# Separation & Confusion.



## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

I've realized something today that makes me incredibly sad.

Even though Estranged Husband sometimes treated me badly, he was the one person that contributed something positive to my life on a daily basis, the only one that actually seemed to give a damn about my goals and dreams and thoughts on a real-life and practical level. He was my very best friend. 

He'd started neglecting me and being distant and withdrawn and avoidant, become hypercritical and emotionally and verbally abusive sometimes, his anger was escalating and becoming volatile, he'd fight really unfairly and sometimes made me feel like crap for no reason I could tell…but, he was also the only one who was actually involved in my life. Discovering the emails of his that indicated he was cheating really, really, shocked and hurt me. It magnified the pain I felt about all his bad behavior previously because it was essentially the reason behind it all. 

I know that he felt betrayed by me when it was all exposed. He felt like I didn't listen to his side of things or protect him from censure. I tried, wanted to put all the cards on the table to find an honest solution to our problems, but he didn't try hard enough to give me his side because he laced it all with horrible verbal abuse and he denied, blame-shifted, gas-lighted…is still doing so. I've been patient in limbo, but, I really just think that I loved him more than he loved me…especially because I'm willing to forgive his horrible transgressions, while is isn't willing to forgive me for objecting to them. If I can forgive so easily, does it mean that what he did wasn't so bad? Why am I not angrier?

I miss him so much. And, there is no one in my life who has ever connected with me the way he did and I doubt anyone else will ever again. I hate myself for not being angrier about his misdeeds, but, more than I am angry at him for anything, I miss him.

I know I can't just call him. I'm supposed to be doing the 180 and even if I don't feel it, I'm trying to follow it because I understand its importance. He wrote me a few weeks ago, but it was a horribly dismissive email and it hurt me to read it, so I didn't reply. I don't know if I overreacted to his words or not. I think he was trying to provoke me and it almost worked, but I'm trying to stay firm. He's got me second guessing everything. Should I try to write him back? I'm afraid it would sound like I was pleading with him & that's not what I want to do.

Today was a horrible, very bad day. I keep looking for some kind of comfort and all I want is him, the old him, the him he used to be, even the him I thought he was before I discovered his deceit….but he's nowhere, if he ever existed, at all.

6 months of separation and today, it hurts as bad as D-Day.


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## jtango80 (Mar 19, 2012)

desert-rose said:


> I've realized something today that makes me incredibly sad.
> 
> Even though Estranged Husband sometimes treated me badly, he was the one person that contributed something positive to my life on a daily basis, the only one that actually seemed to give a damn about my goals and dreams and thoughts on a real-life and practical level. He was my very best friend.
> 
> ...



You know I am really sorry that you feel this way, believe me I can relate, and so can many people on here.

I think the biggest take away from the 180, and really I don't agree with a lot of it. Is that you need to set yourself up for success. Doing this will increase your desirability in their eyes.

My wife told me the same thing basically, that I was her best friend and I feel like I will never connect with someone the same way as I do with her, but honestly. The way she left me, just abandoning me and telling me she isn't coming home until I've left.. I did a lot of bad things, gambling and drinking.. but not to nearly the excess that she claimed. I worked for 3 years supporting her, I wasn't able to buy her everything she wanted and she resented me because I would buy myself things instead of her. Then she abandons me. You know, I understood why she did, but the longer i stay away, the more control I regain, and the more confident and powerful I become, because I realize one thing.

I had issues and I'm fixing them, I've been clean for 2 months, no casino or drinking and doing really well. I got an amazing job, my own Condo, and a bright future. If it involves her, she is more than welcome to come along, but I will come to a point where I've had enough, and I think that is the beauty of 180. No matter what ends up happening, you are prepared.

Just take care of yourself, and make yourself stronger, if theres any hope, this is the best way to do it. Focusing on pity and expecting him to care is naive and not likely to happen, (sorry to say). but if he sees you are doing well, that stuff is contagious.

Good Luck and all my heart goes out to you in your time of need.


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## jtango80 (Mar 19, 2012)

By the way, in regards to that bull**** about not contacting them.

This can work against you to. There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking with him if you both want to, or if he's available. Like MSN, or whatever.. I'm not sure of your situation but that is one of the aspects of 180 I don't agree with.

Withdrawing emotionally can be either a good thing or a bad thing, some withdrawal is helpful, but be very careful.

My wife and I have an agreement, if she's on MSN she wants to talk, if she's not, don't pester her.

I sent her 1 email a day and 99% of the time I talk to her everyday. If she's not on I can't pester to try and reach her, nor will I. I don't want to appear needy, or hurt by this.

Be strong!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Have you read the Marriage Builder material on Plan A and Plan B? Plan B is a lot like the 180... it's the very last thing you do. It usually leads to and end in the marriage. It's only done when you feel you have one everything you possibly can do and nothing has worked.

Take a look at Plan A and Plan B... links in my signature block below. Do some reading on their web site and see if it gives you have insight into if you think you should try Plan A when you can.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Look at the bright side first, he contacted you instead of cutting off all contact and filing a bogus restraining order.... That's about it, but I can tell you the blame shifting explaination is to be expected. Unfortunately he is going to place all blame on you for everything he feels you wronged him for and you're going to have to agree and take it if you want to get along without fighting. You take down your defences and he'll stop attacking you. You know he's just speaking out of hurt so don't take it personally. I got accusations that made me sound like a lifetime movie abusive husband and just agreed silently laughing it off because I knew it wasn't true.

You're right about him trying to provoke you as well, he will be looking for reasons to upset you when he's feeling bad just to reassure himself that leaving you was the right thing to do. Again I've seen this quite a few times with my W. Be on the lookout because he knows how to push al you buttons. So you've really got to take a step back and look for the underlying meaning in what he says. He will also most likely try to make you jealous of the OW. Don't say I didn't warn you honey!

To be honest your thread cheered me up because hearing that you missed your H after he was angry and neglectful reassures me that my wife will miss me. I was a lot like your H after discharge from the Navy and regret treating my best friend and soul-mate so poorly. So thank you for that, and if it's any consolation know that he feels terrible about this or will later when he comes to the same conclusions.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

Nsweet -- True, he does still contact me. Unfortunately, much of his communication is full of insults, verbal abuse, & threat. It feels like he's trying to bully me into believing that I imagined his misdeeds & punished him unfairly and like he wants me to accept his punishment until he feels better. I try not to get mad when I reply to him, but sometimes, weeks go by between exchanges. He insists that I kicked him out; it wasn't like that, but he is holding on to that instead of talking to me about what he did that brought us to that point. He'll insist he only loves me; I'll ask him, "so why did you do these things? I just want to understand" and he will shut down the conversation with something nasty to avoid it. I haven't given up on him, I'm honest and sad and forgiving but not angry, and yet....he's angry enough for the both of us, but is directing it at me.  

Elegirl & jtango -- I've read the Marriage Builders materials. He and I were going to try that before we ended up separated. Now, communication feels impossible.

I'm considering replying to the email, but I'm not asking for a reconciliation because it doesn't look like he wants one and I'm not sure it would be wise until we deal with the issues. Would it be a terrible idea to reply to his email and ask him to address the questions I asked? I drafted one. I say I'm not asking him for anything except to hear my words and explain to me what caused him to act the way he did.

Is that a bad idea?


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Bad idea, but go ahead and post it so we can see it. You're asking him to explain how he feels about you when clearly he is not in his right mind. If it didn't work before it's not going to work the next time. You've got trust me on this one and agree with his bogus claims then apologize sinserely and without defence, because he will not talk to you in a friendly way until you side with him. 

You're going to have to lay your weapons down and wave the white flag first if you want him to stop attacking you. Give him some time after this and expect a very defensive accusation twisting all the problems around on you. It's going to seem maddening at first but will pay off when he starts to warm up to you again. I Know I had to apologize to my W for "rape" for licking her after a nude full body massage like she loved a few months earlier. She was looking for excuses to leave me for the OM. I agreed and apologized then she tore up the bogus restraining order.

You shouldn't be concerned with reconciliation just yet. The first step is going to be getting the two of you talking at least once a month without fighting.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

Nsweet said:


> You're asking him to explain how he feels about you when clearly he is not in his right mind.
> ...agree with his bogus claims then apologize sinserely and without defence, because he will not talk to you in a friendly way until you side with him. ...
> You're going to have to lay your weapons down and wave the white flag first if you want him to stop attacking you.
> ...
> You shouldn't be concerned with reconciliation just yet.


Nsweet, I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting that I do...What am I supposed to be apologizing for? 

I'm not asking him to tell me how he feels about me, just to tell me what the story is from his own perspective...I'm not fighting, just listening. Here's what it's like (Read my story on here, it sucks!):

Him: I didn't cheat, that's the end of discussion. You're just wrong.
Me: OK, your emails suggest otherwise b/c they're really explicit; you're saying I misunderstood. Do you want to tell me what I'm missing? Did you really think this was okay or did you just make some mistakes? What was happening in your POV?
Him: I'm so mad because you betrayed me by questioning me and now I'm going to kill you and your family brutally because I'm a monster full of rage.
Me: You're not a monster. I know you're mad because this whole thing sucks and it sucks for me too, but you're better than that and I still love you and know you're going to be ok, so calm down.
Him: You don't know me! You don't know what I'm capable of!
Me: OK. I know you're capable of bad stuff, but doing it isn't going to help anything. When you're under control, we should talk about what went wrong. 
Him: You made it seem like I was a monster when I only treated you the way you deserved.
Me: OK. You didn't mean to hurt me, but some things were a problem and we need to discuss them, eventually. But, it's in the past. You wanna talk about what happens next between us?
Him: I'm not going to bother reading all your words because they're empty. I hate you. You're evil and worthless. You screwed me over when all I ever did was love you. Maybe things will work out one day, but you're too big a crybaby to find out, so who knows!
Me: I understand that you feel bad and I'm sorry; we can talk when you're not mad.
(Repeat cycle for 6 months....)

My email reply (unsent) just asks him to tell me his side of the story since he feels I've misunderstood something, but also says I'm not asking for a reconciliation, just a discussion about what went wrong or what he thinks I'm not getting. 

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. He was my best friend and the one who always made me feel safe until he start cheating and then treating me like crap.  I always compromise and forgive. 

Maybe he wants me to be mad for a change?


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## Dia (Mar 23, 2012)

desert-rose said:


> 6 months of separation and today, it hurts as bad as D-Day.


I know exactly how you feel. I'm just starting. Mine is a complete emotional separation, coming from him, but circumstances forces me to still live under the same roof until I sort things out for me. I get to see him every day, but I also get to see him not loving me, every day. Its murder.


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## SilverPanther (Feb 2, 2012)

Desert_rose- I have come to realize after dealing for so long with the insansity my husband spewed at me, that sometimes rational discussion and a logical explanation from him of his feelings or behaviors is impossible. I wish you luck with your e-mail, certainly if you feel strongly you should send it, you should give it a shot. I have gotten to the point with my husband I am afraid of him, afraid of what he is capable of in the state he is in, and I feel that talking to him only makes it worse. I tried over and over again to talk to him, to try and reason with him, to convey to him why I was doing what I was doing, and all I got were threats and horrible insults.

I'll go one further. My stbxh not only was involved with another woman while with me, I *knew* about it, and while he never had my blessing, he had my consent because I never demanded he stop it, because I loved him THAT much, that I believed he must have good justifications for what he ws doing, and that I just had to try and be understanding. Isn't that sad? What's sadder is instead of him appreciating that I put up with his actions, he resented me horribly because I was not MORE okay with it, because I wouldn't pretend it was perfectly normal and okay for him to have another woman in his life as well as his wife. For some people, it doesn't matter how much you do for them, they still want more. And that's a situation that is untenable. 

All that being said it's hard for me, too. I miss who he used to be all the time. This is not to say he was ever Prince Charming, but he is no longer the man I fell in love with, and I miss that person a lot. He taught me so much about life, and some of who I am now is because of him, and that's not a bad thing. I used to respect him greatly, before he fell to these depths. 

Good luck seeking reconciliation, but be careful. It sounds like he is a manipulator. And in my opinion, you can never truly trust a manipulator.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

Hi everyone.

I'm not really seeking reconciliation, just a conversation. He has been insisting that I have misunderstood his actions and horribly mistreated him. I've always tried my best to love him well, so if this is in some part an over-reaction by me and if I'm the one who is causing him pain and heart-ache, then I would want to fix it. So, I guess I just wanted to hear his perspective on that to see if in some way I am wrong or have been unfair or something...or just not really listened to his defense of himself. 

Reconciliation is only possible when both people want to communicate and work things out, not when one person dismisses the other entirely. I just wanted to be fair. I miss him and I don't want to believe that he behaved the way it looks like he has. Maybe I'm just trying to rug-sweep and pretend the stuff that happened never did.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

After almost 11 months of seeking answers to "why", I finally realized there was never going to be an answer that satisfied me. And if there was, it wasn't going to come from her.

And that is from a WS who _wants_ reconciliation, after cheating on me. She wants the discussion, admits her wrongdoing... I believe you need to sort of wake up to the fact that it is highly likely you will never get real, true, honest explanations from him (hell, you can't even get him to admit that there is anythign to explain).

He is too busy trying to manipulate and control you to actually stop and have the conversation that _you_ want to have (and you are buying into it). The reality is, you're trying to have a discussion about what he's done so that you can forgive him (and you would), while he's avoiding that topic altogether and deflecting it to having his own conversation about how angry you have made him -- classic abuser is to blame the victim...exactly what he is doing. And classic abuse victim is to buy into it. Exactly what you are doing.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

2xloser said:


> He is too busy trying to manipulate and control you to actually stop and have the conversation that _you_ want to have (and you are buying into it). The reality is, you're trying to have a discussion about what he's done so that you can forgive him (and you would), while he's avoiding that topic altogether and deflecting it to having his own conversation about how angry you have made him -- classic abuser is to blame the victim...exactly what he is doing. And classic abuse victim is to buy into it. Exactly what you are doing.


Maybe you're right. I've never felt comfortable with the word abuse, but manipulation does fit. He is manipulative. He is capable of being really amazingly good to me, when he wants to be...but maybe he just wants it all on his terms only. Maybe he just doesn't want things to work and it was wishful thinking on my part. It doesn't matter if I love him. It doesn't matter if I get over what he's done to me. He doesn't want to get over the fact that I objected to the bad parts. Maybe I just need to accept that he doesn't want to work it out, because that's what his actions are saying.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

desert-rose said:


> He is capable of being really amazingly good to me, when he wants to be...
> .....
> Maybe I just need to accept that he doesn't want to work it out, because that's what his actions are saying.


Always deal with the actions over any untrue or manipulative words. Always. And from the sounds of things, what else have you got from him to go by anyway, other than distant memories of some times when he chose to bestow his good graces on you -- before and after he cheated, then denied and lied? 

I am sorry for your pain, but I don't see how you can come to any other conclusion when all his actions say only one thing.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Ha, sounds lke my W. "It's all your fault.... Nevermind my cheating that was in the past. You hurt me, you hurt me, you're a bad person". Don't tell me for one minute you actually believe the hurtful words coming out of his mouth, he's just justifying his guilt by placing blame on you. Don't give him the satisfaction of degrading you like this and growing contempt. Stand up like you used to when you were "happily married" and he was being a d*ck. Except instead of playing his blame game or fighting over who is right you can take away the power he has by not playing at all. The next time he starts that crap just smile and jokingly say "I guess you're right". He gets what he wanted, admitting he's right, but loses the battle when you don't give him the fight. He knows he's wrong and no matter how this situation turns out he has to live with himself as a cheater who did his part to destroy the marriage. Stay strong knowing you're still a good person inside.


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