# Work Wives/Opposite Sex Friendships



## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Hi all,

I'm generally not an insecure or jealous person, but I'm certainly frustrated by how much I've been feeling that way lately, and I need another's view on my situation. (tl;dr below!)

I've been with my husband 10 years, and we've been married since 2012. In 2008, I caught him in two online emotional affairs (and sought support here!) and since forgiven him and moved on, and although I want to say it's forgotten, I've never quite been able to do so. 

Since then, I like to think that we've had a pretty good life. We've worked together to help him drop a lot of excess weight, and he started a new job a year ago. He's a good guy. He wants everyone around him to be happy, and more specifically, happy with him, and I think this is where my issues begin. 

He's made several female friends at work, and opposite gender friendships have never really been a problem for me despite his EAs. He has many female friends that he met pre-me and pre-marriage that he sees fairly regularly in groups or alone. I suspect the difference and the trouble I'm having is that these work friends are post me and post marriage. They have only every known him as a married man, but these three women don't seem to have any concept of boundaries, even though they all have significant others.

It began with heavy, and I mean NONSTOP Facebook messaging and texting, in group chats and alone. Having been neglected for online chatting before, but wishing to trust him and his friendships based on our past, I asked him to please cut back so it didn't interfere with our personal time. I'm happy to say the frequency has lessened, although my sense of unease (jealously? insecurity?) has not, and each one of them has given been a different cause for it. 

Woman A: 

He has described her as 'another me' in that we have the same tastes and personality and that he has never had such great and close friend as her. He can tell her anything, feels so comfortable with her, and on and on and on. She obviously feels as close because she had no problem calling my husband at 3am to discuss her relationship problems. I only discovered this because I went to the kitchen for some water and discovered him whispering into the phone under a sofa cushion, and that was the reason he volunteered. Again wishing to trust him, I left it at that. 

As a birthday gift, she gave him tickets to a sports event for them to go by themselves. Admittedly I don't have a problem when a guy friend did this for him, but I don't really see many accepted examples of a woman going on a 'date' with a married man. This did make me very uncomfortable, and was expressed to him, and he offered not to go. I swallowed my unease, not wishing to be a jealous spouse, and let it happen. The whole time I was wondering why he couldn't be bothered to send me a text to say how it was going or anything when he can't stop himself from texting others when we're together. (Jealousy again?)

They are going on a business trip together for 4 days, and that itself doesn't bother me. Husband planned to go for a small solo road trip afterwards for the weekend to check out some baseball stadiums, and she tried to invite herself to the road trip. That was my limit, and that I put a hard stop to, and I was bewildered that he would even bother to ask me if it was ok to do the trip with her. That she has no concept of boundaries is established already, but him? Yikes.

Throughout these incidences, over and over again on a smaller scale I would discover or am told at the last minute that they made plans together to have lunch or go to the mall or see movies together which has overall just added to my paranoia. To be fair to him, I work shifts, and I'm not always around evenings and weekends, but the need to hide things from me or tell me last minute seems kind of sketchy.

Woman B:

This one overtly has a crush on him and likes to physically be around and close to him, as noted by his other colleagues. As with A, she is comfortable going to my husband about her relationship problems which then he feels he should solve, because of his need to be a good guy that everyone likes.

Woman C:

Also is having issues with her boyfriend, and with some suicidal tendencies layered on. She is definitely dependent on my husband for help with her problems, and he even told me he was 'on-call' for her some evenings because she was having a particularly bad day. 

But....I am his wife. I frankly don't care about whatever problems they have, and I don't appreciate being put on hold while he deals with other women's issues that have nothing to do with him. Why do they even think they can be dependant like that on a married man? Probably because he let them think it's okay.

I've told him I felt lonely and neglected and there's been a little improvement, but I still feel lonely and neglected much of the time. It's like when he's at home, his body is here but his mind is elsewhere. I definitely don't appreciate the solo time he spends with Woman A doing things he should be doing with me but never seems to find the inclination to. 

It's funny. This seems to be a bigger issue when I write it out than when I was just thinking about it in my head. I've talked to him about how I feel about opposite sex friends and boundaries, but I don't really think he understands. He swears over and over again it's just friendship. That in turn makes me wonder at myself - am I too suspicious? Should I trust him more? Is it even my place to say who can or can't be friends with? He says if it really bothers me that much he will cut them out, but am I scared of being resented if I did ask for that?

What do you think? Am I just being insecure and jealous? Do I trust my gut, which tells me I am right, but at the same time makes me doubt myself? How do I proceed? 

tl;dr - husband has close friendships with female friends at work that edge on inappropriate. I want to trust him and think I'm being jealous and insecure, but gut feelings being what they are, I don't know what I should do.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

I would not be comfortable with any of these friendships. They do not "edge" on being inappropriate- they are completely inappropriate.

Your husband has horrific boundaries. 

How old are you two, and do you have any kids?


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm just curious, because I'm not familiar with the defining factors of an Emotional affair. So, what are the defining characteristics of an emotional affair and how are they different than this?


Okay....I just read these...and

HOLY CRAYOLAS!!!!

And I'm not sure, but these all sound like emotional affairs. If nothing else, they're having emotional affairs with your husband? Being on call to aide them and give them advice on relationship issues? He's hiding under a pillow and whispering advice in the middle of the night? (That sounds highly suspicious). Even if it wasn't JUST that, Girl A is inviting him to a sports game? As a Birthday gift??

Yeah, this is definitely too much involvement. My idea of a Work friend would be someone you may talk/chat to on occasion, maybe share a lunch of an occasional joke. Any off-work activities with members of the opposite sex, unless accompanied by the spouse (like a company picnic with your spouse and other colleagues) seems highly inappropriate--I mean, he's basically dating these woman (IMHO), especially GIRL A.

P.s. I'm serious, I'd never heard of it before..I thought EA meant, external affair, lol. So I'm asking for both myself and the OP.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

So, OP, how's that whole 'your husband, who has a history of infidelity, is multi-dating several women from work while actively gaslighting you about it' thing working for you? 

Dear, your husband is the poster-boy for Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome. 

Yes, he's being completely inappropriate. Yes, his lady friends are being completely inappropriate. Yes, this _entire situation _is completely inappropriate. Why do you want to be married to a man with boundaries this bad? Why do you want to be married to someone who has a vested interest in helping you to maintain that sick pit-of-your-stomach feeling that comes from not trusting yourself to recognize blatant (and it really is very blatant) disrespect from your partner?


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

RoseAglow said:


> I would not be comfortable with any of these friendships. They do not "edge" on being inappropriate- they are completely inappropriate.
> 
> Your husband has horrific boundaries.
> 
> How old are you two, and do you have any kids?


We're both in our late twenties, no kids, and don't plan on it for the next couple of years. 

I've been thinking I'm crazy because he says he's friends with them, and friends go out and talk about things, so on that level I think I deluded myself into seeing it as acceptable. I don't have problems if he does it with his guy friends or the women friends he's had since high school, and so I guess I though this was ok too and I was being jealous and grasping.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Rowan said:


> So, OP, how's that whole 'your husband, who has a history of infidelity, is multi-dating several women from work while actively gaslighting you about it' thing working for you?
> 
> Dear, your husband is the poster-boy for Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome.
> 
> Yes, he's being completely inappropriate. Yes, his lady friends are being completely inappropriate. Yes, this _entire situation _is completely inappropriate. Why do you want to be married to a man with boundaries this bad? Why do you want to be married to someone who has a vested interest in helping you to maintain that sick pit-of-your-stomach feeling that comes from not trusting yourself to recognize blatant (and it really is very blatant) disrespect from your partner?


I love him - he's been my partner and companion for a decade and on the whole, it's been a good time and we've trusted each other. This has been a very recent development in our relationship, and I want to believe him when he says up and down there's nothing happening.

After I shared my insecurities about this situation, he's offered to cut everything off. The trouble I have is that I don't want to be that woman, that wife who tells him who he can or can't interact with. I don't want to put him in that place where he has to cut things off with his friends and make it awkward for him at work. I can't bear for him to resent me if I did ask him. It's possibly, probably, gotten to a point where I think I have to ask him to do it. 

But thank you, thank you, thank you! for validating my feelings. At least I know I'm not crazy.


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## Marnie (Sep 5, 2014)

The fact that Woman A called him at 3am AND bought tix to an event for just her and your hubby is downright ridiculous. If I were Woman A I would be terrified at the thought of ever crossing your path.

I'd state my thoughts and then make myself scarce if I were you. It sounds like he needs to be needed--by more than just one woman. No one has to put up with that crap in a marriage. Remember there are plenty of men you could be with who don't behave like that--or even close. There are lots of men who could make you really, deeply happy.

I will say, though, that my DH has a few "work wives". It used to bother me, but I've gotten to know them and don't think any are a threat. One of them he even went on an island weekend with, between work conferences in nearby cities abroad. I was p.i.s.s.e.d and it caused a rift between us, BUT I myself have gone to business trips in foreign countries with my male coworker once or twice a few days early to sight-see, and I didn't ask DH first. I even had a minor crush on the coworker, but I'm way too loyal to ever let anything bad happen.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

I am generally okay that you can have friends of the opposite sex and discuss things that are of mutual interest that your spouse may not be interested in, but the examples above cross the line.

Your husband is having affairs.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Whispering under a sofa cushion to another woman at 3am is not a friendship

There's an awful lot you say 'doesn't bother' you...it bothers me and I'm not even married to the guy

He's being disrespectful and in your desperate need not to appear jealous you're letting him get away with it. He may be a 'nice guy' to everyone else but he's treating you like sh*t

Put a stop to it immediately or walk away


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

miss_moneypenny said:


> I love him - he's been my partner and companion for a decade and on the whole, it's been a good time and we've trusted each other. This has been a very recent development in our relationship, and I want to believe him when he says up and down there's nothing happening.
> 
> After I shared my insecurities about this situation, he's offered to cut everything off. The trouble I have is that I don't want to be that woman, that wife who tells him who he can or can't interact with. I don't want to put him in that place where he has to cut things off with his friends and make it awkward for him at work. I can't bear for him to resent me if I did ask him. It's possibly, probably, gotten to a point where I think I have to ask him to do it.
> 
> But thank you, thank you, thank you! for validating my feelings. At least I know I'm not crazy.



But you CAN tell him you don't want him to hang out with women who physically attracted to him, buy him tickets/want to take road trips with him, and have borderline suicidal tendencies and need serious help. He shouldn't be on call for these women. If it was just a brief conversation or bit of advice at work he was offering to help women in need, maybe that would be okay. But being on call and everything else about these situations seems, again, very inappropriate. IF he volunteers to stop doing this, I Would take him up on that offer and see how things develop from there.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Dollystanford said:


> Whispering under a sofa cushion to another woman at 3am is not a friendship
> 
> There's an awful lot you say 'doesn't bother' you...it bothers me and I'm not even married to the guy
> 
> ...


You're right, you're totally right, and I've needed someone to just say it to me. I've been afraid to stand up for myself because I didn't want to seem like the jealous wife.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

miss_moneypenny said:


> After I shared my insecurities about this situation, he's offered to cut everything off. The trouble I have is that *I don't want to be that woman*, that wife who tells him who he can or can't interact with.* I don't want to put him in that place *where he has to cut things off with his friends and make it awkward for him at work. *I can't bear for him to resent me if I did ask him*. It's possibly, probably, gotten to a point where I think I have to ask him to do it.


I'm going to strongly suggest you see someone - a therapist or counselor - to help you build up your self-esteem. What's happening here is that you're volunteering to be miserable - feeling sick, jealous, crazy, stressed, unhappy - so that he can have whatever he wants. You're agreeing to feel bad about yourself rather than asking your husband to meet your entirely reasonable needs. You're giving up your own boundaries so that he can live a life entirely free of reasonable boundaries of his own. It's like you've just decided that you don't matter as much as he does, you don't count. 

You need to work on yourself until you get to a point where you know that you are every bit as important as he is. You need to trust yourself and your own perceptions. You need to realize that if a man is asking you to choose (and yours is) between him and being able to love and trust and respect yourself, you need to pick you. Every time. Your needs matter. Your happiness matters.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

You are sharing your H. Needs to stop. Woman A is pretty much dating your H. Come on...tickets to the game for just the two of them and you let him go? Women B and C are just needy distractions to your marriage. They communication outside of work needs to stop. Get your big girl panties on and defend your marriage. Advise your H he is way out of line. Specifically with woman A.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

miss_moneypenny said:


> I love him - he's been my partner and companion for a decade and on the whole, it's been a good time and we've trusted each other. This has been a very recent development in our relationship, and I want to believe him when he says up and down there's nothing happening.
> 
> After I shared my insecurities about this situation, he's offered to cut everything off. *The trouble I have is that I don't want to be that woman, that wife who tells him who he can or can't interact with.* I don't want to put him in that place where he has to cut things off with his friends and make it awkward for him at work. I can't bear for him to resent me if I did ask him. It's possibly, probably, gotten to a point where I think I have to ask him to do it.
> 
> But thank you, thank you, thank you! for validating my feelings. At least I know I'm not crazy.


You have 3 choices here. One, be that wife. Two, be a betrayed wife (you're 80% there now, I wouldn't bet against a PA with A) or 3, be someone elses wife.

I recommend the first choice, but you really need to get him into MC.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> You are sharing your H. Needs to stop. Woman A is pretty much dating your H. Come on...tickets to the game for just the two of them and you let him go? Women B and C are just needy distractions to your marriage. They communication outside of work needs to stop. Get your big girl panties on and defend your marriage. Advise your H he is way out of line. Specifically with woman A.


Lol, I'll dig around for my bloomers.

Okay. I honestly, honestly thought I was being a big girl by being respectful of the friendships he wanted to have and by being a trusting, open wife and letting him go to the game. He took advantage of me and overstepped his boundaries. 

I had no idea I was being such a doormat. I didn't even think I had low self-esteem until now.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

There is a book he needs to read called "Not Just Friends"...

He needs to read it.

Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity: Shirley P. Glass, Jean Coppock Staeheli: 8601400437025: Amazon.com: Books


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Marnie said:


> The fact that Woman A called him at 3am AND bought tix to an event for just her and your hubby is downright ridiculous. If I were Woman A I would be terrified at the thought of ever crossing your path.


We've met at some work functions, and she showed with her boyfriend for those events. I have no read on her beyond the issues I'm having with husband and I don't really care to know her even though Husband says we should be friends, best best friends.

Egh. The more I type the more I can see how much I've been letting him walk all over me. I've definitely deluded myself into thinking this was a teeny tiny harmless matter.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

miss_moneypenny said:


> Lol, I'll dig around for my bloomers.
> 
> Okay. I honestly, honestly thought I was being a big girl by being respectful of the friendships he wanted to have and by being a trusting, open wife and letting him go to the game. He took advantage of me and overstepped his boundaries.
> 
> I had no idea I was being such a doormat. I didn't even think I had low self-esteem until now.


Never in a million years would I go to a game with a woman other than my W. I don't care how long I have known this OW. To me...it is just uncomfortable. To you H...it appears very very comfortable. He is over stepping the boundaries. The party is over. 

The way your H is acting you think his was a fraternity house.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

miss_moneypenny said:


> We've met at some work functions, and she showed with her boyfriend for those events. I have no read on her beyond the issues I'm having with husband and I don't really care to know her even though Husband says we should be friends, best best friends. *Yes..so when the inevitable occurs you will not feel so bad about it.  *
> 
> Egh. The more I type the more I can see how much I've been letting him walk all over me. I've definitely deluded myself into thinking this was a teeny tiny harmless matter.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

His behavior is extremely inappropriate and should concern you greatly. If you don't put a stop to it, you are very likely to be back here one of these days asking about divorce due to infidelity.

Actually, there are enough red flags already that I would dig around a bit and find out if he has actually crossed that line physically already. Don't be too surprised if you find out that he has.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

miss_moneypenny said:


> We've met at some work functions, and she showed with her boyfriend for those events. I have no read on her beyond the issues I'm having with husband and I don't really care to know her even though *Husband says we should be friends, best best friends*.
> 
> Egh. The more I type the more I can see how much I've been letting him walk all over me. I've definitely deluded myself into thinking this was a teeny tiny harmless matter.


Yeah, my husband though I should be great friends with his affair partner, too.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

miss_moneypenny said:


> In 2008, I caught him in two online emotional affairs (and sought support here!) and since forgiven him and moved on, and although I want to say it's forgotten, I've never quite been able to do so.
> 
> Woman A:
> 
> ...


Your husband had ZERO concept of boundaries. And this is all made worse by the fact that he had TWO emotional affairs years ago and is doing the samet hing again.

Movies? Tickets to sporting event alone? Taking calls at 3 a.m.? being "on call" for another woman cause she is having a "bad day." 

This keeps happening because he allows it and you tolerate it.

Tell him w hat's what.

He already knows it's wrong because he hides it. And seems to think you will stick around no matter how much he disrespects you.

Woman A wants your man. I seriously can't imagine chatting up some *married *dude at 3 a.m., inviting him on road trips, buying tix "just for us" to sporting events and inviting him to the movies with me. It's like they are dating and you are the other woman.

You're not paranoid/insecure/jealous. He has earned all of those feelings in you because he has a blatant disregard for your feelings, for boundaries, for your marriage. Another man would have shut this down a long time ago with these women. Instead, your husband invites it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

miss_moneypenny said:


> We're both in our late twenties, no kids, and don't plan on it for the next couple of years.


Do not, I repeat DO NOT have a baby. Use protection.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

miss_moneypenny said:


> You're right, you're totally right, and I've needed someone to just say it to me. I've been afraid to stand up for myself because I didn't want to seem like the jealous wife.


I wonder... why do you feel you are a "jealous wife" - has he told you are? Maybe he's telling you that and gaslighting you even further. So he makes you feel bad about how you feel when really he is the one with such sh*t behavior.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

technovelist said:


> His behavior is extremely inappropriate and should concern you greatly. If you don't put a stop to it, you are very likely to be back here one of these days asking about divorce due to infidelity.
> 
> Actually, there are enough red flags already that I would dig around a bit and find out if he has actually crossed that line physically already. Don't be too surprised if you find out that he has.


I strongly believe he hasn't crossed any physical lines. He simply doesn't have the guts. He's been known to cross emotional lines because it's a total ego boost for him and as another poster said he has the 'knight in shining armor syndrome', so he would't want to tarnish his image by having a physical affair with someone.

Partially I also think that although we're 28, most of our friends and the people we associate with are unmarried and/or slightly younger. Possibly they have no knowledge and therefore no respect for the institution of marriage, but that doesn't make all this any more acceptable to me.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

miss_moneypenny said:


> I strongly believe he hasn't crossed any physical lines. He simply doesn't have the guts. He's been known to cross emotional lines because it's a total ego boost for him and as another poster said he has the 'knight in shining armor syndrome', so he would't want to tarnish his image by having a physical affair with someone.
> 
> Partially I also think that although we're 28, most of our friends and the people we associate with are unmarried and/or slightly younger. Possibly they have no knowledge and therefore no respect for the institution of marriage, but that doesn't make all this any more acceptable to me.


ARGH why am I still making excuses for him??


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Do not, I repeat DO NOT have a baby. Use protection.


It's him who wants the kid in a few years, but that's another can of worms....


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Ewww, there are some similarities with this behavior and my H's during his EA. I almost divorced him over it. Had I not had over 20 years of decent marriage, kids and his willingness to change...I would be a single woman today. 

You have to put on your big girl panties and tell him to choose his wife or his girlfriend (yes, that's what A is). If he wants to act like a single man, he can do so as an officially single man. He has to know you are willing to walk away. 

Of course you're a jealous wife...he's dating another woman!!! At 3AM he should be in bed with you...not hiding phone calls. He should not be going on dates with her to games and whatnot. You are his wife. Not her.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> I wonder... why do you feel you are a "jealous wife" - has he told you are? Maybe he's telling you that and gaslighting you even further. So he makes you feel bad about how you feel when really he is the one with such sh*t behavior.



And to open up yet another can of worms....no, he has't accused me of being jealous. 

My mother caught my father having an affair when I was in my early teens, and throughout all her suspicious he would accuse her of being a jealous wife. I think that's where these feelings must come from, and also my insane need to let him do what he likes so he doesn't wind up having an affair. Therapy/counselling is starting to sound more and more mandatory....


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

miss_moneypenny said:


> Lol, I'll dig around for my bloomers.
> 
> Okay. I honestly, honestly thought I was being a big girl by being respectful of the friendships he wanted to have and by being a trusting, open wife and letting him go to the game. He took advantage of me and overstepped his boundaries.
> 
> I had no idea I was being such a doormat. I didn't even think I had low self-esteem until now.


The advice has been so good here, I just want to say that I think in his heart he knows that feeding of his neediness here is not considerate of you.

There is NO WAY you are "that woman" who is insecure.

I said on another thread that my wife would say I am not insecure but if she did some of the things your husband does here I would seem crazy insecure.

Be at peace with yourself and trust yourself.

If this is the NISA neediness, then that is HIS issue to address not yours.

I really wish you well.
Take care.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

miss_moneypenny said:


> I think that's where these feelings must come from, and also my insane need to let him do what he likes so he doesn't wind up having an affair. Therapy/counselling is starting to sound more and more mandatory....


He's already had two emotional affairs and seems to be having another one with Woman A. 

You may not want to believe it's crossed physical lines, but if it has not already, it very likely could. He is being completely inappropriate. That's on HIM.

How would he feel if you were doing all of this with another man? Going to movies in secret, talking on the phone at 3 a.m., having said guy invite himself on road trips with you alone, having another guy get tickets to events for just you and him?

He would lose his mind. Promise you.


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

Why is everyone "blaming" him?
OP hasn't said ANYTHING about what she's doing to keep his focus on her.........just sayin'.

I'm seeing two sides of the coin..



OK.....got the flame suit on.....blast away!!


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

flyer said:


> Why is everyone "blaming" him?
> OP hasn't said ANYTHING about what she's doing to keep his focus on her.........just sayin'.
> 
> I'm seeing two sides of the coin..
> ...



It's a fair question, and I don't mind answering. The more perspective and opinions I have the better armed I will be when it comes time to sit down and hash things out with husband. 

We went to university together and took the same program - that's where we met. We have enough similar interests together (tv shows, trying new restaurants, traveling, tennis lessons) and some that are not similar (musical tastes, his interest in gadgets, mine in cats.) We get along and we talk - about our day, about mutual friends, about life, about our cats, about nothing at all. 

We both work full time, although I do some shift work. 

To be honest, I'm not sure where I'm going with this. I love him, he says he loves me, on the whole we're also best friends and companions and he's never given me any indication he lacks anything from me. I am kind of tired a lot of the time because of the shift work but that's the only complaint I've had from him.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Problems in a marriage are 50/50. No one is perfect. However, a spouse having an affair with someone is 100% on them, not the BS. Problems in a marriage can be worked on together...but not until the third wheel (Miss A) is removed from the relationship. 

Think of it like a sick person. If someone is out of shape, they need to exercise. If, however, they get cancer during this time, the cancer is the focus. It must be removed before you deal with working out. This marriage cannot be repaired until the husband stops replacing his wife with these women.


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

miss_moneypenny said:


> It's a fair question, and I don't mind answering. The more perspective and opinions I have the better armed I will be when it comes time to sit down and hash things out with husband.
> 
> We went to university together and took the same program - that's where we met. We have enough similar interests together (tv shows, trying new restaurants, traveling, tennis lessons) and some that are not similar (musical tastes, his interest in gadgets, mine in cats.) We get along and we talk - about our day, about mutual friends, about life, about our cats, about nothing at all.
> 
> ...




Are you doing "your part" in the bedroom? 

I'm only speaking/asking from my personal experience.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

flyer said:


> Are you doing "your part" in the bedroom?
> 
> I'm only speaking/asking from my personal experience.


Hard to do your part when he's leaving the bed to sweet talk someone else.

Again, their marriage issues can't be addressed until he clears this OW from his head.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

flyer said:


> Why is everyone "blaming" him?
> OP hasn't said ANYTHING about what she's doing to keep his focus on her.........just sayin'.


Until very recently, say the past few months, I believed I was in a stable, happy marriage until my uneasiness about the friendships began. I didn't believe I had to do anything beyond what I was already doing to keep his focus on me because the marriage was supposedly, happy, and stable, and because he was my focus I would naturally be his.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

flyer said:


> Are you doing "your part" in the bedroom?
> 
> I'm only speaking/asking from my personal experience.



Intimate relations are regular and satisfying, certainly not as often as he would like, but we're not 19 and carefree anymore.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

yeah_right said:


> Hard to do your part when he's leaving the bed to sweet talk someone else.


Roger that!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

miss_moneypenny said:


> but we're not 19 and carefree anymore.


Try to be...it is better for your mental health. :smthumbup:


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I have a "work Mom". Hell, I probably have a couple of them.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Try to be...it is better for your mental health. :smthumbup:


Lol, let me amend that. We're relatively carefree, we just have responsibilities like jobs and mortgage now. Thank goodness no kids yet.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

miss_moneypenny said:


> Lol, let me amend that. We're relatively carefree, we just have responsibilities like jobs and mortgage now. Thank goodness no kids yet.


I would really think long and hard about introducing a child into the picture. Your H maturity I question.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Avoid kids, because his need for validation from other chicks will only increase when your attention is taken up with a baby

I don't deny that there are two sides to every story but you can't turn over and slow f*ck someone at 3am if they're downstairs talking to another woman. That is all on him, if he's not happy with an aspect of your relationship then he should be a man and say so and work with you to resolve it


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Well, I decided to have a long chat with him this evening. His business trip with the other woman is coming up, and although I put my foot down hard on the road trip I think we need to hash out everything else.

I'm feeling it's all the more important so he can't come back and say to me 'I didn't know that wasn't okay' since he's having trouble figuring out what appropriate boundaries are. For sure I'm going to ask him not to see her solo anymore, and to keep it to a professional level when they are at work or in group settings. 

I am nervous because I can never articulate myself well out loud and always start crying like a little girl at the slightest hint of confrontation. I've started to write out some points I want to discuss....hopefully I can stick to them. 

I know he's going to act hurt and disappointed when I ask him to cut ties, but I'll have to steel myself and just do it for the sake of our marriage. I've been willfully blind and ignorant to a lot of things and but no more.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Hope it all works out for you.

Remember, that he chose to marry you so you, as his wife, should be the most important woman in his life (even a tiny bit above his mom).

If he has 'big' issues in cutting back or even cutting all ties with his "work friends" that will be telling.

Good luck and stay strong.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Noble1 said:


> Hope it all works out for you.
> 
> *Remember, that he chose to marry you so you, as his wife, should be the most important woman in his life (even a tiny bit above his mom)*.
> 
> ...


and not only that, but you choose not fool around with other guys --er, I mean I have male friends who can make up for what you don't get from your marriage.

When I came to terms with my future husband's special friend, I thought, wow, she's lucky she has 2 boyfriends. And all I have is half of one. 

A good reason, I thought, to start looking for a new boyfriend. I gave him a chance and told him how I was thinking, he immediately got rid of her.

MoneyPenny, is Woman A married? Do you think she really wants to date him or just likes causing drama? Imagine if you two were separated and he was calling her nonstop. She may run for the hills.

In any case, pulling the rug from under the feet when they least expect it can have sobering results. Plan your own exit strategy.


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

He's cheating.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I miss the info about your sex life, how many times a week/month do you two have sex, and how good is it?

How did it change over time the last couple of years?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

miss_moneypenny said:


> What do you think? Am I just being insecure and jealous? Do I trust my gut, which tells me I am right, but at the same time makes me doubt myself? How do I proceed?


I can honestly say that there wouldn't be a chance in hell that I would be anywhere near okay with any of those situations. Boundaries? What boundaries? He does whatever he wants, whenever he wants and screw you.

He's already having an EA with Woman A imo, if not B and C as well! 

YOU should be his best friend. Do you feel like his best friend?

I think you need to tell him that he doesn't have any boundaries. That already he's doing the whole EA thing again and you're sick of feeling like you're in a marriage with him and all his other women. You shouldn't have to compete with them for his attention.

How on earth he has any free time to spend with his wife is beyond me, he's so busy making sure his other ladies are well looked after.

I obviously have completely different views about boundaries, so taking my advice would go against the grain for you I think, but honestly, if you don't start enforcing much better boundaries, you'll have a share-a-husband for the rest of your marriage.


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## RedRidingHood (Jan 31, 2015)

This sounds a lot like my xH. He was the "nice guy" that had lots of female friends. Met him when I was 19. During our marriage, I caught him in 2 EA's. There were also questionable massage parlor charges on our credit card. Looking back, I blame my AGE for thinking some of the things he did was OK. Actually I wasn't in love with him the way a wife should be. He was my "knight in shining armor" from an abusive relationship, go figure! :scratchhead:

Being on my second marriage, I'm more aware of these types of things. When H started getting too chummy with a new female coworker, I paid attention. I figured it was me being on guard until I met her and it was obvious she was jealous of me. Then I told him my thoughts and he mentioned she had been asking him to go to lunch together alone....which he didn't. He thought her and I could be new BFFs not realizing what her intentions were.

Your husband has definitely crossed the line here. Maybe since you've been together since you were younger and never had to experience boundaries until now. This crap he is doing cannot continue. It will destroy you on the inside.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Omg no, you're NOT NOT NOT *that* woman, there is nothing that is one bit ok about the way he's behaving.

I'm not saying you're perfect, who is? But you're not the one behaving like a single person.

If I were you I would have had it by now, I would lay it out on the line - he has to choose, them or me RIGHT NOW. If he has any brains he'll choose you, then he needs to unfriend all his female FB friends who aren't family, remove their numbers from his phone, and NEVER see anyone of the opposite sex socially (incl. work lunches) that he's not related to on his own. He can't be trusted.

Of course, this then begs the question - do you really want to be married to someone that you have to micro manage to this degree?

Wtf is he doing talking to an opposite sex colleague about relationships? That in itself is seriously stuffed up. Tell her to go talk to her gf's.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

miss_moneypenny said:


> Intimate relations are regular and satisfying, certainly not as often as he would like, but we're not 19 and carefree anymore.


No you're not. You're 28 and carefree. Same thing.

So how does that go when he wants sex and you don't? And answer that with the perspective of him having three gals on deck for when he strikes out with you.

Sorry, I just found your statement amusing. I'm really not blaming you.

He IS cheating. Sneaking out of your bed at 3AM to whisper sweet nothings to a girl is cheating by definition, so THAT ship has sailed.

I want three girlfriends fighting over me


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I miss the info about your sex life, how many times a week/month do you two have sex, and how good is it?
> 
> How did it change over time the last couple of years?



This is what I was referring to in my posts. But, I guess OP missed the point......or was really just avoiding it because she REALLY does know the problem.

I know how my wife/roommate is, that's why I'm about to give up......after 34 years.

I CAN'T afford a PA....but an EA......I guess I'll have to say, according to all I've read on TAM, I have them ALL the time. I'll take a hug from just about anyone that offers, because THAT'S the only ones I'm going to get. I certainly won't get one/any at home, especially when my daughter gets married next month, and moves out.


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## miss_moneypenny (May 6, 2015)

Hi again,

Thought I'd share the sitrep. 

We did have a good long talk last night where I flat out said to him that his 'friendships' with these women were not okay by me and that it was completely disrespectful to our marriage to be that emotionally connected and intimate with another woman. I did take a small portion of the responsibility for not speaking up until now (and therefore giving the impression it was okay), but he did acknowledge that he was completely at fault. He went on to admit that even though he felt happy and fulfilled in our marriage, he was addicted to the extra attention and ego boost he got from them, because he previously had issues with self-esteem and body image. 

I'm not sure if his next line was completely the truth or thrown out to placate me, but he said he 'was starting to feel like the way they depended on him was too much and he was starting to back off on his own.'

In any case, given that he has to work with these women, I asked him to no longer interact with them socially and in one on one situations at work. 

He accepted these conditions, but the upcoming business trip raised another issue - Woman A, although no longer going on the road trip, deliberately booked the same flight down and expects to spend the Sunday before the conference with him, and he doesn't know how to 'let her down' without spoiling their work relationship.

I told him that it wasn't my problem because he let himself get into that situation in the first place, although I would just spill the truth so there are no misunderstandings. Will it make his life awkward at work? Probably, but he dug his own grave.

I did bring up our sex life since everyone seemed so interested, but he says it was really just an ego thing, and promises that he wasn't making these friends because our marriage was lacking in any area.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

miss_moneypenny said:


> After I shared my insecurities about this situation, he's offered to cut everything off. The trouble I have is that I don't want to be that woman, that wife who tells him who he can or can't interact with. I don't want to put him in that place where he has to cut things off with his friends and make it awkward for him at work. I can't bear for him to resent me if I did ask him. It's possibly, probably, gotten to a point where I think I have to ask him to do it.
> 
> But thank you, thank you, thank you! for validating my feelings. At least I know I'm not crazy.


Woman here, ongoing married for 35 years (first marriage for both of us), and career woman. He's offered to cut everything off. Ask him to do it. As of this time, you are allowing him to go on dates. It's a matter of time when you'll get burnt. Don't let it happen. 

I am 57 years old and have worked in the same university and department for over 25 years. I have seen women like you get burned too many times. Set your boundaries or your marriage will become another statistic of marriage failure. You need to be more vigilant in your marriage.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I think you need to be on the flight down and spend Sunday with him. The fact that she's going for no reason except to be with him is unacceptable. He needs to tell her point blank that he has overstepped his bounds with her and is committed to his marriage. 

The OW needs to be gone from the picture before you can move forward.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

miss_moneypenny said:


> Hi again,
> 
> Thought I'd share the sitrep.
> 
> ...


That's progress but it's still not far enough OP. Has he unfriended these women on FB? 

He needs to organise for his flight to be changed too. Even if he has to pay to do so, too bad.

You are right - he got himself into this mess, it's up to him to get himself out of it.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

miss_moneypenny said:


> he said he 'was starting to feel like the way they depended on him was too much and he was starting to back off on his own.'


BS. 



miss_moneypenny said:


> Woman A, although no longer going on the road trip, deliberately booked the same flight down and expects to spend the Sunday before the conference with him


Why would anyone in a platonic work relationship do this?



miss_moneypenny said:


> he doesn't know how to 'let her down' without spoiling their work relationship.


Proof that the first quote above is BS.



miss_moneypenny said:


> I asked him to no longer interact with them socially and in one on one situations at work.


Don't ask. This shouldn't be a favor, it's a requirement. 



miss_moneypenny said:


> He accepted these conditions


... and offered you A, B, C ways to PROVE it. Right? Didn't think so.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

miss_moneypenny said:


> I did bring up our sex life since everyone seemed so interested, but he says it was really just an ego thing, and promises that he wasn't making these friends because our marriage was lacking in any area.


You are here neglecting red flag number one. Very often the sex life is an indicator of EA/PA. That is why the info is important. That you think it is not important says a lot....

First deal with the sunday visit by A. Then see if there is not a PA because of the lacking sex which may be overlooked here.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

miss_moneypenny said:


> Woman A, although no longer going on the road trip, deliberately booked the same flight down and expects to spend the Sunday before the conference with him


:scratchhead:


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Roselyn said:


> Woman here, ongoing married for 35 years (first marriage for both of us), and career woman. * He's offered to cut everything off. Ask him to do it. *As of this time, you are allowing him to go on dates. It's a matter of time when you'll get burnt. Don't let it happen.
> 
> I am 57 years old and have worked in the same university and department for over 25 years. * I have seen women like you get burned too many times. Set your boundaries or your marriage will become another statistic of marriage failure. * You need to be more vigilant in your marriage.


This is just another part of the journey into adulthood. That is, some situations are simply "all or nothing." From what you describe, I don't think these women are able to respect boundaries with your husband. And because of that, your husband will always have an excuse to tread those boundaries.

I knew if my future husband had said the he didn't see the need to drop his just a friend ex, I knew that I would never be able to trust him around her. To put myself in a position where I wouldn't have to, I would have chosen some one else for a boyfriend. As unpleasant as it may sound, it really is that simple........ if not easy.

Regarding Facebook, I would have a look at these women's profiles through your husband's account before asking to defriend them. It may be very revealing.

There is a security setting in which if you originate a thread on your wall, it stays on your wall no matter who responds to it, including "likes." that means, he could be putting things on his friends' walls that you never see when looking at his wall through your account.

His activity with them might be very revealing. You will also want to see the private messages between them.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

This isn't over. Just be on your guard. It wouldn't surprise me if after the weekend away he comes back and starts laying down his own ground rules, tells you that you are being unreasonable and jealous and he should be able to do whatever he wants.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think he was feeling guilty for developing more EAs and the guilt made him agree with you. Give him time to stew on it and when he realises that if he sticks to his agreement he won't be able to lead on all these women anymore and bam, out comes affronted husband, wanting to 'stand up for his rights' to be 'friends' with whomever he pleases.


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## Jeffyboy (Apr 7, 2015)

This is how it starts. Little by little. What's that saying? Give an inch, they'll take a mile. Married men are much more of a temptation for women because they know some woman has given the green light so to speak on him. People want what they can't have.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

I have a question.

Aren't opposite sex friendships just like having a credit card? You can do good with it, but also lot of ruin.

People say not to have a credit card because you can spend like crazy and go bankrupt. But what if you have control?

What should one not have opp gender friends if you can maintain control and not step over the line?

Curious to hear some comments on this.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

nirvana said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Aren't opposite sex friendships just like having a credit card? You can do good with it, but also lot of ruin.
> 
> ...


As long as both partners are completely OK with it and there is full disclosure. 

I'm not, so a partner who wants that won't work for me. That doesn't mean she'd be wrong, just incompatible.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

nirvana said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Aren't opposite sex friendships just like having a credit card? You can do good with it, but also lot of ruin.
> 
> ...



Credit cards don't try to fvck your spouse. They don't replace the emotional intimacy. They never become a step-parent to your kids.

If my husband wants to go to dinner, movies, road trips, sporting events, concerts, etc. with a female friend and not his female wife...then what's the point of being married? In my world, those types of activities are called DATES, so if your spouse is doing that and leaving you at home, why is that OK? If people want to behave that they're single...they should just officially stay single.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

yeah_right said:


> Credit cards don't try to fvck your spouse. They don't replace the emotional intimacy.


Actually they do


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Nirvana, one problem here is that each party in this triangle has their own heart, mind and agenda. If your husband "befriends" a barracuda who observes no bounds. no decency then the friendnship is doomed. Either because your husband respects you enough to drop the charade and cancel the "friendship" / relationship. Or because you have to drop the husband.

Sometimes the best solution to a problem is to avoid the road that can lead to it in the first place. If your husband doesn't engage in iffy behavior that looks as if he is dating --no matter what he and his "friend" say, then he doesn't have to worry that he may have led his "friend" on.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

nirvana said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Aren't opposite sex friendships just like having a credit card? You can do good with it, but also lot of ruin.
> 
> ...


Friendships are active with choices form both people. You can only control your side good or bad. 

A credit card is under your complete control good or bad.


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## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

You're far too kind
I would've thrown a major fit and said "F these bishes"
IDC if you both haven't had sex in a year
He is supposed to stay faithful and LOYAL to you FIRST
Not some other v*gina


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think quality vs quantity comes into play with these questions.

If the quality is there in your relationship with your spouse, you don't need the quantity outside of the relationship. I think this mainly applies to opposite-sex friendships, as we tend to want both males and females in our lives, but when you have a spouse, they would/should fill a great part of the need for relations with that gender, reducing the need to seek out further contact outside the marriage. As they don't fill the same sex need (unless same-sex couple), then I think you should naturally see *more* friendships made/continued with same sex people.

If your needs are a little... off (for want of a better word), I think a person may be unable to have those needs filled satisfactorily by their spouse, no matter how hard the spouse tries; such as an overwhelming need for attention from the opposite sex.


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## saubryn (May 12, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Friendships are active with choices form both people. You can only control your side good or bad.
> 
> A credit card is under your complete control good or bad.


I agree with this. 

I'm a firm believer that opposite sex friendships can work, but it has to be for the right reasons and it has to be an open, transparent thing.

I'm of the opinion that good friends - real friends of the type that you get close to and would stay in touch with even if you changed job/quit a particular hobby are very, very rare. When you find one it doesn't matter what gender they are, you should treasure them.

The thing is, OSFs can be a minefield and not everyone is worth the hassle. I wouldn't go to the cinema or go for a meal with just any random guy that I know because yeah, that seems like a date. However, if there's a talk happening at the local University about a subject that bores my husband to tears, it makes sense in my mind (and my husband's) that I'd go with a male friend that likes that sort of thing, then if we're hungry afterwards why not go for a meal? No-one would bat an eyelid if that were a "girl's evening out", but because it's a guy and a girl it suddenly seems weird.


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

*Takes a deep breath and wades in...*

I hope you do what you say and set the ground rules because he NEEDS it. He also needs a swift kick in the a$$ and furthermore...he needs to get some therapy.

And here is why I am saying this...Your husband sounds a lot like me (soon to be "was" as I'm still working on me.)

I have been approached by a lot of woman, many of which I entered into relationships over the years. I've been involved in EAs with 3 women during my current marriage and I have now established NC and have upheld that promise since 12/19 of last year. I have completely deactivated my FB profile and no longer participate in social media. I now run away from women at the first sign of "interest" (attempt to add a little levity to a heartbreaking issue).

He needs to commit to NC with these women, and here's why...

They don't care if he is married or not, and he doesn't know how to say "no". there WILL come a day when one of these women will decise to escalate and proposition him. Given what you've described, I don't think he'd be strong enough to say "no" as he has already demonstrated that they can contact him in your presence.

This is a disaster waiting to happen. Have your talk, put your foot down, get a promise of NC from him, stay vigilant, and most importantly...

Suggest he go talk w/ a therapist about his behavior. Best of luck to you.


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