# Men need space?



## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

My husband of little over 5yrs told me a few weeks ago that he loves me but isn't "in love" with me and there is no passion or attraction anymore. He's sleeping in another bedroom and he's progressively becoming more distant from me. We've been to 3 marriage counseling sessions and he's been to another 3 individual sessions. Therapist says he may have attachment disorder due to his upbringing in foster care and an abusive physically and emotionally mother. He's been going out with friends about 2-3 times a week which he never ever did before. We have a 7 month old but he doesn't take responsibility of taking care of her. It's assumed that it's my job.

I've read things that I should give him space to deal with his feelings. I shouldn't pressure him to talk about his feelings or the marriage, don't tell him that I love him, don't try to show him the love we once shared, go out and do things on my own, etc. Is this true? Should I just give him space to figure it out?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

It's possible that the dramatic change in his life of becoming a parent, coupled with his dysfunctional upbringing, could explain his behavior. However, the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech, or ILYBINILWY, as it's called around here, combined with a sudden increase in his social life away from you, are red flags for infidelity. And dealing with those two situations require two different strategies.

You need to do some investigation to determine if he's cheating. Check his phone, phone records, Facebook and email activity, etc. If you find something suspicious, or if he guards or password protects his phone/accounts, then you need to check on the Coping With Infidelity board to learn how to investigate.

If he's cheating, you will need to go to the CWI board for advice on how to best confront him, expose the affair, and end it. You can't win your husband when he is focused on another woman.

If he's simply dealing poorly with the stress of being a father, than I would trust your counselor. Space may be the ticket. But you may need to force a little intimacy with your daughter. If he can go out 2-3 times a week, you should be able to go out once. Leave her in his care and go see a movie alone. At least run the idea past your counselor.

Good luck.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Sounds like what a cheater would say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

mablenc said:


> Sounds like what a cheater would say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed.

The more stressful crap that drags my husband down the more he clings to me for support and attention bc it lifts him up. It would be a serious red flag if he behaved the way your husband is behaving.But that's just him. Men aren't cut from the same cloth.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

No he isn't cheating. I know exactly where he is at and who he is with. His going out is to local college sporting events. He goes to the college basketball game with his co-worker, who I know. I check to make sure there is a game, and there is. Even the counselor doesn't think it's cheating.

Do I just keep giving him space to deal with his feelings? More than likely, this is due to his upbringing and maybe that he has always been used to me catering to his every need and now I'm not. When I had the baby, I was working full time and going to grad school. The first 6 months of our daughter's life I was working and going to grad school so there was very little time for him. I was NEVER in the mood for sex because I was so tired all the time. I know that was a huge huge issue for him. Since he told me that he didn't love me anymore and there was no attraction, he did initiate sex once, and I had sex with him. Then he told me the next morning that he was confused and didn't know why he did it and that he won't do it again. The next night he tried again and I said no because of what he had told me and because it tore me up inside. After that, he moved out of our bedroom. 

Is this all my fault?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

heartbroken0426 said:


> No he isn't cheating. I know exactly where he is at and who he is with. His going out is to local college sporting events. He goes to the college basketball game with his co-worker, who I know. I check to make sure there is a game, and there is. Even the counselor doesn't think it's cheating.
> 
> Do I just keep giving him space to deal with his feelings? More than likely, this is due to his upbringing and maybe that he has always been used to me catering to his every need and now I'm not. When I had the baby, I was working full time and going to grad school. The first 6 months of our daughter's life I was working and going to grad school so there was very little time for him. I was NEVER in the mood for sex because I was so tired all the time. I know that was a huge huge issue for him. Since he told me that he didn't love me anymore and there was no attraction, he did initiate sex once, and I had sex with him. Then he told me the next morning that he was confused and didn't know why he did it and that he won't do it again. The next night he tried again and I said no because of what he had told me and because it tore me up inside. After that, he moved out of our bedroom.
> 
> Is this all my fault?


I'm sure you made your share of mistakes.Putting him on the back burner was definitely one of them.But he's making a mistake by not allowing you the chance to bring the marriage back into center focus.It seems he doesn't want to give it a shot to improve for some reason.I'd be wondering why.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Yes you should give him space. 

But not for him to figure things out, space for you to figure things out.

You can't win him back by chasing him.

I'd argue that you can't win someone back at all, if they have decided they are hell-bent on alienating you.

What is important is to have an idea of 'why' he's alienating you.

Is he emotionally closed off?
Feeling stifled?
Having an affair?
Fallen out of love with you?
Feeling overwhelmed with responsibility?

It's almost never one thing.

And here is the most important part from my very personal perspective.

The 'why' doesn't matter. If he is actively taking steps to push you away, or demonstrate that he doesn't want you, and isn't communicating with you, then none of it is going to make sense anyway.

Knowing the 'why' doesn't change the circumstances.

So, you need to evaluate 'why' you should tolerate such behavior. And again, importantly, how much will you tolerate before you are unwilling to accept such behavior, or him as a partner.

I am currently partnered with someone whose fiance was behaving in the exact same manner you describe. Withdrawing from her. Finding fault with her character traits that he previously found endearing. Telling her she couldn't show up at his place unannounced any longer. Less loving. More critical. More withdrawn.

All the while she tried even harder to love him more, give him more, be more understanding, be more communicative, be more supportive.

He of course, had been having an affair for nearly a year. 

I'm not suggesting this is the case with your husband. But I would be remiss to suggest that it is a strong possibility amongst a host of others.

Figure out what YOU need from this relationship. What you need for an outcome.

If your partner cannot, or will not provide you with those things, you need to reevaluate your boundaries and priorities. 

I'm sorry for your pain. Many here understand it very clearly.

My simple advice; don't chase. It simply doesn't work ... ever.

Take care of yourself.

Decide what your deal-breakers are. Right now. And stick to them.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Scarlet....I am wondering why. He makes it a priority to go to counseling whenever our therapist has an opening. His job means so much to him and he works so hard at it. He makes the time no matter how in convenient it is to leave work and attend not only couples counseling but individual counseling as well. That has to mean something, right even though he doesn't actually say it to me?


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

While he is sleeping in the other bedroom does he have a phone or computer with him?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

heartbroken0426 said:


> Scarlet....I am wondering why. He makes it a priority to go to counseling whenever our therapist has an opening. His job means so much to him and he works so hard at it. He makes the time no matter how in convenient it is to leave work and attend not only couples counseling but individual counseling as well. That has to mean something, right even though he doesn't actually say it to me?


wow well that does say something,to me at least.

I agree w/Deejo on taking care of yourself and not chasing him at this point.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Deejo,

I have learned that chasing does not work....not at all. 

I am trying to figure out where I stand. Part of me wants to stay around because of our daughter. I don't want a broken family for her. We have never had a dysfunctional marriage. There was never abuse, disrespect, too much fighting, etc. It was just the normal stuff. So it's not like it's a bad environment for our daughter. That's why part of me wants to work things out.

The other part of me wants to run for the hills. He has never been a fantastic husband but I was still overall happy in my life with him. I'm scared that if we get through this current situation then what if it happens again down the road?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

heartbroken0426 said:


> No he isn't cheating. I know exactly where he is at and who he is with. His going out is to local college sporting events. He goes to the college basketball game with his co-worker, who I know. I check to make sure there is a game, and there is. Even the counselor doesn't think it's cheating.


Yeah, our MC didn't think my husband was cheating on me, either. Except he was, and had been, and would again before the marriage ended. Therapists are not immune to being fooled, or even simply wrong. 

How do you actually know there's no affair going on? Because there are no attractive women at college sporting events? Because if there's a game, it's somehow impossible for him be shagging his girlfriend in the car in the parking lot? Because no guy ever covered for his buddy with the wife? 

You need to check his cell phone call log, his texts and IM's, his emails, and any other means that would allow one human being to communicate with another without being face to face. Until you've done that, you really don't know whether or not he's having an affair. Not really. 

That said, I'm sure there have been issues in the marriage. He may legitimately have felt marginalized after the baby arrived. He might have felt sexually neglected. Some of that may really be your fault. Some of it may be his. But he's not really doing a whole lot to reconnect or to resolve these issues with you. Instead, he's out having fun, sleeping in another room, leaving your child 100% on you, and giving you classic cheater's script to work with. Even if he's not in an affair, is this really what you want for yourself and your child, long term?


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

mablenc said:


> While he is sleeping in the other bedroom does he have a phone or computer with him?


Mablenc,

No he doesn't have his phone with him. He has his tablet with him, but his laptop sits in our family room open for me to look at.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

heartbroken0426 said:


> Mablenc,
> 
> No he doesn't have his phone with him. He has his tablet with him, but his laptop sits in our family room open for me to look at.


Have you checked the browsing history of the tablet? I am sorry, this is just so common now days.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Rowan,

I have checked his phone, e-mails, etc and there are no signs of cheating that I have found. He could be very good at hiding it. Believe me....I've been looking. I feel like it'll actually be easier for me to deal with if I knew he was cheating. There just isn't any red flags for "cheating" that I'm seeing. I really really think that his childhood is playing a HUGE role in this. That's what makes this situation different from many other peoples situations.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Have you checked the browsing history of the tablet? I am sorry, this is just so common now days.


yes


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

heartbroken0426 said:


> Scarlet....I am wondering why. He makes it a priority to go to counseling whenever our therapist has an opening. His job means so much to him and he works so hard at it. He makes the time no matter how in convenient it is to leave work and attend not only couples counseling but individual counseling as well. That has to mean something, right even though he doesn't actually say it to me?


Sadly, no.
It may very well be that.
It may also be that your partner attends counseling so that you think that very thing. It's cover, not commitment. 

I can also tell you that the outcome of counseling isn't always about reconciling. Sometimes, if the therapist is on the ball, they will make it clear that the relationship can't be salvaged.

This was the case with my ex and I.

Everyone here understands that you want to recover your marriage. We want that too. We also want you to be aware that no marriage is worth recovering if it costs you all of your self-respect.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Sadly, no.
> It may very well be that.
> It may also be that your partner attends counseling so that you think that very thing. It's cover, not commitment.
> 
> I


yikes,I guess I'm far too optimistic bc his counseling efforts impressed me


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Is it possible he is having a midlife crisis?


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Scarlet - His efforts to attend counseling gives me hope as well. He insisted right away that we go to counseling as soon as possible. If you knew him and how precious his time is to him...then you'd be impressed that he's making such an effort. He's even doing the homework the counselor asks us to do.

Mablenc - I think maybe. He's 38yrs old and he's built this life that is so boring and black and white. He's so regimented. He gets up, goes to work, comes home and does it again the next day. He has expressed to me that he feels pressure because we have dogs and can't go anywhere overnight because of them. He's also expressed that his 40min commute weighs on him because it's just wasted time and he gets frustrated. I think part of the reason he's been going out lately is because he's trying to change his life or do something different.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Well he feels the need to be with others. Any female at work close to him?

When was the last time you went out with him alone? or taken a vacation?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

ScarletBegonias said:


> yikes,I guess I'm far too optimistic bc his counseling efforts impressed me


Really not trying to sound like a party-pooper.

I think it's great that someone makes an effort. Here is the important part. And what was obvious to me while my ex and I were attending.

She would sit there, agree, share, participate and seemingly take it all in. We would be given 'homework'.

Then when we left the session? Nothing. No effort, no discussion, and there was always an excuse, about why the homework didn't get done.

Pay attention to what your partner does, not what they say.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

heartbroken0426 said:


> Mablenc - I think maybe. He's 38yrs old and he's built this life that is so boring and black and white. He's so regimented. He gets up, goes to work, comes home and does it again the next day. He has expressed to me that he feels pressure because we have dogs and can't go anywhere overnight because of them. He's also expressed that his 40min commute weighs on him because it's just wasted time and he gets frustrated. I think part of the reason he's been going out lately is because he's trying to change his life or do something different.


He did change his life. He had a baby with you. Yet, he is doing everything but taking care of that baby. What does the MC say about that?


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Mablenc - We took a trip ourselves in Oct. I thought we had a great time. We haven't been anywhere alone since then because a week after our trip, he went on his trip with his brother and when he came home things went downhill. He said that when he was on his trip with his brother it was like a weight had been lifted off of his shoulders and he felt free. It was an eye opener.

Deejo - I'm sorry you had such a bad experience but I think you are projecting your experience on my situation. I know you are simply offering advice but being as pessimistic as you are, it's not helping. I have a daughter to think about. If we didn't have her, I would've threw in the towel and left but I am going to make an effort because of her. She deserves that.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

norajane said:


> He did change his life. He had a baby with you. Yet, he is doing everything but taking care of that baby. What does the MC say about that?


Norajane - The MC hasn't tackled that yet. She really thinks it's his past upbringing that has led him to feel this way. He hasn't really attached to anyone because of his past...including me. He doesn't do a good job staying in touch with people or being social. He has friends but he used to rarely go out with them, and he doesn't keep in contact with them. They've expressed frustration but he doesn't change. He has an aunt whom he is very very close to. They have a wonderful relationship....except that he doesn't keep in contact with her. She gets to talk to him about once every 6 months or when they visit or we go visit.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

I am incredibly suspicious about what happened on that trip with his brother.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

heartbroken0426 said:


> Deejo - I'm sorry you had such a bad experience but I think you are projecting your experience on my situation. I know you are simply offering advice but being as pessimistic as you are, it's not helping. I have a daughter to think about. If we didn't have her, I would've threw in the towel and left but I am going to make an effort because of her. She deserves that.


Ouch ... I'm sorry that my posts have come across as damning or pessimistic. Not my intention. Sharing a perspective and my experience. Sincerely, hope your experience is different.

My stuff is all in the rear view mirror. I have 2 young children. Ex and I get along very well. Been apart for over 5 years.
Can only assure you I'm not bitter, and apologize if it appears that I'm projecting. 

I'm not trying to tank your marriage, promise. Believe me, I'm a sucker for happy endings.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

heartbroken0426 said:


> Norajane - The MC hasn't tackled that yet. She really thinks it's his past upbringing that has led him to feel this way. He hasn't really attached to anyone because of his past...including me. He doesn't do a good job staying in touch with people or being social. He has friends but he used to rarely go out with them, and he doesn't keep in contact with them. They've expressed frustration but he doesn't change. He has an aunt whom he is very very close to. They have a wonderful relationship....except that he doesn't keep in contact with her. She gets to talk to him about once every 6 months or when they visit or we go visit.


From my perspective, this is actually the most important thing that should be tackled, and tackled right away. If he doesn't bond with his daughter now, he may never do so. In fact, your child may very well be one of the biggest reasons he is acting the way he is now - becoming a father has made him feel trapped in his life (not freeeeee!). He might have resentment toward her already.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

zillard said:


> I am incredibly suspicious about what happened on that trip with his brother.


That was my feeling as well. 

How is his brother? As in, what kind of personality, aproach to life, is he married too? Do they party together or play parcheesi? Those kinds of things. I guess I'm looking for something a little toxic, because things changed so drastically on that one event. That's how it sounds, maybe I read you wrong. And where did they go on that trip?

We're just trying to get info to help analyze the situation. You know all the details; we're trying to assemble it in our heads.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Really not trying to sound like a party-pooper.
> 
> I think it's great that someone makes an effort. Here is the important part. And what was obvious to me while my ex and I were attending.
> 
> ...


I totally get where you're coming from on that one. My ex went through the motions during counseling in hopes to have an easier divorce settlement.He did it in order to look better in the eyes of the mediator even though it was a no fault divorce.

He was all talk and no action as well.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I totally get where you're coming from on that one. My ex went through the motions during counseling in hopes to have an easier divorce settlement.He did it in order to look better in the eyes of the mediator even though it was a no fault divorce.
> 
> He was all talk and no action as well.


Mine went to joint and solo sessions as well, without doing the homework or changing her behavior. 

I firmly believe she did so to alleviate her own guilt. So she could say that she "tried really hard" - a line she used frequently. 

I also believe most of her issues stem from her childhood. But that does not excuse bad behavior as an adult. 

Does he need space? Probably. 

The question is how much space can you give him without harming yourself and your daughter?

What do YOU need?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Given that you have investigated his communications and haven't found evidence of an affair, I think it's prudent to proceed as if he has been faithful. Yes, he could be cheating and covering his tracks well, but it's unlikely.

I think the most likely reason he's withdrawn is that he's stressed about being a new parent, that you responded to being a new mother by focusing on your baby to the point of neglecting him, and that his coping mechanism is to shut down. That's a common dynamic for new parents.

It's too early for you to make life decisions that will affect not only you, but your child as well. You're both still adjusting. It's possible that you can both learn from your mistakes and provide better for each other, as well as your child.

Keep up your homework with the counselor and, hopefully, you will eventually be able to look back on this as two new parents coping badly with the stresses of having a child.

Good luck.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Deejo nailed it.

This really does sound like the classic case of a man having an affair and wanting out. 

Maybe he didn't cheat/isn't cheating, but it sounds exactly like the cheater's script. 

Nonetheless--Deejo was right--do not chase anyone ever who is running away from you. It has the exact opposite effect of what you want.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I would back off completely and the let the therapy / counseling run its course. If neither help, though, you're going to have to make some tough decisions regarding whether or not you're prepared to stay in a marriage like that...

As for giving him more space - 2 - 3 nights a week out with his friends is already more space than most spouses would tolerate. Plus he sleeps in a room of his own?

No matter what his issues are, they are his issues and he needs to focus all his attention on sorting himself out - not running around behaving like a singleton 2 - 3 nights a week.

Frankly, if my SO gave me the ILYBINILWY speech he would be history.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> Frankly, if my SO gave me the ILYBINILWY speech he would be history.


Me, too. I would have a hard time believing they loved me after saying that.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I would back off completely and the let the therapy / counseling run its course. If neither help, though, you're going to have to make some tough decisions regarding whether or not you're prepared to stay in a marriage like that...
> 
> As for giving him more space - 2 - 3 nights a week out with his friends is already more space than most spouses would tolerate. Plus he slips in a room of his own?!
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Doubly so if he weren't spending any time with our 8 month old and I was the only one caring for her.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Deejo – Maybe I’m just extra sensitive. I’m sorry if that’s the case. I’m just trying to be as positive about this situation I can be and try my best to make things work.

Zillard – I am as well. He seemed fine while on the trip. We talked and everything. I’ve asked him so many times and he just says that while on the trip, weight was lifted off of his shoulders and he felt free and alive. Then he came home and that feeling was gone. I think the majority of this is because of his childhood. I don’t know if he can change or willing to do the hard work to deal with his bad childhood. Plus….he was diagnosed as bi-polar years ago. What do I need? I don’t know. I’m so lost right now on what to do, how to act, etc.

Norajane – Not sure what the biggest problem to tackle is. I think maybe that’s was MC is trying to determine. Even though he doesn’t participate in actually raising our daughter, he does love her tremendously and spends time with her. He plays with her all the time, he gives her baths, he takes her swimming and when I have something going on at work, he’ll pick her up from daycare and take care of her at night and put her to bed. I know that’s not ideal. Believe me, I’ve argued with him about this over and over again. He does bond with her and she loves him dearly. She just smiles and laughs and interacts with him so much. I do think that maybe does feel trapped with having an added responsibility of having a kid.

Doubletrouble – His brothers are half brothers. Same mom but different dads. His brothers didn’t suffer the same physical and emotional abuse from the mom as my husband did. In fact, the brothers were raised somewhat normally because of their dad. My husband was the only one that endured everything and was thrown into group homes and foster homes. His relationship with them is normal for brothers I guess. The 2 that live in our same town are both single (or dating). When spend tons of times talking sports and watching sports. When they go out or get together its 99% sports related. Things did change drastically and out of the blue. My husband went to Dallas with one of his brothers to watch the Cowboys game. They also went to a basketball game. They went out and partied one night they were there but my husband called me the next day and sounded perfectly normal on the phone and even told me that he loved me and my daughter and that he missed us.

Phtlump – Thank you for your thoughts. I hope we will both come through this stronger. 

Jellybeans – I’ve been hearing that a lot (about cheating) but also not to chase him because it will have the opposite effect. I’ve been doing that for about 2wks now. It’s hard but worth it if it may help.

Cosmos – I would be out the door too if I didn’t have our daughter. Trust me…I wouldn’t tolerate this (at least that’s what I’m telling myself). I want to make an effort for my daugther’s sake. I guess if therapy doesn’t work, then I need to let go and build a good life for my daughter and I. I have the support of my family and I’m educated and have a good job. I can do this.

Norajane – That has been a big fight in our marriage ever since she’s been born. I do have to say in his defense that he does take care of the entire household so I don’t have to worry. He cooks dinner, does laundry, takes care of dogs, does grocery shopping, etc.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

heartbroken0426 said:


> My husband of little over 5yrs told me a few weeks ago that he loves me but isn't "in love" with me and there is no passion or attraction anymore. He's sleeping in another bedroom and he's progressively becoming more distant from me. We've been to 3 marriage counseling sessions and he's been to another 3 individual sessions. Therapist says *he may have attachment disorder due to his upbringing in foster care and an abusive physically and emotionally mother*. He's been going out with friends about 2-3 times a week which he never ever did before. We have a 7 month old but he doesn't take responsibility of taking care of her. It's assumed that it's my job.
> 
> I've read things that I should give him space to deal with his feelings. I shouldn't pressure him to talk about his feelings or the marriage, don't tell him that I love him, don't try to show him the love we once shared, go out and do things on my own, etc. Is this true? Should I just give him space to figure it out?


If the IC therapist is right, this will take some time for your husband to work through. You should spend a few sessions in IC to get some support in *clearly establishing your boundaries *in the relationship. I would put MC on the back burner for a few months. Abused children learn to disconnect from their emotions to defend themselves the only way they can. There's a fairly good probability that your husband doesn't know why he feels the way he does. Kindest Regards-


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> If the IC therapist is right, this will take some time for your husband to work through. You should spend a few sessions in IC to get some support in *clearly establishing your boundaries *in the relationship. I would put MC on the back burner for a few months. Abused children learn to disconnect from their emotions to defend themselves the only way they can. There's a fairly good probability that your husband doesn't know why he feels the way he does. Kindest Regards-


Hi Jung,

Yes I think that is what is going on. From what I've read, it can be a very long and hard process to overcome these types of issues and oftentimes, people struggle with it for the rest of their lives. I guess I need to determine if I want to stick around with the hopes that he'll get better. We are both doing IC as well as MC. He's been going to IC much more than I have been.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

heartbroken0426 said:


> Hi Jung,
> 
> Yes I think that is what is going on. From what I've read, it can be a very long and hard process to overcome these types of issues and oftentimes, people struggle with it for the rest of their lives. *I guess I need to determine if I want to stick around with the hopes that he'll get better*. We are both doing IC as well as MC. He's been going to IC much more than I have been.


Your DH has two responsibilities in this regard: 
1) To own his own psychology (which he is doing in IC)
2) To commit to His Needs/Her Needs in the relationship (MC works on this point)

When do you give up on someone? When they give up on themselves; which is seen by refusing to work on the points above. You are right in that only you can decide what 'better' looks like and the timeframe you need it to happen. Kindest Regards.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> Your DH has two responsibilities in this regard:
> 1) To own his own psychology (which he is doing in IC)
> 2) To commit to His Needs/Her Needs in the relationship (MC works on this point)
> 
> When do you give up on someone? When they give up on themselves; which is seen by refusing to work on the points above. You are right in that only you can decide what 'better' looks like and the timeframe you need it to happen. Kindest Regards.



I need to figure all of that out!


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Jung_admirer said:


> Your DH has two responsibilities in this regard:
> 1) To own his own psychology (which he is doing in IC)
> 2) To commit to His Needs/Her Needs in the relationship (MC works on this point)
> 
> When do you give up on someone? When they give up on themselves; which is seen by refusing to work on the points above. You are right in that only you can decide what 'better' looks like and the timeframe you need it to happen. Kindest Regards.


This is an excellent. Right on the money.


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