# Life After Divorce



## browser

Hello TAM members.

I am rapidly nearing the date of my last child support payment and with that last payment I can finally close the chapter on a part of my life that no one wants to ever experience in their lifetime but unfortunately many of us do.

My divorce started about 10 years ago and it took several years and a good part of our marital assets to pay attorneys fees and resulted in estrangement from my children which I have only partially repaired over the years, it's a work in progress.

When things first started I thought my life was over, I went from a comfortable home in a nice neighborhood with a loving wife and 2 great kids, to suddenly being alone and having to adjust to a life that was similar to the one I lived when I was right out of college- suddenly single and having to do everything from grocery shopping to laundry while trying to continue to earn a living, with much of that income funneled towards my exwife and children all of whom suddenly wanted nothing to do with me.

I was on forums such as this one, and received great advice and support and now I am here to pay it back and share my experiences with others and give support and advice based on my own personal experiences.


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## 3Xnocharm

Congrats on reaching the other side!


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## EunuchMonk

Why don't the children want to have anything to do with you?


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## browser

I've got two kids, both of whom stopped talking to me during the divorce when my exwife used standard alienating tactics to turn them away from me. 

In the past few years my youngest has resumed contact with me and although she doesn't live locally we have visited each other on occasion so things are back on track for the most part although the relationship is not what it once was, but then again she's grown up now and things can't be the same. I hope for continued improvement.

My eldest didn't speak to me for a few years during the divorce but ultimately we resumed contact but it was rocky, lots of damage done, then she made some very bad life choices and I was very opposed to some of her decisions including having children while she was still a teenager and dropping out of college in order to do so and she took issue with my lack of supportiveness and finally told me she just didn't want to hear my negativity anymore and started refusing contact about a year ago. In hindsight I should have kept my mouth shut because she wasn't going to listen to me anyway.


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## NoMoreTears4me

browser said:


> Hello TAM members.
> 
> I am rapidly nearing the date of my last child support payment and with that last payment I can finally close the chapter on a part of my life that no one wants to ever experience in their lifetime but unfortunately many of us do.
> 
> My divorce started about 10 years ago and it took several years and a good part of our marital assets to pay attorneys fees and resulted in estrangement from my children which I have only partially repaired over the years, it's a work in progress.
> 
> When things first started I thought my life was over, I went from a comfortable home in a nice neighborhood with a loving wife and 2 great kids, to suddenly being alone and having to adjust to a life that was similar to the one I lived when I was right out of college- suddenly single and having to do everything from grocery shopping to laundry while trying to continue to earn a living, with much of that income funneled towards my exwife and children all of whom suddenly wanted nothing to do with me.
> 
> I was on forums such as this one, and received great advice and support and now I am here to pay it back and share my experiences with others and give support and advice based on my own personal experiences.



You say laundry and grocery shopping like its a bad thing! seriously I don't mind doing those things and I save a ton by not have a wasteful self absorbed uncaring person doing the shopping anymore.

I have one more alimony check and then a few years of CS. However I may take her back to court since I now have one child living with me full time.

I cant wait to be rid of her in all aspects.


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## browser

NoMoreTears4me said:


> You say laundry and grocery shopping like its a bad thing! seriously I don't mind doing those things and I save a ton by not have a wasteful self absorbed uncaring person doing the shopping anymore.
> 
> I have one more alimony check and then a few years of CS. However I may take her back to court since I now have one child living with me full time.
> 
> I cant wait to be rid of her in all aspects.


I don't mind doing laundry and grocery shopping but at first it was sort of a reality check, after having a woman to do it for so many years.

At one point after the divorce was final I had custody of my daughter (it was shortlasting unfortunately then things went south again) but during that period I got the child support eliminated, if you've got custody then go get what is rightfully yours.

I recall when first the child support decreased because my eldest was emancipated then the alimony stopped and now we're approaching the finish line. I think I'll have a party. The ex will not be invited.


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## NoMoreTears4me

browser said:


> I don't mind doing laundry and grocery shopping but at first it was sort of a reality check, after having a woman to do it for so many years.
> 
> At one point after the divorce was final I had custody of my daughter (it was shortlasting unfortunately then things went south again) but during that period I got the child support eliminated, if you've got custody then go get what is rightfully yours.
> 
> I recall when first the child support decreased because my eldest was emancipated then the alimony stopped and now we're approaching the finish line. I think I'll have a party. The ex will not be invited.


In my case she doesn't want to have to take him to school. She thinks cause I still live in school district its my job to let them come to my home everyday and she get them when she wants. I refused. I told her that on her weeks it was her responsibility to get them to school. So now she just doesn't pick up the oldest anymore. He has been with me for 10 weeks now cause he is too much of an inconvenience for her. So right now the oldest is with me full time and the youngest goes back and forth. However I still pay the same amount of CS. 

I have thought of going back to my lawyer but I don't want to rock the boat. I get my oldest all the time now.


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## browser

NoMoreTears4me said:


> I have thought of going back to my lawyer but I don't want to rock the boat. I get my oldest all the time now.


I guess it's a matter of how much you're paying. If it's into the thousands it might be worth making some waves.


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## Thor

NoMoreTears4me said:


> In my case she doesn't want to have to take him to school. She thinks cause I still live in school district its my job to let them come to my home everyday and she get them when she wants. I refused. I told her that on her weeks it was her responsibility to get them to school. So now she just doesn't pick up the oldest anymore. He has been with me for 10 weeks now cause he is too much of an inconvenience for her. So right now the oldest is with me full time and the youngest goes back and forth. However I still pay the same amount of CS.
> 
> I have thought of going back to my lawyer but I don't want to rock the boat. I get my oldest all the time now.


Document document document. Talk to your lawyer about this. Since your wife has apparently "abandoned" your son there may well be a solid and easy case for you to get full custody. I would think your lawyer could advise you in less than .1 of an hour, so it won't cost much $ to find out where you stand legally. I'd be all over getting full custody if I were in your shoes.


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## Chuck71

Browser..... when I came to LaD almost four years ago, they handed out t-shirts and fine Scotch. Check with Ele about that. I recall my intentions were to come aboard TAM, get advice, read similar threads and post a thank you letter after it was all said and done. Then I started posting on threads and really wanted to know... how things were to turn out. About the time those threads are wrapping up, you find a few others, then..... then.....

I don't trigger any from reading threads similar to mine, some do... and some stop posting because of that. Just pay it forward.... that was my concluding sentence on my first LaD post in Feb. '13.


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## BetrayedDad

browser said:


> she made some very bad life choices and I was very opposed to some of her decisions including having children while she was still a teenager and dropping out of college in order to do so and she took issue with my lack of supportiveness and finally told me she just didn't want to hear my negativity anymore and started refusing contact about a year ago. In hindsight I should have kept my mouth shut because she wasn't going to listen to me anyway.


I'd of done the same thing. Are you supposed to pat her on her back while she throws her life away?!?

You're her parent not her "buddy" which is apparently the norm these days. Don't beat yourself up about it.



browser said:


> I think I'll have a party. The ex will not be invited.


You got it all wrong.... She should be the guest of honor! A big thank you for giving you enough cause to get away from her.


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## Red Sonja

Chuck71 said:


> ..... when I came to LaD almost four years ago, they handed out t-shirts and fine Scotch.


How did I miss that?!


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## jb02157

I want to ask if it was really worth it. I've been contemplating divorce for years and and I haven't just because I didn't want all the ill effects that you mention, the all of the sudden being alone and having to funnel all of my money toward people who want nothing to do with me. I've worked damned hard to get to where I am in life and I don't want to throw it all away to people who don't give damn about me. Life has been hell with my wife but I'm wondering if it would be worse to get divorced.


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## 3Xnocharm

Ever heard the old saying.. "why is divorce so expensive? Because its worth it!!" ? Truer words were never spoken. 

What "people" are you referring to about funneling your money? Your kids?? I hope not! The only other person getting any money might be your ex wife, but that all depends on the laws in your area.


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## browser

jb02157 said:


> I want to ask if it was really worth it. I've been contemplating divorce for years and and I haven't just because I didn't want all the ill effects that you mention, the all of the sudden being alone and having to funnel all of my money toward people who want nothing to do with me. I've worked damned hard to get to where I am in life and I don't want to throw it all away to people who don't give damn about me. Life has been hell with my wife but I'm wondering if it would be worse to get divorced.


It was worth it because the anxiety I was experiencing from the relationship was literally tearing me apart. No doubt it would have led to health issues down the line. The relationship I'm in now is so much better it's beyond comparison.

My divorce was very expensive especially with the support payments but at the rate my exwife was spending she most likely would have cost even more than the divorce did.

As far as funneling money towards people who want nothing to do with you.. well the reason you're here is because they want nothing to do with you already, and you're supporting them either way. At least with a divorce there's an endpoint far sooner than the rest of your natural life.

As far as being alone? I've never been without a girlfriend for any length of time. If you're an ok looking guy who has got a few bucks and no major psychological disorders you'll meet women.


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## Chuck71

browser said:


> It was worth it because the anxiety I was experiencing from the relationship was literally tearing me apart. No doubt it would have led to health issues down the line. The relationship I'm in now is so much better it's beyond comparison.
> 
> My divorce was very expensive especially with the support payments but at the rate my exwife was spending she most likely would have cost even more than the divorce did.
> 
> As far as funneling money towards people who want nothing to do with you.. well the reason you're here is because they want nothing to do with you already, and you're supporting them either way. At least with a divorce there's an endpoint far sooner than the rest of your natural life.
> 
> As far as being alone? I've never been without a girlfriend for any length of time. If you're an ok looking guy who has got a few bucks and no major psychological disorders you'll meet women.


Most never fully take into account the toll it can take on one's health. My uncle became an alcoholic 

from his horrid M. 24 pack a day at least, 40+ years. I never agreed with his decision but I

fully understood why. At least a D has "an end." No matter what the cost. Mine was $184.75

but yes, I took some of her debt.... no one gets off scott free.

Very true statement about dating female(s).... although you do meet some oddballs and bandaged 

people (applies to both genders)


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## Openminded

jb02157 said:


> I want to ask if it was really worth it. I've been contemplating divorce for years and and I haven't just because I didn't want all the ill effects that you mention, the all of the sudden being alone and having to funnel all of my money toward people who want nothing to do with me. I've worked damned hard to get to where I am in life and I don't want to throw it all away to people who don't give damn about me. Life has been hell with my wife but I'm wondering if it would be worse to get divorced.


Well, you can try to outlive her -- and still have your health when that happens -- but that's a risk (although many people try it). 

I ended a 45 year marriage and my standard of living took a tremendous hit thanks to financial decisions my ex-husband made. I'll never again have that life -- or anything remotely close to it -- but I have peace for the first time ever. It's worth it.


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## Thor

jb02157 said:


> I want to ask if it was really worth it. I've been contemplating divorce for years and and I haven't just because I didn't want all the ill effects that you mention, the all of the sudden being alone and having to funnel all of my money toward people who want nothing to do with me. I've worked damned hard to get to where I am in life and I don't want to throw it all away to people who don't give damn about me. Life has been hell with my wife but I'm wondering if it would be worse to get divorced.


I'd have to say yes it is worth it. I was married 34 yrs.

The process of getting divorced is not fun. Mine is pretty amicable because she just wanted me out of the house asap. Even so there are some conflicts. The trick is to try to keep good perspective on things. Splitting up the possessions will cause both of you some upset, but ultimately those things aren't really all that important usually. Family heirlooms aside, everything else is just stuff.

For me it has been a much less difficult emotional process than I had expected. I have been mostly relieved rather than emotionally distraught. It surprised me. I think I had mourned the loss of the relationship long ago. And as others have said there is a very significant downside to staying in a bad marriage.

Being new to this, I haven't dated yet, so I can't comment on what that is like. Being on my own is overall much more relaxed and healthy than before the divorce.

Financially it won't be as good as had we stayed together, probably. But it won't be bad either, as I am now the sole driver of how things go.

Divorce is not ideal, but neither is a bad marriage.


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## Bananapeel

jb02157 said:


> I want to ask if it was really worth it. I've been contemplating divorce for years and and I haven't just because I didn't want all the ill effects that you mention, the all of the sudden being alone and having to funnel all of my money toward people who want nothing to do with me. I've worked damned hard to get to where I am in life and I don't want to throw it all away to people who don't give damn about me. Life has been hell with my wife but I'm wondering if it would be worse to get divorced.


If it is worth it really depends on what reason you have for being married, why you want a divorce, and if there are other options (e.g. counseling) that can provide a better alternative solution. For me it was well worth it because there's no way I'd be able to look at myself in the mirror if I stayed with my XWW. No amount of money would be worth giving up that part of myself. However, going through divorce is hell and it takes a while for life to normalize after everything is finished. Now life is great.


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## Chuck71

Bananapeel said:


> If it is worth it really depends on what reason you have for being married, why you want a divorce, and if there are other options (e.g. counseling) that can provide a better alternative solution. For me it was well worth it because there's no way I'd be able to look at myself in the mirror if I stayed with my XWW. No amount of money would be worth giving up that part of myself. However, going through divorce is hell and it takes a while for life to normalize after everything is finished. Now life is great.


For the most part.... after 12-18 months following DDay..... the BS is much better off than the WS


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## browser

Today I found out an interesting bit of news through the "family and friends" grapevine. As I stated I'm down to my last few child support payments. 

My exwife has an older daughter who has been funneling her money at an ever increasing rate over the past few months- her financial situation is apparently quite dire and she's having trouble making her rent. And this is with the support checks still coming in. Of course my children see almost none of it but that's another matter altogether. She has chosen not to pursue gainful employment and it's caught up to her at last. If we had stayed married her spending habits probably would have bankrupted us. Now I can watch the crash and burn from a safe distance. Well worth what the divorce cost me!


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## Chuck71

browser said:


> Today I found out an interesting bit of news through the "family and friends" grapevine. As I stated I'm down to my last few child support payments.
> 
> My exwife has an older daughter who has been funneling her money at an ever increasing rate over the past few months- her financial situation is apparently quite dire and she's having trouble making her rent. And this is with the support checks still coming in. Of course my children see almost none of it but that's another matter altogether. She has chosen not to pursue gainful employment and it's caught up to her at last. If we had stayed married her spending habits probably would have bankrupted us. Now I can watch the crash and burn from a safe distance. Well worth what the divorce cost me!


Old habits..... hard to break


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## browser

Chuck71 said:


> Old habits..... hard to break


From what I understand she's gotten worse. Much worse.

If we had stayed together- it would have been completely unbearable.

Even though we got along on so many levels. No cheating, great sex, even up to and during the first part of the divorce until I finally pulled the plug on what was an extremely dysfunctional situation.


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## Chuck71

Check out Conrad's old threads.... they're old but very true


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## GuyInColorado

I separated January 13th. Divorce was final June 10th. Last week she refinanced the house and her auto loan. I'm off the hook for $2500/m in debt! I have to pay her $480m in CS and 50% of her nanny (another $500m). 

Divorce for me was worth every penny I lost. Funny, I'm going to get engaged to my g/f of 9 months soon and will get married again. If things turn bad, I'll divorce again. Life is journey. Life is way better with another person that loves you as much as you love them.


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## jb02157

GuyInColorado said:


> I separated January 13th. Divorce was final June 10th. Last week she refinanced the house and her auto loan. I'm off the hook for $2500/m in debt! I have to pay her $480m in CS and 50% of her nanny (another $500m).
> 
> Divorce for me was worth every penny I lost. Funny, I'm going to get engaged to my g/f of 9 months soon and will get married again. If things turn bad, I'll divorce again. Life is journey. Life is way better with another person that loves you as much as you love them.


Right but some of us never get that chance


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## browser

GuyInColorado said:


> Divorce for me was worth every penny I lost. Funny, I'm going to get engaged to my g/f of 9 months soon and will get married again. If things turn bad, I'll divorce again. Life is journey. Life is way better with another person that loves you as much as you love them.


I'll never understand why a person who has been through a bad marriage and a subsequent divorce would ever get married again. There's just no point to it. Not even for health insurance because you can get that with the new domestic partnership laws (thank you gay people!).

Yeah you could "always just get divorced again" but then again you could always "stick a pin in your eyeball" while you're at it.


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## 3Xnocharm

jb02157 said:


> Right but some of us never get that chance


Because some of you CHOOSE to stay in your self imposed prison. Life is all about choices.


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## browser

3Xnocharm said:


> Because some of you CHOOSE to stay in your self imposed prison. Life is all about choices.


Sometimes people literally cannot afford to divorce. Or the options are just so bad that they'd rather stay in their self imposed prison because it's the lesser of two evils.


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## Chuck71

Used to be... you had kids when you were 18-24. By the time they were grown or at least old

enough to choose where to stay, you were still young enough to "start over" at 36-42.

Today.... people are having kids about ten years later. The D rate is always high in the 38-44 range,

just like before. The difference is.... the kids are a lot younger. The children are used as pawns,

intentionally or unintentionally. Then comes the CS.... the alimony (not as bad as before), maintenance

in general, losing the house, alienating the kids. THAT's why some stick it out until the kids

are grown. I see this all the time on this board. Every now and then you read about a D where

the W is the bread winner and she gets taken to the cleaners. Maybe if this happens enough, laws 

will be changed. As jb02 is saying.... he can be utterly miserable but be with his kids and maintain

a nice standard of living, or be lonely, broke (a D man with little cash is not attractive to many 

females), see kids 50% if he is lucky or in many cases... alienated from them.


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## jb02157

Hope Shimmers said:


> Funnel all of "your" money? Sorry, but if you made that money while married, it is equally HER money. So yeah, you will funnel half of it to her.
> 
> So you have worked damn hard to get to where you are in life. Did she work hard too? What did she do? Did she work? Was she a SAHM? Certainly she did something to contribute to the marriage. Your words and tone insinuate that you are the only one who did anything and you are the only one who should get the credit and rewards.
> 
> IME men are just afraid to be alone. That's what it boils down to. Many women tend to be way less so, as long as they have the resources to take care of themselves/their kids - and many women will move hell and earth to find a way to do that. Many men, on the other hand, are afraid of change and afraid of being independent. They would rather stay in an emotionally horrible situation than take a chance that things could be better. (Because hey! They could also be worse! And that is scary). So they are locked in place and too afraid to step out of the comfort zone, however much they hate their current life.
> 
> I'll never understand it. Like YNot said, material things are just materials things. Hardly worth giving up your personal/emotional/relationship happiness for material things that can be replaced. So I really don't think that's your real issue. Your real issue is that you are afraid to make a change. It's your choice, but then IMO you don't get to complain about where you are in life. Only you can change it. Life is choices.


Afraid to make a change that will put me in the poor house, yes. I've worked to hard for that so that's not an option for me. I'm not going to give everything to my wife who did absolutely nothing in the marriage to contribute to it, she only took away. So if I had a choice of either the poor house or staying in an emotionally horrible situation, I'll choose the latter. For women it's different, they will always have someone who's forced to give them money whether they work or not. Men don't have that luxury.


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## browser

jb02157 said:


> For women it's different, they will always have someone who's forced to give them money whether they work or not. Men don't have that luxury.


It's not that gender specific. I've known at least two women who worked their asses off their entire life and when they got divorced their parasitic exhusbands got more than their fair share.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> Not nice.
> 
> If they guy prefers creature comforts over freedom that's his call and lots of guys make that same call.
> 
> Easy for you to say he's a loser from where you sit because you're not the one faced with such a life changing decision.


Make a lot of assumptions do you? HTF do you know what I have been faced with? The guy is continually posting in a forum about Life After Divorce but refuses to do what he thinks is right because he is afraid to lose some material possessions. There are quite a few of us (men and women) here who have lost material possessions. Quite frankly I find it insulting. Sometimes people need a 2x4 upside the head because there brain isn't working right.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> Make a lot of assumptions do you? HTF do you know what I have been faced with? They guy is continually posting in a forum about Life After Divorce but refuses to do what he thinks is right because he is afraid to lose some material possessions. There are quite a few of us here who have lost material possessions. Sometimes people need a 2x4 upside the head because there brain isn't working right.


Lots of people stay married for financial reasons. They choose creature comforts and solvency over freedom and destitution, and it's not for you to judge what's the best choice for them.

Insulting a person simply because you don't agree with their course of action is unhelpful and not supportive. The person isn't going to say "Some random internet stranger says I'm a loser and my brain aint right therefore I'm going to throw caution to the wind and just take my chances out there in the world alone and with no money".


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## Ynot

browser said:


> Lots of people stay married for financial reasons. They choose creature comforts and solvency over freedom and destitution, and it's not for you to judge what's the best choice for them.
> 
> Insulting a person simply because you don't agree with their course of action is unhelpful and not supportive. The person isn't going to say "Some random internet stranger says I'm a loser and my brain aint right therefore I'm going to throw caution to the wind and just take my chances out there in the world alone and with no money".


Yep, lots of people stay married for financial reason and they live the rest of their lives miserably because of it. But they often times don't troll internet forums about LIFE AFTER DIVORCE whining about how they might lose something material. It is insulting to see such shallowness in a forum devoted to people who have actually suffered and are recovering or have recovered from divorce. Many of us didn't have the choice.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> Yep, lots of people stay married for financial reason and they live the rest of their lives miserably because of it. But they often times don't troll internet forums about LIFE AFTER DIVORCE whining about how they might lose something material. It is insulting to see such shallowness in a forum devoted to people who are recovering or have recovered from divorce. Many of us didn't have the choice.


I don't see his posts as being insulting to those who have been through the pain, suffering, and life changing consequences of divorce.

If anything, seeing how miserable he continues to be in his marriage is validating for those of us who HAVE taken the plunge and dissolved our marriage while accepting the huge changes in our lives, which are almost always for the better.

I welcome @jb02157 contributions to this thread, I think they're very relevant because it helps put things into perspective.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> I don't see his posts as being insulting to those who have been through the pain, suffering, and life changing consequences of divorce.
> 
> If anything, seeing how miserable he continues to be in his marriage is validating for those of us who HAVE taken the plunge and dissolved our marriage while accepting the huge changes in our lives, which are almost always for the better.
> 
> I welcome @jb02157 contributions to this thread, I think they're very relevant because it helps put things into perspective.


That is YOUR opinion. I have my own. Have a nice evening


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## MattMatt

MODERATOR WARNING:-

Please keep it civil. 

It's possible to make your point without belittling other TAM members and risking being banned for being offensive, in contradiction of the rules.


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## GuyInColorado

I'm on month #3 of child support. I got 13 years left! Worth every goddamn cent! 

Funny, I'm shopping for rings with the girl of my dreams not even 11 months after separating. Life is amazing with a person you can't get enough of.


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## Hope Shimmers

GuyInColorado said:


> I'm on month #3 of child support. I got 13 years left! Worth every goddamn cent!
> 
> Funny, I'm shopping for rings with the girl of my dreams not even 11 months after separating. Life is amazing with a person you can't get enough of.


Wow. Do you think that's maybe a little fast?


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## MEM2020

JB,

Your last statement was as hateful as it is untrue.






jb02157 said:


> Afraid to make a change that will put me in the poor house, yes. I've worked to hard for that so that's not an option for me. I'm not going to give everything to my wife who did absolutely nothing in the marriage to contribute to it, she only took away. So if I had a choice of either the poor house or staying in an emotionally horrible situation, I'll choose the latter. For women it's different, they will always have someone who's forced to give them money whether they work or not. Men don't have that luxury.


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## browser

GuyInColorado said:


> I'm on month #3 of child support. I got 13 years left! Worth every goddamn cent!
> 
> Funny, I'm shopping for rings with the girl of my dreams not even 11 months after separating. Life is amazing with a person you can't get enough of.


A few choice words come to mind that describe what I think of how you are handling your life at this particular moment. "Funny" is not one of them.


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## arbitrator

NoMoreTears4me said:


> You say laundry and grocery shopping like its a bad thing! seriously I don't mind doing those things and I save a ton by not have a wasteful self absorbed uncaring person doing the shopping anymore.
> 
> I have one more alimony check and then a few years of CS. *However I may take her back to court since I now have one child living with me full time
> 
> I cant wait to be rid of her in all aspects.*


*You need to make the child support modification pronto! Few, if any family court judges are sympathetic about arranging for "backtracking" and like to do their child support modifications as they actually occur!

Get this taken care of immediately! *


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## StevenT

It's really not easy to experience all of these you have suffered and make the decision. Come on, you could be more stronger in your life.


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## jb02157

Ynot said:


> Yep, lots of people stay married for financial reason and they live the rest of their lives miserably because of it. But they often times don't troll internet forums about LIFE AFTER DIVORCE whining about how they might lose something material. It is insulting to see such shallowness in a forum devoted to people who have actually suffered and are recovering or have recovered from divorce. Many of us didn't have the choice.


So you think I'm trolling this forum?? I'd watch what you say as far as inaccurate information. You say I troll internet forums. This is the only forum I have ever posted in. Also, I'm not talking about losing a couple material things or a couple bucks, I'm talking about survival purely and simply. I have seen many of my friends go from being in a stable financial situation to, at the whim of their wives wanting a divorce, being hard pressed to find a dirty apartment to live in while being stripped from any contact with their kids. This IS real life whether you want to believe it or not as insulting as it may or may not be. These friends of mine didn't have a choice either, their lives were turned upside down by a decision someone else made who didn't give a damn about them. These people are also suffering and recovering from a divorce to. Shouldn't this perspective be heard? I'm sorry if this situation doesn't apply to you but I definitely think that applies to many on this site.


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## jb02157

browser said:


> I don't see his posts as being insulting to those who have been through the pain, suffering, and life changing consequences of divorce.
> 
> If anything, seeing how miserable he continues to be in his marriage is validating for those of us who HAVE taken the plunge and dissolved our marriage while accepting the huge changes in our lives, which are almost always for the better.
> 
> I welcome @jb02157 contributions to this thread, I think they're very relevant because it helps put things into perspective.


Thanks Browser. I don't know whether I would agree taking the divorce plunge is almost always for the better. I've seen and lived through plenty of times it wasn't. If finances weren't involved as unfairly as they are then it would be worthwhile.


----------



## Ynot

jb02157 said:


> So you think I'm trolling this form?? I'd watch what you say as far as inaccurate information. You say I troll internet forums. This is the only forum I have ever posted in. Also, I'm not talking about losing a couple material things or a couple bucks, I'm talking about survival purely and simply. I have seen many of my friends go from being in a stable financial situation to, at the whim of their wives wanting a divorce, being hard pressed to find a dirty apartment to live in while being stripped from any contact with their kids. This IS real life whether you want to believe it or not as insulting as it may or may not be. These friends of mine didn't have a choice either, their lives were turned upside down by a decision someone else made who didn't give a damn about them. These people are also suffering and recovering from a divorce to. Shouldn't this perspective be heard? I'm sorry if this situation doesn't apply to you but I definitely think that applies to many on this site.


Yeah, you see, this is where you are wrong. Because it did happen to me. I lost everything I owned - my home, my business, my family, my friends, my life. And you know what else, quite frankly I find it insulting to see you make post after post about "woe is me, I have too much to loose!" If you aren't going to do something about your miserable life, then stop whining about how your hands are ties - because you are the one who tied them. It is almost like going on a forum about poverty and whining because you don't know whether or not to order the filet because it might be overcooked. You are no different than all the people who post stories in other forums, where they tell their story of disfunction, neglect, and abandonment but will do anything to save their marriage. Do you know what happens to them? They get a 2x4 upside the head telling them to wake up! So either wake up and take charge of life. I mean really take charge or continue to give half of everything you have to wife along in addition to your happiness.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

jb02157 said:


> So you think I'm trolling this form?? I'd watch what you say as far as inaccurate information. You say I troll internet forums. This is the only forum I have ever posted in. Also, I'm not talking about losing a couple material things or a couple bucks, I'm talking about survival purely and simply. I have seen many of my friends go from being in a stable financial situation to, at the whim of their wives wanting a divorce, being hard pressed to find a dirty apartment to live in while being stripped from any contact with their kids. This IS real life whether you want to believe it or not as insulting as it may or may not be. These friends of mine didn't have a choice either, their lives were turned upside down by a decision someone else made who didn't give a damn about them. These people are also suffering and recovering from a divorce to. Shouldn't this perspective be heard? I'm sorry if this situation doesn't apply to you but I definitely think that applies to many on this site.


I'm 9 years out from my divorce, so I don't get insulted or offended easily about the topic. I do think you have a point in some cases, because I have seen it happen. 

I noticed in your earlier post that you seemed to generalize a bit in terms of gender, though. In my case, I ended up worse off financially than my ex-H did, because my income was higher and I ended up paying him. I really think it is less to do about gender and more about who has been the primary provider. 

I think it's just disturbing to some people to think that someone would choose to live their life in an emotionally unhappy situation rather than let go of material things. If it's truly a matter of survival, that's different. And it's certainly a matter of choice.

I don't want to speak for Ynot, but I suspect that it is hard for some people to realize that you DO get a choice and that you chose to stay, yet also seem to wish you were divorced. Many people don't get a choice in the matter, and they end up losing not only their partner and in some cases their children, and many of their material things as well. And then they have no choice but to make the best of it and build a new life. I can relate to that as well.

Those are just my objective thoughts, if it helps.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

jb02157 said:


> Afraid to make a change that will put me in the poor house, yes. I've worked to hard for that so that's not an option for me. I'm not going to give everything to my wife who did absolutely nothing in the marriage to contribute to it, she only took away. So if I had a choice of either the poor house or staying in an emotionally horrible situation, I'll choose the latter. *For women it's different, they will always have someone who's forced to give them money whether they work or not. Men don't have that luxury*.



Seriously?? This is pure ignorance! I have struggled my entire adult life to make ends meet after getting divorced, and I don't live anywhere near a luxury lifestyle! My ex H paid child support but BARELY. The amount was so small it didn't make much difference for me. Plus he never ever helped with other expenses for her as was spelled out in our agreement, which was made because I was helping HIM out by taking less support! In fact, I know of WAY more women who ended up getting financially screwed over in divorce than men by a long shot! How dare you generalize like this, especially when you don't have the balls to end your own miserable marriage because you want to hang onto your money instead! EVERY SINGLE DIVORCE is unique and different, no one gets exactly the same settlement, and to think otherwise is just ignorance. 

I may struggle financially, but I don't live with a miserable controlling PA d!ckhead any more! I have my own home and my own life, which I live on MY terms and no one else's! This post insults the crap out of me!


----------



## C3156

jb02157 said:


> Also, I'm not talking about losing a couple material things or a couple bucks, I'm talking about survival purely and simply. I have seen many of my friends go from being in a stable financial situation to, at the whim of their wives wanting a divorce, being hard pressed to find a dirty apartment to live in while being stripped from any contact with their kids. This IS real life whether you want to believe it or not as insulting as it may or may not be. These friends of mine didn't have a choice either, their lives were turned upside down by a decision someone else made who didn't give a damn about them. These people are also suffering and recovering from a divorce to. Shouldn't this perspective be heard? I'm sorry if this situation doesn't apply to you but I definitely think that applies to many on this site.


Life is about choices. Your friends most likely chose to ignore the signs that their spouse was unhappy in the relationship. By the time they were served for divorce, they were so far behind the 8 ball in planning & emotion they most likely capitulated instead of fighting.

Here is a novel idea - Why not plan for and execute a divorce on your terms? Research the internet, interview a few competent attorneys, and determine your goals. Then develop and execute a plan to achieve your goals. Contrary to your belief, it is not the whim of the wife that causes your friends to lose everything. It was their wife's execution of a good divorce plan.

There are forums dedicated to divorcing from a man's point of view that could give you some excellent advice on how to succeed. Sure it may cost you some cash, but not as much as getting blindsided by a prepared spouse who is 10 steps ahead of you in the divorce process.


----------



## jb02157

Hope Shimmers said:


> I think it's just disturbing to some people to think that someone would choose to live their life in an emotionally unhappy situation rather than let go of material things. If it's truly a matter of survival, that's different. And it's certainly a matter of choice.
> 
> I don't want to speak for Ynot, but I suspect that it is hard for some people to realize that you DO get a choice and that you chose to stay, yet also seem to wish you were divorced. Many people don't get a choice in the matter, and they end up losing not only their partner and in some cases their children, and many of their material things as well. And then they have no choice but to make the best of it and build a new life. I can relate to that as well.
> 
> Those are just my objective thoughts, if it helps.


The way I look at it I don't get a choice. Living like a bum well under the poverty line isn't an option for me. You lose more than a few bucks. I've tried and tried to explain that on this forum. I've been to lawyers before many times and they all say the same thing, that I would lose probably 60% to 70% of my income. I would not be able to afford rent in the worst part of town on that. 

I don't know how this comes across as offensive. It's real life.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

jb02157 said:


> The way I look at it I don't get a choice. Living like a bum well under the poverty line isn't an option for me. You lose more than a few bucks. I've tried and tried to explain that on this forum. I've been to lawyers before many times and they all say the same thing, that I would lose probably 60% to 70% of my income. I would not be able to afford rent in the worst part of town on that.
> 
> I don't know how this comes across as offensive. It's real life.


Well, I tried to explain to you (nicely) why some people might take offense. Lots of people lose 60-70% of their income as a result of divorce - or even more. I did.

You don't need to "try and try to explain anything" on this forum. It's your life and your decision. I think, though, that you should then accept that you chose to remain married so you ARE married and there is no "Life After Divorce" in your future. I suspect that is why people take offense.


----------



## jb02157

3Xnocharm said:


> Seriously?? This is pure ignorance! I have struggled my entire adult life to make ends meet after getting divorced, and I don't live anywhere near a luxury lifestyle! My ex H paid child support but BARELY. The amount was so small it didn't make much difference for me. Plus he never ever helped with other expenses for her as was spelled out in our agreement, which was made because I was helping HIM out by taking less support! In fact, I know of WAY more women who ended up getting financially screwed over in divorce than men by a long shot! How dare you generalize like this, especially when you don't have the balls to end your own miserable marriage because you want to hang onto your money instead! EVERY SINGLE DIVORCE is unique and different, no one gets exactly the same settlement, and to think otherwise is just ignorance.
> 
> I may struggle financially, but I don't live with a miserable controlling PA d!ckhead any more! I have my own home and my own life, which I live on MY terms and no one else's! This post insults the crap out of me!


I to struggle to make ends meet WITHOUT being divorced. Every lawyer I have gone to told me that because I'm male, I would lose more in a divorce. As with anything else there are exceptions but for the most part men lose more. This is NOT me saying this. Lawyers told me this. It's not about hanging on to a couple of bucks, it's about survival. I could NOT afford a home of my own if I were divorced, nor would I be able to live life on my own terms. If I had your situation, financially struggling but able to afford my own home and live on my terms, I'd file tomorrow. 

I'm tired of having to defend myself like this, I'm merely sharing information giving to me by lawyers. I'm sorry if it offends you, but what you are saying offends me. You imply that I COULD afford a house if I were divorced and I assure you I could not.


----------



## browser

Ynot said:


> Yeah, you see, this is where you are wrong. Because it did happen to me. I lost everything I owned


I don't think he needs a 2x4, I think he's well aware of his situation and what he has to lose.

So what you traded it all in for freedom. 

He prefers not to do that. As do MANY people who stay in bad marriages simply due to finances. 

It's called "disagreeing with a course of action" and it does not justify name calling or so called "2x4s" although I too am guilty of supplying such 2x4's for clueless posters who are walking into certain disaster. @jb02157 is NOT one of them.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

jb02157 said:


> You imply that I COULD afford a house if I were divorced and I assure you I could not.


You could move to a location where you COULD afford a house.

Life is choices. 



browser said:


> I don't think he needs a 2x4, I think he's well aware of his situation and what he has to lose.
> 
> So what you traded it all in for freedom.
> 
> He prefers not to do that. As do MANY people who stay in bad marriages simply due to finances.
> 
> It's called "disagreeing with a course of action" and it does not justify name calling or so called "2x4s" although I too am guilty of supplying such 2x4's for clueless posters who are walking into certain disaster. @jb02157 is NOT one of them.


That's all fine and good, and I agree. I would also say to jb02157, then quitcherb!tchin.  You made your choice, live with it and be happy about it. You don't have a life after divorce, because you chose not to divorce.


----------



## vi_bride04

Hope Shimmers said:


> You made your choice, live with it and be happy about it. *You don't have a life after divorce, because you chose not to divorce.*


#Truth


----------



## jb02157

Hope Shimmers said:


> You could move to a location where you COULD afford a house.
> 
> Life is choices.
> 
> 
> 
> That's all fine and good, and I agree. I would also say to jb02157, then quitcherb!tchin.  You made your choice, live with it and be happy about it. You don't have a life after divorce, because you chose not to divorce.


Right, but the point I'm trying make is that it shouldn't have to be this way. Anyone whether man or woman should have the right to walk away from a marriage and not have to withstand a multitude of financial woes afterward.


----------



## jb02157

browser said:


> I don't think he needs a 2x4, I think he's well aware of his situation and what he has to lose.


The time I needed the 2x4 is when I decided to marry my wife.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

jb02157 said:


> Right, but the point I'm trying make is that it shouldn't have to be this way. Anyone whether man or woman should have the right to walk away from a marriage and not have to withstand a multitude of financial woes afterward.


Well, wouldn't THAT be nice. And while we're at it, can we ask for world peace too?

See my other post when I said that I pay half of my kids' college expenses to the tune of $50,000 one year. On top of their monthly expenses. And I pay all of my teenage daughter's expenses since she lives with me full time. I decided not to go back to court to fight over money anymore.


----------



## browser

jb02157 said:


> Right, but the point I'm trying make is that it shouldn't have to be this way. Anyone whether man or woman should have the right to walk away from a marriage and not have to withstand a multitude of financial woes afterward.


To say things "shouldn't" be a certain way is rather pointless because well, they ARE that way and they aint gonna change, *[edited to amend and add the term "anytime soon"]* and you need to deal with the cards you were dealt- not complain about how unfair it is because that is what is known as the "victim mentality" and it won't work for you.

Truth is the laws regarding marriage and divorce have been on the books for a long time, and although they've changed over the years, they're still there and can be read by anyone with the ability to search the internet or pay a visit to their local library or courthouse.

We choose to marry regardless of the large risk and small benefit ratio and when it all goes south we tend to blame the courts, and the laws, and go on about how unfair it is but the truth is we only have ourselves to blame. We chose the wrong person to trust with our lives and the only person to point the finger at is the person in the mirror.


----------



## jb02157

browser said:


> To say things "shouldn't" be a certain way is rather pointless because well, they ARE that way and they aint gonna change


Oh yes it can, laws change everyday. It's my hope that one day the divorce laws will change making them halfway fair. Some men's rights attorneys I've been talking to say that some states have proposals on the floor now to that effect. Before anyone asks, I do not have a website or link to back that up.


----------



## browser

jb02157 said:


> Oh yes it can, laws change everyday. It's my hope that one day the divorce laws will change making them halfway fair. Some men's rights attorneys I've been talking to say that some states have proposals on the floor now to that effect. Before anyone asks, I do not have a website or link to back that up.


There are always new proposed laws on the books, there are men's rights movements in most states and huge gains have been made, especially in Massachussets with the recent abolishment of lifetime alimony but most of the changes will only help people who file for divorce AFTER the new law comes out.

You're planning on sticking around and waiting for the laws in your state to change in your favor? If so I suggest you join a father's rights movement in your state and start participating.


----------



## Ynot

browser said:


> I don't think he needs a 2x4, I think he's well aware of his situation and what he has to lose.
> 
> So what you traded it all in for freedom.
> 
> He prefers not to do that. As do MANY people who stay in bad marriages simply due to finances.
> 
> It's called "disagreeing with a course of action" and it does not justify name calling or so called "2x4s" although I too am guilty of supplying such 2x4's for clueless posters who are walking into certain disaster. @jb02157 is NOT one of them.


I am so glad you get to be the arbiter of who gets a 2x4 and who doesn't. How did the world revolve before you came along?
As other have said, there is nothing wrong with choosing to throw your happiness away, people do it all the time, except this guy is posting in Life AFTER Divorce and since he doesn't have the balls to take the hit and instead chooses to continually whine about loosing some material possessions, he doesn't have a life after divorce.
But again, I am glad you are the arbiter of truth. Because our buddy IS living in a world of certain disaster. Maybe nobody has pointed out to him that not only is he already giving up more than half his income, but he is also giving up all of his happiness. Of course with enablers making excuses for him who needs the truth?


----------



## browser

Ynot said:


> I am so glad you get to be the arbiter of who gets a 2x4 and who doesn't. How did the world revolve before you came along?
> As other have said, there is nothing wrong with choosing to throw your happiness away, people do it all the time, except this guy is posting in Life AFTER Divorce and since he doesn't have the balls to take the hit and instead chooses to continually whine about loosing some material possessions, he doesn't have a life after divorce.
> But again, I am glad you are the arbiter of truth. Because our buddy IS living in a world of certain disaster. Maybe nobody has pointed out to him that not only is he already giving up more than half his income, but he is also giving up all of his happiness. Of course with enablers making excuses for him who needs the truth?


Are you hitting me with a 2x4?


----------



## Thor

jb02157 said:


> Right, but the point I'm trying make is that it shouldn't have to be this way. Anyone whether man or woman should have the right to walk away from a marriage and not have to withstand a multitude of financial woes afterward.


Is the issue alimony? Child support?

I stayed for many years in my marriage due to financial concerns. At one point I considered moving into a mobile home. Things haven't turned out nearly that bad, but I still don't see a way to retire at 65. I'll be working until I'm unable. This isn't at all the financial outcome I'd planned on and worked for over the last 35 years. But it is what it is, and I have to agree with the commonly stated sentiment that after getting out it does seem worth the trade off in improved emotional health.

Also, an observation from my employment experiences, when I was laid off (three times by two different employers) things looked pretty bleak. And, during those times it was extremely difficult to think of creative solutions. The stress made it hard to get started on finding something new, as well as making it hard to think broadly of solutions. I know that I was not optimistic at those times, and not optimistic about divorce for many years. But somehow things are working out.

All that to say there may be solutions which are not ideal and maybe not even very good, but which are in fact possible. Try to find those possibles, then see how they can be achieved and how they might even be improved upon. See if there is some hope there. And then you can decide if it is worth the tradeoff of getting your happiness back.

Alternatively, perhaps agreeing with your wife on a practical arrangement of an open marriage is the answer. If she isn't happy, perhaps the solution is for a practical financial arrangement where you stay married but you are both free to have your own lives in every way including relationships.


----------



## Ynot

Thor said:


> Is the issue alimony? Child support?
> 
> I stayed for many years in my marriage due to financial concerns. At one point I considered moving into a mobile home. Things haven't turned out nearly that bad, but I still don't see a way to retire at 65. I'll be working until I'm unable. This isn't at all the financial outcome I'd planned on and worked for over the last 35 years. But it is what it is, and I have to agree with the commonly stated sentiment that after getting out it does seem worth the trade off in improved emotional health.
> 
> Also, an observation from my employment experiences, when I was laid off (three times by two different employers) things looked pretty bleak. And, during those times it was extremely difficult to think of creative solutions. The stress made it hard to get started on finding something new, as well as making it hard to think broadly of solutions. I know that I was not optimistic at those times, and not optimistic about divorce for many years. But somehow things are working out.
> 
> All that to say there may be solutions which are not ideal and maybe not even very good, but which are in fact possible. Try to find those possibles, then see how they can be achieved and how they might even be improved upon. See if there is some hope there. And then you can decide if it is worth the tradeoff of getting your happiness back.
> 
> Alternatively, perhaps agreeing with your wife on a practical arrangement of an open marriage is the answer. If she isn't happy, perhaps the solution is for a practical financial arrangement where you stay married but you are both free to have your own lives in every way including relationships.


Save your key strokes. JB doesn't want to take advise. This has been going on for the past 2.5 years:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/187057-i-dont-know-what-do-next.html

He has been given all sorts of advise in that time. He would rather play the "woe is me" card and blame the system or his wife than take responsibility for his own happiness. I think he is just paralyzed by his fear of the unknown. Unfortunately, he has been able to find enablers who pander to that fear, perhaps because they too share that fear.


----------



## browser

Ynot said:


> JB doesn't want to take advise. He would rather play the "woe is me" card and blame the system or his wife than take responsibility for his own happiness. I think he is just paralyzed by his fear of the unknown.


No, he's aware of what would happen to him in a divorce, he knows it's going to be a disaster, he'll lose contact with his kids and he won't be able to afford to live on his own. 

He said it in the very thread you quoted.



jb02157 said:


> I'll tell why I'm still in this marriage. I was told over and over again if I got divorced I would not be able to see the kids unless I was able to afford a house for her (doesn't work, sits around all day doing nothing) and the kids and a dwelling for me that had separate bedrooms for EACH of them. Now that the kids are getting to be college age, any money I could put toward getting divorced has to go toward tuition.


It's not fear of the unknown, it's a reasonable reaction to what he KNOWS will happen.


----------



## Ynot

browser said:


> No, he's aware of what would happen to him in a divorce, he knows it's going to be a disaster, he'll lose contact with his kids and he won't be able to afford to live on his own.
> 
> He said it in the very thread you quoted.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not fear of the unknown, it's a reasonable reaction to what he KNOWS will happen.


No, it is fear of the unknown. He just claims this is what he has been told. By whom? We don't have a clue. He also claims an attorney would not take his case, which is utter rubbish. Or maybe not, but so far it was ONE attorney. Look, he is already giving away half of his income (or more) to support a woman (who he claims has never worked) in addition to giving her ALL of his happiness. If you think this is reasonable, by all mean who am I stop you. Keep being an enabler. As for me, I think he is acting foolishly. If he is so miserable but won't lift a finger to do anything about it, well his actions speak louder than words.


----------



## browser

Ok that's fair. 

I went back to JBs post and reread it and there are a few things that don't make sense.

For example "The attorney would not represent him because the attorney knows he would be financially ruined in a divorce".

What divorce attorney gives a crap about the potential financial outcome of a case for a client before deciding whether or not to take the case. 

Each child needs a separate bedroom in order for them to stay overnite? 

@jb02157 I'm sort of on your side here but those two points need further clarification. If you can supply the name of your state or pm it to me I can easily look up whether or not theres any truth to the questionable "one bedroom per child" rule. As far as the attorney not taking your case, that one defies explanation I can't understand why you'd say such a ridiculous thing.


----------



## jb02157

browser said:


> Ok that's fair.
> 
> I went back to JBs post and reread it and there are a few things that don't make sense.
> 
> For example "The attorney would not represent him because the attorney knows he would be financially ruined in a divorce".
> 
> What divorce attorney gives a crap about the potential financial outcome of a case for a client before deciding whether or not to take the case.
> 
> Each child needs a separate bedroom in order for them to stay overnite?
> 
> @jb02157 I'm sort of on your side here but those two points need further clarification. If you can supply the name of your state or pm it to me I can easily look up whether or not theres any truth to the questionable "one bedroom per child" rule. As far as the attorney not taking your case, that one defies explanation I can't understand why you'd say such a ridiculous thing.


There was a Men's Right's Attorney in Chicago I went to see a long time ago that advertised heavily in the Chicago Tribune in the 90's. I don't remember the name of the firm. I told him my situation and he said "I won't take your case because you would be financially ruined if I did." Obviously this particular attorney does give a crap about the financial outcome of his clients. This is not a ridiculous BS statement I came up with however it's something you wouldn't expect. If this guy would have been your average divorce attorney, I would have started divorce proceedings and filed. That is what I was there to do. I have remembered that moment and have taken that advice. From I have seen and read, he's right I would have been ruined. That's why I won't file. The kids would not have have been able to go to college because she would spend all the money on herself. She's even said that she would do that.


----------



## Ynot

Wow about TWENTY years ago you went to see a men's rights attorney! Not recently and not even a divorce attorney? Guess what, a lot has changed in 20 years and DIVORCE attorneys know it. In the meantime, any children you may had at that time (even assuming it was 1999) would now be almost 18 years old. Just admit you would rather live on your knees that die on feet.


----------



## jb02157

Ynot said:


> Wow about TWENTY years ago you went to see a men's rights attorney! Not recently and not even a divorce attorney? Guess what, a lot has changed in 20 years and DIVORCE attorneys know it. In the meantime, any children you may had at that time (even assuming it was 1999) would now be almost 18 years old. Just admit you would rather live on your knees that die on feet.


Yeah things have changed, they've gotten worse. Even if I get divorced now I would lose practically everything. No thanks.


----------



## Ynot

jb02157 said:


> Yeah things have changed, they've gotten worse. Even if I get divorced now I would lose practically everything. No thanks.


Cool! You value your "things" more than your own happiness. But tell me, did you recently channel this "well known men's rights attorney who advertised in the Chicago Tribune back in the 90's" or do you have some actual recent information to go on. Your story becomes more unbelievable with each post you make. 
You do realize that it doesn't do any good to have "things" if you can't enjoy them because you are miserable, or maybe you don't. Go work on your marriage, because at this point it is the only choice you will allow yourself. Oops, my bad, I guess you can remain miserable but have your "stuff" (which you already share with your parasitic SAHM who contributes NOTHING to your life)


----------



## jb02157

Ynot said:


> Cool! You value your "things" more than your own happiness. But tell me, did you recently channel this "well known men's rights attorney who advertised in the Chicago Tribune back in the 90's" or do you have some actual recent information to go on. Your story becomes more unbelievable with each post you make.
> You do realize that it doesn't do any good to have "things" if you can't enjoy them because you are miserable, or maybe you don't. Go work on your marriage, because at this point it is the only choice you will allow yourself. Oops, my bad, I guess you can remain miserable but have your "stuff" (which you already share with your parasitic SAHM who contributes NOTHING to your life)


Fine, you definitely are not going to see things the way I do and that's fine. I'm not going to waste anymore of my time trying to explain them to you. To me a life being financially paralyzed isn't worthwhile and not an option. Not helping the kids through school is not an option. Giving her 70% of everything and let her spend it all on herself is not an option. A life without financial independence to me would not be happy. Of course you don't understand that. I'm not sure what else to say. If you think what I say is a bunch of bull****, fine. Your posts to other people are much more constructive that what you say here.


----------



## browser

If I was you I'd get a second opinion.

Not getting why she'd be entitled to more than half of the marital assets.

Most states don't require child support past 18 so you're probably good there.

You might have to pay some support but that's a very state specific thing as well and the trend in the past 20 years has been less spousal support for shorter durations. Although you're in a long term marriage so that may work against you big time. 

You might lose half your assets but you won't be paying for her anymore.

Might not be as bad as you think.


----------



## Ynot

browser said:


> If I was you I'd get a second opinion.
> 
> Not getting why she'd be entitled to more than half of the marital assets.
> 
> Most states don't require child support past 18 so you're probably good there.
> 
> You might have to pay some support but that's a very state specific thing as well and the trend in the past 20 years has been less spousal support for shorter durations. Although you're in a long term marriage so that may work against you big time.
> 
> You might lose half your assets but you won't be paying for her anymore.
> 
> Might not be as bad as you think.


She already enjoys ALL of his assets, and gets to destroy his happiness in the process. Sounds like she is winning big time due to his excuse making, hand wringing, fear of the unknown and ignorance of reality.


----------



## browser

Ynot said:


> She already enjoys ALL of his assets, and gets to destroy his happiness in the process. Sounds like she is winning big time due to his excuse making, hand wringing, fear of the unknown and ignorance of reality.


 @Ynot

You sound very bitter and that's understandable given that you have posted about losing virtually everything in your divorce. Here on TAM we see a lot of "Well I did it so you can too and if you don't you're a loser" or something like that. What works for one doesn't make it necessarily work for another and there's no right or wrong as you seem to think.

Nobody usually "wins" when a marriage turns sour, it's just a matter of damage control and perhaps who loses "less".

I doubt his wife is enjoying the high life and is intent on destroying his happiness. She's probably as miserable as he is and it doesn't sound like there's a lot of extra cash to throw around.

As far as excuse making and ignorance and all of that, he's not being unrealistic although it might be time for him to get an update from a different attorney given how much time has passed.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> @Ynot
> 
> You sound very bitter and that's understandable given that you have posted about losing virtually everything in your divorce. Here on TAM we see a lot of "Well I did it so you can too and if you don't you're a loser" or something like that. What works for one doesn't make it necessarily work for another and there's no right or wrong as you seem to think.
> 
> Nobody usually "wins" when a marriage turns sour, it's just a matter of damage control and perhaps who loses "less".
> 
> I doubt his wife is enjoying the high life and is intent on destroying his happiness. She's probably as miserable as he is and it doesn't sound like there's a lot of extra cash to throw around.
> 
> As far as excuse making and ignorance and all of that, he's not being unrealistic although it might be time for him to get an update from a different attorney given how much time has passed.


I am not bitter in the least bit. I am just giving JB the same treatment others have gotten when they sit on their azz wringing their hands. I never said his wife was living the "high life" or purposefully destroying his happiness. I said she was already enjoying all of his assets AND destroying his happiness at the same time. Because she is is enjoying his assets. He is already supporting her, regardless of what he imagines. His happiness is being destroyed by her because he is allowing it by staying with some one HE professes to have made his life miserable. You can keep enabling his "non-choice" all you want. This has been going for two years and he refuses to do anything but whine about how he will lose everything, but has made no effort to actually find out (aside from talking to a well known men's rights attorney about 20 years ago) nor do anything to actually improve his situation. I would think in 20 years+/- he could have done something, (created a trust, set up a college fund, etc etc.) But no it is easier to do nothing and whine, especially when he knows some one will come along and enable his inaction by making excuses for him. Maybe you are a sucker. I am not. His story doesn't make any sense, unless you are willing to accept he is just a victim.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> I am not bitter in the least bit.


You sound REALLY bitter not just on this thread but on others but I get that you are unaware of it. 



Ynot said:


> I am just giving JB the same treatment others have gotten when they sit on their azz wringing their hands.


So that makes it right? Because others do it? Seriously you sound like a petulant 6 year old caught with his hand in the cookie jar. "SIS DID IT TOO!"



Ynot said:


> You can keep enabling his "non-choice" all you want.


Who's enabling? Doing the dishes all the time because your partner is too lazy is enabling. Giving suggestions and advice isn't enabling.



Ynot said:


> This has been going for two years and he refuses to do anything but whine about how he will lose everything, but has made no effort to actually find out (aside from talking to a well known men's rights attorney about 20 years ago) nor do anything to actually improve his situation.


Not the choice you or I would make but it doesn't make it wrong. 



Ynot said:


> I would think in 20 years+/- he could have done something, (created a trust, set up a college fund, etc etc.)


Or moved and hidden assets and gradually separated accounts and joint credit cards, etc.



Ynot said:


> But no it is easier to do nothing and whine


Change is scary. No disagreement there.



Ynot said:


> Maybe you are a sucker.


Geez I hope not. Do you think I am?



Ynot said:


> His story doesn't make any sense, unless you are willing to accept he is just a victim.


It doesn't make any sense to YOU. To me it makes perfect sense why someone would be afraid to undergo a divorce due to finances. It happens ALL the time. Go ahead and read up on divorce rates and statistics. and although the numbers vary there's no question that there are large numbers of people who remain married for financial reasons only.

Are they all suckers and victims too? All because they didn't do the "brave" thing like you did and end the marriage at any cost?

Here's a link to get you started. I found it by Google searching "why do people stay married". I got tons of hits, surprisingly enough and "finances" is a top reason. What do you think of that?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/15/why-people-stay-in-unhappy-marriages_n_6330292.html

*Top reason out of 10 for staying in a bad marriage "I have too much to lose". The third most common reason out of top ten: "I can't afford to move out on my own".*

Imagine that.


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## GuyInColorado

It's only money. Can make more tomorrow or marry a rich woman. Nothing is worth staying in a miserable marriage. If you aren't getting your d!ck sucked at least twice a week and getting laid 5x a week, then you aren't living. I lost over $100k in my divorce and paying $800m to the my ex. Worth every damn cent. Had more sex in the last 11 months than I did my previous 35 years on this earth. Thank God I have morals, a $.20 bullet and a good alibi looked like a good option in the beginning.


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## browser

GuyInColorado said:


> It's only money.


I HATE that expression. "It's only money". Yeah until you don't have enough to keep a roof over your head and food on your table. 

Say "It's only money" to the poor slobs living in a shelter or eating in a food pantry or fishing for dinner in a dumpster.



GuyInColorado said:


> Can make more tomorrow or marry a rich woman.


You can make more tomorrow IF you have a job. And even if you do that doesn't mean you'll make enough. The jails are filled with (mostly) men who can't afford to make support payments. You think they'd rather be in jail or living in misery with their exwife?

As far as you can "marry a rich woman".. no comment. Same answer applies to "you can always win the MEGA Million lottery".



GuyInColorado said:


> Nothing is worth staying in a miserable marriage.


That's your opinion. Obviously there are many who don't agree with you and it doesn't make you right and them wrong or vice versa.



GuyInColorado said:


> If you aren't getting your d!ck sucked at least twice a week and getting laid 5x a week, then you aren't living.


I never knew that! I wonder how many of us don't meet your criteria for living.



GuyInColorado said:


> Had more sex in the last 11 months than I did my previous 35 years on this earth.


I bet that's what lots of incarcerated men say as well.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> You sound REALLY bitter not just on this thread but on others but I get that you are unaware of it.
> 
> Maybe because I am not bitter. I guess in today's world calling someone's BS is a sign of bitterness?
> 
> So that makes it right? Because others do it? Seriously you sound like a petulant 6 year old caught with his hand in the cookie jar. "SIS DID IT TOO!"
> 
> No, what makes it right, is that it is needed. Maybe you think coddling someone who has been whining for 2 years is the right thing to do. I don't.
> 
> Who's enabling? Doing the dishes all the time because your partner is too lazy is enabling. Giving suggestions and advice isn't enabling.
> 
> You are enabling by continually defending his inaction AND by criticizing those who who don't
> 
> Not the choice you or I would make but it doesn't make it wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Or moved and hidden assets and gradually separated accounts and joint credit cards, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Change is scary. No disagreement there.
> 
> 
> 
> Geez I hope not. Do you think I am?
> 
> Judging from your continued defense for the indefensible, yes.
> 
> It doesn't make any sense to YOU. To me it makes perfect sense why someone would be afraid to undergo a divorce due to finances. It happens ALL the time. Go ahead and read up on divorce rates and statistics. and although the numbers vary there's no question that there are large numbers of people who remain married for financial reasons only.
> Yep, there a millions of them. The difference is they don't post on forums titled Life After Divorce whining about how much they would lose.
> 
> Are they all suckers and victims too? All because they didn't do the "brave" thing like you did and end the marriage at any cost?
> I didn't end my marriage at any cost. It was ended by my ex. Anything that I lost, however, I more than got back in peace of mind, not to mention being totally in control of my finances and future now.
> Here's a link to get you started. I found it by Google searching "why do people stay married". I got tons of hits, surprisingly enough and "finances" is a top reason. What do you think of that?
> 
> The Top 10 Reasons People Stay In Unhappy Marriages | The Huffington Post
> 
> *Top reason out of 10 for staying in a bad marriage "I have too much to lose". The third most common reason out of top ten: "I can't afford to move out on my own".*
> 
> Imagine that.


Yes, imagine people making excuses like that to remain miserable. Like I said, keep enabling JB. He doesn't want the truth, he just wants validated.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> Maybe because I am not bitter. I guess in today's world calling someone's BS is a sign of bitterness?


It's the "way" you go about giving advice that makes it clear you are bitter. You're almost angry at the guy because he's not doing it your way.



Ynot said:


> No, what makes it right, is that it is needed. Maybe you think coddling someone who has been whining for 2 years is the right thing to do. I don't.


Beating up the guy is not needed. Supporting his decision is not coddling. Things are rather black and white with you @Ynot.



Ynot said:


> You are enabling by continually defending his inaction AND by criticizing those who who don't


This one has run it's course. You say I'm enabling I say I'm not. I'm going to leave this one alone because it's become a circular argument.



Ynot said:


> Judging from your continued defense for the indefensible, yes.


I hereby acknowledge that @Ynot considers me to be a sucker based on my posts on this thread.



Ynot said:


> The difference is they don't post on forums titled Life After Divorce whining about how much they would lose.


OMG we get that he posted in "Life After Divorce" about a topic that is really better off in "Life Before Divorce". This thread was started by me, I welcome posts such as his, if anything your attacks on him are doing more to derail this thread than any of his. I don't mind your posts at all, just pointing out your threadjack which is no better than his "wrong forum post". That much said there are bigger things to worry about than wrong topic threads, such as the price of tea in China. 



Ynot said:


> I didn't end my marriage at any cost. It was ended by my ex


And there we have it folks.

Despite @Ynot's continued preaching, * he didn't even end the his own marriage!!!!*

That's funny.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> It's the "way" you go about giving advice that makes it clear you are bitter. You're almost angry at the guy because he's not doing it your way.
> 
> Actually I couldn't care any less what he does. It is his life. If he wants to waste it because of something he heard from some one 20 years ago, that is his choice. It is also my choice to call his BS. But regardless you confuse my defending myself with me being angry at the guy.
> 
> Beating up the guy is not needed. Supporting his decision is not coddling. Things are rather black and white with you @Ynot.
> 
> As I said, sometimes a 2x4 is needed and when you read two years of the same "woe is me" posts it gets a little old. if you think things are "black and white" for me, you need to learn to read to understand, instead of reading to respond.
> 
> This one has run it's course. You say I'm enabling I say I'm not. I'm going to leave this one alone because it's become a circular argument.
> 
> That is a good choice on your part, because posting excuses for staying in a bad marriage as part of your argument to defend a person who willingly stays in a bad marriage is very enabling
> 
> I hereby acknowledge that @Ynot considers me to be a sucker based on my posts on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> OMG we get that he posted in "Life After Divorce" about a topic that is really better off in "Life Before Divorce". This thread was started by me, I welcome posts such as his, if anything your attacks on him are doing more to derail this thread than any of his. I don't mind your posts at all, just pointing out your threadjack which is no better than his "wrong forum post". That much said there are bigger things to worry about than wrong topic threads, such as the price of tea in China.
> 
> 
> 
> And there we have it folks.
> 
> Despite @Ynot's continued preaching, * he didn't even end the his own marriage!!!!*
> 
> That's funny.


Yes, it was truly hilarious! It would be even funnier if I were preaching, but I guess you know best.


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## GuyInColorado

Let's be honest... If you can't afford to divorce and can't make more money tomorrow, no wonder why the marriage is failing. No woman worth marrying wants to be with a guy that isn't financial independent and can figure out how to make a better life for him and his family. That's a weak guy that is only making excuses.


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## 3Xnocharm

I too have said that Ynot is bitter, it comes through loud and clear when he posts, especially about women. (Ynot, you ARE improving though and taking strides forward  ) However I AM in agreement with him about JB's situation. 

JB you really should consult with an attorney regarding the CURRENT laws and guidelines. We all just really want to see each other happy.


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## browser

GuyInColorado said:


> Let's be honest... If you can't afford to divorce and can't make more money tomorrow, no wonder why the marriage is failing. No woman worth marrying wants to be with a guy that isn't financial independent and can figure out how to make a better life for him and his family. That's a weak guy that is only making excuses.


I'm learning so much on this thread.

I just found out from @GuyInColorado that if a woman is married to a guy who doesn't make all that much money, that marriage is destined for failure because he's weak and no woman wants to be with such a guy. 

This is so educational.



3Xnocharm said:


> I too have said that Ynot is bitter, it comes through loud and clear when he posts, especially about women.


 @Ynot

Sorry buddy, it's two to one against.




Ynot said:


> But regardless you confuse my defending myself with me being angry at the guy.
> 
> As I said, sometimes a 2x4 is needed


So are you defending yourself or hitting the guy with 2x4s?


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## Ynot

browser said:


> I'm learning so much on this thread.
> 
> I just found out from @GuyInColorado that if a woman is married to a guy who doesn't make all that much money, that marriage is destined for failure because he's weak and no woman wants to be with such a guy.
> 
> This is so educational.
> 
> 
> @Ynot
> 
> Sorry buddy, it's two to one against.
> 
> 
> But regardless you confuse my defending myself with me being angry at the guy.
> 
> As I said, sometimes a 2x4 is needed


Hmm, you are too funny. Do you want to count likes on just this thread, or the number of people who have already given JB the same advice? Besides I didn't know JB was a woman. Keep enabling the guy, pretty much everyone else who has been around for a period of time has already heard his schtick and tried to give him advice. Someday maybe you'll see reality.


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## 3Xnocharm

GuyInColorado said:


> It's only money. Can make more tomorrow or marry a rich woman. Nothing is worth staying in a miserable marriage. If you aren't getting your d!ck sucked at least twice a week and getting laid 5x a week, then you aren't living. I lost over $100k in my divorce and paying $800m to the my ex. Worth every damn cent. Had more sex in the last 11 months than I did my previous 35 years on this earth. Thank God I have morals, a $.20 bullet and a good alibi looked like a good option in the beginning.


Guy, your relationship isn't even a year old yet, of COURSE you two are humping like bunnies! JUST WAIT. That will NOT continue after probably the NEXT year. Its the natural course of any relationship... sex slows down. Doesn't mean it STOPS but still. You are in the throes of the honeymoon stage still, this is why I had tried to discourage you two getting engaged just yet.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> Hmm, you are too funny. Do you want to count likes on just this thread, or the number of people who have already given JB the same advice?


I have no interest in doing either one of those things. I was just pointing out that I am not the only forum member that has noted your posts to be bitter.



Ynot said:


> Besides I didn't know JB was a woman.


JB is a woman?? This changes everything.



Ynot said:


> Keep enabling the guy, pretty much everyone else who has been around for a period of time has already heard his schtick and tried to give him advice. Someday maybe you'll see reality.


We've covered the enabling/vs not enabling topic ad nauseum. No further comment.


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## SunCMars

Hope Shimmers said:


> I don't want to speak for Ynot, but I suspect that it is hard for some people to realize that you DO get a choice and that you chose to stay, yet also seem to wish you were divorced. Many people don't get a choice in the matter, and they end up losing not only their partner and in some cases their children, and many of their material things as well. And then they have no choice but to make the best of it and build a new life. I can relate to that as well.
> 
> Those are just my objective thoughts, if it helps.


Yes. most have choices...and most of them are bad for one reason of another.

The choice that many do not have is a FSA, a Financial Security Administration credit card. No funding for fleeing the heat. If you have no family or friends to take you in, temporarily, your' poop is weak. 

That one is hard to overcome. It is hard to be free when your wallet or purse is light.

The other choice that many do not have is [having] clarity of purpose and mental resolve....aka, Will Power. 

Some other choices could be construed to be advantages, but aren't. 

a) The ability to compartmentalize. 
b) The ability to roll with the punches.
c) The ability to forgive when forgiving is not appropriate to the situation. A situational value judgement that works against one's better interests.

Having those abilities [by default] keeps your head below the waterline. The air above the waterline being "The Happy State". Why settle for a life under muddy water, when escape is within your reach?

Settling for less is a poor choice. 

Just saying.


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## Hope Shimmers

SunCMars said:


> Yes. most have choices...and most of them are bad for one reason of another.
> 
> The choice that many do not have is a FSA, a Financial Security Administration credit card. No funding for fleeing the heat. If you have no family or friends to take you in, temporarily, your' poop is weak.
> 
> That one is hard to overcome. It is hard to be free when your wallet or purse is light.
> 
> The other choice that many do not have is [having] clarity of purpose and mental resolve....aka, Will Power.
> 
> Some other choices could be construed to be advantages, but aren't.
> 
> a) The ability to compartmentalize.
> b) The ability to roll with the punches.
> c) The ability to forgive when forgiving is not appropriate to the situation. A situational value judgement that works against one's better interests.
> 
> Having those abilities [by default] keeps your head below the waterline. The air above the waterline being "The Happy State". Why settle for a life under muddy water, when escape is within your reach?
> 
> Settling for less is a poor choice.
> 
> Just saying.


This may be one of the only posts you've ever made that I actually understand. :rofl:


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