# Think I'm a Narcissist



## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

It's been a while. 

I was on here about a decade ago, trying desperately to save my then-marriage. Some folks on here suggested that my ex had borderline personality disorder. That started me on a quest of discovery that eventually led to my divorce.

But full disclosure: I'm not the good guy here.

My ex is a true piece of work. But I think I'm worse.

I went to another website for partners of borderlines. I ended up - completely by accident - connecting with someone there and feeling an attraction. I never acted on it overtly, but it was a one-way emotional affair. I ended up asking my ex for a divorce, because I was tired of her antics. But honestly, this one-way emotional affair might have had more to do with my divorce than I wanted to admit at the time.

Fast-forward about 4 years. By now, I've had a couple of rebound relationships, all with bad endings. I can pretty much take full responsibility for those failures. I didn't even know at the time what I didn't know about relationships.

My son, aged 6 at the time, got mad at me one night and threatened to throw himself off my balcony. I promptly took him to the hospital. Now (at age 12), he'll readily admit he was just trying to manipulate me. But I took him to the hospital and they recommended a psychiatrist who prescribed him Respiridone.

That stuff messed him up. He became obese. Wet the bed all the time. Developed "man boobs." His behavior became erratic.

In the middle of all these issues with my son, I met the person who is currently my wife. We hit it off right away. She was concerned about my son's issues, but we were in love. Got married three years ago.

In the meantime, my ex accused the two of us of having sex in front of our son, and other types of abuse. After an investigation by Children's Services, we were exonerated. The social worker said the report my ex made was "an inappropriate use of resources." The investigation put a severe strain on our dating relationship, but we persevered.

At the time, I had about $25,000 in debt. Compared to my earning potential, that's about 30% of a year's salary for me. Completely manageable.

After the Children's Services incident, the girlfriend / now wife and I decided I needed to fight for custody. Between his mother continually upping the dosage of Respiridone and the false allegations, we felt like she was warping my son. 

The ensuing legal battle was epic. I ended up spending close to $100,000 in legal fees. On top of that, I had a change of jobs that promised more pay down the road, but caused about a $20,000 per year decrease in my pay the first year. While undergoing the legal battle.

There were motions, Counter-motions. Modifications to the parenting plan. At one point, the court appointed a Parenting Coordinator, which my ex mostly ignored or antagonized. Problem was, because I have a relatively high income, I was paying 75% of the Parenting Coordinator's fees. More expense. It almost bankrupted us. The Parenting Coordinator actually ordered my ex to get psychological testing to find out why she was so difficult. My ex not only ignored this order, she took the Parenting Coordinator to court.

In the middle of all this, my wife and I decided to marry. At the time, I was so overwhelmed with the legal battles that I didn't sit down and tally up how much I owed. I was literally just opening bills at the time, making the minimum payment, and moving on. 

I say all that because that was my excuse at the time. I told myself it would be OK. That I could handle it. The truth was, I was afraid to tally up my debt and tell my future spouse because I was afraid she'd bail.

4 months into our marriage, it all hit the fan. The full scope of my massive legal debts (and some other debts from stupid investment decisions I'd made) became clear. We almost split up then, but she forgave me and we agreed to tackle this as a team.

I've been guilty of keeping secrets from her. We got an $8,000 bill from the Parenting Coordinator, and I didn't tell her about it until a couple of months after we got it. I told myself at the time I was only waiting until the right time to tell her, but I was just being a coward and trying to avoid her emotional reaction.

Our credit is now shot. We're working with an attorney to renegotiate our debts. We have a plan to pay off our debtors, but it's going to take about 4 years.

In the meantime, we finally got custody of my son. Started weaning him off the Respiridone (with a doctor's supervision). The fist few months of the weaning process were not easy. My son's brain was being fried daily by this dangerous ****, and his behavior became even more erratic. My wife finally kicked my son and me out because of the behavioral issues. We moved into an apartment across town, and I spent the next several months setting boundaries with my son and actually being the dad I always wanted to be.

My wife and I reconciled and we moved back under one roof in December.

My son is doing great now. He's completely off the medication. He lost 30 pounds. His behavior is normal for a 12-year old boy. He's made the Honor Roll in school every quarter this year. He's an amazingly resilient kid.

My son was on his Spring Break visit with his mother in another state when all this Covid-19 stuff hit. Instead of spending a week with her, it's become 6 weeks. Because of the need to online school, he's had to do learning from her home. It's an idea I'm uncomfortable with because she's not a good influence on him, but with all the travel restrictions in place, I wasn't sure what else to do.

Last week, my wife and I had a legitimate misunderstanding about spending some our "stimulus" money. I wanted to take money from savings to make a particular purchase, and I thought that's what she wanted as well. Turns out, she thought we were waiting until the stimulus check cleared before we made the purchase. In the end, it was only a difference of about 24 hours, but she felt I had deceived her. Given our history, I can understand that.

She's also angry that I asked my ex to provide help and computer access for our son to do his online schooling until we can retrieve him. My ex screwed around when she was trying to "homeschool" him, and my son was a couple of years behind when we got full custody. (He's rapidly made up the lost ground).

I felt that since the classes he needs are all online and being proctored by our local public school, it was OK to ask for her help. Plus, I wasn't sure I had any other options. This Covid-19 thing has so many of us literally making stuff up on the fly. I thought I was doing the best I could at the time.

And that's the rub. I can always justify my stupid decisions on some outside force. "I'm only in debt because I'm a victim of the legal system and I can't seem to catch a break!"

"I'm 50 pounds overweight because I travel a lot for work and I can't eat healthy on the road!" (I have lost 27 pounds since June of last year, but it's still not enough)

"I was waiting for the next big paycheck to mention the Parenting Coordinator bill....."

"I figured if the school was running the show, why would it hurt if my ex was involved in the online schooling?"

You know what? It's all ********.

I am the king of excuses. I've got an excuse for every selfish thing I do.

Today, my wife called me a narcissist.

I think she's right.

I wanted to marry her so badly, I denied the truth to myself (and HER) about the state of our finances. I just put blinders on myself, so I wouldn't have to deal with the pain of possibly losing her over the financial mess.

I asked my ex to help out because my wife and I were secretly enjoying a little empty-nest time. I should have gotten my son back, and damn the stay-at-home orders. Two weeks ago, I was literally losing sleep worrying about having him travel in the middle of this pandemic. But it was also more convenient for me personally to not have to go get him across three states.

My wife called me a narcissist and said she no longer considers us as husband and wife. We're only roommates. I'm only a paycheck. She says she's moving into the guest room for the foreseeable future. Then she promptly went to her sister's to spend the night tonight.

And she's right. Damn it, she's right.

I've sought counseling for my issues. But counseling only helps if you're completely honest. I'm honest to a degree, but I know how to sound convincing to counselors.

I've joined support groups for Codependents. Again, those only work if you work the steps.

We do have a gameplan going for recovering our finances. And after several fits and starts, I'm finally addressing my potential health issues by losing weight.

I've admitted my guilt in the past, and promised to change. I've even made real progress in being more transparent, and in tackling our debt problems. But then I'll screw up and, as my wife said this week "You can only sustain your mask for about 2 to 4 months."

I've been putting bandaids on a gaping wound. 

I'm a freaking narcissist. I spend more time thinking about my own wounded feelings than the feelings of others. In fact, I probably spend more time worrying about what others think of me as dad than I do in actually BEING a good dad. I worry about people seeing me and my wife a good couple, but I don't behave in ways that help our relationship thrive.

I think I'm a narcissist.

I want to change. I've prayed and begged God to change.

But I'm an emotional black hole. If anyone gets close to me, I suck them in and destroy them.

My wife has finally had enough. She unloaded all her frustrations on me today. The way I hid our financial difficulties from her at first. The fact that she feels she's given up her life for my son. 

I have never cheated on her, but I sometime feel a temptation to view porn. I put filters on our home internet, I set my iPhone for the most restrictive content blocking, and I turn off Netflix series that become provocative or have nudity. She told me today I had a problem letting my **** lead me around. She said none of those filters would be necessary if I weren't so screwed up in my views about sex.

I'm friends on Facebook with a guy who's in a local hip-hop group. I genuinely like the guy. He's a partially disabled veteran, and I have talked to him sometimes until 4 AM just to help him deal with his insomnia. But he also hangs out with some hip-hop type women. Sometimes, I've cross-linked to their pages because - well, they're hot. I never have contacted them or anything like that, but I will sometimes go on their Facebook feeds out of "curiosity." What a crock of ****. I'm sometimes weak and find myself going places online I shouldn't. Again, I never contact them or do anything like that. But the fact that I'm out there creepin' on somebody's Facebook profile disgusts me. That's not who I want to be.

Is there any hope I can change?

I want to be empathetic. I want to care about my family more than I care about myself.

I think I'm permanently and pathetically broken.

My wife deserves better. My son deserves better.

Ugghhhhhh!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Boy are you beating yourself up. I don't see anything in your post that indicates that you are a narcissist. Most of use put ourselves first. If we don't, who will. 

You and your wife need to go to marriage counseling and learn how to discuss things, how to listen to each other, how to negotiate with each other, and how to fight in a way that improves things. This is all rather normal martial issues.

You also need to go get your son. If you fought for full custody, the it holds that she should not have him with her for very long. She can use this in court to argue that there is no reason for her not to have at least 50% custody. After all you trusted her to have him all this time. You worked hard to help you son get to a good place. 

You and your wife have been through a lot with the custody battle and your son's issues. Of course you two are having problems. Anyone would after all that.

I have step children. I know how difficult this sort of parenting can be. My step children's father had 100% custody. But their mother did her best to cause problems for years. 

Do you see yourself in this? Of course not.

In Greek mythology, Narcissus was a hunter from Thespiae in Boeotia who was known for his beauty. According to Tzetzes, he was a Laconian hunter who loved everything beautiful. Narcissus was proud, in that he disdained those who loved him, causing some to take their own life to prove their devotion to his striking beauty. Narcissus is the origin of the term narcissism, a fixation with *oneself and one's physical appearance or public perception.*


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

My state will be dropping its stay-home orders on May 1. I’ll be bringing my son back home May 2. 

Wife came back home early this morning and we had a pretty good day together, considering. Got a lot of work done around the house. She seems genuinely engaged, helped me with a couple of projects, asked my opinion and sincerely listened to it. 

Had a few moments to discuss - in a calmer manner - some of our issues. Not in-depth, but we’re at least started tackling the elephant in the room. When I mentioned that I knew I had a tendency to make excuses when I should just man up and Take responsibility, she piped up that she does, too. She said “We’re all narcissists sometimes. “

We’re still in separate rooms tonight, but it seemed hopeful that she’s once again starting to think of us as a team, and including herself in the “sometimes narcissist” label. I’m not saying she is a narcissist, but it was an opening where she seemed to be saying to me, “ Look, you and I aren’t that different and I’m identifying with your struggles. “

At least that’s how I took it. 

Tonight when she went to the guest room, she did make an point to tell me goodnight. I asked her if there was anything I could specifically pray for her about tonight, and she stopped and thought about it for a minute before she said anything. (We’ll often all each other this question). But she was seriously considering what to say; she didn’t dismiss me and she could see the sincerity in my question. 

So a little thawing today. No major breakthroughs, but she seemed to be opening the door a crack. 

We were seeing a counselor last fall. I’ve reached out to this counselor to see when she might start seeing clients again. But with this COVID-19 mess, who knows when counselors can start seeing clients again?

I’m still concerned that I spend way too much time ruminating over my own hurt feelings than I do trying to be empathetic to others. I still feel like the words narcissist might describe me. And I know narcissism is an enduring trait that offers little hope of change. 

And I want to change. I want to be a better person. 


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

For what it's worth, I don't think either of you are narcissists. I think you're two people, who love each other but have been weighed down by multiple sources of horrendous stress, for a long period of time. A custody battle on it's own will strain a marriage. Throw in the fact that your ex is high conflict, the cost of the legal system and your pre existing debts and you my friend have a right **** show on your hands.

Sit your wife down, apologise to her again for not disclosing your financial problems. Tell her that you were frightened of losing her, and that's why you didn't tell her. Tell her that you should have had more faith in her, and your relationship and that you truly understand why she's so upset. Tell her that you know that she needs to see genuine, consistent change on your behalf with regards to honesty before she can trust you completely again. 

You need to give her examples to show that you DO truly understand - the erosion of her trust in you, the worry of how to overcome the debt etc.

Most counsellors are doing online Zoom sessions at the moment, you need to get onto this asap. 

Nothing can change what's happened, it's done. What you need to do now is acknowledge the past and the hurt it caused, and together, commit to a new plan moving forward.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

hurtnohio said:


> We’re still in separate rooms tonight, but it seemed hopeful that she’s once again starting to think of *us as a team*


This is a major problem for you - you don't behave as though you are part of a team. You consistently make unilateral decisions that affect your wife. You slip the yoke and leave your wife to drag the cart by herself. 

That is selfish behavior and needs to stop. You're married so get used to not being able to act like a single person. Or, get a divorce and continue to do everything you want without having to consider anyone in your decisions. Your wife deserves better. Your son deserves better.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

I don’t disagree with any of this. I’ve been selfish in the past. And I want to change. 

I know the only thing that means anything is a consistent change of behavior. 


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

To add to my previous comment:

My wife has my passwords for all my accounts, Facebook, phone, etc. She doesn’t go around snooping on me, but I have an open door policy so she can see what I’m doing. 

Since we’ve committed, together, to pay off our debt (she brought some into the marriage, too), I send her a weekly email updating her on our progress. (We talk frequently in person, too, but I like making a written summary writing once a week). What bills were paid last week, what’s going to post this week, a look ahead to next week. I’ll also discuss any upcoming issues (here’s how I think we should redistribute the budget to pay for the washer than unexpectedly broke, etc. ). 

We both have decent vehicles. Nothing over the top; I have a 10-year old truck, she has a 10-year old Mustang. The Mustang (her pride and joy) got hit by a deer years ago and the body shop cheaped out on paint and now she has some fading on that quarter panel. I’ve started a savings account called the “Mustang repaint fund,” and we’re putting money into as we can so she can get her baby repainted. I do this because I love her and want to give her something nice. In my selfish moments, I also hopes that will prove I’ve changed, by not only getting her car repainted, but also doing it responsibly (saving up for it). 

We both do very well at sharing the housework. We both good cooks, we both love to stay busy, and we both are OK at cleaning. Our house isn’t perfect, but it’s safe, sanitary, and you won’t see us featured on an episode of “hoarders. “ We really do work well together most of the time. 

I think the worries we’ve both had about how my son is fairing with his mom during this unplanned, extended visit, combined with me making a sincere mistake in spending money before we had it, brought back too many memories of my past deceptions. 

(Context on buying the item: We’d both agreed we wanted it and were going to use a portion of the stimulus check to purchase it. We were discussing timing. She said, “Let’s get this now. “ She meant “Lets get this once the stimulus check clears our account. “ I thought she meant “Let’s take money out of savings to get this today, then we’ll pay savings back from our stimulus check once it clears. “ I heard what I wanted to hear. )

So I’m working on changing my behavior. I’m working on trying to right the wrongs I’ve done. 

I just hope I’m doing all these things for the right reasons. I want to remedy my past transgressions. 

But I’m not just fooling myself by doing all this as a “show” am I?

Does a narcissist ever realize they’re a narcissist?


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

hurtnohio said:


> Does a narcissist ever realize they’re a narcissist?


If they do, they would NEVER admit it. This isn’t your issue. 


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Yeah, if you're thinking you might be one, you probably aren't.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I’ve talked fairly extensively to therapists about BPD behaviours, and read a number of books, and I can say that one common theme of Narcissists is they never think they are one.

Plus, BPD people do not select Narcissists as partners. They select low-ego people as partners, because they can be easily manipulated, especially through guilt and shame.

And that’s what’s coming out in spades here - guilt and shame. I doubt you are a narcissist, instead I’d recommend therapy and other mechanisms to reinforce your ego as a strength.

I mean, FFS you fought a years long legal and mental battle over your son, won, and are beating yourself up over how you did it.

One foot in front of the other, and improve gradually over a long period of time. Martyring yourself achieves nothing for anybody, least of all you.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

hurtnohio said:


> It's been a while.
> 
> I was on here about a decade ago, trying desperately to save my then-marriage. Some folks on here suggested that my ex had borderline personality disorder. That started me on a quest of discovery that eventually led to my divorce.
> 
> ...


Youve acknowledged and owned up to your faults.
Now its time to make the changes.

Set short, medium and long term goals for yourself.
Set financial, work, family, moral, attitude, fitness, communication and religous goals.

Start and end each day in prayer and remind yourself of your goals and count your blessings.

Any tempation or thought that goes against your goals stops the second you think it, thats not you anymore and you WONT settle for it. Yes mistakes will happen, identify the cause and learn from it.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Great advice. Thank you for being caring enough to be blunt. 

You’re right. I do set these goals for myself. For example, I’ve deactivated Facebook for the next 30 days. If I find it’s still tempting to use it inappropriately, I might go longer. 

I work to keep my wife updated on our finances. I’m working toward losing weight and running competitively after the carnivorous restrictions are lifted. 

Bottom line: I’m owning my faults and trying to work on them. 

But old habit patterns are hard to break. Sometimes I find myself shading the truth a little here, or lying by omission a little bit there. And the sad thing is, it’s so habitual I don’t even realize I’m doing it at the time. 

Maybe instead of being a narcissist, I’m more likely to be codependent. I do what I can to keep the peace. 

I’m also looking into codependents anonymous meetings. If nothing else, online or phone meetings. 

My wife and son are worth every effort I might make to get mentally healthy. 

But once trust is broken, it’s hard to regain. I don’t befault my wife for sometimes feeling as if I’m betraying her again. The betrayal she felt when she realized our financial mess had to be devastating. 

Even if you love someone, loss of trust is hard to overcome. You might forgive, but the emotional pain is still there. 

I’m aware and grieving for the emotional pain I’ve caused her. I’m hoping that as I consistently work on acting in a more responsible manner, I’ll regain her respect. 

But this isn’t about her feelings towards me; this is about me respecting myself enough to change. If I don’t respect myself and my own words, she’ll never respect me. 

I have much work to do. And on my good days, I’m actually doing OK. But on days when I slip back into old habit patterns, I’m not OK. 


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

hurtnohio said:


> Great advice. Thank you for being caring enough to be blunt.
> 
> You’re right. I do set these goals for myself. For example, I’ve deactivated Facebook for the next 30 days. If I find it’s still tempting to use it inappropriately, I might go longer.
> 
> ...


Trust will come in time and its not really worth worrying about.
At this point its all about your will.

You have identified the problem.
No beating yourself up or dwelling on the hurt is allowed.
The only time her distrust or hurt should enter your mind is to understand her reactions or responses, dont let it eat you.

This is about you, and your motive is being the best man you can be.

Im in the midst of my own trial (see mens clubhouse).
Funny thing is i have more clarity and peace now then i ever had, ive been with my wife since 17yo so i never knew different and became codependent.

You hinted at being religous, for me going from being a pretend Christian to getting real was the turning point, i love my wife more then ever, but shes not number 1 in my life anymore and it feels great. 
Having a strong foundation is key. 
The "trying so hard to be better" turns into simply "being better", no regret, no guilt, just patience, perserverance and love.


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