# I screwed up... is there hope?



## Pats20202 (Oct 22, 2012)

I originally posted this in the Reconciliation portion of the website, but I don't know if that is the correct place for it. Seeing as we are almost through with our divorce, I'm reposting it here in the divorce and separation section. I hope it works.

So, my story starts about 5 months ago. My wife and I get into a huge fight. She had a little bit to drink and I was trying to force her to communicate. I never laid a hand on her. We got to arguing and she called the cops. The cops came out and she said I didn't lay a hand on her, but she wanted me gone. The cops said that they couldn't force me to go, but I agreed because my wife is my world and whatever she wants I will give her. 

So, I move out for a short time. I come back to watch our son while she goes to work. We don't talk. I'm trying to give it time. She needs to cool off. About 5 weeks after I had moved out I asked her what her plans were. She said that she hired an attorney and filed for divorce. 

Well, there went my life. I realize that you can't force a woman to do anything so I make plans to help support her and find a way to keep the house so no one ends up homeless. After we got married I added her name onto the property. I get a home equity line of credit to help pay for everything. But in order to do that I need her to sign her name off of the property. She wasn't going to make anything off of the property in the divorce because the property was worth less now then when we got married and I added her name onto it. And we owed more on the house now than we did when we first got married. I figured if she was serious about the divorce she would want to be gone. Well, she blows up at me... Calls me a ****tard and all. Then a week later she asks for money so she can get an apartment. 

So as our story continues, she moves out and I start rebuilding my life in my house. Things are going good... Except for the fact that my house is empty because my wife isn't in it any longer. I get my son on weekends and spend as much time as I can with him. My wife and I still barely talk. I go out and spend time with friends. But I'm not dating. While I'm married I am going to act married. 

A good friend of mine, who has been married for 25 years and with his wife for 32, hears the story and tells me I'm the smartest idiot that he knows. He tells me about my trust issues. He tells me I'm an idiot for forcing communication with a drunk person, and he tells me that I need to back off. 

So, I get back into counseling. It's a male counselor and we are talking. I told him everything that was going on between us and he starts getting down on her. He tells me that I'm better off without her and she may have some mental abnormality. He tells me that she isnt done with me, but she has gone too far down the road to divorce and she doesnt know how to make it back. But he tells me that i am better off without her and i should move on. I see him for a while and he helps me get my head straightened out somewhat. But when I get my head straightened out I realize I don't want to spend the rest of my life without her. I decide I can't fix us without fixing me. I know I'm not perfect, so I start working on me. I have my issues that I need to work on. I finally switched counselor a and started seeing a female counselor that specializes in clients in my profession. It's not about her, it's not about us, it's about working on me. 

Now back to us, I text her every now and again and she keeps the responses short and to the point. She is cutting back communication a lot. We see each other once a week for five minutes and she barely responds to me at other times. I know I can't force her into seeing how I'm working on myself, but I don't know how else she will see it. She recently at me over email because I did some calculations wrong for the divorce. I talked to my attorney and she said that my wife was right. Well, I'm a big enough man to admit that I'm wrong so I go back and fix the calculations and tell her she is going to get money, not owe me money. 

Now, here is the thing. Our problems started about a year and a half ago. She had three good friends. Two women and one man. I think you all can see where this is going. But not quite. It turns out she had been telling her female friends everything I had done wrong for the last 4 years or so, but rarely how I've made it right. Her best friend has never been married, never been proposed to, but has been in plenty of relationships. My wife said her problem is she is too controlling in her relationships and she drives the weak ones away and the strong ones leave on their own. Her other friend has kept getting into relationships with guys that cheated on her. In fact, she moved half way across the country to meet a guy and he started cheating on her a week after they got married. So, you have these two man hating women that are telling my wife to leave me. 

Enter the guy. I knew of him, and I wasn't a big fan of him. Well, my wife started talking to him. And she hid it from me. That brought out my paranoia. I kept thinking if there was nothing to hide, why hide it. Well, she is talking to him and joins his bowling team. She asked my permission first and I told her it was okay. So they see each other once a week. My mind is going haywire, but I put on a semi cool front because she is coming home to me. Then I start causing problems. She tells me she is going to quit bowling and I tell her not to. But I can't get over myself. So I decide I need to clear my head. I decide to separate from her. I fill out the paperwork to legally separate, but I can't do it. So I put the paperwork in the shredding pile, but forgot to shred it and she found it. My bad there. 

Well, I start talking to people that I know that knows this other guy. They say not to worry. He isn't a player. He doesn't cheat on his wife, ever. He may flirt a little, but he views people as people he needs to take care of. So I back off. I tell her it's okay if she talks to him. She tells me she won't talk to him anymore. I don't know when she stopped talking, but it was right about the time that she got her current job. She tells me I screwed up because her friends have been telling her to leave me, but he was telling her to relax, work on your marriage and things will work out.

Well, she gets her new job and I'm thinking that she has someone to focus her energy on and she will be a contributing member of the household, so she will feel better about herself. She tried for a while to get a job and doors kept getting shut in her face. I know that has to beat on your self worth so she should be feeling better. 
But after about 6 weeks of training is when she kicks me out. 

So now my paranoia is running wild. I find only one of his business cards and it is wedged under the bed near her vibrator, like she was hiding it. All the other business cards from her job are in plain view on her dresser. Why hide it? She asks me to do a tune up on my truck she is using and she drops it off. She tells me she has to help her boss set up for the company picnic the next day, but she drops off the truck and walks down the street and around the corner to her boss (who she didn't want me to see) and ended up using my credit card at an amusement park. Her dad has a party at his house and tells me by accident that she brought her boss. Although he called him her "friend". She gives me my truck back and I found a receipt for a couple steaks and salmon patties in the truck purchased right before the labor day weekend, yet when I asked her if she wanted to go out to dinner that weekend she said she couldn't because she was busy. I had our son and her other son was at his dads house all weekend. Now, is she dating her boss? Who knows. I don't think she is willing to jeopardize her new career by openly dating her new boss, and I figured most companies would transfer an employee if they are in a relationship with a supervisor. I figure she just found a willing ear to listen to her and occupy some of her time. This is just as hard of a time for me as it is for her. And the last time she was talking to someone behind my back it was to help her marriage out. Or maybe not. Maybe she is dating him. Maybe the other guy stopped talking to her because she said she was going to start seeing someone else. Regardless of all of that, she isn't with me anymore. She is separated and close to being divorced, she is free to date if she wants to. I don't own her. And I need to stop worrying about what she is doing. If she wanted to be with me she would be with me. And if she wanted me to know she would tell me, I need to stop prying.

But there are mixed messages. She sent me some pretty spiteful text messages and told me that there was no hope for us getting back together. But then a week ago she sends me a text message saying that sometimes she misses her life before the separation. She is talking about moving out of the state for work, but is also talking about going back to school. Which would be extremely difficult with a new job, two kids, and not having any support. I told her today that I know I violated her trust and I was willing to work to regain it because I wanted her back. I asked her if it was possible and she said she would see. I don't know if she is serious or just leading me on. 

So about me... My buddies say when we go to a bar I'm one of the best looking guys there. I'm in great shape. I have a good job and I make good money. I'm funny and my friends say that when I walk into the room I'm one of the smartest ones there. I'm hard working. I'm faithful. I've had women hit on me even with the wedding ring on but I don't go there. And even though I don't try I'm having women ask me out when they find out I'm separated. I'm caring and I always thought that I was trying to do nice things for her. I tried to treat her son like he was my own. But I have my issues. Her dad is a recovering alcoholic and I've called in sick from work on multiple occasions to take him to meetings or take him to get medicine or just spend time with him and listen to him talk through his problems. I've gone to al-anon meetings and watched his other son while he is sleeping it off. I've recently come to the realization that I've been controlling in our relationship. Even though I was doing it for our financial security, when she wanted to start building her credit I told her no. I ignored her feelings to the point that when I started sharing my feeling she said she didn't care because hers had been stomped on for so long. I smothered her and didn't give her her own personal space. I went into her phone behind her back. I didn't listen to her when she had ideas for our house and our life, and basically ignored her. I was constantly wanting sex, irregardless of how she was feeling and what her mood was. We used to on special occasions watch porn together, but I would push it to far be turning it on more than she wanted. I would pressure her for oral sex. When she turned me down for sex I would go into the other room, and watch some porn and take care of myself. Although she would watch porn and take care of herself too, I learned that when women masturbate, it is to increase their sex drive. I have an ex wife that is constantly interfering in our lives and trying to dominate our house, and I wouldn't put my foot down because I was trying to be the better person. She has told me that she feels more like an object than a person. I would get moody when I didn't get my way and shut down and not communicate with her. And I have other issues. I don't feel like I'm worthy of a relationship and that I'm not worthy of love. I use sex to feel like I'm loved. I know... How very Christian Grey of me. 

So, I know this has been a very long post. But if you have had the tenacity to read through it, maybe you can give me some advice. Our marriage is a month away from being over, but I love her. This space between us has made me realize how screwed up I have been and how I've taken her for granted. How can I show her I've changed? Is there any hope for this marriage? Am I wasting my time? Is there hope?

I would love any advice... Especially from a woman.

Thank you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Why do you want advice from a woman?

Letting your woman think for your is where your problems begin.

Sounds like you've tried the same thing in both marriages, and it's not working.


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## Pats20202 (Oct 22, 2012)

I was looking for advice from a woman to see if there was any hope. 

I never felt like I owned her, even though that is how she told me she felt. 

I don't think letting her think was a bad thing. 

And my first marriage is a long story, but the bottom line is this, I never loved my first wife.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Read this today.

I'll bet you see yourself.

This from a veteran of 2 marriages with many of the symptoms you describe.


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## Pats20202 (Oct 22, 2012)

I've been reading it. A lot of it does apply to me and some of it applies to her so I've had to read it in bits and chunks to be able to digest it.


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## KNIFE IN THE HEART (Oct 20, 2011)

Pats,

You can get advice from a woman but it may be irrelevant because we don't know your wife. Is there hope? If both parties made a sincere effort to work on the relationship and are willing to let the past go, then there is hope. I don't think this fits in your case though.

You want her to see how you have changed - I don't think she will see the change. It sounds like her mind is made up about you. I doesn't matter what you've done, she will be blind to it.

So, instead of focusing on her, focus on you. Continue growing and learning and becoming a better you. I'm not a big fan of going to bars or meeting people at bars, mostly because of the drinking, which can create problems. Why not take up a hobby and meet people that way? Join a group on meetup.com. Take care of yourself. Speaking with a life coach might be helpful. He can teach you to communicate more effectively so that your next relationship will be better. He can help you discover what you want out of life and how to get there. 

I know it's tough. I'm going through it myself. But I started feeling better when I took the focus off him and put it on me. I hope this will work for you too!


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

The thing about Christian Grey is that there are many levels to him and he is always willing to try to change.

I think you should do the 180 to the best of our ability. You need to work on you. Focus on you and your son.

I am a sucker for happy endings and I would like to think that there is hope. Only the main upstairs knows.


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## Pats20202 (Oct 22, 2012)

Knife in the heart, you're right, only she knows herself. 

And lee, your right too. Only the man upstairs knows for certain. But my time in the corps taught me to never give up. So I'm going to keep trying. 

I've been trying the 180, but I've had a couple of slip ups, but I'm still trying. Here is the question I have, do I date? I've been asked out, but the thought of being in another relationship makes my stomach turn a little. It would only be for companionship because sex would just seem hollow right now. I've never been unfaithful. The 180 never addressed that. Anyone have any advice on that?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pats20202 said:


> Knife in the heart, you're right, only she knows herself.
> 
> And lee, your right too. Only the man upstairs knows for certain. But my time in the corps taught me to never give up. So I'm going to keep trying.
> 
> I've been trying the 180, but I've had a couple of slip ups, but I'm still trying. Here is the question I have, do I date? I've been asked out, but the thought of being in another relationship makes my stomach turn a little. It would only be for companionship because sex would just seem hollow right now. I've never been unfaithful. The 180 never addressed that. Anyone have any advice on that?


Go ahead and take them out.

Just put a boundary on physical intimacy - and let them know that up front.

Some will accept that and you can have a great time.

Others will move on to the next one.

You're ok either way.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

There was a lot to read, so let's see if I summarized this correctly:

1) Wife became friends with a guy, and she hid this from you.
2) You found out and you were tempted to legally separate, but you ended up not pulling the trigger.
3) Wife finds papers, feels like **** and is upset with you.
3A) Wife cuts out this guy friend who may or may not have been a threat and she harbors resentment against you over this...
4) Wife gets new job and seems to have hit it off with a guy at work (her boss?).
5) Wife kicks you out of the house.
6) Now you are legally separated and it appears that your wife is going to parties with this other guy (her boss?, same guy as in 4?).
7) She uses your credit card to buy expensive items for a party that you were not invited to.
8) She has you fix her truck for her.

If I summarized this correctly, what do you have to feel sorry about? Why do you think your wife is an amazing woman again? From what it looks like to me, she has used you for a long time in this marriage, and you did not fully realize it.


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## Pats20202 (Oct 22, 2012)

Okay, so the dating thing is on the table. I'm only going to do what I feel comfortable with. I can deal with that. 

Plan 9 from OS
You got it partially right. The party was for her grandfather and she didn't use the credit card to purchase anything for it. Her use of the credit card was only to start her new life. There were no extravagant charges. And she is an amazing woman. In a nut shell there isn't enough space on the server to talk about all the great things she has done. With my first marriage, she turned into a controlling spiteful woman. I was glad to be gone from her. With this one I recognize my mistakes and I take responsibility in the failing of the marriage. I only want to make things right. And it was my truck, I was just doing maintenance on it. But for the rest of your points you are correct. I don't feel like she was using me, we have had a lot of give and take in the marriage.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey Pats

I think you said it best "use the time to work on you".

You didn't love your 1st wife.

And your 2nd wife does not love you.

And pal, I have been well off 2x in this lifetime and each time I lost it my wife has never wanted to leave me. Is she happy? Hell no.

Does she still love me, hell yes.

So I hate to say it but even though your not perfect your wife seems to be a user.

Do not be her Plan B.

Improve yourself, get your finances straightened out and find a new girl who will make you happy.

If you have a happy relationship then you will not need the porn......

So go work on you, take care of your kid and tell your STBXW to have a nice life.

There are better woman out there.

HM64


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## Pats20202 (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks happyman64, I posted here to look for advice, and I am taking all the advice to heart. I'm not going to give up while we are still married, but I need to stick to the 180 because it seems to be the only plan for success for someone that doesn't want it to work out. And if it doesn't work out then I already have the building blocks set for the next chapter in my life. 

Too bad my heart and head can't be on the same page.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Pats20202 said:


> Thanks happyman64, I posted here to look for advice, and I am taking all the advice to heart. I'm not going to give up while we are still married, but I need to stick to the 180 because it seems to be the only plan for success for someone that doesn't want it to work out. And if it doesn't work out then I already have the building blocks set for the next chapter in my life.
> 
> Too bad my heart and head can't be on the same page.


Hey Pats,

Do the 180 long enough and your heart and head will be on the same page.

You still love your wife so go for it. And do not give up if you think she is worth it.

I hope you find her. She might be in there somewhere. I will give you a small ray of hope.

I have a good friend that has gone through what you are going through.

She blindsided him. he exposed to her family. His wife ran off with the om numerous times with the om over a period of months. hurt him and his young kids a lot.

The fog slowly lifted. She is back home. They divorced. She cannot leave her family.

She is no longer the person he married. She does not know who she is either.

Sometimes the healing takes years.

Good Luck

HM64


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## Pats20202 (Oct 22, 2012)

happyman64, not to get to much into your friends life, but how long was he married for?

I ask because everyone has heard about the 7 year itch. My counselor stated that it is an actual physiological event. Just curious if it was about the same amount of time...


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Pats20202 said:


> happyman64, not to get to much into your friends life, but how long was he married for?
> 
> I ask because everyone has heard about the 7 year itch. My counselor stated that it is an actual physiological event. Just curious if it was about the same amount of time...


10 years.


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