# Possibility of Divorce



## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Not exactly sure how to start this but I will give it a try. Been together about 20 years, two kids and one from her high school years. Both kids are in their teen and the stepdaughter is in early 20s. Everything went according to plan for the first 16-17 years. With kids, deadlines, job stress, the typical for any family, we drifted. I will not say drifted apart. At least not yet. Slowly arguments escalated but were de-fused, then semi, followed by let to grow in resentment. I was as guilty as my wife was until I learned to own your actions. I was under the impression she was too. Fast forward about a year and she became more disgruntled about everything. Me, her job, the kids, you name it.

I was told by her we were not headed in a positive direction. When I asked her why and what ways to fix this, I heard nothing. Every negative thing within her life was soon, somehow tied to me. Again the arguments but this time it did not end well. Since March we have somewhat had a standoff. One corner of the house, other at the other. Interact with the kids and zoom zoom. Kids are aware, several arguments have carried over in front of them. I try the best I can to not argue in front of them. Often she seems to want this.

As far as sex goes, it is non-existent. I have checked the phones, receipts, money transactions. All are open to each of us. All I can think of is a burner phone. Tried a VAR in the car and after 5 weeks, nothing. Well she was griping about me to her female friends but that is normal. What not was normal was things she would complain about, to them, but of course, not to me. I did not appreciate that. Is she cheating? Is she talking to someone? Has she an eye on someone? I don't know.

Talking about our problems to others and not to me, in addition to blaming me for everything that does not go her way has led me to question whether I want to stay in this marriage or not. We went in this together, we should go down together. A friend said she is playing from a different playbook than you.

A friend sent me here. Gave me a lot of reading material. But mentioned it never hurts to hear varying opinions. I am certain I left a ton out but it has taken me two months to even post this.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Keep your guard up on whether she has her eye on someone. Also, its notable that now the kids are almost out if the house and now she doesn't need daddy/hubby around so much so now comes the set up of "You always sucked". After the fact of course. 

Also, I assume she works outside the home. Could she be having a fling at work? Those are hard to catch but not impossible. 

Sit her down and tell her you think you two need marriage counseling, Don't tell her that you are suspicious of another man or that you have been VARing her car. Stay dark on that and continue to do it. Just point out the obvious issues you have noted above and own your own contributions. State plainly that you want to fix this because you love her and want your marriage to succeed. Because the direction you are headed is divorce. If she hems and haws about marriage counseling and starts sitting on the fence on whether she actually loves you and wants to be married to you then file for divorce for her. But remind her she has to own the divorce because you want the marriage to work but she refuses. Remind her that it is quite telling that all this comes about just as the house is about to be empty after you helped raise her kid and the 2 you both had. 

My 2 cents. Good luck.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Since the VAR has caught nothing, put a GPS on the car. Does her phone have find my phone on it where you can track her where abouts?
As said earlier, workplace affairs can be near impossible to catch. 

Also, a loss of respect is a common problem. Read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY. They can both be downloaded.

What was her complaints to her friends? We’re they totally off the mark? Or did it sound like she was just making stuff up. 

Do not argue with her, that works in her favor. Simply, state your case and walk away. If she complains, just tell her you are sorry she feels that way. 

Look up the 180 and apply it. It sounds like you’re done.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I would also be angry about my husband talking to his friends about me, so I understand how you feel about that. The only thing I don't understand is you focusing on that. Instead of considering the things she said, you parlayed that into her having an affair even though you found no evidence of it. This is really very telling of the dynamic between the two of you. You place no importance on the things she said, but you indict her for saying them. So what that she didn't share them with you. The fact is that you now know what she thinks and how she feels, but you conveniently ignore that part.

You said she blames you for everything, but you're doing the same to her. You're not considering any possibility that she is entitled to her feelings and her anger toward you. You are not considering any possibility that she might be right, nor are you addressing those things about yourself that she complained about. You're just deflecting everything onto her, just like you say she does. Moreover, you both have problems, but you came here blaming her for them, not taking any responsibility at all. 

Soooo . . . pot meet kettle, as the saying goes.

The question now is: What do you plan to do about it? 

Are you going to keep coming here to complain to strangers that your wife complains to her friends? Or are you going to be the first one to attempt to mend your marriage? As long as this goes on between the two of you, there will remain the possibility of divorce. If that is your concern, then I suggest you start somewhere, and the only one you can control in this situation is yourself. You're the one here complaing about your wife and asking for opinions, so you're the one who has to take the first steps.

It is of course always suggested that people seek counseling. I suggest that too, but there's a little twist to the approach that I suggest. There are many barriers to going to counseling, the first one being that finding a good counseling is not nearly so simple as it seems since they are not all the same. Some are good. Some are bad. And some can make your marriage worse than it already is. Another barrier might be the insurance/financial issue. So the twist I suggest is that you counsel yourselves with the guidance of MarriageBuilders.com.

All their lives, people are told "Marriage is a lot of work," but no one really understands what that means. But this is it - this is the work that is required. Unfortunately, nobody ever wants to do the work. They might start but don't stick to it. Even the best marriage counseling works for a short while, and then they stop going and stop applying the principles.

But I'm telling you it's a LOT of work. That site is a LOT of reading, and there are a LOT of things you have to do. The site provides all the tools you need to change the dynamic of your marriage. And, what you won't like is the hardest part because that part requires you and your wife to not only address your own actions and your own ways of thinking, but also to change those things about yourselves that are not conducive to building a good marriage into the thoughts and behaviors that do promote a good marriage. That's the hardest part because nobody wants to change, nobody wants to accept their own faults, and nobody likes being vulnerable. But all of that is required. All of that is the work you both have to do.

I suggest you spend some time reading the articles on the left ribbon bar so you know the direction you are going, and then sit your wife down and tell her:

"I don't want to argue anymore and don't want to live in separate parts of the house. I want to make every effort to mend our marriage and make you happy. Will you please join me?" (The "make you happy" part is added so as to entice her to climb on board, as well as to show her you really are concerned and do love her. You have to be sincere when you say it.)

Tell her that in order to avoid arguments, you don't want to talk about the past or try to settle the disagreements you currently have. Let her know you want to move forward in building a strong marriage, with the two of you learning how to avoid disagreements and behaviors that cause you both to get angry with one another. Tell her you and she can later revisit some of the current disagreements after you've both learned how to fairly and objectively address them but in the meantime, ask her to begin a better journey with you.

Pick 1 or 2 days a week that you will read an article together and discuss them, and then spend subsequent days applying those concepts. Follow the next week with a new article, discussion, and application. Do the worksheets. And then once a month, take your relationship temperature to measure progress.

I suggest reading each article and worksheet in the order they are posted but with one exception: After you have completed "The Love Bank" article, then skip down to "The Policy of Joint Agreement" article, and move back in line after "The Love Bank."

Also read His Needs, Her Needs by the same author/counselor of the Marriage Builders site.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

How long are you willing to tolerate the current arrangement without action?

I am not asking this rhetorically. It will tie in to how to best advise you.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

The action of giving someone else what is rightfully the husbands is the classic "red flag". You may as well as calling it a EA in it's own right. She is going OUTSIDE the marriage for gratification. 

But you can waste all the time on trying to find that one needle in a haystack that says cheating, or just accept that she is checked out and moving on. Other words, the kids are grown and you are fired from husband duty....

Would she go out on a date night with just the two of you to a quiet dinner and coffee? Perfect opportunity to not place blame or whatever. Just to say that you are available to work on the relationship and love that you two had. Life's tough, and it can be done if both parties are willing to meet in the middle. But if she gaslights and blame shifts and cannot even admit the loving part of the marriage, then she is done. File and start the 180. You need happiness, and she won't provide it. And if it comes out there is another man in her pocket. So what. She owns it, not you. You are better than her. 

I will pray for your marriage. Take care.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Keep your guard up on whether she has her eye on someone. Also, its notable that now the kids are almost out if the house and now she doesn't need daddy/hubby around so much so now comes the set up of "You always sucked". After the fact of course.
> 
> Also, I assume she works outside the home. Could she be having a fling at work? Those are hard to catch but not impossible.
> 
> ...


Thank you! She pretty much goes to work and comes home. She works with a group of toxic females. All divorced and bitter. Those were her words soon after she started working there. As for ownership of my mistakes I have no problem listing mine and the steps needed to improve. This was from several years ago. And when she too admitted and improved.

It seems to have went from 6 days of ILY and 1 day IHY to 6 days IHY and 1 day ILY. She has a short fuse with the kids too. I guess they picked up from me to not engage. Me, I just walk away. They can't. They do but she escalates. She will blow up at them and feel bad about it the next day. It wasn't long before I called her on blowing up at the kids in an effort to get me to step into her anger arena. I have talked with both and they have an understanding of my side (her blowups). They also are aware to pay little heed to her blow ups because she does come around the next day, if even that long. She was upset I did not have her back but I can not have one's back when I disagree with their stance.

I have a timeline for her to decide if she wants to work on the issues which would be presented or to just say she is done. She is not aware of the timeline.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> How long are you willing to tolerate the current arrangement without action?
> 
> I am not asking this rhetorically. It will tie in to how to best advise you.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


My timeline is up this month. I will file for a divorce. I do not want to but I will not tolerate the way things are. I am n the fence about a divorce but I am certain I will not live in a separated household We have discussed divorce in brutal honesty. Do either of us want it? I don't think so. But neither are happy either. She is not keen on MC. I have a MC session set up a week before my deadline. She will be notified several days before. The kids will be away and she can come or not. That will tell me a lot of how she feels about working on things.

On her good days, we do get along. On her bad days, outbursts. I am not o.k. with that.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Could she be undergoing menopause? Not saying having a short fuse is a symptom as i know very little about menopause. Also, could she be ill and hiding it from family? Just some thoughts.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> Since the VAR has caught nothing, put a GPS on the car. Does her phone have find my phone on it where you can track her where abouts?
> As said earlier, workplace affairs can be near impossible to catch.
> 
> Also, a loss of respect is a common problem. Read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY. They can both be downloaded.
> ...


Her mileage and schedule have not deviated much at all. But the GPS is a sound piece of advice. Thanks! I have read MMSL, NMMNG, HOTYN, His-Her Needs, 5 LL. I refuse to argue with her, that is when she wants me in the anger circle. I will not fall into that. She respects my 180 but when she does a small thing unasked, and does not get the desired result she seeks, she anger dumps.

She would complain about how drunk I was the night before. Yet I had wine with dinner, played ball with my son outside, drove to rent a movie. Drunk? Hardly. Or saying I begged her for sex and she shot me down. Funny being I was with several guy friends watching a baseball game night before. If I recall I did hug and kiss her on the cheek. If you ask me her nose is growing.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MThomas said:


> My timeline is up this month. I will file for a divorce. I do not want to but I will not tolerate the way things are. I am n the fence about a divorce but I am certain I will not live in a separated household We have discussed divorce in brutal honesty. Do either of us want it? I don't think so. But neither are happy either. She is not keen on MC. I have a MC session set up a week before my deadline. She will be notified several days before. The kids will be away and she can come or not. That will tell me a lot of how she feels about working on things.
> 
> On her good days, we do get along. On her bad days, outbursts. I am not o.k. with that.


Good. Go to the MC appoyno matter what she decides to do.

"Wife, I have scheduled us a counseling appointment. I would appreciate you coming to the appointment."

Nothing more.

You know what to do if she shows...or doesn't. 

She will probably use this as yet another reason to blow up on you.

"Wife, I find very telling your reaction to me trying to bring our marriage back from the brink."

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Could she be undergoing menopause? Not saying having a short fuse is a symptom as i know very little about menopause. Also, could she be ill and hiding it from family? Just some thoughts.


It is not menopause. She is still in her late 30s. I have asked her what makes her so upset. I said if it is me, then tell me. I did get replies like she is upset I don't take the trash out before bed, I wait until the morning. Or how I make it a point to inform her to pick up after herself. I pick up after myself, we taught all of the kids to, she should as well. Another one of those actions I feel she may do just to start another trip to the anger circle. I'm not talking about a candy wrapper or a water bottle, more clothes flung everywhere, dishes in the sink (when one cooks, other does dishes but only when the kids do not), or saying she will straighten something up this coming weekend and months later, still there. 

She was really close to her parents up until she became pregnant as a teen. They demonized her. They have put that in the past but my wife hasn't. I know that still bothers her but she slowly pulls away from talking about it. It has been at least 7 or 8 years since she really opened up about it.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Good. Go to the MC appoyno matter what she decides to do.
> 
> "Wife, I have scheduled us a counseling appointment. I would appreciate you coming to the appointment."
> 
> ...


I believe in leaving the door wide open. But it is slowly closing. I can almost feel her trying to reach out but it is followed by outbursts of anger. Her anger does not bother me at all, I learned how to handle that a few years ago. My overwhelming complaint is when she brings the kids into it. That is the part I find hardest not to engage. She knows this. 

Stepdaughter blew an essay recently and she berated her. I stopped my y parents house and dug out an old essay I had to do. A big fat D+. But diploma does begin with a D right? My next paper was a B. I finished the class with an A-. I did this to show stepdaughter she can bounce back from this and to remind my wife, that was me at one time. We got serious right after that semester. She proofread my papers. Yes she remembered.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

I find it interesting that she is pretty much exaggerating and lying to ingratiate herself with that cabal of toxic, bitter divorced females and is now trying to be a member of that miserable club. Misery loves company. 

Have you directly pointed that out to her? 

Also, when is the last time you 2 had a romantic getaway ? The stresses of modern families can take a toll on moms and dads love life.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I will address one thing here and it may or may not apply to you.

I am one who unloads to my friends about my husband. They are all female and all are married.....hardly bitter. And I try to give a complete picture.....clearly my hb has good qualities or I wouldn't have married him. And they know this because they are married and understand how marriages work. 

If he put a VAR in my car he'd get an earful.

But often I need to vent, and I don't feel safe talking to my hb. He's very conflict avoidant and gets his back up when I try to approach him with things that bother me.....particularly if they're about him.


He'll ask what's wrong but the truth is that he doesn't actually want to know because conflict of any kind makes him uncomfortable. What he really wants is for me to pretend everything's great. 

I've actually been accused of "wanting to be miserable". In his world you just bury everything and pretend things are fine, and if your wife tries to approach you then you get nasty. It's much more important that he not be uncomfortable then his wife get anything resolved.

He doesn't want me to be unhappy but he also doesn't want to have to deal with anything.

So I'll ask you: are you someone that can handle hearing things you don't want to hear? Do you listen if she does approach you? Do you shut her down and tell her she's wrong in how she feels?

Maybe none of this applies and she just won't tell you anything. Maybe she's conflict avoidant.....i don't know. 

I just think it's worth asking yourself if you're someone that can be approached with things that upset you. Are you able to calmly discuss tough things?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I applaud your seeking help.

Young moms have unusual responsibilities and later in life have a tendency to regret some of their 'losses'--fun, freedom, even respect. This especially as she approaches new times in her life.

She is likely peri-menopausal. Sounds like her anger has exacerbated and, for whatever reason, you are receiving much of the blame. Nothing wrong with handling this in different ways. Anger is like acid, it eats the vessel that holds it. You are wise to see that without corrective action y'all are headed toward a more serious fracture. 

Things are worse for 4+ months--and intimacy usually goes before sex becomes nonexistent. Women especially need intimacy and feelings of connection. It would be kinda tough to work on that now--feel artificial unless you can somehow work in a few winks, smiles, touches (especially on the cheek), eye hugs--all without sex as end result. Marriage counseling would be a good plan if both of you buy in.

Was there elaboration on a 'different playbook.' Seems that might be a key clue. Also, are there any signs of depression? Sounds like you have talked in the past. Ask her what you can do for her because you care (without seeking for yourself) because positive results will be reciprocal.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I find it interesting that she is pretty much exaggerating and lying to ingratiate herself with that cabal of toxic, bitter divorced females and is now trying to be a member of that miserable club. Misery loves company.
> 
> Have you directly pointed that out to her?
> 
> Also, when is the last time you 2 had a romantic getaway ? The stresses of modern families can take a toll on moms and dads love life.



You are 100% correct. She was nothing like this until she had been working there for awhile. I work with insanely bitter people and renowned cheaters, but I don't comply to their whims and activities. We used to have free nights at least 2x a month. We both looked forward to them. But the dark cloud came. Our last one consisted of her yelling and cussing in public. Cussing does not bother me but if you are yelling those out in front of families and kids, I'm sorry but you appear like someone with a very limited vocabulary. She made a fool of herself but would not own it. I handed her the keys and I took a cab home.

When she acts like an entitled 12 yo, I treat her like one. Then she regresses to a 6 yo. Recently she burns out before she owns it.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> The action of giving someone else what is rightfully the husbands is the classic "red flag". You may as well as calling it a EA in it's own right. She is going OUTSIDE the marriage for gratification.
> 
> But you can waste all the time on trying to find that one needle in a haystack that says cheating, or just accept that she is checked out and moving on. Other words, the kids are grown and you are fired from husband duty....
> 
> ...


Thank you for the prayers. I sort of need some. I think she wants things to continue as are. I will not accept that. I do not mind filing for a divorce, it's just the emotions afterwards. I can not mix up the wife 2003 style and the one 2018 style. They differ drastically. 

If she has another guy, then she does. I will help her pack only if she signs those papers as she trots off. At first I saw me divorcing her over her actions and inactions towards me but it has more shifted to how she mistreats the kids. TBH that FFd my decision. I don't yell at the kids when I have a crap day, neither should anyone else, including her.

Stepdaughter already said she has tried talking to her. She and stepdaughter have problems. When she found out stepdaughter was more in my corner, she flipped her lid. Technically stepdaughter is such but she calls me dad. I raised her and was there for her. She checks on me more than anyone. If I met you in public with her, I would present her as my daughter. Outside of a few guy friends, she has helped me through this more than any.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

StarFires said:


> I would also be angry about my husband talking to his friends about me, so I understand how you feel about that. The only thing I don't understand is you focusing on that. Instead of considering the things she said, you parlayed that into her having an affair even though you found no evidence of it.
> 
> *Never said she IS having an affair. Re-read OP. I do not share my personal issues with others UNLESS I am being painted as a villain, and to exacerbate this, lying to make me the one. *
> 
> ...


I skipped the last half of your reply. I know why I did and you do too. You sound angry. I'm not angry. I'm upset things ended up the way they have. But under NO circumstance am I going to take full blame. I have laid my cards on the table. Spelled it out completely.

A friend from here, sent me here to get varying opinions. Guess he wasn't kidding. Main point is I am looking out for my best interest and my children. We all 3 (well call it 4) have to hear it. I'm tired of it. I VARd to see if there was someone else and heard what I heard. Didn't plan on it. My friends know she and I are having problems but not one time did I throw her under the bus. I could go on but if you don't get it by now, you ain't gonna.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> I will address one thing here and it may or may not apply to you.
> 
> I am one who unloads to my friends about my husband. They are all female and all are married.....hardly bitter. And I try to give a complete picture.....clearly my hb has good qualities or I wouldn't have married him. And they know this because they are married and understand how marriages work.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your example. I have no problemo in admitting if I am wrong. Does not bother me in any shape or form. What I don't do is throw her under the bus. Make up stretched truths to collect guilt stamps. All I do is say we're having issues and never go into detail. I would say communication issues or not connecting, broad statements. She is calling me out as a drunkard. Sorry but that's quite difference.

We've almost raised three kids. Few years that will be complete. If she is so unhappy and miserable, then she should depart. I am to that point and if we can't break through barriers soon, I'm gone. I can't count the times I asked her WTF is wrong and if it's me, tell me. 

If I drank 12 beers 4x a week and left her to tend to the house and kids and be zoned out, I would get it. I do not do that, nothing remotely close. I have friends who do and wonder why their wife is tired of it. Well I could see why! If my wife did that, I'd damn sure call her out.

She is angry, closed off and is dead set on not talking about it. Something akin to a friend who was depressed for a number of years but refused to talk about it. He remained depressed for a long time. When he finally told his story, things changed. 

"IF" I make her that miserable and she is fearful of talking about it, then she should, get out of this marriage. But my door is always open. If she can't sit down and talk to me, then communication is lost. I told her if we can't talk and work on whatever is our disturbance, we are pretty much toast.

I will file this month if nothing changes after MC. I have read things change quickly after the filing. Some get better, some get worse. All I know is I am tired of being in neutral. 

I never VARd her in the past, never gave me a reason to. Her actions gave me a reason. Had she not gave me a reason, I'd have never know about her nose stretching lies. There are plenty more than just the two I mentioned.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

After answering replies I have update.

Stepdaughter used our car. Discovered phone in the trunk. One number in called section. She called it, he answered hello sweetheart. She hung up. She called it later, VM directly to wife 
:this is xxx and I so want to take your call xxxx (wife's name).

If this is the guy I am thinking of, he went to school with us (not baby daddy). He lives far away according to FB. She would not talk on our plan because everything is saved to monitor the kids. So this is a certain EA to say the least. 

I'm done 100% if it's who I think it is. I'm 99% sure it is.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MThomas said:


> After answering replies I have update.
> 
> Stepdaughter used our car. Discovered phone in the trunk. One number in called section. She called it, he answered hello sweetheart. She hung up. She called it later, VM directly to wife
> :this is xxx and I so want to take your call xxxx (wife's name).
> ...


Burner phone, eh?

And now you know the missing piece. 

It has to be painful and liberating all at the same time.

File...have her served...prepare to move on. Make sure the other kids know why.

Please don't be that guy that uses the need for "more evidence" to justify inaction. 

I would keep the MC appointment. However, your approach should change.

"Since my wife is cheating on me, I am here to find the path to divorce that hurts the children the least." Take that approach whether she shows or not. 

Let her gaslight all she wants, but don't disclose the burner unless SD has already said something. You know what you know, and it is enough.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

MThomas said:


> After answering replies I have update.
> 
> Stepdaughter used our car. Discovered phone in the trunk. One number in called section. She called it, he answered hello sweetheart. She hung up. She called it later, VM directly to wife
> :this is xxx and I so want to take your call xxxx (wife's name).
> ...


You know I kept reading your thread and just could not understand her behavior. I just could not understand it. 

So now you know, but I kept thinking that she HAS to be having and affair, because this is exactly how they act when they are in an affair. 

Are you even going to confront, or just file?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It seems that you have done your homework, @MThomas inasfar as monitoring cell bills and trying the mobile VAR in her car!

I would surmise that her "suitor" might actually be "marital depression!" 

Having said that, have you two ever been to or considered either marital(MC) or individual counseling(IC)? *


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Considering you have teen kids at home, and it appears she is in a long distance EA, would you consider attempting R with her? Given what you know so far it seems she has not had a PA. "Just" an EA. Is that difference important to you?

So you understand my viewpoint, normally I am on the bandwagon to nuke a cheater from orbit. At this point in my life (kids all out of the house), I would dump a cheater in less than a heartbeat regardless if it was EA or PA. D can be tough on teens, which to me weights the scale towards trying to R. My kids certainly had the typical teen anxieties, which led me to decide I had to try to stay a few more years until the last daughter was out of the house. It was the right decision, but my big mistake was the idea divorce was not an option. My now xw sensed that, and she chose to abuse it. 

Disloyal spouses need to feel fear that the marriage is on the line, so if you do consider attempting R I would advise you to do it differently than I did. You should follow the TAM protocol of filing for D and then seeing if she works hard to earn her way back into the M. She needs to believe you are more likely to D than stay even if you actually are hoping for successful R.

You do need to investigate a lot more to learn what the true extent of her infidelity is. Do not tell her you know of the burner phone. Also, I would discuss it with your daughter about it being something you will handle and she should just stay out of it. Ask her not to tell her mother she found the phone. I am concerned you are using your daughter as a bit of a confidant or ally, but that really isn't her place in this. Her mom didn't cheat on your daughter, she's cheated on you. There's lots of gray zone which can be difficult to navigate in this situation, especially with an adult child.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MThomas said:


> I'm done 100% if it's who I think it is. I'm 99% sure it is.


100% seems about right. Someone who gets a burner phone is going to be hell to be married to. 

If it were me I would find out who it is, find out if he is married. If so I would tell his wife and serve her divorce papers at her work on the same day. I would already be on vacation for a week. Tell her parents if still living and tell your kids where you are going and why. Leave the burner phone on the kitchen table. And then be incommunicado for a week and do something fun. 

Let her suffer for a good long week without knowing anything from you. That should wake her up. Not to take her back but just to let her know what an ******* she is. Then move on with you life. At this point your life will be better without her. You will recover in a year or two, you may even be happier. If you stay and work it out you will be haunted forever with the fact that you are giving your life to someone who treated you like garbage. Not sure how anyone can be happy with that.

I mean she left a message that was a joint account with her and him on the phone. Who does that, just a POS. 

Also don't assume it's this guy, trace the phone number.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MThomas said:


> After answering replies I have update.
> 
> Stepdaughter used our car. Discovered phone in the trunk. One number in called section. She called it, he answered hello sweetheart. She hung up. She called it later, VM directly to wife
> :this is xxx and I so want to take your call xxxx (wife's name).
> ...


Now you know. You sound pretty level headed. Make a decision. You don't need to wallow in the mire of Infidelty. Indecision at this time will just keep you there.

Sorry man.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> I will address one thing here and it may or may not apply to you.
> 
> I am one who unloads to my friends about my husband. They are all female and all are married.....hardly bitter. And I try to give a complete picture.....clearly my hb has good qualities or I wouldn't have married him. And they know this because they are married and understand how marriages work.
> 
> ...


As most suspected if it looks, quacks and walks like a duck it usually is.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> As most suspected if it looks, quacks and walks like a duck it usually is.


And this has what to do with my question?

I'm failing to see how it isn't valid. 

And OP has already addressed it.

Hard as it may be to process, if I had an affair, which I have not, the issues i have with my hb would still be valid. It would only mean I made a ****ty choice to deal with it.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> After answering replies I have update.
> 
> Stepdaughter used our car. Discovered phone in the trunk. One number in called section. She called it, he answered hello sweetheart. She hung up. She called it later, VM directly to wife
> :this is xxx and I so want to take your call xxxx (wife's name).
> ...


It is a testament to how well you raised your step daughter that she will not cover up her mother's lies. Her own daughter smelled a rat. 

We all know what a burner is for so I say lets dispel with the what ifs and just correlate her behavior changes along with the burner and call it what it is. An affair. At least emotional and possibly physical. Her behavior including making up fights as an excuse so she would not have sex with you makes me think it's been physical. Standard cheaters play book all of this is. 

Assuming your wife is not yet aware that the burner has been found take it. Start calling the number and get hold of the OM's wife. Compare notes. Compare note on absences where they possibly could have hooked up. Sit your wife at the table and call the number in front of her and put it on speaker phone. Let the lies fly. So it begins. 

I wouldn't bother with scheduling marriage counselling. Having a burner is a level of deception plus coupled with her denials and behavior changes tells you all you need to know. MC only works if 2 people admit what the problems are and she is no where near that. 

Sorry you are here.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> It is a testament to how well you raised your step daughter that she will not cover up her mother's lies. Her own daughter smelled a rat.
> 
> We all know what a burner is for so I say lets dispel with the what ifs and just correlate her behavior changes along with the burner and call it what it is. An affair. At least emotional and possibly physical. Her behavior including making up fights as an excuse so she would not have sex with you makes me think it's been physical. Standard cheaters play book all of this is.
> 
> ...


She's a very deceptive and crafty cheater. Free her and yourself. Let her go ASAP


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

I can't post to each without repeating myself so I will try this. It was the guy I thought. He lives about 800 miles away. No way possible they ever met. And he is married. I will inform the OMW. That is a 100% definite.

The OM, he and I played baseball and football together. I even remember when he and my wife dated. We partied together and hung out several times. We were not close though. Further investigating yielded a friend on his FB list. My wife's first name and maiden name. Stepdaughter was a large help. I honestly think she is more PO'd than I am.

SD took awhile to but she guessed her mom's password. The conversations went just what you would think. 
I wish I had married you (funny she dumped him)
Our children would have been so beautiful
xxx(me) has not satisfied me in bed in years (since she was graphic, so will I. I always had to place a hand towel beside me while giving her oral. If I didn't I'd look like a kid who fell off his bike on the way to school)
I told him (me) why I was so unhappy LIE
I would love to move up to xxxx with the kids. The winters there I hear are breathtaking. Well got some news for you sweetheart, you ain't taking the kids any damn where.

I could go on. Yes he says he wants to leave his wife. There is no way anything physical has went on, nothing mentioned on either end. My point is this, had they had the chance, I am certain they would have. I do plan to tell her parents. That will be interesting. They demonized her for getting preggy as a teen (you had dreams, aspirations, goals, you're throwing you life away). As I said, she never really got over that. Her mom will take her o the mat. I don't want to be around when SD confronts her. Not sure when to tell the kids but I doubt it will be a shock.

We spoke on divorce before. We were (then) in agreement to an exact 50/50 custody. One child at each place (the residences would be less than 4 miles apart), every other day 4x and 3 together. It can work, SD already said she is on board if needed to transport. The money part will be fuzzy, always is. I make more than her but not by a large amount. But I do side deals which pushes me up to a lot more cash income.

I feel like ****, I won't lie. I'm disappointed but not surprised. Somewhat like watching Star Wars for the 100th time but still wondering a bit, what if Vader beats Luke this time. I still love her and will for a long time. In a way I always will. But this is a dealbreaker for me. I may post later to get things out.

Thank everyone for their replies. 90% of the responses came exactly the way my friend told me. They line up with what he and others have said too. A person asked me what I meant by playing from a different playbook. The way it was explained to me was she has a certain expectation of how she expects me to react. She may want me to react in a way that initiates her collecting anger stamps. When I refuse to play the part she wishes me to, she throws anger dumps and sits in the anger circle. Sorry but I don;t play those types of hide and seek BS. There is much truth to how he explained it. 

As for confronting her. I'm looking forward to it but dreading it at the same time. I've read on this forum for about a year. Confrontations rarely ever go well. I am keeping my MC appointment and expressed desire she attend. Either way I will go. If she goes, I will confront her then. If not, I will wait until the family is together, then confront. I will leave for several days and stay at one of my friend's place. Whichever one has the higher proof liquor. 

My stepdaughter's suggestion is better but way too brutal. Something about those daddy's girls.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MC in the middle of an affair is a waste of time and money. If you get a bad one (good chance of that) they'll blame you and try to rugsweep the affair.

I hope you captured the screen prints. If it were me I'd send them to his wife before confrontation so they don't have a chance to cover it up with you being a crazy jealous husband. That's usually the way it goes.

Sorry you're here.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MThomas said:


> The OM, he and I played baseball and football together. I even remember when he and my wife dated. We partied together and hung out several times. We were not close though. Further investigating yielded a friend on his FB list. My wife's first name and maiden name. Stepdaughter was a large help. I honestly think she is more PO'd than I am.
> 
> She's a very skilled cheater
> 
> ...


Read up and fully apply a hard 180 no contact. Staying in this won't get you a thing. I wouldn't let her know what I had or knew. Your exposure will do that for you. Let her live in limbo like you have.

You got everything you need. Make the hard decision and go with it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Your SD is a peach. You have to be proud of that. Her looking out for you says a lot about you and your parenting skills.

Give that kid a big hug if you haven't.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I also think that attending any kind of MC is a pointless waste of time and money. 

In MC the 'client' is the marriage and is who the MC works for. 

There is no marriage here at this point. She has been completely hostile and disrespectful and disparaging to you while making lovey dovey with another man. She has tore up the marriage card, set it on fire and has scattered the ashes. There is really no point for MC and an honest counselor worth his/her weight in beatle dung will not even take this case at this stage of the game if you have your heart set on divorce and are simply using his/her time and office space to confront an affair. 

If you need some professional assistance to sort out your feelings and establish your set of priorities and to help formulate your own plan of action for this, then IC would be a perfectly reasonable course of action. 

I would even concede that if upon confrontation she suddenly does a complete turnaround and pleads for MC and urges working things out and you want to give it one last Hail Mary at her urging and she is willing to do all the heavy lifting of MC, then you can consider it at that point if it is her urging.

But I see no reason for you to pursue MC at this point.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> And this has what to do with my question?
> 
> I'm failing to see how it isn't valid.
> 
> ...


While I don't know your original question, your issues with your husband would get to take a back seat to your hypothetical infidelity. 

And yes, his wife is toast now. And she should be. 

This is the reason that she is acting the way she has, she has another man on the side and in her mind, OP just does not add up. 

What I think is so interesting is that EVERYONE thought she was having some type of affair, it just had all the aspects. 

Now we know...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

***** And just a quick side note to some of the newer members of this board, This case is a perfect example of why some of us older members of TAM are on high alert for an affair any time a married woman shows a relatively sudden change of behavior and starts to show an ongoing hostility, bitterness, hypercriticalness, loss of marital intimacy and sex life and outright disrespect towards her H. 

Any time we see an H saying that his wife has become hypercritical of him, angry for no apparent reason towards him and life in the bedroom goes cold quickly, many of us advise doing a serious and mindful investigation into the possibility of another man, even though no other evidence of an affair is present. 


Things like change of behavior/demeanor, hostility, hypercriticalness, anger for no reason, disrespect etc etc is in and of it'self evidence of an A. 


It's not smoking-gun proof. But it is a major red flag and is probable cause for a serious investigation.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MThomas said:


> I can't post to each without repeating myself so I will try this. It was the guy I thought. He lives about 800 miles away. No way possible they ever met. And he is married. I will inform the OMW. That is a 100% definite.


Dude I hate to be the guy but that is the reason they have planes. We have read enough stories on here to know that it's always possible. Think about it, how many guys are going to be expending all the effort without the possibility of sex. Also she doesn't have to go anywhere he can come to her. Then it's just a day off from work and a hotel room for her. You would never have to know. I know it sucks, it makes me sick writing it but just don't assume. If you are thinking of staying together at least broach the possibility of a lie detector test. See how she reacts. Also compare notes with his wife, did he go on any trips lately.

I'm sorry but cheaters lie, and sex is 50% of the reason they cheat. For guys it's like 75%. They usually don't do it for a texting buddy.


----------



## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> ***** And just a quick side note to some of the newer members of this board, This case is a perfect example of why some of us older members of TAM are on high alert for an affair any time a married woman shows a relatively sudden change of behavior and starts to show an ongoing hostility, bitterness, hypercriticalness, loss of marital intimacy and sex life and outright disrespect towards her H.
> 
> Any time we see an H saying that his wife has become hypercritical of him, angry for no apparent reason towards him and life in the bedroom goes cold quickly, many of us advise doing a serious and mindful investigation into the possibility of another man, even though no other evidence of an affair is present.
> 
> ...


This 100%. But how many times does a guy post for months about the dead bedroom and her attitude only to find out that she is in an affair. 

THIS it the reason that us old timers say what we do. 

It is my estimation that MOST of the guys that have a dead bedroom have a cheating or previously cheating wife.

But OH NO, the old timers are crazy and jump to conclusions. Where here is a perfect example. 

And all the newbies need to watch OP's WW say how it is just an EA, and maybe it is. Like that matters. Mean while she has put him through hell because he is not the fantasy OM.

For what it is worse, if she has been on any trips or out of pocket for any reason, my money says she saw and screwed her OM.

Typical...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sokillme said:


> dude i hate to be the guy but that is the reason they have planes. We have read enough stories on here to know that it's always possible. Think about it, how many guys are going to be expending all the effort without the possibility of sex. Also she doesn't have to go anywhere he can come to her. Then it's just a day off from work and a hotel room for her. You would never have to know. I know it sucks, it makes me sick writing it but just don't assume. If you are thinking of staying together at least broach the possibility of a lie detector test. See how she reacts. Also compare notes with his wife, did he go on any trips lately.
> 
> I'm sorry but cheaters lie, and sex is 50% of the reason they cheat. For guys it's like 75%. They usually don't do it for a texting buddy.


qft !!!


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Marc878 said:


> MC in the middle of an affair is a waste of time and money. If you get a bad one (good chance of that) they'll blame you and try to rugsweep the affair.
> 
> I hope you captured the screen prints. If it were me I'd send them to his wife before confrontation so they don't have a chance to cover it up with you being a crazy jealous husband. That's usually the way it goes.
> 
> Sorry you're here.


Allow me to re-phrase, she will be exposed. There will NOT be any "begging me back." Not no but hell no. As my friend would say, IDGAF. 

Even IF this did not go down, I was prepared to walk over her treatment of the kids. Oh and me too.

Edit-All screenshot by my SD.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MThomas said:


> Allow me to re-phrase, she will be exposed. There will NOT be any "begging me back." Not no but hell no. As my friend would say, IDGAF.
> 
> Even IF this did not go down, I was prepared to walk over her treatment of the kids. Oh and me too.
> 
> *Edit-All screenshot by my SD.*


Man that is one great kid. Drop the step. She's your daughter through and through.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MThomas said:


> As for confronting her. I'm looking forward to it but dreading it at the same time. I've read on this forum for about a year. Confrontations rarely ever go well. I am keeping my MC appointment and expressed desire she attend. Either way I will go. If she goes, I will confront her then. If not, I will wait until the family is together, then confront. I will leave for several days and stay at one of my friend's place. Whichever one has the higher proof liquor.
> 
> My stepdaughter's suggestion is better but way too brutal. Something about those daddy's girls.


Here you go required reading. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. If it was me I wouldn't confront her I would ghost her for a least a week. Like I said in my last post. Get everything together expose, expose, expose and blow up her world and disappear before she can even respond. Let her sit in the mess of her own making for a good long week. The next time you meet her meet and talk to her in MC and discuss divorce that's it, if she tries more leave. Then ghost her emotionally for the rest of your life. Just do business after that point. 

It is a nice consequence but it also might get her head out of her ass. She should have just divorced you, besides that this dude is a married man so great example she shows her kids. You will actually be doing her a favor. 

If you can, move out of the house. First you should talk to a lawyer. 

Make sure your daughter doesn't say anything though. I suggest you do it fast because you are not dependent on just you keeping the secret. Read those posts most of the ones that went the best are the ones who took total control of the situation with precision. 

Hang in there man you will get better. Sorry you have to go through this.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Marc878 said:


> Read up and fully apply a hard 180 no contact. Staying in this won't get you a thing. I wouldn't let her know what I had or knew. Your exposure will do that for you. Let her live in limbo like you have.
> 
> You got everything you need. Make the hard decision and go with it.


Already 180d her hard. Been so for months. I am cool, firm, dispassionate. She is in the spin cycle.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

There are people in thus world you just need to cut out of your life.

Just because you have kids together doesn't mean you can't. Text or email kids only. It works and will get you where you need to be.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Marc878 said:


> Man that is one great kid. Drop the step. She's your daughter through and through.


IRL she is my daughter. I intro her as such. She told me when all this started 'have an extra room, I'll be over a lot to look after you' Guess I already have an interior decorator LOL 

She lives alone, no children, goes to college. Saves money. I taught her well.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MThomas said:


> Allow me to re-phrase, she will be exposed. There will NOT be any "begging me back." Not no but hell no. As my friend would say, IDGAF.
> 
> Even IF this did not go down, I was prepared to walk over her treatment of the kids. Oh and me too.
> 
> Edit-All screenshot by my SD.


Not to toot are own horn or nothing but just imagine without your friend you would still be posting on marriagebusters and trying to love her back or some other nonsense.

After you read these boards for a while this stuff is so typical it's as normal as sleeping. Most people sleep at night, most cheaters follow a script.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MThomas said:


> IRL she is my daughter. I intro her as such. She told me when all this started 'have an extra room, I'll be over a lot to look after you' Guess I already have an interior decorator LOL
> 
> She lives alone, no children, goes to college. Saves money. I taught her well.


Maybe one day you should adopt her to pay her back, if her Dad is not in the picture. Just saying.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You have a sound plan.

If you are done, be done. IOW, make the 180 your J.O.B. Keep all evidence off site and in at least two places.

Stand back as she crashes and burns...shortly followed by her looking for the lifeline she always had...until now...you. Be prepared for it. 

Keep posting. There will be more drama...guaranteed.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I also think that attending any kind of MC is a pointless waste of time and money.
> 
> In MC the 'client' is the marriage and is who the MC works for.
> 
> ...


The first 8 are free through work. If she refuses to attend, I go for me. If she does not show, I may try SDs suggestion.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Dude I hate to be the guy but that is the reason they have planes. We have read enough stories on here to know that it's always possible. Think about it, how many guys are going to be expending all the effort without the possibility of sex. Also she doesn't have to go anywhere he can come to her. Then it's just a day off from work and a hotel room for her. You would never have to know. I know it sucks, it makes me sick writing it but just don't assume. If you are thinking of staying together at least broach the possibility of a lie detector test. See how she reacts. Also compare notes with his wife, did he go on any trips lately.
> 
> I'm sorry but cheaters lie, and sex is 50% of the reason they cheat. For guys it's like 75%. They usually don't do it for a texting buddy.


It would have been brought up in chat. I'm done regardless. I'm done solely on her treatment of the kids and me. My app't was already made to file.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MThomas said:


> It would have been brought up in chat. I'm done regardless. I'm done solely on her treatment of the kids and me. My app't was already made to file.


I'm glad. Don't take too high of a road.

I'm not to big on taking the high road. I like going a little ahead in the road and setting up conditions to help them crash and being on a different road by the time it happens.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Here you go required reading. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. If it was me I wouldn't confront her I would ghost her for a least a week. Like I said in my last post. Get everything together expose, expose, expose and blow up her world and disappear before she can even respond. Let her sit in the mess of her own making for a good long week. The next time you meet her meet and talk to her in MC and discuss divorce that's it, if she tries more leave. Then ghost her emotionally for the rest of your life. Just do business after that point.
> 
> It is a nice consequence but it also might get her head out of her ass. She should have just divorced you, besides that this dude is a married man so great example she shows her kids. You will actually be doing her a favor.
> 
> ...


Daughter suggested a get together with the family and WWs parents and siblings. Two birthdays are close. Nail her to the wall in front of everybody.

Thank you! I will be okay. I have prepared for this. Divorce was coming even without this.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

sokillme said:


> *Not to toot are own horn or nothing but just imagine without your friend you would still be posting on marriagebusters and trying to love her back or some other nonsense.*
> 
> After you read these boards for a while this stuff is so typical it's as normal as sleeping. Most people sleep at night, most cheaters follow a script.


Hell would freeze first. I was taught much better than that.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Not to toot are own horn or nothing but just imagine without your friend you would still be posting on *marriagebusters* and trying to love her back or some other nonsense.
> 
> After you read these boards for a while this stuff is so typical it's as normal as sleeping. Most people sleep at night, most cheaters follow a script.


You left out the part of being a willing cuckold hoping they'll come back.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You need to be talking with a good attorney before doing or saying anything. Since D is your goal you need to be sure you make the right moves and don't make the wrong moves.

Never reveal your source of information to her. She will want to know how much you know about her affair so she can spin things to the kids, neighbors, relatives, and YOU.

Keep all of your D prep stuff well secured. I discovered my W had been going through all my worksheets calculating out future earnings and present value of various assets. Don't underestimate your stbxw's ability to be underhanded in the D.

Get copies of all important documents. Specifically your W's social security card, passport, driver's license, birth certificate. Your marriage license/certificate if you can find it. Passports and birth certificates for all the minor children. Copies of at least 2 years financial records. Copies of tax returns for 5 years. Copies of your W's recent paychecks. Your passport, birth certificate, and social security card. Put all of these in a very safe location where she cannot get to them. Change the passwords on all of your individual accounts like 401k. Whatever she doesn't normally have a need to access, change the passwords. Get a new bank account and have your paycheck deposited into that. Then transfer money to the family account to pay the bills. Be ready to cancel all joint credit cards and open new cards in just your name upon her being served papers.

Safeguard any family heirlooms or other items of high sentimental value.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MThomas said:


> Daughter suggested a get together with the family and WWs parents and siblings. Two birthdays are close. Nail her to the wall in front of everybody.
> 
> Thank you! I will be okay. I have prepared for this. Divorce was coming even without this.


I say just expose methodically like an assassin or something, then ghost and ride on into the sunset like John Wayne.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

If I can possible re-iterate, I was scheduled to file for divorce before this EA was uncovered. I was already done. I guess now I am done done.

Putting a POSOM before her family, dealbreaker.
Spending more time chatting to him than her kids, god damn dealbreaker

Unless God takes me before the scheduled filing, it is written. It will be done. This marriage is DOA and has a DNR.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I say just expose methodically like an assassin or something, then ghost and ride on into the sunset like John Wayne.


 @smiles 
That is exactly my thoughts!


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Daughter suggested a get together with the family and WWs parents and siblings. Two birthdays are close. Nail her to the wall in front of everybody.
> 
> Thank you! I will be okay. I have prepared for this. Divorce was coming even without this.


Can your daughter keep it quiet till you expose? She is clearly upset and hurt by her mother's actions, can she hold it together and not blow up at her mom before the end of the month when you are planning on filing?


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Maybe one day you should adopt her to pay her back, if her Dad is not in the picture. Just saying.


She is in her 20s. Bit hard LOL WW made sure she had my last name years ago. One of the great things she did!


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

honcho said:


> Can your daughter keep it quiet till you expose? She is clearly upset and hurt by her mother's actions, can she hold it together and not blow up at her mom before the end of the month when you are planning on filing?


She will not, at my request. She wanted to but understood why she must wait.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Update
WW is majorly PO'd she lost her ?clutch? purse in the trunk. When they communicate, it's blown I am guessing.

50k, observe, stand still. I have patience


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

@MThomas
Outstanding example of search, decision, action. Seems weird to be congratulating you. You keep us informed...


This newbie likes seeing how TAM thinks, knows, supports.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Silence is golden. You've got good evidence that's undisputable so all you have to do is get it to the other spouse. Other man will be on the lookout to intercept. For a nominal fee you could have it hand delivered to her.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MThomas said:


> Update
> WW is majorly PO'd she lost her ?clutch? purse in the trunk. When they communicate, it's blown I am guessing.
> 
> 50k, observe, stand still. I have patience



So you and D kept it?

Why you so mean? >


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Quick!!!! Stock up on popcorn and soda for you and D. Sit back and watch the comedy show.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Marc878 said:


> Silence is golden. You've got good evidence that's undisputable so all you have to do is get it to the other spouse. Other man will be on the lookout to intercept. For a nominal fee you could have it hand delivered to her.


I have her work #. We will be chatting soon. She will be emailed all the 'love-chatter' She will have my work # and daughter's #. The kids know something is up. THAT pisses me off they have to live through this.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Vent-I would pay for her a plane ticket up there to be with him if she signed the papers, relinquished all rights, promised to stay up in the Windy City.

Well maybe it's not a vent.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MThomas said:


> I have her work #. We will be chatting soon. She will be emailed all the 'love-chatter' She will have my work # and daughter's #.
> 
> BOOM !!!!!
> 
> I The kids know something is up. THAT pisses me off they have to live through this.


Look man from your posts it'll probably be a relief for them to finally know what's up.They are in the dark like you were wondering what's happening. It'll probably relive some of the pressure from living in the unknown.

Plus you're a good father. You and they will get through this.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

What do you mean by this: "Update
WW is majorly PO'd she lost her ?clutch? purse in the trunk. When they communicate, it's blown I am guessing.

50k, observe, stand still. I have patience
"

?? what would be blown? Will she see that your SD called her POSOM??


Also, your SD's plan about confronting in front of all of your family is pretty good -- prevents her from trying to re-write the marriage history with everyone, since they will see the proof and know that she was cheating.

VERY sorry that you are going through this, especially on top of all the crap she was dealing to you and the kids.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MThomas said:


> Vent-I would pay for her a plane ticket up there to be with him if she signed the papers, relinquished all rights, promised to stay up in the Windy City.
> 
> Well maybe it's not a vent.


Sorry man but when his wife finds out their fantasy will likely fade like a fart in the wind.

Other man will dump her quick after blaming it all on her.

It would be nice though to have her lack up and leave.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

jlg07;19623931[B said:


> _]What do you mean by this: "Update
> WW is majorly PO'd she lost her ?clutch? purse in the trunk. When they communicate, it's blown I am guessing.
> 
> 50k, observe, stand still. I have patience_[/B]
> ...


The missed calls, they will be aware something is up. Hence the why did you hang up on me the other day @ or why didn't you leave a message when you got my VM? Cheaters are dumb asses but not that dumb.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Vent-I would pay for her a plane ticket up there to be with him if she signed the papers, relinquished all rights, promised to stay up in the Windy City.
> 
> Well maybe it's not a vent.


Just give her a plane ticket ASAP along with luggage and hand her back the burner. Tell her the OMs wife is waiting at the airport for her. At the same time email close family and friends a packet on why you are ending your marriage including a simple statement on her behavior changes along with enough message snapshot pics to make your point clear. 

Then sit your children down by yourself and tell them Mom thinks the grass is greener anywhere else but with you and you are helping her have her wish, that no one should stay in a relationship where they are mocked, hated, humiliated and just plain not loved anymore.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

OP, how far back do there FB messages go?


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

The FB messages went back around 5 months.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> The FB messages went back around 5 months.


I assume that is when her behavior changes started. 

How long do you think you can hold out with her scrambling for the phone and you knowing what you know? ? Isn't you wife going to ask your step daughter straight up about the bag in the truck as she had the car today?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

There'll be some tight sphincter muscles tonight.

Poor muffin and OM will prolly be constipated by morning.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

OP, does your wife have a smart phone? Does she keep it locked?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MThomas said:


> The first 8 are free through work. If she refuses to attend, I go for me. If she does not show, I may try SDs suggestion.


Perhaps we may be quibbling over semantics. If you get some free counseling sessions through work, it would be fine to go to your own individual counseling to work out what would be best for you as an individual. 

my point was that marital counseling at this point would be a waste of time and money. 

That would be time and money better spent on a lawyer and working out a divorce plan and protecting your assets and access to your children.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I assume that is when her behavior changes started.
> 
> How long do you think you can hold out with her scrambling for the phone and you knowing what you know? ? Isn't you wife going to ask your step daughter straight up about the bag in the truck as she had the car today?


She was an ass before then, then it just intensified.

We will say a friend found it.

I don't know. Wait n see


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> OP, does your wife have a smart phone? Does she keep it locked?


She does but so do the kids. They're all tied in to monitor the kids. Hence burner.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MThomas said:


> She is in her 20s. Bit hard LOL WW made sure she had my last name years ago. One of the great things she did!


I think it's just a form you fill out. It would give you and her more rights I think.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I think it's just a form you fill out. It would give you and her more rights I think.


She IS in college.
She IS under 25
She IS under my ins.
Damn! Thank you SKM


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> She does but so do the kids. They're all tied in to monitor the kids. Hence burner.


I ask in that FB may not have been the only chat tool she was using. Since you have one password word you may find more info on other apps. Not that you need more evidence but just to stay ahead of her when the denials start. Never know what other nonsense you might find. come. 

We understand all of this is a lot to process all at once. Very stressful. I imagine your head is spinning. Stay strong and clear. Perhaps take time off from work and do what you need to do and get some real rest.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Formal adoption gives step daughter legal rights in surrogate court. Not to be morbid but that is one example I can think you. Also should OP suddenly become incapacitated and medical decisions need to be made for him her legal right to sit at the table is strengthened, especially since the other children are minors. Something to think about since wife is might no longer going to be next of kin.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I ask in that FB may not have been the only chat tool she was using. Since you have one password word you may find more info on other apps. Not that you need more evidence but just to stay ahead of her when the denials start. Never know what other nonsense you might find. come.
> 
> We understand all of this is a lot to process all at once. Very stressful. I imagine your head is spinning. Stay strong and clear. Perhaps take time off from work and do what you need to do and get some real rest.


Daughter is already on that. I gave copies of everything to a couple of friends too. They said that may be their only way of contact since the chatter went so fluid, no deviations.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Formal adoption gives step daughter legal rights in surrogate court. Not to be morbid but that is one example I can think you. Also should OP suddenly become incapacitated and medical decisions need to be made for him her legal right to sit at the table is strengthened, especially since the other children are minors. Something to think about since wife is might no longer going to be next of kin.


Yes, but this can be accomplished with a formal medical power of attorney. I'd written a post earlier on this but cancelled it thinking it was premature to get into all the estate and medical stuff.

In my state, step children are not children as far as inheritance. If your will says split everything between the children, a step child is left out. They have to be specifically named. So do step-grandchildren etc.

OP, have a trust created by a good attorney. Also update your will at the same time to be a "pour-over will" which is a safety net to send everything into the living trust when you die. This is a very important detail!! Update your medical directives and various powers of attorney. Update beneficiaries on your life insurance and retirement accounts. Some you can change now, depending on how the laws are there. Here it requires the spouse's signature to take them off of retirement accounts as beneficiary. My kids were all older than 18 when I divorced so I timed it to sign all the documents the day after the divorce was finalized. I made my daughter, then 24, grand poobah on everything because she is very competent. You don't have to adopt your SD to make her Trustee.

A trust allows you to set the conditions of your children getting access to their inheritance. Mine requires they be 25, have completed college, and are self supporting plus supporting any children they may have. The Trustee can release funds to pay for some limited expenses related to college prior to that (but restricted so that they don't decide to party at college until age 25!). A trust is far superior to a regular will even if your assets are middle class. You can get the will, trust, and medical directives done for about $1k perhaps, though I spent about $2500. Don't use an online form! Go to a real attorney where you live who specializes in estates and trusts.

At some point you should put together a comprehensive "If I Die" packet for your SD. Personally I would not trust the younger ones with such a package. Put every bit of information in there. All your details like birth place, birth date, social security number, all your bank accounts, investment accounts, life insurance, retirement accounts. Passwords and userids for everything. Answers to the security questions like your best friend's first name from high school or the brand of your first car. Put a copy of your house key and any security codes to enter your house into the package. Your daughter will need the information when you die, but it gives her everything to hack your life, too, which is why I would not give it to the younger kids. They may well lose track of it and then who knows what kind of havoc would result. Put a second package of this information in a very safe place such as bank safe box or a fireproof safe in your house.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Damn, just re-catching up with this story. I was up to date pre-burner phone discovery. Seems like there are very few just divorces anymore. I know the number are skewed because of how much I am on here but seems like every story similar to ours ends up being because of a 'crowded' marriage. 

Sorry to hear about everything and the stuff you are going through but glad you are finding the resolve, even if only temporary to get through all of this.

I think it's already been said but for the marriage counseling. That was a super silver lining for me. EW dropped out of MC after 3 visits but MC was a great therapist in general so I kept going and have been doing so for about 9 months now. Would be nowhere near close to where I'm at if I hadn't had counselor help me decode what was really going on and decoding what my EW meant, when she said and did things. Helped me in so many ways.

I highly recommend seeing a counselor on your own!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> And this has what to do with my question?
> 
> I'm failing to see how it isn't valid.
> 
> ...


Just reading through this sad thread and saw this.

I don't get it. Women actually think (or at least some women) that cheating is a way to "deal with" problems with their spouse?
I thought they just met some guy during everyday life, he developed a relationship with her, and then she started a new thing with him and just had so little regard for her husband for whatever reason, or wanted the strange so badly, that she cheated and basically forgot him. Totally fell out of love with him.

So I'm wrong? Women actually LOOK for affair partners (not counting total trash who do that kind of thing, I'm thinking of normal people) the first time, in an effort to "deal" with their bad husband?

If so, my whole mindset is wrong, and I am an asshat.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP,
I hope you divorce this cheater you're married to, get a favorable divorce, and move on. What she has done is despicable. What you read is deplorable. Everything about your wife is just a textbook case of a person of low character, no integrity, no loyalty, and I think a complete and total user.

This is another case that proves that an "emotional affair" is just as deadly to a relationship (I think more deadly) than a physical one. 

And also further evidence that once a woman gives her emotions to another man, they never return for the previous partner. It's done.

At least you have the satisfaction of knowing that even your wife's own daughter knows she is doing wrong, and knows you and her relationship and feels that you are in the right. That will burn her forever.

So sorry.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

She knows something is up but does not know what. I am going to assume they made contact while she was at work. I do know she has an inside PO box at the post office. Thanks son! She has had it at least since the holidays, per son.

I am short with her but courteous. Similar to a co-worker. It's not fun. Yes I would love to forget everything and go back to our days of glory but that WON'T happen. Forget about the broken trust with the EA for a minute. The yelling and screaming at the kids over HER bad day, or the fact she missed OMs call, or she does not get what she wants, I have zero sympathy.

Thankfully she has turned into such a **** I can easily decipher the pre-her to the present-her. Easiest decision to make. Still hurts. But still hurts knowing and seeing what I have. Sad ending which could have been avoided.

OMW was contacted. We will talk this afternoon. Exposing her to family has been moved up.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

From experience, I can tell you this: Deal the first blow in exposure. It's not going to matter to her family. They are going to listen to her narrative (you were a bad husband and drove her to find comfort in talking to a male "friend", that's all it was-- barf) and want to believe her.... But you will have your chance to have your say unpolluted by her garbage. 

Second: it will NOT be horrific pain forever. Yes, it will likely hurt the rest of your life--but not bad and not every day. And most times you will be indifferent to it all in a few years. When you meet a good person and move on, you will most definitely get to the point she will just be a very faint memory. But she will NEVER be able to forget what a horrid, deceitful, lying wretch she is. And it will likely eat at her always, unless she is a sociopath. 

Last of all: Don't think there was something you could have done to prevent this. I've seen this same crap happen to guys that are doing all the laundry, taking their wives on fun trips and spending time with them, cleaning the house, doing all the parenting and taxiing of the kids..... If it's in someone to look for someone new like that, they're just eventually going to do it. They are what I refer to as Chronic Discontents. They will always be that way, whomever they're with most likely.

You are doing well. I wallowed in self pity for a couple of months, I stayed in grief for about 6 months, and then just said **** it and went ahead as best as I could. The shocking thing was that there were a lot of young, beautiful women out there that were looking for a guy. I found myself a keeper and I'm happy. You will as well. My new wife is a LOT better person inside and out than my first wife. I actually feel sorry for the ex's new husband, who is sure to wind up miserable.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> From experience, I can tell you this: Deal the first blow in exposure. It's not going to matter to her family. They are going to listen to her narrative (you were a bad husband and drove her to find comfort in talking to a male "friend", that's all it was-- barf) and want to believe her.... But you will have your chance to have your say unpolluted by her garbage.
> 
> *Wait until her parents read their messages. "Not OUR daughter" Yes, YOUR daughter sweethearts. Her mom will vilify her. That's why they're not close. *
> 
> ...



I read your thread. She was a piece of work to say the least. I have two great kids, a great stepdaughter. SD is early20s, maybe she has cute friends LOL j/k. WW cooked pancakes this morning. I drew a nasty picture on a couple with my toothpick. I heard WTF. I looked, smiled, left the room. 

One of my friends suggested how to expose her to the family. I really like it. SD loves it. Gave her goose bumps. Exposure was sped up because I can not trust OMW to keep it hush hush. A perfect scenario is for her to bust him right when I bust her. With no burner phone, what they gonna do? Find a pay phone?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

OP, your trump cards are the FB messages. They talk between now and then? So what! The messages say it all. Let her spill her take of woe being married to you with all her denials of inappropriate behavior. When you release the messages she will not only have cheated on her husband - emotionally at least and showed her true feelings about you with her stream of insults and plain nastiness and ugliness but will now have to deal with lying to all her family too. 

Simultaneous expose would be perfect. Like I said - speakerphone with you, wife, om and oms on with every adult family member listening. Skype it with a camera.

Have a close family friend keep up with her when she runs out of the room crying, thrashing, screaming and calling you Satan for ruining her life. As long as she does not hurt herself in a final attempt at being the victim. 

So what she flips out. Remind her the sunlight is a great disinfectant. Let the sun shine on her dirty sordid little secrets that are the cause of her nasty behavior to you and the children. They are owed an explanation, if not direct due to age indirect. Now she will not have to hide her true feelings anymore and she can have her wish.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> OP, your trump cards are the FB messages. They talk between now and then? So what! The messages say it all. Let her spill her take of woe being married to you with all her denials of inappropriate behavior. When you release the messages she will not only have cheated on her husband - emotionally at least and showed her true feelings about you with her stream of insults and plain nastiness and ugliness but will now have to deal with lying to all her family too.
> 
> Simultaneous expose would be perfect. Like I said - speakerphone with you, wife, om and oms on with every adult family member listening. Skype it with a camera.
> 
> ...


My friend's plan is better. I'm 98% convinced to use it. Depending upon my chat with OMW. If she can honestly say she will unleash hell upon him tonight, tonight would be the perfect option. I feel like I'm in college again, squaring up the pretty boy QB and taking him down.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In a case where the cheater is mistreating the entire family and downing the betrayed husband to the OM (which is likely almost EVERY case), and since the cheater is f'ing up lives due to their childish little affair, I think a little EPIC exposure and shame laid down is ONLY FAIR. If you have a good plan, I'd go with it.

You're being forced to associate horrible memories of a cheater with the good memories of the years you had that were good. You've basically been robbed of your good memories because she's spoiled them, along with forcing you to basically start your life over.
Having a memory of how she was exposed quite disdainfully in her shame would be only fair. I'd do it.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

After speaking to the OMW, exposure was postponed for a couple days. She wanted to do some snooping of her own. Nice to know POSOM has nude pics of her. One was with their fav candy back in the day, laying in her hootch with inscription 'come and get it' Since WW doesn't know I know her password they're still at it. Since I do not see any odd withdrawals, my guess is her PO box is where she either gets a credit card or debit card statements sent to. OMW is tracking him to see if/where his PO box is. She requested a coordinated exposure once she learned what I knew. My day to file is next week and MC today. I still plan to go, mainly to just get stuff off my chest.

WW thinks she lost the phone. They did bring up maybe someone found out. That was dismissed when they couldn't stay away from puppy love talking. OMW did mention a revenge affair but was in no way serious. She said they had problems the last 4-5 years. Said it would get better but not for a long period, then go back to way it was. I told her that sounded very familiar.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MThomas said:


> After speaking to the OMW, exposure was postponed for a couple days. She wanted to do some snooping of her own. Nice to know POSOM has nude pics of her. One was with their fav candy back in the day, laying in her hootch with inscription 'come and get it' Since WW doesn't know I know her password they're still at it. Since I do not see any odd withdrawals, my guess is her PO box is where she either gets a credit card or debit card statements sent to. OMW is tracking him to see if/where his PO box is. She requested a coordinated exposure once she learned what I knew. My day to file is next week and MC today. I still plan to go, mainly to just get stuff off my chest.
> 
> WW thinks she lost the phone. They did bring up maybe someone found out. That was dismissed when they couldn't stay away from puppy love talking. OMW did mention a revenge affair but was in no way serious. She said they had problems the last 4-5 years. Said it would get better but not for a long period, then go back to way it was. I told her that sounded very familiar.


Real interested to see how this plays out. When I exposed to OMW with pics, texts, emails, etc in December, my (now) EW was destroyed but because she didn't think she would be with her soulmate anymore as he went dark on her right after and pledged his love for his wife and she welcomed him back with open arms. I found texts to a mutual friend between EW and OMW that she was so distraught on Christmas, she couldn't even make the Xmas dinner she had planned because the food reminded her of him. 

Within a few weeks of things cooling down, they found new methods of communicating and OM knew his wife was under his thumb again and would rugsweep and the affair got deeper and more intense. It was blown up again in early March but by this time it had even less of an effect on our side as EW chose the path of divorce (she had been planning her exit from what I could tell as soon as late July, so she could be with him for good). OMW got a bit more pissed this time and threatened to leave him but she welcomed him back again after he was after to charm her over again. The odd thing was this time my EW wasn't really distraught. That let me know she knew that they had planned for another exposure and that as soon as things cooled down again, it was good to go. I stopped investigating and snooping at that point, there was really no point but none of her behaviors from when the affair started changed, so I can pretty much tell just from that the lovebirds were probably still together through the end of our divorce process. 

I did reach out to OMW after the divorce was Final 2 weeks ago and just let her know as a courtesy it was officially over. She actually said some nice things about wishing it wouldn't have turned out like this for me and that I would find someone that would return the love in full as much as I gave this. She did end the note however saying she doesn't think about why or how he cheated and continued to cheat but she thinks they are 'good' now and that every day is a win for them. I struggled with the idea of telling her my gut feelings (but didn't) over the past few months that EW and I lived together but I had exposed multiple times, I hung up my PI hat for good and just let it be.

I curious to see how this shakes out on your side because I see your wife being similar to my EW, in that she would pick the AP but I wonder what's going to happen on the other side. Sounds like the OMW is not playing this f'n game. So it will be interesting to see if OM, once busted, goes all in with his wife, then kicks your W to the curb but I don't know. What I do know is the sooner those low lifes are together and have to experience the Real World together and all of the responsibilities that go with it, then it won't be quite as fun. Amongst many other reasons but a big one in my situation, is that is how I think my EW never even was tempted to come out of the Fog as since OM is not leaving wife, even though he was leading on to a life with my EW, they continue to live the morning-early evening fantasyland scenario which includes none of the hardships of life and all of the fun stuff.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> Real interested to see how this plays out. When I exposed to OMW with pics, texts, emails, etc in December, my (now) EW was destroyed but because she didn't think she would be with her soulmate anymore as he went dark on her right after and pledged his love for his wife and she welcomed him back with open arms. I found texts to a mutual friend between EW and OMW that she was so distraught on Christmas, she couldn't even make the Xmas dinner she had planned because the food reminded her of him.
> 
> Within a few weeks of things cooling down, they found new methods of communicating and OM knew his wife was under his thumb again and would rugsweep and the affair got deeper and more intense. It was blown up again in early March but by this time it had even less of an effect on our side as EW chose the path of divorce (she had been planning her exit from what I could tell as soon as late July, so she could be with him for good). OMW got a bit more pissed this time and threatened to leave him but she welcomed him back again after he was after to charm her over again. The odd thing was this time my EW wasn't really distraught. That let me know she knew that they had planned for another exposure and that as soon as things cooled down again, it was good to go. I stopped investigating and snooping at that point, there was really no point but none of her behaviors from when the affair started changed, so I can pretty much tell just from that the lovebirds were probably still together through the end of our divorce process.
> 
> ...


Wise not to tell her your gut and let it be. She will find out someday. Or maybe your EW can settle for being Plan B. Telling the kids is gonna be tough. They already know something is up and have for awhile. By the actions I have chosen I am teaching my son to have boundaries with everyone and to not accept being mistreated. If I rugswept everything I would be in a very bad place right now. And SD may not have even paid any attention to the phone. What would that teach my son? Or my two daughters? Seek out a man who sticks his head in the sand? I couldn't live with myself.

I read your threads. Nothing personal but I would not allow what you did. But you learned and grew. Here you are away from the slug. If I had to guess, WW will go into a state of shock. Followed by the water works and lets save our marriage. All that would be is to stall things so they have enough time to regroup and crunch ideas. At first I was worried about her finding my posts here. She does know I was on here. I use an old computer that is not connected with the others. If I use my phone, she would have access to it. Given the fact I don't use my phone much at all, it would be easy to find. 

WW has no clue what I know. I hope OMW can do a good poker face. Poker face if what my friends told me. One sent a video of Cartman singing poker face. Well you can laugh or cry. Can't help but think of all the good times we had. Of course the bad times come right behind. I did tell dad about everything. He knew things were not good and supports me in whatever I chose. I have yet to tell mom. Knowing mom she would drive right over and cuss her out. I'm sure there is a time and place for that, just not right now.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> After speaking to the OMW, exposure was postponed for a couple days. She wanted to do some snooping of her own. Nice to know POSOM has nude pics of her. One was with their fav candy back in the day, laying in her hootch with inscription 'come and get it' Since WW doesn't know I know her password they're still at it. Since I do not see any odd withdrawals, my guess is her PO box is where she either gets a credit card or debit card statements sent to. OMW is tracking him to see if/where his PO box is. She requested a coordinated exposure once she learned what I knew. My day to file is next week and MC today. I still plan to go, mainly to just get stuff off my chest.
> 
> WW thinks she lost the phone. They did bring up maybe someone found out. That was dismissed when they couldn't stay away from puppy love talking. OMW did mention a revenge affair but was in no way serious. She said they had problems the last 4-5 years. Said it would get better but not for a long period, then go back to way it was. I told her that sounded very familiar.


Run a credit check in your wife's name online.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

MThomas said:


> She requested a coordinated exposure once she learned what I knew.


The ol' pincer strategy….worked great on the Eastern Front for a couple of years!

Good luck!


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Wise not to tell her your gut and let it be. She will find out someday. Or maybe your EW can settle for being Plan B. Telling the kids is gonna be tough. They already know something is up and have for awhile. By the actions I have chosen I am teaching my son to have boundaries with everyone and to not accept being mistreated. If I rugswept everything I would be in a very bad place right now. And SD may not have even paid any attention to the phone. What would that teach my son? Or my two daughters? Seek out a man who sticks his head in the sand? I couldn't live with myself.
> 
> I read your threads. Nothing personal but I would not allow what you did. But you learned and grew. Here you are away from the slug. If I had to guess, WW will go into a state of shock. Followed by the water works and lets save our marriage. All that would be is to stall things so they have enough time to regroup and crunch ideas. At first I was worried about her finding my posts here. She does know I was on here. I use an old computer that is not connected with the others. If I use my phone, she would have access to it. Given the fact I don't use my phone much at all, it would be easy to find.
> 
> WW has no clue what I know. I hope OMW can do a good poker face. Poker face if what my friends told me. One sent a video of Cartman singing poker face. Well you can laugh or cry. Can't help but think of all the good times we had. Of course the bad times come right behind. I did tell dad about everything. He knew things were not good and supports me in whatever I chose. I have yet to tell mom. Knowing mom she would drive right over and cuss her out. I'm sure there is a time and place for that, just not right now.


You can ask the MODS to move this to the private section. Harder for her to find this thread.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> The ol' pincer strategy….worked great on the Eastern Front for a couple of years!
> 
> Good luck!


Me loves me some WW2 talk! The double exposure has very short window. Germany had a clear advantage up until the spring of '42. They were stretched too far. North Africa, the winter in Russia, losing the Mediterranean. I post on an alt-history forum. One question which gets a lot of attention is What if Germany and Russia remained close? The war would have turned out very different. OMW has until the weekend.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

MThomas said:


> Me loves me some WW2 talk! The double exposure has very short window. Germany had a clear advantage up until the spring of '42. They were stretched too far. North Africa, the winter in Russia, losing the Mediterranean. I post on an alt-history forum. One question which gets a lot of attention is What if Germany and Russia remained close? The war would have turned out very different. OMW has until the weekend.


And don't forget Germany's supposed ally Japan easing tensions in eastern Russia, thus allowing Stalin to redeploy millions of troops to the Eastern Front in '42. 

Economically speaking, Russian natural resources and German technology and manufacturing coupled in a mutually beneficial trade deal would have been epic. And still could be. Alas, ideology ruined it then and ruins it now.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> And don't forget Germany's supposed ally Japan easing tensions in eastern Russia, thus allowing Stalin to redeploy millions of troops to the Eastern Front in '42.
> 
> Economically speaking, Russian natural resources and German technology and manufacturing coupled in a mutually beneficial trade deal would have been epic. And still could be. Alas, ideology ruined it then and ruins it now.


Thank you for the war analogy. Actually gets my mind off of my impending sh#tstorm. Japan was stretched too far in SE Asia. There was no way they would have taken India. TBH they never fully had China either. Following their zeniths, the Allies closed the ring. Russia was knocking on Japan's door in '45. Had the US ground attacked, I could have easily seen skirmishes with Russia. But Germany repeated the mistake France did a century earlier, you can not invade Russia unless you have control by winter. The Russian peasants were tough. Had to be after being treated so inhumane. Of all the czars, Nicholas II had the pedigree to bring balance. He never even came close.

Had the war dragged on, do you think Spain would have entered on the Axis side?


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

MThomas said:


> Had the war dragged on, do you think Spain would have entered on the Axis side?


No. The most Spain could or did do, was send the ''Blue Division''. Franco, in this regard, was intelligent. Not getting officially involved in the war kept him in power for many years after the war. It should be noted that most of the soldiers were volunteers, and they were highly regarded by Hitler for their bravery in battle.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> No. The most Spain could or did do, was send the ''Blue Division''. Franco, in this regard, was intelligent. Not getting officially involved in the war kept him in power for many years after the war. It should be noted that most of the soldiers were volunteers, and they were highly regarded by Hitler for their bravery in battle.


Would love to drink a beer or seventeen with you! Some say we knew they were coming at Pearl Harbor. I just can't buy it. Too many lives at risk. Contrary to many beliefs, England advanced radar, not the US. 

OMW discovered OM also has PO box. Makes sense now.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

MThomas said:


> Would love to drink a beer or seventeen with you! Some say we knew they were coming at Pearl Harbor. I just can't buy it. Too many lives at risk. Contrary to many beliefs, England advanced radar, not the US.


Lol, yup, love military history, particularly WW2.



MThomas said:


> OMW discovered OM also has PO box. Makes sense now.


If only Germany had as many allies as you have in this situation with your wife.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MThomas said:


> Would love to drink a beer or seventeen with you! *Some say we knew they were coming at Pearl Harbor. I just can't buy it.* Too many lives at risk. Contrary to many beliefs, England advanced radar, not the US.
> 
> OMW discovered OM also has PO box. Makes sense now.


I don't either. All Pearl Harbor did was temporarily put some obsolete battleships out of commission for awhile. It fully awakened the US and spelled the end for Germany and Japan. It was only a matter of time after that. :nerd:


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Reality will hit your STBXW hard. You never know how they'll react.

It's in your best interest to double down on the 180. Your kids are older so there'll be no need for much contact. Turn a blind and and deaf ear towards her.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> I don't either. All Pearl Harbor did was temporarily put some obsolete battleships out of commission for awhile. It fully awakened the US and spelled the end for Germany and Japan. It was only a matter of time after that. :nerd:


Just glad our carriers were out at sea.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

ReturntoZero said:


> Just glad our carriers were out at sea.


Convenient huh

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

When are you going to confront?

Will it happen when she is served?

Stay strong and good luck


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Decorum said:


> *UFB, she regrets and insults her own children, and goes on to treat them like crap because they are not Mr. Couldhavebeen's.
> 
> We see it all here, but often the Betrayed Husband will comment that his Wayward Wife is still a good mother. I think your STBXW is the rare exception for not being exceptional.
> 
> I am afraid I am going to have to remove her name from nomination for TAM's Mother of the year Award!!*


LMAO! She will have to answer to the kids. That is her burden to bare. One will be a freshman, other a junior. They will have questions. Oldest daughter is devastated. She has kept quiet about everything, I wasn't sure if she could have done that. She never ceases to amaze me. So glad I raised her well. In the back of my mind, I think she may have talked to the younger two. I will talk with each of them right after exposure.

If they wish to come stay with me, that is their choice. But she is still their mother. I saw WW at her best and by shot she was awesome. But I have also seen her at her worst. So have the kids. If WW does anything, it's make it right with them. I don't want it to be 10 years down the road and one is getting married and she shows up and she is shunned. The EA fallout is between her and I.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Nice job on taking your time and doing this right.

Most couldn't


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Went to my MC Friday. Explained why I had already decided to D. MC asked why and we went into detail about WW. She focused a lot on her childhood and strife with parents and siblings. "Did you offer assistance with child rearing and were you there when she was down" The tone she used was she expected me to say oh hell no, I left it all on her. For some reason when a M goes under, it's the guy's fault. I explained how I did my part with the kids and things around the house. And the fact she was not ignored nor neglected. Then I get this look of "then why has she done these things" I ended the MC by telling her I would giver WW her #.

Exposure took place yesterday evening. Her parents were in attendance, as were her siblings. My parents were there, SD, the 2 kids but they were gone when it happened. In sync, SD and OMW Skyped and let the 2 view each other. I then informed them they were busted. Their correspondences were placed on a powerpoint. Each guest was given a copy. The master copy with everything was emailed to everyone in attendance. Everyone was stunned at first. WW cried, then berated me for embarrassing her. Then she wanted to talk. I told her I have nothing to say and am filing for D. I asked FiL and dad to keep her away from me while I pack. I spoke to each child before I left and will meet both of them today. 

I know I left a lot out. I'm at a friend's house getting hammered quite well. I'm sad the exposure is over and glad at the same time. The kids all called and checked on me. SD came by, gave a hug saying you will get through this. She said mom is mad at her. My guess is they may have had it out but she did not say anything if they did. All she said was when mom chastised her, she told her to kiss her ass.

I'm numb, hurt, disappointed, relieved, and a few other things. My host said I was in momentary lapses of reason. That I will learn to fly again. Weird but he is a weird character in his own right. Roller coaster, hit re-set. I now go back to 19 while everything else stays where it is. Approaching 40 and a broken family. Gee, how F'ing wonderful


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MThomas said:


> Went to my MC Friday. Explained why I had already decided to D. MC asked why and we went into detail about WW. She focused a lot on her childhood and strife with parents and siblings. "Did you offer assistance with child rearing and were you there when she was down" The tone she used was she expected me to say oh hell no, I left it all on her. For some reason when a M goes under, it's the guy's fault. I explained how I did my part with the kids and things around the house. And the fact she was not ignored nor neglected. Then I get this look of "then why has she done these things" I ended the MC by telling her I would giver WW her #.
> 
> Exposure took place yesterday evening. Her parents were in attendance, as were her siblings. My parents were there, SD, the 2 kids but they were gone when it happened. In sync, SD and OMW Skyped and let the 2 view each other. I then informed them they were busted. Their correspondences were placed on a powerpoint. Each guest was given a copy. The master copy with everything was emailed to everyone in attendance. Everyone was stunned at first. WW cried, then berated me for embarrassing her. Then she wanted to talk. I told her I have nothing to say and am filing for D. I asked FiL and dad to keep her away from me while I pack. I spoke to each child before I left and will meet both of them today.
> 
> ...


One of the things that got me through a certain time living with (now) EW, was what you had just gone through. The self PI work, the organizing the exposure, the talk with the priest, the serving of papers, etc. Doing all of that kept my mind off of the hurt and it kept me busy and felt like I was finally striking back at the heart of evil. Once it was all done, it was a load off of my shoulders but also a bummer because then reality again set it and the strike from every single angle felt like it was just napalm in the Vietnam jungles.. A lot of stuff got burned up but there was very little in terms of achievement. 

I went through another phase of all of that stuff from January and February where I discovered they had found new ways to meet, communicate, burner phone, etc. The 2nd strike was about as effective as the first and felt even more hallow when I went to the Friend of the court and could of gave a sh** less about all of the stuff she was doing, even when it came to questionable decisions about putting the kids 2nd and behind her own wants and needs. 

I'm glad you did what you did and you did it in the most effective way possible and really, in a lot of the same ways in terms of who you involved. I didn't involve my kids because they are still somewhat young (6 and 10 at the time) but I did involve the in-laws along the way to keep it above and beyond reproach. They had helped me along the path of trying to reconcile for months and I wanted them to know why I had gone the route of filing. Heck, most of them wanted me to file even before I had the concrete evidence I had gotten in December. The one thing that kind of sucks now is that the In-Laws who were my staunch allies through most of the process, once the divorce process started, became less neutral and more wanting to get back to the way things were with her, to some extent. I understand and I don't hold any ill will towards them. They helped me more than I could have ever asked for before the divorce process. I still consider them part of my family and always will.

I went through about 12 months of Hell, which included 5 months of failed reconciliation on my part, one month of going out on the attack (PI/Exposure) and 6 months of living together while the divorce process took place. Only 2 weeks out from the official divorce and things still sting quite a bit. From being the person I trusted most, trusted with everything and vice versa to becoming her biggest enemy and the awful treatment of me, not even just the cheating but the pure bs she put me through mentally with her words, carelessness and cold hearted bitterness. Hard to get over that much betrayal but I am. Last year it basically paralyzed me as I just didn't know which way was up. Now, the pain remains, not as bad but I my functionality is all there. My drive to get work done, projects done and kick a$$ at the gym. I have the same fire, energy and stamina now that I did 20 years ago.

Just recommend you go through the official divorce process as you did the exposure and filing process, with calculation and with purpose. The sooner and more amicable you get this done, the better you will feel for going about this on your terms and with dignity.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

First reaction: upset she was embarrassed. 

Not shame and sorrow for betraying her husband. Pretty much typical of a cheater.


I'm sure this is a lot to take in, a lot to process. You are surely miserable. However, you have moved forward with your own agenda and placed HER in the position that SHE now has to deal with the fallout of ruining her own marriage, dealing with the shame of her own family knowing just how low she is, and worrying about how she is going to make it without you as a source of security.

She at least is bound to value the sense of security that you provided. Now that is shaken, and she will be in repair mode.

She'll want to talk, alright. 

You have just set off the nuclear exposure bomb of all time. I wish I could have done so well. Things will be going your way for a while, anyway. She will be trying all kinds of tricks, subterfuge, misdirection, blameshifting, etc. in an all out effort to "fix it".

What she has done....... I don't see any possibility of a hope for a REAL marriage to her again, so I think you are wise to just file and get it over with. Try to get the best deal possible, and enjoy meeting new women who have the possibility of actually being loyal to you.

Sorry you're having to deal with this, but admiring how you are handling it. Most painful stuff a man can endure.
Good luck


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Pink Floyd quotes...that sounds about right for J.

You did the right thing. Let today's inebriation be the last for a while. You are going to need to be sober to do the things that are necessary over the upcoming weeks, up to and including resisting manipulation efforts from your WW.

Despite his corny Pink Floyd quotes, J is a good coach. I would definitely lean on him as this process continues.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

I’m sorry that you are hurting, (probably more from the hangover this morning). But you know you had to do it and that it was the right thing to do. 


Can you make an appointment with a counselor ASAP?

Hang in there and keep moving straight out of the Hell that she has put you into!

And as if you don’t already know, your daughter is VERY impressive person! You obviously did a great job raising her.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Oh yeah, forgot the counseling part, get a good counselor that doesn't have a one track mind and that specializes in family matters, to help you and you in situations with your kids.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You’ll do better now that’s behind you.

Her reaction tells you what you already know.

She’s not relationship material.

Hard 180. No talk, never answer her phone calls directly. Let them go to voice mail. Only respond by text or email if it’s kid or business related. Ignore everything else.

Your kids are older so you really don’t need much communication.

Civil but brief texts. You’ll move on quick 

Take care


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Went to my MC Friday. Explained why I had already decided to D. MC asked why and we went into detail about WW. She focused a lot on her childhood and strife with parents and siblings. "Did you offer assistance with child rearing and were you there when she was down" The tone she used was she expected me to say oh hell no, I left it all on her. For some reason when a M goes under, it's the guy's fault. I explained how I did my part with the kids and things around the house. And the fact she was not ignored nor neglected. Then I get this look of "then why has she done these things" I ended the MC by telling her I would giver WW her #.
> 
> Exposure took place yesterday evening. Her parents were in attendance, as were her siblings. My parents were there, SD, the 2 kids but they were gone when it happened. In sync, SD and OMW Skyped and let the 2 view each other. I then informed them they were busted. Their correspondences were placed on a powerpoint. Each guest was given a copy. The master copy with everything was emailed to everyone in attendance. Everyone was stunned at first. * WW cried, then berated me for embarrassing her.*_ Then she wanted to talk._ I told her I have nothing to say and am filing for D. I asked FiL and dad to keep her away from me while I pack. I spoke to each child before I left and will meet both of them today.
> 
> ...


Everything she had to say is in that PowerPoint presentation. She requests to talk again tell her to go talk to a therapist. Remind her you offered to go to MC with her and she refused - she had a chance to talk then. Now she should go see a therapist because its obvious to everyone she needs one. 

I am surprised you left the house and did not ask her to leave. 

Mad at the daughter - nice! . Note that one next time she cries on the phone asking why? why? why?. Remind her only a real low life would be mad at someone for not betraying their father.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

So.....I say SD and OP take a good vacay somewhere with tropical drinks and let WW stew in her own Sh*t for awhile.

The fact that she was sooo abusive is telling. I was reading that some spouses use the abuse as a way to limit their responsibilities on the true spouse. Also, it stated that they act like the spouse is a mirror for their behavior. She is projecting her feelings of disdain for herself onto you. Sucks but she is broken.


It will be interesting in the coming weeks what the inlaws have to say about that. By the way, the powerpoint presentation....Epic. Turning your pain into a flowchart and 6sigma event for the family is classic (it would make a good movie). I do hope you heal fast and find someone who respects and cherishes you.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

As nice as an adult holiday sounds the other children, the 2 teens should go too. She has been a crappy mom to them since this mess started with the OM. Short tempered, etc etc etc. 

Let Mom sit in a empty house so that reality sinks in. Maybe with some lonely self introspection she might haul herself to therapy. She needs it. Bad.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

I drew up what I thought would be a fair division of assets. No alimony should be given. I will present a zero child support plan. If it is non-contested, the 2 parties can set their own plan in place. Anything child based will be 50-50. Neither wants to sell the house, we spoke on this months ago. Plus this is where the kids grew up. That will be a sticking point. I have yet to say anything to her. I honestly don't care to even see her. I will be returning to the house in a couple days. She can move out or take the spare bedroom, my ass ain't.

The kids got ahold of the messages, no real shock. TBH I think not being there several days is a good thing. Daughter thinks mom is "cow tipping loony" and son just looks at her with disgust. OMW did find a pair of "used" panties hidden. They were not hers. Their kids are young so her road will be much harder. As @farsidejunky stated having friends who have went through this is a tremendous help. Reading these threads well in advance really shed light on how things typically go. Aside from a handful, most are completely scripted. I read quite a few R threads. Most went up in smoke. One I could relate to is 1800s, his was a successful R. "J" and "B" who each were on here at one time asked me, what is your lowest casualty count plan. My answer was a D. Even if WW went atop a mountain and ascended above humanity, a D will happen. It can be a very short and amicable one or we can hand all our money over to the ho's. I mean D lawyers.

I'm not going to sit here and claim I was a saint throughout our nearly 20 years together. But I never gave up, never looked elsewhere for my wants to be fulfilled, or never dismissed her thoughts. Like the one poster early on in my thread, claiming I refused to listen to her and sat on my ass and did nothing, that is light years from the truth. Had I done that and discovered her EA, I could relate to why she did what she did. Still doesn't make it right. If you are unhappy and at the end of your rope, get a damn D. Stop tree swinging. But had that happened, I would consider a R. But it didn't. Fool me once-shame on you, fool me twice-shame on me.

While I was talking to "B" he recalled his D. He asked her once what did she want. She replied I have no idea what I want. B said TBH that was the largest truth she told me. Maybe WW lost something along the way and doesn't know how to recover it. Maybe it is general happiness. She has to make herself happy, that is not in my job description. 

I went by my parents place. They both understand and agree. Mom said MiL called her. MiL was apologetic. Of course mom said to just wait, that'll change. I agree completely. But when some people don't get what they want, they throw a tantrum, act like a child. Then wonder why they get treated like a child.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> As nice as an adult holiday sounds the other children, the 2 teens should go too. She has been a crappy mom to them since this mess started with the OM. Short tempered, etc etc etc.
> 
> Let Mom sit in a empty house so that reality sinks in. Maybe with some lonely self introspection she might haul herself to therapy. She needs it. Bad.


She'll likely start up another EA


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Your mom is smart. Blood is thicker than water but no matter, you should distance yourself from her family so you can move on.

Being around that gets you nothing


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You are thinking clearly and taking action to move forward. You are in the driver's seat for your own life.

Your wife wanted the other dude. Now she is free. She should be happy.

But she won't be. I hope you can learn to be happy whatever happens. But most likely, you will be finding that women more attractive and a lot more fun than your wife will be eager to give you attention. You don't want that now, but you might in the future.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

MThomas said:


> I drew up what I thought would be a fair division of assets. No alimony should be given. I will present a zero child support plan. If it is non-contested, the 2 parties can set their own plan in place. Anything child based will be 50-50. Neither wants to sell the house, we spoke on this months ago. Plus this is where the kids grew up. That will be a sticking point. I have yet to say anything to her. I honestly don't care to even see her. I will be returning to the house in a couple days. She can move out or take the spare bedroom, my ass ain't.
> 
> The kids got ahold of the messages, no real shock. TBH I think not being there several days is a good thing. Daughter thinks mom is "cow tipping loony" and son just looks at her with disgust. OMW did find a pair of "used" panties hidden. They were not hers. Their kids are young so her road will be much harder. As @farsidejunky stated having friends who have went through this is a tremendous help. Reading these threads well in advance really shed light on how things typically go. Aside from a handful, most are completely scripted. I read quite a few R threads. Most went up in smoke. One I could relate to is 1800s, his was a successful R. "J" and "B" who each were on here at one time asked me, what is your lowest casualty count plan. My answer was a D. Even if WW went atop a mountain and ascended above humanity, a D will happen. It can be a very short and amicable one or we can hand all our money over to the ho's. I mean D lawyers.
> 
> ...


This is very wise.

Not to threadjack, but it fits perfectly into where I'm at.

Over 10 years married and still hearing the occasional, "I don't want anything to do with you ever..."

Always inconsistent. Never able to depend on any support.

Eventually, you just give up on it. THEN, you distance yourself. Pretty soon, you start to realize that the chronic pain you had in your ass is disappearing.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Kamstel said:


> I’m sorry that you are hurting, (probably more from the hangover this morning). But you know you had to do it and that it was the right thing to do.
> 
> 
> Can you make an appointment with a counselor ASAP?
> ...


Thank you for the positive comments about my SD/oldest daughter. She has been quite protective of me since all this started. I'm sure my younger daughter would too but she is almost 10 years younger and does not know as much of what happened. One would think in times of hardship, your damn wife would be covering your back, not stabbing it. But WW made the feces sandwich and I will make sure she eats it.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Everything she had to say is in that PowerPoint presentation. She requests to talk again tell her to go talk to a therapist. Remind her you offered to go to MC with her and she refused - she had a chance to talk then. Now she should go see a therapist because its obvious to everyone she needs one.
> 
> *I am surprised you left the house and did not ask her to leave.*
> 
> Mad at the daughter - nice! . Note that one next time she cries on the phone asking why? why? why?. Remind her only a real low life would be mad at someone for not betraying their father.


Had I stayed that night after everyone left, could you imagine the water works? Think I'd get any sleep? I would have locked the bedroom door and told her to sleep elsewhere. Who would be left to take it out on? The kids. They've put up with enough, well beyond enough. With me gone she can sit in the marital bed and cry, shti, piss, and text her sugar pants all she wants. Let him save her ass now.

She can go to her parents. I'm guessing they will send her back saying you F'd everything up, go fix it. But that will be short lived.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> So.....I say SD and OP take a good vacay somewhere with tropical drinks and let WW stew in her own Sh*t for awhile.
> 
> The fact that she was sooo abusive is telling. I was reading that some spouses use the abuse as a way to limit their responsibilities on the true spouse. Also, it stated that they act like the spouse is a mirror for their behavior. She is projecting her feelings of disdain for herself onto you. Sucks but she is broken.
> 
> ...


I really didn't get along well with FiL at first. But that's kinda typical. I liked him in the fact he was the head of the household and wouldn't put up with much BS. When he tried to "take over" in a good way when we just M, we went fishing. Explained it must stop. And what will happen if he doesn't. After that we got along pretty well.

If he has something to say, say it to my face. Same goes for MiL.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

One question you didn’t answer today....

How are you doing?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What is OM's ex wife going to do about all this? Is she divorcing him?

I'd like to see what happens if that's the case. Your STBXW will find out just what a jewel that POS is when she tries to depend on him to make things all better and experiences everyday life with his sorry arse---- which likely won't even happen.

Any man that is putting the moves on another man's wife is a low life. JMO.  I think he will prove me right.

I know on your end it's not your problem. But it would be nice to see some karma coming her way in the cheating department. When he dumps her, you can bet she will put all 8 tentacles out for you. Woe is me, I f'd up, I was under a spell, I didn't know what I was doing, he is an ass, I hate him, You are the best thing that ever happened to me, I'm so sorry, etc. etc.

The thing is, selfish people never figure out until it's too late that they are REPLACEABLE. And the new model that takes her place is sportier and more reliable. Nobody wants a known cheating wretch to marry, unless they are also broken and busted. They might drive the unreliable car for a while, but they won't buy it. She's going to learn a lot about life in the next few years.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

ReturntoZero said:


> This is very wise.
> 
> Not to threadjack, but it fits perfectly into where I'm at.
> 
> ...


When you fight a war where the opponent never concedes until the last person is taken out, you have to ask yourself what exactly have you won.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

As to the pair of panties....
Did they met? Did she send him a pair of used ones? Or are they a pair from another side chick?


Hang in there.

When are you returning home?


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Kamstel said:


> One question you didn’t answer today....
> 
> How are you doing?


If I said I'm fine, I'd be lying. If I said I'm depressed, I'd be lying. This was coming either way. I'm focused on the end game. Get over this hump and see what life has to throw at you. I want the kids to decide where they want to stay and for how long, not a fat ass drunk in a black robe who doesn't know a damn thing about them.

I guess I'm a bit pissed. Turn anger and rage into positives.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

So...Now that we all have hindsight. Can we just refresh that this WAS and IS a typical cheater playbook. MT took it in the chin and kept pressing forward. He will get through this. 
Just so we are all on the same page... WW said:

"I wish I had married you (funny she dumped him)
Our children would have been so beautiful
xxx(me) has not satisfied me in bed in years (since she was graphic, so will I. I always had to place a hand towel beside me while giving her oral. If I didn't I'd look like a kid who fell off his bike on the way to school)
I told him (me) why I was so unhappy LIE
I would love to move up to xxxx with the kids. The winters there I hear are breathtaking."

Can we all now dispense with the "medical" reasons she was "unhappy" and "angry"....
And we can now give the veteran posters who ALL claimed cheating a "You were right.." 

I would like to know if MT has the financials taken care of. And is he in a secure position waiting for the papers to go through?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Had I stayed that night after everyone left, could you imagine the water works? Think I'd get any sleep? I would have locked the bedroom door and told her to sleep elsewhere. Who would be left to take it out on? The kids. They've put up with enough, well beyond enough. With me gone she can sit in the marital bed and cry, shti, piss, and text her sugar pants all she wants. Let him save her ass now.
> 
> She can go to her parents. I'm guessing they will send her back saying you F'd everything up, go fix it. But that will be short lived.


You know what you are doing. She made her bed, she can sleep in it. Not your problem. 

You mentioned an earlier agreed upon plan was for the children to stay on the home. Who will live with them? You or her?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> If I said I'm fine, I'd be lying. If I said I'm depressed, I'd be lying. This was coming either way. I'm focused on the end game. Get over this hump and see what life has to throw at you. I want the kids to decide where they want to stay and for how long, not a fat ass drunk in a black robe who doesn't know a damn thing about them.
> 
> I guess I'm a bit pissed. Turn anger and rage into positives.


Absolutely normal to be on a roller coaster of all the emotions. Do yourself a favor and try and go easy on the sauce. Work out the rage at the gym and a counselors office. Force your wife to stay away from you so you can have normal sane time with your children. 

You are doing great, as good as any human could under these difficult circumstances. Keep it up.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow MT, so well done! The only thing I would have liked to see done differently would be that you had bags packed for her during the exposure then pointed to the door to get her sorry ass out and far away. I always feel the cheater should be the one to leave the home. You can work out the actual property details/living arrangements down the line, but the WS should be ousted for a while. 

Yours is the most epic exposure I've read here yet, and I've been here forever lol! Keep moving forward, sir.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

M Thomas: Speaking as a person in the divorce industry, pissed off is the ideal mindset of a client pursuing D. Keep being pissed off until the process is completed. The number of times that I have had to talk a client out of softening their position because they are viewing their soon to be ex with compassion (false-KISA thinking-not real), hoping that the process will drive their wayward back to them. It is bullshït. 

My sense of things is that this is the furthest from your mind. That is a good thing. I would love for you to be the kind of person I have to admonish against destroying her world altogether. In this case, I hope that she is left with scorched earth, that even her bio daughter, not with you, hates her guts. My sense of it is that the OM will high-tail it either back to his BW, or he will get out of town. He already sees that his life is now going to shït, and he will toss your STBXW right under the bus. She ain't gonna like what is going to happen next. Sure one of you will end up with the house. I hope it is you, and she has nothing left. Not parents, not kids, not BH, not AP, no friends and no family. Let her deal with a world where she is a pariah. If she is one tenth of the nasty piece of work that you paint her as, then it is the future that Karma intends.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> So...Now that we all have hindsight. Can we just refresh that this WAS and IS a typical cheater playbook. MT took it in the chin and kept pressing forward. He will get through this.
> Just so we are all on the same page... WW said:
> 
> "I wish I had married you (funny she dumped him)
> ...


The different playbook comment was directed for @ReturntoZero But often there are different agendas (playbooks) going on. J explained it pretty well to me early on. I am not a believer in the MLC. It is more an excuse to avoid responsibility for your actions.

Bills will be 50-50 while processing the D. The extra cash will be split as near 50-50 as possible. I am 100% prepared if she wants to show her ass or become greedy.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> You know what you are doing. She made her bed, she can sleep in it. Not your problem.
> 
> You mentioned an earlier agreed upon plan was for the children to stay on the home. Who will live with them? You or her?


Previously it was where each would have one couple days, both a couple, and neither a couple. SD can help on transporting. But as I said it is up to them. They are both old enough to decide themselves, especially the one who will be a junior. My thought is why should they have to leave their home for several days a week? This will be a point of conflict. Along with, who gets the house, will one buy the other out, will it be sold?

Boy that one way ticket for her to Chicago would really be nice right now if she took it. She won't. She is not THAT pathetic of a mother. Or is she?


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Absolutely normal to be on a roller coaster of all the emotions. Do yourself a favor and try and go easy on the sauce. Work out the rage at the gym and a counselors office. Force your wife to stay away from you so you can have normal sane time with your children.
> 
> You are doing great, as good as any human could under these difficult circumstances. Keep it up.


I will not drink alone. B doesn't either, J does but he is also a writer. We will drink together sometimes. If I drink and hit a jag, I'm sure they'd highly recommend stopping. When J hit his coaster he stopped drinking and eating for a couple weeks. That gave him focus. They took time out of their lives to help me, damn right I'm going to listen. As have the posters here. Thank everyone for helping!


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

3Xnocharm said:


> Wow MT, so well done! The only thing I would have liked to see done differently would be that you had bags packed for her during the exposure then pointed to the door to get her sorry ass out and far away. I always feel the cheater should be the one to leave the home. You can work out the actual property details/living arrangements down the line, but the WS should be ousted for a while.
> 
> Yours is the most epic exposure I've read here yet, and I've been here forever lol! Keep moving forward, sir.


I agree 200%. I wish it was that way. It damn should. Maybe her and sugar britches can get a place and delusion off into the sunset. That would be too good to be true. I honestly think SD relished in the exposure more than I did.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Previously it was where each would have one couple days, both a couple, and neither a couple. SD can help on transporting. But as I said it is up to them. They are both old enough to decide themselves, especially the one who will be a junior. My thought is why should they have to leave their home for several days a week? This will be a point of conflict. Along with, who gets the house, will one buy the other out, will it be sold?
> 
> Boy that one way ticket for her to Chicago would really be nice right now if she took it. She won't. She is not THAT pathetic of a mother. Or is she?


I have heard of situations where each parent has their own apartment and splits time with the kids in the house alone 50/50. As far as acting like a couple in front of the kids that idea has sailed away. Maybe before February but now would be pointless. It would just make everyone uncomfortable and might give her ideas about a reconciliation. 

If she runs to Chicago or wherever so be it. Easier for you actually. Out of sight, out of mind. She demands half of equity to start a new life there is not much you can do about it but move on. That may well end up and is out of your hands.

In the end she has to explain to her kids why she behaved like such a selfish jerk and betrayed not only her husband but her family - her own children. Hopefully one day years from now when she works her crap out she will be honest enough with herself to tell her kids to not act like her. In the meantime not your problem.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> I will not drink alone. B doesn't either, J does but he is also a writer. We will drink together sometimes. If I drink and hit a jag, I'm sure they'd highly recommend stopping. When J hit his coaster he stopped drinking and eating for a couple weeks. That gave him focus. They took time out of their lives to help me, damn right I'm going to listen. As have the posters here. Thank everyone for helping!


It is really great that you have a support network close by. I've seen posters here in your shoes who are a bit isolated buddies wise and even physically like living in her home town and it makes a BIG difference having that network. Bravo for them!


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> I will not drink alone. B doesn't either, J does but he is also a writer. We will drink together sometimes. If I drink and hit a jag, I'm sure they'd highly recommend stopping. When J hit his coaster he stopped drinking and eating for a couple weeks. That gave him focus. They took time out of their lives to help me, damn right I'm going to listen. As have the posters here. Thank everyone for helping!


It is really great that you have a support network close by. I've seen posters here in your shoes who are a bit isolated buddies wise and even physically like living in her home town and it makes a BIG difference having that network. Bravo for them!


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Previously it was where each would have one couple days, both a couple, and neither a couple. SD can help on transporting. But as I said it is up to them. They are both old enough to decide themselves, especially the one who will be a junior. My thought is why should they have to leave their home for several days a week? This will be a point of conflict. Along with, who gets the house, will one buy the other out, will it be sold?
> 
> Boy that one way ticket for her to Chicago would really be nice right now if she took it. She won't. She is not THAT pathetic of a mother. Or is she?


Triple post


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Previously it was where each would have one couple days, both a couple, and neither a couple. SD can help on transporting. But as I said it is up to them. They are both old enough to decide themselves, especially the one who will be a junior. My thought is why should they have to leave their home for several days a week? This will be a point of conflict. Along with, who gets the house, will one buy the other out, will it be sold?
> 
> Boy that one way ticket for her to Chicago would really be nice right now if she took it. She won't. She is not THAT pathetic of a mother. Or is she?


Double post


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> It is really great that you have a support network close by. I've seen posters here in your shoes who are a bit isolated buddies wise and even physically like living in her home town and it makes a BIG difference having that network. Bravo for them!


J and B both had support networks when they were here, most were not local. Both stressed local is better but not necessary. When you get that text you want to go fire and brimstone on, they're there to say it ain't worth it, move along. I haven't checked a text since Sunday afternoon. Per them I must wait 3 days. My kids were told to call me, they do. Work knew about it. My parents don't text. I'm sure she has texted. All unanswered or viewed. Returning home day will be a riot I'm sure. Be prepared.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Are you still in contact with OMW? Has she confronted yet?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> J and B both had support networks when they were here, most were not local. Both stressed local is better but not necessary. When you get that text you want to go fire and brimstone on, they're there to say it ain't worth it, move along. I haven't checked a text since Sunday afternoon. Per them I must wait 3 days. My kids were told to call me, they do. Work knew about it. My parents don't text. I'm sure she has texted. All unanswered or viewed. Returning home day will be a riot I'm sure. Be prepared.


Good advice to stay dark on her and avoid a text war. Let the teeth gnashing, howling, crying, flareups be one sided from her and ignore it. Save the texts for later. Best advice is if it is not about the kids schedule, health etc just ignore her completely.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

How did piece of sh it’s wife do with her confrontation? Has it happened yet?

Did I read correctly that she Skyped in when you exposed?


Hope you are doing well. Hang in there.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

MThomas said:


> When you fight a war where the opponent never concedes until the last person is taken out, you have to ask yourself what exactly have you won.


And, it's still going tonight.

Just a taste...

"I haven't yet processed all the infantile passive-aggressive invective from the past 12 years.

"i'm not your secretary"


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

ReturntoZero said:


> And, it's still going tonight.
> 
> Just a taste...
> 
> ...


A 23 y/o bimbo could help you keep track of this.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

You may be a hero/legend for your reveal. Well done.

Right now UR running partially on adrenaline and anger. The time will come when you will need to grieve the loss of your dream--not her. Important to take care of you. 

Her selfishness is mind boggling to me. You are not going back to 19. Better to be doing this at 40 than 60. Your best years lie ahead.

Your kids sound like gems--UR lucky--not to diminish your work to accomplish this. However, the time will come when even though they do not like mom's behavior, they will want some sort of 'love' from her. This may be sticky so be aware and supportive.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

sunsetmist said:


> You may be a hero/legend for your reveal. Well done.
> 
> Right now UR running partially on adrenaline and anger. The time will come when you will need to grieve the loss of your dream--not her. Important to take care of you.
> 
> ...


My parents met young and M young. Out of I guess 20 close friends I had through my teenage years, my parents and 3-4 others made it. Everyone else had to deal with D parents. It was very depressing for them. It changed them. Most for the worse. I never dreamed of getting a D but I am here. I want them to have whatever type of relationship with their mom THEY want. I will in no way impede that.

My concern is the home. It is pretty much paid for. There is no way either of us could buy the other out. The last thing I would want to do is sell it, that is the kids home. Now if they all said egh I couldn't care less if you sold it, that would be a differnt story. In a perfect world all the kids would be over 21 and they could have it after WW and I borrow 25% each on it to find a place. But the only Perfect World I ever heard of was sand by Huey Lewis.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Tobyboy said:


> Are you still in contact with OMW? Has she confronted yet?


Yes. It was a double exposure. She kicked him out and he is staying with a friend. He wants to work things out with her. Gee what a shock


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

He wants to work things out, huh? But.... But.... But... What about his soulmate? What is she to do? Is her love now unrequited?

I think they really ought to at least give this relationship a chance to be real. They are so in love and all. Maybe have a chance to have such beautiful children. I think they'd be soulmates for at least a couple of months before they both decided the other is not all that and a bag of chips as reality started to destroy the land of rainbows and unicorns.

It's shocking to me that these two people that have never met (?) thought their "relationship" was a real thing. It was truly all fantasy, and that they were willing to throw away decent people that they swore to be loyal to is pretty crazy. 

Now that their low character has been shown, it would truly take unconditional love to take them back. And unconditional love can be the worst type of love possible when it's for an overall bad person.

Sad story, and one that is not that uncommon in today's world of technology.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

My kids (youngest was 20) demanded that I divorce because home situation was so unstable--I didn't believe in divorce. The home had mixed memories. 

In reality it had become a house and not a home. Two were married and on own. One got apartment. One moved with me to a unique and special place.

Years later, they all stay with me when visiting and we have been making new memories. Two don't want to live in same town with him. They pay him a short complimentary visit most times they visit--so sad.


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## dreamer2017 (Nov 7, 2017)

MT,

You have handled this situation with excellence. Be prepared for the fallout.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> He wants to work things out, huh? But.... But.... But... What about his soulmate? What is she to do? Is her love now unrequited?
> 
> I think they really ought to at least give this relationship a chance to be real. They are so in love and all. Maybe have a chance to have such beautiful children. I think they'd be soulmates for at least a couple of months before they both decided the other is not all that and a bag of chips as reality started to destroy the land of rainbows and unicorns.
> 
> ...


In a world of disillusion, perception must be reality. Sad


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MThomas said:


> Yes. It was a double exposure. She kicked him out and he is staying with a friend. He wants to work things out with her. Gee what a shock


This is why my exposure bombs feel like they never landed properly. Each time, OM went back to his wife and W accepted him and his sentiment that he didn't mean it (every time he got caught and he was sorry and she meant nothing to him) while in the other ear he was able to keep EW still hanging with whatever he was telling her each time. Just seems so crazy that the evidence and his lies could be so crazy each time and his W would take him for his word each time and my EW would stand by and think this was all part of the plan, even when he would throw her under the bus.

I had texts that basically said what they were going to meet up to do and OM convinced his wife that, that was just talk and they met at parks to just talk and enjoy the nice weather ... I sh** you not.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

stillfightingforus said:


> This is why my exposure bombs feel like they never landed properly. Each time, OM went back to his wife and W accepted him and his sentiment that he didn't mean it (every time he got caught and he was sorry and she meant nothing to him) while in the other ear he was able to keep EW still hanging with whatever he was telling her each time. Just seems so crazy that the evidence and his lies could be so crazy each time and his W would take him for his word each time and my EW would stand by and think this was all part of the plan, even when he would throw her under the bus.
> 
> I had texts that basically said what they were going to meet up to do and OM convinced his wife that, that was just talk and they met at parks to just talk and enjoy the nice weather ... I sh** you not.


YOur OM's wife is insecure, has no sense of self worth, is likely hugely codependent, and WANTS to believe the scumbag. 
Any person with above Forrest Gump level intelligence has to know they didn't talk about meeting up and screwing and end up discussing the weather and taking a nice walk.

The exposure has zero effect when the OM or OW's spouse is not a strong person. Apparently MThomas' OMW is not some pushover. She laid the boom on this doofus, just as MThomas did his wife. She has clear self respect, as does he.
She knows she can live without this type of person and be better off.

It's just a shame that people can be so easily led to betraying the people they swore to put first above all others. A real shame.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> YOur OM's wife is insecure, has no sense of self worth, is likely hugely codependent, and WANTS to believe the scumbag.
> Any person with above Forrest Gump level intelligence has to know they didn't talk about meeting up and screwing and end up discussing the weather and taking a nice walk.
> 
> The exposure has zero effect when the OM or OW's spouse is not a strong person. Apparently MThomas' OMW is not some pushover. She laid the boom on this doofus, just as MThomas did his wife. She has clear self respect, as does he.
> ...


I think it's a mixture of all of that. When I talked to her months ago, she said her first marriage ended with her first husband cheating on her. She is attractive for her age, she is very intelligent in just about every aspect outside of this BS, is a romance novelist and from everything she told me their marriage on the surface is very strong. They go on a ton of trips together, they have a very active sex life, there is nothing lacking at home. Just appears that the OM is a narcissist and since he can get away with it, he does it. His job allows him to go wherever whenever and he can be living on location for months at a time away from home. OM's Wife may be co-dependent but (also) similar to me, has a lot of positive things going on outside of the BS and maybe just doesn't want to lose another marriage to cheating. Who knows. 

I found out all of the details on my own perseverance and utilizing my IT background but at one point hired a PI, which was the biggest waste of money in my case imaginable. One interesting thing he did find out though, is that everyone he talked to that came in contact with OM, had the same sentiment. He was one of the most charming people they have ever met and had charisma through the roof. Just goes to show, one thing I read on here is so true. It's what is between the ears that can create a lot of attraction for many women, what to say, how to ACT, etc. Cause the best analogy of what he looks like if we stood next to each other is the cover of the movie TWINS, with him only being a slightly taller and lighter version of Danny Devito and with perfect fake white teeth.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

sunsetmist said:


> My kids (youngest was 20) demanded that I divorce because home situation was so unstable--I didn't believe in divorce. The home had mixed memories.
> 
> In reality it had become a house and not a home. Two were married and on own. One got apartment. One moved with me to a unique and special place.
> 
> Years later, they all stay with me when visiting and we have been making new memories. Two don't want to live in same town with him. They pay him a short complimentary visit most times they visit--so sad.


I so agree with you. A house is a structure, nothing more. Would not be as difficult if the kids were all grown. But it could be worse, they could all 3 still be under 18.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

dreamer2017 said:


> MT,
> 
> You have handled this situation with excellence. Be prepared for the fallout.


Sadly yes. I ain't outta the woods yet by a longshot


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

MThomas said:


> Sadly yes. I ain't outta the woods yet by a longshot


So I have to ask: Is your wife wanting to "work things out"????????

I already know the answer, but.......


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> This is why my exposure bombs feel like they never landed properly. Each time, OM went back to his wife and W accepted him and his sentiment that he didn't mean it (every time he got caught and he was sorry and she meant nothing to him) while in the other ear he was able to keep EW still hanging with whatever he was telling her each time. Just seems so crazy that the evidence and his lies could be so crazy each time and his W would take him for his word each time and my EW would stand by and think this was all part of the plan, even when he would throw her under the bus.
> 
> I had texts that basically said what they were going to meet up to do and OM convinced his wife that, that was just talk and they met at parks to just talk and enjoy the nice weather ... I sh** you not.


I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell to your EW


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MThomas said:


> I so agree with you. A house is a structure, nothing more. Would not be as difficult if the kids were all grown. But it could be worse, they could all 3 still be under 18.


I was deadset on keeping the house, kind of like my line in the sand, foolish or not. Kids loved the house, neighborhood, etc. I didn't have the cash to buy her out so it came out of my retirement. I lost about half of my retirement between giving her the equity payment and 'balancing' our retirement accounts, which is a mandate.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MThomas said:


> I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell to your EW


lol, per my post above, she has money for a down payment on that bridge now!


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

MT, did you return to the house yet?

What has cheater been saying?


The only word to describe what you have handled this is “impressive”

Keep moving straight ahead toward your goal


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Decorum said:


> You handled it very well.
> You did what you had to do and now yo feel like shhit.
> 
> I am sorry. You will get through this too.
> ...


I think a therapist/counseling would be very helpful, which means finding someone who knows what the Hell they are doing. One of the only silver linings in all of this is that the Marriage Counselor I wanted us to go to and that my EW dropped out of after 3 meetings because it was doing more harm than good .... was experienced in so many other areas and became a great IC for me.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> So I have to ask: Is your wife wanting to "work things out"????????
> 
> I already know the answer, but.......


Don't know. Haven't seen, spoken, seen any texts since Sunday afternoon. It'll be an eye opener to say the least


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Kamstel said:


> MT, did you return to the house yet? *No*
> 
> What has cheater been saying? * IDGAF*
> 
> ...


Any possible outcome and reaction has been planned for.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> I think a therapist/counseling would be very helpful, which means finding someone who knows what the Hell they are doing. One of the only silver linings in all of this is that the Marriage Counselor I wanted us to go to and that my EW dropped out of after 3 meetings because it was doing more harm than good .... was experienced in so many other areas and became a great IC for me.


J took me to the lake. I got seasick. IC I will seek out


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> My parents met young and M young. Out of I guess 20 close friends I had through my teenage years, my parents and 3-4 others made it. Everyone else had to deal with D parents. It was very depressing for them. It changed them. Most for the worse. I never dreamed of getting a D but I am here. I want them to have whatever type of relationship with their mom THEY want. I will in no way impede that.
> 
> *My concern is the home. It is pretty much paid for. There is no way either of us could buy the other out. The last thing I would want to do is sell it, that is the kids home.* Now if they all said egh I couldn't care less if you sold it, that would be a differnt story. In a perfect world all the kids would be over 21 and they could have it after WW and I borrow 25% each on it to find a place. But the only Perfect World I ever heard of was sand by Huey Lewis.


Since the home is paid for would refinancing be an option to buy her out?


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Please keep a VAR on you at all times so she can’t make any wild accusations. She will try, but you will have the evidence to counter any such claims


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

I have nanny cams at the house. That is why I posted that question awhile back. I have been versed on the DV BS some guys get. Torn top, red face, bruises self inflicted. Being 6'4 and 280, the cops can see that. Both guys told me their STBXWs threatened that. One was going to say they loved dressing up as a female and banging guys. LOL Unreal.

She can say WETF she wants, I don't care. She is no longer my wife, the wait is due to the government. In my heart, I am already D. Fock the government. Actually FML while we are at it.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

I want to thank everyone for chiming in. Your help is invaluable. Your insight is superb. "This is what you will hear" They were right. I had to see it for myself.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> I want to thank everyone for chiming in. Your help is invaluable. Your insight is superb. "This is what you will hear" They were right. I had to see it for myself.


I gather the texts from her are pouring in now? Phone blowing up? Are you ok?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

MThomas said:


> I want to thank everyone for chiming in. Your help is invaluable. Your insight is superb. "This is what you will hear" They were right. I had to see it for myself.


If you are talking about everything that she is saying, I for one would love a sample. 

You don't have to go on forever with it, but I would LOVE to hear what B.S. she is spewing toward you. Has she said she wants to work it out? Has she said she is sorry? What has she said? 

And how is your SD taking it????


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I gather the texts from her are pouring in now? Phone blowing up? Are you ok?


I'll find out tonight. Going back after friend's birthday thing. Will turn it on in front of her. Hope she likes the couch


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> If you are talking about everything that she is saying, I for one would love a sample.
> 
> You don't have to go on forever with it, but I would LOVE to hear what B.S. she is spewing toward you. Has she said she wants to work it out? Has she said she is sorry? What has she said?
> 
> And how is your SD taking it????


The "this is what you will hear" was what J and B told me I would hear from people here. Sat that three times fast LOL


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I have to admit, I'm interested in hearing wifey's excuses since we all know they will flow like a river, now that her internet Romeo is going to throw her under the bus, while trying to get his wife to take him back.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> I have to admit, I'm interested in hearing wifey's excuses since we all know they will flow like a river, now that her internet Romeo is going to throw her under the bus, while trying to get his wife to take him back.


She will go geography, that is certain. She will take the Nile. As in de-Nile. I find it freaking hilarious she probably thinks the M can be saved.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MT, ever figure out what the P.O boxes were for?


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> MT, ever figure out what the P.O boxes were for?


Maybe they weren't even cheating, maybe they just had a mail order/infomercial product and that's where they collected the payments and order info? Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> MT, ever figure out what the P.O boxes were for?


OMW and I think it's for the burner phones and F letters. And the panties she sent him. OMW mailed them back. I may wait until she is asleep tonight and lay them across her face


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

MThomas said:


> OMW and I think it's for the burner phones and F letters. And the panties she sent him. OMW mailed them back. I may wait until she is asleep tonight and lay them across her face



SAVAGE!!!!!:whip:


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> OMW and I think it's for the burner phones and F letters. And the panties she sent him. OMW mailed them back. I may wait until she is asleep tonight and lay them across her face


Don't give them back to her until the divorce is final IF she stays sane. She insists on becoming real arse during the divorce present them back to her in a 'public ceremony'. I say that because in her own words she is unhappy with you and you are a monster so she should be happy splitting from you and not act like an arse. 

Just stay cool.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Don't give them back to her until the divorce is final IF she stays sane. She insists on becoming real arse during the divorce present them back to her in a 'public ceremony'. I say that because in her own words she is unhappy with you and you are a monster so she should be happy splitting from you and not act like an arse.
> 
> Just stay cool.


She will be looking for ways to demonize you in her own mind most importantly and to others. Give her the ultimate FU by doing what you have been doing, with calculated and righteous moves.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

stillfightingforus said:


> She will be looking for ways to demonize you in her own mind most importantly and to others. Give her the ultimate FU by doing what you have been doing, with calculated and righteous moves.


Demonization?

I know all about that.

I got this little gem today by text.

Regarding the boat accident in the Ozarks, she said since our group left a day before... she was thinking that I would have been happy had "they" been on the boat that capsized, because it would have 'gotten rid' of the people I hate most in this life.

My response?

"And, how is that helpful"?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MThomas said:


> She will go geography, that is certain. She will take the Nile. As in de-Nile. I find it freaking hilarious she probably thinks the M can be saved.


Do you have some indication of this, or is it speculation?

Watch the ego, as expectations can put you right back on that roller coaster.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ReturntoZero said:


> Demonization?
> 
> I know all about that.
> 
> ...


Victimhood is strong with that one.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Victimhood is strong with that one.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


She could have authored the letter in my thread. Every... single... word.

Hand in glove.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

ReturntoZero said:


> Demonization?
> 
> I know all about that.
> 
> ...


"Crickets" would have been better


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Good luck on your return


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Just checking in on you

Are you ok?
Hang in there


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> "Crickets" would have been better


I don't think you understand her.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

ReturntoZero said:


> I don't think you understand her.



It's ok not to respond. Try it


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> It's ok not to respond. Try it


I do it plenty.

Yet, even tonight after she "signed off" text, she came down to argue.

I told her we'd "talk about it tomorrow" and I walked away.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Perfect


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> Perfect


I call it "Operation Maximum Pressure"


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Returned home Thursday. Well it's not a home anymore but, was late. WW was asleep, kids were up. Summer break and they're awake past midnight. Did the room to room. Both said mom has been a mess but has stopped yelling at them. Said she talked to both and apologized. Apparently SD and WW must have had it out. At that time I was unknowing. My gut told me not the right time to say anything. She was asleep. I left her panties over her face. Grabbed a few things and left. Returned early next morning.

Secured everything I needed in the bedroom. Anything I did not use, wear, know what was was taken to guest bedroom. Have friend on standby if I need lock put on door. The text, yes there were plenty. They went from condemning me to screaming to screaming just to hear herself scream to where are you to water works apologies. In other words, the typical.

When she arrived home I made sure I was outside. Went ahead and made the kids alt-lunch. "I guess you hate me now" was her first words. We talked for a few hours. The kids must have known because they never once came out and am sure they were listening in. WW gave full confession. Gave exact timeline of how it went. She told me much more than I knew so she must have thought I knew everything. Everything admitted fit the timeline. The only thing I was not aware of was a couple of nude video chats. "When are you going to ask me why" My reply was I shouldn't have to.

Unhappy about living in the rat race, unhappy she hasn't achieved enough, unhappy with her parents, unhappy she hasn't given the kids everything she wanted to, unhappy she wasn't a better wife to me. "What ways did you try to make yourself unsad" WW had no true response. The conversations were going cordial up to then. "I know you are very upset with me, what can I do to fix this"

That's when it took a turn. WW is mad I will not forgive her. Mad I will not allow her to fix things. "B" said this was a likely outcome. B and J gave me 5 outcomes. She went the #2 way. I detailed how I felt.
The marriage is over. It can not be fixed. You gave your heart to another man. I'm done.
We need to start dividing the assets.
50-50 on custody on paper but kids can stay wherever they choose. No child support
Health ins. get your own. I carry the kids. I expect 50% from you this month. 
All expenses will be 50-50 on the kids with receipts. No Fing lawyers are needed.
You are free to date anyone you choose. Wait you already have.
I'm not leaving the house. You cheated, you leave. If you stay, you stay in guest room.
At later date we must discuss division of home
Use the kids as leverage one time and the gloves are off
And dinners in the oven (where are you going) unanswered

Kids went to SDs last night. Hell I almost did too LOL WW is giving me my space. No screaming or yelling, no blamshifts, re-telling history, no anger stamp collecting, no victim circling. Pretty much what the kids and me had wanted. Look what it took to get it. No exposure, nothing would have changed. As my son said "now she's playing good mom"

War isn't over but I like wher I am standing. Prepared for next outburst. Family drops from 4 others to 3. More time for the 3.

WTF is the rewind button to 2008?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Anger at not forgiving her.

Entitlement.

Wayward thinking. 

Even if you wanted reconciliation, you could not with her. At least...not yet. 

She hasn't hit rock bottom yet, and her dive will continue until she does. 

Watch your back.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

ReturntoZero said:


> I do it plenty.
> 
> Yet, even tonight after she "signed off" text, she came down to argue.
> 
> I told her we'd "talk about it tomorrow" and I walked away.


Where have I heard that before? WW would verbally say what she would text the kids when they were arguing. I would laugh. Why are you laughing? WTF you want, standing ovation? When she tried it with me, I refused to argue over text. This would be followed by her coming into the living room. I would get up, spread my arms and sing I'm George Jetson, etc. Of course she would follow me. I'd go to front door and open it. ?? Thought you'd want the neighbors to hear it too. 

Anger spill. "I can't hear what you are yelling because your actions speak so loudly"


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Anger at not forgiving her.
> 
> Entitlement.
> 
> ...


Exactly what the guys said. I do plan on telling her how her actions forced me to distance myself from her. But not anytime soon. In fact what I would be telling her, she already knows. I just hope we can be cordial and coparent effectively. She will not see this until she realizes our M is over. Some people can look past cheating. I'm not one of those.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You don't think she believes it's over?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

I feel for you brother. After the adrenaline of the big exposure, the period that kind of allows you to forget about the pain of what's going on, because you are so vested in working on the plan is now over. The real hard work begins but the necessary work. 

Doesn't matter how many people told me I did the right thing, they were proud of me and she is the one in the wrong .... It was of little consolation. It will matter more later down the road when we can hold our head high knowing we went about it with dignity and honor but what you quickly find out, there are no winners in this. The game was played by her for her and she played the turns for everyone in her life and lost, lost the game for her, you and your kids and you didn't even have a fair chance to play. 

Now begins the process of getting through the divorce as quickly and as amicable and fair as possible. I hope the best for you and your kids and as much of a low life as your WW became in this, for her to be the best mom she can be after this.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> You don't think she believes it's over?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


According to OMW sugar pants threw WW to the sharks. I am guessing WW wants everything to be in safe mode so she can regroup. She wants to rugsweep. I'm just waiting for the it wasn't as if we really had sex excuse. That is why my belief that if they had the chance, they would have solidifies me. The constant whining and arguing are absent, for now.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

“How can I fix this”? 

Sign the D papers and become invisible.

Poor muffin is about to be set free


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

She did offer to buy me out on the house. Well not her, more her parents. The offer was roughly $10,000 more than I had penciled in for half. Maybe this can fast track this divorce.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MThomas said:


> farsidejunky said:
> 
> 
> > You don't think she believes it's over?
> ...


With every exposure OM always threw my EWW to the sharks but she adopted the mindset that it was all part of the master plan for him to eventually leave his W. She even told me after the last exposure bombing that he was just telling his W those things and she would do the same thing (lies). I told her at that point I realize in your own mind that you don't even consider this cheating on me but don't you care one ounce what you are doing to his W? Her response was that was their problem!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MThomas said:


> She did offer to buy me out on the house. Well not her, more her parents. The offer was roughly $10,000 more than I had penciled in for half. Maybe this can fast track this divorce.


Well blood is most often thicker than water. Take the money !!!!!


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MThomas said:


> She did offer to buy me out on the house. Well not her, more her parents. The offer was roughly $10,000 more than I had penciled in for half. Maybe this can fast track this divorce.


Once I get to a computer I'll send you a message about drafting a property agreement it was the single most important legal part of the divorce because we rolled up so many other agreements into it, that it made divorce hearing a formality because 99% had been signed and sealed already.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Burner phones, PO boxes, fake FB account etc....

No amateur here! 

Her “full confession” is horse sh*t. It’s a tactic to dissuade you from further digging. There’s more.....there’s always more!


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> With every exposure OM always threw my EWW to the sharks but she adopted the mindset that it was all part of the master plan for him to eventually leave his W. She even told me after the last exposure bombing that he was just telling his W those things and she would do the same thing (lies). I told her at that point I realize in your own mind that you don't even consider this cheating on me but don't you care one ounce what you are doing to his W? Her response was that was their problem!


Your EWW was a life suction artist. Or as a tam great put it many times, emotional vampire


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

MThomas said:


> Your EWW was a life suction artist. Or as a tam great put it many times, emotional vampire


That's the appropriate term.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Tobyboy said:


> Burner phones, PO boxes, fake FB account etc....
> 
> No amateur here!
> 
> Her “full confession” is horse sh*t. It’s a tactic to dissuade you from further digging. There’s more.....there’s always more!


You could very well be correct. Others are looking into that but I'm not. I saw what I needed to. If a D makes her a better person to her 3 kids, then hell it's a win. I want them to have a relationship.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

MThomas said:


> You could very well be correct. Others are looking into that but I'm not. I saw what I needed to. If a D makes her a better person to her 3 kids, then hell it's a win. I want them to have a relationship.


I understand and agree ....... affair(s)=dealbreaker.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So I do t get it. She swears her undying love for this cad and claims you are a low life and that her kids with him would be do beautiful, etc etc. ad nauseum.

Then she expects you to just forgive and forget? 

She said she didn’t love you, and lived him.

There might be forgiveness, but you can’t really have a marriage after that.

What could she say? I had my fingers crossed every tube and I really love you?
I just don’t thing people this selfish and entitied are even capable of ha omg any empathy toward the pain you feel over this.

Yeah. Divorce her legally. She did it to you in her heart long ago.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So I do t get it. She swears her undying love for this cad and claims you are a low life and that her kids with him would be do beautiful, etc etc. ad nauseum.

Then she expects you to just forgive and forget? 

She said she didn’t love you, and lived him.

There might be forgiveness, but you can’t really have a marriage after that.

What could she say? I had my fingers crossed every tube and I really love you?
I just don’t thing people this selfish and entitied are even capable of ha omg any empathy toward the pain you feel over this.

Yeah. Divorce her legally. She did it to you in her heart long ago.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> She did offer to buy me out on the house. Well not her, more her parents. The offer was roughly $10,000 more than I had penciled in for half. Maybe this can fast track this divorce.


That is a measure of how selfish she is. She thinks that with you out of the way in a 'amicable' divorce that life will go on. With daddy out of the way that life will resume with little impact to the kids. 

She is absolutely clueless just how much damage she has done to her children and just how angry they all are. She thinks an apology to them and then daddy moves everything will be ok. Their anger is as deep as yours if not deeper as they are younger and don't have the life skills developed and life experience yet to process it. 

She negated their existence by wishing they had a different father. If anything strikes deep and low to them it is that. 

That miserable 10k would be better spent on some serious therapy on herself and how to mitigate the damage she has done to her children.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Take the good deal on the buyout and get the hell out while she still has a tiny bit of conscience over what she did. That will quickly evaporate and her friends will coach her in how to screw you over. Fast track it?

Y
E
S
!!!!!!!!!!


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> Take the good deal on the buyout and get the hell out while she still has a tiny bit of conscience over what she did. That will quickly evaporate and her friends will coach her in how to screw you over. Fast track it?
> 
> Y
> E
> ...


I'm not going to hang my hat too much on her parents helping her out that much. It is not their nature. I couldn't see them helping her with $5,000 much less $100,000+. She will grab at straws with her family. And as usual, be disappointed. She can't make enough to cover all the household bills, not even close. J/B mentioned she will back away from buying me out and ask me to buy her. The reasons are the kids will very likely want to live with me. SD will not move back home with her, yes WW asked SD to. That shows complete desperation. I would have to be looking for at least a 4 bedroom house. In my area that is automatically $250,000, with a $400,000 average. Add in she can't afford the house herself, we think she will want to be bought out. She can get a 2 bedroom apartment and live decent. 

I can't see her moving back with her parents, even on a temp basis. I could her siblings but that would be short lived. They're all over-achievers who love nothing more than pointing out other people's flaws. They would critique her mercilessly. No I never gave a damn for any of them. But as a husband, you have your wife's back regardless. I see her agreeing to most of the terms at first. Then it may get rough. 

WW took the guest room. She left the door open. Would sit there and cry, maybe seeking out sympathy. The kids are talking to her some, as in getting their feet wet. I explained to them mom has a number of issues and even though she took them out on them, she was anger tossing. She isn't nowhere near as upset with you two than you think. Just give her time. Of course I get do you hate mom now. Fair question for a teen. I will always love your mother. I had to to want to create you two. I will love the person she was. And if mom is trying, give her a chance. If she goes off on you unwarranted, let me know.

Bad outcome in any direction. She offered sex the first night back. I was tempted but knew best not to. It's funny I see so much of her in SD. SD is around the age she was when we got M. I'm really curious to hear how SD and WW went at it. But that is for SD to tell. WW could but, I can't really believe a damn word she says anymore.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Damn! The manipulation has already started. Sex offer, crying alone...... Next will be walking around naked and being the perfect wife. When that doesn’t work, she’ll start going out at night, coming home drunk. Typical, be prepared.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Tobyboy said:


> Damn! The manipulation has already started. Sex offer, crying alone...... Next will be walking around naked and being the perfect wife. When that doesn’t work, she’ll start going out at night, coming home drunk. Typical, be prepared.


And when she tries to use the kids as leverage, she will not like my actions. She had the nerve to tell me she was ovulating. And wanted a response. I asked her when dinner was ready. If my insurance covered it, I would get a bottle of Viagra and walk around with a constant woody. Ain't worth $100 for 5 damn pills. Got friend request from old ex-gf asking how I was doing. News travels in a small town I guess. I didn't accept it but did respond. It's nice to know some people want to look out for you.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

MThomas said:


> And when she tries to use the kids as leverage, she will not like my actions. She had the nerve to tell me she was ovulating. And wanted a response. I asked her when dinner was ready. If my insurance covered it, I would get a bottle of Viagra and walk around with a constant woody. Ain't worth $100 for 5 damn pills. Got friend request from old ex-gf asking how I was doing. News travels in a small town I guess. I didn't accept it but did respond. It's nice to know some people want to look out for you.


Are you prepared to watch your wife get all dressed up for her dates at night once the kids are asleep? Coming home in the early morning before they have awoken?
I mean, you did give her the green light to date.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Tobyboy said:


> Are you prepared to watch your wife get all dressed up for her dates at night once the kids are asleep? Coming home in the early morning before they have awoken?
> I mean, you did give her the green light to date.


I don't care if she banged Trump. I'm done. She will throw digs at me, that is certain. What do you expect me to do, sit by idly? We will be under the same roof for I am guessing 90 days. I again, do not care what she does. I am focusing on me, my health, my kids. In my book, she is a ho, go lay with whomever. She is not part of my future.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Negotiate the deal and get out as soon as possible!

Be careful and DO NOT have sex with her


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

MThomas said:


> I don't care if she banged Trump. I'm done. She will throw digs at me, that is certain. What do you expect me to do, sit by idly? We will be under the same roof for I am guessing 90 days. I again, do not care what she does. I am focusing on me, my health, my kids. In my book, she is a ho, go lay with whomever. She is not part of my future.


Just saying. If it does happen, your kids will find out, they always do, what are going to do to shield them from your wife’s actions? 

IHS(In house separation) is a different kind of hell, I’ve been told.

ETA: For the record, I think you did great with the nuclear confrontation and all. I did the same but with harsher consequences.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Does she say now that she loves you? What changed?

I mean, other than OM dumped her and she's alone......


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It is not written anywhere that anyone automatically gets a second chance


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

MThomas said:


> I'm not going to hang my hat too much on her parents helping her out that much. It is not their nature. I couldn't see them helping her with $5,000 much less $100,000+. She will grab at straws with her family. And as usual, be disappointed. She can't make enough to cover all the household bills, not even close. J/B mentioned she will back away from buying me out and ask me to buy her. The reasons are the kids will very likely want to live with me. SD will not move back home with her, yes WW asked SD to. That shows complete desperation. I would have to be looking for at least a 4 bedroom house. In my area that is automatically $250,000, with a $400,000 average. Add in she can't afford the house herself, we think she will want to be bought out. She can get a 2 bedroom apartment and live decent.
> 
> I can't see her moving back with her parents, even on a temp basis. I could her siblings but that would be short lived. They're all over-achievers who love nothing more than pointing out other people's flaws. They would critique her mercilessly. No I never gave a damn for any of them. But as a husband, you have your wife's back regardless. I see her agreeing to most of the terms at first. Then it may get rough.
> 
> ...


My ex couldn't afford the house. In the beginning I was going to keep it but then after a year she decided she wanted it and I quickly let her have it. She had no possible way to pay the house off or the monthly bills, she wasn't even working full time. A few months after she got the house bank calls me they are foreclosing. I told the bank if they evict her I would pay the mortgage off in full the next day. That's when her mom finally came to the rescue and got the mortgage current again and I know her mom has bailed her out several times. 

Your stbx is going to eventually make this into a bloodbath I fear, she's paying the game right now but she also believe's she can reel you back in, once she realizes she can't it tends to get ugly.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Does she say now that she loves you? What changed?
> 
> I mean, other than OM dumped her and she's alone......


Incredible that things didn't work out with posOM

Who could possibly have foreseen that outcome?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP is doing well to put distance between himself and a woman who gives her feelings so easily to a man she really doesn’t even know in real life, and who places her word and her honor at such an impossibly low value.

Such people are not meant to be with men of character, and bring nothing but trouble.

MThomas should make every breath he draws for the next year, to be used to be as free from his ex wife financially, emotionally, and legally,as possible. 

Then put all his energy into rebuilding his life the way he wants it.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

All quiet on the western front I guess. SD doesn't come by anymore but calls. The kids are into school starting back but communication with their mom is still splotchy. Better but still not good. The clock on the D is counting. The kids are acting like they are cool with the D. They're not good actors. WW cooked on of my favs but didn't make any overtures. WW is depressed, I'm depressed, all the kids are depressed. Maybe a reality show, The Depresseds? We have agreed on nearly 75% of the items each want. I get the boo hoos and apologies. I'm hoping all the bird shti has already been dropped. I doubt it but doesn't hurt to hope. 

Went to my doctor. He recommended benzos. That is a last resort for me. Maybe some natural supplements first. Borderline high blood pressure, wonder why? WW has picked up smoking again. Nice to know she's blowing $65 a week to cough up a lung. Sexy! 2018 what a shti year. And it's just half over.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What are you doing for exercise?

It is the natural anti depressant.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

5-HTP is a natural amino acid which has a very good track record for treating depression/anxiety. 50mg mid afternoon and then again mid evening. You can increase to 100mg doses at those times. Do not take it if you are on a Rx anti-depressant without consulting with your doc. If you're not on other meds it should be completely safe because amino acids are necessary for life.

Exercise, water, sleep are all helpful. Cut out the junk foods, cigarettes, alcohol, and other substances as much as possible. Turn off the tv! At the least, turn off the news and any other programs which have negative messages or cause you anxiety.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MThomas said:


> All quiet on the western front I guess. SD doesn't come by anymore but calls. The kids are into school starting back but communication with their mom is still splotchy. Better but still not good. The clock on the D is counting. The kids are acting like they are cool with the D. They're not good actors. WW cooked on of my favs but didn't make any overtures. WW is depressed, I'm depressed, all the kids are depressed. Maybe a reality show, The Depresseds? We have agreed on nearly 75% of the items each want. I get the boo hoos and apologies. I'm hoping all the bird shti has already been dropped. I doubt it but doesn't hurt to hope.
> 
> Went to my doctor. He recommended benzos. That is a last resort for me. Maybe some natural supplements first. Borderline high blood pressure, wonder why? WW has picked up smoking again. Nice to know she's blowing $65 a week to cough up a lung. Sexy! 2018 what a shti year. And it's just half over.


I figure for people that go through the;
- what the Hell went wrong with my marriage, it feels like it's over but why?
- Oh, cheating
- Working on the plan on how to deal with it, exposure, legal, etc
- actual divorce process (6-7 months)

And then in the cases of people like me where you throw in about 5-6 months of trying everything you can to reconcile and pull the sh$$ back together, it's straight 2 years of being f'd.

My 2017 was f'd with the affair, failed reconcile and leading up to bomb drop/exposure before New Year's. Then January-July being the divorce process in 2018. So two years I'll have to take a 'write-off' on. The affair itself doesn't really even trigger me that much anymore, it's the way I was treated throughout the process and that is bringing about a renewed sense of good anger, that helps me attach. What triggers me is when I go to a store, restaurant, driving around and I see families with their kids walking around, sitting, playing enjoying life as a full unit. What ultimately drove my being in life was the family unit, that's what made me happy, so that fact that sh$$ got blown up is still sad but also makes me pissed too. That anger energy has been pushing me to exceed what I was ever able to lift in the gym even 20 years.

I think it's going to be just as tough for you as it was me but in a different way. I felt like straight up sh$$ because I wanted to reconcile and she was like thanks but no thanks and yeah,it's because of you, so I didn't even have a big cake eater, so that was a lot of damage to my psyche that she didn't even try hard to live a double live, she only tried hard on the other side. So in reality, that made my only route after a while, the route of divorce because she wanted it, so I had no choice. With you, I think you are going to have it hard because you are going to get the feeling that she comes across as not really wanting it at this point but you know what you have to do, unfortunately.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Thor said:


> 5-HTP is a natural amino acid which has a very good track record for treating depression/anxiety. 50mg mid afternoon and then again mid evening. You can increase to 100mg doses at those times. Do not take it if you are on a Rx anti-depressant without consulting with your doc. If you're not on other meds it should be completely safe because amino acids are necessary for life.
> 
> Exercise, water, sleep are all helpful. Cut out the junk foods, cigarettes, alcohol, and other substances as much as possible. Turn off the tv! At the least, turn off the news and any other programs which have negative messages or cause you anxiety.


No lie, about the only thing I watched during the 18 months of Hell was Impractical Jokers to get some laughs, that and movies with my kids. I am now just starting to broaden my horizons. When the kids were away last weekend and I ran out of household chores and lawn projects, I fired up prime and watched a movie on there for the first time. Jack Reacher was a good choice to say the least.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Do whatever you can to shake the funk, because your kids are watching and taking their cues from YOU and how you handle this. If you mope and act like the world is ending, then your kids will do the same.. if you approach this with optimism and let them know you love them and are in this together, then that helps them on a positive path. Fake it if you have to for a while, to help pull them out. If you need meds, then get on some meds... exercise... go back to doing something that you used to love doing. The world keeps turning and your lives will go on, but you need to get it together for their sakes.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If you don’t move forward and get happy, you will eventually give in to the boohooing and pleading.

No doubt you could stay married to her (the time bomb) if you wanted, and likely have a couple of years of relative peace until she got comfortable and secure and decided you were boring and not “the one” after all and she “never really loved you like she does her new affair partner.

I’m sure she’s swearing her loyalty and how much of a mistake that she’s made. Thing is, a person either is loyal or they’re not. She’s not.

But if you go back, go back knowing what may happen. My divorce is behind me now. I can tell you that I’m glad she is behind me. I see the ex through different eyes now, and she’s not so pretty anymore. A person of little to no character. Not a horrible, mean woman on an everyday basis, Just no character.

I do miss being a complete family and seeing my kids every day. I will say that. I miss my kids badly. And I’m lucky enough to have them half the time.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

MThomas said:


> SD doesn't come by anymore but calls.


You need to prop her up, I think. She was/is your comrade-in-arms against her own mother. I hope you are seeking her out to talk about the aftermath and how you are both feeling.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> If you don’t move forward and get happy, you will eventually give in to the boohooing and pleading.
> 
> No doubt you could stay married to her (the time bomb) if you wanted, and likely have a couple of years of relative peace until she got comfortable and secure and decided you were boring and not “the one” after all and she “never really loved you like she does her new affair partner.
> 
> ...


Can't and won't happen. If I accepted her back it pretty much would give a green light to do it again. She has issues which do not involve me or any of the kids. Thank goodness the kids are older. I don't know how old yours are but only seeing them 50% would gnash at my soul. I miss the complete family too but it hasn't been such in a good while. Now the D just makes it official.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Edmund said:


> You need to prop her up, I think. She was/is your comrade-in-arms against her own mother. I hope you are seeking her out to talk about the aftermath and how you are both feeling.


SD doesn't come by because she is avoiding her mom. I know they have had words a few times. She hasn't told me exactly what was said but knows I am always there for her. Between SD and I we are still openly communicating. I try to get interaction with the two youngest when WW isn't around. Just as a starting point that I love them, always will, and always look out for their best interests. I try to do group and individual with them the best I can. The kids pretty much know everything. Sometimes they're hesitant to say things around WW or the both of us. That pisses me off. But this present situation is only temporary.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas, your kids are older and as teens start to detach and do their own thing and are soon to be on their own. Would you really be seeing them less time or just less time with along with her?


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

3Xnocharm said:


> Do whatever you can to shake the funk, because your kids are watching and taking their cues from YOU and how you handle this. If you mope and act like the world is ending, then your kids will do the same.. if you approach this with optimism and let them know you love them and are in this together, then that helps them on a positive path. Fake it if you have to for a while, to help pull them out. If you need meds, then get on some meds... exercise... go back to doing something that you used to love doing. The world keeps turning and your lives will go on, but you need to get it together for their sakes.


I'm putting up a front for the kids. They do know I'm down that everything is over but I have made it clear there is no going back with her. As long as they know that up front, they know what to expect. This is a bad situation but it was no fault of mine nor any of the kids. I'm going to try what @Thor recommended. Also I think the PB-125 will help out as well. The only time I was on meds was as a kid and I hated it. I am very anti-meds unless there is no other option possible.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

MThomas said:


> I'm putting up a front for the kids. They do know I'm down that everything is over but I have made it clear there is no going back with her. As long as they know that up front, they know what to expect. This is a bad situation but it was no fault of mine nor any of the kids. I'm going to try what @Thor recommended. Also I think the PB-125 will help out as well. The only time I was on meds was as a kid and I hated it. I am very anti-meds unless there is no other option possible.


Curious, is she still trying to say she is sorry, or has she given up now???


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Curious, is she still trying to say she is sorry, or has she given up now???


Still apologizing daily. I asked her to stop. Unless she can turn back time, I don't want to hear anything come out of her mouth but about the kids or the D.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> MThomas, your kids are older and as teens start to detach and do their own thing and are soon to be on their own. Would you really be seeing them less time or just less time with along with her?


Kids today start doing their own thing a lot earlier than when I was a teenager. 
I've always been close with all 3. The time to teach them goes by like a flash. Then you just hope and pray you instill the necessary tools for them to succeed. SD visited the house very often, most I think she's not been by is 3 days. I can see the younger 2 doing the same. Kids don't leave home anymore at 18. That term is very outdated. Might have been a true statement back in the 1980s and earlier. So many places require at least a 2 or 4 year degree now. Add in being strapped with student loan debt which is higher than a small starter home cost in the damn 1980s and they're at home several more years. Oh and people now don't have to grow up until they are 30. Well that's what social media says LOL. Thank God I grew up in an earlier time.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Kids today start doing their own thing a lot earlier than when I was a teenager.
> I've always been close with all 3. The time to teach them goes by like a flash. Then you just hope and pray you instill the necessary tools for them to succeed. SD visited the house very often, most I think she's not been by is 3 days. I can see the younger 2 doing the same. Kids don't leave home anymore at 18. That term is very outdated. Might have been a true statement back in the 1980s and earlier. So many places require at least a 2 or 4 year degree now. Add in being strapped with student loan debt which is higher than a small starter home cost in the damn 1980s and they're at home several more years. Oh and people now don't have to grow up until they are 30. Well that's what social media says LOL. Thank God I grew up in an earlier time.


Mine are in their 20s so I know. In and out. For the end of high school they were busy socially with their friends or studying for university entrance. They had time for me what they needed a ride or money. LOL. Mine went away for school but home for summer working and clowning around. Once they finished university and came back looking for work I see them quite a bit.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Mine are in their 20s so I know. In and out. For the end of high school they were busy socially with their friends or studying for university entrance. They had time for me what they needed a ride or money. LOL. Mine went away for school but home for summer working and clowning around. Once they finished university and came back looking for work I see them quite a bit.


Don't I freaking know it! I have a reflex NO when I hear them say Dad can I xxxxx. They're just finding their way. WTH is it with kids and having to set off a bomb to wake them up? One of my WWs good qualities was she would take their phones and tell them to get your duper out and play in the neighborhood. We would try and play board games at least 2x a week. All 3 still love to do that. Well we can't anymore. Hell I sure just bummed my ass out. Things change, people change. Way it is.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Anyone ever wake up and feel like you are on the Truman Show?


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## loveispatient (Jan 10, 2013)

MThomas said:


> Anyone ever wake up and feel like you are on the Truman Show?


Me. The last 13 months and counting.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

How are you doing? What is the status of the home front?


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Kamstel said:


> How are you doing? What is the status of the home front?


Thanks for asking. I received a either meltdown or a partial. Hard to tell. It changes nothing. Typical I'm sorry, I messed up shti. I refuse to listen to them so now I guess she tries messaging them. Poster boards must be next? Youngest daughter has started staying at SDs often, quite often. She had stayed with her a lot over the summer and did the Friday to Monday deal several times. I will not address this immediately but will if it becomes consistent. Son talks to WW more but nothing near before, even when they were at each other's throat. 

I told each if they do not contact me in some form each day, preferably in person, I will show up at their school in 1995 clothing and ask them to let me meet their friends LOL Works every time. SD and I talk daily, I think she is trying to cover the kids deal but told her that is not her job. Means well but that's a dad's thing. WWs parents have been communicating with my parents. Mom told me what they said a few times. "Mom that is your business, not mine. I don't need to hear it"

Several old friends from school and childhood have offered support. It means a lot to me. J/B help but they didn't know me then. Most everything is divided minus a few things. Days count down, s-l-o-w-l-y.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Whether you realize it or not, you are doing very well. Keep moving forward.

As for the kids, find reason that you can do things with the two younger ones, like take them out to dinner.

Have you asked the stbxw when she will be moving out? Ask her how her search for a new place is going, or is she going to move back to her parents? Tell her that even her daughter doesn’t want to be here with her living here. Tell her to think of what is best for her children. It would be best for her to move out as quickly as possible


Good luck and stay strong

(And look out for poster boards being used to hit him)


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

MThomas said:


> Don't I freaking know it! I have a reflex NO when I hear them say Dad can I xxxxx. They're just finding their way. WTH is it with kids and having to set off a bomb to wake them up? One of my WWs good qualities was she would take their phones and tell them to get your duper out and play in the neighborhood. We would try and play board games at least 2x a week. All 3 still love to do that. Well we can't anymore. Hell I sure just bummed my ass out. Things change, people change. Way it is.


Board games are when they thought life was perfect and the world was good.


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

Just checking in!

How are things going?


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Still here. Nothing has changed unless you count WW still being nice but not the full court press. WW moved out and the 2 kids returned. SD is still playing go between. WW and SD are talking and that is stretching it. Nothing much more to say. I've been scoping gals recently. No doubt I've lost my touch but shouldn't take long to be back in the game. Clock is ticking. Just over a month to go. Freedom is in my grasp.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Glad to hear you are doing well, Brother. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Just checking in on you. How are you doing?

Do you have a date when everything will be finalized?

Hope you and the kids are doing well.

Hang in there and be strong


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It's funny how time brings clarity. Sorry you had to endure this but you'll be fine. You have a good outlook.

IMO it's better than having to live that **** long term.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I don't know how I missed this thread. 

You've done well with the crappy circumstances! 

Stay on course - it will get better!

Your exposure sounds a bit like what I did to my cheating exH... but I took things a few steps further.

Had all the locks changed and told him he wasn't coming home.

Had all the credit cards closed when he was in transport coming home from his weekend with his OW.

Moved all available money and assets that weekend into my name only. ��

When he came to pick up his clothes a few days later I had his best friend with me - standing guard for ME - so he would behave... and to have someone to protect me. ExH still acted like a child - a little brat that was mad he got caught. His friend was pissed he was acting like a jerk and told him so.

My list goes on and on.

I'm proud of myself that I held it together during those tough months. Thirteen years ago now - things do get better.

Stay strong. My kids are great to me and we are very close. Not so much with him - they don't trust him and he's very unreliable.

It sucks - but he's not the man I thought he was - never was... he was just a good liar.

I'm never sorry I got out. Was with him 27 years... what took me so long? I needed to get smart - it took courage and strength too. But once I was pissed off I knew I was never going back. I gotta say - I got great pleasure in blowing up his entire world - I didn't deserve to be cheated on - I treated him like gold.

One thing I made him do in the divorce agreement was to carry a hefty life ins policy paid to me if he dies. That's insurance for my spousal support that would end. Maybe have your wife agree to a policy for you. It's generally not considered but will be if you ask for it. Lol

He's a spoiled, entitled narcissist. So glad I'm not married to him anymore! It's a freedom I never knew was possible! It's like I was in jail for 27 years and didn't know it.

Freedom! It's worth it!


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## irish925 (May 3, 2018)

Wonder how MT is doing??? 

Hope all is well, per his comments divorce should be happening really soon...

GOOD LUCK MT!!!!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Just checking in on you, brother.

How goes it?


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

I'm still alive. I haven't posted in awhile for several reasons. Course one was I wanted to mourn everything in my own way. Raising 2 kids takes away much time. The divorce was final. It was final during the holidays. BTW the holidays this year sucked squirrel pizz. It wasn't bad as it sounds but it wasn't like those I recall in daydreams.

I had the kids Thanksgiving until mid-day, XW rest of day. They returned home that night. I spent Christmas Eve with them. Was special in a way. Was told I would feel that. It was great having all 3 kids on each holiday. XW came to get the younger 2 Christmas Day. They returned that night. The younger kids were given the choice of returning home or staying overnight. Each time they wanted to come home.

I received the house in the divorce but not without buying out her share. I got a helluva deal in the buyout. XW can come to the house ONLY if she is invited over by the kids. Her stay would also be limited.

We never agreed fully on who got what but I did not want that to drag the divorce out any further. Several things she claimed should be hers, she has returned to me. XW has been nothing but cordial and flexible. She had 2 major meltdowns right before and after the divorce. I know it was not the nicest thing to do but I pulled the curtains back and laughed at her in the yard.

Fact remains she was so unhappy, wanted a fix, hoped it could be an exit affair, never thought she would be caught. Made thy bed, lie in it. The kids are slowly getting back to talking terms with her. SD still refuses to speak to her. They had a knock down drag out 'catfight' not long before Christmas.

XW and me talk more than they do LOL But thats their relationship. SD and I are still in daily contact. I got the 3rd degree when she learned I had a date. Speaking of dating, weird as #$%#. 

Just wanted to give an update.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you ever tell your wife you were going to divorce her hateful highness before you even found out she was cheating because of how awful she was to the kids and you?


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> Did you ever tell your wife you were going to divorce her hateful highness before you even found out she was cheating because of how awful she was to the kids and you?


We had already discussed a divorce. My countdown was about up when SD discovered the phone.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Glad you are doing well MT, thanks for sharing the update!


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I just read your thread. I think what your really seeing is she knows in her heart why she dumped that guy in the first place. You were the better choice and she knows that. Sadly like a lot of people she got complacent and instead of trying to work out with you the things that were going on with her she did like most other cheaters do and look to others for that interaction. Maybe partly fueled by some resentment or like you stated earlier she probably did have some child hood issues. Sounds also like in her mind she really probably thought you would forgive her or she would be off in the sunset with her OM. She didn't count that it might turn out this way. Most cheaters don't. My xW is still a serial cheater. We have been divorced for almost 12 years and our kids really wont have much to do with her. She lied to them for years stating she never cheated. Well they say first hand her cheating on her OM and leaving him for another guy. That pretty much changed everything for them. It wasn't so much a issue with my son but my daughter thought her mom would not do that to me. She sadly came to realize the truth and we have been a lot closer since. 

I don't blame you at all for not giving her a second chance. Its my biggest mistake with my xW. I was sure I would have walked out that door when she cheated on me the first time and sadly I let her mom get into my head that this was just a one time deal and I had to support her daughter and her mental issues. I was so stupid to have stayed as long as I did. 

Good for you for standing up for yourself. I know its sad looking back but I can guarantee you its nothing like the view of looking back if you had given in and she cheated on you again. I personally now am a firm believer that once a cheater always a cheater. 

Thanks for sharing your story with us. It sure helps make me feel better about this stuff. I wished that cheaters would have to register somewhere so good people didn't have to deal with them. It would be a great way to help people from cheating in the first place if they knew they would be publicly shamed. 

Clay


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

MThomas said:


> I'm still alive. I haven't posted in awhile for several reasons. Course one was I wanted to mourn everything in my own way. Raising 2 kids takes away much time. The divorce was final. It was final during the holidays. BTW the holidays this year sucked squirrel pizz. It wasn't bad as it sounds but it wasn't like those I recall in daydreams.
> 
> I had the kids Thanksgiving until mid-day, XW rest of day. They returned home that night. I spent Christmas Eve with them. Was special in a way. Was told I would feel that. It was great having all 3 kids on each holiday. XW came to get the younger 2 Christmas Day. They returned that night. The younger kids were given the choice of returning home or staying overnight. Each time they wanted to come home.
> 
> ...


This all sounds "normal" for the situation you're in.

Stay the course brother.

DO NOT RUSH into anything.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@MThomas and she told her OW that her children were ugly in comparison to the children she'd have made with him? 

Gee! Thanks, love! 

Sorry, but your entry for mother of the decade was rejected by the adjudication panel. >


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

Thought an update was in order. School year is about to end and custody will be a hassle. XW has been really good about spending time with the kids. I know it sounds weird but I guess Im proud of her. She's finally started talking to SD. Maybe one day things will return to some form of normalcy. 

Dating at least at my age really sucks. Broken people everywhere you look. Still bitter, pissed off, angry. A complete downer to even be around. Course I saw a really beautiful gal leaving a building downtown and I almost approached her. 20 years ago I would have. Then I remembered my age. Sigh


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

MThomas said:


> Dating at least at my age really sucks. Broken people everywhere you look. Still bitter, pissed off, angry. A complete downer to even be around. Course I saw a really beautiful gal leaving a building downtown and I almost approached her. 20 years ago I would have. Then I remembered my age. Sigh


Listen, I know that you probably will not listen, but just try for a second. 

At one level, the things you are saying about dating are true. OK, a lot of pissed off, bitter people, woman in your case, that probably were cheated on or married to an asshat like you were, all kinds of issues. 

However, I promise that there are some good women out there that are looking for a guys just like you, you just have to meet them. 

And I cant remember but you are kind of young, 40 something? I think? Dude, you have time. 

Also, remember, you are not looking for the love of your life, and except for being a good guy, you don't owe any of them anything. 

If it does not feel right, or it is not good, just be straight and say, "listen, I am just not feeling this right now, so I am going to pull out". 

They may get upset, or they may not care, or anywhere in between. 

What I am saying is that, while being a good guy, you have to take your time and put your needs first. 

But don't get in the bitter, mindset, it is a great big wonderful world out there and it will happen when it happens...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Why is custody going to be a hassle? 

And dating sucks at every age, dont get down on yourself because you arent 25 any more! Just approach the whole endeavor with realistic expectations and stick to your values.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why is custody going to be a hassle?
> 
> And dating sucks at every age, dont get down on yourself because you arent 25 any more! Just approach the whole endeavor with realistic expectations and stick to your values.


I meant to say child swap. I am wanting a week with me, week with her. She wants the 3 day and 4 day.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Listen, I know that you probably will not listen, but just try for a second.
> 
> At one level, the things you are saying about dating are true. OK, a lot of pissed off, bitter people, woman in your case, that probably were cheated on or married to an asshat like you were, all kinds of issues.
> 
> ...


I know there are good ones out there. They're just harder to find now. Patience is a must.

But I'm not looking for a forever person, just to casual date. Getting FWB is easy. That has been my past

objective. I went too long with little or none. Now that my beak is wet I guess I am wanting to

start to date casual. I damn sure don't want anything heavy for awhile.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Dating for you should be fairly easy then, if you are only looking for something casual instead of commitment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Man, let me tell you, I deal with a great number of clients. I see each personally more than once a year. I have some great women as clients. Accomplished, intelligent, some divorced, some single, all ages. Yup there are some not so attractive in more ways than one, but I know there are great people out there. You went through a period where she turned you into an enemy, then having an EA was an extreme. She needed to blow up her world. She has done it. She is now no longer your concern. Forget the anger. There are great people out there,but you are still an open wound. Give yourself time, and work on letting it go. I also represent a good number of divorced and widowed men. Same story. You heal. Get past it. Find someone worthy of you. Nice story: for years I represented a lovely professional woman. Her previous marriage ended, due to physical abuse. She was on her own for a number of years. I also represent a man who is a giant in his profession, has written a number of books (I own one, I have a bare understanding of his subject). He too was betrayed, his first marriage ended acrimoniously. They were seeing each other on a professional basis. She told me that he asked her if it would violate her professional ethics if he asked her out for dinner. I am now doing spousal tax returns. It happens. PS, They are in their mid-sixties.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MThomas said:


> Dating at least at my age really sucks. Broken people everywhere you look. Still bitter, pissed off, angry. A complete downer to even be around. Course I saw a really beautiful gal leaving a building downtown and I almost approached her. 20 years ago I would have. Then I remembered my age. Sigh





MThomas said:


> I know there are good ones out there. They're just harder to find now. Patience is a must.
> 
> But I'm not looking for a forever person, just to casual date. Getting FWB is easy. That has been my past objective. I went too long with little or none. Now that my beak is wet I guess I am wanting to start to date casual. I damn sure don't want anything heavy for awhile.


I'm curious too. What is it about dating that sucks? Is it that your having a time finding a woman interested in casually dating you? Are they all more interested in something serious? I'm not sure why you would need to find a "good" woman for a casual dating relationship?


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