# What to do? Emotional Affair?



## lola_b (Aug 28, 2009)

I've only been married since May this year and my husband and I have been together about 3 years before our special day. My husband was unemployed for about 4 months after finishing school (Jan. to April), I however, was working full time and he would just hangout at my place all day and look for jobs. I didn't mind.

We use facebook and play games on it etc., but he started playing poker and talking with a girl that lives near our city. I didn't mind, until I found out that he had called her almost daily while he was working out of the city (not where she lives) and racked up a huge bill with long distance minutes (we had a long distance relationship for about 9 months and he would hate when I called him because he didn't like talking on the phone). Needless to say, I was really upset and told him how much it hurt that he would call and talk to her and not to me...his wife.

I told him that I would really appreciate it if he would stop calling her and he never said yes...or no. So I've been checking in on his cell usage and have told him how much it hurts that he spends sooo much time talking to her on msn after he gets home from work (he also sometimes calls her while he's at work). He said he understands how much it hurts, but he's still doing it..WHY?! Last night I caught him on webcam with her while he was sitting across from me. I asked him "who're you camming with" and he said "I'm not?" and I said "then why is your cam light on?" (I also saw in the reflection that he was on cam with someone) and he said "oh, does it stay on when you take pictures?" and I said "I'm not $%&*ing stupid, you're on cam for her right?" and he went silent.

I don't think I've ever been so hurt before in my life. I've asked him to stop calling her, I wasn't really minding msn talking, but after last night I want him to never call her, delete/block her from msn and facebook. Am I wrong to want this? He says they're just friends (she's married and has 3 kids, but I guess her husband drinks a lot). I would also like to ask her to stop seeking emotional support from my husband to replace what she's not getting from hers....but I don't think that confronting her will help any...

It just seems like he's drawing away from me and going to her instead of him and I think that's what hurts the most. I feel like ever since he started talking to her, he has changed....I miss the guy I wanted to marry.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I don't understand the concept of emotional affair... is that like friendship with someone of the opposite sex without sexual activity?

How is that bad?

Friendships outside the marriage are good, aren't they?

as I honestly don't know what is meant by emotional affair.

Lets say he never slept with her... would it be ok for him to have a female friend? or is that an EF?


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

preso, EA is when you start talking to someone of the opposite sex about your personal life - things that should be sacred between a husband and wife. Since there is no proof of what lola's husband is talking about with the other woman, it is only conjecture that with all the contact he has had with this other woman that they are not just talking about poker. Especially when he will call the OW more than his wife. As a man, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that it is very difficult to talk to a woman - especially a stranger having problems in her marriage without getting the feeling of this other person taking an interest in you. There is something sensual about it and men don't really relate well to emotional talk with females without somewhere along the line picking up the feeling of intimacy. I would guess it's the same the other way around. Lola's husband is missing something from their relationship that he is getting from this OW. To answer your question, if the two opposite sex friend's conversation turns to personal feelings and emotions than the chemistry is there for something else. You may not agree but if there are some other guys on here that would like to chime in on this, I would welcome it.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

brighterlight said:


> preso, EA is when you start talking to someone of the opposite sex about your personal life - things that should be sacred between a husband and wife. .



so if you talked to a person of the opposite sex about very personal aspects of your life to gain insight into a problem or for advice
about some aspect of your marriage or spouse
perhaps a problem you could not work out yourself....... a person you in no way were interested in dating....
it would be an EF?

If so... I dont buy emotional affair concept.

I think to have an EF some flirting would have to be going on to call it that and not just talk about personal issues.

I am not familair with that term and don't think I undersatand it because to me, it seems like talking to someone of the opposite sex about very personal issues could just be seeking insight or advice.

I dont really understand how the "affair" part is 
concerning it...

what may I ask is so sacred between a husband and wife?
that you are not allowed to talk about it to anyone?


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2009)

One reason we don't have facebook/myspace or webcams; brings you too close and you can search for people. Many a marriage ruined by it.


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## Ingrid (Aug 12, 2009)

Emotional affair can mean different things; but basically, if you look more forward to talking with the other person than your spouse; if you get emotional "warm fuzzies" beyond typical friendship; if you are increasing the amount of time you spend talking with the EA person; if there's growing flirting going on; if you confide in daily things with the EA person that you normally would confide in with your spouse; if you start feeling as if you are "in love" with the EA person and feel dependent upon that person for your well being... then it's an Emotional Affair....

A lot of times, however I think people also use the term EA for online affairs that have turned very flirtatious and/or include cybersex, but because it's not real "physical" sex, they still call it an EA. 

However, cybersex can be very, very powerful. Do not accept it if someone says "oh, it's not cheating, it's just online, it's just like porn, nothing really happened." Yes, something DID happen, it can be more powerful than you would expect.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

preso, I think you are missing the point I am trying to make. 80 percent of the time it ends up bad. If the other person of the opposite sex was qualified, such as a counselor, that's different. Why is it he can't find a male friend to confide in? The person that he was playing online games with was a stranger - having marrital problems. This most of the time is more than just friendly advice. And it does not really matter if he is only confiding in a friend - you are thinking like my wife was. How about thinking of the other person in the marriage such as the original poster - is it OK to even have this "friend" if your spouse is suffering over it. I think not!


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I was a health care worker for a very long time.
I would often wish people would not tell me things and have scared/ private things...
but I found that is not the way life works... and people often do confide in others and seek advice when they are having problems. They could be out of coping mechanisms, at a loss of what to do... confiused how they feel.

For me to think there is a EA, there has to be flirting and sexual talk in the regaurd of sex between the 2 friends...
I guess I do not see things like you... but I am not the jealous type and am 50 years old...
and have worked with the public most of my adult life.

I would have neighbors come ask me things... crazy stuff...
and tell me very private things about themselves. partners and lives. I did not seek out this info....

I am not a jealous person by nature.... are you? maybe that is the difference... as I would be ok if my husband had a friend who was female... what would tick me off is if he went to FAMILY MEMBERS and told personal things !


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Nope. I am also almost 50 yrs old and not the jealous type. I am looking at this from a man's point of view. I did not appreciate my wife getting into the situation she got into because I know how MOST men think. It's not the same as woman. We don't get caught up in touchy feely things as much as woman. We have a different mind set. If you were a health care worker you probably know that. Men's motives are much more apt to be different then womans. I am sure that other men on here will probably understand where I am coming from. Also, as a health care worker, it is very possible that other people confided in you more because of that, that is the 20 percent I eluded to in my earlier post but in the everyday office setting, night scene setting, online setting, etc. things could be very different. You can see it all over this web site.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

To be honest... when I have sought relationship advice in real life... 
I never considered talking to a male ( I am female)...
my preference was females and SPECIFIC ones only... they had to be married and in a good relationship and much older and wise...

or I wouldn't say a thing.
So it goes without saying.... I have only spoken to a few people in my life about very personal relationship issues...

and 2 counselors... which I did not find as helpful as the type of female advice giver I sought out and prefered.

so this is an interesting point you make.

ok... something insightful to think about as the EA concept is not one I'm familair with... as I have NEVER in my life sought any relationship advise FROM a man...

Only ABOUT MEN !


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Concerning the concept of emotional affair...

I am thinking under what circumstance I would ever go to a man about my marriage or relationships I've been in with a man...

I cannot think of one except if it were a very old/ wise man who had been happily maried for a long time whom I knew was not in any way going to hit on me or take it the wrong way.
That would be the only man I would talk to about my husband and our marriage... or want advice from.. seek it from.

so, there might be some validity to this concept.

funny... I've never noticed any flirting going on with this site.
It's all around this site? 
hmmm

????


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## scarletblue (May 20, 2009)

I don't believe that having a friend of the opposite sex online is an emotional affair. However, if you are saying things to that person that you would not want your spouse to know about, there is a problem. When one person is online with someone of the opposite sex, and taking time, attention, and an emotional connection away from your real life......there is a problem!

I went through this with my hubby. It started out just joking around while playing an online game, and a month later, she sent him naked pics of herself.

Lola, if he is taking time and energy away from your relationship and giving it to this other woman, there is a problem. This sort of thing can go sideways real quick!

I also have issues with webcams. I understand that some people use them to keep in touch with family, etc..... Personally, I don't like them. I have never had a good exerience with them. I wouldn't want some strange woman looking at my hubby while he chats with her. What is the point? If it's online poker, then let it be just that and not get personal.


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## outinthecold (Apr 30, 2009)

Have you not read my thread

" It hurts sooooo bad right now..." by outinthecold

It is what happens when a woman forms an emotional bond with a man.


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## Treadingcarefully (Sep 1, 2009)

preso said:


> I am not a jealous person by nature.... are you? maybe that is the difference... as I would be ok if my husband had a friend who was female... what would tick me off is if he went to FAMILY MEMBERS and told personal things !


My wife was not talking to me, after a crazy argument she started, and never explained. She confided in another man, and they started to bond. It pushed a lot of buttons for her, cos he was dealing with alcoholism like her dad did, he's about the same age as her dad, and he wasn't getting on with his wife. She opened up to him, and they ended up sleeping together. It went on for 4-5 weeks until I found out, and she is still sending texts to him, and thinks it's okay to just tell him about her day, even though he says he is still drawn to her.
I told her that it is NOT okay. She can either be with me or him, and if she wants to be with him, she can't be with me. And if she doesn't want to be with him, then she shouldn't do anything that could be seen as leading him on.

If it was just a one night stand I wouldn't feel so bad, but she told him things about our relationship, and also painted a very unfair picture of me to him, and when she broke up with him, she spent ages talking to him to make sure he didn't feel let down too badly. She didn't do that with me when we had a huge argument, and I'm still very angry about that. 
When someone is your companion, they are supposed to watch out for your feelings and vice versa. If they can open up to someone else and not to you, it's a problem that should be addressed, not bypassed.


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## tattoomommy (Aug 14, 2009)

lola_b said:


> I've only been married since May this year and my husband and I have been together about 3 years before our special day. My husband was unemployed for about 4 months after finishing school (Jan. to April), I however, was working full time and he would just hangout at my place all day and look for jobs. I didn't mind.
> 
> We use facebook and play games on it etc., but he started playing poker and talking with a girl that lives near our city. I didn't mind, until I found out that he had called her almost daily while he was working out of the city (not where she lives) and racked up a huge bill with long distance minutes (we had a long distance relationship for about 9 months and he would hate when I called him because he didn't like talking on the phone). Needless to say, I was really upset and told him how much it hurt that he would call and talk to her and not to me...his wife.
> 
> ...


definitely needs to stop. i watched my dad have an emotional affair on my mom that developed into a big time affair that's a huge embarassment for not only my family, but my inlaws as well (they worked in the same area). the emotional part he didn't feel bad about to be honest. didn't see it as cheating or anything. but that part hurt my mom the most. he definitely needs to stop and choose YOU over HER.


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## sidlyd (Aug 21, 2009)

Nothing good can come out of your husband communicating with this other woman. I'm sure he wouldn't want you communicating with another man. Its just not right.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

You guys see my point exactly. It just is not conducive to a happy marriage becuase it's going to upset your spouse.


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## outinthecold (Apr 30, 2009)

You need to kick him in the balls


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

I agree with outinthecold but that would be just a temporary high for you while he is writhing in pain on the ground rolling. Afterwards, it may just push him away even more. I think the subtle approach is better, like tell him he needs to leave if he continues his EA. Maybe that'll wake him up and let him know how serious you are. If he keeps this up, you are probably going to end up getting hurt worse than you are right now. I hope everything works out for you because I have been there and it is painful, I can only imagine how bad it must be for a newly wed.


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

I think you need to tell your husband that he absolutely cannot have the both of you. His behavior is selfish whether it's his intention to be that way or not. 

No one deserves to be trapped in a relationship with someone who makes them torture themselves with self depreciating thoughts which I can only imagine are inevitable in this situation. 

You shouldn't have to sit there and wonder if you'll ever be enough for your husband. You deserve more than being someone's back burner especially when that someone is a person who vowed to devote himself to you and your life together. 

I wouldn't threaten to leave or anything just yet, but I would definitely make it clear that if this is going to continue that HE should leave. Maybe it hasn't occurred to him that there will be a person who will only want you and only need you. 

By his blatant disregards of your requests to cease contact with her, I can't imagine he considers you separating to be a possibility. Not even remotely.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

W, well said. Those were my thoughts as well. And it's better to try to shut his behavior down now before it escalates into something else. In my situation I was like lola, just steaming inside, riddled with anger and guilt and pain and all it ended up doing to me was turning me into a resentful person. If I had it to do over again, I would have caused a scene - fought for my marriage. It may have driven her away but then on the other hand, at least I would have done what was right and tried to fight for us. It would have been terrible at first but I would have felt better in knowing that I did what I had to do to fight for me and my marriage. And she may also have seen it as me caring for her so who knows but all I do know is that the biggest mistake I made was not dealing with it no matter how ugly it got.


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

Thank you, brighterlight.

Fighting for your marriage is hard, especially when you're not sure if anything but rejection is at the end of the battle for you. You can never know if it would change things but you're right, the regret isn't something I imagine is easy to live with. It'll feel like you let it slip right between your fingers if you don't think you did everything you could. 

To the OP, I think it's also important to consider what it will take for things to be salvaged.


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## lola_b (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks for all your thoughts and comments, I really appreciate it.

The next morning I sent him a link outlining what an emotional affair is...and I saw him read it (thanks Wikipedia!!). He didn't say anything and neither did I. I think he got the point that night when I asked him why he invests so much time and effort in their friendship and not me. He said he didn't have an answer but he looked sick to his stomach after I had caught him.

I've told him to stop calling her and I've basically been sitting on top of him every evening watching who he chats to and I haven't seen them msging...but that doesn't mean that they aren't txting during the day. I also don't know what they talk about. He says she has funny stories about her kids, etc....but who knows.

I haven't asked him to delete her yet, but if I see one more phone call...that's the last straw and so far it's been a couple days....so hopefully he's getting the hint.

Even if he deletes her from facebook/msn....they still have each other's numbers and I have no way to monitor it...except phone calls. 

He's also been kind of going through a bit of depression...maybe second thoughts on getting married (I have another thread started in the General area called Newly Wed Problem(s), maybe check it out for some background info.

Thanks again everyone!!!


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

outinthecold said:


> Have you not read my thread
> 
> " It hurts sooooo bad right now..." by outinthecold
> 
> It is what happens when a woman forms an emotional bond with a man.


i can tell by your lack of abs how bad it hurts right now


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## CarolineMRF (Sep 2, 2009)

Get off facebook and every other piece of Internet junk...It's a killer to a relationship...Throw the web cams away...They are trouble for a marriage...You have a guy that gets hot and bothered and a woman on the other end doing her thing...She is getting off and he is following her dance step right along with her...Cyber sex is a dangerous game..Now you add pictures to it and you have lit the fire...Maybe her husband is a drunk and maybe she is just playing the sex game...Either way, turn the camera off and stop finding friends on the Internet...If a relationship needs this, it is in trouble from the start.....


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

lola, "funny stories about her kids". Wow, it's like I am looking at a reflection of my wife's comments 12 years ago. While she was going to lunches with the OM, and I was pleading with her to stop, she would tell me that they just talk about our kids and how the kids are doing this and that. Geeezzz! Is there a manual for how to conduct a proper EA! This is almost comical.

It p***sses me off. Get him to cease ALL contact with the OW or you may find yourself battling bigger demons. I hope and pray that you can work it out with him.


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## Mama Bertha (Aug 19, 2009)

Misery likes company. He could be upset that he doesn't have a job and with the help of this women feeling either lonely or depressed about something he may feel that talking to her is helping her. So he's doing something good helping her feel better which in turn makes him feel better. Also, with you working and doing other things he may feel anytime you confront him on this your not willing to understand because it is another women. And you may start looking like the always argumentive bad guy but your not I know...just trying to give you insight on maybe what he might be thinking...just a thought.


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## tattoomommy (Aug 14, 2009)

Mama Bertha said:


> Misery likes company. He could be upset that he doesn't have a job and with the help of this women feeling either lonely or depressed about something he may feel that talking to her is helping her. So he's doing something good helping her feel better which in turn makes him feel better. Also, with you working and doing other things he may feel anytime you confront him on this your not willing to understand because it is another women. And you may start looking like the always argumentive bad guy but your not I know...just trying to give you insight on maybe what he might be thinking...just a thought.


he should find another man to talk to then. to be completely honest, anytime you confide in a member of the opposite sex rather than your spouse I think it is just breeding trouble. friends are fine, but not when you count on their confidence over your spouse.


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## lola_b (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks Mama for your comments...and everyone else.

We had a talk today when he got home from work, it started out as where we are headed and it ended up being about our childhood upbringing. He was raised with pretty strict parents and feels like he missed out on what most kids do (parties, going out, etc.). He also didn't have a lot of friends growing up and relied a lot on the friends he made via chat....so I think it's more of a comfort zone for him to talk to people online. I want to help him become for confident with his social skills with real people...but I'm not really sure I know how to...


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

One thing you can try is planning some time out with other married couples...go to a ball game or comedy club where you are with other people and have small chat but don't feel obligated to have long conversations. Once he has a few fun outings with these people, he will likely be more comfortable going out to dinner, etc. with them. And try to stay by his side at parties, etc. if he doesn't know anyone so you can mingle as a couple and chat about things that the two of you share so he feels invited into the conversation without being pressured.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

:iagree: Swedish, excellent ideas.


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## lola_b (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks Swedish, I love your ideas. It's just hard to meet another couple we can do things with....there should be a website where couples can meet other local couples to hang out! Like a dating service....but only for people looking for friends!

Maybe I'll go see if I can find something like that now...


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## outinthecold (Apr 30, 2009)

Just kick him in the balls

make us all feel better


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## lola_b (Aug 28, 2009)

I wish I could outinthecold. I did however write a letter to my husband this morning telling him how I feel and gave him 2 options.

#1 Remove her from your life and work on us.

Stop the contact with her, call her tonight on speaker phone with me there to tell her they will no longer be talking. To help each other work on ourselves and with the help of a counselor if need be.

#2 Continue contacting her

I'm out tomorrow night (his parents are in town this weekend) and HE tell his parents why I'm leaving (due to his not ending the emotional affair).

I left the note in his closed lap top. I told him to really think about which decision he makes and how that decision will affect his future. I'm tired of being disrespected.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Lola, Simple, sad, tough, but right on the money. You gave him a black and white option with regards to the affair, and IMHO, that's exactly how it needs to be. I hope and pray that he choses wisely.


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## lola_b (Aug 28, 2009)

Ty brighterlight, I really hope he does too...


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Good luck, Lola. I'm glad you're holding your ground.


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## ladycar (Jul 24, 2009)

So what has happen with your hubby? EA are not easy to get over am trying but it's hard I just want to kill her and beat him.


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## lola_b (Aug 28, 2009)

I actually never gave him the note, his parents were in town and I didn't feel it was right to give it to him the day they got here...so I have it hidden for now.

I basically broke down the night I was going to give him the note and I think it finally hit him that what he is doing is wrong, I haven't seen any calls to her on his cell phone usage...but I know she's still on his facebook and most likely his cell. 

I think something clicked for him Monday night, he said that he thought he could be depressed because he didn't think he felt the same about me as he did prior to getting married. I told him to tell me that he doesn't want to be married to me any more if he didn't want to be with me, but he couldn't say it for himself. Finally we went to bed and he broke down and asked me what's wrong with him. I told him nothing...everyone has second thoughts either before and/or after they get married...that's NORMAL and he basically hugged me harder than he ever had before and we both fell asleep like that.

He quit his job on Tuesday and he's been doing pretty well, I think that has relieved a lot of unneeded stress/depression and has been treating me A LOT better. So we shall see how things keep going!


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## lola_b (Aug 28, 2009)

Thought I'd give a quick update.

I found out he had been spending time with this OW in person since the end of July, while I'd be at work. He took them to the park, to restaurants, he babysits her youngest sometimes and all the while he lied to my face about never having met her (but I had a gut feeling that they had met before) etc. I feel so betrayed. I gave him until tonight to cut off all communication with her.

You can check out my thread in the General Forum for more info.


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## mea_3 (Sep 13, 2009)

Ingrid said:


> Emotional affair can mean different things; but basically, *if you look more forward to talking with the other person than your spouse; if you get emotional "warm fuzzies" beyond typical friendship; if you are increasing the amount of time you spend talking with the EA person; if there's growing flirting going on; if you confide in daily things with the EA person that you normally would confide in with your spouse; if you start feeling as if you are "in love" with the EA person and feel dependent upon that person for your well being... then it's an Emotional Affair....*
> 
> .



:iagree: Ingrid has summed up an EA very well here. I had one and this is exactly what took place with my EA. Now, I think you should talk to your spouse and ask him to end contact with her. An EA can be a stepping stone away from a full blown PA.


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## LostInTheDesert (Nov 2, 2012)

brighterlight said:


> preso, EA is when you start talking to someone of the opposite sex about your personal life - things that should be sacred between a husband and wife. Since there is no proof of what lola's husband is talking about with the other woman, it is only conjecture that with all the contact he has had with this other woman that they are not just talking about poker. Especially when he will call the OW more than his wife. As a man, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that it is very difficult to talk to a woman - especially a stranger having problems in her marriage without getting the feeling of this other person taking an interest in you. There is something sensual about it and men don't really relate well to emotional talk with females without somewhere along the line picking up the feeling of intimacy. I would guess it's the same the other way around. Lola's husband is missing something from their relationship that he is getting from this OW. To answer your question, if the two opposite sex friend's conversation turns to personal feelings and emotions than the chemistry is there for something else. You may not agree but if there are some other guys on here that would like to chime in on this, I would welcome it.


Poker story - Being an unemployed programmer, I also had a Facebook account and my wife also. She turned to Farmville and I turned to Poker. During the course of playing I met some very "courteous" players and they added me as a buddy. This includes both male and female friends. My wife also became friends with her Farmville buddies. When I started putting in the same hours on poker as she had done on Farmville, she then started calling my friends poker "ladies of the night". I was typing all of nh, vnh, vvvnh, n1, sneaky and other one or two word congrats to the winning players. I would answer "desert" when players ask where everyone was from. Like the "ASL" of the early AOL and Yahoo chat days. She lost interest in Farmville and switched to activist work on Facebook, now she is online during all waking hours and most of the time is up all night. She has recently started accusing me of having emotional affairs with the people I play poker with. I then just started playing with one person, male from Europe and for the rest of the time, I would select random games or tournaments where I know no one at the table. The poker "ladies of the night" comments continued and grew worse. For me, poker is a mental relaxation exercise. Many times I type nothing. Buying a round for the table confirms the "kids" playing that usually involve rude comments and other harassment of the other players. I have quoted text and reported the player to Zynga. I am looking for a drama free game. 

Here is the question:
Does normal courteous poker chat constitute having an "emotional affair" as I am reminded of on a daily basis?

I love my wife and understand that since she thinks poker chat, visible to ALL players, is full of "emotional affair" content and I am told that all her posts and messages to her friends do not contain any EA references. "Not like your poker "ladies of the night" 

-LostInTheDesert


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## LastUnicorn (Jul 10, 2012)

You'll get more specific answers to your questions if you start your own thread, Lostinthedesert.  

But to answer your question, if you are just paying poker and not actively chasing or deepening the relationship with anyone online then no IMHO you are not having an EA. 

It is interesting though, that your wife seems to be spending all of her free time chasing other activities online. She may or may not be having her own EA & is projecting on you.

Why not sit her down & the two of you discuss honestly the time you are together, yet choose to spend that time chasing other means of entertainment rather than taking this opportunity to reconnect & strengthen your relationship?


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