# Separated and Mind Games



## zengirl (Jun 22, 2010)

Hello All,

I am new to this sight and hoping to get some constructive advice. I left my husband three weeks ago. We are pretty much newly weds. Got married last summer. Having not lived together, it seemed the adjustment of living together was alot for the both of us. We are both young professional, well-educated. Three weeks into the marriage he started gambaling, would stay at his fathers place stating he needs to pick up his stuff and organize, wouldn't do anything around the house etc. The lack of organization is something I could live with but he started to be very verbally, mentally, emotionally abusive throughout our marriage - critizing me at any point - not smart enough, don't dress well, not informed of current events, don't pay attention to him or his needs. My friends and family started to notice how he puts me down. I felt i was always on the defensive, walking on egg shells. I am usually a laid back person but started to lash out and couldn't control my anger at times. The reseintment started to build. I left him the first time early this year. We went to councelling and even our marriage counsellor noticed he was controlling and very disruptive. I went back to him after a two month seperation thinking things will be better but the verbal, emotional and mental abuse didnt' stop. He even spat in my face and poured beer over my head. He kept blaming me for everything that was going wrong, how i wasn't loving, paying attention to his needs etc. The last straw was he punched me in the face after a heated argument. I called the cops. We have been seperated since then (three weeks). 

I know I did the right thing of calling the cops. He was becoming more abusive and he started to get worse. However, he is making me feel guilty for calling the police and claims that I put his safety and future at stake. I am not sure if we will get back together. My heart says yes and mind says no. I feel that he is trying to play the victim role and is making me feel guilty. He has said that he can never get over me calling the police and the fact I don't have any guilt of calling the cops. He does recongize that he is more to blame and shouldn't of critized me, been a better husband etc. He doesn't really want to talk about that but is turning the table on me, if i love him i will do this and that - admit that i am wrong. He also acknowleges that he might have some behavioural issues and needs to talk and get accessed by a phycologist or therapitst. Is this manipulation / guilt trip normal during a seperation? Should we be talking? Do things get better from hear or worse? He tells he loves me and I am his dream women but hasn't done anything to show me ... but he also tells me i have shown him anything either. I am tired of this tit for tat games! 

I am going through a lot of ups and downs. All though I ended up with a black eye - I am trying to see the good side of him. Trying to tell myself he comes from a disfunction home and no solid foundation.(His father beat his mother for 30 years before she left him and mother doesn't know how to deal with conflict). Might have a mental condition. Should I just stay seperated or give him another chance?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

He experienced his mother being beaten for 30 years, that’s his level of expectation about marriages. He’ll expect to be able to beat you for the next 30 years before you leave him. I bet his father also criticised his mother and behaved in exactly the same way as your husband is towards you. Why his mother may also have got the police involved one time and then, like you, she felt guilty about it and took him back.

Your husband is way beyond the point of return. Don’t just stay separated start divorce procedures now. There are many good men out there, your husband isn’t one of them.

Hope this helps

Bob

PS: Do not try and see the good side of him. What he's already done to you far out weighs any good he may have.


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## CodeNameBob (Jun 3, 2010)

I agree with Bob, when I first started reading this I came at it from the my point of view, my wife leaving me, which is a little more negative. The differnce between your husband and me, I am a good man.

Any man that puts his hands on his wife and tries to break you down mentally, emotionally, or physically is not a man, he is a monster.

His father was a monster and he will become one too.


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## zengirl (Jun 22, 2010)

Thank you for your responses. It's nice to have a differant/ outsider perspective on this. My family and friends are saying the same thing but sometimes you feel that are to close to the situation the judge and give objective advice. 

I think I am holding onto the hopes and dreams we had/ could of had. He also uses this, "i was going to do this for you, take you here, planning this trip" and is making me feel guilty that all of this will not happen. 

As for his family and his upbringing, he is aware that he is like his father and he resents it when I say it. His mother has also told him that he has many negative traits of his father. I think I hold on hope that he will realize that he is headed for a future like his father - one that has no family or friends in sight. I hope he will realize this and will CHANGE. I think I am waiting for the Ah-ha moment - like that in movies. However, in the last three weeks with the I love yous , he has tried to blame me and turn the tables. When you are so deep in the situation you don't realize the mental mind games that are being played - what strings are being pulled. 

My mind and heart are not stearing into the same direction. I am trying to be practical but my heart goes out to him. He is in the process of seeing a phycologist/ therapist and there is a huge possibility he has adult attention defecit disorder. Part of me thinks he can deal with it and part of me thinks that I should help him. If this is the case, do I stay or run away? This is another point he has been using, "through sickness and health..."


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Through sickness and health sure, but I don't think they included getting punched in that or in the better or worse part of the vows. 
There is no 'better times ahead' for you in this. This is something he will struggle with for the rest of his life, even if he gets past it now his brain is still wired to react certain ways in situations. If he's hitting you already, manipulating you constantly, and putting you down always then it's not going to get better. Even if it does you will be walking on eggshells to avoid it re-occuring, and what kind of life is that for you to look forward too? I say be glad this surfaced before you lost too much of your life to this situation and go out and find real happiness. Trust us when we say it's out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CodeNameBob (Jun 3, 2010)

You can't get sucked into his mind games, I know what you are feeling, you don't want to give up on him or on your vows, but part of your vows may not have been verbalized, but you are to protect one another. He is supposed to be protecting you from outside forces, as well as himself. We all have demons, say things we may regret, but we are to learn from that one mistake. He should not be repeating the pattern over and over again.

I have learned that my wife, who left me, and cheating is always the victim, she told me I am trying to hurt her. I am mean becuase I won't let her come in our home anymore, the home she brought another in, while I was away.

It hurts, but you are blessed in the sense you are learning who he is ealier than later, no kids, not a million memories to forget.

Talk it out in you head, what advice would you give a friend, sister, brother, or stranger when they tell you their spouse hit them and is emotionally abusive.


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## zengirl (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks for the responses. I just wish things could end on a positive note instead of all these mind games. But I am still struggling if my relationship is over or not. I think accepting reality will be the hardest thing! 

One thing I am trying to do is stay positive regardless if my husband is being negative, lashing out. The way I look at it, how long can he keep lashing out if I don't give him anything - no fuel to add to the fire. But I have to admit this is the hardest thing to keep do. 

I seem to be doing a lot of self therapy and joining this group has also given me a positive lift. I know I am blessed to have great friends and family that have been here for me every minute. I also don't have any kids or financial ties to my husband (no mortgage). One of my biggest fears is - the unknown - a life without him, not knowing if/ will I do better then him. I am sure I will find someone that doesn't abuse me (i pray) - but he also has good qualities. Give and take? 

I just don't understand why people can't be forthcoming with their feelings instead of playing mind games. This world would be such a simple place. 

From your experience, is there a chance for individuals like my husband to change. He is in his early 30's???:scratchhead:


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## whynotme (May 18, 2010)

Hi Zengirl,

Can I just throw in my 2 cents... I was exactly where you are back in 2005. I had just married my boyfriend of 1 year. After the first 6months of marriage I was ready to quit. He completely changed from a loving, attentive boyfriend (if a little possessive) to one of the biggest jerks I had ever encountered. He wouldn't help around the house, but I didn't cook well enough or clean enough. He became critical of me and controlling. I set up a dinner party with HIS work friends, then at the last minute he decided not to attend and left me to entertain his guests alone with no explanation. He was supposed to be a Christian but after we were married refused to attend church and left me to explain to his family why he wasn't there...and that was just the tip of the iceberg...I walked out after 6 months and my new mother-in-law blessed me out for it pretty good. I walked out again two years later after he threatened to punch me in my face during a fight...I ended up staying for two more years, but left for good last year and now we are divorced. I lived in fear of becoming pregnant by this man and getting stuck with him while I was working up the courage to leave.

I share this story with you hopefully to give you some strength, solidarity, and a warning. Stay away from this man. Marriage is sacred so it's hard to just break it off. Don't do what I did and think you need to stay to make your marriage work. It can be embarrassing to admit that the man you just married is an abusive jerk. It doesn't matter that you are newlyweds. The fact that he punched you and poured beer over your head shows his disrespect. He doesn't see you as a person. If you go back to him, he'll do worse to you. Please, stay away. Everyone makes mistakes, chalk marrying this guy up to a mistake and move on with your life while you can. Don't be like me and waste four years on a lost cause. He will treat every woman he marries like this. And it's not likely he will change. Please take care, and God bless you.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Zengirl,
If you take him back that will be the biggest indicator to him he could possibly get that his abusive behaviour is ok and that you have accepted it. “Ah she’s a really good wife, I can emotional and physically abuse her and still she takes me back”. He will never change if you take him back. Never.

You’ve some grieving to go through although I think your grieving will be more about your dreams of a marriage rather than the reality of it. You don’t have a lot of investment in your marriage, in a years time you will have more, in five even more etc. and it will get harder and harder for you to leave. Why you may even pick up the mantle and get on a mission to change your husband. If you did that you’d be trying to change a person who is abusing you, that’s a nightmare situation to be in. And believe you me he will use that against you.

You sound a bright intelligent woman, you did the right thing by you to call the police. Do the right thing by you, divorce him and find yourself a new life.

I was with the love of my life for 41 years. In that time there were a couple of occasions when I was really pushed to my limits with things that went on. Not once did I ever raise a hand to my wife let alone punch her in the face and give her a black eye. Your husbands done that to you in the first 6 months of your marriage.

Bob


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## zengirl (Jun 22, 2010)

Thank you all for your stories. I am realizing that I am in a cycle that doesn't end; it doesn't matter if I try or not. I also realize in order to end the cycle, I have to remove myself from the situation- my emotions are getting the best of me. Even though we are seperated, I feel he has an emotional hold over me. I am not one that puts myself first and usually when I do, I feel guilty. 


Ending my marriage only after 10 months of marriage seems like I havent' given it a shot but I know I can keep trying for the rest of my life with no results. 

Whynotme: did you an your ex try everything before deciding to end the marriage. has anyone walked away feeling guilty and thinking they could of done more?


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## CodeNameBob (Jun 3, 2010)

You should not feel guilty for putting yourself first in this situation, we are talking about your health and your life. You can try all you want, hard as you can, and he is not going to change.

I realized I have tried to be the best man possible for my wife before the seperation, into the sepreration, after finding out about the affair, I still go to our marriage councelor to look for answers. What could I have done better, could have I listened more, been more caring, anything to have prevented it. What I learned was that her cheating, shutting off emotionally, are her issues not mine. She even stopped going to the individual counceling I was paying for, she has no intention of changing and there is nothing that I can do to change that fact. 

You need to understand you can't carry all his baggage, he needs to shed it himself. 

You are lucky, you found out early that he was a bad investment, save you love, heart, and soul for a man that will truly love you, respect you, and protect you.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Zengirl,

Has anyone walked away feeling they could have done more?

In many ways my wife was a beautiful person and she brought me more than my fair share of joy and happiness. I felt truly blessed that she was with me. However there were things about my wife I found hard to tolerate. The biggest thing was her resentment, which went back decades. It went back so far that the event which she was resenting me for changed in her head over the years to something unrecognisable. Plus she actually resented me for things which I simply didn’t do. That hurt me big time. So I tried to teach her the value of forgiveness. It didn’t matter how hard I tried or what I tried she remained forever unforgiving.

My wife was persecuting me and I was responding by playing the role of a rescuer, I was trying to rescue her from what she was persecuting me for. In effect I became a co-dependent. Co-dependency is a term developed for the person married to an alcoholic.

The overall effect of me trying very hard with my wife for 20 years or so was zero. I got absolutely nowhere. Lately I’ve come to understand why. If my wife forgave me for whatever I did or didn’t do that would mean she would no longer resent me. That would me she would no longer harbour inside of her strong anger and dislike for me. That would mean a dramatic change in her own self image and the image of herself that she’d projected onto my younger son over perhaps 20 years.

Who would she be if she no longer resented me and no longer harboured anger and dislike for me? How could she hurt me if she no longer resented me? I think that was a far too scary “change” for my wife. People with these deeply embedded traits are very much like an alcoholic or drug addict, they can’t wait for the next fix. It’s a well known fact that alcoholics and drug addicts cannot in any way be forced or persuaded to come off of their addiction. It’s the same with smokers and nicotine addiction.

The only person who can get them off of their drug is the person taking the drug. I’ve a good mate who was an alcoholic. He was once told he had six months to live, that didn’t stop him. What stopped him was the fact that one day he couldn’t control his motions, he’s got quite a graphic description bless him. That stopped him. From that day not another drop has passed his lips and he knows for how long for to the year, the day and the hour. He’ll say something like “22 years, 274 days. 6 hours”.

I don’t think it’s possible to change another person. I for one thought that my wife learning about forgiveness and actually forgiving was not a “change” it was just the adoption of a new life skill. I just couldn’t have been any more wrong. I was just so wrong with my belief. It took me years to find that one out.

People don’t change unless they want to change. And for an alcoholic, heroine addict etc. that that change has to come about from something deeply inside of them. I was a co-dependent and because of that I was actually enabling my wife’s addiction to resentment. I haven’t a clue what my wife would have done if I’d walked out on her, if she’d learnt about forgiveness for example as a way to overcome her resentment.

From what I know now though after we’ve been separated for six months is that she still has massive resentment against me. I also know that I actually resent my wife’s resentment, I too have become a resentful person. Now I’ve just got to get myself off of that “drug”.

That’s why I say to you give up now. Find somebody who is not an abusive person. They never change unless something really bad happens to them. Your leaving your husband may well force that change in him or that in a combination with something else that comes along in his life as a result of his abusive ways may get him to change himself. No one else can do it for him. I think if you stay with him, like me with my wife you will become an enabler of his abusive ways and yes he will blame you for it.

My wife thinks she's resentful because of me. She isn’t. She’s resentful because she’s a resentful person. It is “just” abusive behaviour she learnt from her mother and I accept absolutely no responsibility for her resentment. It is a part of her core values and beliefs, behaviour and self image. I am a smoker, I am a drinker, I am a heroine addict, I am a resentful person, I am a wife beater etc. etc.

It took me years and a lot of pain and heartache to get to that point, to that understanding and to stop being a rescuer, a co-dependent. I guess I was addicted to being a rescuer, the knight in shining armour. It took a lot of abuse and a second nervous breakdown for me to stop.

Bob

PS: Hope you can make some sort of sense of all that!


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

You have already done everything, b/c you have a problem over which you have no control: your husband is an abuser. You cannot change him, and there is almost zero chance he will change because of his own history. You cannot rescue him; only he can change and rescue himself, but he will find it much, much easier to lay the blame on others. Yes, you have faults and you made mistakes--but HE made the decision to strike you. 

Please stop torturning yourself-that is all you are doing right now. You feel guilty so you find a way to punish yourself. This is a marriage everyone will tell you to walk away from, b/c it is literally a matter of life and death--sooner or later he could take your life. This is a "no brainer." Walk away, deal with the guilt in some more productive way so you don't have to suffer. 

Honestly, imagine a younger woman coming to you in this situation. What would you say to her? Be that kind and supportive to yourself!


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## whynotme (May 18, 2010)

Hi Zengirl,

You wrote: _"Whynotme: did you an your ex try everything before deciding to end the marriage. has anyone walked away feeling guilty and thinking they could of done more?" _

You asked did me & my ex try everything. Well, the answer is yes and no. I tried everything I knew. That's why I kept leaving and going back. I didn't want to just let my marriage go. I didn't want to feel guilty. I didn't want to be embarrassed about getting a divorce. And yes, I loved him too, when he wasn't being a jerk and abusing me. I tried everything I could to accept who he was and learn to live with it, the good and the bad. And then one day he went too far for me. He threatened to punch me and I knew he would do it one day, if he thought I would let him get away with it. I slept in the bed with one eye open. The day I knew for sure he was dangerous is the day he killed all the love I had for him.

When you look at your husband, you see a person that is worthy of at least the basic respect and dignity one person would give another as a human being. 

When he looks at you, he does not see a person, he sees a thing. On the inside, he has contempt for you. He thinks you are stupid because you want to be with him. So the more you try to show him love, them more he will lose respect for you. 

I'm not saying it makes sense. But that's what it is. Whatever comes out of his mouth, whatever words of love he says, to him those are just things he has learned to say. He doesn't know what love is. He's already shown you that in his actions.

You see that he needs love and part of you is responding to it. But he will not accept love from you because he doesn't think you are worth anything. 

Please, he has already treated you as less than human. In civilized society, adults don't hit each other. That gets stopped on the playground. Don't be his punching bag. Don't let your heart talk you into feeling sorry for him, because he feels absolutely nothing for you.

Hope this helps you stay away. Take care of yourself.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

When I write things down in an attempt to understand it all and try to find the essence of what went so wrong I use the same expression “she killed my love for her”.

My wife even flirted outrageously with a good made, she did it right under my nose. My mate was totally perplexed, she did it on a number of occasions. She’d ended up with so much contempt for me, so much lack of respect because I had way too much tolerance she thought she’d get away with it just by denying she wasn’t flirting.

“I do love you Bob”. Yeh right, of course you do. Talk about mind games.

Bob


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## zengirl (Jun 22, 2010)

Hey All,
Thought I update you with my situation. It has been more then a month and trust me it seems to get better day by day. I have been keeping myself busy, seeking counselling and alot of self help books. I have experienced all the emotions you can- sad, self-pitty, anger, happy etc. 

I am not sure if you went through this - but I don't miss my husband. I have no desire to talk to him or see him. He has tried to contact me and will text me for things just to check in. I know deep down its over. I thought there was a chance and my family and his met up last week. He was saying all the right things but when all said and done - he was angry and ended up walking away from the table because he thought I was criticizing. This is when I realized it doesn't matter what is said and done - he really hasn't realized what he has lost and I don't think I can help him.

The mind games still exist and I am sure they will until the divorce is finalized. I think he wants me to come back and say I miss him, I love him and can't live without him. Apart of me is upset and sorry for the dream but when I realize what I have been put through - the name calling, control, physical abuse... I don't miss it hence don't miss him. 

How long has it taken others to get over the separation? I feel like I am okay. My friends are surprised of how well I am doing. The only thing I fear is what people are going to say. I know I can't live my life for others and shouldn't care but I don't want the negative feedback. How does one deal with this?

Zengirl


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## CodeNameBob (Jun 3, 2010)

Zengirl,

Good for you, I am sure there are better days to come. I am glad that you have seenthat your safety, well being, life is more important than trying to fix your husband. 

Don't worry what people think, I was concerned and didn't want people to know, but it was killing me. I have found who I once was before marriage, an open person, an open book. Tell people what you are comfortable telling them about your situation, and remember those that truly care and love for you won't pass judgement at all.

Good luck!

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi ZenGirl,
You mean all those strong emotions of anger, dislike, sadness, self pity etc. have calmed down? Magic isn’t it. We look down the precipice but when we’re at the bottom it doesn’t seem such a bad place after all, it’s new territory and it feels good inside. I find I’m alone, by myself, but not once in six months have I felt lonely. I do though find I retain my dislike of my W but it’s nothing of the level it was before.

I’m left with the thought that my W hasn’t a clue about her abusive behaviour, she just can’t see that the way she behaved towards me was abusive. It came naturally to her and in that way it was somewhat unconscious. It’s a sobering thought born of a reasonably clear mind.

Good luck on your new journey.

Bob


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## zengirl (Jun 22, 2010)

Hey group... It's been a while since I last posted and a lot has happened. I left my husband early this summer because he hit me and sadly it happened more then once but the black eye was the last straw! It's funny how things come out... few months after leaving I also found out he was cheating on me with multiple people, going to massage parlous, videotaping neighboring women, playing maid games with hotel staff etc! I can tell you, I feel so stupid. I guess love is blind - you convince yourself - even though I had a feeling - that he wouldn't do that.

Well he was charged with domestic assault and where I live its an automatic charge. He plead not guilty only because he didn't want a criminal record and begged for me not to show. I was very conflicted. One one hand I think he deserves to be punished on the other- our relationship is done and I felt bad that he would have a criminal record. He has this dream of being a great politician! Until the court date he was so nice to me, apologizing... I started feeling really sorry for him. At the end of the day - I didn't show and the charges were dropped. Well, things didn't take long for him to get back to him normal self. I find out he is already seeing someone else, he started being very rude and is trying to make the divorce process difficult, started with the swearing etc! I feel like I have done everything right, tried not let my anger get in the way, I just want a clean break but seem like I am still getting used by this man. Don't know why he still has this hold over me. One point I feel strong and other days just useless. I wasn't married for long but it still hurts. I know getting a divorce is the right thing and its only a matter of getting the paper work through ... so why do I feel like this. Some of my friends have suggest to start dating.... not sure?? How long have other waiting to get back in the dating game?? Will the anger for my soon to be ex go away??


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## HM3 (Aug 18, 2010)

Hey,

I'm glad you came on here and gave an update.

I'm in the same boat as you - going through the divorce process. It's difficult aside from the abuse. It's the finality of it all - hard to deal with. Still can't understand why he didn't know how to be happy?

I don't know about you, but I can't even think of dating. It's probably best to wait until the divorce to start dating, but that's just my opinion.

Take care.


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