# Ladies, Can you Stomach It?



## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

It'd be interesting to see how many women who peruse the following forum agree with it:

Red Pill Women

And how many women dismissed it as misogynistic without once considering whether their DH would agree or appreciate with what other women are stating has made their relationship better....

P.S. Most of the forum contributors are women if that makes it more safe for some ladies here.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Dreald said:


> It'd be interesting to see how many women who peruse the following forum agree with it:
> 
> Red Pill Women
> 
> ...


Why did you add the bolded? 

So the premise of the RPW is that withholding sex for commitment is the right and therefore only way? Women are the gatekeepers of sex, while men guard commitment? 

Anti-feminist, feminist, traditional, polyamorous rhinos, whatever works for those women, I wholeheartedly encourage. Touting it as the right and only way? Nah. That I can't support.


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

Ideology peddled as science. I've read plenty of it, trying to find a way to see the good in it. Done my research. And it is nothing more than ideology.

If this is the way some would like to live, fine. They have a right to it. But their lifestyle is not superior to my own or anyone else's. I don't live this way.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

AnnieAsh said:


> Why did you add the bolded?
> 
> So the premise of the RPW is that withholding sex for commitment is the right and therefore only way? Women are the gatekeepers of sex, while men guard commitment?
> 
> Anti-feminist, feminist, traditional, polyamorous rhinos, whatever works for those women, I wholeheartedly encourage. Touting it as the right and only way? Nah. That I can't support.


You saved me the trouble of clicking on the link!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

There's a pretty good mix on this forum of traditional, what I would consider RPWs, and new age feminists.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> You saved me the trouble of clicking on the link!


Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? And how the Hamster loves the freedom to run free, clear of the death defying gravity of logic and accountability. :smthumbup:


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Dreald said:


> I added the bolded because it provided a frame of reference that couldn't be dismissed as 'misogynistic' thinking because it was often responded to by other Women.
> 
> No, if that's all that you've gathered from RPW, you've only taken a cursory glance (shocking) and come up with your own gilded perspective. I'd like you to challenge some of those women who changed themselves and consequently were happier in their marriage and themselves.
> 
> Will you do it? I'd like to see that dialogue.


LOL I actually would LOVE to! I bookmarked it for after the twins hit the hay. 

But honestly, no need to be rude.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> You saved me the trouble of clicking on the link!


I enjoy browsing forums and whatnot and I tried to get more in depth except 2 mean old babies needed to eat. 

I just don't get OP's rudeness?


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

COguy said:


> There's a pretty good mix on this forum of traditional, what I would consider RPWs, and new age feminists.


Hmm, my take is that's there's a few RPW in the making, but I think the vast majority of women are still in that Marriage 2.0 mindset. 

Men are waking up -- thanks to the Internet, sites like MGTOWHQ, REDPILL BLOGSPOT, REDDIT/RED PILL, REDDIT/RED PILL WOMEN, AVOICEFORMEN, GIRL WRITES WHAT (YOUTUBE) are showing the issues you face when dealing with entitled/feminist/privileged women nowadays.

Even Bloomberg is acknowledging that being single is the preferable choice:

Is Everybody Single? More Than Half the U.S. Now, Up From 37% in '76 - Bloomberg

Read the comments, it's quite telling about where a lot of men are at with marriage. Not all, but most. Just like AWALT...


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

AnnieAsh said:


> I enjoy browsing forums and whatnot and I tried to get more in depth except 2 mean old babies needed to eat.
> 
> I just don't get OP's rudeness?


The dedication of the Kay apologists borders on the...religious.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> LOL I actually would LOVE to! I bookmarked it for after the twins hit the hay.
> 
> But honestly, no need to be rude.


Wow -- how is that rude? By challenging to something that you dismissed so readily and I simply asked that you engage the forum? Comprised of primarily women?

So will you do it? I'd love to know your username so I can follow the dialogue and see where it leads. I think you'll find that group of women with quite a different perspective...one that is not adopted or challenged by most women...except for a cursory glance...


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> I enjoy browsing forums and whatnot and I tried to get more in depth except 2 mean old babies needed to eat.
> 
> I just don't get OP's rudeness?


I love how you characterize other women who disagree with you....that's quite telling.

How was I rude again? I requested that a person spend more time reading a forum or at least, engage in a dialogue before so easily dismissing other women's opinions... simply because it didn't comport with their own? She replied within minutes of my post -- she had no time to read many responses or posts of the RPW forum I referenced.

I'd love to see how you engage other women who you may not agree with.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

"This is a spot for like-minded Women to objectively and realistically discuss sexual strategy from an anti*-feminist, non-feminist*, traditionalist and/or evolutionary psychology perspective."

So basically it's a forum that promotes ideas such as women should not have equal rights in society and under the law.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Eyeballed it, if it makes others happy that's great but not for me


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

Dreald said:


> Wow -- how is that rude? By challenging to something that you dismissed so readily and I simply asked that you engage the forum? Comprised of primarily women?
> 
> So will you do it? I'd love to know your username so I can follow the dialogue and see where it leads. I think you'll find that group of women with quite a different perspective...one that is not adopted or challenged by most women...except for a cursory glance...


A different perspective on life or _their own relationships_ is fine. However, when there is this belief that all women should fall into these modes within a marriage is a dangerous generalization. Perhaps the Captain/First Mate modality will work for some women. Other women may find it confining, suffocating, and resentments will build up. Some may like these distinct roles, some may prefer a more egalitarian relationship. 

To believe that this "Captain/First Mate" stuff is somehow superior is to adopt an ideology. Do what you will with your life, again, I don't care. But this is not the way I live.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> LOL I actually would LOVE to! I bookmarked it for after the twins hit the hay.
> 
> But honestly, no need to be rude.


I'd love to hear your thoughts and dialogue with other women on that forum.

Some are searching, but many get it. 

I'm simply offering another viewpoint that some men and many women here see the world through....

No need to be dismissive.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

HappyGilmore said:


> A different perspective on life or _their own relationships_ is fine. However, when there is this belief that all women should fall into these modes within a marriage is a dangerous generalization. Perhaps the Captain/First Mate modality will work for some women. Other women may find it confining, suffocating, and resentments will build up. Some may like these distinct roles, some may prefer a more egalitarian relationship.
> 
> To believe that this "Captain/First Mate" stuff is somehow superior is to adopt an ideology. Do what you will with your life, again, I don't care. But this is not the way I live.


Marriage is an ideology -- do you not think? Are you denying basic evolution aspects that frame our reptilian brains and cause hypergamy, Briffault's Law or Solipsism? Do you deny those very basic functions/beliefs or actions?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Dreald said:


> Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? And how the Hamster loves the freedom to run free, clear of the death defying gravity of logic and accountability. :smthumbup:


Alright, I accept you wanted to share something and I perhaps rudely dismissed it. I apologize for commenting when it wasn't needed.

Truth of it is, time spent on one forum (TAM) is enough for me. I also respect the views of Annie and HappyGilmore. It's not about ignorance. I don't think logic and accountability factor into whether or not I wish to view another forum.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

HappyGilmore said:


> The dedication of the Kay apologists borders on the...religious.


You can't blame that on Kay. AFAIK he never asked people to convert others in his name nor be in your face about personal ideologies.

The theory either works or it doesn't, and if legitimate, doesn't require others (men or women) to believe in it for there to be results.

The Male role as leader = oppressed women debate has already been done to death on this forum, and there's really no reason to go into it again. I'm pretty sure at this point you either believe it is positive, or you don't, and very unlikely that someone will change their mind from reading a reddit subforum.

In Before The Mud Slinging...


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

Dreald said:


> Marriage is an ideology -- do you not think? Are you denying basic evolution aspects that frame our reptilian brains and cause hypergamy, Briffault's Law or Solipsism? Do you deny those very basic functions/beliefs or actions?


I believe that we are sentient beings, capable of self-determination. We are not governed completely by our reptilian brains. If we only lived by our "reptilian brains" (which is a misnomer), we would still be living in caves dying of common cold in our early 20s. But we have health care, motorized vehicles, science, and grocery stores. We have evolved past this, as a civilized society. And Briffault's Law does not apply anymore, as now we have grown past this and it is now a more mutual thing--at least in First World Countries.

We also have all come from different backgrounds, with different upbringings, different influences. Our experiences also make us, you cannot deny that. And the meaning of marriage and relationship is different for everyone. What may be relationship to you is not going to look the same, nor be lived out the same for everyone. 

Wouldn't it be more simple if everyone would just walk in lockstep with predetermined roles? Wouldn't it be so much easier if women just did this, and men just did that? Wouldn't it be better if we could just have a relationship with these roles, versus a real person? But, life doesn't always work out that way. People are individuals, who deserve to be treated as such. I'm a woman who does not like this sort of life: it would suffocate me, squash me, make me feel as if I was lower status. Why? Because HappyGilmore is not that kind of woman. My experiences have been different, thus my ways of interacting with my husband are different. And his ways of interacting with me are different. 

My concerns, OP, is not so much that some may find this quasi D/s lifestyle to meet their needs. Again, as we say in the BDSM world: "your kink is not my kink, but your kink is okay with me." It is this ideology, this belief that we should _all_ be inclined this way that concerns me. Your desire for or involvement in this form of relationship does not make you superior to those who do not desire it, nor are involved in any way with it. If it works for you and your wife, fine. But it does not work for everyone. Human beings, and relationships are far too complex to be boiled down to such simple ingredients.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Oh I should point out that I am a SAHM, wife to the meanest federal agent you'd ever meet. I cook, I clean, raise his kids, and I cater to him happily. Why? Because I feel like that's the deal I made when I agreed to stay home. Because he now makes a point to tell me how he appreciates it and is glad it ain't him haha. 

Would I recommend it to everyone? HECK NO! It works for US. We have even dabbled in a D/s dynamic that I enjoy. Again, it works for US. I can't press that on anyone.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I have no problem with it.


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

COguy said:


> You can't blame that on Kay. AFAIK he never asked people to convert others in his name nor be in your face about personal ideologies.
> 
> The theory either works or it doesn't, and if legitimate, doesn't require others (men or women) to believe in it for there to be results.
> 
> ...


It is quite fine with me if people want to live this way. Again, I have no problem with it. But don't expect everyone to be inclined to this. It works for some, but not for others. 

And I don't sling mud.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Happygil,

Because we evolved higher cognitive functions in our brain over bajillions of years, doesn't mean we can so easily depress our lower order functions.

Evolution has a great means of selecting new improved traits, but there's no mechanism in place for removing older systems, particularly if they don't contribute to killing us.

Disregarding deep and buried animal instincts because we are supposedly so much more involved is like neglecting half your persona.

Better to embrace, understand, and work with everything you have.

I would still get a woody seeing a naked lady in a room. But the high function would start processing the risks and benefits.


As per rpw? I'm undecided.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> Oh I should point out that I am a SAHM, wife to the meanest federal agent you'd ever meet. I cook, I clean, raise his kids, and I cater to him happily. Why? Because I feel like that's the deal I made when I agreed to stay home. Because he now makes a point to tell me how he appreciates it and is glad it ain't him haha.
> 
> Would I recommend it to everyone? HECK NO! It works for US. We have even dabbled in a D/s dynamic that I enjoy. Again, it works for US. I can't press that on anyone.


I am glad things are working out.
My sis just had her second c-section at 44.
My daughter helped over the summer now both grandparents will help out 2 days a week to save $500 in daycare.
Of course I told BIL eh you getting snipped?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Happygil,
> 
> Because we evolved higher cognitive functions in our brain over bajillions of years, doesn't mean we can so easily depress our lower order functions.
> 
> ...


I don't think that anyone is denying basic biology. What I find with things like that forum is the use of buzz words that grab people emotionally. Then some wild leaps are made to move the reader to some view point. It's just a way to get people on their site and make money off ad clicks.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Oh...
back on topic
Men not marrying? How deep does "the problem" go? - YouTube


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Let me take this moment to direct everyone's attention to one of the rules on TAM.

"1. Treat others on the forum with dignity and respect.
Personal attacks, hate speech, racist or *sexist* *statements *or attacks, sexual harassment, explicit sexual comments, promoting violence, will not be tolerated."


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

alphaomega said:


> Happygil,
> 
> Because we evolved higher cognitive functions in our brain over bajillions of years, doesn't mean we can so easily depress our lower order functions.
> 
> ...


If you are speaking of the biological imperative to mate, then yes, this is not a function that needs to be suppressed. Tempered, yes, with logical thought, weighing risks and benefits, as you say.

If you are speaking of "personality traits" being some sort of biological imperative, then I say this is some sort of pseudoscience. What do these Roissy-esque ideologies have to do with biologic imperative? As if women are hard wired to be passive aggressive, manipulative, and irrational? As if we are incapable of responding to kindness with kindness? That women are here to be controlled? Are these the biologic imperatives of which you are speaking? 

Being in a quasi Dom/sub relationship sans the BDSM is not a biological imperative. It is a preference. The MMSL apologists need to realize that, is all I'm saying.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Dreald said:


> I love how you characterize other women who disagree with you....that's quite telling.
> 
> How was I rude again? I requested that a person spend more time reading a forum or at least, engage in a dialogue before so easily dismissing other women's opinions... simply because it didn't comport with their own? She replied within minutes of my post -- she had no time to read many responses or posts of the RPW forum I referenced.
> 
> I'd love to see how you engage other women who you may not agree with.


How telling is your overreaction? Brush up on your reading comprehension and attention to detail. Annie Ash isn't slagging a pair of women contributors from RPW, she has twin infants, who were demanding her time and attention just then. Your reaction was mistaken, so it actually is rude, you know not taking time to pay attention to figure out if you got it right, or heaven forbid, asking some question to clarify your understanding. You know, actual communication skills? Call me crazy, but you seem just a tad defensive yourself.

Just to be crystal clear myself, everything you needed to be able to figure out Annie Ashes intent and meaning regarding the babies was there on your computer screen.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

SO, these women are unhappy and only digging themselves deeper into the hole?

Sounds quite opposite of smart to me......

Someone send them a link to "is withholding sex as bad as cheating" thread. They need to read it!!!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

HappyGilmore said:


> It is quite fine with me if people want to live this way. Again, I have no problem with it. But don't expect everyone to be inclined to this. It works for some, but not for others.
> 
> And I don't sling mud.


I am not in disagreement with you. I think the OP is being a tard by trying to proselytize. And the mud slinging comment was general and not directed at you.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Nope, turns out I can't. At first, I was only vaguely nauseated, but after a while, I couldn't help myself, and spewed all over the place.

Will I therefore engage those women to tell them how wrong they are? No way. They are free to do or say whatever they want, and if that's what they want, power to them.

Besides, I prefer to keep my lunch down.


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

COguy said:


> I am not in disagreement with you. I think the OP is being a tard by trying to proselytize. And the mud slinging comment was general and not directed at you.


Thank you for your clarification. Apologies that I misread you. 

I don't want to slap a label on anyone, but this seems to be a rather trollish thread. I'm not saying...just saying...


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Red pill women? Just read the premise and found the generalizations bereft of logic and therefore validity. What a bunch of hooey!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

To each their own. 

If the women enjoy this then good for them. I would not enjoy this, I would not be with a man that insisted on this kind of lifestyle. In fact, I am suspicious of and turned off by men who think and preach about stuff like this. It gives me the squicks. 

Like AA, I am also a stay at home mom and homemaker. I care for my kids, spouse, family 24/7, 365 when I am at home and not working. But I am my spouse's equal, not subordinate. There are some things he is better at than I, some things I am better at than him but we don't use our strengths or weaknesses to assert leadership over the other. 

As for the reptilian brain arguments, well... We also have a limbic brain and neocortex. All three "brains" are important. All of them work together. There is a reason we evolved brains beyond that of birds and reptiles. For instance, my reptilian brain - responsible for most body functions will tell me I need to take a sh!t. My limbic system - responsible for my emotions will make me feel grossed out at the thought of doing it on the floor. My neocortex - responsible much for learning about culture and social norms will tell me that the toilet is the place to do it. Leave it to just my reptilian brain and the streets would be a lot messier lol.


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