher thought examines the what the mind is proposing and reasons out whether or not to continue to entertain the thought and possibly act on it if the opportunity arises or is caused to occur.

We are all "cheaters" in our baser instincts, as we evolved that way so as to propagate the species. Monogamy is a condition of our higher thought process and the reason so many have difficulty with it is because they lack development in higher thought ability but I digress. As the higher thoughts examine the baser thought it is soon relegated to the realm of impractical, undoable , unattainable, immoral and so forth except in those incapable of this filtering.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> Augusto said:
> 
> 
> > Talk to California Law my friend. I have a brother in the system for similar. Looking or touching(can be hair on head or feet with shoes on for a split second) can be considered sexual molestation if that individual got sexual gratification from it. Ask any DA in the country. You don't have to expose and body part or touch any body part. If you are a male and you touch a kids hair on their head and your johnson grows out(or having to change undies for females), you have sexually molested a child. I did not believe it either until my brother got hit with it.
> ...



You set it up on line with child and the police may come knocking. Attempted sexual assault of a child. I supervise one.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

Isn't it about mens rea and actus reus? For a crime to occur you must have both the thought and the deed. You can only legislate behaviour, you cannot control the mind. As another poster said, the law is neither morals nor values. In such a case the thought can be sin, and the issue will stay within the individual.
I coach high school girls rugby (you have some great teams in the States). When I started in the 80's touching as part of explaining the game and hugging after the game when the girls won, or an arm around the shoulder in consolation was acceptable, but only in "Fatherly" or "Mentoring"way. It is now school board policy that you cannot touch your players, except in clearly prescribed way and publicly.
It is illegal for a person to access any site containing child porn, and if you should do so by accident, (I discovered internet porn when I was doing research on Quebec Independence, and ended up on a site with naked pictures and video of Quebecois having sex), you had better have a good excuse. Apparently Pete Townsend, of the Who, was doing research on child abuse and found himself connected to a child porn site. Some days later the police arrived at the door. Peter was hard pressed to keep himself out of prison. 
If I am correct, and I am no IT person, but I do teach Law, a site in Finland was set up so that you could connect with the site and it would block the IP address of the user computer and allow the user to access sites, world wide and be untraceable. The "server" (?) was raided and forced to give up the addresses of its users. The police expected to find normal criminals like drug dealers, Nigerian Scams and ponsie schemes. What they found (in addition to these guys) were the IP addresses of hundreds of thousands of pedophiles using illegal child porn sites, from videos and pictures to hook ups. The Metropolitan Toronto Police Service has reported that some 1,500 users of child porn sites have been arrested as a result of information distributed by Interpol. Apparently arrests world wide are in the 100,000s
As to the infidelity piece, Its very much that there seem to be levels, or steps on the way. 1.) some sort of issue in the marriage that would cause a spouse to think cheating might be a solution. 2.) actually putting a profile on a dating site, but feeling uncomfortable about it and not following through, to 3) Making the contacts on the site, but not actually meeting the POSOM(W) 4.) to making a connection by text, Chat, Email, phone, arranging to meet and meeting for sex and socializing.
Which brings us back to Mens Rea and Actus Reus, the act and the deed. At what point is it enough.


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## Dycedarg (Apr 17, 2014)

It really does depend on the context. This might seem like I'm giving an "out" for cheaters but I'm really not. If someone is in a difficult marriage, initiates a plan for exit or just escape, but then later reconsiders, and then throws themselves completely into working on their marriage, I see a lot of potential in that. 

As some have mentioned already we all have impulses. There are various points where you can stop yourself and correct your focus. There are also various points we can look to and say that person has already gone too far.


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