# 18 years on - help!



## tamuser (Feb 17, 2012)

My wife of 21 years cheated on me 18 years ago - EA during a school related separation that went to PA during a visit afterward (one time). She told me in anger 17 years ago. She had cut it off with him maybe 9 months earlier and we had another kid (my kid, DNA test (recently)) It killed me when she told me - I decided to stick it out. I wanted to know everything about the affair - every last detail. She wouldn't tell, saying she couldn't remember everything or would just have an emotional breakdown when I started asking questions. Over the coming years, she used it in fights against me a few times, and whenever I got re-focused on it, asking for details, she went through the same script - emotional breakdown at the end. She would demand a "safe" place to talk, like therapy - we tried a few times, but always got way off track. She always brings up a bunch of other issues, many of them valid, and we never get to what's important to me.

Over time, I started to get over it, and asked / wondered about it less.

The PA was on Valentine's day weekend - always a trigger since. Now I find myself really wanting to know all the details - she says she doesn't remember (which has more credibility, 18 years later), and today she had a major meltdown (throwing things, threatening suicide, etc.). I'm in terrible shape.

What can I do? We had a third kid a few years ago, and I have no intention of leaving. I really do love her, and I think I should be able to get over it, but the feeling that she's holding out on me won't go away, and the thoughts are driving me crazy.

I don't believe she's had any other affairs before or since - if you suspect so, please don't say so - please just assume she hasn't, and let me know what I can do assuming that's true.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What will you do with the details?


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## tamuser (Feb 17, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What will you do with the details?


Well, know them, for one... I do have the mental movies that everyone talks about here - they come up with triggers. I believe knowing all the details will help. Also, I want to know more about the EA because she says we have emotional intimacy problems.

I guess mainly I'm just seeking some sort of closure. I don't feel like it's happened for me.

Edit: I thought my need to know the details would fade over time, but it really hasn't - it has only moved to the back burner of my brain (very much back on the front burner at the moment). Also, I've been waiting for 18 years - do I not have a right to know?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You chose to stay with her years ago. Now its always the elephant in the room. You need counseling with a counselor familiar with infiedlity issues including ptsd. Don't let this destroy your family. Until you haave gone through counseling quit dirupting your family with it. Your torturing her and yourself and that is affecting your children.

Don't be afraid to change counselors if you don't click.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What have you done over the years to get over this?


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## tamuser (Feb 17, 2012)

chapparal said:


> What have you done over the years to get over this?


I've had some individual counseling, but mostly at times when it wasn't bugging me so bad. We've done counseling together, but always got focused on issues other than the affair.

Once I started IC and then brought her in and it was a disaster. The counselor told me I should get a divorce.

Other trusted friends and advisers have pretty much unanimously told me to get a divorce over the years (we fight a lot, but do have long periods of better times).

Edit - MC together 4 different times, IC 3 different times.

I was happy that it seemed to be fading on its own, or perhaps in response to the counseling, but today it seems like it just happened.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Read *Stuggling4ever*'s thread. His story is similar to yours, except his wife wife did some particularly dispicable things.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Quite a few people here say it can be hard to find the right counselor. Have you checked to see if you can find one that specializes in infidelity and ptsd? There is really notmuch more traumatic than what you have gone through. It ptsd does not go away with out appropriate counseling. Google that and see if you can get a little insight if you have not been treated for that.


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## tamuser (Feb 17, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Read *Stuggling4ever*'s thread. His story is similar to yours, except his wife wife did some particularly dispicable things.


I copy/pasted that username (without the apostrophe-s) into the search for threads started by user, and nothing came up - any good way to find it?


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## tamuser (Feb 17, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Quite a few people here say it can be hard to find the right counselor. Have you checked to see if you can find one that specializes in infidelity and ptsd? There is really notmuch more traumatic than what you have gone through. It ptsd does not go away with out appropriate counseling. Google that and see if you can get a little insight if you have not been treated for that.


Fair enough - I'll start looking. 

Anything I can do right now?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Lifting weights always improves my outlook. Its the chemical release.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Your only leverage is to make her more uncomfortable not telling rather than telling. At least as long as she doesn't want to tell you.

My guess is that things were more involved than she said originally, and since then she hasn't wanted to admit the truth. Virtually every case I have read here or on other forums follows that same pattern. The cheater only admits what they are forced to admit, and only as much as they get away with. As the BS learns more independently, the WS admits a trickle more at a time.

Only partially joking here, there are meds used during some normal procedures which are similar to truth serums and also cause amnesia for a couple of hours. Versed is one, I believe. I had it when they ran a scope into my stomach. If your wife goes in for something that requires a short term anesthesia (colonoscopy, etc), you might be able to ask her questions immediately afterwards. Do a bit of research to learn which meds may be in this category and then find out what she is getting if she has one of these procedures.

I can't help but think your wife does not understand how important this is to you, or else she doesn't care how hurtful it is to you.

You might try reading the book "After the Affair", and then asking her to read it. The book covers both sides of the marriage after an affair, describing what the fears, thoughts, hopes, and assumptions are. She may learn that you are normal in needing answers, and she may decide to come clean.

Your only other option is to file for divorce (and be prepared to follow through). You have chosen to stay even with the knowledge of the affair. Every day divorce should be an option for both of you, and if this reaches critical mass for you then you should decide to pull the plug on the marriage.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

This is your sub--conscious your dealing with---and sad to say, it probably won't let you heal, until it gets all the details

You have been fighting this for 17 yrs., and in your case, it seems your sub-conscious needs to know, it doesn't want gaps, it doesn't wanna fill in the blanks, it wants to know.

You need to just sit your wife down, no matter, what she likes or doesn't like, tell her the only for this to go away, is for you to know

Make her understand, you arn't leaving, you just need to know. She is being selfish by her refusal, or she may actually, might be covering up what you think is the tip of an iceberg---with a much worse reality, than you will ever know. Maybe she is scared to face what you might do, if you do find out the whole A., was much worse.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

This is torture to both of you.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> I copy/pasted that username (without the apostrophe-s) into the search for threads started by user, and nothing came up - any good way to find it?


Here is the link to hs profile.

Talk About Marriage - View Profile: Struggling4ever


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Look, after 18 years you need to move on. You knew she cheated, you stayed with her. That was your choice. You are wasting your time if you think advice is going to be beneficial after this long. Unless of course its to say get over it. Or don't, your choice. 

There, no comments about her cheating now.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Wow! 18 years ago, and you haven't healed yet? Was this swept under the carpet all this time? Look, I don't want to alarm you, but could it be that one POSSIBLE reason that you haven't healed after all this time is that your gut has been screaming at you that there have been other affairs since then?

I don't want you to go screaming at her that she's cheating again without any proof. Have there been any red flags that you've noticed in the years since? 

There's been a few stories here where the WS cheated years ago, and continued to cheat, unbeknowst to the BS. But you will have to think about that one first. 

Otherwise, you may have to just let her go, because infidelity is a deal breaker for many people and they just stay in the marriage for other reasons like kids, finances, etc. They just end up miserable and resentful. Have you been to IC or MC about this? Was she remorseful and transparent after the affair? We need more information here.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

lordmayhem said:


> Wow! 18 years ago, and you haven't healed yet? Was this swept under the carpet all this time? Look, I don't want to alarm you, but could it be that one POSSIBLE reason that you haven't healed after all this time is that your gut has been screaming at you that there have been other affairs since then?
> 
> I don't want you to go screaming at her that she's cheating again without any proof. Have there been any red flags that you've noticed in the years since?
> 
> ...


*
ah,ah,ah. No mentioning that she may be cheating, per his request. I do find it hilarious that BS and cheaters come here for advice and before its given, they request that they only get certain opinions. Isn't that the way society is today. Tell me what I want to hear, not what you think or your real thoughts. *


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Tam,

Really... 18 years. I thought I was in pretty bad shape about "knowing all" and it's been 2 1/2 years. If anything I learned, regardless or staying or divorcing, the BS WILL NEVER KNOW ALL.

You can chart all the times, places... cross reference them with where you were... look at dated photos, review the phone records, visa charges, mileage on the cars... on and on and on. 

You can asked for answers and probably get some, but deep down will you really believe her?

Was it 5 times or 15.?Was it in motels or did she do it in your home? Did she enjoy it? Does she still think about HIM? And the biggie... WHY?

In the end, SHE CHEATED, SHE HAD SEX with another. 

Really, 18 years, time to move on... or move out.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

tamuser said:


> Well, know them, for one... I do have the mental movies that everyone talks about here - they come up with triggers. I believe knowing all the details will help. Also, I want to know more about the EA because she says we have emotional intimacy problems.
> 
> I guess mainly I'm just seeking some sort of closure. I don't feel like it's happened for me.
> 
> Edit: I thought my need to know the details would fade over time, but it really hasn't - it has only moved to the back burner of my brain (very much back on the front burner at the moment). Also, I've been waiting for 18 years - do I not have a right to know?


Trust me on this one, if you knew the details the mind movies would not be something you can tell yourself is your mind thinking the worst. When you know all the details the mind movies become fact. It is what she did. It was what she felt. It was great, exciting, new, and diffrent. (just things I'm dealing with) 

18 years is a long time to hang onto it. How have they been. Might want to look into emdr to help you with putting it behind you.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Tamuser, I'm over 10 yrs out, and I still have times when the memory troubles me. I stayed for the family and because I love her. At about the six year mark, I found that I couldn't do it alone anymore. I sought out a therapist who helped me deal with the trust issues from her affair, and from previous betrayal. Now I deal with the triggers using meditation, exercise, and getting out into the mountains, all of which would benefit anyone. In other words, take care of you.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Read *Stuggling4ever*'s thread. His story is similar to yours, except his wife wife did some particularly dispicable things.


I would say we have that in common bandit...trip to Cali...cruise? At least in your case it wasn't happening under your nose with a supposed "friend". I was in denial about what really happened back then. I couldn't accept it or believe it and stay, so I rewrote the truth, tried to convince myself it wasn't her fault and stayed. We moved on and she was able to put it behind her....for me it has always been the "elephant in the room"...I can be out and see someone that looks similar, hear a song, see a certain style motorcycle, and just get angry. We have also had a lot of great times in 11 years including concerts, vacations, hanging with friends...but it will always be there....for me it's hard. I love her, but I think I need to seperate and and least see how life is on my own...for me.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Initfortheduration said:


> *
> ah,ah,ah. No mentioning that she may be cheating, per his request. I do find it hilarious that BS and cheaters come here for advice and before its given, they request that they only get certain opinions. Isn't that the way society is today. Tell me what I want to hear, not what you think or your real thoughts. *


Oooops! I missed that. Forget what I said. You just need a bigger rug to sweep it under.


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## tamuser (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies - I knew my insistence on assuming there had been no more cheating would be suspicious - I just wasn't in the state of mind to go into details (impossible to prove a negative, and very difficult to substantiate it without a lot of information that I just didn't have the energy to go into):

1) we haven't spent any extended periods apart since then - this appeared to be key, especially since I was pretty much of an ******* during the time leading up to the separation (school related, mind you, not "we're separated").
2) she has been transparent with her communications, leaving her email / facebook / etc. open and not caring what I see. Also, her cell phone is almost always dead.
3) I pay all the bills and manage all the accounts - it would be very difficult for her to establish any form of electronic communication without my knowledge (and would require someone else's money to do it - not out of the question, I know).
4) I'm a *lot* more tech savvy than her. At different times, and for different primary reasons (monitoring child electronic activity, ensuring physical security in high-opportunity crime neighborhoods), I've had things like packet sniffers and cameras installed - never seen even an inkling of evidence (not that I've actively looked for it, really, but I think I would have noticed).
5) I know that cheaters learn from the first one and do it better the next time, but I've seen none of the signs of emotional or sexual withdrawal, or other distraction that I would expect. It's worth noting that one of the things she seemed to value most out the affair was the ability to punish me by talking about it in anger - I tend to think that she'd at some point gleefully use any other ammo she had accumulated as well.
6) She hasn't made or maintained any male friends since then, and we've moved a great distance away

I could go on (and I will if I need to), but I'm confident that it hasn't happened.

For those of you who are saying things like "it's been 18 years - get over it" - you're absolutely right, and I've told myself things like that constantly. For significant periods, I've even been "over it". But at the moment (Valentine's day acting as a stronger trigger than usual for some reason), it's killing me, and that's why I'm here.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Remember the quote from Jack Nicholson in A Few good Men

Sometimes you won't be able to handle the truth. If I told my wife everything that happened back then, I'm pretty sure she would leave me and most of you would string me up to a tree in a heartbeat for what I did back then.

I remember everything (when I was sober and not high) about the OW and what we did, where we went. Not every single detail but I know about how many times, again booze and drugs cloud my memory.

When I say it happened once only, that's almost always a lie. When i say the sex wasn't that good, almost always a lie also.

The reason we say we can't remember is because we know you will leave us in an instant if you know everything.

Thankfully my wife never asked for everything because no matter how bad it was, I would have told her knowing it would have killed her love for me forever at that point.

Only you can decide what you must know and if you need to know it. And only you can decide if you can take going through this every single year for the rest of your life.


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## tamuser (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks everyone - feeling much better today.

My wife sat down and did her best to answer all my questions. I did have to push - your comments steeled my resolve, but most importantly somehow helped me maintain calm while I was asking, probably making her feel more safe in the discussion. That is to say, I had no doubt that insisting on knowing was my right, and that helped me to go after what I wanted without getting [as] aggressive.

I'm nowhere near the fly-on-the-wall perspective that I wish I had, but I do believe she was being as forthcoming as she could be.

I also realized (on my own, not due to prompting from her) that at least a portion of my problem is that I'm not in the best spot right now emotionally for other reasons, and when the feelings came up, I sort of chose to grab and focus and amplify them to distract myself from the other stuff. I say this primary to dispel the impression that at D-Day + 17 years, I'm hopelessly in the grip of my pain.

Your comments have been very helpful. We will seek counseling. Truthfully, I'm a little pessimistic about finding a good counselor, and I'm afraid bad counseling (as I believe we've had in the past) will do more harm than good, but at least I'll go in with open eyes and hopefully get some benefit if it's available.

And here's the part I'm almost afraid to write - her description of the feelings she had for the OM were that he was kind and compassionate, and willing to listen to her [mostly complain about how inconsiderate and uncaring I was] emotional issues in a way that I've generally been unwilling or unable to do , particularly at that time. It sounds like he took a fairly big blow when she dumped their relationship in favor of her uncaring husband. I have a glimpse right now at how I can be more loving and compassionate (I hate the word 'supportive' because I don't know what it means, and so I won't use it) and probably improve our relationship and intimacy single-handedly, which I plan to do.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you two read the books "His Needs Her Needs", and The Five Love Languages"?


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## oldpainshurt (Dec 15, 2011)

tamuser said:


> Thanks everyone - feeling much better today.
> 
> My wife sat down and did her best to answer all my questions. I did have to push - your comments steeled my resolve, but most importantly somehow helped me maintain calm while I was asking, probably making her feel more safe in the discussion. That is to say, I had no doubt that insisting on knowing was my right, and that helped me to go after what I wanted without getting [as] aggressive.
> 
> ...


I wish you so much luck...I had to know details of what my wife did 25 years ago...I wish I had never asked. We had a wonderful marriage going, everything seemed near perfect for that whole 25 years. Sometimes what you learn can destroy you. I used to think about that night only ocassionally, now it haunts me everyday and in the process I learned she had cheated at least one other time...and you just wind up asking yourself why you ever thought openning Pandora's Box was some how going to bring relief or anything close to closure...It can be the gateway to a living hell...


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## 5stringpicker (Feb 11, 2012)

I think the burning, perpetual desire to know the details are for one or two reasons:

1. You want to make sure it wasn't your lack of sexual skills that caused her to seek something a little more satisfying.

2. A hidden desire to hear about your wife's sexual encounter. I've know some guys that like to watch. One fellow was even complained only because his wife had an 3 month affair with a guy who was smaller, if you know what I mean.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

5stringpicker said:


> I think the burning, perpetual desire to know the details are for one or two reasons:
> 
> 1. You want to make sure it wasn't your lack of sexual skills that caused her to seek something a little more satisfying.
> 
> 2. A hidden desire to hear about your wife's sexual encounter. I've know some guys that like to watch. One fellow was even complained only because his wife had an 3 month affair with a guy who was smaller, if you know what I mean.


As far as #1...you will never know the truth. If she says he was better, it will destroy you. If she says you were better, will you really ever believe her or know? NO

As far as #2....I would/could never understand that twisted thought process!!! If I was it i would either kill someone or puke...probably both! And I could give a sh*t about size.... there is no size in an EA and that still destroys marriages.


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## tamuser (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks again, everyone. I should have been more specific - she told me the details about the sex long ago. What I'm missing are the details about what they talked about during the long distance EA, and what sort of things they might have hid from me - mostly communication. I also wanted to know everywhere they went and everything they did together other than the sex when they were together.

I'm sure I'm bigger/better that that little pr**k of a guy


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## 5stringpicker (Feb 11, 2012)

As long as you're aware that you'll never get enough information to satisfy you, you'll be ok. No matter how much she tells you, never know whether you're getting the whole story. You are choosing your own hell. Bottom line, no matter how you cut it, she banged another guy, you found out, you decided to stay and have been in hell ever since.


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