# Seriously Need Help! I Feel Like I Raped My Wife



## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

So my wife and I of 13.5yrs have hit a lot of huge bumps in the road over the past year. It started to get progressively worse this past summer when she asked if we could open our relationship up. I won't get into it all in this thread, but things had and still are at a point where we do not know what direction our marriage is going to take. Prior to 6 weeks ago, things seemed as though they were progressively getting better however. We started therapy and started talking more.

Of course because of other issues in our relationship have come about, the sex had dropped off as well. I was told that she no longer desired me that way, that she wanted to be with more of a "alpha" type man in the bedroom vs. me whom doesn't view sex as just sex, but something I could only do and am only capable of doing with someone I sincerely love. I've never been the "demanding" type in the bedroom. With things the way they were going and seeing my marriage seemingly falling apart right in front of me I felt like I'll do anything to salvage it. We were still having sex regardless.... times she wasn't all into it, others I wasn't and sometimes by luck we were both into it but it felt different. I constantly heard the stuff about the "alpha" type guy, then she started having fantasies about multiple guys, s&M, etc. that she started bringing to my attention. We both had gotten into a bad place...me not wanting us to fall apart and her not knowing what she wanted but saying that i wasn't fulfilling her needs sexually and have almost become more like a "brother" than a husband. So we started going to therapy to work on things and things seemed as though they were getting better.

Then one night while snuggling in bed I tried to start touching her and she said she wasn't interested in that. So I laid there. I tried again and she said it again. Then for whatever reason I recalled in my mind her saying over and over about wishing to be with an "alpha" type man vs me, someone that craved and just wanted to do like the books she's been reading, ripping her close off and having sex (not necessarily making love). So I advanced to kissing her passionately and started taking her close off. She didn't seem comfortable with it at first, however, she was helping take off clothes and going along with it. Then when the deed actually began it felt like I was with a lifeless body that was just there like I forced myself on her. I didn't even finish nor wanted to. I felt like I was completely wrong for even trying to be someone I wasn't, I hated every moment of it and like it wasn't doing either of us good.

The next day she told me she was hurt and resented what had happened. That she didn't want it and felt disrespected and that I didn't listen to her saying "no". But she also said that she felt responsible for what happened as well because she started removing clothes and felt as though that was just giving in. She wasn't scared of me hurting her, she didn't want to upset or hurt my feelings though by not. I said I was sorry and that I felt as though what had happened between us only set things back further vs. making them any better. And that I wanted to be what she wanted, but that wasn't me and it all felt wrong, very wrong! She said that was fine and that she would be fine, she just needed time. 

A week later while in bed again and snuggling I asked if she was interested and she said no. I said okay, a little hurt by the way she said it and that she still felt the way she did, but that was that and I wasn't about to try to be someone or something I'm not again. I was fine with it and respecting what she felt. So I felt it better to just get up and walk away for a breather alone. She felt like she had upset me then yelled at me to get back in bed and get undressed. I wasn't sure at this time what to do and continued to leave the room. She then said, "Seriously... get back in bed and get undressed!!" So I did. While her taking control seemed a bit of a turn on, it still didn't feel right. Like something underlying from the previous time was going on. Like she wasn't telling me something and the distance continued even though she said over and over she was okay and had let all that go.

6 weeks later, our marriage still is on the rocks and we haven't had sex since the last time above. She will cuddle but no heavy kissing or anything past holding hands or hugging. I asked her to seriously tell me what is going on last night. Is our marriage at a point where we'll never be able to work things out? She has been in a "limbo" since last year around this time and still hasn't made any decision whether to try to fix it or not to. In the meantime, our 8yr. old son thankfully knows very little of our arguments, but I feel as though the longer we drag it out the more apparent things will become to him. Nevertheless, getting back to this part of the relation.... what happened to the woman I knew wanted sex all the time and who had all of these fantasies of having sex with multiple people at one time, wanting to get into the dominance thing, etc.? She then tells me, "I don't want sex. I don't think I ever will ever again! Not with you or anyone!" She then proceeds to burst out crying and say, "remember the night I didn't want to and you did, and you acted very dominating?" I say "yes, I do and I'm not happy about that at all! I didn't feel like that was me, my character or what I ever wanted but that I "thought" it was what she wanted by constantly sticking my nose in wanting a more "dominate / alpha" type guy."
She then went on to say well, after all was done that night she went to the bathroom and cried, had a panic attack, then showered profusely, douched and felt dirty, used and disrespected. 

We talked here and there over the weeks leading up to last night about it and every time she has said she's okay. But last night she was crying a lot when she told me all of this and that she felt like she was over reacting to the situation. Here's the worst part of it all.... Not only do I think she's not over reacting at all but I feel like I raped my wife!! I even told her that and that if I could take that night back I would. I said to her I would willingly go to the police and turn myself in knowing that I would be listed as a sex offender. It wasn't meant to be like that or thought of like that.... I was trying to be what I kept hearing she wanted, desired and needed and failed miserably...not only did I fail, but it was portrayed not only in my eyes but hers to some extent (though she doesn't think it was) as well to be rape! 

Trying to fix our relationship I've actually damaged ALOT more. And she even said that prior to that night she felt as though things were getting better, but now fears she'll never want to have sex again...not only with me but at all. I've ruined my wife and feel horrible and do not know what to do!!!????!!!!!


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## Cobalt (Nov 16, 2014)




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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

I don't know the right answer here except to say I in no way think YOU ruined your wife. You appear way too invested. There is more to her story but I can almost guarantee you, as a person, are not the problem.
You will get better advice on here than what I just said.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Your wife has to have something else going on. You'd said you hit a rough patch, what was the source of it? Does she have abuse in her history?

Why would she want an own relationship? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

You didn't rape her. She needs therapy and so do you. You might want to read "What women want" by Daniel Bergner. It may give you both some insight into your situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. She may have been cheating on you or wanting too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Your wife has to have something else going on. You'd said you hit a rough patch, what was the source of it? Does she have abuse in her history?
> 
> Why would she want an own relationship?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I just posted else where... I have multiple sclerosis, she was diagnosed with epilepsy not too long ago. Both of which can be a little overwhelming at times. A top of that stuff, we have hit the "mid-life" thing I believe. While I see it like that, and am not viewing it as a "crisis" I believe she is. I understand that as we get older the more we become concerned about what "we haven't yet done" and "who we are or have become vs want to be". I get all of that. She has always gone through phases of weight gain and weight loss, wanting affirmation, and feels like her mom berated her growing up like she could never do anything right. She's never been physically abused or sexually abused (at least not that she has told me or admitted to even when I've asked). 6 years ago we had issues when I was diagnosed with ms and she had gotten a credit card to help pay for all of the doctor co-pays. A year later I found out she had gotten the credit card without my knowing...and also that there was a rather large balance on it due to not paying bills, etc. I also found out that my name was on this card as well..so it was inevitably going to effect my credit rating. Things got pretty heated and upsetting, but everything got resolved and I paid the card off. A year ago we went to a local group to try to meet new people. She's not exactly a social butterfly, but I thought it would be fun and maybe we could meet people in similar stages of life, etc. She didn't really click with them like I had hoped, but she didn't mind hanging out with them either. The group would go on hikes, etc. and I eventually ended up going out with them by myself more than with her coming along. It got a little weird to say the least because she was almost shoving me out the door. When I would come home she would be sitting on the couch reading or playing a game on her phone, but if I sat beside her she would immediately turn the phone off. So after a few days of that I felt the need to look at her phone and realized she was then talking to some guy and sending pictures to him and not just regular selfies you wouldn't mind your kids seeing. I didn't know what to do or what to say... I asked her what was going on and she said that since I was hanging out with the group she felt the need/want to talk to someone. She said she noticed that I had become close to one of the woman of the group as well. Which was true...but nothing physical nor emotional was happening. She then asked me if I would be okay with an open relationship. Completely caught off guard I didn't know what to do. I was frustrated with the text and pictures, but I still didn't want to lose my wife. I didn't want to break apart our family over pictures and text. I didn't have answers or suggestions but she did. So I eventually said fine. I went on dates with the other girl and she continued to talk to the guy. Nothing sexual happened btw with me and the girl other than kissing. And my wife never even met the guy she was texting/sexting with. However, I didn't want that. I wanted my wife and only her. So I stopped the entire open thing and we started therapy. The first therapist started off by telling us he was a mediator so if we were going to get divorced he could help us out...lol The second therapist turned out to be great, but my wife being undecided if she wanted to work things out or not doesn't work well in couples therapy and I just ended that this past week because apparently couples therapy works when you both have the same goal in mind whether it means you want to work at it or do not, but if one wants one thing and the other doesn't know what the hell they want it doesn't help to seek couples therapy. That said, we talked about it constantly over the weekend and came to the conclusion to seek individual therapy... I admit that I am moody and an emotionally driven person, I wear my emotions on my sleeve whether when I'm happy, upset, mad, etc. I also know that having been diagnosed with ms and depression that doesn't help. So I figured if anything I need to help myself and hopefully intern that will help us. I suggested the same to her and she's going to seek therapy as well. But we're both still hurting in the meantime while we wait for our new therapy to start as to what actually happened and how to deal with it. I know the therapist will help.. I just don't want to make things worse than they are by doing or saying anything until then or not doing and not saying anything until then. Make sense? It's a very sensitive subject and rape is not at all something anyone should be faced with or feel like has happened to them whether it did or didn't.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So she thinks you had an affair? How does she feel about these dates you went on? Sounds like she thought you were already involved with that woman. 
This could've caused a lot of resentment that hasn't been dealt with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> P.S. She may have been cheating on you or wanting too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Think this is explained in my last comment. Also wanted to say thank you for saying I didn't do what I feel like I did, if that makes any sense. It's very tough for me to stomach feeling like I raped or even in any way it being suggested that I raped my wife. Honestly, if I ever did that to her or anyone I wouldn't want to live. That was not at all my intent and though I can actually understand her feeling it is what happened..that alone makes me feel like the scum of the earth and like I should off myself (though I'm not going to).


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

code74 said:


> Think this is explained in my last comment. Also wanted to say thank you for saying I didn't do what I feel like I did, if that makes any sense. It's very tough for me to stomach feeling like I raped or even in any way it being suggested that I raped my wife. Honestly, if I ever did that to her or anyone I wouldn't want to live. That was not at all my intent and though I can actually understand her feeling it is what happened..that alone makes me feel like the scum of the earth and like I should off myself (though I'm not going to).


I second that you didn't rape your wife. There's just something else going on and you need to find out what it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> So she thinks you had an affair? How does she feel about these dates you went on? Sounds like she thought you were already involved with that woman.
> This could've caused a lot of resentment that hasn't been dealt with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She suggested I go out and hang with this other woman. She felt like the other woman gave me things that she couldn't. Essentially like a polyamorous relationship. She even knew and hung out with the other woman when we were "dating". I think she felt like there was a mutual mental connection prior to my wife suggesting the "open marriage" thing. She knows that I did not cheat on her emotionally nor physically prior. And actually that all ended back in december. I haven't seen nor spoken to the girl since January and in january the only reason we did was because we have mutual friends and were at an mutual event. On a side note...my wife is now speaking to 2 other guys. I have seen the text.. no pictures and nothing that I've seen to be at all outside of friendly conversation. So as far as what caused all this crap initially goes...that seems to of passed for the most part and moving forward to some extent till this entire rape thing brought it to a crashing halt.


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## UserNameAgain (Nov 5, 2014)

Look up a book called "Just F*ck Me" by Eve Kingsley. (It's on Amazon) It was very effective in communicating to my H what I meant by him being "alpha" sexually. It is not even remotely like rape. Working pretty well for us.


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

i don't think that we'll be attempting sex any time soon, whether we read a book on how to do it "the right way" or not until she and I both and comprehend what happened that night, me feeling like she's right... like i raped her and her feeling like I did to an extent and why she has no sexual desires whatsoever because of what happened. She's exceptionally good at bottling things up, like this. But when the bottle is shaken over and over the cork pops at some point and it's complete turmoil. I don't want to shake the bottle till we figure out what happened and how to fix it. Which is what I don't know the answer to and am having an extremely hard time dealing with both with myself and with knowing she feels the way she does.
But thank you for the book suggestions.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Well, she wanted an alpha. She got one.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

She might be trying to get out of the marriage but doing it in a very passive way where the divorce ends up being all your fault. She can list your wrongs and misdeeds for her friends in justification for the demise of your marriage. 

Oddly enough circumstances tonight placed me with a woman who opened her marriage about 6 years ago. Now her DH is leaving her for his current girl friend. I am aware this arrangement does work for some. But I think a lot of times it's used like a chess move to start dissolving a marriage.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

You didn't rape her. She is using guilt against you to control you. This isn't uncommon (the guilt part --- not the rape blame). Say you are high drive and want sex more than your spouse. If you ask for sex and your wife isn't the type to say no, instead they will say no afterwards with mental games and guilt. For instance, acting distant or in a bad mood, not really smiling or admitting she had fun (even if she orgasmed). It's almost as if they want to teach you a lesson and get control through your own guilt. 

The relationship/control tug of war. Some couples get past it, some break up over it, but it's in almost all relationships.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

This is survivable.

You should be having these discussions with your wife. That night, next day, the night of the next day, and every day thereafter until you both have fully processed the full ranger of mixed up confused emotions around it.

Get your wife to talk. Do not defend yourself, just hear what she has to say. Reflect back what she says, listen for the emotions behind her words. The purpose is for her to get everything out and to BE HEARD!

You do the same.

In something like this, there is no right or wrong. There is only perception and it can only be perception because you two aren't talking it out.

Go talk to your wife!


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I don't think that you raped your wife. Rape is a terrible violation of a person. If she had felt you had raped her, she would not have stayed in the house with you afterwards. She would be terrified to be alone with you unless she was self abusive.

Your marriage is in serious trouble, but you know that and are trying to take some steps. 

Sex in marriage does many things, including bonding two people into one. That is how it is designed to work. Foreplay and arousal stimulates the production of all kinds of hormones and orgasm releases others that provide pleasure, a sense of trust and bonding. It is a combination of emotional closeness and chemical attraction.

Remember that you can not change your wife for the better, only she can do that. You can, however, change yourself and that can require her to change how she treats you.

My suggestion would be to talk to your wife and try to schedule on a calendar nights/mornings when the two of you will have sex. Ask the marriage counselor to help you if you have one at the moment. If she says no to scheduling, ask why (listen and don't get angry) and thank her for her feedback. Having regular sex should help the two of you feel closer.

Ask her what it is that she wants to experience from you as an alpha male? Again, listen, don't get angry and thank her. 

My wife at times says she wants alpha, but for many things she doesn't.

For example, she use to say I want to go out to dinner, we can go to any restaurant you want. So I will think about it and say I want to go to an Indian Food restaurant or Mexican, or Italian and she will say that doesnt' sound good her and ask me to choose something else. 

Ultimately, I told her without getting angry that I was going to the restaurant I named, she could go anywhere she wanted, but I was never going to play that game again. She didn't like it, but she liked the new me.

Similarly, she finds it very exciting to be with me when I am really (obviously) aroused. She kind of feeds off my animalistic excitement at the time. That might be something your W is looking for. Mine at times likes to be in the arms of an obviously aroused man. As such part of our foreplay is to make sure that she feels my errection pressing against her.

On a few occasions, I have felt she is playing a game of tease and she has backed off. Rather than begging or getting upset, I have learned to just let go of her, maturbate in front of her and tell her good night. Again the key is not to get angry or be "baited" into an argument.

The point is there is something that she wants, and part of it is both being able to control you and not being able to control you. The sex therapist we had ,described my wife as sometimes adopting a juvenile attitude and wanting me to become the parent in the relationship, sort of like a teenager challenging authority or holding their breath until they turn blue.

I strongly recommend Glover's book, No More Mr. Nice Guy for you to read. It may help you.

Good luck to you.


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

Thanks for all of the advice from all of you! I really do sincerely appreciate it. Am hating this stage of life and our relationship. She's been very harsh with her words and blunt as well. She says I have too, and I admit in times of anger and hurt I've said much regrettable things in the moment which I wish I never said. On the other hand I never called her names nor said she was stupid for feeling a certain way,, I've never said that I think she's got mental illnesses. I pointed out things I think that she should want to work on with her therapist like being able to talk to me, her self esteem issues and such but nothing seemingly horrible like her telling me I might be bipolar, that my moods are everywhere and too hard for her to deal with, a top of suggesting I raped her. I really am at the point where I feel like nothing I say or do goes any further than being flung back in my face. Then she says over and over that she doesn't want me to leave, and I'm not a horrible person. I feel like at times I'm living in the twilight zone and she's directing or that it's a lesser dramatic version minus death etc of "gone girl".


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

code74 said:


> ...I admit in times of anger and hurt *I've said much regrettable things* in the moment which I wish I never said.
> 
> ....I pointed out things I think that she should want to work on with her therapist like being able to talk to me, her self esteem issues and such but *nothing seemingly horrible like her telling me I might be bipolar, that my moods are everywhere and too hard for her to deal with, a top of suggesting I raped her*.
> 
> ...*I really am at the point where I feel like nothing I say or do goes any further than being flung back in my face.* Then she says over and over that she doesn't want me to leave, and I'm not a horrible person...


Have you apologized to your wife for the things you said that have hurt her and for the things that you don't feel were wrong, but that still hurt her? 

You are very angry with your wife. You need to work through that, before you can forgive her. If you want your marriage to continue you need to find a way to forgive her and give her the love she needs and she needs to forgive you so she can give you the love you need. Drop your anger and apologize as first steps. Then work on giving her love and emotional support. Hopefully over time, she will forgive you.


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

I think I've overly apologized and no matter what I say or do, I'm wrong. Have been really trying to just give her her space, but even then I can tell she's upset by. If I don't and just sit beside her, say nothing and maybe hold her hand or whatever she seems upset. I'm really feeling damned either way.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Reading the books offered here is a very good way to wrap your heads around some of your issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## seattle_stranger (Nov 4, 2014)

I'm sorry, but your wife sounds bat **** crazy. Why you are desperately trying to make this work is beyond me.

This may sound really harsh, but it's the raw truth. You need to man up, bro. Stop being her little slave. The ONE time you took control she bugged the **** out, even though that's what she was asking for. Is she into drugs? Honest question, because that's what it sounds like. People who use meth act like this.

I'm really sorry for your situation man. Whatever it takes, GET OUT and GROW SOME.


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

conan... I started reading the one you suggested earlier. Actually the author reads it to you...lol Am seeing what you mean though.

seattle... I grew up in a family that regardless of how tough it "seemingly" got family was family and always stuck together. That and with my 8yr. old son, it's a bit tough to muster up the need to walk out without giving every option I have first to make things work. I've had my "bat shyt crazy" moments as well...like I personally felt I was going nuts..not trying to make someone else get there (that seems to be the difference). No drugs involved with exception to her antidepressant stuff...which only seems to make her borderline zombie like...which is also not at all helpful when you're talking about emotions and feelings.


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## justfabulous (Feb 9, 2014)

This absolutely was not rape. I think she is trying to manipulate you. 

She told you repeatedly she wanted an alpha male. She implied she wanted to be dominated. She said that your loving, caring approach to sex wasn't a turn on at all to her. You finally took a more dominant approach, she participated by helping to take off her clothes. Then 6 weeks later she now claims to have felt all victimized and implies she felt raped. Claims to have felt violated and dirty. I don't think so. Sounds to me like that's something she cooked up over time. 

Was she crying that night as you had sex with her? Struggling to get away from you? Was she fighting you off? Screaming 'no' through the whole thing? Did she even once say, "Get the fvck off of me"?

That subsequent night when she wanted you to get back into bed, she knew how to _order_ you to do so. So, did she demand you stop or get off of her the night she now claims to have felt raped? She very clearly knows how to let you know when she's serious about something she wants from you, so she would have known how to make it very clear she was serious about wanting you stop that night. Unless you just completely eliminated that from the story, she did no such thing.

To me this was nothing more than a spouse allowing their partner to have sex with them when they didn't want it; that's not rape if a wife goes along with it, regardless of how unenthusiastically. Every night, women in bedrooms across America lie there rather "lifelessly" while their partners have sex with them; this forum is filled with men complaining of that very thing. That isn't rape. I'm not saying it makes for a fulfilling encounter, but its not rape.

Her claim (6 weeks after the fact) that she felt so dirty and violated afterwards that she cried, showered and douched seems rather mellow dramatic and manipulative given the circumstances. This was not a violent attack as you describe it - you were attempting to give her what she continually told you she wanted and she, in fact, participated by taking off her clothes. She could have ended it at any time by forcefully telling you she wanted you to stop. This is not the kind of scenario that leaves a woman feeling violated and dirty, needing to shower, cry and douche. Assuming it really went down as you say.

I think she has cooked this up because she wants other sexual partners, perhaps wants out of the marriage all together, so she has concocted some make believe wrong doing on your part, turned herself into a victim and claims you've damaged her, so she can justify telling you she never wants sex with you again. 

Sorry to be so blunt, but I think you're being played. Speaking as a woman, its not adding up (assuming things really went down as you describe). If indeed she genuinely felt violated, dirty, victimized and raped following this incident with her husband, she would appear to be highly unbalanced.

If you are entering her, or in her, and she is seriously telling you no, that's rape. However, if a woman helps her husband remove her clothes, then lies there unenthusiastically as he does his thing, but at no point tells him to stop or puts up any struggle, its plainly manipulative if she later cries rape.


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

Thanks. I knew she wasn't into it that not cause she just laid there other than when she helped remove clothes. And by no means would I EVER even consider forcing myself on someone. I think the difficult part is that I felt like I was attempting to be something I'm most definitely not and she felt that along with not wanting sex to begin with. She has mentioned that it felt like someone else was in the bed that night. I prefer never to do that again personally. I know trying new things etc can be fun in the bedroom and we have. There's a line though and that was out of my comfort zone and she felt that. Which I get. 6weeks later crying and telling me she felt raped does feel manipulative and like making me be the bad guy. Then she doesn't realize why I'm stepping back and feeling hurt, upset and some anger about the entire thing. Like there is a light switch to turn off what she told me. On the same token, she claims she can't handle my moodiness and that I have mood swings that are like a roller coaster ride. I agree that I'm moody and if I'm upset, hurt or angry that tends to show without me saying a word. I get that's hard to deal with and I try to put those feelings aside and make the best out of the day. But by no means am I bipolar or super happy then in an instant super pissy or reverse. 
It does really feel like a movie or the twilight zone what has been going on, very surreal at times and I'm getting worn down by her state of limbo and not knowing if she feels like she really wants to work our issues out and continue this marriage or if she just wants out. It's been a year since limbo began in her head and there still is no foreseeable end, good or bad..


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

code74 said:


> Thanks. I knew she wasn't into it that not cause she just laid there other than when she helped remove clothes. And by no means would I EVER even consider forcing myself on someone. I think the difficult part is that I felt like I was attempting to be something I'm most definitely not and she felt that along with not wanting sex to begin with. She has mentioned that it felt like someone else was in the bed that night. I prefer never to do that again personally. I know trying new things etc can be fun in the bedroom and we have. There's a line though and that was out of my comfort zone and she felt that. Which I get. 6weeks later crying and telling me she felt raped does feel manipulative and like making me be the bad guy. Then she doesn't realize why I'm stepping back and feeling hurt, upset and some anger about the entire thing. Like there is a light switch to turn off what she told me. On the same token, she claims she can't handle my moodiness and that I have mood swings that are like a roller coaster ride. I agree that I'm moody and if I'm upset, hurt or angry that tends to show without me saying a word. I get that's hard to deal with and I try to put those feelings aside and make the best out of the day. But by no means am I bipolar or super happy then in an instant super pissy or reverse.
> It does really feel like a movie or the twilight zone what has been going on, very surreal at times and I'm getting worn down by her state of limbo and not knowing if she feels like she really wants to work our issues out and continue this marriage or if she just wants out. It's been a year since limbo began in her head and there still is no foreseeable end, good or bad..


To throw a monkey wrench into this...

Legally, not rape. But it felt like a violation to your wife. And it is those feelings you need to address without minimizing, excusing or counter blaming.

What conversations have you two had about that incident? Have you actually apologized? You can't hope to get past this without fully addressing and forensically processing everything going on in your minds.

I suggest you both write your own individual stories of that night. Your stories of that night should be only about what YOU felt, what you understood, what you decided, what you feared, what you wanted, how you felt when it was over. No blame, not pointing fingers. You just write what happened and how you felt. 

Then you trade papers and slowly slowly gently discuss it. Not for too long. Take a break of a day or so between discussing it. Set the timer for 10 minutes for each of you to read your story to the other and then 10 minutes to discuss just that one version.

You may never agree on what exactly happened, but you can agree that the feelings of that event are real and need to be addressed, soothed and agreements made for the future.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

justfabulous said:


> This absolutely was not rape. I think she is trying to manipulate you.
> 
> She told you repeatedly she wanted an alpha male. She implied she wanted to be dominated. She said that your loving, caring approach to sex wasn't a turn on at all to her. You finally took a more dominant approach, she participated by helping to take off her clothes. Then 6 weeks later she now claims to have felt all victimized and implies she felt raped. Claims to have felt violated and dirty. I don't think so. Sounds to me like that's something she cooked up over time.
> 
> ...


You know, this has to be one of the most insensitive things I've read in a while here in SIM.

I know you mean well, but you are quite wrong on a number of counts.


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## justfabulous (Feb 9, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> You know, this has to be one of the most insensitive things I've read in a while here in SIM. I know you mean well, but you are quite wrong on a number of counts.


Your opinion is noted. However, I stand by mine. As a woman, rape is not something I take lightly. Nor do I take lightly when someone makes the suggestion of rape or feeling sexually violated as a manipulation maneuver. Which is what this appears like to me. It is merely my opinion, based on what the OP has related. 

I am the daughter of a woman who was raped. My mother now has advanced dementia, and every time either I, or her hired caretakers, need to remove her trousers to change her incontinence pad, she is terrified, believing that she is being violated all over again. So as her primary caregiver, I get to live with the repercussions of rape on an almost daily basis, some 40 years after the fact. Believe me, I understand the lasting damage caused by rape. So please don't imply that I am insensitive to those who have been sexually violated because that is far from accurate.

My mother was raped by my father when I was under the age of 4. I witnessed it, unknown to him, as he forcibly pinned her down and would not stop despite her protestations, until I ultimately threw myself on top of him, pulling at him to get off her, crying "Daddy! Daddy! Leave mommy alone". At 4, I didn't fully understand what he was doing to mommy. As I got older, I did. Its a painful thing to remember, because my dad was actually a really good, kind and gentle guy, and he will forever be "Daddy" to me. But when I remember that night, I find it shameful that my dad could do that to my mom.

Looking at the context of a situation is obviously important. Without knowing the context, or under a different context, I agree my comments could appear insensitive. But context is everything. And given the full context and all of the details the OP conveyed, I believe my thoughts are valid. That doesn't mean I am assuredly right. But I think they are valid enough considerations. 

In this case, the OPs wife repeatedly told him that his loving approach to sex was not what she was into, that she wanted an Alpha male, wanted to feel dominated, to have sex just for sex without the love, and that she therefore was contemplating other partners and considering leaving the marriage. Meanwhile she continued to have sex with him. So he tries to step into a more dominating role trying to be more like what he thinks she wants, she participates by helping him remove her clothes, never tells him to stop, and then later says she felt victimized and violated by him? Not only does it just not add up, but from my perspective, this is an insult to women who truly have experienced what it is to be violated. 

She has a strong personality and based on details related by the OP she has demonstrated she knows how to give him a command, demand or order regarding what she does or does not want regarding sex. She did not do that during the incident in question. She could have told him to stop. If she had done so and he continued, that would be an entirely different matter. But that's not what occurred. So again, to then claim she feels victimized or violated in this situation doesn't compute and is, from my perspective, an insult to women who truly have experienced what it is to be violated.


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

She did not say stop. She did say no twice prior to me beginning to remove her clothes and as soon as I began to do that she began to help. I have apologized and actually feel I'm struggling with this just as much as she is. I've brought it up numerous times not at all taking it lightly. Quite honestly if I ever did "rape" someone I would kill myself without thought just considering to do that kind of act. So to actually be told that I even remotely resembled that act makes me feel like a more than horrible person!


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I don't think anyone is doubting your intention was not to rape but that there sometimes is a grey area. that grey area can sometimes be light grey or dark grey. I don't think so far a single poster is suggesting that you did actually rape her. I fully think you thought you were doing the right thing. Only that maybe in her mind (maybe) that she felt coerced or overpowered.

I think what is being debated here is about perceptions and feelings at that moment, and her own intentions.

I think Anons suggestion that you each write and then discuss could be very helpful. however if the conjecture that she is manipulative is correct, it could backfire and she could manipulate you further. You know your wife best. Go forward with both eyes wide open.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

JF, I appreciate your experiences. I'm so sorry for what you witnessed in your past and what you're going through with your mother. My mother died in sept after declining in dementia for about 10 years. The last two she spent the majority of the day lost in night mare delusions of rape and animal torture. After the nursing home completed the first rape kit, which was JUST as traumatizing to her as her delusions, we decided not to do anymore and to instead prohibit all male staff from her care.

I'm not going to go into a credibility match with you. I know what I know and that's all I'll say.

The issue here is the wife's perception and the wife's potential level of manipulation. Is she being intentionally manipulative? Could be. But if she was, I would think she would start with the violation accusations the next day, not weeks later.

The scenario she described she wanted is a common thing. It's called Consentual Nonconsent. When engaging in this, a safe word must be used to halt all action and both participants must agree when to use it. Should they use it only when they can't tolerate what is happening anymore, or before that, when things feel not right. Doing a consentual nonconsent scene is fraught with danger some of which cannot be anticipated. Which is why talking everything out before and after is essential.

This was the mistake they both made. She had an idea in her head of how it would go and how she would feel. She didn't anticipate reality. She should have communicated her ideas better. She should have been very clear on what it was she wanted, straight up intense domination that looked like angry sex? Or intense emotional passion in which both love and domination can be felt?

What happened was a tragic event that left them both shocked and traumatized. Assessing blame and flinging accusations makes it so much worse.

What they need to do now is process all the emotions of that event and move forward with better understanding of what each one wants and expects.

ETA: I've just Reread all of OP's comments.

OP: your wife is a very confused woman and in desperate need of therapy. 

You're emotional and she reads your emotions and tries to anticipate the right way to balance them. The second night she turned you away and left the room and she called you back to have sex. That was not what she wanted. She didn't want sex, she wanted you to stay with her without the pressure or need for sex but when you walked away you rejected her because you felt rejected. You two know each other so well in some respects but know nothing in other respects.

Put all of this on hold until you each get into therapy. No more sex until you each have processed both of those nights, and any others in which she consented to having sex even though she didn't really want sex. You've got to undo the pattern of your emotional outbursts causing her to relent to sex to keep you by her side.

The question of affairs and dating others....you two are NOT handling this midlife correction very well at all!


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

First and foremost, you DID NOT rape your wife. You need to have knowledge that your wife did not consent or you reasonably knew that she wouldn't consent. Rape involves forceful penetration without consent.

Your wife seems confused. Very confused. To me, it seems that she is questioning your marriage and wondering what life would be like with another man; rather than you. In other words, she got *caught* sending dirty pictures to another man because you were to busy being social with a group of people, rather than her. But in retrospect, as you said, she was basically pushing you out the door, which only means that she wanted to chat with other men. When she got caught, she guilted you and then you both tried seeing other people, so she could continue to talk to her internet fling without being labeled a 'cheater.'

Your wife wants to be manhandled her when you attempt to, she feels disrespected. Unfortunately, (and this is my personal opinion) she wants to be manhandled.. just not by you. 

There is only so much you can do. If you want to keep the marriage alive, I wish you all the luck but your marriage has clearly gone outside of its boundaries. It's going to take work to get things back on track again. If it's worth it to you, then suit up.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> I don't think anyone is doubting your intention was not to rape but that there sometimes is a grey area. that grey area can sometimes be light grey or dark grey. I don't think so far a single poster is suggesting that you did actually rape her. I fully think you thought you were doing the right thing. Only that maybe in her mind (maybe) that she felt coerced or overpowered.


There is no grey area involving rape. Her subjective thought process means squat. Of course, any woman who claims 'rape' is going to say "I felt blah blah blah;" therefore, this guy goes down for her made up subjective thoughts? If that was the case, 90% of men would be rapists.

Rape involves an act and a thought process by the rapist. The rapist has to have knowledge of no consent or he should have known she wouldn't consent. There is nothing that suggests any of this. (1) They are married; (2) she suggested she wants a more alpha type male in the bedroom; (3) they were snuggling in bed; (4) she denied him twice; (5) on third attempt, she went along with it and help removed her clothes; (6) then they had marital sex where he felt that it wasn't. 

Now, on that third attempt, had he removed her clothes as she pleaded no and tried to get him off of her, even though he was trying to be Alpha, then rape comes into play UNLESS the marital exception still applies wherever he lives.


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm sorry to hear stories in this thread about someone actually being raped. In my mind it's worse than just killing someone, which is why I've taken this very much to heart and have trouble letting it go. You all have most definitely helped relieve some of my emotions on the entire thing quite a bit and I appreciate that. I agree, we both need to see therapist and we are. We've been stuck in this "limbo" for over a year (not by my choice). I even went as far at one point when we were seeing a marriage therapist to say that I was done with the limbo and it was time to move on one way or another. She asked what I meant by that and I simply said, that I wanted to work on our marriage 100%. That I would do whatever the therapist suggested, that I would openly talk to her (my wife), that whatever it took to try to make things better, I would do. I then said, if you're still not sure what you want to do and it's been over a year, then maybe you need to be unsure somewhere else. Hours after that conversation she said, "you are right. either i've tried or you've tried but we haven't tried together at the same time. so I'll give it 100%" Two days later we had a therapy session and she told the therapist the same thing. The therapist started giving us things to try, homework, writing things down, etc. None of which did my wife do, leaving me feeling like "this is 100%?" Our last therapy session with the marriage therapist my wife says, she's still uncertain what she wants as far as to work things out or not. That's 3 months of therapy saying she would give it her all only to fall back into "limbo" yet again. Then the entire "rape" thing came about a few days later after that. And now she's saying, "lets try dating again... no expectations, no deep conversations...just having fun, being ourselves, etc." That was then followed by a list of things not to do if we go on said date. I thought there were "no expectations and us being ourselves" now there are set rules as to what can and cannot be discussed, how i need to act, etc. Then she appears "surprised" when I tell her that we'll see about the "date" thing because I was a bit blown away by what she had just said. I'm constantly getting mixed signals and to be quite honest, if this was a new fresh relationship, no child involved, no ring on my finger, no history, never having had the fun that we did or been their for each other thru so much, I would hightail it out of there with the red flags being thrown off. But that's not the case and I know why I love her and why I fell in love with her, and she still has that person in her. Just wish she would come to some kind of decision and participate whether it be working on or not. Physically, mentally and emotionally I'm breaking down and this is all effecting our son indirectly as well...which is not good at all. Thankfully, he still doesn't know what is going on..but for how much longer before he does?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sometimes, indecision is the decision. It is the decision not to decide. It is the passive avoidant way of saying no.

Therapy, the begin plans to split until, her actions match the words that tell you she is trying.

You jumping through hoops and making a fool of yourself. Stop all of it. Be still. Watch.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

This is one of those sad situations where your wife gave you a bunch of signals that she wanted somebody else and you did the human rational thing and tried to hold on to her. 

But that (or should I say you) are not what she wants.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Haven't read this whole thread but wanted to reply to the op. I've heard the same words from my wife about never wanting sex - I said to her one time 'I feel as though if I didn't make the effort we'd never have sex'. Her response '(pause)...probably'. I'll never forget that. It would be the equivalent of me saying 'I don't love you but I'll stick around for your convenience'. Point is that it is way more f'd up what she has done to you verses your brief display of alpha-ness. Most people here who are between a rock and a hard place at least know that they are not to blame. You however are beating yourself up - I feel like a weenie for sticking around but I certainly know that while sticking around I'm not holding myself responsible for the dysfunction - sorry if anyone disagrees but it ain't my fault. Boy if I could put a camera here and broadcast to the world the dynamic of living with someone who doesn't work, cook, clean, do laundry, has a maid and has mastered the limiting of personal responsibility to the absolute bare minimum - it's madness - don't let it make you crazy. Look at it in perspective, you essentially been told that you are repulsing her - she's the one who needs to make a decision and get out. Stories like this make my blood boil !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

You didn't rape her. She didn't push you off, she didn't fight you, she just sort of laid there "lifeless" as you put it.

That's not rape. That's more like "she wasn't into it but didn't try to stop you".


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Sometimes, indecision is the decision. It is the decision not to decide. It is the passive avoidant way of saying no.
> 
> Therapy, the begin plans to split until, her actions match the words that tell you she is trying.
> 
> You jumping through hoops and making a fool of yourself. Stop all of it. Be still. Watch.



Thanks.... That's extremely difficult for me to be still, especially after over a year of this limbo crap, but I think you've nailed it..


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## code74 (Mar 15, 2015)

KendalMintcake said:


> Haven't read this whole thread but wanted to reply to the op. I've heard the same words from my wife about never wanting sex - I said to her one time 'I feel as though if I didn't make the effort we'd never have sex'. Her response '(pause)...probably'. I'll never forget that. It would be the equivalent of me saying 'I don't love you but I'll stick around for your convenience'. Point is that it is way more f'd up what she has done to you verses your brief display of alpha-ness. Most people here who are between a rock and a hard place at least know that they are not to blame. You however are beating yourself up - I feel like a weenie for sticking around but I certainly know that while sticking around I'm not holding myself responsible for the dysfunction - sorry if anyone disagrees but it ain't my fault. Boy if I could put a camera here and broadcast to the world the dynamic of living with someone who doesn't work, cook, clean, do laundry, has a maid and has mastered the limiting of personal responsibility to the absolute bare minimum - it's madness - don't let it make you crazy. Look at it in perspective, you essentially been told that you are repulsing her - she's the one who needs to make a decision and get out. Stories like this make my blood boil !
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Thanks for showing that you understand and care. All of you and for someone that you don't even know. It sincerely means a lot and is appreciated. No one said life was easy. And it's funny because when you get over confident and think you've figured it out, that things couldn't get any harder, and have managed to somehow get thru it all perfectly fine that things suddenly rear up like this to prove you haven't been through everything but people like yourselves help to know you're not alone, that there is hope regardless of the outcome and I'll be fine. We all will.


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