# Question for BS were you the one to end the relationship or was it the WS???



## oldmittens (Dec 2, 2011)

I was recently thinking about this, how many BSs out there were actually the ones who ended there relationship. Most affairs seem to follow the same path, The WS becomes infatuated with the affair partner and either leave the BS for their affair partner or eventually ends the affair (The latter being the most common in my opinion) But I don't read "many" stories where Upon D-Day or after an attempt at recovery the BS ends the relationship and I was wondering why that is. 

So I thought I would ask do you all do you really think most affairs can be recovered from??

also when a recovery/marriage fails because of infidelity do you think it's because the BS wants it to or because the WS does??


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

oldmittens said:


> I was recently thinking about this, how many BSs out there were actually the ones who ended there relationship. Most affairs seem to follow the same path, The WS becomes infatuated with the affair partner and either leave the BS for their affair partner or eventually ends the affair (The latter being the most common in my opinion) But I don't read "many" stories where Upon D-Day or after an attempt at recovery the BS ends the relationship and I was wondering why that is.
> 
> So I thought I would ask do you all do you really think most affairs can be recovered from??
> 
> also when a recovery/marriage fails because of infidelity do you think it's because the BS wants it to or because the WS does??


I am the BS. I filed for divorce after a six month false recovery, in which my cheater spouse was not remorseful and expected me to be over his emotional, physical and financial infidelity. 

I think a lot more marriages eventually fail. It may take five years or ten years but eventually the BS walks away. You don't hear about this on the internet because most sites are making money trying to instill hope that they can save your marriage.

I think the failure rate is far higher than reported. 

MC can not save a marriage. It may delay a divorce and the counselors my never learn of that eventual divorce so the stat becomes that they saved the marriage. 

I think what happens is that it takes the deception of an affair awhile to sink into the brain of the faithful. 

Once it does they start to see how they were gaslighted by the cheater and the MC's into taking way too much responsibility for problems in the marriage. 

IMO, in reality cheaters are selfish self absorbed people. Such people never change. It is part of their core personality. It may have been instilled in childhood by over indulgent parents, or it may be something inborn.

Eventually the faithful spouse realizes how selfish their cheater spouse is and when they do, rather than cheat, they seek a divorce. 

I do think many faithful spouses stay longer than they should, but than eventually wake up.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

oldmittens said:


> So I thought I would ask do you all do you really think most affairs can be recovered from??
> 
> also when a recovery/marriage fails because of infidelity do you think it's because the BS wants it to or because the WS does??


actually I don't think most affairs can be recovered from, it takes true remorse from the WS and you don't see that as often as you see either rug-sweeping, deeper underground affairs or D. Chap throws around a 30% R rate and it would be silly to assume all R's are real, I would probably think about half of them truly are. So it would put the "real" recovery rate at around 15%.

as to the 2nd question- Both have to want R for it to work so that means the WS has to work for years at helping the BS heal and the BS has to value the relationship and WS enough to go through the pain and forgiveness.

So I can't honestly tell you who bails more, it's a tough road for both parties. I would think a WS doesn't "bail" by starting D process as often, but their actions will often cause the BS to bail (either by cake eating, rugsweeping, non-transparency, trickle truth, etc) So while you probably don't see the WS filing as often as the BS, their actions are the driving force regardless.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> I would think a WS doesn't "bail" by starting D process as often, but their actions will often cause the BS to bail (either by cake eating, rugsweeping, non-transparency, trickle truth, etc) So while you probably don't see the WS filing as often as the BS, their actions are the driving force regardless.


Exactly. IMO, cheaters are cowards. They want to end the marriage but since they are into the blame game. They want to force the faithful spouse to divorce them, hence they provoke them. 

Most cheaters desperately want to see themselves as good people. They are not. 

But to maintain their good person image, they continually emotionally abuse the spouse in ways that are not obvious to outsiders and when this provokes the faithful spouse to Divorce, the cheater can claim he tried to reconcile, when, in reality he did not. Also, they can retain their fantasy of being a good person. 

Emotional abuse that is not obvious to an outsider is called ambient abuse and it can be very destructive to the faithful spouse.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I ended the marriage.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I am the BS. I filed for divorce after a six month false recovery, in which my cheater spouse was not remorseful and expected me to be over his emotional, physical and financial infidelity.
> 
> I think a lot more marriages eventually fail. It may take five years or ten years but eventually the BS walks away. You don't hear about this on the internet because most sites are making money trying to instill hope that they can save your marriage.
> 
> ...


5 years R here, filing for divorce this week. Everything you said could not have been any better. Selfish. That's all they are. They don't care, its all about them. Serial cheaters are the worst.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

I ended the relationship. He wanted to remain married (aka "cake and eat it too syndrome") He would stop seeing other women if I would meet his needs  He was incapable of understanding my hurts and my feelings and found excuses for his betrayal. So I left him.

Instead of fighting to win me back, he is still pursuing other relationships, while trying to fight me legally by saying I abandoned the marital home. In other words, I made the right choice to leave and he is confirming this (whether he realizes it or not).


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> 5 years R here, filing for divorce this week. Everything you said could not have been any better. Selfish. That's all they are. They don't care, its all about them. Serial cheaters are the worst.


IMO, a lot of people try too long to reconcile because they want to believe it is a possibility and that all the pablum about a marriage being better after learning of an infidelity. 

That's Bull hockey, IMO, a marriage is never better for the BS after cheating. It's only better for the cheater. He/she got the thrill of a new dating and/or sexual relationship, plus they get to keep their loyal faithful spouse. A spouse who all too willingly accepts blame and tries hard to make things better for the cheater.

What does the loyal spouse get. Nothing but heart ache, a bad case of post infidelity PTSD, a spouse that they can never trust again, a marriage that is a sham and never the same as it was prior. 

A marriage is supposed to be a safe harbor from the stresses of the world, a place where you can feel safe and loved. No one said a marriage is going to be easy. It's work, but both went in knowing that and still agreeing to forsake all others.

After infidelity the marriage is anything but that for the loyal spouse. 

Your spouse already forsook you for another, and if they were bad mouthing you to the OP, then they were all too willingly stabbed you in the back. 

Nothing will ever change that.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Sara8, your posts are giving me alot of strength today, thank you. I really need it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I ended the marriage after I think the 8th or 9th time of crying, begging, and pleading for her not to leave me. Humiliated myself in front of my family numerous times with my pathetic behavior. Finally manned up, found my balls, and let her go. She walked out the door and never looked back. I've always wondered over the years if she was suprised that I never chased after her that last time. This was definitely a walk away wife situation and no amount of MC was going to fix that one.

Now in this marriage, I don't know. Just taking it one day at a time. I'll be alright if R fails or if it's successful.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Well, that's very comforting. I'm glad I don't feel that way about my marriage... and I'm glad my husband doesn't either. I know, this was specifically about which partner chose to end the relationship, if it ended. But reading the replies... I understand why there is hurt, anger, and even resentment... but saying, or implying, that a WS will never change is untrue. In saying that, the implication is that my marriage is going to fail (both of us had EAs), Entropy's will fail, Sigma's will, etc. I don't believe it. I believe that if both are willing to work at the marriage, it can be rebuilt. Yes, the majority of the work is on the WS, but the BS has to be willing to forgive... to truly forgive. I disagree with the idea that any who have been plagued by unfaithfulness are doomed to fail. I think it will fail if they settle back into old patterns again, but not if they truly work on fixing it. But that's JMO.

Sorry if this seems to be attacking. I DO understand that sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I just disagree with the thought that it ALL ends no matter what. If that wasn't the intent, then I apologize.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Just taking it one day at a time. I'll be alright if R fails or if it's successful.


Same here. We're going through R, but I'm at peace with idea of living alone. And she knows it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Well, that's very comforting. I'm glad I don't feel that way about my marriage... and I'm glad my husband doesn't either. I know, this was specifically about which partner chose to end the relationship, if it ended. But reading the replies... I understand why there is hurt, anger, and even resentment... but saying, or implying, that a WS will never change is untrue. In saying that, the implication is that my marriage is going to fail (both of us had EAs), Entropy's will fail, Sigma's will, etc. I don't believe it. I believe that if both are willing to work at the marriage, it can be rebuilt. Yes, the majority of the work is on the WS, but the BS has to be willing to forgive... to truly forgive. I disagree with the idea that any who have been plagued by unfaithfulness are doomed to fail. I think it will fail if they settle back into old patterns again, but not if they truly work on fixing it. But that's JMO.
> 
> Sorry if this seems to be attacking. I DO understand that sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I just disagree with the thought that it ALL ends no matter what. If that wasn't the intent, then I apologize.



What we are saying is that the number of marriages that survive infidelity is much lower than reported by MCs or marriage saver sites. 

There is no statistical follow though, and has been mentioned many those who decide to divorce five years later, never come back to sites like this or to a MC. 

Also, what we are saying is that the marriage will NEVER be better for the loyal spouse. It may survive, but it will not be better for the loyal spouse as some marriage saver sites or counselors (all of whom make money off of perpetuating that belief) are saying. 

You trusted someone, and now you can't. You thought you were special and now you know you're not. 

How in heck does that make things better for the loyal spouse 

In the case where both spouses cheated. Maybe it can work better. I don't know, at least two disloyal spouse know how it feels and have a level playing field.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Ok - I've got to chime in here on the cheater bashing. Yes cheating sucks and we deserve to have our ass kicked for being such selfish, self absorbed people. 

BUT....

My wife will tell you - two years into reconciliation - that our marriage is better than it was before - that's even her screen name - better than before. She'll even say "it was worth it." Me - I can't say that. I've got too many scars, but she will. 

What she got was a husband who realized that he treated his wife like a child and changed. A husband who realized that he had become an arrogant insufferable ass, got his teeth handed to him and learned the lesson. My wife has told me if the old me reappeared she would divorce me now that she has met the post A me. I have learned the lessons - I got the message. Intimacy in our marriage had left and it was my fault. The way I treated my wife wouldn't allow it - I recognize that and I changed it. I now treat her as a partner, as an equal as someone who can give to me and receive from me the intimacy a good marriage needs. 

There are some cheaters who learn from the fvck up, resolve to change and do it. Not many granted, but there are some. I'm one and I'm not the only one on this board.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Sara8, your posts are giving me alot of strength today, thank you. I really need it.


I am sorry to hear that things did not work out for you. 

But I a glad to hear you are feeling {{{{{stronger}}}}}}}


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Also, what we are saying is that the marriage will NEVER be better for the loyal spouse. It may survive, but it will not be better for the loyal spouse as some marriage saver sites or counselors (all of whom make money off of perpetuating that belief) are saying.


disagree

my marriage is better in many aspects (and of course the trust is no longer blind, but I think that's a good thing)

but I dont attribute the infidelity to making it better, although it was unfortunately the force that drove us to improve it


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> actually I don't think most affairs can be recovered from, it takes true remorse from the WS and you don't see that as often as you see either rug-sweeping, deeper underground affairs or D. Chap throws around a 30% R rate and it would be silly to assume all R's are real, I would probably think about half of them truly are. So it would put the "real" recovery rate at around 15%.
> 
> as to the 2nd question- Both have to want R for it to work so that means the WS has to work for years at helping the BS heal and the BS has to value the relationship and WS enough to go through the pain and forgiveness.
> 
> So I can't honestly tell you who bails more, it's a tough road for both parties. I would think a WS doesn't "bail" by starting D process as often, but their actions will often cause the BS to bail (either by cake eating, rugsweeping, non-transparency, trickle truth, etc) So while you probably don't see the WS filing as often as the BS, their actions are the driving force regardless.


The problem is, you can never know if the marriage was successful until life is over, so if most people are having their "first" affairs in their 30's, 40's, or 50's, well there is LOTS of time for more assuming a normal lifespan.

I fully expect to remain married for the next 10 years until our children are out of the house. What then? My husband and I will be truly alone together and looking toward retirement. Will he find his old AP and hunt her down because her kid is grown as well? He says no. I believe he means this. But this is only something he can prove by his future actions. I have to live with that.

Each person has to decide for themselves is it worth it. I wouldn't say it was worth it if our marriage wasn't enjoyable, fun, fulfilling, and happy right now.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

oldmittens said:


> But I don't read "many" stories where Upon D-Day or after an attempt at recovery the BS ends the relationship and I was wondering why that is.


Most of the BW are at least somewhat open to R, especially on the first offense, and many times even with repeaters. Of the guys (many) I know who've had this happen, most of them have either ended it immediately at Dday or been the ones to end it after attempting R. But not all. I have had quite a few friends/acquaintances who were left high and dry. One WW left her family and is still with AP 30 years later. But that was an exceptional, sensational situation that sounds like porn fiction.



oldmittens said:


> So I thought I would ask do you all do you really think most affairs can be recovered from??


Depends on the people involved. Everyone has their own point that's a final dealbreaker.



oldmittens said:


> also when a recovery/marriage fails because of infidelity do you think it's because the BS wants it to or because the WS does??


WH usually want the marriage, BH is much more prone to pull the plug, especially if kids are not part of the equation or out of the house.

The reason for the different responses between the sexes have to with "evolutionary" psychological responses to the way life was back in the "hyborean age", when only the strong males survived to monopolize most of the women. Generally speaking, women are much more adaptable to being part of a man's harem than men would be to share a woman. The man would rather kill his competitors than share. This is good from a natural selection angle. It makes sense and explains most of human history.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Also, what we are saying is that the marriage will NEVER be better for the loyal spouse. It may survive, but it will not be better for the loyal spouse as some marriage saver sites or counselors (all of whom make money off of perpetuating that belief) are saying.
> 
> You trusted someone, and now you can't. You thought you were special and now you know you're not.


All true, but.. I was tip-toeing and busting my butt for 10 years trying to make her life comfortable, and still falling short of her expectations. Now I can't be bothered (outside of normal level of decency to a fellow human), and receive no shortage of attention.

Yes, there is an obvious lack of trust, but looking back, my overall anxiety level was quite a bit higher. So how would you weigh one against the other? I suspect there is no clear-cut answer to that.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Ok - I've got to chime in here on the cheater bashing. Yes cheating sucks and we deserve to have our ass kicked for being such selfish, self absorbed people.
> 
> BUT....
> 
> ...


I truly believe you are among the small percentage of Wayward spouses who can learn from their mistake and make things better for both of you. 

I have read your posts. At first they gave me hope, but then I realized my disloyal spouse was not doing the things you did and continue to do. 

Also based on your posts you stopped on your own eventually. It was not your wife who insisted and persisted.

My spouse refused to continue MC and has never gone to IC.

I Think people like me are trying to help hurt spouses who are deep in the fog. There seem to be a lot of them here. 

Rather than address their posts directly which will only annoy them. I speak in generalities about cheaters. 

I still stand by my claim that the stats on successful recovery as presented by MCs and marriage saver sites are unrealistic, artificially inflated and incorrect due to self admitted lack of follow up on their part. 

Yes. I think MCs can keep a marriage limping along longer. But is that good?

It depends on the behavior of the disloyal spouse. 

In your case, based on what you say, I believe your wife can be happier. 

I do know that I initially told the counselor that things had improved, and I had convinced myself they had. I now realize they had not. 

Based on what I learned here. I was doing all the heavy lifting to R not my cheater spouse. I had convinced myself things were better because I wanted the to be better. I was in the fog.

Then I got the anonymous lap dance photo, more lies, and finally a confession about his men's club visits. 

I see it here. It's obvious to all but a blind man that based on the posts that some of the hurt spouses are doing all the heavy lifting, but they just can't see that yet.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I think a lot more marriages eventually fail. It may take five years or ten years but eventually the BS walks away....
> I think the failure rate is far higher than reported. ...
> I do think many faithful spouses stay longer than they should, but than eventually wake up.


When you cut through the BS, of _all_ the people I've known who divorced, once the truth finally comes out, adultery was at the bottom of it. When it happens, they may say drugs, religious differences, finances, meddlesome parents, astrological predictions, level of the water table, the M1 money supply, but in the end you find out that one of them was doing somebody else before the final decision to end it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> disagree
> 
> my marriage is better in many aspects (and of course the trust is no longer blind, but I think that's a good thing)
> 
> but I dont attribute the infidelity to making it better, although it was unfortunately the force that drove us to improve it


Fair enough, and I agree with your logic.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I have read your posts. At first they gave me hope, but then I realized my disloyal spouse was not doing the thing you did and continue to do.



I think you are applying your own situation to every situation, which is why I don't think the words "Never" and "always" belong in many sentences.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Fair enough, and I agree with your logic.



glad we agree!

and I'm sorry you had a husband who did that to you


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> When you cut through the BS, of _all_ the people I've known who divorced, once the truth finally comes out, adultery was at the bottom of it. When it happens, they may say drugs, religious differences, finances, meddlesome parents, astrological predictions, level of the water table, the M1 money supply, but in the end you find out that one of them was doing somebody else before the final decision to end it.


Excellent point. 

Being cheated on is humiliating so a lot of people cover it up both male and female. 

Also, in a no fault state the divorce papers may only say irreconcilable differences rather than infidelity. 

I am in a no fault or fault state. I have insisted that the papers state the marriage ended due to my husband's cheating. 

I don't want irreconcilable differences because then people will have to wonder about the reason and then my spouse can spread any false claim about me that he wishes and without court records it's a he said/she said claim.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

oldmittens said:


> I was recently thinking about this, how many BSs out there were actually the ones who ended there relationship. Most affairs seem to follow the same path, The WS becomes infatuated with the affair partner and either leave the BS for their affair partner or eventually ends the affair (The latter being the most common in my opinion) But I don't read "many" stories where Upon D-Day or after an attempt at recovery the BS ends the relationship and I was wondering why that is.
> 
> So I thought I would ask do you all do you really think most affairs can be recovered from??
> 
> also when a recovery/marriage fails because of infidelity do you think it's because the BS wants it to or because the WS does??


old mittens old pal I hope you don't mind me answering this question of yours....

From what I've seen in my life, I don't think most affairs can be recovered from. I say that not so much from personal experience but the experience of close friends who divorced because of infidelity. One had a husband who cheated very early in the marriage after they had their first child. He said he was sorry so she rugswept (in retrospect) what he did. They didn't have marriage counseling afterwards. His attitude was "how can we change you the betrayed spouse so that I don't cheat again." She thought it was her fault that he strayed. After that, she kept herself model thin though she wasn't overweight when he cheated. She would write in her weekly planner dates to have sex so that he wouldn't go more than two days without it. She would give him daily footrubs. She begged him to not cheat again. It was sad. Basically this highly educated attractive woman bent over backwards for him. Ten years later she discovered he was cheating and it was a LTA with someone she knew casually. She realized this time it wasn't anything she had done. The affair was always about him and filling something in him. After several months of limbo, she divorced him and is now much happier with a new man who treats her well. 

Oldmittens, on the site we both came from, I'm sure you remember there are many who would say their marriages were/are better after the infidelity than before. Perhaps if the marriage was really in shambles before the marriage, the post-affair reconstruction brought improved communication and greater intimacy. But what a bitter way to improve a marriage. Surely those things could have happened without the indescribable pain brought by cheating. 

Sometimes when I would read hear those BS say their marriages were better I would wonder if it wasn't a version of whistling past the graveyard - trying to make the best of bad circumstances. On one level I suppose if reconciliation happens a BS has to convince him or herself the marriage is better than what preceded it or how else do you stay?

One of my friends whose husband cheated told her that what he felt for the affair partner was just infatuation and not real love. Somehow that was supposed to be consolation for her that what he felt for the AP wasn't love. It wasn't any consolation to her. It is no comfort for her to hear that the "in love" feeling that he supposedly had was a feeling driven by a chemical alteration of the brain that mimicks the passion and heartfelt emotion of true love. Isn't infatuation the way we all fall in love in the first place? What is the difference between the feeling he had when he first fell in love with her the wife and this feeling that he had for AP?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> Sometimes when I would read hear those BS say their marriages were better I would wonder if it wasn't a version of whistling past the graveyard - trying to make the best of bad circumstances. On one level I suppose if reconciliation happens a BS has to convince him or herself the marriage is better than what preceded it or how else do you stay?


I think this is what I did for 5 years. I knew deep down in my heart I could never get over it. But still did. I knew I shouldn't take him back, but I did. And it was better. It has been so happy and magical the past 2 years....now I found out about an EA....

Get back to being a good marriage and it goes to crap. WTF.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I truly believe you are among the small percentage of Wayward spouses who can learn from their mistake and make things better for both of you.
> 
> I have read your posts. At first they gave me hope, but then I realized my disloyal spouse was not doing the things you did and continue to do.
> 
> ...


That has been my experience. My H continued to lie and misrepresent until just recently. I still don't know if I have been told the whole truth. He acted as if it was my obligation to get over his A, on his time frame and to act as if nothing ever happened because he saw the A as his right and my fault. He will deny that of course but his words have continued to betray his thought processes. " I couldn't pass up a woman like that";" I don't want to listen to the same things over and over again, just get over it" etc. A mind that can allow one to justify a betrayal is not the kind of mind that lends itself well to the rebuilding of a marriage. For that, a person needs a great deal of empathy and humility. I believe that most cheaters don't have them. I have a friend whose marriage ended after over 30 years because of a betrayal that happened when her children were small. When I heard about the D I was just about the only one who wasn't in the least surprised. Because it took 30 years for her to decide that she was done trying to get over it, some would call this a successful R. Her H was devastated; The mills of God grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine. My thought was that she should not have wasted all those years trying to rebuild a marriage with a person who was so innately selfish. I do believe that some marriages can be better, but not very many. I have no where to go, and no money with which to go there, and so I am still here. Some would call that a successful R. As I have sited before, 86% of all BS report that their marriages are not better, they are sad and damaged. It is the betrayer who usually reports that the marriage is better, and it is for them, but for the person they have betrayed, in most cases, it can never be what it was, much less better. Time cannot erase the memory or the hurt of it, it's just a sad fact .I will go on advising that the betrayed try R, not because I think it is likely, but because I think it is possible.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

I left my marriage just over 25 years ago.The following long term relationships I have had,I never considered re-marrying and that's part of the reason I value the insights here.Would I make the same decision to leave if it happened now? Hard to say,as I definitely have a few more tools in my toolbox now,and having come to understand over the years how imperfect we all can be at times I'm not as rigid in my thinking.


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## oldmittens (Dec 2, 2011)

while I personally think that most marriages can't recover from infidelity I can understand why some people want to try. But what I have a real hard time wrapping my head around are the BSs who continuously try to reconcile with a spouse whose shown no remorse and takes every opportunity to walk all over them.

Why these people go to the insane lengths that they do to save the marriage is beyond me, the VARs constantly tracking e-mails and having to track their spouses 24/7 all seems a bit nuts to me. Who wants to be in a marriage or you have to be a prison warden.

In the end I think its mostly up to the WS to save the marriage. In my opinion if they are not giving 110% there's not even a point to trying, and from what I've seen on this site most WSs barely put in any effort at all, at least not until it's too late.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> As I have sited before, 86% of all BS report that their marriages are not better, they are sad and damaged. It is the betrayer who usually reports that the marriage is better, and it is for them, but for the person they have betrayed, in most cases, it can never be what it was, much less better. Time cannot erase the memory or the hurt of it, it's just a sad fact .I will go on advising that the betrayed try R, not because I think it is likely, but because I think it is possible.


All so true. I am sad that you can not afford to leave. And, I think that is another issue for why more betrayed wives choose to reconcile over betrayed men. 

As for divorcing after 30 years, I think that happens because the betrayer forever changed the rules of the game. The betrayed broke the vows and they are forever broken and tainted. 

Hence, when the betrayed finally meets someone who makes them feel safe and loved and special they choose to leave. 

Maybe it took 30 years for this lady to find someone she could trust and in that respect she did not waste 30 years. She waited until she find the right guy. 

I chose to file because I know I will never get past this. The anger and humiliation is still palpable and the fact that my STBEH was still making excuses for his affair and doing stupid things. 

For example he said the affair was a mistake, but then when I found out about the lap dance he again said it was a mistake, I am sorry I screwed up. 

He didn't just screw up, it is so much worse than that. I am not sitting around waiting for him to screw up again. I don't have children and I will get half of everything. So, I am out of there.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I wonder about the survival rate all the time...I honestly every day wonder if too much damage has been done. I look at him differently this was someone I thought would never hurt me..yet he did it twice...the second time for 6 months behind my back. So many times I think screw it...why am I still here?????


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> I wonder about the survival rate all the time...I honestly every day wonder if too much damage has been done. I look at him differently this was someone I thought would never hurt me..yet he did it twice...the second time for 6 months behind my back. So many times I think screw it...why am I still here?????


Yes. The sex club issue was the last straw for me. 

I thought recovery was going well. I was making a lot of changes in me. He even mentioned to one counselor that I was doing more than he to facilitate recovery. 

Than I get an anonymous photo of him getting a lap dance six months into a supposed good recovery. 

His response: I am sorry I ***ked up. WTF.

I just don't see that I can ever trust this arse.

And, now I regret doing more of the work to try to facilitate recovery. I just feel further used and stupid.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Sometimes I wonder if I am staying out of the fear of the unknown and the hassle of a divorce or if I truly want to stay with this person...I honestly wish that someone could tell me what to do and a guarantee that it is the right decision.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> Sometimes I wonder if I am staying out of the fear of the unknown and the hassle of a divorce or if I truly want to stay with this person...I honestly wish that someone could tell me what to do and a guarantee that it is the right decision.


No one can make that decision for you. 

My husband still wants to reconcile and sometimes I doubt myself. But he is still acting like a jerk, saying I should be over this. 

He fails to realize, even though told repeatedly, that Every time he says that he just hammers another nail in the coffin of our fake marriage. 

I am glad in a way that he continues to act like a jerk. If not my decision would be more difficult.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> My husband still wants to reconcile and sometimes I doubt myself. But he is still acting like a jerk, *saying I should be over this.
> *


As you've said - here's the big difference - he wants YOU to reconcile, he doesn't want to have to do it himself. It's a two way street, it takes two to tango, ect....


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

highwood said:


> Sometimes I wonder if I am staying out of the fear of the unknown and the hassle of a divorce or if I truly want to stay with this person...I honestly wish that someone could tell me what to do and a guarantee that it is the right decision.


:iagree:
If and when you get that figured out. Please let me know the answer.:scratchhead:


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> As you've said - here's the big difference - he wants YOU to reconcile, he doesn't want to have to do it himself. It's a two way street, it takes two to tango, ect....


Thank you Sigma. And, exactly. It takes two to tango.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I left. It would've been very easy to reconcile but I couldn't live with the resentment nor fall back in love with her to be honest. There was always going to be that cloud over our relationship anyway.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I asked my wife to leave after DD#1 in 1994. We reconciled and stayed together eighteen years until January of this year. On DD#2 I asked her to leave again and I filed for divorce the next week. 

Here are my threads:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/39686-21-years-down-hole.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/41120-21-years-down-hole-part-2-a.html


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

She had been checked out of the marriage for months and was probably relieved when I found out about her affairs. She left and filed for divorce because she 'couldn't be the kind of wife that I wanted her to be.'


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

My ex handed me the papers the day she revealed that the two children "we" had were not fathered by me and she had no idea who their fathers were. The biggest favor she ever did was to file a trumped up physical abuse charge against me which landed me in jail for three days before I could get out. The lawyer who drew up the papers was supposed to be "our" attorney and the guy I ended up with when it went to court had dated her unbeknownst to me, ten years before we split.
She has attempted to crawl back in my life each time she has fallen on hard times, but I have less concern for her plight than I would have for a rabid dog who needs put down.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

oldmittens said:


> I was recently thinking about this, how many BSs out there were actually the ones who ended there relationship.
> 
> So I thought I would ask do you all do you really think most affairs can be recovered from??
> 
> also when a recovery/marriage fails because of infidelity do you think it's because the BS wants it to or because the WS does??


I'd say that the betrayed spouse ends the relationship at least as often as the wayward one, but for different reasons. 

If the marriage is strong enough and the wayward has integrity, it is possible to build a stronger marriage in the future. Unfortunately, many marriages are not as strong as they seemed before DDay because one or both spouses were not all in or were incompatible in ways they hadn't foreseen. It takes TWO honest and committed people to make a marriage work. Whether or not a marriage can recover from infidelity depends on so many factors, most of them revolving around sincerity.

When a marriage fails because of infidelity it fails because the wayward spouse has cheated. There may have been problems in the marriage contributed to by both betrayed and wayward spouses, but ultimately, the cheating kills the marriage.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I would say R is a harder road for the bs, than the ww's. While the journey of discovery and navigating through is a tough road for both, being "forgiven," is a whole lot easier to live w than "forgiving," as a couple. ((plz, I know the ww's have their own weight to carry...)) 

I think what's really hard for the bs, is when they are put in the positions of not wanting to be the one who must end something that the ww started, if that is the consequences of the ww behavior. 

As it was posted much "earlier" in this thread, there not much mentioned here on TAM when the bs decides to end the relationship. 

-sammy


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Bandit your threads don't exist.


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