# New here...WS told me that the real truth will kill me. Serial cheater



## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

Hello everyone, I'm new to the board. 

I apologize in advance if my story turns into a novel. My WS is a serial cheater, our union has been plagued with major infidelity on his part. long term, short term affairs, dozens of one night stands , possible outside kids. I'm still here faithfully by his side waiting and praying for change. 

HISTORY

I met my WS on an adult site over a decade ago. Though i didn't live the adult site lifestyle, I signed up. I eventually started chatting with WS on and off. Eventually we met IRL months later. First date was GREAT. Talked for hours. Had many more AWESOME dates after that. WS commented that he realized i was not the adult hook kind of girl. He never suggested one night stand etc. We began dating , two years went by. HOWEVER, looking back at what i know NOW. The problems we are currently having was present from day 1. I fell in love with a serial cheater - had no idea at the time. After i met him, i never returned to dating sites. Sadly, he never left them behind. 

Back in dating days, he was only available at odd hours, rarely weekends, never holidays, mid afternoon etc. We spoke mostly via e-mail and late at night on phone. I NOW know that that was the behavior of a person married ,committed in a relationship to someone else, or had a live in partner. He was engaged. He left the lady to be with me. I NOW know i was the mistress (found this out about a month ago) that wrecked a relationship by getting pregnant with our first kiddo. I had no idea ! Enters KARMA...

Months later we moved in together. Got married three weeks before i delivered baby. We had a civil wedding. Once married he took total control over ALL FINANCES. No shared accounts, I had no access to any money, We had one income as we both agreed i would be a homemaker. Problems started with him always working late, blamed his lateness on co-worker celebrations ie it was someones birthday, retirement etc...I NOW know that was a lie he was out whoring with anything that wore a shirt. When home, he spent most his free time on the computer. This is where i starting finding internet history full of porn, a gazillion e-mail handles, he would accidentally leave open various adult sites he was involved with. I saw his profiles - sex ads, nude pictures etc. would look at a lot of porn. His excuse was always ..oh it was an old page. I am a very calm gentle person. So i wasn't the person to curse and throw him out. These "accidents" would always end up with make up sex.

Speaking of sex, once married the wild passionate honey moon type of sex faded quickly. As much as we both loved sex, he just wasn't that interested and STILL isn't. I NOW know, he was well "fed" outside of our union. I felt like i was always the one requesting. I could never wrap my head around that one. Fast forwarding a few years later and birth of more kids. Felt like we where growing apart. Felt like WS ignored me. He would come home, eat dinner, small talk and head to the computer. Late nights at office, had to work OT, had to work weekends started becoming frequent. 

Two years ago is when I officially started digging into his life and making sense of the cheating son of a ***** i was married to. With digging (in his car aka safety deposit box) i started finding receipts for condoms, various gifts receipts that didn't make it home to me, restaurant receipts etc. WS has always controlled finances so receipts was my only way of knowing what was spent. I would have to ask WS for money. I would always hear.. Nope no money. sorry not today etc?? Can't tell you how many times i had to go to store with spare change i found around the house. WS has a decent job. Made more than enough money. We where not paycheck to paycheck. However, i started finding large sums of cash hidden in his home office or clothes drawers. 

One day i stumble across his yahoo messanger account that he didn't shut down. He was outside playing with our kids. To my shock he was chatting with his MISTRESS. I read a few pages of intimate details, sex, gifts, I WISHED I PRINTED THIS STUFF OUT. I love you's etc. I stormed out of the office and starting screaming. I emotionally died that day. He ran into the house and realized that he left the yahoo messages open. he dived to disconnect the computer. I screamed at him demanding to tell me what the hell and who the hell was that. He replied that it's a lady that he text with. Nothing happened BLAH BLAH BLAH. I read all the details - this was a long term affair. We didn't talk about it again. No explanation NOTHING. Just make up sex that night. Ever since then i kept stumbling across web sites, e-mails etc, i started searching his car at night. 

He has never given me a key to his car. His car was like a safety deposit box. I found bags of mail. After 9 years of marriage , most of his mail (Bills) still goes to his mom's house. i found even more receipts. Worst offense was a condom receipt. The night i found that i stormed up into our bedroom. Woke him up and asked him about it. He replied he bought it for us. SMH. (this condom receipt will later be a big clue) Every time i tried to put my foot down. He would get angry and non responsive. To this day has never ever offered a real apology. Script would turn around with me apologizing to him. CRAZY. Finally he told me that he was guilty of sexting and flirting with woman. I knew this was a lie. He was having constant sex outside our union. He would come home in different clothes, smelling fresh from a shower, underwear reaking of perfume, started not eating the dinner i cooked, he would say he was full, would come home and crash on the sofa TIRED. Lots of other details i will spare yall. 

Finally fast forward to this year, our marriage is a MESS. It always has been. I have arrived to the breaking point. Due to stress i became ill physically. Our fiances starting going downhill. We had money for nothing. We are pretty frugal people. But everything was cut. I would question him where is the money going? He wouldn't reply. No communication in the marriage. Has always been like that. About two months ago my car ran out of gas. I had no money. We had no joint accounts. he would REFUSED to add me to any. I had to walk to store with three kids in toe to use phone to call towing company. When i arrived home. I called him at work SCREAMING that he HAS to add me to the checking account. This is craziness i couldn't live like that any more. He dragged it out a few days and reluctantly added me to his checking account. What he didn't realize was that now that i was on his account. I was able to view 7 years worth of bank statements. 

I couldn't believe what my eyes saw. Monthly, HUGE cash withdraws, fancy restaurant purchases , etc. Thousands of dollars fleeing out of our household. I also started finding gas purchases /fast food purchases , alcohol purchases in various cities. I started thinking back at all the times he was late coming home, weekends etc. The dates matched up with his bank statements. I started digging further. One night i gutted his car and started ripping thru bags of mail. I found credit card statements FILLED with hotel purchases , 1 day stays. DOZENS AND DOZENS, found purchases for all these woman. I started matching the credit card statements with bank statements. I discovered that he was taking days off of work to HAVE SEX with various people. He trained me well not to call his job always his cell. I was in the dark. 

His cell phone HAS ALWAYS BEEN a third arm and never left his sight. I would sometimes catch it open and record all incoming and outgoing calls. I started calling them. Nothing but women answering the calls. I started talking to a few of them. Simply how did you know my husband. Almost all replied OMG had no idea he was married, said he was divorced, single etc. Most called him by a different name. All had sexual relations with him. I asked some of them if they used protection NOPE! Most where apologetic. Didn't know

Within the last few months i've stopped making him smart. I no longer tell him what i found. WHY THE HECK AM I SILL HERE????? I've been making copies and mailing them to a friend. About a month ago is when the "you have been caught" time to fess out convos start up. This fake marriage can't continue anymore. I've been depressed for a while..but last months have been dark. Our household is a wreck. I'm not functioning anymore. we have 3 young kids. All he tells me is that he is sorry. he loves me and wants to make his family happy. Nothing more. Won't sincerely apologize, will sit on sofa and just stare at me. Then get annoyed with me "there you go again" Told me i was crazy a few times after telling him what i found. He threatened to leave twice. I guess the truth hurts. 

He is NOT a gift giver and no longer has never had interest in date nights etc with me. I received nothing this year for my birthday, mother's day or anniversary last month. For our anniversary, he handed me a card and i broke down in tears. He told me he had no money for a gift. I sobbed on the kitchen floor. He told me i was materialistic for crying . He walked off. I NOW know it was a trigger. I thought back of all the receipts i've found of gifts he bought impressing woman and all i get was a card wrapped in a walmart bag. 

Last week, after 9 years of crap marriage i finally put my foot down. Told him if he wants to save marriage - We have to go to counseling, get STD check, that he has to start talking to me, telling me the truth. I KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING. He has finally agreed to counseling (i'm still trying to find one) and he went to Dr for check up and blood work. He still hasn't did lab work as yet. As for telling me the truth. Last night he told me THAT THE REAL TRUTH WILL KILL ME he has nothing to say about it. Stop bringing it up. He said he doesn't think he will cooperate with counseling. I replied well the not knowing may kill me first. He has to start talking so healing can begin. He excused himself. walked away from convo and went to bed. WHY AM I STILL HERE WITH THIS MAN?

So glad i found this group. Now can someone please talk some sense into me. Why can't i see this marriage for what it is? I should of filed for divorce years ago. BUT IM STILL HERE. Waiting and praying for change. I


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

I am speechless. I am sorry but your H is beyond saving. He is more annoyed that you have found out about his other life. What a horrendous man!!!

I know you love him but he isn't deserving of you. You should have left him a long time ago. Do it now before you waste more years.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

beautifuldreamer,

I read your story, and I can say that I'm _exhausted_ from reading it! But I'm glad you wrote it. 

Believe it or not, you just helped me toward a step closer to healing. The day my ex told me about his wayward ways, it was 'only' an emotional affair. But as I was reading your story, I kept hearing ex's words in my head, right after he confessed: "There's a lot about me you don't know..." 

I had visions of prostitutes (he's used them before) or doing some online 'stuff'. I wouldn't be surprised if he was into porn. But I didn't need to know. I just posted about 'snooping' a few days ago, and I only snooped ONCE within 48 hours after he confessed. I didn't even think to look for more. 

I couldn't imagine how I'd feel if I found out that there was more. And after reading what you've written, I can honestly say that for the first time in 18 months, I'm actually *grateful* that I _ONLY_ learned _as little _as I did. It was enough for me to leave and never look back.

You're in the early stages of discovery. There will be others along who can give you guidance that will help you to make a decision. 

I'm looking forward to seeing life turn around so that all of your "beautifuldreams" come true.

Vega


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here's the truth... counseling will not help and you know it. 

Your husband is not 'just' a cheater. He's mentally ill. No one in their right mind would live do what he has done. It would take him years, decades, to change his ways... and that is contingent on him wanting to change and him being willing to do the hard work. If he did this and you stayed with him.. you will become his care taker.. his mommy. He's broken. 

What you have gone through is similar to my marriage... only I caught him in the second year. The main difference is that most of my husbands activity was online. He did have flings with women when he'd travel... some times meeting one of his online girlfriends. Some times meeting local women.

All of the women thought that he was in love with them, did not know he was married and thought that they were going to have a long term relationship with him.

I felt that I had to destroy his relationships with the women. So I make a zip file with all of the emails, chats, etc that I could find. Then I emailed it to every one of them. That way every one of them got to see that he told all the others the same thing. He's write one love poem and send it to all of them. Well it worked. They all disappeared.

Like your husband, he'd give them gifts for special days. .. I got none. He spent time with them but spent none with me. 

You are still with him because he has destroyed you. Now it's up to you to find the strength to leave. Look at where you are today. What kind of condition do you think you will be in a year from now? 5 years from now?


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## Tiberius (Mar 22, 2012)

Beautiful dreamer, stop dreaming that this man will ever change, there is no hope until hell freezes over.

I was getting really mad reading all you have written, the way he treated you over the years. Please understand this:

-this man met you on a dating site for adults never stopped meeting women for sex- he has a serous sex addiction problem
-he is a control freak who did not give you money, thus made you totally co-dependent on him
-he is a cheater of the worst kind, not even Sigmund Freud can explain such appalling, sick behaviour
-he treated all his w****s well, but you, his wife and the mother of his children was treated as dirt
-he risked your life by exposing you to STD's

My question to you is-why do you not respect yourself? Have you suffered in the past with abandonment and abuse issues? Why do you have this victim mentality?

The first thing I can suggest is to go and have some councelling for yourself, you need to find strength inside you to leave this sham of a marriage and this man who is a despicable and deploring human being that will never change.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Stop and think for a minute. Do you really love your husband? You do not know who your husband is . It's only been the last 2 years that you stated to find out. And now he says that it would kill you if you knew the whole truth. You do not know this man. He has only shown you the bit he wants you to see. Unfortunately for him you are one smart cookie and you figured much of it out. 

Who do you love? Not who he really is. I think you love the man you thought he could be. The man you thought you married.

Stop and think about what you have found out. Think of all the horrible things you know he's done. Let your imagination wonder a to what it is that would kill you if you knew... do you love THAT person? 

Also, he actions are every extreme. His level of lying is profound and deeply disturbing. As bad as what my husband did.. my husband's actions were child's play compared to what you say yours has one. 

When he tells you that if you really knew what he has done it would kill you, BELIEVE HIM. There is a possibility that he was not just winning and dinning women for the adventure and sex. There could re rapes and other horrific behavior. You might think I'm going over board... but BELIEVE HIM when he says that he has done horrible things that would kill you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yea I'm posting a lot because your story has ahold of me...

So the thing is why don't you leave? I think that you do not have a plan. Make a plan. Then every day work towards your plan. And one day you will have accomplished it and you will be free from this hell.

You have been doing the right things... gathering evidence so you know what is going on. Saving that evidence. Gathering financial information. I hope you are saving that as well.

Make sure you download all of the bank statements. Get copies of every financial and personal bit of info you find in the house, his car, etc.

You say that you are emailing things to your friend. An alternative way to do this is to get an account on www.dropbox.com. They provide free online storage up to some limit. after that you pay. But you probably just need the free storage amount. 

YOU can upload your files to the dropbox. Your fiend can also have the login and she can access the, download them into the dropbox folder on her computer. But this way you are sending out a lot of emails. And you can access the files from any place that has internet access.

Do a search online for domestic abuse exit plan or safety plan. (yes you are seriously emotionally abused.) They will tell you a lot of what you need to do. I'll put a few things here that need to be stressed.

Finances: Open a bank account in your name only. preferably in a different bank from the on he uses. User another address, like your friends or rent a post office box. You can open one with about $25. Start stashing money in it. If all you can get is $20, $40 at a time do it. Since you have access to his account now get a bit of cash with every transaction you do. Deposit it.

On the day you leave him, withdraw 75% of everything in joint accounts and put them in your account. You have 3 children to take care of.

Find a domestic abuse support organization near you start counseling. You will need the support they can give. Ask them if they can refer to you either legal aid or to attorneys who do work pro bono. Usually the attorneys will ask the court for their bills to be paid from community income/assets. 

Get the attorney to file for divorce with an interim custody/time-share plan, child support and spousal support. 

If you can file based on adultery , do, you will get a better settlement. Plus with his history you may be able to force supervised visitation for him.

If you want to end this marriage, the folks here, my self included can help you come up with your exit plan and support you thought working through it.

I know I am giving you a lot that you did not ask for. But I get that you are frozen ... in shock.. been there done that. So I'm trying to give you that hand up to get you moving to a healthier place. If you decide you do not want to take this advice, it's you life. but I feel that I have to offer it.


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

I just wanted to say thank you for the replies. I'm just staring at my computer screen. I'm am really that far gone. I never thought of my self as a victim of domestic violence. But I am. Really starting to wonder what did I do wrong in life to deserve this. I'm such a caring person. Have NEVER EVER strayed from my husband. For the last 9 years ive been a homemaker. Lovingly taking care of my kids and H. I think of all the sacrifices ive made. Trying to save and cut cost in our ousehold. While he has spent $$$$$ of dollars has MAXED all his credit cards


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

Paying for his double life. While I'm scrambling to find change to buy a loaf of bread and a box of maxi pads. I broke down in the grocery store line. Counting change.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Please, for your own sanity - get out. However you do it, just go.


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

beautifuldreamer said:


> I just wanted to say thank you for the replies. I'm just staring at my computer screen. I'm am really that far gone. I never thought of my self as a victim of domestic violence. But I am. Really starting to wonder what did I do wrong in life to deserve this. I'm such a caring person. Have NEVER EVER strayed from my husband. For the last 9 years ive been a homemaker. Lovingly taking care of my kids and H. I think of all the sacrifices ive made. Trying to save and cut cost in our ousehold. While he has spent $$$$$ of dollars has MAXED all his credit cards


OP I understand your shock as we all felt this when our partners cheated on us. My partner cheated on me three weeks after our big engagement party. Go figure.

You will never understand a cheaters mind because you are not one of them. You are a person of integrity.

I know you are in a difficult situation but please think of making an exit. You need to start finding some inner power and detach yourself away from this man.


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

beautifuldreamer said:


> Paying for his double life. While I'm scrambling to find change to buy a loaf of bread and a box of maxi pads. I broke down in the grocery store line. Counting change.


That's so shocking!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

wow,

ok now you have woken up to who he really is. get pi$$ed and take action.

pick up the phone and call an attorney. It will be difficult, you will feel unsure of your self but push through thoese feeling and know in your heart its the right thing to do. keep this all seceret act like everything is ok. 

and make exit plan.


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## MambaZee (Aug 6, 2013)

You've gotten some great advice so far. Please take it! This scumbag doesn't deserve anything else of you, NOTHING. I hope you're making an exit plan right this minute. Please leave that POS. I don't see a marriage worth saving here since your H never treated it as a marriage.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

My ex, father of my kids, had a bit of a double life. Not a patch on your husbands though! He skimmed the bank account for years. Watching me scrimp and panic over every bill. Panicking with the onset of winter and both kids needing a new winter coat at the same time. Dreading them both needing new shoes at the same time. Like you, he never bought me birthday presents, Christmas presents. For my 30th he bought me a washing basket.

His OW was cocaine. I never knew about her. Not til the end when I found the money he took and he admitted to me. I threw him out. Changed the locks. Best thing I ever did.

He manipulated me for years. Whenever I took an issue to him I left the 'discussion' wondering how he could stay with someone as awful as me. I felt awful about the way I made everyone around me so miserable. I was selfish to be so unhappy. 

It took me 2 years after our split to realise the extent at which he manipulated me. Even then I didn't get it fully...I met someone 2 years after we split who was highly manipulative, mentally abusive, cheating. 

It was at this point I read articles on manipulative behaviour, projection. I came here and read many stories all with the same theme. Now I see manipulative behaviour instantly. I can spot it. I can see it for what it is. And I detest it. 

I suggest you start reading yourself. This will help you spot it when he does it. This will help you read him better. It will open your eyes. And it will give you great strength. 

I am so happy to see you have got to a point where you need to change your situation. I am not sure that trying to change him will help you though. 

I suggest you get out of the marriage and if he truly wants to change you will see him do it while you get instantly stronger without him. Don't stay. Do it for you and for your kids. Your kids will look up to him and eventually emulate him. It is human nature. Get out and try to reverse this. Minimise the damage now while you can.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

BD, I read, re-read and read again. Okay hon if you are asking for some advise, you will receive it from me and everyone else here. This is probably the worst serial story I've heard yet. For your mental and physical well being, not to mention your child welfare, you need to walk away. I don't know your age, late twenties early thirties. You are still young enough to begin again. I am living proof, besides others here, that you can start again at an older age. 
I'm sorry but he will not change, no matter how much love you give and counseling you go through. Walk away, get healthy, mentally and physically. Start living a good life. There are plenty of guys out there, even if you have a child that will give you the love, attention caring, sharing etc.. that you deserve. A good person with a pure heart that isn't controlling, manipulative, borderline personality disorder having problem, would go far in my book. Good luck to you. Keep coming here, we will help you through this. It will get better, but it will take some time. Again, walk, do this for you, your little one and your future.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

I usually vote for reconciliation...but honey...your man is sick in the head. You need to call the meanest divorce lawyer you can and take him for everything his skanky @ss is worth. I pray you are in an "at fault" state...pray pray pray. 

You can not ever change him. He will cheat on you until the day he dies. Literally. You are wasted on him. He doesn't love you. He doesn't even like you. You are a piece of sh*t legally bound woman he has at home. He only loves himself and the skank he is banging at that moment. 

Run as far away from this man as you can.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

You need to start planning to take care of yourself and your kids. You need to be very careful about how you go about this.

The way your sex-addicted, Madonna-Wh0re complex having, serial cheater husband has handled money in your marriage is very, very controlling. He is doing so because he has a leash and collar on you financially. He isn’t in a position where his threats to leave should have impact on you given all he is done, yet, it does because you don’t have money to support yourself or your kids.

One thing I'd do is start saving money any way you can. I know you want to be a SAHM but being a SAHM is keeping you trapped in this situation. Until, unless you get a job, one thing I'd do is start taking out small sums of money when doing debit purchases. Get cashback and start stowing away money somewhere safe. Even if you can only take out an extra $20.00 when you go to get groceries/go department store shopping etc, take it out and put it somewhere safe to start building a savings for you and the kids.

I believe Elegirl has given you some very smart advice. She's one of the veterans on this board and posts more than I do, so I'd give her a listening to if I were you. I would only add to that, that you need to start building a safety net for yourself so you can leave this marriage. I’m sorry to say but there is nothing to hold on to here. Your husband isn’t going to change. He has said so himself right here: (read what you wrote below especially the bolded/enlarged parts).



> Last week, after 9 years of crap marriage i finally put my foot down. Told him if he wants to save marriage - We have to go to counseling, get STD check, that he has to start talking to me, telling me the truth. I KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING. He has finally agreed to counseling (i'm still trying to find one) and he went to Dr for check up and blood work. *He still hasn't did lab work as yet*. As for telling me the truth. *Last night he told me *THAT THE REAL TRUTH WILL KILL ME *he has nothing to say about it*. Stop bringing it up.* He said he doesn't think he will cooperate with counseling.* I replied well the not knowing may kill me first. He has to start talking so healing can begin. *He excused himself. walked away from convo and went to bed.* WHY AM I STILL HERE WITH THIS MAN?


The text in bold might be the only truthful thing he's said to you. I hate to be harsh but there it is. He has zero remorse for the hell he has put/is putting you through - you said it yourself that he gets angry, shuts down, walks away, threatens to leave you and blames you when you confront him or tell him your feelings. Those are not the actions of a man that cares, loves, values, respects you, understands or wants to change.

I am so glad you found this group, and am so sorry for your situation and that you have to be here. But this is a great group and people have been there and we care. I hope that you find the strength and support through us to begin doing what you need to do, to carve out a happy life for you and your children and free yourself from this toxic, abusive marriage. Big hugs for you.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Here is my advice.

1) Play dumb wife/ make up time.
2) Get your own secret safe deposit box.
3) Start stashing records and money in said safe box.
4) Might I ask what state you are in? It sometimes matters
5) Get a few ducks in a row then file divorce. This is one of the most extreme cases I have heard here and that IS SAYING SOMETHING!
6) RUN FOREST RUN!
7) Once on somewhat an even keel get some IC. Cmon you met him on an adult site for crying out loud. GET THAT FIXED!
8) erase browser history you have ever been on TAM

Yea its all self inflicted but we are gonna help you go forward, not backward.

GPS his car if you can. That way you know when he is close to coming home. Get one of the ones that plugs into the OBD2 port.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

As the soon to be ex-wife of a serial cheater myself, I must say your story is probably the worst I've heard. You should definitely believe him when he says the real truth would kill you. He could be a serial rapist, a serial killer, a pedophile, into guys or pets or farm animals, or maybe just married to four other women in three other states. But even without knowing the "real truth" you know enough that you should have been gone yesterday. He's broken. You cannot fix him. He won't fix himself because he doesn't think there's anything wrong with him.

Now, you may be thinking to yourself, "this isn't the man I married." The problem with that is that this is _exactly_ the man you married. And the man he is now is the man he will be 10, 20, 30 years from now. This is who he is. 

Hope won't make this better. Leaving will. 

And what have you been praying for? That he changes? That he stops? Perhaps you should consider that your prayer has been answered, though not in the way you had hoped it would be. Perhaps the way your prayer has been answered is that you've been granted the knowledge of who he really is, so that you can see that he will not stop and he will not change. You can keep praying for magical salvation from this situation, or you can take the gift of insight you've been given and use it to save yourself.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Here is my advice.
> 
> 1) Play dumb wife/ make up time.
> 2) Get your own secret safe deposit box.
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

If you can get him to leave the house, once you've made a plan - do it. You shouldn't have to be the one to leave. 

You will need to get him physically out of your day-to-day life though so you can detach from him. You have been manipulated and he has a real hold on you, that is why you're still there.

I would also suggest individual therapy for yourself. You need to start healing you. Over time you will look back and realize just how crazy this all is/was. There is something here called the 180, I would read it. You need to go dark and detach. Not as a ploy to get him to change but to create an invisible bubble around you, to keep you emotionally safe and so you can begin to detach and heal. 

Also, if you haven't already done so - inform your family doctor about what is going on. I don't mean to offend you but you may want to take an anti-depressant so you can function better during this time. (I only suggest this because I ended up having to take one and it has helped me tremendously) to do what I needed to do for myself and my kids. Your doctor may also know about some resources available in your area (mine did).

Seems frivolous, but go to your public library too and get some books on emotional abuse, sex addiction, affairs etc. to help you understand and process what you are going through between counseling sessions.

My situation wasn't nearly as bad as yours but twobooks that have helped me, in terms of the emotional abuse are: 

Why Does He Do That, Lundy Bancroft

Nasty Men, Jay Carter


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

This is a time for action. You have been given good advice. Use it to help you decide the best course of action for your future. 

Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

beautifuldreamer said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new to the board.
> 
> I apologize in advance if my story turns into a novel. My WS is a serial cheater, our union has been plagued with major infidelity on his part. long term, short term affairs, dozens of one night stands , possible outside kids. I'm still here faithfully by his side waiting and praying for change.
> 
> ...


because you're a beautiful dreamer. It's time for reality though. His responses tell you he's not going to change. So your choice is simple. Live in an open marriage. Tell him, he can go do whoever he wants and you're going to do the same. Or divorce and understand you kept hoping for the best but got the worst. 

Look at yourself in the mirror and ask "what am I worth?" Go to individual counseling and put this scumbag behind you. You're DREAM of what your husband is and what he TRULY is are different.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Why in the heck did you stay in this relationship so long? You don't have just a smoking gun you have a completely stocked military grade armory of info pointing to the fact that this man is a conartist. He isn't just a cheater. You need to get ever bit of evidence locked away and file now. Stop waiting you have every thing you need to show he is unfaithful. You have everything to show that he has neglected the family as well. Forcing you to go without money in order to hide his secrets will not go over will in any court.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

What does he do for a living? If you divorce, and you must, can he flee? Do you have any relationship with his family?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

OP I am going to be harsh but its the truth.
Your man is just using you. He doesn't want to commit to anyone. He stays married to you because you are just his security blanket to come home to after his partying. 

He needs to live on his own because he lives the life of a bachelor man but he is too [email protected]@t to do that so he would rather be a cake eater. Pathetic.

You need to take control of your life today because this is not love. Get your self respect back girl


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

For the love of yourslef and your children please get the hell away from this man.

There are serious psychological possibly neurological issues with him.

I'm not exaggerating. What you've described is human being in crisis he may not be "fixable".


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Good lord, woman. I do hope you take this advice and get out as quickly as you can. You are exposing yourself and your children to someone with a very dangerous and cruel lifestyle.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He sounds like the sort of man who has other children with other women that you don't know about, perhaps other semi-functioning families just like your own.

Please, please start looking straight ahead to your future and how you free yourself from him. You need to save yourself and your children. Follow the advice on how to secure any evidence and finances you might have. Get some free legal consultations to get the divorce going.

And no matter what - when he tells you he loves you, don't melt. Start hearing those words for the lies that they are.


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

beautiful dreamer, WOW! That is one ugly story. Reading your story, I felt such extreme compassion for you and what you are going through. I am shocked that you have put up with it for 9 years! As a 43 year old, happily married man, I am telling you that he is beyond repair. I know that the prospect of being alone, after this long, is scary. I know that the prospect of figuring out how to be financially independent after all of those years seems monumental, but I am here to tell you that YOU CAN, AND MUST DO IT!! Your children are going to become, if not already, collateral damage if you remain in this spiritual-killing, and potentially dangerous situation. Your attorney will help you get what you need to be financially independent. You have to draw up the courage to pull it off. Oh, and it wouldn't hurt to first, gather as much "evidence" as possible, of his infidelity and monetary habits. Anything that can help your attorney squeeze him for all he is worth will help you and your children. He needs to pay. Believe me, with your courage, and a good attorney, HE WILL!


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## MambaZee (Aug 6, 2013)

I really hope that in a year's time or so, she's posting here that the divorce is final, she's found her self-worth, she's happy, the kids are happy and that this SOB is out of the picture. In the meantime, I'm here to support along with everyone else.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Okay bd, you have the consensus of opinion you were seeking. It's not even fathomable that you would consider anything other than D. Now, go look at yourself in the mirror and tell yourself - NO MORE! Use your anger to fuel your resolve.

Then, start putting together your exit plan. Get a free consultation with an attorney. Get friends and family to support you and help you. There is a way to leave this POS; just be careful, because he sounds unstable to say the least. You CAN do it, you MUST do it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

beautifuldreamer said:


> I just wanted to say thank you for the replies. I'm just staring at my computer screen. I'm am really that far gone. I never thought of my self as a victim of domestic violence. But I am.


Since I was the one who brought up domestic abuse, I want to be very clear.
There is a difference between emotional abuse and domestic violence (aka physical abuse). You have definitely been emotionally abused. The why he has kept money from you is considered financial abuse. It’s a form of emotional abuse. He has used the withholding of money to control you. The way he’s treated you is abusive.. Emotionally.
I’m not sure about the domestic violence since you did not mention any. Does you use a lot of yelling and intimidation to get his way? Does he throw things, break things, pound furniture and walls? Does he hit you, push you, shove you, twist your arms, and all sort of physically things in violence. Does he do these things?



beautifuldreamer said:


> Really starting to wonder what did I do wrong in life to deserve this. I'm such a caring person. Have NEVER EVER strayed from my husband. For the last 9 years ive been a homemaker. Lovingly taking care of my kids and H. I think of all the sacrifices ive made. Trying to save and cut cost in our ousehold. While he has spent $$$$$ of dollars has MAXED all his credit cards


You did nothing to deserve this. 
What you did do is that you failed to set healthy boundaries and then refuse to accept any behavior that crossed them. This is why domestic abuse (emotional and physical) happens.

There are a lot of resources online. Look up things like 
“Emotional abuse” 
“Domestic violence”
“Financial abuse”
“Physical abuse”
“Cycle of abuse”
“Domestic abuse exit plan”

There are also abuse hotlines. They can be a lot of help as you can call 24/7 for help. Find one in your area. Or when/if you start counselling they will most likely have some numbers you can call.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

As for what EleGirl said.. 

You are with someone who is abusing and manipulating YOU and others around you. People like this don't change...

And yes he is abusing you.

People like this are HIGHLY attuned to other peoples emotions and prey on those who have a rough time.. you were just an easy target, someone on an adult site not wanting to be on one really just looking for love. Do you see how that's enticing to someone that likes to manipulate?

I got involved with someone like this in the midst of getting a job after a crushing layoff, and an illness.
Once I got a job I SAW the red flags... but I ignored them. We also got married and his mask came off maybe 2 months after the wedding. I caught him in too many lies to count.
And I think the only reason that I did catch him is that when he changed so much I got rid of those rose tinted glasses and was able to be objective in SOME situations. Soon love turned into contempt for me... but then he would have his "good days" and cry, beg etc and I would stay.

But he was still abusive, and I still feel the after effects of this almost a year after separation. 

You need to make a plan to leave this relationship...

PS. I would also research TRAITS of a psychopathic person... you will see that you just mentioned pretty much every single one of them.
These people are damaged, and they don't recognize how much pain they cause, because they can't.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Lawyer. You need to document what you have found in court. When the creditors go after him, you have to make sure you are covered. Have your taxes reviewed, too.


When you divorce, require he maintain a life insurance policy with you as the beneficiary of some size. 

Documenting the finances is #1 AFTER getting your own STD testing done at intervals.

You have suffered so much. 

I would probably have committed homicide if I had been in your shoes. Then I would have packed his bags and thrown them on the lawn. His dead body would eventually tip me off that I got the order completely backward.

Get out of there as soon as you can. Your lawyer will have to force a lot of disclosure. Your H won't make this,easy.

Tell his parents. Family.

I'm sorry for all of your pain. There are a lot of awful spouses out there but yours is among the worst.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> Lawyer. You need to document what you have found in court. When the creditors go after him, you have to make sure you are covered. Have your taxes reviewed, too.
> 
> When you divorce, require he maintain a life insurance policy with you as the beneficiary of some size.


 In this case, she would be foolish to expect him to keep up the payments on a life insurance policy. What she can do is to get an agreement during the divorce that he will cooperate with her getting a life insurance policy on him. Then she can make sure that she makes those payments. The payment amount can be added to any spousal support or lump sum she gets from him. This way she knows that a policy actually exists and is being paid. The face value of the policy should be at least enough to cover all spousal support, child support and any long term payments he is obligated to pay out of the divorce.



clipclop2 said:


> Documenting the finances is #1 AFTER getting your own STD testing done at intervals.


VERY important. 

STD test is the first thing to do.

One thing that came to mind is that a spouse has a legal obligation to not squander marital assets. Your husband has squandered everything. Those receipts, bank & charge card statements, any cards, letters, are extremely important to you. You can ask the court that you be made whole by getting back half of everything you can prove he spent on his cheating. Some judges will give you all of it back and then some more as a punitive judgment on him.

Unless you pay your attorney huge bucks, he/she will not do the accounting needed to determine what he has wasted and thus owes you. You will need to do it. I have done forensic accounting for divorces. If you want some guidance on how to do this yourself send me a PM. Or we can do it on the open forum if you want. I can help you with specific advice on this.


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

Just wanted to say thanks for the replies. I'm replying from crappy mobile device. I will.replay to messages when I.get to.desk.top puter. Few things I wanted to add is : 
-I had std testing done last week. He has given me an incurable.disease Herpes. 
-we have 3 special needs kids that are all.have emotional issues. 
- he has told me.more than.once


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

-we have NO life insurance..He refuses. Says life insurance is for wives that want to kill.there husband. I always reply ..ah no life insurance is a safety net for your surviving family. If anything happens kids and I would be on.the street with non access to his money. 
-he told me more than once that if we ever divorce he will take the kids
-there's zero.domestic violence. We don't arguing, curse etc. No breaking things none.of that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Again I'm assuming that you are going to divorce as it's the only reasonable thing for you to do.

Do not tell him what you are thinking/planning. This is for your own safety. Talk to an attorney about what you can do to get him to leave the house.

Usually one spouse cannot kick the other out. It's both of there's legal residence. if he refuses to go when/if you ask him to leave he can stay... and he can make your life even more miserable.

So talk to your attorney about what to do.

1) see if you can get a restraining order based on your evidence of his extreme behavior. If there is any physical violence loud/angry intimidation, call 911. Then you might be able to have him removed from the home and get a restraining order so that he cannot come back.

2) Or see if you can take your evidence to the court and have them order him out of the house.

If your lawyer advises you to just move out with your children be careful. I did this based on advice from my attorney because my husband was physically abusive. I moved out with our son the day he was served the divorce papers at school (he was a medical student). 

He got an attorney and called an emergency hearing with the judge in 24 hours. The judge ordered me to return our son to my husband. I had never called the police on my husband when he was abusive. When he told me he'd kill me and my family if I tried to leave him.. there were no witnesses. The judge chose to believe him... that is was making things up. She also had the divorce papers I filed sealed because "We cannot have those accusations against a doctor in the public record."

So I stopped the divorce and returned to the family home with my son. there was no way I would leave a 3.5 year old to fend for himself with the father who had a habit of abusing our son.

It took me 3 more years of living in an abusive relationship to build the case so I could leave with my son. 

Be very careful in how you do this.


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

-he has light switch emotional state. Like he could care less if he lived or died
-the moment I leave. Kids and I will have to go into hiding. I think he is capable of anything
-due to.stress ive been to.the hospital handfuls of.time..chain pain.etc. end result after.hospital testing would be Dr talking to me.about stress


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

-I live in California ..married 9 years. 
-my name is NOT on the house


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

beautifuldreamer said:


> -we have NO life insurance..He refuses. Says life insurance is for wives that want to kill.there husband. I always reply ..ah no life insurance is a safety net for your surviving family.


I’m not surprised he says this. But if you divorce him, you can make you getting life insurance on him something he has to cooperate with.


beautifuldreamer said:


> If anything happens kids and I would be on.the street with non access to his money.


If you divorce him, your attorney will get the court to order him to pay. Ask them to garnish his pay so that you get the money and do not depend on him to send you a check.

A good attorney will file an immediate request to the court that you be given child and spousal support, garnished from his pay.

While I would usually not suggest this, yours is an extreme circumstance. Apply for a credit card. You can list his income since you are married to him. Give the credit card company an address… like the address of our friend or family member. Once you have the credit card you can charge living epenses to it. Just be fugal because it will be added to community debt and so it will be part of the debt part of the divorce settlement. 

Talk to your attorney about the idea of the credit card.


beautifuldreamer said:


> -he told me more than once that if we ever divorce he will take the kids


He’s using that nonsense to control you because he knows that you do not know your rights. And you scare way too easily. He’s not going to get the children.

You have several things in your favor: You have been a SAHM so you are their primary care giver. If you can prove the extent of his behavior.. all the days/nights that he has not been around to parent his children and form a bond with him you can prove that he’s basically a stranger to them. You have the credit card, bank statements, receipts etc. to prove that he has not helped much to raise the children.

There are two kinds of custody: legal and physical. Legal custody states who gets to make the major decisions in a child’s life… like where they go to school and if they need to see a doctor. Physical custody is who the children live with.

The two of you will most likely share legal custody 50/50. 

You should take the stance that you want 100% physical custody since you have been their parimay care giver and he has not been around much. Now it’s up to him to fight for visitation rights and/or a share of physical custody. In cases where both parents are good parents 50/50 is reasonable. In your case I don’t think it is. 

And keep in mind that you need to ask the court to have him pay for your attorney. You are entitled to legal representation. So the harder he fights you.. the more he will pay to his attorney AND your attorney. 


beautifuldreamer said:


> -there's zero.domestic violence. We don't arguing, curse etc. No breaking things none.of that.


Good to hear. At least you are not dealing with that. But keep in mind that he has the need to control you. Once he finds out that he is losing control of you he might escalate. This is very common. Often the first signs of physical violence with an otherwise ‘only’ emotionally abusive spouse is when they find out that you are leaving them.

That’s why I suggested that you have a safety plan. So you think out ahead of time what you will do if it escalates.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

beautifuldreamer said:


> -he has light switch emotional state. Like he could care less if he lived or died


This points even more to a true physiatric problem with him


beautifuldreamer said:


> -the moment I leave. Kids and I will have to go into hiding. I think he is capable of anything


Before you do this get advice on what to do from your attorney. The court might very well look at you as having kidnapped the children. All sympathy will turn to him and you will be fighting an uphill battle to prove that he’s the problem not you. 


beautifuldreamer said:


> -due to stress ive been to the hospital handfuls of time..chain pain etc. end result after hospital testing would be Dr talking to me about stress


I’m not surprised at all.

Go see a doctor about depression. A lot of your health problems could be caused by that. If you get on anti-depressants to help you through this you will be more focused and more able to handle things with a clear head.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

beautifuldreamer said:


> -I live in California ..married 9 years.


I have done work on a few divorces in California so I’ll share some of what I know. Please also research this on your own… I am doing this just to give you hope that you can make it on your own.
How close are you to being married 10 years?

In California, 10 years is considered long term. With long term marriage you could get life-long alimony. However there is now a presumption of the receiver of support working to become self-sufficient.

Generally spousal support in marriages less than 10 years is for half the length of the marriage. 

The cut off before 10 years is not hard set. A judge can to deem a 9 year marriage long term. The judge can also make decisions for example that since all of your children are special needs, you get support long for a longer than 4.5 years. Or they can decide that since he squandered marital assets, he will pay them back to you through life-long (or long term) spousal support.

California spousal support calculations start out the software called the Dissomaster. A rough estimation of support is the formula:

A = higher earner’s before tax income.

B = lower earner’s before tax income

C = support payment

(A x .40) – (B x .50.) = C

So, for example if your husband’s before tax income is $100,000 annually

(100,000 x .40) – (0 x .5) = $40,000 you would get $40,000 a year from him. Actually since this is a rough calculation it would be between $40,000 and $30,000.

Alimony is tax deductible to him and taxable to you. Meaning that you have to pay income tax on the $40,000.



beautifuldreamer said:


> -my name is NOT on the house


It does not matter. It’s been paid using community income… yes his income belongs to the marriage community not him while he’s married. That’s what the marriage certificate you signed says (or the alws behind it.) This is why a marriage is not just a piece of paper.

The house is 50% yours. Your name does not have to be on assets for you to have a claim to them. The two of you are married. What belongs to one belongs to the other. There are a few excepts that are considered sole property, such as inheritance that has not been co-mingled with community assets.

You know all that money he below on other women? Well that money could be put towards you buying him out of the house.

In my divorce from my son’s father I found cancelled checks showing that he paid his mother’s and father’s mortgages for our entire marriage. Now to add insult to injury, I supported him through medical school so he had medical school debt. And he was taking my income and moving it over to his parent’s homes (they were divorced). In exchange his parent added him to the deed as 50% owner. 

So in the divorce I showed up to court with the pile of cancelled checks and a spread sheeting showing how much he had paid on their homes. 

The deal I offered was that he and his parents could keep their homes, I got our marital home. If he refused the deal I was going to force the sale of all three homes and cash out my part. Keep in in that my name was not on his parent’s homes… but he used marital assets and his name was on them. By law, I was ¼ owner of both of their homes.

He was cussing up a storm in court that day. He did not know that I had found the stack of cancelled checks he had hidden. 

I got our home free can clear. 

I’m going to go find some links that will help you.

You have so much power here and so completely unaware of it. He should be quaking in his boots for what you can do to him financially at this point. Plus you have the upper hand in child custody.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You were not living the adult site lifestyle. But you met someone who was. And why was that? Because that's where you went looking. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The California court system has a very good family law self-help web site. I’ve used it a lot.

This is the calculator that the court uses to calculate interim support. 

Interim support is the support you get until the divorce is final. The Dissomaster is used to get a starting point for the after divorce spousal support.

Child support is the same during and after divorce.

Calculate Child Support

When you use it.. go too the bottom just above the “Calculate” button and chose “Santa Clara” as the county. That will get you the calculation that will most likely be used in your case.


I just ran it with 3 children, him making $100,000 (8333 monthly) and you making $0. I left everything below the income box blank on the form.

Child support is 2,647.00 and spousal support is 1,028.00, or 3675 total monthly. So it’s 44,100 annually. YOU will only have to pay taxes on the SS, of $12,336 a year. If you file head of household you will not have any taxes to pay. You will need to take the children as tax exemptions to claim head of household.

Child support is not deductible to your husband. You could even be nice and let him take 2 of the children as a tax write-off because that’s some hefty child support. 

Keep in mind that if there are extra expenses, such as academic curriculum for home schooling your children, he will have to pay at least a portion of that or all. These are extra things. He has to pay his portion of medical bills on top of the child support.

If you feel you need to go back to school to update you skills for a job or to get a degree, certificate, etc. You can apply for federal and state financial aid as well. 

With your spousal support being only $1028, you will most likely also be eligible for EBT (food stamps) while you get back on your feet.

You will be ok, even financially. 
Here’s the link to the main page of the California court system self-help web site.
Online Self-Help Center - selfhelp


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> You were not living the adult site lifestyle. But you met someone who was. And why was that? Because that's where you went looking.



Some people are naïve and do not understand the difference between that kind of site and a dating site. Many adult sites are passed off to look like dating sites.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

> beautifuldreamer;4104145-there's zero.domestic violence. We don't arguing, curse etc. No breaking things none.of that.


There are several different kinds of domestic abuse. There's Emotional, physical, sexual, mental, spiritual and *financial*. 

Financial abuse (in marriage) usually means that ONE party controls ALL or MOST of the money that comes into/goes out of the relationship. They control the funds for mostly selfish purposes. The other party doesn't really see any bills because the bills are kept from him or her. (S)he often has to ask for or even _beg_ for money for herself or to buy groceries or even to take care of the children, if the couple has any. The partner seems to have money for him/herself, but when the partner asks for money, the abuser answers, "We can't afford...." or "We don't have money for...". The partner is left in the dark about purchases made by the abuser. The abuser will also tell the partner that the finances are "none of his/her business". 

Does any of this sound familiar? 

Oh, by the way....a number of relationship experts who understand the categories of abuses have determined that cheating on one's partner *IS* abusive! 

Vega


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Vega said:


> Oh, by the way....a number of relationship experts who understand the categories of abuses have determined that cheating on one's partner *IS* abusive!
> 
> Vega


This is especially true in BD's case. The level of his cheating, lying, and use of marital income for his cheating make is a very abusive situation.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> So you think out ahead of time what you will do if it escalates.


WHEN it escalates. From the sound of it, Ele, yo uare dead on with this and from what I can glean from what OP has said, this guy's a nut case about one hair away from being bald, so to speak.


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

Vega said:


> There are several different kinds of domestic abuse. There's Emotional, physical, sexual, mental, spiritual and *financial*.
> 
> Financial abuse (in marriage) usually means that ONE party controls ALL or MOST of the money that comes into/goes out of the relationship. They control the funds for mostly selfish purposes. The other party doesn't really see any bills because the bills are kept from him or her. (S)he often has to ask for or even _beg_ for money for herself or to buy groceries or even to take care of the children, if the couple has any. The partner seems to have money for him/herself, but when the partner asks for money, the abuser answers, "We can't afford...." or "We don't have money for...". The partner is left in the dark about purchases made by the abuser. The abuser will also tell the partner that the finances are "none of his/her business".
> 
> ...


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

Please excuse above response. I tried to do a quote in reply. Will respond when I get back to desktop


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

It sounds like you and I share our inertia in common. My husband also told me he would go to counseling 2 months ago and he has 1 made phone call to a counselor three weeks ago but he'll spend hours online looking at watches. I think we know they don't care but I know I can't believe he lied the whole time. I just think we're both in shock. I also hope my hubby will change but my hope is rapidly dwindling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## coolbreez (Sep 6, 2013)

I wish I had married a woman that had class like you.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

As far as the living situation...

In my state there is an EMERGENCY order of protection granted same day. That lasts (I think 21 days) then you go back and have to provide concrete proof on why the order has to be extended.

So with the emergency order he has no warning, they show up, ask him to take 5 min to pack his things and he needs to leave.

If you got to a legal help center you can pretty much file it same day and been seen by a judge in a few hours from filing.

Because you have children I think the order includes no contact with them and CHILD support and alimony.

You can also file motions where the court tells the bank that he cannot move assets.

I would seriously consider the order of protection. I just saw a very logical, practical friend of mine.. she is super independent and rarely says anything about domestic issues. I was shocked when she told me she FEARS FOR MY LIFE based on my stbx and his patterns.
She kept repeating that she will testify in court if that's what it takes and she is worried this will be a crime scene.. she even wanted me to move in with her and her hubby.

So... I was still feeling guilty about the order.. and then I saw her eyes and fear for me. It reaffirms that we cannot TRUST people like this. You need to get someone to help you form a good plan of leaving this marriage.. and safely.

The statistics are scary, and I have heard personal stories where the ex is now on death row for attempted murder.

You need to find a way to get out. Call a women's shelter, they can help you with counselling, legal advice.. or just someone to vent to. There is no shame in taking care of yourself and your children.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Some people are naïve and do not understand the difference between that kind of site and a dating site. Many adult sites are passed off to look like dating sites.



I think that beyond this.. people can be found like this everywhere. 
I've seen women who met their husbands in church get infected with Aids, or women who met men on Christian Date sites scammed for thousands while the guy cheats behind their back.

It's everywhere, the venue makes no difference.

After All, HE could have said that he is on there just for sex.. not courted her... but that's not what happened.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

It is hard to understand how your family survives financially even now. What sort of employment does your husband have? What pins him down to staying in the area once you divorce?

Your husband is an extremely manipulative person and apparently you are not his only victim. Once you refuse to maintain the status quo and put pressure on him will he be able to cope? Sounds like he needs psychiatric care.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

BD, as Ele and a few others have stated, there is a lot of abuse floating around your relationship. I think regardless where you found one another and the point you became faithful to one another is moot. When you have children with someone that typically denotes being true to that one person. If you had this talk before a strict one on one relationship and seeking it outside, is again another thing. But if you are controlling about anything finances, emotional and so on then there is a problem. I think everyone has said, a problem exists and it's not good, healthy, acceptable for long term. You will build up a lot of resentment. Who needs that in a supposed loving relationship. Can you "R", maybe question is do you want to. Can you look in the mirror and see a smile or pain when you think about. For me I want to smile and be happy. Go be happy.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

OMG, I am so sorry! 

Your divorce agreement can specify insurance. If his work provides any, your agreement can be enforced there.

Do you have any brothers? unfortunately you're going to have to call those women . and whatever site he hangs out on you should post a notice . maybe they can sue him .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I mean the women not the site
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Oh.. I missed the STD part.. I am so sorry.. I can't even imagine dealing with that on top of everything else.

Hang in there!!!


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

How is adultery proven during a divorce?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Confession or witness are the ways that it is proven generally. You need to find out if it makes a difference in your state (CA if I remember right). Talk to a lawyer and find out if it is worth pursuing that avenue. In some states, it makes no difference when it comes to alimony, child custody, or division of property, so in those states generally the lawyers won't push the issues as it makes no difference in the outcome and just means more paperwork for them. In states where it matters, confession of the individuals involved, written correspondence, phone records, pictures (exchanged and taken by a pi), and evidence gathered by a PI are some of the used evidence. Just make sure that the evidence presented is obtained legally, you lawyer can inform you of whether evidence you have is admissable or not. If you got it off a shared family computer, just claim that the account was left open when you got on the computer or you were given the password. Don't "admit" to hacking the computer, so that the evidence will be ignored by the attorney. If you have the name of the AP, you can name them in the D paperwork and have them disposed in court for their part (they will be under oath, but it doesn't guarantee that they won't lie, but it is a start.)


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

Yes , CA. thanks


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

beautifuldreamer said:


> How is adultery proven during a divorce?


California is a no fault state. You cannot file based on adultery. Instead you have your attorney negotiate for the money back that he spent on his cheating. That's why I have been telling you to use all that info you found on the money he blew. He owes you at least half of all that.

Search the web for "California divorce fault adultery". Here is what one site says. 

"Most people are aware that California is a "no fault" divorce state, that is, one is not required to prove that one's spouse has done something "wrong" in order to obtain a divorce. the only two grounds from which to choose to dissolve a marriage here in California is (a). irreconcilable differences have arisen which have caused a complete break down of the marriage; or (b) incurable insanity. "

"SO WHERE MIGHT "ADULTEROUS BEHAVIOR" COME INTO PLAY IN FAMILY LAW? 



Misappropriation: During marriage each spouse is charged with the duty to manage marital assets (including income) in a way which hopefully benefits, and, at a minimum, does not harm, the family. If one spouse takes money away from the family for a purpose contrary to the family, that is called a misappropriation. Spending community money on a girlfriend or boyfriend, especially expensive gifts, paying for rent or mortgage, or vacations can be deemed a misappropriation for which the "injured" party is entitled to reimbursement for one half of the funds spent, possibly with interest, from the date of the misappropriation.



Interspousal tort. Under non-criminal law, an intentional, unlawful and harmful or offensive contact by one person with the person of another may be considered "battery", for which damages (money) may be assessed. Should an extramarital affair result in the offending party contracting, and giving to the "innocent" party a sexually transmitted disease, that may constitute civil "battery". Such an action might need to be prosecuted in a separate civil action apart from the divorce case, but the two cases can be consolidated upon appropriate motion to the court.



Supported Spouse. Where one spouse is paying spousal support to the other, if the supported spouse thereafter "cohabits" with a member of the opposite sex, there is a rebuttable presumption that the supported person has a decreased need for spousal support. The supported spouse then has the burden of proving continued need. This does NOT, however, affect child support. cohabitation has been defined in cases over the years as being something more than roommates, probably requiring romantic involvement, but not necessarily sexual relations. The income of the new boyfriend or girlfriend or even a new spouse of the payor is irrelevant.



CONCLUSION 



Infidelity most affects divorce in the negotiation process. Rarely does infidelity fail to elicit a strong, negative emotional response from the "wronged" spouse. In turn, the party who is engaged in the affair may respond out of guilt, become defensive or turn blame onto the other party again, all strong, negative emotional responses. Strong negative emotions are among the things which make divorces more acrimonious, protracted and painful.



The law will be applied neutrally and there may be little legal detriment to adultery. All actions, however have their consequences, whether around a negotiating table, in a court of law, or on the Senate floor. "

Adultery and Divorce


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> Confession or witness are the ways that it is proven generally. You need to find out if it makes a difference in your state (CA if I remember right). Talk to a lawyer and find out if it is worth pursuing that avenue. In some states, it makes no difference when it comes to alimony, child custody, or division of property, so in those states generally the lawyers won't push the issues as it makes no difference in the outcome and just means more paperwork for them. In states where it matters, confession of the individuals involved, written correspondence, phone records, pictures (exchanged and taken by a pi), and evidence gathered by a PI are some of the used evidence. Just make sure that the evidence presented is obtained legally, you lawyer can inform you of whether evidence you have is admissable or not. If you got it off a shared family computer, just claim that the account was left open when you got on the computer or you were given the password. Don't "admit" to hacking the computer, so that the evidence will be ignored by the attorney. If you have the name of the AP, you can name them in the D paperwork and have them disposed in court for their part (they will be under oath, but it doesn't guarantee that they won't lie, but it is a start.)


Even in no fault states, a person can sue their spouse for the money that the other spent buying gifts, dating, hotel rooms etc. when there has been adultery. They do not have to prove infidelity. They only have to prove that marital money was spent inappropriately.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> OMG, I am so sorry!
> 
> Your divorce agreement can specify insurance. If his work provides any, your agreement can be enforced there.
> 
> Do you have any brothers? unfortunately you're going to have to call those women . and whatever site he hangs out on you should post a notice . maybe they can sue him .


Using the insurance provided by his employer is not advisable in a case like this. There is too much risk involved.

Generally he can cancel this type of policy at any time. Or change the beneficiaries. Or change jobs and the insurance is lost.

This is why I suggested that, through the divorce process, she get an insurance on him that she pays. This way she has control of it.

Plus there are tax consequences if she is not married to him and is the beneficiary of an insurance that he pays. If she pays it, the proceeds are tax free should he die.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Even in no fault states, a person can sue their spouse for the money that the other spent buying gifts, dating, hotel rooms etc. when there has been adultery. They do not have to prove infidelity. They only have to prove that marital money was spent inappropriately.



This is true, but it is like suing in a state that Adultery, Alienation of Affection, and Criminal Conversation exist. It is an instant win in those states, and there is no defense other than the truth (and when the truth is Adultery, it is an instant win). The only catch is that it is an expensive suit to bring about with no guarantee to be recouping the damages necessary to cover the cost of the suit, and I can imagine this would be the same in most states where the funds squandered wouldn't cover the cost to recoup (considering documentation needed, probably the forensic accountant, and the lawyers fee) which is why I said talk to a lawyer (sometimes I can imagine it would be hard to prove that the money was spent on an A when you are having issues even proving the A exists or ever existed).


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

Thank you .


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> This is true, but it is like suing in a state that Adultery, Alienation of Affection, and Criminal Conversation exist. It is an instant win in those states, and there is no defense other than the truth (and when the truth is Adultery, it is an instant win). The only catch is that it is an expensive suit to bring about with no guarantee to be recouping the damages necessary to cover the cost of the suit, and I can imagine this would be the same in most states where the funds squandered wouldn't cover the cost to recoup (considering documentation needed, probably the forensic accountant, and the lawyers fee) which is why I said talk to a lawyer (sometimes I can imagine it would be hard to prove that the money was spent on an A when you are having issues even proving the A exists or ever existed).


I agree... it can be hard.

She says she has a lot of evidence to include the account statements. If she has the skills, she can put the numbers in a spreadsheet, or quicken, etc, herself and prove the amount.

Then she can discuss it with her attorney.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Using the insurance provided by his employer is not advisable in a case like this. There is too much risk involved.
> 
> Generally he can cancel this type of policy at any time. Or change the beneficiaries. Or change jobs and the insurance is lost.
> 
> ...


Look, I have this agreement with my ex-. It is enforceable by law. Yes, you have to verify and be willing to go back to court. Nobody said it is a walk in the park. It is imminently double however.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Look, I have this agreement with my ex-. It is enforceable by law. Yes, you have to verify and be willing to go back to court. Nobody said it is a walk in the park. It is imminently double however.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Elegirl is just saying and suggesting that she have it in the D settlement but that she carry the policy herself. If he does any of those things you will not know of find out for sometime and it could be too late by that time. You would constantly be having to check and verify as he could change this monthly and play this game with you for a long time. Yes it is legally enforceable but you would have to force the issue consistently if he wants to be stupid about it and when/ if something happens since you weren't paying the policy the benefits could be taxable. Also what happens if he changed the beneficiary or drops the policy and dies before it goes to court, what are you left with? Yes it is enforceable but you can't prove that any other policies collected upon were the monies you were due, and his beneficiaries would not be in dented to you so a court may not make them pay in that case. You could be caught in a loop hole there, of course you may not care since he is dead anyway? Elegirls reply just guarantees you always get what is coming to you and takes the least amount of effort on your part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> Look, I have this agreement with my ex-. It is enforceable by law. Yes, you have to verify and be willing to go back to court. Nobody said it is a walk in the park. It is imminently double however.


What happens if your ex loses his job?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to gather up those receipts you found and store them safely at a friends. You want to do this so that those debts are his not yours in the divorce. Not only has he cheated continuously on you but he has defrauded you.

You need a good lawyer to help you here.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

beautifuldreamer said:


> -I live in California ..married 9 years.
> -my name is NOT on the house


Doesn't matter it is a joint marital asset, and your place of residence.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Doesn't matter it is a joint marital asset, and your place of residence.


Unless his name is not on it either?? He has shown himself to be conniving enough to have put it in someone else's name in which case she needs to prove their assets were used to pay its mortgage. His claims that he was paying the mortgage are not enough. She needs the money transfers, mortgage statements or cancelled checks. Probably is cut and dried but throwing this out there as food for thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> Unless his name is not on it either?? He has shown himself to be conniving enough to have put it in someone else's name in which case she needs to prove their assets were used to pay its mortgage. His claims that he was paying the mortgage are not enough. She needs the money transfers, mortgage statements or cancelled checks. Probably is cut and dried but throwing this out there as food for thought.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Forensic accountant is what can help here.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Forensic accountant is what can help here.


Agreed on this, just throwing out opposing thoughts so that the op and other readers don't miss these little things. Most don't think like I do and think everything is straight forward. Life is not that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thepoet (Sep 8, 2013)

This sub forum is so depressing. I feel for everyone suffering from the selfish destructive behavior of their cheating partners, and hope I never have to make a post of my own.


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

Thepoet said:


> This sub forum is so depressing. I feel for everyone suffering from the selfish destructive behavior of their cheating partners, and hope I never have to make a post of my own.


I showed up here about seven months too late. It's a real eye opener. There's a heck of a lot of things a person can do to lower their chances of posting here. 

Beautifuldreamer you've got a tough road in front of you but I hope you see the general path you need to take. Your H is truly horrible. I'm all for seeking truth but in this case I'm not sure I'd want to know the full extent either... it's got to be very bad. 

Does your H even _know_ he has an STD? This situation is ridiculous, be strong.


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## beautifuldreamer (Sep 6, 2013)

MrMathias said:


> I showed up here about seven months too late. It's a real eye opener. There's a heck of a lot of things a person can do to lower their chances of posting here.
> 
> Beautifuldreamer you've got a tough road in front of you but I hope you see the general path you need to take. Your H is truly horrible. I'm all for seeking truth but in this case I'm not sure I'd want to know the full extent either... it's got to be very bad.
> 
> Does your H even _know_ he has an STD? This situation is ridiculous, be strong.


No, H does not know he has an STD. still hasn't went to do bloodwork. 

I need some serious help. I can't figure out why the heck i'm still by this man's side. I'm seeking IC for myself.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Why do you think you are still there?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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