# How to decide if I should explore dating or live solo?



## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Hello,

I am a 47 year old man of Indian descent (not native American) living in Mid-West USA for the past 27 years. I was in a "silent divorce" for 3 years and I have been legally divorced for a year, which brought my 19-year marriage (1st-and-only marriage) to end. I have one daughter who is 18 and will be starting college soon. I don't have to pay any child support (but I plan on helping to pay for my daughter's college, so she will be debt free upon graduation). I don't have to pay any alimony (my wife got the $500k aka 1/2 million dollar house) but I have a $1000/- mortgage to pay for my current house that I bought. I make about $150k per year (equiv. to $325k in NYC) and in the somewhat rural town (about 1 hour west of Cincinnati, OH). That is good money to live comfortably in my rural town. I will get about the same in my retirement and my medical will continue to be covered as part of the Ohio STRS program; so I am all set financially (890 out of 900 FICO score) for the long haul.

I am in reasonable shape for a man of my age (5'10", 200 pounds, 22% fat) and I am average looking (brown skin, still have good amount of hair on my head, tho' it is starting to gray). No physical health issues (triglycerides are a bit high despite being life-long vegetarian; so may have to start meds for that soon), no sexual (ed, std/sti, etc.), and no mental health issues.

As the title suggests -- I am on the fence if I should explore dating to find another partner or just live life solo? Here are some of the aspects that I am contending with:

I have lived all my life with someone. I am finding myself missing companionship. My mom and dad died a few months before my wife decided to leave me (so feel a bit orphaned now). I don't have any family nearby and my daughter is busy with her own life. I have a few friends (2 of my best childhood friends died recently due to covid infections) who are very kind and helpful almost everyday; but they have their own families/commitments etc., and I don't want to encroach upon their time too much. I have tons of acquaintances; but I don't want to bug them with my personal issues.
I do regularly go out to walks, I workout, and I do my "finish carpentry" hobby. I do watch some TV. These things keep me somewhat occupied most days and times; but there are other times that I miss companionship.
I am a good cook, particularly with Indian food (vegetarian tho') and I cook every now-and-then and that does take time and keeps me a bit busy. I do all the housework myself; Yes I did all the work for 20-years I was with my ex-wife; yes, I cooked, cleaned my house, did laundry, took out the trash, yard-work etc.; my Ukrainian ex-wife said the vacuum was too heavy for her to push/pull and her mom (i.e. my ex-mother-in-law) -and-I used to help with cooking and childcare (yes, I also look care and paid for my ex-wife's son from her prior marriage); my ex-wife did work full time (yes so did I); but she did deliver our daughter; so I am not complaining, but just saying where my cooking/housework habit comes from. I am set in this aspect of cooking, housework, etc. and I am unwilling to change in this specific aspect (yes, I do take pride in being self-sufficient and being able to take care of others in my family). 
I do have to travel for work (which takes some time), but not much -- 2 trips to Europe each year (about a week each of business + pleasure). 1-or-2 trips within USA. I do one trip to India/Asia (about 14-days) to visit extended family. I find traveling, particularly in Asia to be fun (no so much fun in continental Europe, except for remote places in Scotland, Swiss Alps, Canary Islands, etc.). I typically don't need to work full-time during summer (gives me time flexibility) as I typically focus on academic/national-labs research. 
I was with my ex-wife for 22-years. I have not had any relationships other than the one with my ex-wife. I have not dated much before (in my younger days, I was way too nerdy in Engineering school) and not had any sexual relationships until my wife. So, overall I don't have any experience with dating.
I discussed the topic of dating with 2 different therapists (both therapists were men, 55+ age). They both did not have anything concrete to offer, other than to provide more aspects/questions for me to think about and I can't seem to decide.
I watched tons of videos on YouTube -- but now all the videos I get (at least in the last month) are cautionary tales about how modern women simply cheat men to get money, intentionally get pregnant (i don't want more children), simply want green cards, usurp their property, do illegal drugs, spread diseases, etc. -- Nothing good about women and it has made modern women sound scary to me. Of course, I do know it can't all be true because my several women friends (all married) are so wonderful to me; but the visceral fear about modern women has set in.
My friends encourage me to go at least go out on dates, even if it is just for fun to meet new women (my friends say it is ok to let the woman know up front if I am not eager to rush into sex) and remind me that I am not going to get any younger.
But one of my friends once mentioned that no woman would date a man of my age due to lack of sexual experience (as I have been in sexual relationship with just 1 woman). That has added to my worries.
 My friends also mentioned that I don't bring much to the table -- People think I live a boring life, in a rural, boring college town. But I think I live a healthy life (vegetarian, don't drink much, never done or plan to drugs or pot) hiking & biking in the amazing woods around where I live. I work with 100s of college students each year as part of my job to make their lives a tiny-bit better (yes, I have received several awards). So I don't think of my life as being boring -- but I understand; in this context my opinions don't matter; only other people's opinions matter. However, I am not eager to change my life or passions just to make it "not so boring" to someone else.
I am generally open (no specific preference on race, ethnicity, religion, etc.). Yes, I am willing to date older women (my ex-wife was 5-years older than me).
In summary, any suggestion/advice on *"how could I decide if I should explore dating to find a woman-partner or should I just live life solo?"* Any suggestions, tips, or advice is greatly appreciated. 

Thank you all, in advance, for taking the time to read this rather lengthy post and for your help/suggestions/advice.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

You say you lack companionship, and I notice your hobbies are mostly solo. I was similar in that way and spent some time and effort building a friendship group after divorce. It isn't easy, but would recommend joining some social groups such as in meetup, or local volunteering. It's a good way to meet friends and if you should meet someone you have something in common, great. If not, you have company and aren't so lonely. There is, also, as your friends suggest, a middle ground. Dip your toe into dating, by seeing a few different people. FYI, I don't think that only having had one partner would be a deterrant if you meet someone who appreciates that about you. You seem to be missing a few middle steps in between being alone forever and finding a partner. You've never had a chance to date a lot of different women, see what you like, see what you're actually looking for. You're not really at the point where you know what you want. Don't jump into a relationship because you're lonely. Build your life into one you find fulfilling and if you find a partner, they can only add to that. Expecting a partner to fill all your buckets so to speak, isn't really a recipe for anything healthy.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am a 47 year old man of Indian descent (not native American) living in Mid-West USA for the past 27 years. I was in a "silent divorce" for 3 years and I have been legally divorced for a year, which brought my 19-year marriage (1st-and-only marriage) to end. I have one daughter who is 18 and will be starting college soon. I don't have to pay any child support (but I plan on helping to pay for my daughter's college, so she will be debt free upon graduation). I don't have to pay any alimony (my wife got the $500k aka 1/2 million dollar house) but I have a $1000/- mortgage to pay for my current house that I bought. I make about $150k per year (equiv. to $325k in NYC) and in the somewhat rural town (about 1 hour west of Cincinnati, OH). That is good money to live comfortably in my rural town. I will get about the same in my retirement and my medical will continue to be covered as part of the Ohio STRS program; so I am all set financially (890 out of 900 FICO score) for the long haul.
> 
> ...


Instead of continuing to research dating and trying to get it down to a science, since you are an active person, I just think you should try to meet someone organically by doing your normal interests and hobbies. You may want to give more emphasis to those hobbies that will bring you in more contact with women. You are probably too busy but you might also consider doing some sort of volunteer work just maybe once a week for a couple of hours that would bring you in contact with meeting new people. 

It sounds like you have a lot going for you. And you are missing companionship. Certainly you could try online dating if you need to zero in on for example other Indian single people. But just know that a lot of people get really discouraged doing that because it can be brutal. And of course there are people out there ready to take advantage of you. 

Try not to read all the stuff you can find about it though because there are really a lot of bitter and jaded people out there writing a lot of that. Women can recognize manipulation that might be suggested on some of those sites. It's just more important for you to be genuine and try to meet someone who has something in common with you by simply staying super busy doing your interests and hobbies just in my opinion.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Pro tip: treat women the way you want to be treated. Respect and honesty. Don’t play silly red-pill games, you’ll end up with a woman who just wants money. Smart women can smell a liar and you don’t want a dumb woman.

Live your life and let it happen organically. It’s easier when you share interests.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

As other posters suggested, try to meet women organically. Find areas of common interest (the college as a possibility — maybe you work there) as a way to meet people. I don’t use dating apps so have no experience with them but many do and there are pros and cons. Don’t be in a huge hurry to jump in but rather take things easy and see how it goes. You have a lot to offer. Sadly, there are people who will try to take advantage of that.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

There are a lot of dishonest and unreliable people in the world, so it's important to spend the time necessary to get to know someone before making big commitments. Getting to know someone should be a fun and fulfilling way to spend your time and energy. 
In my experience, fear based decisions usually steer you away from something bad rather than towards something good. It sounds like you want a happy relationship, but you're afraid that you might be taken advantage of, so you're holding back on moving towards that desire. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

I am so sorry for all of your losses -- good friends & parents. With the demise of your marriage, this is indeed a lonely time for you. 

I think you bring a lot to the table. You sound grounded, not boring. Remember you are not seeking a 20 something looking for adventure. A woman your age will probably not ask intrusive questions like the # of your past sexual partners. If somebody asks that it's a black mark on her & she's probably not somebody you need / want in your life. 

Before jumping into dating, I'd try other things to diminish the loneliness like making more friends. Get involved in something you care about to make new friends & a return a sense of purpose to your life: volunteer somewhere or attend industry events for your job to find like minded people. Check out alumni associations from your alma matas or parents' groups for whatever school your daughter will be attending.

From there, once you are more balanced & centered it will be easier to determine the answer to your question. Do ask yourself the probing Qs posed to you by the therapists


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

joannacroc said:


> You're not really at the point where you know what you want. Don't jump into a relationship because you're lonely. Build your life into one you find fulfilling and if you find a partner, they can only add to that.


Thank you. Yes, you are correct in that I am not sure what I want. On the other hand, the point that some of my friends make is that unless I try, I won't know either, which I do agree. Of course, I am getting older. So contemplating on trying out a few dates and even making even one actual baby step about it seems pretty hard.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> I am so sorry for all of your losses -- good friends & parents. With the demise of your marriage, this is indeed a lonely time for you.
> 
> I think you bring a lot to the table. You sound grounded, not boring. Remember you are not seeking a 20 something looking for adventure. A woman your age will probably not ask intrusive questions like the # of your past sexual partners. If somebody asks that it's a black mark on her & she's probably not somebody you need / want in your life.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the suggestions. I found it very helpful.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> There are a lot of dishonest and unreliable people in the world, so it's important to spend the time necessary to get to know someone before making big commitments. Getting to know someone should be a fun and fulfilling way to spend your time and energy.
> In my experience, fear based decisions usually steer you away from something bad rather than towards something good. It sounds like you want a happy relationship, but you're afraid that you might be taken advantage of, so you're holding back on moving towards that desire.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Thank you for sharing your thoughts about my circumstances. Yes, I am apprehensive of the whole process and to be taken advantage of. I have been debating about it for a while but have ben unable to arrive at any conclusion. That is why I decided to get some inputs and thoughts from others.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Openminded said:


> As other posters suggested, try to meet women organically. Find areas of common interest (the college as a possibility — maybe you work there) as a way to meet people. I don’t use dating apps so have no experience with them but many do and there are pros and cons. Don’t be in a huge hurry to jump in but rather take things easy and see how it goes. You have a lot to offer. Sadly, there are people who will try to take advantage of that.


Thank you for your kind words and suggestions. I do work at a University. With Covid (many activities have gone online) and particularly with summer the activities have been very limited in the college town. Most places are closed and even restaurants work only 30% of the time . I live near the University which is very convenient 5-days of week, 9-months of the year. However, the place is in a rather rural area which severely limits options. Here most adult activities are centered around church. I am not religious or christian and feel rather uncomfortable in such religious settings. 

So realistically speaking, the chances that things would happen organically, even a simple first date or just coffee or drinks, is slim to none. If anything is going to happen I would have to risk time, effort, money, and health (worried about std/sti). I can't seem to decide if the effort to just meet other single women is worth it, particularly at my advanced age.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Have to say it — I’m smiling that you referred to your “advanced age”. Dating life definitely doesn’t end in your 40’s.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If you can actually bring yourself to get out of the house and talk to women and make eye contact with them and relate to them on an interpersonal level, you will be swim'n in women. 

Let me address a few of your primary concerns starting with money. It is very simple and easy to keep women from taking your money or exploiting you financially. For starters - don't give them any. It's ok to take people on dates and pay for dinner and movies etc. But when they start telling you that their car is old and not running well, point them to a good mechanic. 

Additional ways of not getting taken advantage of financially is do not open up any kind of joint bank accounts, investments, credit cards etc. Also do not take out any kind of mortgages, lease agreements or jointly own kind of property including rental units, vacation homes, cars, boats etc etc. 

An easy way to avoid those situations even becoming an issue is to date educated, professional women that have their own incomes and their own assets. 

If a chick starts harping on you to get a joint account or property with her or to add her name to any of your accounts, properties or assets - simply say no and do not do it. If she walks, then you know what she was after in the first place. 

Don't fear "Modern Women" because an adult female in the US today should be supporting herself and taking care of her own financial business. If a woman isn't doing that, don't marry her, cohabitate with her and above all else, do not plant any babies in her. 

Which brings to another point, at your age and your station in life, I understand the want of companionship and sexuality as pretty much all of us want those things in our life. But you need to seriously ask yourself if actually remarrying is something you even want to consider at all? Do you even want to have any more kids? If the answer to that is no, which would be very common and very understandable for a 47 year old man, I would suggest getting a vasectomy so you don't have to worry about that. 

If you don't marry a woman, don't cohabitate with a woman, don't open up any kind of joint financial accounts or own joint property and especially don't get her pregnant - then really the only way she is going to use or exploit you for money is if you simply hand it to her. 

So don't do that. Problem solved. 

Cont...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now in the matter of you being concerned about your sexual abilities - you say you have a daughter and that you were married for 19 years so I assume you are not a virgin. 

Your concerns about sexual process are your own insecurities talking. 

For starters, it's not like any of us have our number of past sex partners stamped on our heads. And if we did have numbers stamped on our heads, most women do not give one iota of concern over how many women a man has been with. Men care about numbers of past partners, women generally do not. They care about your chemisty and how you relate to them and don't really care about your sexual past. 

And, whether you have been with one person or one thousand, your prior notch count really has nothing to do with how well you relate to or how well you can please your next partner. It really doesn't matter no matter how much we try to tell ourselves it does. 

We may have learned how to please our prior partner(s) but that doesn't mean that any of that will please our next. You really are hitting the "reset" button with each new person and 99% of the experience will depend on your interpersonal chemistry and connection and attraction and maybe 1% will depend on technical skills. You learn the technical skills with your new partner over time. 

Cont...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

So my advice is spend more time and energy getting out and doing what you want to do and less time and energy worrying about what you "should" be doing. 

As long as it is safe, legal and consensual with a sane, sober, consenting adult, it is ok. 

It's ok to just meet some one for a coffee after work. It's OK to date casually. It's ok to have safe, mutually consensual sex without intent of marrying. It's ok to want to be financially independent and not support anyone. It's ok to seek a serious relationship and potential marriage if that is what you really want but just be aware of the risks and take the necessary steps to mitigate those risks. 

You may seem like the rug has been pulled out from under you with the deaths of your parents and your divorce, but the reality is you are actually in a very sweet spot and very enviable place in your life. You have gotten through school, you have raised your family, you are gainfully employed in a good career and have good financial resources, you are still in good health.... And you are now a free man with minimal obligations and your child is no longer a minor.... 

So you can basically do anything in the whole world that you want and no one can tell you that you can't as long as it is legal and nonfattening. 

To a lot of people, you have a gift here. While you may see it as a dark chapter at the moment, but it can actually be a wonderfully freeing and opportunistic time in your life. You can do anything you see fit. 

Our lives have a few sweet spots and some periods of drudgery as we go through the course of our lives. This can be a real sweet spot for you if you make it such.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> I watched tons of videos on YouTube -- but now all the videos I get (at least in the last month) are cautionary tales about how modern women simply cheat men to get money, intentionally get pregnant (i don't want more children), simply want green cards, usurp their property, do illegal drugs, spread diseases, etc. -- Nothing good about women and it has made modern women sound scary to me. Of course, I do know it can't all be true because my several women friends (all married) are so wonderful to me; but the visceral fear about modern women has set in.


I do want to address this a little more specifically. 

I don't know who's videos you watch specifically but I can make a good guess. 

SOME of the stuff they spout is pretty accurate such as being the best person you can be and staying in fit and healthy and working hard to maintain your financial and professional status and to develop your social and interpersonal skills. I would agree with that as we all should be doing those things to be a good, functional and productive human being. 

HOWEVER, much of the crap they spew, is to get people riled up and keep them viewing their content so they get supporters and money. 

A lot of these guys were self-admitted losers that got kicked around and finally grew some balls and decided they weren't going to take it any more and they looked around and saw what the actual successful people were doing. 

....But they still hold on to some of the old resentments from their prior, pathetic lives and they btch about how things aren't like how they were presented in the movies and on TV from the 1950s. 

The world view that they THINK was ideal back in the 1950s, never existed in the real world in the first place. 

There is not a separate species or breed of "Modern Women" that are somehow a different breed or classification of females that now walk the earth. It's simply 2022 now and this is how the world is today for better or for worse than what it supposedly was 70 years ago. 

Are there drug addicts and gold diggers and illegal aliens wanting to get into the country and con artists and diseases and such??? Yeah, there are. Always has been, always will be. 

How do you protect yourself from them? - Don't marry them. Don't add them on to your bank accounts. Don't give them money and above all else, don't plant babies in them. 

But Oldshirt, how do I know if they are secretly a gold digger or a drug addict or have STIs??? Answer = you don't initially. 

That's why you don't marry them, give them money, pay for their stuff, add them to your bank accounts, put their name on your property or lease and you don't plant babies in them. ( and there are tests for STIs) 

At least not until you have dated them consistently for a couple years, have met their friends and family, been through at 4 different seasons with them and see how they act and react to a variety of life challenges and circumstances. 

And if at any time they show red flags of being an alcoholic/druggie, gold digger, cheater, or fiscally incompetent, you wish them well and throw them back, or just simply continue to date them casually for fun to get out of the house.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> But one of my friends once mentioned that no woman would date a man of my age due to lack of sexual experience (as I have been in sexual relationship with just 1 woman). That has added to my worries.
> My friends also mentioned that I don't bring much to the table -- People think I live a boring life, in a rural, boring college town. But I think I live a healthy life (vegetarian, don't drink much, never done or plan to drugs or pot) hiking & biking in the amazing woods around where I live. I work with 100s of college students each year as part of my job to make their lives a tiny-bit better (yes, I have received several awards). So I don't think of my life as being boring -- but I understand; in this context my opinions don't matter; only other people's opinions matter. However, I am not eager to change my life or passions just to make it "not so boring" to someone else.


Excuse my bluntness but your "friend" (and I use the term lightly) is a dumbass and is simply wrong. He's full of sht. 

If a man keeps himself in good shape, is gainfully employed, has working social and interpersonal skills and isn't a drunk or an asshole and doesn't have some rip-roaring case of Asperger's Syndrome or something, he will be able to attract and interact with women until he's lowered into the grave. 

Now at a certain point, he is not going to be able to pick up hot 21 year hard bodies in a dance club without offering to make car payments or tuition payments, but i would worry about an adult man that would even want to. 

But for an adult, age appropriate, educated, self supporting woman, a fit, health conscious, STEM educated, professional man is man is going to have mature women lined up down the street. 

I have a news flash for you - most mature, adult, educated women that have their lives together are NOT going to want some guy that spends his time jumping out of airplanes and drinking the night away at college dance clubs and racing motorcycles and picking up floozies. 

19 year old chicks may dig 22 year old dudes that do those things. But most intelligent, adult women are going to run fast and far from 47 year old men that are still doing those things. 

Your friend is simply a dumbass that hasn't grown up. the things he is saying that will hurt your chances of being with women are actually things that will attract many to you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

When I met my now husband of 17 years after we both had long first marriages ending in divorce, I was very happy that he had only had sex with his first wife and no one else. Many women would respect you for that.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Live free. MGTOW


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Stop reading that nonsense on line.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Stop reading that nonsense on line.


Yeah. Read OUR nonsense instead LOL


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> When I met my now husband of 17 years after we both had long first marriages ending in divorce, I was very happy that he had only had sex with his first wife and no one else. Many women would respect you for that.


I think a way to frame this is some gal who shares his same values on things like sex before marriage and marital fidelity and monogamy etc etc, won't think twice about a man who has only been with one long term partner because they share the same values. 

Generally women don't care that much about a guy's prior partner count to begin with, but the only ones that might think about it at all would be the ones that are screwing half the town in which case he probably wouldn't be interested in them in the first place. 

And like you said, someone that really values monogamy and sex within the confines of an LTR/marriage, may even see it as a plus.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> No physical health issues (triglycerides are a bit high despite being life-long vegetarian; so may have to start meds for that soon),


Find out your TG to HDL-C ratio. If 2 or lower, you're good. Don't start taking meds for stuff you don't need to.

There's another nerd, Dave Feldman (on youtube and other places) who is an engineer also and nerded out on the whole cholesterol issue. Very informative.





Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> But one of my friends once mentioned that no woman would date a man of my age due to lack of sexual experience (as I have been in sexual relationship with just 1 woman). That has added to my worries.


Not true. Maybe your friend is ignorant or maybe they're trying to sabotage you, irregardless, remove it from your list of worries.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What da F?

If you want women go get 'em. What's the problem?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> [*]But one of my friends once mentioned that no woman would date a man of my age due to lack of sexual experience (as I have been in sexual relationship with just 1 woman). That has added to my worries.


😂

Those who think adding numbers to your body count makes you a better lover is dumb sh-t as F sorry lol


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If you don't marry a woman, don't cohabitate with a woman, don't open up any kind of joint financial accounts or own joint property and especially don't get her pregnant - then really the only way she is going to use or exploit you for money is if you simply hand it to her.
> 
> So don't do that. Problem solved.
> 
> Cont...


Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions, they were very helpful to me. 

I don't plan on marrying (at least I don't have any plans right now) or having any more babies. Maybe vasectomy is a good idea, just been worried if it will cause sexual side effects, maybe I should talk to my doctor about it.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> So you can basically do anything in the whole world that you want and no one can tell you that you can't as long as it is legal and nonfattening.
> 
> To a lot of people, you have a gift here. While you may see it as a dark chapter at the moment, but it can actually be a wonderfully freeing and opportunistic time in your life. You can do anything you see fit.
> 
> Our lives have a few sweet spots and some periods of drudgery as we go through the course of our lives. This can be a real sweet spot for you if you make it such.


Wow, this response is illuminating. I do agree with you that I am in what seems to be a "sweet spot" but to me it feels like I am in the "doughnut hole" -- yes every thing seems sweet around me but inside it feels a bit empty. Maybe that will pass with time as I grow older and mellow down.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> What da F?
> 
> If you want women go get 'em. What's the problem?


Game. He didn't have a chance to learn it growing up. so, it's kind of difficult for a dude like him to relate to the whole enchilada for dating. You and I can just go out on the prowl anytime looking for women. As a matter of fact my game was to go alone on my own. I didn't want another dude (bringing me down) by my side. His best bet would be to built a network of friends from where he can pull resources for dating. Goin it alone, I don't think he's prepared for that. The problem is that right now he doesn't have that network.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I have a news flash for you - most mature, adult, educated women that have their lives together are NOT going to want some guy that spends his time jumping out of airplanes and drinking the night away at college dance clubs and racing motorcycles and picking up floozies.
> 
> 19 year old chicks may dig 22 year old dudes that do those things. But most intelligent, adult women are going to run fast and far from 47 year old men that are still doing those things.


I am looking for a "normal" mature adult woman. I work at a University and I am surrounded by young women (including international ones) most of the time and have variety of conversations with them; hence, I do have a reasonably good understanding of women (and men) that age -- this is not to downplay the young women's capabilities; just that they are very different in their thought process these days.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> When I met my now husband of 17 years after we both had long first marriages ending in divorce, I was very happy that he had only had sex with his first wife and no one else. Many women would respect you for that.


Thank you for sharing something so personal. I appreciate it, as it is very helpful to me.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Live free. MGTOW


I am a big fan of the die hard movies -- i like the quote "live free or die hard". Is there a difference between MGTOW versus being solo?


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah. Read OUR nonsense instead LOL


Believe it or not, I am learning a lot from all of your suggestions and enjoying the process. I am finding this more helpful that therapy in some sense.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> Game. He didn't have a chance to learn it growing up. so, it's kind of difficult for a dude like him to relate to the whole enchilada for dating. You and I can just go out on the prowl anytime looking for women. As a matter of fact my game was to go alone on my own. I didn't want another dude (bringing me down) by my side. His best bet would be to built a network of friends from where he can pull resources for dating. Goin it alone, I don't think he's prepared for that. The problem is that right now he doesn't have that network.


Yes, you are on the money. I don't have any dating experience. I met my ex-wife at uc.edu in a class and she asked me out. The problem is that the circle of people I have moved into are all married and their networks are very different (focused on child care or parent care etc.). The college town I live in does not help my circumstances either (because it is heavily slanted to young people).

In addition, even going out to a meal is hard for me as I am the only vegetarian in my whole circle. I get teased about being vegetarian in every single meal. It doesn't bother me anymore because it is my friends and I know they mean well. 

But, that life choice of being a vegetarian is another thing I worry about a lot -- I know being vegetarian in the Mid-West USA is seen as a sign of weakness, character flaw, and other negative stereotypes. I need to find some woman who is willing to look past my dietary choices, which is rather hard these days in this tiny nook of the world where I live.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Thank you. Yes, you are correct in that I am not sure what I want. On the other hand, the point that some of my friends make is that unless I try, I won't know either, which I do agree. Of course, I am getting older. So contemplating on trying out a few dates and even making even one actual baby step about it seems pretty hard.


It is hard the older you get. But again, that's why you should concentrate on staying busy with hobbies and active interests that bring you in contact with people. Join a bowling league, neighborhood jogging group, or if you're around water, a kayak group. 

Use neighborhood apps like Nextdoor, which are not at all dating apps, but are just apps about the news and events in your immediate neighborhood. They announce any holiday events or community meetings. Go to community meetings at the parks. Attend police community meetings they usually hold at churches nearby. Go around shaking hands and making friends. Friends lead to meeting other people, and that can lead to dating once you get people to like you enough they want to introduce you. 

I'm sure there are Indian community events in your area as well, so maybe search the Meetups app to see about that or attend church of your choice. 

Volunteer to do something you'd enjoy anyway or become a scout leader or volunteer coach at an elementary school, or volunteer for an animal rescue organization. If you foster pets they like you to come on some weekends and bring your foster to a pet store or some place they set up trying to adopt. You'll meet nice volunteers. Or get set up for a dog for yourself because they are great for loneliness, but you need to be home enough and they need exercise. A nice backyard with a dog door open to the home is ideal. Go to the dog park and meet people. 

Become a regular at a couple of restaurants so you get to know the regulars and staff there. That's what I do a lot to have people to visit with. (Not looking to date). 

Be active and that way you just meet people in general instead of sticking your neck out asking strange women out cold turkey.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah. Read OUR nonsense instead LOL


This is true.....


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> But, that life choice of being a vegetarian is another thing I worry about a lot


I think that you're putting too much emphasis on the possible negativity of things. It seems that you are approaching life in front of you as if you have displayed a blue print in front of you and trying to analyzed if there's any mistake, any deviation, any cause and effect. if I'm correct, you need to get out of the analytical mainframe in your thought process, and approach what's in front of you with a more nonchalant attitude.. 

The vegetarian "thing" as you say, if you would look at it from another angle; for a segment of the female population it might not be a "thing" at all. So, if you meet a woman and she's looking you funny because you're a vegetarian, you should nonchalantly said to her "it's been nice meeting you", NEXT, and so on, eventually, you'll meet someone that doesn't care.

Also, just because I have "game" for dating doesn't mean that I am going to meet all these gorgeous women and they immediately would fall on their knees for me (don't we all wish)  It actually, not so, but I would agreed that I would have better chances than you. Regardless, the think for you to understand is that staying put, doing nothing will not get you anything. Ask, ask, and ask women out, be yourself, go with a cavalier, nonchalant attitude expect nothing and everything. Things should fall organically. Anything that feels forced is out synch, and don't work.

All of those married friends, I'm sure, must know someone "single" and looking, so pass the word that you also are single and looking. talk to your female married friends, women in "general" are more apt and willing to play "matchmaker" then dudes. So, you can start there. One friend at the time, and before you know it you'll have plenty of friends to draw from.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> Game. He didn't have a chance to learn it growing up. so, it's kind of difficult for a dude like him to relate to the whole enchilada for dating. You and I can just go out on the prowl anytime looking for women. As a matter of fact my game was to go alone on my own. I didn't want another dude (bringing me down) by my side. His best bet would be to built a network of friends from where he can pull resources for dating. Goin it alone, I don't think he's prepared for that. The problem is that right now he doesn't have that network.


Maybe he just wants a serious relationship and not casual dating/sex.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Maybe he just wants a serious relationship and not casual dating/sex.


Yes, I am interested in a serious relationship, but I know I have to start with casual dating first before it can lead to something more serious.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> Regardless, the think for you to understand is that staying put, doing nothing will not get you anything. Ask, ask, and ask women out, be yourself, go with a cavalier, nonchalant attitude expect nothing and everything. Things should fall organically. Anything that feels forced is out synch, and don't work.


I agree and realize this -- I have to be proactive in my circumstances -- which of course, takes times, effort, and mental fortitude (deal with rejection, emotional toying, etc.) -- that is where I am spinning my wheels, I guess.

I have debated on reaching out via my friends -- if some of these don't go well, then it will make it awkward with the friends and I am apprehensive about that.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Maybe he just wants a serious relationship and not casual dating/sex.


Diana, please, read well before you made comments. I never implied for him to be into "casual dating/sex" as you said. Nonetheless, on your point, it is ridiculous to think that he would just go to a date to start a serious relationship. He needs to casually date before he can even start considering a serious relationship. It would be like one in a million to go on his first date and immediately found himself in a serious relationship. Let's be real here.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Are you going to meet Ms Right the moment you step out of the house and ride off into the sunset together that night? Probably not. 

But I think you are being way too restrictive and narrow-angled in your thought process.

There is no singular, rigid pathway to love and that any deviation from that will result in utter failure.

It just simply doesn’t work like that. 

People are drawn to what they are drawn to and there is no one singular set of absolute traits and characteristics that one must absolutely have or they’re doomed to fail. 

There are chicks out there that have the hots for middle aged brown skinned vegetarian engineers that have only been with one person.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> I have debated on reaching out via my friends -- if some of these don't go well, then it will make it awkward with the friends and I am apprehensive about that.



Just mention it casually. Don't make it sound like you're on the campaigning trail. No need to be afraid. Let your friends act on their own accord. 

Rejection is the two headed beast we all must go through when dating. Embrace it and accept it. The better you prepare yourself for rejection the better it will be for you. Just remember even, the coolest Don Juans out there get rejected, the thing is to be able to take it philosophically, and being able to graciously move on to the next date. It's all part of the "game". It comes with the territory.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rob_1 said:


> Diana, please, read well before you made comments. I never implied for him to be into "casual dating/sex" as you said. Nonetheless, on your point, it is ridiculous to think that he would just go to a date to start a serious relationship. He needs to casually date before he can even start considering a serious relationship. It would be like one in a million to go on his first date and immediately found himself in a serious relationship. Let's be real here.



Not all cultures or people that come from traditional cultures operate like that.

Some people do screen vital statistics and determine if someone is serious mate material for them or not and determine that someone is legitimate match for them before even meeting.

If someone doesn’t check off the right boxes from the git-go - no coffee date. 

If both do check off the boxes for each other, they do go into the first meeting with intentions of it leading to a serious relationship.

They then “court” as opposed to date. 

They court as a means to confirm that their initial assessment was correct and to develop the relationship. 

Courting with intent has largely fallen from favor in the US in leu of dating, but is still practiced by some more traditional groups and individuals.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Greetings Indian_Nerd. You may be surprised but what you describe is what many men go through. Our stories are not too dissimilar except the ethnic background. For me I choose to be alone. Its lonely of course but thats how I feel currently. I clung to my marriage too long and when the end finally occurred after nearly 20 years it was difficult and I don't think I could be a particularly good partner to someone right now. Reading between the lines it looks like you are ready to move on and seek companionship and if thats where you are I suggest go for it. You are making too many excuses not to go forward. I think that is really what you want to do so go for it. Good luck


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> Diana, please, read well before you made comments. I never implied for him to be into "casual dating/sex" as you said. Nonetheless, on your point, it is ridiculous to think that he would just go to a date to start a serious relationship. He needs to casually date before he can even start considering a serious relationship. It would be like one in a million to go on his first date and immediately found himself in a serious relationship. Let's be real here.


I have known it happen. I knew within a few days that I wanted to marry Mr D.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Op if you aren't sure then maybe leave it a while. In another year or so you may have more idea what you want to do.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Op if you aren't sure then maybe leave it a while. In another year or so you may have more idea what you want to do.


I totally agree. The OP seems nice and a normal, sane, adult man. He has nothing but time. 😎 No rush.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Not all cultures or people that come from traditional cultures operate like that.
> 
> Some people do screen vital statistics and determine if someone is serious mate material for them or not and determine that someone is legitimate match for them before even meeting.
> 
> ...


As true as that might be. I'm following OP lead based on his posts.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Yes, you are on the money. I don't have any dating experience. I met my ex-wife at uc.edu in a class and she asked me out. The problem is that the circle of people I have moved into are all married and their networks are very different (focused on child care or parent care etc.). The college town I live in does not help my circumstances either (because it is heavily slanted to young people).


Well, never too late to start learning - you can learn on the go. I think right now you can focus on just getting out of your comfort zone.



> In addition, even going out to a meal is hard for me as I am the only vegetarian in my whole circle. I get teased about being vegetarian in every single meal. It doesn't bother me anymore because it is my friends and I know they mean well.
> 
> But, that life choice of being a vegetarian is another thing I worry about a lot -- I know being vegetarian in the Mid-West USA is seen as a sign of weakness, character flaw, and other negative stereotypes. I need to find some woman who is willing to look past my dietary choices, which is rather hard these days in this tiny nook of the world where I live.


Your surroundings would make it difficult though I'd imagine. Have you considered travelling and meeting women elsewhere? If a woman falls in love with you, she will follow you anywhere.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Rob_1 said:


> Game. He didn't have a chance to learn it growing up. so, it's kind of difficult for a dude like him to relate to the whole enchilada for dating. You and I can just go out on the prowl anytime looking for women. As a matter of fact my game was to go alone on my own. I didn't want another dude (bringing me down) by my side. His best bet would be to built a network of friends from where he can pull resources for dating. Goin it alone, I don't think he's prepared for that. The problem is that right now he doesn't have that network.


We can be his network! 😇


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> But one of my friends once mentioned that no woman would date a man of my age due to lack of sexual experience (as I have been in sexual relationship with just 1 woman). That has added to my worries.
> My friends also mentioned that I don't bring much to the table --


Some friends you have there - I think I'd start giving them the side-eye.

Why did your wife pull the plug on the marriage? Any validity to her complaints?

You're in a college town so the single women are going to find the pickings as slim as you. Start with your closest resource - your university. If the school offers free lectures to the public, pop in and scope out the audience. Check with colleagues on if there are any subjects that women are currently finding fascinating.

Also, community colleges generally have some avenue for adult education and interesting classes. See if any of them offer cooking classes. A lot of women would love to learn how to cook Asian Indian food and vegetarian. The chance to see a man in an apron is a sure draw. 

Have fun finding a woman with whom to enjoy life.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> In addition, even going out to a meal is hard for me as I am the only vegetarian in my whole circle. I get teased about being vegetarian in every single meal. It doesn't bother me anymore because it is my friends and I know they mean well.
> 
> But, that life choice of being a vegetarian is another thing I worry about a lot -- I know being vegetarian in the Mid-West USA is seen as a sign of weakness, character flaw, and other negative stereotypes. I need to find some woman who is willing to look past my dietary choices, which is rather hard these days in this tiny nook of the world where I live.


You seem to be worrying a lot about things that haven't even happened. There are lots of vegetarians in the world, maybe there is a woman looking for someone just like you, but has given up because there aren't a lot of vegetarians.

Do you only want to meet women who are vegetarians? I have a good friend who loves meat. He enjoys cooking it in various ways and has no intention of quitting meat. He recently married a vegetarian. They get along great. Neither has a problem with the other's way of eating.

If the only people you know are married, that makes it impossible to choose someone from your friend group. However, letting them know that you're interested in dating would be a good start.

Don't give up before you've even started. Try to have a more positive outlook on meeting new women and getting to know them. You could have a lot of fun in the process. Don't try to go outside of who you are as a person. Many women would consider you a rare gem in that you are a faithful, responsible man who doesn't sleep around.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> There are chicks out there that have the hots for middle aged brown skinned vegetarian engineers that have only been with one person.


Lol. This one made my day.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I totally agree. The OP seems nice and a normal, sane, adult man. He has nothing but time. 😎 No rush.


Thank you. Yes, everyone around me tells me I am a sane, normal, a bit boring (I just don't do stupid ****), man. The thing is I feel I am running out time/runway to explore the possibility of an LTR. For instance, I know that I don't stand much of a chance in the the Indian-people market, I am more-or-less an untouchable fossil.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> We can be his network! 😇


That is very kind of you.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Your surroundings would make it difficult though I'd imagine. Have you considered travelling and meeting women elsewhere? If a woman falls in love with you, she will follow you anywhere.


My close cousins live in Melbourne (AU) and Hamilton (NZ) and they have asked me to move there for a year. But I am not at a point to leave my daughter yet, not until she is settled at college at RIT.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Thank you. Yes, everyone around me tells me I am a sane, normal, a bit boring (I just don't do stupid ****), man. The thing is I feel I am running out time/runway to explore the possibility of an LTR. For instance, I know that I don't stand much of a chance in the the Indian-people market, I am more-or-less an untouchable fossil.


Why???? That makes no sense.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Why did your wife pull the plug on the marriage? Any validity to her complaints?


We did not talk much about it, so I can't say for sure what the issues were from her perspective. She refused marriage counseling and I did not take her push to seek counseling earlier. I experienced several key issues with the relationship which basically made me shutdown; essentially death by a 1000 cuts over 20-years --

My ex was generally rather deprecating -- I could never do anything right. For example, I could deep-clean the whole 4500-sq.ft. house (my friends would comment how beautiful the hardwood floors and the house looked after I cleaned) and my wife would point out that I did not put spoons in the right place in cabinets, etc. But she would also turn around and not allow maid service to clean the house, complaining they don't do a good job. So basically I ended up being the maid. The more I tried, the more things I tried to do, the more I seemed to fail. Soon the children also started treating me that way and I simply ended up avoiding all them. Reflecting back -- could have been an ego issue at my end or that I did not want to appear needy to plead for some respect from the people closest to me. I would just laugh, try to make jokes, give excuses for myself like "can't teach old dog new tricks" etc. to my family and away to lick my wounds in private.
My ex was a bit controlling: For example, until the divorce I never got access to our bank accounts -- my salary went into the account and that was it. I tried to get access every now-and-then but kinda gave up. However, she would periodically complain that I know nothing about our finances. Same with shopping -- even simple things, like a "Costco" membership -- they give 2 cards and she gave the second one to her son and even when I asked she would just say "you don't need one as you don't buy anything." and then she would complain that "she had to go to costco shopping every time; of course I went along to help with labor". She would exclude me from any family decisions or decisions for kids and just "inform me after". In retrospect, basically I let her run the show (because she was doing that with her son) and I never got my franchise in my own family -- now I see it -- issues of marrying a single-mom. My cultured, disciplined Indian upbringing did not prepare me for dealing with contentious woman from Ukraine. I married her because she was good looking and mental strength; yes, the same strength that ended up breaking everything around her.
My ex never ever prioritized me: I fully understand that kids come first. I live that mindset as well. However, there are times when husband-and-wife have to take care of each other. I did do that several times. For example, for a year after our daughter was born and my wife had cysts in her ovary and had to have a partial hysterectomy. She was recovering from surgery for a while, which I fully understand and was doing my level best to help. One time (literally one time) when she was sick, I was waking up at 4:30 am, cooking for her son, going to work early so I can come back sooner, taking care of our 6-month daughter at night, I fell asleep and I didn't hear her call me. I have never heard the end of that one time I passed out of exhaustion. No, she won't let her mom help because she doesn't get along well with her mom; so I was doing it. However, when I was sick, needed help to drive to dental procedures, when my dad died, when my mom died, there was never a supportive effort. So I ended up not taking care of myself because I was worried how I would manage doctor's visits/procedures, handle finances, etc.. Yes, my ex took good care of herself. 
My ex was not nurturing -- she made a clique with the 2 children and cut everyone out. Even her own parents are disconnected from her and their grandchildren. My parents got to spend a total of 5-hours with my daughter in 18-years. So I always felt isolated and cut out out the family. My in-laws used to complain to me that my wife was not being a good mother. But I did not fully understand what they were saying nor knew what to do. Neither did they (btw, my ex-MIL is still nice to me and frequently sends over food/dishes that she knows I like). My daughter ended up that way too -- completely disregarding and disrespecting me; won't even respond to "good mornings" or "good nights" (and if I asked for a response, my daughter would just snap at me saying -- she just woke up, she is busy, etc.) I know this is what happens when a mom is not nurturing and trying to build a cohesive family unit. My daughter's therapist bluntly told me -- "I can't wait for your daughter to move away to college so I can finally have her away from my ex-wife"
Lack of support/trust: From my end I still have a deep-seated, unresolved conflict arising from 1 disciplining talk I had with her 17-year old son (he is now 30-years old). Apparently, my 10-second conversation asking him not to be rude was too harsh. She wanted to separate then; but she did not. Now, reflecting back, I think that she did not do it then because her son was ready to go to college and we shared the $150k college tuition costs and helped him get an apartment and helped him settle etc.
So overall, reflecting back on it, it was a very one-sided, unrewarding, emaciating partnership; to the point that I could not even force myself to have sex with her; my body would physically repulse and there were times where I literally be thinking "I fell like I am being raped" in the middle of sex; and she would complain I am distant, neither of us ever orgasm, etc. 

I fully agree, I should have been man enough to pull the plug on this marriage way sooner. I am just thankful my ex finally did and we did an amicable dissolution (lawyer fees were still about $5k). Yes, I lost my $600k house, most of my property (left with 1 desk, 1 couch, and 1 twin bed, and our old accord; my ex ket the other 2 new cars). She gave me some money from our bank account (remember, I don't even know how much money was there).

Of course, she has my kids thinking I am the bad guy. 

I luckily left with my retirement because it is a pension system through the state of Ohio and there is no way to get money out. Yes, my ex kept her full 401k (which is fair because she worked for it) 

Sorry for the long message. I guess I had to get it out of me. Yes, I feel better now. Sorry if it read like a rant (from an old man).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds like the age-old trade: beauty for security. You both got what you wanted — for awhile. Fortunately for you, she finally ended it so now you have another chance at happiness. This time go beyond looks. And take your time, lots and lots of time, so you don’t make a similar mistake


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cynthia said:


> You seem to be worrying a lot about things that haven't even happened. There are lots of vegetarians in the world, maybe there is a woman looking for someone just like you, but has given up because there aren't a lot of vegetarians.


That's right! I also swipe left so these vegeheads can match with other vegeheads 😇


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> We did not talk much about it, so I can't say for sure what the issues were from her perspective. She refused marriage counseling and I did not take her push to seek counseling earlier. I experienced several key issues with the relationship which basically made me shutdown; essentially death by a 1000 cuts over 20-years --
> 
> My ex was generally rather deprecating -- I could never do anything right. For example, I could deep-clean the whole 4500-sq.ft. house (my friends would comment how beautiful the hardwood floors and the house looked after I cleaned) and my wife would point out that I did not put spoons in the right place in cabinets, etc. But she would also turn around and not allow maid service to clean the house, complaining they don't do a good job. So basically I ended up being the maid. The more I tried, the more things I tried to do, the more I seemed to fail. Soon the children also started treating me that way and I simply ended up avoiding all them. Reflecting back -- could have been an ego issue at my end or that I did not want to appear needy to plead for some respect from the people closest to me. I would just laugh, try to make jokes, give excuses for myself like "can't teach old dog new tricks" etc. to my family and away to lick my wounds in private.
> My ex was a bit controlling: For example, until the divorce I never got access to our bank accounts -- my salary went into the account and that was it. I tried to get access every now-and-then but kinda gave up. However, she would periodically complain that I know nothing about our finances. Same with shopping -- even simple things, like a "Costco" membership -- they give 2 cards and she gave the second one to her son and even when I asked she would just say "you don't need one as you don't buy anything." and then she would complain that "she had to go to costco shopping every time; of course I went along to help with labor". She would exclude me from any family decisions or decisions for kids and just "inform me after". In retrospect, basically I let her run the show (because she was doing that with her son) and I never got my franchise in my own family -- now I see it -- issues of marrying a single-mom. My cultured, disciplined Indian upbringing did not prepare me for dealing with contentious woman from Ukraine. I married her because she was good looking and mental strength; yes, the same strength that ended up breaking everything around her.
> ...


😮

Damn man, you seem like a nice guy. Maybe too nice though. In your situation I would really reflect on how I would do things differently, but I'm guessing you have already?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OP, I think you need to show a bit more backbone when dating new people. Being nice and accommodating is a good quality, but not if you are a total pushover. To be honest, I can't quite believe what I'm reading... it's just so bad...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And you married a Ukrainian even. I think by now the world knows they aren't pushovers 😅


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

Solo is easier. Less problems to deal with.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> And you married a Ukrainian even. I think by now the world knows they aren't pushovers 😅


Not to generalise - lol - but Eastern European girls (can we call Ukraine Eastern Europe? ) can be quite harsh and direct. Sometimes, this is mistaken for rudeness. In the OP's case, I think the woman just married an ATM...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Not to generalise - lol - but Eastern European girls (can we call Ukraine Eastern Europe? ) can be quite harsh and direct. Sometimes, this is mistaken for rudeness. In the OP's case*, I think the woman just married an ATM... *


And a maid. Sheesh. Boy, is his daughter going to be in for a rude awakening. Can you imagine the fireworks when she expects her hubbie to work like her daddy did?


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Sounds like the age-old trade: beauty for security. You both got what you wanted — for awhile. Fortunately for you, she finally ended it so now you have another chance at happiness. This time go beyond looks. And take your time, lots and lots of time, so you don’t make a similar mistake


We were together for almost 5 years before we got married. Out of the 5-years, we lived together for about 2-years. Yes, there were some occasional red flags; like zero women friends (she just said it was easier for her to deal with men; because most men are going to be nice to a good looking woman). But at that time they appeared as small, red flags which just unfurled with time into a giant one -- as people joke -- "more red than in a communist parade"


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Not to generalise - lol - but Eastern European girls (can we call Ukraine Eastern Europe? ) can be quite harsh and direct. Sometimes, this is mistaken for rudeness. In the OP's case, I think the woman just married an ATM...


My ex-wife also worked full time in IT and made 75% of what I did. Otherwise we couldn't have afforded our life style. But yes, I was basically a credit card.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> And a maid. Sheesh. Boy, is his daughter going to be in for a rude awakening. Can you imagine the fireworks when she expects her hubbie to work like her daddy did?


The reason I am very supportive of my daughter is due to her health issues. Neither side of the family has any of these issues. Don't know if it is a combination of Indian + Ukrainian genes or because we were older when she was conceived (I was 28 and my ex was 33). Sadly, my daughter has the following incurable issues:

polycystic ovary syndrome which has caused her to gain a lot of weight (very tough on the esteem of a teen girl), early diabetes, and other hormonal imbalances. Most likely cannot bear babies. She has to be on birth control type pills and with the way USA's women's reproductive rights are being demolished; I don't know if these pills will continue (worst case we will have to move to another country to get pills needed for her to stay alive).
von willebrand syndrome: Her blood does not clot easily and her periods would last 2-weeks causing sever blood loss and anemia. Yes 2-weeks. So she is on medication for that and can have periods only 4-to-5 times a year.
She struggles with side effects of these everyday and mental issues. She was hospitalized a couple of years ago for suicidal tendencies (that was the time I really felt cut out of the family, when my ex and her son just admitted my daughter in a facility and my daughter called me in the middle of a key meeting crying on the phone to say -- "she did not know if I will ever see her again" that call still reverberates in my thick skull). 

So I know my daughter's life it is hard (maybe, that is also the reason I am laboring on the thought to date because I don't want to burden other women). So I let things go so as not to bother her; Yet, on the inside, all I want is to talk and support her. Instead, my daughter is just like me -- rather than sharing and talking about things (apparently that is called being "vulnerable"), she shuts down and sulks away -- that is how I know she is my daughter


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> 😮
> 
> Damn man, you seem like a nice guy. Maybe too nice though. In your situation I would really reflect on how I would do things differently, but I'm guessing you have already?


Yes I have reflected a lot on it. Been through 3 therapist. I am doing fine. At the end of the day I know I have done my very best for my family. So I am in peace.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Yes I have reflected a lot on it. Been through 3 therapist. I am doing fine. At the end of the day I know I have done my very best for my family. So I am in peace.


All the therapy and reflections are the reasons for so much apprehensions about dating. That is why I am also seeking advice from the global oracle -- that is you folks.

I have not a nurturing relationship since I was 10 years old -- My mom was a doctor and my dad was manager at a paint factory in India. We were lower middle class (so constant money stress). So they worked long hours I mostly grew up with my spinster aunt. They did one thing right for me -- helped me get a PC through a 5-year bank loan that I paid for (yes, we could not afford an $150 PC in 1990 without a 5-year bank loan and everyone around us told my parents they just wasted money). But that one investment was the golden ticket for me. I had to move to a different city for high school and college (my aunt moved with me) and I was at UC all by myself when I was 19 to wrap up my undergraduate degree and do MS (I loved what I did; did not enjoy corporate life that much; so decided to do a PhD). I was getting a small student stipend and did not have the means to date in college; so I just did not date (many regrets here) and spent the time in the gym playing with the boys (absolutely worth it and I still love it). Right after that was my ex. 

So all I've even know are three women -- my mom (from childhood), my simple, spinster, virgin aunt (from 13-18) and my overpowering ex (from 23 to 45). Sometimes, I think I am just curious about women (however silly may that sound coming from an old man).

But everyone warns me that people of my age all have much baggage and putting our baggages together is a recipe for a perfect disaster.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Yes I have reflected a lot on it. Been through 3 therapist. I am doing fine. At the end of the day I know I have done my very best for my family. So I am in peace.


How are you going to navigate this with a future relationship?

If a future partner knows you CHOSE to stay _so long_ with this woman who hugely mistreated you, and you basically functioned as a housekeeper for her, because she was attractive and you loved her so much (so much that staying in the face of such awful mistreatment was what you wanted), how does a new partner fit into that, emotionally?

Will you be different with a new partner? If you become very different and take issue with small flaws of a new partner, the vast difference in how your reacted to your ex (taking whatever she dished out) and how you react to a new partner could be a potential problem area.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> But everyone warns me that people of my age all have much baggage and putting our baggages together is a recipe for a perfect disaster.


Yes, it can be true, but the problem here is not that. It's that you're projecting way too much into the future. Anytime you would meet a new woman, clear your mind and take it organically, let things flow by themselves, do not project or try to force it. That doesn't means that you have to be passive about it. One of a man's best attributes to a woman is for a woman to observe and realize that the man has confidence (do not confuse with arrogance/cockiness), fake it until it becomes your nature. You need to give chance a chance, otherwise you will have trouble in the dating world.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Yes I have reflected a lot on it. Been through 3 therapist. I am doing fine. At the end of the day I know I have done my very best for my family. So I am in peace.





Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> All the therapy and reflections are the reasons for so much apprehensions about dating. That is why I am also seeking advice from the global oracle -- that is you folks.
> 
> I have not a nurturing relationship since I was 10 years old -- My mom was a doctor and my dad was manager at a paint factory in India. We were lower middle class (so constant money stress). So they worked long hours I mostly grew up with my spinster aunt. They did one thing right for me -- helped me get a PC through a 5-year bank loan that I paid for (yes, we could not afford an $150 PC in 1990 without a 5-year bank loan and everyone around us told my parents they just wasted money). But that one investment was the golden ticket for me. I had to move to a different city for high school and college (my aunt moved with me) and I was at UC all by myself when I was 19 to wrap up my undergraduate degree and do MS (I loved what I did; did not enjoy corporate life that much; so decided to do a PhD). I was getting a small student stipend and did not have the means to date in college; so I just did not date (many regrets here) and spent the time in the gym playing with the boys (absolutely worth it and I still love it). Right after that was my ex.
> 
> ...


One step at a time, you are overthinking like me. Right now you need to push past your comfort zone.

Maybe try some apps and see how you go for now.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> How are you going to navigate this with a future relationship?
> 
> If a future partner knows you CHOSE to stay _so long_ with this woman who hugely mistreated you, and you basically functioned as a housekeeper for her, because she was attractive and you loved her so much (so much that staying in the face of such awful mistreatment was what you wanted), how does a new partner fit into that, emotionally?
> 
> Will you be different with a new partner? If you become very different and take issue with small flaws of a new partner, the vast difference in how your reacted to your ex (taking whatever she dished out) and how you react to a new partner could be a potential problem area.


Good observations and question. My understanding of a marriage is that we have to be 100% dedicated and committed to it through good, bad, and the ugly. I was brought up with the mindset that a man has to be strong all the time for his family. Appearing needy or complaining about this was considered un-manly and I had to internalize my issues. Particularly, the people closest to me seem to be inflicting the most damage which I kept internalizing. I kept thinking things would get better with time, my family will eventually learn to respect and love me, and I had to learn to accept things the way they are and let things go for now. Obviously, my approach was totally wrong. The more I internalized, the more distant I became. My family just thought I did not care anymore (which was partly true) and was self-centered.

Why my ex was unhappy (best guess because we never spoke about our marriage falling apart): Clearly my ex was also very unhappy. I am sure she had a tough time living with a distant, disconnected person. I saw her struggles as she was going to through menopause (she is 5-years older than me) and misinterpreted that her emotional issues were due to her menopause. She was trying HRT, etc. to help. She had no friends. She would not communicate with family. She was co-dependent on the children. I didn't know what I could do. So I thought I was giving her more space/room would help with this phase of her life. However, the space was misinterpreted as being distant and unavailable, I guess. My ex did put in effort to loose weight and tried to rekindle our sex life by putting us on a fixed schedule (2-days a week). But sex was the last thing I wanted from her. The schedule made it even more unbearable for me. No, I did not communicate that to her; again thinking that it would be unmanly to refuse sex -- because that is all that the society seems to market in the USA. My ex had no way to figure out what I wanted -- that is what my therapist helped me realize. So in the last 4-years we did not have any sex at all.

During this time my daughter had mental and physical health issues and was hospitalized for suicidal tendencies. My father died of covid. My mother was suffering from dementia and I was running to-and-from India during the pandemic. My parents paid for those trips so I did not have to ask my ex if I could spend my own money to visit and care for my ailing mother. So I spent 9-months away caring for my ailing mother because it was impossible to get good help during the pandemic. Meanwhile my ex was here in USA, apparently working on a business with her ex in Ukraine. So when I got back after my mom passed in my arms, she left almost right away to Ukraine to visit her ex and that was I guess the last straw. She ultimately was the stronger of us two and pulled the plug on the marriage. 

What have I learned: Now, I've learned (the big ticket items from my perspective):

I should voice my opinion and communicate the issues clearly and constructively (I did not earlier; instead I would sulk away trying to hide feeling hurt so as not to appear unmanly). I have learned that communication and trust is the key in any relationship -- anytime these two go away, the relationship is doomed. 
I have learned that there are times where I have to draw a line and stand my ground (cannot be a patsy), for the few things that I really care about from my partner (such as: fidelity, truthfulness, trustworthiness). Standing my ground has to be done consistently -- the first time I let go, it becomes a slippery slope and I cannot claw my way back (e.g., if my partner cheats on me, I will not let it slide). 
I have learned that I expect and need some level of balance in my partnerships -- i.e., if I do all the chores, housework, etc I simply end up feeling I am just "servicing" my partner by cooking, cleaning, complimenting her, giving her sex (even sex used to feel like a chore for me), taking her out on trips. I don't want to feel that way and the only way for that to happen is to have some balance in partnership -- that is, the other person cannot be the centerpiece on a pedestal all the time (but sometimes they have to be and so should I). It is all about balance. For example, when I received awards from the governor, my ex and kids would not come for the ceremony saying they were not comfortable in big crowds or didn't agree with his political ideologies; that is, even on important days for me, I was alone. On the other hand, I was always there for their big days (of course I enjoy it; who does not want to show off their family's achievements and feel proud, albeit vicarious pride). That imbalance affects me deeply and those deep resentments manifest in weird ways in multiple facets of my relationships.
I am extroverted. So I need a partner who can interact with other people and is comfortable around people. My ex had zero friends and she really constricted my social circle. My future partners should have friends -- 2-or-3 is sufficient, but deep/meaningful friendships.
Of course, a partnership is a two way street. I need to find someone who is open to this kind of a symbiotic relationship.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> We were together for almost 5 years before we got married. Out of the 5-years, we lived together for about 2-years. Yes, there were some occasional red flags; like zero women friends (she just said it was easier for her to deal with men; because most men are going to be nice to a good looking woman). But at that time they appeared as small, red flags which just unfurled with time into a giant one -- as people joke -- "more red than in a communist parade"


My guess is she has spent many years trading on her looks. She isn’t wrong about the treatment good-looking women receive. Not all women take advantage of that but many do. She may find life a little more difficult at this point.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Or maybe not so difficult, for awhile, if her ex was waiting in the wings.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, she's gone now, you gonna get on the apps or what? Have some practice. Maybe swipe right on all the women you don't find attractive so it doesn't matter if you burn bridges with them.

Then reset your account and swipe right on the women you actually want lol


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> OP, I think you need to show a bit more backbone when dating new people. Being nice and accommodating is a good quality, but not if you are a total pushover. To be honest, I can't quite believe what I'm reading... it's just so bad...


Yes, you are correct -- I am a pushover -- this is what happens when you are alone (no parents, no relatives, very few close friends) and you don't want to loose whatever semblance of a family you have left.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Well, she's gone now, you gonna get on the apps or what? Have some practice. Maybe swipe right on all the women you don't find attractive so it doesn't matter if you burn bridges with them.
> 
> Then reset your account and swipe right on the women you actually want lol


Wait a minute, you can actually do that?


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Then reset your account and swipe right on the women you actually want lol


Maybe what I need is a coach and not a therapist or a psychologist.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Wait a minute, you can actually do that?


Yes you can delete your account and start again.



Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Maybe what I need is a coach and not a therapist or a psychologist.


What you need is Google Play store, download a few apps and start chatting to new women. There's a few warnings we should mention, but first, you must get out of your comfort zone!


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> What you need is Google Play store, download a few apps and start chatting to new women. There's a few warnings we should mention, but first, you must get out of your comfort zone!


What are the "few warnings" that I should be aware of?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> What are the "few warnings" that I should be aware of?


Scams, generally don't give your number or personal information out until you meet in person or you are convinced the other person is genuine (call or video sharing for instance)

Also if you want to make a dummy account first for practice, use photos that don't identify you, but are still you, you'll get less matches but it's practice. I'm not so sure their policies regarding this, I just know you can delete your account and start again, as long as you don't get yourself banned 😅


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Maybe what I need is a coach and not a therapist or a psychologist.


Yes! I'm a therapist, and what I would offer you is probably not what you are asking for.



Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Thank you. Yes, you are correct in that I am not sure what I want.





Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> to me it feels like I am in the "doughnut hole" -- yes every thing seems sweet around me but inside it feels a bit empty.


So as a therapist, that problem would be the #1 thing to work on, having an internal sense of direction, knowing what you want. Not feeling empty inside. 



oldshirt said:


> If a man keeps himself in good shape, is gainfully employed, has working social and interpersonal skills and isn't a drunk or an asshole and doesn't have some rip-roaring case of Asperger's Syndrome or something, he will be able to attract and interact with women until he's lowered into the grave.


True, and I'd want to look at whether there is some Aspergers-ish stuff going on here. 



Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> I should have been man enough to pull the plug on this marriage way sooner.


Again, so in therapy, I'd want to understand, _why didn't you? _(I'm not asking you to answer these things here. Just telling you what a therapist would think.)

A dating coach has a completely different agenda, let's get you out there, and some success will give you confidence.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

Given your geographic (and related cultural) situation, an online dating app might be a good way to expand your horizons and meet women who are ostensibly interested in meeting someone like you, too (I mean, they put themselves out there on the dating app, right?!). Put some reasonable geographic radius limit on your search criteria, so that actually getting to physically meet the woman in real life is logistically easier, and then don't continue to engage in endless online communication beyond some preliminary introductions and scheduling a time to meet (of course, allowing for whatever additional communication might help put the woman at ease prior to meeting in person).

On any actual date, the goal is _not_ to decide whether or not this person is partner-for-life material, all you have to decide is whether you want to have another date with the person. And on the next date, same thing - just, do you want to have another date with them? (Of course, they have to want another with you, too.) So you can lighten up, and just take one step at a time! And authentically just be the best version of your self that you can be, and let the chips fall where they may.

My third point would be to clarify for yourself what you are really looking for -- just for example, in my case I'm looking for someone _to love and be loved by_, that's it! Marriage, co-habitation, whatever, are not requisites for _that!_ I'm not ruling it out, but I'm not explicitly looking for a new wife or a co-habitation partner or whatever, either.

Like you, I too am starting over, and having to _learn how to date_ (after having been with my ex for over 32 years, and not having had much experience with dating prior to her). I am finding the process very introspective (e.g., having to set up a profile on a dating platform*) and throughout the process, learning as much if not more about myself as about the women I'm dating!

* I scrapped my original profile, which described "what" I am, after reading some interesting quirky profiles from interesting quirky women, and focused much more on "who" I am (and "who" I was looking for). For example, one could say "I am an engineer" (what they are) or one could say something like "I enjoy using quantitative data and mathematical models to solve real world problems and enhance society" or "I like working with my hands, figuring out how things work, and how to make them work better" (i.e., who they are).

Good luck! (Nerd power, activate!)


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

TurnedTurtle said:


> * I scrapped my original profile, which described "what" I am, after reading some interesting quirky profiles from interesting quirky women, and focused much more on "who" I am (and "who" I was looking for). For example, one could say "I am an engineer" (what they are) or one could say something like "I enjoy using quantitative data and mathematical models to solve real world problems and enhance society" or "I like working with my hands, figuring out how things work, and how to make them work better" (i.e., who they are).
> 
> Good luck! (Nerd power, activate!)


This post was very very helpful and educational for me. The key is the examples. I really learn well from examples.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

Hi Again, @Indian_Nerd_Dad, I've just been thinking about the question in your post title, how to decide, dating or single? It sounds like in your current single status, you have the skills and resources needed and are well able to take care of yourself, and thus are reasonably happy, at least not wanting. Except for this one little thing -- you are missing companionship, someone with whom to share the joys and sorrows of your life. Could you live a happy life without that? Perhaps, at least reasonably so. But could you be even happier if you were to be successful in finding that someone? Most Definitely! That one little thing is not really so little! But of course, to get any significant reward involves taking some risk -- you have to put yourself out there, become vulnerable, risk rejection along the way. But in the end, what's the worst that could happen? As long as your are prudent about not letting yourself get scammed by a gold-digger, you'ld just be where you are now - a single man, living on his own, not wanting (well, except for this one little thing...). But what is the best that could happen? You find a great, secure, woman who enhances your life to no end and brings you great joy, as you do for her. To me, there is no question. Go for it, man!


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

TurnedTurtle said:


> Hi Again, @Indian_Nerd_Dad, I've just been thinking about the question in your post title, how to decide, dating or single? It sounds like in your current single status, you have the skills and resources needed and are well able to take care of yourself, and thus are reasonably happy, at least not wanting. Except for this one little thing -- you are missing companionship, someone with whom to share the joys and sorrows of your life. Could you live a happy life without that? Perhaps, at least reasonably so. But could you be even happier if you were to be successful in finding that someone? Most Definitely! That one little thing is not really so little! But of course, to get any significant reward involves taking some risk -- you have to put yourself out there, become vulnerable, risk rejection along the way. But in the end, what's the worst that could happen? As long as your are prudent about not letting yourself get scammed by a gold-digger, you'ld just be where you are now - a single man, living on his own, not wanting (well, except for this one little thing...). But what is the best that could happen? You find a great, secure, woman who enhances your life to no end and brings you great joy, as you do for her. To me, there is no question. Go for it, man!


Thank you for the taking the time to respond. Your thoughts were helpful for me.

The thing about being solo -- "I like to be alone (honestly I do) but I just don't want to be all myself" -- I am sure it makes no sense to the ladies, but hopefully it makes sense to men.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> The thing about being solo -- "I like to be alone (honestly I do) but I just don't want to be all myself" -- I am sure it makes no sense to the ladies, but hopefully it makes sense to men.


Just makes you an introvert 

I'm one too! Check this out!


https://www.talkaboutmarriage.com/threads/memes-for-introverts.445023/


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> This post was very very helpful and educational for me. The key is the examples. I really learn well from examples.


Well, if you are using a swipe app like Tinder/Bumble/Hinge/CoffeeMeetsBagel, focus on your photos.
Get your best ones or if you need new ones get them professionally done, wearing different clothes, doing different things, etc.

I have a very minimalistic profile either than photos. It's mostly funny stuff, I can share what I write for my profile in private message if you like. You might laugh, I do, but it pulls so 🤷‍♂️

I don't think you should put too much on your profile, just enough to entice them and make them curious enough to swipe right.



Laurentium said:


> A dating coach has a completely different agenda, let's get you out there, and some success will give you confidence.


I wonder with all my issues if I can qualify as a dating coach 🤗


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> I wonder with all my issues if I can qualify as a dating coach 🤗


Most of the coaches (self-proclaimed coaches, of course) on YouTube all have had experience with "life's lessons". So I would say you the pre-requisites to become a coach.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Indian_Nerd_Dad said:


> Most of the coaches (self-proclaimed coaches, of course) on YouTube all have had experience with "life's lessons". So I would say you the pre-requisites to become a coach.


All coaches and counsellors can do is try to lead you to water. You gotta take the plunge. Have you tried your hand yet?


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