# *UPDATE* Wife's Attraction To Me Is On And Off



## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

With the help of a few comments and thoughtful responses, I have determined that the issue I had wasn't an issue at all. I overreacted to an innocent situation because I have self esteem and trust issues, and I need to work on those things. I considered what happened from my point of view only, and, thankfully, waited to determine if I should be worried or angry. Thank you to everyone who tried to help me, and a big middle finger to those who just wanted to put me down when I was looking for help. 



I started having self esteem issues when I got married. In my previous relationships, I was desired, and I knew it. I had the interest of multiple women throughout high school, then into college. Once I entered the work force I was looked at as the "hot guy" in the office, and was hit on by multiple women. I know it's silly, but this was a big boost to my self esteem. I felt desired by whichever girlfriend I had at the time, and also knew that I was desirable in general because other women would flirt. Once I started talking to my now wife, I felt desired by her as well, and she let me know it constantly.

Now, there is no attention from other women. I don't work with women, and because of Covid and life in general, I don't spend much time around women at all, so even if someone did want to flirt with me, there would be no opportunity. Now, my self esteem fluctuates based off of the reactions I get from my wife. Sometimes I feel like she wants me, sometimes I don't. We just had a conversation about it this week, and she assured me that she is very attracted to me and wants me all the time. I have been working out and eating better and have finally managed to get in decent shape. I have felt good about myself, and my self esteem started to improve. My wife has been talking more about me being hot, and her sexual desires for me. Then, something happened last night.

Friday or Saturday night is adult night. My wife and I get a little high and fool around, and it's always good. It heightens the mood, and she's much more sexual, which I like, and she seems to enjoy it as well. Last night we were following the same playbook. We were supposed to have an edible, take a shower together, and then play cards until we were both high and ready to go to the bedroom. Well, she was high and so was I, and I attempted to stop playing cards and go have sex. We were on the first hand and I told her I didn't think I would be able to make it through, and we should go to the bedroom instead because just looking at her was turning me on so much. She laughed a little, and kept playing. Ok, let's get through this hand and then we'll go, I thought. That was negative though number one. We finished the hand, and I again attempted to get her into the bedroom. She continued acting like she wanted to play cards. So I figured she would rather play cards than have sex with me. That was negative thought number two. So, we played another hand. Then I said again that I wanted to go to the bedroom, and she again took a long beat and said OK. In my mind, she still sounded like she would rather play cards, so I said **** it, let's just keep playing cards. By that point, she could tell something was bothering me (I feel like it should have been obvious) and I didn't want to have sex anymore. My self esteem dropped. While I kept trying to get her to finish the game, she kept trying to go to the bedroom. I felt like she was only doing it out of pity, so that was negative through number three.

Finally, I followed her into the bedroom, where she was on the bed. I was not in the mood in any sense, but felt I had to fake it to keep her from feeling bad. So, I started looking for a shirt to put on while I went down on her because I was cold, and I guess I was acting strange, so she said "What's wrong with you?" That started negative thought number four, is something wrong with me? Am I wrong to be upset about this? Anyway, I performed oral for a while (I really enjoy doing it) but kept thinking she was faking it, because she would rather play cards anyway, right? By then I had decided to focus on her, and after a few orgasms we started having sex.

Last week, on another adult night, we looked into each others eyes for a long time. I couldn't even look at her this time because I felt bad about myself. I figured that she got hers, and she didn't want to be doing it anyway, so I just tried to orgasm as fast as I could. Then I changed into bed clothes and walked out of the bedroom. When she came out, she gave me a hug, and I apologized for it not lasting very long because on those nights, it usually lasts for hours. She just said "you didn't have a good time." Which was the truth, I didn't, but she doesn't even know why, and I don't know if I should bother telling her.

Now I'm typing this, because I feel horrible about myself. Taking a backseat to playing cards wasn't exactly an ego boost, and while I know it's not up to her to make me feel good about myself, it is nice to be desired. Now my mood is worse, I'm depressed, and I don't know what to do. If I tell her, she'll say she won't do it again. But I'll still be thinking at any given moment that whatever she wants to do is more important than the intimate time we have together. I'm starting to wonder if I should start flirting with women more myself just to make her jealous, or feel like there's competition. Maybe that would let her know that she needs to show her desire or show me that I'm desirable because if she doesn't, others will. That also sounds very petty of me, so I don't know. I'm just looking for insight, or some help. I don't want to start an argument, but this whole situation really bothered me. If the roles were reversed, I'm sure she would have felt bad, simply because the expectation wasn't to play cards all night, it was to have sex. I want to make sure I'm not overreacting before I bring it up.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Maybe the pot is making you paranoid.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

This amount of fragility is a huge turn off.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Maybe the pot is making you paranoid.


It sure as hell doesn't help. I've known that it could be an issue, so I worked on my own attitude to try to not be so bothered by it. I talk to myself and rationalize it, and I'm a rational person. But after the third attempt, I couldn't avoid it.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Maybe she just didn’t want to have regularily scheduled sex. She doesn’t have to have sex at the same time each week. I typically enjoy 2-4 sessions a week( over 50), but not the same way and time each week.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> It sure as hell doesn't help. I've known that it could be an issue, so I worked on my own attitude to try to not be so bothered by it. I talk to myself and rationalize it, and I'm a rational person. But after the third attempt, I couldn't avoid it.


What’s wrong with sober sex? She could have had cramps, gas, been tired, felt down. Million reasons.
Sounds like your issue is more not being seen as the hot guy at work dangling attentive women.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> This amount of fragility is a huge turn off.


Understandable, and I agree, but I wasn't fragile initially. As a matter of fact, I have spent more time being self assured than not, especially in the past few years. But three attempts to have sex being denied to play cards instead, when the whole point of the one night a week is to have grown up time and lots of sex, really annoyed me. It also isn't the first time something has happened, but the longer the list gets, the harder it is to keep it from having an impact.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Maybe she just didn’t want to have regularily scheduled sex. She doesn’t have to have sex at the same time each week. I typically enjoy 2-4 sessions a week( over 50), but not the same way and time each week.


I agree, and we do have regular sex as well, but we normally have that one night a week where we like to go longer, and spend more time feeling good. We both know that we have our own inhibitions, and getting high helps us let loose, and then we can talk about it later to try to be more comfortable in general. We both know that we can be open, but still have a hard time with it, so the high helps.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Sounds selfish: my time to have lots of sex. How about ho out to eat? Try romancing her instead of: pot, cards, bang

Again, this is about your ego and sounds a bit like “ hmmm maybe other women would follow my direction more quickly”. Your wife sounds like a good sport and decent person


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Or she’s not into the stuff she won’t do unless she’s high


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> What’s wrong with sober sex? She could have had cramps, gas, been tired, felt down. Million reasons.
> Sounds like your issue is more not being seen as the hot guy at work dangling attentive women.


My issue is that the plan was to get high and have sex, which we do once a week, even though we have sex regularly as well. She didn't say anything beforehand about any issues that would make her not want to have sex, because those reasons would have been legitimate. We had talked about being hot for each other all week, we had just had an enjoyable day out, and we were both excited about having that time and experience together. Then, she just wanted to play cards. When she had to decide between sex and cards, she chose cards. I don't really care about being desirable in the past, it was just an example to show that I have been desirable before, and now the once person who is supposed to desire me would choose a deck of Bicycle playing cards and a game of Rummy over sex. I guess what I'm saying is, her actions didn't match her words, and I noticed.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Sounds selfish: my time to have lots of sex. How about ho out to eat? Try romancing her instead of: pot, cards, bang
> 
> Again, this is about your ego and sounds a bit like “ hmmm maybe other women would follow my direction more quickly”. Your wife sounds like a good sport and decent person


I like these assumptions, but we had just spent the day together. I made a reservation at a nice restaurant for brunch, and we went shopping. I talked about how much I loved her a million times during the week, and how thankful I was to have her in my life that very day.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

She’s allowed to skip sec once in a blu moon.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

How old are you and do you have kids?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You seem to like your life very regimental, everything has to be done in order. 
Have you ever thought about actually seducing your wife, making her feel wanted and desirable rather than just another thing to check off on your list. 
Cards ☑
Edibles☑
Shower☑
Sex ☑
And stop with the self pity, it’s not attractive at all.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Agree with others. Sex is one of those things imo that shouldn’t be part of an “itinerary.” My husband and I have spontaneous sex (my husband mainly initiates but it’s not planned) and to me, if we have to start planning for it, it might not be as fun for us. It would feel bad to me, if we have to start adding it to a schedule.

Maybe that’s how your wife feels - this pressure to have sex on cue and that it’s mainly to boost your self esteem is somewhat of a turn off. Women can tell if a man is insecure.

Maybe just try to relax and go with the flow more and see if your wife’s desire for you flows more.

You really shouldn’t start flirting with women in hopes this makes your wife jealous. You’re married. You say you love your wife - that’s not a loving thing to do, imo.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> She’s allowed to skip sec once in a blu moon.


Skipping it wouldn't have been a problem, she just never said she wanted to do anything else. She never even said she just wanted to play cards. I asked her if she would rather play cards, and she said no, but acted like she did. If she had come out and said that, things would have been different.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Andy1001 said:


> You seem to like your life very regimental, everything has to be done in order.
> Have you ever thought about actually seducing your wife, making her feel wanted and desirable rather than just another thing to check off on your list.
> Cards ☑
> Edibles☑
> ...


Sorry, but you're wrong. The only plan we have those nights is to get high and have sex. During that time we have a good time. Also, if you've read the rest of the thread, I have been working on making her feel desirable because she is. I let her know I'm thinking about her, I send her dirty texts and pictures, and I also tell her how much I care for her and how much I love her. We had also literally just spent the day together. And it isn't my list, we both agreed that we need one night a week at least to spend longer together. We have an active sex life otherwise. It just threw me off that when given the choice, she chose cards.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Agree with others. Sex is one of those things imo that shouldn’t be part of an “itinerary.” My husband and I have spontaneous sex (my husband mainly initiates but it’s not planned) and to me, if we have to start planning for it, it might not be as fun for us. It would feel bad to me, if we have to start adding it to a schedule.
> 
> Maybe that’s how your wife feels - this pressure to have sex on cue and that it’s mainly to boost your self esteem is somewhat of a turn off. Women can tell if a man is insecure.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the last part, that seemed like a bad idea when I thought it, but I've been entertaining all options. Also, we do have spontaneous sex during the week, I do initiate, we just schedule the one night a week to be able to spend longer together. It isn't always just sex, we also go on dates during those times. But that day, we had spent the day together and were planning on having sex anyway because we had been all over each other for a few days.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> How old are you and do you have kids?


I think I get where you're going with this. We are both in our mid/late thirties, and we have one child. If you're going to ask if we're tired, the answer is yes. Getting up early for work and getting our kid to school, plus the regular evening routine, can be draining. When we have sex during the week, it lasts about 15 minutes and over. We like longer sessions too, which is why we chose the one night a week. I let her sleep in until almost noon on Saturday, then we got some donuts for a snack, went shopping, and I had made reservations for brunch. Afterwards, we did some more shopping.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

No I’m not asking if she’s tired. You seem manic/ needy as though if your plan isn’t followed the earth is off its axis. You have a goo sex life. Counting and noting the few times your wife isn’t into is not helpful. Also, getting high weekly doesn’t seem that great long term


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

you should start talking to your wife

don't start sex for a while and withdraw yourself

go to mc

start checking these options

before that, check your wife's call logs from the service provider.

If you know the passwords, check the phone.

Although it may seem bad to say, first you have to make sure there is no one in the closet,


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> No I’m not asking if she’s tired. You seem manic/ needy as though if your plan isn’t followed the earth is off its axis. You have a goo sex life. Counting and noting the few times your wife isn’t into is not helpful. Also, getting high weekly doesn’t seem that great long term


I can appreciate that. I have an appointment with a therapist in a month for this kind of stuff. I think that when I did feel desirable previously, it was with women that I didn't care about as much as my wife. And because of my upbringing and lack of parenting, and because I never even saw much affection in my own family, my fears of having anything other than a good relationship/marriage/sex life get in the way and cause a lot of my self esteem issues, when in reality I should look at them as single events and not a problem at large.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

bygone said:


> you should start talking to your wife
> 
> don't start sex for a while and withdraw yourself
> 
> ...


I know, I've though about that stuff, but at the same time I know that it would feed into my paranoia even more. I trust that she isn't seeing anyone, and we also talk a lot about our relationship. We are comfortable together, so a lot of this might just be my own mental health issues.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

change is constant in marriage, people are growing, changing

I'm concerned with your feelings, you've been thinking long enough to decide you need to talk.

You must act now,

check everything first, try to get an idea of the reason for the change

Decide based on what you have.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Wow..... 
I guess my first thought was maybe she likes to play cards. Maybe sitting looking at you and the teasing that can come when you are competitively engaged might be a turn on for her. Many people like the build up prior to sex. But you aren't upset she didn't want sex. You are upset she didn't want sex the same exact time and way you wanted sex. You said you usually play cards until your horny. Originally I thought that meant until both of you are horny. But no it just means until YOU are horny. 

This whole mind **** you have going on is so very unfair to your wife and very selfish.
You should have plenty of self esteem that she actually seems to still care about you and your feelings after you acting so childish and passive agressive.

Don't know if it's you or the pot but you really need to work on your internal dialog and your external communication skills.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Climb up here and have a seat on ol' Oldshirts' knee and let's have a little talk about the real world and how things actually work in a long term marriage with children because I went through 20 years ago what you are starting to go through now. In fact what you call Adult Night, we didn't try to church it up and we just called it what it was and called it Drunken Sex Night where we would play sexy drinking games with Everclear and watch group sex porn and bang away on each other for literally hours upon hours. 

But we all eventually wake up one day living in the real world. 

You may have been the hottest hunk on campus and you may be an attractive and sexy guy. 

And your wife may have been the sexiest hottie pattottie in town that made your dck so hard you could crack walnuts with it. And she still is an attractive and sexual being. 

But......

But now she is also a middle age wife and mother that has been in a long term marriage for a good number of years and it is a natural process of life that as women settle into home and family and motherhood and are in a long term, stable relationship their level of spontaneous desire and resting sex drive will attenuate. 

A man's level of resting desire will remain relatively high by comparison.

Women get bored with the same ol' same ol' quicker and their libido drops more precipitously with routine. So even though you may have had a super grand ol' time getting stoned and getting down and consider it the high point of your week (pun intended) to her it is slipping into routine and losing it's luster sooner. 

And life in general is taking it's toll on her libido more than yours. 

This is where couples do things to shake it up and bring a little more variety and novelty etc into their lives. Things like toys and lingerie and date nights out dancing and partying it up and weekend getaways and hotel suites with heart shaped jaccuzzi's and vacations to sunny beaches with massage cabannas on the beach etc etc etc etc etc 

And I also want to throw out there that those hotties that you are remembering fondly from 20 years ago, they are also now taking a deep breath with a sigh and rolling their eyes and grunting "fine" when their long term husbands and partners are feeling frisky as well. Those chicks that were swatting your behind and sticking their tongues down your throat while grinding against your woody in the bathroom of the campus club, probably haven't given a propper blow job in the last 5 years and telling their husbands to hurry up and finish before Jimmy Fallon comes on so they can see Chris Evans while is the guest on Jimmy Fallon that night. 

She hasn't fallen out of love with you. She's not hooking up with another dude. She doesn't think you are fat and ugly. She hasn't lost her sexuality. 

This is a normal and natural part of the long term relationship process. It's the price we pay for long term, stable, monogamous relationships and home and family. 

It's not insurmountable and it can be managed and dealt with and there can even still be moments of passion and honest intimacy now and then. 

But the ol' grey mare just ain't what she used to be and no matter how pretty and sexy and great she is now, she will never be the hot and horny, single, childless 22 year old shaking her booty and blowing you in the parking lot of the club like back in the day. 

She's in Mommy Mode now and it's going to be up to you to shake things up and get her out of the house for new experiences and new adventures going forward.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Wow.....
> I guess my first thought was maybe she likes to play cards. Maybe sitting looking at you and the teasing that can come when you are competitively engaged might be a turn on for her. Many people like the build up prior to sex. But you aren't upset she didn't want sex. You are upset she didn't want sex the same exact time and way you wanted sex. You said you usually play cards until your horny. Originally I thought that meant until both of you are horny. But no it just means until YOU are horny.
> 
> This whole mind **** you have going on is so very unfair to your wife and very selfish.
> ...


This is the first time we've played cards while high, the plan was just to play until we were ready to have sex, but that time came and went. Also, I haven't acted any way yet that wasn't honest. I wasn't passive aggressive, I was willing to play cards instead. And I also continued on with sex when she said she wanted to, even though I didn't. My internal dialogue needs a lot of work to be sure, so that's a good point.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Climb up here and have a seat on ol' Oldshirts' knee and let's have a little talk about the real world and how things actually work in a long term marriage with children because I went through 20 years ago what you are starting to go through now. In fact what you call Adult Night, we didn't try to church it up and we just called it what it was and called it Drunken Sex Night where we would play sexy drinking games with Everclear and watch group sex porn and bang away on each other for literally hours upon hours.
> 
> But we all eventually wake up one day living in the real world.
> 
> ...


I think the issue was literally that she talks so much about me being attractive and wanting me, but when it came time to show it, she chose a deck of cards. That's the biggest issue with her. Then, my own brain took over and my self worth went down the toilet.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Wow.....
> I guess my first thought was maybe she likes to play cards. Maybe sitting looking at you and the teasing that can come when you are competitively engaged might be a turn on for her. Many people like the build up prior to sex. But you aren't upset she didn't want sex. You are upset she didn't want sex the same exact time and way you wanted sex. You said you usually play cards until your horny. Originally I thought that meant until both of you are horny. But no it just means until YOU are horny.
> 
> This whole mind **** you have going on is so very unfair to your wife and very selfish.
> ...


Also, let me say, she said she was also horny. We were asking dirty questions, talking about each other, and she was into it. But when I asked to move to the bedroom, she declined. She didn't tell me she wanted to continue cards, or to continue our conversation, or anything. She just acted like she wanted to play cards instead, so that's what we did until I figured it's what she really wanted, and at that point she was only trying to have sex to keep me from being upset, which I also didn't like.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I can appreciate that. I have an appointment with a therapist in a month for this kind of stuff. I think that when I did feel desirable previously, it was with women that I didn't care about as much as my wife. And because of my upbringing and lack of parenting, and because I never even saw much affection in my own family, my fears of having anything other than a good relationship/marriage/sex life get in the way and cause a lot of my self esteem issues, when in reality I should look at them as single events and not a problem at large.


You're looking to her for confirmation and confidence, and when you don't get it you quickly deflate and your world crashes. Strike one in her eyes.

You asked to stop playing cards and have sex, instead of just leading and scooping her up. She may have been testing your resolve, and you failed by agreeing to play another round. Strike two in her eyes.

You're trying to "nice guy" her into the sack. Strike three in her eyes.

Her libido needs you to step up, not down, when the going gets slightly tough. Channel some of that sexual energy and dirty talk you have during the week into moments like the card game incident. You're folding when you should be raising, even if you're bluffing somewhat. Be that daring self confident guy for her (and yourself) in moments like this.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

a couple of extra hands playing cards is equated to her not being attracted to you? could it instead simply be she was enjoying the game at the moment, and what's so horrible about that?

that's quite a stretch. your insecurities are your own to resolve. and if you think the dope is "adding" to your sex life I am here to tell you it adds other things as well.......like the instant overreaction you had to a couple more hands.

get off the pot and work on your insecurities.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Dude…. You shouldn’t be relying on other women to boost your ego. And also, truly…. It’s not your wife’s jobs to make you feel the way you want to feel. Sure if that happens as a side affect of other things she’s does for you that’s great. But that is A LOT of pressure on a spouse to expect a show of some sort all the time to be put on just to be sure you feel good about yourself. 

That would turn me way off. It would be liken to me saying my man doesn’t love me because I don’t get XYZ, every day or every week in your case on the day it’s planned as an ‘adult’ night. 

Maybe talk to a counselor to find way to build yourself up so you’re not putting all that on your spouse. It may be weighing on her too. 

Our spouse should be our safe space but dang, we can’t expect them to read our every though or really even cater to our every need just because we feel bad..


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> Wow.....
> I guess my first thought was maybe she likes to play cards. Maybe sitting looking at you and the teasing that can come when you are competitively engaged might be a turn on for her. Many people like the build up prior to sex. But you aren't upset she didn't want sex. You are upset she didn't want sex the same exact time and way you wanted sex. You said you usually play cards until your horny. Originally I thought that meant until both of you are horny. But no it just means until YOU are horny.
> 
> This whole mind **** you have going on is so very unfair to your wife and very selfish.
> ...


I think this is spot on and thanks for putting a woman's perspective on it. OP needs to listen to this advice and so do I and many other men.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I think the issue was literally that she talks so much about me being attractive and wanting me, but when it came time to show it, she chose a deck of cards. That's the biggest issue with her. Then, my own brain took over and my self worth went down the toilet.


Women are “feelers” and talkers, men are doers.

I kind of agree with the others that she may have been looking to you to show her that you want and desire her and have the giblets to take the bull by the horns and do it,,, which you kinda failed.

And on an even more serious note, if you are going to let your self esteem and self image be dependent on how much she screws you,, you are going to be in for big trouble and will likely end up in some shrink’s office. 

And I agree with the others that you acting all butthurt because she didn’t throw you over her shoulder and ravage you is a big turn off. 

If your self image needs to be with someone that is horny all the time, thinking about wild, monkey sex nonstop and always wanting to jump your bones and ravage you at any moment, you’re gonna hafta turn gay and get with dudes because that is what dudes do and not middle age mothers that have been married for 15 years.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Reality: Sometimes people would rather do something other than have sex. And that's okay.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> Now, there is no attention from other women. I don't work with women, and because of Covid and life in general, I don't spend much time around women at all, so even if someone did want to flirt with me, there would be no opportunity. Now, my self esteem fluctuates based off of the reactions I get from my wife.


Your sense of self-worth and attractiveness should never be dependant on another. Not some woman, your wife or anyone else. How you are seen by anyone else, is dependant upon how you carry yourself and present yourself, this includes hygiene, physical fitness and attitude.

99.9% of women are attracted to a man who exudes confidence in himself, displays inner strength, but is not cocky. A lot of women also like a bit of danger or "bad boy" in a man and even their husband. In a way, marriage requires two different things for a man. (1) a wife generally wants to feel safe and secure for her and her children and (2) she is naturally programmed to sexually respond to a man who is a bit dangerous/adventurous, etc. 

The key is to learn how to balance both aspects in yourself and to know both the limits and the timing to emphasize each aspect. In marriage, time and life change things. But I have learned that even after 38+ years of marriage, my wife really likes me to pursue her and she likes that I make her feel safe, but knows I have my own things. My wife reacts to this almost subconsciously and the mating dance begins. I pursue, she teases, then wham...


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Listen to oldshirt he is a wise old bird, however I don't totally agree with him that you have to accept that a mother in her thirties/forties will become LD and only provide duty sex.

You end up at this stage by allowing to much complacency in the relationship, to much certainly.

His advice in regard to holidays and hotels and changes of scene is spot on.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Make sure you get individual counseling. If you think it's bad now, wait until you've been married another 20 years. She's going to tire of being responsible for you maintaining your self worth. It sounds like you're driving the train, and she's just a passenger.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

I seem to have written this a lot this week, but you sound exhausting. You are making a huge mountain out of a molehill.

You also sound extremely arrogant. You sound like the 17 year old captain of the football team from all the 80’s teen movies who turned out to be a jerk because he thought everyone wanted him and wanted to be him. It’s time to grow up. 

And now you want to flirt to prove to your wife how hot you are? I would hate to have to walk on eggshells around you to keep your ego so boosted, and then be threatened (even if you don’t tell her) with inappropriate marital behavior outside the marriage. 

I can only assume she knows these things about you.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Self-esteem comes from within. Your wife isn't responsible for your confidence ebbing and flowing. Nor are any of these women who used to flirt with you in the past. One night not going as you planned it isn't a disaster.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

snowbum said:


> Maybe she just didn’t want to have regularily scheduled sex. She doesn’t have to have sex at the same time each week. I typically enjoy 2-4 sessions a week( over 50), but not the same way and time each week.


Im really not seeing where she’s not into it, not committed to sex being important for her, for him, and together. Nobody can be expected to react exactly the same way, every time. She’s mixing it up a bit, and I think that helps keep things from getting stale. Once in a while she goes into responsive desire mode. Why should that be an issue?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> In my previous relationships, I was desired, and I knew it. I had the interest of multiple women throughout high school, then into college. Once I entered the work force I was looked at as the "hot guy" in the office, and was hit on by multiple women.
> 
> Now, there is no attention from other women.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if I should start flirting with women more myself just to make her jealous, or feel like there's competition. Maybe that would let her know that she needs to show her desire or show me that I'm desirable because if she doesn't, others will.


You need therapy, and you have needed it for a long time. 

You shouldn't need other women to flirt with you for you to feel good about yourself. Being that way makes you very high risk for cheating. 

The problem here is you, not your wife.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Quad73 said:


> You're looking to her for confirmation and confidence, and when you don't get it you quickly deflate and your world crashes. Strike one in her eyes.
> 
> You asked to stop playing cards and have sex, instead of just leading and scooping her up. She may have been testing your resolve, and you failed by agreeing to play another round. Strike two in her eyes.
> 
> ...


I agree with a lot of the sentiment, but the issue is that I shouldn't have to be the one to always initiate. We had planned this night together, it shouldn't be up to me to just sweep her off her feet every single time. I think a lot of the comments are looking into it more than they should, because the largest issue I had was that she had a choice to have sex with me, which was the plan for days, or play cards, and she chose cards. But she didn't choose cards until it was time for sex. But, I did enjoy your card game examples, and I think you're right, I shouldn't have given her an opportunity to say no when she had already agreed previously. I just get so tired of taking the lead.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

x598 said:


> a couple of extra hands playing cards is equated to her not being attracted to you? could it instead simply be she was enjoying the game at the moment, and what's so horrible about that?
> 
> that's quite a stretch. your insecurities are your own to resolve. and if you think the dope is "adding" to your sex life I am here to tell you it adds other things as well.......like the instant overreaction you had to a couple more hands.
> 
> get off the pot and work on your insecurities.


I've noticed that the weed is more of a hindrance than a help these days, for sure. It gives me more opportunity to get in my head, and then I can't get out. But it wasn't that she wanted to play cards, it was that we weren't supposed to play cards the whole time. We were supposed to stop to have sex, but even though she said she wanted to, and I was trying to, she didn't stop playing cards. It literally felt like she chose cards over intimacy with her husband, and I did take offense at that. I'm sure if we planned for 3 days to have sex, and then when the time came I decided to play Monopoly instead, she would be offended as well.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> Im really not seeing where she’s not into it, not committed to sex being important for her, for him, and together. Nobody can be expected to react exactly the same way, every time. She’s mixing it up a bit, and I think that helps keep things from getting stale. Once in a while she goes into responsive desire mode. Why should that be an issue?


I think a lot of what I said has been misconstrued. We have regular sex, there isn't an issue with that. The issue previously was that I didn't have my needs met. I needed more physical contact, and the only way to get that was to have a night a week where it was just us. Because of work and school schedules, that couldn't happen during the week, so it's usually a Friday or Saturday night. We both agreed to this because we both said it was something we needed and wanted. But when the time came, she didn't choose to have sex with me, she chose to continue playing cards. I had been telling her how much I desired her, and had been showing her all week. It was just when it was time to get started, she didn't want it.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

bobert said:


> You need therapy, and you have needed it for a long time.
> 
> You shouldn't need other women to flirt with you for you to feel good about yourself. Being that way makes you very high risk for cheating.
> 
> The problem here is you, not your wife.


I agree that I need therapy, and I have an appointment next month. And I know I shouldn't rely on others for my own sense of worth, but I really feel that the way my wife feels about me is important. I don't flirt with women anymore, I flirt with my wife. I'm not looking to cheat, but I'm also not looking to be in a relationship where intimacy, sex, and connection are taking a backseat to a game.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Self-esteem comes from within. Your wife isn't responsible for your confidence ebbing and flowing. Nor are any of these women who used to flirt with you in the past. One night not going as you planned it isn't a disaster.


The issue is that it hasn't been one night. It's been multiple. She's started falling asleep during sex, and while she used to look at me with "that" look, she doesn't act on it at all anymore. Things were actually going great, but in the last few months they have been gradually getting worse.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I agree with a lot of the sentiment, but the issue is that I shouldn't have to be the one to always initiate. We had planned this night together, it shouldn't be up to me to just sweep her off her feet every single time. I think a lot of the comments are looking into it more than they should, because the largest issue I had was that she had a choice to have sex with me, which was the plan for days, or play cards, and she chose cards. But she didn't choose cards until it was time for sex. But, I did enjoy your card game examples, and I think you're right, I shouldn't have given her an opportunity to say no when she had already agreed previously. I just get so tired of taking the lead.


Shouldn’t have given her a choice? You know that’s rape. What a guy.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I agree that I need therapy, and I have an appointment next month. And I know I shouldn't rely on others for my own sense of worth, but I really feel that the way my wife feels about me is important. I don't flirt with women anymore, I flirt with my wife. I'm not looking to cheat, but I'm also not looking to be in a relationship where intimacy, sex, and connection are taking a backseat to a game.


for gods sake it’s one night. If this is who you are your wife would be better off without a selfish child who demands sex. Do you realize how awful this sounds? My wife didn’t have sex one night so maybe I need someone else who prioritizes Me? That’s ticking warped. That is not live. What you are describing is crazy.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> I seem to have written this a lot this week, but you sound exhausting. You are making a huge mountain out of a molehill.
> 
> You also sound extremely arrogant. You sound like the 17 year old captain of the football team from all the 80’s teen movies who turned out to be a jerk because he thought everyone wanted him and wanted to be him. It’s time to grow up.
> 
> ...


I really didn't mean to sound arrogant, it's just the literal truth. I used to be in a position where I got more attention from women, but now I only get it from my wife, and that is starting to wane. And I didn't say I wanted to flirt, I said I had thought about it because maybe she would get jealous. I also said that sounded petty, and in another comment I thanked someone for telling me it's a bad idea. My ego also doesn't have to be boasted all the time, but when I'm the one who initiates everything, it starts to get old. Then I start to spiral and think about all the ways she doesn't find me attractive. I wish people would read the rest of the comments before making their own.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> she had a choice to have sex with me, which was the plan for days, or play cards, and she chose cards.


Dude, get over it. She is allowed to change her mind or not feel into it - and based on your reaction here, I don't blame her for not straight up saying she wasn't into it that night.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I think a lot of what I said has been misconstrued. We have regular sex, there isn't an issue with that. The issue previously was that I didn't have my needs met. I needed more physical contact, and the only way to get that was to have a night a week where it was just us. Because of work and school schedules, that couldn't happen during the week, so it's usually a Friday or Saturday night. We both agreed to this because we both said it was something we needed and wanted. But when the time came, she didn't choose to have sex with me, she chose to continue playing cards. I had been telling her how much I desired her, and had been showing her all week. It was just when it was time to get started, she didn't want it.


Did I misread your post? I thought she was ready and wiling at the end of the card game. She wasn’t trying to avoid it; she just needed more time to warm up to it, to not feel forced. Sometimes you can’t just summon sexual desire on command. She knows this, and works with it. You, on the other hand…

You’re going to lose everything, and it sounds like she’s worth keeping. That’s terrible. Get your act together and stop acting so needy. She DOES desire you! Recognize how lucky you are for that.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> for gods sake it’s one night. If this is who you are your wife would be better off without a selfish child who demands sex. Do you realize how awful this sounds? My wife didn’t have sex one night so maybe I need someone else who prioritizes Me? That’s ticking warped. That is not live. What you are describing is crazy.


I don't understand why you are being such an asshole about this. My wife and I planned sex for days, and then she chose to play cards instead. It made me have a legitimate feeling, but it seems like I should suffer in silence and let is fester instead of getting online and asking for opinions and ideas from others. Phrasing the way you have makes me think you would personally be better off if you didn't join in during any of these discussions, because what you are doing is not beneficial at all. I also never said I needed someone else to prioritize me. Please, read the rest of the thread and stop projecting.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Dude, get over it. She is allowed to change her mind or not feel into it - and based on your reaction here, I don't blame her for not straight up saying she wasn't into it that night.


The problem is she never did change her mind. She acted like she wanted to continue playing cards while actively telling me she wanted to have sex. It was confusing, and it appeared that she wanted to continue the card game, which I was willing to do, if she had just said that to begin with. Instead, she kept alluding to sex while never once stopping the game.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Don't mind Snowbum, it's not just you 🙃


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> Did I misread your post? I thought she was ready and wiling at the end of the card game. She wasn’t trying to avoid it; she just needed more time to warm up to it, to not feel forced. Sometimes you can’t just summon sexual desire on command. She knows this, and works with it. You, on the other hand…
> 
> You’re going to lose everything, and it sounds like she’s worth keeping. That’s terrible. Get your act together and stop acting so needy. She DOES desire you! Recognize how lucky you are for that.


She was "ready and willing" after the third time I said I was ready to go to the bedroom, and it went something like this.

Me: I want you bad, I can't keep playing cards, this is ridiculous. Let's go to the bedroom.

Her: Looks longingly at the cards

Me: Come on, I can't take this

Her: Keeps looking at the cards, then me, then the cards

Me: Do you just want to keep playing cards? Cause that's fine, we can just play cards.

Her: No! I want to have sex!

Me: Then lets go?

Her: (Stares at the cards, looking around at the discard pile and her own hand for 15 seconds)..........Ok, let's go.

This was over a 20 minute period, not 3 times in a row.

I just never really got the vibe that she wanted me more than the cards, even though she spent days talking about how much she wanted me and how she couldn't wait until that night. But she never said she just wanted the cards.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Shouldn’t have given her a choice? You know that’s rape. What a guy.


Projecting again, seeing as how many people have told me I should have taken the lead, taken her hand, scooped her up, etc. Notice how I asked her multiple times if she was ready for sex (as was the plan) and that being the nice guy (by giving her the choice) is something I maybe shouldn't have done. Please, stop trying to act like a keyboard savior and go away.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Kput said:


> Don't mind Snowbum, it's not just you 🙃


Thanks, I am having a legitimate concern and snowbum seems to be trying to turn me into a super villain.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> Thanks, I am having a legitimate concern and snowbum seems to be trying to turn me into a super villain.


She does that to everyone.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> Listen to oldshirt he is a wise old bird, however I don't totally agree with him that you have to accept that a mother in her thirties/forties will become LD and only provide duty sex.


In a way we do need to accept that things and people will change over the years, but I’m not necessarily saying that life will be asexual or duty sex only at all.

I’m saying that you can’t do the same thing time after time after time forever and expect it to always be the same fireworks and rainbows and unicorns. 

What sparked fire and passion and high octane wild monkey sex in past usually won’t after doing it for the umpteenth time on a regular basis. 

You have to shake things up and try different things periodically.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Kput said:


> Don't mind Snowbum, it's not just you 🙃


So I’m a villain though you started a witch hunt accusing your wife of cheating and being bad in bed. Sure. And I’m a villain for saying a guy having a conniption because his wife doesn’t obey his every whim might have issues . Ok


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I shouldn't have given her an opportunity to say no when she had already agreed previously.


Woah there tiger! That's rape you're peddling, so what the **** is wrong with you?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@MarriedOnce1 throwing a little sulky temper tantrum, because you didn't get your way in exactly the way and timing you wanted does you no favours. Believing everyone else but yourself is responsible for your own self esteem is ****ed up.

Seriously do yourself and your wife a favour, and take a hard look at yourself. Then look into learning about toxic behaviours in relationships, so that you can understand what you're doing wrong.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Personal said:


> @MarriedOnce1 throwing a little sulky temper tantrum, because you didn't get your way in exactly the way and timing you wanted does you no favours. Believing everyone else but yourself is responsible for your own self esteem is ****ed up.
> 
> Seriously do yourself and your wife a favour, and take a hard look at yourself. Then look into learning about toxic behaviours in relationships, so that you can understand what you're doing wrong.


I don't think I ever said I had a temper tantrum. I actually did the opposite and tried to follow through with our plan, and when she seemed like she didn't want to, I tried to follow her plan, which was to play cards. I didn't show my disappointment, and when she tried to appease me, I followed through to avoid a conflict. Then I waited until today to get on an forum to ask if I was justified in my feelings or not. While the majority of comments and posts have given me good information and things to think about, yours and Snowbum's posts have been nothing buy accusatory and you have tried to gaslight me at every turn. I have been honest in what I feel and what happened, and also how I handled the situation. I have responded as politely as possible to each person who did the same to me, and I hope you find a little peace in knowing that your opinion has meant nothing to me, and I suspect most people don't look to you for any kind of advice, whether it be love, life, or picking out curtains.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

@MarriedOnce1 Men put much greater value on sex than most women do. It only gets worse with time.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> Either a snowbum friend or a burner account, no one is buying it. Please, if you aren't going to participate properly, then don't do it at all.





MarriedOnce1 said:


> I shouldn't have given her an opportunity to say no when she had already agreed previously.


Your wife is allowed to withdrawal sexual consent at any point inclusive of before she shares any sex with you, and even while she is sharing sex with you.

Your claim that you "shouldn't have given her an opportunity to say no", is tantamount to saying that her sexual consent is not something that she can decide for herself.

Of which even in many states in the United States, thankfully you can be prosecuted for rape, if you choose to have sex with your wife without her consent.

Lest you want to risk potentially going to jail for rape, you would do well to start reading about the laws on rape where you liv,e and adjust your attitude to such things accordingly.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> While the majority of comments and posts have given me good information and things to think about, yours and Snowbum's posts have been nothing buy accusatory and you have tried to gaslight me at every turn.


Read what you wrote as quoted below very carefully.



MarriedOnce1 said:


> I shouldn't have given her an opportunity to say no when she had already agreed previously.


That isn't healthy, in fact it's really ****ed up. Try thinking about it a bit further to understand that such thinking, will not do you any favours in the long run.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> My issue is that the plan was to get high and have sex, which we do once a week, even though we have sex regularly as well. She didn't say anything beforehand about any issues that would make her not want to have sex, because those reasons would have been legitimate. We had talked about being hot for each other all week, we had just had an enjoyable day out, and we were both excited about having that time and experience together. Then, she just wanted to play cards. When she had to decide between sex and cards, she chose cards. I don't really care about being desirable in the past, it was just an example to show that I have been desirable before, and now the once person who is supposed to desire me would choose a deck of Bicycle playing cards and a game of Rummy over sex. I guess what I'm saying is, her actions didn't match her words, and I noticed.


You sound needy and reliant upon sex for validation of your worth.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I like these assumptions, but we had just spent the day together. I made a reservation at a nice restaurant for brunch, and we went shopping. I talked about how much I loved her a million times during the week, and how thankful I was to have her in my life that very day.


That sounds really over the top as far as telling her how much you love her a million times during the week. I mean I hope you really mean it but why do you feel the need to keep up a litany of that? Does she do the same thing? Or could this be seen as just buttering her up for sex?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> Sorry, but you're wrong. The only plan we have those nights is to get high and have sex. During that time we have a good time. Also, if you've read the rest of the thread, I have been working on making her feel desirable because she is. I let her know I'm thinking about her, I send her dirty texts and pictures, and I also tell her how much I care for her and how much I love her. We had also literally just spent the day together. And it isn't my list, we both agreed that we need one night a week at least to spend longer together. We have an active sex life otherwise. It just threw me off that when given the choice, she chose cards.


I think you're saying those things to her because that's what you wish she would do to you. I'm not getting the idea that she needs that much ego salving.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I agree with a lot of the sentiment, but the issue is that I shouldn't have to be the one to always initiate. We had planned this night together, it shouldn't be up to me to just sweep her off her feet every single time. I think a lot of the comments are looking into it more than they should, because the largest issue I had was that she had a choice to have sex with me, which was the plan for days, or play cards, and she chose cards. But she didn't choose cards until it was time for sex. But, I did enjoy your card game examples, and I think you're right, I shouldn't have given her an opportunity to say no when she had already agreed previously. I just get so tired of taking the lead.


Women don't initiate as often as a rule because women don't want sex as often as most men do as a general proposition. So why would they initiate sex on any kind of regular basis if they're getting as much sex as they want already and it's you wanting more?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I agree with a lot of the sentiment, but the issue is that I shouldn't have to be the one to always initiate. We had planned this night together, it shouldn't be up to me to just sweep her off her feet every single time. I think a lot of the comments are looking into it more than they should, because the largest issue I had was that she had a choice to have sex with me, which was the plan for days, or play cards, and she chose cards. But she didn't choose cards until it was time for sex. But, I did enjoy your card game examples, and I think you're right, I shouldn't have given her an opportunity to say no when she had already agreed previously. I just get so tired of taking the lead.


That last couple of sentences is really so wrong. You have got to get in individual therapy and work on your self-esteem and entitlement issues.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I don't understand why you are being such an asshole about this. My wife and I planned sex for days, and then she chose to play cards instead. It made me have a legitimate feeling, but it seems like I should suffer in silence and let is fester instead of getting online and asking for opinions and ideas from others. Phrasing the way you have makes me think you would personally be better off if you didn't join in during any of these discussions, because what you are doing is not beneficial at all. I also never said I needed someone else to prioritize me. Please, read the rest of the thread and stop projecting.


Do you know how much like a toddler you sound right now? There is literally nothing wrong with your wife preferring to play cards at the moment. Nothing at all.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> She was "ready and willing" after the third time I said I was ready to go to the bedroom, and it went something like this.
> 
> Me: I want you bad, I can't keep playing cards, this is ridiculous. Let's go to the bedroom.
> 
> ...


Because she didn't want you more than the cards at that moment. And there's nothing wrong with that. She wasn't in the mood just because you were horny this particular time so sue her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> Projecting again, seeing as how many people have told me I should have taken the lead, taken her hand, scooped her up, etc. Notice how I asked her multiple times if she was ready for sex (as was the plan) and that being the nice guy (by giving her the choice) is something I maybe shouldn't have done. Please, stop trying to act like a keyboard savior and go away.


After reading all this I can't believe she ever has sex with you.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Your wife is allowed to withdrawal sexual consent at any point inclusive of before she shares any sex with you, and even while she is sharing sex with you.
> 
> Your claim that you "shouldn't have given her an opportunity to say no", is tantamount to saying that her sexual consent is not something that she can decide for herself.
> 
> ...


I'm going to try to explain this as simply as possible since you either refuse to read the rest of the thread, or you just feel like looking at one poorly worded (on my part) sentence and decided to make accusations. Some of the recommendations were to "scoop her up" or romance her. When I said I shouldn't have given her the choice, I meant between having sex and playing cards. I should have taken the lead, as was suggested, not ask multiple times if she wanted to play cards instead. What I should have done was take her hand and lead her to the bedroom, or rubbed her shoulders, or whatever. If she had said anything when I tried that, I would have stopped and continued playing cards.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Personal has over 6,000 posts here. You should watch what you are accusing posters of.


I literally don't care how many posts someone has if they refuse to be serious and follow the actual thread, focusing instead on one misinterpreted (by them) and poorly phrased (by me) sentence. If anyone would care to read the full thread, this might not be an issue.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You sound needy and reliant upon sex for validation of your worth.


I do! I know I do and I hate it. Which is why, as I said a few times previously, I am going to be going to therapy. I have had an appointment for a few weeks.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That sounds really over the top as far as telling her how much you love her a million times during the week. I mean I hope you really mean it but why do you feel the need to keep up a litany of that? Does she do the same thing? Or could this be seen as just buttering her up for sex?


No, because none of this had anything to do with sex. My wife and I both come from very difficult backgrounds, poor and broken families, and we appreciate what we have with each other, and that causes us to express it regularly. Also, I'm not being literal, I don't mean I made a million comments, it's a phrase used to mean "a lot of" without giving an exact number.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think you're saying those things to her because that's what you wish she would do to you. I'm not getting the idea that she needs that much ego salving.


I'm sorry, but you're wrong again. I only do those things because I want to, and she has said she enjoys them. Whether she reciprocates or not is up to her.


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## OddOne (Sep 27, 2018)

@MarriedOnce1 You're probably best off using the ignore feature rather than arguing back and forth with others if you don't like what or how they comment on your thread. If you don't know how, click on a name then on the 3 dots in the top right corner of the pop-up window. The option will show up there. You then won't see their posts/comments whenever you're logged in.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That last couple of sentences is really so wrong. You have got to get in individual therapy and work on your self-esteem and entitlement issues.


As I've mentioned multiple times before, please go through the entire thread so as not to take my words and meaning out of context. I admit, my wording was less than desirable, but I was commenting on the fact that I should have taken the lead, which has been mentioned by a few commenters, and not given her options in the way I did. I should have made a move, and then it would either have been turned down or reciprocated. The problem would have resolved itself if I had just done that.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

OddOne said:


> @MarriedOnce1 You're probably best off using the ignore feature rather than arguing back and forth with others if you don't like what or how they comment on your thread. If you don't know how, click on a name then on the 3 dots in the top right corner of the pop-up window. The option will show up there. You then won't see their posts/comments whenever you're logged in.


Thanks for that, and I will. I just really want to make sure that my point and intentions have gotten across and aren't being misconstrued intentionally. There's only so much I can do to make my case, especially when the information is readily available. At some point I'll just assume they're trolling and block them.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Do you know how much like a toddler you sound right now? There is literally nothing wrong with your wife preferring to play cards at the moment. Nothing at all.


I didn't once say there was anything wrong with it. These kinds of comments let me know you are cherry picking the thread. Read all available information before making statements please. If you do, you will see that the problem wasn't that she wanted to play cards, it was that she wasn't clear on what she actually wanted. I didn't tell her how she made me feel, and I waited until today to give myself time to think and ask questions here to see if I had a valid complaint.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Because she didn't want you more than the cards at that moment. And there's nothing wrong with that. She wasn't in the mood just because you were horny this particular time so sue her.


Ah, exactly! You made my point for me. She didn't want me more than cards, yet she didn't make a choice. She could have said she wanted to play cards instead, which could have been fine. She told me she wanted to have sex while acting like she wanted to play cards, and the confusion caused some issues for me due to my own self esteem issues.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> After reading all this I can't believe she ever has sex with you.


I have a hard time believing that you made this comment after reading all of the other posts, so I'll give you a pass for your ignorance. The comment I made referenced some of the previous comments, which is what you should read.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> @MarriedOnce1 Men put much greater value on sex than most women do. It only gets worse with time.


I actually read an article recently that stated exactly that, but I think this time the issue was more of a missed communication or lack of communication in general.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> Ah, exactly! You made my point for me. She didn't want me more than cards, yet she didn't make a choice. She could have said she wanted to play cards instead, which could have been fine. She told me she wanted to have sex while acting like she wanted to play cards, and the confusion caused some issues for me due to my own self esteem issues.


Sounds like maybe she has a hard time telling you the truth because she believes you'll take it badly? She doesn't want to hurt your feelings, so she hopes you'll figure out her true intentions without her having to spell it out. So learn to communicate better. Set precedents of listening to her and not overreacting in other conversations that have nothing to do with sex.

Also, women are allowed to change their minds.

Attraction can be on and off, it's normal for libido to have lulls and peaks. You don't need to beat yourself up about it. Maybe she was worn down by other things going on that night. Attraction for women works quite differently than attraction for men.

If she has responsive desire, she may never initiate on her own. If her default setting is 'not thinking about sex' then it's just not going to occur to her. You have to be seductive instead of just saying things like "is it time to hit the bedroom yet?" You missed some opportunities to be sexual DURING the card game to get her warmed up to sex, from the sounds of it. Were you playing footsie with her under the card table? Were you brushing against her fingers when you reached for cards? You could have playfully suggested that the loser of each hand had to remove some clothing.

You seem to be falling into a mindset that sex is something she does for you, when it should be something you both do together.


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## OddOne (Sep 27, 2018)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> Thanks for that, and I will. I just really want to make sure that my point and intentions have gotten across and aren't being misconstrued intentionally. There's only so much I can do to make my case, especially when the information is readily available. At some point I'll just assume they're trolling and block them.


I learned a long time ago that it's virtually never successful to try and make a case, defend oneself after you've either been misunderstood or, worse, purposely misconstrued/taken out of context. It doesn't really matter who you are debating/arguing with. Most people have predetermined mindsets and ways of communicating. They are unlikely to change; more likely to double-down, if anything. Unless something serious is at stake, it's probably not worth the energy. I know it's the principal of the thing, but sometimes you just have to swallow your pride.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I'm going to try to explain this as simply as possible since you either refuse to read the rest of the thread, or you just feel like looking at one poorly worded (on my part) sentence and decided to make accusations. Some of the recommendations were to "scoop her up" or romance her. When I said I shouldn't have given her the choice, I meant between having sex and playing cards. I should have taken the lead, as was suggested, not ask multiple times if she wanted to play cards instead. What I should have done was take her hand and lead her to the bedroom, or rubbed her shoulders, or whatever. If she had said anything when I tried that, I would have stopped and continued playing cards.


Or, been calm enough to allow her to take the lead and determine the timetable instead. It’s easy to read what you’ve written and think either-


Things have to be done your way or you’re not happy or
You set her up for failure

Even as you try to justify your premise, what you write STILL makes many of us wonder, if only our spouses were a bit more like her.

If you don’t want her, I’m sure she’ll not have much trouble in the 2nd marriage market.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Snowbum, FFS i did not accuse my wife of having an affair, to accuse her I would have have to confronted her, I said nothing to her during or since my period of suspicion which turned out to be incorrect.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

MO1, If this happens again let it play out and see if she reaches a point of instigating sex, if she does it's a matter of timing, if she continues to avoid sex then you have an issue which you need to discuss with her preferably the next day when feelings are not running so high.

Make sure you get answers to your questions and not the "I don't know" type response.

Good luck


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Sounds like maybe she has a hard time telling you the truth because she believes you'll take it badly? She doesn't want to hurt your feelings, so she hopes you'll figure out her true intentions without her having to spell it out. So learn to communicate better. Set precedents of listening to her and not overreacting in other conversations that have nothing to do with sex.
> 
> Also, women are allowed to change their minds.
> 
> ...


I would like to say, in all seriousness, that you are correct. I've mentioned it previously, but the reason I am going to start therapy is because I know I have issues that pertain to my own sense of self worth. When I was a child I didn't get any attention at home, even though I was a high achiever at school. But, I was a high achiever at school because they gave me attention. I have been attention seeking for most of my life in one way or another, and it has been detrimental to my relationships and my own mental health. I can see when she is trying, but I have a negative attitude and when things don't go according to plan I always get so down. When all of this happened and she asked if she did anything wrong, I told her that she didn't, and my mentality is a slippery slope. One comment or lack of action that I assume should happen and I start getting these little snowflakes of doubt. "She wants cards more than me" falls from the sky, and then another negative snowflake, and then another, and before I know it I'm covered by a blizzard. I have a tendency for catastrophizing, so when I researched what to do about it, the only clear answer was to not fight it, but let the thoughts come and try to rationalize them. I am rational generally, but when it has anything to do with my self esteem I always end up feeling worse, no matter what I do.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> My issue is that the plan was to get high and have sex, which we do once a week, even though we have sex regularly as well. She didn't say anything beforehand about any issues that would make her not want to have sex, because those reasons would have been legitimate. We had talked about being hot for each other all week, we had just had an enjoyable day out, and we were both excited about having that time and experience together. Then, she just wanted to play cards. When she had to decide between sex and cards, she chose cards. I don't really care about being desirable in the past, it was just an example to show that I have been desirable before, and now the once person who is supposed to desire me would choose a deck of Bicycle playing cards and a game of Rummy over sex. I guess what I'm saying is, her actions didn't match her words, and I noticed.


Were in the the military by any chance?
OK, OK, STAND TO ATTENTION.
WAIT FOR IT, WAIT FOR IT, KNICKERS DOWN!
Try changing the card game to strip poker, which may help.
I honestly cannot understand what your problem is?


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> Or, been calm enough to allow her to take the lead and determine the timetable instead. It’s easy to read what you’ve written and think either-
> 
> 
> Things have to be done your way or you’re not happy or
> ...


God, I was loving what you were saying, and while your last sentence is true, it was a very rude thing to say. I never said anything about not wanting her, so for you to insinuate as much puts me off the rest of your comment. Having said that, I see your point, and I would like to say that the constant justification is part of my issue with my self worth. I have the negative thoughts and feelings, they are real even if they are unjustified, and I cannot seem to get myself out of the funk when they happen. I have worked hard to stop reacting to these types of stimuli, which is why I started taking time to wait and think about the whole thing, to process it as much as possible, and ask questions before I decide if it is a discussion worth pursuing. The bigger issue with me is that even if I determine that I AM overreacting, I still have difficulty convincing myself fully that I am wrong. Which is one of the reasons I am starting therapy soon.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

gameopoly5 said:


> Were in the the military by any chance?
> OK, OK, STAND TO ATTENTION.
> WAIT FOR IT, WAIT FOR IT, KNICKERS DOWN!
> Try changing the card game to strip poker, which may help.
> I honestly cannot understand what your problem is?


I feel like I've repeated myself a million times, but the problem wasn't necessarily with her, but with her reaction. She chose to play cards over having sex with me, even though she had been telling me how much she was looking forward to our weekend escapades. I took the wrong approach while trying to get her into the bedroom, and instead gave her ways out of it instead of taking the lead. When she chose cards, I took a big hit to my ego, and my own insecurities and self esteem came into play heavily. Because of my previous work on trying to better myself, I took the time to wait it out and think about it, plus get on this forum to start a thread and get some opinions. While some of them were rude and disingenuous, some have been very helpful and I have been trying to find other points of view besides my own, which I can't trust due to my self esteem issues.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Kput said:


> MO1, If this happens again let it play out and see if she reaches a point of instigating sex, if she does it's a matter of timing, if she continues to avoid sex then you have an issue which you need to discuss with her preferably the next day when feelings are not running so high.
> 
> Make sure you get answers to your questions and not the "I don't know" type response.
> 
> Good luck


I think I have it figured out, and the combination of things that happened were just coincidence which I took too far.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> God, I was loving what you were saying, and while your last sentence is true, it was a very rude thing to say. I never said anything about not wanting her, so for you to insinuate as much puts me off the rest of your comment. Having said that, I see your point, and I would like to say that the constant justification is part of my issue with my self worth. I have the negative thoughts and feelings, they are real even if they are unjustified, and I cannot seem to get myself out of the funk when they happen. I have worked hard to stop reacting to these types of stimuli, which is why I started taking time to wait and think about the whole thing, to process it as much as possible, and ask questions before I decide if it is a discussion worth pursuing. The bigger issue with me is that even if I determine that I AM overreacting, I still have difficulty convincing myself fully that I am wrong. Which is one of the reasons I am starting therapy soon.


I was being sarcastic when I said “If you don’t want her.” It’s clear you want her. My point was that she’ll find others who will find her “flaws” to be insignificant, even a positive. Meaning, you could lose her to somebody else really easily. Sorry you didn’t understand that.


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## MarriedOnce1 (2 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> I was being sarcastic when I said “If you don’t want her.” It’s clear you want her. My point was that she’ll find others who will find her “flaws” to be insignificant, even a positive. Meaning, you could lose her to somebody else really easily. Sorry you didn’t understand that.


My mistake, I didn't mean to misinterpret what you were saying. And you're right, I don't want to lose her, either because I can't get my mental state under control or because she is tired of dealing with it.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

Let me throw in my 2 cents:
You seem to have developed self-esteem issues. 
The card game was only a trigger. If you do not have any suspicions on her part (being unhappy with you, maybe even view you low or smthg like this), which can be a trigger in itself, this trigger is on you. 
Take a look back, if possible, when did this start? Was there a trigger of some sort, even a harmless one, like your wife looking at another man at the pool, in the mall or whatever.
Sometimes the minutest of things that your partner does can trigger a buried issue. It is not that bad, it just needs working. Otherwise it becomes bad. 
Maybe you yourself saw, heard or did something to trigger that. If you can find it work it out. Otherwise maybe it would be a good idea to talk to your wife about it. She knows you better than you do yourself, maybe. 

And get rid of the time schedule, ffs. How shall a man maintain an erection on command? How should a woman (a normal woman that is) be ready and willing for sex on command and timeline? 
If you want sex, let her know. Hug her, grope her decently (at first if she doesn't shut you down continue) and wait for a reaction. Respect her boundaries and she highly likely will repect yours. 

As long as your marriage has no other issues (money, trust, too much stress at work, different desires etc. pp.) it should be a solveable problem as long as you include her. 
And don't go for "I don't know." You have to work it out. Otherwise it will destroy you both in the end. 

I like to share something on a more light hearted note, maybe that helps: 
My wife and I are a bit peculiar.
I was always into BDSM. Hard. dom, sub, switch... all of it. Never got the kicks out of vanilla sex before my wife. All my girlfriends before her are still grossed out by me to this day. 
She is a submissive. Like in the real sense. 
Normal woman with selfesteem for the both of us in normal life. 
She even let's me cry at her shoulder when my daytime job is too overwhelming, in real life she is the one Alamo position I can fall back on when the world is cruel. Never a mean or demeaning word from her. Just comfort and peace. 

But in the sack (and in any other sexrelated place) I have to call the shots, all of them. I have to, because this is the one sure thing that fires her up big time. 

When I found out (by accident non the less, but that's another story for sure) it triggered my dom, which I hid so deep inside that 2 years into our relationship I was at the verge of breaking. 
Moody as a little child, outbursts and tears the whole hoobaloo. Manbaby is the word of choice for that period.
And that with a partner that was a closet sub... FML at that point, I guess. 
I certainly was the biggest turnoff ever for her in these 3 months it took to figure us out. 
Worst of all should have known that beforehand given where I met her the first time. But dense me didn't.
We can still laugh about that, by the way. Well, I can. If she laughs she is in for a punishment  Don't know why she will never learn this _mihihihi_.
That was somewhat 30 years ago. Since then she had given in to herself completely.
Hard boundaries though. 

In sex-play I command. From BJ to weird things, she begs. In normal sex we are equal. Which hasn't worked for a long while now. 
I am her only dom (most of the time) and she is my one and only submissive sweetheart (all the time). 

And before Snowbum chimes in (SCNR this one, Snow, please don't take offence)
We have safewords and hard boundaries in play. No command to her to be shared with other men or women at any time unless particularly told so by her up front, stuff like that. The moment she gives into herself she is out and would do it to please me, but afterwards I would be in **** deeper than the Mariana Trench.
She is so used to be commanded in all things sex that it takes a while for her to feel "the wrong" in it at that particular moment. 
Safewords are to be obeyed at any time and immediately. 

By the way
Yes, we have children. Never understood where they came from.  Has something to do with bees and flowers and big enough paddle I guess.
Hope fetishes are not inherited, that would make for quite odd breakfast table talks... 

So that's it

And that's what you two have to do:
Find the initial trigger. Work on it. 
Find your 'game' whatever that might be. 

Hope that helps. And sorry for telling about me, but I think our places are relateable to a certain extend.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I think you've been given some good advice, OP. I'd also add to replace that negative internal voice (''she must want to play cards more than she wants to have sex with me'') with something else. I have a feeling if you start working on that part of your mindset, you won't take things so personally, and you'll be able to go with the flow a bit better.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> I think you've been given some good advice, OP. I'd also add to replace that negative internal voice (''she must want to play cards more than she wants to have sex with me'') with something else. I have a feeling if you start working on that part of your mindset, you won't take things so personally, and you'll be able to go with the flow a bit better.


Well, here's the thing, what if in that moment she did want to play cards more than have sex?

That should be okay. She should be allowed that without it being a big emotional scene for her husband.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Well, here's the thing, what if in that moment she did want to play cards more than have sex?
> 
> That should be okay. She should be allowed that without it being a big emotional scene for her husband.


Of course - either way, the leap to thinking that he's not desired by his wife, is an over-the-top reaction.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I didn't once say there was anything wrong with it. These kinds of comments let me know you are cherry picking the thread. Read all available information before making statements please. If you do, you will see that the problem wasn't that she wanted to play cards, it was that she wasn't clear on what she actually wanted. I didn't tell her how she made me feel, and I waited until today to give myself time to think and ask questions here to see if I had a valid complaint.


I thoroughly read everything you wrote before I made my comments. You harangued your wife to stop playing cards and have sex. I can only imagine how that looks to your wife and it's not good. You need to use a little respect with her and understand that it's not just about your needs and what you want and that she has her own wants and needs that are never going to completely line up with yours and that there is no obligation on her part to acquiesce to your needs and place them over her own. You are very self-centered in that regard in a immature way.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> Ah, exactly! You made my point for me. She didn't want me more than cards, yet she didn't make a choice. She could have said she wanted to play cards instead, which could have been fine. She told me she wanted to have sex while acting like she wanted to play cards, and the confusion caused some issues for me due to my own self esteem issues.


Because you were making a big drama about the whole thing. She knows better than anyone that you don't like to hear the little truths and not get your way.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I have a hard time believing that you made this comment after reading all of the other posts, so I'll give you a pass for your ignorance. The comment I made referenced some of the previous comments, which is what you should read.


That's because you only want to hear what you want to hear and you only want to do what you want to do when you want to do it and don't really respect other people's opinions. I read everything and I stand by everything.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

*Deidre* said:


> Agree with others. Sex is one of those things imo that shouldn’t be part of an “itinerary.” My husband and I have spontaneous sex (my husband mainly initiates but it’s not planned) and to me, if we have to start planning for it, it might not be as fun for us. It would feel bad to me, if we have to start adding it to a schedule.
> 
> Maybe that’s how your wife feels - this pressure to have sex on cue and that it’s mainly to boost your self esteem is somewhat of a turn off. Women can tell if a man is insecure.
> 
> ...


Many sex therapists will tell you you are wrong; they advocate for scheduled sex. It has worked for my wife and I for many years as well as millions of others. It gives us a chance to to think about it all day and gets me in the mood, otherwise, I don't think about it that much. Sure, we have spontaneous sex as well, but we both get excited on our days and will flirt with each other the whole day to lead up. Now, if one spouse is adverse to sex itself, then I can imagine how that would be a form of torture knowing you have to do it that night. We are far from that.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I would like to say, in all seriousness, that you are correct. I've mentioned it previously, but the reason I am going to start therapy is because I know I have issues that pertain to my own sense of self worth. When I was a child I didn't get any attention at home, even though I was a high achiever at school. But, I was a high achiever at school because they gave me attention. I have been attention seeking for most of my life in one way or another, and it has been detrimental to my relationships and my own mental health. I can see when she is trying, but I have a negative attitude and when things don't go according to plan I always get so down. When all of this happened and she asked if she did anything wrong, I told her that she didn't, and my mentality is a slippery slope. One comment or lack of action that I assume should happen and I start getting these little snowflakes of doubt. "She wants cards more than me" falls from the sky, and then another negative snowflake, and then another, and before I know it I'm covered by a blizzard. I have a tendency for catastrophizing, so when I researched what to do about it, the only clear answer was to not fight it, but let the thoughts come and try to rationalize them. I am rational generally, but when it has anything to do with my self esteem I always end up feeling worse, no matter what I do.





MarriedOnce1 said:


> I feel like I've repeated myself a million times, but the problem wasn't necessarily with her, but with her reaction. She chose to play cards over having sex with me, even though she had been telling me how much she was looking forward to our weekend escapades. I took the wrong approach while trying to get her into the bedroom, and instead gave her ways out of it instead of taking the lead. When she chose cards, I took a big hit to my ego, and my own insecurities and self esteem came into play heavily. Because of my previous work on trying to better myself, I took the time to wait it out and think about it, plus get on this forum to start a thread and get some opinions. While some of them were rude and disingenuous, some have been very helpful and I have been trying to find other points of view besides my own, which I can't trust due to my self esteem issues.


OP you've been hit by a lot of 2x4's in this thread, including mine I suppose, so I just wanted to say I hear you re your two posts above.

Keep participating, I'm glad to see you're sifting through for the useful feedback.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Interestingly, few have commented on this aspect: OP, strikingly handsome young guy grows used to admiration / has attention seeking habits, but now grows older and can no longer rely on that for his sense of self worth.

I'm not being snarky when I say this OP, most men are not so fortunate. Most guys have other primary means of obtaining validation and admiration. You gotta start looking into those as you age out of the phase #1 beautiful kid part of your life. Your therapist will help here no doubt.

Seems you lucked out in the looks department and had a good run with it as a single man, you lucky dog. Now you've gotta move on and grow into phase #2.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Should have been strip poker, not rummy.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You sound needy and reliant upon sex for validation of your worth.


Co-dependant


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> I would like to say, in all seriousness, that you are correct. I've mentioned it previously, but the reason I am going to start therapy is because I know I have issues that pertain to my own sense of self worth. When I was a child I didn't get any attention at home, even though I was a high achiever at school. But, I was a high achiever at school because they gave me attention. I have been attention seeking for most of my life in one way or another, and it has been detrimental to my relationships and my own mental health. I can see when she is trying, but I have a negative attitude and when things don't go according to plan I always get so down. When all of this happened and she asked if she did anything wrong, I told her that she didn't, and my mentality is a slippery slope. One comment or lack of action that I assume should happen and I start getting these little snowflakes of doubt. "She wants cards more than me" falls from the sky, and then another negative snowflake, and then another, and before I know it I'm covered by a blizzard. I have a tendency for catastrophizing, so when I researched what to do about it, the only clear answer was to not fight it, but let the thoughts come and try to rationalize them. I am rational generally, but when it has anything to do with my self esteem I always end up feeling worse, no matter what I do.


You had opportunity to really communicate, but didn't. I found out years ago, the most important thing is communication, not just talking at each other or just bumping your gums, but to understand what is being spoken. Good, bad & ugly. 

I am completely truthful with my wife, 
If she asks something about clothes, I tell her what I think. I don't say, "You look good" when I do not like what she has on. Or if she does something that upsets me, I tell her. How can she stop doing it if she does not know. 
I request the same from her also.

You should have told her when she asked.

I used to bottle up all the emotion I felt against things my wife did/said during 1st half of marriage. I had a dam trying to hold back the resentment I had toward her.

Sex is very much emotional for me. At the end of the day, she would be very vocal about being tired, headache, stressed.......I was like, ok I hear you loud and clear. To me it was her saying, "don't even initiated or you will be turned down" so I just saw it as a denial.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MarriedOnce1 said:


> The problem is she never did change her mind. She acted like she wanted to continue playing cards while actively telling me she wanted to have sex. It was confusing, and it appeared that she wanted to continue the card game, which I was willing to do, if she had just said that to begin with. Instead, she kept alluding to sex while never once stopping the game.


I don't know, let me guess.

She wanted you to take the cards from her hands, and carry her to the bed.

She wanted to be taken, not wishing for that typical indecision,whining or pouting.
No passive crap wanted.

I was not there but I could read the signs, just from you words, those coy behaviors she displayed.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Mybabysgotit said:


> Many sex therapists will tell you you are wrong; they advocate for scheduled sex. It has worked for my wife and I for many years as well as millions of others. It gives us a chance to to think about it all day and gets me in the mood, otherwise, I don't think about it that much. Sure, we have spontaneous sex as well, but we both get excited on our days and will flirt with each other the whole day to lead up. Now, if one spouse is adverse to sex itself, then I can imagine how that would be a form of torture knowing you have to do it that night. We are far from that.


When a couple is dating, they know they are going out Friday night and will very likely have sex. It doesn’t ruin it for them, does it?


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

The OP was a bit TLDR for my taste. There was a time when I would've loved to be seen as the hot guy and wondered why women didn't notice me more. Well, sometimes your perception of yourself doesn't match reality. I was overweight and while I thought I put on a nice appearance and had a clean, professional look, the extra weight showed. 

I had a health scare at age 37 and that inspired me to lose the weight. I will be 50 next year and have kept the weight off. I'm sure I get noticed here and there, but I'm not concerned about that. I lost the weight for my own personal satisfaction. Wife is very happy with the result, but I did this for me.


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