# Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star



## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that perfect... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

How can any woman be happy with a man after watching porn or seeing a movie with Leonardo?

Some people are able to separate fantasy from reality. Most people can, actually. But some people aren't. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

After watching porn? I've watched some and sorry, not very attractive to me? I just don't get exited by looks only. Porn focuses on the female parts, not the male. I rarely even see their face!


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

Btw, Leonardo really lol


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Most men (notice I said MOST, not ALL) are perfectly capable of realizing that porn stars and strippers exist solely to titillate them, and that their looks and bodies don't portray real women.

The men that do not realize this have a problem and need help.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Don't know what to tell you... My SO and I watch porn together, I'm guessing an average of once a week. To be honest, she probably watches it more than I do, as she enjoys the visual stimulation while I provide some physical, if you know what I mean. And I'm not built like a porn star... But I have no fears that she's fixated on a great big unit, any more than I'm fixated on a 20 year old hottie. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

catfan said:


> Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that perfect... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...


Real women are a turn on for me. I like real breasts as well. Strippers / porn stars. Not so much. Some have good bodies but I could not care less.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

catfan said:


> Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that perfect... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...


Do you think old people have sex? Do you think they enjoy each other's bodies? They love each other?

Look around you the next time you go to a mall. How many women do you see who look like porn stars? How many of these women have a man who loves them? Do think those men who love them aren't attracted to them?

Get out of your head and stop worrying about where you rank with other women. Start worrying about how well you love and how well you are loved. No porn star can even attempt to compete with that!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Do you think old people have sex? Do you think they enjoy each other's bodies? They love each other?
> 
> Look around you the next time you go to a mall. How many women do you see who look like porn stars? How many of these women have a man who loves them? Do think those men who love them aren't attracted to them?
> 
> Get out of your head and stop worrying about where you rank with other women. Start worrying about how well you love and how well you are loved. No porn star can even attempt to compete with that!


Anon!!! This^

:toast:


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Do you think old people have sex? Do you think they enjoy each other's bodies?


Well, since you've previously said your husband finds you hot . . .


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MSP said:


> Well, since you've previously said your husband finds you hot . . .


Of course he does! I AM hot!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Another woman's beauty doesn't diminish mine.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

_Of course he does! I AM hot! _

Pics are GTFO.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I've seen her, I can vouch for it. She's hot.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

catfan said:


> Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that perfect... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...


Strippers and porn stars have issues. Most guys don't want to deal with those kinds of issues in a real relationship. What guys really want is for their wives to have the apparent sex drive of a porn star, but only towards them. Very, very few guys want to share their wives with other guys. (And those guys have issues). 

How does an average woman compete? By showing her husband attention. Guys are suckers for attention, just like women are.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

_I've seen her, I can vouch for it. She's hot. _

FW, i just want to make sure you know i was kidding with Anon about that and she will know that from me. I didnt want you to think that i would call someone out on here for that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> _Of course he does! I AM hot! _
> 
> Pics are GTFO.


You first big boy!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Eagle3 said:


> FW, i just want to make sure you know i was kidding with Anon about that and she will know that from me. I didnt want you to think that i would call someone out on here for that.


Of course!

But I want YOU to know that I really have seen pics, and she really IS hot. :smthumbup:


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

_You first big boy! _

Frantically hops on to US Weekly.com to download pics of Brad Pitt to send out...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> _You first big boy! _
> 
> Frantically hops on to US Weekly.com to download pics of Brad Pitt to send out...


Oooh I found you eagle!


View attachment 22689


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

_Oooh I found you eagle!


Attachment 22689 _

Haha good one AP. Now i can tell Mrs. Eagle she can start opening her eyes again in the bedroom now!!!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

PBear said:


> How can any woman be happy with a man after watching porn?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_












Not hard to be happy really lol


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

catfan said:


> Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that perfect... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...


Is your husband Brad Pitt in his prime?
How can you be satisfied with him?

Then there are some of us who don't really appreciate surgically enhanced breasts, and facial features along with spray tanned bodies.

Some of us would rather play with a woman, not a doll.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

catfan said:


> Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that perfect... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...


My W has a better body than most of those Porn and Stripper types and she doesn't look like "Trailer Trash", with all due respect to those who live in trailers.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Porn is fast food. No matter how tasty it looks on tv and how quick to satisfy a hunger when you're starving, it's not nearly as tasty as that real beef burger you grill at home, with your own fresh onions, lettuce and tomato. Bacon and cheese optional.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Do you think old people have sex? Do you think they enjoy each other's bodies? They love each other?
> 
> Look around you the next time you go to a mall. How many women do you see who look like porn stars? How many of these women have a man who loves them? Do think those men who love them aren't attracted to them?
> 
> Get out of your head and stop worrying about where you rank with other women. Start worrying about how well you love and how well you are loved. No porn star can even attempt to compete with that!


Well put, AP.

As a teenager, pornography had the effect it intended, but it never makes real-life women less attractive.

Porn doesn't run its little fingers through your hair while talking nonsense, or smile at you, or warm you on a rainy day. It doesn't go places with you and laugh at your jokes and make you feel clever.

If you watch an advert for pizza (fantasy), it makes you hungry, but it makes you hungry for _real _pizza in general, not the specific pizza you see in the advert. 

There is not a comparison process going on (like there seems to be when wives talk about husbands). 

Woman = pizza.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Here are just two studies that show that porn use (even casual) can have a negative impact on mens perception of their partners.

Weaver, J., Masland, J. L., & Zillmann, D. (1984). Effect of erotica on young men’s aesthetic perception of their female sexual partners. Perceptual and Motor Skills, 58, 929-930.

Zillmann, D. & Bryant, J. (1988). Pornography’s impact on sexual satisfaction. Journal of Applied Social Psychology, 18, 438-453.

You will find lots of reasons why porn is awesome on this site but there are many studies that say the exact opposite. I am happy to see so many men saying it has not affected them


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

You got that from here?

Talking Points: Pornography and Relationship Damage Research | Porn Harms Research by Morality in Media

I would prefer to read the original studies rather than "porn harms research dot com"'s 'helpful' bullet list.

Devil's in the detail.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

FemBot said:


> You will find lots of reasons why porn is awesome on this site but there are many studies that say the exact opposite. I am happy to see so many men saying it has not affected them


Oh, no. Not again.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Seriously, though, the battle is everywhere. These days you can see as much skin on display at the local mall as you saw a few decades ago in a pin-up mag. 

What's the solution? Poke your husbands' eyes out with forks. It's the kindest thing to do. 

Oh, wait. I was supposed to be being serious. Okay, the only solution is to ramp up the bonding behaviours between wives and husbands. The thrill of something new can only be held at bay by that. This means sex three times every day.

(Dammit. Serious, MSP, stay serious).


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Sandfly said:


> You got that from here?
> 
> Talking Points: Pornography and Relationship Damage Research | Porn Harms Research by Morality in Media
> 
> ...


I didn't get it from there. It wouldn't be impossible to believe that this study would be quoted on many sites to show harmful effects of porn on relationships.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

MSP said:


> Seriously, though, the battle is everywhere. These days you can see as much skin on display at the local mall as you saw a few decades ago in a pin-up mag.
> 
> What's the solution? Poke your husbands' eyes out with forks. It's the kindest thing to do.
> 
> ...


OR....

You could get your husband to stop watching porn and strippers? What does going to the mall have to do with porn and strippers? Oh yes I forgot men are horny beasts that cannot stop themselves from beating off to images of new naked, young women daily...it's science afterall.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TiggyBlue said:


> Not hard to be happy really lol


Is he an Evangelist ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

FemBot said:


> OR....
> 
> You could get your husband to stop watching porn and strippers? What does going to the mall have to do with porn and strippers? Oh yes I forgot men are horny beasts that cannot stop themselves from beating off to images of new naked, young women daily...it's science afterall.


Or you could go to the strip club with him and watch porn with him.

The body is beautiful, enjoy it!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Physical beauty may get my attention briefly, but far more is needed to keep it.

If that weren't true for almost all men, any man who had seen a beautiful woman anywhere would be ruined for life - and that is obviously false.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Or you could go to the strip club with him and watch porn with him.
> 
> The body is beautiful, enjoy it!


It's so funny that you say this. It makes me laugh every time a woman says this, thinking to herself "gosh I am so enlightened that I enjoy objectifying others for my amusement". I feel bad for the men and women in porn and for those stripping when most of them come from really bad childhoods filled with abuse and neglect. Somehow it's just not arousing to me. I enjoy sex full heartedly but never at someone else's expense. Educate yourself FFS.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

FemBot said:


> I didn't get it from there. It wouldn't be impossible to believe that this study would be quoted on many sites to show harmful effects of porn on relationships.


Regardless,

do you have a link to the original studies?

Have you actually read the studies? 

or have you just accepted your source's summary one-liner at face value? Curious.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

FemBot said:


> It's so funny that you say this. It makes me laugh every time a woman says this, thinking to herself "gosh I am so enlightened that I enjoy objectifying others for my amusement". I feel bad for the men and women in porn and for those stripping when most of them come from really bad childhoods filled with abuse and neglect. Somehow it's just not arousing to me. I enjoy sex full heartedly but never at someone else's expense. Educate yourself FFS.


Compassion comes in many forms. 

Do you also feel sorry for the poor schlep working the night shift at 7-11? Or how about the people at Walmart? If that man or woman was built enough and hot enough, believe you and me, they'd be stripping for bouncing! No one twists their arms to strip. It's great money. 

Porn is a different story. Those chicks are exhibitionists to the core. They don't stumble into porn having been a shy farm girl! They're hot, they want the money and they like the attention.

Prostitution has been around since the dawn of man. It always will be around. When we stop looking down on sex workers and stop assuming they've had traumatic childhoods, then they are empowered. When we stop acting like a porn star is damaged goods, they'll stop being damaged good.


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## jay1365 (May 22, 2013)

Studies have shown that men mostly watch women's faces when watching porn. The thing that used to turn me on when I watched porn was the women's enthusiasm (although fake) and willingness to try anything, the two things most lacking in my relationship. Frankly after you've seen enough boobs and a**, they all start to look the same and it boils down to personality, enthusiasm, and desire.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

Sure strippers/porn stars have idealised almost perfect bodies that are visually appealing. 

I find the 'open access' sexuality far more appealing than the actual visual phenomenon. 

To get sex in real life takes a lot of pampering, nurturing,emotional bonding and providing and is still not guaranteed to result in sex. It can be an exhausting pursuit with a shut off wife.

Sometimes its nice to get into a sexual space without major effort or rejection. 

Most people realise its fantasy and just use it as relief.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Compassion comes in many forms.
> 
> Do you also feel sorry for the poor schlep working the night shift at 7-11? Or how about the people at Walmart? If that man or woman was built enough and hot enough, believe you and me, they'd be stripping for bouncing! No one twists their arms to strip. It's great money.
> 
> ...


You REALLY need to educate yourself. Wake up. Stripping is not great money. You are completely asleep and assuming things based in zero knowledge of the facts. Have you ever taken a University course in psychology? I ask because you can't even critically think about what you are saying. What would it take for you to feel numb enough to have sex on camera for money or strip for men? We are talking violent acts of degradation here on camera. Stripping for men you don't know, grinding into their laps until they ejaculate. Does that sound like fun? How numb would you have to be? 

You will say "oh I could never do that I'm not a wh0re like THEY are"....no my friend you have self respect and that is the difference. I am under no illusions that people who are completely asleep tell themselves this so they can objectify others for their own pleasure. You are living in a fantasy land!


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Sandfly said:


> Regardless,
> 
> do you have a link to the original studies?
> 
> ...


Yes I have. I cannot remember the exact numbers but I believe the studies were done with 350 college aged people. One group exposed to light amounts of porn and one group exposed to heavy amounts and one group none at all. The groups who were exposed to porn rated dissatisfaction with their current partners physical appearance...among other things. In this particular study, if I remember correctly, they found so many negative consequences for viewing porn it was deemed unethical to proceed. This is mainly why porn can rarely be studied and no study has ever shown benefits. I wish I knew where to find the abstract again to post for you. Some of it I got through University and is written in psychological text books. It has also been well documented that porn viewing increases mens tolerance for violence against women. Somehow everyone chooses to ignore the science in this area...i guess it helps to ignore it so you can blow your load.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

catfan said:


> Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that perfect... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...


I think that in spite of what men say about being mostly visual creatures,the majority of them really do need the whole package to feel deep attraction. When they're looking at strippers and porn girls it's a shallow attraction...fleeting with no chance of becoming a concrete attraction that lasts.

A stripper might be smokin hot bc of her body but that's where it ends. Your man thinks you're smokin hot bc you've got it all even if your body is "flawed"...chances are the things you perceive as flaws are incredibly sexy from his point of view.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think that in spite of what men say about being mostly visual creatures,the majority of them really do need the whole package to feel deep attraction. When they're looking at strippers and porn girls it's a shallow attraction...fleeting with no chance of becoming a concrete attraction that lasts.
> 
> A stripper might be smokin hot bc of her body but that's where it ends. Your man thinks you're smokin hot bc you've got it all even if your body is "flawed"...chances are the things you perceive as flaws are incredibly sexy from his point of view.


Some of those "flaws" are what makes the "average" woman hot.
You couldn't pay me to be with those "perfect" women.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TiggyBlue said:


> Not hard to be happy really lol


I always thought he had the nicest smile and prettiest eyes  lol I watched him on some mtv reality show once and actually really enjoyed his personality


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I always thought he had the nicest smile and prettiest eyes  lol I watched him on some mtv reality show once and actually really enjoyed his personality


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Compassion comes in many forms.
> 
> Do you also feel sorry for the poor schlep working the night shift at 7-11? Or how about the people at Walmart? If that man or woman was built enough and hot enough, believe you and me, they'd be stripping for bouncing! No one twists their arms to strip. It's great money.
> 
> ...


I feel sorry for the people working in WALMART. I think it's terrible that they are not paid properly. I try to shop ethically to help combat those issues. 

To say no one twists their arm to strip, is not completely accurate. Studies do show that those in the sex industry are far more likely to be uneducated, extremely poor. They also show that women women are faced with support and better choices, decent paid jobs and the change at a good education that they are far less likely to end up in the sex industry. 

We can all pretend we have free choice, however where we come from and what we have access to greatly effects out life chances. It's easy to pretend poor people want to be poor and sex workers really want that life, however there is plenty of evidence when given equity access and real,choice that it's just not the case at all. 

Moreover many porn stars are proven to be underage, the industry is not regulated properly and (I have posted links to this before), many women who sex slaves are trafficked into the porn industry. They are also often coerced into taking drugs and, often raped when making films. 

I could go on, but it's pretty awful stuff. I'm not at all comfortable with what the sex industry does to women. 

Moreover porn films make more then most hollywood movies, yet the actresses are largely paid around $7-8000 per film. They rarely get rich unless they start producing films and exploiting women too. 

And to say sex workers are mostly empowered is just a joke- you may get the odd one who does it to feel "empowered" but by and large it's usually because women are desperate for money., drug addicted, in abusive relationship with pimp or a sex traffic victim. 


http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/p...ent-bulletin/march_2011/human_sex_trafficking

If you read the link above from the FBI, you will see that they see the sex slave trade as a huge problem for women/girls and some men. 

However most people tell themselves whatever suits, so they don't have to feel bad for the degradation and terrible treatment of women in the sex industry.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

what do you feel should be done to fix this problem? More government interference and laws to babysit everyone? Would that help the victims stop being victims or will it just foster an even greater victim mentality?


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> what do you feel should be done to fix this problem? More government interference and laws to babysit everyone? Would that help the victims stop being victims or will it just foster an even greater victim mentality?


What do you mean by victim mentality?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> What do you mean by victim mentality?


well sometimes people,not all the time and not all the people,tend to feel their life will never get better no matter how many things are handed to them.Their life SHOULD be getting better with all the help they're receiving but they're so used to being a victim that it's the only role they find acceptable.They'll walk away from help and go right back to where they feel the most comfortable and to what feels the most familiar.They'll keep themselves a victim regardless of what the community does to help.Then they will sit and blame the world for their sorry lot in life.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> well sometimes people,not all the time and not all the people,tend to feel their life will never get better no matter how many things are handed to them.Their life SHOULD be getting better with all the help they're receiving but they're so used to being a victim that it's the only role they find acceptable.They'll walk away from help and go right back to where they feel the most comfortable and to what feels the most familiar.They'll keep themselves a victim regardless of what the community does to help.Then they will sit and blame the world for their sorry lot in life.


Some people may do that. *shrug*

It's a multi layered issue, that takes caring about the poor and disadvantaged, who are largely made up of women and children. You need to do many things to stop the poverty cycle, this increases people's life chances and makes it much more likely that they and their children and future generations will have far better opportunities and are so many times less likely to live in poverty.

Firstly it means investing in welfare. Most people hate this because they think it means people have children to get welfare and that poor people are lazy and so on. However this is proven not to be the case. There may be a some of people who abuse the system, but that happens in every program or every job or any position anywhere, and we don't stop investing in everything else or employing everyone else just in case. Same goes for welfare, which if invested in poorly, keeps people poor and often immobile and working against them. 

But proper investment in welfare means that women and children can have a roof over their heads and not end up homeless, whilst bettering their situation. It means they can eat and pay the electricity bill etc. and in countries that do it well it means investment in education or training for single parents that are in poverty or at risk of living in poverty can have a much greater chance of overcoming the odds. 

Most other countries that do it well, also have a decent minimum wage, people aren't rich on it, but they don't have to claim welfare either. Where I live if you have a full time job on minimum wage you can survive, and don't need welfare. 

It also means investing in public education to ensure all children really do have access to a decent education, even if their parents aren't rich, and supports for students. Also affordable college or free degrees, so that even the poorest person has a real shot at improving their life. 

We also have subsidised childcare here in my country, and everyone no matter what you earn gets half of everything you spend on childcare back. This makes child care affordable, so that people can actually work and still eat etc and know their children are safe. It helps ensure women can go to work, and study.

There are so many things. however I think it's easier for most to ridicule poor people and blame them, much like women in the sex trade, then to look at the structural inequality that causes this kind of divide and poverty or "bad choices" to begin with. 

At the end of the day, you can't help everyone, but you can truly help level the playing field for the most disadvantaged who are having to start the race 300 metres behind the starting block of others, so to speak. 

JMO


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

FemBot said:


> You REALLY need to educate yourself. Wake up. Stripping is not great money. You are completely asleep and assuming things based in zero knowledge of the facts. Have you ever taken a University course in psychology? I ask because you can't even critically think about what you are saying. What would it take for you to feel numb enough to have sex on camera for money or strip for men? We are talking violent acts of degradation here on camera. Stripping for men you don't know, grinding into their laps until they ejaculate. Does that sound like fun? How numb would you have to be?
> 
> You will say "oh I could never do that I'm not a wh0re like THEY are"....no my friend you have self respect and that is the difference. I am under no illusions that people who are completely asleep tell themselves this so they can objectify others for their own pleasure. You are living in a fantasy land!


Would you agree that women in the sex industry are typically not educated? Excluding those unfortunate souls brought to this country illegally and subsequently coerced into working in the sex industry.

And what job pathway do uneducated women have available to them?

So if an uneducated woman doesn't want to work at Walmart for minimum wage what other options might she look for if she needed/wanted to make more money?

Yes, I have taken 6 university level psy classes, but that was 30 some years ago. I have also taken an addition 21 CEUs over the years.




*LittleDeer* said:


> I feel sorry for the people working in WALMART. I think it's terrible that they are not paid properly. I try to shop ethically to help combat those issues.
> 
> To say no one twists their arm to strip, is not completely accurate. Studies do show that those in the sex industry are far more likely to be uneducated, extremely poor. They also show that women women are faced with support and better choices, decent paid jobs and the change at a good education that they are far less likely to end up in the sex industry.
> 
> ...


Let's not turn this thread into a soap box on human trafficking. It is a horrible thing, so horrible I have to turn away from hearing or learning about it because it makes me physically ill to contemplate it.

The porn industry is much better regulated than the prostitution industry.

Sex for sale should not be illegal IMO. If it was legalized it could be better regulated, women would be better protected, human trafficking would not be taking place, so much, here in the US, and the government would get more money in taxes.

I never suggested sex workers were empowered.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Let's not turn this thread into a soap box on human trafficking. It is a horrible thing, so horrible I have to turn away from hearing or learning about it because it makes me physically ill to contemplate it.
> 
> The porn industry is much better regulated than the prostitution industry.
> 
> ...


A soap box thread because I have proof that human sex slaves end up in the sex industry? Umm yeah ok

That's the problem, people's orgasm comes ahead of being humane, and recognising the terrible treatment of others. It makes me sick too, but I would rather know and not contribute to something so awful. 

I have posted a link on here before from the US government discussing how sex traffic victims end up in in prostitution and pornography. Thousands and thousands of them, will see if I can find it. But it will be ignored and I will just be on my soap box again. 

I don't think the answer is to legalise the degradation and commodification of women. In fact in countries where it's legal, people still practice illegally. Something that has had some success is legalising it for the women (and giving them real support, to help the move on if they wish), but arresting and punishing the Johns. Sending the message that when women are desperate we won't punish them for things that are usually beyond their control, but we will punish men or women who choose to exploit and commodify others. 

Again if we support and educate those that have the least, and offer real empathy and opportunity, to others, we end up with happier healthier, well educated citizens, who pay more taxes any way.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

jay1365 said:


> Studies have shown that men mostly watch women's faces when watching porn. The thing that used to turn me on when I watched porn was the women's enthusiasm (although fake) and willingness to try anything, the two things most lacking in my relationship. Frankly after you've seen enough boobs and a**, they all start to look the same and it boils down to personality, enthusiasm, and desire.


Bingo!!. I cant believe no one else commented on this. Nail Head.

Porn is about a woman who is into sex beyond under the covers with the lights off. Get it done quickly. And really into it. Like actually wants to have sex into it.

I know there are all kinds of men out there and all kinds of porn (some very f!cked up im sure). But in general terms, I dont think this is off at all. MOST guys like it for the enthusiasm and desire. And a little beyond missionary get it done sex.

Try that with your man or wife for that matter. Bet he or she isnt giving a sh!t about whether the body is "perfect" or not.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

catfan said:


> Btw, Leonardo really lol


The point is that (almost) everyone men and women regardless of their porn usage is exposed to more attractive people and it does not ruin their ability to have sex with other average people. 

My wife does not look like a porn star and I am not the perfect male specimen either. I just do not judge women against the porn or fashion standard and just generally like the female body in all it's forms within a fairly wide range.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Wait a minute! I was supposed to ejaculate from all those lap dances?!?! I want my money back!!

Seriously, the most beautiful, rockin body porn star or stripper can't even compete with an "average" woman who loves you, cares for you, and truly WANTS you. Enthusiasm and desire are EVERYTHING!! Show him you need *him*. Make your man feel like the most desirable man in the world and you will become the most desirable woman in the world in his eyes. The woman he wouldn't trade for ANYTHING! That's my feelings anyway, and I'd say it goes for many if not most men.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

usmarriedguy said:


> The point is that (almost) everyone men and women regardless of their porn usage is exposed to more attractive people and it does not ruin their ability to have sex with other average people.
> 
> My wife does not look like a porn star and I am not the perfect male specimen either. I just do not judge women against the porn or fashion standard and just generally like the female body in all it's forms within a fairly wide range.


Big difference to finding a certain movie star attractive, and using a different one every night or even several nights a week, all younger, fitter, bigger ****ed then my partner to get myself off. 
A never ending stream of them. 

And in fact there have been quite a few peer reviewed studies done that show a massive correlation to men being less interested and less attractive to their spouse if they are regular porn users. There is also a big correlation with women who have low self esteem having partners that watch a lot of porn. 


Images of naked people have always been around, but the human species wasn't designed to deal with porn. Porn is a completely different beast. 

I don't think the men in ancient civilisations sat around and whacked off to vases depicting naked people, while the women cried saying "I'll never look like the woman on that vase".


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

FemBot said:


> You could get your husband to stop watching porn and strippers? What does going to the mall have to do with porn and strippers? Oh yes I forgot men are horny beasts that cannot stop themselves from beating off to images of new naked, young women daily...it's science afterall.


FWIW, I am not in favour of porn. 

My point, though it was poorly made, is that the best way to "compete" against porn, as in the OP's question, is to ensure that husbands and wives are bonding consistently. This means sex, leisure time together, affectionate words, affectionate touch, etc. My secondary point was that temptation is everywhere these days, so it is more important than ever to put the time and effort into connecting with your spouse. Saying, "No, naughty husband! Don't touch that!" without providing a decent alternative is never going to work.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Big difference to finding a certain movie star attractive, and using a different one every night or even several nights a week, all younger, fitter, bigger ****ed then my partner to get myself off.
> A never ending stream of them.
> 
> And in fact there have been quite a few peer reviewed studies done that show a massive correlation to men being less interested and less attractive to their spouse if they are regular porn users. There is also a big correlation with women who have low self esteem having partners that watch a lot of porn.
> ...


I think this is less about the images themselves and more about the disconnecting of being able to interact with a real human being. It is just too artificial. We program our thought patterns. Doign anything excessively is going to impact us.

Use it or lose it.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I think most men can separate the unreal fantasy from the real.

I don't do video porn because I can't stand looking at the males nekkid and it's more funny than horny, but I used to go to titty bars. They were a lot of fun and a turn on, but come to think of it, I don't remember ever gettin a boner, even with lap dances.
Can't kiss, can't touch, can't fondle. No good!

That's what people forget. Its the touching and kissing that make it real!

With real women, you can.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Choice A: fantasy, beautiful young thing, gorgeous body, all visual, go take care of your self in private.

Choice B: Real woman, YOUR woman who WANTS to do you and has the hots for you. Real touching, real kissing, real making out, real action.

No comparison. No contest.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Big difference to finding a certain movie star attractive, and using a different one every night or even several nights a week, all younger, fitter, bigger ****ed then my partner to get myself off.
> A never ending stream of them.



You seem to have a problem with porn.

I am not defending it, I just said that I personally do not compare my wife to porn stars or models. 

I really see no difference since they are all people outside the marriage and present a "more attractive image". 

I do not know why frequency or variation would have anything to do with it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I don't think the answer is to legalise the degradation and commodification of women. In fact in countries where it's legal, people still practice illegally. Something that has had some success is legalising it for the women (and giving them real support, to help the move on if they wish), but arresting and punishing the Johns. *Sending the message that when women are desperate we won't punish them for things that are usually beyond their control, but we will punish men or women who choose to exploit and commodify others. *
> 
> Again if we support and educate those that have the least, and offer real empathy and opportunity, to others, we end up with happier healthier, well educated citizens, who pay more taxes any way.


I love this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Middle of Everything said:


> Bet he or she isnt giving a sh!t about whether the body is "perfect" or not.


:iagree:


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

jld said:


> I love this.


Maybe we should legalize burglary for the downtrodden also? Sending the message that we won't punish you for things that are beyond your control, and if you found a way to not end up a thief, you're just SOL.

That said I see no reason for prostitution to be illegal in the first place. They're big boys and girls. It's not the government's place to play mommy to them.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> And in fact there have been quite a few peer reviewed studies done that show a massive correlation to men being less interested and less attractive to their spouse if they are regular porn users. There is also a big correlation with women who have low self esteem having partners that watch a lot of porn.


Women get lowered self esteem from just about anything, including seeing other women in their own womens' magazines, looking at their friend's Facebook updates, etc. Perhaps women need to be a little more discriminating about what they choose to look at and talk about, instead of blaming men.



*LittleDeer* said:


> I don't think the men in ancient civilisations sat around and whacked off to vases depicting naked people, while the women cried saying "I'll never look like the woman on that vase".


Actually, several ancient civilizations had pagan temple prostitutes and similar traditions. Some of them were compulsory and the women had to "serve" in the temple as prostitutes for a year or two as soon as they reached a certain age. 

It's hardly like unrestrained sexuality/immorality was unheard of before modern pornography.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I have an acquaintance who was a stripper. She is now a married mom of 3 young kids. 

She brings up her stripping past at every opportunity available. Quite often she changes her FB profile pic to one of her stripper photos. 

She seems very narcissistic, always wanting to be the center of attention, always flaunting around, etc. 

She's no longer a stripper but is now in sales and is very successful indeed because she knows how to really turn it on and flatter a man. 

I went to her wedding reception and she did a little strip tease during it. For her husband. With a pole they rolled out. 

I know her mom too, she's my yoga instructor. 

Anyway. That's my real life example of a stripper and I can't feel sorry for her. Moreso I find myself saying - hey, that's a talent in itself. Not for me, but she wanted the cash and the attention and she got it. 

My other point is - the porn industry has really undergone some changes with the advent of the internet. I honestly don't know how money is being made in the porn industry because who is paying for porn these days? 

That reminds me, on a message board like this there was a poster who made an amateur porn piece with her husband and posted it online (because they found the attention arousing I guess) and she asked everyone to watch it and vote for it so they could be in first place. 

The sex industry is so vast - it is impossible to stereotype what is going on. Yes, some of it is the worst humanity has to offer. And then you also have people who are aspiring, who are posting their sex footage online because they find it arousing to do so, people like the woman I know who was a very successful stripper and has turned those skills elsewhere and is still very successful. You have all kinds.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

MSP said:


> Women get lowered self esteem from just about anything, including seeing other women in their own womens' magazines, looking at their friend's Facebook updates, etc. Perhaps women need to be a little more discriminating about what they choose to look at and talk about, instead of blaming men.
> .



Love this!!!! By the way I'm a woman


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

catfan said:


> Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that *perfect*... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...


Well this is subjective. I have seen very attractive strippers and some that should have been out of the business decades earlier. Since these women make the choice to be strippers or in porn they aren't GF and Wife material to me anyway. Fun to look at yes but average woman any day for me


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I've seen her, I can vouch for it. She's hot.


Yep! Pink is hot and her hotness is legend!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

you mean stripper and porn stars arn't real?

are they as real as fabio,and other romance novel charachters? which by the way is considered porn if it has sex scence in it. all erotica is considered porn!


as far as seeing average women compaired to porn starts. If theres a spark /connection to please eachother. all is good. But if shes a pillow queen and has an attitude or shows no desire back then that becomes a problem.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I don't think the men in ancient civilisations sat around and whacked off to vases depicting naked people, while the women cried saying "I'll never look like the woman on that vase".


Another couple of thoughts:

a) Female body types were more similar in ancient times than they are today. I don't think that any time in history have we had such an enormous weight range for females (and males, of course). Take any crowd of 100 US women and you could find weights that go from a bit more than 100lbs up to over 300lbs. I think the bell curve for women would have been far, far more narrow than it is now. The differences would have been more about symmetry, breast size, and things like that, rather than such a big weight range. I have not actually researched this, but just from casual acquaintance with photos of sequestered tribes from the past 100 or so years, this seems to bear out. 

b) Women took their sexual duties far more seriously than they do today. Reproduction was a huge deal in ancient times. The size of your household reflected your power in the community as well as your ability to withstand famines and wars and continue your bloodline. Women who were sexual refusers would have been exceptionally rare. They would have forfeited a lot of privilege by being that way, if not been completely outcast. Even today, if you visit countries that still have multiple marriages, once a wife finds she is getting past the age of childbearing, she will go out and find a new wife for her husband, so he can continue to have children. When there is more than one wife already, they will get together to bring a new wife home for their husbands. 

I have read a report that said that in the sort of communities I describe above, masturbation is basically unheard of. And the reason for that is simply because the men are having sex whenever they want it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

QFT

Comparing 3,000+ marital encounters to
Thousands of ummm - autoerotic experiences 

On a 1-10 scale where 10 is best. 

Autoerotic experiences:
98% range from a 3-4
2% are below a 3 
None are above a 4

Marital:
95% range from an 8-10
4% range from 6-8
1% are below 6 

Autoerotic experience is for release of tension. 
Sex with M2 is to feel connected. 

The one is simply filler for when frequency with M2 falls below a certain level. 




norajane said:


> Porn is fast food. No matter how tasty it looks on tv and how quick to satisfy a hunger when you're starving, it's not nearly as tasty as that real beef burger you grill at home, with your own fresh onions, lettuce and tomato. Bacon and cheese optional.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Can a man only be attracted to one woman?
Can a man only be attracted to the one "top" woman he has ever seen in his life?
I guess if your husband only ever eats one kind of food, I would be nervous.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

FemBot said:


> Yes I have. I cannot remember the exact numbers but I believe the studies were done with 350 college aged people. One group exposed to light amounts of porn and one group exposed to heavy amounts and one group none at all. .... Somehow everyone chooses to ignore the science in this area...i guess it helps to ignore it so you can blow your load.


Here is the abstract from your first article: weaver, masland, zillmann: which claims the opposite of what you say, and backs up what AP said instead:

".... Changes in mate's aesthetic appeal _did not correspond_ with changes in satisfaction with mates however."

http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pms.1984.58.3.929?journalCode=pms

In your first study, you'll also note that the variable selected was not light vs. heavy vs. no porn (control), but was in fact: Beautiful vs. unattractive women vs. natures scenes (control). 

_Quite a difference_!

After exposure to unattractive females, the men's estimation of their partner's looks went _up_, not down, but this is all common sense, and irrelevant because, again:

".... Changes in mate's aesthetic appeal did not correspond with changes in satisfaction with mates however."

Your second study, which you will note in passing, contains the same researcher (Zillman) was not a study carried out on men as you claim here:

[QUOTE:]...porn use (even casual) can have a negative impact on mens perception of their partners.[/QUOTE]

nor was casual vs heavy porn use the issue, as the...

"Exposure was in hourly sessions in six consecutive weeks".

It was in fact carried out on male _and _female students, and quote: 

"These effects were uniform across gender and populations."

What effects?

Firstly there is _no violence factor involved_ in the results of these two studies, nor acceptance of violence, so your subsequent comment introducing whether violent behaviour increases due to porn is really another issue, an obfuscation. 

The effects were:

"...After consumption of pornography, subjects reported less satisfaction with their intimate partners—specifically, with these partners' affection, physical appearance, sexual curiosity, and sexual performance proper. In addition, subjects assigned increased importance to sex without emotional involvement."

Pornography's Impact on Sexual Satisfaction - Zillmann - 2006 - Journal of Applied Social Psychology - Wiley Online Library

But in what way does this make porn _different _to seeing car adverts repeated on television, where a man drives an open mountainous road with sea-views in an Audi, with a loving, non-quarreling pair of children in the back, and an admiring wife in the passenger seat? 

All substitution of the real for the intangible, whether it's My-Perfect-Father-in-the-Sky religion, or facebook 'friends', or porn, has the effect of making people miserable about a perceived deficit in their real lives. 

_This _is the grease which keeps the machinery of Capitalism going, aka the marketplace-as-religion, the American dream (dream!), 

Pornography and sex-slavery and repetitive misery-inducing consumption-oriented advertising and fake personality politics 'democracy' etc. must exist so long as Capitalism is our economic system. 

Can't pick and choose bits of it. A true feminist, if that means "against sexual slavery" "against pornography" "against objectification" must be anti-capitalist.

------------------

Part 2: My stake in this:

I'm against porn, so I'm with you on that, but studies should not be made to serve a political purpose different to the conclusion that these authors reach.

----------------

Part 3: Individual Psychology as a non-science:

Zillman, the main researcher in both studies gets a passing mention in _another _study, by William A. Fisher:

"Across the recent past, there have been confident proclamations by social scientists (Donnerstein, Linz, & Penrod, 1987; Malamuth & Donnerstein, 1984; *Zillmann & Bryant, 1986*, 1988), by the U.S. Attorney General (U.S., 1986), and by the U.S. Surgeon General (Koop, 1987; Mulvey & Haugaard, 1986), concerning the prevalence and negative effects of pornography in our society. *The impression is often conveyed that the social sciences case against pornography is closed*, *but *it is our purpose to sound a strong and much needed cautionary note: *the findings for the prevalence and effects of pornography are highly inconsistent, are often based on overly simplistic theory and on methodologically flawed research, and only permit the conclusion that there remain far more questions than firm answers in this area*....."

Pornography, erotica, and behavior: More questions than answers

I lend no credence to the study I've just posted. It may contradict your two, but I see no reason to think that makes me right. 

IMO

_Individual _psychology works with inherently, permanently flawed methodology _per se_, not only "in these particular cases" identified by Fisher, above.

It relies more than other human sciences, such as _social _psychology or economics on self-assessment (subjective ratings) or the psychologist's interpretation of the results.

These are routinely skewed sub-consciously or purposefully by whatever result he had hoped for or expected, or was paid to produce. 

No surprise that Zillman criticises and is criticised in turn - nothing is ever conclusive in this branch of 'science'. 

I hope I've explained why.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Well done sandfly!


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Hicks said:


> Can a man only be attracted to one woman?
> Can a man only be attracted to the one "top" woman he has ever seen in his life?
> I guess if your husband only ever eats one kind of food, I would be nervous.


I don't know... but I am only going to pursue one woman.

What is so special about being strong and sexual if I can't control it - if I can't focus it?

Is a man who drools and swivels his head at every passing woman and "eats" every food out there when ever he can more of a man, or just another animal out of control, and recklessly feeding his own interests?

My wife is the only one I want to be with, she is the only one who is available to me for expressing my sexual desires. I am not going hungry and by focusing my desires on her I have become a happier man, a more satisfied man, a more focused man.

Is there a whole smorgasbord of woman out there that I am missing out on?

I will tell you the truth - I could give a d**n about any other woman.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Thing about this women. First of all do not get defensive or lose any confidence behind "competing" with strippers and porn stars. These two categories do it for the money and only for the money and for the most part do not care about the men. It's normally a bad move for a man to try to partner up with either of these. There are usually bad consequences.

So your focus needs to be on how a man should appreciate a good woman. I think a good woman keeps herself groomed and a good appearance but it does not have to be the pinnacle. If a man chooses to be responsible and faithful to her, she can bless him with a great partner. Something a porn star or stripper will not bless him with. They will be a wide open drain on him.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

MSP said:


> Women get lowered self esteem from just about anything, including seeing other women in their own womens' magazines, looking at their friend's Facebook updates, etc. Perhaps women need to be a little more discriminating about what they choose to look at and talk about, instead of blaming men.


Actually there is an alarming trend in women having less and less self esteem, because we are inundated with "perfect" airbrushed often underweight women, with perfect breasts and child like vaginas wherever we look, whilst I do believe women have some responsibility in this, the majority of the responsibility falls on men, because they make the majority of porn, make write and produce most television shows and movies, and own most publications. 

When I watch television for example, I often see a less then perfect (shock horror) male specimen, married on the show to a perfect looking woman at least 10-15 years his junior. 

If it's all in women's minds why is becoming more of a problem? 



> Actually, several ancient civilizations had pagan temple prostitutes and similar traditions. Some of them were compulsory and the women had to "serve" in the temple as prostitutes for a year or two as soon as they reached a certain age.
> 
> It's hardly like unrestrained sexuality/immorality was unheard of before modern pornography


.

I think you misunderstand. We can look at all facets all ancient civilisations and see the degradation of human beings, men women and children, however I thought we were supposed to have advanced, and become kinder and more empathetic. You'd be hard pressed to find people saying "hey look child slavery has always been around, so it's really ok! And you know the Roman army used to rape little boys, so it's a natural thing and we need understand some men just can't help themselves". 

Some ancient civilisations had prostitutes, and some forced women, girls and boys into sexual slavery for sexual satisfaction of men. Why does men's sexual satisfaction come before treating people in a humane ethical manner today? 

Moreover I think you will find, whilst this stuff occurred throughout history, you will find the majority of the population were poor, and could barely afford to survive, most couples main outlet for their sexuality was with each other, they may have even cheated, but they didn't spend hours very week whacking off to endless streams of unrealistic looking people.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Actually there is an alarming trend in women having less and less self esteem, because we are inundated with "perfect" airbrushed often underweight women, with perfect breasts and child like vaginas wherever we look, whilst I do believe women have some responsibility in this, the majority of the responsibility falls on men, because they make the majority of porn, make write and produce most television shows and movies, and own most publications.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

LittleDeer, once more: I am not pro-porn. So, when you argue against me as though I am promoting porn, you're obviously missing my points. Perhaps I should be clearer. 

Nah. 



*LittleDeer* said:


> the majority of the responsibility falls on men, because they make the majority of porn, make write and produce most television shows and movies, and own most publications.


Well, they're making it with the cooperation of women. Why are you not rousing your fellow females into being more accountable for their actions? 



*LittleDeer* said:


> Some ancient civilisations had prostitutes, and some forced women, girls and boys into sexual slavery for sexual satisfaction of men. Why does men's sexual satisfaction come before treating people in a humane ethical manner today?


This stuff was just as common, if not more so, in matriarchal societies. It's not a man v.s. woman thing. It's a matter of moral v.s. immoral, selfish v.s. considerate.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

spinsterdurga said:


> I disagree with this. You don't need to see someone like you on tv or porn to feel good about yourself. How you feel about yourself should come from within and not outside. What about the me in GQ or those men who have millions? The difference between men and women is that men don't complain or blame the other gender for their low self esteem. Nope the majority of the responsibility falls on women not men. If one is not happy with the way he/she looks, he/she should do something about it and not put blame on others.
> I feel like there are two issues in this thread poor body image from "average" woman and the exploitation of women, so why are we talking about them as if they go hand in hand?
> Ps. This is a generalization and not about you or a poster in particular


Ah you are right. Silly me. The fact that studies show, women in the 70's and 80's had far more self confidence then women today, and women's whose husbands watch more porn have less self confidence too, is all just coincidental. Silly womenz. 

The exploitation of women and poor body image of women do have a correlation. 

The problem with GQ magazine and the like, is that it's not the overwhelming majority of what men are exposed to every day. And men are rarely rejected by their women for porn. Most women don't insist they need variety and for that variety consist of barely legal men/boys with huge ****s and hugely out of proportion unattainable bodies. Men aren't faced with looking at this in nearly every publication, advert and television program. They are likely to find a range of men of all ages. 

And MSP, plenty of women do have an issue with it, but just like on this thread they are silenced or poo pood and told not to be silly, that their feelings are inadequate. That they need to love themselves whilst the word is telling them they are not good enough as they are. 

However as I stated before men are the owners and producers of over 90% so holding women equally responsible just doesn't cut it.


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## dedad (Aug 22, 2013)

I will take a real woman over a porn star any day.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> MSP, plenty of women do have an issue with it, but just like on this thread they are silenced or poo pood and told not to be silly, that their feelings are inadequate.


I don't think anyone is telling you to be silent. Is that all we have to do? Why didn't you tell us!

Be silent, woman!

*waits*


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> However as I stated before men are the owners and producers of over 90% so holding women equally responsible just doesn't cut it.


Again--and I expect this to be appreciated in silence--woman are the key component of porn. Without their voluntary involvement it would be a lot less interesting for the majority of men. 

This is the problem I alluded to in Anon Pink's feminism thread. Feminism likes to portray men as being inherently bad and women as being inherently good. All this does is remove true responsibility from women and burden men with issues they don't actually have. When feminism points the finger at men instead of allowing women to be responsible for their choices, it puts women into a place where it is impossible to grow into fully mature individuals. Because you can't grow without overcoming your own crap. And with men having burdens placed on them that aren't truly theirs, it distracts them from actually being useful in ways that men are good at. 

Anyways, I can't see this post going over well, but I thought I'd throw it out there, just for kicks. The good news is that my health is picking up again, so I'll be spending less time online.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Would somebody please define "perfect" for me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MSP said:


> Again--and I expect this to be appreciated in silence--woman are the key component of porn. Without their voluntary involvement it would be a lot less interesting for the majority of men.
> 
> This is the problem I alluded to in Anon Pink's feminism thread. Feminism likes to portray men as being inherently bad and women as being inherently good. All this does is remove true responsibility from women and burden men with issues they don't actually have. When feminism points the finger at men instead of allowing women to be responsible for their choices, it puts women into a place where it is impossible to grow into fully mature individuals. Because you can't grow without overcoming your own crap. And with men having burdens placed on them that aren't truly theirs, it distracts them from actually being useful in ways that men are good at.
> 
> Anyways, I can't see this post going over well, but I thought I'd throw it out there, just for kicks. The good news is that my health is picking up again, so I'll be spending less time online.



Actually I think you make a good point. Feminism is supposed to be about women having equal options and opportunity, not to be shielded from personal responsibilities and consequences for decisions. We're still in a transitionary phase here, but men that fight feminism in favor of "traditional" roles slow this process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> And MSP, plenty of women do have an issue with it, but just like on this thread they are silenced or poo pood and told not to be silly, that their feelings are inadequate. That they need to love themselves whilst the word is telling them they are not good enough as they are.
> 
> However as I stated before men are the owners and producers of over 90% so holding women equally responsible just doesn't cut it.


I have so much respect for you, LD, to speak out the way you have, not only here, but on the Feminism thread, too. You articulate what many of us feel, but don't necessarily have the data or logic to say. Thank you.

I think a lot of us women are scared to speak up on these issues. We already feel at least somewhat inadequate, and the people who could be supportive tell us it is all our own responsibility, instead of asking how they could help. Yes, I know it is not a requirement that they help, but some desire to understand would be appreciated.

I am just glad I am married to a man who not only respects women, but has compassion for their vulnerabilities. He has made so many supportive comments to me about my body image issues. I am too embarrassed to say them here, but believe me, they have made me think, and have only improved my concept of myself. And I think every woman could benefit from that kind of truly loving support.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Actually there is an alarming trend in women having less and less self esteem, because we are inundated with "perfect" airbrushed often underweight women, with perfect breasts and child like vaginas wherever we look, whilst I do believe women have some responsibility in this, the majority of the responsibility falls on men, because they make the majority of porn, make write and produce most television shows and movies, and own most publications.
> 
> When I watch television for example, I often see a less then perfect (shock horror) male specimen, married on the show to a perfect looking woman at least 10-15 years his junior.
> 
> ...


This reminded me of something I was taught at a young age and I have taught to my daughters and son.

"noone can make you feel inferior with out your permission"

Self esteem is an emotion that only you are in control of.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

MSP said:


> Again--and I expect this to be appreciated in silence--woman are the key component of porn. Without their voluntary involvement it would be a lot less interesting for the majority of men.
> 
> This is the problem I alluded to in Anon Pink's feminism thread. Feminism likes to portray men as being inherently bad and women as being inherently good. All this does is remove true responsibility from women and burden men with issues they don't actually have. When feminism points the finger at men instead of allowing women to be responsible for their choices, it puts women into a place where it is impossible to grow into fully mature individuals. Because you can't grow without overcoming your own crap. And with men having burdens placed on them that aren't truly theirs, it distracts them from actually being useful in ways that men are good at.
> 
> Anyways, I can't see this post going over well, but I thought I'd throw it out there, just for kicks. The good news is that my health is picking up again, so I'll be spending less time online.


Voluntary involvement? If that's what you need to tell yourself about the sex industry that helps you sleep at night. 

I'll see if I can find the links to the number of adult women in the industry who are traficked (I think it's a homeland security link), and I did post an FBI link just yesterday about this issue. Moreover



> The US Department of Justice Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section reports 12 is the average age of entry into pornography and prostitution in the U.S.


And 



> 12 is the average age of entry into porn and prostitution, but their ages are often mislabeled. [5]


Human Trafficking: Sexual Trafficking

I guess those children choose to start in the business? And I'm sure they all are free to just leave the sex leave trade at any time? 

Many of the young girls in porn are underage, and most barely legal. Many are sex traffic victims.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

catfan said:


> Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that perfect... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...


My wife wanted to watch _Gravity _last night and at the exact moment Sandra Bullock came out of the pressure suit, she asked a very similar question:

_"How can you look at her and still like me?"_

I knew the question was coming because I've heard it a thousand times. From my POV, it's a silly question. It's like asking, "How can you still think a daffodil is pretty after seeing an amaryllis?"


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Always Learning said:


> This reminded me of something I was taught at a young age and I have taught to my daughters and son.
> 
> "noone can make you feel inferior with out your permission"
> 
> Self esteem is an emotion that only you are in control of.


I am not sure that last sentence is entirely accurate, but I do agree with your quote.

We don't have to take what people say personally. Or we can learn not to, I think.

My therapist has stressed to me that how people react to us has much more to do with them than with us. 

We don't have to give power to the porn and advertising industries. But it takes incredible self-confidence to resist.

Yes, the battle is ultimately inside us, but exposing these forces and learning how to resist them is helpful, too.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Always Learning said:


> This reminded me of something I was taught at a young age and I have taught to my daughters and son.
> 
> "noone can make you feel inferior with out your permission"
> 
> Self esteem is an emotion that only you are in control of.


Tell that to the men here who are thinking of divorcing their wives because they have gained 20 pounds. 

I'm sure they will pass it onto their wives, and their wives will feel much better knowing it's all about their psychology. :smthumbup:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Tell that to the men here who are thinking of divorcing their wives because they have gained 20 pounds.
> 
> I'm sure they will pass it onto their wives, and their wives will feel much better knowing it's all about their psychology. :smthumbup:


But don't you think these women are better off without those men, LD?

Some guys are jerks. The ones who blame their wives come to my mind. Mature men say, Hey, we have a problem. I have an idea what her part of it is, but what do I need to own here?


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

jld said:


> But don't you think these women are better off without those men, LD?
> 
> Some guys are jerks. The ones who blame their wives come to my mind. Mature men say, Hey, we have a problem. I have an idea what her part of it is, but what do I need to own here?


Sure they may be better off without them, but I don't think the answer is to tell a woman she needs to have self confidence just because, if the world around her sets the bar at a ridiculous standard that even those portrayed as meeting that standard, don't truly meet it. 

Studies also show young girls and teenagers are becoming increasingly depressed and suffer from extreme low self esteem compared to those in the past. 

I think we owe it to girls and women to represent all types of women, to stop picking a part what female politicians look like for example, and to show young girls and women examples of small, medium and large body types on television. To let women and girls know though our media and our actions about what we do and don't condone in society, what we will and won't tolerate, and thus setting an example, that there are all types of beautiful women and girls, all types of wonderful women and girls and women and girls won't be defined just by their looks, but by what they can contribute, by their intelligence and so forth. 

Otherwise we are really doing one thing and saying another for example- yes it's how you perceive yourself that matters- but whoops in reality we won't promote you because you aren't attractive enough/ you are a female.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Voluntary involvement? If that's what you need to tell yourself about the sex industry that helps you sleep at night.
> 
> I'll see if I can find the links to the number of adult women in the industry who are traficked (I think it's a homeland security link), and I did post an FBI link just yesterday about this issue. Moreover
> 
> ...


I am no expert on porn but the porn I have watched did "seem" to have obviously American *actresses.*

Sex trafficking is a horrible horrible thing and I certainly wouldn't want to inadvertently support the exploitation of unwilling women.

I wonder if the porn industry could police itself and label their products as "ethical and humane human trafficking free." Other wise how would we know?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I do think we need more men to stand up and say what they like in women. Not all men are into tall, skinny women. And they need to be more vocal about it.

In college, a prof told us that *****houses in the Wild West had all kinds of women. Why? Because different men like different types of women.

My dh does not go for the anorexic look at all. He has commented that he does not understand how anyone can find that attractive.

Advertising is messed up. We are all affected by its conditioning. It takes a lot of support to mitigate its effects. Men could do a lot to help women here.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Is there really someone here who is divorcing because their wife gained 20 pounds? If so is it because they saw porn stars are because they personally are fit and believe in a fit lifestyle? 

Men are in the same boat and almost none of us measure up to the ideal even though women on average do not spend a great deal of time watching porn. 

We have also had women here complaining about overweight husbands. 

I do agree that porn sets expectations about what sex is or should be like that are not realistic. 

But the topic is: 
"Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star"

and to that end I do not think it is a serious problem for most guys.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Ah you are right. Silly me. The fact that studies show, women in the 70's and 80's had far more self confidence then women today, and women's whose husbands watch more porn have less self confidence too, is all just coincidental. Silly womenz.
> 
> The exploitation of women and poor body image of women do have a correlation.
> 
> ...


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

jld said:


> My therapist has stressed to me that how people react to us has much more to do with them than with us.
> 
> We don't have to give power to the porn and advertising industries. But it takes incredible self-confidence .


Your therapist is right. I just wish women didn't need external validation aka media, magazine to feel good. You don't need someone to tell you your amazing/great/beautiful, you have to feel that you are. And who cares what others think??


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

spinsterdurga said:


> Your therapist is right. I just wish women didn't need external validation aka media, magazine to feel good. You don't need someone to tell you your amazing/great/beautiful, you have to feel that you are. And who cares what others think??


You're right, spin. And it doesn't matter. But some of us need lots of support and confidence-building to get there.

Once we feel good, really feel good inside ourselves, the outside just doesn't has as much power over us. It's getting there, that for some of us, can be tricky.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> Is there really someone here who is divorcing because their wife gained 20 pounds? If so is it because they saw porn stars are because they personally are fit and believe in a fit lifestyle?
> 
> Men are in the same boat and almost none of us measure up to the ideal even though women on average do not spend a great deal of time watching porn.
> 
> ...


And your last line needs to be stressed, as much as possible, on TAM, I think. And the men in this thread seem to be trying to do that. I thank them.

Most women love their husbands regardless of their wealth or their weight, I think. There is something that draws two people together beyond just the superficial. Or that keeps them together.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

So much for obeying my command to be silent. :nono:



*LittleDeer* said:


> Voluntary involvement? If that's what you need to tell yourself about the sex industry that helps you sleep at night.


If only it were that easy to cure my insomnia. 



*LittleDeer* said:


> > The US Department of Justice Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section reports 12 is the average age of entry into pornography and prostitution in the U.S.
> 
> 
> And
> ...


Sex trafficking and the coercion of underage victims into the sex trade is a vile and evil thing, which I oppose in the strongest way.

However, I see that your study lumps porn and prostitution together in its stats. I very much doubt that the average age into porn is 12-years old. I can believe that this could be true for prostitution (which is appalling), but not for porn. Because if it were the case, it would mean the _majority_ of porn is kiddy porn, which is simply not accurate. I'm not an expert in porn (I don't like it; I don't watch it), but to think that all the guys here who watch porn are masturbating to the sexual abuse of 12-year olds is way off-base. 

You also mentioned models for regular magazines in the same breath as sex trafficking. I have known a lot of models. I have known a professional adult film star. I have known prostitutes. I have known quite a few people in these industries. It's not a nice industry, but the women in it, in my experience, were there due to their own choices.

Here is the irony of the feminist viewpoint. If a woman works in the sex industry, she is apparently being taken advantage of by men. But if a woman chooses to sleep around and have multiple sex partners without getting married, feminism applauds her sexual freedom. Apparently, having sex while others watch is male-driven abuse, but having lots of casual sex is empowering. 

What is more often the case is that sexually promiscuous women, whether in porn or not, were sexually abused at a young age by a friend or relative. This is supported statistically and it has also been my experience in speaking with highly promiscuous adults (men and women). Once they grow up they perpetuate the cycle. As the saying goes, hurt people hurt people. Women commit about one third of sexual abuses. The number was estimated to be much lower than that, but new evidence has come out showing that it was wildly under-reported. Most of the time the abuser is the mother, which probably has something to do with why the abuses are not reported. Boys are also far less likely to report abuse than girls. 

So, the common enemy is childhood abuse. Cracking down on that would be a key to lowering the amount of porn. But so long as feminism blames men for everything, continues to turn a blind eye to the abuses committed by women, and enthusiastically supports women moving towards single-mother households (potentially with rotating boyfriends who have a tendency to do nasty stuff to kids), then this issue will never get properly addressed.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

OP - my $0.02. I will take anything from the W vs. the fantasy of TV, movies or porn. I live in reality. A little fantasy doesn't hurt, a lot could lead to addiction, but I want the real thing and truly, only with her.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

How can you read a harlequin romance and still be in love with your husband? Watch a Brad Pitt movie? True Blood? Twilight? Read 50 Shades of Grey?

Because fiction is fiction and reality is reality, that's how.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

We program our thought patterns. This is what affirmations are about.

When we do things to "excess" whatever that threshhold may be, it impacts our thinking whether we want to believe that or not.

So yes of course reading a lot of romance novels can impact how you think about real life.

So if you fantasize about a coworker day in and day out you are programming your thoughts and it will impact your interactions with them. You just may not realize it.

I am not anti-porn. But to say that using it to a great extent as a part of your life, does not impact how you think, good or bad, is very naive.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Most female pornstars are GROSS to lil Sinn. Not just sayin that for the female brownie points in here. I love porn. But I love the amateur porn that shows normal people. Women with cellulite, facial wrinkles, scars, un done hair, no make up etc.

I like reality. I suspect most men do.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

MSP said:


> So much for obeying my command to be silent. :nono:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually 25% of underage porn us made in the USA, but of course dismiss the study because it doesn't fit with your world view. 

Of course many of those girls (and boys) stay in the industry involuntarily. 

To say that women have free choice is ridiculous, none of us live in a bubble. If you are extremely poor, then you have less choices then others. Many porn stars are underage or barely legal, many only do it once or twice, because of the treatment they receive and run away if they can. However many of those who "choose" usually come from low socio economic areas, have little education. You don't find many porn stars from affluent families. This is because we know women in the industry are looked down on, and treated terribly , they get used abused and then tossed aside. I read a book by a prominent porn star (will see if I can find the link) where she talks about how every young girl she met was abused as a child, and told not to mention it, to lie about the treatment of girls in the industry etc, that most were coerced into using drugs etc. that most women were raped and made to do things they did not want to do, that they were threatened. 

Comparing women in the industry who are forced or have have such bleak futures that they "choose " to be in porn! with women who have a normal sex drive and want to have mutual sexual partners is quite silly. 

While I agree there are some men and women onto a path of self destruction, who have a ridiculous amount of partners, the difference is the men are applauded and the women are called s(it's. 

How does feminism turn a blind eye to abuse by women? 
And where do you get women commit one third of sexual abuse stat? 


> Contrary to other types of abuse, research suggests that a far greater number of child sexual abuse offences are perpetrated by adults who are not in a caregiver role (ABS, 2005; US DHHS, 2005). Findings from the ABS Personal Safety Survey (2005) indicated that for participants who had experienced sexual abuse before the age of 15, only 13.5% identified that the abuse came from their father/stepfather, 30.2% was perpetrated by other male relative, 16.9% by family friend, 15.6% by acquaintance/neighbour and 15.3% by other known person (ABS, 2005).


*
Key message: Contrary to other types of abuse, research suggests that a far greater number of child sexual abuse offences are perpetrated by adults who are not in a caregiver role.*



> Although males clearly constitute the majority of perpetrators, a review of the evidence for female sex abusers (McCloskey & Raphael, 2005), suggests that females do abuse in a small proportion of cases. Data from the US National Incident-Based Reporting System (NIBRS) showed that males made up 90% of adult child sexual assault perpetrators, while 3.9% of perpetrators were female with a further 6% classified as "unknown gender" (McCloskey & Raphael, 2005). In a study comparing male and female perpetrated child sexual abuse using data from the 1998 Canadian Incidence Study of Reported Child Abuse and Neglect (Peter, 2009), 10.7% of child sexual abuse incidents were found to be perpetrated by females. McCloskey and Raphael (2005) argued that female perpetrators of child sexual abuse could be much higher as many cases go under-reported.


Who abuses children? - Resource sheet - Child Family Community Australia

From the Australian government, using some US stats. 

Showing that men are the majority perps, that step fathers and fathers do it, but most abuse is by others. 

But of course it's women causing kids to be abused by men, by divorcing their husbands. Lol nothing to do with creepy perverts abusing kids. Good grief. 

Could you please stop reading men's rights groups web sites where they deliberately skew the facts, and start doing some critical thinking and perhaps fact finding before you next comment? Of course this is just a suggestion :/


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

LittleDeer, you're not really listening to what I say. Perhaps you were hurt by men and that accounts for your aggressive agenda against them, which comes across in your TAM posts. If so, I wish you healing and peace.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

MSP said:


> LittleDeer, you're not really listening to what I say. Perhaps you were hurt by men and that accounts for your aggressive agenda against them, which comes across in your TAM posts. If so, I wish you healing and peace.


Hilarious. 
I take in everything you say, and responded to it. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I don't understand. 

I know it's difficult when someone provides evidence and you have none.... 

It's funny how hen a woman debates she's aggressive. (Even though I'm providing links, and have studied the subject at length). 

But when a man does, he's just debating. Weird.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Tell that to the men here who are thinking of divorcing their wives because they have gained 20 pounds.
> 
> I'm sure they will pass it onto their wives, and their wives will feel much better knowing it's all about their psychology. :smthumbup:


I would tell those wives that if they are good with the way they look, then they should tell their husbands, this is me love it or leave it. If their husband chooses to leave then they should agree to the divorce and wish the a$$hat goodbye.

If they are not good with the way they look then they should put in the effort to lose the weight for THEMSELVES. 


And yes it is all about their psychology! It is about how they perceive themselves.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

spinsterdurga said:


> *LittleDeer* said:
> 
> 
> > Actually there is an alarming trend in women having less and less self esteem, because we are inundated with "perfect" airbrushed often underweight women, with perfect breasts and child like vaginas wherever we look, whilst I do believe women have some responsibility in this, the majority of the responsibility falls on men, because they make the majority of porn, make write and produce most television shows and movies, and own most publications.
> ...


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't understand the quantifying of porn stars and strippers as better than average people? They're just people too but they have lots of makeup, plastic surgery, hairdressers, bright lights, etc. If you saw pictures of them in high school or before they entered those professions, they look just like you and me. In fact, if you saw then now without all the makeup you'd walk right past them in the grocery store and think nothing of it.

When I hear people oogle over how gorgeous certain celebrities are (not to pick on Jennifer Anniston but lets say her) I just don't get it. Yeah she's cute but so? I see girls as cute as her every day. What's the big deal?


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

BeachGuy said:


> In fact, if you saw then now without all the makeup you'd walk right past them in the grocery store and think nothing of it.


Thats just it....Its fantasy...And most people know it. More than the nakedness , I find the blatant receptiveness to sex in porn the most exciting part of it.

When I do choose to view porn I tend to much prefer photo's to videos as I dont want the womans mannerisms, voice or accent to mess with my fantasy of reality.

Interestingly I notice that I find the thought of porn distasteful if I have had sex in the last few days.

Likewise porn becomes more attractive if the wife and I are not meshing on all levels.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

catfan said:


> Just a Q: how can any man be happy about an average womans body aft being exposed to porn stars and strippers? They are hired for their looks and average women don't look that perfect... Sorry just saw strippers in a movy and got triggered...



Totally understandable.

If the wifee is taking care of her hubby's sexual needs, adventurous, dress sexy, often, then his desire for porn and strippers should be pretty much gone. If she doesn't take care of his needs, knows this, then he looks at porn and sometimes goes to see strippers, who is to blame here?

For myself, when I get "us" time 3x week or more, I have no desire to view porn. In fact, I forget about porn altogether. I don't do the strippers thing. I have a few times in my life but I felt sorry for the ladies on stage and to me, I was uncomfortable being in those places and watching them. Some of them, even seemed mentally off.......

The ladies in porn and being strippers have been genetically blessed with goddess bodies. They are not the norm or average lady. Just like models, genetically blessed for beauty and they take advantage of it.

I say, if your hubby does view porn and watch strippers, and this gets you insecure and angry (understandable), find out what porn he likes and totally surprise him, doing it with him. Don't ask him, is this or that okay, just do it. Don't mention porn at all. Dress up like these ladies do and blow him away. Don't mention strippers.

He should have no desire for porn and strippers if you are taking care of his needs, blowing his mind, because you love him, find him sexy and want sex with him often. If not, find another man.

Now do I feel insecure about male porn stars, strippers and models? No. Do I need to get penis enlargement? Would be a fun thing to do, but no. When I see male models in movies, ripped muscles, do I get uneasy, no. I encourage my wifee to look and drool, to get her out of her shell and we have more "us" time later.

I think the female body is the best thing in the world. From her beautiful eyes, lashes, smile, face, hairstyle, breasts, curves, bum, legs, calves, feet, nail polishes used, sexy shoes, swim suits, lingerie, high heels and the list goes on and on. I love women and everything about them. If some choose to be porn stars, strippers and models, that's their choice in life. They love being the center of attention, sex and getting paid extremely well. Same goes for those men in the same fields. Women in general dress sexy and love the attention they get.

Do the best with what you've got.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think most of your answer is very practical advice, Cuddle. I disagree that it is the woman's fault if he looks at porn, though.

I totally agree that we all have to do the best with what we've got.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

MSP said:


> FWIW, I am not in favour of porn.
> 
> My point, though it was poorly made, is that the best way to "compete" against porn, as in the OP's question, is to ensure that husbands and wives are bonding consistently. This means sex, leisure time together, affectionate words, affectionate touch, etc. My secondary point was that temptation is everywhere these days, so it is more important than ever to put the time and effort into connecting with your spouse. Saying, "No, naughty husband! Don't touch that!" without providing a decent alternative is never going to work.


Sometimes sexual desire, enthusiasm, willingness and eagerness and fvck me now are not enough. His loss!

EDITED to add:
I have figured out why I have issues with porn and my issue with it is this -

He never came to me first and that is my issue, my friends!


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

jld said:


> I think most of your answer is very practical advice, Cuddle. I disagree that it is the woman's fault if he looks at porn, though.
> 
> I totally agree that we all have to do the best with what we've got.



It isn't the woman's fault if he looks at porn and checks out strippers. That is his choice. But if she isn't taking care of his needs, knows this, not adventurous sex, nothing those ladies would do, then she has set the stage for this. Now if she is taking care of his needs, blowing his mind, dress sexy, adventurous sex and often (not 1x week or less.....), then he needs help or needs to find another woman with a similar high sex drive. To many sexual mismatches......LD with HD......vanilla with adventurous......

When you get married you are not your own anymore. Your body is your wife's and your wife's body is yours. You are to take care of each others needs as your own. If you aren't willing to do this, he or she married and wrong girl or guy.

Being in a serious relationship and married means no more about me, selfish, its about taking care of my other halves needs as my own. So LD spouse takes care of her HD spouses needs or they shouldn't of wasted their HD spouses time. This shouldn't even be an issue because we should find our other half hot, sexy and want to be with them all the time. Otherwise, why get in that serious relationship or married in the first place?


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

CuddleBug said:


> It isn't the woman's fault if he looks at porn and checks out strippers. That is his choice. But if she isn't taking care of his needs, knows this, not adventurous sex, nothing those ladies would do, then she has set the stage for this. Now if she is taking care of his needs, blowing his mind, dress sexy, adventurous sex and often (not 1x week or less.....), then he needs help or needs to find another woman with a similar high sex drive. To many sexual mismatches......LD with HD......vanilla with adventurous......


 Ok lets just say wife tries to spice things up, like by sending her husband dirty pics of herself? Because she is very intersted! He tells her that its inappropriate for her to do such things. Also wife trying to introduce toys in to their sex life, with the thought of spicing things up. All epic fails. What then?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

ladybird said:


> Ok lets just say wife tries to spice things up, like by sending her husband dirty pics of herself? Because she is very intersted! He tells her that its inappropriate for her to do such things. Also wife trying to introduce toys in to their sex life, with the thought of spicing things up. All epic fails. What then?



Then he isn't taking care of her needs as his own and he is in the wrong. She is HD adventurous and he is more LD vanilla. See, he isn't into sex much. Sexual mismatch. But, since he married her, loves her, and most men have much higher sex drives compared to the ladies, this shouldn't be happening. Is he secretly viewing porn, relieving himself, so he isn't in the mood much? Is he secretly seeing a co worker?

If I had a wifee that is sexy and fit, sending me dirty pics, new toys, adventurous sex and often, I would be the happiest guy on the planet. I would kill for a woman like that!!! Nothing wrong with a woman like that at all. Ideal actually. Something wrong with the guy......haven't found out yet.:scratchhead:


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Brenn Wynson



“I am Brenn Wyson former kink gay porn star. What I can say? What goes on behind closed doors is a lot a sex abuse in way of transmitting HIV, HEP and whatever STD will snake there way in the the doors of Kink.com. The stars working at kink.com, making money will never disclose their bad behavior and the porn stars they throw to the trash. The drugs the lies the penis injections, which is against the law in San Fran to give to a porn star. But the are sure willing to stick your genitals to get the job done. I know what goes on behind closed doors and its sick, unsafe and your life is one the line. Trust me Kink.com will talk **** about you If you have a mouth to speak. I know because It happened to me. Its has taken me a long time to get my real career back and make an honest living. You never want to become a porn star because all the main porn companies will lie to you. Now I have to deal with Hep C, As a boxer this has been a damper on my life. I’m still a fighter and have recreated my life. Hopefully I can redirect others into stepping on the devils tale in the palace of porn."


Danielle Williams



A female porm star that'd been in the industry for a while had excessive anal intercourse and a piece of her muscle from her anus fell out on set while she was filming. Some females damaged their reproductive systems which left them unable to have children. A male porn star broke the muscle in his penis because he was having abnormal and outragous rough sex. I found that a male porn star who was in the business for a while was a devil worshipper. Both male and female porn stars were committing suicide. A lot of the porn stars were known to go overseas and do beastiality in porn. (Sleeping with animals.) Shortly after that, a numerous amount of people starting turning up with diseases, Herpes to be exact.

Herpes! They will let you work with it! - excerpt from Danielle's book, "From Porn to the Pulpit" - page 98


Ashlyn Brooke





I honestly felt that if I had to have another strange man in my face, his hands (God knows where they've been all over me) him calling me his baby and having to exude some sort of forged passion for the world to see, I probably would have exploded. And what would have been stuck to the walls would have probably been nothing, just pieces of skin, bone, the brain of a robot, and what would have been left of what would have existed once as a huge and warm heart.


Linda Lovelace



Linda Lovelace has much to say about her pornographer: "When in response to his suggestions I let him know I would not become involved in prostitution in any way and told him I intended to leave, [Traynor] beat me up physically and the constant mental abuse began. I literally became a prisoner, I was not allowed out of his sight, not even to use the bathroom, where he watched me through a hole in... the door. He slept on top of me at night, he listened to my telephone calls with a .45 automatic eight shot pointed at me. I was beaten physically and suffered mental abuse each and every day thereafter. He undermined my ties with other people and forced me to marry him on advice from his lawyer."

"My initiation into prostitution was a gang rape by five men, arranged by Mr. Traynor. It was the turning point in my life. He threatened to shoot me with the pistol if I didn't go through with it. I had never experienced anal sex before and it ripped me apart. They treated me like an inflatable plastic doll, picking me up and moving me here and there. They spread my legs this way and that, shoving their things at me and into me, they were playing musical chairs with parts of my body. I have never been so frightened and disgraced and humiliated in my life. I felt like garbage. I engaged in sex acts for pornography against my will to avoid being killed.The lives of my family were threatened."


Corina Taylor



"When I arrived to the set I expected to do a vaginal girl boy scene. But during the scene with a male porn star, he forced himself anally into me and would not stop. I yelled at him to stop and screamed 'No' over and over but he would not stop. The pain became too much and I was in shock and my body went limp."


Roxy



"After only 30 movies I caught two sexually transmitted diseases. Herpes, a non-curable disease and HPV, which led to cervical cancer where I had to have half of my cervix removed. Porn destroyed my life."


Jenna Jameson



"Most girls get their first experience in gonzo films – in which they’re taken to a crappy studio apartment in Mission Hills and penetrated in every hole possible by some abusive ******* who thinks her name is *****. And these girls, some of whom have the potential to become major stars in the industry, go home afterward and pledge never to do it again because it was such a terrible experience.”


Anita Cannibal



"I have been a performer now for 14 years in the adult film industry in many countries, states . . . all over the place. I have worked for most of these companies, and I was around for the once-a-month HIV-positive outbreak in ’98. Yes, I was, and I got to see those performers that nobody knows about—that nobody claims that got HIV, that are not a part of the statistics—walk out the door as non-performers, not to be counted."

"Yeah, there are a lot of cover-ups going on. There is a lot of tragedy. There are a lot of horrible things."


Stephanie Swift



"I was sexually abused the first time by my step grandfather on my dad's side and the second time by my actual stepdad so my sexuality was messed up from the beginning. I created another personality that was in complete control and didn't have those things happen and didn't have to deal with the pain. The industry is not a real accomplishment. It's just a false sense of accomplishment. It covers everything up for what it is."


Belladonna



“I like to hide — hide everything, you know?... And I'm not happy... I don't like myself at all... My whole entire body feels it when I'm doing it and... I feel so — so gross.”


Andi Anderson



"After a year or so of that so-called “glamorous” life, I sadly discovered that drugs and drinking were a part of the lifestyle. I began to drink and party out of control! Cocaine, alcohol and ecstasy were my favorites. Before long, I turned into a person I did not want to be. After doing so many hardcore scenes I couldn’t do it anymore. I just remember being in horrible situations and experiencing extreme depression and being alone and sad." - Andi Anderson


Lucky Starr



"I was worried about my first anal scene for quite a few days ... then the big moment arrived. It REALLY hurt! I almost quit and said, "I can’t do this". When it was all over, I was so happy and relieved I was able to do it. But I still have to think if I want to do anal on a regular basis. It did hurt a lot! So will I continue to do anal? Let’s wait for my butt to heal, then we’ll talk."


Alexa Milano



My first movie I was treated very rough by 3 guys. They pounded on me, gagged me with their penises, and tossed me around like I was a ball! I was sore, hurting and could barely walk. My insides burned and hurt so badly. I could barely pee and to try to have a bowel movement was out of the question. I was hurting so bad from the physical abuse from these 3 male porn stars! - Alexa Milano


Jessie Jewels



"People in the porn industry are numb to real life and are like zombies walking around. The abuse that goes on in this industry is completely ridiculous. The way these young ladies are treated is totally sick and brainwashing. I left due to the trauma I experienced even though I was there only a short time." - Jessie Jewels


Jersey Jaxin



"Guys punching you in the face. You have semen from many guys all over your face, in your eyes. You get ripped. Your insides can come out of you. It's never ending." - Jersey Jaxin


Tamra Toryn



"As for myself, I ended up paying the price from working in the porn industry. In 2006, not even 9 months in, I caught a moderate form of dysplasia of the cervix(which is a form of HPV, a sexually transmitted disease) and later that day, I also found out I was pregnant. I had only 1 choice which was to abort the baby during my first month. It was extremely painful emotionally and physically. When it was all over, I cried my eyes out."- Tamra Toryn


Elizabeth Rollings



"I didn’t want to feel the pain of penetration from an over average sized man, being told to freeze in a position until the camera man was happy with his shots was very painful. I had peoples body fluids forced on my face or anywhere else the producer pleased and I had to accept it or else no pay. Sometimes you would get to a gig and the producer would change what the scene was supposed to be to something more intense and again if you didn’t like it, too bad, you did it or no pay." - Elizabeth Rollings


Becca Brat



I hung out with a lot of people in the Adult industry, everybody from contract girls to gonzo actresses. Everybody has the same problems. Everybody is on drugs. It's an empty lifestyle trying to fill up a void."

"I became horribly addicted to heroin and crack. I overdosed at least 3 times, had tricks pull knives on me, have been beaten half to death- the only reason I am still here is God. - Becca Brat


Lara Roxx



“We should think about these issues right now, to change stuff around to make this a safer f**kin’ business. It isn’t a safe business, and I thought it was, and I would have not did that scene with no condom with Darren James if it would have crossed my mind that those tests weren’t good and that I couldn’t trust him or the people he’s been with. I thought porn people were the cleanest people in the world, is what I thought.” - Lara Roxx, diagnosed with HIV in April, 2004 along with four other porn stars.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

The only time in my life I was viewing porn daily, multiple times and reliving myself, teens and early 20's. I was a walking hormone!!! Then I got older, got self control and porn is only say 1x month now and if I get "us" time 3x week or more, no porn viewing at all. I'm always open to any new toys, oils, techniques, sex 1x - 4x day, pics, talk dirty, movies, anything that we all can think of, I'm into all that and never make excuses, tomorrow, I'm tired, its late, etc. My wifee did this for 14 years of marriage but over the last 5+ months, has totally started doing a 180 on herself.:smthumbup:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Sobering, 12345person. Thank you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> Being in a serious relationship and married means no more about me, selfish, its about taking care of my other halves needs as my own. So LD spouse takes care of her HD spouses needs or they shouldn't of wasted their HD spouses time. This shouldn't even be an issue because we should find our other half hot, sexy and want to be with them all the time. Otherwise, why get in that serious relationship or married in the first place?


I don't disagree with what you are saying, though your tone sounds kind of bitter and aggressive. Did I read that wrong?

It sounds like things are better with your wife. Glad to hear it.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

jld said:


> I don't disagree with what you are saying, though your tone sounds kind of bitter and aggressive. Did I read that wrong?
> 
> It sounds like things are better with your wife. Glad to hear it.



Not derailing this thread but things are great for Mrs.CuddleBug and I.

I just get upset when I see a LD spouse tormenting their HD spouse and then they get angry with the HD spouse when they view porn, relieve themself and check out strippers. LD spouses must take care of their other halves needs, must, otherwise be single and find a LD spouse. But that is selfish and not taking care of their other halves needs as their own.....

If the LD spouses needs are more emotional closeness, romance, cuddling, doing things together then their HD spouse should be doing all of this with them out of love. The LD spouse then out of love takes care of their HD spouses needs as well.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

If I see a hot woman on TV, movies, walking down the street, driving in town, bikini's during the summer, everywhere, I definitely look and in my mind, I would love to have crazy sex with her.

I never tell my wifee that ever........common sense.

And I'm sure Mrs.CuddleBug does the same thing......and never tells me either.

It's healthy and being respectful to each other.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> Not derailing this thread but things are great for Mrs.CuddleBug and I.
> 
> I just get upset when I see a LD spouse tormenting their HD spouse and then they get angry with the HD spouse when they view porn, relieve themself and check out strippers. LD spouses must take care of their other halves needs, must, otherwise be single and find a LD spouse. But that is selfish and not taking care of their other halves needs as their own.....
> 
> If the LD spouses needs are more emotional closeness, romance, cuddling, doing things together then their HD spouse should be doing all of this with them out of love. The LD spouse then out of love takes care of their HD spouses needs as well.


Sounds very reasonable, Cuddle.

I've always felt men needed sex often. Dh does not expect 10/10 sex every time, though, thank goodness.

Again, glad things are going so well for you.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

jld said:


> Sounds very reasonable, Cuddle.
> 
> I've always felt men needed sex often. Dh does not expect 10/10 sex every time, though, thank goodness.
> 
> Again, glad things are going so well for you.




Us men are wired more for sex. Testosterone. Studies show sex 3x every week lowers the chances of heart issues by up to 50% in men. Dr. Oz Show.

The ladies know this, exercise, sexy, fit, curvy outfits and high heels, hairstyles, makeup, showing their bum and breasts, feet, how they walk, etc. Drives us men wild. Ladies love the attention......otherwise why do this? You won't live longer......not healthier.......doesn't make you smarter........doesn't make you stronger........why not wear a horse blanket and no makeup or hairstyle?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lol, Cuddle. This will be my last t/j post, and my apologies to the OP.

The point is to please the partner, right? My dh doesn't like makeup. He would feel uncomfortable, and so would I, if I wore revealing clothing. Neither of us is into high heels for me, either.

So while I totally agree with pleasing one another, I just want to say we all have different ways of getting there.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star*



CuddleBug said:


> Us men are wired more for sex. Testosterone. Studies show sex 3x every week lowers the chances of heart issues by up to 50% in men. Dr. Oz Show.
> 
> The ladies know this, exercise, sexy, fit, curvy outfits and high heels, hairstyles, makeup, showing their bum and breasts, feet, how they walk, etc. Drives us men wild. Ladies love the attention......otherwise why do this? You won't live longer......not healthier.......doesn't make you smarter........doesn't make you stronger........why not wear a horse blanket and no makeup or hairstyle?


I don't exercise, have high heels, don't show my bum and breasts, walk normal (how else to walk?). Wear the clothes I like, have eyeliner and long blond hair. 
I just hate sports, bullied also during sports classes is to blame for that. Can't even walk on high heels and btw if I would wear them I'm longer than most men lol.

I could exercise, get plastic surgery and a spray tan and still wouldn't have a goddess body, as someone named them in this post. 

That is just it, it's hard to feel attractive and free sexually for me, knowing he has seen this before.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star*



CuddleBug said:


> Totally understandable.
> 
> If the wifee is taking care of her hubby's sexual needs, adventurous, dress sexy, often, then his desire for porn and strippers should be pretty much gone. If she doesn't take care of his needs, knows this, then he looks at porn and sometimes goes to see strippers, who is to blame her.
> 
> ...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Catfan, it sounds like your insecurity comes more from you than your SO. Is that right?

I saw your picture, and you are a very beautiful lady. There is no reason to be insecure.

And this idea of the perfect body -- it is going to depend on the person's tastes, you know? 

Do you feel loved by your SO? If so, then how about asking him to tell you what he loves about your body.

The parts of my body I am most insecure about are the ones my dh loves best. I bet your SO is the same.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star*



jld said:


> Catfan, it sounds like your insecurity comes more from you than your SO. Is that right?
> 
> I saw your picture, and you are a very beautiful lady. There is no reason to be insecure.
> 
> ...


Yes, I know I'm very insecure and I do feel loved by my bf. But like many American men he has been to a strip clubs in his past. They are not common at all here in The Netherlands, in Amsterdam yes, the rest not at all. So I never had a relationship with someone that has really saw those 'goddesses' for real, and had a lap dance.

Of course most if not all men have seen porn. But that he has seen perfection for real, from so close... I'm aware I'm not the ugliest woman in the world, but my body is very flawed compared to what he has seen.

I think it's a cultural difference too. Like the cheerleaders elsewhere on this forum, Hooters, strip clubs, etc. The Netherlands is free thinking, but how women are displayed in the USA disturbs me. Probably because he is from there and I feel compared to those standards.

Really in Amsterdam there is a small neighbourhood with kinky stuff, the rest of the country is rather innocent. When I was in America, there were so many strip clubs. It seems a common thing there.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But he has not told you this, right? This is just from your own head, this comparing?

Catfan, I am American, and my dh is French. Right there, I could feel a lot of insecurity. I am not French at all. No exquisite style, sense of taste or fashion, knowledge of perfume, or superb cooking skills. I am not bone thin and beautiful. I don't fit in France at all. 

But you know what? Dh doesn't care about those things. He always says that I am genuine, and he loves that about me. I guess he did not find that in the French girls he knew. 

Can you love yourself, catfan? Really just love yourself, as if you were your own child? 

Imagine yourself as a small girl, being your mom at the same time. Imagine how much you would love that girl, how perfect you would think she is.

And now imagine her thinking the thoughts you are thinking. 

What would you say to her, to comfort her and build up her esteem?

Love yourself, catfan. You are a beautiful lady, but even if you were not, you would still deserve love. Everyone does.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

catfan said:


> I don't exercise, have high heels, don't show my bum and breasts, walk normal (how else to walk?). Wear the clothes I like, have eyeliner and long blond hair.
> I just hate sports, bullied also during sports classes is to blame for that. Can't even walk on high heels and btw if I would wear them I'm longer than most men lol.
> 
> I could exercise, get plastic surgery and a spray tan and still wouldn't have a goddess body, as someone named them in this post.
> ...



From your main avatar pic, you are gorgeous.:smthumbup:

You have nothing to worry about. He should be doing the worrying.

I have pranced around in my underwear for Mrs.CuddleBug. heh heh.

I have no issues being sexy in the shower, only covering myself half way.....

If you love him and find him hot, you will want to do things that turn him on and have sex with him often and blow him away. If not, why are you with him?

Remember, we are to take care of each other needs as our own. We are not single and in it for what we only want anymore.

And I live in Canada. The city I live in has a few strips clubs but its a wealthy city, a lot of retirees, nhl, movie and rock stars have bought houses here and there are foreign exchange students. The city is clean and even those few strips clubs that were somewhat dirty have closed down. Our city is new, fresh, family friendly, wealthy and population size of about 120,000.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

catfan said:


> Yes, I know I'm very insecure and I do feel loved by my bf. But like many American men he has been to a strip clubs in his past. They are not common at all here in The Netherlands, in Amsterdam yes, the rest not at all. So I never had a relationship with someone that has really saw those 'goddesses' for real, and had a lap dance.
> 
> Of course most if not all men have seen porn. But that he has seen perfection for real, from so close... I'm aware I'm not the ugliest woman in the world, but my body is very flawed compared to what he has seen.
> 
> ...


What strip clubs did he go to? Does he tell you that those strippers had perfect bodies? Does he call them goddesses? I've been to a few and I've never NEVER seen a woman with a perfect body there. Actually, you know what? Maybe I did. I honestly can't remember what most of them looked like. For me, it's a very fleeting attraction. Yeah, they look good at the time. They even turn you on. But they don't stand out in my memory. Out of sight out of mind I guess?

Stop worrying about what he's seen before, because believe me it wasn't perfection.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star*



I Don't Know said:


> What strip clubs did he go to? Does he tell you that those strippers had perfect bodies? Does he call them goddesses? I've been to a few and I've never NEVER seen a woman with a perfect body there. Actually, you know what? Maybe I did. I honestly can't remember what most of them looked like. For me, it's a very fleeting attraction. Yeah, they look good at the time. They even turn you on. But they don't stand out in my memory. Out of sight out of mind I guess?
> 
> Stop worrying about what he's seen before, because believe me it wasn't perfection.


www.beansnappers.com

The women working there look amazing, according to the pictures. 
A man in this forum post said strippers have perfect goddess bodies. My bf doesn't say so. But I have eyes and see they look amazing.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

of course the pics are like that, it is advertising.

I have been to several strip clubs when I was younger, still like home cooking by such a wide margin you can't measure it. Men like to look, but unless they are addicted, prefer to be with the one they are with 100%.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

catfan said:


> Beansnappers - Wisconsin's wildest, totally nude club. Sexy girls dancing nightly.
> 
> The women working there look amazing, according to the pictures.
> A man in this forum post said strippers have perfect goddess bodies. My bf doesn't say so. But I have eyes and see they look amazing.


I didn't see many pictures there. The ones I did see were mostly cute, but I wouldn't say perfect. Some weren't that attractive to me. IDK. Maybe it's just me? 

Still, depending on how long since he's been there, I'd bet he couldn't describe any of the ones he's seen in any great detail.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I went to a strip club once -sure there where a lot of pretty girls there but overall it was not worth ever going again. Most guys want the whole package and not just a pretty body. 

We just got back from Amsterdam it is a very lovely city and we enjoyed the big tulip garden. The red light district was pretty tame but I felt sorry for the women in the windows. 

Most guys want that connection and would much, much rather be with a woman they love and they do not notice those imperfections.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

catfan said:


> But that he has seen perfection for real, from so close....


Perfection? You've not actually seen a stripper in person, have you?


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star*



WorkingOnMe said:


> Perfection? You've not actually seen a stripper in person, have you?


They are selected for their, to look good naked. I'm sure if I go on stage nude, people would give me money to please get dressed


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

catfan said:


> They are selected for their, to look good naked. I'm sure if I go on stage nude, people would give me money to please get dressed


Those red lights hide many,many imperfections hon. Trust me.Take away the red lights and put some daylight on them and they're just regular girls w/thin bodies and maybe some implants.

Some of them have a LOT of imperfections. Bad skin,cellulite,stringy unhealthy hair,etc. A lot of makeup and the red lights make all that go away.

ETA It really is helpful to keep in mind that those clubs have professional lighting people on their payroll. As any photographer knows,lighting is EVERY THING. Same with porn. lighting,makeup,and camera angles can make an ordinary gal a total supermodel if she's thin enough and has a decent face.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star*



ScarletBegonias said:


> Those red lights hide many,many imperfections hon. Trust me.Take away the red lights and put some daylight on them and they're just regular girls w/thin bodies and maybe some implants.
> 
> Some of them have a LOT of imperfections. Bad skin,cellulite,stringy unhealthy hair,etc. A lot of makeup and the red lights make all that go away.
> 
> ETA It really is helpful to keep in mind that those clubs have professional lighting people on their payroll. As any photographer knows,lighting is EVERY THING. Same with porn. lighting,makeup,and camera angles can make an ordinary gal a total supermodel if she's thin enough and has a decent face.


Thin bodies, no red light can hide wobly belly and big nose... I wasn'r bullied by so many for being pretty.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

catfan said:


> Thin bodies, no red light can hide wobly belly and big nose... I wasn'r bullied by so many for being pretty.


I bet the logical side of you knows that bullies bully bc they feel ugly and weak. Having someone bully you for your tummy or your nose is not a reflection on those parts.It's actually a reflection of the person doing the bullying. 

You have to make up your mind to let those things go at some point. You are so much more than your outer appearance. Based on your photo,you just happen to be lucky enough to be a pretty lady on the outside. But you won't be truly beautiful until you get your mind right and recognize all that you are. 

I got bullied for all sorts of things. My thick dark eyebrows,the fact that the peach fuzz on my upper lip was super dark,my "bubble butt", my gapped teeth. 

Fixing all that you see is wrong with you won't make you beautiful and you won't even feel beautiful. You'll still compare yourself to other women and feel you come up short. I plucked my brows,waxed my upper lip,and fixed my teeth...much to my disgust I still felt everyone else was better. 

Fix your perception of yourself and you won't need to change anything about your outer appearance.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Also,if you can't make peace with having your partner go to strip clubs maybe he isn't the right guy for you. 

You should still work on your confidence and try to see yourself in a more positive light. But if your relationship is causing you to feel more insecure it might be time to take a break so you can work on yourself.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

OP no offense maybe you should seek IC to deal with the aftermath of buying and to have more confidence


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star*



spinsterdurga said:


> OP no offense maybe you should seek IC to deal with the aftermath of buying and to have more confidence


I've been in therapy for years and years now. Still I feel no self esteem at all. Don't know what to do anymore.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Accepting real woman after seeing strip/porn star*



ScarletBegonias said:


> I bet the logical side of you knows that bullies bully bc they feel ugly and weak. Having someone bully you for your tummy or your nose is not a reflection on those parts.It's actually a reflection of the person doing the bullying.
> 
> You have to make up your mind to let those things go at some point. You are so much more than your outer appearance. Based on your photo,you just happen to be lucky enough to be a pretty lady on the outside. But you won't be truly beautiful until you get your mind right and recognize all that you are.
> 
> ...


Ok, never will be truly beautiful. Get that.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

catfan said:


> Ok, never will be truly beautiful. Get that.


You will never be happy as long as you limit your definition of beautiful in this way. 

I am curious what else you think you boyfriend lies to you about.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

catfan said:


> Ok, never will be truly beautiful. Get that.


You totally zeroed in on the one potentially negative comment and ran with it. That sort of behavior has to stop if you're ever going to get better. 

You won't ever be beautiful to yourself if you continue doing this. 

I'm really sorry none of us are getting through to you. I hate to see someone with so much potential just sinking and letting her mind be her enemy. 

Maybe it's time to try a different therapist? Or possibly a support group would help better.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

catfan said:


> I've been in therapy for years and years now. Still I feel no self esteem at all. Don't know what to do anymore.


(((((catfan)))))

That must be a terrible feeling. You just don't feel any love for yourself?

How lonely.

What do you think of SB's suggestion, to change therapists?

At least your SO seems kind and supportive. To take the time to make that album for you, he must love you. 

It can take years to get to where you love yourself, catfan. Try to nurture yourself and be patient with yourself. You need to build yourself up, and avoid people/situations that make you feel worse about yourself.

How do you think we could help?


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## professor_panda (May 1, 2014)

Never understood the whole "not real" thing when talking about strippers and the like. No... they're pretty darn real. I've dated women that looked like them. Yes, some real non-whorish women actually have fantastic stripper-like bodies. 

Your reaction, as women, should be "Yeah, they're hot. So?"

That's pretty much it. Stop pushing your insecurities onto others just because you think they look better than you. There's nothing at all attractive about that. Tell a man every day that the strippers look better than you, and he'll start to believe it. 

Everybody has pluses and minuses. If your man doesn't like you because you don't look like XYZ, then... ummm.. dump him?

I'm bald. You think I give two sh*ts that my gf typically likes celebrity guys that have hair? No. Most celebrity dudes have hair. So?

Catfan: You're hot. Get help. Different help.


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