# Lets just be friends and raise the kids



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

I told my husband this is what I wanted. That we should be friends and raise the kids. We have a spare bedroom since our son moved out. I told him we arent bad people, we just arent good for each other. He declined. Said things would change, they didnt. I dont know what to do anymore. Ive been planning my exit strategy since before the last child was born. She is now 11. 

I know im going to wake up one morning and bounce. I guess im just venting and tired of banging my head against the wall. There is definately a lack of non sexual intimacy. Sex is great. Its the time that we arent in bed that lacks......something...No neither one of us us is having an affair. I have told him I feel like im his room mate anyway, we just have regular sex, lol.

I guess i put this in the mens section...cause hes a dude..and yall are dudes....and i just.dont.get. it.....

Married 19 years in January 4 kids, 23, 18, 13, and soon to be 12. I figure I have about 8 more years.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What all have you done to work on improving things?


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

i talk he ignores. i push, he pulls away. i tantrum. he shuts down. I shut down, he walks around like nothing is wrong. Im going to IC. He isnt into counseling for himself or us and I dont have the energy to make all the arrangments like its my problems. 

so to answer your question, lol, nothing contructive.


----------



## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

So you don't feel that IC is constructive? If so, why do you go?

Have you suggested IC to him? Just to see if there are things he wants to talk about? I went to Couples counseling willingly, but actually never really thought about IC until recently. And I think it has the most promise to actually help me out in how to deal with my defensiveness.

What is it that you are looking for? Can you define it? If so, have you told him what it is that you are looking for? If in person, have you written it down? Tried to make it an impersonal "wish list" of things? Another interesting idea is to write down that list and see if he thinks he HAS done those things, but to you they "dont' count".


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

I didnt say IC wasnt contructive for me. It is very constructive. I have suggested we go and he says he doesnt need it. LMAO I have been married almost 19 years. Of course I have told him what I need and exactly what that looks like in terms of behavioral changes. I realized I was speaking chick and when i did i started to try and speak dude so he would get it. But for him, as long as im quiet and not complaining all is well, even when i tell him its not.

Look, Im a therapist and have tried some of the interventions I would have had my clients try. I know a fool tries to treat themselves, but I was desperate


----------



## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

I think it is also easy to look at one's own relationship and miss things that someone on the outside wouldn't. Individual situation bias is incredibly strong. 
I didn't mean for you both to go - I meant suggest IC for him alone. Maybe even pitch it as a positive - he can go and get out all his irritations at you to someone impartial.


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

ET1SSJonota said:


> I think it is also easy to look at one's own relationship and miss things that someone on the outside wouldn't. Individual situation bias is incredibly strong.
> I didn't mean for you both to go - I meant suggest IC for him alone. Maybe even pitch it as a positive - he can go and get out all his irritations at you to someone impartial.


I suggested he go. He told me, unlike me, talking about how he feels doesnt make him feel better.


----------



## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

What is it that you need? How do you define non sexual intimacy? Is he simply not around besides work and bedtime?


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

Okay...i work two jobs. He works one. We dont have a lot of time together outside of raising the kids and taking care of the house. I have told him I feel like a peice of furniture...now that was speaking chick. he didnt seem to get it. I got more specific. I need to be with him, talk to him, touch him (non sexual). I need us to recognize when something is wrong with the other and respond in what ever way that person needs. He spends his free time watching tv. gawd I hate that ****ing tv. its like having another woman in the house, I have to complete for his attention with "her".

date nights are horrible because we dont.talk. its painful.

texts to let me know he is thinking about me. complement me when I make an extra effort to look nice. gifts for my birthday and friggin christmas (im stuck on that one because another christmas has gone by without a gift for me, lmao, sounds childish I know, but its how I feel) be receptive when I come to him for affection. and dont ignore my pain when its evident in front of him.

im getting annoyed just typing this lol


----------



## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

Is it that he doesn't initiate talking, or that he won't respond to you talking? I get the feedback that "we don't talk" alot, but then remember hours of conversation. That goes back to the "what counts". 
Is it a "I put all the effort in" thing? I know that I, and I'm sure many men, can get into a "nothing is wrong" mode if there isn't something "squeaky". That doesn't mean it has to be bad noises - and making a datenight about something else can open things up. I had a fun datenight with my wife a while back by doing a "treasure hunt" through Barnes and Nobles. Sitting down and asking questions. Heck, I just planned with her to look up things on this forum and talk about any that we found interesting or insightful. I guess what I'm trying to say in what is excessively long statement is that if put on the spot, even the most verbose of us got tongue-tied (personal experience). But if there is something to actively talk about, or a question to be answered- that's easy enough.


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

Its so funny you asked this because I tried to expain it to him. He will talk about work, he will listen to me talk about work. But when it comes to us, it gets very uncomfortable to him. He tells me I pick the wrong times to try and engage him. Well hell....I work about 60 sometimes more hours per week, 7 days a week. So between supervising homework, dinner with the kids, meeting their needs in bed by 9...he is watching tv usually until I fall asleep...ooooooo im having so much fun, i cant stand it.


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

oh i got a set of question cards to help us engage and it was so painful trying to get him to play, i just gave up.

lmao, i usually invite his aunt, who is close in age to us on date night so i have someone to talk to. omg, thats so friggin sad.


----------



## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

One of our date nights was just bringing up random questions from websites to ask each other, almost the flavor of the "truth or dare". We had some fun with that. 
Have you actually told him, not suggested, not "hinted", that your plan is to leave once the last one is gone because of this?


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

my husband told me when I talk sometimes I remind him of his mother and he tunes me out. Ive told my husband lots of things. What stuck and didnt stick I have no idea. I have told him on two occasions the first time when my youngest was born that I was out of here when she grew up. This summer I told him I want us to live in the same house and just raise our kids until they are out the house. We are two down, two to go and he refused to consider it.

Part of the problem is that I just refuse to be miserable all the time so im not presenting as unhappy all the time as i feel. I think he takes that to mean its all fine. but when we have an argument, its like all these feelings wash over me like they are brand new and I just have an almost uncontrollable urge to bolt, but i have young children so thats never an option


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

I brought up a couples date night question set off the internet on my phone the last date night. I would ask the questions but after he answered that was it. He never asked me any. then it felt like too much effor to keep it going myself and we settled down, ate our meal, and looked around the restuarant like losers.


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

I feel the need to back up a bit and say that my husband is an awesome person. will do anything for you. good father, works, no outside relationships. He doesnt abuse me. doesnt put me through outside drama. Is a family man. Stays home, doesnt reallly hang with the fellas (although i think he needs to every now and then). He just tends to ignore me and what I need and THAT will be the death of this marriage. Id rather be happy and alone.


----------



## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

And that's why it would be terrible. I highly doubt he actually KNOWS how you feel. You could write it in Sharpie all over your forehead. It sounds like he is rationalizing the things that you do give him to avoid feeling guilty/like the bad guy. He sounds disengaged entirely. Is he highly sexual, or you are both spontaneous with it? You could use that as a lure? He asks a question, he gets a prize?


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

lmao....first, i just cant dangle sex like that (and it wouldnt work anyway). for me its something we share because we want to not something to use to get my way. I wouldnt work because Im easy, lol. He doesnt have to beg, jump through hoops, do magic tricks, take out the garbare, or do the dishes. Sex is free and plentiful. Its a benefit of marriage. Besides, If i used that tactic and it didnt work then I would deny myself one of the only places I feel emotionally connected to him. Im trying so hard to hang on to any shred of intimacy we have because if I dont, then im really checking out and it wont just be a plan for when my youngest goes off to college.


----------



## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

I'm not talking about dangle or deny. I'm talking about a game. You could even go no-sexual. Incentivize discussion. Scalp massage, back rub, manicure - I'm sure you can think of things. Bigger thing is to make it clear and obvious you are dying inside from need for the connection. No code words, no "he clearly understands". And if you have to be blunt, make sure he repeats what you are feeling back to you.


----------



## ManUp (Nov 25, 2012)

Hmmm....I'm really getting the sense he has no idea you think anything is wrong. I have to admit I would be confused too. 

If you're still having sex with him and it's still pretty good, he's getting his intimacy needs met. But, he thinks sex is what you need to feel intimate as well. He's missing the point. 

You're a therapist. I'm sure you can figure out a way to bluntly tell him that he isn't meeting your intimacy needs and that he needs to come to mc or else he will lose you. I guarantee you be has no real idea that anything is wrong.


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

the confusion comes because im still having sex with him? what does that have to do with anything. I wanna scream "do you hear the worrrrdddsss thattttt areeee comminnggg outttt off mmyyy mouthhhhhhhh" lmao. Ive talked, ive screamed, ive cried, had tantrums, stopped talking to him, talked him to death, spoke chick to him and when that didnt work tried to learn to speak dude. My dudes a little rusty, but I try lol.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

You remind me of my wife and your husband reminds me of myself. We're doing great now, but there was a point in time when she would act pretty much like you are right now and I would do all the same things your husband does. Secret; outlast your issues, it will get better but in the meantime know that this is the period where you are most susceptible to having affairs so be careful.


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

bjorn...you just totally teased me, lol. HOW did this get better for you? He acts like im not speaking english and the thing thats makes me want to do violence is when he says "What are you talking about"....ooooooooooooooooooooo that burns. So tell me...what happened?


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

janesmith said:


> i talk he ignores. i push, he pulls away. i tantrum. he shuts down. I shut down, he walks around like nothing is wrong. Im going to IC. He isnt into counseling for himself or us and I dont have the energy to make all the arrangments like its my problems.
> 
> so to answer your question, lol, nothing contructive.


Does your situation sound a little like this?

Negative interaction cycle of criticize/placate, pursue and distance intimacy

My wife has an avoidant attachment style. I can sympathize with the challenge you face trying to communicate your needs in a manner he can understand. Do you have any idea why he acts this way? Do you have any theory on where this comes from?


----------



## trex (Oct 31, 2012)

Do you two share any interests? What are you trying to talk to him about? Is it something he's interested in? Do you want him to talk with you about your interests, or his?

Many guys are naturally quiet. For us quiet types, no conversation is a good thing. We'll open up under the right conditions. We will completely withdraw under the wrong conditions. 

If we are paired up with someone who needs banter, small talk, etc, there are going to be challenges. For a long time, I was my wife's only outlet for chit-chat. She wanted to tell me about her day, her thoughts and feelings, what she was planning for the next day. She would often use 100 words where I felt 10 or fewer would have sufficed (for example, telling me a life history of someone I don't know, will never know, and don't care to know - just to say that she ran into this person at the store). It took a lot of effort for me to stay engaged, I wasn't a fan of it, I'd often politely tune her out, and often wouldn't reciprocate. 

She would get pretty frustrated at me, tell me that I was acting distant. I didn't understand what she wanted for a long time. Eventually, we both started to understand the dynamic better. She needed girlfriends to talk to, and we needed find some common interests. Also, I've tried to use more words to express myself while she has tried to use fewer.

Now she knows the topics that will make me glaze over. She saves those for her girlfriends. She's learned that we can talk about our shared interests. If we find that we don't have things to talk about, we just found a topic of conversation: we need to plan something to do together - a trip, a project, whatever.

I can't speak for others, but I've always hated "canned" conversation starters. Maybe use them as a resource for thinking of topics that might spark his interest, but don't get your hopes up there.


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Does your situation sound a little like this?
> 
> Negative interaction cycle of criticize/placate, pursue and distance intimacy
> 
> My wife has an avoidant attachment style. I can sympathize with the challenge you face trying to communicate your needs in a manner he can understand. Do you have any idea why he acts this way? Do you have any theory on where this comes from?


that.is.us


----------



## trex (Oct 31, 2012)

As far as your intimacy issues go, was he ever very intimate with you outside the bedroom? If he's not that kind of guy, you may have a hard time getting him to come around. If he was better at this before, he may have just lost his way a bit and needs a little reminder. I agree with others here: he probably doesn't know what the problem is. 

Guys communicate in actions as much as words. What happens when you initiate a hug, holding hands, etc? Does he pull away, sit there like a cold fish, respond?

If he pulls away, ask him about it. "Is something wrong?" "Do you not like it when I do that?"

If he plays fish, this is probably all foreign to him.

If he responds positively, then he may just need a reminder that it's nice if he initiates occasionally.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

janesmith said:


> that.is.us


You are not alone, a lot of us fall into this pattern. The counselor I referenced for you above recommends this program

Couples Therapy and Workshops from Imago Relationships Intnl


----------



## ManUp (Nov 25, 2012)

michzz said:


> You have to be direct and specific with him.
> 
> And over, and over, and over.
> 
> ...


Exactly right. My wife and I have gone through periods where I simply wasn't understanding what she was getting at. I was interpreting her words through my own mental filter, and totally missing the point. She would repeat the same things over and over again in different ways through yelling, begging, conversation, etc... and I just wasn't getting it.

THAT'S why counselling is so important. We all need a third party person to hear and explain what's going on because over time we clutter our perceptions with daily crap that really filters whatever message the other person is trying to get across. 

That's why I'm saying he's confused because you're still having sex with him. His needs are being met, but in his mind so are yours. And he probably can't understand what the hell you're talking about. It's not your fault; it's the situation and this is what happens in long term relationships.


----------



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

we had the make it better or divorce conversation. I learned that I have such a problem with my anger that I have him walking on eggshells, having anxiety and unable to sleep or eat. Its not wonder he find it hard to connect with me emotionally. I dont really blame him. That is something I never wanted for my kids or him. I gotta lot of work to do.


----------

