# can you put a price tag on love?



## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

Hi all, new to this site, would like some solid advice.

I am in my 40's, make around $140k, live in Nevada with no state income tax.

I have fallen in love with a partner who makes around $200k, lives in California. We have been together about ~3 years.

My job is virtual, I can work any where and live any where. My partner's job is based in California and cannot live any where but close to work.

If I were to move to California to be with my partner full time, I would end up paying up to 10% in income taxes, or around ~$14k more out of pocket for the additional taxes, not accounting for higher property taxes, sales taxes, etc.

So a simple relocation for love would cost me around $14k. If I were to marry my partner, we may pay even higher income taxes as we would lose a lot of deductions and credits, and be subject to a higher tax rate due to our combined income being higher.

So question: Is it worth paying ~$14k possibly up to $20k more (in taxes) per year, for love?

The weather will be much nicer, traffic will be worse, more outdoor options. Plus love. Weighing if this is worth the increased cost. Over the next 20+ years of work, it will cost me $140k per decade, or $300k over 20 years... the price of love.

Worth it???


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Probably not, because if you are putting a price tag on love, you probably want to be convinced out of it.


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

Herschel said:


> Probably not, because if you are putting a price tag on love, you probably want to be convinced out of it.


No, I'm not looking to be convinced, just asking for feedback. 

Unfortunately California is the highest taxing state in all of the US... so it's a real issue economically.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

lars2016 said:


> No, I'm not looking to be convinced, just asking for feedback.
> 
> Unfortunately California is the highest taxing state in all of the US... so it's a real issue economically.


I guess. I mean, together you'll be making 340K, which blows away the national average. I feel like I live a good life, but not great and together my wife and I make roughly 150k. And we get our asses taxed.

If 14K isn't work love to you, I don't know what would be. I don't really get the concern at all, unless you have like 3 kids from a marriage and you have to pay child support or you owe the mafia 500K, or you spend all your money on hookers and blow...


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

lars2016 said:


> So question: Is it worth paying ~$14k possibly up to $20k more (in taxes) per year, for love?
> 
> The weather will be much nicer, traffic will be worse, more outdoor options. Plus love. Weighing if this is worth the increased cost. Over the next 20+ years of work, it will cost me $140k per decade, or $300k over 20 years... the price of love.
> 
> Worth it???


Don't you think have a TWO income household would put you in a far better position than a ONE income household?

You're trading a 10% reduction in income for a 50% boost in spending power (ie splitting the bills in half)... I know it's Monday but what am I missing here?!?


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

You live in Nevada so you can put a price on at least the sexual side of it. How many trips to the bunny ranch would it take to eat up $14K? OK, I'm being an @ss and not giving good advice, so ignore that part. I don't have any experience with a partner, but California might be a very welcoming place for your lifestyle so there are non-monetary advantages that you might find very rewarding there too.


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Don't you think have a TWO income household would put you in a far better position than a ONE income household?
> 
> You're trading a 10% reduction in income for a 50% boost in spending power (ie splitting the bills in half)... I know it's Monday but what am I missing here?!?


Hmm good point. It's a long story but I do have to maintain a household in Nevada for certain reasons (I financially support a disabled brother, so I do provide housing for him as long as he lives).


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

Herschel said:


> I guess. I mean, together you'll be making 340K, which blows away the national average. I feel like I live a good life, but not great and together my wife and I make roughly 150k. And we get our asses taxed.
> 
> If 14K isn't work love to you, I don't know what would be. I don't really get the concern at all, unless you have like 3 kids from a marriage and you have to pay child support or you owe the mafia 500K, or you spend all your money on hookers and blow...


Agreed it sounds like a lot... but California is super expensive. The average house prices for a starter home is around $700k where we want to live. Taxes will take away 35% of our income, so we're left with $221k, before the big mortgage costs, gas, property bill (I think annual property tax will be $10k - $15k), and more. So real cash left over each month is not as much as you'd think.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

lars2016 said:


> Agreed it sounds like a lot... but California is super expensive. The average house prices for a starter home is around $700k where we want to live. Taxes will take away 35% of our income, so we're left with $221k, before the big mortgage costs, gas, property bill (I think annual property tax will be $10k - $15k), and more. So real cash left over each month is not as much as you'd think.


Is it just you two? No others living in the house. Your partner already has a place to live right now, right? I hear you about the cost concerns. To me, it would be more about finding a spot we may want to live less in as long as we are together, rather than...whatever the situation is now.


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

Herschel said:


> Is it just you two? No others living in the house. Your partner already has a place to live right now, right? I hear you about the cost concerns. To me, it would be more about finding a spot we may want to live less in as long as we are together, rather than...whatever the situation is now.


Yes my partner has a house but is not interested in staying in it. My partner would rather we buy a place together that appeals to the both of us. My partner bought a house during the run-up in real estate, so there's not much equity in it either unfortunately, but at least it's not under water!!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Have you tried combining your incomes into a joint federal tax return to see what that does to your tax bracket? Odds are you would also take another huge hit there as well. You might find yourself in a much higher tax bracket.

Right now your federal tax bracket is 28%.

Married filing jointly would be 33%

5% of $140,000 is another $7,000 a year you will pay to Uncle Sam just to get married! 

Badsanta


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Is there a price worth paying for happiness, or the pursuit thereof?


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

badsanta said:


> Have you tried combining your incomes into a joint federal tax return to see what that does to your tax bracket? Odds are you would also take another huge hit there as well. You might find yourself in a much higher tax bracket.
> 
> Right now your federal tax bracket is 28%.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's exactly the kind of impact that would hit us hard. Both of us are already starting to feel the sting of Alternative Minimum Tax, which takes away some of the mortgage deductions and other tax deductions that we used to enjoy.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

lars2016 said:


> Hmm good point. It's a long story but I do have to maintain a household in Nevada for certain reasons (I financially support a disabled brother, so I do provide housing for him as long as he lives).


You need to take ALL the information into consideration.

Far as I can tell it's a substantial net gain for you rather than maintaining the status quo.

Higher taxes but also a greatly reduced debt burden.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

lars2016 said:


> Yes, that's exactly the kind of impact that would hit us hard. Both of us are already starting to feel the sting of Alternative Minimum Tax, which takes away some of the mortgage deductions and other tax deductions that we used to enjoy.


You can start an employment agency based in Ireland and hire yourself to work in the US for minimum wage. Meanwhile you can borrow against your company's overseas assets at an interest rate much lower than your local tax rate. You do NOT have to pay income taxes on money you borrow because it is not income. 

Then when Donald Trump becomes president he will set up a scheme so that Businesses in the US can bring all their foreign assets back into the country without having to pay the government anything to repatriate those funds! 

With this scheme, your tax rate is essentially the interest rate at which you can borrow funds. All big companies do this! But you take a gamble on when the next president will do this and create a repatriation tax holiday. It is a waiting game in which all your money may end up locked away overseas for years and years to come.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

badsanta said:


> You can start an employment agency based in Ireland and hire yourself to work in the US for minimum wage. Meanwhile you can borrow against your companies overseas assets at an interest rate much lower than your local tax rate. You do NOT have to pay income taxes on money you borrow because it is not income.
> 
> Then when Donald Trump becomes president he will set up a scheme so that Businesses in the US can bring all their foreign assets back into the country without having to pay the government anything to repatriate those funds!
> 
> ...


LOL :grin2::grin2:>>


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> You need to take ALL the information into consideration.
> 
> Far as I can tell it's a substantial net gain for you rather than maintaining the status quo.
> 
> Higher taxes but also a greatly reduced debt burden.


This is helpful for me to think about, thank you.

It's great to get feedback to make sure I'm not missing anything in my financial analysis, as well as to look at the big picture versus the micro-details.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lars2016 said:


> No, I'm not looking to be convinced, just asking for feedback.
> 
> Unfortunately California is the highest taxing state in all of the US... so it's a real issue economically.


HUH ?

You are not asking to be convinced. That says you are convinced. Someone who is convinced needs no advice.

I have no "needs-no" in my quiver to offer.

Love has no price. Marry this person or jump in the vault like Scrooge McDuck and kiss your gold.

You are a calculating sort. I would recommend to your SO to dump you and look for a person with a Heart and Soul. not a Pacemaker and a "Sou".

I was once an Accounting Major. There is no formula that will work in your "out of balance-sheet".


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

On second thought.

I do analyze everything...down to the brass-gnat.

Live with the SO for less-than six months {on paper}. Maintain your primary residency in Nevada for tax purposes. Sublet it out or whatever but keep it in your name and as your main digs. Read the rules for this in Californification.

You can move to CA, and live with this person [365.5 days] and none would be the wiser. 

If you marry and do not reveal this on your tax forms you will be breaking the law and subject to fines or jail for fraud. I suppose you could file separately and still claim Nevada as your primary residence. Do this and expect to be audited.

Write Moonbeam JB a letter and ask for a waiver on your taxes.


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> HUH ?
> 
> ...
> Love has no price..


I think this is the most romantic, idealistic, and also foolish quote that may have existed.

Looking at the financial problems section of this site, it's clear love has a price, for sure.

How many women would marry a handsome, lovely prince who is so broke that he can't even pay for a handkerchief to cry on?

I think the biggest problem with love is to think nothing else matters. For a relationship to last, everything matters. You can't jump in blindly and think everything will work out.

The relationships that work out the best take everything into consideration, and make sure everything is handled as best as possible for both people. That's maturity, and a healthy relationship.

Thank goodness most people on this site have gone through enough in the past to realize that mature love requires more in-depth analysis and thinking, than blindly jumping into long term relationships thinking nothing matters except love.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

badsanta said:


> You can start an employment agency based in Ireland and hire yourself to work in the US for minimum wage. Meanwhile you can borrow against your company's overseas assets at an interest rate much lower than your local tax rate. You do NOT have to pay income taxes on money you borrow because it is not income.
> 
> Then when Donald Trump becomes president he will set up a scheme so that Businesses in the US can bring all their foreign assets back into the country without having to pay the government anything to repatriate those funds!
> 
> ...


Who knew my country is a tax haven! Oh wait not if you're in fact Irish. Most of my income goes to my government but I wouldn't dare let it affect my love life. Money can't help relationship problems. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> Who knew my country is a tax haven! Oh wait not if you're in fact Irish. Most of my income goes to my government but I wouldn't dare let it affect my love life. Money can't help relationship problems.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


I love Ireland!! I've heard it's a tax haven for retirees. :smile2:

Money can't help relationship problems, but money problems can certainly chill a relationship significantly.

It's like the saying "money can't buy happiness, but it can help you avoid unhappiness".


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

lars2016 said:


> I love Ireland!! I've heard it's a tax haven for retirees. :smile2:
> 
> Money can't help relationship problems, but money problems can certainly chill a relationship significantly.
> 
> It's like the saying "money can't buy happiness, but it can help you avoid unhappiness".


And Ireland loves you my friend! Maybe a tax haven for visitors (an apology for our rainy weather) 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I've been quite poor in my life and I've been quite wealthy. Money is nice, but if you have enough for real necessities, it has much less effect than you might think on your happiness. 

A good loving relationship can make all the difference in the world between happiness and misery.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

If you are going to ***** about paying 14K/year more taxes to be with someone you really care about then you might as well not bother. Stay where you are, be miserable and enjoy the extra 14K.

To me it's a nobrainer, move to CA!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Just hire a decent accountant.

Tell them what you want to pay in tax and they will try to match your demand for zero tax to something the tax authorities will be comfortable with, if not happy with.


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> If you are going to ***** about paying 14K/year more taxes to be with someone you really care about then you might as well not bother. Stay where you are, be miserable and enjoy the extra 14K.
> 
> To me it's a nobrainer, move to CA!


Yes that's what I'll end up doing, but wow is it painful to write those checks for $14k (after tax money, even more ouch).


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

I'd like to know if your partner knows that this is your train of thought......you don't sound like you are really in love with this person.


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## lars2016 (Apr 18, 2016)

Betrayedone said:


> I'd like to know if your partner knows that this is your train of thought......you don't sound like you are really in love with this person.


My partner would love to escape the high tax land of Cali if it were possible... unfortunately the job is location based, whereas mine is not.

We do love each other, but there is a financial side to any long term relationship that will affect both partners, and should be considered carefully as well. After all, this is not just going to be my money in the future - it will be our money, that we will both be losing out on.

I think it would be foolish to expect any couple to disregard a potential ~10%+ decrease in income, regardless of how much income they make.

I mean, how many people here could take a 10% reduction in after-tax take home pay, without blinking an eye? I bet everyone would evaluate it carefully.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The underlying assumptions are strange. You need to remember...

- no job is permanent
- there are intangibles to living in California
- better access to many things
- quality of life
- more opportunities

And so on. I've only been to Nevada once and I'm not sure I could stay there for too long.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

badsanta said:


> You can start an employment agency based in Ireland and hire yourself to work in the US for minimum wage. Meanwhile you can borrow against your company's overseas assets at an interest rate much lower than your local tax rate. You do NOT have to pay income taxes on money you borrow because it is not income.
> 
> Then when Donald Trump becomes president he will set up a scheme so that Businesses in the US can bring all their foreign assets back into the country without having to pay the government anything to repatriate those funds!
> 
> ...


Or you could take a holiday in Ireland and use the money then?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

john117 said:


> The underlying assumptions are strange. You need to remember...
> 
> - no job is permanent
> - there are intangibles to living in California
> ...


*Oh goodness, I forgot about sales tax. *Every time I used to do company events in California, I was always freaked out about the local sales tax I had to collect during promotional efforts.

All I can remember thinking to myself is WTF, I guess they are trying to keep it barely under 10%. I often thought to myself that the cost of shipping goods from Miami to Sacramento was CHEAPER than the SALES TAXES that people would pay to buy the same goods on site. I discovered this when I ran out of something that when I had to order the same goods and charge to ship them to someone's house, that the bill was CHEAPER than just selling goods directly at an event that were already there.

Based on how many goods you consume, add in another $3000 to $5000 a year in extra sales taxes you will have to pay.

Badsanta


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Living together is not marriage.
In marriage your assets will be community property. So a marriage is a very different financial equation than cohabitation.
I would also run this through your tax software to see if the deduction for state hits your federal, to know what a true number is.

Anyhow, this is a personal decision.


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