# I am a horrible person



## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

I have been feeling trapped in my relationship for some time. I don't know why. My husband takes good care of me and my family. We have certain issues that have come up again and again, but the biggest one is sex. He has hurt my feelings many times with the distinct purpose of making me feel bad. We have been married eleven years and have two children, 12 and 5. I don't want to hurt him or my children, but I really don't want to be married anymore. Something has changed within me...I feel stronger and suddenly I have the desire to be independent. It's probably just a fantasy, but I have feeling this way for months, and it's not going away. I feel terrible and I am so scared at the thought of telling my husband. He often senses when there's a problem, but we manage to move on. Can anyone offer me advice? I don't want to make any decisions I will later regret.


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## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

You can always have independence within the marraige. What kind of independence are you looking to have?


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes, I sense that you are not looking for true indepenance but rather a way to get those butterflies back again. Start dating again, go dance or to the movies. Have the grandparents take the kids one day a week so the two of you can rekindle the passion again.

If nothing else you would have tried to stengthen your relationship and know that you tried.

draconis


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

maybe this new strong independence is you breaking away from the hurt he's caused you? do you feel that if you stay you will be vunerable to him again?


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

I feel like we have tried so many times to fix our problems, but the same problems come up again and again. I just don't think I want to put the effort into it anymore. We have had times that we were happy, but I just don't feel like I love him anymore. You all brought up good points. He has hurt me and we have talked about it. He's not always like this, only when he gets mad at me. But, I am so tired of it. That "butterflies" feeling has been gone a long time. Also, I guess there's a part of me that feels like we only got married out of obligation because I was pregnant. We made it through a lot in our early years. As far as independence goes, I guess I just want to see if I can make it on my own. I want the freedom to date and have fun, something I missed out on when I was younger. However, it seems a terrible thing though to throw away eleven years of marriage. I am so torn.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

the same problems come up in most marriages.
on a never ending circle. 
and most of which we also say what you say.
"im fed up, dont want to put the effort in."
if you dont love him and like you say banging your head against the wall. then do what you feel that you have to do.
if you do love him, leaving him for other dates, wil remind you you did actually make an unregrettable mistake.
relationships have changed amongst ppl over the yrs. new generations. im not saying all. but promiscuity seems to be the norm.
i think if you want out, you need to spend your time on your own, take some time out.
you can still go out within a relationship. the person stopping you is you.
if you made it through a lot of yrs, then you can keep going. 
your not horrible, far from it.
you have just disconected.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

guiltygirl -
You have said the biggest problem is sex, but you do not elaborate further. Is there too much, too little, or the wrong kind?


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

For my husband, there's too little sex. I guess I do have some intimacy issues, and lately I have not been attracted to him at all. It seems as if sex is the only thing he wants from me. I know that guys need this, but our sex drives just don't match up.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks for the advice Justean. Can you clarify though? Are you saying that I should separate from him if I think that's best or that I should see other people even while I'm still with him? It also sounded like you thought that I should stick it out since we've made it this far. Sorry for the confusion, but I really liked what you had to say. Thanks.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

going to be honest, i dont think infidelity is a good idea within the marriage. 
it can only make situations worse, believe me.
no probs on clarifying.
if your with him, then your with him.
if your not together, then you are a free agent. do what you want then and only then. 
i have a high sex drive, hubby not. so opposite to you. 
try and gain a happy medium, change your attitude. 
i just think this is another of those marriage lulls, we all go through.
you both have to start at the communication process again.
most of us have been where you are, and no doubt we wil go through it again a couple of months down the road, but deal with that issues then.
my children are 11 and 8. at one point i stopped going out. you dont stop on purpose, you just settle into homelife. you forget to go out.
but not at n e point did i feel obliged to stay in . i recently had a spate of going out ever weekend. but you go back again into a calmer i like home situation. i stayed in for a bit then, resting from partying and then opportunites come about from work etc. family gatherings.
now im fine again.
then the cycle wil commence again when it ready to rear it head again, " i need to go out".
like i said i think you stop yourself.
listen to other ppls lives, your wont sound that bad, i bet you.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

guiltygirl-

Two things - First, it might not be that you have a low sex drive, it's just that you do not desire your husband. That could change, but right now that's how it is.

Second. Your sex drive might be slightly repressed, and this is borne out by choosing a user name like *guiltygirl*.

One day, you or your husband, or maybe someone else will find your HOT button. When that day dawns, you will be amazed that you had a self image as a low sex drive person.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

This is a really great site. I love that everyone is so helpful and supportive. Justean, you are right about so many things. I am afraid I might regret leaving him, but right now the desire is so strong, I feel like I might explode. I really feel like I just need some time alone, but I'm not sure how to make that happen. I know it would cause a great deal of upheaval in our lives. MarkTwain (love the pen name, by the way), I liked your comment as well. I'm not sure if I agree with you, but it's nice to know there's a possibility that I'm not a freak.


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## Lsot1 (Aug 8, 2008)

Guiltygirl -

I have done to my wife, what your hubby is doing to you. I have ignored the situation for so long that she has now got to the point that she can't carry on. 

It's a horrible situation and there is no easy answer. My wife felt that there was no other way than to leave and we are now separating. I now realise what I have done and hope that over time I can change things. 

We both still love each other, but the 'spark' had gone.

You really need to decide what YOU want and even if it's the hardest thing you have ever done, it must be for YOU.

There is no point in dragging your self esteem down any further just because it's easier to do that.

I am sure you are a great person but at the moment you can't see that and hubby can't see just how much you are hurting inside. Maybe if you tell him that you are going to leave, but leave a little bit of yourself ready to stay if you want to.

I know that my words may not help, but being on the other side of the coin, I know that the only way I was able to see the problems I had been causing was by my wife leaving.

Will we get back together?, well if it's meant to be, then yes. Who knows?

Hang in there, search your soul, find what YOU want and stick with it no matter what. You will both come out of it stronger that way.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

my hubby and i have split up over the years for various reasons. life is stressful. generally not getting with eachother (lull period). ok some times we ride the waves and other times we did not cope with what we were going though at the time.
we have and still have time out. we all need a breather.
and your at that breather stage.

i actually think your very normal.

take the kids away for a week on your own. or go away for a week with a friend. well thats what i do.
i went to spain four years ago with my sis in law at the time.
i just had to get away from the kids and hubby.
we had a ball. when i come back i had missed my family.i was fine again. four yrs later ( now ) ive got that itch again.
im looking around for an offer and wil prob go wi my mum in oct. 
you need to get away from the kids and hubby and time for you its fab.
also do you have a hobby. if you dont have one,get one.
you need an interest. mine is my horse. its my freedom and my sanity from kids and hubby.
as fo hubby and i , well he usually stays at his mums when we say enough is enough, or i spend overtime with my mother. 

but you can come back refreshed and u can miss eachother again.
we also know its not the end of our marriage.
were one of them, can live with eachother, cant live without eachother.
but i admit when we have had time apart and when we see eachother again. were electric. 
every marriage has its own mechanics. 
but marriage and relationships are a day to day clock work. 
when the clock strikes 12, it doesnt end. 
thats why change is important to evolve and move forward.
its when you dont change and evolve, that the relationship becomes stale and you get the rise in divorce rates.
because its easier to give up these days.
why give up on a marriage, just because you need some space.
Just have some space and keep your marriage - it might come out better .


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Brill arrangment justean!

guiltygirl- I made a huge discovery which is going to be further fleshed out in a book I am writing. Basically, some women find monogamy hard going. So after a time they go of sex with the hubby. Society and sex therapists alike label such women with having low sex drives. but guess what? They get there hormones checked and often they are at totally normal levels.

My theory is that these women are not off sex, they are off sex with their husbands. If you add to this the fact that women tend to me naturally more sexually repressed than men, then you get the ugly boredom that passes for many marriages these days.

The reason women are more repressed than men is because of two things. Religion, and religion. Basically a woman who likes sex is labelled a xxx, so if a woman wants to be a "good girl" she naturally gravitates to asexuality. It's so sad. I would like to see all women reach their full sexual potential, which, truth be known is higher than any man could reach.

Hence my mention of your username


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Justean, you make many good points. I have thought about doing exactly what you said, going away for a few days, but I'm afraid my husband already senses my distance and will see this as an excuse to spend less time with him. This would definitely make him upset. He has already asked me why I don't want to spend any time with him. The only way I will know if I will miss him is if I have some time away from him. He's going out of town for a week pretty soon, but I will be busy with work and the kids. I don't think this will give me the answer. There was a time that he went out of town for work and while he was gone, I loved the freedom and really didn't want him to come back. I guess I feel like I'm always making choices about what he might think or worrying about making him mad. If I tell him I want to leave, then I think I will have reached the point of no return with him. He would be too hurt to take me back. 

LSOT1, I also liked what you had to say. I know it must be painful for you with what you're going through right now. I do feel horrible about myself, and I don't really want to feel that way anymore. I feel that I should at least tell my husband my feelings and see what happens. But, I'm not sure where I would go. My kids start school in two weeks, we have all of this home improvement stuff going on right now, and I go back to work in a week (I'm a teacher). Things are about to get a lot more stressful. Is this really a good time to add to the stress. But, I liked that you said that I need to decide what I want to do and that I'm not a bad person.

Mark Twain, you also made many interesting points. You hit the nail on the head. I was raised Catholic, so sex was kind of off limits for me when I was younger. Though I ended up pregnant by my now husband before I was married, I have always held back a little when it comes to sex. I try having fun in the bedroom because it pleases my husband, and sometimes I do pretty well with it. But, he expects to play games and do fantasies once a week. I'm not sure if I can stomach that, especially not with the way I feel towards him right now. How can a woman change this and reach her "sexual potential", as you said. I would be interested in hearing more about your book.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

then dont rush things for the moment.
but try this, ok i dont really know how you feel about this, but here goes.
before he goes away. be the best wife , be the best mother you have ever been.
be good in bed, just take the initiative. dont row. take everything as it comes. really try and love him. stop your distance just reverse it.
then when he goes away, kiss him like it could be the last kiss you ever have with him.

when he goes away, you have time for yourself. in that time go out and have fun . get a sitter ready now. have a night on your own away from the kids. open a bottle of wine and get a fantastic comedy that wil make you laugh and cry. 
really be on your own.
plan your time now, for when he is away.
atleast try and do domething, that you think you miss out on - but dont do the infidelity.
i bet you wil realise by the end of it, what you really want.


oh and i be in spain hopefully end of oct, if you fancy a girly weekend


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

On a teacher's salary, I don't think I could make it, but it sounds like fun. Thanks for the invite. I am an emotional wreck right now...it's like it finally hit me all of a sudden what I'm facing. I like your idea, it should be no problem to get a sitter, though I don't know what I'll do. I'll come up with something. I really do need some time alone. My husband definitely knows something is up, however, and I'm having difficulty hiding it anymore. I think I'm worse off than before. Thanks again for your help!


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

then i just think your keeping to much to yourself and the build up really is getin to much to cope with.
my new suggestion, then you need to get him on your own , no kids for the night and talk.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

guiltygirl-

First of all, to get anywhere you have to make up your mind about where you want to go.

If you want to improve your marriage, then decide on that NOW. If you are wishy washy about it, it ain't going to happen.

Again with sexuality, if religion has stolen your sexuality, just deicide if you want to reclaim it. You don't need to seek anyone's permission, except your own. It's not about techniques, they may help, so does knowledge of male and female anatomy. But nothing can replace the felling of enthusiasm and exploration, which is what is needed to take you deep into uncharted territory.

So the best person to explore that new territory with is your husband. He sounds quite playful in that regard, so you could be having a great time. And guess what? it's a great stress buster. This is one mistake that women make for some reason that is probably hard wired into them: If they feel worn out by life and work, they ration sex, in order to preserve energy. However, as long as you don't produce babies every five minutes, sex actually recharges the batteries.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

guiltygirl-


What ever you decide remember you will always have a support group here for you. Take your time if need be so that you are sure of your choice.

Sex inside of a marriage is sancioned by every religion. so if that is a hang up keep that in mind.

draconis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

draconis said:


> Sex inside of a marriage is sancioned by every religion.
> draconis


There were a few religions that were anti sex... but they died out quite quickly


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

MarkTwain said:


> There were a few religions that were anti sex... but they died out quite quickly


I wonder why...:rofl:

draconis


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

*Re: I am a horrible person, but I do like sex*

I am still struggling. I want to you both to know that I enjoy sex and we have had a lot of fun in the bedroom in the past...games, toys, etc. I've been pretty open. I can live with having sex once a week, that's all I need. He tends to get mad at me if he is not getting sex more than that and if we don't have so-called "fantasies". I am going to hold off to say anything for now, but I feel pretty strongly about my decision. Thank you guys for being so supportive. Draconis, you're right that I need to take my time and be sure. Unfortunately, there's a huge part of me that is fantacizing about being outside this marriage. I will try to be strong and do the right thing because I really am a good person overall. I am tempted though, especially with my husband being out of town next week. I wrote down everything I wanted to tell my husband, inlcuding a separation request, but I have been to scared to say anything. I guess I'll wait and see. But I do not want to be unhappy the rest of my life, so I will say something eventually. Phew...that was long. Thanks again.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

You are stronger then you think, you deserve to be happy, but do so honoring your vows if you can't then end the relationship before moving on. You will respect yourself more that way.

draconis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

*Re: I am a horrible person, but I do like sex*



guiltygirl said:


> I am going to hold off to say anything for now, but I feel pretty strongly about my decision.


Sorry if I am slow on the uptake, but can you tell us exactly what that decision is, and why you made it - you might be surprised at what happens if you wrote that down here.

I just want to add - I don't know why - but I want to: I just love your name "guiltygirl" and I love your thread title "I am a horrible person". It conveys to me the impression that you are an interesting person - one who would not be boring to get to know.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

*Re: I am a horrible person, but I do like sex*

Draconis, thanks for the encouragement. I don't want to go against my vows, that really isn't me. I haven't told the whole story here because it's so involved and it happened years ago, but hey, you guys might find it interesting, so here goes. (run-on sentence, sorry). Here's how our story began. My husband and I met when I was about 20...I was shy and hadn't had a single relatiosnhip with a guy, and was starting to feel pretty undesirable. I was turning to alcohol to help me loosen up so that I could talk to people easier. The night I met my husband, we were parked on a drag in a fairly small town and he and his friend stopped. They bought us some beer and I ended up a little tipsy. We flirted quite easily and we ended up making out. TMI? Anyway, we went on a couple of more dates, then he had to leave for training as he was in the army at the time. He called me once while he was training and was scheduled to call me again about a week later. He didn't. My heart was broken. I didn't think there was anyone else in this world for me. I got a friend of mine to help me track him down, as I didn't know his number. Well she found his work number and I talked to him and found out he had been separated from his wife when we met and they were trying to work things out. But, there was this huge sexual tension...we wanted to see each other, and we did on several occasions. At this point, we didn't quite get to the point that he committed adultery...technically speaking. He couldn't seem to make up his mind, but when it came time for me to leave to go to a university in a big city, he suddenly decided he would tell his wife he was leaving her for me. However, this was kind of complicated because he was in the military and could get in a lot of trouble, so they continued living together, but I talked to her, and she knew what was going on between my husband and I (or is that her husband and me?). Anyway, about 2 months later, young and stupid, I ended up pregnant. Unsure about keeping the pregnancy, but prayer would not allow me to get an abortion. I found out in January that my husband's wife at the time was also pregnant. Ouch!!!! He has two children by two different women that were born 4 days apart. I eventually forgave him, though right now I'm not sure why. I guess I didn't like the alternative, which was being alone with a baby. So we've made it through some pretty crappy stuff. Over the years, trust hasn't been an issue, really. We've had our ups and downs, and as I said before, we went to counseling a couple of years ago. The reason for counseling then was that I went out one night and got drunk of course and kissed another guy. That was pretty much it. The reason then was that I felt happy when he wasn't around and I wanted to be free to go out with someone else. I felt really bad about this, especially since I didn't even like the guy. Alcohol has gotten me into bad situations too many times in my life, but I won't list them all here. That would be better suited for another forum. Anyway, the issue right now is that I just don't feel that I love him anymore. It is making him very angry because he keeps trying to be close to me and I am pulling away. I dread having the conversation with him about what I wrote, because then I won't be able to turn back. What if I'm alone forever? We are going to a family reunion this weekend and he is staying home to work on home improvement stuff. Next week, he'll be out of town for work. This will give me some time without him, which I am looking forward to. I hate keeping this inside and I hate avoiding him all the time. He sighs at night when I'm lying next to him in bed, and my heart is pounding because I'm waiting for him to bring up these issues. So there's another interesting, or not so interesting, part of our drama. This has been very long, so MT, if you would like for me to write down what I wrote to my husband here, it will have to be in a separate reply. I actually don't mind sharing it, because I'm feeling ambivalent about how he'll react or if it's the right thing. Thanks for the compliment about my name and thread title, but it took zero creativity on my part coming up with them. I do feel guilty and horrible. If you really knew me, I'm not sure you would find me so interesting. I'm pretty sure my husband has a difficult time living with me. I wasn't going to say this, but the doctors think I might be bipolar. If you know anything about this disorder, you know people can be kind of crazy. That's how I see myself. However, sometimes I like that I'm crazy, it makes me unique. Part of the problem for me is that I feel that I can't be that crazy, unique person I am with my husband. Of course, it's not all fun and games...when I've been depressed at times, I have had suicidal thoughts. I'm on medication though, and the last few months I have grown a lot in strength and confidence...probably part of what has brought my doubts about this marriage to the surface again. I think I am strong enough to make it on my own...and I feel that being on my own would make me happy. See, you were right...I am very interesting. Still think you want to get to know me? Sorry so long.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

*Re: I am a horrible person, but I do like sex*



guiltygirl said:


> However, sometimes I like that I'm crazy, it makes me unique.


I like that you're crazy 

Please write more and share the letter. The only thing I would beg of you is to make it easer on our eyes, and break up your thoughts into paragraphs!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Okay I am sure that you have thought of the pros and cons of seperating. I think the first thing you need to do is look at the marriage and figure out if you can fix your issues within the marriage. If you can't then maybe it is time for a trial seperation to see if being on your own is what you really want.

draconis


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Let me address draconis first. You always give great advice. I have analyzed every aspect of my situation. I'm not sure if our issue can be fixed, we have tried, and the problem is that I think maybe we are just too different in our views of what a marriage should be. I think a trial separation is best for now, but I need to talk this through with him. It's killing me inside.

Sorry MT about the lack of paragraphs. I'm an English teacher, I ought to know better. When the thoughts start flowing, I just keep on typing. I'm glad somebody likes that I'm crazy...Thanks!

Okay here's the letter. I'll try to break it down. Any input would be appreciated.

What is the problem? I'm not happy. Years of not making you happy has left me feeling inadequate. My self-esteem has never been that great, but I'm getting stronger and more confident. I have come to realize that I'm okay. I also realize that everything that's wrong with our relationshihp is not my fault. I don't want to feel bad about myself because I don't do everything you want me to. For years, we have had this same fight and nothing ever changes permanently. Why? Because I am me and you are you. You will never be happy with me.

There are plenty of things that we like about each other...otherwise we would have never gotten together. But, are we happy?

I feel that you often criticize me and I don't like it. You have said many hurtful things to me over the years. We may move on, but I never forget. It's gotten to the point that I am fed up with our situation. I can't do this for the rest of my life. We both deserve better. 

I have never felt like you accept me for who I am. I know neither of us are perfect, but I also know that I have a lot of personal issues that have put a strain on our relationship. I'm sorry for that, but again, I am who I am. I feel like I need to be by myself. (I'll leave a small part out)

Over the past few months, I have made an effort to work on our relationship. From your perspective, it probably doesn't seem that way. The problem is that I no longer have the motivation, desire, or energy to put into us. I just don't feel the love is there anymore. We are good partners, but maybe not so good as husband and wife. 

I have not been able to shake this feeling over the past few months that we are over. Believe me, I have tried. I don't want to tear up our family and everything we've built over the years. I honestly don't think we each give the other what they need. I don't necessarily want a divorce, but I think a little time apart would be good for both of us. Maybe we'll realize how much we really do love each other.

I don't know what will happen, but I do know I can't keep going with the way things are. I need to figure out who I am and what makes me happy. As selfish as this sounds, it's an important part of this process of transformation I am undergoing. (I'll leave the next part out)

The letter goes on for another page...brief synopsis. I thank him for everything he has done for me over the years. I cherish our memories...blah, blah, blah.

(continued...)
For some time, we haven't really had a relationship. You always ask me why I don't want you. I can't answer that. I just know that I don't have the feelings for you that I once did. I feel like we've reached the point where something has to change. I'm just not sure if it's possible or likely based on our past. 

Then, I go on to apologize for hurting him, etc.

That's pretty much the gist of it. Do you think it's too harsh? I will say that when I wrote this I really didn't even have to think about it. It just flowed from my heart onto the paper. I think I am going to try and put this off until he gets back from his business trip. But if he brings it up sooner, I guess I'll have to face it. Thanks again for your input.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

i like what you wrote, its personal to you in your situation.
its not harsh, but even if it was, you have feelings, why should you be the one that always holds them back.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Not to harsh and maybe over analytical or apologising to much. But I understand that is how you feel. It is good that you can be that honest and he can't misunderstand that.

P3 "I feel that you often criticize me and I don't like it" ; Isn't bad but might work better inside the paragraph other then a lead off. I only say that because he might get defensive at reading that first and mingle the rest. But you husband should know you better then that and you (I assume) Know how to best communicate with him.

P7 "I don't know what will happen, but I do know I can't keep going with the way things are. I need to figure out who I am and what makes me happy." ; I really like this it speaks volumes to me.

All in all a great letter.

PS Sorry about the spelling (as an English teacher you must be flipping reading some of my posts over the last two days.)

draconis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

guiltygirl-

Wait a moment...

OK, that letter is useless from a male point of view. It does not say WHY you are unhappy. Why not rack you considerable brains, and articulate, what your ideal marriage would be, and where you think your present marriage falls short.

Sweetheart, you are only going to hit the same issues with the next man. I'm not saying you should stay with him at all costs, but you may as well deal with it now before you get any older.
​
My red light comes on when people avoid vocalising WHAT is making them unhappy. I am beginning to suspect you had a less than ideal home background, as a child.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Draconis and Justean, thanks for the kind words and advice. Don't worry about the spelling D, we can't all spell well. MT, I was taken aback by what you wrote. I want to clarify that I had a pretty good home life...5 brothers and sisters and two loving parents who are celebrating their 50th anniversary this year. I just don't think my husband and I have that "thing" that relationships should have. My biggest problem is that we keep fighting about the sex thing and nothing is ever resolved. This damages my self-esteem, which has only recently begun to improve. As I get stronger and more confident, I don't feel I should have to put up with his criticizing and hurtful comments. You may be right, I may have the same problems in future relationships, which is why I may never have a successful relationship. But, I'll never know if I don't try. I don't even want to be in a relationship right now anyway. I don't think I would ever get married again. I thought I vocalized what made me unhappy, sorry if you didn't get it. "Useless"? Isn't that a bit harsh? Something is just not right in our relationship...I think I was happy at one point, but now I am not. I shouldn't feel bad about how I feel. Don't take this as an attack, although I kind of felt like your response was an attack. I am waiting things out...maybe I will change my mind. Right now, I just need some space to figure things out. Sorry if you don't agree.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Sorry MT, I forgot to break it down into paragraphs...oops!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

guiltygirl ~ My first marriage ended in divorce. I learned more about being married through that divorce (how to listen and communicate better), then at any time I was married. I hope whatever comes your way you only get better too. I wish you the best.

"Winners are losers that got up to give it on more try."

I really believe this saying. You can only "win" if you try. Sometimes you need to change the playing feild. I understand that. But just remember that the best relationship can happen to you too.

draconis


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I know this isn't your reality, but what if your husband suddenly changed and only wanted sex once a week and wasn't concerned with spicing it up, etc.?

Is part of what you fantasize being alone would entail is not having to perform or be made to feel bad when you don't want to?

If that was out of your marriage picture, would you feel differently?

I bring this up because if you do decide to give him the letter and he is completely devastated, he may take a serious look at that issue and agree to work on it. I would think through how much of that issue has brought you to resent him and push him away and whether there is hope should you finally come to a compromise in the bedroom.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Hey, that's OK, we don't have to agree 

And I don't feel attacked.

Why don't you try to write down exactly what he is doing wrong. As for the sex, I believe you are a very sexual being, but for some reason you have repressed it. Maybe it's catholic guilt. It's written all over you. Men need sex as a gift form their wives as proof of love - your hubby is just being normal. Sex for men is a great stress buster.

But guess what? It's also a great stress buster for women. So when they cut their man off for what ever reason, no one gains.

So what I am suggesting is - hold off on giving him the letter just a few more days, and have a look at this.

If you felt more at home in your body and sexuality, you could be experiencing joy beyond your wildest imagination. You can claim this as your own as soon as you are ready.

I suggest you buy this book: Mating in captivity. Somewhere in it's pages, you will find a case like yours.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

MT- I am going to hold off on the letter, especially since my husband is going out of town. But, I think I have caused a huge problem in our relationship by avoiding close contact with him. We are not even speaking. I know that guys need sex and it's normal. What isn't normal is that he is passive aggressive if he doesn't get it frequently enough. He says or does hurtful things to me. He wants me to change. I can't change who I am. I am not sexually repressed, as I said before. There are many women who do not feel the need to have sex all the time...seriously once a week and I'm good. But, for him, it has to be this special fantasy. He has consistently unrealistic expectations of our sexual relationship. Believe me...I have had a lot of fun sexually with him in the past...pretty kinky stuff from my perspective. Lately though, I am just not attracted to him. When he have sex, I just don't enjoy it. I don't think you have quite diagnosed the problem correctly. I agree with you, I am a sexual being, but it is not the center of my life as it is for many guys. How does sex prove my love? Please explain this to me...I just don't get it. Shouldn't he also prove his love to me somehow? It goes both ways. I feel like this is all a moot point because it is very possible our relationship will soon be ending, thanks to my actions. 

Here's the other part of the issue that I think I figured out on my drive to Oklahoma today. I'm being selfish. I want the opportunity to be independent, stand on my own, date other guys, just to see if I can do it...explore the world a little.

Another thing, it's difficult for you to put yourself in my shoes. You don't live with my husband. The issues are deeper than you make them seem, in my humble opinion. 

What exactly is he doing wrong? I think already said this....being hurtful and mean when I don't give him the attention or sex he wants or needs. Why am I incapable of meeting these needs? And if these are the needs of every man as you say, then what are my chances of ever making a man happy? Like I said though, it goes both ways. The woman deserves to be happy too, don't you think?


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Draconis, I loved your post. Thanks for sharing your personal experience with me. The difficulty I'm having is finding the motivation to do anything about our problems. I used to always go to him feeling bad and crying and saying I would do whatever to fix it. For awhile, I would do as he wanted, then eventually things would revert back to the old way. I refuse to do this anymore and I think he is shocked by that. I am not going to be at fault for everything and feel bad all the time.

I want to do as you said...get better at this. This is terrible to say, but I don't care as much as I used to. I've shed a lot of tears over the last few days, but I think it's because I know in my heart it's over.

Granted, I haven't talked to him about this yet. I'm waiting to see if I miss him when he's gone next week. It's difficult once you've made up your mind to change your thinking...but maybe it's not impossible. We'll see. It's encouraging to hear that "the best relationship can happen to you too." I'm sure if I am deserving of this.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Swedish, you bring up a good point, something that came up in counseling actually. I do have some performance anxiety...not that I can't please him, but that I can't completely fulfill his expectations. That may be what's making me hold back. He's not going to change though and right now, I can't stand being in the same room with him. I don't like giving up...but I feel I already have. Thanks for the input.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

> Another thing, it's difficult for you to put yourself in my shoes. You don't live with my husband. The issues are deeper than you make them seem, in my humble opinion.


You are so right. But remember we posters can only reply to what you write and are limited in scope. You have years of experience in knowing your husband and we only have you word and point of view.

I know that every problem on these forums are much deeper then can ever be written.

I understand your wish for independence, Since you are going to give this one more try (see if you miss him when he is away) I understand no matter what you choose.

I think that too much has happened and you look at the beginning of the relationship and see yourself as weak. Now you want to have not only the strength and confidence that comes with independence. Just remember no matter where you end up you can still be a strong confident person. Some men find that a good trait. (I think the strength and confidence in my wife is her best feature.)

I hope you stay on the boards no matter which road you travel.

draconis


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks for the responses from both "spaces". Your encouragement is really something I need right now. I don't think my husband will reach out to me at this point, and I'm not sure I want him to. I do realize that we will have to work this out sometime though. You were exactly right that I see myself as weak due to earlier happenings in our relationship. Now that I feel strong, I just want to break free I guess. My comment about not being in my shoes was for MT. I just don't think he's seeing the big picture. No offense. I will be on the boards for awhile as I still have a ways to go in dealing with everything. I hope eventually I can be useful to other struggling people just as you are. Bless you.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

guiltygirl-

I am really glad you have put that letter on hold.

I would like to take time to address all your points. I know you think that I am a bit off-beam, so please just take everything I say as a hypothesis.



guiltygirl said:


> But, I think I have caused a huge problem in our relationship by avoiding close contact with him. We are not even speaking.


When things get this bad, it can be a signal that something is rising to the surface of your mind, that only you can deal with, but as is often the case in life, it takes the shape of... a husband 



guiltygirl said:


> What isn't normal is that he is passive aggressive if he doesn't get it frequently enough. He says or does hurtful things to me. He wants me to change.


Ummm, it's not very nice of him, but it is quite common! Sure you need to work things out. I think Swedish had the idea of some "negotiation". But there is so much you can do on your own, and this week apart will be ideal for that.



guiltygirl said:


> He wants me to change. I can't change who I am. I am not sexually repressed, as I said before. There are many women who do not feel the need to have sex all the time...seriously once a week and I'm good.


You are right. You can't change who you are. however, you can awaken to find that your full range of responses can encompass more than you ever thought possible.



guiltygirl said:


> But, for him, it has to be this special fantasy. He has consistently unrealistic expectations of our sexual relationship.


I can see how this could be quite damaging for you if his kink does not feed you in the way that it feeds him. I have a few kinks, but I make sure not to ask my wife to indulge me every time. A lot of the time I try to be her perfect lover and do what she likes best. Other times it is more for me. Sometimes it's shared 50/50. We have been together 19 years, and the sex is just starting to take off for both of us. I do feel that if people have a fetish, they should also make sure to have plenty of plain old vanilla sex too, so that there is bonding. The kinks should be saved for the purpose of spice. 



guiltygirl said:


> Lately though, I am just not attracted to him. When he have sex, I just don't enjoy it. I don't think you have quite diagnosed the problem correctly.


This is very normal, and happens a lot. I am actually writing about this in my book. Stupidly, most men and the media, not to mention doctors and counsellors take it to mean that the woman has gone off sex, when actually, she has only gone off sex with that particular man. What has actually happened is that resentment and familiarity has built up in the relationship, and this causes the man to become un-attractive to the woman. It has nothing at all to do with her sex drive - which would soon perk up when a hunky plumber or cable-guy or whatever crosses her path.



guiltygirl said:


> Believe me...*I have had a lot of fun sexually with him in the past.*..pretty kinky stuff from my perspective.


Unless I misunderstand this sentence, it seems like you actually enjoyed his kinks at one time. So for whatever reason, you may have found the things that used to work, no longer do it for you, or are distasteful. Women often feel like this once they become a mother. They can't hold kinky and mother in their heads at the same time. I beg you to buy that book: Mating in captivity - Esther Perel has 20 years experience in the psycho-sexual arena and is qualified up to the hilt. Whereas I am only an armchair philosopher 



guiltygirl said:


> How does sex prove my love? Please explain this to me...I just don't get it.


Thanks for asking this question, a lot women in your situation don't ask this question, and therefore the situation gets stuck. Basically a lot of men, not all, but a lot, need to be given sex to feel close to the woman their with. Not only that, but it soothes their nervous system like nothing else. Here is a post written by a woman (Arisia) on this board, that sums this up better than I can. See post #4:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/1711-questions-ladies.html#post11519



guiltygirl said:


> Shouldn't he also prove his love to me somehow? It goes both ways. I feel like this is all a moot point because it is very possible our relationship will soon be ending, thanks to my actions.


Yes he should! When I was younger, I had no idea how to make my wife feel special. I made the mistake of doing for her what I wanted done for me. She brought this up this morning, strangely enough. I used to go all over the world on business, and I would bring beck presents for the kids, and nothing for her. Why? Because I don't like gifts. If she wants to make me feel special, she just has to unzip me! Funny how I thought she was the same.  Now I know better. She loves it if I go shopping with her and carry the bags home (we try not to use the car). Shopping for food is a boring monotonous thing, but with a companion, it turns into an outing. 



guiltygirl said:


> What exactly is he doing wrong? I think already said this....being hurtful and mean when I don't give him the attention or sex he wants or needs. Why am I incapable of meeting these needs? And if these are the needs of every man as you say, then what are my chances of ever making a man happy? Like I said though, it goes both ways. The woman deserves to be happy too, don't you think?


Well, in all the above, I hope I have pointed out that each of you is more than capable of meeting each other's needs. Yes, you deserve to be happy, but in a marriage with small kids, believe me, happiness is a skill. Sometimes my wife or I or both wake up feeling dead, but we pull each other up, and most of the time, we are smiling by lunch time.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

I started a new thread, but I wanted to respond to this reply. I am not surprised you are writing a book...you have a lot to say. I'm not sure about the book you mentioned, but I'll consider it. Thanks for what you wrote....it was actually very helpful. It led me to call my husband and talk about things. See the new thread for the info. I'm still not sure if things will work out, but I'm at least willing to give it another try. I do have one problem though...I don't know what makes me happy. (This is in my other thread) Anyway, thanks again!


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