# Need help with my response...



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

After almost a month of my wife not contacting me and refusing to meet (only contact was to arrange me seeing kids) she has made contact!

Now, she has been forced to slightly because we are supposed to all be attending our kids sports awards night on Saturday and my eldest made it clear that she wouldn't be going because "that would be weird.....you haven't spoken to dad in a month so I dont want to be there when you finally do"

Anyway...had this email:
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Hi

Do you think we should meet for a coffee before sat? If not, what is
your plan? Are you coming with us or meeting us there?

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How do I respond??????

Right now I want her to try at our relationship or say "I 100% dont want to be with you" in which case I will get on with my life (starting with a divorce)


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis,

No meeting necessary.

See you there.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Lewis,
> 
> No meeting necessary.
> 
> See you there.


Lol, knew you'd say that! 

But.... Dont I want a meeting? Whether to talk about how to "try" or talk about moving to divorce..... But certainly moving away from this dumb limbo land we are in now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> Lol, knew you'd say that!
> 
> But.... Dont I want a meeting? Whether to talk about how to "try" or talk about moving to divorce..... But certainly moving away from this dumb limbo land we are in now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you show her you want the meeting, it won't go well.

Make her ask.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Lewis1973 said:


> But.... Dont I want a meeting? Whether to talk about how to "try" or talk about moving to divorce..... But certainly moving away from this dumb limbo land we are in now.


Why do you think your wife wants to meet? do you think that she actually wants to have an honest conversation about any of that or do you think that she just wants to be able to say to the kids that she met you?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Voltaire said:


> Why do you think your wife wants to meet? do you think that she actually wants to have an honest conversation about any of that or do you think that she just wants to be able to say to the kids that she met you?


Smoke her out.

It's starting to work.

Don't fold now.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> Why do you think your wife wants to meet? do you think that she actually wants to have an honest conversation about any of that or do you think that she just wants to be able to say to the kids that she met you?



80% I expect its to keep the kids happy...but if I'm wrong isnt that a problem? Me saying "no" to the meeting is shuting the door in the face of her efforts isnt it? (if the 20% chance she is genuine is right)


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> 80% I expect its to keep the kids happy...but if I'm wrong isnt that a problem? Me saying "no" to the meeting is shuting the door in the face of her efforts isnt it? (if the 20% chance she is genuine is right)


Nope.

You saying no simply means that she's fishing and you're not taking the bait.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

ok......and then what?

What if I go another month with no word from her?

When do I say enough is enough and start pushing some of her "wake up and smell the coffee buttons"

RIght now I pay her a VERY good income, she has the house, kids, car.......I wonder if she thinks this is what single life is? I'm not sure she has ANY idea what it will be like when I pull out of supporting her?

I DONT mean I'm going to not look after my family.....I mean they are all living a lifestyle that is unaltered from before. I still see the online banking accounts. In the last few days she has spent hundreads on a new hair do......hair straightners.....gifts for the kids - I dont mind, but I wonder if she knew thats NOT what divorced life is like she might get her thinking head on quicker.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis,

It has to be her idea.

If she finds you "eager" to mend fences, those fences become devalued to her.

You have to live by the law of the jungle, or you will perish by it.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Lewis,
> 
> It has to be her idea.
> 
> ...


Ok...so my fear - that she DOES want a meet (she did say, weeks ago, that we should meet in a few weeks) is not something I should worry about?

At the back....lol....well, the front of my mind - is that she is NOW ready to meet, it fits nicely with the upcoming event....and I chuck it in her face at a time when she's already annoyed at me (a little.....I heard from my eldest that she moaned I got a new car! No mention that she has my house, kids, money and her own new car!)


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

oh....and how long do I go before making her realise she is in limbo land???


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> Ok...so my fear - that she DOES want a meet (she did say, weeks ago, that we should meet in a few weeks) is not something I should worry about?
> 
> At the back....lol....well, the front of my mind - is that she is NOW ready to meet, it fits nicely with the upcoming event....and I chuck it in her face at a time when she's already annoyed at me (a little.....I heard from my eldest that she moaned I got a new car! No mention that she has my house, kids, money and her own new car!)


From 50,000 feet, does it sound like she's in the mood for a productive discussion?

Or is she looking for the victim chair?


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

ok....agree.

But what about the "Lifestyle issue"

Does the fact everything is VERY comfy work against me?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> ok....agree.
> 
> But what about the "Lifestyle issue"
> 
> Does the fact everything is VERY comfy work against me?


Yes, I would work at reducing your subsidies to her pronto.

Do not be paying her to leave you.

It's not possible to "nice" her out of this.

You have to get that in your head.

She will respond positively to strength.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

ok.....but that requires discussion with her.

RIght now, the big issue is that she is co-owner of my business (for tax reasons)

This means we get equal income (though she does no work - or very little....2/3hrs a week)

So...my accountant has said I can get her to resign and just pay her a dividend from the business that I control and is not linked to my earnings. RIght now....if I have a good month, she picks up half and that is WAY over what she'd be getting if we split.

This requires her aggrement - she cant really say no because I'd just set up a new company and leave the one she owns with me worthless......but it does need a meeting to discuss with her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lewis1973 said:


> ---------------
> Hi
> 
> Do you think we should meet for a coffee before sat? If not, what is
> ...


Response...

No meeting needed this week.

We could meet next week to discuss where we are going from here. How about Wednesday at 5PM?


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Response...
> 
> No meeting needed this week.
> 
> We could meet next week to discuss where we are going from here. How about Wednesday at 5PM?


Ok.....would this variation on that work....

I say "no meet, I'll see you there" today and then follow up later in the week with "are you available to discuss where we go from here next wed at 5pm"

Thus giving her a few days to come back to my "no meet" response with a "are you sure" type request???


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> ok.....but that requires discussion with her.
> 
> RIght now, the big issue is that she is co-owner of my business (for tax reasons)
> 
> ...


Go ahead and set up the new company first.

Do not telegraph your punches.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Go ahead and set up the new company first.
> 
> Do not telegraph your punches.


Two issues...do I want to punch her? and if this works out setting up a new company will have been a huge waste of money and time.

Is a "hey, we need to chat about how I'm going to punch you" not as good as an actual punch?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> Two issues...do I want to punch her? and if this works out setting up a new company will have been a huge waste of money and time.
> 
> Is a "hey, we need to chat about how I'm going to punch you" not as good as an actual punch?


I'm missing something.

Did you read the line where I said "women respond to strength"?


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

lol.....but she will feel like I am trying to cut her out off the business and react with anger and suspicion (i expect) - is that good?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> lol.....but she will feel like I am trying to cut her out off the business and react with anger and suspicion (i expect) - is that good?


She needs to stare over the cliff.

Right now, she's too comfortable in fantasyland.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

ok.

But the simplest way to go with this is that she resigns from the company. Can I not just email her saying she needs to do this.

In fact, I could just copy her in to the emails from the accountant - I have a feeling she'll be shocked I've even got as far as talking to him about it


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> ok.
> 
> But the simplest way to go with this is that she resigns from the company. Can I not just email her saying she needs to do this.
> 
> In fact, I could just copy her in to the emails from the accountant - I have a feeling she'll be shocked I've even got as far as talking to him about it


Do not just email her with a request.

Once you have your cards in a row, TELL her to do it.

When she refuses, take the action yourself.

You keep talking about "simple"

What about this do you expect to be simple?


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

ok.

email sent about this sat - as per your first response!

and accountant getting forms ready for her to resign and hand over company to me.

He said its easy enough to reverse in the future.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> ok.
> 
> email sent about this sat - as per your first response!
> 
> ...


That's called strength.

Then you cut her off.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I assume if she starts trying to get a meeting with me, and is genuine....I agree?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> I assume if she starts trying to get a meeting with me, and is genuine....I agree?


Of course

But, not if she's just fishing and looking to make sure you are still her dependable Plan B.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

ok....and if I dont bite at the first dangle of the bait (which this email MAY have been) - she wont pack up and stop fishing?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> ok....and if I dont bite at the first dangle of the bait (which this email MAY have been) - she wont pack up and stop fishing?


Not when she hears about your plans with the business.

Strength=attractive to women.

Strength=proceeding forward, with or without them.

Perhaps I should illustrate:

A motorcycle rider steams into town and pulls up at a bungalow, he knocks on the door. A beautiful woman answers. He says, "I'm here to sweep the most beautiful woman in the world off her feet and live happily ever after"

She politely shuts the door and laughs

Same guy steams into town and she's outside. He yells to her that he's in town to ride away with the most beautiful woman and make a life with her.

She reponds... wait! and joins the other 12 women running after him.

Lewis,

Sincerely... realize that you have much more value than you currently recognize.

And, act like it.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Lewis,

I have to agree with Conrad.

She has had no contact with you in over a month and yet you continue to support her as if you were still together.

After a month I would be reaching out to her and telling her "We need to meet to discuss the untangling of this union and discuss mutual debts and assets"

Maybe that would make her sit up and take notice that the gravy train as she knows it will be ending soon.

Sorry but the new expensive hairdo and clothes are not a good sign. She's getting ready to put herself on the market again if she hasn't already


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Toffer said:


> Sorry but the new expensive hairdo and clothes are not a good sign. She's getting ready to put herself on the market again if she hasn't already


Watch what they do - not what they say.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Well here's the response from her.....

I replied with:

"no meeting necessary, I'll see you guys there"

Her:

"Okay. Outside or inside"

Me:

"inside"

Her:

"You appear to be being sharp"

I also made sure there was a good few hours between each response from me.

SO...how do I respond to that?

Do I just ignore it? Do I ignore it and go with the "I've met with the accountant, explained we are separated and here's what we need to do" email....or shall I leave that and let her stew?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

No response necessary.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I agree.

When do I send the "I've spoken with the accountant" email?


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## catcalls (Oct 31, 2012)

hey lewis

you are getting some excellent advice from the experts on TAM. it seems that your main focus is what she does and what she will think. your focus needs to be you. i am just going to enumerate my response to keep me drifting off into a long essay.

1] how long will you be ok to be in limbo? ie how long are you willing to wait before she decides she is taking you back or she is divorcing you. 6 months, a year, 2 years. perhaps you can think about this timeline.

2] it is obvious how valuable you are to your family as a devoted husband, dad and provider. what does she offer? what does she bring to the table?

3] you are the catch here. she is the alcoholic mum with a few kids in tow. 

4] you need to be angry at her for breaking up your family. are you happy for your kids to live with a mum who is alcoholic. how can you monitor her drinking or do you just take her word for it that she is not drinking.

5] you should get her off your company payroll.

6] you should visit an attorney to see how much you need to give her every month in child support and living allowance and give her that much

7] even if you dont want to, you should consider selling your house where she is living comfortably or aim to move there yourself and push her to a smaller apartment

8] she needs to learn the realities of her decision and what happens during a divorce.

9] stop thinking that she is special, you have put her on a pedestal and are thinking that she is the prize when in reality she has been a poor wife to you.

10] as conrad says, you need to keep your communication to a minimum and even then it should be about the kids and financial matters. she has dismissed you as a husband and so she should not get the husbandly comfort you provide.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I hear you!


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I am drafting the "accountant email" and will send it tomorrow. I'll let her stew tonight.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Going to send this tomorrow...tried to keep it simple but also firm - without being "horrible". I was trying to get across.....I care but this has to happen.

I fear she will either respond with "ok, if thats what you want" or "I'm off to see a lawyer you scum bag"


Oh.....and XXX in the email is the firm I do 99% of my work for......I mentioned it because she has said in the past (when drunk) that she would stop me getting her out the business - I wanted to make the point, if she trys I'll just go self employed and get monies re-directed leaving her owning half a company with no income source!

---------------

Hi

I met with Michael (accountant) yesterday and explained we have separated and asked for his advice going forward.

He understands we both want what is most efficient and allows for the ongoing payment of monies to provide for you and the children as a priority.

His first suggestion was that I set up as self employed and simply have XXX make payment to my new, sole trader, account. This gives you a clean break but is not most efficient. The alternative is that you resign from the Ltd Co. and he creates a new class of shares for you to hold in the business.

The advantage of this is that you can still receive dividends and they will be fixed and regular with no link to the ones I receive.

The disadvantage is that dividends are treated as "income" when you go to claim tax credits (or, if you get a job, working tax credits) Thus you will receive lower benefits.

The alternative is that I pay you from my own income, this is "maintenance payments" and not regarded as income - meaning you get 100% of the tax credits you claim for. Of course, it means I need to draw a much higher salary and will pay a large amount of tax.

Michael suggest the dividend option because the tax saving to me is far greater than the reduction you will see in benefits. Obviously, this is a saving I will pass onto you so it is something you gain from.

I have spent a great deal of time going over these sums and also spoke with HMRC. I would happily go through all the numbers and options with you so you are 100% comfortable with how we move forward.

Once this is done we can then look with more clarity at the remaining issues of the house and completion of divorce paperwork to obtain a clean break once your, and the children's, future has been provided for in a way everyone is happy with.

Michael is away for a few days but will draw up the paperwork in due course. If you have anything you wish to discuss, please let me know.

Of course, we do need to agree on a date where you no longer need to work for the company and discuss my picking up all the tasks you currently do.


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## catcalls (Oct 31, 2012)

hi lewis, 
ah you are in the UK. same here
good steps in the right direction.
I still think you are thinking too much about what she thinks and how she will react. your aim should be to do stuff and not talk about doing it.

why not send her an email stating simply that you want her to resign from the business as it makes it easier to sort out the financial affairs. just one sentence nothing more.

then she will either a] not respond, b]respond with curiosity about why you want her to do so or c] get annoyed and think you are ripping her off.

in the case of b] or c], you then say again in a couple of sentences that since you are separated you need to sort out the finances and this is the most efficient way suggested by your accountant. After that she either agrees or stalls again. if she agrees well and good. If she does not then dont waste time convincing her and proceed with your plan to start a new company. dont have to explain that to her. just pay her the mandatory amount as per the law. This is what you would do if she does not respond at all.

does not matter what she thinks, either way once you have given her the chance to resign and she does not, you follow your accountant's advice and set up a new company. dont have to explain that to her. sure you take a hit with the tax returns but she is not your wife (in any real sense) so you are a single man and that is the tax you will pay.

meet your attorney get the divorce papers ready. pay her the minimum and get your assets valued like your house. work as though you are getting divorced. 

All these things will either impel her to get further angry and push for divorce or she will scramble back after realising how much she is losing and try to win you back.

then comes the question as to whether you want her back and will you be happy to continue living as you did before with her. I assume you were the placating husband and she was the demanding wife. will you be happy if it remains the same or will you hold her to a higher standard of behaviour and values. 

What you dont seem to realise is that you are the powerful one and you are the one who really has control of this marriage. you have ceded to her and have believed for so long that she is the one in control. if you wake up you will realise that you have the power all along. sure you cant force her to be your wife but you can control her destructive behaviour by merely standing strong and standing up for your rights.

Hence you have to be strong enough to follow through. that is why i ask how long will you wait before she decides how to proceed? when does your patience end? Are you willing to spend months/years living away from your children waiting for her to decide. you should seriously consider getting custody of your children based on her alcoholism and force her to go and get a job. you will be doing her a big favour by making her go out of her comfort zone and facing some harsh realities. Sure all this will make her mad, but are you scared of her or are you ready to do t-he right thing for yourself, your children and ultimately even for your wife.

By taking control of the situation you regain some confidence and dont feel helpless anymore. you force her to examine her motives and choices and you come across as strong and demanding, which is no bad thing for dealing with a weak woman.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I like the idea of keeping it short and sweet.

If we did get back...she'd have to change, of course......but so would I - I was a sucky husband. Not a bad husband, but I was selfish for a long time. SHe raised the kids while I worked and played.....sure, I made money - but she'd rather I spent proper time with her than brought her nice stuff.

SHe would regularly go to events/friends weddings/whatever without me because "it wasnt my thing".....I genuinely let her down and would love the chance to do it again...right.

WIth regards the custody....she is not drinking right now (my 17 yr old girl is keeping an eye out) she is hitting the gym, trying to "fix" herself. She isnt getting hair jobs to date....she's doing it because she feels rubbish and doesnt want to.

SHe is (and even when drunk) always was a good mum. I have no need to take custody and it would create more problems than it solves.

There was a moment when I was about to leave when I thought of making her go.....I looked on the wall at all the photos of her and the kids.....at the hundreads of events she had taken them to (school fairs, trips to the park, etc) where I had not bothered to go.....and realised, she deserved a chance to get better with her kids around her.


I should add......she was drunk! for 3 year, 2 bad.....that wasnt my fault - no matter what she said. I dont mean to suggest I was rubbish and she was wonder wife - simply that we both screwed up, and both need to realise that and improve if we had a second go at it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lewis1973 said:


> There was a moment when I was about to leave when I thought of making her go.....I looked on the wall at all the photos of her and the kids.....at the hundreads of events she had taken them to (school fairs, trips to the park, etc) where I had not bothered to go.....and realised, she deserved a chance to get better with her kids around her.


And the word for that is codependent thinking.

Here's the thing.... your strength is the thing missing from the relationship. If she has your STRENGTH to lean on, she may actually heal and get her life together.

If she has your supine accommodating weakness? Kiss her goodbye.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Well....interesting day.

Sent a VERY much shorter version of my "I've seen the accountant" email.

Quick response from here...went like this:

"You seem to have changed rapidly from last weeks conversation. Is there any reason for this?"

Me - "If you mean when I phoned, we didn't mention the business."

"no I am referring to you wanting to chat every few days and remain friends and to try and get along. Your attitude seems to have changed. I hope the presentation evening will be okay. "

I ignored, 1 hr later.....

"Are you going to explain your change?"

At this point I called her to avoid a long email back and forth....but no answer. Then she texts to say "I'm in the shops, I'll call you when I'm out"

I ignored and just emailed:

"tried to call, no answer. Anyway, no change. All fine"

And nothing since.

Seeing a lawyer tomorrow.


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## catcalls (Oct 31, 2012)

you dont have to explain to her. just be brief. dont call for no reason. do reply to why emails. she has given you you up as a husband and if she wants answers she needs to step up as a wife.

if she demands answers when you meet tell her there is nothing to say, as you are no longer husband and wife. then shut up. stay sch tum. she might just wonder or get annoyed or might even act upset. 

but all her actions have shown you that she wants you as a doormat at her beck and call. you are the ATM and nothing more.

But the moment you withdraw a bit, she is pulling you back again.

As conrad says you have to be strong and appear strong, that strength might draw her and help her too.

by appearing too weak or too available to her, you dont let her see you as a strong confident man. if she still loves you, it will draw her back. if she does not love you, then it will tell her that you mean business and will not let her walk all over you.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Ok..... She emailed. "I was in the shops when you called. Glad all is well" 

So what next? The temptation to keep in letting her know things are changing is strong.... But I don't want to over do it. 

I am tempted to ask her to meet tomorrow after I have met the lawyer to discuss the results of that. I imagine the very fact I am going to a lawyer will freak her out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

in fact, she is welcome to join me at the meeting. They offer a mediation service where they act for both parties and that is how I'd like to do things. My wife won't want a legal battle, nor do I.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Lewis1973 said:


> in fact, she is welcome to join me at the meeting. They offer a mediation service where they act for both parties and that is how I'd like to do things. My wife won't want a legal battle, nor do I.


Go to the lawyer first

Then tell her you have been

Then offer mediation to work through your differences. 

She should not come to a meeting with your solicitors - they act for you.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Make sense.

So once I've been, call her - tell her and ask if she wishes to discuss the mediation option as a way forward?


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Lewis1973 said:


> Make sense.
> 
> So once I've been, call her - tell her and ask if she wishes to discuss the mediation option as a way forward?


That's what I would do.

You talk about wanting to show her you have changed. This is a golden opportunity. Just act, then tell her. You need to be an Action Man - someone who takes action rather than endlessly talking. That is what she is used to and disrespects. 

I'm sure your solicitor will have some leaflets (or a page on their website) about mediation. You can give those to her.


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## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Just called lawyer and they said the same! They will talk through my options and give me leaflets on mediation.

I'll then call and say:

"Hi, I meet with a family law solicitor this morning. Because we want to keep things amicable she suggested we use their mediation service. When is it convenient for us to meet and talk through what that entails."


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