# Possible reconciliation



## Papa Bear

Hi All,

I got divorced 2.5 years ago. Was in marriage for just over 3 years. We have a small child. We share custody of our kid.

The reason we separated was mainly financial issues. I didn't work due to an illness. Our sex life was non existing due to that illness. We fought a lot (verbally) and exchanged some heavy words. I am not easily offended by words while she on the other hand is.

She left and we were in touch, talking about reconciliation but she just suddenly served me with divorce papers. Then she turned against me. She said she feels hurt and would never ever be with me again. Literally hates me. Her family hates me too.

It was a shock to me, I loved her so much. So in meantime I got much better and started working. My sexual problems started improving too, the impotance caused by my illness is disappearing.

I was her first. Since she left I didn't have anyone.

She came 2 weeks ago to my house with her family to talk about the child. Her sister said "I have a suggestion for you guys, the best thing would be to reconcile". I said "she has someone" and my ex said "Not true, I have no one".

Later I mentioned to her what her sister suggested and we had a talk. She said she would come back to me without even thinking about it if:

1) I provide proof I am employed for at least 6 months
2) Find us an appartment to rent
3) Keep my promises 

Why didn't she say this 1 year ago? For the last 3 months my love towards her has decreased. I still feel something but not the same like first 2 years when I cried nearly every day.

That's not the worst thing, I know her and she has good in her heart so I could full in love again with her, plus we have a child together.

But here is a pill a can't swallow just yet. She told me she did not sleep with anyone since we separated but I don't believe it. It bothers me. I don't want to ask her to prove it somehow because she will say you do not trust me, but also how can I be with her if this is going to bother me?

I want my next marriage to work. I know it takes 2 people for it to work but I wanna make sure I am 100% commited to it. 

I have been thinking a lot and the best thing would be to be together again but I don't know how to get over it.

If you ask me how do I know she was sleeping with others, I have no proof but many things point to it.

I'm just confused. It is one thing marrying someone who had partners before me but being with me then be with someone and then again with me is just..IDK....I need help with this one.

PS. My parents reconciled after being 6 years apart (20 years ago) . Dad was an alcoholic and when he quit drinking they got back together.


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## strangeways

Hi PB,

I'm new to this forum and going through stuff of my own so my advice may not be the best!

Sounds like you've got a shot at reconciling. If it was me I'd go for it. 

Everyone has got their boundaries, your's being that you don't like the idea that she MAY have been with someone else. Fair enough. But don't forget you were separated. Did you have any agreements about not dating during separation?

I guess this is a matter of trust. You believe she did, she says she didn't. This needs to be resolved before any reconciliation can happen. If you don't mind me asking, why do you think she did?

Both my wife and I have had relationships since the separation but we were both open about it. It doesn't bother me (though I was a bit surprised about her choice of partner!). If I felt she was trying to hide something it would bother me.


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## DelinquentGurl

What things does your wife need to work on? It's not just you who has issues.

It seems like she has a list of demands and I don't like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Papa Bear

DelinquentGurl said:


> What things does your wife need to work on? It's not just you who has issues.
> 
> It seems like she has a list of demands and I don't like that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know what you mean. No one likes demands but I think she is right because she wants to be sure we don't have the same problems again. (unrmployment etc)

But her behaviour doesn't show she is too sincere because she still goes out every day and we don't communicate except for child related issues.


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## crisis1008

Papa Bear,

You posted on my thread that you would probably ask your ex to take a polygraph test. While I can appreciate your situation, I am not sure you know what it is like to go through a polygraph test. First of all, I do not believe in polygraph testing. While I have taken one in the past, and was honest, resulting in a pass, when I was a teenager my mother failed a polygraph for employment purposes. She came home in tears. The individual administering her test told her she was lying about her name and the state in which she lived, then called her a liar. Upon being told that she had lied, she defensively begged them to believe her and to test her again. The second test stated she was unreadable. I know my mother’s name. I know where my mother lives. She was not lying. Yet, the lie-detector test said she was. It is a pseudo-science. Why do you think polygraph tests are inadmissible in court. I only took one in the past because my husband gave me an ultimatum. I was to either take the test, or he was divorcing me. I was in extreme fear for the next three weeks, because I knew these tests are not accurate and could ultimately and erroneously state that I was lying. Just because the test stated I was being honest does not mean that these tests are accurate. It only means I had some form of luck that day. The next time I may not be so lucky.

In addition, the entire experience was extremely embarrassing, frightening and traumatic. I sat for two hours while a complete stranger asked me every intimate detail about my marriage, then another two hours while he asked me a myriad of questions as I was hooked up to coils and monitors. I cried through the entire ordeal and vowed to myself and my husband that I would never put myself through anything like this again. Your girlfriend will not be asked just a couple of questions and be on her way. She will be tortured.

I beg of you, do not p0ut her through this. Dig down deep in your soul. Deep in your gut. Then ask yourself if you really believe her or not. If you do not, just let her go. If you do, do not ever bring up the issue again. Whatever decision you make, stick to it.


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## Papa Bear

crisis1008 said:


> Papa Bear,
> 
> You posted on my thread that you would probably ask your ex to take a polygraph test. While I can appreciate your situation, I am not sure you know what it is like to go through a polygraph test. First of all, I do not believe in polygraph testing. While I have taken one in the past, and was honest, resulting in a pass, when I was a teenager my mother failed a polygraph for employment purposes. She came home in tears. The individual administering her test told her she was lying about her name and the state in which she lived, then called her a liar. Upon being told that she had lied, she defensively begged them to believe her and to test her again. The second test stated she was unreadable. I know my mother’s name. I know where my mother lives. She was not lying. Yet, the lie-detector test said she was. It is a pseudo-science. Why do you think polygraph tests are inadmissible in court. I only took one in the past because my husband gave me an ultimatum. I was to either take the test, or he was divorcing me. I was in extreme fear for the next three weeks, because I knew these tests are not accurate and could ultimately and erroneously state that I was lying. Just because the test stated I was being honest does not mean that these tests are accurate. It only means I had some form of luck that day. The next time I may not be so lucky.
> 
> In addition, the entire experience was extremely embarrassing, frightening and traumatic. I sat for two hours while a complete stranger asked me every intimate detail about my marriage, then another two hours while he asked me a myriad of questions as I was hooked up to coils and monitors. I cried through the entire ordeal and vowed to myself and my husband that I would never put myself through anything like this again. Your girlfriend will not be asked just a couple of questions and be on her way. She will be tortured.
> 
> I beg of you, do not p0ut her through this. Dig down deep in your soul. Deep in your gut. Then ask yourself if you really believe her or not. If you do not, just let her go. If you do, do not ever bring up the issue again. Whatever decision you make, stick to it.


No sweety, you misunderstood me, I said I wouldn't ask her for polygraph because it is humiliating. But even if I asked she wouldn't do it anyway. I need to find a way to trust her, but I don't know how.


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## WhereAmI

Papa Bear said:


> No sweety, you misunderstood me, I said I wouldn't ask her for polygraph because it is humiliating. But even if I asked she wouldn't do it anyway. I need to find a way to trust her, but I don't know how.


Perhaps you could make a list of things that you need in order for this to work as well? One of those things could be transparency. Since neither of you know what the other person was up to while separated, you'd both share your passwords and leave your phones open. Hopefully it would give a bit of comfort that neither of you is maintaining connections with previous partners. In order for this to work you would need to be just as transparent, so keep that in mind.


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## crisis1008

Papa Bear,

I apologize if I jumped to conclusions regarding your intentions in your relationship. I guess I am so sensitive to this subject, because I am so hurt over going through it in the past and am facing the possibility of going through it again.

I guess you will have to ask yourself if it really matters if she was with anyone else during the 2.5 years you were apart. If she has been, what could she really do to change it? You would probably need to ask yourself if you can trust that she will be faithful when you are together. What matters to you?


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## Lazarus

You were divorced. Therefore you should have no expectation that she should have refrained from other relationships with the opposite sex. However, if you had separated whilst married it would, could be cnsidered a reasonable expectation.

What you should be concentrating on in your reconciliation is the reason why you broke up in the first place.


She said No! Accept it. If she is lying you will find out eventually, probably through friends or a slip up in conversation, particularly after alcohol.


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## Papa Bear

WhereAmI said:


> Perhaps you could make a list of things that you need in order for this to work as well? One of those things could be transparency. Since neither of you know what the other person was up to while separated, you'd both share your passwords and leave your phones open. Hopefully it would give a bit of comfort that neither of you is maintaining connections with previous partners. In order for this to work you would need to be just as transparent, so keep that in mind.


The problem is she seems not to care about me. I believe she would come back 1) To be with the child and not to have him 1 week on/off and 2) Other relationships failed so far or in other words didn't meet someone that she is willing to commit to.


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## Papa Bear

Lazarus said:


> You were divorced. Therefore you should have no expectation that she should have refrained from other relationships with the opposite sex. However, if you had separated whilst married it would, could be cnsidered a reasonable expectation.


Fair enough. But I want to know.



Lazarus said:


> What you should be concentrating on in your reconciliation is the reason why you broke up in the first place.


I offered counseling so we can re-enter our marriage better and stronger but she refused



Lazarus said:


> If she is lying you will find out eventually, probably through friends or a slip up in conversation, particularly after alcohol.


And then what, divorce again?


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## Lazarus

If she doesn't care, why do you want someone who doesn't want you?

If she wants you, she has to show she cares about what matters to you if looking forward to a successful reconcilition and for you that means the whole truth. No lies. It's the lies that are the most hurful part. 

You may need to cool it because maybe both of you are not ready, yet.


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## Papa Bear

Lazarus said:


> You may need to cool it because maybe both of you are not ready, yet.


That's exactly what I will do. I will not mention reconciliation to her again untill she shows she cares.


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## crisis1008

Papa bear,

Do you really want to be with someone, if the only reason you can think of that would make them want to come back is for the child?

I mean, don't people generally say that staying together for the children does not work?

If you only reconcile for the sake of the child, without love in your hearts, then you may only grow to resent one another, thus harming the child as a result of him/her witnessing the two of you being unkind to one another in some way.

As far as trust goes, it is a choice. As you already know I have the same issue your wife does. My husband and I were separated for 10 months, and he wants a polygraph test. He and you do not realize that trust is a choice. My husband was dating at least four different women that I know of while we were separated, and says he did not sleep with any of them. I chose to trust him, as I know that he would never cheat on me while we were together. I had to ask myself if I really mattered whether or not he had. I told myself that I did not. If he did sleep with someone, I know that it would have to have been out of loneliness, because I do know that he loves me and would never want to go out of his way to hurt me. I chose to believe that it did not matter what he did, so long as whatever he did while we were separated resulted in his loving and appreciating me, unlike before the separation. If he has been with someone else, I have to deal with it. I told him when I left that we were getting divorced and that there was no chance for reconciliation. I told him there was no hope. I told him I was never coming back. Does it really matter in the long run. Not to me. I know that my husband would never cheat on me while we are together. We were separated with the idea that there was no chance for reconciliation. I left the door open for him to do whatever he wanted.

Maybe she has been with someone else. Maybe she hasn't. You may never know. In the case of my husband's being unsure of my actions while we were separated, like you, he has to decide whether or not he trusts me and believes me. If so, he needs to allow us to move on with our lives and be happy in love. If not, he needs to decide whether or not he can live with not knowing. If not, he needs to let me go, as I cannot live my life in that situation. Your wife will not be able to either. Maybe you should just assume and accept that she has slept with someone else, and that you know she has. Then find a way to move past what has happened. I mean, what more can you do? In my case, I almost wish I had slept with someone else. Then I could just tell my husband I had and be done with the whole ordeal. Or, if I had slept with someone else, maybe I would have been able to get over my husband and move forward toward being an indepent person, rather than codependent.

I really can only give you some insight into what your wife may be going through. Although, my husband and I were only separated for about 10 months. We only had time to go through our first holidays apart. In your case, 2.5 years had gone by and neither of you really considered the idea of reconciling. I mean, what was really keeping either of you from moving on? In my case, wounds will still fresh after 10-months. I also must say that I did wish that I had been able to date the time. All I wanted was to get over my pain and heartache. However, the one date I did agree to, I stood up. Then, sent a sorry text the next day and never spoke to him again. I was telling myself and everyone around me that I was divorcing my husband and moving on, but in 10 months had made no moves toward independence.

All you can do is ask yourself if you can live with it, and forgive her for what she may or may not have done while you were separated.


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## crisis1008

If you don't mind my asking, why don't you believe her?


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## Papa Bear

crisis1008 said:


> Papa bear,
> 
> Do you really want to be with someone, if the only reason you can think of that would make them want to come back is for the child?
> 
> I mean, don't people generally say that staying together for the children does not work?
> 
> If you only reconcile for the sake of the child, without love in your hearts, then you may only grow to resent one another, thus harming the child as a result of him/her witnessing the two of you being unkind to one another in some way.


Crisis, Even though our marriage is all ashes, there is a spark. The spark is I believe she is a good wife and she loved me with all her heart. When I said "why woul'd we get back together when you got no feelings, she said, how do I know that". I know she feels something, maybe just a little.

Also there would be no fights if we enter the marriage ready. I have learned a lesson, so has she, there would be a whole lot of respect.



crisis1008 said:


> As far as trust goes, it is a choice. As you already know I have the same issue your wife does. My husband and I were separated for 10 months, and he wants a polygraph test. He and you do not realize that trust is a choice. My husband was dating at least four different women that I know of while we were separated, and says he did not sleep with any of them. I chose to trust him, as I know that he would never cheat on me while we were together. I had to ask myself if I really mattered whether or not he had. I told myself that I did not. If he did sleep with someone, I know that it would have to have been out of loneliness, because I do know that he loves me and would never want to go out of his way to hurt me. I chose to believe that it did not matter what he did, so long as whatever he did while we were separated resulted in his loving and appreciating me, unlike before the separation. If he has been with someone else, I have to deal with it. I told him when I left that we were getting divorced and that there was no chance for reconciliation. I told him there was no hope. I told him I was never coming back. Does it really matter in the long run. Not to me. I know that my husband would never cheat on me while we are together. We were separated with the idea that there was no chance for reconciliation. I left the door open for him to do whatever he wanted.


It is not just about choice. The choice would be if you know it then would you forgive or not. What if she caught some STD and passed it onto me? NO choice, truth only.

You love your H too much and you do not even care if he slept with someone or not




crisis1008 said:


> All you can do is ask yourself if you can live with it, and forgive her for what she may or may not have done while you were separated.


I didn't move on because I hoped we would reconcile. If you read my first post you will know better. She was all about reconciliatioon until she served me with divorce papers one day. She kept me in false hope for a year. After that startet the real "grieving" period. 

Another reason I haven't been with no one else is due to my sexual health.

I could live with it if she admitted, if she didn't do it then marriage counseling would hep, which she avoids.


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## Papa Bear

crisis1008 said:


> If you don't mind my asking, why don't you believe her?


I don't mind you asking.

1) She is young, in her mid 20's, she has her needs.
2) Her libido is sky high (Due to my illness I couldn't satisfy her)
3) She accidentally sent me a text love text message (said it was to her gf) 
4) A picture of another guy fell from her wallet. 
5) She spent $3700 in 3 monts on her cell and the bill came to my house because we were both on the account. When I asked why such a huge bill she has no single excuse because she has a house phone.

I have now decided I will never bring up reconcialition issue to her ever again and am thinking to move on.

BTW, like I said, I would never have her take polygraph test but IMO your H will eventually stop thinking about it. It is the first several month or couple of years that are bothersome.


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## crisis1008

Wow. It would seem to me that she may have had some sort of relationship with someone while you were apart. Although, you were apart for 2.5 years. She obviously does not want to admit it. I am not sure if she does not want to admit it to you or herself. The phone bill is not what gets me. It is the picture and the love text that tell me something was going on. It does not appear that she will ever tell you the true extent of that possible relationship, but you pretty much know. The exact details here are not necessary. 

Do you want to reconcile? Do you want to forgive her? If you do, then stop racking your brain. Yes, trust is a choice. When someone has wronged you repeatedly, you choose not to trust that person any longer and become guarded. With the persons we love, we naturally want to trust them. You can choose to trust. I chose to trust and am happy with my decision (pertaining to fidelity). In no way am I telling you to trust her. That is something you have to decide. It may be harder to do for some, but it all depends on how much you want to trust.

As far as STDs are concerned, you can both agree to take blood tests before reconciling.

I guess what I am saying is that where there is a will, there is a way.

P.S. Thank you for the insight on my situation. It gives me a little hope.


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## Duddy

As a professional counselor and behavior consultant I've worked with hundred's of distressed couples, families and individuals. I think this is a great situation for you to reconcile with your wife. 

Your sense of insecurity is totally natural, particular given your loss of your wife the first time. It may be that you are "attachment injured" based on her ending the relationship the first time.

Her sense of emotional security likewise, may be linked to finical security for her own reasons. These may be some of your core-relationship needs. Just learning how to properly express, hear and acknowledge these needs can be very powerful. 

I think what's critical here is for you both to really learn some basic evidence-based communication and emotional repair techniques. It's so easy when you feel hurt and and unsafe to become self protectively angry. This turns a partner off and makes them defensive, which in term increases our sense of fear and hurt in a snowballing relationship destroying cycle. 

It's so important for you both to learn how to express and acknowledge those primary tender emotions, and to really learn how to soothe the secondary negative emotions.

Your wife's list of job searching requirements etc., represent secondary needs. The primary need, as I said, may be to feel safe and to have her security needs around financial security acknowledged and her anxiety soothed, in much the same way as you need to know that she will really be there for you and that she is being honest about relationships during your separation. 

Definitely do everything in your power to find and work and let her see that you are making the effort because you know it reflects one of her most important underling relationship needs. But learning how to really get her to express the need so you can really be there for her and soothe her will make it easier for both of you and strengthen your marriage. 

Really hearing her distress and comforting here will really motivate you to find and keep work to the best of your ability. This will help her to open up more to assure you of her full honesty so that you can start to really feel loved and protected emotionally. 

You can also work behaviorally with tasks lists like the one your wife provided. You can establish positive and corrective, behavioral momentum in your marriage by defining and meeting secondary needs (you follow her task list and she follows yours around 1 or 2 secondary relationship needs like sharing house work, parenting tasks work search etc), but hear and meeting those primary attachment-emotional needs have to come first. 

Duddy.


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## Papa Bear

Duddy said:


> As a professional counselor and behavior consultant I've worked with hundred's of distressed couples, families and individuals. I think this is a great situation for you to reconcile with your wife.
> 
> Your sense of insecurity is totally natural, particular given your loss of your wife the first time. It may be that you are "attachment injured" based on her ending the relationship the first time.
> 
> Her sense of emotional security likewise, may be linked to finical security for her own reasons. These may be some of your core-relationship needs. Just learning how to properly express, hear and acknowledge these needs can be very powerful.
> 
> I think what's critical here is for you both to really learn some basic evidence-based communication and emotional repair techniques. It's so easy when you feel hurt and and unsafe to become self protectively angry. This turns a partner off and makes them defensive, which in term increases our sense of fear and hurt in a snowballing relationship destroying cycle.
> 
> It's so important for you both to learn how to express and acknowledge those primary tender emotions, and to really learn how to soothe the secondary negative emotions.
> 
> Your wife's list of job searching requirements etc., represent secondary needs. The primary need, as I said, may be to feel safe and to have her security needs around financial security acknowledged and her anxiety soothed, in much the same way as you need to know that she will really be there for you and that she is being honest about relationships during your separation.
> 
> Definitely do everything in your power to find and work and let her see that you are making the effort because you know it reflects one of her most important underling relationship needs. But learning how to really get her to express the need so you can really be there for her and soothe her will make it easier for both of you and strengthen your marriage.
> 
> Really hearing her distress and comforting here will really motivate you to find and keep work to the best of your ability. This will help her to open up more to assure you of her full honesty so that you can start to really feel loved and protected emotionally.
> 
> You can also work behaviorally with tasks lists like the one your wife provided. You can establish positive and corrective, behavioral momentum in your marriage by defining and meeting secondary needs (you follow her task list and she follows yours around 1 or 2 secondary relationship needs like sharing house work, parenting tasks work search etc), but hear and meeting those primary attachment-emotional needs have to come first.
> 
> Duddy.


Duddy, thank you for reply.

I am willing to turn "180" and be the person she wants me to be. Not only for her, but for my self too. 

However, there is tremendous lack of trust. She says she will trust me if I fulfill these "conditions" but what about her. She was here today to pick up our child. She was showing me something on her cellphone when a message popped up saying " 1 new message from (name)". She quickly canceled it and continued.

After we were done looking at her home makeover photos I asked who is (name)?. Note that she is from Europe and that where we live there are not many ppl from her country.

She said what are you talking about. I said, the text message or IM message that just came. She got red in her face and said that's her cousin.

I said OK. 

But she is lying. She said she has no one and is not in touch with anyone. I just caught her lying. She doesn't have a cousin with that name I know her family.

What to do about it? Only one thing comes to my mind and that is to tell her, literally "Sorry, but I do not trust you, we will not be able to reconcile, if you have no one, find someone".

On the other hand, maybe I should be patient and wait.


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