# How green is the grass?



## leelo

I've been considering a divorce for a while, but I've also had doubts that I'm just fantizising over a more glamourous lifestyle. I keep seeing/reading advice that says "If you want to leave, don't ask for advice or wait for the right time, just go!!!" But that sounds awfully hasty.

What pitfalls am I not seeing? If you have gone through the divorce process, you have undoubtedly discovered things that you didn't know while you were still married. Is there anything you can share with those of us still in the consideration process?

Thank you


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## EnjoliWoman

Leelo - the grass is likely NOT greener. I would suggest marriage counseling and to try to save your marriage if at all possible. 

I see you aren't attracted to your wife. You and your wife should work on that together. If you have children with anyone else you may have the same lack of attraction and this will become a serial problem. You wouldn't be the first man to watch birth and view a woman's vagina in a completely different light.

Maybe in counseling you can find the absolute beauty and amazement in what the female body can do. It can turn a couple into a family. It can carry a life, bring it into this world and provide nutrients to it. If you can see all of that as a thing of beauty, a work of art - then maybe you can get over your aversion to her body. At least the part associated with birth. As to her being very heavy and therefore unattractive, you'll need to help her by watching the baby, praising any progress no matter how small, maybe start cooking or cooking together (if you don't) and pushing for gym time with her or long brisk walks with the stroller after dinner.

Most men find their wives very lovely before, during and after delivery. So many posts by men who think about the wonder of their children and even see their wives stretch marks as a symbol of sacrifice and love making them even more attracted to them.

But being single isn't glamorous. You'll spend many nights alone, you'll watch other couples with envy. You'll miss your child terribly or feel guilty when you don't. And who is to say that your next significant other won't get pregnant or gain weight or have the spark fizzle? 

I think you should learn to deal with this now and involve a marriage counselor.


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## Morgiana

When dating my decision, I read " Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" by Mira Kirshenbaum numerous times. I'm not religious and having a non-guilt based way to clearly evaluate my situation was a relief. Realize that your standard of life is probably going to be worse, and if you have kids you're always going to have a connection with your wife, there isn't a lot of glory in it normally. 

Wish you well.


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## NoWhere

From reading your other thread here I'd say you and your wife have major communication problems and deep hidden resentment issues. Seek counseling before you throw everything away. You will be thankful you did. 

As far as other issues. Sex isn't everything and while physical beauty can change depending on lifestyle, exercise and age other traits of a person remain the same. 

The problems you are experiencing now in your marriage are not just your wife's fault, but yours as well. If you just leave and move on you will just carry those same issues into the next relationship. Seek counseling for yourself and your marriage.


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## terrence4159

leelo find and read imadeamistakes thread that will tell you how green the grass is


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## Freak On a Leash

leelo said:


> I've been considering a divorce for a while, but I've also had doubts that I'm just fantizising over a more glamourous lifestyle. I keep seeing/reading advice that says "If you want to leave, don't ask for advice or wait for the right time, just go!!!" But that sounds awfully hasty.
> 
> What pitfalls am I not seeing? If you have gone through the divorce process, you have undoubtedly discovered things that you didn't know while you were still married. Is there anything you can share with those of us still in the consideration process?
> 
> Thank you


It's variable. It depends on just how bad your marriage is and how miserable you are. 

That's something you have to decide and work out. I'm all for a trial separation beforehand to get some space and figure it out. 

For me, it was MUCH better but I think I'm in the minority. Most people seem to be having a harder time after divorcing. I never really wanted to be married anyway. I'd never do it again.


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## COguy

I think WHY you are divorcing is just as important a question.

If you just have communication or unresolved relationship issues, I think you're going to find the grass is just as green on both sides. Relationships take work, and you're never going to find a woman that marriage just comes easily with. Having a "I'm just going to start over" mentality is what causes people to have 2nd and 3rd marriages.

If you're leaving because the relationship is abusive or there's cheating or one party is clearly not interested in working on the relationship, then that is a separate issue; and assuming you are actively working on your part and bettering yourself, I would say in that circumstance you could find the grass a lot greener. Though it will not be without its brown spots.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

My grass is plenty green over here!

That being said:

I am a person who relishes time alone.
A LOT of my interests are solitary, although I get along well with others.
I have familial commitments at this point (elderly parents on the edge of being unable to live alone in their own home any more) that are made EASIER by being unmarried.
My bills are paid ON TIME every month (something that could NOT be said while married to my STBXH).
I miss my high-school-aged child, but still talk/text/email/Skype. Have just learned to deal with the separation (like leaving for college) a little sooner than expected.
Went from a seriously RURAL AREA (OUTSIDE a town of 753 people!) to suburban Detroit. Am LOVING the availability of museums, entertainment, dining establishments, theaters, concerts, EVERYTHING there is to do in a large metropolitan area.
I wouldn't go back with STBXH for ANYTHING! I seriously stayed WAY TO LONG in an unhealthy situation.
You need to do some serious THINKING. ALONE. I recommend that people take paper/pencil and go OUT OF THE HOUSE to someplace comfortable: park, library, restaurant.

*Do some serious thinking:*

What is GREAT about your current relationship?
Is it likely to remain great?
What is BAD about your current relationship?
Is it something that CAN be fixed?
Would your spouse be willing to make the changes necessary to fix the problems?
Are YOU willing to make the changes necessary to fix the problems?
If you could wave a wand, what would you like your life to look like 5 years from now? The perfect life...
How about 10 years from now?
Could these dreams/goals be achieved with your current spouse?
What about with your current spouse as s/he is RIGHT NOW (without ANY change in their behavior)?
Lastly, if you KNEW you were going to be dead in 9 months, HOW would you want to have lived the last 9 months of your life? 
...why aren't you?
No-one can answer these questions, but YOU.
There are no "right" or "wrong" answers! You're entitled to feel the way you feel! 

Give it some serious thought. If you're stuck on some point or other, consider a few (6 or fewer) sessions of Individualized Counseling to help you figure out in which direction to take your life.

Good luck!


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## leelo

Thanks everyone.

COguy: bingo on the abuse and one parter not wanting to work on the relationship. If there is anything less than 100 percent obedience, agreement and servitude on my part, there will be an argument and if there is an argument, she will make sure that she gets the last word, and if there is a last word, she will make sure it's as guilt-laden and hurtful as possible. In other words, if I stand up for myself, she will do whatever it takes to hurt me. And it's the worst kind of abuse: subtle, evasive and hard to prove.

SlowlyGettingWiser: Those sound like good questions to answer. I think I'll do that. I have actually done a LOT of thinking, and alone at that. I've kept a journal for a year to chronicle the events that appear (to me) to be instances of abuse. I felt I needed to do this to divide reality from my own perspective. I'm a very forgiving person, and I have a tendency to "let it slide" no matter the altercation. Some may call it weakness (I certainly do), but if I attempt to remain strong, and not simply keep quiet and "take it," ...well, see my reply to COguy above.


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## COguy

You might want to start recording and video taping your interactions then. There's a bunch of sound recording apps for smart phones now. You may be really surprised at what you hear when you go back a few days/weeks later.


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## naga75

depends on what kind of problems you have and how serious they are.
WS usually finds out that the grass that looked so good from the other side of the fence was actually fake astroturf. and itchy.
thats what my wife found out.
in your case, it sounds like it might be much greener.


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## SingleInTx

The grass is greener in many ways: 
-No controlling spouse
-No substance abuse in the home
-Not having to be yelled at because I had lunch with male coworkers
-Alone time
-A clean house
-No stress of arguing parents around the kids

The grass is also dying, in dire need of water and has weeds!
-Financial difficulty- no child support and living on one income
-FULL 100% responsibility for the kids, no family in the area so having little to no "adult" time whether to relax and take a bath or go out with my FWB. 

That is MY situation, though- every marriage and divorce is unique. Some would probably be happier staying married, when MC and trial sep didn't work for me, I pulled the D trigger and haven't looked back. I do not regret my divorce, in fact it is highly unlikely I'll ever marry again. I am much happier divorced even though life can be harder.

Good luck.


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## Freak On a Leash

:iagree: :iagree: :smthumbup:

You and I sound a lot alike SingleInTx. Being married to addicts/alcoholics really puts things in perspective, doesn't it? It puts you in a different category altogether it seems.

Even though we are both THE only support financially and emotionally for our kids and times can be tough you feel a sense of pride and commitment as well. We are IT. We are the tether and bedrock for those kids and that makes a world of difference. 

So yeah, it sucks in some ways but that's about 10%. 90% of it is good. We know that ourselves and our kids are in a better place and going at it alone also means we are in CONTROL. With an addict/alcoholic there is no control. Your life is completely insane and when they are gone it's all about being in a better place. 

I still remember coming home from work that first day my husband was gone and NOT seeing him there on that porch. NOT seeing his brooding, creepy, drunken presence sitting in that chair stairing off into space. NOT having to hear his footsteps coming upstairs and worrying about what was going to happen next and feeling that ache in the pit of my gut..

I didn't miss him then and never have. I never want to feel it again. 

So in order to achieve peace and sanity, we get through it all, laugh with and love our kids and feel good at the end of a long tired day when they hug you goodnight and tell you they love you. Best payback ever. 

In 10 years you'll feel a lot better cuz your kids willl be doing good and you can then go out and PARTEE! :smthumbup: I'm there and the water is fine!


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## eldubya

I think I share similar thoughts with FreakonaLeash and SingleInTx. I am alive...its not clear how much longer I would have lived. The house was becoming a hoarding hazard I just couldnt even breath in anymore. Yeah the pit in my stomach is gone..the pit from worrying constantly that the xH was going to do something dire to myself, the pets or the house. (If youre in an abusive situation with kids its even greener on the other side..abuse can ruin their lives entirely!)


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## EnjoliWoman

COguy said:


> You might want to start recording and video taping your interactions then. There's a bunch of sound recording apps for smart phones now. You may be really surprised at what you hear when you go back a few days/weeks later.


I did that actually hoping my ex would hear the way he talked to me and our daughter. He found it while I was at work. He was angry I recorded him and it really made no difference. But that was the NPD not allowing him to think he could be the offending party.

I wonder, now that I know more of the story, if the wife has NPD.


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## COguy

EnjoliWoman said:


> I did that actually hoping my ex would hear the way he talked to me and our daughter. He found it while I was at work. He was angry I recorded him and it really made no difference. But that was the NPD not allowing him to think he could be the offending party.
> 
> I wonder, now that I know more of the story, if the wife has NPD.


I wouldn't do it for the other person, I'd do it for myself.

Dealing with people with PD's, the most damaging side effect is making YOU feel like your crazy. The recordings are an objective way to say, "Hey I shared my feelings in a constructive way and was met with unnecessary aggression."


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## kcguy

EnjoliWoman said:


> I did that actually hoping my ex would hear the way he talked to me and our daughter. He found it while I was at work. He was angry I recorded him and it really made no difference. But that was the NPD not allowing him to think he could be the offending party.
> 
> I wonder, now that I know more of the story, if the wife has NPD.


That's in a sad way hilarious. I video'd my ew during one of our talks to show how she talked to me. it's their way of taking the focus of them and getting pissed at you were acting nice, you were setting them up. haaahaah. What denial. She couldn't handle seeing herself. I was getting frustrated in it too, watching myself? I went..wow.. look what I am letting her do to me. It was an eye opener. I took it to a theapist, got help. I then after time, divorced her. I was told, and I got it, relationships change over time, we change, they change with age, etc. We have to grieve the losses that come with it. Sometimes some hurt more than others. Sometimes, we don't greive them, but let resentment build up instead. The like a little wagon, we pull it around filling it with rocks, it holds us back from the life we want. It's not them, it's us. They are who they are. We try to love them to change, we change us to change them, we argue, fight to keep our marriages, we don't want to be quitters. We want the outside to match this expectation we've come to create in our mind. most of the time some it will hit spot on, most of it will never hit, grieve. it's like a death, the death that reality isn't what we hoped it would be. it hurts, it sucks, why us? It's ok. She abandoned me during a stent operation, the nurses we're looking for her to get approval to do the stent. They had to wake me up from anathesia to ask me if it was ok. When they confronted her, she said she was running home to get a sweater and would be right back. 1.5 hours later, she showed up. They were pissed. She got mad they scolded the living **** out of her. I was pissed she left me, when I told her, you said you were coming right back. A person who can't admit their wrong, or has done wrong even when the evidence is so overwhelming, they get pissed cuz their caught. Not because of remorse. you, I, we didn't get it until we had to have enough experience to understand the patterns. Then the light bulb comes on and we go holy crap. When you said he got pissed when you tried to let him hear the recording. His defensiveness is so strong, his ego is so huge, that little boy can't handle the real world. He has problems that he won't deal with and you're the door mat he wipes his feet on. We all deserve better. I died during a heart attack several years ago, during that time, i spoke with my gramma. She said we all pay for what we do while we're here. I paid for my choices, and I was paying for her crap too. I was told to get well and leave her. I finally did.. I tried to reconcile again, lol, but wow.. I saw why Gramma told me to leave her. EW was worse than before. I really saw the woman behind the masks. Being alone for the right reasons, is so much better than being with someone for the wrong reasons. Go to therapy for a bit. Have a professional help you. I did.. Do everything you can, so you can walk away with pride, dignity and respect. good luck.


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## Shoto1984

I don't think you can go into a divorce thinking your going to have a more glamorous life on the other side. If that is it then maybe stay and make the life you have more glamorous. I think you have to be really miserable in your current situation AND have exhausted all the avenues available trying to make it better. If you come from a really low place whatever you find on the other side is likely to be generally better. And if you really tried to fix it then you'll not be left with thoughts of what I could have / should have done.


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## stillhoping

Shoto-I hope people go into D the way you describe it, cause if not, it leaves a lot of devastation. Not everyone who leaves has made the kinds of effort you are talking about.


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## Going Mental

Its not greener, just different. Some things I expected to be hard aren't, other things I thought would be easy are incredibly difficult.


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## Anathon

Might recommend "Love and Respect" as we found that book helpful to see how woman and men are different and have different needs.


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## stillhoping

and all the things that were wrong in my marriage could have been fixed, except for the partner who didn't want to do the work.


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## Houstondad

stillhoping said:


> and all the things that were wrong in my marriage could have been fixed, except for the partner who didn't want to do the work.


I'm totally with you there stillhoping. I hope you don't mind me sharing my experience.
In my former marriage,there were problems we weren't communicating with each other. My EX then took the easy and completely wrong way out (infidelity). That's when it hit me with a ton of bricks. Fight or flight? I fought. I fought to save my marriage.
At times, I handled saving the marriage incorrectly, but I always had the right/good intentions of making it work when my marriage was up against the ropes. I kept getting knocked down (she couldn't disconnect with the OM) and I would just get back up and not give up. When many would have pulled the plug, I continued to have faith. It was when I exhausted everything and my EX continued to go in the other direction was when I finally pulled the plug, nearly a year to the day since D-day.
And yes, I am now divorced. Because of all my efforts post D-day, I have no regrets. My EX never truly tried to do the hard work. She'll have to live with that.


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## ExisaWAW

HouDad,

I feel exactly the same, man. My ex didn't really try after I found out about her affair. Her narcissism and dysfunctional ego wouldn't allow her to show remorse, etc. She quickly went from guy to guy & has had the same BF for 8 mos. While it looks like they're doing well, I doubt she'd really admit if they were having problems in any event because she HAS to show everyone that all is well after the D. Wish I could say the same.




Houstondad said:


> My EX then took the easy and completely wrong way out (infidelity). That's when it hit me with a ton of bricks. Fight or flight? I fought. I fought to save my marriage.
> 
> At times, I handled saving the marriage incorrectly, but I always had the right/good intentions of making it work when my marriage was up against the ropes.
> 
> And yes, I am now divorced. Because of all my efforts post D-day, I have no regrets. My EX never truly tried to do the hard work. She'll have to live with that.


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## ExisaWAW

Leelo, sorry to post on your thread & not answer your question For me, having been married 13 yrs w/ 2 small girls & divorced 11 months now, I would opt for counseling, a Christian based couples retreat, reading Divorce Busting & Divorce Remedy, or all the above first. Unless there is abuse, etc., I would make divorce an absolute last option, especially if you have children. We never tried counseling or any of those things. My ex was probably going through a MLC when she had her affair and when she was caught, wanted out. I'm devastated and our children will have to suffer the rest of their lives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## leelo

ExisaWAW, I'm quite conviced that I am in an abusive relationship. Like Occam's Razor, when asking why she acts the way she does, the answer that makes the most sense is "because this is abuse."

After keeping a journal (and dealing with more instances since then), I can see the patterns much more clearly and they line up with the definitions of emotional abuse.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Leelo:

Have you considered getting some Individualized Counseling to help you solidify plans to leave your emotionally-abusive wife? It might help you FEEL BETTER to talk to an outside, impartial observer who can help you deal EFFECTIVELY with your emotions.

You should also talk to a GREAT divorce attorney (ask around quietly). The first visit should be free or low-cost. Obtain as much information as possible on how long it will take, how much it will cost, how your attorney sees it playing out (with her emotional abuse explained to the attorney on the front-end...trust me, you won't be this attorney's FIRST client with an abusive STBX), what papers, documentation, etc. you need copies of.

Good luck and get some PROFESSIONAL help to disentangle yourself from this mess. You WILL start to feel better IMMEDIATELY once you do not have to deal DAILY with the stresses of emotional abuse.

Lots of us have been there, leelo, and we're PULLING for YOU!!!!


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## Wiserforit

leelo said:


> I've also had doubts that I'm just fantizising over a more glamourous lifestyle.


Heh. Well in my case it wasn't glamor I was looking for, but escape from clinical level abuse and cheating.

I wasn't even thinking ahead to another relationship or how being single would be. Just this overwhelming need to get away from constant anguish, drama, and suffering.


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## WasDecimated

ExisaWAW said:


> HouDad,
> 
> I feel exactly the same, man. My ex didn't really try after I found out about her affair. Her narcissism and dysfunctional ego wouldn't allow her to show remorse, etc. She quickly went from guy to guy & has had the same BF for 8 mos. While it looks like they're doing well, I doubt she'd really admit if they were having problems in any event because she HAS to show everyone that all is well after the D. Wish I could say the same.


This was my experience as well. She couldn't seem to break it off with him. She also kept up the lies, ambivalence and emotional abuse... arrogantly blaming me for everything. She was showing me who she actually was. I never got the whole, honest story. I stuck with it for over a year and a half until I finally filed. I felt as if I had done everything I possibly could do to save us...she did the bare minimum.

Now I understand OM has dumped her. Our son over heard her on the phone with him. He said she was crying and it sounded like she begging him...nice. Our divorce in now final...so is his. She must be out by the end of next month. The consequences and reality is starting to set in, and the grass...not so green anymore.


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## ExisaWAW

Decimated. Wow, Karma. I wonder if she'll start coming around to try & reconcile with you now. Have you visited the forums at DivorceBusting.com? Might pay off for you if you want to reconcile with your stbx. 

As for me, my ex's current relationship is looking very strong. He's nuts about her. It's a complicated situation though because he's got 3 kids & we have 2. She tells me whenever they talk marriage & where they would live, etc. they end up in an argument because they live an hour from each other and neither one wants to move. I sure wish that R would run its course...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WasDecimated

ExisaWAW said:


> Decimated. Wow, Karma. I wonder if she'll start coming around to try & reconcile with you now. Have you visited the forums at DivorceBusting.com? Might pay off for you if you want to reconcile with your stbx.
> 
> As for me, my ex's current relationship is looking very strong. He's nuts about her. It's a complicated situation though because he's got 3 kids & we have 2. She tells me whenever they talk marriage & where they would live, etc. they end up in an argument because they live an hour from each other and neither one wants to move. I sure wish that R would run its course...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I doubt that she will...hasn't yet. I think she may eventually but it will take her hitting rock bottom first and she hasn't gone that low yet. Although, she did show a spark of empathy a few weeks ago...but it was short lived. She just wants to go out with her friends and party...have a good time even with him out of the picture. I think her affair has destroyed the love she once had for me so I am not even her backup plan or second choice. It is a true MLC. Honestly, she has done so much damage to me and us that it would take an act of God to change my mind. I realized that without the truth from her early on, after at least the first 3 D days, I just couldn't stay with her.


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## ExisaWAW

Dedicated, yeah, mine did the same thing. She broke it off with the OM when I caught her. While we were separated, she dated a little, then once the D was final, wow! She went through 4 guys before she found Mr. Wonderful. How old is your ex? Mine turned 40 & lost her mind. It's all about the parties now. We went to an occasional party or out to dinner/ etc. from time to time but once our kids started getting involved with activities, etc. our social life suffered as all married couples invariably do. But now it's party time every weekend & even during the week. I don't recognize her anymore. Crazy stuff. 

If your ex is having financial issues or once she starts to feel the difference of not having two incomes, she could come back. Unfortunately mine left with over a half million, so for her the grass is literally greener.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## leelo

Thanks, everyone, for the responses. I have decided to pull the trigger on the D, I just have to plan the escape route and arrange for my finances and accounts to "flip over" to me on the day of the announcement.

The decision came after a year or more of consideration. She constantly oversteps my boundaries, tells me I'm too sensitive when I say something, refuses to compromise for the sake of better communication with me, and uses blame as a diversion if we are disagreeing about something. By doing so, she shows me that she doesn't care about my feelings, and traverses into the realm of abuse.

I'm unhappy, distrustful of her and finished with the relationship. I want to treat her like an adult and do this D in a respectful, mature manner, but I predict that she will blow up and try to hurt me back as much as possible. That's why I am planning the escape route.

I've heard advice that says I should just stand up to her and not back down. But this advice is the same as saying "Just hit him harder" to a female victim of physical abuse. She "hits harder" than I do with her words.

Thanks again everyone. Wish me luck.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Hey, leelo:

If you *think* your STBXW MAY be a narcissist, then go to KathyBatesel's homepage (she's a TAM member...look her up at the top of this page under 'Community'...everyone is listed alphabetically) and check out the links on her homepage to dealing with (and divorcing from) a narcissist.

If she's ANYTHING like my STBXH or some other people here at TAM's narcissistic ex's...she will have a "scorched earth" policy that YOU and your attorney SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR.

Please do a little research (Google) on divorcing a narcissistic personality. This will help you & attorney as well as getting your financial eggs in a basket!

Good luck, leelo!

*hugs*
SGW


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## leelo

I have my consultation with a laywer next week.

I'm not a confrontational kind of guy. Like I've stated before, it's a weakness. It means that this endeavor gets more and more terrifying for me. Each step is further than I've ever gone as far as a "fight." Remember in the Lord of the Rings where Sam stops and says "If I take one step, it's the farthest I've ever been?" Yeah, I feel like that. Like I'm trudging into Mordor.

The "nice guy" in me wants to give her the benefit of the doubt and assumes that we can work this out on our own, therefore making this ugly process as easy as possible, mainly for the child involved. The pragmatist in me says that she will be vintictive, will see this as an attack, and will attack back just to make sure I'm hurt more than she is.

So the thing that scares me the most now is this: Am I going to ramp up a conflict unnecessarily by preparing to fight? Or am I wise to predict the conflict and prepare myself accordingly? I know none of you can answer this for me. This are just my thoughts.


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## LostViking

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Freak On a Leash

leelo said:


> It means that this endeavor gets more and more terrifying for me. Each step is further than I've ever gone as far as a "fight." Remember in the Lord of the Rings where Sam stops and says "If I take one step, it's the farthest I've ever been?" Yeah, I feel like that. Like I'm trudging into Mordor..


I know that feeling! I think it's what kept me in 23 years of a bad marriage. But once you overcome those fears, walk up the steps to Mt Doom, cast your fears aside and throw them into the fiery pit you can start fresh. 

I love LOTRs analogies. Such an awesome book. :smthumbup:



leelo said:


> So the thing that scares me the most now is this: Am I going to ramp up a conflict unnecessarily by preparing to fight? Or am I wise to predict the conflict and prepare myself accordingly? I know none of you can answer this for me. This are just my thoughts.


"Knowledge is Power" "Forewarned is Forearmed". The more you can put aside your emotions and engage in a rational, coolheaded and logical manner the better the results will be. Emotions, anger, the thirst for vengeance have no place in divorce proceedings. It's about the law and the law is cold, unemotional and doesn't care about your marriage, it's problems or what's "fair". 

You need to be aware of that and embrace it. When you feel you can then you are ready. If you feel as if you are going to fall apart emotionally then you need to wait, plan and work on yourself until you can deal with this. That's the best single piece of advice I can give you. 

I separated from my STBXH two years ago. I was emotionally raw and wrecked. So many people were surprised that I didn't file then and asked me why I was waiting. There were a lot of reasons but the main one was "I just can't deal with divorce and what my husband will do and say as a result". 

Best decision I ever made. He definitely threw everything he had at me when I did do it. 2 years ago I would've fallen apart for sure. Now I just weathered the storm and forged ahead. I'm proud at how I've conducted myself and while the results financially aren't what I hoped for at least I'm dealing with it and forging ahead in a positive and responsible manner. 

So if you are feeling shaky emotionally I'd say hold off until you are on firm ground. But line up your ducks and do your homework. Find out what your options are, talk to several divorce attorneys (many give free consultations) and speak to other people about their situation. Join a divorce support group. Become a stronger, knowledgeable person and arm yourself for the fight that is sure to come. Don't go into this blindly. 

And good luck!


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## geek down

Freak On a Leash said:


> I know that feeling! I think it's what kept me in 23 years of a bad marriage. But once you overcome those fears, walk up the steps to Mt Doom, cast your fears aside and throw them into the fiery pit you can start fresh.
> 
> I love LOTRs analogies. Such an awesome book. :smthumbup:


Frodo lost a finger, Golem lost his life...Bilbo just lived longer...Sauron was defeated for it and Gandalf rose above it..

Who will you be?


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## Freak On a Leash

geek down said:


> Frodo lost a finger, Golem lost his life...Bilbo just lived longer...Sauron was defeated for it and Gandalf rose above it..
> 
> Who will you be?


I'm Aragorn because I RULE!! We're talking RETURN OF THE KING on April 1st here dude!  :smthumbup:

Rock on, live it up and party down! :toast:

_Bow down before the one you serve!!_ 

Gotta love Nine Inch Nails...

Nine Inch Nails - Head Like A Hole - YouTube

:allhail:


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## geek down

You're going to get what you deserve...

LOVE NIN....

I'd be Boromir....

And Leelo... I'm sorry but I can't resist..








Multi-pass


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## Freak On a Leash

geek down said:


> You're going to get what you deserve...
> 
> LOVE NIN....
> 
> I'd be Boromir....


:smthumbup: Awesome song! 

Boromir? He gets killed by the Orcs! But at least he goes down fighting and dies with honor. I guess if you gotta go that's the way to do.


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## geek down

Freak On a Leash said:


> :smthumbup: Awesome song!
> 
> Boromir? He gets killed by the Orcs! But at least he goes down fighting and dies with honor. I guess if you gotta go that's the way to do.


Thats me.. flawed...but in the end I do the right thing.


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## Chuck71

leelo-If the abuse is to the extent you described.....there is nothing wrong with filing for D. Sometimes it takes a spouse seeing the D papers before they realize...those threats of D were real. You can stop a D at any time. You can stop it the morning of it being final. 

Observe at 50k feet after you file. That is the 'watch what she does not what she says' period. Maybe that would be the needed action to shake things up and get them into the open. Yes most marriages can be saved but the key is will both step to the plate and give it 110%?

I think you read my D threads leelo....currently the ex is miserable and I am enjoying the single life and a new potential interest.


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## leelo

Chuck, thanks and I agree, but I'm not interested in her changing. I don't want things to get better. I want things to end.

I had a great metaphor happen to me this weekend.

She told me to "tighten the floor bolts" on the toilet. I didn't argue. I tightened them. The tile under the toilet cracked. I knew that they were too tight. I realized, afterward, that I had been to afraid to argue with her. I silenced my own knowledge, experience and instincts to accommodate her whim. When we talk about these kinds of things (house maintenance, motor repair, etc.), she takes on the persona of the bad manager: she has no idea what she's talking about, but she'll micro-manage the task until it's no longer productive. And I have to fight, argue, prove my point & fight some more to get her to understand "It doesn't work that way." It furthers my belief that she doesn't value my opinion.

Yes, I could have made her tighten the bolts. I should have made her tighten the bolts. But I was afriad of her. Silly? I think so. But true. And further reason for me to end the relationship. It cracked, just like the relationship, because standing up to her, simply to offer my opinion, takes so much effort.

I understand that a marriage takes work, but it shouldn't be torture, especially over something as simple as whether or not the toilet is bolted to the floor too tightly.


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## Chuck71

The choice is yours and I support your thoughts. It will be rough but you have to look out for you. I did not have any children with her-thank God-but walking away from the once thought everlasting is hard. I had to step outside myself to do it. It sounds as if you are too.


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## leelo

I think you're right. I have to step outside of myself.


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## brokenbythis

kcguy said:


> that's in a sad way hilarious. I video'd my ew during one of our talks to show how she talked to me. It's their way of taking the focus of them and getting pissed at you were acting nice, you were setting them up. Haaahaah. What denial. She couldn't handle seeing herself. I was getting frustrated in it too, watching myself? I went..wow.. Look what i am letting her do to me. It was an eye opener. I took it to a theapist, got help. I then after time, divorced her. I was told, and i got it, relationships change over time, we change, they change with age, etc. We have to grieve the losses that come with it. Sometimes some hurt more than others. Sometimes, we don't greive them, but let resentment build up instead. The like a little wagon, we pull it around filling it with rocks, it holds us back from the life we want. It's not them, it's us. They are who they are. We try to love them to change, we change us to change them, we argue, fight to keep our marriages, we don't want to be quitters. We want the outside to match this expectation we've come to create in our mind. Most of the time some it will hit spot on, most of it will never hit, grieve. It's like a death, the death that reality isn't what we hoped it would be. It hurts, it sucks, why us? It's ok. She abandoned me during a stent operation, the nurses we're looking for her to get approval to do the stent. They had to wake me up from anathesia to ask me if it was ok. When they confronted her, she said she was running home to get a sweater and would be right back. 1.5 hours later, she showed up. They were pissed. She got mad they scolded the living **** out of her. I was pissed she left me, when i told her, you said you were coming right back. A person who can't admit their wrong, or has done wrong even when the evidence is so overwhelming, they get pissed cuz their caught. Not because of remorse. You, i, we didn't get it until we had to have enough experience to understand the patterns. Then the light bulb comes on and we go holy crap. When you said he got pissed when you tried to let him hear the recording. His defensiveness is so strong, his ego is so huge, that little boy can't handle the real world. He has problems that he won't deal with and you're the door mat he wipes his feet on. We all deserve better. I died during a heart attack several years ago, during that time, i spoke with my gramma. She said we all pay for what we do while we're here. I paid for my choices, and i was paying for her crap too. I was told to get well and leave her. I finally did.. I tried to reconcile again, lol, but wow.. I saw why gramma told me to leave her. Ew was worse than before. I really saw the woman behind the masks. Being alone for the right reasons, is so much better than being with someone for the wrong reasons. Go to therapy for a bit. Have a professional help you. I did.. Do everything you can, so you can walk away with pride, dignity and respect. Good luck.


this describes my stbxh to a "t"


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## bussunda100

This site is great! 

This is a bit tricky...a bit like ying and yang...
I actually had the same doubts as you when I was married. Desire to be single again, go out, meet new girls and sometimes my wife felt like a an anchor dragging me back.

But I also cherished our hubby & wife cozy moments together, and also having someone to share all moments. 

It IS CONTRADICTORY. 

The grass is greener? In some respects it is but in some others not.

Being single means you are free and available to do what the **** you want...but also more lonely. But it's a different loneliness, you still can have friends and flings and dates to enjoy your new life with. Before it was only, mostly our Ex that we shared experiences with.


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## Freak On a Leash

There were plenty of times I was a LOT lonelier married to my ex than I am being single.


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## brokenbythis

Freak On a Leash said:


> There were plenty of times I was a LOT lonelier married to my ex than I am being single.


I hear ya, The lonliest time in my life was the last few years I spend with my STBXH. He ignored me, he worked nights, I had nobody to talk to, nobody to share with even when he was home. No sex no effection no love. And I was MARRIED.

It really was the lonliest time of my life.


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## Freak On a Leash

brokenbythis said:


> I hear ya, The lonliest time in my life was the last few years I spend with my STBXH. He ignored me, he worked nights, I had nobody to talk to, nobody to share with even when he was home. No sex no effection no love. And I was MARRIED.
> 
> It really was the lonliest time of my life.


I hear you.  It was the same with me. At one point, my ex husband would climb into bed fully clothed and be as far away on the other side of the bed as possible. He did some real damage to my psyche over the years with all his crap. He was cold, withheld sex, was critical and abusive and basically ignored me. 

THEN he thought I was having an affair (I wasn't) and made my life miserable over THAT. 

It's amazing I still talk to him. I just hope that the damage he inflicted will go away with time because I'd hate to bring that emotional baggage into another relationship. I won't get involved with anyone who isn't totally into being with me. I'm not begging anyone to spend time or have sex with me again.


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## brokenbythis

Freak On a Leash said:


> I won't get involved with anyone who isn't totally into being with me. I'm not begging anyone to spend time or have sex with me again.


This is me. After he asked me to take him back again the other day I told him "I want to be with someone who is crazy about me not someone who treats me like a leper".

I like you had to literally beg for affection, companionship, love. Never again. The next guy (if there ever is one) has to show he really likes ME and wants to give me all the things I need in a relationship.

I'm not taking crumbs anymore.


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## Freak On a Leash

brokenbythis said:


> I like you had to literally beg for affection, companionship, love. Never again. .


 Sucks, doesn't it? When my ex husband would turn me down it felt like someone was taking a knife and cutting me from the inside out. It literally ripped my heart out. I'll never allow myself to go through that again.


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## Serenity_Prayer

It is better for me. My ex was so unemotional, I had to live as a zombie to tolerate my marriage. I cried whenever I thought about it, and more than one person asked me if he was abusive. Being unemotional, he blew off my repeated pleas to work on the marriage and go to counseling. I couldn't do it alone. Probably could have worked out if he was willing to work on it too, but that means he'd have been a different person. 

I feel that I've come back to life. I'm getting back into things I couldn't enjoy before because I was always with the kids while he worked, or sitting home with him hoping it was a day he felt like being nice. I have new friends. I'm working out more. I'm expanding my mind. 

On the downside, I miss my kids when they're with him, and feel guilty when they're with him because he doesn't tend to their emotional needs at all. He's still that angry, detached man. I feel that I've saved myself, but not them. I'm also craving male attention, which I had been for years, but now looking for someone new to fill that gap. I go back and forth between missing having a man and enjoying my solitude.

So, I'm glad I did it, but it depends on what you're leaving and how willing your spouse is to make things better. Good luck and I hope it works out the way it's supposed to.


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## Stretch

I think there is a subtlety here that would be great for those who have an opportunity to save their marriages should know. That is some of us that have a WAS were to stupid, stubborn or blind to realize the depths of the problem. 

I am not an emotionless person by a long shot. However, I was such a fool not to see my WAW's loneliness and pain. The danger is the time it takes for the non-lonely spouse to get the message and make a committment to real change like when many of us do the 180. For me it was too late, my WAW had already gone through the whole emottional separation process and it was too late to go back. If I had understood earlier in her process I could have made the needed change.

Becoming best friends instead of husband and wife was our undoing. Friends have strong emotional ties and support but let's face it, it is so much different than marital connection and support. Nevertheless, I deeply loved my WAW the day before and the day of her revelation to me about not being happy.

So here is the real kicker, the grass should not be greener, but it will be for any partner I have today or in the future. I will never blur the line and I will let my lady know how much I care about her everyday.

In the back of my mind, I will always regret not being able to make the change to save my marriage but I am very excited about being a better partner for the rest of my life.

Stretch


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## Chuck71

Your marital partner should also be your best friend. But you are correct in the breakdown of communication. Was a big part of my and ex's divorce.


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## BaxJanson

I hear what you're saying about the emotional abuse. I read the research, and it says 'they enjoy excersizing control over you, they place you in situations where they can further abuse you' and I think, 'Nah, that's not her. If anything, she's doing this completely oblivious to the fact that she's doing it.'

It wasn't until I was holding the knife praying for the strength to end it all that I realized 'It doesn't matter if the grass is greener or not. Here, there is no grass.' I've since come to realize that it didn't matter if she was aware she was doing it or not - she was doing it, and it was damaging me. 

But it all looks so innocent when viewed as separate events, doesn't it? A word here, a look there, a scolding word instead of thanks, a disparaging one when you hold your head up with pride. It feels like death by a thousand cuts. I stepped out before the final one.

I know she loves me. But she doesn't value me, respect me, or cherish me. So I'm trying a healing separation first. I want to give her the chance to realize what I've seen while I heal. After this... who knows? Maybe she'll change, maybe I will. Maybe one or both of us would meet someone new (God, that would be wonderful) Maybe I'll live on my own the rest of my life. I miss my kids awful. But all I know is, since I told her I wanted out, I have not felt the need to pick up that knife again. It's going to take some serious repair to overcome that.


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