# Is STBX really that bad?



## RandomDude

EDIT: New thread -> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-.../130650-rds-official-journal.html#post4882618

EDIT: Situation has been resolved, STBX has now been given the clear hint (see page 5 if interested), thanks guys for your support in this.

STBX seems to be hard at work trying to show me that we can still make things work even thing everything has already gone to hell. She got me a very thoughtful gift today and it was exactly what I needed, she even came over and cooked for me and brought our daughter after school 

(clever, which meant I couldn't kick her out of my apartment)









She's sparked some thought in regards to whether she's worth giving up or worth a shot at least until we divorce next year. I decided to list the good things and bad things about her as a wife, and I hope to get some opinions in regards to this.

PROS
- Can be very loving and affectionate
- We knew each other for a long, long time, with a rich history
- Knew her duties as a mother and as a wife, house was clean most of the time and dinner was always served - she loves cooking
- 100% loyal, not a cheater, trust in this was earned over years
- Still looks good, she wore a pony tail tonight... my fav.
- Non-materialistic, proved herself from day one

CONS
- Was extremely demanding when she didn't get her way; was very manipulative and sinister with games and what not to get her way, demanded sex and started fights if I turned her down
- Equated sex with love, has insecurities from her youth
- Doesn't respect safewords during sex
- Spoiled princess when it comes to work, refuses to find a job, brings up having another baby when I push it, wastes her spare time doing sh-t all
- Was very immature at times despite being older than me

Anyways, she says she's been doing counselling, either than that brief time she spent with an OM post-seperation she hasn't been seeing anyone else. She says she's working through her sex addiction and is coping with living without dependence on sex

But even then, am I really even ready for this crap all over again? I'm enjoying my singledom, but it seems STBX is not letting me have it, and bringing my daughter along to prevent me shutting the door on her face just wasn't cool

*sigh*


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## Married but Happy

It sounds like she's being manipulative again.

Bottom line is how you fee about this, not a list of pros and cons. I notice you left that out, but did say you're enjoying being single.

I think it comes down to, can you live happily without her, and can you live with her flaws if you get back together?


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## RandomDude

Perhaps...

How I feel? Guilty! Guilty because she's doing all this crap but I'm not really recipocating. Is it what she wants me to feel? I dunno...

Can I live happily without her? Yes
Can I live with her flaws (again)? No, but if she is indeed changing... I dunno!



Easier to move on when you don't have someone doing stuff like this trying to win you back or whatever she's intending.


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## ThreeStrikes

Three of the 'cons' are about her sexual desire...which is high.

This is a problem?

It seems your pros outweigh the cons, at least in my mind. Maybe there are some other things that you haven't explained.

What is _*your real*_ issue? Is it that you just want to be single?

I mean, come on! You describe her as a good wife, good mother, with a high sex drive!

The "games" are probably just fitness tests, *which you need to learn how to handle.* All women test you in such ways.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


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## RandomDude

Her high sex drive was a problem because she demanded 3x a day and chucked fits when she didn't get it. It was gradually improved with less fights / less demands but she gave me STs (silent treatments) instead.

**** like this popped up:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/65910-cant-touch-her-if-its-not-sex.html

And what made us seperate since Feb:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/67678-v-day-sex-fight.html


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## Mavash.

ThreeStrikes she's a sex addict. DEMANDED it 3 times a day or she went ballistic. Screaming, crying, pouting, and was just terrible to live with when she didn't get her 'fix'.

And while RD is still young enough to keep up it was getting harder to do each and every day. He began to resent her. She took and took and took giving little in return. It wasn't even about love it was about abuse.


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## RandomDude

Maybe I should test out her demons, put her money where her mouth is (doing counselling... uhuh, learning to live without dependence on sex... uhuh) and see how it turns out? What you think?

It's been... by the gods almost 8 months since I had sex anyway, dunno about her. Wait... this is just my balls speaking >.<


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## RandomDude

Bah bad idea, chances are she'll use it, play cool, satisfy me, pretend pretend she's changed until I move back in. Wait until things are settled again, then BOOM

Demon manifestation again

*sigh*


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## greenpearl

RD, 

To be honest, I have noticed that you are a much more peaceful person now. 

Not like before, came to TAM and showed your frustration every day. 

I think your life is better without her. But who knows? 

Will you be able to find a woman who you know how to handle and have a sweet relationship? I don't know about that. 

A marriage needs two mature people to run so it becomes happy and successful.


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## ThreeStrikes

Mavash. said:


> ThreeStrikes she's a sex addict. DEMANDED it 3 times a day or she went ballistic. Screaming, crying, pouting, and was just terrible to live with when she didn't get her 'fix'.
> 
> And while RD is still young enough to keep up it was getting harder to do each and every day. He began to resent her. She took and took and took giving little in return. It wasn't even about love it was about abuse.


Gotcha! Thought I was missing something 

So basically RD is dealing with a high-conflict, emotionally abusive addict.

And this recent attempt to be nice is a Hoover-move.

How fun.

You know my policy when dealing with partners like this:

GTFO

Let her deal with her own demons. 

Go find a "normal" person to share your life with.


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## RandomDude

The sad thing is that her pros are not very bloody common especially in the big city where I live, add that to the fact that my daughter loves her mum very much, and then with all this nice crap.

Bah... think I'll call it the night, maybe play some GTA 5 for an hour or so for some squishy pedestrian fun, and get my mind off things - benefit of not having a woman!


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## PHTlump

We always advise people that divorce is a long process that can be delayed, or cancelled. If your wife is trying, you don't have much to lose by letting her try. Best case, you keep your family together in a healthier marriage. Worst case, you delay your divorce for a bit.


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## 6301

My first wife had a lot of the same "Cons". She equated sex with love and got mean as a rattle snake when she didn't get it. She was also very immature and had the habit of picking up everyone's flaws and that was how she based if she wanted to be friends with them. 

The sex thing got so bad that she didn't take into consideration that I had to leave the house at 6 am and not get home until 6 pm. I was self employed and put in real hard long hours. I would come home tired, dirty, sweaty and when I took a shower, she would come in, hand me a cup of coffee, then reach in the shower, grab my penis and squeeze. The reason? She wanted to see if any left over sperm would come out because she always thought I was cheating. I wasn't and told her I wasn't but she still did it. 

One night I woke up to an angry woman holding a serrated knife against my penis and her threat of cutting it off if I didn't tell her who I was seeing on the side. 

She became a royal pain in the ass and when we divorced, she still did everything to make my life miserable. She was the one who filed and when I didn't put up a fight for her, things got ugly and she used my daughter as a weapon. My advice. If your happy the way things are, then keep it that way.


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## alte Dame

Do you feel like you still love her?


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## RandomDude

6301 said:


> My first wife had a lot of the same "Cons". She equated sex with love and got mean as a rattle snake when she didn't get it. She was also very immature and had the habit of picking up everyone's flaws and that was how she based if she wanted to be friends with them.
> 
> The sex thing got so bad that she didn't take into consideration that I had to leave the house at 6 am and not get home until 6 pm. I was self employed and put in real hard long hours. I would come home tired, dirty, sweaty and when I took a shower, she would come in, hand me a cup of coffee, then reach in the shower, grab my penis and squeeze. The reason? She wanted to see if any left over sperm would come out because she always thought I was cheating. I wasn't and told her I wasn't but she still did it.
> 
> One night I woke up to an angry woman holding a serrated knife against my penis and her threat of cutting it off if I didn't tell her who I was seeing on the side.
> 
> She became a royal pain in the ass and when we divorced, she still did everything to make my life miserable. She was the one who filed and when I didn't put up a fight for her, things got ugly and she used my daughter as a weapon. My advice. If your happy the way things are, then keep it that way.


Jebus... STBX herself does have that side to her, years ago before marriage she tortured me with a leather strap on my member which traumatised me to this day. She made up for it over time otherwise I wouldn't have got back with her after that, but on V-day it seems apparent she still could not respect safewords even though I banned cuffs for years and gave her that one chance to redeem herself.

I have my own demons as well but she has yet to trigger it. Using my daughter as a weapon definitely would. Hell I hope if I do choose to give it up, that STBX won't force our daughter into this issue. That would be... very... ugly.



> Do you feel like you still love her?


Nope =/
Do I still find her fkable? Yes, but she's like a bloody spider and I'm avoiding her web



> We always advise people that divorce is a long process that can be delayed, or cancelled. If your wife is trying, you don't have much to lose by letting her try. Best case, you keep your family together in a healthier marriage. Worst case, you delay your divorce for a bit.


So, I'll just let continue doing all this stuff for me?
I hate to admit it but her thoughtful gift really annoyed me, bah... it's like I'm being too easily bribed.


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## alte Dame

alte Dame said:


> Do you feel like you still love her?





RandomDude said:


> Nope =/
> Do I still find her fkable? Yes, but she's like a bloody spider and I'm avoiding her web


Jeebus, RD. You're still so young, aren't you? Get your divorce and go have a happier life. I wish that for you.


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## RandomDude

I still have to wait till next year due to law, and in the meantime it seems STBX ain't giving up.

The thing is I want to believe her, it would be nice if all our problems are all gone and that she grew up and what not but... meh, can I trust it? Even if I no longer love her, my daughter would be happiest being in a family again, and if STBX's issues are being resolved through counselling, then we do have a chance. But bah! It's never that straight forward and there's always a catch.

Sick thing is that I'm her target, she doesn't seem to even be trying for other men. She says its because she wants more than just a man, wants a family and what not but I dunno. Maybe I'm just that one nut she simply has to crack, that one itch no? Maybe she's my ultimate nemesis because of it?

Ah hell I should stop speculating... it'll drive me nuts. Going to forget about tonight and worry about the next time I see her. Which is, next weekend! FK CO-PARENTING TO HELL


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## alte Dame

Sometimes it's much simpler: She still loves you, but you no longer love her. This accounts for both your behaviors.

People can change. They are not necessarily locked into who they are when they are 25, so she could indeed change some of her more condemnable ways.

If you don't love her, though, then you should stop the speculation and hand-wringing. Let the year pass, get the divorce and move on. You'll regret getting back together with her if you don't love her the way you should.


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## tracyishere

_ was very manipulative and sinister with games and what not to get her way, _

Everything she did sounds like manipulation to me to "get her way."

Just saying.


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## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> I still have to wait till next year due to law, and in the meantime it seems STBX ain't giving up.
> 
> The thing is I want to believe her, it would be nice if all our problems are all gone and that she grew up and what not but... meh, can I trust it? Even if I no longer love her, my daughter would be happiest being in a family again, and if STBX's issues are being resolved through counselling, then we do have a chance. But bah! It's never that straight forward and there's always a catch.
> 
> Sick thing is that I'm her target, she doesn't seem to even be trying for other men. She says its because she wants more than just a man, wants a family and what not but I dunno. Maybe I'm just that one nut she simply has to crack, that one itch no? Maybe she's my ultimate nemesis because of it?
> 
> Ah hell I should stop speculating... it'll drive me nuts. Going to forget about tonight and worry about the next time I see her. Which is, next weekend! FK CO-PARENTING TO HELL


She's being very manipulative. From what I remember she is a very broken person. It's easy to put on an act when she only sees you for a short period of time. 
I wouldn't trust it. 
My ex tried so hard to convince me that he had changed and worked on himself. I took him back and within a month all the old behaviors were back and some new ones (disappearing and lying). 

It seems like your gut is telling you that this isn't going to work. Trust that. I think in the long run it will be easier on your daughter not to have to get confused with reconciliation and another separation. 

If I were you I would meet somewhere in public. 
I did that with my ex anytime he was picking up my d in my area, it just felt less intrusive.


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## RandomDude

True, yet I haven't really given her a chance to live without me for almost a full year and then see the changes - until now. This could be an opportunity (or a trap)

She doesn't really visit often, and sometimes prefers public meetups from time to time so I wouldn't worry about her at my doorstep all the time. I dunno though...

My gut isn't really telling me much, but it seems to believe that she genuinely wants to change, but it also believes that she overestimates herself when it comes to her own demons. If she was the woman I met years ago before marriage; strong, independent, spirited, then sure ok, I would trust her. But she hasn't been that woman for a long, very long time. Now I noticed my daughter was quite happy last night, but I fear we may be giving her false hope if the divorce is to proceed.

I know I don't love her, yet I will always remember that woman years ago that she was... throughout my late marriage I've noticed I've been loving a ghost, and my wife was just a shell of a woman I once loved. She changed too much for the worst. So with this... yes, there's still hope in that department, but it's far-fetched.

Bah, no idea what to do. So far I'm just letting the divorce process roll itself out unless I have a good reason to stop it. I feel guilty about enjoying my singledom/freedom while my daughter prays to both my god and mum's god for us to be a family again.

That annoys the hell outta me! Now I don't even care what gods think but sometimes I just want tell her to stop wishing for something that may only break her heart in the end. But I doubt that's going to stop her. Sometimes I just wish I can accelerate her growth! She's still so little!


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## 3Xnocharm

This is all manipulation. Dont fall for it, you will be right back here in the same situation a year from now. (or less!)


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## RandomDude

So no one in favor for the off chance that she could possibly change for the better? Well, I'm not in favor of that either I guess

Meh

EDIT: Nevermind


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## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> So no one in favor for the off chance that she could possibly change for the better? Well, I'm not in favor of that either I guess
> 
> Meh
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind


She seems very disturbed. Her sadism, escort past, anger and sex issues point to a deep seated mental issue.


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## RandomDude

I wouldn't have any problems with any of it as long as she kept her own demons in check which she didn't. I've kept my own demons in check over the years staying out of violent crime and jail since marriage and my daughter.

The thing is, if only she learnt how to keep her demons in check... if only. It's just an utter shame. My demon is hate, hers is lust. We all have our skeletons in the closet, but FFS why can't she just be stronger?!


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## julianne

My feeling? Real change is very difficult and it sounds like she has a lot of issues. I would probably protect myself psychologically from emotionally getting involved again.


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## COGypsy

I would be protecting myself legally. If you reconcile and move back in together, wouldn't that reset the required year of separation? So you could live together for a month or two, call it quits again and have to wait a whole year again until you could be rid of her, have to renegotiate the settlement etc.


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## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> I wouldn't have any problems with any of it as long as she kept her own demons in check which she didn't. I've kept my own demons in check over the years staying out of violent crime and jail since marriage and my daughter.
> 
> The thing is, if only she learnt how to keep her demons in check... if only. It's just an utter shame. My demon is hate, hers is lust. We all have our skeletons in the closet, but FFS why can't she just be stronger?!


Her demon is more than lust. She has a sadistic streak. And just some of the things you said that she said made her sound like she has BPD or other personality disorder. You don't just get over that.


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## 6301

The sex with my first wife was good. She did everything that you could possibly do but if one time was good, twice was better and three times????????? It got to a point where sex wasn't a pleasurable fun experience. It became a job. Combine that with someone who never had too many good things to say to me or anybody else and a temper which she would say some of the ugliest things possible, stay pissed for two or three days and then when she wasn't angry any longer, she still had to bring it up. Sum it up like this. Fat lot of good sex is when your having it with someone who makes your life miserable day in and day out. Friend, it isn't worth it. 

Sad part about it is I remarried a few years later to a really nice quiet woman with no temper but her sex drive was stuck in low gear. Why couldn't I find something in between.


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## RandomDude

@Diwali123 

Aye, but outside of sex (which by itself took up ~10-20% of our daily awake routine in the past), as long as she got her fix; she was very functional. As long as she got her fix she was a great person, was my best friend, my lover, a good wife and mother in the past. That's what sh-ts me about her.

Now sure, we had major religious issues in the past, but even that was tied in with her nymphomania and her escort past - she turned to her god for help and for the most part she was fine until the churchie elitist culture got into her. The thing is, she just has so much potential to be better than this. I've seen her better than this once upon a time.

So hell I want to believe her and hope for a family again with my daughter happy and forfilling my promise to her that she won't relive what I lived in my childhood (which is an epic fail)... now ok sure I no longer love her mum, but my heart is hardened who knows what may happen IF it softens?

She does want to be a good person and I know she does, hell she's even actually a very honest and upfront person even if she does omit the truth and misdirect at times but I do that too. But her demons... bah! Yes, I shouldn't trust this... and yes, I would hate to have to reset the whole damn year again. But damn! It's just annoying come to think of it.

Looking back, it was me who sent everything to hell by insisting on sexual abstinence. Like forcing an addict to go cold turkey so she went bonkers enough to want divorce. We were working through our issues even though it was slow and felt like going around in circles.
When it comes to the v-day incident she did let me go after I yelled at her - yes, she still disrespected safewords but looking back... maybe she just needed time - time that she has for the last 8 months apparently celibate? (I swear a part of me doesn't even believe it)

Hell I dunno

@6301

Aye, nymphos can be amazing lovers but it gets old fast. For my wife though she was pleasant enough as long as she got her fix... as long as she got her fix, 3x a day, had to perform up to her expectations each time or it didn't count and she would complain. Felt like a sex slave.



> Sad part about it is I remarried a few years later to a really nice quiet woman with no temper but her sex drive was stuck in low gear. Why couldn't I find something in between.


Hell mate, that's one of the reasons I decided to be single nowadays. Being married to the complete opposite - I wouldn't want that either. Finding a woman with HD who isn't nuts + chemistry + all other standards of mine is matter of fact near impossible and no longer worth my effort in even hoping for it. I can't expect to win the lottery so I sure as hell can't expect to find a balanced woman with the pros of my ex and none of the cons. Especially not in this messed up city!

Eventually I came to appreciate the freedom of having only to take care of myself and my daughter without my psycho STBXW. And now she wants to try again? Bah... I dunno mate


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## 6301

I know what you mean. I have been single now for 21 years and I like it that way. I'm now pushing 66 years old next month and have settled in to a groove. I'm retired, and even though my health isn't that good I still enjoy myself.


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## RandomDude

It's peaceful and rather serene eh? Best thing is I can come home after work and do whatever the hell I want! Hell come to think of it, don't think me and STBX have a chance considering I'm enjoying this too much.


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## tracyishere

Lol. You're gonna make all the men here want to be single. Shhhhhhh!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2

Dude, you just won't let go and move on. You can't live without drama. I guess without your ex- you can't get that high intensity angst you so desperately need. 

Get into therapy. Fix yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wtf2012

RandomDude said:


> STBX seems to be hard at work trying to show me that we can still make things work even thing everything has already gone to hell. She got me a very thoughtful gift today and it was exactly what I needed, she even came over and cooked for me and brought our daughter after school
> 
> (clever, which meant I couldn't kick her out of my apartment)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's sparked some thought in regards to whether she's worth giving up or worth a shot at least until we divorce next year. I decided to list the good things and bad things about her as a wife, and I hope to get some opinions in regards to this.
> 
> PROS
> - Can be very loving and affectionate
> - We knew each other for a long, long time, with a rich history
> - Knew her duties as a mother and as a wife, house was clean most of the time and dinner was always served - she loves cooking
> - 100% loyal, not a cheater, trust in this was earned over years
> - Still looks good, she wore a pony tail tonight... my fav.
> - Non-materialistic, proved herself from day one
> 
> CONS
> - Was extremely demanding when she didn't get her way; was very manipulative and sinister with games and what not to get her way, demanded sex and started fights if I turned her down
> - Equated sex with love, has insecurities from her youth
> - Doesn't respect safewords during sex
> - Spoiled princess when it comes to work, refuses to find a job, brings up having another baby when I push it, wastes her spare time doing sh-t all
> - Was very immature at times despite being older than me
> 
> Anyways, she says she's been doing counselling, either than that brief time she spent with an OM post-seperation she hasn't been seeing anyone else. She says she's working through her sex addiction and is coping with living without dependence on sex
> 
> But even then, am I really even ready for this crap all over again? I'm enjoying my singledom, but it seems STBX is not letting me have it, and bringing my daughter along to prevent me shutting the door on her face just wasn't cool
> 
> *sigh*


Okay I am not a woman. But my honest opinion from what you have written in your various threads. 

I would totally be into your wife.

I mean a good looking, loyal, wife who demands sex 3 times a day and equates sex with love. Holy sh1t sign me up.

I can deal with the princess, manipulation, and laziness if she is looking good while putting out 3 times a day and fulfilling duties as a mother and wife. You say she is not even materialistic. I would jump at a chance to have a wife with her flaws.

Maybe yall aren't matched that well. Not trying to be mean, but maybe you should let her go so she can find someone who is a better match for her. Maybe you will find a better match for you. But in my experience HD attractive women are not loyal or good mothers or wives. If what you say is true and accurate, your wife would be a hot commodity in the sexual markets that I have experienced.


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## RandomDude

clipclop2 said:


> Dude, you just won't let go and move on. You can't live without drama. I guess without your ex- you can't get that high intensity angst you so desperately need.
> 
> Get into therapy. Fix yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yet I'm happy where I'm at being single, living a drama-free life, so I don't get where you are coming from. I'm not exactly jumping for joy over STBX either.



> Okay I am not a woman. But my honest opinion from what you have written in your various threads.
> 
> I would totally be into your wife.
> 
> I mean a good looking, loyal, wife who demands sex 3 times a day and equates sex with love. Holy sh1t sign me up.
> 
> I can deal with the princess, manipulation, and laziness if she is looking good while putting out 3 times a day and fulfilling duties as a mother and wife. You say she is not even materialistic. I would jump at a chance to have a wife with her flaws.
> 
> Maybe yall aren't matched that well. Not trying to be mean, but maybe you should let her go so she can find someone who is a better match for her. Maybe you will find a better match for you. But in my experience HD attractive women are not loyal or good mothers or wives. If what you say is true and accurate, your wife would be a hot commodity in the sexual markets that I have experienced.


I've already let her go, I didn't initiate this attempt at reconciliation. Her persistence however is getting to me. Maybe she'll get the hint once the papers are signed. She probably could find someone more compatible and I would be happy for her if she does. One major problem that I guess have always held her back was her sexual history especially with her past as an escort.

If someone else can look past that, like I did, and can also look past her intense drive and come to appreciate it, then they will find themselves a loyal, caring wife and mother. But I can't, she's just too much for me.


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## 3Xnocharm

wtf2012 said:


> Okay I am not a woman. But my honest opinion from what you have written in your various threads.
> 
> I would totally be into your wife.
> 
> I mean a good looking, loyal, wife who demands sex 3 times a day and equates sex with love. Holy sh1t sign me up.
> 
> I can deal with the princess, manipulation, and laziness if she is looking good while putting out 3 times a day and fulfilling duties as a mother and wife. You say she is not even materialistic. I would jump at a chance to have a wife with her flaws.
> 
> Maybe yall aren't matched that well. Not trying to be mean, but maybe you should let her go so she can find someone who is a better match for her. Maybe you will find a better match for you. But in my experience HD attractive women are not loyal or good mothers or wives. If what you say is true and accurate, your wife would be a hot commodity in the sexual markets that I have experienced.


Wow, no offense...but this is pretty shallow!


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## JustHer

RandomDude, I read your posts and am reminded that it is just as hard for men to travel into the unknown future and leave the familiar past as it is for women.

What are the laws in your state, country if you two were to seriously date and have sex while waiting for the divorce?

It seems to me that the only way to lay this to rest is to try to move forward with her. Then, you will be able to truly see what she is capable of.

The thing that concerns me is that you readily admit you don't love her. There is a possibility that if she can embrace that person you once knew your love would come back, but if she can't? That is why a trial run would be good.


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## RandomDude

We have to prove that the marriage is beyond reconciliation through seperation for a year. It's very simple here in Australia, no-fault divorce as well which many may also consider a problem but I'm more pissed about the waiting. We've already split our finances, she inherited our house and more than half our assets because I didn't want to risk losing my business. 

She agreed to a post-nuptial agreement and didn't even care about it - I even had to push her to take the bloody house and my assets as compensation for her work throughout the years as a housekeeper and mother. It saddened me a bit because I knew I was leaving behind a non-materialistic woman, a very rare quality especially here in the big city. Guess I was over generous but I did insist the savings goes towards our financial plan for our daughter which we agreed upon. Besides, I don't really spend much anyways and my business is still rolling in cash.

Only problem is that right now I'm under alot of pressure from my shareholders to expand when quite frankly it's not in my best interest and I don't have the capital to buy them out thanks to this divorce.

I don't know about the trial run, I only agreed to be friends again. Still... hell I don't know as I'm also quite content with being single and my newfound freedom not to mention I'm quite hardened towards romantic interaction at present times. STBX wants us to be a family again, says she's doing counselling and all that jazz, that she still loves me and will never give up on us and whatever. If we try again and we fail, I'll only break her heart again, confuse my daughter as well.

And no, if she can't embrace that strong woman that she was before bible college back in the day (that's what began our long slide into all this crap), no, I don't think I can ever love her again. Not to mention its not just sex, I want her to stop being so fking lazy - I can't respect her like this, she still has no income either than from her parents despite her promise that the money is going towards our daughter.

Bah... complications... I still dunno =/


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## tracyishere

I don't think anyone enters into marriage thinking they would ever leave. It is not unusual to want to stay, in fact, I think it is quite honourable of you. 

I don't know your story, and the details of your wife. But you do. And you probably could tell whether or not she's changing. 

You don't have to make a decision right now. Perhaps what you should do is make a list of the things you want to see changed. If she is putting effort into those things, maybe she isn't being manipulative. I'd say trust your gut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude

Er, I don't want to stay =/ lol I'm pushing for D! I'm just reconsidering somewhat in my head because of recent events.

Though, making a list of what I want changed... well, since seperation I have yet to come out and just say "GET A FKING JOB NOW! The money won't last forever!"... alright, maybe I'll do that the next time I see her (nicely of course)

That would be the first step, and if she tumbles than hey... saves us both the time


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## tracyishere

You make no sense to me. Why did you start this thread then if you already know it's over? Why did you say you just dunno? Yet as soon as someone mentions staying you shun that idea. I think you know it is over and are just trying to justify it and make peace with it. And that's ok too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude

Because recent events have got me thinking, and the idea of being single is still more attractive to me then reconciliation with my wife but I know it's due to selfish reasons. In the off chance that my wife does change, and I still leave her behind, I know I will regret it. Not to mention I'm not really over my guilt over breaking my promise to my daughter.

Yet... some may say that I'm already setting her up to fail considering that she's been out of work for 5 years now and has no real education that can be put to use. Bah, maybe asking her to get a job is just too much to ask. Or is it?

Or studies... hell she should at least just do SOMETHING


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## tracyishere

Why does her being unemployed bother you so much?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustHer

You don't have to move back in to give it a good trial run. This can be done by dating and spending time at your place - without your daughter. There is no reason your daughter needs to get involved. If you and your wife can agree to keep it between the two of you until you see which direction it will go.

I think if you were up front with you wife, let her know that you don't think it is going to work but are willing to spend more time with her she will understand.

How old is your daughter? Isn't your wife a sahm? Why do you think she is lazy, I thought she worked a good day at home?


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## RandomDude

She no longer has my income, is past 30, went from dependent on me to becoming dependent on her parents, setting a poor example for my daughter. Yet years ago before marriage she had dreams, aspirations, worked towards her goals even though it wasn't anything money-related (she wanted to open up her own ministry to counsel those who went through her experience)

Her dreams ceased to exist as her faith became shaky after our issues during her time in bible college which I initially supported her in. Now even during those times she was quite active in her church, she worked for charitable causes and not to mention her talents as a public speaker and marketer. She would easily do well in direct marketing; a job not many can handle.

Anything that requires her to be up on stage, or to sell a product, or to lead a group, she would do well in. But no, she's wasting it all away since marriage! I can't respect a woman like that. And such, I can't love a woman like that. I've been loving a shell for YEARS.


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## JustHer

I can see where you are coming from. I can also see where she may be coming from. She put all her passion into this dream that didn't work out. She then became a wife and mother and switched her passion to that. She is doing something, and has been. Even you said she kept the house fairly clean, cooked every night and was a good mom. That is a lot of work.

It will take some time for her to find a new passion, (and from what you have posted she doesn't want to). If she is still passionate about being a wife and mother it will be difficult and take time to refocus on something else.

Maybe she is not a shell, but you just haven't been able to see her for what she really is????

I am a SAHM and absolutely enjoy it. There are days when I envy those who get to go off to work, but just because my work is at home doesn't mean I am a shell. And yes, I have an education too.


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## RandomDude

The house routine took 2 hours a week including bedrooms, kitchen, bathrooms, living areas, etc etc - we achieved this by maintaining cleaniness so it never piled up not to mention I've trained her in systematic work (I do the same at work). Gardening tends to end up being my job though or we hire externally, our daughter's already in school, so in the end she has ALOT of free time and spends it all living carefree when she's out with friends or lazing about at home playing games (which ironically I got her into).

We have ONE child.

*sigh* I dunno, I guess I just miss that woman she used to be, spirited, determined, active. Now she has her feet up. Bah, then she says I have my feet up too - wait until it gets busy as hell during peak seasons at my business! Another reason why I wanted her to get a job or do something else is tied in with her sexual demands, all that energy - USE IT constructively. Bah!

*sigh*


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## soulseer

wanting sex would be a positive in my book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude

Alright, I just had a deeper think about what you said...

Maybe you're right, maybe I just can't see her for who she really is. Hell... quite frankly if the sex issue is solved, then perhaps we can sort everything else out. As I said, one of the reasons I wanted her to get a job is to reduce her demands.

But then again maybe not, maybe I'm just not cut out for SAHMs.


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## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> Alright, I just had a deeper think about what you said...
> 
> Maybe you're right, maybe I just can't see her for who she really is. Hell... quite frankly if the sex issue is solved, then perhaps we can sort everything else out. As I said, one of the reasons I wanted her to get a job is to reduce her demands.
> 
> But then again maybe not, maybe I'm just not cut out for SAHMs.


Anytime someone mentions potential it's a huge red flag to me. You want someone who is great or no one at all. Not someone who might maybe possibly be great but probably won't be. 

You sound so much more calm and centered now. 
I would think after earning money from sex it would be a tough transition into the work force. That's not really something you can put on your resume.


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## RandomDude

Well I didn't exactly put debt collections, assaults, armed robberies, drug runs etc into my resume either when I was looking for work 
Besides, I've been in direct marketing before, it requires no formal education to get started and knowing my wife's strengths and skills she could easily excel at it.

Personally though perhaps this is just one of my flaws and major differences between my wife and I that JustHer has touched on; I grew up on the street, everything I earned I earnt through blood and sweat. I didn't inherit my business I started from lowly sh-tkicker, rose to supervisor, management, partner now full owner, expanded my business to the point I'm now living a comparatively easy life. 

STBX has never experienced financial hardship as I have, always had a cushion when she was in trouble; her parents. She didn't even get into the business of escort work for the money, yet she charged extravagant sums; more than 50% than the average fee for her services. She was very young back then, I met her when she already decided to be a "nun" at church.

But enough of her past, my criminal history does not make me the man I am today and nor does STBX's past as an escort. We have much more important issues in the present. And quite frankly I still don't know what to do with her.

So far I've been staying up thinking about the trail run.


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## RandomDude

Meditated for some time this morning, yeah I know... doesn't sound like me. Still, I need to make a decision, or at least get closer to coming to a decision based on what's been happening and the advice thus far. So hey, I first decided to reach in and see if there's anything still there, feelings, care, compassion, all that lovey dovey crap. And well... meh. It all points to the woman she used to be.

I feel nothing for who she is now. Truth is, the love is gone. I either have to learn to respect who she is now, or she has to re-earn my respect. Both scenarios are unlikely, unless you guys can somehow help me with the former. I don't know about her changes or whatever she's doing in regards to her sexuality, that's her business and it doesn't involve me. Hence I wouldn't be able to test this without a trail run.

And hey, she wants a family again, wants our daughter's prayer to be answered and what not. Thankfully STBX has not made any promises to her on my behalf - she still has some functional brain cells I see - cause that would seriously p-ss me the fk off. 

And hell neglecting all this for the sake of continuing my freedom seems... selfish and irresponsible to me. I get that she has come to realise that she can't let her pride blind her on reality, I get that she is doing what she can to fix things, but what she's doing now isn't going to cut it. Meh

I pity the woman, I truly do. I used to admire her. I feel guilty over what I've done to her. Part of me just wants to close this book and forget about it all but I can't. I can never truly be free again having to see her fking face every week especially when she's stubborn enough to even want to reconcile despite all that has happened. BAH!

Ah hell nvm me... just ranting so I don't rant in RL
Now I'm just p-ssed off for no real apparent reason


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## RandomDude

Alright guys, I've made my decision. I'm sticking with the D. I'm going to call her now and arrange for a meetup while she's still free, and let her know I'm no longer going to entertain the idea of reconciliation. Wish me luck.


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## forumman83

RandomDude said:


> CONS
> - Was extremely demanding when she didn't get her way; was very manipulative and sinister with games and what not


How is this any different than any other time. She is clearly USO g kindness and possibly sex to manipulate you and, clearly, it is working. 

If you fall for it again you will soon find yourself back at square 1. How do I know this?

Cuz I did the same thing! Don't fall for it, man.


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## JustHer

RandomDude said:


> Alright guys, I've made my decision. I'm sticking with the D. I'm going to call her now and arrange for a meetup while she's still free, and let her know I'm no longer going to entertain the idea of reconciliation. Wish me luck.


Good Luck Dude...........ray: We'll be prayin for you.


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## Decorum

Hi Dude,

Has she done any counseling? She needs to get her own life (as you know). Can her parents prevail upon her to improve her lot?


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## RandomDude

She is doing counselling, but yes, she needs to get her own life, hence my decision. It was a really long 'lunch'... anyways I reminded her about where we stood, how I'm not ready to re-commit, how I'm not in love with her, etc etc. I also told her that I don't want her to do all these things for me when I've already moved on. That we've tried and tried and we've already reached the end so it's best for us both to let go.

She wasn't very happy to hear my decision, but didn't say anything for a while. We just sat there silent for quite some time. Awkward really. She also lost her appetite. Then she asked me to be honest, and that if our relationship was a lie. I told her it wasn't, that I did love her at one point, but I can't love who she is now and that she deserves to be with someone who can. Our conversation was weird, like short exchanges followed by long breaks of silence with us both just sitting there not even eating. She then asked very short questions like how I felt about our daughter, asked if I found her undesirable etc etc, told me that she and our daughter has been praying for me to come home. And I told her that it shouldn't matter what I think about her but how she feels about herself (in reference to her desirability question). We had to excuse ourselves at this point.

Judging by her reaction, and how she didn't try to taunt or manipulate me further. I guess she was telling the truth that she has grown up abit... but still...

So we took our conversation to my car and I drove her back to my office where she parked. She was crying so I sat in the car with her until she was ready to go, wasn't going to be a prick. I asked if she's going to be alright and she said no. So I stayed with her a little longer (lucky I'd already taken care of business for the day!). Then she said she underestimated me, that she never thought I could harden my heart towards her like this. I didn't respond, what could I say? Eventually though she felt better, I asked again if she's going to be alright, and she finally said that she will be. And that was that. 

I haven't heard from her since, I'll give her some time to digest it all. I hope I've made the right decision, as in the end, I just don't love her, our daughter will cope. She needs some time alone, learn to spread her wings again. I need to give her that chance. She can't do it being with me IMO. My daughter needs to see what a strong woman looks like, and I don't want her mum continuing to kiss my feet when I can't offer her anything in return. Nah, I needed to let her go even if it meant I had to push her, which I guess I did.

So yeah, guess this is what I feel is best for her, for me, and for my daughter. Thoughts? It's always a pain in the ass breaking someone's heart.


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## JustHer

Sounds like you handled it very well. Looks like she is not the only one growing up.........


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## RandomDude

Thanks, I admit though... I was thinking of dropping it as I did feel something towards the end, but it was pity love. Maybe should have given her breakup sex too but chances are that wouldn't have ended well - and probably confuse her more. I'll give her a call tomorrow to make sure she's alright.


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## BruisedGirl

RandomDude said:


> Thanks, I admit though... I was thinking of dropping it as I did feel something towards the end, but it was pity love. Maybe should have given her breakup sex too but chances are that wouldn't have ended well - and probably confuse her more. I'll give her a call tomorrow to make sure she's alright.


I don't think it's pity love, RD. I think somewhere, deep down, you do love her. Who she use to be and maybe even some of who she is now. But, you're scared. And rightfully so.

Just curious if you've ever said these words directly to her:



> I will always remember that woman years ago that she was... throughout my late marriage I've noticed I've been loving a ghost, and my wife was just a shell of a woman I once loved. She changed too much for the worst.


If so, how did she respond? If not, why?


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## RandomDude

Yes I have, many times, she responded insisting that she's still the same woman, and that she's not that young girl anymore, and that I should stop living in the past bringing up who she used to be, and that I should be accepting her as the woman she's become, that she's a mother and wife now, yada yada yada and that I'm a husband and father too so hence I should stop living in the past etc etc.

The woman she used to be was never so demanding and needy! So meh


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## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> Thanks, I admit though... I was thinking of dropping it as I did feel something towards the end, but it was pity love. Maybe should have given her breakup sex too but chances are that wouldn't have ended well - and probably confuse her more. I'll give her a call tomorrow to make sure she's alright.


Sounds like you did the right thing. She shouldn't be putting your daughter in the middle like that!


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## RandomDude

Aye, and now thankfully she's realised that bringing our daughter into this aint going to work. I have faith in my daughter however, she'll cope and has been coping well for quite some time. She's tough (like her daddy - heh sorry... shameless self-praise I know!  )


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## RandomDude

I just gave her a call, been thinking/worried about her all morning. She said she was fine, our daughter's fine though I told her I'll be picking her up after school today, I want to see for myself. She was fine with that.

I'm making a conscious effort to tell myself that this was for the best. It just sucks really, as I'm feeling guilty over it all, but I guess I would be feeling more guilty if she kept doing all this crap and if I would have to break it to her later. She should be gearing up for the divorce, not hoping for reconciliation.

Though... a part of me is hoping this serves as a wakeup call for her to start focusing on herself (one of the main reasons why I also came to this decision), and if she does then... who knows by next year? If she can earn back my respect, then there's a chance. If she moves on and such - which she's supposed to be doing all this time, then fine.

Been thinking "what have I done?" Despite the BS she put me through I hate having to see her cry. Especially when we met up she was all dressed up, looking good, and then with makeup smudged all over her face. Sad. Even though I don't love the woman she is now, I know who she used to be, and everytime I hurt her it's like I'm also hurting the woman I used to love.

Bleh... not feeling good today. Got my chef to cook my fav, hopefully that will cheer me up. Anyways, have work to do... need to focus somehow.


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## Decorum

RandomDude said:


> I'm making a conscious effort to tell myself that this was for the best. ...... a part of me is hoping this serves as a wakeup call for her to start focusing on herself (one of the main reasons why I also came to this decision), and if she does then... who knows by next year? If she can earn back my respect, then there's a chance. If she moves on and such - which she's supposed to be doing all this time, then fine.


:iagree:

I respect what you did Dude, it was hard but you did the best thing for her. Hopefully she will spread her wings.

Peace!


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## RandomDude

Thanks... I do hope that is the case

Funny though, I'm depressed as fk today. When I told her to F off the last time, she had an attitude, gave me a good reason to do so, was unapologetic, defended her reasons for not respecting safewords back in Feb. This time though, and based on how she has been since 'raising the white flag', and especially yesterday... it's tough.

It was obvious she still has issues, her esteem still seemed dependent on me (hence what I said to her yesterday), but I guess looking back, her intentions may have been genuine, alright - I get that she does want to fix things, that ok, maybe she does still have lovey dovey feelings. But love just ain't enough... and especially when my gut tells me that her co-dependent love is damaging her as much as it has been damaging me...

But now all these memories flooding back, all the good times, even the bad times, we were best friends once, dedicated lovers, we stood side by side and overcame anything that tried to split us apart from religion, family, society, bleh! But what I did yesterday was shut the door. I've really ended it, even though the divorce is to be next year.

And now suddenly, I'm realising what I've lost. Maybe I do still love her after all. *sigh* But even then, I do believe she needs to go, for all the reasons described. Oh well...


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## RandomDude

And another thing...










They are continually telling me "You FKING idiot" for what I've done. Hell I need to get laid


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## sinnister

Why try again. You don't love her anymore. You've stated this more than once. Don't give her false hope.


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## Decorum

RandomDude said:


> Thanks... I do hope that is the case
> 
> Funny though, I'm depressed as fk today. When I told her to F off the last time, she had an attitude, gave me a good reason to do so, was unapologetic, defended her reasons for not respecting safewords back in Feb. This time though, and based on how she has been since 'raising the white flag', and especially yesterday... it's tough.
> 
> It was obvious she still has issues, her esteem still seemed dependent on me (hence what I said to her yesterday), but I guess looking back, her intentions may have been genuine, alright - I get that she does want to fix things, that ok, maybe she does still have lovey dovey feelings. But love just ain't enough... and especially when my gut tells me that her co-dependent love is damaging her as much as it has been damaging me...
> 
> But now all these memories flooding back, all the good times, even the bad times, we were best friends once, dedicated lovers, we stood side by side and overcame anything that tried to split us apart from religion, family, society, bleh! But what I did yesterday was shut the door. I've really ended it, even though the divorce is to be next year.
> 
> And now suddenly, I'm realising what I've lost. Maybe I do still love her after all. *sigh* But even then, I do believe she needs to go, for all the reasons described. Oh well...



Dude, anyone of us could have told you how you would feel today, and you could have told someone else on a different day, you know, really.

That does not make it any easier. (And yeah your feelings are real, but so is the true nature of the situation.)


I dont think there is anything wrong living your life while taking a wait and see attitude, just dont abide on false hope.

The only door that shuts permanently is the one on your coffin!

issed: Gosh I am a bit grim today, eh?


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## RandomDude

Thanks, I am feeling better about it today though. My daughter seems clueless about the whole thing, which is good - as I was worried about STBX's influence, but thankfully she's keeping her out of it now. As long as I dwell on this too much I should be fine.

I'm hardening back up, just a moment of weakness yesterday, I'll be alright. Thanks though


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## Mia13

You know, feelings are just that, feelings and they come and go. You can fall back in love with someone, depends if you want that, depends of the circumstances depends on how they change...
Do you feel fulfilled without your family?


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## RandomDude

Well, even with my daughter with me right now playing with our cat, nope, I don't feel fulfilled. But I can live without an intact family if that is necessary besides I never had one.


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## deejov

RD
I remember when your avatar was Drama King.
She's come a long way in her life. Maybe she is even doing her BEST right now.

It's okay to say it's still not aligned with what you want out of life. You've both changed. You are no longer the Drama King, I dare to say!

There is always tomorrow. Be kind.


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## lifeistooshort

RD, another thing to think about is this: your wife is a sex addict that equates sex with love, according to your posts. That's tough enough for her to deal with; now imagine that you go back to her even though you don't love her. She's going to pick up on that and the sex addiction will spiral out of control as she tries to get reassurances that you have feelings for her. Even if she knows you don't, since she equates sex and love she'll convince herself that if she can have enough sex with you you'll love her again. I don't see how she can address her addiction while in that situation. It's better for her if you stay apart; should you ever develop real feelings for her you can revisit this, but in the mean time you shouldn't put your life on hold.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude

Thanks Deejov, well, we are older now I guess. Still babies sometimes though.

@lifeistooshort

Aye, I agree. Just sucks that's all, because quite frankly, among all the women that I was compatible with, she was still the best. Deep down she does have a heart, and she does have principles which she fiercely upholds; loyalty for instance.

I can never really connect with normal, well brought-up women, my tainted past/mentality/experiences can never relate to those whose lives have never been tainted. She was the one woman I could share everything with.

I may not feel for her now, but at the very least, I acknowledge her contributions to my life, not to mention giving me a reason to stay alive, out of trouble, and to succeed; my daughter. If I never met my wife I doubt I would have ended up owning my own business as well.

Meh


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## Decorum

deejov said:


> RD
> I remember when your avatar was Drama King.
> She's come a long way in her life. Maybe she is even doing her BEST right now.
> 
> It's okay to say it's still not aligned with what you want out of life. You've both changed. You are no longer the Drama King, I dare to say!
> 
> There is always tomorrow. Be kind.


Ha Ha Ha I remember that to. Dude, you carry yourself very well on TAM now, I laugh at your one liners all the time too.

I know you feel like crap from time to time, but there is a peace to your posts that was missing when you were all stressed out.

I think you have both come a long way, Dude I sense much more compassion in your perspectives, so kudos.


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## RandomDude

Really? Half the time I'm thinking people are shaking their heads at what I post lol

Thanks though, guess I do feel more at peace nowadays.


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## deejov

DramaKing to Meh.
I love it!!! I bet the ladies do too


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## RandomDude

Eh? Oh come on don't make me blush


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## MarriedWifeInLove

I'm sorry, but coming from a woman's POV, when I look at your PROs vs CONs list, I don't see a real big issue.

Her PROs actually outweigh the CONs unless I'm missing something really big here.

Everybody has CONs, I'm sure your list ain't pretty either. In marriage, as in any relationship, you have to decide if the CONs are something you can overlook - that is where the real test is. If you can, then you move on - you are never actually going to be able to change all someone's CONs on a list - some of those things are ingrained into who they are or their personality. If you expect to change everything about a person that you don't like, then you have set yourself up for failure from the beginning.

And I got a news flash for you here - do you even realize how many WOMEN EQUATE SEX WITH LOVE? Probably about 90% would be my guess. Its usually the only way we can tell that a guy likes or loves us is if he is having sex with us. Hell, I'm 53 years old and still equate sex with love. If you expect to change that - probably never gonna happen. What you could have done instead is when you realized that she equated sex with love is work within those confines to ensure that she knew you loved her in a way that she understood. My guess is you really didn't try. And withholding sex from her was the same as slapping her - same end result. 

MEN - you guys just haven't figured it out yet and until you do - I guess we will all be on this merry-go-round for years to come.

I guess there's a reason that Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus is such a popular book. You have men giving you advice that know nothing about women and vice versa.

All I can say is good luck...hate to see a family broken up--but if you are not going to try to figure her out and help her from a "woman's point of view" and not from a male perspective, then you will never get anywhere.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

RandomDude said:


> Thanks Deejov, well, we are older now I guess. Still babies sometimes though.
> 
> @lifeistooshort
> 
> Aye, I agree. Just sucks that's all, because quite frankly, among all the women that I was compatible with, she was still the best. Deep down she does have a heart, and she does have principles which she fiercely upholds; loyalty for instance.
> 
> I can never really connect with normal, well brought-up women, my tainted past/mentality/experiences can never relate to those whose lives have never been tainted. She was the one woman I could share everything with.
> 
> I may not feel for her now, but at the very least, I acknowledge her contributions to my life, not to mention giving me a reason to stay alive, out of trouble, and to succeed; my daughter. If I never met my wife I doubt I would have ended up owning my own business as well.
> 
> Meh


And maybe, while I'm sure she contributed to the demise of the relationship (as it ALWAYS TAKES TWO), you have your own issues. And until you take care of you, then you have no business trying to figure her out or fix her.

Only you can fix you and she can fix herself.

But if you expect perfection...then you need to live alone.

Sorry, just trying to keep it real. At my age, games and talking in circles is over.


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## RandomDude

Hmmm, I guess what bothered me the most about that is that nothing else just seemed to matter to her; aka, she couldn't see other forms of my love.

Like we never had a proper wedding due to the panic set in when the baby bells rang, so I proposed to give her the dream wedding that I thought she had always wanted, but it didn't matter to her. I came home and always wanted to hold/kiss/cuddle/tease/play, but unless it was going to lead to sex she told me I shouldn't even touch her. That's how the sex/love equation became a problem in my marriage.

However, yes, I agree that her pros are a very strong case for her, regardless of her cons. I rejected her a few days ago however for different reasons though, in the hopes that she can learn to love herself without dependence on me, spread her wings, as at the moment I can't bring myself to respect her while she was kissing my feet.

But in doing so, guess I may have lost her forever... I dunno. She does seem alright yesterday when I saw her to pick up my daughter, and today she's still coming over to pick her up for church. As such, I wonder if some of her cons have already been eliminated as well during our months of seperation, she's not playing devil-in-disguise so to speak. Yet I still can't love her unless I come to respect her.

I dunno >.<


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## deejov

She isn't going anywhere, in the sense that you have a daughter together. I think the respect thing might come from learning to have a relationship in that sense. 

There is no right and wrong sometimes. Just what feels right, today. That's all we know for sure, anyways. Practice being kind to each other. That usually leads to whatever is meant to be.


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## RandomDude

Well she's been nice so far and I don't see why I shouldn't return the favor, especially as it doesn't seem to have any strings attached considering she's still nice and not wanting to smack my head in or whatever despite how I made her feel. She's coping I guess. 

Unless of course something happens on D day and someone splits an atom or something. Have to prepare myself for that too.


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## deejov

I can relate to feeling like your life is on hold, and there are days when you just feel like you need to either put both feet in, or close the door. It's frustrating. For me personally, if I have to ask myself what to do, I'm obviously not ready to make that call. 

I'm not emotionally attached (not very much, anyways) so it comes down to matching values and beliefs. What I want in my life is what I will find, when I stop trying to find it in the wrong person. Or the wrong person right in front of me decides to open up to me and show me their true self, again.


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## RandomDude

Yeah I call it "sitting on the fence", but then again it is the law that is dictating our lives be put on hold due to this stupid law that we have to remain seperated for a full year before the divorce can proceed. There's always that hope because of it as well it seems.

A part of me - even now, still feels like saying, FK IT, lets try again, we still have 4 months to spare! Why not! Especially since she finally withdrew her previous stance defending her right to disrespect safewords. But I don't know... and hell I still can't see myself ramming anyone either than my wife, and strangely despite her nymphomania she (apparently) hasn't been fking around either. But quite frankly I don't completely believe her and I doubt she completely believes me either!

Not to mention I would no longer feel like sh-t for breaking the promise that I made to my daughter, who annoyingly wants us all to become a family again, and for daddy to come home and what not. Bah! Them two praying for daddy to come home... what a way to make me feel like sh-t.


----------



## deejov

"Why not" is my heart talking to me. I've learned to listen to it. 

You are not a doormat. If you are capable of having healthy boundaries, there shouldn't be any fear of her slam-sliding you again.

You've grown. It wouldn't be the same shet show, because 1 . you wouldn't allow it 2. you are both different people. 

Using the past to predict the future is okay, if you believe in that. 
I strongly disagree with it. I believe I will have the skills and wisdom to make better choices.


----------



## RandomDude

Well, admittedly we did make alot of progress, until v-day that is. And it's been 8 months... ah hell but anyways I already shut the door didn't I? Like hell even if I wanted to change my mind I can't. It'll just confuse her, I'll look indecisive, she'll prolly hit me over the head for putting her through heartbreak only to change my mind, bah!

Thanks Deejov, but for now, let's not think of what ifs, and let this thread die. What's done has been done, and for what I consider a good reason; as she needs to free herself from me and learn to spread her own wings without my help.


----------



## RandomDude

I hate to reopen this thread, but I don't know. Your words are haunting me Deejov. Yesterday I saw her again, we were civil but she just seems so broken. I've hardened my heart but today, I guess I need a break from keeping my walls up.

I had a fairly decent date with the laundry lady last week, didn't kiss or anything with her. It was just fun. We have another date due this week, and I should be excited but I don't know. People on this forum are telling me what I already know; that I'm not ready for dating, but I don't know what to do about it except play along with my current date until she gives me a good enough reason to dump her.

And perhaps... maybe I found that reason already. For some reason now that my walls are down I miss STBX. The more I think about my date the more I miss my STBX instead WTF????!!!! It's still early in the dating game and I guess I can get away with an early dumping.

But if I do that... hell is it really too late? I can't really go back to STBX now can I? I already let her go... I have to restrain myself from chasing her yes? Why do I feel this way today yet not other times... oh thats right, cause my heart was hardened.

For some reason I just feel so lost today. My daughter asking me when I was coming home isn't helping either. Is our family coming back together simply too much to wish for? Is it wrong to hope? STBX may have been demanding but she was still there when I lost hope especially in our earlier years when I was struggling with my new responsibilities at work. Sure she became very demanding with sex during those times, but despite that, she was always there to pick me up when I lost all hope.

Faith, is one thing that she has that I am incapable of understanding. I've always been a realist, and in that way we complimented each other. Now... I don't know

Meh, ignore me... I just needed to let it out. I'll feel better tomorrow, heart will be hardened back up and I'll probably go "WTF?! Bleh" and forget all about STBX again. Besides, I got a hot date.


----------



## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> I hate to reopen this thread, but I don't know. Your words are haunting me Deejov. Yesterday I saw her again, we were civil but she just seems so broken. I've hardened my heart but today, I guess I need a break from keeping my walls up.
> 
> I had a fairly decent date with the laundry lady last week, didn't kiss or anything with her. It was just fun. We have another date due this week, and I should be excited but I don't know. People on this forum are telling me what I already know; that I'm not ready for dating, but I don't know what to do about it except play along with my current date until she gives me a good enough reason to dump her.
> 
> And perhaps... maybe I found that reason already. For some reason now that my walls are down I miss STBX. The more I think about my date the more I miss my STBX instead WTF????!!!! It's still early in the dating game and I guess I can get away with an early dumping.
> 
> But if I do that... hell is it really too late? I can't really go back to STBX now can I? I already let her go... I have to restrain myself from chasing her yes? Why do I feel this way today yet not other times... oh thats right, cause my heart was hardened.
> 
> For some reason I just feel so lost today. My daughter asking me when I was coming home isn't helping either. Is our family coming back together simply too much to wish for? Is it wrong to hope? STBX may have been demanding but she was still there when I lost hope especially in our earlier years when I was struggling with my new responsibilities at work. Sure she became very demanding with sex during those times, but despite that, she was always there to pick me up when I lost all hope.
> 
> Faith, is one thing that she has that I am incapable of understanding. I've always been a realist, and in that way we complimented each other. Now... I don't know
> 
> Meh, ignore me... I just needed to let it out. I'll feel better tomorrow, heart will be hardened back up and I'll probably go "WTF?! Bleh" and forget all about STBX again. Besides, I got a hot date.


I don't think that people can really understand unless they read your previous threads. I'm sorry but she sounds at best like she has a severe personality disorder and at worst like she's a complete sociopath. 
She tortured you literally. Everytime you wouldn't have sex with her on command she lost her mind. 
You guys were constantly arguing. And you actually sounded sometimes like you were as nutso as she is. But now you sound like a completely different mature sane person.


----------



## Decorum

Give yourself some time.


----------



## RandomDude

But that was past... I don't know about now. She didn't go psycho at me rejecting her or breaking her heart again when I told her I don't love her and that she should move on... well sure, she was emotional but I saw no demon that time. Not to mention she finally also acknowledges her mistake and is repentant of it.

She has maintained civility throughout this seperation and our daughter has avoided alot of drama thanks to that as well. She may have her demons but she's not a complete psychopath otherwise I wouldn't trust her with my daughter, who is actually very well behaved, polite, sweet, and obedient - I have to credit STBX in that regard as she did most of the disciplining while I did most of the spoiling.

I still can't figure out if she has indeed changed or not in recent times. I just don't know... it would be ALOT easier for me if she continued to want to proceed with the divorce but now I'm the only one who's pressing for it and I shot her down at her attempts at reconciliation. Yet despite that, she's still remaining civil.

Ah fk... what am I saying... ok sure, she may be sincere. She has always been sincere when she apologises but she underestimates her own demons at times and during those times it takes over her, and after a while when her "sane self" takes over again she realises what she has done... and this scenario repeats.

She told me that she knew she was wrong for a long time over that incident back in Feb, but she was too proud and stubborn to admit it. She said she only wished that I would trust her again (ironic). She has been doing quite alot of counselling both professional and spiritual through her church. Quite frankly I doubt the effectiveness of the latter but she has put in effort and I have my sources to confirm, trusted sources who are outside her influence (unless she found them and bribed them)

Ah hell I dunno

Bah fk it, should I cancel my next date with the 'laundry lady'? Or maybe I'll feel better if I go out anyways, besides we're not taking it too seriously or anything yet, just fun yeah? Still find it odd that when I think of my date I think of STBX instead. Loyalty mechanism still kicking in? Bah!


----------



## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> But that was past... I don't know about now. She didn't go psycho at me rejecting her or breaking her heart again when I told her I don't love her and that she should move on... well sure, she was emotional but I saw no demon that time. Not to mention she finally also acknowledges her mistake and is repentant of it.
> 
> She has maintained civility throughout this seperation and our daughter has avoided alot of drama thanks to that as well. She may have her demons but she's not a complete psychopath otherwise I wouldn't trust her with my daughter, who is actually very well behaved, polite, sweet, and obedient - I have to credit STBX in that regard as she did most of the disciplining while I did most of the spoiling.
> 
> I still can't figure out if she has indeed changed or not in recent times. I just don't know... it would be ALOT easier for me if she continued to want to proceed with the divorce but now I'm the only one who's pressing for it and I shot her down at her attempts at reconciliation. Yet despite that, she's still remaining civil.
> 
> Ah fk... what am I saying... ok sure, she may be sincere. She has always been sincere when she apologises but she underestimates her own demons at times and during those times it takes over her, and after a while when her "sane self" takes over again she realises what she has done... and this scenario repeats.
> 
> She told me that she knew she was wrong for a long time over that incident back in Feb, but she was too proud and stubborn to admit it. She said she only wished that I would trust her again (ironic). She has been doing quite alot of counselling both professional and spiritual through her church. Quite frankly I doubt the effectiveness of the latter but she has put in effort and I have my sources to confirm, trusted sources who are outside her influence (unless she found them and bribed them)
> 
> Ah hell I dunno
> 
> Bah fk it, should I cancel my next date with the 'laundry lady'? Or maybe I'll feel better if I go out anyways, besides we're not taking it too seriously or anything yet, just fun yeah? Still find it odd that when I think of my date I think of STBX instead. Loyalty mechanism still kicking in? Bah!


The problem is with people like that, they are very good at holding everything in until they get you where they know they have you. Or you get close and committed enough again that all their crap gets triggered again. 
And then the psycho stuff comes out. My ex was a total psycho with me but he isn't like that for the most part with my d. It's got to do with love and sexual adult relationships. 
You really can't predict what they are going to be like until you are back in it, that's what sucks.


----------



## RandomDude

*sigh*

My gut agrees with you, which sucks. Because I DON'T WANT TO FKING believe it!!!!!! 

She's proven time and time again how that demon of hers takes over... a question though, did your ex acknowledge his demon and take steps to work on his problem?


----------



## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> *sigh*
> 
> My gut agrees with you, which sucks. Because I DON'T WANT TO FKING believe it!!!!!!
> 
> She's proven time and time again how that demon of hers takes over... a question though, did your ex acknowledge his demon and take steps to work on his problem?


Of course. He was in therapy for a few months, promised he was working on his anger, told me that he wanted to stop being selfish and focus on us, he wanted to learn about me instead of ignoring me blahblahblah. 

And I took him back even though I didn't love him because I wanted to be a family and I though he might have changed. He started getting irate it stupid shït within weeks, was the same selfish idiot who wouldn't help with d, just wanted to be with his friends, started lying about getting stuck in traffic after work even though he worked two miles from home. 

Turns out he was going over to a male friends house after work because he needed time away from us. 
He was being passive aggressive and playing mind games, then he would get mad at me because I didn't have good enough reasons for taking him back. 
If I were you I would go through with the d. That way after it's over if for some reason the two of you do get back together all you have to do is break up instead of waiting a year to D.


----------



## RandomDude

Alright... you got a point. Guess it's wall up again. Thanks Diwali.

Anyways, guess we'll put this thread to sleep again, until I start having stupid thoughts again. Hopefully my date can distract me this week. Hell can't believe I went out with a starer, at least she's a cute one... bah!


----------



## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> Alright... you got a point. Guess it's wall up again. Thanks Diwali.
> 
> Anyways, guess we'll put this thread to sleep again, until I start having stupid thoughts again. Hopefully my date can distract me this week. Hell can't believe I went out with a starer, at least she's a cute one... bah!


I don't judge your ex morally for being an escort, but psychologically the depths you have to sink to and the rationalizations you have to make to convince yourself this is ok are staggering. 
It's so emotionally and mentally unhealthy. The fact that she charged outrageous amounts and ended up a sex addict to me means her whole sense of self is very warped. It's going to take years. 
I think you are doing the right thing.


----------



## deejov

If you changed, and became calmer, kinder... then I guess your changes aren't real either. 

Who the heck are YOU to judge her? 

The compassionate thing to do.. which you are not saying.. is to accept who she is TODAY. 
Just like you want others to accept you the same way. 

that has nothing to do with getting back together with her. It's talking to her face, acknowledging who she is, her good qualities, and allowing her to be herself, not what you want, need, desire in your ideal world. Just who she is, today. 

The whole world is going to change tomorrow. Including you.
She might not like the new you, but at least she wants to get to know you.


----------



## diwali123

Well she did literally torture his penis. I think he has the right to judge.


----------



## RandomDude

diwali123 said:


> I don't judge your ex morally for being an escort, but psychologically the depths you have to sink to and the rationalizations you have to make to convince yourself this is ok are staggering.
> It's so emotionally and mentally unhealthy. The fact that she charged outrageous amounts and ended up a sex addict to me means her whole sense of self is very warped. It's going to take years.
> I think you are doing the right thing.


Well, I'm actually the same level as her in that regard; I used to be a crim in my youth and have my own checked past. Hence someone with her past, well, I didn't flinch. I guess I hoped that if I could change, so could she. You are correct however, that it's the present that matters, and her sex addiction is/was still a very recent problem that I'm not so sure if she has changed.



> If you changed, and became calmer, kinder... then I guess your changes aren't real either.
> 
> Who the heck are YOU to judge her?
> 
> The compassionate thing to do.. which you are not saying.. is to accept who she is TODAY.
> Just like you want others to accept you the same way.
> 
> that has nothing to do with getting back together with her. It's talking to her face, acknowledging who she is, her good qualities, and allowing her to be herself, not what you want, need, desire in your ideal world. Just who she is, today.
> 
> The whole world is going to change tomorrow. Including you.
> She might not like the new you, but at least she wants to get to know you.


Well, I do compliment and encourage her to continue counselling... I just don't fully believe or trust it >.<


----------



## diwali123

RandomDude said:


> Well, I'm actually the same level as her in that regard; I used to be a crim in my youth and have my own checked past. Hence someone with her past, well, I didn't flinch. I guess I hoped that if I could change, so could she. You are correct however, that it's the present that matters, and her sex addiction is/was still a very recent problem that I'm not so sure if she has changed.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I do compliment and encourage her to continue counselling... I just don't fully believe or trust it >.<


I don't judge the criminal aspect of it (even thigh it's legal there). It's how do you get to a point in your life where you decide to start having sex for money? It's just really a low place to be. 
And that's your body, your intimate self being shared for money with who knows what people. 
I don't know what you did but there's not that same sense of bodily invasion with stealing or drug dealing.


----------



## RandomDude

Erm, I meant my own crim past. This is actually something that is somewhat preventing me from moving on. STBX had always been a 'safe haven' where I could be transparent with her and I guess in some ways I was hers unlike her previous partners before me. If I was to move on with anyone else I would be back to hiding.

Anyways, I was just illustrating why STBX's past was something that never really bothered me.


----------



## RandomDude

Update, sorry to bump this thread yet again, but damn it. After the near disaster yesterday where I felt like throwing up, and my plans to FZ my date today, and then that discussion on the "personality or body" thread...

Just one thing to add -> she had no problems prior to marriage, when I wasn't such an a$$hole either. Now it's either a bait or switch, or I must have done something really fked up to trigger her, which I did -> I withdrew my support for her due to our interreligious issues, fought with her constantly and ended up cheating on her with a ONS.

Quite frankly I don't know... what if instead of looking for changes in her, I look for changes in myself and see if we can still save this marriage before its too late? What if I take responsibility for my own failings in our marriage and see if things change? I may not feel love for her, at least not strongly, but hell

At least with STBX I don't have to worry about hiding my past or invoking my daughter's wrath on some poor new 'mummy', nor would I continue to feel guilt over my broken promise to my daughter by giving her a family again which she and her mum have been praying for...

Not to mention STBX has proven herself, and I can save myself alot of BS looking for a replacement. AND, I get my money and house back. *sigh* Bah nevermind, maybe I'll decide after I FZ my current date today.

EDIT: Alright, had a good think after I had a talk with my date, think I successfully got into the FZ, as for my STBX, meh fk it, damage has been done. Not worth it either. I'm fked


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I do not know what FZ means RD ...F*** your date? 

Some of my thoughts ...tried to read bits & pieces of your thread...



MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I'm sorry, but coming from a woman's POV, when I look at your PROs vs CONs list, I don't see a real big issue.
> 
> Her PROs actually outweigh the CONs unless I'm missing something really big here.
> 
> Everybody has CONs, I'm sure your list ain't pretty either. In marriage, as in any relationship, you have to decide if the CONs are something you can overlook - that is where the real test is. If you can, then you move on - you are never actually going to be able to change all someone's CONs on a list - some of those things are ingrained into who they are or their personality. If you expect to change everything about a person that you don't like, then you have set yourself up for failure from the beginning.
> 
> And I got a news flash for you here - do you even realize how many WOMEN EQUATE SEX WITH LOVE? Probably about 90% would be my guess. Its usually the only way we can tell that a guy likes or loves us is if he is having sex with us. Hell, I'm 53 years old and still equate sex with love. If you expect to change that - probably never gonna happen. What you could have done instead is when you realized that she equated sex with love is work within those confines to ensure that she knew you loved her in a way that she understood. My guess is you really didn't try. And withholding sex from her was the same as slapping her - same end result.
> 
> MEN - you guys just haven't figured it out yet and until you do - I guess we will all be on this merry-go-round for years to come.
> 
> I guess there's a reason that Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus is such a popular book. You have men giving you advice that know nothing about women and vice versa.
> 
> All I can say is good luck...hate to see a family broken up--but if you are not going to try to figure her out and help her from a "woman's point of view" and not from a male perspective, then you will never get anywhere.


 I agree with this POST ...and her next one following...



MarriedWifeInLove said:


> And maybe, while I'm sure she contributed to the demise of the relationship (as it ALWAYS TAKES TWO), you have your own issues. And until you take care of you, then you have no business trying to figure her out or fix her.
> 
> Only you can fix you and she can fix herself.
> But if you expect perfection...then you need to live alone.


I don't think you expect Perfection by any means, just some healthy boundaries... but she will mess up from time to time.. I would never tell you she wouldn't. I still get pi$$y with my husband from time to time over things I want (like more aggressiveness in the sack) but in weighing those Pros & Cons...The Pros has weights on the scale, it's almost a non issue...we can forgive each other our "weaknesses".....it's almost like breathing ....outside of some unruly moments here & there -then we have great make up sex anyway! 




> Update, sorry to bump this thread yet again, but damn it. After the near disaster yesterday where I felt like throwing up, and my plans to FZ my date today, and then that discussion on the "personality or body" thread...


 What caused you to almost *??*



> Just one thing to add -> *she had no problems prior to marriage, when I wasn't such an a$$hole either. Now it's either a bait or switch, or I must have done something really fked up to trigger her, which I did -> I withdrew my support for her due to our interreligious issues, fought with her constantly and ended up cheating on her with a ONS*.


Now you are getting the picture MarriedWifeinLove was getting at ....

This is very delicate...this WAS a blasting betrayal to her... isn't this WHEN she changed and got what you call pathetically NEEDY...weak...right AFTER YOU cheated on her......before that time, she felt you & her, despite your pasts, you found the one & only person who could UNDERSTAND, not judge ....and you & her together could ride off into the sunset and conquer the world.. she never dreamed you could hurt her like that...

it ripped a part of her heart out and she replaced it with trying to prove your love through sex somehow....can we all understand this....probably not because we are NOT HER...she destructed your boundaries ...both both are guilty for this downfall... Ya know...you both really F****ed it up.

So you're even... SO WHAT ... the thing that bothers me the most is you are still not convinced you LOVE her...but your not being able to get your mind of of her when dating this other women.. is very interesting..and shows SOMETHING IS THERE , something is brewing....I think it's great ...maybe you should keep dating just to see how that grows !



> Quite frankly I don't know... *what if instead of looking for changes in her, I look for changes in myself and see if we can still save this marriage before its too late? What if I take responsibility for my own failings in our marriage and see if things change?*


 Happy to see the lightbulb come on - on this account......and it's important you realize this on your own and mean it from the heart... instead of her badgering you to feel this way or DO this. It will have more of an effect (more hope) if it starts with you, and you see it with the magnified light it deserves. 




> I may not feel love for her, at least not strongly, but hell


 This part is concerning..but you are still guarded with some walls.. so I don't know...

Give it TIME...8 months of her counseling and her handing herself in the way you have described , sounds good to me, this is a season she NEEDED to go through for her self. She does have an amazing amount of faith in the 2 of you , I will give her that... I am too much of a realist myself - I wouldn't be able to do it ! 



> At least with STBX I don't have to worry about hiding my past or invoking my daughter's wrath on some poor new 'mummy', nor would I continue to feel guilt over my broken promise to my daughter by giving her a family again which she and her mum have been praying for...


 THis is part of the pros & cons too, of course, but if you are happier ALONE... as many feel on this thread... if you are CONTENT....enjoying your life more so....and you feel like this is jumping back into the fire...DO NOT go getting her hopes up. Just remain friends...parents who care for their child ...with the respect and trust growing slowly.... like that song  Hold on Loosely -by 38 Special..... until you have resolved this...only sweet TIME....will reveal if this is meant to be. and those feelings will grow, and become more consistent, you won't be tossed by the wind like you are now...

I strongly believe this separation was GOOD for you both, if anything, this HAD TO BE....if you was ever going to break the cycle of destruction...

I can clearly see that diwali123's posts resonate with you, and only a fraction of the time do you defend the ex... if you was truly ready to jump back in the Fire with her, that fraction would jump up considerably with you defending her ...and having TRUST that she is doing all she can to be a changed woman....I do believe people can change (look at your criminal past)... you know this... it's one thing about you & her -that you share... don't take that lightly. Yet still... none of us are perfect...we may slip now & then.... it's important for both partners to have a healthy self awareness to catch this... and make amends with our partner....so forgiveness can go forth during those weak moments..

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...transforming-our-marriages-relationships.html

.


----------



## RandomDude

Thanks SA as always your input is highly appreciated



SimplyAmorous said:


> I do not know what FZ means RD ...F*** your date?


FZ = Friendzone



> I don't think you expect Perfection by any means, just some healthy boundaries... but she will mess up from time to time.. I would never tell you she wouldn't. I still get pi$$y with my husband from time to time over things I want (like more aggressiveness in the sack) but in weighing those Pros & Cons...The Pros has weights on the scale, it's almost a non issue...we can forgive each for our weaknesses..it's like breathing almost -outside of some unruly moments.


Ironically, even though our time apart has allowed me to see how screwed up our marriage had been... it has also come to make me see the good things that I've failed to appreciate. Hitting the dating scene just makes me go meh...



> What caused you to almost


My date =/



> Now you are getting the picture MarriedWifeinLove was getting at ....
> 
> This is very delicate...this WAS a blasting betrayal to her... isn't this WHEN she changed and got what you call pathetically NEEDY...weak...right AFTER YOU cheated on her......before that time, she felt you & her, despite your pasts, you found the one & only person who could UNDERSTAND, not judge ....and you & her together could ride off into the sunset and conquer the world.. she never dreamed you could hurt her like that...
> 
> it ripped a part of her heart out and she replaced it with throwing trying to prove your love through sex somehow....can we all understand this....probably not because we are NOT HER...she destructed your boundaries ...both both are guilty for this downfall... Ya know...you both really F****ed it up.


Well it was the beginning of the end and she didn't want anything to do with me for a while. She shot me down repeatedly so I did give her space, and approached her slow and steady, kinda like what she tried recently before I shot her down again. I persisted in earning her forgiveness even if it meant we would never get back together. In doing we did reconcile eventually after a year. 

From friends again though, it wasn't really long before we became friends with benefits during this time, and as emotions sunk in again... baby bells, then OMFG what now? It was a mess. 
Everything was a blur, and to be honest I don't think our relationship had ever been stable since that. Hell I don't even think the panic and madness even ended until we seperated this year.

Madness, we drove each other insane.



> So you're even... SO WHAT ... the thing that bothers me the most is you are still not convinced you LOVE her...but your not being able to get your mind of of her when dating this other women.. is very interesting..and shows SOMETHING IS THERE , something is brewing....I think it's great ...maybe you should keep dating just to see how that grows !


Well, I don't know what love is anymore and I can't really claim it probably bc of guilt.



> Happy to see the lightbulb come on - on this account......and it's important you realize this on your own and mean it from the heart... instead of her badgering you to feel this way or DO this. It will have more of an effect (more hope) if it starts with you, and you see it with the magnified light it deserves.


The sad thing is, she came forward with her white flag focused entirely on her flaws and didn't bring any of mine into the table. I haven't returned her favor. I've painted myself as too much a victim when I guess I wasn't one.



> This part is concerning..but you are still guarded with some walls.. so I don't know...


I just don't know what love is anymore.



> Give it TIME...8 months of her counseling and her handing herself in the way you have described , sounds good to me, this is a season she NEEDED to go through for her self. She does have an amazing amount of faith in the 2 of you , I will give her that... I am too much of a realist myself - I wouldn't be able to do it !


Aye as am I, that's the thing about her - faith. We're opposites in this, me being the realist. I've never been one to wait for miracles unlike her.



> THis is part of the pros & cons too, of course, but if you are happier ALONE... as many feel on this thread... if you are CONTENT....enjoying your life more so....and you feel like this is jumping back into the fire...DO NOT go getting her hopes up. Just remain friends...parents who care for their child ...with the respect and trust growing slowly.... like that song  Hold on Loosely -by 38 Special..... until you have resolved this...only sweet TIME....will reveal if this is meant to be. and those feelings will grow, and become more consistent, you won't be tossed by the wind like you are now...


I don't think we can ever be just friends, like hell we've tried quite a few times. Now we just have too much of a history.



> I strongly believe this separation was GOOD for you both, if anything, this HAD TO BE....if you was ever going to break the cycle of destruction...
> 
> I can clearly see that diwali123's posts resonate with you, and only a fraction of the time do you defend the ex... if you was truly ready to jump back in the Fire with her, that fraction would jump up considerably with you defending her ...and having TRUST that she is doing all she can to be a changed woman....I do believe people can change (look at your criminal past)... you know this... it's one thing about you & her -that you share... don't take that lightly. Yet still... none of us are perfect...we may slip now & then.... it's important for both partners to have a healthy self awareness to catch this... and make amends with our partner....so forgiveness can go forth during those weak moments..
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...transforming-our-marriages-relationships.html


Well, I'm a realist, diwali speaks the truth too, and quite frankly if I walk into this as I am now I bet we will fail again - but it won't be because of just her - which is something I'm realising. I've never really handled her right.

I'm going to see her tomorrow to pick up my daughter, hell maybe it's already too late since it's been a while now since I shot her down and maybe she's already found someone else. But if she has then I would wish the best for her, and with a closed door I wouldn't feel like I'm in such a crossroad.

How should I approach this? I don't even know what we can do at this point despite all this. We're getting divorced, I broke her heart, I kissed another girl which has probably ruined any chance of reconciliation anyway, even if it made me wanna throw up.


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## turnera

What do you miss about stbx? 

What do you hate about her? What has she done to you?


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## RandomDude

turnera said:


> What do you miss about stbx?


Hmmm... right now? All the good times we've shared, we did have alot. We talked about anything and everything, shared and confided in each other, she was always transparent, I wasn't so much - she had to dig it out of me. She was clever, witty, as well as stupid sometimes which I found amusing. Couldn't cook for sh-t but did it anyway, made a family home that I never had and raised my daughter well.

When she wasn't so demanding, sex was the best I've ever had. We matched well on the dance floor as well as the bedroom, she never worked for a cent in our marriage but as a traditional wife and mother, I can't fault her for her contributions in that field. And quite frankly... I'm trying not to hold her joblessness against her anymore, I guess I never really appreciated her consistence. Perhaps losing my house and cash to her and then realising that she did in fact deserve it - made me slowly realise that.

Another reason why seperation was sorely needed I guess.



> What do you hate about her?


Right now... nothing, but we've been very civil and we've been living apart so meh =/

I don't know if she has changed or not but her behaviour recently just seems like a whole new vibe compared to the madness in the past. But it could all be an act, who knows, but my gut believes her somewhat. Well, it believes that she believes it at least.



> What has she done to you?


Well hmmm... how to approach this question... what has the aftermath been like...

- Celibate for 8 months and it looks like its forever
- Hardened heart
- Nearly vomited after kissing someone else
- Can't move on with someone else
- Can't imagine myself fking someone else
- Guilty over leaving behind a broken home for my daughter
- Feel lost, don't know where I'm headed for the future
- No real desire to work, shareholders want me to expand while I say "Fk that! Enjoy your ROI and stop telling me how to run my business", it's stable and that's the way I like it. I don't want any more money, I just want stability.

On the plus side

- I'm much richer now post-marriage than pre-marriage despite our impending divorce

Meh


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## SimplyAmorous

> FZ = Friendzone


  it's always something simple! 



> RandomDude said: Ironically, even though our time apart has allowed me to see how screwed up our marriage had been... *it has also come to make me see the good things that I've failed to appreciate. Hitting the dating scene just makes me go meh*...


 I LIKE it !



> From friends again though, it wasn't really long before we became friends with benefits during this time, and as emotions sunk in again... baby bells, then OMFG what now? It was a mess.
> Everything was a blur, and to be honest I don't think our relationship had ever been stable since that. Hell I don't even think the panic and madness even ended until we seperated this year.
> 
> Madness, we drove each other insane.


 Reading your story over the past few yrs, I always think of something similar to Pink & her on & off again Husband Cory Hart..2 hotheads who can't live without each other, can't be friends cause they will BE in bed together....... the fire is too ..... they do love each other...but they also drive each other insane... break up, divorce, separate, had a kid "Willow"... not sure where they are right now.... but Oh was it STORMY... she got some funny songs out of that mess...










I bet you can relate to feeling like the man in her video... P!nk - Please Don't Leave Me - YouTube



> *The sad thing is, she came forward with her white flag focused entirely on her flaws and didn't bring any of mine into the table. I haven't returned her favor. I've painted myself as too much a victim when I guess I wasn't one*.


 Lovin' the self awareness in this Random Dude... a little humility... better run for your cave now.... No seriously...if you come forth *with yours*.... Hmmm... I wonder what could BE ! Even if you don't get back together, I persuade you to go to this place, it may be more healing than you could imagine, even if you remain alone...the TALK will be very good for both of you. 

... this is getting into vulnerable territory! 



> Aye as am I, that's the thing about her - faith. We're opposites in this, me being the realist. I've never been one to wait for miracles unlike her.


 But maybe , just maybe YOU NEED someone like this... YOu don't want her to care deeply ? 

Oh scratch that, I used the word "NEED"...I know how "blasphemous" you feel about that notion.

Wanted to answer a little more, but gotta run... taking my daughter to the Doctor, step throat maybe.


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## turnera

So basically you're lonely and depressed and you miss the companionship and you have magnified the good times because of it.


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## RandomDude

SimplyAmorous said:


> Reading your story over the past few yrs, I always think of something similar to Pink & her on & off again Husband Cory Hart..2 hotheads who can't live without each other, can't be friends cause they will BE in bed together....... the fire is too ..... they do love each other...but they also drive each other insane... break up, divorce, separate, had a kid "Willow"... not sure where they are right now.... but Oh was it STORMY... she got some funny songs out of that mess...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet you can relate to feeling like the man in her video... P!nk - Please Don't Leave Me - YouTube


Heh, I'm not the type of person that says "please" in things like this  . But meh, I've grown out of all that now, love/hate and all that; I'd rather peace. Not sure if I can accomplish it though. 

BTW: Pink / Hart are still married, figures...



> Lovin' the self awareness in this Random Dude... a little humility... better run for your cave now.... No seriously...if you come forth *with yours*.... Hmmm... I wonder what could BE ! Even if you don't get back together, I persuade you to go to this place, it may be more healing than you could imagine, even if you remain alone...the TALK will be very good for both of you.
> 
> ... this is getting into vulnerable territory!


For closure? Well, I have admitted my flaws but it's always been a W.I.P. (work in progress), not so sure if she would even take it seriously anymore. I'm not even so sure if we can even get back together really, I've already shot her down after all and she has left me alone since then.

I see her every weekend and despite shooting her down recently she hasn't gone vengeance on me surprisingly. But even if I come up to her right now and say something like "you know, I've been thinking..." she'll probably flair up at me for confusing her... but I dunno.



> But maybe , just maybe YOU NEED someone like this... YOu don't want her to care deeply ?
> 
> Oh scratch that, I used the word "NEED"...I know how "blasphemous" you feel about that notion.
> 
> Wanted to answer a little more, but gotta run... taking my daughter to the Doctor, step throat maybe.


Well, I admit that there have been times where she really complimented my lack of faith with hers, especially when I was struggling with new responsibilities due to the rapid promotions at my workplace years ago. I was unqualified, inexperience, but I couldn't pass up such an opportunity. It was a very, very steep learning curve from attendant to a supervisory and later management role.



turnera said:


> So basically you're lonely and depressed and you miss the companionship and you have magnified the good times because of it.


The good times needed to be appreciated, I can't keep victimising myself forever, one big flaw of mine has always been my lack of appreciation. As for companionship, loneliness, depression, if it was just that simple I would have fked my date by now instead of letting her know how things were and ending up being FZed, at least I think I've been FZed. Meh, either way think my date got the message.

I'm not saying getting back together is even the best idea either, just weighing my options.


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## RandomDude

Ok guys, update. I spent the day with my STBX and daughter, needed to catch up anyway, see how she was. She's cool with everything, I expressed how I felt about my own fk ups, complimented her contributions, told her that I never really appreciated them. It was more closure I guess, though she said she's over it and doesn't want me to kick myself over it.

She seems fine, has a smile on her face again. She did ask me why I decided to spend the day with them instead of what I usually did; just take my daughter and go, asked me if I just needed to confess or something. I admited it and also said that I was worried about her but she insisted that she's fine, that I shouldn't think so much on the past.

She seems alot more detached but I don't blame her. Guess I've really pushed her away for the last time. Oh well, she seems happier and more stable without me anyway.


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## deejov

Happier because she's finding her own way to be happy without needing something from you? I'm surprised you dont' find that attractive.

Best of luck, RD, I still don't think you are finished with each other, but it may not be the way you envisioned it.
Peace


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## RandomDude

I was testing the waters today, she's no longer interested. No love, no hate, indifference. If anything I've broken her heart for the last time when I shot her down so we're done. And I'm not the type of person that does the whole "come back to me" BS act, I'm too proud for that, and nor do I think that's even respectable behaviour.

Right now she's focused on moving on and so should I. If ONLY I FKING CAN. Quite frankly I'm going nuts.


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## nevergveup

Is it possible that you have built up all the good qualities
of your ex?
We do the exact same thing of a person who we have known
that has died.

We only remember positive things about them and seem to forget
that there human and do make many mistakes.We ignore the negative.

I bet your time away from your ex your doing exactly this.
You need remember clearly why you both are divorcing.

Your not giving any females a chance to really get to know
you.Your worth it.


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## RandomDude

Well, I did reflect on pros / cons, so I haven't forgotten. If she wasn't so repentant I wouldn't even had considered reconciliation. I dunno really, either way things are stable now. The most stable it's ever been between us.

Meh, guess its done.

As for other females, I don't see how I wasn't giving them a chance. In the end perhaps I'm just way too damaged for anything. Other blokes when they move on, hook up easily with new dates... but me? Pffft I can't even kiss a woman without throwing up.


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## sinnister

RandomDude said:


> I was testing the waters today, she's no longer interested. No love, no hate, indifference. If anything I've broken her heart for the last time when I shot her down so we're done. And I'm not the type of person that does the whole "come back to me" BS act, I'm too proud for that, and nor do I think that's even respectable behaviour.
> 
> Right now she's focused on moving on and so should I. If ONLY I FKING CAN. Quite frankly I'm going nuts.


You need to be sure everything with you is fixed before you can move on. I'm not convinced that you're ready.


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## turnera

RandomDude said:


> I can't even kiss a woman without throwing up.


What's the 'rule?' One month for every year you've been with your ex, before you're mentally ready to date again, I think.


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## RandomDude

Well it's 7-8 years and it's been 8 coming to 9 months, meh


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## RandomDude

God gave men a penis and a brain, but only enough blood to run one at a time
- Robin Williams

I want sex, but I can't seem to fk anyone. I'm going nuts with celibacy, I'm tempted right now to just put it in her.


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