# how to get the truth?



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Male, 46, Indian, living for the past 2 years away from family which is in India. Visiting them once in three months. Wife is taking care of kids. Married for 16 years. Arranged marriage.

Three months ago, she confessed that she had an EA with a school mate. Her family members ended the affair and married her off to me. I did not know about the affair until her confession.

I also observed that she is a bit flirtatious to other younger men and gives them contact numbers (in my presence). Talked to an unmarried neighbor in whisper on her mobile. I could notice these two things apart from her non participative sex with me. She just engaged in sex as if nothing was happening.

I am very angry after knowing her EA, and feel used up. She says that if she had her way, she would have married the school mate. Recently, she told me that the school mate was smarter than me, and remembered his date of birth to me.
Denies any physical affair with the school mate. 

Have lovely kids, and I don't want them to suffer for no fault of theirs. She has the fighting tendency with all the family members and there is no friend for her. I know that she is a caring person and very possessive. Gets angry very quickly and it is me and kids that bear the brunt.
Please help me by advising on:
1. How to get the truth if she had any physical affair with the school mate?
2. How to know if she has any affair with any other man? I am living in a foreign country.
3. How to make things better?

Lost 10 kilos in three months, not able to apply myself properly to work, feel very depressed and angry.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

This is a school mate she had contact with only before you were married? That was 16 years ago. Whatever happened (or didn't) happened 16 years ago. She and all those kids are your's. She apparently likes to fight. She knows saying things about her old schoolmate pushes your buttons and gets you upset. That's why she says them. I'm guessing that if she actually did have a physical relationship with him, he would be the last person she would mention to you. If you didn't react to these words, she'd probably quit saying them.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks Unbelievable.

She confessed about the school mate only after a fight. She questioned me about all my friends and whatever is happening to me. I asked if you are asking questions about me, what I am doing here, tell me about your friends. In 16 years of married life, there was no mention at all.

She became angry and said if she told me about her friends I would not be able to bear and asked me to leave that subject for the good of both of us. Then I asked her what is that matter which I cannot bear.

That is how she came to confess about the EA.

Leaving that EA 16 years ago, why is she flirting with younger men? Why is she talking in whisper to my unmarried neighbor? These are the signs. Plus, there was no emotional union in the sex.

That is how I came to suspect. Is there a way to make her tell the truth?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I suppose you could waterboard her, but your time might be better spent trying to heal your relationship with her rather than worrying about whoever else might be lurking outside the marriage. You've had 16 years to prove yourself to her. If you lose her to another man, it's only because you didn't make the best use of your time. No other man has had 16 years with her. You know more about what she wants and needs than any other man. She's yours. You're in the best possible position to win and keep her heart. Rather than sit around wondering who might be your competition you might wonder why she might feel the need to turn to someone else when you're right there. Nobody runs around looking for cheap fast food when their belly is full.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

OK, arranged marriage. How old was she at that time? If young, then you have to realize that this was a traumatic event for her, in which she had no choice, and that she has not recovered from it. Personally, I think the best way to show love is to listen to her full story about her lost love (keeping in mind she is in love with a ghost, the perception of an unattainable 'perfect' man from 16 years ago) and possibly, with the help of a therapist or marriage counselor who has experience in dealing with arranged marriages, meeting this guy in person with her to discuss how she can best come to terms with the path in life she didn't take and will never take because it is in the past and cannot be recovered. 

I think that because she did not make the marriage choice herself and was in love with someone else at the time, some consideration needs to be shown for her. She is human. I think arranged marriages are nice if the people involved cover their bases and have honesty with their children's desires. But somewhere along the line her desire was not solicited or communicated from her parents. In the US, typically this happens to young adults who are railroaded or financially blackmailed into professions of their parents' choosing. 

It's sad that you have to handle an injustice that was done to your wife so many years ago. The way you handle it could demonstrate why you are the better, known, tried and true choice, her true lover and also the father of her children. To live any other way on your part, as you know, would be torture and as equally unkind to yourself.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks Homemaker_Numero_Uno for your response.

I find that you have got the issue quite right.

Why should I suffer, as I have done nothing wrong? Why should I let the children suffer?

I pitied for her and that boy when she told me about the abrupt ending of the affair by her family. She appreciated me for that. As a matter of fact, I took more pity on that boy, who was very sincere in his love. 

I also suggested I make she and her schoolmate meet, she was shocked and rejected my idea. She turned pale. If she had no PA, why should be any problem in meeting him?

I am concerned about her flirtatious talks to other men. I have a job in a foreign country and I tried (and trying to) relocating to my home country. It is yet to materialize.

The issues as I have are:

1. She was sexually very withdrawn from me when the fight broke out. I visit once in three months. She not even smiled when I reached home.

2. She was talking in whisper to unmarried neighbor man on the mobile phone.

3. She goes out of the way to flirtatiously talk to other younger men.

4. Am I missing anything? Should I do something to improve? Does she still love that school mate? Does she have other men? How to get the real truth out? I cannot accept staying apart as the reason. If I find out the real issue, we can then seek solution. She is not forthcoming however I may try.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

She's lost and confused.
Her life sounds very complicated and very lonely and for so long she kept secrets.
She needs someone to listen to her, and someone who is not going to take advantage of her.

How old are the children?
Is one of them approaching the age that she was when the love affair in school started for her? That may be the trigger that set this off.

Therapy is very helpful.
Forcing someone to do anything against their will when that was the cause of the problem, is going to make things worse.

Still, there is no need to be a doormat.
She is married, so allowing her to shirk obligations that she agreed with and supported for such a long period of time and to allow her to hurt you substantially would be doing her a disservice as that will make her, if she is normal, feel terrible about herself and make things even worse. A woman cannot love a doormat man, it is too much responsibility and guilt, etc. Shoot for balance.

Marriage counseling will help to sort out what is reasonable and unreasonable for both of you while she goes through this crisis.

As well as individual therapy for you to deal with being on the receiving end of something you probably didn't deserve. 

There is no easy answer. I think it is a process that you have to start with an open-ended solution.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks Homemaker_Numero_Uno.

Start the solution open ended!.

I am hopeful. And I pray for good times.

Kids are growing and the first one is 16.

I do not want to her to suffer, I even volunteered to walk away if she so wanted. I told her that it would pain me but I will do it for her happiness. She cried and reacted angrily.

My life at present is worse than miserable. Everyday she is fighting with me over phone...

Only Lord can give me solace...


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Saw your post here. 

Do you have any family members or trusted friend who can keep an eye on her? It's tough for her, your kids and you to be apart for such a long time due to work. Any bonding you two could do are not there. Even your kids cant bond with you.

Is it possible for them to visit you instead?

If she's faithful, then I think she's angry at you because she's lonely. Somewhere I read that divorced or widowed women in the Indian society are shunned. Is that right?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I remember reading this thread a while ago, just never commented. You're an overseas contract worker working abroad for the past 2 years. Even though you had an arranged marriage from when she was younger, did she learn to love you in the last 16 years, or is this behavior more recent? If its more recent, then its due to your work abroad. Although, I'm sure she doesnt mind the money you're sending home. I'm guessing you're a working on contract as a third country national somewhere, and you cannot bring your family with you. 

You offered to walk away and she angrily rejected that. Of course, I would imagine in your culture, she would be publicly shamed, having the scarlet letter A branded to her, disowned by her family, etc. Even this OM would be embarassed to be with her, and no man would want her.

So now you're stuck with a WW who doesn't love you, and it seems you don't love her that deeply if you're willing to walk away so easily and suggesting they meet. And she rejected that idea too, perhaps she feels you are looking to set her up with an excuse so you could divorce her. All the while, she pines away for her OM and flirts with other men. 

It all boils down to what you want. She's unremorseful about her EA with her OM, but doesn't want a divorce because of the social repercussions. Well too bad. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Sure, you can demand she end the affair, but how would you know? You're working in some other country, and I surmise that quitting your job would not be economically feasible. R is not possible for you while you're this far apart physically. You're in a difficult situation, no doubt about that. You will probably have to just let her go and divorce her. Let her be happy and be with her OM. Support your children of course. IF she loves you, then she will do her best to fix herself and the marriage before you come home. You do not deserve to be treated like this after working your butt off as a contract worker and being away from your family, then coming home to a cold, hateful wife. Let her go.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

aug said:


> Somewhere I read that divorced or widowed women in the Indian society are shunned. Is that right?


I think so, hence she angrily rejected his offer to let her go. Branded with the Scarlet Letter. Cheating is not okay over there.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

That's not a bad idea from lordmayhem. Tell her you are willing to let her go. She can then continue her relationship with the OM or flirt to her heart's content with other men.

If she wants to stay, then advise her to behave and to treat you well -- and you do the same for her.

If she stays and you accept, maybe you both can discuss ways to improve the relationship.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> I remember reading this thread a while ago, just never commented. You're an overseas contract worker working abroad for the past 2 years. Even though you had an arranged marriage from when she was younger, did she learn to love you in the last 16 years, or is this behavior more recent? If its more recent, then its due to your work abroad. Although, I'm sure she doesnt mind the money you're sending home. I'm guessing you're a working on contract as a third country national somewhere, and you cannot bring your family with you.


 I could bring them here. I am on a good job here. I brought them here and they chose to go back to home country as the schools here did not meet their expectations.


lordmayhem said:


> You offered to walk away and she angrily rejected that. Of course, I would imagine in your culture, she would be publicly shamed, having the scarlet letter A branded to her, disowned by her family, etc. Even this OM would be embarassed to be with her, and no man would want her.



I am not sure about this. I dont think this is the case anymore.



lordmayhem said:


> So now you're stuck with a WW who doesn't love you, and it seems you don't love her that deeply if you're willing to walk away so easily and suggesting they meet. And she rejected that idea too, perhaps she feels you are looking to set her up with an excuse so you could divorce her. All the while, she pines away for her OM and flirts with other men.
> 
> 
> 
> It all boils down to what you want. She's unremorseful about her EA with her OM, but doesn't want a divorce because of the social repercussions. Well too bad. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Sure, you can demand she end the affair, but how would you know? You're working in some other country, and I surmise that quitting your job would not be economically feasible. R is not possible for you while you're this far apart physically. You're in a difficult situation, no doubt about that. You will probably have to just let her go and divorce her. Let her be happy and be with her OM. Support your children of course. IF she loves you, then she will do her best to fix herself and the marriage before you come home. You do not deserve to be treated like this after working your butt off as a contract worker and being away from your family, then coming home to a cold, hateful wife. Let her go.


I am very upset. Drained. Angry. Angry. What should I do?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I see, you did bring them there and it didn't work. Then let her go since she doesn't love you and may not have loved you. Let her be with her Mr Wonderful. Support your children, but cut her off.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

AngryandUsed said:


> I could bring them here. I am on a good job here. I brought them here and they chose to go back to home country as the schools here did not meet their expectations.



Who chose to go back? Your wife or your kids? Who primarily pushed to go back? 

If your kids, they are early teens, right? I suppose they want to go back because they missed their friends?


Did your wife want to go back? Did she want to stay with you?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

aug said:


> Who chose to go back? Your wife or your kids? Who primarily pushed to go back?
> 
> If your kids, they are early teens, right? I suppose they want to go back because they missed their friends?
> 
> ...


She was initially reluctant. She came with Kids and kids did not like the school and the place. I had to send them back.

*One more incident that comes to my mind*

In 2009, she had a yoga massage from an acquaintance in the place I live now. That guy is a sex addict, I realize it now, and he is asking for wife swapping for one night. He says he had sex with many women most of them through his yoga classes! He says he trapped many women. My wife says he massaged her and did not make any sexual advances. Earlier, she said he massaged only navel and downwards and changed her version that he massaged all over body. 

When I told her that he invited me to meet him, she actively discouraged me from meeting him.


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## I_Will_Survive (Oct 28, 2011)

AngryandUsed said:


> When I told her that he invited me to meet him, she actively discouraged me from meeting him.


Oh, that's not good. 

But it doesn't mean there is anything physical going on. There's a lot here and there's no way to be sure what is happening in her mind. I'm sorry. I hope & believe you can turn it around. Best of luck to you.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

She's probably upset that she has to go back with the kids. She probably want to stay with you (and the yoga guy?)

How old are the kids? Can someone in your family look after the kids while she comes visit you?

Tell her you dont appreciate her flirting and (potential) infidelity. Set a deadline for her to change her behavior. Otherwise you will let her go.

OTH, she (and you) may need intimacy and you're too far away. You may need to solve this issue?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

aug said:


> She's probably upset that she has to go back with the kids. She probably want to stay with you (and the yoga guy?)
> 
> How old are the kids? Can someone in your family look after the kids while she comes visit you?
> 
> ...


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

aug said:


> She's probably upset that she has to go back with the kids. She probably want to stay with you (and the yoga guy?)


I believe what they said. They did not like the school. Initially, she did not want to come here.



aug said:


> How old are the kids? Can someone in your family look after the kids while she comes visit you?


Elder one 16 and younger is 11. We request my in laws to help when she visits here.



aug said:


> Tell her you dont appreciate her flirting and (potential) infidelity. Set a deadline for her to change her behavior. Otherwise you will let her go.


She says I am trying to dominate her. I insist on total transparency. I dont get.



aug said:


> OTH, she (and you) may need intimacy and you're too far away. You may need to solve this issue?


I need to solve this issue. I need the truth as it is. Is there a way?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I_Will_Survive said:


> Oh, that's not good.
> 
> But it doesn't mean there is anything physical going on. There's a lot here and there's no way to be sure what is happening in her mind. I'm sorry. I hope & believe you can turn it around. Best of luck to you.


Is there a way, I_will_Survive, to get the truth? Has anyone gone through something similar to this? I will really appreciate advice.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Truth? 

Some suggestions:

When she's here spring a polygraph test on her.

Can you afford to hire a good private detective in India? Get them to send you pictures/videos of any infidelity.

Can you get your family to secretly monitor her? This may not work since your family does not like her.

Can you recover the texts from her cellphone? It's possible with iphones if she syncs/backup with itunes.

Can you install a GPS monitoring on her cellphone?

Does she have a laptop? Keylogger?



Maybe you can come up with more ideas?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

From where I sit it seems to me that your wife is far from being a loving, trustworthy, lifelong companion. So even if the truth doesn't uncover any more affairs, you still have the issue of a loveless marriage. Are you willing to continue living in such a marriage?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

morituri said:


> From where I sit it seems to me that your wife is far from being a loving, trustworthy, lifelong companion. So even if the truth doesn't uncover any more affairs, you still have the issue of a loveless marriage. Are you willing to continue living in such a marriage?



It was an arranged marriage. Love and respect can hopefully grow during the relationship. Isnt there a stats that said the divorce rates are much lower for arranged marriage?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

aug said:


> It was an arranged marriage. Love and respect can hopefully grow during the relationship. Isnt there a stats that said the divorce rates are much lower for arranged marriage?


I know that but it is irrelevant to the issue on hand of living in a loveless marriage. Unless divorce is forbidden in his culture, he is free to divorce his wife and move on with his life.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

aug said:


> It was an arranged marriage. Love and respect can hopefully grow during the relationship. Isnt there a stats that said the divorce rates are much lower for arranged marriage?


you're missing the cultural element behind that, divorce is a big no-no in cultures that have arranged marriages and many people just stay in unhappy marriages as a result.


as far as the OP -


I can't honestly say how you can get the truth while your wife is in another country. Especially since she is using smart phone apps to do her cheating with.

Confronting the OM will likely get you nowhere, unless OM is married and you can speak to his wife instead as perhaps she knows something.
And predator yoga guy is a huge red flag and I would say that it doesn't look good and it is very likely he had his way with your wife.


you say you don't want divorce because of the kids, but in all honesty if they aren't currently living with you then it won't be that much of a difference if you're away and married than if you're away and divorced. (unless there is some cultural stigma that the kids will have to deal with as a result of having divorced parents)

Time to face facts- this was an arranged marriage, while you hoped that she would grow to love you it seems to me that she has never stopped pining away for OM, has increasingly shown you more and more disrespect with yoga predator and her attitude and actions. The threat of divorce just makes her get angry and guilty instead of changing and showing remorse.

thus- what do you have really? You have no love, no respect, and no real marriage

If you were an American I would be saying to get a lawyer and file and eventually find someone else who deserves your love. BUt, I can't speak to what your culture and viewpoints are like.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> you're missing the cultural element behind that, divorce is a big no-no in cultures that have arranged marriages and many people just stay in unhappy marriages as a result.
> 
> 
> as far as the OP -
> ...


Is there a way I can find this out?




Almostrecovered said:


> you say you don't want divorce because of the kids, but in all honesty if they aren't currently living with you then it won't be that much of a difference if you're away and married than if you're away and divorced. (unless there is some cultural stigma that the kids will have to deal with as a result of having divorced parents)


Yes, there is a big stigma for kids of divorced parents. The kids are lovely and innocent. Why should they suffer for no fault of theirs?



Almostrecovered said:


> Time to face facts- this was an arranged marriage, while you hoped that she would grow to love you it seems to me that she has never stopped pining away for OM, has increasingly shown you more and more disrespect with yoga predator and her attitude and actions. The threat of divorce just makes her get angry and guilty instead of changing and showing remorse.
> 
> thus- what do you have really? You have no love, no respect, and no real marriage


Do I deserve all the things I undergo? What wrong did I do? I have never strayed. And this is the reward? 



Almostrecovered said:


> If you were an American I would be saying to get a lawyer and file and eventually find someone else who deserves your love. BUt, I can't speak to what your culture and viewpoints are like.


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## Sindo (Oct 29, 2011)

> 1. How to get the truth if she had any physical affair with the school mate?


Does this matter? This happened before the two of you even met.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

AU, you have essentially two options:

1. Accept that you are a cuckold in a one sided open marriage who is unwilling to divorce his wife because of cultural traditions. 

2. Screw cultural traditions and divorce her.

Stop dancing around the issue and make a choice you can live with.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

AngryandUsed said:


> Is there a way I can find this out?
> 
> *not unless your wife confesses which is unlikely*
> 
> ...


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## expatforlife (Jun 12, 2011)

The way I see it is your wife doesn't love you in a romantic way. It is not a matter of what you necessarily did wrong to me.

If divorce is not a choice then you need to find a way for you both to get satisfaction from the marriage. Therefore, you have to find out what both sides needs are and renegotiate a new "marriage contract" so you both can fill as many needs as possible under the circumstances. If not you can both live and
grow to hate each other which doesn't sound fun.


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