# So...I don't get it...



## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Just told my wife that she will see in the next bill a charge for my counseling/coaching. She flipped. Asked how long I had been going for and why I didn't think it was important to tell her. Also, she said "I don't know who you are...". In truth I always poo pooed counseling/coaching as I know it all and can fix everything right...lol? But I told her I am doing it to be a better me and did not think it was a big deal. Mind you she was barely talking to me several weeks ago and as I stated on prior posts, didn't even ask about the results of some serious medical tests I had. I get the transparency thing but man. Also, I had asked her if she wanted to go for joint counseling a while back or get a book and practice some exercises...nope...she wasn't ready. I don't get it...frustrated....

Thoughts my friends?


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

It's probably the lack of communication for her too. Frustrating.

I think.... just keep doing what you need to do, but let her know what you are doing. Everything doesn't have to be up for debate. Just common curtesy tho!


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Yep, that's bizarre. Maybe she is just slower to adapt to the changes you are making, and maybe she didn't believe you were as dedicated to following through like you are. Keep up the good work.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Because she is feeling the control that she craves slipping through her fingers.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Thanks. Yeah I hear you on common courtesy and transparency: it's a good point. It is my nature. Admitting that I need help is to be honest embarrassing for me and just hard to even say. Everything I do for lack of better words has "manliness" or being tough deeply entrenched in it...especially with the fire service. If anything I would have thought she would have said "wow...that is great and a big step for you...proud...really shows you are trying...wish you would have told me sooner but...". Instead I got some serious grief but I didn't get pissed and blast her as I normally would have. Remained calm and said I didn't think me bettering myself was something to get upset over and besides she would see it on the bill so I am telling her.

Really tough to be calm at the moment but I will stay the course...let it go...do something active to take my mind off of it or start drinking at 10AM... 

Thanks for your thoughts...appreciate it as always...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ignore her reaction. Remember that every one of us is basically out to protect ourselves...from everyone else. If you and your W aren't on equal terms, if you aren't on the same team, if you aren't rooting each other on, it makes sense for her to see any action you make as AGAINST HER.

Just keep being a great person and let her see it.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Look, nobody really likes surprises. This came as a surprise.

Also, nobody likes being wrong - especially about spouses, kids etc - she now thinks she didn't really know you which undermines her in many ways.

And thirdly, she may have believed you when you previously said you didn't need counselling - now she is questioning her beliefs.

So I am not surprised at her reaction.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

She sees the potential for the narrative that she's spun to begin unraveling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

tailrider3 said:


> Just told my wife that she will see in the next bill a charge for my counseling/coaching. She flipped. Asked how long I had been going for and why I didn't think it was important to tell her. Also, she said "I don't know who you are...". In truth I always poo pooed counseling/coaching as I know it all and can fix everything right...lol? But I told her I am doing it to be a better me and did not think it was a big deal. Mind you she was barely talking to me several weeks ago and as I stated on prior posts, didn't even ask about the results of some serious medical tests I had. I get the transparency thing but man. Also, I had asked her if she wanted to go for joint counseling a while back or get a book and practice some exercises...nope...e wasn't ready. I don't get it...frustrated....
> 
> Thoughts my friends?


Tell her exactly what you just wrote here. 

Tell her you want to be a better man and decided to do something about it. Tell her this also.
Considering she didn't seem to be too interested in whether you were alive or dead (your tests) and refused to talk to you you went ahead and decided to take care of you.
You do not need her permission, never did and never will. Your discussions with your counsellor are in fact private but if she wants to go to a joint one, you will. But you are not going to beg, plead, etc with her, you have no control over what she chooses to do, but that does not mean you are going to wait on her.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

aine said:


> Tell her exactly what you just wrote here.
> 
> Tell her you want to be a better man and decided to do something about it. Tell her this also.
> Considering she didn't seem to be too interested in whether you were alive or dead (your tests) and refused to talk to you you went ahead and decided to take care of you.
> You do not need her permission, never did and never will. Your discussions with your counsellor are in fact private but if she wants to go to a joint one, you will. But you are not going to beg, plead, etc with her, you have no control over what she chooses to do, but that does not mean you are going to wait on her.


Thanks all for the posts and I told her exactly as I wrote it. I think you are collectively right in her negative reaction was due to the surprise or shock of it (totally out of character for me), the loss of control, and the fact that maybe she feels like **** as she has done nothing to address her issues and I, once again, made her feel bad. You see, she NEVER admits that she is wrong or says she is sorry. Ever. My kids get on her about that as well. Through this whole thing lately I have been taking the path that when she is at her worst I am at my best. Hence, as she is somewhat incapacitated lately, even though she gave me **** yesterday, I had partially prepared breakfast for her when she got back from the gym as she needs help with some things. Just the right thing to do. 

I think she is just feeling really bad about her own actions, or lack there of, and the wall is starting to crumble. We have really decent conversations now without jabbing one another and my daughters are closer to me then ever. She is really starting to see what I am, I believe, and starting to feel bad about her own actions and coldness. It is hard to say here without "outting" me too much, but, a lot has happened in our community lately with regards to firefighting and recognition on my part. Her reaction was what do I get for having to deal with it (almost quote un quote) instead of hey, I am proud of you. I don't think she wants to admit that she does have it really...really good...and when everyone else says you are so lucky on so many fronts it is hard to not point the finger inward.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Thinking of my MIL who gets very angry when her adult children have sought out counseling, it is because she fears that things will be said that go against the false image of what she tries to project. A risk of saying something they are not supposed to say. That some truths will come to the surface that she does not want to hear or deal with. That the counselor has no incentive to portray her in a good light. 

Losing control of the story.

I get highly suspicious of people who are above saying sorry or acknowledging fault. It usually signals a lot of inner conflict and these people are often highly defensive to real or perceived criticism. When you say 'counseling' she hears 'abandonment'. 



> I had asked her if she wanted to go for joint counseling a while back or get a book and practice some exercises...nope...she wasn't ready. I don't get it...frustrated....


Because that would mean admitting she is less than...very painful for some people.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

peacem said:


> Thinking of my MIL who gets very angry when her adult children have sought out counseling, it is because she fears that things will be said that go against the false image of what she tries to project. A risk of saying something they are not supposed to say. That some truths will come to the surface that she does not want to hear or deal with. That the counselor has no incentive to portray her in a good light.
> 
> Losing control of the story.
> 
> ...


Totally right with the last sentence. Any criticism is taken badly...even if I say I am kidding or joking and it is totally clear that I am.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

"and I, once again, made her feel bad."

I pulled this one line out of your last post because when I read your first post that's exactly why I thought she got pissed at the counseling issue. I didn't see it as her getting upset you went to counseling but the way you delivered the news, my first thought when I read your post was you were saving the news for just the right moment when you could get the most shock and awe out of it. I just thought your delivery was kind of flippant and condescending as in…no big deal but just another thing that proves I am better than you. 

So why poke the bear? I don't believe for a second you thought it was "no big deal", my first impression was you were throwing fuel on the fire. The entire scenario and argument seems silly and petty to me.


""Any criticism is taken badly...even if I say I am kidding or joking and it is totally clear that I am""

Here's another example of poking the bear…when is criticism every a joke? Especially when the relationship is filled with tension, I just don't get it.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

tailrider3 said:


> Thanks all for the posts and I told her exactly as I wrote it. I think you are collectively right in her negative reaction was due to the surprise or shock of it (totally out of character for me), the loss of control, and the fact that maybe she feels like **** as she has done nothing to address her issues and I, once again, made her feel bad. You see, she NEVER admits that she is wrong or says she is sorry. Ever. My kids get on her about that as well. Through this whole thing lately I have been taking the path that when she is at her worst I am at my best. Hence, as she is somewhat incapacitated lately, even though she gave me **** yesterday, I had partially prepared breakfast for her when she got back from the gym as she needs help with some things. Just the right thing to do.
> 
> I think she is just feeling really bad about her own actions, or lack there of, and the wall is starting to crumble. We have really decent conversations now without jabbing one another and my daughters are closer to me then ever. She is really starting to see what I am, I believe, and starting to feel bad about her own actions and coldness. It is hard to say here without "outting" me too much, but, a lot has happened in our community lately with regards to firefighting and recognition on my part. Her reaction was what do I get for having to deal with it (almost quote un quote) instead of hey, I am proud of you. I don't think she wants to admit that she does have it really...really good...and when everyone else says you are so lucky on so many fronts it is hard to not point the finger inward.


I don't recommend ignoring her or treating her like she's inherently bad. People act out of impulses. There is the conscious self and the unconscious self. The two don't always do a great job of keeping each other informed.

You really aren't going to get points from others for your self-development. Instead, view your self-development as a gift to others. Part of that is realizing that others might actually dislike the changes you have made. If your self-development goes well, you can still be there to manage the relationships of less than gracious friends/family/her. Likely, all you need to do is speak to her in an emotionally intelligent way. Get her unconscious and conscious selves to mesh and then help inform her. After that, it is up to her to accept everything. A main focus of emotional intelligence is managing social relationships. Are we emotionally intelligent if we just write off everyone that gives a hint of negativity?

Just a tip:

Others can be very used to getting a rise out of you. Perhaps you received anger from her and responded in kind in the past. If that same reaction doesn't come, it will be a great shock to her. Relationships mesh by matching emotional levels (intensity). If she is hot and bothered, while you are Mr. Buddha, there will be a fundamental disconnect that leads to tension/friction. That is where the relational management comes in. Those that attack others are victims themselves. That fact is rarely admitted, but it is nevertheless a fact. See what's bothering her and let her put it on the table without judgment/refusal.

Also, there is no such thing as "making" someone feel bad. I can call a woman beautiful and she could take it positively or negatively. The "make" part is on the receiving end. There are commonly held negative associations, and we generally try to avoid them. If it comes down to having to tip-toe then the problem is not on your end. Again....... relational management. It is vastly important that you don't see it the way you wrote it when you are in the thick. Analyze what you've done objectively and see if there is any reason for you to feel guilty. Either way, lend a hand if possible.

:wink2:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tail,

Its unkind to 'kid/joke' with someone who takes things badly. 







tailrider3 said:


> Totally right with the last sentence. Any criticism is taken badly...even if I say I am kidding or joking and it is totally clear that I am.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tailrider3 said:


> a lot has happened in our community lately with regards to firefighting and recognition on my part. Her reaction was what do I get for having to deal with it (almost quote un quote) instead of hey, I am proud of you. I don't think she wants to admit that she does have it really...really good...and when everyone else says you are so lucky on so many fronts it is hard to not point the finger inward.


I found some good articles on how to 'work with' a selfish spouse. These might help shore up what you're learning here:
Ways To Deal With A Selfish Wife - Boldsky.com

How to Cope With a Selfish Spouse - Marriage

Dealing with a defensive spouse | KSL.com

Selfishness in Couples: Narcissism, Lack of Interpersonal Skills, or Something Else? | Psych Central - Part 2


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Thanks for the comments. I think a lot has to do with the delivery as I mentioned this is the context of something else which has raised some red flags on my end. I am going to deal with it though in due time. I rarely play games about things and tend to be very direct but when I do...am like a spider...weave the web....wait... 

But last night was a typical example of what I was saying though about common courtesy. She got loaded and broke a glass jar in the kitchen. Shards of glass all over the tile floor and she was in bare feet, me too, and still incapacitated from surgery so needs help anyways (which she refuses most times from everyone). As she was loaded, and about to go to bed, she got pissed and was going to clean it up half assed: which if I did she would have FLIPPED. So I said hold on, got on my knees, and started to clean it up with her (moving objects on floor...furniture...etc...). Then she starts growling, grumbling, a few directed at me as I was in her way as she was now trying to vacuum. So as she goes to bed I call her out and say I know you are in pain but I was trying to help you and you didn't even say thank you...just growling at people. Then she says that she didn't growl and whatever she sucks and throws her hands in the air. Typical. No sorry...guess my level of expectations regarding respect are too high but I always say please and thanks for most everything. 

And to note, I kept my temper in check as before I would have blown up while we were cleaning up about the tude I was getting and called out that I was helping her and didn't need that BS. I don't take **** from people unless I absolutely have to. 

This is all going to kill my liver...JD and I were hanging hard yesterday...lol


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So both of you spend a lot of time getting incapacitated?


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Lol...


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Many years ago, I had scheduled a counseling session for myself. I did not tell my husband about it. I did it during work hours and as far as he knew, I was at work. During my session, my counselor thought that it'd be a good idea for me to tell my husband about the counseling and to invite him the next time. The counseling was about his drinking and my general unhappiness in the marriage. 

That night I went home and told him about the session. Nothing in detail; I just told him that I sought out some help and the counselor suggested that he come along too. I really thought that he would be receptive to this. My counselor gave me courage and hope that he would. Boy, was I wrong. He exploded, packed up a bag, and left! I was floored. I still, to this day, do not understand the reason behind that reaction. I never would have guessed it. He came home that same night and just said that he wanted to work on it but would not attend counseling with me. Things just got rug swept, probably much to his delight. Years down the road, he ultimately ended up apologizing for doing what he did. But I tell you, it really made me fearful of getting counseling in the future.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I just don't understand the adverse reaction to counseling.

My wife refused to go to marriage counseling until we were on the verge of divorce. Her position was that you don't talk about problems outside the house, not to professionals, family or friends. Yet she insisted that I go to individual counseling.

But here's the thing and a caution to tailrider3. When I got home from individual counseling I shared the discussion with my wife. She was furious that I told the counselor what our issues had been and that I was blaming her behind her back (exactly NOT what had happened). Since then I learned that what is said in counseling stays in that room.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

turnera said:


> So both of you spend a lot of time getting incapacitated?





tailrider3 said:


> Lol...


And Turnera's question was funny why? 

The only way to get help is to be 100% honest and that includes self evaluation. Drinking to escape is a big issue that solves nothing.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Chris Taylor said:


> I just don't understand the adverse reaction to counseling.
> 
> My wife refused to go to marriage counseling until we were on the verge of divorce. Her position was that you don't talk about problems outside the house, not to professionals, family or friends. Yet she insisted that I go to individual counseling.
> 
> But here's the thing and a caution to tailrider3. When I got home from individual counseling I shared the discussion with my wife. She was furious that I told the counselor what our issues had been and that I was blaming her behind her back (exactly NOT what had happened). Since then I learned that what is said in counseling stays in that room.


Yeah. I don't discuss anything and in truth I don't bash her even before this. You ask anyone and I would always say my wife is awesome and I am really luck to have her; which is totally true. I think the negative reaction to counseling comes from what you mention above, about sharing information, but also the fact that they are 1) upset that you are making yourself better and ruining their "story"...i.e. how can they be so mad at you if are really trying to help yourself and be better... and in turn 2) they reflect on their own issues and how they are acting poorly if they are not helping themselves in any way (books, counseling, wed community, etc...) and they are now the "bad guy" because they are also not working on the relationship. 

As far as drinking...alcohol is proof that God wants us to be happy...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

tailrider3 said:


> Just told my wife that she will see in the next bill a charge for my counseling/coaching. She flipped.
> 
> ...
> 
> Thoughts my friends?


I don't necessarily find any malice in the fact that she is upset about your counseling. Most like a combination of two things:

1) I am your wife and you feel like you can no longer ask me for help.
2) For a period of time you chose to hide this from me so that I could not prevent you from getting help elsewhere.

Now you have to admit, if your wife came to you and confronted you with that scenario, that you would likely flip too. I would flip out if my wife did that to me. 

Then if you stop for a moment and realize that your partner is simply helping themselves for the overall benefit of themselves and the marriage, AND you can start seeing the results.... everyone will calm down and then ask, "well what have you learned?"

Just give it some time!

Badsanta


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Many years ago, I had scheduled a counseling session for myself. I did not tell my husband about it. I did it during work hours and as far as he knew, I was at work. During my session, my counselor thought that it'd be a good idea for me to tell my husband about the counseling and to invite him the next time. The counseling was about his drinking and my general unhappiness in the marriage.
> 
> That night I went home and told him about the session. Nothing in detail; I just told him that I sought out some help and the counselor suggested that he come along too. I really thought that he would be receptive to this. My counselor gave me courage and hope that he would. Boy, was I wrong. *He exploded, packed up a bag, and left! I was floored. I still, to this day, do not understand the reason behind that reaction. I never would have guessed it.* He came home that same night and just said that he wanted to work on it but would not attend counseling with me. Things just got rug swept, probably much to his delight. Years down the road, he ultimately ended up apologizing for doing what he did. But I tell you, it really made me fearful of getting counseling in the future.


I would bet money on him feeling you were about to abandon him. That the counselor was about to expose his faults and you would leave him on the back of it. He leaves you before you leave him - its a weird defense mechanism but very common. He came back fairly quickly - this is all he needed to do to get back in the control seat. He wanted to give you a taste of your own medicine - abandonment.


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