# What is happening to marriages?



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

What do you think is happening to so many marriages these days? 

It seems like people are either quick to throw in the towel, or remain in bad marriages with little or no work done, or maybe one tries and the other doesn't. Maybe thats part of it, no one wants to put forth any real effort to keep a marriage going and strong, so they either go through the motions to stay or, they leave? 

Is it easier to just leave or not do anything? Thoughts?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I think that there is a social crisis of entitlement in the USA. (Not speaking for any other culture because I just don't know.) We feel entitled to cheap gas, jobs created for us, SUVs that pollute the earth, McFood that makes us fat. 

And Cinderella happily ever after.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> I think that there is a social crisis of entitlement in the USA. (Not speaking for any other culture because I just don't know.) We feel entitled to cheap gas, jobs created for us, SUVs that pollute the earth, McFood that makes us fat.
> 
> And Cinderella happily ever after.


Does sound like laziness!


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Walking out, or not doing the work, is easier for people, they like it like that, but yet can still complain the relationship isn't working and not understand why. 

IMO, anything you want, doesn't always come easy. If people feel something is to much work, then they shouldn't be in a situation that requires them to do any.


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## Undertheradar (May 11, 2011)

To easy to find a potential replacement.
Facebook, Texting, social media, makes it too easy to "cyber date" a potential partner, while the other is inside watch TV.

Men and woman are getting back the old feelings from old flames, simply by seeing images on FB, and chatting. All of a sudden, they want out.

I just witnessed two friends lose their wives to FB "friends". These guys go on a hunt for old girlfriends, the husbands are at work.
Boom! There goes the marriage.

No FB, I'd bet these woman would still be with their husbands.
It's just too easy.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

I do think these networking/social sites such a FB etc make it easier, however, those people who meet and hook up with people over these sites, usually have issues within the marriage first, but yes some of those sites make it easier. 

And even if there was no FB doesn't mean the people in the marriages are any happier or have any less issues. They may work on them, and they may not.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I think a lot of interpersonal dysfunction is built into generations of family dysfunction that may trace all the way back to our puritanical unwarm, unhealthy interpersonal history.

What we see today is that many people were brought up with punish / reward discipline systems. We did not (well I did because my dad was naturally intuitive about a lot of this stuff) learn by modelling and family meetings and role playing how to work THROUGH interpersonal conflict. You hit jimmy? Wrong act. Punish. A lot of us did not get the run down of what DO you do when Jimmy calls you a scumbag and you get angry? How do you correctly handle anger? ... (Obviously one overly simple example to make a point.)

Add to that that what we expect from marriage now a days is different than what it used to mean. For many, it may have started out about love. But very often it was a financial and property issue. You STAY married because you have to. And it is what is expected.

So the parents were likely not modelling GOOD interpersonal problem solving.

No wonder we don't know how to solve our problems.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I am not going to blame FB individually but I do wonder about the affects of technology some times. (And I work in IT )

There are too many places to escape to now. Between social sites, internet porn, DVRs, video games, iPods. We don't have to face our problems anymore. Back in the day you pretty much had each other and the kids.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> I think a lot of interpersonal dysfunction is built into generations of family dysfunction that may trace all the way back to our puritanical unwarm, unhealthy interpersonal history.
> 
> What we see today is that many people were brought up with punish / reward discipline systems. We did not (well I did because my dad was naturally intuitive about a lot of this stuff) learn by modelling and family meetings and role playing how to work THROUGH interpersonal conflict. You hit jimmy? Wrong act. Punish. A lot of us did not get the run down of what DO you do when Jimmy calls you a scumbag and you get angry? How do you correctly handle anger? ... (Obviously one overly simple example to make a point.)
> 
> ...


:iagree: :smthumbup:


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Marriages involve people.

People are human beings with weaknesses and faults.

You're bound to have trouble.

Think about it - you put two people together that were raised with different morals, standards, discipline and entitlements. You then expect them to agree on everything, love each other unconditionally, ignore the faults and be the perfect husband or wife.

Ain't gonna happen.

The other side of the coin is that they are so "in love" (or "in lust" as I like to call it), that they don't really understand commitment or what "death do us part" really means. 

Marriage, to our parents and grandparents was a life-time commitment.

Marriage today is a temporary situation until you find someone better or until you're fed up.

With our society today, everything is fast, quick, without effort and temporary until the next big gadget or release comes out.

People are viewing relationships (and child-rearing for that matter) in the same view.

Like said above - too many avenues to escape your issues, instead of work on them.


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## TemperToo (Apr 23, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> I think a lot of interpersonal dysfunction is built into generations of family dysfunction that may trace all the way back to our puritanical unwarm, unhealthy interpersonal history.
> 
> What we see today is that many people were brought up with punish / reward discipline systems. We did not (well I did because my dad was naturally intuitive about a lot of this stuff) learn by modelling and family meetings and role playing how to work THROUGH interpersonal conflict. You hit jimmy? Wrong act. Punish. A lot of us did not get the run down of what DO you do when Jimmy calls you a scumbag and you get angry? How do you correctly handle anger? ... (Obviously one overly simple example to make a point.)
> 
> ...


Double ditto.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Women had fewer options 50 or 30 years ago. Same shipwrecked marriages now as before. You just hear about the consequences now. Also I think it's an affect of affluence. People don't have serious things to worry about any more. My grandparents were running from the SS and KGB. Their parents were running from the Cossacks. We on the other hand are ready to commit homicide when a barrista screws up that latte.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I agree with Runs. The problems have always been there but women had less options so you didn't hear about it. They stuck it out because they had to. And there are more people now so it's a numbers game.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I'll committ psychology blasphemy and suggest that when we began to focus on "me" and our entitlement culture, marriages go along for the ride. We're saying that for me to be happy, my spouse must accept me completely as I am. The whole relationship thingy seems like so much work.

Sadly, in the past, people were considered to be bad when they did bad things. Now, we're told that its bad to think that something is bad. And the only thing that is really bad, according to our political leaders, is if you are good enough in your job to be paid well.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

Yes. we are too much of an 'entitlement' culture. Romantic comedies or movies like 'eat pray love' etc. encourage women to abandon their perfectly decent husbands because suddenly they decide they deserve better. Men are encouraged to get in touch with their feminine sides and be sensitive, less manly, and thus less attractive to their wives. 

Sex is reduced to a game, a means of control, a way to sell blue jeans, or a conquest to be pursued rather than a mutual expression of love and the EXTREMELY necessary glue that holds a marriage together.


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

Undertheradar said:


> To easy to find a potential replacement.
> Facebook, Texting, social media, makes it too easy to "cyber date" a potential partner, while the other is inside watch TV.
> 
> Men and woman are getting back the old feelings from old flames, simply by seeing images on FB, and chatting. All of a sudden, they want out.
> ...




I can partially agree that things like FB can be a problem, but IMHO, they are not the root cause. Anyone can come up with any justification, as humans are the ultimate rationalizing animal (lol). No, if the potential for infidelity was there, then FB and the like are merely methods...Sort of like someone who causes a car accident when they are drunk and blaming the Ford they were driving.
Whatever the excuse, the root cause is the person who chooses to be unfaithful. Personally, I have gotten to the point in my life, that if I caught my wife in an EA/PA she would be cordially invited to leave my house and life to be with her new beau, and that would free me up to be with someone who wanted to be with me.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Women had fewer options 50 or 30 years ago. Same shipwrecked marriages now as before. You just hear about the consequences now. Also I think it's an affect of affluence. People don't have serious things to worry about any more. My grandparents were running from the SS and KGB. Their parents were running from the Cossacks. We on the other hand are ready to commit homicide when a barrista screws up that latte.


:iagree:

No internet, marriage sites, blogs, FB and e-mails to "spread the news" about how miserable they were.

But now, you can let everyone know.

Maybe things haven't really changed - just that it's easier to let everyone know.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> :iagree:
> 
> No internet, marriage sites, blogs, FB and e-mails to "spread the news" about how miserable they were.
> 
> ...


No access to jobs, education...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

mr.miketastic said:


> I can partially agree that things like FB can be a problem, but IMHO, they are not the root cause. Anyone can come up with any justification, as humans are the ultimate rationalizing animal (lol). No, if the potential for infidelity was there, then FB and the like are merely methods...Sort of like someone who causes a car accident when they are drunk and blaming the Ford they were driving.
> Whatever the excuse, the root cause is the person who chooses to be unfaithful. Personally, I have gotten to the point in my life, that if I caught my wife in an EA/PA she would be cordially invited to leave my house and life to be with her new beau, and that would free me up to be with someone who wanted to be with me.


Actually - to be honest here.

I (just me) believe that ANYONE and EVERYONE has the potential to cheat if given the right circumstances.

The advent of FB, MySpace, e-mails, and other sites have just allowed contact with other men/women to be easier and sneakier.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> No access to jobs, education...


True, can't argue that.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Actually - to be honest here.
> 
> I (just me) believe that ANYONE and EVERYONE has the potential to cheat if given the right circumstances.


THAT would make an interesting debate all of its own because BOY do I so not believe that.


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> THAT would make an interesting debate all of its own because BOY do I so not believe that.


I agree. I think it's entirely possible for someone to easily resist getting into an EA or PA situation, regardless of whatever enabling websites are out there. Infidelity has been around way longer than the internet. Using the transportation theme of analogies again...
Humans used to walk, and get around fairly well that way until other methods were adapted such as riding horse, then trains, cars and aircraft. Yes, the successive adaptations broadened the horizons, so to speak, but ultimately it all came down to travel and those who were _willing to undertake the journey_. I believe it's the same way with cheating. Yes methods have made it easier, but it still comes down to who is willing to go down that road, and those who do not.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> THAT would make an interesting debate all of its own because BOY do I so not believe that.


Maybe time for it's own thread!


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## cherokee96red (Apr 23, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Actually - to be honest here.
> 
> I (just me) believe that ANYONE and EVERYONE has the potential to cheat if given the right circumstances.


I so disagree with that! But then maybe, in 25 years, the "right circumstances" were never presented to me, ever. Gee, what have I missed?


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

I think it's a perfect storm of many of these things, actually.

1. These are the first few generations to marry out of "love" and choice rather than need or economics--the former being much more fleeting than the latter.

2. We have so much more time to think about whether we're "in love" or "happy" or "satisfied" or "fulfilled". As busy and stressful as we think our lives may be, they are basically busy sitting on our butts. Not so many generations ago, "busy" was manual labor during pretty much all the daylight hours.

3. Spouses of both sexes need each other less. Women don't have the financial dependence on men that they had in earlier days, but too, men don't have the need for a housewife and mother to their children in the home. It used to be just as common for men to repeatedly marry out of need for someone to run the home as it was for women to marry for financial support.

4. We're all super-connected. While this certainly makes access to infidelity easier, I'd also put forth that it makes knowledge of infidelity, etc. easier. Whereas before you could just toss a phone bill or credit card statement, now it's all online. Social networking, texting, all of that, puts everyone in everybody's business making it easier to know about the cheating, spending, drinking, whatever it is that's going on. It also creates an increased lack of privacy--we're used to sharing everything now. Every trip to the bathroom is a Twitter update...much less the most fleeting annoyance with your spouse.

It's a little bit of all these things, I'd say....


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## WomanScorned (May 8, 2011)

Good question. I think it's too easy to get a divorce in the US. Heck, all my now-ex had to do was go online and print out the paperwork, fill it out, sign it with a notary, and presto! Instant divorce. Unless there is abuse, I think a couple ought to be required to work with a mediator or counselor for so many sessions (especially if there are kids involved) before a divorce will be granted. 

His parents were divorced, then married/divorced multiple times each, mine should have been divorced but stayed in a loveless marriage for 35 years tearing each other apart the whole time. What does either one of us know about working out a marriage? He was taught to run away without trying to work on it. I was taught that it was my lot in life to stay married. History repeats itself, unfortunately. My dad blamed my mother for everything he couldn't do or be. Now my ex is doing the same thing to me. We gravitate to what we know.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I asked my mother who has been married to my dad almost forty years now this question...and she says its because the world is too fast now and nobody wants to put up with anybody and nobody tolerates anything anymore. As for myself--I am very recently divorced and seriously doubt I would ever do it again. Never say never I know...but I'm not sure its something I want anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

WomanScorned said:


> Good question. I think it's too easy to get a divorce in the US.


It is not too easy to get DIVORCED. It is too easy to get MARRIED. Usually that is where the error lies.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ I totally agree.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Just read the posts here and look at the reasons given for leaving. He/she doesn't spend time with me, doens't pay attention to me, we don't "connetct" anymore, he doesn't do it for me anymore, and on and on. 

It is a sign of the times. People are brought up in the self esteem culture and as soon as it isn't "good" for them, they are out, kids and vows be damned. This is proped up by the culture, academia and the court system to inlclude the evil of no fault divorce. The media also pushing a divorce fairytale. 

Another big part of the problem is people are getting married so much later, after having MULTIPLE sexual partners. This prohibits a chemical bond that occurs when sex happens. Just look at all the posts about people reconnecting with their high school flames via facebook. 

It is only going to get worse.


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## skitterend (May 29, 2011)

We got married at 21, 29yrs ago. At 21 you don't have any idea about what it entails. We knew we had a baby on the way, sort of loved each other (were very good friends) and no money, little education. Stats at the time for our age group predicted 50% failure within 5 yrs.
We figured, half the world gets by on arranged marriages and a lot of them succeed well. So it must be an expectation of it is going to be hard work and getting to know and respect each other.

Divorce was not an option, walk out never allowed and if it ever happened, there would be no coming backs. If either of us lifted a hand against the other, same story. It all worked out to a life currently of sheer bliss. 
You have to respect, discuss, and focus on positive aspects in your partner. Some personality changes are slower than others, in time both personalities will get to a good fit. I am not a strong believer in love at first sight as I didn't experience that. I do know that love grows if you work at the positive angles first.

So the "me" first I agree is bad for relationships. Relationships require a lot of effort from both parties. When you've put in the time it can be absolutely phenomenal. No instant fix it's. Sorry


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

COGypsy said:


> I think it's a perfect storm of many of these things, actually.
> 
> 1. These are the first few generations to marry out of "love" and choice rather than need or economics--the former being much more fleeting than the latter.
> 
> ...


I think you made a lot of good points, as did others. 

When I was a teen, I would hear on talk shows and such about how real life is not going to be like a romantic move, but I think a lot of people today expect that. I think everyone, too, is looking for the fairytale marriage. The moment things get a little dull, they're looking for something fresh.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Locard said:


> Just read the posts here and look at the reasons given for leaving. He/she doesn't spend time with me, doens't pay attention to me, we don't "connetct" anymore, he doesn't do it for me anymore, and on and on.
> 
> It is a sign of the times. People are brought up in the self esteem culture and as soon as it isn't "good" for them, they are out, kids and vows be damned.


Mistaken self esteem culture. The last thing that most folks have now is true self esteem. The have smoke and sunshine blown up their butt cheeks for the most part.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

i dont think its any different today than yesteryear...its just talked about more now, like its not a big secret...back in the day if you divorced, you were shutout of the group...

nobody wanted you around their men...and if a guy was divorced, well im not a guy so i cant speak on how it was different...but from watching mad men, when you get divorced you better re-marry right away, and now its like, you dont have to marry to be happy or to fit in in society.

plus..you know 40 is the new 20..lol. i also think that now, you would be willing to believe the hype about being single, and living life to the fullest, you forget misery loves company..

husband said: his views on it was, you were seen as weak, like if you couldnt keep you wife happy, women are simple creatures, you couldnt handle that...than you dont deserve that promotion, and you start hitting the bottle, possibly..

and you were looked down upon for being a good for nothing.

what a difference time makes on the sexes..


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I asked my mother who has been married to my dad almost forty years now this question...and she says its because the world is too fast now and nobody wants to put up with anybody and nobody tolerates anything anymore. As for myself--I am very recently divorced and seriously doubt I would ever do it again. Never say never I know...but I'm not sure its something I want anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You put it well; nobody tolerates anything anymore. I think people used to give it a lot of work, and it never crossed their mind that if things got a little boring they might divorce. 

I am recently divorced too and doubt I'll ever do it again. I don't see how I could trust anyone again. I wouldn't want to take the chance of accidentally grilling her steak medium well when she asked for well done; in today's society, a couple of those could lead to divorce!


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## hypatia (May 30, 2011)

> 3. Spouses of both sexes need each other less. Women don't have the financial dependence on men that they had in earlier days, but too, men don't have the need for a housewife and mother to their children in the home. It used to be just as common for men to repeatedly marry out of need for someone to run the home as it was for women to marry for financial support.


I agree, but I would add the flipside to this: there is less job security for _everybody_ across the board. 

In the good old days, a man could start at a company and spend his entire working life there. And when he reached retirement age, he could count on being taken care of by his pension.

Nowadays? Corporations buy each other out left and right. They ship jobs overseas, or undercut the domestic workforce by exploiting illegal immigrants. People who have spent their entire lives putting into a retirement fund can see it wiped out by a corporate merger. And that's if you're lucky enough to make it to retirement age before getting laid off, downsized or made redundant. Put simply, workers are regarded as disposable nowadays.

Even the best of marriages can take a hit when one spouse is fired or laid off. This is particularly true when it's the male provider of the household, who sometimes feels like he's "failed" his family. It's really tragic because often it's the men who are most committed to being good providers who feel this most deeply. Even though a job loss is completely not their fault. This can lead to all kinds of complications within a marriage: maybe the wife feels extra pressure to bring home her paycheck, and takes that stress out on the husband. Maybe the husband reads his wife's stress as a further reminder of his "failure" and reacts badly. Maybe the husband doesn't want to take up household duties because he already feels emasculated by the loss of his job. Maybe the wife grows resentful that she has to be the breadwinner AND homemaker. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's automatically bad to rearrange the traditional breadwinner/homemaker gender roles in a household. I'm of the "whatever works for you" school of thought. But when a couple's roles are rearranged suddenly and tumultuously due to something like a job loss, it can be really destructive to the marriage even if both husband and wife are basically good people.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

I think part of it to is, some people know they need to do their part in the marriage, but they wait to to see if the other one will do their part first. Kind of like if, you go first then I will mentality. What happens in that kind of situation when you wait on the other person to see what they are going to do, no one ever goes first, therefore nothing ever gets accomplished and they are still stuck where they always were.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

The reason we have such high divorce rates is because socially it's ok now to divorce.

I also find it funny how people always call marriage work. Its not easy but it shouldn't be a pain in the ass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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