# Letting GO



## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

This summer I came down with a depression and didn't know it. My wife tried to talk to me but couldn't get through and eventually gave up on me and the marriage because she was unhappy. From what I can tell she started having an affair in August. In September I got suspicious because I discovered there was a lock on her phone and she didn't seem interested to make any time to spend with me. So I approached her and asked her if she still wanted to be married and her response was "I don't know" and "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and that she just wasn't satisfied with her role in the marriage as a stay at home mom. So I immediately went to work on fixing things, she agreed to go to counseling, I started doing chores around the house, more things with the kids, and giving her more attention. That being said I did it for a month and couldn't believe that it wasn't working to make things better, it was like no matter what I did it wasn't good enough. Mainly because she said she didn't think the changes were permanent. In October I managed to unlock her phone and discovered that she was having an affair, I confronted her immediately and she told me it was only physical, no emotional attachment, and that she had no problem breaking it off and working on the marriage. But when it came down to it she couldn't break it off because she was afraid of hurting him, so she told me she was going to try the no contact approach without actually breaking it off. Needless to say this didn't happen. Over the next few months she found more and more ways to go and see the OM. The OM even claimed to be suicidal a couple times at which she felt responsible and the need to go and comfort and care for him. One of which she didn't come home until it was time for me to leave for work in the morning and when she came home she was proud of herself for "doing the right thing." that was when I knew I need to do something more than just being a good husband and trying to show her how good I was. So I went and filed for divorce at first as a scare tactic but also to show that this behavior wasn't acceptable. She reacted negatively because she wasn't ready for that yet but it is what it is. This was at the end of November, I essentially gave her a month to break it off with the guy or show signs of working it out with me before I filed. Once I filed she became more committed to getting divorced than I am, she started a job working 3rd shift so she's gone 5 nights a week for that, and for the last 6 weeks she's spent at least one night out of the house partying with the OM each weekend where she doesn't come home until the morning. We have been married for 7 years and together for 9 years and have 4 young daughters ages 7 and under together. Her behavior is starting to affect the kids and give them fear of abandonment so I'm finally starting to shift my hate from the OM to her for what it's doing to them but I still want to reconcile at some point. I know that I can't reconcile alone and that right now the possibility of that happening is bleak without getting divorced first but that's still something I want. My wife is disowning any family or friends that get in her way because this is all about her happiness and anyone that wont let her be "happy" doesn't need to be in her life. Up until last weekend she would consistently show me affection and love but for the last week it's been ridiculously cold when I'm around her, no more hugs, no more kisses, no more I love you, nothing, even saying hello and good bye before and after work has stopped. This has essentially infuriated me and made me start the 180, I don't seek her out anymore, no more kisses, no more hugs, no more I love you, but again it's not what I want I want to do those things but doing it with someone with no emotion is disheartening and a waste. So I guess I'm here to ask for advice on what I can do if anything to turn this ship around, because right now the only thing I can see is to let her go because she's already gone.

Further background, the OM is not only a low life but a down grade. He has 2 felonies and 5 misdemeanors for drugs and is on probation from a DUI he got this fall. I'm educated, I own our home, I have a great job, and I'm not an abuser in any way. He also just got divorced this fall so my wife is essentially his rebound. I don't want him around my daughters but my wife thinks he's a good guy and will be good with the girls because his brother has kids so he has experience. I'm a great dad, I've spent all of my time through this with them making sure they feel loved and get attention, my wife doesn't do anything with them she's rarely there to begin with and when she is she's on her phone or in the bathroom beautifying herself. Since I filed I have not gotten a lawyer but I'm at a point right now where I'm ready for the gloves to come off and stop making this easy for her. I want to legally stop the OM from seeing my kids, fight for primary custody, and require her to start paying half the bills or move out because she still lives with me, she just sleeps in another room but I am sick of watching this happen. At first I was afraid of being alone but that fear has since left the building, I've taught myself that I'll be fine. I still believe the best life is with my wife (minus the OM and these selfish actions) but until that's an option I've just been focusing on myself and the kids. I've lost weight, I work out or run regularly, I started going to gym, and I'm joining sports leagues to meet people and network. If anyone can give me some advice on what more I can do or should do I would appreciate it, ultimately I want to put an end to this affair but it looks like it's going to have to die naturally at this point. The only fear I have right now is that she's not going to hit rock bottom and will actually be happy with this OM once all is said and done, and sadly I really don't want that to happen (I know it's selfish and I feel guilty for it but that's how I feel).

If I left anything out or if you need more detail let me know.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Whether you want to reconcile or not is totally irrelevant unless she wants the same thing. She has stated and shown you that she isn't interested in being married to you, so believe her and get on with the divorce. Your best shot at getting a good deal is to hire an attorney and get things moving as quickly as possible through the court system while she's still infatuated with the OM. It's a crappy road to go down, but there is a lot of guidance here on how to go through it in the least traumatic way for you and your children.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Bananapeel said:


> Whether you want to reconcile or not is totally irrelevant unless she wants the same thing. She has stated and shown you that she isn't interested in being married to you, so believe her and get on with the divorce. Your best shot at getting a good deal is to hire an attorney and get things moving as quickly as possible through the court system *while she's still infatuated with the OM*. It's a crappy road to go down, but there is a lot of guidance here on how to go through it in the least traumatic way for you and your children.


This is the part I regret now, after the fact, not taking advantage of. I waited til the OM's wife took him out of the equation and then after realizing she still wouldn't come back into the marriage, pushed on with the divorce paperwork. Now she is trying to be "mom of the year" as my lawyer said. If I would have done this when they were fully involved still, she would of been in the fog and I could have gotten everything I needed without much fight probably. Now she's just in the fog of I don't want to be with this dude even if I can't be with my lover lol. Act now while the enemy is distracted!


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm sorry your predicament finds you here...you can't carry a marriage on your own, what is sad is that your wife thought more of him than you, willing to support him and disrespect you...i hope you had an std test. at this point you need to work on yourself and your kids...and move towards the divorce...


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, please reread what you wrote. You said, your wife checked out on you because you were depressed so she started having an affair with a guy who is suicidal. Later you said she wouldn't take time to be with you, but even later you said she stopped being affectionate at all.
You have been gas lighted. The first thing you need to do is put away any thought of reconciliation and start focusing on what is really happening to you. Do not allow her to dictate what you think, because that is what you have been doing.

The reality is you probably got depressed because she had already stopped making time for you and being affectionate, because she was already having an affair and you sensed it. Depression is something that happens when reality doesn't meet your expectations.

Your best bet, as others have said is to strike now while the fog of the affair is still strong. Right now she wants to leave. So let her. You and your children will be better off without someone who doesn't want to be there in your lives. You will also be teaching your children how a man should act when his partner is out catting around.

She wants to leave so make the best deal that you can NOW. Because I can almost guarantee you that down the road she will want to come back. Her AP will decide it is no longer all fun and games if she is a free agent. She will discover that partying the weekend away is no way to live your life and she will start having regrets. So take advantage of the situation now to cut her out of as many of the marital assets as possible and grab the greatest advantage for your self.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I'm definitely ready to hire a lawyer, I've only held off because of the affection and attention I would occasionally got made me think she was still on the fence and I didn't want to invest in a lawyer that I didn't need. At this point she's so cold I don't know who she is so it's time to stop waiting and get it done.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I never thought of it this way, I kept looking at her being with the OM so deep and have struggled to find a positive light. I've held on as long as I could and I still want to hang on but at this point I just feel silly. Don't take this the wrong way but it's good to know that once the OM is gone she still might not come back just yet if ever.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

mggarske said:


> I never thought of it this way, I kept looking at her being with the OM so deep and have struggled to find a positive light. I've held on as long as I could and I still want to hang on but at this point I just feel silly. Don't take this the wrong way but it's good to know that once the OM is gone she still might not come back just yet if ever.



Keep telling yourself you are not "plan b" for any woman....stop thinking of yourself like that.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

wow. shes just as proud as a peacock and as entitled as a fairyland princess.

no one will get in the way of her 'happiness', not family, husband, kids, marital responsibilities or honor or morality.
by gosh, nobody better dare interfere with her happiness!

oh, and that lie about 'its just physical' was just that..........a lie, because as soon as soon as her drug addict boyfriend started crying, she ran
to comfort him. shes not even fit to be a mother. she is unrepentant and will cheat again with you or someone else when given a chance.

i am so sorry friend. i am painting a horrid picture of her behavior for a reason. so you can see that you will be far better off without her 
and seek a new life.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

You should have gotten lawyer day 1 so my advice is get a lawyer NOW. Don't wait. You'll get full custody of the kids if she's going to shack up with some felon or even have him in the family home around them. This is not a do-it-yourself kind of thing. You have you and the kids to think about. Get a lawyer today.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

mggarske,
From where I sit, you are doing everything that you could possibly do. Your wife is clearly demonstrating that she doesn't want to be married to you. Or apparently to be a mother to the children you share ... or an adult either. What I want to know is why you would still want to be married to the woman that you are describing?

My husband's recent infidelity came at the end of a major depression for me. It lasted for about 3 or 4 years and was really bad for almost a year. (Although I suspect that infidelity-induced rage would not be a recommended treatment for depression, it was a big factor in helping me find the energy to climb out of mine.) How do you feel about your state of mind right now? Have you undergone any treatment or therapy? 

I will share with you that the reconciliation that my husband and I are in at the moment is still not entirely assured and has taken an enormous amount of effort from both of us - for more than 18 months now. We have had huge support from therapists (IC and marriage) and also been lucky enough to be able to focus on our marriage, although at some cost to both of our careers. The point of me sharing this with you is to let you know that I have some context for these:
- Your depression is not a good enough reason for your wife's affair. Her behaviour and choices are on her. Many marriages go through much worse without one spouse choosing to be unfaithful. That is what vows are - promises of faithfulness and commitment that we make that are for the times when things are not going to be good and easy.
- Unless the two of you are standing shoulder to shoulder in a reconciliation, it will never even get off the ground. There is no hope. 

So I want to challenge you to ask yourself a really hard question - "Is the woman that she is right now someone that I want to spend the rest of my life with?" 

Letting go of something is easy when you realise you don't actually want it anyway,


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I am going to individual counseling, I started with hope that she would one day join me but that isn't happening so now it's just for me. My counselor knows everything and wants me to let go as well and I am trying. I guess I get frustrated over losing what is now gone and my hope clings to the memories of things that are no longer there.

She has done a lot of gas lighting almost nothing is her fault. She cant be with me because she resents me and gets mad when I'm around. She can't be with me because my mom is upset and how she's acted. She can't be with me because too many people know now. The list goes on but it's never her fault.

To answer your question no I don't want to be with someone who is never there. I want to be with the person that used to be there. Yes I could be the guy she goes out with for nights on the town and having fun and yeah that would be nice, but I don't want to be left at home with the kids while she goes and does that with "friends" every weekend. I also don't want to share my wife with anyone. I've made a lot of excuses for her and gave her a ton of chances but they haven't done anything. I've definitely been her plan b for a while now because she knows I'll be there, especially for the kids. She has told me she's proud of me for the changes I've made but keeps telling me I was too late.

I understand reconciliation will be hard and honestly if we get divorced which is where this train wreck is headed it'll be even harder for me to consider doing this over again. I guess I wish she would have worked on it months ago when this was in its infancy stages at my discovery. At discovery she said she didn't want to break her family up and that she wanted to see where things went but she sat on that fence and gradually moved closer and closer to the OM.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

OP you're a cuckold, a reluctant one; but one nonetheless. As a man how can you even be contemplating to try to get her back, when she's ****ing another man. Where's your self-respect, where's your manhood???

Divorce her. Work on yourself to become a man that any one would have respect for. Gain your manhood back, this will ensure better sucess in your next relationship.

Your only concern toward her should be that of ensuring a successful co-parenting for your kids.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Is she using drugs with OM?


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Yes, he got her to start using a vap pen with cannabis oil. She never did drugs before that but that's all I have evidence of. I've been told he gave her pills I'm assuming ecstasy but she denied that.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

mggarske said:


> Yes, he got her to start using a vap pen with cannabis oil. She never did drugs before that but that's all I have evidence of. I've been told he gave her pills I'm assuming ecstasy but she denied that.


Well...

Get a PI. Get evidence you can bring to the police. He's on probation, right?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mggarske said:


> I still believe the best life is with my wife (minus the OM and these selfish actions) but until that's an option I've just been focusing on myself and the kids.


OP, your actions in response to her cheating have been sound, if somewhat hesitant. But that's understandable.

However, I do get the sense that if she decided she wanted R, you'd be susceptible to rug sweeping her A. Her stopping contact and pretending to be remorseful would not be nearly enough. Your mindset should be - that ending contact would only be the first of many consequences she'd have to accept to earn your "consideration" for a second chance. There's a fine line between being open to R with a remorseless, actively cheating wife and a willingness to be her plan B. It seems that you are very close to the latter. Frankly, based on your depiction of her, I don't see how you can believe your "best life" is with this woman; now that she has shown you who she is. You long for a life with the woman you thought she was, not who she's proven to be. 

So, my advice is to rid yourself of any notion of R and fully expect that you will complete the D and move on with your life. The chances of her doing a complete turn around and demonstrating genuine remorse are extremely remote, based on how she's disrespecting you - essentially flaunting the A in your face. You should implement the 180 to detach from her, formulate an exit strategy and consult with an attorney to get that divorce moving - as quickly as possible.

You deserve better than her.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

OP, lawyer up. Cancel all joint accounts. Move all joint money into your own account. Move all your valuables into a safe place. Including all documents such as passports, birth certificates etc. Including the children's. Remove her from 401K as a beneficiary. Find out if her affair partner has a significant other. Inform them if so. Have her served with a divorce petition. On same day inform everyone.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I spoke with a lawyer today I should have everything ponied up there on Wednesday. I have a court date set for next week on the 31st and you guys are helping me take the gloves off. This guy has a horrible family from my understanding and his wife left him for OM last summer so he's free to do what he wants apparently, even his friends support him in what he's doing from what I'm told. 

The OM is on probation, I have photos of my wife's pipe sitting in her make-up bag where the kids could get it and my lawyer said that's enough to make the allegation.

I have started the 180 and have been doing it for the last week the best I can. I hugged her this morning on my way out the door but it was like hugging a light post so I probably wont be making that mistake again. That's the most of the physical contact I've made and I haven't said I love you or anything like that in a week as well. I have done everything I could think of on my end to show that I was an attractive option for her and work towards R so it's not that I'm willing to be plan B I'm more fighting a losing battle and have been holding back to make sure I didn't hurt the chances of R. But I'm at a point right now where the coldness is helping to motivate me to stop holding back, it sucks that that's what it took but up until last week she would routinely show "signs" of still loving me it wasn't all the time but it was sprinkled in if you know what I mean. I am the one that filed in response to her actions and she was very upset by it and I hated doing it but I did it. This board is helping me see that I need to just do it as she's not coming back at least not while we're still married.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

mggarske said:


> I spoke with a lawyer today I should have everything ponied up there on Wednesday. I have a court date set for next week on the 31st and you guys are helping me take the gloves off. This guy has a horrible family from my understanding and his wife left him for OM last summer so he's free to do what he wants apparently, even his friends support him in what he's doing from what I'm told.
> 
> The OM is on probation, I have photos of my wife's pipe sitting in her make-up bag where the kids could get it and my lawyer said that's enough to make the allegation.
> 
> I have started the 180 and have been doing it for the last week the best I can. I hugged her this morning on my way out the door but it was like hugging a light post so I probably wont be making that mistake again. That's the most of the physical contact I've made and I haven't said I love you or anything like that in a week as well. I have done everything I could think of on my end to show that I was an attractive option for her and work towards R so it's not that I'm willing to be plan B I'm more fighting a losing battle and have been holding back to make sure I didn't hurt the chances of R. But I'm at a point right now where the coldness is helping to motivate me to stop holding back, it sucks that that's what it took but up until last week she would routinely show "signs" of still loving me it wasn't all the time but it was sprinkled in if you know what I mean. I am the one that filed in response to her actions and she was very upset by it and I hated doing it but I did it. This board is helping me see that I need to just do it as she's not coming back at least not while we're still married.


Perfect. Don't be Plan B. Ever. 

I hope you are not sharing her bed. I'd kick her out of the bedroom and put a padlock on the door. Consider demanding that she move out asap and go live with the loser. Then you get custody of kids and you keep house and she pays you child support.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mggarske said:


> I have started the 180 and have been doing it for the last week the best I can. I hugged her this morning on my way out the door but it was like hugging a light post so I probably wont be making that mistake again. That's the most of the physical contact I've made and I haven't said I love you or anything like that in a week as well.
> 
> *Hugging her is not implementing the 180. Re-read it and try harder.*
> 
> ...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You get depressed and she is out in 2 months. Nah that's a bull**** story she is telling you. She has been done for a while. 

Look man, life is damn hard, you need someone who is loyal, this women is not. Don't struggle so hard to hold on to an *******. Life is way too short. Someone who really loves you is going to fight with you against life being hard, not expect only you to be the one fighting. 

Seriously the best thing you can do is see this women for who she is not who you romanticize her to be. You can still have romantic notions about being with someone who is like that, but you should not dream of her being that women, because she ain't.

Read some of these stories the strong ones always do much better.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I’m glad to see you are finally doing a hard 180 and getting serious with the D, including fighting for full custody to keep your drug using WW and this absolute POS dirtbag away from your kids......

Because up to this point your story has been a textbook example of a truism posters here constantly tell new arrivals.....

You CANNOT nice them back.....it NEVER works.

From now on, play nothing but hardball with your WW......annihilate Fantasyland by refusing to foot the bill for any more of her playtime....kick her out if possible, and refuse to pay a red cent for anything for her.....and fight hard for sole custody based on her drug use.

Frankly, your WW is insane if she thinks having a criminal drug user, including 2 felonies, around your kids is ever going to be acceptable to you or anyone other family member who has any love for those girls.

And if you get any evidence on POSOM and drug use whatsoever.....blow this scumbag up with his PO.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Fight hard for your kids. Also fight hard for you. If your wife is meeting the OM one or two nights per week, notify her that she has children duty on other nights and make yourself scarce. Either go out with buddies or find someone else to hang with. Heck, just get out and see a movie, etc. But, make it perfectly clear that if the OM so much as sets foot in your house you will have him arrested. You can set up a security camera around your house if you need, and let her know it's there.

Don't roll over. Fight for your dignity and fight for your kids.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

mggarske said:


> Yes, he got her to start using a vap pen with cannabis oil. She never did drugs before that but that's all I have evidence of. I've been told he gave her pills I'm assuming ecstasy but she denied that.


Get your lawyer on this immediately!

The OM is known drug offender on probation and if the court orders a drug test on her, any positive result will impact child custody and whether she can have the kids unsupervised and whether the court will allow the OM around them. 

Do not wait on this and do not try to be "nice" and not upset her. 

You are slowly starting to grow your balls back here and are slowly starting to catch on and take the right steps. 

Now is the time to get some actual brass balls and take some definitive action. 

If she is getting involved in drugs, it is time to take the gloves off where the kids are concerned. 

Here is the thing - she will test positive for other drugs. Cheaters lie and druggies lie. 

You want to know when they are lying - just look to see if their mouths are moving. 

She lied when she said she declined the pills and she lies when she says they aren't doing drugs. 

Bring some kind of evidence to your lawyer and the court can request a drug test. 

Since this is a custody matter and not a criminal prosecution of a crime, the bar for evidence is a lot lower for them to order drug screening as part of the custody case. 

If she wants unsupervised custody - she pee's in a cup. She can refuse the drug test as this is not a criminal trial, but then her refusal will weigh in on the custody determination. 

Report this and any evidence to your lawyer immediately.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

mggarske:

As soon as I saw that pipe she would have been out of the house and away from my kids. Actually, OM is her drug of choice. You need to read this thread. This is the road she is headed down. File as soon as possible while she is still amenable. This is not salvageable.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/93642-i-abandoned-my-cheating-wife.html


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

We are no longer sharing a bed, she moved out of the bedroom and took over one of my kids rooms after new years. So it's been about 3 weeks since we slept in the same bed. She had asked me to snuggle her a couple times, most recently last weekend but since then she has been cold towards me. Last night she reach out to touch me while I was making the kids dinner but pulled her hand back and made sure I knew what she did. She also was seeking a good bye kiss before she left to go "running" with people she just met and to the "gym" before work. I feel like that was just her playing games, trying to make me think she still cares but I don't know. Last night I found a key in my bathroom I'm assuming to the OM place so that was reinforcement for me to keep doing what I'm doing. I'm still confused by her actions and am reluctant to do what I know I need to do because I don't want it to work against me down the road but she has not given me any indication of wanting to stay in the marriage and that's what I have to keep telling myself. Up until recently I have only gotten mad at the OM and have made excuses for her whether it be the fog or her addiction to the affair but since then my anger has started to shift towards her, I've done so much research trying to figure out what's going on in her head that I have ignored reality and what I've needed to do.

We have court one week from today and that will be a true test for me. A test to do what I know I need to do and not back down when she starts to attack me to get me to fold. That has been her strategy on just about every issue we've ever dealt with whether she was in the wrong or not. I've never wanted to see my family broken like this and don't want to sweep this under the rug but I don't want it to define my future either, whether that be with her or without her, lord knows I'm going to have to see her regularly for many many years. It interesting to hear others say she checked out long before she cheated as she has said the same thing, she's also said I deserve better than her. I know I'm going to be fine without her, maybe even better off, I guess at this point I wanted to make sure I couldn't look back and think I didn't do everything I could to fix things, I'm an engineer by trade and fixing things is what I do for a living so that mentality has carried over into this situation.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

This is going to be a classic case of her begging for you back somewhere down the road. Once she realizes he is a criminal and has nothing to offer. Stay strong.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mggarske said:


> I'm still confused by her actions and am reluctant to do what I know I need to do because I don't want it to work against me down the road


How will it work against you? Against letting her believe you'll be there as her plan B? Failing to work the 180 will just reinforce that belief. You can't nice her back. You shouldn't be confused. Unless she suddenly shows you that she will do anything and accept anything to save her marriage, your path should be unambiguous. 

*WORK* the 180.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get the PI. Find out who his probation officer is. Do whatever you have to to keep them away from them. Is your lawyer asking for full custody? Where does he work? Talk to his ex. Whatever you heard about her is probably a lie. Who told you about her and his friends?


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I agree with the previous poster, how is focusing on your self going to work against you? Stop even entertaining the thought of her crawling back. For that matter why in the heck would you want her? She has and is cheating on you, now she is playing games with you and stringing you along. For the love of your self and your kids just stop!


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I guess my fear is that my actions in court, doing what I know I need to do, will be used in the sense of gas lighting and it's very difficult to determine what is gas lighting and what is real at this point. I'm sure I'm not the only person that's been victim to a cheating spouse saying "I was thinking about coming back but now I'm not because you did this" or "you must not love me if your doing this to me" or "you just put the nail in your coffin by doing this to me." Basically insinuating that she was thinking of coming back but now she's not because of something I did in reaction to her actions. So my fear is having to deal with that and trying to figure out if she really was thinking of coming back or is just saying that to make me feel bad for doing what needs to be done. That's what I mean when I say I'm reluctant because I don't want it to work against me down the road.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Check out the NOMORE MISTER NICE GUY free download book. A must is reading MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. It will explain how you let your marriage go off the rails and why she picked bad boy over you.

You already sound like your backsliding into the pick me dance that has NEVER worked here one time out of the multiple thousands of threads. Listen and remember this, unless she comes back begging and crying there is no, nada, zero hope for reconciliation. The only thing that ever works is shock and awe and often when she knows you have started dating.

What felonies did he commit?


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I've thought about contacting his ex but haven't because of fear of the same things described in this thread. I know about her and his friends feelings from things my wife has told me, that's all I have though. Lately it's seemed like my wife is making new friends outside of his circle though so I'm not sure she's completely set on just being with this LL and his friends. Outside of the LL and his friends all our friends are mutual and she's cutting ties with them left and right. I am planning to ask for full custody, I'm not sure I'll get it because the system sucks but I'll be a lot happier with the D if I get the kids and am there to protect and care for them full time.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

mggarske said:


> I guess my fear is that my actions in court, doing what I know I need to do, will be used in the sense of gas lighting and it's very difficult to determine what is gas lighting and what is real at this point. I'm sure I'm not the only person that's been victim to a cheating spouse saying "I was thinking about coming back but now I'm not because you did this" or "you must not love me if your doing this to me" or "you just put the nail in your coffin by doing this to me." Basically insinuating that she was thinking of coming back but now she's not because of something I did in reaction to her actions. So my fear is having to deal with that and trying to figure out if she really was thinking of coming back or is just saying that to make me feel bad for doing what needs to be done. That's what I mean when I say I'm reluctant because I don't want it to work against me down the road.


STOP! You didn't put the nail in the coffin, you didn't do anything to stop anything. SHE is cheating on you! Are you insane! Stop worrying about what she thinks. Are you really willing to take back a wife who is actively cheating on you? Are you that big a loser? It shouldn't even matter whether she is thinking about coming back at all


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

His felonies were drug related with respect to cocaine possession and I believe distribution.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

mggarske said:


> I guess my fear is that my actions in court, doing what I know I need to do, will be used in the sense of gas lighting and it's very difficult to determine what is gas lighting and what is real at this point. I'm sure I'm not the only person that's been victim to a cheating spouse saying "I was thinking about coming back but now I'm not because you did this" or "you must not love me if your doing this to me" or "you just put the nail in your coffin by doing this to me." Basically insinuating that she was thinking of coming back but now she's not because of something I did in reaction to her actions. So my fear is having to deal with that and trying to figure out if she really was thinking of coming back or is just saying that to make me feel bad for doing what needs to be done. That's what I mean when I say I'm reluctant because I don't want it to work against me down the road.


Lol, yes they almost always say that. You say, why would I want someone like you back. Ho bags are dime a dozen. When someone shows you how low they will go, believe them.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Read the long er threads here. You will see what works and what doesn’t. When she cheated that showed you what kind of person she really is. Look what she cheated with. A drug dealer. She s broken. He’s broken. Your number one responsibility in life is protecting your family. Now your family has to be protected from their mother. It happens. Step up, man up.0


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I believe that everything happens for a reason, the only possible thing I can think of in this case is to make me be a better father and husband as it has motivated me to be more active with the kids not just outside the home but inside as well. I've always been the fun parent and have since started doing more of the chores around the house, and even though it started as trying to get her back it's prepared me for life without her. I'm not a loser for wanting to R, I may be dumb for wanting it but I don't see it as being a loser. I know deep down that it's over for this marriage as it stands and if there is ever a future together it wont be for a good long while after the dust settles and she sees what life is like without me or that she isn't going to find anyone better for the kids and/or her from a support stand point. And until she sees that she's putting the kids at risk and that sucks. I also know even if I want to R I can't do it alone as she keeps going further and further away from the marriage.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

mggarske said:


> His felonies were drug related with respect to cocaine possession and I believe distribution.


Have you considered the PI?


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

The lawyer said I have enough to make an allegation in court and get a drug test order issued so no I haven't considered a PI. I've also been told his record is enough to request a motion be issued to prevent him from contact with the kids.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

mggarske said:


> I believe that everything happens for a reason, the only possible thing I can think of in this case is to make me be a better father and husband as it has motivated me to be more active with the kids not just outside the home but inside as well. I've always been the fun parent and have since started doing more of the chores around the house, and even though it started as trying to get her back it's prepared me for life without her. I'm not a loser for wanting to R, I may be dumb for wanting it but I don't see it as being a loser. I know deep down that it's over for this marriage as it stands and if there is ever a future together it wont be for a good long while after the dust settles and she sees what life is like without me or that she isn't going to find anyone better for the kids and/or her from a support stand point. And until she sees that she's putting the kids at risk and that sucks. I also know even if I want to R I can't do it alone as she keeps going further and further away from the marriage.


STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP even thinking about reconciliation. Just STOP even thinking about it! Don't even mention it ever again and if you find your self telling your self remind your self to STOP! You need to move forward as if there is NO future with this woman. She has cheated on you! Unless you want to live life as a cuckold STOP thinking about it!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There is no confusion here.

She is a bad apple and is treating you with unimaginable disrespect. 

Her deplorable behavior is bursting the dream bubble you had built up in your head about her.

You are catching on painfully slowly, but you are catching on.

Trust that she sucks.

Have faith and belief that she is not a good person.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mggarske said:


> I guess my *fear* is that my actions in court, doing what I know I need to do, will be used in the sense of gas lighting
> 
> So my *fear* is having to deal with that and trying to figure out if she really was thinking of coming back or is just saying that to make me feel bad for doing what needs to be done.


It seems you have many fears, but one that is all encompassing. Your fear of divorce. Get past that, start acting decisively and you'll be well on your way to getting out of infidelity, whether you R or D. Until that happens you'll remain in a miserable limbo, caused by your own inaction.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Their is nothing ingerently wrong with reconcilliation. The but is you can’t play nice and get it. Your wife has to see and feel her family is vanishing. By playing nice, ironically you have increased the distance and respect she has for you. What we are telling you feels counter productive. It isn’t, women want bold strong men. Your wife looks down on simply because you are willing to take her back knowing she is banging another man. Your behavior literally disgusts her. She doesn’t want a man willing to walk around with his tail between his legs begging for sloppy seconds. This isn’t rocket science its evolutionary/biblical common sense logic. Bottom line, you have done everything wrong. Statistically you only ever had a 15% chance of reconcilliation when the wife cheats. That is zero chance with what you are doing. What you need to prove now is other desirable women want you. You also need to show her that her kids will never be allowed around a drug dealer.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

sokillme said:


> You get depressed and she is out in 2 months. Nah that's a bull**** story she is telling you. She has been done for a while.
> 
> Look man, life is damn hard, you need someone who is loyal, this women is not. *Don't struggle so hard to hold on to an *******. Life is way too short*. Someone who really loves you is going to fight with you against life being hard, not expect only you to be the one fighting.
> 
> ...


All this, I made the error and once i got through the fog I realized who she was and she is nothing like the vision I had of her, I actually regret not divorcing my XW years ago.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You are keeping a record of her coming and going and everything she has done and is doing right? 

Another good idea is to check out dadsdivorce.com and chumplady.com.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

She wants it all, you as plan B, the best settlement, to keep her reputation intact it is standard practice, my XW did the exact same and i fell for it just as you are and have kicked myself many time since for being such a *****!!! She will keep you down and rewrite history and further kill your self esteem. make sure everyone you both know knows the truth, do not bow down to her, start being focused on the process of getting her out your life and moving on, read about all your rights, the laws and make sure you are one step ahead of her.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

To my knowledge everyone we know knows what she's doing and there are very few supporters; her own mother, sisters, and brothers all disagree with her and her actions. For the record when I found out about the affair I did demand that it stop, she said she would but she made the choice not to stop it and to be on the fence. I am guilty of letting her sit on the fence but through my research I found that I couldn't put pressure on her as it would push her to him so I left it alone. This is also advice I got from friends that supported me in wanting to R. I didn't hide the facts for what was going on when I talked to friends and family but I left her alone. Whenever she didn't come home at night I told her she couldn't live at our house and do what she was doing, unfortunately I couldn't do anything legally at the time. I've also told her to go live with the OM if that's where she wanted to be. She claimed she didn't want that and that they never talked about being serious like that because she's not leaving me for the OM she's leaving me because she didn't think she could be happy with me because of our past issues. I honestly don't know if there's anything I could have done to get her to want to R in the last four months based on what I have seen her do and hear her say. I am going to move forward with the D as discussed, I have been patient, forgiving, and understanding and maybe that is viewed as weak right now but that's one hell of a beating to take and still go to work every day, spend time with the kids, and take care of yourself and not skip a beat. If she thinks I'm weak because of that I'll be sure to put that on the list of reasons I think she's an idiot. I appreciate the brutal feedback about her and her actions it really helps but don't fault me for trying to do the right thing or what I believe in to protect my goal (although it may have never been achievable it was my goal). I have said and done everything I could, the only thing lacking has been my reluctance to push the D since I filed in November and avoiding all conversations about the D to keep the peace and not push her further towards it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Don’t ever think we are faulting you. 100% of the affair is n her and so
is the decision for her to stay in it. He’s a doper and she getting her thrills for now.

What we are doing is trying to help you heal as quick as possible. Look
up the five stages of grief. What you are going through is worse than
anything other than the death of a child. We are also showing you that you cannot fix her no matter what you try. She made her pick, stupid as it is. She won’t pick you now because you are thinking you are doing things to attract her but in reality you are pushing her further because you aren’t acting in manly way. She sees what you are doing as a lpay for pity. Your friends haven’t experienced the thousands of betrayal this and other boards have. Hell, most of the marriage counselors can’t deal with adultery. Lawyers advice rests on expedience not R.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

mggarske said:


> I guess my fear is that my actions in court, doing what I know I need to do, will be used in the sense of gas lighting and it's very difficult to determine what is gas lighting and what is real at this point. I'm sure I'm not the only person that's been victim to a cheating spouse saying "I was thinking about coming back but now I'm not because you did this" or "you must not love me if your doing this to me" or "you just put the nail in your coffin by doing this to me." Basically insinuating that she was thinking of coming back but now she's not because of something I did in reaction to her actions. So my fear is having to deal with that and trying to figure out if she really was thinking of coming back or is just saying that to make me feel bad for doing what needs to be done. That's what I mean when I say I'm reluctant because I don't want it to work against me down the road.


The reason a WW talks about coming back is because in her head she has the OM wanting her and you wanting her, so she feels like she is hot stuff and has all the control. BUT, this is all an illusion that will leave as soon as you divorce her skanky ass. For F- sake, you are an engineer! Why the heck would you want to settle for a cheater when you can have it all, if you have the patience to see this through to the end and take the time to heal and improve yourself??? The women I date now are so far above my XW's that it's almost comical that we were ever married. 

Now as far as your actions in court goes, you are just making an excuse to yourself to justify your failure to act. You have no obligation to do anything in court...that is what you hire the lawyer for! Let him take care of everything for you and you just sit quietly and let him know you want to keep your verbal interactions to a minimum.

Oh, check your PM's.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

OP, listen to @Bananapeel.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

What I find appalling is how cheaters can still legally live with you in the same house and still cheat around all they want and come home..... and not really a darn thing one can do except leave, which is not advisable anyways. . 
I don't mean just you OP, but all the situations I see like this, are totally disgraceful acts from the CS. I don't have any advice that hasn't been given already, best luck to you and be strong for you and your kids. Do. Not. Ever. Put. Up. With. Abuse. 

Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> because in her head she has the OM wanting her and you wanting her, so she feels like she is hot stuff


Agreed but also there maybe guilt about what she's doing but the backlash is not sufficient to stop her from going to the OM.

It's called the pick me dance and rarely does a betrayed partner get the outcome they want by taking the "understanding I'll be there for you" route because all it does is encourage the "I don't know what I want, I need to figure things out" nonsense.

Congratulations on wanting the end the cycle of nonsense and disrespect.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Last night she left early to go to run and go to the "gym" again before work which was always her alibi for when she cheated on me before I found out. When she left she sought me out to kiss me on the forehead before she left. I didn't care I let it go, this morning when she got home from work she tried to act like she was interested in me. But then I saw on her phone her background is a picture of her with the OM. That was enough to tell me I'm still doing the right thing meeting with a lawyer today. I'm not going to lie up until a couple weeks ago I would have taken her back in a heart beat with no hesitation. But I'm now to a point where I'm asking myself why am I doing this, why am I going out of my way for someone that say's thanks and I appreciate it but still does this ****. I'm still scared of what will happen once I get the lawyer, whether it be backlash from her (which I fully expect) or her trying to come back (which at this point I don't know if I would take her back right away anymore). I'm scared of the backlash because she is the only one I have a hard time being mean to because she's my wife, she's not a stranger or a friend, I don't know with her it's just different and it's easier to fold. But I'm more scared about her trying to come back, this is something I'm starting to realize as I get closer to getting the lawyer because I wanted her to come back so bad before, I'm scared she may convince me to do it and have to go through this all over again down the road. If things continue and I do get the divorce it's definitely going to be easier to say no than it is now as I'm learning the further we get into this the more I'm detaching.  Thanks for the support everyone, keep it coming.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

mggarske said:


> Last night she left early to go to run and go to the "gym" again before work which was always her alibi for when she cheated on me before I found out. When she left she sought me out to kiss me on the forehead before she left. I didn't care I let it go, this morning when she got home from work she tried to act like she was interested in me. But then I saw on her phone her background is a picture of her with the OM. That was enough to tell me I'm still doing the right thing meeting with a lawyer today. I'm not going to lie up until a couple weeks ago I would have taken her back in a heart beat with no hesitation. But I'm now to a point where I'm asking myself why am I doing this, why am I going out of my way for someone that say's thanks and I appreciate it but still does this ****. I'm still scared of what will happen once I get the lawyer, whether it be backlash from her (which I fully expect) or her trying to come back (which at this point I don't know if I would take her back right away anymore). I'm scared of the backlash because she is the only one I have a hard time being mean to because she's my wife, she's not a stranger or a friend, I don't know with her it's just different and it's easier to fold. But I'm more scared about her trying to come back, this is something I'm starting to realize as I get closer to getting the lawyer because I wanted her to come back so bad before, I'm scared she may convince me to do it and have to go through this all over again down the road. If things continue and I do get the divorce it's definitely going to be easier to say no than it is now as I'm learning the further we get into this the more I'm detaching. Thanks for the support everyone, keep it coming.


"If things continue"? I have some news for you. They are continuing. Not only are they continuing, but expect them to get worse. Whether you do anything or not.
If you do nothing she will be even more emboldened. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if she wouldn't just invite the OP over for a "run" because you have made it so easy.
If you get a lawyer expect her actions to ratchet up to meet your own.
In the first case all you have to look forward to is a lifetime of being a cuckold. In the second case, at least you will know when it is all over, you get to escape the craziness with your balls still attached.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I'm assuming when you say "expect her actions to ratchet up to meet my own" you mean that she is going to get a lawyer and fight pretty much everything I'm trying to do and make me her enemy?

My goals right now are to keep the OM from my kids and get her to start paying half the bills for the house or leave. Those two things are going to be the things that piss her off the most in the short term, but honestly what does she expect to happen (live with me for free, free food, free everything while she does this ****). Right now she literally pays nothing, I've gotten $200 from her the last two months, she didn't buy any of the xmas presents or bday presents for our daughters birthday a couple weeks ago. After that it's the custody battle, and I'm expecting the "how could you do this to me" line to be hammered on me the whole way.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Here's some strategy advice for you. Don't fight with her about anything and play nice with where she lives and what she contributes financially. Basically, don't start fights over little battles when your goal is to win the war. A big legal battle with costs you thousands or tens of thousands, so if she wants to live rent free for a bit and doesn't fight you in the divorce, then count yourself lucky. If she goes for a fight, then toss her ass out.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

This needs to be a total blindside. In court, when she least expects it, you start producing evidence of drug use, then you double down and introduce evidence of her AP's criminality. Then the normal asset division should take place, but after the court gets a load of what she is doing, you can expect that she will walk out of that building with significantly less than when she entered. 

At that point, you should get a RO on her AP. You do not want a felon around your children. That ties a can to your STBXWW's tail. In my experience, when this happens, I get that horrified call. Suddenly, they have lost a place to live, a spouse, children, lifestyle and friends. They have replaced all of that with a used up AP, with questionable background and morals. The degree to which they have fallen becomes horribly apparent. I usually counsel clients to seek out IC, to deal with the coming onslaught. It is usually divided 50/50. Half the reactions are anger: How could you do this to me? The other half start the begging to reconcile. Seems that once the gavel comes down, suddenly there is clarity in affairland: Half think that they can screw around, and keep everything the way it was. The other half think they can just say, "Forgive me, please" and make it all better.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

mggarske said:


> I'm assuming when you say "expect her actions to ratchet up to meet my own" you mean that she is going to get a lawyer and fight pretty much everything I'm trying to do and make me her enemy?
> 
> My goals right now are to keep the OM from my kids and get her to start paying half the bills for the house or leave. Those two things are going to be the things that piss her off the most in the short term, but honestly what does she expect to happen (live with me for free, free food, free everything while she does this ****). Right now she literally pays nothing, I've gotten $200 from her the last two months, she didn't buy any of the xmas presents or bday presents for our daughters birthday a couple weeks ago. After that it's the custody battle, and I'm expecting the "how could you do this to me" line to be hammered on me the whole way.


I mean the warm/chill cycle will become a HOT/COLD cycle on its way to Fire/Ice cycle. Expect the games to get more intense. Rather than just a kiss on the fore head, expect her to try to outright seduce you into compliance and then if she gets rejected the reverberations will be just as severe. 
Notice I said "if". That is my reaction to your continued way of thinking. You need to stop with the "if" and start thinking in absolutes. As in when you divorce and when you kick her out and when you tell her to start paying etc.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, so many of the regrets and so much of the anger I still carry over three years later come from the fact that I didn't man-up when I should have. I get angry at myself that she was able to buy a condo less than three months after our divorce, yet at the time of our divorce she didn't have the money to make a deposit on an apartment and I stupidly gave it to her. I let her walk away with a paid in full 1 year car while I had just taken out a 60 month loan on a 5 year old car. I let her walk away with a 401k after I had lost everything during the mortgage meltdown. I let her walk away with half the equity in the house, that she had NEVER made a payment on and had stopped helping in its renovation at least 5 years before. While she was able to benefit from all those things, it was because I allowed it to happen. Do not let that happen to you.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Ynot said:


> OP, so many of the regrets and so much of the anger I still carry over three years later come from the fact that I didn't man-up when I should have. I get angry at myself that she was able to buy a condo less than three months after our divorce, yet at the time of our divorce she didn't have the money to make a deposit on an apartment and I stupidly gave it to her. I let her walk away with a paid in full 1 year car while I had just taken out a 60 month loan on a 5 year old car. I let her walk away with a 401k after I had lost everything during the mortgage meltdown. I let her walk away with half the equity in the house, that she had NEVER made a payment on and had stopped helping in its renovation at least 5 years before. While she was able to benefit from all those things, it was because I allowed it to happen. Do not let that happen to you.


Just for some perspective here. You have this anger three years later but how is your ex-doing? Remorseful or living high on hog?


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

stillfightingforus said:


> Just for some perspective here. You have this anger three years later but how is your ex-doing? Remorseful or living high on hog?


No idea. We haven't spoken since the divorce. My kids don't discuss her or her life with me. Anything I may think is just pure speculation. I have to admit though about two years ago, she tried to make arrangements to talk to me before my son's wedding to "clear the air". I basically agreed to her terms, then she backed out saying she was working two jobs to make ends meet and couldn't get a day off from a waitress job she had. I figured it was her typical ploy to make herself look good (she tried but I was disagreeable) but I did take some satisfaction knowing she had to work two jobs.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I don't know what my WW is going to get in the divorce at worst I would expect half the 401k and half the house equity after all the debt is paid. I'm more concerned about the custody and getting as much time with the kids as possible, I can replace a WW but I can't replace my kids who have been a constant positive in my life since they were born. Time will tell how this will all shake out, but I want better for my kids and for her than the road we are going down.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Check out dadsdivorce.com

Make sure you have a fire breathing lawyer or you can just go ahead and bend over.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

mggarske said:


> I don't know what my WW is going to get in the divorce at worst I would expect half the 401k and half the house equity after all the debt is paid. I'm more concerned about the custody and getting as much time with the kids as possible, I can replace a WW but I can't replace my kids who have been a constant positive in my life since they were born. Time will tell how this will all shake out, but I want better for my kids and for her than the road we are going down.


A lot states allow/encourage 50/50 or v60/40 providing no factors which would disqualify that. you need to accept you will see them less than you do today and you will miss out on things but.......... the time you do get to spend with them is your time and your time alone, you make all the decisions and your attention is solely focuses on them and theirs on you so it balances out and also gives you time to yourself to rediscover who you are as a single man and no longer married. 

No one is criticizing you,we all made mistakes and trying to help you not make the same ones so you can get past this in as good a way as possible and come out on top, so you can look back in 12 months and think wow I am so glad i can see clearly and didn't do XYZ. 

All these situations read like a script and your situation is not unique its the same theme in all situations like yours. A smart person learns from their mistakes and an even smart person learns from other people mistakes. The advice on this forum is solid I followed maybe 50% of it since i like you thought I knew better and my XW was different, our relationship better and people didn't understand, if I had done everything as advised i would have saved maybe 6-7 months of depression, money, time and a lot of self respect. 

We all care because we have been there and know how bad you feel and want to guide you past this and make sure you end up well.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

mggarske said:


> Last night she left early to go to run and go to the "gym" again before work which was always her alibi for when she cheated on me before I found out. When she left she sought me out to kiss me on the forehead before she left. I didn't care I let it go, this morning when she got home from work she tried to act like she was interested in me. But then I saw on her phone her background is a picture of her with the OM. That was enough to tell me I'm still doing the right thing meeting with a lawyer today. I'm not going to lie up until a couple weeks ago I would have taken her back in a heart beat with no hesitation. But I'm now to a point where I'm asking myself why am I doing this, why am I going out of my way for someone that say's thanks and I appreciate it but still does this ****. I'm still scared of what will happen once I get the lawyer, whether it be backlash from her (which I fully expect) or her trying to come back (which at this point I don't know if I would take her back right away anymore). I'm scared of the backlash because she is the only one I have a hard time being mean to because she's my wife, she's not a stranger or a friend, I don't know with her it's just different and it's easier to fold. But I'm more scared about her trying to come back, this is something I'm starting to realize as I get closer to getting the lawyer because I wanted her to come back so bad before, I'm scared she may convince me to do it and have to go through this all over again down the road. If things continue and I do get the divorce it's definitely going to be easier to say no than it is now as I'm learning the further we get into this the more I'm detaching. Thanks for the support everyone, keep it coming.


Love yourself enough to refuse to accept the unacceptable.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Taxman said:


> This needs to be a total blindside. In court, when she least expects it, you start producing evidence of drug use, then you double down and introduce evidence of her AP's criminality. Then the normal asset division should take place, but after the court gets a load of what she is doing, you can expect that she will walk out of that building with significantly less than when she entered.
> 
> At that point, you should get a RO on her AP. You do not want a felon around your children. That ties a can to your STBXWW's tail. In my experience, when this happens, I get that horrified call. Suddenly, they have lost a place to live, a spouse, children, lifestyle and friends. They have replaced all of that with a used up AP, with questionable background and morals. The degree to which they have fallen becomes horribly apparent. I usually counsel clients to seek out IC, to deal with the coming onslaught. It is usually divided 50/50. Half the reactions are anger: How could you do this to me? The other half start the begging to reconcile. Seems that once the gavel comes down, suddenly there is clarity in affairland: Half think that they can screw around, and keep everything the way it was. The other half think they can just say, "Forgive me, please" and make it all better.


Doesn't her counsel need to be provided the evidence for all accusations prior to litigation?


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

For your own sake please listen to the advice given here. Especially so from Tax Man who appears to be a Divorce Lawyer. You need to bunker down and go nuclear on her arse. Do this through legal channels. Not through open aggression at home. 

Show her no remorse or weakness for your actions. Cheaters only respect one thing. Strong men and actions. 

When i had proof that my wife was involved with someone she had denied communicating with i was quick to lay down consequences. At the time i was living away from the marital home as we were going through a rough patch and i was unaware of what was going on, and before my days on this forum.

Whilst away from home i continued to pay the house living expenses all the bills etc. When i found out by accident the real reason of our marital troubles, i immediately called all the utility companies, and cut off Electricity, Water, Phone Line, Pay TV, and withdrew all the money from the joint account. I picked up the kids from school early and took them home with me. 

In short my wife finished work for the day went to pick up the kids they were not at school, she blew up my phone, which i ignored, then late at night she got home to no electricity, water, tv, etc. When i did eventually answer the phone, i informed her that i knew the truth and that i was not returning the kids until the dispute was settled in court, and that i would only be communicating with her through my lawyers. I can honestly say that was enough to snap her back into reality. I suggest you do the same.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

mggarske said:


> Last night she left early to go to run and go to the "gym" again before work which was always her alibi for when she cheated on me before I found out. When she left she sought me out to kiss me on the forehead before she left. I didn't care I let it go, this morning when she got home from work she tried to act like she was interested in me. But then I saw on her phone her background is a picture of her with the OM. That was enough to tell me I'm still doing the right thing meeting with a lawyer today. I'm not going to lie up until a couple weeks ago I would have taken her back in a heart beat with no hesitation. But I'm now to a point where I'm asking myself why am I doing this, why am I going out of my way for someone that say's thanks and I appreciate it but still does this ****. I'm still scared of what will happen once I get the lawyer, whether it be backlash from her (which I fully expect) or her trying to come back (which at this point I don't know if I would take her back right away anymore). I'm scared of the backlash because she is the only one I have a hard time being mean to because she's my wife, she's not a stranger or a friend, I don't know with her it's just different and it's easier to fold. But I'm more scared about her trying to come back, this is something I'm starting to realize as I get closer to getting the lawyer because I wanted her to come back so bad before, I'm scared she may convince me to do it and have to go through this all over again down the road. If things continue and I do get the divorce it's definitely going to be easier to say no than it is now as I'm learning the further we get into this the more I'm detaching. Thanks for the support everyone, keep it coming.


Next time she tries to kiss you just think about where those lips have been. Perfectly acceptable to tell her please don't touch me, I know where those lips have been. 

When you are scared of divorcing her think about where those lips have been. 

When you consider reconciling with her just think about where those lips have been. 

File for divorce and fight like hell for your rights. If that does not knock her out of the affair nothing else will. 

The big positive on that is you will learn to never have to think again about where those lips have been.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

mggarske said:


> I'm assuming when you say "expect her actions to ratchet up to meet my own" you mean that she is going to get a lawyer and fight pretty much everything I'm trying to do and make me her enemy?
> 
> My goals right now are to keep the OM from my kids and get her to start paying half the bills for the house or leave. Those two things are going to be the things that piss her off the most in the short term, but honestly what does she expect to happen (live with me for free, free food, free everything while she does this ****). Right now she literally pays nothing, I've gotten $200 from her the last two months, she didn't buy any of the xmas presents or bday presents for our daughters birthday a couple weeks ago. After that it's the custody battle, and I'm expecting the "how could you do this to me" line to be hammered on me the whole way.


Cut off all her finances. Today. She contributes nothing she gets nothing.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

mggarske said:


> I don't know what my WW is going to get in the divorce at worst I would expect half the 401k and half the house equity after all the debt is paid. I'm more concerned about the custody and getting as much time with the kids as possible, I can replace a WW but I can't replace my kids who have been a constant positive in my life since they were born. Time will tell how this will all shake out, but I want better for my kids and for her than the road we are going down.


Listen to TaxMan, Don't assume the worst based on your limited knowledge of what actual happens in divorces today.

You need to see the 5 best divorce layers in your area for a free consultation, Once you see them generally cannot as a conflict arises. Pick one and follow their instructions to the letter. You want an aggressive attorney. I suggest a female one who is disgusted with your wife's behavior.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Just to give an update I lawyered up last night. From my discussion with him he also agreed that 50/50 custody is a slam dunk but with the existing circumstances he sees a 60% chance of it going 60/40 or 70/30 in my favor. He does not feel the court will give her primary custody based on her behavior, financial status, and inability to support the children on her own. She left early to go to the "gym" for the third night in a row last night, she left at 6:45 pm, the gym closes at 10 pm, and she starts work at 11 pm, needless to say none of it adds up to her doing what she says she's doing and my lawyer was kind of appalled that she does this so often. My WW has been making an effort that last few days to blatantly do more with the kids which has been really really strange but I'm doing my best to ignore it because that kind of stuff is hard to measure and doesn't make up for all her time away. To my knowledge my WW does not have a lawyer, that's what I was told by her and I have not been informed by the court that anyone is representing her. Needless to say last night when I came home late she was very concerned about where I was and if I was ok, but that was it, no affection, no flirting last night, so watching her sit on her phone the whole time I was there and then leave for the gym was rather easy. She posted a snapchat story last night insinuating love for someone I'm assuming the OM so she's just fueling the fire at this point. I did feel a lot of guilt and stress from this step but last night when I got home I went straight to doing homework with the kids, talking to them, playing with them, and my normal routine. They really are the best thing in my life right now and have helped me immensely as I worked through the stages of grief. There are a lot of things that I missed from my relationship with her when this started, and even more when she moved out of the bedroom but those things have subsided. I'm also beginning to trust that I will be ok again financially once things start to settle. However I still have relapses and struggle keeping the 180 going where I want to contact her or be that aggressive guy that takes back his wife from the OM so I just hope what I'm doing with the 180, the divorce, and moving on is the right thing. I just feel like with the 180 and walking away that I gave up, and I'm the quitter when in fact I'm just reacting to her actions. I know there are millions of women out there that will love me the way I deserve and there is life after divorce but I can't help but feel a natural hope that my wife starts to love me that way again. I will show her no weakness, I will continue doing what I'm doing (hell her actions are making it pretty easy and clear especially when she's cold), and I'll keep turning to this community for support and guidance as this progresses. Thanks for the support everyone.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I was talking with another member of this board the other day and one thing that I haven't found with all my research is anything where people talk about a "fog" for the betrayed spouse. The discussion on this board is the closest thing I've seen. The fog I'm referring to is similar to their "affair fog" but for the betrayed spouse it basically makes them ignore or discount the actions of the wayward spouse and finds a way to either forgive or forget about their actions quickly. I personally have had **** happen weekly sometimes daily where I know my WW is with the OM but have found that I either forget about it, ignore, or act like it happened eons ago in order to keep hope alive and keep trying to win the pick me dance. I just thought it was interesting and worth sharing, if anyone has any resources on this that they want to share I would appreciate it, if not I definitely think someone should write about it if they have the means as it would have helped me significantly if I found it early on. Everything I found was that cheating doesn't have to mean the end of your relationship, how to reconcile (they all assumed the wayward spouse wanted to and only gave instructions from that point), and everything just kind of fed the hope monster. When I'm on this board and you all paint her to be a monster or me to be weak and you exaggerate, it makes me think a little harder and helps fight the fog as I'm not weak I feel like a really strong stand up dude and wont take **** from anyone when it comes to day to day life so naturally I want to stand up for myself and prove you wrong. I don't know I'm just rambling but I thought it was interesting and is a real thing that generally isn't talked about in the mainstream google searches.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The betrayed spouse fog used to be discussed here very often. Basically it just boils down to denial. Simply refusing to accept what the waywards actions are telling them. Hoping against hope that their family can be saved. Eventually something snaps and the tiger is unleashed. Then shortly after we hear things like “well, you guys were right!” Then later we see “I have met the most wonderful woman/man and can’t believe I put up with so much!”


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Well your not going to hear me tell you that you guys were wrong, my WW is following some of the material I have read to a tee with respect to doing all of this because that's what makes her happy, or she feels justified because in her mind she already left the marriage, and that feelings are driving her decisions and not morals or logic. About the only thing that I can think of where I'm not sure will happen is that one day she will be begging for me back, that is one thing I'm beginning to doubt will happen. If it does happen it will be the biggest test I'm going to face in doing the 180 and moving on. I'm also struggling to see her as a "broken" person but other than that everything I've been told here makes sense.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

mggarske said:


> Well your not going to hear me tell you that you guys were wrong, my WW is following some of the material I have read to a tee with respect to doing all of this because that's what makes her happy, or she feels justified because in her mind she already left the marriage, and that feelings are driving her decisions and not morals or logic. About the only thing that I can think of where I'm not sure will happen is that one day she will be begging for me back, that is one thing I'm beginning to doubt will happen. If it does happen it will be the biggest test I'm going to face in doing the 180 and moving on. I'm also struggling to see her as a "broken" person but other than that everything I've been told here makes sense.


Best advise is to aggressively and methodically move on and past the divorce, never hope she will come begging back and you dont want her to, best action I took was to go dark, cut her out my life, she is not your ally she is your enemy. Once you stop seeing and communicating with her you will feel so much better, you wont believe me but its the truth.

Do not provide her anything at all physically, emotionally or financially this is your future and you need to take it back under control, she might be in enough of a fog for you to push this fast and get a much better settlement all around. Show her you do not want or need her, you are doing what I did and allowing her to take advantage of you, allowing her to think she has options, I took control and pushed for divorce, did not talk to her and told her i was done and she pushed to go MC, I agreed and gave her back control again and left my self depressed and broken, i wish I had been stronger and kept control, showed her I would not be a back up plan or an option and she was lucky to have me and I would have left the marriage in a better place and not a broken depressed shell of who I once was.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Movingforward, was your WW still deep in her affair when you took control and pushed for divorce or was it already over?


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

You mentioned that your wife has always attacked you in an argument, whether she was wrong or right. This is an extremely unattractive quality. You always put up with this. I have read a lot here, but also I have paid attention with people I know well and also with people I'm acquainted with. I've seen that they seem to have a "blind spot" on people they love, usually their children, but sometimes a spouse. I wonder if that is the case with you and your wife. 

You mentioned your wife initially didn't want to break up the family. That doesn't necessarily mean she wanted you. It could have been fracturing the stability and status quo of the kids and extended relationships.

From what you've posted, it seems your wife has checked off every box on the checklist for cheating wives - lying, hiding, gaslighting, denying, trickle truth, rewriting history, ILYBINILWY, fence-sitting, limbo-ing, boomerang in, Plan B-ing cake-eating, compartmentalizing, rationalizing, believing her own lies. I'm impressed. Do you think she is a rookie cheater? She has veteran skills. 

I don't think you're methods and tactics have been smart or effective. I think the tone and attitude is that if she gives even a semi sincere apology, you drop the divorce and give it a shot. Which is fine. 

As much as I can see you have a blind spot with your wife, also I can see you are mentally strong and you are secure in yourself. You will be OK no matter what.

I think this is a process. For some, day one is enough to move on. Others take a lot longer. The latter, usually that is because they are desperate and weak. I your case, I think it is because you are strong and can take it. When you've had enough, you'll move on. But you're not there yet.

Your wife said it only was physical, she said she doesn't see a future with him, but she ignores her kids, abandons her friends and family, her reputation, for a boy-toy with no future? I suggest watching her actions instead of her words. She is "in love" with this guy. Her world revolves around him. When it's going well with him, she will be upbeat and treat you better. When it's not going well with him, she will take it out on you and your kids and the world around her.

It's curious. She left you emotionally and physically before the affair even started she claims, but never told you about it or do anything about it. Even now, she does nothing to move forward to her future goals and dreams. Why is that do you think?


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Personally I think she is milking her ride with me as long as she possibly can because she's afraid she can't make it on her own. I think she knows she screwed up and can't stop and feels the right thing to do is to leave and that's why she hasn't shown any remorse what so ever. That's my two cents anyways. Me filing for divorce hit her hard or at least that was the face she put on because it wasn't on her terms, she wasn't ready, she wasn't prepared enough, because it would make her leaving harder on her.

I know she is "in love" with this guy or thinks she is even though she wont admit it to me and that she's not "in love with me" because she's said it and shown it, whether she's putting on an act or not she still shows flashes of love for me but that's all they are is flashes and it's been a week or two since I've seen or felt it. This is what helped me throw in the towel, give up trying, sign up for this board, and commit to the lawyer.

I would definitely agree with you about my blind spot for her, I don't know why it's there but it's there, I sure as hell wouldn't be telling someone else in my shoes to do what I have done, I'd tell them to drop her and move on because it's not worth it. But for some reason its different when it's your own wife and life on the line. There is a chance she's cheated on me in the past as we had two rough patches before, one before each of our first two kids, but we went 5 years without any issues so I figured that was growing pains of settling down young and honestly forgot about it until all of this happened. She was 19 when we met and 21 when we first started having kids so she's kind of reliving the college days right now. If she does turn around and give me a weak apology or whatever she does, it'll definitely make me think but I honestly don't know what I'd do at this point, a few weeks ago yeah no doubt I'd take it and drop the D, or at least put the D on hold. But now it'd make me think and I'd definitely need to seek out professional help in order to figure out if it was sincere or not and figure out what to do. With how thick this fog is, and her actions of being gone all the time, and still lying and sneaking around to see him, I don't see her trying to come back until long after the divorce is final or if the divorce doesn't go the way she thought it would and at both of those points it may be too late for her. Her best time to act if she were to want a "rug sweep" is getting closer and closer to being over.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

mggarske said:


> Personally I think she is milking her ride with me as long as she possibly can because she's afraid she can't make it on her own. I think she knows she screwed up and can't stop and feels the right thing to do is to leave and that's why she hasn't shown any remorse what so ever. That's my two cents anyways. Me filing for divorce hit her hard or at least that was the face she put on because it wasn't on her terms, she wasn't ready, she wasn't prepared enough, because it would make her leaving harder on her.
> 
> I know she is "in love" with this guy or thinks she is even though she wont admit it to me and that she's not "in love with me" because she's said it and shown it, whether she's putting on an act or not she still shows flashes of love for me but that's all they are is flashes and it's been a week or two since I've seen or felt it. This is what helped me throw in the towel, give up trying, sign up for this board, and commit to the lawyer.
> 
> I would definitely agree with you about my blind spot for her, I don't know why it's there but it's there, I sure as hell wouldn't be telling someone else in my shoes to do what I have done, I'd tell them to drop her and move on because it's not worth it. But for some reason its different when it's your own wife and life on the line. There is a chance she's cheated on me in the past as we had two rough patches before, one before each of our first two kids, but we went 5 years without any issues so I figured that was growing pains of settling down young and honestly forgot about it until all of this happened. She was 19 when we met and 21 when we first started having kids so she's kind of reliving the college days right now. If she does turn around and give me a weak apology or whatever she does, it'll definitely make me think but I honestly don't know what I'd do at this point, a few weeks ago yeah no doubt I'd take it and drop the D, or at least put the D on hold. But now it'd make me think and I'd definitely need to seek out professional help in order to figure out if it was sincere or not and figure out what to do. With how thick this fog is, and her actions of being gone all the time, and still lying and sneaking around to see him, I don't see her trying to come back until long after the divorce is final or if the divorce doesn't go the way she thought it would and at both of those points it may be too late for her. Her best time to act if she were to want a "rug sweep" is getting closer and closer to being over.


mggarske, actors, good and bad ones show 'flashes' of love on queue. Don't be fooled, not that hard to do. Even hookers do it. The sum of her actions tell you all you need to know, not her words, nor her pathetic gestures to keep you on the hook.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

As you read oust in this thread and other threads in the infidelity forum you will see people expressing a lot of regret.

Those regrets are always associated with them not standing up for themselves and for trying to placate and appease their WS out if fear that the WS will leave for good, or out of hope that if they are "nice" and acquiesce to the WS that they will somehow stay.

I challenge you to read many threads.

What you will never see is someone expressing regret that they stood up for themselves and drew a hard line against being chumped and manipulated and pushed around. - Not a one. 

Even in the many cases where the WS did not come back, people did not regret standing up for themselves and pursuing their best interests.

They may have been sad that the relationship ended and they may have had anger towards their X for cheating and being crappy, but they did not regret standing up for themselves and slept at night without regrets.

Also, do not confuse standing up for yourself and enforcing your personal boundaries and not allowing yourself to used with cruelty or mistreatment of your STBX.

Remember SHE is the one that cheated and the one that blew up your home and marriage. You are not the bad guy for not accepting unacceptable behavior.

Standing up for yourself and maintaining your own best interests is not being an arse or vindictive and she cannot claim malfeasance on your part for not putting up with her crap.

Velcro those balls back on and stand up for yourself and your children. She is the one that making her own bed of nails.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mggarske said:


> If she does turn around and give me a *weak* apology or *whatever* she does, it'll definitely make me think.


You don't set the bar very high do you?

Friend, all you should be thinking about right now is finishing the D. 

I compare your situation to buying a lottery ticket. You don't quit your job in anticipation that you'll win the lottery; and you don't stop heading for D for the remote chance that she'll turn completely around.

But in the unlikely event you think she has, please post back for more advice. It takes more than a weak apology to demonstrate remorse.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Double post.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I do hope you stay strong.

I sometimes post on threads like this. Sometimes I harangue the Original Poster to try to goad them into staying strong. Occasionally I might cajole without being mean.

I have read about this denial and fog thing you wrote about, but I don't understand it.

When my wife had a one day stand in 1978 she confessed right away and begged me to forgive her. I was surprised, and angry. Then I realized she lied to me, and I was even more angry. I never experienced this fog. Rage, yes. I don't know if I am fundamentally different than other people. My wife has suggested I am.

There do seem to be two directions men go from discovering their wife had an affair. Either they become enraged and their wives are lucky to survive, or they feel as you have. I wonder if it is actually two ways, or a continuum and I only notice because I have experience one extreme and here read about the other.

What would be most interesting would be to learn if there is some way to capture a bit of one end of the continuum and use it to bolster the other end of the continuum.

I exacted a far heavier toll on my wife than any person should have to pay for 15 months for her one day stand when she begged me to forgive her the very first instant she saw me after it happened. Two years after my wife had her one day stand I had a revenge affair which I told her was directly to avenge myself for her affair. Every day since her mistake my wife has done everything within her limited scope to prove she is sorry, and to prove she does love me.

You rewarded your wife after you discovered her affair, and you have tolerated completely disgusting disrespect from her.

I keep wondering what makes us so different. 

I don't know how to reach through the screen to help men who suffer this fog. I never felt it. I can't begin to understand it. 

I have no trouble loving my wife, and being furious with her and treating her horribly because of her mistake and her lies. I did overreact. I did treat her much worse than I should have. 

If only I could impart some of that strength of will to others, and change my own past.

Be strong. I don't understand how you can fail to be enraged still since the very first day you discovered your wife was having an affair. Everything she has done since should have escalated your anger. Your will should be like the strongest steel. There should never be the slightest waver. Never should you be tempted to think she is worth a moment of your time or concern.

Let her crawl to you on her hands and knees and beg and cry. Then laugh at her and push her out the door. That is how you should treat her.

Be well.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

mggarske said:


> Personally I think she is milking her ride with me as long as she possibly can because she's afraid she can't make it on her own. I think she knows she screwed up and can't stop and feels the right thing to do is to leave and that's why she hasn't shown any remorse what so ever. That's my two cents anyways. Me filing for divorce hit her hard or at least that was the face she put on because it wasn't on her terms, she wasn't ready, she wasn't prepared enough, because it would make her leaving harder on her.
> 
> I know she is "in love" with this guy or thinks she is even though she wont admit it to me and that she's not "in love with me" because she's said it and shown it, whether she's putting on an act or not she still shows flashes of love for me but that's all they are is flashes and it's been a week or two since I've seen or felt it. This is what helped me throw in the towel, give up trying, sign up for this board, and commit to the lawyer.
> 
> I would definitely agree with you about my blind spot for her, I don't know why it's there but it's there, I sure as hell wouldn't be telling someone else in my shoes to do what I have done, I'd tell them to drop her and move on because it's not worth it. But for some reason its different when it's your own wife and life on the line. There is a chance she's cheated on me in the past as we had two rough patches before, one before each of our first two kids, but we went 5 years without any issues so I figured that was growing pains of settling down young and honestly forgot about it until all of this happened. She was 19 when we met and 21 when we first started having kids so she's kind of reliving the college days right now. If she does turn around and give me a weak apology or whatever she does, it'll definitely make me think but I honestly don't know what I'd do at this point, a few weeks ago yeah no doubt I'd take it and drop the D, or at least put the D on hold. But now it'd make me think and I'd definitely need to seek out professional help in order to figure out if it was sincere or not and figure out what to do. With how thick this fog is, and her actions of being gone all the time, and still lying and sneaking around to see him, I don't see her trying to come back until long after the divorce is final or if the divorce doesn't go the way she thought it would and at both of those points it may be too late for her. Her best time to act if she were to want a "rug sweep" is getting closer and closer to being over.


Your fixated on whether she may or may not try to come back. She most likely won't and in general terms by the time any of them do try the situation has gone on too long and they have dug the hole too deep to climb out of. Are you more afraid of her trying to come back or that she won't? 

She doesn't believe she screwed up and she feels perfectly justified in her actions right now, don't kid yourself. She knows in her head that a weak apology and some signs of remorse would get you to cave. She's choosing not to, at best your a distant plan b in her head.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

honcho said:


> Your fixated on whether she may or may not try to come back. She most likely won't and in general terms by the time any of them do try the situation has gone on too long and they have dug the hole too deep to climb out of. Are you more afraid of her trying to come back or that she won't?
> 
> She doesn't believe she screwed up and she feels perfectly justified in her actions right now, don't kid yourself. She knows in her head that a weak apology and some signs of remorse would get you to cave. She's choosing not to, at best your a distant plan b in her head.


From my read the OP is afraid she won't come back.

I see you, @mggarske, still hoping you are her plan B, and in fact willing to take her back if she gave you a weak apology and offered to come back without any remorse on her part. 

I do wish you well, but I personally can't see any hope for reconciliation, nor any reason you should hope for it. However, marriage is sacred. But if she were to apologize, you should crush her with demands and require she survive a gauntlet of proof for years. I fear you are wrapped around her finger.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

mggarske said:


> I would definitely agree with you about my blind spot for her, I don't know why it's there but it's there, I sure as hell wouldn't be telling someone else in my shoes to do what I have done, I'd tell them to drop her and move on because it's not worth it. But for some reason its different when it's your own wife and life on the line. * T**here is a chance she's cheated on me in the past as we had two rough patches before, one before each of our first two kids, *but we went 5 years without any issues so I figured that was growing pains of settling down young and honestly forgot about it until all of this happened.


I gotta say it... DNA your kids.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Just for your own info, google - how to pick up married women. You are missing the reason she did this. It is purely human nature. Tough men at work and life turn into wimps when it comes to their wives. 

Your wife lost respect for you. She cheated and you totally surrendered hoping to nice her back. In her mind you became a cuckhold at that point. She is now baking her new man while you watch. If you don’t stand up soon just work on yourself for your next wife./


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I'm still moving forward with the divorce, I really don't know what else I can do to stand up for myself than to make sure that happens and fight for as much custody with my kids as I can get. I don't respond to her texts or videos on snapchat I pretty much ignore everything. I need to stop letting her go out every night to the "gym" or "dinner with friends" but in my eyes I'm letting her hang herself. So it's a catch 22, either let her help me make my case or fight her behavior and hurt that. Last night 4th night in a row she left before 7 to go to the gym that closes at 10 and went to work at 11 from there, none of it adds up to going to the gym and being a good girl, further she said she wasn't coming home when work was over at 6am and was going straight to school which starts at 9 am so she could "study" again it doesn't add up. So she's going to go about 24 hours without seeing the kids. She didn't even play supermom last night before she left. This morning while she's at school she decided to talk about our divorce case and asked me to type up a list of my "wants" so we can discuss them. Needless to say I was pissed at her last night and this morning I was shaking my head. Yes I am afraid she wont come back because a part of me wants her to but I can promise you I'm moving forward I've already made the commitment and am putting my case together, if I'm going to get divorced this is my opportunity to get the best settlement possible and I'm not going to screw that up if this divorce is indeed inevitable. She has given me no reason to think that she's coming back because she wants to, at least at this point she hasn't. I'll let you know if anything happens over the weekend but I'm going to work with my lawyer today and tomorrow to get ready for this.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

On my phone I won’t search and quote. What I see is in your posts you worry constantly about what she is doing.

You can’t control her. You can’t change her. What she does is irrelevant.

Her actions have bearing on child custody. You and the attorney will deal with that.

So why is nearly every post of yours a huge wall of text about what she does? You wax philosophical about why she does what she does. You worry and fret about which hours she is where. She is just a ***** who happens to be a roommate for a short time.

Stop thinking about her.

Why should you care how she feels if you do this or that? Stop that. Her feelings do not matter.

Do you go on and on about how some coworker might feel if you take some specific action? No, of course not. So why do you keep worrying about how that woman who you are dumping thinks about anything? Her opinion is completely irrelevant.

Please note, I have NOT gone through what you are going through.

I did reconcile with my wife. But even during reconciliation my major concern was making sure my wife was not happy. I was very cruel to her.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP, I am well and truly bewildered!!!!

I cannot understand or believe your response to some of her statements and actions!!

"Its purely physical and there is no emotional attachment, so you don't have to worry" or something like that, has got to be the most unique!!! That is the sort of statement a cheating wife makes just before a possible murder takes place for normal men.

Your wife is ****ing a drug addicted, drug-dealing felon! Who is encouraging her to become one too. She regularly makes you feed and clothe her, so that she can go **** this guy. She has neglected your children. She wants to discuss what she gets out of the divorce when it happens. What part of DESPICABLE do you not see or understand in her.

You should be raining all kinds of hell on her and the POSOM right now. Get a PI and get him locked up. Get her arrested too if possible for possession. Make sure you get full custody that way.

The fact that you are even thinking of being with her if she is remorseful is unbelievable. That should be the very last thought on your mind. Even if she is remorseful which she is a million miles away from!!!!


What is the matter with you? I just cannot believe some of your commentary. She should be thrown out of your house for possession that "pipe"! Your finances should be split and your attorney should be well on the way to recovering money from her. And the POSOM should be back in jail where he belongs. 

She would make my skin crawl so much so that I would feel too icky to even shake hands with her - she is filthy and I hope your kids don't catch anything from her!

You really need to wake, grow a pair and get protecting your children and yourself!


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mg

Please forgive me if nothing I say here makes an ounce of sense, I’m battling influenza A and have a fever of 104. The title of your thread is letting go, please let your wife go. Don’t talk, don’t wait for affection, just let that woman go live in a miserable existence. Next give all documentation regarding drugs to your lawyer. Next have your lawyer draw up that your wife vacate the house as she is providing an unsafe environment. Drugs are heavily viewed as very unsafe, you want drugs to be kept from your children. Also have your lawyer drop this little nugget in, if your wife is to see the kids she must submit to a hair sample drug test. You also request that her visits be with a court appointed supervisor. 

Ultimately, you want full custody, you want your wife to submit to three consecutive hair sample tests that shows she is clean. If any test comes back positive for drugs she must complete a court appointed drug program. Sorry I can’t type more, I’m hoping someone will come here to explain more about how drugs will get you full custody. God bless


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## dreamer2017 (Nov 7, 2017)

I totally agree with MANFROMLAMANCH!!!


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

manfromlamancha said:


> OP, I am well and truly bewildered!!!!
> 
> I cannot understand or believe your response to some of her statements and actions!!
> 
> ...


Would it benefit him to do this at this point though? I'm thinking since she is totally distracted right now he can get what he wants and needs in court and just let her fry herself. Get what he needs, get the divorce finalized and then go to town on whatever he wants with both losers?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Here is where I am going to go down a path that I have not as yet seen here. In the movie "Speed" there is the theory that taking the third person out of the equation simplified matters. I have now seen that it works. I have had one client in the summer go behind his WW's back, and confront the AP. It turned out that the AP sold a bill of goods to the WW and was not separated. When threatened, her sent a blistering NC letter to the WW. Rainbow unicornland caught fire and burned to the ground in outside of ten minutes. She lost her job as well, the very next day when she kicked AP in the nuts in full view of her office, and continued to kick until she was dragged off him and taken to HR. (She was not charged with assault, but did lose her job).

This morning I received a call from another client; she tracked down the OW. She said that she had not as yet confronted her husband, however, her detective work paid off. She took the OW out for coffee. She did not make any scene, or raise her voice for that matter. She simply said that her and her husband have a family, and this cannot happen. She made a quiet case that all of this is not right, that the OW should realize that she is wrecking a family and that the karma of her actions will one day negatively impact her. The OW sent a text, ending the affair. My client will be confronting her husband this weekend. I have given her a toolbox of things to say, do and read (mostly courtesy of this site, and a few items from SI). She does not want to separate or divorce, but he will have a lot of heavy lifting to do. These were tax clients up til this morning, now they are on my matrimonial list. I do not think the idiot knows what is coming his way. 

I thank god, I do not have to go through an emotionally tumultuous weekend like that. (Actually planning a home honeymoon weekend-we have private clients to see on Saturday morning, always a pain in the ass, they are long-standing and can hardly afford to pay the bill, but we do this because nobody else will take care of them, then I am going to pick up her favorite lunch, pour us a couple of cocktails, roll us a joint or two, kick back and enjoy each other for the rest of the day-this empty nest business? I'm LIKING IT.)


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

stillfightingforus said:


> Would it benefit him to do this at this point though? I'm thinking since she is totally distracted right now he can get what he wants and needs in court and just let her fry herself. Get what he needs, get the divorce finalized and then go to town on whatever he wants with both losers?


That is all very well and I agree. But OP was considering R and still hoping for R at one point.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

manfromlamancha said:


> That is all very well and I agree. But OP was considering R and still hoping for R at one point.


Also, please don't take that as questioning your advice, I'm the last person in the world that needs to do that but just wanted clarification for him. That's the one regret I have in terms of making it easier on myself and the kids if I would have just went through with D instead of so much R and working on breaking up the affair, I could have skated on by I think. Especially when my wife at several points just wanted to leave/run away. Now that it's harder or very difficult to even attempt to reach OM because of OMW, she has a lot more attention to give to kids and the upcoming case.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP stop listening to that part of you that still wants her to come back - she isn't. In fact she is ramping it up right under your nose. Stop entertaining any idea of R and start planning solely for D or just allow yourself to become her hand servant for the rest of your life. Your choice.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

The trouble is he can’t get anything until he gets over his own infatuation with his wife.

We see she is just a drug using high priced call girl. He is still wrapped up in some dream. He is still hoping for reconciliation. 

OP, would you worry about how a babysitter might react if you discovered she was using drugs so you told her you were going to fire her?

If you had a babysitter who did not use drugs would you concern yourself about what time she goes where? She does her job or gets fired, outside work is her time.

For you to get what you should get from your divorce you have to harden your heart to that painted tramp you mistakenly married. Just because you got her pregnant doesn’t mean she is some princess being led astray.

In the event you do reconcile, which weirdly seems likely given how fixated on her you continue to be, you need to crush her under your boot heel and make her stay clean and sober and faithful and totally obedient to you. No option.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

mggarske said:


> Movingforward, was your WW still deep in her affair when you took control and pushed for divorce or was it already over?


She was in the affair. She was still choosing but she never officially admitted at the time,


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Just Let Them Go*

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Well to the delight of others on this thread I believe I can officially say I've entered the anger phase when it comes to the stages of grief. Forgive me for the timeline posts but when she left at 7pm Thursday, she didn't not only not come home before school, she didn't come home after school either, she didn't come home until 9:30 Saturday morning. Then hid in her room pretty much all day, I took the kids to the movies Saturday night and as soon as I got home she was ready to go out again, even said she would be home that night. LMAO wrong again, she didn't come home until 8:30 am Sunday and one of the first things she said was she was leaving for brunch with "friends" soon but wanted to spend the afternoon with the kids without me. At that point I blew it, I couldn't keep quiet anymore, we argued pretty bad in front of the kids. Needless to say she didn't come home from brunch until 3:30 and then left around 5 to go run and clear her head. So she skipped out on the whole day with the kids including dinner when she supposedly wanted to spend time with them. When she got back from her run she was disrespectful and I blew up again. I can't take it anymore, I apologized to the kids but I am still full of anger towards her. I don't see how I can R with her after the way she was all week last week and this weekend. It's too deep and too far gone right now, she even disowned her own mother this weekend. The D is happening whether she likes it or not, I just hope my outburst doesn't stop her from hanging herself further. I get the impression it just makes her want out of this marriage even more so we'll see. The things she said when we were arguing just added to the list of reasons why I can't stay married to her anymore.
@Bandit, I've read that article before and it's what led me to title this thread the way I did.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Yet you are still thinking about the possibility of a reconciliation. You are still looking for signs it is possible. STOP!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

mggarske said:


> <snip> I just hope my outburst doesn't stop her from hanging herself further. I get the impression it just makes her want out of this marriage even more so we'll see. The things she said when we were arguing just added to the list of reasons why I can't stay married to her anymore.
> 
> @Bandit, I've read that article before and it's what led me to title this thread the way I did.


We are on your side.

Statements like this show you are still having trouble letting her go.

You would not hope your outburst affected her that way if you were actually done with her.

You would have recognized long ago she wants out of this marriage so badly it is not possible for her to want out even more, if you were done with her.

You would not care about the list of reasons because it is done. You are done.

But you aren't. These hopes and concerns show you aren't over her.

You need to get a lot more angry, but never show it, never blow up. Just harden your heart against her. She is nothing, she is just a tramp who you need to get rid of.

Yes, you have to deal with her for the sake of the children, but no more than that. 

Just some scum you got pregnant.

Stop hoping!

Be well, somehow.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

mggarske said:


> Well to the delight of others on this thread I believe I can officially say I've entered the anger phase when it comes to the stages of grief. Forgive me for the timeline posts but when she left at 7pm Thursday, she didn't not only not come home before school, she didn't come home after school either, she didn't come home until 9:30 Saturday morning. Then hid in her room pretty much all day, I took the kids to the movies Saturday night and as soon as I got home she was ready to go out again, even said she would be home that night. LMAO wrong again, she didn't come home until 8:30 am Sunday and one of the first things she said was she was leaving for brunch with "friends" soon but wanted to spend the afternoon with the kids without me. At that point I blew it, I couldn't keep quiet anymore, we argued pretty bad in front of the kids. Needless to say she didn't come home from brunch until 3:30 and then left around 5 to go run and clear her head. So she skipped out on the whole day with the kids including dinner when she supposedly wanted to spend time with them. When she got back from her run she was disrespectful and I blew up again. I can't take it anymore, I apologized to the kids but I am still full of anger towards her. I don't see how I can R with her after the way she was all week last week and this weekend. It's too deep and too far gone right now, she even disowned her own mother this weekend. The D is happening whether she likes it or not, I just hope my outburst doesn't stop her from hanging herself further. I get the impression it just makes her want out of this marriage even more so we'll see. The things she said when we were arguing just added to the list of reasons why I can't stay married to her anymore.
> 
> @Bandit, I've read that article before and it's what led me to title this thread the way I did.


mggarske, your wife spends the night sleeping with another man repeatedly disrespecting you and your children.

Of course you are mad. That is human nature, 

Who cares if she 'hangs herself' ( I assume you mean everything but not in the literal sense).

Forget about R. For R she needs to have regret and remorse. She is nowhere near that. She will not have a epiphany just because you are mad. SHE DOES NOT CARE. 

The wife you knew no longer exists. She has been replaced by an alien who only cares about her herself, no one else at the expense of everyone. Keep this in mind going forward when dealing with her and it will serve you well, 

Your only option is to file for divorce asap. Blindside her like Taxman advised. 

You want her out if of the house so you keep the house and the kids intact in one home and she can pay you child support. File asap and encourage the demon to move out and go live with lover boy. Hopefully she is stupid enough to follow her alien heart and you will have her out of the house shacking up with a felon and the attorneys will take care of the rest.

If filing for divorce does not snap her out if it nothing will. At the moment she is a sinking ship, Step off that ship so you and your kids don't sink with her.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Filing for divorce is the only action an unrepentant cheater like your WW understands.

And make sure you are documenting her stay's away from home and her neglect of the children.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Bandit, I filed for divorce November 29th and that didn't snap her out of it. Indiana only has a 60 day waiting period which is up today so at this point I just have to battle it out in court and get it done.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

mggarske said:


> Bandit, I filed for divorce November 29th and that didn't snap her out of it. Indiana only has a 60 day waiting period which is up today so at this point I just have to battle it out in court and get it done.


My bad. 

Then keep on keeping on. Are you doing the 180?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

My bad too. Apologies. 

Ditto on the 180. Her behavior is abhorrent. Go nuclear with the divorce. Stay strong.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Wishing you the best of luck on your tough journey ahead. Stay Strong. Every time you feel weak keep remembering that every time she claims she is going to the gym, lunch, dinner, etc add bull...**** excuse here ____________________ she is really out banging the other man. 

I am convinced once you are out of her life and she has to face realities without you or the children she is in for a rude awakening.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have your attorney subpoena her and the Posom’s texts , emails and phone records. Also have him require hair drug tests for you wife immediately to keep her from drying out or taking the tests. I am certain Posom, a drug dealer, knows how to fake the tests.

Also ask your attorney about protection orders against them both for you and your children.

When you quit playing her patsy, things will immediately start getting better. She is more than likely doing a lot of drugs. He can’t be that much fun to be around.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Listen to Drifting On and Bandit, they have sage advice for you. take it to heart. I am trying to stay off this site on advice of MC, but your story 
Hit me hard and Makes my blood boil. I am going to go into " Parris Island mode" and repeat my Sgt. LH Bootcamp speech I gave to Still Fighting for Us and DDude. Imagine you are getting of the bus at the LH MCRD and are standing on the yellow footprints as I get you prepared to enter the inner sanctum of Sgt. LH Betrayed Husband Bootcamp. Visualize R Lee Ermy with veins popping out of his neck as you hear these words of encouragement shouted at you. Your response is YES Sgt LH!

1) You will improvise, adapt and OVERCOME. Understand!? You will prevail.

2) she is not your friend. She is your enemy! Understand this! Important!

3) You are at war sir, war for the well being of those wonderful little girls. Protect them! 

4) You have taken a hit. You will pick yourself up. Dust off, and fight back! Understand?

5) You will document document document her actions. Get evidence of drugs! 

6) You will focus on you. Get a new haircut, and a new wardrobe. Look sharp.

7) Hit the gym hard! You will becom a lean mean dating machine! Got it!

8) You will follow the 180 and detach. You will follow no more mr nic guy. Also, I highly recommend "Grow A Pair" by Larry Winget.

9) You will take legal action to remove her from your home and the presence of your children. They should not be exposed to a drug addicted ****.

10) You will follow the advice of the great Sun Tzu. " Baffle her with confusion, take her by surprise"! Never let her know where you are coming from. Act unpredictable as hell. Keep her off base. Instruct your legal counsel to go for the jugular. Scorched earth on her. She deserves your wrath.

11) You will keep your head up at all times. This is not your fault. It is all on her. Understand!

12) Positive thought creates positive results. Repeat to yourself "Hell yea I can do it!

13) if you feel weak, start over with order 1.

Please do not do any more pick me dance. Show strength and indifference to her. Get a baby sitter to watch your children and let her know you are going out. Ask her for your engagement ring back, and quit wearing your ring if you have not.

Lastly, you deserve better and seem from your posts a nice guy and dedicated dad. You will find someone much better than her.

PS: You will be fine. Stay the course. The best revenge is letting her go and you living well.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

mggarske said:


> @Bandit, I've read that article before and it's what led me to title this thread the way I did.


Well, you need to read it again, because you're still trying to reason with her. Stop it, it will not lead to the revelation you're hoping for.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

I know this is going to annoy some of you but since my last post Monday my anger has subsided. Every day this week she has continued her normal routine of leaving early to go to the gym before work and show me no attention or affection so it doesn't appear that my blow up phased her one bit. One thing that did develop is one night this week she mentioned she had a bad day, days, weekend ect and when I asked why she went on and on about her night job, and always being tired, ect but then she said that the only people she wants to be around is the kids and that it bothers her that I don't think she does enough with them. Basically putting the guilt trip on me to get me to tell her I think she's a good mom. Needless to say I didn't tell her that but it screwed up my 180 and I've been working all week to get back on track and not think about wanting to comfort her ect. I know she's gone and I've got my eye on my life without her but a true 180 is very difficult when you have to see her every day. Most of my actions aren't necessarily to persuade her to come back but to make sure I'm content with myself that I said whatever I needed to say or did whatever I needed to do. I'm not taking vacation time from work tomorrow to watch kids for her so that's a good thing and one of the things on my list that I know I needed to stop doing. I'm taking things one day at a time and my remorse for my blow up has faded, just wanted to give you an update, I meet with my lawyer tomorrow to start compiling evidence and putting my case together so don't think I'm pulling my foot off the gas. And if I haven't mentioned it yet, my court date for the divorce hearing is valentines day! How's that for irony.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Here's a better idea.

Punch that damn gas pedal through the floorboards. The sooner she is gone, the sooner you and the kids can start healing.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

One of my partners clients was involved with a married WW. One night a man comes to the door selling something or or other. Once inside the salesman identified himself as his girlfriend s husband. The husband proceeded to intimidate and threaten. There were no witnesses. At the end the WW got multiple messages ending the relationship. Apparently, as a final act he gave her D papers. My thoughts? Dude saw the “Godfather” once too often and squared all accounts at once


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

@Taxman as tempting as that sounds that low life doesn't deserve my attention!


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mggarske said:


> but a true 180 is very difficult when you have to see her every day.


That's when the 180 is *supposed* to be used; when you're around her. That's what it is designed for and that's when it's needed. The more contact with her you have to endure, the more important it is. If she wasn't around you wouldn't need it.

Read it again.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

That is only one reaction. Lately I have heard of two instances of the betrayed spouse confronting the AP before the wandering spouse. In both cases, the AP was successfully warned off. In both cases, however, it was a ploy to completely isolate the wayward spouse before lowering the boom (serving of divorce filing). The purpose of the method was punishment more than anything else. I talked to my partner about her client, and we did ask him to go elsewhere. He did not admit to physical violence, however, in my estimation, his methods were questionable. 

It is prudent to 180, even more prudent to serve divorce papers.


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## DadOfFour (Mar 13, 2013)

This sort of thing ****s me

< "Hates being stay at home Mom"

> Has 4 kids, under 7

PICK ONE FFS!


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## TiredHubby2791 (Aug 26, 2015)

Like other here have said, get on with your life and take care of you and your daughters. Your wife has checked out and the OM is not someone I would want to have around my kids. She is probably using or has been using for quite some time. The fact that she left you during a difficult time in your life speaks to her character. I'm not bashing on her, I don't know her like you do, but from what you put in your OP, she seems very selfish. 

So, take care of you first, then your girls, she will come in a distant last place in the scheme of things.


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## inging (Dec 11, 2016)

Hey man

I am a long, long way from where you are now 7 years since something very similar went down in my life.

It is extraordinarily painful. There is no way around that. Let that pain be part of you. 

She is gone as that person you loved but she will try to keep you engaged in her current relationship for as long as possible. Your pain is fuelling their sex life. Your pain is an aphrodisiac . Keep that in mind.

Call her names that begin with S*** and Wh***. Treat her with the same contempt she is treating you. She will shout and spit bile at you, cry, curl up in a ball and accuse you of always thinking of her only as an object.
This will repeat but the words you use will be joy to her ears 
You see this has to be your fault. Hasn't everything been your fault since you have known her?

Ask her to leave. I told her to "Fck off" Not my finest hour but it was cathartic
Then she will probably move out with indecent haste. 

This will not be the end. 
As she realises that she is losing you she will further lie and cheat to try and engage you in false reconciliation as you are essential to her new relationship. 
She will use your children as a weapon and hurt them as much as she hurts you.

Everything is a lie. She will continue with this for a long, long time.


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Well it's been a while since I posted an update. This ***** just keeps getting worse. She took the girls on a "girls day" to Victoria secret to but her self some sexy lingerie to wear for her bf's birthday. Stuff I always wanted her to wear but never got. She saw the kids for 1 hour on Super Bowl Sunday, because she came home from her night out in the middle of the afternoon and then left after she showered and changed, oh by the way that hour she told me she wanted to have sex (then made an excuse as to why she couldn't). Then this past weekend she saw the kids for 5 hours from Thursday night to Monday morning and that time was spent upstairs on her phone and not with the kids. Yesterday I was told by a woman that my STBEWW babysits for that she is planning on taking the kids and living with her bf without my knowledge or consent. You know the convicted felon, who tried to commit suicide twice since this started, who supplies my STBEWW with drugs, and sucks at life...yeah that guy. Then last night when I got home the kids were telling me mommy said they're going to live with a man and there's going to be a basement filled with toys and she's going to get a swing set for the backyard and it's going to be great. So she's playing with their minds as well. Come to find out this house is only a 2 bedroom and it's a ****ty school district (it's 20 miles from where we live now). I can't get this D over with fast enough. The worst part is I was supposed to go to court tomorrow but I just found out it was with a mediator and not a judge so I have to reschedule. Sorry I just had to vent but this is getting worse and worse every freaking week.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

You are documenting all of this , right?


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

Yes, my lawyer said I actually have so much stuff documented I'm not going to have enough time to get through it all in court.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

mggarske said:


> Yes, my lawyer said I actually have so much stuff documented I'm not going to have enough time to get through it all in court.




One more item of paperwork you need, a restraining order, put in that document that she is endangering the kids by being with a drug dealer. That she plans to take the kids to live with said drug dealer and name the woman that told you. Have your lawyer declare your house as the house of residence. Also go for supervised visitation.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I’m not comfortable with your lawyer letting her take the kids around him. You need a second opinion yesterday.

Did you check out dadsdivorce.com? 

Have you talked to his probation officer?


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## mggarske (Jan 22, 2018)

So I'd like to see what advice I can get from the board on something. This weekend was typical, she supposedly got called into work Friday night and didn't come home until late Saturday morning. Then she left to go to a birthday party on Saturday afternoon at 4pm and didn't come home until 4pm Sunday. Must have been one hell of a party, oh wait it was the loser bf's birthday. Anyways, Sunday while she was gone she contacted my daughter to video chat using snap chat. My daughter asked her where she was and when she told her she was at the OM's house, my daughter asked if she could see and talk to him. I said that it was not ok and stopped it. My STBEW said I'm the mother and I say it's fine, my response was I'm the father and I say it's not, so she said so you trump me. I don't know how I got out of it but I said no but this is not ok or something to that effect. My question is A) did I do the right thing and B) what should I say to my 7 year old as the reason why I didn't want her to do that so that she understands and I don't scare her.


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